{"conf": "austentest", "generated_at": "2026-04-26T08:00:02.954878Z", "threads": [{"num": 0, "subject": "", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 10, "subject": "introduce yourself, Austen person", "response_count": 295, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Stefanie", "date": "Thu, Nov 21, 1996 (23:30)", "body": "As most of you already know from Amy's other board, my name is Stefanie and I spend most of my time in Syracuse, NY where I attend SYracuse University. I can't wait for the strings to get going here like they used to on the other board. I miss you all v ery dearly. -Stefanie"}, {"response": 2, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Nov 21, 1996 (23:43)", "body": "I'm The Mysterious H.C. ;-)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Nov 21, 1996 (23:43)", "body": ""}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (00:09)", "body": "Jumbo jpeg!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (00:20)", "body": "Hi Guys, I just found this while waiting for the last Friday afternoon crisis to hit my desk - the P&P2 addicts club is a real moving target this week! I am as stated previously a 39 year old Austen fan and some-time surgical pathologist from Newcastle Australia. I hope catch up properly tommorow. In the meantime, thanks to Spring for their hospitality, to Alcicia for emergency services and to Amy for general sheperding, organising and other patroness stuff. Anna"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (02:17)", "body": "I see Stefanie finally got through. As did Henry. Just look for the giant revolving Hippopotamus, as Johnny Carson would say... Janet? Rebecca? You guys still having problems? If I miss any of you at the chat room, please e-mail me at dxiechkn@uclink.berkeley.edu ! - K"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (02:40)", "body": "Well, this will take some getting used to, old dog, new tricks and all that. I am not yet eight and thirty, I am a piano teacher and church music director and in my spare time, I collect volunteers to help with the management of wherever we wind up for the P&P2 BB. If you haven't yet volunteered e-mail me at clsneed@ix.netcom.com Keep those cards and letters coming in!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (03:56)", "body": "Well, let's try this again... for some reason only the first line of this got posted on my first attempt. Does this form, perhaps require hard returns? Although the two other Joans who were with us earlier appear to have fallen by the wayside,I have decided to remain Joan, too becasue I know very well that the instant I were to drop the \"too\" another one would surface. Murphy's law would have it so. While the search continues we are indeed indebted to Alicia for taking in the homeless and to Terry for these most hospitable arrangements, and to those who are working behind the scenes to help our beloved patroness Amy to locate permanent accommodations more suitable for a group of this size and volubility. Meanwhile we must endeavour to keep our spirits up and entertain ourselves with what avenues are avaliable, including the excellent accommodations (though admitedly not so grand as the breakfast roo at Rosings Park) of the Pemberley room at the estate of Lady Kaffeine the magnanimous. Those who have arrived at that location at or about the appointed times have on occasion found somewhat with which to amuse themselves, and look forward to the partic ipation of others who may find their way to that assembly."}, {"response": 9, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (03:57)", "body": ""}, {"response": 10, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (04:05)", "body": ""}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (07:21)", "body": "I think when you post, you have to be careful about hitting the enter or return key on your computer more than once. This may or may not have been what happened. If you have problems with our software or questions, we have another conference called 'yapp' which you can join and direct queries directly to the author of this software, Dave Thaler. If a software fix is required, he usually is pretty prompt in doing it."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (07:44)", "body": "I'll do my best to faciltitate whatever it is y'all need."}, {"response": 13, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (08:23)", "body": "G'day, Well I see there is a fellow Novocastrian in Anna here. Terry this is a great service you are offering but have you thought of the consequences. This is simply going to get too much for you to manage as we're all so gushy about JA and P&P2 etc. I'm a Real Estate Valuer and one and thirty. Oh I'm an Aussie too. Adieu, Ian"}, {"response": 14, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (09:04)", "body": "Hi, I'm Myretta(a soul surfacing as a result of the loss of Amy's board). I have been reading your posts and enjoying your company for a month or so. I didn't realize how devoted I was until the board disappeared. I also realized that I was not returning full value for my enjoyment by not joining in your dialogue. So. . ., as I said, I'm Myretta. I'm a technology and operations manager (that is I am responsible for networks and computer hardware) for a university publishing company. I'm 49 (or less) and live in the Boston area. I am, as Amy and Cheryl both know, available to help where help is needed. Thanks to you all for adding an extra dimension to my days. Myretta"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (09:17)", "body": "Hi Myretta. Thanks for your offers. I could actually use some help deciphering a new bb script. Somehow, though I feel that we should consider this Yapp software since we can get such good support from its developer here. Maybe we should take a look at it. Amy"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Kim", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (09:44)", "body": "I am 35 years old, and I live in the southern part of the US. I am married with no children, but we do have a dalmatian that is just like our child. I am an elementary school librarian. I became interested in Jane Austen after seeing P&P2 on A&E."}, {"response": 17, "author": "haker", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (10:20)", "body": "Hey everybody! I'm a structural engineer (still haven't found a job since graduating, but I do have a couple of leads.) I live in Mpls. MN USA, but am in Milwaukee visiting my parents for a few days. It's nice to see the familiar face are all here--and some new ones too."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Anneother", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (10:42)", "body": "I am forty, an architect, and live in Johannesburg, South Africa. I am single, and am owned by two nutty german shepherds."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Anneother", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (10:43)", "body": "I am forty, an architect, and live in Johannesburg, South Africa. I am single, and am owned by two nutty german shepherds."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Anneother", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (10:47)", "body": "I promise I only submitted once, don't know what happened"}, {"response": 21, "author": "jane", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (10:54)", "body": "I have been following the PPBB since August, in its infancy when it was still possible to keep up with the posts and even get some work done. I am a molecular biologist at a biotechnology company in the Boston area. I am 38, married to an Englishman (more Knightley than Darcy). I have a 2 year old daughter, Eve. I am overwhelmed by how generous people have been about offering our group temporary homes, and how enterprising several of the group members are about keeping things going. Jane"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (10:58)", "body": "Hi everyone we know each other quit well indeed. Homemaker: children and hubby recently three and forty from NortheastPa."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (11:03)", "body": "Hi guys I'm here! My name is Rebecca, 22, in my final year at Ryerson University for magazine journalism. Ready to be addicted again."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (11:36)", "body": "Hi everyone, I got hooked on the BB in August. I am 32 years old and I am a secretary at the University of Virginia."}, {"response": 25, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (11:38)", "body": "Hi, I'm Amy 2 from L.A. I'm a screenwriter who works in the film business, and a complete Austen fanatic. I think that Martin Amis said if he had to be stranded on a desert island with a book, then let it be P&P, and that's my view!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (11:45)", "body": "Hi everyone. Thanks Terry for providing us with a new home. (Do you realise what you have let yourself in for ?). I'm 31 and a lecturer (Assistant Prof.) in Inorganic Chemistry at Queen Mary and Westfield College (part of University of London). Been a JA addict for about 10 years and have been pestering the BB for about 2 months."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (11:46)", "body": "Hi everyone. Thanks Terry for providing us with a new home. (Do you realise what you have let yourself in for ?). I'm 31 and a lecturer (Assistant Prof.) in Inorganic Chemistry at Queen Mary and Westfield College (part of University of London). Been a JA addict for about 10 years and have been pestering the BB for about 2 months."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (11:49)", "body": "I don't know why the message showed up twice. I only submitted it once, honest!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (12:37)", "body": "I am Katy - so far as I know older than anyone who has stated an age and therefore not about to state mine. I have read JA since I was a teenager - learned from my mother who read JA all the way through once a year all her reading life. I am a computer professional - would be glad to help with the board if I can in any way."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (13:51)", "body": "Katy, thanks for volunteering. I don't believe that I have you on my list. (A list, a list I have a little list) Please e-mail your e-mail at clsneed@ix.netcom.com Thanks!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (15:21)", "body": "Katy, ignore the above message,I've got your e-mail address (duh!). You're officially On The List! Thanks."}, {"response": 32, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (15:45)", "body": "Hello Everyone, it so nice to all be back My name in Michalene but you'll see me logged on as Mich. I'm one & thirty. I only found out about Austin after seeing P&P2 but I'm so happy I did. Amy's board has help keep my obsession manageable which I greatly appreciate. I run a computer integration company in San Francisco where my main focus is keeping the operational side of the house running smoothly. I'm originally from Idaho but moved to California 10 years ago.I hated the snow in Idaho. I'm using netscape and PSI on a frame relay 128K circuit. I work alot so Hobbies are few. Your all such a nice group of people.I really enjoy the time I spend with you. Thanks! Mich"}, {"response": 33, "author": "EricB", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (16:09)", "body": "For those of you who have missed my introductions on the late, lamented P&P2 BB of Amy's, I am LT Eric B. Verhulst, Chaplain Corps, U.S. Navy Reserve serving at U.S. Naval Air Station Sigonella, Sicily (if you look for it on a map, you probably won't find it, but it's near Catania). I moved here one year ago from a small town (20 people, counting my family of five) after joining the Navy 1 Oct 95. I have three children (Dana, 8; Roger, 6; Brant, 3) a wife (Barb, age classified). I am 32. I find making sermons very agreeable, but also play wargames, make snide comments, gossip, watch movies based on JA novels, read JA novels, and dink around on computers. I do sometimes walk sideways commenting on the cost of window glazing as well, but am in no other wise similar to Mr. Collins."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Louise", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (16:36)", "body": "How wonderful to find you all here...especially since I still cannot find a way into Pemberley to join for chat. I am, at 43, a part time writer, full-time mother of 2, overwhelmed volunteer, and a confirmed nightowl who stays up too late engrossed in a book or bounding around the web gobbling up Austen/PP2 links. Darcy and I have been meeting at Pemberley (only imagining those longing looks) for 30 years (cripes, I sound like a crone), and he and Lizzy and the gang have stood by me throughout my many incarnations. Thank you Amy for all your kind efforts to keep us together. Alabama bred, Washington beltway bound - Louise"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Saman", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (17:37)", "body": "I missed you all so much!!!! Fortunately I was able to console myself with the tapes, which my parents bought me for my birthday (they *finally* got the hint). While watching them I kept wanting to run over to the computer and share my thoughts on various scenes with you, and I'm so glad that we can all reconvene! By way of an introduction, I'm 20 and have just finished a degree in Physiology. I live in Wellington, New Zealand. Saman :)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (17:50)", "body": "Hi, I'm a 58 year old homemaker from the Maryland suburbs of Washington, D.C., with grown children scattered around the country. Formerly British (I finally became American three years ago) I've been an Austen fan since I was 12 at school. I still have my copy of P&P that I won as a school prize - leather bound with gold edges - but also have two other copies of it as well as a complete set of all Austen's books. Many thanks to Terry and Spring for allowing us in here, to Alicia for your beating heart board, and especially to Amy for collecting us all around her in the first place. So many agreeable people - I'm quite enraptured!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "kathleen", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (19:42)", "body": "So glad to find you all well and contented. I live in western Maryland, and I teach Mathematics & Actuarial Science at a small state University. Jane Austen is one of my passions, probably the longest lived and most consistent. It's great to have a group to discuss JA, P&P, and P&P2 with -- none of my friends are of like mind! I must just add my grateful thanks to the nice people here at Spring for inviting us in (out of the cold)."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (22:06)", "body": "I have finally found my way in here today, and I'm glad to find so many of you here. The last day or two I have been quite despondent about missing you. I feel I hardly need to introduce myself as I fear I have a reputation, either to live up to, or to put down, depending on who you are. However, in short, I live in Canberra, Australia, with my husband and 3 kids. As well, I'm a sometime relief teacher, and puppet maker. Please email me if you would like to."}, {"response": 39, "author": "DonnaT", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (00:50)", "body": "I feel home again, like when we moved to our new house, the people are familiar but the surroundings arent, but well worth the adapting. I am 46 (did I say that?) and live in Las Vegas Nv. Have been an Austen fan since 14 and I agree with an earlier comment, if I have to do with one book my entire life let it be P & P , ditto for P & P 2. Spring in November, I like it !!!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (11:01)", "body": "I'm Paul Terry Walhus, chief cook and bottle washer for the Spring, which is at http://www.spring.com My email is mailto://terry@spring.com I live in a big house in the country outside of Austin which I'm turning into an \"Internet Cottage\"; we create websites for folks and provide consulting and other services. My interests are fitness activities, basketball, reading and writing, making videos and converting them into animations on the web, dancing, music, camping and hiking, ham radio (ka6atn), and walking."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Stefanie", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (13:14)", "body": "Terry, Have you ever read Pride and Prejudice or any Austen?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (14:27)", "body": "Hi All, So glad to be back among you at last!! I am two and fifty; an obsessive P&P fan; a resident of the Mid-Hudson Valley of New York; a programmer (main frame operating system, almost PC illiterate, unfortunately); married to a lovely man who patiently puts up with this obsession. Besides Jane Austen, I love music and I'm a professional volunteer. A hearty thank you to Terry and Spring for providing us with this temporary home. I was beginning to have severe withdrawal symptoms."}, {"response": 43, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (16:02)", "body": "Hello! My name is Cat. I am just 18 and am a senior. I live in South Florida with my parents and 2 younger brothers. I plan to go to Cornell or Harvard when I graduate. After which I want to go to vet school and become a Horse vet. I enjoy singing, horseback riding, reading classic novels (especially JA), and listening to music."}, {"response": 44, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (18:23)", "body": "Putting me on the spot, eh! No, I haven't read any of the books but I've got it on my list to pick up a good compilation of all here works the next time I go to the bookstore."}, {"response": 45, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (18:52)", "body": "Hey, Terry, there's always some Austen stuff over at the Half-Price books store on 31st and Guadelupe. I guess this message would only be on topic in an Austen-Austin conference, right? [Boris Badunov voice: \"Vee make little choke here\".]"}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (21:34)", "body": "Great idea, is there one particular compilation that folks recommend?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "pemberley", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (21:42)", "body": "Hello, Thanks so much Terry for offering this new service. Those regular P&P2 BB devotees won't have seen me before as I was too shy to respond, a lurker you might say. I have a Jane Austen page too thanks to my server HunterLink."}, {"response": 48, "author": "pemberley", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (21:47)", "body": "Terry, You may be able to purchase \"The Complete Novels of Jane Austen\" first published by Penguin Books in 1983. For those on a meagre income like me this is a good value introduction to all of JA's wonderful novels."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (22:32)", "body": "That's right HC and Terry both are in Austin. Terry, if he gets too snide and nasty will you go over there and put a virus in his machines -- just stay away from the files comprising the JA info page."}, {"response": 50, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (23:42)", "body": "Maybe HC would like to go on our Electric Minds outing on Sixth Street on the Sixth of December at 6 pm. We only have 5 folks so far and are looking for a sixth."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (23:46)", "body": "Maybe HC would like to go on our Electric Minds outing on Sixth Street on the Sixth of December at 6 pm. We only have 5 folks so far and are looking for a sixth. _____________ Terry what a great nerd thing to do. Sounds like a nerd friend's plan to celebrate his billionth second on earth."}, {"response": 52, "author": "facslady", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (00:00)", "body": "Hi! My name is Robin and I am 32 years old. I've been a Jane Austen fan for about five or six years now. I first saw P&P as the b&w version with Sir Laurence Olivier (sp?) and then saw the 1995 version in January 1996 here in the US on A&E. I own the tape boxed set and the laser disc. I am in love with Mr. Darcy and *those thighs* but some of the photos I've seen of the *real* Colin Firth don't get my heart racing like Darcy!! I was in biotechnology here in the Bay Area, but have quit to become (hop fully) a full-time student at Stanford."}, {"response": 53, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (00:03)", "body": "By the way that outing is at Katy Bloom's Irish Pub. On Dec 6th at 6 on Sixth Street."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (02:31)", "body": "I have a new title, because I wanted to jump on RW and HC's Fake title bandwagon...I am now \"The Bloodthirsty Hindu Goddess Kali-Durga,\" or BHGKD, for short...don't ask, just use it! - BHGKD ;)"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (09:51)", "body": "Kali, I missed the whole fake title bandwagon sessions. Please fill us in. Who is RW? How many people are chatting pseudonymonously? Is it right, cool, entertaining, annoying? Depends who is doing it? Actually do in the the Best of Chat conf if you could. Amy [ Alicia's Temp Site ] [ Links ] [FAQ] [ Live Chat in the Pemberley Drawing Room ]"}, {"response": 56, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (11:37)", "body": "Moi, snide and nasty?? Amy, you have obviously confused me with someone else..."}, {"response": 57, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (12:18)", "body": "Hi, I am a legal assistant (after some other former occupations all related to condominium associations). Our home has been in the San Diego CA area these last 20 years, but of course, we came here from somewhere else originally. We just married off the second of two daughters. This, of course, is the one who when I was watching P&P2 would wander into the room and say \"Again!!\" First read Pride and Prejudice in high school (I am past one and fifty, but won't say how far). I had always enjoyed the Greer G rson movie but never bothered to compare the book and the movie. P&P2 captured my interest simply because it was a 'period' movie (costumes, scenery, music, etc) but the actors were absolutely awesome and the wonderful part was that I had never heard of any of them. True testimony to their execution of the roles. I have enjoyed all the side-trips into clothing, carriages, entail, status of women..that Amy's BB provided. Want to thank Terry for giving this group a new home. My sister lives in Austin, T , beautiful area to visit. My compliments to all the contributors, you are a joy I am glad I found in learning how the internet works."}, {"response": 58, "author": "carolee", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (16:32)", "body": "Hi, I'm Carol To echo Mary's response I also live in San Diego and am past one and fifty although not yet one and sixty. I am a C.P.A. by profession and an Anglophile by inclination. I live alone and have been a JA fan since high school but nothing has gotten to me quite like this version of P&P. Would love to hear from any of you. E Mail is carolee@FIA.net"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Sarahmem", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (20:56)", "body": "Greetings, fellow ladies and gentlemen, I have been following this BB since its early life, though I have not posted much since the last showing of P&P2 when the BB got so busy and I seemed to fall into the lurker category- so much going on in real life I could hardly keep up!!! I am ever thankful for Amy's persistence and Terry's hospitality. I live in Memphis (with THE KING - and YES, he lives) and work in a hospital. Am looking forward to free holiday time to spend with my fellow addicted friends. Wish I was in Austin - sounds like an intere ting evening planned for the 6th!! Sarahmem (used to be just Sarah)"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Sarahmem", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (20:58)", "body": "Greetings, fellow ladies and gentlemen, I have been following this BB since its early life, though I have not posted much since the last showing of P&P2 when the BB got so busy and I seemed to fall into the lurker category- so much going on in real life I could hardly keep up!!! I am ever thankful for Amy's persistence and Terry's hospitality. I live in Memphis (with THE KING - and YES, he lives) and work in a hospital. Am looking forward to free holiday time to spend with my fellow addicted friends. Wish I was in Austin - sounds like an intere ting evening planned for the 6th!! Sarahmem (used to be just Sarah)"}, {"response": 61, "author": "miki", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (00:24)", "body": "Hi, My name is Annemiek, I am 41, and live in the Netherlands. I run the help-desk of a computer network for a small organisation for physical planning and housing. I have been addicted to P&P2 since it was shown on Dutch television (sept. 96). I am only just starting on the Internet (still a bit shy) and my first purpose was of course looking for information on P&P2. I was so glad to find the link to the discussion and support group for hopelessy addicted. I never knew such groups existed!"}, {"response": 62, "author": "miki", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (00:25)", "body": "Hi, My name is Annemiek, I am 41, and live in the Netherlands. I run the help-desk of a computer network for a small organisation for physical planning and housing. I have been addicted to P&P2 since it was shown on Dutch television (sept. 96). I am only just starting on the Internet (still a bit shy) and my first purpose was of course looking for information on P&P2. I was so glad to find the link to the discussion and support group for hopelessy addicted. I never knew such groups existed!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (13:56)", "body": "I never introduced myself. But I hope you all know who I am. I am on the Austen List, Firth List, I was one of the first posters to the Bulletin Board. I live in Boston, MA. I started reading Austen this past January (I had no clue about the miniseries until March), totally fell in love with her style of writing. Moved on to Forster, Defoe, Dickens, Ondaatje, Carr (A Month in the Country). I have been a huge Colin Firth Fan for about 9 years. I first saw him in Valmont, liked that movie much better than Dangerous Liaisons. I have a 6 year old daughter, Rebecca. Who was sent home today from school, because she has a cough. I also just joined the Fiennes list, but they talk way too much. Laura M."}, {"response": 64, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (17:35)", "body": "The Fiennes people talk more than we do? I am all astonishment!"}, {"response": 65, "author": "candace", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (22:13)", "body": "Hi -- I am three and forty. An accountant for an Educational Lobbying firm in Sacramento, California. I have been married for fifteen years to the best man that I have ever known. We have one child, a 13 year old son. The accounting fits in well with my analytical side, but my creative side makes hats and lace gloves. I never read any JA until seeing the Mini Series, then was totally hooked, I'm now working my way through all of JA's novels. I found the BB on the very first day that our internet was hooked p, happy thoughts indeed! Since then I have grown to love you all quite like family."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Bells", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (09:24)", "body": "Hi I've been skulking in the background for a while - so here goes my bold leap onto the page! I'm not yet eight and twenty, an exploration geologist working in Orange NSW (yes, another Aussie). I first read P&P at age 10 and loathed it - I tossed it aside several times before finally reaching the end. Since then I've read it at least once a year. Happily, all I have to do now is hit the rewind button. I have a dreadful feeling that my email is incorrect in the login - so if any kind souls could tell me via he conference how to rectify this (?newbies discussion)I'd be most grateful. This not being the case, emails are much enjoyed!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (09:49)", "body": "Is your email mailto:Bells@203.21.9.32 If not, just post it in a response following the form above and folks will be able to email you. I'll see if there's a way to change your email."}, {"response": 68, "author": "saskia", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (09:58)", "body": "Hi, I am Saskia and live in Belgium. I am 29 years old and married to Tom who complains that I talk about nothing else than Jane Austen, Pride & Prejudice and this group. We have three cats: Darcy ( the handsomest and very proud!), Bingley (the cuddliest) and Mr. Collins (the silliest), a dog and sheep. I am very fond of everything Jane Austen wrote, but especially of Pride & Prejudice. We had P&P2 on television in September and I\ufffdve been addicted to it from the first moment. And felt very lonely, because nobody else seemed to have seen it. To survive I keep a teddy-bear-shop, do lay-out and copy-writing-work and make translations."}, {"response": 69, "author": "saskia", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (10:13)", "body": "Forgive me, I only wanted to add my feelings of gratitude to the inspiring and organizing people of this group (Amy, Terry, Alicia,...) and to everybody posting here. I'm so happy since I found you all!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Bells", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (14:15)", "body": "Hi Terry Thanks for your response. Yes, the email is incorrect ... think it's some sort of DNS number (it leapt into the empty box on the login page, quite without my knowing it!). My main email is in fact belindap@cadia.newcrest.com.au. Second email is Bperry@cww.octec.org.au Thanks so much for your help."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (18:42)", "body": "Hello to all you P&P, and JA adicts. I come to you all from my adopted state of SC. I have lived in many locations, but am originally from Princeton, NJ. I am nine and thirty. I am a wife. I have a computer brain husband, so if you need asistance Amy or Terry, please let me know. I am a computer novice, but have been a lurker to the board since August. I have a four year old daughter. I am currently in grad school for nurse family nurse practioner. I hope to have my MSN in a year. I don't think I can do a thesis on JA!. I am honoured to have the pleasure of your company."}, {"response": 72, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (19:51)", "body": "RE: changing your e-mail address - this is possible to do from one of the main menu selections - something like \"change personal info\", BUT I think that the problem is that it does not take effect in conferences that you are already joined to. The only way I've found to make it take effect is the resign from the conference, change the info, and then re-join. But then, all of your place markers are re-set to the beginning, so be aware that you will have to display everything all over again before your \"n w\" option will work."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (13:10)", "body": "Hello! My name is Caroline,I am not three and forty,and I am a substitute teacher- Beaver Leader-ordinateurly impaired inhabitant of the Ottawa Valley.Igrew up in England, first read P&P when I was thirteen and have been a JA addict ever since. My own best of men is more Fredrick Wentworth than Darcy, and my life more like the Harville's than the Bingley's but I was never happier in my life than I am now.I got into P&P2 via my sister in UK, who would, I think, have been a proficient Colin-ist if she had ever learnt(to use a computer). Like Byron, I love the way letter-writing \"combines solitude with good company\" Do you think he would have enjoyed our group?."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (13:10)", "body": "Hello! My name is Caroline,I am not three and forty,and I am a substitute teacher- Beaver Leader-ordinateurly impaired inhabitant of the Ottawa Valley.Igrew up in England, first read P&P when I was thirteen and have been a JA addict ever since. My own best of men is more Fredrick Wentworth than Darcy, and my life more like the Harville's than the Bingley's but I was never happier in my life than I am now.I got into P&P2 via my sister in UK, who would, I think, have been a proficient Colin-ist if she had ever learnt(to use a computer). Like Byron, I love the way letter-writing \"combines solitude with good company\" Do you think he would have enjoyed our group?."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (13:12)", "body": ""}, {"response": 76, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (13:15)", "body": "Oops! I didn't submit twice, but got a transfer interruption which seemed to re-set itself......"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (13:18)", "body": "Oops! I didn't submit twice, but got a transfer interruption which seemed to re-set itself......"}, {"response": 78, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (13:23)", "body": "Or, Joan, you can do a fixseen if you are a shell user. And I'll happily set up a shell account to anyone who is a regular contributor on the Spring!"}, {"response": 79, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (17:14)", "body": "Thanks Terry, but the people who need this feature most are those who are coming in brand new, and are not sure whether or not they even want to stay. There is no way that people can tell how their \"full name\" and other info are going to be displayed until they have come into a conference - and then if they decide they would rather use their nickname as their ID or \"real name\", it will take them some time before they discover how to change those things, and by then they may have several conference to resign from, make the changes, and re-display everything. (The current version of Caucus - including WebCaucus - gives users the option or re-setting their pointers so that everything is seen, OR so that everything up to a specified date is marked as seen. a very useful option - it is also offered automatically each time a person joins a new conference.)"}, {"response": 80, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (17:59)", "body": "Interesting, we once used Caucus as our conferencing software."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:03)", "body": "Terry, I suppose Dave competes with WebCaucus, and likely plans to incorporate many of its features in his new version of Yapp. We ought to help him come up with a competitive edge that would serve us as well. Marketeers! Draw your swords. We have some good brains here. Amy"}, {"response": 82, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:12)", "body": "Like I've said a few times. With Dave, you'll get what you ask for. It's like rubbing the magic lamp and making a wish that comes true. And the yapp conference is the place to make your wishes."}, {"response": 83, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:19)", "body": "Terry: Interesting, we once used Caucus as our conferencing software (Which I why I brought it up - hoping it might clarify of what I was speaking.)"}, {"response": 84, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:42)", "body": "I'm very familiar with Caucus. They use it pretty successfully on Echo. The Echoids swear by it."}, {"response": 85, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:47)", "body": "] Terry: I'm very familiar with Caucus. I'm also excessively familliar with (though not excessively fond of) Caucus."}, {"response": 86, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (23:22)", "body": "I've never officially introduced myself, and this seems like as good a time as any, so... I am Kathleen Grant (using my e-mail name of Kaffeine in deference to the other Kathleen on the board). I am 34, and married. By profession I am the Web Coordinator at the Ford Production System area at Ford Motor Company. By obsession I am spending way too much time on this board and at the chat room (and loving every minute of it!). My mother gave me a complete set of Austen's work about a year ago, but I didn't get around to reading any until this past June when I broke my ankle and had a lot of time on my hands. I read \"Emma\" first, and then proceeded to devour the rest of her work. (A late bloomer, I guess) I found the P&P2 board back in August, but just lurked as I had not yet seen the mini-series. I must admit, that as tragic as the 2nd crashing of the P&P2 board was, I am happy about the first one - that's when several peop e from there stopped by my Jeremy Northam site, and I finally became an active participant in this Austen mania! Thanks very much to everyone (especially Amy) who have made me feel so welcome here!"}, {"response": 87, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (01:04)", "body": "Terry / David ; with respect to the sign-up screen, I expected that the name I specified as my nickname (anna) would be used as my pseudonym and my full name would appear in parentheses, if at all. Maybe if you changed the sign-on screens to check which name a new user wants to use as their default nick-name for the conferences you coud avoid most of the hassle with pseudonyms. The other thing about sign-up and defaults concerns the email address. Austen is a very friendly group and I don't mind having my email address as a tag here, but in some conferences I wouldn't want that to happen. I am happy for spring to have my email address if you want it for admin/security reasons, but have you considered giving people the option of not displaying it in conferences? This might be more important if junk email takes off in a big way."}, {"response": 88, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (01:33)", "body": "(Also, some of our members are minors, whose parents to not look kindly on having their e-mail addresses posted publicly. On the basis of those who have admitted their ages, we have a minimum 47 year age span here!)"}, {"response": 89, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (06:27)", "body": "Joan: The age span could be much greater if you include OJ who is not 1 year old yet"}, {"response": 90, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (07:08)", "body": "Anna, I've responded to your query about email in he yapp conference. You've given Dave some good ideas for enhancements to the next version of Yapp."}, {"response": 91, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (11:38)", "body": "Hello fellow lover of P&P and JA. As mentioned on Amy's BB, I am not but close to six-and-thirty, mother of a 3 year old daughter (which I project will become acquainted with JA VERY SOON) and sharing life and some passions with my similar-to-Mr. Bingley's husband. A secretary, and in between jobs, I just finished a one year intensive college program and thus upgrading my skills. I I dabble in editing, producing my daughter's daycare center monthly newsletter and actively giving time to well deserving cau es for people in need of a little warmth in there lives. Finding Eliza's personnality very similar to my own, I'm impetuous and passionate, particularly on everything related to history and thus period piece. As the season to be jolly approach with as quick as Darcy's steps returning to Rosings Park after is decable with Lizzy, may I urge you all to share as much as you possibly can, \"a little will suffice\", with someone who needs it, espacially children, poverty is expanding so rapidly and fellow woman/man can bring so much : joy. Francophone and anglophile, school versed me more in French Litt, I discovered JA through my interest(love) in the movie Emma. P&P2 was broadcasted on SRC here in Montreal, Quebec in October and got COMPLETELY SUBDUED by the actors (unknown to me then), their interpretation of the novel and the lavish production. From then on, I devored all but one novel (Mansfield Park) which I plan to start soon and recently went on a bookshopping spree on the classic Middlemarch, Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights and Great xpectations and the likes. Discovered first Mr. HC page and then, with all astonishments, Amy's wonderful P&P2 BB. Lurking more than posting, the latter requires my English/French dictionary and a lot more time than usual, and therefore not expressing all I have bottled up inside (makes me more shy but I must conquer this) but finding very similar comments from other addicts. Enjoying every moments in your company and kindred spirits among this bunch. Wished for 48/72 hours days so I can indulge further in my prefered hobby (my daily fix of this and the tapes), this chatting and exchanging group with so many great people. As always grateful to Amy, Alicia and now Terry. And... ..., in vain I have struggled. It will not do. My feelings will not be repressed. You must allow me to tell you that Mr. Darcy lives. I met him about ten years ago, same voice, same accent and (almost) same face (eyes, mouth, chin, dark hair) and need I say what more. Unfortunetaly, he left for another country and my love story did not have a JA's happy ending. So you can imagine what it is to watch this. Took me a while to get over it, as Captain Wentworth says : you can not forget, but did find a nice a d comprehensive Mr. Bingley which, when I became older and more mature, I learn to love and appreciate a less passionnate but very true love (maybe like the Gardiner's one). He'll love me till I'm four-and-sixty (Beatles) and so will I. Sorry for the looonnnnggg post, but I'm sure you'll excuse me, this one serving for all the others I intended to send."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (11:43)", "body": "Oh, Johanne. Go on. Give in to the urge. It will do you good."}, {"response": 93, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (11:47)", "body": "As you probably understood, mispelling : debacle, not decable (it is certainly not Jim-Cable-Guy addiction were having here)"}, {"response": 94, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (15:19)", "body": "Hello! My name is Lisa and I also hail from Montreal. I'm 24 years old and am currently studying to earn an accounting designation. I became a Jane Austen fanatic after viewing P&P2 on A&E in August. Ever since I have read all her books except for Persuasion. However, I must say that may favorite is Pride & Prejudice. I was extremely happy that the TV version remained so faithful to the book but I was a little upset that it didn't feature the part at the end when Lizzie asks Darcy when he first fell in lo e with her. Those would have been terrific scenes! I have been a lurker on Amy's BB since September and have enjoyed everyone's comments tremendously. You all have such fascinating insight and have made me appreciate and understand P&P more than I ever thought imagineable. I never thought I could love fictional characters so much but I find myself engrossed in their lives and feelings. I want to thank you all for giving me such enjoyment in the past few months and for providing Darcy and Lizzie fans with place to convene and discuss their obssession."}, {"response": 95, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (15:26)", "body": "Thanks for coming out, Lisa. And welcome, officially."}, {"response": 96, "author": "PatK", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (15:30)", "body": "I live in a Dallas suburb and do software (mainframe) support for a major software company. I discovered JA after P&P2 so came to her late as I am five and forty. I am happily single with two dogs for company. My sister and her two kids live close by so I try to be a good aunt. I grew up in the military and then joined the Navy after a couple of years of college so continued to move. I finished my degree in comp sci and worked for an oil company for 12 years which meant more moving. I've been in Dallas for 8 years and plan to stay in Texas. Other than P&P2, JA, this grou and CF -- my interests include science fiction books (Asimov, McCaffrey, Eddings, Lackey, Card, Niven, Herbert) and shows (Star Trek, TNG, DS9, Voyager and Babylon 5), reading in general, music, puzzles, videos and playing on the PC. I use Netscape Gold 3.0 to access this happy stuff through Internet America."}, {"response": 97, "author": "PatK", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (15:30)", "body": "I live in a Dallas suburb and do software (mainframe) support for a major software company. I discovered JA after P&P2 so came to her late as I am five and forty. I am happily single with two dogs for company. My sister and her two kids live close by so I try to be a good aunt. I grew up in the military and then joined the Navy after a couple of years of college so continued to move. I finished my degree in comp sci and worked for an oil company for 12 years which meant more moving. I've been in Dallas for 8 years and plan to stay in Texas. Other than P&P2, JA, this grou and CF -- my interests include science fiction books (Asimov, McCaffrey, Eddings, Lackey, Card, Niven, Herbert) and shows (Star Trek, TNG, DS9, Voyager and Babylon 5), reading in general, music, puzzles, videos and playing on the PC. I use Netscape Gold 3.0 to access this happy stuff through Internet America."}, {"response": 98, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (15:46)", "body": "Welcome Pat, I'm your neighbor to the South in Austin. Have fun here!"}, {"response": 99, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (21:58)", "body": "To Lisa C. and Johanne, Salut! Bienvenue! Nous sommes presque voisins...... Cela fait longtemps depuis que nous vous n'avons pas regarde puis, c'est tres gentille de vous de nous rendre visite............ And that, I promise is the last time I attempt French without a proper keyboard... Its great to know that our numbers are growing."}, {"response": 100, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (15:05)", "body": "A Caroline Evans Merci de votre accueil! Pardonnez-moi pour mes fautes de grammaire. Ca fait six ans que je n'ai pas \ufffdcris une composition en fran\ufffdais parce que j'ai pris mes \ufffdtudes coll\ufffdgiales en anglais. De plus, je ne suis pas d'origine fran\ufffdaise. Mes parents viennent de l'Italie et ma langue maternelle est anglaise. I'd like to thank you for making me feel so welcomed and for conversing in a different language. This indicates to me that the love we feel for Darcy and Lizzie crosses all borders and that a good story can be enjoyed by all cultures."}, {"response": 101, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (15:29)", "body": "Some of Jane Austen's novels were already translated into French in the 1810's and 1820's, but I doubt whether she got any royalties from the translations, and apparently some of the translators felt free t use a free hand in \"improving\" her novels (I think I remember reading that at least one of them added in passionate scenes of the type that some of you are disappointed that Austen didn't write...)."}, {"response": 102, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (15:37)", "body": "] translated into French in the 1810's and 1820's, but I doubt whether she got any royalties from the translations, and apparently some of the translators felt free t use a free hand in \"improving\" her novels (I think I remember reading that at least one of them added in passionate scenes _____________________ Tell, tell H."}, {"response": 103, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (15:42)", "body": "I've told everything I remember. You can look up the article on translations of Jane Austen (titles \"Jane Austen Abroad\", or something like that) in the bibliographies on my site..."}, {"response": 104, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (15:45)", "body": "] I've told everything I remember. ________________- So what? I can still pout, can't I? I can still be Mary Musgrove. You are so unkind."}, {"response": 105, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (22:48)", "body": "Tr\ufffds ch\ufffdres Lisa et Caroline, vous me voyez des plus heureuses de pouvoir partager cette passion avec vous, charmantes voisines ainsi que ces quelques mots dans la langue de Moli\ufffdre. How conforting to find fellow addicts around the corner and that this jolly group is spreading at such a rate in our global village. By the way, Kaffeine, your were the first web page I found on my first day on the internet, re. Emma thus J. Northam. Keep up the good work. It looks like a small world, doesnt it? To Sir H.C., much interested in translation you mention above. Unfortunately, did not find the matching coordinates in your bibliography. Any more info you can give me on this? Should I inquire on the Net, maybe in Europe (France) for more details? Any leads by anyone appreciated. If I find anything, be sure to be inform. Leaving for Europe (virtually), be back soon Tahtah"}, {"response": 106, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (09:55)", "body": "How delightful to see French scrolling across the screen. Bon voyage, I would love to open an entirely French speaking conference some day."}, {"response": 107, "author": "Trenton", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (12:56)", "body": "I am still \"all astonishment!\" I can't believe how much A&E's production of Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice has influenced me; during my University years, I avoided Austen's work, judging it to be shallow, categorizing Pride and Prejudice as a typical Nineteenth Century romance novel. Indeed, the high-society setting and matrimonial subject matter are normally very big turn-offs for me, yet I must admit that I enjoyed Pride and Prejudice. It seems that Austen's work translates to the screen extremely well, enhancing at least my com rehension of the larger themes she is trying to express-- something I just didn't obtain when I first read this work in school. This newly acquired influence has led me to purchase a collection of Jane Austen's work (and discover this conference). The second reading confirmed my change of heart, from \"all dreariness\" to \"all astonishment!\" Warmest Regards, Trenton A. Scott Aged: 31 years Occupation: Software Engineer Living in: Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA Undergraduate: B.S., Computer Science Technology, University of Southern Colorado Post-graduate: M.S., Computer Information Systems, Colorado State University Internet: Trenton_Scott@msn.com"}, {"response": 108, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (12:31)", "body": "Terry, regarding : \"I would love to open an entirely French speaking conference some day\", I would absolutely appreciate it a very great deal. I must share to you that I'm now close to completely internet illiterate. Can log in and barely surf. But do not despair, planning to take a crash course in a few weeks. Having done three years of College condensed in the last one, let say I take a break from feeding my brain while urgently looking for a job and infringing on my sleep with other tasks. But I am truly dedi ated (hooked) on this addiction, most interested in this and will surely reply favorably to your request in a very near future. Wondering who else would be interested, anyone out there whishing to talkle this in la langue de Moli\ufffdre instead of Shakespeare ? How about a survey to if any demand for it. And Caroline, what did you think of the translation ? Lisa, have you seen both and if so, pray tell me your comments."}, {"response": 109, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (13:45)", "body": "To Johanne de Montr\ufffdal I was only able to catch the last three episodes of P&P on SRC. I have to say that I found the translation to be excellent and enjoyed it immensely. I was trying to figure out who \"played\" the role of Darcy. His voice sounded very familiar to me but I couldn't make it out. When I found out that it was going to be broadcasted on SRC I was delighted because I was interested in seeing the missing scenes that A&E didn't show. I was, and still am too cheap to purchase an original version! I noticed however tha SRC edited some of the scenes with Mr. Collins out as well. What a shame for I find him to be so comically condescending. En tous cas, cela son mes br\ufffdves commentaires. J'ai un examen ce soir et je devrais me concenter sur \ufffda et non pas sur cette passion qui me pr\ufffdoccupe la majorit\ufffd du temps. Passez une belle journ\ufffde et \ufffd la prochaine fois!"}, {"response": 110, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (13:47)", "body": "Query: Who is the French Jane Austen?"}, {"response": 111, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (16:09)", "body": "Henry, could you elaborate - nature of your question, please"}, {"response": 112, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (16:19)", "body": "What's the French-language author who is most analogous to Jane Austen in English literature? Doesn't necessarily have to be 18th or 19th century or female, but extra points if that's the case... :-)"}, {"response": 113, "author": "Nicole", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (17:46)", "body": "Bonjour Johanne, Lisa, Caroline et les autres... D'une autre francaise, de Winnipeg. J'ai vu les emmissions en francais apres les avoir vu en anglais , parce que j'etais addicter par ce temps la, mais une des emmission avait \"pre-emptee\" pour parler de Robert Bourassa, est -ce-qu'el a jouer plus tard sinon les quebecois on du manquer une parti imp- ortante la deuxieme ou troisieme je crois. La translation etait tres bonnes..J . Mais en anglais avec la voix de Colin Firth je peux fondre. Est-ce-que vous regarder presentement Margerite Volant? Commentaire... Je trouve que Margerite a l'apparence un peu dure, Je suis contente qu'elle a finalement epouser la Cap. Shane. Please forgive me my engish friends for not translating this completely, i n french we didn't have the great pleasure of hearing Colin Firth's great voice. In \"Another Country\" his voice didn't sound as mature as it does now. Nicole"}, {"response": 114, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (19:31)", "body": "\"Passez une belle journ\ufffde\" Oh no! Say it isn't so! \"Have a nice day\" has also infiltrated the French language? ;-)"}, {"response": 115, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (21:08)", "body": "Nicole, bienvenue \ufffd bord - welcome abord ! As for the special broadcast regarding Premier Bourassa's death, it was aired during the entire evening thus the P&P (O&P) episode (the third, if not mistaken) was broadcast the following friday. Probably due to lots of complaints. Malheureusement, I'm not following M. Volant. Saw a couple episodes at the beginning of season, was surprise how long it took for the story to pick up speed, \ufffda m'a tout simplement d\ufffdcourag\ufffd. But wonderful costumes and settings for the period piece genre. Still lavish and very good actors. Considering the budget aloud compare to BBC, they're doing miracles with what they have. Remorse : I should have stick to it, will see it on video soon. Dear Joan, if you only knew how americanized our North American French as become, not to mention what goes on in France itself, you would'nt believe... The structure of phrases are more and more constructed and based on english, and yes we too are pleagued with close to illiteracy, loosing grammar, style, structure, etc. Sir HC, will keep you posted for JA's equivalent."}, {"response": 116, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (22:42)", "body": "Is Bourassa ill again?"}, {"response": 117, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (23:03)", "body": "Mr. Bourassa (the former Premier of Quebec) died of cancer a few months ago. He was in his sixties if I'm not mistaken."}, {"response": 118, "author": "Jessica", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (14:28)", "body": "Greetings and salutations! My name is Jessica, and I am a student at Penn State University, working on a degree in Hotel/Restaurant Management (at the moment...this may change). I am not yet twenty, but have been a Jane Austen fan for about 7 years now. I adore the A&E/BBC P&P miniseries--I first saw it last year when my roommate's mom taped it and sent it to her, and have been a fan ever since. I am an avid reader of just about anything I can get my hands on, and I also enjoy music (I play the flute) and \"meddling on the computer,\" as my roommates like to say. I am very glad I found all of you and I would like to contribute whenever I have anything worthwhile to say :-) Thank you to Amy and Terry and all the powers that be for setting up this conference! --Jessica"}, {"response": 119, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (18:17)", "body": "Nicole....\"Another Country\" in the \"Have you noticed....\" thread. AS-tu vu le nouveau fil de Johanne(de Montreal)?"}, {"response": 120, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (22:20)", "body": "Welcome Jessica, I'm 10 minutes into the first intallment of P&P. I'm watching the first commercial."}, {"response": 121, "author": "Nicole", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (23:18)", "body": "Hi Caroline, Yes I noticed your thread, but responded to it all in one message, and have seen Johanne new one and I enjoy your comments very much indeed! Nicole"}, {"response": 122, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (04:55)", "body": "] 10 minutes into the first intallment of P&P. Terry! You warm our hearts."}, {"response": 123, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (09:42)", "body": "]Welcome Jessica, I'm 10 minutes into the first intallment of P&P. I'm watching the first commercial. Terry, Glad to see you got the tapes. Try fast forward. Myretta"}, {"response": 124, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (11:18)", "body": "I'm hoping to see a Packard Bell ad, not luck so far. I got up to the scene with Mrs. PHllips and Mr. Bingeley arrives on horseback. And Mr. D'Arcy is riding off after glancing another one of those looks of astoneishement."}, {"response": 125, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:45)", "body": "So Terry, How is our Aust i nite enjoying being an Aust e nite? From an Aussie Austenite!"}, {"response": 126, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:58)", "body": "It's fun watching this series. On to tape 2!"}, {"response": 127, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (09:55)", "body": "Oh what fun it would be to be able to watch it for the first time again!"}, {"response": 128, "author": "PatK", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (15:30)", "body": "Amy -- FYI, I am trying to incorporate the above data into my P&P2 database with the where/age info already obtained. -- Pat"}, {"response": 129, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (16:27)", "body": "] incorporate the above data into my P&P2 database ___ Thanks, Anne. You may want to talk to Katy, who is thinking about how to redo the bios."}, {"response": 130, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (06:13)", "body": "This thread is damn long."}, {"response": 131, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:52)", "body": "Thanks for lengthening it Kali!"}, {"response": 132, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (21:48)", "body": "Try selecting \"ALL\" and \"NEW\" at the top of the list; that way you only have to read the lastest additions."}, {"response": 133, "author": "norma", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (09:11)", "body": "Greetings to all! I am so happy to have found this group. I have been an Austen fan for thirty years, since first reading P&P. For years I have felt alone in the wilderness with my addiction. My family has regarded me with amused tolerance for years--I have hopes that my daughter will become a fellow addict, however. She also loved all the JA movies. The best thing about A&E's production of P&P is that it has brought fellow addicts out of the closet! I am a teacher in Denver."}, {"response": 134, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (09:53)", "body": "Welcome, Norma. How did you happen to find us? I stopped promoting back in September and so far as I know the only links are from Internet Movie Database, Yahoo, Jane Austen Info page and the Firth FAQ. Amy"}, {"response": 135, "author": "norma", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (11:14)", "body": "Amy, I found you because I was looking! To relax when I get home from work, I like to slip P&P2 into the VCR and watch a few episodes. Those few minutes make the rest of the day tolerable. But like other isolated addicts, I have no one to discuss my addiction with. As I said, I think my daughter is getting there, but she's in college. I found you only recently because I was only connected to the Internet about a week ago. In fact, I am in my classroom at school (between classes), and I am starting a class on the Internet today--a requirement for having it in my classroom."}, {"response": 136, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (16:35)", "body": "Amy, I ran the search command link: http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wwwboard/ppbb.html at http://ultra.infoseek.com/ and got the following results: The AUSTEN-L Mailing List Return to Jane Austen info page *See also the Jane Austen Society *Go to the Pride and Prejudice movie discussion bulletin board *Go to article on AUSTEN-L *Go to an MSNBC article on ... 86% http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austen-l.html (Size 1.0K) Jane Austen's novels: BBC and other Film/Video adaptations \"So she won't be available for book signing?\" -- An anonymous American network executive, on being told that Pride and Prejudice was published for the first time in 1813. 86% http://moe.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/jabbcvid.html (Size 18.9K) Amy Bellinger - Page One Amy Bellinger's Sight This site is divided into a number of parts: The World Nap Organization pages. If you cherish your naps but feel a little guilty about taking them, join our ... 85% http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/ (Size 1.4K) Cinema Sites: Section 2 An Index of Motion Picture and Television Resources 78% http://www.webcom.com/davidaug/Movie_SitesS2.html (Size 25.6K) Jane Austen Info Page Compendious page devoted to Jane Austen, English novelist 1775-1817; has illustrated hypertext of Pride and Prejudice, HTML e-texts of her letters and many `minor works', biographical .. 78% http://curly.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janeinfo.html (Size 39.0K) VoS English Literature: Romantics [IMAGE: Colorful fabric weave] VOICE OF THE SHUTTLE: ENGLISH LITERATURE ROMANTICS (see also French Revolution) [Previous Page] [SEARCH THE SERVER] [Next Page] Main English Page * ... 78% http://humanitas.ucsb.edu/shuttle/eng-rom.html (Size 15.8K) Colin Firth FAQ v. 1.7 Colin Firth FAQ version 1.7 November 15, 1996 Colin Firth Frequently Asked Questions Version 1.7 11/15/96 Compiled by Ellen Armstrong kenellen@teleport.com I. Colin Firth II. Films ... 78% http://www.teleport.com/~kenellen/firthfaq.htm (Size 58.4K) VoS English Literature: Romantics [IMAGE: Colorful fabric weave] VOICE OF THE SHUTTLE: ENGLISH LITERATURE ROMANTICS (see also French Revolution) [Previous Page] [SEARCH THE SERVER] [Next Page] Main English Page * ... 78% http://humanitas.ucsb.edu/shuttle/incoming/eng-rom.htm (Size 15.8K) Voice of the Shuttle: New Links Page oooooo oooo .oooooo..o `888. .8' d8P' `Y8 `888. .8' .ooooo. Y88bo. `888. .8' d88' `88b ``Y8888o. `888.8' 888 888 ``Y88b `888' 888 888 oo .d8P `8' `Y8bod8P' 8``88888P' ooooo ooo ... 78% http://humanitas.ucsb.edu/shuttle/incoming/new.htm (Size 15.8K) Yahoo! - Arts:Humanities:Literature:Genres:Literary Fiction:Authors:Austen, Jane (1775-1817):Pride and Prejudice [Menu Bar] [Click here for Night of the Living Yahoo!] Top:Arts:Humanities:Literature:Genres:Literary Fiction:Authors:Austen, Jane (1775 ... 78% http://www.yahoo.com/Arts/Humanities/Literature/Genres/Literary_Fiction/Authors/Austen__Jane__1775_1817_/Pride_and_Prejudice/ (Size 2.6K) Image Index of http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/ Image Index [`Top 99% of all Web sites (1% are worse): Pointless' parody] [`Enhanced for Lynx' parody] *Return to list of HTML files in this directory Please don't take a lot of these .. 78% http://moe.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/imgindex.html (Size 48.2K) Voice of the Shuttle: New Links Page oooooo oooo .oooooo..o `888. .8' d8P' `Y8 `888. .8' .ooooo. Y88bo. `888. .8' d88' `88b ``Y8888o. `888.8' 888 888 ``Y88b `888' 888 888 oo .d8P `8' `Y8bod8P' 8``88888P' ooooo ooo ... 78% http://humanitas.ucsb.edu/shuttle/new.html (Size 15.8K) Ostentatious Jane's \"Jane Austen\" Page Everything about my favourite author 78% http://www2.hunterlink.net.au/~ddibd/jane/jane.html (Size 6.3K)"}, {"response": 137, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (16:37)", "body": "Of course, http://us.imdb.com/ was not included in the above, because they use CGI instead of static web-pages, I think..."}, {"response": 138, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (16:43)", "body": "HC - Great minds... When I read Amy's post wondering where her page had been found, I did the same thing you did - but you beat me to it! :)"}, {"response": 139, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (16:46)", "body": "Thanks, H. I didn't know Infoseek had that feature. Apparently it gives a more comprehensive result that Alta Vista's, which I checked last several weeks ago; it turned up nothing. How many links are there to the JA info page. Hundreds, I'd imagine."}, {"response": 140, "author": "geekman", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (06:18)", "body": "Amy: In Alta Vista there are so many links to Henry's JA Info page(s) that I think most people wouldn't get past the first 7 or 8 pages without seeing an alternative JA page!"}, {"response": 141, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (14:20)", "body": "Ian, what you're talking about is the results of doing a search on the words \"Jane Austen\", or something similar... What Amy was referring to was finding out the number of external pages that link to ones own page. I just ran the search +link:cc.utexas.edu.churchh.janeinfo.html -host:cc.utexas.edu on Altavista, and all it told me was \"about 1000\". One reason is that my pages have been \"officially\" up since Jan. 1995 (and some people, including Yahoo, started linking to them even before that -- that was when Yahoo was being run out of a Stanford dorm room...)"}, {"response": 142, "author": "mich", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (21:56)", "body": "H.C. I've often wondered how this all came about for you. What got you started and how long did it take to compile? Your page is so comprehensive, I must say it's very impressive. Mich"}, {"response": 143, "author": "AnitaV", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:03)", "body": "Hello! I am an 33 year old American, married with no children hopelessly addicted to P&P(needless to say, my husband does not share my addiction). I have read all of Jane Austen's other books and P&P is my favorite with Sense & Sensibility next. Prior to the 1995 adaptation, BBC produced a version for Masterpiece Theater in 1979. (OOPs, showing my age!) It was while watching that presentation that I fell in love with the story. Imagine my joy when a new adaptation was created. It was a treasure from beginning to end. I have enjoyed \"surfin' the net\" reading all the webpages connected with P&P. Talk to you soon! I did'nt realize what a following the A&E production had until one Friday(it was a slow day at work),I searched the internet for Colin Firth and wound up here."}, {"response": 144, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (16:41)", "body": "Welcome, Anita. You might have found a home."}, {"response": 145, "author": "Kathy", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (18:52)", "body": "Hello, fellow addicts! My name is Kathy Heilmann, and I hail from Los Altos, California, USA (in \"Silicon Valley,\" near San Francisco). I am married, 30-years-old, no kids (yet), Marketing Manager for a high tech company. My fascination with Austen started several years ago (before Austinmania, actually) when I re-read several of her novels while on vacation. But I got seriously addicted when P&P2 came on TV here in the US almost a year ago. I missed the first pair of episodes on TV (didn't make it a high priority), but sat down to watch the second pair of episodes, and was hooked fifteen minutes into it! I couldn't convince my husband to watch with me that evening, but I teased him into watching the third pair of episo es with me the following evening. He got hooked too! Now we are both truly devoted P&P2 fans, and we have converted many of our formerly skeptical friends and family, too. We have watched the complete set (of course we bought the videos) at least a dozen times... I have spent many happy hours perusing Henry Churchyard's excellent Web site, but I had never come here until recently, so I am glad to have found a safe haven for my addiction! It's going to be a Jane Austen Christmas for me, as I've asked for all the old and new film and video adaptations of her novels. I'm anxiously awaiting the release of BBC's Emma, though I don't think that anything could equal the standards set by P&P2! Kathy"}, {"response": 146, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (21:14)", "body": "I'm looking for excuses to procrastinate, and so I'm going to take this opportunity to remedy the fact that I never properly introduced myself here at the Spring. My name is Kali. I am one-and-twenty. I study political science and classical civilization at UC Berkeley. I can't wait to graduate. When I do, I'll move on to an even larger hell in law school. Joy, joy. I hate school. My favorite Austen books are P&P, or course, and Emma. I'm going crazy. I hate finals. ARRRRGGGHHH! - K"}, {"response": 147, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:19)", "body": "Hello, everybody. I've been lurking around here for the last few weeks, since I got on to the Internet at work, and loving every minute of it. I haven't been able to post, however, since we're not allowed to send out messages in any way other than conventional e-mail. But now that I'm set up at home I hope to join in the general silliness from time to time. I'm a technical editor, live in the NYC area, and have been a JA addict since age 14 (eight and twenty years ago--cripes!) and have seen almost all the film/tv adaptations, but none has hooked me like P&P2. And now this conference! Do you folks know how dangerous it is? I don't just mean all the time torn away from work, play, sleep, etc., to go online, but the effects of remembering certain posts at inconvenient times, like when you're on the bus or subway or walking down the street or (disasterously) in business meetings. You start to giggle to yourself, trying to keep it in, but people see your shaking shoulders and facial contortions and begin to eye you uneasily & edge away. I fear my reputation is quite, quite ruined in certain quarters."}, {"response": 148, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:27)", "body": "Welcome Kathy, Kali and Anne III. Three seriously addicted-to-P&P persons! I think you've found your place. Feel free to roam around the big Spring country too. I'll be watching the last in the three part P&P tapes tomorrow night. Tonights an \"off\" night (no P&P tape)."}, {"response": 149, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:50)", "body": "Terry, I've been here for awhile. I'm a pre-Spring P&P'er, so to speak. The other regulars will vouch for that fact. I'm just a procrastinator, finding new reasons not to remove my butt from the computer desk. The other regulars will also vouch for that (esp. the chat room people)...;) - K"}, {"response": 150, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (23:02)", "body": "Kali! Why aren't you studying! Remove your butt instantly from the computer desk. (Yes, she is, indeed, a regular, having logged more cosecutive hours at the computer desk than most could and still be awake to type about it.) vouch, vouch, vouch ;-)"}, {"response": 151, "author": "jane", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (23:15)", "body": "To the new people who have recently introduced yourselves: while of course you are unique and special people, when it comes to your P&P obsession you have described the classic symptoms---we've been there, done that! I bet you recognized yourselves on the \"signs of addiction\" thread. Welcome! Kali, I am glad you formally introduced yourself---I feel I know lots about you from your posts, but didn't know what you were up to in those brief moments when you were out of touch with the Austen board. I'm with Joan, too though---take a short break and then back to the books. We want you to get into a really good law school, and make us all proud. :) Jane"}, {"response": 152, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (23:41)", "body": "Love you guys! ;)"}, {"response": 153, "author": "donr", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (17:01)", "body": "Hello Y'all. I have been following your chatty buletin board for some time with considerable interest. Your discussions have heightened my appreciation of P&P, both the televised drama and the novel. I am a professor of organic chemistry, involved in work quite unrelated to English drama; but over the last several months I have acquired a strong admiration and regard for a most enjoyable story. My interest in P&P goes back to 1985 when my daughters, who were wataching the P&P1 series, talked me into wa ching it along with them. Much to my surprise, I found Elizabeth Garvie's portrayal of Elizabeth to be enjoyable. However, it was not until last February, when I saw Jennifer Ehle's portrayal of Elizabeth, that I was really captivated by the story. Shortly, thereafter, I read the novel which captivated my interest. Relative to the tv edition, I found the last three chapters of the novel to be a source of pure enjoyment. I must say, like countless others before me, Elizabeth Bennet is a very captivating y ung lady."}, {"response": 154, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (19:01)", "body": "Thanks for coming out, Donald. How long have you been with us?"}, {"response": 155, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (19:28)", "body": "We're always glad when someone emerges from the woodwork. One sometimes wonders who lurks there."}, {"response": 156, "author": "mpk", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:45)", "body": "I just found you all today! It's wonderful to find others who are intensely interested in P&P, especially in CF. I'm very much an Internet novice and was motivated to explore the 'net to find CF and/or P&P references. I'm a mom and public interest atty, in that order. P&P has definitely sparked my interest in reading JA books. I've read some of the topics in this \"place\" (forgive my computer lingo ignorance...I'll learn in time) and have thoroughly enjoyed the comments."}, {"response": 157, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (03:51)", "body": "G'day All you Newcomers and You Lurkers!"}, {"response": 158, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (05:35)", "body": "Glad you did find us, Marina. Where are you from?"}, {"response": 159, "author": "eljo", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (05:36)", "body": "Is there room for one more addict??? My name is Elisabeth and I've been a P&P2 addict since it first was aired here in Sweden a year ago. The facination with Jane Austen and her book I guess originates from living in England for a year and discovering Penguins \ufffd1 books. For a living I'm doing a PhD in Materials Engineering but far too much time is spent following this brilliant conference. At the moment I'm suffering from severe withdrawal symtomps since I've had no access to a VCR for more than a month. Luckily thre a some things that can cheer me up, Colin Firth in Nostromo and the adaption of Moll Flanders screenplayed by none other than Andrew Davies."}, {"response": 160, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (05:46)", "body": "Welcome to you, Elisabeth. How long have you been hanging around? Long enough to get to know your charming countrywoman, Ann2, I am sure. We have Anna-Karin on occasion too, but those distinctions matter little here."}, {"response": 161, "author": "donr", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (16:37)", "body": "Amy, thank you for your welcome. I have followed this bulletin board group only for a few weeks. Since last February, however, I have been reading P&P with many real life experiences in mind. I cannot help but be highly amused when I see Darcy making the same mistakes that so many men do, i. e., slighting a young lady when first met who later becomes the love of their life. And then, Elizabeth's response, which makes him dance to her tune until he finally makes amends for his BIG mistake and gains her affection. Jane Austin describes all this in such a delightful way that you cannot help but become almost a part of a the virtual world of the Bennet family, not real but very close to it."}, {"response": 162, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (20:58)", "body": "There are a few Swedish folks hanging out in the TransSoft Mail Control topic in the apps conference (TransSoft is a Swedish company)."}, {"response": 163, "author": "mpk", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (02:41)", "body": "Thank you for your welcome, Amy. I live in South San Francisco with my two daughters and hubby. I can't wait to get my hands on the P&P videotapes that I'll be getting for X-mas. In the meantime, I'm taking some time off from work so I'll head over to the library and check out JA's book. Looking forward to posting some comments on the other topics."}, {"response": 164, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (05:16)", "body": "Donald, another chemist! Where do you teach/work?"}, {"response": 165, "author": "ValR", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (22:07)", "body": "Now, I am no longer a lurker! I discovered P&P on the bookshelf in the library when I was 13. I loved the title and I read it regularly (twice a year!) until my mid twenties.. I'm 39 now, and had for a long time surrendered my love for P&P to Persuasion (admitting that being older, the Anne Elliot was more my style than Lizzy). You can't imagine how excited I was to see P&P1 on Masterpiece theater years ago. I recently bought it and realize now how astonishingly good P&P2 is. I don't have cable, and my Mother bought the tapes for me last January. I received them in March and stayed up all night watching them. (Couldn't turn it off). I have been hanging around this place since early September... (as I said lurking) and am happy to see that there are other addicts to Jane A. I would like to say a heart-felt thank you to the Mysterious H.C. and his work on the Jane Austen sight. I discovered it last May, and it was just what an addict needed."}, {"response": 166, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (00:37)", "body": "Thanks for coming out, Val. Have you found you watch less after having been able to talk it to death?"}, {"response": 167, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (17:35)", "body": "Like Kali, I was first a lurker (since August) on the old P&P2BB, and then a sporadic participant. I have continued in the same fashion here on Spring. I had my 41st BD on 12/5 (five days before Kenneth Branagh's 36th BD). I am the internal purchasing agent for a Warehouse Distribution Managment Software Company in Waukesha, WI (suburb of Milwaukee). Hubby is a metallurgical engineer (rolls his eyes when he comes into the room and P&P is on ''again''). The few times that my 4-1/2 year old twin girls have watched portions of P&P with me they have stopped talking, and sat down to watch...future Austenites, to be sure! I was a very big fan of P&P1, and still think that Garvie has the edge over Ehle as Elizabeth. I have found that the difference for me is Davies; his interpretation, interpolation and fabrication are so superior, that I sometimes forget that Jane did not write the actual words of many scenes. I love Firth as Darcy, but find that I love the humor and companionship of this group even more!"}, {"response": 168, "author": "jane", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (18:24)", "body": "Mari, How fun twin girls must be! I have a 2 and a half year old girl, but I can't imagine 2 at the same time at this age, but 4-1/2 year old P&P watchers: what could be sweeter?"}, {"response": 169, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (18:24)", "body": "Thanks for telling us about you, Mari. What do you think Garvie does better, or why is she just a better Lizzy, in your view? I am sure we'll be talking about this a lot after the VirtView."}, {"response": 170, "author": "jane", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (18:34)", "body": "Amy, again we were reading the same thread at the same time! I look forward to participating in the tail end of the VirtView. Several people seem to prefer Garvie, and it will be fun to hear the various, as usual strong opinions on the subject."}, {"response": 171, "author": "jane", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (18:34)", "body": ""}, {"response": 172, "author": "donr", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (22:12)", "body": "Bernie, I teach at Louisiana Tech in, of course, Louisiana. My time is evenly divided between research and lecture. Nevertheless, I am very much smitten by P&P. It seems that each time I read it or view P&P2 I find some new morsel to savor."}, {"response": 173, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (11:27)", "body": "Finally I've found the perfect website for me. I first watched P&P2 on A&E's replay in late January/early February. My addiction since then has become the joke of my sometimes intolerant family. (you're watching it again?) After watching it the first time, I became P&P obsessed and read the novel more than a dozen times continuously, until my beleagured husband bought the film set for me. Life's been so difficult---I graduated from college and did my student teaching all while under the Austen spell! I have 4 children (girls 16 and 14, boys 11 and mr. surprise--19months). No one understands my addiction for the best novel I have ever read and the perfect adaptation of it."}, {"response": 174, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (14:24)", "body": "Welcome, Margaret. What about your daughters? Do they get it at all? (re Mr Surprise --- ohhhhh...)"}, {"response": 175, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (16:30)", "body": "Katie (16) is too impatient to watch anything that is 6 tapes long. Diana (14) did enjoy it but she thinks I've gone over the edge. Anyway, one can't gush too much about Darcy with one's 14 year old daughter, can one---even though she noted that \"Darcy must be interested in Lizzie since he's standing in front of that window with his robe open--guess he's hoping she'll look up!\" Scott, aka mr. surprise, was the shock of my life. I adore him now, but cried the entire pregnancy---just not what I needed at age 38. Plus the little imp weighed more than 10.5 lbs. A long boring saga, but a perfect, beautiful baby. Thanks for the welcome!"}, {"response": 176, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (16:35)", "body": "Yes G'day Margaret, it's wonderful to welcome another addict. Care to join for another fix? ;)"}, {"response": 177, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (21:17)", "body": "I have a friend who gave birth to twins, both of whom were over eight pounds! Now that's a lot of kid."}, {"response": 178, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (22:07)", "body": "Good day to you, Ian. I don't understand the rest of your message--how does one join? I thought I had. Ann, I pity your friend. Sixteen plus pounds of baby is way too much. Ten and a half almost killed me (not literally)."}, {"response": 179, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (04:13)", "body": "A-ha Margaret I was only \"pulling your leg\"! You know how much us Aussies tend to joke about. But welcome you are to our group. Because you are here you're indulging your JA and P&P2 addiction. Or do you just enjoy the chatting? ;)"}, {"response": 180, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (16:25)", "body": "Thanks again for the welcome, Ian. I am a chatterer, but I am here to feed my Jane Austen addiction. I've been cruising the threads---just hadn't jumped in yet. I will soon though--I was terribly sorry that I missed the ball (I love a ball!)."}, {"response": 181, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (19:36)", "body": ""}, {"response": 182, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (14:58)", "body": "''How fun twin girls must be! I have a 2 and a half year old girl, but I can't imagine 2 at the same time at this age...'' - Jane Jane, I am shocked and grieved; I reread my message (posted in haste before I flew off to finish my Christmas shopping), and saw that I had neglected to put MY OWN just-2-year-old girl into my bio! My ''pudgy-pie'' was born two weeks before my 39th BD, but THAT pregnancy was a piece of cake compared to the twins, so no complaints here! ''What do you think Garvie does better, or why is she just a better Lizzy, in your view? I am sure we'll be talking about this a lot after the VirtView.'' - Amy Amy, I was reserving my comments for the VirtView. I have already noted a few others who liked Garvie, so I'm interested in the full discussion when we all weigh in with our viewpoints together."}, {"response": 183, "author": "RikkiJ", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (12:32)", "body": "I am soon to be 8 and twenty, I am married, and have 3 step-children (2 are 9-year old identical twin girls). I am an Administrative Assistant for a Head Hunting firm in Laguna Beach, CA -- where I grew up and now live. I have an unrelated BFA degree in Theatrical Stage Management from USC. My Husband is French, a Pastry Chef, and... you guessed it, his name is Pierre. His son, Regis, lives with us in Laguna, and the twins, Valerie and Colette live with their mother in San Diego, but visit on weekends. I first discovered P&P1 when it ran on Masterpiece Theatre, it played the year before I started High School. Here in Laguna we get 3 PBS Stations, so naturally, I watched each episode 6 times. I went to the library and read the book, twice. Then I watched it again when they re-ran it later in the season. In 9th grade, it was required reading, so I read it again. Over the years, I read it about 3 more times, and loved it more each time. Then came P&P2. I watched each episode on A&E twice, and taped it to watch again and again. I got my mother hooked, and she is always borrowing my tape. Eventhough we had it on tape, when A&E re-ran it I again watched each episode twice. In the meantime, there was Persuasion, which I dragged my 87-year old grandmother to. (She doesn't get the accent.) I talked about it so much that my parents drove all the way to Santa Monica to see it because it was no longer showing in Orange County. And, Sense & Sensibility, which my whole family adored. I broke down and purchased both Persuasion and S&S on tape, but never got P&P2 (a wee dear for my budget). But I did get it for my mother for Christmas and her birthday (in January). My husband only saw S&S, and every time I watch P&P2, he makes some snide comment. But I don't care! I have been enraptured with JA's works for 17 years, and am content. Sorry for the long post, but I thought I should get it all out of my system. Rikki"}, {"response": 184, "author": "RikkiJ", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (12:35)", "body": "By the way, the e-mail address linked to my name is my bosses work address. My work address is: caorange@aol.com"}, {"response": 185, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (16:20)", "body": "Welcome Rickki."}, {"response": 186, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (19:37)", "body": "Rikki, you sound like a true addict and are most welcome here!"}, {"response": 187, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (20:01)", "body": "Great intro Rikki! Glad you made the landing here."}, {"response": 188, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (22:19)", "body": "Hi Rikki! Nice to meet you. Do not despair of your husband.It has taken mine a year to sit down with me and watch all of it.He still cannot take more than 1 hour at a time, but he does admit to liking the story now."}, {"response": 189, "author": "LIZZY", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (13:28)", "body": "Hello!!! I'm an 18 year old freshman at George Mason University in Virginia. Lets see of course My hobbies are reading Jane Austen Books and watching the movies. I'm a helpless addict to P&P and Colin Firth!!! Other hobbies are skiing and snowboarding."}, {"response": 190, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (17:01)", "body": "Welcome Rikki, know what you mean, hubby at that stage too. Welcome to you too Lizzy, any similarities with our heroine outside the name? Skiing and snowboarding a modern version version of scampering around? ;-)"}, {"response": 191, "author": "Lin", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (13:14)", "body": "Hi all! I'm 16 and living in Canada. I've been reading the posts on the old BB and have just started posting. I'm addicted to P&P and can't stop!"}, {"response": 192, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (14:06)", "body": "Hi. Lin and Welcome. I am Canadian myself although I live in Tennessee now. Enjoy the company of your fellow addicts. You are not alone!"}, {"response": 193, "author": "sysop", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (15:37)", "body": "Katy, I did not know you were a Canadian. Welcome Lin. How many times have you watched it?"}, {"response": 194, "author": "Lin", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (15:57)", "body": "Seen it 3 times and counting and read the novel too many times to count!"}, {"response": 195, "author": "mrcollins10", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (11:19)", "body": "I'm now just 55, nearing retirement and dearly love both the fiction and letters of Ms Austen. A lot of spare time spent on JA and the Regency in general. Love talking with anyone interested in the same. Just recently I had the pleasure of listening to Karlyn Bond's new CD of pianoforte works; some from JA's own collection of sheet music, others from the Regency period; Mozart, Hayden and so forth. Very nice. Recommend it to all. I live in LA; will move to Santa Maria CA soon. Married; no kids. This conference is a treasure!"}, {"response": 196, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (13:46)", "body": "Thanks for telling us about yourself, Carl. How about your favorite heroine. See heroine's thread. Where is Santa Maria?"}, {"response": 197, "author": "mrcollins10", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (14:42)", "body": "Thanx for the welcome, Amy. Santa Maria is about 180 miles up north from Los Angeles proper. Fav heroine? Anne Elliot. Can't be two opinions on that. Happy New Year to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Emma's Coming on A&E!"}, {"response": 198, "author": "Gabriella", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (14:50)", "body": "First of all: Hallo to you all!! Was very hnappy when I found this site!! so.. Thought I'd throw in my short bio.. Read P&P for the first time when I was 10, saw the 1985 adaption when on holiday in England and well, I was hooked!! Have seen that adaption and read almost all of Jane's works _many_ times since.. But when thelatest P&P came, with Colin.,. what can I say... It's the best in some way.. certainly Colin is THE sweetie. So, I got the video of couse and can't stop watching it. Looking forward to Fever Pitch too, as I just adore the book!! Recommend it for you all, and if you know a man that's a football fanatic I bet that you'll understand him much better after reading it :) About Austen's works.. Maybe after all Emma and Persuation as books are more of my favs.. but I've read P&P more times... Well, about me... I'm 19, lives in Lund, originally from Gothenburg. (In Sweden) A student of Geology for the moment but probably changing to Chinese this autumn.. What else.. Just got access to a computer during the hols (when I'm home) BUT maybe maybe that'll change soon... I really really hope so :) Happy New Year to you all btw!!! Just about 2hr left of 1996 here in Sweden :)"}, {"response": 199, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (15:10)", "body": "Welcome Gabriella and Carl. My husband is a football fantic and Nostromo is on PBS Sunday January 5th,Carl hope you can see it. I can't wait to see EMMA."}, {"response": 200, "author": "Gabriella", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (15:19)", "body": "Just thought about smthg... For you Americans, how much do you know about \"european football\" e.g soccer? Fever Pitch IS about Arsenal a lot.. but well, I don't think it really matters, obsession as obsession.. Anyone over there that has read Fever Pitch? Comments? But still, I hightly recommend it AND Nick Hornby's other book High Fidelity might be more universal btw :)"}, {"response": 201, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (15:25)", "body": "Gabriella, my three kids ages 13,9, and 6 all play soccor. If you saw Americans now you would think you where in \"Sweden\". We love it,wish I played as a kid. \"Classic American Soccor Mom\" Donna."}, {"response": 202, "author": "Gabriella", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (15:40)", "body": "Donna, This is great news! Then you'll love the book :) But well, we over here are starting with the American Football after all... and wasn't the World Championships in the US after all in 1994? But otherwise soccer IS of course the most common thing here in Sweden and Gothenburgs nice little team \ufffdrgryte Idrotts S\ufffdllskap was for a long time the only team for me :) Thanks for the info btw!"}, {"response": 203, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (16:58)", "body": "Glad to have you with us, Gabriella. Switching to Chinese? Tell us more. Where would you study?"}, {"response": 204, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (17:06)", "body": "Donna, then you're the \"soccer mom\" that decided the presidential election! I heard so much about you during the campaign, how does it feel to be the most sought after person in America?"}, {"response": 205, "author": "geekman", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (07:45)", "body": "G'day All, Just back from Sydney and feeling somewhat frazzled by the long New Year's Eve day and the lack of sleep last night. The fireworks over Sydney Harbour were spectacular, but only an estimated 500,000 people were actually in the CBD and around the harbour. But I can understand that because Sydney's geography lends itself to gain very good vantage spots from many of the suburbs too, viz. very hilly terrain. Anyway Happy New Year to All, and now I'm off to bed in the arly hours of the 2nd January! Cheerio."}, {"response": 206, "author": "Gabriella", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (09:24)", "body": "Thanx for the welcome, Just watching the old 80's movie Ivanhoe on the telly.. an old tradition here in Sweden :) And Anthony Andrews isn't so bad, either, but really nothing to Colin of course :) Just had to thank you all for all the interesting new insights the different discussions have given me. Have to watch P&P2 again today. And btw, saw a bumch of countryfolks on the list! Hej allihop!! Kul att fler \ufffdn jag \ufffdr tokiga i P&P2 Jag missade f\ufffdrresten sista delen av Moll Flanders, n\ufffdn som vet om den finns att hyra? Amy, about the Chinese, I'll probably study it at first in Lund, IF I manage to get accapted at the course, LOTS of applicants so it's hard... Anyway, I really hope that in the future I may go to Britain and study, and of couse China and Mongolia :) but that's another story :) LOve Britain and want to move there. Happy New Year all!!!!"}, {"response": 207, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "Happy New Year Ian and Gabriella!"}, {"response": 208, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (13:49)", "body": "Ian and Gabriella, Carl and everyone else WELCOME!!!! Oh new people new people. We also have crushes on Colin Firth if you can all deal with that. Most of the women just swoon over them. happy new year everyone"}, {"response": 209, "author": "Tay", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "Hey, guys, it's me again, if you remember me! ;) I hope to be around more now that Donna has encouraged me. Gosh, there's so so much to catch up on! Well, I must leave now, so I can indulge myself in the other messages!"}, {"response": 210, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (15:20)", "body": "Hey Tay -- welcome back! New people, \"old\" people, what a wonderful group this is."}, {"response": 211, "author": "MikeC", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (15:49)", "body": "Hey! My name is Mike and my sister is LisaC. If you read her post you will find out that she is quite the P&P2 fan. It was she who introduced me to the trials of Lizzie. I enjoyed the series but not to her same extent. We share different opinions on such things as Lizzie's change of heart towards Darcy. I believe that Lizzie is a money hungry feminist who only eased up to Darcy when she saw how rich he was."}, {"response": 212, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (15:54)", "body": "Have you read the book, Mike??"}, {"response": 213, "author": "Tay", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (16:29)", "body": "I believe Walter Scott shared Mike's perspective. I can only say it is exactly what a male would think! I second Ann's request: Mike, read the book !"}, {"response": 214, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (16:56)", "body": "Mike, do I detect just the teensiest shade of a teasing troll?"}, {"response": 215, "author": "MikeC", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (17:26)", "body": "I have not read the book, my deeries, but from what I understand the book is practically the same as the series. Moreover, I did read a few passages from the to validate my post. If you believe that I need to read the book before making an opinion on a fact that occurs in the series and the book, then please tell me why!"}, {"response": 216, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (18:27)", "body": "my deeries shades of a certain deplorable M !"}, {"response": 217, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (19:11)", "body": "You know Mike there are more \"subtle\" ways to get your point across without ruffleing so many feathers.You should be reading more poetry then prose and consider driving a \"big\" \"truck\" for a living. \"Why should you read the book\",because you have know idea what was \"expected\" of respectable men and women in the 18th century.You spelled \"dearie\" wrong \"deerest\". Donna"}, {"response": 218, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (20:41)", "body": "Ouch!"}, {"response": 219, "author": "MikeC", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (00:50)", "body": "Dearest Donna, I apologize for misspelling \"dearie\", it was simply a typo, as I'm sure your \"Know idea\" was also a typo, do you KNOW what I mean! As for your big truck comment, I would have you KNOW that I am a computer engineering student who doesn't back down from a good argument. I hardly ever lose, after all my big truck and I make one hell of a one-two punch! Look both ways before crossing the street Donna, because if you are not careful it won't be a MACK truck that hits you but a MIKE truck instead Look forward to arguing with you in the future."}, {"response": 220, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (00:53)", "body": "Lin: I am from Toronto. Where are you from?"}, {"response": 221, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (08:40)", "body": "I was talking about being polite. I can see that it is not in your \"violent\" nature."}, {"response": 222, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (09:34)", "body": "I am not ashamed to admit to losing arguments, all the time. I think I learn more that way........"}, {"response": 223, "author": "MikeC", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (11:28)", "body": "Dearest Donna, let us be friends. Come now, surely you do not believe that I would harm you in any way. However, when you watched the series the thought of Lizzie being materialistic must have crossed your mind when she said: 'and of this place,I might have been mistress!'"}, {"response": 224, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (12:52)", "body": "Mike I would like to be friends, read the book and go to H.C.Churchyard's Jane Austen Info page http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janeifo.html I have worked very hard to understand Jane Austen and it has been very rewarding as I am not avid reader. At first, I thought, related to todays standards a materialilstic remark.If you read these pages/book you wil see it is not.It is much more complicated then that. That is just the reason why I could not wait to read her books. If you noticed, he was thrilled that she came to Pemberely and wanted her to love it as much as he does."}, {"response": 225, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (12:53)", "body": "Mike I would like to be friends, read the book and go to H.C.Churchyard's Jane Austen Info page http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janeifo.html I have worked very hard to understand Jane Austen and it has been very rewarding as I am not avid reader. At first, I thought, related to todays standards a materialilstic remark.If you read these pages/book you wil see it is not.It is much more complicated then that. That is just the reason why I could not wait to read her books. If you noticed, he was thrilled that she came to Pemberely and wanted her to love it as much as he does."}, {"response": 226, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (14:55)", "body": "\"Look both ways before crossing the street Donna, because if you are not careful it won't be a MACK truck that hits you but a MIKE truck instead\" Offended by these rude manners, this \"gentleman\" seems to think nothing of politeness nothing at all, the simple courtesy of inquiring into a site/topic before making judgement and therefore prejudice others. Pray Sirs Henry, Terry and Ian show the way to being an agreable man, so genteel and so easy and those people who fancy themselves very important and bold and opened their mouth to easily, quite mistake the matter! Utterly vexed"}, {"response": 227, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (19:34)", "body": "Mike, It is true that in Austen's time marriage was handle a bit like a biz proposal. Everyone including the Men were sensitive to making a good match in a practical sense. Love was a plus but not the reason many people married. Also women in Lizzies situation had very little options outside of marriage. The only two I can think of were being a governess and prostitution. Unlike our society in most cases pure survival depended on the match you made. Even though I've said the above I think if you read the book you would find Lizzie's is not as you have described her. For one thing she knows of Darcy's wealth the first time she meets him. She is reminded of it in nearly every scene yet it does not sway her dislike of him. She turns down his first proposal and gives him a good lashing while she does it. She is impressed with Pemberley but in it's simplistic elegance and what it says of Darcy's taste. It is only a short time before going to Pemberley that she learns how wrong she has been in her prejudice against Darcy. I would call Lizzie's many things but not a feminist. She will not marry without love but she fully accepts a lady's place in society. I hope you read the book I think you'll enjoy it. Lastly I think you'll find that although we disagree at times, we rarely have arguments. Mich"}, {"response": 228, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (08:59)", "body": "MikeC -- I have some discussion of this on the web-page at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/pptopics.html . Neither Jane Austen nor Elizabeth Bennet were really self-conscious ideological feminists (Jane Austen's family was not in a social position where they would be likely to be very sympathetic to the radical politics of the day), but on the other hand, Jane Austen did insist on a right to individual integrity and conscience which included women (follow the \"Feminism in Jane Austen link\", or look at Lizzy's remarks during the latter part of Mr. Collins propposal in Chapter 19 of Pride and Prejudice )."}, {"response": 229, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (18:25)", "body": "Hi Y'all, I am from Georgia, USA..a small town called Peachtree City, just 45 min south of Atlanta. I have two children - one son 25 years old and a daughter 15 years old. My son is an art student at Art Institute of Atlanta and my daughter is a freshman whose passion is English riding (Hunter Jumping) and yes, we have one horse. I found P&P while channel surfing one evening and could not wait until the following week for the next episode. I purchased the video and have about worn it out. I am thrilled to kno others out there have excellent good taste and look forward to getting to know many of you. I only found you a few days ago so have alot to learn. (Linda)"}, {"response": 230, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:22)", "body": "Hello, Linda. I think you will find that this is an amazingly diverse, very knowledgeable group of P&P fans. I know I have learned a lot about books, movies, internet sites, HTML, and many other topics from them. And best of all, we get to indulge in far-ranging discussions about out favorite tv/movie adaptation. Welcome."}, {"response": 231, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (09:40)", "body": "Re: 189 \"Lizzy\" posted at Amy's BB that she received the \"Making of P&P\" video when she bought it directly from A&E. I hope she will tell how long ago she ordered it. Lizzy where are you?"}, {"response": 232, "author": "Belinda", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (03:37)", "body": "I'm just dropping in to say hello after a long absence ... happy new year everyone! Also, I wanted to say hello to Gabriella - the geology student (I'm a geologist - don't find too many women in the field over here!). You want to study Chinese next - Cantonese or Mandarin? That should be interesting (and very difficult)!"}, {"response": 233, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (04:27)", "body": "Yee-haw! Tay and Bells and Mich are back!"}, {"response": 234, "author": "ragsan", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (08:34)", "body": "Hi! I am Ragnhild, female, 22 years old and hopelessly in love with Darcy (idiotic to find mr.right in a fictional character, and one who is about 200 years older than me at that...). I have lost count of how many times I've seen the bbc/a&a production, but I'm starting to know the whole thing by heart. More about me at http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~ragsan"}, {"response": 235, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (08:39)", "body": "MikeC, let me explain why the book makes so much diffrence, becouse there Lizzy's feelings are TOLD! you don't have to guess them out of JE's way of acting, you KNOW them, do you understand what I mean? Your theory just dosen't WORK in the book, so read it!"}, {"response": 236, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (08:50)", "body": "Ragnhild, so glad you made it in. Any trouble? You are with kindred spirits in your crush on Darcy."}, {"response": 237, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (09:41)", "body": "Hi Ragnhild. Have we met on Austen-L? Nice to see you here!"}, {"response": 238, "author": "Jan", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (12:47)", "body": "Hello from Alabama. I am Jan, I'm six and forty and am a law librarian by profession. The first time that A&E broadcast P&P2 I tuned in in the middle of Darcy's first proposal. Well, I though this was quite a show! At the beginning of the summer, a friend told me that A&E was going to rebroadcast the series, but I didn't watch the listings and as I was flipping channels in August, I encountered the middle of Darcy's first proposal AGAIN!! Well, I was very vexed indeed. I immediately began searching the IMDB for any information on the series. I found the old BB and read a message that A&E would rebroadcast P&P2 as a part of its classroom series starting in November. I'm quite shy about posting, but I can let no more time go by without expressing my gratitude. Of course I have my own set of tapes now and I read the book for the first time over Thanksgiving. I've followed you and your move to the Spring off and on since the November-December broadcast and you are quite a group-- a model, I think, of the positive things that can come from this amazing technology. Please allow me to say this, please allow me to thank you, for I DO know to whom I am indebted. Jan"}, {"response": 239, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (13:45)", "body": "Thanks for coming out Jan. We always like to know who else is out there. Don't be shy -- or be shy. Just as you choose. You are very welcome either way."}, {"response": 240, "author": "Paula", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "I've met most of you in the Drawing Room, and thanks to your help I've finally made it to the Spring. I've got a lot of reading to do. By means of introduction, I'm Paula and three and twenty and I live in Greencastle, PA. A town of very little consequence. I'm a high school English teacher, but have not had the opportunity to teach P&P yet. I'm waiting for the head of our department to order the books. I've also recently married a great guy in March, and have been chatting with everyone in the dra ing room for about two weeks. I love P&P (the book and the movie), and hope to meet all of you in the chat room. I'll try to read all of the postings very soon!!! I'm going to follow Cheryl's advice...."}, {"response": 241, "author": "Lin", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (18:13)", "body": "]Lin: I am from Toronto. Where are you from? On the other side of the country: Vancouver"}, {"response": 242, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (18:37)", "body": "Hi Paula...glad you made it in! ;)"}, {"response": 243, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (00:59)", "body": "Hey, hey, hey Paula! (ooh-showing my age here!) Glad to see you're signed up! Re following my advice...does that mean you're headed over to the drooling topic??? Have fun... :-)"}, {"response": 244, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (16:47)", "body": "Hi, I'm Sharon and P&P has been one of my 2 favorite books (The Witch of Blackbird Pond is the other) from my early teens. I have owned about 5 paperbacks in the last 20 years because they fall apart on me. I am trying to preserve the first copy I ever read, which my mom had from her Jr. High days. The tradition has now passed on, because since my 7 year old niece watched the A&E production, she likes to be read the book at bedtime. I too, am very pleased with P&P2, even with the parts added to the film. I had seen the first Masterpiece Theatre version years ago and thought it was so lame that I had trouble sitting through it. I remembered my anoyance so well, that I originally was not going to watch the second BBC production, so I didn't see it until the second time around. Now, I also dished out $100 for the video set."}, {"response": 245, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (17:07)", "body": "Welcome home, Sharon."}, {"response": 246, "author": "alix", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "Hi! I'm glad I finally found my way back. I'm a student at McEachern High School, and I am an advid Janeite, clarinet player, and amature composer. I am stoll addicted to P&P2 and am awaiting the showing of Emma on A&E. I'll talk to you later! :) Alicky (Laura)"}, {"response": 247, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "Alicky -- let me be one of the first to welcome you. You couldn't meet a nicer group of fellow Austen/P&P2 fans!"}, {"response": 248, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (20:33)", "body": "Welcome Alicky. You are back, you say? Were you a visitor on the old board?"}, {"response": 249, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (22:57)", "body": "I first read \"P & P\" about 8 years ago and fell immediately and irrevocably in love. I was amazed to find out that I was not the only one totally besotted with Colin Firth's protrayal of Darcy. I swear the man could act with eyes alone! It's nice to know I have company."}, {"response": 250, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "Welcome Susan. It is nice to find you are not alone, is it not?"}, {"response": 251, "author": "cassandraw", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (02:05)", "body": "Hello, I'm Cassandra W. from small town Ohio (brought to you by bright.net), born in Texas, came here by way of Arizona. I have both B.A. and M.A. from Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches, Texas. I've loved Austen since I first read her one summer in early high school. I think I made book reports on Pride and Prejudice in several different classes. The books are SO much better than the movies, but that's probably another conference or something (gosh this is complicated!). What else did you want to know? I'm a children's librarian, have a neat husband, and two mouthy teenage daughters, the younger of whom is hopelessly addicted to the you-know-what of 1995 (There must be some gene involved.). Nice to be here."}, {"response": 252, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (05:41)", "body": "Though I have seen you in chat, welcome officially, Cassandra, O namesake of our dear Jane's sister. Did you know we have other kid librarians here? Kim works in a school in Tennessee. Ann2 in Sweden -- Ann, I guess I assumed you are with a public library, is that not so? Or do you work in a school too?"}, {"response": 253, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (11:56)", "body": "Welcome Susan and Cassandra...I am fairly new here too...I've found all sorts of kindred spirits here....and yes, Susan, it's those \"fine eyes\" he has himself. You will find all sorts of interesting conversation and information to satisfy your \"addiction\"....have fun and welcome!"}, {"response": 254, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (13:22)", "body": "Cassie, don't worry, you will find many great admirers of the book haunting this BB. In fact, rumor has it that a frequent and much loved participant, the Mysterious H.C., hasn't even seen the miniseries, but we have reason to suspect that he has read the book. ."}, {"response": 255, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (21:12)", "body": "Hi, ya'll. I tried to introduce myself on Dec. 22 but didn't get through. I live in West Texas Have B.A. from Texas Tech U. Have son in early 40's who is an English professor in a Texas University. A daughter who teaches Kindergarten in Plano, Texas - suburb of Dallas. I am retired from medical field (Jack of All Trades). Since my children are as old as most of you I'm sure you would not expect me to own my age. This meeting place is one of the joys I have discovered since retiring. I am a widow and live with two wonderful dogs and a cat who allows us to live here. I enjoy all of you so much."}, {"response": 256, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (21:14)", "body": "Jane, for a long time I didn't see it (no cable or VCR), but now I have watched it twice..."}, {"response": 257, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (21:22)", "body": "Wow, almost 12 hours of P&P2."}, {"response": 258, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (21:44)", "body": "Hi again, Claudia. You can be my virtual mom. I need one; get tired of being the mom."}, {"response": 259, "author": "Lynbl", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (23:25)", "body": "I've been lurking around the edge of this site for a few months and have finally decided to jump in! I live in Brisbane, Australia am a mother of 3 adult children and 3 brilliant grandchildren. I first read P&P when I was about 16 (by the light of gaslight, owing to my great age, you see!). I saw P&P0 and wondered what the heck I was watching, but finally found heaven when P&P2 arrived. I couldn't believe they were actually saying words from the book!! Not only that, but everyone looked exactly as I pictured them. BLISS.. My children gave me the double tape for Mother's day and I have watched it so many times it is showing alarming lines right in the middle of much loved scenes (you know the ones). I also bought the \"Making of\" from the ABC shop here and know that by heart.I have watched my tapes so many times that my favourite thing at the moment is to focus on a different character each viewing and watch their actions. Also to slow-motion through crown scenes (the village dance, the ball, the double wedding AND THE KISS). I play it while I vacuum and know just exactly what scene is playing by what is being said.....The true addict - I don't even have to WATCH anymore ... Do I qualify?"}, {"response": 260, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (23:58)", "body": "Hi Lyn, you most certainly do qualify, Welcome! It's nice to have another Australian come out of the woodwork."}, {"response": 261, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (06:00)", "body": "Welcome, Lyn. You can get the Making of video in Oz? Can grandmothers still drool? Please say yes."}, {"response": 262, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (08:59)", "body": "HeellOOO, Lyn! Hey guys, she actually has the TAPE!!!!!"}, {"response": 263, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (12:54)", "body": "Yes, yes; please tell us Lyn;can we order by mail from this store; name adress, specifics, please!"}, {"response": 264, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "Lyn may have the Making of P&P2 tape, but being in Oz it is in the PAL format and therefore cannot be used on American VCR's. Curses, foiled again! :-("}, {"response": 265, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (15:42)", "body": "Lyn, did you mean the \"Making Of P&P\" tape or the book? The ABC shop in Newcastle only had the book; if the tape is available in Aus I'll bully them into ordering it for me..."}, {"response": 266, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:07)", "body": "Lyn..could it be that we have lines in our tapes at the same places....I know exactly what you mean....I was so relieved to find others who felt the same way...I think it very interesting that having read P&P so many years earlier that the characters were exactly what you had imagined for so long...that rarely happens...usually a production changes it for you...I hate when that happens...to find your imagination come alive on the screen must be terrific!"}, {"response": 267, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:37)", "body": "Hello- I'm finally delurking here after a couple of weeks. I must say I was pleasantly surprised to find this board, and more pleasantly surprised at how nice everyone here seems! My interest in P&P began when I saw the miniseries, and culminated during hurricane Fran last Sept., when I was without electricity for 8 days and spent my time reading and re-reading P&P by candlelight. Now, one slightly stronger glasses prescription later, I have treated myself to the videos of P&P and S&S, and am through most of he novels. I do have a Lit. background (MA in Medieval Lit), but never spent much time on 19th century British. It's great! As for personal info, I live in Raleigh, NC with my brand new husband and ill-tempered dog, and have abandoned academia for software marketing--go figure. Well, I imagine I'll be drooling/posting here often...........so 'bye for now."}, {"response": 268, "author": "Lynbl", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:53)", "body": "Guys, calm down.....Sorry, it's the way I put things. I had so much to say and just kept going without making sense. It was the Making of BOOK, not tape I have. I have sent an e-mail to the BBC asking if they produced a tape for sale to the general public, and if not, why not as there sure is a market for it. Fingers crossed. Sorry about the confusion. And yes Amy, grandmothers still drool - haven't you heard, they are probably the BIGGEST droolers....."}, {"response": 269, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (17:08)", "body": "OOHHH! LYN! You could have started a riot here! LOL! I, too have emails in to 1) BBC; 2) A&E; and 3)ABC (Australia). A few others have had emails out for a while, and no response."}, {"response": 270, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "Amy, what a happy thought - to be your virtual mom - I can't think of an honor I'd rather have. My daughter is as much an Austen fan as I so I'll tell her she has a virtual sister. The Eng. Prof son keeps us informed on all sorts of good tidbits from Regency and Victorian lit. and lifestyles. Could you use a brother too?"}, {"response": 271, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (18:49)", "body": "]The Eng. Prof son keeps us informed on all sorts of good tidbits from Regency and Victorian lit. and lifestyles. Could you use a brother too? A wonderful addition to the family! Can we all adopt him?"}, {"response": 272, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (19:29)", "body": "Yes, please. He shall be our brother."}, {"response": 273, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (22:02)", "body": "Has anyone tried hitting up the BBC and A&E about the Making of video using snail mail ?"}, {"response": 274, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (22:22)", "body": "How about getting A&E to sponsor this conference and the conference website?"}, {"response": 275, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (23:06)", "body": "} Has anyone tried hitting up the BBC and A&E about the Making of video using snail mail? And by voice phone and by any other method that could be thought of. They remain inscrutable and implacable."}, {"response": 276, "author": "geekman", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (05:22)", "body": "G'day Lyn and G'day Claudia. It's lovely to have some Grandmas here! Now we are a real family, but where's Pop ? By the way , Lyn have you heard about our little Aussie Austenite get together? Now you've come out of the woodwork Hilary, Anna and I may plead for you to come too. The weekend of 22/23 February we are meeting in Canberra for a Picnic and then a meal in the evening. Final plans have not yet been agreed upon, but hopefully you will be able to meet most of us, including Lilian!"}, {"response": 277, "author": "bernie", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (07:16)", "body": "Ann, I've telephoned, EP\u007f:e"}, {"response": 278, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (14:22)", "body": "Anna, the English Prof is fun. He would love you. The latest tidbit was on Poor Laws of the two periods and a receipe for Pork Pie. Yuk - the fat gram police would come after us if we ate that."}, {"response": 279, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "I love meat pies, though."}, {"response": 280, "author": "OrrRN", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (23:40)", "body": "Hello everyone....I'm so surprised that I haven't found this place sooner. I, as many of you, am hopelessly in love with the BBC's version of P&P. I did not see the first airing of the miniseries last January in the U.S. and luckily saw it in August when A&E showed it again. I have been in love with it ever since. Yet, I'm not so sure what I am in love with...Is is Colin Firth's portrayal of the proud Mr. Darcy? Is it Jennifer Ehle's performance of Eliz abeth Bennet? Is it the music? I don't know, but I just love it. Thank you for creating a site for us fanatics. Unfortunately, AOL will not permit me and others to go into the Pemberly chat room, but this is great enough. Thanks again."}, {"response": 281, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "You not the only AOL discontent these days, I hear. Welcome, glad you found this place."}, {"response": 282, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (00:49)", "body": "Welcome, Cris. Are you a nurse?"}, {"response": 283, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (01:46)", "body": "Chris: I'm not so sure what I am in love with...Is it Hi Chris - it is all of those - and more. If any one element of the production were removed or altered, it would not be the same. It is such a triumph of ensemble performance (technical as well as dramatic) as is seldom achieved."}, {"response": 284, "author": "bernie", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (07:24)", "body": "Ann, I have wriiten, faxed E-mailed and telephoned the BBC numerous times with regards to \"The Making of P&P2\" video. Thus far I have had no joy. No responses to mail enquiries and no positive noises from telephone conversations. I've even asked about the special teacher's package, which costs over a 100 pounds, to no avail. At least I'm lucky in the sense that I have seen the video. \u007f:help q"}, {"response": 285, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (07:29)", "body": "Finally got myself back in here after several attempts :( Ann, I have written, faxed, E\ufffdmailed and telephoned the BBC on numerous occasions with respects to \"The Making of P&P2\" video. Thus far, I have had absolutely no joy \ufffd no response to mail enquiries and telephone queries have resulted in nothing positive either. I have even asked about the special teacher's package, which costs upwards of \ufffd100, to no avail :-( At least, I'm lucky in the sense that I have seen the video."}, {"response": 286, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (09:36)", "body": "Cris..welcome...Prodigy won't let us get into the chat room either! It is so maddening...I am still trying to bully them however. I signed on with Compuserve for my free 5 hours just to see what I was missing...but hang in there....they are still updating all these systems and trying to keep up with not only the demand, but to keep their \"already faithful\" happy.... If you loved the series..you will love all the various topics and discussions here at the conference!"}, {"response": 287, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (10:25)", "body": "In here, love in P&P might very well transform in love of P&P2BB, and the feeling will extend to gargantuesque proportion. Happy thoughts and lucky you in experiencing this ;)"}, {"response": 288, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (15:13)", "body": "Just an idea for Linda & Cris - Try downloading Microsoft Explorer from the MS website and use it to get into the Pemberley Drwrm. Start up the Explorer after you have logged on to AOL or Prodigy. I have done this when I was on AOL because the Explorer seemed to download files faster. And in addition, when AOL cut me off, all my screens would still be up for me to look at on the Explorer."}, {"response": 289, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (15:27)", "body": "Can do the same with Netscape as well (and I found it much faster)"}, {"response": 290, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (16:38)", "body": "Sharon....bless you girl! I will try it..Microsoft Explorer is what I use with Compuserve. I use Netscape with the new Prodigy Internet...it doesn't work for me.... Johanne...Netscape works for you? I wonder why it doesn't on Prodigy Internet????????"}, {"response": 291, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (18:43)", "body": "Actually it works wonder : am with an independant provider."}, {"response": 292, "author": "ednaw", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (03:42)", "body": "I am glad to descover this location, being the only P&P2 addict some what lonely. I have enjoiyed reading all the comments. ednaw"}, {"response": 293, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (08:48)", "body": "Hi Ednaw, and welcome. I saw you try to come into chat yesterday. Try again sometime. What was the trouble?"}, {"response": 294, "author": "Melanie", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:43)", "body": ""}, {"response": 295, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Dec 29, 2000 (10:33)", "body": "Welcome ednaw. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 100, "subject": "Think you're computer-illiterate?", "response_count": 126, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (11:07)", "body": "Compaq is considering changing the command :\"Press Any Key\" to \"Press Return Key\" because of the flood of calls asking where the \"Any\" key is. AST technical support had a caller caomplaining that her mouse was hard to control with the dust cover on. The cover turned out to be the plastic bag the mouse was packaged in. Another Compaq technician received a call from a man complaining that the system wouldn't read word processing files from his old diskettes. After trouble-shooting for magnets and heat failed to diagose the problem, it was found that the customer labeled the diskettes then rolled them into the typewritter to type the labels. This pharse was suppose to be under the topic header ,I'll add it here. Just a few cornball jokes thanks to a friend of a friend, Professor M.D.Elias Penn State University"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (11:12)", "body": "I do have about 10 more but as I am typing them. I know there is an easier way to do this it will take a while as I am one of these computer-illiterate,later Donna"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (11:16)", "body": "Here's a few more (Some of which have now achieved the status of urban legend): Another Dell customer called to say he couldn't get his computer to fax anything. After 40 minutes of trouble-shooting, the technician discovered the man was trying to fax a piece of paper by holding it in front of the monitor screen and hitting the \"send\" key. Another Dell customer needed help setting up a new program, so a Dell tech suggested he go to the local Egghead. \"Yeah, I got me a couple of friends, \"the customer replied. When told Egghead was a software store, the man said, \"Oh, I thought you meant for me to find a couple of geeks.\" Yet another Dell customer called to complain that his keyboard no longer worked. He had cleaned it by filling up his tub with soap and water and soaking the keyboard for a day, then removing all the keys and washing them individually. Another customer called Compaq tech support to say her brand-new computer wouldn't work. She said she unpacked the unit, plugged it in, and sat there for 20 minutes waiting for something to happen. When asked what happened when she pressed the power switch, she asked \"What power switch?\" True story from a Novell NetWire SysOp: Caller: \"Hello, is this Tech Support?\" Tech: \"Yes, it is. How may I help you?\" Caller: \"The cup holder on my PC is broken and I am within my warranty period. How do I go about getting that fixed?\" Tech: \"I'm sorry, but did you say a cup holder?\" Caller: \"Yes, it's attached to the front of my computer.\" Tech: \"Please excuse me if I seem a bit stumped, It's because I am. Did you receive this as part of a promotional, at a trade show? How did you get this cup holder? Does it have any trademark on it?\" Caller: \"It came with my computer, I don't know anything about a promotional. It just has '4X' on it.\" At this point the Tech Rep had to mute the caller, because he couldn't stand it. The caller had been using the load drawer of the CD-ROM drive as a cup holder, and snapped it off the drive!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (11:38)", "body": "Another AST customer was asked to send a copy of her defective diskettes . A few days later a letter arrived from the customer along with Xeroxed copies of the floppies. A Dell technician advised his customer to put his troubled floppy back in the drive and close the door. The customer asked the tech to hold on, and was heard putting the phone down, getting up and crosing the room to close the door to his room. A Dell technician received a call from a customer who was enraged because his computer had told him he was \"bad and an invalid\". The computer's \"bad comman\" and invalid\" response shouldn't be taken personally. An exasperated caller to Dell Computer Tech Support couldn't get her new Dell Computer to turn on. After ensuring the computer was plugged in,the computer technician asked her what happened when she pushed the power button. Her response, \"I pushed and pushed on this foot pedal and nothing happens.\"The \" foot pedal\" turned out to be the computer's mouse. That is all of them. Kaff posted the rest of them. Thanks Kaff."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (12:11)", "body": "Just add one from personal experience: I used to be a tech support person for WordPerfect. I got a call from a woman who couldn't figure out why her paper kept getting caught in the printer. It turned out she was trying to put post-it notes through the printer!!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (13:20)", "body": "Well, I am feeling much better about my limited computer skills! At least I can can bold and itialics!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Adi", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (15:16)", "body": "Kaffeine, the story about the cd-rom is so hilarious! whenever I think about it I start to laugh again... are you sure this is a true story?, I wonder how dumb people can be?..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (17:19)", "body": "If you want to learn italics or bolds or several of the other HTML tags we use around here, check out my tutorial: http://www.spring.com/~anneh/tagsaaaa.html I tried to keep it simple."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (17:22)", "body": "Great"}, {"response": 10, "author": "drymartini", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (20:24)", "body": "A student called me, as she was working her way through her manual. She couldn't find the backsplash on her computer. Another asked whether the antistat spray she used on her monitor would kill viruses. Still another thought if she left the dustcover on moset of the time it would help keep viruses out. One was worried about the Leonardo theme that comes with the Win95 Plus! Pak. He thought the graphics were related to the Michelangelo virus he had heard about. I tried to tell him that was Leonardo, you know, Mona Lisa, Last Supper, inventions-- but he was not comforted. \"I didn't know there was a Leonardo virus,\" he said."}, {"response": 11, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (21:45)", "body": "Here are some humorous lines collected from \".sig\" files. (These are the \"signature\" files that people often include at the end of their e-mail messages; they usually include contact information and often a quotation that the writer considers clever or profound.) Some of these I do not understand well enough to \"get\" but others are hysterically funny even to me. ;-) SUBJECT: Programmer's .sig files MESSAGE from =larry.reed@3do.com 10-JUL-96 0:48 From: \"Larry Reed\" [larry.reed@3do.com] Date: 9 Jul 1996 10:14:22 U Mail*Link( SMTP Programmer's .sig files More interesting thoughts applicable to introducing technology into schools. This is a collection of items from email signature files. -- Larry * Daddy, why doesn't this magnet pick up this floppy disk? * Pentiums melt in your PC, not in your hand. * Error, no keyboard - press F1 to continue. * Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity. * Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I. * Double your drive space - delete Windows! * Who is General Failure and why is he reading my disk? * Multitasking: Screwing up several things at once... * Stack Error: Lost on a cluttered desk... * Stack Overflow: Too many pancakes... * Life would be much easier if I had the source code. * ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS. * How do I set my laser printer on stun? * 'Calm down -- it's only ones and zeros.' * Computer analyst to programmer: \"You start coding. I'll go find out what they want.\" * I just found the last bug. * The programmer's national anthem is 'AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH'. -Weinberg, p.152 * If debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in. -Dykstra * \"#define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb)) - Shakespeare.\" * \"Real programmers use: COPY CON PROGRAM.EXE\" * To iterate is human; to recurse, divine. * If at first you don't succeed, call it version 1.0 * God is REAL, unless explicitly declared INTEGER. * Asking if computers can think is like asking if submarines can swim. * From C:\\*.* to shining C:\\*.* * Programming is an art form that fights back. * \"Daddy, what does FORMATTING DRIVE C mean?\" * All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound? * To define recursion, we must first define recursion. * Good programming is 99% sweat and 1% coffee. * C program run. C program crash. C programmer quit."}, {"response": 12, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (22:03)", "body": "*** BASIC COMPUTER VIRUSES*** FEDERAL BUREAUCRAT VIRUS: Divides your hard disk into hundreds of little units, each of which do practically nothing, but all of which claim to be the most important part of the computer. GALLUP VIRUS: Sixty percent of the PCs infected will lose 38 percent of their data 14 percent of the time (plus or minus a 3.5 margin of error). PAUL REVERE VIRUS: This revolutionary virus doesn't horse around. It warns you of impending hard disk attack -- once if by LAN, twice if by C:. POLITICALLY CORRECT VIRUS: Never calls itself a \"virus,\" but instead refers to itself as an \"electronic microorganism.\" AT&T VIRUS: Every three minutes it tells you what great service you're getting. MCI VIRUS: Every three minutes it reminds you that you're paying too much for the AT&T virus. GOVERNMENT ECONOMIST VIRUS: Nothing works, but all your diagnostic software says everything is fine. CONGRESSIONAL VIRUS: Computer locks up, screen splits vertically with a message appearing on each half blaming the other side for the problem. STAR TREK VIRUS: Invades your system in places where no virus has gone before. QUANTUM LEAP VIRUS: One day your PC is a laptop, the next day it is a Macintosh, then it's a Nintendo. Thanks to Mary Chaitt, University of California, Los Angeles ."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (22:04)", "body": "You guys are priceless! Thankyou,thankyou, thankyou. I feel so much better now. p.s. Ann, the link is asclear as a crystal ball....."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (22:45)", "body": "I loved all your entries. Somewhere I have an even longer list of the viruses, but they're over a year old and can't find them right now. Ann, thanks for your HTML page - I've added it to my bookmarks and will study it at leisure when I ave more time."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (11:12)", "body": "Re112:8 Why Ann, I thank you so much! Though I have been testing some of these tricks before, the easy way of big and small and blink and colour was great to learn! Excellently presented too.I advice everybody who is not familiar with this html writing to visit Anns school. (This is a test as well.)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (11:15)", "body": "Re112:8 Why Ann, I thank you so much! Though I have been testing some of these tricks before, the easy way of big and small and blink and colour was great to learn! Excellently presented too.I advice everybody who is not familiar with this html writing to visit Anns school. (This is a test as well.)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (11:20)", "body": "Sorry lost post and was adviced(?)to reload but that produced a Dacapo of my partly failure to html. No colour appeared. Bear with me for one more try, will you? Zalakadola,mechicabola Colour appear!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (11:21)", "body": "Nope, I'll have to return to school for further lessons..."}, {"response": 19, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (15:37)", "body": "Ann2, you have restored my faith -- it is all magic, is it not? (Let us know as soon as you remember the correct incantation!)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (20:25)", "body": "Ann2, I think your problem is British spelling: [FONT SIZE=\"+1\" COLOR=\"#ff00c0\"]COLOR[/FONT]"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (22:29)", "body": "Henry, are the quotation marks on the font size necessary? Do they work if you use them. I've never put them on."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (14:54)", "body": "If this will solve my problem I am so grateful HC. I can tell you that I had written color on my paper but thought it looked odd.And so altered it to that akward nonAusten spelling. I did not use big letters for font either.Do you think that matters? Correction! My husband(who is an English teacher)happened to come in and read over my shoulder and he explained that the word colour is differently spelled in UK and US.So it's really color that is nonAusten... I dare hardly try this time..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (15:05)", "body": "Oh Henry! I am indebted to you! The happiness which this reply produced was such as I have probably never felt before A sligth exaggeration but the feeling when the result comes out rigth is of a peculiar kind;)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (15:11)", "body": "Forgot to tell you Kathleen, some witchcraft *was* involved, as I kept my fingers crossed while I submitted the message! Will have to learn some other colors now..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (16:02)", "body": "Ann -- according to the rules of proper SGML, quotes are required whenever a character ofther than a-z, A-Z, 0-9, \".\" (period), or \"-\" (hyphen) is used in an attribute value. So [FONT SIZE=-1] doesn't require quotes, but [FONT SIZE=\"+1\"] does (though many browsers will display it properly even if quotes aren't used)..."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (18:03)", "body": "Ann - Here's a chart of the colors for you:"}, {"response": 27, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (18:20)", "body": "Kaffeine -- Your chart shows a 6x6x6 color cube PLUS a grey ramp PLUS red, blue, and green ramps... Colors in the 6x6x6 color cube are OFTEN not displayed as dithered, but there's no iron-clad guarantee... Macintosh windows has the grey ramp in its default system palette, but Windows does NOT... Neither system has all the red, blue, and green ramp colors in the basic non-dithering 8-bit pallete..."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (19:13)", "body": "So Henry, is the chart good for our purposes. Should I put it in the tags tutorial???"}, {"response": 29, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (00:24)", "body": "And Henry, is there a way to tell which of the colors on that chart are on everyone's palettes, and therefore safest to use? And what is a \"ramp\" and how does one tell one \"ramp\" from another. (Well, I think I can tell the grey one OK. )"}, {"response": 30, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (06:03)", "body": "I believe if you keep your \"RGB\" numbers divisible by 3 you will be fairly safe."}, {"response": 31, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (14:44)", "body": "Ann, the chart is fine to use as a list of sample colors and their corresponding Hexadecimal RGB codes, but it seems to be implied that these colors are all \"safe\" non-dithering colors, which is not actually the case... Katy, 6x6x6 cube colors have the value of each of the three components divisible by 51, which is \"33\" in hexadecimal. [[Insert audio of Tom Lehrer's \"New Math\" song here...]]"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (15:37)", "body": "Kaffeine were you in Orem? My brother was a sales rep, pre-1994 layoffs. True story told to me by my cousin Noel: He was teaching his new assistant how to use the computer at her desk (this was about 8 years ago). She listened and nodded. When he asked her if she had any questions she stated she thought it was amazing how close they could get the paper to the glass (referring to the typing going on at the monitor). He said nothing, turned and walked straight to personnel and had her replaced. Ann thanks for the tutorial! I will be spending some time there now. Dina"}, {"response": 33, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (20:45)", "body": "6x6x6 cube colors have the value of each of the three components divisible by 51, which is \"33\" in hexadecimal. (((could someone say this in English? I don't speak math!)))"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (22:51)", "body": "\"Kaffeine were you in Orem?\" No, I worked at one of the outsourcing companies - National TechTeam - until 12/31/94, when they downsized us from about 60 people to about 10 (the project is gone altogether since Corel). I just heard that NTT got a contract for tech support on a web browser - I'm wondering if its one of the big 2, or a smaller company."}, {"response": 35, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (23:00)", "body": "\"6x6x6 cube colors have the value of each of the three components divisible by 51, which is \"33\" in hexadecimal.' thanks Henry - I knew there was an explanation for the '33' syndrom that I was only half remembering. Joan: \"RGB\" numbers are values between 0 and 256 (decimal) 0-FF (Hexadecimal) for the three colors used by computers - red, green, and blue. When you use the \"color=\" parameter in HTML, you give it a six character number (ie: 0000FF is no red, no green, full blue. 000000 is black {no color} FFFFFF is white {all colors at full value}). There are 256x256x256 possible combos here but your terminal will display fewer than that. Most of the values on the chart Henry sent are have 00, 33, 66, 99, CC, or F as the value. If you try using other numbers, you will find that your screen displays them sort of to the nearest '33'. IE: 00AB00m and 008A00 and 009900 will probably all appear as the same shade of green on your screen. goota go - the ball is falling!!! Happy new year!!!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (05:04)", "body": "Thanks Katy, but this is still not English. Perhaps I can figure out increments of 3, but I still do not understand what HC meant about dividing anything with letters in it by 51."}, {"response": 37, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (07:44)", "body": "Joan, \"hexadecimal\" is base 16, so 33 (16) is (3x16)+(3x1) = 48+3 =51 in decimal. I think you're dating yourself -- you came a little before the \"new math\", where they taught all about bases in elementary grades. My father owned all three of the Tom Lehrer albums when I was a child, so you'll allow me to indulge in a little nostalgia, and include the following song lyric, which explains it all very clearly http://www.local.com/~tnewsom/tom.lehrer/ New Math Some of you who have small children may have perhaps been put in the embarrassing position of being unable to do your child's arithmetic homework because of the current revolution in mathematics teaching known as the New Math. So as a public service here tonight I thought I would offer a brief lesson in the New Math. Tonight we're going to cover subtraction. This is the first room I've worked for a while that didn't have a blackboard so we will have to make due with more primitive visual aids, as they ay in the \"ad biz.\" Consider the following subtraction problem, which I will put up here: 342 - 173. Now remember how we used to do that. 3 from 2 is 9 carried to 1 and if you're under 35 or went to a private school you say 7 from 3 is 6, but if you're over 35 and went to a public school you say 8 from 4 is 6, carried to 1 so we have 169, but in the new approach, as you know, the important thing is to understand what you're doing rather than to get the right answer. Here's how they do it now. You can't take three from two, Two is less than three, So you look at the four in the tens place. Now that's really four tens, So you make it three tens, Regroup, and you change a ten to ten ones, And you add them to the two and get twelve, And you take away three, that's nine. Is that clear? Now instead of four in the tens place You've got three, 'Cause you added one, That is to say, ten, to the two, But you can't take seven from three, So you look in the hundreds place. From the three you then use one To make ten ones... (And you know why four plus minus one Plus ten is fourteen minus one? 'Cause addition is commutative, right?) And so you've got thirteen tens, And you take away seven, And that leaves five... Well, six actually. But the idea is the important thing. Now go back to the hundreds place, And you're left with two. And you take away one from two, And that leaves...? Everybody get one? Not bad for the first day! Hooray for new math, New-hoo-hoo-math, It won't do you a bit of good to review math. It's so simple, So very simple, That only a child can do it! Now actually, that is not the answer that I had in mind, because the book that I got this problem out of wants you to do it in base eight. But don't panic. Base eight is just like base ten really -- if you're missing two fingers. Shall we have a go at it? Hang on. You can't take three from two, Two is less than three, So you look at the four in the eights place. Now that's really four eights, So you make it three eights, Regroup, and you change an eight to eight ones, And you add them to the two, and you get one-two base eight, Which is ten base ten, And you take away three, that's seven. Now instead of four in the eights place You've got three, 'Cause you added one, That is to say, eight, to the two, But you can't take seven from three, So you look at the sixty-fours. \"Sixty-four? How did sixty-four get into it?\" I hear you cry. Well, sixty-four is eight squared, don't you see? (Well, you ask a silly question, and you get a silly answer.) From the three you then use one To make three eights. And you add those eights to the three, And you get one-three base eight, Or, in other words, In base ten you have eleven, And you take away seven, And seven from eleven is four. Now go back to the sixty-fours, And you're left with two, And you take away one from two, And that leaves...? Now, let's not always see the same hands. One, that's right! Whoever got that one can stay after class and clean the erasers. Hooray for new math, New-hoo-hoo-math, It won't do you a bit of good to review math. It's so simple, So very simple, That only a child can do it! http://www.local.com/~tnewsom/tom.lehrer/"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "Joan, I'm with you - I don't speak math, or anything later than ordinary arithmetic! I loved the Tom Lehrer page, though, H.C. We have a collection of his records (old LPs) and last year finally found them on CD, so reaquainted myself with them. They're great fun.:-)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (13:25)", "body": "Grateful for Hex Triplet Color Chart kindly provided (must tell Kathleen Elder that the Swedish word witch is=h\ufffdxa(compare hex!). Also thanks to Katy for RGB-explanation (it spread some light into a confused mind). The color chart somehow reminded me of another Tom Lehrer text: There's a green one, and a blue one, a red one and a yellow one.... Little boxes and they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same ..."}, {"response": 40, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (15:40)", "body": "\"Thanks Katy, but this is still not English.\" Sorry, Joan. I date myself by thinking thinking hexadecimal numbering is second nature to everyone at all involved with computers. The Hexadecimal system, base 16, uses the digits 0-9 plus the letters A, B, C, D, E, & F. \"A\" is 10, base 15, \"B\" is 11, \"C\" is 12, ....\"F\" is 15. It evolved as a short hand for the binary system which is easy to understand but impossible to read in long strings. Each character in hex represents four bits in binary. \"F\" is \"1111\", \"C\" is \"1100\", etc. The color values 'CC99AA' in hex would look like \"110011001001100110101010\" in binary. If you are still reading with me, you can see why we computer pe ple learned to love the shorter hex system to represent machine language. In the RGB codes, each of the three colors is has 2 characters. Hence \"3300CC\" means a value of 33 (base 16) for red (which is 51, base 10), 00 for green, and CC for blue, (204, base 10). In English, that is a fairly bright blue with a little red mixed in - a rather purplish blue (lilac - maybe?). Tha amaturish rule of '33' is that as long as you use values of '00', '33', '66', '99', 'CC', and 'FF' for each of the three color values, you will get fairly consistent results on most 256-color monitors. This actually limits you to 196 colors(6x6x6), but that is more than enough for most graphics. There - more about the color chart than you care to know. BUT IN ENGLISH!!!."}, {"response": 41, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (16:28)", "body": "\"more about the color chart than you care to know. BUT IN ENGLISH!!!.\" Well, probably as close to English as it is posssible to get, but for the mathematically challenged probably no amount of translation is enough. \"Tha amaturish rule of '33' This is closer to my speed! :-) HC, they did try to teach us bases other than 10 - but they could never explain it in English. :-( (Reminds me of the statistics prof who, when a student who could have been I said that she did not understand his explanation replied that he did not know any other way to explain it. At that moment we all knew that we were doomed; we learned almost nothing in class and spent long hours on the telephone teaching ourselves from the textbook.) and they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same ..."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (16:56)", "body": "I've uptated the tutorial again to add the color chart, images, and emoticons: http://www.spring.com/~anneh/tagsaaaa.html Enjoy!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (18:10)", "body": "Katy -- an entirely admirable explanation, except that 6x6x6=216"}, {"response": 44, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (18:49)", "body": "\"Katy -- an entirely admirable explanation, except that 6x6x6=216 \" A nice person would not have mentioned that - esp on New Year's day!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (19:38)", "body": "thanks to all one question; if I do 2 things to the font, such as colour and size, do I have to close it {/font} once or twice? testing"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (19:39)", "body": "images don't work so well; I have trouble ascertaining where/when to insert a space..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (19:41)", "body": "I copied the green smiley address from the tute (maybe the frowney?)"}, {"response": 48, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (19:53)", "body": "Anna, you only need this part: htpp://www.spring.com/~amy/gfrown.gif or with the IP address: http://208.199.212.10/~amy/gfrown.gif"}, {"response": 49, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "(Interesting that it turned the one with an IP address into a link, but not the one with the domain name!) The whole command looks like this - substituting [ ] fir the pointy brackets: [IMG SRC=\" http://208.199.212.10/~amy/gfrown.gif\" ]"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "\"(Interesting that it turned the one with an IP address into a link, but not the one with the domain name!)\" Joan a typo is the culprit (htpp instead of http) :)"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (20:07)", "body": "I was using [IMG SRC=\"htpp://www.spring.com/~amy/gsmile.gif\"], except with greater and lesser than signs instead of the square brackets. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? My browser just shows image icons rather than the image; HC's pics work OK"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (20:09)", "body": "too slow me - but thanks! I'd never make a proff reader..."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "for anyone like myself , lazy &/or efficient; beware. Most of the links in the tute also appear as htpp, unless they mutated in copying."}, {"response": 54, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (20:26)", "body": "I'd never make a proff reader... Nor I! Amazing that with those 2 lines sitting within an inch of each other I should not have noticed the difference between htpp and http. Actually, I did not type either of them myself - copied one from Anna's link and the other from my own crib sheet of graphics URLs. I never type when I can cut and paste. My cutting and pasting skills are so much better than my typing skills! ;-)"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (21:29)", "body": "] My cutting and pasting skills are so much better than my typing skills! a sister of the scissors! Hurrah!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "So, is there a typo in the tutorial???? If there is, let me know so I can fix it."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (22:22)", "body": "Ladies and Gentlemen, My most profound apologies. There was indeed an error in the tutorial. I'm sorry for any inconvenience this might have caused you. I assure you, the error has been corrected. Sincerely Yours, Ann p.s. Please E-mail me if you find any other errors. I will correct them as soon as possible."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (22:25)", "body": "Ann, I think there may be; I copied the info on gifs and pasted it into a text file, and all the addresses I copied had htpp instead of http. I don't think I can have done it with a straight copy and paste, but my skills are very basic and I wouldn't swear to anything. Great Tutorial !!!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (22:53)", "body": ""}, {"response": 60, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (22:54)", "body": ""}, {"response": 61, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "Anna -- each [FONT] tag should be closed, but if you want to change two things at once, you can do it in a single font tag: [FONT SIZE=\"+2\" COLOR=\"#33cc99\"] Size and color changed! [/FONT]"}, {"response": 62, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "Yes lets not forget to close like I did..."}, {"response": 63, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (16:00)", "body": "thanks HC"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "I have updated the tutorial (again). It now contains all seventy of the graphic smiley faces which Amy had HC scan, such as: To get directly to the graphical-smileys page: http://www.spring.com/~anneh/emotica.html"}, {"response": 65, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (21:31)", "body": "Nice job, Ann. I'd still like to do something a little different with them, but you got them up a lot faster than I ever would have gotten around to it. Now for some sound..."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (22:13)", "body": "Amy, what would you like to do with them??"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (22:13)", "body": ""}, {"response": 68, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (22:22)", "body": "Not quite sure yet, Ann. Maybe nothing is needed. Everybody seems to love them. But the neat thing about the web is, everything's a draft."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:27)", "body": "Some of the pictures would work well with different names. I was thinking that maybe some should be offered without the names attached to them, so people could decide for themselves."}, {"response": 70, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "Yes, Amy was saying the same thing, and I agreed with her that this expression, for example, could go with other feelings:"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "And certainly this one:"}, {"response": 72, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (20:50)", "body": "Yes, Amy was saying the same thing, and I agreed with her that this expression, for example, could go with other feelings: Ah, yes. The Yiddish expression."}, {"response": 73, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (22:34)", "body": "LOL! The wit of the contributors here in unparalleled."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (19:54)", "body": "I have loaded up the graphical smileys without the names on them. So if you like this picture: , but you do not want the name \"loaded attached to it: , you can use it. The addresses are basically the same as given in the tutorial: http://www.spring.com/~anneh/tagsaaaa.html but with the suffix \"2\", such as loaded2.gif or happy2.gif"}, {"response": 75, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (19:58)", "body": "Thanks, Ann."}, {"response": 76, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (20:01)", "body": "Sure, Babe."}, {"response": 77, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "]graphical smileys without the names on them. imagination runs riot! thanks muchly"}, {"response": 78, "author": "krisg", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "The Tutorial was very very good and easy to understand. I want to thank you for your effor. This is my visit here. I very much enjoyed the visit. Thank you very much Gopal."}, {"response": 79, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (00:26)", "body": "LOL Gopal! What a quick study! ;-)"}, {"response": 80, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (08:03)", "body": "No kidding. Good going Gopal. We're looking forward to your future visits here."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (16:03)", "body": "Maybe I ought to put this question in the Topic \"incredibly dumb...\" but this Topic-name also has an indulgent ring to it so... Does this mean that you can change the colour and/or size of a smiley or one of Ann's emoticons ? Using the formula above I mean... I suppose not...how could that be done?"}, {"response": 82, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "Where is the formula above to which you are referring? There is no formula in the immediately preceding posting (#80)."}, {"response": 83, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (20:43)", "body": "Ann2 -- no, you can't change an image with HTML tags; you need an image editing program for that... I have an image of the raw large emoticon sheet in its original black and white form (before I changed black to #1F81A6 in Adobe Photoshop), but I've only cut off two or three individual emoticons from it... No-one has broken it up into 70 individual emoticons as Ann has done with the #1F81A6 version..."}, {"response": 84, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "That one is a real beginner's : If I have a picture/image as a file in my computer can I post it on the internet and how should I proceed. I can change the size of an image/picture taken on the internet by saving in on my computer and resizing it with Corel Photo-paint (since on Windoze), how to put it back on line, how to post it on our BB ?"}, {"response": 85, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (23:55)", "body": "I highly recommend Lview (read about it in our apps conference). It makes resizing a snap."}, {"response": 86, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (00:07)", "body": "Thanks a million Terry, BTW I just started conquering NetMeeting and NetTerm for your conference"}, {"response": 87, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (01:01)", "body": "Johanne: If I have a picture/image as a file in my computer can I post it on the internet and how should I proceed. You can, especially here, because Terry will give those who want one a shell account which gives you a directory to put them into. Or else, you can e-mail it to someone who already has one and have them upload it to their directory from which anyone can access it. Many graphics applications will allow you to re-size a graphic, but before uploading they should also be compressed into either a .gif or .jpeg (.jpg) format. This will make them take up less space on the server and load more quickly when being displayed. The .gif and .jpg formats can also be viewed by any machine type - which is why .gif - Graphic Interchange Format - was first created (by CompuServe) - so that images could be shared among different kinds of computers."}, {"response": 88, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (21:28)", "body": "Would you like your own shell account Joan. Email Amy or myself and we'll be glad to set it up for you and you can be on the way to your own little corner of the web. Your own web page. Any contributor on the Spring is welcome to a web page."}, {"response": 89, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (21:34)", "body": "I meant Johanne. Joan too, though."}, {"response": 90, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (23:25)", "body": "Joan already has one."}, {"response": 91, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (08:23)", "body": "Is anyone with a web not listed in our user listing? http://www.spring.com/users.html Of course if you want to be unlisted, we can do that too."}, {"response": 92, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "Terry, I'm definitely will be asking for a little space of my own (with pretty pleezes) and Amy already made me the gift of a shell account. Let me just finish reading Internet for dummies, More internet for dummies and HTML for dummies first, dear. I got NetTerm and NetMeeting, think I know how to use them (?) but having figured why yet.... this only goes to show where I come from"}, {"response": 93, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "Confident with Unix, Joan?? My what a change this is ;-)"}, {"response": 94, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:18)", "body": "HC: Confident with Unix, Joan?? My what a change this is ;-) Who said anything about confident??? Certainly not I! Most of the tiny speck of UNIX that actually I know anything about has been forced down my throat past my tightly clenched teeth!"}, {"response": 95, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (17:39)", "body": "Linda - I really hesitate to say this when you are so happy... Explorer isn't going to help. The problem is with Prodigy's firewall, and using IE won't help with that. I'm so sorry!! We WILL find a solution to this - I promise!!"}, {"response": 96, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (18:49)", "body": "\"Proxy cache server\", not \"firewall\", right?"}, {"response": 97, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (19:54)", "body": "Kaf, if I make a \"Yeah, yeah, whatever\" graphic, I will share it with you."}, {"response": 98, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (22:29)", "body": "I'm sure this doesn't belong here, but I don't want to look around forever. Why do the messages post with a time stamp that is 26 minutes later than the actual time?"}, {"response": 99, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "Actually, the was nearly a day ahead. Next time you see this anyone, please mailto://terry@spring.com or mailto://amy@spring.com and one of of can reset the system clock with the date command."}, {"response": 100, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (23:51)", "body": "date [-nu] [-d dst] [-r seconds] [-t minutes_west] [+format] [[yy[mm[dd[hh]]]]mm[.ss]]"}, {"response": 101, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (02:39)", "body": "date [-nu] [-d dst] [-r seconds] [-t minutes_west] [+format] [[yy[mm[dd[hh]]]]mm[.ss]] (((Now I know I'm computer illiterate!"}, {"response": 102, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (07:54)", "body": "Joan, in UNIX, when you type man date you get a manual on how to use the date command. The date command also sets the time. So to set the date *and* time at a shell prompt (similar to a dos prompt) you type something like this: bash$ date 970223075205 Which will set the date to the year 97, the month Feb, the date the 23rd and the time the 07th hour and 52nd minute and 05th second. Does that help?"}, {"response": 103, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (09:17)", "body": "bash$ date 970223075205 Terry, Don't try to explain Unix to Joan. It just makes her cranky. You can also email me at mailto://mrobens@spring.com"}, {"response": 104, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "OK. Our date and time are back on track now. but it might cause today s response to look like the day before's."}, {"response": 105, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (00:27)", "body": "Thought you might all enjoy this... Top 10 reasons computers must be male: 10. They have a lot of data but are still clueless. 9. A better model is always just around the corner. 8. They look nice and shiny until you bring them home. 7. It is always necessary to have a back-up. 6. They'll do whatever you say if you push the right buttons. 5. The best part of having either one is the games you can play. 4. In order to get their attention, you have to turn them on. 3. The lights are on but nobody's home. 2. Big power surges knock them out for the night. 1. Size does matter."}, {"response": 106, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (02:26)", "body": "Myretta: Terry, Don't try to explain Unix to Joan. It just makes her cranky. She's got that one right!"}, {"response": 107, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (02:31)", "body": "Cheryl, you left off the second half of the joke (this is slightly more geeky, and is about compilers for computer languages such as \"C\" or \"BASIC\"): Top 10 reasons compilers must be female: ======================================== 10. Picky, picky, picky. 9. They hear what you say, but not what you mean. 8. Beauty is only shell deep. 7. When you ask what's wrong, they say \"nothing\". 6. Can produce incorrect results with alarming speed. 5. Always turning simple statements into big productions. 4. Smalltalk is important. 3. You do the same thing for years, and suddenly it's wrong. 2. They make you take the garbage out. 1. Miss a period and they go wild"}, {"response": 108, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (02:58)", "body": "LOL HC! :-)"}, {"response": 109, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (07:04)", "body": "Cheryl and HC, now I can start the morning with a smile on my face :-)"}, {"response": 110, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "Cheryl and HC: ROTFLOL. Showed my husband the first, his comment \"Evil!\", then found the second and he was much happier!! I love them both!;-)"}, {"response": 111, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "hate to say this.... but my posts are all dated an hour behind. Is this my problem, or the systems?"}, {"response": 112, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (17:15)", "body": "hate to say this.... but my posts are all dated an hour behind. Is this my problem, or the systems? Neither, Kate. The server this system is on is in Austin, Texas"}, {"response": 113, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (12:47)", "body": "We're on CST."}, {"response": 114, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (18:08)", "body": "Thanks for helping one tiny bit on this long and intricate journey to divine computor control, HC, Terry and Joan, too. Some day I would like a place to put my stuff, Terry but I am a slow learner. Two big LOL:s are always a help to relax, am grateful for that too HC and Cherzo."}, {"response": 115, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (18:15)", "body": "Now I just tried to understand what went wrong with emoticon. For that purpose I clicked view document source: But got some scary message on missing post and then some nasty advice to reload. Is that not what causes All new desease? Is there a way to view my own last message after it is posted? To see what was wrong?"}, {"response": 116, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (18:46)", "body": "Was it really scary, Ann2. Was it fwightening? No, no known cause, no known cure for Oldiznew. No such number, no such zone. When you get that HTML checker message? I usually copy my message right then, but not try to correct it in the window that points out the error. Instead, go back to the previous page and paste it in again, then correcting it of course, and resubmit. To check your error yourself, just view source. You know how to do that."}, {"response": 117, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (18:57)", "body": "No Amy I got no HTML error message...Just that annoying cracked picture And Zat meiks me furiush!! I was not enlightened by viewing source in that prevoius case re:114 No risk to reload then? Can you pwomiz me? Have you tidied up after me on pond site???And do cake tare!"}, {"response": 118, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (20:53)", "body": "Reloading is a danger here. Be very afraid."}, {"response": 119, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (23:29)", "body": "Ann2, in message 114 you had a URL error, not an HTML error; instead of having \"/~anneh/\" in the URL, the \"~\" and the \"a\" somehow got combined together, and you had \"/\u00e3nneh/\"..."}, {"response": 120, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (08:18)", "body": "Why thanks Hc I am grateful to know but would also like to know just how you can tell . Thanks to some Unix and zfinx and oinx and I know not whatsx, that are all in your command ?? When I click view source it is all gone from what I gather."}, {"response": 121, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (10:15)", "body": "Well, a lot of the time I'm using \"Lynx\", which doesn't pay any attention to the no-cache HTTP headers. But you can view source even in an inferior browser like Netscape ;-) if you use the \"redisplay\" button at the bottom, and then run \"View Source\" on THAT page..."}, {"response": 122, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (18:31)", "body": "Maybe someone here can help us. Last week we had to re-install Win 3. Since then we have had a problem with colours in Netscape (2.01 whatever). Photos appear blotchy grey/black/white, with odd garish patches of red, yellow or blue. However other graphics, like Henry's Coat of Arms, for example, are fine. The chat room, usually pink, is white. Any suggestions that might help?"}, {"response": 123, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (19:09)", "body": "Have you tried minimizing, then restoring, a few times? I had this same problem with Netscape when I first downloaded it."}, {"response": 124, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (20:42)", "body": "Hey that coat of arms is for Amy -- my initials aren't \"AB\". It may have something to do with the handling of image colors; in some sub-menu somewhere, you can check off options for \"Always dither\", \"Always Substitute Colors\", or \"Automatically choose between Dither and Substitute\". It sounds like you may have \"Always Substitute\" selected, which is porbably not what you want... Also, make sure your video driver is at least 256 colors..."}, {"response": 125, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (14:44)", "body": "Susan, thanks but that doesn't fix it. Thanks Henry. We have it on 'auto choose' already, so I think it is a problem to do with the 256 colours. We tried choosing one of the 256 palette options (VGA, I think), but that choice then crashed us again. We will keep trying, however. But the coat of arms was of your making......"}, {"response": 126, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Oct 24, 2000 (08:00)", "body": "Whatever became of Austinite Henry Churchill? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 101, "subject": "early Darcy and Elizabeth A&E/BBC publicity shot", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (15:57)", "body": "Laura, you shouldn't put the URL of an HTML page in [IMG SRC=\"...\"] Here's the page: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/3891/austened.htm And here's the picture: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/3891/peng_1.jpg"}, {"response": 2, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "I fixed it created another topic because this one was gone. but it is a great shot. thanks anyway. Always learning with this dang thing."}, {"response": 3, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:29)", "body": "dang thing you meaning Dangling thing? For you sweet Cheryl ;)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "...uh...thank you Johanne...I think...;-)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (17:50)", "body": "Moved from Topic 160: Item 160 entered Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (15:58) by Laura McCarthy (LauraMM) Second Try Early Publicity shot of Darcy and Elizabeth 3 responses total. Topic 160 of 164: 'Second Try Early Publicity shot of Darcy and Elizabeth' Response 1 of 3: Kali Pappas (Kali) Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:48) 1 lines Very nice. Topic 160 of 164: 'Second Try Early Publicity shot of Darcy and Elizabeth' Response 2 of 3: Johanne (JohanneD) Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:32) 3 lines Her first wig perhaps ! She does look rather matronlike, much prefer the dangling curls halo-ing her fine eyes ;) Topic 160 of 164: 'Second Try Early Publicity shot of Darcy and Elizabeth' Response 3 of 3: Joan, too (jwinsor) Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (22:33) 1 lines Actually, neither looks very much \"in character\" yet, either. They look kind of like people wearing costumes rather than people who lived in that clothing."}, {"response": 6, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (18:06)", "body": "Moved from topic 164 Item 164 entered Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (13:53) by Laura McCarthy (LauraMM) Drool over this one if you dare No matter what anyone thinks this one is the best. This one is even better 14 responses total. Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 1 of 14: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (14:02) 1 lines Yes, Laura, the second one is better, but I love the caption on the first one: \"Ideal Breeding material\" indeed! ;-) And what a wicked glance! Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 2 of 14: Margaret Howard (Meggin) Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (14:17) 1 lines Thank you very much, Laura. I needed new wallpaper! :) Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 3 of 14: Mari Topitzes (Mari) Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (15:23) 3 lines Methinks Mr. Firth was camping things up a bit in that first photo. My new parlor game is for us to identify what stage direction he was just given. My suggestion for photo 1 is; 'act as though you are trying to identify the foundation garment Ms. Ehle is wearing' ;) Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 4 of 14: Laura McCarthy (LauraMM) Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (15:33) 12 lines I have more photos. He look worse for the wear here Looking quite different in all of the pictures Okay I have done my part in giving you wonderful pictures of Mr Firth. Please don't beat me up because of my love for Rupert Graves. I think if you all saw a movie with him in it, you would totally understand my obsession. He is REALLY cute. Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 5 of 14: Dina (Dina) Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (15:42) 1 lines \"Freddy, you think you are being truthful, but all it is is abominable conceit!\" Or is it when he is \"actually in e-flat\". I know it's when he wants to \"go have a bathe\". Yes he is too cute. Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 6 of 14: Inko (Inko) Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (18:01) 3 lines Thanks Laura for posting these pictures. I, too, like the second one but when I try it for wallpaper it spreads wide and looks completely distorted. How do I keep it in proportion?? I've also decided that CF definitely needs longer hair - the haircut in TEP makes him look awful in comparison to all the other shots. I really like the yellow portrait; just wish it weren't so color=\"ffffOO\">yellow ! Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 7 of 14: Ann (Ann) Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (22:12) 1 lines In the book Making of P&P, they mention the hair nets that the women and the men had to wear to keep their hair in place off camera. Now, Colin's hair may not look quaffed, but I'm sure it took a while to get the right level of messiness, and that the hairdressers would not want him to mess it up while he was waiting for a shot. So what I want to know is: did anyone on the set snap a pic of Colin in one of those technicolor nets? Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 8 of 14: Susan Christie (Susan) Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (00:01) 1 lines I'M DROOLING, I'M DROOLING! But where is that picture of Rupert Graves, Laura? Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 9 of 14: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (00:10) 1 lines I really like the soccer photo...not sure why, maybe it's the messy hair...the 5 o'clock shadow...(shivers) ;-) Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 10 of 14: Laura McCarthy (LauraMM) Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (08:42) 4 lines Okay susan here is the old picture of Rupert Graves, I'm still trying to hunt down new photos but with no luck I like this one, but I wish it were in color. Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 12 of 14: Johanne (JohanneD) Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (09:29) 1 lines response awaiting in http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/read/drool/3/new Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 13 of 14: Amy Wolf (amy2) Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (11:26) 1 lines Thanks Laura, for all these great pix! What's your secret source? Topic 164 of 164: 'Drool over this one if you dare' Response 14 of 14: Karen Bowdre (Karen) Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (13:14) 1 lines Oh, Laura!! Thank you, thank you, thank you. Unfortunately, the Rupert Graves photos didn't download on my screen. But the Firth pictures are excellent. Being the child of two IBM's, I have seen that acronym used many ways but the use in the first pic is truly exquisite!!!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:41)", "body": "I am truly glad they changed JE's hair as they went along! She does not look at all Lizzie-like in the above!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "law", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (19:54)", "body": "None of the images loaded for me in this conference. I clicked on the URLs in response #1 and was led to a page telling me that the URLs did not exist. Can someone tell me where to find them? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 103, "subject": "JA in the nineties", "response_count": 19, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (15:04)", "body": "I've had an offhand silly opinoin about it: she'd be doing web pages of parodies on Fordyce's Sermons. But I'd like to think about it more seriously. Thanks for the idea, Caroline."}, {"response": 2, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (17:44)", "body": "\"she'd be doing web pages of parodies on Fordyce's Sermons. \" ROTFLOL!!!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (18:15)", "body": "And Fordyce's would be....? I think she would be as progressive as .... I don't know. I think if I wrote a book I would not want bodice ripping. I would write like a 1950's movie: fade to black during the kiss. Which would mean no one would want to buy my books. Which would mean I would be stuck reading about old, morally prudent writers on the internet. Hmmmm. Wouldn't it be grand to be such a great writer that you could imply things so beautifully that graphic descriptions would be banal? Like Lydia and Wickham: you know what's going on there but we don't have to hear all the slimy details. I know I am being naive, but isn't that required in a romantic? Amy, oh wise one, I wait your appraisal."}, {"response": 4, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (18:25)", "body": "In the 90's, Austen would have opportunities she never had, more avenues to express her self and her art. She would not have to even be a novelist. Anna Quindlan's old job is still open, isn't it?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (20:45)", "body": "She would not have to even be a novelist You don't think she would have had stories buzzing around her head all the time ?Somehow, with talent like hers, I think a few books would have been produced. (Anna Quindlan? don't know her- please tell!) she'd be doing web pages of parodies on Fordyce's Sermons. And writng \"The Vicar of Dibley,\" no doubt! I think she would be a feminist, for sure."}, {"response": 6, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "The feminin side to Michael Crichton or Tom Clancy's blockbusters, instead of war/thriller/criminal plot a more femininist (and feminin) point of view on human relationship thriller type of novels, and definitely movies adaptations. Something of quality, BBC's like, definitely not movie of the week."}, {"response": 7, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (22:24)", "body": "JA with a word processor - how many great stories would we have had!!!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (22:42)", "body": "You know, it could be that she was not driven to write, but just to do something, and writing was one of her few options."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (22:46)", "body": "Perhaps a sociologist, a folklorist, or a columnist (like a cross b/t Herb Caen and Anna Quindlen...very common-sense and subtle, upbeat, appreciative of life, and very hard on the longfaced and serious of the world)."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "Very true, Amy...but she was very good at it. She would have a plethora of verbal-type options open to her today because of that fact."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (22:51)", "body": "] verbal-type options __ Court TV commentator?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (22:51)", "body": "Sorry JA. Not funny. Kali are you going over to meet Amy2?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (22:54)", "body": "I'm on my way...I've been trying to clean up here...My modem is broken, and I'm at the computer lab..."}, {"response": 14, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (22:55)", "body": "Caroline: I meant to say she would not have even HAD to be a novelist. What Austen committed to paper is not so much stories and plots as it is character study and commentary on human nature. Anna Quindlan left the New York Times about a year ago, where she wrote a column a couple of times a week about her observations of the world. She also has a couple of books out, one being a fantastic collection of her essays. My guess that a woman in Jane's day was not taken as seriously as a writer like Quindla is today. What little I have read about how Austen's writings were viewed then, seemed to be that her books were basicly considered \"fluff' pieces. The reality is, she is pretty damn deep."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (23:30)", "body": "Sharon, unfortunately, there are still many today that think JA is fluff."}, {"response": 16, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (00:32)", "body": "Karen: That is true, and perhaps we project more into the work than she ever indended. But is would not have lasted 184 years without something inherent in it that we still respond to."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (07:41)", "body": "Do you think she could have written the screenplay for \"Clueless\"?I havn't seen it, so I don't know."}, {"response": 18, "author": "alix", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (18:27)", "body": "Maybe, Caroline, but I don't know if she would have had in so many double-enterdes(sorry. The last spelling bee I was in was in 3rd grade). Jane as a screenwriter does sound intersting, though. Any ideas out there?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Oct 24, 2000 (08:01)", "body": "No ideas, I'm clueless on this. Anyone else? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 104, "subject": "Clueless", "response_count": 76, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (21:01)", "body": "Oh, I must defend Clueless ! I absolutely loved the movie! I thought it took Austen's central moral concerns and presented them in a contemporary setting so as to show that the problems we have, and decisions we make, are essentially the same, in any era. I'm not sure, Lilian, what it is that displeased you about the characters. Was it their sexual awareness? Their trivial interests (malls, dances, popularity)? Austen's girls were mostly just as silly. They're young, remember. I thought that Alicia Silverstone's character began to grow up as the movie progressed, and that she showed the same moral honesty as Emma Woodhouse, and had an even kinder heart. Yes, it's true that we're a long way from Regency England in terms of manners and elegance (*sigh*), but the beauty of Austen's novels is that they're as true now as they were 200 years ago. And that, I think, is what Clueless was trying to show us."}, {"response": 2, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (22:18)", "body": "http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/clueless.html"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Linda", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (22:46)", "body": "I agree with Anne's defense of Clueless. The Austen themes came through loud and clear, despite the modern setting! Lilian, I agree that the manners and civility of Austen's time seem idyllic compared to our mannerless society. It helps me to remember that that time wasn't without its serious defects. They hanged children for stealing food to eat, illiteracy was the norm, and women were basically property of their husbands. I guess I can live without someone bowing over my hand, all things considered!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (22:53)", "body": "Loved Clueless - I thought part of its charm is that it captured both part of the spirit of today's youth culture and JA plot. The movie was a box-office success in its own right. those of us who watched it for its JA connection are a very small minority."}, {"response": 5, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (22:55)", "body": "Henry - your Web page about the Clueless/JA connection was one of the first JA items I found on the Web."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (23:03)", "body": "]how trashy some female teenagers are. and were; consider a certain Miss Lydia Bennet, also Lucy Steele, the Bertram girls, to name but a few. I don't think human nature has changed much since our ancestors left the trees; the trappings change, not the people."}, {"response": 7, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "Here..here! I also enjoyed Clueless but had not heard the connection with JA...interesting...."}, {"response": 8, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (19:07)", "body": "Enjoyed Clueless very very much indeed. An updated refreshing twist to what nature has been since the beginning of times. Technologies changes but not humans. Same old problems : girl meets boy, boy meets girl, boy slights girl, girl resent boy (or in this case doesnt now his there), boy intrigue by girl, boy wants girl (and sometime realize he made a fool of himself in the meantime[is this getting back at the other sex, but I like that part], girl realize boy not that bad, girl want boy, etc.... and som where at the end, they live happily ever after. Our attitudes and some rules might differ but the same urges compels us toward to each others and so are certain values like pride and vanity. No mather how you slice it, the Cinderella story still is very appealing to us 90's woman."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Lilian", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (20:38)", "body": "OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK Hey, I enjoyed \"Clueless\" as well but I sometimes find females a little aggravating (be it this century or last). Now don't all jump at me because I am a female and what's more, I am young - the age dear Lizzie was when she met Darcy. \"Clueless\" was just at a very different angle and since I am still in the era of seeing \"P&P2\", \"Emma\", \"Anne of Green Gables\" etc... and then seeing this, I guess it was a shock to my system. :)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Lilian", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (20:39)", "body": "OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK OK Hey, I enjoyed \"Clueless\" as well but I sometimes find females a little aggravating (be it this century or last). Now don't all jump at me because I am a female and what's more, I am young - the age dear Lizzie was when she met Darcy. \"Clueless\" was just at a very different angle and since I am still in the era of seeing \"P&P2\", \"Emma\", \"Anne of Green Gables\" etc... and then seeing this, I guess it was a shock to my system. :) Lilian"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (22:41)", "body": "Women suck sometimes, Lilian. Young women can be very silly, and sometimes very mean and spiteful. Especially when they gang up against some chosen or arbitrary victim (it seems not to matter!) and tear them to pieces like the maenads tearing apart a goat. Even one-on-one, it's oftentimes this territorial cat-hissing dance. I try not to participate. I'm also young...one-and-twenty...not very much older than you are. Like you, I was not terribly impressed with Clueless. Something was lost in the translation for me."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (23:57)", "body": "I enjoy a little territorial cat-hissing every now and then, but draw the line with maenads tearing apart a goat. What outstanding visuals!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (01:28)", "body": "We are animals."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (02:56)", "body": "I enjoy a little territorial cat-hissing every now and then We are animals. Mmmrrrooowwww! FFFFTTTTTTT!!!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "geekman", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (06:12)", "body": "Lilian, I am glad that you finally made it to the austen conference here at The Spring . BTW everyone Lilian is back! :-)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Adi", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (16:17)", "body": "I saw clueless and enjoyed it very much (that Josh is very very cute...) Lilian, I'm also young (20) and share your opinion about young females nowadays. it seems that a lot of women today lack the elegance that 18th century women possess. I often find myself thinking how perfectly I'm fitting to Jane Austen's world, and how nice it would be to live in that era."}, {"response": 17, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (17:25)", "body": "Adi: See the above posting regarding the realities of that era."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (17:44)", "body": "Lillian ] \"Clueless\" was just at a very different angle ... and then seeing this, I guess it was a shock to my system. Hi Lillian, first of all hullo, I too am from Aus but arrived after you stopped posting. I agree with your take on the trappings of modern society; I don't think human nature has changed but those who wish to indulge a taste for vulgarity have more scope these days; Lycra was only invented about 20 years ago ;-) Kali ] Young women can be very silly, and sometimes very mean and spiteful. Especially when they gang up against some chosen or arbitrary victim fair go for all! I agree with you Kali, but let us not forget that men, especially when young, and especially in groups are also capable of both silly and nasty behaviour; more macho/tough than their sisters, but also not appealing. At the risk of seeming nerdishly earnest, I reckon the sexes are pretty much equal in virtues and vices. Fortunately there is usually an improvement with age, unfortunately a deterioration with numbers. There is good and bad in most people, but I can't think of anything go d about a mob. Adi ] a lot of women today lack the elegance that 18th century women possess. I often find myself thinking how perfectly I'm fitting to Jane Austen's world, and how nice it would be to live in that era. both the men and women showed a restraint that I reckon would be a decoration to most people today. Pop psychology often says we should 'let it all hang out' and not repress our emotions; myself I agree with the quote (made here previously by ? Cheryl) from 'The African Queen'; Nature is what we are here to rise above . BUT (warning; nasty, boring reality intrusion) Life in the regency, and for most of human history was only elegant for the select few on the top of the heap. For most it was hard, often brutish and short. Furthermore the primitive medicine, plumbing and roads (to name but a few) were such that life away from the drawing rooms was ofter fairly inelegant even for the aristos."}, {"response": 19, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (18:05)", "body": "That I can take a hot shower every morning keeps ME firmly rooted in this century. And as far as eligance of behavior, I don't see a great deal of evidence of that in the Regency period. There are not many of Austen's characters that do not demonstrate shallowness, pettiness, as well as a lack of compassion, genuine friendship, and love."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (20:53)", "body": "Anna: having spent three years living in an all-female organization/group living enviroment (one of which I served as internal relations chair), I can safely say that A) many young women are psychotic, and B) macho is NOTHING to estrogen-enhanced insanity. No joke! Maybe the woman who wrote \"Reviving Ophelia\" had something going when she said that society allows girls to mess themselves up. Either that, or girls have a natural tendency towards irrationality. Hormones?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (00:12)", "body": "]girls have a natural tendency towards irrationality Strong Disagreement! Kali, I know some young women can be so silly and nasty they approach the psychotic, and that it gets much worse in groups, but I don't agree that it's invariable or inevitable, nor that women are inherently worse than men. Have you ever discussed the dynamics of a long-term closed adolescent male group with a close male friend? For both sexes some groups are worse than others, depending on the individuals involved. Comparing my own experience with that of my brothers (we were all at single sex schools for some years), and those unrelated male friends with whom I've discussed it, the females tend to be more 'cliquey', more passive-aggressive, but physical violence and risk-taking is more common and of greater extent in the males. There's alot of overlap between the groups though. It sounds like your experiences with female only groups have been alot worse than mine, but you may be generalising too much as a result; group 'insanity' is not inevitable, and no more likely in females than males, it just takes different forms. In my opinion neither sex is at it's best solo, most especially not in large groups. ]society allows girls to mess themselves up I do think it's worse in adolescence, partly because of society's expectations and partly because of the hormonal changes; that gets both sexes too. Society allows, almost expects young women to be silly/fluffy and bitchy; it also allows and expects young men to take silly physical risks, and to be more physically violent. The sort of behaviour we're talking about may be more common nowadays, because more people have the leisure and resources to do indulge in it, but we should also remember that any book, no matter how well written can only show us a partial view of society, and Jane Austen certainly chose to focus on the more mannered aspects of hers."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (03:11)", "body": "Have you ever discussed the dynamics of a long-term closed adolescent male group with a close male friend? Yeah, And I read Lord of the Flies..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (08:30)", "body": "Kali, you turn some memorable phrases...I loved \"territorial cat hissing\" and \"maenads tearing apart a goat\", but \"estrogen-enhanced insanity\" is priceless."}, {"response": 24, "author": "jane", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (09:39)", "body": "Kali, don't you think that if the women on this BB went to summer camp with each other, leaving behind both our dear men from the BB and all the other dear men we know, we would all have a hilarious and civilized time? Definitely no goat-tearing."}, {"response": 25, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (09:42)", "body": "Jane: Definitely no goat-tearing. Should I cancel the goat I've ordered for our February tea?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (10:58)", "body": "LOL, Myretta. No, leave the order in. And break me offa hunkov it, wouldya?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (19:08)", "body": "And break me offa hunkov it, wouldya? It's not proper to engage in proxy-maenadism, Amy. You simply must be there to do it yourself! Lady Catherine would be soooo disappointed in you, young lady! Jane: As of now, I have no reason to suspect that any of us are psycho, but with the internet as it is, i could be wrong...to appreciate Jane Austen, I think, one must be relatively clearthinking. Elaine: Thanks. I'm glad I'm entertaining you. After all, it is my ambition in life to be a clown for others' enjoyment."}, {"response": 28, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (22:58)", "body": "LOL - LOL - mercy on us. poor goats. I rather like girls and boys - and tend to blame society for every fault either group can be said to have. Boys need group acceptance in order to survive. Girls need absolute loyalty. Alpha males have to defend their position. Alpha females have to groom through their entourage. And PMS is our competitive edge - we just need to harness it. (ever been in a meeting with more than one alpha male - I swear, you want to hand them rulers and tell them to whip it out and measure it so we can get back to the agenda!!)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (23:42)", "body": "Katy: (ever been in a meeting with more than one alpha male - I swear, you want to hand them rulers and tell them to whip it out and measure it so we can get back to the agenda!!) Omigod! LOL! ;-)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (23:46)", "body": "]to whip it out and measure it ]Omigod! LOL! ;-)"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (04:33)", "body": "EEEEWWWWW!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (11:43)", "body": "Katy!LOL: That was spot on. I've felt that urge to just get them out of everybodies way. To some game-cock's arena."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "Katy ]- I swear, you want to hand them rulers and tell them to whip it out and measure it ROFL!!!!! Ann2 ] To some game-cock's arena. a happy thought indeed!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (18:48)", "body": "kendall, that is too perfect. I'm going to remember that during my next business meeting... LOVED Clueless. It was so fun watching for Emma parallels. And yes, Josh is pretty darn cute."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (02:59)", "body": "So true, katy, so true!!!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (08:46)", "body": "Kali, don't you think that if the women on this BB went to summer camp with each other, leavingbehind both our dear men from the BB and all the other dear men we know, we would all have a hilarious and civilized time? Definitely no goat-tearing. A thought to ponder. What camp activities did you have in mind,Jane?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (09:54)", "body": "One could use Whip It Out as a camping icebreaker, but it might be more amenable as a relay."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (18:25)", "body": "A thought to ponder. What camp activities did you have in mind,Jane? Well, I seem to remember campfires and sing-a-longs, and...um, making out behind the boathouse...but if we're not taking the men in our lives, who, prey tell, would we invite to make out with? Guess that would kind of defeat the purpose of the camp, eh?"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Lilian", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (20:42)", "body": "Hi Lillian, first of all hullo, I too am from Aus but arrived after you stopped posting. I agree with your take on the trappings of modern society; I don't think human nature has changed but those who wish to indulge a taste for vulgarity have more scope these days; Lycra was only invented about 20 years ago ;-) Hello there, Sorry about the delay...I keep on going back to the old PPBB and then get lost reading their messages and well.... So, which part of Oz are you from? Are you from a big city like um, Newcastle...hahaha (sorry Gav - couldn't help myself!). I didn't mean to start all these threads about Clueless.. I just wanted to point out that young females can be such a strange creature. I mean, I just feel so sorry for blokes today because they can get very confused as to what a young lady actually wants. (And) I find that in general, females have pretty wide mood swings."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "'I just feel so sorry for blokes today because they can get very confused as to what a young lady actually wants. (And) I find that in general, females have pretty wide mood swings.\" Lilian, I completely agree with you."}, {"response": 41, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "You guys aren't among the number of \"those young ladies who seek to recommend themselves to the other sex\", are you? \"In my opinion it is a paltry device, a very mean art.\" ;-) ;-)"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (02:45)", "body": "No art involved here, H...Forgive me for being unsisterly, but many young ladies are clinically insane. And that's the truth, said Edith Ann."}, {"response": 43, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (09:23)", "body": "'I just feel so sorry for blokes today because they can get very confused as to what a young lady actually wants. (And) I find that in general, females have pretty wide mood swings.\" I hate to be hard on some of our sex but lot's of time \"wimmin\" are confused themselves, society's pressure can be a burden in times of weakness, so go figure (outside of obvious differences) how can those two sexes can ever communicate efficiently."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "Schwing???"}, {"response": 45, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:42)", "body": "Elain, ever party-ed with Wayne and Garth if not : http://uk.imdb.com/cache/title-exact/95302 http://www.insa-lyon.fr/People/AEDI/mroussel/megateuf.html And if you care to listen to it, click on babe.wav at this link : http://www.moviesounds.com/waynesw.html"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "Lillian ] Are you from a big city like um, Newcastle...hahaha (sorry Gav - couldn't help myself!). well, as a matter of fact, yes: I am currently resident in Newcastle :-) I was born in Melbourne however and have been slwoly migrating North ever since..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (18:12)", "body": "\" ... but many young ladies are clinically insane. ... \" NO, no, no!!! A hundred times no. Women more confused than men today? Women subject to greater mood swings. Women less likely to know what they want? No, no, no! What do I know of young women and young men any way? I feel sorry for them all. But the power still belongs more to the male than the female - and therefore the female is needs to play a closer hand. Ex-wives and girlfriends do not beat, rape and murder their ex's with the same regularity that ex-husbands and boyfriends attack their ex's. There are more dead-beat dads than dead-beat moms. More women cut back their careers for parenthood than men. The only way in which young women are more confused than young men is that, because there are so many restrictions on what women can realistically expect and what they can safely do (Be all that you can be in the Army? But if you are female, better learn karate before you enlist!!) , they spend more years figuring which compromises are necessary and which can be avoided!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "So let's pray our sex instead of beating down on it. Don't we have a tendencies to disregard our own, putting it down, is this the fast paced/new competitiveness of the 20-21st century ? I do feel sad whenever another woman is generalizing and putting us down. What is it with us anyway ? you sure don't see man behaving this way..."}, {"response": 49, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (21:07)", "body": "Amen, Johanne!!!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (21:45)", "body": "I'm of the Dr. Laura Schlessinger school of psychology...women - especially young women - need to take control of themselves. So many of them don't. They do stupid, destructive, irrational things to themselves and others. I don't mean simple, honest, naive mistakes. I've seen so many girls take themselves down before anyone else can screw them up and over. It's too easy to blame PMS, male chauvenism, and parents, though I'm not discounting the fact that these can be problems. And I'm not generalizin . I said MANY...not ALL...not even MOST...but more than is excusable. Some will grow out of it. But some won't. And that's depressing."}, {"response": 51, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (21:57)", "body": "Among the young people I know (15-25), the young men seem as likely to be drifting as the young women. Maybe it I were in a university environment, I would be seeing differences but in my personal world - It takes a 3.5 average in a five-year comp sci. program to even get a job where I work so the young people are all pretty much motivated. In my own personal little world, I am seeing a cross-section of generation-x."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Oh Kali, you're a Dr. Laura fan too? My friends are so surprised that I enjoy her show - our politics are so different - but her advice is spot on and you just have to laugh at some of her callers... You'll get some guy calling saying he's married with 3 kids and is having an affair - and you just go \"Oh, this is gonna be fun - Is this guy a masochist to call or what?!\""}, {"response": 53, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (22:21)", "body": "I understand, Katy...I'm going from the people I grew up with...which is definitely a cross-section of many socioeconomic strata, as well as the people I have known and observed here at Cal and through general acquaintance elsewhere. Most of us are not quite Generation X. The kids I knew from stockton are statistically more pathetic than those I have met in college (high percentages of teen pregancy, for example, among intelligent girls with good grades and devoted parents), but the psychos here in Berk ley are first-class. Since there are so many of us here, the extremes are extreme. And when I say psycho, I mean it. For example, I saw a group of disgruntled girls try to stress a middle-aged woman out to the point that she would miscarry in her last possible attempt to have a child...and succeed. But for every nutcase here, there are five 4.0's who are going to med school or law school. Drifting is one thing...lots of people do it, because they know not how to proceed in life. It's the near-deliberate insipidity and/or cruelty which bothers me. It's just not necessary."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (22:22)", "body": "Totally, Kaff...some of these callers really ask for it. They know what she's gonna say, so why do they do it anyway?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (08:43)", "body": "Should I consider than myself happy not to know this Dr. Laura Hope to keep this view under good regulation"}, {"response": 56, "author": "jane", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (09:19)", "body": "I don't remember where this thread started, but so many women I know are great. We take care of each other, and the age of E-mail has made it even easier to exchange quick messages of help and support when needed on both a professional and personal level. Men can be great, too, but I don't in general depend on them for the kind of commiseration about balance of priorities (work and family), career issues, etc. I think being in late teens/early twenties is hard for men and women, and take heart, Kali, a lot of stuff gets straightened out with time and learning. Then there are other interesting issues to work on. I am not sure what my \"inspirational message of the day\" is apropos of, but that's one beauty of this place."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (17:06)", "body": "re: 47, 48; Bravo Katy and Johanne re: 20, 42, 52; Kali, in your earlier post I thought you were saying all young women are stupid and/or insane; this surprised me coming from a young woman who seems both intelligent and sane, I'm glad I misunderstood you. I don't agree with the many but I've certainly come across some breathtaking examples of destructive behaviour in women, many of them young. As my upbringing was fairly sheltered, most such encounters have occured while I was working, mostly in emergency receiving or in forensics. It's work experience that leads me to say that (young) men can be just as destructive as (young) women; in fact, looking at physical damage, usually more so. Although there will always be a few individuals in whom the problem is innate, I agree with those who think that a great deal of the problem arises from (sub) cultural/socialisation issues. On the whole (and I dislike generalisations, but cannot avoid them here), women tend to be more socially and self-destructive, men more phsically and other destructive, but there are so many overlaps one cannot predict any individual case. Things have improved greatly since the regency, but women do still have very limited range of choices in many societies today; many men also face a very limited and depressing future. Conversely, I have also seen people show great courage, fellowship and support for each other. Neither sex has a monopoly on the good, the bad nor the indifferent. I don't know whether it's nature or nurture, but most women do seem to be better than most men at expressing concern and supporting each other. I have wondered if that's why this group has hung together; many women's friendships are based on talking not doing, so it doesn't matter that we're not together physically. As an irrelevant aside; there is a large research interest in both placental physiology and genetics at my institution, I'm not directly involved in either, and could be out of date. It doesn't excuse an attempt to do it, but to the best of my understanding neither emotional nor intellectual stress has been shown to increase the risk of miscarriage. Placental diseases apart it takes fairly extreme physical stress to do so."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (20:01)", "body": "Honestly, I agree with K's point about female's insanity to a certain extent, but I am surrounded by great role models for our sex, that it is hard to think otherwise. Most of my girlfriends are: strong, determined, have goals, know what they want in their life, intelligent, confidant, mature, loving, and basically, have just as much balls in any man. In this point in my life, I have basically the upmost respect for my sex!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (20:07)", "body": "'I'm of the Dr. Laura Schlessinger school of psychology...women - especially young women - need to take control of themselves. So many of them don't. They do stupid, destructive, irrational things to themselves and others. ...And that's depressing.' All I can say to this is that if this is the way one chooses to view the world, women in particular, then no wonder it is depressing. I know that I can't control things others do, but I can control how I view it, whether or not it has any effect on me, and how I deal with it. I can even allow women all these 'stupid, destructive, irrational things' they do because they are just struggling or growing - as men do, too. I cannot even consider it a bad thing, and I certainly do not believe it to be something new to our era just because the challenges are different. We all do this life thing differently and at a difference pace. So it cannot be any great suprise that we are all at a difference place at any given time. I personally am not acquainted with these 'insane' women; but then, I would have never allowed myself to remain in a situation long enough to have developed such a view of them as to bring such a degree of dissatisfaction to myself. Furthur, I try to avoid even getting caught up in the worry, or judgement, of these people because just that, too, can keep me anchored in a mind-set that could blind me to the situations and opportunities I truly desire. For instance, any woman who is not 'insane', ' athetic', 'disgruntled', etc., the woman I want to know, will instinctively never open herself up to such a place of discontent. But, if this is the place I happen to be at the moment, she will pass me by. (She has passed this place already, if she has ever been there at all.) On the other hand, if have move forward to the same place she is seeking, she will find me. This is because it is absolutely true that we give off 'vibes' that other people sense and respond to. I know it to be tr e that I can change those 'vibes' by changing my attitude, then in turn, change the interaction with others. (Believe me. I learned this the hard way.) So Kali, I would just move on past the 'clinically insane' and the things they have done. All of your encounters with with these people you speak of are just a memory, anyway. How you carry it forward is your choice. Even their cruelty is your opportunity to make better of it - it just comes done to your outlook. Just like Jane views things, \"a lot of stuff gets straightened out with time and learning\" - this will be the truth for her because this is what she opens herself up to."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (20:10)", "body": "As far as Dr. Laura, I would be happy to know her. She has a well-balanced view of relationship issues, and, as a woman, understands the pitfalls of female existence. The bottom line in many cases is personal responsiblity and self-respect. I would suggest to anyone her book, Ten Stupid Things Women do to Mess up Their Lives . She gives excellent advice. She maintains that both men and women need to accord eachother the respect they deserve. As Kaff alluded to above, she is very quick t defend a woman in her significant other is being a jerk. She has common sense that no one can argue with. Once again, I am NOT bashing women. I am disappointed in some of their tendencies."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (20:14)", "body": "Sharon, I left that environment. I ran screaming. Believe me. The wicked irony of the situation was that I was duty bound by bonds of \"sisterhood\" to stay until I couldn't take it anymore. It was my job to deal with these people and purge them from our membership. Then I got alum status and left. Believe me, I am not so insensible as to intentionally place myself in bad situations like that."}, {"response": 62, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (21:50)", "body": "Anna : women tend to be more socially and self-destructive, men more phsically and other destructive, but there are so many overlaps one cannot predict any individual case May I return the favor, BRAVA, your whole comment is quite inspiring Rebecca : have just as much balls in any man. Can not believe the achievement/end of womanhood resides in becoming like a man. And nobody is obliged to be anything, like Sharon said you do your thing, they do their, and to each our own Karma, but Karma are entermingled and bad vibs atract bad vibs, thus increase tenfold contaminating like web, and it's no way to heal a sick world (did it make any sense?)"}, {"response": 63, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (21:59)", "body": "Kali and Becks and Sharon and all who have taken up arms on this subject. As the mother of a teen age girl - I see that teen girls can be cruel. I know when my daughter is on the receiving of cruelty and am too realistic to hope that she never dishes any out - although I know that she doesn't see it that way when she is the disser instead of the dissed. But, as the mother of a teenage girl and the aunt of several teenage boys and former teenage boys, I cannot believe that females at any age are more prone to insanity or cruelty than males. I will not expose my loved ones or acquaintances with examples from my memories. And, Kali, your story about the middle-age woman's miscarriage brings tears to my eyes - that is indeed cruelty! I do think young women still pay a higher price for failure to plan and general 'screwing up', and on that grounds, can identify with your concern for your friends who are not making solid plans."}, {"response": 64, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (01:24)", "body": "'Sharon, I left the environment..' Kali, what I was trying to say is, that you seem to have NOT left it. As long as you look back on it with a view of it being a terrible experience of no redeeming value and have bad feelings about it, you haven't left there. Now I do not mean for this to come across personal in anyway by using the word 'you'. I am just trying to make the point that ANY of us that approach a new axperience carrying old, crippling attitudes will encounter just another negative experience - over and over and over again. I you (we) walk out of the house in the morning with 'young women today are out of control', 'teenagers are cruel', 'many women I encounter don't know what they want', 'women are self-destructive' in you head, THAT is what you will see that day. And you will ALWAYS be disappointed because you mentally are caught up in what you are projecting as other peoples short comings. I don't think any of us has a right to be disappointed in the tendencies of others? Do we? What is your claim on their actions? Wh t is your responsibility? Did you fail to act? Is it yourself who you are disappointed in? Can you forgive yourself? Can you forgive them? Someone please explain to me how all of this lableing itself is helpful - particularly with respect to women? 'Many young women are out of control.' You hear often enough and young women could begin to buy into it. Certainly young men will. Is that what we want to happen? But how has it helped to bring the opposite into effect? What is the gratification or value in projecting tendencies of any kind on to any group of people? (And I don't want to hear 'that is just the way it is', because that is a c p out.)"}, {"response": 65, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (03:39)", "body": "Sharon, all of this ended very recently. I have witnessed some very bad things, and met some very bad people. I have learned form the experience. I can now spot an unstable personality from a mile away. I can deal with that. It's reality. My problem is with the fact that so much stuff like this happened in a rather short period of time, and should have been none of my business. The nature of my situation, however, made it my business. So I had to deal with it. The experience is always going to be there. I can't wipe it away. Could you? You're gonna be bruised for a little while after reality has punched you in the face. I don't leave the house everyday immediately judging everyone I meet nor making broad generalizations of every group I have contact with. Few people do. However, experience has allowed me to recognize and understand destructive behavior when I see it. This isn't \"gratification\" or \"rationalization.\" It's called learning how to be realistic. How can you function in the world if you don't understand what's out there? If young people \"buy in\" to a \"label,\" I think the problem lies in them and their parents (if such forceful and overarching labels actually do pervade the lives of young people - to be honest, high school and college-age people aren't thinking of labels or society or anything else, for that matter...they're too busy dealing with kindergarten politics). Blaming \"society\" isn't going to provide a solution, anyway - it just riles up the media and gives young people an excuse to be mediocre. And sympathy i n't going to rid mankind of its problems. We need to be pragmatic. Generalizations and labels don't spring from thin air...there's always something to it. In essence, if the tendency isn't there already, it ain't gonna happen no matter what people say. A bunch of sociologists didn't sit around a big table one day and say, \"hey, let's create teenage angst!\" The fact is, teenagers ARE cruel (for example). Some are just more so, more often, than others. Lots of the games kids play revolve around back-stabbing, gossip, and boyfriend/girlfriend-stealing. The only peopl who can really make a difference are the kids themselves, and the people who raise them. Kids and parents need to learn how to get beyond the stage. But the problem isn't going to go away. Society's gripes about kids, life, and the world in general are continually changing, but the general problems seem to be the same. I think it's just human nature. In other words, that's just the way it is. Sorry. It's true. Blame Pandora - or Eve. As for myself, I'm sick of dealing with other people's ridiculousness. I hope I'll never have to do it again. And on a related note, I'm sick of being the target of small, jealous little twits who envy my success. It's hard to be sisterly when a quarter of the women you meet look you up and down and then fortify themselves for territorial combat. I don't bite...and I believe that there is plenty of room for many pretty, successful gals out there. Oh...and I should say that none of this applies to any ne here. ;)"}, {"response": 66, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (13:18)", "body": "As for myself, I'm sick of dealing with other people's ridiculousness. I hope I'll never have to do it again. And on a related note, I'm sick of being the target of small, jealous little twits who envy my success. It's hard to be sisterly when a quarter of the women you meet look you up and down and then fortify themselves for territorial combat. I don't bite...and I believe that there is plenty of room for many pretty, successful gals out there. Oh...and I should say that none of this applies to any ne here. ;) That's my girl! I'm afraid, though, that you will always encounter the ridiculous, the envious and the petty out there. But you don't have to take them home."}, {"response": 67, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (16:44)", "body": "\" ... I'm sick of being the target of small, jealous little twits ... \" Kali - it's lonely at the top. This may seem like a weak comparison to you - but my fav teen - who is working hard to fulfill her life-long ambition to be a (gasp) cheerleader (??!!) - is encountering it everyday. It is part of the price you pay for striving to be outstanding and visible. So you got your honors diploma and your acceptance to law school. A few more months and you are out of there . AT law school you will find lots of girls as hard-working and determined and smart as you are, and you can all snicker together over the foolish, jealous little twits you left behind. One day, you can hire one of those twits as a clerical assistant! AT my first professional job, programming in a small town in the early 70's, one of the key-punch operators told me that her husband told her that he would never date a girl like me. This young woman was living in a trailer and working at one of the worst jobs ever invented. I resisted the urge to tell her not to worry - that I did not date married men - and was not interested in living in a trailer. I smiled sweetly and told her I was happy for her. Tolerate these poor little lambs, dear Kali. They will be eating your dust in the very near future."}, {"response": 68, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (17:24)", "body": "Some of us might be living in trailer and be clerical assistant, obtuseness and simplicity are not necessarely the epithets of a low social standing..."}, {"response": 69, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (17:28)", "body": "'That's my girl! I'm afraid, though, that you will always encounter the ridiculous, the envious and the petty out there. But you don't have to take them home.' Okay, Kali, but Marietta here is a little closer to place I am coming from. if tendency isn't there already, it ain't gonna happen no matter what people say This is on one point that we should just agree to disagree. Stronger wills and opinions will always influence a weaker. I don't leave the house everyday immediately judging everyone I meet nor making broad generalizations of every group I have contact with. Few people do Now, if this were true, we would never hear words like 'many young women today are out of control', teenagers ARE cruel', 'black people are less intelligent', 'Native Americans are drunks', etc. Every single bit of this begins at the individual level. It is a reflection of HOW individuals have A) chosen to see the reality and B) function/react/not react in the world. And some of these kind of realities have come about, I believe, out of pragmatism - 'I chose to see this as the way it is, here is nothing I can or will do about it, and I will communicate this experience to others who share this opinion'. And that 'sympathy isn't going to rid mankind of its problems', well it is a great place to start for mankind, but in truth it DOES rid each US, individually, of our problems, just as compassion, kindness and love - simply because when we can view any situation in these terms, it is not such a problem in that you come into it, dwell in it, and come away from it with peace of mind. Let me share a game we play here with our kids. When the first played in in college it was called Attutude Check, I modified it to Happy Smilely Heart when the first one went to kindergarten, and after a tragedy early this year it is now called Count The Blessings. The object of course is a change of attutude, then with your new, happy, smiley heart, find something good - being sorry, something you did right, a new idea, a new 'tool', a solution, something different to do tomorrow, etc. It is easy to b a looser at this - you just keep the same attitude, continue to dread a situation, continue to come home upset, allow someone to get to you. One of our first experiences was This Kid Is Mean to Me, and we've played this one a lot . This runs relatively close to our Teenagers Are Cruel theme. Kid comes home, \"this kid is mean to me\". Okay what's going on..., how the kid hurt you, how you may have hurt the kid too, how would you have liked for things to have happened, let's think of the kid is NOT mean - what he does & says, pretend you are the kid and what do you think he was thinking, feeling, etc. At this point the kid at least no longer sees another Mean Kid, but someone he or she is willing to work with or around. We also focus on all the other things that happened during the day to cause happy feelings to put 'the incident' into perspective. The steps an events from game to game may change, but each day you have to go to school thinking the KID IS NOT MEAN - he had a bad day, he just seems to be envious, he just wants attention, he has problems at home or school, maybe parents don't care abou him. So we can then either do things to try to be a friend, or keep a distance but help him out if he needs it (called the 'reach out' opportunities), understand he just doesn't know how to properly deal with or act out his pain and avoid him for a while. All you have to do to be a winner is to not carry bad feelings in you heart to anyone that has acted in a mean way to you. Think in you mind that he deserves pitty and open your heart to his good things. Some times they make friends, sometimes not, but they surely do not worry any longer about being bullied or htey no longer get their feelings hurt over it. It is against the rules to say 'he is mean'. One of the reasons is that since we can never really know what is in the other kid's mind and heart the words may cause him more pain or just cause him to act more mean. He may be a weak kind of person and come to believe bad things about himself just because other people say them, and we never want to cause people to feel this way. And if anyone says to you 'he is mean', you get to be a grande champion if you can get just one other kid to stop saying it and to have an understanding heart toward him. These kids can't solve the problems of mankind, but are most certainly capable of eradicating the on s THEY face (and make a differnce on the playground;-)). And most importantly, they face the ones they have not yet encountered with equanimity. (LOL, you know, Kali, I can't even remember the which point I was addressing, so this one may be off the mark.) I just think that any individual who can be a winner at this game; then at the individual level, 'lables' -which arise initially from personal encounters - are not put on the people we deal with every day. The more pervasive this practice of 'being a winner' is, the mor"}, {"response": 70, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (17:36)", "body": "Johanne: I am so ashamed. please forgive me. I really do not look down on trailers or clerical workers. Clerical workers work harder than the most of us and get less credit (or pay) for it. I was a little carried away by Kali's complaints and the memory of a young woman trying to put me down by telling me her husband would not date me. I rather hope her husband did not date anyone - but that was a long time ago. please forgive me."}, {"response": 71, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (18:08)", "body": "Sharon -- what a marvelous teaching game you have w/ your children. These attitudes will affect society, one person at a time. Whenever I reflect on the many grudges I carry around, I try to pretend that they are bonfires that I haven't managed to extinguish fully. So I visualize the \"fire\" (that is, the incident that hurt my feelings) and me pouring water, sand, etc. over it. Now, you have given me another approach. Thank you."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (18:53)", "body": "I understand where you were coming from with that one, Katy. It's the twitiness which presents the problem, not the fact that someone is \"lower\" than you...;) I know that neither of us are really snobs. But seriously, I don't get kicks off of gossiping about how lame everyone else is in my life. When I am presented with a pathetic situation, I am disappointed, but that's all. As far as people who have directly slighted me, after awhile, I rarely think about each individual incident, but the sum of al incidences build up. And when something similar happens again, you start to think, \"what the heck? What's wrong with these people?\" THis is not a subject upon which I ruminate day after day. In fact, this thread is the first time I've really openly discussed it. I think you're right, Sharon...we're going to have to agree to disagree. It's hard to think of life in terms of sweet games when you've been around people who've literally tried to kill eachother. My brother always says, \"I look at life dichotomously - I am at once a terribly jaded cynic and a faithful optimist. I give everyone a chance to prove me wrong!\" My variation is slightly more positive, as I try to approach each new person with a fresh heart."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (19:35)", "body": "Oh, and BTW, Sharon...when you quoted me, you clipped my personal and parental responsibility clauses...I DO agree that each person must do his or her own part to try to make the world a better place...MY point is that this is the ONLY way to effect any change, as buzzwords and catchphrases directed at the bad world in general take us to great lengths on the hamster wheel, but nowhere in reality. In much the same way, I think that that generalizations (those with at least some logical merit) are useful o ly to the individual who has complied enough experience to craft them. They are a tool to help the individual navigate through life. Oh, and Mom (Myretta), when i said \"ridiculousness,\" I meant criminal, psycho acts. I have a little more patience for pettiness! ;)"}, {"response": 74, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (02:51)", "body": "A little off the subject, but awhile back this thread was discussing gender differences, and I just have to share a funny story about that. A few months, my girlfriend and I went to see How to Make an American Quilt. The woman behind us had somehow managed to drag a male to the show, and he was doing pretty well until the scene where Winona Ryder's character's fiance shows up unexpectedly (they had made an agreement that he would leave her alone for the summer to decide whether she was really ready to get married). All of the women in the crowd were outraged that he had reneged on their deal and was crowding her. Her fiance, on the other hand, couldn't understand why she wasn't just overjoyed to see him. Later that same day, they are in WR's grandmother's kitchen eating dinner, and the grandmother cheerfully asks the fiance, \"So, are you spending the night?\" Before the fiance could answer, my friend and I heard the guy behind us in the theater snort disgustedly and say, \"Don't look like it!\" We laughed so hard we cried, and we started up again about every ten minutes throughout the evening. Here are all the women upset because the fiance is pressuring WR and all this guy can think about is that the fiance won't be getting any that night. I've yet to see a better example of why men and women have trouble communicating."}, {"response": 75, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "It's hard to think of life in terms of sweet games when you've been around people who've literally tried to kill eachother. Yes, Kali, it IS hard - It was hard for me, anyway, to be a \"winner\" of the sweet game in my life's exeriences of emotional, physical, & sexual abuse; encounters with others (who behaved just like those you have known) - some of whom have even who lashed out at me in their own pain; working sucessfully in large, professional, male-dominant firms and all that comes with it; near-mugging/stabbing on the streets of New York; becoming the second parent to my young sisters small children after the death of my rother-in-law; on and on, and it ain't even over. It is even harder to stay a winner because some things endured are harder to continually see with peace of mind - they sometimes will do the 'crashing back' thing and you have to start the game over. But I have found that the more you \"win\" the easier it seems to be able to do. And THAT is a happy thought, indeed! Best wishes."}, {"response": 76, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (13:10)", "body": "Kathleen! That is another of our games - The Burning Bowl! I didn't originate it - I saw it done in a new years eve service. But you write down your gripes, worries, anger, etc. on a paper and burn it in a bowl. The kids just want to torch the name of any kid that pissed them off, but we try to take it a little further than that. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 105, "subject": "Did Darcy Ever Intend To Marry Sick Cousin Anne?", "response_count": 53, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (15:20)", "body": "OK, I'll go first! I personally do not think that Darcy would have married Anne. Perhaps he never bothered to contradict his aunt (perish the thought of a mere mortal trying to contradict the She-Beast), but he may have wanted to avoid a fight until he was already engaged to someone else. I have always assumed that Darcy and his cousin tried to humor her Ladyship as much as possible, just nodding and mumbling uh huh without actually trying to discuss anything of importance. Darcy could not -- would not -- marry w/o love, and there do not seem to be any symptoms of love for his sickly cousin. Besides, would she even be able to provide him with an heir? I vote no, not even if Elizabeth never accepts him."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (15:20)", "body": "Oh, I'm sure that Darcy never had any intention of marrying his cousin, Lizzy or no Lizzy. We know that he was a strong man who could not be bullied. Lady C just thought she was God."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (16:21)", "body": "I don't think he was interested in getting married to anyone until he met Elizabeth."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (16:22)", "body": "I agree Darcy would never have married Anne, whether he ever married Lizzie or not - or even if he'd never met Lizzie. See my Part 5 of Young Fitz: I've always thought it was mainly Lady C's idea and even Darcy's mother only sort of agreed to avoid a long argument! The \"dearest wish\" was all on Lady C's part - after all, who else would want sickly Ann who never says anything. BTW, did everybody else notice that Anne had no spoken lines in the adaptation. Were they being cheap, not wanting to pay a higher salary? Just kidding!!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (16:35)", "body": "Inko,I think she smiled once during the palor scene at Rosings. When L.C was saying how much Mr. Darcy and the Col.Fitzwilliam loved rosings. She cracked a smile without wiping her nose."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (16:47)", "body": "Response #5 Anne de Bourgh smiled once and that should be a \"R\" for Rosings."}, {"response": 7, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (18:48)", "body": "Yea, you notice that the \"She-Beast\" did not go staight to Darcy when she got wind of the rumor about Elizabeth. She went to Elizabeth first. If there was an \"understanding\" with Darcy, you think she could have gone to Darcy, not Elizabeth. So I wonder how Lady C. ever approached the matter with him, if she ever did. But Kathleen, I do think he would have married without love to someone with the right connections. At least before out dear Lizzy came upon the scene."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (19:54)", "body": "] I do think he would have married without love to someone with the right connections. I can see that, but she would also have had to be 'fit' to carry out the duties and meet the responsiblities that would the lady of Pemberly would have. Anne is so sickly one must wonder if she could safely bear the 'hear and a spare' needed, supervise the household and advise the tenants families. Furthermore, so far as we can tell she doesn't have the wit or social skills needed either."}, {"response": 9, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "Anna: You are right about her being too sickly to be a decent mistress over Pemberly. (To ill to even learn to play a damn piano?) But the intention of the match was to combine the two estates."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Lilian", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "Definately not! Darcy would never have married his cousin. He would have had as much chance with Miss Bingley. I think Darcy was looking for a \"fresh\" female and thankfully... he found her."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Karen", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (21:53)", "body": "I agree with all of you; Darcy would not have married Anne. Also since he was a man of integrity, I do not think he would have married unless he found someone like Lizzy. He had women running after him all of the time. Lizzy was the first woman he had to chase. If a woman like Lizzy had not shown up, Darcy would have married late and if he compromise on character, his wife would be similar to Ms. Bingley or Fanny Dashwood. Needless to say, Dary would become a pompous nightmare. Oh what a terrible th ught. Thank God for the happy ending with Lizzy."}, {"response": 12, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (22:49)", "body": "I think Inko had the whole arrangement neatly summarized - it was Lady C's arrangement solely - no one could have set her straight about that without being very, very rude - since she never listened to anyone and 'brooked no disappointment'. The point is moot whether Darcy tried to make his dis-inclination for his cousin clear to Lady C and Miss. It would have all fallen on deaf ears."}, {"response": 13, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "NEVER! He would have been better off with Mr. Hurst!!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (12:05)", "body": "LOL, Amy!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (14:29)", "body": "oh my...;-)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:47)", "body": "Darcy was looking for someone with who was equally stationed in life...\"Could you expect me to rejoice in the inferiority of your connections? To congratulate myself on the hope of relations whose condition in life is so decidedly below my own?\" I think Darcy would not \"want\" to marry Anne and if someone else who had the same standing in society came along..he would have considered the marriage much like a contract...to carry on the family name, etc. If no one else came along...would he have considered Anne??? Maybe...and here's a thought..was Anne sickly because she was really sick..or was it because her mother was Lady Catherine?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (17:16)", "body": "LOL, Linda! But I kinda thought same, along the lines that if no one better connected came along... He may not have committed to an engagement any time soon, but it could have been in the back of his mind that he always had his cousin to fall back on - at least she's got the Big Bucks. She certainly wasn't going anywhere. And there is alot to be said for a bag over the head."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (17:28)", "body": "What a twisted way to think.Besides,Anne didn't have to marry anyone. Everything was in her favor,too.They had choices."}, {"response": 19, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (18:02)", "body": "Donna: Seriously, the choices Anne would have had are the ones her mother made for her. Back then, was not a woman's worth measured by the marriage she made? With her mother's expectation of a match for her already made, she did not have to exert herself to find a husband. A single woman's life had it's limitations, even for a wealthy single woman. She may not have even cared whether or not she ever married, but I bet Lady Catherine did. And I bet once Darcy was out of reach, Lady C. would have atte pted to arrange another marriage for her. Lady Catherine cared a great deal about the regard \"of the world\"."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "This just sounded like our friend Mikeys way of thinking to me.He said Lizzie was after Mr. Darcy's money and after she(Lizzie) saw Pemberely she changed her mind. Oh,I am sure if Lady Catherine demanded Anne to marry someone she would have. I don't think she had enough backbone to disagree,but she still had other ways around that.Someone suggested that Anne was pretending to be sick as a form of rebellion. I don't know if Lady Catherine could cut her off from her inheritance though, I am sure she would d ngle that over her head. I guess it would depend how it was \"legally written\" by her father.If that was the case she would agree to Lady Catherine demands."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "Sharon said: He always had his cousin to fall back on LOL! I picture Anne completely squashed as he falls back on her!! Horrible picture, but the bag over the head is a very good idea, especially if he falls forward over her and has to see her!!!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (23:35)", "body": "I think it possible that Anne's illness was a reaction to Lady C. I don't know whether it was conscious or not--sort of a Saphie v. Edina thing from Ab Fab. With such a strong and domineering mother, Anne had little choice but to be weak and meek. Certainly if she had a backbone as a child, her mother would have amputated it long ago. I also think that Lady C. would never have allowed Anne to gain any accomplishments that she herself could not claim. If Anne ever expressed an interest in learning the pianoforte, or singing, or riding, or going away to school, I am certain Lady C. would not have allowed it and told her daughter that she is too weak for any such thing, that it was completely out of the question, and that she had never heard such a rediculous suggestion in all her life, what was she thinking! Whatever spirit Anne may have had, it could not have lasted long with Lady C. in the house."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (01:13)", "body": "Oh dear! I feel positively sorry for Anne now..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (02:30)", "body": "] was Anne sickly because she was really sick..or was it because her mother was Lady Catherine? And were her skills in conversation nonexistent because Lady Catherine never allowed anyone but herself to speak? When did the poor pitiful thing ever have an opportunity to practice them?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (08:14)", "body": "When she did try to converse she probably was told to she was wrong."}, {"response": 26, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (11:22)", "body": "But look at Lizzie. Here's someone who manages to talk around Lady Catherine due to sheer chutzpah. Or would Anne have been so beaten down growing up that she never could have developed this facility?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (12:39)", "body": "Amy W.: I don't know. Anne is one of the best puzzles we have in this book - we have so few clues. But probably the best place to start is at present, then work our way backwards. She is an adult, though age undetermined. She is thin and small, physically the opposite of her mother. She had weak features and probaly ugly ('Lady Catherine was a tall, large woman, with strong features, which might once have been handsome.' ...'There was neither in face nor form any likeness between the ladies.'). she appears sickly and cross. She has some arrogance or is conscientious about her status is she goes to the Collins' to visit and doesn't usually even go inside. Elizabeth thinks she is rude. She spoke little except in a low voice to Mrs Jenkinson, whose sole purpose in like was to tend to her. She didn't eat much, which triggered the solicitude of Mrs. J. It is her mother that uses her health to account for the lack of accomplishments. This does nothing toward encouraging her to do anything about it. It is almost like the She-Beast thinks, \"My kid's a looser and so be it\". When Lady Catherine looks at her child what does she see? Is she disappointed?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (12:54)", "body": "Lady C is so accomplished at one thing -- deluding herself -- she likely sees in Anne whatever she wishes to see."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (12:56)", "body": "I wonder very much at the comment that Lady C makes to Lizzy; ''Daughters are never of so much consequence to a father.'' It seems she is speaking of personal experience; was it her own experience as a daughter? Or perhaps her experience with her late husband, who may have been waiting for the male heir who never arrived. His treatment of Anne, and of Lady C because of only having a female child, is another missing piece of this puzzle. We assume that she was always this way, but certainly could have ecome the present day Lady C because of experiences within her marriage. I can vividly see her assuming an attitude of superiority to cover feelings of inferiority from her failure to produce a male heir."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "It is almost like the She-Beast thinks, \"My kid's a looser and so be it\". When Lady Catherine looks at her child what does she see? Is she disappointed? Most definitely--here's a woman who's always had the \"best\" of everything, and her daughter isn't the \"best\" in any respect: not accomplished, nor witty, nor even attractive. Perhaps that's another reason why Lady C is so hellbent on Darcy for a nephew--he is intelligent, handsome--in short, the \"best of the best.\" Lady C would be able to live vicariously through Darcy and her grandchildren, and would probably try to forget all about Anne. Of course, Lady C's psychology is another topic, but I can see her reacting this way, and I bet Anne can see that as well, which would only compound any inferiority complex, sickliness, or crossness in her manner."}, {"response": 31, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (15:49)", "body": "Mari: '... could have become the present day Lady C because of experiences within her marriage.' True, true. Lizzy thinks that Lady Catherine \"might once have been handsome.\" Ugly does work its way from the inside out. Maybe like her apprearance, she deteriorated into the way she is."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "Amy2 and Sharon - LOL. Sharon, I also loved your analysis of Lady C. The erosion of the person from the inside out is very true of people."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (12:14)", "body": "I believe that Darcy would have married eventually, in order to fulfill his responsibilities as the heir of Pemberly; but he was would not have married Anne because of the inevitably increased exposure to Lady C! If it got to the point where he felt he could no longer wait, I'm sure he would have acted on his logic, and chosen someone who had either fewer outside influences, so that her main attention would be given to Pemberly (and Georgiana), or had connections that would vastly enchance the social sta ding of the presumed children; to do otherwise would have been unthinkable to the Darcy who had never met Lizzy."}, {"response": 34, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (15:30)", "body": "Hey, I don't know that Darcy's wish to avoid Lady Catherine would have had anything to do with not wanting to marry Anne. Darcy went to visit his aunt every year and stayed several weeks. I don't get to visit my best friends for that long. The time that I can recall that he may have wished her elsewhere was when she was kinda rude about Lizzy using Mrs. Jenkinsons piano, and he was 'embarassed', or somthing. He may not have been Chatty with Cathy, but he may very well have had respect for her, and con urred with many of her views. Even after he was married, he was the one that sought a reconciliation with her."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (15:39)", "body": "But Sharon--it was \"by Elizabeth's persuasion he was prevailed on to overlook the offense and seek a reconciliation\" so I doubt he would have done so on his own!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "Even after he was married, he was the one that sought a reconciliation with her. Lizzy persuaded Darcy to heal the breach with Lady Catherine."}, {"response": 37, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "Sure, Elizabeth persuaded him. But why would SHE care? ..unless she saw that her husband felt bad about the breach."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (15:58)", "body": "She probably wanted to show Lady C. that the shades of Pemberley were not polluted after all!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (16:32)", "body": "Mari..Sharon...I think that by the time Darcy married Anne...Lady Catherine would have been in old age. I believe that Annes illness was the result of Lady Catherine's control of her entire life. Look how quickly she took over Charlottes? Imagine having such a controlling mother for all those years...the only thing Anne could control was her own body..her health...it was an escape to get out of all Lady Catherine expected of her..and yes, I think Lady Catherine welcomed the escape of her illness becaus she was such a disappointment to her. Darcy would have only married her as a last resort, but remember to have a son to carry on not only the family tradition but the family name was very important to them. Because Darcy was such a \"staunch\" personality, it would be hard for him to accept just any woman...until a certain lady got under his skin...and he couldn't fight it any longer. I don't think he ever would have considered Ms. Bingley...but since Anne was part of a family agreement...he may have con idered it...if he had too."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (23:20)", "body": "To quote Charlotte Lucas \"I am not a romantic\" in the matter of Darcy's marrying had he not met Lizzy. I do believe he would have married someone of his own rank who could have provided and heir and a spare - and then (as was the custom of men of his period and station) would have found a very lively, elegant mistress \"in town\". Intregrity or not."}, {"response": 41, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (23:30)", "body": "Claudia, and heir & a spare. I love it!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (23:55)", "body": "Ladies, please do not be so anxious to marry Darcy off to some horse-faced deb merely because she has a position in society. The Darcy of my dreams (and I have them frequently) is a man of passion and integrity who would never be able to bed a woman for the sole reason of producing an heir. He would have to be able to respect, esteem, and desire his wife. Otherwise, why is he still available at the age of 27? He clearly had high standards or he would have married duck-face and done the dreadful deed n cessary to produce an heir. I prefer to think that he would have waited (immortal and ever-youthful) until I was in my prime (around 1976). =)"}, {"response": 43, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (00:55)", "body": "Bravo Margaret"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Saman", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (17:05)", "body": "I agree with you Margaret - the creative writers at FoF have a different idea - they see Darcy marrying Caroline Bingley (shades of Four Weddings...) to satisfy the requirement of producing an heir to Pemberley."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (18:43)", "body": "Marrying Caroline Bingley?(English Accent) God forbid! How would she satisfy the requirements better then Elizabeth???"}, {"response": 46, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (18:55)", "body": "NO,no,no. Darcy would never have married Caroline. He was 'indifferent' to her, and furthur, he did not view the Bingley's as high as himself socially. He liked her brother and they were not so far beneith him that they were unacceptable acquaintances. But if Darcy were to look for a bride for convenience sake, he would have made an equal match, not ally his ancient, noble family with the House of Bingley."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:23)", "body": "But, Sharon, Darcy wanted his sister to marry Bingley. Surely he wouldn't have fobbed her off on someone he regarded as inferior. But I agree that he would never have married Caroline. She drove him crazy even as a sometime companion. He'd never have shackled himself permanently!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:42)", "body": "Maybe our FoF cousins like having Darcy in an uncomfortable unhappy marriage. The situation makes adultery stories a lot more palatable."}, {"response": 49, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (23:00)", "body": "I believe FoF had Darcy, nursing a broken heart and resigned to disappointment, ready to propose to Miss Bingley when Elizabeth showed up at Pemberly. Once he sees E again, hopes of winning her revives and the proposal never takes place. But I do not believe that Darcy could possibly have made such a decision so soon after his first proposal to E. Maybe five years later but not three months later."}, {"response": 50, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "'But, Sharon, Darcy wanted his sister to marry Bingley.' And she is a younger female. Though Bingley's social status may not be as elevated, he did have a fortune in excess of hers."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (08:01)", "body": "I really don't think Mr. Darcy wanted his sister to marry Bingley. It was Miss Bingley hoping that her brother would marry Georgiana."}, {"response": 52, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (08:12)", "body": "'FoF had Darcy, nursing a broken heart and resigned to disappointment, ready to propose to Miss Bingley' Like that would happen. Forget FOF! ;-)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Oct 24, 2000 (08:01)", "body": "austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 106, "subject": "Spring cleaning", "response_count": 42, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (23:12)", "body": "Topic 141, Go Pack, messages moved to Ramble. Topic killed Topic 131, New calendar, messages moved to #1, Conference business. On deck to be killed."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (05:22)", "body": "there's nothing I like better than a nice clean spring!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (06:55)", "body": "Do you need any more hands, Amy?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (07:51)", "body": "Thanks, Myretta. Johanne is coming up with a plan, which will be a revision of the suggestions made by Joan and Kaf in the austentest conference. Right now I am just making sure I do the moving right so I can show Johanne how to do it. We'll probably do a bunch of pruning initially, then get somebody to volunteer for regular topic maintenance. Were you around at all when Joan and I were chatting about bringing back the old board format for informal discussion and topic generation. Joan, can you put it in words? You have a better handle on how it might work than I do."}, {"response": 5, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (08:04)", "body": "Were you around at all when Joan and I were chatting about bringing back the old board format for informal discussion and topic generation. I missed that discussion and would like to hear the details."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (01:22)", "body": "Well Amy, I've done the reading at test Austen and now I'm terrified that I won't have time to read it all before it eventually expires... No, I'll be serious. I understand that something must be done - but *if* we can archive most of it I think some newcomer's agree with me. It get's you more updated and familiar with all the goings on here, if you can catch up on old discussions. I've been around since September, and still have not been able to read all of it."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (12:03)", "body": "Spring cleaning sounds very hygienic but might I put in a plea to keep a few topics small so that my antiquated system can continue to lift them? I can no longer get into topic 59 and some of the larger ones with images. I seem to have rather limited access and now foresee the day that I will be relegated to posting under the very unpopular topic of watch fobs."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (16:29)", "body": "]a few topics small so that my antiquated system can continue to lift them? Elaine, does your system make you look at 'all' all the time? If you use 'new' or since/-1 your sysem should only be trying to download the posts you haven't seen or the posts in the last day respectively. If you've been away for a while or struck by old-is-new, since/-1 works well; the full address is; http://208.199.212.10/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/all/since/-1 The other thing I often do is opt not to download the images since I have a slow modem at home; mostly I don't miss them, although occaisionally curiosity gets the better of me."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (17:04)", "body": "Linda - I just downloaded the Prodigy internet software. I haven't signed up yet, but the documentation did say that I could continue to use my Netscape browser with it, so that would be my recommendation - download Netscape and use that instead."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (17:09)", "body": "Okay - I've never had \"old is new\" but I do have a phenomenum that is pretty darn annoying! Often, when I click on a topic near the end of the list, I get \"Conference Business\" instead! So I clicked on \"Spring Cleaning\", got \"Conference Business\" instead, saw Linda's note about Prodigy, responded to it - and the response showed up in \"Spring Cleaning\"!!! GRRRrrrrr!!!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (00:40)", "body": "Amy: Were you around at all when Joan and I were chatting about bringing back the old board format for informal discussion and topic generation. Joan, can you put it in words? You have a better handle on how it might work than I do. It's hard to think about all of the ramifications that come up in a conversation without the questions being asked to generate them, but the basic notion was to try putting up a \"Matt's Script\" type of format as the \"entry area\" here, and use it more or less as the \"social hall\" where conversations could spiral off in all directions as they used to at Bluemarble and we could respond to specific postings, and see the html in the text entry window, and people could get to know one another more informally an conversationally than is possible in the Yapp format in which you have to wait till you get to the end of the topic before you are \"allowed\" to say anything - which feels more like a series of speeches than a conversaation. And then, as particular threads pick up steam and start indenting across the main page to the right, those entire threads could be moved off into a new topic in the Austen conf and continued there, instead of just beeing removed as they formerly had to be at Bluemarble, and this would make room for more new stuff to generate. Links to where the spun off topics got posted could be there. This way, new people would have a very informal and user-friendly area in which to start out and meet people, and could be directed to other particular items of interest from there - links to other related sites, to other conferences and/or topics at the Spring, to our archives of no-longer-active-but-still-of-interest conversations, etc. etc. etc. Hopefully, spinning off threads into the conference(s) would keep the volume low enough so that the scripts would not crash and burn, and then discussions would be automatically archived and nobody would have to mail them out to newcomers, and people could be \"absent\" for a few days and not have everything that had been said while they were gone no longer there when they returned..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (00:41)", "body": "(anyone else who was there and remembers something else that was said about this, please do add onto this...)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:09)", "body": "No, I can't think of anything to add, Joan, and it is beginning to seem like a better adn better diea all the time."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:15)", "body": "well, then, go to it girl! ;-)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:18)", "body": "well, then, go to it girl! ;-)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:21)", "body": "!!! :-("}, {"response": 17, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:27)", "body": "!!! :-("}, {"response": 18, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:30)", "body": "now wait just a minute!!! I did not post either of those second posts! I am extremely put out! :-("}, {"response": 19, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (04:08)", "body": "there's been hints of a new ricochet bug..."}, {"response": 20, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (06:58)", "body": "And then, as particular threads pick up steam and start indenting across the main page to the right, those entire threads could be moved off into a new topic in the Austen conf and continued there, This is an appealing idea, but I fear that it would really increase the administrative work load for Amy and the Hosts (but probably especially for Amy). Is this not so?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (07:23)", "body": "Well, maybe, but at least now there are people to sing \"doo op doo op!\""}, {"response": 22, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (08:32)", "body": "]Well, maybe, but at least now there are people to sing \"doo op doo op!\" True, true. Tone Deaf but Willing."}, {"response": 23, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "\" I fear that it would really increase the administrative work load for Amy and the Hosts \" I don't think it would be significantly more work that it used to be to remove and archive all of them - would it Amy? Besides, I'll bet that HC could probably figure out an AWK that could do it automatically. :-)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (08:50)", "body": "I do see some technical problems (though not necessarily insurmountable ones) with trying to \"Yapp-ify\" non-Yapp bulletin board postings. Here's an example of what a posting (from topic 101) looks like in a raw Yapp file: ,R0000 ,U11,churchh ,AThe Mysterious H.C. ,D32E01C3B ,T http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/emmaoldm.html ,E Here the \",R\" line indicates the status of the message (scribbled messages get \",R0003\"), the \",U\" line shows the posting user, the \",A\" line indicates the \"pseudonym\" used, and \",D\" encodes the time (probably Unix time format -- no. of seconds since Jan 1 1970 -- in hexadecimal, or base 16). \",T\" and \",E\" appear to be start and end of message markers...."}, {"response": 25, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (09:01)", "body": "I could devise a filter program (more probably Perl than Awk) that would austomate a lot of the format translation stuff, but deciding what topic to archive a posting under would be an \"executive decision\" that couldn't be automated. If we're going to do this, we could bring back the whole archives of the old board (Terry has plenty of disk space, right? ).... Anyone remember my old proposal, from just before the old board crashed the second time?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (09:21)", "body": "That's right. I remember. Sounds like a big job all the way around. Thanks for the willingness to tackle, it Henry. Let's talk more first. I still can't exactly picture it."}, {"response": 27, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "I have tons of disk space on access.spring.com Henry, if you need an archival area."}, {"response": 28, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "Maybe the picture would look something like this? --"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (18:40)", "body": "Okay, these kinds of representations help me. Let me let it soak in. One thing. If the center of the whatever it is, is the selection process, what is the \"thing?\" It is not the board. Love the baby P&P2BB new. It should have little bitty place on my teeny site."}, {"response": 30, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (19:31)", "body": "The classification process would be the most human-intensive activity, but it wouldn't really be the \"center\" of the board... Remember, this second one is Joan's idea, not mine..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (15:23)", "body": "Hello all, Well this is it. As Amy wrote, it makes a lot of sense to proceed by steps. The long awaited archiving (idealy at Spring as graciously offered my our beloved Terry) will take place soon but first we have to get some particular problems solved. We have to decide what to archive : as the first step, some obvious topics which are not relevant anymore because time passed by, I believe, should be readily archived such as : Topic Title 13 Ranges-Forgotten 14 Forgotten not gone 35 A&E Classroom ... 37 Thanks-giving and other catas.... 65 On the first day of christmas... 98 Christmas gifts 102 Party Party Party... 104 Birthday Ball 110 Merry Hollidays to all In this possible list for archiving, any comments, approval or disapproval. I suggest a meeting in the Sollicitor's office on this subject say next Friday at 8 pm eastern time . Pray confirm or suggest any other wise. When we talked of archiving and spring cleaning at the beginning of the month, many topics were inactive then due to low traffic and a lot of us away for the hollidays. Things have definitely picked up since and most topics have been active in the past 7 days. So: Is there a time limit to a dead topic : if a topic is non-active for a certain time, how long should we allow until removing it. I suggest a period of 30 days. So, if a topic goes inactive during this given time, it could be removed to the archived site. Speaking of site, this archive site would probably be linked with a tag at the beginning of the opening page of the BB. BTW, due to the various pruning operations that has occured and will surely be done again (and I personnaly hope to a vast extent since so many topics possess the same basic subject) some renaming I believe will be in order as well. I'm finishing a list and will suggest it to you soon. This will undoubtebly open the door to other questions and am eager in your comments as we will share those decisions. This will be posted in the austentest conference as well."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (15:59)", "body": "Johanne, I'm awed by the amount of work and thought you must have given to this. Thanks for doing it, your suggestions look good too me."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "I thank Johanne as well, for doing this step and for agreeing to lead the cleaning team. For those who do not read the austentest conference, I should point out that Kaf and Joan did a lot of preliminary thinking about the sifting too."}, {"response": 34, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:22)", "body": "I will be happy to join the meeting and assist if I can. Am I wanted?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:28)", "body": "Myretta and all of you friends of this beloved BB are very welcomed and most invited to this little gatering, so Friday at 8 pm eastern in Sollicitor's. I am but your humble servant in making this BB more enjoyable ;)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (19:37)", "body": "Of course, Myretta. I should have kept you in the loop on this. We won't be doing anything drastic for a while, and will test how to move topics by copying first and all that."}, {"response": 37, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (19:42)", "body": "Thanks, Amy. I just realized I'll be in Maine this weekend and computerless. Please just email me or post what you'd like me to do. Or I'll catch you when I return (Sunday). I am, as always, glad to help."}, {"response": 38, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (12:10)", "body": "New tentative date for meeting : Monday at 10 pm easternUS in Sollicitor's, please confirm your presence here if possible"}, {"response": 39, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "Monday at 10 pm easternUS I'll be there."}, {"response": 40, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (19:45)", "body": "As of today, 24 January 1997, find the following topics which where inactive in the last 30 days : 8 3 Maurice (LauraM) 10 34 Col. Fitzwilliam (Cheryl) 12 10 Denny (mich) 13 4 Ranges- Forgotten (mich) 14 10 Forgotten? Not Gone (alfresco) 19 12 Does this work? (geekman) 20 9 Where we left off (Amy) 21 6 Signs you are seriously addicted to P&P2 (Zimei) 26 48 austen.com (terry) 27 32 Six Degrees of Colin Firth (Kaffeine) 28 7 Elizabeth and about herself accept propos (signatur) 31 17 Archives (was Darcy's appearance) (Amy) 32 10 TEP L.A. premiere pic with CF (Zimei) 33 53 incredibly dumb and stupid questions (for newbies) (terry) 35 1 A&E Classroom bright and early! (Ann) 37 24 Thanks-giving and other catastrophes (was P&P1) (Anna) 41 27 Dark Darcy & Lizzy (Zimei) 42 31 P&P 200 birthday! (ayelet) 46 5 Jane and Bingley (kendall) 49 6 Rules, Regulations and Videotape (Anna) 52 7 Topic 32 crashes my system! (Ann) 53 14 NetMeeting Q &A (Kaffeine) 54 15 Outer garments (Linda409) 55 21 Roger's pictures from Lyme (Amy) 57 11 'Mozart wigs' (baka) 62 23 Wickham: Unprincipled or Unfortunate? (Anna) 63 12 Creating a Jane Austen Newsgroup (geekman) 65 22 On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to me (fen) [although Kali left he brief post there today] 66 7 Darcy's \"nearest relations\" (Saman) 71 33 Virtual View: P&P 1 (Cheryl) 75 8 Just a thought (Donna) 77 11 This little matter of our addiction... (panache) 78 6 Serenades (Amy) 79 5 Solving disorientation in the Netherfield drawing room (Amy) 80 4 CF Quote 1000Acres/P&P (Ann) 81 8 Yapp tricks discovered (Amy) 85 20 The gallery upstairs (Amy) 86 4 Computing for Dummies - read a good book lately? (kendall) 89 7 ONE Question for Jane Austen (lisaC) 97 6 Dance music site (churchh) 99 22 Jane Austen's Fave Music (Becks) 102 25 Party rty - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! (geekman) 105 5 Sickly and Cross (Amy) Those could be archived, kept for our enjoyment or pruned with other similar topics. To be discussed during next Monday night's meeting. May we suggest a full review of the spring cleaning topic in austentest, here's the link for your convenience : http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/read/read/austentest/11"}, {"response": 41, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "one more try : http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/read/austentest/11"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (21:21)", "body": "Moved from topic 13, \"Ranges forgotten.\" __ Topic 13 of 170 [austen]: Ranges- Forgotten Response 5 of 8: Johanne (JohanneD) * Thu, Feb 6, 1997 (14:39) * 3 lines Took this one cause its was it didnt have a long list of messages : got the bug again the \"all is new\" kind : got a theory now : I press the auten conference button on the top of the buttons before the topic indicator at the very first beginning of the page. Ttell me if there's a way to make a topic as read without having to go through it till the end, so it wont show up again in the \"New\", dont want to go trough 16? messages some 300 long ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 13 of 170 [austen]: Ranges- Forgotten Response 6 of 8: Amy (Amy) * Thu, Feb 6, 1997 (16:41) * 3 lines Johanne, one way is to use /since/-1. Then go back later and clear up the other older threads gradually. Makes one see the need for the cleaning, no? Sorry we have still not done your training. I am still not completely comfortable with the process myself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 13 of 170 [austen]: Ranges- Forgotten Response 7 of 8: Myretta (mrobens) * Thu, Feb 6, 1997 (16:45) * 1 lines Johanne, I was thinking we might have some shell training when you come down for the weekend of the 22nd. Should we set this up? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 13 of 170 [austen]: Ranges- Forgotten Response 8 of 8: Johanne (JohanneD) * Fri, Feb 7, 1997 (00:39) * 3 lines Myretta, love the idea, was fantasizing (maybe a big word) about it. This is going to be great!!! When are your availabilities, during the week-end or before, this will be included in the when-to-come-done decision Thanks Amy, cleaning? my thoughts EXactLY!! Took me close to 4 hours last time, imagine now! Yeah, was'nt sure cleaning was still on, glad to know it is ;) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 107, "subject": "Writing a love story", "response_count": 48, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Adi", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (22:00)", "body": "the movie Jane Eyre with William Hurt finally got here (Israel), and the distributors came out with a special offer: tell us a great love story and win a trip to England! I really, really, really want to go to England (I want to go to Brighton...), but I'm afraid my creative writing skills are not so good - especially when comparing it to the great abilities some of you possess (Wendy, Katy, Cecily and more). Please, please help me to write the story... It could benefit everyone here, since we all love romance (I know it\ufffds a lame excuse). I would be forever indebted to you. The story should be about a victory of love (this is what Jane Eyre is all about, isn\ufffdt it?): love story that stood out against difficult tests, that succeeded even if everything and everybody was against it, that will make the reader to lose a heart beat!. It\ufffds only have to be one page. P.S: if I\ufffdll actually win the contest, I promise you, right here and now, that I\ufffdll share my prize (a week in England for two people, including touring the castles in which Jane Eyre was filmed) with the wonderful sweet generous person (I know I\ufffdm not very good as a flatterer) that will help me win the trip!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "fen", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (22:07)", "body": "The only drawback I see, and it is a big one, is that one of our author-types here might not feel happy having your name given the credit for a story (s)he wrote. Not in terms of who gets the prize trip, but in terms of copyright authorship credit, in case this contest is actually a look for a possible upcoming scriptwriter offer by the movie company running it. It may be more ethical to have the real writer enter the contest in his/her name and then split the trip with you ..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Adi", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (22:29)", "body": "but in terms of copyright authorship credit, in case this contest is actually a look for a possible upcoming scriptwriter offer by the movie company running it. well, I don't think it's anything like that. they probably just want to sell the movie. I'm not even sure if they are planning to publish the winning story in the newspaper."