{"conf": "art", "generated_at": "2026-04-26T08:00:02.954878Z", "threads": [{"num": 0, "subject": "", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 1, "subject": "introductions", "response_count": 124, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "eustacia", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (10:39)", "body": "Hi all. I would like to start by thanking Terry for allowing us to gather here and discuss our passion, Harrison Fisher. I think that he is one of the greatest illustrators. I love are in general. My favorite is Ameican Impressionism."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (19:11)", "body": "Welcome Emma, tell your folks to come on down."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Fisherman", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (19:53)", "body": "Hi current and future users.Thanks Terry for giving us a common place to gather.I am also a big fan of Harrison Fisher.I am also a big fan of quite a few other Illustrators of the early 1900's."}, {"response": 4, "author": "eustacia", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "Hi Jim. I am glad that you got my email. What other illustrators do you like to collect? Oh, about the Comsmo cover that I was going to color copy for you --- well because of copy right laws I will not be able to do it. Sorry. I took some magazines to have color copied for Carol and the guy there wouldn't do it for me. What did you but from Naomi? I just got her list today and all the goos stuff was already gone."}, {"response": 5, "author": "eustacia", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (20:01)", "body": "Hi Jim. I am glad that you got my email. What other illustrators do you like to collect? Oh, about the Cosmo cover that I was going to color copy for you --- well because of copy right laws I will not be able to do it. Sorry. I took some magazines to have color copied for Carol and the guy there wouldn't do it for me. What did you but from Naomi? I just got her list today and all the good stuff was already gone."}, {"response": 6, "author": "eustacia", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (20:06)", "body": "Sorry. I didn't mean to send that twice. I was trying to fix my spelling mistakes and I notice that I still typed some thing wrong. Oh well. Does Joanne have access to the internet? Why did you start collecting Fisher? I remember the day that I discover one of Fishers magazines (the cosmo cover of Sept 1925). I never knew that any thing so fantastic existed."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Fisherman", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (21:00)", "body": "Hi Susan,That's okay about the Cosmo. cover.I wish I knew more about the copy right laws.I wonder if there is still one on items that old?I was fortunate enough to be one of the first ones to respond to Naomi's letter.Ipurchased all the WW1 era magazine covers,mother/baby covers,and a few romantic covers.Joanne has access,but just through work.The first item that attracted me to Fisher was 'The Greatest Moments\" series.What are some of your fovorite images by him?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Fisherman", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (21:07)", "body": "HI Susan, Me again .Let's move future conversations to the Harrison Fisher area.What do you think?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (22:13)", "body": "Welcome Jim and Susan. Make yourselves at home!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (15:16)", "body": "Howdy. I'm sorry to confess I haven't a clue who Harrison Fisher is, but I'll sure check out that topic. I like art (duh) and thought I might see what you folks had to say. Are you all fabulous artists? I'm a quiet, at-home artist myself (not for public consumption). My latest craze is colored pencils, and I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a workbook or something for them...there are tons of books and classes for almost every other media but not these (occasionally a mention at the back of a charco l sketch book). Please help! I'm having fun but need guidance!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (23:43)", "body": "Check out Nikolaides book on drawing for openers."}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jun 23, 1998 (17:23)", "body": "Hi, I'm Riette. I work as an artist in Switzerland, but come from Namibia. Will that make a respectable introduction, Paul? Aubrey, if you're into colouring pencils, why not try any normal drawing course? They normally introduce colours after getting the dry stuff (proportion, balance, that sort of thing) over and done with. And then it becomes great fun and, because the lessons become more interesting altogether (what with all those colours to exite you), one's drawing improves rapidly over-all."}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jun 23, 1998 (17:24)", "body": "Oh, Jesus, I've just responded over a year too late!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jun 23, 1998 (17:24)", "body": "*smile* that's okay Riette... better late than never! And time is relative anyway... it's the year 2036 in some places!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jul  1, 1998 (22:43)", "body": "Not any more, I just reset the date."}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jul  2, 1998 (05:37)", "body": "How very reassuring - I would have been 62!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (00:09)", "body": "hey guys! just wanted to drop in a say hello and you guys are in for a treat with riette as your new hostess!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (01:22)", "body": "Thank you for the vote of confidence, Wolf!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (05:53)", "body": "Just set up riette with hostly powers here."}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (08:58)", "body": "??"}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (09:00)", "body": "Oh, I see!! There's a Kill and retire button. Thank you, Terry."}, {"response": 22, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (09:04)", "body": "hihi...time to install a flashy conference header, Riette!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (09:05)", "body": "or do whatever you see fit, Miss Hostess!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (12:24)", "body": "Patience, now! (need to wait till the kids are in bed before I can try an figure out what next . . . )"}, {"response": 25, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (17:12)", "body": "boy, do i understand that!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (17:27)", "body": "I seem to be the only computer bummer around here."}, {"response": 27, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (18:22)", "body": "you'll soon get used to it!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Jul  6, 1998 (00:12)", "body": "Uh, I didn't even know there was an art conference..."}, {"response": 29, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Jul  6, 1998 (01:25)", "body": "Don't worry, neither did I until VERY recently. It is very obscure, isn't it? But Mike has promised to help me fix that - as soon as I manage to figure out my scanner . . ."}, {"response": 30, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Jul  8, 1998 (15:23)", "body": "wow, riette, did you create that picture? cool!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Jul  8, 1998 (15:51)", "body": "It contains the different facets of all of you in it. The cat's head represents Stacey (she loves cats and is as alert) The body is (suppose to be) that of a Wolf - represents your funny, frolicking wolfie side. The face in the middle represents Terry, who is the central figure of the spring. The big eye represents Wer, for he never misses a thing. The smile has something to do with Jim's funny, and sometimes mysterious responses. The crazy colours represents Mike, as he is a very creative person with many different, colourful shapes floating around in his head. And the black and white background represents Autumn. She is always there, sometimes also in the background, but so essential with her fine sense of black and white, right or wrong - I have never seen her treat anyone unfairly here."}, {"response": 32, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Jul  8, 1998 (19:14)", "body": "how sweet of you!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jul  8, 1998 (23:18)", "body": "How *very* cool!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Jul  8, 1998 (23:19)", "body": "(*trying to suppress a giggle*) Which part is Jim?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (00:55)", "body": "The mouth!!! ha-ha!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (17:48)", "body": "WOW *BEAM* :-))"}, {"response": 37, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (17:52)", "body": "We're on at the same time!! So where did you come up with these little faces, Mike? :-))))))"}, {"response": 38, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (21:04)", "body": "ummm....just picked 'em up along the way, i guess"}, {"response": 39, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (01:21)", "body": "They're sweet. My favourite is the one that winks."}, {"response": 40, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (09:57)", "body": "for more smileys, Riette (they're also called emoticons...) try http://members.aol.com/bearpage/smileys.html"}, {"response": 41, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (10:52)", "body": "Thanks, muffin! I should be just about able to manage that."}, {"response": 42, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (14:01)", "body": "typing with your toes yet?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (14:50)", "body": "ha! NO! The fingers on the broken arm type okay, AND I've got four left on the other, so apart from the occasional pressing of keys with my tongue, I'm doing great!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (10:25)", "body": "For the first time in months I have completed a painting today which was utter, utter crap. I find that very disturbing, and pretty depressing. Even destroying it hasn't helped me feel better about it. What a pain."}, {"response": 45, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (11:17)", "body": "we all have off days. just try again!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (20:36)", "body": "Yea, even Mark McGuire doesn't hit a home run every time he comes to the plate."}, {"response": 47, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (20:51)", "body": "Throw it on the bonfire and say the hell with it! Try again tomorrow."}, {"response": 48, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (00:39)", "body": "I'm sure I will. Not very good at handling failure. BUT MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES AWAIT US: I have mailed a girl called, Susan, who came here twice just after the conference started. I have invited her back. Can you think of anyone else I could mail and invite?"}, {"response": 49, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (07:06)", "body": "You can check some conference userlists. You can groupmail them if you like."}, {"response": 50, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (07:16)", "body": "Cool! Okay, I'll do that."}, {"response": 51, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (13:37)", "body": "You'll have to make up a letter and send it to me for remailing to the ulist you specify (in other words, which conference ulist)."}, {"response": 52, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (00:45)", "body": "okay, I'll do that. And since you are more experienced, could you then check the letter, and add things that you think should be in there, please Terry?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (07:56)", "body": "Sure, cook it up and I'll do a taste test."}, {"response": 54, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (09:32)", "body": "Hopefully I'll be better at cooking up letters than food..."}, {"response": 55, "author": "sonja", "date": "Fri, Oct 16, 1998 (12:52)", "body": "Wow, girl, your conference looks awesome! Really awesome!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Oct 17, 1998 (01:14)", "body": "Thank you, deary! I've been horribly lazy though - I apologize. Just don't have the strenght to face art at the moment."}, {"response": 57, "author": "sonja", "date": "Sat, Oct 17, 1998 (07:13)", "body": "You'll be able to face it again at some point."}, {"response": 58, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Oct 17, 1998 (10:43)", "body": "riette, would you please tell me about the cd covers you're designing? i'd like to find them in the stores when they're released. who's the musician?????"}, {"response": 59, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Oct 18, 1998 (01:24)", "body": "That's really nice of you, Wolf, but I'm afraid they're only going to be released here. That's how provincial I am. The musician in a composer called, David H\ufffdnigsberg. He is having his 25th anniversary celebration. For this he had a cd done of some of his most important works, and it's going to come out in a limited edition of 200, hugely over-priced at SFr. 300-, big ego trip and all that. Anyway, so he asked some artists in Switzerland design and paint small, practical cd-covers - so that each cd ill have an original work or art as a cover. Yep, that's how low I've sunk."}, {"response": 60, "author": "sonja", "date": "Sun, Oct 18, 1998 (04:05)", "body": "Why don't you put the designs into your gallery topic to show everyone how low you've sunk?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Oct 18, 1998 (12:49)", "body": "riette, you're so silly. i think it's absolutely wonderful that you were selected! and you never know, there are lots of scouts out there. thanks for telling me who it is. if you don't want to or are not allowed to post the work here, that's ok. i can try and look the guy up via the internet. do you get a royalty or anything for each cd sold?"}, {"response": 62, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Oct 18, 1998 (21:29)", "body": "Really, are they available to the general public?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Oct 19, 1998 (02:59)", "body": "Only the general public who attend the celebrations! Another one of those artist things. He gives a big party for his friends - yet his 'friends' have to pay SFr. 300- to hear his music! Unbelievable. Wolf, I'll post the cover pictures as soon as I've got the work out of the way - it really nothing spectacular; one can't do much on such a small surface. I just built little round boxes, the size of a cd, lined the inside with felt to protect the cd, and now I'm doing little paintings on top. Some are older designs like 'the embrace', and others are new designs, which I will later turn into larger paintings. And yes, I get a small fee - not enough to make me any less pi$$ed off with myself..."}, {"response": 64, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct 19, 1998 (06:43)", "body": "Sometimes adversity, self imposed or external, makes you reach new heights."}, {"response": 65, "author": "sonja", "date": "Mon, Oct 19, 1998 (10:31)", "body": "That sounds very wise to me."}, {"response": 66, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Oct 19, 1998 (20:59)", "body": "well, it's a lot better than the \"offer\" you once had received, i'll tell you that! i don't understand why you feel badly about your decision to do these covers. i am in no way an artist in the way you are but i was completely floored at the amount of enthusiasm received for the design of the emblem i have yet to post. in fact, my big boss asked me if i wanted to design one for a higher group. i said, sure! no pay, just the satisfaction of knowing that i get to use my creativity and apply it somewhere. about your cd's, i didn't realize you were making the cd box too. i thought the covers were premade and all you did was the jackets inside the cd. i still think it will be wonderful and is a wonderful thing to do. i seriously doubt the shin-dig is for his true friends. these are just the people who want to meet and greet, see and be seen!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Oct 20, 1998 (01:11)", "body": "I know - I'm being unfair and stuck-up. It's just that the sort of thing that happened with the gallery boss, and then the idea at having to be at this celebration just to put a stupid signature on the cd-covers when people buy them; you know, like anyone could give a damn about Ri\ufffdtte Walton's stupid signature! It's just a big farce. The BUSINESS, the SHOW of art just takes all the love for it out of me. It sort of reminds me of a circus. What goes on in the tent - if you catch my drift. I don't t ink I have an artist's temperament. I think the ideal thing would be to get someone glamorous to impersonate me, and take the credit for my work, and who can take most of the earnings for all I care. That way I'd just be able to do my art, and leave the business of it up the person. I mean, I'm an artist, nothing more, and I hate the way one is expected to put oneself on display like a damned picture - like a thing. And more disturbing than that even, is the notion that this is what artists WANT. I m an, art is about ART, right? To GIVE something to people. Isn't that enough reason for practicing art? Why the big performance about it?"}, {"response": 68, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 20, 1998 (20:36)", "body": "Unless you're a performance artist or something. Which it wouldn't seem like you are, dear Ree! I admire your dedication to the purity of your art form."}, {"response": 69, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct 21, 1998 (03:43)", "body": "That is kind of you Terry. But I sometimes wonder if it isn't just another form of egotism. I just don't know anymore."}, {"response": 70, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Oct 21, 1998 (09:18)", "body": "i think egotism would be running around hob-knobbing with all the \"you got to know me to be famous\" people and hanging out at 500 a plate shindigs. you paint for the sake of painting. it brings you pleasure, you're good at it."}, {"response": 71, "author": "sonja", "date": "Wed, Oct 21, 1998 (10:19)", "body": "I agree with you, Wolf. I don't find you egotistical, Ri\ufffdtte - at least not in that respect."}, {"response": 72, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 21, 1998 (11:04)", "body": "I'll have to go along with Sonja and Wolfie."}, {"response": 73, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Oct 21, 1998 (18:26)", "body": "riette, we're not just saying this stuff. i don't think any of us would if we didn't believe it *hugs*"}, {"response": 74, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (03:44)", "body": "Thank you - that makes me feel a little better about myself. I sometimes think I'm a terrible, egotistical and unreasonable monster who does things just to get its own way - that is how the people who don't agree with me make me feel when they say stuff about me. I think I'm going to stop painting for exhibitions, do my studies, and write a book about art where I won't have to face anybody. I just get sick of being called 'wayward' or 'bad', because of my art. It's such a bore."}, {"response": 75, "author": "sonja", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (09:31)", "body": "You CANNOT stop painting because of this, Ri\ufffdtte. You will end up resenting yourself for giving up on something you're talented in, just because other people didn't like the way you saw the world. You can send all your pictures over to me even! I'd be ever so happy to take care of them for you!"}, {"response": 76, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (09:49)", "body": "no kidding. do not stop painting....you'd be stooping to their level girlfriend! and do write that book. tell all about the stuff you've gone through with these so-called art experts. who are they to judge what you see? a bunch of dorks, i'll tell you. paint for yourself, you'll be so much happier for it. and remember, no one can MAKE you feel anything. you are your master!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (10:10)", "body": "Add my voice to the chorus of \"don't stop\"s!"}, {"response": 78, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct 23, 1998 (01:20)", "body": "I'll try. I did have an interesting dream last night, and something seems to be happening."}, {"response": 79, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 23, 1998 (02:05)", "body": "And? And?"}, {"response": 80, "author": "sonja", "date": "Fri, Oct 23, 1998 (10:03)", "body": "She is working away, refusing to show me any of it...."}, {"response": 81, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Oct 23, 1998 (13:34)", "body": "Maybe for now but you'll get to see it first anyway..."}, {"response": 82, "author": "sonja", "date": "Sat, Oct 24, 1998 (11:59)", "body": "I never take anything for guarrantee with Ri\ufffdtte!"}, {"response": 83, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Oct 24, 1998 (12:46)", "body": "Nothing?"}, {"response": 84, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Oct 25, 1998 (01:32)", "body": "Silly! How horrible I must be!"}, {"response": 85, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (01:29)", "body": "Funny, you don't seem to be horrible."}, {"response": 86, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (04:32)", "body": "But can be at times...."}, {"response": 87, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (07:13)", "body": "Everyone has a bad day now and then. That doesn't make anyone horrible. The truely horrible people are those who refuse to allow for this."}, {"response": 88, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (01:36)", "body": "Speaking words of wisdom here! I never thought of it like that - but I really am very horrible sometimes; just so you know."}, {"response": 89, "author": "TIM", "date": "Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (04:45)", "body": "I'd have to see it to believe it. I have heard this litany before and the person involved was overstating the situation every time."}, {"response": 90, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (01:48)", "body": "Oh, ask anybody here - they'll tell you!"}, {"response": 91, "author": "TIM", "date": "Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (03:52)", "body": "Like I said, I'd have to see it to believe it."}, {"response": 92, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (22:12)", "body": "Tim, all you gotta do to see it is...attack her! It's done wonders for me!!!"}, {"response": 93, "author": "TIM", "date": "Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (23:40)", "body": "I would never do that. Riette is such a sweet person. Why in the world would I want to attack her. Anyway, I was raised not to do such a thing. I would irritate all the women in my family. They are really a formidible bunch. Seriously though. I really was raised not to attack women. While I was growing up, my mother did volunteer work. She worked in witness protection at the sheriff's department, so there were a lot of very big men with guns around to reinforce the lesson."}, {"response": 94, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (02:05)", "body": "That's a gorgeous response, Tim. How comforting to know that men like that still exist. Wer, you never attacked me! (Did that all by myself!)"}, {"response": 95, "author": "TIM", "date": "Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (03:49)", "body": "It's probably out of fashion, now, but that is the way I was raised. And I was only about half kidding about the formidible women. One of my sisters was attacked by her husband, with the idea of beating her up. What an idiot. my sister has knocked out a horse with one punch. she had him served with divorce papers, right after he came out of intensive care. she was bruised pretty badly. He had six broken ribs, one of which had punctured his right lung, a shattered jaw, fractured ulna--right arm, fractured skull, and a broken neck."}, {"response": 96, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (08:25)", "body": "that's too bad that your sister had to go thru that, but that idiot sure got what he deserved. i have four younger sisters, and with the exception of smacking each other around when we were little, i was also raised in the very Mexican tradition of total respect for the princesses!"}, {"response": 97, "author": "TIM", "date": "Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (12:32)", "body": "I was talking about women outside the family. Were I to raise a hand to one of my sisters, I'd have been killed, literally. Some things inhuman, should not be allowed to live."}, {"response": 98, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (23:57)", "body": "\"Some things inhuman, should not be allowed to live.\" I couldn't agree more..."}, {"response": 99, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (01:31)", "body": "My brother is a real gentleman too, but we annoy him so much sometimes, then he goes and fetches a rope, and ties us together, back to back!"}, {"response": 100, "author": "TIM", "date": "Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (01:54)", "body": "Sometimes i've been tempted to do that to my sisters. The thought of what would happen to me if I did, let it remain just a temptation"}, {"response": 101, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Nov 21, 1998 (01:12)", "body": "ha-ha! My mum also used to practically kill us over beating each other up when we were little, but now she says her job is finished; if, after 24 years we still feel want to resort to physical means to settle our nonsense, then it's not her fault, but due to the fact that we're a bunch of idiots!"}, {"response": 102, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sat, Nov 21, 1998 (01:12)", "body": "She has a point. (about her job being done) However my family expects adults to behave, if not you will be ostracised at the very least. Yelling is O K but physical violence is not allowed. It's a whole lot easier to forgive someone for yelling at you, than for the black eye."}, {"response": 103, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 23, 1998 (01:49)", "body": "That's true. With us the 'physicals' are more play than anything else now. We go crazy when we get together. Wrestling and burping and stuff. My kids think their mummy's gone mad every time I see my sister and/or brother. I have the greatest brother in the world."}, {"response": 104, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (17:16)", "body": "Let's see - do I apply formally to become host again? And I have a question or two: I am 25 (as of tomorrow), a studying underdog, my hair really needs a wash, and broke - does that mean I get a discount on the application fee?"}, {"response": 105, "author": "TIM", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (17:20)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Riette!!"}, {"response": 106, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (01:13)", "body": "Thank you!"}, {"response": 107, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Apr 19, 1999 (15:06)", "body": "I would like to invite all visitors of this conference to the International Conflicts conference here on the Spring: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/InternationalConflicts/all This new conference is dedicated to the disputes between groups all over the world, be that social, cultural, political or ethnical differences."}, {"response": 108, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, May 31, 1999 (11:23)", "body": "Thanks, Alexander!"}, {"response": 109, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Jun  3, 1999 (05:55)", "body": "Any time! ;=}"}, {"response": 110, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jun  4, 1999 (13:18)", "body": "You should come to inner."}, {"response": 111, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, Jun  5, 1999 (13:24)", "body": "Huh?"}, {"response": 112, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Apr  4, 2000 (18:22)", "body": "I have come to know an (words defy my writing how incredible this man is) outstanding artist who lurks on Spring from time to time, and another very special artist who would like this to become a forum for professional artist to discuss techniques, media, and projects among other things. Would this be possible? Something needs to jump start this conference, and Ree is busy for the foreseeable future in becoming a lawyer. Suggestions, please?!"}, {"response": 113, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Apr  4, 2000 (19:00)", "body": "Perhaps I should just tell them this conference exists and let them go from there. I could create one called \"technique\" but that might not be appropriate to their wishes. Just because I cannot create greatness does not mean I do not appreciate the effort and angst in giving birth to a work of art on any level. These people of whom I speak have had professional shows, their work displayed in galleries and purchased by private and public sources. However, since our artist in residence is now in law school, we need another to take her place or at least be willing to post now and then on the subject. (Do not apply for the position, Tim!) Is there anything that I can do other than to be a sincere and dedicated cheerleader who appreciates how incredibly difficult it is to bare your soul by hanging it on the wall for all to see?"}, {"response": 114, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Apr  4, 2000 (19:07)", "body": "marcia, i don't know how to jumpstart this place. but we do have artcentaur.com waiting for us to use. we have a committee too (guess who's been given the honor of chairing? me, and i've been lowsy at it too). and i'm another cheerleader for those who brave the sharks of critiques and those who do not appreciate the effort it takes to stand naked before all."}, {"response": 115, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Apr  4, 2000 (19:16)", "body": "You do know! But, I have seen your work and you are an artist, too. You have not devoted the hours and blood, sweat and tears (not to mention the years of education) that the other have, perhaps, but it was just as difficult for you to post your art as it was to post my bit of fiction...and continues to be for the comsumate professionals I mentioned above. We are each vulnerable when it represents so much of our being. *hugs* to all who are brave enough to do it so the likes of people like me may be enriched by your vision."}, {"response": 116, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Apr  4, 2000 (19:18)", "body": "Gi has expressed an interest in this and hoped originally that was what this conference would be all about. She would paricipate. I shall ask the gentleman, when he gets a moment to breathe, if he would also participate."}, {"response": 117, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Apr  4, 2000 (19:21)", "body": "consummate....I do know how to spell, but sometime it just gets away before I can catch it...*sigh*"}, {"response": 118, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Apr  4, 2000 (19:22)", "body": "good. let's hope they will come and when ree gets back, won't she be surprised?"}, {"response": 119, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Apr  4, 2000 (19:22)", "body": "Do these stripes give anyone else a headache? Or is it because I have been reading entire topics through the stripes...?!"}, {"response": 120, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Apr  4, 2000 (19:23)", "body": "the stripes bother me but only when we're reading lines on the hot pink bars..."}, {"response": 121, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Apr  4, 2000 (19:24)", "body": "Yup! I shall tell Gi straight away (even though it is the middle of the night for her and she is showing inflight movies inside her head at the moment...)"}, {"response": 122, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Apr  5, 2000 (06:13)", "body": "Wow, Ree's becoming a lawyer. I'd have to transfer artcentaur.com and get it active if you want to use it."}, {"response": 123, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Apr  5, 2000 (14:42)", "body": "I'm not even sure what it is. I have read about it but never been in there (if there is a \"there\" to visit...) Wait till I get more than one artist involved. Gi is the only one so far, and my other one is too busy at the moment to even consider asking him about it. I would much prefer to wait till he has time to think and consider than to ask now and be turned down flat. Is that okay with you?"}, {"response": 124, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Apr  6, 2000 (20:19)", "body": "transfer it so we can get it set up (if it's not a lot of trouble. if it is, we can wait).... art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 10, "subject": "LET THE FUN BEGIN!", "response_count": 74, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jul 23, 1998 (23:34)", "body": "and if this wallpaper doesn't say, \"Fun!\" I don't know what does..."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (02:44)", "body": "I'm not sure whether it says 'fun' or 'fu\ufffd . . . 'funned up'."}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (21:44)", "body": "It's certainly eye-catching!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (00:45)", "body": "Thanks, girl."}, {"response": 5, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (00:51)", "body": "think I've finally gotten used to it... especially since I found a text color combo that works with it!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (00:54)", "body": "Wer, tell me if I have to change it, okay? Because I don't want to bugger anyone's eyes up - I will really not be offended."}, {"response": 7, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (01:09)", "body": "no one has typed in screaming, yet...I say keep it for awhile, I like the character it gives the place..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (04:01)", "body": "Okay then. I think Wolf will be the ultimate judge - she sees colours better than us - so I'll wait till she comes back, and see what she says."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (06:59)", "body": "AT first I was taken back, then I thought, what the hell . . ."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (07:34)", "body": "And 'what the hell' means you will tolerate it? Even though you don't really like it?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (11:26)", "body": "nope, in his context, it meant \"why not?\""}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (12:36)", "body": "I see. But really, I don't mind changing if it doesn't really appeal. I . . . I can take rejection . . no, really, I can . . . \ufffdgulp\ufffd. HA-HA!!!! No, it'll stay then, until I get a definite no from somewhere."}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (08:12)", "body": "wer is right. I meant go for it."}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (09:58)", "body": "OH. Okay then, and thank you, Terry. But tell me if your eyes really start to hurt, okay?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (21:04)", "body": "Oh, sure."}, {"response": 16, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (21:29)", "body": "It's not too hard on the eyes, because for the most part, the text doesn't straddle any of the color lines."}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (01:10)", "body": "Good."}, {"response": 18, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (22:21)", "body": "Riette's first sketch for the Spring... To see it in it's full scale glory, go to http://www.spring.net/~spew/art/rspring1.jpg"}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (00:53)", "body": "Thank you, Wer. Sorry it's so scruffy, people, but it IS a bed sketch after all!!! ha-ha!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug  1, 1998 (17:54)", "body": "the colors are groooooooooovy baby! (so, riette, tell me, did you do the drawing on someone's back ala Dangerous Liasons?) it's neat, like how the trees link with each other...."}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug  5, 1998 (11:22)", "body": "Hi, Wolf!!! Long time no read! No, I don't do that Dangerous Liasons thing - but I did it lying on MY back! So how was your conference?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Aug  5, 1998 (19:52)", "body": "hard work......"}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug  6, 1998 (01:03)", "body": "Sorry to hear that. Have you taken a holiday yet? Or don't wolves do that?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug  6, 1998 (07:44)", "body": "can't have a holiday until after Oct. (due to the end of the 98 fiscal year)"}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (08:16)", "body": "Oh, you poor thing. Well, when you do, just make it LONG. Today I reached what is like a milestone for me. I did my first truly beautiful painting in oil. It is of two lovers, and I finally managed to find a technique that suits me, and which works with my style of painting. For the first time I feel truly satisfied, as it opens a whole new dimension for my art, and gives it a kind of versatility I never expected to find - not at this early point in my practicing life anyway. I am always so afraid that all my work will end up looking the same, however colour ul it may be (like that of artists like Hundertwasser), and now I have found a way to overcome that problem. I must be the luckiest person in the world to do what I do."}, {"response": 26, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (11:40)", "body": "congratulations! (you gonna display it here?)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (12:35)", "body": "Thanks, Wolfie! Sure I'll display it - I'll take a photo once the paint has dried. It is a very simple painting, but the colours came out great and well balanced, and that was what I was trying to achieve. And when are you going to post some of your art? I am really looking forward to seeing it."}, {"response": 28, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (14:24)", "body": "oh, you mean my pencil drawings of stick people? still haven't set up the scanner (lazy me!)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (23:09)", "body": "Your breakthrough is heartwarming and I'm very happy for you, Riette."}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (01:03)", "body": "Thank you, Terry, that's very kind. Wolf, get that scanner set up, and send me your stick men!!!!! Not that I want to pressure you, of course . . . . . ha-ha!!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (01:04)", "body": "Oh, Terry, do you think those two people are going to start coming? The two you mailed me about. Who exactly are they, and what do they do? Are they going to post me their art?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (11:26)", "body": "It's a maybe. Just trying to pump up art. I noticed that they had posted in an art topic in the austin conference on Electric Minds. So, nothing to lose in inviting them, right?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (16:11)", "body": "Absolutely!!! How very nice of you. I do hope they come. Who else can we pester? Do you think we should go invite the droolers and modjaners? There are so many of them, there are BOUND to be art fans there. And Stacey - she said she'd post pictures of her school kids. Come on, babe, you're her relation, so go ask her nicely. You know what, I'll pester the gallery boss whose giving me my exhibition - he is awfully nice, and know a hell of a lot. I'm writing him tomorrow about something, and will i vite him then."}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (19:48)", "body": "Great, I love it. You sound downright evangelical!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (00:32)", "body": "ha-ha!!! My daddy would have been so pleased to see me become a missionary!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (17:26)", "body": "Think it's time I post a sketch of myself on the loo?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "TIM", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (17:33)", "body": "Yeah go ahead!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (19:24)", "body": "haha!!!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (23:21)", "body": "I don't know, do you do anything, like, really cool on the loo?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (01:18)", "body": "Oh sure! Like pricking the spots on my bum! You?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (23:04)", "body": "Untangling hair balls just like everyone else... well, that and reading catalogs..."}, {"response": 42, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (00:44)", "body": "ha-ha! Must say, I've never done the first. I like reading history books on the loo though; good place for quiet concentration."}, {"response": 43, "author": "PT", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (01:23)", "body": "I don't believe I've heard of anyone doing that before."}, {"response": 44, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (09:21)", "body": "Well, PT, that's what we're all here for... enlightenment and broadening of our horizons..."}, {"response": 45, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (09:23)", "body": "What catalogues do you read on the loo, Wer?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (09:26)", "body": "whichever ones be at my feet... I depend upon the kindness of others..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (09:33)", "body": "i can always count on plenty of loo reading material--as my hubby regularly leaves newspapers and ads there. oh, we weren't talking about his loo habits wre we? oh he'll just die to find i've been revealing his secrets! i like to take care of my business and get the heck outta there. but us wolves are usually that way. and now i'm done talking about those habits. what's that smell?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (10:56)", "body": "chicken"}, {"response": 49, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (12:13)", "body": "i think you're right, ree-head! who cut the big one?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (12:51)", "body": "Not me!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (17:07)", "body": "me either!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (23:11)", "body": "must have been the chicken..."}, {"response": 53, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Dec 11, 1998 (11:07)", "body": "ha-ha! Yeah! And we all know who is most likely to be in the company of such an animal around here, don't we?"}, {"response": 54, "author": "PT", "date": "Fri, Dec 11, 1998 (11:17)", "body": "The fox. Right?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Dec 11, 1998 (11:54)", "body": "Cool...I wasn't blamed..."}, {"response": 56, "author": "PT", "date": "Fri, Dec 11, 1998 (11:59)", "body": "It was you?"}, {"response": 57, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Dec 11, 1998 (12:39)", "body": "that would normally get blamed for being in the company of chickens, yes...but fortunately, you suggested the fox and I cannot remember ever being accused of being a fox or being compared to a fox..."}, {"response": 58, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Dec 11, 1998 (12:40)", "body": "(have been accused of being a chicken, however...)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "PT", "date": "Fri, Dec 11, 1998 (14:23)", "body": "I just figured that foxes had a great fondness for chicken."}, {"response": 60, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Dec 11, 1998 (14:28)", "body": "as well they do, it just let me off the hook..."}, {"response": 61, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Dec 12, 1998 (19:45)", "body": "Oh, wer, you little vixen you! ;-)"}, {"response": 62, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Dec 14, 1998 (00:12)", "body": "Never thought I'd live to see that! wer, little, and vixen all in the same sentence..."}, {"response": 63, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Dec 14, 1998 (11:06)", "body": "Voxy Wer!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Dec 14, 1998 (11:07)", "body": "Get it? Foxy vixen combined?"}, {"response": 65, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Dec 14, 1998 (11:08)", "body": "I mean, foxen, fixen and fuxen might give people the wrong idea..."}, {"response": 66, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Dec 14, 1998 (20:46)", "body": "lol!!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Dec 15, 1998 (00:10)", "body": "This is the kind of joke that usually makes Chris go, 'huh?'."}, {"response": 68, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Dec 15, 1998 (00:14)", "body": "Just tell him, \"That's okay, dear.\" And pat him on the head."}, {"response": 69, "author": "PT", "date": "Tue, Dec 15, 1998 (11:55)", "body": "It kind of reminds me of a joke that developers like to play. In most large communities in this country, there is a subdivision called Camelot or Camelot Forest or something like that. In each of these there is a street called \"Launcelot\", and another street called \"Guinevere\". The two streets always intersect. So, you have a location: The intersection of Launcelot and Guinevere, in Camelot Forest."}, {"response": 70, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Dec 15, 1998 (22:51)", "body": "Hmmm...there's a Camelot nearby that a friend lives in--I'll have to ask him about those street names."}, {"response": 71, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Dec 16, 1998 (00:30)", "body": "How weird! I hated that movie with Richard Gere - 'First Knight'."}, {"response": 72, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec 16, 1998 (15:07)", "body": "I never saw it. What didn't you like about it?"}, {"response": 73, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Dec 18, 1998 (05:57)", "body": "Richard Gere. He's such a charisma bypass."}, {"response": 74, "author": "PT", "date": "Fri, Dec 18, 1998 (12:00)", "body": "That would make him an ill fit for the role of Arthur or just about anyone of those stories. Have you read Sir Thomas Mallory's \"Le Mort D'Arthur\"? art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 11, "subject": "The Gallery", "response_count": 279, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (14:07)", "body": "how much postage shall i stick on? (or is that question best posed to a postman?)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (15:53)", "body": "i think this topic is going to be fun. look forward to it and heck, maybe even i will post a picture *giggle*"}, {"response": 3, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (15:54)", "body": "(that is, IF i unpack my scanner-yup, still in the box, lack of space, you know)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (17:33)", "body": "PLEASE do, Wolf!! As soon as I get my mail going again, I'll make a start, but if any of you (hey, MIKE!!!) want to start, that's great too. Wer, what about you. Autumn? Stacey, to send a photo should not cost you more than \ufffd1.50 or so. Have it weighed the first time, and from then on it'll be easy. It will be wonderful if you could be a part of this too. Let's get creative!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (17:34)", "body": "That should be $1.50. Whatever. From here it costs SFR. 1.80."}, {"response": 6, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (00:48)", "body": "Okay, this is the first picture Zoe drew on the computer..."}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (01:30)", "body": "Oh, that's absolutely wonderful, Wer!!!! Reminds me of a spiderweb on an early morning, especially with the dew drops hanging from the yellow thread at the top. Ask her what she wants to call it."}, {"response": 8, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (01:33)", "body": "will do...she'll be back on Sunday..."}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (01:45)", "body": "I love children's art. Planning on exhibiting a picture or two of Isa's in my next independent exhibition. She made this big one on canvas - it's just magical, a garden. I'll take a photo, and try to get it in here. Someday."}, {"response": 10, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (11:30)", "body": "wow. my kids don't do canvas yet, but i have oils and acrylics and everything. i sure try, tho...."}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (14:58)", "body": "Oh, try them with canvas - you'll be amazed!!! The best thing about canvas is, it's not too expensive, and they don't need to be framed to look good against the walls. My walls are so full of them, I'm thinking of putting the new ones up against the ceiling - seriously! I think it'll look beautiful. Oh, and if you put a bit of varnish on the pictures they've finished on canvas, it becomes totally waterproof, so you can wipe it with a damp cloth when it gets dusty. They also make wonderful presents for the grandparents."}, {"response": 12, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (21:59)", "body": "you know, i do have some canvas attached to frames, hmmmm.....right now i'm painting a bird house and yes, that polyurethane sure keeps it from rotting away (i have one already which sparrows have used the last two years!)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (01:35)", "body": "\ufffdCRINGE\ufffd Don't say things like that - I'm breaking out in a cold, panicky sweat here! Well, when you've finished this one, make sure to put it into the gallery before you feed it to the birds, okay? At least it will be preserved in SOME form."}, {"response": 14, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (14:26)", "body": "the painting is done and it came out pretty good if i say so myself. will have to take a pic and scan it in for you to see. (birds are good, they are our friends, say this to yourself, riette!)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (14:37)", "body": "They are indeed. I love animals (even dated a few before I got married) - but why should they be allowed to poop on your art, girl?!?!?! Don't forget to scan in that picture, okay?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (16:07)", "body": "that's what the varnish is for! wipe that poop away!! won't forget."}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (17:15)", "body": "I think I shall take to bleeding inwardly very soon . . . !"}, {"response": 18, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (17:55)", "body": "*grin* i'll stop talking about it!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (18:17)", "body": "Just post that picture WITHOUT poop on it - it'll bust my screen!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (19:55)", "body": "will do, still have a couple more layers of varnish to put on it..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul 12, 1998 (01:43)", "body": "Good. \ufffdsigh of relief\ufffd"}, {"response": 22, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Jul 15, 1998 (21:01)", "body": "Zoe said the title of the above work is Scribble, and this one is Scribble Animals"}, {"response": 23, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Jul 15, 1998 (21:02)", "body": "and this one is called Bubbly"}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jul 16, 1998 (01:21)", "body": "STUNNING!! I like the scribbly animals alot too, but Bubbly - it is just STUNNING! Tell Zoe if she's not careful, I'll print her pictures out, and have them printed out on a large scale, and pretend to have made them myself! And tell her to make some more, okay? It is great to have such colourful things in here. Tell her all that. BIG HINT TO ALL OF YOU OTHER LAZY BUGGERS where are those pictures?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? (Think that was subtle enough, Wer?)"}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 16, 1998 (04:04)", "body": "I miss a lot of graphics by telnetting!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jul 16, 1998 (08:32)", "body": "Terry, are you going to post me some art in here, or what? Oh, I have to say please too, do I? Okay then: NOW please."}, {"response": 27, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jul 16, 1998 (16:23)", "body": "had to rush right over and look at the pics... in fact I've taken to running Netscape WHILE telnetting to expedite the process but not to miss any of the good stuff!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 16, 1998 (21:44)", "body": "What exactly do you want from me, Riette?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jul 16, 1998 (22:30)", "body": "she wants some art that you've created posted up in here somewhere..."}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 17, 1998 (01:27)", "body": "What exactly I want from you, Terry? Now that I can't reveal in front of everyone - there ARE some under 50's here, you know . . . ha-ha, bad joke ANYWAY, yes, Terry. Anything fun or funny or serious or just colourful."}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 17, 1998 (05:59)", "body": "moi? art? Yes, soem things are better left unsaid for the tender under 50s."}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 17, 1998 (10:25)", "body": "Wasn't talking about SERIOUS BIG art. If I wanted to see that, I'd go to the art museum. So don't make me lick your backside - send at least a loo-sketch."}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 17, 1998 (11:29)", "body": "Send you a sketch?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 17, 1998 (13:08)", "body": "no, silly, post it up in here..."}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 17, 1998 (15:13)", "body": "Exactly, Terry. Don't have the space for your sketches in my place!! HEY! You're just fooling around with me, aren't you? Ah, stoopid! Why don't I ever see it straight away?! ha-ha!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 17, 1998 (15:14)", "body": "Oh $hit, don't be offended, Terry, that didn't come out right. ME stoopid, not you stoopid is what I meant."}, {"response": 37, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jul 17, 1998 (22:36)", "body": "Wer, your daughter has such a knack for color!! My older daughter is very artistic (my mother-in-law is a painter) and I would love to see some of her work posted here. She is very intense in every way and I think she'd like to see it displayed. About the canvas--I was in a coffeehouse in Vermont last month and there were unframed canvases everywhere clothespinned to yarn that was strung all over the ceiling. I thought it was a clever, inexpensive way to decorate. Also, every single light fixture, food display case, cash register, etc. had cheap plastic beads hanging from it (like the ones they throw at Mardi Gras)--the kids loved it!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 18, 1998 (01:04)", "body": "Sounds great! One can make wonderful rugs from those canvasses as well. Just make sure you give it a glue/white paint coating before you start painting. Makes the material alot tougher, and the paint will stick to it more firmly. And finish it of with a matt varnish to protect the paint against water."}, {"response": 39, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 18, 1998 (01:05)", "body": "Oh, and Autumn, you MUST post some of your daughter's art. We'd love to see it!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jul 18, 1998 (01:28)", "body": "I will do a sketch some day."}, {"response": 41, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Jul 18, 1998 (05:02)", "body": "i'm afraid i haven't got any to post :-/ Most of my stuff is logos and editing n stuff like that. sowwy :-("}, {"response": 42, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 18, 1998 (07:39)", "body": "\ufffdBIG BIG BIG SCOWL\ufffd And are you too tired now to make a little loo-sketch in Paint for the gallery?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Jul 18, 1998 (08:20)", "body": "okay....i'll try, but you're not allowed to laugh :)"}, {"response": 44, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 18, 1998 (13:05)", "body": "I don't think I would want to laugh - I think you're very creative."}, {"response": 45, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jul 23, 1998 (01:32)", "body": "\"LEMONADE\" by Juliette Moore"}, {"response": 46, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jul 23, 1998 (11:11)", "body": "\"LEMONADE\" by Juliette Moore to see the picture in it's full size glory, go to http://www.spring.net/~spew/art/lemonade.gif"}, {"response": 47, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 23, 1998 (11:12)", "body": "wer is now assistant host of art, under Riette's command."}, {"response": 48, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jul 23, 1998 (11:20)", "body": "I'm yours, my mistress..."}, {"response": 49, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jul 23, 1998 (12:57)", "body": "Oh, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, Wer. Send me your address, so I can send you lots and lots of Swiss chocolate or sweet T-shirts for you kids or something. Think people are going to complain over the background perhaps, but if they do I'll try and come up with something a little easier. THANK YOU. Isn't Juliette's 'Lemonade' great? I love the two missing teeth!! Thank you everyone for making such a great effort with this topic - it's turning out much more wonderful than I had expected."}, {"response": 50, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (00:01)", "body": "Spank-me-roll-me-kiss-me-pin-me-blow-me!! Otherwise entitled: \"The Embrace\" by your lovely hostess, Mrs. Walton"}, {"response": 51, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (05:44)", "body": "Very nice. I had no idea of Riette's artistic prowess. The colors are so rich and the interweaving of shapes is fantastic! Wow!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (06:01)", "body": "I just printed it on my HP Deskjet 722c color printer and put it in a frame under glass and put it up in my bedroom."}, {"response": 53, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (21:46)", "body": "What a compliment! That is incredible, Riette! Is it a mosaic of some sort? What medium did you use?"}, {"response": 54, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (00:50)", "body": "Totally flattered, Terry - you have no idea what that means to me. Oh, Autumn, it's not as impressive as you think. I'm not much of a draughtsman, so I just use alot of colours to make up for it. It's not a mosaic, it's just plain old acryllics. The think I'm working on now will be a mosaic though. And, oh, if any of you would like to be a part of the painting, send me your empty beer or soda cans! I'm going to need alot, and there are not that many different colours here!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (00:56)", "body": "what colors do you want? I'd love to help!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (04:07)", "body": "Thanks, Wer - one can always depend on you. You're great. I'd like every colour you can lay your hands on, absolutely anything - I'm a total colour freak. And patterns, I love patterns. When you look at a can, imagine what it would look like, cut into 1x1cm blocks. If you can imagine that one such a block will look interesting, SEND IT! It's going to be quite a big picture, so I need lots of cans, and though it'll take a heck of a long time, I promise to post it once it's finished, and you can see which of your cans I used. We can call it THE SPRING CAN PICTURE! Hope we get some more pictures from Zoe and Juliette as well, not to mention Stacey's kids - think I ought to start pestering her."}, {"response": 57, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (13:02)", "body": "Zoe's offerings for today, are \"Sky Blue\" and \"Pretty Little Checkers\""}, {"response": 58, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (00:51)", "body": "Tell Zoe her dad truly has talent. SKY BLUE shows great sensitivity for colour and light and movement and rhythm."}, {"response": 59, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (21:32)", "body": "\"Sky Blue\" looks like it is made out of sand, the way it swirls. \"Checkers\" is so colorful--but I can't imagine it being the backdrop/wallpaper for the computer!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (23:26)", "body": "honest, Zoe does these with KidPics... it's a great program..."}, {"response": 61, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (01:12)", "body": "Quite quite sure? If so, she's one talented kid!"}, {"response": 62, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (07:49)", "body": "I'm positive...since I showed her I'm putting them up on here, she only lets me save the good ones..."}, {"response": 63, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (08:34)", "body": "That's really sweet. I think it great that you buy your kids such computer programmes. And is your little boy not going to make us something, or is art 'only for girls' at this point in his life? How old is he, and what is his name, by the way?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (22:18)", "body": "Taylor, he'll be eleven in November... don't know if he still makes pictures on the computer or not..."}, {"response": 65, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (00:54)", "body": "Taylor's a nice name. Do they not tell you at that age anymore whether they make pictures or not?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (09:12)", "body": "tough one to answer, Riette..."}, {"response": 67, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (10:36)", "body": "That's okay, I know. Some questions about kids are like that."}, {"response": 68, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (10:36)", "body": "Riette, I'm sorry for jamming up your mailbox with all that extra stuff--I don't know how to attach a document and specify \"location\" without all those past correspondences appearing!? I sent you a message when I realized what had happened, apologizing for slowing down your email, but when I logged back on I realized I had sent it to myself! I'm so incompetent!!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (10:36)", "body": "Autumn, can you e-mail me the last two pictures you sent Riette? technical difficulties haven't let me post the ones she forwarded me..."}, {"response": 70, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (10:36)", "body": "That's okay, Autumn, it didn't jam up anything - they came through fine. Nothing to apologize for."}, {"response": 71, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 31, 1998 (13:00)", "body": "two more from the Moore house... Autumn, please provide the appropriate commentary, titles, and artists..."}, {"response": 72, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jul 31, 1998 (21:25)", "body": "(thank you, wer, I can't believe it actually worked) Ahem. The first is by Juliette, who is eating a cracker and demonstrating how digestion in the body works (the dog w/the bone in the corner is irrelevant). The second is by Lydia, and shows her swimming in the pool wearing her star bathing suit."}, {"response": 73, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug  1, 1998 (18:04)", "body": "gosh, these are great!! can't wait til my scanner is hooked up *ahem* so i can send some. riette, that picture was abstract without being overly done. i loved the way you used colors and shapes to express the feeling, and the way you embraced the embracers in a circle of color. lovely....."}, {"response": 74, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Aug  2, 1998 (15:13)", "body": "\"Men\" by Zoe Roland \"Daddy's Rainbow\" by Zoe Roland \"Yellow House with Diamonds\" by Zoe Roland"}, {"response": 75, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug  2, 1998 (16:22)", "body": "man! does Zoe name them too? tell her she's doing a great job!"}, {"response": 76, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Aug  2, 1998 (16:48)", "body": "yep, she names them, also..."}, {"response": 77, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug  2, 1998 (18:19)", "body": "I love the first and last ones, although I don't understand what they're about! The second one reminds me of a bathing suit print--maybe a future career in fashion design?? (ZRTX)"}, {"response": 78, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (12:46)", "body": "Last day in Eden February 1998 100cmx100cm by, you guessed it! Our Beloved Hostess"}, {"response": 79, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (13:26)", "body": "Thank you, Wer. You must really only post these things when you really really have the time - the last thing I want is for you to have to worry about this as well."}, {"response": 80, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (14:31)", "body": "gotcha!"}, {"response": 81, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (15:34)", "body": "\ufffdBIG SMILE\ufffd"}, {"response": 82, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (15:35)", "body": "Damn, why do all your responses land in the nicely coloured lines, and all mine land in the boring old grey?"}, {"response": 83, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (15:46)", "body": "Party Balloons Zoe J. Roland"}, {"response": 84, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (15:57)", "body": "That is SO SO lovely! Tell Zoe I'm a BIG fan of hers. What is the programme you bought her, Wer? Maybe I can get it for Isa too - she has just gotten the hang of moving the mouse, and things happening when you click on them."}, {"response": 85, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (20:45)", "body": "riette, last day in eden is wonderful! (and yeah, what program does Zoe use?) btw: my scanner is up and i have a picture loaded up. it's too big (memory) and am trying to cut it down to a suitable size."}, {"response": 86, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (00:48)", "body": "Great! I always change the size of the picture in the scanner programme itself. Can't wait to see your picture!"}, {"response": 87, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (21:55)", "body": "Heron by Wolf colored pencil"}, {"response": 88, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (21:57)", "body": "*blush* uh-oh.....k, lemme try that again :("}, {"response": 89, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (01:10)", "body": "Patiently awaiting Heron."}, {"response": 90, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (08:51)", "body": "What went wrong?"}, {"response": 91, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (10:08)", "body": "i think when i was editing, i saved a blank page, so when i tried to bring it up here, that's all there was (and it was HUGE)......i deleted it from my file here at the spring so it wouldn't try to load it again. am having trouble trying to shrink the image. tried it with microsoft image composer and paint and neither has worked yet for me. any hints?"}, {"response": 92, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (10:52)", "body": "you can try using height and width settings inside the img tag..."}, {"response": 93, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (11:26)", "body": "How does one do that?"}, {"response": 94, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (21:22)", "body": "Heron by Wolf media: colored pencil"}, {"response": 95, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (21:23)", "body": "man, he's still too damned big (and i did some serious cutting too)"}, {"response": 96, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (21:53)", "body": "Great heron, Wolf! (and I should know, they're all over the bay here) What a visual treat, Riette--all the color and geometric design!"}, {"response": 97, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (00:58)", "body": "Thanks Autumn. Anything of yours you'd like to share? I like your heron, Wolf - I had no idea 'heron' was a type of bird, so it came as a total surprise! I like the typically staring bird's eye, and the 'flow' of feathers, but what's best about it, is that one can see which foot is in front of which. That's important. You've got a very good feel for these things."}, {"response": 98, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (10:58)", "body": "thanks *blush*"}, {"response": 99, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:09)", "body": "Why? There is no sense in being humble and honest at the same time!!"}, {"response": 100, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:11)", "body": "this piece was taken from an Audubon plate (in a big bird book i have at home). i used to practice drawing by looking at pictures, so the composition was not entirely my own."}, {"response": 101, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:02)", "body": "No reason why it should be. You still executed it very well. Do you seriously think artists use compositions which are entirely their own? Most artists work from photos, or from OTHER artists' work. I always memorize photo's from newspapers, or posters that I see while walking through the city. When I really can't find anything that I like (not willing to buy books for that), I will sit down and do something from the imagination, like Last day in Eden for example. But the pose of the lovers from Th Embrace was an idea I got from a ballet poster. That doesn't make it any less my own. What YOU make of the photos you work from is where the creative element lies."}, {"response": 102, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:59)", "body": "yes, but i didn't want anyone to think that i had this picture of a heron in my head and just had to jot it down *grin*"}, {"response": 103, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (14:26)", "body": "Starling by Wolf colored pencil"}, {"response": 104, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (16:33)", "body": "incredible, Wolf"}, {"response": 105, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (17:12)", "body": "why thank you, wer *smile*"}, {"response": 106, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (22:19)", "body": "Rose by Wolf colored pencil on notebook paper"}, {"response": 107, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (01:09)", "body": "Very nice. I like the slightly stylized form, the nice curves. You didn't just sit down and copy a picture exactly as it was in front of you, you drew something you felt as well - an impression, if you like."}, {"response": 108, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (20:59)", "body": "Lovely, Wolf! But the starling is the real piece-de-resistance. It is so precise--like a Japanese bird. Are the starlings there really so colorful? Here they're black, with an iridescent hue to their heads."}, {"response": 109, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (08:10)", "body": "no, they irridescent. but on the plate i was working with, the coloring was enhanced which gave me an opportunity to experiement with color without it looking like a coloring book picture"}, {"response": 110, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (10:34)", "body": "cool, girl!"}, {"response": 111, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (17:51)", "body": "as to the previous what program does Zoe use question, it is Kid Pix Studio by Broderbund Software, Inc."}, {"response": 112, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (01:23)", "body": "Thank you, Wer! I'm defenitely getting it for Isa."}, {"response": 113, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (13:00)", "body": "\"Jesus on the Cross\" by Juliette Moore"}, {"response": 114, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (13:05)", "body": "That was quick! Thank you, Wer. And thanks to Juliette Moore for posting us this lovely picture!!!!"}, {"response": 115, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (13:54)", "body": "Thanks, Riette & Wer! Jesus is sad because there's a snake crawling on him (I think she's mixing up her Bible stories here, but whatever)."}, {"response": 116, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (19:11)", "body": "First Oil Painting Ever by Wolf"}, {"response": 117, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:00)", "body": "I was wondering about it, Autumn! I knew it was a snake, but I couldn't quite make out why he was there. That is what is so sweet about children't art, isn't it? You can really see how they THINK when they're at work - and sometimes their thinking is beyond us; I'm sure there is a simple explanation for the snake crawling on Jesus. Could you ask her for me, Autumn? I'd love to hear what she has to say. HEY HO HO HEY, Wolfie!!!! The picture is good overall, but your sky is REALLY REALLY REALLY good. Sky and water are the two most difficult things to paint, and you've defenitely mastered sky. That's marvellous! You've got a great feel for landscape painting - why don't you carry one painting them for a while, there is real potential there. By the way, I absolutely CANNOT paint landscapes, and haven't done a single one in my life. People and animals and cities, yes. But all my efforts in landscape painting have been miserable failures! Wolf, this painting - it's not the one with the bird$hit, is it?"}, {"response": 118, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (11:08)", "body": "haha! no bird doodoo on this one."}, {"response": 119, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (15:11)", "body": "\ufffdBIG RELIEVED SIGH!!!\ufffd"}, {"response": 120, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (20:01)", "body": "Her Braid by Wolf colored pencil"}, {"response": 121, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (20:04)", "body": "it seems no matter how much i shrink these pictures, they always show up real big here. gotta question, perhaps for wer or terry (no offense riette) who are more computer literate than i and the aforementioned riette: how does one go about getting a caption to appear on the block where the image is going? you know, so one knows what's going there before the pic shows up? (like riette's picture in the beginning of this conference)"}, {"response": 122, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:47)", "body": "Wolf, if that is your first oil painting ever, then what the hell are you doing in contracting?? The whole landscape is perfect! And your pencil sketch is beautiful, I especially love the colors you used for her lipstick and flowers."}, {"response": 123, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:50)", "body": "*blush* never expected this kind of response. never really saw my artwork as a particular talent (especially one that i could make a living at). you guys are the first ones to really see the stuff. feel like a little kid and grabbing everything i've got to post here (like the fridge). thanks for your kind words, they're encouraging!"}, {"response": 124, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (01:42)", "body": "They are also true, and thank you for trusting us enough to show us your work. I love the flowers - it's such a nice touch to the picture."}, {"response": 125, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (22:57)", "body": "inside the image tag, Wolf, add alt=\"whatever you want the caption to be\""}, {"response": 126, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (11:40)", "body": "t'anks...see, riette, this is how i got so smart on this cyber stuff...."}, {"response": 127, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (13:58)", "body": "I hear you, girl, I hear you!! It's just that you GRASP it with such ease, and I don't!"}, {"response": 128, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (16:23)", "body": "claws and teeth help *grin*"}, {"response": 129, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (01:10)", "body": "Oh yes, THOSE! I'll grow my nails, and see if that helps...."}, {"response": 130, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (12:45)", "body": "WOW! I've been missing a helluva lot by telneting... Riette, you certainly rate as a professional artist, I like your style and your subject matter. Wolf, DAMN girl... Autumn was right. You must be one REALLY excellect government employee not to spend more time honing the obviously extensive raw talent you have! Zoe, I still have the napkin from Kerbey Lane... it shall certainly be very valuable someday if you decide you'd like to be a world famous artEEEst! Autumn, your children choose inordinately intense subject matter for their ages (schoolteacher mode) looks as if you are providing them with quite opportunity for input and fostering of ideas. They are very lucky to have a mommy like you! Just out of curiousity... how often does the topic of digestion come up in your household?!?! *smile* Ree-head... beautiful job with this site!"}, {"response": 131, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (01:06)", "body": "I'm just glad you're here too! Would you like to get some of your schoolkids' pictures in here too?"}, {"response": 132, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:38)", "body": "Ha Ha! Juliette had a unit in school on digestion (called something like \"Where does lunch go?\") and obviously was paying attention!"}, {"response": 133, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (01:06)", "body": "How sweet! Isa, my eldest, has just started drawing recognizable things 3 days ago. The first thing se managed was a sun, and I'm proud as anything - I'll post it. And my little one came home with a most impressive little painting that she'd done at playgroup, so I'll post that too."}, {"response": 134, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (18:16)", "body": "Ri\ufffdtte 'The Embrace II' August 1998 100cm x 80cm This is my first effort in oil."}, {"response": 135, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:25)", "body": "Cool and edgy! Maybe this should be the spring's logo!"}, {"response": 136, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:47)", "body": "That's what I thought! Wow, I'm floored. So organic and sensual. And sort of animalistic in a way."}, {"response": 137, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (23:08)", "body": "I put Riette's new picture on http://www.spring.net with a link that clicks thought to . . . guess where?"}, {"response": 138, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (00:20)", "body": "you got a link that clicks thoughts? that is edgy and cool... Well, Riette, can we use it as the logo? Looks like the ball is in your court, Madam Artisi..."}, {"response": 139, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (00:56)", "body": "God, that's so utterly nice of you! You want to use it as a logo even though it doesn't have flowers in it? Of course you can - no need to ask."}, {"response": 140, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:35)", "body": "I'll get to work on it then..."}, {"response": 141, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (02:47)", "body": "not that it needed help, mind you, and please don't get mad, Riette, but what do you think of"}, {"response": 142, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (03:37)", "body": "Oh wow! No, I'm not mad, just so hugely flattered, I'd like to stick my head in a hole somewhere! It looks totally cool! Wish I had your computer talents!"}, {"response": 143, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (03:53)", "body": "and I wish I had your art talents..."}, {"response": 144, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (05:24)", "body": "Don't. I've just had the most incredible down-turn for the exhibition I've been planning for almost a year now. Went to the gallery boss who promised me an exhibition a year ago now already - you know, the nice guy I've been getting along with so well. In all that time he could not stop telling me how much he liked my work, how much he wanted to exhibit it, treating me like a good friend, like his equal. So we had an appointment for this morning to discuss a fixed date. I went at eleven, and was out t quarter past. Turned out he actually wanted to sleep with me first - as a sort of 'thanks', he said. I mean I have heard once that it is not your talent that counts in the art world, but with whom you sleep. I just never expected it to happen for real - not to an insignificant little artist like me anyway. Of course I told him there's no way I'm doing that - still sort of stupidly hoping he'd understand as a friend, and since he has a daughter the same age as Isa. But no, it turns out, 'in that cas he can do nothing for me'. And, by the way, 'he doesn't find my work particularly good either'. I don't know if my work really is crap - I just wish he had been a little less cruel about it, you know. And I haven't a clue how I'm suppose to tell my husband this. Pretty much feel like bursting into hysterical tears or laughter - I don't know. Can't say I've ever been this dissappointed before, and I'm not sure how one copes with it. Not sure how I'm supposed to carry on with my work either, since I' e just heard that it's actually been crap all along. What a strange, empty experience. Never realized that it could be so lonely doing something that you hope to share with others. The fact that I am by now probably not capable of doing anything but my worthless, crap art makes it sort of difficult to think about the future. Some days one just shouldn't bother to get up."