Persuasion

Thanks for the info Lisa. I've been trying to find when Persuasion would be airing for months.

Lisa, what's the deal with your brother?

Where do I begin? He has always been an instigator and a person who thrives on controversy and going against the grain. We live in Montreal but he's a Bruin and Met fan much to my chagrin. What can I say? He loves to torment me! His opinions on P&P are quite different from mine even though his are based solely from the television series. He hasn't read the book and is unlikely to do so but our discussions are lively and interesting. Please do not cast me out because of my tainted association with him! After all, a little spice adds flavour to the sauce.

Lisa: "Please do not cast me out because of my tainted association with him!" Have no fear, Lisa, you shall not be cut off! We all have embarrasing relations, why, even our beloved heroine had one or, even four herself! But fortunately, our irritating kin do not have access to The Spring, yours, unfortunately, does. ;-)

I think he deserves a chance, Lisa. You will help him "get" our particular polite flavor of contentiousness, though, right? Help us out.

I'll try my best but he has a strong mind of his own and he rarely ever listens to me!

How old is Mr. Mike? I gather he is a. . .young man?

He is 21...I think

I'm sorry I'm a bit lost on this one but did we set any dates for our Pursuasion viewing? I'm still interested in doing it. Anyone else? Mich

I don't think we set dates yet. Maybe a week or so after P&P1 dies? Cheryl, do you wish to organise us?

I believe that Cheryl is planning on doing a massive organization of coordinated viewings and discussions... stay tuned for the forthcoming schedule... :-)

I put together a virtual viewing schedule for Jan and Feb and gave it to Amy to post where she thought best. For those who cannot wait, we will do Nostromo, of course, this next week, then Persuasion on Jan. 19. Full schedule to follow soon...(Amy?)

Cheryl, I did not see that.

oh, dear...I sent it two days ago...I shall send another one off to you directly!

Amy, I just sent off another schedule...let me know if you didn't get it.

Is this a new version of Persuasion or the old BBC one?

Hi, Kim The Amanda Root version is going to be reviewed first,then the BBC version. Look at the Calendar Link. You have to register, no big deal. Nice to see that your back Kim.

I don't have a way of seeing the old BBC version of Persuasion. Only if I buy it, and well guys I'm trying to save for a trip to Florida with the little one. I am in definite need of 80 degree weather and Mickey Mouse. I can rent the Amanda Root version no problemo.

Laura, I have the old version. Call me.

LauraM: "I don't have a way of seeing the old BBC version of Persuasion. Only if I buy it..." Folks, the BBC viewings are different from the general group Virtual Views. Some of our number discovered that we had the old 70's and 80's BBC adaptations and wanted to discuss them so I'm setting up some informal view/discussion dates to run between the main VirtViews. These will be listed on the calendar with the heading "Old BBC..." If you have these videos also, please feel free to join us (there is a topic here called "BBC Videos" or something) but please don't feel obligated to do so or to go buy these videos so as to participate. Some of the bigger chains will have them to rent, but I wouldn't advise laying out a lot of money for these videos that are not really of good quality. I believe the general concensus is that Emma is best of the lot and that some of them are pretty bad! This is mainly just an opportunity for ma y of us to bitch and moan and compare them to the newer, and many feel, more enjoyable adaptations. And also just because we have to wallow in our JA addiction using whatever means at our disposal! ;-) Did I scare anyone off? ;-)

Did I scare anyone off? ;-) Not a soul. ;-)

Cheryl: "Did I scare anyone off? ;-)" Myretta: "Not a soul. ;-)" Well, I knewI would not scare you, Myretta! You who have stood toe-to-toe with "the Weasel Woman!" ;-)

I agree with Cheryl on buying some of the old BBC adaptions: I think the old BBC Persuasion is probably the worst of the JA adaptions ... so not buy it! Terrible casting. Similarly Northanger Abbey is slightly more bearable but the actors are somewhat .... irritating.

I saw the Beeb Northanger Abbey & wasn't too impressed. I thought their S&S wasn't bad (the actress who plays Charlotte Lucas in P&P1 is Elinore).

VirtView Discussion of Persuasion begins Sunday, January 19 Use this topic to discuss Amanda Root Persuasion.

I can't stand Mary Musgrove. Too unkind

Amy, when I click your hypertext, a sweet but rather empty little square with Netscape N and diminish, make larger or close options. Was this your intension? Teasing woman!

It was saved in M-S *.wav format. I've changed it now. Maybe it will work. Sorry for the play. I will take my new sound play to austentest.

Madame Directoire? Look what I saw in chat this morning? From: eva at 1/19/97 11:02 AM so when is the chat on Persuasion??? Should we schedule something, do you think?

The only part that I wasn't clear on was that Mr.Elliot and Mrs. Clay ran off together in the book. I haven only read Persusaion once I missed that entire part(or didn't recall) it does come near the end of the book. Between computer info, JA info and everyday family obligations it can be a little much.;-)

Eva to cute or what,Amy LOL Got to check it out.