}, {"response": 4, "author": "jane", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (23:13)", "body": "Adi, You start it! Then you can post it here bit by bit and get feedback. Good luck, Jane"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Adi", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (02:56)", "body": "this is the problem: I don't have any ideas. I can write a nice story if I really try, but I'm afraid I'm not that experienced when love is concerned. I'm just 20, and all the love in my life was always one-sided (i loved him or he loved me). there are a lot of romantic people here happily married, so I thought they could help me from thier own experience."}, {"response": 6, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (08:14)", "body": "I can't help in writing, for I'm not yet 12, but I can help you to transfer it to hebrew."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (08:21)", "body": "Ayelet are you really 11?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (12:26)", "body": "Okay the time is 1942, Sharon is 23 Marc is 25, both are in love and are being transported to war. They make a pact that when the war is over they will meet at a certain location on a certain date at a certain time. Sharon is a nurse with the red cross heading to Europe, Marc is on the front lines heading to Japan. along the way several characters interact and such. One never makes it to the desired location.... Run with it folks."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "Shades of an Affair to Remember, Roar?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (14:20)", "body": "Laura, you have a good premise, but don't forget the audience here...Adi is in Israel, and while our culture remembers WWII in terms of soldiers and battles, Israelis remember it in terms of the Holocaust and so this may not be the best setting for a love story. Then again it could be, but perhaps not necessarily betwen a Red Cross worker and a soldier... You could move the permise, Adi to the Seven Day War, or go back further in your own history to the Macabees..."}, {"response": 11, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (17:39)", "body": "Marc is Jewish. He specifically requested the European theater as his grandparents are (were) still alive in England at the beginning of the war. He is missing in action behind enemy lines in Europe, presumed captured. There is reason to fear that he has been sent to a concentration camp. Sharon, who is not Jewish, volunteered for the Red Cross inspections of the POW and concentration camps in hopes of finding Marc or finding our about Marc. Her parents still hear from her regularly, but she has not returned home since the end of the war."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:31)", "body": "I don't know if any of you saw the women who spent her years in a concentration camp,but she was on the AWards,last year and on Oprah. Her story of friendship a nd determination was remarkable, and in the end a wonderful love story to tell.Everything else said, she met her husband an American Jew fighting the war. Her story pertained to SList.She was such a brave and an wonderful person. I truely admire her strength. It still makes me cry when I think about of it. Donna"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "Donna, you're talking about Gerda Weiss, I think. I was so glad that she stuck to the podium and gave her speech at last year's Oscars in spite of the time-up signal. It was well worth hearing and the best acceptance speech of the evening. Wasn't her husband an American soldier who found her and other women somewhere in Czechoslovakia on a death march? A real, true love story, indeed."}, {"response": 14, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:33)", "body": "Amy, yes, I am, i hope you don't mind, I REALLY love P&P."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:39)", "body": "Of course, not, Ayelet. I just had to wonder. My 12 year old has only recently started reading for pleasure; I feared he never would. But he will not tackle anything very challenging. I am so glad you are with us. Let us know if we get too adult -- in any way."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:52)", "body": "Amy: Let us know if we get too adult -- in any way. No, no, we wouldn't want that to happen! Heaven forbid! But I don't think we are in too much danger. ;-)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:24)", "body": "Adulthood is highly overrated."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:28)", "body": "Amy: Let us know if we get too adult -- in any way. Cheryl: No, no, we wouldn't want that to happen! Heaven forbid! But I don't think we are in too much danger. ;-) would you believe too adolescent? ;-)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (06:54)", "body": "Amy, you mean he dosen't like to read? good heavens, what's the matter with him? I can't imagine my life without books! I'm trying to read P&P (a little every evening), but I fear that I don't know ALL the words JA uses, but my excuse is that I'm a beginner in English, becouse I live in Israel. my mother is a real JA fan, and through her I met JA and P&P, she watched P&P2 one afternoon, and, after you watch Lizzy refusing to Darcy's preposual (which was the scene I happend to see), you can't help falling in love with P&P, can you? Thanks for letting me stay, thanks a lot!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (08:46)", "body": "Maybe I should get him to correspond with you, Ayelet!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (15:13)", "body": "Ayelet, I must tell you that you remind me so much of some girls that visit my library. They seem to share your deligth in books and it is such fun to find them good ones to read. Amy, I often find that boys are a little less mature in their reading habits, but mostly, given the inspiring sort of surrounding *you* can't help but providing, he will sooner or later discover the fun of it. The trick migth be to introduce books but not give them any sort of dull homework association. For instance read aloud together and if he really enjoys the book, you suddenly have no time for several days to continue...be sure to leave the book where it can be found! Am I a children's librarian or not? Forgive my lecturing manner.It was kindly meant;=)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (18:51)", "body": "Good idea, Ann."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (19:45)", "body": "Amy, have you come across a book called 'Midnite' by Randolf Stow? It might appeal as a read aloud book to your older son (and your little guy might enjoy it too). Its funny, about a bushranger, and is often studied here in lower high school."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (19:49)", "body": "No, but I will look for it, Hil. Thanks."}, {"response": 25, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (22:29)", "body": "Hilary, can you think of a good book for me? I'll look for it, I seem to finish all the books (not including my father's philosophy books) at home, or the good ones in the library."}, {"response": 26, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (22:02)", "body": "Oh dear ! Adi, have you seen the winning stories? They asked for real stories, and they got lots, but the winning story is just AWFUL! have you read it? I was shocked when I read it yesterday! Oh well, nothing's perfect."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Adi", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (18:29)", "body": "yes Ayelet, I've read it and I'm astonished as you are!. I was absolutely certain they wanted a fictional story... It's a good thing I didn't waste my time trying to write that story after all. I had 2 major tests that week, so I didn't have time to write, and I was sorry to miss the opportunity to maybe, just maybe win something I really want. but I guess it's all for the best. I'm planning a trip to England next summer, so eventually I'll get there... and about the winning story: it was dreadful!, like a terrible soup opera, such an awful love story! I was amazed when the kibutznik said he took all her furniture: does he actually want people to know about it?! P.S: I've wanted to ask you that before - How come you have such a good English?. don't tell me you learned it at school, cause I know the English level in the 5th grade in Israel, and it's not so good, to say the least."}, {"response": 28, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "SHE IS A SMART KID!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (22:23)", "body": "How did I learn? I must confess, I was born in NY, we lived there for 3 years, and then moved to Israel, and almost never used English, so I forgot a lot of my English, but the internet helped me to work on it, and when I knew enough to read, I begun to read the books in English for begginers we had at home, really thin ones, and sort of gradually went on. One day my mother came with \"Little Women\", she told me she bought it for me, I was really astonished, but I begun to read, it took me long to f nish it (Three weeks!) but I did it, and I was proud of myself."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "Ayelet, it took me that long at 10 too. Do you suppose your early familiarity with the language somehow came back to help you?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Carine", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (05:04)", "body": ""}, {"response": 32, "author": "Adi", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (15:46)", "body": "well, Ayelet, I knew it has to be something like that... I'm sure you are a smart kid (as Sharon said), anyone at your age expressing himself as you do must have some brains, it's just that my sister, also 11 years old, who I consider very intelligent can't quite understand what the English teacher wants from her... IMHO, one can't learn a foreign language just by sitting in the classroom 5 hours a week, no matter how smart he is. you had to talk, read, write and breath it (or even better - live in NY)."}, {"response": 33, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "Learning is far more interesting when you have an emotionnal interest in the subject, nothing like a good incentive"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (16:20)", "body": "It's even harder to learn a language in the US. Most school systems do not start teaching other languages until students are about 12, which is much too late to start learning. The brain is already wired for English and does not want to learn something else."}, {"response": 35, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (16:57)", "body": "}Most school systems do not start teaching other languages until students are about 12, which is much too late to start learning. Without mention, language here in Montreal is a subject much discussed. Some \"international school\" appeared in the last decade and some are teaching english in 1st grade and spanish in 4th or 5th. A younger mind is much more malleable and genereally closed to outside prejudices. There is although a definite positive influence when parents are exposing (positively) their kids early on to different cultures. From personnal experience, I learn basically through TV, mom never understood neither the language nor the anglophone culture. And my brother is closer to being unilangual, even if we had the same exposure. A mixture of interest and a definite easyness to learn surely advantaged me in the long run. Similar qualities and a vaguely similar experience happened to my dad, close to no schooling (3rd grade), working at 11 years old, he learned some yiddish and english while working in a factory. But for grammar and a deeper comprehension in litterature, I had to wait in High School, and like you say, 2 hours a week don't go far. ]The brain is already wired for English and does not want to learn something else. On this I have to argue. It might want to learn given the right incentive. Amazing how international connection (an american or australian boyfriend ;) experience opens your horizon. Nothing like being immerse in it (no joke here Cheryl). And you try not to drown. Brain is malleable enough given the right inducements to go further, beyond and broadening it's limits. It might seem more painful and difficult as years go by, it is true, but so much is possible."}, {"response": 36, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (16:59)", "body": "teaching english in 1st grade and spanish in 4th or 5th : I should have mention in a francophone school, which gives it another perspective."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (19:46)", "body": "Some people can learn languages at any age (scum balls), but studies have shown that the brain actually does wire itself for the languages it knows. Some languages have sounds that are very similar, if you do not grow up in that society, you will literally not be able to tell the difference between the sounds. The brain simply can not tell the difference. As the brain developes it becomes structured to hear and understand the languages it is familiar with. If you try to learn a language after this process is complete (in the early teens, I think), it is harder than if you started earlier. I studied German in high school and then Ancient Greek in college, the Greek was much harder to keep in my head than the German."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (21:04)", "body": "Ann2: . . . studies have shown that the brain actually does wire itself for the languages it knows. Some languages have sounds that are very similar, if you do not grow up in that society, you will literally not be able to tell the difference between the sounds. I thought that the difference was not in understanding (hearing) the difference, but it reproducing (speaking) it. I've heard that your ability to produce certain vocal effects, like for instance the gutteral ghhhhhttt found in Yiddish, is determined by the time you're two years old. I can make that sound (though not very well) because I heard Yiddish spoken as a baby, and it's helped me in French, in producing those sounds that start at the back of the throat. The maddening part is hearing the ound spoken perfectly and not being able to do it myself!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (00:30)", "body": "Yes indeed, Ann, we must differenciate what becomes almost instinctive and what is later a learned process therefore less instinctive, more of a thinking skill. Just by reading my post you can understand what I mean. ;)"}, {"response": 40, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (03:00)", "body": "Johanne: Nothing like being immerse in it (no joke here Cheryl). And you try not to drown. Johanne is an excellent swimmer! It is bad enough trying to use ordinary language in a \"second\" language, but today she \"swam\" in a geek-talk chat meeting that had my own poor English speaking brain spinning! I cannot imagine myself surviving that in French!) Ann: studies have shown that the brain actually does wire itself for the languages it knows. Though this digresses from the topic at hand, this is indeed true - you are now in my specialty. :-) Infants make all sorts of sounds, many not used in their own \"native\" language. Those of the predominant language are \"rewarded\" and encouraged, and the others become extinguished because nobody responds to them. The prime time for language learning, though, is birth-age 5 or 6, and the first two years of life are especially important. These are the years in which the sounds of the child's language ar \"imprinted\" in their minds. By the time a child enters school, the best time for learning a language is already past. It is still easier to learn before one learns to read and spell. Once the sounds of one's spoken language have been linked with the visual symbols, it is very difficult to un-link them. I know how to pronounce a French \"r\" - but it takes tremendous effort to make myself do it - especially if reading aloud. This is also why the experts feel that children raised in institutions in which there is little individual attention given to each child during infancy never do develop language profficiency equal to children who are raised in situations in which individual attention is paid and stimulation given to the child at this critical age. Families adopting disadvantaged children from foreign orphanages are finding that no amount of stimulation given later on in the child's development can make up for what was l st during the first year or two of a child's development. Joan, too"}, {"response": 41, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (13:31)", "body": "Joan, too: I saw a tv program last week about children adopted from Romanian orphanages -- confirmed what you wrote above. In fact, they showed that the brain scans of many (though not all) of these children showed little or no activity in the language center of the brain. Sadly, there are fewer adoptions being allowed at any ages out of Romania, even though there are still many children warehoused in state institutions. It was enough to make you weep or scream."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "Joan, too I recognize what you have said from my work with children and books ...and from own experience. My son was about ten months old when he came into our lifes from Chile and the first weeks the only thing he said that we could understand was Que (spelling?) as in \"what, what is that\" . A smile comes to my face as I recall the sound of his tiny voice. He arrived in time I think I may safely say.He has our sense of humour and no trouble to melt into the family on behalf of language. Kathleen I too, have seen those films from institutions in different countries and agree from bottom of heart. If only every child could have a home with love and people to listen and care !"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (14:53)", "body": "You had other children first, Ann2? Tell more."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Adi", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (15:19)", "body": "Johanne and Anne3, I was pleasantly surprised that both of you mentioned Yiddish. As far as I know it's a dying language that only Hasidim and old Russian jews still talk. my late beloved grandparents used to talk Yiddish, and as much as I tried I couldn't learn it from them... but it's such a beautiful language!. it practically has a word for everything under the sun and there are a lot of witty expressions. Anne3: I've heard that your ability to produce certain vocal effects, like for instance the gutteral ghhhhhttt found in Yiddish you probably mean the letter \"Hat\" (ghhhat) in Hebrew. as someone who has this letter in her surname (Sha ch am) I can say that you are absolutely right!. many people form abroad just can't pronounce it, so we call ourselves \"Shaham\" whenever we aren\ufffdt in Israel. I have the same problem trying to say \"th\" in English. It always comes out as \"S\" or \"F\"..."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (17:06)", "body": "Adi, I'm sorry to say that while my grandparents spoke Yiddish as their native tongue (they all came to the U.S. as children), and while my mother and her brothers and sister all learned to speak it fluently, it has not been passed on to the third generation. My mother had the attitude, typical among second-generation Americans, that to be \"ethnic\" was embarrassing. She wanted to assimilate herself into American culture, which in those days meant an exclusively WASP culture. It's not as bad now, I thin ; people know that American culture is a blend of many others, and they try to preserve what they can of their family's heritage. But the closest I ever came to learning Yiddish (other than picking up a handful of invaluable expressions from older family members and friends) was a course given in summer camp when I was nine or ten. And all I remember from that was how to count to ten! :-("}, {"response": 46, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (10:14)", "body": "Johanne, when my sister lived in Montreal (she did her fellowship for pulmonary medicine at McGill) she told me about the daughter of a friend of hers. The father was from Spain, the mother was Norwegian and the girl went to an international school, by the time she was seven, she could speak Spanish, Norwegian, French and English. I learned remidial Spanish as part of an experiment in 6th grade--I can still count to ten. I took French in high school and college, but have no opportunity to use it, so have forgotton most of it. In high school, we used to speak amongst ourselves in \"franglais\", which was a combination of French/English, were we would revert back to English whenever we did not know the French word something. Example: Ma souer est un medicin, qui specializes dans les lung diseases."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (10:20)", "body": "In high school, we used to speak amongst ourselves in \"franglais\", which was a combination of French/English, were we would revert back to English whenever we did not know the French word something. Should read:In high school, we used to speak amongst ourselves in \"franglais\", which was a combination of French/English, were we would revert back to English whenever we did not know the French word for something."}, {"response": 48, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Oct 24, 2000 (08:01)", "body": "austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 108, "subject": "Coming this week", "response_count": 42, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:54)", "body": "I got N.A. on tape a few months ago, Katy. I think I have already offered it to Donna on another thread, but if not, maybe you'd like it........"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:54)", "body": ""}, {"response": 3, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "Caroline, Mich offered me Persuasion, I must have missed you offer somewhere in \"Threadville\". Help?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (20:24)", "body": "Mich, has it under control Caroline, Thanks anyway."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (09:05)", "body": "Katy, look into my eyes......... Nostromo, tonight, 9p.m. EST........Nostromo, tonight, 9p.m. EST.........Nostromo, tonight....."}, {"response": 6, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (11:08)", "body": "Thanks caroline!!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "*** S i g h****"}, {"response": 8, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (12:34)", "body": "add ;)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (12:46)", "body": "Practice your HTML HERE at AUSTENTEST. Johanne"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (10:30)", "body": "On U.S. tv this week: Sense and Sensibility (1995) HBO, Sat. Jan.18, 6:30 pm. The Advocate with Colin Firth Cinemax, Wed. Jan. 15, 11 pm. The Princess Caraboo --a charming story set in Regency England. Anna Chancellor has a small part, and for once she isn't humiliated by the hero! Not Austen-related, but definitely worthwhile: Barcelona The Movie Channel, Sun. Jan. 12 at 3:20 pm and Mon. Jan. 13 at 11:35 am Breaking Away Disney Channel, Sun. Jan. 12 at 10 pm. A Little Princess (1995) Cinemax, Friday Jan. 17 at 1 pm. This is a beautiful movie. It deserves all those adjectives usually thrown around indescriminately--\"magical,\" \"luminous,\" \"enchanting.\" Even if you don't think you'd like it, give it a chance. I wish I had Cinemax so I could tape it. Jane Eyre The Welles version. Bravo, Fri. Jan. 17 at 3:10 pm and Sat., Jan. 18 at 11 am. Bravo is also showing Wuthering Heights and Nicholas Nickleby in hour-long episodes this week, but I don't know which versions they are and the times they're being shown."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (11:31)", "body": "All times given in my last post are EST."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (17:27)", "body": "VertView Notice Don't forget that the discussion for the Persuasion VirtView is scheduled to begin Sunday, Jan. 19...so watch the film sometime this week so you may join in the melee next Sunday! :-)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (17:44)", "body": "Masterpiece theatre this week is about the disasterous marriage of King George IV--he's the man who put the regent in Regency. Definitely our time period (G-IV wanted JA to dedicate one of her novels to him!) Should be interesting to see a rendition of how the highest class was behaving while JA was writing."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (19:12)", "body": "Ann, they were behaving badly, very badly ! By all accounts, it could be a prequal to the Charles/Diana mess!!;-)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "Wasn't it the prince who demanded it would be \"okay\" for JA to dedicate?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (21:05)", "body": "Amy: Wasn't it the prince who demanded it would be \"okay\" for JA to dedicate? Yes it was! Insufferable man! ;-)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (08:32)", "body": "I put this URL in the other thread also, but Jane Austen comments on this affair are at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/jprncwal.html"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Paola", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:35)", "body": "I'd like to inform everyone from Canada that Backbeat, starring Jennifer Ehle, will be aired in City Tv (channel 7) at 9:00 pm on Wednesday January 15. It's the story about the Beatles before they became famous. I think that she appears with her original hair colour in this movie and that it'd be a treat to see her acting capabilities before she played Lizzy in P&P. Paola"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (08:14)", "body": "Thanks, Paola. That one's worth watching more than once."}, {"response": 20, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (21:49)", "body": "Last night on Cinemax they played \"The Advocate\", starring Colin Firth. I tuned in and saw more of Colin than I ever thought I would! It is a 1995 movie...check your listings if you get Cinemax, they may show it again. It is an R rated movie so be careful who is in the room......remember the bath scene in P&P...this gives more coverage (or uncoverage, actually) of that scene... Linda in Georgia"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (02:11)", "body": "VirtView Notice: BBC Persuasion For those who have the old BBC videos or would care to rent them, the discussion of the old BBC version of Persuasion will begin next Sunday, Jan. 26, so be sure to watch the video this week sometime. Should make for some interesting discussions and comparisons with the Amanda Root version we just watched."}, {"response": 22, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (09:12)", "body": "Cheryl: I am relatively new to this site. Is the discussion going to be in the Pemberley Drawing room, or on a new topic here? Also, what time (U.S.)?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "Here Sharon. Though we have thought about doing it live too. Wht do you think? (LOL re Barbie's camper)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (09:48)", "body": "Some interesting talk show guests coming this week/next week: Late Show With David Letterman, CBS (US) Tu 1/28 Helena Bonham Carter Late Late Show With Tom Snyder, CBS (US) Fr 1/31 Helena Bonham-Carter Charlie Rose, PBS (US) Tu 1/21 Juliet Binoche We 1/22 Liam Neeson Will some of these shows wake up, and please please book Colin Firth ? Zimei"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (11:40)", "body": "Has Colin Firth ever done a live interview?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (16:47)", "body": "Sharon, glad to have you with us! When we have a VirtView we will usually discuss it here at Spring, although if people are excited about it, it tends to spill over into Pemberley! This week we are discussing the Amanda Root Persuasion over at the Persuasion Topic. We've had similar movie discussions on The English Patient and Nostromo if you care read and add your two cents worth to those! ;-) About the upcoming BBC Persuasion, several of us discovered we had these old videos and wanted to discuss them. I would not recommend going out and buying them to participate, since they are of poor quality compared to the more recent versions, and we only want to discuss them because some of us are hard-core Austen junkies who will watch even bad Austen and be happy. ;-) These are available though, at many of the larger video rental chains, if you care to rent them and help us to gleefully trash them! I'll probably start a new topic for the BBC Persuasion discussion on Saturday night, Jan. 25 in preparation for the discussion the following day. There is no set time, just jump on in...the Persuasion discussion started last Sunday and is still going on, so it is very flexible. If you have any more questions, please feel free to e-mail me. Glad you're here! :-)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "Re : 130:25 Never seen him do an interview on a US talkshow but been wandering what if we would altogether ask Ms O'Donnel to see him on his next visit to LA. Just a thought.... Charlie Rose would certainly do something very different with him as well, when he's in NY perhaps? Worth pestering them?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "jane", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (10:43)", "body": "Maybe not the perfect thread for it, but I want to wish our Aussies a very happy Australia Day this Sunday, January 26. My Jane Austen Diary 1997 doesn't say what it's about, but I assume something about throwing off colonial shackles---so CHEERS! from another former colony."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (17:00)", "body": "VertView Notice Watch the Emma Thompson Sense and Sensibility this week for discussion to begin Sunday, February 2. As Amy put it so well, \"Go ahead, watch it again, what will it hurt?\""}, {"response": 30, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Can I please start early? I watched S&S twice this last week on HBO and love it exceedingly well. My favorite scenes are (1) the one where Marianne is so ill and Colonel Brandon is beside him; his anguished plea to Elinor to \"Give me an occupation or I shall run mad\" pierces my soul; (2) the scene where CB has brought Marianne's mother to her and she says thank you to him (what a look of love!); and (3) the scene where Elinor finally blows and tells Marianne that \"had I not been bound by silence I could have produced evidence of a broken heart enough to satisfy even you\", and (4) when Elinor finds that Edward is not married and cannot hold her feelings in any longer. All in all, an excellent production, particularly considering that this is the one JA book I simply couldn't get through."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (21:43)", "body": "\"Is beside him self , obviously. Sorry! And I also meant to mention: does Alan Rickman have the greatest male voice since Jeremy Irons, or what? It's downright one more than threeplay."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (01:05)", "body": "Susan, Susan! Calm down girl! ;-) Watch it a couple more times and then let 'er rip on Sunday! *samooch*"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:27)", "body": "Ah'll be ba-a-a-a-ck!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (01:42)", "body": "Rickman's voice is pretty exciting."}, {"response": 35, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (09:07)", "body": "Rickmans can be exciting and also very endearing : Thinking of his look combining sadness and happiness when he watches his wife (Juliet Stevenson) leave the flat for a new found life, at the end of Truly Madly Deeply. (Sighhh)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:46)", "body": "Johanne, I just watch truly madly deeply this weekend. What a tear jerker, I cried & cried. It's such a great movie & Rickman is so good in it."}, {"response": 37, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:53)", "body": "What a tear jerker, I cried & cried= Oh yes, very much so, even after repeat viewing you believe yourself almost immuned but it is without avail, fortunately ;)"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (13:58)", "body": "Ladies; here is his fan page, with many fab photos; http://www.fred.net/karina/rickman/rickman.html"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (14:32)", "body": "well, thank you...that was a nice visit! ;-)"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (16:35)", "body": "VertView Notice: BBC Emma Discussion of the old BBC version of Emma will begin on Sunday, Feb.9, so watch the video sometime this week. The following week the new Emma will be shown on A&E, so this may make for a good preview."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (07:38)", "body": "From what I hear there's a huge Chocolate contest in Sydney, Australia ! Are they at all familiar with the Darcy dessert? I wonder if Anna or Hilary has sent them a sample."}, {"response": 42, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Oct 24, 2000 (08:01)", "body": "What is coming next? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 11, "subject": "Birthday Ball", "response_count": 205, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (15:20)", "body": "I shall not be able to attend this evening's festivities, but wish to convey to Miss Austen my deepest thanks and appreciation for the joy she has given me and to wish her my heartiest congragulations on her 221st birthday. I also wish to recognize our h osts, Amy and Terry and thank them for enriching my life with so many dear, dear friends. A toast: To Jane and her coterie. Cheers!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "celia", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (16:09)", "body": "I too must regrettably be absent from this evening's grand occasion, but I shall stop by at the earliest possible convenience tomorrow morning.My heartfelt thanks to Miss Austen for contributing to my happiness year after year through her wonderful novels , and best wishes to all of my fellow Janeites! I look forward to many happy conversations on this list, as well as the essential austen-l."}, {"response": 3, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (16:49)", "body": "Alas, I too must beg to be excused. Please dance a vigorous reel for me!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (17:19)", "body": ""}, {"response": 5, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (17:20)", "body": ""}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (17:33)", "body": "Henry, I see you have anticipated me. But maybe, I'll just go ahead and make some Dusky Mint balloons anyway. For her, you know."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:05)", "body": "Woo-hoo, Jane. I guess this means that you don't get carded anymore..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:09)", "body": "Hi Kali, did you have any trouble getting into the topic? It wasn't working for a couple hours."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:12)", "body": "Hi, Amy...no...I got in quite easily, thanks! ;)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:13)", "body": "Hi, Amy...no...I got in quite easily, thanks! ;)"}, {"response": 11, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:14)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Miss Austen. I wish for you more dancers than the room can conveniently hold, which (as we know) is enough to constitute a good ball at any time."}, {"response": 12, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:16)", "body": "I must take this opportunity to thank Miss Jane Austen for her wonderful novels. I echo Celia's comment above about how much pleasure I have had over the last 34 years from reading her delightful writings over and over etc. Many happy returns of the day to all Jane Austen fans everywhere around the world. What wonderful folks you all are! Capital, capital!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:16)", "body": "By the way, Amy. Someone opened up the permissions on this topic. I thought it was you. It must have been Terry. See the explanation in Help. Sorry I wasn't aroung sooner."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:19)", "body": "I did the deed, too."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:19)", "body": "Can we have some chocolate with the mint? We'll need something to give us the energy for all that rationality."}, {"response": 16, "author": "ldooley", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:20)", "body": "I want to extend my best wishes to Miss Austen on this her 221st birthday! She's aged very well, and has given me more pleasure through the years than I can ever express. So thank you Jane (if I may presume so far as to address you by your Christian name) and may you enjoy the attention you deserve for another 200 years."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:21)", "body": "Anyone care to 'dance' Mr B's Maggott? Lady and Gentleman right hand circle 8 paces..."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:21)", "body": "HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JANE!!! You still sound and read remarkably young for your age!!! Thanks for a lot of great hours I spent thanks to you!!!!!!! Happy Birthday to you Happy Birthday to you Happy Birthday dear Jane Happy Birthday to you!!!! (Btw, don't you all know it is impolite to mention a lady's age?)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:23)", "body": "\"Someone opened up the permissions on this topic. ' Well, when that happened, all of my topics got re-set to new. :-( Out of respect for Miss Austen, though, I will refrain from having a tantrum right here in the ballroom. [sigh]"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:23)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Miss Jane! Please excuse me for a moment, as I believe that Mr. Knightly has reserved this dance with me... :)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:23)", "body": "Jane, darling, if you are up there, you can see we love you. Thanks for the kind and civil thoughts and ideas you help me remember in this crazy century."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:25)", "body": "Kaff, when you and he have danced this set, please point him in my direction; I am in need of some encouragement."}, {"response": 23, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:26)", "body": "Marsha, thank you for starting the song -- I joined in on the last Happy Birthday, did you hear me? (I told my mother we were meeting to celebrate JA's birthday, and the first thing she asked was if we would sing Happy Birthday.)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:28)", "body": "Joan, I don't think it was the permissions change that reset your topics to new. But I don't know enough about this @#$%% system yet to figure out what did it. But I shall conquer this. Have a happy JA day, anyway. Myretta"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:28)", "body": "I'd be happy to send Mr. Knightley in your direction - as soon as you've finished gliding around the ballroom with Mr. Darcy, that is!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:28)", "body": "\"and the first thing she asked was if we would sing Happy Birthday.) ' But did anyone remember to pay the royalty ?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:28)", "body": "Oh, I forgot, if we are in the ballroom, Dear Jane, (pardon my presumption) would you care to introduce me to Cap. Frederick Wentworth-I believe he is in sad need of attention? (I see Darcy is already being torn to pieces-(I see him bowing to 10 ladies at once), and Mr Knightley is also reserved ) :-)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:29)", "body": "HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Miss Jane Austen, with infinite thanks for the hours of pleasure your books have given me. Although it may be impolite (and impolitic)) to mention a lady's age, when she reaches the age of 221, it is said with such a tone of reverence t hat it is no longer deemed impolite. So, dear Jane, may your work give pleasure for the next 221 years."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:29)", "body": "Kaffeine, may Captain Wentworth and I join your set?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:29)", "body": "Amy & Kaff -- I suppose you will take up the heroes' dance cards! I shall simply have to dance w/ the Wickham, Willoughby, and Crawford chaps. I understand that they are all quite charming as long as you do not take them too seriously."}, {"response": 31, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:30)", "body": "Amy, Have we remembered to thank you for the excellent arrangements? I can't remember a happier ball."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:32)", "body": "Anna, please do - what is a ball without a full dance floor? But - is that Mr. Collins I see asking Lady Catherine to dance?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:32)", "body": "It would be a great pity to omit Colonel Fitzwilliam from our set. I think a progressive dance is called for... Fair Go for all"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:32)", "body": "Kathleen, I believe Sanderson is unengaged. And you know he longs for a ball, most passionately, but you knew he would."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:34)", "body": "I feel that it is Mr Collins ascquiescing to Lady Catherine's command"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:34)", "body": "I'll see your Col Fitzwilliam, Anna and raise you three red coated Captains."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:34)", "body": "we'll dance with all the officers"}, {"response": 38, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:35)", "body": "Have any of you seen Mr. Bennet or is Mrs. B here by herself again? There are too many ladies!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:36)", "body": "Kathleen - Don't look now, but I believe I heard Mr. Frank Churchill mention that he wanted a dance with you. What will Miss Fairfax think?!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:36)", "body": "and a clergyman or two? Lady C can keep Mr Collins, but Mr Tilney has a certain charm..."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:36)", "body": "Excuse me ladies. I must see to the duck. Supper shall be after the set after this. Someone please get out the duck tape and find Mary."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:38)", "body": "Hope I have not arrived too late to extend my birthday wishes to our esteemed authoress on her 221st. Here's three cheers for Jane!!!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:39)", "body": "Happy B-day Jane! Celebrate good times, come on! It's a celebration to last two hundred and twenty-one years. So bring your good friends and your laughter too. We're gonna all celebrate your party with you!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:42)", "body": "Yes, too many ladies. Maybe I could get Denny to dance. Aaah-I see John Thorpe coming my way, gotta run"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:43)", "body": "Okay, Kaff...Knightley's MINE, now...so hand him over, unless you want to do the weird Siamese twin version of the English country dance...;) Anybody for some Scottish stuff? Thistle and the Rose? Mairi's Wedding? (sorry, I grew up with this stuff...)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:43)", "body": "Amy - happy thought indeed; wrap Mary in the duck tape. Our Jane deserves better than Mary. I wonder if Kiri is free tonight?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:44)", "body": "I see that the wax is dripping from the chandlier from above. Time is running out. I believe it is my turn to dance with Mr. Darcy before the candles go out. Thank you very much. I would be delighted sir."}, {"response": 48, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:44)", "body": "Amy, I hope there is enough white soup."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:45)", "body": "Kali, be nice - I'm sure that Knightley would chose a lady, in every respect. smile girls"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:46)", "body": "I am back, after having to listen to description of dogs and carriage horses, but now John Thorpe is occupied in talking to Maria Lucas (and enquiring about Sir William's money), so I have a suggestion-how about some music? What about an aria sung by Lizz y? (We'll have to tie and gag Mary, though)"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:46)", "body": "Yes, mother Anna...;)"}, {"response": 52, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:50)", "body": "Why isn't Colonel Brandon dancing when there are so many handsome young ladies without partners? Do you think I may be so bold as to approach him?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:51)", "body": "Yes, Marsha, please don't mention your desire for a song too loudly. I see Mary clutching her music pages in the corner over there, waiting for an opening."}, {"response": 54, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:52)", "body": "I will play but please don't make me sing..."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:52)", "body": "Yes, my dear Myretta, do. The Colonel is often shy."}, {"response": 56, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:52)", "body": "I will play but please don't make me sing..."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:53)", "body": "Possibly Mrs Frank Churchill would agree to honour us (the Bingley sisters may never have encountered a truly fine performance)"}, {"response": 58, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:54)", "body": "Why Mr Frank Churchill, I would very much enjoy dancing. Are you quite certain that you are not engaged to Mrs. Elton for this dance? No? Well then, let us begin. But why is Miss Fairfax looking daggers at me? Oh, she need glasses does she? Well then, perhaps Mr Perry can advise her. You are very light on your feet, sir; do you ever dance at St James?"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:54)", "body": "Possibly Mrs Frank Churchill would agree to honour us (the Bingley sisters may never have encountered a truly fine performance)"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:55)", "body": "Nice one, Joan. If we planned these things in advance, we could have things like that all ready to go. Music too. Well, it's a beta event. Have you seen a shy hippo around anywhere?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:55)", "body": "I'm sure Mr. Churchill would be more than willing to accompany her, Anna...perhaps we should tie him to Mary's chair? ;)"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Lauren", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:56)", "body": "I can't remember a happier time than these few short minutes I've spent in all of your company! Is Capt. Wentworth free for a dance?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:57)", "body": "Someone stop her please! On no it is to late."}, {"response": 64, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:57)", "body": "Amy -- where is the Mysterious HC? I wanted to ask him to dance the p---- with me!"}, {"response": 65, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:57)", "body": "Someone stop her please! Oh no! It is to late."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:57)", "body": "Someone stop her please! Oh no! It is too late."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:57)", "body": "Do you think maybe Mr & Mrs Frank Churchill should sing duets-the report has it, they are very good? As long as it won't bring Miss Bates nearby for too long Is that Mary I hear struggling with the gag in the closet?"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:58)", "body": "truly lady Catherine I only pulled the submit bell once. I did have a great deal of trouble attracting the attention of the server. Good servers are so hard to find these days. Pray tell me how you arrange these matters"}, {"response": 69, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:58)", "body": "\"If we planned these things in advance, we could have things like that all ready to go. Music too. ' I was just wishing that I had scanned in some of the soldiers - their"}, {"response": 70, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:59)", "body": "Donna -- calm yourself. It will all be over directly."}, {"response": 71, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:59)", "body": "\"If we planned these things in advance, we could have things like that all ready to go. Music too. ' I was just wishing that I had scanned in some of the soldiers - their"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:59)", "body": "To Jane, on her birthday: http://www.dailywav.com/0896/partyon.wav"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:59)", "body": "Polite English society didn't do polkas in the 1810's, Kathleen! ;)"}, {"response": 74, "author": "jane", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:59)", "body": "How lovely the candlelight is, reflected off the soft green walls. And you all look so elegant in your ballgowns. Kitty told me she wanted to wear this one, but I thought I looked nice in it. (Other way, Mr. Collins! Oh dear, I hope he didn't hurt you , Donna, but as you only have eyes for Mr. Darcy, you didn't see him coming. What an excellent birthday party! Jane"}, {"response": 75, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:00)", "body": "any HC will do"}, {"response": 76, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:00)", "body": "Hi, Kaff..."}, {"response": 77, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:00)", "body": "In honor of the occasion I will spare you the blinking, but GRRRRRRRR! The soldiers' red coats would have"}, {"response": 78, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:00)", "body": "In honor of the occasion I will spare you the blinking, but GRRRRRRRR! The soldiers' red coats would have"}, {"response": 79, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:01)", "body": "GRRRRRRRRR! would have been so becoming!"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:02)", "body": "why won't HC dance with me?"}, {"response": 81, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:02)", "body": "Kali -- of course you are right about polkas in 1810 England. But perhaps we could pretend that we are in the P&P0 movie version!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:02)", "body": "Joan: :)"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:03)", "body": "Hi, Sis! Have you had your spin around the dance floor with Mr. Knightly yet?"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:03)", "body": "Kathleen, you may dance however you like...I'm just being pedantic. I happen to love polkas, myself! Hey, do any of you people actually dance? ;)"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:04)", "body": "I fear the server is becoming tired; it will only give me the latest message claiming it is too busy to remember earlier ones. I shall have to resort to tips..."}, {"response": 86, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:04)", "body": "Kaff, I have a feeling JA might have liked Wayne's World. Once. She probably would not have devoted a BB to it, though."}, {"response": 87, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:04)", "body": "Oh, you are such a fine dancer, Mr Darcy! How can you contrive to dance so even? There is nothing in the world like a good dance! Mr darcy, you are a dancer without fault... The other way, Mr Collins!!!!"}, {"response": 88, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:04)", "body": "Kaff...We've been at it for the last half-hour...wanna cut in? ;)"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:05)", "body": "Marsha, while you're busy with Mr. Collins, and Kaffeine is dancing with Mr. Knightley, do you thing Mr. Darcy might oblige me with a dance? ;)"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:06)", "body": "]do any of you people actually dance? ;) anywhere, anytime ; ) (but not with Mr Collins)"}, {"response": 91, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:07)", "body": "What kind of dance are you into, Anna?"}, {"response": 92, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:07)", "body": "\"it will only give me the latest message claiming it is too busy to remember earlier ones. ' Type the number of the last message that you saw into the redisplay box and it will continue on from there."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:07)", "body": "Ah, Mr. Knightley, I thought you'd never ask! Amy - What do you suppose Jane would have devoted a BB to?"}, {"response": 94, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:08)", "body": "gracious hostess, may I offer refreshments; we have a well-stocked desert trolley nearby..."}, {"response": 95, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:08)", "body": "Amy & Terry: Thank you so much for inviting me to the Jane Austen Birthday Ball. I do not know when I have had such a virtually good time. I fear that I must bid you all adieu, as I have an early day tomorrow."}, {"response": 96, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:09)", "body": "Great question, Kaff. Parodies of Fordyces Sermons?"}, {"response": 97, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:09)", "body": "Good night, kathleen..."}, {"response": 98, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:09)", "body": "Joan, I thought you might like to know that between the last set and this, \"everything old is new again\" on my browser. My! So much can happen when you are so happily engaged!"}, {"response": 99, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:09)", "body": "I'll take you home, Kathleen."}, {"response": 100, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:10)", "body": "Kali--Yes, I love to dance. Polka is of course a favorite along with the waltz, and good slavic folk dances which make your knees ache just watching them. Mr. Collins trod on my frock and tore it, you know!"}, {"response": 101, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:10)", "body": "\"What do you suppose Jane would have devoted a BB to?' Perhaps to a gallery devoted to the portrait painters of the time who managed to capture her characters in their work?"}, {"response": 102, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:10)", "body": "Or perhaps tacky novels? ;)"}, {"response": 103, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:10)", "body": "Joan, I've been doing that; it just won't give me the new ones automatically Kali - anything that doesn't recquire a black belt in judo"}, {"response": 104, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:10)", "body": "Of course, Kali-he is all yours (for this dance anyway).- I will sit this one out. But next I am dancing the reel with Bingley!...Wonder why Mrs Bennet looks daggers at me? Someone is creeping behind me to the piano-it's Mary-STOP HER!!!"}, {"response": 105, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:10)", "body": "Joan, I thought you might like to know that between the last set and this, \"everything old is new again\" on my browser. My! So much can happen when you are so happily engaged!"}, {"response": 106, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:11)", "body": "Do we have any way of discovering how many people are actually in attendance at this lavish assembly?"}, {"response": 107, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:12)", "body": "Joan: Do you mean the soilder that stood in front of Mr. Darcy as Jane and Lizzie entered the ball with Mr. Bingley. As for Mr. Collins he didn't hurt me I spun him across the room and he landed onright on Lady Catherine's footstool.Where he belongs."}, {"response": 108, "author": "Lauren", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:13)", "body": "I'm afraid all this dancing has tired me out! In my time zone it is after midnight so I must bid you all Good Night...besides, Col. Brandon is currently on PBS right now so good night. And Happy Birthday!!"}, {"response": 109, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:13)", "body": "Ann...the waltz is my all time FAVORITE...but I do a Viennese-style, not Fred-and-Ginger ballroom style...ah yes, Slavic Dances...did I ever tell you that my parents met at age fourteen in a Croatian folk dance exhibition group? ;)...my mom was the lighte st girl so she was always at the end of the line, and kept getting whipped around..."}, {"response": 110, "author": "Lauren", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:14)", "body": "I'm afraid all this dancing has tired me out! In my time zone it is after midnight so I must bid you all Good Night...besides, Col. Brandon is currently on PBS right now so good night. And Happy Birthday!!"}, {"response": 111, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:15)", "body": "I don't Joan. Are you surprised by that answer? I am getting tired of giving it."}, {"response": 112, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:15)", "body": "\" \"everything old is new again\"' My pseudonym has also reverted. It almost looks as if some (or all?) of us were removed from the conference, and then re-joined."}, {"response": 113, "author": "Lauren", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:15)", "body": "I'm afraid all this dancing has tired me out! In my time zone it is after midnight so I must bid you all Good Night...besides, Col. Brandon is currently on PBS right now so good night. And Happy Birthday!!"}, {"response": 114, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:16)", "body": "\" \"everything old is new again\"' My pseudonym has also reverted. It almost looks as if some (or all?) of us were removed from the conference, and then re-joined."}, {"response": 115, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:16)", "body": "\" \"everything old is new again\"' My pseudonym has also reverted. It almost looks as if some (or all?) of us were removed from the conference, and then re-joined."}, {"response": 116, "author": "Lauren", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:17)", "body": "I'm afraid all this dancing has tired me out! In my time zone it is after midnight so I must bid you all Good Night...besides, Col. Brandon is currently on PBS right now so good night. And Happy Birthday!!"}, {"response": 117, "author": "Lauren", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:17)", "body": "I'm afraid all this dancing has tired me out! In my time zone it is after midnight so I must bid you all Good Night...besides, Col. Brandon is currently on PBS right now so good night. And Happy Birthday!!"}, {"response": 118, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:18)", "body": "Good night Pamela. D-d-d-d-d-d-dupes aplenty."}, {"response": 119, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:18)", "body": "Pamela/Lauren...every time you hit reload, it reposts your last message...;)"}, {"response": 120, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:20)", "body": "I too must call it a night. I have enjoyed myself tremendously, though, and hope that we won't have to wait until Jane's next birthday for another ball! \"If he had any compassion for me, he would not have danced half so much!\""}, {"response": 121, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:20)", "body": "Kaff, Mr Darcy is pooped...are you done with Mr. Knightley yet? ;)"}, {"response": 122, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:22)", "body": "I think we may have found the yapp limits here. I'm going to duck out and try to do a quick head count. Don't let the Colonel (any of them)leave 'til I get back."}, {"response": 123, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:22)", "body": "Someone help! Robert Ferrars is explaining to me about cottages! I must be a bore magnet. Kali, would you dance with him, as a favor, since you finished with Mr Darcy?"}, {"response": 124, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:23)", "body": "Certainly, Marsha...but who will entertain Mr. Knightley whilst I am away? ;)"}, {"response": 125, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:25)", "body": "Maybe Mrs. Martin will repay him for his earlier kindness to her? ;)"}, {"response": 126, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:25)", "body": "Kali, At Grinnell College (my alma mater--mentioned in 1000 Acres by the way) there are two all-campus waltzes every year. The Des Moines orchestra comes and every one dances (or in many cases tries to). I was among the group of die-hard waltzers. The gym was usually very crowded, and far too many people didn't understand ball-room ettiquette--namely stay out of the fast lane . People would just stand around on the edge of the floor. So my fr iends and I became the Kamakazi Waltzers. Our opinion was: if they are going to be stupid enough to stand in our way, we are going to plow right through them. The best way was to show up early befor the gym filled with people, they you could really cut lo se with some wonderful Viennese waltzing. When we showed up before the music started we would dance to our own tune: Why are there so many songs about sperm whales? And what's on the other side. Sperm whales are visions, But merely illusions. Sperm whales have nothing to hide. Some day we'll find it, The Sperm Whale connection, The lovers the dreamers and sperm. (If you ever want to teach children how to waltz, \"Why Are There So Many Songs About Rainbows\" is in 3-4 time!)"}, {"response": 127, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:26)", "body": "Night Kaff."}, {"response": 128, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:27)", "body": "I love it, Ann...actually, Ashokan Farewell works well...my brother plays it on the violin...and some good Cajun waltzes and random schottisches...oh, and hambos...another waltz cousin..."}, {"response": 129, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:28)", "body": "And lovely Irish waltzes...Star of the COunty Down is my dad's fave..."}, {"response": 130, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:29)", "body": "Who will entertain Mr Knightley? Why Kali, what a question-I, of course!"}, {"response": 131, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:30)", "body": "I thought you would attempt to usurp Mr. Darcy, Marsha, dear...but thank you for your kindness and good-breeding...;)"}, {"response": 132, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:31)", "body": "I miss dancing! I don't get much of a chance these days. One thing I would love to try to do: apply hip-hop dance steps to big-band swing music and vice versa--they both have about the same rhythms (sp???). It would be really interesting to try, and would be a hoot besides!"}, {"response": 133, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:32)", "body": "Well, Ladies. Colonel Brandon has kindly offered to see me to my carriage (which, by the way, is about to turn into a pumpkin). Please give my regrets to Marianne (snicker, snicker). Thank you, Amy. It has been a charming evening and I am certain that our guest of honor also enjoyed herself. Indeed, she seems quite surrounded by admirers. If I'm not mistaken, I believe HC himself is at her feet. How could we wonder where he was? A demain."}, {"response": 134, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:32)", "body": "I like swing, too...Eastcoast, westcoast, or country?"}, {"response": 135, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:33)", "body": "Goodnight, Ms. Myretta..."}, {"response": 136, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:33)", "body": "Actually, I have never swung or hip-hopped, but I would love to learn."}, {"response": 137, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:34)", "body": "Ann, do you tango? My dad is growing frustrated with my inability to learn it...he did manage to teach me the Santa Rita..."}, {"response": 138, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:34)", "body": "Night Myretta, Thanks for the counsel. If I don't talk to you tomorrow, I will see you on Wednesday. Everybody remember to watch Myretta."}, {"response": 139, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:35)", "body": "How many of us are left. Maybe we should do a roll call?"}, {"response": 140, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:35)", "body": "Is that Mr Hurst I see sprawling on the sofa? I think he had too many refreshments. And, yes, Kali, I would usurp Mr Darcy, but it is extremely hard to extricate him from Caroline's clutches."}, {"response": 141, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:35)", "body": "Ann, we must get together and dance...have you ever considered attending one of the many dance symposia and week-long camps/conferences devoted to folk dancing? My father teaches Greek dance on that \"circuit\"..."}, {"response": 142, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:36)", "body": "Be sure to keep him upright, Marsha...wouldn't want him to pull a Jimi Hendrix...;)"}, {"response": 143, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:39)", "body": "Night, Myretta! Have a nice time :-) A hint: Marianne has a very jealous disposition! Better be extra careful!"}, {"response": 144, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:39)", "body": "I love the tango!! I don't see how you could have a problem with it! ;-). 1-2-1-2-3, 1-2-1-2-3. I haven't attended any camps, but I did some folk dancing in college. The group knew more Israeli dances than anything else (I know an Israeli rain dance, if you are ever in a drought). We had someone come to campus who had just been in Hungary learning t heir dances--they were the most painful dances I've ever seen!"}, {"response": 145, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:40)", "body": "I have trouble with some of the more advanced moves...it's just not my dance...;)"}, {"response": 146, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:41)", "body": "Painfull to look at or to do?"}, {"response": 147, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:41)", "body": "Do any Greek dance, Ann...?"}, {"response": 148, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:42)", "body": "We seem to be slowing down here. Perhaps we could safely move into the drawing room?"}, {"response": 149, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:42)", "body": "I am going to take off, too, ladies. Night all, night dear Jane. Til next year, pal,"}, {"response": 150, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:42)", "body": "Hungarian dances...with all that spinning and stuff? Yeah...I never tried it..."}, {"response": 151, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:43)", "body": "A few Greek dances, but like I said mostly Israeli."}, {"response": 152, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:43)", "body": "'Night, Amy...I'll be off soon, too..."}, {"response": 153, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:44)", "body": "I took dance classes, but, must announce with regret, was not a huge success. Oh well. At least I was not quite so bad as Mr Collins"}, {"response": 154, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:44)", "body": "hip-hop to add variety to our ball; happy thought indeed. I can see Tilney and Bingley but I fear not Darcy nor Knightley"}, {"response": 155, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:45)", "body": "Lots of grapevines for you then...I've never really liked Israeli folk dances...my friend Lisa is in Rabbinical school in Israel, and she's learning to dance some Israeli dances...she says the teachers are better over there..."}, {"response": 156, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:45)", "body": "Hip-Hop is definitely not Darcy/Knightley stuff...which is fine with me...;)"}, {"response": 157, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:46)", "body": "I think I must leave quite soon: Captain Wentworth kindly offered me a ride home and he is getting impatient. But, so far, it's been a blast-I'll stick around for a little bit."}, {"response": 158, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:46)", "body": "Kali are you going? - good luck then"}, {"response": 159, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:47)", "body": "Ann, any English/Scottish COuntry dance or contras?"}, {"response": 160, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:48)", "body": "Soon, Anna...take care...how was last night? I hear you guys gorged on wine and foccacia, but not Arak Haddad...;)"}, {"response": 161, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:49)", "body": "Lots of deep knee bends. The worst move was: turn to the right dropping the left knee to the ground, come back up immediately and turn to the left dropping the right knee to the ground--repeat until your thighs explode! We had one dance where the theory was that all the women in a village would get together and dance it together over and over and over again--the last one standing was considered the most marriagable (we joked that it was because she could carry the ox bac k in from the fields). I always won!! I had a way of intimidating my worthy adversaries, I could control my breathing, so while they were collapsing, I wasn't even breathing hard. Loads of fun."}, {"response": 162, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:50)", "body": "No, Mr Wickham, I do NOT want to know the story of your sufferings! Anyway, I see lYdia beconing you. Please be as good as to leave, sir! No, I do not have any fortune nor... wait, there is no need to take off!!!!"}, {"response": 163, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:51)", "body": "You go, Ann! ;)"}, {"response": 164, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:51)", "body": "A little Morris dancing and some scottish--not much though."}, {"response": 165, "author": "donr", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:51)", "body": "Happy birthday Miss Austen. I apologize for using Louisiana time to attend your party. I trust that you will be available for a quadrille, even if it is late. At the vey least I would like to thank you for all the hours of reading enjoyment you have pr ovided so many people."}, {"response": 166, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:51)", "body": "fine K. I'm saving the Arak for a less civilised occaision; it doesn't seem like Miss Jane Austen's kind of drink"}, {"response": 167, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:51)", "body": "Marsha, let me take him off of your hands...finish dancing with Kinghtley..."}, {"response": 168, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:52)", "body": "My dad used to coach college soccer...half his team, it seemed, was always Jordanian...so we got lost of Arak...;)"}, {"response": 169, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:53)", "body": "I feel a reel would come easily to Wickham"}, {"response": 170, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:54)", "body": "Okay, kids...I must bid you adieu...if Mrs. Knightley asks where her husband is, he's escorting me home...;)"}, {"response": 171, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:54)", "body": "Thanks, Kali, he does dance charmingly :-)"}, {"response": 172, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:55)", "body": "Thanks, Kali, he does dance charmingly :-)"}, {"response": 173, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:55)", "body": "]so we got lost of Arak...;) I get rather lost with Arak too. Maybe it'd do for Charlotte Bronte's birthday?"}, {"response": 174, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:55)", "body": "I better go too. This was a lot of fun. See y'all real soon."}, {"response": 175, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:56)", "body": "It's a plan, Anna...when is Charlotte Bronte's blessed birthday? ;)"}, {"response": 176, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:57)", "body": "'Night..."}, {"response": 177, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:57)", "body": "Kali - I must plead ignorance (where is HC when we need him?)"}, {"response": 178, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:58)", "body": "'night hope the blisters aren't too bad"}, {"response": 179, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:59)", "body": "Well, I've got to go! It's been a charming evening! Let's go, Captain Wentworth. Thank you for offering me your escort. What? I may call you Frederick? Thank you, it is great to call you by your christian name. O? You want to stop in some nice place on th e way? Of course! (Look out Anne, I do like men who write long letters, for, as my dear Caroline says \"a man who can write long letters with ease, cannot write ill\") G'night you all! I had a wonderful party! Bye, Jane, see you next year!"}, {"response": 180, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (23:06)", "body": "Thank God someone is older than I am - even if is \"the late\" Miss Austen. Thank you, Miss Austen for so many wonderful hours reading your books. Did you ever dream your stories would be on a thing called \"television\" and would be discussed on things called \"computers\"? Thanks to you, Amy and Terry, for making it possible for us to be together. I lift my cup of General Mills French Coffee to you!"}, {"response": 181, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (23:28)", "body": "So sorry that I have arrived so late. Problems. Problems have kept me from attending any sooner. I am grieved indeed, grieved shocked, that I have missed all the fun. As I was trying to cross Cheep-street at Union-passage a wild young man in a odious g ig drove by with vehemence and splattered mud all over my gown. I do hope that the ball was enjoyable to all. Even though I am so late, I still had to come to wish our sweet Jane a wonderful Birthday. May we have many more wonderful events to celebrate our Patroness."}, {"response": 182, "author": "mich", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (23:51)", "body": "HAPPY BIRTHDAY JANE!!! Mich"}, {"response": 183, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (01:46)", "body": "Sorry I missed the festivities... I overslept on my nap And I would have been a much better virtual dancer than in real life! Hope you enjoyed my party decorations..."}, {"response": 184, "author": "geekman", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (02:11)", "body": "Yesp, I knoze I'm reeely late, but oive been working and then selabrating sooo mutch that I didn't make it to the ball! Happy Birthday Jane Austen Thank you Terry and Amy for keeping fed our addiction. Oh and Anna I'll have a chocolate profiterol, thanks. Cheers Oh ... Miss Jane ... you still here? Care for a dance?"}, {"response": 185, "author": "geekman", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (02:14)", "body": "And since it is the 17th! Happy Birthday Ludwig !"}, {"response": 186, "author": "geekman", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (02:15)", "body": "And since it is the 17th! Happy Birthday Ludwig ! Could you play the \"Fur d'elise\" while Miss Jane and I dance?"}, {"response": 187, "author": "Saman", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (02:28)", "body": "What - I go away for a mere 10 hours and miss all the fun - then again I started celebrating the festive occasion about 18 hours before most of you (except for my Aussie neighbours). A belated, but very sincere \"happy birthday\"!"}, {"response": 188, "author": "geekman", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (05:30)", "body": "G'day Again! Since no one else has bothered, I've here posted the link to the wonderful Beveridge Midi file at the Hawaiin Contradancers site. Thanks HC so much for finding this useful page. Anyone care to dance the Maggot with me now? http://www.lll.hawaii.edu/contra/dances/beveridge.midi"}, {"response": 189, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (15:23)", "body": "''And I would have been a much better virtual dancer than in real life!'' H.C., If you had ever learnt, you would have been a true proficient. Happy Birthday to you, Ms. Austen. You are respected, you are esteemed, we are grateful to you, especially so for your kind introductions to the Bingleys, Darcys, Wentworths, Knightleys and Bennetts. I'm sure you understand us, for you are the kindest, most thoughful of authors. Thank you on behalf of all our ''family''."}, {"response": 190, "author": "Glinda", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (18:26)", "body": "Happy Birthday Jane! I am sorry to have missed your ball. Even a late reading of your party was fun. Thank you Amy for hosting such entertaining company of people."}, {"response": 191, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (18:55)", "body": "Glinda. Don't be so shy in the Drawing Room, Come out sometime. You don't have to say much or be clever or anything. I am not most times but like to come in any mood."}, {"response": 192, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (00:19)", "body": "Make haste! Make haste! was I telling myself. Alas, nothing would do. And here I am, late. Oh! Miss Austen, how wonderful to see you're still here. Let me congratulate you on your honorable birthday and allow me to express the pure delight of reading your prose. Unfortunately, I can see that most of your faithfull admirors have already left the festivities. Your know surely that for us, living in this virtual country village, it is but a second from your residence. Therefore, while visiting the notables o the parish, Mr Terry and Mrs Amy and their dearest hard-working time-giving friends, be sure of our constant and eager wish to visit and communicate with you. Your acquaintence is as always cherished. But a short but heartfelt visit, farewell, au revoir and I bid you peace."}, {"response": 193, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (07:34)", "body": "Peace."}, {"response": 194, "author": "geekman", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (02:57)", "body": "Shalom. Perhaps on Christmas Day we can all wish Henri Churchyard Esq. a Happy Birthday ."}, {"response": 195, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (10:56)", "body": "I didn't realise that HC's bday was on Christmas, Henry own up how old?"}, {"response": 196, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (21:59)", "body": "Give up, Laura...he won't tell..."}, {"response": 197, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (13:18)", "body": "Oh Henry please tell me how old you are!!! Merry Christmas to you !!"}, {"response": 198, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (05:45)", "body": "Laura, there's a graphic that expresses my feelings on this subject -- did you never happen to see it? --"}, {"response": 199, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (05:49)", "body": "Laura, there's a graphic that expresses my feelings on this subject -- did you never happen to see it? --"}, {"response": 200, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (10:06)", "body": "The graphic is delightful and reminds me of two items. First, obviously, the personnel at our local supermarket, but secondarily, a burning question. The watch fob in the above picture looks perfectly functional, one end must be attached to the clothing and the other end probably has a watch attached. However, in P&P2, the fobs all dangle petulantly from the tops of the men's pants but, nothing remotely large enough appears to be hanging from the end of the fob. So, to what is the unseen end attached nd where is the watch? Did women wear watches?"}, {"response": 201, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (14:58)", "body": "Here we go again..."}, {"response": 202, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (10:20)", "body": "Drat! The bane of my education, eternally late. Sorry to dredge up unpleasant memories."}, {"response": 203, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (21:53)", "body": "Being late Elaine is not that bad - I'm glad you were able to make it. Well, now I am here a Belated? Happy Birthday to Bernie, our favourite Chemistry Lecturer. I hope you had a lovely holiday, Bernie."}, {"response": 204, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (01:22)", "body": "That's right. Boxing Day. Happy Birtthday, Bernie!"}, {"response": 205, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (16:02)", "body": "Moved from sort of dupe topic, #102: ____ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ austen conference | Main Menu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (14:37) | Ian Davey (geekman) Happy Birthday Jane Austen It is 7:25 am here in Australia on the 16th December so I thought I might as well start the greetings. Have a great party folks - I'm off to work! 25 new of 25 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 1 of 25: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (15:14) * 3 lines Wow, it's Monday for you already! Any other Aussies celebrating? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 2 of 25: Kali Pappas (Kali) * Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (15:39) * 1 lines Go Jane. 221 years. I feel so callow... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 3 of 25: Anna (Anna) * Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (15:50) * 3 lines Somehow I find it difficult to feel really joyful on Monday morning (sorry guys) but I plan champagne for Monday night (how about 5am Mon EST) and possibly a maggot or two... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 4 of 25: Saman Moeed (Saman) * Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (17:53) * 3 lines Terry, It's been Monday here in New Zealand for nearly 12 hours! Unfortunately a combination of wonderfully warm weather and good exam grades meant that this festive occasion escaped my notice so I'm a bit behind on the celebrations! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 5 of 25: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (19:29) * 1 lines Well party on, Garth! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 6 of 25: Kali Pappas (Kali) * Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (19:33) * 1 lines Party on, Wayne! ;) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 7 of 25: Amy Bellinger (Amy) * Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (20:18) * 1 lines Want to try for about 10 pm eastern tomorrow night? Maybe we should invite some cousins: Austen-Lers, Firthlisters &c. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 8 of 25: Joan, too (jwinsor) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:00) * 1 lines Guess you really want to test the capacity of the Spring? [grin] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 9 of 25: Joan, too (jwinsor) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:00) * 3 lines ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 10 of 25: The Mysterious H.C. (churchh) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (07:16) * 2 lines Hate to be pedantic, J.W., but I've never seen that one before... What's the source for it being Jane Austen's silhouette? How does one make a self-silhouette anyway? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 11 of 25: Amy Bellinger (Amy) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (08:01) * 1 lines Aw, sources, schmourses. Joan go tell him to jump in the pond. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 12 of 25: The Mysterious H.C. (churchh) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (08:29) * 1 lines On this group, I'm not sure whether that's an insult or a compliment ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 13 of 25: Laura McCarthy (LauraM) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (11:17) * 1 lines Happy 221st Birthday Miss Austen. We cannot forget that Ludwig Van Beethoven was also born on this day. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 102 of 176 [austen]: Party Party Party - It's Jane Austen's 221st Birthday! Response 14 of 25: Katy Kendall (kendall) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (11:35) * 1 lines Happy Birthday, Jane Austen. Party-on fell"}]}, {"num": 110, "subject": "Husband: Bingley or Darcy?", "response_count": 125, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "clueless", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (14:22)", "body": "Yeah right that is such a lie!!!!!!!! Have you seen Darcy's bod. O my God! and he is so nice. Bingley is better for Jane thatt is for sure, but Darcy is like \"My dearest Loveliest Elizabeth\" And he is totally all over her. They are totally in love. They totally go together because She's impulsive E-mail me with your opinion."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (14:24)", "body": "Kim, consider yourself shot! ;) - Kali PS - You don't happen to be Kim Davis from Stockton, do you?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Kim", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (14:33)", "body": "Please pay no attention to my original posting. As Kali has informed me, this was already discussed. Oh well, I must have missed it. I only hope that I didn't miss anything juicy. For Kali: No, I am not from Stockton m Stockto n."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (15:20)", "body": "Whilst Darcy has all the charisma, I'm still not sure of the answer to this one; would Darcy smoulder at one over breakfast?? horrible thought!!!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (15:40)", "body": "It's okay, Kim...we can do it again...I was just being a samrta**, taking after my dear Auntie Cheryl...;)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (16:16)", "body": "Bingley is the quintessential Nice Guy, but I think he would get rather boring. Darcy strikes me as a person of more intelligence who's more perceptive about the world."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (18:11)", "body": "To be honest my main concern re Darcy would be can he maintain his new reformed self, or, having won the prize will he lapse back into his previous selfish and arrogant persona. With the best will in the world I don't think it's possbile to change one's basic personality, and even changing behavior patterns is very hard. I think Lizzy has the energy and optimism to cope with the occasional relapse, but I woudln't care to attempt it myself..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (07:39)", "body": "Darcy! I like a little smouldering and brooding melancholy sometimes, as I like rainy days in gorgeous landscapes sometimes. Bingley is too nonstop cheery and lilting. Darcy has unexplored depths and passion."}, {"response": 9, "author": "saskia", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (11:04)", "body": "I don't know. But I have to confess I have a fancy for Bingley. Not so compelling, however, anymore, that I am as sure as I was two weeks ago about preferring him to Darcy. You see, in the beginning I had really a crush on Darcy and didn't notice Bingley more than necessary. But then, I don't know why, Bingley caught my attention more and more, until I began watching P&P (almost)just for him. He is so kind! And really cheered me up when I was tired and/or sad. He's so kind! But Darcy is so exciting! I don t know anymore... It's just that I can imagine a family life with Bingley but not with Darcy and passion with Darcy, but not with Bingley..."}, {"response": 10, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (11:10)", "body": "]It's just that I can imagine a family life with Bingley but not with Darcy and passion with Darcy, but not with Bingley... Isn't that always the way?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (11:16)", "body": "What about marrying neither -- nobody. And keep them both as buddies."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (16:45)", "body": "Amy...have you lost it? Of course I'd marry Darcy. In a New York minute. In a heartbeat. Immediately. Before the question is even asked. No contest whatsoever. And it's not just beause I'm attracted to his aura...it's because he's the type of person I could appreciate living with day in, day out...He would be an equal, a challenge. I'm afraid someone like me would pulverize poor Bingley. - K"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (16:53)", "body": "Kali said: \"I'm afraid someone like me would pulverize poor Bingley.\" But I bet he would die with a smile on his face!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (01:43)", "body": "Re 83:11 All neat and tidy... Amy, you amaze me! Buddies indeed? How could you manage that? Well Bingley of course, he would be nice for chats and long walks, occasional video evenings and so on. But can you honestly say that your heart would not jump, if you answered the doorbell and Fitz was outside? And go for long walks together without wishing he would bump into you occasionally. And would you not be touched if you caught him ringfiddling? And would you be able to sit in a dark theater next to Darcy, watching a movie or listening to say The Marriage of Figaro with total concentration on the screen or scene?! No no this can not be the absolute truth."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (07:37)", "body": "Isn't the trick of passion its evanescence? In September when we viewed P&P2, my teenage daughter thought Darcy \"awesome\". A couple days ago, the only one she could talk about was Romeo. I asked her what happened to Darcy and she told me that Darcy was so \"last month\"."}, {"response": 16, "author": "saskia", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (10:42)", "body": "I am in favour of the buddy-option. Besides, I am already married. Before I saw P&P 2, of course, but what can one do? It would be fun to share a house with Darcy and Bingley and Jane and Lizzy and dear Georgiana and, though you may think him a little ill-timed, Josh from Clueless (I've a fancy for him too. I'm sorry!)."}, {"response": 17, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (11:26)", "body": "Kali: I'm with you. I think Darcy would be a more difficult person to live with, but much more challenging. Bingley would start to bore me in about a week."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Adi", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (12:29)", "body": "Kali, I'm confused: do you prefer Mr. Darcy or Mr. Knightley? you can't have them both, you know. you have to leave at least one of them to the rest of us..."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (14:32)", "body": "Ann2, Friends can make the heart beat faster,and those who raise passion can be friends."}, {"response": 20, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (15:34)", "body": "Hilary: What about the WHEN HARRY MET SALLY contention that men & women can never be friends?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (15:49)", "body": "contention that men & women can never be friends? Rubbish! (imho)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (16:39)", "body": "Adi, I'm having a little trouble making up my mind...I think I'd have to say Darcy at this point...younger, more energetic...but you know, who says that the qualities of each must be mutually exclusive? - K"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (18:33)", "body": "Actually Bingley is supposed to be (probably) several years younger than Darcy."}, {"response": 24, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (19:16)", "body": "contention that men & women can never be friends? they can as long as they are both head-over-heels in love with someone else!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (19:48)", "body": "DARCY! Ever since I have seen P&P2 and read the book he has been the ultimate man for me. Bingley is nice but I am like Kali; Men like Bingley would be intimidated by me. Only someone like Darcy would put up with me. We cannot forget Darcy's passion either. Bingley is sweet but I want more. . . Karen"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (00:59)", "body": "Re19 Hilary(or hat?) Friends can make the heart beat faster, and those who raise passion can be friends But the heartbeat can increase for *different* reasons can it not? I think I know what you mean when you experience that happy feeling of silent and complete understanding with a friend, male or female.But surely you agree that the HAB(heart attaching belly)-aching feeling from physical attraction is something else? And doesn't the passion have to vanish before the \"only friends times\" can start?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:17)", "body": "I think that Nora Ephron & Rob Reiner's point in HARRY MET SALLY was that men and women could never truly be _platonic_ friends, because the sexual angle would keep getting in the way. I'm not sure if I agree or not, since most of my male friends are gay!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (13:36)", "body": "'contention that men & women can never be friends? Rubbish! (imho)' - Anna' My opinion too. I've not seen 'Harry met Sally'. Ann2 Hilary(or hat?) - yes, the same. But the heartbeat can increase for *different* reasons can it not? - certainly. But surely you agree that the HAB(heart attaching belly)-aching feeling from physical attraction is something else? - yes it is. I think you can experience it with a friend. It makes life complicated, there's no doubt, but it happens. And doesn't the passion have to vanish before the \"only friends times\" can start? - no."}, {"response": 29, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (16:12)", "body": "I guess I saw a different point in Harry & Sally movie -- I thought they did become friends, then the sexual attraction entered in. They remained friends, however, even w/ the romance. I have two close male friends, no romantic/physical entanglements, and neither is gay. I can talk on the phone for 2-3 hours at a time w/ one of these guys -- in fact I've been trying to convince him to read JA's novels since he liked P&P2. Anyway, there are exceptions to all rules in human relationships."}, {"response": 30, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (16:24)", "body": "It's a tough call. I think it's pretty hard for men/women to put the sexual angle aside, even in a platonic relationship. Even poor Lizzie found herself unconsciously attracted to Darcy, a man she thought she hated. . ."}, {"response": 31, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (18:04)", "body": "Here is a great web site for laughing over platonic friendships: Excuses We Make for Ourselves It seems to me that since this is basically a man's world, we women need all the male support we can get, and so we try to turn would-be lovers into friends. Men, on the other hand, do not really need female friendship - at least not to the extent that women need male friendship. I think that most platonic friendships between men and women are based on the man's being at least a little bit in love with the woman, and the woman liking the man (but not as a lover) and needing the friend."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (18:21)", "body": "Ann, my response to Adi re: Darcy results from a comparison of Darcy with Knightley, not BIngley...;) Sorry! ;) - K"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (19:10)", "body": "If we're allowed our pick, how about Wentworth?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Kim", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (08:46)", "body": "Good point, Anna. The more I think of Wentworth, the more I like him"}, {"response": 35, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (11:34)", "body": "Kendall, you've completely nailed it! I think you need your own call-in radio show!!!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (14:01)", "body": "Hell, I think I'll get outta here and go eat woolly worms. I'm obviously out-numbered. Why don't we get down to the basics of genetic biology and say men want quantity and women want quality, because for each, its the best way of passing on their genes? I think this is more true than man/ woman politics."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (14:31)", "body": "Good point, Hilary...but I think the really right-thinking people of both sexes are interested in quality mates...what human being in his or her right mind would pass up a remarkable person for a piece of meat? ;) Certainly, people get caught up in situations from time to time, and lose track of reality and the unknown possiblities the future holds, but anyone who's rational would certainly have to prioritize...and at least try to make a logical decision regarding relationships. Does this make sense? ;{"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (00:16)", "body": "Thanks,Kali! It does. The biologists have answers for that too, of course!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (08:04)", "body": "Lovers or friends? Kendall: think that most platonic friendships between men and women are based on the man's being at least a little bit in love with the woman,... This brings up the question \ufffdWHAT IS THIS THING CALLED LOVE\ufffd! Does anyone have a short answer? Hilary: Why don't we get down to the basics of genetic biology and say men want quantity and women want quality, because for each, its the best way of passing on their genes? I wonder if it is a language matter, Hilary or if we just define friend differently. I don\ufffdt know what I call those men that have mental qualifications *and* are dangerously attractive. But they are something different from those friends, you just occasionally experience as beeings of the opposite sex. Kali: .but I think the really right-thinking people of both sexes are interested in quality mates...what human being in his or her right mind would pass up a remarkable person for a piece of meat? ;) But preferring quantity might mean that a man would like both, if he did not have to suffer the consequences?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "summit", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (09:33)", "body": "Don't forget that some women in life actually resemble Miss Piggy's attitude of \"so many men, so little time\" and operate from that premise, much like those men who also like quantity. Hollywood is riddled with them, male and female."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (13:41)", "body": "What?! Is *this* thing called love? What is this thing called, Love? What?! Is this *thing* called love? 'men that have mental qualifications *and* are dangerously attractive.... Ann2, it may be unusual, but I have a friend of many years standing who is like this."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:19)", "body": "Homo sapiens are not naturally monogamists! IMHO."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:19)", "body": "Homo sapiens are not naturally monogamists! IMHO."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:23)", "body": "After what Mr. Darcy went through I think he would be loyal to Lizzie."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:27)", "body": "I'm only saying that naturally , in the wilds of pre-historic nature, humans are not monogamists. It is society --which is artificially created--which makes them so. Today, and historically, polygamy is and has been widely practiced (even the rare case of polyandry ;-) )."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (20:56)", "body": "I have always enjoyed Katherine Hepburn's line from African Queen: \"Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we are here to rise above!\" (ooh, must go add African Queen to my fav movies list!)"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (04:01)", "body": "contention that men & women can never be friends? I was too busy last week to say why I disagree so strongly with this statement. I know it's true for some people, but it's not a universal truth; it's certainly not true for me. If you believe it it's a self-fulfilling statement, and I find it a depressingly limiting and limited way of looking at the world. Personally I could not accept as a lover anyone who could not be a friend. There are many basic drives that have the potential to prevent or destroy friendship; besides sex I there's the desire for attention, power and competition for certain limited resources. On occaision some of these have been said to prevent friendship between women (in a detective novel written by a woman i the 70's I came across the statement that single women could never be friends brecause they would be in competition for a husband - I disagree with that too). Very young children are totally self-centered and expect their wants to be met before anyone else is considered. Learning to modify some of one's own expectations to fit in with society as a whole and so that others can have some of their needs meet too is essential to adulthood in any functional society. Bonking aside, amongst my aquaintance, some people like both sexes, some are only comfortable with their own. I have seen this with heterosexual men and women and I know some gay men who have woman friends, and others who would be happier if they never had to meet another woman again. I also think that seperating the relationship between lovers from all others is in part an artificial distinction. There are varying degress of affection, sensuality and passion in all human relationships. \"Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we are here to rise above!\" bravo"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (13:17)", "body": "Anna, you're wonderful! I absolutely agree."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (13:22)", "body": "Hil, I thought you would be gone by now. Please have a great trip and think of us? You aren't going anywhere near the Bellinger River are you?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (15:46)", "body": "Amy, I think Hilary must have gone by now (Monday morning) do you mean Bellingen River as in Oscar and Lucinda? If so no; it's in North NSW, Hilary is going East from Melbourne to Adelaide"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (00:34)", "body": "Hilary is going East from Melbourne to Adelaide I should stop posting before coffee; Adelaide is west of Melbourne. (East, West, Port, Starboard; petty details anyway!)"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:17)", "body": "Anna! Very well put! That bit about varying degrees of affection, sensuality and passion..."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (23:00)", "body": "Christmas Eve! Adelaide, my step-sister's computer. Hi!!! I will try the chat room in a minute, but if I don't catch you there, happy Christmas, I\"m thinking of you lots."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (00:54)", "body": "Hi, Hil. Sorry I keep missing you."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (23:13)", "body": "I realize you will think I've totally lost it - but - I would prefer Col. Fitzwilliam to either Bingley or Darcy. If I had the wealth to attract him I think we could have a real fun time together. He's seems so comfortable and gossipey, has great sense of humor and has been described as a man of the world and that is usually equated with a great lover. My vote goes to him. I do believe Darcy's arrogance would resurface and Bingley would bore me to tears."}, {"response": 56, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (23:21)", "body": "Col. Fitz, my dear, happy thoughts indeed. Amazing how little is mentionned in the \"Making of\" Book, a little picture that's all..."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (23:26)", "body": "I don't know if I'd go quite that far, Caroline, but Col Fitz is very likeable and sympathetic as a character, and I grew to like him even more in P&P2."}, {"response": 58, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "What about the elusive Captain Denny? I think a previous thread discussed his desireability. What's wrong with him for one of the younger girls?"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "]What about the elusive Captain Denny? I think that in the book Denny was Wickham's closest friend and knew that he was intending to run off with Lydia, but not marry her. Since Denny didn't try to interfere I doubt that he would be good husband material, besides, his income was probably at the Wickham level (militia, not regulars); insufficient to support a family."}, {"response": 60, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (12:09)", "body": "Too bad. In P&P2, he was pretty cute!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (14:59)", "body": "Was amused by Anna's earlier comment that Darcy would probably smoulder at the breakfast tabel and doubted that she could take that. I was married for many years to a dark smouldering man whose looks would put Darcy in the shade. Anna, you are right. Eventually, you want to yell\"Quit going around smouldering. Lighten up!!!\""}, {"response": 62, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (15:00)", "body": "Scuse typo. Table, that is."}, {"response": 63, "author": "Meighan", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (18:05)", "body": "I am totally on Darcy's side here...he is the absolute best. He may not smile alot but when he does you just want to melt. One thing I noticed in the earlier postings is that someone said they didn't know if Darcy would keep his 'new' persona up. The thing is..he doesn't have to. He was always a nice guy to those that were close to him. He was just not too sociable to others. He was raised in high society and found himself thrown for a loop when he fell for Lizzie. I think he would make the best husband because he seems to have a good sense of humor when he chooses and definately passionate!!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (04:15)", "body": "I know this is beyond the scope of this topic, but I am of the mind that Mr. Knightley would make a perfect husband...just as good as Mr. Darcy..."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (08:16)", "body": "I think it would be obvivous that Mr. Darcy at least it is to me that he would want Lizzie to be a free thinker,Kali. To be able to make choices for their benefit if he couldn't. That is why they are better match. Mr. Knightley Mr. Knightley, I am sick of Mr. Knightley, he is a very good dancer"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "#64 Yes, Kali, you know I agree with you on this one. I could never be sick of Mr. Knightley!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (16:22)", "body": "Donna, I'm with you. I'll take Darcy, and the rest of you can have your Mr. Knightly!!"}, {"response": 68, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:28)", "body": "I do get the sense that Darcy & Lizzie are more intellectual equals than Emma and Mr. K. The considerable age difference between the latter couple is such that it might turn Pygmalion/Galeata sort of relationship."}, {"response": 69, "author": "summit", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "Some people quote the Bible; I find quotes in Shakespeare that can express what I need to say sometimes. Imagine this to be Lizzy (or we Darcy aficionados) explaining why she/we can admire and love this man/character so much. \"Since my dear soul was mistress of her choice, And could of men distinguish, her election Hath seal'd thee for herself: for thou hast been As one, in suffering all, that suffers nothing; A man that Fortune's buffets and rewards Hast ta'en with equal thanks: and bless'd are those Whose blood and judgment are so well commingled That they are not a pipe for Fortune's finger To sound what stop she please. Give me that man That is not passion's slave, and I will wear him In my heart's core,ay, in my heart of heart, As I do thee.\" HAMLET, III, ii The ironic filip to this is the phrase \"not passion's slave\": Darcy is quite passionate but without losing himself totally in the process. This capability reminds me of the Buddhist idea of being a calmly detached witness of what one's own self is, (and is up to). Darcy is more aware than Bingley could ever be, and that is why I would respect, love, and prefer him as a husband"}, {"response": 70, "author": "breezin", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (20:57)", "body": "Darcy's one sexy dude, man! He'd provide all the heat you'd need for years!"}, {"response": 71, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "That's a great quote, Wendy. I agree with you about Darcy being passionate without losing all sense or reason. He knows which woman in the world is right for him, and he goes after her with a vengeance!"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (07:17)", "body": "Amy2: I can't say that Lizzy and Darcy are intellectually better-matched. Emma is certainly intelligent, just less mature than Mr. Knightley. She already knows quite a bit of the world, though not everything! (Who could at age 21? I certainly don't!). The difference, Mr. Knightley puts very succinctly, is in \"the advantage of sixteen years' experience, and not being a pretty young woman and a spoiled child.\" He understands her faults, but he appreicates her progress and her potential. And the book proves that they can spar with just as much spirit as Lizzy and Darcy!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (00:13)", "body": "I can't say that Lizzy and Darcy are intellectually better-matched. You tell 'em, Kali. Emma and Knightley deserve more respect."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (02:01)", "body": "Yay, Susan!"}, {"response": 75, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "Nobody has mentioned the sisters-in-law! If for nothing else (ha!), Georgiana would be far superior!"}, {"response": 76, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (11:10)", "body": "Right, poor Jane, with relations such as Caroline & Louisa! Do you think they'd torture her much after her marriage? Or keep a respectful distance?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (19:28)", "body": "or perhaps a disrespectful distance"}, {"response": 78, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (21:53)", "body": "Wendy, I really appreciate the Shakespeare you cited. What a great fit! Thank you."}, {"response": 79, "author": "McKenna", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "I think Darcy very sexy, and that's important in a husband, but Bingley seems the more stable of the two. However, I respect Darcy taking responsibility for his actions and being open about them. Bingley just avoided Jane when he thought she was outside his grasp socially. He needed Darcy's approval to persue Jane, what a whimp! I'd take Darcy anyday."}, {"response": 80, "author": "sage", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (15:38)", "body": "Bingley is a wimp; Darcy is a hero. I respect Darcy's character. Darcy is true to his feelings when he realizes that he fell in love with Lizzy. He is mentally strong and reliable. His financial management skills seem to be excellent. He has integrity. And that constrained PASSION!!! It's probably hard to live with Darcy because he doesn't seem to open up much, but hey, with his good looks and fortune, I will just live in the other wing of Pemberly. :)"}, {"response": 81, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (15:43)", "body": "That's the nice thing about being of that class and age, Sage. I always thought living in a duplex would be a perfect way to be married or living almost together. These days of constant companionship are for the birds!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (20:06)", "body": "I always thought living in a duplex would be a perfect way to be married or living almost together. These days of constant companionship are for the birds! Too right, Amy. I've always contended that I'd like a man in my life, but I don't want one in my house."}, {"response": 83, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (20:27)", "body": "And don't some men feel the same way! No wonder the poor guys are always waxing cars or tinkering in the garage/workshop, yard, or basement. My grandfather used to go alone to \"Check\" the country house on weekends, too."}, {"response": 84, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "#79 Tammy Bingley just avoided Jane when he thought she was outside his grasp socially. He needed Darcy's approval to persue Jane I didn't get that impression. I think he was convinced (by Darcy and his sisters) that Jane didn't feel as strongly about him as he did about her, and for whatever reason, he didn't have the stuff to find out for himself. So yes, I guess in that way he's a wimp compared to Darcy, who will have Elizabeth at whatever the cost. #82 I've always contend ed that I'd like a man in my life, but I don't want one in my house. You've got it, Myretta! I love my husband, but it's great when he's gone for a few days. Katherine Hepburn once said that men and women are not suited to living together, and should just live next door to each other and visit now and then. She should know -- she and Spencer Tracy never actually lived together."}, {"response": 85, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "Besides, Bingley smiled with his mouth open! ewww"}, {"response": 86, "author": "candace", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (22:56)", "body": "Re: Best Husband -- How about this...The wealth and appearance of Mr. Darcy, the willingness to please of Mr. Binley, the awe of affection of Col. Brandon, and the way with words of Capt. Wentworth. Ah, the perfect male! Re: #82I've always contend ed that I'd like a man in my life, but I don't want one in my house. -- Do you guys really feel this way? I am truly astonished. Maybe you are confusing living with a man with living with a man? What I mean is that there is a difference between living under the same roof and thinking that you have to spend every minute together. Everyone needs their space, men and women alike. Most times my husband is doing things and I am doing other things (such as the many hours that I spend with all of you), we are under the same roof together but enjoying things separately. Even though he might not be a part of what I'm doing at the present, I love the fact that he is nearby. Then when we sit down together, we enjoy our time together. I truly don't mean to sound preachy...I really don't...so, please do not take it as such. Sometimes a comment is posted that I suddenly get a passionate need to express my opionion. This is such a time, as I have just arrived home after spending two days at a conference. :-)"}, {"response": 87, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (05:40)", "body": "Maybe you are confusing living with a man with living with a man? Trust me, Candace, I've been around long enough to understand the difference. I have never desired to spend every minute with any person. You are fortunate in the man you live with. Not all have that same experience."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "I do love my husband and enjoy his company, but I also love when he's gone and I have time to myself. There's an episode of \"Mad About You\" that perfectly expresses my feelings: Jamie has gone to spend a few days with her father and Paul sees her off with all the appropriate \"will miss you terribly\" language, then he shuts the door behind her, surveys the apartment, and breaks into an impromptu jig, singing gleefully, \"I have it all to myself, all to myself, all to myself!\" That's what I'm referring to that feeling that I don't have to worry about anybody but me for awhile."}, {"response": 89, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "M 87: Not all have that same experience. Like playing russian roulette sometimes, no? What amazes me is to be able to spent time on your own and thus growing apart from your mate, resourcing yourself to new things and then remeeting this other significant one and still finding a deep understanding while still going in the same direction, moving side-by-side on the same road. If this is it, it is very very fortunate. Who knows how long it may last, our wish is usually for ever."}, {"response": 90, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "re living with men; I was wondering if living with another adult woman would be any easier? My man and I live together and successfully pursue some shared and some seperate interests, and I too enjoy time to myself when he goes away; being totally selfish and not having to consider anyone else's needs at home for a rew days. Living with someone else necessitates considering their needs as well as one's own; it's not gender dependant so I don't think living with another woman would be any easier than with a man."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (22:13)", "body": "Anna, does not being married help with any cultural expectation to be always together?"}, {"response": 92, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (01:34)", "body": "Your excuse please for breaking the flow.. but I have a decided opinion about a life with Bingley, naively happy (such a word??)and consenting as he is, would be a torment to be married to . Not quite the thing for decision making and almost helpless in his own affairs - says in book he writes letters so badly, cos his thoughts flow so fast, he cannot capture it all. And when he finally purchases an estate, it's closeby to Darcy's - yes, so the dream of the 2 sisters were at last fulfilled - but wouldn t such a man, almost without originality and imagination, be a touch 'weak'?."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (06:07)", "body": "] but wouldn t such a man, almost without originality and imagination, be a touch 'weak'?. __ For us, who all identify with Lizzy more or we would not love the story so much. But for Jane... he seems just the thing. (To me anyway.)"}, {"response": 94, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (16:38)", "body": "re 91; Amy whilst the cultural expectation of being always together may in some cases make it easier for a woman to live with a man, because she has always expected to do so, it may make the less socialised even more claustrophobic as if she feels her choices are limited by other peoples expectations rather than by her own wishes. This less of a factor nowadays than previously as the alternatives increase. I've never tried living with another woman for any length of time so I'm in no position to make a definitive statement, I was just responding to what I understood to be the suggestion that men were harder to live with than women. Cultural expectations and personal space aside I suspect that for most people a lover is easier to live with than anyone else who is not a blood relative (and often easier than many of the them)."}, {"response": 95, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (17:54)", "body": "You know, despite the trouble and the work and headaches, I find my children the easiest of all to live with. I count my blessings every single day that I am in my own little family now and my own home where everybody loves each other. But I guess what I was driving at, Anna, none too clearly, was this: it seems a little more acceptable to take time off from a live-in than from a spouse."}, {"response": 96, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (19:38)", "body": "] it seems a little more acceptable to take time off from a live-in than from a spouse. to most of society I guess it is so; one reason why I'm not married... I'm not surprised you find your kids the easiest to live with; even now I get along better sharing a house with my mother than with any of my girlfriends; afer all, many of my habits I picked up from her ;-)"}, {"response": 97, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:54)", "body": "Put my mother and I in a house together for more than a week and we tear each other's hair out. I've lived in lots of different platonic sharing arrangements, with two other women, one other woman, a man, a woman and a man. etc. I've been really lucky - no major disasters and some of the total strangers I have shared with have become my really good friends. It's important to have strong and clearly understood mutual basic ground rules. The last two houses I shared we each had our own bathroon and this was a major help in the house sharing process. I don't actually know that I would be happy at this stage living completely alone - though it's nice to have the place to yourself occasionally. Having a large and comfortable and private space to retreat to is essential. I think I'd want this even in a marriage. :-)"}, {"response": 98, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:56)", "body": "I think that should be \"my mother and me\" I never did grammar...."}, {"response": 99, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (22:18)", "body": "Kate said: Having a large and comfortable and private space to retreat to is essential. I think I'd want this even in a marriage. :-) Actually, this is what I was trying to get at in my post about living together vs. living together. IMHO, I believe that privacy is an essential part of a successful relationship. My husband and I agreed very early on that each partner must respect the fact that the other may need space and it is not a reflection of \"I don't love you\". This is what I ment about my husband doing the things that he needs to do while I do the things that I need to do, wheather this means...side by side...in differe t rooms...or even elsewhere. I do enjoy the times that I am alone in the house or away with my girlfriends, this only makes the time that my husband and I spend together even more valuable and enjoyable. We are not joined at the hip, but we share a home and our lives."}, {"response": 100, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (23:10)", "body": "]it seems a little more acceptable to take time off from a live-in than from a spouse. It depends on the understanding of the two parties concerns and the general cultural basis that prevails. Culture varies tremendously from one place/social milieu/etc. to another... BTW my comment is meant regardless of male/female gender, a personnal belief. And oh I agree with you Amy, our kids are so easy to live with, is this unconditionnal love? and why aren't we allowing it with our supposed equals?"}, {"response": 101, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (00:40)", "body": "] And oh I agree with you Amy, our kids are so easy to live with, is this unconditionnal love? and why aren't we allowing it with our supposed equals? ____ I don't know, Johanne. Maybe it's this: there is a measure of \"I wish you were different\" between parent and child, but it's okay. The feeling can exist along with tons of love. When your partner feels this way it hurts more. It's scorn, and takes up the place once occupied by love."}, {"response": 102, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (07:33)", "body": "with our parents/kids, we live with what we get - but our \"choice\" seems to be tied in with the fear of its changing, having been wrong, the chosen one's selecting another,...yeah, the unconditional thing"}, {"response": 103, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (15:20)", "body": "It struck me how the Collinses' marriage has exactly these features- of a large enough house, couple spending time in different rooms busily and contentedly, etc. We may decry the rationale of their marriage initially, and find at least Mr. Collins to be a bit ludicrous and certainly unromantic, yet they DO seem to be a rather well-adjusted pair and living along some of our own guidelines, no?"}, {"response": 104, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (16:20)", "body": "] rather well-adjusted pair and living along some of our own guidelines, no? __ Good point, Wendy. But... but. but.....but"}, {"response": 105, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (16:37)", "body": "] rather well-adjusted pair and living along some of our own guidelines, no? __ [Amy]Good point, Wendy. But... but. but.....but _____ But, I do not think that Jane Austen wanted us to like Mr Collins, or to think that Charlotte made the right decision in marrying him. I suppose we can, however, repect the fact that Charlotte is making the best of her situation. (Still, when I think of them in bed, it does make my skin crawl!)"}, {"response": 106, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (18:49)", "body": "Exactly so: Miss Austen ironically showed us the Collinses, a probably even then realistic marriage, with a shake of her spinster's head AND then proceeds to shower more favorable descriptions and romance on other couples, without ever showing us how such \"better\" couples would survive the ordeals of actual daily married life and keep up that idyllic passionate and sentimental fervor... maybe because even she, JA, did not know if/how such was done successfully for long... (I am naturally playing the devil's advocate here, having myself dared all for love and marrying a man against parental wishes, etc.; we are still married today, after several other sibling marriages have foundered on both sides, though it takes great commitment and constantly further maturing to do so. Love is wonderful, and a child can help it bloom even more, but we too find the need for a little time apart in the days' togetherness.)"}, {"response": 107, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (20:21)", "body": "Was the Collins' marriage so different from the Bennet's (only rather reversed)?"}, {"response": 108, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (20:37)", "body": "The Collins' didn't have what I suppose there was at first : lust"}, {"response": 109, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (20:41)", "body": "Mrs Bennet was supposed to have been a beauty."}, {"response": 110, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (20:43)", "body": "oh yeah, good point ewww - the thought of anyone lusting after Mr. Collins - ewwww Actually, in P&P2, Mary seems to be obviously enraptured by everything he says, seems to be dashed when he asks Lizzy for the first dances, probably the closest thing to lust any woman would ever feel toward him"}, {"response": 111, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (00:15)", "body": "Ok! Somebody get the DUCK TAPE!!"}, {"response": 112, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (16:55)", "body": "I know this has come up on the Board before, but I do wonder how Darcy and Lizzy fare AFTER their marriage. With such diametrically opposed personalities, could they really live Happily Ever After? Or is this where romance fiction leaves off, and reality begins. . ."}, {"response": 113, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (18:13)", "body": "I know this has come up on the Board before, but I do wonder how Darcy and Lizzy fare AFTER their marriage. With such diametrically opposed personalities, could they really live Happily Ever After? Or is this where romance fiction leaves off, and reality begins. . . __ Oh good, Amy2. Let's do a new topic on this. I am afraid I have an idea or two some will not like."}, {"response": 114, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (18:41)", "body": "Mr and Mrs Collins had no real regard for each other, beyond convenience, isn't that the material point?"}, {"response": 115, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (19:07)", "body": "#113 I know this has come up on the Board before, but I do wonder how Darcy and Lizzy fare AFTER their marriage. With such diametrically opposed personalities, could they really live Happily Ever After? Or is this where romance fiction leaves off, and reality begins. . . My reluctant vote is that reality will set in, with all its attendant problems. This was discussed somewhat in \"The Happiest Couple in the Whole Austen Valley\" thread in the Austen Archives (actually, maybe it's still active, just not being posted to)."}, {"response": 116, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (19:07)", "body": "Amy2: I know this has come up on the Board before, but I do wonder how Darcy and Lizzy fare AFTER their marriage. With such diametrically opposed personalities, could they really live Happily Ever After? Or is this where romance fiction leaves off, and reality begins. . . My own feeling is that they fare very well after their marriage. Once their big lesson is learnt (his re: not being so proud, hers so prejudiced) they are open to each other. He learns to share his concerns with Lizzie, while she learns how to fit into his upper-class world from him. I think they really do support, help, and enjoy each other. All the various sequals that have him not telling her his plans rather annoy me--I'm especially thinking of Tennant's Pemberley and the second book. I think he is glad finally to have a confidante and would therefore be unlikely to keep anything from Lizzie. I can even see them happy in old age, sharing their memories together. Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic - but that's my opinion and I'm sticking with it."}, {"response": 117, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "Brava, Inko! I agree---what makes P&P so perfect is that two strong characters adapt in a manner in which both change for the better, yet neither is humbled. The only way Lizzie and Darcy could have had an unsuccessful marriage is if Lizzie had (for,I suppose, mercenary reasons) accepted Darcy's first proposal. Without the changes both underwent that would have been a doomed marriage! Imagine, she would have not realized his worth and he would have considered his marriage a degradation. Not at all co ducive to connubial happiness!"}, {"response": 118, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (21:03)", "body": "[ I think he is glad finally to have a confidante and would therefore be unlikely to keep anything from Lizzie.] I am of this view, as well. I really think what he was (maybe even unconsciously) 'looking for' was someone to be intimate with, and she is just such a person. Further, this couple more than many is very likely to deal with 'reality' without a great deal of trouble."}, {"response": 119, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "Yes, they dealt pretty successfully with the reality of Lydia's \"infamous elopement\" and the unpleasant attributes of many of their intimates -- Mrs. Bennet, Sir William Lucas, Mr. Collins, Lady C., etc. But with one partner so naturally high-spirited and prone to satirizing everything, and the other basically \"grave & serious\", WILL THEY be able to get along on a daily basis? Or will they get on each other's nerves? I do wonder. . ."}, {"response": 120, "author": "sld", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "I don't think Elizabeth will get on Darcy's nerves. He seems to me, in his being so drawn to her for instance, to WISH to be around someone more outgoing and witty. That does not mean that he will ever be that way himself, but some of us do not need or wish to be around someone just like ourselves. I certainly do not think the Elizabeth/Darcy combination is in anyway incompatible. If anyone of the two is likely to get on anyone's nerves, it is more likely that Darcy will get on Elizabeth's. But we know that she is of a disposition to be very accepting of people the way they are overall. I am sure there would have been times when Jane got on her nerves, and certainly her mother and younger sisters did. But this never caused her general discontentment."}, {"response": 121, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "I'm thinking of instances were Darcy wishes to be serious, and Lizzie might be making light of a subject he thinks is \"inappropriate.\" Just grasping here. . ."}, {"response": 122, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (15:13)", "body": "Amy2: I'm thinking of instances were Darcy wishes to be serious, and Lizzie might be making light of a subject he thinks is \"inappropriate.\" Just grasping here. . . Lizzie had a very strong instinct for what is serious and what isn't; she noticed all her family's improprieties when they occurred, though she might not have given them so much weight at Darcy did, since she was used to them. Also, she knew exactly what Lydia's elopement meant for her family. I don't think Darcy would ever have any complaint about her being inappropriately frivolous!"}, {"response": 123, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (20:15)", "body": "I'm thinking of instances were Darcy wishes to be serious, and Lizzie might be making light of a subject he thinks is \"inappropriate.\" Just grasping here. Well, did she show herself to be annoying in the book - make light of something when another person was in ill humor and in to mood for it? This all goes to judgment and maturity, I think."}, {"response": 124, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (10:49)", "body": "In her relationship with Darcy, I think their differing feelings contributed to this. When they talk about the nature of evil at Netherfield, he's quite serious & uncomfortable; she really doesn't care, because \"she's never desired his good opinion.\" Likewise, at Rosings, I think he's seriously trying to determine if \"50 miles of good road\" is too long a distance to be settled from her family -- he's quite serious & worried about the subject; she couldn't care less, and only applies it to her friend Cha lotte. Not that I fault her for this: it's just that he's coming from the P.O.V. of a man in love; she, of a woman who can't stand him."}, {"response": 125, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:46)", "body": "Also, Amy, at Rosings Lizzie is thinking of Jane and Bingley (at Netherfield) being too close to Longbourne. She had no idea that Darcy had designs on her; she couldn't stand him and thought he felt the same way about her. At Netherfield, I think she was just trying to prick some holes in his \"pride\" which everyone had noticed at the first assembly. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 112, "subject": "The Bennets: A Credible Family?", "response_count": 22, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (08:10)", "body": "I can accept Mary - I have seen teens deliberately chose an area in which to excel. Mary is too plain and socially clumsy to compete with her sisters, so she chooses to be accomplished. She works so hard. It is a pity nature (or Mr. Bennet) could not have given her a little help Jane - that's another story. I love her. Her generosity has not encumbered her with difficult or tiresome friends. Like Melanie Hamilton Wilkes, she is kind and understanding with everyone - see dignity in everyone - but manages to hold herself apart from the errors of the people she defends so we know that there is a strong core of unspoken resistence to folly and meanness. I cannot explain Jane. I have known people like that - one was an only child about whose family I know nothing, the other two were \"second children\" in difficult families. The \"seconds\" had learned by \"horrible example\" not to behave like the older sibling and perhaps learned patience and forbearance because of their need to love their difficult parents. At the moment, I like the idea that Mr. and Mrs. Bennet were better parents to their first two little daughters than they were to any of their children by the time the novel opened. Things happen to change us all. The Bennets started out sure that they had no financial problems that could not be resolved. Jane and Eliz arrive, beautiful, bright, engaging. The elder Bennets are enchanted and loving. Then fretful, awkward Mary and fretful whiney Kitty arrive. Still no son. Mr. and Mrs. B are getting orried - the household is growing large and confused. Tension and division begin to dominate family communication. the clone arrives. Mr. B. is alienated. Mrs. B has found her consolation prize."}, {"response": 2, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (11:52)", "body": "I was under the impression that Jane and Lizzie spent alot more time with the Gardiner's then their younger siblings. This alone could explain their differences in regard to society than their sisters."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (20:07)", "body": "Katy, I love your description of the arrival of the Bennet children, and I think you have a good point there. But, as Candace, says, I've always thought that Jane and Lizzie had the benefit of Mrs. Gardiner's advice and example and were better as a result of their frequent visits to London."}, {"response": 4, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (20:50)", "body": "Inko and Candance: Of course you are right about London. I am sure the Gardiners friends in London are superior to the Merryton set. Jane and Elizabeth must have gained much poise in that environment. But where did Jane get her loving disposition?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (06:57)", "body": "I think you already have answerd that qustion. Remember how the gardined COULN'T think ill of Wickham, even after he and Lydia ran away? well, isn't that sort of Jane behavior?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (12:42)", "body": "The Gardners and Jane - yes you have made the link. I have know people like Jane: they try to see good in every one, but they seem to choose the best people for their intimate acquaintances. There is an unspoken discrimination in their judgment that preserves them from being imposed on by unworthy people. In fact - perhaps that is the key to Jane's sweetness: most of us are so afraid of being imposed upon that we look for error and weakness everywhere. The Janes and the Gardinars and the Charles Bingleys do not have that fear. Yes, Charles' sisters do seem to impose but perhaps, has head of the family, he has a duty to allow such imposition."}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (14:23)", "body": "Another psychological factor to consider in judging the five Bennett girls is that siblings often react against other siblings if they don't like what they see. For example, I was a straight-A student, Valedian, blah blah; my sister determined NEVER to try in school, because she felt she couldn't compete. I didn't care about fashion; she was a total clothes-horse. So I can understand how plain Mary would retreat into books; and how the younger B's turned out silly & flirtatious, cause they probably fou d L & J too boring for their tastes..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (14:28)", "body": "Mr. Bennet predicts that ``You are each of you so complying that nothing will ever be resolved on, so easy that every servant will cheat you, and so generous that you will always exceed your income.''"}, {"response": 9, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (16:02)", "body": "Henry reminds us that Mr. Bennet predicts for Jane and Bingley that ``You are each of you so complying that nothing will ever be resolved on, so easy that every servant will cheat you, and so generous that you will always exceed your income.\" I thought of that as I wrote my last. At the moment, I am inclined to think that it is his own fear of being imposed upon (he is imposed upon constantly) that he is voicing. My fellow cynics and I are terrified of being taken advantage of, and we are sure if we ever let down our guard that we would be. We cannot imagine that open, kind people can survive, but they do - and survive very well."}, {"response": 10, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (10:40)", "body": "Even in L.A.?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (18:20)", "body": "I think that the sheer number of children, coupled with the disintegration of Mr. and Mrs. Bennet's relationship, caused the last three daughters to suffer maladjustment. As stated earlier, Mary latches herself onto books, abandoned midstream in her developement as is Kitty, while almost no attempt whatsoever is made with Lydia. I see Mrs. Bennet, upon Mr. Bennet's retreat from parental responsibility, indulging Lydia (the baby), while Mr. Bennet takes refuge in the achievements he has made in his oldes daughters. Mary is thereby left to her books, and Kitty - intransigent as she is, abandoned at an even more critical moment, is swayed in the direction of her mother and younger sister."}, {"response": 12, "author": "donr", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (15:17)", "body": "\"Variation in the Bennet girls character and personalities\" Although this is an old discussion topic, often read by me, I have yet to share my thought with you. So here I go. As the father of five daughters, I am not the least surprised by the Bennet girls' widely differing personalities. In fact, I have found that to be one of the joys of bringing so many daughters into the world. Moreover, on the basis of my friendship with several other parents of large families, I would expect such a variation, not only in appearance, but also in character. It is very easy for me to identify with Mr. Bennet's behavior as a father. To be sure, he makes all the mistakes so common to most of us: leaving all too much of the day-to-day child-rearing responsibilities to his wife, showing a favoritism to one child (who no doubt most closely resembles him in character and is recognized as such by the other children), and, upon arousement to action, responding with bluster and threats that all too often are not followed up. On the other hand, Mr Bennet, does partici ate in the family gatherings (at meal time and at their leisure in the parlor). He does listen and talk to his daughters. And most importly, he does come across as one who loves his family (albeit they are silly girls like all the rest of them) and as one who is interested in them. As for Mrs. Bennet, I have very little to say other than she is his wife and as such deserves Mr Bennet's respect and support."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (00:48)", "body": "Thanks Don...reality check. Were we getting too obnoxious and nitpicky in our psychoanalyses? ;)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (08:15)", "body": "As I was tidying up in my kitchen, my thoughts went back to a lovely scene from FoF:s creative list. It made me think of Lizzy's not being able to ride, and Jane only performing it once on a rather large horse. They had no riding-horses at Longbourne or just one for Mr Bennet? How was it that lively Lizzy, so fond of outdoor exercise, had never learnt? And why could Jane do it? Though she did not appear to be all that good at it. So much for my equastrian ponderings. ( Notice my self control on this matter. ) Next minute, I was really surprised to experience a feeling of gratitude towards Mrs Bennet (Imagine that!!) She is the actual cause of Lizzy's muddy walk with all it's proceedings. Were it not for the arts of Mrs Bennet, Lizzy and Darcy would not have spent several days under the same roof. And he would not have had the chance to enjoy so much of her easy, witty conversation, to be intrigued by her obvious indifference towards him and not have had all those hours to secretely watch her from behind his book, his billiard cue, his towels or whatever... Have we been giving the credit that is due- despite the low and scheming nature of her mind - to the always sligthed Mrs Bennet."}, {"response": 15, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (09:54)", "body": "I too, have given some thought to why Lizzy does not ride. It probably starts with the fact that her father may not have a lot of interest in doing it just for sport. You never hear about him going riding - he probably rides only for necessity. So Lizzy, having always loved playing out of doors as a small child. never had an interest sparked for getting on a horse to go somewhere. If the family had only one mount, it would not have been conducive to learning to ride, even if she were interested (and i probably why Jane doesn't do it well). Then when she is older, she may not have been as comfortable with the idea, so didn't even attempt to learn as much as Jane did. (Jane's not riding well also leads me to believe that she didn't learn until the she was older - I can't ski as well as my seven year old neice.) Lizzy herself didn't care one way or another whether she could ride or not, and she didn't care what others thought of her for not being able to. And it might not even have been a big deal to others. I don't recall 'riding' listed amoung the many accomplishments of a young woman listed by Caroline and Darcy. But I am convinced that our dear Lizzy is not so afraid as to not be unwilling to learn, with the right inducement - riding out with her husband over his vast property."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "Excellent points, Sharon. Parental encouragement is a big part of it, I think. Mr. Bennet probably never gave much thought to getting his daughters riding lessons. After all, how was he to afford it? Horses can be a dangerous and expensive experiment. I had to bribe, beg, and bully my dear mother, at the age of seven, to let me try riding. For twelve years, she paid through the nose for lessons. And watched my mess up my face in a jumping accident. But I wouldn't have given up the experience for a ything! Perhaps if Lizzy and Jane had been adamant about riding, he would have acquiesced, but since they weren't, why should he have pressed the issue?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (19:19)", "body": "I too have always wondered why Lizzie never rode, given her bent for healthful exercise. I suppose if the Bennets had been able to afford her a horse of her own, she would have become an excellent rider. Do y'all think that the elegant Bingley sisters were horsewomen, or was anything but a carriage beneath them?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "donr", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (22:54)", "body": ""}, {"response": 19, "author": "donr", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "I didn't mean to hit the submit response ; but now that I have done it, I feel obligated to respond. \" ...when Jane testified such concern in parting with her that Miss Bingley was obliged to convert the offer of the chaise into an invitation to remain at Netherfield \". It doesn't seem to matter whether Elizabeth rode horseback or walked to Netherfield; she still would have been invited to stay. The question \"Why didn't she learn to ride a horse?\", in view of her penchant for athletic activities, is an interesting thread."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (23:34)", "body": "WE are all allowed to create \"new topics\" Donald. Go for it!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (21:26)", "body": "As P&P2 shows Mr. Darcy as such an experienced horseman and the book depicts Lizzy as no horsewoman...Can you not evision Mr. Darcy singing to Lizzy the Jackson Browne song \"Let me swing you up into the saddle...Honey, can I introduce you to my red-neck friend\"."}, {"response": 22, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:21)", "body": "LOL, Candace! True, maybe Darcy would spring for one of those London masters once he & Lizzie are married, and she can enter show jumping competitions! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 113, "subject": "Jane and Bingley", "response_count": 28, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (05:27)", "body": "It's the smile; Bingley has the appeal of a really friendly puppy. If you watch the background scenes with Bingley, especially at Pemberley, he seems to be fairly consistently considerate and friendly. In many ways I agree with the recent poster (I'm sorry; I forget who, and it's too late to search) who suggested that for the long haul Bingley might make a better husband than Darcy."}, {"response": 2, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (06:47)", "body": "Bingley is refreshingly honest and very affable chappie who is not only approachable but also forward with people. He's the sort of bloke who'd make few enemies, the sort of man most fathers would be happy to see their daughter marry. Bingley also has an energy that's lacking in Darcy in the early stages. Perhaps that is the vigour and enthusiasm of youth, but it's probably also his personality that overcomes all adversary including Darcy's reservation of Jane. It is no doubt his smiles and his friend y manner that disarms the sisters and for them to willingly accept his invitations at the ball."}, {"response": 3, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (07:27)", "body": "I loved his last conversation with Darcy in P&P2: B: \"Do I have your blessing, then?\" D: \"Do you need my blessing?\" B: \"No, but I would like to know I have it, all the same.\" And his simple, non-combatitive attempt to steer Caroline away from her determined Elizabeth-bashing at Pemberly: B: \"I think that.....\" And Caroline just goes right on .. putting nails in her own emotional coffin, as it were."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (20:20)", "body": "Katy, I've always wondered about Bingley's last conversation with Darcy. In the A&E program notes, Crispin Bonham-Carter said he was glad that Andrew Davies had allowed Bingley to make a journey of his own and to grow up. Yet that last \"Do I have your blessing\" makes him seem like a son asking his father for his blessing and not grown up at all. I think it would have been better if he'd just told Darcy, \"I'm going over to Longbourn to ask Jane to become my wife. I hope I have your approval.\" It would have shown that he'd made up his own mind regardless of Darcy's approval or not. Maybe it's nit-picking, but he still seemed so very young and puppyish to me at that point."}, {"response": 5, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (20:25)", "body": "Inko: but Bingley has indeed made up his own mind. He says he WANTS D's blessing but he does not NEED it. This is more independence than JA allowed him to show."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (00:46)", "body": "#1: Bingley has the appeal of a really friendly puppy. An excellent description IMHO. I think Bingley's asking Darcy for his approval is just an extension of his wanting to be on good terms with all the people who are important to him. Had Darcy said no, I fully believe Bingley would have said, \"That's too bad, Darcy; I would have liked to have had it, but it will not affect my actions.\" He's just a thoroughly likable guy."}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:16)", "body": "I don't know -- Bingley was so easily led, I honestly wonder if he would have married Jane had Darcy still been disapproving. Did he have the backbone for it?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:21)", "body": "The thing is, if Darcy still disapproved, he wouldn't have made the confession about his interference would he? He would have left Bingley in the dark about Jane's real feelings and her being in town!!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "I always thought Darcy just felt like he had to come completely clean. If he was going to marry Elizabeth, how could he possibly object to Bingley's marrying Jane, now that he knew she really did return his love? And yes, I think Bingley, having learned that Jane's being in town was kept from him and that she did try to see his family (she visited the sisters, remember) was hellbent on having her before something else happened!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "The Lydia and Wickham elopement gives him an excuse,because he had to get them married first. After that he knew what he had to do for Bingely and Jane and for Elizabeth so she would forgive his interference. He said in his second proposal \"You are too generous to trifle with me. If your feelings are still what they were last April,tell me so at once. My affections and wishes are unchanged; but one word from you will silence me on the subject for ever.\" He still wasn't that sure of his fate with E izabeth and it didn't matter,because he knew he repair his friendship with Bingley."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (18:16)", "body": "This is what I think Darcy told Bingley. Darcy Confesses"}, {"response": 12, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (18:26)", "body": "Ann -- that was wonderful. It seems very real to me. I shall have to read it again and again. Thank you very much for adding to our pleasure."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "Oh yes, Ann, I can see Darcy staring into the fire, kicking at the logs, and getting his confession out! A heartwarming picture of real friendship between two men. I like it very well indeed!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (02:04)", "body": "Excellent! And fun!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (18:39)", "body": "I guess my question is: IF Darcy hadn't confessed his interference to Bingley, would B. have had the backbone to determine Jane's feelings for him on his own?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (18:44)", "body": "To defend Bingley just a little ... he had been told that the girl he loved did not care about him but would marry for the advantages it would give her. \"Backbone\" may not be what is lacking so much as confidence in his own judgment."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (00:40)", "body": "I think Bingley would have gone on being convinced that Jane didn't care for him as much as he wished; he was too easily convinced of this by his faith in his friends and family."}, {"response": 18, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "I guess that's what I mean by \"backbone\" -- he lacks the ability to trust his own instincts. (Think I've been unduly influenced by the current re-issue of STAR WARS?)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (13:05)", "body": "Let me tell you how fun it was to take my little guys to Star Wars. Big fans, both of them -- 8 and 12 years old -- but had never seen it on the big screen. When the Millenium Falcon first hits light speed? Whooooosh! If you could bottle those kids' faces at that moment --- you'd be set for life."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "Amy - I agree. When I first saw \"Star Wars\" my boys were the ages of yours now and those faces were something to behold! Of course, we had to wait longer for the sequels - you can take them in a month or so!!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (11:04)", "body": "I saw the reissue in Westwood opening day. What a scene! We actually had a NEWS CREW in the back of the theatre filming us crazies in the audience! But getting back to Bingley. . .was the man so unable to ascertain his own (and Jane's) feelings that he was going to be _totally_ reliant on Darcy's version of events forever? Or not?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "My personal feeling is that Bingley would probably not have returned to Netherfield w/o Darcy's encouragement. Once he was there, however, and was seeing Jane again, I really think he would have decided he had to know how she felt -- he would have proposed even without Darcy's confession. As long as Darcy stayed around, though, I think Bingley tended to rely on his friend's opinion. (Low self esteem again? After all, his own sisters never paid any attention to him!)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:15)", "body": "I hate to say you're right, Kathleen. But what kind of a mate is a guy who doesn't even know he likes you until somebody else tells him so? Does this auger well for the future?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (14:51)", "body": "Bingley knows that he is in love with Jane. He just doesn't know that Jane is in love with him! He is too unsure of himself to rely on his own intuition."}, {"response": 25, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (15:39)", "body": "Isn't that kind of a problem?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:27)", "body": "It probably is a bit of a problem, but maybe one Bingley will outgrow. He is, after all, younger than Darcy, and has not had all the advantages of his friend. After marriage to Jane, I predict that of necessity Bingley will become his own man (and Jane's, of course). Besides, Darcy is used to being listened to -- by family, servants, tenants, and of course marriage-minded young ladies! Darcy would always assume he knows better, and that alone can carry a lot of weight w/ someone younger and less secure."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:33)", "body": "Darcy relied on his intuition and look what happen to him. He could not have been more wrong. Sort of ironic how that worked out,because if Bingley would have asked Jane she would have said yes. I think Darcy knew that she would say yes and for the wrong reasons. His \"best\" friend misled him and Bingley's friend was misled by himself. Hey, maybe Mr.D. should have asked Mr. Bingely for advice. Who does not rely on a best friends advice."}, {"response": 28, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (14:40)", "body": "Just read 'Darcy's Story'. This whole sequence of events is laid out very nicely by the author; at least it was to my satisfaction. She does a wonderful job of 'humanizing' Darcy as she traces his mental progression from Elizabeth's confrontation about Jane and Bingley during the first proposal to the point where he achieves Bingley's return to Netherfield in order to try and reunite them. Done 'very well indeed'. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 114, "subject": "incredibly dumb and stupid questions (for newbies)", "response_count": 74, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (15:18)", "body": "I've got one. How do I get to see the \"mini series\". Is it available at video stores? Is it going through re-runs in the States? Where did it originate. Remember, don't poke fun at me for this *incredibly dumb and stupid question\". OK?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "mich", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (15:26)", "body": "Terry, I've seen it at Block buster for rent. A&E is reshowing it but it's half over so you missed it by a about month. I have two copies and I would be happy to lend you one. let me know if your interested. Mich"}, {"response": 3, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (16:20)", "body": "Terry, The fact of the matter is that probably EVERYONE on this board has at least two copies and would be glad to loan you one. This goes for me, too. Myretta"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (16:41)", "body": "OK. I'll make arrangements to borrow one. Email me about this. I don't have cable (though I have satellite) so I don't get A&E. How many programs is the series?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (20:40)", "body": "Terry - I called my local Blockbuster, and they gave me an 800 number to call. They were able to look up which Blockbusters in my ZIP code carried the video. It has been distributed in a couple of different ways - I was able to find the three hour, 2 volume set. Just make sure they know its the A&E version that you want."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (21:07)", "body": "I was able to find the three hour, 2 volume set. Just make sure they know its the A&E version that you want. Terry, in all fairness you should be warned; it's in fact a five hour set in 2 volumes, or almost 6 hours if you get the 6 volume set. Make sure you have a comfortable chair!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (21:15)", "body": "Oops! Reason #477 why you should always double-check what you've written before hitting the submit button!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (21:15)", "body": "] in fact a five hour set in 2 volumes, or almost 6 hours if you get the 6 volume set ________________ And Terry, you may or may not ever get this, but we all wish it were longer. If you can stand it, watching will help you understand our private language. I look forward to seeing your first, \"Miss ___ is all politeness\" or \"And why should he not?\" or \"It is of little matter.\" Amy"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (22:24)", "body": "Wow, 6 hours, at extended play you could get the whole thing on one videotape. I'm a ways from mastering this jargon, but don't lose hope. Are you going to publish a bibliography of Jane Austen somewhere on this website? OK folks, it's time to ask that question that heretofore you been *too embarassed* to pose. Come on, ask it. You're safe here since this topic doesn't allow ridicule of unbelieveably naive or inance questions."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (22:52)", "body": "OK - how do I change my log-in 'pseudonym' (nothing actually pseud about it) to read 'Anna' instead of 'Anna Price' ? I went into the change preferences section and I thought I had changed it, but when I came back out it had reverted to the first version. How do I make the change stick? yours informally, Anna"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (23:03)", "body": "I question that I can't answer. Will you please pose this to Dave Thaler (the fellow who wrote this software) in the yapp conference?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (23:36)", "body": "OK folks, it's time to ask that question that heretofore you been *too embarassed* to pose. _____________ Oh man, if there is something we have not delved into because it is more embarrassing that the topics we have discussed... well I shudder to think. Can it be so? Have we any of us withheld anything? Amy"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (23:55)", "body": "I don't know. Who's holding back?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (23:56)", "body": "] I'm a ways from mastering this jargon, but don't lose hope. _______________ I just thought of the absolute perfect P&P line for a sysop. See new thread. Oozing drama from every pour, Amy"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (23:57)", "body": "] I'm a ways from mastering this jargon, but don't lose hope. _______________ I just thought of the absolute perfect P&P line for a sysop. See new thread. Oozing drama from every pore, Amy"}, {"response": 16, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (00:23)", "body": "] Anna: ] OK - how do I change my log-in 'pseudonym' (nothing actually pseud about it) to read 'Anna' instead of 'Anna Price' ? I went into the change preferences section and I thought I had changed it, but when I came back out it had reverted to the first version. How do I make the change stick? ] Terry: ] I question that I can't answer. Will you please pose this to Dave Thaler (the fellow who wrote this software) in the yapp conference? Well I can answer that one - i figured it out. I'll trade you 3 for one - does that sound fair? ;-) In order to get it to take, you have to resign from the conference and join all over again - which, of course, sets all your pointers back to the beginning again. So I ended up having to display everything all over again. So: 1. Is there any way to do what you can do in Caucus and just mark everything as seen? That way, people could read everything new, do the resign trick, mark everything seen, and not miss anything - OR have to displkay it all again. 2. You mentioned elsewhere that there is a way to get rid of those annoying unwanted paragraph breaks that get put into one's text if a paragraph gets longer than 5 or 6 lines long. How do you do it? 3. You also mentioned elsewhere that there is a way to attach a response to a specific posting. How is that done?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (08:35)", "body": "Interesting question, we used to use caucus as our software. If you have a shell account, you can type fixseen to make all items seem as if you've read them. Email me for a shell account, we give them away to folks who are frequent posters and contributors to this community. The paragraph thing is a systemwide setting that I have to look into. I'm not sure how you attach responses, you may want to pose this to Dave in the yapp conference."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (11:39)", "body": "Not only does the paragraph break, it also zaps one letter in the last word of the line that breaks! I find that very strange."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (16:46)", "body": "I have a really inane, beginner's question. The other day I tried to save part of the postings. Managed to do that, saved into my Wordperfect 6.1 for Windows 95, but then when I opened WPwin, it wouldn't read the document because it said it was in an \"unknown format\", and couldn't translate it. How can I save stuff I want and still be able to read it later?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (18:16)", "body": "Mine save as html files - you need to use your browser to read them. If it's netscape you go file open and select the file you want."}, {"response": 21, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (20:13)", "body": "My browser (Netscape) gives you a pop-up menu in the SAVE window that lets you choose to save either as plain text or html. If you are able to save the file as plain text, WordPerfect should have no problem with it."}, {"response": 22, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (20:34)", "body": "Ok - here are 2 more: How come if your are reading \"new\" postings\" and there is an imge that doesn't load, and you ask your browser to try to load it again, (just the image, not the page), if it fails to load, you are taken to the text entry window, skipping over the rest of the new messages and marking them all as seen, so they don't appear as \"new\" any more, and you can't go back and view them again without changing to \"all\" mode and re-displaying the entire topic again? (How's that for a run-on sentence?) Is there any way to go (back or forward) straight to a specific topic while reading new postings? For example, if I wanted right now to jump back to topic 8, how could I do that?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (20:39)", "body": "Re: Changing you name You don't have to go through any rigamarole if you are willing to always edit the \"Use Pseudonym:\" box when you post. Re: Bibliography Terry, I've got general Jane Austen bibliographies out the wazoo at the Jane Austen web site; start with http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janebblg.html"}, {"response": 24, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (20:42)", "body": "Joan, that's part of the whole \"excessive no-caching\" problem -- see my rant over in the \"HELP!!!\" topic."}, {"response": 25, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (00:46)", "body": "Ooooh - I did see, and echoed, your rant - I didn't realize that this was a related problem! It definitley needs fixing!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (01:35)", "body": "You don't have to go through any rigamarole if you are willing to always edit the \"Use Pseudonym:\" box when you post. that's what I've been doing, but it gets tedious"}, {"response": 27, "author": "geekman", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (03:35)", "body": "But Anna it can be fun too!!!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (04:00)", "body": "OK, can someone explain to me what a \"cookie\" is? My browser says that this site wants to make one each time I log on. What happens if I do or don't permit it?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (13:31)", "body": "A cookie is a way Dave's software tracks what you've read and you could probably get a more definitive answer by asking Dave in yapp. Dave is *very* responsive to making changes that folks ask for so, be forewarned, you'll probably get whatever you ask for in the new version. So, don't be shy, you can help make yapp a much better software program! Jan Wolter has also, I understand, written a whole slew of great utility add ons for yapp that we can look at installing. ONe is specifically to improve text formatting. Check out: http://www.izzy.net/~janc for more details about his add on utilities. Jan is a big fan of the bizarre virtual community world. How kooky to we have to get to attract Jan as a participant? Happy Thanksgiving everyone! There's a lot to be thankful for. I love this newly arrived community!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (16:18)", "body": "Thanks Joan, next time I save I'll try that pop-up window. Never noticed it before. Just goes to show what a complete novice I am about all this!!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (17:40)", "body": "Dirty word! I just followed the link to Jan's page, and then could not return to my \"place\" in this conference - it only returns to the text entry window, with no indication as to how many postings were stlll left to read, or how far back I needed to go in the \"redisplay\" field to get them back. (HC, I suppose this is also part of that same problem that you described so completely with all those !!!!!)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (17:50)", "body": "Incredibly stupid question about the Regency period. Starting new thread, sorry, \"topic.\" I will conquer this lingo. At least someone has changed it from \"item.\" Talk about a nondescriptive label. Amy"}, {"response": 33, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:19)", "body": "Yes Joan, once you have topic messages displayed, DON'T GO NOWHERE and DON'T DO NOTHING WITH THE BROWSER WINDOW unless you have read the messages on the page. If you need to go somewhere, open a NEW browser window..."}, {"response": 34, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:22)", "body": "Ah! An excellent suggestion! Why did that not occur to me? (Although IMHO that should not be necessary; not everyone will necessarily have that capability!)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:44)", "body": "In Internet Explorer you can right click on a link and save it as a bookmark for later."}, {"response": 36, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:53)", "body": "] Terry: In Internet Explorer you can right click on a link and save it as a bookmark for later. Not if you are a Mac user with no right mouse button. :-) (But you can copy the location and put it into a bookmark manually) Much more \"friendly\" though to be able to follow a link and return to where you were - this is the first web site I have ever visited where that was not possible!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (19:00)", "body": "You know what I wish MSIE had though? URL for image"}, {"response": 38, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (19:05)", "body": "Terry, \"coming back\" to a topic messages page NEVER works in Netscape, because all those \"no-cache\" directives mean that Netscape will _RELOAD_ the page again from Spring when you try to \"go back\" to it, and the software thinks that once you've accessed some messages, then you've already read those messages..."}, {"response": 39, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (19:09)", "body": "I am very glad that we have someone who thinks of these things and is excessively attentive to them. ;-)"}, {"response": 40, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (19:42)", "body": "] Terry: A cookie is a way Dave's software tracks what you've read and you could probably get a more definitive answer by asking Dave in yapp. I don't really care what he is using it for - I just want to know what one is - and why it is called a cookie. Seems that \"they\" might have given it a more meaningful name. The message pops up saying that someone wants to make one and do you want to permit it - well I never know what to answer because I don't know what one is."}, {"response": 41, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (19:45)", "body": "I've also been wondering why the \"new\" option doesn't \"stick\" - each time one logs on one is back again in \"all\" mode."}, {"response": 42, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (19:59)", "body": "The browser drops off little messages about you in your cookie jar or something like that so the next time you visit the website the website knows what's in your cookie jar (or something). Now talk about an uninformed answer that goes begging for a better one. There you have it."}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (20:02)", "body": "Per Amy's request, I just set up half a dozen folks here as shell users who will be helping with the interface. This is the dream team. You know who you are, I take it."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (22:17)", "body": "Joan ] I've also been wondering why the \"new\" option doesn't \"stick\" - each time one logs on one is back again in \"all\" mode. Joan, I was logging on via the bookmark I picked up from Amy's page; http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/all and was also getting \"all\" each time I logged on. I changed the url to; http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/all/new and that logs me on in \"new\" mode."}, {"response": 45, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (00:39)", "body": "Thank you so much Anna - why did I not think of looking at that myself? And Terry, I enjoyed your \"uninformed\" answer , but do hope that someone has a more detailed one to offer!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (01:10)", "body": "I may just have to launch a search for cookies."}, {"response": 47, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (01:18)", "body": "Well, I could do that, too - I'm just hoping that someone here already knows and will save me (us?) the trouble. :-)"}, {"response": 48, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (02:17)", "body": "One definition I found: A handle, transaction ID, or other token of agreement between cooperating programs. ``I give him a packet, he gives me back a cookie.\" The claim check you get from a dry-cleaning shop is a perfect mundane example of a cookie; the only thing it's useful for is to relate a later transaction to this one (so you get the same clothes back). Here's something pretty technical, the cookie specification: http://www.nord.de/pete/www/extensions/cookie_spec.html http://www.ids.net/~oops/tech/make-cookie.html http://www.politicsnow.com/views/netwatch/ Mostly, what you get when you search for \"cookies\" is chocolate chip recipes and \"better than sex cookies\" etc. But the above links should answer some questions. Particularly good, is the politicsnow page which deals with privacy issues."}, {"response": 49, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (02:20)", "body": "And the absolutely, insanely great cookie url: http://emf.net/~mal/cookiesinfo.html"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (07:12)", "body": "Hey, Joan, does it bother you a lot that this thing is termed a cookie. Too bad if it does, dear, because I fear you will not be able to doe anything about it now. ;) Amy"}, {"response": 51, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (13:49)", "body": "ME WANT COOKIE!!! ME WANT COOKIE!!!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (14:48)", "body": "C is for cookie It's good enough for me! C is for cookie It's good enough for me! C is for cookie It's good enough for me! Cookie, cookie, cookie starts with C."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (01:50)", "body": "How much I shall have to learn and put in my own cookie-box when I get it soon. And Joan too, at least those cookies are not nasty little freckled things!! Ann2"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (00:14)", "body": "Okay, I've got the general gist, but somebody please give me the real explanation for \"daggy,\" OK?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (08:05)", "body": "Does any here know the folks at A&E who produce A&E or at least who they are?"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (08:49)", "body": "I am a little acquainted with the new media deprtment, Terry."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (08:50)", "body": "And they are a client of Amy2's firm. Better not approach them about sponsorhip until we talk."}, {"response": 58, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (18:36)", "body": "Sounds good. Let's talk deeper."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (11:03)", "body": "Susan; here it is. There came into being a topic of discussion, which began with a discussion about clothes, where someone noted that Mr. Firth appeared to vary on whether he \ufffddressed\ufffd left or right.. if you know what I mean. The person had discussed the topic with her husband, who thought that most men always dressed to one side, rather than alternating. There was some discussion of compiling a list of which side Mr. Darcy was dressed to in certain scenes; similar to a list of which dresses Lizzy wore in each scene, but this was never compiled (or, at any rate, never published ;-)\ufffd. ) It was one of our Australian cousins who introduced the term daggy to us, and it was unanimously moved that the topic be thus named. This, madam, is a faithful narrative of all my dealings with the daggy topic. For the truth of this account, you may inquire of Cheryl Sneed, who is familiar with the entire history of all daggy and snogging activities."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:46)", "body": "Finally, a really straight answer. Thanks, Mari!! I'm afraid all Cheryl would be able to manage is \"Ooh baby ooh baby!\" although I AW."}, {"response": 61, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (12:19)", "body": "Well i read through the entire topic..........and somehow cookies and such did not strike me as a P&P Austen topic.........I came in here to try to find out something about austen lingo and such..........thanks for daggy.......now what is snogging"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (13:50)", "body": "Poor TJ!! Snogging is Brit slang for \"necking\"! ;-)"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (13:51)", "body": "]now what is snogging.....a term used instead of necking."}, {"response": 64, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (07:56)", "body": "TJ, you had to ask."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (00:01)", "body": "Why is everything old somehow new again? I spent hours going through all the old threads to get caught up and just use the \"all new\" function, and all of a sudden all the messages in all the threads come up under \"all new.\" What did I do wrong and, how, please, please, please, do I undo it?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (00:07)", "body": "] What did I do wrong and, how, please, please, please, do I undo it? __ It is an odious bug, Susan -- with no cure, but some theories about prevention. See the \"Old is New Explained\" [pic*] thread. * pic. Premise incorrect."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "Susan - I can't guarantee this, but I've never been hit by the \"Old is New\" bug, and I use the following URL: http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/since/-1/new You might want to give this a try."}, {"response": 68, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (11:50)", "body": "Susan -- I agree w/ suggestion from Kaffeine (aka Kathleen Grant). You can also use \"-0\", or \"-2\", or other numbers, depending on how long it's been since you last viewed the messages. (The all new in the last week option from the main page gives you a \"-7\".) Good luck -- this is a terrible disease! :-) kathleen"}, {"response": 69, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (21:58)", "body": "Even if you don't want to use it all the time, http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/since/-1/new is a faster way to catch up and not have to re-display all of the old messages again."}, {"response": 70, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (00:37)", "body": "You guys are GREAT! Thanks so much for the tips -- I think I'm OK again."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:08)", "body": "God, how embarrassing -- it's me yet again. How do you copy part of someone's message so you can respond to it? I've just been retyping it, but I assume everyone else is copying because sometimes the same typos are there. I'm sure it's really simple, but I've tried a few things and can't make it work. You've all been so great -- mind helping me out once again?"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:34)", "body": "Susan, just highlight the part you wish to copy, either by dragging your mouse with the button down, or by (are we talking PC?) holding down the shift key and using the cursor arrows. Then go to E dit, choose C opy and the selected words will be in your clipboard. Paste them in the response window by going back to the Edit menu and choosing Paste. After you get used to doing it with the mouse you can check out keyboard shortcuts like CTRL-C to copy and CTRL-V to paste -- or my personal fave, CTRL-Insert, SHFT-Insert. Then you can start on the fancy stuff like the showy crossover legato mouse clicks."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "Then you can start on the fancy stuff like the showy crossover legato mouse clicks. Well, look at that. Thanks, Amy, I was doing essentially what you said, just not in the right sequence and not with my cursor in the right place. I printed out your message for future reference."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (00:21)", "body": "Good for you Susan! And you already know how to do italics! There will be no stopping you now! ;-) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 115, "subject": "Duckface and Lady Catherine", "response_count": 108, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (09:53)", "body": "What do you know - it popped right up on the screen - but it looks so lonely with a \"0\" by my name. So here is an question: Who makes your blood boil the hottest - Caroline or Lady Catherine?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "kathleen", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (13:00)", "body": "I vote for Caroline Bingley, because she doesn't even have family \"history\" to excuse her snobbish behavior. After, their fortune was acquired in trade, so who is she to look down her nose at the Bennets' relations. As for being an accomplished woman, she doesn't fool anyone w/ her notions of what that means -- she's only spouting off on the things she (thinks she does) well. Mind you, I do not like her Ladyship, either, but she has somewhat more of an excuse for her bad behavior."}, {"response": 3, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (13:18)", "body": "I guess Caroline gets my vote too. Lady Catherine actually seems a bit stupid to me which gives her an additional excuse for her poor behavior. Caroline seems to be rather clever -- or is she merely devious?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Saman", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (19:33)", "body": "Add my vote for Duckface. Lady C at least has some justification for her behaviour (wouldn't *you* be waspish if constantly subjected to Mr Collins and his delicate compliments?). Lady Catherine is a bitter old woman, whereas Miss Bingley is a bitter *young* woman - most unattractive. I love Anna Chancellor's acting though - especially at Lucas Lodge with the \"fine eyes\" scene - she glances at Darcy with as much of the whites of her eyes showing as possible - classic! Saman"}, {"response": 5, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (20:53)", "body": "I am fascinated with all JA's shrews - Mrs. Elton, Mrs. Norris, MIss Biongley, Lady Catherine. Maybe it is knowing that while they are throwing their weight around during most of the novel, they will get theirs in the final chapter."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (21:36)", "body": "How about Mary Musgrove. Oh Lord she drives me nuts."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (21:38)", "body": "I also vote for Caroline Bingley - most definitely. I have always thought she had no excuse to look down at the Bennets or Sir William Lucas since her money was acquired in the same way. Lady C. is annoying, but she has some excuse; she is the daughter of an Earl, was probably always snobbish, and is a bitter old woman who has nothing better to do than interfere in other people's business. I don't think she would sit down an read a good book (Jane Austen, maybe?). On second thoughts, neither would Duckfa e - remember she only chose the book at Netherfield because it was the second volume of the one Darcy was reading and she threw it down in boredom pretty quickly. By the way I saw Anna Chancellor in a Poirot mystery last night. She looked really pretty and had very blue eyes. I thought that they were brown in P&P2. I must admit she is a very good actress - maybe that's why we all love to hate her in P&P."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (22:31)", "body": "]She looked really pretty and had very blue eyes. I thought that they were brown in P&P2. *trivia warning* they blue in the photos I've seen as well. Likewise Mr B and Mr C. Ehle's eyes in photos are hazel; all-in-all, I get the impression that my commercial tapes have a distinct brown overlay. I only saw 2 episodes televised, but as shown here they were closer in colour to the photos"}, {"response": 9, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (00:53)", "body": "I have heard reports that on various occasions in various film roles some performers have used colored contact lenses to appear to have some other eye color, however no such report has been circculated about P&P to my knowledge."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (02:04)", "body": "I should have been more clear - the photos I'm referring to are in the Making of P&P and the BBC hardback of P&P with the actors 'in character' - that's why I'm assuming the colour variation is arising in the production of the commercial video."}, {"response": 11, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (03:01)", "body": "So should I (have been more clear) I was referring to the comment somewhere above that someone saw Anna Chancellor with blue eyes, though they were brown in P&P."}, {"response": 12, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (17:23)", "body": "I agree with you all -- Caroline Bingley is more odious than Lady Catherine, perhaps because she has designs on Darcy, and we all want him to end up with Lizzy!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (23:12)", "body": "The confrontation between E. and Lady C at Longborn - could you have been that quick on your feet at age 20 in that situation? Not me. I would have cried and promised anything, just to get her to shut-up."}, {"response": 14, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (23:13)", "body": "The confrontation between E. and Lady C at Longborn - could you have been that quick on your feet at age 20 in that situation? Not me. I would have cried and promised anything, just to get her to shut-up."}, {"response": 15, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (11:55)", "body": "I thought that Elizabeth handled herself with great aplomb during that whole incident. In fact, the first time this scene took on life for me was in P&P2; in the 1940 version, it was played strictly for laughs; and in P&P1, it was very flat. I really felt the menace in Lady C. in this one!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (12:56)", "body": "Amy2, yes, me too. Lady Catherine really had some weight behind her malelovence in P&P2. And E. seemed to be experiencing real emotions of indignation and pain over the lady's insults and criticisms."}, {"response": 17, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (13:02)", "body": "I was so disappointed when I saw what they did with lady Catherine in the 1940's version."}, {"response": 18, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (18:41)", "body": "I really thought that the confrontation between Lady C. & Elizabeth was one of the most powerful scenes in the production. Ehle outdid herself once again!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Cleo", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (16:25)", "body": "Darcy's first proposal and Lady C's confrontation. I could(and have) watched these scenes over & over. Both were superbly acted by all parties, however, Ehle was amazing. Remaining composed in both situations when personally, I would have severley lost it!!!! Cleo"}, {"response": 20, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (17:33)", "body": "Edited from the \"Propose new threads here\" topic--- From: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (11:33) * 3 lines I'd like to propose we discuss Caroline Bingley's intense jealousy of Lizzy, and how almost everything she does merely increases Darcy's desire for L. ============================================= From: Tay (Tay) * Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (13:31) * 2 lines Like for instance the time she gazes at Darcy with adoration and says, \"He is a man without fault\"? And how Lizzie, by her pert remarks and fine eyes was able to win his admiration at the end? Sometimes, I can't help feel a bit sorry for Caroline Bingley, although I suppose she deserves what she got. =================================== From: Rebecca Davey (Becks) * Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (15:41) * 1 lines Duckface, that's all I have to say! ================================= From: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (16:22) * 5 lines I love her great setups so that Darcy can convey how he's really feeling about Lizzy. Like at Netherfield, when Lizzy & Jane leave, Caroline comments that Mr. Darcy must be pining her absence, and he says: \"No, quite the contrary, I assure you.\" Or at the end, at Pemberly, when she is ragging on Lizzy, even down to her teeth, and forces Darcy to admit that which only causes pain to herself (bad paraphrase of Austen here). ========================================== From: Inko (Inko) * Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (17:31) * 2 lines Or at Netherfield, when they were talking about accomplished women and when Lizzy leaves the room (this is in the book only) CB says Lizzy is trying to recommend herself to the other sex by disparaging her own and adds \"in my opinion, it is a paltry device, a very mean art.\" To which Darcy replies \"there is meanness in all the arts which ladies sometimes condescend to employ for captivation. Whatever bears affinity to cunning is despicable.\" I love this scene because it's the first indication in the book hat Darcy can see right through CB and all her affectations. ========================================= From: Ian Davey (geekman) * Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (19:08) * 1 lines G'day, Perhaps Miss Bingley should have gone for more walks breathing the fresh country air and getting a little tanned by the sun. ==================================================== From: kathleen elder (kathleen) * Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (20:03) * 9 lines Watched an Agatha Christie mystery on tv last night -- something w/ Hercule Poirot. Any way, our Miss Bingley was in it and looked quite beautiful (age was probably mid to late twenties). Not at all like Caroline or the Duck-face. From the book, I always had the impression that Caroline was both younger and more beautiful than in P&P2. But Anna Chancellor did a marvelous acting job. I especially like the scene after the look at Pemberley when Darcy tells how much he admires Lizzie. ============================================== From: Joan, too (jwinsor) * Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (02:11) * 1 lines The very fact that we all so love to hate Caroline speaks to the excellence of Anna Chancellor's performance. ======================================================== From: Katy Kendall (kendall) * Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (09:32) * 1 lines Caroline - the lady we love to hate. She is every snob who ever ignored us, every a** who ever chose to dislike us before knowing us, the self-proclaimed center to the 'in' crowd in high school who made sure we were 'out'. Pay backs are tough, Caroline! ============================="}, {"response": 21, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (20:56)", "body": "Thanks, Katy."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (21:17)", "body": "*Trivia Warning* I think that JA must bear a lot of the blame for the fact that the name\"Caroline is often assumed to be synonymous with \"Upper-class Bitch\" even in this day and age-I speak from personal experience here- but \"Catherine\" does not bear the same stigma. If Caroline Bingley is a bitch of the first order, then her big sister is not far behind. Although not quite as vocal, she can be just as poisonous.No wonder little brother Charles is so unsure of himself!Lady Cath. believes she is doing for the best of all concerned,but Caroline is all selfishness and spite. I vote for Miss B as the worse of the two."}, {"response": 23, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (21:34)", "body": "] Lady Cath. believes she is doing for the best of all concerned Lady Cath. believes without question she knows what is best for all concerned, but I do agree that she is the lesser of two evils."}, {"response": 24, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (22:09)", "body": "*Trivia Warning* I happen to be a Katherine myself. I think the difference may be the fact that Katherine is pronounced as two syllables (Kath-ryn) and Caroline is pronoucned as three (Car-o-line). It is careful pronunciation of every letter in your name that gives it that upper-class ring. And it is classy. With both Caroline Kennedy and Princess Caroline out there, the upper class label is going to stay."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (23:20)", "body": "I was supposed to be named Caroline, but after Caroline Kennedy was born, my mom decided that everyone would think she'd named me after her (nothing political, she's a democrat - she just didn't like the idea of naming kids after a celebrity). Anyway, since I didn't get it, I decided long ago that my first born daughter would be named Caroline. Now all I need is to get around to having kids! :)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (02:43)", "body": "Regarding Lady Catherine: Has anyone else noticed that she seems to be wearing her bloomers on top of her head? Just like when I was a little girl and would put my pajama bottoms on my head to pretend that I had long hair."}, {"response": 27, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (14:39)", "body": "I must say, all of those \"married women\" caps look like the wearer is only missing their PJ's so they can go straight to bed!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (21:35)", "body": "Going back to the names.... I was christened Caroline because my mother thought it was unusual, or so she told me. Since she was a mega Austenite and Regency fan, I have often wondered whether she didn't have Queen Caroline of Brunswick (GeorgeIV's wife ) and Lady Caroline Lamb (Byron\"s Lover ) in mind too.Both of them were a bit off the wall. Another bit of trivia...Lady Catherine's clothes and espcially here Pyjama hat were supposedly based on a portait of Queen Caroline......"}, {"response": 29, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (03:02)", "body": "Did they diliberately choose the WORST colors for Lady C. and the Bingley sisters? Or were those awful oranges and browns the highest of fashion?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (04:04)", "body": "awful oranges pre-empting the summer of '96 maybe?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (21:47)", "body": "According to \"The making of P&P\" book, page 53, Dinah Collin, the costume Designer dliberately set out to make as big a contrast between theglamour of the Bingley sisters and the pretty simplicity of the Bennet girls, therefore she put them in much stronger colours and a lot of silk and glitter. Personally, I don't mind browns and oranges, but I agree that they can be hard to wear. Perhaps they contribute to Caroline's ugliness. Poor Anna Chancellor!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (20:00)", "body": "Those hats! And feathers! Vivien Leigh would have looked bad. . ."}, {"response": 33, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (21:15)", "body": "When I was about the age of the B. sisters, we still wore hats in the daytime. The strict rule was (who knows why) hats were for the day time only - not to evening events - church, shopping, whatever. Every time I see the Bingley sisters with their elaborate hats at an evening party, I snorkel and remember how crass they would have appeared in my youth and how crass they look now. I sometimes wondered if the costume designers were thinking about the same ruls of fashion and trying to play on our memories of good and bad taste."}, {"response": 34, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (11:01)", "body": "I definitely think the costumers were going for a bit of comedy in the Bingley sisters' hats. Ditto Lady Catherine's \"bloomers on her head.\" Someone had mentioned this on the board -- I was re-watching last night, remembered the comment, and \"could barely keep my countenance\"!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (14:08)", "body": "I personally think Caroline is worse than Laddy C.-at least Lady Catherine is far away at Rosings, but Caroline is always around. Also, Lady C. is frank and honest, but Caroline is hyppocritical (about Jane etc) Ugh!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (16:19)", "body": "I think we hate Caroline more because she's a direct romantic rival of Lizzy's (in _her_ eyes, at least)."}, {"response": 37, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (00:40)", "body": ".. Caroline is always around... Marsha - I love it. I bet Charles feels the same way!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (09:18)", "body": "Yes, but, I would have to say the L.C. has position, money, and the power to which she would use to cause more problems for Lizzie then Caroline would.I don't see really how Caroline would be around the Darcy's after they are married but L.Catherine could be around a lot if she so choosed. I don't like Caroline either but L.C. is a control freak."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (13:50)", "body": "I vote for Mr. Hurst. When Lizzy enters the dining room the first day at Netherfield (just after Darcy pronounces the Bennets unmarriagable) Hurst doesn't even have teh decency to stand when the lady enters the room. How shocking!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (08:24)", "body": "Hurst rhymes with wurst, and that's exactly what he looks like to me- a sprawling sausage of gluttony and physical appetites in general. Possibly the shallowest JA person to me. I also dislike Miss Steel in S&S, though, for her brand of conniving and troublebrewing. Somehow Caroline at least has humor in her persona, as Anna C. played her."}, {"response": 41, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (23:10)", "body": "Actually, most of that is thanks to Rupert Vansittart - JA gives us remarkably few clues (for her) regarding the details of Mr. Hurst's character."}, {"response": 42, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (16:02)", "body": "Donna's right -- Lady C. can cause a whole lot more trouble for Lizzy after the marriage than C.B. can. How does Austen resolve the Lady Catherine thread in the book? Does she reconcile with Darcy, and deign to visit the \"polluted\" shades of Pemberley? Help me -- I can't remember!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (16:37)", "body": "Darcy patches things up with Lizzy's help and Lady C visits after all. I most like the epilogue's reference to Mr Bennet becoming a frequent visitor. What a sweetie."}, {"response": 44, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (17:28)", "body": "Lady Catherine: I really do not believe she can cause many problems for Elizabeth. She lives far away. She is very fond of and proud of Darcy. Continuing her war with Elizabeth will alienate Darcy. She is a stupid, selfish woman who must have a limited realm of influence over a few people dependent upon her and a few others of little understanding. People of sense will ignore her if she tries to turn them against Elizabeth. And the tabloids, who would gladly publish anything they could get her to sa , (foolish woman she, this would be fertile ground!) were not around then to operate on the modern scale. Miss Bingley, on the other hand, is clever, and being younger with no settled home of her own, is more mobile. Distance will never keep her from Pemberly. Once Charles and Jane settle in the next county, distance will never be a problem for her. If she ever figures out why her previous assaults on Elizabeth were ineffective, she could find ways to influence people against Elizabeth. And she will probably out-live Lady C. to be a thorn in Elizabeth's side long after the Lady has gone to her eternal re ard. Anyone want to speculate on a suitable eternal reward - to eat dinner every night with Mr. Collins?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (19:43)", "body": "I don't know if I agree. Lady Catherine is Darcy's \"almost nearest relation\" and she has enough money & power to cause a lot of bother. If she keeps up her hatred of E., it seems that every family function could be pretty awkward. Likewise, I think that C.B. loses most of her leverage when Darcy marries Lizzy. Her eternal reward -- being made to hear Mary play & sing forever?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (03:43)", "body": "\"Her eternal reward -- being made to hear Mary play & sing forever?\" Capital! Capital! While at dinner with Mr. Collins."}, {"response": 47, "author": "MRCOLLINS", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:20)", "body": "Actually I feel a little sorry for Mary. Anybody care to speculate on her fate? I think JA says in one of her letters that she married one of her uncle's lawclerks. She might have been bitter over being rejected by Mr Collins."}, {"response": 48, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:28)", "body": "] Actually I feel a little sorry for Mary. Anybody care to speculate on her fate? I think JA says in one of her letters that she married one of her uncle's lawclerks. She might have been bitter over being rejected by Mr Collins. ___ Hi Carl. Welcome. You know, I'll bet Mary did not expect much. Therefore she was probably not bitter. It is very funny to think of her longing for Mr C, though, fantasizing about him &c. Amy"}, {"response": 49, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:37)", "body": "What about Kitty? Did JA ever drop what kind of guy she might have ended up with?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (15:17)", "body": "Kitty was respectably married to a clergyman who held a living near Pemberly"}, {"response": 51, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (16:18)", "body": "Thanks! I didn't think she was destined for a particularly rich husband."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Kathy", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (01:00)", "body": "The marital outcomes of Kitty and Mary were not resolved in the book, but rather, through JA's letters and other writings after the book was published. Everybody wanted to know what happened to so-and-so, so Jane invented postscripts for some of them, that survive to today."}, {"response": 53, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (07:40)", "body": "I've come on to this thread late, but... Re: 24:46 -- I have the \"Jane Austen Punishments List\" in the Jane Austen jokes file Re: 24:52 -- I have James Edward Austen-Leigh's summary of Jane Austen's follow-on comments at the beginning of http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austseql.html"}, {"response": 54, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (22:26)", "body": "Was watching P&P2 tonight and during the Lizzy/Lady C. confrontation in tape 6(?), and it seemed to me that Lady C. sounded like Our Miss Brooks - Eve Arden. except Miss Brooks never sounded as cross and unpleasant as Lady C. Did I imagine that or has anyone else noticed the voice similarity?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (10:40)", "body": "Yeah, I noticed the Eve Arden /Lady C. vocal similarity! Another is a Darcy/Capt. Kirk of STAR TREK similarity in the Part 6 moment when Bingley says \"So I have your blessing[to propose to Jane]?\" Look at the way Darcy moves his head and listen as he vocalizes \"Do you need my blessing?\"etc. IT'S PURE KIRK!(like scenes where Kirk would get this slightly ironic manner & look talking to a crewman) We could probably find many others, such as someone said on topic #4 that Darcy resembled a young singer Tom Jones as D. leaned back in his chair, exhausted from writing the letter to E. Anyone see/hear any others??"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (11:06)", "body": "] Look at the way Darcy moves his head and listen as he vocalizes \"Do you need my blessing?\"etc. IT'S PURE KIRK! ___ LOL, France. You have some extra rich neural connections I do not possess."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (11:07)", "body": "Yes I have notice a similarity to Sir Lawrence Oliver after the first proposal before he walks up the stairs to write the letter to Lizzie.When walks into the light at that moment he reminds me of him. When he says No,forgive me forgive me. {sigh}When he leans back in his chair he looks like SLO to me. I don't really care for TJ."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (12:02)", "body": "Donna, I thought he looked very like Laurence Olivier after he got out of the carriage at the first assembly in Meryton and he looked up at the windows. When I first saw that upward glance I immediately thought SLO!!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (12:15)", "body": "He is such a cutie-pie more so then SLO he seems more approachable. I do admire SLO who doesn't he was such a wonderful actor. I guess it has to do with his vast \"Shakesphearian\" background."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (12:31)", "body": "I'm with you, Donna. CF seems to be a much warmer person, and his Darcy also becomes a much warmer one than Olivier's. SLO was a great actor and a great \"STAR\" as in the 30's and 40's there were other such great, unapproachable stars. But I think CF is more of a chameleon as an actor - he can change appearance, tone, body language, and personality to fit the role which I don't think SLO ever did."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (13:11)", "body": "Yes,yes a \"Chameleon\" I like him very much indeed."}, {"response": 62, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (13:19)", "body": "Donna and Inko- \"He is such a cutie-pie more so then SLO he seems more approachable...CF seems to be a much warmer person, and his Darcy also becomes a much warmer one than Olivier's.\" Whew, it IS getting warm in here. ;-) I realize that this tangent is becoming #4-ish, but (heck, it's HIS site practically, ain't it?) on recommendation I did check out A MONTH IN THE COUNTRY- FILM DISCUSSION site (have also seen film) and I agree with Carol's? comment about how, even at just 26? and in a different role, CF sunning himself on the tomb (right before the minister's wife wakens him) is a very kissable-looking stunner! (Where is MY fencing foil and pond? I shall conquer this!)"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (14:22)", "body": "Oh, I have not seen A MONTH IN THE COUNTRY but have read serval discussion. Sure would like to. I like \"very kissable-looking\". I guess I am back to \"drooling\" Oh well, can't help myself."}, {"response": 64, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (15:18)", "body": "LOL Cecily and Donna. Maybe we'd better head back to Topic #4 before we slobber all over this one!!;) Oh yes, that scene in A Month in the Country is gorgeous, as well as the final goodbye scene in the belfry with Mrs. Keach - oh those eyes."}, {"response": 65, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (22:38)", "body": "I can't agree that Olivier didn't have the ability to change looks/mannerisms for a role. How can you compare him in WUTHERING HEIGHTS to he played in BOYS FROM BRAZIL?! Or his mid-European grandfather in A LITTLE ROMANCE to Lord Nelson in THAT HAMILTON WOMAN? Egad, the man was a virtual chameleon!"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Tay", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (15:02)", "body": "Exactly. Laurence Olivier is one of my most favourite actors (they usually tend to be stars from the 30's and 40's.) I especially love his performance in Rebecca - nothing can match that wonderful condescending attitude of his towards adorable Joan Fontaine! But I don't like his Heathcliff; he wasn't too cruel. And his Darcy was too stiff, and a bit akward."}, {"response": 67, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (19:31)", "body": "Yeah, he definitely played Darcy as aloof. Though he warmed up quite a bit in that first proposal scene with Greer!"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (16:41)", "body": "I remember admiring his performance in \"Richard III\" as well as Rebecca and some Tjechov play \"Uncle Vanja\" ?"}, {"response": 69, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (17:23)", "body": "I understand he was wonderful playing a burned out song-and-dance man. And the film was. . .???"}, {"response": 70, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (17:32)", "body": "amy2 -- are you meaning the movie \"The Entertainer\"?"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (17:37)", "body": "Has anyone seen August, the Uncle Vanya set in Wales with Anthony Hopkins?"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (19:49)", "body": "If I'm not mistaken, Hopkins also composed the music for August ."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (19:57)", "body": "Directed, too."}, {"response": 74, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "Yes, Kathleen, the film was THE ENTERTAINER. Haven't seen it, but I understand that Olivier was amazing."}, {"response": 75, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (14:19)", "body": "Amy2 -- I saw THE ENTERTAINER a long time ago. I remember little about it, but I do remember thinking that Olivier was good (but so very different from many other of his parts that it took a while to get used to him)."}, {"response": 76, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "He really was amazingly versatile. And he continued to be so even in his later years."}, {"response": 77, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (19:50)", "body": "Rebecca was a wonderful film...it captured the mood of the book perfectly. Also enjoyed THW ...the story intrigued me...and I love Vivien Leigh..."}, {"response": 78, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (12:32)", "body": "I thought THAT HAMILTON WOMAN was a really great film. You don't hear too much about it these days though..."}, {"response": 79, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "For some reason, a lot of people don't like the stuff Sir Larry and Ms. Vivien did together. I hear that their ROmeo and Juliet was a really bad film, but I loved THW. It's a very bittersweet story, and done well. Admiral Nelson is a just the type of character Olivier was meant to portray. Why wouldn't people be able to appreciate this film?"}, {"response": 80, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "I have no idea. I just loved THW. And Leigh really did look radiant. Go figure."}, {"response": 81, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (21:30)", "body": "I loved THW also. I headed to the encylopedia and then the local library trying to find out more about Lord Nelson and Lady Hamilton. I was fascinated that even World Book gave a few lines to the mistress in their short biography. Local library was no help though. I would love to know more about them. I have seen a few scenes of the new adaption of the story with Lady Hamilton a very loud and vulgar person but cared little for it. One day I will get to the university library and perhaps learn more."}, {"response": 82, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (22:40)", "body": "Katy, the later version of Lady Hamilton as loud and vulgar is historically more accurate as far as I can remember. She was certainly neither as beautiful or as refined as Vivien Leigh made her. But I did and still do love the movie. BTW it was just called \"Lady Hamilton\" in England."}, {"response": 83, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (11:22)", "body": "I think it was an Alexander Korda film. And released at a time when Britain needed a lift during WWII. . ."}, {"response": 84, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (16:18)", "body": "\"Lady Hamilton as loud and vulgar is historically more accurate\" somehow, this doesn't surprize me -- but I think I will skip the movie anyway. So, Inko, what became of Lady Hamilton after Lord Nelson died?"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (16:41)", "body": "That part of the movie is pretty accurate so far as I know. She was left without any money, destitute, and more or less on the street. Lady Nelson was left the house, money, honour, and everything that Nelson would have been entitled to had he lived."}, {"response": 86, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (23:05)", "body": "\".. more or less on the street\" Is nothing else known of her after Lord Nelson died? Did the child survive to adulthood? Did she literally live on the street? Could Nelson have provided for her if he had thought to?"}, {"response": 87, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (01:05)", "body": "Did not Susan Sontag write a novel on this subject? Or am I confusing things."}, {"response": 88, "author": "alix", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (18:55)", "body": "You know, after watching P&P again, the person I wanted to thwack wasn't Ducky, or Lady C.- it was Mrs. Bennet. She reminds me just too much of my aunt, I suppose. I would say that Mr. Collins reminds me of my World History teacher, but that would be cruel- to Mr. C."}, {"response": 89, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (19:31)", "body": "I must agree with you on Mrs. Bennet. Don't you love how she and Mrs. Phillips suddenly \"remember\" how much they had distrusted Wickham!?! \"There was always something about his eyes\"! She comes across as stupid, but really she knew exactly how to get her own way, didn't she? I still dislike Duckface, though. I love it when Darcy puts her in her place after E. leaves Pemberley that night. \"having forced him to say what gave no one any pain but herself.\""}, {"response": 90, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (21:35)", "body": "Don't you love how she and Mrs. Phillips suddenly \"remember\" how much they had distrusted Wickham!?! \"There was always something about his eyes\"! Similar to how Mrs. Dashwood \"remembers\" there were things she didn't like so much about Willoughby, now that Marianne is with Colonel Brandon? Loved Elinor's smile upon listening to her mother!"}, {"response": 91, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "How about Mrs B's sudden switcheroo after the marriage arrangements had been set. \"Oh, I knew he [her brother] would manage everything.\" Then a minute later he was guilty of something dreadful -- what was it?"}, {"response": 92, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (11:18)", "body": "I also like her changing views on Bingley after he's left Netherfield. When she's talking to Lizzy in the garden: \"Well, just as he pleases. No one WANTS him to come.\" Of course, if he showed up that second, she'd prostrate herself at his feet."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (12:40)", "body": "Amy: How about Mrs B's sudden switcheroo after the marriage arrangements had been set. \"Oh, I knew he [her brother] would manage everything.\" Then a minute later he was guilty of something dreadful -- what was it? Mr. Gardiner's sin was to be so high handed as to have Lydia be married in London rather than at Longbourn...\"I do not see that! Why must that be?\" Silly, silly woman. Or when she is so afraid that Mr. Bennet will fight Wickham and be killed, but when Mr. Bennet is to come home, \"Oh, who will fight Wickham and make him marry her?\" But my favorite turn-around is her attitude towards Darcy, \"Oh, what pin money you shall have! Pray find out what his favorite dishes are!\" ;-)"}, {"response": 94, "author": "alix", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (20:02)", "body": "I wouldn't call Mrs. B. sillt all of the time. I just think that the things that you pointed out above that she said, she said to make herself seem to be in the best possible light- of course Lizzy and Mr. B. would remind her of her turn-around fairly often!"}, {"response": 95, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (20:38)", "body": "I guess Mrs B's best scene was not shot, when Lizzy tells her of the engagement."}, {"response": 96, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (23:34)", "body": "How did she react in the book? Was she stunned into silence, or did she go into a tizzy?"}, {"response": 97, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (23:55)", "body": "Amy2: How did she react in the book? She was silent for fully 10 minutes! And then went into the above mentioned \"what pin money you shall have\" speech...\"Why Bingley's wealth is nothing compared to his!\" Terribly crude and crass, you know, typical Mrs. Bennet! ;-)"}, {"response": 98, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (06:14)", "body": "Jane Austen tells us that Elizabeth \"reserve to herselfthe application for her mother's [consent. She knew that her mother's manner (whether she rejected ]. . . . whether she [Mrs Bennet] were violently set against the match, or violently delighted with it, it was certain that her manner would be equally ill adapted to do credit to her sense\". Actually, it seems to me that Mrs Bennet's reaction did complete justice to her sense! And Alison Steadman could have had a field day with that scene. ;-)"}, {"response": 99, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (15:49)", "body": "Kathleen said Mrs. Bennet's reaction did complete justice to her sense! I agree that it did - or was it her lack of sense?? Alison Steadman could have had a field day with that scene.;-) Oh yes, I'd love to have seen it. I can just visualize her, after Lizzie had gone back to her own room, flying down the corridor opening Lizzie's door and saying in her loud voice, \"And a special license. You must and shall be married by a special license.\" At which point, of course, Kitty and Mary would also descend on Lizzie's room and the excitement in the corridor would continue long after Lizzie had closed the door with a sigh of relief!!;-)"}, {"response": 100, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (16:18)", "body": "Or perhaps the best part of all: Mrs B's utter silence upon first hearing the news. (I still believe she was for a split second jealous)"}, {"response": 101, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (03:09)", "body": "But would the 10 minutes of silence have filmed well? ;-)"}, {"response": 102, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (09:02)", "body": "]But would the 10 minutes of silence have filmed well? ;-) How about this: (Elizabeth and Mrs. Bennet in Mrs. B's room.) E: Mama, Mr. Darcy had proposed and I have accepted. Mrs. B: (Silent and totally still) E: Mama, did you hear, Mr. Darcy and I are to be married. Mrs. B: (Remains silent and still) E: Mama, are you all right? Mama? Mama! Mrs. B: Lips moving, but no sound coming out--Mr. Darcy, 10,000 a year, 10,000 a year, 10,000 a year ..... At this point E either A) runs some smelling salts under her nose or B) dumps a pitcher of water over her (the choice is yours). Mrs. B thus recovers and goes into her pin money speech."}, {"response": 103, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (12:12)", "body": "Carolyn -- wonderfully imagined. I personally like the pitcher of water, but I imagine Elizabeth would be nice and use the smelling salts. And don't forget, Mrs B has to fidget, get up and sit down again! I shall just imagine Allison Steadman here. ;.)"}, {"response": 104, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "I still like the idea of Mrs. Bennet being played by Eric Idle or Michael Palin."}, {"response": 105, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (15:12)", "body": "#102 At this point E either A) runs some smelling salts under her nose or B) dumps a pitcher ofwater over her (the choice is yours). Carolyn, how evil of you to give us that choice! You know how most of us would want to choose, don't you?"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (06:58)", "body": "#105 Carolyn, how evil of you to give us that choice! You know how most of us would want to choose, don't you? Susan, I am sure we are ladylike and will do the \"right\" thing. ;-)"}, {"response": 107, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (10:58)", "body": "I'm still fond of my idea that Mrs. Bennet should be played by Hugh Grant. Such palpitations of his heart & flutterings!"}, {"response": 108, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (16:41)", "body": "] Mrs. Bennet should be played by Hugh Grant. Such palpitations of his heart & flutterings! the very thing! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 119, "subject": "Jeremy Northam", "response_count": 251, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "winter", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (11:07)", "body": "(sigh) all alone and no one to talk to about my dearest, loveliest, Mr. Northam... Where is everyone?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (11:35)", "body": "At church?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (11:36)", "body": "Making.....................................................................Sunday dinner"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "Last few messages before the move: Topic 4 of 4 [austenarchive]: Another Drooling Topic - Of the Knightley/Northam Variety Response 78 of 86: winter (winter) * Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (22:35) * 12 lines (drool...drool...drool) WHERE HAVE I BEEN ALL THIS TIME! Thank GOD I've found other JN devotees! I thought I must've been going crazy! (looking in the browers five times a week or so for any more info on JN isn't considerd psychotic here, is it?) you know, i've been wondering the same thing about JN's possible reaction to seeing TWO sites devoted to him (Kaffeine and the JN World Wide). I somewhat feel awkard myself when i imagine him discovering his face and voice plastered all over the WWW. i mo stly wonder what he must think of us! JEREMY, IF YOU'RE READING THIS: I love you! Have a secret rendevous with me! Or how 'bout just getting together for drinks?! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 4 of 4 [austenarchive]: Another Drooling Topic - Of the Knightley/Northam Variety Response 79 of 86: Kali Pappas (Kali) * Sat, Feb 1, 1997 (03:57) * 5 lines JEREMY, IF YOU'RE READING THIS: I love you! Have a secret rendevous with me! Or how 'bout just getting together for drinks?! Okay, you were doing fine up until this part...this is a little psycho...;) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 4 of 4 [austenarchive]: Another Drooling Topic - Of the Knightley/Northam Variety Response 80 of 86: winter (winter) * Sat, Feb 1, 1997 (12:34) * 4 lines thanks for the sanity check, kali. yes, i am losing it...but it can't be helped. (on a quick side note, if any of you are in the l.a. area, i have just received notice that the making of P&P book has been ordered at the samuel french bookstore in hollywood [sunset/fairfax area], and should be in by next week! ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 4 of 4 [austenarchive]: Another Drooling Topic - Of the Knightley/Northam Variety Response 81 of 86: Kali Pappas (Kali) * Sat, Feb 1, 1997 (19:25) * 1 lines Oh, on a side note, the other day in chat, Amy crowned Kaff Queen of Northamland (by proxy, b/c Kaff wasn't there!), and granted her dual citizenship here in the Republic of Pemberley. I was appointed Ambassador to Northamland and Monaco. ;) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 4 of 4 [austenarchive]: Another Drooling Topic - Of the Knightley/Northam Variety Response 82 of 86: Kathleen Grant (Kaffeine) * Sun, Feb 2, 1997 (00:42) * 1 lines I don't know what to say! As the queen, does this mean I get first dibs on him?! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 4 of 4 [austenarchive]: Another Drooling Topic - Of the Knightley/Northam Variety Response 83 of 86: Kali Pappas (Kali) * Sun, Feb 2, 1997 (00:56) * 1 lines Only if you adopt me as a Princess of Northamland! ;) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 4 of 4 [austenarchive]: Another Drooling Topic - Of the Knightley/Northam Variety Response 84 of 86: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Sun, Feb 2, 1997 (01:53) * 4 lines Kaffeine: As the queen, does this mean I get first dibs on him?! Kaff, it's good to be the Queen! ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 4 of 4 [austenarchive]: Another Drooling Topic - Of the Knightley/Northam Variety Response 85 of 86: Kali Pappas (Kali) * Sun, Feb 2, 1997 (04:58) * 3 lines History of the World, Part One. Too easy, Cheryl! --- So Kaff, can I be a Grand Duchess? Pleeze? Pretty-Pleeze?!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 4 of 4 [austenarchive]: Another Drooling Topic - Of the Knightley/Northam Variety Response 86 of 86: Kali Pappas (Kali) * Sun, Feb 2, 1997 (04:59) * 1 lines Either that, or one of those goofy Mary Engelbreit greeting cards...;)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (14:41)", "body": "Oh, on a side note, the other day in chat, Amy crowned Kaff Queen of Northamland (by proxy, b/c Kaff wasn't there!), and granted her dual citizenship here in the Republic of Pemberley. I was appointed Ambassador to Northamland and Monaco. ;) __ I said Kaf, as queen (I assume her crown is uncontested) could have dual citizenship, of course. What inspired all this nonsense was Cheryl's mention of how her titles would look on a business card: For anyone who wants her own title and has some kind of paint program, there is a blank card at: http://www.spring.com/~amy/card.gif"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (14:44)", "body": "Oops, that is not right. The blank card is called pemcard.gif http://www.spring.com/~amy/pemcard.gif"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (14:46)", "body": "Joan wants to be Administrative Assistant to Andrew Davies (who has applied for citizenship so he can work in our national studio), only if Mr. Davies conception of the position does not include typing."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (15:23)", "body": "I just love that card amy! I've been flashing it all over Pemberley to be sure that I am treated with the respect and awe such titles obviously instill in everyone!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (18:03)", "body": "But Cheryl, those of us who know you would always treat you with exactly the amount of respect which you deserve. And your titles are AWESOME!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (18:13)", "body": "Kathleen: But Cheryl, those of us who know you would always treat you with exactly the amount of respect which you deserve. Exactly what I'm afraid of!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "bac", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (18:33)", "body": ""}, {"response": 12, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (20:09)", "body": "Alright ladies-if Cheryl enjoys dual citizenship, Kaff is Queen, and Kal-Princess of Northamland-Where does that leave me? Court jester??? A reminder: For any of you who don't know there is a small, but delectable pic of our dear JN in the feb. Instyle-complete with sunglasses."}, {"response": 13, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (20:09)", "body": "Alright ladies-if Cheryl enjoys dual citizenship, Kaff is Queen, and Kal-Princess of Northamland-Where does that leave me? Court jester??? A reminder: For any of you who don't know there is a small, but delectable pic of our dear JN in the feb. Instyle-complete with sunglasses."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (02:12)", "body": "I guess so, Cass! ;) Amy, not to seem whiny, but I liked MY original title for this topic! :::)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (10:52)", "body": "Amy, not to seem whiny, but I liked MY original title for this topic! :::) Well, Kali, as the queen, I suppose I could order that it be changed!! Cassandra - You could be Lady-in-Waiting - no, not for me, for Jeremy! Actually, now that I think about it - wanna trade titles?!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "Hmm-Lady in waiting-that's starting to grow on me. Although, I think I would prefer him waiting in me. You know-Cheryl keeps telling me that we will eventually have to arm-wrestle for him."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (19:13)", "body": "I suppose that we really should let him choose. We'll just each have to spend a night? week? month? with him and then he can declare the winner!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "winter", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "absolutely! JN MUST decide... i'd say one week trials, and by the end of the \"trial season\" he must decide on one. if he likes, he should have the option of having a 'runner up' (in case things don't work out with the first). and consolation prise for the unlucky ones is a long, passionate kiss on the mouth and a full body embrace! (that's not too much to ask considering what the winner gets). ---------- p.s.: we've heard about \"mimic' coming out in march, what about 'the tribe'?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (02:03)", "body": "Hey! What about ME???!!!! I'm Northamland ROYALTY, for cryin' out loud!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (14:40)", "body": "#18-Winter(Is that your stage name?)-Don't get me started again on embraces. I feel a song coming on. You go to my head like a thousand july's. You intoxicate my soul with Your eyes...... This might be a stupid question. But, does everyone have the Miramax edition of Emma, complete with delectable pictures from the film. My personal favorite-Jeremy, looking ever so Knightley-like, being grilled by Emma and Mrs Weston concerning his rumoured affection for Jane Fairfax. Very Elegant!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "winter", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:09)", "body": "cassandra (and everyone else): yes, winter is a stage name. my real name is VERY common and i've seen it show up on so many conferences,newsgroups, etc. that i just got sick of it and used winter (a character in the 'star wars' books) instead. i hated getting flamed for things i never said. hope you all of you don't mind. jeremy northam DOES look quite knightly-esque in that scene. my favorite scene (and it was mentioned before) was at the ball when he asks emma with whom she was planning on dancing. oh... don't get me started! [i'm staring at my two pictures of JN that i have taped on the wall in front of me: that sexy pose from \"the net\" (slight turn of the head, soulful glance) and a picture of knightly giving emma a nuzzle. oh dear! ] hey! anyone know how we can send a valentine to jeremy? i'm sure he'd love it!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:18)", "body": "Kali - You get your week, just like everyone else! So quit yer bitching! Cassandra (Is Cas or Cass okay for short?) - I may lose my crown over this, but I never purchased that edition of the book! I do have the book on tape, though - does that count?!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:34)", "body": "Actually, the pic's in the miramax edition are smallish and only in black-&-white...I didn't buy it b/c I alread have two copies of the book and figured it would be a waste of my cash... --- My WEEK? A whole WEEK? And what if he decides that he likes me BEST? ;)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:05)", "body": "Kaff-Cass is fine. About the book, I am not the head of the Northam police. Such is my JA and now my JN addiction that I couldn't resist buying it. I think I have three copies of Emma, four of P&P, one of the making of P&P...the list goes on and on. My friends find me to be the easiest person to shop for and please. I don't think I ever met an edition of a JA novel that I didn't like. Even with the black and white pics, this version is lovely. When I first opened it, I saw that Knightlesque pic and my hea t cried out...Those twinkling eyes! That profile! Those dark, wavy curls that you want to run your fingers through! But, since I didn't have any money on me, I had to go first to the bank machine. When I expressed concern at leaving the book in the shop, my sister rudely retorted-Who would want to buy that?(misinformed child) And as you probably have guessed- when I returned, someone had indeed snatched it away. Distraught but not defeated, I spent the next week hunting it down(think Mission Impossible music), until I finally found it behind some dusty books in a quaint, bohemian bookstore in the trendy Glebe section o Ottawa. Oh in case you are wondering-I am sane. There's just such a shocking lack of information and pics."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:48)", "body": "Cass, have you been to Kaff's site? She has tons o' pix in brilliant technicolor! Also, there are some nice photos at the Miramax Emma site. --- Guys, I'd expect Firth to be ahead of us at this point, but Ciaran hinds is already three messages up! Let's get DROOLING!!!!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (16:39)", "body": "Kali-to answer your question-yes, I have. In those long, summer days before Emma came out, I would fawn over those pictures at the Miramax site! I just see so little of him in magazines, except for the People article. But, once again-thank-you Kaff! I esecially love the GAtsbyesque pose from Fatal Inversion. I can't wait to see that one! I love the articles too-Jeremy coming in on his white horse to save the production of Hamlet, so strong and capable-very Knightley-like! Plus, I read that he broke up wit some girlfriend. May that situation remain the same, that is until he choses one of us. And-I was thinking the same thing about the Hinds situation. My Mother and I watched Persuasion last night(she's a complete Wentworthaholic) and she keeps trying to convince me of HInds sex appeal. To quote her-he's soooo intense. Go figure. And, I noticed that that Graves fellow is even gaining on us. I am shocked and grieved indeed. So, to help the drooling along: Describe your fantasy evening with the one and only JN-can be anywhere.(although let's keep details to a respectable and tasteful minimum. We wouldn't want to shock the poor guy, especially if he is reading this!)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (04:03)", "body": "Fantasy evening? Hmmm...well, if I have to keep it clean, then there's no point discussing it! ;)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "Here, ladies, I'll help you. I have not seen Emma yet,too far and too uneducated here to be worth showing. So tell me what I am missing!;-) Cass- are you in Ottawa? We have to meet some time!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (04:40)", "body": "It's charming and funny, Caroline...Even if you don't think the tone is faithful to the book (which I think it is...), you will enjoy it. It is delightful - bright and sharp. It does, however, cut quite a bit, though it manages to stuff in most of the important plot elements (see the \"Emma\" topic on the Austen board). And Jeremy is so adorable... I must admit that I am more in love with Mr. Knightley than Jeremy (in fact, I'm not in love with Jeremy at all, though I do think he is quite attractive...), but Jeremy brings him to life...it's like channelling spirits or something..."}, {"response": 30, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (18:28)", "body": "Caroline-Do you really live in Ottawa? I go to school in London, but Ottawa is really is home, all my hangouts. I can't believe you didn't get to see Emma. I know it was playing for a long time at the World Exchange in Ottawa; I think my repeated visits kept it playing.(I've seen it ten times) I know they sometimes re-show it at the Mayfair theatre too, great vaudeville-turned movie house down on Bank. Anyways, when you do see it, I'm sure you will love it. It is truly one of the most charming, romantic, delightful films I have ever seen and for me, it was Emma. Like Kali said, some of the twists and turns are missing(like the party at Donwell when Frank makes his sudden appearance;Mr Woodhouse's main reason for giving his blessing to the E/K union), but the look, feel, spirit of Emma is there. Plus, the casting is great: GP makes a convincing and charming Emma, Spohie Thompson should get an Oscar as Miss Bates, and Jeremy Northam as KNightley.......Sigh. And Kali-I know exactly what you mean...I remember when I saw the Net, I thought JN was very talented, and of course, incredibly handsome. BUt JN as KNightley-what a powerful, irresistable combination. I'm know my ten trips to the theatre were largely because of this. For me, he was Mr Knightley: strong, capable, charming, smart, vulnerable, chivalrous, and of course-very, very romantic."}, {"response": 31, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (18:41)", "body": "Just another thought: Guys, you know how I really feel about this Knightley fixation.....Anyone seen that Woody Allen film Play it again Sam where he's completely obsessed by Casablanca??? At the end of the movie, fantasy becomes reality when Woody finally gets his chance to say Bogie's \"the problems of three little people in the world..\" speech to Diane Keaton/Ilsa. And of course, his next line is-I've waited my whole life to say that.... Well, in a way(and don't call the guys with the white coats) that's how I fell about Emma. It's like I'm waiting to wake up with my hair coiffed in a GP bun and suddenly realize-no one must marry Mr Knightley but me..... WEll"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (21:45)", "body": "God, I'm glad you guys said it. I know I'm in danger of being booted right off this thread, but Jeremy Northam does nothing for me. Mr. Knightley, however: oh, my! (Cheryl words here)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (21:55)", "body": "Ah, well, now you see why I'M the queen, and get to be first in line for him - for as much as I esteem his Mr. Knightly, I'll happily take him as Jack Devlin - or even as Jeremy Northam for that matter!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (03:52)", "body": "Now Kaff, If I actually got a chance to MEET the man, I might be impressed enough to actually fall in love with him. But until then, it's kind of lame to moon after a movie star I can't have. So until I run into Jeremy personally, I can't really say whether or not I'd have him sans Knightley persona. Pragmatism, pragmatism...;)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (11:11)", "body": "Kali - You can't let reality get in the way of a good drool! If I were to do that, I'd have to acknowledge that I'm happily married, and that even if I met Jeremy there is zero chance of my abandoning my husband for him. In order to enter the drool conference, you have to check reality in at the door!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "Thanks, Kaff. Maybe Amy should put another new button at the top of the Drool Conference saying--Check Reality Here!!!;-) I've been doing that for quite some time, although I limit it to Topic 1 in this conference!!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (14:58)", "body": "Kaff -- what a marvelous idea. Then we could \"tip\" the young man at the \"Reality Check\" counter on our way out! (I have some suggestions for men to work that counter, too.) Without a reality check, it wouldn't make sense to fantasize about the characters, let alone the actors! (And we couldn't imagine becoming Emma on her wedding night.)"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (15:50)", "body": "(And we couldn't imagine becoming Emma on her wedding night.) The ultimate for me! The character of Mr. Knightley has appeared in more of my fantasies that any other Jane Austen male."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "Reality checking... terribly fun possibilities."}, {"response": 40, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (19:03)", "body": "About reality checks-To paraphrase Blanche Dubois: I don't want reality, I want magic, magic!! And Susan-in case you are interested, my friend and I penned our own version of the newly married Mr and Mrs Knightley over at the Spring."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (19:16)", "body": "Bad news, folks - MIMIC's release has been postponed until sometime this summer. Personally, I think its all a giant conspiracy by Miramax to drive us insane. :)"}, {"response": 42, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (19:57)", "body": "MOre bad news-Emma won't be released on video until mid April. Miramax is really pushing for a best actress oscar nomination for GP."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (20:41)", "body": "#40 Cassandra, ditto on the reality checks. I get enough reality. And exactly where is this Mr. and Mrs. Knightley story? Thanks!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (03:39)", "body": "And what a hormonally-charged story it is! --- The bad thing about checking reality at the door is that I may never to back to retrieve it!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (03:39)", "body": "And what a hormonally-charged story it is! --- The bad thing about checking reality at the door is that I may never go back to retrieve it!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (03:42)", "body": "Oops! Note the typo I wasn't quick enough to correct in the first post...oh well...now we're ten messages ahead of that Hinds fellow..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (13:52)", "body": "can't let reality get in the way of a good drool! Why Kaff, that's so true and it is true the other way around too. When you have had your drool dose, it's time to look reality in the eye and cope with it, though it may sometimes lack refinement and romance. Kali, that ability can be achieved, though I won't pretend it comes without effort and pain ;=) Take it from the mouth of an old circus horse, carrying her plumage as high as ever Caroline Bingley."}, {"response": 48, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (14:16)", "body": "Ann2 -- Caroline Bingley as a plumed circus horse, yes I can see it. With your help I finally realized of what she most reminded me! And she does perform for her audience, does she not? ; )"}, {"response": 49, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (18:23)", "body": "Susan-to answer your question, the story is over at Topic 43, somewhere between all the P&P2 scenes. I think it's at the Derbyshire writer's guild too. And What a hormonally-charged story.....I guess I did push the limits of the PG-13 rating, wanted to shake up the balance. I'm just a little tired of this Darcy drooling. Emma and Knigthley's romance is just as passionate as Darcy and Elizabeth."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (21:36)", "body": "#'s 40 & 49: Cassandra, I found and read your Emma and Knightley story... she even called him George. Wonderful!!! I quite agree that E & K deserve as many stories as Elizabeth and Darcy. Keep them coming, OK?!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (16:55)", "body": "Susan-I thank-you. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I really had fun writing it-writing is one of my passions. I already have some ideas for the next chapter. I just wish I could use some of that stuff for my creative writing class. BUt, then again,I wouldn't want to shock my Prof-very conservative type who still wears his black robes to class every day. I guess it cuts down on his clothing bill. Besides, his idea of interacting with the class, cutting loose so to speak, is spinning yarns about the good old days ith Sir Larry and the boys. WE think he means Olivier."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (22:25)", "body": "I liked it very much, Cassandra. I'm not good at creative stuff, but I have written Emma from the point of view of Jane and Frank - what happens between the Donwell Strawberry party and the end of the book in their minds...Cheryl is proofing and poking it around for me, but when it's ready, I'll start posting installments. I must admit, even I am beginning to love Frank! ;{ The next attempt will be their marriage, and then the mind of Miss Bates..."}, {"response": 53, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:28)", "body": "Kali-The story sounds great! I've always loved the Donwell party in the book, when Jane rushes off. I hope it's in the new Emma. And the mind of Miss Bates-that could take forever!!! I think we should start our own topic over at the Spring for New Emma scenes."}, {"response": 54, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:39)", "body": "THere's more: I really enjoyed our JN/Knightley droolfest at Pemberley last night. Amongst his other attributes and obvious charms, I neglected to mention his name-Jeremey Northam; it rolls off the tongue so pleasantly, so easily-kinda like Mr George Knightley. HMMm: Jeremy-George/Knightley-Northam......."}, {"response": 55, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:48)", "body": "Yes-there's still more. Besides, now that we've passed Mr Hinds, I think we should at least equal Mr Firth. Another song for my beloved JN. Hopefully, Noel Coward was right about the potency of cheap music. (Just joking) Gershwin Rules, along with JA!!!!!!! Once again I'm perched on a piano, Billie Holliday camellia in my hair: I've got a crush on you, sweety pie. All the day and nightime Hear me sigh. I never had the least notion, that I could fall with so much Emotion. Could you? Could you Care??? For a lovely cottage that we could Share.......... The world will pardon my mush. Cause I have got a crush-my BAAAAABY On YOuuuuuuu..........."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:42)", "body": "Oh dear, Cass...now I'm getting worried...;-)"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (15:43)", "body": "Cassandra, I loved your rebuke and love scenes at creative:s , Badly done, Emmma and Well done Knightley ,=)). To imagine they actually stayed outdoors in that soft night. Uhhmm And Kali, what joy to know that you are among those week souls that can't refrain from making their romantic inclination known to this board! Am looking forward to your contribution."}, {"response": 58, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (16:27)", "body": "Ann2-I thank you for your compliments. There will be more when I get either time or inspiration. Kali-I'm really looking forward to reading your stories too. And CHeryl-Worried????Because I like Gershwin or Bille Holiday. At least, you don't have to hear my voice. Belive me others haven't been as fortunate."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (18:05)", "body": "I have written Emma from the point of view of Jane and Frank If you're interested, there's a book called \"Jane Fairfax\" by Joan Aiken. Its from St. Martin's Press, ISBN 0312058845. It tells the story of Emma from Jane's point of view. I didn't entirely agree with her take on how Jane and Frank got together, but it was an enjoyable read."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (21:18)", "body": "I think we should start our own topic over at the Spring for New Emma scenes. Please do! I have a contribution to make, inspired by Cassandra's story. It still needs a little work, but I wasn't sure where to put it when it was done."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (01:44)", "body": "Susan do not hesitate to post at topic 173 (?) creative something...Go to it ,lady!"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (10:51)", "body": "I'll have to check that out, Kaff. I'm kinda torn b/t not wanting to pollute my mind with esssentially irrelevant stuff and reading everything I can about the characters I so loved in Austen's work. --- Yes, Ann2, I am weak indeed. But this level of peer pressure is unheard of in the normal course of life's events! --- Oh, and just for good measure...jeremy! JEREMY! JEREMY!!!! ;)"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (13:15)", "body": "oh sweetie! have another dream last night? ;-)"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (03:57)", "body": "I wish, Cheryl. I still haven't quite recovered form the last one. :}"}, {"response": 65, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (04:30)", "body": "I must admit that I am more in love with Mr. Knightley than Jeremy (in fact, I'm not in love with Jeremy at all, though I do think he is quite attractive... ) ... Can we say delusional? I got even Emma beat with lines like this...;)"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (04:34)", "body": "Since I'm up, more drool fodder:"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (10:08)", "body": "I've always liked that pic Kal, but it's also very frustrating...accustomed as I am to search for signs of dagginess, Jeremy's pose here is extremely vexing!"}, {"response": 68, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (18:52)", "body": "Oh Kali-THANK-YOU!THANK-YOU FOR THE PIC-one of my favorites, such a bewitching smile. I could say more, but this board is PG13. Everyone over at the Firth topic is always sighing over his gaze. And while not wishing to detract from Mr Firth's obvious charms, I must voice my admiration for beloved JN's gaze. Maybe it's not as intense as CF's, but all the same it is full of longing and vulnerability. One of my favs-the way he looks at Emma when she and Isabella are going to the dinner table, just before the cut to the Westons' Christmas party. I remember hearing a woman sigh in the theatre during this scene. It was probably me!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (21:30)", "body": "As the above seems to indicate, he's consciously aware of the dagginess factor. ;) I've never seen a daggy shot of Jeremy. Ever. He's immune. Ah, yes, his gaze! CF is good at the intense stare thing, but I'm afraid he's a one-trick pony. Jeremy's expressions are as diverse and endearing as they can get - that's talent! I love his reactions. The pianoforte scene is the best..."}, {"response": 70, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (00:34)", "body": "Kali: As the above seems to indicate, he's consciously aware of the dagginess factor. ;) I've never seen a daggy shot of Jeremy. Ever. He's immune. *pout* :-("}, {"response": 71, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (03:28)", "body": "Cheryl, Cheryl, Cheryl...;) I really like this one...Kaff has a bigger version which I use as my wallpaper..."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (14:01)", "body": "Come on, people. I need droolmates! I can't do this alone! Er, well, I CAN do it alone, but...;)"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (14:56)", "body": "Kali: Come on, people. I need droolmates! I can't do this alone! Er, well, I CAN do it alone, but...;) Yes dear, I know you can! ;-)"}, {"response": 74, "author": "sbuckley", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (15:05)", "body": "Hi all you Jeremy fans! May I comment briefly, but intensely on his FABULOUS voice? I caught a radio interview with him when he was in NYC and he was not only smart, he was FUNNY! He held his own with those ridiculous disc jockeys. He's such a babe. I actually prefer Mr. Knightly to Mr. Darcy -- he's so much more able to laugh at himself!!!!!"}, {"response": 75, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (15:08)", "body": "There you go, Kal."}, {"response": 76, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (15:39)", "body": "He's not only smart, but funny: You're just beginning to realize this??? HE IS Mr Knightley!!!!!!!!!!Plus, he's handsome, charming, self-confident(but never pushy or aggressive), sexy, vulnerable, witty, talented.....Kali-can you help me out with some more adjectives? And yes The Voice: Once could go on and on. Such a vulnerable, Cambridge-bred lilt that makes me positively weak in the knees. I can close my eyes and still here his Marry, me my wonderful, darling friend or whom are you going to dance with? I must get those EMMA TAPES!!!!! And KAli-Jeremy wallpaper-what a tantalizing idea!!!!!! I have one picture of him on my wall, from the proposal scene in Emma, where he's caressing GP's face. Thanks for the pic too-another favorite. He looks so handsome(when doesn't he?)-such an aristocratic profile and great hair."}, {"response": 77, "author": "sbuckley", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (15:46)", "body": "Cassandra -- you made me howl! I think I just ran into one heck of a Jeremy Northam fan. I concede to your enthusiasm. You're right -- HE IS MR. KNIGHTLY! And, the last I heard, (from his own lips no less) he was unattached. Is that still true?"}, {"response": 78, "author": "winter", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (16:20)", "body": "is he unattached!? of course! only for the moment, until he meets ME! our eyes will meet and he will instinctively KNOW that we are meant for one another ( cassandra, kali: what a coincidence: i have BOTH the picture above and the proposal scene blown up and hanging on my wall! great minds think alike!) ahh.. what i wouldn't do to hear that voice. many a time i've dreamt of having his VOICE being the first thing I hear in the morning.....oh, and imagine, a valentine's day with jeremy!!!! oh my, quick! i need a reality check... cold shower please!"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:33)", "body": "He sparkles, for Chrissake. More adjectives: impish, endearing, well-bred..."}, {"response": 80, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:35)", "body": "I think WInter's gone clinical on us...;) I colorprinted all the good Miramax JPEGS for my wall..."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:36)", "body": "Oh, and this is a little something I came up with at Arnessa's and Cheryl's requests: They said that there was no room in their fantasies for the woman who had been butt-up next to him, so I \"removed\" her..."}, {"response": 82, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:38)", "body": "Another adjective: PERFECT!!!"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "And not only does he posess all of the above named perfections, but he is a newly converted baseball fan! What more can we ask, indeed, what more can we need?"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (18:29)", "body": "Indeed, Mari...I can lure him in by taking him to Giants games! ;)"}, {"response": 85, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (19:38)", "body": "Hey-maybe he likes the BLue Jays! And Sweet Buckles-he is indeed unattached. He hasn't found me, I mean Emma yet!"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (23:44)", "body": "kali: They said that there was no room in their fantasies for the woman who had been butt-up next to him, so I \"removed\" her... Thank you dearest! *samooch* But was there nothing you could do about that pesky sheet?? ;-)"}, {"response": 87, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (23:57)", "body": "But was there nothing you could do about that pesky sheet?? ;-) Cheryl, you never fail to make me laugh -- you're one of the best reasons for signing onto the Spring!"}, {"response": 88, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (00:22)", "body": "Come to Pemberley Susan! ;-)"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (02:21)", "body": "No, Cass...I specifically remember him admiring one of the Giants' pitchers...(no, not in that way....)...;)"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (04:46)", "body": "We watched The Net again tonite...needless to say, we were happy campers. ;) My friends who were Northam virgins, however, reamrked that they were a little afraid of him after the whole Jack thing...so I hooked them for an Emma date come April...I think that they will see the light yet..."}, {"response": 91, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "JAck baby!!!!I think I know what I'm going to rent tonight. HAve you seen Carrington? Hmm-NOrtham virgins. Kali, I must again compliment you on your witty turn of phrase. And yes, I do think they will see the light come April. I took one of my friends to see Emma(never read the book, non-austen type who hasn't even seen P&P2) last summer and she cried and cried from the dance scene to the proposal scene. It was quite the bonding experience. To quote her: WHO IS HE? HE IS SUCH A BABE!AND HE LOVED HER SO!!! ANd not only that-the age difference between us and JN is about the same as that between Mr Knightley and Emma. I'm all astonishment. HE IS MR KNIGHTLEY!!!!!!"}, {"response": 92, "author": "winter", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (19:03)", "body": "i rented \"carrington\" when i was a \"northam-virgin\" a few months back. to be honest, I hated it! In fact, I stopped the tape about 15 minutes into the film and didn't bother to see it again. Imagine my surprise when I found out Jeremy was in it! How much screen time has he got? because i'd be much more willing to give carrington a second chance knowing that HE's in it. otherwise, I'll just take your words for it and assume that he's brilliant (and why wouldn't he be?)in it."}, {"response": 93, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "Just fast forward right near the end...;)"}, {"response": 94, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (06:13)", "body": "SNORT."}, {"response": 95, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (06:20)", "body": "Oh, Cass...re: crying through Emma ...I never cry at movies, but the \"With whom are you going to dance with?/With you if you will ask me!\" really knocked the wind out of me...each time I saw the film. And, of course, the proposal scene...I was bawling uncontrollably. Unabashed and uncompromised sobs. Ooh Baby."}, {"response": 96, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (11:42)", "body": "You too? I never cry either, its the Elinor in me. BUt, yes. YEs! The dance scene chokes me up-he can do more with a look, voice inflection than most men can do.......WEll, you get the point. And the proposal scene-the pained expression on his face-well, perhaps you are wise. SO vulnerable, so tortured-I rode through the rain and I would ride through a lot worse. HE is PERFECT! When I was complaining last night about this Mark Strong Guy and my Mother retorted, rather sarcastically, that come April I can watch/freeze frame JN as much as I please. She thinks I'm mad, yes madly, hopleslessly in love with MR KNightley. And Winter-regarding Carrington. It isn't a great movie. If you blink you miss him. Luckily I wasn't during a very interesting scene with ET, on a boat."}, {"response": 97, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (11:48)", "body": "I got out my trusty thesaurus: HE's magnetic,charismatic, masterful, ebullient, effervescent, scintillating. He ooozes charm from every pore-he's DELIGHTFUL, HE'S DELICIOUS, HE'S DE-LOVELY.......... HIs name is like a golden bell hung around my heart and everytime I think of him, the bell sings and rings: JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! I'm not really crazy, i just watched Cyrano last night."}, {"response": 98, "author": "winter", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (13:36)", "body": "and you all thought I was headed for the loony bin! ;-) This is a desperate situation ladies! We MUST get a Jeremy fix SOON or I'm afraid we shall all go mad! Not even one article, not one trailer for \"Mimic\". And I can't even find \"Fatal Inversion\" at the video store!!!!! oh well, i'm off to see Kenneth Branagh's 'Hamlet' this afternoon. maybe that'll distract me momentarily. But then again, I just may end up lamenting over the fact that Jeremy's not in it. Pining for Jeremy, winter"}, {"response": 99, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (14:24)", "body": "I'm sure it doesn't take much to distract you Winter."}, {"response": 100, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "Oh Cass darling, are you unwell? ;-)"}, {"response": 101, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (22:05)", "body": "Perfectly well, Cheryl Darling. I've been called kooky, even off the wall, but never that. Perhaps you were thinking of someone else?"}, {"response": 102, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (23:17)", "body": "Re: #98 from Winter My Dear Madam, I am greatly concerned with your health -- are you still suffering from this withdrawal? I have a possible remedy, at least in the short term. I tried to send you an email message which my server tells it has not yet been able to deliver. I reprint that message below: Winter: Such a cry for help; I simply cannot stand idly by. : ) I have a copy of \"Fatal Inversion\" which I would be most happy to lend you. Email your address to me (kelder@miworld.net at home, or my email at work is k_elder@fre.fsu.umd.edu) Your humble servant, madam, kathleen"}, {"response": 103, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (00:10)", "body": "Kathleen, could I possibly borrow it next? :)"}, {"response": 104, "author": "winter", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (02:10)", "body": "hello all... i'm perfectly well now. now that i've escaped the confines of my apartment and schoolwork (i'm a graduate student) and have seen 'hamlet', i feel like i'm somewhat 'over' my JN withdrawl. 'hamlet' was excellent, and kenneth branagh was superb as usual. though... i have to admit, i DID think of JN during one point of the film, when i thought how well he might've done as laertes (ophelia's brother). oh well, we can'r have it all, can we? kathleen! THANK YOU for you offer! i'm surprised that living out here in l.a., not one video store i've visited carries a copy of 'fatal inversion'. i'll ry other stores, and if not, i shall email you immediately and try to borrow your copy. i have no idea how much postage will be, but i can definitely reimburse you for whatever the shipping will cost. you're very generous!"}, {"response": 105, "author": "sage", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (16:48)", "body": "Last night's 1996 BBC adaptation of \"Jane Austen's EMMA\" proved the impresson of Jeremy Northam's Mr. Knightly so strong that it brew away the Mark Strong's into dust. Geez, I thought I got off from the JN addiction for a while, but this new EMMA broadcast brought back memories..."}, {"response": 106, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (18:00)", "body": "LADIES - I am most distressed and in need of help! (No, not about A&E EMMA) For some unknown reason, my Jeremy Northam board is being taken over by 13 year olds looking for dates!! Seriously!! I have no clue how or why they have chosen my site, but after talking with Amy I may have a solution. If each of you would pound my board with Jeremy drooling for the next few days, perhaps we can convince them that they are underaged and overmatched! They may have just decided that since the board is so quiet, they would borrow it - let's blow them away with Jeremy drooling! http://www.worldrch.com/northam/northamboard.html THANK YOU!!!"}, {"response": 107, "author": "winter", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "so someone else has noticed this really odd series of postings. kathleen, don't worry, i've posted something, and will probably add more of my drooling to get them off. we've got to get rid of these northamboard squatters... they're really bugging the s*** out of me."}, {"response": 108, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (18:44)", "body": "I feel like I'm in the twilight zone! I just deleted over 200 bogus messages! I've changed the name of the script - which means that you can post and reply to new messages (starting with the one posted by me, titled \"The New EMMA\") but will get error messages if you try to reply to any older messages. What a pain!!"}, {"response": 109, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (18:59)", "body": "All I can say is THANK-YOU JN!!!!"}, {"response": 110, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (19:18)", "body": "Oh, Kaf, was it vandalism -- or just stupidity?"}, {"response": 111, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "Okay - here's what happened. A couple of days ago I got an e-mail from someone who was unable to post to the board. It had been a few days since there had been a post, so I went and tried a test post. I got an error message. I checked the script, the permissions...then looked at the messages directory. The highest number post on my site was something like 245 - and yet there were files going all the way up to the high 300's in the messages directory! So when someone tried to post, the script tried t create file 246.html - but it already existed, so they got an error message! I was, and still am, clueless as to how this happened, but I deleted all of them, and was able to post. That's when the teen posting started. I have no idea how it could be being done, but I think that someone else is using my script! And I think that's why there were a couple of hundred bogus posts - they were all fake responses (no new text) to a real post - all with different \"people\" posting them. I think that whoever is using my script needed the count to be back in the high 300's - so he just created tons of fake posts. I've changed the name of the script, which will screw him up - but there's nothing to stop him from doing it again, unless I can figure out how its being done - and I don't have the slightest clue!!"}, {"response": 112, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "Kaf you want to just move it to bluemarble for a while?"}, {"response": 113, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (20:04)", "body": "Trouble with that Matt's script is it is so widely used."}, {"response": 114, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "Kaff, is it fixed yet? :)"}, {"response": 115, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (22:55)", "body": "RE#111 -- Kaffeine: I'm so sorry this happened to you -- how very vexing . Hope you got it fixed."}, {"response": 116, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (01:43)", "body": "Oh Honey Pie, my position is tragic - Come and show me the magic [more than show, if you please...]- Of your Hollywood song [hey wait, can you sing?]! Now Honey Pie, you were driving me frantic [still are]- Sail across the Atlantic [California's not really that bad...is it?] - To be where you belong... You became a legend of the silver screen [well, maybe not that old...], Oh, you're always on it [at least at my house...]... Now Honey Pie, you were driving me frantic - Sail across the Atlantic - To be where you belong...! Lennon/McCartney...with my own parenthetical interjections..."}, {"response": 117, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (02:20)", "body": "ROTFLOL Kal! I don't think this is what Paul had in mind when he wrote this! ;-)"}, {"response": 118, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (02:56)", "body": "I doubt he did, but it serves my purposes beautifully, don't you think? ;)"}, {"response": 119, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (12:14)", "body": "Ohh KAli! Bravo!! And I must admit the Beatles have the most appropriate lyrics. What do you think of a new Beatles movie with JN as one of the fab four? I hear he has an incredible singing voice(doesn't surprise me-that VOICE). I'd like to see him as Ringo, shaking his hair in time to the music. GREAT HAIR!!! I read somewhere that JN was considered as a possible James Bond, successor to Brosnan. The possibilities are endless!!!!!!!"}, {"response": 120, "author": "sbuckley", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (15:36)", "body": "JN as James Bond -- now there's a REAL Bond! Brosnan, pretty though he is, is WAY TOO SKINNY. I worry about him constantly getting hurt while I'm watching the film. Is that any way to react to Bond, James Bond? Our JN has a scrumptious bod. That photo shown earlier is SO beautiful. WHAT A MAN!"}, {"response": 121, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (17:23)", "body": "So far, so good. No mystery posts today. Let's hope its over and done with! Kali - LOL!!! You are truly warped...my favorite kind of person! Cas - Oooh, Bond...Jeremy Bond. I could indeed picture that! (Over and over again!)"}, {"response": 122, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (18:17)", "body": "And the VOICE: MY NAME IS BOND, JEREMY BOND!!!!! I confess i have never wanted to be a Bond girl so much."}, {"response": 123, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (20:14)", "body": "I love you guys. We're all warped together..."}, {"response": 124, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "I tend to identify with Xenia Onatopp, myself...;) She and Jack Devlin would make quite a pair, dontcha think?"}, {"response": 125, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (21:04)", "body": "Heres that lovely Cosmo pic again...thanks again, Anne... BTW, can somebody hunt up Jeremy's birthday? We know it has occurred in the last few months, but we know not exaclty when..."}, {"response": 126, "author": "winter", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "drool... drool...drool....and that unbuttoned shirt!!!!!"}, {"response": 127, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (21:49)", "body": "Ah ladies, will not sleep tonigh, not at all. This catches up with me and fast! To think I believe Emma 3 would have sustained me until April, I'm now in deep trouble, but thanks to this topic I can marvel and anticipating his lovely repartee aahhhhh"}, {"response": 128, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (00:15)", "body": "Well, kal, I like that pic much more than the other goatee one you showed me at PCR...I like it very much indeed...Hmmmmm.....;-)"}, {"response": 129, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (03:08)", "body": "Keep your shirt on Cheryl...;-P BTW, those of you who've been wondering about his Saks ads shouldn't hold your breath. The term DAGGY comes to mind - Jeremy ISN'T immune after all. It is nice to know, however, that Jeremy was never meant to be a male model (never trust a pretty man...)! ;) I fear I'm more in love than I ever was before...why should I expect him to look good in Prada when I don't?! ;)"}, {"response": 130, "author": "sage", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (14:18)", "body": "I am so glad to find this \"drool room.\" I was searching for the old P&P2 bulletin board site and finally reached the promised land. :) My major crush on JN started when I first saw him in EMMA. My Austen-ization actually started with 1995 BBC/A&E P&P; the very next day I went to see EMMA. JN's Mr. Knightly really charmed me to my core. I read all the JA's novels after that, and surprisingly the novel EMMA did not disappoint me about the film. I cruised around the net to find more about JN, and found some including Kaffeine's JN web page and the Net and EMMA promos. But at that time I couldn't find any site discussing about JN in this manner. I abandoned my search for JN for a while. I got on the net specifically for EMMA discussion purpose after the BBC/A&E version's broadcast and found so much lively discussion going on about JN!! I thank whomever started this fabulous forum."}, {"response": 131, "author": "sage", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (14:20)", "body": "I am so glad to find this \"drool room.\" I was searching for the old P&P2 bulletin board site and finally reached the promised land. :) My major crush on JN started when I first saw him in EMMA. My Austen-ization actually started with 1995 BBC/A&E P&P; the very next day I went to see EMMA. JN's Mr. Knightly really charmed me to my core. I read all the JA's novels after that, and surprisingly the novel EMMA did not disappoint me about the film. I cruised around the net to find more about JN, and found some including Kaffeine's JN web page and the Net and EMMA promos. But at that time I couldn't find any site discussing about JN in this manner. I abandoned my search for JN for a while. I got on the net specifically for EMMA discussion purpose after the BBC/A&E version's broadcast and found so much lively discussion going on about JN!! I thank whomever started this fabulous forum."}, {"response": 132, "author": "sage", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (14:52)", "body": "Gee, I don't mean to post twice the same thing. Sorry. This browser posts several times for some reason with one hit on the submit button. Any solutions? And I am sorry if this appears in multiples."}, {"response": 133, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "Whatever you do, don't hit RELOAD!!! ;) Welcome home, Sage. In whichever order you discovered Jeremy and Mr. Knightley, it all equals the same. I've been an Emma person for years, and I must say that Jeremy's boofull (a term I borrow regularly from Ralph Ellison) portrayal of my beloved George Knightley really endeared him to me. They have become one in the same. Words cannot express my appreciation. But you guys already knew that. Hey, isn't it ironic that the love of a particular man has brought us together like this? What an odd bonding-point for such a sisterhood! ;) Or are the catfights yet to come?"}, {"response": 134, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (17:52)", "body": "Or are the catfights yet to come? I think we're fine, unless Mr. Northam himself should drop by here - then its every woman for herself!! ;)"}, {"response": 135, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "I couldn't agree more-JN is MR KNightley!! The two have become one in my mind. He portrayed MR KNightley as I always imagined him-strength, honor, vulnerability, chivalry...I too cannot be more thankful. Inspired by KAli's lovely Beatles contribution and a certain awe-inspring pic above, I feel compelled once again to break out into song. This board is becoming a regular MGM-style musical. Long Ago and FAr away, I dreamed a dream And NOw that DReam is near, beside me(that is whenever MIramax finally releases it) LOng ago-the skies were overcast. But, now they're clear-at laaaaaaaaast Chills run up and Down my spine Aladdin's Lamp is mine The dream I dreamed is not denied me Just one look(last August) and I kneeeeew That all I longed for LOng ago WAs YOUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuu"}, {"response": 136, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (18:24)", "body": "BTW-I read that Jeremy is a Calvin Klein man. Supposedly, one of his favorite places is NY is the CK Store on Madison Avenue. I wonder if GP introduced him to it???"}, {"response": 137, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (22:46)", "body": "Mine's better. ;) Calvin Klein, huh? Not bad. I'm a Ralph Lauren girl myself."}, {"response": 138, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (14:11)", "body": "Mine's Better-Agreed! And I'm sure your voice is too. My voice's closest equivalent is Mary In P&P2. My Dad has made me promise never to sing or cook. My singing gives him migraine headaches and as for my cooking-I did it once and let's just say I have never seen anyone run so fast for the bathroom. BAck to JN: Comeon ladies let's make 200. Have any of you ever seen Jeremy on those chat shows-Regis, Letterman, ET....???? I vaguely remember him promoting the NET on some entertainemt show-they called him this classically, trained handsome British theatre actor. How banal can you get! The only other time-a brief tv soundbite on the Today show regarding Emma-once again handsome was used to describe him. I do recall JN saying in that lilting voice that playing Mr Knightley was a \"lovely\" thing for him to o. Sigh. In a way, I'm glad he doesn't appear on those shows, although I would love to see him. It's very dignified, Knightley-esque.....YES-SB-WHAT A MAN!!!"}, {"response": 139, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (22:00)", "body": "oh that picture above!!!!!!! I think that seals it for me; I've got it all figured out. It's Darcy that does it for CF, but JN's skills have nothing to do with Knightley, they're all his own!!!! ohhhh"}, {"response": 140, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (02:29)", "body": "Right, Cindy...that's what's so dangerous! I'm afriad I'll never get over it. *SIGH!* I have a Jeremy shrine above my computer...this is getting scary...Becky, you're wrong! I'm not being sane about this at all!!! :) BTW, their are some cool quicktime films over at the Carrington site... http://spider.media.philips.com/PFE/carrington/bio-northam.html"}, {"response": 141, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (12:23)", "body": "YES! DEFINITELY YES!!! He has spoiled me for other men and as I've told Cheryl-I don't want to be cured. Seeing him as the Mr KNightley I have always loved and dreamed about clinched it for me. And the more I read about him, the more enamoured of his charms and wit I become. IT's a hopeless case, is it not? KAff coined it-he is Jeremy KNightley. I'm still swooning over that Cosmo pic. As my granny would say-he has bedroom eyes, don't you think???"}, {"response": 142, "author": "sage", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (12:48)", "body": "Kali - Thanks for the welcome and \"reload\" warning. I do recall reloading the document.... As for JN being a CK man, he doesn't look like he's wearing them in different magazine photos. Giorgio Armani or Ferre might suit him better, but I hope he's not one of those men who are obsessed with fashion. He is just fine with a white T-shirt and blue jean. :) :) I for one thing want to see JN plugging his upcoming project on TV. To promote Emma, G. Paltrow went around quite a few talk shows, and I know Toni Corrette (sp?) did Conan O'Brien show. But I don't remember JN appearing any. I thought JN is pretty much unknown to the US audience so the shows booked the more recognized faces. ( Toni Corrette did Muriel's Wedding. Although JN did the NET, a box office success, the movie itself was relying on Sandra Bullock's charm. BTW I read he had difficult time u derstanding the character and motivation. ) But then I do have mixed feelings; I hope JN succeed in his career but I don't want him to be so popular that he is the first spot on Jay Leno or Letterman. I want to keep him confined to a relatively small circle. Yeah, I know it's selfish. Does JN work out regularly? And where ? :) :)"}, {"response": 143, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (15:04)", "body": "Yeah, that's my fear too, Sage. Wouldn't want him to become an infamous bastard or anything, would we now? ;) I, too, read that Jeremy was at loggerheads with others - and himself - over Jack. I know he's tried to defend Jack on occasion, saying that he was this tragic psycho at odds with himself over his love for Angela, but somehow, I just can't believe that. There's a little part of me deep-down that is attracted to the pure evil of the character (I guess that's the Xenia in me, Cass!). As far as Jeremy's natural sartorial instincts, I think they're quite good. He dresses himself very flatteringly...he's one of the few people who can dress youthfully and carelessly and get away with it. He's not one who can wear trendy little outfits, however, which is fine with me. Simple and/or classic seem to suit him best. Yes, Cass...he's hotter'n a pistol! But we already knew that. I'm sure there are plenty of real-life Mr. Knightleys out there, but for some reason, I never meet them. Until then, Jeremy is a safe point of obsession... ;)"}, {"response": 144, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (00:58)", "body": "Will fame spoil Jeremy?: I certainly hope not. BUt, from what I've read he seems pretty grounded-he likes to act, he's not in it for the bucks or to be the next HUgh Grant. \"THERE are better parts to play\". CAn't you just hear him say that in that VOICE??? THis self-confidence, of course, just makes him even hotter! Most men don't have a clue who they are. ANd as for the NET, I thought he was brilliant/sexy/even funny in a twisted way as JAck(yes XENA AND JD would make quite the pair)-loved the scarf arou d the waist touch. Maybe the JAck Devlin role was one of the reasons he didn't want to play Willoughby in S&S. HE didn't want to be typecast as the suave seducer. ANd SAge-I remember reading that JN was afraid they were going to fire him from the NET. SO he worked out before the filming of the \"boat scene\". HE think's he's an \"ugly bastard\". Perhaps, he should visit this board.. HAndsome, charming, witty, suave, self-assured and even modest. The man is not just hot, HE SIZZLES!!!"}, {"response": 145, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (04:07)", "body": "Those interested in viewing the Saks pages I scanned from DETAILS can find them here: No. 1 No. 2 No. 3 No. 4 No. 5 No. 6"}, {"response": 146, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (04:08)", "body": "JN seems to get off on a lot of boats, does he not? ;)"}, {"response": 147, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (04:09)", "body": "Those interested in viewing the Saks pages I scanned from DETAILS can find them here: No. 1 No. 2 No. 3 No. 4 No. 5 No. 6"}, {"response": 148, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (04:10)", "body": "AAAARRRGGGGGHHHH! I HATE Netscape sometimes!"}, {"response": 149, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (05:48)", "body": "Here's my favorite Jeremy pic, tied perhaps with the Cosmo and Knightley images above...oh, and those wedding shots from Emma...oh, hell! Here it is anyway..."}, {"response": 150, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (05:49)", "body": "Isn't he cute? :)"}, {"response": 151, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (05:50)", "body": "Woo-hoo! Messages number 150 and 151!!! We make catch that Firth guy yet..."}, {"response": 152, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (05:51)", "body": "Is it not blatantly obvious that I'm bullshitting? I'm going to bed now...beat me to death the next time I do this, okay? :)"}, {"response": 153, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (15:08)", "body": "favorite Jeremy pic, tied perhaps with the Cosmo pic and the KNightley images above..... It's hard to chose, is it not, in the face of such perfection? I agree-the Cosmo pic completely blew me away, and YES! YES!! I love the proposal scene shot above-he has that vulnerability in his eyes(Well, perhaps you are wise) and that hair. OOH BAby! I also love the shot from the Miramax book-he's about to kiss GP. LOve all of his profile shots. Doesn't our Jeremy KNightley have the most classically perfect features? I like his eyebrows. And the nose and the strong chin. IT denotes strength of characte . KAl-you KNow what pic I wish I had? The pianoforte scene-especially that devilish twinkle in his eyes when he catches GP's glance. And that smile! OOHHH!!!"}, {"response": 154, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "Let's keep drooling. We may make it to 200, yet. Many thanks to KAli, Grand Duchess of Northamland, for the peak at the Saks pics. Personally, I'm relieved he will never make it as one of those blank-slate models; He's his own MAN, possessing far too much wit and expression!!! I agree-I think he looks best simple, classic, like in the Cosmo PIC. REgarding the Saks pics, I especially like numbers one and six. HE looks GOOD in white. Can't you just see him, those dark, swarthy good looks, in an Armani, Gats y-esque, cream-coloured suit?"