introductions

Alright, guess it's time to stop "lurking" and jump in. After browsing a few sites, it seem's most opinion voiced is based on feel-good, arms length experience. I once had a conversation concerning the merits of recycling aluminum, trying to point out the fallacies of transporting soft drinks hundreds of miles into the bush, then shipping it all back out again to be recycled. He agreed but summed up with "but it feels like the right thing to do". Had an interesting lecture today - appears that clear cut l gging is actually beneficial to fish stocks in Alaska. Sounds counter-intuitive, doesn't it? Well, sometimes that happens when science runs up against emotion. I'd like to see discussion that involves 101 things that aren't so easy to do to save the earth, but may actually make a difference. Seperate the wheat from the fluff. My background- working for a resource agency for 13 years, living an "alternative" lifestyle for ten. Now I'm back in the city, attempting to update my brain. Possible topics? State of the world's fisheries, everybodies "green" these days, fix the jalopy or buy new, anthropomorphism, us versus themism,what? your not happy living in your cardboard hut while we surf the web? Any other ideas?

Reply to Bruce, I can't give you 101 suggestions to the issue, But I think that before we can start to say recyle this and that, don't use these product and so on until people start to wake up an realize that this place is on the way out. There is a good handful of people who are starting to do what needs to be done but when it comes done to it people arn't really prepared to make a change. I feel that the younger generation are realizing that they might well see the efects in their life time though many still don't seem to care or arn't prepared to make an effort. To cut a long story short I just feel people (not all) don't seem to give a damn. But just recycling isn't the answer but it's a start. Here in Australia I have noticed that quite a few company suppling things in recyclable containes do not make much of an effort to let the buyer know that he can recycle it. Heighten peoples awarness and hopefully we'll see a change.

Read some of the things mentioned in the 'save the planet' topic in the cultures conference. It really fits in with this thread.

Well, I suspect we don't need to worry about saving the Earth. The Earth has been here for billions of years (Carl Segan could say that better) and will no doubt continue for a good deal longer. Nothing as insignificant as the human race is going to destroy it, however, we might make it increasing difficult for that human race to survive. In the meantime, it's important not to jump to conclusions about what is or isn't good for the Earth or us. Scientifically unsound "green" practices may prove as devastating as anything so far observed. More often than not, "The solution to pollution is dilution."

What are some environmental issues in your neck of the woods? We have our beloved salamander and our Barton Springs.

I believe for the environmental movement to successfully protect the earth the art of open minded consultation has too be re-introduced and practised.

Not to mention negative population growth. WER

amen.

I'm all for the preservation of nature. However, when nature interferes with my life or livelyhood, then I have to look at just how important is this owl, salamander, or cave dweller. The salamander in Barton Springs Pool is a case in point. Thus far, cleaning the pool has not made the salamander extinct. What figment of who's imagination led people to believe that, continuing to clean the pool, as was done in the past would suddenly cause the immediate extinction of it.

careful Tim, you're beginning to sound like one of your abhorred politicians (Austin conference)

OOPS! I'll have to watch that. Then Again, if I'm the politician, it's not so bad, because then I get to take the money and run, instead of watching someone else do it.

They don't make tons of money. Many come from already wealthy families And many use their wellknown names to start or front companies If they're getting personally rich off of politics alone, they are probably embezzling!

I only have one thing to say to that: L BBBBBBB J L B B J L B B J L BBBBBBB J L B B J L B B J L B B J L B B J J LLLLLLLLLL BBBBBBB JJJJJJ

I would like regulars of this conference invite to visit the International Conflicts conference here on the Spring: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/InternationalConflicts/all This conference is dedicated to the disputes between groups all over the world, be that social, cultural, political or ethnical differences.

After a 30 years chemical exposure I certainly believe that we are destroying the human race.The earth will recover. I have 3 suggestions after 18 years of environmental action. We need a moratorium on harmful technology, science and chemicals. We need a national and international office for nature. Also we need to reverse the damage done by the past 50 years chemical exposure. No research is being done on low-level, long-term Toxic Substance Exposure. Most people in this country are damaged and do not kn w it.�Doctors are not dealing with this problem. While these suggestions may seem drastic we watched 65 of our neighbors and their children die from chemical exposure at an average age of 45. The parents died in their 40s and 50s. The children died in their 30s and 40s. We see no change in recognizing this problem and until we recognize it we can not solve it. Please respond either here or at steve389@yahoo.com Teri Naugler, Activist for social and environmental justice, Humantarian

Welcome Teri, what region of the country are you located? Are these problems particularly more intense where you live?

Hi, We are originally from Massachusetts but left there 12 years ago to save our lives. We have been in the Southwest and Mexico. There are problems everywhere. We are activists and get involved in different areas. We spent a year (1990) doing an environmental tour around the country and speaking to environmental groups, professors at universities studying frogs and sick fish etc. We are not connected and are seldom near universities so it takes time for us to reply. We will be here until Wednesday. The problems are serious as those of us in the movement do not have the money or the power to solve these problems. We spent about 4 months recently sending out 4500 e-mails to reporters, congress, governors, universities, scientists etc. on our 30 years of chemical exposure. We had about 25 replies. In the US we received a few nasty replies from men scientists. From Europe just a few pleasant replies. One from Russia and one from Japan. Also a few pleasant replies from women. We see the situtation as hopeless as it will probably take 50 years to turn things around. We believe this exposure is damaging everyone in the USA, especially our children who are most at risk. The only thing left for us to do is educate the public. We have signs on our vehicle and give out info to people. The only people who pay attention to our signs are activists, people who have been damaged and the scientists who hate what we are doing. Teri e-mail Steve389 @yahoo.com

Welcome! And how many are we, and is we originally a family-turned-movement?

Wonder how Teri's life saving mission is progressing?