Amy, LOL re: your "Too Unkind"! I'm with you, I also can't stand Mary Musgrove. Wanted to strangle her even just from reading the book!;-)

Eizabeth should have been more handsome, if you go by the book; it doesn't affect the plot though. I thought Sir Elliot very well played; horribly funny and horrible...

I like the actress who plays Elizabeth when she plays sweet roles. Like in Maurice.

A beautiful movie from a beautiful book. I loved the part where Anne first goes to stay w/ Mary & Charles, and everyone confides in Anne (w/o asking if she has any difficulties, of course).

I really like this version of Persuasion...Amanda Root's eyes are so expressive, I felt so much for her and her struggles to maintain her composure around Captain Wentworth, I especially like the way she grips the chair when she sees Frederick for the first time after all those years! I know the *gasp* public kiss at the end has been a point of controversy, but I do like it very much...how it is all done in slow motion, savoring each moment...the hand clasp, leaning in, the kiss, how she slowly takes his arm afterwards and they turn to walk up the street, completely oblivious to the upheaval all around them. I never considered myself a particularily romantic person (a lewd person, perhaps, but not a sighing, mooning type person...but I suppose the time has come to admit that perhaps I am...sigh I too, hate Mary but shall save that for another post...;-)

"I too, hate Mary. . . ." Yes, Mary is not a likeable character. But Sophie Thompson, the actress who plays her, is super. She played her very much the way Jane Austen wrote her, IMO. [Cheryl, how could anyone ever think you are lewd?! I am sure someone put this idea into your impressionable mind, and you have taken it much too much to heart -- or someplace else, perhaps. ;-)]

]I loved the part where Anne first goes to stay w/ Mary & Charles I also liked the use of a cart to take Anne to Uppercroft after the carriage for the party to Bath, with the bowing tenants lined up (I know Lady Russell took her in the book); it nicely shows Anne's standing with her family.

]Sophie Thompson, the actress who plays her, is super. I too think she gives a very good representation of Mary. I also thought she did a really good job as Miss Bates in Emma2.

This adaptation was wonderful. I thought Ciran Hines & Amanda Root did an excellent job bringing the Characters to life. Capt.W indifference to Anne in the beginning broke my heart. The way AE�s family treated her made me SO MAD at times. I found Elizabeth behavior towards Anne much worse than Mary�s. Mary & Elizabeth differ in that Mary is stupid where Elizabeth (in this adaptation) is vicious and down right mean. I�m not defending Mary�s behavior but with a father like Sir Elliot and an older sister like Elizabeth I�m not surprised she turned out the way she did. I have just as much desire to SLAP EE as Miss B. I liked AE very much but there were times I found her willingness to b treated poorly frustrating. How about when, during the �very long walk� Mary told Anne�s to move from her spot on the log so she could sit there. I have to laugh when I think of her trying that with some of you folks. I didn�t like the way the Mr. Elliot subplot was handled. I don�t think you get an accurate picture of what a despicable man Mr.E really was without the addition of what he did to Mrs. Smith. Couple things I found confusing the first time I viewed Why did Mr.E & Mrs. Clay meet secretly? I�m thinking of when Mary & Anne see them in bath from the Musgrove�s room. Why at the end did Mrs. Clay stand up and glare at Mr.E when Capt. W asked for AE hand? Were they trying to imply some sort of conspiracy between the two? The way they had Louisa Musgroves hair always falling in her face & unkept was a nice touch. I thought it highlighted how elegant AE was in character & appearance compared to LM. OOP�s to the film makers for the dress switch on AE scene coming out of Mrs. Smith�s the last time. I'll end here and add more later Mich

Kathleen: [Cheryl, how could anyone ever think you are lewd?! I am sure someone put this idea into your impressionable mind, and you have taken it much too much to heart -- or someplace else, perhaps. ;-)] Kathleen, thank you...I think...????

I really enjoyed the protrayal of Mary. Her brand of offensiveness does not make me cringe as the Bennet family does. She sniffs that she does not "like the sea" when the others are planning the trip to Lyme. she orders dry toast as the others talk of a seaside breakfast. she always says the wrong thing and always thinks she is saying exactly the right thing!

] Her brand of offensiveness does not make me cringe as the Bennet family does. __ It's worse for me. But you are right in making the distinction. I never thought about it, but it is a different kind of cringing. Just as Aunt Norris provokes her own flavor.

Mary has no power - or apparently has none. She cannot do any harm - no one takes her seriously - no one cares much what she says - no one judges Anne by Mary's behavior. People might roll their eyes but that is all. Her demanding to stay at Lyme was the worst thing she did - but it really made no difference. Mrs. Hargrove did all the nursing anyway so Louisa was well taken care of.

I wish I possessed as much forebearance. I let people like Mary get to me.

