Sense and Sensibility

Cool. It's Sunday, Feb. 2 now...when do we start? ;)

Before we get into the story, acting, directing, and so forth, I want to praise the soundtrack of this movie. I frequently listen to it when I am working on the computer -- even when I can't remember what scene the music is from, the mood is very clear. The soundtrack uses an opera singer to perform the pieces that Kate Winslet's Marianne sang in the movie. Beautifully done, but different quality (less natural, I guess). Anyway, I find this one of the most moving soundtracks ever.

I listen to the soundtrack also. Patrick Doyle's page is htp://web.syr.edu/~ebedgert/doyle.html

Soundtracks of Patrick Doyle http://web.syr.edu/~ebedgert/doyle.html

This would be the "softly, softly" when Colonel Brandon arrives and is immediately Love- struck? Truly beautiful song .And does Kate sing it herself?

In the movie she does,but not on the CD Ann.

Is there a sexier line in this movie than Col. Brandon's "Give me an occupation, lest I run mad!!" I think not! *sigh*

And the look in the good Colonel's eyes every time he sees Marianne. Ahh, to have such eyes looking at me in this way. siiggghhhhh. Alan Rickman's performance was praised by many critics, of course, but my favorite was in "The New Yorker" (Dec 18, 1995 issue): "Rickman, accepting the challenge of holding our interest in the unhappiness of a reserved middle-aged man, draws us into Brandon's politely ardent spirit: his soft, deep voice and his yearning eyes keep telling us that there's more to him than Marianne can see. Although many English actors have taken a crack at portraying repression, Rickman may be the only one since Trevor Howard in 'Brief Encounter' who has made it magnetic." Magnetic, indeed. Alan Rickman made me see a Colonel Brandon who could eventually win Marianne's heart, something I was never certain based on my own idea of how he would look/act.

Thanks for The New Yorker excerpt. I did so love Rickman's portrayal of the Colonel. Another scene which deeply touched me is when the camera pans up to the hillside after the wedding ceremony and there's Willoughby on his horse, obviously thinking about what might have been. I wonder how close Marianne's thought that he might have grown to be sorry for marrying her was to the truth.

"Although many English actors have taken a crack at portraying repression, Rickman may be the only one since Trevor Howard in 'Brief Encounter' who has made it magnetic." I take it the person who said that didn't see Colin Firth's Darcy!

I thought the same thing Ann.:-)

I too love Alan Rickman as Col Brandon-the look in his eyes when Marianne thanks him for bringing her Mother. Sigh. My favorite scene, though, which never fails to send me reaching for the box of kleenex, has to be the beautifully shot scene of Marianne, looking out at Combe Magana. The rain, Pat Doyle's lushly romantic music, and of course the brillant Kate Winslet(Love is not Lost...Willoughby, Willoughby) always move me. On a related note, Did anyone feel cheated that the movie didn't include Willoughby's confession to Elinor? I understand why they didn't-wanting to make certain who the real hero of the film is-Brandon. But, that is one one of my all-time favorite parts in the book. Plus, it reveals another side to Elinor's personality. She really responds to Willoughby's magnetism and exclamations of Marianne-looking like an angel.

Loved the New Yorker review. But, Ann and Donna, it was written (12/18/95) before P&P aired here, so they couldn't have seen Colin's Darcy yet. I have to rewatch S&S before I comment at length, but when I first saw it in the theatre I took a friend who had never read the book. She asked me if the final scene with Willoughby on the horse was in the book, which made me reread it. I thought it was a very good synopsis of two long pages of text - all shown in 30 seconds or less. I guess that's what good screen adaptations do! More later.

Picture-trigger-happy strikes again : Elinor strolls with Edward across Norland Park, the estate that was once her home. Colonel Brandon (Alan Rickman) yearns for Marianne (Kate Winslet)even though she yearns for someone else.