}, {"response": 155, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (15:36)", "body": "REgarding Boats-yes, they do seem to play quite the prominent role in his career. I think he's amused by it. Don't you love his eyes? They are like mocking, vulnerable, twinkling, devilish all at once. So expressive!"}, {"response": 156, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (20:51)", "body": "Yep, he's a little devil, he is. He's dark, and his features are sharp...and yep, those eyes throw sparks. And you wonder why Persephone was sad to leave her mother for life as Queen of the Underworld...silly girl! Cass, you know full well that my favorite Jeremy Moment is the expression during that pianoforte scene! That smirk, the snap in his eyes...the position in which he's sitting...the amused, jealous, disapproving, smitten, helpless expressions of both face and form. He really made me feel the gamut of emotions tearing up and down the poor man's body...yow! It was at once agonizing and hilarous to watch."}, {"response": 157, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (03:15)", "body": "Hey, check out Susan's super-spiffy, hormone-packed story downstairs in fanfic! Ooh baby...that George Knightley is sex maniac, and Emma a closet nymphomaniac! ;)"}, {"response": 158, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "Thanks for the tip, KAli! Susan-I loved it!!! You've inspired me too-I think I know how I'm going to continue Emma: DEja-vu. ANd KAli-the pianoforte scene is sheer brilliance!!! I felt every expression, range of emotions-He made me FEEL!!!!!! I love the way he looks when Frank Churchill gets up-so concerned, hurt, disaproving. He looked like he wanted to strangle him and the way he sinks down in the chair, and holds on to the armrests. OOOHHH!!! Best of all-the romantic way he looks at Emma before the duet starts-kinda like Gatsby. Just like Jordan, wE all want such a man to look at us like that, someday. OH and his body language-again so expressive. I love the way he slides over to Emma(such animal grace) and the way he said-you're playing was lovely. VERy Elegant! That VOICE! Another favorite Jeremy Knightley moment: the sexy, devilish, knowing look on his face when Elton sits between them and tells Mr KNightley that he will look after his dear sister-in-law."}, {"response": 159, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (16:59)", "body": "Kali, I like picture no. 1 the best. RED Hot!!!!"}, {"response": 160, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (20:32)", "body": "Can we now call this the Cass/Kali thread? Girls, you are far gone!"}, {"response": 161, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (23:04)", "body": "We know. Shoot us now."}, {"response": 162, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (23:12)", "body": "I don't think those of us in the Firth Drool are in much better shape, but what a fun addiction this is!"}, {"response": 163, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (00:54)", "body": "Just found this drool site..What a find..there's more than the JN web forum to look forward to. Love the Knightley side-pose from contributions way-above. Have not seen that one in any of the EMMA or JN web pages. Is this contributing towards the 200 mark??"}, {"response": 164, "author": "winter", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (02:25)", "body": "winter is back! i was gone for JUST 2 1/2 days this past weekend for a family reunion up in canada, and what do i find waiting at home for me?!? JEREMY DROOLING IS ALIVE AND WELL! Spring's just around the corner, baby, and you can definitely tell from this conference! i bought the details and cosmo magazines before i left this weekend, and completely forgot to take them along with me for portable drooling. and now, i've come home and my bofriend flew into town for the weekend, leaving me to drool in secret as he sleeps in the other room!!! the guilt! i have so much to catch up on, especially the fanfic! argh!"}, {"response": 165, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (03:43)", "body": "Ooh baby! Welcome, Serena. I recognize you from Kaff's (kathleen's) BB... I have a little collection of JN photos (including the profile shot) at http://www.spring.com/~dxiechkn/jeremy They're not laid out yet, but they're all in one place...;)"}, {"response": 166, "author": "sbuckley", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (09:19)", "body": "Kali, I just returned from viewing your collection of JN photos. How fun was it also to get a look at the SAKS photos. High fashion most often strikes me as just plain ugly, and to be honest, I much prefer our Jeremy in casual clothes and tossled hair. Some of my favorite pics of JN are those taken from THE NET. I couldn't believe the bad guy (I drooled over him when I saw the movie in theatre -- how often do you get a guy that turns you on at first sighting of him??!) was Mr. Knightly?! After seeing Emma, I dashed out to rent the video of THE NET and replayed my favorite moments over and over again. He's so incredibly seductive. I think he could talk me into just about anything and I consider myself pretty darn tough. He melts me."}, {"response": 167, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (16:17)", "body": "REG 160: BECKS: IT's a hopeless case. I've always been susceptible to crushes(the Cyrano factor). A certain MR Brosnan comes to mind and a few years ago I thought I was madly in love with Arthur Kent, swashbuckling journalist. Usually, I get over it(discover some imperfection like Anthony Patch in the Beautiful and the Damned) and/or get bored. BUt JEREMY!!!!! Sweet Buckles-I agree. He is incredibly seductive. I fear if I ever did meet the man(and what's the probability of that?) I would fall even more m dly in love with him!"}, {"response": 168, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (19:52)", "body": "One right after another, eh Cass? I hate to admit it, but that's me too...;} SB - you mean the first glimpse as in the back of his head at the airport? ;) Though I jest, I have to admit that Jeremy has the nicest reverse 3/4 view in existence...or at least in film!"}, {"response": 169, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (21:50)", "body": "Nice collection Kali. It's a nice touch, the occasional photo as I scroll down to this reply box. How difficult is it to 'paste' a photo here?? Had a great wallpaper, head- shot of JN in Fatal ..but it bothered the hubby and he vendalised it..so that's gone from the sceen. Anyone knows any news about who Jeremy is might currently be seeing??"}, {"response": 170, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "Welcome, Serena. See Ann's tag tutorial for information on how to put up pictures here, and do other tricks. http://www.spring.com/~anneh/tagsaaaa.html"}, {"response": 171, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (00:50)", "body": "Last we heard, he'd broken up with his steady of nine years. Who knows what he's up to nowadays. Might be interesting to find out. Sorry about your wallpaper!"}, {"response": 172, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (00:59)", "body": "Cass, I love your list. I forgot about dear Arthur. My younger bro was in Saudi, but watching CNN really got to be too much fun"}, {"response": 173, "author": "sbuckley", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (10:51)", "body": "Hi y'all -- do any of you know where I can get a copy of DETAILS which carried the Saks ads? Is it a magazine? When did it come out? DANKE!"}, {"response": 174, "author": "Gabrie", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (11:27)", "body": "Been unable to post here for ages but try to check in as often I can anyway.. I'm desperatly waiting for Mimic.. I mean who isn't? But in the mean time.. could anyone pleaze tell me from what number of Cosmo (is it the American edition?) that indeed VERY nice pic is from?? Hope to be able to find it here in Lund but if it's an old one that might be difficult... sigh.."}, {"response": 175, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (21:59)", "body": "Sweet - Details is a magazine. The Saks ad is in the current issue (March 97) with Jared Leto on the cover. Look through it before you buy it, though - the ad isn't in all the copies. I bought the magazine, and the ad isn't running in SE Michigan! :( Gabriella - The Cosmo issue is also the current issue (March 97), the American edition."}, {"response": 176, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (00:26)", "body": "Kaff, did you get the Saks catalog? I had to reorder cuz they only sent me the Folio, housewares, and women's apparel catalogs...:( Oh well. At least I have the DETAILS ads...:)"}, {"response": 177, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (00:29)", "body": "People...we're approaching 200...though the Firth topic is forever iterating to the nth power, we may yet catch up!"}, {"response": 178, "author": "sbuckley", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "This is my FAVORITE pic! I'm new at this tag thing, so forgive me if this attempt is a complete flop!"}, {"response": 179, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (11:51)", "body": "That is a lovely picture of people in love, Sweet. Sad."}, {"response": 180, "author": "sbuckley", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "Hey Amy - I like your Sweet followed by Sad. It is rather sad, isn't it? I have this darn pic pasted around my apartement, my cube at work and even in my Franklin Planner. This is my romantic goal, but let's be honest: what are the odds here? It's hard enough just finding a straight guy in NYC, let alone an available, sexy, charming, honest one! So -- my hunt continues. At least I'll recognize him when I find him -- he will, in many ways, resemble my Mr. Knightly. Does anyone know what kind of role JN plays in Mimic? Bad guy again? Is there any romance? (If not, what a WASTE!)"}, {"response": 181, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (14:36)", "body": "He plays some sort of scientist. Apparently, there is some sort of romance. --- I like that picture very much, as well. I have the archery scene and the non-touchy version of the proposal on the cork board above my desk. Emma is indeed a bittersweet story. Sweet becuase it ends so perfectly, and bitter because I doubt I'll ever be that lucky. Oh well...why aspire to relationships and marriage when no one so charming as Mr. Knightley ever finds me sufficienty charming myself? ;)"}, {"response": 182, "author": "sbuckley", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (14:41)", "body": "Wow! Talk about delusional! ;)"}, {"response": 183, "author": "Anne", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (14:48)", "body": "After seeing Jeremy in Emma, there was no comparison to A&E's Mr. Knightly. When is his Emma coming on video so I can slow motion the good parts? sbuckley, thanks so much for that picture! It will hold me over until the video comes out."}, {"response": 184, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (15:35)", "body": "SB: THANK-YOU!!!!!!! That is the exact picture that I have on my bedroom wall. Doesn't he have the most tender arms and kissable lips??? I adore that pose-so so protective, so warm. It's my goal too. I call it the \"forehead/nose- Astaire/Rogers Carioca dance embrace\". This REALLY IS SAD! I admit I've gone out with lesser beings. It's bad enough comparing them to Mr KNightley or Mr Darcy, but now I also compare them to Jeremy KNightley! I try to think optimistically, like Kali. There MUST be real life Mr K ightley's out there, although I too have yet to meet any. Sigh. Cindy and Kali: I really am a heartless guttersnipe-a regular la donna e mobile. And yes-Cindy watching CNN did become way too much fun! He will always be dear Arthur to me too. That leather jacket and fearless expression in his eye:\"Patriot missiles-FOCUS! Focus! He has great dark hair and a sexy, resonant,deep voice-two of my basic requirements."}, {"response": 185, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (15:38)", "body": "Does anyone know what kind of role JN plays in Mimic? Bad guy again? Is there any romance? From Cosmo: \"...Not that the 35-year-old thespian doesn't have a tender side. In fact, he considers MIMIC to be first and foremost a love story. 'Well, its a modern apocalyptic-horror-sci-fi-thriller-love story, ' he says with a laugh. 'Use as many hyphens as you like.'\""}, {"response": 186, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (15:47)", "body": "SB: \"What a waste!\" No kidding! And I read somewhere that he's never been more unemployed as an actor. Those brainless, Hollywood twits.... My dear sister subscribes to a lot of Brit magazines. This week she sent me a review of Emma, together with a very charming pic of JN-proposal scene again! Anyways, they called Jeremy \"this GORGE BIT OF STUFF-the suave, dashing Mr Knightley. And when Emma finally realizes that she's in love with him....Ooh, it makes you go all warm inside!\" I couldn't have said it better."}, {"response": 187, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (15:50)", "body": "with a laugh, \"Use as many hypens as you like....\" OH God! The more I read, the more I'm in love with this MAN!!!!!"}, {"response": 188, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "Someone hit me with his address or email quick!! Who, if any, is this man seen with?? Someone in the other Bulletin B. said ages ago, that she had met Jereny in a theather class in London and she found him intelligent and nice in person. Don't think I could have been in a class with him and still walked out looking respectable or sounding that sober."}, {"response": 189, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:26)", "body": "No kidding, Serena. More photos: This is a smaller version of a photo I posted weeks ago..."}, {"response": 190, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:28)", "body": "Oops...try again..."}, {"response": 191, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "Re: the Cosmo snippets: Isn't this guy the most lovable goofball you've ever witnessed?"}, {"response": 192, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:45)", "body": "It's nice to keep on witnessing"}, {"response": 193, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "Woo-hoo! Just seven more messages, and we're at the magic 200 mark! Keep posting, ladies... BTW, Cass...what is a \"guttersnipe\"? ;}"}, {"response": 194, "author": "winter", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (22:55)", "body": "oh yes, please! Who IS this person who had a class with JN in London? I'm dying to know more! He does strike me as a very charming and intelligent person, and having read the latest interview in Cosmo makes me love him even more! The little snippet about him having to sell his flat in London has got me day-dreaming again: I'd gladly house-sit for him if he needed someone to look after his flat!!!!! and what a homecoming he should after after his exhausting schedule... let ME recharge those batteries for you, baby!!!!"}, {"response": 195, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (01:37)", "body": "Get in line, Honey."}, {"response": 196, "author": "Gabrie", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (09:49)", "body": "the more I read about him the better it sounds.. Jeremy Jeremy.. does he even know what he does to us all?? thanx for the info Kaffeine! I'm off to invest in a copy of Cosmo now..66Skr (about 6 dollars I think??)..luckily I got my studentsgrant today :)"}, {"response": 197, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "Wendy posted a blurb in the Ramble topic which I think is important for us to remember whilst singing the praises of our Jeremy: \"Small minds discuss persons. Average minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.\" Not to throw a wet blanket on the drooling, but it got me contemplating our direction here (that and a recent discussion with my dearest Cassandra). If all we do is post \"He's so cute.\" and \"Yeah, isn't he?\" we'll run out of stuff to talk about, and we'll get bored! At this point, then, it might be helpful to discuss more about WHY we like him so much...to delve into what lurks in our minds and hearts (after all, the Shadow knows, so why can't the rest of us?)...are we bored, obsessive, desperate, hor y, what? And on his part...is it just becuase he's a good-looking, seemingly nice guy, or is there really a divine spark in his acting which draws us to him? Maybe I'm asking for a solution to a question of the ages, but I've always wondered...what is the anatomy of a crush? Is it similar for everyone?"}, {"response": 198, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (17:25)", "body": "Since I brought it up, I'll go first (unless some Speedemon has beaten me to the punch)...but this is nothing new. My fondness for Jeremy springs mainly from his excellent portrayal of my Mr. Knightley. Before I saw Emma last fall, I didn't even know who he was. After seeing the film, I was overcome with a sense of gratitude and respect, as the guy breathed life into this most beloved character...it was almost a cosmic-channeling thing! Of course, I thought he was incredibly attractive, b t I assumed that it was the character (he is an ACTOR, after all). After I saw him in The Net soon after, I realized that even then there was still something there...an aura? I don't know, but I found myself admitting some sort of subsurface similarities between my attraction for Mr. Knightley and my fascination with Jack Devlin. I know what you're thinking...could that similarity be...Jeremy Northam?! Yes and no, because at that point, pragmatist that I am, I wan't even thinking about the real person behind the portrayals. There was just this strange attraction to Jeremy's roles coupled with a nagging sensation in my gut that I was going to have to displace Colin Firth as my favorite actor. I think it was the Fiennes-Binoche Wuthering Heights , along with additional viewings of Emma and The Net (with my eighteen-year-old brother, who laughed through the whole thing), which actually put me over the edge. When Jeremy's portrayal forced me to appreciate even Hindley Earnshaw, it was over. But for each of those three roles, the appreciation is different...I'm completely in love with Mr. Knightley (who isn't? Who never has been?), perversely attracted to Jack, and Hind ey - well, I had a tremendous respect for the performance (imagine that!), and that was the clinker. Since, I've also learned that he has character, which doesn't hurt. He's a classically-trained ACTOR, who's been around onstage for quite awhile, and he hates LA. Those two facts speak volumes to a Californian! And the awkwardness of the Saks ads I found particularly endearing. As Cass often says, \"He IS Mr. Knightley!\" Well, not exactly, but he will be for somebody, I've no doubt...unle s fame changes him, but that's another story. As most of you already know, I HATE fawning over famous people - esp. actors. It gives me the willies. I know I'm an obsessive personality, and perhaps it's the fear that I'll actually develop a useless devotion when there are so many real people out there to care about. But in this case, I have made an exception for Jeremy. But it's not one of those \"Oh-my-God-I-have-to-marry-this-man\" crushes, it's more cosmic...he's a guy I can appreciate on so many different levels. Just knowing that people like eremy Northam exist in this world...and in the film industry...is a comfort."}, {"response": 199, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (18:02)", "body": "Good idea, Kal. Anatomy of a crush. A good topic for our band, it seems."}, {"response": 200, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (18:55)", "body": "Shall we give it it's own topic? ;) Yay! Message 200!"}, {"response": 201, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (19:53)", "body": ".. (Kali's) My fondness for Jeremy springs mainly from his excellent portrayal of my Mr. Knightley - I have to admit that was the underlining factor - him playing out an endearing Jane Austen hero - and doing it so credibly too. I was 'forced' to watch The Net twice (being on economy seats with their one-movie-channel and to-ing & fro-ing within the same month), I saw Sandra Bullock and couldn't, for the life of me, remember who the villian was, 'cept for that wonderful accent and speaking voice of his. Having now rented The Net twice and willingly, I cannot say that I watched it as I would a thriller (Oh no! don't let the bad guy catch-up feel) - I spent the entire time hoping for him to show up and thought hey! if I had to be illed off, I wouldn't mind being pursued by this person. Either this JN obsession is beyond comprehension or (I suspect this might be it) he didn't come across too villianeous - his bad role was way too unbelievable. Maybe he was too gentle for the role.??!! (you gals still talking to me after this?) I then rushed out and rented \"carrington\" and spent an agonised 45 mins with Emma T. and decided I would cheat and fast-forward. Then aghast!! looked great steering the sail-boat - what's in the script for him?? and the let down - 2 mins airing time and a movie I couldn't recommend friends. Read up on his life, family, his interviews, looked at his pics and guess what? He's the regular nice guy (melting voice additional) who appears clear-sighted and humourous. Rushed our and watched Emma2 again twice over and suspect \"he is Mr Knightley\" (Cassendra permiting). That must be the attraction."}, {"response": 202, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (19:57)", "body": "Message 201-we are gaining steadily on Mr Firth! Guttersnipe: I think it means a mean-spirited, ill-mannered wench, mind and manners in the gutter. Oddly enough this has become somewhat of a term of affection, bestowed on me by my father. He thinks he's Henry Higgins. We bonded over Mr Fair Lady. Love the variation on the proposal scene. HE has that longing \"gaze\"!"}, {"response": 203, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "\"Run, Angela, run! - but not too fast!\" ;)"}, {"response": 204, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:30)", "body": "Dearest KAli: Let us never be boring! I think this is a great point of conversation-the reasons for our mutual attraction to JN. Like you said-we all come from different backgrounds, but have managed to form an odd sisterhood over one man. And what a MAN! Strangely enough, I did see JN before Emma. Pure coincedence-the movie that I wanted to see was sold out so I ended up seeing the Net. He really jumps out at you on the screen-\"star quality\". Even then, I recognized his magnetism and talent as an actor(and who am I kidding), and of course his striking dark, good looks. But, it was only when I saw him as Mr KNightley that I really began to take notice of him. Again strangely enough, a few weeks before the movie came out I saw a promo of Emma on television; they were discussing the recent onslaught of Austen adapataions. Anyways-they showed the archery scene and within minutes, I recognized him as that talented, handsome actor from the net. Having not seen him in Carrington or anything else, I was immediately seized by the notion that (1)this looked like a wonderful, charming adaptation of one of my all-time favorite novels and (2) that JN would make a terrific Mr Knightley. He really draws you in. Anyways, when I finally did see the film, I was moved, charmed. I laughed. I cried. I sighed. I went back and saw it again and again and again and again. I don't think I will ever recover from his \"whom are you going to dance with\". Obviously, my attraction was initially based on his excellent portrayal of Mr Knightley. As I've said-he played Mr KNightley the way that I had always imagined him: vulnerability, chivalry, and strength of mind and character. He is a brilliant actor-I can and have talked volumes about my admiration for his subtle reactions, voice inflections, and expressions. I'd like to liken this \"crush\" to Roxanne's problem in Cyrano(that's the dramatic Mary in me). LIke Roxanne, I'm blindly attracted to Christian's good looks,(JN) but in love with Cyrano(the soul-Mr KNightley)-but I can't. The more I read about JN-this classically trained, bright, witty, funny, charming actor-the more I admire him. He's definitely not the typical Hollywood actor type: all braun and no brains. I think basically we are all bored romantics and JN is definitely, at least for the moment, the perfect canvass on which to paint our dreams."}, {"response": 205, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (01:22)", "body": "Have you seen Firth's drool - it's covered with amazing pictures and even one of JN??.. I was so impressed that I'm going to TRY to post my previous wallpaper that did wonders for my day.. well, if the pic. doesn't appear, we'll still gain by one extra mail here.."}, {"response": 206, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (01:25)", "body": "oops.. back to tag tutorial..will try again later."}, {"response": 207, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (03:31)", "body": "Well here goes.. Am I the last to find out? I came across a mailing address for Mr Northam.. PMK 1775 Broadway, Suite 701 New York, NY 10019"}, {"response": 208, "author": "winter", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (11:23)", "body": "SERENA!!!!! You're a goddess! I could just hug you to pieces! What a gift you've given! Finally, we have an address for him! I'm just afraid of what I should write, so as not make a complete buffoon of myself. Wouldn't want to look too obsessive now, would I?"}, {"response": 209, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (12:44)", "body": "Winter: Wouldn't want to look too obsessive now, would I? You? Nyah, no chance! ;-)"}, {"response": 210, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (13:08)", "body": "Down Winter! Down girl!!"}, {"response": 211, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "I think that perhaps the best way to ingratiate oneself to Mr. Northam - should one actually get a real chance to meet or correspond with him - lies in the appearance of disinterest. Obsessive fans, as necessary as they are to one's subsistance as a famous person, are still a put-off. So, lust in your heart, but DON'T send anything to him. The results will only disappoint you...Cass, care to share your PB fan letter story? ;)"}, {"response": 212, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (16:23)", "body": "Of course-Kali. And I agree about the \"appearance of disinterest\" too. Take it from Jimmy Carter-lust in your heart. Before, I bore you with my sad Pierce Brosanan tale, I must state that I have matured quite a bit since then. Smile. Anyways-when I was ten, those younger, more vulnerable years, I formed my first \"crush\" on PB, or more accurately the character he played on Remington Steele: that nameless, forever mysterious, charming, suave movie buff. I was so smitten by his blues eyes and mysterious past that for the first and only time in my life I wrote a fan letter. SEVERAL months later, I received a photocopied letter of acknowledgment and a an offer to join his fan club: please enclose money. Naturally, I tore it up. That was m first Araby. I tend to agree with Kali. Generally, swooning over movie stars/tv stars/personalitites, and especially autograph seeking/fan letters, is inane. I have always said that I could never date, much less marry an actor. Warning: they make their living(if they are in the lucky 5%) \"playing\" interesting, fascinating, complicated, witty individuals. In reality, they are not-usually the complete opposite. The problem(if it is a problem) with Jeremy, then, is that he doesn't seem(I too hope fame doesn't go to his head)to fit into this model. We've all said how much we admire JN, not just the Mr Knightley persona. He genuinely appears to be bright, witty, funny, talented(classically-trained-Royal Shakespeare Society), confident, and at ease with himself. Any further comments/suggestions?????"}, {"response": 213, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (16:31)", "body": "BTW-(since this still is primarily a drool topic)Serena: I love the pic above, that tossled, casual look. OOH BABY!!"}, {"response": 214, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "I once posted the unimaginable question, is there really life after JN's Knightley?? Cassendra..there might be no cure for this JN infatuation unless someone writes an all-powering letter and gets asks to join the queue and pay-up..and reports it at drool. But until something happens to break his usual charming interviews, reality check is all I have going for me. I'll even settle for an autographed something or other!! God, I must be insane!! Perhaps he's not spotted as much in the celebrity circle yet and so there's NO horrific tale to break his charm .. this brings to mind one of his usual realistic, yet witty interviews where he said that he's not really recognised in public at that time and so could get about fairly easily. On a parting note of another interview where he spoke of a failed-romance after nine years and he ended with \"maybe I don't have the Knightley charm.. There is no cure for me at this stage!! I don't want to get over t is yet anyway.. we're having too fun in here.. Move aside David Duchovny!! Phew!!,,never thought I would get over him.."}, {"response": 215, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (12:03)", "body": "Is there life after JN's Mr KNightley? That is a good question. LIke you I'm having too much fun and JN is just so irresistable and delightful! I think this is the longest \"crush\" I have ever had-another testament to our JN's magic. As my dearest Kali said: Jeremy is a safe object of obsession, until some real-life Mr KNightley comes along, riding in the rain. I too read that article about his not having Mr Knightley's charm. I'm also certain that line was delivered with one of those bewitching, bewildering KNightely smirks, ie: pianoforte scene. You know, I think I've figured it out; That's it!! The MAN is too damned charming!! Kissenger was wrong. Charm is the greatest aphrodisiac."}, {"response": 216, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (12:13)", "body": "Just to continue the \"crush\" discussion, I'm just interested in why we develop crushes anyways? Does it fill some secret, deeply-hidden longings/desire? Are we just bored? Or are we hungry, perversely attracted by the \"unattainable\"? Like poor Scarlett, we want the most what we can't have. I'm probably all three! Perhaps a better question, then, is why we, along with so many other women, have fallen so madly in love with one George KNightley. WHat is it about this character? And what is it about JN as MR Knightley that has sent us fluttering and trembling like Mrs Bennet?"}, {"response": 217, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "...and we dress the object up in a fine suit of clothes of our own creation, even if it doesn't really fit... I think there's a direct correlation between stressful periods in life and crushes..."}, {"response": 218, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (12:09)", "body": "Defintely Kali! Good old Yeats had it right on the money \"we clothe in the colours of our longing...\" Hemingway wasn't too far off either. I like the way he ended The Sun also Rises: Lady Brett tells Jake that they could have had such a wonderful time together. And of course, Jake's retort is: \"Isn't it pretty to think so?\" You know something dearest, I think that in addition to being Emma/Marianne, there's a lot of Gatsby: \"he knew that when he kissed this girl and forever wed his unutterable visions to her perishable breath, his mind would never romp again like the mind of God.\" Hmmm, how about Jeremy as Gatsby????"}, {"response": 219, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (12:13)", "body": "Kali-You were dead on when you said that the magic of Emma is how this deluded, ,\"doomed to blindness\", young woman suddenly realizes that the perfect, most charming man is right beside her. And the torture that she might lose him! Only, to have her affection returned in the most complete and romantic way. That's what we all long for and want! I'm not willing to accept, yet, that, it's just an illusion. \"So we beat on, boats against the current...\" I think we're starting to depress everyone!"}, {"response": 220, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (03:54)", "body": "Thanks. BTW, I got the \"suit of clothes\" paraphrase from Scarlett herself, when she goes home to Rhett after Melanie's death and her subsequent epiphany re: Ashley...but I must admit, it applies to many of our situations. Jeremy as Gatsby? Could work. I see myself more as Gatsby...building myself up to be worthy of somebody who can never appreciate me. But that's WAY in the past now...best not to think about it anymore."}, {"response": 221, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (04:01)", "body": "Re: Roxanne...that woman must be an allusion to Penelope...waiting at the convent, embroidering, even, for Pete's sake...waiting...and then Cyrano comes back...Maybe I just have The Odyssey on the brain, Cass...;) Hey, speaking of Homeric heroes, what say you all to Jeremy as the Trojan Prince Hector...? What a guy."}, {"response": 222, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "Best not to think about it anymore:I've tried to put Gatsby behind me too and it never works. I used to believe too that the rock of the world was founded securely on a fairy's wing, but life changes you/hardens you. For which, I am eternally thankful-you need to be tough to survive. I don't think I would recognize the girl I was five years ago, nor would I desire to. However like Nick, that heightened sensitivity to the promises of life always move me:re-creating himself in his own image, from Jimmy Gatz to Jay Gatsby stretching his arms out to the green light on Daisy's dock. I think all of my favorite characters are essentially deluded: Gatsby, Scarlett, Emma.... As for Roxanne-I tend to feel the way some people feel about Fanny Price: superficial, silly witch: The voice in the dark, that was you... Cyrano deserved better. He was deluded too. You know Jeremy might make a wonderful Cyrano-he has that VOICE! I think I'm in love with Cyrano, Rhett Butler, Mr Knightely and Mr Darcy. But, that's another story and it's scary how much in common they have."}, {"response": 223, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (13:18)", "body": "REg. Jeremy as Prince Hector....My knowledge of the Iliad and the Odyssey is pretty pathetic. I pain over it during my quiter hours. They're fighting over Helen of Troy, right??? I'm certain, though, he would be wonderful-the costumes most becoming to that gorgeous physique! HEy KAli-tell us about Fatal Inversion?"}, {"response": 224, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (13:23)", "body": "Thanks, Cassandra. Why do we like them deluded?"}, {"response": 225, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (19:39)", "body": "Yes.. Kali, put your schoolwork/ thesis aside.. it'll still be there later. FATAL INVERSION FATAL INVERSION FATAL INVERSION!!!! be descriptive ..please.. pretty pictures too!!"}, {"response": 226, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:13)", "body": "Cassandra, I've been trying to e-mail you with no success. Please e-mail me and tell me how --- I want to apologize!"}, {"response": 227, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (00:37)", "body": "Susan Darling-apologize for what???? You know I adore you! Good Question Amy! I think I'll wait first for Kali's reply before I try to answer that one. There's something terribly romantic about deluded heroes/heroines and stories of unrequited love. Call me Marianne. Emma was one of the lucky ones. That's why we love it so. It has the perfect ending with the perfect match."}, {"response": 228, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (03:37)", "body": "Fatal Inversion - sex and full-frontal nudity. 'Nuff said. Deluded heroes/heroines...Hell, I don't know...it's the question of the ages. There's something bewitching in the thought that you can achieve and attain exactly what you desire, I think. We like to see people like Gatsby create life - play God - become master of their own lives. There's also the fact that we're all deluded to a certain extent, and we appreciate seeing it in others we admire...no one sees the truth with perfect clarity...if we did, life would be boring...we'd sit around like Q's, knowi g all the answers, knowing all the questions. life, love, pursuit of happiness - the romantic and democratic ideals - would mean nothing. I think the definition of humanity is our imperfect vision, our imperfect knowledge...Even the most remarkable beings...perhaps ESPECIALLY the most remarkable beings...are defined by their endless red-herring chase in pursuit of perfection. It's late. I gotta go to bed."}, {"response": 229, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (19:30)", "body": "There's a wonderful short story, my all-time favorite, by James Joyce(\"Araby\") that articulates, better than I ever could, the deluded/romantic hero and his eventual disullisionment. The hero is a male equivalent of Marianne Dashwood. He lives in this dark, book-filled house and is obsessed by two things: the town fair or araby and his best friend's sister. Like the fair, he imposes his own romantic, idealistic dreams on the \"girl\": \"My body was like a harp and her every word and gesture were like fingers playing along the strings.\" Anyways, he does get to go the fair and it is a complete sham-noisy, insidious...Plus, he sees his beloved there and she's far from the good catholic girl he placed on the pedestal. End of story. Joyce must be rolling over in his grave. As my father says, I have had plenty of Araby's, although I'm not sure this completely fits the Jeremy situation. Any thoughts???"}, {"response": 230, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (19:35)", "body": "\"SEx and full-frontal nudity...\" I can almost hear the mad dash to the video store. How did Kathleen get her copy?"}, {"response": 231, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "Cassandra: How did Kathleen get her copy? I purchased it from a catalogue. I was trying to find it in my current video catalogues, but the best I can see is Fatal Inversion as part of a 3-video set: BBC Mysteries (Ruth Rendell/Barbara Vine mysteries), for $59.95. I remember paying about $15 for just FI. (The order number is A4644 in Public TV Videofinders Collection: telephone 1-800-799-1199, btw.) And, Kali, is that all you have to say? No other comments on his own delicious looking self? :p"}, {"response": 232, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "I have had plenty of Araby's, although I'm not sure this completely fits the Jeremy situation. Okay, 'splain! As far as the Jeremy obsession many of us have, I think it does...we get obsessive about people, famous or otherwise, because we think they're PERFECT...we think they're better than what we are or what we have, or because they will take us someplace better than where we're at. We're bored, confused, stressed, or upset, and they're an escape...a pleasant alternative to the maddening coldness of reality. But what are they, really? Illusions. They're not perfect...they're not what we made them out to be. We dress them in the suit of pretty clothes whether it fits them or not. And then when we finally look at them straight on, we see how silly they look in those stupid outfits we squeezed them into, and realize that they aren't any better than we are. Call me faithless, but I'm just waiting for the man to prove himself to be a jerk... As far as Fatal Inversion , it was delicious. The man is gorgeous. His character is obnoxious, but believe me, it's a very Jeremy role. He portrays Rufus, the selfish, sarcastic, playerfuck friend of a timid, dorky young guy who inherits a beautiful old house from his great uncle. Anyway, Rufus persuades his friend, Adam, to move into the place for the summer, and so the two of them do. And then things go down hill from there. His best line comes when they first visit the house, on a wh m. Adam says something about wishing he could follow Rufus to med school instead of going back to Cambridge, to which he replies, \"oh, come on...they don't read classics in med school. Your dream is to sit under trees reading Ovid and dreaming about girls in long, flowy dresses...\""}, {"response": 233, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (00:23)", "body": "Kathleen dear-THANK-YOU for the information! I can't wait to see FI! And KAl-this is starting to feel like confession! Well, what I meant was that being the Marianne Dashwood/Emma/Gatsby girl that I am, I tend to build things/people/events up in my mind, so that they could never hope to meet my expectations. I'm forever disapointed. A sub-Araby would be my PB tale, and on a bigger note, I once admired this famous Canadian poilitician: she was a first in everything. But, when I finally met her, she was far from charming! As for the Jeremy situation, I think the story does apply. I think I am like you-waiting for him to slip up and tarnish the Knightley armour. Isn't that perverse/an eternal contradiction? I think he's wonderful and charming, but I expect him to disapoint me. One problem: at least for the moment, the more I read about him, the more enamoured I become. HIs wit, in particular, impress me. That's in short supply today! Usually, distance is savoury. The closer you get, the more imperfections you see(the suit o clothes doesn't fit) and the illusion is lost! Or, on second thought-you just get bored. Maybe we're over-intellectualizing. Like you said-the MAN is gorgeous!"}, {"response": 234, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (00:24)", "body": "Anyone know what Jeremy's next project is??"}, {"response": 235, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "Anyone know what Jeremy's next project is?? You mean, after MIMIC? I really don't know. I'm still hoping that they finally release VOICES FROM A LOCKED ROOM, which got good reviews at Sundance last year, but has never been released (and also features full frontal nudity). BTW, I got FATAL INVERSION for about $25 from CD World - http://www.cdworld.com/"}, {"response": 236, "author": "winter", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "it's winter's time to drool! got the copy of \"fatal inversion\" from kali (who got it from kathleen), and i'm just about to settle down in front of the TV with a nice big bowl of capn' crunchberries and the remote control within easy reach for those pauses and rewinds one usually needs in order to witness Jeremy in his full glory. this has been one GREAT week, everyone: Monday I got my copy of \"the making of P&P\" in the mail, Wednesday I got my copy of \"Darcy's story\" (thanks to Maud for selling me her extra copy) and TODAY, I get this wonderful package in the mail from Kali... from the happy mood i've been in all week, no one would be able to tell that I'm also in the midst of preparing to submit my MA thesis propsal! as linda richman would say, \"You're like buddah...\" I'm swimmin' in Land 'O Lakes!! (my Fatal inversion review to come soon)"}, {"response": 237, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (01:46)", "body": "Winter, do you by any chance go to USC? --- As far as illusions, yes...I've been disappointed enough times to be wary. But you're right - we are overintellectualizing...for why should we CARE? Oh well...I guess I'm not so jaded that I've lost my sense of hope...I do wish that life will bring me happy surprises after all...whether or not one of them happens to be Jeremy! ;)"}, {"response": 238, "author": "winter", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:06)", "body": "hello all! my fatal inversion 'review' will probably be posted this afternoon... i've got a couple of errands to run, including mailing the tape off back to kathleen. kali: i did my undergrad at usc, and now i'm at ucla, just across town. do you know anyone at usc? yes, yes, i realize the two campuses are sworn enemies (just like cal and stanford rivalary), but it doesn't mean too much, especially when you're not into football at all! BTW, i noticed (from the pkg) you are in berkeley. i grew up not very far from there-- richmond to be exact. 'i think it the dearest place in the world!' (but, most people wouldn't!)."}, {"response": 239, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:25)", "body": "WE are all breathlessly awaiting your review-Winter. No one is better equipped to write it than you. And Kali-I never want to become jaded. Wary and skeptical-Yes. But, people who fall back on cynicism-are doing just that. It's a cop-out for not living, following their dreams. I don't think I see la vie en rose, nor would I want to(that's dangerous). But, I understand what you mean about \"happy surprises.\" I doon't ever want to lose hope or give up. I'm kind of glad I haven't reached my \"peak\" yet, like a certain Tom Buchanan: everything else is anti-climatic. Its been my experience that even at low poin s, something, sometime always happens-counterbalance effect. You really have to know yourself and hang in. And Hell-keep believing in and reaching out for the green light. The alternative, after all, is pretty dismal and BORING!!!"}, {"response": 240, "author": "winter", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "\"Fatal Inversion\" (1992, BBC) Adam Verne-Smith has just inherited a fairly large estate from his great-uncle, who has died. At the age of 19, Adam is hardly ready, or even responsible enough to keep \"Wyvis Hall,\" and so decides to put it up on them market promptly, and keep the profits. It\ufffds the summer of \ufffd79, he\ufffds on holiday from Cambridge, and plans to go to Greece before the school term begins again. \ufffdEnter Rufus (Jeremy Northam\ufffdsigh). Best-friend, pre-med student(aspiring OB-GYN) and ultimate baddie (!). If you thought YOU had it rough with junior high school, peer-pressuring friends, Rufus is by far, the worst. He drinks and smokes like there\ufffds no tomorrow, wears sunglasses both indoors and outdoors and looks devastatingly beautiful in all scenes, and is just one of those guys who heartlessly picks up women and sleeps with them, cares for no one but himself, takes every chance he can get to be cheek , and most of all, unconsciously makes you fall in love with him. I won\ufffdt give you the details, but this is basically a mystery, with scenes cutting between the summer of \ufffd79 and 12 years later. Present day, something\ufffds been dug up in the backyard of Wyvis Hall, and that something traces back to that carefree summer, when Adam and Rufus have the time of their lives in the English country with some other guests, rather than go off to Greece as previously planned. It\ufffds drool time: JN is HOT in every scene: by look, mannerisms, dialogue and overall presence. Though I wouldn\ufffdt say he\ufffds the main character, he still get more than ample time for you to drool. As a 19-20 year old, he plays it off very well. Cheeky and obnoxious are the two words that come to mind when I first got to know his character. But don\ufffdt worry, he grows on you. Maybe the way Harrison Ford seems sexy when he plays the same sort of a**hole renegade in \ufffdStar Wars.\ufffd You\ufffdll love their \"frolicks\" through the countryside--- two scenes come to mind: 1) Adam and Rufus go hunting wearing nothing but their briefs, socks and a rifle slung over their shoulder! 2) The swim! Absolutely, 100% butt-nekkid! Frontal nudity and all. (and I must say, JN was NOT a disappointment in the least!) We flash back to present day, where Rufus is a practicing OB-GYN in London. He\ufffds still single, but I\ufffdd say a bit more polished around the previous \"rough edges\". He LOOKS great in suits,broad-shouldered, slicked-back hair, confident and if you watch it, look for the scene where he wears a pin-stripe suit with the trenchcoat on top. He\ufffdd make a really great detective! I don\ufffdt usually catch mysteries on TV, but this is a good one. I\ufffdd recommend it, even if you just want to see JN, the plot will keep you involved. Jeremy\ufffds best line (IMHO): \"and there I was preserving the idea that I might be charmingly unpredicatble.\" (Rufus\ufffd response when a girlfriend tell him he\ufffds too private; his personality is too \ufffdpre-programmed.\ufffd)"}, {"response": 241, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (04:49)", "body": "Yes, I go to Berkeley. Richmond? Ooch. Sorry. Oh, and you should know that even non-athletic-booster-types are into rivalries. And since you are a SUCKLA student, I'm obligated to tell you to \"get your own fight song (proper key, please), get your own colors, and get your own bear!!!\" --- Winter, we could use this kind of depth in our Austen adaptation review topics. Why is it always sex that excites?"}, {"response": 242, "author": "winter", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (11:07)", "body": "because sex is so primal... so natural, and such an immediately gratifying stimulus in such an impersonal, fast-paced, \"everyone for themselves world.' which probably leads me to MY contribution to that \"why have such a crush on jeremy northam\" thread: i think i find him appealing because he immediately gives you the impression that if he cared for you, he'd care in such a way that you know he'd be honest and sincere about it. Even in the net, when he walks down the beach with angela, and wraps the hanky 'round her waist, you see that look in his eyes that just say, \" i'm not supposed to care for you, but i hopelessly and helplessly am.\" now i'm trying o be cautious with this next statement, and please, remember this is IMHO, but: I don't get that impression from Colin Firth at all. It may have to do with that string of women he has met over the years on various sets. As for JN, well, after going out with someone for nine years, that's some real commitment going on."}, {"response": 243, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "\"primal and natural-immediately gratifying\": you have a keen/perceptive insight-Winter. An appropriate and thought-provoking list of adjectives. reg the scarf around the waist touch in the Net: JN looked, at least to me, as if he were going to strangle Angela. But, maybe that's the Rebecca/Xenia in me-Kali!"}, {"response": 244, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (13:49)", "body": "Winter, I guess you got in without my having to wipe out a second layer of your login names? Tell how you did it? Do you suspect it was your browser saving old passwords?"}, {"response": 245, "author": "winter", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (14:59)", "body": "well, i logged in the same way i always have. and as usual, i've had to get into \"forgotten\" to access the CF and JN drools. i've had to download ALL the messages from both JN and CF, which means having to sit for a few minutes till i get to the latest. how can i access just the newest messages for these guys? the \"acitivty since this week\" and the \"new' options in forgotten won't let me o that. downloading JN messages aren't so bad riht now, it takes about 2 minutes, but the CF ones are driving me crazy! in other words, I still need help!"}, {"response": 246, "author": "Becker", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (15:02)", "body": "Amy, I am still having to sign in again under a different name to get CF and JN myself. I can't even use Forgotten. If you figure out a way to help Winter that might work for me, I'd be eternally grateful."}, {"response": 247, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "I don't know if this will work for you, but I had this same problem with some other topic last week. I was able to access the topic using the Fogotten option, then I reset the \"Remember\" button at the top of the topic. In order to \"save\" it with the other topics, I changed the \"forgotten\" in the URL location line (under the back, home, reload, etc. buttons on my screen) to \"all\" and got back to the all location with the topic back in place. Hope this might help."}, {"response": 248, "author": "winter", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (19:21)", "body": "it worked!!! it really worked!!! thanks kathleen! after a minute of figuring out exactly which buttons were located where, i managed to get CF and JN back in the original list again. i'm just crossing my fingers and hoping that it will stick for good."}, {"response": 249, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (21:50)", "body": "winter: t worked!!! it really worked!!! Hooray! I couldn't believe I had actually figured something out, so I'm glad to be of service. :-) (I just re-read my explanation, and I have no idea how you figured out what I meant . . . clarity needs improvement!)"}, {"response": 250, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (22:44)", "body": "I love this...what other medium could offer you technical indifference and unbridled lust all in the same thread? ;)"}, {"response": 251, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (00:46)", "body": "Winter, your narration just sold Fatal Inversion to me. Now I cannot get this off my mind. Oooh.. and I cringe at the thought of JN as my personal ob-gyne. The heart beat quickens and the mind thinks up excuses for visits. But in reality, I'll probably bail-out in the consultation room. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 12, "subject": "Virtual View: P&P 1", "response_count": 33, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (04:39)", "body": "I'd like to watch it again. It was I who suggested that we wait until the holidays are over, but that was just based on my guess of people's background actvity; besides the hols Amy and many of our technos must be spending a great deal of time doing unix and other magics. I don't mind when we do the virtual view - I've tracked down 3 sets of the tapes at a local video rental, I just need a few days warning."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (04:52)", "body": "Go choir director. Just do it."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (07:03)", "body": "I could do it in the week begining Monday 16th, otherwise it will have to be in January if I'm to participate. Next semester doesn't start 'til 6th Jan!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (11:14)", "body": "Yo, Cheryl, I would but, I have to buy the video. I can't rent it. I would rather send the $20.00 or more on \"Middlemarch\" or \"Martin Chizzlewit\" or\"Emma Watson\" a book, I just caught a look at,I think it might be \"new\". I'll have to checkout the author."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (12:44)", "body": "I'm still interested. Anytime is okay with me. Linda"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (14:12)", "body": "Ok, how about this? The week between Christmas and New Years is usually pretty quiet. What if we watch it after Christmas and start discussion on Sunday, December 29? If there are no violent objections, let us \"make it so!\""}, {"response": 7, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (15:50)", "body": "Yo"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Mich", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (16:19)", "body": "May I join you all? I'm really looking forward to this viewing. Even though P&P1 has nothing to P&P2 it's always broght me back to some parts of the book I'd forgetten about just watching P&P2. Plus Mr.D in 1 is so humorous, but I'll wait till we view to talk about it. Donna, I have an extra copy if you like to borrow for the viewing. email me if you are interested. I think I'm starting to see a trend in gift receiveing this xams. Since everyone knows I'm such a Austen nut, I think I'm going to see alot of duplicates to my already large austen collection. Not that I mind. Mich"}, {"response": 9, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (18:40)", "body": "After Christmas agrees w/ my schedule also. With the end of the semester, final exams, Christmas preparations and travelling -- well, let us just say that my hours are filled. I barely have enough time to drop in here or at Pemberley!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "PatK", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (19:59)", "body": "That week is fine with me too. I'm taking vacation from 12/18 til 12/26 so will have time to watch before my company comes on the 23rd. I think that I'll put it on while I'm baking for Christmas. Finally put a vcr in the kitchen since I spend a lot of time there - especially before Christmas when I bake continuously for about 4 days."}, {"response": 11, "author": "PatK", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (20:00)", "body": "That week is fine with me too. I'm taking vacation from 12/18 til 12/26 so will have time to watch before my company comes on the 23rd. I think that I'll put it on while I'm baking for Christmas. Finally put a vcr in the kitchen since I spend a lot of time there - especially before Christmas when I bake continuously for about 4 days."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (20:34)", "body": "Ok, with me I am getting the \"flick\". Gosh, Pat all that baking sure sounds familiar. What do you bake?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (00:04)", "body": "Would anyone be interested in doing a virtual viewing of persuasion. It is fast becoming my second favorite Austen novel. I have often wanted all your thoguths on it. Anyone game after P&P1? Mich"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (00:23)", "body": "Mich, that sounds great, I'd like it very much."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (05:02)", "body": "Persuasion. Me too. It is so real. Life could not have been so glossy as it is in P&P2"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (07:43)", "body": "Virtual view of Persuasion; yes, yes, yes!!!! It's my next favorite JA novel after P&P. You mean the 1995 Amanda Root movie, right? I also own the (1971,72)? BBC adaptation."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Kim", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (08:44)", "body": "I would love a virtual view of Persuasion. I have seen the Amanda Root and the BBC version. My favorite part in the BBC version is when Anne is reading Wentworth's letter. You hear his voice as she reads it silently. It really tugs at my heart's strings to hear from a man so much in love. Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhh|"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (10:00)", "body": "Very good idea Mich,I have the Amanda Root version."}, {"response": 19, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (11:51)", "body": "I have the Amanda Root version as well. Oh, happy day indeed!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (13:27)", "body": "Count me in on both account, I have the persuasion tape and just ordered today my P&P1 (with the Advocate), which I should receive in a couple of days. Great fun awaiting..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (15:23)", "body": "The copy of Persuasion I just bought actually has Amanda Root and Ciaran Hinds on the cover and not some Fabio look alike! Persuasion is more accurate than all of the other adaptations in one respect: at night the scenes are actually dark . In P&P2 and S&S (and to a lesser extent Emma) it is way to bright in the evenings to be candle-lit!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (22:36)", "body": "\"In P&P2...it is way to bright in the evenings to be candle-lit!\" True, true Ann, but if the makers of P&P2 had been historically accurate on that point, we would not have been able to enjoy the full force of The Look!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "carolee", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (23:33)", "body": "I also would love a virtual view of Persuasion. I've seen both versions but don't own either. However, it's beginning to look alot like Christmas and since both Emma and Persuasion were high on my wish list...... One can only hope."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (14:01)", "body": "Does anyone know the release date for the video of Mirimax's Emma?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "MSO", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (18:31)", "body": "The last I heard the Mirimax version of Emma was due out in March"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:08)", "body": "Ann I use \"The Best Video Guide\" it is updated daily. http://www.tbvg.com/ click on \"Upcoming\". It loads fast too."}, {"response": 27, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (12:21)", "body": "Checked on your link and looks like the English Patient should me release in April too with Romeo+Juliet and Twelft Night (spell?)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "PatK", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (15:19)", "body": "I have the Amanda Root version of Persuasion - haven't seen it yet. Donna (in response to #19), I bake lots of cookies and candy for Christmas. Fix up plates or boxes to take to people (like the vet's office, my hairdresser, work, etc.) It isn't Christmas without the baking. I've been spending the weekend decorating the house. I love to sit in the living room by 'tree' light and listen to music. Almost makes me want to leave the tree up all year."}, {"response": 29, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (16:13)", "body": "PERSUASION rules! Why this wasn't nominated for Best Picture, I will never understand. Was a lot less glossy & star-driven than S&S, but much truer to Austen, in my view. . ."}, {"response": 30, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:20)", "body": "I just finished reading Persuasion and believe that after P&P it is my favourite Jane Austen novel. Captain Wentworth's letter to Anne is so touching and heartfelt. You can feel his anguish, desire and fear of rejection. I can't describe what it did to me. I haven't seen the movie yet but can hardly wait. I hope I will be as enthralled and enchanted as I was with P&P."}, {"response": 31, "author": "mich", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (23:46)", "body": "Lisa, I think you'll be please. The movie is really well done, both actor do a good job. Happy viewing. Mich"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (12:56)", "body": "I'd like to parttake in the view and read scheme too. Have got P&P1, hope to get hold of Persuasion (in an emergency I have the old BBC version, don't laugh at me, but I like Wentworth in it. And Sir Walter Eliott!)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (15:43)", "body": "I hope you guys issue a report after y'all see P&P1. I do own the tapes, but I'll reserve my opinion until after your virtual view. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 120, "subject": "Sign in newcomers, if you like (Was, Introduce yourself, Austen person)", "response_count": 157, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "Latest introductions: ____ Topic 2 of 174 [austen]: introduce yourself, Austen person Response 292 of 294: ednaw (ednaw) * Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (03:42) * 2 lines I am glad to descover this location, being the only P&P2 addict some what lonely. I have enjoiyed reading all the comments. ednaw ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 2 of 174 [austen]: introduce yourself, Austen person Response 293 of 294: Amy (Amy) * Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (08:48) * 1 lines Hi Ednaw, and welcome. I saw you try to come into chat yesterday. Try again sometime. What was the trouble? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 2 of 174 [austen]: introduce yourself, Austen person Response 294 of 294: Melanie (Melanie) * Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:43) * 1 lines"}, {"response": 2, "author": "brad", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (10:59)", "body": "Hi! I'm a 40+ male who lives just outside Portland Me. with my wife and 17 year old daughter. Was forced into a career change a few years ago so I went back to school and am now a registered nurse. I had read all Jane's books but it wasn't until the recent movies and TV productions came out that I became a fanatic (my wife claims this is another one of my \"binges\" and wont last). While surfing the internet for all things pertaining to Jane Austen, I discovered this delightful forum. The computer I am using is not mine and will not be available to me after September so my time here may be limited. If I have to leave I hope it will only be for a short duration because I really enjoy reading your comments. Hey, how come there is no Lizzie Bennet drool section- she beats Darcy anyday!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (11:04)", "body": "Welcome Brad. For research purposes, what have been some of your other binges? There are patterns. Actually there is a Lizzy topic begun by a little boy, I think it is called hubba hubba something. Or something hubba hubba. Hit \"All\" and it will show up. Maybe you can lend the thread some dignity."}, {"response": 4, "author": "brad", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "OK Amy, here's some of my \"binges\" over the years- not in the order they occured. Photography, gardening, karate, guitar playing, violin playing, comic book collecting, weight lifting, movie taping, \"classic\" literature reading, car repair, opera, folk music, wood cutting and splitting, golf, computer games Those are the main ones and there are probably others that I'm not remembering right now. My wife bears up pretty well. She smiles and wonders how much the current fad is going to cost. She has tried to interest me in some other areas like home repair, ironing, etc. but so far none of these have taken hold. Don't know if these fit into a pattern, Amy what kind of patterns were you referring to.----Brad"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (14:12)", "body": "] Don't know if these fit into a pattern, Amy what kind of patterns were you referring to.----Brad __ Well, it does show the charming and requisite obsessivenss. Thanks for asking; this is helping me formulate my questionnaire. I guess what I am after more is tastes: in movies, books etc."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (18:02)", "body": "Brad, I thought once one was obsessed with golf, they never got over it. Did you manage to escape? Did you quit cold turkey or did you use a patch of grass from your favorite green?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "ValGal17", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "Hi! I'm new here - and can't wait to get started. I am a 17 year old, highschool senior, Austen fanatic, Firth fanatic, living in Maryland. Some of my other intrests include politics, \"classic\" books by various authors, the genealogy of my family, etc. I hope to become better aquainted with other P&P2 fanatics also. I am embaressed to admit how many times I have watched it in it's entirity. Anyways, my e-mail address is ValGal17@aol.com I hope to hear from you. -Val"}, {"response": 8, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (18:17)", "body": "I am embaressed to admit how many times I have watched it in it's entirity. Hi Val. This is one place where you won't have to be embarrassed."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (20:56)", "body": "Val, I stopped counting after 50! ;-) You have come to the right place!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (21:14)", "body": "Actually, would naming a Blenheim colored Cavalier King Charles Spaniel \"Darcy\" qualify as a fanatic? I finally read P&P about 10 years ago! It was/is so wonderful I laugh out loud. I dragged my husband to a TINY movie house to see EMMA and he said it wasn't bad haha. Wish I had more time - I think Austen and others are better when I understand the history of the times. But I think I'm receiving P&P2 on tape for Valentines. Can't wait! In order to get my 3yr old to nap, sometimes I make him watch my tape! It works and I leave the tape in - what a great break! My learned neighbor, or so he thinks attributed P&P to Dickens, and when I ever so gently corrected him, he asked if I was sure!!! See y'all around...Thanks Amy"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (10:10)", "body": "Brad and Valerie...welcome! Brad, may I commend you on your recent choice of addiction...I hope you enjoy it as much as I have...I have delighted in many a good conversation...and as you will see, there is much humor to behold and many talented people here... Valerie...Bravo to you...I wish I could get my 15 year old to enjoy Jane Austen...she moans every time I put it into the VCR...which I might add is several times a week...feel comfortable here about your choice of viewing pleasure! I also was delighted to find fellow addicts here... I look forward to conversing with both of you!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "ValGal17", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (17:27)", "body": "Thanks for making me feel so welcome! I have seen AUSTEN-L, and JASNA mentioned a lot what are they? Also, I can't seem to get into one of the JA live chat rooms. Any tips? Hope to talk to you all soon. Val"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (17:38)", "body": "Val - Re: Chat room. Do you access the internet from AOL or Prodigy? What browser do you use? Do you get an error message when you try to access it? If so, what is the message?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (22:38)", "body": "Val you can find info on the Jane Austen Society of North America and about the AUSTEN-L email discussion list at Henry's Jane Austen Information Page: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janeinfo.html"}, {"response": 15, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (13:53)", "body": "Yes, the JASNA page is http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janausoc.html and the AUSTEN-L page http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austen-l.html"}, {"response": 16, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (19:52)", "body": "[Hey, how come there is no Lizzie Bennet drool section- she beats Darcy anyday!] Brad, I think Terry has set up a male drool at the Drool Conference."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (20:18)", "body": "Yuck, forget what I said a few days ago. But I did name our puppy Darcy, his dad is from England. Ive always loved history, which is why I enjoy reading about the times as much as the books, and watching the movies. Loved EMMA the 2 hour version, can't wait to see the A&E version this weekend, Ive already unwrapped the tape, and got it labeled! Ive noticed, I sometimes think of these characters as people down the street. Now that's weird. or is it?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (16:21)", "body": "Ive noticed, I sometimes think of these characters as people down the street. Now that's weird. or is it? Not weird at all, Anne. A very normal sign of your/my/everyone else's addiction, I assure you!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "Hi, I'm Kate. I'm Australian, but I live in New York at the moment - I'm a grad student. Have been a total P&P addict since I read it in school about 15 years ago, liked the first BBC series, absolutely addicted to the second. In Australia it was shown in fifty minute weekly episodes - after two weeks I had to go out and buy the video. Unfortunately my copy of the video is at home, but I brought my copy of the novel with me -couldn't survive without it for a year. I'm very pleased to have found this site - especially all the fanfiction Will pass on the address to fellow Aussie Austen addicts."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (21:52)", "body": "Welcome, Kate. We have a great Australian contingent here, who are even going to have a gathering next weekend. You should check them out in chat. What are you studying, where?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "Law, NYU"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (09:44)", "body": "Oh, good, Kate. Kali will want to talk to you. She's a senior at Berkeley and waiting for acceptance letters, but a good student so it is only a matter of closing her eyes and pointing. Glad you did not have any trouble getting into drool."}, {"response": 23, "author": "ValGal17", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (00:53)", "body": "I still cannot get into the Live Pemberly Chat room. I use AOL. Each time i try to get in , the message \"cannot retreive\" appears on my screen. Any more tips? thanks, Val"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (01:26)", "body": "Val, it looks like a lost cause for AOL accounts to use the drawing room Kaf, who runs the chat, is checking out other possibilities so more people can participate, but so far she has not found one that suits the regulars."}, {"response": 25, "author": "mishmc", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (15:27)", "body": "I am a 27 year old from New Jersey happy to find others similarly afflicted. I first read P&P 10 years ago and have been a Janeite ever since. When not watching/reading Jane Austen-related material, I love listening to music (Beatles,Ella Fitzgerald,Beck), playing the guitar(a little & ill indeed!) & singing(a little better), reading everything in sight, and fooling around on the computer. I love to hear what others think of various adaptations!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (15:45)", "body": "Michele, sorry you couldn't stay any longer at the Pemberley Drawing Room! Please do stop by again!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "mishmc", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (15:59)", "body": "I received an \"illegal operation\" message which shut down my connection. I'm quite sure you're not doing anything illicit over there, so I can't imagine what my computer was talking about! Anyway, I will try again. Thanks for being so friendly. Everybody here seems so nice (in New Jersey we just grunt at each other)!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (17:32)", "body": "I am happy you found us, Michele."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (23:56)", "body": "Hi! I'm Andrea. I live in Oregon. Married for almost 9 years to Tim. We have a son, Spencer, whom we adopted 2 years ago. I teach science at the local high school. I thought I was the only person on earth addicted to this adaptation, so much that I practically wore out my first tape. It's nice to know there are more of us out there! I may be ignorant of some of the information so many of you seem to know, so forgive me if I ask redundant questions!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (00:01)", "body": "Andrea, join the club--I did wear out my first tape! What subjects do you teach?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (00:48)", "body": "Glad to see you made it in, Andrea. Hope to see you again in chat."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (01:19)", "body": "Andrea, you made it! I'm so pleased. Hope to see you again in Pemberley soon."}, {"response": 33, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (08:15)", "body": "I have a question, Amy. How do I find out about the Australian cyber-meeting next Saturday? Could someone let me know what time it will be and I will try to stay awake here in New York. It would be good to hear some local goss."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (08:37)", "body": "Kate, they are actually meeting in real life. They'll be online at about 5:30 pm eastern in the drawing room just to say hi to us and make us jealous that they get to see each other. If you want to catch them in chat at other times, Hil tends to be there for morning coffee, about 2:30 pm EST and sometimes again late 10:30 pm -12 midnight. Anna chats from work and is typically on in the late evening hours, in and out. Ian is on vacation right now but maybe found in the drawing room very early, 7ish am and sometimes later. And on the weekends he talks all night. There are others, but not so regularly in chat."}, {"response": 35, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (08:57)", "body": "Thanks Amy. By the way, when I go into chat I can get into the CF room and the JN room but not the drawing room. Is this just me, or am I doing something wrong?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (09:03)", "body": "I can't think of any reason that should be, Kate. Unless you are just not being patient enough. Sometimes the door sticks when there are a lot of people inside."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (21:22)", "body": "Thanks for the welcome! Anne, I teach science to freshmen (14 year olds). Today was a day where I could have \"gone postal\" (as my friend puts it), if I'd had access to an automatic weapon. Just for one class though, so all in all the day was a winner!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "Thanks for the welcome! Anne, I teach science to freshmen (14 year olds). Today was a day where I could have \"gone postal\" (as my friend puts it), if I'd had access to an automatic weapon. Just for one class though, so all in all the day was a winner!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (09:19)", "body": "Hello - I'm Lynn. I have really been enjoying my time here - I was so glad to know I was not alone in my addiction to P&P2!! My husband Jonathan is VERY patient and understanding!! There ARE worse habits!! I think that all the topics are fun, and it's great to analyze everything and see that other people feel the same way. I've been bragging to my JA friends at work that I found this spot (I work in a library)! I love to read, and could reread JA a million times. I too had trouble in chat - I seemed to get in, but I couln't see the actual chat, only who had come in and who had left. Am I doing something wrong?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (09:43)", "body": "Welcome, Lynn. ] I seemed to get in, but I couln't see the actual chat, only who had come in and who had left. __ What you saw would be the result of hitting the \"view occupants\" button, so yes, you must have been in. But you should have seen the chat messages further down. Try again, and hit \"new messages\" every minute or so to see what has just been posted, if anything."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (10:28)", "body": "You may also want to increase the number of viewed messages (I use 20). It may also be that you logged on at times when no one was home."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (18:00)", "body": "I agree with Ann - if all you saw was messages about who has come and gone, you were probably alone in the room. If you're in the US, evenings around 9 or 10pm Eastern are usually a good time to find others there."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (18:29)", "body": "Welcome Lynn! I think we all must have pretty understanding husbands/significant others. Mine even got me Sense and Sensibility for Valentine's Day."}, {"response": 44, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "Hi, I just found this topic after having found the whole area about 1 1/2 weeks ago. My husband has been telling me for a couple of years that I would eventually find plenty of stuff surfing that would keep me occupied. By now he probably wishes I'd never searched on Austen! I've been married for 11 years, have a son (10) and a daughter (6). She's my JA buddy which is why I have to keep pausing during viewings (\"what did they say?\"). She has a brilliant, fanatical future ahead of her! I work as a financial analyst (prob'ly contribting to my JA/Romance obsession) at a pretty big insurance company in San Antonio, and was psyched to see somebody say \"y'all\" up above."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Welcome, officially, Cindy. Does your daughter love Lydia as my little guy does?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "No, my Melissa is more inclined to appreciate Jane's sweetness. My son even grudgingly sat through a Sunday afternoon marathon, but found himself participating in my fanaticism. \"Does she EVER shut up?\" \"Look (the post-wedding) - he's SMILING! But he never smiles!\" He was even the one that urged Melissa to get her bath early on Sun PM, to make sure they wouldn't miss any of Emma. However, it didn't work its magic on them, either, they wound up playing with their stuffed animals instead of watching!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "No, my Melissa is more inclined to appreciate Jane's sweetness. My son even grudgingly sat through a Sunday afternoon P&P2 marathon, but found himself participating in my fanaticism. \"Does she EVER shut up?\" \"Look (the post-wedding) - he's SMILING! But he never smiles!\" He was even the one that urged Melissa to get her bath early on Sun PM, to make sure they wouldn't miss any of Emma. However, it didn't work its magic on them, either, they wound up playing with their stuffed animals instead of watching!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "oops"}, {"response": 49, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "Hi, Cindy, and welcome. My brother use to live in Alamo Heights. (They are in New Braunfels, now, though.)"}, {"response": 50, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (17:07)", "body": "Thank you, Amy, Ann and Kathleen. I did get in, shortly after I posted that message, but had to go to work (which meant I had to stop the PP2 tape I was watching while here) so I didn't have a chance to come back to tell you I was successful. Andrea, my husband got me Persuasion for my birthday in January! I have PP2 taped from A&E, but borrowed the six volume set. When I saw the extra scenes, I was wishing I could justify the $100 for the set, and he volunteered to get it for \"us\" for our anniversary!!!! Now that's love!!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (21:00)", "body": "LynnMarie-Do you have a Costco where you are? I got my six tape set there, for only $60!!!!!!!!!!! Hope you got my e-mail too! (I want Persuasion for our anniversary! That will be in June! Can i wait that long? Perish the thought!)"}, {"response": 52, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (21:13)", "body": "My $60 Christmas gift was from BestBuy, I think. Sharon, where are you?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (22:58)", "body": "Houston"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (13:01)", "body": "Lynn Marie - he volunteered to get it for \"us\" for our anniversary!!!! Now that's love!! Happy thought, indeed!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "lindal", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (16:44)", "body": "Greetings! I've been lurking here for several weeks and greatly enjoying the writings, discussions, and of course the Darcy threads. I live in Oakhurst CA (just south of Yosemite) and work at Sierra On-Line as the art director on an internet game called The Realm. Check it out at http://www.realmserver.com I've been an Austen fan since college--I can even remember what I was thinking when I first read about Darcy meeting Elizabeth when she was walking at Rosings! And that was _years_ ago. I look forward to many more pleasant visits."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (17:08)", "body": "]-I can even remember what I was thinking when I first read about Darcy meeting Elizabeth when she was walking at Rosings! Linda, don't tease. What were you thinking?"}, {"response": 57, "author": "lindal", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (19:00)", "body": "What was I thinking??? Why, that Darcy must like walking as much as Elizabeth! AND--How can she be so dense!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (23:13)", "body": "Hi Linda, and welcome. My kids have some Sierra games. Cool job!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (19:12)", "body": "Tried an introduction yesterday and after submitting, it showed an error.. so here I go again. Have been a Jane Austen fan since 13 yrs old and have purchased all her books and video adaptations released. I'm usually loyal to each and every Austen's \"hero\" for the duration of the book/video but JN's Knightley has quite become an obsession. (exception being S&S with the milder sort hero - not being quite my thing) I'm trilled to have found the drool page and various others since I can relate to the ordinarily sensible women ...now completely and uncontrollably insane!! What do you think..Is there really life after JN's Knightley and Firth's Darcy??"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (19:51)", "body": "Welcome Serena. Give over to the insanity. It feels pretty good."}, {"response": 61, "author": "janea", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "Hi, my name is Jane (no, I\ufffdm not named after Austen) and I\ufffdve been reading Jane Austen\ufffds books since I was in my teens. Of course I love P&P2 (otherwise, I wouldn\ufffdt be writing this) and even though Emma is my favourite novel, P&P2 is my favourite among the adaptations. I\ufffdm glad I found all you folks out there! None of my friends like neither Jane Austen, nor P&P. They don\ufffdt even like Darcy, can you imagine!"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (10:25)", "body": "] They don\ufffdt even like Darcy, can you imagine! __ Impossible how stupid real life friends can be in these important matters. That's why we are here. Welcome, Jane. Want to be JaneA? We have a Jane already."}, {"response": 63, "author": "janea", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (10:37)", "body": "JaneA is OK with me. And thanks for the welcome."}, {"response": 64, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (11:09)", "body": "Jane, welcome! I see you're from Sweden? We have several Swedish folks here, happy to welcome another!"}, {"response": 65, "author": "mich", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (13:55)", "body": "[Is there really life after JN's Knightley and Firth's Darcy??] Good point Serena, will any mortal man ever meet our now heightened expectations."}, {"response": 66, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (23:12)", "body": "Did any meet our expectations before they were heightened?"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Nadine", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (23:16)", "body": "Hi all, Its cool to see what people feel on here. I love P&P and most of all Firth played a wonderful part as Darcy. I just now started to read the book, for insights as well I myself am in the process of trying to become an author."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (02:56)", "body": "Welcome, Tammy. As you can see there is more than one writer of fiction here."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (10:32)", "body": "For some of you new in the Conference...I had a great deal of trouble getting into the chat area...took me two months to finally figure out that my server (prodigy) had a version of a browser that would not allow me in...for those of you who have win95...I set up a short cut that went into my server and use my own browser which I downloaded free...from Microsoft ...its the Microsoft Internet Explorer....I now go in and out freely.....hope it helps y'all from Prodigy and AOL"}, {"response": 70, "author": "circe", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (18:02)", "body": "Hello, everyone. I'm thrilled that I've found this site--sort of like finding an oasis in the desert. I'm a recent convert to Jane Austen. My Ph.D. will be in Renaissance English Literature. I HAD thought, how can you get more romantic than the Renaissance, for crying out loud? I have seen the light! I have been revelling in this Jane Austen film extravaganza. (Needless to say, I'm thrilled that there's a Shakespeare film bonanza going on, too!)"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (22:04)", "body": "Happy to have you, Circe. Converts warm our hearts."}, {"response": 72, "author": "SYLVIA", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (18:56)", "body": "Hi everyone, my name is Sylvia and i'm and addict. I discovered Austen in high school and continued my obsession through the years. I'm now 30. Not only am i and addict but i'm and enabler. I got a co-worker, boss and boss' boss hooked. My husband doesn't get the obsession at all. My mother and sister are only mildly sympathetic. Thank God I have found you all."}, {"response": 73, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (19:06)", "body": "Sylvia -- this is indeed a most sympathetic, empathetic, and codependent group! They are some the most wonderful folk I have met. I am sure you will enjoy your time here at Spring immensely."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (19:39)", "body": "Yep, Sylvia. No more guilt! Welcome."}, {"response": 75, "author": "valen", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (14:42)", "body": "Hello! I am Valen Cox, and have been lurking quite obsessively for several weeks now. Yesterday (28 Feb) I turned 39, and decided to be brave and celebrate by joining in. Have been a bit shy thinking that =I shall be awkward to visit the place without a proper invitation,= but I witnessed many a brave soul who jumped in head first and who =get on= just swimmingly! And so thought, =I shall come directly= as well! =In essentials, I am very much the same as I always have been.= I have had the good fortune to live in such diverse locations from the Orient to continental Europe due both to my father\ufffds and husband\ufffds military careers\ufffdwe just returned stateside from a 2 year tour in Taegu, South Korea. Been married to Terry for 18 years, he\ufffdll soon pin on the rank of Lieutenant Colonel, and am the mother of 5 children adopted from around the world. I am a writer of science fiction/fantasy and historical romance, and am working my way towards submitting by summer next year. Even as a child, I\ufffdve always been drawn to love stories of depth and profundity. Austen\ufffds PRIDE AND PREJUDICE caught my attention when was I was barely 11, and it\ufffds most recent film adaptation P&P2, took my breath away. I will soon tell my poor story in the Drool Conference, =and thither also= I hope you shall come for =I should be very happy to make your acquaintance.= Ciao!"}, {"response": 76, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (15:07)", "body": "Glad you're speaking out, Valen. We'll see you in drool. I'll anxiously await hearing your opinions."}, {"response": 77, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (15:23)", "body": "Thanks for making yourself known Valen. I lurked for a long time before I made myself known, but once I did, I quickly became part of this community. You'll find it a welcoming environment."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Justagirl", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (16:02)", "body": "Hello everyone...this is my first time in a chat room. I gladly admit that I am an Austen addict."}, {"response": 79, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (16:24)", "body": "Hi Justagirl. Welcome. I saw you in the Drawing Room. When you go in there again, try hitting the \"New messages\" button so you can see, well, you know... new messages."}, {"response": 80, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "I think it's great that we have new blood -- I've only been around here for about two months myself."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Happy birthday, Valen. And welcome!! Linda"}, {"response": 82, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (22:22)", "body": "Many Happy Returns, Valen, and I hope this is the start of a very good year for you."}, {"response": 83, "author": "valen", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (23:24)", "body": "Thank you all for such warm wishes for both my coming out and my birthday! Thirty-nine feels pretty darned good. Cannot begin to tell you all how impressed I've been with everyone here! And how many hours of enjoyment you've given me. Daily, I am renewed. I've posted my story in Drool under, what else, Colin Firth. Go to it man!"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (00:15)", "body": "Valen, I don't suppose you watch Babylon 5? There is a character on that show named Valenn, who is something of a messiah figure."}, {"response": 85, "author": "Becks", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (00:40)", "body": "Justagirl: You a No Doubt fan?"}, {"response": 86, "author": "jennyha", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (15:53)", "body": "Hi, my name is Jenny. I have been reading many of your correspondents over a month and enjoyed very much. I am a Korean and English is of course not my first language. (So please forgive my poor English. After 12 years living in the States, I am still not comfortable writing in English.) The movie, S&S introduced me to Jane Austen and this conference. I have read only two Jane Austen books up to this point, though. (S&S which I did not like much and P&P which I loved it) I just borrowed P&P2 from he public library last weekend and watched all on saturday. OH, I loved it! I am a Biochemist and working in one of SUNY. I have a son who is 1.5 years old. It is hard to find time to get on the computer and to watch T.V. or video by myself, but I have managed to find time up to this point. Anyhow I am glad to find this site and I hope I can participate on many different subjects you are offering. (None of my friends and my husband are not a fan of Jane Austen unfortunately.) I like to babble, but have better stop here before too many people notice it."}, {"response": 87, "author": "jennyha", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (15:55)", "body": "I told you that my English is poor! I already found so many mistakes in my previous posting. I will try to edit one before I submit next time."}, {"response": 88, "author": "valen", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "Hello Jennyha! My husband and I just returned from 2 years in South Korea. Where are you from? Glad to see you here!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (16:54)", "body": "Hi Jenny. Your English is fine. Please don't give it another thought. And welcome."}, {"response": 90, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (17:00)", "body": "Welcome Jenny! Your English is very good, please do not worry yourself over it. ;-) Glad to have you here."}, {"response": 91, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "Another hello to you Jenny. You will find this a very nice (make that wonderful) group of people. And you will find that we all make spelling and grammar errors, so do not be concerned."}, {"response": 92, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (19:46)", "body": "Let me add my welcome, Jenny."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "Welcome, Jenny. Your English is very good - nothing to be ashamed of. And, believe me, we all make mistakes, especially lots of typos!"}, {"response": 94, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "Hi, Jenny -- welcome to our little community...what I have experienced here is that everyone is very forgiving of typos, and all of us love to babble...so, please join in and make yourself at home."}, {"response": 95, "author": "jennyh", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "Thank you for all the welcome you gave me! I am originally from Seoul. After college, I came to the States to go to a graduate school. Now I am settled in NY with my understanding husband and a toddler. My husband urged me to join here after seeing how much I enjoyed Jane Austen's books, watching P&P2, and reading your comments here. He also found some places in a newsgroup discussing the adaptations of Austen's book this evening. Most of people in the newsgroup like P&P1 better, which was quite a shock to me. P&P1 was such a disappointment! Will anybody please let me know why the producer of P&P2 wanted to have Colin Firth to play Mr. Darcy? I cannot imagine anybody else playing Mr. Darcy. Colin Firth did such a wonderful job. I read that at first Firth did not want to be Mr. Darcy. Apparently Crispin Boham-Carter had to audition for the one of the role, and I wondered whether Firth had to do the same. Did the producer say anything about that in her book of Making of P&P2? Jenny"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Becks", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (21:09)", "body": "You have come to the right place, Jen. Welcome"}, {"response": 97, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "Welcome, Jenny."}, {"response": 98, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:34)", "body": "Welcome, Jenny! It's nice to find others interested in the same thing you are, isn't it?"}, {"response": 99, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (06:41)", "body": "Hi Jenny I haven't got the \"Making of\" book with me and someone else might be able to give more detail, but as I remember it, the producer intended to get Firth for the role from the beginning and sent him the script. He did not have to audition for it . It's my understanding that once you get well-known and have done lots of previous work you don't have to audition for roles any more. He didn't want to do it, but then he read the script and was hooked."}, {"response": 100, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (08:07)", "body": "Hi Jenny, Do you live in or near the Mid-Hudson Valley of New York where I am?? Linda"}, {"response": 101, "author": "Justagirl", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (12:00)", "body": "It's me again. It took awhile, but I couldn't find this topic or even the Spring again. Justaninternetidiot, too. Don't worry, I've added you all--my new friends--to My Favorites. And, yes, Becks, I do like No Doubt. : ) Has anyone seen the new A&E version of \"Emma?\" I missed it. Please let me know if you liked it...I'm thinking of buying the video, just to see it (and add to my collection). By the way, I've seen P&P2 too many times as well."}, {"response": 102, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "Kate: as I remember it, the producer intended to get Firth for the role from the beginning and sent him the script Yes, Sue Birtwistle had worked with CF on Dutch Girls, and she knew he would be perfect as Darcy. (We should thank her for her astuteness and persistence.) Justagirl: Has anyone seen the new A&E version of \"Emma?\" I missed it. Please let me know if you liked it... We have been discussing this adaptation on the Topic Emma3, just down the \"road\" here at the austen conference."}, {"response": 103, "author": "valen", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:05)", "body": "Ann: Saw earlier that you'd asked if I watch Babylon 5. Only occasionally . I do recall a Messiah type, but didn't recall the name. Is it pronounced like the Valen in 'Valen'tine? That's how my dad calls me, being born in Feb and all. :-)"}, {"response": 104, "author": "Vivsy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "Hi, I'm Vivian from Illinois, P&P2 is wonderful, I watched it everyday for a month (Dec. 1996), my husband thinks I'm crazy. After my daughter went to bed at 8:30 I would stay up and watch most of it skipping through some parts. Now, I just watch it about once or twice a week. I just found you people--had a hard time getting in with AOL, but now I'm with another server and it has been a breeze, I'll probably be here often."}, {"response": 105, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (23:19)", "body": "Welcome, Vivian. You have passed stage two, then? Where in Illinois? I am in Indiana and lived in Chicago for 7 years."}, {"response": 106, "author": "Vivsy", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (00:13)", "body": "I live in Springfield, the state capital. I'm afraid to ask, what is stage three?"}, {"response": 107, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (06:03)", "body": "Vivian, nice to have you join us. Many of us have found that this internet site is a nice supplement to our P&P2 addiction -- it's a wonderful place to spend time."}, {"response": 108, "author": "jennyh", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (08:33)", "body": "Kate and Kathleen: Thank you for the prompt answer! I am glad that Sue Birtwistle insisted CF to play Darcy!!! Linda: I just moved into NY state at the end of last year and I am not quite sure where mid Hudson valley is. I live in Manlius near Syracuse. To all of you, I must send my gratitude introducing BBC-A&E version of P&P. I did not even know the adaptation (except a version with LO and GG) was existed. Now I am totally hooked to P&P, the novel and P&P2. Jenny"}, {"response": 109, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (09:33)", "body": "Hello. My name is Lynn and I live in Boston. I've been peeking in for about a month. I saw P & P2 for the first time last month, and only by accident. Now I am completely hooked. Every Friday night I spend with my tapes watching the entire 5 hours! And I love reading your opinions - now when I watch, I see scenes with a different edge. I'm so glad for all of you - now I know I'm not alone in my fixation."}, {"response": 110, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (10:23)", "body": "] now I know I'm not alone in my fixation. __ Isn't that a nice feeling, Lynn? You are very welcome."}, {"response": 111, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:11)", "body": "Welcome, Lynn. I've put you on the Boston email list."}, {"response": 112, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (07:32)", "body": ""}, {"response": 113, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (07:36)", "body": "Oops!! Didn't mean to post nothing. Jenny, Poughkeepsie (which is in the MHV) is about half way between New York City and Albany. That means about 200 miles from Syracuse. I guess we're not close neighbors. I hoep that you enjoy your stay in NY state. Linda"}, {"response": 114, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "Hello Everyone! My name is Angela. Since I found this place about a week ago, I have spent at least two or three hours a day here. My internet service provider has never been so well used that I think I will have to upgrade my service to get more hours just to spend more time here. :-) Now a little about myself. I'm a technical writer for a software company in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, although my undergraduate degree is in Earth Sciences. I was originally introduced to Austen nearly eight years ago, while I was in University, by a friend who thought that P&P was a book that every knowledgeable person should read. When I first read it, I was quite daunted by the Regency English, although I still liked the characters and the plot. (I am Chinese and English is my second language, although speak it much better than Chinese now.) I went on to read more Austen after P&P but it is still my favorite of the ones I did finish. So, when I heard in 1995 that A&E was going to show an adaption, I was ecstatic. When P&P2 aired in Jan. 96, I shooed my husband away and holed myself up in the TV room and thoroughly enjoyed three evenings of solitary focused television. When it ended, all I could ask was that's it and immediately proceeded to re-read the book. I'm afraid to say how many times I have seen it since, but suffice it to say that I can quote passages, hum the music and I have begun to wear out the tape I made when it was first aired. I have never seen P&P0 or P&P1, but I am quite satisfied with P&P2 and think it is nearly perfect. One of my other interests is the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI). (A shorter version is the Kiersey Temperament Sorter, which gives the same personality types in 70 questions.) Although I have not seen a topic on it here as it applies to P&P characters, I have seen some references to personality type when I browsed. I am an ISTJ and I was introduced to MBTI when I wanted a change in career in my last year of University. (That's why I'm a technical writer now.) I understand that Jane Austen is an INTJ a is Darcy. If anyone is interested in discussing personality typing as it pertains to P&P characters, I would be very interested. I love to ramble on, so I better stop before I write an essay, or lose nerve and not post. I love what I've seen here and hope to post more in the future. Angela"}, {"response": 115, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (22:03)", "body": "Hello Everyone! My name is Angela. Since I found this place about a week ago, I have spent at least two or three hours a day here. My internet service provider has never been so well used that I think I will have to upgrade my service to get more hours just to spend more time here. :-) Now a little about myself. I'm a technical writer for a software company in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, although my undergraduate degree is in Earth Sciences. I was originally introduced to Austen nearly eight years ago, while I was in University, by a friend who thought that P&P was a book that every knowledgeable person should read. When I first read it, I was quite daunted by the Regency English, although I still liked the characters and the plot. (I am Chinese and English is my second language, although speak it much better than Chinese now.) I went on to read more Austen after P&P but it is still my favorite of the ones I did finish. So, when I heard in 1995 that A&E was going to show an adaption, I was ecstatic. When P&P2 aired in Jan. 96, I shooed my husband away and holed myself up in the TV room and thoroughly enjoyed three evenings of solitary focused television. When it ended, all I could ask was that's it and immediately proceeded to re-read the book. I'm afraid to say how many times I have seen it since, but suffice it to say that I can quote passages, hum the music and I have begun to wear out the tape I made when it was first aired. I have never seen P&P0 or P&P1, but I am quite satisfied with P&P2 and think it is nearly perfect. One of my other interests is the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI). (A shorter version is the Kiersey Temperament Sorter, which gives the same personality types in 70 questions.) Although I have not seen a topic on it here as it applies to P&P characters, I have seen some references to personality type when I browsed. I am an ISTJ and I was introduced to MBTI when I wanted a change in career in my last year of University. (That's why I'm a technical writer now.) I understand that Jane Austen is an INTJ a is Darcy. If anyone is interested in discussing personality typing as it pertains to P&P characters, I would be very interested. I love to ramble on, so I better stop before I write an essay, or lose nerve and not post. I love what I've seen here and hope to post more in the future. Angela"}, {"response": 116, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (22:03)", "body": "Hello Everyone! My name is Angela. Since I found this place about a week ago, I have spent at least two or three hours a day here. My internet service provider has never been so well used that I think I will have to upgrade my service to get more hours just to spend more time here. :-) Now a little about myself. I'm a technical writer for a software company in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, although my undergraduate degree is in Earth Sciences. I was originally introduced to Austen nearly eight years ago, while I was in University, by a friend who thought that P&P was a book that every knowledgeable person should read. When I first read it, I was quite daunted by the Regency English, although I still liked the characters and the plot. (I am Chinese and English is my second language, although speak it much better than Chinese now.) I went on to read more Austen after P&P but it is still my favorite of the ones I did finish. So, when I heard in 1995 that A&E was going to show an adaption, I was ecstatic. When P&P2 aired in Jan. 96, I shooed my husband away and holed myself up in the TV room and thoroughly enjoyed three evenings of solitary focused television. When it ended, all I could ask was that's it and immediately proceeded to re-read the book. I'm afraid to say how many times I have seen it since, but suffice it to say that I can quote passages, hum the music and I have begun to wear out the tape I made when it was first aired. I have never seen P&P0 or P&P1, but I am quite satisfied with P&P2 and think it is nearly perfect. One of my other interests is the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI). (A shorter version is the Kiersey Temperament Sorter, which gives the same personality types in 70 questions.) Although I have not seen a topic on it here as it applies to P&P characters, I have seen some references to personality type when I browsed. I am an ISTJ and I was introduced to MBTI when I wanted a change in career in my last year of University. (That's why I'm a technical writer now.) I understand that Jane Austen is an INTJ a is Darcy. If anyone is interested in discussing personality typing as it pertains to P&P characters, I would be very interested. I love to ramble on, so I better stop before I write an essay, or lose nerve and not post. I love what I've seen here and hope to post more in the future. Angela"}, {"response": 117, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (22:24)", "body": "Angela, you're once, twice, three times a lady --- welcome!"}, {"response": 118, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (23:19)", "body": "Glad to have you here Angela, you are in good company! An ENFP here...;-)"}, {"response": 119, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (05:24)", "body": "Hi Angela -- It's always nice to meet another P&P2 and Jane Austen fan."}, {"response": 120, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (07:04)", "body": "Angela -- we discussed the Myers Briggs types of various Jane Austen characters (and those of people on the board) in the Old P&P2 BB Archives and on AUSTEN-L ..."}, {"response": 121, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (07:06)", "body": "Angela. No, thanks for the nice long intro. You might take a look at the archives of the old board for our first go around with the MB. Lots of us might want to talk about it since our numbers have swelled so. The discussion starts here: http://access.spring.com/~amy/b017.html#334"}, {"response": 122, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (07:07)", "body": "Oh my goodness, Henry. We were responding to Angela at the same time."}, {"response": 123, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:25)", "body": "Angela - Howdy from an ENTJ! :)"}, {"response": 124, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:50)", "body": "Welcome to Vivian, Jenny, Lynn and Angela! Vivian...I loved it when you said watch most of it skipping through some parts. we all know what parts you run to and have many a great conversation regarding them...even some pictures and quotes! You will have a great time discussing them....and we have been known to drool over them from time to time. Welcome to all of you!"}, {"response": 125, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (13:46)", "body": "Angela; I'm ISTL also; welcome!"}, {"response": 126, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (14:32)", "body": "]Welcome to Vivian, Jenny, Lynn and Angela! A very warm welcome as well, glad to count you all aboard this great place. We share many similarities and do enjoy the same wonderful past-time : P&P"}, {"response": 127, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "Sorry about the three posts yesterday. I didn't realize that I did that until I came back today. I have no idea how I did that. Thanks for all your welcomes! They certainly make me feel like I'm home. I'm really happy that I found this BB. It's so friendly, I'm not afraid to jump into a discussion. It's great! :-) Thanks for the tip, Amy and Henry. I've already started looking at the old archives and I think I'm going to go bleary eyed. I've read all the MBTI posts so far, and I've started printing them out sequentially. I'm at 460 so far and I've nearly exhausted my last stash of draft paper. Now onto more reading. (Blissful sigh!) P.S. Hopefully I won't post this three times."}, {"response": 128, "author": "Heather", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "Hello, my name is Heather and I reside in Kamloops, BC Canada. I have been snooping around this site for several months now, and the more I see of it the more wonderful I think it is. I especially enjoy reading the very creative stories in the Derbyshire Writers Guild. I was originally hooked on P&P after watching the first showing on A&E in Jan of 1996. It looked somewhat interesting at the time, and as I was unable to be present for all the parts, I taped it. After watching the tape from start to finish I was a goner! I lost count of how many times I watched it, and of course whizzing through the commercials as fast as I could. Then as a next step I had to purchase the book and read that a few times. What a wonderful new experience when my husband and kids bought the video set for my birthday, how dare they leave out those extra parts on the TV version!! In any case, the originator of this site is a genius, and it appears that the ideas are endless as far as P&P goes.. To give a very brief bio, I have two kids 6 and 4 and they keep me busy, so I can't always be chatting &/or snooping at regular times."}, {"response": 129, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "Several months, Heather? Goodness. Well glad to see you come out."}, {"response": 130, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (21:55)", "body": "Hello, Heather. I hope you will be able to join us occasionally. You will find that many of us post whenever the free moment hits. As a Jane Austen fan since the age of 13, I a pleased that you enjoyed the book as well as the adaptation. My enjoyment of P&P2 is exceeded only by my love of the novel itself! Welcome, and join in whenever you can."}, {"response": 131, "author": "Heather", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "Thank you for your warm welcomes."}, {"response": 132, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "This is only a newbie test. Having troubles with my mail system. In case of a real emergency you would have been directed to your library with your favorite JA book."}, {"response": 133, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:15)", "body": "Hi everyone! I've been going in the chat room for about two weeks now, so I'm not totally new, just newer. I recognize a lot of your names from the chat room. I've been on the Austen-L for about six months, but never heard of this place before someone posted the Spring address to the list just a few weeks ago. This is a lot more fun! In fact, this place is about the most amusing one I've been to on the Internet. I used to spend my time cruising around to find sites to link to my web pages (not at all Austen-rela ed). I appreciate the companionablity, humour, and politeness here. It is such a thrill to connect with people all over the world to share views and most of all to check reality at the door! Many, many thanks to Amy for getting this thing going, and to HC and others who were involved in starting it up. Also thanks to those who have made me feel welcome in my recent visits to the chat room. It will not surprise you to hear that until I found the Spring and Pemberley I thought there was something wrong with me for being so obsessed about this!"}, {"response": 134, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:19)", "body": "Hello, Barbara. I have seen your posts to Austen-l, so I feel like I know you already. Glad you found Austen at Spring (in the springtime)."}, {"response": 135, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:59)", "body": "Hello Barbara. I've seen your name on some other posts and didn't realize you were new here. I'm interested in what you said about AustenL - I've never really looked into it but have been thinking about it. Is it very serious and highbrow? And is it run by e-mail? If so, I'll think I'll give it a pass!! The Spring is such a great place I find I spend all my time here!;-)"}, {"response": 136, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (20:04)", "body": "Hi everyone. I am happily situated in Oak Park, ILL, with my wife, son (21) and daughter (17). I was very much taken by P&P2 when it first aired, and my thoughtful chilldren have given me the video recently for my birthday! A while ago, I stumbled upon the following P&P summary, which I hope will be as delightful by you: Pride and Prejudice, by Mary Hothby 'Marry well', is Bennet tenet: Bingley singly must remain Since classy Darcy (Lizzy-dizzy) thinks he's far too good for Jane. Rummy mummy, jaunty aunty, these would drag both gallants down - Plus the younger siblings' dribblings over officers in town. See the specious Wicham trick'em with his tales of birthright gloom, See how hideous Lydia's ruin looms before she gets her groom; Glassy Darcy saves the bacon, shaken out of former pride: Is he Lizzy's destined love, to shove her prejudice aside? Has she clout to flout that matron, patroness of priestly coz (He whose ludicrous proposing Rosings rules - like all he does)? Darcy oughter court her daughter, destined his through two decades ... 'Mulish, foolish girl, remember Pemberley's polluted shades!' Dare she share his greate estate, or can't Aunt Catherine be defied? Yes! and ere the bells ring jingly, Bingley too shall claim his bride. from: 'How to Become Ridiculously Well-Read in One Evening'"}, {"response": 137, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "We're so glad to have you here, Barbara."}, {"response": 138, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (20:08)", "body": "BillF, what a chuckle"}, {"response": 139, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (20:16)", "body": "BillF -- too funny. Nice to meet you, hope you enjoy Austen conference."}, {"response": 140, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (20:21)", "body": "Thanks for the warm welcome. The book also has summaries for Emma, Mansfield, Persuasion, and Sense and Sensibility. There a bit longer, but I'm willing to post them later if there is any interest."}, {"response": 141, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (20:23)", "body": "BillF, love the poem/jingle. Welcome!"}, {"response": 142, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (20:28)", "body": "Bill, by all means, do share!"}, {"response": 143, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (20:47)", "body": "Barbara an official welcome since we shared a few words, and Bill glad you're aboard and pray share some more, warm welcome"}, {"response": 144, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (21:00)", "body": "Thanks, Bill and welcome. I used to live in Western Springs. Do post the others."}, {"response": 145, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (23:21)", "body": "Welcome, everyone, and thanks for the input!"}, {"response": 146, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (15:04)", "body": "I see new people are entering all the time; how nice and welcome to you all. Very funny Bill, I'd love to see the other ones."}, {"response": 147, "author": "jajones", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (16:54)", "body": "Hello from another newcomer. I am a resident of Brooklyn Heights, New York, transplanted some 15 years ago from the Gulf Coast of Texas. I do fundraising for an Independent school in Brooklyn Heights where my three kids are in pre- and lower school. In my spare time (hah!) I love to read and study Jane Austin. I am particularly delighted to find this group because I had recently been thinking that it would be fun to attempt to write the scenes that do not appear in Ms. Austin's novels -- and here you re doing it!"}, {"response": 148, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (16:58)", "body": "Hi Jacque. Do you have any scenes already in mind? If so, we're all \"ears\" as it were! (I myself do not write, but I enjoy the fanfic immensely.) Texas to Brooklyn Heights, huh? Quite a move. Have you noticed the Austin, TX connection here for the Spring Conferences? Anyway, welcome."}, {"response": 149, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "Glad you liked the P&P jingle. I posted the entry for 'Emma' in Favorite Books (topic 207). Was that the correct posting place? Or should I post them here? Anyway, let me know and I will add the other entries later. Thanks."}, {"response": 150, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (22:03)", "body": "Go ahead and start a topic, Bill."}, {"response": 151, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (10:23)", "body": "Warm welcome Jacque to our little gathering"}, {"response": 152, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (20:18)", "body": "Welcome Jacque. We are neighbors, sort of. I live about 75 miles north in Poughkeepsie."}, {"response": 153, "author": "Genette", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (21:25)", "body": "Greetings! I just discovered this site a couple of weeks ago. I first read Pride and Prejudice when I was 11. Am now 29. I'd say I understand it a lot better now!:) I fell in love with PP2 on first broadcast and have rewatched my recording of it about 100 times (at least that is what my husband thinks). I have really been enjoying the Writers Guild and am even trying my hand at a first fanfic myself. (Hopefully will develop courage to post by time I finish.) I too have always considered myself somewhat \"fannish.\" In addition to PP2 I enjoy Star Trek: The Next Generation, Lois and Clark (The New Adventures of Superman), Gone With The Wind, Broadway Musicals, Last of the Mohicans, Val Kilmer, and much science fiction. In real life I am in Marketing for a company that does outreach products for churches. I work a lot. My husband is an engineer. (He also works a lot.) We have 2 wonderful cats. We also enjoy gardening and cooking the fruits of our labors. Hope that's not too much. It's nice to meet you all!"}, {"response": 154, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Hi Genette. Another writer -- super! I look forward to reading your offerings. ;-) You sound very busy; I am glad you have time for P&P2 (and for Austen conference). Welcome aboard."}, {"response": 155, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:15)", "body": "am even trying my hand at a first fanfic myself. (Hopefully will develop courage to post by time I finish.) Genette, will be looking forward to it! Last of the Mohicans, Val Kilmer *SIGH* %-)"}, {"response": 156, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (23:36)", "body": "Welcome officially Genette, we have exchanged drool confessions, it's nice to learn more about you--besides your good taste, that is! ;-)"}, {"response": 157, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (09:38)", "body": "I first read Pride and Prejudice when I was 11. Just like me! I'm still 11 ;-) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 122, "subject": "Persuasion", "response_count": 128, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (23:23)", "body": "Thanks for the info Lisa. I've been trying to find when Persuasion would be airing for months."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (23:35)", "body": "Lisa, what's the deal with your brother?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (01:10)", "body": "Where do I begin? He has always been an instigator and a person who thrives on controversy and going against the grain. We live in Montreal but he's a Bruin and Met fan much to my chagrin. What can I say? He loves to torment me! His opinions on P&P are quite different from mine even though his are based solely from the television series. He hasn't read the book and is unlikely to do so but our discussions are lively and interesting. Please do not cast me out because of my tainted association with him! After all, a little spice adds flavour to the sauce."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (03:26)", "body": "Lisa: \"Please do not cast me out because of my tainted association with him!\" Have no fear, Lisa, you shall not be cut off! We all have embarrasing relations, why, even our beloved heroine had one or, even four herself! But fortunately, our irritating kin do not have access to The Spring, yours, unfortunately, does. ;-)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (05:46)", "body": "I think he deserves a chance, Lisa. You will help him \"get\" our particular polite flavor of contentiousness, though, right? Help us out."}, {"response": 6, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (10:01)", "body": "I'll try my best but he has a strong mind of his own and he rarely ever listens to me!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (18:29)", "body": "How old is Mr. Mike? I gather he is a. . .young man?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "cat", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (19:45)", "body": "He is 21...I think"}, {"response": 9, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "I'm sorry I'm a bit lost on this one but did we set any dates for our Pursuasion viewing? I'm still interested in doing it. Anyone else? Mich"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (20:37)", "body": "I don't think we set dates yet. Maybe a week or so after P&P1 dies? Cheryl, do you wish to organise us?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (21:36)", "body": "I believe that Cheryl is planning on doing a massive organization of coordinated viewings and discussions... stay tuned for the forthcoming schedule... :-)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (03:47)", "body": "I put together a virtual viewing schedule for Jan and Feb and gave it to Amy to post where she thought best. For those who cannot wait, we will do Nostromo, of course, this next week, then Persuasion on Jan. 19. Full schedule to follow soon...(Amy?)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (04:34)", "body": "Cheryl, I did not see that."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (15:59)", "body": "oh, dear...I sent it two days ago...I shall send another one off to you directly!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (16:08)", "body": "Amy, I just sent off another schedule...let me know if you didn't get it."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Kim", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (09:50)", "body": "Is this a new version of Persuasion or the old BBC one?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (09:55)", "body": "Hi, Kim The Amanda Root version is going to be reviewed first,then the BBC version. Look at the Calendar Link. You have to register, no big deal. Nice to see that your back Kim."}, {"response": 18, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (11:03)", "body": "I don't have a way of seeing the old BBC version of Persuasion. Only if I buy it, and well guys I'm trying to save for a trip to Florida with the little one. I am in definite need of 80 degree weather and Mickey Mouse. I can rent the Amanda Root version no problemo."}, {"response": 19, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (11:51)", "body": "Laura, I have the old version. Call me."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (14:25)", "body": "LauraM: \"I don't have a way of seeing the old BBC version of Persuasion. Only if I buy it...\" Folks, the BBC viewings are different from the general group Virtual Views. Some of our number discovered that we had the old 70's and 80's BBC adaptations and wanted to discuss them so I'm setting up some informal view/discussion dates to run between the main VirtViews. These will be listed on the calendar with the heading \"Old BBC...\" If you have these videos also, please feel free to join us (there is a topic here called \"BBC Videos\" or something) but please don't feel obligated to do so or to go buy these videos so as to participate. Some of the bigger chains will have them to rent, but I wouldn't advise laying out a lot of money for these videos that are not really of good quality. I believe the general concensus is that Emma is best of the lot and that some of them are pretty bad! This is mainly just an opportunity for ma y of us to bitch and moan and compare them to the newer, and many feel, more enjoyable adaptations. And also just because we have to wallow in our JA addiction using whatever means at our disposal! ;-) Did I scare anyone off? ;-)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (14:45)", "body": "Did I scare anyone off? ;-) Not a soul. ;-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (15:39)", "body": "Cheryl: \"Did I scare anyone off? ;-)\" Myretta: \"Not a soul. ;-)\" Well, I knew I would not scare you , Myretta! You who have stood toe-to-toe with \"the Weasel Woman!\" ;-)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Belinda", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:55)", "body": "I agree with Cheryl on buying some of the old BBC adaptions: I think the old BBC Persuasion is probably the worst of the JA adaptions ... so not buy it! Terrible casting. Similarly Northanger Abbey is slightly more bearable but the actors are somewhat .... irritating."}, {"response": 24, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "I saw the Beeb Northanger Abbey & wasn't too impressed. I thought their S&S wasn't bad (the actress who plays Charlotte Lucas in P&P1 is Elinore)."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (19:02)", "body": "VirtView Discussion of Persuasion begins Sunday, January 19 Use this topic to discuss Amanda Root Persuasion."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (07:05)", "body": "I can't stand Mary Musgrove. Too unkind"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (09:11)", "body": "Amy, when I click your hypertext, a sweet but rather empty little square with Netscape N and diminish, make larger or close options. Was this your intension? Teasing woman!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (10:24)", "body": "It was saved in M-S *.wav format. I've changed it now. Maybe it will work. Sorry for the play. I will take my new sound play to austentest."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (10:35)", "body": "Madame Directoire? Look what I saw in chat this morning? From: eva at 1/19/97 11:02 AM so when is the chat on Persuasion??? Should we schedule something, do you think?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (10:40)", "body": "The only part that I wasn't clear on was that Mr.Elliot and Mrs. Clay ran off together in the book. I haven only read Persusaion once I missed that entire part(or didn't recall) it does come near the end of the book. Between computer info, JA info and everyday family obligations it can be a little much.;-)"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "Eva to cute or what,Amy LOL Got to check it out."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (15:00)", "body": "Amy, LOL re: your \"Too Unkind\"! I'm with you, I also can't stand Mary Musgrove. Wanted to strangle her even just from reading the book!;-)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "Eizabeth should have been more handsome, if you go by the book; it doesn't affect the plot though. I thought Sir Elliot very well played; horribly funny and horrible..."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (17:06)", "body": "I like the actress who plays Elizabeth when she plays sweet roles. Like in Maurice."}, {"response": 35, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (17:09)", "body": "A beautiful movie from a beautiful book. I loved the part where Anne first goes to stay w/ Mary & Charles, and everyone confides in Anne (w/o asking if she has any difficulties, of course)."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (17:12)", "body": "I really like this version of Persuasion...Amanda Root's eyes are so expressive, I felt so much for her and her struggles to maintain her composure around Captain Wentworth, I especially like the way she grips the chair when she sees Frederick for the first time after all those years! I know the *gasp* public kiss at the end has been a point of controversy, but I do like it very much...how it is all done in slow motion, savoring each moment...the hand clasp, leaning in, the kiss, how she slowly takes his arm afterwards and they turn to walk up the street, completely oblivious to the upheaval all around them. I never considered myself a particularily romantic person (a lewd person, perhaps, but not a sighing, mooning type person...but I suppose the time has come to admit that perhaps I am... sigh I too, hate Mary but shall save that for another post...;-)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (17:23)", "body": "\"I too, hate Mary. . . .\" Yes, Mary is not a likeable character. But Sophie Thompson, the actress who plays her, is super. She played her very much the way Jane Austen wrote her, IMO. [Cheryl, how could anyone ever think you are lewd?! I am sure someone put this idea into your impressionable mind, and you have taken it much too much to heart -- or someplace else, perhaps. ;-)]"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (17:55)", "body": "]I loved the part where Anne first goes to stay w/ Mary & Charles I also liked the use of a cart to take Anne to Uppercroft after the carriage for the party to Bath, with the bowing tenants lined up (I know Lady Russell took her in the book); it nicely shows Anne's standing with her family."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "]Sophie Thompson, the actress who plays her, is super. I too think she gives a very good representation of Mary. I also thought she did a really good job as Miss Bates in Emma2."}, {"response": 40, "author": "mich", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:44)", "body": "This adaptation was wonderful. I thought Ciran Hines & Amanda Root did an excellent job bringing the Characters to life. Capt.W indifference to Anne in the beginning broke my heart. The way AE\ufffds family treated her made me SO MAD at times. I found Elizabeth behavior towards Anne much worse than Mary\ufffds. Mary & Elizabeth differ in that Mary is stupid where Elizabeth (in this adaptation) is vicious and down right mean. I\ufffdm not defending Mary\ufffds behavior but with a father like Sir Elliot and an older sister like Elizabeth I\ufffdm not surprised she turned out the way she did. I have just as much desire to SLAP EE as Miss B. I liked AE very much but there were times I found her willingness to b treated poorly frustrating. How about when, during the \ufffdvery long walk\ufffd Mary told Anne\ufffds to move from her spot on the log so she could sit there. I have to laugh when I think of her trying that with some of you folks. I didn\ufffdt like the way the Mr. Elliot subplot was handled. I don\ufffdt think you get an accurate picture of what a despicable man Mr.E really was without the addition of what he did to Mrs. Smith. Couple things I found confusing the first time I viewed Why did Mr.E & Mrs. Clay meet secretly? I\ufffdm thinking of when Mary & Anne see them in bath from the Musgrove\ufffds room. Why at the end did Mrs. Clay stand up and glare at Mr.E when Capt. W asked for AE hand? Were they trying to imply some sort of conspiracy between the two? The way they had Louisa Musgroves hair always falling in her face & unkept was a nice touch. I thought it highlighted how elegant AE was in character & appearance compared to LM. OOP\ufffds to the film makers for the dress switch on AE scene coming out of Mrs. Smith\ufffds the last time. I'll end here and add more later Mich"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:53)", "body": "Kathleen: [Cheryl, how could anyone ever think you are lewd?! I am sure someone put this idea into your impressionable mind, and you have taken it much too much to heart -- or someplace else, perhaps. ;-)] Kathleen, thank you...I think...????"}, {"response": 42, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (20:28)", "body": "I really enjoyed the protrayal of Mary. Her brand of offensiveness does not make me cringe as the Bennet family does. She sniffs that she does not \"like the sea\" when the others are planning the trip to Lyme. she orders dry toast as the others talk of a seaside breakfast. she always says the wrong thing and always thinks she is saying exactly the right thing!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "] Her brand of offensiveness does not make me cringe as the Bennet family does. __ It's worse for me. But you are right in making the distinction. I never thought about it, but it is a different kind of cringing. Just as Aunt Norris provokes her own flavor."}, {"response": 44, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (20:44)", "body": "Mary has no power - or apparently has none. She cannot do any harm - no one takes her seriously - no one cares much what she says - no one judges Anne by Mary's behavior. People might roll their eyes but that is all. Her demanding to stay at Lyme was the worst thing she did - but it really made no difference. Mrs. Hargrove did all the nursing anyway so Louisa was well taken care of."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (20:52)", "body": "I wish I possessed as much forebearance. I let people like Mary get to me."}, {"response": 46, "author": "jane", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "Amy: I like the actress who plays Elizabeth when she plays sweet roles. Like in Maurice. She was also great in Brideshead Revisited, as Cordelia. I agree with Donna and Mich that the Mrs. Clay/Mr. Eliot connection wasn't clear in the movie. Even in the book, it is a little odd that Mr. Eliot somehow thought he could keep her away from Sir Eliot. But really, I love this movie so much. I like the way everyone looks a little bit scruffy---Capt. Wentworth looks like he could use a dip in a big brass tub (now, why didn't the screenwriter think of that...) I like the way the faces were not Hollywood-beautiful, but really interesting. Louisa Musgrove had such a lovely fresh face."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (00:10)", "body": "Jane: I like the way everyone looks a little bit scruffy Yes, Jane, these were real people, I liked that!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (04:48)", "body": "Amy: It was saved in M-S *.wav format. I've changed it now. Maybe it will work. It downloaded but when it attempted to play, a message popped up saying that the sound file was invalid. :-("}, {"response": 49, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (04:51)", "body": "Amy: It was saved in M-S *.wav format. I've changed it now. Maybe it will work. It downloaded but when it attempted to play, a message popped up saying that the sound file was invalid. :-("}, {"response": 50, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (13:13)", "body": "It seemed that in the film, Elizabeth was almost the mistress and Anne some kind of lowly servant. I too loved Amanda Root's portrayal -- it was exactly right. If they had cast some glamour babe with tons of makeup, it would have ruined the whole story."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (16:52)", "body": "] Even in the book, it is a little odd that Mr. Eliot somehow thought he could keep her away from Sir Eliot. It has been suggested that this, and a few other loose ends in the book are the result of JA finishing it in a hurry, because her advancing illness prevented her from 'polishing' it any further. JA seems to have worked by completing a draft, then going over it, expanding it and refining it several times; she may not have had time to do this with Persuasion (it is much shorter than her other 'mature' novels)."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "I really enjoyed this from start to finish. I must admit, however, that I become so immersed in the timeframe that when I realized that they were going to kiss - and in front of the whole town - I audibly gasped in horror. Certainly Anne Elliot had better breeding than that! Other than that, I quite enjoyed the entire movie, and thought that the minor changes they had to make because of time restrictions were most appropriate."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (18:39)", "body": "Kaff in Persuasion when would they have been able to kiss? Between that meeting and the evening party they wouldn't have kissed at all like in Sense and Sensiblity. They would have had to make the movie longer."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (18:51)", "body": "Well, having the kiss was kind of a Hollywood payoff - can't have a movie where you don't see the kiss! I would've preferred it if they had postponed it until the last scene, on the ship. For me, losing the kiss would have added to the realism without detracting from the romance."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (18:58)", "body": "] they were going to kiss - and in front of the whole town - I audibly gasped in horror. the kiss didn't bother me so much; one could imagine that the circus had distracted people and given them virtual privacy; and besides, the kiss was fairly restrained. The thing that did bother me was Wentworth's public announcement of their enegagement at the dinner party; most improper - he should have asked for Sir Walter's consent in private, and then they would have told their friends quietly, with a general announcement in the socieety papers. Blurtin it out at the dinner like that would have been improper and vulgar, I don't' think Wentworth would have behaved in such a way."}, {"response": 56, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "After reading the book, many things were clearer to me. There are scenes in the movie that are not in the book, and just like in P&P, there is more to the story in the end, that this movie skips over. For instance, the book explains that after they are married, Wentworth assists Mrs. Smith in acquiring the lost property belonging to her husband and thereby improves her standard of living. Anne and Wentworth also have a definite 'heart to heart' in a park after she reads his letter and meets him outside the building. I really like this movie but after reading the book, the way they ended it became a disappointment."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:23)", "body": "Some disconnected thoughts.... 1. Captain Wentworth is my kind of hero and Sophy Croft's life is so like mine it's unreal.Just wish I could afford to rent Kellynch. 2. Watched with my husband, who has never read the book, and got no build-up from me beforehand. His comments: \"Boy, he must really be in love if he's still mad at her after seven years!\" \"Is Sir Walter sleeping with that other woman?\" \" Is he supposed to be a closet Gay?\" Maybe I should make him read Austen-L 3. Best Actress Award should be shared by Amanda Root, Fiona Shaw, and Sophie Thompson. 4. I gotta buy it."}, {"response": 58, "author": "amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:27)", "body": "I love Mrs Croft in this film, too. When she is talking about the places she has been and the times she was frightened? So sweet."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (09:39)", "body": "I, too, loved this adaptation. It is very true to the book until the end. In less than 30 additional minutes, they could have told the story of Mrs. Smith's relationship with Mr. Elliot and explained the Mr. Elliot/Mrs. Clay situation; oh, well! Mary Musgrove is a most annoying, selfish, self-centered character. I wanted to slap her several times. But, I loved Sophie Thompson's excellent portrayal. I had not visualized Elizabeth Elliot as being quite as mean and nasty as she was portrayed (Phoebe Nicholls ??). I was a little bothered by the public kiss; more bothered by Captain Wentworth's public request for Anne's hand. Was most bothered by the voice-over of the letter. I wish that they had used Captain Wentworth's voice for the entire letter (which was relatively short). Some of the words were difficult to make out during the voice transitions. And, that letter was sooooo powerful; I really regret losing a single syllable. Linda"}, {"response": 60, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (11:04)", "body": "That letter was KILLER. I think it's one of the most powerful things Austen wrote. Anna - I too recall reading that JA wasn't able to polish PERSUASION fully due to her illness."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Karen", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "Linda and Amy2, I whole heartedly agree with you regarding the letter. I enjoyed the entire adaptation but the letter sent me into a romantic frenzy. I had to find the novel (somehow I missed JA in high school) and read that letter. It was fantastic! From the first words (You pierce my soul. . .), I just knew this had to be one of the greatest love stories ever. If P&P2 had not come out, this would be my favorite adaptation."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Kim", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (10:40)", "body": "My favorite part of the movie takes place at the concert. It seem as if Wentworth is getting ready to declare hinself when Anne must join her party.He looks so in love!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (11:21)", "body": "That concert scene was hot, hot, hot!! And that letter - if Darcy had written in such a fashion to Lizzy after Proposal #1, she might have gone running after him into Rosings!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "]Mary has no power - or apparently has none. She cannot do any harm - no one takes her seriously - no one cares much what she says - no one judges Anne by Mary's behavior. Perhaps, but some of Mary's words are really getting to Anne. Words CAN arm sometimes. And how little she might count, it still hurts. ]Her (Mary's) brand of offensiveness does not make me cringe as the Bennet family does. But boy can she make your skin crawl. Isn't there anything worst than someone who hurts another without even knowing it? Reminds me of my mother in law (no kidding) always a disobliging word (think sword in the heart), she's not mean she's just truthfull, and by that can say anything without a conscience. Excellent interpretation from Ms Thompson, what a difference with her role in Emma. And the same to be said of Fiona Shaw, with a endearing portrayal of a loving and intrepid but down to earth wife compare to her very mean and ugly character in Jane Eyre. ]Was most bothered by the voice-over of the letter. I wish that they had used Captain Wentworth's voice for the entire letter (which was relatively short). Some of the words were difficult to make out during the voice transitions. And, that letter was sooooo powerful; I really regret losing a single syllable. So true. ]My favorite part of the movie takes place at the concert. It seem as if Wentworth is getting ready to declare himself when Anne must join her party.He looks so in love! He does misses to totally declare himself by a tenth of a second does he not. But following, that's when I REALLY don't understand Capt. Wentworth's so blunt refusal or should I say his coldness (dare I say disdain toward Anne's) at staying at the concert, especially after Anne's rushing to him and expressing her response \" but this is a love song\" sentence. That perplexes me most utterly Darcy with that letter, OOOOhhhhh Baby!!!!"}, {"response": 65, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (13:46)", "body": "I REALLY don't understand Capt. Wentworth's so blunt refusal or should I say his coldness(dare I say disdain toward Anne's) at staying at the concert, especially after Anne's rushing to himand expressing her response \" but this is a love song\" sentence. That perplexes me most utterly Anne, is this not Wentworth trying to protect himself from being hurt by her again? He is in a public place,watching her pay attention to Mr Elliott,and all the old wounds that he has been ignoring for years have suddenly opened up again. He protects himself with sarcasm at the beginning of the scene\"No, I have come for a lecture in Navigation!\"and he is about to take himself off again before he loses face and makes a real fool of himself.Now, if there was ahandy window, he could have pretended to stare o t of it, like someone else we know! But he hasno reason to stay, no guests of his own, and the only reason for him being there is torturing him.He is not in the mood to be conciliating!"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (13:47)", "body": "Sorry, Johanne! Your name got shortened in the passion to defend my favourite Austen Hero!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (15:54)", "body": "Love passion, what would we do without it, indeed ;) but still, was rather disturb of his opened coldness, forcefull enough for others to turn around at this spectacle."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (16:55)", "body": "Johanne dear, come to Pemberley! :-)"}, {"response": 69, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (16:57)", "body": "] Johanne dear, come to Pemberley! :-) __ The widow spider"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (17:06)", "body": "Amy: The widow spider Amy! ;-p I prefer to think of myself as the Pied Piper, no wait, he lured the rats to their deaths. :-( What about a Siren? No...same thing...:-( Oh hell!"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "Candyman?"}, {"response": 72, "author": "claudine", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (17:15)", "body": "I'm rather new at this, so pardon my awkwardness in posting... in response to messageg# 56 of 67f from Mary C. Fox (MaryC) * Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:00) ]the building. I really like this movie but after reading the book, the way they ended it became a disappointment. I've only made it to the middle of the book, but I must admit that I too, was a little disapointed with the ending. Anne and Wentworth, in the final scene, certainly did not look like the same couple who kissed in the streets of Bath, oblivious to the harlequins, dancers, and various costumed circus folk and townspeople around them. On board W's ship. there wasn't even a touch, and as the scene ended AE and W were staring off in different directions. One might speculate, though, that this was because t ey were obliged to exercise more propriety on board Wentworth's ship...(?) Or does the scene imply an unstated understanding between two individuals so much in love and so used to each other that nothing else is needed? What do all of you think?"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (17:27)", "body": "Or does the scene imply an unstated understanding between two individuals so much in love and so used to each other that nothing else is needed? __ Their smiles and contentment spoke volumes. Of course, this was not in the book either. We never hear if Anne does follow Sophie's life's path. I've had a secret hope that the ship is taking Napolean to St Helena and Anne instructs Nap on the proper blend of prose and poetry for one in exile."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Lynbl", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (17:40)", "body": "Did anyone see the early BBC production? I thought Anne looked as if she was in her 40s! And the only thing that fascinated me about her was the fear that her awful hairdo would tumble... I felt that she was so worried about it, that it made her very careful how she moved! I couldn't see Anne being bothered with creating such a thing. I liked Brian Marshall as Captain Wentworth in that production, but over-all would have to agree with you all that this latest show is the best by far. And that letter - I couldn't help thinking that it was obvious that it was written by a women, knowing what a women would swoon over."}, {"response": 75, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (18:26)", "body": "I am going to pick up the BBC version tonight. Johanne: The meanest words in the movie - when Mary says to Anne, \"YOU haven't a mother's feelings...\""}, {"response": 76, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (21:36)", "body": "Mary: you are all right in disliking her so much. But I did enjoy her character in the movie, while in the book I felt her oppressive. Her tacky mouth makes Anne turn away in shame in the book. In the movie, we see less of Anne's feelings when Mary is 'performing' and more of glimmer of amusement in everyone else - and we know Anne is not in anyway part of the object of that amusement. Mary seems to me, as I watch the movie, like someone being officious in a vacuum. Nobody cares. They notice only to smile secretly at one another."}, {"response": 77, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (22:23)", "body": "]Johanne: The meanest words in the movie - when Mary says to Anne, \"YOU haven't a mother's feelings...\" ;) coming from someone who as barely a clue of what it is to be one (bare with me the possibility of some not having the maternal instinct) Resembles something I heard once before (see my previous post for the clue : which implies another woman point of view is simply wrong in her view, TSK TSK) ]They notice only to smile secretly at one another. It's too bad when company has to resort to this, but...on r\ufffdcolte ce que l'on s\ufffdme"}, {"response": 78, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (00:26)", "body": "Question. If Elizabeth (who was a true viper) was so handsome and she is older than Anne, why is it that no one it says Elizabeth is an old maid. It's not like she has this great personality. Casting the actress who played in the role made it clear why she had no suitors but I don't recall JA mentioning it either. Can someone offer some thoughts?"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (00:53)", "body": "I think JA made her sufficiently cold and vain, enough to let us imagine her trouble in finding a mate."}, {"response": 80, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (12:19)", "body": "I have similar questions about why Miss Bingley was not talked about as an old maid; surely she was older than Lizzy; and was unmarried for about the same reasons as Persuasion's Elizabeth."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (12:53)", "body": "About Miss Bingley--maybe it was because she was rich. What was that line from Emma about a single woman always being respectable provided she had money? Of course, that doesn't explain Elizabeth. Maybe it all comes down to the ladies' arrogance--I personally would quail before saying something contemptuous about either Caroline or Elizabeth."}, {"response": 82, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (16:32)", "body": "] Miss Bingley was not talked about as an old maid; surely she was older than Lizzy I don't think there's any evidence either way in the book, although it was cast that way in P&P2"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "I was in the video store tonight and saw a video of PERSUASION that featured a couple on the cover that looked like something from a Harlequin romance novel. I thought that maybe there was a version I didn't know about, so I picked up the box. It was the Amanda Root version!! They used two models who aren't in the movie for the cover of the video! I could only think that anyone who isn't familiar with Austen and rents the video because it looks like a bodice-ripper is most certainly going to be disappointed (or else discover a type of romance eminently more satisfying than Harlequins)."}, {"response": 84, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (18:37)", "body": "I was glad to read of the comments regarding the voiceover of the letter. I found that so distracting when the words are so beautiful. I have the old BBC version and agree that that Anne looked quite a bit older. There was also something \"funny\" about her (can't explain it any better than that), but otherwise I thought it was very good. As for Amanda Root's portrayal, I had a hard time with it. The book doesn't say Anne is ugly, just that she's lost her bloom (which she gets back at the end). AR did not strike me as somebody who would incite long-term passion. She just wasn't Anne for me."}, {"response": 85, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "'AR did not strike me as somebody who would incite long-term passion.' Ah comeon, Susan. She wasn't THAT bad! And by the end she was kinda cute. (Maybe he liked her for her personality. LOL.) Now in the BBC version, SHE was ugly. My little niece keep saying, \"EEEWWWWW, look at her hair.\" What bothered me even more about her appearance was her mouth. There is just something not right. But then at least in the BBC version, Frederick in a hound dog as well. Neither one of them had a personality that I found endearing, either. And Kathleen, my video was packaged the same way. Fraudulent advertising to attract those who don't know any better."}, {"response": 86, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (21:38)", "body": "This is an article from Time about Persusaion November 1995 Who will see Persusaion , the glorious adapation of Jane Austen's last novel,and say, \"I am Anne Elliot\"? Any good woman, or man, who feels overqualified and underappreciated. In the bustling society of Bath, Anne (Amanda Root) tends to everyone's needs while shielding her broken heart from the sudden reappearance of the man (Ciaran Hinds) she ever loved. Anne is the sort of sweet spinster whose beguilements are so unnoticed by her family that, should the prince charming ever announce that he wish s to marry Cinderella, her pompus father would exclaim in shock, \"What ever for?\" Thriftily made, Persuasion manages to be both, panoramic and intimate,satiric and poignant. Its gifted cast includes old friends(Corin Redgrave, Smauel West, Fiona Shaw) and new ones (Hinds,whose intensity suggests a more regal Kevin Costner). But its leading lady is the true treasure. There are faces the camera loves at first sight, like Sandra Bullock's and those the camera learns to love, like Root's. Her beauty is a secret she shares only with the audience. This is a movie that recognizes th luster in kindness, and in which an image of one hand touching another can convey a profound emotional jolt. Persuasion is (ahem)British. It was written and directed by (sigh) men-Nick Dear and Rodger Michell. Nobody's saying that the Brits have a lock on domestic drama or that it takes guys to make a superior women's film. Persusaion is simply that one little movie that gets thing done. To perfection. -RC It was titled under \"Women of the Year\" and subtitled \"That Feminine Touch\" that is why the reference to \"men\" making the movie. \"Women of the Year\" this quote was under this title. They're gaining power in Hollywood and using it to make films that woman-and men-want to see. This also the time when Clueless came out and a few others. I can really appreciate this review now more then ever. Donna."}, {"response": 87, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (00:49)", "body": "Re 85 Susan, I must admit, I agree with your comment of Amanda Root whole heartedly. Sorry for her fans, but can help it. Had the same impression, particularly when she looks in the mirror and is suppose to gotten back a bit of her youth/beauty. It did'nt do it for me at all. Also, she's suppose to be the calm pillar of strenghth. I found a rather peek of weakness instead. Or maybe a certain lack of passion disturb my liking it. Emma Thompson's portrayal in S&S was more passionate and she was the rational one. ike you said Susan : did'nt ignite passion and neither had really it. Do not mistake, I very much enjoyed Persuasion but it comes after my preference of (evidently)P&P2 and I must say, (do not be alarm, please) Paltrow's Emma. no offense intended..."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "I like the Roots/Hinds version of Persuasion better every time I watch it. Three times so far. It has that feeling of real life, real people, 'scruffy' was it. If a girl travels on top of a carriage leaving her home and the wind is blowing, her nose should be red and her hair not all that tidy. And as they are gathered round the fireplace and making plans for the Lyme trip. one girl's hair is not at all wellcombed and someone is warming his/her foot by holding it out near the fire. It feels as if you were actually there in that cottage with them resting after an autumn walk. Found it a bit odd that Anne would actually run after Wentworth at the concert in such an obvious manner that made people turn their heads. And Why Did not Captain W. pretend to forget his gloves as he always did before and come for his umbrella instead. I think gloves are more private, and so suits this occasion better."}, {"response": 89, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (12:48)", "body": "And Why Did not Captain W. pretend to forget his gloves as he always did before and come for his umbrella instead. I think gloves are more private, and so suits this occasion better. Maybe CH made a mistake and they couldn't afford a re-take!:-}After all, actors, as well as heroes,are less endearing when they are perfect! It has that feeling of real life, real people, 'scruffy' My sentiments exactly,ma'am!Let's have more like this!"}, {"response": 90, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (14:05)", "body": "'Do not mistake, I very much enjoyed Persuasion but it comes after my preference of(evidently)P&P2 and I must say, (do not be alarm, please) Paltrow's Emma. no offense intended...' I think this is true, Susan, for many of us - and not just because of the films but the characters themselves. I for one, connect more so with Elizabeth Bennet, that I find all other Jane Austen's heroines falling short. We WANT Anne to have the strenth of character not to have let herself go, or loose her bloom, in the first place, but she didn't have it. I am sorry to pain you but so it is. I have a little trouble initially feeling for a woman that practically cuts herself off from society in regrets over mistakes she may have made, but I am happy that she gets herself together in the end."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "] I have a little trouble initially feeling for a woman that practically cuts herself off from society in regrets over mistakes she may have made, __ I wish I did not understand this either, but I do, too well."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "Thanks for the insights on Amanda Root. I do plan to watch it again, but must warn you that my good opinion, once lost, is lost forever. I forgot to mention that I loved Ciaran Hinds as Wentworth and agree that the actor in the earlier BBC production was incredibly wimpy. I saw him in Circle of Friends soon after (you can guess who I was really looking for) and liked him very well even though he had such a small role. And thank you, Sharon, for the comment on the BBC's Anne's mouth. That was the \"funny\" thing I couldn't describe, but you are spot on."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Karen", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (15:38)", "body": "Sharon, regarding your response #90, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I too so related to Elizabeth that all her other heroines fall short but I still do feel for Anne. I don't really think she has cut herself off from society; I think she is taken for granted by her family and has further reason to regret her decision to refuse Fredrick. Typically I would not have been drawn to Root's Anne but I found this adaptation wonderful. And, as Amy2 says, after Wentworth's letter, I melted (I too found the do ble voice over annoying). The depth of character revealed in Anne, Fredrick and the Crofts won me over. I understand how Root's Anne can be seen as weak but I interpreted as woman beaten down by circumstances and just trying to continue on the best she knew how. Her family was quite dreadful so I think her passivity was a coping mechanism like we've deduced Anne de Bourgh's illness to be. Sharon (and others who feel like her) I know I may not be able to convince you but maybe if you watch it a few more times (and of course read the novel to get the true depth of emotion) I believe you will grow to enjoy this adaption. I know I have posted this often but this adaption introduced me to JA and is (to me) second only to P&P2."}, {"response": 94, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (18:43)", "body": "'Sharon (and others who feel like her) I know I may not be able to convince you but maybe if you watch it a few more times (and of course read the novel to get the true depth of emotion) I believe you will grow to enjoy this adaption.' Oh, but I absolutely enjoyed this adaptation. I don't feel a need to have a great sympathy with Anne to value some of the points (as long as there is a very good one)of a narrative. There were few enough things that a woman had control over in Austen's day, but how she chose to personally respond to situations was one of them. You have to make you peace with things, and Anne is a good example of what becomes of you when you don't. Yes, we can all understand how and why Anne chose her particular path, b t would that be the answer for us? Should it be? I am a believer in physical manifestaion of the mental condition, to some extent, so all the hullabaloo about Anne's appearance in the films, particulately the Amanda Root version, does not offend nor suprise me. I viewed the film makers representation of Anne as trying to get this point across - 'This is what happens when something eats away at you.' And that is what I pointed out to my young niece."}, {"response": 95, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (19:25)", "body": "I also like the Root/Hinds version of Persuasion - the more I watch it the better I like it, except, as everyone has mentioned, the voice over with the letter. Couldn't make out a single word!! Persuasion has long been my second favorite Austen book (after P&P of course) and I think Root's interpretation was right on. I've never thought of her as particularly handsome, and she wasn't; but her eyes did have a lot more sparkle by the end of the film than at the start. I got used to Hinds - when I first saw it in a movie theatre he wasn't my idea of Frederick, but since then he's grown on me very quickly and I now like him very well indeed. His best role though, IMHO, was in Hostages as Brian Keenan. I particularly liked Sophie Thompson - she made Mary as unendurable as she is in the book, and whoever played Mrs. Croft - loved her spunky spirit, general good manners and niceness (bad word) to Anne. Elizabeth was far too ugly to have ever been thought better looking than Anne, or was she only thought that by her father?? When I finish the book again will have to watch the movie yet again!"}, {"response": 96, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (12:07)", "body": "Please, do not mistake my comments, this is a very good representation of the novel (not counting the little discrepencies like the umbrella). Amanda Roo performance was exact to the nature of Anne's character : you could feel for her struggles and her sense of lost, watching her going against the tide while going on with her life with as much serenity and phylosophy as she could. My comment resides only to comparing it to my own personnality (therefore to elements I prefer), and it's a selfish perspectiv . This film has so many remarkable moments: especially her dialogue with Capt. Harville, while W is writing the most romantic letter in any JA books. It is I believe the most faithfull image of that period and you love this film as well for having taking this avenue of representation. Comparing this with Paltrow's Emma is comparing Apples and Oranges, while both are fruits and come from trees. But you can love them both, and not for the same qualities."}, {"response": 97, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (16:35)", "body": "Ann2 ]I like the Roots/Hinds version of Persuasion better every time I watch it. Three times so far. It has that feeling of real life, real people, 'scruffy' I to like the realistic feel to this Persuasion; besides the things Ann2 points out, the way the bottom edges f the cloaks/coats gets dirty when they walk along the muddy lanes, and the way the lawn at Kellynch looked scythed; Pemberly was so manicured. Anne Elliot is second only to Elizabeth Bennet in my estimation, (a purely personal assessment), she doesn't have the fire and joie de vivre that Lizzy has; I thought Amanda Root's portrayal of her excellent. Although there were several changes made for the screen-play the only one that grated on me was the method of Wentworth's announcement at the end (which I won't rehash). I've enjoyed all the recent Jane Austen adaptations, for me Persuasion2 was only second to P&P2."}, {"response": 98, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "The realism as you say Anna is in S&S and P&P2.What was the difference in the film they use in each production. Persuasion has a quality(film) that P&P2 doesn't or maybe it is my tape. Yes, I always wondered how,who and what cut the grass."}, {"response": 99, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (18:06)", "body": "The realism as you say Anna is in S&S and P&P2.What was the difference in the film they use in each production. Persuasion has a quality(film) that P&P2 doesn't or maybe it is my tape. Yes, I always wondered how,who and what cut the grass."}, {"response": 100, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (18:09)", "body": "] Persuasion has a quality(film) that P&P2 doesn't or maybe it is my tape. on my system the film quality is better in P&P2; both are purchased tapes..."}, {"response": 101, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:46)", "body": "I thought Persuasion was exquisite! I have to agree with Caroline that she is my favorite heroine as well. How many of us have been persuaded to do something else, when we know we should have been true to our heart... A beautiful movie."}, {"response": 102, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (17:16)", "body": "I just recently saw Persuasion for the first time and was amazed! For me, Amanda Root, was Anne as I imagined her, and by the end of the movie, I began to think her almost pretty. Wentworth did not look as I thought he would, but I got used to that. And Mary was so grating I wanted to slap her-especially when she was going on about staying at Lyme, or playing the piano, or hurting Anne in a thousand small selfish ways. The scene that really got to me, however, was when Anne stayed with the sick child, and they showed the party at the house through a window outside-to me it felt and looked as lonely as Anne must have felt, and it showed her loneliness. I found myself almost hurting for her during the movie. Btw, did anyone else think that Charles looked like a stuffed mouse?"}, {"response": 103, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (21:01)", "body": "Marsha: Btw, did anyone else think that Charles looked like a stuffed mouse? hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee"}, {"response": 104, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (23:51)", "body": "Mary was so grating I wanted to slap her. The general consensus, Marsha! Btw, did anyone else think that Charles looked like a stuffed mouse? \"Chipmunk cheeks\" was how someone referred to him, I believe."}, {"response": 105, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "After fiesting at the fair in Charlotte's web, but prettier"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (09:54)", "body": "I love that Templeton character, Johanne. Did you know Hil make an enormous puppet of him?"}, {"response": 107, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "I love this adaptation, just like I love this book. I am torn between Persuasion and P&P as my favorite Austen novel. I think Amanda Root is great in this...you feel like she is a real person, like she has lost some of her bloom. And the way she looks in the mirror after Mary repeats Wentworth's comment \"he should not have known her\"!!! I love how quiet this movie is, no loud obtrusive music (although it is sometimes hard to hear the characters speaking, especially in the beginning). But I agree tota ly with the earlier comments about the voice overs on the letter.....it's such a fabulous part of the book!!! I could watch this over and over just like I could P&P (only in a much shorter time!)!!"}, {"response": 108, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (09:13)", "body": "My husband and I rented Persuasion this past weekend; I had just finished the book beforehand. I'll admit, it took me a while to get used to the realism in terms of makeup, sets, etc.....I'm rather partial to the \"ethereally glowing\" sort of heroine acheived by makeup. Still, this production grows on you! I did find, however, that I had to explain certain character relationships to my impatient husband, who had never read the book. I think that the screenplay explains the relationships adequately, but like Lynn, we had trouble hearing some of the beginning exposition and had to really crank the volume on the t.v."}, {"response": 109, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (09:23)", "body": "I can hear it now, Tracey. \"You must... retrench ,\" Lady Russell said in a soft, calm and carfeul voice. \"You must WHAT?\" yelled Mr. Tracey."}, {"response": 110, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (10:31)", "body": "LOL Amy! Yes, I had to explain \"retrench\" to my non-Austen friend whom I strong-armed (who, me?) into watching with me. In fact, I finally gave her the remote so she could pause any time she had a question! But once we hit Lyme, she stopped pausing and the \"Ooohs\" that issued from her lips during The Letter were very nice indeed! Another JA convert-- Mission Accomplished!"}, {"response": 111, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (12:19)", "body": "Amy - it was more like this: \"You must... retrench,\" Lady Russell said in a soft, calm and carfeul voice. \"Is there a war on? Who ARE these people?\" - my husband, english major and military history buff. And, to be fair, it took me a minute to figure out that Lady Russell was not talking about plumbing equipment ;-) \"Why on earth would the Elliots need a wrench?\" I guess we loud American types take longer to adjust to moderate tones........"}, {"response": 112, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "That's funny, Tracey. Different times and places. Though my 8 year old is getting to like P&P -- he loves Lydia! -- my big guy at 12 finds the guys a \"bunch of wusses.\""}, {"response": 113, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (21:43)", "body": "Templeton Amy, my mom (the snowbird) bought Laurence the video (its all new to me, haven't been brought to this tale either). Haven't heard Paul Lynd' voice since the Hollywood Square. How wonderful and creative Hil, a giant size rat :)"}, {"response": 114, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "wrench and wusses - LOL"}, {"response": 115, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (22:25)", "body": "Isn't that Charlotte's Web cartoon great, J? I love the music."}, {"response": 116, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (22:33)", "body": "Oh Yes Amy, felt like being a child all over again, and it really grows on you, you should see LA trying to sing charlotte's song and she just love it, first on the list these days (and she does not understand the language yet so it says a lot)"}, {"response": 117, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (23:11)", "body": "and she does not understand the language yet so it says a lot) __ Yes! She just feels it. Neat."}, {"response": 118, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (01:18)", "body": "Plumbing, wrench..??!! Now whose piercing the heart here!! hahaha Was there an earlier adaptation to the 1995 Amanda Root's Persuasion? Having only read the book last year so that viewing the video would make sense, I was overwhelmed by the tension between Capt Wentworth and Anne from the kitchen scene and moved to almost tears by the carriage scene which he helps her into, no words needed - just body language and understanding for each other!! That sideward glance too, so believable!! Sir Walter Elliot was played well too, as the self-centred and vain a man as he was."}, {"response": 119, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (02:08)", "body": "Serena: Was there an earlier adaptation to the 1995 Amanda Root's Persuasion? The BBC did a version of it in the 70's. We had a Virtual View of it earlier this year, the topic should still be up if you care to read our reviews. The consensus is that it was pretty bad...stick with amanda Root and Cairan Hinds! ;-)"}, {"response": 120, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (21:46)", "body": "A family friend purchased the 1995 version, hated it, and so gave it to me without hesitation...can you imagine? What generosity!"}, {"response": 121, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (21:49)", "body": "I hate the description on the back of the box: \"A young couple's stormy romance scandalizes English society in this acclaimed adaptation...\" No it doesn't! Society barely pays any attention at all."}, {"response": 122, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (22:18)", "body": "How about \"flirtatious fun\"? I didn't catch that..."}, {"response": 123, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:06)", "body": "kali, you are lucky indeed!"}, {"response": 124, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (02:34)", "body": "I have this 1965 paperback edition of Persuasion with a gothic horror front cover and quotes on the back cover from Henry's teasing tale of terror to Catherine as they drive to the abby."}, {"response": 125, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (03:59)", "body": "I think Henry has that NA cover scanned in."}, {"response": 126, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (16:39)", "body": "Persuasion a gothic tale of horror? I suppose it is all in how you look at it ;-)"}, {"response": 127, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (06:45)", "body": ""}, {"response": 128, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (06:47)", "body": "Katy, is this it? -- http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/nhabgoth.jpg http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/nhabgoth.html austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 123, "subject": "Happy Birthday!", "response_count": 130, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (18:58)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Terry!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (19:58)", "body": "Thanks! Keep this topic and we can do some virtual partying with folks on their birthdays. Is anyone else a December baby?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (20:37)", "body": "From me as well, Terry dear. Hope it has been a good one."}, {"response": 4, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (11:36)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Terry. Myretta"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (14:39)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Terry!!!!! Another of my obsessions is collecting birthdays. I currently have 279 and December 2 is not one of them. So, Terry, could I add your birthday to my list?? Hope you had a wonderful day and will have many, many more. Linda"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (14:55)", "body": "Sure can!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (15:38)", "body": "I'm Sagitarius (Dec 1)."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (17:20)", "body": "HAPPY (belated) BIRTHDAY, ANN!!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (18:31)", "body": "Happy birthday Ann, we're only a day apart (we don't talk about years)."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (18:41)", "body": "Terry, go ahead, talk about years. Kaff: love your holiday lights. I don't know about you but I have some shallow and superficial immediate aims for customizing our conference in Yapp. I'd love to find out how to get a plain white background. I don't like to transparentize backgrounds either."}, {"response": 11, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (00:19)", "body": "There's a little share-or-freeware toy for the Mac that can decorate your menubar with a string of lights that you can configure to twinkle in several different patterns."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (08:46)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Ann !!! I didn't have a December 1, either. It's been many months since I've gotten a new date and December is my sparsest month (now 17 dates filled). Making progress; 281 of 366. Thanks, folks. Linda"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (12:29)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Ann !!! I didn't have a December 1, either. It's been many months since I've gotten a new date and December is my sparsest month (now 17 dates filled). Making progress; 281 of 366. Thanks, folks. Linda"}, {"response": 14, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (16:02)", "body": "Linda, care to count me in for the 12 ? One more for your list. Happy Happy Happy Capital Day to all you fellow sagit.."}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (16:37)", "body": "We'll party it up for ya' on the 12th!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "PatK", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (19:28)", "body": "Happy belated to both Ann and Terry."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (07:23)", "body": "Happy Birthday, JohanneD !1! Have a wonderful day and many, many more."}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (09:17)", "body": "Happy Birthday JD!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (16:21)", "body": "Thanks you guys ;-) Who's next in January?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (21:20)", "body": "January babies please stand up."}, {"response": 21, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (14:36)", "body": "Today is my birthday, and among many thoughts as I contemplate my 48 years is how much learning- about Austen and computers- and sincere enjoyment this group has given me in the last few months. It is quite unlike anything in my home and job, and much cherished. A pleasant 1997 to you all!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (14:42)", "body": "Happy Birthday to you France and a Happy New Year!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (14:58)", "body": "Happy birthday France, I hope they let you party after you get done with that duct tape and your swiss army knife. How are you celebrating?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (15:03)", "body": "Happy Belated Birthday to Ann and Terry and all December people. A \"Happy New Year\" to all."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (15:10)", "body": "Happy birthday France. You've given to us too."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (16:45)", "body": "Happy Birthday. France. I never would have learned HTML if it weren't for this board, I know what you mean by learning a lot here."}, {"response": 27, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (17:09)", "body": "Happy Birthday, France. We are glad you are here, too."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (17:17)", "body": "Happy birthday France! Hope you have a wonderful day. It has been a pleasure getting to know you as well!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (18:31)", "body": "Happy birthday France."}, {"response": 30, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (18:33)", "body": "Happy birthday France."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (21:52)", "body": "Happy Birthday, France and a very happy 1997. And a belated Happy Birthday to all the December people. I, too, find I'm learning more all the time from finding all the nice people here."}, {"response": 32, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (11:21)", "body": "Thank you, everyone, for your kind thoughts. I spent my day dining at an Indian tandoori restaurant, fixing a broken screen door, and watching the entire P&P2 with my child and (finally, as a gift to me after all my talk about it) my husband! Now there'll be three of us interchanging lines like \"Make haste!\", \"How I long to...!\", \"I am all astonishment!\", \"...very ill\", \"insufferable\", \"vexed\", \"dearest, loveliest,\" etc. My sister and I are also in the process of helping each other discover things-- I 'm sharing with her this and other CF/Austen websites, while she's sharing with me CF tapes/info like A MONTH IN THE COUNTRY. Kind of gives me a Bennet sisterly feeling that's nice!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (10:53)", "body": "Happy belated one France. Indian tandoori, huhmmmmmmmm Butter chicken North India style with lots of cream perhaps?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (23:48)", "body": "Johanne, yes, plus other dishes too, buffet-style. The aromatic scents wafted us straight to nirvana! (temporarily) :-)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Tay", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (15:28)", "body": "Indian food: Oooh! My favourite ! I shall envy you your dinner! Buttered Tandoori Chicken ( Chicken Makni ) is also my supreme favourite!!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:36)", "body": "January 16th: Kathleen Elder's birthday! All together now: Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday dear Kathleen, Happy Birthday to you! (and many more!)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:40)", "body": "Just a reminder to add your birthday to the calendar, link on the front page, or if you perfer, you may email me your birthday and I'll add it to the calendar."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (07:19)", "body": "Happy Birthday dear."}, {"response": 39, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (08:28)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Kathleen"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Kathleen!!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (12:16)", "body": "Thank you all very much. At thirty-eighteen I find there are more fun and interesting things in the world every day -- and many of them can be found among this marvelous group of friends. Blessings upon all of you. kathleen"}, {"response": 42, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (22:08)", "body": "Happy birthday Kathleen. Thirty-eighteen?!? - sounds like my kind of arithmetic!!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (19:23)", "body": ""}, {"response": 44, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (19:35)", "body": "thankl you"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:26)", "body": "Happy belated birthday to everyone..."}, {"response": 46, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (23:52)", "body": "Very happy one to all you Janurary folks,"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Saman", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (13:44)", "body": "Ok I'm going to jump in first here (benefits of time zones!) Myretta - many happy returns for Wednesday 5 February! Happy birthday, and best wishes for as many more birthdays as you want :)"}, {"response": 48, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:04)", "body": "Ch\ufffdre Myretta, C'est \ufffd ton tour, de te laisser parler d'amour, Ch\ufffdre Myretta, c'est \ufffd ton tour, de te laisser parler d'amour Happy Birthday Myretta"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:11)", "body": "Okay, I know it's a day early, but here goes anyway... Have a good one, Mom! ;)"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:12)", "body": "Okay, I know it's a day early, but here goes anyway... Have a good one, Mom! ;)"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:14)", "body": "Ach! Happy birthday twice...! :}"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Becks", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:10)", "body": "Myretta, I won't be there for the party, so Best Wishes, and all, and have a good one! To those I missed in January also, a Happy Belated B-Day to you too!!!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:10)", "body": "HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MYRETTA and many, many more!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (01:19)", "body": "Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday dear Sister! Happy Birthday to you! (and many more!) *SAMOOCH*"}, {"response": 55, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (01:24)", "body": ""}, {"response": 56, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (01:28)", "body": "Oops! I forgot to mention that the orchids above are home grown - this one bloomed before the recent freeze that killed the buds on most of the others. Many happy returns!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "geekman", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (02:52)", "body": ""}, {"response": 58, "author": "geekman", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (02:55)", "body": "And a belatedly belated Birthday Greeting for all those January babies! ;-)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (04:07)", "body": "Many Happy Returns, Myretta."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (09:00)", "body": "HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!! MYRETTA"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (10:52)", "body": "Happy, happy day, from me to.... (sorry, no time for HTML today!)"}, {"response": 62, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "Thank you all. Getting to know you has made this past year of my life very special. Myretta"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "Happy Birthday Myretta! Thanks for all your help keeping this site running. I don't know what we would do without it. Hope you have a great day, and see you tonight!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (18:36)", "body": ""}, {"response": 65, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (19:50)", "body": ""}, {"response": 66, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (20:53)", "body": "LOL Amy! Wonderful!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (21:03)", "body": "God, that's great..."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (21:08)", "body": "Love it Amy, I'd like one too on 8/31!!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (21:22)", "body": "I need one of my own - how clever!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "Let me join in on the chorus, too, .... Happy Firthday (er, Birthday) to youuuuuuuuu! :p"}, {"response": 71, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "Myetta -- Well not only am I a day late, I'm not near as clever with this computer stuff as all the show offs above...But I can wish you a happy birthday with the knowlege I do have: {}'s and :*'s for a HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!"}, {"response": 72, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:51)", "body": "A very, very HEARTfelt happy birthday wish to Carolyn, on this Valentine's Day in 1997. Many happy returns."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:52)", "body": "Ditto! ;)"}, {"response": 74, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "A Very Happy Valentine Birthday to you, Carolyn! My brother's birthday is today as well!"}, {"response": 75, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "\"HAPPY BIRTHDAY!\" CAROLYN and \"Happy Valentines Day\""}, {"response": 76, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (20:26)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Carolyn!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (21:21)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Carolyn. Hope you're out celebrating this Valentine's day!"}, {"response": 78, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (22:32)", "body": "By the way it is also Colin Firth's son's mother's Birthday today (Feb 14). Meg Tilly is 37 today."}, {"response": 79, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (01:57)", "body": ""}, {"response": 80, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (01:58)", "body": "ooooops..."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (02:21)", "body": "all together now... Happy Birthday to you Happy Birthday to you Happy Birthday dear Carolyn, Happy birthday to you! (and many more!)"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (08:45)", "body": "Thank you all for the delightful birthday greetings. Hope everyone had a very happy Valentine's Day"}, {"response": 83, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "Happy belated one Carolyn"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (07:00)", "body": "Johanne, How pretty! Thank you very much."}, {"response": 85, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (01:19)", "body": "Happy Birthday to our Aussie-in-exile, Kate!!! Have a good one!"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (06:37)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Kate. Nice to have you around us."}, {"response": 87, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (06:46)", "body": "And many, many happy returns of the day!!"}, {"response": 88, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (08:38)", "body": "HBTY, Kate!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (09:09)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Kate and welcome aboard."}, {"response": 90, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (10:40)", "body": "\" Happy Birthday Kate\" \"Todays Horoscope\" It's a theartrical year ahead,with plenty of opportunities to shine. Brush up on a rarely used talent this month. A relationship that has fluctuated gets another chance in April. By June,fantastic prospects come along if you fully commit to making or breaking ties. Celebrity Profiles: George Harrison is a Pisces with his moon in another water sign,Scorpio. These two major personal planets are in a very favorable alignment, and this creates the untroubled persona that Harrison has always projected. Perhaps his mysterious Scorpio moon is what has caused him to be the most enigmatic Beatle of all."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (14:36)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Kate, and many more. Hope you celebrate in NYC, whereas yesterday you got a chance to talk to your Oz friends in Canberra."}, {"response": 92, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (21:07)", "body": "Thanks everybody. I feel somewhat overwhelmed...but I'll get over it. Funnily enough (or perhaps not really) I've felt a bit homesick today in a way I haven't since I arrived in the States. So all your good wishes are especially welcome As for the horoscope ]Brush up on a rarely used talent this month. I'll have to think about that one. I can think of one answer but it mightn't fit the PG rating...;-) ]A relationship that has fluctuated gets another chance in April. I can DEFINITELY think of one that falls into this category and look forward to April ] By June,fantastic prospects come along if you fully commit to making or breaking ties. .. Well, there will be a decision to be made about whether I go back to my job and life in Oz or stay in NYC for a bit longer..."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "You take your degree in June, Kate?"}, {"response": 94, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "I graduate on May 16, actually, but I'm staying in the US for the summer to do some travelling around. The big question is whether I go back to Australia in September or stay here a while longer."}, {"response": 95, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (01:56)", "body": "happy birthday Kate, so glad to have you with us! ;-)"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (06:18)", "body": "Happy Birthday Kate!"}, {"response": 97, "author": "mich", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "Happy B-day Kate."}, {"response": 98, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (03:26)", "body": "I'm WAY late, but happy birthday, Kate..."}, {"response": 99, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:00)", "body": "Kaff -- your topic finally comes around to YOU! A HAPPY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Kathleen Grant (Kaffeine). Many happy returns of the day. May it be a day of Jeremy (and not jeremiads). Have a good one."}, {"response": 100, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:22)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Kaff! My cosmic twin...;)"}, {"response": 101, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:25)", "body": "Happy Birthday Kaff."}, {"response": 102, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:44)", "body": "HBTY, Kaff"}, {"response": 103, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (08:15)", "body": ""}, {"response": 104, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (08:42)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Kaff. I'm so glad you're around!"}, {"response": 105, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (10:18)", "body": "Ma ch\ufffdre Kaffeine, c'est \ufffd ton tour, de te laisser parler d'amour... Have a GREAT day, Kathleen"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (11:26)", "body": "Happy birthday dearest Kaff! What we Pemberley junkies do not owe you! *samooch*"}, {"response": 107, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:26)", "body": "Happy birthday Kaff"}, {"response": 108, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:59)", "body": "Well, I thought I would be clever and wait until later this evening to try and wish a fellow celebrant happy birthday, but I see everyone has jumped ahead. Happy Birthday Kaffeine!! It's always a thrill to meet someone with the same birthday."}, {"response": 109, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:04)", "body": "Happy birthday to you, too, Lynn!"}, {"response": 110, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:11)", "body": "Happy birthday, Kaff and may all your dreams (of Jeremy) come true! Happy birthday, Lynn!"}, {"response": 111, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (17:37)", "body": "Kaff and Lynn, I hope it's a great day for you both, with many more to follow."}, {"response": 112, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (17:48)", "body": "Thank you, everyone! It has yet to begin, and already it is a special birthday thanks to you guys! :) Amy - I loved the Pemberely image! Now I just have to figure out how to get rid of my husband when Jeremy arrives! You know husbands - he's going to expect that I'll be celebrating with him! [G] Happy birthday, Lynn! My b-day is always extra fun these days, because my husband's best friend (who's a terrific guy) shares my birthday - so the four of us always do something special (usually trips, although not this year) to celebrate. You'll just have to join us in our adventures from now on! :)"}, {"response": 113, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (19:10)", "body": "Happy Day to Lynn, as well."}, {"response": 114, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (19:12)", "body": "Happy birthday Kaff."}, {"response": 115, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (19:38)", "body": "HBTY, Lynn"}, {"response": 116, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (20:10)", "body": "Kaff and Lynn, Have an Austen filled Happy Birthday and many. many more!!!"}, {"response": 117, "author": "candace", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (20:47)", "body": "Na Na Na Na Na Na You say it's Kaff's Birthday Na Na Na Na Na Na It's Lynn's Birthday too, yeah Na Na Na Na Na Na You say it's your Birthday Na Na Na Na Na Na You're gonna have a good time Na Na Na Na Na Na You say it's your Birthday Happy Birthday too you"}, {"response": 118, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (23:46)", "body": "LOL Candy! My baby boys! ;-) Happy Birthday Lynn, hope it's a great day!"}, {"response": 119, "author": "Becks", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "Best wishes to you both!!!"}, {"response": 120, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (00:30)", "body": "Are these the boys of which you speak, Cheryl"}, {"response": 121, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (00:42)", "body": "Happy Birthday Kaffeine and Lynn!"}, {"response": 122, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (01:12)", "body": "Candace: Are these the boys of which you speak, Cheryl Yep, those are my baby boys! Thanks sweetie! ;-)"}, {"response": 123, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (01:15)", "body": "Cheryl -- are you still around? Wanna Chat?"}, {"response": 124, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:15)", "body": "Nice boys, indeed... Happy birthday, Lynn...and you, too, Kaf (again)! ;)"}, {"response": 125, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (07:49)", "body": "Happy Birthday Lynn"}, {"response": 126, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (08:33)", "body": "Thank you all for the birthday wishes. And thank you, Kaffeine, for the invitation. I may take you up on that!"}, {"response": 127, "author": "mhc", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (18:39)", "body": "Moved from Topic 225 Topic 225 entered Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (14:51) by Laura McCarthy (LauraMM) Happy Birthday Kaffeine Happy birthday to you Happy birthday to you Happy birthday to you, Kaffeine Happy birthday to you! How old are you now How old are you now How old are you now, Kaffeine How old are you now! H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y"}, {"response": 128, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (14:11)", "body": "Happy belated Birthday Lynn, and why not make today another one too! Best wishes :)"}, {"response": 129, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (09:34)", "body": "I love your kafbirth.jpg image, Amy! Great work..."}, {"response": 130, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (21:09)", "body": "Happy birthday kaf! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 124, "subject": "Emma 3 (from Mar. 1)", "response_count": 260, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (22:29)", "body": "There's a great picture of Dominic Rowan (Mr Elton) in The Making of Emma -- the caption reads: Mr Elton's over-dressed hair doesn't come naturally. Cominic Rowan suffers the indignity of . . . heated rollers. He is having makeup applied and has these rollers in his hair -- the expression on his face looks a bit dismayed!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (22:43)", "body": "Kathleen-Of course!!! WE all adore Emma and Mr KNightley and it's wonderful that we can have so many options and choices. May this classical revival and onslaught of new adaptations continue!!! I agree about P&P0 too. Making Lady Catherine sympathetic? What were they thinking??"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "I'm so pleased to see all these postings, and fully expect them to continue, ok? Don't make me come after you!! I hope to watch Emma3 again before the weekend is over, and will post any new insights..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (00:28)", "body": "\"He is having makeup applied and has these rollers in his hair\" I want to know if anyone has a picture like that of Firth! He probably had to have the same things done to him. I would love to see a pic of him with curlers in his hair and one of those technicolor hair nets on. I would ROTFLOL."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (07:05)", "body": "I'm all astonishment at such unvarnished cruelty Ann! Don't think I could keep a straight face either though.I would snort at the very least."}, {"response": 6, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (08:28)", "body": "I thought the anagram scene was very well done (BLUNDER & DIXON). So many undercurrents, and all of them played very well. Frank & Jane, Frank & Emma, Mr Knightley's suspicions, Harriet's response to Mr Knightley -- quite delightful to watch all the players (hard to know whom to watch)."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (08:44)", "body": "The more I watch Emma3, the more I like it. The characterisation of Mr Knightly and Emma are just as I always imagined them to be. And the music gets to my soul, every time I watch."}, {"response": 8, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (09:06)", "body": "And the music gets to my soul, every time I watch. Do you suppose there will be a soundtrack? Oh, happy thought indeed!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (14:53)", "body": "]The more I watch Emma3, the more I like it. ... And the music gets to my soul, every time I watch. I must now agree with this conclusion, to my complete surprise. Indeed, the more I see this the more I like, I can now watch KB without squinting. The Irish musical theme, second dance to the ball his imprinted in my mind, a little tune I kind of unknowingly sing from time to time."}, {"response": 10, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (15:23)", "body": "Here's what I found on Webwatch : The last TV adaptation of Austen\ufffds work, Pride & Prejudice, was an amazing success. Emma has been written and produced by the same team. Fans of Pride and Prejudice set up the P&P Bulletin Board - \"a discussion and support group for hopeless addicts to the 1995 adaptation of Jane Austen's Pride & Prejudice\". They\ufffdll probably do the same for Emma. http://www.meridian.tv.co.uk/webwatch/webw005.html"}, {"response": 11, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (15:32)", "body": "one from ukonline : http://web.ukonline.co.uk/Members/hugh.c/contents.htm"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "Thanks for all the wonderful pics. I despair of finding a really good one of Mark Strong as Mr. Knightley, but am by no means giving up. For now, how about this one: I just watched Emma3 again, and am happy to say I agree with those of you liking it better and better with each viewing. Indeed, I am hard pressed to find anything at all to be unhappy about. Even the parts that weren't in the book are growing on me. More observations: Mark Strong is most handsome to me (1) in the scene where he is holding his niece Emma, and he and Emma \"make up\" after their disagreement over Harriet's refusing Mr. Martin; and (2) in the scene where he and Emma are telling Mr. Woodhouse that Mr. Knightley will come to live at Hartfield. I think his handsomeness probably has something to do with the way he is looking at her -- *sigh*. I think his eyes look most large, luminous, and expressive in the scene where Emma is looking at Frank's picture and telling Mr. Knightley that Frank \"may be unable to do what he truly wishes\" and he responds, \"There is one thing a man can always do if he chooses, and that is his duty. If he truly wished it, he could be here tomorrow.\" All through these words, you could drown in those eyes! I think Frank Churchill is absolutely perfect. Although Raymond Coulthard plays him as somewhat of a snake, whatever we know or don't know about FC's character, no really scrupled individual could have taken such glee in pulling the wool over everyone's eyes and in treating Jane Fairfax so poorly in the process, particularly at Box Hill. RC reminds me of a circling shark, with that wide mouthful of shining teeth. I also love the character who played John Knightley (who is he, BTW?). His grumbling speech about having to go out on Christmas Eve causes me to laugh out loud. And when the carriage stops to pick up Mr. Elton, didn't that gentlemen's bowing and scraping behavior bring to mind Mr. Collins? And last but not least, speaking of Mr. Elton, I have always wondered why Emma did not share with anyone, particularly Mr. Knightley, his declarations and behavior in the carriage. At the ball, when Mr. Knightley asks Emma, \"Why are they your enemies?\", it seems like a perfect chance to at least tell him she'll fill him in later. I understand that decorum would dictate less than full disclosure, but no mention at all ? It doesn't make sense to me. (Forgive me if this is covered in the book, and ust tell me to shut up. I haven't read the whole thing for some time now, so I may have just forgotten.)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (17:25)", "body": "Susan -- there are several marvelous pics of Mark Strong in The Making of Emma, but I do not possess a scanner. Another scene where his eyes are beautiful and large is the \"Badly done, Emma, badly done indeed\" bit after Box Hill. Telling Mr Woodhouse about the engagement -- yes, he does look lovestruck (and more than a little lustful) there, does he not. As to Emma telling anyone about Mr Elton's proposal -- I believe Harriet was the only one informed. Some of the locals suspected he was trying for Emma, however, as Miss Bates lets slip (when Mr Elton's real engagement is announced). The Knightley brothers seem to have suspected it (John, at least, tried to warn Emma not to be so friendly/encouraging)."}, {"response": 14, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (18:27)", "body": "I am also one who loved this adaption (from the first viewing BTW). I do however have a couple of questions: 1.) \"She is someone's natural daughter\" Was this a nice way of saying that her mother and father were not married or maybe that she indeed had parents and was not an orphan? 2.) Has anyone purchased a copy yet? Is there missing scenes?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (18:53)", "body": "Susan, I think the reason Emma does not bring up Elton's proposal to Knightley is her embarassment that she had planned a match between Elton and Harriet and tried many times over to 'promote' it and Mr Knightley suspected it. If you recall, at the beginning when Emma says she will match Mr Elton in Knightley's presence. Later when Harriet rejects Mr Martin, Mr Knightley in his anger tells Emma that if Elton was the man intended on for Harriet, that Elton may talk sentimentally but act rationally..he knows the value of a good income.. Since Emma always thought she herself was in control of events around her and her circle, the confession would have shaken her grounds, (ahem..ie. I only think so...."}, {"response": 16, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (18:57)", "body": "Stop me if you've heard this one before - the strawberry party \"Perhaps not\" the brown, brown, brown thing. I like the playful almost-looks he gives to Emma to recognize that he sees her making faces at Mrs. Elton. The color thing works on the BoxHill trip, too. I really like the loss of his voice on the \"indeed\". You can sure tell he's torn up! (He looks a little like Paul Glaser -\"Starsky and Hutch\"- to me as he delivers that last line. ? Go figure!) Due to all the recent talk about receding/baldness my last couple viewings have concentrated on whether I'd like his looks so much after knowing this. (I am so shallow!) Heck, keep the hat on & we're fine! I'm thinking it's fine, anyway!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (19:40)", "body": "Candace: Someone's natural daughter, I think, means she was born out of wedlock and may or may not know who her father was. \"Natural\" in this case doesn't mean she was orphaned (or it could if her mother died in childbirth) but that she had no known father. I bought a tape of Emma3 yesterday and watched it last night. No extra scenes. The whole is only about 100 minutes long in all. But, guess what I found at the beginning? A little of either \"The making of P&P\" or \"Behind the Scenes of P&P\". It was a long ad for the P&P tapes with shots of the filming, a few words from Susie Conklin and Jennifer Ehle saying \"It's such a romantic story\" - but nothing from CF except some shots of him being filmed. My only complaint with that tape is that the sound is cracked up - especially where the music is played. I'm going to try and return it for a better copy, but I'm not sure they'll take it back. I don't think it's my VCR because everything else I play is fine."}, {"response": 18, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "The costume designer (Jenny Beavan) also did S&S2. She decided that the Highbury fashions would be more provincial, less French-inspired. (Her budget was about 1/4 what she had in S&S2.) She worked on the colors, at least for the women. For the men she tried to distinguish between the older and younger generations (Mr Woodhouse & Mr Perry both wear wigs), as well the contrast between Mr Knightley (practical, single color scheme) and Frank Churchill (more fashionable, especially the color contrast between the jacket and breeches). From a previous comment: The actor Guy Henry plays John Knightley. On British tv he has appreared in Stay Lucky, Spywatch, Rumpole of the Bailey, The Two of Us, and Family Ties."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (07:06)", "body": "Candace, if you mean significant scenes - I think one major one was the riddles Harriet was collecting for her book and Mr Elton drops a bomb of a riddle off at Emma's place..which added to the misunderstanding of Emma's - That was totally overlooked and I think would have added more force to Elton's proposal to Emma..and of course Emma's subsequent humilitation in facing Harriet. Emma was let off a little too easy at the end with Harriet's infatuation of Knightley being replaced by Mr Martin's proposal. But on the whole, it was faithful to the book, except for minor details: if Emma had been seen visiting the poor and if Knightley had informed Emma of Elton's marriage. The final celebration scene was not in the book at all - but that grows on you."}, {"response": 20, "author": "janea", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (10:45)", "body": "I\ufffdm sorry, but I\ufffdm not that fond of Emma 3. When I saw it the first time, it was a huge disappointment. Too much from the book is left out. And I don\ufffdt think that Emma develope and grow as she does in the novel. Perhaps it\ufffds just that the adaptation is too short. Imagine P&P2 if it was just 2,5 hours - it wouldn\ufffdt be the same. And I think that Emma 3 would have been much better if it had the same size as P&P2."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (13:02)", "body": "Candace; \"She is someone's natural daughter\" Was this a nice way of saying that her mother and father were not married or maybe that she indeed had parents and was not an orphan? She is undoubtedly illegitimate. As in S&S, when Col. Brandon placed Beth in the care of a family in the country, she was placed with someone to be raised. The father, or the family of the mother, would have been responsible for finding someone to raise her, and paying the expenses. It is very likely that she will never know the actual identities of her biological parents. This might seem cruel, but was considered a very generous situation, rather than being sent to one of the 'wonderful' charity insti utions of the time. The family of one or both of these parents would have to be rather well off to assume this kind of a financial burden."}, {"response": 22, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (17:52)", "body": "In Emma3 when Emma accepts Mr. Knightley's proposal he says, \"I held you in my arms when you were three weeks old\". I can't remember if it was here or on the Austen-L that someone commented that that was a very un-loverlike thing to say, but I disagree. I think it was like an outburst of feeling and emotion with the underlying meaning, \"and I thought I would never be able to hold you in my arms again--but I shall!\" I think that's romantic in a way!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (18:33)", "body": "Barbara (#22) -- I agree with you. I have watched this scene many times, and I think Mr Knightley is just so stunned that he can't think of much to say. Emma is his dearest Emma, the Emma he has loved so long. She has just told him she has always loved him as well, and that she'll marry him. He is practically speechless. He is not a \"romantic\" man in the sense of being able to sweet talk a woman. (I do not suppose he has had much \"dating\" experience at all, in fact.) His words throughout the proposal scene (both from the novel and additional) show him as he is, a plain spoken man with incredibly deep feelings. The look on Strong's face and the sound in his voice when he says, \"You do consent, then?\" are very moving. And the slow build up to the kiss is also nice ; very romantic. *sigh*"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (18:51)", "body": "Jane, I use to think that too that perhaps Kate B. could have warmed up more as Emma if the production was longer.. but many viewings later ..In 100 mins a lot can be accomplished if the scenes permitted. I'm not defending Emma3 (definitely not defacting from the Emma2 camp) but though most of the major scenes were represented, I felt the dialogues which would have endeared Emma to us was missing. eg. in the scene where Emma tells Knightley that Frank is the epitomy of manhood.. a little more bantering between the pair would have done wonders for Kate & Mark Strong. The scene where Knightley says.. anyone may know how highly I regard 'Jane' was left off too abruptly and Emma's 'sorrow' for Harriet time -over was let off to lightly and hence her character wasn't given enough depth. Even Emma's subsequent discovery that she 'loved him' was too subdued.. But this production does grow on you.. especially since there's no other to visually compare with .. till mid April. & Emma 2.. Barbara,.that sentence of Knightley's was romantic wasn't it ? ..he looked like a little puppy with his innocent gaze and .. him bounding down the stairs to look for Emma.. coming as he was, one cannot help feel sorry for him - cos he really looked like he had no chance in suceeding, ever, with his Emma. I thought a second opinion was necessary, so got hubby to watch it for the first time last night and his comment - This is nothing to P&P1, an uptight man and a bitchy woman.. I'm sure they marry at the end.. Jane Austen.. .I do apologise."}, {"response": 25, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (20:44)", "body": "Mr. Knightley's proposal he says, \"I held you in my arms when you were three weeks old\". I agree - it was very lover-like during the proposal. The line in the book, \"I have been in love with you since you were thirteen at least\" might not have sounded quite right in these days when we are all so aware of and concerned about child sexual abuse."}, {"response": 26, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (21:06)", "body": "I liked Emma's response, too, which showed her getting back into a playful mode with Mr Knightley. It seemed very real, what real people might say to each other, I mean. I really enjoy this scene. [Serena, yes, he does have a puppy dog look -- with those wonderful big eyes! But he is not a puppy, in Mrs Elton's words.]"}, {"response": 27, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "No Knighley is not, but isn't Mr. Elton a puppy, though!!! I love how she goes on about how she's a scourge on puppies. And what says Mr. E? \"Yes, Augusta.\" I do really like John here as well. I can't remember him from Emma2, but I do recall my impression from the read was he was certainly a fussy, unpleasant sort. The way he comes off here, though, strikes me as he's griping because he's expected to do so, and that the others are actually rather amused and entertained by the way he goes on. Well, at the very least, I am."}, {"response": 28, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (21:38)", "body": "re: \"in my arms when 3 wks. old\" comment I have tried to understand the criticism of this. No, it's not a lover's typical passionate comment, but I think it reflects his love for Emma. He has seen her grow; he has come to love her as she has grown through all those years. He has a deeply developed regard for her - not like Darcy's passionate feelings for Lizzy, but very tender, very true, very deep love. I agree that I don't picture Mr. Knightley's having had oodles of experience - he's been at Hartfield, for _____ sakes! When would he have had time? Maybe this is why I picture Mark Strong in this role more than that gorgeous hunk of Jeremy. I can't imagine that HE wouldn't have been pursued avidly by we-know-whom (make a list, or insert your own name here) as well as plenty of his avid contemporariees. MS' attraction isn't as a wildly goodlooking specimen, but very nice in his own way."}, {"response": 29, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "and you all know which scene I'm thinking on Susan, Johanne, Glory and fame to she who gets me a pic and, speaking of the strawberry party - I LOOOVE the \"are you fond of sheep?\" LOL!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "Another bit which I have become excessively fond of (of which I have become... I know) is the walk up BoxHill, after the blunder. Miss Bates is on Mr. Knightley's arm relating some story of an excursion she took in the past. Without her talking letting up, continuing the story, she's shown talking to Mr. Weston - Mr. Knightley's now under the tree. I believe there is even one more person shown listening to her before our attention is drawn away from her story. It's great!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (23:01)", "body": "I am really enjoying all this discussion, and agree with most of it, but Mr. Knightley as inexperienced? My mind recoils!!! He may live in Highbury, but he goes to London frequently... I think he's honest and not a flatterer, but innocent? Not my Knightley!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (00:22)", "body": "OOH Cindy! That \"gorgeous hunk of Jeremy...\" Get thee to the Northam drool topic! And I shouldn't really divulge this, but future installments of Emma: Deju-vu will deal with Mr Knightley's romantic past-before Emma."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (00:29)", "body": "Cassandra, don't make us wait long!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (02:29)", "body": "BTW, John Knightley is played by Guy Henry...and a wonderful John he was too! I've always liked John...such a crab...I watched my brand new copy of Emma3 from A&E TWICE last night, and the guy had me busting both guts...To Mr. Elton: \"Get yourself in, Man, the door shut, and the less said the better!\" A better treatment of John than Emma2, but they still didn't go far enough with it...where was his insight on Mr. Elton's intentions? Also, did you guys notice that Raymond Coulthard, who played Frank, looked amazingly like the man who played his father, Jimmy Hazeldine...the same smile, the same wavy hair...it all just looked cheesier on Frank... PS - Cass and I and some others have contributed to a page devoted to the Emma adaptations...it's still under construction, but if you want to take a look and make suggestions (or contribute your own content), it's at http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~kip/emma.html"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (02:36)", "body": "Very nicely done, Kali. You have great taste, baby."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (03:07)", "body": "Thanks, Aim...you taught me everything I know. ;)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (04:59)", "body": "Susan: . . but innocent? Not my Knightley! I did not mean that Mr Knightley is innocent, but I do believe that he is inexperienced romantically. I do not think he has been really in love except with Emma, and I suspect that he did not meet and \"date\" many women, either. One of the very attractive qualities about Mr Knightley is that he behaves to women the same way that he behaves to men. He seems to treat everyone with the respect and consideration that a gentleman should display. He lectures Emma, out of love, and he cuts Mr Elton after the latter snubs Harriet, but he tolerates Mrs Elton even when she is insufferable!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (07:32)", "body": "One of my favourite scenes is the first one of Knightly and Emma together,where quite unconsciously, She uses body language to tease him when she talks about being troublesome, and he has to quickly look to his glass of wine, or whatever. She obviously has no idea of what she is doing, but he does feel the effect. I think it perfectly sums up their relationship at this point!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (08:20)", "body": "I agree with Susan, Kathleen, and Cindy. I really love this version of Emma. I was not too thrilled with Mark Srong the first time I saw it. However, after buying the video and watching it again, I find Mark Strong to be a very attractive man. He is perfect as Knightly. I too enjoyed the look between Emma and Knightly about being alone at night. Add me to the fan club for this adaptation!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (09:38)", "body": "Ditto to all of the above. Kathleen, I do see what you mean and it's one of the things I love most about Knightley. I was also referring to other comments in my response."}, {"response": 41, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (14:24)", "body": "Caroline (resp #38): One of my favourite scenes is the first one of Knightly and Emma together . . . She uses body language to tease him when she talks about being troublesome, and he has to quickly look to his glass of wine, or whatever. She obviously has no idea of what she is doing, but he does feel the effect. I did not notice this; I shall have to go back to the beginning (if my tape will rewind that far) to check it out. I must admit that I have been concentrating on the ball, Box Hill, the proposal, and telling Mr Woodhouse about the engagement. [Note to Susan: See, you did not have to come after us; we have kept the discussion going! ;-)]"}, {"response": 42, "author": "ValGal17", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (16:37)", "body": "I have to say that I am very disappointed with Emma3. I have read the book, and seen one other version of it, the one with Gwyneth Paltrow. I think that the one with G.P. was a lot better. As a rule the book is always better than the movie, and I found no exception in either of these cases. That is one of the reasons that I love P&P2 so much. Not only was it an incredibly great movie, but it also stayed very true to the novel. I do not believe that any movie with a length of only 2.5 hours would be ble to adequatly cover any of JA's novels, that was another great thing about P&P2 - they did not try to cram it all in. It irritates me when playwrites believe that they can make a better story of it than the original autor, and end up changing the plot in the process. The Gwyneth Paltrow version (I will call it thus since I don't remember who produced it or directed it) anyways I believe that that version portrayed the unfolding of the plot much better than Emma3. They showed the development of Emma's character, and, I believe, portrayed all of the characters to more of Jane Austen's liking than Emma3. Emma3's plot did not flow at all. Things happened without giving some reason for them. There was no build up of Mr. Elton's proposal, or Mr. Knightly's love. The o ly superiority that the latter holds is the character of Mr. Woodhouse. Emma3 clearly holds with all of JA's ideas about this humorous man, as the GP version never even attempted to do. The last scene of Emma3 was very cute, but also irritated me. It's not that I do not like the idea of Emma staying good friends with Harriet after they were both married, but Jane Austen clearly stated that they would not be able to have the same aquaintace as before. This might be wrong, but that was the way society functioned then. Jane Austen's literature should not be made into to works that represent a perfect world, but the world that she came from - whatever the flaws may have been. I feel some loyalty to Jane."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (16:43)", "body": "Valerie, you are welcome to differ-and what you say about the plot-changing makes sense to me. I will only say that it might, just might, grow on you!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "One of my favorite scenes occurs when Mr. Knightly finds out the reason Frank has gone to London. \"To get his hair cut?\" I love the way he says that. I was a little surprised, however, that he would mutter things about the foolish man under his breath with the father right there. Also, after Mr. Elton proposes and Emma tells him she is not interested, he makes a sound like \"hymph\". What is that second sound he makes? It sounds like there is something stuck in his throat. One last question...How old is Mark Strong?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (17:17)", "body": "Kim: One last question...How old is Mark Strong? According to The Making of Emma, it would seem that Mr Strong is in his mid 30's. The book says, \"Knightley is meant to be 16 years older than Emma. Given that Kate looks a young 21, it was decided to go for a Knightley closer to 35 than to 40.\" Haven't found anything more definite than that, but I will continue looking."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:33)", "body": "Valerie. sounds like you should come visit in Emma2 chat, ie. the one with GP in it. Though, Caroline's hindsight hold much truth for me, Mark Strong's subtlety as Mr Knightley grows steadily on you with each viewing."}, {"response": 47, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (19:52)", "body": "There is so much here I agree with!... Valerie, it really will grow on you. I thought almost the same as you when I first saw it, but after watching it three times, I really like it. I love the way MS says that second 'indeed' at box hill. He is so disappointed and hurt - remember, he thinks there is an understanding btwn Emma and Frank, and he thinks Frank has changed her to a less-nice person. I love the way he holds Emmas' hand the next day, and looks at it, almost as if he thinks it will be for the last time. I like the anagran scene too - it was well done, all the undercurrents are apparent, and the way MS looks when Emma walks away from him - he is hurt, he thinks he's lost her. Susan, I agree with you about John Knightly - I think he's hilarious. I'm glad they did something with him in this version. I have tomorrow off---perhaps I'll have to watch it again while I sew!!!!! I glad there are others here on whom it grew, like me. And I'm glad to know there are no extra scenes - I won't buy it know, as I recorded it without commercials."}, {"response": 48, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (20:33)", "body": "Lynn Lamy: I love the way he holds Emmas' hand the next day, and looks at it, almost as if he thinks it will be for the last time. I agree, that look was heart-breaking. He wants her to know that he knows why she went to visit Miss Bates. Then he takes her hand, and he almost can't let go of it, he caresses it as if he will never be able to be this close to her again. A funny note: I noticed during the Box Hill scene that Mrs Elton was plagued with bees twice. I loved it. (It reminded me of the parrot snapping at Lucy Steele in S&S2.)"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (21:36)", "body": "Caroline and Kathleen, did you notice the look she gives Mr. Knightley as and just after she says, \"We always say what we like to one another\"? It was almost come-hither - nice touch. Poor girl never realized what she was puttng the poor man through...!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (23:34)", "body": "Yes, Kali, that was the first thing I noticed even in my first 'I-don't want-to-like-it' viewing of Emma3. Her explosive body language in that playful, taunting way made him look so uncomfortable. There were great undercurrents, much more subtle than in Emma2, which is probably why this adapation grows on you and keeps us going back looking for these 'less obvious' signs of affection between them."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (23:41)", "body": "#41 Kathleen [Note to Susan: See, you did not have to come after us; we have kept the discussion going! ;-)] And I love you all for it! There's still so much more to discuss. #47 Lynn I love the way MS says that second 'indeed' at box hill. He is so disappointed and hurt - remember, he thinks there is an understanding btwn Emma and Frank, and he thinks Frank has changed her to a less-nice person. I really love the way you describe this scene -- my feelings exactly about what Knightley is feeling. Did anyone else think that the actor portraying Mr. Woodhouse was just a tad hammy in some of the scenes? Two in particular for me were (1) when Emma wants him to play backgammon and he jumps rather affectedly when Knightley shows up, and (2) when John announces the snow at Randalls and Mr. W cowers between his daughters, saying \"Whatever shall we do?\" I've always thought this character absolutely hilarious, but felt this actor made him appear too silly for words at times. Comments?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (00:28)", "body": "On the whole, I loved the way Mr Woodhouse was seen, thought the character excellently played and very much in essence with the book. The scene at Randalls, was quite similar to the novel, he looked to Emma for comfort and Isabella, being just like him, was unable to 'sooth' him. In the backgammon scene, he did sound a little annoyed at having a late visitor: but could that be to show up how comfortable Knightley was at hartfield that he could show up long past the proper calling hour. Perhaps so?? John Knightley was simply superb.. he had me in stitches."}, {"response": 53, "author": "janea", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (04:07)", "body": "Valerie, I agree with you so much. I just couldn\ufffdt express it as well as you do. I think it was a mistake to make Emma3 just 2,5 hours. The poor girl has no chance to grow and to mature in that time. Imagine what it would have been like if it was 5 hours. But of course I\ufffdm not all negative. There are lot of things that I really like. Perhaps I just expected too much after P&P 2. One scene that I like is at the ball where Mr Knightley is saving poor Harriet after Mr Elton\ufffds bad behaviour. There is one small detail that I like so much. When Mr Knightley stands up with Harriet, there is not much left of the dance, it\ufffds almost finished. I\ufffdm not sure that I can explain this in English, but I think that it makes him even more goodhearted. It shows how important the gesture is to him. I like that very much."}, {"response": 54, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (06:14)", "body": "Jane: One scene that I like is at the ball where Mr Knightley is saving poor Harriet after Mr Elton\ufffds bad behaviour. . . . When Mr Knightley stands up with Harriet, there is not much left of the dance, it\ufffds almost finished. . . . I think that it makes him even more goodhearted. It shows how important the gesture is to him. I agree. And the fact that he lets Mr Elton know how rude Elton was without actually being rude to Elton himself -- perfect. [I just wish someone could have slapped the Eltons a couple of times. (Smack, smack!)]"}, {"response": 55, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (08:22)", "body": "Just an observation. In the ball scene during the first dance, Emma has stopped to wait for another couple to take a turn. She looks over at Mr. Knightly and gives him a little smile. He turns away and she frowns. However, just a moment later Mr. Knightly is standing next to Jane Fairfax smiling at the dancers. Did I miss something? I enjoy Mr. Knightly's \"very spritly\" when Miss Bates asks him about Frank Churchill at the dance. Susan, please keep your Emma/Knightly stories coming. Wonderful!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:38)", "body": "Did you guys notice that as they pan away from the final shot at the crown, Frank is dancing with a young woman who appears to be Harriet. A nice touch which I hadn't noticed until yesterday...it shows that Frank, despite his dubious double-dealing and selfishness re: the engagement, really is a decent person. I like that."}, {"response": 57, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (01:01)", "body": "Cassandra, re:#32 - HURRY"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (01:45)", "body": "I noticed that too Kim. He had looked away from Emma and then heard Miss Bates coming in with Jane Fairfax, the latter was looking around the dance floor ernestly for her fiance. Knightley broke into a very broad smile. Aftre the 'spritly' comment, Miss Bates observed that perhaps Frank and Emma was meant to stand up together. He smiled again, looking at the pair dancing and smiled again. It was altogether, too happy a smile for me. Or did I miss the distress??"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (13:20)", "body": "Kathleen - I agree. And the fact that he lets Mr Elton know how rude Elton was without actually being rude to Elton himself -- perfect. [I just wish someone could have slapped the Eltons a couple of times. (Smack, smack!)] Kathleen, after visiting Cyber-kisses for Colin today (just went to see if they made any changes, honest!), your post has given me and idea for a new page for Amy and gang to create as a link. It would be called Cyber-Smacks , and would have pics of Caroline Bingley, Lady Catherine, Mr. & Mrs. Elton, etc. Appropriate sayings would reply after each cyber-smack. What a refreshing way to revive oneself after a day of useless meetings! I, for one, would visit at least daily, at the very least."}, {"response": 60, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (13:55)", "body": "Mari -- Cyber-Smacks . I think that is a marvelous idea. Poor Caroline would have the stuffing knocked out of her, I fear."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (14:38)", "body": "Amy and I got into this idea on the old BB...I suggested that Slapping Miss Bingley would make a great carnival attraction, One Pound per slap, think of all the money that could be raised for the Bennet girl's dowries! Amy suggested that she should say something after each slap like, \"Insufferable!\" \"I am all astonishemnt!\" \"I am all bruised!\" Still giggle thinking of it! ;-)"}, {"response": 62, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "I was rewatching the sarvest supper scene in Emma3 today, and I have begun to enjoy it more. The Making of Emma book says that this was the way Davies chose to \"bring together all the loose plot lines and all the main characters.\" I had not previously realized that Mr Knightley seems to be announcing his engagement to Emma as he makes his toast. So, we get to hear and see the Eltons react as well as Isabella & John make their congratulations. We also get to see how weary Emma has become of Frank's foolish talk. And the looks Mr Knightley and Emma give each other, especially before they dance, are quite loving. With respect to the \"Slapping Miss Bingley\" carnival attraction, I must humbly ask you to include Mrs Elton (at least occasionally). She could call us all \"hobble-de-hoy,\" and say, \"Well, I declare!\" [insert appropriately clipped, nasal-sounding accent here.] ;-)"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "It was altogether, too happy a smile for me. Or did I miss the distress?? I didn't think that was a happy smile, more of a I-have-to-act-like-this-doesn't-bug-the-hell-out-of-me smile, and I'm going to do it if it kills me! Cyber-Smacks...What a refreshing way to revive oneself after a day of useless meetings! Has anyone applied for a patent? We also get to see how weary Emma has become of Frank's foolish talk. I love this scene. Has she got his number or what ?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "The evening John & Isabella & family arrive at Hartfield is nice for showing the relationships in that clan. Emma holding the baby, the Knightley men playing with the children, and Mr W & Isabella being upset at the rough-housing. And when Mr W complains about how they have to go to the Westons on Christmas Eve, John Knightley \"says\" more in the way he crosses his legs than a whole speech! I agree with all who like this actor -- he's a stitch."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (02:49)", "body": "Susan, thank you for pointing that out - I will be watching Emma3 yet again - just to see that \" I-have-to-act-like-this-doesn't-bug-the-hell-out-of-me smile, and I'm going to do it if it kills me!\" I doubt Jeremy used even half that many hypens in his Cosmo interview. Might as well make an entire 100 mins out of it."}, {"response": 66, "author": "janea", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (04:40)", "body": "Now I\ufffdve watched Emma3 some more times, and I do agree that it grows. At least some parts of it. When I saw it the first time, I didn\ufffdt like Mark Strong at all, I thought he was rather dull. But now I like him more and more. OK, he is no CF (noone is!) But Knightley is no Darcy either. One thing I noticed last night when I was watching Emma again is that Mrs Elton looks very much like Rowan Atkinson\ufffds Mr Bean! In the scene at the ball when she is talking about puppies, look at her mouth. It\ufffds exactly like Mr Bean. Talking about bean(s). In the book \"The making of Emma\", someone describes the problems they had with \"Little Emma\". Every time Mr Knightley and Emma were going to start their little chat, the baby started to cry. At last they gave up and MADE a baby out of beans and some cloth. So when Emma is handling over the baby to Knightley and he says that he held her like that when she was a baby, he\ufffds actually holding a bag of beans. And if you know it, you can see it. (Hope I didn\ufffdt destroy the scene to anyone, I just thought that you who haven\ufffdt read the book wanted to know. Or else I maybe end up with Caroline at the Cyber-smacks...)"}, {"response": 67, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (05:45)", "body": "Jane -- Did you notice that when Emma remembers that scene, we see Mr Knightley with a real baby (who had clearly been crying)? Too difficult to film during actual dialogue, but it works with the voice-over."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (07:10)", "body": "Can anyone explain why property was passed from Fathers to sons. And if that was the case, how did Lady Catherine end up with Rosings? Mrs Ferras end up with whatever property she lived at in London and Lady Russel have her own place??"}, {"response": 69, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (07:30)", "body": "I watched again last night, trying to pay special attention to the ball, too. I get the impression that Mr. Knightley just manages to get better control of himself to be able appreciate Emma's dancing, figure, etc. rather than concentrating that she's out there with him"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (08:44)", "body": "But Knightley is no Darcy either. No, he's infinitely superior in my lovestruck opinion!! :) :) So when Emma is handling over the baby to Knightley and he says that he held her like that when she was a baby, he's actually holding a bag of beans. Did you notice that when Emma remembers that scene, we see Mr Knightley with a real baby (who had clearly been crying)? Thanks for pointing this out. I was completely unaware and now must watch again (darn!) to see it!"}, {"response": 71, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (08:44)", "body": "Has anyone else noticed how often Mark Strong pulls at the cuffs of his shirt and coat? I must be watching this too much if I am starting to notice things like that."}, {"response": 72, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (08:47)", "body": "Has anyone else noticed how often Mark Strong pulls at the cuffs of his shirt and coat? I must be watching this too much if I am starting to notice things like that."}, {"response": 73, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (09:35)", "body": "Why property was passed from fathers to sons Under the laws of primogeniture, in the English legal system, property and titles passed, as a matter of course, from the present holder to one person. That person would normally be the oldest son. If there were no sons, then it would pass to the oldest daughter. If there were no children, to the owner's next oldest brother, then a sister and so on. The same rules apply to the inheritance of the British crown. A father writing a will would normally follow these laws of primogeniture in relation to the estate (ie the land) so as to avoid splitting it into smaller and smaller lots which would become unprofitable). That's why oldest sons were so much better off than younger sons. But he could leave amounts of money to other children, relatives, servants etc. That is probably how Georgiana came to have a fortune of her own. There were special rules relating to the money which women had inherited in their own right which they brought into a marriage. However, because divorce was virtually impossible to obtain, unless you were very rich, the money was to all intents and purposes, the husband's. Hence the desire of Col Fita (and Wickham) to marry a rich wife. It's my understanding that Lady Catherine holds Rosings because it was the property of her husband Sir Lewis. Since the property was not entailed, Anne will actually inherit full title. What Lady Catherine has is probably what is called a _life interest_. This was often used by a husband and father in his will. He wouldn't want to leave the property entirely to his wife, because if she remarried it would automatically become her husband's. But he would leave a will which would allow her to live in an off the estate for the whole of her life, and on her death the whole title to the property would pass to the inheriting child, in this case Anne. It was only in about 1850 that a law was passed in England which changed the law so that married women could own property in their own right. Until then they had been regarded (like children and the insane) as unable to exercise full legal rights. So a woman, for example, would not have been able to bring a legal case in her own name, but in the name of her husband. Does that help?"}, {"response": 74, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (09:38)", "body": "Thanks, Kate. I think some of us are a little tired of explaining this, and you did a better job than I know I could have done. HC has something on this too. It's pointed to in the FAQ here."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (09:41)", "body": "But Serena, I did not mean to put you down for asking. Certain questions are natrual: what will Lizzy call Darcy? Who told Lady C? I wonder what the really most frequently asked frequently asked questions are."}, {"response": 76, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:28)", "body": "yup, it's a bag of beans with a baby's bonnet"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (15:12)", "body": "Interesting article in this morning's New York Times about new video releases, especially the comparison of the two \"Emma\"s. March 7, 1997 Tracking Jane Austen By PETER M. NICHOLS [T] racking Jane Austen: For a year, it has been a scramble to keep track of all the Jane Austen on film and tape. Basically the problem has been that several adaptations of three of the author's six novels showed up more or less at once, beginning in late 1995. \"Persuasion,\" a film starring Susan Fleetwood, Ciaran Hinds and Amanda Root, came first. Then there was \"Sense and Sensibility,\" the film with Emma Thompson, and a month later \"Pride and Prejudice,\" the acclaimed BBC production, which was shown on A&E. All went on to create a bit of an Austen glut on home video in 1996, and now there are two more highly regarded Austens to consider: \"Emma\" and \"Emma.\" Friday, A&E released the tape of the British television \"Emma,\" shown here last month, with Kate Beckinsale in the title role. On April 15, Miramax will issue Doug McGrath's film, starring Gwyneth Paltrow and Jeremy Northam. Videophiles, left to choose between the two, might want to try both. Critics generally describe McGrath's \"Emma\" as the prettier and more lighthearted of the two treatments of Austen's story about a charming if meddlesome young woman who figures she's as qualified as anybody to arrange the love lives of her friends and acquaintances among the early-19th-century English gentry. The British version takes the same edgy approach to the material that Austen did, with Ms. Beckinsale making a plainer and tarter Emma than Ms. Paltrow's graceful character. However one prefers the story, the people who made each production choose words carefully when making comparisons. McGrath tuned in to the British \"Emma\" but didn't stick it through. \"I couldn't watch it because it was just too disconcerting,\" he said. \"It's disorienting to see something you've done yourself done by somebody else.\" He is now finishing a screenplay and developing a film biography of Jacques D'Amboise. \"I have very little curiosity remaining about dramatic ways to do 'Emma,' \" he said. The British \"Emma\" was produced by Sue Birtwistle, written by Andrew Davies and directed by Diarmuid Lawrence. \"I can see why Doug McGrath's film was so popular,\" Ms. Birtwistle said. \"I went to see it with Mark Strong, who's our Mr. Knightley, as a treat one night after filming. It's a wonderfully done light romantic comedy.\" For her, she explained, the story was something else. It has a darker strand,\" she said. Noting that in the book the question of who landed with whom had psychological connotations, she added, \"It's one of the earliest detective stories and a brilliant one.\" Ms. Birtwistle and Davies also teamed on \"Pride and Prejudice,\" which took them eight years to sell to television. \"No one thought anybody would be interested in Jane Austen,\" she said. She and Davies are making a series based on Elizabeth Gaskell's \"Wives and Daughters\" for the BBC. But theirs isn't the only \"Pride and Prejudice\" out there. The 1940 film with Greer Garson is still available, as is the 1985 BBC production with Elizabeth Garvie. In fact, there's even another \"Emma,\" a 1972 production, again from the BBC."}, {"response": 78, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (15:36)", "body": "Susan: Thanks for pointing this out. I was completely unaware and now must watch again (darn!) to see it! Oh, Susan, we are so sorry to have given you sooo much trouble. Can you ever forgive us? ;p Inko -- Thank you for the article. You have been busy reading and scanning today, haven't you? :-)"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (15:47)", "body": "Actually, Kathleen, my husband pointed out the dancing article which, BTW, has a picture of Emma2's Emma and Knightly dancing. I remembered that not everyone can get the NYTimes on line, so scanned it and found the second article. I liked what Sue Birtwistle said about Emma - I think she and I see the novel in the same light!"}, {"response": 80, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (16:00)", "body": "Thank-you Inko. Very interesting. I love Doug Mcgrath-and he's making a movie about Jacques D'Amboise. Wonderful! McGrath is like the Charlie Mcarthur/Ben Hecht of the nineties. HMM, I wonder what Strong thought seeing Jeremy as Mr Knightley. He must have a lot of confidence to watch Emma2 while they were still shooting. Maybe I'm warming up to him. Most actors would rather die than see another's actor's spin on a character, especially someone as attractive, charming and talented as JN."}, {"response": 81, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (16:03)", "body": "Inko: Actually, Kathleen, my husband pointed out the dancing article which, BTW, has a picture of Emma2's Emma and Knightly dancing. A most charming man, this husband of yours. Please express our gratitude for his kind attentions. :-)"}, {"response": 82, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Thanks Inko, as one who cannot get NYT I must rely on other kind souls. I have a feeling this person checked this site before writing his paper : http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/2484/"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (20:17)", "body": "Kathleen, already forgiven! :) Inko (and husband), thanks for sharing your finds!"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (02:14)", "body": "Thanks Kate. I was watching S&S when the beginning struck me, why Mr Dashwood was so handicapped in giving his wife and 3 girls any financial help... Didn't think of FAQ."}, {"response": 85, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (04:29)", "body": "I am in complete agreement with Susan in defending Mr. Knightley against unfavorable comparisons to Mr. Darcy. Mr. Knightley has not even the faintest pretension to improper pride....he is a man without fault...one in a hundred does not have gentleman written so plainly as Mr. Knightley...;)"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (13:16)", "body": "Kali, YOU GO, GIRL!! We cannot allow our lovely Knightley to be besmirched!"}, {"response": 87, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "Great information Inko. Can that Gaskell thing be a treat for us? I have not read it. A man without fault, Kali!? That is not possible for anyone. And I hope for Emma\ufffds sake that he has some human resemblance...And from what I hear he has been found out with grass in his hair and I know not what ;-)"}, {"response": 88, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (16:18)", "body": "Susan and Kali-May I voice my support. As much as I dearly love Mr Darcy(especially the meeting at Pemberley), there has never been a time when I did not consider Mr Knightley as infinitely the superior: rescuing Harriet at the ball, sending his carriage for Jane and the Bates, riding through the rain to see how his dearest Emma was bearing the FC news. And Ann2-you weren't, by chance, referring to my humble embellishments over at drool? Mr Knightley is sexy!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (17:31)", "body": "Attentive as he was, Mr Knightley appeared even more so, to the Bates after Jane Fairfax returned. He sent all his Donwell apples when he heard that Jane liked them, he sent the carriage (already mentioned by Cass). He obviously admired her musical talent, and thought she was the accomplished woman Emma wanted to be herself considered. His only 'regret' was that she was reserved, more so on this visit. Could it be possible that Jane may, in the couse of her visit and while secretly enganged to Frank, wo ld have compared the 2 men and found that Knightley was indeed the superior of the 2 He was always above-board, no underhand secrets, Piano surpise, which was very inconsiderate to some extent on Frnaks part. Or perhaps could Knightley have considered her as a potential companion too in the couse of the novel. Even after her engagement was known, he still felt Jane had deserved a better fate. What does everyone else think?"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (17:34)", "body": "Oops the typo.. too early on a Sunday morning.."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (20:53)", "body": "Serena, I don't think Knightley seriously considered Jane as a match for him. I think his admiration was simply that. I also fear that Jane was so smitten by Frank that she didn't even see any other males -- foolish girl!"}, {"response": 92, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (03:54)", "body": "It was a bag of beans, the way it flopped onto Mr Knightley. Very clever, I never noticed it. Susan, it's just that he never found much fault with Jane. He thought her to be a very charming young woman, with strong sensibilities, excellent temper and power of forebearance, patience , self-control. And he conversed with her always with admiration and pleasure. Except her reserve.. which could have improved on closer acquaintance. He blushed and was hard at work when this 'suspicion' was brought up with Mrs Weston and Emma. Coles too had suspected it. And Knightley was very thoughtful thoughout on e this topic began. He said he had no thought beyond (for Jane), but that's exactly what happened with Emma too, he had no thought beyond the current. Then it gradually hit him. I just thought it might be possible that all along he might have kept his options'open' not that's he's a calculating person. But at one point in the novle, there was a possibility that he could have felt for her as he did for Emma. Perhaps even the idea that Jane's 'imperfection' led him to think more highly of Emma. On Jane's part, it would have to be speculation, but being as sensible as Mr Knightley think her to be, she must have been flattered by his open concern and gallentry."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (12:12)", "body": "Cassandra, of course he is sexy! You can be proud as the inventor of this garnishment I never found it wrong for a man to have an occacional embellishment from a visit in Nature's bossom, such as mud on his boots or grass in his curls or glittering water drops in his whiskers and eye-lashes...I just point out that some might consider this a faulty behaviour. And that a man without faults would probably be very boring. I think Mr Knightley was considering the harsh conditions under which Jane Fairfax lived. Just what he told Emma in Box Hill reproach, concerning Miss Bates. And he did what he could to ease the burden. A truly noble man."}, {"response": 94, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (12:32)", "body": "Thank you ladies, for confirming my side of the argument with my husband...No matter how much I tried to explain to him that it is \"Knightly\", my husband insists that JA ment for him to be \"'Nightly\". ;-)"}, {"response": 95, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (12:36)", "body": "\"A truly noble man.\" OOH ANN! I agree 100%. Like Emma, I think Mr Knightley is the last man in the world who would trifle with a woman, play one opposite the other, and \"intentionally give any woman the idea of his feeling for her more than he really does.\" He admired Jane Fairfax, a very charming young woman, and he treated her in his characteristic kind, concerned and generous way. But, I don't think he ever once contemplated marrying her. I believe him: \"she has not the open temper which a man would wish for in a wife\". Notably, the only person he treated coldly was Frank. The man is human-passionately in love with Emma and fearful that she will be hurt. Mr Knightley boring? NEVER!!!"}, {"response": 96, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (12:58)", "body": "Mr Knightley is also very considerate of Mr Woodhouse. Although most of the Highbury folks treat Mr W kindly, Mr Knightley goes beyond the norm. In Emma3 we see that at the end of the Christmas Eve party at the Westons. Mr Knightley is helping Mr W out of the house to his carriage -- after John Knightley has frightened the poor old man. In the novel, Mr Knightley & Emma quickly consult on what needs to be done, and it gets done."}, {"response": 97, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (16:25)", "body": "insists that JA ment for him to be \"'Nightly\". ;-) I thought that was just our wishful thinking!"}, {"response": 98, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:05)", "body": "OK here is one small thing that irritated me about D's Story. Why does Elizabeth call Darcy SIR after they finally get together??? It just sounds so formal and wrong - much worse than \"Mr Darcy\" would sound. I know it may have been customary, but no where in P&P can I find that she addresses him as \"sir\" after they get engaged. There's heaps of dialogue between them and she doesn't call him anything. The use of Sir (note capital S) particularly sticks out where there has been a heap of Austen dialogu (eg pp216-218) and then some Aylmer dialogue where she immediatley \"sirs\" him. Did anyone else find this irritating?"}, {"response": 99, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (19:51)", "body": "watching Emma3 again. re: Knighley's detecting Elton's intentions to Emma in admiring the portrait of Harriet, Mrs. Weston obviously picks it up -"}, {"response": 100, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "Cindy: Elton's intentions to Emma in admiring the portrait of Harriet, Mrs. Weston obviously picks it up I agree. I think Mr Knightley picks up on it, too, or maybe he just considers Mr Elton to be going overboard in his praise for the painting. I enjoyed the inclusion of most of the dialogue from the book for this scene -- seeing each of them in character."}, {"response": 101, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "still watching & just want to say again - I LOVE Harriet!"}, {"response": 102, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (20:38)", "body": "can't wait to get my tapes! Stupid commercials!"}, {"response": 103, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "Harriet is well cast and well acted. I wish there had been more of her story, but then I want more of the entire story. That's always my biggest complaint -- it's over too soon! Agree completely about the problem w/ the commercials. (I, too, am waiting for a \"good\" tape.) I have learned exactly which commercial comes before each of the scenes I replay the most!"}, {"response": 104, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (22:25)", "body": "yes, Kathleen, and my touch on the remote is becoming quite good at lifting just as we get back to the story! Anybody know what the music is which they dance to at the Harvest dinner? I know it's the whole package, but the music is very romantic! Can't remember where the Cyber-Smacks discussion is, but I think that Mr. Knightley delivers a very good one to Elton. By the look on Elton's face as Knightley passes him, it musta' HURT! One more thing, Mrs. Weston is specifically soliticing for a partner for Harriet when she tries to get Elton to dance. So, this is why it's not improper for her to dance later even tho' she turned him down herself? She is definitely dancing the same one (with I don't know whom) that Emma and Mr. Knightley do, further down the set"}, {"response": 105, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (22:33)", "body": "Louie's a sharp one, he is, Candace...he's got you and the rest of us pegged! ;) --- People, be nice to Frank. If Jane Fairfax is to be unhappy in marriage, it's becuase she's too good for anyone! I wonder even if Mr. knightley could make someone so perfectly talented as Jane happy. Perhpas, if Frank and Emma actually had gotten together, Jane and Mr. Knightley might have ended up married. I can't vouch for the perfection of the match, but I can see Mr. knightley marrying Jane to save her from dependence...and because he is very fond of her."}, {"response": 106, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (22:41)", "body": "he is SO good!"}, {"response": 107, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (23:33)", "body": "Yes, Cindy, let me also borrow a phrase that Elinor used to describe Colonel Brandon: \"...the kindest and best of men.\" Really enjoyed all the comments above. It never ceases to amaze me how you all keep coming up with new observations. I meant to watch E3 again this weekend, but Jane Eyre kept me busy. Sometime this week maybe...."}, {"response": 108, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (23:59)", "body": "Yes Kali, I very much agree with your idea of Frank & Emma / Knightley & Jane... big IF's .. but it does feels like it could have happened somehow!! I think Jane would be less 'reserved' if she wasn't afraid of accidentially leaking on her own secret. Then Mr Knightley would be out of an excuse. She would be \"perfect'."}, {"response": 109, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (00:27)", "body": "I think Jane would be less 'reserved' if she wasn't afraid of accidentially leaking on her own secret. Then Mr Knightley would be out of an excuse. She would be \"perfect'. Very good point, Serena! She probably was afraid to open her mouth! However, could she ever have been as perfect in Mr. Knightley's eyes as his own dear Emma, faultless in spite of her faults ?"}, {"response": 110, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (00:27)", "body": "ok, here's a question, I hope I'm remembering this correctly - in the book, I believe Frank goes on about how he \"saw Miss Emma Wookhouse first in February\", but Emma3 is \"first in March\" If I'm correct about this, why the switch? 1) overemphasize how long after Christmas Eve it realy takes for hime to get aroung to visiting, or 2) March is easier to say than February thoughts?"}, {"response": 111, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (02:17)", "body": "In the book, it's February...maybe Andrew Davies just got mixed up? (Also, Cindy: \"Woo K house\"?) --- Susan, I think that's a good part of why Mr. Knighltey loves Emma so much...she needs him in a way she needs no one else...;) He's invested quite a bit of attention and care into this girl, and he'll be damned if some other blockhead reaps the fruits of his labor! I think that Jane and Mr. Knightley are in many ways too much alike...self-sufficient, circumspect, &c. ...they are almost too perfect for eachother, which takes a lot of the fun out of a relationship."}, {"response": 112, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (10:58)", "body": "(Also, Cindy:\"WooKhouse\"?) Give her a break, Kali! We all have a Harrison Ford Fetish!"}, {"response": 113, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (16:21)", "body": "Ok,so Jane's too perfect for Knightley. Let switch to Emma - couldn't Emma's dislike of Jane also stem from how highly Knightley looked upon Jane, perhpas she did believe that ..subconsciously Knightley could have fallen for Jane.. There was no idle flirtation, like between Frank/Emma , but Knightley's sincere concern for the Bates and Jane's comfort, could have added to her dislike of Jane??? Thoughts anyone.."}, {"response": 114, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (17:00)", "body": "]couldn't Emma's dislike of Jane also stem from how highly Knightley looked upon Jane I think that was part of it Emma resented people in general and Knightley in particular admiring Jane, especiaaly her accomplishments. Jane was as accomplished as Emma would have liked to be, and Emma resented it but was too lazy to do anything about it."}, {"response": 115, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (18:06)", "body": "Cindy (# 110): in the book, I believe Frank goes on about how he \"saw Miss Emma Woodhouse first in February\", but Emma3 is \"first in March\" If I'm correct about this, why the switch? I hadn't noticed this before, but you are right. I checked the screenplay, and it says February . Perhaps they decided the \"weather\" looked more like March than February when Frank first shows up. (Do you suppose they thought some viewers might watch enough to notice such a detail? :-)) P.S. I like your reasoning regarding March being easier to say -- was Frank having trouble concentrating, or what!"}, {"response": 116, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "Emma resented people in general and Knightley in particular admiring Jane, especially her accomplishments. Jane was as accomplished as Emma would have liked to be, and Emma resented it but was too lazy to do anything about it. I think you hit the nail right on the head, Anna...Mr. Knightley is of an age, temperament, and level of personal accomplishment to appreciate others for what they are...Emma is still in a phase in which remarkable people - esp.peers - are still viewed as a threat to her superiority...she'd rather fool with people such as Harriet, whom only make her look more accomplished and capable than she already is...To Mrs. Weston, Mr. Knightley says, \" How can Emma imagine she has anything to learn herself, while H rriet is presenting such a delightful inferiority?\""}, {"response": 117, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (23:16)", "body": "yes, Woo k house, indeed! I have been LOL all day long at my my stupid fingers! I have a mental picture of all these tall, hairy creatures living at Highbury! walking around roaring at each other! picking strawberries at Donwell! I am excessively diverted!"}, {"response": 118, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (00:11)", "body": "Emma resented people in general and Knightley in particular admiring Jane, especially her accomplishments. Jane was as accomplished as Emma would have liked to be, and Emma resented it but was too lazy to do anything about it. I think you hit the nail right on the head, Anna...Mr. Knightley is of an age, temperament, and level of personal accomplishment to appreciate others for what they are...Emma is still in a phase in which remarkable people - esp.peers - are still viewed as a threat to her superiority...she'd rather fool with people such as Harriet, whom only make her look more accomplished and capable than she already is...To Mrs. Weston, Mr. Knightley says, \" How can Emma imagine she has anything to learn herself, while H rriet is presenting such a delightful inferiority?\" Complete and total ditto -- 'nuff said."}, {"response": 119, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "Watched (again!) today, and of course have a few more comments. In the beginning, when Mr. Woodhouse tells Emma, \"I wish you would not make matches, for whatever you say always comes to pass,\" don't you love the \"See, I told you so!\" look that Emma gives Mr. Knightley? No wonder he despaired of ever getting her to listen to him! I also love the ray of light that comes down in the church and illuminates Harriet for Emma (aha, a match for Mr. Elton!). In the scene where Emma is telling Knightley about Harriet's refusal of Robert Martin, I hate that the camera pans away from Mr. Knightley as he says, \"You wrote her letter!\" I want to see the realization dawn on his face, darn it! I do like how Emma gets defensive here, though, and can't meet his eyes for a moment. I really love the definitive way Knightley says, \"ELTON...WON'T...DO!\" Someone else mentioned that one of the flute players at the ball looks like Guy Henry, the actor playing John Knightley, and I agree. Guy also reminds me of Hugh Laurie, but that could be because they play the same rather droll characters. For those of you who have seen Emma1, don't you love the portrayal in that production of the scene where Mrs. Elton calls Mr. Knightley Knightley? Doran Godwin's \"hhWhooooewww?\" is absolutely priceless. I can't watch any other version without missing that. OK, I think that will do until the next viewing. (I'm determined to keep this going!)"}, {"response": 120, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (05:48)", "body": "Susan -- I admire your determination exceedingly. I shall attempt to assist you in your endeavor. Agree regarding the discussion of Harriet refusing Robert Martin. Emma's first yes was very straight forward and open; when Mr Knightley repeats the question, she is already on the defensive. He is right, she knows he is right, but there is no way she will admit it. The anger is about the right level, I think, to account for how they act when the John Knightleys arrive. At the Harvest Supper, when Mr Knightley is coming to ask Emma to dance (I love MS's voice on those lines), Kate Beckinsale plays it very well. She's pleased, and happy, but she also is starting to realize that she will be the mistress of a large estate -- a person of responsibility as well as honor/prestige. The screenplay included an apology between Emma & Jane Fairfax. I would have liked to seen that included. It also included some more of Eltons' lines about Knightly moving to Hartfield."}, {"response": 121, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:06)", "body": "Found the Making of Emma today. Browsed and enjoyed it, couldn't bring myself to pay US30 for it. Saw a lovely photo of MS and KB, in between scenes, and KB was doing a dance on a bench while MS stood gazing up intently at her. Hmmmm...Mr Knightley.."}, {"response": 122, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:21)", "body": "I want this book...but I'm too poor to buy it! Just cleaned myself out on the Making of P&P2..."}, {"response": 123, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:25)", "body": "Kali, are you still awake?? 6.21am - How much is the Making of P&P2?? I might just order all these books off the internet bookstore, might be cheaper, haven't checked yet.. though."}, {"response": 124, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:29)", "body": "Hey, Serena...it's only four twenty-six here in Berkeley...I scrounged the Making Of P&P up from JA Books...$21...you can e-mail them at jabooks@aol.com...they have the Making Of Emma for the same price..."}, {"response": 125, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:30)", "body": "I've checke dwith the bookstores for The Making of ...either one. Haven't seen 'em! Bleh"}, {"response": 126, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:31)", "body": "thx, Kal (good morning! yes, I live)"}, {"response": 127, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:32)", "body": "Hi Cindy! Did you go to work yesterday? ;)"}, {"response": 128, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:34)", "body": "work? yes, and only 5 minutes late, too! did a lot of things I'll have to check today, tho'"}, {"response": 129, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:37)", "body": "Is anyone out there from Sydney, Aust. and know of a good bookstore?? I might try to buy it there this weekend when I fly in for a short holiday.. Failing which, I'll place an order with JAbooks - night-night & thank you Kali, it's going on 10pm here and that's my time-out."}, {"response": 130, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:37)", "body": "Good for you...amazing...I've been awake for 48 hours...can't sleep now, lest I snooze through my midterms today!"}, {"response": 131, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:37)", "body": "'Night, Serena...good morning, everyone else..."}, {"response": 132, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:39)", "body": "Kali! coffee? good luck on mid-terms! Is it hard to get motivated with the acceptance letter in hand?"}, {"response": 133, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:40)", "body": "Terribly hard, Cindy...I have little enough attention-span as it is! ;{"}, {"response": 134, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:43)", "body": "careful, tho' My last semester (after job in hand) I got two different grades that I had NEVER in my life seen. One was quite round, and the other not-so-round on one side."}, {"response": 135, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:46)", "body": "Oooch!"}, {"response": 136, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:47)", "body": "yeah, not cool (Kali, are we in Chat?)"}, {"response": 137, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:50)", "body": "Let's go!"}, {"response": 138, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (08:34)", "body": "Susan, how about the look between Emma and Mr. Elton when they meet during the dance?"}, {"response": 139, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (08:42)", "body": "Look? At the Crown? You mean lack of...he turns his head away from her - a mere aversion of the eyes would have been too subtle a display! Mrs. Elton, however, gives her an evil stare...right down the nose!"}, {"response": 140, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (13:40)", "body": "I was home sick yesterday and watched again for a treat! (Only my third time!) Did anyone notice this in the scene after the proposal when they are breaking the news to Mr. Woodhouse: Mr. Woodhouse says something like \"Why can't we just go on as before? We see him every day.\" and Emma replies, \"Yes, but we are alone at night.\" Check out how Mr. Knightley looks at her quickly when she says that and the look she gives him before telling her father about the foxes in the henhouse! I also thought the actor who played John Knightley reminded me very much of Hugh Laurie, especially as his character of Mr. Palmer in S&S. Does anyone know where we can suggest who we would like to receive Cyber-Smacks? It is my dearest wish to deliver one to Fanny (Ferrars) Dashwood, Lucy Steele, and Anne Elliot's sisters Mary and Elizabeth."}, {"response": 141, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (14:44)", "body": "Barbara: \"Yes, but we are alone at night.\" Check out how Mr. Knightley looks at her quickly when she says that and the look she gives him . . . \" Oh, yes, Barbara, I love that look. It makes it clear that his attraction is definitely physical as well as emotional, friendship, etc. Then, when you see his expressions while Emma is convincing Mr W -- well, Mark Strong's big brown eyes are used very well here!"}, {"response": 142, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "Kim, are you referring to the dance scene at Crown Inn when Emma / Mr Elton were in the same group of 4. At some points in the dance ,they had to go down together and he was looking arogant and haughty and she had that disgusted look whenever they were 'partners'. Then suddenly, it was Frank she was dancing with again and she would be all smiles and loveliness?? What a long question?? Well, if it that was the moment, it was very well done. Her features worked the change in emotions excellently."}, {"response": 143, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (17:03)", "body": "Yes, Serena, that is the scene I was talking about. I think Mark Strong looks particularly handsome in the scene in which he says \"anyone may know how highly I think of her\" or something like that. His hat makes him look quite dashing! I even enjoy watching him walk away after he says it. I am in bad shape!"}, {"response": 144, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (18:05)", "body": "re 129: Serena, so far as I'm aware we have no members in Sydney; I'm in Newcastle, 150k north. If you want the \"Making of P&P\" the ABC bookshops have it, there is one in the Queen Victoria Building Arcade in town. I don't know whether the \"Making of Emma\" is aroun yet as Emma3 hasn't yet been shown here. The 2 best general bookshops in Sydney are the 'Dymocks' in George St just North of Grace Bros and the big Angus and Robertson on the Mall just North of David Jones..."}, {"response": 145, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (18:52)", "body": "I finally received my commercial tape of Emma3. Now I have to retrain my \"remote thumb\"! (I automatically get set to fast forward through the commercials -- but they aren't there.) I found an extra few seconds of film: just before Mr Knightley arrives to console w/ Emma about FC's engagement, we get to see a bit more of Emma in the garden and next to the pool. Cindy -- regarding the brown-brown outfit for the strawberry picking party: did you notice the brown at the top of Mr Knightley's boots. A nice outfit all around. I really like the hats he wears -- very dashing, indeed, Kim."}, {"response": 146, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (19:19)", "body": "mmmm....that brown thing.... Kim, it's just about the same at the strawberry party (which I may have mentioned before) as in his \"anyone may notice\", but I still go for the \"perhaps not\" I think it may be that he has a little of the smile left on his face (he's just been trying to avoid looking at Emma's making faces as Mrs. E goes on Kathleen, I am absolutely GREEEEEN with envy, as my thumb is still in action! and, yup, I had noticed the boots thing. Why am I getting so excited about BROWN?! never before, I assure you"}, {"response": 147, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (19:26)", "body": "Cindy: and, yup, I had noticed the boots thing Somehow, I thought you had. You are excessively attentive to such things! Why am I getting so excited about BROWN?! never before, I assure you Brown is a very nice color on the right man, I would say, and he must just be the right man. ;-)"}, {"response": 148, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (19:39)", "body": "oooh, yeah"}, {"response": 149, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "How about Mr. Knightly when he smiles at Emma right before Frank comes up to her to talk about jane at the harvest festival? What a beautiful smile he has!"}, {"response": 150, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "Now, that one should have been shown longer!!!!!!"}, {"response": 151, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "Thanks Anna, have it all copied down and in my wallet - ready to spend some money in a good 'ole personal style bookstore. The more I watch Emma3, the more I grow addicted to it. After the Boxhill telling off, he says to her (2nd time round) Badly done INDEED - and he says 'indeed' just like he was going to cry or was really upset with her, or upset with himself for having told her off so harshly.. I cannot decide which one. But it really got me going, remote control, rewinds & fast forwards. It was so touching!!"}, {"response": 152, "author": "Becks", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "K: When you wake up tomorrow (that's if you sleep), you shall have a pleasant surprise at your doorstep!"}, {"response": 153, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (00:33)", "body": "How exciting? What is it? a gift-wrapped JN at her front door?? Sorry - so nosey huh."}, {"response": 154, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (00:39)", "body": "Serena-We are definitely on the same wavelength! Would this wrapping consist only of the flimsiest ribbin/bow?"}, {"response": 155, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (00:43)", "body": "Please, let it be my doorstep!!! Serena's!!! Oops, then he go on to yours Cass.. I'll share"}, {"response": 156, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (03:47)", "body": "You guys are so cute...but he's MINE, I tell you, MINE!!! :) Thanks, Becky...looking forward to it!"}, {"response": 157, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (03:56)", "body": "Maybe it's Mark Strong that's going to be gift wrapped and delivered instead..."}, {"response": 158, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:09)", "body": "Okay! :)"}, {"response": 159, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (05:36)", "body": "Serena: and he says 'indeed' just like he was going to cry or was really upset with her, or upset with himself for having told her off so harshly.. I can't tell which it is, either, Serena. But did you notice the tears beginning to form in his eyes? It seems that his emotions are just overwhelming him, the anger and the jealousy and the pain and being upset with himself. Nicely done, Mark, nicely done indeed. Sighhhh."}, {"response": 160, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (08:13)", "body": "I just saw the picture of the \"bald\" Mark Strong in the Drool conference. Although I like him better with his \"Knightly\" hair, he still looks very fine indeed. Would someone please send Mark Strong gift wrapped to me? I would take great pleasure in unwrapping him!"}, {"response": 161, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (12:26)", "body": "Cindy - Why am I getting so excited about BROWN?! never before, I assure you Are you going to change your favorite color over in the drool topic! Hmmm...."}, {"response": 162, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (16:19)", "body": "OHHHH the tears were building up in his eyes - yes Kathleen, I just saw it.. this adaptation does grow on me - the subtleties are INDEED overpowering."