Amy: I like the actress who plays Elizabeth when she plays sweet roles. Like in Maurice. She was also great in Brideshead Revisited, as Cordelia. I agree with Donna and Mich that the Mrs. Clay/Mr. Eliot connection wasn't clear in the movie. Even in the book, it is a little odd that Mr. Eliot somehow thought he could keep her away from Sir Eliot. But really, I love this movie so much. I like the way everyone looks a little bit scruffy---Capt. Wentworth looks like he could use a dip in a big brass tub (now, why didn't the screenwriter think of that...) I like the way the faces were not Hollywood-beautiful, but really interesting. Louisa Musgrove had such a lovely fresh face.

Jane: I like the way everyone looks a little bit scruffy Yes, Jane, these were real people, I liked that!

Amy: It was saved in M-S *.wav format. I've changed it now. Maybe it will work. It downloaded but when it attempted to play, a message popped up saying that the sound file was invalid. :-(

Amy: It was saved in M-S *.wav format. I've changed it now. Maybe it will work. It downloaded but when it attempted to play, a message popped up saying that the sound file was invalid. :-(

It seemed that in the film, Elizabeth was almost the mistress and Anne some kind of lowly servant. I too loved Amanda Root's portrayal -- it was exactly right. If they had cast some glamour babe with tons of makeup, it would have ruined the whole story.

] Even in the book, it is a little odd that Mr. Eliot somehow thought he could keep her away from Sir Eliot. It has been suggested that this, and a few other loose ends in the book are the result of JA finishing it in a hurry, because her advancing illness prevented her from 'polishing' it any further. JA seems to have worked by completing a draft, then going over it, expanding it and refining it several times; she may not have had time to do this with Persuasion (it is much shorter than her other 'mature' novels).

I really enjoyed this from start to finish. I must admit, however, that I become so immersed in the timeframe that when I realized that they were going to kiss - and in front of the whole town - I audibly gasped in horror. Certainly Anne Elliot had better breeding than that! Other than that, I quite enjoyed the entire movie, and thought that the minor changes they had to make because of time restrictions were most appropriate.

Kaff in Persuasion when would they have been able to kiss? Between that meeting and the evening party they wouldn't have kissed at all like in Sense and Sensiblity. They would have had to make the movie longer.

Well, having the kiss was kind of a Hollywood payoff - can't have a movie where you don't see the kiss! I would've preferred it if they had postponed it until the last scene, on the ship. For me, losing the kiss would have added to the realism without detracting from the romance.

] they were going to kiss - and in front of the whole town - I audibly gasped in horror. the kiss didn't bother me so much; one could imagine that the circus had distracted people and given them virtual privacy; and besides, the kiss was fairly restrained. The thing that did bother me was Wentworth's public announcement of their enegagement at the dinner party; most improper - he should have asked for Sir Walter's consent in private, and then they would have told their friends quietly, with a general announcement in the socieety papers. Blurtin it out at the dinner like that would have been improper and vulgar, I don't' think Wentworth would have behaved in such a way.

After reading the book, many things were clearer to me. There are scenes in the movie that are not in the book, and just like in P&P, there is more to the story in the end, that this movie skips over. For instance, the book explains that after they are married, Wentworth assists Mrs. Smith in acquiring the lost property belonging to her husband and thereby improves her standard of living. Anne and Wentworth also have a definite 'heart to heart' in a park after she reads his letter and meets him outside the building. I really like this movie but after reading the book, the way they ended it became a disappointment.

Some disconnected thoughts.... 1. Captain Wentworth is my kind of hero and Sophy Croft's life is so like mine it's unreal.Just wish I could afford to rent Kellynch. 2. Watched with my husband, who has never read the book, and got no build-up from me beforehand. His comments: "Boy, he must really be in love if he's still mad at her after seven years!" "Is Sir Walter sleeping with that other woman?" " Is he supposed to be a closet Gay?" Maybe I should make him read Austen-L 3. Best Actress Award should be shared by Amanda Root, Fiona Shaw, and Sophie Thompson. 4. I gotta buy it.

I love Mrs Croft in this film, too. When she is talking about the places she has been and the times she was frightened? So sweet.

I, too, loved this adaptation. It is very true to the book until the end. In less than 30 additional minutes, they could have told the story of Mrs. Smith's relationship with Mr. Elliot and explained the Mr. Elliot/Mrs. Clay situation; oh, well! Mary Musgrove is a most annoying, selfish, self-centered character. I wanted to slap her several times. But, I loved Sophie Thompson's excellent portrayal. I had not visualized Elizabeth Elliot as being quite as mean and nasty as she was portrayed (Phoebe Nicholls ??). I was a little bothered by the public kiss; more bothered by Captain Wentworth's public request for Anne's hand. Was most bothered by the voice-over of the letter. I wish that they had used Captain Wentworth's voice for the entire letter (which was relatively short). Some of the words were difficult to make out during the voice transitions. And, that letter was sooooo powerful; I really regret losing a single syllable. Linda

That letter was KILLER. I think it's one of the most powerful things Austen wrote. Anna - I too recall reading that JA wasn't able to polish PERSUASION fully due to her illness.

