Sickly and Cross
Topic 25 · 22 responses · archived october 2000
~Amy
Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (22:25)
seed
Jennifer wants to talk about Anne de Bourgh. Here are the messages so far from the Propose Threads thread:
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Topic 6 of 102 [austen]: Propose new threads here
Response 26 of 29: winter (winter) * Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (04:28) * 9 lines
Sorry to interrupt a thread, but here's a possible topic:
It's hard NOT to notice Anne deBourgh's sickly complexion, though she
appeared in no more than 4 scenes (carriage, first visit to Rosings, Fitzwilliam and Co. visit their aunt, Lizzie's last visit to Rosings). Here's my observation... Did it ever occur to anyone else out there that perhaps she was
so sickly was because of some possible in-breeding within her family? I mean, take a look at Lady catherine's plan of action. Between first-cousins is enough to do some genetic damage to a child. Though (as Caroline Bingley would say)I'm not sure of the particulars, in-breeding can result in serious physical defects, illnesses, etc... (isn't that how the King died in "Lady Jane"?)
just a thought...
Jennifer
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Topic 6 of 102 [austen]: Propose new threads here
Response 27 of 29: Ann (Ann) * Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (12:41) * 1 lines
My theory on Anne de Bourgh is that her sickness is a form of teenage rebellion against Lady C. If you want to rebel against an extremely strong personality, perhaps you would resort to feigned weakness. Anne's illness must have driven Lady C. crazy!
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Topic 6 of 102 [austen]: Propose new threads here
Response 29 of 29: winter (winter) * Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (22:12) * 2 lines
Sickeness as a sign of rebellion? i guess in those days, women had no other form of rebellion other than resorting to illness (intentional or not). but Lady C didn't seem very much annoyed. She carried on as if Anne and Darcy WERE developing some attachment toward one another.
~Arnessa
Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:46)
#1
I agree completely Ann. Anne de Bourgh's sickness could probably be miraculously cured by removing her from Rosings.
~Ann2
Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:47)
#2
I recollect that in P&P1, when Lizzy is leaving Rosings the last time, Anne
de Bourgh takes farewell as if she shall really miss Lizzy. She must have
enjoyed to watch someone young and female who could stand up to Lady Cath.
Maybe wishing she would be as brave herself.Poor girl...
~IF
Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (11:00)
#3
I always had this thought that Lady C liked Lizzy, in a strange way of course and the reason she liked her was because Lady C saw in Lizzy what she wanted Anne to be like.Any thoughts?
~Donna
Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (12:00)
#4
Irene I do think she was getting use to having Lizzie around for deversfied converstation but she would never be her friend. She felt Lizzies was beneath her.She never has a good word for anyone except her "Apothecary". Thats because she has all the answers. The other thing about Anne that could be true L.C. definitly was jealous of Lizzie.
~amy2
Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (16:47)
#5
Well, Lady C. liked Lizzy well enough to bid her stay "a month complete" and travel to London with her in the barouche (sp?) box. I also feel that Ann was never really sick -- being "sickly" seemed her way of not having to do anything, from learning to play the piano to talking to possible suitors. Kind of like the Victorian women and their "headaches."
~redfive
Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (13:35)
#6
A couple of observations: In the book, Ann de Bourgh is described as having little to say for herself apart from talking in a low voice to her companion, Mrs Jenkinson. In the game of quadrille after the first dinner at Rosings, she utters "scarcely a syllable that was not related to the game" and the table of four is described as "superlatively stupid" - what a wonderfully dismissive line!
In the film P&P0, Lady C, having failed to get Lizzie's agreement to refuse to marry Darcy, commends Lizzie to Darcy ("She's right for you") and Darcy tells Lizzie "You evidently confirmed the good opinion she formed of you at Rosings" - talk about poetic licence on the part of the adaptor (none other than Aldous Huxley!) However, the book is quite definitive about Lady C's opinion as it states that after Darcy writes to tell her of the forthcoming marriage she "gave way to all the genuine frankness of he
character, in her reply .... she sent him language so very abusive, expecially of Elizabeth, that for some time all intercourse was at an end."
~amy2
Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (16:54)
#7
It's a little odd in a way, because Lady Catherine's first impression of Elizabeth (in P&P2) is that she's a "very pretty, genteel sort of girl." She likes her well enough to offer to transport her to London in the barouche box, but I guess not well enough to be a daughter-in-law. I somehow feel that beneath all the contempt, Lady C. actually respects Elizabeth for speaking her mind, in the same way that Darcy does. Perhaps that's why (in the book) she eventually reconciles herself to the match.