Here is the official poster from Fox in Switzerland

Johanne, thanks for all these pics -- you have been busy, haven't you! The poster is the same as the cover on the screenply & diary by Emma Thompson.

Johanne, thank you so much for the lovely photos! Cassandra: Did anyone feel cheated that the movie didn't include Willoughby's confession to Elinor? Yes, I did. The omission diminished the importance of Willoughby's character and made him seem like a one-dimensional villain. Thompson's substitute--having Col. Brandon relate some of W's history to Elinor in London--was a pale substitute for what could have been a dramatic, emotional scene. But then, I wonder whether Greg Wise could have done it justice. I thought he was pretty cold and stiff, and I frankly wondered what Marianne saw in him. Susan: when the camera pans up to the hillside after the wedding ceremony and there's Willoughby on his horse When I first saw this in a movie theater, at this point the audience hissed!

On another note, here are some interesting reviews : from the Tower of Babel : http://www.towerofbabel.com/film/towerofcritics/sense_&_sensibility.shtml from the Boston Phoenix : http://www.bostonphoenix.com/alt1/archive/movies/reviews/12-14-95/SENSE_AND_SENSIBILITY.html from Premiere Magazine : http://www.premieremag.com/marquee/nowplay/sense/ from Hendrix College, The Profile on-line : http://www.hendrix.edu/profile/01.25.96/sense.html and I could'nt not post this one as well :

First of all, I find virtually no flaws in this film. It is my fave of all movies. I made me laugh, it made me cry, it made me feel!! S&S is what brought about my JA addiction, and the most ironic thing was the day I saw it, was the first day of P&P on A&E. Coincidence, I think not!! One thing I would also like to point out is another ommission of when Edward does visit the Dashwoods at the cottage, and leaves without Elinor being sure of his feelings. I loved the screenplay, but I don't know whether I would have wanted this in the film. What does everyone else think?

I recently read the screenplay and will have to watch the movie again soon but must comment on Greg Wise. I think casting him as Willoughby was very good since he so captures the JA villian - good looking but lacking in character. In P&P2 Adrian Lucas was attractive but (to me) not as handsome as Wise (nor Darcy) If I had pictures, I'd start a drool topic with him. ;-) I agree with everyone's comments on Alan Rickman. He was superb! I really felt for him as he loved Marianne from afar. He is an incredible actor!! But must concede that Darcy/CF wins for suppressed passsion. Rebecca - I agree with you. Having Edward visit, may have caused viewers to feel that he was playing with Elinor's emotions.

One of my favorite scenes is when Col. Brandon carries Maryanne into the house. It is a complete contrast as to when Willowby did the very same thing. Willowby with all his youth, strength, and romance novel hero type looks is what every young woman wants...yet Col. Brandon straining, breathing heavy, and look of anguish is what every woman needs, a man who does this because he loves not just because he wants to be loved.

Good point, Candace. It's important to note that Col. Brandon is a real man (literally and figuratively!), aging, and with the rheumatism to prove it (!), and not a youthful fantasy. In this adaptation, Willoughby is portrayed as such a fairytale cipher I think it's impossible to take him seriously...especially during the scene where he comes to check up on Marianne, and whips out the pocket sonnets when he finds out they are Marianne's favorites (in the book, wasn't Marianne's favorite author/poet Cowp r?). Greg Wise seems to ham him up, even, while he speaks, impassioned, to Marianne. Anyway, I agree that the trials of adoration are much more attractive than the simplicity of a fairy-tale romance. Col. Brandon goes out after Marianne, and overexerts himself to haul her back to safety. He looks like he's about to keel over when he gets her inside...Willoughby's rescue was much too perfect and too easy, and way too coincidental to be reality. Especially with that damn white (gray, really) horse...

#21 They hissed? Even though Willoughby was a scoundrel, I still felt somewhat bad for him. He really had meant to propose to Marianne; he wasn't just stringing her along. Obviously, the Colonel's love for her is compelling and irresistible and I was on his side, but they hissed? Poor man!