}, {"response": 163, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (18:19)", "body": "I dunno', Mari, I'll have to read it first.:) I haven't admitted what the current favorite color is to anyone here, but brown certainly couldn't be any worse! Speaking of MS' Knightley losing command of his voice - How 'bout the \"that I fe..\" in his proposal?"}, {"response": 164, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:42)", "body": "I always thought brown was a rather boring color myself, but my viewpoint has definitely changed. MS does beat a hasty exit after that \"indeed,\" doesn't he? Emma is clearly not the only one undone. And I do love the \"that I feel\" line -- definitely a man who MUST speak, whatever may be the result. I am going to be thinking about what is being delivered every time I see the UPS man now -- brown uniform, brown truck, you know!"}, {"response": 165, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:49)", "body": "oh, if only he could be the UPS man! ok, went back and read the Drool description for my favorite color BROWN yep, it's official - \"the color formerly known as boring\" TCFKAB?"}, {"response": 166, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "TCFKAB -- my vote is for!"}, {"response": 167, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (23:40)", "body": "You guys have lost it."}, {"response": 168, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (23:44)", "body": "Tell me, why do the Aussies see humor in this Emma that we Americans can't see or don't appreciate? Point out thing out and let's talk about it. I want to understand this."}, {"response": 169, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (00:05)", "body": "I appreciated the humor in Emma3, Amy...it just wasn't as cohesively hilarious as Emma2. I guess it's a comparative thing for us. Lucy Robinson's Mrs. Elton was especially funny...I liked the little face she makes after Mr. Knightley tells her off at Donwell. Another touch I liked occurred during the scene at Hartfield where everyone is admiring Emma's painting...talk has dwindled and everyone seems to have finished waxing poetic on the picture, so the servant holding the candelabra moves away, behind the easel...then Mr. Elton pipes up again with more praise, and so the servant shlumps back around in a complete circle, back around the easel, with what I detected to be an air of annoyance..."}, {"response": 170, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (00:12)", "body": "Kali, that face IS perfect! (Mrs. E's, I mean) & what about \"do you like sheep , then?\""}, {"response": 171, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (00:26)", "body": "Yes, that was priceless... \"You know I fancy myself quite the shepherdess!\" \"So do you like sheep,then, Mrs. Elton?\" - straight face from Miss Bates."}, {"response": 172, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (15:21)", "body": "Your imagination is out of control, ladies.......if I had a gift wrapped JN, I would consider keeping him!"}, {"response": 173, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (15:27)", "body": "Was anyone besides me a little disappointed when the camera pulled so far away after the start of the kiss between Emma and Mr. Knightly?"}, {"response": 174, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (16:11)", "body": "Yep!"}, {"response": 175, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (03:02)", "body": "They looked kind of weird from a distance...like their bodies were contorted and they weren't having much fun...but then again, who wants the camera so close that the man's nose becomes buried in her cheek?"}, {"response": 176, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (04:27)", "body": ""}, {"response": 177, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (09:30)", "body": "Was anyone besides me a little disappointed when the camera pulled so far away after the start of the kiss between Emma and Mr. Knightly? Exceedingly so! Their kiss was so gentle, so sweet, so tentative -- they both still felt a little strange about having discovered this change in their love for one another, and having found that they both shared it! To then have the camera pull so far away that I had to get up and stand directly in front of my TV screen and contort my head from one side to the other trying to find the right angle and figure out who was doing what to whom, kinda spoiled the mood. Very vexing, indeed! I think there's a lot of humor in this version, and it makes me outright laugh and also break into AG's at regular intervals. Emma is a very humorous book, but I think the humor of that period is much more understated than what we are used to now, because everything in that time was just more restrained. My VHO."}, {"response": 178, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (14:56)", "body": "I am glad to know that someone else got up in front of her television in order to see the kiss better. At first it was hard to tell exactly what they were doing. Oh well, we cannot have everything. Another \"look\" of Mark Strong I enjoy is after Emma tells him not to commit himself, take a little time. He looks down and keeps looking down in such a disappointed way."}, {"response": 179, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "He looks down and keeps looking down in such a disappointed way. Kim, does your heart not break for him in that scene? And then the surprise and joy in his face after she tells him she loves him. His, \"Then you do consent?\" is so sweetly vulnerable!"}, {"response": 180, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:16)", "body": "There is that vulnerable stuff again. I like it, too, Susan, but darn it, it still bugs me that I do."}, {"response": 181, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:20)", "body": "Why's that, Amy? Are you an Emma2 fan?"}, {"response": 182, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:26)", "body": "Oh, we went through this a while back. I feel uncomfortable liking that we like the vulnerability in the Austen heros. Everybody tried to convince me that vulnerable is okay in a safe relationship. I guess it didn't stick."}, {"response": 183, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:59)", "body": "So it's not just a Knightley thing, huh?"}, {"response": 184, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (17:58)", "body": "And what's wrong with being an Emma2 fan?!!! (Gloria Upson voice)"}, {"response": 185, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "Here I go again! How about when Mr.Knightly is eating his strawberries? He looks darling!"}, {"response": 186, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (19:28)", "body": "Susan, I am trying to follow your order about keeping this going. I can keep 'em coming as long as you want! Kalli, I recently saw The Net for a second time. I had not realized who he was the first time I saw it many months ago. He was a baddie in that one was he not? I have only seen Emma 2 once in the theatre and an anxious to see it again on video."}, {"response": 187, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (21:31)", "body": "He was ineed...an incredibly cute psychobastard, no? --- On another note, I can't even look at a strawberry without thinking of Mrs. Elton...and shepardesses...and caro Elton...and all that is \"simple and natural\" (Lucy Robinson voice)..."}, {"response": 188, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:00)", "body": "Kim, you are entirely too good to me, and Kathleen -- well, you are both the dearest of the dear! I have more observations (do I really need to tell you that I've watched it yet again?). Some of these I just keep forgetting to mention: In the opening scene, I love Knightley's half-smile when he says, \"Perhaps!\" to Emma's \"Especially when one of them is a troublesome creature.\" Then his look of entreaty to Mr. Woodhouse when Emma says she needs to find someone for Mr. Elton clearly says, \"Help me reason with this woman!\" I think MS is at his most handsome during John and Isabella's visit when he is alternately playing with his nieces and nephews and making eyes at Emma, then coming over to her and actually making up. His looks at her during this scene -- every woman should be looked at this way at least once in her life (and yes, I have been!). When the party is dining at Hartfield, Jane makes the following comment in response to Mrs. Elton, who mistakenly thinks Jane has spoken of the slave trade: \"No, No, the governess trade is all I had in view. A difference as to the guilt of those who carry it on, but as to the misery of its victims, I'm not sure where it lies.\" And all of this is said while sitting next to Mrs. Weston, a former governess! At the ball, when Mrs. Weston is trying to get Mr. Elton to dance with Harriet, Mr. Elton's \"I did not notice Miss Smith\" has an extra meaning: She is such an inferior person that I simply was not aware she was even there. At Donwell, when Mr. Knightley says that the only woman who will invite guests to Donwell is Mrs. Knightley, as the camera pans to Emma and she is laughing, Harriet next to her is demurely looking down and appears to possibly already be imagining that she might be that person (this is after the ball, remember). At Box Hill, as Miss Bates is making her \"three things\" comment, Mr. Knightley is smiling behind her where she cannot see, obviously able to see the truth of her statement, but when Emma makes her biting rejoinder, he looks quickly and unbelievingly at Emma, then his attention is entirely focused on Miss Bates and her pain. He then again looks at Emma with real reproach, but quickly back at Miss Bates. His so-evident concern for Miss Bates's feelings really touches my heart. I would not even mention this last to anyone other than you fellow addicts, but I love, during the proposal scene, the way the \"cape\" of Mr. Knightley's coat touches the ruffles on Emma's dress as he walks past her (this is just after she says that Frank has imposed on, but not injured her, and just before Knightley rails at how fortunate Frank is). For some reason, this seems really intimate to me; I guess because they are comfortable being that physically close to each other in a time when physical dis ance was both required and expected. I must admit that, with every viewing, MS becomes more and more \"my\" Knightley. I am unable to find any fault with his performance -- is this the true mark of an obsessive or what? KB won me over at once, but MS steadily makes me appreciate his performance. \"Tell me then -- have I no chance of succeeding?\" They even look like MS and KB!!"}, {"response": 189, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:38)", "body": "Susan, have you ever noticed the look Emma throws at Mr. Knightly after he says that she has made Harriet too tall in her portrait? She seems more irritated with him for that remark than when Mrs. Weston said she has not those eyebrows. Also, I was a little surprised that Mr. Knightly would rem ark on Frank being the silly fellow he thought he would be in front of his father and Mrs. Weston. They do not seem offended by his words, more amused than anything. I love Mr. Woodhouse's comment about catching cold if he gets his hair cut too short. I have not noticed the cape/ruffle thing as many times as I have watched it. Oh, boy, now I have a legimate excuse to watch it again. I cannot believe I did not think Mark Strong was handsome the first time I saw this. He is very handsome and sexy...and that voice. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh."}, {"response": 190, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:40)", "body": "\"he was indeed...an incredibly cute psychobastard, no? MAis oui! Absolument! MOnsieur JACk Devlin-tres sexy et son voix!!! And you know-he wasn't a bad Mr KNightley either. In fact, for some of us JN is MR KNIGHTLEY!!!"}, {"response": 191, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:58)", "body": "Kim, you are an angel! have you ever noticed the look Emma throws at Mr. Knightly after he says that she has made Harriet too tall in her portrait? Yes, I have. He is the only one not falling all over her work and she resents it. Plus, I think she wants his approbation more than she realizes, and it pains her when she doesn't get it. Also, I was a little surprised that Mr. Knightly would rem ark on Frank being the silly fellow he thought he would be in front of his father and Mrs. Weston. Mrs. Weston even smiles and laughs after he has left! Yes, I thought it was singularly odd. I cannot believe I did not think Mark Strong was handsome the first time I saw this. He is very handsome and sexy...and that voice. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. Total dittos! I feel exactly the same way!! Cindy, B est R aiment O on W onderful (K)N ightley! Do come up with something better if you can! And Cassandra and Kali, although I love you both dearly, we are going to have to agree that Mr. Knightley himself is JA's best male character, even though we disagree on who portrays him best. This is the Emma3 thread, after all!"}, {"response": 192, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (06:14)", "body": "This is sad business, here I am on holidays on the most perfect beach in the world..(no not true..not the most beautiful) eh.. Bondi Beach and all I can think off is where I can hook up my computer to see whatI'm missing out on in this topic... Yes, Cass.. JN is Mr Knightley well and truely. There are posters in video shops now promoting the pending video release.. I'm so excited.. will tune in again"}, {"response": 193, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (11:51)", "body": "]There is that vulnerable stuff again. I like it, too, Susan, but darn it, it still bugs me that I do. you're at least aware of this, would'nt it be dull not to have dragons to slay?"}, {"response": 194, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (13:28)", "body": "Wonderful, wonderful -- I too have been absent for a few days, and it nice to have all these wonderful observations. Susan: I shall have to look at the proposal scene again (!) to check on the cape/ruffles contact, but I did notice how Emma looks at Mr Knightley as he walks past her. In the book, she has to discuss her \"behavior\" wrt Frank 2 or 3 times before Mr Knightley speaks, and she is afraid he will not forgive her. I think KB captures the uncertainty here very well. And I love the BROWN acronym, Susan -- how very creative. The scene w/ the nieces and nephews really presents this set of adults well. We see Emma and Mr Knightley slowly get back to friendship, and we get the interrelationships among this extended family. I also like the looks Emma and Mr Knightley exchange as Mr Woodhouse is exclaiming about the Christmas Eve visit to be paid to the Westons. A well-played instance of nonverbal communication. [Need to catch up on other topics -- more later!]"}, {"response": 195, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:15)", "body": "The other day in the chat room I told Susan that I thought her two Emma/Knightly stories were much better than the two sequels I had read. In those two, Mr. Knightly did not come off as a very passionate man until the end of the books. Emma was \"happy\" but not really \"happy\" until the ends, also. I have always thought they would have apassionate relationship from the start. Mr. Knightly would understand Emma's innocence and be very gentle, but I do not think for a minute that he would not be passionate. ny comments? Have you noticed at the Christmas scene at the Weston's when Mr. Weston is explaining to Mr. Elton about Frank, Mr. E is very busy \" guzzling\" his wine, and has to make an effort to stop and pay attention to Mr. W.? See, ladies, I do notice things in Emma other than Mark Strong! Although it can sometimes be difficult."}, {"response": 196, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:27)", "body": "Kim -- yes, indeed, and Mr E keeps drinking (too much, I suspect). After Emma asks him if he does not agree that FC is very handsome, Mr E says something about \"appearances can be deceiving\" (!), and then he get another glass of wine (at least his third at this point). No wonder he can't take NO for an answer."}, {"response": 197, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:53)", "body": "Does anyone like Mr. Eltons voice or is it just me."}, {"response": 198, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (15:00)", "body": "Donna, I like his voice, too."}, {"response": 199, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (15:05)", "body": "All of the wine makes Mr. Elton bold even at dinner. Check out the \"look\" he gives Emma at the table just before they go into look at Frank's portrait. Rather risque for a cleryman."}, {"response": 200, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (17:50)", "body": "Kim: . . . Mr. Elton bold even at dinner. Check out the \"look\" he gives Emma at the table just before they go into look at Frank's portrait. He does it again when he rejoins Emma in front of the portrait. (Right after Mr Knightley says \"not at all. He is a person I never think of from one month's end to another.\" I love the enunciation of naw-ta-tall.) But Kim, even clergymen were afflicted with weaknesses of the flesh (and of the pocketbook, I suppose). ;-p"}, {"response": 201, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "I knew there was something else I wanted to discuss (what a surpirse ;-)) -- the vulnerability issue. Amy, I am not trying to convince you of anything, just thinking out loud, sort of. The proposal scene is very well done. MS and KB each have a lot of emotions to register, and on the whole I think they do a good job. I like the \"Then you do consent?\" line, with the uncertainty in his voice, but not just because of the vulnerability. It is more because we know that Mr Knightley is going to soon be incredibly happy. It would be a tragic scene otherwise. There are all sorts of ironies to this scene. Mr Knightley had said that wished he could see Emma in love and in doubt of a return -- well, he does, but he doesn't know it. And he is in the same situation. Emma shuts him off because she is afraid he will tell her he's in love with Harriet, then asks him to continue because she wants to be a good friend, then finds out she's the woman he loves. Anyway, the scene unfolds very nicely in Emma3, and manages to use a lot of JA's own dialogue. And, I rather like them not walking during most of the scene, especially since it allows them to look at one another (which is different from the book)."}, {"response": 202, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (22:22)", "body": "kathleen sed: \"Then you do consent?\" line, with the uncertainty in his voice, but not just because of the vulnerability. It is more because we know that Mr Knightley is going to soon be incredibly happy. It would be a tragic scene otherwise. ___ It's okay, Kathleen, you can try to convince me vulnerability is okay. I know it is somewhere way down under the shell. I see what you mean about Mr. Knightley. It is romantic to think he is hesitant to ask because it shows how much he cares about the answer. Ahhhh..."}, {"response": 203, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "I agree Amy. It's no wonder he is so vulnerable here--think of the huge risk he is taking! Here is this woman he adores, who is the centre of his world, who he has already loved for a long time. If she rejects him, not only will he not have her, but he will really not have the right to the intimacy they used to share just as friends. He is nervous because he really had no intention of proposing to her that day, only to find out if she was really crushed by the news about Frank, and to try and figure out if there was any hope for him. I love how we hear him trying to talk himself into not letting his courage fail him, \"No, I have gone too far for concealment...\" It is so touching when Emma tells him to take a moment to consider before he commits himself, and he thinks she knows he is about to propose--he has no idea she is thinking of Harriet. This is probably the only time in his life that Mr. Knightley has been so unsure of what to say or do. I think MS did a beautiful job of acting this!"}, {"response": 204, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (08:29)", "body": "Most of us probably already knew Mr. Knightly and Emma would end up together before we saw this Emma. However, if you had not known, what would have been your first clue?"}, {"response": 205, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (08:52)", "body": "Kim, I remember a little bit about how the truth was revealed to me the first time I read it. I did not tumble until after I realized that if Emma was not to end up with Frank, who, who had already been introduced in the story, was left? Really. I was fooled until then, I do believe."}, {"response": 206, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (14:58)", "body": "Kim -- I first read Emma when I was 19 or 20, and I did not figure it out until Emma realized that she loved Mr Knightley. Even then, I wasn't completely certain that he loved her. The proposal was somewhat surprising to me -- partly because we are in Emma's mind for most of it, I suppose. In Emma3 I think it is somewhat the same, although as you say, we know going in that they end up together. Unlike other novels with romantic stories, however, the \"chase\" is not the story."}, {"response": 207, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (15:05)", "body": "Amy: It is romantic to think he is hesitant to ask because it shows how much he cares about the answer. Ahhhh... That sums it up pretty well, I would say, Amy. We want the hero and heroine to love each other intensely, and we don't want to feel that either of them is settling or marrying for convenience. I enjoy the manner in which Emma3 brings out the various levels/layers of the relationship between Emma & Mr Knightley. We see them as old friends, as being related through John & Isabella, as sharing responsibility for Mr Woodhouse (and later, Miss Bates). Then, we see that they love each other emotionally and physically. It's done in a very convincing way."}, {"response": 208, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (18:55)", "body": "Kathleen, the loving each other physically is so obvious in the look they give each other when Emma says \"we are alone at night.\" As you said earlier, JA would not have included that in her novel, but I thought it was a nice touch. Emma looks away first, but Mr, Knightly continues to look a little longer.Ahhhhhh!"}, {"response": 209, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (18:57)", "body": "As for knowing when they would get together, I saw Emma 1 before I read the book, and I was shocked when Mr. Knightly professed his love.So when I read the book, I already knew the outcome."}, {"response": 210, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (22:29)", "body": "I only saw Emma2, and my first clue, although I already knew it from watching \"Clueless\" was at the ball, after knightly dances with Harriet, and Emma asks him to dance with her, and reminds him: \"We're not a brother and sister, you know, and goes to the ballroom, he stays outside for a few seconds and says: \"No, certainly not\""}, {"response": 211, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (01:10)", "body": "Dearest Susan, this is the Emma3 thread, but as I am an amphibious Emma adaptation fan, I retain the right to digress from time to time. This is a DISCUSSION group after all, and not the Cultural Revolution central office! (Smile!) In addition, it seems that everyone is so enamored of Mark Strong that they ignore my postings on other, very pertinent Emma3 subjects and become aroused only when I write the words \"Jeremy Knightley\" or post his picture...;)"}, {"response": 212, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (01:34)", "body": "Oh, dearest Kali, thanks for my morning laughter. Now I shall go happily to my labour. How are the coins coming along?"}, {"response": 213, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (02:50)", "body": "Hiya, Ann! Glad I'm entertaining somebody out there...;) Coins coming along well...Got one with Faustina on it today...;)"}, {"response": 214, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (05:28)", "body": "Kali: they ignore my postings on other, very pertinent Emma3 subjects and become aroused only when I write the words \"Jeremy Knightley\" or post his picture...;) Kali -- I am sooo sorry. :-) I did not know you were feeling ignored. Let's see, one of the Emma3 subjects you mentioned was the Mrs Elton strawberry picking scene. In the screenplay, after the \"Are you fond of sheep, then\" remark by Miss Bates, the conversation covers the rest of the dialogue from the book -- about nothing better, red currants superior, intolerable heat, etc. I wish that had stayed in the film. Please, don't wait so long next time before asking for our assistance in discussing Emma3 -- that's what friends for, after all."}, {"response": 215, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (08:37)", "body": "For Kali: I watched Carrington recently, and I thought JN played one of Emma Thompson's lovers. The one that said he did not like her very much. Was that him? To me, Mark Strong is the perfect Mr. Knightly. I cannot help it; he does it for me. Especially in his hats!"}, {"response": 216, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (16:43)", "body": "Kim: To me, Mark Strong is the perfect Mr. Knightly. I cannot help it; he does it for me. Especially in his hats! I too love the hats. I like them so much better than the more formal hats most of the men wore in P&P2. I also like Mr Knightley's coats -- the fancy jackets (at the ball and one dinner party?) have a velvet collar, and the overcoat has the cape (in the proposal scene). Very nice wardrobe, yet not overly fancy-schmancy!"}, {"response": 217, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:22)", "body": "I know what you mean, Kathleen about the hats in P&P. I did not like the one Darcy is wearing during the second propasal. I t seemed to smash his face down, if you know what I mean. I really like the cape on Mr.Knightly\"s coat. It reminds me of my husband's duster."}, {"response": 218, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:56)", "body": "Thanks, guys...but I was half-joking with you...yes, Kathleen...I did like the progressively negative strawberry comments in the novel... Yes, Kim...JN was in Carrington...they did it on a boat against the drawers..."}, {"response": 219, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "I think the costumes were a big help in showing the characters being played. There is a great pic in \"The Making of Emma\" which shows the leading men in costume for the harvest supper (I think). Frank Churchill, Robert Martin, Mr Knightley, Mr Weston, Mr Elton, and Mr John Knightley. It is a beautiful picture (if you ignore the styrofoam coffee cups), which shows how much the difference in clothes can tell us about the character. Mr Elton & Mr John Knightley are the only two not in boots, which I had not noticed in the movie. (I guess I will just have to watch again.) ;-)"}, {"response": 220, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (18:24)", "body": "Because they fancy themselves cosmopolitan? ;)"}, {"response": 221, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "Kali, I will grant you that JN has a nice body. I got to see quite a bit of it \"against the drawers \". Emma Thompson is a lucky girl. Love scenes with JN and Rufus Sewell in the same movie."}, {"response": 222, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (19:27)", "body": "Mr. Elton's black clergyman clothes looked much better on him than Mr. Collins' did on him."}, {"response": 223, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (21:08)", "body": "Question: What happens to Harriet at the end of the Box Hill picnic? She came w/ Emma, and she & Frank are headed down the hill toward the Woodhouse carriage. But when Mr Knightley helps Emma into the carriage there is no Harriet to be seen. (I bet the filmmakers thought I wouldn't notice!) I agree that Mr Elton looks better in black than Mr Collins -- but then Mr C looked silly, regardless of the clothes. Possibly Mr Elton & Mr John Knightley were trying for a more cosmopolitan look. Mr Weston, Mr Knightley and certainly Mr Robert Martin were country folk. But that doesn't explain Frank Churchill's boots -- maybe they were fashionable for someone in his position (or maybe Enscombe was considered \"country\" as well)."}, {"response": 224, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "Boots = farming or riding?"}, {"response": 225, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (21:57)", "body": "Good point, Amy. But these boots were worn at the Harvest supper -- so, would riding boots make sense here? And Mr Knightley certainly did not have to ride to Donwell Abbey. But, all the boots I saw seemed to be very nice boots, even though not so dressy as Darcy & Bingley seemed to wear most of the time in P&P2."}, {"response": 226, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (22:09)", "body": "Boots = farming or riding lifestyle?"}, {"response": 227, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (22:55)", "body": "Boots=strong calves shown to best advantage!!!!!!"}, {"response": 228, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (23:19)", "body": "What a nice surprise to check in after two days and find so many wonderful messages! Where to begin? Mr. Knightly would understand Emma's innocence and be very gentle, but I do not think for a minute that he would not be passionate. Kim, yes, I have never for an instant doubted Mr. Knightley's passion, but then you already knew that, didn't you? #'s 201 and 203, Kathleen and Barbara -- beautiful interpretations of the proposal scene, with which ITA! #206, Kathleen -- When I first read the book I also didn't have a clue about Emma's feelings for Knightley until she finally realized them, and then I was very surprised later to find that he shared them. Kim, the first time I thought it really showed in Emma3 was in the scene where John and Isabella are visiting, and Emma and Knightley cannot bear to be at odds. Those looks! To me, Mark Strong is the perfect Mr. Knightly. I cannot help it; he does it for me. Especially in his hats! What you said, Kim! Kathleen, re #223 -- Good point regarding what happens to Harriet at Box Hill. I have always assumed that she eventually comes and gets in the carriage with Emma as she did in both other versions, but they do leave us hanging in this one, don't they? Dearest Kali, for dearest you will always be -- your posts are most welcome and eagerly received, even if you are fixated on that JN fellow! My point was that we shall never convince one another to change our point of view on who best portrays our most wonderful Mr. Knightley, but this in no way inhibits discussion, as Cass and I have discovered in chat. It places no limits whatsoever on general Knightley drooling! ( Even if MS is infinitely superior! )"}, {"response": 229, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (23:53)", "body": "Kali re: #211 ...and become aroused only when I write the words \"Jeremy Knightley\" or post his picture...;) Just one comment on this - No Kidding! ;)"}, {"response": 230, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (00:41)", "body": "Snort, Cindy! I love you too, Susan...! ;) --- I read somewhere that early 19th century menswear was styled after riding clothes, even for guys who didn't ride much. As for Frank, he DOES ride quite a bit...remember his black mare, which Mrs. Weston always fears will toss Frank on his head?"}, {"response": 231, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (08:32)", "body": "Kathleen, if I remember correctly from the book, Harriet is supposed to be in the carriage with Emma for the ride from Box Hill. I believe she is in the carriage in Emma 1 and Emma 2. Susan, I was wondering what had happened to you. What new Mark Strong item can we discuss now? I fear I may have watched this production too much. I actually caught myself saying, \"Badly Done\" the other day."}, {"response": 232, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (12:36)", "body": "What new Mark Strong item can we discuss now? Did you notice that he has eyes when he is kissing Emma? Why do guys get these long eyelashes? I wonder if he had to use any eye make-up. Does anyone know? I doubt it very much."}, {"response": 233, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (12:37)", "body": "DTBT- Did you notice his eyes when kissing Emma?"}, {"response": 234, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (17:17)", "body": "LOL Donna. I wondered what you meant about him \"having\" eyes. I must admit I have not really noticed them while he is kissing. I will watch again to see. I have noticed his eyes in other scenes. They are beautiful, are they not?"}, {"response": 235, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (18:42)", "body": "Mark Strong's eyes are quite \"to lose oneself in\" I'd say. And his eyebrows are impressive as well -- I like the way they frame his eyes when KB/Emma tells him not to speak."}, {"response": 236, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (19:23)", "body": "I agree Kathleen. I love his eyes and his voice. I cannot tell about his body though. He is always covered up too much. However, I am sure it is as fine as the rest of him. As for his hair, it sometimes looks quite flat in some scenes and \"puffier\" in others."}, {"response": 237, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (19:30)", "body": "Yes, Kim, the \"hair\" is occasionally a problem. What with the different takes, and editing of the film, you get different looks to the hair -- it even seems to be darker in some scenes and more reddish/brown in others. (Or do you suppose they had more than one hairpiece for him?) Have we discussed his hands, yet? You can see them in the anagram scene, and they seem very nice. Obsessions can be fun, especially when they're shared! ;-p"}, {"response": 238, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "Kathleen, I noticed his nice hands in the dream of Emma's in which he is placing the ring on Jane's finger. Was he really wearing a hairpiece? I thought he might have just grown it long for Emma. I know he does not have much to speak of. I am happy to know there are other Mark Strong obsessed pe ople out there. At first I thought I was the only one, so I kept my mouth shut However after finding this thread I am able to let it all hang out."}, {"response": 239, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (20:02)", "body": "Kim -- thank you for reminding me of the Jane/wedding fantasy. I knew there was another scene showing his hands, but I couldn't remember where. Re: the hair. The pictures of MS show too much of a receding hairline for him to be able to grow. Also, in the video interview with him at the A&E site ( http://www.aetv.com/scenes/emma/emma3.html#strong ) the interviewer starts with a comment about the hair. (My computer couldn't play the video very well, and the sound was a bit fuzzy, but it was nice to hear that voice.)"}, {"response": 240, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (21:41)", "body": "and yet another viewing - this time without commercials! Hooray! More notes taken - some for the first time, others just a further appreciation: - I noticed Elton's line-of-sight as the discussion of Harriet's absence at the Christmas Eve dinner wound down - straight down Emma's dress!!!! - I love Jane's adoration of Frank as she rounds him during the dance! - (my beloved strawberry party!) Mrs. Elton's appreciation of how natural they all are \"no form or parade\" but she wishes they could have come on a donkey with her caro sposo walking alongside (kinda' sounding more like a parade!) - Jane's eyes telling Frank to \"shut up\" after he says that she's a complete angel Ok, now a question: Mrs. Weston, married lady that she is, doesn't have her head covered at the harvest dinner. After I noticed this, it seemed like there were other times, too. Wha?"}, {"response": 241, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "Cindy -- I noticed that bare headed look for Mrs Weston, too. Maybe she gets dispensation because she's a newlywed? But what about Mrs Elton then? Oh, the confusion! Cindy, Susan, Kim, and other Mark Strong appreciators -- check out the new MS drool topic that Amy added for us."}, {"response": 242, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (22:19)", "body": "RE: MS drool Bless you, Amy!"}, {"response": 243, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (23:42)", "body": "Amy, were we getting a little too daggy over here for you?!! ;-)"}, {"response": 244, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (00:04)", "body": "] Amy, were we getting a little too daggy over here for you?!! ;-) __ No, Susan. It was tame. It just occurred to me that with several posts in a row about admiring different parts of his physical self, it sounded like drool to me."}, {"response": 245, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (08:24)", "body": "I apologize if I became too enamoured of Mark Strong's physical attributes here. I will try to contain myself."}, {"response": 246, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (12:57)", "body": "No, no. Kim, everybody, please don't misunderstand me. I was only filing, not judging."}, {"response": 247, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "Kim -- no need to apologize or contain yourself! What will the rest of us do if we lose our BROWN fan. We can discuss Mr Strong in two topics now -- what fun!"}, {"response": 248, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (14:06)", "body": "Meggin - Boots=strong calves shown to best advantage!!!!!! Yes! Yes! Ladies all; have been too busy to visit the past few days, and your industry has suprised and pleased me more than I can say. Kim and Kathleen - Go Brown Go! Rah! ;-)"}, {"response": 249, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (15:53)", "body": "A question for those of you who own the Making of Emma book: Does anyone know if any other actor was ever considered for the role of Knightley in this production or any other actress for the role of Emma? I love KB and MS, but I was just wondering? It seems to me I read that CF was always the one that Sue Birtwistle had in mind for P&P2--maybe she felt the same about MS?"}, {"response": 250, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (19:04)", "body": "I didn't see anything specifically how the casting was done. But it appears that they cast Kate Beckinsale first, then found MS for Mr Knightley. They wanted the two leads to appear to be about 16 years apart in age. Raymond Coulthard makes an interesting comment. He said that he was early for his meeting with the casting director (Janey Fothergill). He didn't know the novel so he bought a copy of York Notes (sounds similar to the Cliff's Notes we U.S. college grads know), to get a quick idea of the characters. He decided he would be most interested in the FC part and of course that's what he got."}, {"response": 251, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (21:12)", "body": "That sounds like a very Frank thing to do..."}, {"response": 252, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (21:26)", "body": "KB is quoted at the Meridian site on the subject of headwear...she and the costume designer apparently decided that hats, rather than bonnets, would fit Emma's character best...boy, did they take that conversation to heart! Emma is never caught outside without a hat (except during the proposal scene at Hartfield). To be perfectly honest, I thought most of the hats quite dreadful...the big, maroon, puffy frump with the feathers is particularly menacing in an old-maidy sort of way. The general effect was that of a young woman aspiring to battle-axedom before her time, which doesn't suit the youthfully-exuberant Emma (no matter how much she protests about the whole marriage thing). I did like the wide-brimmed straw hat she wears at Donwell (that dress wasn't bad either...), however. In contrast, Gwyneth Paltrow rarely wears anything on her head...the emphasis is on her cute hairdos, bright clothes, and sunny personality...in fact, the only characters in Emma2 who are religious about head coverings are Mrs. and Miss Bates...the old lady and the old maid."}, {"response": 253, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (21:39)", "body": "I believe it would have been considered very proper to wear a hat or bonnet outdoors -- for everyone, not just old women. After all, a \"lady\" was not supposed to get a tan (or freckles, like Miss King in P&P). I quite liked the hats KB wore as Emma; I thought they expressed different aspects of her personality and fashion sense very well. KB also mentions the trouble she and Samantha Morton (Harriet) had in some scenes where they were both wearing hats with wide brims. It created problems with a close-up of the two of them. (Another scene where KB is outside w/o a hat is when she & Harriet are discussing Mr Martin's proposal.)"}, {"response": 254, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "...And they are in the shade during that scene, are they not? ;) No, I can't argue with the propriety of headgear...however, I think the deliberate (-ly hideous) selections made by the costumer in Emma3, in contrast to the determined focus away from Emma's headwear in Emma2 (the only bonnet I can remember is the one Paltrow wears when she gets stuck in the creek, and it's pretty benign), serves to mark the divergence in character between the two Emmas. The number and style of KB's hats lend her an old, awkish air, while the style and scarcity of Paltrow's bonnets help create an aura of youthful sweetness...remember, I was the one who called Beckinsale's portrayal \"bitchy,\" but not bad...and now that we consider the consistency in which KB's head is covered, in addition to the nastiness of most of the coverings, perhaps I should add the word \"anal\" to my description, as well."}, {"response": 255, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:10)", "body": "Another instance of agree to disagree, I suppose."}, {"response": 256, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:20)", "body": "Of course..."}, {"response": 257, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "I apologize if I became too enamoured of Mark Strong's physical attributes here. I will try to contain myself. Kim, dear, please do not even try! Just hie yourself over to the MS drool section and LET YOURSELF GO CRAZY! ;-P\""}, {"response": 258, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (23:06)", "body": "I like the BROWN hat that Kate wears when she shows Frank the town. It shaped like a Hershey's Kiss *smooch*;-)"}, {"response": 259, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (00:07)", "body": "Very perceptive, Donna...but I still thought it was yucky! ;)"}, {"response": 260, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (06:21)", "body": "Two comments on the Box Hill scene. (1) The Eltons are sitting too far from the rest of the group. Mrs Elton would not have wanted to be out of the \"center\" of attention. I believe that she was close to Jane (in the novel -- don't have a copy handy.) (2) The servants were an interesting touch. When I read the book, I never imagined that this excursion/picnic was such a production. I especially liked the shot of the servants relaxing at the bottom of the hill until the gentry were ready to leave. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 125, "subject": "Fan Fiction", "response_count": 244, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (09:10)", "body": "I posted this yesterday, but it seems to have disappeared. So I am posting it again. A Tale of Two Letters The Earl of Matlock's house in Bath. The Earl of Matlock was going over his correspondence for the day. Along with the usual bills and letters from friends, political allies, and business associates were two letters--one from his sister and one from his nephew. After making a quick perusal of these letters, he chuckled to himself. Then went to seek his wife. The Countess, who was unfortunately stricken with rheumatism, was in the breakfast parlor, going over her personal correspondence. \"My dear, I have just received two letters, which I think will interest you greatly. One is from my sister,\" the Countess frowned, for she did not get on with Lady Catherine, \"and one from our nephew, Darcy.\" \"By all means, read the letter from Darcy, but I am sure you can keep Catherine's correspondence to yourself,\" the Countess replied. \"I am afraid not, my dear, as much as would like to,\" stated the Earl, \"in fact, I shall begin with her letter.\" Brother, I am writing to inform you that our nephew, Darcy, is contemplating marriage .... \"Darcy's getting married,\" interrupted the Countess. The Earl gave her a look over his reading glasses. \"All right, my dear, I will keep quiet, I promise,\" the Countess smiled, before taking a sip of tea. .....to a most unsuitable party. The young woman has neither fortune nor connection to recommend her to the family. She has, I know, relatives who engage in trade. Darcy has been so caught in her wiles and allurements that he has forgotten what his duty to the family is. It is my belief that she is an adventuress, who will bring disgrace and ruin upon all the family. It is your duty as head of the family to remind Darcy of those obligations and hopes long held within the family. My own entreaties...... \"More like lectures, if the truth be known,\" the earl commented, which earned him a reciprocal look from the Countess, he coughed to clear his voice before continuing, My own entreaties have fallen on deaf ears. Your son, Edward, has met this woman and I am sure he will verify that is not suitable to be mistress of Pemberley. Therefore, if my nephew persists in marrying this nonity despite all our objections, you must make it that the entire family will disown him--as I have already informed him we would. I know that you will follow my wishes in this matter. Your sister, Lady Catherine de Bourgh \"Spiteful old witch,\" the Countess said. \"As if she would approve any bride for Darcy other than Anne. To ask us to participate in her own maliciousness.....\" \"My dear, calm yourself,\" the Earl interrupted, \"I still have Darcy's letter to read.\" \"Catherine always vexes me,\" the Countess replied, before taking another soothing sip of tea, and choosing a biscuit to nibble on, instructed her husband to read Darcy's letter."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (09:13)", "body": "Part 2. My dear Aunt and Uncle, I hope this letter finds you well, especially you, my dear aunt. I sincerely hope that taking the waters will prove beneficial to you health. I am writing to you with two purposes in mind. The first, and most important, is to inform you that you may wish me happy. I recently sought and received the hand of Miss Elizabeth Bennet. Miss Bennet is a lovely young woman, in both character and countenance. I am, I believe, the most fortunate of men. While I shall not bore you with the details of our courtship..... \"Bore us with detail, no my dear boy, I want details, \" mumbled the countess, as she selected another biscuit. Please be assured that I have no doubts as regards Miss Bennet's sentiments, as Lady Catherine might have led you believe. As you will undoubtedly guess, Lady Catherine is not pleased with the match. She may have already informed you of her displeasure--I know not--but I beg you will disregard any remarks made by my aunt until you have the pleasure of meeting Miss Bennet for yourselves. My cousin, Edward, who has met Miss Bennet, can tell you what an estimable young woman she is. The second purpose of this letter is to invite you both to Netherfield (the home of my good friend, Mr. Bingley, who is to wed Miss Bennet's eldest sister) until the time of the wedding. I perfectly understand if your health, my dear aunt, prevents you from making the journey. I would not wish to cause you any injury, as you are well aware. If you are unable to make the journey, I beg you will allow me to bring Miss Bennet to visit with you after we are man and wife. Your nephew, Fitzwilliam Darcy The Earl finished reading the letter. He looked at his wife, \"Well, my dear, what to you think?\" he asked. \"I think that it is a very good thing that Edward is on his way to visit us, \"perhaps he can fill us in on the details that Darcy thought would bore us. I cannot say whom I am more vexed with at the moment--Catherine or Darcy.\" \"But, my dear, do you not think that Catherine might be right. Darcy would not be the first man to have head turned by a pretty woman, whose only real interest is fortune and position.\" \"Darcy has been avoiding those women for the past ten years. It is my belief he can spot a fortune hunter at a hundred yards. No, I do not think Catherine could be right--but I will wait to pass judgment until we have questioned Edward.\""}, {"response": 3, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (09:27)", "body": "Part 3. Col. Fitzwilliam arrived later that afternoon, just in time for tea. After the usual pleasantries and inquiries into the health and well being of all, the Countess launched her objective. \"So, Edward, do tell us about this young woman Darcy is marrying. Tell us about Miss Bennet.\" Col. Fitzwilliam, who had just taken a sip of tea, had a most unfortunate response. The Countess handed him a napkin so that he could clean up the tea that now soaked his lap. An interesting response, thought the Countess. His parents were staring at him, expectantly. \"Mother, Father, I hate to be disobliging, but I must beg you will leave off questioning me until I have time to change,\" he quickly exited the room before his parents could forestall him. Finally, the Countess thought as her son re-entered the drawing room (though Fitzwilliam had only taken a quarter of an hour to change). \"So Darcy is to marry Miss Bennet?\" the Colonel asked. \"Yes, we received a letter from him today,\" here the Countess paused, \"and also one from Lady Catherine. Both of these letters tell us to apply to you for collaboration of their contents. My dear,\" the Countess said to her husband, \"perhaps you should read the letters to Edward.\" Edward Fitzwilliam listened to his father reading the letters. When his father finished reading both letters, he got up and looked out the window (in a manner quite reminiscent of his cousin). He was not sure how much Darcy would like him to relate to parents, and he needed to choose he words carefully. \"Lady Catherine is justified in saying that Miss Bennet has neither fortune or connection in her favor, but as my cousin needs neither, I cannot see how this can be of great importance. Miss Bennet is indeed an estimable young woman, and will suit my cousin very well.\" If he thought that this answer would suit the Countess, he was wrong."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "Carolyn! Great job...most interesting....are you to stop there? Are we not to hear what their impression is to be? I love it!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (09:34)", "body": "Thanks for re-posting this Carolyn. It must have fallen into the cracks during our day of chaos."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (09:51)", "body": "Part 4. \"Edward, come away from the window,\" the Countess ordered. She indicated the chair next to hers, and Fitzwilliam reluctantly sat down. \"Since your cousin has been so disobliging as to not bore us with details you must do so.\" \"Mother, I am not sure I will have the answers to your questions,\" the Colonel confessed. \"I am sure you will do your best, that is all I ask. Now, tell me where and when did he meet this Miss Bennet?\" \"I believe it was last fall, when he visited his friend Bingley's house in Hertfordshire.\" \"So the attachment is of long standing then?\" the Earl asked. He felt some relief at this information. Darcy, he knew, would not be fooled for a long period of time if the young woman was merely after his fortune. \"Yes, I believe so. I met Miss Bennet when Darcy and I visited Lady Catherine last Easter. She was visiting her cousin and his wife,\" thus the Colonel began to relate the whole of cousin's attachment as he knew it, being careful to omit the private conversations between Darcy and himself. \"I found her to be lively, witty and intelligent young woman. Darcy is truly taken with her. He loves her and she would , I believe, only accept his offer of marriage if she returned his feelings. Miss Bennet is truly a fine a young woman, whom I do not doubt will make Darcy very happy.\" The Countess looked at him as if expecting more. Fitzwilliam struggled for something to say that would persuade her to leave off questioning him. Not quite knowing what to say, he found himself saying, \"She makes him smile.\" The Countess leaned back against her chair with a small smile on her face. Fitzwilliam was at a lost why the last should have satisfied her curiosity when everything else had not, but he was not about question this bit of good fortune. Instead, he decided to take advantage of the situation. \"I cannot abide by Lady Catherine dictates. I will be there when Darcy marries Miss Bennet, and I hope you will be, too.\" A servant came into the room to announce that dinner was ready. \"Oh, I would not miss it for the world,\" said the Countess, as she began to rise from her chair. Fitzwilliam quickly offered his assistance. The Countess, walking toward the door with her son by her side. \"You have made me extremely curious to meet Miss Bennet,\" she said as they entered the hallway, \"more so, by what you so artfully sought to avoid telling me.\" The Colonel stopped. The Countess patted his arm, \"Do not worry, I shall not press you on the matter. It is obviously a confidence between y u and Darcy, and I would not wish you to break a confidence.\" The Countess left Fitzwilliam standing in the hallway. His father stopped beside him. \"Your mother is a very special and insightful woman,\" he remarked. \"Yes, she is. Sir,\" the Colonel began, only to be interrupted by his father. \"I also do not wish you to break a confidence between yourself and Darcy. I shall write to him accepting his invitation. But come let us go to dinner, for cook has made all your favorite dishes and I am anxious to get to the apple tarts for dessert.\" The Earl escorted his still bemused son into the dining room."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (09:55)", "body": "Part 5. The next morning the Earl sat down and wrote two letters in reply to those he had received the day before. His nephew received his with great joy. My dear nephew, I am most delighted to hear of your engagement. I am sure Miss Bennet is a lovely young woman whom I will pleased to welcome into the family. Edward is visiting with us and echoed your praises of the young woman. My wife is extremely anxious to meet Miss Bennet, and insists that we visit you at Netherfield as quickly as can possibly be arranged. Your letter has greatly improved her spirits and she says nothing will refrain her from being at your wedding. I will send an express so that you will know exactly when to expect us. Your Uncle, Gerald Fitzwilliam, Earl of Matlock. His sister received hers with a great deal of anger. Sister, I will not bother Darcy with your foolish rantings. No one but you ever had any expectation of Darcy marrying Anne. I feel that it is my duty as head of the family to make Miss Bennet welcome. Edward speaks nothing but praise for the young lady. Catherine, you are only doing yourself a disservice if you persist in your resentment. I will not be party to it, and neither will my family. In this matter you will have to stand alone. I am sorry if my sentiments cause you pain, but I will not follow your wishes in this matter. Your brother, Gerald Fitzwilliam, Earl of Matlock"}, {"response": 8, "author": "mich", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (11:41)", "body": "Carolyn, what a treat you have given us."}, {"response": 9, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (11:43)", "body": "Carolyn, that's fantastic. I LIKE the Countess. Especially \"Bore us with details, I want details\" She sounds like a fine old gossip."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "Well done, Carolyn. Very well done, indeed!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (12:19)", "body": "Carolyn's story has been posted to the Guild ."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (12:27)", "body": "The Sanwich Man is here."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (13:01)", "body": "Oh Carolyn! \"She makes him smile.\" I love that, so sweet! Thank you. I agree with kate, I like the Count and Countess very much and should not be sorry to know them better! ;-)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "Oh Carolyn! \"She makes him smile.\" I love that, so sweet! Cheryl, you stole my line! Carolyn, it's WONDERFUL!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (14:36)", "body": "Exactly Cheryl and SusanC, to all : a new found career aka a star(writer) is born Aspiring to become a thespian Cheryl, would see you casted as the lovely Countess ;)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (16:08)", "body": "Well done Carolyn! Brava!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (16:38)", "body": "Carolyn, it's just wonderful. I saw the start of this when you first posted it, but it's even better now that it's finished! I, too, love the Earl and Countess - details, I want details! Should we get her into this group?????;-)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (17:08)", "body": "Thanks everyone. I like the Countess alot--I am sure she will appear again."}, {"response": 19, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:19)", "body": ""}, {"response": 20, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:20)", "body": ""}, {"response": 21, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:35)", "body": "HC: You've designed the book cover before writing the story! I love it, but would Fanny Price (Bertram?) ever approve of anything so ostentatious? ;)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:40)", "body": "What a HOOT! JFTR, my DH asked me to clarify that it's the shoot'em up car chase scene that he has been waiting for. I still think it sounds like FP:GE will do the trick!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:42)", "body": "Guys -- the new drool topic of yesterday and the day before (#200) was accidentally destroyed, so your last few chapters of \"Young Fitz\" are gone from the board, Inko... Carolyn, the phrase \"foolish rantings\" may have accurately described his thoughts about her, but it wouldn't have been at all usual to include such a phrase, addressed directly to the recipient in the second person, in a letter of the period (since it would have been a breach of conventional propriety)..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:30)", "body": "It was already posted in the Derbyshire Writers' Guild, H.C., but in case anyone hasn't seen the next 3 chapters, I'll re-post them now: YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--Part 15 The three weeks in London which followed the four at Rosings were delightful for Fitzwilliam. He missed his uncle John, who had rejoined his regiment, and Pierre, who had remained in Kent, but the town provided such constant fascination and interest that the days seemed to fly by with greater rapidity than he had ever known. Every morning Mr. Stone would hurry him through his lessons in order to leave plenty of time to visit one or another of the major attractions. They visited the Tower of London where Fitzwilliam was thrilled with the history of its famous prisoners, the prisons and different towers, traitor's gate leading from the river, the ravens in the courtyard and the famous Yeomen, guardians of the Tower. They visited the Guildhall and other famous buildings in the heart of the City of London. One day they even journeyed as far as Hampton Court, the famous palace of Sir Thomas More and Henry VIII, where they were happy to find another maze. Fitzwilliam accompanied his father on some of his business visits in the City and to the new shops in Oxford Street. They watched a parliamentary debate from the visitors gallery in the House of Commons and another from the gallery in the House of Lords where they saw his uncle, the Earl of M....., seated with all the other peers of the realm. There were walks with his mother in Kensington gardens and visits to new art galleries where they both delighted in seeing the portraits of Gainsborough and Reyn lds and Lawrence. He accompanied his parents on visits to their many friends in town and found himself quite easy in their company; and he mingled with his parents' friends when they called at their house in the evening before they withdrew for dinner. One highlight of this visit to town was an evening at Vauxhall gardens. There was so much to see that Fitzwilliam did not know which way to turn; there were tight-rope walkers, jugglers, vocal concerts, and horses with acrobatic riders in different parts of the gardens. The evening ended with a large firework display which absolutely astonished him with its power and beauty. He never knew that so much amusement could be sampled in one evening. Another highlight were two visits to the theatre. They saw Sheridan's \"The Rivals\" which Fitzwilliam thought very funny; he laughed so much when Mrs. Malaprop was on stage that he decided he had to read the play to find out what he had missed. They also saw Shakespeare's \"Henry V\" which prompted Fitzwilliam to wish he were an actor. He would like to be the King who advises his men: \"This day is call'd the feast of Crispian. He that outlives this day, and comes safe home, will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd, and rouse him at the name of Crispian... and Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by, from this day to the ending of the world, but we in it shall be remembered--we few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.\" Now, when England was again at war with France, he would like to declaim: \"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; or close the wall up with our English dead. . . . when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger: . . . Follow your spirit; and upon this charge cry \ufffdGod for Harry, England, and Saint George!\" Written over 170 years earlier, it was yet a rousing speech for Fitz' time and stirred the audience to cheers. After the play finished, he told his parents: \"If it were not for Pemberley, I think I would like to act on the stage.\" They smiled but told him very firmly that acting was not a respectable profession and certainly not a suitable one for a member of one of the best families in England. They suggested, instead, that he should read Shakespeare's plays and learn some of the dialogue for his own r their amusement. It was late May before the party returned to Pemberley. Fitzwilliam, while excited about everything he had seen in town, was equally happy to see the familiar park and house again. He was eager to find Miss Field and George to tell them about all his adventures, and to try and interest George in Shakespeare's plays in the hope of having an accomplice in his attempts at acting. George, however, was not interested in anything that sounded too much like school work; instead he related his latest pranks i the village, news of his sisters, and the latest gossip from Lambton."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--Part 16 During the summer Fitzwilliam again tried to persuade his father to teach him how to use a gun; he wanted to be able to shoot with the party due to stay at Pemberley for opening day of the grouse season. Thomas discussed this wish with Lady Anne, who was adamantly against the idea, and with Mr. Wickham who saw no harm in it, but agreed that perhaps one more year's wait would be better. \"I wish George were more interested in the land, the hunt, and shooting,\" Mr. Wickham told Mr. Darcy, \"but I am afraid his mind seems to be more occupied with the shops in Lambton, entertainment, and making himself agreeable to all.\" \"Well, confidentially, I wish Fitzwilliam had some of George's ability in that last department,\" Mr. Darcy replied, \"he was easy enough with our friends in town last spring, but I fear that he is very uncomfortable with anyone not in our immediate circle. I enjoy George's easy manners.\" When he found Fitz near the stables his father said: \"I am sorry Fitz. You will be disappointed, I know, but we all think it better you wait another year before you learn to handle a gun.\" \"I was afraid of that, father. Was mother against the idea?\" Fitz asked. \"Yes, she was; I was not much in favour of it either and even Mr. Wickham said it would be wiser to wait another year. Come, Fitz, let us ride together.\" They rode over the fields and Fitz soon left all disappointment behind; he had never held very high hopes of learning to shoot this year and by the time they finished their ride he was quite prepared to wait until next year. Late in August and all through September, while the shooting parties were occupied in the fields, George showed Fitzwilliam how to bring down a bird without a gun. They rode into Lambton and on the green they collected horse chestnuts under the largest tree. They then took their collection to the smithy who punched holes through the chestnuts; George showed Fitzwilliam how to string two or three of them on a long piece of string, swing it around above his head a few times and let the weighted string fl off at a bird. This crude weapon rarely hit its target and, if by chance it did, it only maimed the poor animal. Fitzwilliam thought this very poor sport, but he liked the chestnuts well enough and liked to swing and aim the weapon at a tree or at a fixed spot in a haystack, one day even scaring a young farm hand and farm girl sitting on the far side of the stack. The two boys continued riding to Lambton nearly every day and were often joined in their hunt for chestnuts by some of the local village boys. George seemed to know all of them; he joked and laughed with them while Fitzwilliam stood by, wanting to join in the fun and not quite knowing how to do so; when he finally tried a joke they all stopped to look at him as if he had spoken in a foreign language, as if they did not know whether to laugh at the joke or at him. He felt very disconcerted, took his che tnuts to the smithy, and mounted his horse to head back to Pemberley, leaving George to make his own way back. Luckily the chestnut season was soon over and Fitzwilliam had no more reason to join George in his rides to Lambton."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:33)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--Part 17 Edmund Stone reported regularly on his pupils' progress to Mr. Darcy, but as he entered the latter's study in January 1794, his mood was depressed and his countenance very serious; he did not look forward to the coming interview for, once again, he had nothing good to report on one of his pupils. \"We have tried everything, Sir, and nothing seems to prevail with him,\" Mr. Stone admitted to Mr. Darcy, \"he will not apply himself to his studies; George has a good mind which, I fear, he is determined to waste in the pursuit of pleasure.\" \"What do you suggest then, Mr. Stone?\" asked Mr. Darcy. \"I have talked to him repeatedly of the need to concentrate on his lessons, but it does not seem to have had any effect on him; I am quite at a loss as to how to handle him.\" \"His manners are excellent, but I do detect a certain frivolous attitude to any serious converse,\" Thomas Darcy thought aloud, asking \"would it help to call Mr. Wickham to hear our concerns regarding his son?\" \"I have talked to Mr. Wickham several times, but I fear he is not at home with him enough to prevail upon his son. I think it is Mrs. Wickham's influence that diverts George from any serious application. Miss Field and I both think that it is time to consider sending him to a boarding school away from this mother's and sisters' company,\" Mr. Stone suggested. \"I think you may be right. And what about Fitz? How is his progress? His mother and I do not want him to go away to school just yet, although I know he must do so in another year or so.\" \"I wish every student were like Fitzwilliam,\" Mr. Stone replied, \"he truly enjoys learning; he has great curiosity and wants to know as much as he can. In fact, if there is any fault with him, it is that he is often too serious; he does not like to waste his time and gets irritated when George disrupts the lessons.\" \"Then you do not think Fitz will be lonely if George goes to school and he stays here?\" \"Perhaps a little lonely when he rides or plays outside, but I think he will be delighted to have his lessons alone without the interruptions, without the divided attention,\" the tutor replied. \"If that is the case, I think your suggestion of sending George to school is a sound one, Mr. Stone. If you will recommend some suitable schools, I will talk to Mr. Wickham and see what can be arranged. I do not think he can go before the Michaelmas term, however, so you will have to struggle a little longer. Thank you for this recommendation, Mr. Stone.\" After the tutor had left the study, Thomas Darcy sat staring out of the window and thought that perhaps he had made a mistake in taking such an interest in George Wickham. Pleasing smiles and an easy manner had clouded his vision and made him overlook a lazy and vain disposition; perhaps his interest had raised George's expectations, as Anne had once suggested, into thinking of himself as an equal to Fitzwilliam. \"Let us hope that boarding school will cure these evils and make him a more serious stude t; he might yet be able to pursue a career in the church,\" he reflected."}, {"response": 27, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "Carolyn - a lovely story. Every character likeable - believable - and, of course, Lady C gets hers in the end. Perfect!!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "HC, first off, I love the Fanny logo and I hope you will actually follow up on this idea, Bravo! Secondly, lighten up buddy. It's call Fan- Fiction! The ordinary rules don't apply here, and I for one am sure that if I know someone will be following after and correcting me, I shall never write again!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:38)", "body": "una pretiosa Margarita No comprehende. Por favor ...er... explana----high school Spanish was way too long ago! :-)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:41)", "body": "tequila, triple sec, limeade, lots of crushed ice, salt on the rim - that's what I understood, Meggin"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "I did not think it was in reference to me, just curious. Margaritas I know very well (love the salt!), una means \"one\" (feminine ending), but pretiosa has me stumped. Could it mean \"pretty\"?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:51)", "body": "so then, maybe it was for you? (you can tell, my Latin is nonexistent, as well)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:57)", "body": "so then, maybe it was for you? blushing furiously I think not (and now it seems that I was fishing for compliment! ;-)"}, {"response": 34, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:58)", "body": "Boy your minds are on the profane when they should be on the sacred! ;-) I thought \"UNA PRETIOSA MARGARITA\" would be an appropriate motto for a Price family coat of arms, since it's taken from the Latin Bible (vulgate) where the King James Version has \"A pearl of great PRICE\" (Matthew 13:46). \"Margarita\" is the Greek and Latin word for \"pearl\"..."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (21:16)", "body": "I have written a bit more of my hypothetical story: \"What if Lady Catherine had not interfered\" (leading to Darcy and Lizzy never realising they are in love with one another). I have written it through Jane and Bingley's wedding. The first half of this part was shown before, but has been edited again since then. Here is the direct link (the story is already at the Guild ): Between Love and Loss"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "H.C., now my face really is red. I knew (of course) that Margaret means \"pearl\" in Latin but somehow I've never gotten around to reading the bible in anything but the King James version. ;-)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (21:36)", "body": "Ann, please finish this soon. I cannot bear to have Elizabeth and Darcy so distressed. It is so very well written that I eagerly await more."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (22:08)", "body": "Thanks, I will try, but I have been working on this sinve at least October!!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (23:09)", "body": "HENRY; ROTFLOL You've put so much work into the logo, now we want the content."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Becks", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (23:29)", "body": "PLEEZ ANNIE, finish it ASAP! It is so wonderful!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Dina", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (10:36)", "body": "Henry FYI - the Mormon Church also has a book called The Pearl of Great Price. It contains translation of papyrus by Abraham and Moses. No latin I believe, just ancient egyptian."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (12:24)", "body": "Inko; lovely, and do take your time. We will find some other diversion to fill our time until you are ready. Cindy; since HC's book started with a suggestion resulting from 'tandem' writing, perhaps you could persuade your husband to write the necessary car chase scenes. HC: please let us know if you would like some assistance with certain other chapters of your book. I'm sure that we have many proficients here who would be willing to help you out! Wendy, in particular, comes to mind for her excellence in scenes that involve vacuum cleaners..."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (15:08)", "body": "Carolyn, your letters and their reception are so well done, loved the tea on Fitzwilliams lap and when he looked out the window like his cousin... And the Earl chuckling was great...biscuit nibbling made my mind wander... And agree that Ann has left us with our hearts aching for Liz and Fitz. Rather interesting to have Lizzy suffer from her own medicine. I am not really as heard-hearted as that sounds. But I feel sure that it will all come to a happy ending, though Ann is determind to torment us in this delightful way. Thanks"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (15:14)", "body": "And that sequel on Fanny Price and the Moral Rearmament of the Marsians sure has the makings of a bestseller, from the outside at least..."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (17:31)", "body": "Carolyn, I am so glad you posted this story again since I missed it the first time; it is wonderful. (Like the others, I loved that \"she makes him smile.\") Inko, I really enjoy your storytelling. I love your attention to small detail such as the chestnuts. Eagerly awaiting the next installment. Ann, lovely. I know you will be busy with your new job but please get our two lovers back together soon."}, {"response": 46, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "ELIZABETH AND DARCY: THE SEQUEL PART 4 Elizabeth Bennet Darcy had never felt more miserable and wretched in her life. Mr Bennet, although much improved as a result of her tireless efforts and attentions, was was still very weak. Elizabeth could not bear to be a minute away from him; many a night, she found herself falling asleep at his side, using one of Mr Bennet's treasured books as her pillow. What truly vexed Lizzy was the insipid, negative platitudes of Doctor Wentworth. The continuous reassurances from both Jane and Bingley concerning th man's character and reputation as one of the best doctors in four counties did little to ease her distress. To be utterly honest, Wentworth's bony frame, thining voice and ashen pallor repelled her, as did his endless repetitions that Mr Bennet could not be expected to live many more nights. Weighing even more heavily on her mind, this very evening, was the strange behaviour of Mr Darcy. It had been four weeks since Elizabeth and Mr Darcy had arrived at Longbourn; for most of that time, however, Lizzy had borne much of the the stress of Mr Bennet's illness alone. Urgent business with his steward had called him twice home to Pemberley and even once, this very week, to London. It pained Elizabeth, in particular, that since leaving Pemberley, they had spent only one night together as truly man nd wife. Even during the rare moments that they were alone, Mr Darcy seemed forever distant. Indeed, his thoughts seemed far occupied by some other place and some other perplexing matter. On many occasions, most especially the night before his departure for London, Lizzy would catch him eyeing her intently. Sometimes, in the privacy of their bedchamber, she even believed he was on the verge of divulging the reason for this unease, only to be interrupted by Jane or one of the servants. \"Is it my family, once again?\" Lizzy thought anxiously. With a blush, she knew that she could not expect him to abide on a daily basis Mrs Bennet's and Mrs Phillips's endless parade of vulgarities and dramatics. As in the days of their engagement, she did all she could to shield him from these embarrassments. Within a week of their arrival, she and Darcy had even removed themselves to Bingley and Jane's comfortable, gracious home in Meryton. Mr Darcy's apparent lack of concern for her father, however, was one mystery that Lizzy could not explain or justify. One of the happiest circumstances arising from her marriage to Mr Darcy was the camraderie that had slowly begun to develop between her father and husband. Elizabeth was particularly touched by the exhuberant attentions that her husband had shown Mr Bennet upon his first visit to the Pemberley library. Mr Darcy could not have been more kind or more indulgent. Heightening her anguish, then, was the realization that since arriving in Hertfordshire, Mr Darcy had been, at the very least, indifferent to Mr Bennet's sufferings. To Elizabeth, it seemed that whenever she chanced to mention her father's condition, the topic of conversation would irrevocably be changed to some news from Pemberley or a letter from Georgiana. Upon his return from London this afternoon, Elizabeth had determined to ask him the real reason behind this puzzling behaviour. A prior engagement a Lucas Lodge, however, had intervened once again. Elizabeth bitterly reflected that she had hardly had five minutes alone with Mr Darcy all evening. Tentatively getting up from her dressing table, Lizzy pressed her feverish cheek against the windowpane. To her shock, she noticed that her hands were trembling. Turning, her eyes met Mr Darcy. Instantly, Lizzy wondered how long he had been standing there, observing her. She was still amazed by the power that his touch exerted over her, as he playfully wrapped his arms about her. \"Dearest, loveliest Elizabeth. Have I told you how beautiful you looked this evening?\" For the first time since their marriage, Elizabeth instinctively pulled away from him. \"I thought you had barely noticed. You seemed so captivated by Maria Lucas. She is an excellent dancer, is she not?\" \"Maria Lucas...,\" he said disbelievingly. Smiling, he tried to affect the playful, lively tone that had so bewitched him, all of those months ago. Realizing, however, that she was, in fact, serious, he abruptly replied: \"Maria Lucas was the only young lady without a partner. As your dear friend, Mrs Collins' sister-I felt it proper and my duty to dance....\" \"Really! You astonish me! I can remember a time when you were in no humour to give consequence to young ladies who were slighted by other men.\" \"Darling Elizabeth-what is the matter with you? Indeed-you look very ill. You're trembling. Come sit by the fire.\" Concern etched over his face, Darcy once again sought to take her in his arms. \"I should ask you the same question. NO! Don't touch me! Don't ever touch me!\" All at once, the room went black. Lizzy no longer knew where she was or what she was saying. The last thing she clearly re"}, {"response": 47, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (19:25)", "body": "Don't shoot me. All will be resolved most pleasantly and happily."}, {"response": 48, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:18)", "body": "All such lovely stories here! Imagine CF is here listening to them in this rapt posture... http://www.grin.net/~meluchie/firthlist/fl_colin.htm"}, {"response": 49, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "Sorry, this is the one I meant (but the above is nice also) ;-) http://www.grin.net/~meluchie/firthlist/caretaker4.htm"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:44)", "body": "Lovely, Cass. I've got two quick questions. Will Mr. Bennet live??? and, two, are Lizzie's hormones working overtime at this point????;-)"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (21:00)", "body": "Don't shoot me. All will be resolved most pleasantly and happily. And soon? Please, please, please! ;-)"}, {"response": 52, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (21:06)", "body": "Inko, that's what I was thinking"}, {"response": 53, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (22:47)", "body": "Mari, DH says, \"What's to write? Dialogue would only detract from the action.\" This is a faithful narrative of all that he said. For my part, I'll answer that he's more a notes guy than a words guy. When he's written songs, he seems to stress out about the lyrics much more so than the tune. However, both manage to turn out beautifully! Therefore, I think he'd be happier to write the theme music for the BBC/A&E adaptation of FP:GE than be involved in the collaboration on the story itself."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (22:56)", "body": "By the way, I think I should warn people that the next section of my story will have Lizzy marrying someone else--not Darcy--(most of this part is written, but still needs work and an entirely new section before I post it). But please have no fear--I do get Darcy and Lizzy together in the end. My story is more of a Persuasion meets P&P story."}, {"response": 55, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "oh, Ann, do hurry"}, {"response": 56, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (23:19)", "body": "Cindy -- \"The BBC/A\u2213E adaptation of FP:GE\" As a certain fictional character might say ``A lady's imagination is very rapid; it jumps from a raw idea to a finished book, and from a finished book to a BBC/A&E adaptation in a moment. I knew you would be wishing me joy.'' I might actually write a little bit of it, since the idea has gotten a nice (if bemused) reception (I sort of have an idea how the beginning might go); but don't expect very much... And Cindy's DH -- no car chases, because the Galactics use an infinitely superior technology to crude petroleum-burning, smog-belching contraptions that actually have moving parts (gasp!!! how frightfully archaic!!), and don't even travel along the local direction of gravity (that's \"up and down\" to you.. )"}, {"response": 57, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (00:31)", "body": "ELIZABETH AND DARCY PART 5 When Elizabeth finally awoke, she could no longer recollect the day or even the hour. The last few days had passed by in a intangible haze, an endless spectacle of strange voices and wrenching pain. It was the first time in her life that she had ever been truly ill. The one constant in this nightmare was Mr Darcy. Even in her state of semi-consciousness, Lizzy vividly recalled his firm, deep voice, insistently begging her not to leave him. Slowly opening her eyes, Lizzy gazed at her sister Jane's smiling face. \"Dearest Lizzy. Is there anything I can get you? You gave us all quite the scare. The doctor has assured us that you are going to be fine. A slight fever-I believe. \"But Jane-where is Mr Darcy?\" \"He left this morning for Pemberley. The doctor swore to him that you were no longer in danger. Charles and I both prevailed on him to attend to his business, leaving you to my care. Although, I am certain he would not have gone if he had known you would awaken so soon. Lizzy-I have never seen a man suffer more than Mr Darcy, these past few days. He never left your bedside for a moment. I don't think he slept once. They had to pry his arms from you when the doctor arrived. Nothing could be done that he di not do himself. He would only let Doctor Davis attend you. \"Doctor Davis?\" \"Yes. Did you not know? Mr Darcy brought Doctor Davis with him for London to consult about Father's illness.\" Jane's last words echoed a hundred times in Lizzy's ears. \"So this was the reason behind Mr Darcy's mysterious trip to London,\" she thought shamefully. How could I have suspected Darcy of indifference!\" All at once, every anxious look and hestitant conversation of the past few weeks took on a richer, bittersweet meaning. Sincerely concerned for her father's health and his dearest Elizabeth's own happiness, Mr Darcy had borne the entirety of the expense of seeking out and enticing one of the most eminent d ctors on the Continent to Longbourn. Instantly, Elizabeth knew that he had done it for her. And her heart filled with the deepest love and gratitude. How much her family owed Mr Darcy, once again. He was truly the best man she had ever known. \"Oh Jane-do tell me. How is dearest Papa?\" Lizzy managed to utter, her dark eyes shining with emotion. \"The good doctor expects him to make a full recovery. Although, Papa would only yield to the good news, upon learning that Mama had decided it was time to leave her vigil upstairs....Lizzy-what is the matter?\" \"Oh Jane-you do not know the hurtful things I said to Darcy. I cannot bear to repeat what I said that night. How could I have misjudged him?\" \"Dearest Lizzy,\" replied Jane confidently, \"whatever quarrel you and Mr Dacry may have had cannot last for long. Only last week, Charles and I reflected that we had never seen two people more madly in love.\""}, {"response": 58, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (02:13)", "body": "Yeah Cass! You didn't kill off Mr. Bennet! Thank you! But, do we get to see the reunion scene between Darcy and Lizzy? Pretty please? ;-) I know she must gain her strength back first, but then...;-)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (03:19)", "body": "Quick post ...BEWITCHED, BOTHERED and BEWILDERED. Part II or OTHERWISE ENGAGED part 1 The windows of the great stone building were spreading their light into the dark of the gathering November dusk, and every time the door was opened a flood of light and music found it\ufffds way to the courtyard. Guests had been arriving for the last hour and Mr Darcy, who had been at first calmly seated listening to Sir William Lucas and some of his neighbours discussing where to buy the best thoroughbred mare, acted upon an increasing restlessness and started to walk about in his usual manner. From time to time he would look out to watch for newcomers. After a while, as he was pausing at one of the great windows overlooking the drive up to Netherfields\ufffd main entrance, he observed that yet another carriage had arrived. It\ufffds inhabitants were assisted down to the ground and soon an abundance of colour in the form of gowns, ribbons, flowers and lace was moving up the steps. He had by then identified the bearer of one very obvious fethered head dress to be the trying Mrs Bennet and as his gaze was eagerly searching the faces around her, soon enough found w at he was looking for; Miss Elizabeth Bennet in a silk evening cloak of a glossy brown shade with a hood covering her hair and thus, in an enchanting manner, framing her face and eyes. Those were, that instant, lifted up to the facade and began to form an inquiring expression as she caught him watching her. Was it the many torches, held by footmen to assist guests safely into the house, that were reflected in the flash of her glance? He immediately took one step away from the window, and severely reproaching himself on so imprudent behaviour, hastened back to the ballrooms which were by that time swarming with guests. Later there was some minor commotion among the groups of guests, as their host made his way through the rooms, politely conversing with Jane Bennet on his right arm and Elizabeth Bennet on his left. Darcy, sensing this slight stir, turned his head and absolutely started with admiration at the sight of Elizabeth. She was wearing a most becoming yellow gown that closely followed the upper part of her body and was lowcut showing the skin of her lovely neck. There was a twinge inside him. The shade brought ab ut a bewitching glitter and sparkle in her eyes and in her dark curls, tiny white flowers were skilfully intertwined. Though he had recently decided not to let her presence affect him like he had permitted it to do during her stay at Netherfield, it was not in his power to ignore her appearance.He found her remarkable beauty to be quite stunning and was now practically unaware of what he was doing. He turned round to be able to watch her adorable figure moving over the floor at Bingley\ufffds arm. She was chee fully conversing and letting her eyes register what was around her. Was she looking for someone? Then he saw an officer approaching her with a smile of high esteem on his face. He must have had something agreeable to say to her, judging from the bright smile that flashed over her face as she answered him. Their conversation was continued and Darcy- with some inner emotion - saw her bite her soft lip, obviously from disappointment, as he could percieve that some of the light left her face and the look in er eyes was nearly dull for a moment. The next instant he was perplexed to have them both focus their attention upon him. He at once averted his own gaze to some nonsignificant object and was somewhat puzzled by the contents of their dialogue. to be continued..."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (03:24)", "body": "continued... He walked away and took his stand by a window, in order to contemplate the possible cause for Miss Bennet\ufffds displeasure and above all, to prevent any signs of his inner turmoil from being detectable . This renewed experience of her effect on him, in spite of what he had so sincerely intended, was not to his liking. He was used to be in full command of his outer and inner man, and it was now as if he was loosing control due to some deplorable emotional mishap. He could only believe that he had not been s fficiently on his guard, and that now he had seen her and got used to the way she looked, he would not again have his head quite turned. To ascertain that things were perfectly normal, he approached to make some polite enquiries. She replied in a civil but rather cold manner, whereupon she turned away with a noticeable degree of ill-humour. As he had no idea that she blamed him for Wickham\ufffds absence and was resolved against any sort of conversation with himself, Darcy was a bit surprised. Still every proof of her prejudice against him and of her total lack of ingratiation were the very reasons that once more enticed him into paying attenti n to Miss Bennet. All his life, he had been accustomed to women smiling at him, admiring every word he uttered and by every other possible method trying to make themselves agreeable to him. They wanted his name, his wealth, his connections, his estate and - though he had rarely been aware of it - some might even have wanted his person. He was sick and tired of it. He had never been allowed to approach a woman on his own initiative, using his own ingenuity and social ability. He was not used to it at all. He really did not know how to carry it out successfully. It was a challenge and he reacted to it with instants of irresolute wariness, moments of firm resolution , an irregular pulse and a pleasureable sense of vitality."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (06:43)", "body": "Re: 58 But, do we get to see the reunion scene between Darcy and Lizzy? Pretty please? ;-) I know she must gain her strength back first, but then...;-) Yes, Cassandra, please do. Ann, I loved it. Such a pleasant way to start the day."}, {"response": 62, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (07:27)", "body": "ann, words escape me Some words do not: some might even have wanted his person"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (07:51)", "body": "To all the ladies who have written stories, thank you. I have not commented before, but I want you to know that I truly admire your writing talents and really appreciate that you share them with us here. I have begun to read these little vignettes over and over with such regularity that I haven't reread any portion of P&P for over a week now. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And, please don't stop! Linda"}, {"response": 64, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (07:53)", "body": "HC, I cannot clear this with DH before posting (still snoozing), but I believe that whatever the conveyance, the effect is pretty much the same."}, {"response": 65, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (07:56)", "body": "esp., so long as the \"shoot-en-up\" part remains intact"}, {"response": 66, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (08:00)", "body": "Mari, re: #42 - how do I search on \"vacuum cleaner\" so I can try to discover the meaning in this? I'm guessing it predates my finding y'all here"}, {"response": 67, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (08:08)", "body": "plez disregard #66 - just refound the vacuuming scene"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (08:19)", "body": "some might even have wanted his person. No, I cannot allow it! Whatever can you mean? Ann, thank you so much for a great story!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "Ann R., you rule! Very nice work indeed!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (11:21)", "body": "how lovely to start the day with a good cup of coffee and a heartwarming/heartthrilling nouvelle"}, {"response": 71, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (11:22)", "body": "not fully awake yet duh"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Dina", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (11:59)", "body": "He had never been allowed to approach a woman on his own initiative, using his own ingenuity and social ability. Excellent!!!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (12:02)", "body": "Ann2: some might even have wanted his person Why Ann dearest, whomever could you mean?"}, {"response": 74, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (16:44)", "body": "Cheryl, Carolyn, any one that I missed: Thanks. More is coming, when I get some time. And yes-after torturing them so horribly, I am planning the most ROMANTIC of reconciliations."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (17:02)", "body": "Cass, thank you for saving Mr. Bennet; take your time, but we're anxiously awaiting Darcy's and Lizzie's reconciliation - what a hot time in spring that will be!!;-) Anne2, your story is really beautiful. Some might even have wanted his person ! I plead guilty!!!;-)"}, {"response": 76, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (18:31)", "body": "I go away from this board for 48 hours, and look what happens!Wonderful, all of you! Superb bed-time reading! Inko, I'll say this again in case you didn't see my response posted on disaster day- you have made such a nice derangement of epitaphs!and the bit about the horse chestnut seeds- I shall have to conker this! Ann2, you have given us a treasure in \"Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered\" I like it very well indeed!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (18:41)", "body": "Thanks to all who participate to this thread. It's so imaginative, romantic, heart-wrenching and suspensful. I just love it!"}, {"response": 78, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (18:56)", "body": "Here is a \"sequel\" to P&P Chapter one. Any comments? CRISIS AT PEMBERLY CHAPTER ONE Rain danced in waves across the pond in front of Pemberly Manor. From the Eastern most window of the Great Hall Mrs. Elizabeth Bennet Darcy gazed upon the scene but her mind was engaged elsewhere. Her thoughts were not upon the events of today, despite a frantic race to Plymouth currently in progress by William, her husband of one year, to prevent his sister, Georgiana, and Captain Denny from boarding the sailing ship Oceana bound this eve for the American colonies. Rather it was the long anticipated Pem erly ball held only a fortnight earlier that had precipitated this event which now occupied her attention. How different things had been in the month prior as preparations were set forth. As invitations were prepared announcing the First Anniversary Celebration of the Darcy\ufffds betrothal, Lizzy had looked forward to a reunion of relatives and friends not attempted since their wedding. Owing to the distances to be traveled by many of the guests, including her parents at Longbourn, the ensuing weeks would see the arrival of many parties to be lodged at Pemberly. Her mother had insisted that she and Mr. Bennet and her two sisters come two weeks early so as to acquaint herself with the environs and to ensure that the preparations under the purview of her daughter were properly made. Mr. Bennet, on the other hand had already made several visits on his own during the course of the past year was quite comfortable with the surroundings in contrast to the obvious astonishments of the rest of the family. The impact of the manor, however, was soon replaced by Mrs. Bennet\ufffds condescension to provide her daughter with endless advice for maintaining a superior place among society\ufffds elite. Perhaps it was t e strained relationship with her mother, which may have dated to her rejection of Mr. Collins, a prior suitor, that was the source of many subsequent disagreements that ensued over proper decorum. From that point forward the joy of subsequent arrivals were somewhat lessened by her mother\ufffds numerous attempts to account for the guest accommodations at Pemberly. Finally the day of the ball was at hand. The Bingleys, Elizabeth\ufffds sister and husband Charles, were the first of the day to be warmly greeted by the Darcys regardless of their having traveled only a quarter mile as their closest neighbors. Of great import was the news that her brother-in-law had received a letter from an old friend, Kalon of London Square, soliciting his interest in the Chair of Commons recently vacated by a Sir Malcom Boyd. After some minutes of highly animated discussion, several mem ers of the militia party appeared at the doorstep including Captain Denny and a few familiar faces from their former station in Longbourn. Their presence at Pemberly was singular, but a few of them were close to the Bingleys having attended a ball at Charles\ufffd former residence of Netherfield and were well known to Lizzy\ufffds younger sisters. They were summarily put to work supervising the last minute decorations. Among the arrivals later in the day were the Gardiners, Elizabeth\ufffds cherished aunt and uncle who also exhibited some familiarity with the facilities having visited the house several times since the wedding. Of great surprise, however, even with the issue of a very cordial invitation, was the arrival of Lady Catherine de Bourgh of Rosings\ufffd Park, William\ufffds aunt, who had avowed never again to set foot at Pemberly owing to the disadvantagement of Elizabeth\ufffds relations. She was accompanied by her daughter and Colonel Fitzwilliam, a cousin of her husband. Elizabeth regretted that the Collins\ufffd were nable to join the party due to the illness of Charolette\ufffds father Sir William Lucas. Lastly of import were Mr. Bingley\ufffds sister Caroline with Mr. and Mrs. Hurst, her constant companions now that they had taken up residence in London. Noticeably absent in the guest list of 400 persons was Elizabeth\ufffds sister Lydia Wickham and her husband now occupying residence over 200 miles to the North. It was not, however, for the reason of distance that an invitation had not been forthcoming, rather it was for the numerous improprieties in the pursuit of fortune and pleasure which had offended most who knew Mr. Wickham, and his attempt to disparage William prior to his marriage to Elizabeth. At precisely 8 P.M. the ball was in maximum attendance with introductions complete and music in full discourse. Many sites of highly engaged conversations testified to the uncomfortable distances between old friends and the delightful atmosphere of this long awaited reunion. Of especial attention was the presence of Georgiana, Lizy\ufffds sister-in-law who at age 17 still made her primary residence at Pemberly in the care of the Darcys. A small crowd had formed about the married couple; many were curious ab ut recent developments and life at the estate. It was a joy to both to relate the adventures of their deepening mutual aw"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "Caroline: I shall have to conker this! LOL Caroline. Do you think that's what he said after his fencing bout? Is that why he had to rush off to Pemberley??? Thanks for your kind comments - I did see them earlier and Amy came up with the question \"Conkers\"??"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (23:24)", "body": "Cassandra - great! Thank you so much for having Mr. Bennet live. Can't wait for the reconciliation. Ann2 - I so enjoy your stories. It give me an opportunity to re-live the movie with you wonderful prose. Tom - Welcome. Really enjoyed your story; can't wait to hear more."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (12:19)", "body": "Explanation of the \"Conkers\" comment The horse-chestnut tree, though not native to Britain, is commonly found there. The golf-ball sized seeds, shiny, brown and irresistable to children, are often strung on strings just as Inko describes in her story, but rather than use them as weopons for catching small game, they are used for a game called \"conkers.\" One player holds his string at arm's length, whilst the other takes a swing with his, and tries to hit his other opponents conker. A broken conker is the loser. Pickling the conker hardens it(but is cheating!-just the thing Wickham might do.)\"Conker\" is thought to derive from the word \"conquer\" I think that Darcy's line\"I shall conquer this\" and his later reference to the horse-chestnut tree is a pun made by Andrew Davies. I hesitated to put it on Arnessa's Pun topic because it's not Austen's words and I am still not sure if there isn't more of the joke in the screenplay yet. end of boring lecture Tom- I was really intrigued with your story.Please continue!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (12:43)", "body": "I now see the light, thanks Caroline"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (17:52)", "body": "Here's another one for all my fellow Knightley-lovers. Cautionary note: I use actual wording from Jane Austen's Emma here throughout the story. I am not in any way attempting to plagiarize -- it's all in fun to support my supposition that both Emma and Mr. Knightley were going through hell! I started to italicize those sections, but it got to be difficult when I was only using fragments, so I left them out. If you haven't read Emma for awhile, have fun finding them! Mr. Knightley'\ufffds Side of the Story Mr. Knightley immediately got up, and in a manner decidedly graver than usual, said, \"I would not go away without seeing you, but I have no time to spare, and therefore must now be gone directly. I am going to London, to spend a few days with John and Isabella. Have you any thing to send or say, besides the `love,' which nobody carries?\" \"Nothing at all. But is not this a sudden scheme?\" asked Emma. \"Yes--rather--I have been thinking of it some little time.\" Though he must go to London, it was very much against his inclination, that he left home at all. He found himself unable to linger any longer, and immediately took his leave. Once outside, he mounted his horse and rode off at a gallop. Mr. Knightley was a man used to being in control of his emotions, and that made his present circumstance all the more difficult. He had cared about Emma for so long that it was instinct to him, but his affections were now somehow altered, almost without his notice. The very real probability of Emma'\ufffds marrying Frank Churchill caused him great consternation -- not just for her happiness, but also for his own. He suddenly realized that he had never before considered even the idea of her marrying, which was foolish indeed. Of course she would marry, but when she married...these words gave his thoughts pause, and a few moments were then sufficient for making him acquainted with his own heart --\ufffd it darted through him with the speed of an arrow that Emma must marry no one but himself! But that was now impossible. How could he have been so blind to the change in his feelings for Emma? -- the blunders, the blindness of his own head and heart! To understand, thoroughly understand, his own heart was the first endeavor. How long had Emma been so dear to him, as every feeling declared her now to be? He had loved her and watched over her from a girl, but till now that he was threatened with its loss, he had never known how much of his happiness depended on Emma'\ufffds place in his life. He now saw that he had been in love with Emma and jealous of Frank, from about the same period, one sentiment having probably enlightened him to the other. Yet, was it new for any thing in this world to be unequal, uncertain, incongruous, or for chance and circumstance (as second causes) to direct the human fate? He had no hope, nothing to deserve the name of hope, that he could have that sort of affection from her as that was now in question. That he was wretched, and should probably find this day to be the beginning of wretchedness, was the only certainty he could own. ________________________________________________________________________ Mr. Knightley reached his brother John'\ufffds house at dusk, in as much turmoil as when he had left Hartfield that morning. He quickly repressed those feelings, however, became his gentlemanly self, and greeted his family with real warmth. The exchange of news with John and Isabella, the bustle of his beloved nieces and nephews, soothed his anxious heart greatly -- and he soon settled into the rhythm of their busy household. Even this respite from Highbury was not devoid of distressing elements, however: Isabella was simply an inferior version of Emma, and therefore that dear person was both on his mind and, in one sense, in front of him, at all times. He could not forget her for a moment. Some days into his visit, Mr. Knightley was sitting alone in the house when John entered. Isabella and the children were out in the city, and the solitude had given free rein to Mr. Knightley'\ufffds melancholy thoughts. Although John had previously felt that something was amiss, he had not wanted to interfere unless his advice was solicited; now, his concern for his elder brother caused him to overcome his hesitations and speak. \"George,\" he began carefully, \"you know I would never impose upon you, but if there is anything you wish to discuss with me, I would be a most willing ear.\" On any other occasion, Mr. Knightley would have graciously demurred, but John had found him with his spirits so low that he welcomed a confidant -- he bespoke his despair. \"It is Emma, John; I confess she is much in my thoughts.\" John, who had suspected this attachment for some time -- clearly far longer than his brother -- still kept his silence regarding it. \"And what is it that troubles you about Emma?\" \"In truth, John, I know not where to begin.\" But begin he did, first telling John about Emma'\ufffds apparent attachment to Frank Churchill and the manner in which sh"}, {"response": 84, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (19:11)", "body": "Susan that is excellent. Out does Ms Aylmer by miles."}, {"response": 85, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (19:40)", "body": "Susan -- I like it immensely, truly I do! :-)"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (21:16)", "body": "Yea Susan! You know, I find it most interesting how all of our stories dwell on the man's point of view, on the torments and longings and romantic yearnings of the man. One might think that we would most readily identify with the woman in the story and what she is feeling. I suppose it does make sense though...we are creating the kind of men that we wish would fall in love with us...a completely fictional character... (but I'm not bitter!) ;-)"}, {"response": 87, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (21:30)", "body": "Oh, Cheryl, how could anyone ever think you bitter! :-) But, as for why the stories are focusing on the hero's feelings, is it not partly because JA primarily focused on the heroine's? We want to know the heroes as well as we know the heroines -- when I think of P&P (the novel) I always feel like I have both characters in my head, that I feel both sets of emotions, etc. I like trying to get the other side of the story. One of the things I really liked about Darcy's Story was the time at Hunsford where Darcy sees Elizabeth as being attracted to him. It was nicely done."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (22:08)", "body": "\"One of the things I really liked about Darcy's Story was the time at Hunsford...\" Don't you meen Hunston?"}, {"response": 89, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "Not sure if this is \"fan fiction\", but here's a cute post from AUSTEN-L: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:26:15 EST From: Jane Amara Emma and Darcy: what a pair. I think they would be charming (if borderline insufferable snobs) together. That would leave Mr. Knightley free to marry Anne Eliot, who with her love of living in the country would be very happy. How could they not love each other? Then, it's an easy jump to Elizabeth Bennet and Captain Wentworth, and just think how much Mrs. Bennet would like his uniform. At least they could sail away and escape her. Lizzie might just be Louisa Musgrove with a brain. This new pairing keeps everyone at the social status they started with, interestingly, though that was not the goal. Jane Amara Cambridge, Massachusetts"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (23:32)", "body": "as for why the stories are focusing on the hero's feelings, is it not partly because JA primarily focused on the heroine's? I know that's the case for me, Kathleen."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (23:46)", "body": "Jane, you horrible thing! ; ) How very disconcerting. I love it."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (00:18)", "body": "I like the idea of Elinore and Brandon, myself. All through the book and the movie I was hoping they would come to their senses and fall in love with one another."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (06:18)", "body": "I do not think she has ever in her life considered me as other than a friend. Poor dear Mr Knigthley.... His horse was a good one and surefooted, and he let him have his head, even occasionally spurring him on.He could not reach his destination quickly enough, and this rain and mud would occasion a brief stop at Donwell for a change of clothing, which his anxious spirits would ill allow Susan, I like the way this gets my imagination working. Well done! And Tom that bit about the rain on the Pemberley pond is great IMHO. Welcome. Inko and Caroline such fun to learn about concker. And Darcy thinking of it as a way out"}, {"response": 94, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (08:30)", "body": "Henry, glad you put up that post-most unsettling, but a hoot, all the same. susan, thank you for the breakfast reading.......and don't worry about the plaigirising(Who can spell on sundays)I twas fun looking them up!"}, {"response": 95, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (22:55)", "body": "Anne is back again! Anne, The Real Story Chapter 3 Anne rushed downstairs, on purpose to tell her mother right away about her lesson, and to thank her for giving her such a great teacher, but she had to wait till after supper, because Lady Catherine was very strict with the rule \"Little girls are to be seen and NOT heard\", so supper passed slowly to poor Anne. Lady Catherine spoke a great deal, about Mrs. King's visit, and how clever Mrs. King thought her to be, and how Mrs. King was jealous of Rosings Park, and how she won the card game against Mrs. King and Mrs. King her and Mrs. King there, which seemed like absolute nonsense to Anne, who would give England to speak, but couldn't, because her mother and Mrs. Jenkinson wouldn't allow it. Supper, however, was over at last, and Anne could finally talk, she began with this strange speech, forgetting grammar or politeness: \"Oh Mamma! So very dearly thank you for givin' me a governess! I learned so much! 'Bout spellin' an' readin' an' I wrote my name six time and Miss Williams said I'm cle'er! And I read nice story! 'twas very jolly! Stay will she Mamma? Please? I'm sure she can teach me, I'm sure! Oh Mamma, Please!\" \"Miss Anne, you must remember you are sick! Don't talk so much, for heaven's sake! And leave the room immediately, sick people can't stay so long out of bed!\" So Anne couldn't tell anything about her lesson, she was very disappointed, as you may easily imagine. Years afterwards, Anne always wondered how she couldn't realize her good fortune. She, however, obeyed immediately and went upstairs, and hoped the morrow would come soon, not knowing the power of the sorrow and terror her young heart was to recive. To be continued..."}, {"response": 96, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (00:32)", "body": "Oh, Aylet I feel so worried. What evil things will happen the next morning? I feel I would want to talk to Lady Catherine and teach her to be grateful for having this lovely little girl..."}, {"response": 97, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "Ayelet, make sure that monstrous mother gets her deserts, won't you!Poor Anne!"}, {"response": 98, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "Having received some encouragement, here is the next chapter. CRISIS AT PEMBERLY CHAPTER TWO \ufffdI understand that you are here directly from Rosings?\ufffd began Caroline Bingley as the dance got underway. \ufffdYes,\ufffd replied Colonel Fitzwilliam as the next opportunity to speak availed, \ufffdI spend more time there now that Darcy spends less\ufffd. If the truth be known it was not Mr. Darcy\ufffds absence that was demanding more of the Colonel\ufffds time, rather the dire financial status of Rosings. As with many estates the cost of maintenance and standard of living were tailored to the size of its trust income; which in the instance of Sir Lewis de Bourgh was derived in part from the profit of his shipping business. Two threats arising subsequent to his death were now upon Rosings Park. First the income and death taxes of 1798 had become a substantial degradation to the profits of de Bourgh Shipping. The general community of estate owners was becoming more vocal towards setting aside this penalty for successful achievement, but no relief was yet in sight. Second, Lady Catherine had endowed several, indeed, eleven young ladies in the past five years to ensure that her tutelage resulted in the proper introduction of her prot\ufffdg\ufffds to society. Unfortunately this sum had grown to nearly ten thousand pounds. \ufffdIf another candidate is supported, I\ufffdm afraid, Lady Catherine will have to give up much of her style of living to continue at Rosings,\ufffd he pondered. \ufffdI should so like to see the manor, \ufffd continued Ms. Bingley, \ufffdas Darcy has often mentioned many of its particulars.\ufffd The Colonel was not unaffected by this opening from a handsome woman of taste. \ufffdWell, if you are really interested, may I be so bold as to suggest that there is a seat available on our carriage returning tomorrow. I would be delighted to show you the grounds myself.\ufffd \ufffdYou are most kind, sir,\ufffd \ufffd I should look forward to the experience and will speak to my sister directly that I have made new arrangements for the return trip.\ufffd The dance had now ended and Colonel Fitzwilliam made his way towards his aunt to describe his new accommodation. \ufffdI see you have some potential my dear, and could benefit from a month at Rosings.\ufffd said Lady de Bourgh as the interview with Kitty Bennet concluded. It had been quiet at the manor for some time, lacking a new acquaintance since Elizabeth and Mira Lucas had been there and now the Collins\ufffd were away. Turning to Mrs. Bennet she inquired, \ufffdWould Miss Bennet be available to return with me tomorrow. There is a seat unoccupied in my carriage.\ufffd Mrs. Bennet was satisfied beyond her expectations. \ufffdOh, yes mum, her things are all here at Pemberly as we have finished our stay of two weeks.\ufffd \ufffd I will inform Mr. Bennet of your kindness and opportunity, \ufffd as the two hastily departed. In their excitement the approaching Colonel Fitzwilliam was nearly caught off balance. Following the ensuing discussion, in which it was discovered that the carriage had been oversubscribed, Lady Catherine was outraged and commanded that the Colonel rescind his invitation. \ufffdPerhaps there is another solution,\ufffd he responded, \ufffdif Miss de Bourgh would consent to spend some time at Pemberly, I would speak with Darcy.\ufffd Mary de Bourgh of pale and reticent demeanor, showed interest in this suggestion for one of the few times in her existence under the oppressive parenting of her mother. \ufffdBut this can not be tolerated\ufffd \ufffdMrs. Jenkins would be out of sorts\ufffd \ufffdWho would see to my daughter\ufffds needs of health?\ufffd objected his aunt. On the other hand, the thought of lively conversation at Rosings and a new Project was attractive. Yet she could not sit well with the thought of approaching Elizabeth Darcy with such a proposal. At last she relented, \ufffdVery well, I shall speak again with Mrs. Bennet and request her to forward the need for accommodation to Mrs. Darcy.\ufffd Mrs. Bennet, upon hearing the terms of the long sought tutelage, was also reluctant to confront her daughter with the requested favour given their somewhat strained relationship. Undaunted, however, she spoke with Mr. Bennet. \ufffdMr. Bennet, you must ask Elizabeth to invite Miss de Bourgh for a month at Pemberly so that Kitty may return to Rosings with Lady de Bourgh. It is a good circumstance to improve herself at Rosings Park.\ufffd \ufffdWill she be less silly in the pursuit of gentlemen as a consequence?\ufffd was his reply. Nevertherless the thought of further peace in the Bennet household was an advantage not to be overlooked. \ufffdMr. Bennet it is our duty as parents secure any opportunity to complete the education of our children!\ufffd her voice rose. \ufffdYes, my dear,\ufffd he answered, \ufffdand I will attempt the entreaty, but why is it dependent upon Miss de Bourgh\ufffds visit to Derbyshire?\ufffd The added explanation of Mr. Bingley\ufffds sister\ufffds invitation by the Colonel was further reason, for it indirectly benefited his favorite son-in-law. Thus armed he set off to find his daughter. \ufffdDarcy, I have a favour to ask that I may impose on your magnanimity, \ufffd Colonel Fitzwilliam"}, {"response": 99, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:46)", "body": "...Anne, who would give England to speak... (Yes, but how would she ever get a word in edgewise!) I'm all anticipation, Ayelet! Tom, thanks for a very entertaining sequel!"}, {"response": 100, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (13:39)", "body": "Mary de Bourgh of pale and reticent demeanor, showed interest in this suggestion for one of the few times in her existence under the oppressive parenting of her mother. Did you mean Anne?"}, {"response": 101, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (14:50)", "body": "Dina: Yes, thanks. Do the quote marks come through or do they show up as numbers 2 and 3 (It may be an artifact of pasting from Word)?"}, {"response": 102, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (16:13)", "body": "Have enjoyed everything I've read, but am having a problem getting responses from about 75 to 100? Cassandra did you ever finish that great story? I only found it today, all these other poor people must be on pins and needles!! Capital idea on this BB -- so much talent. thanks"}, {"response": 103, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (16:37)", "body": "Tom, you are right- punctuation by numbers. Still readable though."}, {"response": 104, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (16:38)", "body": "Yes Tom, they do not seem to work .I use the single apostrophe under the asterisk...I have printed your 'Chrisis two' and shall read it tonight; am looking forward to it.Anne (Yeago) all stories are collected at Derbyshire Writers Guild linked on top of this conference(= Austen )page."}, {"response": 105, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "Ann2- are we posting at the same time?"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (17:43)", "body": "Hi Caroline, I should not be here at all..way too late."}, {"response": 107, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:58)", "body": "Yeago-You are a dear!!! As soon as I get my \"rise of the Parti Quebecois\" paper finished, I'm going to return to Darcy and Elizabeth."}, {"response": 108, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (19:45)", "body": "well...OK (darn) first things first!:-) I've printed a number of stories already! Good thing we've got fresh ink!"}, {"response": 109, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (20:42)", "body": "Parti Quebecois! Pray don't even mention that odious group!"}, {"response": 110, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (10:34)", "body": "CRISIS AT PEMBERLY CHAPTER THREE The music played until long after midnight. The rest of the ball was largely uneventful. For those who made note: Captain Denny danced four times with Giorgiana and Colonel Fitzwilliam three with Caroline. Eventually most of the guests returned to their accommodations in the house; a few, such as Mr. Hurst were in such a stupor that they had to be aided by servants in reclaiming their room. The party of militia left shortly after midnight for their temporary encampment near Lambton. Soon the manor was qui t and Jane had an opportunity to speak with Elizabeth in private while William and Charles sat in the next room. \ufffdLizzy, you must not speak of my pregnancy to anyone until Charles has left for London in two days. I will not have him distracted or give reason to delay his trip.\ufffd \ufffdOf course if that is your wish, but this is cause for celebration and good spirits not worry or distraction.\ufffd was her response. \ufffd I am always here to support your needs and insist that you come to Pemberly while our husbands are way.\ufffd \ufffdThank you, Lizzy I shall look forward to it and I will try to help you with Miss de Bourgh if she is truly as much an invalid as you make out.\ufffd By midday most of the guests had departed including an emotional farewell with the Bennet\ufffds. Mrs. Bennet thanked Elizabeth many times for the inconvenience which had provided Kitty with the visit to Rosings. Her father nodded solemnly knowing the degree of imposition. Only Mary who also \ufffdlooked forward to peace at home\ufffd seemed unaffected by the arrangement. The de Bourgh carriage had left earlier with its crew of new acquaintances. With the departures completed the remaining household was too exhausted t plan immediate ventures and Darcy withdrew to insure the proper wardrobe for his stay in London although unlike Bingley\ufffds it was only to be for one week. Miss de Bourgh was left to be entertained by Giorgiana and a dialog appeared to have begun. At three o\ufffdclock Giorgiana requested a carriage to show Miss de Bourgh the grounds and partake of the fresh air. Elizabeth waved goodbye and returned to her husband for the short time remaining until his departure. The carriage traversed many of the estate\ufffds private roads often barely as wide as their vehicle. After some time Giorgiana directed the driver to a small bluff which provided an excellent view of Pemberly to the east and overlooked its expanse all the way to Lambton to the west. \ufffdIsn\ufffdt this a wonderful spot to experience Derbyshire,\ufffd she exclaimed. Even Miss de Bourgh smiled as she gazed into the distance. \ufffdYou can even see the Militia encampment at the edge of Lambton,\ufffd Giorgiana added. Indeed, in the far distance one of the soldiers could be seen taking a mount and ridding in the direction of their location. By seven that evening the light of day was fading as the long days of summer were nearly at an end. Both William and Elizabeth expressed some consternation as the carriage finally arrived at the front entrance. Giorgiana apologized several times and claimed that together with the beautiful sights and engaging conversation all measure of time had been lost. The following morning Charles appeared and after some regretful expressions toward the upcoming separation, he and William set off for London. The Manor again grew still without the conversation or traffic of the prior nights. Miss de Bourgh and Giorgiana had a late breakfast without much discussion but Lizzy could detect a degree of agitation in Giorgiana, especially when talk of the plans for the day were postponed until Miss de Bourgh could recover from a morning headache, undoubtedly from too much ex osure the day before. Giorgiana had just exited the room when a message was delivered to Lizzy\ufffds table. \ufffdThis note arrived moments ago, madam\ufffd reported her servant Thomas Reynolds. The message was a barely readable scrawl from the Bingley residence. \ufffdMy mistress has fallen and is not able to move. Please come at once. Jonathon. \ufffd With great distress Elizabeth called for her outer garments and a carriage. \ufffdTell Giorgiana where I have gone and send for Doctor Gracepool in Lambton. The trip to the Bingley house was made in record time. Rushing through the entrance, she noticed several bags packed near the foot of the stairs. And there, just descending was Jane. \ufffdJane thank God you\ufffdre all right. I came as soon as the message arrived.\ufffd Jane looked surprised and puzzled, \ufffd Why Lizzy I was just about to leave for Pemberly. What message \ufffd Elizabeth stopped. With a great effort to calm herself she handed the note to Jane. \ufffdWhy this is a forgery. Who would play such a mean trick?\ufffd Lizzy suddenly blurted \ufffdwe must return to Pemberly at once!\ufffd The manor was deserted as the two women returned and quickly entered the Great Hall. \ufffdThomas, where are Giorgiana and Miss de Bourgh?\ufffd Elizabeth demanded. \ufffdMiss de Bourgh is resting upstairs in her bedroom, but Miss Darcy left for Lambton shortly after your departure. She left a letter for "}, {"response": 111, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (15:04)", "body": "Elizabeth and Darcy: A Sequel Part 6 \"Why Mrs Darcy!\" exclaimed Mrs Reynolds. \"We did not expect you until next week. The master informed us that he would be escorting you back from Longbourn.\" \"Yes-I know, Mrs Reynolds. But, I could not bear to be away from Pemberley a moment longer! I cannot tell you how much I have missed the grounds and my beautiful gardens. Lowering her eyelashes and subduing her voice, Elizabeth further added: \"If anything the distance and time have only made me appreciate them all the more.\" Failing to detect the change in Lizzy's tone, as well as the deeper meaning of her words, Mrs Reynolds continued: \"Mrs Darcy, it is indeed a pleasure to see you. And may I inquire M'am after your father's health. He was in my prayers constantly.\" \"Thank-you, Mrs Reynolds,\" Elizabeth softly said, squeazing the elder woman's hands. \"you are very kind. My father is quite well. His spirits and health improve every day.\" \"Glad to hear it Ma'am. But, come. Let me take your things. You must be exhausted from your journey. I know Miss Georgiana will be delighted to see you...\" As if hearing Mrs Reynolds' words, Georgiana Darcy swept down the stairs. \"Elizabeth!\" she cried happily. \"I thought I heard your voice.\" Lizzy gazed affectionately at her sister-in-law. Indeed, as Mr Darcy had long wished, Georgiana had become as dear to Elizabeth as her own sister, Jane. She had heartily missed her. Their attachment was sincere, warm and all-encompassing. At the crucial age of eighteen, Georgiana Darcy was at the height of her bloom; her delicate features, flawless ivory skin and crystal-blue eyes were admired wherever she went. As Mrs Reynolds often reflected, Miss Georgiana was as handsome and talented a young lady as there ever was. Furthermore,under Elizabeth's tutelage and example, Georgiana had begun to emerge from her painful shyness and characteristic reserve. She was no longer afraid of making her opinions known or entertaining guests at the piano orte. Georgiana was as open and warm, as she was lovely. \"Elizabeth-you do not know how much I have missed you. Pemberley has been so desolate without you. You must come to the music room and see the new music that Fitzwilliam brought from London. As you well know, he is too kind. I don't think there was ever a kinder, more loving brother. And, he told me that he means to have a ball at Pemberley, with your permission and assistance, of course.\" \"A ball-that sounds delightful,\" Lizzy added, as Georgiana led her into the music room. But, tell me Georgiana-where is Fitzwilliam?\" \"He was called to town on business. We expect him back tomorrow. None of us had any idea that you were planning on returning to Pemberley, so early.\" \"A sudden scheme of mine,\" Lizzy playfully retorted. \"Although, it seems to have had far from the desired effect,\" she silently added. Instantly deciding that it was better to change the subject, Lizzy said instead: \"How is Sir David, Georgiana? Is the young man as violently in love with you as he was when I left?\" Blushing deeply, Georgiana whispered: \"Oh Lizzy, he has asked for my hand!\" \"Oh Georgiana-I could not be more pleased and happy for you! Has he spoken to Darcy?\" \"There really hasn't been time. Brother has hardly been home a week and...\" \"Georgiana-you cannot believe that Darcy would refuse him. I have heard his speak on many occasions of his fondness for Sir David. His manners and sincere attachment to you are undeniable.\" \"Yes. But, Elizabeth-you know his reserved disposition. He is almost too in awe of Fitzwilliam to ask. I know this is rather an odd request, but we would bith appreciate it if you spoke to him first. I know Brother still thinks of me as a child. And, Dearest Elizabeth-we all know that he cannot refuse you anything....\""}, {"response": 112, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (16:07)", "body": "And, Dearest Elizabeth-we all know that he cannot refuse you anything....\" No, indeed! Two great stories, and Georgiana in both of them!Thank you, both of you!"}, {"response": 113, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (16:25)", "body": "yea, Cass! But get to the reunion girl! (and post it in drool...) ;-)"}, {"response": 114, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (16:35)", "body": "]yea, Cass! But get to the reunion girl! (and post it in drool...) ;-) Yeah, what she said, Cass."}, {"response": 115, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (17:19)", "body": "Cass you are such a tease! Both new chapters (Tom's and Cass) great!"}, {"response": 116, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (21:07)", "body": "Tom, Cass -- WONDERFUL! We are so lucky to be the recipients of your towering talent! (I do heartily second Cheryl's most reasonable request.) :)"}, {"response": 117, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Yes-I'm a tease! But, I promise not to keep you in suspense much longer. I'll probably post a full-blown version in drool and a tamer one here."}, {"response": 118, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (22:19)", "body": "Anne, The Real Story Chapter 4 Anne woke with sunrise, dressed quickly and waited to Miss Williams, who came rather quickly, although it seemed like years to poor Anne, and the French lesson began: they learned French for over 3 hours, and when Miss Williams decided they had enough of it, although Anne objected, and begged for \"Just another story\", she declared: \"No, not another story, dear, but something better\" \"Better?\" was the careful, doubtful answer. \"Yes, much better, I am going to teach you to play\" Anne stood with her mouth open for full 4 minutes, then she asked, still not sure: \"Play? Play the piano? Really, truly? \"Of course! And immediately, because time is running out faster than the wind\" Miss Williams looked amused, and the lesson began, Miss Williams had her own way of teaching, a quiet and gentle, yet lively, sweet way, which always proved itself, before the hour was out, Anne knew the names of the notes and which key presented each, after another hour, she knew to play a little, short song, which delighted her little heart, and she played it over and over again, until even Miss Williams said gently, \"That's enough, dear, will like to learn another song?\" Anne certainly did. \"So, here, look at this nice song, it's even longer than the other, 20 notes!\" Miss Williams counted hastily. So they learned to play it, and after another hour, Anne could play it quite perfectly, when she suddenly noticed that somebody was climbing the staircase, the steps came closer, and Anne saw her mother standing angrily in the doorway. To be continued..."}, {"response": 119, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (22:27)", "body": "That Lady D -- what a spoilsport, Ayelet!"}, {"response": 120, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (09:01)", "body": "Darcy withdrew to insure the proper wardrobe for his stay in London so he is that particular Tom ..., something of a snob, eyh? He'll have to search for his sister all over the world now or...? I am so glad Anne met with Miss Williams, I truely am. I have missed the grounds and my beautiful gardens. Cassandra, that sounds like a quotation from the bible, beautiful! Will you let us overhear her 'talking' him into accepting it? Thanks for enjoyable reading."}, {"response": 121, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (10:38)", "body": "Thank you all for your encouregement (spelling?), you do not have the slightest clue about how it helps!"}, {"response": 122, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:33)", "body": "Ayelet, I really enjoy your filling me in about Anne. I, like others I'm afraid, tend to discount her. I'm happy that you're sharing your perspective with us!"}, {"response": 123, "author": "haker", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (13:10)", "body": "Hi folks. Sorry I haven't been able to update the Guild lately. I am presently without a computer (I'm at an internet cafe at the moment). My modem and my laptop are refusing to speak to one another, and after several days of trying to mediate the dispute, I finally was forced to call in the experts. My computer is currently in the shop. I hop to get it back soon, but probably not until the middle of next week at least. I'll post your stories to the guild as soon as I can."}, {"response": 124, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "CRISIS AT PEMBERLY CHAPTER FOUR All thought of Georgiana was set aside as the driver, Elizabeth and Jane raced to the prone figure. With some difficulty Dr. Gracepool was lifted into the carriage. The driver released the buggy\ufffds horse as there was no sense in righting the vehicle since the left wheel had been shattered. Lastly Jane retrieved the medical bag as the carriage was turned around and they sped off towards Lambton. Gracepool\ufffds colour was ashen and they were all dripping wet. The road had become even less passable and the traverse took nearly an hour. Darkness was falling as the Doctor was finally placed in his bed with the help of his wife and son. Nothing more could be done until morning. At Mrs. Gracepool\ufffds insistence Lizzy and Jane were provided dry clothing and hot soup while the driver made for their accommodation at the Inn. Only after taking up residence there for the night did Elizabeth consider the delay this incident had introduced in apprehending the errant couple. \ufffdI hope they are as indisposed as we are,\ufffd she indicated to Jane. Jane was more concerned, however, that she was the cause of Doctor Gracepool\ufffds misfortune, \ufffdIf I had but come an hour earlier to Pemberly this event would never have occurred.\ufffd \ufffdJane, you were not the least accountable for these actions. Better to put our time into planning what must be done for their recovery,\ufffd Lizzy admonished. They talked for a while. Jane had barely spoken the words \ufffdWe have had enough excitement for one day\ufffd when a commotion was heard below followed shortly by a knock at their door. It was Robert Reynolds, son of Thomas, who anxiously reported, \ufffdExcuse me ma\ufffdam I have been seeking your place in Lambton for most of the afternoon. My father has been unable to locate Miss de Bourgh. When he went to inform her of your leaving for Lambton he discovered her room to be empty. All of her bags were removed. We searched the house and grounds. No transportation had been requested or taken from the stable.\ufffd The news made them both step back. Following their recovery, Elizabeth bade the lad to take food downstairs and stay the night at the Inn. After the door was closed, Jane spoke first, \ufffdWhere could she have gone? Can she be involved in this scheme?\ufffd Lizzy followed, Has Captain Denny seduced her as well? Perhaps the lure of adventure and freedom from Lady Catherine gave her courage to give up her favorable position at Rosings. But what excess baggage for the couple.\ufffd Jane added, \ufffdthere must have been a rendezvous on the grounds soon after Georgiana left the house.\ufffd The sun rose at last at the de Bourgh Manor. The previous day\ufffds confinement by the abominable weather, had, nevertheless, given opportunity for the visitors to improve their acquaintance. Indeed, Caroline\ufffds opinion of Colonel Fitzwilliam had steadily increased as their experiences and preferences were related. Kitty had found solace in the attention of Lady de Bourgh, but her enthusiasm in providing accounts of life at Longbourn was eventually curtailed when Lady Catherine admonished, \ufffdYou will, in time, be given instruction by Mrs. Jenkins in the appropriate topics of conversation.\ufffd By nightfall it had been agreed that at first clearing a picnic should be scheduled to fully appreciate the grounds of Rosings Park. So it was that provisions were prepared early in the morning of the following day. Kitty was, with some difficulty, exercising patience to be off when at the last minute the Colonel remembered a business issue which could not be postponed. He begged a short deference and retreated to the study. At 11 o\ufffdclock the impatient mood of the party was interrupted by the arrival of an express from Mr. Darcy. The Colonel was summoned and upon opening the dispatch read: My Dear Cousin: I have received word from Elizabeth that Georgiana has eloped. A letter was discovered early yesterday which indicated that she and Captain Denny intend to abandon England at first opportunity. My quick review of the Times has revealed two immediate possibilities: the merchantman \ufffdCarlisle\ufffd departs today for Halifax from London Dock at 1400. The American Black Ball \ufffdOceana\ufffd leaves Plymouth for Boston Saturday next at 1700. I will attend to the embarkment of the Carlisle and expect you to make haste to Plymouth to do the same with the Oceana. If they are not in my custody, I will join you at Plymouth on Saturday. Godspeed! William \ufffdGood God!\ufffd was the Colonel\ufffds response. Caroline rushed to his side and reread the letter, \ufffdGeorgiana has eloped!\ufffd Lady Catherine was stern in her reaction, \ufffdThis Captain Denny must be dealt with in the severest terms. You must employ every means to prevent their departure.\ufffd The Colonel nodded, \ufffdI will leave at once. Bring me my horse!\ufffd It was at best a two day ride at the pace of an express for the 200 mile journey. He could reach Plymouth, if no obstacles were encountered by midday Saturday. Within minutes the Colonel was astride his mount and disappearing to the west. It was fortu"}, {"response": 125, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (14:27)", "body": "Oh, poor Ann. I hope you don't spend a fortune in there. How do cybercafes work, anyway? I have never been to one."}, {"response": 126, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "Dear Ann, we miss you and wont be able to meet in chat for some days then. Are there no libraries that provide internet access for free?"}, {"response": 127, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (16:35)", "body": "Ann, I am sorry to hear about your computer and modem having a spat. I had hoped that you got the job and were just too busy getting settled in."}, {"response": 128, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (18:59)", "body": "Ann Haker- my sympathies are with you! I think I would feel like I was missing a limb! Ann2- Dearest, I have been trying to e-mail you, but I think your Spring address is wrong.Can you contact me? Tom, I am on the edge of my seat! Where the heck is Georgiana?"}, {"response": 129, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "Yes, Tom, you're getting pretty good at those cliffhangers!"}, {"response": 130, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (21:20)", "body": "Ann, deepest sympathy! I know how lost I'd be without my computer - it's a horrible feeling. Hope the shop is quick about it and gets it back to you in record time. Tom, please finish your stories - the suspense is killing us slowly!!;-)"}, {"response": 131, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "Oh, poor Ann!"}, {"response": 132, "author": "Karen", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (22:04)", "body": "Ayelet, Cassandra, Susan, Tom - thanks for these wonderful stories. Ann - I hope you get your computer back soon."}, {"response": 133, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "Tom, here's a hint -- before you post to this board, you might want to the your \"Smart Quotes\" off in your W.P. app. I think they're being translated as numbers!"}, {"response": 134, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (21:28)", "body": "that's \"turn off.\" Something about using 28.8 -- it keeps mysteriously 'losing' parts of my text. Anyone else experience this poltergeist from beyond?"}, {"response": 135, "author": "haker", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (13:02)", "body": "Thanks everybody. I am still computerless, but the techincian is working onit right now, so I hope to get it back soon. Amy, at this cafe there are four computers and you just tell the guy at the counter that you want to log on, then you sit down and surf. This is costing $7.50/hour, which is a little steep, but it is better than the withrawl symptoms. I'll post things to the guild as soon as I get my computer back."}, {"response": 136, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (13:40)", "body": "CRISIS AT PEMBERLY CHAPTER FIVE It was four days before they all convened at Rosings Park. Darcy had returned there seeking answers and to bring the unfortunate news of her daughter\ufffds flight to Lady Catherine. He had omitted Miss de Bourgh\ufffds absence from Pemberly in his letter to the Colonel so as not to disturb his aunt without resolution. But now the truth could no longer be hidden. After checking the passenger manifest of the Oceana to confirm that Captain Denny and Georgiana were not among the voyagers, he sent the news to Elizabeth and requested that she join him at Rosings. Jane had insisted on accompanying her and sent word to their parents of the developments. Upon hearing of her daughter\ufffds elopement, Lady Catherine had taken ill. The shock had kept her abed since and in her state she could be often heard emitting unintelligible outbursts. Following the arrival of the two women, the five: Elizabeth, Jane, William, Caroline and Kitty began a discussion in the sitting room. \ufffdCould this have been the Colonel\ufffds plan all along?\ufffd began Elizabeth, \ufffdHe and Anne, secretly in love, planning to have her remain at Pemberly after the ball so she could leave by the advantage of not having Lady Catherine\ufffds immediate discovery. But how could the Colonel have known that is aunt would play into his hand by her invitation to Kitty? Perhaps he intended to as another to Rosings besides Caroline and thereby over subscribe the carriage himself.\ufffd Jane added her concerns, \ufffdDo you think Miss de Bourgh confided in Georgiana or was it coincidence that they both vanished at first opportunity? By what means did she make the trip to Plymouth? Could Colonel Fitzwilliam have sent a carriage for her?\ufffd \ufffdI wonder if the picnic was a ruse,\ufffd said Caroline, \ufffdhow convenient that we were detained to wait for his last minute business detail andthat food was already prepared. But how could he have predicted Darcy\ufffds express? Maybe he was waiting for word from Anne and felt Darcy\ufffds actions warned that they were running out of time. Such strategy, and the servants claim to have known nothing of a romance here. And where are Georgiana and Captain Denny now?\ufffd Kitty volunteered, \ufffdPerhaps the tattered man was mistaken or worse, paid by Captain Denny to provide a false description.\ufffd \ufffdNo Kitty,\ufffd Elizabeth responded, \ufffdthat is insupportable. How could Denny know that Colonel Fitzwilliam was coming to Plymouth and if true, where would the Colonel be now?\ufffd \ufffdBut why then should Mrs. de Bourgh object to such a union once Lizzy and William were married?\ufffd Jane interjected. \ufffdThe Colonel is such a fine gentleman and would not this marriage preserve Rosings Park for Miss de Bourgh?\ufffd \ufffdPerhaps I can help there,\ufffd William began, \ufffdit is not widely known, but the business of Sir Lewis is on the verge of bankruptcy and there is not enough money left in the trust to save Rosings. My cousin does not have the income or resources to continue here. They could, I suppose, have a better chance together somewhere else.\ufffd \ufffdI think Lady Catherine will never leave this place,\ufffd added Lizzy. Darcy appeared to be resolute \ufffdNo and she will not have to by my account. \ufffd Following several hours of questions, most without answers, it was decided to return Kitty to Longbourn given Lady Catherine\ufffds condition. Caroline generously agreed to remain at Rosings until Mrs. de Bourgh\ufffds health was improved. A general alert had be published by Colonel Forster for the whereabouts of Captain Denny. The four departed the next day for Derbyshire by way of Heretford. The Party was received at Longbourn with concern and sympathy. Mrs. Bennet met them as they descended from the carriage. \ufffdOh Lizzy, William, you must be so distraught at the absence of your sister. We are all very disposed to provide you with any support we can. Poor Mrs. de Bourgh! Such a vexing circumstance! What irony that we have now both endured the elopement of a daughter. But I hope matters will work out as well for her as they have for my Lydia. Speaking of Lydia, Kitty, a letter arrived yesterd y from Newcastle.\ufffd Kitty quickly retreated upstairs to read the latest news from her sister and brother-in-law, for the Wickham\ufffds were far from frequent contact, still at Newcastle, 250 miles to the North. As they settled into the main room, Mr. Bennet consoled, \ufffdTerrible business! Terrible business! My, my, and not a clue as to their destination.\ufffd Darcy responded, \ufffdWe shall eventually track them down, I can assure you.\ufffd Turning to a more pleasant subject, Mr. Bennet inquired, \ufffdAnd have you heard from Charles? Has he been introduced in the Commons?\ufffd \ufffdI have not word from him,\ufffd William replied, \ufffdbut with his amiable nature I foresee no great difficulty in his election. He is very pleased and anxious to do well in Parliament. I believe the House of Commons will hold new member election tomorrow.\ufffd Suddenly the conversations were interrupted by the loud descent of someone hurrying downstairs. Kitty reappeared holding the letter from Lydia, \ufffdLizz"}, {"response": 137, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (14:05)", "body": "Amy, Thanks for the hint, I will look for Smart Quotes in Word 6.0 Ingrid, I appologize if the story is too long. It wasn't clear to me that there is a standing limit on story length and I hoped that you were enjoying the suspense. You're probably right that it is taking up too much space on the bulletin board."}, {"response": 138, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (15:17)", "body": "Tom, I like the suspense. Why do you call her Mrs. dB rather than Lady dB?"}, {"response": 139, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (15:53)", "body": "Tom - I was only teasing!! I actually like the suspense! And don't worry about long - have you seen \"Young Fitz\"? That's already up to Part 17 with three more parts due to go soon, and he's only 11 so far!!!;-)"}, {"response": 140, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (20:51)", "body": "Tom - there is no lower or upper limit - we would all rebel if there were. We are loving it all."}, {"response": 141, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (22:36)", "body": "Sorrry it took me long, but there's Anne. Beware, I'm planning at least 4 more chapters... Anne, The Real Story Chapter 5 Even then, Anne didn't understand the horrible meaning of that, and happily said: \"Ma- Your Ladyship, I mean. Look, I learned to play this song, isn't it a nice song?\" and began to play, unable to understand why Miss Williams became so pale and said \"Not now, dear\" She DID hear her mother sharply calling Miss Williams \"I need to talk with you, Miss Williams\" and then, she began to understand, and with a scream of horror, she held Miss Williams and said \"No! Your Ladyship, you can't send Miss Williams away, you can't! Please don't please!\" and tears burst out of her eyes. Miss Williams became even paler and said quietly: \"Anne, her ladyship will do what she chooses, I love to teach you, and would like very much to stay, but I'll obey to your mother, and I'm sure you would, too, like a good girl, be brave, dearest! Dry up your tears and smile, don't cry! There, here's my handkerchief! We shall meet again someday, I give you my word! Remember, be brave! You're a big girl, you can do without me, I'm sure, you know so much already, Au revoir!\" And Miss Williams came out of the room, leaving Anne weeping into the handkerchief. After Anne calmed down a little, and with great curiosity, she went out of the room and stood on the top of the staircase, so she was able to hear all her mother's speech: \"Why did you think I brought you here? Did I not make it clear enough? I told you to teach the child in a boring way, so she shall be vexed, and have none of those silly learning ideas! And what did you do, \"Madam\"? You thought her well! You even thought her to play! And I'm sure that if I wouldn't have stopped it, you would, in your rude manner, even teach her to dance!\" Here Miss Williams managed to say: \"But she has to find a husband, how would she, if she wouldn't know all this?\" That made the Lady only angrier, and she almost screamed: \"Have you forgot that she is already engaged to her cousin? She will need none of these! And what will French help her? Why does she have to know, as I already do, although no rude servant thought me, that \"Au revoir\" means piano?\" \"But Your Ladyship, Au revoir does not mean-\" \"How dare you answer, go out of this house at once!\" Miss Williams left, with only one smile to Anne, and a whisper: \"Be brave, dearest, god bless you!\" To be continued..."}, {"response": 142, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (22:46)", "body": "Ayelet, you're doing a super job. Au revoir=piano-----I was laughing out loud because I could just hear Lady C. say it!"}, {"response": 143, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (00:06)", "body": "Tom, Ayelet -- who needs to read books with you two around!"}, {"response": 144, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (06:51)", "body": "Ayelet, keep up the good work. I look forward to learning more about Anne."}, {"response": 145, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (08:46)", "body": "Rumor Revealed or Lady Catherine's Visit to Darcy Part 1. Darcy was in his study with Mr. Prescott, his man of affairs, going over several business propositions. It was around eight o'clock in the evening and the two men had just about finished their business. Suddenly, there was a disturbance outside the door. \"I will see my nephew. Now, Graves.\" Lady Catherine burst into the room as the butler opened the door. The two men rose. Lady Catherine looked over Mr. Prescott with disdain. She stared pointedly at Darcy. \"I will speak with you, Darcy. Alone,\" she added with emphasis. \"I was just leaving, madam,\" Mr. Prescott bowed to Lady Catherine and Darcy, before heading towards the door that Graves was still holding open. \"Would you care for some refreshment, Aunt?\" Darcy asked. \"No, I do not. I wish to speak to you on a very important matter. Procuring refreshments will only delay the matter.\" Darcy dismissed the butler. Graves bowed himself out, shutting the door quietly behind him. Darcy and Lady Catherine were alone in the room. \"Lady Catherine, please be seated,\" Darcy indicated a chair beside the fireplace and took the seat opposite. \"I have come to see you about a most unsavory rumor that has reached my ears,\" Lady Catherine began, looking at him expectantly. \"I am afraid that I know not of what you are referring,\" Darcy was mystified and somewhat unnerved. He sincerely hoped his role in the Wickham Affair had not become known to his aunt. Lady Catherine smiled triumphantly. \"I was sure that you would not countenance any pretensions put about by Miss Bennet. However much she might entertain the thought of being the next mistress of Pemberley, I knew that you would not......\" \"Am I to understand that you have heard a rumor to the effect that Miss Bennet and I are to marry?\" Darcy interrupted, very surprised by her statement. \"A rumor most likely started by Miss Bennet herself.\""}, {"response": 146, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (09:09)", "body": "Part 2 Darcy got up from his chair and went over to a crystal decanter that was sitting upon a small table against the wall. With his backed turned to his aunt, a derisive smile appeared upon his face. He could still remember Elizabeth's words of rejection at his first proposal. He poured himself a glass of wine. He turned to face his aunt. \"I believe it is highly unlikely that Miss Bennet would start such a rumor, madam.\" \"It is highly likely,\" stated Lady Catherine emphatically. \"Why, when I specifically asked Miss Bennet if she was engaged to you....\" \"You have been to see Miss Bennet?\" Darcy interrupted for the second time. Lady Catherine was not pleased. \"Darcy, stop interrupting. It is most rude. Yes, I have just come from Longbourn, I believe it is called. It is an estate of little consequence. I also had the misfortune to meet her mother and one of the sisters. They are not important, however.\" Darcy was trying to hide any signs of impatience from his expression. He badly wanted to interrupt his aunt yet again. He wanted, no needed , to know exactly what had passed between Miss Bennet and Lady Catherine. \"Miss Bennet is an impudent girl, she was certainly vexing. I am most seriously displeased to have made her acquaintance. If I had known she was so uncivil I would never have invited her to Rosings Park. To have my solicitude so little returned, to have my hospitality so poorly felt....She is a most ungrateful girl. Lady Catherine looked at her nephew. She could not tell by his expression what his thought were so she assumed that he was as indignate as herself. Satisfied that her words were having the desired affect, she leaned back in her chair and continued. \"Would you believe that she refused to acknowledge that she is unworthy to be your wife? As if such a match could ever be thought of. I was exceedingly angry with her when she denied any intention of declining your favor...\" A smile came involuntarily to Darcy's face at her last words. The smile was quickly hidden before his aunt could see it, though her continued diatribe against Miss Bennet was beginning to ware. \"...Though I do not believe even for a moment that you would consider making an offer to one such as her. And, as I am sure that you will make it clear that no importunities from one with such a family will be tolerated.\" Darcy had again composed his features so that none of his thoughts were readable upon his face. Lady Catherine rose from her chair. \"You must attend to this matter with all possible haste. You must obliterate this insupportable rumor.\" Lady Catherine's walking stick tapped the floor for added emphasis."}, {"response": 147, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (09:11)", "body": "Part 2 Darcy got up from his chair and went over to a crystal decanter that was sitting upon a small table against the wall. With his backed turned to his aunt, a derisive smile appeared upon his face. He could still remember Elizabeth's words of rejection at his first proposal. He poured himself a glass of wine. He turned to face his aunt. \"I believe it is highly unlikely that Miss Bennet would start such a rumor, madam.\" \"It is highly likely,\" stated Lady Catherine emphatically. \"Why, when I specifically asked Miss Bennet if she was engaged to you....\" \"You have been to see Miss Bennet?\" Darcy interrupted for the second time. Lady Catherine was not pleased. \"Darcy, stop interrupting. It is most rude. Yes, I have just come from Longbourn, I believe it is called. It is an estate of little consequence. I also had the misfortune to meet her mother and one of the sisters. They are not important, however.\" Darcy was trying to hide any signs of impatience from his expression. He badly wanted to interrupt his aunt yet again. He wanted, no needed , to know exactly what had passed between Miss Bennet and Lady Catherine. \"Miss Bennet is an impudent girl, she was certainly vexing. I am most seriously displeased to have made her acquaintance. If I had known she was so uncivil I would never have invited her to Rosings Park. To have my solicitude so little returned, to have my hospitality so poorly felt....She is a most ungrateful girl. Lady Catherine looked at her nephew. She could not tell by his expression what his thought were so she assumed that he was as indignate as herself. Satisfied that her words were having the desired affect, she leaned back in her chair and continued. \"Would you believe that she refused to acknowledge that she is unworthy to be your wife? As if such a match could ever be thought of. I was exceedingly angry with her when she denied any intention of declining your favor...\" A smile came involuntarily to Darcy's face at her last words. The smile was quickly hidden before his aunt could see it, though her continued diatribe against Miss Bennet was beginning to ware. \"...Though I do not believe even for a moment that you would consider making an offer to one such as her. And, as I am sure that you will make it clear that no importunities from one with such a family will be tolerated.\" Darcy had again composed his features so that none of his thoughts were readable upon his face. Lady Catherine rose from her chair. \"You must attend to this matter with all possible haste. You must obliterate this insupportable rumor.\" Lady Catherine's walking stick tapped the floor for added emphasis."}, {"response": 148, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (10:51)", "body": "Carolyn, this is just how I pictured it, only better! Please continue, and soon!"}, {"response": 149, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (11:29)", "body": "Carolyn, you're a champion"}, {"response": 150, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (12:03)", "body": "Sorry for the delay. The real world intruded (don't you hate when that happens). Part 3. \"I will attend to the matter with all possible haste,\" Darcy promised. Lady Catherine open her reticule and removed a piece of paper which she handed to Darcy. \"I feel that the best possible way to deflate all of that girl's pretensions would be for you to announce your engagement to Anne.\" Darcy was startled by this statement. \"That is the announcement for the newspapers. Please see that is placed immediately.\" She had no conception of the horror Darcy felt at this command nor would she have believed that Darcy had no intention of obeying such a command. Now that Lady Catherine had said her piece, she was ready to leave. Darcy escorted his aunt to her carriage. After her ladyship settled into the carriage, she spoke to her nephew one last time, \"I know you will dispel these rumors.\" She tapped the paper she had given Darcy. \"This is the best way to go about it, as I am sure you will agree.\" Darcy stared down at the piece of paper. \"Lady Catherine, please believe me, I mean to dispel these rumors.\" Lady Catherine took this as affirmation of her plans and ordered her coachman to Grillon's Hotel. The sound of wheels from Lady Catherine's coach on the cobblestones bespoke of her departure. Darcy watched until the coach turned the corner--Lady Catherine was gone and now he had to prepare to make his own departure. He strode back into his study. Darcy tossed the announcement Lady Catherine had given him into the fire. He watched it burn and gave a sigh of relief when it disinegrated into ashes. Darcy had told his aunt the truth--he did mean to dispel the rumors of an engagement between himself and Miss Bennet--only he meant to dispel the rumors by making them the truth. \"Graves,\" he summoned his butler, \"tell the stables to have the coach brought around at seven tomorrow morning, with the grays in the traces.\" The butler was leaving the study when he asked \"Is Miss Georgiana in the music room?\" \"Yes, sir, Mrs. Annesley is there also I believe.\" Darcy hurried towards the music room. He could hear Georgiana playing as he approached. It was piece by Bach. He entered the room and listened until she had finished the piece. Georgiana looked up from her music and smiled at her brother. She looked to see if Lady Catherine was with him for one of the servants had relayed the message that she had arrived. \"Is Lady Catherine still here?\" she asked."}, {"response": 151, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (12:37)", "body": "OOOOOOOH!Don't stop, Carolyn!"}, {"response": 152, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (12:44)", "body": "Part 4. \"No, she has already left. Georgiana, I must be leaving at daybreak--I shall be gone for a week or, perhaps, longer.\" \"Is Cousin Anne unwell?\" Georgiana inquired, thinking this was the reason for Lady Catherine's visit and Darcy's departure. \"Not that I am aware of\" he replied, \"My departure has nothing to with our Aunt or Cousin. I am off to visit Hertfordshire, for a short stay with Mr. Bingley.\" \"Will you see Miss Bennet?\" Georgiana tried to sound casual, as if her question was of consequence. \"I hope to do so, yes.\" Darcy debated for a moment whether he should tell her more. However, he did not want to give rise to expectations that might not be fulfilled. \"Please let her know that I enjoyed her visit at Pemberley and that I should like to get to know her better.\" Hopefully, you shall, he thought. \"I will make it point to relay your message to her.\" He left her to resume her practice. Georgiana stared at the closed door after he left the room. Darcy's departure was rather sudden, but if she correctly understood the reason for it (and she hoped she did) then it made perfect sense. Remembering an old childhood practice, she crossed the fingers of both her hands, closed her eyes and wished her brother good luck. \"Georgiana, my dear, whatever are you doing?\" Mrs. Annesley asked, looking up from her stitchery. Georgiana blushed, and resumed playing the piano. After a moment or so she stopped playing and folded her lap. She sincerely hoped it was not an invitation to stay at Rosings Park. If Mrs. Annesley could see her hands, she would have noticed that the fingers were crossed again. Upstairs Darcy had his valet pack for a week's sojourn into the country. Darcy would send for him if the need arose for a longer stay. He chose his green jacket for the journey on the morrow. These preparations seen to, Darcy returned to his study. The clock on the mantel chimed 10 o'clock. Nine hours hampered his departure."}, {"response": 153, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "I Just noticed part 2 posted twice, I have absolutely no idea how that happened."}, {"response": 154, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:19)", "body": "Ooh Carolyn, I like it, I like it! Can we have the carriage ride as well? Darcy formulating his plan of attack? ;-)"}, {"response": 155, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:23)", "body": "YES!!!!! I knew he smirked!"}, {"response": 156, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "always knew there is a career awaiting Carolyn"}, {"response": 157, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:57)", "body": "and let it be a lucrative one too, why not afterall..."}, {"response": 158, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "If these other sequels are so awful, y'all really need to publish, I'm enjoying this!! Maybe that is why it is all so delightful, are you enjoying writing? I must go to the Guild and see if Cassandra finished!"}, {"response": 159, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (15:36)", "body": "THE GUILD HAS BEEN UPDATED!!! Please check to see if I missed anyone's story. It feels so good to be back!"}, {"response": 160, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (15:38)", "body": "It is good to have you back!"}, {"response": 161, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (15:56)", "body": "Ann -- I am glad to see you back. I hope your computer is feeling better, and that it will stay healthy!"}, {"response": 162, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (16:42)", "body": "Yeah Ann!!"}, {"response": 163, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (17:12)", "body": "Ann, glad you and your computer are back -- Long life and health to you both!! Carolyn, I like it very well indeed. Isn't it a good thing that Darcy practiced his inscrutable face from an early age!! Otherwise he might have laughed in Lady C's face!;-)"}, {"response": 164, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (18:11)", "body": "Ann, aren't computer withdrawals the very worst kind? Carolyn, I am transported -- do continue!"}, {"response": 165, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:33)", "body": "ELIZABETH AND DARCY PART 7 Later on that night, Elizabeth concluded that, try as she might, she would never fall asleep. During dinner, she had struggled to be pleasant and attentive to Georgiana, but it was indeed a hopeless case. Thankfully, Georgiana suspected and questioned nothing, insisting that she retire early for the evening. It was readily and unanimously accepted that Elizabeth was merely exhausted, both from the journey and her recent illness. This sympathy was, of course, a small comfort to Lizzy's tortured mind. As sh rested her throbbing head against the pillow, Elizabeth attempted to smooth out the rumpled bed sheets, a bitter testament to her endless tossing and turning. All at once, she reflected that she no longer knew what to expect upon seeing Darcy. The one letter that she had received from him, advising her of his planned trip to Hertfordshire, had been addressed as much to Bingley and Jane, as to herself. Indeed, the whole, maddening journey home, she had re-played over and over in her mind exactly what she ould say to him, carefully choosing the words she would use to express her sincere gratitude for his kindness to her family. Not once, however, had Elizabeth expected that her sudden arrival would coincide with Darcy's absence. Angrily, Lizzy noted that fate had robbed her of her planned course of action, and subsequently her courage. Once again, Lizzy's mind was riddled with the most heart-wrenching anxiety. Glancing at the mantel clock, Lizzy's spirits plunged even further. It was not even midnight. \"Will this insufferable night ever end?\" she thought disdainfully. Springing to her feet, Elizabeth reached for her rose-silk robe. Possessed by a stronger impulse, however, she found herself grasping for Mr Darcy's ever-present, grey coat. Tenderly, she lifted the sleeve to her lips. Closing her eyes, she wrapped the coat about her shoulders, revelling in the caressing warmth of its smooth texture against her sk n. \"How handsome he always looks in this coat,\" she dreamily mused. \"I can tolerate almost anything, but that he is thinking ill of me. What must he think of me? I behaved so selfishly and abominably.\" Endlessly pacing and re-pacing the floor, Lizzy's thoughts became even more alarming and terrifying: \"Oh God! What if he is somewhere hurt. I cannot bear this torture any longer!\" Almost immediately, she grabbed the candlestick from her oak nightstand and tentatively entered the darkened hall. The house was damp and terribly cold. The only movement beside her own was the incessant scratching of tree branches against the widowpanes. With a shudder, she pulled Darcy's coat even more tightly around her body. About to descend the stairs, Lizzy's colour changed as she eyed two men at the bottom of the landing. Much to her astonishment, it was indeed Mr Darcy and his steward, James, seemingly engossed in polite conversation. As if he sensed her nearness, Mr Darcy suddenly looked up and met Elizabeth's tearful gaze. For the briefest, most joyous of seconds they stayed inexorably locked in each other's presence, silently communicating all of the words that needed to be said. Her heart pounding, Elizabeth sprang to life and flew down the stairs; at the middle of the stairway, Darcy caught her up in his arms, cradling his wife's body as if he would never let her go. Ever so gently, he tasted the tears from her eyelashes, bestowin the smallest and sweetest of kisses on her eyes, forehead and mouth. In fact, Elizabeth and Darcy were so oblivious to everyone and anything but their own intense pleasure and hunger for each other that they failed to hear a red-faced James convey his polite excuses. \"Dearest, loveliest Elizabeth. Tell me this is not a dream,\" Mr Darcy managed to utter as he playfully nibbled her earlobe. \"Indeed-it is not a dream! My Darling, I could not bear to be away another hour, another minute from you. Fitzwilliam, you must allow me to thank-you for your kindness to my poor father. My behaviour to you that last night was intolerable, selfish..\" \"Dearest Elizabeth-you selfish? Your tireless attentions to your father at the expense of your own health prove you otherwise. You do not know how it tortured me seeing you in so much pain. And my own sense of powerlessness- not being able to relieve your family's sufferings. It was soon after our arrival at Longbourn that I learned from Col Fitzwilliam of Doctor Davis's distinguished reputation and accomplishments. And so we agreed to seek him out in London. But, I didn't want to betray any confidence un il I was certain that I could engage his services. I did not want to engender any false hope. My darling, there is no gratitude to express. You mean everything to me. It haunts me to think how close I came to losing you. Don't you know by now that your family, your happiness your concerns, your sufferings are forever intertwined with mine?\" Playfully pressing her finger against his lips, Elizabeth met Mr Darcy's question with the"}, {"response": 166, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "Thank you Cass -- that is, indeed, a lovely romantic finale!! Big sigh of relief all around - Mr. Bennet lives, Darcy and Lizzie are together, and everything is right with the JA world!;-)"}, {"response": 167, "author": "winter", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:59)", "body": "i like the big finish! (i think the staircase makes it more dramatic.) lizzy wearing darcy's coat was a nice touch, cassandra. and him sweeping lizzy off her feet....i wouldn't have had it end any other way"}, {"response": 168, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (19:58)", "body": "Bravo Cass! I, too, loved her going to his coat.(Reminds me of the early 80s) Thanks to you (and everyone) for sharing your talent. Has anyone tackled their honeymoon in Venice, all that water and all? Inko have finally read \"Young Fitzwilliam\" - very entertaining, but please don't make his mothers death any sadder than it has to be!"}, {"response": 169, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:57)", "body": "Very nicely done, Cassandra---very nicely done indeed!:-)"}, {"response": 170, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:09)", "body": "Chapter 6 Anne did not go back to her room, on the contary, she went trembling downstairs, she liked Miss Williams, and she knew her mother did a cruel thing, and for the first time, she lectured her mother: \"Why did you send her away?\" she asked firmly \"Anne, I did it for your own good, your health does not allow so many learning\" \"My health! What do you know about me? What do you know about anything? You're always sitting in this drawing room not letting anybody but yourself to speak! There's more than Rosings Park, there is more than gossip, there is more than my cousin Fitzwilliam, why can't you understand it! And there's a bit of gossip for you: I'm not sick! Not a little bit! You only wanted me to think I am, so I won't bother you, I wanted to talk, so you shut my mouth, how like you! Everybody hates you, I hate you! You are t e most horrible person I've ever met!\" Lady Cathrine was astonished, for the first time in her life somebody resisted her, her power as the mistress of Rosings Park, she had to stop it, somehow. \"Anne, you are a child, you don't know what you're talking about, calm down a little and rest, my dearest\" But Anne would not give up so soon, and she declared: \"I'm not your dearest! I don't want to be dear to a woman like you! I despise you!\" Lady Cathrine tried to be strict: \"Miss Anne, I am your mother, and I tell you to go to bed, you are sick! Come here, you two, carry her to her room\" Two servants came and lifted Anne, who struggled and yelled to her mother: \"I hate you! I shall never forgive that! Never ever!\" Lady Cathrine was horrified, and thought aloud \"What am I to do? Oh, I know! I shall call Lady Anne, and together, we shall find an idea. What a clever idea of mine, indeed!\" To be continued..."}, {"response": 171, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:12)", "body": "Just one word, sorry if it's getting too Jane Eyrelike."}, {"response": 172, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:19)", "body": "Not at all, Ayelet! Keep going, dear!"}, {"response": 173, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:51)", "body": "Cass, Bellissimo! Ayelet, the making of Anne is becoming all too clear!"}, {"response": 174, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (07:45)", "body": "The famous scene in GWTW when Rhett takes Scarlett upstairs, my younger brother yells \"why are they going upstairs?\" (we were in a crowded movie theater) I naturally was mortified, only vaguely understanding myself, and my mother laughed for days. I imagine that story was retold often. Ayelet thanks for taking the underdog's side. I like Jims idea of having Anne run off!"}, {"response": 175, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (08:07)", "body": "Cassandra, I liked it excessively. Ayelet, keep going, please. I am quite like Anne, now."}, {"response": 176, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (15:54)", "body": "Part 5. Two hours later Darcy was still awake. Anticipation and excitement would not let him sleep. He had tried to read, but after reading the same paragraph for the fourth time he gave up. He tried cards for a while. Mostly he paced about his room like a caged tiger. Every so often he would look at the clock against the wall. It moved with agonizing slowness. \"Tempus fugit, indeed. More like tempus lentitudo*,\" he thought. Darcy tried to plan how he would now approach Elizabeth. His last proposal had been an unmitigated disaster (he shuddered as he recalled his own words) and he did not wish to make the same mistake again. Would a simple \"Miss Bennet, I love you. Will you marry me?\" be sufficient? Or perhaps \"Miss Bennet, as you are aware, I have long held an admiration for you. I find that my regard has grown stronger over time. I have endeavored to correct those faults......I have endeavored to improve myse f... should he even mention the previous proposal? Maybe he should keep quiet on that subject unless she made mention of it. Had Elizabeth seen the change in his behavior at Pemberley? Darcy thought he had seen some change in her regard of him. Surely that smile she had given him held promise. Was she aware of his efforts to reunite her sister and Bingley? Had she been aware of his regard at her mother's dinner party? He had found it impossible to speak to her then, surrounded by strangers (to himself), but his eyes had never really left her face for more than a few moments. On one point he was clear in his thinking though. He would not tell Elizabeth about his involvement in the Wickham Affair (as he now thought of that event). That would only lead her to feel grateful and gratitude was the last emotion Darcy wanted from Elizabeth--it was such pale substitute to the emotion he craved. At one o'clock in the morning Darcy could hear a light, steady rain began to fall. Darcy become most anxious, a fierce storm would delay his departure. By three o'clock it had subsided, for which Darcy was most thankful. At four o'clock Darcy finally fell into a restless sleep that lasted little over an hour. Morning had come slowly. Darcy was ready and waiting for the coach a full hour before he had asked for it to be ready. He tried to be patient and was able to withstand his own impatience for a quarter of an hour. Then he ordered his carriage to be brought around immediately."}, {"response": 177, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (16:00)", "body": "Tempus fugit, indeed. More like tempus lentitudo. tempus lentitudo--this is most likely wrong. If anyone know what the Latin equivalent to Time passes slowly would be please let it be known. Ann, if you want to substite :Time flies, ideed. A snail probably moves faster than that clock\" or something similar is OK by me."}, {"response": 178, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (16:32)", "body": "Ayelet: poor Anne but I'm so glad she found the courage to really tell Lady C what she and everybody else thought of her. Lady C had it coming!! Carolyn - I like your Darcy very well, indeed. Poor guy watching the clock, whether it has ordinary or Roman numerals!! At least we know it wasn't digital!"}, {"response": 179, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "CRISIS AT PEMBERLY CHAPTER 6 For Charles Bingley life in politics was a dream about to come true. From the moment of his arrival at Parliament Square he felt comfortable and at ease with his fellow representatives. Kalon had called upon him early in the day following his taking up lodging at Hampton House. They proceeded to make the rounds of introductions prior to the afternoon debates in the Commons which was now in session. Warm greetings, hearty approbation and well wishes always accompanied this intercourse, perhaps as a conseq ence of Bingley's disarming smile and enthusiastic attention. Not surprising, then, was his unanimous election as one of six new members of the Lower House of Parliament. In celebration, Kalon hosted a gathering of several acquaintances at the Black Dog Pub that evening. \"Welcome Parliamentarian,\" hailed Kalon with a broad grin as Bingley approached a large corner table in the noisy, dimly lit tavern. \"May I present Mr. John Dobsen of Glocester, Mr. James Waldon of Warwick and Sir Michael Gravish of Oxford.\" Bingley bowed to each noticing that these gentlemen were not attired as men of wealth rather as local businessmen or shopkeepers. \"Congratulations,\" Mr. Waldon was the first to speak, \"I hope that you will profit by this experience and speak well for the denizens of Staffordshire. These are formidable times. A new age is upon us and all of Europe shall reap the benefits of Wellington's defeat of Bonapart.\" Mr. Dobsen added, \"Aye a shining victory for his majesty. But the past two wars, I fear, may threaten the stability of Briton's economy for generations to come. There is a great deal of unrest in the population. So much of our resources have been expended on the military. This insufficiency may create a climate for civil disorder.\" \"Yes, it is the truth,\" echoed Sir Michael, \"but we may stave off a crisis if Parliament supports our cause.\" \"Cause?\" inquired Charles, \"of what do you speak sir?\" He was in a good disposition to participate and this situation had the sound of a threat to all levels of society. \"There is a public bill before the House, as we speak, which would do much to provide relief for our economy, \" continued Sir Michael. \"It would provide land and revenue to raise additional crops as well as secure housing for our returning heroes of war. We cannot ignore their plight! This land is available through abandonment or slothful misuse. We propose that the government claim its title for shares to be divided amongst our veterans. If you would join our cause all that is requested is for you to pr sent a subsidiary motion to the Writ of Confiscation residing on the Speaker's agenda for Wednesday next. It would be your first opportunity for debate.\" Mr. Bingley was impressed. Here was a chance to improve the lot of the common man and it was a wonderful gesture to repay society's debt to its soldiers. He would do it. \"Yes, I would be pleased to support this undertaking.\" \"Excellent,\" responded Sir Michael, \"here is a list of the particulars.\" He handed Bingley a folded piece of paper which Charles carefully placed in his breast pocket. \"And now,\" announced Kalon, \"let us further celebrate with another pint of fine ale!\" The remainder of the evening was uneventful. Bingley's only recollection was of stumbling up the stairs to his room and a desire to write of the good news to Jane at first light. During the next few days, Charles studied the styles and mannerisms of his fellow representatives as they spoke before the House. Late at night he could be found formulating ideas and practicing his intended speech. It was obvious that the often boisterous rabble by his fellow members would be a challenge to overcome. He, therefore, often repeated stirring phrases designed to capture their attention. At last the fateful day arrived. The convention of the afternoon slowly passed. Bingley was aware that his motion was the last of the day's repertoire. The members had grown tired by nightfall and the mood of the floor was surly as the closing minutes approached. His was the third motion to be addressed as the Speaker shouted his name over the many side discussions currently taking place. Someone yelled, \"Silence, let us hear from the young initiate.\" Bingley rose from his seat and spoke hesitantly, \"My fellow representatives, we have just come through two devastating wars...\" \"Aye, you can say that again,\" was heard from his left. \"Tell us something we do not know of,\" came from across the floor. The Speaker gaveled twice. Afraid of losing control, he raised his voice and continued, \"We must take care that economic recovery is pursued without delay...\" A few affirmations were heard. \"Our men have paid a great price to preserve freedom and protect o r homeland..\" A chorus of \"Hear! Hear!\" erupted. \"We must repay that debt. We must ensure that adequate food supply is available for the citizenry. And we must house our uniformed population...\" Support of the assembly was building a"}, {"response": 180, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (21:37)", "body": "Dina (Response 138): It was an attempt to portray LC as more human. Mrs. Bennet considered her at that moment as a kindred spirit: both mothers equally wronged by their offspring."}, {"response": 181, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Dina (Response 138): It was an attempt to portray LC as more human. Mrs. Bennet considered her at that moment as a kindred spirit: both mothers equally wronged by their offspring."}, {"response": 182, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "Carolyn, the suspense is as hard on me as it is on Darcy! Tom, another great sequel!"}, {"response": 183, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (02:10)", "body": "Ayelet - You have really made Ann quite a character; can't wait to see what she does next. Carolyn - Wonderful. You've filled in these details so well. Cassandra - Thank you, thank you, thank you. The reunion I always wanted.:-) Tom - These are great sequels. How is dear Charles going to face Darcy?"}, {"response": 184, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (05:14)", "body": "Carolyn, I can so vividly imagine Darcy from your text.Great ,thanks. And as for Anne De Bourgh, I am terrified to think of her situation, she is practically imprisoned and severly punished, Aylet. And by her own mother! I was relieved to see her courageous and telling the truth to Lady Cath. Hope the servants heared it. As for Mr Bingley...the ale got the better of him...poor Charles, he must learn that pleasant manners are not sufficient.And how will Jane cope with this?Tom, are the elopements attended to? I will have to go back and see if I've missed something. I save the romance for special occasions Cass!"}, {"response": 185, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (05:18)", "body": "Anne, The Real Story Chapter 7 Lady Anne came in half an hour, she was a goodhearted woman, but was prejudiced and snobbish, therefore, she and Lady Cathrine got along extremly well, for when they talked, about the planned marrige their 8 and 6 years old children, Lady Anne gave up very often in their rare arguments, which suited Lady Cathrine perfectly, their conversation went along like that: \"Oh, Cathrine, I am so glad to see you, but pray, what is the matter? You do look pale.\" Lady Cathrine wondered what to say, she did not want to be exposed by telling how she lost an argument with her six years old daughter, nor by telling what her daughter thought about her, a parent, she felt, cannot allow such things, so after a thought she said: \"My daughter Anne behaved extremly ill and rude, I do not know what to do with her\" Lady Anne tried to balance prejudice and kindness: \"Indeed, a parent cannot allow such things, but Anne is such a sweet girl, and Fitz would like her so much, if he knew her, I cannot imagine what made her act so\" \"I can, she is a rude, stupid, ungreatful girl, I would bear it no longer, something has to be done, that's why I called you\" \"But Cathrine, I do not know either, but-\" Said Lady Anne, with a sudden thought \"How about sending her to school?\" \"School! Indeed, what a nice idea of mine! Thank you, Anne, for your pleasant visit, and I kindly pardon you for not helping me at all\" said Lady Cathrine proudly. \"I'm more grateful than words can express\" said Lady Anne, somewhat sarcastic, luckyly, Lady Cathrine did not relize the tone of her voice and said: \"And so you ought to be, Anne, would you not stay for a cup of tea?\""}, {"response": 186, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (05:20)", "body": "My, I forgot to say: To be continued..."}, {"response": 187, "author": "Dina", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (09:22)", "body": "Tom: Thanks, I understand now. Black Dog , someones been to Martha's Vineyard. What is it you do at NASA that you know so much about England and it's government? BTW, I enjoy your stories (actually, I enjoy everyones)."}, {"response": 188, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (10:36)", "body": "CRISIS AT PEMBERLY CHAPTER SEVEN Mr. Collins and his wife, Charlotte, returned to the parsonage at Kent without ceremony. The trip to Meryton had not gone well. Although Sir William was improved, their presence at Lucas Lodge had grown tedious after nearly three weeks. They had missed the ball at Pemberly and little contact was had with the community, especially while the residents of Longbourn were in Derbyshire. So it was that after reopening the house at Hunsford, the couple sought an early invitation to convene with Lady Catherine. fter several hours a note was forthcoming which advised only a short visit be attempted at 4 PM. Their curiosity peaked at such a restrained response to their homecoming, on arrival at Rosings, Mr. Collins inquired if they had been responsible for some offense to Lady de Bourgh. \"Madam has been ill since the elopement of her daughter\" removed any cheerful countenance intended by Mr. Collins. Charlotte responded, \"When did this occur? Who is the gentleman and where is their destination?\" The servant answe ed, \" I am sorry ma'am, perhaps Miss Bingley can provide you with a history of recent events.\" Caroline Bingley entered the room looking wan and tired, \"Please sit down. I will tell you what is known.\" After some minute's account of both elopements followed by questions and speculation, she concluded, \"... and I understand Darcy to be enroute to Glasgow to intercept his sister.\" Mr. Collins was greatly disturbed. There followed a long diatribe concerning the injustices put upon the de Bourgh house. Som regret was also expressed by Charlotte for the Pemberly household, especially the burden placed upon Elizabeth for the actions which had occurred while Darcy was absent. Mr. Collins concluded, \"At least you have derived from these circumstances the privilege of residence at the magnificent de Bourgh Manor. May we attend to Lady Catherine?\" \"The Lady does not possess the strength, I fear, for a visit of much length,\" Caroline cautioned, \"however, her spirits may improve by your presence.\" They were shown to a large bedroom. Lady Catherine was propped upright in bed, but was evidently still distraught. \"Dearest Lady, may we enjoin your grief and replace it with our profound sentiments of goodwill and forbearance,\" began Mr. Collins. \"If we had but a preview of these events or news of their execution, we should have flown here with unabated haste.\" \" Yes, yes, but what is being done to recover them?\" she replied. \"Am I to be abandoned in my last years without relations or civility? Is this my reward for years of provision? It is not to be borne!\" \"My Lady I can assure you that all energies are disposed to their discovery. And if they not be successful, Mrs. Collins and I would be most enraptured to provide for your care and entertainment.\" Lady Catherine put it to them directly, \"And to what length will your attentions be sustained if the Manor is lost? This new law will deprive me of my settlement of 50 years!\" Mr. Collins was taken aback \" Such a disaster is surely unthinkable. Your patronage of this community has endeared you to all who reside in Hunsford. They will support you as long as I am a clergyman in this parish.\" \"Which may not be long,\" sighed Lady Catherine as she sagged back into her pillows convinced that the diffidence of idiots was to be her destiny. \"I must rest now. Thank you for the pleasure of your company.\" With that the conversation ended and the Collins were forced to retreat downstairs. \"It is a sad course of events, \" Charlotte observed to Caroline, \"If this threat to Rosings be not imagined it will affect many families in the vicinity. Perhaps a change of venue would lift her spirits\" \"Yes, I have suggested London. She seemed receptive to the prospect of appealing the Writ of Confiscation now before the House of Lords. But I doubt she has the strength to endure a long campaign or bear further disappointment,\" lamented Miss Bingley. Caroline herself, was out of sorts as well. She was depressed and impatient to leave Rosings. Her depression could be explained by the abatement of her growing affection towards the Colonel. Her impatience came from being caught between the imposition of eld rly pride and the selfish actions of young lovers. She must soon depart this place or become even more intolerant of those seeking happiness. The Collins bid farewell and suggested that they return on the morrow with news from the community. Lady Catherine was always interested in the local developments. Charlotte was exhausted as they reclaimed the carriage put at their disposal for the return trip to their residence. Not a word was spoken. When they had left for Rosings Mr. Collins was anxious to repair the neglect of his garden and spoke of it at length. But now, he had been so decimated by the turn of events that he said almost nothing. C early the stability of his existence had been threatened with little opportunity to influence the outcome. And what of herself? Wou"}, {"response": 189, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (15:43)", "body": "ELIZABETH AND DARCY PART 8 Bathed in the moonlight from the rear balcony, Elizabeth contently sighed and stretched her arm out to the nearby pillow. Fluttering her eyelashes, she soon realized that a bemused Mr Darcy was standing over her, intently eyeing her slumber. \"Do you mean to intimidate me, Sir?\" she archly said. \"Indeed-I do not dare!\" \"A capital crime-invading the privacy of a lady's bedchamber. It shall not be endured! It must not be borne!\" Lizzy continued, mimicking Lady Catherine's voice and affectations. Such an action deserves the most immediate and strictest censure. Your punishment shall be a kiss!\" \"I am certain I can do better than that,\" Mr Darcy seductively uttered. Pressing Lizzy against the pillow, he passionately kissed her. \"You look like an angel,\" he whispered, gently stroking her face. \"Take me to the balcony-Fitzwilliam. I want to see the moonlight reflected on the lake.\" Gathering Lizzy up in his arms, Mr Darcy, then, carried her to the terrace. Lovingly, he set her down again, resting his head against her own. \"I can't imagine a more happily situated place than Pemberley. It is the most delightful, enchanting..\" \"The second most enchanting sight,\" Darcy interjected. Dearest, loveliest Elizabeth-you have brought life back to Pemberley. Tenderly, Darcy brought Lizzy's hand to his lips. His gesture and words touched Elizabeth deeply, bringing a river of tears to her eyes. \"Tell me, Fitzwilliam. Why did you come back so early?\" \"Well, my business finished early and I had some matters to discuss with James. And after tonight's events with so bewitching a lady, I am certainly glad I did!\" Elizabeth blushed exceedingly. \"Seriously, my darling, I have been concerned about Georgiana. I know it has been a very lonely time for her since we left. I have even promised her a ball at Pemberley.\" \"Yes-she seemed very pleased by the prospect. Fitzwilliam, that reminds me-there was something I should speak to you about. The very best and happiest of news. Sir David has finally asked for Georgiana's hand.\" \"When did this occur? Why hasn't he spoken to me?\" Mr Darcy remarked, somewhat angrily. \"Darling-you know the awe and esteem in which Sir David holds you. From what I understand, this is a very recent occurence and I am certain the young man means to speak with you soon. I do entreat you to give your consent without delay. Certainly, you cannot doubt their mutual affection for each other?\" \"Indeed, I have no real objections to the match, both are well-suited in temperment. However, Georgiana is very young and ill-acquainted with the world. Still, if my sister can find as much happiness in marriage as I have, I could not possibly refuse her.\" After the longest of seconds, Mr Darcy continued: \"It appears we shall soon be all alone at Pemberley.\" \"Well, maybe not completely alone. Or so your excellent Doctor Davis informed me.\" \"Dearest, loveliest Elizabeth..,\" Mr Darcy breathlessly uttered. The brilliant, luminous expression of Lizzy's dark eyes was the only proof Mr Darcy needed. Spinning her about in his arms, he attempted to express himself as sensibly and warmly as a man, violently in love with his wife and expecting the birth of his first child, can be supposed to do."}, {"response": 190, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "Oh Cassandra, how wonderful. Sigh"}, {"response": 191, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "lovely, lovely, Cassandra! Tom,Great story! Ayelet, I cannot wait for your \"continued\"!"}, {"response": 192, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (16:44)", "body": "Cass, lovely story - both here and in drool fanfic!! Ayelet - can't wait to see how your story turns out! Tom - interesting that Charles Bingley is an MP. But, they are \"members\" not \"representatives\"! Sorry to be picky - but representatives remind me of congress --a very different club from Parliament."}, {"response": 193, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (17:40)", "body": "So many lovely stories. How I love them. Ayelet - keep telling us about dear Anne. She is such a strong minded little creature, I dread knowing how Lady c will break her. Cass and Carolyn and Tom - your stories are great."}, {"response": 194, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "Cass what a great way to begin the weekend:-)"}, {"response": 195, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (09:10)", "body": "All of the stories are wonderful! Cass, both Mrs. Darcy and Mrs. Knightley with child -- you have been busy!"}, {"response": 196, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (14:17)", "body": "I wish, Susan. I WISH!!! And thanks to everyone(Susan, Cindy, Karen, Inko, Ann2, Anne, Cheryl, Carolyn, Caroline, Katy, Winter, Meggin, anyone I stupidly missed) for all the kind words and encouragement."}, {"response": 197, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (21:09)", "body": "Carolyn -- sorry I missed you when you asked in chat a few days ago... \"Tempus Lentitudo\" means literally \"Time is Slowness\", so it has more or less the right meaning you want, but HOWEVER it's not really the opposite of \"Tempus Fugit\", because in Latin \"Tempus Fugit\" doesn't really mean \"time rapidly flies by\", but rather means \"time flies away\" (or \"time flees away\") -- i.e. the hours pass and they're gone, so (the implication is) one should stop wasting time already! But anyway, you could try \"Tempus Repit\" (\"Time Crawls\")..."}, {"response": 198, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:04)", "body": "Anne, The Real Story. Chapter 8 Anne was called downstairs, on her way, she heard two servants talking: \"Have you heard what Miss Anne told her ladyship?\" \"Yes, of course, who couldn't? She yelled like mad\" \"But didn't the Lady deserve it? Nobody ever had the courage to tell her what they think, most of them are anyway too afraid to utter a word, I am so proud of our Miss Anne, I always knew she could do more than other people, who talk and talk and do nothin', Miss Anne never spoke when she didn't have a good reason, and now, my, did she speak!\" \"My, you are so right, I hope it will improve our 'dear' Lady Catherine\" Anne smiled, but she was tired, she never did such a thing before, she poured her whole soul, and now she was left powerless. She had to collect energy again, and she knew better than anybody else it would take long, she needed a lot of courage to reject Lady Catherine, and although she did not have it at present, she knew she would have it someday, and decided to wait, bear her mother, and gather strength for another attack on her mother, she would not give the battle up till she wins, she was sure, she ould only wait and gather strength, it may take time, but she will have enough someday, she thought hopefully. After this consideration she went downstairs to meet her mother, Lady Catherine was sitting in her favorite chair, very stiff, Anne went to her, somewhat scared, and asked: \"Well?\" she knew she was to be punished, she just wondered how, and the only way to find out without getting a mile-long lecture was to ask. \"Anne, you had behaved in a most unladylike manner\" thus began the lecture \"And you shall be punished, I cannot allow, indeed, as a mother, it is my duty to take care of you in the best way, especially when my chidl is so sick. Therefore-\" she stopped to take a breath \"You are to be sent to school\" Anne felt a mixture of astonishment, happiness, and sadness. She was astonished because the first part of the lecture made her think of quite different a punishment, as no dinner or ideas like it, she certainly hadn't expected this \"punishment\", school meant going from Lady Catherine, meeting new people, learning again, trying to get over the lose of the only person who really liked her. Yet, she was somewhat sad, for despite everything, she liked Rosings park, she liked to walk along and imagine she's in fairyland, for one of the only people in England who never got orders from Lady Catherine was the gardener, and he happened to be clever enough to use it, and the gardens were beautiful sights, yes, she would miss all these, but people don't stay at school forever, and she decided not to be too bitter. Anne stopped her tears and screams of delight and said timidly: \"When?\" \"In a fortnight\" \"How long will I stay?\" \"As long as I please, and no tears, I'm quite put-out anyway!\" To be continued..."}, {"response": 199, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:10)", "body": "I'm quite put-out That sounds just like our Lady D, Ayelet! You are doing such a wonderful job with this story line!"}, {"response": 200, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (06:30)", "body": "BEWITCHED, BOTHERED AND BEWILDERED or OTHERWISE ENGAGED? Part 2 When the ball commenced, he could not refrain from watching and noticed that the clergical relation of the Bennet\ufffds was Elizabeth\ufffds partner for the first dance. This must be of some significance. Rumours had it that this man was visiting his relatives with the intention of choosing a wife amongst his cousins. Was it to be Miss Elizabeth Bennet then? What an appalling thought. He did not appear to be worthy of her. She ought to be able to marry someone of slightly better consideration in the world ... Mr Collins brought distress to his cousin during their dances; he was not attending and often moved in the wrong direction without even being aware of it. Darcy, perhaps due to some unconsious jealousy, felt an undignified stroke of malice at this akward display. It was visible on his face in the form of a contemptuous grin and he recieved immediate punishment as Miss Bennet noticed it and glanced reproachfully at him.Once again he was secretly pleased to have her aware of him. Any proof of his being on er mind , even in a form calling for blame was curiously agreeable. The next moment brought some clear-sightedness and made him realize, that it would not do for him to continually centre his attention on her every move, so he took to stalking about the room observing the other guests. His critical eye caught sight of Mrs Bennet eagerly chatting to Lady Lucas, no doubt conveying some idle gossip ; He noticed that Bingley, dancing with the handsome Miss Jane Bennet, had the expression of a man totally in love. Before he had time to consider this, a loud giggle made him frown at the unbridled and flirtatious behaviour of the youngest Bennet girl. He had finished his turn and resumed his former position in time to get another more pleasing scene before him. Miss Elizabeth Bennet was drawing the attention of more than one gentleman, moving her body gracefully through the last turn of the dance. As Darcy\ufffds eyes were glued to this irresistible performance, an unexpected sensation of heat rushed through his entire body and a sudden dryness in his throat forced him to swallow. He was utterly overcome by the unseemly nature of his own reflections and wishes, and tried desperately to hold back, so that his eyes would not betray him. His thoughts were roving hither and thither:\ufffd I wish...to speak to her... why...I must. ..get near her ..it is....how... I shall .. ask her to dance with me... yes! Definitely! There can be nothing improper in that. It is merely what can be expected. I shall dance with Bingley\ufffds sisters of course and perhaps with Miss Jane Bennet as well. But apart fr m Miss Elizabeth Bennet, there is not another woman in the room , whom it would not be a punishment to me to stand up with. I detest dancing with women unknown to me.What would I speak about?...empty compliments are abhorrent. Why should I devote my time to inferior women. They do not usually interest me ...but despite her unfortunate family, I find Miss Bennet to be witty and hrmm... entertaining indeed. Yes that will be half an hour pleasantly spent.\ufffd He thus reasoned himself from a state of complete onfusion into the opinion that dancing with Elizabeth would mean nothing at all but the common civility due to a friend of Bingley\ufffds sisters. However he did not feel up to it just yet, and the time he took to recollect his composure, offered an opportunity for one of the officers to dance with Miss Bennet. They seemed to get on very well and the gentleman\ufffds admiring glances were somehow a disturbance to Darcy\ufffds peace of mind. He was on the alert as she returned to her friend Charlotte Lucas and abruptly broke into their lively conversation, making a courteous bow; \ufffdMiss Bennet - if you are not otherwise engaged - would you do me the honour of dancing the next with me?\ufffd Her reaction was, as always, not what he had expected it to be. She seemed to be confused and was having some trouble finding the words to answer his request. When she did, it was in a somewhat hesitant manner: \ufffdWhy I...I had not...I thank you, yes! \ufffd He was not sure what to make of that and he was amazed at his own deed. As every word failed him, he immediately walked away, quite content that he had actually got her to dance with him at last . She had declined to do so twice during their acquaintance. The first occasion being at Lucas Lodge, where Sir William had tried to give her hand to him and,though extremely surprised, he would have been happy to recieve it, had not the lady drawn back and declared that she was not inclined to dance and that his own consent was only good manners. This rather elegant repost had been accompanied with the first sparkles aimed at him from her dark eyes. His initial interest in the contents of her conversation, the liveliness of which had drawn his attention, was heightened by his surprise at this most unusual reaction from a woman offered the honour of his company. And the twinkle in h"}, {"response": 201, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (06:49)", "body": "You are such a romantic, Cassandra, and that makes two of us! I am very fond of that scene when Lizzy and Darcy meet on the stairs.(Can't imagine why!) Very well done. I do so hope Anne will like it in school. It is your story Aylet, Lady Catherine will never know...! Glad Anne had that gardener for a friend. Was he the one who cut all the hedges and bushes in funny shapes? Young Fitz found them odd, remember?"}, {"response": 202, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (06:57)", "body": "Wonderful Ann! I love the use of the hmmm! You've recreated that scene from the ball perfectly."}, {"response": 203, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (10:39)", "body": "Ann2, I love the way you get into his mind!"}, {"response": 204, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (10:50)", "body": "CRISIS AT PEMBERLY CHAPTER EIGHT \"Miss Fitzwilliam are you aware that most all of your relations are seeking your whereabouts? We supposed that you had left the country,\" admonished Mr. Collins. \"Richard and I are just now returned from Plymouth. Miss de Bourgh, Anne, requested a means of travel to meet her fiance, Colonel Fitzwilliam, to thus enable their departure. Consequently, we postponed our sailing from London. We subsequently discovered that a general military alert had been issued for Captain Denny which necessitated hiding by day and travel only at night.\" she responded. \" I have a letter from Anne which I promised to deliver personally to Lady Catherine. After that we must make our wa to the coast and ten days hence are planning to leave England forever.\" \"But your dear family...\" Charlotte objected. \"Yes they are dear to me, but Richard and I will be a family as well, \" Georgiana was resolute. Seeing that argument was futile and cautious of causing further adversity, they acquiesced to escorting her to Rosings the next day. In the mean time Charlotte secretly wrote a letter to Elizabeth informing her of the developments and delivered it to the housekeeper for immediate posting once they were out of sight. Caroline Bingley was excited to see Georgiana but was outraged at her decision to continue with the elopement. Georgiana was patient, insisting on her course in life, that she had a right to create her own happiness. Eventually she was shown to Lady Catherine's room. The elder woman reacted immediately to her entrance and demanded to know what role she had played in the disappearance of her daughter. At that point the door closed. Caroline and Charlotte could only imagine the letter's content as the soun s of censure soon changed to sobbing. Then a hush fell over the room. After 45 minutes Georgiana emerged, shaken from the experience, and requested a brandy. \"Is Lady Catherine well?\" Charlotte asked. \"Does she understand Miss de Bourgh's reasons for leaving?\" Mr. Collins was quite agitated, \"I should attend to her and provide the comfort of a church blessing.\" Things were not going well for Captain Denny. It had been agreed that he would proceed to London to secure passage on the \"Merryweather\" bound for Lisbon on the 17th. This was the first leg of their intended voyage to escape possible pursuit. He would then return to Rosings for Georgiana once she had delivered Anne's letter. What he had not counted upon, however, was the surprise encounter with the militia at a nearby pub. Traveling by night he had reached London, located secure lodging until morning and hen paused for food and drink at a local tavern. Even then he would not have been noticed except for his decision to join a man slouched over the table, thinking it would provide disguise from attention. Despite several pint glasses about testifying to an inebriated condition, the man straightened when Denny sat down. It was Charles Bingley! The two stared at each other for sometime before speaking, \"Captain Denny, I believe. Did Jane send you to take me home?\" Denny was puzzled. \"Don't look so surpris d. I know that all of you are aware of the mess which I have created in the Commons. I have condemned Lady Catherine to a state of homelessness.\" Captain Denny was not about to expose his mission to those yet informed, hence he decided to play along. \" You should not cast blame on yourself, I am sure you were of good intentions.\" Bingley was determined not to accept any excuse, \" I have heard it said that 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'... If only Jane would forgive me I could then face Darcy.\" \"But why should she not?\" countered Denny. \"Would you not do the same for her? And if you were in her place would you not wish to console her and understand her motives? Is your friend Darcy also not a just man? Why should your mistake bring an end to the friendship. Has he never caused grief to someone as formidable as Lady Catherine?\" The arguments sounded encouraging to Bingley, \"Perhaps you are right. If you could help me to my room at the Hampton House, I will prepare myself for the trip home tomorrow.\" They left the Inn with Denny supporting Charles, at times staggering under his weight which was often propelled in random directions. It was this behaviour which called attention to three militia also exiting from the establishment. Their offer of assistance to Denny resulted in recognition by an infantryman of former acquaintance. After a brief scuffle, Denny was forced to flee, leaving Bingley to find his own way home. Elizabeth had not slept well in many nights. She longed for the situation of Georgiana to be resolved. William was absent again and she wished him to be with her. Word of the new threat to Rosings and Bingley's role in it had reached her the previous day. At first she was outraged that he could have been so insensitive for the sake of his own advancement. But it was so unlike his usual behavior that she was cert"}, {"response": 205, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "Inko (topic 192): Thanks for your help I was trying for a generic term and confess my ignorance. It really is an education."}, {"response": 206, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (12:29)", "body": "Tom, is this Mr. Fitzwilliam or Mr. Darcy?? \"Madam, an accident has occurred on the road near Dunbar in Lothian. Mr. Fitzwilliam was thrown from his horse and has been taken by cart to the Edinburgh infirmary.\" You also referred to Georgiana as Miss Fitzwilliam instead of Miss Darcy, I have changed that for the Guild."}, {"response": 207, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (13:29)", "body": "\"Miss Fitzwilliam are you aware that most all of your relations are seeking your whereabouts? Also the first line..."}, {"response": 208, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "Ann: Thanks. Mr. Darcy is correct (trying to be too familiar leads to confusion); the latter, Georgiana, I should have caught it. Thanks again."}, {"response": 209, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (13:45)", "body": "Tom, I made the corrections for the guild."}, {"response": 210, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "Ann: Thanks again to both you and Dina for such a quick response. It is nice to receive the attention."}, {"response": 211, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Ann2, you have really caught just what Darcy was thinking throughout the Netherfield ball. I hope you'll continue, tell us what he was thinking while he was actually dancing with Lizzie, what he thought when Mr. Collins approached him at supper (was he trying to suppress a smile at this peculiar little man?) and did he overhear Mrs. Bennet saying \"Mr. Collins has been particularly attentive to Lizzie and I don't think he will find a better wife\"!! Tom, oh what a tangled web you weave!! I hope you will be able to sort it all out sometime!! Warning - more Little Fitz coming, probably tomorrow!"}, {"response": 212, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (16:55)", "body": "It is coming Inko, and probably more than you wished for ;-) Continued... BEWITCHED, BOTHERED AND BEWILDERED or OTHERWISE ENGAGED? Part 2 The musicians introduced Mr Beveridge\ufffds Maggot and the music filled the rooms. Darcy bowed with elegance and when at last Elizabeth moved towards him, her eyes looked straight into his as their hands met for the initial figure. Her touch was electrifying and it took a lot of his concentration to proceed with the steps and move in the predetermined turnabouts. He could sense the perfumed warmth of her body, as she passed him during their dance, and it added to the severe attack on his composure . She made an observation and he managed to answer her and was then silent again. She reproached him on this, telling him that he ought to make some kind of remark on the size of the room or the number of couples. He smiled and assured her that whatever she wished him to say should be said. Later they got into some verbal combat, as he gathered that she considered them both to be unsocial, taciturn and unwilling to speak if they could not amaze the whole room. He argued that this was not a good description of her and that he could not say whether it was near his own character, but that she undoubtedly found it accurate. She answered :\ufffd I must not decide on my own performance\ufffd. His answer after some reflection was inward : \ufffdNo, you can leave that to me, Miss Bennet, I would tell you, I enjoy your performance ; as a matter of fact I find it to be utterly enchanting. You are fresh air to me.\ufffd He experienced another breathtaking moment as a richness of dark ringlets swept dancing past his eyes and an impulse to pull her close to him and bury his face in her hair, had to be firmly subdued as he struggled to become his own man again. His inner lecture went:\ufffd What is this.. I feel..so ... a lack of ...sense. I\ufffdll admit she is attractive, but that is no reason for me to feel so akward...I\ufffdm no schoolboy... Hope to God she did not notice... anything.\ufffd He endeavoured to look all ease and formed a q estion on the frequency of her walks to Meryton. He felt relieved as she answered him, thinking that he now had a conversation going. That hope was dashed when Elizabeth could not resist to mention a new acquaintance, hinting on the meeting with Mr Wickham. Darcy was annoyed, it was intolerable to have this man reappearing in one\ufffds life again and again! It was not to be endured. He made a constrained remark, questioning Wickham\ufffds ability to retain his friends once he had so easily got them. Elizabeth replied that he would probably suffer from the loss f Mr Darcy\ufffds friendship all his life. Darcy did not answer and wanted very much to change the subject. Shortly afterwards Sir William Lucas complimented them on their dancing and he went on with an allusion to \ufffda certain desirable event\ufffd. Saying this he looked at Jane and Bingley. Darcy followed the direction of his gaze and watched the couple with a grave expression. \ufffdSo it has come to this already! It is a matter of gossip then. Bingley does not understand his own interest. I\ufffdll have to give him some advice on this business. And I am sure she is only accepting his attention to please her mother. That calculating vulgar woman. Bingley is pleasant of course and it is clear that Miss Bennet is enjoying his company. But she does not appear to be at all seriously involved. It\ufffdll be just another love affair of his after a few weeks . He does look rather committed, so there is no time to lose. I\ufffdll deal with this tomorrow. \ufffd When Sir William left him to\ufffd his fair partner\ufffd, he recovered himself and proposed a discussion on books. But though he was smiling and even gallant, Elizabeth was thinking of George Wickham and declined the subject. She could not refrain from asking Darcy if he had ever allowed himself to be blinded by prejudice.\ufffdI hope not\ufffdsaid Darcy rather surprised at this and other questions \ufffdMay I ask to what these questions tend?She had an earnest look and admitted that she was trying to understand his character.In flattered amazement he asked if she was making any progress, but her expression was worried and slightly embarrased, when she confessed having such different accounts on his person as to puzzle her exceedingly. Darcy , soberingdown, could imagine from where some less favourable reports might originate and adviced her not to sketch his character at the present moment. Elizabeth objected that she might not get another opportunity to do so. Suddenly realizing that they were not likely to meet much in the future, he felt lost, and his confused feelings made him answer quite coldly: \ufffdI would by no means suspend any pleasure of yours\ufffd. The dance was coming to an end and they parted. She did not appear to be in high spirits and he was displeased at first, but watching her now and then across the room, he was soon more favourably inclined and directed all his anger towards another."}, {"response": 213, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (17:07)", "body": "and the last part... And even more so when Miss Bingley informed him that she had recently had a report on Mr Wickham and Miss Eliza Bennet. They had been noticed to enjoy each others company. Darcy had no wish to let Miss Bingley know to what extent her tidings affected him and just muttered something about confined country manners and uninteresting small town gossip. He was, however, displeased to know that Wickham was performing his tricks in the neighbourhood. But how was it to be prevented? Painful exposure would be invo ved and probably without reason.The man was bound to be more careful now. It was highly unlikely that he was persisting in his immoral conduct. Darcy wished to forget him completely. As the evening progressed, Darcy felt that is was almost as if he was provided with the necessary tools to break some spell he had been under. It was undeniable that the younger members of the Bennet family were sorely lacking in sense and that their manners suggested no carefully exercised education. Their behaviour was such as to be looked upon with contempt and disapproval. It was easy to percieve from where the bad example was emanating, since Mrs Bennet was frequently betraying a total want of modesty as well as propriety. Her relatives were of little consequence in the world; a brother in Cheapside doing God knew what, and a sister married to the lawyer in Meryton ! But these circumstances alone could have been overlooked. Had it only been this lack of connections, the insignificance of their relations...Well, that could not be so great an evil to Bingley as it...might be to others. Had she only been a sensible woman with decent manners and some judgement...The Bennet family must however be regarded as a most unhappy conne tion. Darcy admitted to a certain degree of compassion for the two eldest daughters. Their manners were pleasing and they were perfectly well behaved, apparently sensible and tolerably well informed, thus being remarkably different from the other daughters. But this could not improve their possibilities much, as every decent man of some intelligence would be discouraged at the prospect of such relatives. Then their silly cousin , without a proper introduction, imposed himself upon Darcy, to inform him that his noble patroness , Lady Catherine De Bourgh was in good health. Mr Collins\ufffd manners had exactly the ingratiating tune to fill Darcy with disgust though he kept an air of distant civility, while listening to the production of a long rigmarole about the countless virtues of his aunt . At the first opportunity he made a slight bow and moved another way. When they sat down to supper Mrs Bennet rambled on about \ufffdthe sensible Mr Collins who had taken quite a fancy for Lizzy.\ufffdDarcy, who was sitting near enough to hear it, was disgusted :(Horrible.No wonder the poor girl was blushing.) She went on to reveal that \ufffdhe had favoured Jane at first...but Bingley was there before him\ufffd( I do not believe my ears...why it is almost indecent). She then rejoiced on this happy match and how it would \ufffdthrow her younger daughters into the path of other rich men\ufffd ( I\ufffdve know such undignified speculations to exist...but never in my life did I expect to hear them spoken out aloud. Total want of propriety!) His earlier resolve to save Bingley from such low connections was strengthened by the minute. He noticed that Elizabeth Bennet, cheeks blushing , was endeavouring in vane to persuade her mother to describe her felicity in a less audiable whisper.( Most akward predicament for a young woman.) Miss Mary Bennet had in a somewhat forward manner placed herself at the pianoforte in order to entertain the company by playing and - unfortunately - by singing. For though her playing did not reveal any true feeling, it was to be vastly preferred to her vocal efforts , which were not at all fit for anything but family diversion. And alas she did not possess the necessary self-criticism, and made an attempt to let her first song be followed by another. She was then , in a much to obvious way, tactlessly cut short by Mr Bennet, who told her to let the other young girls exhibit!( No real sense of propriety to be found in this man either). Darcy saw Lydia Bennet fooling around with an officers sword. The younger girls behaviour was rather improper. Their unguarded manner was now more understandable. They seemed to have been left without guidance and a correcting hand, hence those deficiencies in their conduct. Darcy glanced at Elisabeth Bennet and saw that her face had an expression of humiliation. She... and her sister were indeed to be pitied. But it could not be helped. Bingley must be brought to reason, and as he was going to London in the morning, it would be for the best if they were all to leave Netherfield. Bingley intended to be back in a few days, but Darcy was confident that he could convince his friend to change his plans. If the certain evils of his choice were pointed out...And when I assure him of Miss"}, {"response": 214, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (17:51)", "body": "Marvelous, Ann2 -- it was well worth waiting for. Capital, capital!"}, {"response": 215, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "Thank you Ann2, you have, indeed, made my day. I'm so glad our ideas of what Darcy was thinking coincide!! I still don't see him as an insufferable snob - it's just that Lizzie's relations are such boors that anybody would hesitate to be closely connected to them!;-)"}, {"response": 216, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "Ann H - Thanks for \"maintaining\" the Guild. and thanks for asking about Mr Fitzwilliam, I didn't catch it but did get Georgiana. I usually save files, but don't always have time to reread these stories carefully for several days. Thorpe - are you going to be able to untangle this web?:-) Mr Darcy had better not be hurt badly!!:-) Ann2 - (and Inko) thanks for a different side of Darcy I always thought of him as a rich, spoiled snob! But in a Regency sort of way.:-)"}, {"response": 217, "author": "summit", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "AnnR, you wove quite a spell in your bewitching story! Inko, I admire your persistence of vision! Cass, Ann, in fact EVERYONE on this and the other fan fiction thread, all have been most prolific in imagination and deserve some sort of Austen Award for creative writing!"}, {"response": 218, "author": "summit", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (19:37)", "body": "AnnR, you wove quite a spell in your bewitching story! Inko, I admire your persistence of vision! Cass, Ann, in fact EVERYONE on this and the other fan fiction thread, all have been most prolific in imagination and deserve some sort of Austen Award for creative writing!"}, {"response": 219, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (21:44)", "body": "And I am sure she is only accepting his attention to please her mother. Now, that's an interesting thought."}, {"response": 220, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (22:20)", "body": "Anne, The Real Story Chapter 9 Anne packed her things, besides the clothes, she took her doll, Helen, Anne was extremly fond of this little china doll, it was a present from Lady Anne for her sixth birthday, and when Anne felt sad, angry or even happy, she spoke about it with Helen, and pretended she's answering, therefore, Helen had very firm opinions of Lady Cathrine and Mrs. Jenkinson. In a fortnight her mother sent her in the Barouch to school, the school was in Derbyshire, and it was a day-long trip, Anne enjoyed the trip, she saw wonderful views of amazing places: Hills, lakes, mountains, fields, estates, all beautiful and new to Anne's eager eyes, Anne liked them so exceedingly she decided to try and draw them, the result was poor indeed, but at least occupaid her mind and hand, for otherwise she would have began to dance, just to use her extra-energy. At last she came to school, it was already dark, and she only had time to read her prayers and go to bed, without even being intoduced to the other studants, she had only enough time to glance curiosly at the other girls, All of them were tall, slim, pretty and about eleven years old, all except one. That certain girl was younger than the rest, about Anne's age, and she looked quite plain, but there was something in her mysteryous expression, that made Anne quite sure that despite the fact she did not hav the fair share of beauty, she got, instead, a kind and gentle humor, she wished to know her better. At last Anne drew her glance to the teachers direction, they seemed nice, but somewhat strict, she didn't wish to displease them, so she returned her eye immidiatly to her prayer book. To be continued..."}, {"response": 221, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (00:03)", "body": "ANN2-you've got me pegged alright! I loved your story and thank-you for the \"unexpected sensation of heat\" and hmmmms! Tom and Ayelet-Great! Looking forward to more."}, {"response": 222, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (01:29)", "body": "Tom, did she really ask for a brandy?! Georgiana sure is coming of age. I enjoy Bingley and Denny stumbling about the streets of London, and am much concerned for Darcy, injured, in a ditch for hours... Nice touch with that china doll, Aylet! Thanks to all above for comments. And Inko, pleased to have a fellow 'from the beginning and all over' Darcy-lover , he has his faults, but then who doesn't and deep down inside him there is a treasure awaiting for 'someone' to find and appreciate.Did you find his reaction to Mr Collins too haughty? Eagerly awaiting news of Young Fitz, the dear boy ;-)"}, {"response": 223, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (01:46)", "body": "Dearest Ann! Thank you for your newest additions, it's so good to \"hear\" your voice again! ;-)"}, {"response": 224, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (12:12)", "body": "CRISES AT PEMBERLY CHAPTER NINE Following two days of hard travel, Elizabeth arrived in Edinburgh. She had hoped to stay with Lydia in Newcastle for a brief respite during the traverse but received word that the entire party was now in Scotland. Upon her arrival at the infirmary a nurse escorted her to Darcy. He was conscious with one leg wrapped in a splint, several bandages around his midsection and a bruise still evident on his forehead. He was conversing with a doctor as she burst in, \"William, thank God you are alive!\" She rushe to embrace him as he grimaced with the pressure on obviously tender ribs. Tears welled up as the relief of finding him could not be held in abeyance. \"Dear Lizzy, I am of good health, except for a leg broken in two places. My horse stumbled and I remember briefly flying to earth. My next account is of waking in this room. The gentleman who is responsible for transporting me here sent you the express, and he has tended to the horse. It was an unfortunate accident and I apologize for the distress and inconvenience to you. But what news have you of Georgiana? The Wickhams' had left Newcastle when I first arrived there. Their party was on the way to Edi burgh according to the housekeeper.\" \"I have little to relate on that score.\" She responded and then described the incidents in Parliament. After some thought William answered, \"I cannot believe Bingley was responsible for this importunity without coercion. I must make some inquiries to ascertain why Rosings is considered a candidate for confiscation. Has Lady Catherine made her views known?\" Elizabeth was reminded of the second letter from Kent. She quickly retrieved it and upon opening exclaimed, \"Good God, Georgiana is at Rosings!\" She handed Darcy the letter from Charlotte. After a quick perusal he sat upright, \"the 17th is less than a week, we must be off at once.\" The doctor still within the room now stepped forward, \"Mr. Darcy I would not advise the rough ride of a hasty journey in your condition.\" Darcy grimaced as he tried to lift himself off the bed. Elizabeth interjected, \"Perhaps I can secure a boat of some kind in Leith. We could sail to London within a few days.\" The doctor shrugged and William smiled, \"You are right! We j st might make it then.\" After a few minutes Lizzy was on her way to the Port of Leith to search for any available vessel. \"Aye, she does not look like much, but for o'er 20 years I have fished these waters in her. We 'ave been to London now two years past,\" was the grizzled old man's offer. \" I imagine she's the only boat in port, what with the fishing season at hand. We can be ready by first light on the morrow.\" Although she was not favorably impressed with the apparent condition of the boat, Elizabeth was grateful to have secured passage for them. It remained for her to return with the news and prepare William for trans ort to the docks. As she walked through the cluttered streets little attention was paid to the ominous clouds forming above. It was difficult to negotiate a pathway through the construction equipment and building blocks for the new Waterloo Place in the fading light of late afternoon. However, she looked forward to a night with her husband. The morning gloom was accentuated by a heavy mist. The fisherman had greeted then with long heavy coats, boots and slippery hats. The thirty foot scow now had several containers of provisions and boxes were stacked in front of the tiny cabin to give Darcy a seat with his leg propped up. The boat stank of fish and the well worn planks creaked constantly as they pulled out into the harbour. The silence of the early morning was broken only by an occasional coo of a passing gull. As they drifted out from sho e the cold dampness made Lizzy thankful for the heavy coat and she huddled next to William. He was in some discomfort but kept a reassuring smile whenever Elizabeth looked at his face to check his condition. They drifted quietly with the current as the shoreline cliffs of the Firth of Forth occasionally could be made out looming in the mist. Elizabeth's thoughts drifted as well in the dreamlike setting. She wished they could have had time to find her sister Lydia and George, and uncovered the identity of their mysterious \"mutual friend.\" The carriage and horse had been sent back to Pemberly. She wished they could have traveled by road for she was not fond of the sea. As a young girl she remembered several trips to Brighton, but aside from the shoreline beauty, never indulged in water sports. The boat was gaining speed now as she turned to th old man, \"How long until we make the sea?\" The fisherman was sipping ale when he glanced at Lizzy. He too was wearing heavy clothing, his face nearly covered with eyes set on a distant yet unseen milestone. \"Won't be long ma'am. The current 'ardly demands a sail. We may do well without one once the sea current is felt, I expect a bit o' weather to be bothersome.\" Indeed, the morning mist had turned to light "}, {"response": 225, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:05)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--Part 18 Sir Lewis de Bourgh, seventeen years older than his wife and very frail during the past year, died a few weeks before Fitz' tenth birthday. Mr. and Mrs. Darcy travelled to Rosings for the funeral but decided to leave Fitz at home; they agreed that he need not be exposed to such a cheerless time. Fitz did not regret missing this visit nor did he grieve very much over the loss of Sir Lewis; he had known him very little and only felt sympathy for Anne who would no longer have her father's leavening wisdom to combat the unrelenting care of her mother. When his parents returned from Kent and London they presented him with a very welcome birthday present, his own light weight gun made especially by the best London gunsmith. \"Thank you, thank you both. Will you teach me how to use it, father?\" Fitz asked; he was delighted with this present. \"Yes, Fitz, I will teach you to shoot, but first you must learn the safety rules; how to carry it, load it, clean it, and lock it away with the other guns. You have got to be responsible about its use,\" his father told him. The summer months sped by as Fitz learnt and practised his shooting skills. He was very proud when he first brought home a rabbit he had shot instead of the usual trout caught in the stream, receiving Mrs. Reynolds' and the cooks' congratulations with a big smile before running off to find his parents to tell them of his latest feat. The usual shooting parties arrived at Pemberley in August and Fitz was often allowed to go out with them, in particular when Pierre arrived to spend six weeks at Pemberley. His English had become quite fluent in the past year, but Fitz insisted on learning more French, and even George picked up a few words when he joined them to ride or fish. Fitz was glad of Pierre's company, especially when George left the area in September to go to Berkshire School near Reading. George was excited about the new adv ntures ahead of him; and Fitz, while he had Pierre's company, did not miss him. During the horse chestnut season, Fitz again rode into Lambton nearly every day. He had just dismounted from his horse, one afternoon, when he saw three large boys surrounding a much smaller boy, beating and taunting him. Fitz ran to help the little boy and save him from his persecutors. In the ensuing melee Fitz landed a few successful punches on the bigger boys who fled the scene, shouting curses at him and the name of Darcy. The younger boy stood close to Fitz, stammering his thanks to his rescuer \"There is no need to thank me; I only did what I thought was just; please do not mention this to anybody. But tell me, why were those boys beating you?\" asked Fitz. \"They said I was not allowed to collect the horse chestnuts; that they were their property alone\" replied the boy, \"but I need them; I want to try some experiments with them.\" \"That is nonsense! The chestnuts are free for everybody. What is your name? How old are you? And what is your experiment?\" Fitz asked a whole string of questions without stopping. \"I am Joe Miller; I am eight years old; and I was going to try and grow a tree from one of the chestnuts. If I take all the coverings off the nut and plant it, it might grow into a tree.\" \"Do you like to experiment with plants then?\" asked Fitz. \"Oh, yes. I like growing things; plants, flowers, vegetables, anything that will grow in the garden.\" \"And you have a garden here, in Lambton?\" Fitz asked. \"We have a very small one where I grow some flowers and vegetables. I was going to plant the chestnut at the other corner of the green over there so that there would be another fine tree like this one,\" Joe told Fitz. \"Well, Joe, when you are older, if you still like cultivating plants, come out to Pemberley; perhaps my father will hire you as a gardener. We have a vast amount of space where you can experiment and grow flowers and vegetables as much as you like,\" said Fitz. He collected some chestnuts, handed them to Joe, mounted his horse again and rode back home, rather pleased with his afternoon's adventure. He had never before had the chance to test his courage against such ruffians, larger and older than himse f, and was glad that he had not faltered. Two days later Fitz again rode to Lambton and, approaching the chestnut tree, saw Joe waiting near by. Joe ran over exclaiming, \"Darcy, you must allow me to tell the villagers what you did for me on Tuesday; the other boys have spread it about that you are very disagreeable and ill-natured, and I know there is no truth in it.\" \"Never mind, Joe. You may tell your parents, if you wish, but as to the others, just let it be. You and I know better, and I care little what the other villagers think,\" replied Fitz. \"All right, Darcy, but I think it most unfair that those boys can spread such lies about you. I hope that one day the truth will be known to all,\" Joe said as he ran off down the street."}, {"response": 226, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:08)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--Part 19 Mr. Stone knocked on the door of Mr. Darcy's study whilst trying to compose his face. It was the day after Christmas and, unlike his frown and somber expression of the previous year, he was smiling broadly and his eyes were shining. The only barrier between his present and future happiness lay in the ensuing interview with his employer, although he felt reasonably secure of a favorable outcome \"Mr. Darcy,\" Mr. Stone began, \"if you could spare me a few minutes of your time, I have a serious matter to discuss with you.\" \"Of course, Mr. Stone,\" Thomas replied while noticing the slight smile and happy light in Mr. Stone's eyes; \"but I do not know what can be so serious while you look so very cheerful.\" \"I am happy, Mr. Darcy. Miss Field has done me the great honour of consenting to become my wife.\" \"Congratulations, Mr. Stone. Lady Anne and I were hoping that the two of you would find happiness together and, I must admit, lately we have only been wondering when the announcement would be made; we have long held suspicions that this was only a matter of time,\" Thomas said with a smile to equal that of Mr. Stone. \"When is the happy day to be?\" \"That is what I want to discuss with you, sir. As you know, when I marry I must give up my fellowship at Cambridge; I would then like to take orders and enter the church. We are willing, however, to wait until Fitzwilliam goes to Eton.\" \"I would not want you to wait too long, Mr. Stone; that would not be fair to either of you.\" Thomas Darcy considered for a moment and continued, \"the living at Kympton is filled at the moment, but the one in Lambton will be vacant in June when Mr. Cooper is raised to bishop. I feel sure he would welcome you as his curate at any time and you would then be in a position to take over the rectory when he leaves. Would you like the living at Lambton?\" \"Mr. Darcy, that would be the perfect position for us. Miss Field's family lives in Matlock, as you know sir, and she hoped we could remain in the area,\" Mr. Stone replied, happy at the thought of remaining in Derbyshire, a country he had grown to love. \"Let me speak to Mr. Cooper on your behalf then, Mr. Stone,\" Thomas Darcy continued; \"also I think we could send Fitz to Eton this spring, for the start of the Easter-Trinity term. It would only be one term earlier than we had intended. Do you consider him to be ready?\" \"Yes, academically Fitzwilliam is more than ready; but socially he may have some difficulties. He is as yet quite shy and does not mix easily with strangers. Perhaps he will overcome this when he is living and learning with other boys of his age and rank.\" \"Will you announce your intentions to my wife and Fitz or do you wish me to tell them?\" Thomas asked before continuing, \"as soon as our Christmas visitors leave in January, you and Miss Field must join us for dinner and a real family celebration.\" \"Thank you, sir. I would be happy if you could apprise Mrs. Darcy and Fitz of our plans because, as you know, we are going to Matlock for the next week and we do not want to interrupt your family or guests with our personal concerns. We will look forward to a family celebration on our return to Pemberley,\" Mr. Stone said as he prepared to leave the study. Two weeks later Fitz, unusually distracted during his Latin lesson, suddenly asked his tutor \"what made you and Miss Field decide to get married?\" Mr. Stone, startled by the question thought a minute and decided to be perfectly open with his pupil. \"Because we love each other. That is usually the reason people decide to get married, Fitzwilliam.\" \"Oh, I thought it was to carry on a great estate, and you do not have one, do you? How do you know when you love someone? What is it like?\" Fitz asked, very curious about loving someone other than his parents. \"It is difficult to describe. Love is a very personal feeling, different from one person to another. For me, it is the knowledge that my life would not be complete without Miss Field beside me every day in the future. It is like coming home to the other half of my being.\" \"I've never felt anything like that. Do you think I will find that kind of love when it is time for me to marry?\" Fitz was still rather puzzled and very curious. \"I certainly hope you will not marry unless you do love your intended bride,\" Mr. Stone told Fitz. \"But you are too young, as yet, to worry about such things.\" \"My aunt Catherine once told my mother that I should marry my cousin Anne, but I do not like her at all. She is so insipid, she never speaks, and she is always ill. My aunt can not make me marry her, can she?\" \"Whatever she may wish for you and her daughter, she can not force you to do what you do not wish to do,\" Mr. Stone reassured Fitz; \"come on now, back to these Latin verses.\""}, {"response": 227, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--Part 20 The season of courtship passed uneventfully for Mr. Stone and Miss Field; they remained in the school room by day, and only when Fitz was otherwise occupied and in the evenings did they spend private time together. At the end of March Mr. Stone returned to Cambridge, where he resigned his fellowship and received his ordination. On his return, Fitz and his parents witnessed the marriage in Matlock church; the bride and groom left immediately for their new accommodations in Lambton, whilst the Darcys ret rned to Pemberley for a day before they travelled south. Fitz was quieter than usual on the road to London. He was thinking of a recent conversation with Mr. Stone, trying to understand its meaning. Two days before his marriage Mr. Stone had found Fitz sitting by the trout stream and sat down beside him asking, \"are you excited about going to Eton and your new life at school, Fitz?\" \"Yes and no,\" Fitz replied; \"I am excited but also a little apprehensive. What if the other boys do not like me? Will I be able to make friends?\" \"I think you will have no trouble making friends, Fitz,\" Mr. Stone reassured him. \"You will have your lessons together, live in the same house, eat the same meals, and play the same games; you will have much to talk about; and remember your classmates will come from similar homes to yours and their young experiences will be like yours. Only members of the best families go to Eton. It is one of the oldest schools in England.\" Mr. Stone paused, thought for a moment, and continued \"the best way to make riends, Fitz, is to be a friend. They will accept you if you are open with them.\" \"I will try to be open and talk more,\" Fitz determined; \"I want to have many friends.\" \"That is good, but most of all, and heed this well Fitz, do not be afraid of making mistakes, provided that those mistakes do not hurt any other person. This is the time in your life when it is acceptable to make mistakes, or else how will you ever learn. Remember that you do not have to be perfect at everything you do; try the different sports and whether you excel or not is of little matter; attempt some different course work whether you are first or last in your class. If you do not sample different ways, you will never learn to appreciate what you really can accomplish well and what gives you the most enjoyment.\" \"Do you mean that mistakes do not matter?\" Fitz asked, very puzzled. \"I mean that you should not be so afraid of making a mistake or not excelling that it would stop you from attempting something new,\" Mr. Stone explained. \"I advise you to be open to new ideas, new people, and new adventures; in that way you should have no problems at school.\" Fitz was considering these words when his father asked him why he was so quiet. When he told him about Mr. Stone's advice, his father replied \"that is excellent advice, Fitz, and something I should have told you long ago. Mr. Stone has been a good friend to you.\" \"We certainly want you to enjoy yourself at school, William, but remember that you must never disgrace the Darcy or Fitzwilliam names,\" his mother cautioned; \"politeness and propriety are expected at all times in society, no matter how many new adventures you might attempt.\" Fitz continued to puzzle this contradictory advice--try new things, make new friends, do not be afraid to make mistakes, be polite, be proper, enjoy himself and have fun--how could he manage to do all that? \"I will have to ask Edward for some guidance on our way to Eton,\" Fitz determined to himself, and settled back to enjoy the remainder of the journey to London."}, {"response": 228, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:19)", "body": "Inko - Mrs. Field Stone. Cool!"}, {"response": 229, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (18:14)", "body": "Katy, you're sharp! I hadn't thought of that, since using your maiden and married name is a very modern, American thing! But, Mrs. Field Stone might have been the origin for the north England drystone walls once the enclosure laws were passed!;-)"}, {"response": 230, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "Inko -- nicely done. I am enjoying watching (y)our young man grow up."}, {"response": 231, "author": "Becks", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (22:41)", "body": "If I had time (and motivation), I would love to hear of how Bingley and Darcy first met. Anyone wanna try this one?"}, {"response": 232, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (22:53)", "body": "Becks, it's going to be part of Little Fitz! Just have to wait a while!!"}, {"response": 233, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (23:13)", "body": "Inko, your Fitz makes it difficult to me to write how Anne and Darcy disliked each other ;-) Anne, The Real Story Chapter 10 In the bedroom, after the other girls were asleep, Anne had a talk with Helen: \"Helen, do you like this place?\" \"Yes, Anne. I'm quite fond of it, I think these girls are extremely nice\" Anne said, holding the doll. \"But Helen, don't you feel lonely? I do miss Miss Williams so\" \"It's hard to get used to new places, but I love this place, and it would not be long till you would, too. And as for Miss Williams, I miss her as well as you do, but every time you feel lonely, remember her whisper: \"Be brave\", if you want to give her a reason to be proud of you, you ought to be brave, this was the only thing she asked, don't fail her.\" With this sentence, Anne knocked herself down in the argument, so she kept silent and soon fell asleep. After breakfast, Anne was introduced, and put in the second grade, with five other girls: Miss Wilson, Miss Lane, Miss St. John and Miss Hills, to describe them, it is best to use her description to Helen: \"Mary Wilson is rather pretty, but she's SUCH a snob, she didn't even look at me, only because I'm younger than her! Diana Hills is nice, but she is so contentrated in her lessons, I couldn't change a word with her, as much as I tried, but I'm sure I'll succeed, you can't get rid of me easily. Caroline St. John is very tall and long-necked, Diana calls her fondly \"swan\", but she doesn't mind, I think she rather likes it, I would like it, if I were her, she and Diana are best friends. As for Anna Lane, she is very plain, but I like her despite of it, everybody likes her, she is such a dear! She is silent, but when she sees somebody needs any kind of help, she is the first to offer it, it was her who introduced me to the other girls, and asked if I may sit next to her, and made me feel welcome, I like her so!\" To this Helen replied sharply: \"I'm glad you are, and if you'll kindly shut your mouth, I'll be more grateful than words can express\" But Anne was not in the mood for listening to the advice she gave herself, and went on: \"And my teachers are almost as nice as Miss Williams, they are so kind and nice and teach so perfectly, but one teacher causes me a great deal of trouble: Mrs. Johns, my drawing teacher, she doesn't see that I try my best, and declares I'm a horrible artist, that my way is totally wrong, I do wish that instead of telling me what not to do, she'll tell me what to do, it would be much better, don't you think?\" \"I think it would be a great deal better if you'll manage to keep quiet\" To be continued..."}, {"response": 234, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (00:08)", "body": "Cass, re: E&D, Part 8 one word - hurrah!"}, {"response": 235, "author": "Becks", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (00:25)", "body": "Great Inko! What great work you have done!"}, {"response": 236, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (02:33)", "body": "Ann2, Ayelet, Cassandra, Inko and Tom - You all have wonderfully entertained me yet again. Keep up the great work!!"}, {"response": 237, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (16:47)", "body": "Wow, I come home, and three stories await me! fantastic!thank you, all! Inko, do you have plans for Joe Miller and Phil?"}, {"response": 238, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "Caroline, Joe Miller is Hanna's brother (I think that's her name, the servant at the Lambton Inn?) and Joe is the gardener she mentions at Pemberley!! But Phil??? Don't remember one! Do you mean Pierre? No major plans for him at the moment - he may come back in later. He was useful for the moment for teaching Wickham how to say \"Au Revoir\", as the French would have it!!"}, {"response": 239, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (18:39)", "body": "Inko -- marvelous, a good story as well as foreshadowing P&P2! I love it more and more. :-)"}, {"response": 240, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "Chapter 11 As Anne told Helen, Anna Lane was an angel, she was quiet and thoughtful, but woke from her dreams the minute she sensed somebody needed help, she was friendly and talented, therefore, it was only natural that she and Anne would become best of friends. They sat and talked at the evening, changing information about books and dolls, but mostly about their estates. They talked about them so much that each had a picture of the other's estate in her mind, with every tree and leaf placed carefully, each knew th names of all the people, each knew the names of the dolls and dogs, each knew every detail about the other. And when they learend enough painting to paint a tolreable picture of what she had in mind, they amused themselves in painting hundreds of pictures of people, trees, bushes and lakes they learend about from their long talk, and fixing each other's tiny mistakes, for an instance, Anna would draw the cherry tree near the door, and Anne would observe: \"No, Anna, this would not do, you drew ten branche coming out from this branch, don't you remember there are only nine?\" And Anna would lift her eyes from her work and say: \"You are quite right, I forgot. Anne, look at the picture you're drawing of my doll Elizabeth, you needn't draw lace on her dress, she hasn't got any. Here's Elizabeth, you can use her for a model if you wish\" and with those endless talks, a few weeks passed. One morning, Mrs. Wood told Anne that she has to be sent home, nobody told her why. Anne parted from Anna and all the other girls with tears, they all grew fond of each other, and even Mary Wilson had gone as far as telling Anne she was sorry. to be continued..."}, {"response": 241, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "CRISIS AT PEMBERLY CHAPTER TEN Elizabeth was certain that the boat was disintegrating, but William yelled to hang on. He tied the two of them to a large beam at the base surrounding the ship's hold as they were thrown sideways with each rocking motion. The little boat was lost among swells now reaching over ten feet in height. As they were thrashed about with each crash of the bow it felt as if the timbers weakened. The cabin was the next to go. A huge wave tipped the boat nearly on its side, when it uprighted the tiny structure was mi sing along with it the old man who had apparently retreated inside. Shortly thereafter the mast broke with the upper piece narrowly missing Darcy before taking more of the boat's siding into the water. The icy wind galed and the sound was deafening. All they could do was hang on and hope that enough of the boat would be left to stay afloat. By evening the storm seemed to subside but the pitching and rolling lasted through most of the night. As morning came they lay exhausted, dripping, chilled through but the boat was still upright and both were grateful to be alive. Jane heard the approaching horse. It was Charles at last! She ran to the door and embraced him as he entered. \"Can you forgive me, Jane?\" he began. \"I hope sincerely that Lady de Bourgh will not lose her home. All I can offer her is the fact that I have quit Parliament and will do everything in my power to repair the damage to our relationship with the Darcys.\" He then provided a description of the events leading to his speech before the Commons. Jane reacted, \"Those scoundrels!\" But after a moment's pause, \"Perhaps they meant well, but were given misinformation regarding the estates.\" \"I have spoken with Lizzy. We both had felt that there must have been extenuating circumstances,\" Jane reassured. \"I am afraid Mr. Darcy is too much distracted with Georgiana's elopement to attend to Lady Catherine's predicament. In fact Elizabeth and William have now left Edinburgh by boat to intercept them in London. Their carriage returned yesterday with a note arried to me by the driver.\" \"Edinburgh?\" Binkley stared blankly. \"Yes we received word from Kitty of a former friend from Meryton visiting Newcastle with an intention to travel to Scotland. We concluded it must be Captain Denny with Georgiana. William was enroute to Edinburgh when an accident occurred. He was thrown from his horse and suffered a broken leg. Elizabeth then joined him with news from Kent that Georgiana was at Rosings intending to depart from London with Denny on the 17th,\" she finished. \"Good God, what a mess!\" he replied. \"I hope Darcy has recovered. Tomorrow is the 17th. I hope they make it in time. It is clear to me that I should remain in Staffordshire in the future. But perhaps we should travel to Kent to apologize and explain the consequences of the Writ to Lady Catherine. I believe my sister is still at Rosings; it would be good to see her again.\" \"I have some other news to keep you near home,\" Jane offered, \"in seven months we shall be a family of three!\" They embraced with Charles feeling that he was now where he belonged. It had been several days since the storm had struck. As the remains of the boat drifted without means of control or propulsion, Elizabeth was becoming forlorn, \"Are we to die at sea then?\" Despite the tin of biscuits that William had salvaged, they both were thirsty and hungry. \"Stay calm Lizzy, I am certain the southward currents will take us to shipping routes near the Thames, or even to the Netherlands,\" he smiled weakly. \"It may be a little longer, but I feel we should see land presently and then be able to determine our whereabouts.\" The waves constantly lapped against the sides of the slanted hulk. There was little to be seen as far as the horizon in any direction. Aside from the sea there was quiet all around. Nor was conversation much attempted given the difficulty of parched throats. Time past slowly. Lizzy reflected again upon the elopements. How different the perspective of Colonel Fitzwilliam and Anne de Bourgh, now on their way to America, when compared with Georgiana and Captain Denny's irresponsible actions. Both fled what they perceived to be impossible circumstances brought on by a stifling society. Yet the Colonel had taken a course of action, without regard to the sentiments of Lady Catherine, which Darcy felt was a measure of logical thinking and which would probably achieve a successful con lusion. Captain Denny, with little resource, had acted impulsively, without question, but by a similar plan was doomed to pursuit and inevitable disaster. Was Denny of so little merit as not to be considered worthy of Georgiana? Was there not a course available similar to the one which had raised the status of both Jane and herself to bring him to a gentleman's position of affairs? Could not William help them to achieve a life of happiness under the auspices of Pemberly? Perhaps the experience with Wickh m had permanently"}, {"response": 242, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "Tom, Tom, You cannot just LEAVE them like this! Have pity, please!The North Sea is not forgiving, ever!"}, {"response": 243, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:16)", "body": "Chapter 12 After Anne got home, she asked her mother: \"Why?\" silently. \"Because Lady Anne died and she wished you'll be in her fernual\" \"Lady Anne! Dead! Why? How? When?\" Anne was shocked, if there was somebody in her family she liked, it was Lady Anne. Lady Anne was fond of her, and if she knew how Anne suffered from the engagements with a child she did not see in her life, she would not have orginized them in the first place, she did everything in belife she was doing only good. Anne knew she shall miss Lady Anne. \"She was very sick\" \"Don't you miss her? I shall always miss her! I liked her!\" Lady Catherine made a confession she never thought she would make to her child, she said: \"I do miss her most exceedingly, she was a dear friend of mine\" This had made Anne understand, in a sudden flash, that her mother was a person as well as her, she cared for people, she truely liked her sister. In this moment, Anne forgave Lady Catherine everything, and made a new plan: She shall not stay at home forever, nor marry that \"Darcy\", but she would not lecture her mother, someday, when she will be a big girl, a woman, she would just announce that she is going, and go, she made up her mind to act so, when she'll grow up, and silently hugged her mother. At the fernual, she saw a child, two years older than her, crying near the grave, she went to him, and asked: \"Was it your mother?\" \"Ye-e-s\" weeped the child \"So, are you Darcy?\" \"Ye-s\" said the child, surprised \"How do you know?\" \"I heard much about you, you probably heard as much of me from your dear mother, oh, Aunt Anne!\" Anne began weeping as well \"Are you Anne?\" asked Darcy \"Yes\" \"Why, you are so young! How old are you, pray?\" \"Six\" \"Is that all? Aunt Catherine can be somewhat silly! I'm years older than you, I'm eight, almost nine!\" \"Listen, Darcy\" Anne said \"don't you think I want to marry you! I've got the rights to choose my own husband, if I'll marry!\" \"I know, and feel excactly like you\" he smiled \"So let's agree never to be nothing more than cousins, all right?\" \"Fine\" Now Anne smiled too \"Let's shake hands\" After the handshake, they decided that Lady Anne would be pleased to see them playing together, so, just to please her, they played catch for a while, and then parted, each pleased to see the other shared his view of things. To be continued..."}, {"response": 244, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:41)", "body": "Ayelet, I really like what you're doing with Anne---she will never be \"poor Anne\" to me again! Keep up the good writing!:-) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 126, "subject": "Irony and morality", "response_count": 99, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (00:43)", "body": "This harks back to a topic I wanted to talk about more and never found the time to reflect on. I will repost some of the ideas to get it going again. Until then, recall that Hiliary had posted an excerpt from a new Everymans Library edition preface on JA and irony. The discussion split off to morality then I drownd."}, {"response": 2, "author": "EricB", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (15:55)", "body": "Question: Is it possible to avoid being a moralist? To this question, there are really two parts. The first pertains to whether it is possible to avoid believing that there are moral absolutes, i.e, moral truths which are true for all people, all times , all places (we do not, at this point, question what precisely those moral truths may be). The second concerns whether those who do so believe can avoid seeking to persuade others that they are correct in their understanding of moral truth (and we do no at this point concern ourselves with the chosen method of persuasion). It is my belief that the answer to these questions is no. We all hold to moral absolutes of some sort and we all necessarily seek to persuade others that we are correct. I believe, therefore, that JA is also a moralist. She holds to certain fixed moral truths and, whether consciously or unconsciously, seeks to assert those truths and persuade her readers of their truth in her novels and other writings. Question: What are the moral truths which JA believes absolute as derived from her novels, particularly Pride and Prejudice? Is she persuasive?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (17:55)", "body": "I agree that there are certain deontological truths that everyone subcribes to...however, it is the amount of rationalization which people are willing to apply to those truths that separates the different degress of \"morality\" in people. People disagree as to the point at which utilitarianism must overrule or abridge a certain \"morality\" (I know that's a bad description...I'm sorry!)...for example, at what point should one abandon one's view that marriage should only be for love, and marry some jerk for is money so one won't be dependent on relatives for the rest of one's life? I guess it's all a matter of competing values...most normal people subscribe to at least some deontological principles, while at the same time, most of the same people are forced to prioritize many moral principles for the greater good of the situation (o r, at least, so they think...I guess everyone is cursed with having to be duped by themselves!)... I agree that Austen is indeed a moralist and that she suggests how one should proceed in various situations...however, she also understands that it's not always realistic or possible to be completely righteous...I know this has been discussed before, but recall the Lizzy-Charlotte sellout thread...I agree that JA is right in promoting marriage for love and principle (through Lizzy and Darcy), though she makes it possible for one to understand Charlotte's marital motives and to actually feel a bit sorry fo her...obviously, Charlotte would be happier with someone she loves, but at this point, marrying for love is not very important to Charlotte."}, {"response": 4, "author": "kathleen", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (19:57)", "body": "Re Charlotte -- the danger, I think, is that she may end up behaving like Mr Bennet. That is, she may withdraw into observer status instead of actively participating in life. When Lizzie visits Charlotte, Lizzie assumes that Charlotte must forget about Mr C quite often in order to be happy. And we do see that Charlotte encourages her husband to be away from her as much as possible. Even if Charlotte is satisfied w/ her life, I find it hard to believe that she can ever be really happy -- as Jane tells Lizzie, \"Do anything rather than marry without affection.\" This action is wrong, even if understandable."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (20:46)", "body": "This is more related to Charlotte as a particular case than to the general topic, however; When considering the morality of Charlotte's choice, I think she was running a risk she may not have considered; that of being taken over by Mr Collins. The evidence I'm thinking of comes near the end of P&P, in Mr Collins letter to Mr Bennet about Lydia 's elopement; he says that Charlotte informed him that Lydia's behaviour was due to a faulty degree of indulgence. We don't know exactly what Charlotte said, but we see the way it's understood by Mr Collins and through him , the world. Although in abili y Charlotte and Mr Collins resemble Mr and Mrs Bennet, in the Collins' marriage the power is in the hands of the fool, and adept though Charlotte may be at managing him I believe she has put herself at considerable risk of being subsumed into his persona. Anna"}, {"response": 6, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (02:15)", "body": "Amy, please do re-post some of that old stuff - I, too, wanted to think more about this stuff, but it all came in so quickly, that I, too drowned before I could collect my thoughts."}, {"response": 7, "author": "EricB", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (05:51)", "body": "It is certainly true that we more often come upon situations where our moral principles seem in competition. There are, however, moral absolutes which govern the manner in which we prioritize our principles. In the case of Charlotte and Mr. Collins, she herself asserts that what she wants is a comfortable home - economic and social stability. She recognizes the cost involved in obtaining those goals and is willing to pay them. The risks of becoming like Mr. Collins herself is not thoroughly considered I'm sure, but even if they were, Charlotte would probably still behave the same way. Happiness as some wild joy, some thrill or excitement is from first to last foreign to her. This is the difference in temper to which Jane refers. Economic and social stability are indeed moral goods. For Charlotte, they are the absolute goods which govern other actions - choice of marriage partner, approval/disapproval of others and their actions, etc. I do not believe JA intends us to seriously challenge the valid ty of that choice for Charlotte so much as to say that such people exist and JA is not one of them. Elizabeth, on the other hand, holds respect and respectability - what we might call personal integrity or commitment - to be absolutes. Her approval of Darcy begins when she sees that he is a person of integrity. Her refusal of Mr. Collins and, original ly, of Mr. Darcy, stem from a commitment to her sense of integrity. Her willingness to change her opinion of both Mr. Wickham and of Mr. Darcy flow also from this same commitment to truth and honesty. She recognizes, however, that these absolutes may fo ce her to surrender her economic and social position, but economic and social stability do not account for as much to her as they do to Charlotte. There may be other high-ranking principles and these may not be the absolutes JA intends her characters to hold (i.e, I may be all screwed up here). It is difficult to know what one's absolutes are until one is forced to sacrifice for them, and absolute principle requires absolute sacrifice. Three more questions: Is power not also in the hands of the fool in the Bennet marriage? And what would be Jane's moral absolutes? Jane Austen's?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (07:09)", "body": "So Eric...you're saying that the moral absolutes vary largely by the person? I tend to see moral absolutes as pretty universally-valued, but not always upheld above all else...the mere fact that certain deontological principles come into conflict leads m e to think in this way...Personal morality, for me, isn't a subscription to unique absolutes, but a tailoring of universal ones... - K"}, {"response": 9, "author": "EricB", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (16:02)", "body": "What is held to be morally absolute varies from person to person. Charlotte, for example, holds economic and social stability to be moral absolutes and believes everyone should act as she does - Jane, Elizabeth, etc. Similarly for Elizabeth. Jan e is the tolerant one making allowances for differences of situation and temper. At this point, I do not wish to discuss whether some principles held to be absolutes are correctly held as such or not. My goal is far more limited in scope. I seek firstl to demonstrate that we all hold things to be morally absolute (true for all people in all places in all times) and that holding things to be morally absolute carries with it an inherent pressure to convince others that these things are indeed absolute. And secondly, to inquire as to what Jane Austen held to be morally absolute via the medium of her novels. The difficulty of pursuing the question you imply - namely, \"Which moral absolutes are correctly so held?\" - is not a question amenable to discussion as the answer depends invariably on revealed truth which is not open to question and is accepted i n faith. That is, it is a fundamentally religious question and, while I do enjoy making sermons, I had not thought it appropriate to this forum. ;)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (16:29)", "body": "holding things to be morally absolute carries with it an inherent pressure to convince others that these things are indeed absolute. Then you are casting everyone who ever lived in the role of a moralist, Eric - which more or less makes the term meaningless, since it does not differentiate any person from any other."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (17:41)", "body": "Eric said: ]Three more questions: Is power not also in the hands of the fool in the Bennet marriage? Mrs Bennet does have some power in her marriage, but then power is always divided. However Mr Bennet surely has the greater power. When he can be bothered to he controls the money (keeping the family out of debt, though he can't be bothered saving), and the movements of the others, who are legally and in fact his dependants. Mrs Bennet's 'power' comes from her ability to nag him into doing what she wants, and is thus secondary to his. I cannot deplore a marriage which gave rise to Elizabeth Bennet (w om I think shows characteristics of both her parents), but I think that with another wife Mr Bennet might not have become the defeated cynic we see. In a way his abrogation of his responsibilities to his family has arisen from his choice of wife. ]And what would be Jane's moral absolutes? Jane Austen's? I don't feel qualified to comment on Jane Austen's moral absolutes, but with regard to Jane Bennet, are her moral absolutes really different from Lizzy's? Jane is unwilling to judge others, but her standards for herself seem to me to be pretty much the s ame as Lizzy's. ] holding things to be morally absolute carries with it an inherent pressure to convince others that these things are indeed absolute. Does it? Why? Anna"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (18:16)", "body": "Eric...I agree with Joan...not everyone can be a \"moralist\" ...but there must be at least some universally-acknowledged truths (besides the one that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife...;-)) out there or else we wouldn' t have any sort of cohesive society...I believe the conflict of different moralities within the same situation calls for the variation of personal \"moral absolutes\" as you call them...indeed, Charlotte's desire to get out of the house to ease the burden o her parents and sisters is important, and in her situation, the utility of such a value outweighs the utility of marrying for love... Also, I don't believe that the \"correctness of moral absolutes\" is what I'm driving at...I'm merely trying to understand a framework by which varying degrees and combinations of personal morality occur...A total utilitarian may remain very \"correctly mora l,\" whilst a person whose morality is strictly deontological may end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater...I think it's safe to say that everyone thinks that marriage for love is most admirable...when it can be done without destroying one's life.. JA believes this - Charlotte's much-maligned (by people like us!)marriage is not portrayed as a total disaster, while Mr. Bennet's marriage (based on love at its inception) has turned out to be less-than-perfect, but not without its benefits (Lizzy, Jane. ..and greater understanding on Mr. Bennet's part)...Again, I have to say that life is complex...situations are mixed...and Jane Austen is very good at revealing to us this fact... - K"}, {"response": 13, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (19:01)", "body": "Kali -- Charlotte Lucas's family isn't actually poor, it's just that Sir William can't provide much of a \"portion\" to any of his children (except maybe his eldest son), which is one reason why Charlotte hasn't been plagued by a superabundance of suitors i n the past... She is relieving her family of the future burden of supporting her, but I think the benefits it will bring to _her_ (both material, and in terms of social recognition and not being dependent on the charity of her family) are more important to her."}, {"response": 14, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (20:52)", "body": "holding things to be morally absolute carries with it an inherent pressure to convince others that these things are indeed absolute. Then you are casting everyone who ever lived in the role of a moralist, Eric - which more or less makes the term meaningless, since it does not differentiate any person from any other."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (23:42)", "body": "I am having trouble getting back into this discussion in this site, but I want you to know I'm still interested. I think part on the original concern of mine, coming as a response to Conrad, *was* the question of JA's moralism. This got lost on the way, and also because many haven't seen the whole essay. It implies that JA uses irony in its various guises - as a mor alist, amorally, as the underdog in powerless situations, as a way of detatching herself and surviving in a world she despised. It was this idea of JA *not* sharing the idealism that I see in her work, that I find so unsettling. Anna, did you see my post on the Bennet family a la Conrad? He does not see so much difference as we are used to between Lizzie and Jane, and the rest of the family."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (23:52)", "body": "]Anna, did you see my post on the Bennet family a la Conrad? He does not see so much difference as we are used to between Lizzie and Jane, and the rest of the family. Unfortunately no. I think however that Amy may repost this thread. In the meantime, do you have a reference? Myself, I can see connections in personality and behaviour between Mr and Mrs B, Lizzy, Kitty and Lydia - I'm at a loss to explain Jane, and, t o a lesser extent Mary. I don't think Jane Austen is an overt moralist, so I shan't comment on her characters's moral nature, but I would like to see the Conrad article sometime."}, {"response": 17, "author": "EricB", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (16:21)", "body": "I do not believe the term moralist to be meaningless simply because I believe all to act as moralists. The word \"human\" is not meaningless because we are all human, is it? What I find disheartening is the fact that the word \"moralist\" is used disparagingly. Equally disheartening to me is the notion that some people are trying to convince others that their view of morals is correct and that others are not doing so. This is most often used to excuse ourselves and blame others. Somebody accuses somebody else of trying to \"impose his/her morality on me\", while they do the same to others. I have a similar complaint regarding politicians accusing other politicians of \"playing politics\". Humans are moral creatures. Whether we admit it to ourselves or not, we are eminently concerned with morality. It is in our nature, and to find it negative to call JA a moralist is to find it negative that she is/was human. There are, I believe, moral absolutes which are moral absolutes in fact and not merely in the opinion of some individuals. There are also moral principles which individuals hold to be absolute, whether in theory, in practice or both. It is hoped that the former and the latter are the same, and this is fervently believed to be the case by most zealots. How one determines which moral principles are absolutes in fact is a matter of revelation - it is not susceptible to argumentation for it i based on the authority of the source. We can more easily determine which moral principles individuals hold to be absolutes, particularly those which function as absolutes in practice vice theory. By comparing the relative success of these various indiv iduals, we can, I believe, arrive at something close enough to the truth (the moral principles in fact) to allow us to live happily if not perfectly. Because JA's novels are supremely concerned with the moral (doing the right thing, given certain situati ns) and because those situations are so thoroughly reflective of the lives we lead with their many imperfections, gray areas, hazy situations, and sometimes choices limited only to the least imperfect (not to mention the fact that after 200 years, they ar e still very readable), JA offers us an excellent opportunity to examine ourselves, our lives, and the world around us. To paraphrase Col. Brandon, Jane Austen has shown herself a moralist, in the best sense. Once we have settled this point, Hilary, we can get back to the specifics of Conrad's essay. If we deny that JA is a moralist, then his statement that JA uses irony to advance her moralism collapses. If we accept that she is, then we can look at how iro ny is used by her in this regard and whether such use is legitimate or undermines the very moralism she would pursue."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (21:41)", "body": "Eric, I think I can agree with you. I too have said before that I like to think she is a moralist of the best sort ie. she's not pushing, its by example. My concern is that her moralism may be ironic, fake. But in talking with Michael about this, he helped a great deal by suggesting that we need not assume pure motives. Her motives may vary: at different times she may be malicious, amused, ironic, idealistic, moralistic. It need not necessarily be one sustai ned outlook throughout the book, or from character to character."