}, {"response": 145, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (05:36)", "body": "You know, give me his name, and I can have someone there in twenty-fours to re-educate the \"person\" on the correct manners with a lady... I'm sorry this happened, Riette, and I have no idea on what to tell you to do next...perhaps you should have an exhibition here next year when you visit and/or send me more scans of your art and we can go about setting you up a \"virtual gallery\" on the web so that you can sell your art from there (here)... *hugs my far-away friend*"}, {"response": 146, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (05:55)", "body": "Wer, you are an incredibly nice man, has anyone ever told you that? Anyway, I've more or less stopped shaking now, so it feels better already. What a surreal day. The virtual gallery sounds great - I'd love to do something like that - if I can find it in myself to carry on. Right now I'm not so sure whether I even want to. I don't think I really have the temperament to be an artist - never did. If I carry on, this will happen again, and it's just not the kind of crap I can deal with. I had difficulties in the beginning, then for a while it was better (while I thought I had somebody 'real' believing in me) but I was wrong, and stupid to let myself be deceived, a d I know now that I am just not able to deal with this strange, ridiculous cuccoon world that one has to become a part of in order to achieve something. It isn't real, it isn't truthful. I could never live with success if it came from prostituting myself - because that is what it really is. Buying one's way through life. It's not for me, it could never make me happy, and I need to be happy in order to function properly. Perhaps it wasn't meant to be anything but a way of spending my time. Well, mayb I have to get my head clear before rushing into any decisions about the future. I'm rambling. Sorry."}, {"response": 147, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (05:58)", "body": "tis okay, just put your head back on my shoulder..."}, {"response": 148, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (06:00)", "body": "besides, you've still got the jazz album covers..."}, {"response": 149, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (06:08)", "body": "Hmm, that's nice - just don't let go. You're right, I do - and a commission to design 20 different CD covers for a limited edition of 200 CD's - some commemorative thing, I'm not sure yet, which I landed last week. Bad money, of course, but the lack of bull$hit more than makes up for it. You sure know how to make one feel better. At least I have until then to make up my mind about continuing, or stopping. That's a bit comforting. I hate Art."}, {"response": 150, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (06:10)", "body": "Damn, I have to go now - supposed to lunch in town with Chris today. Dreading it. At least I haven't cried, so I don't have to face him with red eyes. God, I hate dissappointing people."}, {"response": 151, "author": "wer", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (06:28)", "body": "we'll chat more later, okay? with the \"accidental\" logo for the Spring, and your album covers, consider Commercial Art as long as you're considering..."}, {"response": 152, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (09:02)", "body": "riette, i'm so sorry that stupid ignorant man put you through all that. is there a program for sexual harrassment-you know, where you can turn that dumbarse in? and DO NOT let that idiot tell you anything about your work. you ARE a damned good artist and i enjoy your pieces. So, when can we all go beat the heck out of him? *big hugs* and do tell your husband, i think it builds the trust, and who knows, maybe he'll go beat the heck outta the guy himself!"}, {"response": 153, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (10:21)", "body": "riette, i am so sorry to hear about what that maggot did to you. the guy deserves to have the shit beat out of him. whatever opinions he has about anything, particulary your art, are insignificant. you should be angry about this, but don't internalize it to the point where his opinion matters. he's no man, that's for sure."}, {"response": 154, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (10:32)", "body": "Thank you for all that, Wolf. Afraid he didn't harrass me - if only he did, I would have kicked him in the balls and felt better for it. But he asked me to sleep with him as one would ask someone for a telephone number or something. That's what made the whole thing so surreal and ridiculous. The sleaziness of it under all that charm and civilized behaviour - and that is what GETS me. That is what doesn't make art worth the effort. You work your butt off just to be told to sleep with the people who a e supposed to give you a break, the effort and time in the end don't count. I could've drawn stick men, and the result would be the same, so why the hell bother? All I want is to do my art, to have an exhibition or two a year, and to be left alone for the rest of it. I don't want the stupid interviews, the stupid vernisages, the stupid artist crowd around me, because those things have NOTHING to do with art. It is all about money and social standing. Two of the things that I don't happen to value. F r me art is a thing one does to express what goes on in one's head, and hopefully this thing will give other people pleasure too. For 'real' artists art is about how many dicks or cunts you can fit in around a faceless head in a wishing well on a canvas the size of an airfield, getting a couple of million for it, and being hailed a genius, because people are too vain to admit that they're too stupid to understand the point of it - which the artist bloody well knows doesn't exist. Big con act. And I jus don't see the point of licking con-act-arse. I'm afraid I still haven't told Chris. Guess I'm afraid he'll be dissappointed - which is silly, I know. I just have this thing about dissappointing people, and about showing weakness. One of those conditioning things that I haven't managed to uncondition in practice yet. Perhaps this is the time to start. I think he'll be more dissappointed if I don't tell him the truth, than if I tell him it wasn't the stupid pictures the guy was interested in after all. God, what a pain. Don't know why he couldn t have married one of his fellow Oxford or Cambridge students when he was 25, like everone else. At least she would have been worth the trouble. Damn it, and damn self-pity."}, {"response": 155, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (10:33)", "body": "Thank you, Ray. You guys are so supportive - that's why I keep coming back."}, {"response": 156, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (11:21)", "body": "girlfriend, yes he DID harrass you. it doesn't matter if it happens once, sweetie. chris married you because he saw the treasure that you are. and you are a real artist. art is truly personal and the fact that you share yours is an honor for me. he still deserved a good kick. i can't believe he came right out and asked you. who the hell does he think he is. you find yourself another art gallery. and if you can't find one there, we'll find you one here. tell your husband, sweetheart. my husband knows everything about me-and loves me anyway, even the deep ugly stuff....*big fat hug*"}, {"response": 157, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (15:05)", "body": "Thank you, my friend. I don't think you probably have deep stuff, but ugly stuff? No way! You are such a nice woman. I told Chris as soon as the girls went to bed, and of course he doesn't hate me. Unfortunately in this country the law is on the side of men, and he says the police probably not even LET me file a complaint, since I'm African and female, whereas this guy is a successful SWISS businessman. But he rang the guy, shouted 15 minutes of abuse and threats down his throat, and has been constantly on the phone since, to spread the word amongs musicians, artists, art dealers and actors (he says he'll find anyone ho has anything REMOTELY to do with art) around the city - he knows alot of those because of his work. I somehow fear that my face is going to be in some stupid art paper by Monday - the one artist who was too peevish to 'handle' her career. I hate this damned place. But at least so will his, the arsehole. Chris thinks I'm wrong, but there is NO WAY I'm working with or for anyone other than myself again. The galleries AND their bosses can go to hell for all I care. From now on I organize my own godda ned exhibitions, even if I have to pay a thousand a week to hire a place. Either I do it on my own from now on, or I don't do it at all, and that's that. I've had enough of this art fart crap. It just isn't my thing. Either I DO something or I don't - no IFS, no BUTS. Christ, I'm so angry, I could climb up a wall."}, {"response": 158, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (15:11)", "body": "that's good, to feel it instead of letting it rot you inside. your husband is so brave and so are you. and should you decide to really open your own gallery, i'm behind you all the way and i think i speak for the others, we'd be your first customers (if not in person, in spirit). you go girl!"}, {"response": 159, "author": "patas", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (15:58)", "body": "Riette, I've just dropped in and read what happened. Please don't let that jerk sink your self-esteem. You know, this has nothing to do with you, or your work, it's just the way that man is, and the way that the world is. As Wolf puts it, yes you have been harassed, as many other women have been. If you lived in the US, you'd probably be able to file a complaint - where that would take you I have no idea. As it is, your husband did a very good job in showing his support of you and his anger - I think ;-) Sexual harassment is alive and rearing its ugly head in all professions. I've been subject to it, as probably have some of the others here, albeit in a more elegant way...if there is such a thing... Art is not objectively measurable, and therefore your work will please some people and mean nothing to others. What is important is the pleasure it gives you . So don't stop just because someone called it crap, but remember that even the great ones aren't consensual. Myself, I enjoyed your acrylics very much. The oil I liked less, which is only natural since you do not yet master its technique - it is different! I want to try my hand at watercolous and haven't got the courage yet... I didn't know you were of African origin, and found your colours and subjects very warm for a Swiss! ;-)By all means keep painting, as long as you feel the drive. You see, we all want to ride with you :-) Go for it!"}, {"response": 160, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (23:12)", "body": "Whoa, what a day you've had, Riette. I can't believe that pig! Reminds me of the photographers that sleep with models in exchange for a free photo shoot--and then turn out to not have any film in the camera. Man, this would burn me up for weeks. But the important thing is not to take it personally; as you said, this is de rigeur for artists to sleep w/gallery owners, so you've got to toughen your skin and spit in the face of the next jerk who tries it. Besides, you're hittting him where it hurts--Chr s blackballing him all over town will hurt his reputation, which can be fatal. You just let your determination take over and you'll recover--any girl who jumped off a roof every day to avoid going to school can bounce back from this insult."}, {"response": 161, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (01:40)", "body": "Thanks, you two. Nice to have you back, Gi. I'm pretty much okay. Merely dissappointed. But I know I will carry on in the end - as you say, Gi, there is ALOT of room for improvement with the oils, it is hugely different from acryllics, and I love that sort of challenge. I love seeing how one's work slowly evolves when you take on a new kind of paint or painting technique, how one slowly gains control. So the reasons are purely selfish, I think, but who cares. As long as they're there. And, yes, why the hell don't we create a fancy virtual gallery?"}, {"response": 162, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (12:11)", "body": "why not, indeed..."}, {"response": 163, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (14:02)", "body": "now, back to Zoe's portfolio... \"Sunny Buildings\" Zoe Roland"}, {"response": 164, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (16:57)", "body": "look at all the doors within doors! really neat. so when will Zoe be opening her exhibit?"}, {"response": 165, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (02:13)", "body": "Gorgeous!!! This girl of yours has some excellent ideas, Wer!"}, {"response": 166, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (02:53)", "body": "\"BlockBuster Video\" Zoe Roland"}, {"response": 167, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (07:17)", "body": "WOW! This is a great great programme! It obviously gives her alot of fabulous ideas for that creative little mind. Not been able to find it here yet though."}, {"response": 168, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (12:07)", "body": "cool!"}, {"response": 169, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (21:46)", "body": "Love the bike & motorcycle hidden amongst all those colorful tubes! Tell my, wer, the story behind the name."}, {"response": 170, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (12:13)", "body": "I asked her what she wanted to call it, and that was the answer I got..."}, {"response": 171, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (12:41)", "body": "and, while watching this one download, she said, \"She is the most goodest artist in the whole world.\" Riette 'Sleeping Beauty' August 1998"}, {"response": 172, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (12:52)", "body": "Very nice. We have the story of Sleeping Beauty on our http://www.childrenstory.com site. The techniques we use on this site could be easily adpated to a virtual art tour with a realaudio narrative."}, {"response": 173, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (15:07)", "body": "Thank you, Wer. Tell Zoe, I say thank you, and that her colourful pictures are the most coolest art in the world! Wow, Terry, I am more and more impressed by how extensive the Spring is - EVERYTHING is here! So, how does one go about organizing a virtual gallery? The picture that Wer posted is the one I did for the Spring Cam. Unfortunately I finished it one night when I couldn't sleep, and so there's only two bits that show how it got done! So here I sit with half a recorded tape! Shall I make pictures of Z\ufffdrich to fill it up with?"}, {"response": 174, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (15:18)", "body": "Isa Walton (3 years old) 'Grandma's Garden'"}, {"response": 175, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (15:52)", "body": "Isa's grandma must have a most beautiful garden! Riette, Sleeping Beauty is beautiful. You have such a sensual way with your talent and i love all the rich colors, they're full of life!"}, {"response": 176, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (15:58)", "body": "Robin wants to know how much you want for \"Sleeping Beauty\" it's her favorite of yours so far..."}, {"response": 177, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (21:25)", "body": "Sure, pictures and sounds of you tell us about Zurich would be wonderful. You can include other folks if you like. This is exciting!"}, {"response": 178, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (01:23)", "body": "Wolf, Isa's picture of Grandma's garden is done on 60cm x 80cm canvas, and hangs in the living room - it looks just great there! My work is sensual? Hey ho! Makes up for what I lack personally!!! Wer, tell your wife, I say: \"Ten dollar, Ten dollar, Missus, and I dance for you too!\" No, tell her I say thank you. She's very kind. Terry, as soon as the weather is better, I shall embark on a Z\ufffdrich theme then! ha-ha - you're going to hate the video! It's totally boring, and confused!"}, {"response": 179, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (07:24)", "body": "I was serious about the picture, hon..."}, {"response": 180, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (08:18)", "body": "I doubt that I will hate your video, Riette! Remember, talking heads. go, riette!!!"}, {"response": 181, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (13:29)", "body": "Terry, is the name, ArtCentaur.com taken? Because if I could get that one, I could design a neat logo to go with it - a Centaur jumping over the moon, what d'ya think? Wer, your wife really wants the picture? Sorry, I didn't know you were being serious, otherwise I wouldn't have made fun! I have no idea what art costs over in America, but I have a feeling it'll be quite a bit cheaper than here (I sure wouldn't be able to afford it over here either!!!), so I won't ask your wife Swiss prices. All I basically need is to cover my material costs and shipping, and make a small profit from which to live. Which comes to about $1000. How does that sound?"}, {"response": 182, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (15:59)", "body": "artcentaur.com is not registered..."}, {"response": 183, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (18:18)", "body": "use it, riette!!"}, {"response": 184, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (21:09)", "body": "[11/38] Respond, forget, or pass? !whois artcentaur.com No match for \"ARTCENTAUR.COM\". The InterNIC Registration Services database contains ONLY non-military and non-US Government Domains and contacts. Other associated whois servers: American Registry for Internet Numbers - whois.arin.net European IP Address Allocations - whois.ripe.net Asia Pacific IP Address Allocations - whois.apnic.net US Military - whois.nic.mil US Government - whois.nic.gov !"}, {"response": 185, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (01:04)", "body": "huh? So what happens now, Terry?"}, {"response": 186, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (22:50)", "body": "\"Dark Night\" Zoe Roland"}, {"response": 187, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (23:06)", "body": "contrast that one with \"Happy Life\" Zoe Roland"}, {"response": 188, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (23:09)", "body": "So, when is the ArtCentaur Virtual Gallery and Design Studio gonna open up?"}, {"response": 189, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (01:17)", "body": "Zoe's pictures are gorgeous!!! She seems a very happy little creature - all her pictures are so happy! Her input here is very much appreciated - and she's obviously got her father's computering talents! How old did you say she was? The gallery is opening up AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! Shall I create a topic within this conference, where we can discuss the whole thing? I mean, you need to tell me how creating such a page would work, and we'll have to find the best possible layout - of which you know a heck of a lot more than me."}, {"response": 190, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (07:50)", "body": "man, i'm so excited! i love Zoe's pictures, they are very happy!"}, {"response": 191, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (08:53)", "body": "I'll get a \"demo\" site going that we can fiddle with..."}, {"response": 192, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (09:05)", "body": "Gosh, I can't wait!!!! This is the sort of thing that'll give me sleepless nights for the sheer excitement of it!"}, {"response": 193, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (21:05)", "body": "Great stuff going on in this topic! I love \"Happy Life\", wer. If life focused more on jello and teddy bears, the world would be a better place!"}, {"response": 194, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (00:51)", "body": "hear hear"}, {"response": 195, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep 19, 1998 (20:50)", "body": "First Computer Picture by Sophia, age 5"}, {"response": 196, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep 19, 1998 (20:51)", "body": "oh, she embellished it with ink after looking it over for a few days. she's happy with it now."}, {"response": 197, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Sep 21, 1998 (21:13)", "body": "I like her use of space, Wolf! Mine so often clutter everything in one part of the paper and don't fan the images out to make it so easy on the eyes."}, {"response": 198, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Sep 21, 1998 (21:33)", "body": "i think she was trying to incorporate every image at her disposal! she thought it was pretty neat to see it show up in here not to mention the scanning part!"}, {"response": 199, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 21, 1998 (21:43)", "body": "Such a sweet picture - I love the 'embellishing' bit. And I can't help but detect a hint of patriotism there...."}, {"response": 200, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (12:43)", "body": "I found someone new for the art conference, her name is Mahalene, from Paris, and she's moving in to my Cedar Creek place in the next week or two. She does art on silk and has an industrial strength wheat grass juicer. She's a very nice person."}, {"response": 201, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (13:34)", "body": "BRILLIANT, Terry!! Get her over here - she is utterly welcome!"}, {"response": 202, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (20:46)", "body": "And over to cultures to parler francais!"}, {"response": 203, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 24, 1998 (01:19)", "body": "Another kind of inner..."}, {"response": 204, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Sep 25, 1998 (12:57)", "body": "Yeah, we pretty much just talk about everybody here at the spring :-)"}, {"response": 205, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep 25, 1998 (13:03)", "body": "riette: i tried to scan the birdhouse but didn't have enough cord---nooo, i didn't drag the scanner out to the birdhouse!! hi autumn :)"}, {"response": 206, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Sep 25, 1998 (14:01)", "body": "HA-HA!! How's it going, Wolf?"}, {"response": 207, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep 25, 1998 (20:02)", "body": "one word or less? BUSY!!!!!"}, {"response": 208, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (00:38)", "body": "What are you up to, Girl? What keeps you so busy? Just work?"}, {"response": 209, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (21:42)", "body": "heck yeah!! and then there's my son's homework, daughter's gymnastics, intramural bowling league..."}, {"response": 210, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (22:04)", "body": "Oh, tell me about! Brownies, Sunday School, tap & ballet...did someone say I have to attend another meeting??"}, {"response": 211, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 27, 1998 (03:41)", "body": "ha-ha! We're not quite there yet. Though I've signed the girls and me up for music/rhythm classes at the consi for parents and toddlers - starting beginning of next year. That's probably how all that starts, hey?"}, {"response": 212, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep 27, 1998 (16:52)", "body": "yup, you're in it now, riette!"}, {"response": 213, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 28, 1998 (01:07)", "body": "Oh dear - hope I can keep up with them. At least they're so close in age that they always fall into the same age group - which means fewer trips. Until they decide to do different things, that is...."}, {"response": 214, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Oct 19, 1998 (19:47)", "body": "riette: here's the long awaited birdhouse! Birdhouse by Wolf acrylic on wood"}, {"response": 215, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Oct 19, 1998 (19:48)", "body": "well, the colors didn't come out right. hmmm...."}, {"response": 216, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Oct 20, 1998 (01:15)", "body": "Oh, wow! That's really really pretty, Wolf! Almost like the shadows of leaves and flowers in the moonlight. Love it."}, {"response": 217, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Oct 20, 1998 (09:21)", "body": "Even though the colors are kind of murky, wolf, I can still tell how pretty it is. It almost has a Japanese flavor to it."}, {"response": 218, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Oct 20, 1998 (16:33)", "body": "you guys are much too kind. the shadows are a result of the light bouncing back off the roof (from putting the birdhouse directly on the scanner)! but it does look kind of neat the way it came out...."}, {"response": 219, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct 21, 1998 (03:45)", "body": "Very neat. Do you find that you're improving all the time - getting more comfortable at it?"}, {"response": 220, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Oct 21, 1998 (09:14)", "body": "well, i don't paint very often, but each time my confidence improves when i see what i can do....birdhouses are popular in decorating right now. the two that i painted are to be used outdoors (and one of them housed four clutches of sparrows). this is why i like them because they actually get used."}, {"response": 221, "author": "sonja", "date": "Wed, Oct 21, 1998 (10:20)", "body": "I would have loved to have been artistic."}, {"response": 222, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Oct 21, 1998 (18:23)", "body": "everybody has their own talents, the trick is to find it (them) and cultivate it."}, {"response": 223, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (03:47)", "body": "Sonja IS an artist at what she does, believe me. When we were both still living in Windhoek, Namibia, I sometimes went with her when she got emergency calls. And she was amazing! The way she kept the patients calm, and reassured, her gentleness to them - that's better than art. It gives people something REAL."}, {"response": 224, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (05:44)", "body": "Is Sonja trained in emergency medicine also?"}, {"response": 225, "author": "sonja", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (09:40)", "body": "Not really, but it's more or less inevitable to pick things up in this line of work. I mean, alot of the people who come in from car accidents with injuries haven't the slightest chance of surviving, and you know it - the scanning too easily becomes just a last official medical procedure before they're carried off to ICU to die. So it's a matter of making their last hour or so as comfortable as possible. That's the tough part."}, {"response": 226, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (09:53)", "body": "but to give them hope, because you never know what miracles are waiting to happen. you must be an angel to them, sonja. and riette, your art is real. you take nothing and make something with it. i believe we are all given our talents for a purpose and it's up to us to do something with it. and it doesn't matter how we see the purpose (whether big or small) all of it comes together for the whole."}, {"response": 227, "author": "sonja", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (13:46)", "body": "Not an angel - but at least THERE, I hope, Wolf."}, {"response": 228, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct 23, 1998 (01:22)", "body": "Don't underestimate your power of giving - I've seen it, and it's amazing."}, {"response": 229, "author": "sonja", "date": "Fri, Oct 23, 1998 (10:05)", "body": "You're my best friend in the world."}, {"response": 230, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Oct 25, 1998 (01:33)", "body": "And you mine."}, {"response": 231, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (15:22)", "body": "Hey, y'all! SHUT UP! NOW! LISTEN! That's: L I S T E N ! YOU HEAR ME: L I S T E N !!! Ok, thank you for your attention. Come close, so I don't hafta shout, alright? Will you please stop whatever you do, thougth to do or planned to do AND GIT TO IT! CREATE MORE, that is M O R E ART ! \"This personal attack is brought to you by Adrenalino-Fix, the 100% pure Adrenaline fix - only a smack in the face works better!\""}, {"response": 232, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (15:27)", "body": "(Gosh, this is my art - and I'm always look so cute and pathetic doing it...)"}, {"response": 233, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (15:30)", "body": "*laugh* cute and pathetic... the way to every artistic woman's heart... Encore, ENcore, ENCORE!"}, {"response": 234, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (15:36)", "body": "ok, rrrhnmm, ahem: O K ! G I M M E M O R E A R T ! ! !"}, {"response": 235, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (15:38)", "body": "And you know you must obey THE EDITOR FROM HELL!"}, {"response": 236, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (16:33)", "body": "I am so glad I looked all the way through this gallery before I made a huge fool if myself. Talented children are treasures to be nurtured and encouraged. Talented fathers, in ways I never even imagined, even moreso. Riette, you have a true treasure here. Your gifts are so overwhelming, I am just going to be quiet and look. Thank you for enabling me to have my own version of \"eye candy\""}, {"response": 237, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (17:22)", "body": "Ok, now that I have really looked through here, everyone is talented except for me. I am more sorry about that than you are, but there it is. Wolf, I adore your birds! Love your first oil, too. But where did all of the creative juices go? We need more art!!!"}, {"response": 238, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (08:12)", "body": "I plead guilty. I've been neglecting the conference horribly. THat's because I got lazy for finding trying hours on end to find the pics I want to put into the conference on the web. It's just too damned expensive on my phone bill, what with all the calls to America and Africa on top of it. But I have a few new pics to show - I just have to have the film developed. Be warned though: my recent lack of enthusiasm is reflected rather pathetically in what I've done so far this year. My mind just hasn't been on it properly, because the studies are interesting. I do have a few things to put into comic art. Marcia, could I post them to you to put in? 'Cos I don't know how to do it, and Wer used to do it for me."}, {"response": 239, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (12:29)", "body": "And why doesn't he do it anymore?"}, {"response": 240, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (13:15)", "body": "'Cos I can't mail him."}, {"response": 241, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (13:44)", "body": "This is true =) I am more than happy to help, Ree. It looks lovely in here and over there now, too! (as though the man did not have enough to do...)"}, {"response": 242, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep  4, 1999 (18:34)", "body": "just send em to me, ree, sweetie, and i'll put them up!"}, {"response": 243, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (01:44)", "body": "Thanks, Girl!!! Will do, as soon as my film is full, and I get it developed. When do we get to see yours again, eh?"}, {"response": 244, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (19:09)", "body": "oh my, the ink well has dried up and so has the paints...what can i say? guess i have to wait for the filler-upper to stop by again *grin*"}, {"response": 245, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (01:09)", "body": "Well, then tell him to get his butt over there!"}, {"response": 246, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (01:22)", "body": "*nudge* *ootch* *stumble*....I think I am not needed by the artists anymore. I can post pictures and stuff like that...Look at Comic art stuff...It is about as close to doing real art as I get aside from my T-shirts. I will be delighted to post pictures for anyone so desiring!"}, {"response": 247, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (05:14)", "body": "So that means I've now got two slaves to choose from. Oh good! I LOVE POWERRRRR!"}, {"response": 248, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (11:19)", "body": "...Ree's tripping...! I will go back to Geo and crack rocks - that is where I truly belong, not in here with the gifted and gorgeous."}, {"response": 249, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (00:59)", "body": "The gifted and gorgeous?? Where are those bitches?! I'll kick 'em out for you, no problem!"}, {"response": 250, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (01:08)", "body": "(...Ooops...I just checked Babes Conference...they are US!!! Better get along, I guess, lest our gorgeousness gets black-and-blued...)"}, {"response": 251, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (11:04)", "body": "Or pinked and oranged and yellowed and greened!"}, {"response": 252, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (14:35)", "body": "...and in tastefully arranged stripes, no less...*grin*"}, {"response": 253, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (15:03)", "body": "That'll only if I hug you - that's what I really want to do."}, {"response": 254, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (15:08)", "body": "...and do I really need a hug right now....*Hugs* *sniff*...*sniff*"}, {"response": 255, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (16:06)", "body": "\ufffdBIG BIG HUG\ufffd"}, {"response": 256, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (16:18)", "body": "*sniff*...ooooooh...aaaaaah...*sigh*....*smile* Thank you!!! *BigBigHugs*"}, {"response": 257, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (17:53)", "body": "*tapping foot anxiously* and where's *gulp* mine? *head hangind down afraid of the answer* by the way, ree, your pics in comics were great!! i loved the birds and snake the most, but i could see the caracatures of those famous people you mentioned!"}, {"response": 258, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (18:05)", "body": "*HUGS* for Wolfie!!! (me too...going back to comics to see the charactures (however it is spelled!)"}, {"response": 259, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (18:07)", "body": "...and how are you doing this morning, my fine furry friend? I thought about you a lot...!"}, {"response": 260, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (18:09)", "body": "Out, bold writing!!! Alakazam!!!"}, {"response": 261, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (18:25)", "body": "Oh Ree! My letter back to you is undeliverable four hours after I wrote it. I will paste it here if all else fails...or under something of yours in inner...I just wanted you to know that things are OK...and understood and all good things."}, {"response": 262, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (21:04)", "body": "marcia, thanks for the hugs, needed them as it was hard to concentrate at work today. am still really in shock, though."}, {"response": 263, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (21:07)", "body": "Want to talk about it? My email is open and I am \"IN\" *hugs*"}, {"response": 264, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (21:14)", "body": "thanks! poured out my soul to one of my newest friends *wink* and am plum wore out. in fact, my head is really hurting. i'll talk with you later, marcia! thanks and much *hugs*"}, {"response": 265, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (21:46)", "body": "Any time...*hugs*"}, {"response": 266, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  8, 1999 (02:32)", "body": "Wolfie, are you okay?? What is the matter? I hope you've not had a blow because of Marcia and me, because we set about working it out straight away. And if it is something else; I hope your friend can help you make it better. \ufffdBIG HUG\ufffd I hope you got my reply too, Marcia. I'm not angry at all."}, {"response": 267, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Sep  8, 1999 (22:06)", "body": "no, i've already responded to that stuff *hugs* luvs you guys! ree, just hurting and confused about a friend's death (see obits). marcia was kind enough to listen to me go on and on. thanks for asking though *smile*"}, {"response": 268, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep  8, 1999 (22:40)", "body": "What great ladies you are...how infinite your wisdom and capacity to understand and heal (after a good lecturing)...one is never too old to hear these things. *Big Happy Hugs*"}, {"response": 269, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (00:18)", "body": "Joins in on the group hug!"}, {"response": 270, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (00:27)", "body": "*Big Terry-encompassing HUGS*"}, {"response": 271, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (03:37)", "body": "Wolfie, I'm so so sorry."}, {"response": 272, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (17:59)", "body": "thanks sweetie......am still in disbelief :("}, {"response": 273, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (17:06)", "body": "*belated hug*"}, {"response": 274, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (15:33)", "body": ""}, {"response": 275, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (15:36)", "body": ""}, {"response": 276, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (20:22)", "body": "where's the pic?"}, {"response": 277, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (20:33)", "body": "For the gallery opening? I do not have permission and he is out of the country right now."}, {"response": 278, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (20:33)", "body": "never mind, the hr is the pic that's not showing *grin*"}, {"response": 279, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (20:38)", "body": "as for the ruined art, I have no idea..! Will post more when I know more. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 13, "subject": "The Fourth \"R\" in Education", "response_count": 47, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (12:07)", "body": "Early one morning, a man was walking along a bluff overlooking the ocean when he noticed a barefoot woman on the beach, clearly engrossed in a strange activity. She was picking up starfish that had been washed ashore by the tide and, one by one, throwing them back into the sea. Intrigued, he scrambled down the bank of the cliff and approached her. \"What are you doing?\" he asked. \"I'm saving starfish,\" she answered, gently tossing another into the water. The man let his eyes drift over the endless shoreline in wonder. \"But,\" he stammered, \"there are thousands of starfish stranded on this beach. You can't save them all!\" \"I know.\" The woman smiled, picked up another starfish, and returned it to the ocean. \"But I'm saving this one.\" She continued undaunted, \"And this one. And this one.\" Those starfish languishing on the barren sand are the youth of America. They have been swept up onto the beachhead of ignorance and sloth by the tide of our failed progressive educational system. It falls to us now, those of us who understand the deep purposes of education, to save the future generation. We can do this by returning our children, one by one, back to the sea of structured creativity, where each individual child - by nature of being a child - can be taught to swim toward the promise of adulthood. To help accomplish this task, I propose that we incorporate art education into the core curriculum. Art educates the whole person as an integrated individual. It educates the senses, it educates the mind, and it educates the emotions. It educates the soul."}, {"response": 2, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (21:48)", "body": "Here, here, I'm all for that. And music, and foreign language...."}, {"response": 3, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (23:59)", "body": "I'll finish the installments of the rest of the article as soon as I can..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (00:57)", "body": "Creativity is therapy."}, {"response": 5, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (02:14)", "body": "The Core Curriculum It was at Hillsdale College six years ago that I announced the formation of American Renaissance for the Twenty-First Century. I marvel at the good distance we have come since that time. The foundation's mission of promoting a rebirth of beauty and life- affirming values in all the fine arts is, of course, not only for the purpose of improving the arts but also for the purpose elevating our entire culture. It is an ambitious mission that poses great challenges. These challenges take many forms, not just in the arena of the fine arts but in the arena of ideas--especially ideas that rule our educational system. Let us remember that the three \"Rs\" of education--reading, writing, and arithmetic--were not instituted in schools just to help the populace read the daily papers, write letters home to Mom, and pay bills owed to the general store. These primary skills are taught for the larger purpose of instructing students to think critically and constructively. School, in other words, is and should be meant to prepare young people for life. Reading teaches students to comprehend the world and their place in it. Writing teaches them to communicate, develop arguments, and persuade. Arithmetic teaches them to measure attributes, grasp reality, and bring the physical universe into perspective. These are the basics. Over time, most schools have made science mandatory, as well as physical education (which is beneficial, except when-- too often!--soccer wins over syntax!). However, mastery of the basics is not really expected of most students anymore, and the core curriculum has become so diluted as to be meaningless. Academic subjects are regularly adulterated and distorted in the name of \"political correctness,\" while the very notion of truth is cast into doubt. In light of these problems, we need to remind ourselves why certain studies should be mandatory in the first place. It used to be a truism that students cannot effectively direct their own education. They don't yet know what it is that they don't know. Teachers and parents should set the principal standards of education. And they should presume that a certain level of knowledge and mastery of basic sub- jects is necessary if students are to lead productive and informed lives."}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (04:09)", "body": "hear hear"}, {"response": 7, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 31, 1998 (11:09)", "body": "Why Fine Arts Education? It is with these thoughts in mind that I propose not only a restoration of the old-fashioned three \"Rs\" but an addition: art education - specifically, fine arts education in the established Western tradition. The reason for focusing on art forms evolving from our Western heritage is that the forms themselves, the physical presentations, are the most malleable, with the richest aesthetic vocabulary for expressing the most complex ideas. The Western tradition began with the ancient Greeks, was revived during the Renaissance, and was still going strong through the nineteenth century. Sadly, it has been absent or under attack during most of the twentieth century, but it is resurfacing with vigor as we approach the millennium. Art in the Western tradition is an intelligible aesthetic representation of the world and of humanity. Its primary forms are painting, sculpture, poetry, literature, drama, music, and architecture. A working knowledge in all the fine arts will facilitate an appreciation of them, but protracted study is critical for advanced perceptual and conceptual development. Why should the teaching of fine arts become the fourth \"R\"? Because to teach art is to teach life. Each lifetime, in its own way, has a \"theme,\" an ever-unfolding personal destiny, scripted by the individual. Every good work of art is just the same: First, it is an idea in the mind of the artist - a mental abstraction, a vision seen through the \"mind's eye.\" Then it goes through the aesthetic process of transformation from mental vision into physical object or experience that can be perceived through the senses and the intellect of others - that can be understood . Finally, it takes on a life of its own to be enjoyed and considered as an individual entity, an end in itself, just like every human being. Because human beings have free will, they choose their values by a process of selection. This is why character development and the development of art so similar. They are both self-created. Learning a demanding art form promotes both curiosity and confidence that can be transferred to real-live situations. How does it do this? Let us take the benefits of art education one at a time: Sensory education, using painting as our example; mental education, using creative writing as our example; and emotional education, using music as our example. These examples should not be construed as mutually exclusive. Happily, each art form augments the lessons learned in all the others to educate the whole person. Painting and music have their own aesthetic vaocabulary appealing primarily to a different sense organ, as fiction appeals to all the combined senses through imagination. Equally important, every art form is rooted in a discipline of craft, and learning the techniques of any craft teaches purpose, structure, observation, selectivity of essentials, and judgment of execution with verifiable outcome. In other words, the proficiency of the means employed and the end results can be assessed on the basis of objective criteria. Furthermore, disciplined but ductile (i.e., malleable) art forms can be endlessly manipulated and styled to provide aesthetic emphasis, as well as to dramatize ideas and content."}, {"response": 8, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jul 31, 1998 (21:29)", "body": "Hallelujah!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug  1, 1998 (00:05)", "body": "What Art Teaches Observing Reality To take our first example: We can readily grasp how creating what seems to be the simplest of paintings requires knowledge of drawing, color, shape, composition, and perspective - knowledge derived not only from technical training but also from close observation of reality. Once a student has learned to render the three dimensional world of nature in this two-dimensional form, enjoyment and appreciation for the real world automatically become enriched with keener ovservations. In order to paint a single tree, a student really has to look at it. How his sense of seeing will be improved! What nuances of color alone will he notice in the future because of these acute observations? What varieties of textures, edges, and shapes gleaned from scrutinizing fragile, scalloped leaf formations will enhance his everyday experience of the patterns made by interlacing shadows, the woven surfaces of fabrics, or the eyelashes of a newborn infant? To imitate nature, the student must observe nature."}, {"response": 10, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug  2, 1998 (18:21)", "body": "I love this book/essay, wer, what is it? Let's hear more!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Aug  3, 1998 (00:10)", "body": "Making Judgments Interpreting nature through painting - consciously creating a mood - will benefit the student even more because it requires developing a process of selection in order to fulfill a larger intention, that of endowing the work with significance. Subject matter is then employed indirectly to express something more. Now, questions arise as to which observations are most relevant to that deeper intention. Those graceful veins in the leaves - are they important enough to delineate, or should he just suggest them? What of the bark sheathing the trunk? Since the student wants a serene feeling, should he apply the paint thinly with light brushstrokes to de-emphasize the rough surface? In order to create an atmosphere that stresses the mysteries of nature, should he push the blue of the sky toward violet? Because this next level of art teaches how to formulate a hierarchy in the selection of essentials, it also increases his contemplation of the relative importance of all things in life, large and small."}, {"response": 12, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug  5, 1998 (08:43)", "body": "Understanding the Human Condition Inherent in the process of exercising sensory perceptions, the student must by necessity also exercise his mind. And beyond this first horizon of sense-mind interplay lies the limitless vista of imagination. Meaningful art is not just a mimicry of life; it is an inquiry into the human condition, an expressive exploration of man's desires, dreams, fears, and fantasies. Important art is im- portant because it is multi-layered, stimulating the senses, touching the heart, and awakening the mind to great verities and great possibilities. Aesthetics, then, become the means to art's supreme end: content . Content is inseparable from the underlying theme of a work; it is that, but it is much, much more: Ultimately, it is the human spirit incarnate - the shimmering breath of light streaming from a thoughtful artist's mind, hands, and soul."}, {"response": 13, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug  5, 1998 (08:45)", "body": "It's an article from Imprimis, Autumn. More on that at the beginning of this topic, and I'll put up more about it after I finally get all this typed in..."}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug  5, 1998 (11:24)", "body": "Very very interesting. Thank you for creating this topic, Wer."}, {"response": 15, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (17:53)", "body": "Expressing Values Through meticulous crafting, the content becomes a theme illuminating itself. It resides within and emanates from the art as a pure result of the artist's purposeful and personal attempt to imbue it with intelligent meaning. It is great art's \"anima,\" or inner self; both source and sum, it is the substantive realization of the arrtist's deepest values, true or false, good or bad, beautiful or ugly. And here is where the moral imagination fully enters into the creative process, for even a novice approach to this highest level of art educates the mind philosophically. Let us use creative writing as an example. Because literature is a conceptual transmission from the mind of a writer to the mind of a reader, it becomes, whether a wide avenue or a narrow labyrinth, an enchanting passage to the imagination. It takes us on a journey of ideas, not to what is but to what could be and might be. Good fiction compels the author to weave a theme through the events of a story and actions of the characters. Assuming craft, the more universal and fundamental the theme, the greater the fiction (which is a big assumption since most fiction today, as most art, lacks theme), the student first creates scenes in his imagination and then creates heightened visions of all that is possible. Gradually, as he learns to distill his thoughts and to communicate through the techniques of narrative, description, dialogue, metaphor, and dramatization, his imagination is freed to create whatever he can dream up! New questions arise: Is this idea true? How is truth determined? Is it relevant to all human beings or just a few? Or only me? Are my characters understandable? Are they behaving morally or immorally and why? Are their actions motivated by their value systems? Because the written arts are conceptual in form, those who create them have an opportunity to explore the moral imagination directly. An artist's value system is consciously or unconsciously inherent in every work of art. This is so precisely because, as we have seen, the process of creating art requires the author to pay special attention to the internal lives of fictional individuals. How does he make up fictional human beings so as to render them believable? He does so by infusing their thoughts, utterances, and actions with values . As readers, we understand that we come to \"know\" fictional people largely the same way we learn to know real-life people: We discern their underlying \"character\" by observing their actions and listening to them. A rational person selects his values through the use of reason and logic, making sure that the values are consonant with nature and human nature. If they are, they will be life- serving values. If they are life-serving values, they will be moral. If a person (or a character) acts only on these values, his actions will be moral. If his actions are moral, he will be moral. If the author wishes to present an immoral character, he will create a fictional person who acts consciously against sound values. And just think of all the in-betweens, the conflicted characters! By learning creative writing skills, a student can play out real conflicts in an imaginitive setting with imagined people. Talk about a chance to explore ideas, issues, behavior, and psychology in a safe environment!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (01:27)", "body": "This is mega interesting stuff, Wer. Thank you for creating this topic - I've never even thought about many of the things I read here, and one should. Thought enhances creativity."}, {"response": 17, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (10:53)", "body": "Training the Mind As the visual arts train the senses by honing physical perceptions of the world, so the art of writing trains the mind by demanding conceptual formations and philosophical views of the world. If the student is engaged in both art forms, what he learns in one will reinforce what he learns in the other, beginning an interactive process with incalculable power to foster discreet subtleties of awareness and sensitivity in every walk of life. Moreover, the student learns lessons about how to be alone; how to enjoy kairos or the fullness of time so much as to forget time as chronos ; how to experiment boldly; how to make learning and discovery an adventure; how to rejoice in the endeavor."}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (10:58)", "body": "Is this from a book, Wer? What is the name of it - this is the sort of stuff I'd love to read in peace and quiet in bed."}, {"response": 19, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (18:23)", "body": "Really!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (00:43)", "body": "Uniting Reason and Emotion Lastly, but perhaps first in today's world of rampant subjectivism and temperamental indulgence, the arts educate the emotions. Not everyone is passionate-passion is the fervent intensity of emotion a person experiences only when he is exhibiting the highest level of devotion to values-but everyone has feelings, if only instinctual fears or desires. And all feelings, whether complex or primitive, mentally inspired or physically excited, can be conveyed productively and safely through the structure of an art form. In this way, the pubescent youngster in particular can learn to deal constructively with feelings often so strong he doesn't know what to do with them; he can actually \"work them out\" through the creation of art. This doesn't mean he wallows in an \"Express yourself!\" state of mind nor does it mean he need psychotherapy. It means he is displaying healthy emotional flowering and psychological growth. All art training nurtures this, but music is indispensable for guiding psychological development because it speaks directly to the sentient consciousness. One might say that music is emotion- because feelings are its primary themes. The instrument chosen to channel music's emotional flow, whether it be piano, clarinet, violin, or voice, is not important. Learning to master the instrument is. The discipline of serious music is exact and exacting, teaching the precision of mathematics in a poetic realm as well as the exhilarating balance and the exalted integration of \"reasoned harmony\" (music's form) and emotions (music's content). It is not often in our culture that children are taught to unite reason and emotion. Tonal and melodic classical music does this for all of us. So the competence to hear it and to appreciate it as a practitioner can be a rare source of indescribable pleasure and a safe emotional release. Like life, musical passages contain highs and lows, fast and slow tempos. The musical vocabulary includes dissonance and resolution, tumult and sublimity, all emboldening a student in the process of making music to feel to his heart's content within the security of a confined experience. There is no way to fall out of control because the rhythm keeps the music going. The notes must be played on time, and to orchestrate emotional content through so rigorous a structure, the student must learn to merge reason and emotion; otherwise, the resulting music will be cold and sterile, mathematics without the poetry. Classical music is too mentally demanding to permit the flailing and screaming incited by much of rock 'n' roll. It forces the musician to control his emotional output, offering him the experience of cathexis (concentration of psychic energy) rather than catharsis (purging). Because music deals with broad abstractions-triumph, defeat, love, loss-it also allows a musician to personalize the universals of the human condition, to feel on a grand scale both the hope and hurt that necessarily accompany an individual life fully lived. For the teen- ager, it unlocks gateways to mature excursions into the ecstasy and the vulnerability of love, the headiness and the hazards of risk. Once he begins to understand the value of classical music, he may turn to it in moments of emotional need to help him experience deep stirrings that may not make it to the surface of consciousness by themselves."}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:04)", "body": "Ah, that's awesome stuff! Are you guys reading this?! WOW!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (13:38)", "body": "Students of Life So we begin to see the vital importance of fine arts education, the invigorating and reinforcing spiral of experience inherent in learning the various art forms. From art form to art form and back and forth between real life and art, the senses, the intellect, and the emotions flow together, charging each other along the way with powerful images, sounds, and ideas. Students of art become students of life. Once they experience the arduous bliss of creating art, some will pursue it as a profession, of course. But the purpose of art study is not to make artists of our young people; it is to help them become complete human beings. Youth is forward emotion. And the arts can forever inspire this forward motion because they are open-ended and can continue to absorb our natural creative energies indefinitely. No art form can ever be entirely mastered because the techniques can always be further expanded and exploited. Skills and appreciation learned while we are children can serve us as adults. As we grow and develop as human beings, we can continue stretching our capabilities through artistic expression, if only as casual hobbyists or spectators. Our bodies will age, and our physical prowess will diminish, but our minds and our imagination need never grow old. Practical knowledge of the arts can keep us forever active mentally and emotionally. We can forever learn, grow, and advance-the hallmarks of youth. Clearly, art education is not a luxury, it is a spiritual necessity. At its apotheosis-aesthetically, philosophically, and psychologically-art provides a spiritual summation by integrating mind and matter. It allows abstract values to be perceived by the senses. And when form and content are exquisitely unified in art, they are capable of communicating universal truths through beautiful physical presentation in the most technically proficient manner. Art offers an experience of complete continuity, a harmoniously integrated experience of mind, body, and soul- for its makers and its worthy beholders. Thus it is the very souls of our emotionally abandoned, value-starved youth that we can rescue through art education-one at a time. For it is art that best inspires the moral imagination."}, {"response": 23, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (13:39)", "body": "That's all of the article, folks...we are now taking questions and comments from the floor!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (14:10)", "body": "That was just brilliant, Wer. I'm going to print it out to read more carefully. It just corresponds so well with all my views of art and creativity. That it should be for every man, woman and child - not so that they may become artists and be admired by the world, but so that they can take their feelings and inner world, that inner space that no-one else ever really get to know, somewhere. So that they may express, so that they may FEEL the freedom that belongs to that space, so that they may grow old in body, but never ever in spirit."}, {"response": 25, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (13:55)", "body": "Ditto the printing & rereading, also I'm going to pass it on to some friends."}, {"response": 26, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (13:59)", "body": "Ack! It won't let me print it out. (*sigh*)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (19:16)", "body": "autumn, didja try copying it and moving to a word document then printing it out?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:01)", "body": "Wolf, how come you know so much about this computer stuff??"}, {"response": 29, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:26)", "body": "cuz she da Man!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:43)", "body": "ha-ha!!!! Good to know there are some technically talented women in this world too."}, {"response": 31, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:45)", "body": "isn't it just?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:47)", "body": "You swift THANG!!!!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:48)", "body": "had THAT complaint before..."}, {"response": 34, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:52)", "body": "ha-ha!!! And....oh dear! Is your wife THAT good in bed??? Afraid I've got to go now, the girls are up, and pestering me like anything. See you later, tasty muffin!!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:53)", "body": "ciao!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:49)", "body": "Um, how do I copy it and move it?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:53)", "body": "you highlight the part you want to copy. then go up to your toolbar, click edit, then click copy. next, open the file you want to copy the stuff to. once you do that, click edit from your toolbar and click paste and viola! there you go..."}, {"response": 38, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (23:31)", "body": "Good God, it actually worked! Thanks, Wolf!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (01:43)", "body": "Wolfie, how did you get to be so clever with computers???"}, {"response": 40, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (11:16)", "body": "practice practice practice (and lots of questions)"}, {"response": 41, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (01:16)", "body": "Oh, THAT!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (13:00)", "body": "Yet another incredible piece I had missed. WER, snippets of that article before. Thanks for putting it all in one easily accessible place for me! I've shown and been shown sections around the school district. Wish EVERYONE could read it! I've printed it out and will stash it in every teacher's mailbox early tomorrow morning! And I shall send it to CDE tomorow as well. Now if I could just make the legislature read it... perhaps we would be given art teachers and time to permit art curriculum in the schools again..."}, {"response": 43, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (01:07)", "body": "Yes, it really is brilliant."}, {"response": 44, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jan  6, 2000 (19:37)", "body": "Ree, Dear, please post something so we know you are alright. We miss you something terrible and Terry is getting all out of shape (as it were) in missing you. Alexander, as well. We cannot have both you and other important people missing so I am going to post messages in all the places I think you might see them in hopes that you will just say Hi! *Hugs*"}, {"response": 45, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jan  6, 2000 (19:45)", "body": "BTW, excellent stuff in this Topic. It should be necessary reading for all sorts of people from parents to ... well, any adult, actually. Thanks for putting it here and I am sorry I did not find it sooner."}, {"response": 46, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Jan  6, 2000 (20:31)", "body": "i'm so sorry...all wrapped up in my own world, ree-head, come back, I MISS YOU! you, me, and marcia are triplets sweetie!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jan  6, 2000 (20:37)", "body": "Got that right, Wolfie. Come back to the fold...it's like one of Wolfie's legs is missing or I only have two...or sumpthin li'dat...=( art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 14, "subject": "ART - our only birthright.", "response_count": 27, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug  8, 1998 (04:56)", "body": "I will try to find examples of the above mentioned paintings, and post them here, together with some comments. I find them quite extraordinary."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (07:11)", "body": "Have you visited some of these sites. What is the most famous, Lescaux or something like that?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (08:30)", "body": "The Lascaux caves in the Dordogne, France, is the more famous of the two - probably because of where it's situated. I believe the Altamira caves are a little more difficult to get to. Sadly I haven't visited either of these sights myself, but the way it looks, I'll be in Europe longer than I thought, so I've not given up hope. Anyway, the painting in the Lascaux caves is of two wounded bison attacking a man - I've got a photo right in front of me. I'll post it to Wer to put in so everyone can see. What strikes me about it is the great naturalism and anatomical accuracy with which the bison is portrayed. The man in it, however is more of a stick man, almost symbolical inits representation. And there's a bird in the painting too - I can't quite work out why or whether it is perhaps a kind of symbol or banner, or what function it fulfills."}, {"response": 4, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (22:42)", "body": "What I find fascinating about the cave art in Lascaux is that they had the foresight way back in the 60s (70s?) to reseal the cave so it wouldn't be further damaged by light, humidity, etc., thereby depriving the world of the great paintings for the good of the art. So noble!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (23:10)", "body": "Noble indeed, and fortunate that the long haul was considered."}, {"response": 6, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (23:17)", "body": "It struck me as so incongruous with the times...makes you wonder what shape they'd be in today if allowed to be exploited (or, God forbid, if they were located in another country that wasn't so forward-thinking)?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (01:16)", "body": "Absolutely. And thank you for raising that point, Autumn. That is exactly what I want. Not only to talk about how wonderful the art is, but how to preserve it, and keep it safe for nations to come. Another thing which is truly fascinating about these paintings is HOW they were done, and how creative their artists were even in that. Aparrently they painted the lines by blowing the paint through a hollow reed onto the wall of the cave. To make coloured paint they used ochre, which could be crushed to powder consisting of red, brown and yellow pigments, while black (so historians assume) will have been made from charcoal powder. These powdered pigments were rubbed onto the wall with the hands to pro uce tones not unlike the pastels we have today. Mixed with animal fat or other forms of binding fluids, and applied with reed or bristle brushes, they achieved the brighter colours. The means were simple, the effect overwhelming. And while we are ignorant of the meaning of the painting (the symolized elements in it suggest that there must be a deeper meaning, perhaps ritualistic), this prehistoric art is representative of all art to come."}, {"response": 8, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (12:08)", "body": "and other ancient art such as marking the body, painful as it is, many fading tribes still mark their bodies ritualistically in the same manner as their ancestors before them. can't give any examples cuz i saw it on discovery awhile back. i found it fascinating."}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (12:59)", "body": "I didn't know that - sounds very interesting. I'll try and find out about it."}, {"response": 10, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (15:54)", "body": "I'm always amazed at the elaborate tattooing the New Zealand Maori tribe performs."}, {"response": 11, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (00:18)", "body": "did you also know that the final tattoo performed can at times result in death? It is the one done around the belly button."}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (00:59)", "body": "Not a thing I ever wish to experience - I don't like being in pain for no reason at all. In Namibia there is also some prehistoric rock engravings to be found. Twyfelfontein is a particularly magnificent site of rock engravings (more accurately called, petroglyphs). Many experts now believe that the rock artists of southern Africa were producing paintings at the same time as, if not earlier tahn, the rock artists of Altamira and Lascaux."}, {"response": 13, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (14:53)", "body": "Wounded bison attacking man Lascaux caves 15,000-10,000BC"}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (15:48)", "body": "\ufffdBEAMING!!\ufffd Thank you, Wer!! Being your mistress is my Joy .... What immediately strikes one about this cave painting is that the bison is indeed very accurately painted (especially if you consider the primitive means), whereas the man and the bird seem of almost no importance at all. Experts think that the bison might have been a sacred animal to these ancient cave painters. But the bird bothers me. Why the long line where the claws should be?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (15:53)", "body": "water bird like a stork or flamingo, maybe..."}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (16:09)", "body": "I don't know, Wer - if they could portray the bison so accurately, why do a stork or flamingo so totally INaccurately? They were obviously very observant - surely they'd be capable of painting a long neck and beak? I'm wondering if the bird acts as a symbol of some sort. To me it looks like it's sitting on a stick. But why? Hey, a thought just came to me, and you're going to laugh at it - for it stands in no book. I'm thinking that perhaps the painter was trying to teach his fellow tribesmen a lesson: Perhaps the hunter first managed to kill a bird - hence the stick. Then he sees the mighty bison quivering with power and magnificence. The painter painted the bird small and insignificant, while the bison seems almost alive with strength and greatness. This illustrates what the hunter felt: he wanted to take home the great bison, not the silly bird. So he sets out to kill the bison, and win the admiration of the other men - and especially the women, of course. And this is where the painter teaches s a lesson. The hunter is attacked, and killed by the beautiful animal he wanted to kill, but didn't respect. He is flung into the air by its magnificent horns, and falls to the ground where perhaps he is trampled to death; he dies for his vanity and greed. This is only my feeling right now as I look at it - a very personal interpretation of something several thousand years beyond my reach, so feel free to disagree."}, {"response": 17, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (21:58)", "body": "For some reason, I could look at that picture all day."}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (01:08)", "body": "I know what you mean. I really makes you think."}, {"response": 19, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:34)", "body": "yes, sometimes you do..."}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:04)", "body": "What's that supposed to mean, muffin!? I don't think often? I suppose not."}, {"response": 21, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:12)", "body": "nope, you said, \"I really makes you think.\" so I said, \"yes, sometimes you do...\""}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:42)", "body": "ha-ha!!! Didn't even realize I made that mistake! You're in one hilarious mood today - not good for a person suffering from incessant giggling fits!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (04:28)", "body": "Time for our second bison, I think. Bison from Altamira Cave c. 15,000-12,000 BC The paintings on the walls of these caves were the first to be discovered in modern times - 1879. The discovery had such fundamental implications for archaeology that it was at first dismissed as a forgery. The bison is painted on the ceiling of a narrow corridor leading from a subterranean cave in Altamira. In fact, a whole herd of animals surges majestically across the roof of the cave, one animal overlapping another; bison, horses, boars, mammoths, and other creatures, all the desired quarry of the Stone Age hunters."}, {"response": 24, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (21:55)", "body": "this is really good!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (01:10)", "body": "Yes, I love the reddish colour in which this one is painted. I'm trying to find photos of the rest of the herd, but haven't been successful yet. I'm dying to see what the whole thing looks like. Have any of you been?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:12)", "body": "I'd love to see a woolly mammoth!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (01:28)", "body": "Me too! And to think that the artist will have seen one for real! art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 15, "subject": "Art of the Ancient World", "response_count": 40, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (07:12)", "body": "Perhaps we could find some examples in some of the museum and art web sites on the net to discuss."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (08:34)", "body": "I've found some really good examples already, Terry - some really good ones worth discussing. I'll get them in here, okay? I'm really enjoying this journey of art research I have embarked upon, and have seen and read some pretty exciting things. I'll share them once I've got the images in here so that people won't wonder what we're talking about or get bored."}, {"response": 3, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (11:46)", "body": "i have always liked Egyptian art (the ancient ones). i'm no way an expert or even a novice in the art department (history) but i would love to see some of those things posted here. educate me!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (12:38)", "body": "I will. Don't worry about whether you're an expert or not. I think every point of view is important in art, because often people are so educated, they stop looking with unprejudiced eye. And everyone sees different things in different paintings - only by sharing different points of view will we come to truly understand and appreciate art."}, {"response": 5, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (22:44)", "body": "I haven't seen examples of Mycenean art since college! (\"Art in the Dark\", remember?)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (23:11)", "body": "Neat stuff, Riette, you're on such a roll, girl!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (01:21)", "body": "Told you I was turning into a tomato! Oh dear, I was just wanting to discuss the painting technique of the Egyptians to keep us busy until the first picture comes in, but I'm being . . . ouch! . . . trampled by two very awake little girls, so, I'll be back a bit later."}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (04:49)", "body": "Okay, I'm back, though only for twenty minutes - have an important lunch date today. Okay, the painting techniques of the Egyptians: So far I've been able to find out about two tecniques: the fresco secco technique used in wall paintings where tempera is applied to plaster that has been allowed to dry first. (Tempera is a term applied to any paint in which the pigment is dissolved in water and mixed with an organic gum or glue, such as egg for example.) And then there was the buon fresco technique in which the painting is done on wet plaster. But that's all I know. Does anyone know of other methods used? Or more details perhaps?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (21:46)", "body": "Lamenting Women (wall painting from the tomb of Ramose) c. 1370 BC"}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (01:02)", "body": "Thank you, Wer. Okay, so this is our first example of Egyptian painting (fresco secco technique). I chose this one, because it contains all the classic elements Egyptian art: The women in the painting are flat and scematic (though their anguished gestures clearly express grief). The subject is shown from the angle that would make it most clearly identifiable, and sized according to their place in social hierarchy. The head is always shown in profile, yet the eyes are always drawn from the front. Unfortunately one can't see it in this photo, but the feet are always painted from the inside view. There is also no perspective in these paintings - everything appears two-dimensi nally."}, {"response": 11, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (22:01)", "body": "I love those 5 in the middle that are practically cheek-to-cheek. Wonder wehat that's all about?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (01:13)", "body": "It is a tomb painting, from the tomb of Ramose, and this, I presume, is his funeral procession. Ramose was a minister under two pharaohs of the 18th dynasty, Amenhotep III and Amenhotep IV. I almost wonder if these women could be his wives and children . . . but that would make the five in the middle quintoplets (or whatever that's called)!!! No wonder he died."}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (01:26)", "body": "Here is another wonderful tomb painting: Fowling Scene Tomb of Nebamun Thebes, Egypt c. 1400 BC 81cm high Originally this painting was only one part of a larger work, which included a fishing scene also. Everything is shown in great detail, yet somehow it is an idealized scene - which I find enchanting. The nobleman stands in his boat, holding the birds he has just caught. He is accompanied by his beautiful wife wearing a smart costume, and a fancy sort of headdress, and holding a bouquet; her and the small figure of his daughter squatting between his legs. Look at how she picks the lotus flower from the water. It is also a good example of how it was conventional for figures to be shown large or smal according to their status."}, {"response": 14, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:06)", "body": "i love the detail of the wildlife in this painting. it must have proved helpful when identifying the animals that existed in Eygpt at that time. And family must have been an important part of their life as they are all on the excursion together."}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:06)", "body": "Clever conclusion - I think you're right."}, {"response": 16, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (21:03)", "body": "I like this one too--the use of birds & fish is a nice change, and portraying the family was a nice touch."}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (01:10)", "body": "You bet! The next example is this stunning painted sculpture: Head of Nefertiti c. 1360 BC Nefertiti was the wife of the Pharaoh Akhenaten, and this sculpture is as poignant as a Botticelli head - the same touching exquisite wistfulness in the expression. It also demonstrates a loosening of the rigid conventions that governed most Egyptian art, because Akhenaten broke with the traditional style when he became a pharaoh. During his reign, the paintings, carvings, and sculptures that were produced reflected this in that they were refreshingly graceful and original."}, {"response": 18, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:36)", "body": "i love this, it looks so real (and wasn't she beautiful?)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:47)", "body": "Isn't it incredible to think that it has survived, intact, for 3300 years?? Flawless. Has it ever been restored, Riette?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (00:52)", "body": "No; it is thought to have been a workshop model, because it was found in the ruins of a sculptor's studio. Pretty incredible, hey?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (04:45)", "body": "And what is an Egyptian topic without the Great Sphinx? So, here goes: Great Sphinx Probably from the Old Kingdom c. 2620 BC Pink Granite Height: 1,83m Width: 4,80m This great sculpture stands in the Louvre Museum, Paris, which I also visited last year. Unfortunately the department of Egyptian Antiquities was closed for renovation, so I could not see it - which was very dissappointing. But the Louvre now boasts an Egyptian Dept. which displays remains of civilizations along the banks of the Nile, dating from the time of Nagada (about 4000 years before our time), up to the Christian era, around the 11th century. The collection consists of 5000 works displayed in an area of 4,120 square meters. You cannot imagine how utterly VAST this museum is until you're there. I spent over 18 hours there last year (even without the Egyptian collection!!), and was in a great deal of pain that evening - my feet literally had blisters, even though I wandered through the museum bare footed."