He WAS pathetic...because he did stupid, jerky things! Willoughby is a man who lets life ruin his happiness. He is no liar, but he is so irresponsible and inconsiderate (esp. in the film)...and ineffectual...that he forces himself to violate others' confidence in him! He emasculates himself! What a mess.

Susan: Even though Willoughby was a scoundrel, I still felt somewhat bad for him. He really had meant to propose to Marianne; he wasn't just stringing her along. . . . they hissed? Poor man! But in the movie, the complexity of his character is not as clear as it was in the book. That's my main objection to the omission of the scene in which he comes to Cleveland when Marianne is sick. The fact that he'd go there at all (even if he was a little drunk at the time) to face a frozenly disapproving Elinor, and talk about his bad behavior towards Marianne and Eliza, shows that he has courage, at least. Leaving it out of the movie meant that people who know only the movie will consi er him a one-dimensional villain who deserved at least a good hissing.

Can I put in a good word for the other couple? I thought Ms Thompson and Mr Grant did a wonderful job. I always had problems reading the book because Edward always seemed a bit shadowy and insubstantial, and Elinor never did anything romantic- or so it seemed.But I took to HG's Edward at once, and his tactics at drawing out Margaret from under the library table suddenly made the whole story make sense(!) to me.I am always in awe of Ms thompson, and can only say that she was absolutely flawless in this. I ought the video, a vaery rare phenomenon in our house!

I am with you Caroline-I am not a huge Hugh Grant fan, but I was also impressed with the charm and underlined sweetness that he brought to the Edward role, even with all the fluttering of eyelashes.(one of JA's more shadowy creations) I really liked all of the scenes between Edward and Margaret(especially when she pokes him with her sword, and of course Elinor's reaction). I agree-those scenes as well as the My father's Favorite shot bring a greater depth and sense of romance to the E/E romance. And, one of my all time favorite JA adaptation-romantic scenes has to be the My Heart is and always will be-yours.

Wouldn't you all agree that the essence of S&S is the relationship between the sisters? I think that the romantic relationships/complications and of course Marianne's heartbreak are secondary to the sister dynamic. The movie/book moves me the most on that level;it reminds me so much of my own relationship with my sister. And-I love how ET played the scene where she's begging Mrainne not to leave her alone. I remember reading in her diaries that they were going to play that scene full-out with the waterwor s. BUt, they decided at the last minute to do it like a frightened child. Incredible, moving scene-it really shows Elinor's hidden vulnerability.

"He's sitting next to her!"........................"He's going down on one knee!"But we never know if he had a ring handy or not!

Cass, get into Pemberley.....NOW!

I really liked how Margaret became a person in this movie..in the book, she's barely mentioned and in the earlier BBC adaptation, she isn't even there! Having her interact with Edward was a brillant device on Emma Thompson's part, because Edward is very shadowy in the book as well in the early going. It's hard to see what elinor would find so attractive in Edward, but I could definately see how she could "esteem him"! :-)

Caroline-apparently, they shot an additional scene with Edward explaining how jealous he was of Col. Brandon, ending with a kiss.(ET really wanted to kiss Hugh after all the movies they have been in together) But, they cut it. Too much kissing for a JA movie.

]"Too much kissing for a JA movie." But was a kiss really necessary? We have complained (some of us, anyway!) that the kiss in P&P2 was not all that great. I echo the opinions regarding expanding the part for Margaret -- it was nicely done. One movie review I read complained that Emma Thompson had added a sister; he obviously had not read the book! I think Margaret was a little younger in the movie, as well, but that balances out (a little bit) the actors who were much older than the parts in the book (Elinor is supposed to be 19 and Col Brandon about 36). Actually, with an older Elinor, she is more believeable; at 19, to be so very sensible, controlled, etc. is almost too much.

