Wickham: Unprincipled or Unfortunate?
Topic 62 · 23 responses · archived october 2000
~Anna
Wed, Dec 4, 1996 (04:05)
seed
Eric, in a recent post on morality (topic5, post 50), said that Wickham was entirely bad (paraphase). On reflection, I think it's more complicated than that.
From the general community viewpoint Wickham's actions could be considered not only bad but largely malicious, but, considered from his point of view, there are some justifications for his behaviour, at least until his post-nuptial visit to Longbourn. He could see it this way;
he is much the same age as Darcy, was apparently brought up and educated with Darcy, but has to go out and earn his living, dependent on pleasing others, whereas Darcy gets Pemberly dropped in his lap.
He tried hard at law (I'm guessing at Wickham's thoughts here, I don't believe it myself), and failed through no fault of his own. Three thousand pounds is as nothing to Darcy; Darcy senior had intended Wickham to have the Kimpton living, Darcy had no other candidates and Wickham knew the people; it was pure malice for Darcy to refuse to bestow it on Darcy.
Georgiana is lonely and friendless and Wickham has always been fond of her; what could be more natural that they should wish to marry? Why should such sordid details as settlements and licenses be allowed to come between them?
Given all the above I think it likely that Wickham believed the story he told Elizabeth early in their aquaitance. Then it is implied that Lydia volunteers for the elopement - he doesn't have to persuade her, and why should he; if she's like that, she's going to fall to someone sooner or later, why shouldn't he have some company...
However I find it hard to believe that any amount of front or self-deception could have made him believe himself to be the willing and welcome husband he acted at Longbourn.
So I wonder, how far Wickham was intentionally 'bad' and how much of his behaviour arose from weakness of will and character and self-delusion?
any opinions?
~Anna
Wed, Dec 4, 1996 (04:23)
#1
Oops - typo;
he doesn't have to persuade her, and why should he
above should have read
he doesn't have to persuade her, and why should he refuse her
~geekman
Wed, Dec 4, 1996 (06:58)
#2
Wickham is probably just a typical male. He's never really sure of where he is going except for the smell of money and the trail that leads, i.e. witness his behaviour with Georgiana and Miss King. He is both unprincipled and unfortunate to some degree, but his actions are his alone. Apart from the elder Mr Darcy and Darcy to some extent, he chooses to wander the lower road. Perhaps therefore he does possess a weakness of character easily exploited by others such as Lydia.
~Linda409
Wed, Dec 4, 1996 (09:25)
#3
I always wondered why Wickham accepted only 3000 pounds in lieu of the "valuable family living". 3000 pounds would only yield 150 pounds/annum; that doesn't seem so "valuable" to me. In P&P2, Darcy writes that Wickham requested and was granted (may not be the exact words) the 3000 pounds. JA says, "He resigned all claim to asssistance in the church, were it possible that he could ever be in a situation to receive it, and accepted in return three thousand pounds."
Was Darcy a shrewd negotiator? Were Wickham's abilities little? Was Wickham, at that time, in a desparate financial dilemma, therefore willing to take whatever he could get?
] it was pure malice for Darcy to refuse to bestow it ...
I agree, that it might seem so from Wickham's perspective, however, Wickham would have been a terrible clergyman since he had a very weak character and didn't seem to have much understanding of right and wrong. Darcy was completely right in refusing Wickham the living, but I wonder if he couldn't have given a larger pecuniary advantage. Although Wickham would have quickly wasted away whatever the amount might have been.
Linda
~Anneother
Wed, Dec 4, 1996 (14:58)
#4
Could the way he was brought up by Darcy's father have encouraged him in the belief that the world owed him a living? He sees everything only as it affects him. In the book, after he has frittered away the three thousand pounds, he writes a second letter to Darcy, after the death of the incumbent, expecting Darcy to 'present him to the living in question', reminding him that it had been the wish of Darcy's revered father.
~Saman
Wed, Dec 4, 1996 (17:43)
#5
Re Wickham accepting 3000 pounds - he was in the habit of getting himself to get into debt - perhaps 3000 pounds would have seemed like enough money to get rid of the debts and have a little left over. He didn't seem like the kind of person with much foresight - the terms on which he accepted the Lydia deal weren't going to give him much to live on beyond the near future.