}, {"response": 22, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:14)", "body": "I don't even remember an Egyptian section at the Louvre...is it new?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (01:30)", "body": "I think there used to be a tiny section which no-one ever bothered to visit, and so they really made an effort with it, and came up with this the end of last year. We'll have to go back now, you realize."}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (01:38)", "body": "'Funeral Portrait' Antinoopolis End of the Reign of Traja 98-117AD Wax portrait on wood I find this one just stunning, and very un-Egyptian. Just look at the expression in those large eyes, the rich colours used, the very texture of the girl's skin. Very beautiful."}, {"response": 25, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (18:25)", "body": "This one's incredible--she looks more INdian than Egyptian to me. And in wax, no less."}, {"response": 26, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (21:40)", "body": "i agree autumn. look how low her hairline is. but her eyes just steal the show!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:05)", "body": "Yep, the girl must have been a mega-babe back then!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (09:03)", "body": "Karomama c. 1300BC"}, {"response": 29, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (14:08)", "body": "Do you think she once held something? Her arms are in an odd position."}, {"response": 30, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (19:18)", "body": "i know! was wondering the same thing!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:02)", "body": "My guess is it's Terry's tool!!!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:50)", "body": "LOL!!!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (23:07)", "body": "Terry's tool is an antique? I wonder when he had it appraised last..."}, {"response": 34, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (01:18)", "body": "ha-ha! Terry's Tool is eTernal. And I was referring more to size than anything else!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (06:11)", "body": "Fragment of a bust of Amenophis IV - Akhenaton c.1365-1360BC Sandstone with residues of paint."}, {"response": 36, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:39)", "body": "I bet this thing in HUGE, it's so imposing!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (01:08)", "body": "Yes, the Egyptians really did go for 'Size does matter!'."}, {"response": 38, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (13:12)", "body": "Seated Scribe 2600-2400 BC Painted Limestone Height: 53.7cm Width: 44cm"}, {"response": 39, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:26)", "body": "I remember this one from college (more slides!) Very prestigious position."}, {"response": 40, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (00:59)", "body": "Sorry about that - no idea what they show people in college! art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 16, "subject": "Medieval Art", "response_count": 28, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (07:14)", "body": "You know, we also have a medieval conference so do you want me to link this to a parallel topic there, Riette. Some folks came to me and asked for medieval, but there has been scant activity there. We need to lure of few of these medievalists to our discussions."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (08:37)", "body": "Yes, please do that, Terry! I'd be very grateful. I'm sure there are people out there who can teach me a few things, and help me understand the history of painting better."}, {"response": 3, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (11:48)", "body": "i don't know if i've seen medieval artwork (paintings) but love looking at needlework from the era (reproductions, of course)."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (12:40)", "body": "Yes, me too. I'll post some examples here to try and make it a bit more interesting. Even I find art discussions totally boring without visuals - which is what art is about, right? And thank you for your interest, Wolf. I appreciate it."}, {"response": 5, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (22:46)", "body": "Bring on the visuals."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (23:11)", "body": "Link complete (to medieval)."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (23:13)", "body": "Item Resps Subject 1 34 introductions 2 7 IVANHOE! 3 2 THE CRUSADES 4 11 LE MORTE D'ARTHUR 5 7 \"Guievere \"by Laurel Phelan 6 30 TELL YOUR FRIENDS! 7 35 your profession in the middle ages 8 3 Victorian interpretation 9 0 Dante 10 6 Medieval Art (showing the link in the medieval conference)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (04:50)", "body": "Thank you, Terry."}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (00:29)", "body": "Virgin and Child enthroned between St Theodore and St George 68x48cm 6th Century"}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (01:25)", "body": "I chose this little icon, not only because it is full of motives for interpretation, but also because it is a good example of art in the First Golden Age of Byzantine Art. During the First Golden Age the figures of the Virgin and Child had appeared as symbols of the Christian faith, rather than two people in an intimate, human relationship. During the second Golden Age the Virgin and Child were often painted with their faces touching tenderly, which introduced a new note in sacred art - there is emotional closeness there. So a good way to tell wether an icon was doen in the First or Second golden age, is to look at the relationship between the Mother and Child. But as I mentioned already, the icon above is also quite 'interpretable'. Mary has big, wide eyes - suggesting her purity of heart, as well as that she is a woman of vision, she sees God. She does not seem to notice Jesus on her lap: she knows his powers, He can 'look after Himself'. The two saints beside her are George, the holy warrior and dragon killer, and Theodore, a less well known warrior saint. Notice how they each hold a cross, instead of their weapons. Then there are the angels behind the throne. They look up, reminding us that the Child belongs to God, and not to Mary. Furthermore the four halos of Mary, Jesus and the saints form a cross, which predicts the future of the Child."}, {"response": 11, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (22:05)", "body": "I always enjoy gazing at the beautiful gold-leafed christian icons in museums, though I often get that feeling \"if you've seen one, you've seen them all.\" I will have to pay closer attention to the Mary-Jesus relationship from now on."}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (01:35)", "body": "ha-ha! But I know what you mean. I can also look at icons one at a time - otherwise the meaning just gets totally lost."}, {"response": 13, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:08)", "body": "yes, it does get rather generic when you see one after the other but it displays how much those symbols meant to them. and most Mary/Jesus paintings show them as sort of aloof but connected. i imagine that Mary was just like any other mother would be with her first child (not to mention the fact that this is God's child)!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:31)", "body": "Vladimir Madonna 75x53cm 12th century"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:10)", "body": "Thank you, Wer! See the warmth and closeness between Mother and Child? Look how He snuggles up to her. That means, Second Golden Age. Vladimir Madonna was probably painted in Constantinople in the 12th century, and later taken to Russia."}, {"response": 16, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (14:04)", "body": "this is one of the first Madonna paintings that i've seen with the closeness of the two shown so. most others are with the baby Jesus just in her lap. love the cheek to cheek depiction. OK, maybe you explained this before, riette, but what does the golden ages mean?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (01:14)", "body": "It basically mean the age in which Christians got 'permission' to be Christian. And it started in 313 when Constantine recognized the Christian church as the official religion of the Roman Empire, thereby ending 300 years of Christian persecution. That's why virtually all the paintings/sculptures that survived from this period are religious in some way or other."}, {"response": 18, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (21:06)", "body": "It doesn't seem as well-preserved as most others; I wonder where it's been the last 700 years?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (05:18)", "body": "God only knows. Here is something beautiful for our topic: 'Annunciation' 1291 Mosaic Santa Maria in Trastevere, Rome What do you think? This sort of religious art I can not only endure, but feel true admiration for."}, {"response": 20, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:15)", "body": "Mosaics always turn me on; something about the texture, maybe. This one's gorgeous."}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (07:01)", "body": "I could find no information regarding this icon, but my guess is that it dates back to the first golden age of Byzantine art - that is, before the 8th century."}, {"response": 22, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (13:06)", "body": "look how tight baby Jesus is wrapped. similar to how tightly babies are wrapped today. almost a foreshadow of his death and being wrapped then..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (01:11)", "body": "Yes. I'm glad I wasn't Mary. Look at how he's already telling her what to do! I'd give the little (oops, was going to say bugger) a smacking in no time! Which reminds me of an amusing story my husband told me. Several years ago he was asked to accompany some church choir doing the nativity play. At one point the woman who conducted it all told the little girl who played Mary to pretend that she really is the dolly's Mummy - just like her own Mummy who had an 8 month-old baby. And the little girl said to Joseph: \"YOU take the bugger, I've had him all day!!\""}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (08:08)", "body": "Ha!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (08:57)", "body": "haha! kids say the cutest things!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (10:50)", "body": "The parents too, obviously..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (13:51)", "body": "this is true! kids always repeat things they've heard. my daughter runs around talking like her sitter! (see, the lady has practically adopted us and does have grown children of her own AND her own grandbabies, so what's a few more?) I adore her!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (14:04)", "body": "How sweet. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 17, "subject": "Gothic Art", "response_count": 39, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (07:14)", "body": "Can you give some examples of Gothic artists?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (08:47)", "body": "Here goes - I'll also give examples of their best known works. Either you'll know them or of them, can look them up, or shall I post them so that everyone can see? Cimabue Maesta (painting of the Madonna around 1280-1285) Duccio (Holy Women at the sepulchre around 1308-1311) Giotto (very famous painter who did the Deposition of Christ around 1304-1313) Wilton Diptych (little is known about his work, but he was very good, and did a famous panel showing the Virgin Mary surrounded with angels c. 1395) Robert Campin (Portrait of a woman around 1420-1430) Jan van Eyck (The Arnolfini Marriage around 1434) Rogier van der Weyden (Deposition around 1435. Wonderful painter.) Hieronymus Bosch (Temptation of ST. Anthony around 1505. Famous for bizarre and fantastic images in many of his paintings.) Matthias Gr\ufffdnewald (Crucifixion around 1510-1515)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (11:49)", "body": "help me, here...i always thought gothic and medieval were rather synonymous..can you clear this up for me?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (12:55)", "body": "Sure, Wolf. Medieval art is also called Byzantine Art. This is an artform which in turn can be devided into two different periods. The first golden age of Byzantine Art started around 313, after 300 years of Christian persecution, when the Emperor Constantine recognized the Christian church as the official religion of the Roman Empire. Artists turned away from the Greco-Roman style of early Christian Art, to develop this entirely new style. You were right in thinking that gothic and medieval are synonymous, becau e Byzantine art had a profound influence on Gothic art. And this Byzantine/Medieval period ran right through the Middle Ages to the time of the Renaissance. There came a second golden age in the 8th and 9th centuries. Gothic Art started emerging by the 13th century, and denotes a period of time rather than describing a set of identifiable features. Though there are some recognizable characteristics of Gothic style (especially in architecture, of course), we must bear in mind that the period haad a time span of over 200 years. But to make it easier, we can use the term 'Gothic' for art that was produced after the Romanesque (Medieval) period, and before the Renaissance."}, {"response": 5, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (14:28)", "body": "so an example of gothic architecture would be the gargoyles used to protect structures from evil spirits?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (04:57)", "body": "Yes, absolutely. And these things actually served a practical purpose as well originally. Though they were very imaginatively done in the form of grotesque figures, they allowed the water from roof gutters to flow away without ruining the walls. With the introduction of lead drainpipes in the 16th century gargoyles were no longer really needed, and from then on similar sculptures, but not serving the function of gargyles were used to decorate walls."}, {"response": 7, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (15:56)", "body": "I associate the Gothic period with novels and architecture. It will be interesting to see some examples of art."}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (01:03)", "body": "There are indeed some fine examples to be seen - soon."}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:21)", "body": "Maest\ufffd by Cimabue 1280-85 386x225cm"}, {"response": 10, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:21)", "body": "personally, I like the inclusion of the two art critics at bottom center of this one..."}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:51)", "body": "Stop!!! I can't take it any more - my tummy's beginning to hurt, and my husband thinks I'm doing naughty things to myself in front of the computer!! The most prominent artist working in Florence at the end of the 13th century was Cimabue (c.1240-c.1302), who is traditionally held to be Giotto's teacher. 'Maest\ufffd' ('Majesty') is his best known work. The term 'Maest\ufffd', was used to refer to a painting of the Madonna and Child in which the figure of Mary sits on a throne and is surrounded by angels (and sometimes art critics at the botom!!). Dimabue's painting has such sweetness and dignity, there is emotional content in it, not just rigid, stylized fig res of the traditional Byzantine icon. It marks the beginning of something new and exciting."}, {"response": 12, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (21:11)", "body": "Is all Gothic art religious?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (05:35)", "body": "Just about - until the 15th century when gothic art started going in two directions. One was to the South (in Florence), and was the birth of the Italian Renaissance. The other took place in the North (Low Countries) where painting went through an independent, but equally radical transformation - the Northern Renaissance movement. But even during this period most of it was religious. I'll try and find an example of something without the religious element, and post it."}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (05:59)", "body": "Okay, I've found some images, but I'd first like to post something inbetween, by an artist called, Hieronymus Bosch. This guy's work is absolutely stunning, and almost un-Gothic. Hieronymus Bosch 'The Seven Deadly Sins' 1485 I think this is an absolutely fantastic painting. Makes you want to go out and commit all of them! Shall we have a guess at the sins of each section?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (06:01)", "body": "Let's start with the one at the bottom, in the middle, and work our way around in a clockwise direction. So, this first one must be about slutting around!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:39)", "body": "i dunno about that one but one at the top (the dude at the table) is gluttony."}, {"response": 17, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:50)", "body": "I'm having a lot of trouble with this game. Maybe it would help if I knew what the 7 deadly sins were!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:56)", "body": "pride, envy, gluttony, lust, anger, covetousness, and sloth"}, {"response": 19, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (18:45)", "body": "Thank you! That might be anger at 10:00 (I'm having trouble w/the others, though)."}, {"response": 20, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (21:06)", "body": "actually, the place i went to make sure i had the sins down right had a copy of that painting!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (00:56)", "body": "So post us the answer, Wolf! 'Cos I can't tell either! I get distracted by the detail, and find myself losing concentration where the issue at hand is concerned."}, {"response": 22, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (22:03)", "body": "i have to go back and look but the one at 12 o'clock was gluttony for sure!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (01:11)", "body": "Hilarious that one, isn't it? You could just post the url, and people can look it up for themselves."}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (07:13)", "body": "Giovanni del Biondo Altarpiece of the Baptist 14th century Tempera on Panel I find this a stunning work of art, though the central figure (can't figure out whether it's Christ or John the Baptist) is to me absolutely terrifying."}, {"response": 25, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:43)", "body": "I wouldn't say terrifying, but definitely not amused."}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (01:12)", "body": "Did you look at his feet? They are like the claws of a raven or something as he stands there on that poor chap. And the way they're sticking out from under the smart drapery he's wearing - sort of reveals a hidden savageness, that none of us will ever admit to out loud."}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (07:01)", "body": "And here's a nice, grissly example of the delight people used to take in people's beheadings in those days... Altichiero (c. 1330-c.1395) 'The Beheading of St. George' 1385 Not much is known about the artist. He was Italian, probably came from Zevio near Vernoa, was active between 1372 and 1384, and is sometimes considered to be the founder of the Veronese School."}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (13:22)", "body": "Melchior Broederlam 'Presentation in the Temple' 1893-99 Thought very stern, I just love the colours of this one. Very rich, very deep."}, {"response": 29, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:30)", "body": "Poor St. George! And after all he did for them, running off that dragon! Is that supposed to be Elizabeth with John the Baptist? She's downright frumpy."}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:01)", "body": "Yes. She reminds me a bit of the Duchess of York!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (23:16)", "body": "LOL! Except she was no saint!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (01:41)", "body": "Quite!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 18, 1998 (07:42)", "body": "Giotto 'Deposition of Christ' 1304-1313 230cm x 200cm Giotto was probably the first recognised genius of Gothic art. This painting is part of a cycle of frescoes in the Arena Chapel in Padua, showing scenes from the life of the Virgin and from the Passion. Though Giotto was a Gothic painter, I find this one almost 'ready' for the Renaissance; what he presents us with is such an intense and moving drama, that it reminds me a bit of some Wagner Opera. I find His Mother very moving - a stately figure, holding the body close to her, controlled and tragic. Mary Magdalene is holding His feet humbly, looking at the marks of the nails. St John makes a wildly despairing gesture of grief. The angels swoop through the air, their faces filled with horror and sorro . Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea stand to the side, quiet and mournful, and Mary's companions wail and and cry the tears that she does not. Perhaps the strange control in her pose springs from a prophetic inner certainty that Christ would rise again."}, {"response": 34, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Sep 18, 1998 (16:54)", "body": "There's something very fanciful about it."}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 21, 1998 (21:44)", "body": "How do you mean?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (20:54)", "body": "It's just so melodramatic with all those distraught angels, and people standing around with their arms spread but their mouths closed. Pretty stoic bunch of mourners if you ask me. Of course I wasn't present at the Passion to really know what it was like, but somehow I suspect it was nothing like this."}, {"response": 37, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 24, 1998 (01:21)", "body": "But Gothic Art wasn't about presenting things as they really happened - it was about presenting them as they would have happened, had they happened in a proper manner!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Sep 25, 1998 (13:00)", "body": "Ahh...then in that case, it was a very proper Passion."}, {"response": 39, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (00:39)", "body": "ha-ha! art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 18, "subject": "The Italian Renaissance", "response_count": 85, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (07:15)", "body": "Which Renaissance artists come to mind, Riette?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (08:55)", "body": "Sure. And this was the age of some of the REALLY famous painters. Again, with examples which I shall in time post for us to discuss: Masaccio (Adam and Eve 1427) Fra Angelico (Beheading of St. Cosmas and St. Damian 1438-1440) Piero Della Francesca (Resurrection of Christ 1450) Sandro Botticelli (Primavera 1482) Leonardo da Vinci (Virgin of the rocks 1508) Michelangelo (Ignudo from the Sistine Chapel 1503-1512) Raphael (Bindo Altoviti 1515) Titian (Venus and Adonis 1560) Correggio (Venus, Satyr and Cupid 1514-1530) Tintoretto (Conversion of St. Paul 1545) El Greco (Madonna and child with St. Martina and St. Agnes 1597-1599)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Renata", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (16:57)", "body": "Gruezi, Riette and everybody! I like Cellini's \"Perseo\": (well, hope it works - wasn't very good in posting pics recently)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (21:22)", "body": "Is that Perseo's sword, or is he just glad to see me? :-)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (01:09)", "body": "ha-ha!!! Stunning sculpture, Renate! But I do find most of his sculptures a little 'dry' and lacking the feeling - it must be because he was also a goldsmith; it must have been very difficult to transfer such minute, precise work to a very large scale. But the craftsmanship is still magnificent."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Renata", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (02:27)", "body": "Don't remember any of his other work, but I guess I know what you mean. Though, as Autumn points out, you cannot say this one lacks display of feeling :-). I refer to his triumphant posture, in case you wonder."}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (05:44)", "body": "You are right: the posture is pretty triumphant. For me it just lacks that certain ... oh, I don't know how to call it. Like the sort of statue that belongs on the roof of a Swiss bank - triumphant enough, but not the sort of thing that'll make me look twice if I saw it in a museum. To me a truly good sculpture is one in which the posture, the expression on the face, the hands, each have their own tale to tell. I don't want to be able to tell straight away: okay, this guy is holding a cup, which he i going to drink from. So what. I want to see him WANT the wine, I want his tongue to play across his lips in anticipation of the drinking of the wine, I want to be able to imagine his hand tighten around the cup as he brings it to his mouth, I want to s ee his eyes close as he is about to take the first sip. Do you know what I mean? That sort of human feeling complimenting the brilliant craftsmanship."}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (05:53)", "body": ""}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (06:02)", "body": "Damn! Let's try again. . ."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (06:03)", "body": "OH, bugger."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (09:30)", "body": "You just add the quotes and you'll have it. After img sorce put quotes before the http and before the closing angle bracket. You're a hair bredth away from getting it. Go, Riette!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Renata", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (16:43)", "body": "I would like to see the pic, Riette, now I am really curious. Post the address, if not the link. But, I think I know what you mean. You seem to prefer the expressive variety of art. :-)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (01:32)", "body": "Yes, that's it, I think. But that doesn't make the more 'precise' works of art any less good - I have great respect for all of the great artists of our past. I could certainly never even dream of posessing the talent and precision and skill those men possessed."}, {"response": 14, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (23:58)", "body": "The Virgin and Child by Masaccio 1426 135x75cm"}, {"response": 15, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (00:01)", "body": "(I thinks I finally got up alls that you sent me, Mistress...)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (01:34)", "body": "Thank you so much, my sweet slave. Okay so this is one of Masaccio's early works, painted for a church in Pisa. I chose this one, because it is in some ways such an omen of art to come. Madonna is a block of dignity, sitting there on her throne, (worrying about Josef's recent hairloss?) while the Child is completely stripped of Byzantine kingliness. He is a real baby. He is ugly and fat, He sucks his fingers, and stares into space. And then there is the way He is touched by the Madonna. Look at the tiny little hand lying in her's - i is really moving. There is beautifully combined strength and vulnerability in this painting. It was a first move towards real expression and feeling in art."}, {"response": 17, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (21:13)", "body": "I like the way Jesus has lost that miniature adult look. That always seemed so creepy."}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (06:03)", "body": "I know - I hate that about early Christian Art; some of those pictures seem almost evil to me."}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (06:22)", "body": "Okay, here's our next picture: Sandro Botticelli 'Primavera' 1482 315cm x 205cm Unfortunately the photo does not do the real painting any justice - probably because it's such a large painting. The real colours are just stunning - lots of reds and light blues. Botticelli's paintings really stand out for me, because of their beautiful contours, the precise draftsmanship, and a sophisticated understanding of perpective, anatomy - though these elements never overshadow the sheer poetry of his vision. I can't quite make out what the actual subject of 'Primavera' is - unlike 'Primavera and the birth of Venus', also by him. (I'll try and post it after this one for you to see.) 'Primavera' seems to be an allegory on the harmony of nature and contains many mythical figures: There is Venus (who symbolizes the link between nature and civilization), and Mercury. At the right of the painting, the figure of Zephyr, the west wind of spring, is seen chasing Chloris, who is then transformed into Flora, the goddess of flowers. A blindfolded Cupid shoots his arrows at the Three Graces, who were the handmaidens of Venus. They represent the three phases of love: beauty, desire and fulfillment. Berenson once said of Botticelli: 'He appears almost as if haunted by the idea of communicating the unembodied values of touch and movement.\" Beautiful, isn't it?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:43)", "body": "they all look pregnant....which is lovely in itself."}, {"response": 21, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (18:20)", "body": "I was thinking the same thing, Wolf! I wondered if they were representing fertility, in accordance with the spring theme, or if it was just his style."}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (01:01)", "body": "I think it could well be that they represent fertility - in some of his paintings the women don't look pregnant. I'll post 'Birth of Venus' if I can find it next."}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (01:19)", "body": "As I am sitting here, staring at my own photo of this incredible painting, another thing strikes me about it. Everything about it is life-enhancing - yet it offers no safeguards against suffering or accident: did you notice that Cupid is blindfolded as he flies? It gives the poetry of this painting an underlying wistfulness, that sort of nostalgia we get from time to time for something that we cannot possess, but something with which we feel deeply in tune. And now, look at this: Sandro Botticelli 'Birth of Venus' 1485-86 175cm x 280cm Look at how this longing is even more visible in the face of Venus as she is standing there, naked, fragile, sweet. And Flora holds out a garment to her, as if to say: We cannot look upon love unclothed; we are too weak, too wretched to bear the beauty."}, {"response": 24, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (22:10)", "body": "i see Venus as perfectly comfortable in her skin and the covering of her womanly features is for our benefit. Flora is almost wanting just to cover her up. but look how beautiful she is just the way she is. she has no insecurities. so what's up with the two beings on the left?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (01:16)", "body": "The two beings on the right are Zephyr, the west wind of spring, who has caught Chloris (from the previous picture), and Flora on the right, is what he turns Chloris into - the goddess of flowers."}, {"response": 26, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:20)", "body": "Stunning!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (11:07)", "body": "And in a similar spirit... Giovanni Bellini 'The Feast of the Gods' 1514 170cm x 188cm"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (07:21)", "body": "Another big name from the Italian Renaissance is of course, Michelangelo. So, let's see what he did. Michelangelo 1500's I love Michelangelo's paintings of the creation, and ultimately, the Last Judgement for sheer skill and force, but they show God to be terrible I find. He shows God's majesty only, and not His fatherhood. Apparently he saw the world as irredeemable corrupt, and boy, does he show it or what??"}, {"response": 29, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:51)", "body": "Pretty daunting--he resembles one of the mythological gods."}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (06:44)", "body": "Dieric Bouts (1420-1475) 'Mater Dolorosa' 1460 Oil on Panel The Dutch Born painter, Dieric Bouts (c.1415-75) was appointed city painter in Louvain, Flanders in 1468. Although he is known as a Gothic painter, I think the great emotion in this one shows that he went along with the Renaissance. At first this painting seemed dreadfully kitschy to me, and then I thought: I am judging this picture by modern standards. So I looked again, and it became more remarkable for all the emotion depicted here. After the sternness of the Medieval and Gothic periods, this must have been an almost shocking display of human qualities. What finally convinced me, was Mater Dolorosa's hands. These are working hands. They are dirty, because they are there to work and give and sacrifice, not to receive and be admired. Despite being a religious woman, she does not sit above the people around her. She sees their suffering, she feels it too."}, {"response": 31, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:44)", "body": "Good point, Riette."}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (01:15)", "body": "\ufffdgraciously accepting applause!\ufffd"}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (06:52)", "body": "Albrecht Altdorfer (c.1480-1538) 'View of the Danube Valley near Regensburg' 1520-25"}, {"response": 34, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  1, 1998 (10:22)", "body": "And here is a most stunning example: Fra Angelico (c. 1395-1455) 'Noli Me Tangere' 1440-41 Fresco Convent of San Marco, Florence No wonder that in popular tradition this painter has been seen as, in Ruskin's words, 'not an artist properly so-called, but an inspired saint'. The Frescos that he painted in San Marco are at once the expression of and a guide to the spiritual life and disciplined devotion of his convent community. The frescos were intended as aids to devotion; with their immaculate colouring, their economy in drawing and composition, and their freedom from the accidents of time and place, they attain a sense of blissful serenity. Oh, and if any of you are interested in seeing it some time, the Convent of San Marco is now an Angelico museum."}, {"response": 35, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep  1, 1998 (10:33)", "body": "this is beautiful!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (01:06)", "body": "Isn't it just? Looks so fresh too, like it was done yesterday."}, {"response": 37, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:33)", "body": "Absolutely, it's practically glowing."}, {"response": 38, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (14:36)", "body": "Hendrick Avercamp (1585-1634) 'Winter Landscape' This is the only work I have seen so far by this artist - I think. Apparently he was not only famous for his winter landscapes, but for the fact that he was deaf and dumb - they called him 'de Stomme van Kampen' (the mute of Kampen). Apparently there is an outstanding collection of his work at Windsor Castle."}, {"response": 39, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (14:57)", "body": "i think he capitalized on the senses he did have -- sight! look at the bright sun shining down, it's blinding even here on the painting.."}, {"response": 40, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (01:14)", "body": "I know. I think it's beautiful!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 18, 1998 (08:01)", "body": "Let's go back to Fra Angelico, whose painting I posted two pictures ago. Fra Angelico 'Presentation in the Temple' 1440-41 158cm x 136cm Convent of San Marco, Florence Again, a very simple painting, but so beautifully done, one can't help but like it. And for those of you who live in America, I've found out where you can an go admire some of his other works. 'The Madonna of Humility': National Gallery of Art, Washington 'St James Freeing Hermogenes': Kimbell Art Museum, Fort Worth, Texas 'Virgin and Child': Cincinnati Art Museum"}, {"response": 42, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Sep 18, 1998 (16:57)", "body": "The last time I was in the National Gallery, I got in trouble for pointing too closely at a painting. My girlfriend and I giggled through the whole East Wing. This one seems unnatural and fakey-fake to me. Maybe I'm just jaded these days."}, {"response": 43, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 21, 1998 (21:47)", "body": "Yes, I wonder why they're so stuck-up at galleries. I mean, do they honestly think one is going to DO something to the paintings???"}, {"response": 44, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Sep 21, 1998 (22:24)", "body": "Well, you never know when a president is going to come by..."}, {"response": 45, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 21, 1998 (22:49)", "body": "HA-HA!!!!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep 22, 1998 (21:30)", "body": "that happened to me on an art trip in high school (no, not the president, gross!) but i got a bit too close and the guard had to come over and make sure i wasn't gonna fornicate the oil or something. it was really weird because i read the \"how to behave in an art gallery\" rules and still wanted to touch the stuff."}, {"response": 47, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (01:14)", "body": "You mean you didn't know about the little magnets they put into paintings? Why do you think they attract to much money?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "kristen", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (01:21)", "body": "I saw most of these paintings in person. Nothing can describe them."}, {"response": 49, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (01:55)", "body": "I know what you mean, Kristen. I visit art museums and cathedrals wherever I go in Europe - it really does give one a kick to see famous works for real, rather than in books. This weekend I saw some Giacometti stained glass windows in a church - they were stunning, probably among the most beautiful windows I've ever seen. I also visited Stein am Rhein on Sunday, which is a small village on the river. It's so so beautiful, and all the buildings are COVERED in excellent paintings of village life."}, {"response": 50, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (08:16)", "body": "the city is trying to beautify some of the rundown places by painting various scenes on them. the thing i can't figure out is if they're doing it so it feels safe...."}, {"response": 51, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (13:36)", "body": "Sounds a little dubious.... In Stein am Rhein at least you know it's for real, since there live a mere thousand people there! Maybe they did it to make the place seem more dangerous!!!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (20:56)", "body": "Depends on what it's a picture of!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 24, 1998 (01:22)", "body": "Bread bakers, pig farmers - you know, the usual dangers."}, {"response": 54, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep 24, 1998 (09:24)", "body": "only when you mess with their daughters..."}, {"response": 55, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Sep 24, 1998 (10:07)", "body": "pictures of butterflies and various bayou decidious wildlife...."}, {"response": 56, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 24, 1998 (10:32)", "body": "like wolves?"}, {"response": 57, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Sep 24, 1998 (20:41)", "body": "i think i'm the only wolf here, actually!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 25, 1998 (01:15)", "body": ""}, {"response": 59, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep 25, 1998 (13:09)", "body": "eh? what was that, riette?? *grin*"}, {"response": 60, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (00:40)", "body": "mind strike! For a moment I thought your species had become totally extinct here at the spring. Luckily I was wrong."}, {"response": 61, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (17:52)", "body": "Piero della Francesca 'The Baptism' 1442 I find the works by this artist incredibly serene and beautiful."}, {"response": 62, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (18:03)", "body": "Oops, that one didn't work - let's try another, and I'll try the previous one again later. Montefeltro Altarpiece (Milan) Piero della Francesca 1465 The most amazing thing about this painting is not only the brilliant perspective, but the dummy around the Child's neck!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (18:03)", "body": "MAN!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (19:31)", "body": "this picture is hilarious! i'm sorry but i can't help it. why do all the people's heads look like they were superimposed (like in enquire magazine)? and what's the matter with this baby? he can't be comfortable at all in a position like that. and what is that on his chest? a gaping chest wound or a cross hanging from a chain? and then there's the thing dangling from the scallop shell. it looks like a lamp or a big fat egg. now the clothing is very well done. looks like you can actually feel the folds o his tunic. i don't mean to be ugly about the baby Jesus, but this picture is kind of weird looking to me."}, {"response": 65, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (01:22)", "body": "It's exquisitely painted, but yeah! I'm kind of puzzled by the dummy myself! There are much better pictures by this artist. His speciality was dimensions and perspective; he was one of the first artists who used architectual calculations to paint his pictures, and got it perfect. In that sense he is pretty brilliant. But that dummy!"}, {"response": 66, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (17:59)", "body": "I was looking at the architecture, and thinking what a shame it is that they do not build buildings that way anymore."}, {"response": 67, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (18:32)", "body": "indeed! i must say that i enjoyed the architecture and the detailed way it was reproduced."}, {"response": 68, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (18:51)", "body": "I love walking through old courthouses, cathedrals, and other public buildings, to look at the detailing."}, {"response": 69, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (18:53)", "body": "are you one of those too? where you visit a building and wind up walking around with your head at a 90 deg angle looking at the nooks and crannies on the ceiling? haha!!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (18:55)", "body": "And wind up with a stiff neck that takes hours to get over? Yes!"}, {"response": 71, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (18:57)", "body": "my problem is the whiplash affect from snapping that head back to level and up again to make sure i'm not running into anyone! where're you from?"}, {"response": 72, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (19:11)", "body": "Originally from the mid-west, I moved here from Nebraska, a little over two years ago."}, {"response": 73, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (19:12)", "body": "moved here....where is here? i lived in kansas for 8 years. have been to nebraska--namely pioneer village."}, {"response": 74, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (19:13)", "body": "wait, i'm not still in kansas. am in louisiana."}, {"response": 75, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (19:18)", "body": "I live in Austin, Tx, for the present. I am taking a long look at Corpus, however."}, {"response": 76, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (19:19)", "body": "yeah, that would be a long look from way over in austin! *tongue in cheek* whaddaya do?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (19:19)", "body": "What part of Louisiana? Arcadiana, by any chance?"}, {"response": 78, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (19:23)", "body": "no. shreveport/bossier."}, {"response": 79, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (19:26)", "body": "I am a regional truck driver. Used to work long-haul but got tired of it, and you?"}, {"response": 80, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (19:28)", "body": "you're starting to sound a lot like someone i know."}, {"response": 81, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (00:48)", "body": "ha-ha! Yeah, me too! Are you into art, Patrick?"}, {"response": 82, "author": "PT", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (01:25)", "body": "Yes, I am. I enjoy most forms of art."}, {"response": 83, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Feb  9, 2000 (23:27)", "body": "Contributed by John Burnett Hawaii TV news anchor Joe Moore told a terrific story about the painting of Leonardo DaVinci's \"The Last Supper.\" DaVinci used live models as Jesus and the 12 disciples. The first person he painted was Jesus. After several months of searching for a \"face without sin,\" he settled on a 19-year-old youth as the face of the Messiah. Six years later, all the disciples but Judas Iscariot were painted. He also spent a considerable amount of time before settling on a 25-year-old convict to be the face of the disciple who had betrayed Christ. It wasn't until the painting was completed that DaVinci was told that the person who had posed as Judas was the same person who had also posed as Jesus."}, {"response": 84, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Feb 10, 2000 (12:15)", "body": "incredible!"}, {"response": 85, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 10, 2000 (12:28)", "body": "It is a real chicken-skin story. Who says corruption does not tell on the face of the perpetrator?! Not all of us have a Dorian Gray portrait in the attic. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 19, "subject": "Baroque and Rococo", "response_count": 53, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (07:18)", "body": "From Encarta: Rococo Style, style of 18th-century painting and decoration characterized by lightness, delicacy, and elaborate ornamentation. The rococo period corresponded roughly to the reign of King Louis XV of France (1715-1774). The style began with the interior architectural work of French designer Pierre Lepautre and with the paintings of French artist Jean-Antoine Watteau. Rococo is characterized by architectural decoration based on arabesques, shells, elaborate curves, and asymmetry; iridescent pastel colors; and, in painting, light-hearted subject matter. Rococo artisans included French painters Fran\ufffdois Boucher and Jean Honor\ufffd Fragonard, and Flemish-born Bavarian architect and designer Fran\ufffdois de Cuvilli\ufffds. From France, the style spread to other countries, where it was grafted onto baroque modes."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (08:58)", "body": "And the first painter whose work I'd like to post here (and will do hopefully by Wednesday) is Caravaggio. He was the first and probably the greatest painter to be affected by the scorn with which the art establishment of the 19th century treated Baroque painting."}, {"response": 3, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (11:54)", "body": "can't wait to see it....you know, i don't know much (obviously) about the different artistic periods...guess i go more with feeling about paintings or other artwork that i fall in love with. this doesn't fit in this topic, probably, but i just love the sculptures of Venus and David (and no, not because they're both naked). Just something about them that draws my attention."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (12:58)", "body": "Oh, if you keep coming back you'll soon be able to tell more or less the differences between art from different periods. But don't worry about it - it is the feeling that counts. And I'll try and find a photo of your Venus and David to post in here."}, {"response": 5, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (14:30)", "body": "woohoo!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (04:59)", "body": "whaa-haa!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (22:18)", "body": "The Lute Player by Caravaggio 94x120cm c. 1596"}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (01:18)", "body": "I chose this painting to start this topic off with, because it was done by Caravaggio (1571-1610), who was probably the first great painter to paint in this style. His early works consisted largely of genre paintings, such as the one above: A boy, painted with colours so full and rich that he can easily be mistaken for a girl. His beautiful, girlish face is framed by seductive curls, his hands are cracful, and cracefully playing the curved lute, his lips are soft and parted - perhaps he is singing? Therefore it is easy to understand why 16th century viewers found this charm frightnening, decadent. It becomes obvious that its painter neither approve nor disapproved of this young man: he presents him as he is, and adds an underlying sadnes ; he is a creature whose favours will fade with time, and whose music will end in a dark room somewhere. The flowers will dry up, and fruit will rot - just so will the young lute player whither too."}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (01:19)", "body": "DAMN. ..... graceful, and gracefully playing the lute, . . . . that should read. Sorry."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (07:39)", "body": "My next contribution is this one by Orazio Gentileschi (1563-1639). Orazio Gentileschi Madonna and Child early 1600's Afraid alot of paintings before impressionism are religious. But isn't this one just beautiful?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:44)", "body": "it is indeed. and look at the halo around the angel's head, it's so delicate..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (18:21)", "body": "Mary and Jesus seem so natural in this painting."}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (01:22)", "body": "Very much so. If more religious art, if more people were as touching as this, so without pretence and hipocricy, then perhaps even I might have been saved!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (05:36)", "body": "Now, here is something with a political theme: Peter Paul Rubens 'The Apotheosis of Henri IV and the Proclamation of the Regency' c. 1621/25 391cm x 727cm In other words, a HUGE painting. I find that the vitality and tenderness of Rubens' paintings make for such an unusual combination that it seems almost unlikely that he became such a success as a political artist. But his genius was immense, and this is an excellent example of why he became so successful. This one is from a series of paintings commissioned by Marie de'Medici, the widowed Queen Mother of France, who needed artistic help in refurbishing and decorating her Luxembourg Palace. Although he is depicting a historical event, the painting is set in terms of classical myth - that, I think, is what makes his works so enduring and vibrant. I think he could probably make a mountain of art over any political molehill of fact."}, {"response": 15, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:25)", "body": "Henri IV will go down in history as the great conciliator--he converted to catholicism (he was protestant) for the sake of keeping France united and preached religious tolerance. (After Marie de Medici kicked Diane de Poitiers out of the chateau in Chenonceau that Henri had given her, I guess she needed help decorating it.)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (11:22)", "body": "Peter Paul Rubens 'Union of Earth and Water' 1618 222.5cm x 180.5cm I suppose that with today's attitude towards fat people Rubens' paintings must be fairly unattractive to alot of people. He was defenitely a great painter of the fair and the fat. And how beautiful his women are! According to my books Rubens was probably one of the most stable, fortunate artists who ever lived. He was handsome, healthy, well-educated, good-humoured, clever, wealthy, twice married, both times with blissful success, and one of the egreatest and most influential artists ever. And on top of all that he was a thoroughly good person. I find this all very evident in his paintings as well. There is just such a sweetness in his work. People in his paintings tend to look at one another with trust, accep ance and confidence. Another artist I would have liked to have met."}, {"response": 17, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (18:27)", "body": "I love the detail in this one, the fruit, the skin, the water--it's so meticulous."}, {"response": 18, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (21:43)", "body": "i like this. look how she looks at him. y'all did notice the rather muscular cat trying to get a bit of fruit."}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:07)", "body": "Lucky for them it's obviously vegetarian....."}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (08:44)", "body": "Here's something pretty amazing for you. Jan Brueghel (1568-1625) 'Allegory of Sight' 1670 Oil on Canvas Jan was the second of the three sons of Pieter Brueghel (c.1525-69) who was the greatest Netherlandish painter and draughtsman of the 16th century. Jan's specialities were still lifes and landscapes, but he worked in an entirely different spirit from his father - using brilliant colours and mythological figures. His elder brother, Pieter the Younger (1564-1638) is best known for his copies an variants of his father's peasant scenes. His other speciality was scenes of fires, which earned him the nicknam , 'Hell' Brueghel. Pieter Brueghel III (1589-c.1640) - yeah, I know! - was the lesser artist in the family, and never achieved fame or recognition. Poor bugger."}, {"response": 21, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:47)", "body": "This one is so rich with detail, I love it. What are they watching on TV, \"Angels Among Us\"?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (20:23)", "body": "my goodness, look at all the paintings within the painting!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (01:18)", "body": "ha-ha, Autumn! Suppose they had to watch TV by candle light back in those days, since they had no electricity. It's amazing, isn't it, Wolf? It's painting like this one that make my illusional bubble of artistic skills burst like it never existed in the first place. And each painting within the painting is just overflowing with detail - not just some vague little suggestions in the backgrounds - they're for real!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (12:22)", "body": "exactly, and the subject matter is different too. he just put his whole career into one piece of work! very clever... (you know, at first, the picture on the table did look like a laptop!)"}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (12:36)", "body": "Yes, that's just what I thought!!! ha-ha!! So, how about it, Wolfie. You with your naturalistic skills could do something like that."}, {"response": 26, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (20:35)", "body": "i'm not real good with drawing people or animals. i mean, i try, but the stuff looks funny to me. think i could just paint skies all the time?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  1, 1998 (01:01)", "body": "Sure, why not!? I just paint figures all the time, and nobody ever seems to wonder where the landscapes are! They ASSUME you can do them, because you call yourself an artist! ha-ha!!! But I'm a stern believer in the one golden rule of Art: paint what you're good at, not what you think you ought to be able to paint. I mean, why concentrate on something one is bad at, when you're GOOD at something else already? And you're not just good at painting skies, the rest of your landscape was very good as well! I shall post Wer my first ever painting effort - an effort at being a naturalist in painting a studen in Caius College, Cambridge. THe poor guy would by seriously offended if he ever saw it, and it's give you a good laugh!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  1, 1998 (01:02)", "body": "Damn, sorry for all the mistakes - having a bad flu, and not concentrating so well."}, {"response": 29, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep  1, 1998 (10:35)", "body": "hope you feel better soon!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (01:07)", "body": "Thanks, Wolf. I'm okay."}, {"response": 31, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (10:16)", "body": "i hope so! we can't have our Queen Babe Goddess of the Spring feeling bad!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (01:08)", "body": "Why, gee, what do ya know?? I feel wonderfully invigorated all of a sudden! Great to see your bear face here, King Hunk God of the Spring!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (10:35)", "body": "Canaletto 'Piazza San Marco' 1735-1740 Canaletto was the most famous view painter of the 18th century. I think this painting demonstrates why."}, {"response": 34, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (10:45)", "body": "wow!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (15:08)", "body": "Or wowl! in your case...."}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (15:11)", "body": "I'd like to come back to the first artist whose work I posted in this topic, namely Caravaggio. You know, the painter who painted boys so girlishly that his works were considered to be decadent by the public and other artists alike. Now, his religious paintings were ifen more controversial. A good example is this one: Caravaggio 'The Death of the Virgin' 1605-06 370cm x 244 cm This painting really drew down condemnation for its uncompromising realism. The Carmelite priests who commisioned it rejected it in the end, saying it was indecent. There was even a rumour that the model for the Virgin had been a drowned prostitute. I must say I find it a somewhat disturbing picture too; the way the light almost strikes the corpse's plain face as she lies there, sprawled across the bed with the dirty looking pair of feet sticking out quite unromatically. What is disturbing to me is the way he presents death as an event with a great deal of grief; there is no sense of hope in this painting, just this heavy DEAD feeling. But it's the way it should be, I feel. The poor, aged, worn Virgin he painted makes sense to me, as well as the grief of the Apostles. I mean, this woman was all they had left of Jesus, right? The woman in the forground, I guess, must be Mary Magdalene. I find her very very poignant - she mourns differently from the Apostles; perhaps she mourns for Maria, and they for Jesus. And unlike most other religious paintings mary does not ascend to Heaven gloriously. She is surrounded by scarlet - perhaps a symbol of her Son's blood. I could go on. Basically I just find it an incredible painting."}, {"response": 37, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (21:25)", "body": "are Carmelites not a Catholic order? the non-ascension thing strikes me as odd, also... and, I do like the painting (maybe my Protestant brainwashing is leaking out...)"}, {"response": 38, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (22:09)", "body": "What denomination, wer? (Methodist here)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (22:15)", "body": "Southern Baptist"}, {"response": 40, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 17, 1998 (01:03)", "body": "Oh, THAT's what they call atheists nowadays!!! Just kidding, Wer, though I shouldn't, because I used to be DUTCH REFORMED before becoming a relativist.... Yes, the Carmelites are catholics. And that is, of course, what made the painting so shocking. So I must be a good thing."}, {"response": 41, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Sep 17, 1998 (15:36)", "body": "what is a relativist? (methodist by baptism, but really don't claim any particular protestant sect)"}, {"response": 42, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 18, 1998 (00:54)", "body": "I suppose. But I sure don't see myself as a protestant - probably sound like one alot of the time though! More like a person who believes in God, but it's more of a personal thing, and the person doesn't belong to any specific church, protestant or catholic. I figure I've had all the church going I can TAKE as a child. So much so, it turned me into a good atheist for a while - but that's not me either. I need a spiritual life of some sort to be happy, and so now I believe in God as I see Him."}, {"response": 43, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep 18, 1998 (15:26)", "body": "no, i don't believe God belongs to any specific church. He is ours and we are His. there are things in both Catholic and Protestant faiths that i don't agree with."}, {"response": 44, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Sep 18, 1998 (16:59)", "body": "What faith does Dutch Reformed most closely resemble?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 21, 1998 (21:49)", "body": "Oh, Jesus, Autumn, I don't know. But the rightest of right-wing Irish protestant kind of faith is utterly liberal in comparison...."}, {"response": 46, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep 22, 1998 (21:34)", "body": "so it's like puritan law or something? all i know is i believe. i really don't like visiting a catholic church and being told that i cannot have communion. so, what, did Jesus only hang out with the people who \"belonged\"? i don't think so. and communion means a great deal to me. i was seriously offended. AND i had gone with my mother (who is Catholic) and SHE was the one who wouldn't let me participate. can you imagine? i think she was too stuck on rules."}, {"response": 47, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Sep 22, 1998 (23:43)", "body": "yeah, 'cause if you don't believe, all that will happen at communion is that you'll just be eating crackers, bread, etc... and drinking grape juice, wine, etc...instead of being a cannibal like everyone else..."}, {"response": 48, "author": "kristen", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (00:11)", "body": "I spent hours in the Piazza San Marco. The artist captured it perfectly...minus all the annoying Italian guys hitting on me. They never show them in the paintings!!!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (01:19)", "body": "That's because Italian guys never stay with one particular girl long enough to be painted...."}, {"response": 50, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (03:16)", "body": "good point"}, {"response": 51, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (10:06)", "body": "lol!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (10:18)", "body": "Stick with Norwegian guys, Kristen."}, {"response": 53, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (13:37)", "body": "Absolutely! Italian guys are ghastly! art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 2, "subject": "The new topic incubator (suggest new topics for art here)", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "eustacia", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (12:48)", "body": "Hi all, I did write something in the Introduce yourself area, but that seems to have gotten lost. I would suggest the topic of Harrison Fisher. For those of you that don't know of him, he was an illustrator in the early part of this century. For many if us collecting his work is a passion. I started collecing Fisher about six years ago. When did everyone else start? I have emailed everyone I know that collects Fisher, except Naomi. If anyone has her address please let her know about this web site. My favorite piece if Fishers work is the Sept. 1925 issue of Cosmo. art conference | Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 20, "subject": "Neoclassicism and Romanticism", "response_count": 26, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (07:23)", "body": "Is Francois Boucher a neoclassic or rococo artist? Reference: http://www.oir.ucf.edu/wm/paint/auth/boucher/"}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (09:04)", "body": "Francios Boucher (1703-1770) was a Rococo painter, engraver and designer. He portrayed the superficiality of French court life around the middle of the 18th century. His career was hugely succesful, and he became the favourite artist of Louis XV's most famous msitress, Madamme de Pompadour, tho whom he gave lessons (in all sorts of things, I suspect!) and whose portrait he painted many times. Boucher was extremely versatile, and mastered absolutely every branch of decorative and illustrative painting, ven doing stage settings for the opera. His most important pupil was Fragonard."}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (05:52)", "body": "Okay, let's get this topic going properly. Eug\ufffdne Delacroix 'An Orphan Girl in the Graveyard' 1824 65cm x 54cm This painting is so full and alive, despite its grave theme. I love the way the girl in the painting is not a tearful, passive orphan, but a vibrant young beauty, full of life, alamred by death, but nevertheless bare-shouldered as she looks away from the graves - towards rescue? Despite her label she is no victim."}, {"response": 4, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:27)", "body": "There are a lot of question marks surrounding this one."}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (11:24)", "body": "Such as?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (18:29)", "body": "Her expression holds so much emotion: fear, apprehension, bewilderment...it's unsettling."}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:09)", "body": "Yes, you're right. But I love the energy in her face. The feeling that she WANTS to survive whatever turmoil this tragedy will bring with it. Wonderful painting. Time for another, do you think? To set your mind at ease. I'll go look."}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (07:45)", "body": "Here's a strange, sweet example of early neoclassicism. David Allan (1744-96) 'Family of the 7th Earl of Mer at Alloa House' 1783"}, {"response": 9, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:53)", "body": "I always love those pictures of the landed gentry smoking their pipes with their dogs at their feet. Makes you kinda miss feudalism, you know?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (01:45)", "body": "ha-ha! Wish I could have seen what it was like to live like that back then."}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (01:35)", "body": "Thomas Gainsborough 'Mrs Richard Brinsley Sheridan' 1985-86 220cm x 154cm Mrs Richard Brinsley Sheridan had a pretty tempestuous marriage with the great playwright Sheridan, as well as being renowned for her singing voice and her unearthly beauty. This portrait conveys loneliness to me. Only the grave, beautiful face is solid: everything else, from her dress to the wistful melancholy setting sun is thin and unstable. Very beautiful painting."}, {"response": 12, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:48)", "body": "I am a great admirer of tempestuousness and unearthliness! They make great painting subjects."}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (01:20)", "body": "They sure do!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (01:30)", "body": "Here's a very famous one: Francisco Goya 'The Colossus' 1810-12 115cm x 104cm This painting is popularly known under the title, 'Panic'. This painting is an analogy for the monstrous destruction of war, one of the bloodiest in Spain's history when Napoleon invaded the contry and a guerilla war begin between the people of Spain and the French occupying forces. But this painting is more than just a historical document. I find it extraordinary how Goya managed to visualize fear for us, given it conrete form: a huge, hostiile presence, not even looking down at the terrified masses elow - more like the monster of one's nightmares. There is a darkness in this work, an anger and wildness, that represents something within all of us, repress it though we may."}, {"response": 15, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:38)", "body": "It's pretty menacing--you can imagine all those little soldiers wetting their pants when they see Godzilla bearing down on them."}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:02)", "body": "Yes, only in this case Godzilla is merely a figment of their imagination - which in a way, makes him even more scary of course!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (14:59)", "body": "Ford Madox Brown (1821-93) 'Work' (1852-63) Though this work was completed twelve years after the beginning of the Impressionist period, I find the feel of it neoclassical rather than impressionist. Brown was born in Calais, but settled in his country of origin, England, in 1846 where he became a friend of the Pre-Raphaelites - which is the influence one can see in this work, I think. Rossetti studied briefly with him in 1848, but he never became a member of the Brotherhood. Personal characteristics were his individualism and difficult temperament. I find the colouring of this painting brilliant - no wonder it took him so long to do! The way in which the poor workers are presented is very idealistic though - one can see he was never one of them, and therefore the painting, for all its brilliance, doesn't move me at all. There is no feeling of sympathy for these poor people."}, {"response": 18, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (15:04)", "body": "i dunno, just wondering what the little boy did that his mother had to grab him by the ear!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (17:20)", "body": "What's he shoveling?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (20:08)", "body": "yeah, i was wondering what they were doing. looks like they're digging a hole... (nothing like stating the obvious)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (01:16)", "body": "Digging a hole to bury the boy in, once his mother's finished with him, I think!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (12:16)", "body": "Thomas Gainsborough 'Mr. and Mrs Andrews 1749 71 x 120 cm Thomas Gainsborough was one of the artists who led English painting into this great period. I love this painting, though more for the landscape than the way in which he portrays Mr. and Mrs Andrews."}, {"response": 23, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (21:50)", "body": "mr andrews is a sloppy old chap isn't he? feel sorry for mrs andrews..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (22:07)", "body": "She knew what he was like when she married him. It was just too good of a match to pass up."}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 27, 1998 (03:42)", "body": "They look like they deserve each other to me."}, {"response": 26, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Oct  1, 1998 (14:20)", "body": "Exactly. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 21, "subject": "The impressionists", "response_count": 74, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (07:28)", "body": "From http://longwood.cs.ucf.edu/~MidLink/Impress.html Impressionist art is a style in which the artist captures the image of an object as someone would see it if they just caught a glimpse of it. They paint the pictures with a lot of color and most of their pictures are outdoor scenes. Their pictures are very bright and vibrant. The artists like to capture their images without detail but with bold colors. Some of the greatest impressionist artists were Edouard Manet, Camille Pissaro, Edgar Degas, Alfred Sisley, Claude Monet, Berthe Morisot and Pierre Auguste Renoir. Manet influenced the development of impressionism. He painted everyday objects. Pissaro and Sisley painted the French countryside and river scenes. Degas enjoyed painting ballet dancers and horse races. Morisot painted women doing everyday things. Renoir loved to show the effect of sunlight on flowers and figures. Monet was interested in subtle changes in the atmosphere. Some places you can see the works of these impressionist artists are Netscape:Web museum:L'impressionism among others are Soho Print Poster-Impressionist and HREF=\"http://www.secondnature.com/art.htm\">Impressionists Subject Page . There are many impressionist artists that you can see, but our favorite is Claude Monet. You can see some of his works at The Web Museum Network . This famous painting, Sunrise , was painted by Claude Monet. He displayed it at a Paris art show and because of the patchy texture, it caused one critic to call the whole show impressionist , which gave the movement it's name. Monet had a fascination with light and that led him to not only paint this picture, but also several others showing the same effect on different objects."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (09:20)", "body": "I like Monet too, but I really can't always decide on a favourite impressionist; sometimes he is my favourite, and sometimes somebody else is. They were all wonderful in their own way, because they are the ones who, in my opinion, turned art into someth ing truly creative and something to be admired and loved by everyone, not just people with status or money or a great education. But why don't we start at the beginning, with the Pre-Raphaelites. Pre-Raphaelism was a movement started by a group of young artists in England who reacted aginsts the 'art of the day'. Their ambitions was to bring English art back to a greater 'truth t o nature'. The first painting I would like to post here was done by Millais in the middle 1800's. It is a picture which depicts Shakespeare's tragic story of Ophelia who was driven to madness and suicide by Hamlet's murder of her father, Polonius. You robably know this painting, but I'll post it anyway, because the beautiful flowers floating on the surface of the water are not merely there for decoration, but fulfilled a strong symbolical purpose, as they each had a traditional meaning. Daisies meant Innocence Poppies meant Death Roses meant Youth Pansies stood for Love in vain Violets symbolized Faithfulness Also it is a truly exquisite painting, and defenitely deserves a place here."}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (07:06)", "body": "So, here in all its glory: Sir John Everett Millais \"Ophelia\" 1851-52 75 x 112cm"}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (07:09)", "body": "Apparently Millais spent four months painting the background vegetation on the same spot in Surrey, England. Then he went back to London, and painted his model, Elizabeth Siddal, posing in a bath full of water. The result is indeed oddly disconnected, a slmost as if the water, the flowers, the grass and leaves, and finally the girl did not quite belong together, each keeping its own truth. I find it a wonderful, haunting painting."}, {"response": 5, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (17:46)", "body": "i like it..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (03:38)", "body": "I find it haunting."}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (04:26)", "body": "Another wonderful neo-impressionist painting is this one by Georges Seurat (1859-91). Georges Seurat Paris, 1859 'Sunday Afternoon on the Island of the Grande Jatte' 202cm x 300cm A typical Sunday afternoon at the Grand Jatte, a popular site on an island in the River Seine to the north-west of Paris. When this painting was first shown it was received with treat indignation by most artists and critics of the day. They disapproved of Seurat's revolutionary new painting technique, known as Pointillisme. The surface of the painting is broken up, with the colour painted onto the canvas as tiny dots of pure colour. The result is a mesmerizing haze of brilliant colour."}, {"response": 8, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (17:39)", "body": "this one doesn't appeal to me, it seems rigid...they don't look like they're having fun....."}, {"response": 9, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (22:11)", "body": "\"Ophelia\" is pretty disturbing--how'd you like that one hanging over your sofa?? I like the Pointilist technique; though there are others by Seurat I like better, there are none so popular as this one."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (01:39)", "body": "Blame it on the fashions of those days, Wolf - they just couldn't breathe, that's all!! I bet Charles Manson would have loved for Ophelia to be hanging over his sofa!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (01:56)", "body": "Okay, here's another of my favourites - you girls are so hard to please!!! \ufffdBIG SMILE\ufffd Claude Monet (1840-1926) 'Poppies' 1873 50cm x 64cm Post your favourites too, will ya!! Or tell me what your favourites are, and I'll go look for them, and post them."}, {"response": 12, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:14)", "body": "now i like this one. as a child, i remember wondering through fields. this is so much more relaxed than the first one posted. didn't monet do one with irises or water lilies?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:29)", "body": "Yes, Monet did some water lilies. I find his style and that of Renoir so similar in some ways (probably because the two worked together so closely during the late 1860s, painting the same sort of scenes. I mostly prefer Renoir, because I find his work a bit more 'solid' than Monet's. Monet's attention seems always to have been fixed on the ever changing light, while Renoir seems to have been entranced by people. But he was capable of capturing both the changing light and the person he painted with equ l vividness, yet in a way that doesn't detract attention from either. Here is a good example: Pierre-Auguste Renoir (1841-1919) 'The Swing' 1876 92cm x 73cm"}, {"response": 14, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (14:08)", "body": "this one is nice and relaxing. i love the inclusion of the little girl waiting her turn (probably wondering why this lady is on HER swing)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (01:35)", "body": "Yes, precisely - that is just what makes him such a wonderful painter. He is SUCH a keen observer."}, {"response": 16, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (21:17)", "body": "Stunning. I always loved Renoir's \"Girl with a Watering Can\" and \"Two Sister on a Terrace.\" The gorgeous irises you're thinking of, Wolf, are by Van Gogh."}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (06:40)", "body": "Here you go: Vincent van Gogh 'Irises' 1889 71cm x 90cm How about devoting a topic to this incredible artist?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (07:08)", "body": "Splendid idea. Please open it."}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (07:17)", "body": "Will do."}, {"response": 20, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:47)", "body": "do you have water lilies?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (01:35)", "body": "Here you go, Wolfie! Claude Monet \"Water Lilies (The Clouds)\" 1903 74.6cm x 105.3cm Fantastic, isn't it? Would you like me to open a topic on Monet?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (22:22)", "body": "yes, let's! i love the reflection of the clouds, it's as if saying the picture doesn't end where i paint it, see that's water and the clouds are there...."}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (01:18)", "body": "Yes, exactly. It is as if his pictures don't end where the canvas does. They just go on and on. I'll open his topic today."}, {"response": 24, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:28)", "body": "I have a huge poster of water lilies that I bought in Giverney--it's the first thing I see when I wake up in the morning."}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (11:25)", "body": "That sounds just like you."}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (11:30)", "body": "Here's a typical Degas for those of you who are fans:"}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (11:31)", "body": "Oh dear, nearly forgot: Edgar Degas 'The Dancing Lesson' 1871-1874"}, {"response": 28, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (18:31)", "body": "Big fan here! Love his ballerinas as well as other occupations--remember \"The Millinery Shop?\" Great hats."}, {"response": 29, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:11)", "body": "Well, great - I'll see to it that we have more Degas in here then."}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (07:57)", "body": "Let's see if a summery painting by Bazille pleases you more than the Seurat I posted earlier.... Fr\ufffdd\ufffdric Bazille (1841-70) 'Summer Scene' 1869 I adore it anyway!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (11:13)", "body": "i dunno, looks like an obsession commercial...."}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (15:12)", "body": "ha-ha!!! An obsession commercial????? What's that?!?!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (16:05)", "body": "all these models standing around a nondescript backdrop just staring into space and stuff."}, {"response": 34, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (00:46)", "body": "And I thought you'd like all those nice boy bums! But it's difficult to tell with wolves, isn't it? ha-ha! I'll try and find something with a juice squirrel or rabbit - perhaps THAT'LL make your mouth water."}, {"response": 35, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (11:25)", "body": "how about some juicy manly men?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (12:14)", "body": "sounds good!! I'll go have a look."