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (21:46)", "body": "Anna, the reference is P&P, 1996, Everyman paperback, available here at Collins for $5. The Conrad essay is the introduction. Here again is Conrad's Bennet family: 'The inescapability of the family, and its interlocking of vice and virtue is one of the novel's subjects, and also a condition of its form. Elizabeth's ironic frankness is a subtler mutation of Lydia's coarseness, her ironic exploration boldness of Lydia 's brazenness as a flirt. She acknowledges this kinship with Lydia when the latter condemns Mary King's nasty freckles: the ugly sentiment 'was little other than her own breast had formerly harboured and fancied liberal!' Jane's sweet temper is suspicious y close to the prosing moralism of Mary, and her debility at Netherfield and low spirits in London are inheritances from her hyperchondriac mother. The problem, which exercises Elizabeth as well as Darcy and Bingley, of how to preserve Jane and Elizabeth from the obloquy due to the other members of the family, is pressing because they can't rightly be separated. The family is united by its various styles of irresponsibility. Mary retires into sententiousness, her mother into lamentation, her father into p rversity, Jane into long-suffering patience, Elizabeth into the evasive disdain of irony. Even Lydia, as her letter to Mrs. Forster discloses, shares the family habit of excusing a misdemeanour by making a jest of it: for her it will be 'a good joke' to m arry Wickham. Even Mrs Bennet participates in the lethal wishfulness of her husband's or Elizabeth's irony when she declares that her consolation, after Bingley's departure, will be Jane's death of a broken heart.' And later about Darcy: 'the familial structure of the novel ensures that these vices (P&P), which Darcy and Elizabeth earn the right to deploy in the limited warfare of self-defence, remain simply vicious when used by Darcy's aunt or E's mother. Lady C's arrogance is a less ast ute version of Darcy's demanding integrity, which leads him to warn Bingley against Jane; Elizabeth is embarrassed when her mother flaunts her dislike of Darcy in Ch. 9, but it is the same honest revulsion as her own, more clumsily expressed.' Be interested to see what you think. Hilary"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (23:58)", "body": "The problem with Conrad's argument is that it seems, from these snippets, that he approaches the characters as entities/forces completely separate from each other - thrown together, made of different cloth, from different origins in the universe - and the n in that light tries to make a big deal about how alike they really are. They are each certainly very unique, but their personalities aren't the results of completely different expereinces or tendencies. Human-nature is universal...it is the way in which an individual analyzes, assesses, rationalizes, and expresses an instinctual reaction which makes him or her different from everyone else. I don't think that it is so remarkable that the Bennets share c haracteristics of \"irresponsibility\" or share certain general modes of reaction...after all, they are a family. I think it is to be expected that a child or sister will learn from or come to resemble a parent or sibling in certain reactive respects...eve if the levels of comprehension, maturity, and intelligence are widely different. After all, a family's own \"culture\"- a common denominator of experience which results from living together - will affect somewhat how one reacts to the world! The \"interlocking of vice and virtue,\" is, I believe, part of the complexity of human nature. To say that certain \"good-character\" traits in one character parallel \"bad-character\" traits in another, or vise versa, is to illuminate the fact that the chara cters share common natural tendencies. Isn't that obvious? What is more important is the fact that the truly remarkable characters learn to overcome their vices/delusional tendencies to understand their shortcomings and reality, and not that they are \"g od\" or \"intelligent\" alone. In other words, I don't think that this \"irony\" is really that remarkable. I think that it is part of life. In a contrary mood, and probably way off-base, Kali"}, {"response": 21, "author": "EricB", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (15:12)", "body": "Not at all off base, Kali. Irony as a tool used to advance moralism does not render either the moralism or the irony fake, Hilary. God himself is not above it - sometimes just for the sheer pleasure of irony. In the book of Judges, for example, there are references to people of t he Israelite tribe of Benjamin who seem to be all left-handed. \"Benjamin\" means \"son of my right hand\". John's Gospel is so full of ironic twists that somebody even wrote a commentary Irony in the Fourth Gospel . I have not made as thorough a stu y of other faith's religious writings as I have of the Old and New Testaments, but irony, as a tool for pointing out our failings and at once getting us to laugh at them and correct them, is an ancient one of very respectable parentage. And Michael is very correct in adjudging a mixture of motives. Very rarely do we do things for a single, pure motive. Rather a variety of motives mix and mingle, some dominating, some not - and here we come to moral priorities again when we see which do minate. Wickham's desire for wealth, position, comforts, companionship, sex - none of these are necessarily evil desires in P&P (or in life). Darcy's desires for the first three are not less for having them satisfied and it is obvious that he also desir s the latter two. It is their dominance over other considerations such as honesty, integrity, respect for others, humility which renders Wickham evil and it is their subservience to the same which renders Darcy good. For these desires, as for pride, whe n there is a real superiority of mind (and heart), they are always kept under good (morally good and not just proper) regulation."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (21:52)", "body": "I went back to the beginning of this thread, and printed it out, as I thought I was beginning to get muddled - I was right. I'm now going to attempt to post on a number of the sub-topics, with relevant quotes; if it ends up a horrible mess, or if in the process of cutting bits to quote I misrepresent anyone, please forgive me. - I tried twice to post this as one message, the first time my system hung, the second time I bounced (as with Amy's board and a long message in peak period) so I'm going to brea it inot a no. of shorter ones, and post them one after the other - I hope it works Eric said ]It is my belief that. We all hold to moral absolutes of some sort and we all necessarily seek to persuade others that we are correct. ]I believe, therefore, that JA is also a moralist. She holds to certain fixed moral truths and, whether consciously or unconsciously, seeks to assert those truths and persuade her readers of their truth in her novels and other writings. Eric; if I agreed with your view on human morality, I would necessarily have to agree that Jane Austen is a moralist, but I don't share your certainty that we all hold to moral absolutes (most maybe, but not all). Even amongst those who do hold to such absolutes I don't see why you think that we all seek to assert those absolutes. Can you explain why you believe as you do? A"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (21:53)", "body": "Kali said ] Eric...I agree with Joan...not everyone can be a \"moralist\" ...but there must be at least some universally-acknowledged truths (besides the one that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife...;-)) out there or else we wouldn't have any sort of cohesive society Kali, I ascribe what cohesion there is in our society to a combination of the remaining shreds of a shared ethos and self-interest, in varying degrees of enlightenment. I am not at all certain that all humans acknowledge any moral absolutes, let alone th at they share common moral absolutes. One can make 'descriptive' statements about human nature, such as 'the pursuit of happiness', but I don't see any evidence of universally-acknowledged moral truths. A"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (21:54)", "body": "Eric said ] I believe, therefore, that JA is also a moralist. She holds to certain fixed moral truths and, whether consciously or unconsciously, seeks to assert those truths and persuade her readers of their truth in her novels and other writings. > Eric, I agree that Jane Austen has stong moral principles, but not that she is trying to convince others of their truth through her novels, so I cannot agree that she is a moralist (in passing, I think one must want to convince others of the truth of one' s own moral views to be considered a moralist - a disagreement on this point seemed to underlie a recent discussion on this point on AustenL). A Eric again ] Question: What are the moral truths which JA believes absolute as derived from her novels, particularly Pride and Prejudice? Is she persuasive? The closest I can come to a guess at the moral truths which JA believes is based on a paraphase of one of her prayers I've seen published: (paraphase) 'That I have not been intentionally unkind to anyone' - it's been a long time since I read it, so I may be misquoting dreadfully. Hilary - I was going to go on to Conrad, but I can't type anymore at the moment - later. A"}, {"response": 25, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (22:39)", "body": "] Anna ] I agree that Jane Austen has stong moral principles, but not that she is trying to convince others of their truth through her novels, so I cannot agree that she is a moralist (in passing, I think one must want to convince others of the truth of o ne's own moral views to be considered a moralist - (bolding mine, not Anna's) This, I believe, is the material point. Intent must be necessary in order to be considered a moralist - otherwise the term does not differentiate anyone from anyone else. Joan, too"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (01:03)", "body": "Anna, Perhaps \"shared moral sensibilities\" is a better term? Most modern societies are built on certain social premises...certainly, \"pursuit of happiness\" is all a government can prescribe to its people without becoming paternalistic, yet there are numerous s ocial, religious, and ethical mores which societies uphold as gateways to individual liberty and the good of the whole...whether officilaly or not...to say that every person subcribes to them is inaccurate, but to say that most people do, to varying degre s, captures the general universality of a thought without ignoring the complexities of human nature. There are no \"absolute\" truths, but there are functional ones. - K"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (08:47)", "body": "I would like to say that we all have set rules of moral beliefs such as the Ten Commandments, every person with a religious background has learned something about morals but doesn't necessarily mean they are preaching about them. JA ridicules with satire and attacks human vice with irony and wit. She leaves it up to us to make the right choices in our life."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (09:05)", "body": "If JA was a morlist wounldn't show up in her other novels. I don't related sence and senceibility to be a moral issue it is a issue of wearing you heart of your sleve and hiding your true feelings. Her novels show human weakness and strengths."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (09:07)", "body": "I guess I could blame the incorrect spelling on my typing? Very poor indeed."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (14:20)", "body": "Eric, I know irony etc doesn't make moralism fake; it makes it more palatable, if anything, because it makes us laugh. If we put things in black and white for a bit to simplify matters: White: JA is an idealist. She shows us her ideals regarding human behaviour and marriage. She would like us to aspire to the same, but is not overtly teaching us, rather she gives us different examples, and leaves conclusions to us. Whether this makes her a moralist is at this very minute being argued! She uses irony etc to show up weaknesses and failures. This is an effective and amusing tool. Black: JA is bitter and twisted! She loathes all the human frailties about her, and tries ot get them out of her system in a malicious tirade of accutely accurate irony etc. It is her method of survival (like Mr. B) in a society and situation from which s he cannot escape. The idealism we think we can detect is being dealt with ironically too. I know it isn't as black and white as this, but does this make my dilemma any clearer to you? Hilary"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (19:35)", "body": "Hilary - I've not yet managed to get hold of the Conrad article, but going on what you posted, I pretty much agree with what Kali and Eric have posted. Specifically; I don't think that most personality characteristics are moral or immoral of themselves, it is the way in which the individual acts upon them that determines how I would judge an individual. In adddition, nobody is 'good' all the time, and I wouldn't judg e anyone, fictional or otherwise, because of an occaisional slip - I would base my assessment on the sum effect of their actions over time. Thus I agree with Elizabeth's ironic frankness is a subtler mutation of Lydia's coarseness, her ironic exploration boldness of Lydia's brazenness as a flirt. But don't see that it necessarily draws a moral parallel (in passing, I've always thought of Lydia as amoral rather than immoral). It seems to me as though Conrad is misrepresenting this passage Jane's sweet temper is suspiciously close to the prosing moralism of Mary, and her debility at Netherfield and low spirits in London are inheritances from her hyperchondriac mother. I can see no kinship between a sweet temper and prosing morlity - a matter of opinion only, but I disagree. Also I see no evidence in the text that Jane's illness at Netherfield was imaginary, and in London she is deperessed (understandably) by Bingley' s apparent defection - she doesn't think herself ill. I don't see how Conrad gets hyperchodriasis out of that. Finally, in this passage these vices (P&P), which Darcy and Elizabeth earn the right to deploy in the limited warfare of self-defence, remain simply vicious when used by Darcy's aunt or E's mother. the word 'vices' would be better replaced by 'characteristics'; it seems to me that one of the points of P&P is that pride in oneself, and judgement are appropriate when exercised correctly, it is their abuse as arrogance and prejudice which are wrong. Not having seen the whole article I'm not sure what Conrad is saying about irony, however, I too don't think it is always a bad thing. In some situations it may be the most balanced repsonse to some of the sillier aspects of human behaviour. With regard to your last post, above; one can take a positive or negative view of almost any situation, thing or person - if someone is determined to take the negative view, I doubt that it can be disproved. In the end it's just a matter of opinion... IMHO"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (20:31)", "body": "Kali, you said ] Perhaps \"shared moral sensibilities\" is a better term? and also to say that every person subcribes to them is inaccurate, but to say that most people do, to varying degrees, captures the general universality of a thought without ignoring the complexities of human nature. There are no \"absolute\" truths, but there are functional ones. Kali, yes I do agree with that, it was the absolutes in your and Eric's earlier posts that I disagreed with. I would rephrase Eric's statement as Most of us hold to moral absolutes of some sort and some of us seek to persuade others that we are correct. the bold areas are my substitutions (apologies to Eric). As I said earlier, I don't think JA is a moralist; she is certainly moral, but I don't think that she is trying to convert others to her views, and I think one must want to convince others of the truth of one's own moral views to be considered a moralist. Kali, do you think that JA is really intending to suggest how one should proceed in various situations , or does she just deal with her characters as seems right to her, without any didactic intent?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (22:07)", "body": "I must say that I agree with Anna Price, Donna and Joan on this one. Not everyone is a moralist, Eric. There surely must be people who would admit they have not a clue as to what's the best way to behave in every situation but they are doing the best they can taking each case as it comes. Everything indicates that JA was this type of person. She had likes and dislikes, but she never attempts to say these should be our likes and dislikes. As Anna and Joan say, the material point is whether JA is trying to convince us that her principles are the right ones in every case. And again I say that JA often seems to mock the idea that her novels must have a \"moral.\" At the end of NA, she says with a shrug something like \"if this story is to encourage long engagements or filial disobedience, I leave it to others to determine.\" To me, that means, in essence, we all can draw whatever conclusions you want about larger lessons in this work, the author is simply happy for her Catherine and her Henry. She is not concerned with teaching us moral lessons."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (15:24)", "body": "Anna and Arnessa, I agree that Jane AUsten is not a \"moralist\" in the sense that her books revolve around a lesson-theme...her main objective, I believe, is to illustrate the subtle humor and irony of life and of human nature through \"slices of life.\" Arnessa, I agree that _NA_ is certainly not lesson-oriented...Catherine spends the whole of the book blissfully ignorant of the motives of those around her. The book presents nothing profound in the morality category, but does give us some very skillful studies of social \"types\" (like Isabella, the coy user) and a clever parody of the \"Gothic\" novel. I would argue, however, that JA frequently offers poignant treatments of relevant human moral-intellectual problems (but not necessarily moral lessons about ethical \"absolutes\"). In P&P especially, she makes no \"editorial endorsement\", but shows us that personal awareness and integrity can be very important indeed. I agree that she herself had high moral standards, and while she may not have aimed to \"force\" them on her readers, she certainly singled out her main characters for special enlightenment and happiness. In _Persuasion_, Anne and Capt. Wentworth demonstrate that true love can indeed wait, in spite of past disasters and obstacles. There is no specific moral \"lesson,\" but then again, what truly believable life situation has a cut-and-dried \"message\" attach ed? Perhaps the most striking feature of Austen's novels is that they are so believable...they could be vignettes from real life...not so much in subject but in action and reaction. Anne and Capt. Wnetworth have certainly learned from their own experien es, but we as the readers can't readily take those experiences and try to apply them directly and immediately to our own lives (in the same way we could theoretically apply a \"moral lesson\"). The beauty lies not in the instructive moral value of the situ ation, but in the situation's ability to reveal truths about human nature and the value of learning from one's own life and experiences. From left field, Kali"}, {"response": 35, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (15:41)", "body": "I feel that a great part of the timeless appeal of Jane Austen's novels lies in the fact that she is a superb story teller who enjoys the characters she has created. Her letters seem to show that, for her, they have taken on a life of their own. And so they do for us. I suspect that morality or irony is not intentional, but a by-product of her art. She is not teaching, but entertaining (both herself and her readers). I don't deny that irony and morality may be evident in her work, but I'm not convinc d they are a driver of the work. Is this making sense? Is it off target? I have been very engaged by this discussion, and feel that it is a wonderful outcome of reading Jane Austen. I look forward to more."}, {"response": 36, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (15:43)", "body": "I feel that a great part of the timeless appeal of Jane Austen's novels lies in the fact that she is a superb story teller who enjoys the characters she has created. Her letters seem to show that, for her, they have taken on a life of their own. And so they do for us. I suspect that morality or irony is not intentional, but a by-product of her art. She is not teaching, but entertaining (both herself and her readers). I don't deny that irony and morality may be evident in her work, but I'm not convinc d they are not a driver of the work. Is this making sense? Is it off target? I have been very engaged by this discussion, and feel that it, in itself, is a wonderful outcome of reading Jane Austen. I look forward to more. The recently arrived, Myretta"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (16:22)", "body": "Arnessa, Kali and Myretta - I'm another one who agrees with all three of your points. Jane Austen does, indeed, tell absolutely marvellous stories filled with interesting characters, but I think she leaves it to the reader to draw his/her own lessons of morality or any other lesson from them. She does write from her own moral point of view but she never tells the reader which character to like or dislike (it just happens that we all like Darcy and Elizabeth above all others, as did JA herself). Maybe - just maybe - there is someone in the world who likes Mr. Collins or Lady C. the best - and thinks that is just the way one should behave. It's unlikely but possible. Then there is Lydia - today not such an immoral, or amoral, character considering that teenagers have children out of wedlock without even bothering to elope first! In other words, I think it depends what the reader brings to the story that makes them moral or not. I certainly don't think JA ever intended them for anything more than enter ainment, both for her own and the readers' pleasures. Arnessa, I have another example of JA's questioning which has always fascinated me. It's in P&P (book) after Darcy leaves Lizzie at the Lambton Inn: \"If gratitude and esteem are good foundations of affection, Elizabeth's change of sentiment will be neither improbable nor faulty. But if otherwise, if the regard springing from such sources is unreasonable or unnatural, in comparison to what is so of ten described as arising on a first interview with its object, and even before two words have been exchanged, nothing can be said in her defence, except that she had given somewhat of a trial to the latter method, in her partiality for Wickham, and that i s ill-success might perhaps authorise her to seek the other less interesting mode of attachment.\" Isn't JA here asking the reader to decide for themselves whether falling in love on first sight is better, equal to, or less satisfactory than falling f or someone after getting to know them. In the end, it's all these little bits and pieces as well as the discussion about them that keeps sending me to JA over any other author. Maybe, one day, I'll get around to reading another book - but for the moment I'm still hooked and there are many boo ks waiting to be read!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (21:33)", "body": "Inko, I think the passage you cite is a perfect example of what I mean when I say that JA is not a moralist. She seems to go out of her way here to say that Lizzy's experiencing \"a less interesting mode of attachment\" is not necessarily a moral choice. After Wickham, Lizzy does not say to herself, \"Well, now I've learned my lesson. I will no longer be seduced by a man with a silver tongue. I will endeavor to look for someone honest, trustworthy, etc. And great thighs wouldn't hurt.\" JA says that Lizzy realizes she's falling in love with Darcy from gratitude and esteem. It just happens that way. And Lizzy really needs no defense, nor should she. But if the reader requires a defense, JA points out that Lizzy had tried love at first sight, and it didn't work for her."}, {"response": 39, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (11:16)", "body": "Inko, I certainly didn't mean to imply that Jane Austen does not write from a moral point of view. I believe that she, like most of us, writes from a moral center. Certain beliefs are the linchpin of our selves and inform the way we communicate. I feel certai n that Jane Austen had a point of view based on her beliefs and I agree that this pervades what she writes. But this is so with all of us. I don't think, however, that it was her intention to promulgate these beliefs through her novels. I think we are greeing on this. I just wanted to clarify my starting point. Happy Thanksgiving to all. Myretta"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (11:32)", "body": "You write well, Myretta."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (13:40)", "body": "'I believe that she, like most of us, writes from a moral center. Certain beliefs are the linchpin of our selves and inform the way we communicate. I feel certain that Jane Austen had a point of view based on her beliefs and I agree that this pervades what she writes. But this is so with all of us. I don't think, however, that it was her intention to promulgate these beliefs through her novels. I think we are greeing on this."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (13:57)", "body": "Sorry, don't know what happened above. I was trying to copy some of Myretta's and others to agree with. I think many of us are close to agreeing - the divide between showing by delicate illustration, and writing from a strong moral centre, is a subtle one . But, back to irony, what if the apparent moral centre is rotten? Arnessa, love the line about the thighs! LOL."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (17:11)", "body": "The fact that JA had the courage to portray Mr. Collins in such a light is truely amazing to me is definitly a ironic twist since her father was a minister unless she relly knew such a person.I wonder if he knew himself? Could it be that she was teasing h er father or Mrs. B. was like her mother.I have to finish reading JA letters maybe this will help. Also from what I understand Cassandra burnt the largest amount of her letters. Was she twisted and bitter? I don't thinks so."}, {"response": 44, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (17:28)", "body": "I believe that Cassandra burned letters that contained intensely personal stuff that she knew that JA would not have wanted anyone else to be able to read - and, although I would be quite interested in reading these, I also feel that it was proper for Cas sandra to have done this - in the spirit of \"do unto others\", were I to be in JA's shoes, I know that I would not want the entire world to have the capability of reading my most personal thoughts."}, {"response": 45, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (19:59)", "body": "Thanks for the compliment, Amy. I enjoy writing but don't get much of a chance in the \"computer biz\". It's nice to have a place to give it some exercise. Hilary - I think that, if the apparent moral center is rotten, it cannot be disguised by irony. Irony would also lose its bite if we were not the \"privileged audience\" who recognizes the object for what it is. That is, we are agreeing with the writer t hat Mr. Collins behaviour is ridiculous. If her writing did not spring from a moral center with which we feel an affinity, we would not respond the way we do to the treatment of her characters. I can't help but feel that irony from an apparently rotten oral core would be mean spirited and derisive and that we would see it as such. And it would probably not be a work which we would read again and again. Sorry to go on so. I'll say good night for now. Myretta"}, {"response": 46, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (10:47)", "body": "I think we can all agree that Jane Austen's morality is very much of the 18th century when she actualy wrote P&P (as opposed to its 19th c. publication date). I have two comments: I cannot stand the priggish moralising of Fanny Price in MANSFIELD PARK, my least favorite of the Austen novels, and I believe that Martin Amis hares this opinion; and here's a question: How do you think Austen's sense of morality contrasts with George Eliot's (Mary Ann Evans); Charlotte Bronte's?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (13:01)", "body": "Fanny Price a \"prig\"? Watch it, Ms. Amy2, them thar's fightin' words!!! I actually have assembled a collection of quotes where Jane Austen gently laughs at Fanny Price . And you can also look at commentary and links on Miss Fanny Price as a topic of controversy in the Austen-L list..."}, {"response": 48, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (13:03)", "body": "Fanny Price a \"prig\"? Watch it, Ms. Amy2, them thar's fightin' words!!! I actually have assembled a collection of quotes where Jane Austen gently laughs at Fanny Price . And you can also look at commentary and links on Miss Fanny Price as a topic of controversy in the Austen-L list..."}, {"response": 49, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (13:56)", "body": "I am quoting Martin Amis here. Alas, I agree. I thoroughly love all of the other Austen heroines, but just cannot get into Fanny. When Austen set out to write a \"novel about the clergy\" she may have succeeded too well, IMHO."}, {"response": 50, "author": "EricB", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (14:20)", "body": "This thread has proceeded apace since last I was able to write for it. Before I get to where it is, let me go back a bit and answer a question. Anna, I believe, asked why I believe everyone holds to moral absolutes of some sort. I believe it because, as far as I can figure out, it is not possible to not hold to moral absolutes of some sort. Take, for instance, the proposition: THERE ARE NO MORAL ABSOLUTES. That is a moral proposition and it lays an absolute claim to the non-existence of absolu es and is therefore self-contradictory. Everyone believes that some things are right and some things are wrong and that these things are right or wrong for all people, all places, and all times. Granted, some have rather extensive lists of things they believe right and wrong for everyone. Such people are almost certainly mistaken. Others have very minimal lists - even fewer than the classic ten. Indeed, when it gets down to bare necessities, the Hebrew and Christian Bible teaches but two: Love the Lo d your God with all your being and love your neighbor as yourself. Bringing these principles to fruition in the lives of ordinary people, however long or short one's list may be, is complicated. It is both more and less cut and dried than most of us believe - if our beliefs may fairly be judged by our actions, anyway. Jane Austen recognizes this. Indeed, it may be fairly said that this is the primary moralism of her novels: Morality is both more complicated than the Mr. Collins or Mariannes of this world believe it to be, and less complicated than the wiley (early) Elizabeths or Mr. Darcys believes. And JA makes this point in the most convincing way possible, by demonstration from life through stories so real, so emminently believable that we come to share her conclusions so naturally it hardly seems she has intenti nally made any point at all. Even in her stories which shun concluding morals or mock them, her point is that life cannot be so readily reduced in the way Mary or Mr. Collins reduce it. And in stories like Emma and Pride and Prejudice , she makes a more gentle mockery of those who unnecessarily complicate life as well. If a moralist is one who envisions a moral truth and seeks to persuade others of that truth, then I believe JA to be a moralist. I believe she intends to make a point, even if the point is that not everything in life has a moral point or is reducable to a moral cliche (which is, by the way, a moral judgement). If, however, a moralist is someone who reduces life to a mere sequence of moral acts in which every choice is a moral choice (ala Mr. Collins) or a moral object lesson (ala Mary) with a cle r right and everything else wrong, then I must accept that JA is no moralist. I understand the word moralist in the broader sense, which is why I say JA is a moralist. The primary moral truth I glean from Jane Austen's writings is that life is not always reducable to the moral, and that the part of life which is moral is a continuum in which some things are definitely right, others definitely wrong, but most morally related choices are rather more or less one of them than absolutely so. In Pride and Pr judice, for example, only Jane is absolutely good and only Wickham is absolutely bad. And even they have displeasing and pleasing characteristics, though these are not necessarily of a moral nature. The rest are a moral mix, more or less one than the other but not pure by any means. This essay has gotten rather longer than I had intended and is long enough to fuel a bit more discussion, I think, so I shall let it go here for now. I shall only add that it is a pleasure to discuss such a topic amongst such astute and perceptive people - though disagreeing, in no way disagreeable."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (16:21)", "body": "Eric, I agree with much of what you are saying, particularly when you get to specific examples from P&P, but I have a problem with absolute statements. Part of the problem may lie in terminology; I have very rarely had a general discussion on morals in daylight and sober, and am not at all acquainted with 'formal' or academic terminology in this field THERE ARE NO MORAL ABSOLUTES. That is a moral proposition ? I would rather have thought it it a logical proposition. In any case, how about 'There are probably no moral absolutes'. Everyone believes that some things are right and some things are wrong and that these things are right or wrong for all people, all places, and all times. I agree with the first half, but I'm not convinced about the second half of your statement above - absolutes again! I can see it for most, but not all people. In particular, what about those people sometimes labelled 'sociopaths' (I use the term instead of 'psychopath' because I want to avoid confusion with 'psychotic'), admittedly very rare and by most definitions insane, but any exception will disprove an absolute statement. I cannot accept what appears to be a blanket \"me first\" approach as a moral bsolute; absolute certainly, but not moral. If a moralist is one who envisions a moral truth and seeks to persuade others of that truth, then I believe JA to be a moralist... The primary moral truth I glean from Jane Austen's writings is that life is not always reducable to the moral, and that the part of life which is moral is a continuum in which some things are definitely right, others definitely wrong, but most morally related choices are rather more or less one of them than absolutely so. I concur with this definition of 'moralist', and pretty much with your opinion on Jane Austen's ideas of moral truth, but I don't see why you think Jane Austen intended to persuade others of that truth. This may be just a matter of opinion, but do you have any evidence other than an interpretation of the text? Wickham is absolutely bad why absolutely bad? I've always considere him to be much like Lydia, amoral rather than immoral, and although his behaviour in P&P is bad, I think a certain resentment of the Darcys' many priviledges compared to his lack thereof is understandable. in fascination Anna"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (04:21)", "body": "Eric - I was going to say above, but was distracted by your argument; Welcome Back : ) I had this uncomfortable feeling that we had left this topic hanging - we may end up having to agree to disagree, but I don't think we've got that far yet..."}, {"response": 53, "author": "EricB", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (16:11)", "body": "The statement \"There are no moral absolutes\" is a proposition. It is neither logical nor illogical at this point, but simply a proposition. It pertains to morals, however, and is therefore a moral proposition just as is the statement \"Morals exist\". As a moral proposition, it precludes certain moral principles (i.e, mutilating babies is always bad) and requires others (tolerance of baby-mutilators is not always good, but sometimes is). In other words, it becomes a foundational (and therefore absolute) principle for the construction of a moral system. Since the foundational proposition (There are no moral absolutes) is self-contradictory, that proposition and the moral system constructed upon it must be false. Therefore, \"There are moral absolutes\" is true. That people all hold to moral absolutes is to me self-evident. Even the sociopath (and psychopath) believe in moral absolutes. Usually it is, at the very least, \"Thou shalt not harm me.\" There are others. Nazis - to my mind, sociopaths par excellence - believe that there is a moral requirement to exterminate Jews. They believe this to be absolutely true, that is, true for all people everywhere. They believe this even to the point of believing the Jews should willingly turn themselves in to be exterm nated. (As I said, they are sociopaths and not rational.) That does not mean that the principle they hold to as a moral absolute is in fact a moral absolute, a distinction I made earlier. Even the most committed moral relativist is forced to grant that some moral principles are absolute or collapse into irrationality (and I have spoken to many of the latter). Let me give an example. I say \"Morals are all relative\" (an equivalent statement to \"There are no moral absolutes\"). Along comes Ralph. Ralph says, \"You're right. There are no moral absolutes and each of us is able to come up with our own personal, relative morality.\" \"Amen,\" says I. \"We wouldn't want people imposing their moral absolutes on others.\" \"Absolutely,\" Ralph chimes in. \"In my morality,\" he continues, \"it is essential that all left-handed females of Dutch ancestry be burned in oil.\" It just so happens that my ife fits that category. \"Wait!\" I exclaim. \"You can't do that - that's wrong!\" \"Don't go imposing your morality on me!\" rejoins Ralph. All of a sudden, I do not believe morals are relative. I believe there is at least one moral absolute - killing my wife is wrong. I don't care who, where, or when. It is an absolute moral principle. If there are no moral absolutes, then moral judgements can apply only to the first person, singular, i.e, to me. I cannot apply them to you or to them or even to us, much less to him or her. As soon as I pass judgement on another's actions (even in a case as obvious as the above) then I have established that some moral principles apply to all. Since we all do this, it follows that we all hold to moral absolutes of some sort or another. Three things, then, are established. 1)Moral absolutes exist; 2)All individuals hold to moral absolutes of some sort; 3)The moral absolutes which exist are not necessarily those to which individuals hold. Jane Austen holds that some things are absolutely bad in a moral sense. Trifling with young, immature girls in order to satisfy ones sexual and/or financial lusts is evil. Wickham is not a-moral. He is evil. He uses other people, particularly women, but not restricted to them. He uses Mr. Darcy, Lt. Denny, Col. Forster, Mr. Bennet, Mr. Gardiner, Elizabeth, Lydia, Mrs. Phillips, Mary King, Mrs. Forster, Mrs. Bennet, Mrs. Young, Georgiana Darcy, and others - all to satisfy his own selfish lusts. No, W ckham is positively bad in P&P (unlike Mr. Willoughby in the movie version of Sense & Sensiblity). Lydia is more bad than good, but mostly just stupid and foolish. Lizzie is more good than bad, but too clever by half. And Jane is good, though her goodness misleads her. And here we see Jane Austen's worldview - some things are definitely evil, some definitely good, most both though more one than the other, and some things may have pleasing or unpleasing consequences but are not necessarily moral in nat re. I believe JA intends to make a point because people who have no point to make do not write. They watch TV. It's good to be back."}, {"response": 54, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (17:39)", "body": "] I believe JA intends to make a point because people who have no point to make do not write. They watch TV. Actually, the early 19th century equivalent of watching TV was reading silly novels rented from ``circulating libraries'', and Jane Austen did that in abundance..."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (18:20)", "body": "Anna, Eric, I replied to you yesterday, but for some reason it hasn't shown up. What I wanted to say was that I agreed with much of what Eric said several posts ago, but like Anna, feel uncomfortable about moral absolutes. I shall now have to go and think about Eric's next installment, but I think I will remain uncomfortable with that idea. I think we more-or less agree about JA as moralist, though, Eric. I questioned why you thought the early E & D saw non-existant complexities in life. I don't think they do. Emma on the other hand, does, and it is her struggle with being unable to resist the temptations of imagining more than actually exists without regard to the consequences, that is the core of the story. I also said that I saw Wickham as immoral, because he knows perfectly well what he is about, whereas Lydia is ammoral, mostly because she is too dense to concern herself with thinking about anything. We seem to agree on this point, Eric."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (19:57)", "body": "Yes I agree Wickham is a leacher of the worst kind. Lydia on the other hand sees this as a triumph over her sisters and it seems more so over Lizzie since she thought Lizzie had her eye on him. From what she has learnt{from her mother} it isn't wrong to get a husband anyway she could. Do you think if Lizzie told her about Wickham's past that this would have stopped her?"}, {"response": 57, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (19:58)", "body": "This argument is very interesting to me because a writing classmate of mine is currently being excoriated on GEnie for publishing a story in ASIMOV's some perceive as \"immoral.\" So I think we can see that the issue of morality in fiction is as highly charged today as it was in Austen's day. . ."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (20:04)", "body": "I'm of the opinion that if Lizzy had told Lydia about Wickham, Lydia would have taken it more as encouragement than dis couragement!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "carolee", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (22:01)", "body": "Do you not think that if Lydia had known of Wickham's past that she might have \"prided\" herself on \"having made an honest man of him\"?"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (01:32)", "body": "Eric, as I said yesterday I think part of our difference of opinion is arising from a problem in terminology; Originally in your proposition \"That all people all hold to moral absolutes\" I had thought you were using the word 'moral' to mean 'thought of as good by society in general' (I've most often seen the word used that way), but it now seems that you are using it to indicate a class of argument (I'm sorry that may not be very clear, but it's the best I can do), in which case I agree with you. Similarly when I said that \"That all people all hold to moral absolutes\" is a logical statement I meant logical as opposed to emotional or moral; ie a class of argument, I wasn't saying that I thought it logical as opposed to illogical. Mind you, if I understand the way in which you are using the word 'moral', the statement is logical in both senses of the word. However, I'm still not convinced that Jane Austen intends to persuade others of the truth of her moral absolutes. Do you not think it possible that she wrote for the pleasure of telling a story well, entertainment for it's own sake? I thought that when she first wrote she did so for her family's pleasure and she didn't expect to publish her stories. Her family probably shared her moral absolutes, at least on the whole; why would Jane have felt the need to persuade them?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (08:22)", "body": "Do you not think it possible that she worte for the pleasure and she didn't expect to publish her stories. The reason I beleive it be true. Mr. Darcy was the epitome of the sort of man she would want to marry. Mr. Collins and Wickham would not be."}, {"response": 62, "author": "EricB", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (17:28)", "body": "People who have no point to make, do not write. The energy necessary to write and write well is not sustainable if one has no message, no point to convey. Art must express something, must communicate a message or it is not art and it is not done. With all due respect, H.C., there is a vast difference between reading \"silly novels\" (or watching television) and writing the same. The latter invariably have a point to make via their action, the former do not. Even modern sit-com writers have a point to m ke no matter how pointless their viewers may be. I shall be away all next week. I trust you will manage to carry on without me. ;-)"}, {"response": 63, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (17:34)", "body": "Aren't there any writers out there who put pen to paper simply for the joy of it?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (21:49)", "body": "Yes, all writers have a point, but not necessarily a moral one, not necessarily pertaining to good and evil."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (21:55)", "body": "Amy2, I understand your problem with Fanny. She's almost too good. I can't muster anything more than a mild goodwill towards her, but each time I read Mansfield Park, I find myself less and less able to hate her. I might want to shake her up a bit, though, and say. \"Girl, get a life.\""}, {"response": 66, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (21:55)", "body": "Amy2, I understand your problem with Fanny. She's almost too good. I can't muster anything more than a mild goodwill towards her, but each time I read Mansfield Park, I find myself less and less able to hate her. I might want to shake her up a bit, though, and say. \"Girl, get a life.\""}, {"response": 67, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (15:09)", "body": "I understand the problem with Fanny, too. I don't find her an attractive character, but then maybe that is part of the point, if you will allow a point to be made - integrity can exist where you least expect it, and where it is not obvious."}, {"response": 68, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (15:57)", "body": "I guess I find myself getting a little nervous when authors get overly religious. I experience the same discomfort around Fanny as I do around some of Anne Bronte's heroines. I dearly love the works of the latter, but sometimes her piety gets a bit much. . ."}, {"response": 69, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (21:44)", "body": "Amy2, Fanny Price has a stricter view of social morality, learned from Edmund, and this morality is religiously based, as morality then was at that time for most people (excluding philosophers and advanced thinkers) -- BUT, I just don't see where Austen presents us with Fanny's \"Piety\" or specifically religious devotion. There's her perhaps somewhat strict view of social morality (learned from Edmund), and her naive gushings of enthusiasm over the profession of clergyman (the profession that Edmund is entering into), but there's hardly anything specifically religious about her character except her regret that the custom of assemblying the household for prayer in the chapel at Sotherton has been allowed to lapse. ( Jane Eyre has much more explicit religious references than Mansfield Park , I think..)"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (22:19)", "body": "Hilary, where did you find the Conrad piece that started this morality thread? I desperately want to read it all. Reading parts of it on old BB, I remember thinking of what they say about tabloid newspapers: It's all accurate but none of it's true. I got the feeling he sort of took bits and pieces of Austen's novel and strung them together in odd ways to make his points. But I want to be sure."}, {"response": 71, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (10:57)", "body": "Mysterious H.C.: I know that Fanny isn't expressing any _specific_ religiosity in the book -- I guess it's her shock at putting on a play & as you say her social morality that gets my goat. Whereas someone like Elizabeth probably would have laughed at the amateur theatrics, Fanny carries on like Napoleon's invaded the drawing room. Perhaps the religion in JANE EYRE is more in accord with a modern sensibility, and that's why it doesn't bother me quite so much. I would not call Jane E. a prig."}, {"response": 72, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (11:09)", "body": "H.C., Either Edmund is an amazing student or Fanny an amazing student, if that's where she learned her social morality. Somehow Edmund's convictions went all mushy on him for a whiled. I must say I find the idea of a house party theatrical quite jolly. Imagine if this group could take over Pemberley, and put on a really smashing version of something that required us to all dye our hair black or brown and wear lots of top hats, corsets, pelisses.."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (11:10)", "body": "Oh-oh. Careful Amy2 and H. This is heating up. We all know what can happen... Now, let me stir the pot a little more. What about Edmund, for heaven's sake? Talk about prissy! My least favorite Austen hero. He hasn't even much humor. Not that I like Mary so much, but whatever did she see in him besides his admiration for her? Amy"}, {"response": 74, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (11:11)", "body": "Look, Jane. 5:73 &73 We were both thinking about Edmund at the same time. Amy"}, {"response": 75, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (11:17)", "body": "I'm debating with myself over whether I should jump into this Fanny discussion. I agree with Amy that they are my least favorite of Austen's protagonists. There is something about them and their relationship that has always made my skin crawl. Perhaps it's just a 20th century perspective on a perfectly normal 19th century mindset. I'll keep on debating for now. Myretta"}, {"response": 76, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (16:10)", "body": "I haven't read MANSFIELD PARK for awhile -- I do remember being so disappointed in it compared to J.A.'s other novels. I dearly love the other five, but just can't get into Fanny & Co. What was Jane thinking? Did she really intend to write a novel \"about the clergy\"?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (16:43)", "body": "The famous quote from her letters was that Mansfield Park was to be a novel \"about ordination\"..."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (17:09)", "body": "Arnessa : The Conrad essay is the introduction to Everyman's paperback P&P, reprinted 1996, ISBN 0 460 87212 5. I agree, HC, that Jane Eyre is much more overtly religious and pious - its one reason I don't like it. Amy2, I felt the same way about the theatricals, but there is an enlightening discussion about it in Stuart Tave's book (Some Words of JA). He says that; 'The point is rather that the private theatricals at MP are not obviously wrong. If they were they would not serve their major purpose as an episode in the novel, which is to present almost all the chartacters with an occasion in common, when they must make proper choices, with varying degrees of awareness, from a variety of personal circumstances, at an unusual time. If the circumstances were ordinary and the proper conduct were evident or an authoritative voice were there to point out what should or sho ld not be done' the points that JA makes about her characters would not be made."}, {"response": 79, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (10:55)", "body": "What about Anne Bronte's TENANT OF WILDFELL HALL and AGNES GREY? She always struck me as being the most overtly pious of the three writing Bronte sisters. I'm sure JA had a point to make about Fanny's abhorence of the theatrics in MP, but it just seems so silly today. I don't know, does anyone here have the same passion around Fanny and Edmund that we do about Lizzy & Darcy? It just seems to me that all the other pairs of lovers in the JA canon are much more 3-D than those in MP."}, {"response": 80, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (14:01)", "body": "Fanny actually was quite attracted to the teatricals, thats partly why it was such a dilema. But I've said I don't like MPnearly as much as others."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (22:14)", "body": "] does anyone here have the same passion around Fanny and Edmund that we do about Lizzy and Darcy No, of course not, but I don't think Austen intended us to. I don't see MP as primarily a story about courtship, as P&P is (or S&S or Persuasion). That may be the problem you're having with it, Amy2--maybe you should readjust your expectations when you next read it and try to see it as a novel with a broader scope, of which Fanny's & Edmund's relationship is only one part. True, Fanny is the heroine & she does get her man, but I don't think that's Austen's chief interest in the book. At one point she ells us straight out that if Edmund had married Mary, Fanny would have married Henry--so bringing F & E together was not her real interest. I like MP very much but I think that in order to get from it all it really has to give, you have to approach it differently than the other novels. It's not a comedy & it's not about courtship, but it has many riches of other kinds. True, Fanny is a bit of a drip, but she's so diffident that you don't have to root for her in order to enjoy the book."}, {"response": 82, "author": "arnessa", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (21:56)", "body": "Yes, Jane. House party theatricals would be quite jolly. One day maybe they'll figure out how to do theatre on the net. Then we'd be all set."}, {"response": 83, "author": "EricB", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (15:08)", "body": "\"House party theatricals would be quite jolly.\" They are. We did a couple of those \"How to Host a Murder\" games with church couples groups - each guest is given a character and a booklet that tells them what they know suspicious about others (stuff they want to make sure others know) and nasty stuff about themselves which they want to conceal. The setting is usually some sort of feed, so as they eat, they act out their respective characters' roles in this murder investigation. It's lots of fun with the right set of people. And if Fanny doesn't like it, Fanny can go plant her fanny on the commode where she won't interfere. Harrummpphh"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (15:30)", "body": "All right, Eric. Our kind of clergy. We have missed you."}, {"response": 85, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (16:05)", "body": "Anne3: (And we only have 2 amys!) I understand your point-of-view about MANSFIELD PARK. I guess the two things I primarily love about Austen are the courtship and the humor, and when these two components are missing, I get a little grumpy. To be honest, I'd rather read AGNES GREY or WILDFELL HALL by Anne Bronte for that occasional dose of 19th century piety. . ."}, {"response": 86, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (18:50)", "body": "You crack me up, Eric...:) --- I'd have to agree that MP is not about romance...but it is still just as gratifying! It's about human nature and priorities...and personal integrity...and perhaps most importantly, the private politics of personal relationships. Fanny is certainly no Lizzy, but she understands people and their motivations."}, {"response": 87, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (12:27)", "body": "Just started reading MP; wanted to get Persuasion, but Half Price Books was out of it. I am at Chapter 19; Sir Thomas has just gotten back from Antigua. The foreword did a good job of setting the scene; JA worte this novel much later in life, when she probably knew she would never marry, and intended the theme to be ordination!?! Am enjoying it, but think it's rather sad that JA gave up on romance for herself at such an early (to me;-)) age."}, {"response": 88, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (16:00)", "body": ""}, {"response": 89, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (16:05)", "body": "Mari -- Emma , Persuasion , Sanditon and the revisions to Northanger Abbey (Changing heroine's name from Susan to Catherine) were all done AFTER Mansfield Park was written. By the way, see my \"pro-Fanny\" web-page at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/mnsfnprc.html at the \" Opinions of Mansfield Park \", collected by Jane Austen from friends and family, at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/opmansfp.html"}, {"response": 90, "author": "SILENTDARKNESS", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (22:39)", "body": "IS IT MORALLY WRONG JUST B/C A PERSON MARRIES OUT OF PRACTICAL REASON? ... NO I DON'T THINK SO .... WHERE DO YOU THINK THE SARCASM LIES IN PRIDE AND PREJUDICE ... BESIDES MR. BENNET ....?"}, {"response": 91, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (23:28)", "body": "ssssshhhhhh!!!!!!"}, {"response": 92, "author": "zoe", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "What an interesting topic (But it looks as if it's been dropped, as noone has posted since February)! There's too much to respond to, but I would like to say at least this: I think one JA moral absolute is integrity. As someone pointed out, both Lizzie and Fanny act from motives of personal integrity, and are given JA's stamp of approval because of it. That we like Lizzie and are less inclined toward Fanny is beside the point. Now, of course, the question is what does JA mean by personal integrity?"}, {"response": 93, "author": "zoe", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "What an interesting topic (But it looks as if it's been dropped, as noone has posted since February)! There's too much to respond to, but I would like to say at least this: I think one JA moral absolute is integrity. As someone pointed out, both Lizzie and Fanny act from motives of personal integrity, and are given JA's stamp of approval because of it. That we like Lizzie and are less inclined toward Fanny is beside the point. Now, of course, the question is what does JA mean by personal integrity?"}, {"response": 94, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (21:52)", "body": "``What do you mean \"we\", kemosabe?''"}, {"response": 95, "author": "zoe", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (12:50)", "body": "You're right; I shouldn't have assumed anything, though most people I've talked with do not seem to find Fanny the most attractive of JA's heroines. I don't have strong feelings one way or the other, but having seen the BBC Fanny, I have to admit a fondness for the character because the actress and her portrayal remind me so much of one of my best friends in college."}, {"response": 96, "author": "LorieS", "date": "Tue, May 20, 1997 (12:22)", "body": "Hi, I'm new and just thought I'd stick in my two cents worth. MP doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bug some others who've posted here, but it seems to me that it was written with a sense of her own historical place (unlike other novels which seem written simply to amuse, entertain). JA seems to feel that being who she is and being published have changed the rules (I know I'm not expressing this well) and that she now must write a novel with a purpose and theme appropriate for a clergyman's daught r. I know the books weren't published with her name on them, but it seems to me that, as shown by the instructions for Cassandra to burn letters, she was starting to realize that her works of fiction would live on past her and that her privacy wouldn't remain intact. And responding to some of the Bronte remarks above, I don't find Jane Eyre religious in the same way -- Jane's rebelliousness and rejection of traditional religiousity (in the person of St. John, Mr. Brocklehurst, honoring her Aunt, etc.) make her much more rebellious than Fanny or anyone else in MP. And to defend my darling Anne Bronte, the herione of \"The Tenant of Wildfell Hall\" is deeply religious, yet willing to defy the dictates of her religion to leave her husband, and thus save her child and hers lf from his evil influence. Kind of makes her sound like a modern woman, doesn't it? I really enjoyed reading all of this thread, and am looking forward to making my way around the conference and reading more! Thanks."}, {"response": 97, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May 20, 1997 (13:02)", "body": "Thank you!"}, {"response": 98, "author": "Beaver", "date": "Wed, May 21, 1997 (15:16)", "body": "Terry sent me an e-mail asking me to post something on Spring to help test his server and I could not help but return to this old thread of ours, six months since last I posted to it. I would not have expected our musings of November and December to still be so readily available in this medium. It is gratifying that they are and that they still fuel new thoughts and ideas in people who stumble upon them."}, {"response": 99, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jun  8, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "I have never understood why people believe MP breaks with JA's usual morality. I don't feel that it does so. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 128, "subject": "Help for being here", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (10:15)", "body": "Sorry. My fault. I must have mistakenly \"forgotten\" the topic. I will get rid of this one if I can. Amy [ Alicia's Temp Site ] [ Links ] [FAQ] [ Live Chat in the Pemberley Drawing Room ]"}, {"response": 2, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Oct 24, 2000 (08:03)", "body": "Wonder how chat is going these days? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 13, "subject": "Masterpiece Theatre - George IV tonight.", "response_count": 25, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (07:21)", "body": "You mean The PBS Masterpiece Theatre broadcast of A Royal Scandal , about George the IVth before he was king (Prince of Wales and Prince Regent), and his wife Princess Caroline. According to info posted on Usenet, the actors were Richard Grant and Susan Lynch, and it was narrated by Sir Ian Richardson. For Jane Austen's opinion on this sad affair see http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/jprncwal.html"}, {"response": 2, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (07:33)", "body": "Watched this program w/ great interest. The actress who played Mrs Fitzherbert (Geaorge's first, or only ?, wife) was Irene Richard. She played Charlotte in P&P1 and Elinor in S&S 1."}, {"response": 3, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (07:41)", "body": "You mean The PBS Masterpiece Theatre broadcast of A Royal Scandal , about George the IVth before he was king (Prince of Wales and Prince Regent), and his wife Princess Caroline. According to info posted on Usenet, the actors were Richard Grant and Susan Lynch, and it was narrated by Sir Ian Richardson. For Jane Austen's opinion on this sad affair see http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/jprncwal.html"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (12:30)", "body": "What I want to know is; why are they all wearing white wigs and other such costuming? They look to be dressed like the footman at Netherfield. Did the nobility dress differently from the masses? HC, what say you?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (14:12)", "body": "What period was it set in? Wigs went out during the 1770's and 1780's, I think, but the habit of powdering the hair stayed in fashion longer. Prinny and Caroline were married in the early 1790's..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (14:54)", "body": ""}, {"response": 7, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (14:54)", "body": ""}, {"response": 8, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (14:55)", "body": "Mistakes and twice posted : May I suggests the Regency Fashion Page : http://www.locutus.ucr.edu/~cathy/reg.html Also, further in the same page, the Regency Style Year-by-year, an exhaustive compilation of fashion plates from 1790 and behond : http://www.locutus.ucr.edu/~cathy/1790.html Wonderful."}, {"response": 9, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (15:34)", "body": ""}, {"response": 10, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (15:38)", "body": ""}, {"response": 11, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (15:38)", "body": "I hate to try to correct you when you have been so earnestly trying to correct yourself, but I think the \"fron door\" to the Regency Fashion page is at: http://locutus.ucr.edu/~cathy/reg3.html"}, {"response": 12, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (22:28)", "body": "Thanks Henri. Got to get some zzz's (I know, no excuses) so I can watch this series which will air tomorrow night ;)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Paola", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (16:58)", "body": "If white wigs were in fashion during the 1770's and Pride and Prejudice was written around 1775 (I think) that means that Mr. Darcy and Mr. Bingley wore them. How horrible! They are rather unattractive. Paola"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (17:00)", "body": "Paola, P&P was written in 1813."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "Paola and Cheryl: P&P was started in October 1796 under the title \"First Impressions\". It was completed in August 1797 for the amusement of family and friends. It was offered for publication by her father, but was refused. She revised it again (after several revisions) in 1811-12 and finally published in 1813. Anyway, I think white wigs were out of fashion in ordinary society by that time."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Paola", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "Oops. I wasn't very sure but I remember hearing the year 1775 somewhere. Anyways, I am glad white wigs were out of fashion by then. One more thing, a couple of days ago when watching P&P for the 100th time I noticed that you can see Colin Firth's make-up line (between his shirt collar and his chin) when he kisses Elizabeth. Did anyone else noticed it? Paola"}, {"response": 17, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (16:10)", "body": "I noticed that you can see Colin Firth's make-up line (between his shirt collar and his chin) when he kisses Elizabeth If you're noticing his make-up line, it's time to turn off the VCR for a while."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:00)", "body": "LOL, Myretta! And Paola I must say I agree with Myretta. Somehow you appear to be somewhat out of focus ;=] Try to avoid the video for one hour at first ,then two and so on and who knows ,one day may come when you find you have not been near P&P2 for 24 hours. Then you'll have regained some control at the very least. After that you migth need a dose of priprejudin and you would be entitled to it!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:09)", "body": "Ann2...are you still around? Come to Pemberley my dear...;-)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Paola", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "When I noticed his make-up line it was quite by accident and I wasn't watching it in slow-motion or anything like that. I just happened to glance at his neck and then I wondered why on earth part of his skin was a shade darker than the other. Paola"}, {"response": 21, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (11:09)", "body": "I refuse to let you all spoil my illusions -- Could not the difference in skin color be the direct result of a tan line caused by Mr. Darcy's frequent dips in his pond while still clothed? ;-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Paola", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (12:40)", "body": "It is very unlikely Candace given that the lighter shade of his skin was his face and the darker was what was concealed under his collar. If he had got a tan then wouldn't his face be darker than his neck and not the other way around? Paola"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (16:23)", "body": "Paola, you made me go back to my tape just to see what you were talking about! As far as I could tell, it's a shadow from his stand-up collar. As be bends his head, the collar casts the shadow because the lighting is from that side! I'd never noticed it before and it never bothered me!;-)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "Paola; I had noticed in almost the first viewing, and did then, and do still, think that it is a line caused by the pressure of the edge of the starched collar pressing against the neck; the discomfort of these detachable collars is certainly well documented."}, {"response": 25, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (08:02)", "body": "Paola, the \"1775\" date may be from Sheridan's play The Rivals (one of my favorites), which mentions in the first scene that de-wigging is going down the social scale. Similarly, in Fanny Burney's 1777 novel Evelina , a young foppish upper-class character wouldn't be caught dead in a dowdy wig. But I think that old-fashioned types did continue to wear wigs for a while... austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 130, "subject": "P&P lines for everything", "response_count": 31, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (00:05)", "body": "Perfect P&P line for a sysop: Even if I wished to I could not. Amy"}, {"response": 2, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (00:29)", "body": "Amy, your graphic would not load."}, {"response": 3, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (00:30)", "body": "Amy, your graphic would not load."}, {"response": 4, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (00:32)", "body": "(((oh no, not again!)))"}, {"response": 5, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (03:49)", "body": "\"unknown error code #00???\" = \"I leave that for yourself to determine\" P&P, Mr. Bennett, chapter 23."}, {"response": 6, "author": "panache", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (20:55)", "body": "Suitable for any social gathering where your (spouse or teenager) is sullenly refusing to mingle with your (P&P2 friends or business associates or relatives from out of state): \"I hate to see you standing about in this stupid manner.\" (To be accompanied by the amiable-but-concerned Bingley smile)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (21:10)", "body": "Good one, Cecily. ] \"I hate to see you standing about in this stupid manner.\" (To be accompanied by the amiable-but-concerned Bingley smile) You know what I like too? Lizzy's smile when she hears it."}, {"response": 8, "author": "panache", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (21:11)", "body": "Well, I most vexed at the print-out of my above entry; it was truly not meant to resemble some sort of neo-poetic stanza (away from me, you extra Enter key hits!). So let's have another go at a P&P line; I hesitate due to its being better placed in the amy/hchurch crypto-thread, due to its daggier nuance. Consider the source: the grampus-wallowing Mr. Collins made frequent references to the [Rosings fireplace] \"of prodigious proportions\" to the point of utter inanity. I submit that the phrase could be used under many other circumstances-- say, for instance, when boasting of one's new car engine, new Wal-Mart store, or even new Darcy pinup photo. %-}"}, {"response": 9, "author": "panache", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (21:24)", "body": "Hulloo, Amy! If I may be so bold, I perceive everyone who joins in here at the 3 P&P2 sites (yours, Alicia's, and Kathleen's) as... \"with great spirit among her [his] friends; for she [he] had a lively, playful disposition, which delighted in anything ridiculous.\""}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (21:27)", "body": "] \"with great spirit among her [his] friends; for she [he] had a lively, playful disposition, which delighted in anything ridiculous.\" ___________ Not bold, C. I am honored to have gathered these types around me. Looks like we are on at the same time. Meet you in chat in a few? Amy"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (09:27)", "body": "The next time you are in a meeting, or a club, etc., and someone is annoying you, say to them, I never have desired your good opinion, and you have certainly bestowed it most unwillingly. Hopefully, this will get rid of them. P&P Chapter 34."}, {"response": 12, "author": "fen", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (15:48)", "body": "\"Had you behaved in a more gentlemanlike manner\" works in almost any m/f situation where conflict occurs through the man's fault, and several lines from Lady Catherine to Lizzie might work if conflict is the woman's fault (\"selfish girl\" etc.) I am not speaking of present company, but persons in general."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (16:56)", "body": "I frequently find those lines useful: Is this to be endured? (e.g. When library visitor's are especially tiresome & demanding) I'm all astonishment! (When some one tells a daggy joke for example) Be not alarmed, Madam... (trying to comfort fellow worker when work piles up) What is to become of us? (heavy cutting down on library budget)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (08:58)", "body": "\"In vain I have struggled. It will not do.\" (Trying to piece together Barbie's camper at 1:00 am Christmas morning.)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (11:48)", "body": "Is Barbie's camper more difficult than adding up the Girl Scout cookie matrix?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (13:42)", "body": "I was at a business meeting recently with too many bigshots, and I kept trying to say something, but got cut off. I felt just like Mr. Bingley after the Pemberley piano party, when his sister is criticizing Elizabeth, and he says: \"I think..\" but gets cut off. I need a bit more of Darcy's presence, I fear."}, {"response": 17, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (14:57)", "body": "Ah, but Jane -- if Darcy were present, how would you be able to concentrate on what was being discussed at the meeting? ;-)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (16:20)", "body": "Kathleen, very true! And I fear I would be just like Miss Bingley, trying to impress him and saying all the wrong things."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (01:14)", "body": "I fear I'm maybe the weirdest person amongst us. More than once have I actually felt my head moving or my lips being pressed together exactly the way Darcy does it!!! Or mine eyes wandering off afar... And Jane's mouth too, in the assembly scene when Lizzy says after first Darcy rudeness that maybe D is not so handsome after all certainly nothing to Mr Bingley !"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (08:03)", "body": "How about: Oh, you take delight in vexing me! I am going to make it up as sign and hang it above my computer ;-)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (08:22)", "body": "Ann and I thought up a good P&P2 drinking game...you glug every time someone says indeed. Two, three, four, five, and whole-glass glugs can be assigned to other words/phrases of the party's choosing. Each player can select a particular character, for example, and rate certain characteristic phrases/actions/habits of that character by glugs. There are so many possiblities...;)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (12:30)", "body": "The P&P2 drinking game..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (12:31)", "body": ""}, {"response": 24, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (13:05)", "body": ""}, {"response": 25, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (15:57)", "body": "Under the table ........... asleep ....... zzzzzz ........"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:54)", "body": "The \"loaded\" face looks quite like Mr. Hurst's..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (18:36)", "body": "\"Happy thought indeed!\" can be applied to any situation where someone obviously wants you to agree with them, and for fear of hurting their feelings, you hide your true feelings of disagreement. I must add that I love it at the assembly ball when Mr. Hurst pounds on the table for another pint!!!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "michy", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (13:44)", "body": "test"}, {"response": 29, "author": "holly", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (15:53)", "body": "this is only a test."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (21:31)", "body": "Hello!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Oct 24, 2000 (08:03)", "body": "test austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 131, "subject": "The Spring as a whole and pointers to other topics", "response_count": 181, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (13:05)", "body": "Perhaps this topic will be a place to respond to all the email queries about \"why is this free?\" and \"what can I do to help?\" and other questions along a similar thread. The Spring is building some contract websites. One that is currently under construction is http://www.childrenstory.com I am billing a customer for this website. The revenue will go to replace a badly needed hard drive for one of our servers, make upgrades, and pay our kindly bandwidth provider. So, those of you with website contruction skills, this is something very specific and concrete you can do to help support the Spring and keep it going. You can help build this site, which is going to have a Real Audio server and will provide children with stories in written and spoken form. You can help directly by writing html code (I'll give you access) or you can just make suggestions. I'm going to open a new conference called 'projects' and this will be one of the first topics and we can carry a discussion of how to build and improve this site there. Another website under construction to look at would be: http://www.tvpc.com Let me know!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (13:10)", "body": "A pointer to a new conference: poetry. It just started this morning. I sent out a few invitations. If you have that poem hidden away in the bottom of that sock drawer, type it out and post it. Any poets or poetry lovers here?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (20:38)", "body": "Hey Terry, you can link to or kipe my HTML-ization of George MacDonald's The Light Princess , at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/lprincss.html"}, {"response": 4, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (21:26)", "body": "Oh, HC - do you have any more MacDonald up your electronic sleeve?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (21:55)", "body": "I also converted The Day Boy and the Night Girl (The Romance of Photogen and Nycteris) to HTML, but that was for the CCEL people, and it's on their web-site (you can find it through the CMU on-line books page, or I think there might be a lin k to it at the end of the text of the Light Princess )."}, {"response": 6, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (01:57)", "body": "Who are CCEL? [something] Children's Electronic Literature, perhaps? Do you happen to have a link handy for CMU on-line books?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (08:35)", "body": "\"Christian Classics Ethereal Library\", I think... I'm too lazy to look up the CMU on-line books URL right now, but there's a link to it from the Jane Austen info page at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janeinfo.html"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (14:39)", "body": "I looked at the Jane Austen info page and it's terrific. I got into reading some of Jane Austen's works and I'll be coming back for more visits. What I'd like to do is set up a team of folks who have shell access to this site and who are able to work in various websites of their own and on the projects that I'm developing to help support this conferencing system. Has anyone visited the projects conference yet? I'm on Microsoft Netmeeting all day today so if anyone wants to \"talk\" please drop by. I'm on the uls1.microsoft.com server. You need to have NetMeeting software, which is free from Microsofts site."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (10:53)", "body": "Poor mixu! He's posting all alone in the books conference about his favorite books and putting out a mystery quote for folks to guess. Is anyone up to giving him a bit of company in the 'books' conference? http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/books/all/"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (22:04)", "body": "Check out the interesting comments on community in topic 4 of the community conference and respond, if you care to."}, {"response": 11, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (22:25)", "body": "Terry, are you sure that you mean topic 4? That is the same (linked) topic as the \"ramble\" topic (with a different topic number) here. We don't have to \"go there\" to see it."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (22:50)", "body": "Ooops, no it is the last topic added I believe. What other conferences on the Spring have folks here in Austen been visiting? Any suggestions for new topics elsewhere on the Spring?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (22:54)", "body": "It's topic 5 in community actually."}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (00:24)", "body": "If you want to read some very eloquent stuff: Topic 14 of 14 [music]: Players you have met Response 21 of 21: drymartini (drymartini) * Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (21:27) * 3 lines One of my all-time favorite interviews. Carlos Montoya, playing for a college crowd at Alfred, NY. Small, very dapper guy in this elegant tux, with a white hanky in his breat pocket, folded just so.... [much more]"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (15:42)", "body": "We have got permission from ronks@well.com to reprint his celebrated tech news comments, starting today. Here's a sample: Scientific American has an interesting article in its January 1997 issue about developments in fiber-optic bandwidth and their implications for the telephone industry. Companies including AT&T, Fujitsu, and Nippon T&T have already used a single optical fiber to transmit data over \"many kilometers\" in excess of a trillion bits per second. NEC has gone them one better by using wave division multiplexing to create multiple channels transmitting at different wavelengths; with WDM they sent 132 channels, each carrying 20 billion bits per second, over a single optical fiber. While these \"hero experiments\" are not yet ready for commercial deployment, they seem to demonstrate big changes in store: glass cable is much cheaper than copper, and WDM is said to eliminate both the need for expensive boosters along the path to clean up the signals periodically and for a separate laser on each channel. As the cost of providing humungous bandwidth plummets, the phone companies' revenue and even their monopoly status could be in jeopardy. A rogue spokesman at British Telecom says technology will make \"bandwidth free and distance irrelevant.\" The director of H-P's labs says phone companies will become digital utilities something like the water or the power company, and an independent analyst estimates \"telephone service should cost about three cents a month.\" Check out topic 2 in techbusiness."}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (10:29)", "body": "The Spring was down for the past hour. I apologize to Myretta, Henry and others that may have been trying to access it. I'm going through the log and emailing folks that have tried to access it and letting them know that it's back up. I messed it up this morning trying to reconfigure and restart the logs. If you're interested in the technical details of what I did you can read the sordid details in the web conference. Sorry folks, I'm not happy about being down for an hour this morning."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (10:42)", "body": "That is OK Terry it is working fine now."}, {"response": 18, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (11:23)", "body": "Thanks Terry, happy new year 1997 (it's 1997 already here in Singapore)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (11:23)", "body": "On a cheerier note, Paul McCartney is now Sir Paul McCartney And you can read all the details in the new Sir Paul McCartney topic in the music conference. Please do my a favor. Do a search on Paul McCartney and find a neat website about Paul McCartney, then email the webmaster or whatever email address is listed on their website and ask them to please put a link on their page to our Paul McCartney discussion group. Tell them this is the link to add: http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/public/read/music/16 Let's see if we can honor Paul in this way! Thanks."}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (11:29)", "body": "I'm encouraging folks to do this same kind of thing all over the Spring. If you have a favorite topic, do a search for websites about it and then email the person in charge there to put in a link to the Spring. Just copy the link from your browser window and sub the word public for the word restricted. (test it) Beep beep beep beep yeeeahhh!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (13:44)", "body": "The Spring was down for the past hour. I apologize to Myretta, Henry and others that may have been trying to access it No apology necessary Terry. Been there, done that. All's well, they say, that ends well."}, {"response": 22, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (15:30)", "body": "Terry -- thanks for getting things back together so quickly. I did try to get on this am, and kept getting called an \"Unprivileged User\"!! I was afraid it was something wrong w/ my system, and I am much relieved to see that all is again well. Have a Happy!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (18:07)", "body": "We're back. And I just got back from installing another server on our network. So we even have more ooooomph now."}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (05:38)", "body": "The austen conference is featured today on the Spring's front page. Along with a revision of the whole page. Take a trip through the past in the archives. The new golf site is my sisters (she lives in the SF Bay area)."}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (16:25)", "body": "The restaurants conference has a much bigger menu of topics and a place to talk about the best restaurant in your town and the best restaurant in the world. Any ideas?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (17:56)", "body": "Amy, this has started up just recently -- http://www.islandmm.com/islandmm/cgi-bin/bbs.pl?action=bbs&mbaction=msgs&item=alice"}, {"response": 27, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "Amy, this has started up just recently -- http://www.islandmm.com/islandmm/cgi-bin/bbs.pl?action=bbs&mbaction=msgs&item=alice"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (18:53)", "body": "That board looks familiar."}, {"response": 29, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (12:24)", "body": "That board looks familiar. Indeed."}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (00:23)", "body": "You'll find the rest of this poem in the poetry conference. This is just a taste. Flowing Like Spring Waters Tonight is the night, my dear friend. The feeling has ripened inside for months... Every time you and I were together Laughing, chatting, and rambling endlessly much more in the poetry conference --------->"}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "There's a new conference called 'unix' and I posted quite a few things in the Internet and Web conferences. You'll find out about the seven new domains that are going to be on the Internet. This will shake things up for sure. Maybe we should get austen.art? Or eeyieeyi.io? Or spring.firm? Things are going to get very interesting. You have to read the whole thing."}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (22:47)", "body": "What are you watching on tv right now? That's a new topic in the tv conference. Have fun with this one."}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (22:57)", "body": "In the sports conference, news of a womens' sports site that has been months in the making. Topic 39 on sports web sites ------------ go there -------------->"}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "Like figure skating on ice? Then you'll like the new figure skating topic in sports which has all the latest schedules of ice skating events on tv. And there is a packers joke there too."}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (19:15)", "body": "Very Highly Recommended dept: Gerard Van der Leun, boswell@well.com, has an excellent cookbook recipe for a successful virtual community in the virtual community conference. http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/public/read/vc/12"}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Feb  9, 1998 (08:29)", "body": "Two new Michigan virtual communities are the subject of new topics in the vc or virtual community conference: grex and m-net."}, {"response": 37, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Feb  9, 1998 (21:04)", "body": "I am trying to get an alternative medicine topic off the ground in the health conference. Even if you don't take vitamins and think acupuncture is a bunch of hooey, check it out and say so."}, {"response": 38, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 13, 1998 (09:55)", "body": "I'd like to point out some topics getting activity in the travel conference: 16 15 dive travel with Divine Spark 17 3 India 18 4 Micronesia and the Pacific region 19 3 Fiji There is a fascinating tale of travel to India and some comments from some islanders themselves in topics 18 and 19. Have you traveled any places that we could start a new topic about?"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Sun, Feb 15, 1998 (11:30)", "body": "How about Germany, where I'm from? (Specifically Swabia)"}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb 15, 1998 (17:56)", "body": "Swabia?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Sun, Feb 15, 1998 (18:30)", "body": "uh huh. that would be the southern country where i'm from. the city is Stuttgart. Hi wer!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb 15, 1998 (21:28)", "body": "Sure start a topic!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 27, 1998 (20:19)", "body": "I put some procative posts in the Internet conference today in a new topic. Something called Cyberwar: The Information Revolution and Warfare. It turns out, for the last half century, the US has been intercepting and decrypting the top secret documents of most of the world's governments. It's topic 22."}, {"response": 45, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Feb 27, 1998 (22:46)", "body": "Cool! What will we Yanks think up next?! :-)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Feb 27, 1998 (22:53)", "body": "Hmm...just occured to me that this topic and \"What's hot on the Spring?\" rather overlap with each other. Perhaps one or the other should be frozen?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Sat, Feb 28, 1998 (11:42)", "body": "dunno, wer, maybe we can talk the higher powers into creating a conference just for babbling-we'd never have to leave!!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb 28, 1998 (13:47)", "body": "Good idea Mike, which one should I freeze. Anyone object?"}, {"response": 51, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb 28, 1998 (14:05)", "body": "In music, topic 44 is Van Morrison - the Man with news of an upcoming Van and Dylan tour. About time to pay some tribute to Van Morrison. Gotta get me that Astral Weeks CD."}, {"response": 52, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb 28, 1998 (14:07)", "body": "Done deal on killing the redundant topics, this is now spring pointer to other topic world headquarters."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Sat, Feb 28, 1998 (19:32)", "body": "wait, what was 16 and 19?? terry, didja catch my hint for a blabbing conference? *grin*"}, {"response": 55, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar  1, 1998 (09:48)", "body": "I got the hint, I'll hold hearings for more comment."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Sun, Mar  1, 1998 (12:48)", "body": "thanks *smile*"}, {"response": 57, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar  2, 1998 (02:23)", "body": "What's hot, hot, hot. News. There's now a whole news conference. Go there and find out stuff you should know (maybe), talk about your Spring anniversary, discuss spam, enter your offsite email address if you care to do so, request favors, talk about springeurs who have hit the big time or made the news, pat yourself on the back, and find out about places to go and things to do."}, {"response": 58, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar  2, 1998 (02:56)", "body": "In the media conference, bet you didn't know we had one, there's a new topic on the Drudge Report. My friend Judith Lewis of the LA Weekly is just down the streeet from Matt Drudge and has been known to pay him a visit every so often. Go to media and get in on this drudgery."}, {"response": 59, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar  2, 1998 (03:14)", "body": "And also something about our homeboys. Guess where?"}, {"response": 60, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar  2, 1998 (04:45)", "body": "Let's rewind to June 22, 1995 and pick up where we left off. Nike was there. So was Gena. GenX is back!!!!!! Here's the scoop: 1 4 genx conference bidness 2 1 genXer intros 3 0 drugs 4 1 sex or . . . 5 1 Embarassing Things I Did in the '80s 6 1 First jobs from hell and beyond ... and a total of 64 topics to come Melissa Marie, I still love you."}, {"response": 61, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar  2, 1998 (04:54)", "body": "The Spring's original topic list from 1995: http://www.spring.com:/~dbii/forum/confs/confs.html"}, {"response": 62, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (07:06)", "body": "Some very good thoughts on the CFP conference in the last topic in our cfp conference: From: Lorrie Faith Cranor [For the past five years I have written a Computers, Freedom and Privacy conference report (see the archive at=20 http://www.research.att.com/~lorrie/pubs/cfp.html) . This year, turned the job over to Danielle Gallo, an undergraduate student who has been working with me. Feel free to forward this report. -- Lorrie Cranor] Danielle Gallo's CFP98 Conference Report Computers, Freedom and Privacy '98 was held February 18-20 at the Austin, Texas Hyatt Regency Hotel. Although there have been eight in total, this is the first CFP I attended. The program featured daily single-track sessions, lunch breakout sessions, and several concurrent tutorials. . . . contines with her extensive observations. A good read! Recommended."}, {"response": 63, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (07:14)", "body": "Letter to me and Mike: Sounds like a good trade to me. I am doing a CGI project for the Exploratorium in San Francisco on a volunteer basis and that is why I need the test space. I don't have years of experience doing this, but there are some prewritten CGI libraries available that allow a developer to write a CGI script that will put up the HTML form and collect the data. At this point I would have to say that I could probably write the part that put up the HTML and collected the data. So, in that regard, let me take a stab at what I think you might mean. Name: Email: What you do in real life: Favorite sites on the web: Other interests, and miscellaneous biographical information: Other or different fields that you have in mind: A couple of areas that I am going to have to do some research on, or get ideas about: If there are variables that I can access for the visitor's email address, or am I going to have to make them enter it by hand. How to link the information I collect to the visitor's alias. Maybe the people at the Well would be willing to part with some secrets in that regard. Anyway, I think it would be fun to be involved in writing the CGI script for this, and if the library I mentioned is loaded, or could be loaded, on the server, I don't think it would be too much work to get to the point of having the form displayed and collecting the information. Let me know what fields and other form elements you think should be in there. I will follow up with some questions for Terry. Regards, Bill"}, {"response": 64, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (10:10)", "body": "Allie McBeal, a new topic in the tv confernce (and also 'babes'). See, there's this tv show called Ally McBeal. And it features three *hot babes*. That little bit of sexual subconscious out of the way, let me say it's a very funny show. It's a great show, I'll go even further. It's about a law firm. And Allie's ex lover just happens to be a member of the firm and he's married to a gal that has a jaw and blonde hair that Allie doesn't have. Billy, the ex lover of Allie, has mixed emotions And Allie has become friends with Billy's wife. We're talking age ranges of 25-28 here, folks. My theory is that this is a guy type show, and that women will find it embarassing. I don't think it will end up on the feminist top ten listing of tv shows, maybe the bottom ten. The women are too cute and too bimboish at times. And the women aren't the aggressive, free wheeling Marcia Clark types, they're quite timid usually. But how can you not like a show whose lead actress is *** Calista Flockhart *** That name just does it for me. I would love to have a girlfriend like her just so I could introduce her to people. Uh, I'd like you to meet my girlfriend, *Calista Flockhart*. Dream, dream. I'll have more to say about Allie McBeal. It's my favorite tv show. I hope others will join me in this quaint little discussion."}, {"response": 65, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (10:15)", "body": "Jordan's up to bat, does that mean Lewinsky's in the on deck circle. Politics, in the topic on the Clinton Presidency. Hey, it's great to see the new conferences, news and genx, off to such a roaring start! I have a lot more surprises in store in both conferences in the way of stome startling new topics. Stay tuned."}, {"response": 66, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (10:18)", "body": "There's an *awesome* array of new material in the cfp conference. Warning, this is heady stuff, the legal and moral consequences of today's cyberspace mileau and the implications for our future freedom, privacy and lives are freely discussed. It's a stretch to get past the gate, but the effort may be worth your time. Danielle's observations are far reaching and comprehensive in her roundup of the confernce. Danielle Gallo, on CFP98. j cfp."}, {"response": 67, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (10:29)", "body": "The most underutilized, ready for prime time conference on the Spring that has potential for future stardom: cultures Hear me now, or hear me later. Pump it up!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (21:47)", "body": "Dad!!!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Mar  5, 1998 (02:49)", "body": "Is there something you want to share with us, Terry??"}, {"response": 71, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar  5, 1998 (04:15)", "body": "You mean I haven't been forthcoming, autumn?"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Sat, Mar  7, 1998 (17:36)", "body": "ok, terry (aka wer's dad)..... Hi Autumn!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Mar  7, 1998 (23:17)", "body": "Heya, Wolfie, havin' a good weekend? :-) Mine has been soooo relaxing...."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Sun, Mar  8, 1998 (16:47)", "body": "not really, kinda stressin', been working on my site and trying to figure out what the deal is with this browser....... got the baby girl's ears pierced yesterday, she did soooo good. the part she can't handle is the cleaning and turning the posts, but today it is going much better and she's doing it for herself. am very proud of her. the whole thing was her decision, told her she didn't have to if she didn't want to, but she was gung ho!"}, {"response": 75, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar  9, 1998 (13:16)", "body": "Good coverage by Gary Chapman of the Bruce Sterling speech in the cfp conference. j cfp"}, {"response": 76, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Mar 10, 1998 (11:58)", "body": "My older daughter came to me yesterday asking for pierced ears for her birthday (she'll be 6). Her dad said age 15, I said 10, so it'll probably be next year! How old is your little girl?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Tue, Mar 10, 1998 (20:46)", "body": "4, she'll be 5 next month (didn't we have that conversation before?) didn't get mine done til i was 16 cuz the big d said heck no. we let her think about it for a while and i carefully explained the whole thing, my big thing was letting her make up her own mind, you know?"}, {"response": 78, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Mar 11, 1998 (15:44)", "body": "yeah, but mine also wants to be bald (she literally cries about wanting to have her head shaved), black (which I can do nothing about) and handicapped (which I'm tempted to do something about--just kidding!) So giving her too much control is definitely o ut of the question. Oh, she also wants me to get a job so she can go to day care (just tear out my heart, I tell her!)"}, {"response": 79, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar 11, 1998 (15:47)", "body": "Babe of the week in babes. I know, we pale next to drool."}, {"response": 80, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Wed, Mar 11, 1998 (19:40)", "body": "what is this an invite? Autumn, my daughter hasn't gone that far yet! she wants me to tell my boss i'm not coming back so i can be with her! (she's mama's for sure)"}, {"response": 81, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 12, 1998 (18:49)", "body": "New topics in the news conference: Asteroid! WASHINGTON (AP) -- It's not time to panic, but Earthlings need to keep an eye on a mile-wide asteroid that will zip very close to the Earth in 30 years and could even smash into the planet, causing widespread destruction, astronomers say. Is it time to book that flight to Mars or is this a bunch of hype? Discuss among yourselves in the news conference topic called Asteroid!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 12, 1998 (18:54)", "body": "That will be the year 2028 in case you need to mark your calendars. It will be 1:30 on a Thursday morning. October 26, 2028. Thursday. 1:30 am. Got that? Did you have anything planned for that day?"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Thu, Mar 12, 1998 (23:22)", "body": "wait.....do dayrunners plan that far in advance? (anyway, it's gonna be a near miss by about 600,000 miles)"}, {"response": 84, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Mar 13, 1998 (00:04)", "body": "I was very concerned about this when I saw it on the news. As a student of geophysics, and the science of major collisions, if this thing hits it's going to be The Big One. For the religious ones amongst you (including me), it's time to get your on your knees =)"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Fri, Mar 13, 1998 (00:07)", "body": "hey, it's going to MISS US......"}, {"response": 86, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 13, 1998 (13:26)", "body": "Maybe. It will be four months till they have accurate calculations. But even if was aimed dead center at Manhattan, they'd turn it into a media circus and attach rockets to it and turn it into a theme park and steer it into a different orbit. And the commercials would dwarf what it costs to put an ad on the superbowl."}, {"response": 87, "author": "drool", "date": "Fri, Mar 13, 1998 (18:46)", "body": "I wondering Terry what did you mean you pale next to drool? I'm chewing my nails waiting for the day my son will be born. So please you guys don't scare me so that I start chewing my fingers... O.K. thanks, drool"}, {"response": 88, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 13, 1998 (18:56)", "body": "I meant drool the conference!!! ha!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 14, 1998 (04:08)", "body": "A certain Gerard van der Leun, boswell, shows up doubting the Spring will make it, and giving it poor grades. He posts in the Spring's most infrequently utilized Internet conference."}, {"response": 90, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 14, 1998 (18:21)", "body": "A photography topic is now in the art conference. I talk about some findings I got re: 3d photography."}, {"response": 91, "author": "drool", "date": "Sat, Mar 14, 1998 (20:32)", "body": "terry, theres a confrencecalled drool? really? How do I get there from here? I am sorry if I offended you or anything. drool, the person"}, {"response": 92, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar 15, 1998 (08:30)", "body": "There's a link to it from our main http://www.spring.net page. Wow, just getting used to that dot net!"}, {"response": 93, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar 15, 1998 (10:09)", "body": "I will be giving a live talk via realaudio at http://www.spring.net today and call ins will be accepted (512.303.4000), it will be a live internet \"talk show\"."}, {"response": 94, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar 15, 1998 (13:19)", "body": "Rush Limbaugh has come out in favor of legalization of marijuana. Full details in the Rush Room topic in the radio conference. This is not a joke, he did come out in favor of legalization. It happened March 12 10:40 am pst. Three times!"}, {"response": 95, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Mar 15, 1998 (15:51)", "body": "wasn't limbaugh one of the bastards that so unmercifully tormented clinton's first surgeon-general (forget her name) for basically saying that we should consider decriminalization of some drugs?"}, {"response": 96, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Mar 15, 1998 (16:18)", "body": "I'll guess Jocelyn Elders, if we're talking about the \"pro-decriminalization/pro-masturbation\" surgeon general."}, {"response": 97, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Mar 15, 1998 (16:32)", "body": "what elders (thank you) said was that it (decriminalization) was an issue that merited discussion... she's in good company with that view... re: masturbation, don't think it really means a tinker's damn what her opinion is, one way or the other... (and regardless of one's view, really must ask one's self where republicans would be, without it?...(especially rush)... they're certainly repressed enough, as it is)..."}, {"response": 98, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Mar 15, 1998 (16:35)", "body": "(hi autumn)"}, {"response": 99, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Mar 15, 1998 (16:37)", "body": "Just mentioned that, because she'll forever be remembered for her ideas on masturbation rather than decriminalization..."}, {"response": 100, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar 15, 1998 (19:35)", "body": "We'll be going live with our talk show again in an hour."}, {"response": 101, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar 16, 1998 (08:48)", "body": "Right here on the Spring we had an event that shocked even the hoary old WELL. Sunday, we all went live and really \"met\" one another for the first time, I only wish I had pumped it up more on the spring. Next Sunday we'll do it again. It was a gas, gas, gas. See Mikes topic 26 in this conference. What should we call this? Sunday Night Live on the Spring?"}, {"response": 102, "author": "drool", "date": "Wed, Mar 18, 1998 (19:08)", "body": "About the canabis thing out of the 265 chemicals in tobbaco I think 80 of them cause cancer. out of the 18 chemicals in pot none are known too cause cancer... also a hemp plant produces forty percent more wood products than the trees being cut down now. I wouldn't mind being able to smoke my coffee table occasionally. hahahah DROOL,"}, {"response": 103, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (10:41)", "body": "*smile*"}, {"response": 104, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (10:59)", "body": "Yeah, cannabis is great apart from the mind-threatening hallucinations and permanent psychological disturbances (e.g. Schizophrenia)"}, {"response": 105, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (12:45)", "body": "Wow, that explains a lot...."}, {"response": 106, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (18:21)", "body": "aha!"}, {"response": 107, "author": "drool", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (19:49)", "body": "Where in the world did you hear that pot causes schizt. I know that it can stunt your emotional growth if you start at a young age. I think you've been watching to many of those old anti-pot movies. Did you know thatthe gov. did a test were they gave a mentally disturb man some L.S.D and twelve hours later {when he came down} he was no longer clasified as mentally disturbed. If you ever get to the library of congress you should look up these facts. Knowlege Is Power. {or at least understanding..} I do not condone the use of L.S.D. {at least not the street stuff, never know whats in that crap} Remember the gov. has all of the best drugs. And clinton did inhale... And probly still does. Drool"}, {"response": 108, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (20:13)", "body": "read it in a newspaper article, quoting some recent research at a UK university. I'll look it up again and post it for you"}, {"response": 109, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (20:23)", "body": "this is an extract, since the article is about 500 words -- BEGIN QUOTE \"We do not yet know enough about its causes to say how schizophrenia can be prevented, but one specific factor is important: drug use.\" SANE continues by pointing out that cannabis can cause ahllucinations and paranoid delusions similar to those found in schizophrenia. The psychotic effects induced by these drugs do not always clear up readily, and there is some evidence that they may tr igger a prolonged schizophrenic illness. In addition, such drugs can cause a relapse in an established illness. Most doctors have harrowing stories of psychotic breakdown after a young person has been exposed to cannabis. Detailed research is scant, although a study of the role of cannabis in precipitating schizophrenia in Swedish men who had undertaken national s ervice seemed tod demonstrate a clear link. It is usually considered unlikely that smoking cannabis could be a primary cause of schizophrenia, but likely that it could be a factor in the condition's development in those who are unfortunate enough to have a genetic susceptibility. ... Apart from its intoxicating effects and any persistent damage to the psyche, cannabis may also cause acute anxiety or a panic reaction, particularly if the plant has been bred to give a high yield of cannabinoids, a type of cannabis referred to as \"skunk\" . Panic attacks may be treated with benzodiazepines, acute psychotic reactions with neuroleptic drugs. Smoking cannabis mixed with tobacco combines the delterious effects of both plants on the air passages. The ill effects of cannabis are not confied to the brain and lungs. it also causes impotence in men, reduces the sperm count and alters the reproductive hormonal systems. babies born to cannabis-smoking mothers are smaller than average, and feed and set tle less well. -- END QUOTE Dr Thomas Stuttaford, The Times (Tuesday, 17 March, 1998)"}, {"response": 110, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (21:39)", "body": "Helen Huth died crossing the bridge over the river in Cape Girardeau Missouri. She was a college student. I loved her and I loved her poems. I got a batch of her poetry in the mail today from Merle Busch, who is trying to dig up some more of her work, about 150 poems, which we are praying are not lost forever. What a loss for the world, that she died so young and didn't get to keep writing these poems and that we only have a few scraps from her prolific output. Reading these today, tears came to my eyes, and I had to go for a long walk in the woods."}, {"response": 111, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (21:43)", "body": "A few of the ones I got are posted in the poetry conference. In a topic called Helen Huths poems."}, {"response": 112, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (22:35)", "body": "forgive me Paul, I do not know of the woman you speak... but I will wander over to 'poetry' and see what I can discover."}, {"response": 113, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (23:44)", "body": "I think you will discover some magic."}, {"response": 114, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 20, 1998 (09:08)", "body": "Today at 1:55 is the start of Spring! We should have an online cyberparty! It's also this Spring's anniversary."}, {"response": 116, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Mar 20, 1998 (10:42)", "body": "WooWoo!"}, {"response": 117, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 20, 1998 (12:18)", "body": "Our fourth anniversary, since we officially went live on the web on the exact beginning of Spring four years ago. And this is the tenth anniversary of the Spring as an organization which started on this date in 1988. We'll be live on the web at 1:55 pm today CST if anyone wants to call in or post something (I'll read it aloud via our realaudio server)."}, {"response": 118, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Mar 20, 1998 (14:48)", "body": "boing, boing--happy spring!"}, {"response": 119, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar 23, 1998 (06:47)", "body": "A new topic, number 260 has been started to discuss the potential for bring the show \"My Solitary Elegance\" to Austin. from Karen Hannum (sunflower@well.com): A friend of mine from England is bringing her show on Jane Austen, \"My Solitary Elegance\", to the US for a very limited run. It has enjoyed a great deal of success in England and Scotland including being featured on BBC2. It will be performed in San Franciso from October 2nd-5th at the Jane Austen Society of North America AGM. She has some open dates from the 6th through the 8th and would be interested in filling these bookings. Perhaps at a college or some other venue. If anyone is interested - please contact me at and I can put you in touch with her. Thank you..."}, {"response": 120, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar 23, 1998 (06:57)", "body": "Oh, I didn't mention that this topic is in the austen conference. I plan on attending the international Jane Austen conference in SF and promote the Spring's austen conference. Also, I've registered the name austen.com"}, {"response": 121, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar 23, 1998 (08:37)", "body": "Good Will Hunting. Titantic. New topics in the movies conference. Have you seen these? Comment in movies!"}, {"response": 122, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar 23, 1998 (22:11)", "body": "If you drop in tonight or later on, come by and comment on this years Oscars in topic 29. Hot. Now."}, {"response": 123, "author": "drool", "date": "Tue, Mar 24, 1998 (18:04)", "body": "mikeg, Well without getting long winded you did say the sickness was potentialy pre-exsisting sickness,. If pot was not illegal people would not get peranoid and annxious. as for impotence, I have aa very high sperm count and am expecting a strong and healthy baby boy to arrive any day. as for sexual drive well three times a day doesn't sound like a {decreased sex drive} as you so said. If you take a trip to Amterdam, you would see that somking hemp,pot,skunk,red hair sinns.,ganja, the bomb, bolo rolo,canabis,canaboid,the huch-cauw,a blunt, or canabis sativa, mota, purple, blue, green, or gold haired marajajuana, is not so detrimental to a persons health as you might be lead to beleive by the Ronald Regan, Nancy Drew (just say noer's} people. theend drool..."}, {"response": 124, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Mar 25, 1998 (23:39)", "body": "Funny, I always pictured Nancy Drew for a \"Mary Jane\" girl...."}, {"response": 126, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Mar 26, 1998 (17:22)", "body": "purty graphics! The visuals almost make up for the ridiculously slow pace through a browser."}, {"response": 128, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Mar 27, 1998 (04:30)", "body": "at home. and now I'm at home again, up at a ridiculously early hour, suffering from a bad case of insomnia. *sigh*"}, {"response": 129, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 27, 1998 (08:47)", "body": "Did you drink too much caffeine. I'm in California up at a ridiculously early hour cause I'm still on Austintime. I'm out here because my mom's condition is pretty serious. Lung cancer from years of smoking. She's having an opertion and some chemo treatmetns this week."}, {"response": 130, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Mar 27, 1998 (10:34)", "body": "good luck, Paul. To you and your mom. Sounds like nasty stuff, I'll be thinking good thoughts. No, not too much caffeine. Rain. It rains so rarely in Colorado through the winter that when it starts up in Spring it's always too loud for me to sleep. Snow is very quiet coming down *smile* I wasn't up for too long. The whirr of the computer soon lulled me back to sleep."}, {"response": 131, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Mar 27, 1998 (14:09)", "body": "I love the sound of rain when I don't have to get up and go out in it. Lying in my bed at about 5am, the weather lashing against the glass, is one of my favourite times. And, moving back on topic, the new community I'm involved in developing, Farrawae, seems to have accelerated from an absolute stop to a snail's pace, which means things are happening! You can check out the website (I encourage you to do so - get a feel for what we're doing!), and then drop into the Farrawae conference to catch up on what's been going on!"}, {"response": 133, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Mar 27, 1998 (17:40)", "body": "My big news : SPRING BREAK!!! starts now! all the kiddos are on busses and I'm hankering for a magarita!"}, {"response": 134, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 28, 1998 (21:44)", "body": "I'm in Walnut Creek with my son watchin' the Final Four and taking care of mom. Party on Stace. Where ya goin for break?"}, {"response": 135, "author": "orange", "date": "Sun, Mar 29, 1998 (13:47)", "body": "terry, very sorry about the family illness, i understand now why you have been scarce. hope everything goes well"}, {"response": 136, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar 29, 1998 (14:27)", "body": "Thanks orange. Mom is doing well. And I'm tripping around with my kid in SF and Santa Rosa and trying to hook up with some old friends like fig@well.com"}, {"response": 137, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar 30, 1998 (11:49)", "body": "And we're back. We're having problems with the domain change. Please email terry@spring.net if you notice that our system is down. And I'll get it back up and running Sorry for the downtime folks!"}, {"response": 138, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar 30, 1998 (11:50)", "body": "Or call 512.303.4000. Either way. Please let me know if you can't get in! Terry"}, {"response": 139, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Mar 30, 1998 (13:37)", "body": "Spring Break plans have changed a few times... first it was going to be Washington DC for a long weekend of museums, Ethiopian food, skating along the Potomac, etc. But since this is Cherry Blossom time, tickets were cost prohibitive. Then it was going to be four days of primitive camping in Fruita Wednesday - Sunday. Then it was going to be three days of primitve camping in Arches Nat. Park and Moab Sat - Tues. (Brandon's business travel keeps f***ing everything up!) BUt NOW it will be Stacey tagging along to Savannah GA w/ B on a consulting job and B taking an extra few days to play around in the garden of good and evil! I'm excited. And Saturday we biked thru Denver in search of \"Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil.\" BTW excellent book!"}, {"response": 140, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Mar 30, 1998 (20:56)", "body": "Terry, I too am sorry to hear about your mother's health problems. I'm sure it means a lot to her to have you there. Thanks again for helping me out last night. Enjoy the time you're having with your mom and son."}, {"response": 141, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Mar 31, 1998 (11:20)", "body": "I'm in SF, and having a good time, the system seems to be having a few glitches every now and then but I emailed our system admin, jeff@www.spring.net about them. I just fixed the date. I notice we're having our year 2000 problem again. Yesterday we went and visited Brian Zisk (San Franziskgo website) in SF, and then met in a little bistro in Mill Valley with Cliff Figallo, who just got a conference hosting job with Salon. And then out to dinner at a great Thai place in Santa Rosa. Mom is doing well. And Shey is still beating the pants off me on the basketball court, it's hard to compete against 6'5\" of muscle. I hope I can keep this system together with band aids till I get back, sorry for any downtime! The domain name change from spring.com to spring.net will fully take place in the next few days, so please remember our new address is http://www.spring.net"}, {"response": 142, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Mar 31, 1998 (11:21)", "body": "Or alternatively, it's always: http://206.97.234.70 In case our name server has fits."}, {"response": 144, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Mar 31, 1998 (17:01)", "body": "In the vc.6 topic (Virtual Communities) are details of Vassilios Koronakis (vassilio@well.com) affair with Stacy Horn. Some pretty juicy insider stuff about the doyenne of ECHO by one of its most controversial members. Sizzzling tale... j vc and read topic 6"}, {"response": 145, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Apr 12, 1998 (23:51)", "body": "Myretta emailed me a while ago and said we were down. So I just rebooted the server. Sorry folks, I been out doin' nonvirtual stuff today. In the event you notice you can't get in, please email jeff@spring.net and terry@spring.net And one of us will get things moving again. Wish I had heard about this sooner! I started a coupla new topics in genx. Check 'em out!"}, {"response": 147, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Apr 14, 1998 (00:21)", "body": "What me grep?"}, {"response": 149, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Tue, Apr 14, 1998 (21:25)", "body": "terry sorry about helen and your mom, hope she's doing well. live talks? oh my, not sure if i'm ready for that, everyone thinks i'm a kid when i answer the phone or answer the door-uh, is your mom there? *giggle* please post whenever you plan to have another one *smile*"}, {"response": 150, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 22, 1998 (23:44)", "body": "Wanted. Person to drive my Buick Regal (30,000 miles on it) from the SF Bay area to Austin, Texas. I'll pay $200 and put you up for a week in Austin free and wine and dine you. Serious about this. I need to get this car out here."}, {"response": 151, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr 23, 1998 (00:55)", "body": "So tempted... so tempted..."}, {"response": 153, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 23, 1998 (05:46)", "body": "I have several semi-serious inquiries so far but nothing solid. The car is in Walnut Creek, CA at my moms place. If you could do this Stacey, that would be great!"}, {"response": 154, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Apr 23, 1998 (18:38)", "body": "would you fly me out to SF, too? :-)"}, {"response": 155, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 23, 1998 (18:44)", "body": "Nice try."}, {"response": 156, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Apr 23, 1998 (22:36)", "body": "Hey Terry, why don't you get that author whose doing book signings in SF and Austin to do it? :-)"}, {"response": 157, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Apr 24, 1998 (06:15)", "body": "Autumn! What a knack for putting things together!"}, {"response": 158, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Apr 28, 1998 (23:49)", "body": "Here's a pointer to talk about the NBC miniseries that showed the other night: Merlin Find a discussion in topic 17 in 'babes' and in the tv conference."}, {"response": 160, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 29, 1998 (08:09)", "body": "Just regroup William and take another run at it, because you seem to have some insight and perception in this area of Arthurian legend (surpassing that of your knowledge of babe-onomics)."}, {"response": 161, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr 30, 1998 (16:39)", "body": "really?????"}, {"response": 163, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 30, 1998 (23:46)", "body": "Gary Chapman asked me a question and a favor. You have probably heard about the shooting of Texas Monthly writer Jan Reid down in Mexico City last week. Jan is in the hospital in Houston now, recovering. (Jan is a friend of Garys.) A bunch of people in Austin are putting together a fundraiser for him at the Driskill Hotel on May 9th. Jan can't be there, obviously, because he'll still be in the Rehab Hospital in Houston. Gary was wondering is if I knew how we might get a live video feed over the net to Jan from the Driskill. They're going to check to see if there's a fast net connection in the hospital itself, but Gary'd like to investigate how he'd handle his end at the gig. So I'm volunteering and looking for someone to assist me, someone with a good on camera presence to interview folks."}, {"response": 164, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, May  1, 1998 (17:21)", "body": "yes WER. Surprised (and ticklish!)"}, {"response": 166, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, May  2, 1998 (09:42)", "body": "In topic 8 in the art conference, Lenadams Dorris vegas@well.com Enigma is the focus of discussion, visit her website and comment. Lenadams: Hello, everyone...I've been pretty absent lately, mostly because my cafe, the Enigma, has been so terribly busy. We're up to 14 employees now! We were honored to again win in the 1998 Best of Las Vegas Awards, this time for \"Best Art Scene.\" Many of you have stopped by to visit when in Las Vegas, which is wonderful. You may be interested to know that we are about to celebrate our fifth anniversary, with ten days of art, music and spoken word events. I redesigned our web site to bring it all up to date, and included an ongoing scrapbook of pictures of the Enigma and its people and things, if you want to get a better idea of what we look like. Some of you will remember that on our third birthday in 1996, a lot of WELLbeings sent postcards to help us celebrate our grand re-opening after renovations. While many of those cards are still around, many have been lost to time and careless coffee drinkers. If any of you are into it, we'd love to get a bunch of new cards from all over the world (in the scrapbook you can see some of the cards pasted to the front of the coffee counter...) People love seeing all the cards, and we love hearing from our far-flung friends. If you want to send postcards, our address is: Enigma Garden Cafe (or just \"Enigma\") 918 South Fourth Street Las Vegas, NV 89101 Thanks everyone...even when I am not online so much, you are my extended family who has helped keep me going all these years. Smooch!"}, {"response": 167, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, May  2, 1998 (09:59)", "body": "In the media conference, linked to the news conference: Item 30 entered Sat, May 2, 1998 (08:58) by Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Live from LA, it's suicide on the freeway! They just has a live broadcast of a freeway suicide in LA, with closeup shots of someones head being blow off as they popped off a shotgun. We are at the point where everyone must know everything that's going on as it happens. Both a new low in journalism and a taste of the future."}, {"response": 168, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, May  3, 1998 (11:58)", "body": "euwwww"}, {"response": 169, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, May  9, 1998 (09:03)", "body": "Riette is on a roll in philosophy. She's got the scoop on truth, wisdom and even started up a new topic. Glad to see Riette jumping in to this little known backwater of the Spring."}, {"response": 170, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, May 10, 1998 (06:00)", "body": "Riette has taken philoslophy by storm. I think she's a night person!"}, {"response": 171, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, May 10, 1998 (14:56)", "body": "New topic in travel: England."}, {"response": 172, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, May 11, 1998 (19:54)", "body": "wooo hoooo.....i'm pilin' in there!"}, {"response": 173, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 13, 1998 (08:23)", "body": "Windows Conference: Texas vs. Microsoft (AG wants to raise campaign funds and keep job. Bolt from sky tells him he is barking up wrong tree.) Texas Puts Off Action Against Microsoft (05/12/98; 8:58 p.m. ET) By Kora McNaughton, TechWeb Pressure from Texas-based licensees of Microsoft Windows has given pause to that state's attorney general, Dan Morales, who was expected to file an antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft later this week. In a statement issued Tuesday, Morales said, \"Before contemplating any legal action against Microsoft, I feel it is prudent and wise to personally hear the concerns of our Texas-based companies.\" Morales will meet with the Companies over the next few weeks. Morales said his office has received letters from several Texas computer executives worried that a lawsuit against Microsoft would \"negatively impact\" their companies and the state as a whole. Morales' postponement of any action is an additional boost for Microsoft, which won an important victory against the Justice Department Tuesday when a federal appeals court ruled that Internet Explorer may be bundled with Windows 98. Expectations have been building that several state attorneys general and the Justice Department were readying broad antitrust complaints against Microsoft, but Morales' statement indicates such lawsuits may not happen for weeks, if at all."}, {"response": 174, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 13, 1998 (09:46)", "body": "The tv conference: 5 19 Seinfeld Tomorrow night, Thursday, is the Last Seinfeld. Some folks are watching jsut for the commercials. The show about nothing is no longer. Just re-runs for here on out. The cast is going to be on the Tonight Show."}, {"response": 175, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 14, 1998 (22:10)", "body": "Daniel Cardenas wrote: The Justice Conference will focus on topics of criminal justice. Sample top ics could be Death Penalty v. Life, rehabilitation v. punishment, juvenile justice, women in prison, ethnic makeup of jails and prisons. Also could talk about serial killers, famous prisoners now in prison, current prison cases, laws, crime, statistics, studies, etc.. It could go into Native American law, white collar crime v. blue collar, constitutional law. My plan for getting conversation going, is to talk to friends of mine to signing up, also, since I am new, I havent participated in any conversat ions yet. Through those conversations, I could steer people to the Justice conference. So, now there is a 'justice' conference. j justice"}, {"response": 176, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, May 16, 1998 (12:57)", "body": "Austin's still \"smokin'\". Literally. A surreal pall hangs over us as smoke blows in from Mexican fires out of control. Check out topic 28 in the austin conference or topic 7 in the environment conference (they're crosslinked). air Austin The Mexican government procrastinates and the US Governement does a \"study\" while Austinites choke."}, {"response": 177, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, May 17, 1998 (11:21)", "body": "I hope Riette sticks around, I look forward every day to reading her cool insights in the philosophy conference. New in the spirit conference, a topic on the Sufi Order and Sufi dancing."}, {"response": 178, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, May 20, 1998 (01:06)", "body": "you mean like the Kavadi(sp?)?"}, {"response": 179, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 20, 1998 (08:57)", "body": "Guess who's back? Howard Fredrics! Great!"}, {"response": 180, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, May 22, 1998 (03:13)", "body": "Jim Moss aka Leplep Le Plep is doing his fair share in Philosophy, also, things are getting quite interesting in there... and, this in from Wolf (and edited, a little, of course...): Hi Wer!! Dude, thanks for writing me. It's good to hear from familiar folks. You can write here all the time, I do have regular access to it. As for the Spring, I do that when I'm not working and won't be on it as often as before for the time being. It's very very hot here, but it's not too bad. Drink lots of water and stay cool. Got up to 120 the other day, whew! But it's a dry heat *laugh*. Talk later, Elke :) mswolf68@hotmail.com"}, {"response": 181, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, May 22, 1998 (03:15)", "body": "oh, yeah, and I updated the GenX Storybook annex page at http://www.spring.net/~spew/chap1.html"}, {"response": 182, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, May 24, 1998 (11:05)", "body": "I've just opened a new topic in Spirit, which I would like to link to Philosophy - \"Why Christianity is not Religious\""}, {"response": 183, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, May 25, 1998 (16:54)", "body": "But, Christianity is WAY to religious..."}, {"response": 184, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, May 25, 1998 (19:09)", "body": "sorry, I seemed to have lost an o while camping... how are we gonna go about this semantic wrestling match, Mike? see you there..."}, {"response": 185, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, May 25, 1998 (19:09)", "body": "Terry has moved into his new casa, and won't be back on here full time until his ISDN line gets installed somewhere around the 4th or 5th of June...(I think, however, he is sneaking around here tonight)"}, {"response": 186, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 28, 1998 (21:30)", "body": "Yup, dialin' in. My isdn line goes in on the 4th. I'll be havin' another pool party soon. I'm sittin' here with my notebook by poolside, with the tv cranked up on the music awards. Swimmin' rockin' out and lurkin' the Spring a bit."}, {"response": 187, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 28, 1998 (21:39)", "body": "News conference. Obits. Phil Hartman of SNL fame. Shot dead, possibly by his wife who killed herself."}, {"response": 188, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Tue, Jun  2, 1998 (06:06)", "body": "I'm sorry I haven't been around much. It's Early Finals time here at Sussex again, which means that I'm studying like crazy (just as I should be now...) I will be around occassionally, but not much. However, after June 25 I will be back, with the trauma of 14 examinations over!!!"}, {"response": 189, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jun  2, 1998 (07:23)", "body": "So, that's where you've been all this time - I was beginning to worry; thought you got run over by a car or something. I didn't know you were English; I just love England and Scotland - I go there at least once or twice a year. It is just so beautiful with the rolling landscapes, quaint little towns, and the people are incredibly nice. I even married one of them! Anyway, I hope your exams will be going well, and hope you'll be back more often after that."}, {"response": 190, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Jun  2, 1998 (10:14)", "body": "Good luck on your finals, Mike!"}, {"response": 191, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jun  2, 1998 (15:01)", "body": "14 examinations?!?! how many classes are you taking?"}, {"response": 192, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jun  6, 1998 (12:37)", "body": "excuse me, I'm butting in for a second, the GenX Storybook pages can now be found at http://www.spring.net/~spew/genxstory/chap1.html http://www.spring.net/~spew/genxstory/chap2.html come by and read 'em, puh-leeeze! now, back to our regularly scheduled conversation..."}, {"response": 193, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jun 18, 1998 (15:23)", "body": "The index page is up for the GenX Storybook...it's at http://www.spring.net/~spew/genxstory/indeX.html it's kinda graphic intesive, let me know what ya'll think..."}, {"response": 194, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun 26, 1998 (15:42)", "body": "Thoroughly Modern Jane This conference is for fiction using Jane Austen characters in non-Regency settings. Fiction based on Jane Austen and set in her period is at The Republic of Pemberley Your host is Carolyn http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/public/browse/modjane/all This has been in the works for a while, and the time was ripe to announce it. Credit is due to Amy and Myretta, the wonder workers from the Republic of Pemberly, a board that was incubated right here on the Spring."}, {"response": 195, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun 26, 1998 (15:46)", "body": "The announcement is at: http://www.pemberley.com/pemb/admin/fiction/webbbs/boi.html and there is a little discussion on the help board at: http://www.pemberley.com/pemb/admin/help/index.html"}, {"response": 196, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jun 26, 1998 (15:57)", "body": "and if anyone has noticed, there has been more modjane-ing than firthing lately, so there's already plenty o' stuff to read..."}, {"response": 197, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 24, 2004 (18:06)", "body": "The austen.com domain name expired. And I renewed it with the help of a couple of donations. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 133, "subject": "Favorite Web Sites", "response_count": 42, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (16:04)", "body": "NPR's Cartalk www.cartalk.com Doonesbury Townhall www.doonesbury.com Metropolitan Museum of Art www.metmuseum.org Roger Ebert Movie Reviews www.suntimes.com/ebert David Letterman Top Ten Lists www.cbs.com/lateshow/idx96.html American Guild of English Handbell Ringers www.agehr.org"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (18:33)", "body": "Can we link this to the web conference so this topic runs there too?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (00:47)", "body": "A few quick faves: C.S. Lewis home page: http://www.cache.net/~john/cslewis/index.html Torvill & Dean home page: http://users.aol.com/tanddfanp/index.htm Monterey Bay Aquarium home page: http://www.mbayaq.org/ Thornburg Center home page: http://www.tcpd.org/ KPIX PIX Page: http://www.kpix.com/"}, {"response": 4, "author": "geekman", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (05:50)", "body": "How about all these Jane Austen pages? Firstly Ostentatious Jane's Page Then ... A&E Behind the Scenes - Emma Spring Conference Center - aust e n conference Discover Hampshire - Jane Austen Matsuoka's Jane Austen James Dawe's JA Page Henry's Ultimate Jane Austen Info Page. Now Playing-Emma P&P2 BB - it's back!!! Congrats Amy. A fan's Pride & Prejudice Photo Album Alicia's Temporary Bulletin Board The British Gentlemen's Club Ladies are Welcome. Welcome to Britain And finally ... A&E Behind the Scenes a look at the P&P2 series."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (07:44)", "body": "Ann and Cheryl if you inlcude http:// in front of your urls folks can then click on them. They'll come \"alive\""}, {"response": 6, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (08:41)", "body": "Joan, too, I didn't realise you were a Torvil and Dean fan."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (12:39)", "body": "http://www.links.net is Justin's website."}, {"response": 8, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (20:13)", "body": "] Bernie: I didn't realise you were a Torvil and Dean fan. Indeed, the one consolation that I had the evening of the first P&P2BB crash was that Torvill & Dean were participating in a competition for professionals, so I was able to solace myself with yet another addiction. ;-)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (20:23)", "body": "A few of my \"bookmarks\" are: Nebraska Cornhuskers site at http://www.huskers.com James Berardinelli's movie reviews at http://www.cybernex.net/~berardin/ English Adventures tour co (Lake District walking tours) at http://www.walks-uk.demon.co.uk Alan Rickman page at http://www.fred.net/karina/rickman/ Jeremy Northam page (maintained by the kind hostess of our chat room) at http://www.worldrch.com/northam/news.html"}, {"response": 10, "author": "saskia", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (11:09)", "body": "The Center for the Easily Amused at http://www.amused.com"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (13:38)", "body": "Oh Saskia, I like the CEA also. One of my favorite links there is \"The Evil Little Brother Excuse Generator.\" It's a hoot!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (14:02)", "body": "Take a look at my company's site - it's kind of cool if you're into management. http://www.hbsp.harvard.edu"}, {"response": 13, "author": "maud", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (16:23)", "body": "The 12/10 edition of the Wall Street Journal included a supplement on the internet and some sites to try. Despite its unfortunte name www.girlsonfilm.com has real potential. Wonder if they're tuned in to JA? Sorry, can't make a link here as I am not a true proficient."}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (19:40)", "body": "You mean a link to http:// www.girlsonfilm.com ?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "maud", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:32)", "body": "Yes"}, {"response": 16, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (17:37)", "body": "Some favs : If curious about things happening in Quebec : http://www.toile.qc.ca/index.html Litterature : A francophone cultural and lit. site : http://www.swarthmore.edu/Humanities/clicnet Virtual Librairy of Alexandrie : http://www.alexandrie.com/index.html Universals association of bibliophiles : http://web.cnam.fr/ABU For children : Positive Parenting On-line : http://www.positiveparenting.com/ Child Safety on the Information Highway : http://www.4j.edu/InternetResources/Safety/Safety.html"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (19:55)", "body": "Websites of folks that I would like to see spend more time on the Spring: http://econ161.berkeley.edu/ http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/mrgiffor/ http://kfs.org/~james http://nimbus.temple.edu/~dloebell/homepage.html http://pathfinder.com/@@M6ioTAYAJkhf7tWm/time/bios/philipelmer-dewitt.html http://people.delphi.com/jack419/roger.html http://student.uq.edu.au/~s271502 http://student.uq.edu.au/~s315495 http://wonka.acns.nwu.edu/germuska/personal.html http://www.abbedon.com http://www.birdrock.com/platopeople http://www.cais.com/robp/ http://www.cheesesofnazareth.com http://www.coast.net/~emv http://www.concentric.net/~mfitz http://www.crossover.com/costik/ http://www.cruznet.net/~stclare/index.html http://www.ctheory.com/ http://www.cyberhighway.net/~lsievert/ http://www.cyborganic.com/people/rebecca http://www.emf.net/~cynical/ http://www.escape.ca/~krattai http://www.eskimo.com/~comic http://www.estacao.ignet.com.br/ http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7429 http://www.grathis.com/teague http://www.hotwired.com/staff/bslesins/ http://www.icenine.com/changes/ http://www.ilsinc.com/bios/gonzalez.htm http://www.io.com/~jjd http://www.iquest.net/~dgrey http://www.iwaynet.net/~billw/ http://www.izzy.net/~janc http://www.julian.org http://www.lne.com/lemay/ http://www.lyellowpages.com http://www.memoria.com/alb/ http://www.minds.com/cgi-bin/maslink.cgi/command?stat+bodies+jenb http://www.olywa.net/meep http://www.panix.com/~pnh http://www.prairienet.org/~cicely/ http://www.primenet.com/~grifter/home.html http://www.rain.org/~phoutz http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt http://www.realtime.net/~kate http://www.staceys.com/cgi/COMPindex.cgi http://www.stale.com/cmp/contents.html http://www.tmn.com/jgates http://www.verge.com http://www.well.com/~hlr http://www.well.com/~jonl http://www.well.com/user/derb/ http://www.well.com/user/gtk/ http://www.well.com/user/ivanski http://www.well.com/user/jilld http://www.well.com/user/markmcc/ http://www.well.com/user/srhodes http://www.well.com/user/tcircus/Cobra/Spoon http://www.well.com/www/gunafa/ http://www.west.net/~jbc/ http://www.whitman.edu/~schussat/ http://www.wrldnet.net/~kas/ http://www.zipcon.com/stdale"}, {"response": 18, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (14:42)", "body": "I'm lost with all of those websites, I'll never get any work done!!!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "donr", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (18:04)", "body": ""}, {"response": 20, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (18:39)", "body": "Don't quit Donald. Try again."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (19:16)", "body": "Maybe he has no favorites."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (18:48)", "body": "http://www.redgreen.com 'Nuff Said !!!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (21:06)", "body": "What is this? A site to torment the color blind?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (04:15)", "body": "No, Joan, just a silly show about outdoorsiness, laziness, and incompetence so acute as to be enshired as a form of alternative intelligence...and other male flaws. Absolutely hilarious."}, {"response": 25, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (07:18)", "body": "The Red Green Show -- I haved happened upon it once or twice while channel surfing. Just stupid enough to be interesting! And now he has his own web site. Simply amazing."}, {"response": 26, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (10:09)", "body": "Cartalk.com - a woman after my heart!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (15:54)", "body": "Sharon: Cartalk.com - a woman after my heart! Oh Sharon, I just love Click and Clack! Don't know a damn thing about cars, but love the Tappit Brothers! ;-)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (17:41)", "body": "Me too! I rarely miss their radio show. But I listen to a LOT of radio."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (15:48)", "body": "I wonder if Donna listens to Car Talk?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (21:52)", "body": "www.dreamwv.com/shrink/shrink.html It's a ShrinkInABox. The world's first psybertherapist for NN3.0, as insightful as human psychotherapists and no more harmful."}, {"response": 31, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (01:58)", "body": "Can we asked him his opinion on thrust and dependency?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (05:30)", "body": "Let me know what your interaction is like Johanne!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (00:11)", "body": "Can we asked him his opinion on thrust and dependency? Is this a Freudian slip, Johanne?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (21:26)", "body": ""}, {"response": 35, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (07:00)", "body": "The British Tourist Authority Site has info. about film locations, including P&P2 and Emma... http://www.bta.org.uk/moviemap/"}, {"response": 36, "author": "jaye523", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (15:36)", "body": ""}, {"response": 37, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "Welcome Jaye."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (18:34)", "body": "Okay, just found a very cool website. If you like the game You Don't Know Jack (which, if you don't know about it, is hysterical) and have Win 95 running, you can now play it online and compete to win $100 daily/$1000 monthly prizes (and its free!)! http://www.berzerk.com"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (01:08)", "body": "Thanks Kaff! I love You Don't Know Jack! \"If Cindy Brady were stranded on Pluto, how many years would it take her to get home to her special pigtail curlers?\" ;-)"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Sat, May 24, 1997 (08:31)", "body": "Try www.boston.com for information on the news and happenings in the Boston area!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, May 24, 1997 (09:47)", "body": "Does Boston have a bunch of media giants battling for local market share like they do in Austin with the newspaper, the tv stations, etc. It's really heating up here."}, {"response": 43, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Oct 24, 2000 (08:04)", "body": "Austin has it's http://www.austin360.com and http://www.auschron.com , these are the two major news sites. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 134, "subject": "Lizzie: the first move?", "response_count": 27, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (13:11)", "body": "Do they kiss?!?! Are you absolutely certain without a doubt in your mind? No seriously...I shall leave you now... Must hurry home to watch and pause and form an opinion!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (15:38)", "body": "Ann2, here is what happens..... They are looking at each other, smiling. Then, their smiles start to fade, as they look at each other more intently. Lizzie glances down to his mouth, and back up to his eyes. He looks at her mouth, then back up to her eyes as they both start to lean in toward each other, slowly (bouncing around, naturally, with the motion of the carriage). His head is inclined naturally to the left (the better to see her face), but as they come closer he changes to lean to the right (the only artificial part of the s ene, because the only reason to do so is that the kiss would be blocked from the camera by his hat). Then they kiss, he parting his lips ever so slightly before they touch hers. They are kissing as the camera slows to a still shot....... There you are...."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (16:36)", "body": "Mari, I like the way you described the kiss. I liked it very well indeed. Would you care to take a stab at putting the Pemberley look into words? (Actually it might fit better the romance thread, but no matter, really. )"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (16:46)", "body": "I will not be at work tomorrow, but I will do my (ahem..) research tomorrow night (and maybe tonight also!), and Friday we will see how I get on."}, {"response": 5, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (13:09)", "body": "Mari, you are quite ingenious. I was getting totally exicted just reading what you wrote. Oh not in that way!!! But I could envision everything that happened. Did you have your VCR on pause and moved slowly during that scene? Pray tell!!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (13:14)", "body": "Thank you all for your high praise, indeed. Laura, I did not watch in slow motion, or pause; I merely rewound the tape over and over and over.... Looking at a different facet each time. First her eyes, then his, then her mouth, then his mouth.... What is a viewing of one scene 50 times when one has a good VCR? Yes, I call it an easy task, indeed."}, {"response": 7, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "Mari, just had occasion to read all the contributions above again as a victim of 'old is new'. Did you ever attempt to do the same with the Pemberley 'look'? If not, how about considering the project in the near future. I think that viewing the 'look' 50 times in succession just because you have a good VCR would have to be one of the all-time happiest projects to undertake (the chores can wait!)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (01:36)", "body": "Somehow I missed this thread my first time through, but I did mention in another thread that it appeared to me also that Elizabeth initiates the kiss. Not that I blame her, mind!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "winter", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (00:39)", "body": "and think of darcy's response to having such a beautiful bride be so bold! if he had any reservations about the wedding night, i'm sure lizzy's kiss certainly erased his doubts!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (00:45)", "body": "Oh god, over to the drooling thread?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (11:17)", "body": "I'll try to keep this PG -- I think Darcy realized from Lizzy's passion for the great outdoors; her general vivacity & joy in life; that she was NOT going to be a cold fish on that wedding night!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "Thanks for the cold shower, Amy (or is it the cooling dip in the pond?) ... I for one needed it!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (11:08)", "body": "I'd be more than happy to join Mr. D. in that pond if he asked me!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (07:29)", "body": "I sometimes wonder from whence we all got the idea that Lizzy had a \"passion\" for the outdoors. Perhaps from the same source which we derived that she would have scored \"Etrovert\" on a temperament-sorter test? Just curious - because I'm not sure that either conclusion is entirely correct."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (08:26)", "body": "Lizzy's willingness to walk three miles, I guess. Though you are right, the impression is mostly put in our heads by Davies."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (12:59)", "body": "Austen also has her taking frequent walks."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "Even I like taking walks outside, Ann...but I'm no happy camper...;)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (16:13)", "body": "Austen has her taking many walks, walking to Netherfield, lighter and faster runner than Jane (running to their father re: letter from Mr. Gardiner) and that is all in the book. Also, at Netherfield, she'd rather walk off on her own that with Darcy, CB and Mrs. Hurst - she obviously enjoyed looking at nature. And when she and the Gardiners went on their trip she said they would remember all their sights, etc., more so than other travellers."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:47)", "body": "Would you call this a passion for the outdoors? Or a simple appreciation? ;)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "I'd call it a love rather than a passion. I think she'd rather be outdoors than continually indoors a la Mary or Caroline Bingley, and she'd be just as happy alone or with others so long as the company was agreeable! But I think her passion she kept for Darcy!;-)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (21:29)", "body": "P.S. to above. In today's world I can easily see Lizzie as an environmentalist, with a love of nature and preserving the world's forests -- she'd also be a hiker through these forests!;-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (21:29)", "body": "P.S. to above. In today's world I can easily see Lizzie as an environmentalist, with a love of nature and preserving the world's forests -- she'd also be a hiker through these forests!;-)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (02:03)", "body": "Let's not get carried away...we all love the forests, but we're not all environmental lawyers...! ;)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (16:47)", "body": "Passion : definition 3# - Boundless enthusiasm. Yes, I think 'passion' is an appropriate description in light of the times and her contemporaries."}, {"response": 25, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (11:00)", "body": "I think Davies makes reference to Austen having Lizzie \"gambol about\" t.o. the book. And doesn't she express a real appreciation for the grounds at Pemberley as well?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "and wasn't she disappointed in not getting to see all the lake country?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (02:00)", "body": "Cindy: and wasn't she disappointed in not getting to see all the lake country? For a time...for a short time...;-) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 135, "subject": "Favorite TV Shows/Miniseries", "response_count": 143, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (21:46)", "body": "My favorite television shows are: The Simpsons (I'm partial to Lisa's intelligence, Krusty's sarcasm and the overall originality of the show.) Seinfeld ( I can't get enough of Newman, Kramer and George) Law & Order ( I prefer watching the reruns on A&E. I can't forgive the producers for firing Chris Noth. He brought humour, pain, and intelligence to the role of Mike Logan. Not to mention, he wasn't bad to look at either. I wonder what kind of Darcy he would have made.) Another World (I've been watching this soap since I was 4 years old. I love Carl Hutchins. What a great villain he was. He has transformed into a good person to gain the respect and love of his one and only Rachel Cory. He sort of sounds like Darcy when I think about it. Maybe that's the attraction. Or maybe it's the English accent and poetry he utters. Favorite Miniseries: Without a doubt, The Thorn Birds. I have it on tape and watch it whenever I get a chance. Richard Chaimberland is fantasctic as Father Ralph, the priest torn between his love for God and his love for Meggie. Not to mention, Barbara Stanwyck as Mary Carson, the older woman in love with Father Ralph. She plays a bitch to perfection."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:18)", "body": "Chris Noth! Oooh, what a fine suggestion for Darcy (no substitute for CF, however)! ;)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:45)", "body": "When my kid is watching TV, I enjoy RUGRATS on Nickelodeon--really! To see cartoons done from toddlers and babies' viewpoint (and eyelevel) is a scream, especially when the wicked Angelica is in her cynical, pick-on-the-babies mode. I used to watch MACGYVER since I'm an inventions and quick-fix freak (and the guy ain't bad lookin', either). There's a MACGYVER website, by the by, with great pix, scripts, etc. ARE YOU BEING SERVED? is my British comedy fix some evenings on PBS. Yes, I do have more culturally elevated tastes in TV also."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:54)", "body": "OMIGOD, France! I love Are You Being Served? ! It's the only thing that will get me through The Jim Lehrer Newshour ...;)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:55)", "body": "My favorite TV shows are Chef (PBS Comedy), The Eastenders, The Simpsons, Frazier, Homocide and Murder One. I have others but if I mention them I feel I watch too much TV. Karen"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:58)", "body": "Karen...you're the only other person I know who's even heard of Chef ...what a concept - an anal, egotistical cook..."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:59)", "body": "Historically: Bob Newhart Show, Dick Van Dyke Show, Andy Griffith Show, The Beverly Hillbillies (Granny's a hoot!), SCTV (Love the pototo joke), Yes, (Prime) Minister (The best-written sit-com in history), Today: Babylon 5, X Files, Homicide, Frasier, Cracker, Pinkey and the Brain (they were better before they got their own show)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (23:00)", "body": "Kali, I love Chef! They don't seem to have made very many episodes though."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (23:05)", "body": "Kali, I watch all PBS love \"Keeping Up Appearances\" also \"Charlie Rose\"."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (23:44)", "body": "Hyacinth Bucket? ;) I'm a Rhoda kinda girl right now. I'm waiting for Nick at Nite to bring back the Patty Duke Show ..."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (00:39)", "body": "Hyacinth Bucket is the modern version of Caroline Bingley. Oh Patty Duke Show, cute. My daughter loves Shirley Temple movies."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (00:52)", "body": "Or Mrs. Bennet! ;)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (01:22)", "body": "Historically (as someone has said, love it!) That Girl Dick Van Dyke Mary Tyler Moore Bob Newhart Carol Burnett Hill Street Blues LA Law MASH Northern Exposure All Star Treks Now: NYPD Blue ER Frasier Mad About You Murphy Brown Chicago Hope News Radio"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (01:26)", "body": "Cheryl, \"Anything But Love\" Richard Lewis and Jamie Lee Curtis."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (01:58)", "body": "Oooh, MASH! ;)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (07:03)", "body": "I love all cheryl's picks except Star Trek. I have to add Cheers and (I hope) INK which may be a new Cheers - I only saw one episode but it was great. Kali - I love Rhoda and Valerie Harper but really did not much care for the Rhoda show. The Mary Tyler Moore show seems timeless. My husband and I are always calling each other's attention to a \"great MTM moment\" about to strike."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (07:04)", "body": "I can't believe so many of you enjoy British comedies. In answer to one of the earlier responses. They are currently running the 4th or 5th series. I'm also astounded that some of you have seen Eastenders. BTW I've been told that my 6 month nephew looks just like Grant Mitchell!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (07:05)", "body": "Saturday Night Live is my all time favorite tv show, followed by Sunday Morning."}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (07:05)", "body": "slippage!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Kim", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (08:40)", "body": "I do not watch very much network T.V. However, I always try to watch Mad About You and Chicago Hope. I like the old shows such as I Love Lucy, The Honeymooners, and Perry Mason. I used to watch Murder She Wrote. I love the two mini-series of Poldark. I suppose my favorite mini-series is Jane Eyre with Timothy Dalton."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Kim", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (08:42)", "body": "I forgot about Fawlty Towers. I absolutely love that series. It is hilarious.."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (09:36)", "body": "The only show I make it a point to see is Remember WENN on AMC. I also like Rugrats (and I am 32 with no kids--but it is hilarious and Angelica is so bad) I think my favorite British sitcoms are The Good Neighbors and To the Manor Born I do like Biography on A&E, though I wish they would do JA."}, {"response": 23, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (10:06)", "body": "I love Doug, Rugrats. Angelica is not bad just normal. I was the same way nasty to the little ones but sweet as pie to the adults. I love David Duchovny. And I purposely stopped watching Law & Order when they canned Chris Noth, I loved him!!!!! I watch Chicago Hope, NYPD Blue, ER, Early Edition, Kyle Chandler is sooo Hot!!!! Laura"}, {"response": 24, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (11:45)", "body": "My guilty pleasure: TOO HOT TAMALES on the Food Channel. Featuring two fine female chefs who are great friends -- their banter is very P&P!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (13:27)", "body": "Oh Katy, how could I have left out Cheers? I am amazed at the oversight! Thank you for reminding me that it was one of my favorite shows! Donna, I also watched Anything But Love and was sorry to see it end so soon!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (14:25)", "body": "Which is better? Cheers or Frasier? I like Frasier better...much less caricature than the original series...the characters are a little easier to identify with..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (17:01)", "body": "Does anyone remember ''He and She\" with Richard Benjamin, Paula Prentis, Kenneth Mars and Jack Cassidy? I loved it, would be in heaven if Nick at Nite would pick it up."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (17:21)", "body": "Speaking of shows that you don't see in syndication or on cable networks with nostaligic sensibilities, how about Beanie and Cecil?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "PatK", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (20:25)", "body": "Beauty and the Beast All Star Treks (though the first is so hokey now that it's camp) Babylon 5 ER NYPD Blue Grace Under Fire Touched by an Angel Cybil MASH Fame Mary Tyler Moore Hill Street Blues China Beach Call to Glory Perry Mason Favorite mini-series (other than P&P2) -- Shogun (didn't like Thorn Birds because they didn't do the book justice though I did like Richard Chamberlain in it) Also -- has anyone ever seen a British comedy called Sweet Sixteen (I think that was the name of it)? Had to do with an older woman marrying a younger man. Only saw a couple of episodes but really enjoyed it."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (20:57)", "body": "Re: Eastenders Bernie, Eastenders has been shown on many public tv stations in the U.S. for 8 or 9 years now (although it's no longer available in my area). When it first started it was my absolute favorite thing on television--I would tape episodes I couldn't be there for, a real addict. But when they killed off Den the whole thing went downhill for me. He was the heart of that series. And then all the other good people left--Ethel (I loved Ethel!), Angie, Lou, Lofty, that nice Indian family that ran the convenienc store, etc. And now I hear that even Michelle is gone. Sad. BTW, a cable station ran Coronation Street for a couple of years in the early eighties and I really got into that too!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (22:54)", "body": "Kali, I agree with you regarding Fraizer (vs. Cheers). I really liked Cheers but I love Fraizer. The whole dynamic with his father, Niles, Roz and Daphne. The first episode this season had me in tears. Karen"}, {"response": 32, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (19:40)", "body": "Old tv shows never die, they just go into syndication! (As long as they'r available on videotape, that is.) Recent faves include: Absolutely Fabulous; Rugrats; Star Treks; ER; Homicide (incredible acting). Historical faves change, depending on what's in syndication, but include: The Addams Family; Hill Street Blues; Mary Tyler Moore; Bob Newhart. I could probably add many others. I actually watch a lot of tv -- have become a talented channel surfer, so I can watch several shows at the same time! It's an interesting way to view movies -- it takes me several viewings to figure out the full story line on some of them."}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (20:21)", "body": "Does anyone watch Dark Skies or X Files?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "McBruce", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (23:43)", "body": "Actually, Dark Skies is on my tv right now. Wheew. Unfortunately, getting access through my provider is on a hit or miss basis, so it's divided attention time. Trying to run through here during the ads."}, {"response": 35, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (16:54)", "body": "I never miss X Files (except if it involves maggots)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (17:20)", "body": "See the X-files topic in the tv conference. There's some new stuff there."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:20)", "body": "My favorite TV shows are mostly part of the Masterpiece Theatre genre. They are the ones I tape and watch over again - Six Wives of Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, Upstairs Downstairs, The Duchess of Duke Street, Lily, etc. Also loved the four Cadfael series I've seen, and among comedies, Waiting for God - another British comedy on PBS."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Becks", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (14:50)", "body": "My faves are: ER Seinfeld Fashion Television (Can. Show) Anything on A&E--Biography, American Justice The Anne of Green Gables Miniseries Cybil The Discovery Channel Thorn Birds The New Music (Can. show)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (20:53)", "body": "Cybil. I only saw one episode but it was very funny."}, {"response": 40, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (14:50)", "body": "Like I said elsewhere, I'm a MACGYVER fan as is my family. Love the ironic humor, the inventiveness, and Richard Dean Anderson's looks. If you're likeminded, check out this link for info on the show, actor, etc. (excuse me, I think my Swiss knife and duct tape are needed to fix something in the next room...) :-) http://www.cjnetworks.com/~mkelley/macgyver/"}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (14:57)", "body": "What are you fixing? The kitchen sink?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "fen", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (18:17)", "body": "Knowing the tv series, it could be anything from the sink to loose floor tile to a broken table leaf to tying up a burglar to creating a makeshift bow-and-arrow!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (13:29)", "body": "Our local family channel is still running some childhood faves : Captain Scarlet, Thunderbirds, Joe 90, etc. I love comparing different point of view regarding the news/events : american (ABC, PBS, NBC and CBS), French canadian: TVA and Radio-Canada, Anglo-canadian: CTV and CBC, Brit (BBC Newsworld and ITV) and European (TV5 presents news from the Belgium, Swiss and French). I really believed to be privileged of getting all those. In English, not to be snobish but much prefer PBS, A&E, Showcase and Bravo not to mention the Movie Network. Some network shows do distinguish themselves and love Frazier, an ER. Some fav series : the BlackAdder, P.G. Wodhouse's Jeeves and Wooster, Fawlty Tower, the Internet series. PBS Drama including most Mystery or Masterpice Theater programming like I, Claudius. Would the Wallace and Gromit trilogy fit in this category or in films?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (20:05)", "body": "Inko, I love Waiting for God ! I fear I will be just as ornery as Diana when I am her age...;)"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (13:04)", "body": "Did you know that \"Coke a Cola\" is handing out 3D glasses for \"3rd Rock From the Sun\" sometime soon. I do like to watch this show."}, {"response": 46, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (15:05)", "body": "Donna -- \"3rd Rock From the Sun\" is fun, is it not? I think John Lithgow is hilarious, much better at comedy than some of those dramatic/horror parts he has played in the movies."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (17:35)", "body": "Mobil Masterpiece Theatre WGBH Boston Winter 96-Spring 97 Schedule http://www.boston.com.80/wgbh/pages/masterpiecetheatre/mptwintspr97.html"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (17:42)", "body": "For some reason it doesn't work. Try this one http://www.pbs.org/programs/navigator/mse.html \"Scroll\" down to MMasterpiece Theatre \"click on\" Schedule and your there."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (19:04)", "body": "Lithgow made a great Lord Whorfin in Buckaroo Bonzai!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (19:13)", "body": "I just discovered this web site: http://www.neponset.com/brittv/index.htm It belongs to an outfit called Brit TV, which sells a videos of many British TV programs, including many never shown in the U.S. They also maintain a search service for videos not listed in their catalog, publish an industry-oriented newsletter about British tv, and sell related stuff like books, photos, trading cards, t-shirts, etc. They say, \"Brit TV is not a fan club but a service open to anyone with the need or desire to collect items from British film and television.\" Of course I can't vouch for them, having just discovered the site, but others may want to check it out."}, {"response": 51, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (21:42)", "body": "I mentioned this in chat the other night. In the Prime. PBS. Sunday night on PBS. Mention was made last night of Jane Austen's influence on relationships and loving between mature adults. This show is about midlife romance. It's on at 6:30 pm in Austin."}, {"response": 52, "author": "mrcollins10", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (11:45)", "body": "Washington Week in Review. History Channel. Politically Incorrect. Discovery Channel. A&E programming. Local nightly news."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (12:25)", "body": "Carl, I am a greta fan of Politically Incorrect as well! Do you think that it's move to a major network will have a taming effect? I certainly hope not! ;-)"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (00:33)", "body": "Anybody like TV Nation ?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (01:19)", "body": "Kali: Anybody like TV Nation ? Yes! Isn't it a hoot? Just saw one the other day about payback...they called the CEO of a telemarketing firm at 11pm posing as a phone soliciter-- it was so wonderful hearing him get so angry at someone bothering him at home, trying to get him to buy something! Ah...payback can be a bitch, can't it! LOL!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (03:15)", "body": "CLassics, Cheryl...absolutely CLASSIC! Michael Moore really has a pulse on teh vengeance thing, does he not? ;)"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (03:27)", "body": "CLassics, Cheryl...absolutely CLASSIC! Michael Moore really has a pulse on teh vengeance thing, does he not? ;)"}, {"response": 58, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "Haven been part of the tv generation, some will undoubtebly resurge every now and then like this one : UFO series 1969-1971, Century 21 (Alerte dans l'espace) Producers : Gerry Anderson, Reg Hill With Ed Bishop(Col. Straker), George Sewell, Michael Billington, Gabrielle Drake, Grant Taylor Music :Barry Gray In 1980, Earth is threaten by UFOs. The SHADO organization, based on both Earth and Moon is specialized in anti-UFO defense. Links : http://www.cnw.com/~mmartin/ufo/ http://www-bi.inrialpes.fr/cgi-bin/han/?FV=UFO"}, {"response": 59, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (22:50)", "body": "TV: X-Files Politically Incorrect Extreme Sports Seinfeld TV Nation 3rd Rock from the Sun NYPD Blue Homicide MINI-SERIES: Pride and Prejudice War and Rememberance"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (10:28)", "body": "I'm new here--just finished reading this thread and wanted to add something to the miniseries category: Lonesome Dove. Like P&P, the production is extremely faithful to the book, (which won a Pulitzer) and is one of the best examples of characterization and old fashioned storytelling I've ever seen! And I'm not really that big a fan of Westerns."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (14:33)", "body": "I liked the book, but never saw the miniseries..."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (15:19)", "body": "I urge you to rent it if you get a chance! Tommy Lee Jones and Robert Duvall are excellent, as is the rest of the cast. After seeing the miniseries, I couldn't ever picture any other actors as Capt. Call and Gus."}, {"response": 63, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (04:08)", "body": "ooooh, Tommy Lee Jones! :)"}, {"response": 64, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (17:17)", "body": "Favorite TV shows: Remington Steele(this is probably my fav, historically. Still have the pic his fan club sent me) Homefront Seinfeld Frasier Moonlighting Eastenders Absolutley fabulous Second Thoughts Fav miniseries: Winds of War, Thorn Birds, Jane Eyre(with yummy Tim Dalton), The Buccanners(can't get enough of EW or Nan and Guy) and being a good Canadian girl-the Anne of Greene Gable miniseries."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (23:40)", "body": "I definitely agree with Moonlighting and the Jane Eyre with Timothy Dalton. Also loved Northern Exposure."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (06:31)", "body": "\"Timothy Dalton\" will be on Regis and Kathy Lee on Wed. Feb.5."}, {"response": 67, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (09:21)", "body": "surely for Beautician and the Beast.... another Rocketeer? he can do better than that, can he?"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (12:43)", "body": "Yes, one certainly hopes so. He seems to have abominable taste in scripts. Started out with 'Lion in Winter', and moved on to.. 'Flash Gordon'!?! Needs a better agent, methinks."}, {"response": 69, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (17:01)", "body": "I read that Dalton made a tv movie of Edith Wharton's the REEf which will be shown on CBS, early this year. Let's just hope for his sake(I loved him in JE) and especially for EW's sake that the movie is good."}, {"response": 70, "author": "alix", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (18:58)", "body": "Myself, I never watch TV that much (odd,I know for a high school student), but I do make it a point to watch Remember WENN on AMC, as well as The X-Files, The Nanny, and my fave, The Simpsons. That has to be the only show other than Seinfeld that my friends watch- and I am always trying to keep up with my friends."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (19:15)", "body": "Cassandra: I read that Dalton made a tv movie of Edith Wharton's the REEf Timothy Dalton as Darrow? Isn't he much too old? And Darrow's an American. Do you know who play Sophy Viner and Anna Leath?"}, {"response": 72, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (21:57)", "body": "It has been an unfortunate downfall, say since the 007 debacle. I'll always remember him as Heathcliff and he was remarquable in it."}, {"response": 73, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (14:21)", "body": "NO. 72. Sorry Anne, I don't know."}, {"response": 74, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (19:50)", "body": "The only one so far that I like but haven't seen mentioned is One Foot in the Grave (British). Bill Cosby's show is supposedly based on this, but is really nothing like. I also like The single guy. Not sure why. I agree with: Anne of Green Gables! Jeeves and Wooster!! The stories are hilarious to read, aas well. Keeping up Appearances, Remember WENN - what great writing - but I always forget to watch it or when it's on. TD jane Eyre is great, too. has anyone seen the William Hurt one? Any good? Hard to imagine him as the brooding Mr. Rochester!!"}, {"response": 75, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (21:28)", "body": "One Food in the Grave -- yess! That is good. I was especially pleased (w/ myself) that I recognized Eric Idle singing the title song. This year I got into Babylon 5 -- haven't watched it previous seasons. Favorite funny line a couple of weeks ago included the comment that the character did \"not need a vacation at the Disney planet.\" I almost snorted my coffee. :-)"}, {"response": 76, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "\"This year I got into Babylon 5\" I love that show, it's my favorite! If you want me to fill you in on some of the back story, let me know."}, {"response": 77, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (01:11)", "body": "For a while I was having a string of really good luck jinxing my favorites right off the air - The Days & Nights of Molly Dodd, Reasonable Doubts, (something else which I can't remember right now), so that I resolved to not like anything so much that I couldn't bear to do without. My heart still hurts for these. Right now, tho' we do tape and watch Caroline, Friends(just for the Chandler, Joey, Phoebe half - the rest of them are wayyy too whiny!), Frasier, and Jeff Foxworthy (probably the only prime time my kids are into) DH does a lot of the ST:DS9 and Voyager, but I only watch with him if I really don't have anything else to do."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:29)", "body": "I really love Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman. I had never watched it in primetime, but I had surgery over the holidays and was home for three weeks; got hooked on the reruns being shown in the morning and have had to tape it since I got back to work. Parts of it are really sappy or fake (this is Colorado, yet the sun is always shining and it never snows, even when they're discussing having a \"hard winter\"), but the people interactions are right on and they're pretty realistic in dealing with Native American ssues of having their land taken away. Also, they have historical figures show up in town, which is kind-of fun. Plus, Joe Lando and William Shockley are pretty easy on the eyes. Anybody else like this?"}, {"response": 79, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (12:59)", "body": "I sort of like HOMICIDE--LIFE ON THE STREETS although there is some graphic violence, against the backdrop of Baltimore, Maryland. Interaction of the various policemen as they go about doing a very stressful job is very interesting. Extraordinarily realistic and I like the way certain characters continually reappear. An imperfect justice system where even serious crimes are never solved. Unfortunatly there is talk of taking that off the air."}, {"response": 80, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (23:42)", "body": "Anybody else a fan of Beauty and the Beast (Ron Perlman - Linda Hamilton version)? I loved it the first time around, then taped most episodes when they reran it on the SciFi channel."}, {"response": 81, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (05:21)", "body": "B&B -- an earlier obsession of mine!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:03)", "body": "Kathleen, what are some of your favorite episodes/scenes? I love the pilot, of course, but I also really love the \"A Happy Life\" episode where Catherine is so confused about what she and Vincent have and goes to spend some time with her friend in upstate New York. The ending, going back and forth between her driving home and Vincent coming up from the depths of below, with the beautiful music playing...wonderful!"}, {"response": 83, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "Susan -- yes. A Happy Life was wonderful. I remember watching, and I kept wanting to shout, \"Kiss him. Kiss her.\" What a lovely ending for that episode. I saw Roy Dotrice at a B&B Convention once. Marvelous storyteller. (I was embarassed when a B&B fan asked him if he was afraid he would be typecast. This was less than an hour after he told us about doing Abraham Lincoln in a one-man show.) Another episode (or part of it) was once when Catherine was in the hospital, and Vincent sneaks in to see her. She is barely recovered from the sedatives, but she tells him she had a dream about him. When he said, \"About me?\" I just wanted to melt. [Now, when am I going to have time to find, let alone rewatch, some of those tapes?!]"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (23:12)", "body": "Kathleen, you reminded me of another fave episode, which I unfortunately couldn't catch on tape. It's the one where Catherine's father dies and she brings Vincent to him and introduces them first, then she goes to live below for awhile and Vincent can't bear having her so near and not being able to do anything about it. Also really liked \"Winterfest.\" We find time for the things that are important to us! :-)"}, {"response": 85, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (06:04)", "body": "This week, my husband and I 'discovered' Spy Game (8:00, Monday) and laughed all the way through it. It was so much fun. Like a combo of \"Get Smart\", \"Man from Uncle\", and \"Remington Steele\" with central characters who could get drool thread of their own."}, {"response": 86, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (15:09)", "body": "haven't seen Spy Game and be sure to tune in next Monday, BTW here's the link to the show http://www.silcom.com/~njhua/spygame/spygame.html That's somewhat reminds me of 85-86 LTW' Dampsey and Makepeace, a coper show with a romantic comedy twist to it, now there was great chemistry between the two characters set in beautiful London. Let's say it was kind of counterpart to Remington Steele."}, {"response": 87, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (18:45)", "body": "Hmmm, I'll have to check that one out. I loved Remington Steele. One of my all-time fav tv themes too: \"Try this for a deep, dark secret. The great detective RS. HE doesn't exist, I invented him....\" I used to recite that every week and drive everyone crazy!! Anyone seen/like the 1984 adaptation of Scott Fitzgerald's classic Tender is the Night? It was a three-four part miniseries with Peter Strauss. Personally, that's the best adaptation I have ever seen of Fitzgerald's work. It came the closest to capturing the feel, look, magic of his novels-great location work and the music and costumes were wonderful. Peter Strauss made a convincing Dick Diver too."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (03:54)", "body": "Are Donna and I the only people who watch and enjoy the Red Green Show? It's a riot...a parody of male idiocy and human folly in general."}, {"response": 89, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:39)", "body": "Kali -- did you catch last weekend's PBS fundraising special: Red Green live for two hours! It was a stitch. It is a very funny show. (I guess that makes three of us, at the very least.)"}, {"response": 90, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (21:13)", "body": "My favorite is \"Politically Incorrect\" with host Bill Maher. I started a topic on this in the tv conference just now. http://www.abc.com/pi/index.html"}, {"response": 91, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (21:39)", "body": "Politically Incorrect was a huge favorite with my family. Alas, since it moved to ABC none of us can stay up late enough to see it. :-("}, {"response": 92, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (09:49)", "body": "Kali, Kathleen, Donna - I watch Red Green, too. Thought I was the only one....guess that makes four!"}, {"response": 93, "author": "Linda", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "Did anyone else love \"Homefront\"? Jeff and Ginger are among my favorite on-screen duos. Kyle Chandler kept me watching every week, no matter how many times ABC moved the show in order to kill it. I have been looking for it to be repeated on a cable station (History Channel, A&E), to complete my tape collection."}, {"response": 94, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (21:59)", "body": "Yes, Linda, I loved \"Homefront\", but it was so difficult to follow all over the dial. I also loved \"Brooklyn Bridge\" and CBS (I believe) killed that. I think I gave up watching much TV after all my favorites kept being killed off and was replaced by something a lot more stupid! I now watch mostly PBS!;-)"}, {"response": 95, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (23:12)", "body": "Loved Homefront!!!! And yes Jeff and Ginger-their romance was so cute, like a 30s screwball comedy. I especially loved Mimi Kennedy as the waspish Ruth Sloan. Great actress. My favorite Homefront episode has to be the thanksgiving dance episode when Jeff and Ginger compete against Charlie and his British war bride, the trampy Caroline. Ruth even dances-\"do you know how to make a martini, with palatable gin? DId you see her waistline-how young are these people?\" Terrfific writing."}, {"response": 96, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Me, too, on loving PI and not being able to catch it. I must admit that I don't even know when it's on! Also, absolutely love the showings of Whose Line Is It Anyway whenever they air!"}, {"response": 97, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (17:55)", "body": "Right after Nightline on ABC. They have transcripts on the website."}, {"response": 98, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "thx, Terry!"}, {"response": 99, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (19:57)", "body": "It's handy if you have a vcr with delayed recording so you can set it to tape for 11:00 pm every weekday night. Some VCRs do this."}, {"response": 100, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (21:38)", "body": "but that means I'll have to take my P&P2 tape out!!! :("}, {"response": 101, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "Mercy sakes."}, {"response": 102, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr  9, 1997 (15:15)", "body": "Man, this is scary--you guys are JUST LIKE ME!!!!! I htought I was the only me and here you are, hundreds of you--so WHY ARE OUR SHOWS BEING CANCELLED?!?!? Anyway, as they say, ditto to almost all of the above. I live for AbFab (bought all the tapes, got cable for The Last Shout)--got hooked on all the British soaps during a brief stint there in 88 (EastEnders, Coronation Street, etcetcetc)...adore the Brit SitComs (any other Vicar of Dibley fans? Dawn French is a riot as *spoiler alert?* well, not re ly since it's self-evident from the title, as the vicar of a small town in rural England). Man, how do you guys make fave lists? I'm such an indiscriminate addict!"}, {"response": 103, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (10:34)", "body": "Wow! I almost couldn't sleep last night--I was so excited about coming back here and I kept waking up to write down one more thing I wanted to mention. I'll split it up into several boluses, shall I? You must understand, I'm surrounded by anti-TV snobs wherever I go, so I have nowhere to chat about my Grand Obsession (background: In my childhood, my parents denied us almost any TV except Brady Bunch, so as an adult, I'm making up for lost time!). Throw on your life vests, this dam's about to burst! ne show I didn't see mentioned was Family (K MacNichol)(caveat: I can't spell actors' names). Loved it as a prepubescent. Can anyone name the show about the lady who ran a modeling agengy but was also a spy/detective (Cover Up?)--it also starred Jon-Eric Hexum before his tragic on-set accident with the prop gun (well, obviously it was before the accident--they wouldn't be able to use him afterwards!). It was cheesy but fun. Speaking of c-b-f, Fantasy Island? Love Boat? Mainstays of my pathetically ateless high school years. Watched Starsky & Hutch at slumber parties. Let's move on."}, {"response": 104, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (10:40)", "body": "Does anyone else follow actors instead of shows? I find myself watching otherwise unwatchable shows just because of one actor--case in point: I endured the execrable Evening Shade and the painful lack of chemistry between Burt Reynolds and that gal from Taxi solely to watch the magnificent Micheal Jeter. I put up with Cybill Shepard's excruciatingly self-conscious clowning (and, yes, I liked Moonlighting, bet there it was the chemistry, not her acting hooked me) in order to enjoy the amazing Christine aranski (any chance she'll take the Joanna Lumley role in the US AbFAb?). They destroyed Naked Truth , but I stay put because Tea Leoni's just that good (remember Flying Blind?)(Fox show a few years back). There are more, but let's move on..."}, {"response": 105, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (10:47)", "body": "Well, I had a really great segue, but now I forget...ah well. So, does antone else find themselves almost unable to enjoy t a show because you're smacking your forehead and saying \"I KNOW that actor--where have I seen them before?!?\"--drives me NUTS and I always remember it at 2AM! It's particularly bad with BBC-ers because they're all over the place in dramas, comedies, miniseries, and boy! do they endure! Like right now we have *spoiler alert* the murderer from a Morse episode (antique dealer kills an in wheelchair; plot hinges on telephone repair) as a CID detective in Thin Blue Line (MUST SEE this sidesplitting Rowan Atkinson vehicle!); also *spoiler alert* the murderer from the 1st Prime Suspect has ended up an alcoholic journalist in Class Act (MUST SEE this post-ab-fab Joanna Lumley vehicle: funny, sassy, entertaining). Which leads us to..."}, {"response": 106, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "I'm so excited my typing is all shot to pieces. I'll try to edit this one more carefully. I only saw passing mention of my true passion, the mysteries--they're almost the only thing I read, and I'm always thrilled to see them on screen: Morse, Dalgleish, the guy who *spoiler alert* married the artist Agatha Troy what is his name...; Marple/Wimsey/Poirot; Lovejoy, Dalziel&Pascoe, Frost, Cracker; and the frosting on the cake, the unbelievable Helen Mirren (oooh--gotta go back to the movie chat to rave ab ut Peter Greenaway!) as Jane Tenison in Prime Suspect. Any others out there I should know about or forgot to mention? Any news about Eliz George going to film?"}, {"response": 107, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (11:00)", "body": "Don't have a good segue as we've reached the miscelleneous portion of my notes. Shows I adore because they evoke a simpler time or place: Open All Hours (Diana from Waitg Fr God as the indominatable widow Mrs Featherstone: \"You're wierd, Greville!\"; the old bat NOT applying for the housekeeping position, addressing the mop: \"Coostomeh? Ai'm noot a coostomeh!\"); All Creatures Great and Small (just hearing the opening theme music relaxes and cheers me like an hour of medidative yoga); I'll Fly Away (a t me of strife, yes, but depicted with such grace and dignity)."}, {"response": 108, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (12:13)", "body": "I got kicked off the super departmental computer and am now on a much lesser model with no editing capabilites and very limited access so let's see how far we get. Last few notes: other actors I follow are Alison LaPlaca (what was the name of that Fox show where she was the bitchy realtor/sidekick to the sappy love story of the main character?); Helen Hunt (blew me away with her NON Method, totally natural acting in St Elswehere); Patricia Heaton (Was that It Takes Two where she was the TV exec with mom Linda Lavin?); the skinny lanky-haired brunette with slightly buck teeth who's currently a former AIDS researcher on Chic Hope but used to be on WIOU and ?Live Shot, two short-lived but entirely watchable shows from a few seasons ago. Run-on sentence! Take a breath. WARNING: Do NOT get hooked on any show I mention: I am the kiss of death. Even shows I don't like but tune into (EZ Streets) burst into flames and die horrible deaths, all because I GOT HOOKED! I tried to watch Sentinel, but gave up whe they refused to actually hinge plots on his unusual abilities--why bother making this quasi-90s-bionic guy if his powers are extraneous to the plot?!?! OK, almost done. Anne3--THEY KILLED OFF DEN?!?! I had a bizarre viewing of Eastenders: In London, Den had done something very bad and was in everyone's bad graces; I came home and PBS was showing episodes that were leading up to Den doing something bad, BUT I NEVER GOT TO SEE WHAT HE DID!!! Did he burn down the bar? I have a great video store nearby that has a huge selection of various TV series (Cracker, Froct Class Act, etc) but man! I wish they'd get some of the Brit soaps! One more actor: The gal in all the Britcoms from Good Neighbors, To The Manor Born, Executive Stress--adore her!! What was the name of that one where the main character ran a temp agency with her daughter and ended up re-connecting with her old WWII flame? OK, that's all I can think of for now. I hope someone returns to this topic to help me out!"}, {"response": 109, "author": "fen", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (14:19)", "body": "Sorry, but I'm a terse writer by contrast, Aubrey! Just a quick response: 1) I too love Herriot series and wish the'd be replayed in entirety soon; 2) There's a gal who has a McGyver web page that's good & she too is sadly bemused by her Kiss of Death on loved TV shows, too."}, {"response": 110, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (20:55)", "body": "OK, Aubrey, after all that effort, I'd feel bad if I didn't respond at least a little bit. I put up with Cybill Shepard's excruciatingly self-conscious clowning (and, yes, I liked Moonlighting, bet there it was the chemistry, not her acting hooked me) in order to enjoy the amazing Christine Baranski. Isn't CB the best? Unfortunately, I don't like the overall show enough to watch regularly, though. Alison LaPlaca (what was the name of that Fox show where she was the bitchy realtor/sidekick to the sappy love story of the main character?) That was Duet, with Mary Page Keller and Chris Lemmon (Jack's son). I LOVED that show!"}, {"response": 111, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Apr 11, 1997 (08:39)", "body": "THANK YOU for your responses--sorry I'm so wordy but I really have been storing all of this up for so long with no one to talk to! And thank you for your helpful i.d., Susan--I really liked Duet a lot, and actually first started watching it for the \"sappy love story\"; only later did I come to appreciate the sassiness of Ms LaPlaca (who has shown up guesting on TWO shows in a row this week: as the egomaniacal fashion maven in Temporarily Your, a dubious sitcom starring Debra Mazar, who might want to rethi k the whole career switch from drama; and her recurring role as Rachel's boss on Friends!) You guys must have (a) fabulous computers and (2) amazing know-how to be able to do things like put the pertinent sections of my ramblings in your response in italics no less, plus all that business of linking to other websites. This truly is a whole nother world!"}, {"response": 112, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Apr 11, 1997 (20:57)", "body": "It's not that hard, Aubrey. We even have a place in austen, middlemarch or drool somewhere where you can practice your html. And if you decide you want a website, it's yours free for the asking."}, {"response": 113, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Apr 14, 1997 (08:43)", "body": "You are too kind, terry--no I mean it, REALLY too kind. Clearly you weren't present during my teeny tiny baby intro to the internet class where I made an aspic of myself by axing all kind of dumbo questions. However, I shall remove myself to the aforementioned topics/conferences and see if there's anything I can do without ruining life as we know it on this planet! Getting my own website might be a little TOO scary!"}, {"response": 114, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Tue, Apr 15, 1997 (09:08)", "body": "I missed your comment, fen--all my verbiage got in the way! Did you loathe the replacement wife on ACG&S as much as I did? The first one was so pretty and sweet and the second one was just a cow!"}, {"response": 115, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (10:31)", "body": "Did anyone else get all caught up in The Dame Edna Experience?"}, {"response": 116, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (10:41)", "body": "And by the way, terry, I'm not finding anywhere to \"practice\" html! Any further guidance?"}, {"response": 117, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (21:25)", "body": "Did you check middlemarch and drool?"}, {"response": 118, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (13:26)", "body": "I did yesterday; the problem is with my hookup which wouldn't even take me to the casbah where htmling goes on (it's only available in one of the 3 places you suggested, austen I think). Instead I get some yield sign and a halt who goes there message. I'll try again. When I'm less cranky."}, {"response": 119, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (23:38)", "body": "Really, give it another go. Do you want a telnet account, aubrey? It's *much* faster. That's what I use."}, {"response": 120, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Apr 18, 1997 (08:12)", "body": "I think a telnet account, whatever that might be, would be WAY too much fun for the likes of me! Does it work for people using state-owned and operated computers? Sadly, I lack my own device and depend heavily on the kindness of The State to support my ever-growing Net addiction. How good does you computer have to be? This one is total crap. The one I usually use is better but belongs to the whole department so I can't really treat it as mine. I'll try the htmling thing again later today (right now omeone's using the dept, good comp for slide-making, actual work-related projects. Fancy that!) because sometimes I get yield messages but it's just our server acting cranky."}, {"response": 121, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Apr 19, 1997 (00:48)", "body": "Any Windows 95 or 3.11 machine has telnet. Take a look at the telnet programs at http://www.stroud.com . I like ws-ftp. Windows 95 is easy. Just click on the start button and type telnet://www.spring.com Login with your username (you have to email me a username and password to set up) then type bbs. Then you just type 'r' to read, 'r' to respond and 'b' to browse. It greatly reduces your wait time."}, {"response": 122, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Apr 21, 1997 (13:18)", "body": "I've got that CAN DO! attitude (see my ramble--I changed my car tire! I am woman hear me roar!) so when I get a minute, I'll get on it!"}, {"response": 123, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Apr 22, 1997 (23:29)", "body": "You'll need a username and password set up by me to do this, which I'll be glad to do. Email or call me for this. mailto://terry@spring.com or phone 512.303.4000 evenings."}, {"response": 124, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (09:05)", "body": "ummmm...I'm in over my head...that stroud thing is all greek to me! Let me e-mail you (can't do it from this computer for some reason) and try again. There doesn't seem to be a start button at stroud, just a lot of gibberish about apps. I'll also try the html site wherever it was here. Just to be sure: it's not a problem that this is not in any way my own computer, that it belongs to the State, etc? (the reason I can't e-mail is it's departmental so there is no one person for whom it has an specifie e-mail return address)"}, {"response": 125, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 24, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "Go to any app in Stroud and then go to Forrest's review. The next step takes you right here, to the apps conference on the Spring."}, {"response": 126, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Apr 25, 1997 (08:31)", "body": "I don't know why I'm having such a block here. Though I know I've been to that Stroud location before (from the app conf, maybe?), now my computer slams me with \"does not have a DNS entry\" whenever I try to go there. It says that a lot. What does that mean? Can I get around it? Also, my friend who's trying to get on the spring said he left me a message in \"telnet\"--when I try to go there (from welcome page), mr.computer says \"unable to find application\". Application THIS, pal! What am I doing wrong Besides giving up too easily (I am a little cautious about trying anything too fancy with this machine, since if I break it, the wheels of science grind to a halt in the neuro dept!). I'm sorry to seem like such a whinger, terry, but I do want to try some of the cool things you've suggested and I don't seem to be getting anywhere!"}, {"response": 127, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Apr 25, 1997 (08:40)", "body": "Plus, another message I get all-too-often just happened when I tried to click on the homepage line on the first spring screen: \"FILE NOT FOUND The requested URL (whatever) was not found on this server.\" This happens a lot with Spring stuff. Also when I jump around topics, I sometimes get some message about how it can't go back to a previous page because the information has expired (let's have a little funeral) or something. Do I have a lazy server?"}, {"response": 128, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Apr 25, 1997 (09:21)", "body": "\"does not have a DNS entry\" whenever I try to go there. Go where? To www.spring.com? You need to email with the username and password that you want to be set up with. Please have your friend email me for an account or they can sign up through the web. If you get \"file not found\" messages. Make a note of the exact link and I'll make it work."}, {"response": 129, "author": "Celt", "date": "Sat, Apr 26, 1997 (17:56)", "body": "I was just trying to get some info about the new version of Jane Eyre that'll be on A&E. Does anyone happen to know when it'll be on yet? Also, I noticed that there are many fans of Ciaran Hinds and Timothy Dalton around here..good-I like them too. I'm extremely excited to see how Ciaran will fill the Rochester role."}, {"response": 130, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Apr 28, 1997 (08:18)", "body": "On your welcome screen I have 3 choices vertically and 4 choices horizontally. Of the 4 horizontal choices, clicking on \"telnet www.spring.com\" gives me the \"unable to find application\" response (I will e-mail a username and password,if that's what's required--but I guess I need more info: what does it mean to have a telnet account? Not philosophically, of course, but practically); clicking on \"Stroud CWSA\" produces (after a loooong pause) the \"no DNS entry\" response. Not that that's critical--I know can get to Stroud from your html thingie a few responses back. The other links that don't work--let me play around, make careful notes (that's the research scientist in me comin out!) and get back to you. I appreciate all your help terry!"}, {"response": 131, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Apr 28, 1997 (08:43)", "body": "Well, I played around a little with your first page, the one that appears when one types in \"www.spring.com\". I suspect most of the problems I'm having are related to my lazy server! I used to get cool graphics, a really neat \"The Spring\" lettering thing. That doesn't come up anymore (there's a hole at the top of the page where there obviously should be something nice), there's just one of those little symbols that lets you know you're not seeing all there is to see (ok, that's not very descriptive, s rry). For \"sign up or log in now\" I get \"unable to locate server: yapp.html does not have DNS entry\". For \"visit our home pages\" I get the same message. When I click on the URL right after \"Here's a sample...\" I get \"The requested URL/yapp-bin/read/homepage/2 was not found on this server\"--again, it's probably just my server! So I'll let you know that kind of trouble I land in in future, ok?"}, {"response": 132, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Apr 28, 1997 (08:55)", "body": "Here's the coolest error message I get: when I go away from the spring abruptly--like, I try to send e-mail, I'll suddenly get the message \"DATA MISSING This document resulted from a POST operation and has expired from the cache. If you wish you can repost the form data to recreate the document by pressing the reload button\" which works great, incidentally, always brings me back to The Spring!"}, {"response": 133, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Apr 29, 1997 (00:11)", "body": "I was just trying to get some info about the new version of Jane Eyre that'll be on A&E. Does anyone happen to know when it'll be on yet? Also, I noticed that there are many fans of Ciaran Hinds and Timothy Dalton around here..good-I like them too. I'm extremely excited to see how Ciaran will fill the Rochester role. Heather, Jane Eyre is supposed to be on in September in the US. People who have already seen it in England say it's pretty good, and Hinds was a fairly effective Rochester. I can't wait to see it!"}, {"response": 134, "author": "Lecteur", "date": "Thu, Aug 14, 1997 (19:54)", "body": "Well, I have a few levels of favorite shows. NYPD BLUE is my religion practically. Never miss it. Never go out and tape it. Ever. Am always home to watch it every week. I don't watch repeats of it at all. Then, there's ER, Frasier, Ellen, Party of Five, and 3rd Rock which I watch every week, but tape if I won't be home. Then there are a few others that I like to watch if I'm home. The saddest cancellation of my life was the Bonnie Hunt show on CBS. Followed by My So Called Life. My favorite miniseries was the Thorn Birds, but I've only watched one and a half miniseries. The other one was The Odyssey."}, {"response": 135, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 14, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "My favorite tv show remains Politically Incorrect, if I can hang in there that late. And of course Saturday Night Live, as always."}, {"response": 136, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Feb 27, 1998 (22:16)", "body": "Does anyone else think TV really sucks this season? NYPD Blue: Diane lost the baby and Sipowicz can't pee: yawn. Homicide hasn't been on for like a month, being pre-empted by everything from the Olympics to Hanson. ER is running hot and cold, and even my absolute fave, Law & Order has been forgettable this year. I wind up watching reruns of Almost Perfect on Lifetime at 11:00 because it's the most entertaining thing on (well, next to Loveline)..."}, {"response": 137, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb 28, 1998 (12:46)", "body": "What's Almost Perfect like?"}, {"response": 138, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Mar  1, 1998 (20:13)", "body": "It's a romantic comedy featuring Nancy Travis as a harried TV producer, supported by a writing team of 3 guys, each hilarious in his own way. She's in love with an equally harried D.A. and the chemistry between them is very magnetic. Even my husband enjoys watching this show (if he can stay awake that late!) Check it out (unless you've scrambled the \"Lifetime\" channel!)"}, {"response": 139, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Mar  6, 1998 (09:25)", "body": "hey ho everyone! I got near a tv the other night and watched part two of the Star Trek holodeck extravaganza! Gotta love them moving pictures!"}, {"response": 140, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Apr 28, 1998 (22:28)", "body": "Anyone see Merlin on NBC the other night? See my comments in 'babes' about Miranda Richardson, Isabella Rosellini, and Helena Bonham Carter's performances which were very fine."}, {"response": 141, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Apr 28, 1998 (22:47)", "body": "We have a hot debate on who some of the actresses were over in topic 17 in babes. And some pix of the three lead actresses. Worthwhile stuff!"}, {"response": 142, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Apr 29, 1998 (20:54)", "body": "Did anybody catch NYPD Blue last night??? WOW! I think that's the best episode all season. And I'm not at all looking forward to next year, with Jimmy Smites leaving (he is SO hot!); I hope he turns up somewhere else...."}, {"response": 143, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Oct 24, 2000 (08:05)", "body": "Has anyone seen the new show with Ted Dantzen and his wife and another couple? I saw it last night but can't remember the name of it. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 137, "subject": "Lady Catherine - Who told her about the engagement?", "response_count": 95, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (22:18)", "body": "In the book Lizzy speculates that the Lucas's thought that since Jane was getting married perhaps Lizzy would also. This became the rumor which found its way to Charlotte and thence to Mr. Collins and thence to Lady C."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "alternative suggestions have included; Charlotte found out from her lover (Colonel Fitzwilliam) Miss Bingley told Lady Catherine servants gossip (no excuse for interference is below Lady Catherine) I'm sure there were others which I've forgotten"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (00:12)", "body": "Hey, in P&P 1 they have Charlotte say to Mr. Collins: \"He {Mr. Darcy} is in love with Elizabeth\"said Charlotte. Mr. Collins replies to Charlotte \"L. Catherine will not stand for that\". This is as you see Mr.D walking back after the first proposal to Rosings. This could confirm that Mr. Collins was very upset at the thought of Lizzie marring to well and maybe he would be mad/jealous enough to tell L.Catherine so she would stop the marriage. He did say to Lizzie \"My dear cousin you may never have another pr posal of marriage\". He was highly insulted that Lizzie turned him down. He thought \"How could she ever refuse me\". How could she not. If we use all of the information from both adaptations and the book everything points to Mr. Collins. Anna,someone said Mr. Darcy himself let it be known."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (04:37)", "body": "I thought I remebered a sneaky suggestion, but I cannot believe it of Darcy."}, {"response": 5, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (08:48)", "body": "In the book, it seems pretty clear that the Lucas family wrote to Charlotte about Jane's engagement and also speculated that Lizzy & Darcy would become engaged. Mr. Collins' letter to Mr. Bennet mentions that this subject was \"by the same authority\" as his info re Jane & Bingley. Mr. Collins then writes that he has \"reason to imagine that . . . Lady Catherine . . . does not look on the match with a friendly eye.\" What I think happened, as Lizzy speculates in the book, is that the local gossiped about Darcy being around the Bennets nearly as much as Bingley. Once there is an engagement, etc. The Lucases wrote this news to Charlotte, Mr. Collins kindly informed his noble patroness, she reacted w/ less than subtle anger, then took off for Longbourne so quickly that she got there before Mr. Collins' letter! (I do agree that the Charlotte & Col. Fitzwilliam connection is a more interesting theory, however!)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "IF", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (10:44)", "body": "I'd say that the Lucas'a spread the rumor.I always thought that Sir William had somehow got it into his head that Lizzy and Darcy would be a great couple and that he should be the one to bring them together.Remember that he was the one who tried to get Lizzy and Darcy to dance at Lucas Lodge and he congratulated them on dancing at the Netherfield ball.So when Jane became engaged to Bingley Sir William thought that Lizzy and Darcy would not be to far behind.He told Charlotte and she told Mr. Collins and th ts how I think Lady C. heard of the engagment.Just a thought."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (12:40)", "body": "IF! It is good to hear from you, it has been an age! Welcome back! How was your Christmas in Ireland?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (12:44)", "body": "Well to get back on track, I think that the Collinses said something to Lady C. In the book, Charlotte and Maria get back whilst Mr Darcy is still there, Charlotte says to Lizzy \"He must be in love with you\" I'm quoting from memory. that was before the famous proposal and let down scene. 50 miles of good road scene. Even in the book I love that scene because Lizzy is totally clueless as to what Mr Darcy is getting to. \" You would not always want to be near Longbourne....?\" In the miniseries JE's expre sion at showing us her confusion is classic. Oh sorry, I think Charlotte mentioned something to Mr C and he said something to Lady C."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (23:46)", "body": "Thanks for the responses but help me with this. Do you really think Lady C. would travel to Longbourne on an idle report from Mr. Collins? I understand from the novel in Mr. Collins' letter, he alludes to the information being from the Lucases. The bottom line is that Mr. Collins would have to back up this claim but Darcy/Bingley sightings at Longbourne. I think Lady C. would demand more proof or expect this information to come from a close friend, like Col. Fitzwilliam (inadvertantly) or our friend M ss Bingley (for foul purposes only)."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (03:04)", "body": "Karen: \"Do you really think Lady C. would travel to Longbourne on an idle report from Mr. Collins?\" I think that when Lady C. heard this rumor, she immediately dismissed it, but upon reflection, recalled how often Darcy had visited the parsonage during Lizzy's sojourn in Kent, that he looked at and spoke with her a great deal. Then she happened to glance over at Anne, compared her \"beauty\" to that of Lizzy's, admitted to herself that Darcy, although he certainly should have been by now, did not appear to be enamored of Anne, got very distressed and immediately sent for the barouche! She could n t afford to take any chances if she were to see her daughter safely married to Darcy!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (11:01)", "body": "Okay here is the real story. Darcy went to Lady C and said \"listen mum, I am in love with Miss Elizabeth Bennet and want to marry her and nothing you say or do will ever make me change my mind. I do not not and will never love Anne! But you must do something for me and I'll give you L1,500. You must travel to Longbourne and tell Miss Elizabeth that you will never allow her to marry me. You will then get her to state her feelings about me, is this clear. Your windows need cleaning by the way.\""}, {"response": 12, "author": "jane", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (11:30)", "body": "Laura, I think you've got it! LOL. But if Mr. Darcy is as picky about housekeeping as you say, I change my mind about wanting him to drop in at my house someday. Jane"}, {"response": 13, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (12:35)", "body": "I had too. It just seemed so natural. But I think Darcy would love your house he just hates Lady C."}, {"response": 14, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (18:20)", "body": "Of course, in P&P0, Huxley has Darcy and Lady C. in cahoots in just such a plot. I always thought the main suspect/yenta was Mr. Collins. I think he thinks he's doing Lady C. a tremendous favor by blabbing, and thus securing her favor."}, {"response": 15, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:36)", "body": "I dare say that Mr. Collins did not hear a WORD about it from Charlotte, she hates him, so why would she ever tell him her fancies, which she did not tell her dear friend yet? I think it's more likely that the Lucases just gossiped too loud, maybe Lady Cathrine herself heard the."}, {"response": 16, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (05:05)", "body": "Oh, Ayelet, I do not think that Charlotte hates him. She appreciates his character, connections, and situation in life, and that he is not malicious. But she also recognizes that of some delights (as Lizzie says) a little goes a long way."}, {"response": 17, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (13:28)", "body": "In P&P1, they have Charlotte go out of her way to tell Mr. C. that Darcy \"is in love with Elizabeth\": when she sees him walking back after his aborted first proposal, I believe. . ."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (13:30)", "body": "Don't you prefer the understated understanding between Lizzy and her friend in P&P2? About Darcy, and Mr Collins, too. They don't have girl talk and don't seem to have to."}, {"response": 19, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "\"They don't have girl talk and don't seem to have to. \" Great point. I hadn't noticed, but you are right. JA never lets her ladies talk about such things. But in P&P2, they did not have to! Much better!!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (17:30)", "body": "Oh, I don't know... the way this group likes to dish, I'm surprised that we can't dream up a scene where Charlotte and Lizzy have a heart to heart about their beaus.;)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:09)", "body": "Mari: the way this group likes to dish, I'm surprised that we can't dream up a scene where Charlotte and Lizzy have a heart to heart about their beaus.;) Ewwwww! I don't think that I want to hear anything having to do with Mr. Collins' love life! Ducktape, please! ;-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (15:20)", "body": "\"And normally I use this bed chamber, my dear Lizzy. Mr. C prefers the larger room for its size and its view of the lane. This room is very quiet and comfortable. So you see, we sometimes pass an entire night without being in one another's company at all. I am very well satisfied.\""}, {"response": 23, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (15:21)", "body": ""}, {"response": 24, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (15:22)", "body": "Sorry, Cheryl - couldn't resist such a challenge."}, {"response": 25, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (15:52)", "body": "Interestingly enough, the only character whom Lizzy \"dishes\" with (besides Jane) is Wickham! Have you ever noticed how their discourse about Lady C., Mr. Collins, etc. is much more forthright than between Lizzy & Darcy? It really struck me in Episode II."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (16:55)", "body": "To do away with the positive view on their mutual understanding at that early stage of their acquaintance first: Lizzy and Wickham were both of an open,sociable and easy disposition. But it did them no good (their chats really brought forward the less agreeable sides of her personality)as Lizzy wanted to hear bad things about Darcy and all his connections( maybe due to hurt pride and some prejudice ;~) ) And Wickham was always ready to feed her something unfavourable about Darcy, in order to make her think better of himself. I do not doubt, that he found her attractive and fun to be with. And regarding Mr Collins who could resist a joke or two at his expense? About his conversation and boasting.\"There's lot's to be had of it\" and \" her Ladyship is fond of a good blaze then?\""}, {"response": 27, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (13:04)", "body": "I guess I could then ask: Did Darcy's reticence do _him_ any good? Did not immediately revealing Wickham's character early on -- at the Netherfield Ball when Lizzy first brings it up -- only lead to Lizzy's increased prejudice toward him? I'm only playing Devil's advocate because Ann2 can make flashing text & I can't!!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (17:38)", "body": "LOL Amy2 re. the flashing text!! I think Darcy couldn't have said more than he did at the ball. He would have been overheard by other dancers, it involved his own sister, and they were always being separated by the dance which would make it difficult to keep any train of thought going! I doubt it increased Lizzie's prejudice against him except that it had five more months to simmer!!;-)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:34)", "body": "Can't blink ? visit the tutorial: http://www.spring.com/~anneh/tagsaaaa.html or use the HTML tutorial link from the main page. I really did try to make it easy to figure out. (Disclaimer: Blink doesn't work with MS Explorer)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "Blink doesn't work with MS Explorer Why not?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (20:29)", "body": "]]Blink doesn't work with MS Explorer ]Why not? because MS Explorer doesn't support blinking text (Microsoft's choice)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "]because MS Explorer doesn't support blinking text (Microsoft's choice) Bill Gates is currently working on Blink98, a real contender in the HTML command field."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "]Blink98, a real contender in the HTML command field."}, {"response": 34, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "Ann2 can make flashing text & I can't!! Actually, you can - you just won't be able to see it blink yourself. But if you put the tag in, those whose browsers will blink will see it."}, {"response": 35, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (12:40)", "body": "I don't know guys -- I think I'm Blinking Text Challenged. . ."}, {"response": 36, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "Well I will try something but for a one reason or another I cannot seem to go into the practice mode ."}, {"response": 37, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (13:13)", "body": "I did it!! I did it ."}, {"response": 38, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (11:08)", "body": "You guys are lowering my self-esteem. I'm going to need federal matching money to get over this!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (17:07)", "body": "Getting back to the topic...reading the book after I saw the movie...I had thought maybe it was Georgiana...The night that Lizzie and the Gardiners left Derbyshire...remember when Darcy left the room after Ms. Bingley queried about why he was so quiet? What if...Georgiana had gone to her brother and asked about his feelings for Lizzie (remember in the Inn when Lizzie and Georgiana first met and Lizzie said \"I've heard so much about you\" and Georgiana replied, \"And I about you\". Certainly Darcy had been t lking about Lizzie to her...what if she had gone to her brother in concern and asked why Lizzie had left, what was bothering him, was he in love with her?\" Then, one trip to (Aunt) Lady Catherines when she mentioned him marrying her daughter...and Georgiana might have just remarked,\"but aunt...I fear my brother is in love with someone else!\" Who could have kept the someone else from Lady Catherines harsh inquiry - certainly not sweet, shy Georgiana...and wha-lah!....Lady Catherine is in her carriage fas er than you can say \"Oh, I have such tremblings and flutterings all over me!\" Just thought I'd throw in another possibility! Linda In Georgia"}, {"response": 40, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (17:40)", "body": "It was Mr. Collins who told her - NO DOUBT. Sir Lucas was the source. I think any correspondence that came from Lucas Lodge to Hundsford was probably read by both Charlotte and Mr. Collins. (They have nothing else to say to each other!) Though I don't think Charlotte's loyalties necessarily are with Elizabeth. She didn't think twice about encouraging her cast-off. Also, Sir Lucas was highly likely to have made the probable engagement of Lizzy and Darcy into an actuallity, just as he did before with Jane and Bingley."}, {"response": 41, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "It was Mr. Collins who told her - NO DOUBT. Sir Lucas was the source. I think any correspondence that came from Lucas Lodge to Hundsford was probably read by both Charlotte and Mr. Collins. (They have nothing else to say to each other!) Though I don't think Charlotte's loyalties necessarily are with Elizabeth. She didn't think twice about encouraging her cast-off. Also, Sir Lucas was highly likely to have made the probable engagement of Lizzy and Darcy into an actuallity, just as he did before with Jane and Bingley."}, {"response": 42, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (10:11)", "body": "But Sharon....would Mr. Collins have risked getting the ole\"Dowager\" upset with him in the room? He seemed like he always walked on eggshells when he was around her...although, he would do anything to get in her good graces...but she would have bitten his head off! Linda in Ga."}, {"response": 43, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (10:57)", "body": "Linda in GA: Mr. Collins would do to ingratiate himself with her by taking her side and passsing along the warning to her. Tattle- tail, tattle-tail. Of course, since he probably has a little residual spite over Lizzy rejecting him, he think that Lizzy isn't good enough for a man in Darcy's position, either. Remember, he told her then that she wouldn't get an offer from anyone else. Then later when she was leaving the parsonage to return home, he kind of threw it in her face that she missed out on the privalege that Charlotte now has. \"...and altogether I trust it does not appear that your friend has drawn an unfortunate- But on this point it will be as well to be sil nt\". What a Jerk. Also note the language in the letter he wrote to Mr. Bennet."}, {"response": 44, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "Oh Linda, an additional thought - Mr. Collins corresponds regularly with Mr. Bennet, so it is likely that he also personally writes to Sir Lucas, his own father-in-law. So in the course of THAT connection, Sir Lucas may have written directly to Mr. Collins with his gossip."}, {"response": 45, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (08:59)", "body": "The ole' snoop.... and...Sir Lucas would have formed this bit of gossip from the fact that Darcy had been visiting Longbourne with Mr.Bingley? Isn't it funny that Sir Lucas would have seen something that Lizzies own parents could not see! Do you think that Sir Lucas had bad intentions or just told the latest news without a thought about what rucus he would be creating?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (10:07)", "body": "If Mr. Lucas is the culpert then it was done with good intentions,because he liked Mr.Darcy.From the very begining he could see Darcy's interest in Elizabeth. The same with Charlotte,see could see it too. I think he liked being the matchmaker."}, {"response": 47, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (12:41)", "body": "That could be. He did seem to like Lizzie too (although startled by her frankness). I think that Charlotte really was a good friend to Lizzie and valued her friendship as well. If they were the ones that let the cat out of the bag..I think it was not for meanness..."}, {"response": 48, "author": "sld", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "Haven't you guys ever spent any time in a small town? All there is to do is know everybody's business, and what you don't know, you conjecture. That is all that was going on. But in Sir Lucas's mind, he probably believed that it was gonna happen. Not because he has any great insight or intuition, but he is just stretching, as some people without a lot of sense do. Even Caroline Bingly made a comment to Darcy when he admired fine eyes in the face of a pretty woman. \"How long has she been such a favorite? -and when am I to wish you joy?\" she says. Darcy responds, \"That is exactly the question which I expected you to ask. A lady's imagination is very rapid; it jumps from admiration to love, from love to matrimony, in a moment. I know you would be wishing me joy.\" Well, the news is, that it is not just a lady's imagination that can work that way."}, {"response": 49, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (11:11)", "body": "I'm with Linda. I don't think Charlotte would have said anything to Lady C. which would have hurt her friend Elizabeth. I think Charlotte owes favors to Rosings, but is not exactly enamored of its chief inhabitant. My guess as to the culprit: Mr. Collins by way of the Lucases in Hertfordshire."}, {"response": 50, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (12:08)", "body": "Ok you all win...I still want to think about the possibility of Georgiana having a relationship with her brother that may have included confidences...and I think that Georgiana really liked Lizzie...and if she had visited (aunt) Catherine....she just might have stood up for them both and would want Lady Catherine to begin looking elsewhere for a husband for her daughter. Could have...might have...probably didn't...but fun to imagine!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (14:27)", "body": "Linda: I agree that if Georgie had visited Lady C., she would NOT have participated in the dissing of Elizabeth. She surely wanted nothing to do with Caroline's trashing of her at Pemberley. Georgiana's close enough with her brother that she totally trusts his judgment. I still have not evolved a strong opinion on just what extent Darcy would take his little sister into his confidence. We know he had discussed Elizabeth with her - that is clear. But was it just to say, \"I met this very charming woman when I was at Netherfield\"; \"I think an acquaintance with such a young woman should be most beneficial\"; \" She plays and sings very well indeed, is tolerably well read, has many interests - a very fine example of womanhood..\"? True, Goergiana had not just arrived on this planet, so she could probably see for herself that Darcy was reacting differently to Elizabeth. Where I can't quite get to, is Darcy sharing his most tender and private feelings with a 16 year old girl, 10 years his junior. He says that Georgiana looks up to him almost as a father. He was 23 and she 11 when they lost their parent, so he probably feels like a father-figure where she is concerned. And also when he does marry Elizabeth, Georgiana is \"alarmed\" at the way Elizabeth talks to him. This, to me, implies there is still this authority boundary that she has never crossed with her bother. I just can't imagine her as his contemporary. Another interesting point regarding Georgiana's thoughts on her brother marrying sick Cousin Anne. If it was generally known that Lady C. intended Darcy for her daughter, of course Gorgiana knew of it. BUT, was is generally known what DARCY'S intentions were? Do you think he ever had any intention of marrying her?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (14:43)", "body": "On second thought, lets take the discussion re: Darcy's intentions to a new topic - 147, so we don't get too far off track here."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Karen", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Linda, Linda. I am sorry I was not here to support you in your Georgiana theory. I know talk abounds about Collins being the culprit but I think he is much to spineless to do the deed (even if he was tattling). From reading the novel, I was never convinced that Collins did it. It makes much more sense to me that either a close friend )or Georgiana) slipped or someone spread it maliciously. Sir Lucas and Mr. Collins suck up to Lady C. so much they would never breach the topic whereas the situation des ribe by Linda seems very plausible. She probably didn't know Darcy and Anne was \"promised\" to one another and why would she, since Darcy, himself, did not consider to obligation one to be held. Georgiana would not have to be explicit either. From what we know about Darcy, Elizabeth is the first woman he has been serious about and women are usually very good at detecting love in men they know. Hang in there Linda!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (13:45)", "body": "Ladies, I must insist that it is Mr. Collins; remember, JA rarely gives her information directly; you must connect the dots yourself. I think that the letter he sends to Mr. Bennet says it all; ''He begins with congratulations on the approaching nuptials of my eldest daughter, of which, it seems, he has been told by some of the good-natured, gossiping Lucases.'' --He hears gossip from the Lucases, then writes the letter; he acts upon the information as if it were fact. ''I shall not sport with your impatience, by reading what he says on that point. What relates to yourself, is as follows.'' `Having thus offered you the sincere congratulations of Mrs. Collins and myself on this happy event, let me now add a short hint on the subject of another; of which we have been advertised by the same authority.' --He tells us here that he hears FROM the Lucases, the following news; 'Your daughter Elizabeth, it is presumed, will not long bear the name of Bennet, after her elder sister has resigned it, and the chosen partner of her fate may be reasonably looked up to as one of the most illustrious personages in this land.' ``Can you possibly guess, Lizzy, who is meant by this?'' `This young gentleman is blessed, in a peculiar way, with every thing the heart of mortal can most desire, -- splendid property, noble kindred, and extensive patronage. Yet in spite of all these temptations, let me warn my cousin Elizabeth, and yourself, of what evils you may incur by a precipitate closure with this gentleman's proposals, which, of course, you will be inclined to take immediate advantage of.' ``Have you any idea, Lizzy, who this gentleman is? But now it comes out.'' `My motive for cautioning you is as follows. We have reason to imagine that his aunt, Lady Catherine de Bourgh, does not look on the match with a friendly eye.' --Reason to image?? The man has never caught a hint in his life; she must have exploded when he took the opportunity to be the first to tell her the news. We know he is the type to do this, and not have a clue to the propriety of his behavior, from his actions at the Netherfield ball; ''I am in the happy position of being able to tell you that your aunt was in perfect health... 8 days ago.'' I also agree that Darcy's relationship with his sister, being by his own admission more like that of a father, would never have suddenly become that of a confidant on his love life!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (13:46)", "body": ""}, {"response": 56, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (14:58)", "body": "Good evidence, Mari."}, {"response": 57, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (15:32)", "body": "Mari -- there is a further quote from Mr Collins' letter which completes your point: \"After mentioning the likelihood of this marriage to her ladyship last night, she immediately, with her usual condescension, expressed what she felt on the occasion\" Expressed what she felt, indeed!! It's a wonder the Collinses were able to hear afterwards!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:33)", "body": "Okay, okay...I pulled out my copy of the dialogue from the movie...no mention of the Lucases in the letter Mr. B refers to but...when I pulled out my copy of Austens P&P...there it was and must relent...it's her story (Austen, I mean). And yes, I know that Darcy wouldn't have poured out everything to Georgiana but when Lizzie said \"I have heard so much about you\" Georgiana responded \"And I about you\". That was interesting to me..also...who else could Darcy confide in? After the evening at Pemberley Dar y knew that Lizzie had won over Georgiana and they had that one major common bond....Now, I know he's a man...of few words...I just thought that if he were going to talk ..at all..to someone...it had to be Georgiana or Bingley....and if he wanted a womans viewpoint...that would narrow the choices. But like I said...with that one phrase re: Lucases...and considering Mr. Collins would do anything to be of service to Lady Catherine...I must agree that is the most likely source of how Lady Catherine came upo her knowledge."}, {"response": 59, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (17:03)", "body": "God, that Collins! What an idiot!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (21:44)", "body": "Sharon, shall we say Clueless?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (23:30)", "body": "Yes, yes -- Mr Collins is clueless and Lady C is a b**** ! She was so incensed about this \"rumored engagement\" that she must have set off immediately. (She even got to Longbourne before Mr Collins' letter -- which he probably wrote right after he got back to his study.) What a pair of co-dependents! :)"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (00:14)", "body": "I think these explanations have been great. But I loath the thought that Mr. Collins through being obsequious or malicious was the culprit. Then again there are those who think that Sir Lucas' inadvertent inference at Netherfield, which gave Jane and Bingley a year of separation, was, though harmless from his prospective, extremely foolish. And JA would like to have such foolishness from such similiar men."}, {"response": 63, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (20:53)", "body": "Mr. Collins's letter to Mr. Bennet on the elopement of Lydia is a most amazing production -- it's difficult to count the number of ways in which Mr. Collins manages to be offensive, apparently without being aware of it, in one medium-sized paragraph. (The novelist Trollope considered Mr. Collins's letters to be a comic masterpiece which \"would move laughter in a low-church archbishop\".) First off, it is not clear that any letter at all from Mr. Collins is called for upon this occasion (cf. Elizabeth: \"Assistance is impossible; condolence, insufferable -- let them triumph over us at a distance\" ); however, a proper letter would begin something along the lines of \"Unfortunately, I could not help hearing about Lydia ...\", would probably be discreetly silent as to the exact source from which the letter-writer heard the news, and would scrupulously avoid any implication that the letter-writer himself has spread the scandal any further. Instead, Mr. Collins tells on the Lucases for spreading the news of the scandal to Hunsford . Then he tells on himself and Charlotte for scandalmongering to each other . And he tells on himself for scandalmongering to the De Bourghs . He then offers a little self-contradictory \"consolation\" : He offers to \"alleviate\" Mr. Bennet's distress, whose cause, on the other hand, \"no time can remove\". He \"comforts\" Mr. Bennet by pointing out that \"The death of your daughter would have been a blessing in comparison of this\". He manages to blame both Lydia as intrinsically bad and the Bennet parents for being too indulgent (and in the process tells on Charlotte for blabbing the intimate details of the Bennet family ). (Thus in a later letter he oxymoronically tells Mr. Bennet that \"You ought certainly to forgive them as a Christian, but never to admit them in your sight, or allow their names to be mentioned in your hearing\" .) He oh-so-delicately informs Mr. Bennet that Lady Catherine thinks that this will ruin the chances of his other daughters marrying, and rejoices that he didn't marry Elizabeth after all."}, {"response": 64, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (11:07)", "body": "But Henry...does this writer tell of who he thinks let the cat out of the bag when it comes to Lady Catherine finding out about the relationship (or pending one) of Lizzy and Darcy? Because of the earlier letter full of gossip re: Lydia's escapades...does that mean we should assume that Charlottes family wrote her with gossip from observations of Darcy visiting with Bingley after and during the engagement? Also....does it make it clear that Mr. Collins letter to Mr. Bennet arrives the same day as Lady C therines visit...as it alludes to in the movie? I still think it is a matter of speculation and some amusing guessing!"}, {"response": 65, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (14:42)", "body": "Linda -- According to the novel, Mr Bennet discusses Mr Collins' letter w/ Lizzy the next morning (after Lady C's visit). The letter first congratulates the Bennets on Jane's engagement, then goes on to discuss the presumed engagement of Lizzy & Darcy \"of which we [Charlotte & Mr Collins] have been advertised by the same authority\" that is, by Charlotte's family from whom they learned about Jane & Bingley. Mr Collins' letter to Mr Bennet about Lydia's elopement is an earlier letter, sent while Mr Bennet is in London trying to find Lydia & Wickham. The letter about the engagements of the eldest Bennet daughters has the reference to Christian forgiveness. If Lady C had heard anything prior to Mr Collins discussing it with her, I doubt not that she would have paid a visit to Elizabeth even sooner! Her Ladyship was never one to delay in the performance of her duty, after all. ;-)"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "In P&P2 Lady Catherine and the letter from Mr. C. arrive on two different days. When Lady Catherine visits Lizzy is in her linen-colored dress that she wore for both proposals, but when her father talks about Mr. C's letter she is wearing the floral with the thin yellow waist band. (It has been a while since I made the costume inventory, so my memory might fail a bit here, but I know they were two different dresses.) Lizzy's Costume List"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (12:32)", "body": "Lady C most likely observed Darcy's attention to Lizzy at Rosings and and his lack of attenion to her own jewel. She then needled the Collins and put two and two together. At this point I don't think Elizabeth knew her own feelings. Or JA simply needed a device to pull the book to its happy ending."}, {"response": 68, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (18:41)", "body": "[Lady C most likely observed Darcy's attention to Lizzy at Rosings ..] Yea, I think she is too busy-body NOT to have noticed Darcy's attention to a 'pretty sort of gel'. Especially since BOTH of her nephews were flocking to Elizabeth."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (02:20)", "body": "HC thank you for the critical analyis of Mr. Collins offensive and ridiculous letter."}, {"response": 70, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (08:25)", "body": "Had to go back and read Henry's 2bits, may I call you Henry? The small town analogy is a good one. remember these folks had nothing to do but gossip. Although, I dont think they would bring up the subject. Remember, he didn't want to offend the old bag by being late. I dont think he would want to be the bearer of bad news. Happy Valentines Day everyone."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "Anne I agree with your line of thinking. If Lady C. brought up the matter, Collins would have responded but for him to drop that bomb... He knows that Lady C. has plans for Darcy and Ann to marry so why get \"shot\" by telling that rumor."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (16:19)", "body": "Karen, did he really know of Lady C.'s plans for Anne and Darcy? It was Wickham who told Lizzie; I'm not sure whether Collins would have known it. And he'd probably delighted to tell Lady C. if he thought he could injure his \"fair cousin Elizabeth\" - the one who had rejected his offer!!! Probably, according to him, she didn't deserve to \"ever receive another offer of marriage\"!!!!;-)"}, {"response": 73, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:28)", "body": "Inko -- I think Collins did know of her Ladyship's grand design for cousinly matrimony. After Darcy and Fitzwilliam left Rosings, the Collins party visited. When Lady C mentions how Darcy seemed to feel reluctant to leave, \"Mr Collins had a compliment, and an allusion to throw in here, which were kindly smiled on by the mother and daughter.\" I take this to mean that he alluded to Darcy's increased attachment for Anne as well as Rosings. As for why Collins would venture to tell Lady C something which would drive her nuts, I think he felt it was his duty. And he tells Mr Bennet in his letter \"After mentioning the likelihood of this marriage to her ladyship last night,\" etc. So maybe he wanted to congratulate Lady C if she already knew, or appear to be well informed (and useful), or who knows what Jane Austen meant. But it appears that Lady C gets the info from the odious Mr Collins."}, {"response": 74, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (20:39)", "body": "I think the bit in Chapter 37 -- \"They were excessively sorry to go!\" etc. etc. -- is meant to show that Lady Catherine does NOT have then any particular idea about Darcy and Elizabeth..."}, {"response": 75, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (20:56)", "body": "[I think the bit in Chapter 37 -- \"They were excessively sorry to go!\" etc. etc. -- is meant to show that Lady Catherine does NOT have then any particular idea about Darcy and Elizabeth...] No, but she would have noticed that he paid attention to her. It is LATER when Mr. Collins tells her of a possible engagement between Darcy and Elizabeth that she would have recalled it and have some concern about some truth to the rumor."}, {"response": 76, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (21:03)", "body": "I keep thinking that who told Lady C. about the engagement maybe isn't important. Kind of like, what did Billy Joe McCallister drop off the Tallahachee Bridge? Something that we can speculate on forever, but will never know for sure. ;-)"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (01:24)", "body": "] what did Billy Joe McCallister drop off the Tallahachee Bridge? this is way OT, but has anyone ever seen the words written down? I'd always heard it as Billy Joe jumped off the Tallahachee Bridge..."}, {"response": 78, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (07:36)", "body": "OT: Billy Joe did jump of the Tallahachee Bridge, but the Billy Joe & a girl (presumably the singer ?) were seen at the bridge the prior week (?) throwing something off the bridge. Now, back on topic: after Lady C heard the rumor about Darcy & Elizabeth, she immediately set off to browbeat Elizabeth and persuade Darcy against it. Do you think she also discussed it with her brother's family? What would Col Fitzwilliam's response have been, do you suppose?"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (08:55)", "body": "Im sure the lady would write the Earl, after all it was her duty (she thinks) to make sure Darcy married well. Col Fitz seemed like a good natured fellow and would be on Darcys side. If the couple had not acted so quickly, there might have been other visits, once the banns are published, or licence bought thats it (I think) Down South, you throw rocks off bridges, before you throw yourself"}, {"response": 80, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (16:26)", "body": "[ Do you think she also discussed it with her brother's family?] Not before she made the trip to Longbourn and London. I don't think she made time to think about anything but squashing it once she got wind of the rumor. But afterward, she probably wrote the Earl."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Karen", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "Sharon, I agree with you. Lady C. is an action oriented person (someone who acts first, thinks later). She'd do her damage and then tell other family members (to never speak to Lizzy)."}, {"response": 82, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (00:26)", "body": "Karen: She'd do her damage and then tell other family members (to never speak to Lizzy). Poor Lady C. Col Fitzwilliam and Miss Darcy will be right there to conteract her opinions on every front."}, {"response": 83, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (08:57)", "body": "Lady Catherine may have instructed Mr Collins to warn his cousin(Mr Bennet) that his daughter must be rebuked and told what was 'her place'. And then remembering how Lizzy had been so outspoken on the matter of younger daughters and their share of the fun.And getting even more alarmed when she recalled how Lizzy had had more than her share of the conversation by 'exercising her arts' on Darcy and Fitzwilliam. She maybe understood that mr Bennet could not control this obstinate girl and realized that the l cturing had to be performed by a true proficient. And off she went...thank God !"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (09:15)", "body": "LOL! Capital, Ann. And really, all things considered, I begin to think it perfectly reasonable."}, {"response": 85, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (11:15)", "body": "Ann, that's a very interesting angle. I never thought that Lad C's ulterior motive would be to have Mr. Bennet dissaude Lizzy, care of Mr. Collins. But considering how she reins in Anne, she might very well have assumed that a parent could completely control his child. EXCEPT in this case!!"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:07)", "body": "Lady Catherine could not have thought that Mr Bennet would want to put a stop to \" A match of the century\" in terms of fortune and prestige? She doesn't know him to be genuinely concerned for his beloved Lizzy, especially in matters of the heart. She might have had every reason to believe him to want to encourage the match."}, {"response": 87, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:50)", "body": "She doesn't know him to be genuinely concerned for his beloved Lizzy, especially in matters of the heart. In fact, quite the opposite. JA has Lady Catherine saying \"Daughters are never of much consequence to a father.\""}, {"response": 88, "author": "Megan", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (01:11)", "body": "Here's my theory: Colonel Fitzwilliam is the informer. I think Darcy confided in him after his proposal. Colonel should have already suspected something going on between them because of Darcy's delaying their leave etc. In P&P2 version we have an extra hint when Lizzy and Colonel meet the first time, and he says he has heard much about her. But the key to my theory is in Darcy's letter to Lizzy where he says : \"...I can appeal more particularly to the testimony of Colonel Fitzwilliam, who from our near relationship and ***constant intimacy***....\". We also know that he waited for her return from her walk, most likely to give 'his testimony'. Darcy must have given him some sort of explanation rather than asking him just to wait for her and answer her questions. After all the Colonel would wonder why all the trouble, why is he telling her about this event that he has tried so hard to keep a secret, etc. I know I would have gotten suspicious. Wouldn't you? The only other possibility is Collins' maid who possibly overheard the conversation between Lizzy and Darcy. By the way, hello everybody! this is my first posting. I hope to introduce myself in a proper manner soon. I have been reading some of your articles for about a month. You all sound very much like people I would want to hang around with. So, I am... Megan"}, {"response": 89, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:08)", "body": "Megan, welcome. We've been having a long discussion about the relationship between Col Fitz and Darcy on another topic \"Col Fitzwilliam in love with Lizzy?\" You might also check out \"The magic 30 minutes\""}, {"response": 90, "author": "joanna", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (08:14)", "body": "I'll step in here, as well. I'm fairly new to all this, having just seen P&P2 when it last aired on A&E. I just received the videos last week and have watched them 3 times already! I'm ashamed to tell anyone of my latest obsession. Col Fitz as the informer is an interesting theory, but I think much hinges on how much he respects Darcy's confidences. It seems he has kept quiet on the Wickham incident."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (09:22)", "body": "I was wondering the other day how Lady Catherine knows that Wickham is an \"infamous eloper\". Infamous, to me at least, implies more than one elopement. Does she (Lady C) know of his attempt to elope Georgiana? Or has W been trying to persuade many young heiresses (Miss King et al) to elope with him?"}, {"response": 92, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (11:47)", "body": "I don't think \"infamous\" necessarily means she's aware of more than one elopement. It's just her saying she knows, and indeed it is well known, that he did elope with Lydia."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "The phrase was infamous elopement, not eloper."}, {"response": 94, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (19:10)", "body": "Resp #87... Joan, I've been away What I meant to say is : since people with less income could always be assumed to be practical in wanting to raise their own fortunes.. Lady Catherine would also assume that Mr Bennet would want to raise his family's worth by a marriage between Lizzy and Darcy. So, by \"having\" (assuming also) Mr Collins write to Mr Bennet she may have been wanting to express her disgust at the union. But this letter could not have had the desired effect (mentioned by Ann2) of \"Mr Bennet rebuking Lizzy\" for not knowing her place. (Im still assuming the materialistic factor). However, if Lady Catherine had known Mr Bennet to be genuinely concerned for his beloved Lizzy, he would have stopped the match rather than encouraged it and have her censured. But Lady Catherine didn't know what a favourite Lizzy was. (or does she??) Someone else mentioned it before and I also believe Mrs Collins happily suspected the attraction to be heightened by the Bingley's engagement, mentioned it to Mr Collins and he blabbed to Lady Catherine wanting to be so much of service to her with his How-dare-his-ungrateful-cousin- raise-her-hopes-such?\" She immediately decided to nip it in the bud and went off. The letter from Mr Collins to Mr Bennet was entirely his own doing.."}, {"response": 95, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (14:15)", "body": "]The letter from Mr. Collins to Mr. Bennet was entirely his own doing. Mr. Collins letter: \"I thought it my duty to give the speediest intelligence of this to my cousin ect.ect.ect. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 138, "subject": "Another Jane Eyre in pipeline", "response_count": 36, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (10:55)", "body": "With Ciaran Hinds as Rochester Yeahhhh"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (11:22)", "body": "(I don't know what happened to the text in my last mail ... here is it again!) I found the following the other day when I was doing my regular \"Austen-surf\". Another Jane Eyre in pipeline - what a feast! I don't believe a bit about the nonsense of CF being typecast if he does another costume-drama hero though. Colin has such an amazing ability to transform himself into whatever roles he plays. Nobody seems to worry about Kenneth Branagh becoming typecast with all those Shakespearan (sp?) roles ... Q: Can you tell me what English manor house was used as Pemberley in A&E's Pride and Prejudice? I think Colin Firth would make a great Mr. Rochester in Jane Eyre. -M.C. Defiance, Ohio. A: Exteriors of Mr. Darcy's family estate were filmed at Lyme Park on the Cheshire-Derbyshire border in southwest England. Interiors were filmed at nearby Sudbury Hall. Firth would run the serious risk of becoming typecast by taking on another role such as Rochester. You can catch the actor later this season in a PBS adaptation of Joseph Conrad's Nostromo. A&E will be giving Jane Eyre its miniseries treatment next season, but Ciaran Hinds, who starred in the feature version of Jane Austen's Persuasion, will play Mr. Rochester. Samantha Morton, who has a featured role in A&E's upcoming Emma, will take the title role in that production."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "Hinds could turn out to be the definitive Rochester. There hasn't been a great one yet, do you think? I like Dalton the best, but a new nice lush production will be heavenly. http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?%22Jane%20Eyre%22%20%281983%29%20%28mini%29 That is the link to the '83 Dalton version on the IMDB. Look at the bottom of the page where it tells about all the other versions, especially very very early ones. I wonder if there was some sort of Jane Eyre kick or revival happening in the early part of the century."}, {"response": 4, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (13:36)", "body": "And to think I almost rented it last night. But I finally rented Enchanted April, was way too tired to watch. Did anyone catch Biography of the year Bill Gates??????"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (14:06)", "body": "Which one did you almost rent Roar? Did not see the bio show, but Joan was giving some play-by-play in chat."}, {"response": 6, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (14:25)", "body": "I have always preferred the Dalton version to the Welles (or the Hurt). I did like George C. Scott as Rochester, however, although I thought Susannah York was wrong for Jane. I look forward to Hinds. (How is it we have never mentioned the actress playing the title role? Hmmm)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (14:44)", "body": "I almost rented JE with Dalton. Everytime I go into the chat room noone is there. where's HC?????"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (14:52)", "body": "I will meet in you there Roar. You having a slow day?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (19:29)", "body": "Did anyone catch Biography of the year Bill Gates?????? Yes - sort-of - with divided attention. :-) It was very well done - viewed him from every imaginable perspective - family members, peers, employees, competitors, financial analysts, etc. . Whatever opinion one may have of him and his ambitions, there is no doubt that he is a very interesting fellow!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "claudine", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (01:04)", "body": "Hinds in a new JE! I'm tremendously excited. Loved Persuasion with Amanda Root! I _am_ partial to the Dalton version; however!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (12:56)", "body": "Watched the Fontaine, Wells version of JE just this weekend on AMC; hadn't seen it in quite some time. I was always a fan of the Dalton, Clark version, but seeing Wells, who is not usually a favorite of mine, made me think that Tim hammed it up a wee bit too much. I much favored the understated delivery of Wells, much to my surprise."}, {"response": 12, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (15:13)", "body": "I also loved the Wells version of JE, Wells melodrama was perfect. I haven't seen the Dalton, Clarke version but plan on renting it soon. I really disliked the version with William Hurt. Although the age difference between the two may be historically correct, every time he touched her it made me uncomfortable. Kept thinking \"get your hand off her you old fart\" Mich"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Lauren", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (20:25)", "body": "I absolutely loved the version with Welles too but I love Ciarin Hinds in Persuasion so this should be quite a treat for me!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "What is is about him, Pamela?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (12:51)", "body": "HI everyone! I love Ciarian Hinds, especially the piercing of the soul speech. Has anyone seen him in the Catherine Cookson melodrama, The Man Who Cried, where once again with Amanda Root?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (13:49)", "body": "And he will be with her again in the BBC thing about Turing."}, {"response": 17, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "Ciaran Hinds -- Another actor w/ \"fine\" eyes. There's such an intensity about him. I've enjoyed watching him in other parts, such as Circle of Friends, Hostages, even The Cook, the Thief, His Wife and Her Lover (a weird movie, IMO)."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (13:52)", "body": "Intensity. Is that it? He is the type who would look you right square in the eye, isn't he?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "alix", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "This would be the what, fourth version of Jane Eyre produced? I don't know, but I always thought that Joan Fontaine looked like a deer caught in headlights henever she looked looked at Wells. Maybe it was just the lighting. Don't get me wrong, I like the movie, I just didn't like Fontaine. Just had to put in my half -cent."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (01:00)", "body": "Saw Hurt version the other night and did not like him as Rochester, too darned nlond ;-) Just kidding but he felt unnatural somehow. The actress playing Jane Charlotte ? was rather well cast I thought. Amanda Root was doing one of the school teachers there. Prefer Welles to this one not having seen Dalton yet.And Ciaran? Yes that could be something I am halfway through The man that cried...don't remember what interrupted me. Amanda had not shown up yet."}, {"response": 21, "author": "eljo", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (04:30)", "body": "Ann, I agree with you about the Hurt version of Jane Eyre. Hurt was compleatly wrong as Mr Rochester and there was just too much missing from the book (among other things the whole story about Jane's cousins). But the money for renting the video was well spent anyway because of the location they had chosen for Thornfield. I spent a wonderful day with some of my dearest friends at Haddon Hall in Derbyshire and really enjoyed seeing it in this movie. Lookimg forward to see the CH version eventually and if i can beat the Dalton version."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (20:29)", "body": "I loved Hurt's Rochester. He was the saving grace of the film."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:26)", "body": "I agree that Hurt was not my favorite Rochester. That distinction actually belongs to George C. Scott, who was wonderful . Such a bummer that that version is not available on video. Timothy Dalton was also very good, though."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "Susan: Timothy Dalton was also very good, though. Speaking of which, the Timothy Dalton version is our next Virtual View set to begin discussion on March 9. To Blockbuster ladies!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "One stray thought: Why, if it is called Jane Eyre , do we identify versions of the films by the man who played Rochester? ;-)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "You think of that Cheryl, intriguing n'este pas? So Hilary, you did not like Jane actress in that version? I think I missed something in the Rochester performance- no not the look- I can survive a movie without that quality..;-) Maybe I must rent it once more if you found it good. I can not find Dalton version. Is it available in Lund(Or is it G\ufffdteborg?) Elisabeth ?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (18:56)", "body": "I just watched the TD version of Jane Eyre, for the first time in at least 9 years. I loved it! They were so good. Both TD and ZC were perfect for their roles. And I must say, though some will say it is sacrilege, TD bares more than a passing resemblence in looks and countenance to our dear CF!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "TD version Not Available!! near here Charlotte Gainsbourg is the daughter of singer-songwriter Serge Gainsbourg and English actress Jane Birkin. She was pretty good as Jane opposite Hurt's Rochester. Her english accent sounded (to me at least) rather on the nose. Here's a great link dedicated to her and the film Belles de jour , with other links to Jane Eyre , her dad and some more goodies : http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/michael/gnsbourg.html"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (14:26)", "body": "Thanks Johanne! I grew quite fond of her Jane Eyre, she had integrity and an interesting face."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (09:48)", "body": "Poor Bernie. We hounded her so mercilessly she felt she had to dash off a stop gap review to keep us happy, even though she is under a pile of work and trying to get out of town for the week. Thank her when she gets back, would you? I promised a review of the recent ITV/A&E production of \"Jane Eyre\", which I saw recently. Unfortunately, I've been very busy, but I'll compromise by writing this mini\u00adreview now and a much fuller one at a later date. It is a two hour adaptation, but I think you'll enjoy it.The story is abridged in places - the Lowood school years are severely condensed and the whole of the stay with St.John Rivers and sister is pruned. The main part of the story remains fairly faithful to the book. I don't think the missing bits detract from the story too much :-) I think both Samantha Morton as Jane and Ciaran Hinds as Rochester played their respective roles superbly. Ciaran Hinds played Rochester with much passion. I think he is convincing as Rochester. My only gripe really is that it was only 2 hours long !! For all die hard Ciaran Hinds fanatics, I would say this is a must see :-) Hope that helps a little. More to follow ..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (14:20)", "body": "Bernie -- I know you won't be able to read this for a while, but thanks very much. I am looking forward to seeing this JE even more. I appreciate your taking the time to keep us up to date! (Hope your workload eases up a bit.)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "sandysearing", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (18:12)", "body": "Bernie...thank-you for the review. I just didn't know how I was going to wait until the fall. I'm anxious to read your more complete review. Only 2 hours...what a disappointment. There must have been other sections just chopped to pieces. Was the gypsy in or out? What about the scene in the garden? What about the end? Was it all globbed together like the Hurt version? OK, now here's the big question... In your opinion, which version is better...Ciaran Hinds or Timothy Dalton? Thanks again!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "Bernie, thanks so much -- it was a great effort not to press you in chat, but please give us more as soon as humanly possible!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (23:44)", "body": "Oh now I feel guilty, for I was one of those pushy interrogators...:-("}, {"response": 35, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (00:17)", "body": "No, Cheryl, surely not ;-)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (00:19)", "body": "But Cheryl, occasionally the whiners have it... austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 139, "subject": "Coming attractions", "response_count": 69, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:23)", "body": "Very good idea, Katy. I've been a bit concerned lately about the proliferation of new topics. Some of them are duplications of existing topics and others are really too single-purpose to really merit a new topic. It gets confusing when you re-enter the conference and are confronted by a huge list of unread items (especially because there's no way of knowing how many unread messages are in each thread--Terry, is there some way of adding this to the \"New\" screen? That way we could go directly to hose that have only 1 or 2 new posts when we're short on time.). Perhaps we could also reorganize the topics under master headings--for instance, a \"P&P\" heading would cover The Adaptation, Light & Bright, Guilty Pleasures, etc., and a Firth heading would cover Drooling, Nostromo . . . and just about everything else . . . not a good example. I'm trying to think of ways of imposing a little order here. Ideas, anyone?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (20:44)", "body": "\"ach thread--Terry, is there some way of adding this to the \"New\" screen? ' Amy could make direct links to these items at the top of the page. Regarding your other thoughts, a new conference called Austentest has just been created, and the committees which had been discussing the reorganization possiblities are now going to continue the discussion in there. Feel free to join Austentest and read what has already been brought up and add any other thoughts that may not have been thought of. Topic 6 would probably be the one of most general interest - at present the others are largely geeky in nature. ;-)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (22:35)", "body": "I attempted an interface to organize topics into groups in the apps conference. Take a look at my menus that I started writing. Create one for this conferences and whatever other conferences you plan to create. I'll answer more specific about paths s etc. in email and in deeper."}, {"response": 4, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (02:00)", "body": "Mobil Masterpiece Theatre, in the Winter-Spring Schedule : Persuasion (repeat), April 6 (one 2-hour presentation) Rebecca (repeat) April 13-20 (one 90 min; one 2-hour presentation) The Buccaneers (repeat) April 27-May11 (one 2-hour presentation) In January, some interesting showing on Showcase : Jan-24 Gabriela, from Dona Flor's novel Jorge Amado with Sonia Braga and Marcello M. (Brazil 1983) Jan-26 The Story of Fausta, dir. Bruno Barreto (Portugal 1988) Jan-27 Black Orpheus, dir. Marcel Camus (France-Brezil 1959) Jan-28 A passage to India (UK 1985)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (11:06)", "body": "Thanks, that is what I need - repeated in one place as well as scattered all over the conference."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (09:29)", "body": ":Rebecca (repeat) April 13-20 (one 90 min; one 2-hour presentation) The new Rebecca stars P&P2's Emilia Fox."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (09:43)", "body": "] The new Rebecca stars P&P2's Emilia Fox. __ Good! So P&P gave her her shot."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (12:05)", "body": "My favourite rumour source in the U.K. tells me that there is a B.B.C. re-make of \"The Mill on the Floss\" in the pipeline. If I get any more info, will let oyu know."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (12:05)", "body": ""}, {"response": 10, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (20:28)", "body": "] The new Rebecca stars P&P2's Emilia Fox. __ Good! So P&P gave her her shot. According to \"The Making Of\" book, the thing that was \"holding her back\" was that her dad was insisting that she finish college first."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (21:45)", "body": "That can be tough, Joan...the lure of the real world is irresistible! ;{"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:12)", "body": "Joan, I think in \"Making of\" it said she was just about to start at Oxford. She was only 19 at the time. Presumably, by now, she might have had a year or two there (she wasn't in P&P so much that she would have had to miss more than a few days, since Oxford only starts late Sept. or early Oct.) and could have filmed Rebecca over last summer's long vacation. She's probably still there. Most degrees at Oxford consist of three years' study. Since she managed to get into Oxford (difficult, nowadays) her ather will probably insist she finish!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (11:13)", "body": "Oh on the Mill of the Floss, Mrs Bennet Alison Steadman is in it. I read it somewhere but cannot remember for the life of me where? How strange. I'm still waiting for The Tenant of Wildfell hall? with Rupert Graves. MY RUPERT GRAVES."}, {"response": 14, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (08:17)", "body": "Rebecca (repeat) April 13-20 (one 90 min; one 2-hour presentation) Since we're talking about REBECCA, here's a great web site I just found on DuMaurier in the UK... http://www.westwind.co.uk/westwind/cornwall/daphne/carlton.html"}, {"response": 15, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (11:07)", "body": "I had no idea Miss Darcy and Mrs.Gardner were mother and daughter. What a small world ths acting thing is."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (14:41)", "body": "Mich: I had no idea Miss Darcy and Mrs.Gardner were mother and daughter. What a small world ths acting thing is. Perhaps we should amend that to say \"What a small world this British acting thing is.\" ;-)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (15:19)", "body": "Cheryl, Good point, it is more with the british than anyone else. Hmmmmm. Mich"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (13:18)", "body": "\" My favourite rumour source in the U.K. tells me that there is a B.B.C. re-make of \"The Mill on the Floss\" in the pipeline. If I get any more info, will let oyu know\". I've already seen it. It's well worth it. Also the BBC has just shown \"The Moonstone\" starring Greg Wise \ufffd that should also be winging its way to the States in the near future :-)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (21:45)", "body": "I found this item on the Reuters wire: More Jane Mania As Studio Buys Austen's Sanditon By Rex Weiner HOLLYWOOD (Variety) - After Emma, Clueless, Persuasion and Sense and Sensibility, the Jane Austen rage continues unabated. Austen's last, unfinished novel, Sanditon, has been optioned for the big screen by Orion Pictures under a deal with the author who completed it 150 years after her death. \"Audiences have shown great interest in Austen's classic tales,\" said Orion senior executive vice-president Steve Stabler. \"We are excited to bring her last novel to life.\" A romantic comedy set among hypochondriacs at Sanditon, a seaside health resort, the novel was not complete at the time of Austen's death in 1817. The manuscript was finished by author Marie Dobbs and published by Houghton Mifflin Co. in 1975."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (01:17)", "body": "Anne3: A romantic comedy set among hypochondriacs at Sanditon, a seaside health resort, the novel was not complete at the time of Austen's death in 1817. The manuscript was finished by author Marie Dobbs and published by Houghton Mifflin Co. in 1975. Has anybody read the \"completed\" version? Is it worth reading? What about the Sanditon fragment itself?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (01:32)", "body": "Anne3: A romantic comedy set among hypochondriacs at Sanditon, a seaside health resort, the novel was not complete at the time of Austen's death in 1817. The manuscript was finished by author Marie Dobbs and published by Houghton Mifflin Co. in 1975. Has anybody read the \"completed\" version? Is it worth reading? What about the Sanditon fragment itself?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (01:32)", "body": "*sigh*"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (01:49)", "body": "]Has anybody read the \"completed\" version? Is it worth reading? I enjoyed it; I read it 10 years ago, so I remember little else about it."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (02:05)", "body": "Gee I'll never get any laundry done."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (09:06)", "body": "I think it is worth reading. Not at all as vexing as Emma Tennant's P&P sequels. And better thinking in my opinion. Of course as you do not know the people in Sanditon before you can't get that awful feeling, that the author does not know the people she is telling about. I do believe Austens own chapters the first ten(?) H.C.(?) that is, are more or less starting the plot uo and then \"what's her name* takes over."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "I read \"Sanditon\" last summer and enjoyed. I believe JA wrote the first ten or eleven chapters, and it continues fairly seamlessly. JA might have done more with the characters had she lived, but it's well worth reading."}, {"response": 27, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (12:45)", "body": "I just read this morning in the Atlanta paper that A&E is to rebroadcast P&P in February...I think it is the 8th of February....we may have lots more company in our \"addicts\" group in just a short while!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "Sanditon, in my opinion, is an absolute hoot, and one of the best pseudo-austens on the market.So, who would you pick to play Charlotte Heywood? Sydney Parker? Arthur Parker? And muddled Sir whatsit Denham?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (19:06)", "body": "I recently read Austen's Minor Works, and while Sanditon was interesting, I'd much rather see Lady Susan. Now THAT would be a movie."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "Is Lady Susan in print,Susan?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (19:40)", "body": "Donna, you can read Lady Susan at HC's Jane Austen Info page, like I did! :-)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (20:15)", "body": "Oh thanks Cheryl,I just read Northanger Abbey,now I have to read Mansfield Park, Lady Susan,The Watsons and Sandition.:-)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (17:35)", "body": "Get Minor Works and you can read a lot of Austen's earlier stuff. Lady Susan is there, as well as the Sanditons and others. I can't recommend LS highly enough!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (08:48)", "body": "The Video release dates for A&E EMMA is March 7,1997 drum role,JN & GP version is..................................................................................................................... APRIL 15,1997"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (07:38)", "body": "I can't wait."}, {"response": 36, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (21:17)", "body": "I just received Catalog # 72 from Jane Austen Books . She mentions a Box Hill Picnic in Hales Corners, Wisconsin on June 21. I do not have an atlas handy - but if Hales Corner's is close to Chicago, I could get there. The catalog mention was very brief - just what I relayed you above. Does anyone know more? Annual event? Sponsors? Cost? Any interest in making it a semi-regional group event? She mentions that if we are lucky enough to get a call from her, it will show up as \"Jane Austen\" on caller id. Now how do we get her to call??"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (22:57)", "body": "Hales Corners is part of the Greater Milwaukee Area, and is located just to the south west of the city, so it is very accessable for Chicagoans."}, {"response": 38, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "Ann: Hales Corners is part of the Greater Milwaukee Area... I was hoping for that. Does it sound like something you would be interested in?"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "Maybe. It's a long way off."}, {"response": 40, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (23:25)", "body": "Ann: Hales Corners is part of the Greater Milwaukee Area... I was hoping for that. Does it sound like something you would be interested in?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (02:08)", "body": "The old VCR alert topic has been archived. We can just use this and the next topic instead, can't we?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (02:41)", "body": "You betcha Amy! March VirtView Schedule: March 9 Timothy Dalton version of Jane Eyre March 23 Cold Comfort Farm (starring Kate Beckinsale of Emma 3) Check the calendar (link on front page) for more details."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (10:24)", "body": "I live in Greenfield, the suburb of Milwaukee between Milwaukee and Hales Corners. There is a fabulous botanical garden in Hlaes Corners; I wonder if this is to be the site of the Box Lunch. I would be very interested. Let's keep up on this as the time draws near."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (03:41)", "body": "I agree with you, Susan...I'd like to see LS adapted...perhaps they have yet to do it because the plotline is so fragmented (epistolary novels - you can't live with 'em, you can't live...sorry!) and largely unbelievable. Reginald DeCourcy would have had to have been lobotomized to be that gullible afer having been for so long respected as an intelligent being."