The Letter

One thing that bugged me about the dramatization of the letter was that it failed to include a vital bit of information (at least I think so). When I first saw P&P2, I had not read the book, so I could not figure out why Wickham wanted revenge because it seemed that Darcy treated him pretty fairly, based on the letter scene. After reading the book, though, it makes since because you find the motivation for Wickham's revenge. I think the fact that Wickham asks for the postion he formerly declined three (?) years later, when he has run out of money (and the position had been filled) and Darcy tells him no--this is what sets up Wickham revenge, because in Wickham's mind, the position was always there and waiting--a safety net, if you will. When Darcy removes this, Wickham is angered and turns vicious. Darcy says something about Wickham accusations to him at the time being no less severe than those he has since made to acquain ances. (Don't have the book with me today, so can't quote exactly).

I think in first reading the letter, Elizabeth is still quite angry with Darcy for all his past "sins," especially for breaking up Jane & Bingley. Eg. "Insufferable presumptions" and "Hateful man." But I think over time as she has an opportunity to reflect on his words, she sees that much of what he relates is true (especially with regard to her family which is much less "reserved" than Darcy's). She certainly sees him in a different light with regard to Wickham.

One thing that has always bothered me about the letter is as follows: Why doesn't Elizabeth tell Jane that Bingley really does love her but that his plans to propose to her were thwarted by Darcy & company. It seems that this revelation would have given Jane some comfort and perhaps directed her as to how to respond to Bingley's affections in the future. Does Lizzy not tell because Darcy has petitioned her to keep the information in the letter to herself? Why then does she go on to tell Jane about Wickham & Georgianna? Does she feel the news about Bingley & Janes's heart which is "not easily touched" will hurt her further? Or is it maybe because she has a new-found respect for Darcy & would not want him to be viewed poorly in Jane & everyone else's eyes? Many already dislike him so perhaps she was trying to restore his "goodness" among the masses?

Why doesn't Elizabeth tell Jane that Bingley really does love her but that his plans to propose to her were thwarted by Darcy & company. It seems that this revelation would have given Jane some comfort.... Maybe she was trying instead to spare her. It's not like Jane could follow-up or encourage Bingley in any way. Look how Lizzie didn't have a chance to speak to Darcy after she found out his involvment in the Lydia affair. He came over several times and then was gone. She only got to speak after J&B were engaged. Also Lizzie didn't share too much information about her changed feelings for Darcy either. I think she was trying to spare Jane the pain of thinking "he loves me but not enough to do something ab ut it".

I am supremely gratified you found my topic worthy of discussion!! :-) I feel like a fully indoctrinated "member" now!! About the reversal of the topics in the production - I too had wondered this, but watched it again yesterday - what torture! :-) - and think it may be because of how they wanted it staged - Darcy gives the background on Wickham, then they go to him actually giving the letter to Lizzy, then they show her alone, reading the stuff about her family. But in the book, she was outraged about the things he said about her family until she read what he wrote about Wickham, and this made her go back and reread the tuff about her family. Just a thought. I think that Lizzy never told Jane about the Bingley part of the letter because she didn't want to give Jane any false hopes. She thought that Mr. Darcy must hate her after how she treated him during the proposal, and she didn't dream that Darcy would give Bingley his 'approval' to go after Jane.

Another thing - the letter is a real turning point for Lizzy in that up until now she has prided herself on her ability to read people, to understand their natures. Now she has to face the fact that she has completely misjudged not one person, but two, Wickham and Darcy. It makes her doubt everything she has thought about herself up until now. This letter would have changed her life, even if she never ended up marrying Darcy.

Why doesn't Elizabeth tell Jane that Bingley really does love her but that his plans to propose to her were thwarted by Darcy & company. It seems that this revelation would have given Jane some comfort.... I agree that Lizzy didn't want to give Jane more pain by giving her false hopes, but I also wonder if she doesn't tell Jane because she doesn't want her to think badly of Darcy! One of the first things Darcy asks Elizabeth after they come to their understanding is whether the letter soon made her think better of him. The letter obviously made her begin to think better of him immediatley, and was important enough to her that she kept it, as she still had it when Darcy proposed to her again. Maybe she didn't want Jane to hate Darcy as much as she had formerly done herself.

Oh, and I forgot to say that Elizabeth knows how distressing it is to Jane to have to think badly of anyone. I guess she feels the revelation about Wickham's character to be necessary.

Barbara - I agree with all of your above statements!