}, {"response": 37, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:55)", "body": "Ha ha!! They do have that disinterested \"whatever!\" Calvin Klein look, don't they?"}, {"response": 38, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:59)", "body": "yes!! especially the dude against the tree! will have to find a CK obsession ad to post here for riette's benefit..."}, {"response": 39, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (01:46)", "body": "NOOOO PLEEEEEEEZE!!! I never LOOKED further up than those little striped bums, so I apologize for the faces."}, {"response": 40, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (01:43)", "body": "Eduard Manet (1832-1883) 'On the Beach' 1873"}, {"response": 41, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (12:52)", "body": "she looks like she's wearing sneakers! it must be a cold day to hang out there but the sound of the water draws them to be near it."}, {"response": 42, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (17:05)", "body": "Wearing sneakers, is she under contract to Nike?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (01:31)", "body": "HA-HA!! Maybe she's just getting ready for a game of beach volleyball once she finishes reading her Vogue magazine!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (13:12)", "body": "Here's a pretty neat one by an American artist of the 1800's. Martin Johnson Heade (1819-1904) 'Approaching Storm: Bear Near Newport' 1860 I think the light in this painting is just brilliantly done."}, {"response": 45, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (13:07)", "body": "Here's another Yankee painting.... Mary Cassatt (1844-1926) 'Two Women Throwing Flowers During Carnaval' 1872 I've read a bit about this artist - that she was an American painter and printmaker who worked mostly in Paris, and very much admired Degas. But this is the first time I've seen her work. Think it's excellent."}, {"response": 46, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:39)", "body": "I love Cassatt's work, but had never seen this one before. The color's a bit lackluster, I think."}, {"response": 47, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:04)", "body": "I admire her wonderful presentation of the two women. So beautifully drawn, and the expression on the fat one's face is just lovely."}, {"response": 48, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:21)", "body": "At the moment I feel we're falling around a bit in the topics. Do you like that, or should I work through the different artists more thoroughly? I could for instance for a few days post a few pics covering the active period of a certain artist for us to discuss - that way we'll get to know him better as an artist, and see how his/her work progressed over the years. And the same with the other topics. Would that not be more interesting? You decide - it's just a suggestion."}, {"response": 49, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:40)", "body": "If I knew anything about art, I wouldn't need this here conference now would I? You lead, Mistress, and we shall follow. (or not, as you well know...)"}, {"response": 50, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (03:39)", "body": "ha-ha!!! I'll try and create a bit more order than, if that's alright by all of you! \ufffdbig hug, muffin!\ufffd"}, {"response": 51, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (23:17)", "body": "Bring on the retrospectives!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (01:42)", "body": "will do!!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (09:43)", "body": "we're here to learn. you know, i could probably CLEP Art Appreciation after all the stuff we've discussed in this conference. keep up the good work, riette. heck, i spend more time in here than my own conference *grin*"}, {"response": 54, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (12:13)", "body": "(me, too...look how I've let all of mine go...)"}, {"response": 55, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (16:59)", "body": "well, at least people are visiting your conferences!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (17:25)", "body": "I run through your's at least once a week... sooner, if I see responses!!!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (18:44)", "body": "yeah, i'll go into the participants section and check to see if anyone's been there lately."}, {"response": 58, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (02:15)", "body": "And as soon as my head recovers I am going to read your poetry."}, {"response": 59, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (12:08)", "body": "no rush! really!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (14:26)", "body": "I know - but I can't wait! I admire people who write well - I'm not good enough at any specific language to be able to. Not to mention lack of talent."}, {"response": 61, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (14:44)", "body": "Zacharie Astruc (1833-1907) Although I could find neither title, nor date for this painting, its creator deserves a place in this topic, as he was one of the first champions of Impressionism. Astruc was a sculptor, painter and art critic, and participated in the very first Impressionist exhibition, as well as the Exposition Universalle of 1900."}, {"response": 62, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (15:01)", "body": "the girl is holding, perhaps, what looks like a sewing box and the woman is taking her tea with crumpets. interesting...."}, {"response": 63, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (21:51)", "body": "It's a very nice family tableau--wonder if it's his family."}, {"response": 64, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (01:18)", "body": "No idea! I quite like the picture too - the colouring is a bit unusual, but nice."}, {"response": 65, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (12:18)", "body": "whereas I would throw it on the bonfire, I think..."}, {"response": 66, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (15:10)", "body": "Will do! Don't want my loggers-in to be unhappy with the things I post!!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (15:19)", "body": "don't tell me you listen to the critics, too..."}, {"response": 68, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (01:25)", "body": "Always! Some people just THINK I don't! Go look in Bonfire II if ya don't believe me!!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 15, 1998 (04:00)", "body": "Okay, in a more ordered fashion, let's explore the work of an early impressionist. Eduard Manet (1832-1883) 'Bench' Before 1860 Eduard Manet was one of the first artists to manage the jump from Realism to Impressionism. I find this a very gentle painting - wonder what the painter was like as a person."}, {"response": 70, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (22:10)", "body": "I love it, it's so inviting! Makes me wish it were my garden."}, {"response": 71, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 17, 1998 (01:04)", "body": "Hmm - I'd love to have my husband alone on a bench like that for two hours....who knows, I might still have my little boy!"}, {"response": 72, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 27, 1998 (04:48)", "body": "Eduard Manet 'Olympia' 1863 This painting caused great outrage when it was exhibited at the Salon in Paris. The reclining nude (who was based on Titian's 'Venus of Urbino') with her blatant sexuality was thought a blatant affront to accepted standards of morality. One critic wrote of it, 'Art sunk so low does not even deserve reproach.'"}, {"response": 73, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Oct  1, 1998 (14:23)", "body": "I always liked Olympia! The Met. Museum of Art even sells the reproduction chokers."}, {"response": 74, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct  2, 1998 (05:13)", "body": "I like her too. She looks so comfortable with, and proud of her nudity/sexuality. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 22, "subject": "20TH century Art", "response_count": 75, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (07:29)", "body": "Again, as I queried in some of your other topics, Riette, which artists spring to your mind?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (09:24)", "body": "MANY!!! Picasso, of course (Les Demoiselles D'Avignon 1907) Henri Matisse (The Conversation 1909) Wassily Kadinsky (Sea Battle 1913) Piet Mondrian (Diamond Painting in Red, Yellow and Blue 1921) Paul Klee (Death and Fire 1940) Salvador Dali (Persistence of Memory 1931) Jackson Pollock (Number 1, 1950) Mark Rothko (Black and Grey 1969) Andy Warhol (Marilyn 1962) Jasper Johns (Dancers on a Plane 1980) Lucian Freud (Standing by the Rags 1989) And many, many, many more!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (11:28)", "body": "What about Benton?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (16:22)", "body": "Now there's an American whose name I do know! Thomas Hart Benton. His style was richly coloured and vigorous and full of rhythm, and his work include the scenes from American life murals at the New School for Social Research in New York; he was also the one who called Modern art a \"simple smearing and pouring of material, good for nothing but to release neurotic tensions\", and that it became like a \"bowel movement or a vomiting spell\" (!!). Must say with some modern art my opinion pretty much matches his!!! For those who want to find out more about Benton: he wrote two biographies \"An Artist in America\" (1937) and \"An American in Art\" (1969) - neither of which I have read."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (19:51)", "body": "I was in awe of Thomas Hart Benton the first time I saw his monumental pieces in the state capitol of Missouri. Very powerful."}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (00:34)", "body": "Do you have some photos to post? I'd love to see it."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (06:32)", "body": "Thomas Hart Benton (1889-1975) Another photograph of Benton . Thomas Hart Benton, Grant Wood and John Steuart Curry are considered the most important artists of the Regionalism movement. Benton is also remembered as the teacher of abstract expressionist painter Jackson Pollock . The Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art in Kansas City, Missouri has an excellent collection of Benton's work, including Persephone and Hollywood (see below). If you're in the Kansas City area, other work by Benton can be seen at the Harry S Truman Library in Independence and at Benton's home and studio, which are open for tours . Benton's mural A Social History of the State of Missouri can be seen at the Missouri State Capitol in Jefferson City, Missouri Work by Benton that you can see on http://math.furman.edu/~dsmead/benton.html : People of Chilmark , 1920, oil on canvas, in the Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden, Smithsonian Institution. Hollywood , 1937, tempera with oil on canvas, mounted on panel, in the Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art, Kansas City, Missouri Persephone , 1938-1939, egg tempera and resin oil over casein on linen over panel, in the Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art, Kansas City, Missouri Independence and the Opening of the West , 1958-1961, acrylic polymer on linen mounted on panel, at the Harry S Truman Library and Museum, Independence, Missouri Here are some links to other sites that include artwork by Benton: 62 Benton works at Jim's Fine Art Collection. Eric Sandquist's page of Benton links Thomas Hart Benton World includes several images by Benton, organized thematically. (But good luck figuring out what the pieces are called...) Cradling Wheat at the University of Michigan The cover of The Rainmakers' self-titled first album includes City Activities with Subway Custer's Last Stand , 1943, at the Albrecht-Kemper Museum of Art in St. Joseph, Missouri A page at the Dallas Museum of Art about The Prodigal Son Chilmark , 1938, at the Butler Institute of American Art Shallow Creek , 1939, at the Sylvan Cole Gallery Planting (Spring Plowing) , 1939, at the National Museum of American Art A page at the department of History at Indiana University includes the mural The Cultural and Industrial History of Indiana , painted for the Chicago World's Fair of 1933. This page about American history includes an image from A Social History of the State of Missouri , Benton's mural at the Missouri State Capitol. Huck Finn , Frankie and Johnnie , and Jesse James , 1936, are lithographs based on scenes in the Missouri mural. The Sowers , 1942 Threshing Wheat at the Sheldon Swope Art Museum in Terre Haute, Indiana Achelous and Hercules , 1947, at the National Museum of American Art A page including Lonesome Road , 1927, and the lithographs Lonesome Road , 1938, and Threshing , 1941, at the Sheldon Memorial Art Gallery and Sculpture Garden at the University of Nebraska - Lincoln. (There's also a brief essay about Benton and Modernism.) Night Firing , 1943, at the Michael C. Carlos Museum at Emory University Several images at UMB Bank dead link Another dead link Bibliography and Filmography An Artist In America is Benton's autobiography, originally published in 1937, with additional chapters added in the later editions to cover the rest of his life. Here is information from the publisher about An Artist in America . Thomas Hart Benton: An American Original by Henry Adams , 1989, which was written to accompany a traveling exhibition of Benton's work. Ken Burns has made a very good documentary for PBS, called Thomas Hart Benton ."}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (06:43)", "body": "Wow, that's brilliant! Thank you, Terry. You have great stuff."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (06:50)", "body": "No, actually, http://www.inference.com has great stuff. It takes me all of 7 seconds to find it! Just go there and type in an artists name and you'll be amazed at the results. And 'view source' is such a powerful command."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (06:53)", "body": "Right! So I should take the compliment back?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (07:02)", "body": "Something like this knocks me off my feet."}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (10:51)", "body": "It's very well done, but has a very sinister feel to it, what with Charles Manson lurking in the background and everything. Something bothers me about this painting - don't think I've ever really taken note of it before, Terry. Certainly can't remember it from any of my books or the museums I've visited. Can you tell me more about it?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (11:19)", "body": "I just saw it for the first time. It would be interesting to hear the history on it."}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (13:11)", "body": "And you don't know who painted it?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (16:00)", "body": "It's quite creepy."}, {"response": 16, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (21:40)", "body": "ok, is the guy being malicious or curious? cuz that would alter the way i feel about that piece of work."}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (23:52)", "body": "Thomas Hart Benton painted it. A search reveals: Perseph\ufffdne Daughter of god king Zeus, wife of Hades, who kidnapped her as she was a girl. Since this time she lives a third of the year in the underworld realm of Hades (during this period the plants wither on earth) and the other two thirds she lives with her Mother, the earth goddess Demeter. And Demeter and Persephone (Greece/Rome) Demeter (Roman: Ceres) was one of the six children of Kronos and Rhea, and the sister of Zeus, to whom she bore the child Persephone (Roman: Proserpina). One day, Persephone was out picking flowers with the other maidens (among them the godesses Hecate and Artemis, the sister of Apollo) when she spied a particularly beautiful flower that had been set there as a trap by Hades, the god of the underworld. When she picked it, the earth split open and Hades carried her off to his kingdom in his chariot, to become his queen. When Demeter learned what happened, the grief-stricken goddess began to search for her daughter. She took the guise of an old woman and became the nurse for a king's young son. At night, Demeter would hold the child by his heel in the fire, in order to make him immortal; but the queen discovered this one night and let out a scream, causing Demeter to remove the child from the flames just before he would have gained immortality (notice the similarity to the story of Isis). To make up for their lack of trust in the goddess, the king's family established the Mysteries of Eleusis, the principal ceremonies of worship of Demeter, which lasted well into the Christian era. Demeter demanded that Hades return her daughter, when he refused, and Zeus refused to intervene, Demeter neglected her duties as goddess of agriculture, causing the crops to die and animals and humans to become barren; eventually the other gods relented, but it was ruled that because Persephone had eaten a pomegranate seed, she would have to stay in the underworld for part of the year. (see other examples of \"the sacrifice and the gift\") According to one tradition, Persephone, rather than Semele, is the mother of Dionysos. Sources: Campbell, Joseph. Primitive Mythology. New York: Arkana, 1991. The Homeric Hymn to Demeter, trans. by David G. Rice and John E. Stambough in Classical Mythology, ed. by Stephen L. Harris and Gloria Platzner. Mountain View, CA, London, & Toronto: Mayfield, 1995."}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (23:56)", "body": "And we find an even more amazing connection, of relevance to our community: Most of our information about the Eleusinian Mystery comes from the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, an anonymous seventh century B.C. poem. The poem describes the mythical founding of the Mystery by Demeter, who was grief stricken by the abduction of her daughter Persephone (also called Kore) by the god Hades, lord of the underworld. Demeter caused all of the plants on the Earth to die. Zeus, fearing humankind would also die and leave nobody to make sacrifices to the gods, interceded with Hades and forced him to return Persephone to Demeter. However, Persephone had eaten a pomegranate seed in the underworld and was therefore condemned to return to Hades for part of each year. This always saddened Demeter, who would again cause the plants to die, to be reborn again in the Spring with the return of Persephone to the world of light. This myth symbolized for the Greeks the natural mystery of the changing seasons and the miracle of the springtime rebirth of cultivated grain, which was essential to their civilization."}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (01:12)", "body": "Brilliant!!! Thank you for all that, Terry! Very very interesting!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (12:14)", "body": "I thought that was kind of cool, albeit a bit of a digression. What other modern artists can we discuss, have we exhausted Benton? I never did come across examples from the Mo. Capitol building, but that doesn't mean I won't keep searching."}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (13:00)", "body": "Can we discuss August Macke? His work is a great inspiration to me. Do you have any pictures of his that you can post here for us to discuss, Terry? I have quite a few, but Wer is up to his ears in work, so I don't want to bother him with it right now. If you don't have any, I can post you mine, and you can post them here. To start with, here's a short biography: August Macke was born in 1887, and was killed in action in the First World War when he was only 27 years old. His painting style can be described as expressionist, but his work evolved into a personal synthesis of Impressionism, Fauvism (painting in intensely vivid non-naturalistic colours) and Orphism (cubism with an element of lyricism and colour). Together with Kadinsky and Marc formed the 'Blaue Reiter' artist group; but as time went on his work moved less towards abstraction than that of the other members of the group."}, {"response": 22, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (14:57)", "body": "Michael Parks is intriguing, as well....."}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (15:52)", "body": "Michael Parks? I don't know that name at all - American? Have you got any examples of his work? I love getting to know the work of artists I don't know of - always hoping to find the ultimate painting."}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (16:42)", "body": "How I did this. 1. Go to http://www.inference.com and click on inference find 2. Find a cool picture you like. 3. Right mouse click on it to get properties 4. Hightlight the address or url with your mouse (swipe over it while holding down the right mouse button). 5. Copy it with control-c or Edit > Copy 6. In your response type a left angle bracket 7. Then type in img src=\" 8. Then paste in your url with Edit > Paste 9. Then add a right angle bracket Try this Riette, for real! It works good. More help is available if you get stuck or have questions."}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (01:32)", "body": ""}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (01:42)", "body": ""}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (01:43)", "body": "It's not working. How did I guess? And now I've mucked up this topic."}, {"response": 28, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (14:44)", "body": "no more so than I have in some..."}, {"response": 29, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (03:39)", "body": "Relieved! Can't even remember what I was trying to post anymore!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (06:13)", "body": "Here's something pretty eye-popping: Egon Schiele (1890-1918) 'The Man and the Monk' Although I never ever want any of his paintings hanging on my walls, I think Schiele's work is brilliant and erotic in a rather disturbing way. The figures he portrays are always lonely or anguished. Unfortunately he died just as he was beginning to receive international acclaim in the influenza epidemic of 1918, and only three days after his wife. Today he is recognized as one of the greatest Expressionist artists."}, {"response": 31, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (22:24)", "body": "i think the man is dying (look at his face) and the monk is there to comfort him. it is rather disturbing and bold..."}, {"response": 32, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:30)", "body": "You can see the influence of cubism in this one; I really like it!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (11:43)", "body": "Yes, it's great. Now for one by a wonderful artist who I believe we have discussed briefly once before: Henri Rousseau 'Woman Walking in an Exotic Forest\" 1905 100cm x 80.7cm"}, {"response": 34, "author": "patas", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (19:13)", "body": "Beautiful! Let me try:"}, {"response": 35, "author": "patas", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (19:15)", "body": "I can't believe it worked! Thanks, Terry! BTW, this is \"Katia reading\", by Balthus."}, {"response": 36, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (21:47)", "body": "love how she's sitting in the chair. and look the way she reads, almost as if she's trying to tear her eyes away but can't..."}, {"response": 37, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:14)", "body": "Sorry, in response number 22, I should have said Michael Parkes... are we going to get around to Swiss surrealist H.R. Giger? his two official sites are http://www.hrgiger.com/ http://www.giger.com/"}, {"response": 38, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:15)", "body": "Very, very nice, Gi. I quite like Balthus. The child prodigy who in the end made it without any formal training! He didn't paint many pictures, but I find his work full of energy and eroticism. Great to have you here, by the way!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:53)", "body": "and to be out of order again, for Michael Parkes, go to http://www.accnorwalk.com/~sgr1/index2.html and especially visit http://www.accnorwalk.com/~sgr1/gorgoyles.html as this is the one we have a print of hanging upstairs..."}, {"response": 40, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (04:18)", "body": "Sorry I neglected you. I had a look at his stuff in inference com, and LOVE it! Really modern, but mega-well-done. Let's see what the others think: Unfortunately I know nothing more about this picture or indeed the artist, so Wer, can you do a short summary on him for us?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (10:07)", "body": "I'll see what I can find..."}, {"response": 42, "author": "patas", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (11:59)", "body": "Reminds me of the Yes LP covers of twenty years ago... Surrealist, or maybe sci-fi-esque. Very beautiful, at least as prints. Give us more. As for Balthus, it often takes him 5 or more years to finish a painting, but he does several at the same time and they're large. And very rich in texture. I'd love to evolve towards that richness in my work. He and Hopper are fantastic in their use of colour to create texture."}, {"response": 43, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (12:47)", "body": "\"Michael Parkes was born in 1944, in Sikeston, Missouri, USA. After his school years he studied at the University of Kansas, and immediately after graduating was appointed a lecturer in graphic techniques first at the Kent State University and later in Florida. He taught at the university for five years, from 1965 to 1970, and then at the age of twenty-six, he and his wife went on a study trip to Europe and Asia. This journey meant a definitive departure from America. Since 1975 Michael Parkes has lived and worked in Spain. He has one-man exhibitions in the USA, Spain, The Netherlands, Switzerland, France, and Germany.\" Excerpt from the book \"Michael Parkes\" by John Russell Taylor and Steltman Galleries."}, {"response": 44, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (13:07)", "body": "Thank you for that, Wer!!! What do you think - shall we start a topic? Gi, what kind of paintings do you do? What medium? And how would you describe your style?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (14:14)", "body": "Very interesting, wer! Is it hanging in Zoe's room?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (00:49)", "body": "Gargoyles? No, it is in Robin's..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:03)", "body": "ha-ha!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "patas", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (04:13)", "body": "(Riette)Gi, what kind of paintings do you do? What medium? And how would you describe your style? I use oils on canvas. I do figurative paintings, maybe I should call it naturalistic - I like to paint human figures, and use photographs (taken by myself, mostly) to work from. I'll either try to have some photos of finished works scanned and post them, or send them to you so you can do it for me, as you kindly suggested. Recently I've been doing a series on Tango dancers - Tango is another passion of mine."}, {"response": 49, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (06:42)", "body": "Great! I also do mostly figures - I like exploring the expression pouring from our bodies all the time, no matter how unimpressed we are on the inside. Can't wait to see your Tango dancers - I can imagine them being bright, vivid, lively figures. Do you dance yourself?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (07:39)", "body": "Here is a painting I just found on the net. See what you think of it. Ivan Albright (1897-1983) 'Into the World there came a Soul named Ida' 1929-30 All I know about this artist is that he was American. I don't know many works by him, and I don't think he needed to produce that much as he came from a wealthy family; but like this one, they all show a morbid obsession with death: the sagging, putrescent flesh, decrepit, decaying bodies. I find it disturbing - as if he were in constant mourning for youth and beauty that is past. By the way, he also did the painting for the Hollywood film of Oscar Wilde's 'Picture of Dorian Gray' (1943), showing the loathsomely currupted title figure. His identical twin brother, Malvin Marr Albright (who is still alive), did the portrait of the young, beautiful Dorian for this film."}, {"response": 51, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:58)", "body": "What a sad painting. And what a sad thing to need to express."}, {"response": 52, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (01:47)", "body": "Terribly."}, {"response": 53, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (15:29)", "body": "Gustav Klimt 'The Virgin' 1913 I find this one BRILLIANT, just BRILLIANT!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (18:14)", "body": "this is interesting. it looks like your style with all the colors and people intertwined."}, {"response": 55, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (00:47)", "body": "Yeah? He is just SOOOOO much better at it than I am. And I've never managed SIX in one before! I just adore the colourful materials of their dresses. Some people interpret the six figures to be six different women. I think they merely represent different facets of a single woman, a virgin's dreams and desires."}, {"response": 56, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (12:54)", "body": "this is interesting....it may be so"}, {"response": 57, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (01:33)", "body": "I'm going to go open a topic on Klimt - his work is really great."}, {"response": 58, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:27)", "body": "Dutch?"}, {"response": 59, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:50)", "body": "Love the painting--CRAZY about the colors!! Bring on the Klimt topic!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (01:20)", "body": "Austrian, Terry."}, {"response": 61, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 27, 1998 (05:08)", "body": "Let's have a look at some paintings from the period of Fauvism. Henri Matisse 'Harmony in Red' 1908-1909 Fauvism was a short-lived movement, lasting only as long as its originator, Henri Matisse (1869-1954), fought to find the artistic freedom he needed. Matisse needed to make colour serve his art, as Gauguin needed to paint the sand pink to express an emotion. The Fauvists believed absolutely as colour as an emotional force. Colour lost its descriptive qualities and became luminous, creating light rather than imitationg it. This is a period I would have loved to have lived through as an artist. By the way, if I post something by an artist, and you like it alot, feel free to go ahead and create a topic, and I'll find the pictures for it. Or tell me to create the topics you desire."}, {"response": 62, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 28, 1998 (13:10)", "body": "My cousin, Barney Ebsworth, collects art for investment. An (unsubstantiated) rumor has it that he recently turned down an offer from golfing buddy Bill Gates (who owns some software company) for this painting: which brings up the subject of Edward Hopper, American painter. Any Hopper fans around here?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 28, 1998 (13:11)", "body": "The referring url for the above Hopper painting is: http://www2.iinet.com/art/artists/major/h/hopper03.htm"}, {"response": 64, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 28, 1998 (13:12)", "body": ""}, {"response": 65, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Oct 28, 1998 (20:04)", "body": "i've not heard of edward hopper. riette, do we need to open a topic for him?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 28, 1998 (22:09)", "body": "Any guesses as to the title of the above Hopper work?"}, {"response": 67, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jun 15, 1999 (12:20)", "body": "OK, y'all give up?"}, {"response": 68, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Jun 15, 1999 (12:32)", "body": "Hopper is okay enough for me. \"Nighthawks at the Diner\" - that's his best known, I guess (also title of brilliant Tom Waits album - listen to it, and you know why...). Dunno that title though. Must be something to do with broadway revue dancers, the way it feels. They're off from rehearsal, small town girls with big thoughts in their heads, stranded in the big city, huddling together so they survive, while already down to selling their bodies."}, {"response": 69, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Jun 16, 1999 (21:37)", "body": "what did i miss? hmmmm...."}, {"response": 70, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jun 17, 1999 (20:48)", "body": "well, it wasn't the (posting of response number) 69..."}, {"response": 71, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jun 18, 1999 (13:30)", "body": "you know i planned it that way.....*grin*"}, {"response": 72, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Jun 18, 1999 (14:13)", "body": "You Kabbalists! Say, is there anything mystic in this world y'all DON'T subscribe to?"}, {"response": 73, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jun 19, 1999 (23:53)", "body": "anything that costs money..."}, {"response": 74, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sun, Jun 20, 1999 (10:07)", "body": "...huh, that's a harsh rebuke to a struggling publisher..."}, {"response": 75, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jun 20, 1999 (10:40)", "body": "sorry, just being honest... art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 23, "subject": "Eroticism in Art", "response_count": 60, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (23:53)", "body": "We can start with the aforementioned Persephone."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (01:12)", "body": "My thoughts exactly."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (12:15)", "body": "Given the information on the Greek myth, how do you view this painting now? Is it erotic in a sense? What other examples come to your mind, Riette."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (13:19)", "body": "Could you post the picture again here, so people will know what we're talking about, please Terry? Also I need to be able to look at it while making comments - I have it in my memory, but I find that it is often the small things that one doesn't see straight away in a painting, that give the best clues to the interpretation. A painting that I find erotic and very moving, is Hero and Leander (painted in 1849) by William Etty. It is based on a myth in which Leander would swim across a stretch of sea to meet his lover Hero, a priestess of Aphrodite. She would guide him by holding up a lighted torch. One night, during a storm, Leander drowned. The grief-stricken Hero threw herself from a tower. In the painting the two dead lovers are shown in their tragic, final embrace. Do you have a photo to post? Again, I can post you ine to put in if you like."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (16:46)", "body": "OK, you asked to have the Persephone painting by Benton, so here it is again in all it's glory, rich with mythology."}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (10:23)", "body": "Yes, I do find the painting both erotic and exciting, Terry. The way Hades creeps up on Persephone is scary, but also exciting - he knows he should not be there, but that is the most erotic part: his obvious, almost akward desire - we all know that he is going to get her, but he doesn't look as if he knows. The thing that 'bothered' me (in a very pleasant way) about this painting is that Persephone herself doesn't look completely unaware of Hades behind the tree. She is not quite as innocent as one mi ht think at first glance. Lying there, pretending to be asleep in that inviting position, naked, she is defenitely waiting for SOMEONE. The beautiful flowers which she came to pick lie in her basket, quite forgotten. She has very different things on her mind - she is thoroughly enjoying this abduction! So in a slightly narrowed context, I think this is about desire, and desiring what we can't/musn't have. But desiring nevertheless. In a broader context, this painting could also be a symbol of seasons, I think. I read up on the myth, and it seems to me that the 'underworld' is a symbol for winter. It says that every time Persephone returned from the underworld, she brought spring with her, and when she went back to Hades all the flowers and other plants withered. Which means that she comes from winter (and which makes Hades the god/king of winter) to bring spring, and when she goes, autumn and finally winter set in again."}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (10:51)", "body": "Here is a favourite of mine: THE BATH Alfred Stevens 1867"}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (10:56)", "body": "Sorry, it's not working. Terry, how can one know whether an image is going to work or not? I tested this one in the tester topic as well just now, but it didn't work. Is it simply to big to post? And with those big pictures, is there any way one can get them smaller? because it's no fun if there are just a bunch of black blocks all over the topics."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (11:23)", "body": "Enclose the url in QUOTES. And it will work."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (12:55)", "body": "Okay, so here goes: THE BATH Alfred Stevens 1867"}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (12:55)", "body": "Damn it!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (14:03)", "body": "That's a url not an image."}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (03:40)", "body": "I did click on the image!!!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (13:36)", "body": "Well, I'm afraid 'The Bath' can't be posted. But here is something else: Paul Gaughin 'Spirit of the Dead Watching' Okay, I know it's got a bit of a sinister undercurrent, but I find almost all his paintings of Polynesian women very erotic. The colours are so warm and intense, and its almost as if he transforms them into goddess figures - obeying only the rules of his imagination.."}, {"response": 15, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:49)", "body": "why can't you post the bath? is it too revealing or something? this one leaves a sense of creepiness as well as eroticism. who hasn't wondered if the dead watch us...."}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (01:38)", "body": "The bath is a stunning painting, and NOTHING's too revealing, but the silly bugger who posted it into the web did not do it in a way that one can post it - tested it several times. But I'll scan my own picture of it through to Wer, so in time we will have it here. And in a version where one can see all of it at once."}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (06:18)", "body": "And if this isn't erotic, I don't know what is... Jean Auguste Dominique Ingres 'Turkish Bath' 1862 1,10m x 1,10m"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (07:59)", "body": "What's the url of the website ? (senses a challenge)."}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (09:38)", "body": "The full painting is at http://www.sappho.com/lart/ingres.htm , and if you click on the image, you get this detailed view of part of it."}, {"response": 20, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (22:27)", "body": "i think it depicts the closeness of women. is this a bath or a harem?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (22:29)", "body": "i went to the site and it's definately a bath. i believe bath for them and bath for us is two different things. isn't a bath a place to relax, kinda like a spa?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (01:22)", "body": "Yes, exactly. I love the way they're gossiping away, probably complaining and laughing about husbands and children. It's as if someone was peeping through a little hole in the floor, and saw them when they were in an utterly natural state of being. It's great."}, {"response": 23, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:32)", "body": "I wonder what our society would be like if we were that uninhibited today?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (11:46)", "body": "In Germany they are taking great pains to become that uninhibited again. There is a big trend to do things naked - sports, shopping, socializing, eating out. But it's too forced, and there's nothing innocent about it - it just looks totally silly. Especially on people who do parachuting... I think we know to much - therefore we will never be uninihibited again."}, {"response": 25, "author": "patas", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (17:48)", "body": "Apparently Muslim women, who in some countries are still secluded and protected from male eyes, feel alright taking their bath together naked - just the women and children though."}, {"response": 26, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (18:34)", "body": "Ah, a modern-day example! I guess the Western world has gone too far in other directions."}, {"response": 27, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (21:50)", "body": "well nowadays if you bathe with other women you're either lesbian, participating in a team sport, or a jail resident!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:16)", "body": "ha-ha!!!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (09:38)", "body": "Or, at one of Jim O'Briens potlucks taking a sauna."}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (13:09)", "body": "ha-ha!!! Here in Switzerland they have only mixed saunas, so I never go. I could never sit there naked, sweating my ar$e off with a bunch of guys."}, {"response": 31, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (18:21)", "body": "well to me a lot of women that would go to saunas over here are all stuck up and superficial. i would feel like my flabby self was being judged."}, {"response": 32, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (14:15)", "body": "Only ever been in the hotel ones, with my family."}, {"response": 33, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (19:21)", "body": "i just flat out don't go in the saunas or jacuzzi's -- even the one in the gym!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:12)", "body": "Wolf, I NEVER used to wear a bikini, even before I became a mother, because I have one of those made-and-left bodies. Beautifully made, just not arranged properly. Twice in my life, I've had a guy and two midwives stare so deep up my backside they could probably see out my nostrils at the other end, and they didn't scream nearly as loud as I did. And so I figure: I don't care about what people think of the way I speak - why the he\ufffd\ufffd should I care anymore about the way I look to them? I'm married, I don't have to catch some guy, I don't have to show off, because some of those pretty pretty gals around me will sleep alone tonight, fancy legs or not. And me, badly arranged as I am - I'll have someone to sleep AND bump pelvisses with tonight. So I just refuse to be self-conscious."}, {"response": 35, "author": "patas", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (04:22)", "body": "God, Autumn, do you think that being aware of one's body and trying to get it into better shape is only a single person's concern? Putting aside all the exaggerations of our century, I believe one tries to look good for oneself primarily, but one's partner's good opinion is also to be desired."}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (06:55)", "body": "Speaking of which: here's something by an artist who didn't mind HOW badly he arranged female body parts on paper or canvas... This drawing is supposedly an unknown masterpiece by Picasso."}, {"response": 37, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (11:20)", "body": "i wear a bikini in my backyard! and i, too, know the feeling of being examined like a holstein cow in the throes of terrible calving labor. my husband doesn't care about the road map stretchmarks i've acquired as a result of birthing two big babies. he just wants me to be happy with my body and to feel good about myself. so to all of us not-so-perfect gals, *hugs* who'd want a cookie cutter model off of vogue anyway? (ok, besides wer).....i go to the gym for myself but am not comfortable in any speedo type apparatus (who wants to keep pulling the thong outta their arse anyway)!!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (15:17)", "body": "\ufffdcurling up with laughter!!!!\ufffd I've never seen the inside of a gym, so I can only imagine what this piece of apparatus must look like!! That's so unbearable funny!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (22:04)", "body": "Gi: God, Autumn, do you think that being aware of one's body and trying to get it into better shape is only a single person's concern? Me: What in the heck are you talking about???"}, {"response": 40, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (01:48)", "body": "The weather?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (23:13)", "body": "and what's that you were saying, Wolf?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (15:19)", "body": "Holy $hit, how the hell did I manage that, Terry?!?!?!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (16:51)", "body": "You can tell Vulcan is getting off by this impromptu visitor. Smooching her tit and all!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (18:16)", "body": "well, she is touching his, anyway. i like this one...."}, {"response": 46, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (00:49)", "body": "Smooching her tit?!?! You've got me hysterical at 7:49 in the morning - you sure know the language of art!! HA-HAAAAAAA!!!! $hit, now I can't stop!!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (17:06)", "body": "Ah yes, the language of art just comes naturally when you're edgy and cool."}, {"response": 48, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (01:34)", "body": "OOH, Terry, you're just turning into such a stud nowadays!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:53)", "body": "I think he's just looking up at her and her breast is juxtaposed behind his face."}, {"response": 50, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (16:39)", "body": "OK spoil our fun."}, {"response": 51, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (01:21)", "body": "Poor Terry - so much for your tit smooching theory."}, {"response": 52, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (12:50)", "body": "BUT to cheer you up: Fr\ufffdd\ufffdric Bazille 'La Toilette' 1870"}, {"response": 53, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (12:50)", "body": "ha-ha!!!! That didn't exactly work, did it??!?! I'll try again!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (12:53)", "body": "Fr\ufffdd\ufffdric Bazille 'La Toilette' 1870"}, {"response": 55, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (12:55)", "body": "Damn - sorry. Fr\ufffdd\ufffdric Bazille 'La Toilette' 1870"}, {"response": 56, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:42)", "body": "Can you even imagine someone dressing you every day? My kids won't even let me put their shoes on them."}, {"response": 57, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:09)", "body": "I would LOVE to be dressed by somebody else every day! I hate getting dressed!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (09:45)", "body": "i like the idea, but the actuality? can you imagine? i guess i'm to shy to let someone else dress me (and too independent)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (02:17)", "body": "True. I could make my sister dress me though! I'll put some cellotape over her gob so she won't make silly remarks!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (12:10)", "body": "i suppose i could get my husband to dress me but i don't think i'd ever get anything on!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (14:26)", "body": "ha-ha! Quite! art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 24, "subject": "THE BONFIRE", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (22:16)", "body": "What an intriguing idea! Please toss in Andy Warhol's soup cans (though we really should recycle them)."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (10:57)", "body": "I'll try and find his soup cans, Autumn. And how about this one too: Reginald Marsh (1898-1954) 'Olga, the headless girl' 1944"}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (11:05)", "body": "Couldn't find the soup cans, Autumn, but how's this for pointless?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (20:41)", "body": "What do folks think of the works of Jackson Pollack? Massive hoax? Or great abstract art?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (21:19)", "body": "Post one and I'll let you know! (Poor Olga, she's a great argument for euthanasia!)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (22:25)", "body": ""}, {"response": 7, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (23:16)", "body": "Oh yeah, they have a lot of his stuff in the East Wing of the National Gallery. I don't care for it, myself. How about you?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (06:43)", "body": "I think it's a joke. Anyone can scribble a canvas so full of black lines that it starts to look like something complicated. So . . . THERE YOU GO, JACKSON BULLOCKS!! BURN!!! art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 26, "subject": "Stained Glass", "response_count": 23, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (17:50)", "body": "me too. (adore stained glass windows)....love cathedrals for all the architecture...."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (03:43)", "body": "I'll try and find some of the photos I have here on the web, and post them - hopefully with a bit more success than hitherto."}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (12:55)", "body": "Unfortunately examples are pretty few and far between on the web so far, but here is one to start us off: Unfortunately it came with no information whatsoever, and I can't possibly make a guess at the artist, as I'm better aquainted with medieval glass paintings. It looks pretty modern though, and I like its simplicity, and bright colours."}, {"response": 4, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:58)", "body": "it's beautiful...i think the glasswork i like the best is when they lead out designs on the glass and the pieces inbetween are prysmatic (know what i mean)?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (18:25)", "body": "This must've come from an Amish church--no one has a face!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (01:41)", "body": "ha-ha!!!!! I know what you mean, Wolf. I always say, if ever I should be so priveleged to live in a country where one can afford to buy a house, I shall have someone teach me how to make these windows, and make them in a shed in the backyard where the kids can't get themselves killed with interest in my art!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (06:49)", "body": "Eton college chapel has some of the most beautiful windows I have ever seen. Photos don't really capture their brilliance, but I have visited the chapel once, and was stunned. So, in the next few responses, I'll post some of the windows. Temptation of Eve"}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (07:42)", "body": "And also from this cathedral: Queen of Sheba"}, {"response": 9, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (14:19)", "body": "Pretty, pretty!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (19:23)", "body": "nothing does them justice like the sun shining through!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:14)", "body": "I know - I've been terribly dissappointed with every picture so far; they are so stunning in real life. Plus there are VERY few of them on the web. But I've got some very good photos here at home, and will post them to Wer at some point when the web runs out."}, {"response": 12, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (13:28)", "body": "Hi y'all, I'm disappointed - I can't get any of your pictures to show. Any ideas?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (18:49)", "body": "Maggie, stop using MS Explorer and download Netscape Navigator 4.0. It's free and worth every penny!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct  6, 1999 (12:48)", "body": "Oh no, Maggie! I'm afraid I am the clumsiest person alive when it comes to using computers. I hope you know how to carry out Marcia's advice."}, {"response": 15, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (18:16)", "body": "I shall post the URL for the download as soon as I get back to Windows. (telnetting, dontcha know!)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (18:24)", "body": "You can download Lview Pro for W3.1 free (do not opt for the pay W95 version - it is inferior) at http://www.lview.com/down2.0.htm"}, {"response": 17, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (18:27)", "body": "Alas, Maggie - no one can see her images anymore. Cambridge must have changed them. That is why conference hosts have room on the Spring's hard drive to store their images. Ree - send me some more and I will post them for you!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (18:36)", "body": "I know nothing about this stained glass except that it is just that!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (18:39)", "body": "As for me, the first thing i visit in a new town in Europe is its Cathedral. I love everything about them...and most especially the stained glass...some so old that the glass is thicker at the bottom than at the top because of its flowing downward due to its being a liquid!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Oct 12, 1999 (16:44)", "body": "I got the last picture in glorious technicolour! I have to admit I love old stained glass better than new ones. We have some famous new panels in my church and I hate them!!! ( It's a VERY old church - goes back to 1100). I heard some photographer was going to take some pictures of them recently so if we (the church) get to see them I'll try and post a picture for you to see. I think there's a difference in techniques, it's not just the designs. We have some victorian panels too and they are delicate, almost etched. The 'stained glass' in those are pa els of coloured glass surrounded by leading. The new panels look more to me like 'painted glass', the colour is uneven and the features are crude. I guess that might have been part of the design but it doesn't do anything for me. I paint on acetate panels with glass paints. The effect I try to aim for is not to imitate real stained glass but to obtain a good clear even colour. I usually make greetings cards. unfortunately (or fortunatley!) I've sold all the ones I had made earlier, so i don't have any to show you just now. I tried to copy some stained glass patterns but they don't transfer too well to the miniature size I paint (6\" x 4\" cards). The contour paste leading I use comes out too thick in relation to the design."}, {"response": 21, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct 12, 1999 (17:32)", "body": "I know the problem of that squeeze-bottle \"leading\"...there must be a way to make a finer tip through which to extrude the \"leading\" so we could do finer detail. I'm working on it...will let you know if I succeed! The tiniest windows I attempted were for a cermamic church (mantlepiece sized)...I ended up with abstract art! But, from a distance, it looks just fine! (put the color on first and made \"leading\" with permanent fint-tip black marker...)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Oct 12, 1999 (20:46)", "body": "have you tried a thin short paintbrush tip? more time consuming, but you'd be able to get a thinner line. if you make any more, maggie, you can email pics to me and i'll be happy to post them for you!! i love stained glass but am afraid to try it on my \"real\" property. if i screw it up, it would be too expensive to fix!! so i've thought about buying pieces and hanging them (you know, window size panels), but they're too expensive! and my biggest fear is that the AM would be angry! (AM=alpha male)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Oct 12, 1999 (20:48)", "body": "if you can find a short-tipped brush, you can always purchase a thin one and then cut the tip down (do a little at a time until you achieve what you want). let me know if it works, i've done this for some of my artwork when i needed more control and a very fine line. but you might ask ree-head, she's THE ARTIST! art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 27, "subject": "Guess who painted this picture?", "response_count": 39, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (22:32)", "body": "OK, here's the first one. And even I don't know the answer!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (23:18)", "body": "Good one, Terry! I'll guess Dali, because he was so fixated on time/clocks, although she's got a real Botticellian thing going there, as well."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (07:11)", "body": "The correct answer is Tamara White. See http://hera.eecs.berkeley.edu/~tamiw/"}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (07:14)", "body": "I was almost certain it was a Dali too, but the colours made me doubt - they were not quite him. Thanks, Terry!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (13:24)", "body": "Can you guess who painted this gorgeous painting? And the clues are: HE's a post-impressionist (early 1900's) Was known to his friends as the 'Japanese Nabi'."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (13:39)", "body": "Bonnard?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:59)", "body": "??"}, {"response": 8, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (18:27)", "body": "Make it multiple-choice, Riette."}, {"response": 9, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (18:28)", "body": "indeed, then at least we'd have a chance *grin*"}, {"response": 10, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (22:47)", "body": "I wouldn't..."}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (01:43)", "body": "Okay, multiple choice. Is it Bonnard, is it Bonnard or is it Bonnard?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (09:09)", "body": "oh, oh, oh, i know, pick me....da vinci?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (09:40)", "body": "You're wrong!!! Congratulations!!! You win an underwater hairdryer!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (12:01)", "body": "just what i need!!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:34)", "body": "I was going to say Bonnard, except I never heard of him."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Renata", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (12:56)", "body": "Segantini? He was heavy on symbolism .... Ok, I think I'm wrong, but I thought I might as well try as not :-). Love the \"Guess who painted...\" game ;-D"}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (15:32)", "body": "ha-ha!!! Now, guess who didn't paint this one:"}, {"response": 18, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (16:32)", "body": "I don't remember doing it..."}, {"response": 19, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (18:35)", "body": "Roy Liechtenstein."}, {"response": 20, "author": "patas", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (18:56)", "body": "Paul Gauguin. Next!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (21:52)", "body": "wasn't me!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:17)", "body": "Wrong, Gi, Paul Gauguin DID paint it! ha-ha!!! \ufffdsmacking your bum!!\ufffd"}, {"response": 23, "author": "patas", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (11:50)", "body": "Sorry, was I not supposed to guess then?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (13:11)", "body": "Of course you were, but I get a little bit warped at times, and so his time I asked: who DIDN'T paint the picture?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (13:13)", "body": "Do you ever get to Switzerland, Gi? If you do, look me up - we could paint together one afternoon!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "patas", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (04:02)", "body": "Hey, that sounds great! I love Switzerland - I learned my French at a summer school near Geneva, and once visited Zurich for a few hours between flights and have always wanted to go back, so maybe now I will. :-) One afternoon, however, may not be enough, I warn you..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (06:57)", "body": "I'm always game for more!!! If you're willing to put up with the messiest workroom you've ever seen!!!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (01:46)", "body": "Now, who DID paint this one?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (14:58)", "body": "Now, how was I supposed to resist THIS one??! Oh, GLAD, GLAD DAY!! So, who is it by, people?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (17:07)", "body": "That's obviously William Blake. Unmistakable. There's a man full of joy and exuberance."}, {"response": 31, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (18:18)", "body": "he has no insecurities."}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (00:50)", "body": "Yep!! Horrible little painting though, isn't it?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (12:55)", "body": "maybe if i understood why this guy was standing stark naked in the middle of something that looks like hell or a cave...."}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (17:07)", "body": "Cause his clothes hadn't come out of the dryer yet?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (19:29)", "body": "ok, i'll buy that....."}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (01:35)", "body": "If I were that humbly endowed, I'd at least wrap myself in a towel."}, {"response": 37, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (14:54)", "body": "yes, but his towels are in the wash (or he left them all on the bathroom floor)."}, {"response": 38, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:54)", "body": "He is definitely in touch with his inner self."}, {"response": 39, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (01:22)", "body": "ha-ha!!! art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 28, "subject": "Vincent van Gogh", "response_count": 30, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (14:10)", "body": "I'll start with one I've never seen before: Vincent van Gogh 'Village Street and Stairs with Figures' 1890 50cm x 70cm"}, {"response": 2, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (19:11)", "body": "never seen this one either..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (19:31)", "body": "Wow, this is a wide one! Great, sweeping brushstrokes and lots of colors."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (02:46)", "body": "The ideas of his paintings are so simple, nothing really deep or profound in them - but their profoundness lie in the way they were executed. That is what makes him so great."}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (07:57)", "body": "Now, look at this one for simplicity that strikes! Vincent van Gogh 'Noon: Rest from Work (after Millet)' 1889-90 Isn't it wonderful? Millet may have influenced him, but he sure as hell did not surpass Van Gogh in skill and sheer genius."}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (16:40)", "body": "Now, how about a portrait to continue with? Here's one of my favourite paintings by him. Vincent van Gogh 'Woman Rocking a Cradle' 1889 I find the black lines and bright colours stunning."}, {"response": 7, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (19:36)", "body": "Great wallpaper!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (22:54)", "body": "hmmmm, i don't care for this one too much...."}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (03:19)", "body": "That's your good right, Wolfie! Darn, I haven't opened your Monet topic yet, have I? I'll go do that straight away - forgive me."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (02:35)", "body": "Vincent van Gogh 'Starry Night over the Rhone' 1888 72.5cm x 92cm There is something so magical in the way he interpreted the things he painted. Imagine living in an imperfect world with such a magical vision - I'd go crazy too, I think."}, {"response": 11, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (23:06)", "body": "WOW! (awestruck)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (23:14)", "body": "this is nice. while it was loading, the stars took on the idea of fireflies, something i love to see in the summer....."}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (15:45)", "body": "This next one I've also not seen before. Vincent van Gogh 'The White House at Night' 1890 59cm x 72.5cm I was really surprised how 'bad' this painting is - especially as the moon- and starlight dissolving into the darkness of night are motives he had used before, eg. in the previous painting I posted, and very successfully. In this one it come out rather 'badly' though, I find. (Damn, I hate using the word 'bad' in connection with a Van Gogh!!) Not at all an accomplished painting."}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (18:09)", "body": "I like it. Not the best Van Gogh ever. But powerful. How does he acheive these effects? What kind of brush did he use?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (01:55)", "body": "Probably something like pig's hair - pretty stiff brushes, but with a whole clog of paint on it, you can easily achieve the sort of lines he uses. You have to paint simple, but pretty thick background colours to start off with though, I should think. To achieve the layered look and texture."}, {"response": 16, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (16:56)", "body": "Oh, I rather like it! That's how the sky looks here on a humid, sultry day."}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (02:23)", "body": "Yeah? Cool!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  1, 1998 (05:18)", "body": "Here is something especially for you, Wolf. Hope it will inspire you! Vincent van Gogh 'Flowerbeds in Holland' 1883 50cm x 66cm I find his landscapes just stunning - better than his portraits."}, {"response": 19, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (23:44)", "body": "My next house is definitely going to have a thatched roof. I mean, they are just so damn charming."}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (02:24)", "body": "ha-ha!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (02:17)", "body": "Vincent van Gogh 'Red Vineyard' 1888 75cm x 93cm I adore this one."}, {"response": 22, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (22:09)", "body": "It's so vibrant, and a refreshing change of topic for this era. (After a while I get tired of pretty ladies and flowers!)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (00:23)", "body": "(um, can I have your leftovers, Autumn?)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (01:53)", "body": "ha-ha! I know what you mean, Autumn. I think landscapes were van Gogh's strong point. I like all of them - his portraits I'm not so sure about."}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 15, 1998 (05:13)", "body": "Vincent van Gogh 'Trees in the Asylum Garden' 1889 Imagine sitting in an asylum, and still see the world through eyes like these."}, {"response": 26, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (23:13)", "body": "It's so fluid and colorful--it reminds me of a peacock! Utterly incredible"}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 17, 1998 (02:09)", "body": "Amazing to think that he never really won recognition for his work during his lifetime, and died poor."}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 2004 (08:34)", "body": "http://www.vangoghgallery.com/index.html elcome to The Vincent van Gogh Gallery. For nearly eight years now I've worked hard to ensure that this website remains the most thorough and comprehensive Van Gogh resource on the World Wide Web. To the right is a table detailing the contents of the entire site. I'm proud to say that I have the privilege of displaying 100% of Vincent van Gogh's works and letters--a complete, online catalogue raisonn\ufffd of Van Gogh's oeuvre. As you explore these pages, you'll see the culmination of thousands of hours of work. But that's just the beginning . . . ."}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 2004 (08:35)", "body": "In the months to come I'll be adding more criticism and analysis, historical commentary as well as a vastly expanded web of cross-referential hyperlinks. This will allow the visitor an easy means of exploring the rich tapestry of Vincent van Gogh's life and art. The more work I put into The Vincent van Gogh Gallery, the more I realize that there is still so much left to do. In any event, I do sincerely hope that you enjoy your visit in a journey for insights and information about one of the most brilliant artists the world has ever known. http://www.vangoghgallery.com/index.html"}, {"response": 30, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Nov 18, 2004 (20:34)", "body": "oh goodie! art gallery Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 29, "subject": "The Bonfire II", "response_count": 19, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (08:00)", "body": "What happened? What problem?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (09:42)", "body": "I loaded an image there, which looked fine in inference.com. But once it got here, it just never managed to load, even though it didn't show the little 'x' sign either. Which in turn meant that the response box couldn't appear, because the computer was loading nothing the whole time, with nothing happening. Obviously not getting quite as good with this as I thought...."}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:36)", "body": "I say we burn the first version as well, even though I've never seen it. It's just a feeling."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (11:50)", "body": "Oh, it's pretty much as ugly as the other."}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (01:25)", "body": "Alexander Exeter (1882-1949) 'Still Life' STILL LIFE? I don't think so!!!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (22:07)", "body": "Burn, baby, burn!!!!!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (01:49)", "body": "Makes me feel SOOOO good about myself when I do this!!! ha-ha!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (23:17)", "body": "this one looks unpretty"}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (01:20)", "body": "WE ALL THOROUGHLY AGREE WITH YOU, ZOE! Amazing how there are artists who never figure art out."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (07:58)", "body": "The Museum of Bad Art: http://www.glyphs.com/moba/"}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (08:22)", "body": "ha-ha!!!! One can always count on you!!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (14:32)", "body": "And, straight from the museum of bad Art (thank you, Terry!!), here is an astonishingly bad one! Isn't it just adorably ugly? It seems almost a shame to burn it!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (14:33)", "body": "And, straight from the museum of bad Art (thank you, Terry!!), here is an astonishingly bad one! Unknown artist 'Lucy in the field with Flowers' Isn't it just adorably ugly? It seems almost a shame to burn it!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (17:11)", "body": "yeah, just smoke that one up a bit. What a concept, the museum of bad art!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (18:22)", "body": "now the concept is good, but that's about it...."}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (00:57)", "body": "Yeah! Hilarious site though - I was laughing my HEAD off last night. There's one of an 'athlete' that I must post in here too. A shortish, fattish male subject matter, holding a disc, and posing like a Roman athlete. It was SO funny!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:57)", "body": "I'd like to see the above artist's rendition of Lucy in the sky with diamonds!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (01:24)", "body": "I know! Hope none of the Beatles tune in here - they'd be mighty offended!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (15:13)", "body": "Zachary Astruc Just for you, Wer - hope it keeps ya warm!! \ufffdkiss\ufffd art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 3, "subject": "Harrison Fisher", "response_count": 46, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "eustacia", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (20:43)", "body": "Terry -- Kathy is still having trouble. She says that there is no place for her to respond. I know that she already emailed you once. What could she be doing wrong? I hope that we can work this out. I am still waiting for all the other Fisher Fanatics to get here."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (20:46)", "body": "What is Kathy trying exactly? Can you describe what's going on?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "eustacia", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "I am afraid that my email doesn't always reach her. But she emailed me saying that she doesn' have a place to respond. I am not sure what that means. Then she said that she re-registerd an got an error message. I am not even sure if she has gotten to the point of where this message is at now. Kathy if you can read this email me and I will leave a response here. I will also try to email you with step by step instructions. Thanks Terry for trying to help. My idea of a Fisher Talk Room doesn't seem t be working."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (23:02)", "body": "Don't give up. Keep pumping it up. Can you think of some more art related topics?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (07:45)", "body": "From my mailbag: Message 2/550 From RONDALD CLARK Aug 8, 98 10:00:48 pm -0700 Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 22:00:48 -0700 Reply-To: ronc2@freewwweb.com Organization: CLARK ELECTRIC To: terry@www.spring.net Subject: Harrison Fisher Prints Terry: Well, here I am another HF admirer. I just love everyone that I see and wish that I could have one of each too. Today, well I found the Best Gift so now it's time to do some research. Printed by Schribner (spelling may not be correct). The frame is put together with nails to hold the illustration in the frame. The picture was in a consignment shop since November 97. And, I am ashamed that I've been in there not once, twice, but three times and she was waiting for me in a back room on the floor stack up on its edge with about 8 other prints. Do you know anything about The Best Gift, 1909. Thanks, Rosemary Can anyone help Rosemary? (ie. the folks who requested I start this topic?)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (08:22)", "body": "I am ashamed to admit that I don't even know who this artist is. I can find him in none of my dicionaries, and know NONE of his works. I will do some research in the library as soon as I have a bit more time. Was he an American artist? In which case I will feel slightly less embarrassed, because my field is more European artists, as well as a certain amount of African. Do you have any information on this guy, Terry?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (23:08)", "body": "I found this and several other pictures at http://www.tias.com/stores/aesthetic/hf-1.html And on http://members.spree.com/keithjo/harrisonfisher.html I found a little biographic material: \"The Father of A Thousand Girls\", HARRISON FISHER (1875-1934) showed an early interest in drawing and from the age of six was instructed by his father, Hugh Antoine Fisher, a landscape painter. When his family moved from Brooklyn to San Francisco, Harrison studied there at the Mark Hopkins Institute of Art. At sixteen, Fisher had begun to make drawings for the San Francisco Call and later for the Examiner. Soon after returning to New York, Fisher sold two sketches to Puck Magazine which also hired him as a staff artist. He became noted for his ability to draw beautiful women, and his Fisher Girls became rivals to those of Gibson and Christy. The American Girl was a favorite theme for the magazine then, and Fisher did cover illustrations for most of them. For many years he was under an exclusive contract to do covers for Cosmopolitan, but eventually he restricted himself to painting portraits including many actresses and theatrical personalities. - Walt Reed"}, {"response": 8, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (23:15)", "body": "I learned something today! Thanks for the background, Terry."}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (01:00)", "body": "Yes, thank you! Thank God he was American - I was so embarrassed about not knowing who he was! Thank you for the pictures as well. Very pretty pretty pretty, but gorgeous! And I did not know that baywatch girls already existed back then. 'Cos, these were defenitely baywatch girls!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (11:24)", "body": "He seems to be very prolific in his production of beauteaous babes for magazine covers, etc."}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (13:34)", "body": "Yep - defenitely had a keen eye there! Oh, Terry, I've not pestered you for art for a long time, have I? So here's the deal: you send me art, I send you nothing. Okay?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (13:58)", "body": "Wait a minute, that's unfair, I'm in too much pain right now from a grueling dental visit this morning. Make a better offer!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (16:05)", "body": "My gut reaction is to offer a kiss, but you're probably not going to feel it on your teeth or with a numb mouth. Let me think . . . Ah, I've got it! You send me art, I send you underpants with swiss cows on...."}, {"response": 14, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (08:12)", "body": "I think he'd rather have the Swiss cows with underpants on..."}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (10:27)", "body": "Another one of his strange fetishes? See, I told you I found Terry a little scary, and now I know my instinct was right all along!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (21:31)", "body": "fisher's samples look like old coke advertisements, were they?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (23:37)", "body": "Numb no more."}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (00:42)", "body": "\ufffdBIG SMILE\ufffd Yes, Wolf, that's the one - and I only found out who he is a few days ago; my knowledge of American art equals my knowledge of nunhood."}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (10:34)", "body": "And here's another little gem by the artist to whom this topic is devoted to. And it is called: AUTUMN'S BEAUTY!!!! So, eat your hearts out, guys:"}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (20:37)", "body": "So, what, in your opinion, art goddess, what role do you think Harrison Fisher has in the history of modern art?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (00:51)", "body": "Holy mare, what a question to ask someone who hasn't had breakfeast yet. But the answer that pops up is a commercial one mainly. Based on the little knowledge I have now aquired (through you!) I think this must have been one of the first big-time commercial artists. And the word 'commercial' suggests to me 'for everyone'. And that is a very important role to play as an artist, I think. His art was obviously for everyone, there was no symbolism, no 'deeper' meaning in his pictures, which only artists and highly educated people could understand and appreciate. He painted be utiful women - and who can't appreciate that? He brought art down to the middle- and working classes. That's admirable, I think."}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (03:59)", "body": "Here's another one of his pretty girls: Harrison Fisher 'A Forest Flower'"}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (15:46)", "body": "And another totally sweet one. Harrison Fisher 'A Prairie Belle'"}, {"response": 24, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (16:26)", "body": "this one's my fave so far"}, {"response": 25, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (21:36)", "body": "he like(d)(s) to paint women's faces, huh?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (01:59)", "body": "I like this one best too, muffin. I think the guy was totally smitten with our species, Wolf. Nice of him."}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (08:38)", "body": "'By right of conquest'"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (07:01)", "body": "And here's one for any wistful insomniac... 'Caught Napping'"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (21:07)", "body": "Nice picture. Very soft."}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (00:43)", "body": "It is - his work is very pretty pretty, but I like it more all the time."}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (10:06)", "body": "We should email those Fisher groupies and tell them we're having a party in their topic! After all, they asked for the topic."}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (12:12)", "body": "Great idea! What are their addresses?