Linda and Amy2, I whole heartedly agree with you regarding the letter. I enjoyed the entire adaptation but the letter sent me into a romantic frenzy. I had to find the novel (somehow I missed JA in high school) and read that letter. It was fantastic! From the first words (You pierce my soul. . .), I just knew this had to be one of the greatest love stories ever. If P&P2 had not come out, this would be my favorite adaptation.

My favorite part of the movie takes place at the concert. It seem as if Wentworth is getting ready to declare hinself when Anne must join her party.He looks so in love!

That concert scene was hot, hot, hot!! And that letter - if Darcy had written in such a fashion to Lizzy after Proposal #1, she might have gone running after him into Rosings!

]Mary has no power - or apparently has none. She cannot do any harm - no one takes her seriously - no one cares much what she says - no one judges Anne by Mary's behavior. Perhaps, but some of Mary's words are really getting to Anne. Words CAN arm sometimes. And how little she might count, it still hurts. ]Her (Mary's) brand of offensiveness does not make me cringe as the Bennet family does. But boy can she make your skin crawl. Isn't there anything worst than someone who hurts another without even knowing it? Reminds me of my mother in law (no kidding) always a disobliging word (think sword in the heart), she's not mean she's just truthfull, and by that can say anything without a conscience. Excellent interpretation from Ms Thompson, what a difference with her role in Emma. And the same to be said of Fiona Shaw, with a endearing portrayal of a loving and intrepid but down to earth wife compare to her very mean and ugly character in Jane Eyre. ]Was most bothered by the voice-over of the letter. I wish that they had used Captain Wentworth's voice for the entire letter (which was relatively short). Some of the words were difficult to make out during the voice transitions. And, that letter was sooooo powerful; I really regret losing a single syllable. So true. ]My favorite part of the movie takes place at the concert. It seem as if Wentworth is getting ready to declare himself when Anne must join her party.He looks so in love! He does misses to totally declare himself by a tenth of a second does he not. But following, that's when I REALLY don't understand Capt. Wentworth's so blunt refusal or should I say his coldness (dare I say disdain toward Anne's) at staying at the concert, especially after Anne's rushing to him and expressing her response " but this is a love song" sentence. That perplexes me most utterly Darcy with that letter, OOOOhhhhh Baby!!!!

I REALLY don't understand Capt. Wentworth's so blunt refusal or should I say his coldness(dare I say disdain toward Anne's) at staying at the concert, especially after Anne's rushing to himand expressing her response " but this is a love song" sentence. That perplexes me most utterly Anne, is this not Wentworth trying to protect himself from being hurt by her again? He is in a public place,watching her pay attention to Mr Elliott,and all the old wounds that he has been ignoring for years have suddenly opened up again. He protects himself with sarcasm at the beginning of the scene"No, I have come for a lecture in Navigation!"and he is about to take himself off again before he loses face and makes a real fool of himself.Now, if there was ahandy window, he could have pretended to stare o t of it, like someone else we know! But he hasno reason to stay, no guests of his own, and the only reason for him being there is torturing him.He is not in the mood to be conciliating!

Sorry, Johanne! Your name got shortened in the passion to defend my favourite Austen Hero!

Love passion, what would we do without it, indeed ;) but still, was rather disturb of his opened coldness, forcefull enough for others to turn around at this spectacle.

Johanne dear, come to Pemberley! :-)

] Johanne dear, come to Pemberley! :-) __ The widow spider

Amy: The widow spider Amy! ;-p I prefer to think of myself as the Pied Piper, no wait, he lured the rats to their deaths. :-( What about a Siren? No...same thing...:-( Oh hell!

Candyman?

I'm rather new at this, so pardon my awkwardness in posting... in response to messageg# 56 of 67f from Mary C. Fox (MaryC) * Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:00) ]the building. I really like this movie but after reading the book, the way they ended it became a disappointment. I've only made it to the middle of the book, but I must admit that I too, was a little disapointed with the ending. Anne and Wentworth, in the final scene, certainly did not look like the same couple who kissed in the streets of Bath, oblivious to the harlequins, dancers, and various costumed circus folk and townspeople around them. On board W's ship. there wasn't even a touch, and as the scene ended AE and W were staring off in different directions. One might speculate, though, that this was because t ey were obliged to exercise more propriety on board Wentworth's ship...(?) Or does the scene imply an unstated understanding between two individuals so much in love and so used to each other that nothing else is needed? What do all of you think?