I agree with Caroline and Cassandra regarding Edward in the adaption; HG made him a very likable man. And as Kathleen states, his interaction with Margaret was a hoot. Could someone explain Lucy Steele to me? Does she inflict herself on Elinor (by feigning to be her friend) because she knows Edward loves E? I just cannot believe she has that much on the ball to be that evil.

Johanne - Thank you so much for the picture of Willoughby! I know he is contemptible but Greg Wise is really handsome. I also agree that Emma's portrayal made Elinor's sense come across as both logic but also to protect her from getting hurt. Also I agree with Cassandra, S&S to me is also about the relationship between these two sisters and reminded me of my own relationship with my dearest sibling.

I agree with you Cass, about the sister-realtionship being the main focus of the story. The romantic relationships are obviously secondary...after all, Edward is absent for the middle half of the film, and the plot moves right along with or without the extra sensitivity on Willoughby's part, and, of course, Willoughby (essentially a cipher anyway, at least in the film) gets traded in for Col. Brandon at the end (Brandon is more real in the film than in the book, but he's still essentailly a substitute fo the other guy when Marianne grows up). Elinor's and Marianne's friendship is the only bond which is obviously consistent and real throughout the entire thing. They are always together. Wasn't the original title of the book supposed to be Elinor and Marianne anyway? --- Lucy? I don't know. Evil, probably not...but certainly very selfish. She saw Edward as a possession, a ticket to prosperity, and didn't want to lose him. Perhaps she was simply afraid of Elinor's influence on Edward and just wanted to see what she was up against. When she found that Elinor was nice, she probably thought barbed hints might scare her away sufficiently.

About Hugh Grant's acting, he play's the same character in every film he's ever done. In Four weddings and a funeral and Nine months, he play's the shy, bumbiling, slightly charming Englishman who manages to get himself into all kinds of trouble, but some how manages to solve the problems and gets the girl. But, he is very good with this character and in this film. I also loved Margaret, she is the typical 12 year old who spends all her time up trees and under furniture. The funniest scene in this whole film is when Margaret hits Edward in the stomach with a stick when Elinor is looking at them through the window. I have to say that I may like this film more than P&P.

You know a movie is good when a 6 y.o absolutely adores it. She gets hysterical when Edward finds Margaret under the table and kicks the atlas so Fanny doesn't see her. She loves the swordfight between M and E. I took her to see it in the theaters and at first she was complaining that she did not want to see it. But she too, got caught up in the prettyness of that world. Alan Rickman, IMO, was absolutely perfect. When he first comes on the scene listening to Marianne singing, you know he is far gone. He is smitten. I have always been a big Hugh Grant fan so I thought the sublety he brought to this role was refreshing. Any other actor could have overacted, as you will. Hugh Laurie, lest we not forget him. I could not stop laughing whenever he was in the scene. He is the most funniest thing going. I loved how he would put down Charlotte, but you knew he really loved her. The scene with the baby. And Mrs Jennings explaining how much he loves his son. The price of the ticket alone was worth that scene. Ang Lee, should be commended. For a man of foreign extraction to actually hit Jane Austen's period on the head, he should have won Best Director, or even been nominated. Well I've rambled on enough.

I'm glad someone else mentioned Hugh Laurie. His "I came into town with no other thought" was great. I also loved how he let his guard down and offered Elinor any assistance he could give when he and his family had to leave their house because of Marianne's illness. It was so truly heartfelt. And yes, the scene with the baby was absolutely priceless!

re: #24 In the book Willoughby tells Elinore that he initially considered Marianne (and her family) as someone to "play" with until he had to leave - a distraction, but that he did eventually develope real affection for her. I have to agree about Rickman - he is a great actor. See him in Rasputen (for which he won the Golden Globe - did I spell that right?) and also Truly, Madly, Deeply. He does so much with his looks to let us know how he feels. If you think about it, many of the small charcters do stand out work: Laurie, Jennings, even her butler (with that twisted wig and look for Marianne). Explain more about the alternate ending where Edward is jeolous of Brandon. Was this what he told her in the book? Did I miss something? I guess I should buy ET's book. Wouldn't you love to have her as a friend? She would be great at parties. She spins such great yarns on talks shows. I would love to be that clever. My favorite scene is when Elinor yells at Marianne, telling her she would have "proof enough of a broken heart for her. I agree, it is the sisters relationship that is important here, we just get a little romance as a bonus.