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (16:43)", "body": "Are they in the beginning of this topic if you scroll up or view all the responses and click on their names?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (01:30)", "body": "Oh yes, those! Sorry, I'm so chaos minded. I'll go look, and send them some mails."}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (07:35)", "body": "Gosh, you're a chaos theoretician too, multi-talented!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (09:01)", "body": "And since when would that be?!?!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (09:33)", "body": "Uh oh (backpedals) easy there, easy!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (01:07)", "body": "Booh! \ufffdBIG KISS\ufffd"}, {"response": 39, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (05:45)", "body": "'Beauty and Value' I'm not THAT crazy about this one, but hey, all artists have their off days."}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (20:54)", "body": "Topic 3 of 34 [art]: Harrison Fisher Response 1 of 39: Susan (eustacia) * Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (20:43) * 2 lines Terry -- Kathy is still having trouble. She says that there is no place for her to respond. I know that she already emailed you once. What could she be doing wrong? I hope that we can work this out. I am still waiting for all the other Fisher Fanatics to get here. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 3 of 34 [art]: Harrison Fisher Response 2 of 39: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (20:46) * 1 lines What is Kathy trying exactly? Can you describe what's going on? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 3 of 34 [art]: Harrison Fisher Response 3 of 39: Susan (eustacia) * Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (21:02) * 2 lines I am afraid that my email doesn't always reach her. But she emailed me saying that she doesn' have a place to respond. I am not sure what that means. Then she said that she re-registerd an got an error message. I am not even sure if she has gotten to the point of where this message is at now. Kathy if you can read this email me and I will leave a response here. I will also try to email you with step by step instructions. Thanks Terry for trying to help. My idea of a Fisher Talk Room doesn't seem t be working. We need to tell Kathy and Susan and the rest of the Fisherettes that it's working!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (00:40)", "body": "I've e-mailed Susan, and got no reply - that was abou three weeks ago already."}, {"response": 42, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (17:04)", "body": "What about Kathy?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (01:28)", "body": "I figured Susan would be the one to mail since her friend was having trouble with her e-mail. I'll try her though. Just hope her e-mail address is still the same. You don't have their home addresses, do you? Because then I could send them each and official invitation, which might induce them to come here. Oh, I've just thought of something else: back when they used to come, the address will have been Spring.com, not Spring.net - perhaps they've tried to come back, but can't, 'cos they don't know about the change. I'll remember to send them the URL the next time. And in the meantime: 'Good Little Indian' Lovely, isn't it?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  1, 1998 (03:56)", "body": "'Music Hath Charms'"}, {"response": 45, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (06:35)", "body": "'Can't you Speak?'"}, {"response": 46, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 15, 1998 (03:50)", "body": "'On Summer Seas' art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 30, "subject": "Claude Monet (1840-1926)", "response_count": 50, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:26)", "body": "Let's start with an early one: Claude Monet 'The Beach at Saint-Addresse' 1867"}, {"response": 2, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (14:23)", "body": "I've never seen that one before. Does it pre-date the Rouen Cathedral and the haystacks?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:16)", "body": "Yes, Autumn, this one was painted about 20 years earlier. But I find it fresh and lovely."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:25)", "body": "Here's another early one: Claude Monet 'Garden at Sainte-Addresse' 1867 98cm x 130cm"}, {"response": 5, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (22:09)", "body": "This one always makes it into the calendar (for a good reason)."}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (14:24)", "body": "Another early one, and one of my favourite Monet paintings: Claude Monet 'Madame Gaudibert' 1868"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (17:13)", "body": "This is *not* on my list of favorite Monets. It looks out of focus, like a snapshot that was on the list not to print. No offense, Riette, it just doesn't light me up."}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (00:58)", "body": "It's just a bad photograph!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (17:07)", "body": "Must be, out of focus. Doesn't do the original justice. Did you hear Mona Lisa's getting her own room at the Louvre and they aren't going to clean her up?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (01:41)", "body": "Oh, we just have different tastes, Terry - that doesn't bother me one bit. NO!! They're not going to clean her up?? That may be wise. I once saw a programme on TV where an expert art renovator said that, no matter how experienced the people who do it, there is always a change that the piece will be renovated beyond repair, so to speak. Meaning, you touch it, and the whole thing just starts to peel, and literally has to be pieced back together again - perhaps it's best if they just leave her to decay slowly, but naturally. There's something not quite right about the idea of famous painting in bits on the floor, then being pasted back onto the original canvas/panel , and painted anew - a bit like a woman having plastic surgery to avoid, well, also decay. It looks pretty afterwards - too pretty to be real. You know it can't be the real thing - and you lose apppreciation."}, {"response": 11, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (14:56)", "body": "i think they should leave her as she is..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:32)", "body": "The yellow overcast is going to stay. They theorize this is the way it was orginally, a rich yellowish color as oppossed to a fleshy look."}, {"response": 13, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (16:05)", "body": "This really shows what a master he is at texture. You can see every crinkle in that taffeta gown."}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (05:46)", "body": "That's what I find great about it too, Autumn. Terry, see if you like this one better: Claude Monet 'Magpie' 1868-69"}, {"response": 15, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:47)", "body": "Not too many wintry scenes attributed to Monet! The magpie itself is almost an afterthought. The perfect winter morning."}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:10)", "body": "Very pretty, isn't it?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (09:46)", "body": "i like the whole picture with the little bird just sitting there. it adds a charming touch, don't you think?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (02:18)", "body": "Yes, it does. Despite its theme I find it a very warm sort of picture."}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (06:49)", "body": "Here's something a little different. Claude Monet 'Fishing Boats leaving the Harbour' 1874 60cm x 101cm"}, {"response": 20, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (21:12)", "body": "I wonder where that one was painted--do you know, Riette? One of the ports on the Normandy coast?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (00:54)", "body": "It was painted at Le Havre, Autumn."}, {"response": 22, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Sep 13, 1998 (21:08)", "body": "(*smugly*) I knew it! We took a ferry there from Portsmouth once. Le Havre's former name was Le Havre-de-Grace, but was shortened in the 1800s (?) My town is Havre de Grace, named by the Marquis de Lafayette during the Revolutionary War who fought here, because it reminded him of the other. Fascinating, I'm sure. :-)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (00:50)", "body": "Oh, my Lord!!! \ufffdfalling down on me knees in prayer!\ufffd And is it as stunning as on the picture?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 15, 1998 (04:18)", "body": "Claude Monet 'La Promenade' 1875"}, {"response": 25, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep 15, 1998 (19:20)", "body": "i like this and looking up at her so the sky is nearly panoramic, very nice..."}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (00:54)", "body": "It's beautiful. One sees it quite alot, but I never tire of it."}, {"response": 27, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (22:15)", "body": "Come and see for yourself, Riette...when is your trip to Boston? :-) I have notecards or a calendar or something with this one, destined to be a classic forever."}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 17, 1998 (00:15)", "body": "To Boston and to Austin!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 17, 1998 (01:14)", "body": "Only to Austin, I'm afraid. My sister is going home soon, you see, and so we've decided that she would visit me for two weeks on her way there - more practical, you see. I'll try and get her to log-in while she's here; is there any way I can get her a different log-in name from me, even though we're going to be on the same computer, Terry? Only have Internet on this one. But Austin is still going to happen, as far as I know. Just let me know the date WELL in advance, because it will take me a month to get my visa. I'll ask Sonja to go look up the painting, though. What is the museum called, Autumn?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 17, 1998 (01:20)", "body": "Of course she can have her own account! Send me her details and I'll set her up with a shell account. (name, address, phone no., login name and password). No problem!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 17, 1998 (01:23)", "body": "Will do. Just want to ask her if that's alright by her."}, {"response": 32, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Sep 18, 1998 (17:03)", "body": "Um, what museum? (*bewildered*)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 21, 1998 (21:51)", "body": "I thought you said something about an art museum in Boston? Or did I get the wrong end of the stick?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep 22, 1998 (21:38)", "body": "there is an art museum here but i've never been. it's in the snobby section of town. we have something called the barnwell center which only artsy fartsy people go to all dressed up and stuff. there's a conservatory/atrium attached to it chock full of plants. love it. i went there in blue jeans and a t-shirt...they have group meetings there (like african violet society of america-which, btw, was the reason i was there), children's workshops, and art displays. it's all free to the public."}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (01:20)", "body": "Is that Boston you're talking about? You're in Boston?! You've probably passed my sister on the street a hundred times, and didn't even notice! She works in a hospital in Boston."}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (12:44)", "body": "Wow, maybe they'll meet for coffee! Wolf will get the \"inside\" scoop!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (21:00)", "body": "I think we are confused! I think Wolf is referring to her home town, New Orleans. I've never been to Boston, so it wasn't me who brought up the museum. Maybe someone will 'fess up in the Boston topic in Travel."}, {"response": 38, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 24, 1998 (01:23)", "body": "Oh. Oh well!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Sep 24, 1998 (10:09)", "body": "new orleans? have i alluded that as my hometown? no, much more north than that but definately not boston!!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Sep 25, 1998 (13:03)", "body": "Ha, ha, we're so f***ed up in here? Where the hell do you live, girl?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep 25, 1998 (13:06)", "body": "Shreveport/Bossier City"}, {"response": 42, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep 25, 1998 (13:06)", "body": "(didn't know she could throw her voice, didja?)"}, {"response": 43, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep 25, 1998 (13:12)", "body": "damn, thanks wer, you're good...ventriloquest is my other secret passion....."}, {"response": 44, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep 25, 1998 (13:12)", "body": "oh and spelling was not the other one!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (00:42)", "body": "Hey, didja see that? I think I saw a dirty word in Autumn's response! Didja see it, Wer?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (11:45)", "body": "*smile*"}, {"response": 47, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (12:05)", "body": "Here's another early work of the brilliant artist to whom this topic is devoted. Claude Monet 'R\ufffdgate \ufffd Argenteuil' 1872"}, {"response": 48, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (21:53)", "body": "what a beautiful day that must've been-the water being so calm as to really get a good look at the boats' reflections..."}, {"response": 49, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (22:10)", "body": "Love it!!! The crisp white sails, the blue skies, the red tile roofs..."}, {"response": 50, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 27, 1998 (03:44)", "body": "Yes, I find the colour beautifully harmonized and echoed in various places. And painting strong reflections is a clever way of doing water, I think. Often scenes with water without much reflection in them simply aren't convincing - but this is brilliant. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 31, "subject": "Inspiration", "response_count": 23, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (03:24)", "body": "By Nadia Labib, printed in Opulence: CRAP PO BOX 2071 Wilmington, NC 28402-2071 One Path... When I was a child, I created. While I colored and painted and played with clay like all other children, most of my creations ran around in my head. I was an only child, but never lonely. I would play for hours in tent cities I built in the living room, dining room and down the hall into my bedroom. Annabelle, my faithful, if a bit reluctant, kitty sidekick loved to hide in the corners of my domain. I would bring a flashlight and books into my tent, curl up with the cat, and transport myself into different worlds. I never had any trouble putting myself in the shoes of characters in by books. I dreamt fantastic dreams, remembered them when I awoke, and carried them with me into the day, never quite sure what was real and what came from my night imagination. But some where between four and fourteen, I lost my creativity. I became self-conscious and avoided the arts. After years of studying the recorder and flute, I couldn't manage to shed my fear of being seen and heard. In chorus, my mouth moved along with the music, but what came out was never more than a whisper. That was when I started cutting myself down. I laughed and said that I was so bad at drawing that my stick figures didn't even look right. I was embarassed by my parents' desire for me to perform for them. They were always supportive, loved everything I did without reserve, and encouraged me to try new things. Looking back now, it doesn't make sense that I developed disgust for my artistic efforts. Maybe it was because my best friend, Mary, was a brilliant artist and in my eyes my work never measured up to hers. Maybe it was tied into the drop in self-esteem that many girls go through in adolescence. Maybe the art I knew just didn't click for me anymore. Whatever the case was, it was gone. So I cast myself as an art lover. Someone who couldn't create but could appreciate what others did. I was my friends' biggest supporter. I listened to music, admired paintings, and poured over poems and short stories. I dated a musician more because he could write and perform music than because I cared for him. I was in awe of the artist. I learned how to run a sound board and to connect the cables for live shows. I carried amps and drum kits and microphone stands....just to be a part of it. Later on, I began doing publicity. I wrote press releases, called radio stations, delivered promo kits to freelance writers, set up shows. I took pride in the small role I played in helping these musicians get a little further along the road. Still, I was a helper, a facilitator. I smoothed the way for the artists. I was not one myself. Three years ago a bolt of lightening struck my subconscious. On a whim, I took a basic jewelry making class at a local store. Little did I know that \"Intro to Beading\" was going to open wide a door in my soul. All of a sudden, something just clicked in my head and my heart. I began expanding beyond the simple stuff taught in the class and I couldn't stop. I had to know more, try more. Some days I was enchanted by color, other days what mattered was shape and texture. I became a mad woman, buying beads, sneaking them into the house, gloating over them, packing them away in safe places. My stash is huge now. I have beads I bought two years ago because they were perfect...I wasn't sure WHAT they were perfect for, but I knew I'd figure it out. Just the other day I used some of my older beads. I was in a store, saw an amazing colored bead and instantly knew it would go perfectly with some I'd stashed years before. It was glorious, affirming. I was giddy. So now I'm a little bit creative and a little bit crazy. I think they go well together. My nuttiness allows me to step outside the confines of the 9-5 world. I can come home from the office and spread my beads all over the table and revel in them. True, some days it's frustrating when I'm missing the right bead for a design, but mostly it's pure joy."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (04:29)", "body": "That's just beautiful. Any way we can get her to come here, do you think? I really think we can all relate to that tale. I mean, why do we become self-conscious over our art when we grow up? Why are we so eager to please others and not ourselves? I did just the same thing, and wasted years, probably twelve or more YEARS on anger instead of creativity."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 15, 1998 (20:57)", "body": "mori phantasmagory by Tom Wolf Miko No Inori 1996 Miko No Inori 1996 Burning Desire 1996-98 from Nirvana Entropy of Love 1996 from Nirvana Mirror of Water 1996-98 from Nirvana Birth of a Star 1996 Nirvana 1996-97 Nirvana 1996-97 Mariko Mori, May 21 - Aug. 10, 1998, at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, Los Angeles, Ca. From all indications Mariko Mori looms on the horizon as a major international art star of the millennium. The Japanese-born artist, who has studios in Tokyo and New York and who is known for self-portrait photographs in chic, futuristic costumes, has recently had several museum shows -- at the Serpentine Gallery in London, at the Warhol Museum in Pittsburgh, at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art and currently at the Chicago Museum of Contemporary Art, where it's on view until Mar. 14, 1999. I caught the LACMA show this summer. The four-gallery survey opened with a video projection, Miko no Inori (1996), that took up a complete wall in a darkened room. The video shows the artist wearing metallic space alien garb and playing with a glass sphere the size of a baseball. The tape was shot in Osaka Airport, which gives it a dramatic sense of randomness. Tourists walk through the background while the artist ritualistically massages the glistening orb, traditional symbol of the universe. Mori wears mirrored contact lenses, which give her eyes a silver cast, like a visionary visitor from another planet. The show's remaining three galleries housed the Nirvana project, a work that combines religious imagery with high-tech computer imaging and up-to-the-minute fabrication techniques. In one gallery were three 10 x 20 ft. photographs. Each immense photograph took up an entire wall, and showed multiple images of the artist in a dramatic landscape setting. In Burning Desire (1996-98), for example, Mori is transformed into a four-armed Buddhist deity, sitting in the lotus position in China's Gobi Desert, encircled by a multicolored halo. She floats above four more images of herself seated amidst blazing flames. The photograph consists of five vertical panels beautifully displayed between two sheets of glass, which in turn are supported by metal runners cantilevered out from the wall at top and bottom -- unobtrusive, costly framing. The dramatic imagery and huge scale is effectively mystical. And Mori, the 31 year-old ex-professional model who attended art schools in Japan, London and New York, is an appealing subject. The third gallery devoted to Nirvana housed an extraordinary 3-D video installation. Viewers wore special glasses to watch the seven-minute video, which begins and ends with swirling, nebula-like forms suggestive of the creation of the cosmos. The central part of the video features Mori dressed as a bodhissatva, one of the disciples of the Buddha. She floats while singing in a high-pitched tone, gracefully using her hands to shape some of the symbolic mudras of traditional Buddhist art. For much of the tape she is surrounded by six cartoonish figures -- part alien, part Teletubby -- accompanying her with musical instruments. At the climax of the piece, 3-D musicians seem to fly out into our space and swirl around our heads while she levitates calmly behind them. Her eyes seem to stare sightlessly, like those of a statue of a Buddhist devotional figure come to life. The tape is a tour-de-force, rich in multiple references to Hollywood as well as Pacific Rim culture. The fourth and final room of the exhibition held a single sculpture, a five-foot wide lotus flower -- the traditional Buddhist symbol of purity -- made of delicately tinted, transparent plastic. The edge of each petal glowed a different color, as it was lit by fiberoptic light from a Himawari filter on the roof of the museum. The lighting system, according to the exhibition's catalogue, was invented by Mori's father. It required a thick black cord to descend from the roof to the lotus, which was visually dissonant to the glistening transparencies of the flower. Unfortunately, technology won out over esthetics. The piece also suffered a bit from Mori's absence -- but it was the exception in the remarkable exhibition. Using herself as the central figure in her work, Mori continues the performance-based photographic practice of Cindy Sherman and Yasumasa Morimura. But her appropriations of traditional imagery have a different tone than Sherman's sardonic caricatures of Old Masters or Morimura's tortured recreations of Renaissance crucifixions. There is a serene sweetness in Mori's work, which suggests that she genuinely wants to convey a spiritual message. But casting herself as the Buddha strikes a feminist note, and the gender-bending revision of traditional sacred imagery may not go over so well with the more conservative members of her audience in Japan. Interweaving performance art with the extravagances of the movie business -- lavish production values and a seemingly unlimited travel budget -- Mori's work is certainly a tec"}, {"response": 4, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Dec 15, 1998 (22:35)", "body": "too cool..."}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Dec 16, 1998 (00:32)", "body": "Wow!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jan  6, 2000 (19:57)", "body": "Where do I get mine? Usually from someone I love deeply or admire greatly or from something which affects me profoundly. Then it becomes too personal to put to paper so it dwells inside of me needing an outlet and not being able to find one..."}, {"response": 7, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Jan  6, 2000 (20:33)", "body": "it's exactly like standing naked in a public place with no where to hide. marcia you should post your artwork, i know i'd love to see it!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jan  6, 2000 (22:03)", "body": "My \"art\" is words or things I make (knit, crochet, invent,) out of whatever there is. I do have a picture of some incredibly clever bookmarks I invented that were scanned for me...I'll hunt for them!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jan  6, 2000 (22:09)", "body": "Oh, and yes, it is like standing naked in public and waiting for negative criticism but hoping desperately for a kind word. My only experience with having a character take over my head and write for me was a profoundly moving experience, and though what I (he) wrote was short it took a few hours to get him back out of my head. It was quite disquieting, and understood why some must not let the muse into their heads for their own sanity. When I did post it (in Drool) I did it most timidly and waited with ut breathing till someone said something. Everyone was terribly kind, and I could have wept. If I had not had that experience I would understand so little of what genius it takes to create things out of one's mind and put it on display, and I would be much the poorer."}, {"response": 10, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jan  7, 2000 (17:10)", "body": "muses can be terribly frightening and i think it's because they touch on those things that you keep hidden (like your bum) and so to bring those things out and to expose them (as it were) is terribly intimate. i was always afraid to share my poetry (not to mention my artwork) because i was sure someone would find me crazy or otherwise \"not right\". and our own eyes are our worst critics. my stuff looks like kids work to me. (not seeking praise by saying that). but once the door is open and you find an audience, it's easier to post things even though you're afraid they might not like the new stuff you give them. the insecurity is still there. boy am i glad i'm not an actress in hollywood, i'd go nuts with the tabloids and stuff!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jan  7, 2000 (17:43)", "body": "I know that feeling. I think the more truly artistic (and not just impressed with ourselves) we are, the more insecure we are. Just like Olivier having stage fright (yes, he did, by his own admission.) I could not do it except in a loving and accepting environment! I crumble very easily, I'm afraid...!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (13:53)", "body": "Join the club - I love being creative ,but feel very insecure about showing the results! However, one of my new year resolutions is to try and be creative at least once a week. Often my paints, card making materials etc stay in the drawer for months on end."}, {"response": 13, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (14:06)", "body": "Good for you...I believe I shall do the same...and I think we will have a place for display if you think it does not fit here. Wolf and I are asking Terry for an Crafts conference!!!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, Jan 10, 2000 (12:41)", "body": "That sounds like a nice idea."}, {"response": 15, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jan 10, 2000 (13:07)", "body": "Now, Terry just has to get time to do it or get one of his volunteer \"geeks\" to do it for us...I'm not holding my breath, but it will happen when time permits."}, {"response": 16, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Jan 10, 2000 (13:23)", "body": "and speaking of, terry, i mean, not geeks *grin*, how's things going for you? please take your time in responding to our requests, we can wait. just take care of yourself and let us know if we can do anything to help you out."}, {"response": 17, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jan 10, 2000 (16:49)", "body": "Yup! Terry, do as Wolfie says...(I think she outranks you!) Take your time and we will remind you should you forget...*hugs* to flu-bound Wolfie, and *preventative hugs* to all of the cyber wizards connected to Spring. We love you!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 11, 2000 (02:58)", "body": "My mom died this morning about 10 am so it's been a hard day, my sister called with the news this morning. We'd been expecting it but not quite this soon. She died peacefully in her Walnut Creek, CA home."}, {"response": 19, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jan 11, 2000 (11:01)", "body": "Terry, My sympathies. Please take care...we care!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "patas", "date": "Tue, Jan 11, 2000 (12:02)", "body": "Terry, I'm very sorry for you. I'm glad she went peacefully at home, it must be the best way."}, {"response": 21, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Jan 11, 2000 (18:31)", "body": "i'm very sorry terry. let us know if we can do anything for you *hugs*"}, {"response": 22, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, May  6, 2000 (17:18)", "body": "I put this in aesthetics of earth, but i think it fits here too. MY PICTURE I have a small canvas of mine that is the family 'treasure', it goes wherever we are. It is my soul in paint, and reminds me everyday day of where I've been and where I'm going and speaks to me of growth and movement, yet there is a dark heart of unknowing. It's not a true landscape in that it was sparked by some wood and developed as a sort of journey in paint. Everytime I look at it I can trace the journey. I guess it's a bit like an australian aboriginal dreaming picture, a songline. I painted it in anguish at 17 on unprimed canvas stretched over an old picture frame. It is oils and polyfilla. It's there one the wall for people to see, still unframed after all these years, but, just like 'me', the meaning is hidden unless you look with different eyes."}, {"response": 23, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, May  8, 2000 (14:58)", "body": "Will You Photograph or Paint? In 1839, Louis Daguerre captured reality and presented it to an awestruck world on a silver plated, copper plate. Thirty years later, it was the rising popularity of this \"photography\" that moved Claude Monet to strike back with his own counterblow; a daring expansion of reality in blazing colors; a painting called Impression Sunrise. It soon became the stated goal of Claude Monet, Auguste Renoir, Camille Pissarro, Paul Cezanne, Edouard Manet and Edgar Degas \"to capture an image that the camera could not.\" The art world responded by calling their works \"the art of lunatics and maniacs.\" In reviewing an Impressionist exhibition in 1871, the art critic for Le Patrie wrote, \"In seeing the lot you burst out laughing, but with the last ones you finally get angry. And you are sorry you did not give the franc you paid to get in to some poor beggar.\" Speaking of these same paintings today, art appraiser Lance Hermus tells us, \"These works fetch, by far, the highest prices in the market. Even works of lesser quality sell in the millions.\" It is profoundly sad to note that there was never an American Impressionist; not a single, solitary one. We Americans, you see, tend to stick to the facts. Following his visit to America in 1882, Oscar Wilde wrote, \"The male American is the most abnormally serious creature who ever existed. He talks of Europe as being old; but it is he, himself who has never been young... He has always been prudent, always practical, and pays a heavy penalty for having committed no mistakes. It is only fair to admit that he can exaggerate; but even his exaggeration has a rational bias. It is not founded on wit or fancy; it does not spring from any poetic imagination.\" Would Oscar Wilde have said what he did, had he met you? In your descriptions, are you of the school of Daguerre, or are you of the school of Monet? Do you merely capture reality with your words, or do you expand upon it with the boldness of a maniac? I'll let Joseph Brodsky illustrate: \"I was born and grew up in Baltic marshland by zinc-grey breakers that always marched on in twos. Hence all rhymes, hence that wan flat voice that ripples between them like hair still moist, if it ripples at all. Propped on a pallid elbow, the helix picks out of them no sea rumble but a clap of canvas, of shutters, of hands, a kettle on the burner, boiling. Lastly, the seagull's metal cry.\" I think Oscar Wilde would have approved of Joseph Brodsky and I believe that Claude Monet would definitely have seen in him a brother of his own soul. So what do you think? Did Brodsky expand your imagination just now, or did he waste 17 seconds of your time? Roy H. Williams MMMemo@wizardofads.com art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 32, "subject": "Negro Art", "response_count": 9, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (14:40)", "body": "Negro art became of consequence in the United States during the 20th century in the general progress the Negro has made in all the cultural ac- tivities, including music, drama, poetry, and fiction. Not only have there developed Negro painters and sculptors of admirable talents as individuals, but they have produced pictures and statuary genuinely interpretative of the race. No first rate genius has appeared so far, but Rich- mond Barthe's sculpture comes near making the grade, particularly his dancers, female and male, with their Negro rhythms. Leadership among the painters is ascribed frequently to the Pennsylvania Primitive, Horace Pippin (d. 1946), given recognition by New York's Museum of Modern Art, where he was en- rolled among \"Masters of Popular Painting, European and American.\" Other contemporary names of note among painters are Hale A. Woodruff, Aaron Douglas, William H. Johnson, Archibald J. Motley, Jr., Rex Gorleigh, Charles Sallee, Eldzier Cortor, Charles Seebree, and Palmer Hayden. All of these artists are seeking and partially succeeding in putting into their pictures something that is characteristic of the Negro. So far, however, they have followed the trails blazed by white artists who have succeeded in catching the spirit of the black and brown peoples. They ignore the ancestral sources that produced the amazing African sculpture, an integral factor in the development of white Cubism."}, {"response": 2, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (18:25)", "body": "ok, i'm sorry, but i read through the first paragraph and am having problems. why does it sound like they're surprised? and what exactly is negro art? i mean, do we have white art? hispanic art? (no offense in anyway to you wer). perhaps someone can enlighten me. does it have to do with the times or something? when there was much ignorance about different cultures and peoples?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (22:46)", "body": "it was copyrighted in 1953...thought it might be an interesting retrospective...or do ya'll think it is best left in the past?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (11:16)", "body": "no, because african american culture is part of the present, i think we should keep it and showcase their art past and present."}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (13:23)", "body": "I agree that we should have a topic on African American culture, but would you be offended if I started it anew, under the name, Black Art? I may be over-sensitive, but 'Negro Art' doesn't sound right to me - don't know why that word still exists. It doesn't make these artists sound like the proud, majestic people they are. I'd also like to merge AFrican and American black artists together, because their work have so much in common, and because I find their work in a league of their own."}, {"response": 6, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (14:26)", "body": "Are they artists who are black, or is it artwork that depicts black people? Or both?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (16:20)", "body": "They are black artists, and from what I've seen, their work is almost a whole different genre from that of white American, AFrican and European artists. It has a very ethnic feel to it, the colours are fantastic, there's a strong African undercurrent - it's great stuff. I know exactly what Wer meant by creating this topic. Personally I owe alot to black African artists in my country - it is their art that has always been an inspiration to me, that led me to do a form of art that is truly creative, and not just a copy of reality; their art that truly depicts Africa, not that of the white people down there, who all paint African scenes in pastels. Africa is not about pastels. It's about life and energy and the brightness of our clear skies. I'd love to show some pictures of black Namibian and South African Artists here, nd to learn more about AFro American artists, but not under the name Negro. It's too fifties, and I can't help but associate it with the negative implication this term had had until far too recently. If we should get black artists and art lovers to participate here, I don't want them staring into that word in my conference - I respect them too much."}, {"response": 8, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (19:29)", "body": "i agree, Africa is the opposite of pastel. bold and vibrant. just the very name of the country indicates that to me. yes, do open it under a new name cuz i felt the same way, riette. we've had some excellent black painters who depict life during slavery. it's good that they painted their life so we can balance it off of the \"owners\" perspectives."}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:28)", "body": "Thank you for that, Wolf. I was scared I was going to be trashed for this. So, I'm just going to freeze the topic, and open it under a new name. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 33, "subject": "Black Art", "response_count": 49, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:37)", "body": "I thought we could start with the Harlem Renaissance Artists. William H. Johnson 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot' This looks very much like the kind of black art you see in Africa too; I find it vibrant and intriguing."}, {"response": 2, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (16:13)", "body": "love how he paid attention to knees and elbows! are the girls angels? was trying to figure out what the pink feathers were for. this piece is interesting. i love the unpretentiousness of it...."}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (00:51)", "body": "Yes, I think they are indeed angels. Though I'm not sure about the interpretation of the picture either. If there are more similarities between African and American black artists, then it could be that this has something to do with a folktale - but I'm not sure. But another thing I find astonishing with this type of art, is the rhythm, the music in it. The colours, the figures, even the way the horse with the chariot jumps - there is a really strong rhythm in this painting. It's great."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (01:10)", "body": "Lo\ufffds Mailou Jones 'Les Fetisches' 1938 Very powerful, hey? And I think we can all tell from the title what this might be about. I like the way the magic/black magic theme is incorporated. The girl becomes tiny as she is engulfed by the obsession, as if her lover or admirer was trying to lure her to him through magic. Or perhaps the artists intended some very different meaning - but it's fun to speculate."}, {"response": 5, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (22:12)", "body": "Reminds me of the dada art of the surrealist movement."}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (01:51)", "body": "I don't like dada art. But shall I open a topic anyway? It does play quite a role in the art of this century."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (07:37)", "body": "Sure, mama open dada."}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (09:08)", "body": "ha-ha! Okay, Mr. Walha! Hey guys, sorry I can't put in photos for you today - I only have a few minutes; got a guy, whose doctoral thesis my husband is supervising, coming over from Oxford tonight, and have to attend a vernisage. \ufffdsigh\ufffd I hate that mingling thing. Damn, what'll I cook - I can't cook!!!! Fondue? In this weather? $hit, who cares? Fondue it'll be."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (09:35)", "body": "What's the thesis on and what's that word you used that starts with v?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (11:24)", "body": "no kidding! and what line of work is your husband in?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (23:29)", "body": "not to butt in and all, however there's a hymn/spiritual that goes something like this... \"...looked over Jordan and what did I see, Coming for to carry me home, A band of angels coming after me, Coming for to carry me home Swing low, sweet chariot, coming for to carry me home...\""}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (01:24)", "body": "Oh, so that's what the painting is all about! THANKS, Wer!! The thesis is on William Furtw\ufffdngler, Organicism in his music, and the whole controversy surrounding his career in Germany during World War II. A Vernisage is the official opening of an exhibition (and it was a pain!!). Chris is a music historian and conductor."}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (14:17)", "body": "Here is a very very sweet one: William H. Johnson Untitled 1940-41"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (17:19)", "body": "He has been influenced by the work of Riette Walton."}, {"response": 15, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (18:08)", "body": "i like this one. is the little boy hitch-hiking?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (01:01)", "body": "What warped ideas you have sometimes, Terry! Couldn't paint like that if I tried. And, ha-ha, Wolf!!! It really looks like he's hitch-hiking, doesn't it? You've got such sharp eyes for these things!!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (12:48)", "body": "you know, it's the whole composition, mom's waiting with their baby girl and dad's trying to get it started with junior and he just looks like he's got his thumb out cuz dad ain't never gonna get it started!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (01:43)", "body": "ha-ha!!!! There speaks the ultimate art interpreter - you should become an art critic, Wolf. At least people will start to enjoy reading about art! I love your comments!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (14:57)", "body": "HAHA!!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  1, 1998 (04:24)", "body": "Here's a truly gorgeous one: Lo\ufffds Mailou Jones 'Jardin du Luxembourg' c. 1948"}, {"response": 21, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:49)", "body": "WOW!! This one just takes you in and makes you part of the square."}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:11)", "body": "Yes, you're right - it has a very IMMEDIATE quality about it. Lovely."}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (01:32)", "body": "Hale Woodruff 'Afro Emblams' 1950 What do you think of this one?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (11:28)", "body": "hmmm..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (12:09)", "body": "had a hard time figuring this one out-the pic is too big to see at once so it seems really busy. thought i saw a chair......"}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (12:59)", "body": "I find it wonderful in a very abstract way. Not a clue about the interpretation, I must confess! But the colours are wonderful - I'd love to have this hanging in the living room of my flat on the Namibian coast. The blue would go so perfectly with the sea, and the pastel dunes that one sees from the kitchen windows will form a wonderful contrast."}, {"response": 27, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (15:17)", "body": "that sounds so pretty!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (01:19)", "body": "To me it's the most beautiful place on earth."}, {"response": 29, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (21:15)", "body": "This one is not for me, but I bet it would look great in your house, Riette!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (00:55)", "body": "Let's just say it would blend in with the chaos...."}, {"response": 31, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 15, 1998 (04:22)", "body": "William H. Johnson 'Flowers' Wonderful painting!!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep 15, 1998 (19:23)", "body": "what a pretty bouquet and look how he included some of the petals on the doily.."}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (00:56)", "body": "Yes, and the colours! He just composed the whole painting so beautifully. The colours almost LOOK like the shapes of the flowers. Not to mention the gorgeous background."}, {"response": 34, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (22:16)", "body": "It's so vibrant it could be illuminated. Ok, turn it off now!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 17, 1998 (01:15)", "body": "ha-ha!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 27, 1998 (10:18)", "body": "John T. Biggers 'Shotgun, Third Ward' 1966 Does anyone know about Black American history of the 1960's? I would like to find out about the context in which this painting was done."}, {"response": 37, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Oct  1, 1998 (14:28)", "body": "As blacks lobbied for civil rights in the 60s, a lot of (southern) black churches were burned to the ground. Blacks were lynched, tortured, and beaten to be \"taught a lesson.\""}, {"response": 38, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct  2, 1998 (05:15)", "body": "Thank you, Autumn. How moving. I find the figure on the woman on the left with her arms behind her back particularly poignant."}, {"response": 39, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Oct  6, 1998 (18:49)", "body": "uh-oh, what did i miss? i'll go back (southern black churches have been burnt here rather recently-it's really sick)"}, {"response": 40, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Oct  6, 1998 (18:57)", "body": "oh my gosh--i thought this was a happy painting because the red glow in the back made me think of a sunset and i thought the children were dancing. didn't occur to me that it was a fire and the church had been burnt down. just thought it was an old church. well, now that i know what's going on---the woman with her hands clasped behind her back makes me think that she feels helpless and this is a fact of life. like, there's nothing she can do but stand there and watch. it's a shame how ignorant people can be to think that just because one is different from another doesn't mean the one is superior. it's wonderful we are all different no matter what skin tone, nationality, or sex. my goodness, we all cry when we're sad, you know? i can't understand why this stuff still goes on in this day and age. and i don't understand what this tolerance stuff is all about. we should accept each other, not just tolerate--i mean, that doesn't change the meaning of what the ignorant believe-it just means, ok, you don't have to accept other cultures, just put up with them for a while. that's sad."}, {"response": 41, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Oct  6, 1998 (18:57)", "body": "sorry, got up on my soapbox...."}, {"response": 42, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct  7, 1998 (03:35)", "body": "No, no - your response makes alot of sense. I don't see the sense in it either. I mean, why is it that WHITE people think themselves superior? Of all the nations on earth, we are probably the least attractive - so why??"}, {"response": 43, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Oct  7, 1998 (16:52)", "body": "i really don't know, ree-head! and if you study color in a scientific manner, white is all the colors at the same time and black is a lack of color or void of color. so i find it interesting and laugh because people are so ignorant."}, {"response": 44, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Oct  7, 1998 (17:37)", "body": "I always heard that black-and-white thing the other way around!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Oct  7, 1998 (22:15)", "body": "really??? i remember this thing from my 9th grade art class-and who says you'll never use the stuff they teach you *haha* i'll have to do some checking--hey, ray! you're the science guy, what do you know about this matter?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Wed, Oct  7, 1998 (22:21)", "body": "for mixing lights, all of the primary colors shined in one spot make white. of course mixing all of the primary colors of paint just gets you gray purple goo."}, {"response": 47, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Oct  7, 1998 (22:40)", "body": "right-it would only happen with light as passed through a prysm. has something to do with absorbtion and reflection. so a red flower is red because that's the color that's being reflected back at you. the other colors are absorbed. oh, probably making an idiot of myself (what else is new) but if memory serves, this is the way it was spelled out in Biology 101. (no i didn't fail-got a B)"}, {"response": 48, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Thu, Oct  8, 1998 (17:33)", "body": "no, that's about right, wolfie!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Oct  9, 1998 (09:08)", "body": "really? do i get an A for retention???? where's that professor's number........ art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 34, "subject": "What did they look like?", "response_count": 14, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (01:02)", "body": "Let's start with a fairly unknown self-portrait by Vincent van Gogh. No idea when it was painted, but there you have it:"}, {"response": 2, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (13:21)", "body": "such an intense man...."}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (15:43)", "body": "My kindda man..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (22:13)", "body": "He already looks deranged."}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (01:52)", "body": "That's because his ear is cut off."}, {"response": 6, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (15:15)", "body": "H.R. Giger"}, {"response": 7, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (15:17)", "body": "photograph copyright 1993 Dana Frank/NYC"}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (15:33)", "body": "ha-ha!!!! Going to laugh myself to death, I think! He looks just like Wilson from Home Improvement!!!!!!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (18:24)", "body": "yeah! nice to see you wer *hug*"}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (06:39)", "body": "Claude Monet 1840-1926"}, {"response": 11, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (21:16)", "body": "I love that beard."}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (00:57)", "body": "I think he was an ugly old bugger!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Sep 13, 1998 (21:24)", "body": "Yet you find Sean Connery attractive. Interesting..."}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (00:53)", "body": "Sean Connery is a SEXY ugly old bugger, that's the difference! Maybe Monet wasn't all that ugly under the ten meter long beard. No, when a beard goes THAT grey, it's time for a shave, know what I mean? art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 35, "subject": "Art of the Fantastic", "response_count": 19, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (10:09)", "body": "Between the two World Wars, painting lost some of the raw energy of modernism it began the century with, and became dominated by two rather philosophical movements: Dada and Surrealism. These arose partly as a reaction to the senseless atrocities of World War I, and partly because artists were becoming introspective, cencerned with their subconscious dreams. Salvador Dali once said, \"Surrealism is destructive, but it destroys only what it considers to be shackles limiting our vision.\""}, {"response": 2, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (16:08)", "body": "Bring it on!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (23:57)", "body": "especially Dali's Crucifixions..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (05:55)", "body": "I will start with a pretty amusing one just for you, Wer! Salvador Dali (1904-1989) 'The Enigma of William Tell' 1933 And an enigma it is!!! But I'm not sure whether it belong here, or in your Extra Limb Topic???"}, {"response": 5, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (10:36)", "body": "can't say that I've been exposed to this one previously, Riette..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (13:11)", "body": "me either, it was kinda scary!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (23:34)", "body": "but thought provoking, as well..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (01:10)", "body": "I find it absolutely hilarious - I mean, what kind of a MIND comes up with this?!?! HEY?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (01:16)", "body": "if'n I could paint, I'd show you..."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (01:19)", "body": "Oh, I have no doubt you'd come up with a few even more mystifying ideas!!!!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (01:23)", "body": "already have them, just can't do anything with them..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (01:32)", "body": "TRY!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:50)", "body": "Bring on the freak show!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:12)", "body": "ha-ha!!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (01:44)", "body": "Okay, here's another thoroughly amusing one by the same artist. Salvador Dali 'Massochistic Instrument' 1933-34 Do you suppose the girl beats the crap out of herself with that violin? Ping! Ping! Ping!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (07:31)", "body": "I was just wondering if my instrument would be in the same shape when she was done playing, as well..."}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (13:00)", "body": "\ufffdBURSTING OUT WITH HYSTERICAL LAUGHTER!!!!\ufffd"}, {"response": 18, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (21:19)", "body": "What's the pear-shaped thing lying on the ground??"}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (00:57)", "body": "A pear? art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 36, "subject": "Gustav Klimt (1862-1918)", "response_count": 39, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (01:48)", "body": "Characteristically, the figures in Klimt's paintings are treated more or less naturalistically, but embellished - in the background or their clothing for example - with richly decorative patterns, creating a highly distinctive style of extraordinarily lush sensuality. I don't know how many pictures by him I'll be able to find and post, but I do feel he deserves a topic for being an extraordinary artist."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (01:58)", "body": "I'm going to start with some earlier works, and hopefully, as this topic grows longer, we will be able to compare his paintings, appreciate their versatility, but also his progress as an artist. Gustav Klimt 'Love' 1895 If I didn't know that this painting was by the same person who did 'The Virgin' that I posted in 20th century art, I would never have guessed it. It is not a perfect painting; I think it is because he simply hadn't at this point found his unique style as all artists must in order to become happy in their work. He was following convention instead of his heart. But it still is a good painting, and I can't help but be reminded of Jane Eyre and Mr. Rochester when looking at it."}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (16:09)", "body": "Good comparison!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  1, 1998 (04:07)", "body": "Gustav Klimt Beethoven Freeze (first section) 1902 Though Klimt was highly successful early in his career as a painter of sumptuous decorative schemes, he was drawn to avant-garde art, and this wall painting clearly shows the influence that Impressionism, Symbolism and Art Nouveau had on him. This first part illustrates man's search for happiness."}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (13:31)", "body": "And the rest of it: Gustav Klimt Beethoven Frieze (last section) 1902-03"}, {"response": 6, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:53)", "body": "More dreamy-eyed women! So soothing, yet weird."}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:15)", "body": "I think it's because his faces and figures are pretty naturalistic and serene - but he frames them in such incredible colours and patterns that it can't be anything but weird!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (01:25)", "body": "Alright, so all three pictures I have posted illustrate the beauty of love and hope etc. Now for something that personifies the dark side of love.... Gustav Klimt 'Judith I' 1901"}, {"response": 9, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (21:21)", "body": "Wonder what happened to Judiths II on?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (01:07)", "body": "Patience, deary!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (21:23)", "body": "I have really come to like Klimt by viewing these pictures and add me to the list of folks who can't wait to see \"Judith II\"; there really is more? By the way, Riette, are you going to comment on these topics in your videotape in the making? (can't hardly wait for that either!)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 12, 1998 (01:23)", "body": "Shoot, I never thought of it, Terry!!! Like what sort of comments? I will probably be doing some sort of introduction, and at one point I sort of blabber about what's happening with the painting I was doing at the time. At the moment it's sort of bits and pieces, which I will try and bring together on a proper tape - though, how it's going to come out with my technical skills is a big mystery to me. Still haven't been able to make pictures of Z\ufffdrich, as the weather has been totally black here for over a week now. But once that's done the tape will be more or less finished, I think. It's all very silly and boring, so don't get yourself excited. AT least you'll have something to laugh about when you see what a frump I really am! HA-ha!!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 12, 1998 (01:29)", "body": "And: Gustav Klimt 'Judith II' 1901 I think both these paintings would both look good in the 'Eroticism in Art' topic as well. In this one I think the face is just fantastic."}, {"response": 14, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep 12, 1998 (08:48)", "body": "ok, what's up with the person peeping from behind her skirt?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 12, 1998 (16:03)", "body": "It's Wer, no doubt! See, he looks just like that one funny photo he posted that time!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep 12, 1998 (17:18)", "body": "true :)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Sep 13, 1998 (21:27)", "body": "Riette, you could make your own little art documentary--you could be the next Sister Wendy!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (00:08)", "body": "can't be me, I'd be too busy peeking up her skirt..."}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (00:59)", "body": "LOL!!! Sister Ri\ufffdtte. Imagine! Not sure Sister Wendy (who is, by the way, South African) would approve of her fellow sister's language usage though.....or the camera guy peaking up her skirt! At least I'd smile the Mona Lisa smile all the time! Which reminds me: in Afrikaans there is a saying that one says when a woman laughs very loudly. It goes: \"Sy lag soos 'n non op 'n worteltrok.\" It means: \"She's laughing like a nun on the back of a carrot van.\" When Sister Wendy smiles, I always think of this saying!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (10:27)", "body": "oh i love sister wendy! \"Wembwandt's work duwing the Wenaissance\""}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (13:15)", "body": "She's gorgeous - I learned more about the interpretation of paintings through her programme than through any of my many books. Great old las!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Charlotte", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (13:35)", "body": "Klimpt's \"The Kiss\" is my favorite painting of all time. It is the only reproduction hanging in my home. All I can afford is a lithograph! I can stare at it for hours. I never fail to see something new, or feel something new. I was hoping someone would post it here so I could have it for screen wallpaper. :)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (14:53)", "body": "that's how i feel about the embrace sculpture. it's lovely to look at and is not risque in anyway. who did the kiss? was it klimt?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Charlotte", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (15:43)", "body": "Yes. I will see if I can find it on the web somewhere."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Charlotte", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (15:47)", "body": "Here it is. Klimt's \"The Kiss\": http://www.mit.edu/people/lpachter/pic.html"}, {"response": 26, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (15:49)", "body": "thanks, i'll go look!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Charlotte", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (15:49)", "body": "Here it is. Klimt's \"The Kiss\": http://www.mit.edu/people/lpachter/pic.html"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Charlotte", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (15:50)", "body": "Or maybe this is more convenient..."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Charlotte", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (15:51)", "body": "argggh! i have no idea why it isn't displaying. Terry, can you or WER fix it for me?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (16:26)", "body": "I can't right now. I'm behind a firewall, dah link."}, {"response": 31, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (21:07)", "body": "well, i went to the link and checked it out...the piece is familiar now that i've seen several of his paintings here...i can recognize it by looking at the woman's face. funny, never thought i'd really recognize and associate an artist's work this way...(besides da vinci, michangelo, picasso, monet, etc.)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (21:07)", "body": "well, i went to the link and checked it out...the piece is familiar now that i've seen several of his paintings here...i can recognize it by looking at the woman's face. funny, never thought i'd really recognize and associate an artist's work this way...(besides da vinci, michealangelo, picasso, monet, etc.)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 15, 1998 (00:52)", "body": "Gustav Klimt 'The Kiss' I always think of this painting as an icon to love. The two lovers are painted in such a way that it is difficult to see where one ends and the other begins. I think it is about the loss of oneness, the loss of the selve when one loves another. Sorry I haven't really posted many pictures this week - I've been dreadfull busy."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Charlotte", "date": "Tue, Sep 15, 1998 (12:24)", "body": "Thank you, Riette! Isn't it gorgeous! The tenderness is nearly tangible."}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 15, 1998 (12:56)", "body": "One of my all-time favourites; now that I experience just such a love, I can appreciate it even more."}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 28, 1998 (01:19)", "body": "Now for something a little different. Gustav Klimt 'Idylle' 1884 I find the baby in this painting just gorgeous - reminds me so much of Elza. She also stands like that with her funny little feet."}, {"response": 37, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Oct  1, 1998 (14:30)", "body": "A real departure from this artist's other work!! Yes, the babies are sweet."}, {"response": 38, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct  2, 1998 (05:17)", "body": "He is just so incredibly versatile. I read that this guy was a terrible womanizer. Perhaps that is why he paints women so beautifully."}, {"response": 39, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Oct  2, 1998 (23:34)", "body": "He can really appreciate them! To a fault. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 37, "subject": "Image Tester", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 38, "subject": "Edwardian Delights", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (11:38)", "body": "Let's start with something by an anonymous artist."}, {"response": 2, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:55)", "body": "Sorry, but I had to process enough of that crap when I worked for an antique postcard dealer."}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:16)", "body": "Sorry, Autumn!!! Just skip the topic from now on - I'll understand. Don't know why I like this kitch either!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 28, 1998 (01:27)", "body": "Anonymous 'Gypsy Dancer' This has more of an Art nouveau feel to it, I find. I love Art Nouveau pictures. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 4, "subject": "who are your favorite artists?", "response_count": 81, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "eustacia", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (20:38)", "body": "Hi, I just love an artist named Guy Rose. He is an American Impressionist. I also like Frank Benson."}, {"response": 2, "author": "doug", "date": "Thu, Jun 12, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "Myself of course, but also there is Sam Yeates of Austin, we just did a review of his work for Capitol City A&E Magazine. He is originally well known for his Armadillo World Headquarters Poster Artist, but now he is dipping his tool into oil."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 12, 1997 (17:56)", "body": "Which posters did he do? Which concerts? I remember many of these."}, {"response": 4, "author": "doug", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (02:46)", "body": "Sam did posters for LoneStar Beer, for several musicians around Texas, Bob Segar, lots of blues musicians. You can see original oils at Wild About Music."}, {"response": 5, "author": "doug", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (02:47)", "body": "I'm not bad myself!?! http://www.io.com/~larue"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Denise", "date": "Thu, Jul 31, 1997 (19:38)", "body": "Hi, my name is Denise, I am an avid collector of Harrison Fisher, I have been collecting for about twenty years. I collect bookplates, some covers, postcards, novels and I am trying to find some original art and some different pieces such as calendars and I also have heard of a room screen that is decorated with his work. I have several large illustrated books and many novels that Harrison Fisher illustrated. I would be very interested in any information and or material done by Fisher. Thanks Denise"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Rochelle", "date": "Tue, Sep 23, 1997 (23:13)", "body": "The Pre-Rapaelites as a movement, Dante Gabriel Rossetti in particular. It's no longer quite the indicator of poor taste that it once was, and I can safely admit I'm a Rossetti admirer even in academic circles."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 24, 1997 (07:54)", "body": "What are Rosetti's more famous paintings?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jun 23, 1998 (17:39)", "body": "Pretending I didn't hear that . . . ashamed to say, I don't have a clue. There are simply too many artists to be able to keep up, I swear. I have about 500 favourite artists, but I'll start with a top 10 - but they're all ones. Peter Mwahalugange (my all-time favourite and friend) Joyce Mbonani (favourite Ndebele artist) Andr\ufffd Derain August Macke Alexej von Jawlensky Ljubow Popowa Franz Marc Wassily Kadinsky Vincent van Gogh Sonia Delaunay-Terk (like her work better than that of her husband, Robert Delaunay) Expressionism is my thing."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jun 23, 1998 (17:47)", "body": "Doug La Rue, I've just checked out your page. Nice."}, {"response": 11, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (09:08)", "body": "my favourite artist is M C Escher. I studied him quite a bit in my art course this year, and really really enjoyed his work. i wrote my essay (\"MC Escher and the link between art and mathematics\") on his illustrations etc."}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (12:27)", "body": "Hope you still have it - once we get going here, that's the kind of thing I want us to share. Mike, can you tell me how to do that background thing, and how to scan in pictures? I have a scanner, but have only had it for three days, so I'm still a little clueless."}, {"response": 13, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (12:53)", "body": "yeah, sure. probably best to drop by the porch conference. i'll open a host-help topic there to pre-empt the host conference that we seem to be getting."}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (13:02)", "body": "Thanks, Mike - will have a look!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "lafn", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (16:14)", "body": "Hi Terry and Riette, I'm just visiting...came over from Drool. Great conference.....will come often. Congratulations! And oh,BTW...Camille Pissaro is my fav. So I guess I belong with the Impressionists."}, {"response": 16, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (16:48)", "body": "I'm a big Impressionist fan too, especially of Renoir. Gotta love Matisse!!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Renata", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (17:27)", "body": "Hi, I'm Renate and managed to take a break from Drool :-). I love water colour painting, particularly English Landscapes and German Romanticism. Have to think about a list of my favourites, but J.M.W.(?) Turner is one of them."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Arami", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (17:58)", "body": "Joseph Mallord William - Turner. An amazing painter, a visionary far ahead of his own times. Can't say he's a particular favourite of mine, but I have a great respect and admiration for him. (I also normally dwell in Drool, but hope to be popping in occasionally to have a look around.)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (23:38)", "body": "Didn't he do a painting of haystacks? Turner, I mean."}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (00:52)", "body": "BIG WELCOME TO THE DROOL SISTERS!!!! THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING! Terry, you just can't tear your mind from the hay, can you?? Anyway, it's quite possible that Turner painted haystacks during his travels to Holland and France, though I can't think of one off-hand. You're not thinking of Millet in that respect, are you? One of Turner's most famous (and beautiful) paintings, is Steamboad off a Harbour's mouth. I'll try and find it, and post it here."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Renata", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (17:39)", "body": "This is an address to the tate gallery, with A HUGE AMOUNT of Turner pics, but no haystack so far :-( http://www.tate.org.uk/coll/cchtm/turnerj1.htm But at least there's one that is called \"Walton Reach\". http://www.tate.org.uk/coll/cchtm/n02681_c.htm"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Nan11", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (20:49)", "body": "I'm a Van Gogh gal, m'self :-)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (00:46)", "body": "Thank you, Nan! And I'm with you - I absolutely ADORE Van Gogh's paintings. The lines and colour, the movement in his skies, the texture of his ground, it is all so beautiful. And the second painting (The Church at Auvers, painted June 1890) is one of my favourite paintings by him - saw it last year in the Musee D'Orsay in Paris, and it's even more impressive in real life than on photos. The colours are just incredible."}, {"response": 24, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (21:46)", "body": "Isn't he great? My kids love \"Starry Night.\""}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (00:52)", "body": "Oh, I absolutely ADORE Starry Night! So, just for our pleasure: Vincent van Gogh 'Starry Night' 1889 He painted it after going into an asylum at St R\ufffdmy at his own request in May that year. I must say if going insane would help me paint like that, I'd gladly give um my only slightly instable frame of mind for a frenzy."}, {"response": 26, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:02)", "body": "now i can put the name with the work. he did scream, right? i particularly love the swirls and how everything is an impression. so if you stand back and look, you know what the composition is. the big black waves in the foreground make me think of a bonfire (the smoke)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:02)", "body": "oh, that asylum was probably the only place he could find some quiet!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:08)", "body": "Hmm, there's a thought! His work must have been shocking in those days. Mad or not, I find him probably the 'sexiest' figure from the past - passionate, intense, sensitive, strange, impulsive, energetic, lonely, waiting for a woman like me to revive his ragged, ravaged soul......!!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:09)", "body": "well then he definately was ahead of his time, wouldn't you say?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (12:55)", "body": "I think he was - mad as a hare, or not. Perhaps he went mad BECAUSE of that."}, {"response": 31, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:57)", "body": "yeah, cuz he knew you were coming but didn't know when *sigh* how romantic *wink*"}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (01:03)", "body": "That would be a nice thought to flatter myself with, but I suspect it was more a case of seeing I was coming, and thinking: FU\ufffdK!!!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (11:19)", "body": "LOL!!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (20:56)", "body": "Incredible energy in Van Gogh's work/life!! However, I feel sure \"The scream\" was painted by Edvard Munch, who may be Norwegian. Maybe we can post a picture of that one, eh art goddess?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (22:23)", "body": ""}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (22:43)", "body": "I'm not the art goddess but I posted it anyway. Being a Norwegian and all."}, {"response": 37, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (23:15)", "body": "Thanks! Gotta love it. I have an inflatable version."}, {"response": 38, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (23:19)", "body": "had heard that about you..."}, {"response": 39, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (00:00)", "body": "Ha ha!!! It would really say something about me if \"the Scream\" turned me on!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (00:57)", "body": "Thanks for that Autumn, and Terry. I think 'the Scream' is a fantastic painting. I find it amazing how this artist could paint really expreme psychological states with such and unprecedented conviction and intensity - it almost borders on the frenzied at times. Apparently he once said of his own art: 'Just as Leonardo da Vinci studied human anatomy and dissected corpses, so I try to dissect souls.' Great stuff!! You're Norwegian, Terry?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (07:07)", "body": "Half. On my dad's side."}, {"response": 42, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (07:17)", "body": "And have you ever been to Norway? How are you today, Terry?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (13:38)", "body": "I'm ok except for my mouth which is swollen a bit from my dental work. I've never been to Europe, much less Norway. My sister, the traveler, has been to Norway though. And so has my dad."}, {"response": 44, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:34)", "body": "i like scream. it takes a lot of bravery to show a relevant human emotion such as anger or fear (or even total surprise) in a world that always wants a happy ending."}, {"response": 45, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (00:49)", "body": "I think so too. Some artists do it to shock people, or because they think it 'the modern was'. But not Munch. His pictures are real."}, {"response": 46, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (04:06)", "body": "And now for something quite different. . . . Pierre Puvis De Chavannes (1824-1898) 'The Balloon' 1870 136cm x 86cm I saw this one in the Musee D'Orsay in Paris last year, and found it just wonderful in real life."}, {"response": 47, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:08)", "body": "Is that Steve Forrester up there??"}, {"response": 48, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (01:01)", "body": "ha-ha!!!! No, it's Barney, actually."}, {"response": 49, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (01:14)", "body": "And let us not forget that truly great one, Leonardo de Vinci. Leonardo de Vinci 'Portrait of Mona Lisa' 1503-1506 While this is by far not my favourite painting, seeing it in the Louvre was utterly impressive. Did you visit the Louvre when you were in Paris, Autumn? What did you think of it?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (18:21)", "body": "FANTASTIC. I could've spent 18 hours there barefoot! ha ha. Loved seeing this one from behind the little brass railing, it was such a thrill."}, {"response": 51, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:01)", "body": "Next time I'll probably stay even longer, what with the new Egyptian department!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (08:50)", "body": "My favourite Art Nouveau artists is Alphonse Mucha, and so I'll give you one of his: Alphonse Mucha (1860-1939) Strangely entitled: 'The Cowslip' (!!)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (11:12)", "body": "strange indeed! a girlfriend of mine (back when we were younger) had a book full of these pictures that were devoid of color. we had lots of fun coloring them in."}, {"response": 54, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (12:36)", "body": "in case ya didn't know, a cowslip is a flower..."}, {"response": 55, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (12:58)", "body": "I didn't - thanks for that; a comforting thought. I thought the girl was on her way to present some lucky bull with those flowers!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (06:03)", "body": "Here is something I like: Jean Baptiste Armand Guillaumin (1841-1927) 'Tall Trees in Autumn' 1876 I don't know much about this painter. He was a French landscape painter, one of the minor figures of the Impressionist group. And he was one lucky guy. Lack of success made it impossible for him to rely on art for income - until he won a lottery in 1891, that is. This enabled him to devote all his time to painting for the rest of his life! The painting itself I find really really pretty."}, {"response": 57, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:36)", "body": "Wolf's sky is just as good as his! But yes, the fall colors are perfect."}, {"response": 58, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (20:13)", "body": "thanks, Autumn...the whole picture brings to mind the smell of fall in the air, the crispness of it..."}, {"response": 59, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (01:04)", "body": "And I like the way the trees on the right just goes on forever, almost like the artist intended for them to reach straight into heaven. Wolf's sky is potentially BETTER than his."}, {"response": 60, "author": "isis", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (21:12)", "body": "my favorite artists are paul cezanne for his work with pointillism.....and van gogh for his dedication to his friend in cutting off his right ear from an arguement they had had over a piece of artwork that van gogh was doing at the time....but michealangelo shows patience and perseverence in making a masterpiece like the Sistine Chapel,,,that actually crippled him from holding his head back like he did for so long......."}, {"response": 61, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (21:52)", "body": "Interesting about Michaelangelo, Judy. Have you been to the Sistine Chapel, Riette?"}, {"response": 62, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (01:06)", "body": "Once. It was a very moving experience, even though at the time I wasn't really into art. I remember standing there and thinking what bliss it must be to have such talent, to make something so profoundly beautiful with ones hands; I thought this not only because of the art, but the chapel itself is just so beautiful. I still think that!!!! I mean, my art is really worthless, absolutely worthless compared to that sort of thing. Unfortunately one isn't allowed to take photos in there - no idea how the ell photos of it get into art books!!! I want to ask you something too, Terry: do you get these really big, fantastic cathedrals in America?