}, {"response": 45, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:41)", "body": "just finished Lady Susan during lunch yesterday (I did do something useful, Kali). What a woman!!!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:45)", "body": "If I ever succumbed to the Dark Side, I would be Lady Susan. She's the Lord Vader of Austenland..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:50)", "body": "I can't help wonder at her total lack of ethical base! Geez"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:52)", "body": "Her mother probably did the same thing to her that she does to Frederica...difference being that Frederica is essentially a goodnatured, gentle soul whose aunt cares for her...she will never succumb to the dark side as her mother Annikan - er, SUSAN! - has...;)"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:09)", "body": "Reginald DeCourcy would have had to have been lobotomized to be that gullible afer having been for so long respected as an intelligent being. Alas, Kali, I have seen several intelligent men become gibbering idiots over a woman they love, sometimes in direct opposition to her deserving it!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (00:37)", "body": "In the Sunday Newspaper Parade Magazine it states that 2000 Acres will be realeased in the US come September 1997!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:22)", "body": "I've met a lot of guys who gibber...but I thought they'd always been that way! ;{"}, {"response": 52, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (12:20)", "body": "A&E will broadcast Northanger Abbey, (1987 romance) starring Peter Firth and Katharine Schlesinger on Friday, March 21 at 4 a.m. Reminders: Persuasion airs on PBS April 6 at 9 p.m. Rebecca on PBS April 13 & 20 at 9 p.m. The Buccaneers on PBS April 27, May 4 & May 11 at 9 p.m."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (12:31)", "body": "Lisa, I love you -- thanks for the tips!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (12:45)", "body": "The Tenant of Wildfell hall? Is this the one with Emily Watson or is it Emma Watson? I just read in the New york Times possible veiwing in USA.Didn't say when."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (13:52)", "body": "Donna, Tenant is by Anne Bronte. If you hear when it's on, please post. I have been waiting to see it."}, {"response": 56, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (21:29)", "body": "Lisa - thanks for the info - esp. Northanger Abby. I started this thread after missing a broadcast of NA!!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (01:10)", "body": "A&E will broadcast Northanger Abbey, (1987 romance) starring Peter Firth and Katharine Schlesinger on Friday, March 21 at 4 a.m. That would be 1 AM Pacific time."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (09:41)", "body": "Correction: Northanger Abbey is on March 20th a Thursday 4:00/1:00 AM PT. and Musicman 11:00/8:00AM PT. I got this from \"Biography\" listing."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (12:57)", "body": "Thank you all for keeping us informed -- it is really appreciated!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "This NA listing may still not be right. I was going to make it a notice on the front page here and double checked it first on the www.aetv.com site. Not there."}, {"response": 61, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:53)", "body": "My TV Guide says NA is on Friday morning March 21st at 4 a.m. (Eastern time). I've checked it repeatedly for the correct time. Isn't 1 a.m. pacific time 4 a.m. eastern time?"}, {"response": 62, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (19:12)", "body": "My TV Guide and the Cable Guide on the Net both state that NA will be on A&E Friday morning March 21st at 1:00AM (Pacific Time). My first reaction was that A&E repeats shows such as this so...I would take a peak at the A&E Home Page. They do not list it at all! Can you believe it?!! P&P was the highest rated show that they ever televised and what do they do? Totally bury NA at a most ungodly hour and not even mention it. Would you not think that they would have wanted to redeem themselves to us afte such a hack job on Emma with such terrible commercial interuptions. To you A&E, I again say \"Badly done, indeed!\" Ahem! please excuse my tyrade :-)"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (01:01)", "body": "VirtView Notice Our next virtual view movie will be Cold Comfort Farm. Discussion will commence next Sunday, March 23. (Now back to your regularly scheduled program)"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (22:51)", "body": "For those wishing to discuss the old BBC JA videos, let's make Northanger Abbey our next one since it will be showing on A&E this week. But shall we save discussion for the following week, since we have the Cold Comfort Farm discussion this Sunday? or do you feel up to doing both?"}, {"response": 65, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (23:17)", "body": "Cheryl, I vote for spreading them out, CCF this week and NA next."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (23:22)", "body": "Cheryl, I don't mind whether they're simultaneous or spread out, but could you put up the page for N.A. by Friday, 28th. That way I can get my 2 cents in before I go away for a week!! Just rented CCF - am looking forward to seeing it. I seemed to miss it in the theatres."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (21:22)", "body": "Found this item while surfing: Miramax is in talks with BBC Films to co-produce a feature adaptation of Jane Austen's Mansfield Park. Maggie Wadey is working on a the screenplay. BTW, this site looks fantastic. It collects info on British film production, and much of the stuff was new to me. Also on this page: The Scottish Arts Council's lottery fund has awarded funds to two in-progress films. Miramax's \"World of Moss,\" and Fine Line Pictures' \"The Win er Guest\" have both received grants in the neighborhood of \ufffd1,000,000.00 each. \"World of Moss\" will be directed by Hugh Hudson and produced by Steve Norris from an adaptation of Sir Denis Forman's memoir of his childhood in Scotland. Shooting is begins on location in Spring 1997. Miramax will pick the films' remaining budget. What this item does not say, but what I have heard from another source, is that Colin Firth is appearing in this movie. There is also mention of a film for which Jeremy ortham is being considered. http://pilot.msu.edu/user/wigodski/beatdown/bcnews.htm"}, {"response": 68, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "Isn't \"The Winter Guest\" the film Alan Rickman directed with Emma Thompson & Phyllida Law (Emma's mum) acting? Seems like that was being filmed last year."}, {"response": 69, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Oct 24, 2000 (08:06)", "body": "Has anyone seen Mansfield Park? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 14, "subject": "Rules of propriety: Regency vs Victorian", "response_count": 80, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:10)", "body": "Lizzy would not have been allowed to walk alone with Darcy in the Victorian period. Am I right or left? Does it follow, then that she also would not have been allowed to be alone with him in the parlour at Hunsford? And what was the difference between Darcy and Lizzy in the parlour at Hunsford, and Marianne and Willoughby alone at the aunt's house? During about what range of years did these rules change? Had JA lived to age 65, would she have seen it? Amy"}, {"response": 2, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:52)", "body": "Amy I don't really remember much detailed discussion from AUSTEN-L, but if there was, then you could try to retrieve it using the archive \"search\" explained on http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austen-l.html I'm not really an expert on this, but even in Jane Austen's day it might have been considered treading slightly near the edge for Darcy to visit the Hunsford parsonage with the SPECIFIC INTENTION of finding Lizzay alone, and spending time with her. Conversely, I don't think it would have been considered all that scandalous even in Victorian tiles for two young people to accidentally find themselves alone together in a room for a few minutes. However, the Victorian era was somewhat stricter about such things as chaperonage, and I think that Bingley's arranging with Mrs. Bennet for Lizzy and Darcy to take a nice LONG walk ALONE would have read oddly in the 1860's, say... Here's what I have in the AUSTEN-L \"Pre-FAQ\" at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/pre-faq.txt : Q: What were some of the proprieties governing young women, and relations between the sexes, in Jane Austen's day. A1: There were several. One basic principle is that a youngish genteel never-married female cannot set up a household of her own, but must always be staying with a member of her family, or with a older or married person approved of by her family, or at a family-approved school, or (if very poor), with a family-approved employer. (Only if her father and mother have both died, an she has \"come of age\" and inherited a substantial amount, can young never-married female set herself up as the head of a household -- and even here she must hire a respectable older lady to be a \"companion\".) If a young woman leaves without her family's approval, this is always very serious (a symptom of a radical break, such as running away to marry a disapproved husband). A2: Similarly, it was not considered quite proper for never-married \"genteel\" young women to travel on public coaches unescorted. This is one reason why General Tilney \"acted neither honourably nor feelingly -- neither as a gentleman nor as a parent\" in dismissing Catherine Morland near the end of Northanger Abbey , and why Fanny Price's stay in Portsmouth is prolonged in Mansfield Park . A3: Young unrelated unmarried members of the opposite sex cannot give personal gifts to each other (though gifts to an entire family are allowed), especially not objects of taste and feeling (as opposed to items of more humble domestic utility). This is why Henry Crawford is not entitled to give a necklace to Fanny Price, and why when Mary Crawford allows herself to be used as the conduit through which the necklace is given, she is committing a violation of etiquette or protocol (and in doing this wit out Fanny Price's knowledge or consent, she is not acting with much discretion or kindness toward Fanny). On the other hand, something such as giving a gift of game (venison etc.) to your beloved's family is always safe. A4: Similarly, a correspondence between two unmarried and marriageable young people of the opposite sex is a sign that the two are engaged. So Elinor Dashwood in Jane Austen's novel Sense and Sensibility , when she sees a letter from Edward Ferrars to Lucy Steele, thinks \"a correspondence between them by letter could subsist only under a positive engagement, could be authorised by nothing else\", and, when she is unsure whether or not Willoughby and Marianne are engaged, says \"If we find they c rrespond, every fear of mine will be removed\". Similarly, Captain Wentworth says to Anne Elliot in Persuasion : \"...if I had then written to you, would you have answered my letter? would you, in short, have renewed the engagement then?\" (i.e., she only would have answered the letter if she had also decided to renew the engagement). And since Mary Crawford and Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park could not legitimately correspond, the correspondence between Fanny Price and Mary Crawford is s A5: It is NOT a rule of propriety in the society of Jane Austen's day that an unmarried unrelated young man and young woman must never be together by themselves. The rules of propriety were actually somewhat more subtle and flexible than this, and even a perfunctory reading of Jane Austen's novels will turn up plenty of counter-examples -- think of Charles Musgrove handing Anne Elliot over to Capt. Wentworth for a walk uptown near the end of Persuasion , or Bingley arranging with Mrs. Bennet for Darcy and Elizabeth to take \"a nice long walk\" alone to Oakham Mount, etc., etc. (strict rules of chaperonage belong more to the Victorian era than to Jane Austen's day). The main thing to be avoided was too long or too frequent meetings between the same woman and man -- just as it was bad etiquette for the same couple to dance too many dances together at a ball (two sets of two dances each was the conventional upper limit). Thus in Northanger Abbey Mr. Allen doesn't mu h \"we had an exceeding good ball last night... Mr. H. bega"}, {"response": 3, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:57)", "body": "Well, that didn't quite work :-( But just follow the link..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Saman", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (22:01)", "body": "I went back over the tapes once when it was mentioned about how improper it was for Darcy to give the letter to Elizabeth at Rosings. The scene where it was apparent that the two of them being alone together was not right was at Lambton Inn. Hannah's concern, I think, arose from more than Lizzie's appearance. Even as she said \"At once\" and went to fetch the Gardiner's she seemed to hesitate at the thought of leaving Darcy alone with Lizzie. Saman"}, {"response": 5, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (23:06)", "body": "But she had already brought him in and left him alone with her when he arrived - that would have been a better time for hesitation motivated by concern for leaving them alone together. I have thought that her hesitation at that time was out of concern for whether Lizzie needed some assistance."}, {"response": 6, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (00:02)", "body": "For two unmarried unrelated young persons of opposite sexes to exchange letters was actually much more serious than being alone in a room together for a few minutes... That's why Darcy is careful to HAND-DELIVER his letter to Elizabeth."}, {"response": 7, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (11:41)", "body": "#1 - Regarding Hanna leaving Lizzie and Darcy alone. Remember she left the door open upon Mr. Darcy's first arrival. When she noticed that Lizzie was very upset did she close the door (for privacy???), at that point is when she hesitated. I assume the presence of a closed door on two unmarried people might be the key here. #2 - Darcy's hand delivered letter. Yes I agree, he never would have been able to send the letter by messenger. But, do you think that someone (maybe a servant) in Kent might have seen this exchange or noticed the letter in Lizzie's room? This may have been where the rumor of their engagement began????"}, {"response": 8, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (16:34)", "body": "Candace, this is a _movie_ , so the details of propriety may not be historically correct -- and in fact it is simply not the case that being thrown together by circumstances alone together in a room for a few minutes would have been a violation of decorum."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (16:56)", "body": "] simply not the case that being thrown together by circumstances alone together in a room for a few minutes would have been a violation of decorum. ____________ You know what I guess I don't get? Being alone with someone -- in person -- to me seems much more dangerous that sending somebody a letter? What is the reasoning, if indeed there is ever any rythme or reason to propriety, behind the stricture against letter writing unless one is engaged. My, what would they think of what we do here? Amy"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (17:37)", "body": "What is the reasoning, if indeed there is ever any rythme or reason to propriety, behind the stricture against letter writing unless one is engaged. Maybe the objection to writing was the documentary evidence resulting. Sweet nothings leave no evidence, but an over-detailed letter could prove embarassing. Now tell me I have a nasty suspicious mind"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (18:13)", "body": "Remember in S&S when Mrs. Jennings wanted to know what Miss Dashwood and Lucy Steel were discussing so privately and that was between two woman. I think it is rude to ask what two people are discussing but it is also so rude to have a dicussion in front of other people. You can't have such \"secretive\" conversation either,I guess,or is just because Mrs. Jennngs felt left out of the conversation. A letter something consider so private{in 18th} that you should be engaged to talk of it.In other words what could a man and a woman have to say if it can't be said in public."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (18:29)", "body": "I think I see what you both mean, Donna and Anna. The idea of privacy was so different in that time it is hard to put yourself there."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (14:59)", "body": "There are other two rules of propriety I don't see being mentioned here: 1. Under no circumstances may a lady call on a gentleman alone unless she is consulting that gentleman on a professinal or business matter. This is why in P&P1 Lizzy's running to Pemberly tearfully after learning Lydia's elopement is not only out of her character but also violates the basic social etiqutette at the time. 2. A lady never dances more than three dances with the same partner. In P&P book, Mrs. B tells Mr. B how Bingley favored Jane and danced twice at the assembly with her. But in p&P2, Mrs. B implies that Bingley \"stood up\" with Jane at least 4 times, which is probably historically inaccurate. Zimei"}, {"response": 14, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (15:20)", "body": "Yes, certainly it's treading a bit near the edge for a young unmarried gentleman OR lady to go anywhere DELIBERATELY INTENDING to find an unrelated member of the opposite sex entirely alone. This is called an \"assignation\". But in the case you mention, wouldn't Miss Bingley or Georgiana have possibly been alone? I think the conventional upper limit is two SETS of two dances each -- if you go down Mr. Bingley's dance card in chapter 3 of Pride and Prejudice , you'll notice that he dances a set of two dances with each lady, and two sets of two with Jane. I think that for a non-engaged couple to dance three or more sets would have been treading near the edge (showing \"particularity\" as Jane Austen called it -- see the link above)."}, {"response": 15, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (15:22)", "body": "Oops -- \"wouldn't Miss Bingley or Georgiana have possibly been THERE?\""}, {"response": 16, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (15:34)", "body": "Amy, I have a wonderful book about Victorian England, as well as the old and new rich in America during that time. It is titled:To Marry an English Lord, Or How Anglomania Really Got started. The author is Gail MacCoil and Carol McD. Wallace. It was published in 1989 by Workman Publishing, New York. ISBN # 0-89480-939-3. It was delightful reading. It also has great pictures. It talks about many of the things you are questioning. If you can't find it, you can E-mail me and you may borrow it. I am sure you are a trustworthy person! I think JA time was more \"liberal\" than Victorian times. (At least after reading this book). By the way, a short little history of how you all got together would be very nice. A little will suffice. Perhaps you could put it in topic#1. I know you welcome new people into this conference, but how about at Pemberly. Do you all prefer the regulars, or can a newbie jump in? Perhaps the rewards of reflection and observation are better... I am very glad I finally jumped in since I have been a lurker for awhile."}, {"response": 17, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (15:41)", "body": "Newbies are also welcome at Pemberly(sic); jump right in if you dare. ;-)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (19:00)", "body": ":wouldn't Miss Bingley or Georgiana have possibly been THERE? HC, I scarcely think Miss Bingley the duckface would be the first person Lizzy seeks advice from on such a sensitive matter. Lizzy has just made Georgiana's acquaintance, besides she is a young girl hasn't come out yet, so it's higly impossible Lizzy would visit Pemberly to see georgianna about Lidia's elopement. Zimei"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (20:24)", "body": "Zimei, especially since Lydia eloped with Wickham - and Lizzie knows about Georgiana's and Wickham's past - I agree it's impossible that Lizzie would have turned to either of the ladies mentioned for advice."}, {"response": 20, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (21:04)", "body": "I wasn't suggesting that she would seek advice from either of them!!!!!!!! I was merely pointing out that the fact that they are very possibly at Pemberley exonerates Elizabeth from the charge that she deliberately went to Pemberley with the intention of finding Darcy alone, so that her visit is not a breach of propriety in that sense... (However the movie does seem to be less true to the character of Lizzy at this point...)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (12:00)", "body": "Re: A4: Correspondence Would it be acceptable for unmarried, marriageable men and women to correspond is the case of a tragedy; e.g. the death of a close relative?? I wonder because in Chapter 48, Mrs. Gardiner was in half-expectation that they would have been followed by a letter from Elizabeth's Derbyshire friend. Lydia's elopement was certainly a tragedy of sorts. Linda"}, {"response": 22, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (12:46)", "body": "Yes, there are quasi-exceptions for \"business\" type letters, especially when it's one off (not a continuing two-way correspondence) -- thus Elinor writing to Edward Ferrars with Col Brandon's offer... But I think when Mrs. Gardiner expects a letter from Darcy to Elizabeth, she's actually expecting a proposal (notice the context in chapter 48 -- Mrs. Gardiner remains in \"perplexity\" about the state of affairs between Elizabeth and Darcy..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (18:04)", "body": "In respect to manners, can anyone enlighten me on what is meant by essentials. There is a passage between Mr. Wickham and Elizabeth where she says\"In essentials, I believe he is very much as he was\". It would be much appreciated."}, {"response": 24, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (19:42)", "body": "That's Lizzy's polite way of telling Wickham \"I know you for what you are now, and I don't believe your lies about Darcy any more\"..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (20:30)", "body": "\"In essentials, I believe he is very much as he was\". In his basic character make up, his values, traits, beliefs, etc. he is the same person that he always was, she has just begun to see these traits unhindered by her prejudice and realize that he was always good, she just wouldn't let herself see it. The point, as HC says, is to let Wickham know that she is no longer swayed by Wickham's tale of woe."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (07:34)", "body": "Thankyou!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (09:03)", "body": "Another example where the propriety rules are cleverly put aside is in Sanditon (dare I mention that I have read this semi-Austen novel and quite enjoyed it too?). Anyway Sidney manages to give a small and very ugly shrine with shells on it to -oh dear me what was her name?- his chosen lady, by first pretending he bought it for his brother, then pretending again that he remembered how this same brother detests this sort of souvenir. And so quite casually he suggests in a letter to his brother that the shrine migth be given to Miss K(?). It is a lovely scene cause neither he nor the lady in question like the shrine, *but* it reminds them of a very special moment when he makes her say she admires it and waits till she simply has to lift her eyes to his. Sigh..."}, {"response": 28, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (10:27)", "body": "Ann2 -- yes, Dobbs/Telscomb has handled this very well in her Sanditon completion; Sidney parker manages to give a gift to Charlotte Heywood completely above board and in the open, because it's something of little monetary value and aesthetically rather hideous, and he manages to convince everybody that it's a kind of prank joke gift, but at the same time, he has also endowed it with some personal meaning between himself and the lady in question... Jane Austen Sequels list"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (21:03)", "body": "I've been trying to respond for days and can't edit out that box with X in it! Will try again"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (21:06)", "body": "Good. I did it. Now I can tell you I've been going through trials and tribulations you would not believe to get on a server that would find you again. Withdrawal was bad until I did :)"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (22:44)", "body": "Welcome home!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (09:19)", "body": "What are the dates assigned to the Regency era?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (15:55)", "body": "The regency era was from 1811-1821, when George III was declared mad and his son was named Prince Regent. When George IV finally inherited the kingdom his regency was over."}, {"response": 34, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (16:16)", "body": "What was the prior period, 1790's, when I believe JA first wrote P&P?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (17:33)", "body": "The 1790's would still have been part of the Georgian era - towards the end of George III's reign (or mental capacity). However, the Georgian era didn't start again when George IV took over in his own right. Since the reigns of Georve IV and William IV (his brother) together only lasted 16 years, they never deserved an \"era\" so it goes Georgian, Regency, Victorian."}, {"response": 36, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (18:40)", "body": "Thanks for clarifying that. Saw a very interesting special on George III on the Discovery Channel -- it seems he attained a kind of nobility in the eyes of England during his last mad days. . ."}, {"response": 37, "author": "MSO", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (22:31)", "body": "I thought I would delurk to mention that in the P&P1 scene in which Lizzy runs to Pemberly after Lydia's elopement, she says to Darcy that she came to get her Aunt and Uncle Gardiner. Why they were there without her I know not."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (23:10)", "body": "] Why they were there without her I know not. ___ Mr fishing? Mrs admiring the fine woods?"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (06:02)", "body": "Yes Amy dear, but the most interesting part is there without her . Why did Lizzy not revisit Pemberley that morning? Was there nothing 'worth coming for'? Did she really stay at home to read her letters. Headstrong girl!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (12:59)", "body": "As someone had mentioned earlier, the whole prospect of Lizzy running into Pemberley pretty much violated the conventions of the day. To quote an updated Emma: \"As if!\""}, {"response": 41, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (19:03)", "body": "]\"...the whole prospect of Lizzy running into Pemberley...\" And a distance of about five miles (Pemberley from Lambton)-- I am impressed! An early long distance runner in the making, I do perceive."}, {"response": 42, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (10:50)", "body": "Ha! Thought as I recall, in P&P0, she was already on the grounds, and merely ran breathless into the house. So any comparisions to Carl Lewis will have to wait!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (16:51)", "body": "Mind if I pose a question? What did Elizabeth call Darcy after their marriage? Did she refer to him as Darcy, Fitzwilliam (ugh), or by a pet name (such as Dear, Darling, etc.) I understand that in the presence of others she would refer to him as Mr. Darcy or, perhaps as Darcy (among family) but she must have called him something else in private. I suggest Darcy at all times, but want to know others' opinions. Margaret"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (22:32)", "body": "We have discussed this several times at length, but we are of course always willing to do it again. The general concensus, if I recall it accurately, was that she would refer to him as: \"Love-Butt\". ;-)"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (23:33)", "body": "\" The general concensus, if I recall it accurately, was that she would refer to him as: \"Love-Butt\". ;-)\" See the Firth/Darcy Drooling Topic for a semi-rational explanation! ;-)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (23:45)", "body": "I simply cannot believe that this wonderful thread has reserfaced!! Cheryl, I was going to Email you, but I will take this opportunity to tell you now. Upon my last viewing of P&P2, I noticed in the credits that someone who worked on the film's last name is Honeybuns. Isn't that great!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (02:48)", "body": "Candace: \" Upon my last viewing of P&P2, I noticed in the credits that someone who worked on the film's last name is Honeybuns. Isn't that great!\" How wonderful! I wonder if there is any way to verify whether or not the person in question does, in fact, have \"honeybuns?\""}, {"response": 48, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (10:33)", "body": "Maybe this was the Craft Service person who was _dispensing_ the honeybuns!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (06:12)", "body": "My, we've certainly gotten away from the notion of propriety, haven't we How about \"Fitzie\"?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (12:42)", "body": "''What did Elizabeth call Darcy after their marriage?'' - Meggin My own personal fantasy has the scene thus..... (Takes place during the conversation the day after they become engaged, on their long ramble). ''My dearest, lovliest Elizabeth.'' he declared softly, looking all the while closely at her, the better to enjoy the flush that always came to her cheeks when he named her thus. She cast her eyes down, and began to speak, but stopped suddenly. He continued to look at her as she hesitated. Finally, she spoke. ''I find that I was about to address as Mr. Darcy, but perhaps you would prefer another form of address...?'' ''Most call me Darcy, of course, and some, friends from school, still call me Fitz, as did my father.'' Here he paused, and then began again, in a tone yet more quiet than even before, ''My mother and sister alone, of all those who know me, have called me William.'' He glanced away, as if the strength of the feelings revealed in his gaze would prompt her to an answer that she might not be prepared to give. She understood the unspoken question, and answered it with a tenderness of heart equal to that which prompted the request. She spoke only the name; '' William'', and smiled as his eyes rose to hers. An answering smile, full of love and tenderness, came to his countenance, and they stood thus bemused for a full minute, before they continued their walk. ....I must leave you now, as I take pleasure in a great many things, and our pizza has arrived."}, {"response": 51, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (17:04)", "body": "I wish I had your gift for creative writing, Mari. It was one of the most difficult of the journalism and literary courses I had to complete in college. Well, done."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Saman", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (17:13)", "body": "Re: response 49 - Henry, no Fitzie, I beg of you!! Fitzie is the nickname of the All Black captain (I'd better explain that, hadn't I?) The All Blacks are New Zealand's rugby team and their captain at the moment is Sean Fitzpatrick. I have no doubts as to his ability as a forward (read big bloke) in the game of rugby, but to be confronted with the image of him when thinking of Darcy is, well, insupportable. I'll forgive you Henry - but only because I didn't wish you a happy birthday ;)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (11:19)", "body": "Re: Response 50 Oooooo, Mari!! That is excessively romantic!!!! Capital! Capital! It must have happened exactly that way. Linda"}, {"response": 54, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (20:12)", "body": "How about a simple but elegant \"Mister\"?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:32)", "body": "Given marrieds' predilection for calling each other Mr Bennet and Mrs Bennet, etc., one supposes it may have ended up Mr. Darcy and Mrs Darcy after all (until more private moments where he may have addressed her as \"my little Boobytrap and she may have replied \"my darling Daggykins\")"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (00:59)", "body": "France, you are sooooo bad! ;-)"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (09:21)", "body": "HC... I rather like Fitzie. I think it is very endearing. Prey tell...\"daggykins\"!! By the way, is anyone going to the JASNA tour of England in June???"}, {"response": 58, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (22:14)", "body": "Leslie: By the way, is anyone going to the JASNA tour of England in June??? No, although I certainly looked at it longingly. I have decided to do the 1-week Jane Austen course at Oxford the end of July, however. This is a trip I have thought about for several years, and this year I shall finally get to it! A full week discussing the six novels, much as we do here now that I think about it, but face to face and in Oxford."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (22:18)", "body": "Kathleen, tell me more! How does one hear about this course at Oxford, and can anyone join?? I'll probably be in England around that time."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (06:46)", "body": "Sounds like heaven. Could I ever manage it, I wonder."}, {"response": 61, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:13)", "body": "That does sound heavenly! But it's rather a short period of time to discuss SIX NOVELS, isn't it?"}, {"response": 62, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:50)", "body": "Oh yes, Amy2, it is far too short a period. But for some of us a lifetime may be too short -- hence my continuing to read this conference, lurk at Austen-L, and reread all the novels. By the way, even if you are merely interested in the programs, this \"course\" that I am taking is part of University Vacations (U.S. Headquarters) International Building 10461 NW 26 St Miami, FL 33172 1-800-792-0100 They will send you a brochure of this years courses (a wide variety around European universities)."}, {"response": 63, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:18)", "body": "I have another question about manners during the regency, and I am sure there is someone in JA land who can answer. I have just finished watching Volume 6 for who knows how many times! Lydia is so rude to Jane when she told her, NO JANE, I take your place, for I am a married woman. What was rank order in the family during this time? The JASNA SC Chapter is having a tea at the Mills House in Charleston SC. We are all going to wear Regency dress etc.. I just can't wait. I know it is not Oxford, but it is th best I can do for the present with these hideous graduate studies that take me away from JA. My husband said as a graduation present that he will send me on a JA trip of England. I hope is true to his word!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:27)", "body": "Graduation present : you lucky gal. And lucky to be wearing a period dress too."}, {"response": 65, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (20:45)", "body": "Leslie, they had a long discussion of the topic of precedence on AUSTEN-L ; there are many possible complicating factors, but the basic rule here is that the daughters of a family take precedence according to seniority (i.e. in order of date of birth), BUT all married daughters take precedence above all unmarried daughters."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (03:16)", "body": "Kathleen!! Thanks ever so much for above information. Heavenly as Amy did put it! This University Vacation thing is all around the world then? Maybe I should try to find a European adress instead of the one you so kindly offered. I would not be able to say much, but then I have heard somewhere that the rewards of observing and reflecting are not bad either... Went through tape 1 last nigth -as I can't use home pc(oh how I miss you all from chatroom)- and Lydia's bad manners are all around, and though she gets some reproaches from Lizzy and Mr Bennet, she is only momentarily corrected. She never seems to do any reflecting, unless it involves officers in one way or the other!!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (07:11)", "body": "Thankyou HC. What would we do without you. I have just bookmarked Austen-L. I will explore it further."}, {"response": 68, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (09:07)", "body": "Re: #66 Ann2 -- the European Headquarters for University Vacations is Brasenose College Oxford, England ON1 4AJ Phone: 01865-277844 There are courses at Florence-Siena, Harvard, Oxford, the Sorbonne, Cambridge, Univ. of Leiden, Univ. of Bologna, Charles Univ. in Prague, and Pontifical Gregorian Univ. in Rome. As I mentioned previously, I have been considering this vacation option (and saving money!) for about 10 years. When I was working in a consulting firm, I did not have enough time (or energy) to do it right. But now that I have extra time off in the summer it just seemed like the perfect vacation. (I shall, of course, spend some additional time in London which is one of my favorite cities.)"}, {"response": 69, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (14:42)", "body": "I am new here, and have enjoyed reading this conference. (My husband tries and actually watched P&P, but he would NEVER read the book. oh well. I beleive Jane Austen once wrote a line in a letter about sitting next to a splendidly half-dressed lady at a dinner party? Apparently, due to the French Revolution ladies dampened down their underclothes, which left their dresses very clingy! And the men wore such tight breeches that they could not sit at dances or even have a pocket sewn inside! Bottom line: when Price Albert died in 1861, THINGS CHANGED! Jane Austen probably wouldn't have seen the Victorian age and its restrictiveness."}, {"response": 70, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (17:01)", "body": "I think the extremes of sheerness and daringness were more or less confined to Paris etc., and didn't have that much of an effect on rural Hampshire gentlewomen (though the fashions from mid 1790's to about 1820 were less confining and cumbersome than later Victorian dress...). The quote you mention is from a letter of January 8th, 1801 : ``Martha and I dined yesterday at Deane to meet the Powletts and Tom Chute, which we did not fail to do. Mrs. Powlett was at once expensively and nakedly dressed; we have had the satisfaction of estimating [the value of] her lace and her muslins; and she said too little to afford us much other amusement.'' Click here for a drawing which makes fun of the Classically-inspired styles when they were just coming into fashion (1797)."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (14:50)", "body": "TMHC Thanks for the drawings! I'm such a novice, I can hardly turn on a computer! But I'm learning...You are right about fashion. But even now, ugly shoes in Paris last month, mean ugly shoes in the USA this month! The studies at Oxford sound wonderful. My elder brother went to one of the Oxford colleges (am I wording this right?) and loved Europe so much he lives there!"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (15:09)", "body": "TMHC I just got back from that WEB page. I'm speechless. My husband's partner can't get their's launched. I bow to the master! I need to study the HTML page so I can put in someone winking, so just use your imagination! I have to go play Legos now!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (18:06)", "body": "My dear HC, Is there anything about JA that you do not know? I think half of my JA bookmarks are from your tidbits! Do you smile too much from all these compliments?? Prey tell..."}, {"response": 74, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (11:09)", "body": "Am I remembering correctly that it was the fashion in Paris for a time for women to actually go topless in evening dress? Or am I having a St. Tropez flashback?"}, {"response": 75, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (11:52)", "body": "Re: 44:71 -- Anne, but fashions may not be as extreme in Peoria as they are in Paris. Re:44:74 -- I don't know if they actually went topless, but I think there was a sub-fashion to have tops of the breasts completely bare."}, {"response": 76, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (16:28)", "body": "I once wrote an awfully big post which I then lost, and just was too lazzy to rewrite, so let me try this once more : In France, around 1795, this period was called the Directoire and in politics Greek democracy was then a model to follow, the First Consul considered Roman democracy as ideal and its how the greek and roman influences inspired the French woman how to dress. Paris was then the capital of fashion. Men's costume had nothing to do with Antiquity. At this time, it was considered very modern for a woman to carry her wardrobe in only one bag. Until 1797, fabrics became slowly but surely lighter and sheerer.. It as then that tule replaced muslin, being the most transparent. In winter, women wore as undergarment something resembling the stockings of today. The breasts were more and more uncovered and wore very high. Madame Tallien, n\ufffde Cabarrus, was Queen of Fashion around 1795. Knowned as Notre-Dame de Thermidor, mistress of Barras (member of the Directoire and secretary to the Municipal Counsel of Paris), she was the center of attention wherever she went. She possessed all the intellectual and physical qualities, and thus had nothing to conceal. So her dress was nothing more than a piece of silk covering her body. In the Fall, she appeared at a ball at the Op\ufffdra de Paris in a sleeve-less silk tunic and no undergarm nts, rings on her toes and sandals on her feet. At the beginning of the XIXth century, appeared Les Incroyables (incredible) and their feminin counterparts Les Merveilleuses (wonderful), the undergrown rebels of the time (equivalent to the punks of 1979). Their way of dressing was more in the line of caricaturing than being well dress. The men would exagerate English fashion to the point of rendering it absurd. The big white cravate, as big as a small cape, wrapped not only the neck but also the chin. They wore the obligatory blue jacket to short in f ont and dragging in the back. During the Consulat (1799-1804), the too light muslin were now insufficient and did not respond to the parisian climate. For this and for political reason, the Emperor Napol\ufffdon forbid all import of Indian muslin, and giving new life to the silk trade of Lyon. Under Napol\ufffdon, warmer fabrics came to fashion, like taffetas, velvet and brocades. The low-kneck dress were not so low anymore and long sleeves were in fashion. With short sleeves dress, gloves would be worn. In day-to-day fashion, the dress would b short enough not to drag anymore. The only exception remains for two dresses, one for a ball and one worned as an official court dress. Around 1810, dresses stopped at the ankle so to see the flat shoes. The waistline went slowly downward. Colors came back in fashion but White was predominant. Napol\ufffdon wanted to continue some of Versailles traditions and so ordered painters David and Isabey to draw ceremonial dresses, thus sumptuous cape embroided with gold and silver, diamond necklace and rare bird feathers, spanish collar in fine lace. The Emreperor could not stand seeing a woman dressed twice in the same apparel and thought fashion a c nsiderably important commercial export, knowing full well that the eyes of Europe, Eastern-Europe and America was upon Paris."}, {"response": 77, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (18:57)", "body": "Thanks, Johanne. This is the first message I have printed out in a long time because I want to read it carefully. You said you studied this stuff?"}, {"response": 78, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "Thanks Johanne. Often I feel like the Bennett sisters are wearing night gowns! There is so much I would enjoy learning, these sites have whetted my appetite! thanks to TMHC, I'll be reading and not posting for a while...!"}, {"response": 79, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (10:53)", "body": "Johanne, thanks! Sounds like Izaac Mizrahi would have loved this period!"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (10:57)", "body": "Oh good. My favorite time of day. I get to watch Amy2 tearing through the topics. She responds quicker almost than I can read. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 140, "subject": "New calendar", "response_count": 30, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (18:06)", "body": "Amy, I like the 'it' , the old P&P logo on calendar head and I LOL when I saw the 'another year' possibility. It feels so safe to know what to do with spare time during the years to come."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (04:11)", "body": "I really like the calendar, thanks Kaff! As the Semi-official coordinator of the VirtViews, I have a couple of suggestions. Although the calendar allows you to enter items on the calendar, please don't! That's something that can get out of hand real fast if we aren't careful! ;-) Use this topic here to discuss any movie that you would like to have as a VirtView and if there is a favorable response, I will add it to the schedule. Amy suggested using the calendar for birthday notices, which is a great idea, much easier to follow than our Birthday topic here (although we should still use it to send birthday greetings) so feel free to enter your birthday on the calendar (but don't enter that \"very special episode of Fraiser\" that you feel we should all see! ;-)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (14:44)", "body": "Cheryl - I agree. I conceived of the calendar as a place where anyone could add their birthday - but only you would be adding virt views. I've added a line under the month that says \"Please add your b-day, but let Cheryl add the virt views\". Also, if you add a post and need to change or delete it, from the monthly view, click on the link for the day of the entry. On that page you will have buttons for \"Modify Item\" and \"Delete Item\"."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (15:35)", "body": "Kaffeine: \"Cheryl - I agree. I conceived of the calendar as a place where anyone could add their birthday - but only you would be adding virt views. I've added a line under the month that says \"Please add your b-day, but let Cheryl add the virt views\". Ah! The POWER!!! Buhwahahahahahaha!!! ;-)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (15:44)", "body": "Cheryl (missed you last night in chat room, had my Coming out Ball) and Amy, I've been compiling a graphic of us posteree and posterettes with ages, place or origin,etc. It really helped me to get to know each + saw Myretta on TV and like putting her face on her name. Which leads me to this : wondering if any would be interested in having a calender type graphic of including a photo and few details on each of us. And would only be able to access it by password, for confidentiality of course. Any one?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (15:47)", "body": "Johanne, are you still around? Shall we meet at Pemberley?? :-)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (15:50)", "body": "And off we go..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (17:26)", "body": "The picture sounds interesting, Johanne. Do it."}, {"response": 9, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (19:49)", "body": "Johanne, I was thinking I'd borrow a digital camera for \"Austen in Boston\". What do you think?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (06:10)", "body": "Myretta, at last, and who's in charge of logistic for this trip? Are you the head huncho? Camera is a wonderful idea, let keep a photographical journal of it and share it. After this first question, I've got tonnes of others to go along..."}, {"response": 11, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (06:14)", "body": "Amy, would love to but am now computer-close-to-illiterate so imagine what I can do with it. Any suggestions. My hubby has a scanner at work, (he's a graphic artist specializing in cartooning) ...."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (06:18)", "body": "] (he's a graphic artist specializing in cartooning) .... ___ Oh-oh. You shouldn'ta oughta told us that."}, {"response": 13, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (07:51)", "body": "And he's a sweetheart, ask and you shall receive, anything for you Amy. For those of you in Boston, he did a cartoon : Guinness (the little dog) for a couple of year, for a local-scene irish bar infoguide at the demand of my Aussie friend now living down under. (what a tale)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (07:52)", "body": "and for you Terry"}, {"response": 15, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:02)", "body": "Will be happy to take care of it Amy, but just let me know what you think, some feedback please? Any details you would like in particular, should Cheryl or you make the official demand to all?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:04)", "body": "How come it written 8:02 when here it's 12:52 (eastern) in the morning? it's usually one hour prior"}, {"response": 17, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (16:28)", "body": "Johanne, Didn't you get my email? We are proposing tea at the Ritz-Carlton on a Sunday and would like to know what dates are available. Please email me at mrobens@hbsp.harvard.edu."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (00:04)", "body": "No, I've never heard from anyone on the Prodigy browser. My only guess it that it has trouble with the text/html tag that the script uses (it must be translating the html as text). I agree with Amy's advice - why pay by the minute when there are so many internet providers that offer unlimited access (and the ability to use Netscape)."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "Boy has this topic veered from its original prupose! ;-)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "] veered from its original prupose variety in pruposes is such an advantage don't you think?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (07:28)", "body": "Help! I tried to add my birthday, Feb. 14, but I goofed up. Birthday appears twice and my name is not there. Cheryl or Kathleen, could you please fix this. Thank you very much!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (13:32)", "body": "Cheryl; could not add my BD; if you could do it, pretty please? December 5th"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (13:50)", "body": "Me, too, Cheryl? I have not worked out the calendar, either. Better still, maybe write something up for the new FAQ and/or incorporate in Ann's toot?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "Done Mari...Amy, when is your birthday? and I'll write up something about how to use the calendar and pass it on to you to put where you think best! ;-)"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (19:00)", "body": "Cheryl. 8/8"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Gotcha! *samooch* :-)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (09:03)", "body": "VIDEO RELEASE DATES: A&E EMMA - MARCH 5,1997 JN & GP - APRIL 15,1997"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (10:40)", "body": "JN & GP - APRIL 15,1997 Grumble, grumble, bi**h, moan, etc...."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "Well, I had planned on doing a VirtView of the Paltrow/Northam Emma in March (which is when I thought it would be released) but now, of course we shall have to postpone that. That means, though, that I have an opening for another VirtView in March. Please e-mail me privately (click on the green \"Cheryl\" above) with movie suggestions and I shall schedule a VirtView from the concensus."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "This was just posted on the Austen-L, and I thought it might be of interest: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:13:35 -0500 From: Garnet Bass Subject: NPR alert The four-part radio series \"Jane Austen and the Courage to Write\" will put up on the NPR satellite in April. If you'd like to encourage your local station manager to download the program for airing, here's the pertinent information. It will be on NPR satellite A67.7S on Monday, April 7, 14, 21, and 28 from 11 a.m. to noon Eastern Time. The program is free to NPR stations and may be broadcast up to two times over the next year. The four parts are: \"Jane Austen and a Style of Her Own\" \"For Better or Worse: Jane Austen and Marriage\" \"Pride and Prejudice: The Legacy of Jane Austen\" \"Jane Austen, Janeites, and the Jane Austen Society of North America\" They were created by Emily Auerbach of the University of Wisconsin-Madison and partially funded by a grant from JASNA. The programs also will be available for purchase in audiocassette form. A study guide is being created to accompany the tapes. Information on those will be announced soon. Garnet Bass, \"Run mad as often as you chuse; but do not faint.\" (Jane Austen) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 141, "subject": "Humor in P&P2 and Other Austen Adaptations...", "response_count": 88, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:39)", "body": "The last part should read,\"...particularly and elegantly humorous.\" Sorry. I'm lame."}, {"response": 2, "author": "geekman", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (09:23)", "body": "In P&P2, I very much enjoy the incidental music played along to scenes with Mr Collins. The bassoon part is so descriptive, and humorous too!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (14:45)", "body": "All the \"old and young biddies\" -hens- characters had feathered hats, ruffly outfits, and/or cackling laughs, clucking voices, etc. in their most irritating scenes (Mrs. Bennet, Aunt Phillips, etc.). This would be ironic humor, I suppose."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (14:48)", "body": "Let's move this to Amy2's \"Light, Bright\" topic when we collapse topics. I like Mrs Bennet's animated hanky."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (16:22)", "body": "\"Animated Hanky\" I like that Amy, cute."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "Hey maybe some of our graphic whizzes could really animate a hanky!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Saman", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "The animated hanky also came in to play at Lambton Inn, when Lizzy was crying in front of Darcy. When I first saw it, I immediately thought of Mrs Bennet and was shocked to think that Lizzy had already some of Mrs B's mannerisms!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (01:11)", "body": "Don't forget Lydia's snorts. She's got no couth, that one!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (01:28)", "body": "Collapse topics...my, what a circus that will be! ;)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:27)", "body": "The whole area of Mr. collins could keep us busy here for weeks. I liked Kitty running away and hiding form Mr. Collins at the time of his \"condolence visit\", and peeking in through the window during the visit. Mr. Collins responding to El's sarcastic \"How shall I bear the dedprivation (of Lady C's company) as though it were meant seriously: \"My poor young cousin...\" El telling Maria that she can pack her trunk any way she likes - \"Lady C will never know\"."}, {"response": 11, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (19:04)", "body": "I love Mr. Collins descending the stairs humming a religious hymn and then hearing Lydia & Kitty laughing hysterically when L. reveals he caught her in a state of undress!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (19:12)", "body": "In Emma, I loved when Mrs Elton (having tea w/ Emma) takes a bite out of a cookie, then puts it back on the tray -- Julie Stevenson (?) does a good job on Mrs E's character. Also in Emma, however, I did not like the slap stick way that Harriet acted when she & Emma called on the poor family w/ soup, etc. In Persuasion, a personal fave is when Anne goes to visit her sister Mary. Mary has been \"sick\" all day but manages to get up and eat several courses!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (19:20)", "body": "In Emma, I loved when Mrs Elton (having tea w/ Emma) takes a bite out of a cookie, then puts it back on the tray -- Julie Stevenson (?) does a good job on Mrs E's character. Also in Emma, however, I did not like the slap stick way that Harriet acted when she & Emma called on the poor family w/ soup, etc. In Persuasion, a personal fave is when Anne goes to visit her sister Mary. Mary has been \"sick\" all day but manages to get up and eat several courses!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (19:46)", "body": "in P&P2; the way that Mrs Bennet keeps on looking at herself in mirros the way Mr Collins has to physically stop himself from gushing on when Lady Catherine speaks again during the first scene in the drawing room at Rosings."}, {"response": 15, "author": "KatherineC", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:57)", "body": "LOL !! I love the scene where Mr. Collins is dancing with Lizzie. When he performs his bow the picture in the background has a horse's rear end right above him... Katherine"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (21:13)", "body": "]a horse's rear end right above him... in fact that scene had equine rumps all over the place. As someone else pointed out long ago another shares the frame with Darcy whilst he was smirking at Lizzy's discomfort at Mr Collins dancing. This may have been merely an unplanned fortuitous result of the pre-existing decor, but I like it very well indeed. I too found Mrs Elton in Emma2 funny; I also like the aside after the George Knightleys' wedding when she says \"very little satin\" (paraphase?)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (21:48)", "body": "Favorite humorous scenes from P&P2: ---when Georgiana tosses a nosegay into Elizabeth's bosom when Elizabeth and Darcy are leaving the church. (I assume that this was not intentional, but her countenance bears an expression of such wicked glee!) ---when Bingley is shown riding down a lane on his way to the Bennet's to propose--the music seems designed to make this a comic moment (along with his bouncing ride) ---Lydia and Kitty plotting an early morning visit to town in order to hopefully catch Denny undressed"}, {"response": 18, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:09)", "body": "Very likely only some of these were intentional, but I was amused by: *Mary's shoveling in and chewing a dessert item at the ball, in full view behind dancers; *the bees attacking Maria as she & her father were viewing Collins' prized hives and garden; *Caroline's being ignored (or unable to rouse a remark from) by Mr. Hurst when she commented to him about all the Bennets having come; *the two times Charles's \"I think\" was rudely interrupted by his \"polite\" relatives; *almost everything Collins did- the hand to the lips to halt his speech near Lady C., and especially the first meal with the Bennets when Mr. Bennet jested about his talent with complimenting ladies (extemp or prewritten)- I loved the way dad and Lizzie passed each other looks and Collins played the straight man!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:57)", "body": "I like the way the messenger, who comes to Longbourne with the message that Lydia has been found, remounts his horse. I always think that the actor wanted to make his mark and did it deliberately to gain attention."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:28)", "body": "Do you think Ann that CF ever tried to do that? I would have like to see him try. Like \"Berringer\" in The Big Chill."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:32)", "body": "Margaret: \"---Lydia and Kitty plotting an early morning visit to town in order to hopefully catch Denny undressed\" mmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!! ;-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:35)", "body": "Margaret: \"---Lydia and Kitty plotting an early morning visit to town in order to hopefully catch Denny undressed\" mmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!! ;-)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:36)", "body": "I swear, I did not hit that button twice! Most vexing! I am quite put out! :-("}, {"response": 24, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (04:15)", "body": "Cheryl: :::) Being an Emma person, I must say I like the scene in which Emma and Jane do their thing on the pianoforte...Frank's chiming in is amusing, but the best part is when Emma, peering over at Mr. Knightley to gauge his reaction to Jane's performance, is caught by him doing the same thing to her...the smirk on JN's face is priceless, as is Paltrow's instinctual gaze-break and attempted nonchalance..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "geekman", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (08:20)", "body": "When Paltrow's Emma is in on her way to town and her chaise's wheel gets stuck among the river rocks, Frank Churchill remarks: \"Oh, you'll just have to live here then, Goodbye!\" And of course JN's Mr Knightley's line: \"Try not to kill my dogs!\""}, {"response": 26, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (08:40)", "body": "RE funny lines from Emma adaptation -- and neither was in the book. And both were in the promo. Something about that bugged me. Like when a nonaddicted friend recently said her fave part of Persuasion was Capt Wentworth's public request for Anne's hand. Why should this be. I don't understand why it bugs me. It's like, alright, changing things for adaptations is okay if it is in the spirit of JA --- but don't anybody dare like that material above all. You know?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "jane", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (11:05)", "body": "Amy, YIKES! That public asking for Ann's hand is a very jarring note for me in a movie that I otherwise think is absolutely wonderful. Jane"}, {"response": 28, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (11:26)", "body": "Amy, I have never understood that scene. If they had to make it public I wish at least they had allowed us to see the reaction of more people. Then it would have made more sence. Mich"}, {"response": 29, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (12:19)", "body": "Amy: I don't understand why it bugs me. I think what bugs me about this is that people are accepting the adaption as the work of Jane Austen. A completely erroneous interpretation. I want always want to see the adaptation interpreted in light of the original."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "]the adaption as the work of Jane Austen. A completely erroneous interpretation. shades of the deplorable M!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "MSK", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "Despite, the asking for the hand, I think that Persuasion was probably more true to the novel than most of the other adaptations. I loved it. A funny scene (which is from the book) is when everyone confides to Anne their complaints about each other (Mary's complains about her in-laws, her in-laws complain about here...). In P&P2, I find ample source of humour in Lady Catherine's dialog. As in \"it seems to me you have a pretty little sort of wilderness...\" Blah, I can't remember exactly. Also in Mrs. Phillips, after Lydia elopes and she's explaining Wickham's seductions, intrigues, etc."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "\"The whole area of Mr. collins could keep us busy here for weeks.\" Oh, indeed. I love the way he sidles up to the piano at the Netherfield ball, only to be forestalled (mercifully) by Louisa Hurst. In Persuasion2, I love the sequence in which Anne is visiting the Musgroves and has to put up with each member of the family complaining, one after the other, about how much they have to suffer from all the others. And in S&S2, of course, the scene where Margaret breaks the awkward silence surrounding Edward's sudden reappearance (they think he's married Lucy) by remarking on the weather. No, that wasn't in the book. But right after that, when Elinor bursts into tears--that's funny, too. It's not funny in the book but it is in the movie, I think because we all share her relief and joy."}, {"response": 33, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "The ending of Persuasion: Maybe the announcement at thge party was to give Sir Walter an opportunity to show his ass in front of all his \"friends\" with his comment: \"Anne??. Whatever for??\" Remember, in the book, his 'public manners' were usually perfect. I agree that we should have seen the reactions of more of the characters to justify this 'ensemble' scene."}, {"response": 34, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "The ending of Persuasion: Maybe the announcement at thge party was to give Sir Walter an opportunity to show his ass in front of all his \"friends\" with his comment: \"Anne??. Whatever for??\" Remember, in the book, his 'public manners' were usually perfect. I agree that we should have seen the reactions of more of the characters to justify this 'ensemble' scene."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:28)", "body": "\"the way Mr Collins has to physically stop himself from gushing on when Lady Catherine speaks again during the first scene in the drawing room at Rosings.\" - This hand to the mouth has become standard in our house - can you imagine trying to tick off your kid and they do that to you????! cracks me up every time. \" changing things for adaptations is okay if it is in the spirit of JA --- but don't anybody dare like that material above all.' Exactly."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:28)", "body": ""}, {"response": 37, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:33)", "body": "] - This hand to the mouth has become standard in our house - ___ We do that too, Hil! We should think of a good name for it. I've been calling it the \"Shushing Himself\" gesture, but there must be something better, funnier."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:26)", "body": "lip-finger?"}, {"response": 39, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (05:03)", "body": "Does Mr Collins make a symbolic gesture of sucking his thumb at these times? ;-) Oh the Psychological ramifications of gestures in P&P2! Debaucheries, seductions, intrigues..."}, {"response": 40, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (07:28)", "body": "Ian, you may be right about the thumbsucking. (Shall have to watch again.) I wondered if his thumb were ever farther up- at nose level- so it could be an even subtler Shakespearean flippant response to Lady C.'s cutting him off! (And all the while he seems so nice and sycophantic!) ;-)"}, {"response": 41, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (08:55)", "body": "I agree about being annoyed by the Wentworth announcement scene -- I really felt the movie Persuasion fell apart at the end, with that scene, and introducing stuff from the inferior cancelled chapter, and a bogus sub-plot about Mr. Elliot being after Sir Walter's money (what money?), and not even getting the concert scene right (benches, not chairs)... It's a pity they felt they had to spice up the ending with some bogus melodrama... I will freely admit that they captured the spirit of Mary Musgrove, however ;-)"}, {"response": 42, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (16:04)", "body": "I'm with all of you in my cringing at the penultimate scene in PERSUASION. It just so violates the spirit of Austen that I couldn't believe it. And I thought the rest of the film tried to be pretty darned faithful to the period too. Oh well."}, {"response": 43, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (18:45)", "body": "Actually I did not cringe over the end. It was 'un-Asuten' only in that Austen would have had each character deal with this burst of knowledge in their separate rooms and ways. She always had her ensemble ending - she just did not collect all her characters together in one room for it. I rather liked this announcement at the card party. I wanted Anne to have that single moment of astonish everyone at the same time."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (18:49)", "body": "Katy, I have to admit I liked the idea of Anne getting her moment too. But I still can't come to terms with JA's ending being so altered. It just doesn't seem right. Otherwise I love the movie too, prefer it to S&S."}, {"response": 45, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (19:28)", "body": "But Katy, WHY would Capt. Wentworth have had any motivation to make a public scene over announcing Anne's engagment???? All he could do in elevating Anne's standing (inside and outside her family) he would do simply by becoming engaged to her and marrying her; it was not necessary or desirable for him to make a fool of himself in this way..."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (01:53)", "body": "The theatre trailer for Emma had some deliberately midleading elements, if I remember correctly...aside from the lines/scenes that weren't in the book..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (10:46)", "body": "Maybe this is not the best place to post this item - but none of the threads seemed very close and this is the most recent 'near-fit'. We have been discussing duelling on austen-l recently and Dorothy Willis posted this interesting note about Darcy's description of the near-elopment between Georgiana and Mr. Wickham: Another note about duelling: I had always supposed that Mr. Darcy's words, \"I wrote to Mr. Wickham, who left the place in consequence.\" meant that he had sent him a challenge and Wickham had been a coward and not answered it. I can't quote sources, but in several novels I've read that was what was meant by a man \"writing to\" another under such circumstances. Dorothy Willis Redding, CA"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (19:16)", "body": "Amy, I agree we should think of a funnier name, but I haven't come up with one yet! 'Lip-finger' doesn't seem quite right, Anna. I shall work on it!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "donr", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "Scenes in P&P2 which always cause me to laugh out loud: 1) The secene after the Meryton Assembly where Lizzy assures her mother....\"I promise you never to dance with him (i.e. Mr Darcy)\" Not only will she dance with him, but will end up"}, {"response": 50, "author": "donr", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (20:21)", "body": "as his wife 2) The piano scene at Rosings where Lizzy puts Darcy's feet to the fire by her bringing up his \"shocking\" behavior at the Meryton Assembly. Both of these scenes are so funny to some one who has seen them many times because we know the outcome will be marriage and a happy life ever after."}, {"response": 51, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (23:35)", "body": "re 138:45 WHY would Capt. Wentworth have had any motivation to make a public scene By his reaction to Lady Russel (and seen through the director's eyes), I would dare say : sheer resentment and defiance."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (00:19)", "body": "Hey, this is cinema...the people who made the movie probably thought it would make for a more satisfying scene..."}, {"response": 53, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (08:11)", "body": "Yep, it's cinema all right -- stoopid cinema! (Excuse my curmudgeonliness on this topic, but the scene really makes no sense...)"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (10:11)", "body": "Lady Russsell wasn't at the evening party, anyhow. I think they thought they needed a \"surprise\" type ending. I didn't like it either,but I didn't think that the Capt. made a fool of himself.He is generally a tell-it-like-it-is kind of guy.It wasn't really out of character. Yes there wasn't any money but there was property and a title. I am still a bit confused by young Mr. Elliot's ploy to stop Mr. Elliot from marring anyone including Mr. Clay"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (10:34)", "body": "] I didn't like it either,but I didn't think that the Capt. made a fool of himself. __ I didn't like that they changed the story for the movie, but I did like the moment on its own. I would like to think that the Captain's soul motivation was to please Anne by showing he was proud to make the announcement public. (Kind of the opposite of being ashamed of her?)"}, {"response": 56, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (13:16)", "body": "Amy, I also liked Persuasion much better than Emma Thompson's S&S. To me, the latter was a bloated star-driven vehicle that didn't do much justice to Austen. Sorry to all the fans out there."}, {"response": 57, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "I didn't really mind that the filmmakers sort of disassembled various parts of Sense and Sensibility and reassembled them in different ways for the movie, because Sense and Sensibility was Jane Austen's first published novel, and it shows in some ways. I basically knew nothing about the \"stars\" of the movie before I saw it, so my opinion wasn't influenced in that way..."}, {"response": 58, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (12:53)", "body": "That film just did nothing for me -- I'm not sure why. To me, it was all about showcasing Emma Thompson & how wonderful she was. Re: Humor in Austen -- one of my favorites -- in NORTHANGER ABBEY, when the heroine is expecting to find some romantic icon in the bureau drawer, and comes up with an old laundry list!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (14:33)", "body": "My favorite humorous scenes: -in P&P2-any scene with Alison Steadman. Most notably, the bedridden Mr Bennet's wide-eyed shock at Mr Wickam's dealings(Oh, Sister, Oh Sister stop)and upon learning of Lydia's elopement-Mr. Bennett are we to be murdered in are beds? WE are all ruined! I also loved the way she flew down the hall, curlpapers and all, -He is here Jane, he is here. Hill! Five more minutes will do the trick. I konw none of these scenes are in the novel but Alison Steadman gleefully made the most of the additions. -in Emma, I loved the scene at the Westons' Christmas party when Mr Elton sits between Knightley and Emma. The look on JN's face when Mr E promises to look after his dear sister-in-law is wonderful!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "norma", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (15:02)", "body": "I just read Katy Kendall's comment re Darcy's comment in his letter about \"writing to Wickham\" was really a challenge to a duel. I have never read that interpretation before and have not seen it in any of the critical essays that I have read. Anybody have more information on this? What kind of a duel would it have been at that time--swords? No wonder Darcy is practicing fencing in the movie."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (00:33)", "body": "According to the folks on the Austen-L, the duel would have been with inaccurate pistols, thus decreasing the likelihood of injury. It was also illegal, and if someone had been killed, the survivor would face a charge of manslaughter or murder."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "Speaking of dueling, and Hugh Grant playing the same role over and over; has anyone seen Impromptu, where he played the role of Chopin, and very well, indeed? This ends with a botched pistol duel."}, {"response": 63, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (13:32)", "body": "I loved Impromptu. Anybody see the BBC series about Sands? What a character she was herself!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "Sands: Only writer I've ever read a biography about but never read the work."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (13:49)", "body": "I've seen Impromptu, Mari. Amusing movie, offbeat, funny. Judy Davis was terrific as Georges Sand (she's terrific in everything). If Hugh Grant is going to do his stammering, head-hanging number, he should at least do it with a Polish accent and breeches. Interesting cast--Emma Thompson and Mandy Pantinkin were in it too."}, {"response": 66, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:02)", "body": "Well, he was not performing one of his cutsy roles as Meredith Potter in An Awfully Big Adventure . That was one comedy that did'nt make me laugh. On the other hand Alan Rickman portrayal was down right touching too say the least."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:10)", "body": "Sands: Only writer I've ever read a biography about but never read the work. -Amy Good Grief Amy! You have another secret twin! I read her bio during a two year stretch where I only read bios (mostly of non-writing personages), and never went back to read any of her own work. Now, where did I put that reading list.... Anne3 - loved Judy Davis; have you seen in her anything else you can recommend? I agree wholeheartedly with the 'prescription' for Mr. Grant's future performances; perhaps we should fire off a memo to his agent:)"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "You're right, Johanne--An Awfully Big Adventure showed that Grant can really act when he wants to. But his choice of roles in recent years indicates that he'd rather present a certain unvarying persona to the audience again and again--charming, sexy, bumbling. It's too bad that he'd rather be a celebrity than an actor."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "Mari--try to find The Ref with Davis and Kevin Spacey. It's a comedy about an escaped convict who holds a married couple hostage in their home and is driven crazy by their constant bickering. Hilarious! And Woody Allen's Husbands and Wives --Davis is great playing repressed characters who are forced out of their shell (as she did in Where Angels Fear to Tread ). Have you seen A Passage to India ? Great movie!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:37)", "body": "Georges Sand is great, but very much feminist seldgehammer propaganda type stuff. Impassioned. No subtlety there. Jane Austen makes her look like a dated relic."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (15:33)", "body": "I guess I have always been put off Sands a little by reports that she tended to dash things off -- but she is not the only writer in the history of the world who has done that."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (22:21)", "body": "#69 I, too got a kick out The Ref. I'd say the first 1/2 hour is the funniest; it bogged down some after that. But I laughed so hard in the beginning."}, {"response": 73, "author": "maud", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (22:22)", "body": "Re: Response 67--Mari asks hav e you seen Judy Davis in any othr movies you can recc? I think her best is one of her first--My Brilliant Career. It also stars Sam Neill in one of his best roles. A must-see."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "Maud and gang, thanks for the recommendations. I am also a Sam Neill fan, so I don't know how I missed My Brilliant Career. Amy, Cheryl, are you listening? Sam Neill in drool, if you please. ;)"}, {"response": 75, "author": "Saman", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:56)", "body": "Mari - thank goodness I'm not the only one who'd like to drool over Sam Neill. I can't remember who it was in chat who wouldn't believe I was serious in thinking that he is drool-worthy!"}, {"response": 76, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (18:13)", "body": "Oh, yes indeed. He has that warm, comfortable presence that makes you feel that you could trust him with anything."}, {"response": 77, "author": "maud", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (19:18)", "body": "This could also go in the drool topic, but in response to Saman in R75 writing that someone in the chat room...\"wouldn't believe...he is drool- worthy!\" Did that person see \"Reilly, Ace of Spys\". He was terrific--very attractive IMO and with an attitude that just made him more attractive. Too bad he hasn't had (chosen?) that caliber of material since."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "Sam Neill, huh? Ok.... ;-)"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (04:31)", "body": "There was an interesting article about Georges Sand in the Smithsonian magazine a few months ago...it said that she would sit down and write an entire novel in a vacation period. I don't know how she could stand being in such close proximity with the same piece of work day in, day out, for such a short period of time... Which Sand works have you read, Amy? Which ones did you like best? I read Indiana (supposedly her best) and Marianne. Indiana was interesting, but I wasn't thrilled with Marianne...it was pretty uneventful for such a passionate writer... --- Boy, have we gotten off topic here!"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (13:08)", "body": ""}, {"response": 81, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (15:16)", "body": "re #60 (=/-) and dueling. I would also like to learn a little more about this facet of life in that era. Mrs. Bennett expresses great feat and anxiety over Mr. Bennett 'fighting' Wickham after he and Lydia elope. I have always been puzzled by her references and supposed she meant a pistol duel, but I'm really not sure. Any ideas (broad stretch to humor in P&P2, sorry..)"}, {"response": 82, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (15:17)", "body": "Oops! Make that 'fear' and anxiety."}, {"response": 83, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (02:51)", "body": "Moved from the related JA wit topic, now archived. I suppose this topic could be about wit in the adaptations and the novels. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 87 of 192 [austen]: Light, Bright Sparkling -- Wit In P &P Response 94 of 97: Candace (candace) * Sat, Feb 1, 1997 (03:12) * 5 lines I just finally got around to reading Mansfield Park, and on the very first page is a statement which I found so delightful. It seems to be an answer to our own much loved phase from P&P \"It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife.\" here it is...\"But there certainly are not so many men of large fortune in the world, as there are pretty women to deserve them.\" I just got such a kick out of this, I had to share it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 87 of 192 [austen]: Light, Bright Sparkling -- Wit In P &P Response 95 of 97: Susan Christie (Susan) * Sun, Feb 2, 1997 (01:27) * 1 lines Perfect! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 87 of 192 [austen]: Light, Bright Sparkling -- Wit In P &P Response 96 of 97: ayelet dahan (ayelet) * Mon, Feb 3, 1997 (23:01) * 1 lines Perfectly Harmonic! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 87 of 192 [austen]: Light, Bright Sparkling -- Wit In P &P Response 97 of 97: Kali Pappas (Kali) * Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (07:25) * 3 lines This is not witty per se, but it does represent the wit of the writer: Our first glimpse of Mr. Collins, standing outside the church, seeing off the parisioners. One woman stands there, chatting incessantly to him...Lady Catherine and her entourage, parasol held above her and Anne, approach the door, and Mr. Collins pushes the talkative woman along on her way, to make room for them."}, {"response": 84, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (07:07)", "body": "One of my favorite bits is not really wit either. It is during Mr. Collins' \"The death of your sister...\" speech and Jane places her hand on Lizzy to keep her from go at Mr. Collins."}, {"response": 85, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (19:45)", "body": "I loved the beginning of Emma3 - when Mr. Woodhouse talks of losing hens and Miss Taylor in the same breath. I liked the servants standing near Mrs. Elton to move her little kneeling cushions for her during the strawberry picking scene."}, {"response": 86, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (21:30)", "body": "when Mr. Woodhouse talks of losing hens and Miss Taylor in the same breath. I liked that, too, Katy. BTW, I've been enjoying your posts on Austen-L. I may delurk soon."}, {"response": 87, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (08:55)", "body": "Did anyone notice Mary Bennet's anticipation of Mr Collin's asking her hand for the first 2 dances for the Netherfield ball. She appeared to have been consulting Mr Collins on something when Mrs Bennet remarked that he was also invited by Bingley. Lizzy was sitting there too and obviously the one honoured with Mr Collin's request. Poor Mary, her facial and body expression was priceless."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (15:40)", "body": "Mary looked smitten with Mr. Collins all through the time he spent at Longbourn. I thought she was the only one who approved of him during his first dinner there, then later she asked his advice about the sermons she was reading - then wanting to be asked to dance. Yes, those two would have made a great match!! Each one more pompous and pedantic than the other!! Now there's a subject for a good fiction story - what if Mary had married Mr. Collins. I shudder at the thought!! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 142, "subject": "Exhibition of film costumes", "response_count": 25, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (06:09)", "body": "One of the EMMA outfits was the striped yellow and white cotton dress with short sleeves, that she wears when she get's stuck in that water with her carriage and meats with Frank Churchill for the first time. It has a crispy freshness. Yellow georgette shawl with a fringe. White straw bonnet. Main impression was soft colours and materials - male outfits excluded. but a few woman wore other stuff. Miss CAROLINE BINGLEY was in her thich silk dress, thin stripes of black, burgundy, gold and curry brown. Long sleeves, spencer(=short jacket)without sleevesin patterned silk, matching colours. Some sort of'wings'(hardly appropriate)on her shoulders give it a royal touch.Very handsome dress IMO.(she wears it at the supper when Jane is taken ill + and in the flashback they trick Mr Bingley into abandoning Jane + maybe more). I would like to wear ELINOR DASHWOOD's black-and-whitechecked silk frock with white fischy and black chiffon shawl. Everso beautiful was Fanny Dashwood's evening gown, really dark blue silk covered with golden shots and with golden edgings and tassels. Like the sky one starlit winters nigth. Funny detail: A ridicule of ELIZABET ELLIOT's was made to look like a pineapple, warm yellow and green, matching her yellow velvet spencer. LIZZY had that creamy thin silk dress with long sleeves. Pale mintgreen(Amy!) spencer with short puff sleeves. Straw bonnetw. mintgreen ribbons. (She wore this several times. When she is introduced to Miss Darcy at Lmbton inn, second proposal...dress even first proposal I think, her favourite as I remember from Ann's list)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (08:09)", "body": "Speaking of Ann's list, here it is. It is also at http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wwwboard/costlist.html Lizzy's Costumes, The List Or How Ann Spent Her Time While Looking for a Job I went through P&P2 looking for the different dresses which Lizzy wore, trying to answer the question: which one does she wear the most? The answer is that there are two which she wears nine times, both are florals. One has large pinkish flowers, the other has a gold waist band (this one may just be a print, I can\ufffdt really make out the pattern). There is some uncertainty in my tally. For example, when she wore the same dress two scenes in a row, I would usually count it only once, but at other times when there could have been (or should have been) time passing in between the two scenes, I counted it twice. On one occasion that goes the other way, there is a separation of scenes, when there should not be--all the scenes before Lydia\ufffds wedding should take place on the same day, with Jane and Lizzy talking that night. There are two dresses which seem to be polka-dot (I can\ufffdt really tell on my tape, they may just be a small print) which are hard to tell apart. One has a slightly lighter background wit no trim on top but dark trim on the bottom hem, the other has a slightly darker background with dark trim on top including buttons on the front and no trim on the bottom but with dark wrist ties. Points of interest: Lizzy is wearing the same gown, a gauzy white-on-white stripe, when she first sees Darcy (opening riding scene) and when she first sees the new Darcy at Pemberley. In between these two scenes this dress is not worn at all. She wears the same gown for both of Darcy\ufffds proposals. The polka-dot dresses tend to be worn in the winter, the florals in the spring and autumn and the stripe and criss-cross in the summer. She seems to get a new dress in the summer, the w ite-on-white criss-cross is first seen when Lydia goes off to Brighton. After that she wears it a lot. The List With number of times worn in () and a scene in which it is worn: (8) White-on-white vertical stripe (gauzy)-----Opening scene and meeting at Pemberley (8) Linen colored stripe-----church in the beginning , both of Darcy\ufffds proposals (8) Polka-dot with no trim on top, dark trim on bottom-----Collins\ufffd proposal (3) Polka-dot with dark trim on top, no trim on bottom-----walk to Netherfield (5) Embroidered party dress, white-on-white-----Meryton ball (9) Floral with gold waist band-----gathering flo ers with Jane after Meryton ball (4) White party dress with green front panel-----Lucas Lodge party (9) Large-pink flowered-----Mrs. Bennet\ufffds visit to Netherfield (3 in A&E commercial broadcast; 4 in full dose) Red-----Dinner with Mr. Collins Netherfield Ball gown (6) White-on-white criss-cross-----dinner at Lambton Inn Wedding gown There are six Bonnets : Straw with blue ribbon, Tan all-fabric, Straw with brown fabric in back, Big rust bonnet, Flat rust bonnet (only worn in Kent), Wedding bonnet. There are eight Jackets/Coats : Light-blue jacket, brown patterned jacket, rust jacket, black jacket, Netherfield Ball coat, long blue co t, dark-grey jacket, Wedding coat. Also 2 different night gowns one with a collar, one scoop-necked which is always worn with a filmy robe over the top. Scarves: Long red plaid, long white, very short white, maybe two lace scarves, bedroom scarf. Only one necklace (cross). Jane has at least three: cross, pink bead, and pearl drop. (Can you tell I have a lot of time on my hands!!) Ann 10/28/96"}, {"response": 3, "author": "jane", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (09:35)", "body": "Ann2, What fun you must have had! Any information on whether the exhibition will be traveling around? Jane"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "Oh, I should clarify for our newer friends, Ann2, who saw the exhibit, is in Sweden; Ann, who lives in Minneapolis, made the Lizzy list."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (10:02)", "body": "Ann, it would have been fun to have you with me at the exhibition. Your comments would have been those of a true proficient. exhibition report part 2. If, by any chance, someone would like to know what MR DARCY prefers when he is visiting Sweden, I shall be glad to inform you. Black breeches, black coat, white linen shirt(sigh), white cotton cravatte, black boots with brown upper part (Cheryl, did you hear. I've actually been in the same room as those boots and that shirt . The waistcoat is one of my favourites - for I have several - creamcoloured. The milieau was deligthful, all P&P characters were presented in a salon with a tea-table, mirrors and a fireplace. All the others were placed together in a larger drawingroom. More than once did I sneak back into that salon...I'm afraid the magic will disappear, dare I even wash my hair? But it wexed me, that they had placed Mr Darcy at a distance from the rope. No chance to gently stroke that firm woolen sleeve...I bet they knew what they were doing. The fabric on one sleeve could have turned threadbare from stolen moments of worship. Why Harriet Smith for instance, she was placed close to the barrier. But who would ever wish to touch her? Such a nasty freckled little thing...(sorry Mr Martin) Two more details: The high black hat was placed on a chair behind him. Thank goodness for that, for he had no head to place it on.(They were not dolls you see, just dummies.) I am glad they left faces and eyes(Donna!) to our imagination. And I found out that I'm not all that daggy after all, as I had never observed the jewellery on his clock string(control yourselves Grace and Cheryl !). It resembled a broache all in gold and pearly parts with 3 tiny pendulous pearls set in gold. For evening use I should imagine, so next time at Netherfield ball or Pemberley I'll look for it. While we are at it, I might as well mention that COLONEL BRANDON in handsome red military coat and creamwhite breeches was sort of stuffed in a surprisingly daggy manner. Not sure it was intentional...!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (12:31)", "body": "\"Clock string\" Ann, do you mean the thing that hangs from his waist? I have always believed that such is called a Fob.Which could lead to some bad jokes about fobbing you off, I suppose.\"Clocks\" usually refers to the embroidered bit on people's socks, believe it or not.Very popular about fifty years before Mr Darcy.Yes, I know I am being pedantic here! BTW I am extremely envious of your experience. I don't think I would be able to content myself with just stroking the sleeve...... I think I would have tried to run off with the whole coat!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (13:15)", "body": "Anns & Amy: A big LOL on the \"subtitle\" for your list. Lucky, lucky Swedes! They get all that sunshine in summer, and now this!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (13:18)", "body": "Oh Jane, I'm afraid I know very little, but the next stop was to be our third city (inhabitantwise) Malm\ufffd situated in the south of Sweden, close to Copenhagen and the north of Germany, but I'm sorry still far off from US. Is there not another dress show at Lyme Hall? Bernie, do you know anything? I think two smart Swedish lads were responsible for this one. They had produced one with the clothes from The House of Elliot earlier.Have you seen that one? Lots of lovely clothes in it and rather interesting and entertaining story. Fob (I learnt at university that meant 'free on board'. Jokes possible even there.) Thanks Caroline, I'm in ever great need of training my English and often take the easy way out, instead of consulting my dictionary.Would fob chain be useful for the piece of jewellery at issue?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (14:03)", "body": "Ann2: (Cheryl, did you hear. I've actually been in the same room as those boots and that shirt.) Ann dear, I am extremely jealous! But thank you so much for posting this info, it does me good to know that one of our number has been in close proximity to our beloved's apparel! I shall have to settle for living vicariously through you! *sigh*"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (15:07)", "body": "Yes Cheryl, I think some of my bliss may very likely spread to you;-) Exhibition report 3. As for the rest, we would have done a much better job. It was called \"The World of Jane Austen\" and did that echo hollow? They had just photocopied some family pictures,views, some b&w illustrations (by one Thompson not Brock),some letters and added rather ignorant comments underneath each picture. The letters were some fun to try to read and they were, as you know filled with closely written lines on every available space.And you could learn how they were folded and sealed ; no envelopes. One large patchwork quilt , said to be a privately owned copy of one Jane, Cassandra and Mrs Austen once made.Patches artfully arranged from patterned and plaincoloured fabrics.Has anybody seen the original? Bernie? Is Kali going to visit Chawton? If indeed it is kept there. But this Swedish lady must have got the idea somwhere. They had a few novels for sale and the cd from Northam Emma. That music was played and made the atmosphere among the costumes very agreeable. That's all folks. Excuse the alarming length of this report."}, {"response": 11, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:15)", "body": "Ann2 -- thank you so much for your informative report. Like Cheryl, I shall enjoy it vicariously through you. So Colonel Brandon's outfit was his uniform, huh? I did think Alan Rickman looked very good in it. (He looked good at the Golden Globe awards last night, too -- I really enjoy watching some of these actors who play JA's heroes.)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:17)", "body": "On the old Board one of the ROFLOL moments for me was when someone began to inquire about Darcy's lucky green coat and how many times he wore it in the mini series. Ann responded by saying she was far too busy keeping track of Lizzie's wardrobe to take on the task of inventorying when Darcy wore what and how many times. I have paraphrased her response but it was a classic given the detail in her list and the posts about the green coat. Thanks for reprising Ann's list, it IS most remarkable!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:22)", "body": "Ann2, thanks so much for your report. I loved your comment about the hat and no head to put it on! Poor Darcy - or was the garotting in Nostromo more severe than we thought???;-) I envy you seeing the show. I'll just have to visit Lyme Park when I go back to England next summer and see what they have to offer there. And thanks for reprising Ann's list of Lizzie's wardrobe."}, {"response": 14, "author": "eljo", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (03:10)", "body": "Ann2, thanks a lot for the information about the exhibition. Do you know if they are taking it to G\ufffdteborg after Malm\ufffd as they did with The House of Elliot exhibition. Or do I have to come up with a good reason to tresspass on my friends in Stockholm?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "Are you in Gothenburg Elisabeth? And are you, by any chance Swedish? No, I do not know what happens after Malm\ufffd. But I'll find you the telephon number to the Hallwylska palatset where the exhibit takes place.08/666 44 99 Telefax 08/666 44 95. I take it you saw the Elliot clothes. I missed them. Do you visit this conference often, I can't remember seeing your name. But then if you do not watch closely your name migth well be English."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "Kathleen, I could not agree more on your views on Austen heros, those dear men. And I specially recall C Brandon imploring Elinor. \"I must do something. Give me something useful to do!\" Oh, Inko that you can be the 'mother' of our dear little William and at the same time make such dreadful jokes!Garotting more severe...!LOL And that casual...will just have to visit Lyme Park...You are to be greatly envied by me for one."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (03:03)", "body": "Ann2...did they have Emma's pink dress form the archery scene? ;)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "eljo", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (04:42)", "body": "Ann2, thanks a lot for the phone numbers....I'm certinly going to find out if they are bringing the exhibition to G\ufffdteborg. And yes I do live in G\ufffdteborg and I don't visit this conference often enough.....but I'll try to change that. I'm sorry to say that I haven't yet seen The House of Elliot clothes but I will try to squeeze in a visit to the exhibition this weekend. It would be great to see these clothes to because I really enjoyed The House of Elliot."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:50)", "body": "Has there been any information on whether the costumes are going to tour? Perhaps to the Southeast USA, or even the Northeast USA? It sounds wonderful. To be near Mr. Darcy..."}, {"response": 20, "author": "law", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "MaryC wrote: \"On the old Board one of the ROFLOL moments for me was when someone began to inquire about Darcy's lucky green coat and how many times he wore it in the mini series.\" I missed that discussion but I have to tell you-- I finally persuaded my boyfriend to watch P&P with me. In the scene where Darcy is getting dressed and says to his valet, \"No, the green one,\" I sighed a little and remarked how very sexy Regency dress was-- acknowledging of course that while my boyfriend would never wear a green coat, he would look exceptionally well in blue or black. Anyway, later, when he was trying to figure out what exactly was going to happen next, at one point he said, \"So he *was* going to propose to her when he got dressed all snazzy in his green coat!\" So what do you all think? Is he right? Was Darcy planning to propose again when he went to see Elizabeth at Lambton and found her distraught over Jane's letters about Lydia? Is that why he put on his lucky green coat?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (23:11)", "body": "My vote has always been for no . First, he would have gone to Lambton on the assumption that the Gardiners would be there as well. He had no way of knowing he would find Lizzy alone. Second, he was not confident enough of himself or of her feelings to propose again. He had only seen here three times, always in company, and hadn't seen enough of her to know that her feelings might have changed. In fact, according to Lizzy her feelings, while in turmoil, were not yet changed sufficiently for him to ha e received the answer he wanted. My guess is he would have just payed a normal call or possibly joined them for part of thier outing."}, {"response": 22, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (07:31)", "body": "Ann: My guess is he would have just payed a normal call or possibly joined them for part of their outing. Like a moth to flame -- Darcy just could not stay away from Elizabeth once he knew she was nearby. He wanted to continue to show her that he had changed her behavior, and he wanted to see if her feelings had changed and if so how much. I do not think he was intending to propose, but that he just wanted to be near her."}, {"response": 23, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (08:35)", "body": "I'm with you, he didn't have the intention to do anything particular so soon, just wanted to BE with Her."}, {"response": 24, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (10:16)", "body": "Bingley's and Wickham's blue coats are mentioned in the novel -- see http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/pptopics.html#bluecoat"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (12:16)", "body": "Like a moth to flame -- Darcy just could not stay away from Elizabeth once he knew she was nearby. ...he just wanted to be near her. Well put, Kathleen. ITA. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 143, "subject": "The most happy couple in the whole Austen valley", "response_count": 51, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (01:27)", "body": "I'd have to agree about Emma and Knightly. They do know each other."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (02:59)", "body": "It works, but I don't think Darcy and Lizzy will have too terrible a time of it. She's a classy girl. And he loves her very much."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (08:22)", "body": "The Bingley's because they will always want to make each other happy."}, {"response": 4, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (09:15)", "body": "The Bingleys are so goody-good, they will always look at the bright side of events, good or bad and probably live their whole lives with a constant smile on their faces. As for Darcy, looks like his love for Lizzy goes beyond the consuming of new found passion. He took whatever time he needed and went for it with opened eyes. As for Lizzy she has soul, wit and brains more than enough to fill her new role as Mistress of Pemberley. She brings freshness and livelyness and a new perspective on life to this vast house which Darcy particularly needs. Their relationship looks like it is most equal of most couples in JA's novel. Pray tell what are your thoughts of Catherine Morland and Mr. Tilney?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (09:57)", "body": "Friendliest Couple: Emma and George Quietest Couple: Fanny and Edmund Most Laughs Couple: Catherine and Henry Most Content Couple: Anne and Frederick Most Staid Couple: Elinor and Edward Best Sex Couple: Elizabeth and Fitzwilliam"}, {"response": 6, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (11:48)", "body": "]Best Sex Couple: Elizabeth and Fitzwilliam ROTFLOL, Cheryl your the best"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Dina", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (12:08)", "body": "Johanne, I think you're right. Darcy went in eyes wide open, sure of his choice (and I think he pretty much could have had any choice) and Lizzie is loved and full of confidence. Can you imagine Darcy watching her learn about his life and he learning from her take on it? I think it would be a great marriage - not without controversy, but they have done that before."}, {"response": 8, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (12:16)", "body": "What a boring marriage if there's no (healthty/sound) controversy, and with their sometimes playful/feiry nature some very pleasurable moments would certainly derived HHuuummmmmmm!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (12:47)", "body": "You are so right, Johanne!It's the differences of opinion that keep a marriage going!If Lizzy and Darcy were to be unhappy, it would be because of things out of their control- lack of children,acts of God,and the like.I can see one of them being torn apart by the unhappiness of the other...."}, {"response": 10, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (12:51)", "body": "Let's not forget the couples that have good marriages - Adm. and Mrs. Croft and even the Gardiners."}, {"response": 11, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (15:29)", "body": "Tough question, all seem perfect for each other but each has a very different realationship. I can't imagine any breaking up. I think The Wentworth's They balance each other the best. All of these couples have a great love for each other but Anne & Fredrick seem to be connected in a deeper way. Call it soul mates or kindred spirits, I think they will be completely devoted to one another."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (17:45)", "body": "I agree with Cheryl's definitions, but I think overall the Darcy-Lizzie marriage will be the best--most fun, deepest feelings, etc. I see Anne-Frederick Wentworth as happy and adventurous as the Crofts unless there are children--could she have children on board a man-'o-war?? Emma-George will be friendly, but I see the age difference as keeping them a little as student to teacher. Elinor-Edward Ferrars rather dull and staid; Marianne-Brandon, probably content. Can't decide about Katherine-Henry - it's been too long since I read N.A. Will reread it one of these days, when I have time."}, {"response": 13, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (20:26)", "body": "I have been reading JA since I was a teen - I have read every novel over and over to the point of memorization. I can tell you with infinite authority that ALL of JA's heroines had HAPPY marriages. This subject is bordering on the heresy. For what do JA's people live except to convince me that total happiness is the reward for total correctness!!??!! Austentaciously Yours, Katy"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (20:58)", "body": "I can see Henry Tilney becoming very frustrated with Catherine from time to time. She's no fool, but she is still very young."}, {"response": 15, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (21:45)", "body": "]]Best Sex Couple: Elizabeth and Fitzwilliam ROTFLOL, Cheryl your the best Yes, Johanne and Cheryl, quite true! (The problem I find is to write about them and turn the heat down once they're on their honeymoon! I've erased several versions already as being too passionate but with a pair like Firth and Ehl in memory, it's hard to remain in neutral gear...)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (22:37)", "body": "Ah Wendy, the smallest sign in which direction to turn our imagination in motion will do the trick, I'm sure"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Karen", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (16:00)", "body": "Cheryl as usual you have me chuckling with glee. As far as couples my list is a virtual duplicate of Inko's (Lizzy/Darcy first with Anne/Fredrick a close second and everyone else)."}, {"response": 18, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "Most definitely, Lizzy and Darcy are to be the happiest together. Their affection has already been put to the test in a major way, and they not only survived that, but came out of it all the more secure in it. His feelings for her had gone beyond the all-consuming passion for her when he put the Lydia/Wickham thing to rights - he has thinking of HER happiness at a great sacrifice to himself. I think they can have confidence that whatever else they may face, they are each willing and capable of reason and compromise. It is possible that Darcy may very well have moments when he recalls prior 'reservations' in the match, but Elizabeth has an understanding of and doesn't blame him for many of them regarding her family. So I don't not see this as causing any great friction between them. (Personally, I think he has gotten over himself, though.) Both Darcy and Elizabeth have clearly valued growt , and I think this would continue to be true. Marriage is a tough gig. These two of all Austen's couples can approach is in honesty and hope."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (08:06)", "body": "Marriage is a tough gig. But would you not liefer to be overturned by your huband than driven safely by someone else?:-}(does anyone have a graphic for Austenjokes? )"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (09:23)", "body": "re:graphic for Austen jokes I suppose the emoticon would be a wan wry smile. I don't know if we have one like that."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (21:58)", "body": "I see I'm outnumbered by all the E & D fans, but have to make one last point. Emma and No-No-I-can't-call-him-George Mr. Knightley have known each other all their lives and their friends and family are all the same. I think that makes for a pretty happy arrangement. And can you imagine Darcy agreeing to Lizzie's father actually living with them? And for those of you who think Emma would tire of the teacher/student bent to their relationship, all I can think of is their wedding night, and all the interesting things Mr. Knightley could teach Emma which have nothing to do with the improvement of her character! Hubba Hubba indeed! And as a more serious aside, one of the reasons Emma told herself she didn't want Mr. Knightley to marry anyone because it would mean that her nephew would then not inherit Donwell, doesn't it follow that a son of Emma's and Mr. K's would also disinherit their nephew?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "Susan, you are rivaling the Dagimeister tonight!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (23:42)", "body": "] one of the reasons Emma told herself she didn't want Mr. Knightley to marry anyone because it would mean that her nephew would then not inherit Donwell, but she was lying to herself; that wasn't the reason at all..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (03:33)", "body": "\"all the interesting things Mr. Knightley could teach Emma which have nothing to do with the improvement of her character! Hubba Hubba indeed!\" [crooked smile] --- Of course, Anna is right...anyway, The Knightleys would have TWO houses to play with...Donwell could go to the nephew, and Hartfield could go to their own son...or whatever..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (11:36)", "body": "Kali -- yes, and Isabella actually has as much claim on Hartfield as Emma does..."}, {"response": 26, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "I'm kind of troubled by the 16 year age different between Emma and Mr. K. I do think their relationship will be almost Higgins and Eliza-ish. I cast my vote for Happiest to Lizzy and Mr. D.! They've come through the fire together; he has actively sought to change himself for her; she too has come to an important self-realization about her prejudices & family which I think will eliminate friction between them in the future. I think Lizzy is perfectly equal to the task of being a charming mistress of Pe berley. And I think that Darcy's severity and serious mien will lessen under her improvement!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:09)", "body": "'..he has actively sought to change himself for her..' I know we have all been saying this, but I am growing increasingly dissatisfied with this word - 'change'. This implies too much that innately, he was some different person before. But he wasn't, really. He was just totally tuned-out to how his manner was being percieved. There was a very defined social structure of which he was very conscious, his parents taught him to be selfish and overbearing, and he probably believed his manner to merely be consistent with any man of his heritage an fortune. He never imagined anyone thought him a bad guy - arrogant, conceited, insensible to the feelings of others. Ouch! Elizabeth was the first one with the ovaries and the honesty to tell it like it is. (And this, my friends, is the foundation, of the trust and deep affection that will grow in their relationship to make them the happiest couple in Austen Valley.) He was totally blown away! But it awakened him to the view of himself that he just didn't see before. He was not arrogant, conceited, or insensitive to the feeling of others (so, he didn't suffer fools gladly, but we can't hold that against him) or the realization would not have been so 'exceedingly painful'. He would not have then reflected on his previous behavior with such 'abhorance'. It is these feeling that clue us in to who and what he really is . He made some mistakes, so did Elizabeth, so do we."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:40)", "body": "Bravo Sharon! My views exactly as you will see if and when I ever finish my Young Fitz story!!;-)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:56)", "body": "Amy2, Mr. Knightley was a young 37! Besides, in ancient Greece, you had middle-aged men marrying teenagers! At least Emma is of modern drinking age...;)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:56)", "body": "True, Sharon, and I hadn't looked at it quite that way before, but, amy2, those 16 years of experience that Mr. Knightley has intrigue me exceedingly...and I can't help thinking that all those reservations Darcy had cannot simply disappear.It is human nature to become complacent once we get what we want. You know, marry in haste; repent at leisure. But I bow under the weight of you all; I don't think my views are likely to be adopted!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (23:26)", "body": "'.It is human nature to become complacent once we get what we want.' Sure, Sue, perhaps if we are allowed to be. Even if Darcy were one not to learn from his mistakes, I just don't think Lizzy would cut him too much slack."}, {"response": 32, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (11:30)", "body": "Kali, I'm 37, and I don't feel that young. A sixteen-year age difference is pretty severe. As far as Darcy always being the same person -- yes! This is exactly Janet Aylmer's view in her superb DARCY'S STORY. Sharon, you MUST get your hands on this book! We talk a great deal in screenwriting about a character's \"arc\" -- how they must go from Point A to radically new Point B and have at least three revelations, one self-revelation, blah blah. Know it sounds formulaic, and it is, but I guess you could say that Darcy's \"arc\" changes radically."}, {"response": 33, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (11:37)", "body": "Amy, I am interested in hearing what the other two \"arcs\" are."}, {"response": 34, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (20:24)", "body": "OK, Sharon. Actually, there is usually one \"arc\" per character. Darcy's arc is: He goes from a proud, distant man who would disdain someone like Elizabeth to someone who actively courts her good opinion & love. The \"revelations\" refer to story points where the character realizes something key and the \"throughline\" (the story, basically) takes a subtle turn. Elizabeth's revelation points are easier to plot since she's the protagonist. Darcy is so reticent that some of his occur non-verbally, and some, off-screen (as when he decides to ask Lizzy to marry him)."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:32)", "body": "This notion of an arc -- I can't get a visual out of my head: Lizzy, say, starting on the ground in one place and popping up and over in a rainbow sized arc -- not flying, but upright, Mary Poppins style or in the manner of a game piece being moved."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "With a parasol and baggage, Amy?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "Hmmm, in Lizzy's case? With a dagger she drops down to the ground halfway there, and an eyemask or blinders similarly cast away."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (01:37)", "body": "popping up and over in a rainbow sized arc -- not flying, but upright, Mary Poppins style // And when she is landed near that pond... (what if she had fallen into it and Darcy just arrived on his white horse and had to rescue her and all of their clothes were wet and...)... no... landed near that pond, her knees would be week and her heart beating as she saw the movement in the buttercups as if somebody was approaching...she would forget about her umbrella like captain Wentworth and Darcy's rainbow arc would end at that same spot and that is where the treasure is, so we are told in fairyta es.Arc-treasure-arc."}, {"response": 39, "author": "amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (01:47)", "body": "Ann2, you are so cute. Glad you can\u007f always seem to tune in to my nonsense."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (02:39)", "body": "Ann2 is quite a lot of fun!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (07:07)", "body": "I am aware this is not chat, but must just say Amy and Kali you are my precious darlings!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (09:59)", "body": "Hey! What about me Ann? I think you're cute too! ;-)"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (15:37)", "body": "Cheryl! That goes without mentioning...of course you're a sweetie ;-)"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (16:00)", "body": "Yes, Sharon! This is what I was trying to say about the fencing scene; he was struggling to overcome the behaviors that made him appear 'arrogant, conceited, or insensitive to the feeling of others'. It was in his nature to strive to be the best, and it had been revealed to him that his manners did not give him the best first impression on people. Lizzy put it the best to Mr. Wickham when she said 'I believe that he did not change in essentials; merely that one's opinion of him improves upon better acq aintance'...(paraphrasing here). It is telling that even here, where she has no doubt that they will have no future history, she has to make her improved opinion of him known. (Although the urge to 'stick it' to Wickham certainly incited some of this response.)"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "Awww...much love! :)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (13:36)", "body": "Is this a private love-in, or can anybody join in?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Becks", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (17:51)", "body": "This is big, but I love this picture of Lizzie in wedding garb:"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (22:34)", "body": "Becks, that is really beautiful!! Thanks for sharing."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (18:09)", "body": "Tom and Nicole looks to be quite the couple themselves.. one always seems to be caught gazing into the other's eye. Should have had Firth also on the cover, intent and gazing love-struct at her."}, {"response": 50, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Apr  2, 1997 (22:57)", "body": "\"The most happy couple in the whole Austen (Austin?) valley\" would seem to be any pair (or more) of P&P addicts who can continue to share their insights on a loved author and film without becoming paranoid about which BB they're posting on, alternately perhaps, until one ceases to be viable. However, the problem remains that if Amy , HC, and the other original conference hosts have in fact decamped from this site, then it would seem Terry will have to alter the header data to reflect his own new job here as host and affix a non-Amy new title/header to this conference as well, since she is now using her header at another location for her group and followers."}, {"response": 51, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr  2, 1997 (23:19)", "body": "Would any volunteer like to step forward and become interim host of this conference? Amy is always welcome here and I hope she changes her mind and comes back. I really miss her energy here. I think it would be fun to expand this into a literary site and create conferences around other giants of the arts and literature. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 144, "subject": "Pride and Prejudice on A&E (again)", "response_count": 64, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (14:15)", "body": "Thanks, Laura. Come back."}, {"response": 2, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "Amy I too missed you guys, my little one had the flu really bad last week that I even took time off from work and this workaholic never takes time off. I see that I have missed a lot of good info and little chats. You will see my name is different I inadvertently deleted my self off the list. Don't ask bad day. well it is good to be back. So if anyone can find out about this P&P it would be great there is no info on the A&E web page I checked."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (17:56)", "body": "PLEASE let it be P&P2!! I haven't taped it yet, and the nearest video store that carries it is about 20 miles away!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:42)", "body": "What is 20 miles of good road!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "Kaff: My cable guide lists \"Pride and Prejudice\" with Colin Firth, Jennifer Ehle and says \"This BBC production of Jane Austen's classic comedy of manners features lavish sets and was filmed on location in England.\" Part 1 (3:00 hrs)Feb.8, 8:00 p.m. EST; Part 2 (3:00 hrs) Feb. 9, 9:00 p.m. EST. Enjoy!!;-)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:50)", "body": "Correction Sorry - I need stronger glasses!! Times are: Part 1, Feb. 8, 9:OO p.m. EST; Part 2, Feb. 9, 8:00 p.m. Est and 12:00 mid. Each 3 hours long."}, {"response": 7, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "Kaff : video store that carries it is about 20 miles away! Ann : What is 20 miles of good road! = Oh Kathleen, you had it coming, it was just too easy"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "Each part will be show twice;almost back to back; Part 1, Feb. 8, 9:OO p.m. EST and Feb. 9, 1:00 a.m.; Part 2, Feb. 9, 8:00 p.m. EST and 12:00 mid. Each 3 hours long. They are showing some other nonsense in between; Where is our ''Making of P & P'' ???"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "The red was because I am seeing red because of their oversight. BTW; that was my very first html ever!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (14:38)", "body": "Would'nt mind a JA fest and the showing of other movies : Northanger Abbey perhaps?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (16:37)", "body": "] BTW; that was my very first html ever! they'll be no stopping her now!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (22:24)", "body": "Mari: that was my very first html ever! APPLAUSE"}, {"response": 13, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (11:17)", "body": "How can we persuade them to show \"Making Of\" or at least make it available for sale? Should we circulate a petition or something?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (12:32)", "body": "I believe that Amy and others have tried to communicate the depth of our feelings on this topic, to no avail. It seems incredible that they would give 12 hours of air time in two days to showing the mini-series, and NOT show the making of during that same time frame, but there it is..."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "Most likely, A&E makes programming decisions based on their interpretation of public demand. If a sufficient number requested the Making Of , they would surely take notice unless they have no interest in turning a profit. In general, I've had so little interest in television that I've not previously cared what was aired. However, in this case I have an interest in seeing the tape but now am uncertain whom I should contact."}, {"response": 16, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "I read somewhere that only the diehard fanatics were requesting it, and they felt that that wasn't a large enough audience. Boy are they WRONG."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "\"I read somewhere that only the diehard fanatics were requesting it, and they felt that that wasn't a large enough audience. Boy are they WRONG.\" Um, Laura...I think WE ARE the fanatics they were referring to!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "alix", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (18:38)", "body": "Us?? Never! Anyway,what is the deal with the \"Making of...\" tape? Is it available for rental? I haven' seen it around, but it could just be me."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (18:49)", "body": "perhaps A&E didn't buy into the rights of the making tape, and is reluctant to shell out for the priviledge of showing it, no matter how vociferous the requests..."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (01:48)", "body": "Stingy bastards!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "alix", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "Amen!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "alix", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (19:25)", "body": "Amen! To deprive us of so much more Firth is downright Scroogish."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (11:57)", "body": "The new, improved and most cunning class of fanatic....the middle-class, middle-aged housewife from Mid-America. Beware of subterfuge and innocently appearing requests for The Making of Pride & Prejudice or even the series itself!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (13:22)", "body": "Should we not open a new recruiting center here in the Conference for new addicts which will certainly come in droves? Can we not all go into A&E on line and tell them we would like to see the Making of....maybe if all of us did so...they would see it isn't just a few. I for one have never seen it and would love to! Linda in Ga"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Becks", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:05)", "body": "Yes, if say we posted a thread asking each one of us to e-mail A&E. and most of us did, would they not notice us?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:26)", "body": "Once wondered if the same process would apply for Colin Firth to appear on a talk-show (say Rosie's)..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:54)", "body": "Ramona led us in this activity back in September - but to no avail..."}, {"response": 28, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "Where is Ramona? Lets try again! There are more of us now and it's worth the try!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "mich", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "going with the squeaky wheel theory what if we emailed weekly until they gave in?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (00:31)", "body": "Has anyone noticed in the advertisements for this showing of P&P have scenes from the 'extended version?' I think A&E is not advertising fairly because even if the series in shown in two three hour segments, they will have to show the shorter version to compensate for commericials. They (A&E) just keep vexing us at every turn.;-)"}, {"response": 31, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (01:56)", "body": "Karen: Has anyone noticed in the advertisements for this showing of P&P have scenes from the 'extended version?' Yes! In fact, they have done this from the beginning! During the very first broadcast of P&P2 you could download a QuickTime movie of the short promo from A&E's web page - and in it was Lizzie standing on the peak saying \"Beautiful\" - which had never been seen in any of the airings of P&P2 by A&E outside of the Classroom broadcasts."}, {"response": 32, "author": "mpk", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (01:04)", "body": "Sisters! There has to be a way of getting Colin onto a talk show...It seems to me that Rosie's show would be user friendly if we did show up, in e-mail form,in droves. Maybe realistically, though, there would be an interest from the various talk shows just before \"A Thousand Acres\" is released. I'm sure Michelle Pfeifer(sp?)/Rose and Jessica Lange/Ginny will enlighten the rest of America about our man!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (10:35)", "body": "Here, here Marina...I am with you...what is the address? I'd love to see CF on a talk show..although, ladies...it may mean we will have much more competition...it will be his coming out into society...all hearts will be a flutter!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "Get him out of the closet, girls"}, {"response": 35, "author": "winter", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:27)", "body": ""}, {"response": 36, "author": "winter", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:30)", "body": "just got through watching P&P2 again on A&E... capital! capital! and i do believe there were some minor additions to this version! i can't remember the particular parts, but conversations (esp. at the bennet dining table) seemed extended. can someone please confirm this for me? otherwise i'll be the big idiot of the conference...."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:54)", "body": "Sorry, winter, but actually they cut the scenes from the tapes I bought that they cut the first time around--to make room for all those D*** commercials! Otherwise it was the same version as last year's January showing."}, {"response": 38, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (02:08)", "body": "To me it almost seemed as if they cut additional scenes to add commercials! :-( And I really missed not being able to fast-forward through certain portions. ;-)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (08:42)", "body": "Joan, too -- and I wanted to rewind to see some scenes again! Once you have a taped version (from the broadcast or purchased), it get harder to watch it in a purely linear fashion!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (19:17)", "body": "Overall, think A&E behaved very well indeed for a broadcasting network. They cut 1/2 hour in 3 which was pretty good compare to what we were given by SRC last autumn (minimum of 45 minutes to a full hour cut in 3). It's so hard just to stay there and watch. Agree Joan too and Kathleen, we're are used the interactive mode by now. When is the virtual reality game coming... hhuuummmmmmmmmm"}, {"response": 41, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (11:29)", "body": "And the laserdisc! This would be the coolest, because we could just click to our favorite scenes, And the freeze frame is very effective. Now, they just add a track of the \"Making Of. . .\" and. . ."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "I would love a letter box version of P&P2. No more cut off heads and such. As for the commercials, does anyone know anything about Dominic Rowan who depicts Mr. Elton? I swear he looks familiar, I am sure I have seen him in something, but I can't think what and it is driving me crazy."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (17:55)", "body": "Are you referring to the Paltrow Emma? Didn't he play the slime in \"Circle of Friends\" too?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (18:08)", "body": "Didn't he play the slime in \"Circle of Friends\" too? Wouldn't that be Colin Firth? Oh - the OTHER slime.... [G]"}, {"response": 45, "author": "eljo", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (05:10)", "body": "Carolyn. About Dominic Rowan he's in BBC's No Bananas (currently showing on Swedish television) and if I remember it right from The Making of Emma book he's also appeared in BBC's The Tennant Of Wildelife Hall. For more informatiom on him I have to go home and consult the book tonight. I hope this keeps you from going crazy."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (09:43)", "body": "Kathleen...other slime? You can't be referring to Colin? I'm all astonishment!....and disagreement!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (10:01)", "body": "His character in Circle of Friends was a slimeball. When I think of him showing those pictures to that girl -- not so innocent, but so eager to please -- I just shudder."}, {"response": 48, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (10:12)", "body": "Amy, I just rented Circle of Friends yesterday and will watch it today...I don't want to see him as a slimeball............"}, {"response": 49, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (11:05)", "body": "I must confess I worked on Circle of Friends at Savoy Pictures. But I couldn't for the life of me remember who Colin played until someone told me last week!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (11:18)", "body": "Thanks, Elisabeth but I have not seen No Bananas or The Tennant Of Wildelife Hall. So it must be from someplace else. Maybe I learn the answer next Sunday when I watch Emma."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (11:23)", "body": "What did you do on the picture, Amy2?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "re 44 :Didn't he play the slime in \"Circle of Friends\" too? Wouldn't that be Colin Firth? Oh - the OTHER slime.... [G] One slimmy was Alan Cumming, Reverend Elton in Emma 1996 (Paltrow and Northam version). He played Sean, Bernie's Father' little nasty porno-photo-viewing clerk. Another slimmy role was the nerdy Boris in Goldeneye. For once he played the good guy as Bernard Bottle in Bernard and the Genie opposite Pinkworth's Rowan Atkinson."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "Amy: I couldn't for the life of me remember who Colin played until someone told me last week! Not his most likable role, I agree, but he shone through a few times there. I did get a kick out of his \"Nan, oh Nan, oh Nan!!\" And let's be honest -- she only wanted him because she thought he'd get her out of her unwelcome life, so she wasn't playing fair either. I hate to be hard on my own sex, but there it is."}, {"response": 54, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (11:28)", "body": "Amy, I placed all of the print ads in the newspapers, and the TV spots too. In other words: advertising."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (11:46)", "body": "] I would love a letter box version of P&P2. No more cut off heads and such. __ But it was shot for TV."}, {"response": 56, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (05:01)", "body": "] I would love a letter box version of P&P2. No more cut off heads and such. __ But it was shot for TV. Actually, in most frames there would probably be nothing of significance added, and it's quite possible that things such as microphone booms and other technical paraphanalia might be visible in the frame, since they knew that when transferred to video they would not show."}, {"response": 57, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "Yeah, the only way we can get the widescreen version is to have them go back and shoot in Panavision!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (15:50)", "body": "Amy2: have them go back and shoot in Panavision! Oh Yes, happy thought indeed!!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (19:45)", "body": "...Breathtaking Cinemascope and Steophonic Sound, and Stereophonic Sound!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (20:38)", "body": "While they're at it, they could add all the scenes left out of P&P2, plus another hour or two at the end!!;-)"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Karen", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (23:35)", "body": "Inko \"While they're at it, they could add all the scenes left out of P&P2, plus another hour or two at the end!!;-)\" YES!YES!YES!"}, {"response": 62, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (11:18)", "body": "Ann -- that is my favorite number from SILK STOCKINGS!!!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (21:44)", "body": "I was hoping someone would catch my reference!!!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (11:15)", "body": "I love that show. It's my favorite MGM musical! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 145, "subject": "Ha! Ha! That was punny!", "response_count": 23, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (22:05)", "body": "I did not know them, Arnessa. They never even occurred to me."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "Arnessa: put me down as another punster - my whole family loves them, but I really love the unintentional ones! I've always thought that Davies put a marvellous pun into Lizzie's mouth at Hunsford when Col. Fitz sits down and says \"I've heard much of you and none of the praise has been exaggerated\" Lizzie replies \"I can well believe that! Mr. Darcy is my severest critic.\" I'm not sure it's a real pun, but I love the way Lizzie misunderstands (perhaps on purpose) the words \"Praise\" and \"exaggerated\"."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (22:52)", "body": "I never noticed any puns, just the irony and wit. This is a fun idea."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Saman", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (17:28)", "body": "The puns totally escaped me too, and I'm usually excessively attentive to these matters. My favourite of the ones you've pointed out would have to be the manners/manors one - I now know why I never understood Darcy's remark \"you'd better take it...\" Thanks Arnessa"}, {"response": 5, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (19:54)", "body": "Thanks Saman for confirming what was always a question, took most it this as misunderstand of language, and am please to now realized that I understood more than a couple of them (and later discarting them as part of my wild imagination) Thanks for making me realizing the right track is just ahead !"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (21:44)", "body": "Alright. get ready to groan, because the lowest form of a pun is- A Knock, knock, Joke! Knock knock \"Who's There?\" \"Colin\" \"Colin who?\" \"Thought you guys would be the Firth to know\""}, {"response": 7, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "OUCH!! Very good one, Caroline"}, {"response": 8, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (23:27)", "body": "Caroline - great - I can't knock it at all!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (03:03)", "body": "#6 That's great -- you're right, we should have seen it coming!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (21:53)", "body": "Groan! That was pretty bad, Caroline, which means I liked it very well indeed. I think puns are pretty much like French cheese: the ones that stink the most are the best. Great line, katy. You're a punster too, I see. Glad so many punsters on board. Inko, I don't think the \"severest critic\" line is technically a pun. I don't know another meaning for \"critic.\" It is very clever, though. I think it's more like a metaphor. Lizzy extends Col. Fitz's words and meaning, saying Darcy is a critic because his praise is not exaggerated. Lizzy and Darcy do that a lot to each other, extending the others' metaphors. Think of the conversation around the Rosings piano. Wonder if that's a sign of intimacy, like finishing someone's se tences? Hmmm..."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (11:20)", "body": "I think puns are pretty muchlike French cheese: the ones that stink the most are the best. Great line, katy. You're a punster too, Definitely! Mine is an over-ripe camembert, Katy's a refined small sliver of Roquefort........ Lizzy and Darcy do that a lot to each other, extending the others' metaphors. Think of the conversation around the Rosings piano. I always enjoy \"We neither of us perform to strangers.\" (no, Cheryl,no! I was't thinking of that at all!)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (15:29)", "body": "Exasperated *sigh!*"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (21:49)", "body": "I realized that there is another time the \"fine prospect\" line is used. Mrs. Jennings tells Lizzy to go look out of the window at Pemberley, \"And there's a fine prospect from that window down towards the lake.\" A fine prospect, indeed. The pun is too pointedly used to be unintentional, wouldn't you say? Davies could have had Lizzy go to the window without Mrs. Jennings' prompting."}, {"response": 14, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (11:47)", "body": "You're right, Arnessa! I also like all of the foreshadowing in P&P2. Like when Lizzy says: \"I think I can safely promise you NEVER to dance with Mr. Darcy,\" and Jane's line: \"Even Mr. Darcy may improve upon closer acquaintance.\""}, {"response": 15, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (13:13)", "body": "\"I beg you not to believe all of his assertions.\""}, {"response": 16, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (17:54)", "body": "I like puns too, Arnessa. But I don't think I had seen any before in P&P. Thank you. How we have grown!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:31)", "body": "Amy, do you mean Caroline Bingley's \"Let me recommend you, however, as a friend, not to give implicit confidence to all his assertions\" ?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (15:38)", "body": "do you mean ___ Yeah, yeah, whatever. Did not feel like looking it up. O kay ?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (21:38)", "body": "\"The very rich can AFFORD to give offense wherever they go.\" -Lizzy to her mother at the Meryton assembly."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (19:06)", "body": "Caroline, I loved the knock knock joke!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (15:18)", "body": "When Lizzy says to Wickham something about ample sources of recreation . You are for Brighton (and we all know his recreation source there) and I am touring the lakes with my Aunt and Uncle. She was to concentrate on one lake (the one she has viewed from the windows at Pemberley)..Darcy: Follow us to the lake, my man will show you...And they begin their grand tour ( In the novel he comes to meet them on a walk near the lake)."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (10:18)", "body": "Andrew davies seems the have a bit of a thing about water all together."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (11:59)", "body": "For which we are all very appreciative . austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 146, "subject": "Sense and Sensibility", "response_count": 90, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (05:03)", "body": "Cool. It's Sunday, Feb. 2 now...when do we start? ;)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (08:54)", "body": "Before we get into the story, acting, directing, and so forth, I want to praise the soundtrack of this movie. I frequently listen to it when I am working on the computer -- even when I can't remember what scene the music is from, the mood is very clear. The soundtrack uses an opera singer to perform the pieces that Kate Winslet's Marianne sang in the movie. Beautifully done, but different quality (less natural, I guess). Anyway, I find this one of the most moving soundtracks ever."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (10:34)", "body": "I listen to the soundtrack also. Patrick Doyle's page is htp://web.syr.edu/~ebedgert/doyle.html"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (10:35)", "body": "Soundtracks of Patrick Doyle http://web.syr.edu/~ebedgert/doyle.html"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (11:29)", "body": "This would be the \"softly, softly\" when Colonel Brandon arrives and is immediately Love- struck? Truly beautiful song .And does Kate sing it herself?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (11:33)", "body": "In the movie she does,but not on the CD Ann."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (14:56)", "body": "Is there a sexier line in this movie than Col. Brandon's \"Give me an occupation, lest I run mad!! \" I think not! *sigh*"}, {"response": 8, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:23)", "body": "And the look in the good Colonel's eyes every time he sees Marianne. Ahh, to have such eyes looking at me in this way. siiggghhhhh. Alan Rickman's performance was praised by many critics, of course, but my favorite was in \"The New Yorker\" (Dec 18, 1995 issue): \"Rickman, accepting the challenge of holding our interest in the unhappiness of a reserved middle-aged man, draws us into Brandon's politely ardent spirit: his soft, deep voice and his yearning eyes keep telling us that there's more to him than Marianne can see. Although many English actors have taken a crack at portraying repression, Rickman may be the only one since Trevor Howard in 'Brief Encounter' who has made it magnetic.\" Magnetic, indeed. Alan Rickman made me see a Colonel Brandon who could eventually win Marianne's heart, something I was never certain based on my own idea of how he would look/act."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (18:08)", "body": "Thanks for The New Yorker excerpt. I did so love Rickman's portrayal of the Colonel. Another scene which deeply touched me is when the camera pans up to the hillside after the wedding ceremony and there's Willoughby on his horse, obviously thinking about what might have been. I wonder how close Marianne's thought that he might have grown to be sorry for marrying her was to the truth."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (18:09)", "body": "\"Although many English actors have taken a crack at portraying repression, Rickman may be the only one since Trevor Howard in 'Brief Encounter' who has made it magnetic.\" I take it the person who said that didn't see Colin Firth's Darcy!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (18:33)", "body": "I thought the same thing Ann.:-)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (19:06)", "body": "I too love Alan Rickman as Col Brandon-the look in his eyes when Marianne thanks him for bringing her Mother. Sigh. My favorite scene, though, which never fails to send me reaching for the box of kleenex, has to be the beautifully shot scene of Marianne, looking out at Combe Magana. The rain, Pat Doyle's lushly romantic music, and of course the brillant Kate Winslet(Love is not Lost...Willoughby, Willoughby) always move me. On a related note, Did anyone feel cheated that the movie didn't include Willoughby's confession to Elinor? I understand why they didn't-wanting to make certain who the real hero of the film is-Brandon. But, that is one one of my all-time favorite parts in the book. Plus, it reveals another side to Elinor's personality. She really responds to Willoughby's magnetism and exclamations of Marianne-looking like an angel."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (20:55)", "body": "Loved the New Yorker review. But, Ann and Donna, it was written (12/18/95) before P&P aired here, so they couldn't have seen Colin's Darcy yet. I have to rewatch S&S before I comment at length, but when I first saw it in the theatre I took a friend who had never read the book. She asked me if the final scene with Willoughby on the horse was in the book, which made me reread it. I thought it was a very good synopsis of two long pages of text - all shown in 30 seconds or less. I guess that's what good screen adaptations do! More later."}, {"response": 14, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (21:23)", "body": "Picture-trigger-happy strikes again : Elinor strolls with Edward across Norland Park, the estate that was once her home. Colonel Brandon (Alan Rickman) yearns for Marianne (Kate Winslet)even though she yearns for someone else."}, {"response": 15, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (21:43)", "body": "Here is the official poster from Fox in Switzerland"}, {"response": 16, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (21:50)", "body": "Johanne, thanks for all these pics -- you have been busy, haven't you! The poster is the same as the cover on the screenply & diary by Emma Thompson."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "Johanne, thank you so much for the lovely photos! Cassandra: Did anyone feel cheated that the movie didn't include Willoughby's confession to Elinor? Yes, I did. The omission diminished the importance of Willoughby's character and made him seem like a one-dimensional villain. Thompson's substitute--having Col. Brandon relate some of W's history to Elinor in London--was a pale substitute for what could have been a dramatic, emotional scene. But then, I wonder whether Greg Wise could have done it justice. I thought he was pretty cold and stiff, and I frankly wondered what Marianne saw in him. Susan: when the camera pans up to the hillside after the wedding ceremony and there's Willoughby on his horse When I first saw this in a movie theater, at this point the audience hissed!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (22:00)", "body": "On another note, here are some interesting reviews : from the Tower of Babel : http://www.towerofbabel.com/film/towerofcritics/sense_&_sensibility.shtml from the Boston Phoenix : http://www.bostonphoenix.com/alt1/archive/movies/reviews/12-14-95/SENSE_AND_SENSIBILITY.html from Premiere Magazine : http://www.premieremag.com/marquee/nowplay/sense/ from Hendrix College, The Profile on-line : http://www.hendrix.edu/profile/01.25.96/sense.html and I could'nt not post this one as well :"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (22:23)", "body": "First of all, I find virtually no flaws in this film. It is my fave of all movies. I made me laugh, it made me cry, it made me feel!! S&S is what brought about my JA addiction, and the most ironic thing was the day I saw it, was the first day of P&P on A&E. Coincidence, I think not!! One thing I would also like to point out is another ommission of when Edward does visit the Dashwoods at the cottage, and leaves without Elinor being sure of his feelings. I loved the screenplay, but I don't know whether I would have wanted this in the film. What does everyone else think?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Karen", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (23:51)", "body": "I recently read the screenplay and will have to watch the movie again soon but must comment on Greg Wise. I think casting him as Willoughby was very good since he so captures the JA villian - good looking but lacking in character. In P&P2 Adrian Lucas was attractive but (to me) not as handsome as Wise (nor Darcy) If I had pictures, I'd start a drool topic with him. ;-) I agree with everyone's comments on Alan Rickman. He was superb! I really felt for him as he loved Marianne from afar. He is an incredible actor!! But must concede that Darcy/CF wins for suppressed passsion. Rebecca - I agree with you. Having Edward visit, may have caused viewers to feel that he was playing with Elinor's emotions."}, {"response": 21, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (00:03)", "body": ""}, {"response": 22, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (01:19)", "body": "One of my favorite scenes is when Col. Brandon carries Maryanne into the house. It is a complete contrast as to when Willowby did the very same thing. Willowby with all his youth, strength, and romance novel hero type looks is what every young woman wants...yet Col. Brandon straining, breathing heavy, and look of anguish is what every woman needs, a man who does this because he loves not just because he wants to be loved."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (01:57)", "body": "Good point, Candace. It's important to note that Col. Brandon is a real man (literally and figuratively!), aging, and with the rheumatism to prove it (!), and not a youthful fantasy. In this adaptation, Willoughby is portrayed as such a fairytale cipher I think it's impossible to take him seriously...especially during the scene where he comes to check up on Marianne, and whips out the pocket sonnets when he finds out they are Marianne's favorites (in the book, wasn't Marianne's favorite author/poet Cowp r?). Greg Wise seems to ham him up, even, while he speaks, impassioned, to Marianne. Anyway, I agree that the trials of adoration are much more attractive than the simplicity of a fairy-tale romance. Col. Brandon goes out after Marianne, and overexerts himself to haul her back to safety. He looks like he's about to keel over when he gets her inside...Willoughby's rescue was much too perfect and too easy, and way too coincidental to be reality. Especially with that damn white (gray, really) horse..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (02:25)", "body": "#21 They hissed? Even though Willoughby was a scoundrel, I still felt somewhat bad for him. He really had meant to propose to Marianne; he wasn't just stringing her along. Obviously, the Colonel's love for her is compelling and irresistible and I was on his side, but they hissed? Poor man!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (02:40)", "body": "He WAS pathetic...because he did stupid, jerky things! Willoughby is a man who lets life ruin his happiness. He is no liar, but he is so irresponsible and inconsiderate (esp. in the film)...and ineffectual...that he forces himself to violate others' confidence in him! He emasculates himself! What a mess."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (11:05)", "body": "Susan: Even though Willoughby was a scoundrel, I still felt somewhat bad for him. He really had meant to propose to Marianne; he wasn't just stringing her along. . . . they hissed? Poor man! But in the movie , the complexity of his character is not as clear as it was in the book. That's my main objection to the omission of the scene in which he comes to Cleveland when Marianne is sick. The fact that he'd go there at all (even if he was a little drunk at the time) to face a frozenly disapproving Elinor, and talk about his bad behavior towards Marianne and Eliza, shows that he has courage, at least. Leaving it out of the movie meant that people who know only the movie will consi er him a one-dimensional villain who deserved at least a good hissing."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (11:35)", "body": "Can I put in a good word for the other couple? I thought Ms Thompson and Mr Grant did a wonderful job. I always had problems reading the book because Edward always seemed a bit shadowy and insubstantial, and Elinor never did anything romantic- or so it seemed.But I took to HG's Edward at once, and his tactics at drawing out Margaret from under the library table suddenly made the whole story make sense(!) to me.I am always in awe of Ms thompson, and can only say that she was absolutely flawless in this. I ought the video, a vaery rare phenomenon in our house!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (12:19)", "body": "I am with you Caroline-I am not a huge Hugh Grant fan, but I was also impressed with the charm and underlined sweetness that he brought to the Edward role, even with all the fluttering of eyelashes.(one of JA's more shadowy creations) I really liked all of the scenes between Edward and Margaret(especially when she pokes him with her sword, and of course Elinor's reaction). I agree-those scenes as well as the My father's Favorite shot bring a greater depth and sense of romance to the E/E romance. And, one of my all time favorite JA adaptation-romantic scenes has to be the My Heart is and always will be-yours."}, {"response": 29, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (12:29)", "body": "Wouldn't you all agree that the essence of S&S is the relationship between the sisters? I think that the romantic relationships/complications and of course Marianne's heartbreak are secondary to the sister dynamic. The movie/book moves me the most on that level;it reminds me so much of my own relationship with my sister. And-I love how ET played the scene where she's begging Mrainne not to leave her alone. I remember reading in her diaries that they were going to play that scene full-out with the waterwor s. BUt, they decided at the last minute to do it like a frightened child. Incredible, moving scene-it really shows Elinor's hidden vulnerability."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (12:30)", "body": "\"He's sitting next to her!\"........................\"He's going down on one knee!\"But we never know if he had a ring handy or not!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (12:31)", "body": "Cass, get into Pemberley.....NOW!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (15:26)", "body": "I really liked how Margaret became a person in this movie..in the book, she's barely mentioned and in the earlier BBC adaptation, she isn't even there! Having her interact with Edward was a brillant device on Emma Thompson's part, because Edward is very shadowy in the book as well in the early going. It's hard to see what elinor would find so attractive in Edward, but I could definately see how she could \"esteem him\"! :-)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (15:27)", "body": "Caroline-apparently, they shot an additional scene with Edward explaining how jealous he was of Col. Brandon, ending with a kiss.(ET really wanted to kiss Hugh after all the movies they have been in together) But, they cut it. Too much kissing for a JA movie."}, {"response": 34, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (19:41)", "body": "]\"Too much kissing for a JA movie.\" But was a kiss really necessary? We have complained (some of us, anyway!) that the kiss in P&P2 was not all that great. I echo the opinions regarding expanding the part for Margaret -- it was nicely done. One movie review I read complained that Emma Thompson had added a sister; he obviously had not read the book! I think Margaret was a little younger in the movie, as well, but that balances out (a little bit) the actors who were much older than the parts in the book (Elinor is supposed to be 19 and Col Brandon about 36). Actually, with an older Elinor, she is more believeable; at 19, to be so very sensible, controlled, etc. is almost too much."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Karen", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (23:32)", "body": "I agree with Caroline and Cassandra regarding Edward in the adaption; HG made him a very likable man. And as Kathleen states, his interaction with Margaret was a hoot. Could someone explain Lucy Steele to me? Does she inflict herself on Elinor (by feigning to be her friend) because she knows Edward loves E? I just cannot believe she has that much on the ball to be that evil."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Karen", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (01:34)", "body": "Johanne - Thank you so much for the picture of Willoughby! I know he is contemptible but Greg Wise is really handsome. I also agree that Emma's portrayal made Elinor's sense come across as both logic but also to protect her from getting hurt. Also I agree with Cassandra, S&S to me is also about the relationship between these two sisters and reminded me of my own relationship with my dearest sibling."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (01:54)", "body": "I agree with you Cass, about the sister-realtionship being the main focus of the story. The romantic relationships are obviously secondary...after all, Edward is absent for the middle half of the film, and the plot moves right along with or without the extra sensitivity on Willoughby's part, and, of course, Willoughby (essentially a cipher anyway, at least in the film) gets traded in for Col. Brandon at the end (Brandon is more real in the film than in the book, but he's still essentailly a substitute fo the other guy when Marianne grows up). Elinor's and Marianne's friendship is the only bond which is obviously consistent and real throughout the entire thing. They are always together. Wasn't the original title of the book supposed to be Elinor and Marianne anyway? --- Lucy? I don't know. Evil, probably not...but certainly very selfish. She saw Edward as a possession, a ticket to prosperity, and didn't want to lose him. Perhaps she was simply afraid of Elinor's influence on Edward and just wanted to see what she was up against. When she found that Elinor was nice, she probably thought barbed hints might scare her away sufficiently."}, {"response": 38, "author": "IF", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (07:32)", "body": "About Hugh Grant's acting, he play's the same character in every film he's ever done. In Four weddings and a funeral and Nine months, he play's the shy, bumbiling, slightly charming Englishman who manages to get himself into all kinds of trouble, but some how manages to solve the problems and gets the girl. But, he is very good with this character and in this film. I also loved Margaret, she is the typical 12 year old who spends all her time up trees and under furniture. The funniest scene in this whole film is when Margaret hits Edward in the stomach with a stick when Elinor is looking at them through the window. I have to say that I may like this film more than P&P."}, {"response": 39, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (11:01)", "body": "You know a movie is good when a 6 y.o absolutely adores it. She gets hysterical when Edward finds Margaret under the table and kicks the atlas so Fanny doesn't see her. She loves the swordfight between M and E. I took her to see it in the theaters and at first she was complaining that she did not want to see it. But she too, got caught up in the prettyness of that world. Alan Rickman, IMO, was absolutely perfect. When he first comes on the scene listening to Marianne singing, you know he is far gone. He is smitten. I have always been a big Hugh Grant fan so I thought the sublety he brought to this role was refreshing. Any other actor could have overacted, as you will. Hugh Laurie, lest we not forget him. I could not stop laughing whenever he was in the scene. He is the most funniest thing going. I loved how he would put down Charlotte, but you knew he really loved her. The scene with the baby. And Mrs Jennings explaining how much he loves his son. The price of the ticket alone was worth that scene. Ang Lee, should be commended. For a man of foreign extraction to actually hit Jane Austen's period on the head, he should have won Best Director, or even been nominated. Well I've rambled on enough."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "I'm glad someone else mentioned Hugh Laurie. His \"I came into town with no other thought\" was great. I also loved how he let his guard down and offered Elinor any assistance he could give when he and his family had to leave their house because of Marianne's illness. It was so truly heartfelt. And yes, the scene with the baby was absolutely priceless!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (14:01)", "body": "re: #24 In the book Willoughby tells Elinore that he initially considered Marianne (and her family) as someone to \"play\" with until he had to leave - a distraction, but that he did eventually develope real affection for her. I have to agree about Rickman - he is a great actor. See him in Rasputen (for which he won the Golden Globe - did I spell that right?) and also Truly, Madly, Deeply . He does so much with his looks to let us know how he feels. If you think about it, many of the small charcters do stand out work: Laurie, Jennings, even her butler (with that twisted wig and look for Marianne). Explain more about the alternate ending where Edward is jeolous of Brandon. Was this what he told her in the book? Did I miss something? I guess I should buy ET's book. Wouldn't you love to have her as a friend? She would be great at parties. She spins such great yarns on talks shows. I would love to be that clever. My favorite scene is when Elinor yells at Marianne, telling her she would have \"proof enough of a broken heart for her . I agree, it is the sisters relationship that is important here, we just get a little romance as a bonus."}, {"response": 42, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "I also loved Hugh Laurie. My favorite scene: the look on his face when Mrs Jennings tells him that he got Charlotte at a good bargain and she now has th upper hand on him-he can't give her back! And I loved the actress who played Charlotte too: the breathless squeal(sounded like one of Tarzan's animal friends) upon hearing \"London\" and the way she ran over to Elinor and Lucy. As well, her reaction to Marianne sickness-Mrs Barton!Mrs Barton! Kali-you are right. Elinor and Marianne was the original title. I've always loved finding out little facts like this. AS we all know, P&P was supposed too have been First Impressions. And GWTW-Tomorrow is another day. Plus-Scarlett was originally called Pansy. Pansy O'Hara!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (14:27)", "body": "If I may add my favorite Hugh Laurie moment--when Charlotte is gushing on about how she cannot believe Willoughby's home is 5 miles from theirs: \"5 miles? No I cannot believe it!\" and he looks over the edge of his paper and drawls, \"Try.\" Priceless!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (14:39)", "body": "Hugh Laurie is really married to the person who played Charlotte. Little bit of trivia"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (15:42)", "body": "LauraM: Hugh Laurie is really married to the person who played Charlotte. And did they not play another married couple in the movie Peter's Friends which also starred Emma Thonpson and Kenneth Branagh?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (15:44)", "body": ""}, {"response": 47, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (15:50)", "body": "Dina-Good point about Willoughby playing with Marianne, and then devloping real feelings for her. Although as Elinor would say, these sentiments didn't prevent him from abandoning Marianne for Miss Grey and her 10 000 pounds. I always loved the way JA ended the book-very realistic. Willoughby didn't go to ruin over his ardent amour(nor did his wife pluck his heart out as Mrs Jennings suggested). Instead, he continued to enjoy his horses, although many an upcoming beauty was compared unfavourably to Mrs Br ndon. With respect to the alternate eding, I don't remember Edward telling Elinor he was jealous of Brandon in the book. And-I agree about ET-delightful. I loved her acceptance speech at the Golden Globes-Emma Tompkins...."}, {"response": 48, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (16:48)", "body": "Both book and film of S&S are works of genius. But it's kind of hard to like either Elinor or Marianne. Or for that matter many of the characters. The Dashwoods, John and Fanny treat the Dashwood widow and her children very poorly despite the promise made to Mr Dashwood senior. Elinor has too much sense and Marianne has too much romantic sensibility. Premise of the story, I know, but for that reason the two sisters are difficult to really like. And of the male characters, Willoughby is a cad for hiding of his relationship to another woman, amoung other things. Edward's seems weak and totally under the domination of his mother. Despite his vow to Miss Steele. He too engages in deception and hides from Elinor his secret engagement to Miss Steele. Col. Brandon it seems, is really trying to relive n earlier love and maybe regain his youth with a much younger woman. The gift of the living to Edward Ferrars seems merely to engratiate himself with the Dashwood family. Lucy Steele simply wants a good marriage settlement and dumps Edward for Robert Ferrars, when Edward loses his mother's favor. Mrs Ferrars treats, true to form, her youngest son and Lucy Steele poorly and would like to disinherit Robert as well for his interest in Miss Steele. Not to mention Fanny Dashwood's treatment of Miss Stee e. I love JA, but give me the elder Bennet Sisters, Anne Elliot or even Emma or Cath. Morland every time."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (18:24)", "body": "re Dina's comment about Willoughby developing feelings for Marianne after first thinking only of a frolic... Same thing with Henry Crawford and Fanny. JA must have known somebody like that."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (18:25)", "body": "Carl, glad you finally got back in."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "Back to Hugh Laurie/Mr. Palmer in the Baby Thomas Scene: \"...and his father has such a way with him!\" Absolutely priceless."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:49)", "body": "Yes, he really appeared to be a doting father, didn't he?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:25)", "body": "Loved Hugh Laurie's dry wit all through and loved the baby scene. Just felt sorry for the baby!! But typical pose, somehow, even for fathers as recently as 20 or 30 years ago!!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (08:20)", "body": "Hugh Laurie was also a riot in 101 Dalmations. He would have made a wonderful Rosencrantz or Guildenstern in HAMLET. He would have brought much humour to those roles."}, {"response": 55, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (10:56)", "body": "Hugh Laurie can play villains, dumb-bells and a whole wide range of characters. Like him very much when he collaborated with Stephen Fry, specially in A bit of Fry and Laurie\" , the many BlackAdder series (3 and 4), the Jeeves and Wooster series and Peter's friend . The modern Laurel and Hardy. Appreciate his recent turn in his career seeking meatyer roles and perhaps will he do onde day some drama, sure we would discover a whole new side to his talent."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (12:17)", "body": "#49 Amy, I am re-reading Mansfield right now and I do not even remember Henry Crawford wanting to marry Fanny. My memory is of Edmund wanting to marry the wrong woman - Miss Crawford. Goes back to the old argument: how much is remembered, and how much is remembered wrong (as in the movies vs the books). I think Jane also new foppish clergy and a rake with a last name beginning with a \"W\". You have to wonder at her neighbors reading her books trying to make out who everyone really is; like a Jackie Collins novel - oooh, yucky comparison, but you get my drift."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (12:51)", "body": "like a Jackie Collins novel - oooh, yucky comparison, but you get my drift. __ I do. I've not read much of her letters. I wonder if this matter of taking characters from people she knew was a worry or concern of anyone's."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (13:45)", "body": "The foreshadowing here as carried thru by ET is nicely done, also. In the carriage after the dinner at the manor with Sir J and Mrs. Jennings, Marianne is giving Margaret grief for bringing up the initial ''F'' to Mrs. Jennings, and their mother says ''If you can't think of anything nice, you can always talk about the weather''. Then, in the E/E proposal scene, when he first comes in, and there is an awkward pause, Margaret says ''We've been enjoying very fine weather''. Marianne gives her a 'be quiet' nudge, and she says indignantly ''Well, we have!'' Makes me think that ET remembers very well a child's view of the world, and the seemingly random logic of adults."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (13:48)", "body": "In the same scene, I love where Elinor finds out that Edmund is not married, and starts to go to pieces. The looks that pass between mother and daughters, and the way they scuttle out of the room is very good. Funny, sweet and realistic all at the same time."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:10)", "body": "I'm sure JA knew a Miss Bates. In her case, it wouldn't have taken much for JA's family or neighbours to identify who she was taking the mickey out of, would it? Maybe she had long wished in real life to say the kind of thing Emma does, knowing she couldn't. Miss Bates has often seemed to me to be a bit of naughty and understandable catharsis For JA."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "Perhaps Jane herself felt that she had her Bates moments..."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (16:16)", "body": "Good point Kali!!! Haven't we all? What better way in Regency Society to vent your pent up opinions of restrained manners than to write a novel about all the people in your life who drive you batty!!! I purchased a biography on Jane (Park Honan) at Christmas and am hoping it sheds some insight here. I don't know why the obsession with trying to understand her better. I am sure she was a very private person and even in her letters to Cassandra (have only read a few) probably did not share as much as we would have liked. I got Darcy's Story in the mail today -- the biography will have to wait!!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:20)", "body": "One of my favorite scenes in the movie is when Lucy tells Fanny that she is engaged to Edward. The screaming and the physical comedy is very funny! I also adore Hugh Laurie. He is so \"droll\"! I think he is hilarious as Wooster. I agree with Laura about 101 Dalmatians. He is great in that, too."}, {"response": 64, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:24)", "body": "Pardon my grammar! I should have said\"are \" very funny."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (21:11)", "body": "Just an observation: It seems to me that the events in Elinor's and Marianne's love lives are more closely juxtaposed in the plotline of the book than the film. COuld this possibly be because the novel reveals so much more of Elinor's thoughts and concerns in relation to both of their experiences?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (10:03)", "body": "This does mean that Marianne will have to deal with seeing Willoughby's illegitimate child. Poor Marianne, JA does weave a web for a trying prosepct.I am sure that would be very heartfelt on her side. I do love S&S for all of its endearing/funny characters Mr. Palmer and Mrs Jennings and even Charlotte,but I think you have to be in good mood to watch."}, {"response": 67, "author": "alix", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (17:48)", "body": "Just wondering, did anyone else notice how the parrot snapped at Lucy Steele in that one scene? I just wanted to know that I was'nt the only one to be tickled by that. :-)"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (23:25)", "body": "I had to watch S&S three times before I even liked it. P&P has me so spoiled. I agree with all of you that Emma Thompson is truly a great actress and a talented director and anything else she wants to be ---but -I do not like her as a romantic leading lady. She just looks much too sensible. On the third go around with the video I found how delightful it really is."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (23:27)", "body": "Somehow missed the parrot scene, but I did just watch S&S for the fourth time and saw some things new to me. In the scene where Marianne is so disgusted with Edward because his poetry reading is not up to her passionate standards, when she begins her own violent reading, she wakes Margaret, who is dozing against her mother's shoulder in the background. A couple other things which struck me this time around: Fanny, even though a witch spelled with a \"b\", is in some ways as funny as Mrs. Elton: \"People always live forever when there is an annuity to be paid them.\" In answer to Edward's statement that the Dashwoods have just lost their father and their lives will never be the same: \"That is no excuse.\" Marianne foreshadows her own illness and almost death: \"To die for love! What could be more glorious!\" I am undone tonight!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (05:03)", "body": "Yeah, the damn parrot was the inspiration for the humor in austen adaptations topic...I loved it too..."}, {"response": 71, "author": "alix", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (18:35)", "body": "Claudia, thanks for pointing all those out- I might just watch it again to catch a few more little background things. Fantastic, aren't they?"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Saman", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (13:50)", "body": "I saw S&S for the first time last night and have just read all 71 posts (medals appreciated...;). I loved it. With a few exceptions of course; I'll get to those later. For a feature film length adaptaion it was great, although now I can understand the two women sitting in front of my friend at the movies: \"I didn't understand that\". I wouldn't have either if I hadn't read the book. I'm not complaining - I think the least you can do if you're going to watch a JA adaptation is read the book :) I was a bit sceptical of Hugh Grant before I saw it. No more - he was wonderful (I tried to ignore the eyelid fluttering but even that was endearing). One of the most frustrating things was spending 2 hours trying to figure out where I'd seen these actors before, prompting the remark from my friend that I watch too much British stuff on TV. I finally figured out that Mrs Dashwood was indeed the Duchess of Duke Street, and Sir John was the old vet from \"All Creatures Great and Small\". Hugh Laurie had me laughing just because I was expecting him to be funny ;) Wasn't mrs Dashwood (the older one) supposed to be prone to taking to bed with the most trivial of complaints (a la Mrs Bennet). I like her a lot more than in the book - maybe I haven't interpreted the book properly. The other thing that annoyed me was the too-obvious weather imagery - we were predicting when the clouds were going to lift etc, and all the countryside scenes with sheep (triggered daggy thoughts). Favourite scene: Lucy telling Fanny that she's engaged to Edward - LOL! Sorry for my post being so long..."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (02:38)", "body": "Apparently, a few of the sheep passed out in the heat of filming...somebody thought that unsheared, undocked sheep were essential to the atmosphere, and so...well, whatever...;)"}, {"response": 74, "author": "janea", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (12:17)", "body": "Hello, where is everybody? Is the discussion over?"}, {"response": 75, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (01:54)", "body": "Jane: Hello, where is everybody? Is the discussion over? Jane, our initial discussion of this movie took place 6-7 weeks ago. If youhave more to add to the discussion above, by all means, jump on in! I'm sure someone will join you! ;-)"}, {"response": 76, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (13:09)", "body": "By the way, I just read today that they are putting out a letterbox (wide-screen) version of S&S on video tape (April 22, I think)."}, {"response": 77, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (22:18)", "body": "Jane, I'd love to discuss S&S further -- you start and I'll follow!"}, {"response": 78, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "Anybody who ever wants to revive a topic on this page, please do. Likewise, newcomers who see something on the archives page that sounds interesting, bring it back. The best way might be to choose 2 or 3 comments from the previous discussion and paste them into a new topic here along with your take on the subject. Ask me or Myretta or any of the regulars for help if you need it."}, {"response": 79, "author": "janea", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (05:39)", "body": "Thank you so much Susan! When I saw that the latest post was from the middle of Feb, I felt I hade missed all the fun. But can the discussion ever end? That\ufffds what I like so much. There\ufffds always new things, new lovely details to discuss. In S&S, Ellinor is the sense and Marianne is the sensibility. But how about the end? Is it the same then? Ellinor marries for love, but does Marianne really love Brandon? Or does she marry \"for sense\"?"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (23:23)", "body": "Jane, I've always felt that Marianne doesn't really love Brandon, at least not in the passionate way she's always wanted to love someone. But she has seen where that got her, and she probably doesn't want to be hurt again. She knows that Brandon loves her and will be good to her (and the fact that he has money can't hurt). I think she definitely marries 'for sense.'"}, {"response": 81, "author": "janea", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (02:50)", "body": "Susan, I think so to. In a way I feel sorry for Marianne. I don\ufffdt think she will be really happy in her marriage. And I think she will go on loving Willoughby as long as she lives. Isn\ufffdt it strange, all Jane Austen\ufffds \"leading ladies\" marry for love - except Marianne. She is the only one who\ufffds not getting the one she really wants."}, {"response": 82, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (08:49)", "body": "I disagree -- I beleve that Marianne married \"for sense\" and \"for love\" -- True, it is a different love than she held for Willowby, but a deep love just the same. I stongly identified with Marianne, as I too seemed to always fall head over heals for those beautiful deep passionate men, but found \"real\" love with a man very much like Col Brandon...kind, caring, and comfortable."}, {"response": 83, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (13:25)", "body": "Candace -- I agree with you. Jane Austen doesn't show us Marianne falling in love with Col Brandon, but she says that Marianne loved him, completely. And, don't many women get over the passion of a first love which doesn't last? At least the recent movie shows us Col Brandon reading poetry to Marianne, and with a great sense of feeling for the words. Even though the age difference between Alan Rickman & Kate Winslet was about 10 years more than the age difference is supposed to be in the book, I found Rickman very believeable as someone in love with (and eventually being loved by) Kate Winslet's Marianne. Having a real face for this character made all the difference for me."}, {"response": 84, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (15:15)", "body": "Jane Austen stated her position in chapter 46 of Pride and Prejudice : ``If gratitude and esteem are good foundations of affection, Elizabeth's change of sentiment will be neither improbable nor faulty. But if otherwise, if the regard springing from such sources is unreasonable or unnatural, in comparison of what is so often described as arising on a first interview with its object, and even before two words have been exchanged, nothing can be said in her defence, except that she had given somewhat of a trial to the latter method in her partiality for Wickham, and that its ill-success might perhaps authorise her to seek the other less interesting mode of attachment.''"}, {"response": 85, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (21:23)", "body": "Indeed, Henry, that passage could be applied to Marianne's affairs of the heart as well, although Marianne had a stronger passion for Willoughby than Elizabeth had for Wickham."}, {"response": 86, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "I agree with you Candace that Marianne married for sense & for love. I think many of us have tall, dark, and handsome men in our past who are exciting and like to live life a bit on the edge. But our \"sensible\" side tells us that they may not be the most stable or responsible mates. I feel Marianne will always feel a certain love for Willoughby but she has chosen a very well rounded love in a life with Colonel Brandon."}, {"response": 87, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (12:58)", "body": "I don't think you can equate Elizabeth's feelings for Darcy with Marianne's for Col. Brandon, because the two women are so different. I have no trouble believing that when Elizabeth fell in love, it was \"the real thing,\" because this is the kind of love for which she is best suited, but Marianne is a different kettle of fish. Col. Brandon may be the kind of man she needed--stable, affectionate, fatherly--and I think she will always be fond of him, but her nature is given to emotional seizures and I can' help but feel that she will develop crushes on other men, Willoughby types, for the rest of her life. Not that I think she'll do anything silly like running off with one, but she'll always be susceptible."}, {"response": 88, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (13:09)", "body": "So Marianne should keep her infatuation in the same way we do here :), intense but safe :)"}, {"response": 89, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (19:52)", "body": "A very sound idea Johanne!"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (23:29)", "body": "]Col. Brandon may be the kind of man she needed--stable, affectionate, fatherly--and I think she will always be fond of him, but her nature is given to emotional seizures and I can' help but feel that she will develop crushes on other men, Willoughby types, for the rest of her life. My feelings exactly, Anne3! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 147, "subject": "Jane Austen Villains!  Boo!  Hiss!", "response_count": 59, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (16:21)", "body": "I still think Mary Musgrove tries my patience more than all the rest, and it's especially vexing that no one even attempts to set her straight. They just roll their eyes and make gestures to one another. She is not dangerous in any way, but she is definitely more annoying than the others. She is the one that I would have to hold my hand down to keep from smacking!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:11)", "body": "I vote for Lucy Steele in S&S as one of the nastiest pieces of catty womanhood out in Austen land. She is much worse in the book, even, than in the adaptation (although the actress -- Imogene Stubbs ? -- did a marvelous job). Granted she has no power, but after she will after she marries Robert and makes up with Mrs F."}, {"response": 3, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:12)", "body": "I vote for Lucy Steele in S&S as one of the nastiest pieces of catty womanhood out in Austen land. She is much worse in the book, even, than in the adaptation (although the actress -- Imogene Stubbs ? -- did a marvelous job). Granted she has no power, but after she will after she marries Robert and makes up with Mrs F."}, {"response": 4, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:14)", "body": "Sorry about the double post -- my local server disconnected me as I submitted my response, and when I was initially reconnected it did not show up! Oh well, it is far from a record! ; )"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:49)", "body": "For me, no character in Austen is worse than Aunt Norris in Mansfield Park. She is ab-so-lute-ly UNBEARABLE! When I reread the book last year, I sometimes had to put it down during her scenes because I just couldn't take any more of her. She's like a combination of Lady Catherine (domineeringness), Mrs. Bennet (busybodyness) and Mr. Collins (snobbery & servility). What makes it worse is that she's not a comic character--you have to take her straight. She's the only Austen character I've ever wanted t murder."}, {"response": 6, "author": "alix", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "I've always thought Mr. Elton to be the most dispicable of Jane's villans in the way that he treated Harriot, and I feel that he got what he deserved with his wife. Mrs. Elton holds the distinction of being the only villain that I wanted to smack more than Caroline Bingley- and that is saying something, even though Lucy Steele does come in a close second!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "On another note-how about Henry's father in Northanger Abbey: Cold, indifferent, insufferable man who sends Catherine off in an unescorted coach the minute he finds out she's not really an heiress. In addition, the way he treats his own daughter, never loving her as much as on the day of her nuptials. I hate that man! And, I completely agree about Fanny, who along with the actress who played Caroline Bingley, would get my vote in any future re-make of Cinderella as the two ugly stepsisters. I thought it was a real nice touch at the end of S&S to have Fanny scrambling with the others for the gold coins. Nice commentary on her character."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (21:01)", "body": "Anne3, you forgot miserliness in your catalogue of Mrs. Norris' faults, but I agree with you. She is absolutely the worst. Maybe we could have her as the mother of Caroline Bingley and Fanny--i.e. Cinderella's step-mother and ugly step-sisters!!!!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (21:39)", "body": "Sometimes I skim through Emma, just to read the Mrs. Elton passages, MP for Aunt Norris, and NA for Isabella Thorpe. Does anyone else ever get fascinated with the bad guys? (I also once watched Sleeping with the enemy on fast forward, watching only the scenes with both Julia Roberts and the husband.)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "Katy -- what an interesting method of (re)watching movies. The only time I did that was for \"Die Hard\" since I was only interested in the Alan Rickman villain. (Bruce Willis I can genereally do without.) I agree w/ above comments re Aunt Norris. If she were rich and/or titled, I believe she could give Lady Catherine a run for biggest snob."}, {"response": 11, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (22:04)", "body": "A notable resemblance to Miss Bingley, Mrs Dashwood and her lovely sidekick:"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Karen", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (00:01)", "body": "Kathleen - thanks for admitting how you watch Die Hard. It was on one of the networks last week and I kept chuckling thinking someone watches this movie for Alan Rickman. He was the best part of the movie!! I have not gotten to MP nor NH so from my knowledge I can only vote for Fanny Dashwood. Harriet Walter did an excellent job in playing her and to my horror Fanny was even worse in the novel. Elizabeth Eliott also needs a good smack. I agree with Cheryl that it is a testament to JA that she creates characters so real that you do want to harm them."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (11:43)", "body": "The one I want to smack, or at least shake untill his teeth rattle , is Edmund Bertram, about the time he tries to get Fanny to accept Henry Crawford. The man is such a blind, stupid TWIT!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "\"The one I want to smack, or at least shake untill his teeth rattle , is Edmund Bertram, about the time he tries to get Fanny to accept Henry Crawford. The man is such a blind, stupid TWIT!\" But at that time he was in love with Mary. Did you expect him to notice one woman when he was infatuated with another?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (19:18)", "body": "I must still cast my vote for Caroline Bingley. She is such a nasty, jealous woman; such an intolerable snob that I wish I had a punching bag with Anna Chancellor's likeness! \"Shocking! \"Abominable!\" KA-POW!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (22:29)", "body": "If I were an artist (can't draw a line as it is) I'd paint Caroline Bingley's face and Fanny's face and Mrs. Norris' face on a tennis ball, one on each. Then I'd really whack those balls across the net!!;-)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (22:35)", "body": "\"I agree with Cheryl that it is a testament to JA that she creates characters so real that you do want to harm them.\" ROTFLOL. I sometimes imagine continuations whose sole point is the dishing out a little harm to those in need of a little."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (01:05)", "body": "Ok guys! I didn't start this topic to see who could come up with the most painful way to hurt an Austen Villain! Put away those knives and guns! ;-) Why do we hate these people? Of course it has to do with their actions, but it is beyond that. Are there villains we love to hate? The first time I read Emma I loathed Mrs. Elton...so much that I was reluctant to reread the novel because I didn't want to meet Mrs. E again! But I did and was surprised to find that she didn't even appear until the second volume! She loomed so large in my memory that I was astounded to find that she wasn't in every scene! Now I've kind of grown fond of Mrs. Elton...I can laugh at her as I believe Jane Austen intended me to...even though I still wish Emma would put her in her place when she's at Jane Farifax's and Mrs. E. is making ludicrously un veiled comments about a certain Dr.'s restorative powers...I want Emma to let her know, very nicely of course, that she has known of the engagement long before Mrs. Elton has! See, there I go again! Mrs. E. does it to me every time! ;-)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (01:17)", "body": "Mrs. Elton merely made me laugh, and was a foil for Emma's indignations. I particularly like her astonishment that Mrs. E. would call Mr. Knightley \"Knightley\" upon so little acquaintance. Emma's reaction revealed her feelings for Mr. Knightley before she knew she had them. And as for Mr. Knightley, he also found Mrs. E. an endless source of amusement. Love his comment when she tells him that she cannot host the party on her own (I think!): \" Can you not, Mrs. Elton? I would have thought it well within your purview.\" And when he tells Emma that she chose for Mr. Elton much better than he chose for himself."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (06:35)", "body": "At least JA does not merely torture us with these characters. She let us live vicariously through Darcy's put downs of Caroline, Knightly's perfect way of handling Mrs E, &tc."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (07:48)", "body": "Inko: If I were an artist . . . I'd paint Caroline Bingley's face and Fanny's face and Mrs. Norris' face on a tennis ball, one on each. Then I'd really whack those balls across the net!!;-) Well, I think that all of us have doing a pretty good job of whacking all of them across the Net, and without the tennis balls!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (11:51)", "body": "I think the reason we all want to slap Caroline is -- she is standing in the way of our most cherished wish: to see Lizzy & Darcy get together. She is the book's ultimate symbol, along with Lady C., for the snobbishness & superiority of society women in general; she is sharp-tongued and insulting whereas Lizzy's wit generally doesn't harm others; she is consumed by jealousy for an object she really doesn't care about."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "Caroline didn't insight this in me,because you knew that Darcy could see past her,because she never knew his true feelings for Elizabeth. The part in the video what really gets me mad is that at Pemberely everything was going so smoothly for Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy,only to find that Lydia and Wickhams affair would add again to their seperation."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (13:46)", "body": "You should be over on the pun thread, Anne3 -- good one! My dislike of Caroline is that she isn't willing to compete for Darcy on equal terms. Instead of trying to win him by making herself more desirable, she simply puts Lizzy down every chance she gets, thereby merely provoking Darcy and ruining her own chances (if indeed she ever had any). I, too, found the scene at the Inn where you know things are going to get rocky again extremely vexing ... sort of a \"now what feeling."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "It is ironic that Caroline B. uses the same paltry form that she critisizes Elizabeth for at Netherfield: That of knocking down others to make ones self look good. I think these villians are easier to take when we know they cannot really hurt our herione. Mary cannot do as much harm to Anne as Elizabeth can (thus I want to slap Elizabeth) Fanny can do more to Elinore than Lucy can. No one can change Edwards good impression, but can have other things happen, as did. (Slap: Fanny) Caroline gets hers from Darcy and Lizzie could verbally slap her if she wanted to (Slap: Lady C.) Do you see my point?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Karen", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "Yes, Dina, I see your point and though I too want to Lady C., I don't think I consider her someone who really hurt Lizzy. I know that Lizzy is fearful that Lady C. will really influence Darcy but to me she is similar to Mary Musgrove just much more vexing (as far as actual power to harm). I find this topic really interesting because many critiques of JA's novel focuse on the men as villians. Needless to say, I find these women much more troublesome than their male counterpoints. And from her writings, I would venture to say that JA considered the women more officious as well."}, {"response": 27, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (11:33)", "body": "Absolutely, Karen. To me, a Miss Bingley is actually more odious than a Mr. Wickham. He's more of a standard-issue blackguard, whereas Miss B. is such a harpy. I also think that if Lady Catherine had wanted to, she _could_ have harmed Lizzy, especially before the marriage. What if she had arranged a \"good marriage\" for L. with someone else, then used her considerable influence on Mr. and Mrs. Bennet to \"make\" Lizzy accept? Sounds kind of far-fetched, I know, but they _were_ in kind of desperate finan ial straights. Heck, she might have offered to keep Longbourne in the B. family if only Lizzy DIDN'T marry Darcy."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (11:35)", "body": "It seems all her \"villlians\" (male and female) are officious. I don't see too many men villians. Most of her really rotten men cause bitter things to happen to those close to our heroine - like Willoughby and Wickham - except maybe the father in NA. The men with direct impact on the heroine- Elton, the piano buyer in Emma and Collins - aren't really evil . Am I forgetting anyone?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (11:57)", "body": "What about Lady Susan? She's pretty bad."}, {"response": 30, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (11:57)", "body": "Lord, Fanny Dashwood is an unpleasant lady! Villainous because of her influence over her husband and the cause of the poor treatment of the Dashwood widow and orphans. Lady Catherine is extraordinarily nasty to Eliz. Bennet. Rude to the point of unbelief. Mary Musgrove makes you want to shout at her to shut up! On the male side. Wickham is both sexual and financial predator. Ditto Willougby. Henry Thorpe, is braggart and clownish boor extraordinaire. General Tilney,an unfeeling, snobbish example of the Whig aristocracy of the time. Ditto Mr Elliot. Worst lady villian: Fanny Dashwood. Worst male villian: Willougby."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (12:27)", "body": "#29 _Amy I have always had a sneaking regard for Lady Susan!She is so utterly ruthless! What a dreadful mother! Yet, in her own way, a survivor. D'you think she's a prototype Mary Crawford, Amy?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (12:59)", "body": "] #29 _Amy I have always had a sneaking regard for Lady Susan!She is so utterly ruthless! What a dreadful mother! Yet, in her own way, a survivor. D'you think she's a prototype Mary Crawford, Amy? ___ What a great question! Have to think about that one."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (15:29)", "body": "What is your definition of a villian? I think of them as being selfish beyond all reasonable proportion, not just self promoting. Lady Susan? How embarrassing, it must be this head cold."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (00:04)", "body": "Dina, I would add to your definition trying to harm our heroine. Yes the villian is selfish and self promoting but they do things to explicitly hurt the protagonist."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Dina", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "I guess I was thinking that selfishness would include hurting others, but it doesn't necessarily. All of Willoughby's, Wickams, Fanny D.'s, Caroline B.'s, and Mr. Tilney's action (to name a few) all seem to be self centered, but this selfishness leads to hurting (in some cases many) other people. Karen, do you think their actions are explicitly to hurt or just a result of their selfishness?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "In Caroline's case, I have always figured she can't help herself. She's as obsessed with Darcy as Darcy is with Lizzy."}, {"response": 37, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (15:13)", "body": "In Caroline's case, I have always figured she can't help herself. She's as obsessed with Darcy as Darcy is with Lizzy. And when it comes to obsession, we know whereof we speak."}, {"response": 38, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:05)", "body": "Darn right Myretta! I think we've already delved into this before, but let me ask this: Do you guys feel that Miss Bingley had any serious feelings for Darcy? Or did she just look at him and see a great estate & Pemberley?"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "]Or did she just look at him and see a great estate & Pemberley? This in the side that gets my vote. Caroline doesn't seem to understand Darcy at all, given the time she has spent in 'house parties' with him I can't believe she's ever looked at him as a person, she seems to regard him as just a cipher for status and wealth."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:54)", "body": "Ditto, Anna. Caroline only saw Darcy as a status symbol. I think she was quite incapable of feeling any deep emotion, such as love!!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "Deep emotion for Duckface. Love, no. Longing and desire -- even if just for the idea of Darcy and his status and possessions, maybe."}, {"response": 42, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (19:27)", "body": "Always the duckface's advocate, I must agrue that the lady probably felt what she believed was love - and few of us can love more than that. This was not Mr. Collins after all. She knew him well, he was very handsome and clever, she had a more comfortable relationship with him than many characters in the novel. She probably, like Elizabeth Elliot, \"liked the man for himself and still more being (his) father's heir\". Of course the quality of her love for Darcy could never measure up to ours!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (22:00)", "body": "What a lovely way of putting it , Katy! Do you ever feel at all sorry for her?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (23:25)", "body": "Actually Caroline, yes, I do feel a little sorry for her when she goads Darcy into praising Elizabeth at Pemberly. I believed she knew even as she spoke that she was going too far, and, even so, she did not think Darcy would go as far as he did in his response."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (00:34)", "body": "Dina - I think the villians so things, which are very selfish, to explicitly harm the heroine. For instance, Fanny D. tries to separate Elinor and Edward because she is a meanie (arrogant and vicious). Most of her actions towards to the Dashwoods are mean spirites slights or affronts. These actions may spring from her pettiness but are done deliberately. Caroline Bingley - Katy is much more generous to her than I am. She knew she was pushing Darcy too far and knew he was fond of her. She is a harpy!! But I do agree with Katy that Caroline believes she loves Darcy yet doesn't reallly love anyone but herself."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (01:41)", "body": "Karen, I must respectfully disagree that Fanny Dashwood tries to separate Elinor and Edward because she is a meanie. She simply believes, in her own way, that Edward must marry better than Elinor, being the head of their family and the heir to the wealth. Mind, I am not excusing any of her actions, just defending her motive. Again, I think Caroline finds it very difficult to believe that Darcy is seriously attracted to a country girl like Lizzy. She goads him because she desperately wants him to tell her that it can't be true. But I also believe that she loves his money and status far more than she loves him."}, {"response": 47, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (11:22)", "body": "It seems like we're all in agreement -- Caroline is in love with Darcy's wallet, not with him!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Dina", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (13:20)", "body": "It may be just this week, but I still see Austen in Regency England being rather daring in some of her novels by having adultry, fornication, embezzlement, but that all these things are based on selfishness, which makes them mean-spririted, deceitful, and down right evil. I guess this comes from years of religious instruction - all evil-doing can be narrowed down to selfishness. However, I do believe there are some people who are just plain old evil, but I just don't think Jane is that \"dark\". I agree wit most of what is said, but I guess I am trying to narrow it down to one common denominator."}, {"response": 49, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (15:02)", "body": "She might be in love with his wallet, but having a gorgeous looking man at her side probably doesn't hurt either ;) I too agree with Dina, her vilains don't do much arm, their not satanic-obscure sided vilains"}, {"response": 50, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (21:32)", "body": "Not just the wallet, but also the prestige - the social standing - the chance to be mistress of Pemberley."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (23:59)", "body": "Susan - I understand and agree with your description of Fanny's motives but how she carries out her actions; she is just downright cruel. Her comments to the Dashwoods are so snide! Perhaps it is possible to think meanly of thoses around you are still treat them as human beings but typically once you classify people as beneath you, you are exposed as the beast you are."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (00:14)", "body": "Karen, I totally agree that she is not a nice person, just disagree that her meanness is her motive in relation to Edward and Elinor. She is obviously not an empathetic being, but her behavior to Lucy in finding she is engaged to Edward shows that she has a particular type of person in mind for Edward, and neither Elinor nor Lucy is it. She is certainly not someone I would want to have to deal with. BTW, I particularly liked your comments in relation to GWTW. I was lurking and enjoying the conversation."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (07:46)", "body": "Mrs. Elton's need for attention strikes me as particularly male-oriented. She is a bit of a nymphomaniac, if you ask me...;)"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (09:29)", "body": "Why Kali, you are on to something ! She is always making remarks like 'the old dear has a crush on me' about Mr Woodhouse of all men.And she is rating(?) Frank Churchill rather high at the ball.As if anybody wanted her opinion on men. And she is attracted to Knigthley too, not just the wallet and prestige?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (07:44)", "body": "The old \"Duckface & Lady Catherine\" topic has been archived, but since there were a few recent messages, we'll just combine the thread into this topic. Topic 24 of 218 [austen]: Duckface and Lady Catherine Response 102 of 108: Carolyn Esau (Carolyn) * Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (09:02) * 22 lines ]But would the 10 minutes of silence have filmed well? ;-) How about this: (Elizabeth and Mrs. Bennet in Mrs. B's room.) E: Mama, Mr. Darcy had proposed and I have accepted. Mrs. B: (Silent and totally still) E: Mama, did you hear, Mr. Darcy and I are to be married. Mrs. B: (Remains silent and still) E: Mama, are you all right? Mama? Mama! Mrs. B: Lips moving, but no sound coming out--Mr. Darcy, 10,000 a year, 10,000 a year, 10,000 a year ..... At this point E either A) runs some smelling salts under her nose or B) dumps a pitcher of water over her (the choice is yours). Mrs. B thus recovers and goes into her pin money speech. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 24 of 218 [austen]: Duckface and Lady Catherine Response 103 of 108: kathleen (elder) * Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (12:12) * 2 lines Carolyn -- wonderfully imagined. I personally like the pitcher of water, but I imagine Elizabeth would be nice and use the smelling salts. And don't forget, Mrs B has to fidget, get up and sit down again! I shall just imagine Allison Steadman here. ;.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 24 of 218 [austen]: Duckface and Lady Catherine Response 104 of 108: Ann (Ann) * Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (13:21) * 1 lines I still like the idea of Mrs. Bennet being played by Eric Idle or Michael Palin. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 24 of 218 [austen]: Duckface and Lady Catherine Response 105 of 108: Susan Christie (Susan) * Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (15:12) * 3 lines #102 At this point E either A) runs some smelling salts under her nose or B) dumps a pitcher ofwater over her (the choice is yours). Carolyn, how evil of you to give us that choice! You know how most of us would want to choose, don't you? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 24 of 218 [austen]: Duckface and Lady Catherine Response 106 of 108: Carolyn Esau (Carolyn) * Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (06:58) * 4 lines #105 Carolyn, how evil of you to give us that choice! You know how most of us would want to choose, don't you? Susan, I am sure we are ladylike and will do the \"right\" thing. ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 24 of 218 [austen]: Duckface and Lady Catherine Response 107 of 108: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (10:58) * 1 lines I'm still fond of my idea that Mrs. Bennet should be played by Hugh Grant. Such palpitations of his heart & flutterings! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 24 of 218 [austen]: Duckface and Lady Catherine Response 108 of 108: Anna (Anna) * Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (16:41) * 3 lines ] Mrs. Bennet should be played by Hugh Grant. Such palpitations of his heart & flutterings! the very thing!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (03:33)", "body": "If I had to be crossed in love at least once in my life, I would want it to be bya Willoughby. The perfect villian, he would have succeeded in dissolving every ounce of trust a person had, and that's likely to last for life too."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (04:00)", "body": "Right on, Ann2...the worst is the part where she attempts to hoist herself onto Mr. Knightley as Lady Patroness of the Strawberry-picking party..."}, {"response": 58, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:40)", "body": "\"perhaps not\" mmmm....mmmm....mmmm"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:42)", "body": "What, Cindy dearest? ;) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 148, "subject": "I met a guy  guess what his name is(lets play)", "response_count": 58, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (16:20)", "body": "Colin Firth"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (16:47)", "body": "Ciaran Hinds or Liam Neeson"}, {"response": 3, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (18:26)", "body": "Fitzwilliam Darcy"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (19:29)", "body": "Rupert Graves"}, {"response": 5, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "Kenneth Braugh !! ------------- I know a man who shoots but does not kill - and cannot drive very well at all. Who is he?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:46)", "body": "Laura, you give us ONE clue \"coming from Ireland\" and I know you're in Boston. Do you know how many guys from Ireland there is in Boston ? So who else as not been mentionned, Pierce Brosnan comes from Ireland. Is this the name of an actor or a musician, any other clue ? And think 007 would fit your description Katy, not sure you can count his driving as very well ;)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (13:30)", "body": "Katy, does he shoot goals?And play golf badly? Other Irishmen- Peter o'Toole,The Dubliners, The Fighting Irish, Mad Mick Mcconnaghy from Ballyglogglgga,..... Laura, the list goes on and on........."}, {"response": 8, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (14:01)", "body": "Okay, I did give a clue. I said I harrassed you all. Guess what his name is. And it is no one famous (unfortunately!). That is the only clue. No to Rupert, Pierce, think cinema."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (14:11)", "body": "William Collins?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Dina", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (14:36)", "body": "DeBergh? Bingley? Though I like Collins."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:32)", "body": "\"Maurice\" or \"Hamlet\" irish last name,maybe?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "]I know a man who shoots but does not kill- and can't drive very well at all. President Ford? I was thinking along the same way as Caroline. Photographer,basketball player ect. and golfer or race car driver. Then I thought of Pres. Ford and his bad golf games. Do you shoot a golf ball or drive it?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (19:20)", "body": "My pal is a character in a book we have talked about from time to time."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "He wouldn't be in the habit of overturning his gig all the time, would he, Katy?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (22:44)", "body": "I saw a homepage of a little girl once, and guess what was her first name?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (22:49)", "body": "Webigail?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (23:20)", "body": "Aye, Caroline, he was indeed."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (08:47)", "body": "Ayelet: I saw a homepage of a little girl once, and guess what was her first name? Ayelet?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (09:08)", "body": "Okay, give, Ayelet. Give us the URL."}, {"response": 20, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (11:32)", "body": "Donna had it. It was Maurice. Sorry thought it would be a fun game took you guys long enough. You know how much I love that movie and book. I saw DANTE's PEAK yesterday. Awesome special effects, and Pierce Brosnan"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (12:18)", "body": "Nice one, Katy. And now I have one, just for you:_ I know a little girl who hides letters from the eyes of her parents, and now she doesn't know what to do!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (18:08)", "body": "Caroline - could be Kitty Bennet?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (08:28)", "body": "Anne3: No Meggin: No Amy: I forgot it You'll NEVER guess! Giving up?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (11:06)", "body": "Ayelet: Margaret (Dashwood)? If not, how about a another hint to narrow the possibilities?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (14:21)", "body": "Alice? (As in Lewis Carroll. . . )"}, {"response": 26, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (22:35)", "body": "Nice try, but you must look for a REALLY crazy name, you won't belive when I'll tell you, but it's true."}, {"response": 27, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "Nabucodonozor"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:02)", "body": "Johanne, if that's correct, you must be a genius! ;-)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:13)", "body": "Oups mispelled : Nabuchodonosor or Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon No genius Margeret :)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "Oups mispelled : Nabuchodonosor or Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon No genius Margaret :)"}, {"response": 31, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (06:58)", "body": "Is that adressed to me? Anyway, it's wrong, am I to tell, or do you want to try more?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (07:54)", "body": "We want another hint, Ayelet. Is the name Austen-related?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "LOL Johanne, that's a nice name for a girl;-) a REALLY crazy name Cinderella Rockefeller ? Caroline Darcy?? Cleopatra ? Darcyanna? Fitzwilhelmina? And Caroline little girl who hides letters from the eyes of her parents that young girl in Valmont?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (21:43)", "body": "Ann-no! Katy guessed it. It was Kitty Bennet! Katy knew I was writing a fanfiction scene about letters Lydia wrote to Kitty from Brighton!She helped me comb through the book, which does say that Kitty received letters that she wouldn't show her parents, and that her mother did allow her some privacy, unlike her treatment of Jane!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "C'mon, Ayelet!We give up!And while we are waiting for her: I know a man whose ship is broken up for scrap, has a seat near Gateshead, in the county of__________ , is a medieval bad-guy knight,and was once a hunch-back and a king........,much to the approval of his countrymen."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (00:33)", "body": "Caroline, wild guess...was it Charles Laughton??"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (08:19)", "body": "Nope.We have drooled about him a bit Cheryl. YOU, me and a few others.And Johanne has pictures up."}, {"response": 38, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (08:47)", "body": "Ann2, you were CLOSE, the name is simply DARCY No, really, I'm NOT kidding, I have no way to prove it except my word as a gentleman (Oops, Gentlegirl, that gentlepepole thing is so confusing)."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (08:51)", "body": "Gentlegirl, I see you peeked into chat when no one was home. Be careful in there, baby. Dont' go at night, okay?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (11:30)", "body": "Caroline: We have drooled about him a bit Cheryl. YOU, me and a few others.And Johanne has pictures up. Oh Caroline! I thought you were going to narrow it down for me! ;-)"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (12:28)", "body": "Okay, I thought I had narrowed it down! Leave out the seat near Gateshead, it's probably a bit confusing.You said something about twofer, Cheryl?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (13:42)", "body": "Caroline the only one I can think of is John Lynch, Hunchback from Secret Garden, don't know about the king part. Well am I correct?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (14:48)", "body": "Wild guess, Alan Rickman, he played a nice villain in the middle-ages :)"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (15:27)", "body": "a \"twofer\"...hmmmm.....hold on..."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (15:43)", "body": "ok, Caroline, what about Cairan Hines? that was my first thought from the \"ship broken up for scrap\" hint, but I couldn't come up with a hunchback role."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (16:17)", "body": "] couldn't come up with a hunchback role. __ But Hinds would do a pitiable one. I don't even think I would like to see it."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (18:52)", "body": "Well done Cheryl! CH it is. The ship is the ASP.The estate near Gateshead is MR Rochester's, the wicked Medeival Knight is Wotsit de Thingummy on Ivanhoe, and the hunchback king, Richard III (the only WAS in all those IS's) he did on stage, at short notice, and to rave reviews in the Irish Papers, according to the blurb put up by Johanne. Now call me a ratbag."}, {"response": 48, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "Caroline: Now call me a ratbag. Caroline, my dear, you are a ratbag!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (22:16)", "body": "Boy was I way off, let me lurk some more so I get how its done duh!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (22:51)", "body": "Amy, it wasn't night here, but I won't anymore anyway."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (23:24)", "body": "Oh, baby, please don't think we would not love to talk to you. But can I be your web mom, and just suggest that you stay away from our 10 pm to 4 am hours in there?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (23:25)", "body": "Oh, Ayelet, guess what? Good news! I think my 12-year old has finally turned the corner on reading. You know, I was worried he did not enjoy reading for pleasure? Well, tonight, he made me take him to the library because he left a book at school and could not wait to see what happened. A good sign, no?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (09:05)", "body": "I am proud Aylet, I think it was your saying: 'you wont believe it when I tell you'that made me think it was something like Darcyanna. It was her first name do you think, Darcy ??"}, {"response": 54, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (19:49)", "body": "My daughter has a friend named Darcy Elizabeth. guess how long it took me to discover her mother was a JA fan?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "Amy: I sure do! I remember one night I couldn't sleep becouse I left a book I read at my grandmas' Katy: half a second?"}, {"response": 56, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (01:02)", "body": "Ayelet - exactly! She has a brother named Brandon, BTW."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:49)", "body": "] couldn't sleep becouse I left a book I read at my grandmas' ____ So, Ayelet, is your whole extended family in Israel?"}, {"response": 58, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:49)", "body": "Except of a few uncles and aunts, we went to the USA because my father wanted to learn there, it was before I was born. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 149, "subject": "Gallery Upstairs II", "response_count": 11, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (00:33)", "body": "Here is Hil's latest, Darcy in implied buttercups."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (00:38)", "body": "And here is the old that used to be in the thread that's missing:"}, {"response": 3, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (10:15)", "body": "Wow! What talent we have...great job Hilary!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "Oh, Hilary! Really great and so sensitive that new one 'in the buttercups'(?) Would this be before or after one of his much spoken of swims in pond? You express yourself drawing, others try writing...anything to be allowed to dwell on much beloved subject."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (17:39)", "body": "Thanks Ann and Linda. Swim? could be either, Ann, but I must admit to having other activities in mind."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (01:35)", "body": "Maybe 'a swim in the pond' in a figurative sense might hint at 'other activities to be added to our list of addict tongue, like daggy, and spring tingle and are there more? Bye the way I have been meaning to ask Hilary and Amy if they ever found a word for that stupid manner of Mr Collins to silence himself, bringing fingers to his lips(yeek). If not, may I suggest 'the humble hush' ? (maybe humble-hush as a verb too?)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "Haven't come across 'spring tingle', yet! As for Mr. Collins, we decided schnozzle-shooshing was quite promising! Though the humble-hush is good and a lot easier to spell!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (08:58)", "body": "our list of addict tongue, like daggy, and spring tingle and are there more? __ Your own drug name, Ann, what was it?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (13:08)", "body": "How could you ever forget Amy, are you not on it any more? Priprejudin is most beneficial, even in large and repeated doses. Hilary told me of that Collins schnozle - no what was it? ; sorry it was rather difficult and I had one in mind, a synonym if you like: the humblehush ."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "Oh, blunder indeed. This is what happens when you visit at long intervals and only read the new responses. I come out a complete moron here. How delightful!!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "Costume question: He never wore that cloak in P&P2, but is pictured in it here and in a snap in \"Making of\" (p. 105). In the \"Making Of\" picture you can see the cloak and the clasp quite clearly, and to me it looks very much like cloaks wore by the officers in the show (small picture of Wickham p. 90). Would they have put him in one of the officers cloaks for publicity stills, or would all the mens cloaks have looked similar? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 15, "subject": "pin-money & special license", "response_count": 11, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (20:55)", "body": "I have explanations for these words near the bottom of the file http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/thresist.html By the way, the Pool book is apparently not the most accurate and definitve source..."}, {"response": 2, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (09:19)", "body": "Thank you, Zimei. But do tell also what Jane Austen ate, etc., so we all know what to do in that area (and any other JA tidbits from Pool's book) along with wearing our new hairdos, muslin gowns, handwriting retraining, accent, daily walks to town or gentlemen with letters under trees, etc. Pretty please?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (14:47)", "body": "Thank you Zimei. But I must agree with Cecily. Please tell all..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (02:30)", "body": "At the risk of seeming negative, \"What Jane Austen Ate ...\" contains some innacuracies and doesn't seperate JA's time (regency) from Dickens (Victorian), the later had much stricter rules of propriety, in the upper classes."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (09:12)", "body": ": But do tell also what Jane Austen ate, et Cecily and Leslie, I'm happy to oblige. I will post something from the Pool book tonight and will try my best to include only the regency food. Zimei"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (22:46)", "body": "I'm afraid I have to put off reporting what's on Jane Austen's dinner table a little longer. The other day I went to get the Pool book renewed only to find out someone put a hold on it. I sould get it back when the next copy comes in a few days. I'm also going to the main library this weekend to get more background books (thanks HC for reminding me not to trust the Pool book blindly). Hmmm, should have minored 19-century English literary history in college :) Again, I apologize for not keeping my word, I hope it will not become a great scandal! Zimei"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "In the interest of avoiding unnecessary topic proliferation I'm going to post some general stuff on Regency financial stuff here; it seems to fit with the background information trend; as it will not poat as one large message I'm going to try it as a few smaller ones. A discussion I had yesterday with one of the recent additions to out group made me think that it might be worthwhile to repeat some of the information about the finances in the background of P&P. I'm doing this largely from memory, if I make errors of omission or commission would one of those present for the original discussions please correct me."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (22:02)", "body": "part2 At the beginning of P&p we have; Mr Bennet who owns (inherited) Longbourne estate, including the house and pleasure gardens and with farm(s) attached which provide an income of 2,000 pounds pa. This estate is entailed; it will be inherited by Mr Bennet's closest male heir (Mr Collins). If she survives Mr Bennet Mrs Bennet will have 5,000 pounds, the interest of which will bring in 200 pounds pa, and she will not own a house. After Mrs Bennet's death the 5,000 will be divided amongst her daughters, in a proportion to be decided by the arents, so the unmarried Bennet girls will average an income of 40 pounds pa each (jobs available are pretty much limited to governessing or companion - both dire!). Mr Collins is at present holds the 'living' of the church at Hunsford, bestowed on him by Lady Catherine. It would probably bring in 300-400 pounds pa, the house and usually some farm land would also be his free of charge. Lady Catherine cannot take it off him once he has been appointed, but could give him other livings to hold in addition to Hunsford, with the associated extra income. Although he is personally ridiculous, his intention of marrying one of the Bennet sisters sight unseen could be conside ed generous, as it would allow his wife, and by implication her mother and any unmarried sisters, to go on living at Longbourne, at his expense."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (22:02)", "body": "part3 Mr Bingley owns no land but has 100,000 pounds invested at 5%; 5,000 pa. His sisters each have 20,000 pounds, presumed also in the 5% 'govt bonds'; the Bingley money was made by their father who was a very successful merchant (in trade!) Mr Bingley intends buying an estate (and does so, 30 miles from Pemberly, a year after his marriage). Mr Darcy also owns an inherited estate, including the house and grounds of Pemberly and farms bringing in 10,000 pounds pa. Georgiana has an inheritance of 30,000, probably also in 5% govt bonds. Sir William Lucas was a merchant on a small scale before being knighted, and retired on not much money; his children will inherit very little, but his daughters do have brothers who may be able to support them if they do not marry; the range of jobs available for men was far greater."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (22:03)", "body": "part 4, final The very different conditions in the regency period make it very difficult to understand just how rich/poor these people were; for example no one had access to what I would regard as acceptable, let alone good, medical care. There are some very interesting comparisons drawn with modern American equivalents by Edward Copeland in his article \" the Economic Realities of Jane Austen's Day \" which appears in \" Approaches to Teaching Austen's Pride and Prejudice \" edited by Marcia McClintock Folso . Amongst other comparison he estimates Mrs Bennet's 200 pounds pa would allow the equivalent of a 4th floor walk-up studio-flat with a small stove, a small vacuum cleaner and a shared bathroom down the hall. Again, although Mrs Bennet is very silly, she is right to be concerned about her and her daughters' future; a good marriage for at least one is probably the only way out."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "Topic 181 of 181 [austen]: Understanding Regency society Response 5 of 5: Amy (Amy) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:26) * 204 lines Moved from old topic, Mozart wigs ____ Topic 57 of 181: 'Mozart wigs' Sun, Dec 1, 1996 (21:25) | Rachel Youdelman (baka) Help! my kids are infected with my addiction to P&P2! My son says the servants are wearing 'Mozart wigs'!! from Rachel 11 new of 11 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 1 of 11: Amy Bellinger (Amy) * Mon, Dec 2, 1996 (04:02) * 13 lines Well, that [wigs] is one point on which I think What Jane Austen Ate... is accurate. I don't own the book, but if I remember Pool(e?) was sort of incredulous in his style of explaining the costuming of servants of the rich. He said something like, \"For some reason, the wealthy had their servants dress as they themselves might have some 40 years before.\" In the neighborhood of Meryton, Nethfield and Longbourn, the Bingely household is the only one where we see servants so dressed. And that brings up something I have wondered about. How far away would some other great estates be from Longbourn and would the Bennets have been acquainted with those families. And. If Longbourn had a church, would not Netherfield be a parish too, or would it have been too close? Was the house at Netherfield an old estate or built by an upstart like Bingley himself? I don't think any of these questions are answered in the book, but wondered if there are any hints in the book, or if anyone who knows the period cares to speculate. Oh, sorry. I am on a ramble. Fun to think about the fact that Mozart was nearly comtemporary. I imagine his music was to our Regency friends as Gershwin is to us. Amy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 2 of 11: Anna (Anna) * Mon, Dec 2, 1996 (04:27) * 22 lines \"For some reason, the wealthy had their servants dress as they themselves might have some 40 years before.\" it's still done in some circles - Euro/Brit upper classes on formal occasions mainly How far away would some other great estates be from Longbourn other than Netherfield? Pemberly was 10 mile in diameter, thus ~ 3 miles across (mind you I'm not sure if 'estate' in this context ment all the property or just the pleasure grounds, but I suspect the latter). Most of the land had been enclosed by then so allowing for some waste grounds there should be reasonable sized estates every 10 miles or so. Some at least of the owners would have been on visiting terms with the Bennets. If Longbourn had a church, would not Netherfield be a parish too, or would it have been too close? Was the house at Netherfield an old estate or built by an upstart like Bingley himself? I think if Netherfield was an established 'great house' with an associated village it would have had a church and parish, but not if it was a recent addition to the scene. I don't think we can tell which from the text. Oh, sorry. I am on a ramble. likewise - I was going to finish my tax return tonight. Fun to think about the fact that Mozart was nearly comtemporary. I imagine his music was to our Regency friends as Gershwin is to us. did you see the recent comment (here or on AustenL) that Mozart's music is technically much easier to play on a fortepiano than on a pianoforte? All that amateur playing mightn't have been as bad as I had thought. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 3 of 11: Donna (Donna) * Tue, Dec 3, 1996 (11:17) * 1 lines I thought \"fortepiano\" and \"pianoforte\" are the same thing. Did I miss something. Or is one larger then the other.Either one is upright or grand style. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 4 of 11: Anna (Anna) * Tue, Dec 3, 1996 (13:29) * 1 lines the pianoforte in 1812 was differently constructed to the pianoforte we use now (I don't know in what way - I've picked this much up from background reading but I'm no musician), and the earlier version is referred to nowadays as a fortepiano to distinguish it from the modern instrument. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 5 of 11: Ann Rydberg (Ann2) * Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (09:01) * 6 lines I found out that the French composer Couperin wanted something more varied than the cembalo. And one Bartolomeo Cristofori as an answer to this request constructed the pianoforte in 1709. The main difference from what I gather is that tiny hammers strike the strings and this can be done softly/piano or with force/forte (like Mrs Hurst on Netherfield Ball?).It seems they could be in rectangular form sometimes.The other special form comes from the soprano(?) strings being much shorter and thus needing less pace than the base str"}]}, {"num": 150, "subject": "Old BBC Emma", "response_count": 35, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (01:13)", "body": "I like this one the best out of all the BBC productions. The Emma is very good, the relationship between her and Mr. Knightly was very nice and believable...but this Mr. Knightly was much too old! He's only 37, but this guy was 45 if he were a day! But I did like him, he grew on me so til by the end, I thought him very attractive indeed! ;-)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (03:51)", "body": "Someday I should like to see this version, Auntie."}, {"response": 3, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (08:40)", "body": "Cheryl -- I agree with you about the age of Mr Knightley, and also about how the actor's portrayal helped us forget that difference from the book. Since we could say the same thing about Emma Thompson as Elinor and Alan Rickman as Col Brandon in S&S, I guess the age of the actors is less important than the acting and screenplay. At least this version of Emma is long enough to get more of the story covered. But then, as we have discussed re P&P2, no adaptation can really cover everything we want to see!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (09:01)", "body": "This Harriet is darn near perfect in looks, don't you think?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (09:05)", "body": "Yes, Amy, this Harriet is so pretty and sweet looking -- very much as I imagined her from the novel. Looking at this Harriet, I can understand Emma's thinking that many men would find Harriet attractive (or cute, at least)."}, {"response": 6, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (09:06)", "body": "This is also my favorite of the early BBC adaptations. But I agree with the age assessment of Mr. Knightly. He does seem too old. But better that than too young. His age and the skill of the actor made the discovery of the love between Emma and Knightly (may I call him Knightly?)more faithful to the book where they are both surprised by love. One of my criticisms of the Miramax Emma(although I did love it) was that Emma and Knightly seemed like the perfect couple the first time they were on screen to ether and that detracted from the eventual discovery of their love. I hated the costumes in this version. The men's coats all looked like polyester to me. And that hat!!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (09:15)", "body": "I like Mrs. Elton and the Knightly conversation and the humor he saw in her.Poor Jane Fairfax her life wasn't her own."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "Myretta, you are just right about the Miramax Emma when you say the couple seems too right from the beginning. I never pinpointed that part, but yes, it does take away from the drama and surprise."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "I felt the same way about this Mr. Knightley. When I figured out in the opening scene that he was George, I thought, \"No, NO, it can't be him!\" By the end of the show, though, I was fair to be in love with him. I particularly liked the way he raised his eyebrows at certain comments, his manner with Emma, and the way he dealt with Mrs. Elton. You Northam ladies will hate me, but I liked this actor's portrayal much better. I loved Mr. Woodhouse in this production. He made me laugh harder than any other character. When Frank Churchill says he's known little children to slip in unawares and open windows in cold weather, Mr. W's \"Have you? Have you really ?\" had me in stitches. I own this version and have watched it several times -- it never fails to delight."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (17:09)", "body": "Susan, your review of this version of Emma has made me want to run right out and buy it. I can't find it to rent, so I think I'll have to succumb to this urge! Perhaps I'll get it in time to join in the discussion here. It sounds better than either of the shorter versions, Miramax's and A&E's next Sunday."}, {"response": 11, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (18:37)", "body": "Susan -- I do so agree with you regarding Mr Woodhouse. He's such a fuss budget in this version, just as much (or even more so) as in the novel. And the actor is so thin he really looks like he could break in a strong wind -- perfectly cast, IMO. Regarding casting: the actress playing Emma has eyebrows that seem always to be expressing surprise -- too plucked and too arched, perhaps. I do like her acting in general, however. I have decided that I like both of the versions of Emma that I have seen, and I hope to like the new one next Sunday. Each has its virtues, and I have come to appreciate them for that. (I have decided to become more like Jane Bennet and see only the good in these JA adaptations -- I may one day be able to rewatch the 1940 P&P!) :=)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (19:28)", "body": "PEOPLE Online Reviews A&E's EMMA click on Picks and Pans http://pathfinder.com/@@yKZDxAYAHUWO25v6/people/toc ."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (20:10)", "body": "I thought that this adaptation had the relationship between Emma and Mr. Woodhouse just right! I've always been frustrated by Mr. Woodhouse and would have a hard time dealing with him on a daily basis myself...afraid I'm rather like John Knightly in this respect...but Emma always handles him so beautifully---\"handle\" being the operative word here! ;-) She deals with him with such patience and love, I really admire that about her, even when there are things about her that I don't like! ;-)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (21:17)", "body": "For those of you who want to buy this video set, I got it through the Signals catalog. They sell a lot of PBS stuff. It's about $30 for 2 videotapes. I don't have a current catalog, but could probably find an order phone number if needed."}, {"response": 15, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (07:16)", "body": "A classic Mr Woodhouse line: \"It is a sad thing to live, as it were, from one cup of gruel to the next.\" I had to laugh at this silly old man, and appreciate the handling Emma does."}, {"response": 16, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (09:38)", "body": "I own this version and like it very much indeed. Mr. Woodhouse is a hoot. Harriet is perfect....\"Oh, Miss Woodhouse\". Mr Knighly grew on me in this production, too. By the end I believed hin to be perfect for Emma. Miss Bates was rather old in this production, was she not?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "We've talked about this before, but there are always so many new people... Doesn't the Emma in Emma1 look like the actress who plays Mrs. Gardiner in P&P2?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Kessa", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (03:47)", "body": "I loved Emma1! I also thought that Knightley was a bit to old for the part, but by the second tape I thought he was perfect for the role! I didn't get to see JN Emma (I know, I know...) It wasn't here at the theator. (Can we say, reason to sue!) So I can not compare the 2.But I will say the 2 on dose seem a little short in min. for an Austen novel. In the book thow it leads us to believe that Emma is the prettier of the 2 but in the movie, while both actress are lovely, Harriet seems more so. Then again Emmas eyebrows were always moveing and I was always wondering what they would do next! But Emma in the first one did seem more glamoures (I sopose you could say) then Harriet. Harriet reminded me of a little kitten, just the way I thought she should be I guess. The is a place online to order the book if anyone is interested e-mail me and I will e-mail it to you. The 2 tapes are $21.99(US), not includeing shipping. Kessa"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Kessa", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (03:48)", "body": "OOOPPPS!! I don't mean to order the BOOK, I mean the movie!! What can I say its 3:26am here."}, {"response": 20, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (12:57)", "body": "Response 8 : I too very much agree with you as did Amy. Since I only read the book after, only now am I fully aware of the lack of surprise, thought it waas rather subtle, as if (in my perception or the viewer's) it was meant to be"}, {"response": 21, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "BTW anybody ever seen what we could call Emma 0 the 1932 version http://us.imdb.com/cache/title-exact/30388"}, {"response": 22, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:16)", "body": "From Johanne: BTW anybody ever seen what we could call Emma 0 the 1932 version From the imdb link: Anne Shirley.... Girl (as Dawn O'Day) From me: Dawn O'day?!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:33)", "body": "Never even heard of it, Johanne. Thanks. It guess it would be Emma0. What a find."}, {"response": 24, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:40)", "body": "Why not the whole cast : Marie Dressler .... Emma Thatcher (AAN) Richard Cromwell .... Ronnie Smith Jean Hersholt .... Frederick Smith Myrna Loy .... Isabelle John Miljan .... District Attorney Purnell Pratt .... Haskins Leila Bennett .... Matilda Barbara Kent .... Gypsy Kathryn Crawford .... Sue George Meeker .... Bill Dale Fuller .... Maid Wilfred Noy .... Drake Andre Cheron .... Count Pierre Anne Shirley .... Girl (as Dawn O'Day) Dorothy Peterson .... Woman Mickey Rooney .... Bit Part Jay Ward .... Bit Emma Thatcher, the Smith Brothers, Bill, Mickey Ronnie as Bit Part ? Dawn Evelyn Paris aka Dawn O'Day, what an interesting career, daughter Julie Payne..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:44)", "body": "Wait a second. Those character names do not make sense. I wonder if this was an early Clueless kind of Emma..."}, {"response": 26, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:10)", "body": "Where to find this thing, got to see it..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (07:53)", "body": "I MUST defend my beloved Miramax adaptation, Amy! You say that the leads are to obviously and handsomely-matched from the beginning? And how is that wrong? I think that it is meant to be very plain, from the start of the novel, that they are PERFECT for eachother. And anyway, Emma is supposed to be pretty and Mr. Knightley is supposed to be pretty hot."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (08:21)", "body": "] I think that it is meant to be very plain, from the start of the novel, that they are PERFECT for eachother. Oh, Kali, please don't lets argue about Emma anymore. By all means, love your adaptation to death! It is your right, of course. All I am saying is that I, just, me, remember not tumbling about Emma and Knightley's suitability for each other the first time I read the novel, not 'til quite deep into the book, if I recall, not until after she realizes Frank is not for her and I realize no other men have come on the scene."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (08:24)", "body": "Okay, okay...I getcha."}, {"response": 30, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:36)", "body": "Amy -- Since you have admitted as much, I will confess that although I love the Miramax adaptation (7 viewings in the theater, and a videotape to be ordered at first opportunity), I was not certain of the heroine's and hero's perfect suitability on first, second and probably third reading of the novel. I first read \"Emma\" when I was about 19, and like Marianne Dashwood, I was convinced that a man age 37 was well past the age of romance. As I grew in age and experience, Mr Knightly seemed more and more perfect -- for Emma or me!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:52)", "body": "I finally finished viewing the old BBC Emma and liked it very much. I really enjoyed having all the characters filled out more than in the Miramax version, particularly Mr. Woodhouse! Susan I really feel the same way you did about this version; Knightley grows on you as you get into it, Emma is good as is Harriet. I thought Miss Bates was great, and Mrs. Elton - ugh -- perfectly horrible just as she's meant to be. I'm now all anticipation for this Sunday's version and wonder how it will hold up."}, {"response": 32, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (20:46)", "body": "I have seen this version, and I do think it had its good parts, but I think it did go on a bit too long. I know they included everything, but I just wanted it to get moving or something. Mr. Knightly was too old, and while he grew on me, too, I found it hard to believe that Emma, young as she was, would find him attractive. Mr. Woodhouse was great, much better than the Miramax Mr. W. In the Miramax one, you dont get the idea of how troublesome he could be. Where are we discussing last nights' A&E ver ion? Not sure I was crazy about it....."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (09:51)", "body": "Emma 1 is very good and has the best overall casting in my opinion. Mr Knightley a bit oldish and admittedly not as dashing as Jeremy N. But very believable in his feelings for Emma - great voice! Mr Woodhouse and Mrs Elton are the best in this version, Miss Bates so good, Emma is clever, amiable and selfassured. Can't remember Jane F. but this Frank is rather good in my opinion and not as cruel as in Emma 3.And as mentioned above the sweetness of Harriet 1 makes Emmas planning more understandable; she st ll seems robust enough for a farmers wife. I fear Harriet 3 was a bit delicate and Harriet 2 not elegant enough for Frank or Mr Elton.Miss the beautiful singing and dancing from 2 and 3 and of course the gardens and landscape are not getting attention enough here. Do you not love the scene where Emma has let it slip out that she wondered if Mr K. might marry Jane F. and he is so amused and serious:'I could never love a reserved person' And Emma is so confused and he finds the pair of scissors for her..."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (01:10)", "body": "Do you not love the scene where Emma has let it slip out that she wondered if Mr K. might marry Jane F. and he is so amused and serious:'I could never love a reserved person' And Emma is so confused and he finds the pair of scissors for her... Yes, Anne, I do love that scene and the entire production. I also like, just before this scene, when Emma is fuming over Mrs. Elton having called Mr. Knightley Knightley and he smiles somewhat mysteriously as he listens to her rave."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "Well, thanks to Myretta loaning me a copy, I just recently viewed Emma1. And I must agree with most of the posters here that it is the best so far. It is far from perfect, doesn't nearly reach the level of our beloved P&P2, but I think this has much to do with the static sets, stark lighting and other production concerns. I agree wholeheartedly with Ann that this one is by far the best cast of all the productions. I know how much people admire Sophie Thompson's Miss Bates, but I think this Miss Bates is better in several ways. She looks the right age, but more importantly she is more of a character and less a caricature than Thompson's creation. We all know that JA walks a fine line between sketching and skewering her silly characters, but they are usually as alive and real as her heroines. To me, it seemed at times that Thompson was overdoing it. The Emma1 Miss Bates reminded me of several gossips in the small tow where my grandmother lives who are always plying you with cake and relating tales of some relative you have little knowledge of. She was endearing and annoying at once. Sophie Thompson was endearing only at Box Hill. And as to Mr. Knightley looking too old, I'll have NONE of it. He was perfect. I could see a girl of one-and-twenty falling for such a solid, stable, gentlemanly man. I LOVED Frank Churchill in this film, but my heart raced each time Mr. Knightley came into the room and I broke into a wide grin. I guess I like older men too. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 151, "subject": "HELP!", "response_count": 198, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (21:42)", "body": "Topic 9 of 170 [austen]: HELP! Response 293 of 304: Joan, too (jwinsor) * Mon, Feb 3, 1997 (20:30) * 1 lines The Spring server is dishing out multiple helpings of SERVER ERROR messages this evening. At about 5:25 PST it gave me 5 in a row but finally connected from the main menu - at which time it looked as if Austen had been struck with Old-is-new again - it li sted 167 topics as being new - but when I entered, it turned out to be a false alarm - THANK GOODNESS! But the server errors continue..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 9 of 170 [austen]: HELP! Response 294 of 304: Johanne (JohanneD) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (19:25) * 1 lines Same with me on Monday : multiple Server error, old is new on one topic but all was well after that ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 9 of 170 [austen]: HELP! Response 295 of 304: Myretta (mrobens) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (21:05) * 3 lines multiple Server error, Monday AM. Couldn't see anything immediately wrong with system. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 9 of 170 [austen]: HELP! Response 296 of 304: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Thu, Feb 6, 1997 (23:07) * 2 lines Does anyone know what happened to the next topic button? It seems to have been replaced by a hand written one????? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 9 of 170 [austen]: HELP! Response 297 of 304: The Mysterious H.C. (churchh) * Thu, Feb 6, 1997 (23:17) * 2 lines Gee, I wonder who's to blame? Picture: [AMY] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 9 of 170 [austen]: HELP! Response 298 of 304: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Fri, Feb 7, 1997 (00:21) * 1 lines Geez! what a tattle-tale! ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 9 of 170 [austen]: HELP! Response 299 of 304: Susan Christie (Susan) * Fri, Feb 7, 1997 (01:16) * 2 lines And also, sometimes that button is \"Previous Topic\" and sometimes \"Next Topic.\" Can it be changed to always be Next Topic? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 9 of 170 [austen]: HELP! Response 300 of 304: Amy (Amy) * Fri, Feb 7, 1997 (08:08) * 6 lines Terry, I take it you don't like my experiment. I don't know if you have been following our ongoing button saga. It seems it is impossible to change buttons on a conference by conference basis. You would probably agree that the green, red and blue buttons look ghastly with our regency green. So what to do? I'll keep at it in hopes of finding something that blends better with both color schemes. Though, truthfully? I made the Middlemarch and droo l conferencs to match the buttons? And I am starting to like their looks. All things considered, though, it might be best to have a more neutral button, so that conferences do not have to be designed around them. No? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 9 of 170 [austen]: HELP! Response 301 of 304: Amy (Amy) * Fri, Feb 7, 1997 (08:09) * 6 lines ] And also, sometimes that button is \"Previous Topic\" and sometimes \"Next Topic.\" Can it be changed to always be Next Topic? __ I am not sure what you mean, Susan. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 9 of 170 [austen]: HELP! Response 302 of 304: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Fri, Feb 7, 1997 (08:42) * 1 lines Just make it look good. I'm looking at it on a monochrome notebook. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 9 of 170 [austen]: HELP! Response 303 of 304: Susan Christie (Susan) * Fri, Feb 7, 1997 (22:09) * 3 lines #301 Amy, sometimes my Next Topic button is at the bottom right of my message screen, but sometimes it is clear over at the bottom left. I haven't figured out any rhyme or reason to it -- maybe I'm doing something weird? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 9 of 170 [austen]: HELP! Response 304 of 304: Amy (Amy) * Sun, Feb 9, 1997 (21:31) * 8 lines Amy, sometimes my Next Topic button is at the bottom right of my message screen, but sometimes it is clear over at the bottom left. I haven't figured out any rhyme or reason to it -- maybe I'm doing something weird? __ That must be it, Susan. You must be doing something weird. No, really two explanations I can think of. Maybe you are resizing your browser window, like if you made it small, you would cause buttons to jump down to begin a new row. The other thing is the t hat the main conference page has different buttons from each topic page. One example: you can search for text in the whole conference on the front page, no search is available by topic."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (21:53)", "body": "The new buttons look good but they're kind of big."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "Terry: The new buttons look good but they're kind of big. Terry, I like the bigger size. It makes it much harder to hit the wrong one by mistake (which I have been known to do!) ;-)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (09:00)", "body": "Terry, re the buttons. Could we give them a few days to see how they grow on you? Then, maybe switch back to the old ones for a day to compare. They struck me as a little large at first too. In fact Henry is helping me refine them, has already made them a little smaller, and is going to mess around with the type. The advantage to square buttons is that they are all the same size. When a new row of buttons must begin because the size of the browser window had been reduced, they all line up vertically like a keyboard, unlike the old buttons which varied in width. Another advantage to the shape is that we can have fun with it -- put graphical emoti ons on the button template, stuff like that. But, I don't want to push them down your throat. And I can take a little critisism, though not a lot. If you do hate them a lot, don't say so; make up some excuse."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (11:05)", "body": "Dear Amy!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (11:41)", "body": "Amy, thanks for making all these cool changes to our site! Everything looks great. I have no Server problems or otherwise to report. Thanks for being such a benevolent Topic Mistress and Queen of HTML!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (14:44)", "body": "Amy (and of course, Henry), I love the new look. Also, it goes quicker for me. Last week it took over a minute to go back to the main page."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "Amy, please, please keep the new buttons!! I like them much better than the old ones; they're bigger, easier to hit with a wandering mouse, and much prettier with their new colours!! Thank you for all your hard work on this site!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "Yes, do keep the new buttons it is easier on our \"fine eyes\"."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (18:47)", "body": "Thanks, but... well, what were you supposed to say to such a pouter as I am?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "I can't find Ramble even if I show all topics. Where did it go?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "*sigh* Amy! ;-)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "Ramble is back."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (00:04)", "body": "Amy, I came into this site with no other aim than to praise you to the skies for all you do to make it good for the rest of us. We appreciate you so much!! (And I really do love the new buttons -- I'm not just kissing up!)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (16:21)", "body": "Me too. I'm really for this new size and shape, kind to eyes as mentioned and it all looks so elegant, why even Lady Cath would find it hard to complain, like That is rather a small button you have got there!(Snorty look and vexed clicking of the mouse"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (16:56)", "body": "Snorty look. I love that, Ann."}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "I saw it on a high res screen at the mall and really like it, I'm used to seeing it on my mono notebook. Nice job, Amy!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (23:14)", "body": "Oh good."}, {"response": 19, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "Amy As a newcomer, I gather that you are the host of this great site. Could you tell me how I can get into the drool spot? It keeps asking me for a password, but as i haven't registered I can't give it one. Help!! Kate"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "Sure, just go here: http://208.199.212.10/yapp-bin/restricted/index and add drool to your conference hotlist (bottom of page) If you really are not registered -- and I think you must be or you would not be able to post here, go to: http://208.199.212.10/yapp.html"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (01:52)", "body": "Kate, use the same password you use to get here...don;t know why it asks for it again, but it does..."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (08:01)", "body": "Oh, that's right, Cheryl, I think I set up the drool conference so you have to sign up even to read it. But I wasn't sure if the measure worked."}, {"response": 23, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (09:27)", "body": "Thanks - worked like a charm"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (19:12)", "body": "] , I think I set up the drool conference so you have to sign up even to read it. fwiw; it's never asked me for a password..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (20:30)", "body": "Anna: fwiw; it's never asked me for a password... If you've put the Drool Conference on your \"hotlist\" (as of course I have!) you can just hit the \"next conference\" button at the top and it will take you there without having to sign in again. Baby, I know how to get into the Drool Conference! ;-)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (22:44)", "body": "I never doubted it Cheryl ;-)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (18:16)", "body": "Carl, or somebody who had trouble getting into Spring, would you mind going over to the old board to see if you can identify whether their trouble getting in here may be similar to yours? I've said about all I can think to say to them. Some seem pretty new to computers and/or the net, so I've been trying to draw them out and spell out the exact trouble. But I feel so helpless, not quite understand what this bwowzo pwobwum actually is."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (23:49)", "body": "Amy, sorry about my hasty departure from PCR---AOL booted me off when I downloaded one of the sound files---said something about an illegal operation(?). Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. One more thing, frequently when I try to post I get the box which asks for my name and password but no matter how carefully I type it in, I get it 3 times and then get a message which says I am not authorized to access this document and then my message gets dumped (it has happened twice with this message!) Why?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "Third time's the charm!;-)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (08:28)", "body": "Your browser has probably saved a misspelled user name or password from a while ago. The only solution is to keep saving correct ones until it \"takes.\" That's a technical explanation.. ; )"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (13:51)", "body": "Oh, something else to fault Aol for . . . . . . .;-)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "From the Yapp conference. Does not look like any of our troubles have yet been fixed. Topic 49 of 49: Release Information Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (22:04) | Kaylene Thaler (kaylene@armidale.ann-arbor.mi.us) The following is an update on added abilities, and bug fixes in the most recient versions of Yapp. *************** VERSION 3.0.14 ********************* Yapp now creates the partdir (participation directory) immediately. Previously, particpation directories could get trashed if they were being updated when the system crashed. Now particpation files are written atomically. From the WWW there was a malformed header error as a result of forgetting an item. This error has been fixed. There was an I/O bug on Solaris which has been fixed. The acl file now contains the proper information when a conference is created a file. If you enter a security number under the old system, the appropriate acl information is derived. The following have been added to Yapp: The commands `change cfjoin' and `display cfjoin'. Default .cflist, .cfrc, and .cfonce files are now allowed. The variables cancacl, canracl, canwacl, and canaacl have been added to allow checking for read/write/enter permissions to allow the web interface to be less ambiguous. ******************** VERSION 3.0.15 ********************* The bug in the acl file which allowed users to enter a responce when the acl file restriced who could respond has been fixed. Yapp was changed such that when you change a conference config file for a maillist conference, the maillist file is automatically updated. Mailing list conferences can now be linked to more than one mailing list. Line 6 of the conference config file can now contain comma separated email addresses. ********************* Future Release Information ********* In up and comming releases, the numbering system for Yapp will change. Any new functionality will have a 3.1.X number, and only bug fixes for current functions will follow the 3.0.X numbering scheme. If you want to follow the most recent developments follow the 3.1.X scheme. If you want stable code follow the 3.0.X Your current Yapp license will still be valid for both the 3.0.X and the 3.1.X schemes. numbering."}, {"response": 33, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (06:51)", "body": "VERSION 3.0.15 The bug in the acl file which allowed users to enter a responce when the acl file restriced who could respond has been fixed. --------------------------------------- This may fix the austenarchive problem that I had to force. Have we been upgraded to this version? Should we test it?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (02:04)", "body": "Amy Not sure where to post this, and was sure you would spot it here. When I went to the opera tonight (Marraige of Figaro, Metropolitan) I nearly fell out of my seat when half way through the second act Cherubino starts singing Lizzy's Pemberly song (sigh) Is there a thread anywhere that talks about the music on P&P2 (ie, song names and sources etc) Nice to chat tonight. Will try to stop by on Saturday, but we are going to Empire Strikes Back (yes it's out this week) and we may be queuing (that's British/Australian for standing in line)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (06:29)", "body": "A new strain of the \"everything old is new again\" hit me Thursday. I have been using the \"since/-1/new\" method of viewing for a while, and read through all the new topic comments at 3 pm (est). At 8 pm some of these topics (all in the 190's, I believe) had everything old new again. Other topics displayed only the new messages."}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "Our system clock was off by about 20 hours! But I just set it for the correct time with the unix command date 970222233725.00 ... if anyone notes that the time is off please email me or Amy right away so we can reset it."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (06:33)", "body": "Right, Terry. Like I'd know how to do that. I'd have to ask \"somebody.\""}, {"response": 38, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (07:56)", "body": "In UNIX, when you type man date you get a manual on how to use the date command. The date command also sets the time. So to set the date *and* time at a shell prompt (similar to a dos prompt) you type something like this: bash$ date 970223075205 which will set the date to the year 97, the month 02 or Feb, the date the 23rd and the time the 07th hour and 52nd minute and 05th second. Does that help?"}, {"response": 39, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (08:33)", "body": "Okaay, so it wasn't just me - Thank You, Terry!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "It wasn't just you, it was our whole system clock that was off. We're back on time now."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (22:39)", "body": "Does anybody else ever have a problem with the reponse area field disappearing? Sometimes I think it has to do with a stuffed cache; other times I'm not so sure."}, {"response": 42, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (06:47)", "body": "Amy, I noticed this happening yesterday. I thought is was due to the atrocious response time on the system; the area just wasn't loading. Have you noticed it before?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (07:43)", "body": "] Have you noticed it before? ________ On occasion before yesterday, yes."}, {"response": 44, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (07:50)", "body": "Hmmm. Does it happen randomly or is it related to something else, like response time?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (07:55)", "body": "Yes, I think it is related to response time."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "Last couple of days it has been so slow here, I dread coming. I guess the system is getting too full again -- or something?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (12:47)", "body": "I have been thinking there was something wrong with my connection...so it is slow for everybody? Are the response numbers or postings or whatever being kept track of? Are they extremely highnumbered lately?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (15:13)", "body": "It was as slow as molasses for me yesterday, also. I thought it was on my end, but maybe it was here. I would think this should go faster since there is so much less now with the rest in archives. Of course, what would I know - I know zilch how this whole thing works!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "Hi Inko, I'm delighted to bring your new chapters of Fitz to bed with me now. I'll read them and then maybe write a few line on my grownup Darcy bit...Wonder if Amy is doing her Mature Darcy ? This message is partly a time check..."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (15:38)", "body": "No, Ann2, I haven't had the heart for anything like that lately."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (17:04)", "body": "Help! What's happening with Spring?? It was fine at 4:30 p.m. est, but by 5:00 p.m. est it's taking forever to load - it just took me 20 minutes to get into the main page!! I'm impatient - I hate waiting around like that!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (21:44)", "body": "The system keeps bouncing me out - I can't move from topic to topic ARGHHHH!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (21:49)", "body": "Kate - Or anyone else who may get in here. We are aware of the problem and are working on it. Sorry you are having such a hard time."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (06:45)", "body": "The amount of pictures must be a lot larger than it was earlier. Does this affect loading time of topics?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (06:50)", "body": "Graphics may slow down an individual topic, but the problems we were experiencing yesterday and the day before were system related."}, {"response": 56, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (07:00)", "body": "I seem to be zooming through everything now, though! (Good thing as everything was \"new\")"}, {"response": 57, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (07:00)", "body": "I seem to be zooming through everything now, though! (Good thing as everything was \"new\")"}, {"response": 58, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (07:00)", "body": ""}, {"response": 59, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (07:22)", "body": "I seem to be missing the fanfic topic. I have tried all--new--last week--forgotten and it does not appear on any of them. Is this happening to anyone else?"}, {"response": 60, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (07:41)", "body": "I seem to be missing the fanfic topic. I have tried all--new--last week--forgotten and it does not appear on any of them. Is this happening to anyone else? Fan Fiction through 2/24 was moved to the Austenarchive conference and we began having system problems before a new one was created. That has been remedied. Topic 201."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (07:52)", "body": "Thanks, Myretta."}, {"response": 62, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (08:40)", "body": "We wouldn't want to leave you without a forum, Carolyn."}, {"response": 63, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (10:25)", "body": "Myretta, you are too good."}, {"response": 64, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (21:35)", "body": "AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!! Old is new strikes again! Circumstances: Several failed attempts to enter the Austen conf - some timed out, one resulting in a \"server error\" message, following which everything was new again."}, {"response": 65, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "Oh, no, Joan,too -- you appear to be in such pain. Is there nothing we can do to bring you relief? Shall we call your butler? A glass of wine, shall we get one?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "I got hit with it a day or two ago. My dearest sympathies Joan. When I got hit, I had lots of unread messages and topics, so the theory that it only happens when everything is read doesn't apply."}, {"response": 67, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (22:03)", "body": "Yesterday was my hit day. My cat sat on my lap for a long time while we went through them. Is there no cure? An \"Everything new is old again\" button? (Or a glass of wine, perhaps?)"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (22:57)", "body": "I'm sorry Joan. I hope it wasn't because of the topic cleaning I have just been doing. But I wasn't doing any yesterday, or whenever Ann and Cheryl were stricken, so we can't point a definite finger at behinds-the-scenes work. Will we ever know?"}, {"response": 69, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (23:00)", "body": "Amy -- I was hit with a version of Oldiznu this afternoon. It happened right after I had switched to all in order to find a topic with no recent activity. When I switched back to \"since/-1/new\" I found that the topics which came up (containing current responses) had oldiznu-itis."}, {"response": 70, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (23:20)", "body": "Amy/Joan I have had some trouble working out how to operate the sound-bits at austen test. I have left a message there... :-)"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (23:21)", "body": "Joan, too, your message was a perfect indicator of your frustration. Having experienced OIN myself, I know that feeling well, but I was not nearly so good-natured about it. At the very least, you gave the rest of us a great laugh, which is always a very good thing! Sorry you had to be inconvenienced to produce it, though."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (00:02)", "body": "I have again been struck with old is new...the second time this week! I am most grievously to be pitied!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (00:13)", "body": "Is it my imagination, or has the Oldiznu bug been in hybernation until the last few days. Seems to me no one has complained about it for a month or so. Has the house cleaning at The Spring inadvertently let the cat back out of the bag? If so, what would have caused the mummy to arise out of its sarcophagus?"}, {"response": 74, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (00:48)", "body": "I am most grievously to be pitied! And you are, you are, Cheryl! For the sakes of all of you, I hope someone solves this 'crime' soon."}, {"response": 75, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (04:24)", "body": "After hours of diddling, I think I have discovered a relatively efficient way to recover from All-Is-New. While at the main page of the Austen conference, with \"all\" selected, modify the location line in the browser to read /all/noresp. hit return/enter, and you will get another list of all conferences. Choose the first one. It will load with no responses shown. When it does, click the Next Topic button. Repeat till all topics have loaded in this way with no responses displayed! After this, hen you ask for \"All new\" nothing will be new. You can now read using -1 or last 7 days or whatever, and just the responses you have requested will be displayed. Topics with no recent activity will not appear. (Of course I only discovered this after I had already re-read - in some manner or other - all of the topics except for the last 6, but NEXT time, I shall be ready! I hope, though, that there will never again be any use for this technique - for anyone!)"}, {"response": 76, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (07:39)", "body": "Someone (?) requested that I post this here--sorry I can't recall who and sorry it's taken so long (my little one and I have been ill). Re: changing your computer's sounds First, this is for WIN95. Second, please don't hold me responsible if anything untoward occurs, I am a neophyte at this.;-) After you have downloaded wav files of your choice to your hard drive, click Start, go to settings, then control panel. Click on the 'sounds\" icon. You will see a listing of every place that your computer has sounds or has the capability of producing sounds. (those with sounds will have a horn icon next to them). Choose one from the list (like Welcome) and double-click on it. A window will pop-up, showing which sound is saved for Welcome. Since you want to change this, click browse, and where it says look in' select your hard drive (C drive in my case). Find your downloaded files, select the one most appropriate to 'Welcome', preview it if necessary, then apply. A word of caution--my family is most annoyed with the longer files, but that's their problem, isn't it!;-) I hope this makes sense--will those of you who understand this better please jump in and straighten out any errors or confusing bits? Thanks!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (10:23)", "body": "And you are, you are, Cheryl! For the sakes of all of you, I hope someone solves this 'crime' soon. Susan, we have been fighting this battle since we came to the Spring and it doesn't look like we'll be able to fix this problem without help from the software developer. The best we can do is share ways to deal with it. Joan's solution is a good way to deal with it. Amy, is the \"frozen\" topic still there? Maybe we need to freeze more frequently. I haven't been struck since I started doing this on a regular basis."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (12:09)", "body": "Good fix, Joan. I had not even known about that \"noresp\" switch. Yes, Myretta. The dummy topic is still here. I am afraid I confused people at first, because, even after 3 months here, I still don't know all the Yapp lingo. It is topic 187, \"Forget this topic.\" But see, I named it \"Freeze this topic\" at first and that wasn't right. Freeze is an admin function, forget a user thing."}, {"response": 79, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (12:57)", "body": "#76 Meggin, I was the one who left you the message about downloading sounds. Thanks so much for responding -- Joan, too, also told me where to find lots to use. You're both great! Now if I can just get my husband as excited about it as I am (we share the computer)!"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (12:58)", "body": "Meggin, I also hope you and your little one are all better now -- that nasty stuff is really going around."}, {"response": 81, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "Good fix, Joan. I had not even known about that \"noresp\" switch. And one that ought not to work! If you are displaying no responses, your markers ought not to change, but it appears that they do. Terry told us about the noresp option way back at the beginning when I asked how one could post a response in a topic that currently had no \"new\" postings in it without having to display the whole topic again just to get a text entry box."}, {"response": 82, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (21:07)", "body": "I've been bumped on several responses. Thought I was getting paranoid and you just didn't like me or I was just too stupid to be in such brilliant company. I don't say that sarcastically, I really felt that way. NOW, Please tell me how to get to the rest of Cassandras sequel. I tried to go back to Feb 28 as directed and nothing happens. I gotta read it. It's great."