I also loved Hugh Laurie. My favorite scene: the look on his face when Mrs Jennings tells him that he got Charlotte at a good bargain and she now has th upper hand on him-he can't give her back! And I loved the actress who played Charlotte too: the breathless squeal(sounded like one of Tarzan's animal friends) upon hearing "London" and the way she ran over to Elinor and Lucy. As well, her reaction to Marianne sickness-Mrs Barton!Mrs Barton! Kali-you are right. Elinor and Marianne was the original title. I've always loved finding out little facts like this. AS we all know, P&P was supposed too have been First Impressions. And GWTW-Tomorrow is another day. Plus-Scarlett was originally called Pansy. Pansy O'Hara!

If I may add my favorite Hugh Laurie moment--when Charlotte is gushing on about how she cannot believe Willoughby's home is 5 miles from theirs: "5 miles? No I cannot believe it!" and he looks over the edge of his paper and drawls, "Try." Priceless!

Hugh Laurie is really married to the person who played Charlotte. Little bit of trivia

LauraM: Hugh Laurie is really married to the person who played Charlotte. And did they not play another married couple in the movie Peter's Friends which also starred Emma Thonpson and Kenneth Branagh?

Dina-Good point about Willoughby playing with Marianne, and then devloping real feelings for her. Although as Elinor would say, these sentiments didn't prevent him from abandoning Marianne for Miss Grey and her 10 000 pounds. I always loved the way JA ended the book-very realistic. Willoughby didn't go to ruin over his ardent amour(nor did his wife pluck his heart out as Mrs Jennings suggested). Instead, he continued to enjoy his horses, although many an upcoming beauty was compared unfavourably to Mrs Br ndon. With respect to the alternate eding, I don't remember Edward telling Elinor he was jealous of Brandon in the book. And-I agree about ET-delightful. I loved her acceptance speech at the Golden Globes-Emma Tompkins....

Both book and film of S&S are works of genius. But it's kind of hard to like either Elinor or Marianne. Or for that matter many of the characters. The Dashwoods, John and Fanny treat the Dashwood widow and her children very poorly despite the promise made to Mr Dashwood senior. Elinor has too much sense and Marianne has too much romantic sensibility. Premise of the story, I know, but for that reason the two sisters are difficult to really like. And of the male characters, Willoughby is a cad for hiding of his relationship to another woman, amoung other things. Edward's seems weak and totally under the domination of his mother. Despite his vow to Miss Steele. He too engages in deception and hides from Elinor his secret engagement to Miss Steele. Col. Brandon it seems, is really trying to relive n earlier love and maybe regain his youth with a much younger woman. The gift of the living to Edward Ferrars seems merely to engratiate himself with the Dashwood family. Lucy Steele simply wants a good marriage settlement and dumps Edward for Robert Ferrars, when Edward loses his mother's favor. Mrs Ferrars treats, true to form, her youngest son and Lucy Steele poorly and would like to disinherit Robert as well for his interest in Miss Steele. Not to mention Fanny Dashwood's treatment of Miss Stee e. I love JA, but give me the elder Bennet Sisters, Anne Elliot or even Emma or Cath. Morland every time.

re Dina's comment about Willoughby developing feelings for Marianne after first thinking only of a frolic... Same thing with Henry Crawford and Fanny. JA must have known somebody like that.

Carl, glad you finally got back in.