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (02:27)", "body": "Nothing on the scale of Monmartre or the Sistine Chapel. Or at least nothing that I know about."}, {"response": 64, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (11:11)", "body": "What a shame. Being inside on of them is such a singular experience - makes your skin tickle. My favourite cathedral will always be Christ Church Cathedral in Oxford - the first one I ever entered. I have not been able to just walk past one since that day - I HAVE to go in."}, {"response": 65, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (17:22)", "body": "Has anyone here heard of Louise Moillon?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (17:45)", "body": "No, but I sure would like to hear about her."}, {"response": 67, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (19:21)", "body": "me either. is she a painter? or a potential springeur?"}, {"response": 68, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (01:16)", "body": "No, better! Louise Moillon was a professional artist in the 17th century! Isn't that incredible???"}, {"response": 69, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (06:52)", "body": "And her claim to fame?"}, {"response": 70, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (07:19)", "body": "Two surviving still lives, painted before and just as she turned 20. Then she married, had children, and gave up her career like a good 17th century woman."}, {"response": 71, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (08:03)", "body": "so how long was she a professional painter? and did she actually make a living?"}, {"response": 72, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (09:49)", "body": "Yes, she actually made a living from painting, though only for a very short time, because she married so young, and then did what all other women did. But still I find it so amazing! I never knew there existed such a thing as a 17th century female painter! I want to go to the library on Friday to see what I can find on her; I don't think much exists, but I get such a kick out of it!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (11:05)", "body": "sounds neat. i mean, in that century, a woman actually making a living on her own without doing the street walking thing. that's way cool. i certainly hope she kept painting even after she married. at least for herself and her children."}, {"response": 74, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (16:59)", "body": "I hope she kept it up after marriage. In those days women died giving birth, fairly often. I hope that is not what happened."}, {"response": 75, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (17:16)", "body": "hi patrick! are you new here? by all means introduce yourself in the porch conf, topic 1, \"lets introduce ourselves\""}, {"response": 76, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (18:28)", "body": "hi patrick!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (18:43)", "body": "Hello, wolf."}, {"response": 78, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (21:56)", "body": "Where ya' from Mr. T?"}, {"response": 79, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (00:40)", "body": "Welcome home, Patrick. I believe Louise Moillon simply stopped painting when she married - sadly so, because her work is truly exquisite. The little I have seen anyway. Back in the 17th century women were basically expected to tend to household and kids full time after getting married, and I suspect that is what happened to her too. But I must do some more research first."}, {"response": 80, "author": "PT", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (01:21)", "body": "I hope that she did do more painting at some point."}, {"response": 81, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (09:20)", "body": "Hopefully I'll manage to find that out. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 40, "subject": "Enter only if you're a member of Art Centaur Gallery project!", "response_count": 25, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (09:35)", "body": "First of all we have to create the board. The board will basically act as advisors to Wer and me. Everything happening in the Gallery must be approved by the board, whether it be the art we exhibit there, the layout of the place, or prices. I would like for Wolf to head the board - any objections? The people I had in mind for members, are these: Wolf (as said before) Terry Ray Autumn Stacey Mike But please don't feel you HAVE to do this, anyone; those who don't have the time or energy for this, just let me know. Can you think of anybody else who might want to be a part of this, or who would be good to have? And would anyone have objections to Sonja, my sister, being an unofficial member? She does not have internet or much time at the moment, but would love to participate by mailing me with suggestions and comments, which I can post here in English. Okay, that's probably it for now. Wer, what does one do first in designing a web page?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (09:56)", "body": "I need your centaur logo... then we can fit a color and design scheme to that... also, start thinking about what \"extras\" you would like..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (12:10)", "body": "woohoo! yes, we definately need folks who are experienced in different areas. so, your choices are good, riette. thanks for putting me on the head of the board (wow, you love me, you really do). just hope i'll prove good at it. have you worked a centaur yet? (isn't that a man's upper body attached to a horse?) maybe i'll get a chance to look about and come up with an idea."}, {"response": 4, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (12:22)", "body": "i would be honored to be bored with wer, terry, riette, and everyone else!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (13:16)", "body": "Brilliant! Thank you all so much for your support! Great that you're in, Ray - I was afraid you might not be interested, for which I wouldn't blame you. It's just nice with you here. Wolf, I know you are the right person to keep my feet on the ground! And I know you will be good at it - your web site proved it already. I loved the way you underlined the mood of your different poems with the fitting background - that sort of thing would be great for the gallery too. I've started doing some sketches on the centaur, but I need your help. Should we go for a more classical looking centaur, or should I do an African-nish design? My feeling is that it should be simple, but with good, slick curves, and to keep the colours simple, say black and something else? Those of you who want could also do designs, post them, and I can incorporate your ideas into my design, which will make the logo truly OUR own. My idea so far is of a centaur jumping over the moon. I have an appointment for coming Tuesday to have the first photographs done of my pictures. I think it would be better to have them done professionally, as paintings never look as good on photographs as they are - and my photographing is bad enough! I'm having most of them done, earlier works included. As I've only been painting seriously for 2 and a half years there aren't that many, but I still want only what you guys think is good enough to go into the gallery - I can't judge it properly. Therefore the more we have to choose from the better. Lastly I would like to thank Wer for suggesting this idea, and for being my eyes in this journey into the unknown!!!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (16:02)", "body": "keeping the logo simple is good, as is keeping the color count at 4 or less, and I'd keep with your strengths and go African-ish... my \"artistic\" input will be taken care of with buttons, design, clip art, font choices, etcetera... (I've never always been represented with eyes by someone, Riette, but I am finding the symbologies intriguing...)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (16:20)", "body": "you're a sweetie, wer and you \"see\" more than most people know! riette is very perceptive. so what you're really saying is that basically you're running the show?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (17:45)", "body": "not at all, and if that's the way it appears, then I apologize... I was just saying that I can't draw, etc...so my contributions to \"OUR\" site will be the peripheral stuff instead of the centerpieces..."}, {"response": 9, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (20:40)", "body": "i was just kidding, wer (you knew that, right?) besides we know who really does anyway! ok, so once you get an address, what do you do next? how do you get your stuff to show up there? i thought maybe we could put in a header or something so people who surf in might know what's coming (kinda like a mall getting a new shop).....i was thinking of making a banner (there are lots of places to submit banners for free advertising) and posting the centaur icon and some info/addresses of who to contact for more info. whatcha think?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (21:25)", "body": "I'd be thrilled to be included in such a project, but I don't know what I could possibly contribute besides moral support."}, {"response": 11, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (23:35)", "body": "Wolf, you have to have whichever web server software you prefer installed on whatever type of machine you're going to use for your server, and follow the directions from there...when it gets up, I'm planning on installing a banner in here in the sponsor slot I've got set up in the template...and yes, we will have to put it in the search engines and do banner swaps if we want ourselves..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (01:15)", "body": "Moral support is a great and noble thing, Autumn - thank you for coming along! Wolf, your ideas sound great - I would never have thought of stuff like that, banners and advertising and what-have-you-all! Brilliant. In the meantime I have finished designing the logo. I shall probably spend today colouring it, and then I'll post it. This one is a slick sort of version, not really African in style, so I don't know how you'll like it. I've decided on black, red, yellow and blue as colouring, but that can be changed. I am working on an AFrican version as well, which I should have f nished and coloured by Monday, and then we could vote. The African version, I'm afraid, will have no arms, so I don't know how that will go down!! If any of you feel like fiddling with the colours, or fiddling with the logos generally, let me know now, and I'll e-mail you it. You can then post your ideas of what my idea should look like, and hopefully in the end we'll have something everyone approves of."}, {"response": 13, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (07:59)", "body": "ok, so wer, frontpage isn't a platform? see, all this stuff is new to me. i've got some space at xoom but don't have a clue how to get a page started there. oh, i started a banner type pic. it doesn't have to be a banner or anything, just something i'm fiddling with. when it's done, i'll post it for you guys to critic. i think the centaur without arms will go well with art-i mean, look at the statue of Venus. no one complains that she's armless!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (10:28)", "body": "frontpage includes a web server, yes... I'll go look at xoom and see what I can see..."}, {"response": 15, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (10:43)", "body": "Riette, I think arms are highly overrated! Venus de Milo seems to be coping well without them..."}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (10:56)", "body": "True, true - I shall be worried no longer! I have now finished the colouring of the first kind of logo I had in mind, and it is being sent to Wer right now - so soon you will have something to shoot at!!! If everyone likes it (which I somehow doubt!!!) it'll save me alot of trouble with the African design - which I'm not all that keen on. I hate colouring these things - it's such a slow, eye-buggering process! On the other hand it might be better to see both versions. Wolf, can't wait to see your banner bitsies! Post it as soon as you can, pleeze!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "wer", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (16:32)", "body": "inner conf has been created, everyone on Riette's list has access, and a topic very similar to this exists in there..."}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (17:17)", "body": "Great!!! Thank you, Wer! Henceforth I shall use this topic as a kind of record so that everyone who logs in here can see what's happening with Art Centaur. Now, about the background: This is good, but a little depressing, because I fancy I can see the old colours trying to break out and shine through; and yesterday's was pretty damned boring if I have to call my own ideas that. I miss the old background! Simple as it was, and as difficult to read, I loved the bright colours. I miss them. Do you think we could have them back? Oops, and nearly forgot, for those who don't log in here so regularly, and for those who are here for the first time - whenever that may be: Satuday, 12 September 1998 Creation of a special conference for creating a web page called Art Centaur. This, I presume, means that the board is more or less set up, and the designing of the page will be started as soon as possible. If you read this, and are interested in helping with Art Centaur, please let me know either here, or via e-mail. Special thanks to Wer for swift, decisive action!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (21:04)", "body": "the darker colors are easier on the eyes, but the lt colored text isn't so easy to read....it's your place, do as you please......"}, {"response": 20, "author": "wer", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (22:58)", "body": "um, this is my fault, not hers...did it on a monitor that has a red shift so I don't know what the colors look like...will have it fixed (I hope) in a bit..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "wer", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (23:05)", "body": "well, what do ya'll think of this?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "wer", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (23:10)", "body": "didn't read Riette's response earlier, will put it back the way it was tomorrow, hopefully this will do for now..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 12, 1998 (01:31)", "body": "Thanks, Wer. I can hardly read this blue at all - bring the sun back into our lives!!!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Sep 18, 1998 (05:19)", "body": "wiggling my toes in anticipation..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 18, 1998 (07:06)", "body": "Mike, this topic has now moved to INNER, but I'll let you know once things get going. I wanted to have some pictures photographed so Wer could have something to start on, but the weather has been too awful - I was scared they'd get damaged. It's due to get better over the weekend, though, so hopefully I'll get it done early next week. But I'll let you all know. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 41, "subject": "How creative have you been today?", "response_count": 72, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 28, 1998 (01:29)", "body": "At the moment I don't feel particularly creative."}, {"response": 2, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Oct  1, 1998 (16:21)", "body": "Me neither."}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct  2, 1998 (05:17)", "body": "So bugger it. Let's go for a drink instead."}, {"response": 4, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Oct  2, 1998 (23:34)", "body": "Sounds good. What'll you have?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Oct  3, 1998 (05:06)", "body": "Something terribly alcoholic - like Kirsch. You?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Oct  7, 1998 (15:43)", "body": "Car bomb! (Guinness w/shot of Irish creme)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Oct  7, 1998 (22:17)", "body": "hmmm, i tacked up a bunch of animal pics on my cubey---does that count?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct  8, 1998 (13:23)", "body": "You bet it does!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "sonja", "date": "Fri, Oct 16, 1998 (12:53)", "body": "LOL! (the laughing thing, that is) Sorry I'm not much use here - I really know nothing, nothing about art."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Oct 17, 1998 (01:15)", "body": "That doesn't matter, girl."}, {"response": 11, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Apr 10, 1999 (12:51)", "body": "*sigh*"}, {"response": 12, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sat, Apr 10, 1999 (23:50)", "body": "missing Ree-head? Or your creativity? (or both?)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Apr 11, 1999 (00:22)", "body": "missing Ree... (it is more of a missing drive on the other...)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Apr 12, 1999 (19:00)", "body": "have you heard from her?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Apr 12, 1999 (23:19)", "body": "nope..."}, {"response": 16, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Apr 22, 1999 (00:41)", "body": "have now..."}, {"response": 17, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, May 24, 1999 (13:49)", "body": "my creativity has been limited to doodles on a sheet of paper while attending a meeting......hey, i heard that's how monet got started *grin*"}, {"response": 18, "author": "KJArt", "date": "Sat, May 29, 1999 (17:44)", "body": "I would like to visit and read this much more WITHOUT the garish color stripes as background! Sorry! ;-). (Just being honest!)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, May 30, 1999 (12:56)", "body": "they do grow on you after awhile, and we do appreciate your honesty (and your visit)!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, May 31, 1999 (03:15)", "body": "Hi, have you ever tried one of the other flavors around here? I would like to point you to the food and restaurant-conferences (it's 10:00 am over here, no breakfast yet ;=} ), also the movies and music confs are fun... I guess. Collecting and Cultures both start with \"c\", so does \"cool\". No \"c\"oincidence..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, May 31, 1999 (10:16)", "body": "i've gotten used to the stripes KJArt....so don't let them keep you from visiting!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, May 31, 1999 (11:22)", "body": "Stripes and colours is what art is all about. And with reading over the stripes, the art lies in the challenge - it challenges your perception."}, {"response": 23, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (15:34)", "body": "And as I said somewhere else, all is just perception. The whole thing. Communication. Emotions. Urges. All perceptions, and interpretations of perceptions. That why we all make so many mistakes all the time; our perceptions are not standardized. And more - we're not even sure about them..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (17:29)", "body": "Alexander what do we have to do to jump-start this place again. Art is not my talent...I appreciate it and buy it and look at it, but do not actually 'do' it. What can I do besides getting a kid's art program and letting the world know I have no talent and that a 4 yr old can draw circles around me...sheesh!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (08:14)", "body": "It's okay, I got the message, I got the message. And, in keeping with the topic, today I've been working on a painting called, 'Firebird'."}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  2, 1999 (09:22)", "body": "What size is it?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  2, 1999 (11:29)", "body": "Not too big, but mega colourful. 80cm x 100cm Maybe another week's work."}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (08:03)", "body": "Uh, can you (or someone) put that in feet and inches for the metrically challenged among us?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (13:35)", "body": "SOMEONE, where ARE you??? 'cos I really don't know, Terry-guy"}, {"response": 30, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, Sep  4, 1999 (10:26)", "body": "Two-and-a-halfa feet wide by three feety tall? Depends on shoe size, of course! (Alternatively, go for \"lotsa inch by lots-n-a-bit-more inches\", maybe like 26 x 33''.)"}, {"response": 31, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, Sep  4, 1999 (10:29)", "body": "(I always work with approximating it - three centimeters somehow relate to an inch, as does one meter to three feet or one yard. Stricly nonscientifical. Oh, and the centimeters-to-inch exchange rate will always be favorable for us, so there is some consolation as the Euro keeps going down.)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep  4, 1999 (16:01)", "body": "!!!! If I hadn't had it withing sight, I wouldn't have a clue about the size of the painting now! No offense! Terry, the painting is as big as a quarter of a door. There ya have it."}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (08:28)", "body": "'Firebird' is now nearly completed. Have just done the next design. It's going to be a good one! Imagine a river scene, frogs, birds, bees, flowers ... and a wild fat lady in a brightly coloured dress, on the back of a ferocious crocodile. The title: 'The Wild Taming The Ferocious'."}, {"response": 34, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (19:12)", "body": "and when do i get to post them for you?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (01:11)", "body": "When I've photographed one, and DONE the other! You little pusher, you!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (20:53)", "body": "See, I did not push you...I just waited for them to appear in my email inbox"}, {"response": 37, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (01:02)", "body": "ha-ha!! Get a load of this girl! Marcia is guilt-tripping me!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (19:56)", "body": "Not true! Honest. That is what I did. How fun to find them in my morning when I logged in. (bowing out before I wear these stripes horizontally)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  8, 1999 (02:35)", "body": "ha-ha! You know what my mum always does? When I don't e-mail every day, she sends me a mail asking if she's going to hear from me at all again this year! She's a real brat, and the most childish 50 year-old I know, but GREAT to have as a mother."}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (00:19)", "body": "That's so great that y'all talk to each other daily."}, {"response": 41, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (03:39)", "body": "It's nice. Mum's friends always call us the triplets when we're together!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (08:02)", "body": "Female bonding, women are so great at this."}, {"response": 43, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (01:12)", "body": "And sometimes at the exact opposite! But males have that big bonding thing as well though, don't they? That 'Yo, mah M\ufffd\ufffd\ufffdn!!!'-thing."}, {"response": 44, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (08:05)", "body": "Yep, we sure have that Yo, mah M\ufffd\ufffd\ufffdn!!! thing. Yo, bro."}, {"response": 45, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (13:03)", "body": "Yes, EXACTLY! ha-ha! Yo bro! That's so funny. Female bonding doesn't come with the vocabulary or cool handshakes."}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (15:55)", "body": "Make something up! How about a friendly pat on the ar$e?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (16:38)", "body": "don't think that'd do it, somehow..."}, {"response": 48, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (03:52)", "body": "No - that's how we bond with males!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (11:42)", "body": "Well, think up some kind of female bonding gesture, maybe you could start a new social custom?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (16:03)", "body": "I would have to be subtle...no fingering genetalia as the natives do in New Guinea (men only, as I recall) or funny handshake as in the FreeMasons. Not sure I am aware of women bonding gestures in my studies on similar subjects. Further study is needed (dashing off to the search engine of choice...)"}, {"response": 51, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (18:33)", "body": "i think woman-bonding is a matter of intuition. we are beyond the handshake and other physical gestures. *grin*"}, {"response": 52, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (20:22)", "body": "Indeed, it is! It is a gut feeling of some intangible nature which usually involves more of our emotional giving than to other women with whom we do not bond. Thus, misunderstandings between bonded females requires remedies, not just letting it goand ignoring it, hoping it will go away. I cannot rest until I have undone whatever damage I might have incurred in such situations."}, {"response": 53, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (20:51)", "body": "yup, and breaking up after bonding is just as hard, if not harder, than breaking up a romantic relationship with a dude!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (21:08)", "body": "It tears away part of what you are inside...The same thing happens with the rare male with whom a woman has managed to bond. it is wrenching and painful. It leaves scars which never quite go away."}, {"response": 55, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (01:40)", "body": "You're right. When a friendship with a guy is made of the same stuff as with a real girl friend, then it's REALLY good. But otherwise it is harder to break up with a good girl friend than it is with a romantic guy involvement. When Chris and I had a hard time I missed the bonding thing rather than the sex. It was unbearable to think we might never sit by the lake, eating hotdogs and drinking Coke anymore. Weird, isn't it?"}, {"response": 56, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (07:47)", "body": "\"Beyond the handshake and other physical gestures\" eh? So, you're making fun of my puerile notion of female bonding? Sidestepping the issue? So y'all can't come up with a simple physical gesture like the guys have? Like a high five or the double fist? Come on, we have some of the best female minds on the net, just something subtle and low key? But seriously, these are some cogent thoughts on the nature of female/female, femaile/male bonding. It is hard when one of these relationships breaks up. Wow, it's a two of coffee mMonday and I think my mind went into warp drive about an hour ago. Can you tell?"}, {"response": 57, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (11:32)", "body": "No one is making fun of your notion of female bonding. It is just that your suggesting for bonding occurred while some heavy stuff was happening in some lives at Spring, and we ran with the idea into some deep and serious thoughts. I am ready to high-five and get on with another cup of coffee and join you in warp drive. It is too much for my groggy awakening mind can handle right now. I am right behind you...lead me!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (19:51)", "body": "i think my all time best bonding experience was when my daughter was born. they put her right on my stomach, still yuck, still attached. it was the most wonderful, moving, heavenly thing i have ever been blessed with experiencing. and the day i touched a living breathing wild dolphin. that comes in a close second. and i feel that the best relationship i could ever expect to have is with my dogs. of whom i love dearly. only animal lovers can understand this bonding. others think animals are flea-bitten poopin pains in the arses. and i feel terribly sorry for them. (and none of this is to say that i don't have wonderful relationships with humans, because i do.)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 14, 1999 (02:35)", "body": "I agree with you, Wolfie. Animals and one's own babies - that's the ultimate bonding, because it is the most innocent and unconditional kind of love. It is virtually impossible to feel that even for one's closest friends."}, {"response": 60, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep 14, 1999 (13:00)", "body": "...this is true, and I am allergic to animals. *sob* Doomed to solitary existance or a perpetually runny nose...!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Sep 14, 1999 (15:40)", "body": "I'll stick with kitties for awhile and trust you both on the kids..."}, {"response": 62, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (05:27)", "body": "Oh yeah!! I forgot! Any ideas about when THAT'll happen yet?????"}, {"response": 63, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (06:42)", "body": "Notice the 3 dots after the word kids? Stacey is good at dropping subtle hints."}, {"response": 64, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (12:01)", "body": "ideas are: great expanses of time will pass before I pop out a child!"}, {"response": 65, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (12:24)", "body": "Yo, mah folks! How's y'all doin'? Ahn' whazz da poppin' sound aroun', good people? Lemme hear yer jive, ahn' gimme five! (Female bonding - isn't there some going on in How Do You Forgive right now? Complete w/ secret backslaps and molto special vocabulary! Cool, I didn't know that'd work on the web, too!)"}, {"response": 66, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (13:23)", "body": "Stacey, 9 months IS a long time! Alexander, WHAT female bonding?..."}, {"response": 67, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (13:07)", "body": "I think he's talking about the bonding glue we're gona need to put some people back together after you're done with em! *grin*"}, {"response": 68, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (13:29)", "body": "You mean there's a kind of glue that can glue mince meat together??? \ufffdsweet smile\ufffd"}, {"response": 69, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (18:01)", "body": "gross!!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (09:44)", "body": "Yes. But is it Art?"}, {"response": 71, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (11:51)", "body": "*laugh* probably..."}, {"response": 72, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (13:37)", "body": "TALK ta me, Francis BACON! art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 42, "subject": "comics as art", "response_count": 84, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov  9, 1998 (13:09)", "body": "http://www.hotwired.com/rgb/stastny/ is an interesting digital comic... is this art? What about some of the newspaper comics, are any of them true art? What comic do you like artisticly?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (01:32)", "body": "All comics are art. It's just that most of them are very poor art, but there are some real masterpieces out there."}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (04:42)", "body": "I have two words for you: James Rizzi. One of my all time favourite artists. 'Cats and Dogs are Lovebirds too' Thank you for starting this topic, Terry. It's funny, because I've just started working on an exhibition of crazy comic 3-d constructions with a great partner, Wolfgang Schoeck (great grandson of the famous Swiss artist, and son of the nephew of the famous Swiss composer). Something utterly different from what I normally do, but my art is ALIVE again. And having a lovely working partner is bliss!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (07:23)", "body": "I like it. Congratulations on the new partner, Riette."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (07:47)", "body": "That's great Ree, I hope you tell us all the details and post a sample or two in 3d. We can dig out our 3d glasses!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (08:10)", "body": "Go for it."}, {"response": 7, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (08:55)", "body": "this is great, ree-head!!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (01:41)", "body": "Thank you, guys. It is really great fun to do just anything that comes up in my head for a change. Nobody to please, nobody to impress - just to be 100% creative; that's what it should be about, right? I just feel better all over again. I've nearly finished my first effort called, 'Raining Cats and Dogs', and will take a picture as soon as it's finished. The fun thing is that I'll be able to do my own frames for these, like for the works in my first exhibition - which used to be almost more fun than doing the pictures themselves for me - so I'm looking forward to that too. And I'll post Wolfgang's things too when he gets finished. He's really great."}, {"response": 9, "author": "TIM", "date": "Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (04:51)", "body": "looking forward to it. also looking forward to the collaboration between you two and the products of that."}, {"response": 10, "author": "TIM", "date": "Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (04:51)", "body": ""}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (01:52)", "body": "Do you often do this meditative response thing? Just kidding! I've got about 2 days' work left on 'Cats and Dogs' - and am pretty excited about it. But I'm not sure the others will like it that much. All the sensual lines and atmosphere are GONE. That's what people normally like about my work, and what I'm sick of..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "TIM", "date": "Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (04:08)", "body": "Art is about expressing yourself...how YOU feel... NOT what everyone else wants to look at. the funny thing about it is that when you are doing what you need to do, everything else falls into place. I do the meditative response thing whenever i don't scroll down far enough before hitting the button."}, {"response": 13, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (22:15)", "body": "you know, Ree, it's kinda like sex..."}, {"response": 14, "author": "TIM", "date": "Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (23:44)", "body": "What is? Hitting the button prematurely? Not when I have sex."}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (02:08)", "body": "ha-ha!!!! Good one, Tim! Wer, if I had to express what I feel sexually, I'd be a very dangerous woman, fit only for prison!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "TIM", "date": "Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (03:59)", "body": "I've heard that they get really wild in prison. No holds barred."}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (01:36)", "body": "Ooh. Then I'll have to keep thinking of sex as a recreational, rather than a venting activity. I must go now - got a hot date today.... Have a great day, and I'll get Screwed later...."}, {"response": 18, "author": "TIM", "date": "Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (02:06)", "body": "Sounds like you are the one who's going to be having a great day. A hot date and get screwed later!!! Just kidding. I know what you meant. You have a good day too. and let me know how things went. Sex is definitely recreational by definition. Look closely at the spelling of recreation."}, {"response": 19, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (08:08)", "body": "haha!!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Nov 21, 1998 (01:17)", "body": "Oh, stop!! I'm broody enough as it is!!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sat, Nov 21, 1998 (01:17)", "body": "Sorry, Just a play on words. I have great fun with semantics. People often do not pay attention to the words that they use and how they can be misconstrued."}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 23, 1998 (01:53)", "body": "Yes, I too enjoy a certain brand of sementics...."}, {"response": 23, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Dec 15, 1998 (19:12)", "body": "as is well documented in the restaurants conf in the appetizers topic..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "PT", "date": "Tue, Dec 15, 1998 (20:01)", "body": "I don't think so. Look again. That conversation was between you, stacey, and autumn."}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Dec 16, 1998 (00:34)", "body": "Hmm, appetizer. What a lovely thought..."}, {"response": 26, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Dec 16, 1998 (10:36)", "body": "oops...my mistake...I need some sleep... (I know, Iknow, lame excuse but it's all I have to hang on to!)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec 16, 1998 (15:10)", "body": "Any port in a storm?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Dec 16, 1998 (18:29)", "body": "it has been known to happen..."}, {"response": 29, "author": "PT", "date": "Thu, Dec 17, 1998 (12:49)", "body": "It is good policy, generally. Otherwise you may find yourself facing, \"sink or swim\"."}, {"response": 30, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Dec 18, 1998 (00:07)", "body": "ain't that just the way? gotta know which bridges to burn..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "PT", "date": "Fri, Dec 18, 1998 (12:01)", "body": "I never liked the idea of burning bridges. It can trap you."}, {"response": 32, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Jan  6, 1999 (18:38)", "body": "keeping them all open denotes a sort of insecurity though..."}, {"response": 33, "author": "wer", "date": "Thu, Jan  7, 1999 (00:13)", "body": "and no place to get your weenie roasted... (not to mention your marshmallows!)"}, {"response": 34, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jan  7, 1999 (01:00)", "body": "This is starting to sound like a 'Cow and Chicken' script!!! Getting your weenie roasted! We could always hold a 'spring's biggest weenie' competition."}, {"response": 35, "author": "wer", "date": "Thu, Jan  7, 1999 (01:06)", "body": "and sell tickets!!!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "PT", "date": "Thu, Jan  7, 1999 (03:59)", "body": "True, but who would buy?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jan  7, 1999 (11:00)", "body": "people with money"}, {"response": 38, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Jan  7, 1999 (11:10)", "body": "*LOL*"}, {"response": 39, "author": "PT", "date": "Tue, Jan 12, 1999 (18:30)", "body": "Would that be everyone with money, or just a select few?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Jan 12, 1999 (21:39)", "body": "probably just a self-limitting few... (some people don't know how to have a good time!)"}, {"response": 41, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Jan 13, 1999 (14:47)", "body": "Good point."}, {"response": 42, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (14:29)", "body": "If you are talking comics, I'll talk Jack Kirby."}, {"response": 43, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (15:08)", "body": "and if YOUR talking Jack Kirby... I'll talk vacuum cleaners!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (15:28)", "body": "Huh? What did V. Cleaners draw? And for what publisher?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (15:29)", "body": "I don't think I ran across the name in my copy of Overstreet... But then, that's the 1984 edition... Even pre-manga-invasion..."}, {"response": 46, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (15:33)", "body": "Kirby= vacuum cleaner brand name... sorry... thought we were talking obnoxious household appliances... my bad! Try Understreet... I think maybe there's mention in there..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (15:37)", "body": "Ok, let's unriddle this - you first! Who's Understreet?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (08:15)", "body": "Jack Kirby? Don't know him."}, {"response": 49, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (11:40)", "body": ""}, {"response": 50, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (11:50)", "body": ""}, {"response": 51, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (11:52)", "body": "The Shine People 1999 Ri\ufffdtte Walton"}, {"response": 52, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (12:02)", "body": "I tried and tried to make it smaller in size but it just would not cooperate, so you get the full Ri\ufffdtte...enjoy!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (12:21)", "body": "Thank you, Marcia & Riette! Riette, German \"Schein\" or English \"Shine\"? Anyway, that's the people at your last vernissage, no? (Can't be the people at the Spring - too high male quota!) What makes it a comic? *********************************************************** Jack Kirby is one of the most super-legendary comic artists EVER! He worked for Marvel Comics from (at least) early Sixties until early Eighties (I think). Very classy style! I remember many Fantastic Four stories by him, so he was the one who introduced Silver Surfer, too, and the Nicht-Menschen (In-Humans?) living in the Himalaya. Very clear lines, excellent entertaining shapes, perspectives and forms, superheroes that couldn't possibly become the least bit more super. You think anything R. Liechtenstei stole, erh, converted into art was good? You haven't seen that! Overstreet is the catalog for US-comic books - every issue from every series is in there, prices according to condition and rareness of item."}, {"response": 54, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (13:27)", "body": "Stare at the Sky on Sighday 1999 Ri\ufffdtte Walton"}, {"response": 55, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (13:34)", "body": "Thank you Marcia - sorry for the trouble though. I'm going to have to figure the computer out better, so this won't happen again. What a pain! Alexander, 'Shine' is indeed a play on 'Schein'. Why it is comic? I suppose it isn't really, but it is a form of illustration - printed, not painted; which is why I classified it as 'comic'. Since my drawing abilities have let me down, I'll explain it better. Like I said, Shine is a play on Schein. If you look carefully (and even then maybe not!!), you'll recognize characters vaguely reminiscent of Hollywood stars. The green guy at the back, left, is supposed to be Peter Sellers, the red-faced guy ust in front of him is Fred Astaire. On his right is Cher. with Barbara Streisand in the yellow hair in front of her. Next to Barbara Streisand is Dustin Hoffman, as Tootsie. Behind him is Robin Williams as Mrs. Doubtfire. At the piano sits Holly Hunter as in 'The Piano', with Tina Turner on her right. In the bottom right hand corner, Clark Gable and a non-descript \"heroine\". So, some of the characters are recognizable as actors, some of the actors have a second layer of 'schein', that is, they hav assimilated their roles into themselves. And other faces cannot be recognized. It is up to the viewer to decide who they want to see as the real 'shine people'. Or they may decide to look at it is just a picture - that's the beauty of art. You can meet it halfway, or keep your distance - whatever feels safest. I love Lichtenstein's work, because of how he makes them. They are oil paintings, mimicking comics. I wouldn't know which ones are 'stolen', because I don't really read comic books. But I find some of his works quite deep - like 'Wham!', for example."}, {"response": 56, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (13:35)", "body": "OOPS! You sneaked that one in!! My reply above obviously refers to the previous picture ...."}, {"response": 57, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (13:55)", "body": "Alexander... Overstreet is the catalog for US-comic books - every issue from every series is in there, prices according to condition and rareness of item. ... and Understreet is merely a play on your Overstreet as vacuum cleaners was a play on your Kirby... sorry I'll cut it out for awhile! *grin* Ree-face (play on ree-head of course!), I LOVE em!!! Love em love em love em and I saved em to my desktop and wanna may the 'sighday' my computer wallpaper... can I, please? can I?"}, {"response": 58, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (16:16)", "body": "pffff! Don't ask me stuff like that! You know it's fine, girl!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (16:17)", "body": "Stace-face..."}, {"response": 60, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (16:21)", "body": "*smile*"}, {"response": 61, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (16:34)", "body": "Riette...I'm no art connoisseur...but love your stuff. Here's another comic artist I love, Chuck Jones...(yes, Marcia, from the classic Bugs \"Tannheuser\" episode:"}, {"response": 62, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (16:36)", "body": "Smart fellow, Chuck...protects his art well. To view his stuff (Warners, Dr. Seuss animation and more, see http://www.chuckjones.com and take the virtual gallery tour."}, {"response": 63, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (16:42)", "body": "REE...!!! It is not a pain! I am not artistic...let me do this for you...please?!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Aug 31, 1999 (16:45)", "body": ""}, {"response": 65, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep  1, 1999 (13:56)", "body": "Accidental Traveller 1999 Ri\ufffdtte Walton"}, {"response": 66, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep  1, 1999 (13:59)", "body": "Bun for Breakfast 1999 Ri\ufffdtte Walton"}, {"response": 67, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep  1, 1999 (14:02)", "body": "This lady is a genius. What a joy to enable the world to see her creations. Thank you, Ree Dear!!!"}, {"response": 68, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  2, 1999 (02:22)", "body": "Not a genius. A bored brat. And I DO have my typing to fall back on...."}, {"response": 69, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Thu, Sep  2, 1999 (02:40)", "body": "You ARE a genius. If that was just boredom, then I could make incredible images like that, too...but I can't!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  2, 1999 (09:27)", "body": "I was set back a little by 'bun' but awe inspired by the fanciful birds and clouds. It's so refreshing that ree's art is back!"}, {"response": 71, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  2, 1999 (11:31)", "body": "Yeah, 'Bun' was one of my less pleasant ideas!!! ha-ha! Thanks anyway."}, {"response": 72, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  2, 1999 (11:31)", "body": "When I grow up I'd like to be James Rizzi."}, {"response": 73, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (08:04)", "body": "Bun was a shock but maybe it will grow on folks. I'll visit it again later and see how I react. I love your fanciful works."}, {"response": 74, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (13:37)", "body": "It's okay - perhaps you just didn't have the stomach for that one. ha-ha!!!"}, {"response": 75, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (00:20)", "body": "It didn't revolt me or anything, it just wasn't my favorite ree-artwork. The best is yet to come, right ree ree?"}, {"response": 76, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (03:42)", "body": "If I can find the time.... And my kids destroyed my firebird. It's my own fault, I forgot to close my studio door, and they saw all the paint and black ink, and decided to add a few touches. 4 Weeks' work covered in black....I'm really pi$$ed off with myself."}, {"response": 77, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (08:03)", "body": "What a shame, can you recreate it?"}, {"response": 78, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (01:19)", "body": "No - I can never do the same thing twice. All the geometrical shapes - it get's really boring to paint them; I just couldn't possibly do the SAME thing again, where the outcome is predictable. Ugh! But I have a good idea what I'll do over it. A collage of some sort - I just have to think of a cool design. In the meantime I've started something in oil now; usual old figure thing. I so would be able to paint landscapes, but I always come up with new kinds of figures; I just find it so fascinating, and it comes so natural. Ah well, maybe I just need another 10 years to be mature enough as an artist to be able to capture all those subtle colours and shapes that make up landshapes. Or maybe I'll go way abstract - it's GOT to be easier to produce paintings in a matter of days rather than weeks or months! Do you know Rothko produced over 800 paintings??? All just those really abstract 'window' things. Pretty, but not alot of work, I don't think. And Andy Warhol produced over 2000 of those silkscreen paintings in his factory - well, his assistants did anyway ....."}, {"response": 79, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (08:07)", "body": "That's what you need, Ree, assistants. Well, at least you got a picture of the soon to be overpainted work. I'm glad for this."}, {"response": 80, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (13:06)", "body": "Yes, I photographed it ... I THINK! I have to have them developed this week - there are quite a few. I even remembered not to put on varnish before doing the photographs, so the chances are pretty good that they'll come out okay. Let's see."}, {"response": 81, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (14:25)", "body": "would varnish promote reflections of the flash? even if you used a matte varnish?"}, {"response": 82, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (01:43)", "body": "Not with matte varnish. But I always use the 'glanz' type. Acryllic paint colours are full of light, but 'glanz' varnish almost sets them on fire - that's how I achieve that VERY bright effect. I don't try to imitate light in my paintings, but rather to create it - like with a stained glass window where the patterns are lit by the sun outside."}, {"response": 83, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (07:48)", "body": "Neat, I'm glad you're staying so pluggined into your painting."}, {"response": 84, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 14, 1999 (02:37)", "body": "Pluggined!!! Great vocabulary, Terry!! The light thing is a Van Gogh influence - he also tried to create light instead of imitating it. I think he was just the most wonderful artist. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 43, "subject": "art news", "response_count": 22, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 22, 1998 (08:01)", "body": "Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:34:33 +0100 To: syndicate@aec.at From: Andreas Broeckmann Subject: Syndicate: LIFE 2.0 International Competition Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:02:34 -0500 (EST) From: Petronella Tenhaaf Subject: LIFE 2.0 International Competition LIFE 2.0 International Competition This is a call for submission of art works to an international competition on \"art and artificial life.\" We are looking for works in electronic and digital media that cross over with the field of a-life research. Artists whose work uses digital synthesis techniques and whose conceptual concerns are related to synthetic life and artificial evolution, are invited to submit their pieces. The work may employ techniques such as digital genetics, autonomous robotics, recursive chaotic algorithms, knowbots, computer viruses, avatars or virtual ecosystems. An international jury (Jose Luis Brea, Manuel DeLanda, Joe Faith, Rafael Lozano-Hemmer, Sally Jane Norman and chair Nell Tenhaaf) will grant three cash awards, with a first prize of US $5,000 (2nd Prize:$3,500 - 3rd Prize:$1,500), plus seven honorary mentions to the most innovative electronic art projects related to a-life. Furthermore, works that are awarded a monetary prize or selected for an honorary mention will be included in a \"Best of LIFE 2.0\" video which will be aired on specialty television programs and circulated at festivals worldwide. Assessment will be based on video documentation submitted along with an application form. The deadline for submission is Friday, January 15, 1999. The Life 2.0 International Competition is sponsored by the Fundacion Arte y Tecnologia in Madrid, Spain. For further submission information and the application form, please see: http://www.telefonica.es/fat/vida.html For questions concerning eligibility of entries: Nell Tenhaaf, Artistic Director mailto://tenhaaf@yorku.ca All other inquiries: Susie Ramsay mailto://fat@telefonica.es"}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 23, 1998 (01:55)", "body": "Digital genetics?? Well, hey! I'll just submit myself. That ought to give them a mutated genetic kick!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 23, 1998 (01:55)", "body": "In the ar$e, that is!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 23, 1998 (02:03)", "body": "That's it Riette, give them a jolt they'll never forget."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 23, 1998 (06:16)", "body": "Put it to 'em ree reee."}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 23, 1998 (07:47)", "body": "ha-ha! I just hope it doesn't backfire..."}, {"response": 7, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 23, 1998 (13:02)", "body": "Backfire? What an interesting concept. How could it backfire, Riette?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov 24, 1998 (01:45)", "body": "If someone were to stick a potato up my ar$e, and thus sabbotage me the night before."}, {"response": 9, "author": "TIM", "date": "Tue, Nov 24, 1998 (02:11)", "body": "O K, Riette, I missed something. Just how would the potato stop you?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Nov 25, 1998 (02:00)", "body": "Well, I was going to fart in their faces, you see - to show off my genetic make-up, you know. But with a potato in my ar$e, it would come out as a burp."}, {"response": 11, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Nov 25, 1998 (10:20)", "body": "lol! (btw riette, somewhere you asked me if i had been painting, no and haven't been writing either- sad, i know)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Nov 25, 1998 (11:20)", "body": "Hi, girl!!! Have you been too busy for it?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "TIM", "date": "Wed, Nov 25, 1998 (11:24)", "body": "Riette, we used to stuff a potato in the exhaust of the school bus when I was a kid. Pressure builds up and shoots the potato like a cannon. I thought you'd want to know."}, {"response": 14, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Nov 25, 1998 (17:55)", "body": "riette: have been way to busy, even on the days off! whew...."}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Nov 26, 1998 (06:45)", "body": "Well, good, Wolfie! Just don't let the birds fart on your canvasses while you're not using them! Tim, we used to do that too! Hilarious! Didn't you just love it???"}, {"response": 16, "author": "TIM", "date": "Thu, Nov 26, 1998 (17:57)", "body": "Yes, Riette, I did love it. I meant it in the context of your effort being sabotaged."}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 30, 1998 (01:57)", "body": "!!!!!!!!! Wash your mouth with soap, young man!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 30, 1998 (02:07)", "body": "Riette, I was merely suggesting that you could vent the other way also."}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 30, 1998 (02:07)", "body": "Oh! Well, that's alright then!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 30, 1998 (02:07)", "body": "Riette, what did you think that I meant?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Dec  1, 1998 (01:47)", "body": "I am not telling! Really, Tim, this time you can do what you like, I'm not telling you!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jan 23, 1999 (11:15)", "body": "or anyone else apparently... art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 44, "subject": "art nouveau", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 45, "subject": "art galleries", "response_count": 20, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (08:16)", "body": "The paintings at the gallery opening last night all had common themes, they had mountain ranges in the background and then they had urban elements from Los Angeles, Austin, and New Mexico. The colors were earthy. There was this small painting with a collage including a photo of an iguana I liked. I put my name on the mailing list because I liked the sample of work for the next, upcoming showing, a landscape with big clouds and sky. One woman complained, they had bland borders; white matte board and blond frames, but the artist pointed out this was dictated by the gallery. I guess they want uniformity so the paintings are all linked to the artist. I met the Deputy Editorial writer for the Statesman who was quite a fan of the artist. It was fun going from painting to painting and commenting on the works, I recommend that you visit an art gallery soon! Especially if it is an opening night event."}, {"response": 2, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (13:49)", "body": "My most memorable opening night at a gallery had a full-fledged orchestra with it and was held in the UHHilo Theater/Auditorium. Two prominent members of the local art community had combined their talents - an Artist and a Composer. It reminded me of Mussorgsky's \"Pictures at an Exhibition.\" As the paintings were projected onto an enormous screen, we read about them in booklets and listened to the composer's interpretations of the paintings. Lovely wine and cheese reception afterward allowed for discu sion and admiration of the event. It was splendid."}, {"response": 3, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (15:32)", "body": "never been to an opening of a gallery. hmmmm, perhaps i should look for some."}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (15:48)", "body": "You are not that far from Shreveport...there must be something around - even in your town. I mean, if Hilo has them...! Refuse to be intimidated. Look very studious and preoccupied with the art on exhibit and people with flock to your side...then smile knowingly. It drives them crazy *lol*"}, {"response": 5, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (19:36)", "body": "we do have them and they're in the influential part of town. trouble is, i'm too preoccupied to go. we have the barnwell center which hosts all sorts of things and i have been there a couple of times."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (20:12)", "body": "That's exactly what I did, Marcia and people did flock to me to hear my preposterous ideas."}, {"response": 7, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (20:14)", "body": "*grin* this is something i shall have to try *laugh*"}, {"response": 8, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (20:37)", "body": "Wolfie, it really works...but ya gotta keep a straight face. That's why the litle furrow on the brow is good...makes it harder to giggle. Terry, I am delighted to know you are one of the cognicenti as well. *lol*"}, {"response": 9, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (20:49)", "body": "yeah and some of those retro sunglasses. i knew running around at work like you were in the middle of something does a number on everyone else but never thought to try it at an art gallery or similar place. but i giggle to easily!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (21:14)", "body": "The one lady carried on and on about how bad the frames were. She was obsessing on this. The artist was Donna Yarrell by the way and it was at the Wally Workman Gallery at 1202 W Sixth Street, the two restaurants adjacent to it both had 2 hour waits on tables."}, {"response": 11, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jan  9, 2000 (21:56)", "body": "Amazing what is out there in the way of human intellect...! I still think if you cannot talk about the work the artist did (doubt the frames were part of the exhibit except to hold up the paintings), then you should certainly do the silent and mysterious that we did so successfully. I am delighted you shared that with us. *lol* I have smiled all afternoon thinking about it! Think I might have eaten prior to viewing the art, but it is good to know Austin supports fine arts to that extent. Our own resident (at Spring) Plastic Surgeon, Gi, has had her own One-Woman show in Lisbon where she lives. She kindly sent me the program from her last one, and if I ever get a scanner (non-radio type), I shall place it on the Spring so everyone can see how gifted she is and how lovely, too."}, {"response": 12, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (15:39)", "body": ""}, {"response": 13, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (15:41)", "body": "T H O M A S P A Q U E T T E P A I N T I N G S The Flanders Contemporary Art exhibition opens in Minneapolis on 26 May 2000. 400 First Avenue North Minneapolis, Minnesota 55401 tele - 612.344.1700 email - art@flanders-art.com http://thomaspaquette.com/"}, {"response": 14, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (15:43)", "body": "(Please do not let the above gentleman see this post...) Lucian Freud painting destroyed by mistake LONDON (Reuters) - Porters at a London auction house put a 100,000 pound ($158,000) painting by artist Lucian Freud into a crusher because they thought it was rubbish. ``It is an extremely unfortunate situation and we have taken immediate steps to prevent it happening again,'' said a spokesman for Sotheby's, who confirmed that the painting had been accidentally destroyed. ``It was a study rather than a complete painting and was worth around 100,000 pounds,'' he added. He gave no details of the painting by Freud, famed above all for his nude studies. The painting was delivered to Sotheby's but the porters believed the protective case containing the picture was in fact an empty box. They placed it in a refuse crusher. The Sotheby's spokesman refused to comment on the fate of the porters but he did say they had not been fired."}, {"response": 15, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (17:09)", "body": "I didn't see that in the news. it's unthinkable."}, {"response": 16, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (18:46)", "body": "And such a prestigious auction house. I am frightened for other artists..."}, {"response": 17, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, May 10, 2000 (21:42)", "body": "Did the student art show yesterday and the state art show today. The students need lots more work...not even a few catch-all phrases could have saved that one. However, the state one included item purchaced on our behalf by the State Fopundation for the Arts...so they were the best of what is produced here, supposedly. Others looked at me, and I found a slightly bemused smile and nod worked well when 'interesting prospective' did not. Could not work anything Terryesque into my conversation because there was so little landscape on show. I have gotten used to genius lately, and everyone else looks highly suspect to me. But, there were interesting collages and a brilliant free-standing metal fish sculpture which would grace the lovliest of our beach-front hotels. Pottery was ordinary as was the glass - with one exception (which I liked) but none won any citations at all. Actually the one which won the best oil/arcyllic on canvas was a huge ugly mess. It got MY personal worst in show (not counting the obviously amateurish offerings.) *Sigh* Art is as subjective to the viewer as to the creator! I really did enjoy myself - and thought about Spring and a friend who \"paints\" a lot!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, May 10, 2000 (23:40)", "body": "..and Picasso isn't half as good as one I know...but he is dead...! Picassos are hot draw at 20th century art auction NEW YORK (Reuters) - Pablo Picasso's ``Nature morte aux tulipes'' sold for $28,606,000 at an auction at Christie's Tuesday, one of four works by the artist that made up the top four lots at its spring sale of 20th century art. The 1932 portrait of Picasso's muse and mistress, Marie-Therese Walter, had been estimated to sell for $25 million to $30 million, and was bought by an anonymous private collector. Christopher Burge, honorary chairman of Christie's America, called the sale ``a terrific result,'' noting that the total for the night of $72,980,000, including the auction house's premium, was within the expected range of $64 million to $84 million. Art world eyes are squarely trained on this week's sales at Christie's and Sotheby's, the powerhouses of the auction world, as well as a Thursday sale at Phillips, the distant third house that is making a serious bid to play in the big leagues. A federal investigation and charges looming against Christie's and Sotheby's over alleged price fixing have been a major focus of the rarefied, high-stakes auction world since the scandal broke early in the year. Volatile financial markets also have executives concerned. Burge said Tuesday's results and those of Monday's sale of Impressionist and post-Impressionist art that took in $104.5 million ``absolutely spoke for themselves'' when he was asked how the scandal was affecting clients. ``Buyers came to buy pictures and are not paying attention to anything else, except what they wanted to buy,'' he added. And Picassos, apparently, were the hot item. ``Buste de femme assise sur une chaise'' was the evening's second-highest lot, fetching $4,736,000, just over its low estimate of $4.5 million. Two other Picassos fared even better, relatively. ``Buste de femme a la frange'' soared to $4,516,000, or half again its high estimate of $3 million, while ``Le peintre et son modele,'' a 1963 work, reached $3,746,000 after an estimate of $1.5 million to $2 million. OTHER ARTISTS DON'T DRAW THE CASH Other artists did not fare so well, with featured works by Jasper Johns, Andy Warhol, Franz Kline and Henri Matisse going unsold when bidding failed to reach required minimums. A Cy Twombly 1968 piece, ``Untitled,'' managed only $2,866,600, less than its $3 million low estimate, but was the fifth-highest price paid on the night. Matisse's ``Etude pour 'Nu rose''' set a new record for a drawing by the artist, fetching $2,701,000 after an estimate of $1 million to $1.5 million, and Joan Miro's ``Le serpent a coquelicots trainant sur un champ de violettes peuple par des lezards en deuil'' sold for just under $2.1 million. It had been expected to go for $800,000 to $1.2 million. Burge said that the two nights' sales indicated ``a very strong market, but at the same time not a crazy market. Buyers are being careful, but as always are looking for quality.'' He added: ``It is not a speculative market for works of lesser quality.'' On Monday the first major sale of the spring season took in $104.5 million at Christie's, with a Gustave Caillebotte work obliterating the previous record for the artist, selling for $14.3 million, and a Monet fetching $20.9 million. Caillebotte's ``L'Homme au balcon, boulevard Haussmann,'' an 1880, sold to an anonymous bidder after fierce bidding drove the final price to $14,306,000 after a pre-sale estimate of $6 million to $8 million. The previous record for a work by the French artist was $2,061,700. Monet's ``Nympheas'' was the top lot Monday, at $20,906,000."}, {"response": 19, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, May 10, 2000 (23:41)", "body": "...meaning Picasso is dead, of course..."}, {"response": 20, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, May 11, 2000 (07:54)", "body": "John Lovett did a hilarious Picasso skit on an old Saturday Night Live, where he'd sign napkins and folks clothes and shout \"Here, send your kid to college, I\"M PICASSO!\" Funny. art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 46, "subject": "Barney Ebsworth, Art Collector", "response_count": 75, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:33)", "body": "NEWS RELEASE 3 March 2000 For Press Inquiries Only (202) 842-6353 NATIONAL GALLERY OF ART ACQUIRES SHEELER'S \"CLASSIC LANDSCAPE,\" DOVE'S \"MOON,\" AND THOMPSON'S \"TREE\" GIFTS FROM MR. AND MRS. BARNEY A. EBSWORTH Washington, D.C. -- It was announced this week by Earl A. Powell III, director, National Gallery of Art, that the Gallery has acquired from Mr. and Mrs. Barney Ebsworth of Saint Louis, Missouri, Charles Sheeler's Classic Landscape (1931), a masterpiece of precisionist painting; Arthur Dove's Moon (1935), an outstanding example of abstraction inspired by nature; and Bob Thompson's Tree (1962), a hallucinatory scene inspired by Goya, that is evocative of folk art and the artist's African heritage. The Ebsworth collection is considered to be one of the premier private holdings of American modernist art. Both paintings can be viewed in the exhibition Twentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection, on view in the Gallery's East Building, 5 March through 11 June 2000. \"This is only the most recent example of how the Ebsworths have been steadfast friends of the Gallery, which has benefited especially from their keen interest in our twentieth-century American paintings,\" said Powell. Sheeler (1883-1965) was a master of both painting and photography. Classic Landscape depicts a scene from the Ford Motor Company's River Rouge Plant near Detroit, which the artist had visited in 1927 on a photographic commission from the company. Sheeler called the subject \"incomparably the most thrilling I have had to work with\" and went on to produce several watercolor and oil paintings inspired by the River Rouge Plant. Classic Landscape is the best known of these and has been exhibited widely. It is a work of remarkable clarity and order, with extraneous details suppressed and the forms of buildings and other structures expressed as boldly simplified geometric forms. To Sheeler, this industrial scene was comparable to the highest architectural achievements of the classical past. Dove (1880-1946), a resourceful and imaginative individual and artist, was among the artists championed by renowned photographer and art dealer Alfred Stieglitz. After a highly experimental artistic phase in the 1920s and grinding poverty in the early 1930s, Dove returned to his family home in Geneva, New York. With support from collector Duncan Phillips, Dove entered a very productive period, during which he painted Moon. A tree covers the glowing moon with shades of brown, yellow, green, and red ranging in intensity from pale muddy tones to richly saturated hues. Painted with short, thinned, almost translucent brushstrokes over hues of different intensity, the surface appears luminous. Thompson (1937-1966), an African American artist and Kentucky native, has been likened to a meteor for his brilliant but brief life in art. He received his formal art training at the University of Louisville and continued his career in New York City and Europe. He started out as an abstract painter, but later shifted to figurative expressionism. Tree, executed during his time in Paris in 1962, is a fauve-hued painting derived from Goya's fantastic and moralistic etchings, Los Caprichos (1799). Thompson morphed Goya's figures, except the angel, into primitive animalistic forms, emphasizing their bestiality and sexual violence. Barney Ebsworth has been a member of the Gallery's Trustees' Council and co-chair of its Collectors Committee since 1996. In 1997 the Ebsworths gave the Gallery Or (1973), its first work by Pat Steir. In 1998 they funded the purchase of another painting by the same artist, the lyrically beautiful Curtain Waterfall (1991), and made a partial and promised gift of Georgia O'Keeffe's Black White and Blue (1930), one of the finest works from a rich period in her career."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:34)", "body": "FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Linda Williams, SAM Public Relations (206) 654-3166; email: pr@SeattleArtMuseum.org Outstanding Collection of American Modernist Art Comes to Seattle Art Museum Twentieth Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection Aug. 10-Nov. 12, 2000 SEATTLE, Nov. 9, 1999\ufffdA wide-ranging and exciting cross-section of American painting from the World War I era through the 1960s will be on view in Twentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection at the Seattle Art Museum, Aug. 10-Nov. 12, 2000. Collected by Barney A. Ebsworth, an executive who resides in St. Louis and summers in Seattle, the more than 70 works in the exhibition include masterpieces by Alexander Calder, Willem de Kooning, Arthur Dove, David Hockney, Edward Hopper and Georgia O\ufffdKeeffe. A small number of exceptional sculptures and works on paper will also be on view. The Ebsworth Collection comes to Seattle from the National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C., where it can be seen from March 5-June 11, 2000. The Seattle Art Museum will be the only other venue for the exhibition. \"We are very pleased to be able to present this exciting collection on the West Coast,\" says Trevor Fairbrother, SAM\ufffds Deputy Director of Art/Jon and Mary Shirley Curator of Modern Art. \"Barney Ebsworth has had an uncanny ability to recognize major art before it is fashionable, and his collection is outstanding.\" In recent years, Ebsworth has collected works from the 1950s and 1960s, including important works be Andy Warhol and Wayne Thiebaud. The Ebsworth Collection is organized by the National Gallery of Art, Washington, D.C., and curated by Nicolai Cikovsky, Jr., Senior Curator, and Franklin Kelly, Curator of American and British Painting. In Seattle, the installation and programming will be overseen by Trevor Fairbrother. The exhibition is accompanied by a catalog, which will be available in February 2000. It includes an essay by Professor Bruce Robertson of the University of California, Santa Barbara, as well as entries by Cikovsky, Kelly and other staff of the National Gallery."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:34)", "body": "20th-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection August 10 through November 12, 2000 On view at the Seattle Art Museum from August 10 through November 12, 2000, Twentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection includes more than seventy works from one of the premier important private collections of American modernism. The National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C., organized the exhibition and published the catalogue; SAM is the exhibition\ufffds only other venue. Visit the National Gallery of Art web site for additional online resources about this exhibit. Barney A. Ebsworth, who splits his time between St. Louis, Honolulu, and Seattle, first became interested in art while he was stationed in Paris during the Korean war. Originally interested in European art, Mr. Ebsworth began collecting American modernism in the early 1970s, a relatively new field of collecting at that time. In nearly three decades, Mr. Ebsworth has amassed a collection that is recognized as one of the top 200 world-wide. He and his wife, Pam, are both enthusiastic patrons of the arts: they have made many gifts to museums nation-wide, including a 1980 glass and steel Christopher Wilmarth work they gave to SAM in 1998. The Ebsworth collection covers the period from the seminal 1913 Armory Show in New York through the late 1960s. Beginning with William Glackens (1870-1938) and ending with David Hockney (b. 1937), the collection includes several dozen major paintings in addition to a number of works on paper and a group of sculpture. Many of the works in the Ebsworth collection show the influence of European painting on American modernism. One of the earliest works in the exhibition, Glackens\ufffd Caf\ufffd Lafayette (Portrait of Kay Laurell) (1914) recalls the style of Renoir. Andrew Dasburg (1887-1979), who submitted four works to the 1913 Armory Show, created Landscape (1913) after the style of C\ufffdzanne. Profoundly changed by the Armory Show, artists like Stuart Davis (1894-1964) completely shifted their painting styles. Influenced by cubist works he saw at the groundbreaking exhibition, Davis began creating works that used the flattened shapes of synthetic cubism. A trip to Paris in 1928 provided him with his signature subject matter of boldly colored Parisian street scenes. The Ebsworth collection also includes works by several artists in the circle of Alfred Stieglitz, photographer and owner of the galleries 291 and An American Place. These artists, including Arthur Dove (1880-1946), Marsden Hartley (1877-1943), John Marin (1870-1953), and Georgia O\ufffdKeeffe (1887-1986), all had a common interest in abstraction based on natural forms. Among the paintings from this group in the exhibition are O\ufffdKeeffe\ufffds Black White and Blue (1930) and Dove\ufffds Moon (1935). Edward Hopper (1882-1967) figures prominently in the Ebsworth collection, with two oil paintings and a watercolor. Among these works is one of his most famous canvases, Chop Suey (1929). In quintessential Hopper style, the painting shows city-dwellers in the interior of an urban building\ufffdhere, a second-floor Chinese restaurant. Like many of Hopper\ufffds figures, the two women seem disconnected despite their physical proximity. The work of several Precisionist painters also appears in the Ebsworth collection. Most prominent of these artists is Charles Sheeler (1883-1965), four of whose paintings are included in the exhibition. Sheeler, both a photographer and a painter, spent six weeks at the Ford Motor Company at River Rouge near Detroit. He made a photographic portrait of the plant; he also became interested in using similar subject matter in painting. Sheeler based Classic Landscape (1931), paired here with its 1928 watercolor, gouache and graphite study, on one of his River Rouge photographs. This work demonstrates Sheeler\ufffds ability to combine precisely rendered realism with formal abstraction. The Ebsworth collection also includes the work of several important post-war artists, including Jasper Johns (b. 1930), Franz Kline (1910-1962), Jackson Pollock (1912-1956), and Robert Rauschenberg (b. 1925). Members of the New York School, both Kline and Pollock were important figures in the Abstract Expressionist movement. Johns and Rauschenberg were pivotal figures in the birth of Pop art in the 1950s. The Pop art works include paintings by Andy Warhol (1928-1987), Wayne Thiebaud (b. 1920), and a painted plaster relief by Claes Oldenberg (b. 1929). The work of these artists, representing, respectively, a Campbell\ufffds Soup Can, a Bakery Counter, and a muscular arm that recalls the Arm and Hammer symbol, used familiar imagery in an attempt to break down the hierarchy between the \"high art\" of painting and the \"low art\" of consumer goods. Sculpture is an important component of the Ebsworth collection. There are outstanding works by Alexander Calder, Gaston Lachaise (1882-1935), Elie Nadelman (1882-1946), Theodore Roszak (1907-1981), and John Storrs (1885-1956). The sculpture dovetails with the paintings a"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:36)", "body": "http://yp.washingtonpost.com/E/E/WASDC/0001/65/62/cs1.html The Collection of a Century: Home-Grown Modernists By Jo Ann Lewis Special to The Washington Post Thursday, March 2, 2000 Consider the risk: For 30 years, one by one, you collect the best American modernist paintings (1913-45) money can buy \ufffd O'Keeffes, Hoppers and Sheelers when you can get them, and Aults, Guglielmis and Slobodkinas when you can't. You figure someday you'll give them all to an unspecified museum. But first, the ultimate test \ufffd museums want to take a harder look. And the best paintings are removed from the walls of your sunken living room and cozy den and shipped off to the National Gallery of Art, where they're hung like Old Masters in six tall galleries usually reserved for such crowd-pleasers as Calder and Gauguin. Can these paintings \ufffd many still scorned as knockoffs of European avant-gardists like Picasso, Braque and Mondrian \ufffd survive such public scrutiny? Just such a collection \ufffd \"Twentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection\" \ufffd goes on view Sunday in the National Gallery East Building. And, chances are, it will change a lot of musty preconceptions. This isn't the first time St. Louis travel tycoon Barney Ebsworth's collection has been subjected to the museum test. In 1987 there was an exhibition at the St. Louis Art Museum and then one in Honolulu. But much has changed since then, including major acquisitions that expand the collection well beyond its original parameters, which covered American modernist painting from the 1913 Armory Show to World War II. The collection now encompasses such postwar masters as Gorky, Pollock, de Kooning, Johns and Rauschenberg, who finally put American art on the world map. There are also some large showpieces that Ebsworth may have felt were needed to bolster public presentation of his collection, among them Andy Warhol's \"Campbell's Soup With Can Opener\" (1962), Wayne Thiebaud's delicious, frosting-slathered \"Bakery Counter\" (1962) and David Hockney's gigantic portrait \"Henry Geldzahler and Christopher Scott\" (1968-69), which hangs in Ebsworth's office. \"I haven't abandoned American modernism; it abandoned me,\" says Ebsworth as he walks through his show, explaining his newly expanded purview. \"I can no longer find paintings from the period that are good enough. And I want only the best.