Guilty Pleasures: Romance in P&P

Well, since I started this, I'll begin: I have to say my favorite romantic moment is that first horrific proposal! I don't know why -- maybe it's because there's enough sexual tension in that room to defeat Napoleon's Army. And the acting is just so darned incredible! We've all dwelt on how great Firth was here, but what about Jennifer? It seems to me she conveys more with her expressions and tone of voicethan volumns can speak. Also think that Austen was particularly "on" in the amazing quality of this dialogue.

Is this where us 2:s can gather?... Now to the point... This most certainly is a vibrating scene. And as pointed out to us by Colin himself very romantic, as Darcy wants to explain in this akward manner that he is no fool, that he knows what is proper, that he has considered every evil consequence of his action and still it can't be helped. Oooh his glances from the moment he enters the room. The way he moves around like a tiger in a cage... and when he tries to collect the pieces of his heart after the terrible disappointment. in a voice of forced calmness, he said- "And is this all the reply which I am to have the honour of expecting!... His face all perplexion and pain... And you are ever so rigth about Jennifer's acting. Convincing and full of variation. Astonished, curious even at first and then as her anger builds up to the different outbursts of reproach. Really great.

I love the scene at the Lambton Inn after the news of Lydia's elopement. Darcy is so gentle and caring and helpless before he knows what the matter is. In P&P2, his leave-taking is a little cold, but the dialogue that JA gives him softens that a great deal.

Thanks Ann, we 2's must stick together! Another thing I noticed -- Jennifer looks very different in this scene than she does in the rest of the film. I don't know if it's the way they lit her, but her face seems softer. Am I dreaming this?

And Linda, speaking of touching (I remember seeing some posts about the lack of it) -- doesn't Darcy touch Lizzy a number of times in this scene. He puts his hand on her arm, does he not?

Well I'm not a "2" but I agree with you - I love the first proposal scene! Thinking about it it's probably because it's the first time Lizzy and Darcy have a confrontation where they tell each other how they feel (the concept of release of tension mentioned by someone). Lambton Inn would come third for me after Darcy running from Pemberley to find Elizabeth. I agree that Jennifer Ehle looked a lot different in the first proposal scene, as did CF - perhaps because it was filmed only 2 weeks into shooting.

Sorry girls, but I loved the "look" Darcy and Lizzie give each other over Georgiana playing the piano at Pemberley. The slight smile on Darcy's face gives me shivers up my spine!

I still am partial to the first time Darcy visits Lizzy alone at Hunsford. He seems so desperate to be able to carry on a conversation, but is so very incapable of doing so--until he provokes an argument. The look on his face when she takes the bait is wonderful, a mixture of joy and regret.

So difficult to pick one fave -- but one of mine is the end of the second proposal, when Darcy turns and says, "... dearest, loveliest Elizabeth." It's the first time, I believe, that he calls her by her first name alone, and the look is sooo tender & romantic. Ahhh, yes, one of my favorite scenes, indeed.

You've all mentioned the best but what about the scene after Darcy & lizzie run into each other at Pemberley. Darcy straightening his attire, running to the coach to catch Lizzie. Then the when he asks Lizzie to meet Georgiana. What they must be suffering.

Ah, yes, kathleen...I think during the second proposal's "Dearest, lovliest" line is the first time Darcy (CF), aside from "the look," actually warms up...he looks as if he's about to melt all over her. Oddly enough, it is Lizzy who then tenses up...she can't even look at him. It must have been very odd indeed to have Mr. Darcy at her feet after so many months of his stiff pride and awkward admiration...

My favorite is when Darcy comes to visit w/Bingley, after Lydia's rescue-though Mrs Bennet's remarks are enough to make one vince P.S. I also love "the look" scene and when he runs into her at Pemberley also

Not to mention Darcy waiting at the window to spy Lizzie at the Netherfield ball, then retreating; and the whole glorious dialogue between the two of them during that dance/sparring match!

The scene where he comes out of the bath with his robe on and stares longingly at Lizzie from the window. I wonder what pleasurable thoughts are running through his head then. (This isn't my favorite one but the others have already been mentioned)

I love the vulnerability that CF/Darcy shows in the scene with Elizabeth after she learns of Lydia's elopement. He seems so desperate, he wants to help her but he cannot (just then). The dialogue that melts me the most is when Lizzy aplogizes for crying (CF/Darcy has her hand in his), and CF/Darcy says, "No, no.." with such a look of desperate agitation and concern, and his voice in those two words becomes so low and tender, so intimate, that you can almost imagine them embracing right there. Of course I like the "look" very much also, but that has been discussed at length. I was actually disappointed with the second proposal scene in P&P2. I always imagined a more joyful response from Darcy and Lizzie than what was portrayed. This was the resolution of more than a year of longing, learning, and loving, yet their countenances were so sedate! Kathy

Kathy, I agree with you completely about the second proposal. I've always found it disappointingly anticlimactic. JA says, . . .The happiness which this reply produced, was such as he [Darcy] had probably never felt before; and he expressed himself on the occasion as sensibly and as warmly as a man violently in love can be supposed to do. Had Elizabeth been able to to encounter his eye, she might have seen how well the expression of heart-felt delight, diffused over his face, became him; but, though she could not look, she could listen, and he told her of feelings, which, in proving of what importance she was to him, made his affection every moment more valuable. Well, gee, couldn't we have had some of that? The P&P2 version is all repressed emotion--the nadir of British stiff-upper-lippiness. Five hours of smoldering and all we get is restraint.

Anne 3, some months ago I used exactly this quote for exactly the same purpose, and was universally contradicted! I agree wholeheartedly with you and Kathy! Joan, too

So many excellent scenes have been mentioned (The Look, Hunsford, Darcy straigtening his clothes to see Lizzy and her anunt and uncle at P., etc.) I loved all of them but The Look is my favorite. I also must agree with Anne 3, Kathy and Joan, too the joy of the second proposal is cut short but I do love Darcy's "dearest, loveliest Elizabeth." They could have given us more of that scene and when Eliza and Darcy talk about when they fell in love. Maybe the film footage is there and just wasn't included (wishful thinking I know but I must dream) and will be included in a directors edition of the videos. Karen

will be included in a directors edition of the videos. I wonder occasionally if Simon Langton takes bribes...

I also agree that the second proposal scene lacked something (maybe too much was left on the cutting room floor). For one thing, when Darcy says 'dearest, loveliest Elizabeth' and then turns to look at her, it seems to me they should have STOPPED WALKING! for a brief moment. Firth's reaction when Lizzy says her feelings are 'quite the opposite' is wonderful.