~elder
Wed, Dec 4, 1996 (20:10)
#6
Weak, unprincipled, or just naturally bad. What a fine set of adjectives to choose from! I do not believe anyone is naturally bad. Wickham may have been badly raised, but his actions are his alone. Maybe he had a gambling addiction, and maybe he was also addicted to seducing young women (even those who were not very wealthy), but he still had free will. He is not a nice man, not a moral man, and yet he still ends up pretty well (debts paid, commissions purchased, etc.). I remember we discussed the p
nishment of being married to Lydia, but I imagine that he (like Charlotte Lucas) often managed to forget his spouse!
kathleen
~MaryC
Thu, Dec 5, 1996 (00:17)
#7
Can any of you picture a man like Wickham as the pastor of your church? Not being a student of history, perhaps standards for clergy weren't as high then. After all, we also have Mr. Collins to puzzle over in the same context. Can any of you picture Mr. Collins as your pastor?
~Anna
Thu, Dec 5, 1996 (00:33)
#8
Ian ] Wickham is probably just a typical male.
arguably you'd know better than I do, but in my opinion the personality difference between the sexes has been grossly exagerated, if there is a consistent difference at all. Neither sex has a monopoly on weakness or malice, but in my experience extreme examples are rare in both sexes.
Anneother ] Could the way he was brought up by Darcy's father have encouraged him in the belief that the world owed him a living?
I think Wickham not only does believe that the world owes him a living, but that it should be a good living, and that his upbringing contributed to that view. I don't think that excuses his behaviour, but the background detail we can glean from the text shows us how Wickham may have become what he was.
To some degree I've been playing devil's advocate here - I agree with Kathleen; whatever your upbringing, the time comes when you have to take responsibility for yourself, but I have known people that think a 'bad' childhood excuses anything up to and including murder.
Kathleen ] I remember we discussed the punishment of being married to Lydia, but I imagine that he (like Charlotte Lucas) often managed to forget his spouse!
but what about the punishment of being married to Wickham; do you think Lydia ever managed to forget her spouse?
~Saman
Thu, Dec 5, 1996 (12:50)
#9
This thread just reminded me of something so I went running to my copy of the book, and in Darcy's letter to Elizabeth, he says:
"My father supported him at school, and afterwards at Cambridge; - most important assistance, as his own father, always poor from the extravagance of his wife, ..."
Maybe it was genetic!
~Anna
Thu, Dec 5, 1996 (15:46)
#10
Saman ] "My father supported him at school, and afterwards at Cambridge; - most important assistance, as his own father, always poor
from the extravagance of his wife, ..."
Maybe it was genetic!
but apparently not sex-linked...
~elder
Thu, Dec 5, 1996 (18:55)
#11
Anna] but what about the punishment of being married to Wickham; do you think Lydia ever managed to forget her spouse?
Indeed, I think Wickham forgot Lydia as often as he could. JA tells us that Lydia actually visited at Pemberley when her husband had gone to Bath (and London?) to enjoy himself.
I imagine that after the "passion" was spent, Wickham tried to ignore Lydia unless he wanted her to ask her rich sisters for assistance. Otherwise, he may have spent his time flattering other ladies and trying to make his fortune wherever he could.
~churchh
Thu, Dec 5, 1996 (19:26)
#12
I enjoyed reading you all's comments... I take it we've come down on the "unprincipled" side?
~Donna
Thu, Dec 5, 1996 (19:33)
#13
Poor Adrian Lukis. Do we know anything else about him other then some of his movies/tv projects? He reminds me a little of George Harrison {who I like very much}in the pic.in Making of P&P book.
~Anna
Thu, Dec 5, 1996 (19:53)
#14
HC ] I take it we've come down on the "unprincipled" side?
how about both unprincipled and spineless ?
~kendall
Thu, Dec 5, 1996 (21:09)
#15
...I always wondered why Wickham accepted only 3000 pounds in lieu of the "valuable family living".