Or does the scene imply an unstated understanding between two individuals so much in love and so used to each other that nothing else is needed? __ Their smiles and contentment spoke volumes. Of course, this was not in the book either. We never hear if Anne does follow Sophie's life's path. I've had a secret hope that the ship is taking Napolean to St Helena and Anne instructs Nap on the proper blend of prose and poetry for one in exile.

Did anyone see the early BBC production? I thought Anne looked as if she was in her 40s! And the only thing that fascinated me about her was the fear that her awful hairdo would tumble... I felt that she was so worried about it, that it made her very careful how she moved! I couldn't see Anne being bothered with creating such a thing. I liked Brian Marshall as Captain Wentworth in that production, but over-all would have to agree with you all that this latest show is the best by far. And that letter - I couldn't help thinking that it was obvious that it was written by a women, knowing what a women would swoon over.

I am going to pick up the BBC version tonight. Johanne: The meanest words in the movie - when Mary says to Anne, "YOU haven't a mother's feelings..."

Mary: you are all right in disliking her so much. But I did enjoy her character in the movie, while in the book I felt her oppressive. Her tacky mouth makes Anne turn away in shame in the book. In the movie, we see less of Anne's feelings when Mary is 'performing' and more of glimmer of amusement in everyone else - and we know Anne is not in anyway part of the object of that amusement. Mary seems to me, as I watch the movie, like someone being officious in a vacuum. Nobody cares. They notice only to smile secretly at one another.

]Johanne: The meanest words in the movie - when Mary says to Anne, "YOU haven't a mother's feelings..." ;) coming from someone who as barely a clue of what it is to be one (bare with me the possibility of some not having the maternal instinct) Resembles something I heard once before (see my previous post for the clue : which implies another woman point of view is simply wrong in her view, TSK TSK) ]They notice only to smile secretly at one another. It's too bad when company has to resort to this, but...on r�colte ce que l'on s�me

Question. If Elizabeth (who was a true viper) was so handsome and she is older than Anne, why is it that no one it says Elizabeth is an old maid. It's not like she has this great personality. Casting the actress who played in the role made it clear why she had no suitors but I don't recall JA mentioning it either. Can someone offer some thoughts?

I think JA made her sufficiently cold and vain, enough to let us imagine her trouble in finding a mate.

I have similar questions about why Miss Bingley was not talked about as an old maid; surely she was older than Lizzy; and was unmarried for about the same reasons as Persuasion's Elizabeth.

About Miss Bingley--maybe it was because she was rich. What was that line from Emma about a single woman always being respectable provided she had money? Of course, that doesn't explain Elizabeth. Maybe it all comes down to the ladies' arrogance--I personally would quail before saying something contemptuous about either Caroline or Elizabeth.

] Miss Bingley was not talked about as an old maid; surely she was older than Lizzy I don't think there's any evidence either way in the book, although it was cast that way in P&P2

I was in the video store tonight and saw a video of PERSUASION that featured a couple on the cover that looked like something from a Harlequin romance novel. I thought that maybe there was a version I didn't know about, so I picked up the box. It was the Amanda Root version!! They used two models who aren't in the movie for the cover of the video! I could only think that anyone who isn't familiar with Austen and rents the video because it looks like a bodice-ripper is most certainly going to be disappointed (or else discover a type of romance eminently more satisfying than Harlequins).

I was glad to read of the comments regarding the voiceover of the letter. I found that so distracting when the words are so beautiful. I have the old BBC version and agree that that Anne looked quite a bit older. There was also something "funny" about her (can't explain it any better than that), but otherwise I thought it was very good. As for Amanda Root's portrayal, I had a hard time with it. The book doesn't say Anne is ugly, just that she's lost her bloom (which she gets back at the end). AR did not strike me as somebody who would incite long-term passion. She just wasn't Anne for me.

'AR did not strike me as somebody who would incite long-term passion.' Ah comeon, Susan. She wasn't THAT bad! And by the end she was kinda cute. (Maybe he liked her for her personality. LOL.) Now in the BBC version, SHE was ugly. My little niece keep saying, "EEEWWWWW, look at her hair." What bothered me even more about her appearance was her mouth. There is just something not right. But then at least in the BBC version, Frederick in a hound dog as well. Neither one of them had a personality that I found endearing, either. And Kathleen, my video was packaged the same way. Fraudulent advertising to attract those who don't know any better.