I agree, the second proposal was unfulfilling. I calmly waited for the following scenes to clear my anticipation but nothing of consequence occurred until the final kiss. By the time this event took place, the kiss seemed completely out of character. Would such a man kiss even his wife in public? I've always imagined someone key in screen writing had to rush off to another job.

Well, as a screenwriter myself, maybe I can provide some insight. As Dino De Laurentiis once said: "Chop chop/head falls in lap/end of movie." In other words, once you bring your two leads together, it's over. You end with a wedding or a kiss (here we get both) and move on to your next gig. . .

Amy2, I agree with Mr. De Laurentiis, but my personal preference would have been to see Darcy ''express.. himself on the occasion as sensibly and as warmly as a man violently in love can be supposed to do'' in place of the wedding and kiss. Mr. Davis has done such a wonderful job of supplying dialog that was implied by J.A.. I would have loved to hear his efforts on that scene of denoument.

The look on CF's face is worth a million kisses. And they didn't kiss in the book, anyway, so what are you guys complaining about? ;)

The 'Look' scene - especially when Lizzy has gone to help Georgiana has to be my favorite. However, the flustered interaction when they meet after the swimming scene is a classic too. Then when he comes rushing back more properly attired - well! Two more of my favorite scenes are both at Pemberly when Lizzy is driving away and he stands looking after her.

No, they didn't kiss in the book. They merely wandered around totally oblivious of everything but each other for hours, thenrealised they had lost Jane and Bingley and rushed home to supper. I was waiting to see some long-distance shots of them,no dialogue,but obviously bubbling over with everything they had to say to each other.AND I wanted to see Lizzie being teased by her family for getting lost, the two of them individually bracing themselves before breaking the news to her parents, and Lizzie replyin to her Aunt Gardiner's letter about ponies in the park.IN Fact, the whole darned thing was much too short, and there should have been MORE, MORE, MORE of it.

"there should have been MORE, MORE, MORE of it.' I want to go to Brighton! ;-)

LOL; Joan, too. (Superb use of Austen text) Anne 3, some months ago I used exactly this quote for exactly the same purpose, and was universally contradicted! Joan, too Not by me, you weren�t They could have given us more of that scene and when Eliza and Darcy talk about when they fell in love. Maybe the film footage is there and just wasn't included (wishful thinking I know but I must dream) and will be included in a directors edition of the videos. Karen Ooh yes if we wish hard enough it can come true. I wonder occasionally if Simon Langton takes bribes... Anna LOL the kiss seemed completely out of character. Would such a man kiss even his wife in public? I've always imagined someone key in screen writing had to rush off to another job. Elaine Exactly my own feelings. I feel a bit embarrased to see them do something so common... my personal preference would have been to see Darcy ''express.. himself on the occasion as sensibly and as warmly as a man violently in love can be supposed to do'' in place of the wedding and kiss. Mari I absolutely agree if you have to choose. As a matter of fact I tried to visualise this back at the old P&P2 board. Holding hands and talking tenderly and maybe one kiss on some place proper like the wrist inside, where the heartbeat is... Ann2

I give up. Have been trying to edit the above answer for too long now. Ann2

from Ann: I still am partial to the first time Darcy visits Lizzy alone at Hunsford. I love all Darcy's visits to Hunsford for his eyes. His pupils are tremendously dilated with attraction (a look that guarantees my unswerving attention) as he sits across the room, stuck hearing "collinspeak" and watching cousin Col. Fitzwilliam charming his Lizzie. And yes, that first visit alone to Hunsford again shows him dark-eyed with longing, whenever he dares glance up from his hat on his knees or the surrounding decor.

"There should have beem MORE MORE MORE of it" I totally agree with you. A scene with Darcy going up to Elizabeth and whispering in her ear " Your father wants to speak with you" before she went to see her father would have been a great comfort indeed.

I wonder if they ran out of time to film more at the end. I know they were short on time on the day they filmed the second proposal scene (they had had bad weather and everything was put off until the end). But I believe "Making of" says that they managed to complete everything. Davies might have been right about ending a movie right after the payoff, but his Y chromosome might have made him mistake what the payoff was! It was not Lizzy and Darcy finally getting together, but seeing them together secure in the affections of the other, both behaving naturally together for the first time since they met..

More more more... We the people of this BB, faithful JA/P&P/P&P2 admirators, demand a proper conclusion, a full review of the script and an all new 1 hour 7th episode depicting the above mentionned most important missing scenes. To wait 5 3/4 hour for this, which was very agreable (not to say tolerable), but certainly NOT what I was expecting/imagining. A man violently in love would have done better, Script, Script, please... Should I say unsatisfying? To be blunt, a cheap conclusion for this kind of wonderful work. There, I said it. Who else will, like me, rerun the same scene over and over from Emma's video (coming in March)? Tell me if I'm wrong, but there was no kiss in Emma's book either, no? and what did they do with it? Ahhh! Blissfull

When I watched Emma - only twice so far - I had some thoughts about how they made the absolute most of every second under those trees. Did they maybe learn from women around the world complaining about the restricted P&P2 ending ?

I agree with MORE, MORE, MORE! My first attempt at more, more, more was to find other Colin Firth films, but that led nowhere. The above proposed petition is perhaps the only solution. Could we also give CF some direction in choosing future roles? My heart will stop upon viewing him as a befuddled father of seven.

I agree that there was a "better wrap it up quality" to the end of P&P2. A _little_ denoument after the climax would have been nice, right?

a lot would have been even better...

I found this comment on Ms. Ketchell's home page, found by following links in the PP2 BB comment ''Kissing Colin or Mr. Darcy'' Debra Ketchell's Comments: ''Sue Birtwistle was right. On first viewing, I did not think Firth's portrayal was the quintessential Darcy being a long time fan of Fay Welton's 1979 BBC production with David Lintoul as Darcy. After reading the novel again and a second viewing of the 1995 BBC production, I think Colin Firth has captured both the "pride" and the vulnerability of Darcy. That the scriptwriter did not see fit to end the production with the cynical Austen wit, but rather a sacchrine double-wedding shot is unfortunate. A more impertinent ending between Darcy and Elizabeth would have been more effective and original.'' Couldn't say it better myself.

I demand a rewrite. At least one more tape is necessary to rectify this egregious oversight.

Yeah. It would have been nice if they had given us just 10-15 minutes more. And here so much excessive screentime is devoted to something like THE ROCK and that horrible mini TITANIC. Makes ya wonder. . .

