pin-money & special license

I have explanations for these words near the bottom of the file http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/thresist.html By the way, the Pool book is apparently not the most accurate and definitve source...

Thank you, Zimei. But do tell also what Jane Austen ate, etc., so we all know what to do in that area (and any other JA tidbits from Pool's book) along with wearing our new hairdos, muslin gowns, handwriting retraining, accent, daily walks to town or gentlemen with letters under trees, etc. Pretty please?

Thank you Zimei. But I must agree with Cecily. Please tell all...

At the risk of seeming negative, "What Jane Austen Ate ..." contains some innacuracies and doesn't seperate JA's time (regency) from Dickens (Victorian), the later had much stricter rules of propriety, in the upper classes.

:But do tell also what Jane Austen ate, et Cecily and Leslie, I'm happy to oblige. I will post something from the Pool book tonight and will try my best to include only the regency food. Zimei

I'm afraid I have to put off reporting what's on Jane Austen's dinner table a little longer. The other day I went to get the Pool book renewed only to find out someone put a hold on it. I sould get it back when the next copy comes in a few days. I'm also going to the main library this weekend to get more background books (thanks HC for reminding me not to trust the Pool book blindly). Hmmm, should have minored 19-century English literary history in college :) Again, I apologize for not keeping my word, I hope it will not become a great scandal! Zimei

In the interest of avoiding unnecessary topic proliferation I'm going to post some general stuff on Regency financial stuff here; it seems to fit with the background information trend; as it will not poat as one large message I'm going to try it as a few smaller ones. A discussion I had yesterday with one of the recent additions to out group made me think that it might be worthwhile to repeat some of the information about the finances in the background of P&P. I'm doing this largely from memory, if I make errors of omission or commission would one of those present for the original discussions please correct me.

part2 At the beginning of P&p we have; Mr Bennet who owns (inherited) Longbourne estate, including the house and pleasure gardens and with farm(s) attached which provide an income of 2,000 pounds pa. This estate is entailed; it will be inherited by Mr Bennet's closest male heir (Mr Collins). If she survives Mr Bennet Mrs Bennet will have 5,000 pounds, the interest of which will bring in 200 pounds pa, and she will not own a house. After Mrs Bennet's death the 5,000 will be divided amongst her daughters, in a proportion to be decided by the arents, so the unmarried Bennet girls will average an income of 40 pounds pa each (jobs available are pretty much limited to governessing or companion - both dire!). Mr Collins is at present holds the 'living' of the church at Hunsford, bestowed on him by Lady Catherine. It would probably bring in 300-400 pounds pa, the house and usually some farm land would also be his free of charge. Lady Catherine cannot take it off him once he has been appointed, but could give him other livings to hold in addition to Hunsford, with the associated extra income. Although he is personally ridiculous, his intention of marrying one of the Bennet sisters sight unseen could be conside ed generous, as it would allow his wife, and by implication her mother and any unmarried sisters, to go on living at Longbourne, at his expense.

part3 Mr Bingley owns no land but has 100,000 pounds invested at 5%; 5,000 pa. His sisters each have 20,000 pounds, presumed also in the 5% 'govt bonds'; the Bingley money was made by their father who was a very successful merchant (in trade!) Mr Bingley intends buying an estate (and does so, 30 miles from Pemberly, a year after his marriage). Mr Darcy also owns an inherited estate, including the house and grounds of Pemberly and farms bringing in 10,000 pounds pa. Georgiana has an inheritance of 30,000, probably also in 5% govt bonds. Sir William Lucas was a merchant on a small scale before being knighted, and retired on not much money; his children will inherit very little, but his daughters do have brothers who may be able to support them if they do not marry; the range of jobs available for men was far greater.

part 4, final The very different conditions in the regency period make it very difficult to understand just how rich/poor these people were; for example no one had access to what I would regard as acceptable, let alone good, medical care. There are some very interesting comparisons drawn with modern American equivalents by Edward Copeland in his article " the Economic Realities of Jane Austen's Day" which appears in " Approaches to Teaching Austen's Pride and Prejudice" edited by Marcia McClintock Folso . Amongst other comparison he estimates Mrs Bennet's 200 pounds pa would allow the equivalent of a 4th floor walk-up studio-flat with a small stove, a small vacuum cleaner and a shared bathroom down the hall. Again, although Mrs Bennet is very silly, she is right to be concerned about her and her daughters' future; a good marriage for at least one is probably the only way out.