This is an article from Time about Persusaion November 1995 Who will see Persusaion , the glorious adapation of Jane Austen's last novel,and say, "I am Anne Elliot"? Any good woman, or man, who feels overqualified and underappreciated. In the bustling society of Bath, Anne (Amanda Root) tends to everyone's needs while shielding her broken heart from the sudden reappearance of the man (Ciaran Hinds) she ever loved. Anne is the sort of sweet spinster whose beguilements are so unnoticed by her family that, should the prince charming ever announce that he wish s to marry Cinderella, her pompus father would exclaim in shock, "What ever for?" Thriftily made, Persuasion manages to be both, panoramic and intimate,satiric and poignant. Its gifted cast includes old friends(Corin Redgrave, Smauel West, Fiona Shaw) and new ones (Hinds,whose intensity suggests a more regal Kevin Costner). But its leading lady is the true treasure. There are faces the camera loves at first sight, like Sandra Bullock's and those the camera learns to love, like Root's. Her beauty is a secret she shares only with the audience. This is a movie that recognizes th luster in kindness, and in which an image of one hand touching another can convey a profound emotional jolt. Persuasion is (ahem)British. It was written and directed by (sigh) men-Nick Dear and Rodger Michell. Nobody's saying that the Brits have a lock on domestic drama or that it takes guys to make a superior women's film. Persusaion is simply that one little movie that gets thing done. To perfection. -RC It was titled under "Women of the Year" and subtitled "That Feminine Touch" that is why the reference to "men" making the movie. "Women of the Year" this quote was under this title. They're gaining power in Hollywood and using it to make films that woman-and men-want to see. This also the time when Clueless came out and a few others. I can really appreciate this review now more then ever. Donna.

Re 85 Susan, I must admit, I agree with your comment of Amanda Root whole heartedly. Sorry for her fans, but can help it. Had the same impression, particularly when she looks in the mirror and is suppose to gotten back a bit of her youth/beauty. It did'nt do it for me at all. Also, she's suppose to be the calm pillar of strenghth. I found a rather peek of weakness instead. Or maybe a certain lack of passion disturb my liking it. Emma Thompson's portrayal in S&S was more passionate and she was the rational one. ike you said Susan : did'nt ignite passion and neither had really it. Do not mistake, I very much enjoyed Persuasion but it comes after my preference of (evidently)P&P2 and I must say, (do not be alarm, please) Paltrow's Emma. no offense intended...

I like the Roots/Hinds version of Persuasion better every time I watch it. Three times so far. It has that feeling of real life, real people, 'scruffy' was it. If a girl travels on top of a carriage leaving her home and the wind is blowing, her nose should be red and her hair not all that tidy. And as they are gathered round the fireplace and making plans for the Lyme trip. one girl's hair is not at all wellcombed and someone is warming his/her foot by holding it out near the fire. It feels as if you were actually there in that cottage with them resting after an autumn walk. Found it a bit odd that Anne would actually run after Wentworth at the concert in such an obvious manner that made people turn their heads. And Why Did not Captain W. pretend to forget his gloves as he always did before and come for his umbrella instead. I think gloves are more private, and so suits this occasion better.

And Why Did not Captain W. pretend to forget his gloves as he always did before and come for his umbrella instead. I think gloves are more private, and so suits this occasion better. Maybe CH made a mistake and they couldn't afford a re-take!:-}After all, actors, as well as heroes,are less endearing when they are perfect! It has that feeling of real life, real people, 'scruffy' My sentiments exactly,ma'am!Let's have more like this!

'Do not mistake, I very much enjoyed Persuasion but it comes after my preference of(evidently)P&P2 and I must say, (do not be alarm, please) Paltrow's Emma. no offense intended...' I think this is true, Susan, for many of us - and not just because of the films but the characters themselves. I for one, connect more so with Elizabeth Bennet, that I find all other Jane Austen's heroines falling short. We WANT Anne to have the strenth of character not to have let herself go, or loose her bloom, in the first place, but she didn't have it. I am sorry to pain you but so it is. I have a little trouble initially feeling for a woman that practically cuts herself off from society in regrets over mistakes she may have made, but I am happy that she gets herself together in the end.

] I have a little trouble initially feeling for a woman that practically cuts herself off from society in regrets over mistakes she may have made, __ I wish I did not understand this either, but I do, too well.

Thanks for the insights on Amanda Root. I do plan to watch it again, but must warn you that my good opinion, once lost, is lost forever. I forgot to mention that I loved Ciaran Hinds as Wentworth and agree that the actor in the earlier BBC production was incredibly wimpy. I saw him in Circle of Friends soon after (you can guess who I was really looking for) and liked him very well even though he had such a small role. And thank you, Sharon, for the comment on the BBC's Anne's mouth. That was the "funny" thing I couldn't describe, but you are spot on.

Sharon, regarding your response #90, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I too so related to Elizabeth that all her other heroines fall short but I still do feel for Anne. I don't really think she has cut herself off from society; I think she is taken for granted by her family and has further reason to regret her decision to refuse Fredrick. Typically I would not have been drawn to Root's Anne but I found this adaptation wonderful. And, as Amy2 says, after Wentworth's letter, I melted (I too found the do ble voice over annoying). The depth of character revealed in Anne, Fredrick and the Crofts won me over. I understand how Root's Anne can be seen as weak but I interpreted as woman beaten down by circumstances and just trying to continue on the best she knew how. Her family was quite dreadful so I think her passivity was a coping mechanism like we've deduced Anne de Bourgh's illness to be. Sharon (and others who feel like her) I know I may not be able to convince you but maybe if you watch it a few more times (and of course read the novel to get the true depth of emotion) I believe you will grow to enjoy this adaption. I know I have posted this often but this adaption introduced me to JA and is (to me) second only to P&P2.