Back to Hugh Laurie/Mr. Palmer in the Baby Thomas Scene: "...and his father has such a way with him!" Absolutely priceless.

Yes, he really appeared to be a doting father, didn't he?

Loved Hugh Laurie's dry wit all through and loved the baby scene. Just felt sorry for the baby!! But typical pose, somehow, even for fathers as recently as 20 or 30 years ago!!

Hugh Laurie was also a riot in 101 Dalmations. He would have made a wonderful Rosencrantz or Guildenstern in HAMLET. He would have brought much humour to those roles.

Hugh Laurie can play villains, dumb-bells and a whole wide range of characters. Like him very much when he collaborated with Stephen Fry, specially in A bit of Fry and Laurie", the many BlackAdder series (3 and 4), the Jeeves and Wooster series and Peter's friend. The modern Laurel and Hardy. Appreciate his recent turn in his career seeking meatyer roles and perhaps will he do onde day some drama, sure we would discover a whole new side to his talent.

#49 Amy, I am re-reading Mansfield right now and I do not even remember Henry Crawford wanting to marry Fanny. My memory is of Edmund wanting to marry the wrong woman - Miss Crawford. Goes back to the old argument: how much is remembered, and how much is remembered wrong (as in the movies vs the books). I think Jane also new foppish clergy and a rake with a last name beginning with a "W". You have to wonder at her neighbors reading her books trying to make out who everyone really is; like a Jackie Collins novel - oooh, yucky comparison, but you get my drift.

like a Jackie Collins novel - oooh, yucky comparison, but you get my drift. __ I do. I've not read much of her letters. I wonder if this matter of taking characters from people she knew was a worry or concern of anyone's.

The foreshadowing here as carried thru by ET is nicely done, also. In the carriage after the dinner at the manor with Sir J and Mrs. Jennings, Marianne is giving Margaret grief for bringing up the initial ''F'' to Mrs. Jennings, and their mother says ''If you can't think of anything nice, you can always talk about the weather''. Then, in the E/E proposal scene, when he first comes in, and there is an awkward pause, Margaret says ''We've been enjoying very fine weather''. Marianne gives her a 'be quiet' nudge, and she says indignantly ''Well, we have!'' Makes me think that ET remembers very well a child's view of the world, and the seemingly random logic of adults.

In the same scene, I love where Elinor finds out that Edmund is not married, and starts to go to pieces. The looks that pass between mother and daughters, and the way they scuttle out of the room is very good. Funny, sweet and realistic all at the same time.

I'm sure JA knew a Miss Bates. In her case, it wouldn't have taken much for JA's family or neighbours to identify who she was taking the mickey out of, would it? Maybe she had long wished in real life to say the kind of thing Emma does, knowing she couldn't. Miss Bates has often seemed to me to be a bit of naughty and understandable catharsis For JA.

Perhaps Jane herself felt that she had her Bates moments...

Good point Kali!!! Haven't we all? What better way in Regency Society to vent your pent up opinions of restrained manners than to write a novel about all the people in your life who drive you batty!!! I purchased a biography on Jane (Park Honan) at Christmas and am hoping it sheds some insight here. I don't know why the obsession with trying to understand her better. I am sure she was a very private person and even in her letters to Cassandra (have only read a few) probably did not share as much as we would have liked. I got Darcy's Story in the mail today -- the biography will have to wait!!

One of my favorite scenes in the movie is when Lucy tells Fanny that she is engaged to Edward. The screaming and the physical comedy is very funny! I also adore Hugh Laurie. He is so "droll"! I think he is hilarious as Wooster. I agree with Laura about 101 Dalmatians. He is great in that, too.

Pardon my grammar! I should have said"are " very funny.

Just an observation: It seems to me that the events in Elinor's and Marianne's love lives are more closely juxtaposed in the plotline of the book than the film. COuld this possibly be because the novel reveals so much more of Elinor's thoughts and concerns in relation to both of their experiences?