Perhaps I tred where only angels dare, i.e., a Lady's discussion group, but my sentiments will not be repressed. I regret very much the short shift given to Chapters 58, 59, and 60. Elizabeth's and Darcy's intimate conversation after the second proposal, Elizabeth's and Jane's sharing of their happiness for half the night, Bingley's expressive hand shake with Elizabeth, the delightful and tender conversation between Elizabeth and her father have all been given short shift. And we can only imagine with hat pleasure we could watch the scene at the Lucas lodge or even better all the delightful scenes that are suggested in the Wrap-Up. But, then, since I know none of the particulars, I may judge too hastily.

Perhaps I tred where only angels dare, i.e., a Lady's discussion group, but my sentiments will not be repressed. I regret very much the short shift given to Chapters 58, 59, and 60. Elizabeth's and Darcy's intimate conversation after the second proposal, Elizabeth's and Jane's sharing of their happiness for half the night, Bingley's expressive hand shake with Elizabeth, the delightful and tender conversation between Elizabeth and her father have all been given short shift. And we can only imagine with hat pleasure we could watch the scene at the Lucas lodge or even better all the delightful scenes that are suggested in the Wrap-Up. But, then, since I know none of the particulars, I may judge too hastily.

Donald, Thanks for considering us ladies. I daresay you will encounter some gentlemen here, too. I also believe you will not find a one who disagrees with your sentiments.

Thank you, Donald. For thinking that I could be a lady. And for proving that X and Y chromosmes can think alike.

I really thought that the wedding scene was quite gratuitous. JA novels never describe the wedding or for that matter, JA would never use the word fornication. It makes me belive that the makers of this broadcast felt that women are the ones who will be watching this, thus we MUST put in a wedding. I would have much preferred maybe just them leaving the church as in S&S or Emma, and take the time that the wedding took up to show more of the courtship or scenes of what happened to each character as the ook explains.

I rather liked the Wedding -- it was a nice wrap-up, the way they panned the cast of characters -- kind of a final farewell to all of these people. And wasn't the very goal of the whole book the achievement of this (most felicitous) event?

Good point, Amy2.. Have to always reduce stories to the ridiculous: Everybody worried about marriage in the beginning, get married in the end, things happen in between.

"JA would never use the word fornication." Probably not, however the priest's words during the ceremony are chapter and verse from the marriage liturgy of the time. And I thought it very clever how and when the camera focused on the various characters (both present at and absent from the ceremony) during the various parts of the text of the liturgy.

Joan, too: I always liked the way the camera panned to different characters during the wedding ceremony, especially to Lady C and Anne when the priest said "for the procreation of children" and to Lydia and Wickam for the fornication part, and finally to Darcy and Lizzie when he got to the "help and comfort" part. They were to be the best suited and happiest of all the couples shown to that point, IMHO.

I find little fault with the wedding ceremony, which I rather like, but with the quick transition from Elizabeth's (greatly abbreviated) talk with her father to the wedding ceremony. It would have been, indeed, a great pleasure to see some scenes from their courtship period. Here we could enjoy seeing their transition from two young people who showed little or no feelings towards each other to two young people who showed their very deep affection for each other.

I'm with Donald. Just to give us some assurance that their marriage is going to be as great as their courtship.

I agree with Donald and Amy2. Another hour would have been fine. Then they could have included the second walk (which I sorely missed,) the evening at Longbourn when Darcy tells Lizzie her father wants her, the full version of that meeting and then Lizzie telling her mother of the engagement. But lacking all that, I think they were right in finishing with the wedding rather than carrying on after that had taken place. It would have been anticlimactic to see Mrs. Bennet visiting Netherfield and talking about Mrs. Darcy, etc.

Well, Davies gave us a typical Hollywood Ending: A double wedding, and freezeframe on a kiss. That's fine for most romances, but the quality of this production was so fine it definitely left you wanting something more.

As I see it the double wedding was in the book,so why not. If not the wedding as the Fine could it end with Lizzie having her first child. Of course with many of the before mentioned missing scenes. I would have liked to have seen them happy together at Pemberely.I must say I never really watch the ending because I hate to see it end.

I wish they had just included the scenes in Austen at the end of P&P2. Then we would have gotten at least the logical continuation of the romance after Darcy proposes, and Eliabeth tells him _why_ he fell in love with her.

I loved Inko's comment - after Lizzy talks with her Dad there is another hour of film. It makes me tingle just thinking about it. In this hour we need to include the scenes that amy2, donald and others have mentioned (chapters 58-60). As I was watching the last hour of P&P2, I giggled to myself visualizing Mrs. Bennett being made speechless by the fact that Darcy was her son-in- law. Oh how I wish they had included those scene for the viewing public (or just us BB folks).

My fantasy is that there's a laserdisc version out there somewhere, just waiting to be released, with a "Making Of" track and all of these "missing scenes."

" I giggled to myself visualizing Mrs. Bennett being made speechless by the fact that Darcy was her son-in-law. Oh how I wish they had included those scene for the viewing public (or just us BB folks)." Yes. we could show Mrs. B. sitting on her chaise lounge with a surprized look on her face, her mouth open in a perfect "O", and no words coming out at all. Meantime, the servants could be shown preparing supper, the girls playing horseshoes, E & D strolling about the grounds, Mr. B. sipping wine and reading a book, and still Mrs. B. sits perfectly still. Finally she begins to fidgit and bless herself. Activity around her continues. Then she springs to her feet. "Where is Hill? fetch her this instant!" Then she hurries out onto the grounds, finds E & D and pulls E aside, wispering energetically in her ear while E alternately looks at the ground and at D with a supressed smile. Mrs. B keeps trying to smile and look friendly to Mr. D but is too afraid of him to address him. Then she hurries away. D looks questioningly at E. E smiles and says, "Sir, my mother would like to know what your favorite dish is."

You don't have to wish. You just did it Katy.

Yes Katy! That was an exquisite scene you just created!

Very nice, katy! Could Darcy perhaps overhear little snippets of conversation regarding "pin money" and "Special licenses"? ;-)

Oh, bravo, Katy, bravo!

Katy has a very good imagination. Along that line, whenever I read Chapter 61, which I always do after watching the conclusion of P&P2, I often imagine how fascinating a scene could be written about the 21-yr-old Mrs. Darcy as she greets her husband's Aunt, Lady Catherine at Pemberly. I realize the sequel "Presumption..." touches upon this, but I agree with the reviewer that it is a shallow book. Such a scene could bring out very tastefully the strong love between a husband and wife who have totally co mitted themselves to each other.

Katy! Get back on that missing scenes thread and START WRITING, this instant! Donald you have hit the proverbial nail on the head when you say "I often imagine...." So do I. Austen's characters do have a life of their own, do't they?They keep jumping out at me from all dark corners, invading my sleep,interrupting my housework..... My current obsession is wondering how Darcy would cope with a pregnant, crotchety Lizzie. Any how he would deal with parenthood

how Darcy would cope with a pregnant, crotchety Lizzie. or how a pregnant Lizzy would cope with a neurotically anxious Darcy?