}, {"response": 83, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (21:18)", "body": "Claudia: NOW, Please tell me how to get to the rest of Cassandras sequel. I tried to go back to Feb 28 as directed and nothing happens. I gotta read it. It's great. Did you try the Derbyshire Writers Guild? It's at: http://www.spring.com/~anneh/derby/ and I hope that's right!"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "I've been bumped on several responses. Thought I was getting paranoid and you just didn't like me or I was just too stupid to be in such brilliant company. I don't say that sarcastically, I really felt that way. Boy, does it ever feel that way! When it (the bumping) occurs there seems to be no remedy for it and it can quickly reduce one to tears. It is the most frustrating, annoying, aggravating, maddening (don't pick just one of these--it is all of these and more ) occurance I have ever experienced!:-("}, {"response": 85, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "Am I the only one missing the CF thread on drool? It disappeared yesterday for me, and I am going through agonies of withdrawal! Can anyone put me out of my misery? Please????"}, {"response": 86, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (23:05)", "body": "I just got bumped, too"}, {"response": 87, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (23:53)", "body": "Am I the only one missing the CF thread on drool? It disappeared yesterday for me, Nothing is gone - the software just marked it as already seen. You can see everything again by chosing \"All\" (instead of \"new\") at the entry page, or see the stuff posted within the last week by choosing that option. (And if you are very unlucky, the fates may decide to curse you with the \"Old-is-new\" syndrome, and ALL of your place markers will be moved back to the beginning - a major bummer! All of these things are unpleasant bugs in the YAPP software, and not anything to be taken personally."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (00:08)", "body": "Don't mean to get whiny about this, but he really isn't there! Not in \"All,\" not in \"Since Last Week,\" and not in \"New.\" Whatever can it be?"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (00:20)", "body": "Susan, I am doing some other maintenance right now, but as soon as I am finished I will check it out. The Firth topic in drool -- right?"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (00:28)", "body": "Yes, Amy, and I found that if I go in with another name (same password), I can have him! So I must have killed that thread on my original bookmark -- is there any way to get it back? I think I was trying to copy a picture from there yesterday, and got a Transfer Interrupted! message -- would that do it?"}, {"response": 91, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (00:33)", "body": "I think I was trying to copy a picture from there yesterday, and got a Transfer Interrupted! message -- would that do it? No, that could just mark everything in the topic as already seen - but accidentally clicking the \"forget\" button would make it not appear in your list of topics at all unless you use the \"remember\" button to retrieve it."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (01:25)", "body": "] I think I was trying to copy a picture from there yesterday, and got a Transfer Interrupted! message -- would that do it? No, that could just mark everything in the topic as already seen - but accidentally clicking the \"forget\" button would make it not appear in your list of topics at all unless you use the \"remember\" button to retrieve it. __ As Cheryl would say, \"Yeah, right. What she said.\""}, {"response": 93, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (02:55)", "body": "Cheryl's quote is so valuable, for chat and other places, I thought it needed a picture."}, {"response": 94, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (03:07)", "body": "Good thought - but maybe it should say \"what s/he said\"? Sometimes the guys say things worth agreeing with, too. ;-)"}, {"response": 95, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (03:08)", "body": "Good thought - but maybe it should say \"what s/he said\"? Sometimes the guys say things worth agreeing with, too. ;-)"}, {"response": 96, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (03:10)", "body": "(((stupid reload button should not repost!!!)))"}, {"response": 97, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (03:30)", "body": "As I said in chat, Joan, it happens so rarely that guys have anything worthwhile to say, it did not seem work the grammatical awkwardness."}, {"response": 98, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (03:39)", "body": "not seem work the grammatical awkwardness. __ not seem worth"}, {"response": 99, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (06:46)", "body": "Susan - If you click the 'Forgotten' button on the top of your conference menu, you will see any topics you have inadvertently 'forgotten'. You can then open up the topic and you wil see a \"Remember\" button at the top. This will re-activate it for you."}, {"response": 100, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (07:34)", "body": "The barton.spring.com machine was down but I went and fixed it last night. I got an email from beverly, a new user, who says that she couldn't post a new topic (Kevin Costner) in 'drool'. Amy, are topics only postable by members or hosts in 'drool'."}, {"response": 101, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (08:45)", "body": "Thanks for all of the suggestions, but none of them seem to work. (I must have done something really bad!) When I press the \"Forget\" button, I get a Server Error message, so that can't help me. Anyway, I thank you all for the kind words -- I can still get to him by signing on under a different name, and I may have to be satisfied with that."}, {"response": 102, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "This Oldiznu thing has to be the single more infuriating software bug I've ever been so unfortunate to have my time stolen from. Is it my imagination or is is getting more frequent? Cheryl reported two occurances recently now I've been hit after having been stricken only 10 days ago. I hate this."}, {"response": 103, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (12:05)", "body": "Amy -- Re: your gender-biased graphic in message 93:"}, {"response": 104, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (12:45)", "body": "Hey Amy, first the business card, now this, I'm touched, words fail...I'll let Joan fill in the rest, then I can use my handy, dandy new gif!"}, {"response": 105, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (13:47)", "body": "Henry, when you say something or show something in here it is almost always something worth taking a look at. But the picture is mostly for chat. And look, you have to admit that chat is another matter. Much as we all of us think you and Ian are darlings for putting up with our abuse, you must allow that we don't often trip over each other to be the first to say, \"Oh yes! I agree with you, Henry!\" And if we did, what fun would that be?"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (14:11)", "body": "This is too much! I have now been stricken with Old Is New for the second time in three days!! First Sunday night, now NOW! How shall I bear all this frustration?"}, {"response": 107, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (14:17)", "body": "Oh my dear Anne! Please allow me to condole with you for I know exactly how you feel! You are indeed most grievously to be pitied and you have my deepest sympathies in your time of trial. (Try the all/since/-1 aid that many have recommended and it will pass more quickly.)"}, {"response": 108, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (07:10)", "body": "AARGH!!! oldiznu strikes!!! I was in the middle of reading posts on two seperate windows. I posted something and wanted to check a link, so I used one of my windows to do the search, found the link, added it to my post, posted, reopened my second window to here and YES everything old was new. If I use aa/since//-1 will I get yesterday's posts?"}, {"response": 109, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (07:19)", "body": "If I use aa/since//-1 will I get yesterday's posts? __ Too bad, Kate. Yes -- and today's. On the bright side, it is nice and lively and responsive here today. Terry, did Dave do something else last night?"}, {"response": 110, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (07:43)", "body": "Will I still have to open every topic on my \"new\" to make them go away?"}, {"response": 111, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (07:54)", "body": "Yes, I am afraid so. I usually do it over several days, gradually moving up to /since/-5 and so on. Earlier in this topic, Joan describes a faster system for her, using the \"noresp\" switch. The method did not seem to work for me, but you might give it a try. I am pretty sure it was in the last week, so go back 20 or 30 messages and you should see it. Try entering \"80\" in the redisplay window just under the response window."}, {"response": 112, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "Have just finished cleaning up after that disaster. Took about 2 hours. Blah.. But along the way I did read some of the old topics I'd never read before, so it wasn't a total waste of time. :-)"}, {"response": 113, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "When trying changing topic directly in Location address I got Server Error! the usual precedent to Oldiznu Gee, did I get out of there fast. First reflex, find some other boodmark unrelated to the Spring. Only then did I came back again. And everything is fine... (relief) keep my fingers crossed"}, {"response": 114, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "Another warning I've had is when I get all messages when I have not asked for all."}, {"response": 115, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (21:38)", "body": "I have tried everything to get to the address given to continue reading updates in Derbyshire Writers and can't connect. Is it because I'm on AOL with a Microsoft Explorer or what? Would dearly love to read more on the updataes. Please help! Thanks."}, {"response": 116, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (21:43)", "body": "That shouldn't matter, Claudia. Ann is out of commission right now so there have not been any very recent updates. And everything in there is also in the fan fic topics -- either here or in the AustenArchive conference."}, {"response": 117, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "HELP WANTED Help navigating the conference and simple computer tips for a very new newbie. Email Amy for details."}, {"response": 118, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (01:01)", "body": "RE help wanted: ___ Position filled. Thanks to everybody to helps."}, {"response": 119, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (08:32)", "body": "Oldiznu: third time in eight days. Is this a record?"}, {"response": 120, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (14:20)", "body": "Thanks, Amy."}, {"response": 121, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (17:48)", "body": ""}, {"response": 122, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (01:38)", "body": "Anne3: Oldiznu: third time in eight days. Is this a record? If so you have to share the title with me, although it a pleasure I could easily forgo, as you well know...my sympathies, dear."}, {"response": 123, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (02:01)", "body": "Once again, my deepest sympathies to the afflicted. It is a pleasure that we could all well forego."}, {"response": 124, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (02:06)", "body": "Would some kind soul please explain to me how you copy in more than one picture at a time? I always lose the first if I try for a second."}, {"response": 125, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:15)", "body": "If I understand correctly, you can only copy one at a time."}, {"response": 126, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (14:50)", "body": "I must practise to post even one pic...never done it...where does Pleasure lead, Joan I wonder? Dare I try it..."}, {"response": 127, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (17:53)", "body": "But I see people post more than one -- there must be a way!"}, {"response": 128, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (22:32)", "body": "Susan: please explain to me how you copy in more than one picture at a time? I think we are not sure exactly what you are asking. As Johanne says, you can only copy one (URL location) at a time - but if you mean display more than one at a time, you just have to tag the ones you want and put them all into the same message. Is this what you meant? (Of course each of these could be different if I were not too lazy to put different graphic names into the tags.) Ann2 where does Pleasure lead, Joan I wonder? Dare I try it... Donna has created a practice place over in the Austentest conference. People have been using it to try things out before displaying them over here."}, {"response": 129, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (23:57)", "body": "I think maybe I've figured out what I mean -- I'll come back with a clearer question if not. Thanks for trying!"}, {"response": 130, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (11:48)", "body": "Okay, I dunno if this is the right place to ask, but-- tried to go over to chat, got in, was able to type \"howdy,\" and then suddenly my keyboard wouldn't allow me to type any messages. Tried cutting and pasting, but to no avail. It's not my keyboard, 'cause I'm not having trouble posting here.....has anyone else had this happen? Is there a way around it? I do so hate to be unable to talk.....most vexing, indeed!"}, {"response": 131, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (12:20)", "body": "Help I have 2 topics forgotten (Ramble and DS oops) which I did not place there, and even though I hit the remember button they do not come up on the main menu. How do I get these topics back to the main menu?"}, {"response": 132, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "Carolyn, try this: After you hit the remember button, change the URL address (location: http:// , etc.) to read \"all\" instead of \"forgotten\". That should get you back to the remembered list of topics, hopefully with this one as well. (I think I sometime accidently hit the forget button when I mean to change topics or conferences?)"}, {"response": 133, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (14:49)", "body": "Tracey, you were successful in getting into Pemberley and posting a day or so ago, so at least we know your provider isn't the problem (like some we've heard of with AOL or Prodigy who can't get in at all). Do you know if your browser dumps its cache automatically? Did you get a message that the page was being downloaded? Tell more about what happened. --------------------------------------------------- What would anybody think about having a monthly orientation session in chat for new people. It would not be that much of a teaching burden if we had several people among whom to split up the topics -- chat, navigating Yapp, HTML, what else?"}, {"response": 134, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (14:58)", "body": "Amy -- sounds just the ticket."}, {"response": 135, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:43)", "body": "Amy - I know that my browser creates a cache file on my hard drive which I have to manually empty every now and again.....I use Netscape, and know you can limit the size of the cache file - would that help? It was just really odd--I could watch everyone else post, my browser would clear the form for posting, and the cursor prompt would appear in the text box; however, when I typed, nothing appeared. The cursor would vanish, flicker, then reappear. The document was fully loaded, according to the browser. I tried typing in a text editor, then cutting and pasting, but nothing happened there either. Should I try again tomorrow?"}, {"response": 136, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:48)", "body": "Tracey, this does not sound like anything that has happened to me. Maybe Kaf, on whose server the drawing room is, can answer better. And somebody who uses Netscape can better answer your cache question. Sorry. We'll find somebody who knows."}, {"response": 137, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:54)", "body": "Thanks, Amy! In the meantime, if I appear in chat and am silent, you'll know what's going on....quietude isn't really my natural state ;)"}, {"response": 138, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:55)", "body": "What would anybody think about having a monthly orientation session in chat for new people Amy, I'm available."}, {"response": 139, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:03)", "body": "Amy: What would anybody think about having a monthly orientation session in chat for new people Count me in, I can do chat and bold and italics ! ;-p"}, {"response": 140, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Associate Director of Bold and Italics"}, {"response": 141, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (17:46)", "body": "Amy] What would anybody think about having a monthly orientation session in chat for new people I'd be happy to join in too (at a basic level) on those occaisions I'm around ]somebody who uses Netscape can better answer your cache question. I use netscape with the default cache sizes and have never had any problem with cache in chat or anywhere else. The memory cache is 600kb and the disk cache 5000 kb."}, {"response": 142, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (20:22)", "body": "Tracey's problem sounds a bit like Joan's. Her machine locks up on her when she is in chat too--she can't type or change windows or anything."}, {"response": 143, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (20:52)", "body": "Tracey's problem sounds a bit like Joan's. Her machine locks up on her when she is in chat too--she can't type or change windows or anything. Actually, it doesn't. When it locks me up, I can not see what others have posted, or scroll in the frame; can not even get to another window to do something else. Cannot use keyboard or mouse for any purpose until it decides to release me. Even my menubar clock stops counting seconds (also minutes and probably hours, though it has not yet taken more than 14 minutes to recover.) I do not think my problem is Netscape's \"fault\" since it happens nowhere else other than at Worldrch. Tracey's problem sounds like some really odd fluke since everything else works other than typing into the text window.. Has it happened more than once, Tracey?"}, {"response": 144, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:16)", "body": "Re #134: Carolyn, I had this same problem and the only thing that worked for me was to go into View/Modify Preferences on the Main Menu of the Spring Conference, then change the one option to \"Don't Skip Forgotten.\" Worked like a charm!"}, {"response": 145, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (06:50)", "body": "Thanks Kathleen and Susan, I know have missing topics back."}, {"response": 146, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (08:44)", "body": "Joan - nope, only happened yesterday. I know it wasn't a cache problem.......I'll probably try again today and see what happens. Are you afflicted by strange lockups every time you try to chat, or only sometimes?"}, {"response": 147, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (18:39)", "body": "Omigosh, late last night(early this AM) I was completely frozen in chat. Never did that before. Was going extremely slowly just before, than BAM. Eventually just turned the whole bugger off and went to bed."}, {"response": 148, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "Are you afflicted by strange lockups every time you try to chat, or only sometimes? Not every time, but very, very, very many times - dating from around the time that Kaff said her ISP got a new hard drive."}, {"response": 149, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (10:12)", "body": "I have two questions: first, back when I just started on here, I asked about how to copy parts of other people's messages into my own, and Amy ever-so-graciously answered with Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, and Ctrl-Ins, Shft-Ins. She also said, \"then you can start on the fancy stuff like the showy crossover legato mouse clicks.\" I'm ready, I'm ready!! More detailed instructions? Second, when you type a message and then get an error message when you try to submit it (you forgot to close a command or something), is there any way to correct the error and not lose the message? I've tried fixing what I'm told is wrong and then submitting, but it doesn't post the message and gives an aborted! message. If I just choose \"Back,\" it takes me back to the response area, but my message has disappeared. This has happened to me twice recently, after I've typed a fairly lengthy post, and all I can say is AAARRRRGGGHHHH! Any help given will be greatly appreciated!"}, {"response": 150, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (10:28)", "body": "Susan, the only safe thing to do when you get an error box is to cut and paste the contents into another application, for example windows Notepad, then go back and get a normal response box, and cut and paste back from Notepad into that (only carefully correct the HTML error before you resubmit!)"}, {"response": 151, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "HC, thanks, that's better than retyping -- I had hoped there was a \"magic\" solution, though!"}, {"response": 152, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (00:10)", "body": "I had hoped there was a \"magic\" solution, though!' That is the cruelest of the Yapp bugs almost worse than old-is-new, because it makes you do it till you get it right and then tosses it all into the trash after leading you to believe that it is being posted. :-( I'm ready, I'm ready!! More detailed instructions? Have you visited Ann's most excellent html tutorial? Lots of showy crossover legato mouse clicks to be had there. There's a link to it at the top of the main Austen page."}, {"response": 153, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (00:53)", "body": "it makes you do it till you get it right and then tosses it all into the trash after leading you to believe that it is being posted. :-( LOL, Joan -- first real BL of the day, Joan!! God, I know that feeling! Thanks for the tips -- I have been to Ann's tutorial, but didn't realize these were there. I will look again!"}, {"response": 154, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (00:58)", "body": "Joan, I read this over and laughed again -- you are funny!"}, {"response": 155, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (01:38)", "body": "it makes you do it till you get it right and then tosses it all into the trash after leading you to believe that it is being posted. You may be assured that Lady Catherine would have a few choice words to say on the subject!"}, {"response": 156, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (16:43)", "body": "I made some slight modifications to the tutorial today. Nothing major though."}, {"response": 157, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (01:33)", "body": "I have Oldiznu---yet again."}, {"response": 158, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (15:33)", "body": "Deepest sympathy, Cheryl! But, I love your graphic! That says it all!!;-)"}, {"response": 159, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (23:29)", "body": "Cheryl, I think you hold the record!"}, {"response": 160, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (00:03)", "body": "You could add that to your card: Queen of Oldiznu ;-)"}, {"response": 161, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (00:35)", "body": "Cindy: You could add that to your card: Queen of Oldiznu ;-) It is a honour I could well forgo, as you well know! ;-)"}, {"response": 162, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (10:30)", "body": "Cheryl did you freeze that extra topic? It Seems to be working foe me, \"knock on wood\"."}, {"response": 163, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (12:44)", "body": "Donna: Cheryl did you freeze that extra topic? yep. And I freeze it again every time this happens, don't know why,it doesn't appear to work..."}, {"response": 164, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (13:05)", "body": "You know what, Cheryl? Maybe you and I are both doing it wrong. Let's both try: - Going to View/modify preferences off the Main Menu - And choosing the \"Skip forgotten items and hidden responses\" option instead of \"Don't skip forgotten items or hidden responses\" ... Trying to think of every possible combination"}, {"response": 165, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (13:29)", "body": "I was hit with Oldiznu yesterday, also. I cut the \"slogging\" time by using Joan's method of \"since/-1\" to only see one day's worth of messages on the currently active topics. Then, I only have to clear up the other topics as they get a new message. Today I'm back to \"since/-1/new\" and so far it's going great! I have noticed that I have never gotten Oldiznu on Drool or Middlemarch. (I have a couple of \"forgotten\" topics on the former, but none on the latter.)"}, {"response": 166, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "Kathleen: I have noticed that I have never gotten Oldiznu on Drool Nor I. Amy, I'll try your suggestion. Myretta is convinced it has something to do with my browser and she's trying to get me to change (she's so pushy! ;-p) I don't know... But in the meantime I can say... \"Free at last, free at last, thank God Amighty, I'm free at last!\""}, {"response": 167, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (13:36)", "body": "Kathleen: I have noticed that I have never gotten Oldiznu on Drool Nor I. Amy, I'll try your suggestion. Myretta is convinced it has something to do with my browser and she's trying to get me to change (she's so pushy! ;-p) I don't know... But in the meantime I can say... \"Free at last, free at last, thank God Amighty, I'm free at last!\""}, {"response": 168, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "Cheryl -- I am that glad to see that you are doubly happy!"}, {"response": 169, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "Cheryl, I've been trying the forgotten is really forgotten tactic? But the trouble with doing this is we are affected by another stupid bug in this thing. The sticky forget button? I have trouble getting topics to go back to normal with the remember button. It just doesn't work, no matter how hard or deliberately I press it. So, an awkward fix we could try: a teeny link that says \"n/f\" (for new/forgotten) down by my name on the front page. I'd put it in by the \"all\" and \"new\" and so on, but I can't do that for just one conference. See what you think. It may not work either, but, as General whatshisname in War Games said (Barry Corbin, the guy who played Maurice Minnifield in Northern Exposure?), \"I'd [blank on a blank blank] if I thought it would work.\""}, {"response": 170, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "Cheryl: Myretta is convinced it has something to do with my browser and she's trying to get me to change (she's so pushy! ;-p) I don't know... I'm not convinced, Cheryl. I'm grasping at straws. But I am pushy. Amy: The sticky forget button? I have trouble getting topics to go back to normal with the remember button. According to Dave Thaler. This has been fixed in a later version of Yapp."}, {"response": 171, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (20:17)", "body": "Well, I've never tried to unforget a topic, so that can't be my problem. I'm starting to get philosophical about the whole thing, that is after I curse up a storm to my dear, patient sister. *samooch* ;-)"}, {"response": 172, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (20:23)", "body": "Well -- Old is new finally happened to me. Very frustrating indeed!"}, {"response": 173, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (21:21)", "body": "Oldiznu twice in two days. Is this to be borne?! [I guess it will have to be -- what the hey.]"}, {"response": 174, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (23:29)", "body": "Alright, forget that \"getting philosophical\" crap I said earlier, for I have Oldiznu yet again, it just happened. Twice in two days, same as Kathleen... I am most seriously displeased!"}, {"response": 175, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (00:08)", "body": "I don't blame you guys. We don't have time for that."}, {"response": 176, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (00:20)", "body": "well, now something else wierd has happened. I was doing the old all/since/-1 trick. I lost my connection and when I came back on even the topics I had already cleared are new again! Is this going to be a permanant state for me? *sigh*"}, {"response": 177, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (02:12)", "body": "Cheryl . you are most greivously to be pitied"}, {"response": 178, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (02:12)", "body": "Maybe you should have had me light that candle for you. ;-)"}, {"response": 179, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (02:40)", "body": "Greetings from hot LA whence I am here via Telnet in BBS mode, and while I am most sincerely sorry for the afflicted, I think I am most fortunate to be missing the epidemic by not having access via browser. It has occurred to me that (grasping at straws) since there are hundreds of people on the userlist, yet only a tiny percentage appear to be cursed, perhaps it is our IDs that are whacked. Next time it happens to me and I have to read everything anyway, I shall try creating a new ID for myself nd see whether that makes any difference."}, {"response": 180, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (04:40)", "body": "Do want a shell account Cheryl?"}, {"response": 181, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (06:18)", "body": "Terry: Do want a shell account Cheryl? LOL"}, {"response": 182, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (13:55)", "body": "Terry: Do want a shell account Cheryl? Myretta: LOL You know me too well Sister! ;-)"}, {"response": 183, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (14:01)", "body": "I'm new here. Can anyone tell me what happened to topic 201 Fan Fiction? Is it down for maintenance, I keep getting server error and it is not listed on the menu today."}, {"response": 184, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (14:26)", "body": "I*t was archived, Tom. Look down at the bottom of the topic list (241, I think) for the new Fan Fic topic."}, {"response": 185, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (18:41)", "body": "Tom at the Main menu click on view/modify preferences.I checked skip hidden or deleted topics. That way you will only get the new ones."}, {"response": 186, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (03:32)", "body": "Just curious if anyone else has not been getting Austen-L the last few days. I haven't changed anything, but I think my last digest was Thursday."}, {"response": 187, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (07:04)", "body": "Nope, mine has been as regular as always, Susan."}, {"response": 188, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (13:01)", "body": "Austen-L : same here"}, {"response": 189, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (13:31)", "body": "Susan -- go to my page http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austen-l.html and look at the \"Problems and Troubleshooting\" section."}, {"response": 190, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:38)", "body": "OLDIZNU Third time for me. It always seems to happen when I have two windows open at once. But as I do that all the time, it can't be the trigger. Oh well...."}, {"response": 191, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:48)", "body": "Two windows, one for drool, one for here :)"}, {"response": 192, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (21:35)", "body": "GRRRRRR! I have got a mutant strain of Old-is-new! Last night I read everything that was new since the last time I read (which was Tuesday night); I quit with no new messages in any topic. Today, everything that was new yesterday is new again today. Not all 81 topics - just the 39 or so that had unread mesages when I logged on yesterday."}, {"response": 193, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (21:58)", "body": "\"So sorries\" all around for the Oldiznu-afflicted. HC, I already went straight to your wonderful page and followed the directions there as soon as I found others weren't having problems receiving Austen-L. I am apparently not receiving some other e-mail, too, though, so I am going to have to dig deeper. I really hate it when everything doesn't just WORK!"}, {"response": 194, "author": "kate", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (22:59)", "body": "Oldiznu today for the fourth time (2nd in 2 days) sigh..."}, {"response": 195, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (23:06)", "body": "Unbearable!! A record, Kate, am crossing my fingers"}, {"response": 196, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "I've been knocking on everything wooden I can find, hoping I won't get oldiznu! I haven't been afflicted since January. I primarily use /new/-1 (not ALL or SINCE). What address do you poor afflicted dears use?"}, {"response": 197, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (14:03)", "body": "Really, Margaret? I've never tried that combination."}, {"response": 198, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (14:26)", "body": "www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/read/austen/171/new/-1 This is what seems to work for me. . . . austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 152, "subject": "Best of Chat", "response_count": 61, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (22:07)", "body": "Last few days of messages from the archived topic: __ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 221 of 241: Kathleen Grant (Kaffeine) * Mon, Feb 3, 1997 (10:38) * 5 lines Margaret - Since its just a test site, the odds were that you wouldn't find anyone there. It IS good to know, however, that you AOLers can get into it! Now all I need to do is find a similar program that will allow for speaking in more than short sentences, so that we can ALL get together!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 222 of 241: Bernie Parkin (bernie) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (05:28) * 3 lines Kaff, here's an interesting pronblem. I just went over to see the temporary chat room and all I get is a blank black page and a message, which says \"Applet can't srart; class JavaTalkClient not found\". I'm using Netscape Gold 3 with an ethernet connection ot the Internet. PS Sorry about the spellings, but editing in a shell account is still an awful lot of hassle :( ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 223 of 241: The Mysterious H.C. (churchh) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (15:16) * 1 lines I got a \"connection not made\" error when I tried to connect... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 224 of 241: The Mysterious H.C.Henry (churchh) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (15:17) * 1 lines ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 225 of 241: The Mysterious H.C. (churchh) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (15:22) * 26 lines Here's some impromptu ad hoc imprecations and poetry, devised on the occasion of finding oneself alone in the chat room: From: Ann2 at 2/2/97 5:15 PM Forever empty is this room, why is it so? Wrong choice of time I do assume, I grieve hoho... From: Grace at 2/4/97 3:27 PM Everyone goes out the door... I am left alone once more! It is a condition I deplore. From: Grace at 1/25/97 10:41 AM Amy, Henry, Ian et al.... I am now channeling all my wishes and thoughts to you in hopes of persuading you cosmically to now appear here..... From: Ann2 at 2/2/97 3:26 PM Oh no, not again... those walls however elegantly covered with tapisseries and paintings, echo the sound of my lonely thoughts... Oh where are the friends that once I knew? Where have they gone? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 226 of 241: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (15:35) * 2 lines Oh how sad! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 227 of 241: Kathleen Grant (Kaffeine) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (20:25) * 5 lines That's wonderful - graffiti in the chat room!! If you have your towel, click here! (wav file) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 228 of 241: Susan Christie (Susan) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (20:43) * 4 lines I tried to go into A Place to Practice HTML under this new configuration and got a Server Error message (I was able to get in before). Help? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 229 of 241: Joan, too (jwinsor) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (20:56) * 1 lines Kaff - connections to the PCR seem to have ground to a complete halt - is there something happening in your part of the world interfering with connection? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 230 of 241: Joan, too (jwinsor) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (21:01) * 1 lines Kaff, Netscape said that the .wav file was \"invalid\"??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 231 of 241: kathleen (elder) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (21:13) * 1 lines Joan, too -- I was able to access Kaff's .wav file, using Netscape. Local server problem? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 232 of 241: Joan, too (jwinsor) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (21:20) * 3 lines Just tried it again - Netscape (3.0, Mac) does not seem to like it. The PRC has not accepted a connection for almost an hour now... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Response 233 of 241: Johanne (JohanneD) * Tue, Feb 4, 1997 (21:22) * 3 lines \" So long.... and thanks for all the fish\" :) all I need to hear now is Wallace to say \" Cheeeeeze, Gromit, we need some more Cheeeeeeezzzzzeeeee\" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 18 of 171 [austen]: Best of chat Resp"}, {"response": 2, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (02:25)", "body": "And thanks Slartibartfast! From the one of the other Arthurs. Arthurian"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (19:25)", "body": "Here is Becky's lovely graduation picture: Shortly, I will be setting up a Rogue's Gallery for anyone who wishes to post their picture on the web (this includes group get-togethers - Candace, where is our pic?!!!)...Anybody with a scanner can just pop the image up here in th Chat topic, and I'll take care of it from there. If you don't have access to a scanner, e-mail me and we can arrange for you to send a photo to me..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "I see what you're doing, Kali. Get back to that thesis."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (01:49)", "body": "Myretta: I see what you're doing, Kali. Get back to that thesis. Such a Mom! ;-)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (01:50)", "body": "Sorry, but I still mean it...;)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (02:47)", "body": "Ahem Kali, I certainly appreciate your efforts regarding the Rogue's Gallery, and it is lovely to put a face to a name, but did the lady in question give you her permission to post her image here ? ;-) Just being picky, sweet Emma ! ;-)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (04:36)", "body": "She did..."}, {"response": 9, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (15:08)", "body": "Thanks Kali for making tangible what I wanted to do for such a long time (but have'nt learned yet all the ropes)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (11:29)", "body": "Maybe you two could work together on it?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (19:09)", "body": "Fer shure!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (19:12)", "body": "FER Shure! AWWWWW!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (00:06)", "body": ":)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "kate", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "This is just a totally irrelevant thought that struck me the other day which would not be of interest to anyone except Austen fans (and constitutional lawyers, of which I am one) There is this really important American case, which you well-educated Americans may have heard of called Dred Scott v. Sanford. It was pre-Civil War, and decided (terribly) (1.) that African-Americans were not and could not be citizens of this great country and (2) that the Missouri Compromise was illegal. Anyway, the Dred Scott who brought the case (he was a slave, arguing that he had been made free by travelling into a free state and territory) was married to a woman named Harriet. They had two daughters, called Eliza and Lizzy. As soon as I read this I thought \"I wonder if she had ever read any Austen?\" What a one-track mind."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (17:35)", "body": "I did not know that about Scott's daughters, Kate. Thanks. Actually I was married in the old St. Louis courthouse where the case was tried. Hadn't been a courthouse for years."}, {"response": 16, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "]Maybe you two could work together on it? Will be happy too"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (05:08)", "body": "Cool, johanne...e-mail me with your ideas...I was thinking something VERY simple..."}, {"response": 18, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (22:21)", "body": "http://www.spring.com/~mhc/achtzzzm.html"}, {"response": 19, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (02:13)", "body": "Thank you Henry!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (15:50)", "body": "Here are two new smileys for people. They mive! You don't have to do anything differently than you would with regular gifs: <img src=\" http://www.spring.com/~anneh/loadlove.gif\"> ; = and <img src=\" http://www.spring.com/~anneh/demismile.gif\"> ; ="}, {"response": 21, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Thanks, Ann -- whatever happened with your Jeep and your job? You left us hanging!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (16:31)", "body": "Susan, neither are resolved yet."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "Cute idea, Ann."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (23:26)", "body": "CHAT LOG - AUSTEN IN BOSTON REPORT From: Caroline at 2/23/97 8:58 PM Hello Myretta! How was your afternoon? From: Myrettaat 2/23/97 9:00 PM Hi everyone. Our afternoon was wonderful! Arnessa should be joining us soon. We wanted to report back on our tea. From: Amy at 2/23/97 9:01 PM Hi ladies. Tell, tell, Myretta. Did you giggle too much for the Ritz? From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:01 PM OK. I'll start. I saw the log from last night and I know that you guys want DETAILS. From: Anna (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:01 PM ] We wanted to report back on our tea. please do! I'm glad it went well! From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:02 PM We giggled just the right amount for the Ritz and the waiter offered to take our picture. From: Anna (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:03 PM ] I know that you guys want DETAILS. yeah, show us how it's done ;-) From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:03 PM Arnessa, Jane, Johanne, Laura, Celia, Paula and I all met at 3:00 at the Ritz Carlton and were seated at the table reserved for Austen. Introductions to all who had not met. Then we launched right into an Emma discussion. From: Anna (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:04 PM ] the waiter offered to take our picture. goodie! I hope you intend to post a copy... From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:04 PM Laura, Celia and Paula arrived a little after the first four and immediately shifted the conversation to actors - particularly Rupert Graves (if you know what I mean) From: Arnessa (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:05 PM Automatic Message: Arnessa Joined Chat Room From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:05 PM Hi Arnessa. I was just beginning the narrative. Please jump in. We took pictures during tea, but opted to go out by the pond in the Public Garden for the group Pic From: Caroline (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:06 PM [particularly Rupert Graves (if you know what I mean) I can imagine. Did you learn anything new about him that you wish to pass on? From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:06 PM We talked about what we all did and learned that Paula Lovejoy is the webmaster for the ZD-Net Page. From: Anna (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:07 PM hi Arnessa. ]out by the pond water Myretta? where's Cheryl??? From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:07 PM ] I can imagine. Did you learn anything new about him that you wish to pass on? No Of course, water. Since there was water in the pond, we decided not to wet down the doorman. From: Caroline (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:08 PM And did you get any big surprises once you met all these people? From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:10 PM ] And did you get any big surprises once you met all these people? I know I always form visual impressions when I start talking to people, but once I've met them, that is no longer operative. None of them were a great surprise. Johanne's spoken English is as good as her written, by the way. From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:11 PM Arnessa is writing about this, so perhaps she should tell you her impressions. From: Arnessa (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:12 PM It was a delightful tea. We laughed a lot. We talked about P&P, everyone was so pleasant, just what you might expect from our group. From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:13 PM Shall I continue, then? We talked a lot about our community and how we all came to it.... I sent your love, Amy and a *samooch* from you know who... Jane's husband is from the UK so she goes back to visit often. And visited Lyme last year...Jane, Laura and Johanne all have young daughters, 6, 2 1/2 and 3 1/2. Laura and Johanne had pictures. From: Amy (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:19 PM Did Laura try to make you watch anything? ;) From: Arnessa (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:19 PM I was surprised a little at how normal it all seemed, like we'd known each other for ages. There was very little awkwardness. We almost forgot that we actually knew very little about one other. We were well into the middle of the tea before Laura remembered to show us the pics of her little girl, and we got around to asking what everyone did. (and found out that Paula works for ZD-Net) From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:20 PM I took individual pictures at the table and some of the food.(which, by the way, was delightful). There was a harpist. The environment couldn't have been better From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:22 PM Arnessa is quite right. It didn't feel much like a first meeting. And we agreed we need to do it again soon. From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:21 PM ] Did Laura try to make you watch anything? ;) Laura tried to make us watch everything she'd seen recently. From: Arnessa (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:22 PM Yes, the harpist was lovely. I thought of Mary Crawford and her harp. It was you, Amy, was it not, who first mentioned JA's prejudice against harps? From: Myretta (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:23 PM We did think about throwing a passing roller-blader in the pond for effect, but decided against it. From: Amy (New Msg) at 2/23/97 9:24 PM Yup, that would be me, Arnessa. I'll tell you more sometime how the harp and card playing theory relate"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (00:14)", "body": "*sigh* How wonderful! I'm so envious! :-)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (03:39)", "body": "So am I!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "summit", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (08:34)", "body": "If Only They Knew Rupert Hinslow, doorman at the Ritz, arrived at work after a tormented night of of fending off the calls of his ex-girlfriend (whom he had nicknamed CyberMoll when he learned firsthand her habit of daily credit card bingeing at CyberShop) and working on chapter 16 of his Austen sequel to S&S, What Love Has Learned . Disillusioned with modern women's illiterate and shallow ways, Rupert expected no further happiness from them and certainly gave none, having become a bit morose and defensive in their eal world presence and only allowing himself to be captivated with them in his novel. He was therefore caught offguard when a number of pleasant ladies passed him, giving him a quietly approving look and murmuring about their upcoming Jane Austen gathering inside the Ritz. Despite his training to be the perfect doorman - handsome, attentive, and quietly alert - he found his mind attempting to discover a reason for leaving his post and joining these kindred spirits in a scintillating discussion of his beloved author. Moreover, in that instant of passing his masculine sensor had detected a quaint and barely smothered feminine arousal under their Austenlike semi-austere, semi-provocative garments that threatened to obliterate his recent carefully constructed barrier of distrust and disinterest in women... The waiter, a more worldly fellow and yet a friend, surreptitiously reported to Rupert that several of the Austen party had been commenting on his attractions and their whimsical desire to see him wet, like someone named Darcy, by throwing him in the pond nearby. Having seen many times the A&E production of P&P, Rupert instantly knew the sensuous and emotional import of the remark, and despite his continued outward composure found himself desiring to dive in of his own accord, taking at least one of the ladies with him and... But the moment passed. Habit, reason, and a little more melancholy resumed their grip on him, and Rupert Hinslow stoically watched them depart. That night he added some new characters to his story, however, and decided on a different ending."}, {"response": 28, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (10:18)", "body": "Wendy, It's almost like you were there. Thanks for letting us know what he was thinking."}, {"response": 29, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "Hey, I'm going to combine the Fanny Price theme and the science fiction theme, (see the posting by Lura R. in last Friday night's AUSTEN-L digest -- I think I'll post it over in Ramble), so that the title of my novel will be \"Fanny Price, Galactic Empress\" !!! (Just kidding -- I think...)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "kate", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (17:18)", "body": "Henry, this is going to be fantastic. Fanny takes on obnoxious aliens at planet mansfield and defeats them single - handedly. Coudl someone copy the Lura (or is that meant to be Laura) posting over here so non-AustenL types can read it? It sounds _excellent_"}, {"response": 31, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (18:13)", "body": "Henry, what a marvelous idea (even if inspired by team writing gone awry)! Be sure to share it w/ us, chapter by chapter. ;-) Boston Austenites -- what a super wonderful time it sounds. I should have liked to be there."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (23:35)", "body": "H.C., since you have evinced yourself to be a fan of Heinlein, I am waiting in anxious anticipation!;-)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (00:12)", "body": "Actually, though I read and have read a fair amount of science fiction old and new, I am NOT particularly a fan of Heinlein... I tend more towards Cordwainer Smith, Lois McMaster Bujold, Lord Dunsany, Zenna Henderson, and some of Ursula K. Leguin, Anne McCaffrey, and Andre Norton (these last three somewhat erratic in quality)... As for the classic \"great masters\" of Science Fiction, I read a lot of Asimov in my youth, but don't reread his works much now, I like some Clarke stuff (especially the second version of The City and the Stars ) but am not a fervent fan, and never saw much in Heinlein or Bradbury to start with..."}, {"response": 34, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (00:33)", "body": "this may be just what I need to justify to my DH. He keeps asking \"when do we get to the car chase?\""}, {"response": 35, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (00:37)", "body": "Designated hitter?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (00:51)", "body": "dearest husband, tho' that might be interesting to contemplate at times"}, {"response": 37, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (00:54)", "body": "I hope your dearest husband is not your designated hitter, Cindy! ;-) Have you shown your husband the \"team writing assignment\" that I posted over in the Ramble topic (from Lura Raplee's posting to AUSTEN-L)?"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (00:56)", "body": "Again, not funny, Henry."}, {"response": 39, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (01:05)", "body": "HC, I have not for he's snoring on the couch at this writing"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (22:15)", "body": "] I am NOT particularly a fan of Heinlein... Nor am I, HC, but was always particularly taken with his idea that all literary characters live in universes parallel to ours. I did not mean to (and certainly hope I did not) imply that you were 'taken' with those of his tales where morality is decidedly lacking. As for supposing that you were a fan, I halfway remember seeing a reference to a \"fair witness\" on one of these threads, thought it came from you, and leaped to a hasty and erroneous conclusion. Oops. Sorry."}, {"response": 41, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "HC, there is no hitting going on, only LOTS of tag-team parenting (I'll drop him off at basketball practice on my way to rehearsal if you'll pick him up after her dance class lets out and meet you back at home in time to crach and do it all again tomorrow) DH read the story just now - I'm not shure just what level, but it was definitely LOL. I think he thinks there's hope for JA, yet! Thx for the chuckles"}, {"response": 42, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (23:19)", "body": "that's \"crash\" I'm not sure what crach might be"}, {"response": 43, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:23)", "body": "A one(?)-sided conversation in Chat: From: Candace at 3/2/97 7:45 PM Automatic Message: Candace Joined Chat Room From: Candace at 3/2/97 7:46 PM Hello???? Is anyone in the drawing room? From: Candace at 3/2/97 7:48 PM Oh, Mrs. Reynolds, could you please bring me a pot of tea while I wait for the others to arrive? From: Candace at 3/2/97 7:53 PM Thank you, Mrs. Reynolds, this tea is delightful. You would not mind if I was to go upstairs, would you? I would very much like to visit Mr. Darcy's bed chamber and especially the *sigh* bath. Please Tell the others that I well return shortly. From: Candace at 3/2/97 7:54 PM Automatic Message: Candace Logged Off"}, {"response": 44, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:27)", "body": "Another one(?)-sided conversation in Chat: From: Ann2 at 3/1/97 8:01 PM Automatic Message: Ann2 Joined Chat Room From: Ann2 at 3/1/97 8:04 PM Ah so you are all alone in here Mr Darcy. I hope I am not intruding on your privacy? From: Ann2 at 3/1/97 8:06 PM What a nice thing to say. Yes thank you I'd like to have some wine. Is that an interesting book?...Oh pictures? From: Ann2 at 3/1/97 8:10 PM You are making plans for the gardens I take it? What a coincidence, so am I... That's a beautiful rose, Princesse de Lamballe...exquisite white shade sort of greenish don't you think? From: Ann2 at 3/1/97 8:13 PM The climbing sorts are abundant...You have fruits as well...Yes that might be nice (to say the least) a walk in the park. I am indeed glad to see it I have read so much about it... From: Ann2 at 3/1/97 8:16 PM I was never happier to leave this room... From: Ann2 at 3/1/97 8:17 PM Automatic Message: Ann2 Logged Off"}, {"response": 45, "author": "candace", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:00)", "body": "BTW -- I did go up to the baahth and guess what I found: :-)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "candace", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:01)", "body": "BTW -- I did go up to the baahth and guess what I found: :-)"}, {"response": 47, "author": "candace", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:03)", "body": "Sheeesh! I did not post that twice -- and I swear I did it correctly -- maybe he's just shy, you think? Let's try again"}, {"response": 48, "author": "summit", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:09)", "body": "My dear, judging by the red marks all over Mr. Darcy, perhaps your caresses needed to be a little less fervid! :-)"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:18)", "body": "Well, at least you're all easily amused! You'll never be bored..."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (00:16)", "body": "Candace, Candace, Candace...;-)"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:06)", "body": "Ann2 and Candace are so cute..."}, {"response": 52, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (10:57)", "body": "I can see I'm going to have to go to chat at a quieter time of the day... ;-)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (13:09)", "body": "Candace, please take it easy. We don't want to wear out our Mr. Darcy before he has an opportunity to visit with all of his guests :-9"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Candace - what time is bath time??? When are you away from your computer?? I'll slip in during that time!!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (00:37)", "body": "Okay, just for the record and to be equitable, nobody gets to call me \"Mom\" anymore, except my own children. It makes me feel old and rotten about myself to have people I see as my peers see me as an elder."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (01:29)", "body": "Amy, we just think you're exceedingly venerable, not old!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (02:19)", "body": "Wonderful."}, {"response": 58, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (02:21)", "body": "Amy: t makes me feel old and rotten about myself to have people I see as my peers see me as an elder. It's not so bad -- I've been and Elder since I was born (last name, I mean)!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (02:22)", "body": "I feel so much better now."}, {"response": 60, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (16:46)", "body": ""}, {"response": 61, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (14:25)", "body": "You are quite welcome HC, glad to have been able to help. ;-) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 154, "subject": "Trust", "response_count": 101, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (08:27)", "body": "Hil, what a thoughtful analysis. I never heard that aspect mentioned before. (You should try it out on your pen pal.) Secrets are intimate, aren't they?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (08:45)", "body": "Hilary...I think in both cases they were caught up in the emotion of the moment and their feelings for each other, which they had both tried to fight. In Lizzys case, Darcy happened upon her just as the reality of what Lydia had done to herself and to her family had reached Lizzy. She was distressed before Darcy entered the room and it just spilled out. In Darcy's case, he was appalled that anyone (especially Elizabeth) would think so unkindly of him and even consider that he was so ruthless as to stea away from Wickham the gift left to him by Darcy's own father. Remember that a persons reputation was very important to them. Darcy cared very much what others thought of him (consider the first proposal to Lizzy). I also think both of them, even though hiding their feelings from even themselves for so long, couldn't stand the idea of the other thinking unkindly about each other. Lizzie even says it out loud at one point to Jane \"I can not bear to think that he is alive in the world and thinking ill o me.\" She won't even admit to herself at that point that she loves him. When Lizzy spilled out to Darcy the contents of Janes letter...she realizes that by his knowing he may be lost to her forever \"I shall never see him again\". So my answer is that I don't think it had anything to do with trusting each other...I think it was pure emotion...and by speaking thru that emotion, trust was earned...because they both respected each other for using the information given to them thru their emotions in a discreet manner. I have many times wondered how Lizzy could have kept all that she knew to herself. She did confide in Jane but she didn't even tell Jane everything (that Darcy had been the one to save Lydia and the Bennet family fro ruin). I would have burst keeping that important tidbit to myself!!!!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Grace", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (10:12)", "body": "]Just as they recognise their similarity of 'not performing to strangers', on some deeper level Darcy and Elizabeth recognise the other's integrity regarding themselves. It turns vulnerability into a chance for blossoming, and for this reason I love it. I agree, I agree! (We should also note the importance Austen places on the ability to keep a confidence. Lydia shows her lack of character when she so readily reveals that Darcy was at the wedding ceremony, which was to be a secret. Elinor, in S&S, keeps Lucy's confidence, even though Lucy means nothing to her. Also, Col. Brandon senses in Elinor her trustworthiness and confides in her.)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "Hilary, I absolutely agree with you on the trust issue. In fact, this becomes an important plot point in the novel DARCY'S STORY, but I don't want to divulge any details to those who haven't read. I understand what Linda is saying about circumstance and reputation: that Darcy happens upon Lizzy in the Inne when she's particularly vulnerable; that Darcy feels obligated to defend his good name. However, would Darcy have divulged the news of his sister's near-elopement with Sir William Lucas or Lydia? L kewise, could Lizzie have trusted even Charlotte with her secret of Darcy's proposal? I think these two realize early on that at their core, they are two people who can be trusted with each other's secrets. They both understand that the other has a great deal of personal integrity."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (15:22)", "body": "It's interesting that this would be brought up now. Saturday (2/8), our Jane Austen Society talked a little about the confidence issue. It was discussed that in JA novels when a character speaks badly of another one (particularly if it's another family member) you can be assured that this charchter will not meet with a \"happy ending\". We were discussing Mansfield Park and how Miss Crawford belittles her Uncle and this is the first sign to Fanny and Edmund that Mary is not a very good person (though it tak s Edmund much longer to stick with this idea). I inturn, feel that most all the charcters in MP are this way. I could not get excited about anyone, not even our heroine. If you think about the other novels, this is true in almost all cases. Nothing really harsh has to happen but it usually doesn't bode well for their destiny. The only charcter who isn't like this is Mr. Bennett. Am I missing anyone? I have to agree with Linda. I think JA wanted them to have to trust each other as a plot device. The information was disclosed in the heat of the moment (though they both ask the other to keep it as a confidence or keep quiet as long as possible) and we had to learn with them if the other would be true to the confidence shared. Darcy's Story does cover this. I just read that this weekend: Second half was killer."}, {"response": 6, "author": "norma", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (15:35)", "body": "I'm not sure if I understand exactly what Linda means when she says that Elizabeth's confiding in Darcy was \"pure emotion\" rather than trust--even though she says trust arises from the situation. I think Elizabeth confided in him because she trusted his discretion and also because by now she recognized the \"good\" side of him. The movie has Elizabeth saying, after Lydia's elopement all works out, that she wishes she had never told Darcy. (I don't think that line is in the book.) I have always been trou led by that movie. Elizabeth could never have married Darcy with the true circumstances of Lydia's elopement hidden from him. Their relationship would have to be built on openness and trust--which involves a mutual recognition of the other's integrity. Darcy had already exhibited his reliance on her integrity; she bad to demonstrate her reliance on his."}, {"response": 7, "author": "norma", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (15:56)", "body": "Oops! I see a mistake in my response! Please, please do not think I was troubled by the movie P&P2! I loved the movie, and I spent the last two nights watching it on A&E. I only meant that I was troubled by that line in the movie!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (16:10)", "body": "He confided in her to clear him of abuse toward Wickham. I think it was emotion confidence,because this way Mr. Darcy learns what should have been his responsibility to begin with. He should have spoken of Wickhams true character. She wishes she never told him This JA does too well leaving Lizzie wondering after the inn how Mr. Darcy really feels. I don't know why JA thought she had to leave it that way. I think she could have him be reassuring with out giving his true intentions away. (The idea being if he knew at the time at the inn \"his idea\" that he would leave for London. Then why not go instantly instead of wasting time?)This is another story). This is why the screenwriter left Lizzie to regret ever telling Mr. Darcy.All due to his reaction at the Inn. I do think to get this point across that Lizzie thinks he no longer wants anything to do with her and because she doesn't want him to think \"ill\" of her. She was definitely in love with him at this point.JA leaves us in such \"turmoil\". Myself at this point am about to pull my hair out."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (18:08)", "body": "Norma, I think Linda means that he walks in just as she finds out this dreadful news and she cannot help blurting it out. This is natural. Darcy tells Lizzie because his pride forces him to when he is feeling it wounded, probably like at no other time. This is what \"pure emotion\" meant to me."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (18:31)", "body": "] Norma, I think Linda means that he walks in just as she finds out this dreadful news and she cannot help blurting it out. __ I'd agree with this, except Lizzy would not have told just anybody. She's impulsive but collected at the same time, if that is possible?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (21:35)", "body": "I think that is possible, and its exactly what I meant, Amy. I know these were emotional crises for them, but they would not have blurted it out to anyone. We are told a lot about Lizzie's regret at Darcy knowing about Lydia, including that line as a thought, Norma in Ch. 50. Grace, I agree about the importance JA places on keeping confidences."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (21:35)", "body": "I think that is possible, and its exactly what I meant, Amy. I know these were emotional crises for them, but they would not have blurted it out to anyone. We are told a lot about Lizzie's regret at Darcy knowing about Lydia in Ch. 50. Grace, I agree about the importance JA places on keeping confidences."}, {"response": 13, "author": "sld", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (21:44)", "body": "[Norma, I think Linda means that he walks in just as she finds out this dreadful news and she cannot help blurting it out. This is natural.] The thing is, I don't think it was natural. For you and me today, yes. But I don't in those times it was natural at all. From what I have read, people were reserved in the extreme. Elizabeth would probably not have told Darcy of Lydia's elopement if they had not already 'had a history'. I have already said something to this effect in the 'Happiest Couple' thread in argument that Elizabeth and Darcy would have been the happiest couple of all JA characters. It starts with Elizabeth's telling Darcy exactly what she thought of him after his first proposal. Now that was NOT natural or normal. (She sure held back on Mr. Collins' proposal!) I think that she was the first human being that Darcy had ever come across who was totally honest with him. He may not have liked her message at irst, but as he said later, it was just. And when he then wrote her the letter afterwards, it was an honest response to her honesty with him, as well as the fact that he didn't want her to believe that he was dishonourable. I don't think that he would have defended himself to just anyone because he would have had to share his secret. The circle is then completed at inn when she has the opportunity to share her secret. Once again, if a stranger had come though that door, she certainly would not have confessed such a disgraceful thing. This sharing of secrets, this honesty, this intimacy is what makes their story so beautiful for their times and even today. They had each found someone they could be total nude with (emotionally). And that is why they were the happiest couple in Austen Valley. And Hilary, your opening was beautifully said."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (09:53)", "body": "Yesterday in the drawing room, I complimented Hilary on thinking of the trust issue. She said she'd been noodling on it for a time, ever since we spoke about Darcy's vulnerability some weeks or months ago. I think I'd like to explore another region of vulnerability. Here is an edited chat log (with a discussion of Cadbury's chocolate and Daniel Day Lewis drooling -- led by Cheryl -- extracted); you'll see why bringing it out into the open scares me a little. AMY: I'd still like to talk about another part of vulnerability. SAMAN: Sorry - who's vulnerability? HIL: You mean in realation to our liking for D, Amy, or in another way? AMY: Well, you are getting into vulnerability when you talk about trust. But I mean, the \"do we want to mother Darcy,\" part of vulnerability. SAMAN: Do WE want to mother Darcy? Need you ask? AMY: Why do we like it so when he stammers and fidgets? HIL: Darcy's vulnerability, Saman. Oh I see, Amy. Yeah.... I see what you mean about half wanting to! CHERYL: ]Why do we like it so when he stammers and fidgets? it shows that he isn;t in as complete control as he likes to think, and we don;t want men who are too sure of themselves! HIL: Why do we like it fidgets etc....still think its because it indicates uncertainty, a chink in the armour. AMY: From:Amy(New Msg) at 2/10/97 3:01 PM ] ]Why do we like it so when he stammers and fidgets? it shows that he isn;t in as complete control as he likes to think, and we don;t want men who are too sure of themselves! __ So, it may not have anything -- or much -- to do with wanting to mother. But still, liking somebody not sure of himself, what does that say about us? SAMAN: I definitely identify with the vulnerability thing. When he stammers and fidgets I think \"poor thing\", which I guess means that I want to mother him. Maybe that's why Lizzy is so good for him - she possibly has the same initial reaction, but she doesn't (or can't) intervene to make him more at ease. CHERYL: ]But still, liking somebody not sure of himself, what does that say about us? men who are too sure of themselves are the ones who are arrogant, don't give your opinion as much weight as theirs. and who wants that? SAMAN: But there's something very dangerous about liking someone because of their vulnerability. HIL: Exacactly, Amy.. But still, liking somebody not sure of himself, what does that say about us? I think its the fact that no-one is so sure of themselves, and if you recognise that in yourself its good, and if you can see it in someone who is accomplished in many ways, it allows you to feel that they are as human/flawed as yourself. Puts you as equals in some way. CHERYL: ]But there's something very dangerous about liking someone because of their vulnerability. yes it is a fine line...you don't want someone who is wishy-washy or too needy... AMY: men who are too sure of themselves are the ones who are arrogant, don't give your opinion as much weight as theirs. and who wants that? ____ But can't their be respect and kindness and charity within a guy who is sure of himself. Does he have to feel somewhat bad about himself to make us like him or want him? SAMAN: Thanks Hil - that's what I was getting at too. If you're attracted to someone because they're vulnerable, chances are you'll try to change them. THey might be perfectly happy with (or oblivious to) their vulnerability, so that it's not a good idea to try and make them less vulnerable. CAROLYN: ]I think its the fact that no-one is so sure of themselves, and if you recognise that in yourself its good, and if you can see it in someone who is accomplished in many ways, it allows you to feel that they are as human/flawed as yourself. Puts you as equals in some way. Very good, Hilary, I was thinking along the same lines, but could not put it as elequantly as you did. CHERYL: yeah, Amy--what Hil said! ;-) HIL: 'But can't their be respect and kindness and charity within a guy who is sure of himself' Yes, I think so. AMY: yeah, Amy--what Hil said! ;-) __ She does have a nice way of saying what we would like to say, doesn't she? CHERYL: From:Cheryl(New Msg) at 2/10/97 3:15 PM ]She does have a nice way of saying what we would like to say, doesn't she? yep! she's so damn articulate! ;-) (oh sorry--there's that growing uop thing again...:-( ) HIL: Cheryl, we wouldn't want you any other way! (Then I neglected to capture the part about how Cheryl can be an analytical as anybody, she just gets distracted -- oh look... --- ! ! -- .. a bird!)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (10:00)", "body": "Norma and Amy....remember that Lizzy didn't even tell Jane everything...she didn't tell her till later about who was the benefactor that got the Bennets out of Lydias mess....if she wouldn't even release a confidence to her only confident..Jane...she would have never told Darcy...whom she was still holding at arms length..and whom she did not want to have know anything that may have put herself or her family in a negative light in Darcys eyes. Look how she reacted to their meeting at Pemberley...she was ghast at what he might think of her then...why would she in just two days time...tell him the most devastating thing that had happened to her and her family, Ever! It had to be because it was the heat of the moment..that he happened into the situation at that time...I do believe that because of her \"being assured of his secrecy\" that trust is earned...just as it is when Darcy writes his letter telling of the situation with Wickham and his sister. To take it even further...this trust that develops due to these circumstances most likely builds to the love that they are finely able to unveil when they take that walk down the lane that leads to their future together."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "Did I say anything about Lizzy's intimacy with Jane? I don't remember saying anything about that. It is one of the impressions I try to guard against, having watched the film so many times and having become so married to Davies interpretation. Austen never meants for Jane to serve as confindante. She even says that Charlotte was closer to Lizzy. Davies used the bedroom scenes as a way to let us know what Lizzy was thinking. It works. I love those scenes. But she was not so close to Jane."}, {"response": 17, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (11:18)", "body": "It's doubly sad then, that when Charlotte marries Mr. Collins, Lizzie loses her best friend & confidante (in fact, confiding to Charlotte as Mrs. Collins could actually be HARMFUL to Lizzie where Mr. Darcy is concerned, considering the Lady C. connection). Having read all of the opinions above, I just can't believe that Darcy would reveal \"a scandal - involving his own sister even!\" if he didn't implicitly trust Lizzie to the core. Of course, he wanted to clear himself, but if he didn't feel she would r n around Meryton crowing the news like Lydia, could he ever have revealed the intimate details of the near-affair between Georgiana and Wickham? Likewise, we know that Lizzy is highly distraut at the Inne when Darcy stumbles upon her. However, she could merely have said that \"ugent business calls us home\" -- Period. The age was reserved enough to make this perfectly acceptable -- no further revelation or explanation necessary. I very much subscribe to Sharon's opinion above: these two DO trust each o her. I think Lizzie understands that Darcy is a man to be trusted even when enmeshed in her dislike of him. And she validates his opinion of her by proving the soul of discretion with his secret."}, {"response": 18, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (11:51)", "body": "]AMY: re: men who are too sure of themselves are the ones who are arrogant, ]don't give your opinion as much weight as theirs. and who wants that? ]_________ ]But can't their be respect and kindness and charity within a guy who is sure of ]himself. Does he have to feel somewhat bad about himself to make us like him or ]want him? Don't believe lack of thrust or simple vulnerability which can be experience as a man (or women) acknowledging being human and not always right, allowing oneself to wonder of its justness of decision and calculations is \"to feel bad about oneself\". This can be a positive experience allowing to grow as a person and not necessarely a repressive emotions to succomb to. ]Hil : I think its the fact that no-one is so sure of themselves, and if you ]recognise that in yourself its good, and if you can see it in someone who is ]accomplished in many ways, it allows you to feel that they are as human/flawed ]as yourself. Puts you as equals in some way. Well said, Hilary"}, {"response": 19, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (12:03)", "body": "I think it is important to differentiate between vulnerability and neediness. Those of us who mother tend (or tended at one time) to be attracted to needy men (a generalization, I admit). I think that the reasons for this are various and, in each case, are bound up with the myriad events that have made us who we are. I think I understand why this subject scares you, Amy. But vulnerability is not neediness. It is a part of honesty. We are all vulnerable in some way and, if we trust, we can reveal that vulnerability to another. When your cat rolls over on his back and exposes that soft belly to your touch, it is because he trusts that you will not take that opportunity to rip it open. When I expose my inner self, it is much the same. I trust that the person to whom I reveal this vulnerable area will not rip open my psyche. So, from my perspective, the admission vulnerability is not a revelation of weakness but of trust."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (12:04)", "body": "O.K., these are all great arguments with validity for all sides, but now the big question: Why does Darcy initially trust Lizzie? Does she really give him any reason to trust her? Think of all the scenes where he catches her in a whispered/private conversation (with Charlotte at the ball and Lucas Lodge). How about her frankness? Wouldn't that put him off in a time of reserve? When we clear this up we can ask the other question: Why Lizzie trusts Darcy, which I think is easier to answer."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:29)", "body": "] We are all vulnerable in some way and, if we trust, we can reveal that vulnerability to another. When your cat rolls over on his back and exposes that soft belly to your touch, it is because he trusts that you will not take that opportunity to rip it open. __ I like the way you explain this, Myretta. It could be that since I still have trouble allowing myself to be vulnerable, afraid my trust will be betrayed, that I fear the feeling of attraction to the vulnerability of others? That probably doen't make any sense to anybody but a fellow current or former co-dep."}, {"response": 22, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:55)", "body": "Makes a LOT of sense"}, {"response": 23, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:32)", "body": "It could be that since I still have trouble allowing myself to be vulnerable, afraid my trust will be betrayed, that I fear the feeling of attraction to the vulnerability of others? That probably doen't make any sense to anybody but a fellow current or former co-dep. ____________ I think that history of co-dependency also makes us afraid that we can't distinguish vulnerability from neediness. And what a disaster that attraction is!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:59)", "body": "Dependency and neediness -- these are both very human qualities, are they not? The extremes, constant need for attention or affection or reassurance, for example, are the danger. People with an extreme neediness can become takers who never return your attention or affection or reassurances. On the other hand, people who are self-sufficient in the extreme do not appear to need us in any way, and what is attractive about that? I am talking about people who go beyond self confidence to arrogance and conceit, who know that nobody else could possibly do/know better. I feel that Darcy initially appears almost too self-sufficient (and maybe too self-satisfied), but his attraction to Elizabeth informs him of his need for her affection (and approval). He then allows his vulnerability to be visible -- to himself and to Elizabeth."}, {"response": 25, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "To pick up the question of whether \"we\" want to mother Darcy, I can only speak for myself -- NO. I have never had that tendency, nor have I played that part in any relationship (I have no children, and I am more of a friend to my nieces & nephews). So, I would say that Darcy's fidgets, etc. are attractive to me because they show his human side, and I find him quite an attractive human (for a literary character!)."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (15:08)", "body": "It does make sense to me, Amy. Myretta, you say exactly what I was getting at with vulnerability. And likewise Amy2 and Sharon re theP&P trust. Linda, as to why Darcy should trust Lizzie, its an interesting question. He has been watching her and how she deals with people and behaves. But my main response would be: Don't you ever meet people and just know that you are on the same wavelength, and can trust them? Of course we can turn out wrong, and Darcy being wrong would be a whole new story, but he wasn't."}, {"response": 27, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (15:21)", "body": "Thank you Myretta and Kathleen for making understandable what I wanted to say. Upon reading my post not even I understands what it means."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (15:57)", "body": "Sorry Hilary, but I guess I need something a little more tangible here. What would JA have us believe was the reason Darcy trusted her? Amy? By the way, I like my guys a little cocky (I think it's from growing up in a locker room). As long as their area of confidence doesn't opress me. I don't feel there is such thing as 100% confidence, it's an act, but I do believe they can feel confident in certain areas of their life i.e. sports, career, appearance (hmmm), talents, etc.. I know men like this. In some cases I think it's sexy."}, {"response": 29, "author": "norma", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (16:08)", "body": "Sharon, You expressed what I was trying to say, but you said it much better. Yes, Lizzy did blurt out the info to Darcy, but she would never have told just anybody--I can't think of any other character in the book she would have been so open with. People of the age were extremely reserved and controlled--like Elinor in S&S also. Linda, remember than when Lizzy first meets Darcy at Pemberly she is extremely embarrassed at what he might think of her by finding her there. However, his treatment of her co vinces her that he is still in love with her--remember the night when she works through it all and is convinced that \"ardent love\" explains friendly actions toward her and the Gardiners. Only because she is convinced of his love does she tell him the news of Lydia's elopement. Of course, she can't know what he will do with the information. Thanks to all of you who looked up the passage in the book. I find the relationship between Jane and Elizabeth interesting. I think Jane confides more in Elizabeth than the other way around. That seems to imply that Elizabeth does not trust Jane completely. Elizabeth is also very proud, of course, and if Darcy would not come back, she could not bear to be pitied as Jane had been pitied after the Bingley affair. I liked the point someone made that Elizabeth certainly did not tell Collins what she thought of him when he made his proposal. Only with Darcy is she totally honest--she is honest again in the inn in telling him about Lydia."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (16:33)", "body": "I just want to congratulate all the posters above. I've thoroughly enjoyed this whole topic, although I have nothing new or informative to add. I agree with so much of the above that it's just nice to read! I love listening in on such an intelligent conversation!!;-)"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (17:22)", "body": "Dina, we might have to reconcile ourselves to disagree. I think JA used and enjoyed intangibility, and I certainly thrive on it."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (17:46)", "body": "Good point! I don't know if you read Darcy's Story , but I felt like the first half of the book didn't answer this question either. I am into additional insite when it comes to this book. That's why the constant viewings, the reading of sequels etc. Sometimes I think my whole life is a veritable intangible."}, {"response": 33, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "[...it's sad when Charlotte marries Mr. Collins, Lizzie loses her best friend & confidante ] Yes, Amy, and this kind of contributes to her part in the intimacey/trust which grows between her and Darcy. She loses respect in Charlotte's judgement to some degree and although they are still friends, it will never be the same between them. While on the other hand, she starts to see Darcy with new eyes and her respect for him grows. [ Why does Darcy initially trust Lizzie? Does she really give him any reason to trust her?] Dina, as I said, initially , she was totally honest with him about what she thought of him, and that was a new experience for him. She's a straight shooter. But he didn't really need for her to prove herself. He was drawn to her, wanted to believe she could be discrete, and on some level he was reaching out to her via the letter. [I think Jane confides more in Elizabeth than the other way around. That seems to imply that Elizabeth does not trust Jane completely.] Norma, it may not be trust that is missing here. I could be that Jane just does not see the world the way Elizabeth does and Elizabeth knows that. Jane may just not be able to understand Elizabeth and one of the things we seek when we trust and confide is understanding - and not for someone to agree, but just know where we are coming from. Look at the difference in the conversation of Lydia's elopement between Darcy and Elizabeth and Jane and Elizabeth. Darcy and Elizabeth jive very well. \" You know him to well to doubt the rest.\" But then with Jane - forget about it. Jane still did not believe Wickham capable of 'such an attempt'."}, {"response": 34, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (23:17)", "body": "And what about this, girls: Does Darcy even propose again? Did he even directly ask her? Or did they each just take it as a given since his sentiments and wishes had NOT changed and hers HAD. Think about it. If this is a marriage proposal, \" You are to generous to trifle with me. If your feelings are still what they were last April tell me so at once. My affections and wishes are unchanged; but one word from you will silence me on this subject forever.\"; and her acceptance is to respond that her feelings had changed, then these two HAD to be pretty damn connected if each were clear on the point. What do you think, Hil?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (00:30)", "body": "\"but one word from you will silence me on this subject forever\" I think this line contains the implication of a proposal. A man only gets two chances to ask (unless he's Henry Crawford), this then is his second and last."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (01:47)", "body": "Sharon - I have to agree with Ann that his sentiments are a proposal. If he had said that to me, I would have thought it was a proposal. And the finality to the statement \"but one word from you will silence me on this subject forever,\" it is similar to Wentworth says one look from you and I will enter your father's house tonight or never. I know I love Darcy/CF's stuttering and stammering because to me it shows how Lizzy has totally unnerved him. He has no control over himself in her presence. As has been posted, extreme dependency is bad but seeing a man so much in control of himself lose it is great! Sure its gushy, romantic stuff but seeing someone react in a way that corresponds to the butterflies and lightheadedness you feel when you are infaturated or in love is wonderful. BTW, this is a great topic; thanks for your insight Hilary and everyone else who has posted."}, {"response": 37, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (04:17)", "body": "I do not see the self-revelations of Darcy and Elizabeth to one another as much a matter of deep instinctive trust as a matter of pride - especially on Darcy's part. At the moment of his deep personal revelation, he has yet to recognize that his own pride is \"excessive\" and has not begun the change that is later to come following self-reflection stimulated by Lizzie's criticisms. In the novel after the second proposal he asks that Lizzie destroy the letter which was written in bitterness and anger. His main motives at the time were that the truth be known and that he not be though ill of unjustly . He places a high value on truth - disguise of every sort is his abhorrence. For this reason, too, he can not find any fault in his separation of Bingley from Jane. He believed his actions to be honorable and based on fact. Of course it is true that both Darcy and Elizabeth have characters which are fundamentally trustworthy, and neither had any reason to fear that a confidence would be broken by the other. When Lizzie receives the news about Lydia and Wickham, and as fate would have it, immediately encounters the one person in the world with whom she can speak regarding Wickham's duplicity, the one whom she knows has cause to understand just how devastating this news really is, she is far too upset to give a thought to what such a revelation might mean to any hopes that she might later be entertaining regarding the possibility of Darcy's renewing his addresses to her. She knows that he, among all ot ers, will understand what she is feeling, and that he will respect her confidence, and in the emotion of the moment, reveals all. She does not, however, trust him enough to believe that he could possibly have a good enough opinion of her to overcome the \"pollution\" of having Wickham as a brother-in-law. And she, too, has her pride. During the ensuing weeks in which the hasty wedding makes it possible that the scandal will not become universally known, she begins to regret ever having told Darcy anything about it. Even if she is never to see Darcy again, she does not want to be thought ill of. Davies condenses many pages of Lizzie's state of inner turmoil into a single line which she speaks to Jane, \"I shall probably never see him again, [but] I cannot bear to think he is alive in the world and thinking ill of me.\" And in looking back, this is exactly what Darcy was feeling at the time that he had made his own unpleasant secret known. I shall probably never see her again, [but] I cannot bear to think she is alive in the world and thinking ill of me.\""}, {"response": 38, "author": "norma", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "Joan, I love the way you connected the line Elizabeth speaks: \"I can't bear to think that he is alive in the world and thinking ill of me\" to Darcy's he same sentiment when he is writing his letter. Since they both trusted the other as a person of the greatest integrity (Darcy first, then Elizabeth later), you are right in that both would want to be understood by the other as a person of integrity himself. In response to the second proposal, I think it is implicit in the words \"my affections and wishes are unchanged\"--his wish was to marry Elizabeth. I also agree with those who commented that Darcy seems too self-sufficient at first. I think he was. Part of his humbling was recognizing his need for another person to complete his happiness. He becomes vulnerable by recognizing his need for intimacy."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (09:35)", "body": "Okay, everybody.You are teaching me something. So vulnerable isn't all bad. That's quite a concept for me."}, {"response": 40, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (11:47)", "body": "Amy, I would say that human relationships are not even possible unless there's some vulnerability displayed on both sides. We have to open ourselves up enough to get hurt perhaps, but also to let the other person in. Now I have known desperately needy people who are looking to be \"rescued,\" but that's an extreme example. It kind of comes down to the: \"Better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all\" mantra. If Darcy hadn't allowed himself to be at least somewhat vulnerable, he never wou d have proposed to Lizzy in the first place! Likewise, her vulnerability at the Inne when she is emotionally distraught & crying only _increases_ Darcy's attraction to her. As far as the trust issue is concerned, what did Lizzy do to deserve Darcy's before he writes his letter? She was utterly open to him about her opinion of the Collins' marriage, and thus displays her good sense. From their parrys at Netherfield (her stay, and at the ball) he sees she is a witty, intelligent person -- not frivolous r silly like her younger sisters. She also obviously cares deeply about her sister Jane as she needles him continually with this at Rosings. She has an insight into character -- she tries to understand his at the ball, and shows that she DOES understand him during the piano scene at Rosings. So if you put this all together, he realizes he's dealing with a smart woman possessive of extraordinary aplomb and integrity."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (12:54)", "body": "I think you have helped me answer my own question: Lizzie is honest but she is also mature. She even states at one point to her Aunt Gardiner (I think) that \"we may have all been misled about Mr. Wickham\" That is all she need say regarding him without divulging specific information. I think when she showed her concern for \"a most beloved sister\" he knows that she will keep his secret about his \"most beloved sister\". What do you think JA would make of all this analyzation? This has been very insightful."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (13:47)", "body": "Amy, Re: response #16....sorry! I guess when I think of P&P...I think more of the movie than of the novel...."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (15:26)", "body": "] I guess when I think of P&P...I think more of the movie than of the novel.... __ Me too, Linda. I have to catch myself."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "Dina, (#32) I'm sorry, haven't read Darcy's Story, so can't comment on that. '. It could be that Jane just does not see the world the way Elizabeth does and Elizabeth knows that. Jane may just not be able to understand Elizabeth and one of the things we seek when we trust and confide is understanding - and not for someone to agree, but just know where we are coming from. ' I think this is right. About the proposal: I absolutely agree with you, Sharon. I love that intangibility about the proposal. I don't think there is any doubt that is a proposal, but as others have said, it is implicit instead of stated directly. I too think they are 'pretty damn connected.' And even if they did talk about it more directly - Elizabeth recieved 'with gratitude and pleasure, his present assurances'- JA thinks we don't need to know in detail. Joan, I agree that pride has a lot to do with how they both react, but I also feel there is that deeper level of trust going on as well. BTW I really like your connection here: '.\" And in looking back, this is exactly what Darcy was feeling at the time that he had made his own unpleasant secret known. I shall probably never see her again, [but] I cannot bear to think she is alive in the world and thinking ill of me.\" I also like your connection, Dina: 'I think when she showed her concern for \"a most beloved sister\" he knows that she will keep his secret about his \"most beloved sister\". And lastly to Karen, 'seeing a man so much in control of himself lose it is great! Sure its gushy, romantic stuff but seeing someone react in a way that corresponds to the butterflies and lightheadedness you feel when you are infatuated or in love is wonderful.' I think the stammers and figets are the outward sign of the inner butterflies and lightheadedness. We all (men and women) get them all."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "Amy and Linda - I know Davies uses creative license with some scenes with Lizzy and Jane but they were close. True they may not be as close as Lizzy and Charlotte (until Mr. Collins) but I almost got the impression some of these posts were implying Jane and Lizzy did not have a close relationship."}, {"response": 46, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (23:23)", "body": "Dina, that's a very astute connection I didn't make when I was thinking about Lizzy caring so much for Jane. I guess we can say that Lizzie conducted herself so honorably in all of her other relationships, Darcy figured she would continue to do so with their own."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (23:57)", "body": "In response to the second proposal, I think it is implicit in the words \"my affections and wishes are unchanged\"--his wish was to marry Elizabeth. This was my impression also. During the first proposal, he first says that she must allow him to tell her how ardently he admires and loves her (\"my affections), then he asks her to end his suffering and consent to become his wife (his \"wish\"). I took his comments during the second proposal to mean that both of these remained unchanged"}, {"response": 48, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (02:49)", "body": "Amy: So vulnerable isn't all bad. That's quite a concept for me. Almost no quality (except, perhaps \"evil\"?) is all bad - but both extremes on any continuum are almost always \"bad.\" Both total invulnerability and total vulnerability are undesirable character traits. One renders us inhuman and the other, a perpetual victim. In order to be accessible to others, to be able to form viable relationships with others, we must be willing to open ourselves up to a certain amount of vulnerability (and trust), but we must also have the strength of \"character\" to avoid becoming so vulnerable to everything tiny thing that life hands us that we become incapacitated and unable to function."}, {"response": 49, "author": "IF", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (09:57)", "body": "With regard to the second proposal, I think in those days that if a man declared his love for a woman then it was a proposal. In the first proposal the only reason Darcy said at the end of his speech if Elizabeth would do him the honor of becoming his wife, was so the audience at home would know he was proposing. But, in the second proposal Davis just hopes we realize that Darcy is proposing again. Willoughby never said he loved Marianne in Sense and Sensibility because if he did it meant he proposed."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "Nice to see you back, Irene. How have you been?"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Dina", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (15:56)", "body": "Irene, good point about Willoughby! In order to be accessible to others, to be able to form viable relationships with others, we must be willing to open ourselves up to a certain amount of vulnerability (and trust), but we must also have the strength of \"character\" to avoid becoming so vulnerable to everything tiny thing that life hands us that we become incapacitated and unable to function. So how do we know where to draw the line? Where does discretion end and avarice begin? (Was that about Wickham or Darcy?) I could write a book about this and I have never been married/divorced. I am more the \"don't-trust-enough-school\" rather than a co-dependent. I am tired of getting hurt. It takes me 4- 5 years to psych myself up to get into more than just a casual relationship again (which I am, ironically, in the process of doing now). How can we end up as lucky as Lizzie? Maybe the fact that e even consider it means we realize there might be a bad ending. Grrrr!!! . I get so frustrated, I guess I think too much :-)"}, {"response": 52, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (17:17)", "body": "Dina: So how do we know where to draw the line? This is one of the major mysteries of life, is it not? (This and \"why were we put here anyway?\") And also the grist from which so much of great literature and other art forms are made. It is a topic which never ceases to fasacinate - probably because the answer is different for every individual. There is no magic formula to be had. Lizzie ends up lucky because her creator chose to have her be so, and as author had the power to make it so - though in real life it might well have been otherwise. Our creator has chosen to let us work it out for ourselves. And some of us do think too much! :-)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (19:12)", "body": "[I think in those days that if a man declared his love for a woman then it was a proposal.] Good point.-"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "spring won't accept this in one hit - I'm going to try it as 2 messages I've been reading this thread with great interest, but have been too busy to paticipate in the discussion. Today things are quieter and I can't resist the temptation to join in; the discussion has been complex, I can't address my comments as answers to any particular one of the earlier posts, so I'll just jump in. For me trust resonates and is very much tied up with love. I too have known people whom I liked and trusted almost at sight; some are still close friends but with others my first impression turned out to be wrong (much like love at first sight, at least as I've experienced it). Also I tend to trust the people I love; I can't imagine liking or loving an adult I couldn't trust, although there are people in whose integrity I trust but whom I cannot really like. For me, in the first heady, euphoric days of being in love, when one may not really know the beloved all that well but believes them possessed of all virtues, trusting the belvoed is part of being in love. I think Darcy trusts Elizabeth because he loves her. So far as we know he hasn't had a chance to assess her trustworthiness - all that he can really know is that her manners are good and she is pretty and witty and clever, but he is in love with her and can't bear to have her misjudge him and takes her trustworthiness on faith. I think the case is a little different with Elizabeth's confiding in Darcy. The letter Darcy wrote to her, and the visits to Pemberly have shown her that he is responsible, reliable, and she knows of his care for his sister and other dependents. Furthermore Elizabeth has just found out about Lydia, has no hope of concealing her distress and tells Darcy in the 'heat of the moment' when she might not have done so if he had arrived after she had spoken with the Gardiners. I think Elizabeth is begining to e in love with Darcy at this point, but she has more 'rational' grounds for trusting and loving Darcy at this point than he did to love and trust her. In fact JA specifically tells us that Lizzy is forming an attachment in 'a less interesting manner'."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "part the second With regard to vulnerability, I find it attractive because of the (usually) implied trust - my maternal instinct is deficient, I rarely feel an urge to protect others, and almost never adults unless they're sick. Mostly if someone lets you see their weaknesses it's because they like and trust you, although occaisionallyit's because their distress is such that the facade cannot be maintained. When Darcy runs into Lizzy at Pemberly I think the latter case holds; I think he'd prefer to maintain the facade at that point, but Lizzy disturbs him so, and he had no warning. I find it cute for Lizzy's sake; if someone makes you uncomfortable it's nice to know they're not indifferent to you, and in this case we have reason to suspect it's because he's still in love with Lizzy. I find constancy in love attractive, when the beloved is worthy. Generally I distrust people who always maintain an unruffled facade, for much the same reasons as Anne Elliot; if I never see any burst of feeling, any sign of anger or delight, I don't feel I know the person at all, and I tend to wonder what it is they are concealing behind the mask. (I realise it may just be shyness, but on prolonged aquaitance such extreme reserve still makes me uneasey)."}, {"response": 56, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (20:30)", "body": "[I think Darcy trusts Elizabeth because he loves her. .... JA specifically tells us that Lizzy is forming an attachment in 'a less interesting manner.] Right on point, Anna. I don't think Darcy thought twice about trusting her. And it is true that everyone comes to Love and Trust in different ways. I think Elizabeth, realizing that the way she came to love him was this gradual process as she came to know him, was interested in HOW differently he came to love her. She knew he could not have known her at first as he then does. Even in his answer to her,\" I cannot fix on the hour, or the spot, or the words, or the look,...', he just DID."}, {"response": 57, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (22:04)", "body": "Just as there are differences in degrees of vulnerability , there are differences in levels of trust which we accord to others. I would not hesitate to tell my closest friend the most intimate family detail; I trust her not to tell anyone else. While I might trust a colleague with information about a problem student, I would not be likely to tell him/her about my family problems. On the Spring here we share a lot, even though we do not know each other in the sense of meeting face to face. And, I trust everyone enough to lend out a video tape to some of you, as one of you has trusted me enough to let me borrow \"Darcy's Story.\" I think we all make mistakes in trusting/not trusting certain people, but maybe we learn from these mistakes. Elizabeth made a mistake in trusting Wickham -- she believed he was telling the truth, and she assumed (I think) that he would not repeat anything she said. She was wrong, at least about believing him. But there were others she did not trust (at least as far as their motives), such as Miss Bingley when she flamed Wickham to Lizzy. While Elizabeth was correct in assessing Miss B's motives, she was wrong about the information given. I continue to try to learn from each new relationship, no matter what level of trust is required. I do not want to stop trusting, or what's the point of living in a society. I do want to make informed decisions, however, so maybe I try to decide with less emotion -- difficult at times, I know, but necessary perhaps. Just as vulnerability can be attractive, so can having someone trust you. It is a sign of great respect and affection to be trusted -- to keep a secret, to listen with an open mind, to be there as a friend when needed. So, Darcy trusting Elizabeth to keep his secret is incredibly gratifying, and attractive -- it shows how highly he thinks of her that he would risk his sister's reputation in order to explain himself to her."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (22:58)", "body": "I continue to try to learn from each new relationship, no matter what level of trust is required. I do not want to stop trusting, or what's the point of living in a society. I do want to make informed decisions, however, so maybe I try to decide with less emotion -- difficult at times, I know, but necessary perhaps. A very healthy and growth-oriented way to live, Kathleen! I applaud you."}, {"response": 59, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (23:56)", "body": "Kathleen the Elder: That's a very cogent analysis, and I agree with every point. However, I would say in response to some of the above that Darcy trusts Lizzy _not merely because_ he loves her; she has proven to him through her words and actions that she is: 1) Intelligent and discerning in her opinions 2) Capable of forming and holding onto deep attachments, as with Jane & Charlotte 3) Ethical and not obsequious, as when they have their debate at Netherfield. His attraction and love for her of course increases his trust, but I think that she has, albeit unconsciously, inspired it just by being herself."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Dina", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (11:57)", "body": "There are times when we all have a bad-luck-streak in relationships (with men and women) so we tend to get into that comfort zone where we don't make efforts with new people - causing us to possibly miss out on some great relationships. A comfort zone means no trust, which means, as Anna says, no growth. What is the point of life if not to grow (and learn)? I think as adults we all know this, but at times, it is easier said than done. In a way, that is why we gravitate to these Austen books. People who hazzard to trust, have success. Lizzie and Darcy trust and are then \"blessed\" for their efforts. Maybe it's not just the romance that is attractive, it's the taking of a chance, trusting, and being rewarded."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (22:00)", "body": "Anna, I agree that trust is part of love, and being in love. I think when you say D 'takes her trustworthiness on faith', and E comes to love in 'a less interesting manner', you are saying much the same as I was when I talked about their conscious relationship. But I must still agree with Amy2: 'His attraction and love for her of course increases his trust, but I think that she has, albeit unconsciously, inspired it just by being herself.' Kathleen said 'Just as vulnerability can be attractive, so can having someone trust you. It is a sign of great respect and affection to be trusted -- to keep a secret, to listen with an open mind, to be there as a friend when needed' I agree. I also think that since sexuality has as much to do with an attraction of minds as it does to attraction of bodies, that the offer of trust or vulnerability can enhance sexual attraction. And to Dina: 'In a way, that is why we gravitate to these Austen books. People who hazzard to trust, have success. Lizzie and Darcy trust and are then \"blessed\" for their efforts. Maybe it's not just the romance that is attractive, it's the taking of a chance, trusting, and being rewarded.' It is certainly this that continues my interest, except I would say that the importance is on the struggle to take the chance, to trust, to not give up on tackling the hard issues, whether you get rewarded or not. Both D and E do not know they will get rewarded, but they are driven to do what they think is right. But of course it is delicious for us that JA allows their trust to be rewarded! (I think my very first post was about this!)"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "I think what you folks have been discussing is: Does Darcy trust her because he loves her? or does he love her because he trusts her?--or both? These both seem to go hand in hand, each time trust is increased the ratchet of love moves up another notch, and every time love is increased the ratchet of trust moves up a notch."}, {"response": 63, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (11:05)", "body": "Ann, that's a very wise remark. I couldn't agree more. Trust and love MUST GO hand-in-hand, if you don't want to head for the rocks in a relationship."}, {"response": 64, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (20:02)", "body": "Going back to that chat room conversation: 'But can't their be respect and kindness and charity within a guy who is sure of himself'? The more I think about this, the more I think that that you are more likely to get that from guys who are (relatively - not arrogantly) sure of themselves. Confidence, self-acceptance, and being not too threatened yourself, usually give more capacity to accept others with respect, kindness, and charity, because you are not too worried about your own resilience."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (20:06)", "body": "] Confidence, self-acceptance, and being not too threatened yourself, usually give more capacity to accept others with respect, kindness, and charity, because you are not too worried about your own resilience. __ Right. And being secure about -- forgive the pop psych talk -- one's personal power insures against the temptation to use over power over another."}, {"response": 66, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (11:17)", "body": "I agree. The more messed up a person is, the less likely they're going to be able to have a successful relationship."}, {"response": 67, "author": "genie", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "I have just discovered this thread and read with great interest all the comments posted here. I could not help but post my own rreaction, although I 'm sure someone has already expressed the same and much more eloquently than I can possibly do. Here we are discussing characters from a 200-year-old novel as though they were our friends, family, and acquaintances. For many of us, I'm sure, Elizabeth and Darcy have been part of our daily lives for over a year. For an author to have created such livin characters, with such nuances of personality, and for us to discover new and different facets of those characters and personalities (after all these months of dissecting!) and to find a new source of relevance to our own lives ... this to me, as a wannabe and frustrated writer and incurable ropmantic, is absolutely mind-boggling. Thank you, Jane Austen."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "She had some magic, didn't she, Genie?"}, {"response": 69, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (11:29)", "body": "The enduring quality of Austen's work truly is amazing. I wonder what other writer has inspired so much devotion (maybe Shakespeare)? It's true -- in my daily life, I can always point to people & say, \"There's Mr. Collins! There goes Lady Catherine!\" The universality of JA's characters endures even after 200 years."}, {"response": 70, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (12:56)", "body": "Amy2 - Oh yes! In terms of universality, she's right up there. I've always thought that she and Chaucer shared the unique ability to reveal characters that are instantly recognizable, without being cariacatured \"types.\" And they (JA and Chaucer) share a sense of humor about their characters as well, which helps me enormously when I encounter these folks in real life....."}, {"response": 71, "author": "jane", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (13:31)", "body": "Amy2, Oh, dear! Yes, one does find Mr. Collinses and Lady Catherines in daily life, but I hope you find some Darcys, Elizabeths, and Mr. Bingleys, too! Jane"}, {"response": 72, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (10:49)", "body": "In the film industry, I run into a great deal of Lady C's & Mr. Collinses, Alas!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (23:11)", "body": "A little gem (amidst a treasure trove) from 'Middlemarch': 'He distrusted her affection; and what loneliness is more lonely than distrust?"}, {"response": 74, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "Hilary -- that is beautiful. Good writing shows, does it not, in the ability to use just the right word in the best way. Would Darcy have completely trusted Elizabeth's affection if she had accepted his first proposal? At some future time, when the physical attraction was not so strong, would he have wondered whether she married him for his money/position etc.? If so, the distrust could have caused intense loneliness."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:01)", "body": "I agree about the right words, Kathleen. The other is too hypothetical! But I know what you mean. 'The Look' scene, both in book and on film is all bound up with mutual love and trust, too, sandwiched neatly in between the two letter scenes. Lizzy is showing him that not only is his secret safe, but that she can be trusted to actively help protect his sister."}, {"response": 76, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (19:34)", "body": "Oh, yes, Hilary. The first part of the look is almost like saying \"this is too good to be true.\" Elizabeth is beautiful, but he sees that she is so much more. She is kind to Georgiana (encouraging G. to perform) as well as protective of her feelings and reputation. Elizabeth, much as she clearly resents Miss Bingley's comments, does not retaliate even though she could probably more than hold her own in a battle of wits. She acts in the best interest of the people who are becoming important to her. I love the description of Darcy's LOOK in the novel. \"While she [Elizabeth] spoke, an involuntary glance shewed her Darcy with an heightened complexion, earnestly looking at her . . . . Elizabeth's collected behaviour, however, soon quieted his emotion; . . . and the very circumstance which had been designed to turn his thoughts from Elizabeth, seemed to have fixed them on her more, and more cheerfully.\""}, {"response": 77, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (20:06)", "body": "Sigh."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Kathleen writes: I love the description of Darcy's LOOK in the novel. \"While she [Elizabeth] spoke, an involuntary glance shewed her Darcy with an heightened complexion, earnestly looking at her . . . . Elizabeth's collected behaviour, however, soon quieted his emotion; . . . and the very circumstance which had been designed to turn his thoughts from Elizabeth, seemed to have fixed them on her more, and more cheerfully.\" He was quieted. In the film, he looked relieved. Lizzy played hero! She rescued Georgiana. How nice it can be to be around strong women sometimes, he might have been thinking. How nice to be able of offload the hero duties."}, {"response": 79, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (10:52)", "body": "If Elizabeth had accepted Darcy after his first proposal. . .she never would have done do unless she were in love with him, and in their future marriage, I'm sure he could pick that up. As far as Lizzy rescuing Georgiana: I've often wondered why she didn't let Miss Bingly have it when she goes off about Wickham; but you're right, she was more concerned with trying to protect Georgiana. In fact, I've noticed that Lizzy rarely responds directly to Caroline's frontal attacks. She either lets them pass, or makes some concilatory remark. Great forebearance!"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "'How nice it can be to be around strong women sometimes, he might have been thinking. How nice to be able of offload the hero duties.' What a good point, Amy. Do you think there is an element of feeling Caroline's social superiority in Lizzy's reactions to her, Amy2? I know she is not usually cowered by this, but sometimes I think proprietry it a reason for her holding her tongue."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (14:18)", "body": "] Do you think there is an element of feeling Caroline's social superiority in Lizzy's reactions to her, Amy2? I know she is not usually cowered by this, but sometimes I think proprietry it a reason for her holding her tongue. __ I hope Lizzy would not admit any difference in their classes. (\"I am a gentleman's daughter?\") On the other hand, she is usually the guest when she is around Caroline, since Caroline does not often visit Lizzy. So maybe it is propriety, but not the class-conscious kind?"}, {"response": 82, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "I think Lizzy knows Caroline very well, better than Caroline knows herself, perhaps. Lizzy is superior to Caroline, but does not feel the need to flaunt it. And Amy, you are probably right about Lizzy being the guest -- she talks to Caroline at Netherfield when Jane is sick & again at the ball, then she at Pemberley. But she does answer Caroline cuttingly when the Wickham warning is given at the ball. And she does stand up for herself when Caroline comments on Lizzy having no pleasure in anything but reading. Caroline's rudeness is at least partly due to the fact that she sees Lizzy as a rival for Darcy's attention. In the first part of the novel Lizzy doesn't see that, and wouldn't care anyway."}, {"response": 83, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (10:48)", "body": "I have a feeling that if Lizzy is so forthright in her dealings with Lady Catherine, then she wouldn't be cowed by Caroline's social status. I think she holds her tongue in company out of politeness. For the same reason Darcy doesn't slap Mr. Collins, or tell Mrs. Bennet to shut up. . ."}, {"response": 84, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (12:31)", "body": "At Netherfield Caroline is the acknowledged hostess, and it would be in very poor taste to ''spar'' with her. I think that this respect for Caroline's position in the house is also the reason for her accepting the invitation to ''walk around the room' with Caroline. At Pemberly I agree that her lack of reaction was done to protect Georgiana, but also to send Darcy the message that she doesn't care enough about Wickham to bother discussing him. In the book she is acutely aware of Caoline's close attention to Darcy and herself, and wants to show herself to be in accord with his wishes. His main aim for having Lizzy come to Pemberly was to become better acquainted with Georgiana, not to verbally rip Ms. Bingley. When we are in love with someone, we want everyone else we love to love them too!"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (12:32)", "body": "At Netherfield Caroline is the acknowledged hostess, and it would be in very poor taste to ''spar'' with her. I think that this respect for Caroline's position in the house is also the reason for her accepting the invitation to ''walk around the room' with Caroline. At Pemberly I agree that her lack of reaction was done to protect Georgiana, but also to send Darcy the message that she doesn't care enough about Wickham to bother discussing him. In the book she is acutely aware of Caroline's close attention to Darcy and herself, and wants to show herself to be in accord with his obvious wish to be discreet. His main aim for having Lizzy come to Pemberly was to become better acquainted with Georgiana, not to verbally rip Ms. Bingley. When we are in love with someone, we want everyone else we love to love them too!"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (17:50)", "body": "'maybe it is propriety, but not the class-conscious kind? ' Yes, I think that is what I was trying to get at. She also has fine judgement on when it is worth defending herself, and when it is better to let it go by....I think maybe someone already said that?"}, {"response": 87, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (22:44)", "body": "In fact, I've noticed that Lizzy rarely responds directly to Caroline's frontal attacks. She either lets them pass, or makes some concilatory remark. Great forebearance! And it goes to show she is mature, solid citizen and has a lot of class."}, {"response": 88, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (10:52)", "body": "Yes, she is a model to us all. I would probably just come out swinging. . ."}, {"response": 89, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (14:13)", "body": "It shows she is truly more of a lady than Caroline Bingley can ever hope to be. But Caroline will never come to realize the difference, because she bases her judgements on superficial attributes, not that which is truly valuable."}, {"response": 90, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (11:01)", "body": "Yes, like money and air and countenance."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (13:39)", "body": "I'll take Wit, Temper and Understanding any day."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (16:26)", "body": "re 80, 81 I suspect that by the strict rules of the time the Bennets were superior in rank to the Bingley's; the Bennets seem to have been gentry for some time and the Bingleys were Nouveau Riche. I've often wondered if some of the Bingley sisters' insufferable manner arose from trying to hard to forget their father was a merchant. If they had been sent to one of the 'ladies seminaries' to learn society manners their school fellows may have teased them about their 'low connections'."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (16:43)", "body": "That's a good point, Anna. I've always thought the Bingley sisters were trying to overcome their father's \"trade\" background, but hadn't thought about them being teased at school! That probably made them even more insufferably snobbish than before!"}, {"response": 94, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:40)", "body": "So you mean they would wish to put miles and miles between themselves and anybody even slightly contaminated with low connections living in Cheapside or being a countryside lawyer. Trying desperately to approach 'the Darcy part' of society. That makes sense.And the early Darcy might have encouraged such behaviour... Have you been considering whether Lizzy's forbearance with Caroline could have something to do with Jane's happiness? It would do them no good if Bingley considered his future sister-in-law to be rude to his sister. And Lizzy was rather convinced that they were to be engaged... (Sorry if this has already been up, I have read only 25 messages...I can never catch up it seems)"}, {"response": 95, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "Which brings up another question: Why did Darcy associate with someone who had a trade background? Seems to me to be an irony here. I know he met Bingley at school (or am I mixing up my novels). Wouldn't he be put off by his pride in associating with someone in trade? Yet Lizzie's family isn't up to snuff. That would hold with Caroline's behavior; it's money not breeding. Is that what Darcy thought too? Does this make sense?"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (16:43)", "body": "I've wondered about the age difference between Darcy and Bingley. At 4-5 years, it is hard to believe they would have gotten to know eachother at school. If they met at Cambridge, Darcy would have been through the university before Bingley arrived, and if, as the novel suggests, they met earlier, what was darcy doing hanging around someone 4 years younger (can you see a Junior in high school haging around with someone from junior high? or a 6th grader with a second grader?)"}, {"response": 97, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (16:56)", "body": "I think there was 3-1/2 to four years between Bingley and Darcy. We know that at the beginning of the book, Bingley was 23 (we don't know when his birthday was so it could have been August) and Darcy was 27. In my story \"Young Fitz\" they meet at school (Darcy is a prefect when Bingley enters Eton and becomes one of the \"fags\" for the older boys. OK, OK - before you all stone me, the youngest boys at English boarding school are fags for the prefects which means they fetch and carry and do all their chores for them, including cleaning their shoes, making tea and toast, etc.) I'm just not sure whether they were called fags in those days, so will probably find another term for the purposes of my story. A modern reader might also mix it up with cigarettes!!;-) As to the fact that the Bingleys' father had made his money in trade, he'd probably made so much and had made sure of the best schools for his children that it wasn't a question any more of where the money came from or their breeding. On the other hand, Darcy saw the vulgarity of Mrs. Bennet and Mrs. Philips and could see there was no breeding there!"}, {"response": 98, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (17:05)", "body": "With Eton, my guess is that very few things would have changed over only 200 years. They were probably fags back then too."}, {"response": 99, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (19:06)", "body": "re 97, 98 I'd imagined something along those lines too, there have been fags (at in unpaid page type servant) at Eton since the beginning I think. re 95; if they had met at school I doubt it was the money Darcy approve of in Bingley; Darcy is even richer an it's \"old money\". Howver Darcy is basically a nice bloke although reserved and it'd be hard not to like Bingley. Also Darcy might have trouble making new friends and thus find Bingley's outgoing nature attractive - Bingley might do most of the social 'maintenance'."}, {"response": 100, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:12)", "body": "Inko, I seem to remember fags in \"Tom Brown's School Days\", which set about the same time, I think. It was one of the first Masterpiece Theatre productions I ever saw."}, {"response": 101, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (23:16)", "body": "[ Also Darcy might have trouble making new friends and thus find Bingley's outgoing nature attractive -] Bing! Bing! Bing! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 155, "subject": "Where to buy stuff we crave", "response_count": 34, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (00:13)", "body": "Oh yes, for Christmas Santa(me) got The E.M Forster Trilogy Music from A Room With A View, MAURICE, and Howards End. I adore it. a must have for Classical music fans. Well must ring off talk soon. 2 new of 2 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 125 of 177 [austen]: Went into the chat room too late Response 1 of 2: Amy (Amy) * Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (16:02) * 6 lines The E.M Forster Trilogy Music from A Room With A View, MAURICE, and Howards End. __ Tell more, Roar. Label, which section of the record store you found it in. Good weekend to you, too. When is Santa (you) going to get a computer at home? You realize it is really child abuse not to get one for your daughter... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 125 of 177 [austen]: Went into the chat room too late Response 2 of 2: Laura McCarthy (LauraM) * Mon, Jan 6, 1997 (09:46) * 3 lines Well I'm trying to get one from work. Hopefully soon. Mom has a computer at home so its not really child abuse. Okay the cd is from Angel records. I bought it at Borders Bookstore, but I have seen it at HMV. $32.99 (US). I found it under sountracks, I was originally looking for ARWAV soundtrack, but found this instead."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (00:16)", "body": "| Main Menu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 139 of 178: Duchess of Duke Street on video Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (06:41) | Carolyn Esau (Carolyn) For those who were looking for it earlier, The Duchess of Duke Street is now on video. It is available from Signals (PBS) catalog. 13 hours on 7 cassettes. Item #52804....$149.99 Phone orders 1 800 6699 9696 Fax orders 1 612 645 7092 International orders (including Canada) 1 800 669 5225 or 01 612 659 4312 for areas outside of toll free range. 1 response total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 139 of 178 [austen]: Duchess of Duke Street on video Response 1 of 1: Carolyn Esau (Carolyn) * Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (06:46) * 1 lines 1 800 669 9696 is the correct phone number. Sorry."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (00:20)", "body": "| Main Menu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 139 of 178: Duchess of Duke Street on video Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (06:41) | Carolyn Esau (Carolyn) For those who were looking for it earlier, The Duchess of Duke Street is now on video. It is available from Signals (PBS) catalog. 13 hours on 7 cassettes. Item #52804....$149.99 Phone orders 1 800 6699 9696 Fax orders 1 612 645 7092 International orders (including Canada) 1 800 669 5225 or 01 612 659 4312 for areas outside of toll free range. 1 response total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 139 of 178 [austen]: Duchess of Duke Street on video Response 1 of 1: Carolyn Esau (Carolyn) * Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (06:46) * 1 lines 1 800 669 9696 is the correct phone number. Sorry."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (00:20)", "body": "Topic 140 of 178: BBC Emma already available on video Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (13:53) | Dina (Dina) Invalid command: only I get a catalogue called Critics Choice (800-367-7765) and they are offering the 1996 BBC version of Emma (with Kate Beckinsale and Dominc Rowan) for $14.77. We haven't even seen it here in America, but there it is. The # is AAANEO16081. 4 new of 4 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 140 of 178 [austen]: BBC Emma already available on video Response 1 of 4: Dina (Dina) * Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (13:58) * 1 lines By the way, I just noticed it said it would be available on 2/17/97. Hmmmm. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 140 of 178 [austen]: BBC Emma already available on video Response 2 of 4: Bernie Parkin (Bernie) * Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (11:15) * 1 lines Just to add to the confusion. The BBC didn't adapt \"Emma\" last year. I think you must be referring to Meridian/A&E co\ufffdproduction, which was aired over here in November. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 140 of 178 [austen]: BBC Emma already available on video Response 3 of 4: Dina (Dina) * Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (16:02) * 3 lines Yes, you are right. And to add more confusion, I see that Anne posted this same thing (even forgetting to put the delayed delivery date on her original posting) under the Emma line. Oops. Dina ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 140 of 178 [austen]: BBC Emma already available on video Response 4 of 4: Donna (Donna) * Sun, Feb 2, 1997 (09:26) * 5 lines VIDEO RELEASE DATES: A&E EMMA MARCH 7,1997 JN & GP APRIL 15,1997"}, {"response": 5, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (14:46)", "body": "I found Jane Eyre with Timothy Dalton at Fusion Video 29.98 telephone # is 1-800-959-0061. Of course because I fell in love with this version, I have ordered it. Fusion Video 17311 Fusion Way Country Club, IL 60478 If you call them they can send you a catalog"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (05:28)", "body": "English Patient screenplay: http://scripttutor.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/scripttu/sbfront?books.cgi?category=screenplay"}, {"response": 7, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (21:19)", "body": "Is there a P&P2 soudtrack available? If so I would be very interested in buying it and would appreciate any information on it."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "Lisa, look in the FAQ"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (14:16)", "body": "Topic 222 of 222: \"Pemberley Shades\" by Bonavia-Hunt, 1949 Sun, Mar 9, 1997 (13:37) | Bruce Rogers (Gypsy) Invalid command: only To anyone who can help: I am desperate to find a copy of the sequel to P&P called \"Pemberley Shades,\" (written by author Bonavia-Hunt and first published in 1949 by E.P. Dutton & Company,New York) for my wife. Please reply to brogers@forbes.com if you know where I can obtain a copy of this very hard to find book. 1 new of 1 response total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 222 of 222 [austen]: \"Pemberley Shades\" by Bonavia-Hunt, 1949 Response 1 of 1: Kate (kate) * Sun, Mar 9, 1997 (13:46) * 1 lines Bruce this will not be much help to you but anyway. I have a copy, but it is packed in a box in Australia with all my other books. I purchased it at a second had book shop in Australia for about $5. But I have no idea where you would be able to get one now - it has been out of print forever."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "I tried to find \"Pemberley Shades\" all over London last summer and had absolutely no luck - it is completely out of print. The only way seems to be to haunt second hand book stores and stalls at garage sales, etc."}, {"response": 11, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "I READ Pemberley Shades (checked it out from the UCLA Library). It's not worth searching for, sorry to say. Not that much better than Emma Tennant's stuff. Yech."}, {"response": 12, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "I think I agree with Amy. This is the one where Lizzy calls D \"Fitz\". Double Yech."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Belinda", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:56)", "body": "I'm in despair, I still can not find a copy of the making of P&P book. Tried all over Australia and on the net. If anyone knows of anywhere I can still pick it up could you please let me know?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Belinda", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:59)", "body": "Just noticed my email login's my currently out of action work one. Those with good tidings could email me alternatively at my home email: Bperry@cww.octec.org.au Or just post here of course!!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (05:23)", "body": "Bells, try Jane Austen Books at jabooks@aol.com...it's $21.95 US through them."}, {"response": 16, "author": "doone", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (18:43)", "body": "where can I find the Making of P&P2-- the video?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (18:52)", "body": "Oh, Lorna, that is the 64-dollar question -- we don't seem to be able to get it (in the US, at least) from any source."}, {"response": 18, "author": "doone", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (18:57)", "body": "Well, now I'm even more determined."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:22)", "body": "Just got the Jane Austen Books catalog, The making of P&P is called the \"darling of the internet\" - What ever could they mean?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:33)", "body": "Whaddaya think they mean, Anne? ;)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (15:49)", "body": "Our rep with those ladies is as whacky as theirs is with us."}, {"response": 22, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (19:51)", "body": "Or do they mean the \"Holy Grail of the internet\"? Which will never be found. Belinda, another source of the \"Making of P&P\" book is the Internet Bookstore online: http://www.bookshop.co.uk/ . They delivered within 2 weeks to the States, no problem."}, {"response": 23, "author": "doone", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:12)", "body": "FYI to those interested in buying the old P&P (1940). I just got this catalog in the mail from Critic's Choice Video \"The Movie Book\" and they have it! only $19.95 They also have P&P2 (1995) for only $74.77 the cheapest I've seen it.AND if that weren't enough, they have Emma2 for $14.77. their phone number is 800-367-7765. I'm so excited-- I had to spread the news because I couldn't find the movie anywhere. Please don't post a message telling me I'm going to hate it, you'll burst my bubble."}, {"response": 24, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "I just got the new A&E video catalog yesterday -- there is a \"Great Writers\" tape which is a bio of Jane Austen - I believe it's $19.95. I can provide more details if anyone is interested!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:45)", "body": "Amy2 -- I saw that biography video listed. Do you (or does anyone else) know if it is any good? I am always looking to expand my \"any and all things Jane Austen\" collection of books & videos. ;-)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "sandysearing", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "Does anyone know where I can get the \"Making of Emma\"?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (17:54)", "body": "Sandy, I ordered a copy from the Internet Bookshop at: http://www.bookshop.co.uk/ and it should be on its way. It may be available in the U.S. also but don't know where."}, {"response": 28, "author": "sandysearing", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (17:51)", "body": "Thanks, Inko. I was beginning to think it didn't exist!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "joanna", "date": "Wed, Apr  2, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "Like many others, I would like to get my own copy of The Making of Pride and Prejudice\". Our local bookstore tried very hard, even calling Penguin (USA) to see if they could strike a deal, but nothing doing. They gave us the address for Penguin (UK). I also found it at the Internet Bookshop. They claim to have secure ordering, but I wondered if I might have the opinions of others before venturing forth. I really, really, really would like a copy!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "fen", "date": "Wed, Apr  2, 1997 (16:53)", "body": "Joanna, Try this for others' opinions: http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wwwboard/ppbb.html A very informed group!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Apr  2, 1997 (21:55)", "body": "JoAnna, you can order through the Internet without giving your credit card number there. As you go through the order, you will see a phone number you can call and leave your number. They will confirm the shipment of your order by e-mail."}, {"response": 32, "author": "joanna", "date": "Thu, Apr  3, 1997 (07:18)", "body": "Thanks, Susan. You're a lifesaver!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "joanna", "date": "Thu, Apr  3, 1997 (11:17)", "body": "Also, a big thank you to Jake. Lots of interesting reading!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (08:00)", "body": "No problem, Joanna! That's one of the things I like best about the Internet -- people helping each other and sharing info. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 156, "subject": "Did you see the article about.....", "response_count": 34, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (08:03)", "body": "Moved from topic 144 _____ Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (21:42) | Claudia Bond (Pandora620) Invalid command: only There is a breath-taking picture of Jennifer Ehle in the article about the Oscar Wilde movie in February issue of Vanity Fair. She looks like Mrs. Darcy has become comfortable with wealth and fashion. Given her history with leading men I do believe she will find Stephen Fry very resistible. Mr. Firth you should have tried harder to secure this beauty! 13 new of 13 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 144 of 178 [austen]: Jennifer Ehle in February Vanity Fair Response 1 of 13: Linda Yelton (DaRcYfAn) * Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (16:46) * 2 lines Thanks for the alert... Linda In Georgia ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 144 of 178 [austen]: Jennifer Ehle in February Vanity Fair Response 2 of 13: Linda Yelton (DaRcYfAn) * Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (20:29) * 1 lines Claudia, I went out and got my own copy...it is a very nice picture...sounds like a sad part to play however! Again, thanks for the alert! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 144 of 178 [austen]: Jennifer Ehle in February Vanity Fair Response 3 of 13: Claudia Bond (Pandora620) * Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (01:02) * 2 lines Linda, in the alledged Firth-Ehle affair, who was the dumpor and who was the dumpee? Don't you think the picture looks like Mrs. Darcy would later in the marriage? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 144 of 178 [austen]: Jennifer Ehle in February Vanity Fair Response 4 of 13: Inko (Inko) * Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (15:28) * 1 lines This may not be the right thread for this, but in the February \"Tatler\" (a U.K. magazine that I saw at Crown books) there's an article/interview with Emilia Fox (Georgiana) and her role in Rebecca. Also some very glamorous photos of her in designer clothes. She's got her degree in English from Oxford and is now acting full time. Seems like a very nice, intelligent, young lady. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 144 of 178 [austen]: Jennifer Ehle in February Vanity Fair Response 5 of 13: Joan, too (jwinsor) * Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (00:45) * 1 lines Maybbe we need a more general thread for \"media updates\" or some such? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 144 of 178 [austen]: Jennifer Ehle in February Vanity Fair Response 6 of 13: Johanne (JohanneD) * Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (00:53) * 1 lines Renaming and pruning will be included in the spring cleaning ;) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 144 of 178 [austen]: Jennifer Ehle in February Vanity Fair Response 7 of 13: Linda Yelton (DaRcYfAn) * Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (17:47) * 1 lines Claudia....alledged affair????? Where have I been? Oh, COOL! Anyway, it could be Mrs. Darcy in later years...I was glad to see her back again with dark hair...Jennifer as a blond was hard to imagine (talk about getting the actress mixed up with the real life individual!) I would love to go see this movie with her in it...just hope it isn't too depressing! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 144 of 178 [austen]: Jennifer Ehle in February Vanity Fair Response 8 of 13: Arnessa (Arnessa) * Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (21:27) * 1 lines I read that SHE dumped him. Somewhere on Friends of Firth site, there's an articles section. In one of them, it quotes \"someone close to Ehle\" as saying she realized that he could never love her the way she wanted to be loved. (??!! I could make some rather crude comment here, but I'll refrain.) It would appear he's a rather emotionally distant person. Who knows? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 144 of 178 [austen]: Jennifer Ehle in February Vanity Fair Response 9 of 13: Susan Christie (Susan) * Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (21:48) * 1 lines And who cares! It's not really his mind that I'm most interested in! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 144 of 178 [austen]: Jennifer Ehle in February Vanity Fair Response 10 of 13: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (00:55) * 6 lines Susan: It's not really his mind that I'm most interested in! Susan, you are cutting quite a lacivious swath here at Spring today, and all I can say is You Go Girl! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 144 of 178 [austen]: Jennifer Ehle in February Vanity Fair Response 11 of 13: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (12:00) * 1 lines Cheryl, where there is passionate intrigue, I expect you to be there! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 144 of 178 [austen]: Jennifer Ehle in February Vanity Fair Response 12 of 13: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (16:31) * 1 lines ooh baby, ooh baby! ;-) ----------------------"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (08:08)", "body": "Topic 9 of 12 [austenarchive]: Ramble Response 346 of 362: Inko (Inko) * Sat, Feb 8, 1997 (19:27) * 7 lines Ann, So glad they found your car. Hope it'll be driveable soon!! There is a terrific review of P&P2 in today's NY Times by Christoper Lehmann-Haupt, a book reviewer. He compares P&P2 to the book and likes it very well indeed, better than any other Austen adaptation. Link is: http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/arts/tv-austen-review.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 9 of 12 [austenarchive]: Ramble Response 347 of 362: Ann (Ann) * Sat, Feb 8, 1997 (19:37) * 3 lines That is an increadible review!! (By the way, you probably have to register at the NYTimes site before you can view the stories there. I would heartily recommend that you do. The NYTimes site is one of the best newspapers on the web and includes most, if not all, of the printed paper (including the crossword puzzle!!)) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 177 of 179 [austen]: Ramble Response 3 of 3: Amy (Amy) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (23:12) * 276 lines Last few days, part 2 ____ Topic 9 of 12 [austenarchive]: Ramble Response 348 of 362: Ann (Ann) * Sat, Feb 8, 1997 (20:06) * 27 lines I have sent the NYTimes a E-letter in response to this article. I thought I would share it with all of you: Dear Sir or Madam, Your reporter, Christopher Lehmann-Haupt, is not the first to fall in love with the BBC/A&E production of Pride and Prejudice. This production in particular, and Jane Austen in general, has a large and loyal following on the internet. There are several sites which have been founded specifically for the purpose of discussing this production, and which have subsequently been broadened to include all of the works of Jane Austen. Other sites have been established solely to provide information and access to Au ten's works on the internet. Some of the URL's are as follows: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janeinfo.html http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/all/new (requires registration) http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wwwboard/ppbb.html It is suprising to me that she, of all authors, has such a strong following in cyberspace. I am continually amazed by the wide variety of Jane Austen information available on the internet, as well as the variety of people interested in her work. The virtual community which has been created around an interest in Jane Austen includes men and women, it includes people from the age of nine to well over sixty, and spans several continents and languages. It represents the best of what the internet can be by bringing together so many people in so many different walks of life, races, and cultures. We have come together and have indeed formed a community. We cry together when one of us suffers from a loss of a loved one, and we celebrate when one of us pa ses a milestone in life. We support eachother, even though few of us have ever met or even know what the others look like. We are grateful to Miss Austen for giving us the reason come together, and are grateful to the BBC/A&E production for introducing so many of us to her work. I am glad that your paper has recognised this wonderful production, which has brought so many people to enjoy Pride and Prejudice and Jane Austen, and which has brought so many of us together in cyberspace. Thank you, Ann Elizabeth Haker haker001@tc.umn.edu"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (08:24)", "body": "Ann, this is such a lovely letter. Hope NY Times prints it."}, {"response": 4, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (11:10)", "body": "Wonderful letter Ann and happy you get your car back!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:48)", "body": "Killer letter, Ann! Maybe Amy will have a film crew following her around next week!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "Moved from its own topic: __ Topic 180 of 181: Review of Emma in TV Guide Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (08:23) | Kim (kimmer) The following is a review by Susan Stewart: It pains me to say it, but the author of the line \"It was a delightful visit-perfect in being much too short\" has overstayed her welcome. The latest Austen adaptation translates delicate wit into sitcom-style banter, turns Emma's romantic machinations into silly daydreams and ends with a harvest festival straight out of Thomas hardy-oops, wrong classy British author. Enough! My score:3 out of 10. Also in the same issue in the program description it states: Though this 1996 BBC adaptation is visually arresting and faithfyl to the novel, it lacks the charm of last year's theatrical release starring Gwyneth Paltrow. In this version, Kate Beckinsale displays little of Emma's willful likability; she plays her as a sometimes mean-spirited matchmaker determined to raise a friend's social station by finding a husband. 6 new of 6 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 180 of 181 [austen]: Review of Emma in TV Guide Response 1 of 6: Linda In Ga. (Darcyfan) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (10:19) * 1 lines Oh No! I for one..will still watch it...Go Sue Bristwistle and Andrew Davies!...after all, they gave us the best production I have ever seen...I will watch in anticipation of another well done Austen adaptation....Next week, we can give our own opinions....Kim, we will then know how we feel about Susan Stewart as a critic...right? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 180 of 181 [austen]: Review of Emma in TV Guide Response 2 of 6: Carolyn Esau (Carolyn) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (11:10) * 1 lines People Magazine gave it a glowing review. Claimed it was better than the GP & JN version. Grade: A. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 180 of 181 [austen]: Review of Emma in TV Guide Response 3 of 6: Johanne (JohanneD) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (11:16) * 1 lines After Martha here's Susan, well...who's in line for stone throwing... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 180 of 181 [austen]: Review of Emma in TV Guide Response 4 of 6: Johanne (JohanneD) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (11:17) * 3 lines After Martha here's Susan, well...who's in line for stone throwing... Now nobody touches Patrick, Please ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 180 of 181 [austen]: Review of Emma in TV Guide Response 5 of 6: Dina (Dina) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (12:33) * 1 lines T.V. Guide gave it a 3 out of 10. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 180 of 181 [austen]: Review of Emma in TV Guide Response 6 of 6: Carl W. Goss (lasalle) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (12:49) * 9 lines 3rd Try! I'm now a little worried about this production of Emma. Jane Austen wrote fiction, but fiction that seems very real . Dream/fantasy sequences? Hope ITV/A&E arn't going Hollywood. Emma causes a lot of real pain and distress to those around her. She gets a very real dressing down by Mr knightly for her treatment of Miss Bates. No need for dream/fanstasy sequences. Bears close watching, seems to me. This Sunday at 9PM PST tells the tale."}, {"response": 7, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (15:09)", "body": "I was amused to find a picture from the upcoming A&E Emma in the PBS Austen videos section -- amused because that particular video is NOT one of the videos being sold!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (06:44)", "body": "People magazine review of EMMA by Tom Gliatto Had enough of Jane Austen? Ready to mo on to Jacqueline Susann? Not so fast. This adatpation is terrific and far superior to the the recent Gwynth Paltrow film. The key is Kate Beckinsdale. She's just about perfect as Austen's \"handsome, clever and rich\" young heroine, who insists on playin matchmaker to the citizens of Higubury, only to find repeatedly that she understands nothing of the longings of the human heart. Paltro played the part with a swanlike haoughtiness. Beckinsdale is bibrantly girli h and romantic. And she looks smashing in Empire-waist dresses. Emma, as adapted by Andrew Davies, captures no just Austen's ligth charm but the pinpricks of her social criticism. Samantha Morton, as the illegitimate Harriet Smith, and Olivia Williams, as Jane Fairfax--who faces a dreary future as a governess--are affectingly vunerable. While Emma, secure in her wealth, prattles on about romance, these penniless women know that the town's eligilble bachelors will judge them accortding to the size of their purse. And likely reject them. Grade:A"}, {"response": 9, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (11:54)", "body": "Please keep in mind that PEOPLE panned P&P2. They didn't like Jennifer Ehle. So don't trust too much in their reviews!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "Could it be that different people did the reviews,Amy? What didn't this person like about Jennifer Ehle?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (17:53)", "body": "Whew! At least he didn't complement this version's Mr. Knightly! I can take it if this is a better adaptation, but never let it be said that anyone but Jeremy Northam could be the definitive Mr. Knightly!! (I think I need to head to the drool conference) :)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (03:28)", "body": "On the other hand, Susan Stewart of TV Guide (who loved P&P) says: It pains me to say it but the author of the line \"It was a delightful visit - perfect in being much too short\" has overstayed her welcome. The latest Austen adaptation translates delicate wit into sitcom-style banter, turns Emma's romantic machinations into silly daydreams and ends with a harvest festival straight out of Thomas Hardy - oops, wrong classy British author. Enough! My score: 3"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (04:10)", "body": "No kidding, Kaff. I will survive the whole of this version muttering to myself: \"Who is this impostor?! What have they done with my Mr. Knightley?!!!\""}, {"response": 14, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (15:49)", "body": "And another Review from \"The Best Video Guide\" A&E EMMA. I would say that this man has a deeper understanding of \"Jane Austen\". http://www.tbvg.com/movies/emmaja.htm If this doesn't work try http://www.tbvg.com/ scroll to Upcoming Videos, click on JA Emma A&E"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (15:55)", "body": "Why? Because this man sits and moralizes for the interviewers, while Jeremy merely laughs? Actually, I have heard what Mr. Northam has said about his character and the novel itself, and I am not unimpressed!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (01:21)", "body": "Minor note: Anyone get the J. Peterman catalogue? The latest advertises an empire waist dress under the title \"Jane Austen Is Always in Style.\" Would not Jane be surprised (and perhaps a tad dismayed) to get a nod from such a pretentious fop! I had to chuckle when I read that."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (01:24)", "body": "Speaking of catalogs, I miss Levinsons for Serious Readers. They lost me when I moved. Anybody else find every single thing in there something you want?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (12:41)", "body": "]Speaking of catalogs, I miss Levinsons for Serious Readers. They lost me when I moved. Anybody else find every single thing in there something you want? Always. But I'm not sure it was your move, Amy. I stopped getting it, too and I've been here since '84."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (12:48)", "body": "I sometimes get it with my Sunday New York Times, but it has been a little while now since it came."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (17:30)", "body": "I hope Levensons is not out of business. What a comment on society."}, {"response": 21, "author": "winter", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (01:46)", "body": "sorry to go completely off topic, but thought you might want to ee a picture of Jennifer Ehle in the homepage (unofficial) of the royal shakespeare co.. her hair is its natural color, and she looks a bit meryl streepish here by the eay: http://www.hiway.co.uk/~ei/cast.html#newfaces"}, {"response": 22, "author": "winter", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (01:47)", "body": "my goodness! i'm really sorry for the typos-- it's the darn carpal tunnel acting up again. i don't type as accurately as i used to."}, {"response": 23, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (08:26)", "body": "RE a picture of Jennifer Ehle in the homepage (unofficial) of the royal shakespeare co It's interesting in the notes to this that it says \"recenlty on TV in The Camomile Lawn\" (which was before P&P2) and no mention of P&P2. Maybe she's trying to escape..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (08:44)", "body": "I don't think the RSC has updated its homepage in almost two years."}, {"response": 25, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (03:18)", "body": "Right - the RSC has updated its \"schedule\" pages, but not it's \"info\" pages such as profiles of the actors and highlights of \"recent\" productions. That picture of JE is the one that all the casting people have - it also appears in \"The Making Of\" book on page 16."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (14:45)", "body": "In one of the January issues Time Mag. gave P&P2 one of the best of the best reviews."}, {"response": 27, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (22:08)", "body": "Letter to the Editor in the March 8-14 TV Guide: Stewart misses with Austen Slight \"In answer to Susan Stewart's remarks about Jane Austen overstaying her welcome [Hits & Misses, Feb. 15], I, for one, continue to love all of Austen's stories. They remain a blessed relief from graphic sex, violence and crude language. From the mid-19th century to the present, Jan Austen's books have remained in print. How long will Susan Stewart's reviews remain in print?\" - Doris Cauda Toms River, NJ Good job, Doris! BTW -- why haven't we seen you here!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (18:41)", "body": "\"I hope Levensons is not out of business. What a comment on society.\" Weirdness. A few days ago, I got a catologue \"for serious readers.\" I think it is Levensons, but I never heard of it before reading your comments here. I want to buy everything in the book!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (21:05)", "body": "Yes, that is it. Good."}, {"response": 30, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (17:47)", "body": "In catching up on my reading, I was reading the London Spectator, 14/21 Dec 1996 issue. There is a review there of a book called Jane Austen and the English Landscape. It sounds very nice, and gives insight into things like the scene in P&P when Lizzy comes upon Louisa, Caroline and Darcy in the shrubbery and refuses to join them. And also to the improvements Rushworth wants to make to his estate. To a New Englander with little background in Landscaping or English history, it sounds like it would be a great addition to my ever-growing library. And the fact that I am crazy about anything JA right now doesn't help."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "That sounds interesting to me, too, Lynn. Rushworth and his improvements. Snort."}, {"response": 32, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (11:49)", "body": "A coworker kindly alerted me to yet another Firth interview: http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/97/03/25/timfeafea03001.html?1055815"}, {"response": 33, "author": "rosie", "date": "Sat, Mar 29, 1997 (22:05)", "body": "Jane, thank you for the alert about the Firth interview in the Times! It's a very stimulating/provocative picture and article. I wish I had seen it sooner. Hope I can find a copy locally. Really, sincerest thanks!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar 30, 1997 (01:28)", "body": "Is it possibly on the online version of the Times? Most of the newspapers have online counterparts these days. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 157, "subject": "Understanding Regency society", "response_count": 29, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (09:32)", "body": "Topic 145 of 180: Lady Cathrine& Rosings Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (22:36) | ayelet dahan (ayelet) I wondered about that one day, and asked my mother if she knew the answer, since she (and all my family, I asked them all) didn't. I decided that you may have an answer, so here it is: Fact one: Mrs. Bennet isn't going to get Longbourn after Mr. Bennet will die, we know that for sure. Fact two: LC GOT Rosings when HER husbund died. Now my question is: HOW SO??? 6 new of 6 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 145 of 180 [austen]: Lady Cathrine& Rosings Response 1 of 6: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (23:54) * 3 lines Ayelet dear, Mr. Bennet's estate is entailed, meaning by law it will go to the nearest male heir, this is how Mr. Bennet recieved Longbourn. We do not know from whom, it is presumed his father, but it could very well be a distant relation. Mr. Collins is Mr. Bennet's nearest male relation and so will inherit Longbourn upon Mr. Bennet's death. Rosings is not entailed...meaning it will pass on to whomever the owner stipulates in a will, in this case, Lady Catherine was willed it from her husband and she will will it to her daughter, Anne. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 145 of 180 [austen]: Lady Cathrine& Rosings Response 2 of 6: ayelet dahan (ayelet) * Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (22:11) * 1 lines But what makes that diffrence? I mean, why would one estate be entitled to males, and one won't? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 145 of 180 [austen]: Lady Cathrine& Rosings Response 3 of 6: Anna (Anna) * Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (22:32) * 13 lines ] why would one estate be entitled to males, and one won't? Ayelet, an entail would have arisen when a recent male ancestor made his will; Property became entailed when a man created an entail in his will; that is he left it to his heir on certain conditions, those conditions mainly being that the heir could not sell any part of the property, and that it would be inherited by his closest male-line kin on his death. The property wasn't entailed forever; an entail expired after two (I think, maybe 3) generations, and if two generations (the heir and his heir) agree they can get together and remove the entail. Besides keeping the property in the male line (something that wouldn't concern me but was important to many of the gentry in regency England), the entail kept the property intact; the owner had the use of it, but couldn't sell it nor leave smaller estates to several people; although rough on the daughters and younger sons, this kept the power arising from a larger estate intact. Often when an entail ran-out the current holder would re-entail it, but this was at his discretion. There was no legal obligation on any one to form an entail. So; Mr Bennet's property was entailed bevause one of his ancestors thought it would be a good idea, Lady Catherine's wasn't because neither he nor any of his recent ancestors thought it necessary. I think HC has some info on entails on his web page, I read it a while ago however, so I don't know the address off hand, but the main page is in the links here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 145 of 180 [austen]: Lady Cathrine& Rosings Response 4 of 6: Henry (churchh) * Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (08:22) * 2 lines http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/pptopic2.html#entail Chapter 29, Lady Catherine: ``Your father's estate is entailed on Mr. Collins, I think. For your sake,'' turning to Charlotte, ``I am glad of it; but otherwise I see no occasion for entailing estates from the female line. -- It was not thought necessary in Sir Lewis de Bourgh's family.'' ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 145 of 180 [austen]: Lady Cathrine& Rosings Response 5 of 6: ayelet dahan (ayelet) * Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (22:07) * 1 lines Oh, thank you, sorry for creating a topic about it, amy, you're doing a spring cleaning, don't you? will you be so kind as to earse this topic? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 145 of 180 [austen]: Lady Cathrine& Rosings Response 6 of 6: Amy (Amy) * Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (23:57) * 1 lines Don't worry about it, Ayelet. We may want a topic on entailment, or may just move this to that other topic about Regency society. Don't ever anybody feel as if they cannot create a topic just because we are trying to pare down on them."}, {"response": 2, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:57)", "body": "I know we've touched on this before, but now that we have an official topic: Can someone here post the Rules of Propriety in terms of the dealings between the sexes during the Regency? Covering acceptable touching, letter-writing, _social_ intercourse, etc. Thanks!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:16)", "body": "Last several messages posted to \"Rules of Propriety\" topic. Messages posted before Christmas (including a lot of good introductory info and links, Amy2) are now filed in the AustenArchive conference. Now stop me before I clean some more. ____ Topic 44 of 181 [austen]: Rules of propriety: Regency vs Victorian Response 49 of 80: The Mysterious H.C. (churchh) * Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (06:12) * 2 lines My, we've certainly gotten away from the notion of propriety, haven't we How about \"Fitzie\"? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 44 of 181 [austen]: Rules of propriety: Regency vs Victorian Response 50 of 80: Mari Topitzes (Mari) * Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (12:42) * 13 lines ''What did Elizabeth call Darcy after their marriage?'' - Meggin My own personal fantasy has the scene thus..... (Takes place during the conversation the day after they become engaged, on their long ramble). ''My dearest, lovliest Elizabeth.'' he declared softly, looking all the while closely at her, the better to enjoy the flush that always came to her cheeks when he named her thus. She cast her eyes down, and began to speak, but stopped suddenly. He continued to look at her as she hesitated. Finally, she spoke. ''I find that I was about to address as Mr. Darcy, but perhaps you would prefer another form of address...?'' ''Most call me Darcy, of course, and some, friends from school, still call me Fitz, as did my father.'' Here he paused, and then began again, in a tone yet more quiet than even before, ''My mother and sister alone, of all those who know me, have called me William.'' He glanced away, as if the strength of the feelings revealed in his gaze would prompt her to an answer that she might not be prepared to give. She understood the unspoken question, and answered it with a tenderness of heart equal to that which prompted the request. She spoke only the name; '' William'', and smiled as his eyes rose to hers. An answering smile, full of love and tenderness, came to his countenance, and they stood thus bemused for a full minute, before they continued their walk. ....I must leave you now, as I take pleasure in a great many things, and our pizza has arrived. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 44 of 181 [austen]: Rules of propriety: Regency vs Victorian Response 51 of 80: Mary C. Fox (MaryC) * Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (17:04) * 1 lines I wish I had your gift for creative writing, Mari. It was one of the most difficult of the journalism and literary courses I had to complete in college. Well, done. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 44 of 181 [austen]: Rules of propriety: Regency vs Victorian Response 52 of 80: Saman Moeed (Saman) * Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (17:13) * 7 lines Re: response 49 - Henry, no Fitzie, I beg of you!! Fitzie is the nickname of the All Black captain (I'd better explain that, hadn't I?) The All Blacks are New Zealand's rugby team and their captain at the moment is Sean Fitzpatrick. I have no doubts as to his ability as a forward (read big bloke) in the game of rugby, but to be confronted with the image of him when thinking of Darcy is, well, insupportable. I'll forgive you Henry - but only because I didn't wish you a happy birthday ;) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 44 of 181 [austen]: Rules of propriety: Regency vs Victorian Response 53 of 80: Linda (Linda409) * Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (11:19) * 4 lines Re: Response 50 Oooooo, Mari!! That is excessively romantic!!!! Capital! Capital! It must have happened exactly that way. Linda ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 44 of 181 [austen]: Rules of propriety: Regency vs Victorian Response 54 of 80: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (20:12) * 1 lines How about a simple but elegant \"Mister\"? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 44 of 181 [austen]: Rules of propriety: Regency vs Victorian Response 55 of 80: France (alfresco) * Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:32) * 1 lines Given marrieds' predilection for calling each other Mr Bennet and Mrs Bennet, etc., one supposes it may have ended up Mr. Darcy and Mrs Darcy after all (until more private moments where he may have addressed her as \"my little Boobytrap and she may have replied \"my darling Daggykins\") ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 44 of 181 [austen]: Rules of propriety: Regency vs Victorian Response 56 of 80: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (00:59) * 1 lines France, you are sooooo bad! ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 44 of 181 [austen]: Rules of propriety: Regency vs Victorian Response 57 of 80: Leslie (Leslie) * Wed, Feb 5, 1997 (09:21) * 3 lines HC... I rather like Fitzie. I think it is very endearing. Prey tell...\"daggykins\"!! By the way, is anyone going to the JASNA tour of England in June??? -"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:22)", "body": "Moved from old topic, \"Pin money & special license\" Topic 56 of 181: pin-money & special license Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (20:19) | Zimei Sun (Zimei) When Mrs. Bennet is told about Lizzy's engagement to Darcy, she exclaims \"... Oy! my sweetest Lizzy! how rich and how great you will be! What pin-money, what jewels and what carriages you will have! ...And a special license. You must and shall be married by a special license. ...\" I didn't understand what pin-money and special licens were until I read What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew by Daniel Pool. In case someone else has been wondering them, here is what they are: pin-money is \"an allowance given to a woman upon her marriage - frequently bargained for explicitly as part of the marriage settlement between the families of a prospective husband and wife - to be spent on small household items or for personal adornment.\" As a matter of fact, in JA time before a marriges took place, lawyers of two families would get togather to negotiate a \"marriage agreement\" that covered a whole range of financial issues/arrangements including pin-money. Prenups are definitely not the invention of modern time:) Mr. Bennet: \"Very well Mr. Darcy, I'll have my lawyer call your lawyer tomorrow ...\" ... ... - this is one \"missing scene\" that I'm happy to be spared of though. About special license - there were 3 ways (4 after 1836) to get your marriage formalized - Banns which were usually confined to the poorest classes, licenses, and special licenses. A Special license was the most expensive procedure and enabled you to get married any place at any time. To get a special license you not only had to be which but also well-connectd, since it was grantd by archbishop of Cantebury. Zimei 10 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 56 of 181 [austen]: pin-money & special license Response 1 of 10: The Mysterious H.C. (churchh) * Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (20:55) * 2 lines I have explanations for these words near the bottom of the file http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/thresist.html By the way, the Pool book is apparently not the most accurate and definitve source... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 56 of 181 [austen]: pin-money & special license Response 2 of 10: Cecily (panache) * Sun, Dec 1, 1996 (09:19) * 2 lines Thank you, Zimei. But do tell also what Jane Austen ate, etc., so we all know what to do in that area (and any other JA tidbits from Pool's book) along with wearing our new hairdos, muslin gowns, handwriting retraining, accent, daily walks to town or gentlemen with letters under trees, etc. Pretty please? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 56 of 181 [austen]: pin-money & special license Response 3 of 10: Leslie (Leslie) * Sun, Dec 1, 1996 (14:47) * 1 lines Thank you Zimei. But I must agree with Cecily. Please tell all... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 56 of 181 [austen]: pin-money & special license Response 4 of 10: Anna (Anna) * Mon, Dec 2, 1996 (02:30) * 1 lines At the risk of seeming negative, \"What Jane Austen Ate ...\" contains some innacuracies and doesn't seperate JA's time (regency) from Dickens (Victorian), the later had much stricter rules of propriety, in the upper classes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 56 of 181 [austen]: pin-money & special license Response 5 of 10: Zimei Sun (Zimei) * Mon, Dec 2, 1996 (09:12) * 6 lines :But do tell also what Jane Austen ate, et Cecily and Leslie, I'm happy to oblige. I will post something from the Pool book tonight and will try my best to include only the regency food. Zimei ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 56 of 181 [austen]: pin-money & special license Response 6 of 10: Zimei Sun (Zimei) * Wed, Dec 4, 1996 (22:46) * 6 lines I'm afraid I have to put off reporting what's on Jane Austen's dinner table a little longer. The other day I went to get the Pool book renewed only to find out someone put a hold on it. I sould get it back when the next copy comes in a few days. I'm also going to the main library this weekend to get more background books (thanks HC for reminding me not to trust the Pool book blindly). Hmmm, should have minored 19-century English literary history in college :) Again, I apologize for not keeping my word, I hope it will not become a great scandal! Zimei ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 56 of 181 [austen]: pin-money & special license Response 7 of 10: Anna (Anna) * Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (22:01) * 5 lines In the interest of avoiding unnecessary topic proliferation I'm going to post some general stuff on Regency financial stuff here; it seems to fit with the background information trend; as it will not poat as one large message I'm going to try it as a few smaller ones. A discussion I had yes"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:26)", "body": "Moved from old topic, Mozart wigs ____ Topic 57 of 181: 'Mozart wigs' Sun, Dec 1, 1996 (21:25) | Rachel Youdelman (baka) Help! my kids are infected with my addiction to P&P2! My son says the servants are wearing 'Mozart wigs'!! from Rachel 11 new of 11 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 1 of 11: Amy Bellinger (Amy) * Mon, Dec 2, 1996 (04:02) * 13 lines Well, that [wigs] is one point on which I think What Jane Austen Ate... is accurate. I don't own the book, but if I remember Pool(e?) was sort of incredulous in his style of explaining the costuming of servants of the rich. He said something like, \"For some reason, the wealthy had their servants dress as they themselves might have some 40 years before.\" In the neighborhood of Meryton, Nethfield and Longbourn, the Bingely household is the only one where we see servants so dressed. And that brings up something I have wondered about. How far away would some other great estates be from Longbourn and would the Bennets have been acquainted with those families. And. If Longbourn had a church, would not Netherfield be a parish too, or would it have been too close? Was the house at Netherfield an old estate or built by an upstart like Bingley himself? I don't think any of these questions are answered in the book, but wondered if there are any hints in the book, or if anyone who knows the period cares to speculate. Oh, sorry. I am on a ramble. Fun to think about the fact that Mozart was nearly comtemporary. I imagine his music was to our Regency friends as Gershwin is to us. Amy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 2 of 11: Anna (Anna) * Mon, Dec 2, 1996 (04:27) * 22 lines \"For some reason, the wealthy had their servants dress as they themselves might have some 40 years before.\" it's still done in some circles - Euro/Brit upper classes on formal occasions mainly How far away would some other great estates be from Longbourn other than Netherfield? Pemberly was 10 mile in diameter, thus ~ 3 miles across (mind you I'm not sure if 'estate' in this context ment all the property or just the pleasure grounds, but I suspect the latter). Most of the land had been enclosed by then so allowing for some waste grounds there should be reasonable sized estates every 10 miles or so. Some at least of the owners would have been on visiting terms with the Bennets. If Longbourn had a church, would not Netherfield be a parish too, or would it have been too close? Was the house at Netherfield an old estate or built by an upstart like Bingley himself? I think if Netherfield was an established 'great house' with an associated village it would have had a church and parish, but not if it was a recent addition to the scene. I don't think we can tell which from the text. Oh, sorry. I am on a ramble. likewise - I was going to finish my tax return tonight. Fun to think about the fact that Mozart was nearly comtemporary. I imagine his music was to our Regency friends as Gershwin is to us. did you see the recent comment (here or on AustenL) that Mozart's music is technically much easier to play on a fortepiano than on a pianoforte? All that amateur playing mightn't have been as bad as I had thought. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 3 of 11: Donna (Donna) * Tue, Dec 3, 1996 (11:17) * 1 lines I thought \"fortepiano\" and \"pianoforte\" are the same thing. Did I miss something. Or is one larger then the other.Either one is upright or grand style. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 4 of 11: Anna (Anna) * Tue, Dec 3, 1996 (13:29) * 1 lines the pianoforte in 1812 was differently constructed to the pianoforte we use now (I don't know in what way - I've picked this much up from background reading but I'm no musician), and the earlier version is referred to nowadays as a fortepiano to distinguish it from the modern instrument. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 57 of 181 [austen]: 'Mozart wigs' Response 5 of 11: Ann Rydberg (Ann2) * Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (09:01) * 6 lines I found out that the French composer Couperin wanted something more varied than the cembalo. And one Bartolomeo Cristofori as an answer to this request constructed the pianoforte in 1709. The main difference from what I gather is that tiny hammers strike the strings and this can be done softly/piano or with force/forte (like Mrs Hurst on Netherfield Ball?).It seems they could be in rectangular form sometimes.The other special form comes from the soprano(?) strings being much shorter and thus needing less pace than the base strings. I have only guessed the words for those strings. Hope I make myself clear?! Thanks for explanation on fortepiano and p"}, {"response": 6, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:33)", "body": "] Topic 181 of 181 [austen]: Understanding Regency society ] Response 2 of 4: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (13:57) * 1 lines ] I know we've touched on this before, but now that we have an official topic: Can someone here post the Rules of Propriety in terms of the dealings between the sexes during the Regency? ] Covering acceptable touching, letter-writing, _social_ intercourse, etc. Thanks! Amy2 -- here's what I have in the AUSTEN-L \"Pre-FAQ\" at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/pre-faq.txt -- Q: What were some of the proprieties governing young women, and relations between the sexes, in Jane Austen's day. A1: There were several. One basic principle is that a youngish genteel never-married female cannot set up a household of her own, but must always be staying with a member of her family, or with a older or married person approved of by her family, or at a family-approved school, or (if very poor), with a family-approved employer. (Only if her father and mother have both died, and she has \"come of age\" and inherited a substantial amount, can young never-married female set herself up as the head of a household -- and even here she must hire a respectable older lady to be a \"companion\".) If a young woman leaves without her family's approval, this is always very serious (a symptom of a radical break, such as running away to marry a disapproved husband). A2: Similarly, it was not considered quite proper for never-married \"genteel\" young women to travel on public coaches unescorted. This is one reason why General Tilney \"acted neither honourably nor feelingly -- neither as a gentleman nor as a parent\" in dismissing Catherine Morland near the end of _Northanger Abbey_, and why Fanny Price's stay in Portsmouth is prolonged in _Mansfield Park_. A3: Young unrelated unmarried members of the opposite sex cannot give personal gifts to each other (though gifts to an entire family are allowed), especially not objects of taste and feeling (as opposed to items of more humble domestic utility). This is why Henry Crawford is not entitled to give a necklace to Fanny Price, and why when Mary Crawford allows herself to be used as the conduit through which the necklace is given, she is committing a violation of etiquette or protocol (and in doing this without Fanny Price's knowledge or consent, she is not acting with much discretion or kindness toward Fanny). On the other hand, something such as giving a gift of game (venison etc.) to your beloved's family is always safe. A4: Similarly, a correspondence between two unmarried and marriageable young people of the opposite sex is a sign that the two are engaged. So Elinor Dashwood in Jane Austen's novel _Sense and Sensibility_, when she sees a letter from Edward Ferrars to Lucy Steele, thinks \"a correspondence between them by letter could subsist only under a positive engagement, could be authorised by nothing else\", and, when she is unsure whether or not Willoughby and Marianne are engaged, says \"If we find they correspond, every fear of mine will be removed\". Similarly, Captain Wentworth says to Anne Elliot in _Persuasion_: \"...if I had then written to you, would you have answered my letter? would you, in short, have renewed the engagement then?\" (i.e., she only would have answered the letter if she had also decided to renew the engagement). And since Mary Crawford and Edmund Bertram in _Mansfield Park_ could not legitimately correspond, the correspondence between Fanny Price and Mary Crawford is used as a conduit between them. This rule isn't so rigid as to prevent Elinor Dashwood in _Sense and Sensibility_ from starting to write a one-off letter to Edward Ferrars (which was to be more a business than a social letter); however, for a continuing correspondence to be carried on in the absence of an engagement is a breach of propriety (a significant point in Marianne's conduct in _Sense and Sensibility_ -- though Jane Austen dismisses the topic more lightly at the end of _Northanger Abbey_). This is why Darcy thinks it advisable to hand-deliver his famous letter to Elizabeth (it would be awkward if anyone at Rosings or Hunsford Parsonage were to see a letter addressed from him to Elizabeth), and an important reason why Elizabeth doesn't answer the letter. A5: It is _NOT_ a rule of propriety in the society of Jane Austen's day that an unmarried unrelated young man and young woman must never be together by themselves. The rules of propriety were actually somewhat more subtle and flexible than this, and even a perfunctory reading of Jane Austen's novels will turn up plenty of counter-examples -- think of Charles Musgrove handing Anne Elliot over to Capt. Wentworth for a walk uptown near the end of _Persuasion_, or Bingley arranging with Mrs. Bennet for Darcy and Elizabeth to take \"a nice long walk\" alone to Oakham Mount, etc., etc. (strict rules of chaperonage belong more to the Victorian era than to Jane Austen's day). The main thing to be avoided was too long or too frequent"}, {"response": 7, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:42)", "body": "Here are the links in Topic 44, Message 70 that are omitted from the reposting above: Web-page with illustrations and further links on Regency fashions: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/ppbrokil.html Jane Austen letter with reference to \"nakedly dressed\": http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/brablet4.html#letter26 Drawing which makes fun of the Classically-inspired styles when they were just coming into fashion (1797): http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/1797fash.gif"}, {"response": 8, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:52)", "body": ""}, {"response": 9, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (17:15)", "body": "Is anybody interested in Regency Dancing? My sci-fi interested son gave me info. on \"Costume Con Fifteen\" (a convention) to be held in Baltimore May 23-26, 1997 at Lord Baltimore Hotel. The flyer says \"Costume Lovers Rejoice! Four Days Devoted to the Art of Costume\" There is to be a Regency Dance on the Monday (Memorial Day) from approx. noon to 3 p.m. There is an attendance fee, don't know how much for just part of one day. For more information contact: CCXV c/o Marks 7806 Hanover Pkwy., Unit T-2 Greenbelt, MD 20770-2617 (301) 474-8616 betsy@access.digex.net Also on the flyer, descriptions of Friday and Saturday socials: \"Calahan's Cross-Stitch Saloon and Murder on the Ornament Express\""}, {"response": 10, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (01:15)", "body": "From P&P and S&S, I understand that eloping was quite scandalous. Can anyone explain why it is so bad? (Aside from going against your family's wishes.)"}, {"response": 11, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (11:59)", "body": "Inko, if you go to an sf convention, you may get more than you bargain for! You will not only find Regency dancers, but people dressed like Wookies, Mr. Spock, the X-Files, etc. Plus the liberal dose of chicks in chainmail & fur bikinis. Be forewarned! Henry -- thanks for posting that info! In your opinion, which Austen adaptation most closely adheres to the strictures of the Regency?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (12:15)", "body": "I wonder if Mr Spock can dance?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Saman", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (13:57)", "body": ""}, {"response": 14, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "Anne: I wonder if Mr. Spock can dance? No, but I hear that wookies sure can cut a rug! :)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Saman", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (16:58)", "body": "Oops sorry about that - hit the wrong button :("}, {"response": 16, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (17:23)", "body": "Amy2, Since Baltimore is just 45 minutes up the pike (50 miles of good road) it's possible for me to just drop in on the dance; I don't have to hang around for the rest of it. However, I'd rather like to see the Wookie doing Mr. Beveridge's maggot!!;-)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (17:52)", "body": "'Other way, Mr. Chewbacca...'"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (20:53)", "body": "re: 10 Karen, besides going against your family's wishes, an elopement would not have had any pre-marriage settlements drawn up. Without these a wife had very little control over any belongings she brought into the match, it all became the husband's to do with as he wished. Hence the popularity of elopement with fortune hunters."}, {"response": 19, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (23:30)", "body": "Ha! I have to confess I'm an sf writer, so I have been to more than my share of these things. And boy, are they weird! The woman wearing the pig nose and the tutu definitely got MY attention!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (08:43)", "body": "oh Amy, I love sf - how great for you!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (14:17)", "body": "Question: At the end of the novel, Lydia writes a note of congratulation to Lizzy. In this letter Lydia expresses the hope that Lizzy & Darcy will think of the Wickhams, and that she's sure that \"Wickham would like a place at court very much.\" What is a place at court?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (17:45)", "body": "I've always taken that sentence \"Wickham would like a place at court very much\", to mean he'd like to be an equerry or aide to the King or Regent. Court refers to the present ruler and, if we're talking 1812, I guess it would mean the Prince Regent, later George IV. I don't know how Darcy could have managed that; maybe they bought these positions or else Darcy would know people who could put in a good word for Wickham. I also think it shows how far from reality Lydia's and Wickham's ideas were!!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "I also thought it was written to show how ungrateful they are. or how determined Wicked Wickham is to bedevil Darcy. (He probably thinks Elizabeth loved him first.)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (23:59)", "body": "Anne, thanks for the sf kudos. I'm actually more of a fantasy writer. I guess you could say that P&P is a sort of fantasy. . .of a romantic kind."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (00:08)", "body": "Amy2...what are you doing girl? This isn't your usual posting time! ;-)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (01:03)", "body": "Re: 18 Thanks for your information, Anna."}, {"response": 27, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "Found this graphic, thought people might like it... (The picture doesn't actually date from the Regency itself -- probably actually the 1940's)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (10:27)", "body": "thought people might like it... Can\ufffdt understand who that might imply! Do we care for such tall, proud one's...? Whatever gave you that impression, Henry ? Are you by any chance prejudiced?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "The illustration does nothing for me, actually, Henry. It seems a little swishy. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 158, "subject": "Conference business", "response_count": 46, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (22:33)", "body": "Last few messages: __ Topic 1 of 183 [austen]: conference business Response 118 of 124: Amy (Amy) * Thu, Feb 6, 1997 (16:53) * 2 lines It's the commentary -- especially the praise, since every writer needs that! -- which I don't want to lose entirely. Any ideas on that, anybody? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 1 of 183 [austen]: conference business Response 119 of 124: Cecily (panache) * Thu, Feb 6, 1997 (19:24) * 8 lines Amy and Myretta- I like this idea. You could put the Writers' Guild in your header links. And we could start a fresh \"Scenes\" topic for posting of further stories and commentary. Option 1: Scenes without commentary reviews put into Ann's page; original topic thread (scenes with commentary/reviewa) in AustenArchives; new additipons to topic #43 only if PG13; other New Scenes conference outside for slightly \"hotter\" scenes (tasteful R?). Option 2: Same as above, except all new scenes out in another New Scenes conference outside P&P2 (with a copyright and request for PG13-tasteful R content). Actually, I hate to use R as a term at all, in that it allows any writers who post to include scenes of violence, etc., if they be nonAustenites in content and style... Option 3: Tell writers to direct us to their own webpages of scenes! Option 4: Go watch P&P2 again and forget this prequel/sequel jazz. (I feel like a mother turtle who laid a million eggs in the sand of #43 and now they're all starting to hatch...) ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 1 of 183 [austen]: conference business Response 120 of 124: Ann (Ann) * Thu, Feb 6, 1997 (21:59) * 1 lines I just want to add, that if something gets racier than my arbitrary taste would feel comfortable with, I will not post it to the guild. So far, nothing has crossed that line, so I can not say where that line is. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 1 of 183 [austen]: conference business Response 121 of 124: Myretta (mrobens) * Fri, Feb 7, 1997 (10:17) * 3 lines Cecily, You have, indeed,hatched quite a few eggs here. I'm inclined to think that starting a separate conference for \"hotter\" scenes might encourage \"hotter\" scenes. I think we do quite well, here, keeping things acceptable to the General Public. Your happy band of authors seems to have reached an agreeable temperature and is keeping it regulated. If the need arises, we could always direct the writers to drool and start a topic there. I also think that Amy has enough conferences on her h nds at the moment. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 1 of 183 [austen]: conference business Response 122 of 124: Cecily (panache) * Fri, Feb 7, 1997 (18:37) * 1 lines As Darcy would say, You are perfectly right. It is entirely up to Amy, this being Amyland. Whatever she decides is law to me. I was merely and halfjestingly responding to her query above for others' input. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 1 of 183 [austen]: conference business Response 123 of 124: Amy (Amy) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (14:23) * 1 lines Oh oh."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (01:00)", "body": "Henry's made a great interface for the old P&P2BB archives at: http://access.spring.com/~amy/ It is so much fun to page through, and he's written indexes by subject and date, so it is really easy to use. Such a nice thing you have given us, Henry. Thank you so much."}, {"response": 3, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (07:54)", "body": "Very nice, Henry."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (13:52)", "body": "I'm all amazement! Those Archives with indexes and so many different entries... Not that I did not consider it to be in your power Henry, but the amount of kind work put in...It looks so elegant ! Somewhat in style with your Austen site. Thank you. Hours of remembrance ahead."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (21:31)", "body": "They look great, Henry. Thank you. Was I the only one to check out the 'D's first?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (22:32)", "body": "] Was I the only one to check out the 'D's first? it might be quicker to ask who didn't check out the D's first ;-)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (01:40)", "body": "First place I went Hil! :-)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (06:47)", "body": "]First place I went Hil! :-) Me, too!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (12:34)", "body": "Me three!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (12:41)", "body": "The D section is getting worn spots in it already."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (15:39)", "body": "First and only place I've been so far!!;-)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (16:24)", "body": "and it is great fun; thanks HC!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (05:25)", "body": "But there is something missing in the daggy thread...there is not the additional discussion about the left and the right...I can only presume that the subject line got changed and so it's somewhere else? If someone finds it, give a hollar! ;-)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "HC, thanks heaps! It takes me back to my youger days, when I was a mere lurker...ah, the memories."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (13:58)", "body": "Cheryl, I couldn't find that either, in the time I had, but I guess its there!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (01:32)", "body": "\"but I guess its there!' I think not - I think that was one of the things that got lost in the first crash at Bluemarble. There was some attempt to reconstruct, but it's never the same in paraphrase..."}, {"response": 17, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (07:08)", "body": "Joan, too -- that sounds correct. There are references to the \"left and right\" discussion (Christmas gifts ?) but I suspect that all the original material is gone to ether heaven. ; )"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (17:13)", "body": "Kathleen: but I suspect that all the original material is gone to ether heaven. ; ) *pout* :-("}, {"response": 19, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (17:26)", "body": "all the original material is gone to ether heaven. AND"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (17:28)", "body": "AND"}, {"response": 21, "author": "candace", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "Cheryl -- please do not despair, it was all such a very magic moment in time...a time that I will never forget. My first ROTFLOL experience on the internet. You started it for me then, and I must say have carried it forward ever since. The conversation between us all regarding this, I carry as a verbal bouquet kept safely in my mind which I can pull out and look at with my memories. Of course, when I am feeling very analytical the memory is on the right side of my brain and when I am feeling very crea ive, the memory is on the left. ;-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (09:50)", "body": "Amy....yesterday you came into the Pemberley in much frustration....you left before you could read the messages that were posted after we realized the leverl of your stress.....I wanted you to know (and I know many will agree) that even though things aren't working perfectly....I for one want to say thank you for what you have accomplished here in the Spring. I cannot tell you the many hours of enjoyment I have had when finding refuge here from whatever the day may bring. To have found friends here who eel as I do about the very special world of P&P and other such places has been a treasure.....whenever you get down about what hasn't happened...please remember what has....and it has been MUCH! I for one am grateful!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (11:39)", "body": "Thanks, Linda. I do feel so much better now that Myretta and Henry and all the others who help out have come to my rescue. Back in the old Board days, I'd have just gone to bed for a week."}, {"response": 24, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (11:46)", "body": "I 2nd eveything Linda said, Amy. We really appreciate everything you've been doing. God's truth, we do."}, {"response": 25, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (11:48)", "body": "].I for one want to say thank you for what you have accomplished here in the Spring. Make that two of us. I echo everything Linda says."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (12:50)", "body": "Thank you doesn't even say enough, but those are all the words we have...."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (13:03)", "body": "Amy, it's easy to take all of this for granted, but we realize how much of it is due to you and we appreciate it greatly. You must feel like this sometimes:"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (13:05)", "body": "I love that, Susan."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (13:06)", "body": "I love all you guys."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (16:11)", "body": "Amy, I second, third, etc. all of the above. I am eternally grateful for this site and all you, with Myretta's and HC's help, are doing for us. Wish I were more computer savvy that I might help too, but I'm still very much a novice! BTW-when I posted yesterday that it was slow it was not a complaint - meant it for information purposes because I didn't realize it was a problem for everyone."}, {"response": 31, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:13)", "body": "I have no idea how much work you do, but I do realize that it is HUGE! Thank you, thank you, thank you for making this so easy! (even when it's hard) Whatever happened yesterday has definitely been fixed. We are cruising, now, baby!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:31)", "body": "Hip, hip, HOORAY for the Spring team!! What would we do without all the dedication and hard work you do. Muchas gracias, merci, danke, and thank you ever so much."}, {"response": 33, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "Indeed, You have given us a treasure!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (09:57)", "body": "Susan and Joan....I wish I could do these kinds of added wonders...I do so delight in them....I was literally ROTLOL...Capitol! Capitol! Somehow, I knew I would not be alone in my sentiments....thank you all for joining me...I think the crew needed a pat on the back...we should probably do it more often!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (14:39)", "body": "Linda: I think the crew needed a pat on the back...we should probably do it more often! Linda -- I totally agree with you; after all, it's not as though we can vote them a 10% raise periodically. ;-)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (15:11)", "body": "Kathleen: after all, it's not as though we can vote them a 10% raise periodically. ;-) Why not be generous? I say what the hell, pay 'em double what they're getting now! They're worth it! ;-)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (15:17)", "body": "Why not be generous? I say what the hell, pay 'em double what they're getting now! They're worth it! ;-) I suppose you're expecting your regular percentage for this effort."}, {"response": 38, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (15:21)", "body": "I second to motion for a 100% raise for the staff. You have earned it. Seriously, thanks to Amy for beginning this and sticking with it. We all need to un-learn the office routine of blaming the computer for our frustrations when this particular computer is staffed by our benefactors and friends."}, {"response": 39, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (23:09)", "body": "Linda in GA: .I wish I could do these kinds of added wonders. You, too, can amaze your friends - you have only to pay a visit to Ann's most excellent tutorial (which is linked at the top of the main Austen page) to de-mystify the mysterious. She explains it all in English."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (09:24)", "body": "I archived the \"Nasty Days\" topic. That way it is not really censored but kind of buried. Probably it was my fault to introduce the topic; it's a natural dissonance generator. Sorry."}, {"response": 41, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (11:36)", "body": "It was good to get a glimpse to this other world of JA. Got to subscribe as well ;)"}, {"response": 42, "author": "fen", "date": "Wed, Apr  9, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "Terry- I noted this in Drool for you, but here it is again: the links at the top of this P&P conference are not viable thses days to Drool, Middlemarch, Austenarchives, etc., though we can get to those conferences via Main Menu and Conference Index, etc. Maybe you can fix the links at the top of the P&P conference so they work again, too. Thanks! P.S. Kind of ironic to read response #40 above from Amy, given what happened about a month later... :("}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr  9, 1997 (21:23)", "body": "That's too bad that the links are broken. I'll take a look and try to fix them, I don't think anyone would deliberately mess them up. Amy sent me a very friendly note the other day and she's building some more content for her kid here. And Kaf apologized for the way I was \"blindsided\". Hopefully, by keeping the door open folks will wander back in as they are welcome to do."}, {"response": 44, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (00:17)", "body": "Jake -- before the move, DNS was frequently very bad on Spring, so that it was often much quicker to get in using a raw IP number than with a domain name. So in the /usr/bbs/confs/austen/htmlheader file, Amy used <A HREF=\" http://208.199.212.10...\"> ; in the links in question, instead of <A HREF=\" http://www.spring.com/...\"> . The links are the same as they always were, but with the move to a new ISP (without any advance notice whatsoever, I might add -- talk of \"blindsiding\"!), and therefore a new IP address, they no longer point to anything... Probably it would have been best to have the links point to server-absolute URLs, such as <A HREF=\"/yapp/...\">, but when Amy did the HTML, she never had any idea that Spring would be moving..."}, {"response": 45, "author": "fen", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (14:13)", "body": "Good to \"see\" (weak drollerie) you again, HC! I obviously have my blind days, too, especially when trying to look at a virtual reality through 40-something eyes. :) Anyhoo, I enjoy visiting all these JA sites, Amy's and yours included, whenever my time is free, so keep up your great work, guys!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (22:30)", "body": "Let a thousand austen's bloom! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 159, "subject": "Whispers and riddles (was Secrets, Vaguely Encryted...)", "response_count": 57, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (00:43)", "body": "Last few messages:"}, {"response": 79, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (14:01)", "body": ""}, {"response": 80, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (09:52)", "body": ""}, {"response": 81, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "Is this where you plug your guitar Amy?"}, {"response": 82, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (11:15)", "body": "Did you pig out last night, Amy?"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (11:16)", "body": "It's a Lydia snort, J. Try it. I used to play guitar a little, but just acoustic."}, {"response": 84, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (12:09)", "body": "LOL Amy,now that's a SNORT!"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (12:44)", "body": "I love this snort, Amy! Are you going to get more sound bites for us? I would love to have a whole P&P2 sound scheme on my computer...maybe for the exclamation have Mrs. Bennet saying \"Oh Mr. Bennett!!!\" I think I'll put the snort as the error message...;-)"}, {"response": 86, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "and when your program shuts you can hear \ufffdI shall never see him again\ufffd while watching your Darcy screensaver/wallpaper disappear... Another reason to get back at your computer as quickly as possible :)"}, {"response": 87, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (13:14)", "body": ""}, {"response": 88, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (16:40)", "body": ""}, {"response": 89, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (19:28)", "body": "Oh?"}, {"response": 90, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (21:22)", "body": "Amy, what is the difference between the GRRRR.wav file and the snort.wav? The Grrrrr will play just fine, but the snort won't - Netscape claims that it is an invalid file."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (01:15)", "body": "Oh dear. Let me save it another way, and this time try to remember which way that is."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (01:32)", "body": "Joan, looks like they are both the Windows PCM flavor of the *.wav format, but the snort is 8-bit and the GRRR 16. I can't seem to FTP right now. I will try sending the file to you as an email attachment, if you would not mind testing it on the Mac. I would like to know for sure what works for whom."}, {"response": 93, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (05:06)", "body": "Got your mail - Netscape did not like the 16 bit version, either. Picky, picky, picky! Would sure like to figure out why!"}, {"response": 94, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (15:15)", "body": "Joan, I am moving this thread to Austen test. New topic: sound"}, {"response": 95, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (22:30)", "body": "Amy, are you having a lot of trouble FTPing to the spring? I seem to have intermitent problems with it too."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (00:47)", "body": "Yeah, Ann, once in a while. Not too often, but of course I have trouble whenever I really want to put up something fast."}, {"response": 3, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (02:42)", "body": "are you having a lot of trouble FTPing to the spring? I find it easier to ftp FROM the Spring. Telnet here and then fttp back to my local shell account, and \"get\" whatever - have never had any trouble with that. (Not that I have done nearly as much of it as either of you.) (BTW, the cruelest blow of all delivered by YAPP is when it complains that you have messed up a tag, will not let you pass until you have done it right, asks if you want to re-post, and then replies: Response aborted! Returning to current topic. Invalid command: :r - after first tossing out everything you had typed."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (07:50)", "body": "It is too cruel. When I make a response that has a lot of tags, and when I remember about it, I copy the response before submitting it."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (13:28)", "body": "Whenever that happens, Joan, I think the best way around it is to copy what you have written and back up to the original page and repost it with the correction. Every time I have an error like that, I seem to end up losing my post."}, {"response": 6, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (02:34)", "body": "The best way around is not to type in the stupid box at all, but copy and paste from what you typed elsewhere. Which is a royal pain for short posts. It's the \"when I remember\" part that makes things risky. I just can't imagine how YAPP ever got out of beta with an error like this!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (13:01)", "body": "It's also a pain if your computer lacks the memory to keep more than one App open at a time."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (16:35)", "body": "] how YAPP ever got out of beta is it out of beta?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (17:55)", "body": "Dave is/was writting the new version. Someone joked that Dave should let us use it free for beta testing. We can push any program to its limit (if not beyond)!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "It's the \"Expires: 1-Jan-1983\" HTTP headers that disable the browser back button that cause all these problems.,.."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "Es kam mir Spanish vor, Henri!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (03:53)", "body": "It's the \"Expires: 1-Jan-1983\" HTTP headers that disable the browser back button that cause all these problems.,.. Is there any way to edit this to read 1-Jan-2083? (or some other future date?)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (19:52)", "body": "Joan -- you wouldn't want to change the header to a future date, but to delete it entirely. You could do this in the master rc.yapp-bin file, but only for the whole site, not for individual conferences. If this were done, people would have to press their browser \"Reload\" button a lot to see newly-posted messages...."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "There must be some reason for not doing it this way, something besides seeking to keep us from the trouble of refreshing the page?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "If this were done, people would have to press their browser \"Reload\" button a lot to see newly-posted messages.... I am not understanding something here. As it is, we cannot see newly posted messages anyway without re-loading the entire conference. And if it re-loaded newly posted messages, at least the reload button would re-load something besides the text entry box!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (02:41)", "body": ""}, {"response": 17, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (03:02)", "body": "I always knew it would come to this some day, all of HC's rantings have been a desparate cry for help! ;-)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (15:26)", "body": ""}, {"response": 19, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (09:25)", "body": ""}, {"response": 20, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (09:35)", "body": ""}, {"response": 21, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (16:54)", "body": "Hmmmm....Able-bodied seaman. Manuel .....'Que? que?'"}, {"response": 22, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (12:21)", "body": ""}, {"response": 23, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "LOL Hil, love when he named is rat Basil"}, {"response": 24, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (16:34)", "body": "and then they put Basil in the ratatouille"}, {"response": 25, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (18:24)", "body": ""}, {"response": 26, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (19:18)", "body": ""}, {"response": 27, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (11:17)", "body": "Amy, tried to go to this cryptic place, but could not get in... ;-("}, {"response": 28, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (11:23)", "body": ""}, {"response": 29, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:57)", "body": "Amy, tried to go to this cryptic place, but could not get in... ;-( I got in and got about 3 inches of the top of a mysterious Dark Tower, and then, aftet transmission stopped for several minutes, I bailed out."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (23:53)", "body": "Modor is a funny place."}, {"response": 31, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "Oops, I made a slight mistake! Here's the corrected version:"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (08:08)", "body": "Beware."}, {"response": 33, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (20:05)", "body": ""}, {"response": 34, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (21:10)", "body": "And even more important MHC: If a news event occurs and there are no cameras there to record it, does it really happen???"}, {"response": 35, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (04:15)", "body": "Ann, scarry :0"}, {"response": 36, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (12:23)", "body": ""}, {"response": 37, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (13:33)", "body": "Beautiful, Henry. (Did you know that the letters freeze in an upright position while the cursor is dragging the screen scrolling bar -- on the right with netscape?)"}, {"response": 38, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (14:21)", "body": "Henry's Wizardry, wonderfully masterful"}, {"response": 39, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "Actually, I didn't make the twirling letters ;-)"}, {"response": 40, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (22:50)", "body": "Jane Austen did once write about a character named Rebecca; the following is excerpted from http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/fredelfr.html -- FREDERIC & ELFRIDA A NOVEL CHAPTER THE FIRST [...] They went that very evening to pay their respects to Mrs. Fitzroy & her two Daughters. On being shewn into an elegant dressing room, ornamented with festoons of artificial flowers, they were struck with the engaging Exterior & beautifull outside of Jezalinda, the eldest of the young Ladies; but e'er they had been many minutes seated, the Wit & Charms which shone resplendent in the conversation of the amiable Rebecca enchanted them so much, that they all with one accord jumped up and exclaimed: \"Lovely & too charming Fair one, notwithstanding your forbidding Squint, your greazy tresses & your swelling Back, which are more frightfull than imagination can paint or pen describe, I cannot refrain from expressing my raptures, at the engaging Qualities of your Mind, which so amply atone for the Horror with which your first appearance must ever inspire the unwary visitor.\" \"Your sentiments so nobly expressed on the different excellencies of Indian & English Muslins, & the judicious preference you give the former, have excited in me an admiration of which I can alone give an adequate idea, by assuring you it is nearly equal to what I feel for myself.\" Then making a profound Curtesy to the amiable & abashed Rebecca, they left the room & hurried home. From this period, the intimacy between the Families of Fitzroy, Drummond, and Falknor daily increased, till at length it grew to such a pitch, that they did not scruple to kick one another out of the window on the slightest provocation. During this happy state of Harmony, the eldest Miss Fitzroy ran off with the Coachman & the amiable Rebecca was asked in marriage by Captain Roger of Buckinghamshire. Mrs. Fitzroy did not approve of the match on account of the tender years of the young couple, Rebecca being but 36 & Captain Roger little more than 63. To remedy this objection, it was agreed that they should wait a little while till they were a good deal older. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 16, "subject": "TEP L.A. premiere pic with CF", "response_count": 10, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (10:30)", "body": "Thanks for the pointer, Zim. What a rake he seems here. Sorry for the weird cropping. I just did not want to take the time to brush Kirsten out. Amy"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (10:31)", "body": "Here try again."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (12:16)", "body": "Amy, my name is not that long. You have repeatedly cut my name 40% shorter, capital offense ! impolitic too - for it is provoking me to retaliate, Am. Zimei ;-)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (12:34)", "body": "Zi, It is a sign of endearment. A"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (14:30)", "body": "Amy, Do you mean 'rake' as a derogatory term? Its usually derogatory, isn't it?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (14:39)", "body": "Amy, Do you mean 'rake' as a derogatory term? Its usually derogatory, isn't it? ___________ Yes, I think he looks like his Circle of Friends character here."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (15:24)", "body": ": It is a sign of endearment. My dear A, I'm greatly honored. I trust you have detected the same affection in my previous message ? Z :Amy, Do you mean 'rake' as a derogatory term? Its usually derogatory, isn't it? :___________ : :Yes, I think he looks like his Circle of Friends character here. I thought he is rather cute, if you can de-link this man from the heroic Darcy for a moment. BTW, did you all see the (blonde) Jennifer/Colin BAFTA pic over FoF? they are having some major remodeling going on there, everytime I wander there I find something new."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (17:05)", "body": ":Yes, I think he looks like his Circle of Friends character here. That's a pity - its a ghastly character. But I don't see it in this pic: I like it."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (18:54)", "body": "Yeah, Colin definitely looks like trouble with a capital T in that pic. But then, I adore trouble. Thanks Amy, for the crop. Colin and Kristen looked a little too close in the original. Here's a quote to make you hate Kristen, from a recent newspaper interview. Oh, I can't find it right away. I paraphrase. She talks about the movie and then says, \"I get Fiennes and Firth. Lucky girl, aren't I? But then, they get me.\" Ugh!!! Someone strangler her, please."}, {"response": 10, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (15:20)", "body": "austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 160, "subject": "About our addiction", "response_count": 101, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (01:14)", "body": "Last few messages: __ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 22 of 185 [austen]: 12 signs that you are addicted to P&P2 Response 109 of 126: Linda In Ga. (Darcyfan) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (09:20) * 1 lines How abou this one....when you have paid $100 for the video and you still watch A&E to see the rebroadcasted series...commercials in all...because you can't bear the thought of it playing somewhere without you watching.....addicted and no turning back!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 22 of 185 [austen]: 12 signs that you are addicted to P&P2 Response 110 of 126: Wendy (summit) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (22:41) * 1 lines Sad but true, Linda...and I must say the commercials realy chopped up the flow of the purist version, too, and nearly rendered it unpalatable to me (despite the charms of Darcy)... :-/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 22 of 185 [austen]: 12 signs that you are addicted to P&P2 Response 111 of 126: Anne (Yeago) * Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (12:22) * 1 lines Y'all are cracking me up. not wanting to let others know, I have referd to CF as \"that guy who played Darcy\". I thought I had flipped out and was all alone!! Guess not.:-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 22 of 185 [austen]: 12 signs that you are addicted to P&P2 Response 112 of 126: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (12:42) * 4 lines Anne: I thought I had flipped out and was all alone!! Guess not.:-) No, no, not at all...you are in quite good company here! ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 22 of 185 [austen]: 12 signs that you are addicted to P&P2 Response 113 of 126: Myretta (mrobens) * Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (14:16) * 5 lines Cheryl: No, no, not at all...you are in quite good company here! ;-) This is not good company. It is the best. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 22 of 185 [austen]: 12 signs that you are addicted to P&P2 Response 114 of 126: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (15:35) * 2 lines ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 22 of 185 [austen]: 12 signs that you are addicted to P&P2 Response 115 of 126: Inko (Inko) * Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (16:46) * 3 lines You are addicted when you write a story about Young Fitz and your mind thinks of him as a smaller version of Darcy in P&P2, down to the dagginess and all!!!;-) My husband now refers to me as Little Fitz' mother, not realizing that it's the grown up Fitz I'm after!!;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 22 of 185 [austen]: 12 signs that you are addicted to P&P2 Response 116 of 126: Sharon (sld) * Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (19:23) * 4 lines [when you have paid $100 for the video and you still watch A&E to see the rebroadcasted series...commercials in all...] Okay, Linda, you are probably leading the pack! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 22 of 185 [austen]: 12 signs that you are addicted to P&P2 Response 117 of 126: Katy Kendall (kendall) * Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (22:05) * 3 lines ..because you can't bear the thought of it playing somewhere without you watching .. Linda, I did not watch it on A&E this past showing - but I felt I should be! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 22 of 185 [austen]: 12 signs that you are addicted to P&P2 Response 118 of 126: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (23:32) * 5 lines Inko: You are addicted when you write a story about Young Fitz and your mind thinks of him as a smaller version of Darcy in P&P2, down to the dagginess and all!!!;-) Ooh, be careful Inko...that's illegal in some states! ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 22 of 185 [austen]: 12 signs that you are addicted to P&P2 Response 119 of 126: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (23:43) * 5 lines Inko: You are addicted when you write a story about Young Fitz and your mind thinks of him as a smaller version of Darcy in P&P2, down to the dagginess and all!!!;-) Ooh, be careful Inko...that's illegal in some states! ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 22 of 185 [austen]: 12 signs that you are addicted to P&P2 Response 120 of 126: Mary C. Fox (MaryC) * Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (23:58) * 1 lines Count me in your club Linda. I actually did more listening than watching (except for my favorite parts) and amazingly heard dialogue I had never picked up on before because I was too busy watching the action in the scene. I was especially amazed to hear secondary dialogue in several of the scenes that I had totally missed before. And the commercials on 'Emma' were actually fun to watch, I am looking forward to Sunday night! -------------------------------------------------------------"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (02:31)", "body": "I was perusing the Old BB Archives, when I came across my first post on Sept. 17,1996! In vain have I struggled. It will not do. My feelings will not be repressed. You must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love P&P2. I, too, am hopelessly addicted, and would post numbers very similar to Tommye's were it not for the guilt and shame such numbers would oblige me to feel. My addiction has even lead me to repeated viewings alone, and in secret lest scenes arise unpleasant towards more than myself (\"you're not watching that AGAIN?\") I get my daily fix of Jane Austen by being an avid lurker of Austen-L, but my longing for more Darcy and Elizabeth was not satisfied until I stumbled on this BB a few days ago. Finally, people who know and understand what I am going through! But, like Tommye, I do not desire a cure, but an overdose (is such a thing possible?) Well, in the ensuing months, I believe I have finally overdosed, but like a true addict, my first thought upon regaining consciousness is \"more!\" Thank you all for five fabulous months, and the care and support you lend to me and my addiction! PS. What ever happened to Tommye? :-("}, {"response": 3, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (05:59)", "body": "I miss Tommye too, and felt her absense when I wandered through the archives. Doesn't it seem longer than 5 months? So glad you found us, Cheryl. You brighten up my day every single day."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (17:23)", "body": "Amy: *samooch*"}, {"response": 5, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (19:47)", "body": "Okay, everyone, here's what happened at lunch today: My dearest hubby, who, I believe enjoys hearing about everything as much as I enjoy being here, drew a parallel between what goes on here and the Rocky Horror Pic Show craze of our college days. He actually thinks that we ought to be required to dress in period costumes as we watch the video in obsession! (nobody does that, do they?)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "and, if they do where can I get one?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (20:14)", "body": "(nobody does that, do they?) and, if they do where can I get one? We ALL do that, Cindy. Didn't anyone tell you? Johanne will provide you with the patterns."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (20:56)", "body": "Cheryl....I love that first post! Fresh from being in your addiction all alone...just finding the rest of us....is there such a thing as an overdose????? \"-want to pust the video on pause or slow frames when there a close-up of him so you can sneak up to the set and \"give him a screen test kiss\" (as opposed to the miniature CyberKiss Colin only reachable by the click of your mouse/finger)\"................Don't you just love the way your hair stands straight up from the static electricty when you do that..or is it from the kiss?????"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (19:26)", "body": "Linda, it must be the kiss.Kissing Mel Gibson on the screen does not have the same effect.Honest. ;-}"}, {"response": 10, "author": "candace", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (23:58)", "body": "parallel between what goes on here and the Rocky Horror Pic Show craze Cindy -- LOL -- I have often thought about doing this. In fact when Kali and I met last December, we discussed just this object. Could you not see it? Speaking right along with the dialogue, yelling out \"Duck Face\" at Miss Bingley, throwing popcorn at the screen and screaming \"Liar! Liar!\" when Wickham comes on, sighing out loud in unison during \"The Look\", etc. I could go on and on! Well, arrange it Cindy, I'll be there in my little muslin dress and bonnett!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "candace", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (23:59)", "body": "...oh, one more: Everyone in unison chanting \"Left, Right, Left, Right\" ;-)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (00:11)", "body": "prob: I think I'm RL geographically way out of everyone else's reach. I seem to remember somebody's being in Houston, but it sounds more like there's lots in NE and upper MW. I was exceedingly disappointed that the Boston group didn't appear to be appropriately attired"}, {"response": 13, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (00:12)", "body": "well, there was one in the group who did appear to be wearing (or not) his clothes well"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (00:34)", "body": "We also made up a P&P drinking game. Everytime your character says \"indeed\" you have to chug."}, {"response": 15, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (06:57)", "body": "I love it!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (06:58)", "body": "So, I suppose the designated driver gets to be Ann deBourg?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (10:19)", "body": "Caroline...[Kissing Mel Gibson on the screen does not have the same effect.Honest.} I believe you...I believe you...I believe you!!!!! Candace....[Could you not see it? Speaking right along with the dialogue, yelling out \"Duck Face\" at Miss Bingley, throwing popcorn at the screen and screaming \"Liar! Liar!\" when Wickham comes on, sighing out loud in unison during \"The Look\", etc.} You don't do this?????? I knew I had gone too far!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (12:48)", "body": "Lines that must be spoken in unison; Other way, Mr. Collins.. Hearts, Mr. Collins, hearts! I would that he had sprained his ankle in the first dance. Astonishing.. and.. is it true? Abominable reply; how shall we punish him? They are hard upon our heels, make haste, make haste... Shelves in the closet...happy thought, indeed. I can't speak over any of Mr. Darcy's lines, for that would prevent me from hearing that lovely voice, so that I can play it back again accurately in my dreams. BTW, we will, of course, execute the entire MB Maggot, shall we not? I would like to see Amy and HC as the first couple, with Cheryl and Ann right behind..."}, {"response": 19, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (16:49)", "body": "]Lines that must be spoken in unison; How about AWWWW I want to go to Brighton!!! or Obstinate, headstrong gel!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:10)", "body": "hee hee Okay I can hear the inflections exactly, but not so sure I can reproduce them. In the same vein (should this be a new topic?): Why do American women (all Amer. women, as far as I know) melt instantaneously when we hear a gorgeous Brit. accent? At work we even have a hideous creature (well, extremely unattractive, anyway) from Australia that we deal with who melts the hearts, so long as we only have to listen to the voice. (He's also a fair geek, so once we get to know him, the magic certainly wears off, but let a new woman into our office, and we have to peel her off the floor to hang up the phone)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:52)", "body": "ROTFLOL - ladies - I cannot contribute anything to this madness until I go away and finish laughing. 'So, I suppose the designated driver gets to be Ann deBourg?\" ... \"throwing popcorn at the screen and screaming \"Liar! Liar!\" when Wickham comes on\" ... you are so funny!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (22:46)", "body": "] Why do American women (all Amer. women, as far as I know) melt instantaneously when we hear a gorgeous Brit. accent? ]At work we even have a hideous creature (well, extremely unattractive, anyway) from Australia ... Hate to say it ladies, but it's been a long time since (most) Australians thought of themselves as British. I know you guys have trouble distinguishing our accents (most of the time people assume I'm British, which most of my English friends think is hysterical) But if you think he's got a cute accent its because its AUSTRALIAN... I'd have to say that we (that is most Australian women of my acquantance) don't get very excited about American accents. But when a Scot starts talking.... ;-) (that's purely personal and not meant to apply to all those other Aussie women out there)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Becks", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (23:56)", "body": "How I love Aussie accents.........."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (10:21)", "body": "Mari...I love those! How about these: No lace, no lace, Mrs. Bennet, I beg you! ..Are three of the silliest girls in England. All? What? All five out at once? How much I shall have to conceal! Yes, go, go...I would not wish you back again. Perhaps we might visit Pemberley after all! Of all this I might have been mistress. (one of my favorites) Who is it? You will never guess! Who is it? Mr Darcy! Engaged to Mr. Darcy! No, you are joking!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (12:03)", "body": "We need more lines, of course, so do not hesitate to add to them. But I believe that we need some additional couples lines up for our version of MB Maggot; how could I forget Kali and Jeremy Knightley?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:10)", "body": "Seeing no photo as yet here of our delectable Colin Firth, here 'tis:"}, {"response": 27, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "Hmm. Or, go see it at... http://www.grin.net/~meluchie/firthlist/fl_colin.htm"}, {"response": 28, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (21:18)", "body": "That link.. Now, I don't speak any Finnish. But I think I can work out what SEKSISYMBOLI means in relation to CF."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (21:19)", "body": "]lines which must be spoken in unison the whole of Mrs. Bennet's 'fluttering' speech, ending with (paraphrasing since I haven't seen it this week) \"Brother, if you are not kind to us, I do not know what we shall do!\""}, {"response": 30, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "My dear Kate (and everyone else), I certainly intended no slight on anyone at all. My grouping of the Brit, Aussie, ... accents was undoubtedly the result of my own ear's inadequate discernment, I know. Please do not shoot me. I certainly can hear some distinct qualities, but my lumping them together is more a function of the result they produce, rather than an assumption that there is no difference. I don't doubt that the American accents don't generate the same drool potential in others! Heavens, we tend to poke fun at our own regional differences, as well. However, I still maintain that these (accents of people who speak English as their native tongue, regardless of the country - except USA) have a mighty power over the average, unsuspecting, red-blooded, American female. Anybody? [now, did I fix it?]"}, {"response": 31, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (21:26)", "body": "Unison lines: has anybody suggested the several \"Oh, Mr. Bennet!\"s"}, {"response": 32, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (21:37)", "body": "I suggest some of us wear snouts so we can snort along with Lydia!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (21:53)", "body": "] I certainly intended no slight on anyone at all And absolutely none was taken Cindy. I was just using the opportunity to vent a bit. I quite like being mistaken for a Brit occasionally. People are actually quite shocked to think we don't all sound like Paul Hogan. It's especially amusing because some upper class Brits regard OUR accent as particularly obnoxious, so when they discover that many Americans can't tell the difference, they get a bit miffed!!! So just enjoy that Aussie male, aurally if not in person. I can let you know where there are more, if that would help!!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (22:21)", "body": "so, I grovelled for nothing?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (22:34)", "body": "Fraid so. :-)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (22:37)", "body": "33 : People are actually quite shocked to think we don't all sound like Paul Hogan. Know the feeling, a couple of years ago someone thought I was from France, and when I told him I came from Quebec, never did he know some were speaking french in North America and to my knowledge he still do not believe it (thinks I was pulling his leg)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (22:44)", "body": "Well, now that we have established how wonderful it would be for all of us together to do a \"Rocky Horror Picture Show\" event with P&P2, do you think that if we got our husbands and significant others together they would act more like \"Mystery Science Theater 3000\"?"}, {"response": 38, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (22:51)", "body": "can you imagine the gnashing of teeth trying to get them to fill out the couples for the Maggot? not a happy thought"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (00:26)", "body": "But when a Scot starts talking.... ;-) Heavy, HEAVY *sigh* ...and the Irish ain't too bad, neither! Another favorite (I'm paraphrasing here): You will be sorely missed, Lizzie. Until you and your sister Jane return, I shall not hear two words of sense spoken together."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (01:30)", "body": "Re American's fascination with British accents and the rest of the world being decidedly unimpressed with American ones: The culprit here is American movies and television. They are all over the world, Baywatch is the highest rated American television show overseas, for heaven's sake! The American accent is all pervasive and holds no mystery, no allure, it is too common the world over. But in the US, we hear British accents almost exclusively on PBS and in highly cultured, literary adaptations. It is no wonder that we find the British accent to be intellegent, sophisticated, mysterious. The lesson, my friends is that familiarity does indeed breed contempt!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (07:48)", "body": "Susan, thanks for mentioning the Irish! Reading your comment, I just remembered the name of the miniseries that introduced Pierce Brosnan to me - The Manions of America. I forget what his character, but decidedly less polished than Remington Steele, but ever so nice"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (12:13)", "body": "\"The culprit here is American movies and television. They are all over the world, Baywatch is the highest rated American television show overseas, for heaven's sake!\" Actually, I think \"Babewatch\" has been supplanted by \"Hercules\"!! Which I actually think might be a slight improvement. \"Hercules\" has a sense of humor about itself. I loved \"Mannions of America\". My best friend and I met and became friends because of that show and later \"Remington Steele\"."}, {"response": 43, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (00:39)", "body": "I cannot believe it! I have just uploaded 300 sound bytes from P&P2 (many requested by people in the Pemberley chat room, yet you have chosen many that are NOT on the list! If your browser can do sounds, click on the underlined quotes. Some are a bit large and you might have to wait 2 or 3 minutes for them to transfer. (For a complete list of what is already uploaded, check out topic 17 in the Austentest conference.) Lines that must be spoken in unison; Other way, Mr. Collins.. Hearts, Mr. Collins, hearts! I would that he had sprained his ankle in the first dance. Astonishing.. and.. is it true? Abominable reply; how shall we punish him? They are hard upon our heels, make haste, make haste! Shelves in the closet...happy thought, indeed. AWWWW I want to go to Brighton!!! Obstinate, headstrong gel! No lace, no lace, Mrs. Bennet, I beg you! ..Are three of the silliest girls in England. All? What? All five out at once? How much I shall have to conceal! Yes, go, go...I would not wish you back again. Perhaps we might visit Pemberley after all! Of all this I might have been mistress. (one of my favorites) Who is it? You will never guess! Who is it? Mr Darcy! Engaged to Mr. Darcy! No, you are joking! You will be sorely missed, Lizzie. Until you and your sister Jane return, I shall not hear two words of sense spoken together."}, {"response": 44, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (09:41)", "body": "What a treasure-trove of goodies! Maybe we need to change the name of this thread to 'Feeding our Addiction."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (12:58)", "body": "[some upper class Brits regard OUR accent as particularly obnoxious, so when they discover that many Americans can't tell the difference, they get a bit miffed!!!] Kate, Some upperclass Brits regard anything outside their own circle as obnoxious! Fortunately for us, our favourite upperclass Brit, residing in Derbyshire, does learn his lesson. May I say here that I find many North American accents delightful? Iam paricularly fond of the Newfoundland and Georgia ones!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "In years of traveling alone to large meetings, when surrounded by strangers, I learned to listen for Georgia and Mississippi accents. The people who used them were the most open to welcoming a lone 40-something woman into their conversations - to their table at the banquet."}, {"response": 47, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "Oh, what a nice recommendation!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (08:35)", "body": "Okay, Katy, tell . Why are people from Geo'ga and MississIppee so friendly?"}, {"response": 49, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (11:51)", "body": "Why are people from Geo'ga and MississIppee so friendly?... I do not know. May it was only very gracious manners and not friendliness at all. I only learned that on those occassions then I was without acquaintances and was running low on social 'moxie', I could count on GA and MS natives for safe anchorage. Since my own accept is hybrid \"Mid-West-East-Tennessee-Southern-Ontario\" that no one in the country identifies with, it was not because I sounded 'like home' to them. Once, during a budget conscious time in our travel department, I (and many others in the meeting group) ended up with a rather scary three block walk between the hotel and the convention center. Any man would kindly accept my company between buildings if I asked him to. GA and MS men seemed to look around for women going their way and would offer their company for the walk."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (13:24)", "body": "Well, I must tell you my story about a very witty southerner. This is a true story. We had flown into Kansas City, MO, and had a car reserved at Thrifty Car Rental. They were off-site, and we had to take a shuttle there. It was about 10 pm. When we got there, there were only two people ahead of us, so it looked pretty good. 30 minutes later we had been joined by more arrivals, who all waited and watched with us in increasing exasperation at the inefficiency of their check-in routine, and the dim-wit edness of the staff. We had yet to be waited on. At this point, all three of the staff had left the office on some part of their mysterious duties, and one woman in the crowd said, clearly and calmly, ''This is the slowest place I've ever been, and I'm from Alabama''. The room was still resounding with snickers 10 minutes later when we were finally called to the counter. Five years later I still grin when I think about this, or whenever I meet anyone from Alabama!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (06:38)", "body": "Another sign: Your friends ask you why are you so quiet, how can you explain you're thinking about the next chapter in Anne's story?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (14:59)", "body": "LOL, Aylet ! And you are never bored, cause if there is a spare moment you can sink back into P&P and write a few words..."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:54)", "body": "]Your friends ask you why are you so quiet, how can you explain you're thinking about the next chapter in Anne's story? Or you look forward to doing tasks you previously hated (copying comes to mind) because it gives you time to work out a sticky plot situation."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (16:28)", "body": "Isn't it horrible when you have to do housework and homework instead of dreaming about P&P!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (12:54)", "body": "Caroline, you are wasting valuable dreaming time! An essential part of any routine household chore is the opportunity it gives you to daydream about P&P. My husband is beginning to wonder why the living room carpet suddenly needs such frequent vacuuming (just call me Livia....)"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (13:08)", "body": "LOL Mari! Is it getting threadbare and worn out? I must try to join work and pleasure like you do...My home is beginning to look all forsaken and neglected...As I have to devote my mind to other things only vaguely connected to Austen or Darcy when I am at work, I tend to consider myself entitled to some reverie and private videoviewing, springvisiting or patchworking for the fan fic when I am at home. An occasional rush to the washingmachine or kitchen is done to hush my conscience..."}, {"response": 57, "author": "mpk", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:55)", "body": "Ann2: I entice myself to complete some chore by *rewarding* myself with videowatching, springvisiting and netsurfing; however, it is more likely than not that the dishes stack up! Another line to chant in unison: Capital! Capital! I really love the idea of holding a P&P audience participation party ala Rocky Horror. Perhaps alternating the *party* sites to accomodate the geographic distances of all our sisters and brothers?"}, {"response": 58, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:15)", "body": "Another line to chant in unison: \"And tell Lydia, not to make any directions about wedding clothes till she had seen me, for she does not know which are the best warehouses!!!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "joanna", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (09:29)", "body": "How about this line: (as best I remember)\"He's looks as handsome as his portrait, though perhaps not so formally attired!\" Thanks to everyone for reassuring me that I am not going crazy. I first saw P&P2 when it was last on A&E, promptly ordered the tapes, and have watched them 3 times in the span of 10 days. My husband has threatened to hide them from me, and I had begun to think I needed to see a shrink. I replay my favorite scenes over and over in my head. I used to laugh at my Trekkie colleagues and their obsessions--looks like the last laugh is on me. If I am crazy, I see I've got great company!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (14:33)", "body": "Joanna -- this is not just great company, it is the best place for all of us. Everyone here understands what the others are going through. No more need to hide from everyone!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (15:37)", "body": "Joanne, welcome to the crowd. But, let me warn you--this obsession doesn't go away any time soon - I've had it for a year longer than you!! I saw P&P2 the first time it aired in Jan. '96, and thought I was really out of my mind for the next 9 months until I went online and found this group. Now I know I'm out of mind, but only in the best company!!;-)"}, {"response": 62, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (12:40)", "body": "Big welcome Joanna, received a similar reaction from hubby, but told him he could keep is computer videogames as long as I have my tapes :) ]this obsession doesn't go away any time soon Actually, think of it as the Universe, it expands neverendlessly"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (14:26)", "body": "It is not just Jane Austen novels, movies, books or Colin Firth but it is computer related too."}, {"response": 64, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (03:05)", "body": "Joanna, my husband has suggested for all the hubbies to start another bulletin board on how to get their wives back in perspective, focused and less obssessed!! So, you're not alone.. especially in here."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (09:00)", "body": "Joanna, my husband has suggested for all the hubbies to start another bulletin board on how to get their wives back in perspective, focused and less obssessed!! So, you're not alone.. especially in here. __ Nothing so easy: Let him register for it here, on the conference index page. http://208.199.212.10/yapp-bin/restricted/index Only the thing is, we run it. The thing about \"getting\" their wives back in perspective, Serena? Tell him to go ahead and use that kind of language on the new conference. And see where it gets him."}, {"response": 66, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "LOL...when I read your post to my husband, he said that he sees our illness more like a cold...it has to run it's course."}, {"response": 67, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (21:48)", "body": "Let's FEED this cold!"}, {"response": 68, "author": "lmh", "date": "Sun, Mar 30, 1997 (13:50)", "body": "I am a new to the group and must say I am thankful to have found you. I recently saw P1 and P2 on A and E. I was hooked. Since then I have found my self scouring the bookstores for the book \"The making of Pride and Prejudice\", I sent away for the \"Darcy Story\" and have watched the videos of Pride and Prejudice countless number of times. I thought I was going abit strange that is until I found other addicts to the story. Bless all of you. I love reading all all of your observations and hope that I to will contibute in some small way for now it is comforting to know that there are others liked me who are hooked."}, {"response": 69, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar 30, 1997 (16:11)", "body": "I'm thankful you're here. Welcome!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "joanna", "date": "Tue, Apr  1, 1997 (08:02)", "body": "Well, while I was home alone yesterday, I had time to secretly skim through my favorite parts of P&P2. Each time I do, I get a new perspective on fleeting glances, casual remarks, etc. Also, I finally got my hands on a copy of The Making of Pride and Prejudice and am wondering: if the site for the Bennett's residence is the same place that is pictured at the beginning and end of my favorite Britcom, To the Manor Born? The angle of the photo on the cover of The Making of Pride and Prejudice is very similar to the angle of the one on To the Manor Born, giving them the similarity I had not noticed before."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Lilli", "date": "Sun, Apr  6, 1997 (00:15)", "body": "I was delighted to find all of you -- I thought I was the only one addicted watching Darcy on P&P, over and over again. This addiction has been going on over a year now since I first was stunned to see it on A & E. I keep reading the book and going back to the video. Saw the full 6 hours the other day from the video store (can't yet afford to own it) and loved seeing the extra scenes - especially of Darcy. Thank you so much for being here - I don't feel so guilty for my sneaking glimpses of P & P ever week now that I know there are others out there who share my passion."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Apr  6, 1997 (01:23)", "body": "There are lots of us, and CF as Darcy seems to be one of the glues that holds us all together! You might also want to try http://www2.shore.net/~mrobens/"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Lilli", "date": "Tue, Apr  8, 1997 (00:49)", "body": "Thanks, Susan for telling me about the BB and the Republic of Pemberly! I got a quick glimpse of it tonight. I plan on getting there as soon as I can, when my 15 year old isn't pacing behind me waiting for me to get off the computer. I can't concentrate on writing about CF and Darcy when a family member is staring at me -- somehow I feel silly (or guilty). But, perhaps a quick question can be sent off -- why isn't CF in the magazines more here in the U.S.? Or, have I been looking in the wrong places. And did anyone think Darcy looked like Elvis in the scene where he looked back at Elizabeth on his way out the door at the Inn when she told him about Lydia -- was it just the made-up eyebrows and sideburns or perhaps the \"look\"? Just a crazy thought, but perhaps this is part of the appeal. And why didn't he look as dashing in the English Patient? Sorry, I'm getting carried away."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Apr  9, 1997 (09:42)", "body": "Yep, you're hooked. There are lots of U.S. articles; for a start, try Friends of Firth at: http://www.grin.net/~meluchie/firthlist/ We CRr's like him in just about every role; I didn't notice the Elvis sighting, though. Liked him a lot in Nostromo as Charles Gould, but he hasn't topped Darcy for me yet."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Lilli", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (00:30)", "body": "Yes, indeed you could, and may say I'm hooked on all this and it's a good thing I'm half English so that I have a good excuse to be interested in P&P, etc. etc. Here I am at 12 (or is it 1am? The clocks just changed) I have been trying for 2 hours to get onto AOL with no avail. I was going to try to get on to FOF and, or Shore.net, but tomorrow is another day. For now I just want to say I taped Nostromo but haven't had the nerve to watch it yet since its long and everyone at my house would notice and ay \"isn't that the guy that was in P&P?\". I have the Valmont tape and secretly watch that now and then -- bet you can guess what scenes (l loved CF in that) Also, I enjoyed the movie the Advocate (Didn't like him in Circle of friends, though). By the way, I don't mean to be dense, but who are the CR's? I know who CF is. I do want to talk Jane and her books/movies, but you all have sooo many discussion sites and topics I'm still reading what you've all said already, before I start putting my two cents (or pence) in -- I've thought alot about JA and read all her books several times (esp. P&P). Went to a JA lunchen where the topic was why is JA so popular now . I've got my own little view on that one, and I'm finding out that several women I'v known well for 20 years have been passionate JA fans all these years! And a couple of their husbands enjoyed P&P as well. My significant other said he liked P&P the best of all the JA movies (that I made him watch). Thank goodness, it gave me an excuse to rave on about it."}, {"response": 76, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (21:10)", "body": "Didn't like him in Circle of friends, though. I liked his acting, as always, but I didn't like the character Simon. Besides being a jerk, he was too effeminate or something for me. And I don't like the mustache on Colin without a beard to go along with it. By the way, I don't mean to be dense, but who are the CR's? You're not dense; I am!!! I meant \"CF\" -- that was a typo that I didn't catch until after I'd already sent the message! I have only been a JA fan for about 8 years, but I'm a whole-hearted one. I really love her writing; it's so witty. Haven't been able to get my husband interested in any part of it. You're lucky!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "fen", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (09:36)", "body": "Since the link for the Drool conference isn't operative, try this when any of you want to post over there on CF, etc.: http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/drool/all"}, {"response": 78, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "Is THAT why nobody's posting over there? I can still get in, and was missing the comments. Thanks, Jake; c'mon, ladies, let's DROOL!"}, {"response": 79, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (17:29)", "body": "Amy wrote that she coded the link with the old ip address, so I need to get in there and code in the new ip address. Or put in a relative link. Any html'ers among the survivors here?"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Lilli", "date": "Sun, Apr 13, 1997 (16:08)", "body": "Thanks for assuring me about the CR's and my sanity! I've noticed that a couple of my words had letters chopped off (a \"y\" and \"e\" ) when my communications were submitted -- can't figure out yet why. I have enough of a English grammar handicap, but I can spell \"I've\". I greatly admire and esteem JA's writing. I know I read P&P in high school, but didn't really appreciate her until a couple of years ago when I read P&P again (before the movies came out). I started to work at a high school library (yes another library person - but I'm not an English major, as you can tell -- I've a graphic art/painter background) The more I read her books the more I think she is amazing. I'm reading an old book (1949) about JA by Elizabeth Jenkins that talks about Jane's real life and family along with comments about her books and characters (Darcy, Elizabeth, etc.) If I remember correctly, Jane often spoke of her characters like they were real people to some members of her family. No wonder we almost breath life nto Darcy and P&P2, Jane and CF made him so real. Yes, yes, I know P&P2 isn't Really real, but it's OK to dream -- I read it somewhere that it was OK, and Healthy to dream, honest. By the way, I didn't mean I didn't like CF's acting in Circle of Friends. But, like you, I thought the character was a jerk. I read someone in the P&P2 conference - somewhere - bring up the point that the girl involved with him might have had some motives of her own that were questionable. I'll have to watch Circle of Friends again - someday. When I like an actor's work generally, it's painful for me to see them playing a reprehensible character. I may admire their artistic abilities to play a c d, or have an effeminate side (like CF in Apartment Zero) but I don't usually like to watch them in that character over and over as I do Darcy. And on that note, I think try out the drool HTML."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Lilli", "date": "Sun, Apr 13, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "Again I got chopped off -- missing a comma after yes, and it should read \"play a cad\". Thanks, I feel better now."}, {"response": 82, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Apr 14, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "]I read someone in the P&P2 conference - somewhere - bring up the point that the girl involved with him might have had some motives of her own that were questionable. What a coincidence; that was me, too! I think she was just using Simon to get out of her own lower-class life, just like she used Benny's boyfriend when Simon wouldn't marry her after she got pregnant. She was not a nice person! ]Again I got chopped off It happens to me, too. I think it maybe has to do with a paragraph being too long, or making a change to text you've already typed or something."}, {"response": 83, "author": "Lilli", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "]What a coincidence; that was me, too! How fun - that I would quote you to you! I'm starting to believe there are no such things as coincidences. I wonder what Elizabeth would have said about coincidences when Darcy came back early and she was poking around his property. (How embarassing - but he did take it quite well) Yes, Nan (was that Nan?) wasn't really very nice either when she tried to take Benny's boyfriend away. I guess she was desperate. I just figured out how to \"copy\" a line from a previous response and put it into this \"response\" to comment. I had wondered how you did it - now I'm curious how you were able to make Italics. Oh, and I did notice a couple of other missing letters in other peoples notes. (I'm still trying to catch up on what you all have been saying about P&P2. And I had great fun reading some of the Pemberly \"stories\" written by your group. I have been making up some alternate P&P2 plots and some JA era stories in my head too - like when I'm ironing.) By the way, how does one go about starting a New Topic? Not that I actually have one yet, just asking in case I come up with a bright idea."}, {"response": 84, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (20:25)", "body": "I'm starting to believe there are no such things as coincidences. I agree! There are lots of wonderful co-winky-dinks (as a friend of mine says) in JA's books; they're fun! (was that Nan?) Yes, of \"Nan, oh Nan, OHHH NANNN!!!\" fame! now I'm curious how you were able to make Italics. Put an i surrounded by greater than and less than symbols (I can't actually do it, or it will just italicize my text here) before what you want to italicize, then at the end, do the same thing with a \"/\" (don't use the quote marks) in front of the i. Have you been to the HTML tutorial at the top of this page? Check it out; it's chock full of neat stuff and is how I primarily learned. I have been making up some alternate P&P2 plots and some JA era stories in my head too - like when I'm ironing.) A new author! There can never be too many! By the way, how does one go about starting a New Topic? At the top of the Austen Conference menu, there's a button called New Topic. Click on it and follow your heart! Lilli? (is that what you liked to be called?), you do know about the other site at http://www2.shore.net/~mrobens/ ?"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Lili", "date": "Fri, Apr 18, 1997 (06:37)", "body": "]Lilli? (is that what you liked to be called?) Yes, now it is anyway - most people around me say Lil - but I'm going through a mid-life crisis and really like Lilli better. (I'mnamed after my Englishgrandmother and she liked to be called Lily.) Not to confuse you, I had to log-on as Lili today because I'm trying out AOL and couldn't get on the conference as Lilli . (Now you're probably sorry you asked!!) ]do you know about the other site at http://www2.shore.net/~mrobens/ ? Yes, thanks! Went there last night (midnight, again) - saw you there! That was You, wasn't it? And much enjoyed reading your ooops! I made my own ooops by doing something wrong with the italics - I printed some info on HTML from Amy's tutorial and will try to be spectacular with my expertise next time I write (or maybe not!) At least my addiction to P&P2 is at teaching me to (try to) become computer literate - is it not?"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Apr 19, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "Hi, Lilli! Yes, that was me. I didn't put \"big\" closers in, but I did put \"I\" closers in, so I couldn't understand why it wasn't closing italics. Anyway, there's nowhere to practice there (like there used to be here), so if you screw up, everyone knows it! I agree that I'm learning about Jane Austen and my computer at the same time."}, {"response": 87, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Apr 19, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "By the way, it's my tutorial, not Amy's!"}, {"response": 88, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Apr 19, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "Aubery may have been looking for this tutorial."}, {"response": 89, "author": "Lili", "date": "Sat, Apr 19, 1997 (23:04)", "body": "]By the was, it's MY tutorial, not Amy's. OOOOPPS!! Sorry, Ann! I must have typed that at midnight, when I was sleep deprived or something! A thousand pardons! I can see that alot of hours and work went into making that very helpful tutorial, and I for one, really appreciate your having provided that info. (I haven't had a chance yet to actually read through the whole thing, so I don't know how to make BOLD yet - hence the CAPITALS.) ]Susan, I did see the New Topic button. (It was right in front of me all the time!) And as soon as I can think of something new to say I'll use it. But, I haven't gone through all the archives yet to see what's old !"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Lili", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (17:24)", "body": "]I don't know how to make BOLD yet - hence the CAPITALS.) Ann, please excuse any unintentional rudeness on my part with the capitals. I read somewhere later that capitals mean shouting - which I didn't mean to do. And Susan, please excuse any unintentional rudeness on my part with all of my italics that I've been making - I was just so excited to be able to actually make them I fear I've overdone it and offended you all."}, {"response": 91, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 24, 1997 (16:18)", "body": "b is the tag for bold. Enclosed in angle brackets of course."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Lili", "date": "Thu, Apr 24, 1997 (20:43)", "body": "]I don't know how to make BOLD yet... Thanks , terry!"}, {"response": 93, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Apr 29, 1997 (00:13)", "body": "Lili, no offense taken! We're all learning together..."}, {"response": 94, "author": "Lili", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (19:44)", "body": "]Lili, no offense taken! We're all learning together... Thanks, Susan, for your encouragement! I've been tied up with domestic stuff and haven't been able to get on the computer (or watch P&P2 lately) - bummer!). Terry - I can't seem to get on the Pemberly Chat Room from AOL. I guess I need to call AOL up and find out why - has anyone else had problems getting onto the chat room?"}, {"response": 95, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May 20, 1997 (08:19)", "body": "No, but I haven't tried, I'll give it a try this weekend. Is the link working ok?"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Derek", "date": "Wed, May 21, 1997 (05:07)", "body": "I'm a new boy on the Net. Ive been browsing for the last hour and feel rather like I felt when I signed up for an aerobics class and found myself one man amongst 30 women! How do I initiate a new topic? I think it would be really interesting a) to compare P&P1 with P&P2 and b) to assemble an ideal cast list from both productions (or have these things already been done?)."}, {"response": 97, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 21, 1997 (08:07)", "body": "It's easy just click on the new topic button. If you have trouble, I can add you to the list of users that can create topics. Let me know if you have difficulty with this."}, {"response": 98, "author": "Derek", "date": "Fri, May 23, 1997 (05:08)", "body": "Terry, thanks. Am I am being extremely stupid? I don't seem to have a \"new topic\" button only \"next topic\" and \"previous topic\". Presumably \"new topic\" is not visible to me unless you add me to the list. I can see the problems with people creating new topics by the score. the conference can become a little \"cluttered\". Perhaps its best if I float a few ideas first in the appropriate new ideas topic and see if there is any interest."}, {"response": 99, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May 23, 1997 (08:13)", "body": "Sounds like a good plan. Glad you're checking in Derek."}, {"response": 100, "author": "Lili", "date": "Thu, May 29, 1997 (18:58)", "body": "]Terry - I can't seem to get on the Pemberly Chat Room from AOL. I guess I need to call AOL up and find out why - has anyone else had problems getting onto the chat room? ]No, but I haven't tried, I'll give it a try this weekend. Is the link working ok? Terry - sorry it's taken me a week to answer - family has been hogging computer. I'm not sure what you mean by link - other sites are coming in ok (like Pemberley) - I got onto the chat room ok in Win-Net one night, but not on AOL. Got some kind of message like server can't find it. We're probably going to can AOL anyway - hubbie doesn't like it - it's too slow for him. Did you ever try it? If we do keep AOL I'll call them up and ask what's up. Thanks - LL"}, {"response": 101, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May 30, 1997 (08:40)", "body": "Thanks for helping to keep AOL in line. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 161, "subject": "Forget this topic", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 162, "subject": "More Darcy's Story", "response_count": 119, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (08:20)", "body": "Recent messages about Darcy's Story: __ Topic 114 of 187 [austen]: Darcy's Story Response 164 of 198: Karen Bowdre (Karen) * Sat, Feb 8, 1997 (00:09) * 1 lines If any of you discuss 'Darcy's Story' at Pemberley, let me know when. One suggestion - not this weekend, since I won't have access to chat. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 114 of 187 [austen]: Darcy's Story Response 165 of 198: Sharon (sld) * Sun, Feb 9, 1997 (17:09) * 4 lines [ not this weekend, since I won't have access to chat ] When will you have access? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 114 of 187 [austen]: Darcy's Story Response 166 of 198: Anne (Anne3) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (11:14) * 8 lines The nice folks at Copperfield Books read my sad tale of getting a defective copy of Darcy's Story, and sent me a replacement, with their compliments! Now that is what I call handsome, gentleman/womanlike behavior! They sent it out airmail on Monday, Feb. 3rd, and I received it later that week, even though their order form says to allow 28 days for delivery. Their address is: Copperfield Books Room 38 Hillbrook House Lyncombe Vale Road Bath BA2 4LS England Copies are 9 pounds including postage. An international money order can be obtained (in the U.S. at least) at post offices, and is equivilent to about $14, same price as at JA Books. Five copies are 36 pounds, a 20% saving. Now how do I get any work done today with this sitting on my desk? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 114 of 187 [austen]: Darcy's Story Response 167 of 198: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (11:33) * 1 lines It IS extremely addictive! I couldn't help re-reading within a few days either. Just really liked Aylmer's approach and choices. Any word as to when we can do the \"advance crit\"? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 114 of 187 [austen]: Darcy's Story Response 168 of 198: Amy (Amy) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (11:37) * 2 lines Who has it on order now and wants us to wait. Tell when you expect it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 114 of 187 [austen]: Darcy's Story Response 169 of 198: Johanne (JohanneD) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (14:48) * 1 lines I do, expecting it end of Feb, early March from JABooks, maybe sooner ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 114 of 187 [austen]: Darcy's Story Response 170 of 198: Carolyn Esau (Carolyn) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (16:20) * 2 lines I ordered by fax on friday to the internet book store. I got confirmation of the order this morning by email. So I am now playing the waiting game. I also ordered my own copy of \"Making of....\" after renewing the library's copy for 3 months. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 114 of 187 [austen]: Darcy's Story Response 171 of 198: Ann (Ann) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (17:51) * 1 lines Does anyone know how many copies JABooks still has in stock. (I know they have been ambivelent about telling people). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 114 of 187 [austen]: Darcy's Story Response 172 of 198: Lisa (lisaC) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (18:35) * 1 lines It is very addicitve. I have just begun reading it for a third time to get ready for the discussion but it appears that I'll have enough time to read it a forth time before we start analyzing it to death. I can't wait I hope your copies arrive soon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 114 of 187 [austen]: Darcy's Story Response 173 of 198: Lisa (lisaC) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (18:37) * 1 lines Maybe I should start watch Sesame Street to learn how to spell FOURTH, but I fear my addiction has overtaken my senses and barely anything can tear me away from anything that's not P&P related. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 114 of 187 [austen]: Darcy's Story Response 174 of 198: maud dixon (maud) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (18:39) * 6 lines I thought I'd get my copy this week from the bookstore in Boston (Waterstone?). I called today and they told me it's on back order b/c so many people have asked for it. I was angry b/c they'd told me 3 weeks ago they'd call if it needed to be back ordered. Trid JA Books and couldn't even get them on the phone. I'll try Copperfield tommorrow. Feeling somewhat desparate and definitely deprived atTthis point. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 114 of 187 [austen]: Darcy's Story Response 175 of 198: Amy (Amy) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (19:15) * 2 lines Oooh, looks like we need a director. Cheryl, Amy2 or anybody else, you want to coordinate, set the start date and organize borrowing arrangements? I'll make my copy will be available for loan by mail by the weekend. ------------------------------------------------"}, {"response": 2, "author": "June", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "Thanks, Cheryl. I believe I'll give Jane Austin Books a call first, though. Will let you know..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "kate", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (21:58)", "body": "I emailed JA books last Saturday (15th) but no sign of my book yet. Panic!!!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (00:23)", "body": "Kate, I finally got an E-mail message from JABooks late last night - they're all out, but expect to ship this week. Methinks I'll be way behind!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (11:26)", "body": "Amy2: Do divulge your master plan, Cheryl! OK. I think the time is now right to now reveal the MASTER PLAN Step 1. Read Darcy's Story. Step 2. Post your thoughts, reactions, insights, quips, rants and bon mots here at this topic beginning this Saturday, March 1. End of Master Plan. It's brillancy lies in it's simplicity, I believe..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (14:09)", "body": "Cheryl dear, the mere sound of your voice is great !"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (14:15)", "body": "Hybris got me there, I tried one of Ann's new movable darlings but it all came to nothing."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (16:36)", "body": "Ann2: Cheryl dear, the mere sound of your voice is great ! Ann darling, I miss you! :-( Email me, we must set a time to meet at Pemberley! :-)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (17:09)", "body": "Hooray!!! Book arrived today. Now a crash read before Saturday...."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (22:39)", "body": "Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! Go Kate! ;-)"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (23:16)", "body": "As an ignorant newcomer, I am tempted to rush out an order a copy of the book too. But having read Emma Tennant's \"An unequal Marriage - P&P continued\", which I found totally repulsive, can anyone advise if Darcy's Story would fare better to an ardent admirer of JA's P&P ???"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (00:29)", "body": "Serena: can anyone advise if Darcy's Story would fare better to an ardent admirer of JA's P&P ??? You may just want to wait til the discussion begins here on Saturday and see if the reviews are favorable or not. :-)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (00:37)", "body": "Cheryl is also organising a book swap. People who have a copy might be able to mail you a copy, then you can pass it on when you are done."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (07:17)", "body": "I just finished it last night. :-)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (11:28)", "body": "Finished!!!