'Sharon (and others who feel like her) I know I may not be able to convince you but maybe if you watch it a few more times (and of course read the novel to get the true depth of emotion) I believe you will grow to enjoy this adaption.' Oh, but I absolutely enjoyed this adaptation. I don't feel a need to have a great sympathy with Anne to value some of the points (as long as there is a very good one)of a narrative. There were few enough things that a woman had control over in Austen's day, but how she chose to personally respond to situations was one of them. You have to make you peace with things, and Anne is a good example of what becomes of you when you don't. Yes, we can all understand how and why Anne chose her particular path, b t would that be the answer for us? Should it be? I am a believer in physical manifestaion of the mental condition, to some extent, so all the hullabaloo about Anne's appearance in the films, particulately the Amanda Root version, does not offend nor suprise me. I viewed the film makers representation of Anne as trying to get this point across - 'This is what happens when something eats away at you.' And that is what I pointed out to my young niece.

I also like the Root/Hinds version of Persuasion - the more I watch it the better I like it, except, as everyone has mentioned, the voice over with the letter. Couldn't make out a single word!! Persuasion has long been my second favorite Austen book (after P&P of course) and I think Root's interpretation was right on. I've never thought of her as particularly handsome, and she wasn't; but her eyes did have a lot more sparkle by the end of the film than at the start. I got used to Hinds - when I first saw it in a movie theatre he wasn't my idea of Frederick, but since then he's grown on me very quickly and I now like him very well indeed. His best role though, IMHO, was in Hostages as Brian Keenan. I particularly liked Sophie Thompson - she made Mary as unendurable as she is in the book, and whoever played Mrs. Croft - loved her spunky spirit, general good manners and niceness (bad word) to Anne. Elizabeth was far too ugly to have ever been thought better looking than Anne, or was she only thought that by her father?? When I finish the book again will have to watch the movie yet again!

Please, do not mistake my comments, this is a very good representation of the novel (not counting the little discrepencies like the umbrella). Amanda Roo performance was exact to the nature of Anne's character : you could feel for her struggles and her sense of lost, watching her going against the tide while going on with her life with as much serenity and phylosophy as she could. My comment resides only to comparing it to my own personnality (therefore to elements I prefer), and it's a selfish perspectiv . This film has so many remarkable moments: especially her dialogue with Capt. Harville, while W is writing the most romantic letter in any JA books. It is I believe the most faithfull image of that period and you love this film as well for having taking this avenue of representation. Comparing this with Paltrow's Emma is comparing Apples and Oranges, while both are fruits and come from trees. But you can love them both, and not for the same qualities.

Ann2 ]I like the Roots/Hinds version of Persuasion better every time I watch it. Three times so far. It has that feeling of real life, real people, 'scruffy' I to like the realistic feel to this Persuasion; besides the things Ann2 points out, the way the bottom edges f the cloaks/coats gets dirty when they walk along the muddy lanes, and the way the lawn at Kellynch looked scythed; Pemberly was so manicured. Anne Elliot is second only to Elizabeth Bennet in my estimation, (a purely personal assessment), she doesn't have the fire and joie de vivre that Lizzy has; I thought Amanda Root's portrayal of her excellent. Although there were several changes made for the screen-play the only one that grated on me was the method of Wentworth's announcement at the end (which I won't rehash). I've enjoyed all the recent Jane Austen adaptations, for me Persuasion2 was only second to P&P2.

The realism as you say Anna is in S&S and P&P2.What was the difference in the film they use in each production. Persuasion has a quality(film) that P&P2 doesn't or maybe it is my tape. Yes, I always wondered how,who and what cut the grass.

The realism as you say Anna is in S&S and P&P2.What was the difference in the film they use in each production. Persuasion has a quality(film) that P&P2 doesn't or maybe it is my tape. Yes, I always wondered how,who and what cut the grass.

] Persuasion has a quality(film) that P&P2 doesn't or maybe it is my tape. on my system the film quality is better in P&P2; both are purchased tapes...

I thought Persuasion was exquisite! I have to agree with Caroline that she is my favorite heroine as well. How many of us have been persuaded to do something else, when we know we should have been true to our heart... A beautiful movie.

I just recently saw Persuasion for the first time and was amazed! For me, Amanda Root, was Anne as I imagined her, and by the end of the movie, I began to think her almost pretty. Wentworth did not look as I thought he would, but I got used to that. And Mary was so grating I wanted to slap her-especially when she was going on about staying at Lyme, or playing the piano, or hurting Anne in a thousand small selfish ways. The scene that really got to me, however, was when Anne stayed with the sick child, and they showed the party at the house through a window outside-to me it felt and looked as lonely as Anne must have felt, and it showed her loneliness. I found myself almost hurting for her during the movie. Btw, did anyone else think that Charles looked like a stuffed mouse?