Can't you just see him pacing about in total anguish while Lizzy is in labor, knowing the probability of her dying in child birth. It would be so hard for him to sit and wait, and not run up to be with her!

I could see Lizzy as a really great mother, with her sense of exuberance and fun. I wonder if Darcy could relax enough to be a good father?

. . . . wonder if Darcy could relax enough to be a good father? I'm sure he could. He was such an affectionate brother.

Anne3: " He was such an affectionate brother." Well, I always say that they who are affectionate brothers as children, grow up to be affectionate fathers!

That's true. He did take prodigious good care of Miss Darcy!

You are probably right. But I think that he might spoil his daughters rotten, and be very strict on his sons.

All your comments above have given me a good idea of what may be included in my Romance Under the Elms (final booklet version)for your reading pleasure. (See Topic 43 for excerpts)

Ann, what a bittersweet image...the danger of Lizzie dying in childbirth coupled with the joyful anticipation of a little "Larcy" (or "Dizzy"!)...I can just picture Mr. Darcy, dissheveled, panting, pacing....ooooh, you're giving me chills! And to Ann2, from way back in this topic, yes - the Emma people packed plenty into the proposal scene, did they not? My friend Rima once asked, in jest, "Did they really KISS like that back then? Gives new meaning to the oft-quoted saying, "Nothing is new under the sun"...! ;}

I was struck by the more casual attitude to romance in Paltrow's EMMA, as opposed to P&P2. Frank Churchill is kissing everyone's hand all over the place; Mr. Elton is all over Emma in the carriage proposal scene, etc. I wonder which was a more accurate reflection of Austen's day: the strict propriety of P&P2, or the more relaxed attitude of EMMA.

Yes, have been wondering the same thing myself (this is strictly a research topic; am working on a sequel chapter with Col. Fitz) ;)

For some time I have been bothered by what seems to me to be a major inconsistancy between Andrew Davies' screen play of P&P and Jane Austen's masterpiece. In the novel, for 38 chapters, we read of Elizabeth's growing dislike of Darcy, and Darcy's growing affection for Elizabeth. Then, starting with Chapter 46 (after four change-of-heart chapters) we read of Elizabeth's growing love for Darcy ("..never had she honestly felt that she could love him..", and "..she was convinced that she could have been happy with him.."); and Darcy's "sinking" affection and regard for her ("..it is improbable that they should ever see each other again on such terms of cordial ty.." and "..there seemed a gulf impassable between them.."). In Davies' screen play, however, Elizabeth's growing love for Darcy is so underplayed that as late as the bedroom scene (following the news of Lydia's impending wedding) she has yet to determine her feelings toward him. At the same time, by including the scenes of Darcy's trip to London and search for Lydia, the screen play removes any doubt of Darcy's continued affection for Elizabeth. My question: Why did Davies think this simplication of the plot necessary? Personally, I much prefer Jane Austen's version. The suspense introduced by the apparent reversal of feelings of both Elizabeth and Darcy heightens my interest in the later part of the story.

Donald, I am certain there is more to it, but one aspect must be to hold audience attention over a six week or 3 day period. Why tune into part 5 if the trend is already headed toward boy got girl in part 3?

as late as the bedroom scene (following the news of Lydia's impending wedding) she has yet to determine her feelings toward him. Donald, I always interpreted these scenes as Elizabeth's inability to verbalize her feelings. She has realized, by that time, that her feelings have undergone a material change, but she is not yet able to admit this to herself or her sister. Perhaps I am reading into the scenes what I know to be there from the book. I would prefer to think, however, that the feelings are there, but she has yet to find the words.

Apparently the one scene in the Paltrow Emma which was totally anachronistic and erroneous was Frank Churchill putting his hand on Jane Fairfax's shoulder (gasp!) as she is playing piana and he is singing a duet with her at the party at the Coxes (? been a while, may not be remembering it exactly right).

Apparently the one scene in the Paltrow Emma which was totally anachronistic and erroneous was Frank Churchill putting his hand on Jane Fairfax's shoulder (gasp!) as she is playing piana and he is singing a duet with her at the party at the Coxes (? been a while, may not be remembering it exactly right). I Think it was Emma's shoulder, but I was shocked, SHOCKED!

ENFJ-- still around? Come to Pemberley??? ;-)

In Davies' screen play, however, Elizabeth's growing love for Darcy is so underplayed that as late as the bedroom scene (following the news of Lydia's impending wedding) she has yet to determine her feelings toward him. At the same time, by including the scenes of Darcy's trip to London and search for Lydia, the screen play removes any doubt of Darcy's continued affection for Elizabeth. Donald, I think the explanation is the difficulty of dramatizing someone's thought processes. Austen goes to great length to show E's gradual change of heart, but it is all done by description or interior monologues. In dramatizing this, Davies really only had two choices: to have E discuss her feelings with someone or to have her verbalize her feelings in a voice-over. We know that he hated the static nature of the latter (that's one reason why this version is so lively, the action is never broken up by soliloquies or long letters), and as far as discussion goes, her only confidante was Jane, for whom the whole Bingley business made the subject verboten. It's true that this aspect of the book was one they couldn't really capture on film, but they had some good substitutions anyway. The famous Look exchanged between E &D at Pemberley showed perfectly how much their relationship had changed. And E's agitation at any mention of D's name, her anxiety about seeing him again, showed us her feelings pretty well. As far as D's feelings go, I'm not sure I understand you. His eagerness to introduce E to Pemberley clearly shows that he still loved her, and the lines you quoted are E's beliefs about what D might be thinking, not what he actually thought. It's true that the scenes of D as "avenging angel" removed any suspense we might feel if we shared E's belief that no respectable man would ever want anything to do with the Bennets after L's elopement. But in the series, D's love was so obvious that I guess they hought that there wouldn't be that suspense anyway.

"In Davies' screen play, however, Elizabeth's growing love for Darcy is so underplayed that as late as the bedroom scene (following the news of Lydia's impending wedding) she has yet to determine her feelings toward him. At the same time, by including the scenes of Darcy's trip to London and search for Lydia, the screen play removes any doubt of Darcy's continued affection for Elizabeth." This is why we shouldn't have been so hard on Mike. Looking only at P&P2, there is lots of room for misinterpretation of Lizzy's motives!

"Looking only at P&P2",and that is what made me read the book. There was so much I wanted to know.

]Looking only at P&P2, there is lots of room for misinterpretation of Lizzy's motives! that's why I thought (and still think) there was no point in discussing it further with some-one who had not and said he would not read the book.