Topic 181 of 181 [austen]: Understanding Regency society Response 5 of 5: Amy (Amy) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:26) * 204 lines Moved from old topic, Mozart wigs ____ Topic 57 of 181: 'Mozart wigs' Sun, Dec 1, 1996 (21:25) | Rachel Youdelman (baka) Help! my kids are infected with my addiction to P&P2! My son says the servants are wearing 'Mozart wigs'!! from Rachel 11 new of 11 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 1 of 11: Amy Bellinger (Amy) * Mon, Dec 2, 1996 (04:02) * 13 lines Well, that [wigs] is one point on which I think What Jane Austen Ate... is accurate. I don't own the book, but if I remember Pool(e?) was sort of incredulous in his style of explaining the costuming of servants of the rich. He said something like, "For some reason, the wealthy had their servants dress as they themselves might have some 40 years before." In the neighborhood of Meryton, Nethfield and Longbourn, the Bingely household is the only one where we see servants so dressed. And that brings up something I have wondered about. How far away would some other great estates be from Longbourn and would the Bennets have been acquainted with those families. And. If Longbourn had a church, would not Netherfield be a parish too, or would it have been too close? Was the house at Netherfield an old estate or built by an upstart like Bingley himself? I don't think any of these questions are answered in the book, but wondered if there are any hints in the book, or if anyone who knows the period cares to speculate. Oh, sorry. I am on a ramble. Fun to think about the fact that Mozart was nearly comtemporary. I imagine his music was to our Regency friends as Gershwin is to us. Amy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 2 of 11: Anna (Anna) * Mon, Dec 2, 1996 (04:27) * 22 lines "For some reason, the wealthy had their servants dress as they themselves might have some 40 years before." it's still done in some circles - Euro/Brit upper classes on formal occasions mainly How far away would some other great estates be from Longbourn other than Netherfield? Pemberly was 10 mile in diameter, thus ~ 3 miles across (mind you I'm not sure if 'estate' in this context ment all the property or just the pleasure grounds, but I suspect the latter). Most of the land had been enclosed by then so allowing for some waste grounds there should be reasonable sized estates every 10 miles or so. Some at least of the owners would have been on visiting terms with the Bennets. If Longbourn had a church, would not Netherfield be a parish too, or would it have been too close? Was the house at Netherfield an old estate or built by an upstart like Bingley himself? I think if Netherfield was an established 'great house' with an associated village it would have had a church and parish, but not if it was a recent addition to the scene. I don't think we can tell which from the text. Oh, sorry. I am on a ramble. likewise - I was going to finish my tax return tonight. Fun to think about the fact that Mozart was nearly comtemporary. I imagine his music was to our Regency friends as Gershwin is to us. did you see the recent comment (here or on AustenL) that Mozart's music is technically much easier to play on a fortepiano than on a pianoforte? All that amateur playing mightn't have been as bad as I had thought. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 3 of 11: Donna (Donna) * Tue, Dec 3, 1996 (11:17) * 1 lines I thought "fortepiano" and "pianoforte" are the same thing. Did I miss something. Or is one larger then the other.Either one is upright or grand style. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 4 of 11: Anna (Anna) * Tue, Dec 3, 1996 (13:29) * 1 lines the pianoforte in 1812 was differently constructed to the pianoforte we use now (I don't know in what way - I've picked this much up from background reading but I'm no musician), and the earlier version is referred to nowadays as a fortepiano to distinguish it from the modern instrument. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 5 of 11: Ann Rydberg (Ann2) * Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (09:01) * 6 lines I found out that the French composer Couperin wanted something more varied than the cembalo. And one Bartolomeo Cristofori as an answer to this request constructed the pianoforte in 1709. The main difference from what I gather is that tiny hammers strike the strings and this can be done softly/piano or with force/forte (like Mrs Hurst on Netherfield Ball?).It seems they could be in rectangular form sometimes.The other special form comes from the soprano(?) strings being much shorter and thus needing less pace than the base strings. I have only guessed the words for those strings. Hope I make myself clear?! Thanks for explanation on fortepiano and pianoforte! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 6 of 11: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:14) * 1 lines Has anyone read the literary criticism comparing Jane Austen's style to Mozart's? It's pretty darned interesting - which I could recall what the source material is! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 7 of 11: Amy Bellinger (Amy) * Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:31) * 6 lines ] Has anyone read the literary criticism comparing Jane Austen's style to Mozart's? It's pretty darned interesting - which I could recall what the source material is! ___ I wish you could, too, Amytwo. Tease! Amyloo ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 8 of 11: Anna (Anna) * Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (15:20) * 1 lines ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 9 of 11: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (11:28) * 1 lines You know what, Amy1 -- I think it's actually an entire book which I saw in the UCLA Research Library. Next time I'm there, I'll try to refind! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 10 of 11: Anne3 (Anne3) * Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (16:13) * 9 lines Re: Austen & Mozart I know that a number of critics have compared P&P with The Marriage of Figaro, but the best Austen/Mozart comparison I know of is a quote from the critic Louis Kronenberger, who said (referring to criticism of Austen as trivial & decorative, i.e. "feminine" in the pejorative sense): There are those who think Jane Austen tea-tablish, as there are those who think that Mozart tinkles. . . . which is a great line, don't you think? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 11 of 11: The Mysterious H.C. (churchh) * Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (10:52) * 7 lines Re: 57:2 Anna, the Pemberley estate was actually much bigger than the average landed country gentleman's estate... Re: 57:9 Amy2 --The Mozart-Austen book is by Robert K. Wallace; the reference is on-line in the bibliography at my site: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austfbib.html Re: 57:1 Amy, as for keeping servants in older styles, apparently footmen in the houses of the wealthy had powdered hair up to Dickens' period...