I definitely agree that the letter is a turning/change point for Elizabeth. Off the top of my head, there's a line soon after the letter, something to the effect of "I felt I had never known myself until that moment." So, the letter introduced a lot of food for thought for Elizabeth. She was embarrassed that she'd been taken in so completely by Wickham. She stopped being angry at Bingley. She realized that Bingley and Jane's separation had left them both unhappy. She felt stupid for thinking Darcy had treated Wickham so badly. She was embarrassed about the way her family behaved in general. She began to change in her feelings for Darcy. AND she saw no benefit in making Jane feel as bad as she did over all of the e things. That's a lot of food for thought!

I think Elizabeth immediately believed Darcy about Wickham and was embarrassed because she had been so easily deceived. She did not tell Jane why Bingley left because (1) there was probably nothing she could do about it, (2) she did not want to tell Jane that it was her family that, in a sense, ruined her chance with Bingley, and (3) she also did not want Jane to think badly of Darcy since she had already misjudged him so badly.

I agree with the reasons given above for Lizzy not telling Jane. Austen says it explicitly in the book that not even Jane is forgiving enough to forget what Darcy did, so Lizzy didn't want her sister to know about it.

Why doesn't Elizabeth tell Jane that Bingley really does love her but that his plans to propose to her were thwarted by Darcy & company. It seems that this revelation would have given Jane some comfort and perhaps directed her as to how to respond to Bingley's affections in the future. Does Lizzy not tell because Darcy has petitioned her to keep the information in the letter to herself? Chapter 40 contains Lizzie's conversation with Jane on this subject, and directly explains why she did not tell Jane about Darcy's role in redirecting Bingley's affections: The tumult of Elizabeth's mind was allayed by this conversation. [in which she tells about Darcy's proposal and about Wickham's seduction of Georgiana] She had got rid of two of the secrets which had weighed on her for a fortnight, and was certain of a willing listener in Jane, whenever she might wish to talk again of either. But there was still something lurking behind, of which prudence forbad the disclosure. She dared not relate the other half of Mr. Darcy's letter, nor explain to her sister how sincerely she had been valued by his friend. Here was knowledge in which no one could partake; and she was sensible that nothing less than a perfect understanding between the parties could justify her in throwing off this last incumbrance of mystery. ``And then,'' said she, ``if that very improbable event should ever take place, I shall merely be able to tell what Bingley may tell in a much more agreeable manner himself. The liberty of communication cannot be mine till it has lost all its value!''

I know this is not what you've been talking about here, but I just want to squeeze in my thoughts concerning the letter. How wonderful it is that a man would go straight to his pen and paper to reveal what he couldn't face to face, and shares his most intimate secrets to gain the understanding of the woman he loves. You can tell that there is future for these two, even when she refuses him. They openly discuss their feelings. (Lizzy during the proposal scene, and Darcy both during the proposal scene and with the letter. I also like comparing Mr. Collins' proposal scene with Darcy's and how different her reactions were. She idn't even bother talking to Mr. Collins. Darcy and Lizzy were synchronized at some level. They were actually communicating. Oooops I am discussing another topic. Better get back!) To me, the letter shows that he is not giving up on her, even after such a powerful rejection. I admired him when he questioned why he had been refused and I admired him even more when he wrote that letter. I find the letter terribly romantic for what it symbolizes, despite its contents. Megan

I agree with Vivian that Lizzy did not want Jane to think any worse of Dacry than already in circulation at Meryton. She probably realised that this is the one man she was slowly growing to Respect, especially in light of the letter and the discoveries of her misjudgement in both Wickham and Darcy. Perhaps, she started to realise how embarrassingly her family had behaved and that Darcy's "to him (Bingley) I had been knder than to myself" was beginning to flatter her - here was a man of consequence in the orld and to be so singled out by him and enough to want to marry her must have been very overpowering. The contents of the letter shoke up the status quo of her world.

In chapt 38, while Lizzy and Jane are both in London, JA says this of Lizzy's contemplations about sharing part of the letter with Jane: "the state of indecision in which she remained as to the extent of what she should communicate; and her fear, if she once entered in the subject, of being hurried into repeating something of Bingley which might only grieve her sister further." I tend to believe that lizzy holds back to help the plot. If she tells Jane everything, the suspense regarding both relationships at the end of the novel is lessened. Jane will know Bingley loves her and is coming back to her when he comes back to Netherfield, and she and Bingley will exchange enough information to speed Lizzy and Darcy's relationship along.

I always thought that Lizzy's feelings for Darcy changed from hate to love after reading the letter, but she would not admit it to herself at the time. So much information was given to her in that letter that it took her quite some time to figure everything out, including what to tell Jane. Then, when she does see Pemberley for the first time, it truly is a great disappointment. She realizes how much her feelings have changed and wants to somehow acknowledge them to him. It makes their unexpected meeting much more electric.