You all have made some excellent points. I too believed that every time Jane asked Elizabeth whether she cared for Darcy & wished him to renew his affections & when she answered: "I don't know," she was just having trouble verbalizing her growing feelings. Also, Henry -- Mr. Elton in the Paltrow EMMA _repeatedly_ takes Miss Woodhouse on the shoulder at a party. I was actually kind of shocked to see it, along with Frank Churchill kissing everyone's hand.

Kissing hands was allowed in some social situations... I think the only times a poor fellow actually got to touch a girl was when he helped her into or out of a carriage, on or off a horse, walked arm in arm with her, kissed her hand, or danced with her.

H.C. tells us: I think the only times a poor fellow actually got to touch a girl was when he helped her into or out of a carriage, on or off a horse, walked arm in arm with her, kissed her hand, or danced with her. Mary, enough of that concerto! Play us a reel!

Dear Ann3, thank you for your long and informative answer to my question. As to Darcy'c "sinking" affection and regard for her, I am taking at face value Elizabeth's introspections. By asking this question, you have made me aware that I am experiencing the story, not surprisingly, through Elizabeth, i. e., I do my best to temporarily shut out what I already know will happen. Apparently, I use this technique to maintain my continued enjoyment in reading the novel. Like evryone else, I have nothing but praise for Davies' change-of-heart scene at Pemberly. Only, I focus on Elizabeth's smile. It is undoubtedly one of the tenderest and most romantic scenes, I have seen on the screeen. Finally, I add that my interest in P&P is purely for enjoyment. I spend too much of my workday life on scholarship to do otherwise.

H.C.: Would it have been acceptable for Mr. Elton, a clergyman, to keep tapping Emma on the shoulder repeatedly at a dinner party? (Not just a gentle rap -- he was practically knocking her over in the film!) And speaking of hand-kissing: It's interesting that the only male I can think of who pantomines this is P&P2 is the odious Mr. Hurst.

]And speaking of hand-kissing: It's interesting that the only male I can think of who pantomines this is P&P2 is the odious Mr. Hurst. I thought Bingley was on his way to kiss Jane's hand when he and Darcy visit after Bingley and Jane are engaged and just before Bingley suggests a walk. The comera cuts to Darcy, but it looks to me as Bingley has every intention of kissing Jane's hand.

Bingley, the hand-kisser; he also kisses Georgiana's hand in the imagined scene when Jane is reading Caroline's letter that they have left Netherfield for London, and that she 'dares to hope that she will be calling her sister'.

H. C. wrote: //Frank Churchill putting his hand on Jane Fairfax's shoulder (gasp!) as she is playing piana and he is singing a duet with her // *Gasp* indeed, I could not believe my eyes when I saw this, but maybe they wanted to imply that Frank was not always thinking of propriety (He had bougth her that pianoforte...) //only times a poor fellow actually got to touch a girl was when he helped her into or out of a carriage,...// What was your reaction to the manner in which Captain Wentworth assisted Anne Elliot into Admiral Crofts vehicle? Was there not some reason to exclaim:Hands off...? (Referring to Amanda and Ciaran version of Persuasion.)

The touch in Persuasion more more a part of the story than the touch in Emma. So, no. No reason to exclaim, complain or any other lame.

//No reason to exclaim, complain or any other lame.// I did not mean that *I* recent the tender manners of Captain Wentworth's. Just that someone in the company migth have reacted *if* they had noticed it. Maybe this belongs to propriety topic?

I guess Darcy was a little too stiff & reserved to indulge in this habit?

Kissing ladies hands, and 'smoldering' are not compatible. Olivier's version offered us that gallantry; for CF's it would have been out of character. Unless, of course, the story had expanded on their courtship after Lizzy accepted him. Now, there is a real possibility...except I have read the creative writings on the Firth page and there Darcy whizzes right past the 'hands' stage. Very romantic, reading about how all the 'smoldering' comes out now that they have both fallen in love.

Mary C., you are absolutely right -- no smoldering Byronic hero would stoop to kissing ladies' hands!

Nevertheless in the P&P2 version, his did make the most of the moment when he went to the inn in Lambtom and four Elizabeth so distressed. He touched her arm to assist he to her chair, then he hovered over her, then he touched her arm with both of his hands (and appeared a bit reluctant to let her go when she told him she was fine. Even in the book you can imagine something similar is going on because Elizabeth's knees "trembled under her" and she was "unable to support herself". If he was concerned enough to hang out with her while the servant went for the Gardiners, then I would hope he didn't just stand there like a lug with his hands behind his back.

] He touched her arm to assist he to her chair, then he hovered over her, then he touched her arm with both of his hands (and appeared a bit reluctant to let her go when she told him she was fine. __ The little grunting sound that accompanied these ministrations was very tender.

When else had they actually touched up to this point? The dance at Netherfield; when he handed her into her carriage; anything else?

Such discipline that Darcy displays in his courtship of Elizabeth is to be admired even if, to most of us, it seems too difficult . It surely is an example of courtship where the two young people's virtues are stronger than their passions.

Yes, it is, Donald. And I, for one, think it is absolutely exciting. It makes the moments of a little touching and tender looks all that more adorable. And Amy, I can't think of any other time they touch. Although as long as I have read the book (over 20 years), I had always thought that after Darcy proposed the second time he pounced her. "The happiness which this reply produced was such as he had never felt before, and he expressed himself on the occasion as sensibly and as warmly as a man violently in love can be supposed to do. Had Elizabeth been able to encounter his eyes, she might have seen how well the expression of heartfelt delight diffused over his face became him..." But I guess at that time that is doubtful. Just when was it acceptable to kiss back then? Was is not OK once you were engaged? Does anybody know the real answer? So do you think Darcy kissed Elizabeth before the wedding?

Yes, it is, Donald. And I, for one, think it is absolutely exciting. It makes the moments of a little touching and tender looks all that more adorable. And Amy, I can't think of any other time they touch. Although as long as I have read the book (over 20 years), I had always thought that after Darcy proposed the second time he pounced her. "The happiness which this reply produced was such as he had never felt before, and he expressed himself on the occasion as sensibly and as warmly as a man violently in love can be supposed to do. Had Elizabeth been able to encounter his eyes, she might have seen how well the expression of heartfelt delight diffused over his face became him..." But I guess at that time that is doubtful. Just when was it acceptable to kiss back then? Was is not OK once you were engaged? Does anybody know the real answer? So do you think Darcy kissed Elizabeth before the wedding?

] So do you think Darcy kissed Elizabeth before the wedding? Yes!

I agree whole-heartedly with Anna, I am sure there was plenty of snogging going on before the wedding! *sigh* :-)

Agree, agree -- and on the day of the Darcy's second proposal Bingley suggested going for a walk because he wanted to be alone w/ Jane (and they lagged behind, rather than going on ahead), so I am sure that they found some private moments as well.