\" Trim, sunned and recently retired from Intrav, the luxury travel and cruise ship business he sold to a Swiss firm for $115 million, Barney Ebsworth, 66, flew in this week from his winter digs in Honolulu to celebrate what is, in effect, his international coming-out party. For though he's known to American museum curators as a potential lender \ufffd and is now listed among the world's top 100 or 200 collectors of American art \ufffd he has, until now, kept a low public profile. And it's never been clear exactly what he owns \ufffd apart from his most famous paintings, starting with Edward Hopper's dreamy, nostalgic scene of two women seated in a Chinese restaurant, titled \"Chop Suey\" (1929). A standout even in the Whitney Museum's recent \"American Century\" show, that painting was also shown here at the National Museum of American Art in 1993, along with several other Ebsworth masterworks by Marsden Hartley, Charles Sheeler, Arthur Dove and Joseph Stella. Ebsworth is a longtime supporter and former commissioner of NMAA. But now, for the first time, the whole collection is out for the world to see and for museum curators to start dreaming and drooling over. Some of the National Gallery's dreams have already come true: Ebsworth and his wife, Pam, revealed this week that they are giving three paintings to the gallery, including Dove's darkly romantic, nature-inspired \"Moon\" (1935) and Sheeler's precisionist masterpiece \"Classic Landscape\" (1931), a sleek, machine-age painting of the Ford Motor Co.'s then-new River Rouge assembly plant near Detroit, where the Model A was built. The painting is based on a Sheeler watercolor that Ebsworth bought long ago, thinking he could never own the painting. The watercolor and the painting hang together in this show, both inspired by Sheeler's earlier photographs of the new Ford plant, which he'd been commissioned to take for advertising purposes. Ebsworth has served on the National Gallery's Trustee Council and co-chaired its Collectors Committee since 1996, and he has made other gifts to the institution, including Georgia O'Keeffe's \"Black White and Blue,\" one of his two important O'Keeffe abstract paintings. He has also donated a work by contemporary American artist Pat Steir and paid for the purchase of another for the museum. At last night's opening, he was to announce yet another gift \ufffd the huge, enigmatic painting \"Tree\" (1962), by the African American artist Bob Thompson, who died in 1966 at age 29. Scrubbed Honesty It should be said up front that there is nothing grandiose about this show or the 74 paintings and the handful of sculptures in it. Rather, the lesser-known wo"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:50)", "body": "Ebsworth gets $81 million from Intrav sale to Swiss Cynthia Vespereny Barney Ebsworth will get $81.55 million in the sale of Intrav to a Swiss firm. Intrav, the deluxe travel company Ebsworth founded in 1959, is being purchased by Kuoni Reisen Holding of Zurich, which will pay $21.32 per share for Intrav, or $115 million. Ebsworth controls 3.825 million shares, or 74.8 percent of the company. The deal means an instant bounty of $4 million for Paul Duynhouwer, Intrav's president and chief executive officer, although most of his stake in the company is in stock options that normally vest over a period of years. Duynhouwer owns 46,000 shares valued at $981,000 under the deal and holds options on 260,000 shares. They would be valued at more than $3 million after paying $2.5 million to exercise the options. An incentive stock plan provides for accelerated vesting in the event of a change in control of the company. All options will be vested by the end of September, when the deal is completed, said Intrav spokeswoman Vanessa Tegethoff. The sale means a paycheck of $1 million for Chief Financial Officer Wayne Smith II, who owns just 400 shares but has options for 100,000, valued at $982,000 after paying $1.15 million to exercise them. Richard Hefler, senior vice president of sales and marketing, holds options on 28,000 shares. He can make $60,000 by exercising options granted since 1997 on 8,000 shares. The exercise price on the remaining 20,000, issued in 1995, could not be determined. Officers of Intrav could not be reached for comment. Intrav closed at $20 July 20, far from its 52-week low of $13.50. Among company directors, William H.T. Bush will get $405,000 for his 19,000 shares. Bush, the brother of former President George Bush, is chairman of Bush, O'Donnell & Co., an investment adviser in Clayton. John Biggs Jr., chairman and chief executive officer of Union Bank, will receive $42,600 for 2,000 shares, and Robert Chapman, chairman and chief executive officer of Barry-Wehmiller Cos., will get $12,800 for 600 shares. Ebsworth, who serves as chairman, will leave the company after the sale. Intrav's management will stay, and no layoffs are expected, said Tegethoff. Intrav will remain in St. Louis, she added. Intrav, which owns the Clipper Cruise Line, caters to affluent, sophisticated travelers looking for unusual trips. Among its offerings are around-the-world trips aboard the Concorde and African safaris. The Clipper Cruise Line features small vessels, which are attractive to travelers who already have done big-ship cruises. Kuoni Reisen said it hopes to strengthen its position in the United States through the acquisition. It currently has a sales office in Atlanta. Intrav went public in 1995. It reported earnings of $666,000, or 13 cents per share, on revenue of $25.9 million for the quarter ended March 31, compared to $985,000, or 19 cents per share, on sales of $26.7 million in the year-ago period."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:53)", "body": "3/6/2000 St. Louis article: Barney Ebsworth sold his travel company, Intrav, a year ago, but he's still taking his art collection on the road. Ebsworth and his wife, Pam Ebsworth, have given the National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C., two major 20th century American paintings: Charles Sheeler's \"Classic Landscape\" and Arthur Dove's \"Moon.\" The paintings are part of the couple's collection of more than 70 works of art, which are on loan for an exhibit at the National Gallery that opens March 5."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:55)", "body": "Art Appreciation A black-tie dinner at the East Building of the National Gallery of Art celebrated the museum\ufffds most recent exhibition of artwork from one of the premier private holdings of American modernist work\ufffdthat of Barney Ebsworth, an esteemed member of the Gallery\ufffds Trustees\ufffd Council and co-chair of its Collectors Committee. Entitled \ufffdTwentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection,\ufffd the exhibition of over 70 important paintings, sculptures, and drawings features such renowned artists as Georgia O\ufffdKeeffe, Edward Hopper, and Jackson Pollock, mixed in with the works of lesser-known talents like George Ault and Francis Criss. The result is a dramatic retrospective of the evolution of American Modernism. The exhibition will be on view through June 11, when it will then travel to the Seattle Art Museum."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:57)", "body": "Charles Sheeler, Classic Landscape (1931) Oil on canvas, 25 inches x 32.25 inches. The Collection of the Mr. and Mrs. Barney Ebsworth Foundation. William Carlos Williams Classic Scene A power-house in the shape of a red brick chair 90 feet high on the seat of which sit the figures of two metal stacks--aluminum-- commanding an area of squalid shacks side by side-- from one of which buff smoke streams while under a grey sky the other remains passive today--"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:00)", "body": "Occasionally, the bidding in this sector was much more bullish. Christie's $180,000/250,000 estimate on a tiny, early Rauschenberg 'Combine' painting, for instance, was totally disregarded, mainly by St.Louis collector, Barney Ebsworth, who paid $1.3 million for it."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:01)", "body": "Twentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection A lively discussion between collector Barney Ebsworth and Franklin Kelly, curator of American and British art, on the Ebsworth collection, one of the premier private holdings of American modernist art. 11 March 2000 Sorry about the above broken gifs, I'll fix 'em later. Terry"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:04)", "body": "Barney made the 1998 ARTnews list of the top 200 art collectors in the world."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:04)", "body": "Ebsworth Collection: Twentieth-Century Art In America By: Robertson, Bruce // Other Seattle Art Museum // Other Brock, Charles Hardcover/Clothcover//Illustrated 312 pages This book showcases the extraordinary collection of modern American masterworks assembled by Barney A. Ebsworth, a St. Louis businessman. Publisher: Harry N. Abrams Inc ISBN: 0810966999 More General - Art titles: Previous | Index | Next OUR PRICE where delivery is to: USA/Canada: US$49.50 Australia/NZ: A$138.50 Other Countries:US$79.70"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:05)", "body": "Die US-Schifffahrtsgesetze k\ufffdnnten die \ufffdbernahme der Luxusreisenfirma verhindern VON NADJA SIEBENMANN Z\ufffdrich - Wenige Wochen nachdem die Fusion zwischen Kuoni und First Choice gescheitert ist, schl\ufffdgt der Schweizer Reisekonzern erneut zu: Kuoni will den hochprofitablen US-Luxusreisenverk\ufffdufer Intrav kaufen. Im Gegensatz zur gescheiterten Fusion mit First Choice hat Kuoni hier die Zustimmung der Aktion\ufffdre auf Sicher: Firmengr\ufffdnder Barney Ebsworth, der 75 Prozent der Intrav-Aktien besitzt, hat der \ufffdbernahme, die rechtlich als Fusion abgewickelt wird, zugestimmt. Die notwendige Zweidrittelmehrheit ist somit bereits \ufffdberschritten. Doch die geplante Fusion mit Intrav enth\ufffdlt eine andere Knacknuss, die ausgerechnet das Kerngesch\ufffdft des amerikanischen Luxusreisenveranstalters betrifft: das \ufffdusserst lukrative Business mit Kreuzfahrten in den Gew\ufffdssern vor den amerikanischen K\ufffdsten"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:08)", "body": "'CLIPPER' PARENT INTRAV ACQUIRED BY A SWISS COMPANY: INTRAV, the St Louis, United States (US) based parent company of Clipper Cruise Line (CCL), was sold on 16 September to a Swiss group Kuoni Travel Holding Limited of Zurich for $US115M. INTRAV was founded in 1959 and today specialises in 'top of the market' escorted tours, including private-jet adventures, African safaries and small-ship cruising as conducted by CCL in remote areas such as Antarctica. According to Kuoni, INTRAV is highly profitable and in 1998 reported a turnover of $US126m, an operating income of $US10.3M, and a net income of $6.8M. Forecasts for 1999 are said to be \"excellent\". While INTRAV is a small company by US standards, industry observers in North America believe that the entry of a European company into their market is significant. Analysts see great potential for growth in US tourism to all parts of the world over the next decade as 'baby boomers' reach retirement age. Growth is anticipated as being particularly strong for relatively small-scale, remote area, operations offering natural 'experiences' with less crowding and high 'exclusivity', something INTRAV has specialised since its establishment. INTRAV founder Barney Ebsworth established CCL in 1982 and the two operated as separate companies until late 1996, when INTRAV having gone public the preceding year, bought CCL. Clipper first marketed Antarctic tours in 1993. While CCL's Antarctic operations are not likely to change signficantly in the short term, the company says that INTRAV and it \"have a slate of innovative adventures planned for 2000 and beyond\". These could involve additional activities in Antarctica. CCL currently operates four vessels, two of whom are scheduled to operate in the Antarctic and sub-Antarctic region in 1999-2000. One, the 5,000 tonne 'Clipper Odyssey', will conduct a single voyage to the Auckland Islands in the New Zealand sub-Antarctic in February. 'Odyssey', built in 1989 as the 'Oceanic Grace', was purchased by the company earlier this year and can carry up to 128 passengers. She visited the same region last season as 'Oceanic Odyssey'. The other Clipper vessel is the 122-passenger 'Clipper Adventurer'. It is scheduled to conduct nine Antarctic voyages between 13 November and 29 February. Seven of the nine are to the Antarctic Peninsula from either Ushuaia, Argentina, or Stanley in the Falkland Islands (Malvinas), while the other two also include visits to South Georgia and the South Orkney Islands. 'Clipper Adventurer' has operated in the Antarctic since 1994 , first as the 'Alla Tarasova', and for the past two seasons under its present name. Following its purchase of the vessel in 1998, CCL spent some $US16 million in refurbishing it for voyages to all parts of the world. The Kuoni Travel Group was established in 1906 by Alfred Kuoni a Swiss citizen and in addition to INTRAV, has holdings in nine European countries, Asia and India. Kuoni appointed one of its staffers, Ian Coghlan, as Chief Executive Officer of both INTRAV and CCL. He replaces former CEO Paul Duynhouwer who will be the majority owner and CEO of New World Ship Management Company, LLC, which has been formed to operate all four Clipper vessels, including the Bahamanian-registered 'Clipper Adventurer' and 'Clipper Odyssey', which operate in Antarctic and sub-Antarctic regions. Duynhouwer has the majority stake in CCL's other two vessels which are both US registered. [ANAN-6/02]"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:10)", "body": ""}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:13)", "body": "Falcon Mummy Case Egyptian, Ptolomaic Period, c. 332-30 B.C. Wood with polychrome and gilding Gift of Barney A. Ebsworth in honor of Sam and Mary Cooke, 1992 (6896.1)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:21)", "body": "AYNE THIEBAUD AMERICAN, BORN 1920 BAKERY COUNTER, 1962 OIL ON CANVAS 139.4 x 182.6 cm (54 7/8 x 71 7/8) CREDIT: COLLECTION OF Mr. AND Mrs. BARNEY A. EBSWORTH"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:23)", "body": "Sheeler, Charles Classic Landscape 1931 Oil on canvas 24 3/4 x 32 1/4 in (63.5 x 81.9 cm) Mr and Mrs Barney A Ebsworth Foundation"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:25)", "body": "Egypt, Thebes Third Intermediate Period, 22nd Dynasty, 945-880 B.C. Mummy Cartonnage of Amen-Nestawy-Nakht, Priest of Amon, Son of a Pa-di-Amen linen, plaster, and pigments 66 inches long Gift of Mr. and Mrs. Barney A. Ebsworth for the children of St. Louis 109:1989 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amen-Nestawy-Nakht, a priest of Amun at Thebes, was given a very proper burial. His important position is reflected in the beautifully executed cartonnage, or painted plaster case, covering his linen-wrapped body. The style of painting evokes the beautiful reliefs and painted images so popular in New Kingdom tombs with elaborate coiffures, sumptuous detail, and fancy drapery. The sarcophagus of Amen-Nestawy-Nakht was discovered around 1860 in the Necropolis of Thebes, in what was then called the Valley of the Nobles. It still contains its mummy. ."}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:28)", "body": "9/14/2000 20th-CENTURY AMERICAN ART: THE EBSWORTH COLLECTION Over 70 works, mostly modernist, collected by Barney A. Ebsworth, who started out collecting 16th- and 17th-century Dutch paintings, but got discouraged when he realized that all \"the great pictures [were] gone.\" There must have been some goodies left from the postwar era; Ebsworth acquired a nifty set of works--no real masterpieces, though--by (among others) de Kooning, Sheeler, and Hockney. Through Nov 12."}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:32)", "body": ""}, {"response": 22, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:34)", "body": "Operator: Clipper Cruise Line Year Built / Last Refurbished: 1984 / 1992 Length / Tonnage: 207 / 99 Number of Cabins / Passengers: 51 / 102 Officers / Crew: American / American Operating Area: Year-round USA and Caribbean Review by Mark H. Goldberg, TravelPage.com, Cruise Editor, and Christopher E. Smith, TravelPage.com, Associate Cruise Editor Good things do come in small packages....so it follows that a good cruise can be had on a small ship....and I like to call Clipper Cruise Line's vessels the Rolls Royces of the \"explorer ship\" class....that is, the kind of ship not suited to traveling the oceans, but designed for protected coastal waterways, rivers, canals and lakes. When it comes to service, accommodation and food, Clipper is the cream of the crop. Founded in 1982 by Barney A. Ebsworth, of St. Louis, Clipper quickly became known for taking 100 passengers at a time in style to some of the most remote and least visited ports in North America....places barred to any ship over 100 tons. That's what sets Clipper apart from the others....their cruises offer a pace similar to a leisurely motor trip where you are in charge of your itinerary. Clipper always docks close in to the main attractions of any port. So without muss or fuss, wander ashore....enjoy the scenery at your pace.....and breath a sigh of relief that where ever your ship takes you, the local color won't be tainted by 6 or 700 other passengers destroying the mood. No atrium, no casino, no techno colored cocktail lounge and no ballroom await you on the NANTUCKET CLIPPER or YORKTOWN CLIPPER. But then again, those things aren't available in your car, and since a Clipper Cruise is very similar to an ultra luxe motor trip, you wouldn't want to see them here anyway. But the one lounge on board is one of the finest living rooms you could ask for. Dubbed the Observation Lounge on both vessels, it is just that....with huge always clean windows with views to both sides and forward, I cannot think of a better location to enjoy the endless scenery you will enjoy on a Clipper cruise. The sofas are comfortable and designed for you to linger a little longer, and there's plenty of room to accommodate everyone for a port lecture, cocktail party or folklore presentation. As Clipper Cruises says, \"naturalists and historians replace variety shows and bingo.\" You will find that the decor is soothing, restful, and has been finished to a high quality.....a lot of thought went into the design of the room, and as it is the one indoor venue aboard (not counting the dining room), that thoughtfulness is much appreciated. Of course, there is a small bar off to the side, and it is well stocked with a full selection of wines, beers and spirits priced between $2 and $5 per drink but people like me who never developed an appreciation for the products of the distiller's, brewer's or vintner's arts will also be happy to know that the bar also serves coffee, tea, juices and soft drinks. There's no charge for these soft drinks....I think that's a real nice Clipper touch... Ever mindful that many passengers will prefer to be outdoors on a Clipper Cruise, there is a narrow but useful wrap around promenade deck, where, during certain hours of the day, you are invited to work off some calories. So rest assured that while on board Clipper's ships, you needn't be resigned to a sedentary lifestyle. To that extent, these ships have no elevators. With so few passengers carried, you can expect a high level of quality, and because the ship is in port more than not, freshness of ingredients is always assured. The cuisine is decidedly American in nature....no, not burgers and franks, but regional cuisine of the highest order, thoughtfully presented and always delicious. Clipper chefs are graduates of America's most prestigious cooking school, the Culinary Institute. You cannot expect a never ending menu with selection after selection, but if you are at all fussy about what you eat, or your doctor has put the red light on certain food groups, Clipper, with advance notice, will be happy to accommodate you in any way they can.....but please don't ask them for pickled hummingbird wings or chocolate covered ants."}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:36)", "body": "All meals are prepared to order and served a la carte.....there is never any skimping or cost cutting in these dining rooms. By the way, your meals are served in one sitting....and because Clipper attracts a fair number of singles and often sails with less than three persons booked into rooms that can serve as triples, couples who want to eat alone can often be served at a four top doing double duty as a table for two... Since the line has an open seating policy, you might want to know that Breakfast is served at 8:00AM, Lunch at 12:30PM and dinner at 7:00...Since early-risers tend to predominate aboard these small beauties, catering crew sets up a buffet in the Lounge early every morning so anyone waking up before the dining room opens at 8:00AM can eat. A few hours later a soup and sandwich buffet in the lounge attracts any number of people who want only a light bite at midday and every fan of the grape will be glad to know that the ships' wine lists feature bottled wine priced between $15 and $30 per bottle. Would you care for an inside cabin? Sorry.....Clipper Cruises wouldn't do that to you, especially on any of their scenic trips. So even in their least expensive digs, expect an outside view with two portholes. The cabins are cozy, beautifully fitted and comfortable.....but you'll prefer your cocktail party for a dozen people be held in the lounge....these cabins aren't designed for that. But they are designed for comfortable sightseeing...that is, most cabins have large windows so even if you cannot get out of bed at the crack of dawn, you can sightsee while you head rests on your pillow. All the cabins have showers in their admittedly tiny private bathrooms, all cabins have two lower beds (sorry, honeymooners), and all some have an upper pullman for a \"fifth wheel\". There is sufficient drawer and closet space, but don't overpack....besides, the onboard atmosphere stresses comfort, not formality, so a sport coat or cocktail dress is suggested only during the Welcome Aboard and Farewell parties. Though there is no laundry on board, the cruise director will bend over backwards to get your emergency cleaning done by a shoreside laundry, time permitting of course. So back to the cabins, for a moment. What's the best one to reserve? Well, some cabins have their doors opening out to the promenade deck....others are accessed by an inside corridor. Some have views onto the deck, with others right against the ship's side. The three least expensive cabin types have beds parallel to one another, while the three highest graded cabin types offer beds in an \"L\" shape."}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:39)", "body": "My problem in deciding which cabin to select comes from the fact that all of them are good. There's no such thing as a bad location, and you are never far from anything on a Clipper. Be it my imagination or not, there seems to be a sense of extra space in the cabins fitted with the \"L\" shape beds. But because the most important feature to me on any ship is having a view, I'd be happy in any cabin here. And any of you who share my passion for collecting those nifty miniature toiletries..you know...the distinctly packaged soaps and shampoos will be pleased to find that Clipper has not forgotten to accommodate your hobby...the bathrooms are stocked with these little items and replenished as needed...Forgot your razors or other sundry item and need something while the ship is underway? No problem..the cruise director is able to help out and provide you with it. These Clipper ships are perfect extensions of a country club...ideal for people who love to golf (some Clipper cruises are themed as golf cruises and passengers always get good tee times at a nearby course when a Clipper is in port.) Anyone who ever answered to the name \"preppy\" ought to love a Clipper cruise. Most passengers are over 40, couples predominate....though cerebral 20 or 30 somethings might feel at home here too. A BIG HINT...if you choose Clipper, you might do well to leave the kids at home because the ships have no facilities to amuse them, and Clipper passengers tend not to coo over a stranger's infant. If you like bright lights, big show lounges, great production numbers, constant amusement and entertainment, these boats are not for you. A perfect Clipper passenger? ME!!!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:39)", "body": "In a few words.....Clipper itineraries are the greatest!!! Designed for the \"been there, done that\" travel set, each itinerary offers ports or in some cases stops where nature's wonders are the highlight. In the winter, cruises either seven or eleven nights will deliver you to some of the Caribbean and Central America's most exotic and off the beaten path ports. As the ship has no on board pool, passengers are invited to take a dip in the warm ocean, stepping right into the drink from the side of the ship. Snorkel gear is provided, so don't forget a swim suit. Other voyages offer days of exploration on the Orinoco River of Venezuela. The eight night Costa Rica itinerary takes all the headaches out of visiting that scenically stunning country."}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:40)", "body": "During the spring, summer and fall, one of the Clipper ships pokes around the Sea of Cortez, makes Alaska cruises that will fulfill the naturalists among you, or visits in depth the San Juan Islands and out of the way ports in British Columbia. Pleasing choo choo enthusiasts, Clipper has come up with some fun rail/cruise adventures, which include destinations as far inland as Santa Fe, New Mexico! For east coast denizens, do not despair! In a variety of cruise lengths and seasons, Clipper comprehensively visits every worth while port from Jacksonville, Florida to the Great Lakes. Whichever Clipper itinerary you select, be assured that you will given plenty of time to really get to know a region. Only on a handful of Clipper trips does the ship remain \"at sea\" all day, and when it does, the passing scenery will be fascinating. Do you have to be physically fit ..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:40)", "body": "to get the most out of your Clipper Cruise? Well, it doesn't hurt, but even couch potatoes like me can have a fantastic time. But to get the most out of the trip, you should be prepared for a fair amount of walking.....but always at your pace. Clipper Cruise Line is a nonsmoking world now. You are invited to puff away outdoors, but that's the only place on board where you can do so. We love the well scrubbed all American crew, young, eager, and thoroughly capable...You didn't ask but I'll tell you anyway...tips are pooled and shared among crew (not officers) and the Line recommends an amount of $9 per person per day...Give more if you like...these people really do work hard and sure do appreciate it! A Clipper cruise is not recommended for first timers or anyone in search of anonymity....crew and fellow passengers get to know everyone by name in no time ....most people love that. Similarly, newcomers to travel might not be able to fully appreciate the point purpose and experience of a Clipper cruise, but anyone culturally aware and thirsty for knowledge ought to really enjoy it. The brochure rates don't look cheap, but tally up the costs for a air or motor trip to some of these places...making sure you've put into your budget first or deluxe class accommodations and fine dining every meal...suddenly, a cruise on Clipper looks pretty affordable, for what you get."}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:41)", "body": "The above from http://www.cruiseserver.net/travelpage/ships/cl_nantuck.asp"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:42)", "body": "http://www.artnet.com/magazine/news/tully/tully5-20-97.asp The most exciting moment in that overbaked sale, however, was the record set for Wayne Thiebaud's delightful and pastry-rich Bakery Counter (1962). It went for a record $1.7 million (est. $650,000-$850,000) to savvy St. Louis collector Barney Ebsworth. New York dealer Allan Stone first sold it in 1962 for $3,000."}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:43)", "body": "\"There was an article about Build-A-Bear in the newspaper and Barney Ebsworth with Windsor Capital, saw it and called me, saying he wanted to invest in the company,\" she states. \"His call changed our destiny and has taken us to the next level.\" The other partners, Walnut Capital and Kansas City Equity Partners, followed. http://www.stlcommercemagazine.com/archives/april2000/cover.html"}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:44)", "body": "Ebsworth One of the minor miracles of art history is that, in the space of a relative instant, American artists moved from the back of the bus to the driver's seat of the 20th-century modernist movement. While our countrymen reacted with shock and outrage to the contemporary European paintings shown at the 1913 Armory Show in Manhattan, by the 1940s New York was the recognized center of the avant-garde. The extremely high-quality collection of Mr. and Mrs. Barney Ebsworth of St. Louis provides a splendid overview of American art throughout this vibrant evolutionary period and beyond. Twentieth-Century Art: The Ebsworth Collection is on display at the National Gallery of Art through June 11. The show features the work of artists like William Glackens, Andrew Dagsburg and Preston Dickinson who owe a manifest debt to their French counterparts. But we quickly encounter works by Americans who, while assuredly working along the same art historical continuum, forge off in new directions, developing styles we associate with them, rather than their influences. There are the oddly undulating neighborhoods of Charles Burchfield: a little scary, a little funny, a little disturbing, but absolutely unique, and the pared-down images of Arthur Dove and Georgia O'Keefe that tend to keep a foothold in visual reality, but explore the formal, abstract elements of art. Then we come to Pollack and de Kooning, New York School artists who helped establish America's creative primacy through their boldly-gestural, energetic abstract expressionist paintings, and then on to the likes of Andy Warhol, Wayne Thiebaud and Claes Oldenburg who took over with their deadpan images from popular culture. You'll see them all here, along with a few works of less renowned artists, but of equal talent. While the Ebsworths have not set out to create a comprehensive catalog of 20th-century American art, they have assembled an engaging synopsis of its highlights. http://www.jrnl.net/news/00/May/jrn0070500.html"}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:46)", "body": "http://www.newartexaminer.org/archive/junerubin.html The last two collectors we visited, Donald Bryant and Barney Ebsworth, have much in common. They are very successful businessmen, living in the exclusive Ladue section of the city, are listed in Artnews as top world collectors, and consider their collecting a kind of stewardship. Though they both are forthcoming\ufffdmuch like Donald Trump, the New York City real estate mogul\ufffdabout the art of their deals, their styles differ. Bryant is a titan. His no-nonsense approach is that of a man totally in command. He likes to talk about first options, those deals in which he comes out on top, negotiating with artist's estates, and his extreme patience in waiting (sometimes for years) for the artwork he wants. On the other hand, Ebsworth, somewhat more reticent, likes to talk about \"the one that got away.\" After passing a large Gaston Lachaise sculpture situated at the entrance of the Barney Ebsworth home, our minds still boggled from the Bryant collection, we were welcomed by our host, his wife, another art dog named Lily Langtree, and a silver tray holding mimosas. Ebsworth, who is in the travel business (he once owned Royal Cruise), after an all-too-quick introductory tour of his collection, which he described as concentrating on Modernism from 1913 to 1970, gave us free reign to explore as we would. The first and second floors were open to us, the third, verboten. Once again, we were regaled by a collection of Who's Who. Wherever we turned, paintings by O'Keefe, DeKooning, Pollock, Tooker, Birchfield, Hopper, Sheeler, Lautrec, Bierstadt, Marin, Gorky, Johns, Hockney, Thiebaud, and Warhol, to mention only a few, jumped out at us. In a kind of general consensus, we agreed to be absolutely stunned by the beauty of Joseph Stella's Tree of Life of 1919 and totally enamoured of an Alice Neel pastel of a young man sleeping. The surprise of this visit was a clandestine trip to the third floor where Ebsworth's wife Pamela (upon my pushy request) revealed Marsden Hartley's homoerotic self-portrait of the artist posing as a bleeding Christ in the Crucifixion. In wandering into a room to get a closer view of another painting, I ended up in Ebsworth's closet. It was most impressive: I counted 37 suits and 39 pairs of shoes before I stopped. Ebsworth, whose modus operandi is, \"I try to get the best and then I try to top it,\" is something of a storyteller. His observation that curators and many dealers may be looking but aren't seeing, followed by numerous stories of paintings being mis-described and hung upside down, was particularly telling. It was his off-hand mention of the Hartley painting (though one of his favorite paintings, he hides it to placate his wife who finds it much too violent) that triggered my seeking it out. The Ebsworth collection will be traveling to the National Gallery of Art and the Seattle Art Museum next year. While I was smitten with Saint Louis and would certainly love to return (my actual viewing time at the museum and exposure to the city were far too short), it was the private collections that moved me, that set me to thinking about the nature of collecting, the fervor of private collections versus the muted coldness of public ones. Visiting these private collections, each assembled by a single intellect (if not eye), and fueled by individual desire, reminded me not of the Museum of Modern Art's languishing, permanent, committee-chosen, textbook collection (which few of us writers had visited in years), or for that matter, the Whitney Museum of American Art's, but of the many smaller, more personal museums where local minds hold sway. The Memorial Art Gallery in Rochester and the McNay Art Institute in San Antonio come to mind. By virtue of the size and the nature of its collection, The Saint Louis Art Museum may fall into this category too. It is in these museums and even more so in private collections that passion is given a running chance. It is here where surprises ring out, idiosyncracies are common, perversities permitted, new names discovered, old names in unexpected styles resurface, and paintings still breathe life. Ed Rubin is a writer on the arts and National Field Director of Audits & Surveys Worldwide in New York."}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:49)", "body": "Washington University Olin School of Business Distinguished Alumni Award: Barney A. Ebsworth BSBA'56 Chairman Windsor, Inc. St. Louis, Missouri"}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:51)", "body": "http://www.kcstar.com/projects/canyonsuite/content/file/whatswrong.html Barney Ebsworth, a prominent art collector and a friend of both O'Keeffe's and Kemper's, came over from St. Louis for the dinner. Ebsworth had expected to marvel at some of O'Keeffe's first mature masterpieces. What came over him instead was a rather creepy feeling -- that these weren't O'Keeffes at all. \"I was very afraid,\" Ebsworth said. \"But it was a little late for me to say anything. They were hanging on my friend's walls.\" (KC Star article about the selling of the Canyone Suite)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:52)", "body": "http://www.tfaoi.com/newsm1/n1m223.htm The Collectors Committee Since 1975 the Collectors Committee has made possible the acquisition of one hundred eighty-nine works of art. Approximately half of the committee's acquisitions have been works by living artists. The committee was formed in 1975 under the leadership of Ruth Carter Stevenson, chairman of the Gallery's Board of Trustees from 1993-1997. It is currently chaired by Barney A. Ebsworth and Doris Fisher, both major collectors of twentieth-century art. Ebsworth, from St. Louis, is the owner of INTRAV, a travel company, and Clipper Cruise Lines. Fisher, who lives in San Francisco, is co-founder with her husband, Donald, of The Gap."}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:54)", "body": "Yet there were lots that went so far above their estimates that even the experts seemed baffled. Robert Rauschenberg's \"Untitled\" (1954), one of the artist's earliest examples of his Combine series, was estimated at $180,000 to $250,000. It sold to Barney A. Ebsworth, a St. Louis collector for $1.3 million. As dealers were leaving the sale, many said they were confused about the evening's results. \"It was too bad the estimate on the Twombly was so greedy,\" said Charles Cowles, the SoHo dealer. \"But the market is sure strong for good pictures.\" http://www.tamu.edu/mocl/picasso/news/nytimes11109.html"}, {"response": 37, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:14)", "body": "j http://law.touro.edu/2ndCircuit/Pre95/91-9250.html TRAVELLERS INTERNATIONAL, A.G. and WINDSOR, INC., Plaintiffs-Appellees, - v.- TRANS WORLD AIRLINES, INC., Defendant-Appellant. Also in 1986, Travellers and TWA both experienced changes in management. Carl Icahn completed a takeover of TWA and became its chairman and chief executive officer. Later in the year, Gerald Herrod, the founder and chairman of Travellers, decided to sell his business. After Icahn turned down the opportunity to purchase Travellers, Herrod sold the company to Windsor, Inc., a Missouri-based company owned by Barney Ebsworth The business relations between TWA and Travellers soured early in 1987. Icahn implemented an aggressive policy to control costs and increase revenue margins in an attempt to reverse TWA's fortunes. TWA considered that the fees paid to Travellers for designing the Getaway brochures, and the costs of producing and distributing them, presented a cost-cutting opportunity, and that TWA would substantially increase its margin on pre-packaged tours if it brought the Getaway program \"in house.\" In a contentious meeting held on August 5, 1987, Icahn offered to buy Travellers for the same price Ebsworth had paid in 1986, and Ebsworth refused. According to Ebsworth's testimony, Icahn then turned the conversation to Travellers' precarious reliance upon TWA as its \"only customer\" and threatened to cancel the joint venture agreement unless Ebsworth sold his company to TWA."}, {"response": 38, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:15)", "body": "SigEp Citation The Fraternity's recognition of a brother who has excelled in his career field. The Citation, an embossed scroll, is awarded to a select few alumni at each Grand Chapter Conclave. Barney A. Ebsworth (1989), Missouri Beta, Washington University-St. Louis, '57; Founder, Chairman, Intrav, international travel company. (1989), Missouri Beta, Washington University-St. Louis, '57; Founder, Chairman, Intrav, international travel company."}, {"response": 39, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:15)", "body": "The New York Times reported that Barney A. Ebsworth, the St. Louis collector, was the buyer of an early, small and fine Robert Rauschenberg at the auction for $1.3 million, way over its estimate of $180,000 to $230,000. http://www.thecityreview.com/f99c20e.html"}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:16)", "body": "Dragon Tales - September 20 - October 3, 1998: The Church ... ... a year of rehabbing, the Alec W. Ebsworth Memorial House at 7062 Emma is ready for occupancy. The house was donated by Mr. and Mrs. Barney A. Ebsworth in 1997. ..."}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:18)", "body": "AUGUST 2000 August 10, 5:30pm - LECTURE - Conversation with Barney Ebsworth: Opening Night Lecture - In conjuction with the exhibition, \"Twentieth Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection\", Mr. Ebsworth will discuss his collection with Trevor Fairbrother, Deputy Director of Art/Jon and Mary Shirley, Curator of Modern Art. Tickets: $7, students/seniors $2. Seattle Art Museum, Plestcheeff Auditorium, 100 University Ave, Seattle, WA, tel (206)654-3100. [May 00]"}, {"response": 42, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:19)", "body": "Kuoni/INTRAV Deal Finalized ST. LOUIS, September 16, 1999 \ufffd Swiss-based Kuoni Travel Holding Ltd. today finalized its $115-million acquisition of INTRAV, the U.S. luxury tour operator, and its subsidiary, Clipper Cruise Line, which are based in St. Louis. Effective immediately, Ian Coghlan will become CEO of both companies, replacing Paul H. Duynhouwer, who has acquired a majority stake in Clipper\ufffds two U.S.-flag ships, the Nantucket Clipper and the Yorktown Clipper. In addition, Duynhouwer will be the majority owner and CEO of New World Ship Management, LLC, formed to operate all four Clipper ships, including the U.S.-flag ships, as well as the Bahamian-registered Clipper Adventurer and Clipper Odyssey. Coghlan was educated in the U.K. and joined Kuoni in 1985 in the finance department. He soon moved to the tour-operations side of the business with responsibility for costings and yield control. Coghlan became deputy managing director of Kuoni U.K. in 1998, and took overall responsibility for finance, information technology, personnel and administration functions for the U.K. subsidiary, which is headed by Managing Director Peter Diethelm. The INTRAV acquisition marks Kuoni\ufffds first major entry in the U.S. market under the newly formed Strategic Business Unit (SBU) for the U.K. and North America. Peter Diethelm, member of Kuoni\ufffds group executive board and head of the SBU, remains executive chairman of Kuoni U.K., chairman of the two Kuoni Caribbean hotels, and president of INTRAV. INTRAV\ufffds founder and former chairman, Barney A. Ebsworth, 65, has retired to devote his time to his collection of art, which is considered to be among America\ufffds best. The Kuoni Travel Group, which also has holdings in nine European countries, Asia and India, is based in Zurich, where the company was established in 1906 by Alfred Kuoni, a Swiss citizen. In 1998 Kuoni won the \"World Travel Award\" as the world\ufffds leading tour operator, which is awarded based on votes cast by travel agents worldwide. More information on Kuoni can be found on their corporate Web site at http://www.kuoni.com , or on their U.K. Web site at http://www.kuoni.co.uk . INTRAV, founded in 1959, offers discerning travelers a wide array of deluxe, escorted tours, which include \"beyond-first-class\" private-jet adventures such as Around the World by Private Concorde, small-ship cruises, and African safaris. Clipper, formed in 1982, is known for it substantive worldwide itineraries aboard its comfortably appointed small ships, and has been named one of the top-ten cruise lines in the world for the past four years by the readers of Cond\ufffd Nast Traveler magazine. Both companies have a slate of innovative adventures planned for 2000 and beyond. Brochures and more information on INTRAV and Clipper\ufffds programs are available by contacting either company at 7711 Bonhomme Ave., St. Louis, Missouri 63105, INTRAV telephone: (800) 456-8100, Clipper telephone: (800) 325-0010, or on the companies\ufffd Web sites at http://www.intrav.com and http://www.clippercruise.com . # # #"}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:21)", "body": "TWENTIETH-CENTURY AMERICAN ART: The Ebsworth Collection: Mr and Mrs Barney A. Ebsworth of St. Louis, Missouri, have bought paintings and sculptures to please themselves. More than 70 works from their collection, described as \"one of the premier private holdings of American modernist art\" tell the story of the development of such art from the 1913 Armory show in New York to the 1960s. From William Glackens to Andy Warhol, via Georgia O'Keeffe, Suzy Frelinghuysen, David Hockney and Jackson Pollock. National Gallery of Art, Fourth Street at Constitution Avenue, N.W., Washington D.C. 20565 USA. Tel. +1 202 737 4215. Until 11 June. k"}, {"response": 44, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (15:58)", "body": "7/26/99 St Louis Business Journal Ebsworth gets $81 million from Intrav sale to Swiss Cynthia Vespereny Barney Ebsworth will get $81.55 million in the sale of Intrav to a Swiss firm. Intrav, the deluxe travel company Ebsworth founded in 1959, is being purchased by Kuoni Reisen Holding of Zurich, which will pay $21.32 per share for Intrav, or $115 million. Ebsworth controls 3.825 million shares, or 74.8 percent of the company. The deal means an instant bounty of $4 million for Paul Duynhouwer, Intrav's president and chief executive officer, although most of his stake in the company is in stock options that normally vest over a period of years. Duynhouwer owns 46,000 shares valued at $981,000 under the deal and holds options on 260,000 shares. They would be valued at more than $3 million after paying $2.5 million to exercise the options. An incentive stock plan provides for accelerated vesting in the event of a change in control of the company. All options will be vested by the end of September, when the deal is completed, said Intrav spokeswoman Vanessa Tegethoff. The sale means a paycheck of $1 million for Chief Financial Officer Wayne Smith II, who owns just 400 shares but has options for 100,000, valued at $982,000 after paying $1.15 million to exercise them. Richard Hefler, senior vice president of sales and marketing, holds options on 28,000 shares. He can make $60,000 by exercising options granted since 1997 on 8,000 shares. The exercise price on the remaining 20,000, issued in 1995, could not be determined. Officers of Intrav could not be reached for comment. Intrav closed at $20 July 20, far from its 52-week low of $13.50. Among company directors, William H.T. Bush will get $405,000 for his 19,000 shares. Bush, the brother of former President George Bush, is chairman of Bush, O'Donnell & Co., an investment adviser in Clayton. John Biggs Jr., chairman and chief executive officer of Union Bank, will receive $42,600 for 2,000 shares, and Robert Chapman, chairman and chief executive officer of Barry-Wehmiller Cos., will get $12,800 for 600 shares. Ebsworth, who serves as chairman, will leave the company after the sale. Intrav's management will stay, and no layoffs are expected, said Tegethoff. Intrav will remain in St. Louis, she added. Intrav, which owns the Clipper Cruise Line, caters to affluent, sophisticated travelers looking for unusual trips. Among its offerings are around-the-world trips aboard the Concorde and African safaris. The Clipper Cruise Line features small vessels, which are attractive to travelers who already have done big-ship cruises. Kuoni Reisen said it hopes to strengthen its position in the United States through the acquisition. It currently has a sales office in Atlanta. Intrav went public in 1995. It reported earnings of $666,000, or 13 cents per share, on revenue of $25.9 million for the quarter ended March 31, compared to $985,000, or 19 cents per share, on sales of $26.7 million in the year-ago period."}, {"response": 45, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:00)", "body": "Ebsworth exhibition an American beauty Collection surveys nation's outstanding modernists Thursday, August 10, 2000 By REGINA HACKETT SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER ART CRITIC A cool, silver-gray can opener lined with black shadows rises diagonally across canvas space, its blunt edge buried in the cool, silver-gray lid of a Campbell's soup can. In 1962, when Andy Warhol painted it, its impersonal banality was remarkable. Today, the opposite is true. Far from being banal, Warhol's soup cans have acquired a high art luster, and this example, in casein and pencil on linen, has a vulnerable, homemade quality. Instead of being oddities, Warhol's cans are cornerstones of the contemporary era. \"Campbell's Soup With Can Opener\" is the first thing visitors see upon entering \"Twentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection\" at the Seattle Art Museum. The exhibit comes to Seattle from Washington D.C.'s National Gallery of Art, where it opened earlier this year. Pam and Barney Ebsworth are St. Louis collectors who spend summers in Seattle and specialize in American modernism. That's a phrase that irritated Jackson Pollock, to whom it certainly applied."}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:01)", "body": "National Gallery gets 2 major works Wednesday, March 1, 2000 The Associated Press WASHINGTON -- The National Gallery of Art said Tuesday that it has received two major 20th century American paintings as gifts. One, Charles Sheeler's \"Classic Landscape,\" is a famous image of the Ford River Rouge plant near Detroit. The other, Arthur Dove's \"Moon,\" illustrates the painter's role as a pioneer of abstract art drawn from nature. They are part of the collection of Mrs. and Mrs. Barney Ebsworth of St. Louis that goes on show at the gallery Sunday. The collection will be on view through June 11 at the gallery and Aug. 10 through Nov. 12 at the Seattle Art Museum. The Ebsworth collection covers American art since 1913 -- paintings, sculpture, and drawings. It includes works from such leading figures as Georgia O'Keeffe, Alexander Calder, Andy Warhol, and Edward Hopper. Ebsworth, a wealthy businessman who has retired from the travel industry, has been collecting art for 30 years. He is a member of the gallery's Trustees' Council. The Ebsworths have given the gallery two other works in the past, and have made a partial and promised gift of another, by O'Keeffe. http://www.bergenrecord.com/morenews/art01200003018.htm"}, {"response": 47, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:06)", "body": "Warhol's soup can among American work on show at National Gallery By Carl Hartman Associated Press WASHINGTON -- Andy Warhol painted dozens of Campbell's soup cans, but the one included in a National Gallery of Art show that opens Sunday may be unique: A can opener sticks boldly out the top. It belongs to the collection of Mr. and Mrs. Barney Ebsworth. He is a retired St. Louis businessman, who for the past 30 years has collected American art from the early 20th century to 1969. Jeffrey Weiss, the gallery's curator of modern and contemporary art, sees the can opener as important. \"Part of the point of that is that Warhol sometimes was able to bring a certain kind of emotional impact to these images that seem otherwise completely neutral and deadpan and blank,\" Weiss said in an interview. \"He's got this kind of happy consumer image, but the can opener opening it makes it feel like it's being invaded or violated in a way.\" Some of Warhol's soup cans are actual size: one series of 32, Weiss said, illustrates each of the Campbell varieties -- but Warhol had no commercial connection with Campbell's. The 32 paintings are designed to be mounted one after another on one wall. Big ones like the six-foot tall painting in the Ebsworth collection are rare. Weiss said he knows of just four or five of them. Ebsworth is giving the gallery two of the more than 70 works being shown. He's keeping the Warhol, which has been exhibited in Britain, France, Italy, Germany and the United States. The gifts are Charles Scheeler's \"Classic Landscape,\" a view of the Ford Motor Co.'s River Rouge plant near Detroit, an up-to-the-minute industrial site when it was painted in 1927. The other is \"Moon\" by Arthur Dove, typical of his work derived from nature. Dove was a pioneer of abstract paintings, producing them before many European artists. Ebsworth's collection harks back to 1913, the landmark year when a show at New York's Lexington Avenue Armory gave the American art world its first big taste of work by Pablo Picasso and other artists working in France. Except for Briton David Hockney, the current show is devoted entirely to Americans, some heavily influenced by Paris, others determinedly independent. There's Edward Hopper's \"Chop Suey,\" two flappers from the 1920s at a table in a Chinese restaurant; major work by Georgia O'Keeffe, marking her shift from the Atlantic Coast to the colors and forms of New Mexico; and one by Jackson Pollock, the man some called \"Jack the Dripper\" because of his special technique. Pollack has said the most important paintings of the last 100 years had been done in France, and there couldn't be such a thing as isolated American painting. One of the earliest paintings in the show is William Glackens' \"Cafe Lafayette,\" which looks much like the work of Pierre Renoir. One of the most recent is by Hockney, who has lived in the United States for decades and is closely identified with southern California. ------ \"Twentieth Century American Art - The Ebsworth Collection\" will be at the National Gallery through June 11. Admission is free. It will be on view at the Seattle Art Museum, Aug. 10 through Nov. 12. from http://www.virtualtexan.com/news/doc/1047/1:ENTNEWS64/1:ENTNEWS640310100.html"}, {"response": 48, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:07)", "body": "Little-known delight A trip to the capital's prestigious National Gallery of Art is very much in order for a quite wonderful exhibition: The little known but delightful collection of 20th Century American art belonging to Mr. and Mrs. Barney Ebsworth of St. Louis. Up through June 11, it includes such cherished pieces as Edward Hopper's \"Chop Suey\" and Georgia O'Keeffe's \"Sunrise,\" as well as Charles Sheeler's marvelous \"Landscape\" painting of Ford's River Rouge plant in Michigan, Wayne Thiebaud's tasty pastry painting \"Bakery Counter\" and O. Lous Guglielmi's surrealist deconstruction of the Brooklyn Bridge, \"Mental Geography.\" The Gallery is at 4th St. and Constitution Ave., N.W.; phone is 202-737-4215. http://cgi.chicago.tribune.com/travel/bits-bytes/story/0%2C1720%2C0003260099%2C00.html"}, {"response": 49, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:07)", "body": "http://ipomaven.123jump.com/rep/t/trav.php3"}, {"response": 50, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:11)", "body": "Outstanding among the many gifts to the collections were . . .a partial gift of a Georgia O\ufffdKeeffe painting, Black, White, and Blue from Barney Ebsworth. http://newsdesk.si.edu/annual-reports/smithsonian-year-1999-in-html/08aor.doc/odyframe.htm Smithsonian"}, {"response": 51, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:28)", "body": "They simply must have a Thomas Paquette, and one day they all shall. Of that I have little doubt. It is irrevelant that I know him through cyber-mail and his website - he is worthy on many levels and is well represented in collections thoughout the world. Barney is no collector if he has't at least one. I'd select several of his many styles of painting as it has evolved. *Sigh* If only I didn't have to eat..."}, {"response": 52, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (19:41)", "body": "What is the Thomas Paquette website, do you have a url, Marica?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (19:45)", "body": "I'm not sure how old Barney was when this picture was taken, it looks like around when he was twenty. He graduated from Mizzou, I think, in '59 and I graduated from U of I in '69. I have a few family pictures that I got from my sister when mom passed away last year. This is one of them."}, {"response": 54, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (21:12)", "body": "thanks for linking this up with collecting, terry!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (21:14)", "body": "Sure, it qualifies!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (23:01)", "body": "Sheesh, I thought this was in Art Conference. Sorry for my out-of-place post"}, {"response": 57, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (23:10)", "body": "It is the art conference, it's linked to collecting."}, {"response": 58, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 18, 2001 (13:54)", "body": "This topic is linked to art, travel, business and collecting which are all relevant to the topic. Some pictures of Barney's (and my) family from the early days in St. Louis. Here's our whole family (well mostly). Top row. Left to Right. Grandpa Ed Frauenthal. Uncle Alec Ebsworth (Barney's Dad) Middle row: Uncle Harold King and wife Ann (my mom's sister), Aunt Lou, Grandma Frauenthal, Aunt Bern, Aunt Bernice (Barney's mom). Front Row: Alice Ann (my sister), me?, Cousin Carol King, my mom Virginia Walhus holding Corky King, and Barney's twin sister Muriel. Maybe Barney took this picture? I'm thinking that this may have been at the granparents house on Wydown or over at Uncle Alec and Aunt Bern's. I'm not sure."}, {"response": 59, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 18, 2001 (14:02)", "body": "The above picture shows the Ebsworths, Barney in the front and Muriel in back in white with the reddish shirt (just behind Barney). The white haired gentleman in the back with glasses holding a glass is Uncle Alec, Barney's dad and that's Aunt Bern, Barney's mom on the right. Looks like Aunt Lou peeking out. I'm not sure who the two little girls are in the picture, maybe Muriel's children."}, {"response": 60, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 18, 2001 (14:08)", "body": "Our family loved to play scrabble. In the back, that's grandma Frauenthal, Gonnie, me and my Grandpa (Barney's Uncle Ed), you can barely make them out but that's my sister Alice and my mom (Barney's Aunt Ginny) in the front. I wonder who's birthday it was? I see Happy Birthday letters laid out on the table. We had great times at these scrabble games, it was moms, grandma and grandpa's favorite game."}, {"response": 61, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 18, 2001 (14:11)", "body": "Here's one more for now, I've got more! This is Alice Ann (my sister), Gonnie, and Cousin Carol King. Nice shot of them."}, {"response": 62, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 18, 2001 (17:22)", "body": "Now that I take a second look, it looks more like we might be playing bingo or monopoly."}, {"response": 63, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Aug 18, 2001 (22:57)", "body": "It is really neat to see your pictures. I remember you and your wagon. Now we get to see Terry as a growing intellectual. I think I would have gotten on with you very well. No one will play Scrabble nor Trivial Pursuit with me!!! *Sigh* Thanks for sharing your illustrious family!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 19, 2001 (18:32)", "body": "Charles Demuth (1883-1935) Apples c. 1925, watercolor on paper 11 3/4 by 18 in. Sheldon Memorial Art Gallery and Sculpture Garden, University of Nebraska-Lincoln, F. M. Hall Collection 1944.H-244 \"Demuth above all was a master watercolorist for whom line, edge, and the nuance of tone meant most. The influence of Rodin is clear in the scribbled line and loose washes of this early work. Like his close friend [John] Marin, Demuth instinctively felt at home with watercolor and could absorb a wide variety of influences (including Marin's) while finding his own way.\"2 Demuth's oeuvre has been separated into three categories: one branch involving the human figure in the cabaret and vaudeville theater, and because the artist was an intellectual and an avid reader, \"intensely real\" illustrations of the characters of novels and stories. A second branch of his art emerged in Bermuda (1916-17) where he made a series of landscapes, representing a purely intellectual approach to the subject using the Cubist device of lines and planes. This method of painting was continued later in his career in architectural subjects. A third major category of the artist's work, the flower and still-life paintings (such as Apples, in this exhibition), seems to combine the two phases. Cubist techniques were utilized in the still-lifes in which \"the progression of color intervals follow the firmly penciled linear contour of form.\"3 http://sheldon.unl.edu/HTML/ARTIST/Demuth_C/TO.html"}, {"response": 65, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 22, 2001 (21:59)", "body": "Very interesting, Terry! You indeed have an illustrious family, and I love seeing those old-time photos of a bygone time."}, {"response": 66, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Aug 22, 2001 (22:59)", "body": "Terry, did you notice how Autumn called them Old Time Photographs? *sigh* so much for respect for elders from the kids of Spring! *;)"}, {"response": 67, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug 22, 2001 (23:35)", "body": "Whoa, whoa. Elders? I'm still just a kid."}, {"response": 68, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Aug 23, 2001 (00:52)", "body": "Me too!!!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 26, 2001 (20:53)", "body": "Aw, they just remind me of the photos we have in our photo albums from when we were kids! Dorky clothes and glasses are what always stand out."}, {"response": 70, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  8, 2001 (00:24)", "body": "Had a brief talk with Barney on the phone, he had open heart surgery about two weeks ago but he's doing well. He's been exercising. He has a new home under construction in Washington. I invited him down for a visit to our place next week and he was going to check with Pam about coming down. I'm hoping he can make it before he heads off to Hawaii for the Winter."}, {"response": 71, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  8, 2001 (00:30)", "body": "WWF Board to Congress: Keep Defense Bill Focused on Defense U.S. Newswire 25 Sep 15:45 WWF Board to Congress: No Time for Partisanship; Keep the Defense Bill Focused on Defense To: National Desk Contact: Michael Ross of the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), 202-778-9565 Email: michael.ross@wwfus.org Web site: www.worldwildlife.org WASHINGTON, Sept. 25 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The Board of Directors of the World Wildlife Fund, at its annual meeting in Washington D.C., today, unanimously approved the following statement: \"Recognizing the gravity of the national security situation affecting the United States and all Americans, we applaud the effort of President Bush and the Congress to mobilize our national response to the terrible events of September 11. \"In this time of national need, we should put aside unrelated and divisive issues and focus on strengthening our national security and protecting the safety of all Americans. Now is the time for unity, not the pursuit of narrow ends. \"We therefore express dismay at the efforts of some to rush to Senate approval a complex package of energy legislation that has not yet been considered by the appropriate committees of the Senate. This legislation (H.R. 4), approved in the House earlier in the summer, has been proposed as an amendment to the Defense Authorization bill currently under discussion in the Senate. \"The terrorist attacks our nation has suffered should not be used to prematurely cut off debate on the many difficult energy policy issues raised by H.R. 4. Increasing subsidies to U.S. energy companies will not increase our safety nor will relaxing environmental rules or drilling the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. However, these and other provisions of H.R. 4, would, if enacted, result in unnecessary environmental damage to our nation. \"As a nation, we hold only 3 percent of the world's reserves of oil, yet we consume almost 25 percent of the world's daily production. As long as this is the case, we will remain dependent on world oil markets, and we will pay the world price for oil, whether it is produced domestically or abroad. The safest and fastest way to increase our energy security is to improve the energy efficiency of our cars, trucks, homes, factories, and offices, and to increase the role of renewable non-petroleum sources of energy in our economy. \"We urge the Senate to consider carefully the long-term implications of these energy policy issues as part of an orderly process of the consideration of energy matters, rather than in midst of the present crisis.\" --- The following is a list of the World Wildlife Fund Board of Directors: The Honorable Bruce E. Babbitt, Mr. Edward P. Bass, Mr. Richard C. Blum, Ms. Julia Carabias, Mr. David Cole, Dr. Jared M. Diamond, Mrs. Barney A. Ebsworth (Pamela) , Mr. Marshall Field, Ing. Jose Maria Figueres, Mrs. John H. Foster (Lynn), Ms. Kathryn Fuller (President), Mr. William T. Lake, Mr. Melvin B. Lane, Mr. Gary Larson, Ms. Shelly Lazarus, Mr. Hunter Lewis, Mrs. John F. Mars (Adrienne) (Secretary), Ms. Mora McLean, Ms. Leslie A. Miller, Mr. Paul F. Miller, Jr. (Treasurer), The Honorable Wendell Mottley, Dr. John C. Ogden, The Honorable Hazel O'Leary, Dr. Gordon Orians, Ms. Anne Pattee, The Honorable William K. Reilly (Chairman), Dr. Alison F. Richard, Mr. Gerald E. Rupp, Mr. Alan Seelenfreund, Mr. Roque Sevilla, Mrs. Constantine Sidamon-Eristoff (Anne), Ms. Linda Stone, Mr. George H. Taber, Dr. John Terborgh, Mr. Thomas Tusher, Mr. Rodney B. Wagner, Mr. Robert H. Waterman, Jr., Mr. Stephen Wolf, Mr. Jaime Augusto Zobel de Ayala II, The Honorable Russell E. Train (Chairman Emeritus), Mr. Joseph Cullman 3rd, (Honorary Director) KEYWORDS: ENERGY POLICY, DEFENSE POLICY, POLICY, POLITICAL -0- /U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/ 09/25 15:45 Copyright 2001, U.S. Newswire"}, {"response": 72, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Nov  8, 2001 (00:48)", "body": "***Hawaii for the winter*** Do tell?! Maui, I'll bet. Too bad he does not like active volcanoes and cool climates. I wish him a speedy recovery and a long and healthy life!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  8, 2001 (06:40)", "body": "Honolulu, actually. at the very Southernmost tip. about 225 miles from Hilo. Kaalawai Beach is nearby. Waikiki just to the North and a bit West. I believe this may be the Diamond Head area, but I've never been to Hawaii. There's a Diamond Head road that runs along the coast nearby."}, {"response": 74, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Nov  8, 2001 (21:10)", "body": "check out those pics!!!"}, {"response": 75, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Dec 13, 2001 (17:06)", "body": "the top aerial photo is Diamondhead on Oahu at the east end of Honolulu and Waikiki Beach. Inside those little building is Berkheimer Tunnel from whence issues all of our state-wide civil defense messages. Driving though the crater is not very exciting becuase it is so shallow and you cannot see outside for some sense of where you are. In the photo, to the left of Diamondhead is a grassy park with a bandshell in it. That's where the great rock concerts are held. The little buildings near it are Kapiolani Park Zoo. art gallery Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 47, "subject": "clothing as art", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 19, 2001 (10:38)", "body": "This is a t shirt mandala designed by Richard Evans. I'm searching for more examples of clothing as art. Can you find any and post them here? art gallery Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 48, "subject": "pointillism", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 49, "subject": "standing by the rags", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 22, 2002 (14:36)", "body": "From Roger Lipsey's _An Art of Our Own - the Spiritual in Twentieth Century Art_: \"A fourth feature of some markets, including the market for contem- porary art, is that the value of new products can be defined and pro- moted subjectively- without doing harm. In these markets, one cannot really trust words. There may be relatively objective standards by which the quality of art can be judged, but buyers are not so often well-versed in applying them, and in any case one can't always be sure. Fortunately, the products are safe no matter how poorly designed. Works of art are not elevators; if one falls, no harm. A great empty ply-wood box can be described as austere, vigorously antisublime, starkly beautiful--and so on. The emperor may have no clothes, but what if he has an excellent figure? The merchant's job is to test his market and to sell. He makes no mistake to extol the virtues of his inventory in glowing terms. Objective measurement can be left to posterity.\""}, {"response": 2, "author": "admin", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 2003 (09:41)", "body": "Dunbier on Fine Art Valuation by Roger Dunbier I grew up in an artist's studio. My father, Augustus Dunbier, took up painting in 1907 and continued in that endeavor for sixty-five years, principally in Omaha, Nebraska. He was born on a central Nebraska farm about ten years after his father turned over the prairie grass for the first time. My father's formal art education was highlighted by seven years at the Royal Art Academy, Dusseldorf. He also attended the Chicago Art Institute where he became a close friend of Walter Ufer, who, in 1919, persuaded my father to come to Taos, something he then did almost every summer. As a child I traveled with my father and mother on summer field painting trips to both coasts, the Southwest and Mexico. I witnessed hundreds of paintings in the making and heard seemingly endless discussion about techniques and quality. Later I spent a good deal of time with my parents in Europe, where art museums were always on the itinerary. I have childhood memories of visiting Taos artists in their studios there, artists such as Leon Gaspard, Joseph Henry Sharp, and I. Eanger Couse. To me at that time, these were just old men who were friends of my father. It was my good fortune to obtain a post-graduate Marshall Scholarship to Oxford University in England, where I spent the better part of seven years obtaining three degrees including the doctorate. These degrees were in the fields of geography and economics--I inherited only minimal amounts of my father's artistic talents! My Ph D dissertation, now a published book, was on the Sonoran Desert. During the late 1950s and early 1960s, I became interested in the computer, particularly in its ability to store and manipulate huge amounts of data. In 1963, I moved to Arizona, and I have continued to live there with the exception of a few years in Nebraska where I taught at the University of Nebraska-Omaha and in southern California where I was a professor of geography at the University of California-Irvine. My first hands-on experience with computers was in 1963 while employed by a major bank research department. In the years that followed, as an independent researcher, I developed several applications in the area of computerized mapping and real estate values. With a colleague, I created the first computerized multiple listing program--its descendant now in use across the country. Currently I live with my wife, Lonnie, in Scottsdale, Arizona, and both of us are employed full time in the business of American fine art. Fifteen years ago, I had an idea. It was 1982, and even though I had grown up in the art business, I had never given any concentrated thought to what constituted monetary value in fine art beyond the most apparent vagaries, realities and clich\ufffds of supply and demand. In that year, it became apparent to me that in this country there existed nothing remotely resembling a comprehensive reliable informational system of any kind wherein independent unbiased estimates of value could be established. For art prices, reliance upon indexes of art auction-prices-realized in book forms was usually incremented by telephone calls to experts who would provide anecdotal data. All but a few living artist's prices were in the main established through these two methods. Artists that were and are principally resident in mid-continent America seldom had works in major auction houses. Numerous very good early day painters almost never had paintings come up for sale at auction. For these, guess-work was too much the order of the day. Something should be done. No comprehensive system of inter-artist comparability existed. Very little or usually no use was made of comparables, so indispensable to real estate appraisal. Museum and gallery catalogues, coffee table and art reference books as well as monographs upon which artist name values are grounded were not taken into measured calculation at all. In the year 1982, no system in the true sense of that word existed, even in an embryonic form. It was then that I decided to do something about this circumstance. One of the first things I did was acquire a skillful programmer, Charles Lefebvre, who has been with me from this earliest time. Now, the solution did not arrive all at once but evolved over the first ten years or so. The problems that presented themselves lay in several areas: How to separate the objective and measurable from subjective, aesthetic preferences. How to isolate the artists' \"name values\" or level of recognition from the complex of elements found in medium, size, choice of subject, etc. How to build upon these elements to provide a consistently valid name-value-number to be used in calculating the price of any picture by that painter under scrutiny. How to further verify this number by comparison with other painters in the database. From this evolved our now indispensable concept of RANKING artists relative to each other and, totally unique to us, COMPARABLES in the art marketplace. How t"}]}, {"num": 5, "subject": "art on the web", "response_count": 109, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (09:02)", "body": "The full text of this article was posted on nettime today; I'm clipping it in the interest of respecting copyright, but am sorry to say I don't have the full URL. From http://www.nytimes.com : Leading Art Site Suspended By MATTHEW MIRAPAUL The Ada'web Web site, one of the most dynamic destinations for original Web-based art, is being suspended. Benjamin Weil, the co-founder of Ada'web, announced on Monday in an e-mail message that Digital City Inc., the site's publisher, had canceled its financing and that Ada'web would cease producing new artistic content. Weil is now seeking a permanent home for its archives so that its material can remain accessible. In a telephone interview on Monday afternoon, Weil (pronounced \"vial\") said the five Ada'web employees were expected to leave their Manhattan office by the end of the week. \"It's not the most rejoicing news,\" Weil said. \"However, this was more or less doomed to happen. Obviously, the compatibility between what Digital City is planning to do on the Web and what we've been doing is not clear. When companies restructure and refine their focus, what is not within that beam of focus is going to be taken away.\" Since it was conceived in late 1994, Ada'web has become one of the premier destinations for online creativity. Ultimately, it presented about 15 Web-specific projects by such high-profile contributors as the conceptual artist Lawrence Weiner. The site's first offering, launched officially in May 1995, was Jenny Holzer's \"Please Change Beliefs.\" In contrast, Digital City is assembling a nationwide network of online guides to metropolitan areas, including Digital City New York. [snip]"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (09:04)", "body": "for collaborative net/web art: http://www.sito.org"}, {"response": 3, "author": "doug", "date": "Thu, Mar  5, 1998 (17:34)", "body": ""}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (07:04)", "body": "I remembered that painting, it wasn't called the Jungle it was the \"Dream\" by Rousseau. The Dream by Rousseau 1910 (160 Kb); Oil on canvas, 6' 8 1/2\" x 9' 9 1/2\"; The Museum of Modern Art, New York You might just want to click on the image to get an enlargement!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (22:42)", "body": "Thanks for sharing that, Terry, I'd never seen that painting before."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (00:51)", "body": "Really, wow. I had seen it so many times though high school and in art history class at U of I. Rousseau was impoverished and ridiculed in his day, and Picasso threw sort of a mocking celebration for him in 1908. I feel like he was falsely railed at in his day. I find The Dream to be compelling and imaginative."}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (01:43)", "body": "Yes, Terry, I know the painting. The detail in it is astonishing. Henri Rousseau was a wonderful painter, and did these works around the turn of the century, Autumn. Another great 'jungly' painting by him I saw in the Orsay museum, Paris last year. It's called THE SNAKE CHARMER. But to me his most poignant work is WAR."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (07:47)", "body": "From the Paris, Web Museum: Rousseau, Henri, known as Le Douanier Rousseau (1844-1910). French painter, the most celebrated of na\ufffdve artists. His nickname refers to the job he held with the Paris Customs Office (1871-93), although he never actually rose to the rank of `Douanier' (Customs Officer). Before this he had served in the army, and he later claimed to have seen service in Mexico, but this story seems to be a product of his imagination. He took up painting as a hobby and accepted early retirement in 1893 so he could devote himself to art. His character was extraordinarily ingenuous and he suffered much ridicule (although he sometimes interpreted sarcastic remarks literally and took them as praise) as well as enduring great poverty. However, his faith in his own abilities never wavered. He tried to paint in the academic manner of such traditionalist artists as Bouguereau and G\ufffdr\ufffdme, but it was the innocence and charm of his work that won him the admiration of the avant-garde: in 1908 Picasso gave a banquet, half serious half burlesque, in his honor. Rousseau is now best known for his jungle scenes, the first of which is Surprised! (Tropical Storm with a Tiger) (National Gallery, London, 1891) and the last The Dream (MOMA, New York, 1910). These two paintings are works of great imaginative power, in which he showed his extraordinary ability to retain the utter freshness of his vision even when working on a large scale and with loving attention to detail. He claimed such scenes were inspired by his experiences in Mexico, but in fact his sources were illustrated books and visits to the zoo and botanical gardens in Paris. His other work ranges from the jaunty humor of The Football Players (Philadelphia Museum of Art, 1908) to the mesmeric, eerie beauty of The Sleeping Gypsy (MOMA, 1897). Rousseau was buried in a pauper's grave, but his greatness began to be widely acknowledged soon after his death."}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (08:33)", "body": "Do you have good art museums in Texas, Terry? Here in Z\ufffdrich I tend to visit galleries rather than the museum, which seems to consist mainly of great painters' cast-offs. While these are interesting, they don't exactly inspire me."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (09:04)", "body": "We're sadly lacking for art museums in Austin, and I don't know about Houston, Dallas and San Antonio. I grew up with a great art museum in St. Louis."}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (10:57)", "body": "I see. Who did they exhibit there?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (21:57)", "body": "From their website http://www.slam.org \"The Museum's collection of modern art has become one of the largest and most distinguished components of its holdings. It includes many outstanding examples of German Expressionist art, its core being 41 paintings by Max Beckmann, one of the century's greatest masters. The collection also includes works by early modern masters such as Paul C\ufffdzanne, Edgar Degas, Paul Gauguin, Wassily Kandinsky, Henri Matisse, Amedeo Modigliani, Claude Monet, Pablo Picasso, and Vincent van Gogh. More recent work by American and European artists is represented by Louise Bourgeois, Chuck Close, Philip Guston, Jenny Holzer, Ellsworth Kelly, Anselm Kiefer, Franz Kline, Roy Lichtenstein, Brice Marden, Joan Mitchell, Henry Moore, Claes Oldenburg, Martin Puryear, Gerhard Richter, Mark Rothko, and Frank Stella.\" It's a very complete museum with a great American art collection, African and ancient artifacts, Asian, Islamic, Oceanic, and European art."}, {"response": 15, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (22:27)", "body": ""}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (00:19)", "body": ""}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (02:09)", "body": ""}, {"response": 18, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (02:15)", "body": "for fantasy art, visit http://www.elfwood.com/"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (18:37)", "body": "Tres cool, according to Bruce Sterling: Look at http://www.oasinet.com/postmedia/art/mori.html and the very cool http://www.artindex.com/openhouse/music.htm"}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (02:06)", "body": "Would Bruce Sterling not like to join us here, Terry?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (08:29)", "body": "I think he has a heavy schedule. Jetting to Paris, writing books, attending conferences, writing artcles for Wired, etc. It would be near impossible to get Bruce over here with his schedule. And he has a wife and two kids so I just don't see how he could squeeze anything else in, he knows us though and he lives in Austin."}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (09:29)", "body": "Oh!! Thought he was just a friend of yours - didn't know he was a celebrity; I'm never up to date with that stuff. I'll have a look at his site as soon as I have a bit more time myself - this week everything is just crazy; the exhibition starts tomorrow."