This does mean that Marianne will have to deal with seeing Willoughby's illegitimate child. Poor Marianne, JA does weave a web for a trying prosepct.I am sure that would be very heartfelt on her side. I do love S&S for all of its endearing/funny characters Mr. Palmer and Mrs Jennings and even Charlotte,but I think you have to be in good mood to watch.

Just wondering, did anyone else notice how the parrot snapped at Lucy Steele in that one scene? I just wanted to know that I was'nt the only one to be tickled by that. :-)

I had to watch S&S three times before I even liked it. P&P has me so spoiled. I agree with all of you that Emma Thompson is truly a great actress and a talented director and anything else she wants to be ---but -I do not like her as a romantic leading lady. She just looks much too sensible. On the third go around with the video I found how delightful it really is.

Somehow missed the parrot scene, but I did just watch S&S for the fourth time and saw some things new to me. In the scene where Marianne is so disgusted with Edward because his poetry reading is not up to her passionate standards, when she begins her own violent reading, she wakes Margaret, who is dozing against her mother's shoulder in the background. A couple other things which struck me this time around: Fanny, even though a witch spelled with a "b", is in some ways as funny as Mrs. Elton: "People always live forever when there is an annuity to be paid them." In answer to Edward's statement that the Dashwoods have just lost their father and their lives will never be the same: "That is no excuse." Marianne foreshadows her own illness and almost death: "To die for love! What could be more glorious!" I am undone tonight!

Yeah, the damn parrot was the inspiration for the humor in austen adaptations topic...I loved it too...

Claudia, thanks for pointing all those out- I might just watch it again to catch a few more little background things. Fantastic, aren't they?

I saw S&S for the first time last night and have just read all 71 posts (medals appreciated...;). I loved it. With a few exceptions of course; I'll get to those later. For a feature film length adaptaion it was great, although now I can understand the two women sitting in front of my friend at the movies: "I didn't understand that". I wouldn't have either if I hadn't read the book. I'm not complaining - I think the least you can do if you're going to watch a JA adaptation is read the book :) I was a bit sceptical of Hugh Grant before I saw it. No more - he was wonderful (I tried to ignore the eyelid fluttering but even that was endearing). One of the most frustrating things was spending 2 hours trying to figure out where I'd seen these actors before, prompting the remark from my friend that I watch too much British stuff on TV. I finally figured out that Mrs Dashwood was indeed the Duchess of Duke Street, and Sir John was the old vet from "All Creatures Great and Small". Hugh Laurie had me laughing just because I was expecting him to be funny ;) Wasn't mrs Dashwood (the older one) supposed to be prone to taking to bed with the most trivial of complaints (a la Mrs Bennet). I like her a lot more than in the book - maybe I haven't interpreted the book properly. The other thing that annoyed me was the too-obvious weather imagery - we were predicting when the clouds were going to lift etc, and all the countryside scenes with sheep (triggered daggy thoughts). Favourite scene: Lucy telling Fanny that she's engaged to Edward - LOL! Sorry for my post being so long...

Apparently, a few of the sheep passed out in the heat of filming...somebody thought that unsheared, undocked sheep were essential to the atmosphere, and so...well, whatever...;)

Hello, where is everybody? Is the discussion over?

Jane: Hello, where is everybody? Is the discussion over? Jane, our initial discussion of this movie took place 6-7 weeks ago. If youhave more to add to the discussion above, by all means, jump on in! I'm sure someone will join you! ;-)

By the way, I just read today that they are putting out a letterbox (wide-screen) version of S&S on video tape (April 22, I think).

Jane, I'd love to discuss S&S further -- you start and I'll follow!

Anybody who ever wants to revive a topic on this page, please do. Likewise, newcomers who see something on the archives page that sounds interesting, bring it back. The best way might be to choose 2 or 3 comments from the previous discussion and paste them into a new topic here along with your take on the subject. Ask me or Myretta or any of the regulars for help if you need it.