For an account of one of those private moments, make a visit to the Creative Writings on the Firth page and read the two chapters called 'Eliza and Darcy take a Second Walk'. Verrrry romantic!

Thanks for the tip, Mary.

Mary: I went to the Creative Writings on the Firth page last night and I did not see these two chapters! Can you give me a little more direction? I saw a lot of Pride and Prejudice, the Mucial, but not the Second Walk.

Wouldn't the walled garden (where Elizabeth has her confrontation with Lady Catherine) have made a terrific spot for a bit of snogging? Just duck in and head for that lovely out-of-sight (of the house) corner!!!

No doubt about it, Margaret!

]Sharon: "Mary: I went to the Creative Writings on the Firth page last night and I did not see these two chapters! Can you give me a little more direction? I saw a lot of Pride and Prejudice, the Mucial, but not the Second Walk." Sharon -- instead of Creative Writings, click on More Colin and then click on Scenes Left Out of P&P. Enjoy. : )

Yup, that "pretty sort of wilderness" could be the setting for something more pleasant than Lady Catherine!!

Yeah, but you have two couples competing for that spot.

Sharon: Yeah, but you have two couples competing for that spot. yeah, but they're sisters, they are used to sharing! ;-)

Cheryl -- will Lizzie & Jane share only the lovely space, or do you envision them sharing more?! (a menage a quatre would not be quite proper, would it?) ;-)

]yeah, but they're sisters, they are used to sharing! ;-)

Had I ever so much as suspected that Cheryl would tangent off into this group idea, I should never have invited her to bathe with me and Mr Darcy.

]Had I ever so much as suspected that Cheryl would tangent off into this group idea, I should never have invited her to bathe with me and Mr Darcy. Amy, this shouldn't come as a total surprise to you. And just how big is that tub, anyway?

Maybe they can all go to Bath and luxuriate in the hot tub together!

Yeeaaahhh, Amy!

Come on in Myretta. It is a pond-sized tub.

Just coming on this thread, but couldn't believe the omission of the fencing scene in favorite P&P2 scenes ( I shall conquer this!) Ladies, he was WET! I agree that the end was anticlimactic and I expected more also. The kiss was out of place, and it appeared that Elizabeth initiated it. HORRORS in those days. Pretty sad if it was the first snog.

' Pretty sad if it was the first snog. ' If it was, that is probably why SHE initiated it!

]If it was, that is probably why SHE initiated it! a palpable hit!

I still belive that the fencing scene shows his struggle to overcome his 'ungentlemanly behavior'. When they come to the second proposal he tells her that he knew she though him devoid of every human feeling. In the book they go on to discuss their feelings in the interim, after the rejected proposal (on his side) and the letter (on her side), and he says; ``My object then,'' replied Darcy, ``was to shew you, by every civility in my power, that I was not so mean as to resent the past; and I hoped to obt in your forgiveness, to lessen your ill opinion, by letting you see that your reproofs had been attended to. How soon any other wishes introduced themselves I can hardly tell, but I believe in about half an hour after I had seen you.'' Surely he didn't expect to ever see her again, but he respected her (enough to ask her to marry him!), and after consideration, took her criticisms to heart and tried to improve his behavior, even though they had cost him (he thought) the woman he loved. Of course, if he had not done so, without doing it for the sake of winning her, Austen would not have brought them back together. His improvement had to be 'disinterested' in order for him to earn his 'reward'. This is one speech that Austen actually wrote that I would dearly have loved to have heard our CF deliver! Especially the last sentence... how sweet!

'and tried to improve his behavior, even though they had cost him (he thought) the woman he loved.' Ahhhaawwwwww! He is so CUTE!

Mari, you may be right, but I still think the line: "I shall conquer this!" refers to his passion for Lizzie.

Yes, Amy2, if he was talking about changing his behavior, he would have said something different than his passionate "I shall conquer this!" Something more bland, like "I can improve my character. I can, I can!" Nope, I think he might have been thinking about a cooling dip in that pond about then, not how to be a better person.

My interpretation of Darcy's line: "I shall conquer this!" agrees with Amy2. It was my first impression January-96 and still is. I believe this would be the usual behavior of a man who has been turned down by a women. His pride would demand that he get over it and forget her. After all, there are plenty of other marriageable young ladies in his world. The fact that his feelings for Elizabeth remain so very strong (how else can you explain the dramatic change in his manners and amiability) leads me to believe that his love, not just his passion, for her is indeed very deep. So deep, that despite all his strong sense of pride, he is willing to humble himself before her.

My thoughts exactly Donald

Donald wrote: //believe that his love, not just his passion, for her is indeed very deep. So deep, that despite all his strong sense of pride, he is willing to humble himself before her. // Oh, yes and this is what makes him so precious to us! Is he not one in a thousand? No wonder our esteem in/of(?) him is so profound. To have all those inner qualities ...and on top of that, such an appearance to please the eye ;-) .

"I can improve my character. I can, I can!" LOL...if he had said that I think I would have tuned out.

I think the show would have played more like an episode of PILGRIM'S PROGRESS!

"I shall conquer this!" variations on a line's interpretation... -all the above, or -Darcy struggling to remove his fencing glove that sweat had glued to his palm, or -Darcy exercising valiantly to reduce the extra weight caused by his bingeing after Lizzy's rejection, or -Darcy debating which helping verb is correct to use in his sentence structure (Der Nutty Herr Professor strikes again...)

LOL France! Haven't seen you in a while, nice to have you back! ;-)

My favorite P&P2 romantic scenes: Above all, CF fencing-I shall conquer this! I shall! I also love the scene where they meet again at Pemberley and he asks her if she's pleased: Your good opinion is rarely bestowed and therefore more worth the earning. Cf's really turns on the charm here. AS well, I like the scene at Rosings Park when Elizabeth is playing the piano. We neither of us perform to strangers. Good look here too; Col Fitz knows he's intruding!

How much does Col. Fitzwilliam know of his cousin's feelings, do you think?

I think if Darcy confides in anyone about such things, it is with Fitzwilliam.

] How much does Col. Fitzwilliam know of his cousin's feelings, do you think? I've always wondered about that; I agree that Darcy would confide in the Colonel, if in anyone. I also get the impression that the Colonel knows Darcy better than most. He is slightly older, so doesn't look up to Darcy in the way Bingley and Georgiana do and they seem to have spent time together as boys. Colonel Fitzwilliam may well have noticed Darcy's confusion even if Darcy hadn't confided in him.