I had not read the book when I first saw the movie. (I did, however, purchasae it the nest day!) What struck me was that I had no indication from the film that Elizabeth's character "grew" as a result of The Letter. I have said it before, that I feel this was not well addressed by the screenplay. I feel JE did her best considering what she was given (a heavy release of breath in exasperation, some exaggerated flashbacks, etc.) I would like to have seen her coming to terms with herself as clearly as Darc 's character growth was played out. Secondly, I though that Ms. Austen did a great thing with the timing of The Letter. Throughout the book we see a pattern of action or event followed by Jane and Elizabeth debriefing, action or event, Jane and Elizabeth debriefing. Suddenly, the biggest event and "no Jane to comfort me". Indeed, Lizzie is forced to look at herself in the mirror rather than sound off to a sympathetic ear. To me this is significant, as most of us would have the urge to "run for help/guidance" rather than look this closel at ourselves and at our mistakes. Your thoughts? Cleo

I had not read the book when I first saw the movie. (I did, however, purchasae it the nest day!) What struck me was that I had no indication from the film that Elizabeth's character "grew" as a result of The Letter. I have said it before, that I feel this was not well addressed by the screenplay. I feel JE did her best considering what she was given (a heavy release of breath in exasperation, some exaggerated flashbacks, etc.) I would like to have seen her coming to terms with herself as clearly as Darc 's character growth was played out. Secondly, I though that Ms. Austen did a great thing with the timing of The Letter. Throughout the book we see a pattern of action or event followed by Jane and Elizabeth debriefing, action or event, Jane and Elizabeth debriefing. Suddenly, the biggest event and "no Jane to comfort me". Indeed, Lizzie is forced to look at herself in the mirror rather than sound off to a sympathetic ear. To me this is significant, as most of us would have the urge to "run for help/guidance" rather than look this closel at ourselves and at our mistakes. Your thoughts? Cleo

OOps sorry Cleo

Cleo and Lynn (is it something about the name that I seem to keep agreeing with you Lynn?!) - I too agree that the letter is what begins to change Lizzy's mind about Darcy - she is probably already half in love with him when she sees him at Pembereley. I too thought that this screenplay did not do enough with the gradual changing of Lizzy's sentiments. You see a little more of it, but not as much as in the novel.

I have to say that I feel it is not just Darcy's love which makes him write that letter -- that famous Darcy pride is riled, also! The rejection is bad enough, but then she takes Wickham's part? This cannot be borne! From a man who always speaks the truth, to have someone believe a falsehood about him is simply not acceptable. And to have the unbeliever be the woman he loves? I think he would have done just about anything to redeem himself in Lizzy's eyes. Think Darcy is a Virgo?

"I tend to believe that lizzy holds back to help the plot. " That is an interesting approach Katy, I do believe it did. Perhaps Lizzy was unsure how deeply Bingley would still have felt for Jane after such a long separation and to give Jane some hope would have been unkind especially if Bingley had not returned to netherfield or returned and behaved indifferently to Jane.

Susan, You are so right - he was so outraged with her taking Wickham's side that he wanted the truth out in the open (so to speak). I can't remember if his birth is discussed in the book, but Inko's has it in May in her fanfic. Probably one of those Aries/Taurus cupse babies! Talk about stubborn!

Lynn, I actually have Darcy's birthday on April 12. Worked that out from the chronology of P&P on the JA info.page, the fact that he said, at the 2nd proposal, that he had been proud and conceited from "eight to eight and twenty", and from guessing that he wouldn't want to spend his birthday at Rosings. Therefore I guessed that, since the first proposal was on the 9th April, the letter on the 10th, he and Fitz left on the 11th and I gave him a birthday on the 12th! Which meant he was 28 on April 12th a d from there on started to change!!

Yes, one must expect a Navy man to be a little weather beaten, to be sure.

Oops. That does not make any sense. I meant to post it in the Ciaran Hinds topic in drool

There's some talk here about Darcy not liking Elizabeth having heard bad stuff about him from Wickham and not liking her taking Wickham's side. I think there is much more to it than that. In MHO- Darcy's wild with jealousy! One line of the letter (at least in the book, not sure about video - guess I'll have to rewatch again ) has Darcy write "Here again I shall give you pain - to what degree you only can tell. But whatever may be the sentiments which Mr. Wickham has created, a suspicion of their nature shall not prevent me from unfolding his real character. It adds even another motive." He can't stand the thought of her being attached to Wickham. He wants to persuade her that Wickham is not worthy of her - and make sure that Wickham doesn't have a chance with her. I'm sure there's a fanfic in this somewhere... He