~churchh
Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (06:42)
#8
In the film, why does Anne de Bourgh accompany Lady Catherine in the carriage when she goes to Longbourne??
~Amy
Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (06:54)
#9
Henry, I wasn't sure you had ever even seen P&P2.
~jwinsor
Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (07:20)
#10
"why does Anne de Bourgh accompany Lady Catherine'
Perhaps Lady C. intends (after getting Lizzie to renounce any claim on Darcy) to trot her directly over to Darcy's home and insist on having their engagement formalized?
~Donna
Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (08:34)
#11
She doesn't have anything better to do.
~kendall
Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (13:31)
#12
"why does Anne de Bourgh accompany Lady Catherine"
So we can see the half-blank, half-disappointed look on her face when momma failed in her first attempt to save the arranged marriage.
~amy2
Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (20:21)
#13
I gathered because Ann's fate was at stake. And it was great seeing the contract between Lizzie -- giving Lady C. what-for at carriage-side -- and her mute, unpleasant daughter. Talk about a difference between Darcy's potential future wives!
~Cheryl
Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (01:35)
#14
Amy2: " Talk about a difference between Darcy's potential future wives!"
Yes, I am sure when he saw them side by side in the same room at Rosings, that there was not the slightest bit of doubt as to which to choose! Poor Ann, she really didn't stand a chance, did she?
~Ann
Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (22:21)
#15
Hey! Careful of your "e"'s. It's Anne not me!
~Cheryl
Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (00:17)
#16
Cheryl: "Poor Ann, she really didn't stand a chance, did she? "
Ann: "Hey! Careful of your "e"'s. It's Anne not me!"
So sorry Ann, I did not mean to impugn your character! And I am sure that you stand a much greater chance with Darcy than the unfortunate Miss Anne de Bourgh did! There, have I placated you? :-)
~Arnessa
Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (00:23)
#17
Maybe Lady C never let Anne out of her sight for too long.
~kendall
Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (00:27)
#18
That is an interesting point. What kind of courtship could Anne D. and Darcy have had with Lady C. oppressing Anne and demanding to be the center of attention at all times?
~elder
Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (15:27)
#19
Can you just imagine how awful a mother-in-law Lady C would make?! I am quite certain that Darcy would never have married Anne De Bourgh, Elizabeth or no Elizabeth. (Her Ladyship would have tried to run both Rosings andPemberley.)
~amy2
Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (22:53)
#20
Ann, we could never confuse you with the sickly and cross Miss de Bourgh! Was Lady C. living in a dream world, BTW? How could she _not_ notice Darcy's complete indifference to her daughter? I don't recall that the two ever spoke a single word during his stay at Rosings (of course, I don't believe she spoke to anyone).
~JohanneD
Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (17:10)
#21
It probably did'nt even matter in Lady C's conception of marriage.
~Amy
Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (11:40)
#22
Moved from dupe topic:
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Topic 105 of 181 [austen]: Sickly and Cross
Response 1 of 5: Arnessa (Arnessa) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:46) * 1 lines
I agree completely Ann. Anne de Bourgh's sickness could probably be miraculously cured by removing her from Rosings.
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Topic 105 of 181 [austen]: Sickly and Cross
Response 2 of 5: Ann Rydberg (Ann2) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:47) * 4 lines
I recollect that in P&P1, when Lizzy is leaving Rosings the last time, Anne
de Bourgh takes farewell as if she shall really miss Lizzy. She must have
enjoyed to watch someone young and female who could stand up to Lady Cath.
Maybe wishing she would be as brave herself.Poor girl...
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Topic 105 of 181 [austen]: Sickly and Cross
Response 3 of 5: Irene Fisher (IF) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (11:00) * 1 lines
I always had this thought that Lady C liked Lizzy, in a strange way of course and the reason she liked her was because Lady C saw in Lizzy what she wanted Anne to be like.Any thoughts?
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Topic 105 of 181 [austen]: Sickly and Cross
Response 4 of 5: Donna (Donna) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (12:00) * 1 lines
Irene I do think she was getting use to having Lizzie around for deversfied converstation but she would never be her friend. She felt Lizzies was beneath her.She never has a good word for anyone except her "Apothecary". Thats because she has all the answers. The other thing about Anne that could be true L.C. definitly was jealous of Lizzie.
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Topic 105 of 181 [austen]: Sickly and Cross
Response 5 of 5: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (16:47) * 1 lines
Well, Lady C. liked Lizzy well enough to bid her stay "a month complete" and travel to London with her in the barouche (sp?) box. I also feel that Ann was never really sick -- being "sickly" seemed her way of not having to do anything, from learning to play the piano to talking to possible suitors. Kind of like the Victorian women and their "headaches."