I agree with Anna. Col. Fitz does know Darcy better than just about anyone and they must have constant contact because of being co-guardians of Georgiana and co-executors of Mr. Darcy's will. Even if Darcy never said a word, I think Col. Fitz would see a difference in mood. And he did say "he had heard much" of Lizzie, so he must have suspected something!

From the book I did not get the impression that the good Colonel knew much of anything about Lizzie before meeting her. (The "I've heard much of you" line was not in the novel.) In fact, he seemed to be flirting a great deal with Lizzie, which would surprise me if he knew of Darcy's attraction.

re 143: I agree with Kathleen's impression of the book v P&P2; in the video I think Fitzwilliam suspected something before Rosings (maybe that was part of the reason they cut the bit about Fitzwilliam being prevented only by 'poverty' from going after Lizzy himself). I do think that Fitzwilliam would have suspected something after the first proposal in both the book and in P&P2.

Yes, Anna, that seems quite right -- the Colonel would have noticed that Darcy was a mess. Darcy was so upset about Lizzie's refusal, and all the things she said, I am certain he could not appear with complete composure on the trip w/ Col Fitzwilliam (to London?)

I don't think Darcy gives out details at all. He did not name names (Jane's) when he told Fitzwilliam about busting it up with Bingley. So he probably never mentioned Elizabeth all until they got to Rosings. At Rosings he could have warned Fitzwilliam off of Elizabeth though without letting on to his own interest in her by mentioning her lack of fortune. I can't decide who most likely told Fitzwilliam about Elizabeth - Darcy or Lady C.

Sharon - Based on the novel, either one but probably Darcy. I don't think Lady C. would have considered Lizzy noteworthy enough to mention to the Colonel.

Good points all! In the book DARCY'S STORY, the author makes Georgianna Darcy's confidante in matters of love, as opposed to the Colonel, which is an interesting choice. But I agree that Fitz _must have_ noticed Darcy's discomposure after Proposal #1 and thereafter. Just as Jane surely would have noticed Lizzy's if she hadn't confided in her!

But in the end of the book, Jane does not notice Lizzy! Jane never realises that Lizzy's opinion of Mr. D has changed until Lizzy tells her. She discusses it with Bingley and they decide it is impossible. Jane is not suspicious of other people's feelings, but takes them as they are openly given.

[ DARCY'S STORY, the author makes Georgianna Darcy's confidante in matters of love,] I am going to hold my comments on this one until everyone else has had a chance to read the book. [Jane never realises that Lizzy's opinion of Mr. D has changed until Lizzy tells her.] Very true, Ann. So if Elizabeth would keep the situation under wraps, Darcy is much more likely to. Even if probed, it is hard to imagine him sharing what is probably the most personally private, painful, and humuliating details of being turned down.

I agree that Darcy would not willingly discuss the events w/ his cousin. However, I do think that the good Colonel would notice that Darcy was under some emotional strain. He tells Elizabeth that Darcy has put off their departure date at least once, so he might start to put 2 and 2 together.

I think that Fitzwilliam was likely to notice Darcy's state of mind because they were together immediately after the proposal, when Darcy was still in a state of turmoil. Jane didn't see Lizzy until several weeks later, by which time she had gotten her feelings under control.

You all are probably right as far as the book is concerned. But in any of the P&P dramatizations, when anyone even mentions "Mr. Darcy" around Lizzy after Proposal #1, she acts like she's going to burst out of her skin! So I'm going to accord Jane the sensitivity of realizing that something is amiss if her own sister is acting so jumpy! I'm referring particuarly to when Lydia spills the beans about Darcy being the Best Man at her wedding. Listen to the way Ehle says: "Mr. _Darcy_?" And all of her agon zing about losing his good opinion in P&P2.

I'm with you Amy2, Jane must have suspected something, anything, Lizzy was way to obvious. But what strikes me though is that Jane looks like she just doesn't get it, no reactions, no questions, no implied allusions to anything. Only perhaps her slight smile when Lizzy says Darcy was there when she received news of Lydia's elopment.

Also, Jane's reaction when Bingley and Darcy return to Hertfordshire and call on the Bennet's. She has too much of a smile on her face if she still thinks Lizzy doesn't care for Darcy.

Jane was basically incapable of suspicion - and also, at the time of Bingley's return to Netherfield, much too preoccupied with her own feelings and emotions to be particularly observant of anyone else's.

[ So I'm going to accord Jane the sensitivity of realizing that something is amiss if her own sister is acting so jumpy!] In the book, what Jane did know was a) Elizabeth turned down the proposal; b) that Elizabeth was uncomfortable about having prejudged Mr. Darcy; and when Darcy was coming to Longbourn with Bingley, that Elizabeth was about to face the guy she turned down. Jane could have attrubuted Elizebeth's nervousness to these things.

Did Jane know that Lizzy had already bumped into Mr. Darcy at Pemberley? Or was everyone too caught up in the Lydia Fiasco at that point to mention it?

Yes, Lizzie told Jane. Jane's reply "Mr. Darcy knows of our troubles"? Lizzie "He happen upon me while I was reading your letter".

But I do not believe that Lizzy said this in the book. Lizzy tells Jane very little of what happened at Pemberley, because she does not want to mention Bingley's name. When Lizzy tells Jane that she & Darcy are engaged, Jane ends their dialogue saying, "But Lizzy, you have been very sly, very reserved with me. How little did you tell me of what passed at Pemberley and Lambton! I owe all that I know of it, to another, not to you." Then Lizzy shares the information about Darcy helping Lydia.

[I owe all that I know of it, to another, not to you.] I always thought this 'other' was Bingley, although it could have been Aunt Gardiner. Before this, Jane had said somthing to the effect of she and Bingley had talked of the possibility of an Elizabeth/Darcy combination, but had decided it not possible. What do you think?

I think Jane meant that she had heard about Lizzie being at Pemberley from Bingley after their engagement. Which would have led them to talk about Darcy and Lizzie, and Jane probably telling Bingley that Lizzie didn't care for Darcy and that it was impossible. She didn't see the Gardiners after her engagement and there was no mention of her writing to them, so I think JA intended us to believe it was Bingley who was this 'other'.

Yes, I agree that the 'other' is Bingley. In the second part of the novel (after Pemberley), Lizzy has no one to confide in and wrestles with her feelings for Darcy by herself.

I do like the fact that Jane serves as more of a confidante in P&PII than she does in the book. It makes Lizzie's struggles less lonely (and more dramatic).

Amy2, it would have been very boring if they hadn't made Jane Lizzie's confidante in P&PII--it would have meant Lizzie sitting by herself and talking to herself. That's where AD did such a good job of translating thoughts into talk. I liked it too.

Absolutely. We got to avoid all voiceovers (a pet peeve of mine).