}, {"response": 23, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (02:46)", "body": "a must to check out... http://www.westsound.com/ptmudge/art.htm"}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (04:47)", "body": "Very useful page - thank you."}, {"response": 25, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (14:29)", "body": "here's another one for you, Riette... definately check this one out http://www.artcafe.net/artcenter"}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (14:56)", "body": ""}, {"response": 27, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (15:04)", "body": ""}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (02:10)", "body": ""}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (17:15)", "body": "If you do look, be sure to use http://www.spring.net/search It's our rad, new search page."}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (01:42)", "body": "Oh, COOL, Terry! Who's on a roll now?!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (18:05)", "body": "We're edgy and we're rollin'"}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (02:29)", "body": "like Jack and Jill down the hill!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "isis", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (22:13)", "body": "hey didn't anyone warn jack and jill about that steep hill......"}, {"response": 34, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (00:33)", "body": "yeah, but they didn't listen... imagine that!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (02:07)", "body": "Hills are made for rollin'...."}, {"response": 36, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (02:14)", "body": "I thought the hills had eyes and were alive with the sound of music..."}, {"response": 37, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (02:18)", "body": ""}, {"response": 38, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (02:21)", "body": ""}, {"response": 39, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (02:31)", "body": ""}, {"response": 40, "author": "isis", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (22:36)", "body": "I wanna rock and roll all night,,,and party everyday....nice song huh kitchen manager.....remember it,,,i do....."}, {"response": 41, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:13)", "body": "and do you still remember how?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (01:50)", "body": "boy...."}, {"response": 43, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (02:32)", "body": "girl..."}, {"response": 44, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (04:33)", "body": "You mean you can tell??"}, {"response": 45, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (04:52)", "body": "if I search in the right spots..."}, {"response": 46, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (06:04)", "body": "Is that a promise? And what't that neat line you posted there?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (06:04)", "body": "Do you have neat buttons too?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (06:07)", "body": ""}, {"response": 49, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (06:28)", "body": ""}, {"response": 50, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (06:38)", "body": "that would be correct"}, {"response": 51, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (06:59)", "body": "Oh, you poor thing. I feel so sorry for you when you have these long, sleepless nights. I sleep well at the moment, but I sure know what it's like not to be able to sleep, and having no-one to keep you company."}, {"response": 52, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (07:03)", "body": "but, you are..."}, {"response": 53, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (11:00)", "body": "only sporadically, and whining in your ears"}, {"response": 54, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (02:07)", "body": "The art conf background could be a bit more muted. What do you think?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (03:11)", "body": "NO! ha-ha! Terry, I hate pastels, that's all. I'd rather design something that'll read easier if it bothers you - but pleeeeeeeze don't take away the colours. Shall I do something else?"}, {"response": 56, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (03:22)", "body": "No, just playing devils advocate."}, {"response": 57, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (03:44)", "body": "You mean, pushing my buttons. Just careful, 'cos if you push the wrong one, you might hit my G-spot! But seriously, I could make it less colours if you guys find it difficult to read. Just don't want it dimmed."}, {"response": 58, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (18:17)", "body": "Sounds like fun."}, {"response": 59, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (02:12)", "body": ""}, {"response": 60, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (12:13)", "body": "no problem, working on the rest... I'll try and get the new art background up tomorrow..."}, {"response": 61, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (13:55)", "body": "Oh, that's okay, Wer. Please don't push yourself - you know what a kind and patient mistress I am... Sorry about all the bother with that background - people will probably hate it, and then I've bothered you for nothing!!"}, {"response": 62, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (14:36)", "body": "de nada...for the buttons I mentioned earlier, go to http://www.spring.net/~spew/b/ then come back and tells me what you think..."}, {"response": 63, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (16:16)", "body": "i likes them. was working on some for poetry, myself...."}, {"response": 64, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (02:11)", "body": "ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS, Wer!!!! PLEEZE give us buttons like that!!!! Mega mega cool! $hit, it's going to be fun designing the virtual gallery with you there!!!! I'm totally excited! The buttons will go brilliantly witht his background though, it's almost a shame to change it! Do you think we could try the new background for a couple of days, and if it doesn't look nice, change back?"}, {"response": 65, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (09:51)", "body": "sure..."}, {"response": 66, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (10:03)", "body": "thank you. And good morning!!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (10:54)", "body": "good morning...what do you think?"}, {"response": 68, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (14:01)", "body": "Not sure. Seems almost bleak compared to the other background. But it is easier to read on. What do you think?"}, {"response": 69, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (16:56)", "body": "not my conf..."}, {"response": 70, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (21:31)", "body": "may i suggest deepening the original colors a tad? tho, i luv the new background, wer. i'm trying to come up with something dreamy but down to earth for poetry but there's just not enough time in the day. oh, got a question....how does one make a background? i've got microsoft image composer and it's great but i tried to design a background and it ended up being tiled on my test page. how do i know if a design is big enough to be used as a background without repeating itself like a tile?"}, {"response": 71, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (00:18)", "body": "you can't because different people have different screen resolutions...when I can refind the dimensions for 640 x 480, I'll post them up in here..."}, {"response": 72, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (01:50)", "body": "I have no idea how to deepen colours, Wolf. You are speaking to the Spring Computing Moron, remember!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (02:53)", "body": "I'll give it a shot and see what happens..."}, {"response": 74, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (11:50)", "body": "Thanks, Wer!! What would I have done without you?"}, {"response": 75, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Sep 12, 1998 (13:37)", "body": "another museum list http://212.net/museums/index.htm"}, {"response": 76, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 12, 1998 (17:00)", "body": "Got that one!!! WER, THE BACKGROUND!!!!! Please! I promise I'll not attempt another change soon - just bring the old one back!!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (01:06)", "body": "um, okay..."}, {"response": 78, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (01:49)", "body": "WER!!!! Where is it??? I can't read on this, and am seriously getting eye-fu\ufffdked!"}, {"response": 79, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (08:11)", "body": "this is the old background...don't know what you're talking about now..."}, {"response": 80, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (14:12)", "body": "Seriously?!?! Why didn't anyone tell me it was so bad????? I HATE it now! Going to make another."}, {"response": 81, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 21, 1998 (13:38)", "body": "5. BOOKMARKS ============================================================ http://artnetweb.com/iola Over There http://www.overthere.com.au/ Diane Caney's creative, professional and academic identity. BowieNet http://www.DavidBowie.com/ David Bowie, Internet Service Provider. site http://www.sirius.com/~schizo/index.htm Architectural researcher. ArtLex http://www.artlex.com/ Dictionary of visual art. Art Station http://www.artstation.co.uk An art site by Iris & Ami Ben David that provokes questions about the influence of the Internet on art and art exhibition. Transnacionala http://www.kud-fp.si/trans/ Eastern European artists discover America -- sort of. CraNma http://CraNma.thing.net/ A communication module which filters and reorganizes information for masses. Spike http://www.hedweb.com/spike/welcome.htm Picking the brains of popular culture. Scars http://pleine-peau.com/scars/scars/index.html Stories and photography from Pleine Peau Crash Media http://www.yourserver.co.uk/crashmedia/ Looks at independent media around the world. JavaScript Source Library http://www.javascriptsource.com/ Hundreds of scripts which can be copied and used free of charge, from Mecklermedia. k.i.s.s. of the panopticon http://carmen.artsci.washington.edu/panop/home.htm Cultural theory and new media literacy. If you have suggestions or contributions send them to: murph@artnetweb.com"}, {"response": 82, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (04:45)", "body": "Five??"}, {"response": 83, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (06:43)", "body": "It was copied and pasted off of some bookmarks and this was the fifth set of them."}, {"response": 84, "author": "sonja", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (10:33)", "body": "??"}, {"response": 85, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (11:11)", "body": "They're some interesting artsy bookmarks with the number 5 cryptically as a heading, what can I say?"}, {"response": 86, "author": "sonja", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (14:44)", "body": "Say no more - I'm sure the others understand it perfectly!"}, {"response": 87, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (18:22)", "body": "You mean I'm off the hook?"}, {"response": 88, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct 23, 1998 (02:21)", "body": "I understand now! Geez, that took long - sorry, Terry!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 23, 1998 (03:07)", "body": "s' ok."}, {"response": 90, "author": "sonja", "date": "Fri, Oct 23, 1998 (11:04)", "body": "s'ok"}, {"response": 91, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Oct 25, 1998 (01:32)", "body": "s'cool"}, {"response": 92, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jan 17, 1999 (11:03)", "body": "ChannelP.com is the leading producer of arts related streaming media entertainment, designed specifically for \"netcast\" on the World Wide Web. Located in the heart of New York City ChannelP.com brings 'downtown art and culture' to a worldwide audience. ChannelP.com presents multidisciplinary programming, including visual art, literature, film, spoken word, theatre, dance, music and performance art. ChannelP.com also presents tangential programming on fashion, sports and the eclectic array of downtown culture. http://www.channelp.com/"}, {"response": 93, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Jan 18, 1999 (03:01)", "body": "At least you're posting in my conference..."}, {"response": 94, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 18, 1999 (08:59)", "body": "Their site of the month is http://www.literal-latte.com/ With the same slick, glitzy, cool look and feel. The \"pseduo online network\" let's yout watch videos while you chat, we could kind of do that with our webcam. I'd like to know the technology they're using because it's snappier and shows more frames than our webcam."}, {"response": 95, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Jan 20, 1999 (18:34)", "body": "not sure, but you can register to be an affiliate and broadcast their content from your site. I would like to do that, but I'm not RealAudio compliant at the moment... (of course I am, Mistress...)"}, {"response": 96, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 21, 1999 (08:43)", "body": "We're setting up a Realaudio Server on access.spring.net."}, {"response": 97, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Thu, Jan 21, 1999 (18:59)", "body": "cool! need help?"}, {"response": 98, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jan 22, 1999 (01:17)", "body": "got milk?"}, {"response": 99, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 22, 1999 (07:27)", "body": "I would love it if you could set this up, Ray!"}, {"response": 100, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Fri, Jan 22, 1999 (10:34)", "body": "email sent to terry. wer: i'm lactose intolerant ;)"}, {"response": 101, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jan 22, 1999 (10:46)", "body": "they have pills for that..."}, {"response": 102, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jan 30, 1999 (21:40)", "body": "yeah, and lactaid! *grin*"}, {"response": 103, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Feb 22, 1999 (08:12)", "body": "http://www.EsotericArt.com/fringe/art/gallery/GreenMan/JKWilliams.htm"}, {"response": 104, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, May 24, 1999 (01:25)", "body": "DING AN SICH An extremely beautiful and poetic use of imagery, music, and text wrapped together in a series of Shockwave interactive pieces. Slow download but definitely worth the wait. Great art site! Written by the artist: \"The title and philosophical ground for the work refers to the concept of the \"Thing Itself\" defined by Immanuel Kant in his \"Critique of Pure Reason\" as the reality of the thing--the essence beyond the knowledge of appearances.\" http://www.walkerart.org/gallery9/artists/dingansich/"}, {"response": 105, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jun 12, 1999 (12:49)", "body": "http://www.gifworks.com/ It's an online GIF image editor. This unique tool is completely on-line -- nothing to download or install. Better yet, it's ABSOLUTELY FREE -- no prepaid tokens or subscriptions."}, {"response": 106, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Aug  7, 1999 (16:31)", "body": "A great free graphics site: http://www.bsugraphics.com/"}, {"response": 107, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Aug  9, 1999 (00:36)", "body": "it is where the background and bars in the tv conference came from..."}, {"response": 108, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Nov 14, 1999 (21:55)", "body": "With The new buttons this is truly Art on the Web in capital letters (but I'm not gonna post it like that...) Absolutely amazing!"}, {"response": 109, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 30, 2001 (09:56)", "body": "http://www.geocities.com/michaelhaanel/Studio.html michael-haanel@well.com's website"}, {"response": 110, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 22, 2002 (14:21)", "body": "Donna Atwood is working on a book, details at http://www.riatoz.com contact: atwood@amug.org or donna@riatoz.com Donna is one of the finest illustrators around, I've been after her for ages to help with some Spring graphics and a logo. Hope she drops by sometime."}, {"response": 111, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 11, 2005 (20:40)", "body": "http://yonos.stumbleupon.com/ highly recommended. yonos's reviews Active Dec 11 \ufffd Joined Dec 25/03 's: 17310 \ufffd Fans: 751 Common Interests: Swimming, Ecommerce, Real Estate, Basketball, New Age, Entrepreneurship, Coffee, Mobile Computing, Shareware, Web Development, Windows, Open Source, Cyberculture Michael as similar interests to mine and a killer stumble blog! art gallery Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 50, "subject": "framing art", "response_count": 3, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 22, 2002 (14:56)", "body": "A google search revelas that the cleaning of oil paintings can be a bit tricky. If the paint is solid and without flakes a light dust with a very soft brush seems to be the most common solution, though a few sites also recommend rolling cotton wool balls which have been dampened with distilled water across the painting, again provided there are no flaking paint bits. Its probably also worth taking the painting out of the frame and cleaning the back, and you can be a bit rougher than with the painted surface. A good tip filled site is: http://www.hfmgv.org/research/cis/paint.html"}, {"response": 2, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Jan 23, 2002 (22:08)", "body": "well, if you consider cross stitch pictures art, i take mine to a local craft store and select the frame and matting myself. they stretch the canvas and really do a nice job framing. unfortunately, the process is expensive! but worth it."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul 22, 2002 (19:13)", "body": "This really is off topic, but this is such a cool card printing company I had to include it. http://www.modernpostcard.com/text/prod_jumbo_fold.shtml art gallery Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 51, "subject": "virtual art galleries on the web", "response_count": 10, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 22, 2002 (14:59)", "body": "I'll dig up some examples. Here's one for starters. http://www.well.com/~chrys/"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 22, 2002 (15:02)", "body": "http://www.guggenheim.com/index2.html"}, {"response": 3, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Jan 23, 2002 (22:09)", "body": "a lot of folks display their work on their websites, for sale or not. i went into one virtual place where it was like you walked through it (3d website)."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 18, 2002 (09:07)", "body": "Here's a new one by a guy who used to caretake and work on my property, Les Warren: http://www.leswarren.com It's black and white photography, and he has a studio set up on Main Street in Smithville."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, May 13, 2002 (10:51)", "body": "http://www.digitalapocalypse.com/gallery.html I've heard this is amazing, so I plan to take a look soon."}, {"response": 6, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, May 13, 2002 (18:11)", "body": "very interesting and strange!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Oct 27, 2002 (18:23)", "body": "Dennis Wilen: www.spacebrothers.com/art/rocktober.jpg www.spacebrothers.com/art/moondog.jpg www.spacebrothers.com/art/shmoo.jpg www.spacebrothers.com/art/smoove.jpg"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 29, 2002 (08:10)", "body": "http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/28/arts/design/28ARTS.html?tntemail0 Concrete Dreams: Actual Museums With Virtual Art By MATTHEW MIRAPAUL The United States is a curio cabinet of quirky museums. Among them are the Mount Horeb Mustard Museum in Wisconsin, the Children's Garbage Museum in Stratford, Conn., and the National Museum of Funeral History in Houston. But there's a gap. Despite the pride that Americans take in our technological prowess, this country \ufffd unlike Austria, Germany, the Netherlands and Japan \ufffd does not yet have a major institution devoted to Internet-based art works and other forms of computer art."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 2002 (13:15)", "body": "SITO. Digital art. The level of quality is incredible, considering that there's no editorial control. People post whatever they want. http://www.sito.org/cgi-bin/news/flash Bookmark this page. Visit it two or three times a week. Electronic Museum of Mail Art (EMMA) http://www.actlab.utexas.edu/emma/Intro/intro2.html Mostly old stuff (circa 1996) but very good quality. Mail Artists. http://www.art.net/~kiyotei http://www.natalukas.com/pages/mail.htm"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 2002 (22:50)", "body": "Sito.org is great. If you're in to adventure and serendipity. art gallery Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 52, "subject": "books on art", "response_count": 3, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Feb 14, 2002 (20:51)", "body": "these are books i love to browse through at the book stores!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Feb 18, 2002 (20:51)", "body": "Sam's carries a lot of these coffee table books too--saw some on ansel adams and a couple others."}, {"response": 3, "author": "admin", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 2003 (10:42)", "body": "I acquired a copy of Twentieth Century Art The Ebsworth Collection which happens to be my cousin Barney's art collection. There is a 29 page pdf preview of this at http://www.nga.gov/pdf/ebsworth.pdf This will give you at least a glimpse in to this remarkable collection. The book features work by George Ault, Peter Blume, Bolotwosky, Byron Browne, Patrick Henry Bruce, Charles Burchfield, Alexander Calder, Francis Criss, Andrew Dasburg, Stuart Davis, Manierre Dawson, Willem de Kooning, Charles Demuth, Preston Dickinson, Arthur Dove, Suzy Frelinghuysen, Albert E. Gallatin, William Glackens, Arshile Gorky, Morris Graves, O. Louis Guglielmi, Marsden Hartley, Stefan Hirsch, David Hockney, Edward Hopper Chop Suey , Jasper Johns, Ellsworth Kelly, Franz Kline, Walt Kuhn, Gaston Lachaise, Luigi Lucioni, John Marin, Alice Trumbull Mason, Joan Mitchell, Ellie Nadelman, Alice Neel, Georgia O'Keefe , Claes Oldenburg, Jackson Pollack , Robert Rauschenberg, Theodore Roszak, Charles Sheeler , Esphyr Slobodkina, David Smith, Joseph Stella, John Storrs, Miklos Suba, Wayne Thiebaud , Bob Thompson, George Tooker, Andy Warhol , Marguerite Thompson Zorach, 74 remarkable artists in all. It is almost beyond comprehension that Barney was able to put together such a collection. I only wish he would collect together his extended family members with some of the same enthusiasm and warmth that he devotes to his art collection. art gallery Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 53, "subject": "Georgia O'Keefe", "response_count": 6, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 16, 2002 (05:09)", "body": "Always a unique style Lake George, Coat and Red (1919), a salient example of O'Keeffe's early abstract style, was a roughly brushed composition in which a twisted, enigmatic form looms against a rainbow-hued sky. Early in her career she developed a personal, extremely refined style, favoring inherently abstract subject matter such as flower details and austere architectural themes. Many of her paintings were dramatic, sharp-focus enlargements of botanical details. Though O'Keeffe insisted that there was no symbolism behind her work, art critics continue to speculate about the sexual imagery in such paintings as Black Iris (1926) and Jack in the Pulpit No. 6 (1930). Indeed, this generative tension underlying her botanical paintings accounts for much of their force and mystery, and these images exalting life and energy were among her most optimistic and successful. Between 1926 and 1929 O'Keeffe painted a group of views of New York City. New York Night (1929) transformed skyscrapers into patterned, glittering structures that deny their volume. More architecturally characteristic were such paintings as Lake George Barns (1926) and Ranchos Church, Taos (1929). These simple buildings, further simplified in her painting, were America's anonymous folk architecture; in these forms O'Keeffe found a permanence and tranquility that contrasted with the frenetic urban environment. http://www.gale.com/free_resources/whm/bio/okeefe_g.htm"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 16, 2002 (05:10)", "body": "Influence of the Southwest In 1929 O'Keeffe began spending time in New Mexico; that region's dramatic mesas, ancient Spanish architecture, vegetation, and desiccated terrain became her constant themes. Total clarity characterizes her elemental vistas, and her subjects existed in self-contained worlds. Even her allegories of death in the desert \ufffd a sunbleached skull lying in the sand or affixed to a post (as in Cow's Skull with Red, 1936) \ufffd were eternalized. She regarded these whitened relics as symbols of the desert, nothing more. \"To me, they are strangely more living than the animals walking around \ufffd hair, eyes and all, with their tails switching.\" The dried animal bones and wooden crucifixes of the region which loom in her desert (Black Cross, New Mexico, 1929) were disquieting apparitions. In 1945 O'Keeffe bought an old adobe house in New Mexico; she moved there after her husband's death in 1946. The house served as a frequent subject. In paintings such as Black Patio Door (1955) and Patio with Cloud (1956) details of doors, windows, and walls were radically reduced to virtually unmodified planes of color. Many of O'Keeffe's paintings of the 1960s, large-scale patterns of clouds and landscapes seen from the air, reflected a romanticized view of nature evocative of her early themes. It Was Blue and Green (1960) used more impressionistic color, and the painting technique was looser, with less reliance on sharp contours. These large paintings culminated in a 24-foot mural on canvas, Sky above Clouds IV (1965). Her paintings of the 1970s were intense, powerful renditions of a black cock. A portrayal of O'Keeffe, In Cahoots with Coyote, from Terry Tempest Williams' 1994 book An Unspoken Hunger, painted a vivid narrative of the artist's entrancement with her beloved New Mexico she first visited in 1917. \"I simply paint what I see,\" O'Keeffe is quoted as saying, from O'Keeffe's own essays published in Georgia O'Keeffe in 1987. But, narrated Williams, her search for the ideal color, light, stones, parched bones that contained more life in them than living animals, transformed her forays into desert country into a communion with the perfection around her. Once, in a canyon bottom, she was so enthralled by the sight that she laid her head back Coyote-fashion and howled at the sky, terrifying her companions nearby who feared she was injured. \"I can't help it \ufffd it's all so beautiful,\" was her response. Another, well-known story related by Williams was of O'Keeffe purloining a perfectly shaped, totally black stone she coveted from the coffee table of friends. They had found it at a canyon riverbed during a search for stones moments before O'Keeffe arrived at the spot, but kept it tantalizingly out of her reach. Obsessed with the stone and seeing it on the table for her to steal if she wanted, she had no doubt she was the rightful possessor of such beauty. O'Keeffe's boldly original American works encompassed a wide vision from taut city towers to desertscapes in such vivid hues and form \"as to startle the senses,\" according to the narrative. O'Keeffe painted until a few weeks before her death. She died on March 6, 1986. Many of her works found a permanent home among the abode buildings of Sante Fe, New Mexico. The Georgia O'Keeffe Museum, designed by New York architect Richard Gluckman, opened in 1997 to hold more of her pastels, drawings, paintings and sculpture than any other museum. FURTHER READING The following exhibition catalogs were devoted to the artist: Art Institute of Chicago, Georgia O'Keeffe (1943), with an essay by Daniel Catton Rich; Worcester Art Museum, Georgia O'Keeffe: Forty Years of Her Art (1960), with an introduction by Rich; Amon Carter Museum of Western Art, Georgia O'Keeffe (1966), with quotations from various writers and critics and the artist herself; and Whitney Museum of American Art, Georgia O'Keeffe (1970), by Lloyd Goodrich and Doris Bry. Information on the Georgia O'Keeffe museum can be found in Metropolitan Home July-August 1997. O'Keeffe's obituary appeared in the March 7, 1986 edition of the New York Times. Source: Encyclopedia of World Biography, Gale, 1998."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 16, 2002 (05:17)", "body": "You can tour the Georgia O'Keefe Museum at http://www.okeeffemuseum.org/indexflash.html When it opened in July 1997, the Georgia O'Keeffe Museum's collection of artworks numbered 119, 93 of which were O'Keeffe's. Since then the Museum has acquired 60 additional works as gifts or promised gifts, including 27 O'Keeffe's. Ranging in date from 1916 to 1960 and representing some of her finest achievements in oil, pastel, and watercolor, these recent gifts bring the Museum's holdings by the artist to 120, and its total number of works to 179."}, {"response": 4, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep  3, 2002 (19:52)", "body": "i like her work---several have been translated into cross stitch too."}, {"response": 5, "author": "admin", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 2003 (09:44)", "body": "Barney has quite a few O'Keefes. Most notably 'Sunrise' and 'Music - Pink and Blue No. 1'."}, {"response": 6, "author": "admin", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 2003 (10:04)", "body": "Georgia O'Keeffe was born in Wisconsin and studied in Chicago and New York. She has a Texas connection. While teaching in the Lone Star state, she met photographer Alfred Stieglitz in 1916 and he exhibited her work at his New York gallery. During this time she evolved in to a modernist from being a symbolist. Her painting Sunrise reflects a turn toward the warmer part of spectrum and a love of the wide open West Texas plains and sky. A couple of days ago when we had tornado weather and heavy rain and hail, there was a red-purple sunset that made me think of O'Keefe. Had she been here to see it, she probably would have gone in to sensory overload and it would have resulted in a spectacular work. Aren't we all too remiss for not paying more attention to the sunsets and sunrises in our lives? Next time, I come and post here, I'll share some more remarkable discoveries I've made about the life and works of Georgia O'Keeffe. Apologies for not including the \"ff\" in her name in the title of this topic! Come back and visit because I have much more to share regarding this amazing sensory, earthy artist. art gallery Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 54, "subject": "Medieval Art", "response_count": 29, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (07:14)", "body": "You know, we also have a medieval conference so do you want me to link this to a parallel topic there, Riette. Some folks came to me and asked for medieval, but there has been scant activity there. We need to lure of few of these medievalists to our discussions."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (08:37)", "body": "Yes, please do that, Terry! I'd be very grateful. I'm sure there are people out there who can teach me a few things, and help me understand the history of painting better."}, {"response": 3, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (11:48)", "body": "i don't know if i've seen medieval artwork (paintings) but love looking at needlework from the era (reproductions, of course)."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (12:40)", "body": "Yes, me too. I'll post some examples here to try and make it a bit more interesting. Even I find art discussions totally boring without visuals - which is what art is about, right? And thank you for your interest, Wolf. I appreciate it."}, {"response": 5, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (22:46)", "body": "Bring on the visuals."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (23:11)", "body": "Link complete (to medieval)."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (23:13)", "body": "Item Resps Subject 1 34 introductions 2 7 IVANHOE! 3 2 THE CRUSADES 4 11 LE MORTE D'ARTHUR 5 7 \"Guievere \"by Laurel Phelan 6 30 TELL YOUR FRIENDS! 7 35 your profession in the middle ages 8 3 Victorian interpretation 9 0 Dante 10 6 Medieval Art (showing the link in the medieval conference)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (04:50)", "body": "Thank you, Terry."}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (00:29)", "body": "Virgin and Child enthroned between St Theodore and St George 68x48cm 6th Century"}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (01:25)", "body": "I chose this little icon, not only because it is full of motives for interpretation, but also because it is a good example of art in the First Golden Age of Byzantine Art. During the First Golden Age the figures of the Virgin and Child had appeared as symbols of the Christian faith, rather than two people in an intimate, human relationship. During the second Golden Age the Virgin and Child were often painted with their faces touching tenderly, which introduced a new note in sacred art - there is emotional closeness there. So a good way to tell wether an icon was doen in the First or Second golden age, is to look at the relationship between the Mother and Child. But as I mentioned already, the icon above is also quite 'interpretable'. Mary has big, wide eyes - suggesting her purity of heart, as well as that she is a woman of vision, she sees God. She does not seem to notice Jesus on her lap: she knows his powers, He can 'look after Himself'. The two saints beside her are George, the holy warrior and dragon killer, and Theodore, a less well known warrior saint. Notice how they each hold a cross, instead of their weapons. Then there are the angels behind the throne. They look up, reminding us that the Child belongs to God, and not to Mary. Furthermore the four halos of Mary, Jesus and the saints form a cross, which predicts the future of the Child."}, {"response": 11, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (22:05)", "body": "I always enjoy gazing at the beautiful gold-leafed christian icons in museums, though I often get that feeling \"if you've seen one, you've seen them all.\" I will have to pay closer attention to the Mary-Jesus relationship from now on."}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (01:35)", "body": "ha-ha! But I know what you mean. I can also look at icons one at a time - otherwise the meaning just gets totally lost."}, {"response": 13, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:08)", "body": "yes, it does get rather generic when you see one after the other but it displays how much those symbols meant to them. and most Mary/Jesus paintings show them as sort of aloof but connected. i imagine that Mary was just like any other mother would be with her first child (not to mention the fact that this is God's child)!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:31)", "body": "Vladimir Madonna 75x53cm 12th century"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:10)", "body": "Thank you, Wer! See the warmth and closeness between Mother and Child? Look how He snuggles up to her. That means, Second Golden Age. Vladimir Madonna was probably painted in Constantinople in the 12th century, and later taken to Russia."}, {"response": 16, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (14:04)", "body": "this is one of the first Madonna paintings that i've seen with the closeness of the two shown so. most others are with the baby Jesus just in her lap. love the cheek to cheek depiction. OK, maybe you explained this before, riette, but what does the golden ages mean?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (01:14)", "body": "It basically mean the age in which Christians got 'permission' to be Christian. And it started in 313 when Constantine recognized the Christian church as the official religion of the Roman Empire, thereby ending 300 years of Christian persecution. That's why virtually all the paintings/sculptures that survived from this period are religious in some way or other."}, {"response": 18, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (21:06)", "body": "It doesn't seem as well-preserved as most others; I wonder where it's been the last 700 years?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (05:18)", "body": "God only knows. Here is something beautiful for our topic: 'Annunciation' 1291 Mosaic Santa Maria in Trastevere, Rome What do you think? This sort of religious art I can not only endure, but feel true admiration for."}, {"response": 20, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:15)", "body": "Mosaics always turn me on; something about the texture, maybe. This one's gorgeous."}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (07:01)", "body": "I could find no information regarding this icon, but my guess is that it dates back to the first golden age of Byzantine art - that is, before the 8th century."}, {"response": 22, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (13:06)", "body": "look how tight baby Jesus is wrapped. similar to how tightly babies are wrapped today. almost a foreshadow of his death and being wrapped then..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (01:11)", "body": "Yes. I'm glad I wasn't Mary. Look at how he's already telling her what to do! I'd give the little (oops, was going to say bugger) a smacking in no time! Which reminds me of an amusing story my husband told me. Several years ago he was asked to accompany some church choir doing the nativity play. At one point the woman who conducted it all told the little girl who played Mary to pretend that she really is the dolly's Mummy - just like her own Mummy who had an 8 month-old baby. And the little girl said to Joseph: \"YOU take the bugger, I've had him all day!!\""}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (08:08)", "body": "Ha!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (08:57)", "body": "haha! kids say the cutest things!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (10:50)", "body": "The parents too, obviously..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (13:51)", "body": "this is true! kids always repeat things they've heard. my daughter runs around talking like her sitter! (see, the lady has practically adopted us and does have grown children of her own AND her own grandbabies, so what's a few more?) I adore her!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (14:04)", "body": "How sweet."}, {"response": 29, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 2003 (20:10)", "body": "I watched The Agony and the Ecstasy last week and the art was stunning. So was Charlton Heston. art gallery Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 55, "subject": "sculpture", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Apr 11, 2003 (12:47)", "body": "Hello sculpture fans, You are invited to see my figure sculpture in several upcoming shows: v \ufffdFirst Thursdays\ufffd May 1, June 5 etc. at the Guadalupe Arts Center, 1705 Guadalupe, Austin. Galleries and studios will be open 6-9 pm. Stop by my studio #218 (upstairs). Directions: http://guadalupearts.com/map.html . v \ufffdMothers\ufffd show May 1-31. This is a group show at The Gallery at the Guadalupe Arts Center. The opening is on Thursday May 1, 6-9 pm. Gallery hours are Mon-Sat 10-6 pm. I will have two sculptures of pregnant nudes in this show. v \ufffdSculptors Dominion\ufffd May 3-4. This is a group sculpture show outdoors at the \"Villa del Carmen\" Estate, 11354 Vance Jackson, San Antonio. Hours: 11-4 pm. For a list of participating sculptors see http://sculptorsdominion.com . Here\ufffds a map: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&addtohistory=&address=11354+Vance+Jackson&city=San+Antonio&state=tx&zipcode=&homesubmit=Get+Map . v \ufffdSculptfest\ufffd September 14. This is a group sculpture show outdoors at the Umlauf Sculpture Garden, Austin. Hours are 10-5 pm. The Umlauf Sculpture Garden is located at 605 Robert E. Lee Road, across the street from Zilker Park. Directions: http://www.umlaufsculpture.org/visit/directions.html . More info (to be posted soon) at http://www.tsos.org/festival.htm . Hope to see ya at one of these shows! Stay tuned for a major update of my Web site, coming soon. Sincerely, Arye Shapiro Sculptor Austin, Texas U.S.A. ph 512.328.4456 fx 413.793.3943 arye@figure-sculpture.com http://figure-sculpture.com"}, {"response": 2, "author": "admin", "date": "Thu, Feb 12, 2004 (10:22)", "body": "Good on the schedule, Arye, could you tell us how you got started in sculpture? And what words would you use to describe your sculpture that make it unique? art gallery Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 56, "subject": "Harrison Fisher Prints", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Mon, Sep 11, 2006 (10:52)", "body": "No, but your post will show up on the search engines and maybe some one will see it. art gallery Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 7, "subject": "Enigma Garden Cafe - Las Vegas", "response_count": 75, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, May  2, 1998 (08:41)", "body": "from vegas@well.com Hello, everyone...I've been pretty absent lately, mostly because my cafe, the Enigma, has been so terribly busy. We're up to 14 employees now! We were honored to again win in the 1998 Best of Las Vegas Awards, this time for \"Best Art Scene.\" Many of you have stopped by to visit when in Las Vegas, which is wonderful. You may be interested to know that we are about to celebrate our fifth anniversary, with ten days of art, music and spoken word events. I redesigned our web site http://radiant.org/enigma/ to bring it all up to date, and included an ongoing scrapbook of pictures of the Enigma and its people and things, if you want to get a better idea of what we look like. Some of you will remember that on our third birthday in 1996, a lot of WELLbeings sent postcards to help us celebrate our grand re-opening after renovations. While many of those cards are still around, many have been lost to time and careless coffee drinkers. If any of you are into it, we'd love to get a bunch of new cards from all over the world (in the scrapbook you can see some of the cards pasted to the front of the coffee counter...) People love seeing all the cards, and we love hearing from our far-flung friends. If you want to send postcards, our address is: Enigma Garden Cafe (or just \"Enigma\") 918 South Fourth Street Las Vegas, NV 89101 Thanks everyone...even when I am not online so much, you are my extended family who has helped keep me going all these years. Smooch!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Jun 24, 1998 (01:39)", "body": "I'll send you a card, Paul! And congratulations - sounds like you love every minute of it!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (04:15)", "body": "What shall we do with this topic, people? And what about photography? Any experts amongst us? Because if these two are not going to happen, I should kill it. I don't want any dead topics in this conference."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (07:57)", "body": "Perhaps we should take a look at the website and see if there's anything to spur a conversation, first."}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (09:34)", "body": "Good idea - or just think of SOMETHING to discuss in there; it's such a neat name for a topic, I find. Would be a shame if nothing came of it."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (10:24)", "body": "Take a look at http://radiant.org/enigma/ Then comment."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (10:27)", "body": "Contacting Enigma Enigma is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week March through November (7 am to midnight in the winter.) Enigma Garden Cafe 918 South Fourth Street, Las Vegas, Nevada 89101 Julie Brewer & Lenadams Dorris, proprietors phone 702.386.0999 fax 702.877.0641 (offsite) email enigma@radiant.org Here's info on joining the Enigma List, our electronic newsletter of alternative arts and cultural events in southern Nevada."}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (13:19)", "body": "It's great, Terry - but I don't quite know how to incorporate it into this conference. Should atomic blasts not go to Science? I was more thinking along the lines of devoting the topic to this caf\ufffd, while discussing something to do with art in here. Or we can use it as the 'couch' of Art. Instead of sitting around on the couch and being silly, we can sit here and be silly. I don't know - what do you all think? Let's have some more suggestions! And what about photography? I know ziltch about photography, so I don't quite know how to get the topic going, so either someone's going to have to help me out, or I'll kill the topic until someone interested enough creates it again, and brings it to life. I just don't see the point in having topics that attract no attention whatsoever, do you know what I mean?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (16:47)", "body": "Go deeper into their site, and maybe send off an innocent query to Lenaddams and ask what she plans for the art section. (still giving the topic cpr)."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (01:07)", "body": "But there's nothing to click on."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (07:30)", "body": "Maybe we could offer to whip up an art section for her and link it to your art topic?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (08:30)", "body": "Sounds great!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:11)", "body": "I like the idea of using the Enigma Garden cafe as an art hangout. Decaf espresso, anyone?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (22:44)", "body": "Mocha for moi."}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (01:17)", "body": "Just a large Coca-Cola for me, please. I'm so totally addicted at the moment, it's not even funny anymore."}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (05:35)", "body": "You're a Coca Head?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (07:56)", "body": "i'd like a Dr Pepper, thanks!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (10:54)", "body": "Dr Pepper? Never heard of it. Terry, I guess it explains the thought bubbles."}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (11:10)", "body": "It's a Southern thing, DP."}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (11:49)", "body": "And what do Southern things taste like, huh?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (12:13)", "body": "Like prune juice."}, {"response": 22, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (12:42)", "body": "hot and spicey!!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (15:25)", "body": "I get hot, spicy juice for free - all I have to do is stamp my foot, or ask nicely...."}, {"response": 24, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (16:27)", "body": "me, too!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (18:22)", "body": "Isn't Dr. Pepper cherry flavored? Remember his archrival, Mr. Pibb?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (21:38)", "body": "yup. now there's cherry coke. i drink all three but dp is my fave!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:02)", "body": "Cherry Coke is a weird concept to me."}, {"response": 28, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:18)", "body": "maybe, but it is better than Wild Cherry Pepsi..."}, {"response": 29, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (04:11)", "body": "You're $hitting me, aren't you?? Wild Cherry Pepsi? NO WAY!!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (09:36)", "body": "Way."}, {"response": 31, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (11:23)", "body": "THat's crazy!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (11:37)", "body": "Baby, we got designer drinks down here you ain't never seen the likes of!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (13:03)", "body": "Better make a list, 'cos I'm going to taste each and every one of them when I get there. Started your video."}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (13:37)", "body": "\"Started the video\" ... woo woo!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (14:05)", "body": "Or booh booh! for that matter."}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (17:24)", "body": "Keep it goin'... it will be so much fun to see."}, {"response": 37, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (08:52)", "body": "Another weird concept..."}, {"response": 38, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (13:51)", "body": "I always enjoyed a good cream soda, myself."}, {"response": 39, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (19:26)", "body": "A Big Red?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (00:51)", "body": "We have Cream Soda in Namibia, but it's green. I love it."}, {"response": 41, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:24)", "body": "Nehi used to make a blue one, but usually they're red or the color of ginger ale... Ever had White Rook cream soday, Autumn?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:42)", "body": "?????"}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (10:06)", "body": "What are you puzzled about? Ever hear of Big Red?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (12:13)", "body": "UH-UH!! Nevva evva."}, {"response": 45, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (16:43)", "body": "Ever hear of Squirt?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (20:08)", "body": "you are gonna have this gal in stitches (as if she hasn't had enough already)! but i've heard of squirt and that other one you mentioned."}, {"response": 47, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:43)", "body": "Never heard of Big Red or White Rook--are they the premier cream sodas? Mystic Seaport makes a fantastic one, and IBC is good. Actually, the store brand is fine by me."}, {"response": 48, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:47)", "body": "i like the mystic drinks and arizona iced tea (although i usually get kiwi- strawberry or something like that). hadn't heard of white rook, what is it? oh, you know what's good? that v-8 splash stuff. yummy....great way to get your vegees! ok, you all know rc cola, right? riette?"}, {"response": 49, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (01:37)", "body": "\ufffdlaughing myself into a coma\ufffd SQUIRT?!?!?! Is this for real?? I can only imagine what the advert must look like: (FADE IN: corny Elvis ballad) \"For years now my husband and I have been trying for a baby. We have tried the usual method, hormone treatment, artificial insemination, everything - but without success. Then someone told me about Squirt. Not only can you buy it in your local supermarket for a dollar, but it tastes JUST like the real thing - but with bubbles, of course. Now here I am, just look at me - seven months pregnant, and happier than I've ever been in my entire life. Every night I go down on my knees, and thank God for a dri k called Squirt.\" (FADE OUT: corny Elvis ballad)"}, {"response": 50, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (07:36)", "body": "Squirt needs to put you on their marketing payroll."}, {"response": 51, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (09:03)", "body": "ha-ha!!! No, I don't want THAT on my conscience as well! They'd be sued from here to the moon by customers who didn't quite get what they bargained for!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (23:03)", "body": "White Rook makes the best cream soda I've ever had... Sioux City's is good, as is Stewart's... actually got a Squirt can in the box to send ya, Riette... it's almost full, so I'll start saving the postage..."}, {"response": 53, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (23:27)", "body": "For a second, I thought he meant the can of Squirt was almost full."}, {"response": 54, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (01:14)", "body": "HA-HA!!!!! Wer, I don't know how to tell you this: I've thrown in the can, so to speak, with the mosa\ufffdc. It didn't work as I thought it would, and so I had to stop, as I was wasting time. I didn't tell you, because I thought/hoped you had forgotten anyway - and I was embarrassed. I'm really sorry for all that trouble."}, {"response": 55, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (07:35)", "body": "no problem"}, {"response": 56, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (11:32)", "body": "thanks"}, {"response": 57, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov  9, 1998 (13:26)", "body": "Hot back to the topic flash. I read this by vegas today, for those of you who have wondered why she hasn't been around much. #821 of 821: This is the real (vegas) Mon Nov 9 '98 (11:02) 54 lines Hi. I can't believe it's been four months since I logged in! So, here's the scoop: 1)I am alive, although not *exactly* fine. I have been struggling with some moderately serious health issues, in particular a preliminary diagnosis of cancer. Don't freak out...I'm doing the things I supposed to be doing, although I've been a bit hampered by a lack of insurance. I'll let you know if anything dramatic develops, but for right now I am stable, well-drugged and continued the discovery process. The drugs are handling the pain I've been experiencing quite well, and as an extra-added bonus I've lost fifty pounds! (when you're as big as I am, 50 pounds is a drop in the bucket!) 2) I am now doing Enigma alone. My partner Julie has gone on to other projects, and I took over the whole company. This, of course, reduces my fre time even more. Enigma is doing pretty well, although the weird weather this year has hurt us (as I write this it's 48 degrees, sunny and the wind is blowing thirty miles and hour. Not a good thing for an outdoor cafe.) 3) I am finally renovating the house...floors, ceilings, windows, bathroom, yard, etc. Again, a lot of time being eaten. The way I'm being able to do this is that I have a faince who is buying into the house by funding the renovations. A fiance?.... 4) Yes, I am getting married to a fine woman by the name of Mildred Leah Echevaria Ben-David. She was my high-school sweetheart, who I asked to marry me when I was 16. She finally said yes. In the intervening years she was living in Israel and giving birth to two of my three beautiful goddaughters. That was before she came out as a dyke, of course. The irony that a dyke and a fag who were childhood sweethearts are getting married at 39 years old is not lost on us. But we are in fact in love with each other, and make a good pair. We will be having a simple civil ceremony and then host a reception at the Enigma, probably in the first week of December. We are currently waiting for the divorce papers from her husband (they never bothered to get divorced.) He's coming to Vegas this weekend to see his daughter and attend a convention, and is supposed to bring the papers with him. We'll see. My illness is annoying, but it is made a lot more bearable by Millie's presence in my life. OK, that's all for now. If you questions or comments, email me, because I don't know when I'll be back online again. I'll try to make it sooner, next time, though. Thanks for thinking of me... Len A finger request reveals: bash$ finger vegas@well.com Login: vegas Name: Lenadams William Dorris Directory: /home/v/e/vegas Shell: /usr/bin/csh Last login Mon Nov 9 10:47 (PDT) on pts/141 from vegasppp081.netn Plan: I co-host the Cooking, Desert and bl.ind conferences on the Well. I live in Las Vegas, Nevada, where I'm the co-owner of a coffeehouse/cafe gallery/performance space called ENIGMA. I do commentary daily for the local NPR affiliate, and I am the food critic for Las Vegas City Life. My preferred email address is lenadams@radiant.org, and my personal home page is at http://radiant.org/people/lenadams/ My phone number at home is 702.876.8723; at work it is 702.386.0999."}, {"response": 58, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (04:35)", "body": "That's really sweet - I hope you'll be very, very happy together; and I'm glad that you don't have to be ill alone. All our love and best wishes, Len!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (07:20)", "body": "What a unique story. I've heard of love from many different angles, but never like this before."}, {"response": 60, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (01:37)", "body": "Love is what makes the world go round!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "TIM", "date": "Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (04:48)", "body": "Nope, love is not what makes the world go around. love is what makes the ride worthwile."}, {"response": 62, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (01:50)", "body": "OOH! You're just so full of it!! Too hot! Too cool?!?! Well, you know what I mean!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "TIM", "date": "Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (04:01)", "body": "Thank You, Riette. I appreciate that, and you are too... you know."}, {"response": 64, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (02:06)", "body": "So, we're both....you know....that THING? Wow!"}, {"response": 65, "author": "TIM", "date": "Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (03:55)", "body": "Small world...Isn't it, Riette?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (09:34)", "body": "X-Sender: radiant.org/enigma-list@eagle.he.net Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:51:53 -0800 To: Enigma List Members mailto://enigma-list@radiant.org Subject: ENIGMA LIST: Ruthless Self Promotion ENIGMALIST*ENIGMALIST*ENIGMALIST*ENIGMALIST*ENIGMALIST*ENIGMALIST from Lenadams Dorris mailto://lenadams@radiant.org OK, everybody...I know it's tacky to so ruthlessly self-promote (and to use a mass mailing to do it, as well!) but I thought you might get a kick out of the following websites: http://www.playboy.com/prowl/profiles/ (an interview with me on Playboy Online about the weirdness that is Vegas, conducted by none other than Jim and Michael Monk; the Playboy site is volatile, so I don't know how long the interview will be up. If you miss it, I have a mirror on my homepage at http://radiant.org/people/lenadams/playboyindex.html I'm particularly fond of the picture on the site, showing as it does the new, svelter me...) -and- http://lasvegasweekly.com/features/vegasverse.html (online version of an article by Geoff Carter in Las Vegas Weekly, profiling me and fellow fellow Dayvid Figler; includes a rather distinctive caricature...) Don't worry, I'm not taking myself too seriously...but it's kind of a hoot to see pieces of oneself through the eyes of others... Once again, thanks to all of you for supporting me, and supporting arts and culture in Southern Nevada... Len"}, {"response": 67, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (12:50)", "body": "whatever! we know what happened to the fab market babe..."}, {"response": 68, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (01:34)", "body": "ha-ha!!! As long as we don't fall for Len's sexy qualities as pathetically as did the men for the fab market babe, we'll be fine! That was soooooo funny!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "TIM", "date": "Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (01:57)", "body": "I think that I'm in the clear on that one. I don't follow that particular trail Look again, I said trail, not tail."}, {"response": 70, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Nov 21, 1998 (01:15)", "body": "ha-ha! Pity you weren't here then. This girl came on, advertising estate or something, but promising the guys a few other kicks on top. And they all fell for her like toy soldiers, heck, twenty suggestive responses to her advert in one day, I'd say. Of course it turned out the fab market babe was merely using the spring in a clever way for free advertising - she NEVER returned, and all the guys were heartbroken for weeks!"}, {"response": 71, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sat, Nov 21, 1998 (01:15)", "body": "Cute! Was she found out, or did she just post and leave?"}, {"response": 72, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 21, 1998 (21:46)", "body": "Believe me Len is not in the fab babe hit and run category. I reposted her things and she's got quite a story, as you can tell from above. She's anything but crassly commercial like our beloved wham-bam-thank-you-m'am babe."}, {"response": 73, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 23, 1998 (01:52)", "body": "No, absolutely! After all this is her topic! I just thought it might amuse Tim to learn the funny fab market babe facts. Anyway, Tim, so the fab market babe just never came back - which more or less opened our jelly men's eyes. So I suggested they kill the bitch, and her topic was frozen. BRRRR!"}, {"response": 74, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 23, 1998 (06:15)", "body": "She was a drive by fart, the babe (not len who we love)."}, {"response": 75, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 23, 1998 (07:46)", "body": "Ha-HA!!!!! Poor gullible souls! art conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 9, "subject": "PERMISSION TO SHOOT", "response_count": 70, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Jul  8, 1998 (12:09)", "body": "As soon as I've got a background going here, I shall start putting in pictures, mine, and hopefully yours. No, I don't expect any of you to reveal your souls, but I do think we're a creative and funny bunch most of the time, and I think it would be brilliant fun to see each other's 'loo sketches' as well as some more serious stuff. I don't want this conference to turn snobby, and so I'll share some of my serious work with you, those of you who want are VERY VERY welcome to share yours. Even if you don't intend to go professional, it is still nice to have feed-back from others, to discuss things, and well, just keep the creative part of our minds working. But I also want this to be a place where we can display silly sketches of things we see every day - no talent required. I'm very bad at sketching, so none of you have to be shy. Art isn't about being able to draw or not - it is about our interpretation, the pleasure we can derive from looking at things. My daughter's scribblings for example, are as much art to me as Picasso paintings - simply because it gives me pleasure to look at them. I think it's time to scrub the fancy gold plate off the concept of art and see it for what it really is: something for everyone. ."}, {"response": 2, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Wed, Jul  8, 1998 (20:09)", "body": "hear hear! i am possibly the most appaling artist in the sense of \"motor skills\" - I just don't have any. but i have a fiery imagination, which i get so frustrated with because my hands just won't make it come out! heeee...watch out world :)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Jul  8, 1998 (20:56)", "body": "Thank you for your willingness and support, Mike. It is very much appreciated. I'm going to go open a topic, okay?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (00:10)", "body": "okay. hey, i'm good with stick figures, does that count?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (01:43)", "body": "that's one step above my ability..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (03:04)", "body": "finger painting is good. duz you needs a huggy wuggy? me thinks you do *hug*"}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (06:02)", "body": "Stick figures, finger paint, paw print, rock painting, a blotch on the wall - they're all wanted and welcome here."}, {"response": 8, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (19:06)", "body": "ever make pictures with crayon shavings and an iron?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (19:29)", "body": "yep! (of course, having waxed paper helps also...)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (19:32)", "body": "if'n you're using your own iron, that is!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (19:37)", "body": "no one else will let me borrow theirs..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (19:42)", "body": "I refuse to iron and Brandon will NOT let me touch ours for art projects! Eh, wrinkles are a fact of life!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (20:52)", "body": "why not? the iron plate can be cleaned off! (i hate ironing, but i hate wrinkles worse)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (22:28)", "body": "I've NEVER heard of it!!! Stacey what are the chances of getting one of those into the Gallery? See, that's just the sort of thing I want. We can all learn about and appreciate each other's ideas. And I'll go open a topic to discuss this sort of thing in. Thank you!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jul  9, 1998 (23:11)", "body": "I'll send you some of my students' work!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (03:03)", "body": "can't say i've ever tried it, maybe i will....now if i can just find the crayons the dogs didn't get to (what is it with dogs and crayons?)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (03:48)", "body": "We used to do the crayon/iron thing on T-shirts in Girl Scouts; we called it batik, which is Malaysian for clique-y-WASP-activity-to-earn-a-merit-badge."}, {"response": 18, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (03:54)", "body": "I remember it from vacation bible school, school, and cub scouts..."}, {"response": 19, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (04:03)", "body": "do you guys remember those yarn cross things? you know, you take two sticks, place them on top of each other in a cross fashion, then weave yarn in and out between them? those things were fun, but i don't remember how exactly to do it. (like to show my kids, y'know?)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (04:14)", "body": "They're called Gods-eyes, we made them at Vacation Bible School last year. I think it went like this: you use 2 dowels the same size, make a cross shape, and secure them together with 2 individual pieces of thread in an \"X\". Then start with your first color of yarn; knot it to one arm of the dowel; completely encircle the dowel and go to the next arm, and so on. After several times around, knot it off and start in on the next color. It is easier to picture than it is to describe, so I hope this makes some sense, Wolf."}, {"response": 21, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (04:17)", "body": "yes, it does, just couldn't remember how to start them or what they were called. (and how do you do the crayon on the t-shirt thing?)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (04:24)", "body": "I have those instructions around here somewhere...I'll post them next time I'm on. It's real easy."}, {"response": 23, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (04:27)", "body": "and real messy, too, huh? thanks, Autumn!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (04:33)", "body": "ojo de dios, in Spanish, for the yarn cross thing..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (04:42)", "body": "cool!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (06:27)", "body": "You're becoming a language (S)EXPERT, Wer! Stacey, I would love to put your kids' pics on here - tell them I'd consider it an honour."}, {"response": 27, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (16:28)", "body": "i think that would help open up people's eyes to what they can do, maybe start breaking down the stigma, you know?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (19:55)", "body": "Absolutely. And I find children better artists than we grown-ups anyway. Their work is free and open and unpretensious."}, {"response": 29, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (02:57)", "body": "i know, we're too busy following rules that we forget to let go once in awhile.."}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (06:33)", "body": "I almost think we are unable to let go like that as grown-up artists. I learn alot from Isa's art. I feel more free to just do anything, and not merely go for what I think other's might like."}, {"response": 31, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (19:24)", "body": "my kids just draw. doesn't matter that the sky is purple or anything. i think, though, my son is losing that a bit."}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (19:35)", "body": "I sometimes wonder if that (and I remember starting to make blue skies around ten or so) can be seen as a symbol of one's gradual becoming aware of the bleak realities of Life as you grow older and change into an adult. How old is he?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (19:37)", "body": "*gulp* 9. he's really growing up."}, {"response": 34, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (19:50)", "body": "Frightening, isn't it? A friend of mine had a baby boy on Monday morning. Today I visited, and holding him I could have had another on the spot. I kept thinking how familiar it felt, and smelled, about the deep contentment I felt at the births of my babies, you know that mixed sense of wonder and responsibility that such a small baby brings. It was like only a day or so had passed since I had Elza, and there she was, running around the room, and fighting with her sister and saying, 'My baby, Isa, not yours!' I realized my baby had grown into a toddler, and felt cold all over. I cannot imagine never feeling like that again, and so I feel really really really broody at the moment. But Chris is not so sure - the round birthday has somehow upset us both. I want to have another before it is really too late for him, he wants everything to quieten down now. The one problem about big age differences in men and women, I suppose. I don't know. Perhaps I'm just afraid of the way it all goes so 'too quickly'."}, {"response": 35, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (21:05)", "body": "i'm at a nice round age (and nice round middle) that i can't see having more babies. mr wolf doesn't mind the idea, but i dunno. i like to hold people's babies but then i like to give them back. it's alright to brood now and again. and i understand what you mean by it seeming just a few days ago. my baby girl (and best buddy) is now 5 and she is in a struggle with her wanting independence. she lashes out at me every chance she gets. it's hard to want more babies when they're being so ugly, you know? mr wolf and i are merely a year apart."}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (22:14)", "body": "That must make things easier - sometimes we just seem to have totally different goals in life. But we usually manage to work it out okay. Chris is a strange and hard and kind man. And I know what you mean by them being ugly. Isa is great fun, but at 3 she can also be a real pain at times. Sometimes we just have these 'cop' days, as Americans would put it. That's when I don't want any more children. I just think it will be so much fun when I'm in my thirties, because they will both be over ten by then, and we could travel and go merry-go-around hunting together. I don't want more babies to stop that from happening. Anyway, so then, at the end of such a day, I'll say to her: 'You know, Isa, today was a cop day. I felt like a cop all day.' And she'll just give that sleepy smile, and say, 'That's okay. Go to sleep now, Mummy.' And I just feel like having another six!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (22:54)", "body": "haha! mine will say to me, 'i don't like you when you're ugly' and then i'll say 'now you know how i feel.' now she calls me her 'big fat mama' and boy don't i ever feel so good...."}, {"response": 38, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 11, 1998 (23:15)", "body": "Oh, you poor thing! I know, they can be HORRIBLE at times! When I scowl and tell Isa off for shouting at me for nothing, she says, 'Please don't hurt me, Mummy, please!', and wimpers as if I were some monster, and it just makes me feel like the wicked witch from the west. (south in this case!) Once Chris and I were squabbling over which restaurant to go to on his free day, and she said, 'You TELL her, Daddy!' Well, I suppose they also get fed up with seeing my old face all the time."}, {"response": 39, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul 12, 1998 (00:53)", "body": "yeah, but as much the monster that i am, as soon as the mr wolf starts stomping around they can't wait to take shelter with me, the big monster! oh and she'll be the first to tell daddy not to yell at me or whatever!!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul 12, 1998 (06:42)", "body": "SAME HERE!! Hilarious, isn't it?! OH, daddy can just say 'no' once, in a friendly tone, and they side with me like a pair of fanatics! Little lunatics! Then I'll say 'no' to something, and they run to him! One can't win! ha-ha!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul 12, 1998 (15:38)", "body": "yup. funny, for all my hollering, those kids still want to follow me everywhere!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul 12, 1998 (16:34)", "body": "Hellish fun, is what Chris sometimes calls it!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul 12, 1998 (22:14)", "body": "yeah, think you really have to be looney for them to put up with it, you know? how many of your friends would you allow to throw ugly temper tantrums in your house?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul 12, 1998 (22:15)", "body": "oh wait! I throw ugly temper tantrums in my house, but it's MY house, eh?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Jul 13, 1998 (06:52)", "body": "Ha-ha!! Me too! With my kids I take the open approach. If they pi$$ me off, I make sure they know it, and if I pi$$ them off, then they can tell me too. Keeps it simple, and nothing gets bottled up. It just get a little embarassing when they come out with an 'oh, shutup' or a 'damn it!' or a 'bloody he\ufffd\ufffd' in front of the grandparents!!! My mum is the mother of all swearing, she says she only started swearing after having twins, but Chris' parents are very old now, totally unapproachable, hate the fact that he didn't marry a more dignified person of his own age and standing, very conservative, and very deaf, except to swear words it seems. So they get a little perturbed at times. I had such a laugh once. Sometimes when the kids did something sweetly naughty, I pretend to smack them by putting my hand on their bum, and smacking my hand, making it sound like the real thing, and they laugh themselves to bits. Last time we were in England, I was thus smacking them for playing hide-and-seek in the suitcases, and messing up the clothes, when the talking in the front room suddenly became very silent, so I told Isa to scream every time I hit her. Well, she was very convincing, pretending to scream and howl - and they all came charging into the room, thinking I was abusing my poor children!!! Isa and I thought it hysterical, but they were not amused, so I was gravely admonished by the grandparents who think this girl from the bush seduced their poor innocent little(!!!!) son! ha-ha! Chris laughed himself to bits, but it's been months, and we've not been invited back . .. . should have thought of it alot earlier!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Jul 13, 1998 (22:34)", "body": "haha!! over here, they'll turn you in without finding out anything and begin an investigation. granted, it's good for those who do abuse their kids, but what about the parents who are taking care of their kids? one lady was turned in because she slapped her son after she told him to quit hitting his sister in a grocery store. they took him away!! give me a break! and the poor little guy was, like, i deserved a smack, i didn't listen to my mom. thankfully, they were reunited. that's terrible, to cause such heart ache. all they'd have to do was talk to the kids, not just rip the whole house apart because of some over-zealous child-abuse watcher. my kids do not act up in stores, thank goodness. they let their hair down here!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Tue, Jul 14, 1998 (02:30)", "body": "i think you guys need to disappear into the parenting conf (if there is one)"}, {"response": 48, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Jul 14, 1998 (02:52)", "body": "there is one, i avoid places like that (not to offend anyone here, haven't been to this one yet) i always feel like i'm doing everything way wrong! as if there is one right way to deal with children. reitte and i went off on a tangent (but you were polite in your comment *smile*)"}, {"response": 49, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jul 14, 1998 (06:38)", "body": "Okay, then I officially rename this topic to PERMISSION TO SHOOT THE CHILDREN!! No, just a joke. Sorry we went on like that, everybody. And thanks for the criticism, Mike. See? I don't blow up EVERYTIME someone criticizes me. Just every other time . . . . :-D"}, {"response": 50, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Jul 15, 1998 (03:17)", "body": "oh, good, must mean it's my turn..."}, {"response": 51, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Jul 15, 1998 (06:17)", "body": "And would YOU like to criticize today, Wer? I'm all ears and all spears...."}, {"response": 52, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Jul 18, 1998 (03:29)", "body": "Um, if anyone is interested, here's the crayon batik directions: You need a pre-washed all-cotton shirt, crayons, newspaper, and an iron. Have the child sketch out a draft of the design on paper. Bold, basic shapes (such as hearts, stick figures, etc.) work better than intricate patterns. Lay the garment on a hard, flat surface and tape it down to secure. Have the child decorate it, pressing down firmly and retracing/reshading once or twice. Red, blue and green work better than pastels. To make letters or numbers, try using scotch tape to form the letter/number and color around the edges (kind of the opposite of a stencil). Peel off the tape (this is important!) and place a thick layer of newspaper on the ironing board. Lay the shirt, colored side down, on the paper and press the back side of the design for a minute or so with the iron on the cotton setting. Peel off a layer of newspaper, lift the shirt and place it down on a fresh layer of paper and press again. Repeat until no color comes off on the paper. Wash the garment in cool water and tumble dry (this is what the directions say but there ain't no way a shirt with crayon on it is going in my dryer!) Have fun."}, {"response": 53, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 18, 1998 (06:00)", "body": "Thank you, Autumn, I'm going to try that as soon as my finger is better. Sounds like fun!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Jul 18, 1998 (09:58)", "body": "cool :) I'm sorry, my response wasn't meant to be criticism, i just pressed the submit before putting the little grinny face in. so here it is, to make up for it: :-)))"}, {"response": 55, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 18, 1998 (12:36)", "body": "ha-ha!!! Wasn't offended in the first place though. And if it were a criticism, it would have been fair."}, {"response": 56, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Dec  8, 1998 (23:25)", "body": "Will somebody shoot now, please? This waiting is making me rather nervous..."}, {"response": 57, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (01:23)", "body": "*bang* feel better? not me, my hair's standing on end. (a little wolf humor there)"}, {"response": 58, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (07:17)", "body": "ha-ha! I feel alright - or will soon; honestly, I don't know why you had to shoot me with rabbit droppings. Leftovers from dinner?"}, {"response": 59, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (14:04)", "body": "how'd you know?"}, {"response": 60, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (15:51)", "body": "Keen sense of smell...."}, {"response": 61, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (23:33)", "body": "And an extensive knowlege of by-products?"}, {"response": 62, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (00:29)", "body": "haha! or wolfie excrement!!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "PT", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (00:49)", "body": "Perhaps just generic manure?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (00:51)", "body": "generic? hardly! this wolfie has unique droppings even if i say so myself. ok, can we please quit talking about poop?"}, {"response": 65, "author": "PT", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (00:53)", "body": "Consider it done."}, {"response": 66, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (00:54)", "body": "*whew*"}, {"response": 67, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (05:02)", "body": "I came in on the end of that one."}, {"response": 68, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (06:42)", "body": "Be thankful for that!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (14:59)", "body": "what a clever play on words, wer! *grin*"}, {"response": 70, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (15:22)", "body": "thanks! art gallery Main Menu"}]}]}