Thank you so much Susan! When I saw that the latest post was from the middle of Feb, I felt I hade missed all the fun. But can the discussion ever end? That�s what I like so much. There�s always new things, new lovely details to discuss. In S&S, Ellinor is the sense and Marianne is the sensibility. But how about the end? Is it the same then? Ellinor marries for love, but does Marianne really love Brandon? Or does she marry "for sense"?

Jane, I've always felt that Marianne doesn't really love Brandon, at least not in the passionate way she's always wanted to love someone. But she has seen where that got her, and she probably doesn't want to be hurt again. She knows that Brandon loves her and will be good to her (and the fact that he has money can't hurt). I think she definitely marries 'for sense.'

Susan, I think so to. In a way I feel sorry for Marianne. I don�t think she will be really happy in her marriage. And I think she will go on loving Willoughby as long as she lives. Isn�t it strange, all Jane Austen�s "leading ladies" marry for love - except Marianne. She is the only one who�s not getting the one she really wants.

I disagree -- I beleve that Marianne married "for sense" and "for love" -- True, it is a different love than she held for Willowby, but a deep love just the same. I stongly identified with Marianne, as I too seemed to always fall head over heals for those beautiful deep passionate men, but found "real" love with a man very much like Col Brandon...kind, caring, and comfortable.

Candace -- I agree with you. Jane Austen doesn't show us Marianne falling in love with Col Brandon, but she says that Marianne loved him, completely. And, don't many women get over the passion of a first love which doesn't last? At least the recent movie shows us Col Brandon reading poetry to Marianne, and with a great sense of feeling for the words. Even though the age difference between Alan Rickman & Kate Winslet was about 10 years more than the age difference is supposed to be in the book, I found Rickman very believeable as someone in love with (and eventually being loved by) Kate Winslet's Marianne. Having a real face for this character made all the difference for me.

Jane Austen stated her position in chapter 46 of Pride and Prejudice: ``If gratitude and esteem are good foundations of affection, Elizabeth's change of sentiment will be neither improbable nor faulty. But if otherwise, if the regard springing from such sources is unreasonable or unnatural, in comparison of what is so often described as arising on a first interview with its object, and even before two words have been exchanged, nothing can be said in her defence, except that she had given somewhat of a trial to the latter method in her partiality for Wickham, and that its ill-success might perhaps authorise her to seek the other less interesting mode of attachment.''

Indeed, Henry, that passage could be applied to Marianne's affairs of the heart as well, although Marianne had a stronger passion for Willoughby than Elizabeth had for Wickham.

I agree with you Candace that Marianne married for sense & for love. I think many of us have tall, dark, and handsome men in our past who are exciting and like to live life a bit on the edge. But our "sensible" side tells us that they may not be the most stable or responsible mates. I feel Marianne will always feel a certain love for Willoughby but she has chosen a very well rounded love in a life with Colonel Brandon.

I don't think you can equate Elizabeth's feelings for Darcy with Marianne's for Col. Brandon, because the two women are so different. I have no trouble believing that when Elizabeth fell in love, it was "the real thing," because this is the kind of love for which she is best suited, but Marianne is a different kettle of fish. Col. Brandon may be the kind of man she needed--stable, affectionate, fatherly--and I think she will always be fond of him, but her nature is given to emotional seizures and I can' help but feel that she will develop crushes on other men, Willoughby types, for the rest of her life. Not that I think she'll do anything silly like running off with one, but she'll always be susceptible.

So Marianne should keep her infatuation in the same way we do here :), intense but safe :)

A very sound idea Johanne!

]Col. Brandon may be the kind of man she needed--stable, affectionate, fatherly--and I think she will always be fond of him, but her nature is given to emotional seizures and I can' help but feel that she will develop crushes on other men, Willoughby types, for the rest of her life. My feelings exactly, Anne3!