Not all voiceovers are a Bad Thing. They can be used very effectively. Some examples that leap to mind: Regina Taylor's in I'll Fly Away - the voice of the adult "Kevin" in The Wonder Years - Claire Danes' and others in My So-Called Life - Scully's in last week's episode of X-files - but they can also easily be overused, and given the percentage of plot in P&P that took place in letters and private thinking, using voice over for these would result in a very static pro uction - and was one of the flaws in the screenplay in P&P1.

Not all voiceovers are a Bad Thing. They can be used very effectively. Some examples that leap to mind: Regina Taylor's in I'll Fly Away - the voice of the adult "Kevin" in The Wonder Years - Claire Danes' and others in My So-Called Life - Scully's in last week's episode of X-files - but they can also easily be overused, and given the percentage of plot in P&P that took place in letters and private thinking, using voice over for these would result in a very sta ic production - and was one of the flaws in the screenplay in P&P1.

Joan, too -- was the second posting the voiceover? ;=p

Yes, and I think it was read by James Earl Jones. I guess I was thinking of that horrific voiceover in BLADE RUNNER when Harrison Ford sounded as thrilled to deliver the lines as we were to hear them. And many bad & terrible sf films make use of this device; to wit, DUNE.

was the second posting the voiceover? ;=p hee hee hee - must have been... I cannot account for it otherwise. The Ghost Poster strikes again.

To those who love romance, help me. As I watch P&P2 for the umpteenth time, I am desparately searching for the romance in the dance between Lizzy and Darcy at Netherfield. When he asks her to dance, he seems anxious and even slightly pleasant. However, during the dance he is so severe! He only smiles ever so slightly when he asks Lizzy about walking to Meryton with her sisters. Most of his other responses are extremely sarcastic. For some reason in these scenes at Netherfield, he frightens me.

He makes me want to hit him over the head with a bat.

I was vexed with this scene as well, Karen and Kali. I wish they had included more of the novel here: " she made some slight observationon the dance. He replied, and was again silent. After a pause . . she addressed him a second time with 'It is your turn to say something now . . .' He smiled, and assured her that whatever she wished him to say should be said." Also, in the novel they have more of a conversation after Sir William interrupts them, including Darcy trying to make small talk (about books!). So he wasn't a complete stick/jerk at this point in the book. Ahh, well, I shall reread the book with visions of Darcy/Firth in my head.

But do you realise that this is first time they actually touch in P&P2? I mean admitedly she's wearing gloves, but they do get to hold hands...

[ but they do get to hold hands...] And after the dance, they hold hands as he escorts her to the side of the room - ooohhhh, aaaaahh! I think Davies probable means for us to see Darcys' manner two different ways at two different times. One way initially, when he asks her and they dance, and then in a new light much later, after we know he ardently admires and loves her. When we look back on it, we can then attribute his manner to being REALLY, REALLY nervous about approaching her (thus he does so hurriedly and stiffly - with his heart probably in his throat); and during the dance he just doesn't know HOW to begin a conversatio , and is a little afraid to (but all the while he is probable wracking his brains for something meaningful to say). When I look back on it, I really feel for the guy.

He also is torn between very much wanting to dance with her, and not wanting to. He is falling in love, but he doesn't want to be. That tension is acute during the dance.

He also is torn between very much wanting to dance with her, and not wanting to. He is falling in love, but he doesn't want to be. That tension is acute during the dance. Ann, I think your definition is closer to my feeling. Darcy can't stand to not be with her, but he is also very ambivalent about his feelings for her. I thought this scene showed that very well.

Karen: As I watch P&P2 for the umpteenth time, I am desparately searching for the romance in the dance between Lizzy and Darcy at Netherfield. I don't see much romance here either, but I do shudder deliciously at the erotic suggestion in this very formal dance. L & D are still battling it out, as they had earlier during Lizzy's stay at Netherfield, but their sparring is now shown in physical terms, and the sparks flying between this gorgeous, strong-willed man and woman make the dance sexier than any waltz would have been. Even though their relationship doesn't "progress" in this scene, I love the contrast between the way they join hands at th beginning and at the end: when they start, their gloved hands reach the camera at the same moment, and you think of drawn swords. At the end, Darcy extends his hand to Lizzy in such a gentle way, and she accepts it so quietly, that you know that there is going to be more of this in the future. As Sharon says, "ooohhhh, aaaaahh!" When he asks her to dance, he seems anxious and even slightly pleasant. However, during the dance he is so severe! I think we've discussed this before, but this is mostly Lizzy's fault. Even Davies's truncated dialog has Lizzy being deliberately pert and provoking. Poor Darcy didn't stand a chance.

Anne3 - "I think we've discussed this before, but this is mostly Lizzy's fault. Even Davies's truncated dialog has Lizzy being deliberately pert and provoking. Poor Darcy didn't stand a chance." I know she is provoking him but he is not amused. Even at Netherfield (before the ball), he would occassionally smile after he'd make a harsh remark. At the ball, he keeps rolling his eyes at everything she says. I have to agree with Kali's comment (about hitting him) and Kathleen's comment (following the novel more closely and have him nicer). If he were a bit nicer at times (flashing the camera a devilish, little grin and then go back to trying to be composed), I could have felt that he was tornup a out his feelings.

Rolling his eyes?

] He only smiles ever so slightly when he asks Lizzy about walking to Meryton with her sisters. __ I know this whole "On foot?" thing was not in the book. But it does fit Darcy. When Firth gives that little smile of amusement, I am torn between hating Darcy for ridiculing Lizzy, and somehow finding the amusement strangely exciting. Why should this be so?

Karen: I know she is provoking him but he is not amused. Even at Netherfield (before the ball), he would occassionally smile after he'd make a harsh remark. Expecting Darcy to be amused assumes that he should find Lizzy's raillery to be cute rather than annoying. In the book, everything is told through Lizzy's consciousness, so we find her remarks as adorable as she finds them herself. Remember, though, that she later learns how wrong she was, how unfair to Darcy and indulgent to herself. She says, "I meant to be uncommonly clever in taking so decided a dislike to him, without any reason. It is such a spur to one's genius, such an opening for wit to have dislike of that kind." If Darcy hadn't been so infatuated with her, he would have been quite justified in being annoyed at her constant verbal jabs. Darcy's smiles, in the book, were I think Austen's way of showing us his feelings, since she doesn't make us privy to them in any other way. In the film, Davies chose to show Darcy's feelings in other ways.

Regarding Mr. Darcy's smiles: In the book...when Lizzie is at Pemberly and sees Mr. Darcy's portrait, "and she beheld a striking resemblance of Mr. Darcy, with such a smile over the face, as she remembered to have sometimes seen when he looked at her."