I have wondered about that also. But Eliz. said it was a considerable sum before she decided to belive Darcy's version of the story. There are also references to "selling" livings in S&S (John Dashwood speculates on how much Col. Brandon could have gotten for the living he gave Edward) and in MP (sir Thomas sells Edmund's living to raise money to pay tom's debts). I have taken all that to mean that the 'price' of a living was well established and that Darcy and Wickham were bargaining with an establish
d "blue book value".
~churchh
Fri, Dec 6, 1996 (08:49)
#16
Yes, John Dashwood says that the right to next presentations of Col. Brandon's living, with an income of 200 pounds a year, could be sold for 1400 pounds...
~Hilary
Fri, Dec 6, 1996 (18:39)
#17
Anna, I don't think W is entirely bad either. But I do think he knows what he is doing is wrong most of the time. When he first meets Elizabeth he is fairly careful to sus out what she thinks of Darcy, before spinning his own story about him. He must be aware that his actions with young ladies can bring their downfall. His slick manners and ability to say all the right things indicate that he knows what is expected of a gentleman. He is spineless and unprincipled, and above all, as Lizzie notes while gett
ng into the carriage at Lambton, he is selfish and capable only of doing what is in his own interests.
~Hilary
Fri, Dec 6, 1996 (18:40)
#18
Oh, and I meant to add that I like what you said in reply to Ian.
~Anna
Fri, Dec 6, 1996 (22:25)
#19
Hilary ] But I do think he knows what he is doing is wrong most of the time.
I never doubted that until recently, as a result of watching P&P2. I know may people found Wickham slimy from the start, but I think he does a good imitation of charm and 'pleasing softness' until his post-nuptial visit to Longbourn. One of the people I work with repeatedly distorts the truth in a way similar to Wickham in his first conversation with Lizzy, and is often very persuasive, I think in part because he believes his own story - like a very good saleman.
This got me thinking about Wickham, and how much insight he had. Eventually I've come down on the side of unprincipled and invertebrate rather than intentionally evil.
~elder
Fri, Dec 6, 1996 (22:58)
#20
](from HC): John Dashwood says that the right to next presentations of Col. Brandon's living, with an income of 200 pounds a year, could be sold for 1400 pounds...
If my arithmetic is correct, that 1400 pounds invested in th 4 percents would yield 200 per year for almost 9 years -- maybe you tried to sell a living to an older clergyman, so you could resell it sooner!
~kendall
Sat, Dec 7, 1996 (00:30)
#21
...."(a living) with an income of 200 pounds a year, could be sold for 1400 pounds..."
The math is troubling which ever way you look at it.
One the one hand, to ask 1400 pounds for a living that will generate only 200 pounds annually sounds very greedy to me. But then greed was a key character trait of John Dashwood.
On the other hand, if 1400 was a fair asking price for the colonel's living and if Darcy gave Wickham the fair asking price of the Kympton living, then the Kympton living would probably yield less than 500 a year and that does not sound like the 'very desirable family living' Wickham described.
Now Eliz. thinks the 3000 pounds is "so considerable an amount", and she cannot be wrong. And Mr. Darcy cannot be less than fair and honest. Otherwise, I am addicted to the wrong novel!
I worked it out with myself sort of like this: while seven times the annual yield seems like much too much, three-to-four times the yield seems in keeping with the times. So I put the Kympton living at 750 to 1000 per annum and add one more instance of greed to Mr. Dashwood's account.
~Hilary
Sat, Dec 7, 1996 (13:18)
#22
Anna, I hadn't read P&P when I first saw Wickham, and I too, thought he was quite convincing, and could accept Lizzie liking him. He probably did rationalise his behavior (we all do), I agree, but I think at heart he knew he was doing wrong.
~churchh
Sat, Dec 7, 1996 (19:34)
#23
Katy, once you're appointed, basically you continue drawing the income as long as you're above ground and breathing, so 5 years income as the price may not have been necessarily outrageous; on 3,000 pounds, that 600 pounds a year.
Six hundred pounds a year isn't that large an income if you're comparing with landed proprietors who keep a carriage, etc., but it's by no means something to sneeze at either...
It's 70% of Elinor and Edward's married income in Sense and Sensibility.