Marsha: Btw, did anyone else think that Charles looked like a stuffed mouse? hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee

Mary was so grating I wanted to slap her. The general consensus, Marsha! Btw, did anyone else think that Charles looked like a stuffed mouse? "Chipmunk cheeks" was how someone referred to him, I believe.

After fiesting at the fair in Charlotte's web, but prettier

I love that Templeton character, Johanne. Did you know Hil make an enormous puppet of him?

I love this adaptation, just like I love this book. I am torn between Persuasion and P&P as my favorite Austen novel. I think Amanda Root is great in this...you feel like she is a real person, like she has lost some of her bloom. And the way she looks in the mirror after Mary repeats Wentworth's comment "he should not have known her"!!! I love how quiet this movie is, no loud obtrusive music (although it is sometimes hard to hear the characters speaking, especially in the beginning). But I agree tota ly with the earlier comments about the voice overs on the letter.....it's such a fabulous part of the book!!! I could watch this over and over just like I could P&P (only in a much shorter time!)!!

My husband and I rented Persuasion this past weekend; I had just finished the book beforehand. I'll admit, it took me a while to get used to the realism in terms of makeup, sets, etc.....I'm rather partial to the "ethereally glowing" sort of heroine acheived by makeup. Still, this production grows on you! I did find, however, that I had to explain certain character relationships to my impatient husband, who had never read the book. I think that the screenplay explains the relationships adequately, but like Lynn, we had trouble hearing some of the beginning exposition and had to really crank the volume on the t.v.

I can hear it now, Tracey. "You must... retrench," Lady Russell said in a soft, calm and carfeul voice. "You must WHAT?" yelled Mr. Tracey.

LOL Amy! Yes, I had to explain "retrench" to my non-Austen friend whom I strong-armed (who, me?) into watching with me. In fact, I finally gave her the remote so she could pause any time she had a question! But once we hit Lyme, she stopped pausing and the "Ooohs" that issued from her lips during The Letter were very nice indeed! Another JA convert-- Mission Accomplished!

Amy - it was more like this: "You must... retrench," Lady Russell said in a soft, calm and carfeul voice. "Is there a war on? Who ARE these people?" - my husband, english major and military history buff. And, to be fair, it took me a minute to figure out that Lady Russell was not talking about plumbing equipment ;-) "Why on earth would the Elliots need a wrench?" I guess we loud American types take longer to adjust to moderate tones........

That's funny, Tracey. Different times and places. Though my 8 year old is getting to like P&P -- he loves Lydia! -- my big guy at 12 finds the guys a "bunch of wusses."

Templeton Amy, my mom (the snowbird) bought Laurence the video (its all new to me, haven't been brought to this tale either). Haven't heard Paul Lynd' voice since the Hollywood Square. How wonderful and creative Hil, a giant size rat :)

wrench and wusses - LOL

Isn't that Charlotte's Web cartoon great, J? I love the music.

Oh Yes Amy, felt like being a child all over again, and it really grows on you, you should see LA trying to sing charlotte's song and she just love it, first on the list these days (and she does not understand the language yet so it says a lot)

and she does not understand the language yet so it says a lot) __ Yes! She just feels it. Neat.

Plumbing, wrench..??!! Now whose piercing the heart here!! hahaha Was there an earlier adaptation to the 1995 Amanda Root's Persuasion? Having only read the book last year so that viewing the video would make sense, I was overwhelmed by the tension between Capt Wentworth and Anne from the kitchen scene and moved to almost tears by the carriage scene which he helps her into, no words needed - just body language and understanding for each other!! That sideward glance too, so believable!! Sir Walter Elliot was played well too, as the self-centred and vain a man as he was.

Serena: Was there an earlier adaptation to the 1995 Amanda Root's Persuasion? The BBC did a version of it in the 70's. We had a Virtual View of it earlier this year, the topic should still be up if you care to read our reviews. The consensus is that it was pretty bad...stick with amanda Root and Cairan Hinds! ;-)

A family friend purchased the 1995 version, hated it, and so gave it to me without hesitation...can you imagine? What generosity!

I hate the description on the back of the box: "A young couple's stormy romance scandalizes English society in this acclaimed adaptation..." No it doesn't! Society barely pays any attention at all.

How about "flirtatious fun"? I didn't catch that...

kali, you are lucky indeed!

I have this 1965 paperback edition of Persuasion with a gothic horror front cover and quotes on the back cover from Henry's teasing tale of terror to Catherine as they drive to the abby.

I think Henry has that NA cover scanned in.

Persuasion a gothic tale of horror? I suppose it is all in how you look at it ;-)

Katy, is this it? -- http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/nhabgoth.jpg http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/nhabgoth.html