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (12:37)", "body": "Finished my second (slower) reading yesterday, thanks to Tracey's loan. I'm afraid I won't be in the discussion until Monday (computer access only at work, don't you know), but this will not, as usual, prevent me from adding my tuppence worth."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (13:32)", "body": "I, too only have access at work, but I'm looking very forward to Monday!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "One of these days, we have to figure out how to make this system -- or another -- send posts by email. There are ways."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (15:10)", "body": "Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! Yea Kate! ;-)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "Cheryl, not that you've revealed your MASTER PLAN, I have to admit it IS brilliant in its simplicity! And here I thought we'd all have to meet on a dark corner somewhere in Bath, wearinng muslin dresses and a carnation!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (16:53)", "body": "Now, let me see....we are supposed to discuss it first, then read it. Right?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:02)", "body": "What shall I do? Oh, what shall I do? Mine's in transit, I hope! Torn between wanting to know right away when you guys start your discussion, and wanting to read the book first before being influenced by your excellent opinions. What to do, oh, what to do! (I'm in a rabbit stew)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (08:03)", "body": "Amy, would it be a good idea to do a separate thread for the DS discussion on textual errors, inconsistencies, mistakes etc (so we could just make a great big list of them all) and leave the main thread for discussion about the substantive merits of the book? Oh, and BYW, it might be an idea (what do other people think?) to copy and send our comments to Copperfield Books? The author might be interested in what a group of Austen addicts (who aren't academic purists) think of her book? But then again, maybe we should wait and see what we say...."}, {"response": 24, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (08:04)", "body": "BTW, that should be BTW not BYW"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (08:07)", "body": "Good idea on the seperate topic, Kate. It would distract. Janet does come here once in a while."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "Amy2, RE#20; and the lace, my dear :)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "Amy do you mean janet the author Janet?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (14:36)", "body": "] Amy do you mean janet the author Janet? ___ Yes. According to the user list she hasn't stopped by for about a month, though."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (17:56)", "body": "Serena, I've read Emma Tennat's first P&P sequel; it is amazing to me that someone allowed her to write one let alone two but I'll not start raving yet. Having said all that, I think you will enjoy Darcy's Story. I can lend my copy to you, if you like."}, {"response": 30, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:23)", "body": "I think we should let Janet A. make the choice if she wants to read our comments or not. I speak feelingly as a fellow writer. . ."}, {"response": 31, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (21:25)", "body": "But should we let her know that we're doing it?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (08:57)", "body": "About Janet Aylmer's involvement,, I think that many people would feel uncomfortable about expressing their feelings if they knew that she would be following the discussion. People should feel free to weigh in with negative comments if they wish; there's not much point in discussing the book if all we say is \"liked it\" and \"thank you.\" Of course there's no way of preventing Janet from reading the posts and we wouldn't want to anyway, but while we're \"talking\" I think we should feel free to be as uninhi ited as usual. ;-)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (09:25)", "body": "I agree with Anne, being an author you should already be prepared for some criticism. It would be unnatural if she wasn't. If you liked the book great and if you didn't it should be why. Personally, sequels are never as good as the original. I have not read Darcy's story and really have no inclination to. I can imagine what continued after the last page in the book. By all means we have the Constitution of the United States that clearly states that we have the Freedom of Press and Freedom of Speech. So go to it gals and no holds barred."}, {"response": 34, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (10:34)", "body": "I don't mean to censor our discussion! I just think that before sending off a list of our comments to Janet, we should ask her whether she wants to receive them or not. I know that Harlan Ellison, the great sf short story writer, DOES NOT want to see comments on his work posted to his topic on GEnie, and that's certainly his perogative."}, {"response": 35, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (11:31)", "body": "I would very much prefer Janet Aylmer deciding for herself to read our comments. We may have the pleasure of expressing what we think but let's not force it upon her. She knows that we are reading it and am sure she'll make the connection as to some comments might follow as well. Freedom of speach is precious but let's keep it under good regulation shall we?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (12:09)", "body": "Amy2: I just think that before sending off a list of our comments to Janet, we should ask her whether she wants to receive them or not. Amy, I don't believe there is any reason or need for us to send off our unsolicited comments to the author. She is registered for Spring, if she wishes to read our comments, she may without having them forced upon her. Sounds like it will be an interesting discussion tomorrow...looking forward to it! ;-)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Anne", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (21:53)", "body": "Help!!! I have been frantically searching bookstores for Darcy's Story, but no luck. Most of them haven't even heard of it! Stupid people! I am probably asking a question that's been asked and answered a billion times before but is there any bookstore that I can just pick the book up at or is it all mail order from internet? I would appreciate any info. even though I won't make it in time for the discussion."}, {"response": 38, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (22:08)", "body": "Amy/Cheryl Are we going to have a separate thread for typos, mistakes, inconsistencies with P&P and with itself etc? I didn't want to go ahead and do this without the approval of the supervisors.... ;-)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (00:03)", "body": "Anne, try JABooks@aol.com. No, you won't find it generally available. You are in the US?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (14:27)", "body": "Anne, re your #37 post - I received one from Waterstone's in Boston yesterday. In the mean time I had ordered one from the Jane Austin Bookstore in Chicago. They do have it in stock and are mailing it to me Monday. If you want me to get it and forward it to you I will. If I don't hear from you or see a posting regarding this by Sunday nite I am calling Monday a.m. and cancelling it. You may e-mail me at Pandora620@AOL."}, {"response": 41, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (14:44)", "body": "I will just say that all in all I thought Darcy's Story was a nice read. It was not any better than what our Derbyshire Writers' Guild has created, although it was certainly more complete. I would have liked more conversation between Darcy and his friends/relations during incidences not mentioned in P&P. But I thought most of it seemed to remain in character."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "Anne, re your #37 and my #40 post, I didn't give you full e-mail address: Pandora620@AOL.com."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (17:51)", "body": "Karen.. (of Resp. 29), you are sincerely, all generosity.. But I fear I live on the other side of the world from you.. I suspect I'll be purchasing a copy of Darcy's story from JABooks store. I didn't read 'Pemberbely' but accidentially found An unequal marriage while on holidays in Australia - thought it would be great airplane-reading, but it left a foul taste in the mouth. I had to read P&P again after that to satisfy myself. .I cannot even bring myself to shelve the book with my JA's collection - it seems unappropriate. Thank you again. ."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (18:01)", "body": "I agree with Kathleen. \"Darcy's Story\" is a very pleasant, quick read and does stay true to the original P&P, with only very few added scenes. On my second time through, though, I wasn't as enthralled as the first time; somehow our slew of writers at Pemberley Writers Guild, taken together, give a more complete picture of Darcy than does this book. I liked the touch of Darcy's second private talk with Mr. Bennet, after the latter knew of Darcy's part in the Lydia-Wickham affair. I especially like Darcy's lines: \"And without her beside me, there can be no happiness for me in the future. So let there be no more talk of repayment, I beg of you. your consent to our marriage is more than enough compensation for me.\" I also liked the added trip to London before the wedding. The more I think about it, I like it very well, I like it very well indeed!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (19:47)", "body": "Generally, I liked it very much, as well. That trash peddled by Emma Tennant-this is not! In particular, I liked the way she began the book, highlighting Darcy's shyness and lonliness, and sincere desire to duplicate the happy marriage of his parents. I also liked the expanded role of Georgiana as Darcy's confidant. She sees through Caroline Bingley long before he does. I liked the way she described Darcy's thoughts on his way to London: \"What irony of fate was it that Wickham seemed to continue to have t e power to injure him in those matters most dear to his heart. Also, I enjoyed the scene at the Gardiners when the eldest daughter asks Darcy if he likes Elizabeth: \"She is someone on whom I know I can always rely.\" One thing I did have a problem with, though, was her over-reliance on JA. Obviously, the allusions are welcome and necessary, but some pages read like direct quotes, and others could have been better incorporated. Darcy's reaction upon learning of Mr Collin's proposal(\"it does not bear thinking about\") also struck me as kind of awkward and contrived, even forced."}, {"response": 46, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (20:01)", "body": "] Darcy's reaction upon learning of Mr Collin's proposal(\"it does not bear thinking about\") also struck me as kind of awkward and contrived, even forced. Cassandra -- I agree. This seemed the most awkward of the additions to me. Plus, I have trouble believing Mr Bennet would have shared such news (Mrs Bennet, maybe, but not Mr Bennet). And Darcy's reaction was too much, since there was never any chance of Elizabeth marrying Mr Collins."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Opus1", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (20:33)", "body": "I haven't had a chance to read the book, having received it yesterday, but did want to tell anyone who is searching that I ordered the book from Waterstone's in Boston on Wednesday evening and it was on my doorstep in Virginia on Friday. The charge was $12 + $4.11 S&H. Their number is 617/859-7300. I hope that the book is as good as their delivery service."}, {"response": 48, "author": "Karen", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "Overall I liked Darcy Story; I liked it more the second time around (the Guild has spoiled me exceedingly). I agree with Cassandra, Kathleen and Inko's comments regarding the positives of the book such as the better understanding of Darcy's shyness and Georgiana's expanded role. I also would have like to have seen more dialog with Darcy's and friends. The conversation with Lady C. was very amusing."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "I'll put this info on here one more time. If I do not receive a request by tonight I'll call Monday a.m. and have book cancelled. I received a copy of Darcy's Story from Waterstones in Boston and just before I did I put in an order to Jane Austen books in Chicago. They have it and are mailing it to me this coming week. If anyone wants me to get it and forward it to them e-mail me at Pandora620@AOL.com or failing to be able to e-mail me, put a post on today. I am unable to to e-mail a lot of places off AOL, so put name and address. I did enjoy it and, no - it was not another Tennant badie. Ann, I think you were the one who wanted it badly."}, {"response": 50, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (13:16)", "body": "Again, what I liked the best was the begining. I like the way she described Darcy's transformation from this proud, completely in control person to this ardent, romantic would-be suitor, overwhelmed by his passion for Miss Elizabeth Bennet. Notably: \"Before he knew what he had done, Darcy had written a swift note to his cousin Fitzwilliam.\" \"Despite himself, and contrary to any intention of which he was consciously aware, after another half hour he found himself ringing the bell at the parsonage......but nything was better than not being in her presence.\" I loved thoses passages, cetainly in keeping with my impressions of Mr Darcy! I also noticed how her many descriptions of Darcy's long, lingering looks had CF written all over them! What I didn't enjoy as much were the later passages, after the second proposal. Without JA to rely on, Ms Aylmer's imagination seemed to have been stifled. I didn't like the Collins addition and the others seemed abrupt, unimaginative, and awkward. We expect more from Darcy and Elizabeth. I particularly thought the scene in Lady Catherine's room, when Darcy tells Lizzy the room is hers, was disapointing. It was over before it began."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "Cass, I agree with you about some of the later scenes, but I still do like the second talk with Mr. Bennet, re: repayment for Lydia/Wickham expense. I like the idea of them going to London, but agree with you (and Lizzie) that her father (and Aylmer) should not have mentioned Collins' proposal - and I don't think Mr. Bennet would have mentioned it. The last two chapters are very abrupt, I agree. My whole trouble is that I have now read Darcy's Story twice, and our own fan fiction countless times so that I'm completely muddled as to who wrote what!!!;-)"}, {"response": 52, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (16:42)", "body": "I too liked the book on the whole. I liked Aylmer's faithfulness to Austen and to the period. But I have to agree that much of what's posted at our Derbyshire's Writer's Guild is superior, because it seems to me that those stories give more of an insight into Darcy's inner turmoil and feelings. Since DARCY'S STORY is written from _his_ P.O.V., I thought he shouldn't have remained as much of an enigma as he did in P&P. But I really liked the choice of making Georgiana Darcy's confidante -- this seems he e choice. I also enjoyed the scene where Darcy gets to experience Lady C's \"abuse\" of Elizabeth & account of their \"chat\" at Longbourne firsthand. I agree that I would have liked to see more original material, and less Austen. We are probably a more jaded group than the average readership, because we are so incredibly familiar with the text, and having to re-read it within the context of a new book gets a bit tedious."}, {"response": 53, "author": "maud", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (17:08)", "body": "I now find myself with 2 copies of Darcy's Story. Anyone who nees one can e-mail me at arab@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us. Let me know, Maud"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (09:00)", "body": "I, too, enjoyed the book. Her characterizations are usually right in line with my impressions. I think that we have had so many excellent stories here that contain so much imagination and passion, that we have come to expect a great deal of both. I noticed a bit of Davies' influence. One example which takes place at the Lambton Inn, \"Without realising what he did, Darcy took the nearest chair and, leaning forward, took her hand in his.\" JA allows no touching on this occation. I was a little ambivalent about Georgiana becoming his confidante, at first. But on subsequent readings, it seemed more natural. One thing that I noticed, Aylmer does not have Darcy considering Bingley as a match for Georgiana as JA does in Chapter 45. \"Not a syllable had ever reached her of Miss Darcy's meditated elopement. To no creature had it been revealed, where secrecy was possible, except to Elizabeth; and from Bingley's connections her brother was particularly anxious to conceal it from that very wish which Elizabeth had long ago attributed to him, of their becoming hereafter her own. He had certainly formed such a plan, and without meaning that it should affect his endeavour to separate him from Miss Bennet, it is probable that it might ad something to his lively concern for the welfare of his friend. All in all, I think that Janet Aylmer did a very good job and stayed very true to the book. I enjoyed Darcy's story very much. Linda"}, {"response": 55, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "Can anyone give me the ISBN for this book? I haven't been able to find it either. I'd like to try to get it on interlibrary loan and read it before I buy it. Now that so many people have said it is good, I'd really like to read it. And now I know that perhaps I shouldn't buy the Tenant books!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "]And now I know that perhaps I shouldn't buy the Tenant books! Indeed you should NOT! I found Darcy's Story to be a quick, enjoyable read. I seem to agree with what has been said so far: Liked Georgiana being a confidant, the nice additional scenes (I would have like to some originality when Darcy finds Wickham/Lydia--not just quoting from JA), etc. Disliked the overreliance on JA, the Collins engagemnt bit (specially as I think Darcy probably heard the gossip re:Mr. C's intentions at the N'Field ball). On the whole though, I did like it alot."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:42)", "body": "Lynn, You may want to try Jane Austen Books, that's where I got mine. I sent them an e-mail request and they sent the book to my house with an invoice for $14.00. Jane Austen Books 860 N. Lake Shore Dr., Ste. 21-J Chicago, IL 60611-1751 (312) 266-0080 fax (312) 266-0081 JABooks@ail.com ISBN 0-9528210-2-8 Good luck. Linda"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (02:31)", "body": "Maud, do you still have that 2nd copy? I could buy it off you instead of ordering from the store."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (07:44)", "body": "#57 I proof-read the ISBN before posting, but not the email address; aol not ail, of course. JABooks@aol.com. Hope this didn't cause a problem for anyone."}, {"response": 60, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (10:51)", "body": "Here's a place that has it as well online: http://www.bookshop.co.uk/ This is the Internet Book Store online -- they're based in England & delivered my copy inside of 2 weeks."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (12:58)", "body": "I have finished reading the copy that Tracey loaned me, and I can forward it to anyone who wishes to borrow it, rather than return it to Tracey first. Just send me an e-amil with your address (to mari.topitzes@mfa.com). I will CC Tracey with the info on where her book has gone so that she can keep tabs. Since she picked up the postage for sending it to me, I'll do the same for you, and so on down the line."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Dina", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (14:52)", "body": "I agree with most all that's been said, so at the risk of sounding redundant.... I would have liked JA to have been a little more daring and not relyed so much on the Austen dialogue. I actually liked the second half better than the first. I also think Mr. Bennett would have told something he shouldn't. Didn't he like to \"inflict pain before the pleasure\" . I can see him saying it for the reaction and to see how everyone else in the house would be upset by it. I am a big fan (as I have stated in other lines before) of eavesdropping on LC telling Darcy about her chat with Lizzie nd wanting to see him practically run all the way back the Meryton. Isn't someone in the Guild working on this? Hurry, Hurry!!!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:03)", "body": "Well, I have received my copy (from the Internet Bookstore) and I believe I share the opinions expressed here. I think some of my disappoint may stem from the anticipation of receiving and reading the book. After becoming throughly enraptured with P & P, I wanted this story to be equal. Oh well, it's Friday night, so I will have my weekly date with Lizzy and Mr. Darcy et al."}, {"response": 64, "author": "fitz", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (09:35)", "body": "Amy I at last have had a chance to drop in. Any comments on Darcy's Story are welcome - good or bad ! I would have liked to include a bit more detail in some of the areas mentioned, but the physical limit for the book was 240 pages because of the printing cost, including the pages at the beginning and end, so ... !!! Jane Austen Books in Chicago have apparently ordered more copies from Copperfield Books - now I know where some of them are going. Also the Book is No. 2 in the top 100 sold by the Interent Bookshop over the past month, and has been for some weeks. Everyone has their own view on Darcy's side of P&P - I am intereste dto know all of yours. Best Wishes to everyone from Janet Aylmer."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (12:56)", "body": "Thanks for stopping by, Janet. I would be interested to hear of the source for those book sales figures. If we are that much of a force, I'd like to be able to prove it. So you've read some of the fanfic by our number? What do you think?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "maud", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (15:32)", "body": "Serena, sorry--I only just read your post. I've been out of touch lately as I started a new job. Anyway, my remaining copy is out on loan. I think I'll keep it and just loan it out. So on that basis if you're still interested when I get it back you're welcome to borrow it."}, {"response": 67, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (19:47)", "body": "[Also the Book is No. 2 in the top 100 sold by the Interent Bookshop over the past month, and has been for some weeks] Congradulations, Janet."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (03:22)", "body": "Isn't that flattering, Amy, having Janet Alymer checking into this conference? Maud, thanks for the reply, would love to read the book, Think I'll try again with JA Books (they never confirmed my order, 2 weeks ago) since I would like to have a copy in my collection."}, {"response": 69, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "Janet is a very brave woman, IMHO! Kudos for her stopping by. That really is something about the Internet Book Sales #, because that's a pretty darned big online supplier of books. I wonder to what extent WE'RE responsible. . ."}, {"response": 70, "author": "jajones", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "A latecomer joining in. I think it would be interesting to know Colin Firth's take on the events in Darcy's life. As an skilled actor preparing for the role, he no doubt re-created -- in his mind or perhaps even on paper -- many of the experiences not found in the book. I wonder if his view would decidedly different from DARCY'S STORY?"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (17:34)", "body": "Jacque, yes it would, and certain members of this esteemed group would give buckets of their own blood to get their hands on these reflections! (Cheryl, see you at the blood bank...)"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (19:54)", "body": "There are a few hints of what CF thought about Darcy in \"The Making of P&P\" in his interview. He said \"For example, in that first assembly-room scene I have to go in and be hurt, angry, intimidated, annoyed, irritated, amused, horrified, appalled, and keep all these reactions within this very narrow framework of being inscrutable because nobody ever knows quite what Darcy's thinking.\" There's a lot more of that kind of thing in the book - rather insightful, actually."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (22:55)", "body": "I love the Colin Firth interview in The Making of P&P. I learned more from that interview about what motivated Darcy than I did in all of Darcy's Story I'm afraid..."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:13)", "body": "Inko, sounds like you just 'sold' another book to me. Poor CF, Darcy is so complex in emotions, it must have been difficult to portray, and he did a wonderful job. But this is not drool.. so, off I go now with 3 books to get from the bookstore."}, {"response": 75, "author": "jajones", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (12:08)", "body": "My copy of The Making of P&P is on order so I haven't gotten to explore that yet. I am looking forward to it. Thanks for the direction."}, {"response": 76, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "]I learned more from that interview about what motivated Darcy than I did in all of Darcy's Story I'm afraid... Me too. Darcy's Story to me just seemed to domesticate Darcy too much - somehow it seemed a little mundane?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "summit", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (20:55)", "body": "Darcy should remain the half-tamed stallion that he is that so lures our (still) girlish hearts, even in sequels, hmmm? [A friend of mine once commented on how \"like a wild thing\" young Timothy Dalton looked in his film version of Wuthering Heights , too...]"}, {"response": 78, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (08:37)", "body": "Kate, I agree with you. Some of the appeal of Darcy is the mystery surrounding him. He did become mundane, indeed."}, {"response": 79, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "I'm glad I'm not the only person who had this reaction"}, {"response": 80, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "Alas, count me among your number. Maybe Austen left the mystery around Darcy in in P&P for a reason. . ."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (12:30)", "body": "Amy2: Maybe Austen left the mystery around Darcy in in P&P for a reason. . . Correct me if I'm wrong here, but weren't you the one, Amy, who said we all had to read this book...? ;-)"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:29)", "body": "Usually everyone here is on top of what is very good and just OK. Next time I will get more information. The fact is that it might be unavailable and then I would regret not buying it."}, {"response": 83, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "You're correct, Cheryl...I was remembering the very post..."}, {"response": 84, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (17:09)", "body": "I have wound up with 2 copies of Darcy's Story. If anyone wants one e-mail me at Pandora620@AOL.com."}, {"response": 85, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "Well, I'm _kind of_ guilty. Someone else started this topic, and in a wild rush of enthusiasm, I joined right in! I DO like the book -- don't get me wrong -- but I also think there's something exciting about Darcy remaining a cipher, as he does in P&P. I'm loving the fiction in the Derbyshire Writer's Guild, though, which fully flushes out Darcy. So call me contradictory, I guess!"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (20:14)", "body": "Amy2 are you around now? Do you know much about video production? I have a question. Meet me in the drawing room?"}, {"response": 87, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (03:06)", "body": ""}, {"response": 88, "author": "summit", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (08:33)", "body": "...loving the fiction in the Derbyshire Writer's Guild, though, which fully flushes out Darcy... I like that \"flushes out Darcy\" - sounds like either a) a hunting dog flushinig a pheasant or duck out of hiding, or b) (god forbid) flushing him out of our system, so to speak, or c) maybe the fiction is \"fleshing out\" the cryptic portrayal of Darcy by Austen. ;-) Someone in Drool fan fiction referred to a boots-on version of Darcy and Lizzy's honeymoon (I've done it, ladies, but it's X, not R, so the net nannies would faint at Spring if posted!)"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "Wendy, dearest, you do have my email address? ;-)"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:13)", "body": "Wendy, I hope you also have my email address!;-) And I can assure you, I don't have to be \"carded\" anymore!;-)"}, {"response": 91, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:26)", "body": "Me too please... ;-)"}, {"response": 92, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (19:19)", "body": "Please include me on your list as well Wendy."}, {"response": 93, "author": "jtlong", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:42)", "body": "Let me, a newcomer, respond to Darcy's Story. No one writes like JA, but this is better than most continuations in my estimation. It offers other angles that the mind can try on for size. I am a life member of JASNA and will be(hold your breaths) going with the JASNA group on tour to England in June for 11 days. We'll see some movie and Janes life sites, including a never before tour of Godmersham . So , you see even a devoted Janite can and did enjoy a detour into extended fiction! Jean"}, {"response": 94, "author": "jtlong", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:46)", "body": "Let me add that I sent to England for my copy and had it in just over a week, for 15 bucks, too. Plus a dear letter from the publishers. Why do the english have such a charming way with words, how did we Americans lose that?"}, {"response": 95, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (21:04)", "body": "Glad to see you here, Jean."}, {"response": 96, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (08:34)", "body": "Wendy, Please add me to the list of people you are emailing."}, {"response": 97, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:06)", "body": "Wendy, please add me as well. I am panting in anticipation!"}, {"response": 98, "author": "maud", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (18:44)", "body": "Wendy, me too, please! The e-mail I sent you a while back is still the one to use. Let me know if you need it again."}, {"response": 99, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "Wendy, \"flushing out a character\" is Hollywoodspeak for uh. . . flushing out a character. Making it fuller. So...is that \"X' version ever going to be made available to the more lavicious of us online? Cheryl, help me out here!"}, {"response": 100, "author": "summit", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (22:42)", "body": "Amy2: \"lavicious\"?? Quite a freudian slippism, doubtless, for \"la [the] vicious female writer who dares to be lascivious?\"\" ;-) I've a few ways & means I'm considering...a spiral booklet with the romantic and daggy versions available, so readers can decide which they prefer and discard the other (for you over 21[18?] readers)...a one-time web page which will self-destruct in 24 hours after reader's done...sequential emailing segments alla cliffhanger serials ... Shall let you know after decision made...but in all honesty, I cannot say it will be any match for/better than the superb fiction already here from all P&P addict-authors n residence!"}, {"response": 101, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "]will self-destruct in 24 hours after reader's done...Ok \"Mission Impossible\" Wendy"}, {"response": 102, "author": "summit", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (19:09)", "body": "\"Attagirl\" Donna! LOL: I was thinking of a sort of Trekkie phenomenon, where you look out over the com (-puter window) into virtual space, trying to sneak a second read of the daggy version romance, when vooooom! it dissolves before your glazed gaze can quite finish that last..."}, {"response": 103, "author": "summit", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "P.S. sort of a MACBETH parody: \"Is it a daggy that I see before me?\""}, {"response": 104, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "Wendy -- ROTFLOL! (I don't think I want to hear the next line. ;-))"}, {"response": 105, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "\"X-rating turned toward my heart. Come, let me clutch thee!\" Wendy, give me a break. When I made that typo, I had just returned from a 13-hour day at Disneyland. More crowded than I've ever seen it in over 35 years. No joke."}, {"response": 106, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (19:10)", "body": "I agree with those who like the mystery surrounding Darcy. I guess that's why I am of two minds about reading Darcy's story. Does anyone have a copy they'd be willing to let me borrow? I tried to get it on interlibrary loan, but the only two libraries in the country that owned it charged!! At any rate, it someone would let me borrow a copy, I'd be grateful!! E-mail me at lynn@xtdl.com. I must say, I have finally gotten around to reading the fan fiction and have really enjoyed it, and now shall have o check out the Derbyshire Writers' Guild. What talent there is here!!"}, {"response": 107, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (21:12)", "body": "Lynn, Fan fiction and the Derbyshire Writers Guild are basically the same thing (though if you are new here, there will be lots of stuff you haven't seen in the current Fan Fic topic)."}, {"response": 108, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (10:58)", "body": "Ann: How does it work? Are stories first posted to the Fan Fiction topic, then archived to the Writer's Guild?"}, {"response": 109, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (12:46)", "body": "\"Are stories first posted to the Fan Fiction topic, then archived to the Writer's Guild?\" Exactly so."}, {"response": 110, "author": "EZFan", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (15:17)", "body": "I've finished the copy of Darcy's Story lent to me (Tracey owns it, Mari graciously sent it on). Would anyone like to borrow it next? Lynn? Email me at EZFan@aol.com. I have to admit that I read it in almost one sitting, but that said, I don't think it's great. The text seemes very flat - came to life in several places, mostly quoted here, in which Darcy speaks. Perhaps I'm expecting too much from a sequel, but I keep reading them. I've read some Tennant (awful), Barrett (even worse), Aiken (OK, I gu ss). The sequels/related books that have given pleasure are 1) A Visit to Highbury by Joan Austen-Leigh (Emma from another point of view. Letters between Mrs. Goddard and her sister - who suffers herself from some of Emma's faults). 2) The Stephanie Barron Jane mysteries. They are heavy handed, but fun to imagine. 3) Fay Weldon's Letters to Alice on first reading Jane Austen."}, {"response": 111, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (20:39)", "body": "Susan, thanks for the offer, but Johanne has already e-mailed me, and will be lending me a copy. I stayed up way too late last night reading the stuff at DWG. I had read everything at Fan Fiction and wanted to go back and read the beginnings. I've been here since January, but I haven't had time to read everything yet, so I always feel like I'm playing catch-up. Looking forward to reading the book."}, {"response": 112, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (07:07)", "body": "Lynn, I enjoyed Darcy's Story, but I think that reading all this group's Fan Fiction will spoil you for Janet Aylmer's story. Do not expect too much imagination nor any passion. But, I hope that you will ejoy it anyway."}, {"response": 113, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (08:58)", "body": "Linda, I completely agree with you. Reading Darcy's Story did not give me any more insites than what has been written in FanFiction. And I enjoy reading that much more."}, {"response": 114, "author": "Vivsy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:16)", "body": "Wendy please add me to your email list. Have loved all the fiction that I have read. I just got Darcy's Story yesterday and spent all night reading. I enjoyed it, but I think the fan fiction is just as good!!!"}, {"response": 115, "author": "LaDemoiselle", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:58)", "body": "Wendy, put me on the email list too. I can say I have liked the fan fiction. I read Darcy's Story about a month ago (I was shocked to have found that I read it all in the same day), and even for its oopses, I still enjoyed it. True...I have to agree with a lot of other people saying that he loses some of that P&P mystery that excites us, but I still liked it a lot. I also read Dorothy Alice Bonavia-Hunt's pastiche, called Pemberley Shades: A Novel (It's out of print now and hard to trace, bu I found at the public library). It actually is not bad at all, worth reading too. It is nothing like the infamous Tennant I have heard so much about (I heard she was bad, so I think I won't bother with her books)."}, {"response": 116, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (21:01)", "body": "CF, In Another Country (not Darcy, but that look is so...) Ladies, I thought we lacked visuals here, so..."}, {"response": 117, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "try this: http://www.grin.net/~meluchie/firthlist/judd3.jpg"}, {"response": 118, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:39)", "body": ""}, {"response": 119, "author": "Becks", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (23:06)", "body": "Whoa, big hair! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 163, "subject": "What movies have you been seeing?", "response_count": 102, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (17:08)", "body": "I rented Total Eclipse last night, a biographical account of one part of Arthur Rimbaud's life. I don't know if I will see it again for another 10 years, but I am pretty sure I am glad I've seen it once. http://us.imdb.com/M/title-exact?Total%20Eclipse%20%281995%29"}, {"response": 2, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (17:16)", "body": "Amy, you've been busy here all the while I've been viewing this conference. Now I know why things kept changing. :-) Now, I have recently seen, Persuasion (again), Shine , Romeo + Juliet and GP and JN's Emma . :-)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (20:46)", "body": "I just got home from seeing Shine and liked it very much. Some wonderful performances there and fabulous music. I loved the whole Rach 3 sequence, starting from when he was working on it with his teacher (great job here by John Gielgud) and the concert itself was amazing! But I must disagree with my friend (and little brother) Ian and say that Geoffrey Rush does not deserve the Oscar. It was a good performance but he was only in half of the movie! Now if they could split it between him and Noah Taylor (the adolescent David) I might go for it. ;-) But that will never happen, so I continue to believe that Ralph Feinnes (*sigh*) will win the Oscar."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (04:30)", "body": "What have I seen lately---hmmmmm All of the Oscar contenders, except for Breaking the Waves. Portrait of a Lady, Hamlet, Everyone Says I Love You. I really loved Hamlet and Everyone....Both really entertaining, and worth the money."}, {"response": 5, "author": "winter", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "i've been on a HUGE movie-kick this past week; seeing films for the second time, renting a film though i'd seen it twice before... trainspotting (rented) life is sweet (rented; seen it twice before) the english patient (my 2nd viewing) secrets & lies (my 2nd viewing) hamlet (that's this afternoon--my first time) and of course...P&P2 gets popped into the VCR (i watch it as i fall asleep occasionally)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Luba", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (15:52)", "body": "Hi, Luisa here.Back again! Recently I saw films I don`t think I will forget that soon. Breaking the Waves is one of the most moving and interesting love stories I have seen in years. Well, apart from ours truly P&P2...Very different altogether. This one was about immortal and all-consuming love with a huge tenderness and spiritualtity. Loved it! I also saw Secrets and Lies. Made me laugh, cringe with embarassment and gasp. Well the normal stuff that makes a movie exciting, I guess. Brenda Blethyn is very, very good. Shine was wonderful and I have to agree that the younger, adolescent actor deserved some recognition for his touching portrayal. Geoffrey Rush was good, but the movie is not all about him. The Mirror has two faces is one movie I would advise as a great comedy about love and hazzard. Left me in a jolly great mood. :-)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (06:46)", "body": "I just saw \"Fools Rush In\" this weekend. I really like it. Matthew Perry & Selma Hayek have a good chemistry together. And it was very funny. Star Wars--special edition--Still great after all these years and the new special effects just enhance the story, and don't distract from it."}, {"response": 8, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (11:25)", "body": "Instantly forgettable: VACATION IN VEGAS. Save your money! I highly recommend: THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD with Rene Zellwegger & Vince D'Onofrio. Awesome! A powerful romance that is the story of Robert E. Howard, the man who created CONAN. Saw SHINE this weekend. Was not blown away. The lesson: playing piano drives you to madness?? (Cheryl?)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (12:17)", "body": "Amy2: Saw SHINE this weekend. Was not blown away. The lesson: playing piano drives you to madness?? (Cheryl?) Now, now Amy, this is the conclusion you came to from seeing the film? ;-) Replace \"playing piano\" to \"living with a controlling, manipulative father\" and I'll agree with you! For the record: Learning to play the piano does not drive one to insanity. There, I feel better having defended my beloved piano."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (17:22)", "body": "\"living with a controlling, manipulative father\" Good for you Cheryl. That's what I got out of \"Shine\" too, it was the father not the piano playing that did the harm. Still liked the movie, though, even though the father was such a monster, albeit a believable one considering everything he'd been through."}, {"response": 11, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "I just saw Primal Fear which was excellent, I think Edward Norton deserves the oscar for Supporting Actor. A Time to Kill, Matthew McConaughey (gorgeous) and I just saw Trainspotting, Ewan McGregor is to die for, drop-deap gorgeous, the best scottish actor of his age group. Oh and I just saw A very Brady Sequel."}, {"response": 12, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "I am of course being facetious. But you have to admit that having young David actually HIT THE FLOOR after playing the Rach III kind of conveys the impression that this piece can drive you to madness. I saw the film with my sister & brother-in-law, two accomplished pianists, and they agreed. I didn't like the \"Hollywood\" version of having David go mad right at the pivotal moment. If this actually happened in real life, I will eat Cheryl's Steinway!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "I saw Shine and Sling Blade recently. Well written, well acted but very hard to sit through. Just kept shaking my head. Boy, have I had an easy life. The Whole Wide World is also very good. Take a hanky. Looking for time to go see Hamlet Got to see some good stuff at the Sundance Film Festival (aka: The Wear Black and Use Your Cellular Film Festival). Best of show: House of Yes I think Miramax bought it so look for it this Summer."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (17:05)", "body": "Amy2: If this actually happened in real life, I will eat Cheryl's Steinway! According to my Australian source, Ian, and every newspaper article printed in the country about the movie that he has read, it is TRUE!!! Amy, I do not happen to own a Steinway at the moment, but I do have a fine Yamaha. While I shall mourn its loss, it may be worth it to see you eat it...would you like some catsup or perhaps a fine dijon to accompany it? ;-)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (19:08)", "body": "Oh, Cheryl & Amy2 -- please do not start this fine repast until we can all be present to watch. And what wine goes best with a Yamaha piano, pray tell? :P"}, {"response": 16, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "maybe saki instead of wine"}, {"response": 17, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (20:42)", "body": "and teriyaki sauce ;)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (22:46)", "body": "Served over some nice white steamed rice."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (01:06)", "body": "hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee ;-)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (15:16)", "body": "Everyone says I love you, HAmlet(why didn't KB get nominated???), the Crucible, Evita, and Portrait of a LAdy. I also should confess that my friend(she's a major TIm Dalton fan-he's her one and only JAmes Bond) dragged me kicking and screaming to the Beautician and the Beast. If you're ever suffering from insomnia, watch/rent that one! What happened to Dalton-Scarlett was bad enough, but this one? A few weeks ago, Wuthering Heights was on TV and he was so wonderful in that-dark, brooding... Oh and if there is any justice in the world, Ralph Fiennes will win the Oscar for the English Patient. Besides EMMA2 and my first viewing of Casablanca, seeing TEP was the only time I ever cried in a movie theatre. The tissues were flying. The woman next to me could barely stand up after it was over. The cave scene-I will come back. I'll never leave you. oOOH BABY!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (22:51)", "body": "I'm sure you have all seen Barry Lyndon long ago but I rented it today. It is so great. Everything was so authenic from the Georgian period. I didn't remember that it was an Acadamy Award winner in 1975. Also heard Restoration was from the periods we are interested in. I don't know a thing about it. Anyone know anything about it? Will see The Madness of King George for the second time tomorrow."}, {"response": 22, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (23:19)", "body": "] Restoration Haven't seen it, but its from the 1670s (ie the Restoration of the British monarchy after the civil war), and about 140 years before our period."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (23:24)", "body": "I just got home from seeing The Empire Strikes Back. My whole family went, four die hard fans and my sister-in-law who has never seen these movies before! (too young, it seems...;-p) Well, afterwards she said \"Oh no! Darth Vader is Luke's father? And poor Han Solo! And who is \"the other?\" And now I have to wait three weeks to find out what happens next?\" I said, \"Oh honey! We had to wait two years!\" It's fun seeing these movies in the theater again, and Empire has always been my favorite of the three. I may have to go see it again! ;-)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "kate", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (08:32)", "body": "Cheryl I went on Saturday too. Every one went crazy when Yoda said \"No there is another\" In fact everyone went crazy every time some key line was said, or some key character appeared. (Han, R2D2 and Yoda got the biggest cheers) The best bit was just before Han was about to kiss Leia for the first time some guy yelled out \"DO IT Han!\" It brought the house down..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (12:37)", "body": "I saw Cold Comfort Farm this weekend. In the wake of Emma3, it was really interesting - there are quite a few parallels between KB's characters in these 2 films. And, The Madness of King George! Watched that for the first time 2 weeks ago, and was totally bowled over! It really should have won Best Picture when it was nominated; what beat it? Forrest Gump?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (17:34)", "body": "Forrest Gump also beat Shawshank Redemption which was clearly the best picture of that year. I was very depressed that oscar-night."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Becks", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (17:44)", "body": "I was so angry that S&S was beaten by Braveheart last year. ALthough it was a good film, S&S was much better."}, {"response": 28, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (00:21)", "body": "and Braveheart won for makeup, too \"let's see is that blue on the left and red on the right, or red on the left and blue on the right?\""}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (00:23)", "body": "But Braveheart was a fine movie."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (00:41)", "body": "Ann: Forrest Gump also beat Shawshank Redemption which was clearly the best picture of that year. I was very depressed that oscar-night. Ann, I felt the same way! Shawshank REdemption was a remarkable movie, riveting, very moving...definately the best movie of the year!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (08:44)", "body": "I stayed up 'till 2 am last Friday watching Shawshank Redemption on Flix and I agree - what a great film! By the way, have you ever read the Stephen King story it's based on, Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption? A really good piece of writing, and translated into film very well, just like his short story The Body, which became Stand By Me (love that movie!)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (09:32)", "body": "Stand By Me is wonderful."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (09:34)", "body": "Did anyone else find the Ken Burn's film on Jefferson a disapointment? It showed on most PBS stations last week. It didn't seem so compelling as Civil War or even Baseball and I love Jefferson. Maybe there are not enough colorful and knowledgable people to talk interview -- no Shelby Foote. Is Dumas Malone dead now? He is or was probably boring. Horrible generalization I know, I hope I am wrong."}, {"response": 34, "author": "maud", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (13:47)", "body": "Speaking of the Regency period I rented Princess Carabou last night. A wonderful story and strong cast, including Kevin Kline, Stephen Rea, Wendy Hughes and John Lithgow---I recommend it. Also Anna Chancellor is in it!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (14:31)", "body": "Is there anybody out there at all familiar with the work of Dennis Potter? 'The singing detective' and 'Pennies from Heaven' ? Now they(Swedish TV2) have sent 'Karaoke', a very fine and heart-tearing piece staring Albert Finney and in a smaller part Anna Chancellor; they are both very good. And it is now followed by the last film he wrote before he died, 'Cold Lazarus' about how the author from Karaoke has been frozen for hundreds of years and scientists in the future are getting into his memory. One scientist played by Ciaran Hinds !"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (16:25)", "body": "Those of us who are in the thralls of a new Star Wars addiction may enjoy this David Letterman, Top Ten signs that you are obsessing over Star Wars : 10. Your poodles are named \"C,\" \"3,\" \"P\" and \"O\" 9. You won't sleep with your wife unless she says, \"Help me, Obi Wan, you're my only hope\" 8. You spent $10,000 trying to Rogaine yourself into Chewbacca 7. You're continually stunned when the President makes major decisions without consulting Mark Hamill 6. Your favorite pickup line: \"Would you like to handle my light saber?\" 5. You keep referring to your lawn mower as \"that crazy droid\" 4. You spend most of your days trying to use \"the Force\" to open a can of pears 3. You once saw an eggplant that looked kind of like Darth Vader and almost had a heart attack 2. Your sex life is strictly \"Han Solo,\" if you know what I mean 1. You like Yoda so much, you voted for Ross Perot"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (23:56)", "body": "#33 Amy, I taped Burns's Jefferson, but haven't watched it yet. I'll let you know what I think when I do. TJ is by far my most favorite historical character. There's an excellent biography out on him by Fern something (can't remember her last name) -- it's huge, but reads like a novel. I recommend it highly. #36 Cheryl, those are great. Even though I've watched Star Wars enough that I don't need to see it again, I can still remember enough to appreciate the humor. Thanks for sharing!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (06:42)", "body": "#33 Amy, I watched Burn's Jefferson, and was disappointed also. Our local station was able air an interview with Ken Burns after the first episode. I do not know if it was available to other PBS stations. PS--I did get kind of choked up during the Tristam Shandy quote piece."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (06:56)", "body": "I liked hearing about his ideas for the university. I'd like to read more about that."}, {"response": 40, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (08:35)", "body": "I started to watch Jefferson, but I too found it extremely boring. I really do prefer A&E's Biography specials. Speaking of what we have been watching. Last nite on one of our PBS stations in Boston, they repeated Prime Suspect 3. And who was in it but Ciaran Hinds and Mark Strong. I personally liked MS in this, he is much balder as he has a very close haircut and well CH really did nothing for me. I have seen this series before but watching it again is great fun. Oh yeah, David Thewlis is also in his one and he totally reminds me of Rod Stewart."}, {"response": 41, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (15:53)", "body": "Speaking of the makeup in BRAVEHEART -- I didn't see the film, so can someone please explain to me why a Scotsman is wearing the blue makeup of A PICT? Thank you."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (16:07)", "body": "It is \"war paint\" Amy. It does have a lot of unexpected violence that I really didn't want to see."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (16:56)", "body": "Where would they have gotten the blue pigment? It is fairly rare in nature."}, {"response": 44, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (17:06)", "body": "From their local face paint store of course."}, {"response": 45, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (18:49)", "body": "Kate -- I believe you must be right! And most likely this store had a sale on blue face paint. :-)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (22:41)", "body": "indigo-(natural source-anil) a plant that yeilds blue dyestuff.:-)"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (11:10)", "body": "Ha anyone read why Hamlet received so little attention from the Oscar nominations? I thougt K. Branagh was a favorite of theirs."}, {"response": 48, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (12:22)", "body": "Elaine I have searched hi and lo looking for why it was snubbed. but to no avail. For anyone who has seen it, it is the most glorious adapations of a Shakespeare play. Filmed in Blenheim Castle and part of Denmark, it is visually stunning. Branagh just looks amazing. I would see this movie again and again and again and again and again. Wait until you see the costumes which did indeed get a nomination, they are so beautiful."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (13:04)", "body": "My husband and I are going to see it this Saturday night. I do have one slightly \"unelevated\" question, though: is there an intermission, or does the RFF (Rear fatigue factor) become an obstacle to enjoying the film?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (15:59)", "body": "at the 2:30 hour mark there is a 10 minute break, just enought time to use the ladies and gents and get a drink. I advise not to get a drink for the first half as you will probably have to use the loo during that time."}, {"response": 51, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:25)", "body": "I know that Picts used blue body makeup, but the Scots? This doesn't seem historically accurate to me. Anyone?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "Maybe the cold made them blue!! It's bitter up in the north! Just being facetious - don't know the answer!;-)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "I believe Russians used blue war paint as well."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (00:31)", "body": "Ha anyone read why Hamlet received so little attention from the Oscar nominations? I haven't seen Hamlet yet, but heard that Branagh was considered to have been hamming it up quite a bit and that it was WWWWAAAAAYYYYY too long."}, {"response": 55, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (10:36)", "body": "The industry was surprised at the snub to Branagh and HAMLET too. Don't know why they chose to totally overlook this -- maybe they found their Academy \"epic\" in THE ENGLISH PATIENT, and didnt' need to look any further. . ."}, {"response": 56, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (11:25)", "body": "A MAJOR oversight from the Academy, utterly vexing, this production is of epic proportion the like we haven't see in a very long time. Worth every minute and every penny. Riveting and many more superlatives..."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Dina", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "Claudia - A little late but.... Restoration is about an English physician (Robert \"Dope head\" Downey Jr.) who is asked to the Palace to help the King with some \"healing\", because it seems he has quite and knack is a dedicated Dr.. He is asked to stay and be the King's physician. He lives at the palace and becomes quite decadent. The King asks him to marry his mistress and they go live in Surrey off the Thames. He falls in love with her, but she loves only the King. The King finds out and our boy is banished. Thus, the beginning of his Restoration . Great costumes (last year an Oscar?) and sets. I saw Sling Blade this past week. I thought Shine was hard to sit through....The violence is not really seen and Dwight Yokam's character has a potty mouth, but Billy Bob Thornton's acting is incredible !!!! I think he deserves the Oscar (though sentimentally I want Ralph to win and realistically Jeffery Rush will win it). I say GO SEE IT!!!!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (19:30)", "body": "Dina and Kate, thanks so much for your comments on Restoration. Ann, re your #53 - are you into Russian History? Comment sounded like you were. Pre 1917 Russian history is my passion and has been for many years. Cheryl, your comments are always SO witty. Enjoy them and ROTFL. Forgot to say that Anthony Calf (our own dear Col. Fitzwilliam) was in Madness of King George. He was rather nondescript and sullen. Not at all agreeable as our Col. was."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (21:08)", "body": "No, I'm not into history, but I have a mind like a steel trap when it comes to trivia."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (17:28)", "body": "Ann2, I consider 'The Singing Detective' one of TV's finest programs. I only saw a little of \"Karaoke', but did catch 'Cold Lazarus' and thought it interesting and good. Did you ever see the interview with Dennis Potter shortly before he died? Now that was one of TV's finest interviews."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (09:01)", "body": "I'm glad Hilary to share this experience with one friend from Pemb! Interview with Dennis Potter no I have not heard anything about that but shall keep my eyes open as they have sent Karaoke recently and directly followed by \"Cold Lazarus\".You would have liked Karaoke, Hil.It was sad and funny and Albert Finney did this great love scene. Did you see that; in the hospital!? And did you not love when he said goodbye to his old agent friend:' I'll even cake tare '.?"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (20:49)", "body": "NO, I must have missed that part. What a pity. The interview was extraordinary apart from what he said with regard to his work, because it was basically en-edited: therefore long, rambly, and included him smoking like a train, asking for medication, talking about death approaching. Very unusual."}, {"response": 63, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (01:38)", "body": "Hil I taped this interview yesterday comming back from a journey and just happened to catch sight of it's being aired in the paper...Looking forward to it"}, {"response": 64, "author": "winter", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (01:38)", "body": "hi all... just came back from catching an evening feature of 'smilla's sense of snow.' it was pretty good-- nothing spectacular. gabriel byrne and julia ormond were cast appropriately, and you can see the chemistry definitely kicking in in some scenes. they've been going out in real life since then, and so there you have it. one thing that i wnated to share with you all was the trailer for 'paradise road', movie set during WWII. IT FEATURES JENNIFER EHLE! I was pretty proud when they announced her name along with Glenn Close, frances McDormand and Julianna Marguiles. That says a lot about the exposure she's gotten since P&P2. anyway, the movie i think is about a large group of women (allied--US, Brit, etc) who are taken into an internment camp by the Japanese. Kinda like a female version of empire of the sun, i'm guessing. anyway, they start up a choir during their time in internment, and learn about life, each other, etc... comes out this spring. (anyone in the l.a. area want to catch it sometime?)"}, {"response": 65, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (10:03)", "body": "Winter I saw this trailer ages ago and couldn't remember what the film was called. It does look really good. Also reminiscent of \"ATown Like Alice\", which will be very familiar to the Aussies, but perhaps not everyone else."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (12:41)", "body": "Kate, I love \"A Town Like Alice\" - read the book first and later saw the movie. Of course, Nevil Shute is also one of my favorite authors!! \"Paradise Road\" also reminds me of the TV series \"Tenko\". Did anyone see that?"}, {"response": 67, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (14:32)", "body": "\"A Town Like Alice\" was a wonderful movie. It was my introduction to Bryan Brown, and I found him quite attractive. And a good actor, besides! I ought to read the novel sometime, but I seem to have a list of books longer than the number of days in a year. Maybe in my next lifetime!"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (16:42)", "body": "Tenko liked that on very much,but this reminds me of \"Playing for Time\" with Venessa Redgrave,watched both seires and movie when aired. Tenko hasn't been on A&E for a while."}, {"response": 69, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (04:50)", "body": "the movie i think is about a large group of women (allied--US, Brit, etc) who are taken into an internment camp by the Japanese. Kinda like a female version of empire of the sun, i'm guessing. anyway, they start up a choir during their time in internment, and learn about life, each other, etc... The plot is based - very loosely, I'm afraid - it's been pointed out that it's a dramatization, not a documentary, on something that actually did happen during WWI. 600 Dutch, Australian, and British women and children were interned for 3 1/2 years by the Japanese in a series of prison camps on Sumatra. Thirty-seven percent did not survive. During their internment, as a way to rise above their inhumane conditions and dehumanizing experiences, a group of the women formed what became known as a vocal orchestra. Two of the women wrote down from memory classical orchestral works and arranged them for womens' voices which became the instruments, singing on a series of neutral syllables. The concerts given by this \"orchestra\" was instrumental in maintaining morale among the internees. The concerts ceased when 19 of the 30 singers had died. One of the survivors and singers in the vocal orchestra later attended Stanford University, and 40 years later decided to donate her copy of the music to the University's music library. The archivist of the library was interested in having some record of how the music would have sounded, and approached the director of our local women's chorus about preparing a few sample pieces to be recorded for their archives. The chorus agreed to do this, and thus began a project that took over our lives for the next 4 years. In the process we sang the music of the vocal orchestra for the first time since it was sung on Sumatra in a concert which was attended by the original conductor and 8 of the original singers who were still surviving and came from their current homes in England, Australia, Indonesia, the Netherlands, and the United States. The original concert led to a series of concerts, recordings and a documentary film which was shown on PBS. Some of the survivors have also had books published about thier experience. Many of us who were a part of re-creating this moving real-life experience have very mixed feelings about what \"dramatic license\" will have been taken with the story when it reaches the movie theatres in the name of making it a \"commercial\" success."}, {"response": 70, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (10:17)", "body": "Oh, Joan, is this when you cam eto San Antonio? I am awed."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (11:54)", "body": "Many of us who were a part of re-creating this moving real-life experience have very mixed feelings about what \"dramatic license\" will have been taken with the story when it reaches the movie theatres I can understand that. This must have been a very revolting experience for your choir and you were able to transfer some hints of it in this account ,Joan."}, {"response": 72, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (01:07)", "body": "is this when you came to San Antonio? Right. :-) And also to honor composer Kirke Mechem with a program of his works for women's chorus. This must have been a very revolting experience for your choir Really, the best word for it was \"inspiring\"- what those women were able to accomplish though starving, ill and malnourished and living in subhuman conditions, yet maintaining their connection with \"civilization\" and rising above all of the squalor in this way. The name of the PBS film was \"Song of Survival.\" I find it difficult to imagine how they settled on a title like \"Paradise Road\" for such an experience!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (07:22)", "body": "Joan, this topic interests me greatly because my father was a Japanese POW for 44 months. How people can rise above such things is a source of endless astonishment and admiration! What an honor for you and your choir! I can't wait to see this movie."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (04:25)", "body": "Kathleen's copy of A Fatal Inversion is going around this group like it's a disease. If you like Jeremy Northam, or if you're just into really twisted mysteries, I suggest you get your hands on a copy. Those of us who've seen it agree that it's REALLY worth it...;)"}, {"response": 75, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (00:02)", "body": "Has anyone seen The Crucible or Portrait of a Lady who is willing to share their opinion? I am interested in both, but have not heard first-person accounts of either."}, {"response": 76, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "I saw the world premiere Saturday night of \"Still Breathing\" which is one of the best movies I've seen in a long time. The audience was held spellbound by this remarkable love story. It starred Brendan (Encino Man) Fraser and the lovely Joanna Going (both of who I get to meet in person). It took place in San Antonio and LA and had some really cool twists and turns and emotional moments. Since, this was the world premiere, everyone in the theater a free CD with the entire soundtrack of the movie. The only pressing there will ever be of this CD. The movie had a remarkable soundtrack, specifically the \"Berceuse\" by Chopin, which was the soul of the film, as well as Verdi's \"La Traviata\" and the Jim Cullum Jazz Band playing Louis Armstrong. I met Paul Mills along with the cast and production company at a fabulous party after the movie that went into the wee hours, it was quite an experience. Highly recommended. I predict good things for this movie."}, {"response": 77, "author": "jane", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "Terry, I didn't know you were part of the arty scene in Austin! Sounds like fun, and I'll look out for the movie. Now I'll tell you about the premiere party I went to last week. I was in a fantastic modern hotel in Munich with my boss, on a business trip of course.. The huge atrium of the hotel had been decorated in white with black spots. Turned out to be the German premiere of \"101 Dalmatiner\". Not a kid in sight, just lots of cool looking Germans dressed in black (with a little white and red visi le) smoking cigarettes like crazy. Claudia Schleiffler (sp?), the supermodel, was the MC. I usually don't go to parties that I have not been invited to, especially when everyone is speaking a language I don't understand, but my boss really wanted to wander in so we did. I did not eat or drink anything, however, out of respect for the hosts and my questionable status. There was a really wacky fantasy fashion show with dalmation-inspired clothes worn by very gorgeous giant models. The grand door prize as a white Macintosh with black spots, of course. I can't believe that I just confessed to my Austen friends to crashing a party---not even Wickham would go to a party without a proper invitation."}, {"response": 78, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (22:16)", "body": "Claudia Schieffer! We'll have to move this discussion to celebrity lusts in 'drool'. If Claudia Schieffer was there, it was worth crashing. Good work."}, {"response": 79, "author": "winter", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (00:18)", "body": "hey! i just caught \"cinema paradisio\" on bravo tonight. i had seen this so many times before, but this was when Colin Firth was not part of my vocabulary. so... imagine my surprise when i see this again, and the actor (don't know his name) who plays the old salvatore/\"toto\" (the main character) is the spitting image of colin firth!!! older, but just as dreamy!! a colin clone who speaks italian! i'm sure livia would just love that!"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (09:33)", "body": "Susan: Has anyone seen The Crucible or Portrait of a Lady who is willing to share their opinion? I am interested in both, but have not heard first-person accounts of either. I saw The Crucible last week and was very disappointed. I thought that both Arthur Miller and Nicholas Hytner blew the opportunity to make a really gripping film. As I remember it, the play was a tense human drama, but Miller sabotaged his own work by opening it up for the screen--the addition of so many new characters and scenes detracted from the central moral dilemma of the hero. And Hytner, who is primarily a stage director, still has a lot to learn about film directing (although I like his irst movie, The Madness of King George ). It makes me nervous because Hytner's next project is a film version of a novel I absolutely adore, The Object of My Affection by Stephen McCauley, and I'd hate to see him mess it up."}, {"response": 81, "author": "kate", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "I quite enjoyed the Crucible, but as I have said before, I was in a production of it at school, and I was really interested in what they had done to it. Portrait of a Lady. Don't bother. I found it long, dull, and depressing. She should have KNOWN that any character played by John Malkovich was going to be trouble. There is supposed to be all this sexual tension, and I just didn't get it at all. Very disappointing, because I really like Jane Campion. But I went last night to see HAMLET. It's fantastic. I cried (even though I knew what was going to happen) The incredible depth of the ideas expressed, which came across so clearly. Branagh really made Hamlet a real and believable person, caught up in complex events beyond his control, frustrated by his own fears and doubts. It also made the Ophelia/Hamlet relationship make sense to me in a way it hadn't before - when he realises she's dead and cries \"I loved Ophelia\" you can really believe it, even though he treated her so badly. Go and see this film. But make sure you're in a comfortable seat. The first half is 2 1/2 hours, the second half 1 1/2 hours. And Derek Jacobi was great too. Jack Lemmon was awful, but he's only on the screen for about 15 minutes."}, {"response": 82, "author": "Becks", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (00:58)", "body": "Yes, I didn't like Portrait of a Lady or the Crucible. What talent, and completely wasted. DDL is nowhere near droolable in this one! Kate, JM gives me the willies too! And Hamlet is one of the most exciting films I've seen in years. Everyone-go see it! And add Sling Blade to your list--it didn't hit me till after I left the theatre. There are so very few films that stay with you, and this movie certainly does."}, {"response": 83, "author": "winter", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (01:16)", "body": "saw \"marvin's room\" this afternoon. it was good. i really didn't think too much of it-- i mean, no one stood out, no spectacular performances. but perhaps, because of the mood of the film, no one was supposed to have stood out. leonardo di caprio was a little TOO attractive, to play his character-- his looks definitely were a distraction. but i'm not complaining!"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Becks", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (01:38)", "body": "Winter, besides the helicopters, what is Oscar week like? See anyone? Who are they predicting will win?"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (01:50)", "body": "Kate, you must join us over at the Kenneth Branagh topic at Drool...we are all agog over Hamlet , have tons of pictures, but not the elusive undershirt pic yet...:-("}, {"response": 86, "author": "winter", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (01:56)", "body": "oscar week is like living in the middle of an obstacle course. they have to set up scaffolds for the press, bleachers for the fans (you can sit on them, but get there on saturday or sunday if you want a seat), they've got people with walkie talkies all around looking like the secret service, catering trucks, satellite trucks vying for spaces on the parking lot, and those big gold statuettes get hauled in. all this, and i'm trying to just drive into my garage without getting into an accident or being block d. it's exciting, because you feel the 'electriciyt' of it all, because 364 days a year, the shrine is a real dump. you'd be surprised at how unglamorous it looks in real life. but also local residents get to short end of the stick because getting in and out of your street becomes a 10 miniute nightmare. everyone's hidden in their limos, so i never see people, but i always hang about for a half hour or so, just in case i get lucky. as for winners, i predict a sweep for the english patient (but ralph fiennes won't even be there :( )"}, {"response": 87, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (13:15)", "body": "Some people say that he will be at the Oscars. The play he is in must have given him time off."}, {"response": 88, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (14:54)", "body": "I thought I had the undershirt one. Well anyway, I saw SHINE, didn't like it. But I have been watching a movie my aunt videotaped THE FLIGHT OF THE PHOENIX with James Stewart, Ernest Borgnine, Dan Duryea, Ian Bannen, Sir Richard Attenborough. Its about 2:45 mins long, but I only have seen 1:30 of it will finish tonite. Was very good. Beginning reminded me of TEP."}, {"response": 89, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (18:00)", "body": "I love that movie, Laura. Have you reached the part yet where they all learn what the designer really designs?"}, {"response": 90, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (09:55)", "body": "Model Airplanes!!!! But he got it to fly. I figured he must have been a genious. I felt bad because Ian Bannen's character who was jewish kept giving Dorfman a horrible time. I thought the movie was wonderful. I kept getting very thirsty."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (12:27)", "body": "I just watched Babette's Feast. I loved it. It is about gratitude,faith,love,scarfices,commitment and choices you name it is there."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "I kept getting very thirsty. __ LOL, Laura. Those cracked lips. Made you want to rush up to the screen with pitchers of water."}, {"response": 93, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "Not just cracked lips but skin, oh god they looked like there were melting. I don't know when you saw it last but the beginning is just like THE ENGLISH PATIENT."}, {"response": 94, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (14:42)", "body": "I saw Secrets and Lies last weekend and liked it very much. It was overflowing with emotion and had some marvelous performances. Wasn't brother Maurice Rosencrantz in Hamlet ? (Or was that Guilderstern?!)"}, {"response": 95, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (15:32)", "body": "Just watched Spellbound last night after a lapse of many years. The attrraction between Ingrid Bergman and Gregory Peck is ... well, spellbinding. If I ever take my friends advice, I would only have my head examined by the likes of an Ingrid Bergman. Very good tense story line with some dream sequences by Salvidor Dali."}, {"response": 96, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (18:22)", "body": "Cheryl, yep, maurice was Rosencrantz.... or possibly Guildenstern ;-)"}, {"response": 97, "author": "winter", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (19:41)", "body": "don't remember which one maurice was, but he was BRILLIANT!!! i know i keep mentioning it, but \"life is sweet\" , another mike leigh flick, has got him as a real slime ball sleaze, who makes a pass at alison steadman (mrs. bennet from P&P2). really hilarious. please rent it if you haven't already seen it.. it's just one of those movies that constantly get overlooked. i'm getting dragged to see 'private parts' tomorrow. it's part of a deal. wish me luck. anyone seen it?"}, {"response": 98, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (10:52)", "body": "Winter - haven't seen \"Private Parts\" yet and really don't desire to, but I too agreed to see it as part of a \"deal.\" My husband accompanied me to TEP which he moderately enjoyed, so I told him I would go to PP. The reviews have been great but I'm not much of a Howard Stern fan."}, {"response": 99, "author": "Luba", "date": "Sat, Mar 29, 1997 (05:53)", "body": "On Thursday, I saw The English Patient. Man, what a truly marvellous film! I cried, laughed at some point, and for the rest of the time, was completely enraptured with the photography, the music, the actors,sp.Juliette Binoche and Kristin Scott Thomas, and small poetic details, like the seduction scene with the candles in the courtyard, the murals in the church, etc. I just loved it, it left me with a deep feeling of peace, though it`s so sad in a way. Poor Colin Firth, I felt so sorry for his character. Such a nice guy, didn\ufffdt deserve to be cheated on...oh well... :-)"}, {"response": 100, "author": "Charlotte", "date": "Sun, Jun  7, 1998 (16:47)", "body": "Last night I saw The Truman Show . Everything you may have heard or read about this film is true. You will never think of Jim Carrey the same again. I have never liked Carrey, and studiously avoid his films, but on the other hand, I will pay to see anything directed by Peter Weir, so I went last night. I want to see it again. It was enchanting. Carrey blew me away. And the music was spellbinding. I can't wait to buy the soundtrack! Go see it. Tell me what you think."}, {"response": 101, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Jun  7, 1998 (20:42)", "body": "Charlotte, I will put this on my must-rent list. Anything that can be described as \"enchanting\" winds up on my list!"}, {"response": 102, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jun  8, 1998 (02:42)", "body": "Sounds great. I'll check it out. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 164, "subject": "The Magic 30 minutes", "response_count": 22, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "Actually, Anne, wasn't it the Colonel who waited a half hour?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (10:43)", "body": "There is something nice about a 30-minute period."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (13:15)", "body": "Actually, in P&P2 the Colonel waits for her for nearly half an hour, but in the book it is almost a full hour. Darcy only stops by briefly to take his leave. I have always wondered whether the Colonel's extended visit was just because he liked Lizzy very much and didn't want to leave without the chance to say good-bye, or if Darcy had asked him to make himself available to Lizzy in case she had any questions to ask him. One of my favorite lines in P&P (for being so terribly tortured for our hero) is: \"If your abhorence of me should make my assertions valueless, you can not be prevented by the same cause from confiding in my cousin; and that there may be the possibility of consulting with him, I shall endeavor to find some opportunity of putting this letter in your hands in the course of the morning.\" It must have been heart-wrenching for him to think that the woman he loves abhors him (I can't help thinking of him as a living breathing and ( for Cheryl ) bathing human being.) So, I think maybe he said a word or two to his cousin, something along the lines of: \"Fitzwilliam, I would like you do to do me a favour. Would you try to find an opportunity to speak alone with Miss Bennet today. I believe she may have something she wishes to ask you. If she does, I would like you to answer in full--no matter what the question. Will you?\" I'm sure Fitzwilliam would have been glad to have another moment alone with Lizzy, and if she had returned, he might have suggested a short walk in the garden."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (13:26)", "body": "Moved from \"propose new threads\" topic: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 6 of 191 [austen]: Propose new threads here Response 62 of 62: Donna (Donna) * Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (13:15) * 4 lines There are 3 reasons: 1. Proper thing to do is say good bye to Lizzie and The Collin's 2. Col. Fiztwilliam (was there) would back him up on the Wickham and Georgiana elopement if needed. 3. He would not see her again and would not know her feelings about the letter. If she wrote a return letter it would mean that they were engaged and if he would write her again it would mean the same."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (19:03)", "body": "Sorry about that \"Senior Moment\" - getting my \"Fitzwilliams\" mixed up! If Lizzie wrote a return letter they would be engaged? Oh my...I think Darcy had made up his mind to marry Lizzy, which is why he wrote the letter, but he also did want to know her feelings. Do you think at that time, while still emotional, he would have, dare I say it, grovelled. Or at least asked forgivness? I have trouble getting into any chat area- it lookes like I log in 15 times. often I just get a blank grey screen, or I can' log off. embarassing, but I'm sure it's our PC"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (22:57)", "body": "Maybe ATT World Net has the same trouble with the chat room that AOL and Prodigy has, Anne."}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (11:27)", "body": "I do have a question -- after that horrific proposal & Darcy handing Lizzie the letter, he actually shows up back at Hunsford to take his leave. Wouldn't it have been terribly awkward of him to see her after all that's past? Or was he just doing it for propriety's sake?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (12:18)", "body": "Amy2: Wouldn't it have been terribly awkward of him to see her after all that's past? Or was he just doing it for propriety's sake? yes...and yes. ;-)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "kate", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (16:32)", "body": "I suspect he was fairly certain that she would not see him in any case, and it would have looked very bad to leave without attempting to say goodbye - that would have raised more comment."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (17:24)", "body": "I think Darcy probably went to the parsonage right after handing Lizzie the letter so as he'd be sure not to see her there. He said his good-byes and left right away. Col. Fitz probably went later and waited around longer."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (17:46)", "body": "I'd always assumed he went to the parsonage first, intending to give her the letter; how else would he have been sure she was out walking? Finding her out he went after her to give her the letter, rather than wait for her at the cottage and endure the Collinses company in the meantime..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "kate", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (18:05)", "body": "According to the book... Elizabeth goes toward the place where she normally walks, then remembers that Darcy sometimes goes there. So she goes for a walk along the lane. As she passes one of the gates to the park (ie Rosings) she sees a gentleman in a sort of grove edging the park. He calls out to her and when she approaches, holds out the letter and says \"I have been walking in the grove some time in the hope of meeting you.\" Presumably it would have been easier to give her the letter in private than in front of everyone. Earlier in the story, Lizzy is puzzled by the fact that she ofter runs into D on her walks, and that even when she makes a point of telling him that she often walks that way, he still turns up. He obviously knew that she would be likely to go for a walk that morning."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (21:08)", "body": "Inko, I hadnt thought about him hurring back. I guess I see him, at first, as a spoiled, rich aristrocrat who Lizzy tempers. maybe thats the catch - Havent we wanted to smooth off rough edges of the men we love.? It never works in reality, but it did in the book..Lizzy turns a sour puss into a caring loving husband.I bet you all have already discussed this!!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (21:09)", "body": "Inko, I hadnt thought about him hurring back. I guess I see him, at first, as a spoiled, rich aristrocrat who Lizzy tempers. maybe thats the catch - Havent we wanted to smooth off rough edges of the men we love.? It never works in reality, but it did in the book..Lizzy turns a sour puss into a caring loving husband.I bet you all have already discussed this!!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (21:10)", "body": "I dont know why it posted twice sorry. I miss the pony express..."}, {"response": 16, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (20:30)", "body": "Something earlier about actually asking Col. to make himself available to Eliz. - hasn't he talked her up to him already. Even before Fitzwilliam meets her. Some comments from Fitz. when he's with her early on. All these new people Liza. runs into seem to have already heard a bit about her, esp. from someone who broods and doesn't talk much."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "Ann in response #3.....I like your idea of what most likely happened in regards to Col Fitzwilliam waiting for Lizzy at the parsonage. Since Darcy already told Lizzy that he could substantiate the story he told her in his letter.....and it seemed very important to Darcy that Lizzy believed the truth about him...I could see that he might ask his cousin to be available to answer any questions Lizzy may have...or just to be there to say \"it's all true!\""}, {"response": 18, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "So you guys think that Darcy knew Lizzy was still in the groves reading his letter when he came to call, so as to avoid seeing her at the Parsonage? If they had met again here, it seems it would have been terribly awkward for both."}, {"response": 19, "author": "gianine", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (09:13)", "body": "I like the idea that Both gentlemen came to call to say goodbye. Darcy leaves to avoid running into Lizzy. But Fitzwilliam stays on to say his farewells. It makes sense to me."}, {"response": 20, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (15:55)", "body": "But did he KNOW she wouldn't show up immediately, so he could leave in safety?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (18:55)", "body": "There was WAY too much in that letter for her to just read it & head home. Very obviously she had strong negative feelings toward him. He knew she would be affected by the information he presented - probably still disgusted with him. No way she could just read it and head home. Surely he realized she wouldn't want to chance being interrupted by Mr. Collins, or anybody. So, getting to the point, he definitely knew she would still be out when he stopped by!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:27)", "body": "OK, thanks Cindy. I finally got my answer! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 165, "subject": "Romance in P&P", "response_count": 24, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (02:33)", "body": "Last week's worth of messages from the old topic: Topic 91 of 192 [austen]: Guilty Pleasures: Romance in P&P Response 153 of 184: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (11:15) * 2 lines You all are probably right as far as the book is concerned. But in any of the P&P dramatizations, when anyone even mentions \"Mr. Darcy\" around Lizzy after Proposal #1, she acts like she's going to burst out of her skin! So I'm going to accord Jane the sensitivity of realizing that something is amiss if her own sister is acting so jumpy! I'm referring particuarly to when Lydia spills the beans about Darcy being the Best Man at her wedding. Listen to the way Ehle says: \"Mr. _Darcy_?\" And all of her agon zing about losing his good opinion in P&P2. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 91 of 192 [austen]: Guilty Pleasures: Romance in P&P Response 154 of 184: Johanne (JohanneD) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (14:59) * 1 lines I'm with you Amy2, Jane must have suspected something, anything, Lizzy was way to obvious. But what strikes me though is that Jane looks like she just doesn't get it, no reactions, no questions, no implied allusions to anything. Only perhaps her slight smile when Lizzy says Darcy was there when she received news of Lydia's elopment. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 91 of 192 [austen]: Guilty Pleasures: Romance in P&P Response 155 of 184: Ann (Ann) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (17:49) * 1 lines Also, Jane's reaction when Bingley and Darcy return to Hertfordshire and call on the Bennet's. She has too much of a smile on her face if she still thinks Lizzy doesn't care for Darcy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 91 of 192 [austen]: Guilty Pleasures: Romance in P&P Response 156 of 184: Joan, too (jwinsor) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (20:05) * 1 lines Jane was basically incapable of suspicion - and also, at the time of Bingley's return to Netherfield, much too preoccupied with her own feelings and emotions to be particularly observant of anyone else's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 91 of 192 [austen]: Guilty Pleasures: Romance in P&P Response 157 of 184: Sharon (sld) * Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (20:50) * 4 lines [ So I'm going to accord Jane the sensitivity of realizing that something is amiss if her own sister is acting so jumpy!] In the book, what Jane did know was a) Elizabeth turned down the proposal; b) that Elizabeth was uncomfortable about having prejudged Mr. Darcy; and when Darcy was coming to Longbourn with Bingley, that Elizabeth was about to face the guy she turned down. Jane could have attrubuted Elizebeth's nervousness to these things. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 91 of 192 [austen]: Guilty Pleasures: Romance in P&P Response 158 of 184: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (10:57) * 1 lines Did Jane know that Lizzy had already bumped into Mr. Darcy at Pemberley? Or was everyone too caught up in the Lydia Fiasco at that point to mention it? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 91 of 192 [austen]: Guilty Pleasures: Romance in P&P Response 159 of 184: Donna (Donna) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (11:36) * 1 lines Yes, Lizzie told Jane. Jane's reply \"Mr. Darcy knows of our troubles\"? Lizzie \"He happen upon me while I was reading your letter\". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 91 of 192 [austen]: Guilty Pleasures: Romance in P&P Response 160 of 184: kathleen (elder) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:30) * 4 lines But I do not believe that Lizzy said this in the book. Lizzy tells Jane very little of what happened at Pemberley, because she does not want to mention Bingley's name. When Lizzy tells Jane that she & Darcy are engaged, Jane ends their dialogue saying, \"But Lizzy, you have been very sly, very reserved with me. How little did you tell me of what passed at Pemberley and Lambton! I owe all that I know of it, to another, not to you.\" Then Lizzy shares the information about Darcy helping Lydia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 91 of 192 [austen]: Guilty Pleasures: Romance in P&P Response 161 of 184: Sharon (sld) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (19:17) * 4 lines [I owe all that I know of it, to another, not to you.] I always thought this 'other' was Bingley, although it could have been Aunt Gardiner. Before this, Jane had said somthing to the effect of she and Bingley had talked of the possibility of an Elizabeth/Darcy combination, but had decided it not possible. What do you think? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 91 of 192 [austen]: Guilty Pleasures: Romance in P&P Response 162 of 184: Inko (Inko) * Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (19:42) * 1 lines I think Jane meant that she had heard about Lizzie being at Pemberley from Bingley after their engagement. Which would have led them to "}, {"response": 2, "author": "Karen", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (19:40)", "body": "Sharon \"Rolling his eyes?\" Yes, Darcy often rolls his eyes in contempt of others; sometimes they are actually quite funny. My two favorite are when Mrs. Bennet is blathering on about Lydia's marriage (he's standing at the window, Bingley seated) and when Lady C. interrupts his flirting with Lizzy at Rosings. He also rolls his eyes at the Netherfield Ball when dancing with Lizzy. After she makes the comment about \"we are each of an unsocial, taciturn disposition, unwilling to speak, unlesswe expect to say something that will amaz the whole room,\" he comments, this is no very striking resemblance to your own character, I'm sure\" and rolls his eyes. I have to go back to find the second one but the third one is when they are parting (after the dance). Lizzy says she is trying to determine his character and if she doesn't do it now, she wouldn't have another opportunity to do so. He responses (as Amy's photo shows),\"I would by no means suspend any pleasure of yours\" and rolls his eyes again. Anne3 \"Expecting Darcy to be amused assumes that he should find Lizzy's raillery to be cute rather than annoying\" I'm expecting him to be torn about his feelings as he was at Netherfield when Jane and Lizzy finally left. In responding to Caroline Bingley, he said he was happy not to have Lizzy's pert opinions and fine eyes not about but his standing at the window and the look on his face betrayed him. Anne3, you and I may never agree on how this was directed. I just wanted to see him being more pleasant. He looked away from her as she came in and was overall really cold throughout the scene. Whereas in other sce es, Netherfield and Rosings, you could watch him move toward her and then away. At the ball, he, IMHO, never really warms up to her."}, {"response": 3, "author": "mpk", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (22:13)", "body": "I guess I am repeating what my sisters before have eloquently stated already: I really do not see \"romance\" in the Netherfield ball scene but rather the tension and uneasiness that both Darcy and Lizzy feel for each other. Lizzie is so caught up with Wickham's plight that she just cannot wait to throw this in Darcy's face. It was a big step for Darcy to approach, much less ask, Lizzie to dance with him. He is so ill at ease with Lizzie, the woman who he has fallen in love with and is fighting that feeling, that he tries his hardest not to convey these feelings. Instead, he perfects the dance steps (as does Lizzie) and shows that he is rather indifferent/unemotional (in the loving way) toward Lizzie. If he did not already fancy her, I believe he would not have sparred with Lizzie as he did during the dance. At least I felt this way, even with the first viewing, without having read the book. There is such incredible tension in that scene, dare I say sexual tension? After all, it is the first time that Darcy and Lizzie touch and are in such close proximity to each other. CF did a wonderful job of conveying all sorts of feelings throughout... I just love him rolling his eyes when his aunt wants to have her \"share\" of the conversation. It makes him seem somehow less \"proud\" and \"stiff\" and instead rather a bit more \"humane\"..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "mpk", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Whoops! \"the woman *with whom* he has fallen in love, and lusts after, and is now trying to fight those feelings...\""}, {"response": 5, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (11:57)", "body": "The Netherfield dance scene is really only metaphor for a kind of battlefield. In the war between the sexes, Darcy and Miss Bennett are going through trial by combat. Darcy does not love Eliz. at this point, notwithstanding this business about her fine eyes, his asking Miss Bennet to dance with him, when he knows that she cannot really refuse him is an act of aggresession. He will dance with her, no matter how much he dislikes it, or she dislikes him. More for his own purposes than anything else. H s attraction to Eliz. is simply that of a wealthy, self-centered aristocrat, used to having his way with a lot of women, finally meeting up with someone who acts differently towards him. This is what whets his interest. ANd like most men, he wants to control this woamn, and the relationship, if any. On her part Eliz. Bennett is determined to needle him, to get back at him for putting her through what amounts to an unwanted dance by both parties! Eliz. Bennett is fully determined not to become simply another one of Darcy's conquests. She will not be controlled. Never mind his money and great estates. She, like most women did not want to be forced into this kind of intimacy with Darcy in public. She did want to dance, but being almost forced to, will try to learn something about him. At this point she is merely curious. She has no feelings of love for him yet."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "]... his asking Miss Bennet to dance with him, when he knows that she cannot really refuse him is an act of aggresession.... Carl, the dance scene is my favorite scene from the movie, but I had never considered it in this way. While I knew that Elizabeth could not refuse him because of social strictures, I had not thought about the flip side of the coin---that Darcy would take advantage of this bit of manners and compell Elizabeth to dance with him. Hmmmm.... I'm not certain I agree, for I do not like to think that any one would thus trap a person (let alone that prince of men, Darcy!) but your assertations do have a r ng of truth about them. ] He will dance with her, no matter how much he dislikes it ., or she dislikes him. However, I can agree with this statement. We know, from the author's own information, that he is already attracted to her by this point. I always had the impression that he seems so stern and disapproving during the dance because he has stooped to do something (against his own better judgment) because of the attraction he feels for Elizabeth. But during the dance he does try to win her approval, but she rebuffs his attempts at small talk, even though she challenged him to talk. He is so clearly trying and she is so clearly already determined to be prejudiced against him. In a not short fashion, I am trying to say that I agree with the truth of your statement, but not with all of your assertations. I guess that my attraction to Darcy will not let me see him in such a cold-hearted role.:-)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (15:47)", "body": "I think you are forgetting that Lizzie avoided dancing with Darcy at the Lucas's. She also said she hoped to never dance with Darcy. She gets angry at herself for accepting. Didn't she wriggle her way out of the social implications at the Lucas's? I think a woman was able to refuse without looking bad. Remember, these people rarely used the word \"why?\"."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (17:02)", "body": "] a woman was able to refuse without looking bad. if she refused one man it was supposed to be because she didn't want to dance at all that evening, and she was then not supposed to dance with anyone else..."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (19:28)", "body": "' ANd like most men, he wants to control this woamn, and the relationship, if any.' Oh. I always feel like the odd one out when people discuss this scene. I do think it is tense and battle-like, particularly in the film. But I think it is Lizzie who is determined to make things difficult, who is uncompromising, can't resist doing anything to nettle him. I think she is flustered and not thinking straight, shooting off in all directions. In the book particularly, Darcy is surprisingly gallant, tries to find common ground numerous times, and despite being rattled eventually, is prepared to forg ve her afterwards."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (19:29)", "body": "' ANd like most men, he wants to control this woamn, and the relationship, if any.' Oh. I always feel like the odd one out when people discuss this scene. I do think it is tense and battle-like, particularly in the film. But I think it is Lizzie who is determined to make things difficult, who is uncompromising, can't resist doing anything to nettle him. I think she is flustered and not thinking straight, shooting off in all directions. In the book particularly, Darcy is surprisingly gallant, tries to find common ground numerous times, and despite being rattled eventually, is prepared to forg ve her afterwards."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (19:42)", "body": "That 'on foot' smile, Amy. I don't know why either, but I find it somewhat exciting too. Is it because he recognises even here that she doesn't 'perform to strangers' and is pleased despite knowing he should disapprove? Or maybe its an appreciation of the connection between physical/mental/sexual energy?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "That 'on foot' smile, Amy. I don't know why either, but I find it somewhat exciting too. Is it because he recognises even here that she doesn't 'perform to strangers' and is pleased despite knowing he should disapprove? Or maybe its an appreciation of the connection between physical/mental/sexual energy? ___ Better ideas than I had about it, Hil. I like your explanation than the idea of liking that he is making fun of her."}, {"response": 13, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "[I always feel like the odd one out when people discuss this scene. I do think it is tense and battle-like, particularly in the film. But I think it is Lizzie who is determined to make things difficult.... Darcy is surprisingly gallant, tries to find common ground numerous times, and despite being rattled ventually, is prepared to forgive her afterwards.] Then that makes two of us, Hil. First of all, Darcy didn't take it lightly, asking her to dance. He hates it in general. But he wanted to do it with her , maybe even just as a way to be with her since it is difficult to talk to her. If you recall that at Lucas Lodge, he kinda of just followed Lizzy around, 'as a step' towards talking to her himself. That he asked her to dance and went quickly away, I take as consistent with him being uncomfortable. In the book we know that everyone in the room s looking at them with amazement when they take the dance floor, so it would be consistent with his discomfort for him to go through the steps of the dance stiffly in the film. He wasn't annoyed with her at the first part of the dance, and when she indicates that it is his turn to speak, 'He smiled, and assured her that whatever she wished hem to say should be said'. This indicates to me that he is attempting to match her banter. It is in this tone that \"It is no stiking resemblance to your character, I amd sure. How near it may be tjo mine I cannot pretend to say. You think it a faithful portrait undoubtedly\" comes out. (In the film, I do not see him rollin his eyes at her . He is speaking and looking ahead and then he turns in the dance.) I think here he is loosely alluding to their prior conversation when she accuses him of hating everybody and he says she misjudges them. I don't think that he is annoyed with her until toward the end of the dance. He makes and effort and tries to talk with her about books (after all the ragging she did on him about conversing during the dance), but then she rebuffs that and starts grilling him about his resentment. And regarding Darcy's being like most men, 'and like most men, he wants to control this woman, and the relationship'..... In his mind, who knows? But in practice, he just don't have the balls."}, {"response": 14, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (21:35)", "body": "Then that makes three of us, Hil and Sharon :)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (23:00)", "body": "Four. I think it is clear that by this point in the book Darcy is somewhat in love with her, or at least is strongly attracted to her, but he does not want to be . He resents her for attracting him, and for what she makes him feel. He is constantly torn between wanting to be near her, and wanting to have her out of his sight entirely. That is why the dance is such a perfect metaphor. During the dance the movements at times bring them close together and at others push them apart. It is exactly what is goi g on in Darcy's mind--he is being pulled towards her while he is trying to push away."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "Don't forget the \"fine eyes\" comment that he makes BEFORE the Netherfield Ball....at Lucas Lodge...it is one of the first indications that his feelings are changing and that he begins to notice Lizzy. I think by the time the ball comes along...his feelings have begun to grow...her stay at Netherfield when she began to challenge him as he had never been challenged before, by standing up to him. When he asks her to dance...she has become very interesting to him, indeed....he is very attracted to her, eve though he may not want to admit it even to himself! Count me as #5"}, {"response": 17, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "When Lizzy left Netherfield with Jane, Darcy might have said he was glad to see her then leave but deep inside he was hooked, his mind he wanted to control but his heart belong to her."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "Oh, I'm glad I have company! But I'm worried by this: 'And regarding Darcy's being like most men, 'and like most men, he wants to control this woman, and the relationship'..... In his mind, who knows? But in practice, he just don't have the balls.' Does this imply that a 'real' man, one worth anything, will want to control a woman and relationship, like Carl said? What about a desire for equality? If a man desires that in a relationship, is he to be regarded as less of a man? I won't buy into that. Isn't it just perpetuating what we don't want? If male control, and female choice of this control, has a long genetic history, which I think is likely, wanting and working for equality in relationships requires heaps more balls than the 'Me Tarzan, you Ja e' approach."}, {"response": 19, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "Right on Hil, society told me for a long time that was the way but guess I wised up and listened to what I wanted. Found a man who was also looking for equality and that's what I call a man, one who needs not to control and dominate to feel good about himself :)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (23:10)", "body": "{Does this imply that a 'real' man, one worth anything, will want to control a woman and relationship, like Carl said?} No, Carl said that 'like all men Darcy wants to control a woman'. There is nothing in Darcy's actions to indicate that he takes this attitude, although we can't ever really know what someone is thinking. But we do know by his actions that he is not agressive , so having such a belief (if he did) would not go very far in practice. (Our Lizzy would quash that like a bug) By his actions though, I think we can rest assured that Darcy does find an equal relationship appealing. And there probably are some people out there that ,I. would view Darcy 'less of a man' (in those times particularly) for allowing a woman equality and respect. But at the end of the day, Darcy shows he could not care less what those other think."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (23:27)", "body": "Sharon, I agree with you. I cannot take Carl's view of Darcy being a control freak; it's such a blasphemous thought. If he wanted to control his spouse, he would have married some litte mouse (something a lesser man would have done). Personally, I think the reason why some many of us love Darcy's character is because he wants Elizabeth because of her mind. He could have chosen any woman in England and he chose Lizzy. He knew going into the relationship that Lizzy was not the type of woman to be manipulated and IMHO that is one of many reasons why he chose Lizzy."}, {"response": 22, "author": "breezin", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (19:51)", "body": "Ladies, ladies, another aspect of this discussion needs to be pointed out also: Darcy's creator was Jane Austen, not John or Joe Austen. As a woman and a novelist, ergo , one might deduce her bent as being what a woman's idea(l) of a (gentle)man would be, rather than a man's. Moreover, her satiric spinster's mind (and I do not use the word spinster derogatorily, but as a woman of free spiritednes) would seem to corroborate our female views of the matter, rather than Carl's (though >Dieu sait that Carl's take on a male novelist's created idea(l) woman would doubtless be more accurate than mine!) I rest my case."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Cleo", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (17:19)", "body": "I thought Elizabeth was a tad bitter but I attributed it to the lingering effect of his slight, the intelligence she had recently acquired re: his \"character\" and her desire (in vain) to dance with Wickham. Remember, she had planned on being his partner. Regardless, the scene was a precursor to the fencing sceen in 4 or 5 (I forget)."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Genette", "date": "Sun, Apr  6, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "While I do think Lizzy was a bit unpleasant to Darcy at the Netherfield Ball, I am able to forgive her (much as Darcy did). She went to the ball with great hopes of a lovely romantic evening with Mr. Wickham - had prepared her appearance carefully in anticipation, etc. And what a night! First, Wickham is not there - Darcy's fault to her way of thinking. Second, she has to dance with Mr. Collins - and sees Darcy notice her embarassing partner's lack of grace. By the time Darcy asks her to dance she's n a foul mood with him, indeed. (Besides, he comes up to ask while she's in the midst of a recital of his \"evil\" toward Wickham. Ever notice the appalling timing of all of Darcy's approaches to her as immediately following her having ill thoughts of him fresh in mind?) Then she feels self-conscious as people pay attention to the fact that they are dancing together and gets worried about what those people see, so starts conversation. In the book it says that at the end of their dance \"in Darcy's breast there was a tolerable powerful feeling towards her, which soon procured her pardon, and directed all his anger against another.\" In P&P2 I see much physical/sexual tension between D&E. Both are attracted to the other against their wishes - indeed, against their better judgement! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 166, "subject": "Who Else to Play Darcy?", "response_count": 36, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "mpk", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (21:41)", "body": "I love this crazy group and I am so happy that I found you all just about three months ago...I get such a kick just \"listening\" to everyone and putting in my 2 cents in occasionally...LOL and loving it!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "Hey, Carolyn! Where could we cast Crazy Louie and Beaker?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (23:36)", "body": "Not to change the subject, but ... has anyone seen Wishbone's Darcy? He does a great job in the dancing scene!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (23:37)", "body": "Back to Beaker - I think he'd look dashing in his regimentals. Pick an officer, any officer"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (00:00)", "body": "I always liked Digit! He could be Sir William."}, {"response": 6, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (11:38)", "body": "How about the actor who plays Mr. Elton in the A&E version of EMMA? He looked like a fleshier CF in some scenes!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "SYLVIA", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (14:24)", "body": "WHAT ABOUT RALPH FIENNES FOR DARCY? i BELIEVE HE CAN SMOLDER!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (15:50)", "body": "Wishbone P&P : what about this old and chubby Lizzy! Taped it for my daughter though ;)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (20:15)", "body": "Yeah, just think how smolder-y Wishbone could have been with the proper leading lady!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "And costume wise they could at least be in the right decade not 20 years later"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (22:02)", "body": "But you must admit, Johanne, Wishbone makes a very fair Darcy indeed!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (22:47)", "body": "Very dashing, more than just a hound dog"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Feb 18, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "Amy2, I noticed that too! At times, from certain angles, Mr. Elton certainly looked like our Darcy. I just thought it was the obsession poking its little head up."}, {"response": 14, "author": "breezin", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (06:39)", "body": "...At times, from certain angles, Mr. Elton certainly looked like our Darcy. I just thought it was the obsession poking its little head up. ROTFLOL Missed this A&E version, but that comment does sound punny and disparaging of the actor's lack of dagginess, compared to CF! (Cheryl? Agreed?)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (06:44)", "body": "MUPPETS AT PEMBERLEY at the updated cast list OK, CF and JE as D & E, of course. Miss Piggy...Caroline Kermit.......Bingley Fozzy........Sir William Gonzo........Mr. Collins Rizzo........Wickham Oscar ......Mr. Hurst Animal......Mr. BennetOscar could also be Mr Hurst and one of Gonzo's girlfriend Camillia chicken...Mrs Hurst Grove....... Mr. Gardiner. Charlotte....Fishlips (Girl singer for Dr. Teeth) Mr. Hurst....Lance Links (the Captain in Pigs in Space) Lady Catherine...Waldorf or Astoria (the one without the mustache) Crazy Louie......Regimental Demolitions officer (I hope I am not confusing Louie with another muppet)) Beaker.......Capt. Carter Bunson.......Capt. Saunderson Musicians: Meryton Assembly Band...Dr. Teeth with Animal on Drums Netherfield Ball Band...The penguin orchestra Food: Prepared by the Svedish Chef Singing vegetables and fruits Talking Cheeses Bandito Lobsters (I always liked Digit! He could be Sir William.) I must confess that I cannot remember which muppet is Digit (and here I thought I knew the muppets). But the part of Capt. Denny is still up for grabs, would Digit fit? PS--I like the Wishbone version of P&P, especially Caroline and her wild gestures."}, {"response": 16, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (07:11)", "body": "I thought that it was Crazy Harry, or Larry, rather than Louie as the dynamite king. I, too , can't recall a Digit. Also, doesn't Fishlips have the name Janice?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (07:14)", "body": "speaking of the band members, since we're casting in dual roles, what about Floyd as Denny?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (07:52)", "body": "Re Mr. Elton's resemblance to Darcy: has anyone noticed that the man on the cover of the Emma3 video is Mr. Elton , not Mr. Knightley?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (10:38)", "body": "Digit was a character on the short-lived Muppets show a few years back which took place at a TV station. Digit repaired the equiptment. He was pale with wires coming out of his head and he never spoke."}, {"response": 20, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "thanks for clearing that up for me (I still don't remember him) what about the boomerang fish guy as someone? Anne3, I couldn't figure that one either"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (20:44)", "body": "What about Sam the Eagle as Darcy? Or perhaps Mr. Bennet? Gonzo and Camilla as Mr. and Mrs. Hurst, or actually Lydia and Wickham? Personally, I think Beaker would make a mean Bingly-he always gets tromped on!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (21:41)", "body": "or Kermit and Piggy as Mr/Mrs Bennet but, no, I like Piggy as Caroline - the possibilities for jealousy (v. EB) within the role as well as Piggy's always conniving to try for the lead (v. JE) are too good - we should be excessively diverted!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (22:08)", "body": "Piggy's ahhhhrrrRRRRAAAAHHH with full swing"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (23:35)", "body": "Johanne and Caroline, which is the Wishbone P&P? It isn't P&P0 or P&P1 so I'm lost."}, {"response": 25, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (23:54)", "body": "P&P0 is with Olivier (40's) P&P1 with Rintoul (ugh!) (85ish) P&P2 we love think it could be P&PW"}, {"response": 26, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (00:24)", "body": "P&P1 must be earlier than '85. I first saw it in 1982, and that was on video at school"}, {"response": 27, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (00:38)", "body": "various dates have been reported for this one, some up to 1990 by my video store (I couldn't believe it either)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (16:43)", "body": "P&P1 was made in 1979, first shown in the US in 1985; we colonials had seen it much earlier. It was 'the rest of the world''s objection to the use of P&P 1985 (and P&P 1996 since it was shown in the UK in 1995) which led to the use of numbers instead of years."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (18:00)", "body": "I saw P&P0 on PBS not too long ago. Or I should say part of it. It was pretty silly-the Lydia and Kitty characters were stupid (more so than usual!). It didn't seem as serious an adaptation to me!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (19:53)", "body": "P&P1 was shown in the U.S. much earlier than 1985. I remember discussing it with friends in 1981, and we were recalling a PBS telecast that had occurred some time earlier, perhaps in 1980."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "The Wishbone \"Furst Impressions\" is numbered either P&P3 (half in joke) or P&PW."}, {"response": 32, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (20:23)", "body": "Anne3 -- I concur re the earlier showing of P&P1 (at least on some PBS) stations. I saw it in 1979 or 1980 when I lived in the Boston area. I remember wishing that I had a VCR so that I could have taped it -- I found it quite wonderful at the time, though it pales in comparison to P&P2 (and what doesn't?!). I do wonder when/if another adaptation gets made -- do you think there could be a P&P3 Support Group formed about 20 years from now? :-)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (01:52)", "body": "Very much depends on which 10 year old aspiring actor gets to play Darcy in 20 years time, I would think..."}, {"response": 34, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (21:05)", "body": "Very much depends on which 10 year old aspiring actor gets to play Darcy in 20 years time, I would think... This has been bouncing around in my head for a couple of weeks now, what with my having a 10-year-old son. He and his friends are in such an incredibly goofy, silly, early-potty-mouth/bathroom-humor stage! I know they're going to go through major life-altering changes in the next 10, but it got me wondering... Do you think our CF was ever a 10-year-old boy?! Horrors!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "According to his own interview accounts, as a child he was scruffy, cocky, precocious, and TROUBLE!!;-)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (13:26)", "body": "Why does this not surprise me :) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 167, "subject": "Favorite music  - we love to hear", "response_count": 49, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (00:12)", "body": "I'm to young to be a flower child of the sixties (but always wanted to be one) so as an 70/80's/90's one, my favorite urbane folk singer is none other than Billy Bragg. You may like him for his politics or his song writing, none-the-less he's a brilliant lyricist and a very funny guy. Every show I've seen I've enjoyed - his music, his lyrics and his humour and down-to-earth realism :) \"Harsh words between bride and groom the distance is greater each day he smokes alone in the next room and she knits her life away\" \"You know why girls get their belly-buttons pierced, don't you? Because they can't grow goatees.\" Thoroughly entertaining and intelligent, Bragg is a breath of fresh air in a grunge world of shallow, substanceless music. - Karen Pace's review of Billy Bragg at The Horeseshoe, Toronto. September 22 1996."}, {"response": 2, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (00:27)", "body": "Yes yes love Billy Bragg. I like the way he sings in his own accent, not in American like many non-American singers. I like his interesting lyrics, and his political opinioins and the way he's not reluctant to be critical of the establishment and his understanding of the relationships between people and... One of my favourites is \"Valentines Day is over\""}, {"response": 3, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (00:35)", "body": "So let's indulge in this and pray others to bare with us this passion : Valentine's Day Is Over Some day boy you'll reap what you've down You'll catch a cold and you'll be on your own And you will see that what's wrong with me Is wrong with everyone that You want to play your little games on Poetry and flowers pretty words and threats You've gone to the dogs again and I'm not placing bets On you coming home tonight anything but blind If you take me for granted then you must expect to find Surprise, surprise Valentine's Day is over, it's over Valentine's Day is over If you want to talk about it well you know where the phone is Don't come round reminding me again how brittle bone is God didn't make you angel the Devil made you a man That brutality and the economy are related now I understand When will you realize that as above so below there is no love For the girl with hour glass figure Time runs out very fast We used to want the same things But that's all in the past And lately it seems that as it all gets tougher Your ideal of justice just becomes rougher and rougher Thank you for the things you bought me thank you for the card Thank you for the things you taught me when you hit me hard That love between two people must be based on understanding Until that's true you'll find your things All stacked out on the landing surprise, surprise And this is the classic one of all and one of many favorites : Waiting For the Great Leap Forwards It may have been Camelot for Jack and Jacqueline But on the Che Guevara highway filling up with gasoline Fidel Castro's brother spies a rich lady who's crying Over luxury's disappointment So he walks over and he's trying To sympathize with her but thinks that he should warn her That the Third World is just around the corner In the Soviet Union a scientist is blinded By the resumption of nuclear testing and he is reminded That Dr Robert Oppenheimer's optimism fell At the first hurdle In the Cheese Pavilion and the only noise I hear Is the sound of people stacking chairs And mopping up spilt beer And someone asking questions and basking in the light Of the fifteen fame filled minutes of the fanzine writer Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses While looking down the corridor Out to where the van is waiting I'm looking for the Great Leap Forwards Jumble sales are organized and pamphlets have been posted Even after closing time there's still parties to be hosted You can be active with the activists Or sleep in with the sleepers While you're waiting for the Great Leap Forwards One leap forwards, two leaps back Will politics get me the sack? Here comes the future and you can't run from it If you've got a blacklist I want to be on it It's a mighty long way down rock 'n roll From Top of the Pops to drawing the dole If no one seems to understands Start your own revolution, cut out the middleman In a perfect world we'd all sing in tune But this is reality so give me some room So join the struggle while you may The Revolution is just a t-shirt away"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (01:09)", "body": "How 'bout Sexuality ? ;) My personal favorites: The Beatles, The Cure, Pet Shop Boys, Bryan Ferry/Roxy Music, Duran Duran, The Cardigans, Level 42, Dave Matthews Band, INXS, Bing, Glenn Miller, Patti Page, Mozart, The Russian Romantics, anything Baroque, Franz Lehar (The Merry Widow)....the list goes on and on...I'm very fond of several alternative flashes in the pan, which I probably shouldn't even mention...;)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (01:10)", "body": "Oh...and I love EVITA! Great music..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (05:55)", "body": "Great topic idea, Johanne. The Bragg lyrics you posted: \"Harsh words between bride and groom the distance is greater each day he smokes alone in the next room and she knits her life away\" Reminded me very much of a Paul Simon song, The Dangling Conversation: And you read your Emiily Dickenson And I my Robert Frost And we note our place with bookmarkers That measure what we've lost"}, {"response": 7, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (08:12)", "body": "OK my favourites other than Billy Bragg are Annie Lenox (and the Eurythmics) Enya, Indigo Girls, Suzanne Vega For the Australians out there Paul Kelly, Deborah Conway (It's only the beginning - one of the best love songs ever), Midnight Oil, Tiddas (excellent aboriginal women's group - those harmonies!!) And Wolfgang Amadeus of course (the clarinet concerto - music of the gods)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "I like music from the '60's--British invasion, beach, folk, soul, and being from the Detroit area--MOTOWN Every year I catch the Temps and the Tops concert--Levi Stubbs can still belt out a song. Also catch Peter, Paul & Mary every year. Below is a song Paul Stookey wrote about the internet. VIRTUAL PARTY (see_you@party.net) (Noel Paul Stookey) copyright/neworld media music 1995 It's 11 o'clock in the evening - I'm barefoot - And I'm logged-on to the INTERNET. I usually pickup my e-mail in the afternoon But on weekends sometimes I forget... I yell down the hall to the bedroom, \"Honey, I'll be right there...\" she says \"that's ok, dear, I got a brand new book here and I'm not going anywhere\". A 'funny thing about a couple when a couple of years've gone by. You don't talk; you think you know each other so well you don't have to try... you take for granted what you used to called enchanted just a while ago... when does a mystery turn into history? I don't know... Anyway, I got another MEG of data coming down the line; wall street profile...spreadsheet from a friend of mine... when up on the screen pops a little green box that says 'click on me'. Somewhere I swear Alice in Wonderland's callin'... I look at the clock (not as late as I thought: maybe quarter to one). 'Download's finished, I could take five minutes and have me some fun. The invitation's from a web location in Hong Kong. Already started, this virtual party runs all night long! All night? You're invited to a virtual party tonight... You're invited to a virtual party tonight... (instrumental break) Computers in the automobile, computers in the microwave, computers in the phone. And even my wife who used to tell me to 'get a life' has got a computer of her own. I spend so much time saving time I can't find any time to spend ... I've taped sixteen episodes of \"Star Trek\" but when am I gonna show them?! Un-believable, must be sixty, seventy people at the party site. Icons, Avatars, Images of Movie Stars surfing tonight... I'm looking for a chat when I get a note that says 'ya wanna go...to a place real private? I guarantee you'll like it...' I say 'I...yi...' She says her name is 'Mata Hari' and that she's particularly fond of older men... Maybe so, maybe not, maybe she's a guy who's got this urge to pretend... And then it occurs to me, I don't need this fantasy... after all, everything I'd be looking for, I've got and even more, sleeping at the end of the hall... I shut down the box, still it's two o'clock by the time I get to bed... I lift up the covers; snuggle next to my lover; find a note there instead... it says \"the book was dumb, logged on, found a message from Hong Kong... about a virtual party (think I'll go as 'mata hari') may be all night long...\" I say all night? You're invited to a virtual party tonight... You're invited to a virtual party tonight... Going to a virtual party tonight... (ready or not here comes the 21st century) Going to a virtual party tonight..."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "Carolyn! I want to hear that song. Thank you. It not only ties into the relationshit(p) ennui we were talking about but speaks to this other obsession of ours. I love it."}, {"response": 10, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (13:56)", "body": "That does sound like a cool song. Where can we hear it?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (14:27)", "body": "Like the Billy Bragg and Paul Stookey! Always felt I should get to hear more Billy Bragg. Amy, do we share a liking of Paul Simon as well as Van Morrison?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (15:49)", "body": "I guess so, Hil. Not surprised...."}, {"response": 13, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (15:54)", "body": "FAvorites: Classical: Rachmanioff(especially piano concerto no. 2), Mozart, Debussy, Chopin..I love opera too-Puccini, Verdi, Bizet....Placido Domingo rules! And KAli-ditto on Lehar(love the Merry Widow) and Die Fleidermas too. And INXS & Duran Duran-Sigh( I fell in love with Simon Le bon after seeing the reflex video)Also, Love Bing and Miller-love big band music. As well: Gershwin, Cole Porter, Andrew Lloyd Webber(ESpecially Sunset Boulevard), Garland, Billie Holliday(I wish I sounded like her), Ella Fitzgerald, Sinatra, the Beatles, Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Edith Piaf..... Anyone like Take that? My sister got me into them-great for exercising. Like oasis too. In the past, Corey hart-still have my sunglasses at night."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (16:24)", "body": "Virtual Party is on the Lifelines Live album/cd (whatever)."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "I love the pop/Broadway immortals of the 20s, 30s & 40s: Gershwin, Porter, Berlin, Kern, Rodgers. Nobody writes like that any more. Anyone else love the Weavers, the great folk group of the 50s and 60s?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (20:56)", "body": "ditto on the Mozart, PP&M, Paul Simon, and add James Taylor, Fogelberg, Spyrogyra, esp. baroque brass, Grogorian chant stuff, Taco Bell's Canon, the Nat/Nat. Cole duets, Take6, Linda Ronstadt,..."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (22:44)", "body": "Folk music.English/scots/Irish/Welsh/Breton/CapeBreton/Cajun/Acadian/Australian and Pacific.Toomany individual artists to list but what is in my car rightnow is Enya, Loreeta McKennit, Gordon Lightfoot, The Barra McNeils, Dan Gibson Stuff, Queen (YES! Queen) Bryan Adams. At home on the CD- Bach, Beethoven, Handel, Opera selections, Holst, Gregorian chants, Billy Joel"}, {"response": 18, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Feb 20, 1997 (23:12)", "body": "OK -- over at \"drooling\" I posted a different list, but this one will start with the same person --- Jackson Browne!!!! My other favorites are: The Roches, Kate & Anna McGaragle, Maria Muldaur, Emmylou Harris, my P&P & S&S CD's, and of course I couldn't possibly leave out the best dance band in the greater Sacramento area, Red Rose (my husband's band)."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (00:56)", "body": "Jackson Browne....."}, {"response": 20, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (11:16)", "body": "Amy he beats women"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (14:21)", "body": "One of my favourite CDs right now is Wrecking Ball, by Emmy Lou Harris. Its different from her real country stuff. Another perenial is A Meeting by the River by Ry Cooder and V.M.Bhatt. Its an instrumental meeting of west and east. The Paul Stookey reminds me (in topic only) of the dreadful 'Pina Colada' song."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (14:50)", "body": "Taco Bell's Canon? ROTFLOL!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (15:17)", "body": "]Taco Bell's Canon? I knew Pachelbel had been overcommercialised, but I didn't realise it had gone that far...."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "Amy he beats women __ Impossible. Really Laura. I am flabbergasted."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "Van Morrison How could we have forgotten him over in the Voices drool? Fogelberg \"Once Upon A Time\" is an out-of-character rocker -- excellent! Ry Cooder \"I'll Be There (If You Ever Want Me)\" -- 'nuff said. Amy he beats women __ Impossible. Really Laura. I am flabbergasted. Yep, just ask Darryl Hannah. I love ZZ Top -- anything they do. Sometimes I need that driving rhythm like any addict needs a fix. I think you guys know what I mean, right?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (00:15)", "body": "And of course THE GREATFUL DEAD!!!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (00:18)", "body": "OK -- What did I do wrong? Where's my picture?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (00:22)", "body": "Another try..."}, {"response": 29, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (00:23)", "body": "Rats!!!!!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (00:26)", "body": "Ok Amy -- now I've read the fine print on your tutorial -- One more try for Jerry... And of course THE GREATFUL DEAD!!!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (00:27)", "body": "Well I am exceedingly proud of myself!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (00:57)", "body": "I'll put out a press release."}, {"response": 33, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (14:33)", "body": "Kali, HELP I am such a simpleton. I am ever so slowly catching on, but ROTFlol??? I feel sooooo stupid help"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (16:04)", "body": "Cindy, you are not stupid, just learning a new lnguage. Roll On Floor Laughing Out Loud! Took me a while too, and I was too proud to ask."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (02:39)", "body": "I finally broke down and asked one day...the worst thing they did was LOL me! ;) Some others: LOL = Laugh Out Loud ROTFLOLAN = Rolling On The Floor Laughing Out Loud and Attaining Nose (when you're drinking something and you snort at just the wrong moment...) IMHO, IMO = In My Humble Opinion, In My Opinion (I just figured this out in the last few weeks...!)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (08:24)", "body": "Oh, I had assumed it was Honest. which, of course, leads to a problem distinguishing between the opinion and the honest opinion. immediately after I asked, I thought I had it figured (wrongly, I suppose) to be Right On, Too Funny, LOL but, indeed, I prefer rolling on the floor to my brilliant presumption thanks, everybody for all the help"}, {"response": 37, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (08:27)", "body": "Hey, the time stamp on that last one was right!!! I used to get a 26 minute delay (the Magic 30 Minutes? - nah) even as recently as last night! Does that mean I'm official now?"}, {"response": 38, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "Cindy: I used to get a 26 minute delay (the Magic 30 Minutes? - nah) Ahh, Cindy, we each of us wish for the Magic 30 Minutes, from time to time (I want it all to myself, of course, but the rest of you may share your times!);-)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (19:15)", "body": "Cindy, I have started a new topic,#199. So you can help the others out!;-D"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (04:31)", "body": "I forgot Debussey...Claire de Lune..."}, {"response": 41, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (11:31)", "body": "Debussy's Claire de Lune, love it, any \ufffdrik Satie fans out there?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "Oh Johanne, love to play the Gymnopedies and Gnoissiennes on the piano, some of my favorites!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (12:37)", "body": "Check this Cheryl : Samples of Satie using MP3 or Midifiles: http://www.af.lu.se/~fogwall/samples.html"}, {"response": 44, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (12:38)", "body": "Always pictures Satie with looking at an endless meadows of wildflowers or on a rainy day"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (13:00)", "body": "Thanks ever so much for Satie link Johanne...I simply love his music!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:41)", "body": "I just got the cd of Wynton Marsalis' \"In Gabriel's Garden\" - some really great trumpet playing and it starts with one of my favorites, the music for \"Masterpiece Theatre\" by Mouret, followed by Purcell's Trumpet Voluntary! This music even replaced P&P for one day in the car, but not for longer!!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:37)", "body": "This is somewhat mundane, but I really love Rachmaninoff."}, {"response": 48, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:30)", "body": "Gymnopedies! I love it! One of the girls in our house used to play that piece on our grand piano (vintage 1927 Steinway...this house was very West Egg in a Mediterranean sort of way) late at night...it was a wonderful thing to listen to while you looked out across the deck at the lights of Ess Eff across the Bay..."}, {"response": 49, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (11:20)", "body": "I just bought Nozze di Figaro, and also a really interesting collection of early music called encounters with early music - lots of plainsong and recorders and lutes. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 168, "subject": "P&P Music Revisited", "response_count": 32, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (09:24)", "body": "Such a timely topic as I am listeneing to my P&P CD right now. I love it just so much."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (09:41)", "body": "You get to listen to your own tunes at work, Roar? Nice job indeed!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (11:13)", "body": "I'm soooo lucky. I listen to all my classical CD's at work. I brought in my own player as the CD on the PC crashes my system. I love to listen to P&P especially when I type because I type to the music. It this flow thing, plus I have always typed very fast. I was clocked at 90 wpm once. Never achieved that again. I always wondered my errors were. They didn't even check. Well to get back to music. I love my P&P CD that sometimes I listen to it all day. Well about to put in the NEW WORLD SYMPHONY another big favorites of mine. You just have to love the passion in DVORAK. OOH just like Austen all that PASSION!!!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (14:36)", "body": "Thanks Amy for posting that very long and interesting bit from Austen -L. As I said in Help I nearly fell out of my seat when Cherubino started singing LIZZY'S song - it was nice to hear the whole thing. BTW, I found a wav-file of the WHOLE of the Mr Beveridge's Maggot at the FoF site. I wish I could do those links... I will be brave, post this and try and work out how to do it."}, {"response": 5, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (14:51)", "body": "I don't think this is a link, but at least it's an address... http://www.ualberta.ca/~marilyn/wav.html"}, {"response": 6, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "Kate, the link worked all the way through! Well done, indeed. However, I figured that I was going to have to wait until the byte-head of the family, my dearest hubby, got home in order to play it, since nothing happened. Then, out of the blue, as I'm browsing other topics, Darcy tells me how much he admires and loves me. This random play feature - maybe I like it better this way!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (19:40)", "body": "This thread is very timely for me...I just purchased my Carl Davis CD a week ago...I may have to buy another....I am near to wearing it out already! My whole family loves it...everyone says...it is so soothing! I must agree with Dougs assessment of not appreciating Mr. Davis' contribution to P&P until I listened to the soundtrack and could feel the personalities of those involved in each scene each piece was written for....delightful music!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "lindal", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 1997 (20:08)", "body": "Laura--me too. I love the P&P CD. And Dvorak!! Have you ever listened to any of Mozart's quintettes? I listen to them as I read the posts here. They're very reminiscent of the music in P&P2."}, {"response": 9, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (02:37)", "body": "Cindy: This random play feature - maybe I like it better this way! Not really random play - it just took that long for the sound file to download to your browser so it could play it. But I was astonished at how quickly the Maggot played! It began almost instantly and went on at great length! Must be something about the .midi format. Mac people, the site purports to divide the sound files into PC and Mac, however, though there are only 2 entries listed in the Mac section, any of the files in the PC section that were created as Windows.wav files will play in your netscape browser if you have the Live Audio plug-in installed. (It comes with Netsacpe 3.0) (And the PC section is where the Maggot is to be found.)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Feb 22, 1997 (22:23)", "body": "Just a reminder of how the P&P2 obsession passes through the generations: My 10-year-old son, who spent last evening watching StarWars in preparation to see Empire at a birthday today, was wrapping his friend's gift (some StarWars toy or other) this morning humming to himself as he did so NOT the Williams soundtrack music, but some of the Davis incidental scene music. I love this boy!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (09:43)", "body": "Cindy...I too have had a similar experience....my 15 year old daughter who rolls her eyes every time she walks into the room seeing P&P on the telly...said \"Play that again mom! It is very soothing...I like it...and yes, I know it is from your Pride & Prejudice...but I still like it!\" I saw a tiny breakthru....she still gives me hope she will discover the beauty of P&P...or at least of Darcy!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (18:49)", "body": "I just got my CD today! I just got my CD today! ...and the clerk says, \"So, is it any good?!\""}, {"response": 13, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (10:14)", "body": "and did you tell the clerk that this CD should have won all the grammies."}, {"response": 14, "author": "publish", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (17:41)", "body": "I have not been able to get a copy of the CD of P&P yet. I am going to special order for \"The Wall\". They have it listed but not on hand! Can't wait to get it!!!!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "obviously, the clerk was not worthy"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (21:17)", "body": "I got my copy today! Worth the money!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "TENNSEP", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (16:36)", "body": "My copy of P&P is on backorder, hope to get it next week. I did happen to purchase the CD called THE JANE AUSTIN COMPANION at Tower Records. It's a mix of various classical artists popular during her time. It's SSOOOO wonderful!!! I highly encourage you to buy it. Nimbus Records puts it out."}, {"response": 18, "author": "publish", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (16:03)", "body": "Well I got my copy of the P&P soundtrack and it is better than I thought it would be. You can actually picture the screens when the music plays. I also got my copy of the book The Making of P&P. I would highly recommend it. The pictures are great, especially the pictures of all the cast as they really are."}, {"response": 19, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (21:41)", "body": "I've looked at my local record store but they don't have it. Is there a place on the internet where I could buy it from?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "Lisa, try the merchandise section of Firth FAQ, which is linked from our FAQ. I am pretty sure she has an address there for All the Best CDs. Or try, I'm pretty sure it is: www.abcds.com"}, {"response": 21, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (13:09)", "body": "That's where I got mine..."}, {"response": 22, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (13:30)", "body": "Thanks for the help Amy. I just put in my order with ABCD's and hope to receive it soon."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:42)", "body": "I had a question in email. Can anybody help Ann Marie? _____ Hi Amy, I was wondering if you could help me. I'm trying to find out the names of all the fortepiano pieces in the P&P2 series. I did find a listing on the Colin Firth FAQ, and I found Doug Short's post on AUSTEN-L (Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996/Subject: The Music of P&P2) to be quite informative. Unfortunately, both of those sources do not mention the one piece of music I am particularly interested in. It is the piece Georgiana plays at Pemberley after Elizabeth has left for Longbourne. (It's the scene where Caroline Bingley tells Mr. Darcy she hopes he is not pining for the loss of Miss Eliza Bennet. Then Mr. Darcy says, \"What--excuse me,\" and leaves the room.) This scene has been omitted from the A&E broadcast, so I think a lot of people haven't even seen it. Do you happen to know the name of that particular piece, or where I might find that information. Thanks in advance for your help. Ann Marie"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (20:30)", "body": "Isn't it one of the theme songs of the show and therefore written specifically for P&P2? I don't pay much attention to the music so I'm not sure, but it sounds like the love theme to me (going by memory here)."}, {"response": 25, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:24)", "body": "No - it is something from the period - I do remember someone on the old BBS identifying it, but can't remember what it was. :-("}, {"response": 26, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (15:28)", "body": "I agree with joan, but am equally at loss on the name. Would not a search in our archives do the trick?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "sandysearing", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "As a musician, I find that my opinion of a movie is greatly influenced by the quality of the soundtrack. Over the past 15 years, the trend seems to be to use period music whenever possible, and even when the music is newly composed, to bring a feeling of authenticity to the composition. There is a very classical feeling to the music of P&P2, which, to me, just heightens the overall quality of the film. A&E does an excellent job with their music in general; much better than BBC. The music for Jane Eyre and P&P is pretty dismal. A lot of it, especially the music for JE, sounds like bad Stravinsky. Too much oboe - just doesn't fit the story."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "I agree,the music in the BBC versions of Jane Eyre and P&P were very dismal.That is why I didn't like that version of Jane Eyre.Just couldn't get into. Music is a driving force behind any movie. William Hurt might not have been the best choice, but everything else was great. I think I'll watch it again."}, {"response": 29, "author": "sandysearing", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (16:42)", "body": "The best part(musically) of P&P2 was seeing musicians actually playing period instruments. How many people have even seen or heard of a serpent, let alone seen and heard it actually played? That was just great. The music for Emma3 was good although not in the same league."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (17:15)", "body": "I have neither seen a serpent nor heard of one, Sandy. What is it?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "I believe it's the curvy thing shown off in the orchestra for the Netherfield ball. If memory serves, it's a woodwind instrument played with a brass-type mouthpiece. ?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "sandysearing", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "You've got it, Cindy. It uses woodwind fingerings with a brass mouthpiece and sounds like a cross between a trombone, a bassoon, and a foghorn. There are probably only a handful of musicians around today who can play the thing. And he did it quite well. Actually, I think David Munroe and his early music group started the whole movement towards musical authenticity. His group, the Early Music Consort of London provided the soundtrack for the Henry VIII and Elizabeth R series back in the 70s. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 169, "subject": "Glossary/Dictionary", "response_count": 33, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "BTW=By The Way LOL=Laughing Out Loud ROTFLOL=Rolling On The Floor Laughing Out Loud IMO=In My Opinion IMHO=In My Humble Opinion"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 23, 1997 (22:33)", "body": "Good idea, Caroline. I like Kali's innovation to ROTFLOL: ROTFLOLAN = Rolling on the floor laughing out loud, attaining nose (beverage is expelled via that cavity in the act of laughing)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "Carloine, I lifted this explanation from our archives for our new friends; Topic 33 of 200 [austen]: incredibly dumb and stupid questions (for newbies) Response 59 of 74: Mari Topitzes (Mari) * Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (11:03) * 7 lines Susan; here it is. There came into being a topic of discussion, which began with a discussion about clothes, where someone noted that Mr. Firth appeared to vary on whether he \ufffddressed\ufffd left or right.. if you know what I mean. The person had discussed the topic with her husband, who thought that most men always dressed to one side, rather than alternating. There was some discussion of compiling a list of which side Mr. Darcy was dressed to in certain scenes; similar to a list of which dresses Lizzy wore in each scene, but this was never compiled (or, at any rate, never published ;-)\ufffd. ) It was one of our Australian cousins who introduced the term daggy to us, and it was unanimously moved that the topic be thus named. This, madam, is a faithful narrative of all my dealings with the daggy topic. For the truth of this account, you may inquire of Cheryl Sneed, who is familiar with the entire history of all daggy and snogging activities."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (09:38)", "body": "Mari....LOL....great job doing a difficult explanation..... Thank you to all who have contributed....now I don't have to feel like a newbie when I have to ask \"What does that mean?\"...I can come here and be discreet!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (16:24)", "body": "I have a question. I think it's for SusanC, but I'm not sure. What does ITA mean??"}, {"response": 6, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (18:47)", "body": "I Totally Agree? Just one more thing I'd like to know re: \"Daggy\" - Now, are we talking about an adverb which describes how we are when we sink (rise?) to discussing how he's \"dressed\", OR an adjective which describes his special characteristic?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:51)", "body": "Cindy, I have always assumed it to be an adjective. \"Daggily\" I think has been used as an adverb, but I am not sure."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:56)", "body": "#5 Yes, Inko, ITA means I totally agree. I saw it on another board and assumed it was a common usage -- didn't meant to appear elitist, if that's how it seemed."}, {"response": 9, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:16)", "body": "okay, so adj. describing our ramblings, or adj. describing you-know"}, {"response": 10, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (23:01)", "body": "OK, I've been meaning for a week to post something about DAGGY. My etymology of daggy is a bit different to the one you've been using here. I know what the REAL meaning is (not really mentionable - has to do with sheep) , but its used by me and my Aust. friends and family to mean someone/something which is slight scruffy, unfashionable and yet lovable. DAG is used to describe a person, meaning that they are slightly eccentric, odd, perhaps unfashionable or scruffy but loveable all the same. It's kind of an affectionate way of telling someone they're a bit strange. I've never heard it in a context where it has any sexual overtones at all.... but I'm sure it is used differently by different people. I was quite startled to come across it here used in this way - but it's kind of growing on me..."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (23:23)", "body": "Maybe you could bring the new definition back to Australia when you return."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "Ok, for those seeking reliable info about how daggy as we use it came about, I refer you to the old P&P2 BB Archives, linked on the front page. HC has ingeneously arranged the posts by number and alphabetically, so simply scroll down to the D's and you shall find the whole story, from the horses mouth! ;-)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "re 10: Kate, Hilary originally used 'daggy' pretty much as you would. However she applied it to Darcy, esp in the wedding scene, and thus it developed new overtones..."}, {"response": 14, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (21:36)", "body": "]she applied it to Darcy, esp in the wedding scene, and thus it developed new overtones... Thus are new words created. Isn't English a wonderful language?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (22:53)", "body": "It sure is Kate! I expect full credit in the next dictionary!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (23:05)", "body": "It seems that as the topic started out on the subject of Daggy but deteriorated greatly to uh, you know, we originally used the term \"Daggy Thread\" whenever we would refer to this subject -- From there we then seemed to have just shorted it to Daggy."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (16:03)", "body": "\"daggy thread\" was a topic title, way way back when this was first discussed."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (04:35)", "body": "\"Daggy\" has become a part of my everyday vocabulary now (don't worry, Hil, I'm careful with it!)...I forget that most normal Americans have absolutely no clue what it means."}, {"response": 19, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:32)", "body": "isn't it better that way? sense of mystery."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:34)", "body": "Indeed! And it lends me the air of worldliness I've wanted to achieve all my life! ;)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (13:08)", "body": "lends me the air of worldliness Is there such a thing as AG (Abrupt giggle)?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (14:31)", "body": "I like it, Ann2. Anybody remember the song from Mary Poppins, \"I love to laugh\" where Dick Van Dyke explained styles of laughing: \"Some laugh too fast, some only blast, others they twitter like birds\" Funny guy."}, {"response": 23, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (19:26)", "body": "Ann2, I like Abrupt Giggle! More clearly describes my reactions at times!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:16)", "body": "I move that AG should be officially adopted for use on this board.! Agreed?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:37)", "body": "I'll second"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:52)", "body": "Third."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:41)", "body": "AG!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (12:46)", "body": "Should 'doing the Bingley thing' (DTBT, perhaps), be added to the glossary? Definition; ``My ideas flow so rapidly that I have not time to express them -- by which means my posting sometimes convey no ideas at all to my correspondents.''"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "I am all for it. Since it happens to me all the time."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (16:24)", "body": "I'll second that! DTBT will cover lots of spelling mistakes and typos!;-)"}, {"response": 31, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (18:24)", "body": "Mari, I seem to find myself DTBT quite often lately! Fortunately, more than once, one of the kind souls around here has the insight to point out to me what it was that I might have been trying to say. I'll be certain to say three very dull things, indeed, as soon as ever I open my mouth"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:26)", "body": "I'll be certain to say three very dull things, indeed, as soon as ever I open my mouth No, I cannot allow it, Cindy. You are a sparkling conversationalist!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "aw, shucks, Susan (if I knew how to do that BLUSH thing, it would be here) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 17, "subject": "No Bananas", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (14:23)", "body": "Sorry, unknown to me, Saman. Like the line you quote though."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (13:34)", "body": "It was a hoot!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Saman", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (17:23)", "body": "Yeah - I'm loving it, especially Alison Steadman and Stephanie Beacham!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (18:01)", "body": "This is extremely vexing! I wanna \"hoot\""}, {"response": 5, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (19:15)", "body": "How come you get so many good programs from 3 channels when we get cable, satellite, etc. a 100 available channels and close to nothing to watch ? A distinct possibility is the fact of NorthAmerican TV. Always wondered how it is was in other part of the world, not you? Avid curious, pray tell me."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Saman", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (02:44)", "body": "In New Zealand I'm often told by North American friends that we get the worst of their TV - so your comment is rather humorous! I think we have to wait quite a while before we get such programs - P&P2 screened here in September 1996. But the channel which screened it is state-owned and is trying to present a BBC-ish front so they buy those programs - Friday night's standard features are Catherine Cookson adaptations. The other state owned station TV2 focuses primarily on US sitcoms but has competition from a Canadian-owned private station. I guess the short answer is that we may seem to get a lot of good programs but they are well-hidden amongst quite a bit of trash! I shouldn't be so mean really - they've just announced that we get to see Martin Chuzzlewit (sp?), Emma, the Tenant of Wildfell Hall (sp?) and more Catherine Cookson next year - I will have to work very hard at fighting my addiction for costume drama!!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (20:10)", "body": "The irony is that Colin Firth sings that silly \"No Bananas\" song IN THE ENGLISH PATIENT! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 170, "subject": "Emma2", "response_count": 109, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "What a good idea. Emma2 should natutally be part of the Austen Conference and be well presented in Drool too- Without the video release, buying the 3rd Emma novel seemed the most logical thing to tide me over till mid-April - with protraits and photography from the movie of EMMA2 . Fav. scene is definitely when Ms Weston and Emma tries to find out about his feelings for Jane and he looked to obvsiouly uncomfortable - compared toEmma3's \"anyone can tell how highly I regard Jane\" and MS walking away directly after amd looking almost annoyed with Emma and Mrs Weston."}, {"response": 2, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "FINALLY! It's too difficult picking my favorite scene, moment, look, line, reaction shot.....I do love the dance scene though. I melt everytime I think about his whom are you going to dance with? SIgh. I confess that I play my Emma2 CD all the time. It brings back many treasured/happy memories of the film."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (17:26)", "body": "Yes, I see what you mean Cassandra, your very mention of the dance scene brings more 'expressive' looks back to mind.. what a great performance by JN.. so vulnerable, yet masculine and definitely accurate to my idea of Knightley. Oh no.. is this becoming another drool page??"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:20)", "body": "As much as I dearly love Jeremy Northam, let's keep the drool to a dignified minimum, shall we? ;) This is beginning to remind me about the story of old friends who assign numbers to their jokes, punchlines and all. You know, the one where the outsider is listening, puzzled, as these people shout out seemingly random numbers which are met with raucous laughter. Then, when he offers his own random number, they all look at him and say, \"That one was never that funny.\" So, shall we assign Emma2 scenes with numbers, and save ourselves the necessity of having to spell everything out yet again? ;) My votes are cast for the pianoforte scene (the agony, the ecstacy) and the proposal scene ('nuff said)."}, {"response": 5, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (19:41)", "body": "I thought it was 'cause he couldn't tell a joke"}, {"response": 6, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "Agreed. Let's try to keep the drooling over at the Northam topic. We want to catch up to Mr Firth, anyways! But Yes Serena! Vulnerable and masculine-that elusive, endearing combination. You know what I also loved about Emma2: the casting of Sophie Thompson(she should have been nominated for an oscar) and Phyllida Law as the Bates. I loved the scene with Harriet and Emma: \"remember MOTHER- not JANE'S DAY!\" Hysterical! ANd since I never fail to bring up JN: I thought he was brilliant(again the range of expression) sitting between the Bates-the scene when they are admiring Mr Frank Churchill's letter."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 26, 1997 (21:20)", "body": "\"I thought it was 'cause he couldn't tell a joke\" That's what I thought too. The man goes back to his table and asks a friend what went wrong? Why did no one laugh at my joke, they laughed at everyone elses? and the guy says: It's all in how you tell it."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (00:50)", "body": "Different versions, I guess."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (09:14)", "body": "Can anyone remember?? I'm having trouble recalling the scenes in Emma2 - how was Harriet introduced? With Harriet's portrait & \"too tall\" scene, was Knightley present when Elton says he was going to frame the picture? \"Your entire personality is a riddle, Mr Knightley!\" how did that fit? After the archery scene, did Emma have to bounce her nieice to 'regain' friendship with him?? Been watching Emma3 & trying to find redeming qualities in MS's Knightley and now am completely confused."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (09:30)", "body": "You know, my memories of Emma2 are foggy, too. And while we are on the topic, maybe I should make public a confession made in chat to Kali and Cass. I never gave Emma2 a fair chance to win my heart. I saw it once, during its first run and while I was still deep in my P&P2 obsession. I would have been satisfied with nothing that was at all different from P&P2. I'll have a clearer head when the video comes out."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (09:38)", "body": "Amy, glad I'm not alone - but only with memory comment - though I did watch the movie 3 times.. now I wonder why I stopped at 3!! Mid-Apr is still so long off!!..Need some photos in here!!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (10:16)", "body": ""}, {"response": 13, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (10:21)", "body": "I cut and pasted,it is much easier then typing. I am glad it worked."}, {"response": 14, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (11:01)", "body": "Amy : I never gave Emma2 a fair chance to win my heart. I saw it once, during its first run and while I was still deep in my P&P2 obsession. I would have been satisfied with nothing that was at all different from P&P2 Funny you're mentionning this Amy, been watching P&P3 the last 2 days and it's exactly the way I feel about this lastest version. My obsession was to compare it to Emma2 thus extreme dissatisfaction. Mark Strong's Knightley seems now less angry and I can enjoy subtilities I could not before. But the more I see photos and hear about the scenes of Emma2 oh how I cannot wait to see it again, sigh... Missed being here too ;) Now for our eyes : link to the trailer AVI form http://www.miramax.com/media/clips/avi/emma_01.avi or QT http://www.miramax.com/media/clips/mov/emma_01.mov"}, {"response": 15, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (13:02)", "body": "reg. # 9: Serena, to answer your questions: Mr Knightely first met Harriet at Hartfield; remember the scene when Emma introduces Harriet to Mr Elton: \"Emma, I was wondering where you were?\" As for the \"the too tall scene\", I only remember Mr Knightley being present for the actual \"framing scene.\" Mr Woodhouse is there when Elton insists on travelling to London. As for the \"riddle line\"(love Doug Mcgrath), Emma is asking Mr Elton to contribute a riddle for her and Harriet's amusement. This is her playful retort to M Knightley when he asks why he wasn't asked to contribute. Finally, the scene with little Emma-is their \"agree to disagree\" reconciliation after the archery scene: \"come shake hands me with me.\" I loved Jeremy here-you really see Mr Knightley's deep love for Emma, his admiration for the sincere, uncomplicated attention she showers on her niece. Donna-THAnks for the pic. I think I'm going to take up archery!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (13:05)", "body": "And Johanne-thank-you too. The dance scene! SIGH! Will April never come????"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (13:51)", "body": "Her response to the riddle question is: \"Your whole personality is a riddle, Mr. Knightley. I thought you over-qualified.\""}, {"response": 18, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (13:56)", "body": "Mr. Knightley was indeed not there during the \"too tall\" scene, if I recall correctly. He is present, however, while the painting is in the process of creation, which illustrates his general uninthusiasm with the whole Harriet-Elton scheme Emma has dreamed up, and, consequently, the whole painting affair. They are outside, Harriet dressed in her ridiculous Grecian garb, with Emma drawing at her easel. Mr. Elton stands behind it, admiring profusely, while Mr. Knightley skeptically eyes both the pitiful eginnings of the drawing (which, according to Elton, so promisingly and exactly reflect Harriet's features) and the obviousness of Elton's interest in ingratiating Emma. I loved it! --- Amy, thanks for coming out. I don't blame you for feeling as you did. Nothing is so perfectly Austen as P&P2. My question is, however, whether or not Emma would have made as successful a five-hour miniseries as P&P does...P&P is sagalike in its romance. It develops like a soap opera, almost. Emma is more of a nicely-pieced comedy of errors which remains almost entirely unresolved, to us as well as the main character, until the end. Because of this, I wonder if it could truly hold interest and retai the tightness of storyline over several hours as P&P2 did (not to mention the fact that it's 100 pages longer than P&P). While plot detail and aspects of time and chronology are crucical to the story in P&P, Emma seems to be much more conceptually-oriented. Development is important, but its major moments don't HAVE to be marked by specifically-situated events on a timeline (such as Darcy's first proposal and subsequent letter) save for Elton's proposal and Box Hill. As we've seen in P&P0, brevity can lead to erroneous disaster for P&P, while Emma can be - and has been - compacted believably. Perhaps that's why Birtwistle a d Davies decided to cram it into two hours. I don't know much about Emma1, but I would be interested in finding out whether or not it gave any indications as to the potential for long, Post-P&P2 Emma adaptations."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "I thougth the exact term used by McGrath was \"enigma\"... Or did I just dream that up?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (18:43)", "body": "Donna and Johanne - You Beauties!! Thanks for the pics.. now why didn't Mr Knightley ever take a bath.. .. sorry Kali,,I know, wrong conference .. just came out of drool - it's hard to switch modes.. Thanks for the memory perks - I now need a dose of his fabulous voice - think, I'll move over to Kaff's video for now. Keep posting those wonderful scenes!! please.."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (21:50)", "body": "I don't know much about Emma1, but I would be interested in finding out whether or not it gave any indications as to the potential for long, Post-P&P2 Emma adaptations. It fit the bill nicely, IMO, and I recommend it. I watched it again earlier this week just to compare it to Emma3, and I like them both a lot for different reasons. I must admit, however, that you ladies intrigue me with all this talk of Emma2. I don't remember it totally, just that I saw it once and had no burning desire to see it again. Will be giving it another try on video, though."}, {"response": 22, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (22:32)", "body": "Indeed, I happen to like all three Emma adaptations. Emma1 really does cover the story nicely; it is not as cinematically pretty (or complicated), but some of the casting is superb (best Mr Woodhouse, IMO). Come April I shall own all three versions of Emma (plus several copies of the novel, and one audiotape version -- do I appear to be obsessive?). So I can pick and choose, when I am not watching one of the adaptations of the other novels. It is nice to have such choices. :-)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (00:38)", "body": "Choices indeed! I'm right with you, Kathleen (BTW, FATAL INVERSION came today...thanks a million!)...I now have four copies of the novel, an audiotape version, and will have 2 of three adaptations by April (my Emma3 arrived today). I'd also like to order Emma1 sometime this month...cashflow permitting. ;)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (17:37)", "body": "Excuse the ignorance, but an audio-tape (as the name implies) would be \"voices' of which Emma version?? \"Panic, horrors...Or maybe it is plainly read straight from the book by un-familiar voices?? Tell me if I've been missing out on additional fun! Kathleen, I understand the enjoyment of picking the adaptation which suits me at the time and watching it over.. can't be obsession?! Sounds perfectly healthy to most JA addicts... Fatal Inversion is absolutely unheard off where I live - more dumb questions.. Is it anything like carrington? Or do we get more than 2 mins of him?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (19:44)", "body": "] Fatal Inversion is absolutely unheard off where I live - more dumb questions.. Is it anything like carrington? Or do we get more than 2 mins of him? Oh my, yes indeedy. A great deal of JN -- both in minutes and gorgeous body! (If you would like to borrow it, my copy is currently w/ Kali who is to send it on to Winter -- I could ask her to send it to you if you want. email me at kelder@miworld.net with you address if so.)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (20:07)", "body": "Serena, bookserve sells an abridged cassette version of Emma read by Jeremy Northam...;) That's the version I have."}, {"response": 27, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "Kali, read by WHOM?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (01:55)", "body": "JEREMY! JEREMY!! JEREMY!!! Thanks, Cindy. :)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (12:04)", "body": "For those of you who can not wait for the video release, check the movie listings in your town. Emma2 is currently in its second release, which generally means it plays at budget theaters. Here in Minneapolis it is playing in at least four theaters (for about $2.00). I think I'll go see it today. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (12:05)", "body": "Make that:"}, {"response": 31, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (12:45)", "body": "Kali, happy (!) to be of service. Any time! (tho' I was hoping for the one with the bit of goatee)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (12:45)", "body": "I hate you Ann! Just kidding. My sister smugly told me that its playing in Ottawa again at the Mayfair. She wouldn't tell me if she's going to see it or not. She likes to torture me. My favorite time seeing Emma2 was at the Mayfair;,they had a Jane Austen marathon-begining and ending with Emma2, including Persuasion and S&S. JN: twice in one day. What a thought! You know what I wish-that Miramx had released Doug Mcgrath's screenplay, complte of course with delectable, colour photographs from the film!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (12:50)", "body": "Cindy-I am certain she will only be too happy to oblige. JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (18:39)", "body": "I always thought I was living in the wrong country..now I'm bloody sure.. Ann - will you oblige with quotable- quotes, just to refresh my memory - it's all fading..desperately.. with each additional viewing of Emma3. Since I've caught Emma2 thrice while on holidays - anyone think it might be/or still showing in New York in about 2 weeks time..??? Kathleen, thanks for the generous offer of Fatal - I'm tempted but I live in Sushi-land, might be too far out of the way for your video to travel and for Winter to re-direct it to Thanks a bunch!! Will try to pick up a copy when I'm next in the US.."}, {"response": 35, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "Kali, can you give me more detailed info on your coveted cassete tape? Danke."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (03:45)", "body": "It's really cool, and it's like 35 bucks, and it takes forever to get to you...and you can get it from http://www.bookserve.com That what ya had in mind? ;) --- Oh, Kathleen, dearest...I viewed A Fatal Inversion tonight, and I'm still in an ecstatic shock. Bless you! The whole story reminded me of my sorority days, but, alas, we had no beautiful Rufus in the house to make up for the crazies...;)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (03:48)", "body": "Oh, here ya go, Cindy..."}, {"response": 38, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (13:32)", "body": "Everytime I see that picture I get the same reaction. And since this isn't the Northam drool topic, I won't get into particulars. Smile. Like Emma2, repeated viewings never diminish its magic touch!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (13:51)", "body": "Like nobody knew this would become Drooling II? PLEEZE!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:12)", "body": "Kali, that was exactly the info I wanted! Now, can you help more - I don't want to shell out the $ for some mere imposter! I found a 4 cassette set, ISBN: 1885546106. Yes? I am so indebted for the foto!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "ValGal17", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (17:11)", "body": "Oh wow! Jeremy Northam is a much better Mr. Knightly than the guy from Emma3."}, {"response": 42, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (17:19)", "body": "JEREMY NORTHAM IS MR KNIGHTLEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't resist."}, {"response": 43, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "OK all you Emma 2 fans. I haven't bought into this debate cause I've only seen each version once, and that's just not enough to go by. HOWEVER. I have one major objection to Emma 2. It's a little thing really. All the way through the film we get little voice overs of Emma's thoughts - that I can tolerate. But towards the end she starts one such thought \"Dear Diary...\" Now, first of all there is nothing in the book to suggest E was writing a diary Why not just leave it as a voice over. And second, I know nothing about these things, but it seems to me to be a bit anachronistic. I mean, I'm sure young women wrote diaries or journals or whatever in the early 19C, but when did the habit of self-consciously addressing one's diary as a person arise? It seems like a very modern, teenagery thing to do. Any thoughts?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:22)", "body": "You saved me the trouble, Cass."}, {"response": 45, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:46)", "body": "reg. #43: I'm going to try hard to hold my tongue, but you \"major objection\" and \"a little thing really\" seem to contradict each other. As for the \"dear diary\" scene, I thought it was perfectly acceptable/believable way to showcase Emma's thoughts/feelings. I hate repeated, sudden voice-overs in movies-the Age of Innocence comes to mind. It really only works as a device on the stage."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (19:23)", "body": "\"Dear Diary, today I tried not to think of Mr Knightley..I didin't think of him as I prepared the week's food list.. (help me out all you muliple-viewers of Emma2)..plucked the daisies..\" I thought it was only meant as a light touch to Emma's obvious delusions to her own self-control in matters of the heart. This adaption wonderfully captured the humour in the novel. She realised her interference with Harriet's life had ruined her happiness, and in Emma's own way, did suffer greatly. She did hava lively i agination that would have saved her from utter despair. GP brought it out excellently."}, {"response": 47, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (19:58)", "body": "\"This adaptation wonderfully captured the humour in the novel..\" YES!!!! I completely agree. I too thought Emma's delusions and active imagination were well presented/illustrated by the diary scenes. Much more effective than the dreams in Emma3. I especially liked the scene when she's reflecting that if Mr Knightley could only have seen her kindness to the Bates. he would not find fault...Followed by that incredible close-up of Jeremy KNightley kissing her hand! OOH BABY!!!!!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "On a related note, I know the same scene in Emma3 was more faithful to the novel. Mr KNightley doesn't actually kiss her hand before leaving for London. And while it was a perfectly touching and emotion-filled moment in the novel, I thought it translated poorly on film-stifled, awkward. IMO, the same scene in Emma2 and the tears in GP's eyes and of course JN's expressive face were more effective. So, hand-kissing or no hand-kissing???"}, {"response": 49, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (20:40)", "body": "]reg. #43: I'm going to try hard to hold my tongue, but you \"major objection\" and \"a little thing really\" seem to contradict each other. I suppose what I was trying to say in a fairly incoherent and hurried way, was that its the only thing that I found REALLY wrong and yet in the greater scheme of the film it was quite a small thing. Basically saying I really liked the movie, but there was just this one thing which really stood out for me. I don't object to the voiceovers per se - it does give you a real insight into Emma's development. It's just the sudden introduction of \"dear diary\" near the end."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (22:36)", "body": "Jeremy didn't really kiss Gwyneth's hand, either...he just came much closer...the book merely states that Mr Knightley takes the hand, almost as if to kiss it, implying that he never follows through with the bending motion, and then drops it: \"...he took her hand, pressed it, and certainly was on the point of carrying it to his lips - when, from some fancy or another, he suddenly let it go.\" ...So yes, Mark Strong's (in)action is more orthodox, but Jeremy's is not completely wrong...it all depends on how you define \"on the point of\"..."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (22:38)", "body": "Don't worry about it Kate...I understand what you meant...\"Dear Diary\" is a silly thing to write in a journal...and I'm sure that's why McGrath decided to use it! ;)"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (22:54)", "body": "Good point, Kal, re Dear Diary being silly in a good way. Emma was meant to be laughed at in a way that JA never intended us to laugh at other heroines. In the other novels, she only gives us entertainment from the jerks. But it is still a serious story! (Kind of.)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "Of course! Like you said months ago, Amy...Emma is both funny and serious (though not grave) - just like life. Even clowns cry (I'm listening to Pagliacci , can you tell?)..."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (23:24)", "body": "I did hear that. Even from Bloomington. The Berkeley to IU academia nut flavored thought waves must be particularly strong tonight."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (01:34)", "body": "academia nut flavored thought waves Very colorful image, Aim...I love it! ;)"}, {"response": 56, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (16:25)", "body": "You know-I could have SWORN that he did kiss her hand. It's kind of a moot point anyway. For we all know which version I prefer! Maybe I dreamt that he was kissing my hand???"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (01:38)", "body": "Oops Cass, I think I also remember him kissing it. But it was very becoming of him.. that gratified look and then the kiss on her hand. Cannot wait till mid April!! On another note - from the book - what went wrong between Jane and Frank? He had to go suddenly back to Encombe since aunt was ill but when he next appeared in the Strawberry scene, they had a misunderstanding. Did she suspect him to be inclined towards Emma??"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (02:04)", "body": "For the long answer on Frank and Jane from my brain, go to http://www.spring.com/~anneh/kali1.html ;)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (02:05)", "body": "oops, make that link: http://www.spring.com/~anneh/derby/kali1.html"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (02:12)", "body": "KALI.. That was superb. it was enjoyably long. I now believe you - you do not sleep. I now recall, Jane had imposed a limit on her visit to her Aunt's and Grandmother's and it was universally know that she had put that 'deadline' off to accomodate Frank's inaction. It would appear he did want that inheritance more than he loved her!!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "haker", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (13:56)", "body": "Having been the most recent viewer of the film (just on Sunday) I can tell you that Knightley dies indeed kiss Emma's hand."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (02:59)", "body": "Haker, and he does it so graciously too. Are you rubbing this in? Just having seen it recently!!! I cannot stand this wait for it's release in mid April."}, {"response": 63, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (04:24)", "body": "He does? Well, it has been since december...imagine! Mistaking textual detail for something that happens in a movie adaptation! Leonard Maltin would have me hung fromt he ceiling by my THUMBS!!!!! ;) --- Glad you liked it, Serena..."}, {"response": 64, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (15:17)", "body": "It's been way too long. The last time-Oct 30-the JA marathon. I remember every detail-everyone was in grey raincoats. I should have worn blue, but I wore my favorite Emma-esque dress. I'm Gatsby and Rick Blaine! I can't wait to see the \"kiss\" again, the hand and the proposal one. OOH baby! All of the face caressing-the Astaire-Rogers carioca pose. \"You must remember this, a kiss is still a kiss, a sigh is still a sigh. The fundamental things apply as time goes byyyyyyyyy......It's still the same old story. A fight for Love and Glory-a case of do or die.\" I forget the rest."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (15:53)", "body": "The fundamental things apply As time goes by. I own a copy of Casablanca (thoughtful Christmas gift from hubby many years ago), and watch it at least annually. Heavy *SIGH*"}, {"response": 66, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "This was the first song that my husband and I danced to at our wedding -- needless to say, it holds a very tender place in my heart."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (22:25)", "body": "It's one of my dad's favorites."}, {"response": 68, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (22:15)", "body": "Oh fine, Kali -- compare me to a grown up woman's parent, It's not like I don't feel old enough...Ooops, I think that I am as old as your dad. ;-)"}, {"response": 69, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (03:48)", "body": "Me a grown-up woman? That's a snort...! ALso, my dad is a good eleven years older than you are, so fret not!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:38)", "body": "Topic 202 of 219 [austen]: Emma2 Response 53: Kali Pappas (Kali) * Tue, Mar 4, 1997 (23:07) Of course! Like you said months ago, Amy...Emma is both funny and serious (though not grave) - just like life. Even clowns cry (I'm listening to Pagliacci, can you tell?)... My favorite version of Pagliacci is by Spike Jones (\"Seven hours later, we're still in the durn the-ayter\") ;-) Almost up there with Tom Lehrer..."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "You delight in vexing us, don't you, H?"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (00:16)", "body": ""}, {"response": 73, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (00:41)", "body": "It's terrible being torn between Mark Strong and Jeremy Northam!! My loyalty fluctuates so wildly, I'm beginning to suspect something's amiss in my life.. could it be only one month to the release of Emma2? Or are these internet groups taking over my life completely? Or could it just be that I cannot get the current season of X-files on local or cable TV? Donna, well done with that pic. Now I'm back in focus, JN is Mr Knightley and MS does a good job at it!!"}, {"response": 74, "author": "eljo", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (01:41)", "body": "For the fellow Swedes visiting this conference I just want to tell that you should be able to get your hands on Emma2 now. I got the tape yesterday and you can all guess what I was up to last night. And I must agree with the person that said that Jeremy Knightley sure knows how to snog. The tape avalible is the British version and imported to Sweden (so the lack of subtitles is a big bonus)."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (03:44)", "body": "Frailty, thy name is Serena! ;) Indeed, do not say that man forgets sooner than woman...How can you be so fickle? ---"}, {"response": 76, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (03:54)", "body": "But, I saved myself at the end..I declared JN to be Mr Knightley and MS only doing a good job at it!! Please !! Let me back into Emma2.."}, {"response": 77, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:07)", "body": "Okay, I'll let you live...;)"}, {"response": 78, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:09)", "body": "Phew... that was a close shave.. So what's happening on the X-files this season??"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:10)", "body": "No clue...don't watch it much anymore. My tv broke, and I don't have much time anyway...:("}, {"response": 80, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:13)", "body": "Term papers huh?? I'm preparing one for the hubby cos he's so busy doing all sorts of other things at work. What a chore!!"}, {"response": 81, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (11:26)", "body": "The person who said Jeremy Knightley knows how to snog.... Elisabeth-I proudly claim that distinction! Many a times, I sat in the theatre wishing I could magically jump into the screen and beat GP to HIM, like BUster Keaton in Sherlock HOlmes, JR! THE MAN CAN SNOG!!! The KISS is a most elusive and intimate bit of business. Most men don't have a clue how to do it right-far too much groping and python action. BUT, JEREMY KNIGHTLEY...... \"I do not see why your lips do not dare one..It is the divine pilgrimage of the soul to the heart....\""}, {"response": 82, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (11:30)", "body": "Serena-I kinda gave up on the X-files after that silly reincarnation episode with the multiple Mulder close-ups. Tuned in a few weeks ago, though, and it wasn't bad: Scully was sick, Mulder was going nuts(as usual-and so becomingly in a black turtleneck and leather jacket!)and Skinner sold his soul to Cancer Man to save Scully and Mulder."}, {"response": 83, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "Thks Cass, needed that Mulder description to keep going, it's the intense yet witty, single-focused and yet sensitive character of mulder's that keeps me wanting more. Could that have described my dearest Mr Knightley alias JN? Poor Skinner..."}, {"response": 84, "author": "Hollis", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "I have just found this bastion of Emma2 fans and I must say it is a relieve to know I am not the only person who is crazy about this movie. I can finallly admit that I saw this movie 10 times! Thank God for matinees!! Someone mentioned that the video will be out in April, but will we be able to buy it then or is it just in video stores then?"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (18:13)", "body": "Hi, Hollis...I was wondering if any of the Northamlanders would make it over here...:)"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (03:31)", "body": "Boy, it's been quiet in here lately...we wander about aimlessly until those buttmunches over at Miramax give us our damn video. I don't think they quite understand the gravity of the situation...oh, absolute power corrupts absolutely! Give us our movie! Learn to SHARE!!!!"}, {"response": 87, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (05:38)", "body": "Kali -- here's a graphic that you might add to your homepage ;-)"}, {"response": 88, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (05:55)", "body": "If JA only knew how wrong she was!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:51)", "body": "No kidding, Ayelet! Bless you, Henry...:)"}, {"response": 90, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (19:53)", "body": "I too am dying for this video, but will it be $100 when it comes out? Your wonderful pictures are not making it any easier, though everyone!!!! But at least it reminds me of how droolworthy JN is!!! I was having trouble remembering what he looked like!!! Where do you get these pictures?!! I wish there was a theater around here that was playing it!! I'm going to have to go watch something to get this out of my system now!!"}, {"response": 91, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "Do you think I could have used any more exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"}, {"response": 92, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (20:30)", "body": "Might I add one more thing? (yes, it's me again!!!) Is anyone else bugged by Frank's awful hair??!! (more exclamation points! Not sure what's with me today). I just can't stand it. It's just too frizzy. Kate, I agree with you about the \"dear diary\" bit. Why put it in then? I don't mind the voice overs in this though."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (20:38)", "body": "I'm with Kali on the diary thing. It is in there because it is so silly -- so Emma."}, {"response": 94, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (21:36)", "body": "Amy: . . . on the diary thing. It is in there because it is so silly -- so Emma. Ohh, so maybe that explains the prayer, too. Another silly, Emma kind of thing?"}, {"response": 95, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (00:32)", "body": "\"If he can't marry me, Lord, please don't let him marry another. I would be perfectly content if he would just remain single...ALMOST!\" I like how she's looking up, facing on-high...silly, silly, silly!"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (00:34)", "body": "Kali, what are you doing here. There's a party in the drawing room."}, {"response": 97, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (13:16)", "body": "I LOOOOOOOVE the church scene-such an \"EMMA\" moment. I loved that whole sequence-when she tries not to think about Mr KNightley-can't sleep and takes Harriet's portrait down, replacing it with the dog. And of course: \"we really shouldn't keep daisies in the garden. They really are such drab little floweres.\" UGH!!! MIRAMAX IS TOO CRUEL!!!!!!"}, {"response": 98, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (19:20)", "body": "Hi all, back from beautiful Sydney and guess what - I caught the one day re-run of EMMA!!! Couldn't believe my luck, I watched it in Aust. in Nov last year and now again. Anyway, with memories afresh.. that Dear Diary bit did stick out a bit from her previous journal recordings. The church scene was a gem. It showed the way her mind worked and her 'dillusions' pertaining to matters of her own heart. He remain single INDEED!! She could not have continued with him only being single.. oh what a fantastic movie and JN!!!!! what a Knightley. Can anyone tell that I'm on cloud nine again. Yes, Lynn Lamy, Frank's aweful hair."}, {"response": 99, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (18:09)", "body": "Where's everybody????"}, {"response": 100, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (01:05)", "body": "Frank's hair WAS bad...all the more reason for the haircut, though I can't say it did him much good..."}, {"response": 101, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (02:58)", "body": "Strangely enough in Emma2, Frank did not take that day trip for the much required haircut. Could this add to the humour in the movie??"}, {"response": 102, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:30)", "body": "\"Myself creating what I saw...\""}, {"response": 103, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:23)", "body": "Kali, I know that feeling, after reading the novel again I can sometimes swear that that a certain scene took place in the adaptation and then, when I watch for the scene, it's not there. Hope it's not a sign of age catching up.. with me anyway."}, {"response": 104, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (16:59)", "body": "That's two \"continuity\" errors on my part...I need to see this film again! It could be worse, you know - I COULD be confusing the film for the novel! ;)"}, {"response": 105, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (03:23)", "body": "What's the latest on the release date for this video?"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (04:09)", "body": "April 15... --- And hey, it's now official... We won an ACADEMY AWARD!!!! Hats off to Rachel Portman for her moving score, which netted the best Musical or Comedy Score...(I awear, the people who initiated the division of the score awards must have anticipated the existence of TEP...even if it was years in advance!). Kudos also to Ruth Myers, who was nominated for costume design..."}, {"response": 107, "author": "Hollis", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (10:45)", "body": "Hello fellow Emma2 lovers. I have some info. on Frank's hair - it is a wig! You would think they could have done a better job. His own hair was so short from doing \"Trainspotting\" that they had no choice but to give him a wig. Also, according to Mirimax, the April 15 video release will cost approx. $100. This summer the price is suppose to come down. I don't think I can wait that long!! I know I will be the first person in line at my local Blockbuster on April 15 so I can rent Emma2 and watch it over and over and over and over... Questions to you all: do you usually get on line together at some time ? By looking at the postings it looks like you all know when to get on and talk with the others. I would love to join you sometime if I knew when to log on. Can I join your fun? :)"}, {"response": 108, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "Bravo to Rachel Portman!!! She deserved to win. Wonderfully romantic and evocative score. And a classy lady-she thanked Doug McGrath in her acceptance speech. WElcome Hollis. Wow-100 bucks. That's like Persuasion. Have you been to Pemberley?"}, {"response": 109, "author": "Hollis", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (17:02)", "body": "Thanks for the welcome and no, I haven't been to Pemberley. Is this a place I would like to go to? I bought Persuasion the other day for $19.95. I guess the price has finally come down. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 171, "subject": "Knightley - how about his side of the story?", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (01:28)", "body": "I think I can oblige you, Serena...I'll take the pianoforte scene at the Coles'...so watch for it! ;)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (16:48)", "body": "A wonderful scene and quite trying to be in his shoes and from his point of view..am looking forward to it Kali. Still working on how Mr Knightley first 'formally' got to meet Harriet Smith."}, {"response": 3, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (16:56)", "body": "Great Idea, Serena! I'm going to write Mr KNightley's version of the ball and BOx Hill, tying in with the trip to London."}, {"response": 4, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:28)", "body": "Oh, Cass, do hurry"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (00:38)", "body": "Here\ufffds my boring scene, well compared to Boxhill, Coles etc. though I enjoyed trying to figure it out.. ..some days after his return from London .. He walked over to Hartfield one evening. He believed there might be some letters Mr Woodhouse might want to consult him on. He saw Emma on his way into Mr Woodhouse\ufffds study, giving Serle instructions for boiled eggs and gruel to be served at the table that evening. ..later that evening.. ..enters the \"most-come-at-able\" of guests that Emma had arranged for an evening party on her father\ufffds account.. Miss Bates, Mrs Bates, Mrs Goddard and an additional lady Mrs Goddard had requested permission to bring to Harfield that eveining, Harriet Smith. Enters Knightley.. \"Mr Knightley, do join us for dinner, if you have no previous engagement.\" This was accepted without much ceremony and Mr Woodhouse was interrupted from saying anymore, by Miss Bates\ufffd so good to see you, Mr Knightley..what a pleasant group we have here tonight\ufffd Emma, was across the room and intent in conversation with a young lady with regular features and light coloured hair. He knew that face by sight. He had seen her a few times on his grounds walking about during the summer with Mr Martin\ufffds sisters. Mr Robert Martin was a tenant of Mr Knightley . He was respectable, intelligent, a gentleman-farmer who Mr Knightley thought highly of; a steady and sensible man who lived with his mother and two sisters at the Abbey Mill farm. Harriet Smith had visited and stayed with them for many weeks. Mr Martin had spoken of her, in passing, to Mr Knightley as a parlor boarder at Mrs Goddard\ufffds school. He believed there was some ambiguity about her background and whom it was that had placed her there several years back. .. throughout the evening, he noticed how Emma tried to set her new guest at ease and this marked attention raised his curiosity. From all that he saw and heard passing between them, began to realise that this new founded \ufffdintimacy between Emma and Harriet Smith\" might be \ufffda bad thing\ufffd. .. leading up to his conversation with Mrs Weston in chapter five. Help! I'm beginning to believe this stuff.."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (13:48)", "body": "Nice, Serena...I'm still working on the evening at the Coles'...I have a lot of actual schoolwork to do, including my thesis, Roman coin research, and a paper on the Athenian law courts...so please sit tight, 'kay then?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:50)", "body": "Kali, it wears me out just to read about what you're setting out to do -- do you ever sleep?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (02:15)", "body": "Actually, Susan, no. ;} austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 172, "subject": "Thank you everybody & PSA", "response_count": 17, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "Laura - I am glad your sister is doing better. You have had a stressful time. My paryers are with you."}, {"response": 2, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (15:08)", "body": "Laura, I did not know about this, but my prayers are going out for your entire family. God bless all of you, and give you a sense of peace & healing."}, {"response": 3, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (15:08)", "body": "Laura, I did not know about this before, but my prayers are now going out for your entire family. God bless all of you, and give you a sense of peace & healing."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (15:54)", "body": "Laura, I didn't know about this either. I'm glad your sister is all right, and I hope she will continue stable for a long time to come. My thoughts are with you and your family."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (16:00)", "body": "Oh good, I am glad she is out. Laura, would you be interested in working with me on a safety page that has first-person testimonials? My oldest son was hit by a car when he was seven, while walking, and I am quite an evangelist about a few things, too (mostly drivers in a hurry ). There is something about standing on your porch seeing your baby motionless in the middle of the street that sticks with a person."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (17:11)", "body": "Laura, I'm glad to hear your sister is doing better. My prayers will be with you and your family. If I want to see this movie, how should I contact you?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (17:17)", "body": "So glad that your sister is better. I have a friend who has seizures, they can be scary. I am sending up a prayer that she will continue to improve. Linda"}, {"response": 8, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (20:26)", "body": "Laura, my wishes are certainly with you and your family! May He continue to hold you in his arms and comfort you. Amy, I understand what you mean about seeing your child in danger! My pet cause is trying to get dangerous animals out of our neighborhoods. My son has some scars on his scalp, forehead, and psyche from an incident when our neighbor's Rottweiler/pit bull mix decided who would win the boys' touch football (American) game. Luckily, all of his scars have faded as to be so indistinct. We am so thankful for the way it has turned out."}, {"response": 9, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "Laura, it caught me totally by surprise when you first talked about it at our little gattering at the Ritz and frankly wasn't sure if I understood well enough, a few conversion taking place at the same time. I too am very glad she's out of danger and be assure my thoughts are with you. Child safety of any sort is my first priority when I write my day-care newsletter. Would appreciate your comments, any references and links. If I can be of any help as well, do not hesitate to let me know. Our children are much too often the victims and through caring and awareness will we be able to change some things."}, {"response": 10, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (23:10)", "body": "Laura -- I am so glad that your sister is out of danger. My thoughts are with you."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (00:42)", "body": "Great news, Laura."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (05:56)", "body": "Laura, you must have had a dreadful time. I know what it's like to have someone near on hospital and to be in doubt of the outcome.Hope she recovers well."}, {"response": 13, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (07:56)", "body": "Amy I know what you mean, my younger brother was hit by a car when he was 9, luckily the car was not going fast, my mother made a joke that my brother actually walked into the moving car and the car had more damage than my brother. I would definitely help you with your awareness page. I see what happened to my sister and it is totally preventable. My sister is now 26 y.o. and she can no longer work. She probably will never have children because of all the medicine she is on. Well enough of this horrible subject. For those who would like to borrow my tape, my sister has not seen the movie so I promised her first, just email me and I will snail mail it to you. It does have commercials, but just fast forward. This movie was very good."}, {"response": 14, "author": "PaulaLovejoy", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (18:14)", "body": "Very glad to hear the good news! Thanks for letting us know it all came out so well. These things are really scary. One note of hope -- it sounds like new medications are being developed to treat your sister's condition. Even though this one didn't work out, they are probably working on others, and hopefully will find one that may help her more in the future. My brother, who has epilepsy, is now on a new medication that's much better with far fewer side effects than dilantin, which he took for 15 years! All the best, Paula PS: Did you check out our pictures in the Austen Boston area? Cool!!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 1997 (20:18)", "body": "Glad you like it Paula ;)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (08:02)", "body": "I always feel a bit over protective when I make my sons wear their helmets. Many of our neighbors don't feel it necessary. Even my husband and I wear them. Laura, we wish you and your sister well. God Bless"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (03:51)", "body": "Good news, Laura...best wishes and heartfelt prayers for your family and others in the same situation. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 173, "subject": "Darcy's Story's oopses", "response_count": 56, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (00:53)", "body": "I know it's just barely March 1, but let me weigh in here with how very disconcerting I found it to have Hunsford morph into Hunston at odd intervals."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (11:15)", "body": "That was very annoying Myretta, I agree. I thought it would only be in one section of the book, like the spell checker went a little mad at that point or something, but when it came back again later in the book, that excuse went out the window."}, {"response": 3, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (11:36)", "body": "On p 71 and afterwards she refers to Mr Collins as a \"curate\". I'm no expert on the Church of England, but I though a curate was kind of a second level clergyman. Mr Collins refers to Lady C having preferred him to the RECTORY of the parish, which would make him a Rector, wouldn't it? \"Curate\" always seems to imply someone who hasn't got a living of their own. Does any one have any more info on this?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "Ok, here's another. On page 139 (Elizabeth and Mrs Gardiner having tea with Georgiana, Miss B and Mrs H, Miss B makes the catty comment abou the ____shire militia's departure being a great loss to the Bennet family. On page 140, Darcy notices that Miss B has failed to notice how \"Georgiana had been overcome with confusison at the mention of the name of Wickham\" But she hadn't mentioned W's name. In P&P it says that \"In Darcy's presence she dared not mention Wickham's name.\" In P&P2 she does use Wickham's name, presumably to make it perfectly clear to the audience. But in the book, mere mention of his militia unit is enough to make it clear to E, Darcy and Georgiana who she is talking about."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "Your point about the rectory is true, I think. In fact a curate is on the lowest rung of the clergy-ladder (a curate is more or less filling in for the person who actually holds the living, but is either retired or has better things to do (what a way to run a church!)), while a rector is near the top of the ladder. This makes it all the more astonishing that the idiot Collins would have such a position."}, {"response": 6, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (14:51)", "body": "On p. 138, when Darcy & Georgiana invite \"the travellers from Hertfordshire to dine with them at Pemberley the following day.\" It was, of course, an invitation for the day after the next, and the Gardiners were from London not Hertfordshire. At the beginning of the book, Bingley rides \"the mile over to Longbourn,\" from Netherfield, but Elizabeth walks 3 miles when she goes to visit when Jane is ill. Inconsistency, or perhaps Elizabeth merely takes a longer way!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (18:15)", "body": "More, more .. from a lurker awaiting the book's arrival.."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (18:37)", "body": "First: re the Curate vs. Rector question. I think, since Collins was only ordained a few months before, he was still at the lowest rung of the C.of E. ladder - a rector. However, the terms may have been interchangeable. I know that \"priest\" would have been wrong--that would denote Catholic vs. Anglican. Now as to oopses: The most offensive one, to me, was the Hunsford, Hunston one -- really annoying. Another one, equally annoying, is on p. 216, last paragraph in a direct quote from P&P: \"The fact is, that you were sick of civility, of defence (sic), of officious attention.\" \"Defence\" should have been \"deference\". Picky, I know, but when reading a direct quote from the original, it's difficult to overlook! There were other small problems, but I didn't mark them so will have to find them again! Perhaps, more later."}, {"response": 9, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "Here's another. On page 212 it refers ( in those extremely annoying indented italicised paras) to a conversation which Darcy had with Georgiana. In reply to the question whether E is someone D will come to \"more than value\" (quite a cute phrases I think) he recalls saying that that is already the case,, in truth, but as to E's view he is uncertain,... he does not know. Yet when that actual conversation takes place on p.167, in reply to the question whether E is someone he could more than value he simply replies that he does not know - ie she leaves out two statements which he later recalls having said. I don't think this is just a small error, because it really changes the nature of what he has confided in Georgiana, which is why I noticed it. Did he tell her that he already \"more than valued\" E, or did he tell her he didnt know?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (20:17)", "body": "Kate, I hadn't noticed that oops before. My own feeling is that he recalls on P.212 a combination of what he thought and said -- i.e., he thought to himself that she already is more to him, but didn't say it aloud to Georgiana. Does that make sense??"}, {"response": 11, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (22:33)", "body": "Yes, but why recall it as conversation? I mean every other time the author uses indents and italics, she's recalling actual conversation. I think she actually had the longer version, and then edited it on p 167 because she thought it was too direct at that point in the story and forgot to edit p 212. If that's the case it's not the only example of sloppy editing in this book. (ie HUNSTON)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (22:43)", "body": "My book is out on loan, so I don't have a specific reference, but I do have a very clear recollection of the pronouns \"she and I\" or maybe it was \"her and I\" being used as an object. I'm afraid this kind of thing makes me crazy. The editor in me makes it very hard for me to overook these things and enjoy the story. (I have no idea where the editor in me came from, however.)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (00:22)", "body": "Someone mentioned earlier that Aylmer was in desperate need of an editor. There are lots of inconsistencies within the book and with P&P as well as grammatical and spelling errors, which a good editor could have prevented."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (15:54)", "body": "She definitely needed a good editor. I've found more examples of bad grammar, bad editing, just plain lazy English - it does make me crazy reading it. I feel I should have a blue or red pen in my hand while reading. I wonder whether she was in such a rush to publish (and did she self-publish?) that she didn't take the time to check what she'd written. I'm surprised, though, that both Andrew Davies and the curator of Jane Austen's house liked it and didn't mention these errors? Did they see a manuscript or the finished book when it might have been too late? Just idle thoughts!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (16:10)", "body": "It may have been that the compliment from Andrew Davies et al were lifted from a general comment which was more critical?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "Kate: I too was stopped cold by the truncated quote you mentioned, to be repeated later at greater length. There are other more annoying errors throughout the book: \"maybe\" for \"may be,\" etc. I can forgive the \"travelers from Hertforshire\" because the Gardiners DID stop there enroute to pick up Lizzy. Also, has anyone else had this experience? -- when I was growing up, it was perfectly acceptable to say \"Elvis and I\"; in fact, it was considered GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT. Then suddenly, the rules changed and it's now \"Elvis and me.\" Was this just a So Cal thing, or did it affect anyone else? I HATE when rules change midstream! (Like Beijing for Peking). OK, end of rant!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (19:23)", "body": "Amy2 - I'm horrified. When did \"Elvis and I\" change to \"Elvis and me\"? It's just not English. You can't say \"Elvis and me went to dinner\"? I agree, why can't they leave decent grammar alone - let today's kids learn what we learnt. Sorry, I forgot, they probably don't teach grammar anymore! I can understand changing place names more easily - though no less annoying!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "The rules didn't change, it depends upon the context. \"Elvis and I went to dinner.\" But, \"Amy2 and Inko went to dinner with Elvis and me.\" I can't find it right now, but there is a case of incorrect usage; i.e. a grammatical error. I cannot quote the rule, but Myretta describes it in her previous post; subject vs. object. Also, the following sentence on page 176 is grammatically incorrect. \"Their carriage came ahead of the othersof the others, so that there could be no reason for he and Bingley to linger.\""}, {"response": 19, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (06:51)", "body": "- when I was growing up, it was perfectly acceptable to say \"Elvis and I\"; in fact, it was considered GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT. Then suddenly, the rules changed and it's now \"Elvis and me.\" When I was growing up, I was taught that it mattered whether \"Elvis and I\" was the subject or the object. The rules still hold. You wouldn't say \"He gave the book to Elvis and I\" just as you wouldn't say \"He gave to book to I\"."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (08:13)", "body": "Thanks, Myretta. I was taught this also, just could not remember the correct terminology. Today, either it is no longer being taught this way, or people are just careless. I suspect that it is the latter. But, I do not think that the rules have changed, we just hear the incorrect usage so much that it becomes acceptable to some; they do not even realize that it is wrong."}, {"response": 21, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (11:03)", "body": "I think the publishing industry might be to blame in part. Priscilla Presley's book was titled ELVIS AND ME. Now wouldn't you say this is THE SUBJECT? And to my ear, it sounds scurrilous!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (12:14)", "body": "I first found this on news casts. They usually have their grammar correct. The first time I heard the anchor say: \"Please join Mark and me again at 11:00....\" I about died, but it is correct. Where is/was the Darcy discussion? Was it in Pemberly and I missed the whole of it? Nothing to read up on? I had to be out of town and not near my computer all day/"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (12:53)", "body": "Dina, the Darcy's Story discussion is taking place at the More Darcy's Story Topic ...but it seems that the corrections topic is getting more posting traffic! Could it be that we are more emotionally involved in the errors, than in the story itself? Hmmmmmm.......;-)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (15:02)", "body": "I am so amused to hear you all being upset on grammatical errors and it is as if I heard a friend of mine and...hrm me. I have always been most attentive to those matters and am trying to reconsider in later years since I have heard the Secretary of the Svenska Akademien (the ones with the Nobel Prize ;-))and the Chairman of the Swedish Language Care Council (my private translation) both trying to explain that the language is never fixed once and for all. It is spoken by people and they influence how it i used. You can not say 'is there such a word as'.... If someone has said it, then it exists. I am having trouble with this myself, but trying not to be Darcyish when I hear something that I consider grammatically ugly....It is not easy."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (15:11)", "body": "Ann2 - that seems to be the way here (the States), too, to a certain extent. I taught Freshman Comp at the local university, and we were basically told that it was too late to remedy grammar for most of our students; we should focus on content. After all, our mentors said, English is a constantly evolving language.......the only problem was that some of our students had \"evolved\" English to such a degree as to be completely unable to communicate with anyone else! ;-)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (15:24)", "body": "Which then unfortunately leads into something as ridiculous as teaching \"Ebonics.\""}, {"response": 27, "author": "kate", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (15:57)", "body": "I'm not so upset about the grammatical mistakes (though I think its a bit stupid to publish a book which is meant to be Austen-ish and not get your grammar vaguely right) as I am upset about the obvious mistakes and inconsistencies with P&P and within Darcy's Story itself. No, upset is not the right word. I don't really care that much! It just seems to me that there are some really obvious mistakes that any half-decent second reader could have picked up and corrected prior to publication, and that a book that one PAYS for (as opposed to the great stories at the Guild) ought to be a bit more careful with these basic things."}, {"response": 28, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "Since I have not received my copy yet, I want to thank you for this discussion. After reading your comments about P & P, I noticed so much more the second viewing. It makes both reading and viewing far more interesting."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (07:51)", "body": "You have convinced me not to buy the book, ladies.I've got too much more interesting stuff to read, anyway!Thanks for the comments."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (13:51)", "body": "Always thought Elvis had a lot to answer for."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "to be completely unable to communicate with anyone else! ;-) That certainly is a definite drawback, Tracey ! teaching \"Ebonics. What's that Amy2 ? Elvis had a lot to answer for. Do you mean Elvis'just let me be your teddy-bear' ? Hilary. This is hard for me, I want to understand all the fun, especially when it is nice and dry ;-)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (10:57)", "body": "Ann, I'm not sure how to explain Ebonics. Basically, it's a sort of slang spoken by disadvantaged African American kids in the ghetto. There was a movement afoot in Oakland, CA to make this part of the school curriculum; i.e., to teach these kids in their \"language\" of Ebonics. This engendered quite a bit of controversy -- in L.A., there's a strong protest movement against this. And many African Americans of my acquaintance are embarrassed by this and think it's ridiculous."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (14:17)", "body": "By the way, it was voted down. Jessie Jackson and I actually agreed on something (for only a week though, when he decided he could see wisdom in this). Ann, the reason the community thought ebonics was a good idea in the first place, is that it would help these kids learn \"proper\" english easier if they understood \"their\" language first. The drop out rate alone would prove this theory wrong. I know, I know - I shouldn't go there. It is just too ridiculous."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:22)", "body": "I suppose it was well meant... As a matter of fact some reasoning along those lines is being done concerning deaf Swedish kids. Earlier they were not alowed to use their own 'Sign Language' (Know what I mean?)Now it is believed essential to have some emotional way into a person before s/he can learn other things. And their school results have improved greatly .And their self esteem. Grown up deaf people can tell of the cruelty of having to actually sit on their hands in school. To prevent them from talkin to other children. Thanks a lot Amy2 and Dina for taking the trouble to enlighten me."}, {"response": 35, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "I think some of the controversy around this stemmed from the fact that unlike say, Spanish, Ebonics is not a \"real\" language. It's actually more of a patois or slang (like hip hop). I say use whatever works, but it seems to me that if you can't communicate with the mainstream, then you're not going to be able to get a job, ultimately."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (13:30)", "body": "This is no small matter Amy, and in Sweden at least I am afraid that more and more economic considerations are being considered...How much may a child cost Society and are the right teachers available to help 'disadvantaged' children of any kind to get in line (mainstream as you call it) and be able to provide for themselves in the future?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "Somehow I feel that the OT subject line works well here. One question, now hit me if you must, but what does ebonics, Sweden Mr Darcy, Lizzy and Janet Aylmer have in common, absolutely nothing. See where this is going. I enjoy everyones post, but I want more oopses. Not Aks not what you county can du for ya but what ya can do for your freakin country. Laura with tongue firmly in cheek:)"}, {"response": 38, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (01:36)", "body": "OK Laura, well I'm not sure if this is an oops or not. On page 87, Col F comments to Darcy that he has rarely seen him as animated as he was tonight. (ie at dinner etc at Rosings.) Yet, Col Fitzwilliam in P&P seems more surprised about D's lack of animation, Ch 32, towards the end, has Charlotte noting that F laughs at D's stupidity during his vists to the Parsonage which \"proved that he was generally different\" Not exactly the same time and place I know, but it seemed a contrary indication of how Col F views Darcy's behaviour."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (09:07)", "body": "Laura You are right and we should have moved to 'ramble'. Sorry to disappoint you. Have no oops to give as I have not read The Darcy book yet. I like the way you keep your tounge. ;-)"}, {"response": 40, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (09:42)", "body": "More Kate More!!! I love that it just proves that F did suspect that D did have a thing for E. I've got it now. Deduction here. C tells E that D likes her. C also notices that F has taken a fancy to E, Now B likes J and D can't stand C and everyone hates H. Got it? Simple logic."}, {"response": 41, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "Yeah, I suppose I do get a bit lazy with the names. But I never manage to type \"Fitzwilliam\" without making at leas one mistake..."}, {"response": 42, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (10:56)", "body": "OK, Laura, back to \"oopses.\" One line in DARCY'S STORY struck me as strange -- that after Rosings, LIZZY had never been so well entertained in that room (at Rosings) than she ever had before. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the original line in P&P refer to DARCY, or the others in the room? Help!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:11)", "body": "What page Amy?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:57)", "body": "Yeah, I suppose I do get a bit lazy with the names. But I never manage to type \"Fitzwilliam\" without making at leas one mistake... Oh well we're not perfect. actually I was not making fun of you, I find it funny that Austen uses the beginning of the alphabet in P&P. B=Bingley, Bennet C=Caroline D=Darcy E=Elizabeth F=Fitzwilliam G=Georgiana H=Hurst J=Jane L=Louisa etc"}, {"response": 45, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (12:34)", "body": "Please excuse the long post, but this might interest some of you : 26]Which then unfortunately leads into something as ridiculous as teaching Ebonics.\" We experienced something rather similar in the 70's with what is called \"Joual\" the french canadian equivalent of ebonic. I believe it as much more to do with a few caracteristics : trying to distinguish one culture with the different majority, show a sense of pride in one's culture, celebrate of the lowest common demominator's ways of the blue collar worker rather the well-educated few, a concentration of the mass' dignity and honour thus a more social democatia which was epitamized in the 60's and much ore in the 70's (we were kind of late on the revolution). ]slang spoken by disadvantaged African American kids in the ghetto And that's what the (up-nosed) francophone Quebec bourgeoisie called the average kid who talk joual prior to the 60-70's, when education for then mandatory up til 12th grade. The vast uneducated majority cultivated the shame of one's uneasyness to ways of the world, sometimes unaware of what was behond one class system. Discrimination was not only between anglophone and francophone but also between francophone of different education/cultural background. We have to remember that my parents generation had a average of a 3rd elementary schooling (7 for the upper-lower class like my mom). And to some extent, one educating oneself out of the \"slums\" was seen unfavorably, going against his family's values, preferring the ways of the rich instead of \"his\" world. Needless to say that College and Universtiy was for the very few, unless the local Cur\ufffd(curate) or congregation might favor some child. On another level, a majority of people in France still sees our kind of French as unappealingly different if not backward, thus a cultural blockage of our cultural products such as tv programs or movies. This reminds me of the differences between Australian, American and British english, tough there is not as much discrimination, american and australian movies being more favorably embrassed by their British counterparts. And BTW there is many similarities between a FC and African American or an Irish."}, {"response": 46, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (12:38)", "body": "Sorry Laura et al, didn't read your comment before posting and yes it should be in Ramble, along with this one too I guess... Any wizards in here?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "Darcy's Story: \"...do that Miss Bennet gave Darcy the appearance of having never been half so well entertained in that room before.\" P&P \"...that Elizabeth had never been half so well entertained in that room before;...\""}, {"response": 48, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (15:28)", "body": "My oops!! \"... so that Miss Bennet...\""}, {"response": 49, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:20)", "body": "I must be the lawyer in this place - the one who finds all the picky little mistakes. Here's two more. page 132 Darcy, walking with Mr Gardiner at Pemberley, discussing fishing, gets the gardener to point out where there was the most sport. In P&P Darcy points out where there is the most sport, which is better, because it shows he knows his way around his own estate! page 134 Darcy and E. are talking, waiting for her aunt and uncle to walk up. In P&P they talk about where she has been till her aunt walks up. In DS they talk about her travel, and then she repeats that she did not expect him to be there, he expresses his pleasure at the opportunity of renewing the acquaintance and meeting her uncle and aunt. This addition seems a little too much at this point."}, {"response": 50, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (21:08)", "body": "Kate -- I think that Aylmer was trying to imagine WHAT those two would be talking about in the awkward moments before the Gardiners arrived. It's pretty tough, because as JA says in P&P, almost every topic was off limits. I do recall that in P&P, they talked of Matlock & Kent with great intent until the Gardiners finally arrived."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (06:31)", "body": "Kate, do keep it up. This is still so exciting for me.."}, {"response": 52, "author": "lise", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:23)", "body": "By having the gardener show the best places to fish, it gives the impression that Darcy does not fish himself (which he does as we see a little later when Mr. Gardiner comes) or that it is beneath him to show it himself. He is trying to impress on Elizabeth that he is a changed man so it is much better as Jane Austen wrote it."}, {"response": 53, "author": "LaDemoiselle", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:19)", "body": "There is one oops in Darcy's Story that both bothered and made me laugh at the same time-steange reaction for me. It is on page 200.(has anyone seen this?) D and E are walking together after they have reached a mutual understanding. E says ...think of the past as its remembrance gives you pleasure. D, does not want to give her credit for any philosophy of the kind , and says that the contentment rising from their retrospections is not philosophy, but what is much better, of ignoranc . Ignorance? I almost fell off my chair when I read it. I know the original word from JA's novel is not ignorance , but innocence . I wondered if my eyes were blurry and then I read it again and laughed. It sounded alien (I get the feeling that I am starting to know a lot of P&P's book lines...and Langton's script by heart). When you know a text almost by heart and a mistake is made on that text by another, it seems you get this bizarre feeling, and you either laugh or become disturbed by it, or both...What do you think?"}, {"response": 54, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:28)", "body": "Per the notes at the back of one of my copies (Oxoford Illustrated edition, edited by R. W. Chapman): The original was actually \"ignorance,\" but a correction recorded in Cassandra Austen's copy changed it to \"innocence.\" The Oxford Illustrated edition uses \"ignorance.\""}, {"response": 55, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:47)", "body": "JA's original still makes sense, if she's using ignorance in the \"unaware\" sense: Per the American Heritage Dictionary, ignorance is \"the condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.\""}, {"response": 56, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "My penguin copy has ignorance. I always read it as meaning lack of awareness austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 175, "subject": "Favorite non-Austen movies (from 2-24-97)", "response_count": 35, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 1997 (23:58)", "body": "I loved My Cousin Vinny - for using regional differences for humor without 'disrespecting' the individuals."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (00:54)", "body": "My Cousin Vinny Loved that movie! My husband had never heard of it, but got it at the video store when pickings were slim. We laughed and laughed -- Joe Peschi and Marisa Tomei were both great, and the story was really well-done. She won a Best Supporting Actress Oscar for her role."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (12:02)", "body": "I loved Tombstone. I have watched it over and over. I think Val Kilmer should have had best actor Oscar for his excellent potrayal of Doc Holiday."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "I think Val Kilmer should have had best actor Oscar for his excellent potrayal of Doc Holiday. And again I agree -- my favorite scene was when he twirled his tin cup around like a gun in response to another guy's show-off gunplay. Too perfect!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (16:25)", "body": "For the Jean Reno and Patrick Bruel fans, they've done a Francis Veber' comedy together : Le Jaguard. Knowned for his comedies with tandem G\ufffdrard Depardieu and Pierre Richard, Veber chose Reno and Bruel. Reno plays a translator helping an Amazonian who came to plead his case in Paris. The latter a simple-minded day-to-day guy in which the Amazonian finds his prophet who'll save his people. Humor and exotic adventure on the menu."}, {"response": 6, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (16:27)", "body": "now this is a better one :"}, {"response": 7, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (17:35)", "body": "Johanne -- thank you. Jean Reno is one of the few scruffy-looking actors I find really sexy (and I mean really, really sexy!). Another future video purchase, I imagine. (That's assuming it makes it to the US.) Johanne, you are too good to us, you truly are."}, {"response": 8, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (14:29)", "body": "pleasure is all mine, let me assure you, BTW did you know his real name is Juan Moreno R\ufffdno (abr\ufffdg\ufffd), he was born July 30 1948, in Casablanca, Morocco, Espagne (Andalousie). At the age of 12, they left Spain for France. ]] The Jaguar will be released through Gaumont Buena Vista International, so probably Disney/BV will release it in the States ]] he got the role in French Kiss through Kevin Kline, both sharing the same acting teacher in New York ]] Brian de Palma wanted him to be part of Mission Impossible after viewing Luc Besson's Le dernier combat ]]Roseanna's Grave is a love Story produced by City Slickers II' Paul Weiland, which should be released between January and March in the US some links : http://www.ltm.com/dinan/Leon/html/leon300.html http://www.info2000.net/~rocket/pro.htm http://www.missionimpossible.com/a/02-08-nof.shtml here is his filmography : 1978/79 L'HYPOTHESE DU TABLEAU VOLE de Raoul Ruiz 1979 CLAIR DE FEMME de Costa Gavras 1980 VOULEZ-VOUS UN BEBE NOBEL de Robert Pouret 1981 LES BIDASSES AUX GRANDES MANOEUVRES de Rapha\ufffdl Delpard 1980/81 NOUS NE SOMMES PAS DES ANGES de Michel Lang 1981/82 LA PASSANTE DU SANS SOUCIS de Jacques Rouffio 1982 LE DERNIER COMBAT de Luc Besson 1982 SIGNES EXT\ufffdRIEURS DE RICHESSE de Jacques Monnet 1984 NOTRE HISTOIRE de Bertrand Blier 1985 SUBWAY de Luc Besson 1986 I LOVE YOU de Marco Ferreri 1987 LE GRAND BLEU de Luc Besson 1989 NIKITA de Luc Besson 1990 L'HOMME AU MASQUE D'OR d'Eric Duret 1990 L'OPERATION CORNED BEEF de Jean-Marie Poir\ufffd 1991 LOULOU GRAFFITI de Christian le Jal\ufffd 1992 LES VISITEURS de Jean-Marie Poir\ufffd 1994 LEON de Luc Besson 1994 LES TRUFFES de Bernard Nauer 1994 FRENCH KISS de Laurence Kasdan 1994 PAR DELA LES NUAGES de Antonioni/Wenders 1995 MISSION IMPOSSIBLE de Brian de Palma 1995 LE JAGUAR de Francis Veber 1996 ROSEANNA'S GRAVE de Paul Welland"}, {"response": 9, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (12:17)", "body": "OOOH JOhanne! Thank-you. Patrick Bruel-I'm going to have to see that one! Does anyone like the Claude Lelouch classic, Un Homme et une Femme, Man and a Woman with Anouk Aimee. Everytime I see that film, I hear that catchy, title tune in my head for weeks. I liked the recent Les Miserables too with Jean Paul Belmondo."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "I liked the recent Les Miserables too with Jean Paul Belmondo. Liked is not strong enough a word. I was gobsmacked when I wasn't laughing fit to bust.Especially loved the scenes with the letter-writing M.Tour-Eiffel and the young priest.And I wanted to throw something very hard at that rotten farmer."}, {"response": 11, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (14:12)", "body": "and the equal sequel : Un home et une femme, vingt ans d\ufffdj\ufffd also wonderful all sooooo wonderful"}, {"response": 12, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (14:18)", "body": "BTW their is Balzac's Cousin Bette in the making, an american production went shooting near Bordeaux, Jessica Lange/Bette Elisabeth Shue/Jenny Cadine Aden Young as mentionned on Fox UK : Oscar-winning actress Jessica Lange stars with Oscar-nominee Elizabeth Shue in Fox's COUSIN BETTE, a spicy, sexy comedy of manners based on the Honore de Balzac novel. Bob Hoskins and Hugh Laurie co-star as other members of the aristocratic Hulot family embarking on a trail of adultery and fortune-hunting through 1840's French society. COUSIN BETTE marks Des McAnuff feature directing debut after winning a Tony award for 'The Who's Tommy' on Broadway."}, {"response": 13, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "Anybody interested in arts films, check this : http://www.buzzmag.com/ISSUE32/industry32.html"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Becks", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (00:32)", "body": "Hugh Laurie? S&S? I hope he is in a comedic role"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:02)", "body": "Hugh Laurie AND Bob Hoskins? Sounds like Blackadder meets Roger Rabbit! Gotta be good!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (09:56)", "body": "I just wanted to add that my all-time favorite movie is Dr. Zhivago. It was on Encore or Bravo last week, so know I finally have a taped copy. I still remember watching for the first time - another two nights, simply vexing. I watched it with my dad, which in itself was unusual. He then got me a copy of the book and I have been in love with Uri ever since. But I must admit, this last viewing I kept thinking this would be a perfect role for our favorite Brit!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:39)", "body": "Your favorite Brit being...? ;)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "Kali, You smart-alec. Is there any other? This is becoming a little scary - I'm more obsessed than I thought. I always thought no one could come close to Omar Sharif. Then, I'm snuggled on the couch with the same stupid smile on my face that I always have, then it hits me, CF would be great in this role. After that thought, I shut myself off - the wine was effecting me in ways it never did before!!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (15:19)", "body": "Does anyone share my love for the following foreign films: Babbette's Feast - the definitive food movie. A quiet film about a French refugee in an isolated Danish coastal town, who pays back her friends with the most fabulous feast. Do not view while hungry! The Music Teacher - a somewhat predictable plot, but Jose Van Dam's singing is wonderful. Not to be missed if you like Mozart, Mahler & Shubert. Diva - again an operetic background, but this is quite the thriller. Highly recommended. Jean de Florette (Part I) and Manon of the Spring (Part II). A very intriguing tale about greed and revenge among the French farm set. Has Depardieu as the lead in Part I. See them both; you will enjoy them."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (15:34)", "body": "Anyone who has seen \"Sling Blade\", I have a question to ask. Do you think Carl was born slow, or the product of his traumatic upbringing? I think it was definitely the family life. Such a sad, and touching film."}, {"response": 21, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (16:04)", "body": "Yes Bill, Montand, Depardieu, especially Auteuil as Ugolin were great. Ff you liked JdF and MdS, let me suggest some more from the same novelist, Marcel Pagnol : 1.Chateau de ma mere, Le (1990) (novel) ... aka My Mother's Castle (1990) 2.Gloire de mon pere, La (1990) (novel) ... aka My Father's Glory (1990)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "Bill, actually all films mentioned by you(but one) are among the ones I like to remember,( The Music Teacher is unfamiliar to me)...Had not thought about Diva for years...but it is the one about a young man getting obsessed about an opera singer and following her on tour, without her knowing it?...and he listend to 'Casta Diva' over and over again...such beautiful music. From Babette I recall'Caille au Sarcofage'(spelling Johanne?)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (17:03)", "body": "Yes, Ann. Diva is about the young man who obsesses about the beatiful American Opera star. I've got to get a copy so I can see and again and share it. As for Babette's, there are few people I have envied as much as those lucky few who got to share the lavish feast. About the closest we get is our group of five couples who have been getting together for the last 15 years for a gourmet feast every New Year's Eve. We dress up funny, and each couple prepares a course accompanied by 2 bottles of very good wine. We start at 8 and carouse until 3 am. In between courses we exchange gag gifts we collect during the year. Each year brings anticipation of great pleasure."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "Bill, I also loved Babette's Feast and Diva . Have you seen Big Night , another great food movie? It came out late last year and is still playing at some theaters."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (23:01)", "body": "Yes, I saw Big Night, Anne, and I liked it very much; but its food scenes did not outshine the Babbette Feast. There certainly was much more tension in BN. The surprising thing about BF is how the simple and elegant story line was so riveting."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (01:06)", "body": "I loved The Big Night ! Had to right out and have Italian for dinner! But was longing for the tympano...;-)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "winter", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (03:42)", "body": "i have to say, \"room with a view\" is my all-time favorite movie. it literally was THE movie that changed my life. i rented \"les miserables\" last weekend. excellent film! this is the most recent one, set in WWW2 france. i expected it to be a direct adaption of the novel, only set during the war. to my surprise and amazment, it's les mis. with a twist. anyone ever seen it? i highly recommend it. i have an obsession with british films (ANYTHING mike leigh, EVERY merchant/ivory period piece) and films set in WW2. empire of the sun counts as one of my favorites, along with radio days. (i'm thinking about writing a script about my grandmother's experience during ww2, and her friendship with a WAC (women's army corp) whom she used to shine shoes for. this was during the japanese occupation in the philippines. if i ever block out enough time, i'll write a few sections of it, and hopefully share with yo .)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (05:30)", "body": "That sounds very interesting Winter, hope you'll get around to it... Bill that feast of the year must be something as for the food I can always rely on my Caro sposa who is an excellent chef and who comes down with special offers from time to time. As this is really the film topic I'll mention when we and our close friends watched all three Godfather films during one Sunday and only paused to have different Italian meals, prosciutto, mozarella with tomatoes, saltimbocca...and sweets. We certainly got in the right mood."}, {"response": 29, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (20:23)", "body": "TNT is showing Fiddler on the Roof - another film that I had forgotten how well I like! Another \"ensemble\" film in which writing, performing, music, technical stuff, etc are all equally strong and mesh seamlessly."}, {"response": 30, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "That was my last-year ('95) Christmas gift from my kids! We all sat down and watched one evening. We now all wish we were rich men! :-) Yes, it's probably about time to do that again, too!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (21:50)", "body": "Just rented/watched ET with my kids. My son is glad to be \"in on it\" now. he really appreciated the kid dressed as Yoda for Halloween, thanks to Empire Strikes Back rerelease. My daughter has been a blubbering idiot for a while. Whoa, if I'm a movie weenie, she is definitely weenie-squared! (wonder where she got it?)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "Fiddler on the Roof has been a favorite for a long time -- the soundtrack has got to be one of the best."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (00:00)", "body": "Oh! Fiddler! I start weeping when Teyve sends his daughter off on the train to Kiev and don't stop til 20 minutes after it's over!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Megan", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (01:33)", "body": "I just saw 'Il Postino'. I highly recommend it. It is a beautiful movie. Felt really bad about the death of the actor who played Mario. He did a wonderful job. Definitely worth seeing.... Megan"}, {"response": 35, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "Il Postino : such a gem of a movie :) yes, definitely worth it austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 176, "subject": "Jokes and Funny Stories", "response_count": 64, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 1997 (21:20)", "body": "There's an old lady who's quite distressed over her two female parrots because all they ever say to anyone is :\"Hi! We're prostitutes, do you want to have some fun?\" So she goes to see her parrish priest and asks him if there's anything he can do to help them. He replies:\"I have two male parrots who I've taught to pray all day, to read the bible and to say the rosary. Bring your parrots over to the church and we'll pu t them together. I'm sure my parrots can help cure your parrots.\" The old woman brings her parrots over and places them in the cage with the two male ones. One of the female parrots says:\" Hi! We're prostitutes, do you want to have some fun? One of the male parrots turns to the other one and says: \"Jesus Christ, Frank p ut the bible down, our prayers have been answered!\""}, {"response": 2, "author": "IF", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (03:04)", "body": "Do the stories have to be true or made up?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (06:37)", "body": "Either one is fine."}, {"response": 4, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (10:36)", "body": "I started reading your joke Lisa, while making the mistake of trying to drink some morning coffeee. The coffee landed everywhere! :-) Super LOL. This is a very good idea."}, {"response": 5, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (17:50)", "body": "Thanks Carl, I hope that you have some funny jokes to tell as well."}, {"response": 6, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (20:10)", "body": "A new priest at his first mass was so nervous he could hardly speak. After mass he asked the monsignor how he had done. The monsignor replied, \"When I am worried about getting nervous on the pulpit, I put a glass of vodka next to the water glass. If I sta rt to get nervous, I take a sip.\" So the next Sunday he took the monsignor's advice. At the beginning of the sermon, he got nervous and took a drink. He then proceeded to talk up a storm. Upon return to his office after mass, he found the following note on his door: 1. Sip the Vodka, don't gulp. 2. There are 10 commandments, not 12. 3. There are 12 disciples, not 10. 4. Jesus was consecrated, not constipated. 5. Jacob wagered his donkey, he did not bet his ass. 6. We do not refer to Jesus Christ as the late J.C. 7. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not referred to as Daddy, Junior, and Spook. 8. David slew Goliath, he did not kick the shit out of him. 9. When David was hit by a rock and knocked off his donkey, don't say \"He was stoned off his ass.\" 10. We do not refer to the cross as the Big T! 11. When Jesus broke the bread at the Last Supper he said,\"Take this and eat it, for it is my body\", he did not say,\"Eat me.\" 12. The Virgin Mary is not reffered to as the, \"Mary with the Cherry\". 13. The recommended grace before a meal is not:\"Rub-A-dub-dub, thanks for the grub, yeah God\" 14. Next Sunday there will be a taffy-pulling contest at St.Peter's, not a peter-pulling contest at St. Taffy's."}, {"response": 7, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (21:14)", "body": "Here is a story that my grandmother used to like to tell... Two old women meet on the street: Sophie: So Esther, how is your son's marriage? Esther: Tsk, Tsk...Sophie, my daughter-in-law is an absolute witch! She makes my son turn his whole paycheck over to her, makes him baby-sit the children once a week so that she can run around with her girlfriends, and makes him help her with the housew ork. I'm telling you, she's a witch! Sophie: Oh, too bad...and your daughter and her husband? Esther: A saint! My son-in-law is an absolute saint! He turns his whole paycheck over to her, watches the children once a week so that she can go out with her girlfriends, and helps her with the housework. I'm telling you, he is a saint!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (02:35)", "body": "Received the following in my e-mail from a net-friend who retired last year from job with AT&T in Hong Kong: MESSAGE from =HelenMegan@aol.com 04-MAR-97 1:34 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 22:31:52 -0500 (EST) I am beginninging to worry about myself. This confirms it. Thanks to Ron Park in HK HOW TO TELL YOU'RE AN INTERNET JUNKIE 1. You wake up a 3 a.m. to go to the bathroom and stop to check your e-mail on the way back to bed. 2. You get a tattoo that reads \"This body best viewed with Netscape Navigator 1.1 or higher.\" 3. You name your children Eudora, Aol and Dotcom. 4. You turn off your modem and get this awful empty feeling, like you just pulled the plug on a loved one. 5. You spend half of the plane trip with your laptop on your lap...and your child in the overhead compartment. 6. You decide to stay in college for an additional year or two, just for the free Internet access. 7. You laugh at people with 14.4-baud modems. 8. You start using smileys in your snail mail. 9. Your hard drive crashes. You haven't logged in for two hours. You start to twitch. You pick up the phone and manually dial your ISP's access number. You try to hum to communicate with the modem. And you succeed. 10. You find yourself typing \"com\" after every period when using a word processor.com 11. You refer to going to the bathroom as downloading. 12. You start introducing yourself as \"David at I-I-Net dot net dot com\" 13. All of your friends have an @ in their names. 14. Your pet has its own home page. 15. You can't call your mother...she doesn't have a modem. 16. You check your mail. It says \"no new messages.\" So you check it again. 17. Your phone bill comes to your doorstep in a box. 18. You don't know what gender three of your closest friends are, because they have neutral screennames and you never bothered to ask. 19. You move into a new house and decide to Netscape before you landscape. 20. You tell the cap driver you live at http://1000.edison.garden/house/brick.html 21. You start tilting your head sideways to smile."}, {"response": 9, "author": "IF", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (04:26)", "body": "Alright, now here is a true story of my own. About two and a half years ago, summer '95, I went on a school trip with my year. We went for a weekend in Kerry and everyone was excited, including me. Well, one night after dinner we were all left to our own pursuits because the teachers were in the other part of the dinnning room. The staff of the hotel had sealed of our half of the room and we were left to ourselves. Now being the person that I am, I had to go and do something stupid. I was swinging on my chair (which to begin with was not very sturdy) singing with my friends and holding a glass of over dilouted orange. Then it happened. The chair I had been swinging on finally gave way and plummeted to the ground with me on it! Everyone started laughing and me who would have laughed along with, but in this case I did'nt. Instead I was near crying because I realised I had broken the chair annd that I would now be kill d by the teachers. The teachers then came in to see what was all the noise about. Everyone was dissmised except for me and my three best friends who were sitting close to me. My friends stuck up for me and said I had not been swinging on the chair and that the chair gave way beneath for no reasonat all. The teacher accepted this story, though not wihout some doubts and I got away scott free. Now when everyone on that trip talks about Kerry the first thing they remember was me breaking the chair."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "This story is perhaps better suited for Ripley's Believe It Or Not ..... In January, when my father was seriously ill, he was placed in the critical care unit (CCU) at the hospital. Visitation is very limited and everyone waits in the CCU waiting room for the 15 minutes every 3-4 hours that visitation is allowed. After visit ing my father and feeling rather blue (because he clearly wasn't going to make it) I couldn't bear to go back to the crowded CCU waiting room. I went down the hall to the surgical waiting room, found it was nearly empty, and sat down to quietly cry while pretending to read a magazine. The pay telephone on the wall next to me rang. I answered it, expecting to next call out the name of someone in the waiting room. Imagine my surprise when it was my friend Wayne (known him for years and years--he was in o ur wedding). \"Wayne\", I said, \"How on earth did you find me----I'm not even in the right waiting room!\" \"What are you talking about?\" he asked. I explained how impressed I was that he had found me, the pay phone number, everything even though I was in ddifferent waiting room. \"Wait a minute\", he said. \"Aren't you at home?\" \"Come on, Wayne---you must know where I am---after all you did call me!\" It turned out that he thought he had called my house, that he had for some reason dialed the absolutely wrong number, and found me next to that pay phone in the hospital. We were stunned! Surely this could not have been divine intervention---Wayne is basically a heathen. ;-) No-one believes this story and I really can't blame them---I was involved in it a d now 2 months later I scarcely believe it myself!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "mich", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:08)", "body": "Kali, you might like this one. Bill Gates dies in a car accident. He finds himself in purgatory, being sized up by St. Peter. \"Well, Bill, I'm really confused on this call; I'm not sure where to send you. After all, you helped society enormously by putting a computer in almost every home in America, yet you also created that ghastly Windows'95. I'm going to do something I've nev er done before. In your case, I'm going to let you decide whether you want to go to Heaven or Hell.\" Bill replied, \"Well, what's the difference between the two?\" St. Peter: \"I'm willing to let you visit both places briefly, if it will help Your decision.\" Bill: \"Fine, but where should I go first?\" St. Peter: \"I'll leave that up to you.\" \"Okay then,\" said Bill, \"Let's try Hell first.\" So Bill went to Hell. It was a beautiful clean, sandy beach with clear waters and lots of bikini-clad women running around, playing in the Water, laughing, and frolicking about. The sun was shining; the temperature was perfect. Bill was very pleased. \"This is great!\" he told St. Peter. \"If this is hell, I REALLY want to see heaven!\" \"Fine,\" said St. Peter, and off they went. Heaven was a place high in the clouds, with angels drifting about, playing harps and singing. It was nice, but not as enticing as Hell. Bill thought for a minute, and rendered his decision. \"Hmmm. I think I'd prefer Hell,\" he told St. Peter. \"Fine,\" retorted St. Peter, \"as you desire.\" So Bill Gates went to Hell. Two weeks later, St. Peter decided to check on the late billionaire to see how he was doing in Hell. When he got there, he found Bill, shackled to a wall, screaming amongst hot flames in dark caves, being burned and tortured by demons. \"How's everything g oi Bill responded, with his voice filled with anguish and disappointment, \"This is awful! This is nothing like the Hell I visited two weeks ago! I can't believe this is happening! What happened to that other place, with the beautiful beaches, the scantily-Cl ad women playing in the water?\" \"That was a demo,\" replied St. Peter."}, {"response": 12, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:10)", "body": "Margaret, I believe. What a blessing to get an unexpected call at such a time in such a way! How is your father, by the way?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "Katy, thank you for believing. My father died a week later. He was so very ill and in so much pain that it was/is a blessing to believe he has gone to a better place."}, {"response": 14, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (22:27)", "body": "Margaret - I am sorry about your dad - but twice as happy for your unexpected call!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (22:35)", "body": "Here is my funny story - an old one but still funny and embarassing when it happens. My daughter and I have some of our best conversations on the phone in the hour between the time she gets home for school and the time I leave work. She called me yesterday while I was meeting with a co-worker, and I asked her to call back in a few minute s. Two minutes after he left my office, the phone and I WAS SO SURE (!!) it was her I answered: \"Hello, sweetheart\" in my best motherly croon. Of course, it was my co-worker. He gasped, sputtered, laughed and said 'You just made my day!\""}, {"response": 16, "author": "Becks", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (22:42)", "body": "Okay, this is more embarassing than funny. A week ago, I was at uni walking down the hall, when we saw this gorgeous man walking down the hall, that did not look like a student at all. I couldn't help but gawk, and my girlfriends dared me to whistle at him. Being the idiot that I am, I did, and he turned around smiled, and continued walking. I walked into class a couple of hours later and our prof announced that we had editors from different mags to look at our work. So I sat down at this table with my group, and was face-to-face with the man I whistled at! He said \"Hi,\" as I turned bright crimson."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (22:50)", "body": "Oh, Lizzia!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (23:57)", "body": "Surely this could not have been divine intervention. Think again, Margaret -- definitely BELIEVE. My sincere sympathies on the loss of your father. I lost my mother a year and a half ago under similar circumstances. Becks, how embarrassing! Funny how seemingly innocent things come back to haunt you."}, {"response": 19, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (07:51)", "body": "So Rebecca, what happened next???"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "Surely this could not have been divine intervention. Think again, Margaret -- definitely BELIEVE. Oh, Susan, if only you knew Wayne. At his annual Halloween party he always dresses as the devil because it so suits his personality! He has been known to say outrageous things to near strangers (such as 'So, what have you been doing since your parole he aring?', just trying to get an amusing reaction. But, then again, I've always heard that God works in mysterious ways---but never suspected that He had a sense of humor! :-)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (14:43)", "body": "Margaret: But, then again, I've always heard that God works in mysterious ways---but never suspected that He had a sense of humor! :-) Oh honey, count on it! Just look around!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Becks", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (13:23)", "body": "We'll Kate, I said \"Hi\" back, and that's about it, but my girlfriends burst out laughing, and he turned bright red. At the end of the meeting he said \"Nice meeting you,\" but I didn't have the balls to continue the conversation."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (13:29)", "body": "Rebecca, he could have been your personal Darcy! In future, please think of Lizzy as your role model in these trying situations. ;}"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (15:36)", "body": "o o o o o o> o o> o .|. \\|. \\|/ // X \\ | \\ x | /\\ >\\ / \\ / \\ / \\ / \\ / o o o o o ) |= >\\ / \\ >> | \">"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (16:27)", "body": "*groan* ;-p"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (16:33)", "body": "Cheryl, are you still here? Come to Pemberley if you can."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (21:32)", "body": "#24 Amy, Heaven forfend!!!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Becks", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (22:56)", "body": "Mari, I will meet him again. He is coming to our wrap party for the magazine."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (23:09)", "body": "Received in E-mail today - enjoy! --Seinfeldisms... What's with the people who put carpeting on the lid of their toilet seat? What are they thinking -- \"Gosh, if we have a party there may not be enough standing room; I'd better carpet the toilet too.\" What's with this weird hotel custom of leaving a piece of chocolate on the pillow? I awoke thinking my brain had hemorrhaged some sort of fecal matter. Did you ever notice, when you are sitting at a red light, that when the person in front of you pulls up a couple of inches, you are compelled to move up too? Do we really think we are making progress toward our destination? \"Whew, I thought we would be late, but now that I am nine inches closer, I can stop for coffee and a danish!\" Have you ever noticed that the waiter who takes your order is not the one who brings your food anymore? What is THAT about? And which waiter are you tipping, anyway? I think next time I go to a restaurant I'll just say, \"Oh, sorry, I only eat the food. The guy who pays the bill will be along shortly.\" Would somebody please explain to me those signs that say, \"No animals allowed except for Seeing Eye Dogs?\" Who is that sign for? Is it for the dog, or the blind person? Why do people give each other flowers? To celebrate various important occasions, they're killing living creatures? Why restrict it to plants? \"Sweetheart, let's make up. Have this deceased squirrel.\" Can't we just get rid of wine lists? Do we really have to be reminded every time we go out to a nice restaurant that we have no idea what we are doing? Why don't they just give us a trigonometry quiz with the menu? If airline seat cushions are such great flotation devices, why don't you ever see anyone take one to the beach? Why do they call it a \"building\"? It looks like they're finished. Why isn't it a \"built\"? Why is it when you turn on the TV you see ads for telephone companies, and when you turn on the radio you hear ads for TV shows, and when you get put on hold on the phone you hear a radio station? Why is it illegal to park in a handicapped parking space but okay to go the bathroom in a handicapped stall? How come you have to pay someone to rotate your tires? Isn't that the basic idea behind the wheel? Don't they rotate on their own? All the king's HORSES and all the king's men? Are you kidding me? No wonder they couldn't put Humpty together again. Just what did those idiots expect the horses to do, anyway? Isn't it weird that we drink milk, stuff designed to nourish baby cows? How did THAT happen? Did some cattleman once say, \"Oh, man, I can't wait till them calves are done so I can get ME a hit of that stuff.\" Have you ever noticed how they keep improving your laundry detergent, but they still can't get those blue flakes out? Why do we trust them to get our clothes clean? These guys can't even get the DETERGENT white! Did you see these new minivan ads? All they talk about are cup holders, kiddie seats and doors. What kind of advertising is that? When you see an ad for a suit, do they say, \"And look at the zipper! Carefully hidden, but easily accessible when you need it!\" I think not."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (02:02)", "body": "Seinfeld Rules!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (12:02)", "body": "Rebecca, here is some advice for your wrap party, from Jane Austen herself; .. turn to him with an arch smile, and say, ``You mean to frighten me, by coming in all this state to hear me? But I will not be alarmed; there is a stubbornness about me that never can bear to be frightened at the will of others. My courage always rises with every attempt to intimidate me.'' and also... I am particularly unlucky in meeting with a person so well able to expose my real character, in a part of the world where I had hoped to pass myself off with some degree of credit. With such expert advice, how can you fail? When is the wrap party? I expect a full report, complete with all drooling and smirking possibilites italicised or bolded. Sincerely, Auntie Mari"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (15:44)", "body": "Wow! Good advice, Mari. And of course I will give you a full report my dearest (other) Auntie. (Cheryl is my first Auntie)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (21:42)", "body": "Here are some of Moe's replies to Bart Simpson's crank calls. Hey, everybody, I.P. Freeley! Hey, guys, I'm lookin' for a Jacques Strap. Is there an Al Coholic here? Call for Oliver Kloushoff. I wanna Seymour Butts. C'mon, one o' you guys has gotta be Homer Sexual. Hey, has anybody seen Mike Rotch lately? Somebody check the men's room for a Hugh Jass! Come on guys, do I have a Bea O'Problem here? Why can't I find Amanda Hugginkiss? Hey, everybody, put down your glasses. Ivana Tinkle! Aw, settle down. Anita Bath here? All right, fine, fine. Maya Butreeks?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (11:37)", "body": ""}, {"response": 35, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (11:40)", "body": "From: Bruce Guthrie @ nmaa.org Subject: This explains it all! Cultural Differences Explained ============================== Aussies: Dislike being mistaken for Pommies (Brits) when abroad. Canadians: Are rather indignant about being mistaken for Americans when abroad. Americans: Encourage being mistaken for Canadians when abroad. Brits: Can't possibly be mistaken for anyone else when abroad. Aussies: Believe you should look out for your mates. Brits: Believe that you should look out for those people who belong to your club. Americans: Believe that people should look out for & take care of themselves. Canadians: Believe that that's the government's job. Aussies: Are extremely patriotic to their beer. Americans: Are flag-waving, anthem-singing, and obsessively patriotic to the point of blindness. Canadians: Can't agree on the words to their anthem, when they can be bothered to sing them. Brits: Do not sing at all but prefer a large brass band to perform the anthem. Americans: Spend most of their lives glued to the idiot box. Canadians: Don't, but only because they can't get more American channels. Brits: Pay a tax just so they can watch four channels. Aussies: Export all their crappy programs, which no-one there watches, to Britain, where everybody loves them. Americans: Will jabber on incessantly about football, baseball, and basketball. Brits: Will jabber on incessantly about cricket, soccer, and rugby. Canadians: Will jabber on incessantly about hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey, and how they beat the Americans twice, playing baseball. Aussies: Will jabber on incessantly about how they beat the Poms in every sport they play them in. Americans: Spell words differently, but still call it \"English\". Brits: Pronounce their words differently, but still call it \"English\". Canadians: Spell like the Brits, pronounce like Americans. Aussies: Add \"G'day\", \"mate\" and a heavy accent to everything they say in an attempt to get laid. Brits: Shop at home and have goods imported because they live on an island. Aussies: Shop at home and have goods imported because they live on an island. Americans: Cross the southern border for cheap shopping, gas, & liquor in a backwards country. Canadians: Cross the southern border for cheap shopping, gas, & liquor in a backwards country. Americans: Drink weak, pissy-tasting beer. Canadians: Drink strong, pissy-tasting beer. Brits: Drink warm, beery-tasting piss. Aussies: Drink anything with alcohol in it. Americans: Seem to think that poverty & failure are morally suspect. Canadians: Seem to believe that wealth and success are morally suspect. Brits: Seem to believe that wealth, poverty, success, and failure are inherited things. Aussies: Seem to think that none of this matters after several beers."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "HC, your topical and timely contributions continue to slay me -- thanks so much for sharing!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "LOL - especially the beery tasting piss"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (23:16)", "body": "Thanks, HC. LOL, especially at: Aussies: Add \"G'day\", \"mate\" and a heavy accent to everything they say in an attempt to get laid. Works for me!;-)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (19:25)", "body": "Haven't laughs like this for a while....great! HC Love your input"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (09:18)", "body": "On HC\ufffds site, there is a section under \"Jane Austen Jokes\" called \"The Jane Austen Top Ten Song List.\" Some of the tunes include \"Lord, It's Hard to be Humble\" (Darcy), and \"How Do You Solve a Problem like Maria?\" (Sir Thomas and Lady Bertram). Here\ufffds my own contribution: I Got Plenty of Nuthin\ufffd--the Bennet girls I Cain\ufffdt Say No--Lydia Bennet There\ufffds No Business Like Show Business--Henry & Mary Crawford, Maria & Tom Bertram, Mr. Rushworth and Mr. Yates I Love a Piano--Jane Fairfax, Mary Bennet Change Partners--Harriet Smith Isn\ufffdt This a Lovely Day to be Caught in the Rain--Mrs. Bennet to Jane Lazy--Lady Bertram I Won\ufffdt Dance--Darcy, Lizzy (at different times) I\ufffdve Got My Eyes on You--Mr.Knightley to Emma Love For Sale--Mrs. Bennet My Heart Belongs to Daddy--Emma Woodhouse I\ufffdm Afraid I Love You--Darcy An Armful of You--Willoughby Nobody\ufffds Chasing Me--Caroline Bingley Glad to Be Unhappy--Marianne Dashwood I\ufffdve Got a Crush on You--Harriet Smith Ask Me Again--Lizzy, post-Pemberley Where Are the Men?--Kitty & Lydia Bennet Bidin\ufffd My Time--Frank Churchill Take My Mother Home--Jane and Elizabeth Bennet The Gentleman is a Dope--Maria Bertram re Mr. Rushworth There\ufffds No Cure Like Travel--Elizabeth Bennet Love Me, Love My Pekinese--Lady Bertram On And On And On--Miss Bates Why Am I So Gone About That Gal--Darcy Memories--Mrs. Musgrove Medley: There is Nothing Like a Dame, There\ufffdll Always Be a Lady Fair, Falling Out of Love Can Be Fun, Just One of Those Things, So Long It\ufffds Been Good to Know You--Willoughby, Wickham, William Elliott, Henry Crawford"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (09:25)", "body": "ROFLOL!!! Capital, Anne3, Capital!!!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (10:59)", "body": "Anne3, perfect!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:04)", "body": "Wondrful, Anne3!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:30)", "body": "Oh Anne! What a hoot! SNORT!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (17:19)", "body": "ROTFLOL Anne - It's very, very clever and definitely needs to be posted right along with the others on HC's site!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "Water and field fowl hunters take note: Appropos this cloning business, the Scots have managed to breed a hunting dog with an African Hyena. Hunting dogs will be able to point and laugh at their targets at the same time."}, {"response": 47, "author": "candace", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (20:32)", "body": "What about this song for Mr. Darcy: \"Take me to the River, Drop me in the water, washing me down, washing me down...tease me, please me.\""}, {"response": 48, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "But Candace, Darcy is certainly much more than a mere Talking Head! (sorry, couldn't resist.)"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (05:02)", "body": "Carl, you ROTFLOLANed that coffee... Thanks, Mich...have I shared my \"3 Most Powerful Men and Armageddon\" joke?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (08:14)", "body": "Don't know if anyone is ready for this one, but for the following bit of doggerel it helps to know that my last name is pronounced \"freeze'-em-a\". Were my daughter to marry the grandson of Issac Asimov, her name would be (drum roll...): Kathryn Rachel Friesema-Asimov. P.S. A good friend of mine related this to Mr Asimov in the late 80's at a function of the Space Studies Institute (Princeton, N.J.), to which the three of us belong as senior associates. He reported that Mr Asimov chuckled in amusement."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (08:31)", "body": "But should you really wish to do that to your daughter, sir? What do you do, Bill?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (10:52)", "body": "I having lot of fun working solo out of my home as a software developer (have been programming for about 25 years). Came to U.S. as a very young one from the Netherlands. Have a heavy background in physics and meteorology. I currently am developing programs for the railroad industry. Love reading, chess, astronomy, music, wilderness canoeing (I've been going up to Canada every year since 1980), and running. And to answer your question: No, I do not wish the connection. Best she should first secure her education before reviewing prospects."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:15)", "body": "Carl, I loved your dog, and Anne3 lots of laughing on your list from Plenty of nutting to I wont dance...May I suggest 'I could have danced all night' ,Mr Collins 'Tonight'(West side story) Darcy after music evening at Pemb. 'Do you miss me tonight?', Captain Wentworth 'Like a bridge over troubled water', Colonel Brandon 'Mother'(J Lennon), Anne De Bourgh"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:55)", "body": "Welcome Bill. Re; your wildnerness canoeing; I've been to the Quetico several times, always thru an outfitter in Ely; my hubby goes every year with a group of friends (we live in Wisconsin, Milwaukee metro area). Where do you enter the park?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:58)", "body": "Oh, canoeing might be a fun summer gathering for our cult."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:10)", "body": "Hi Mari, Mostly we enter Quetico thru Atikokan; but have entered several times thru Beaver House Lake, French Lake, and Cache Bay. We outfit ourselves and go very light, single portaging all the way for a week. I have an 18 foot Wenonah Sundowner, Kevlar, that weighs 44 pounds. Do a lot of fishing, skinning dipping, and my latest hobby: bread baking. I make an oven using flat stones. Sour dough is my specialty. Nothing tastes better than a fresh loaf in the pine scented air. Alice Lake and an island in Mackenzie B y are two of my favorite campsites in the Park. Last summer we passed within 200 yards of a raging forest fire on Bud Lake, which we had seen started by lightning a few days earlier. Quite exciting: very loud and I never saw so many different colors of smoke. Fire was leaping through the trees a hundred feet at a time. An island right next to us went up in flames. The hot air rose so fast that cooler air rushes in to the fire at lake level and whipped up the waves nicely for us. After we passed the infern , we just sat in our canoes for about 20 minutes and took it all in. Unforgettable. Any where do you go in the Park? Any favorite memories?"}, {"response": 57, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (19:19)", "body": "Kali, pls share your 3 Most Powerful Men and Armageddon."}, {"response": 58, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (09:43)", "body": "Another copy writer bites the dust: I was listening to the radio with half an ear yesterday and heard: \"How to protect your children from Pepsi, Burger King, and the top hits of the day!\" Believing that I had tuned in a very conservative religious broadcast, I listened more carefully for a few minutes, but the station immediately began playing a Morissette song. so I mused on what I had heard until I realized that when the message left the copy writers desk it must have looked something like this (blue italics are my guesses): send for the booklet \"How to Protect Your Children\" from (meaning brought to you by) Pepsi, Burger King, and the Top Hits of the Day!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (11:07)", "body": "My favorite radio blooper (courtesy of that delightful little book: 'Anguished English': \"Tune in next week for another series of classical music programs with the Canadian Broadcorping Castration\"."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (16:54)", "body": "I saw a headline a few years back during the silicon implant scare which read: Breast Implants Siezed Can you picture it?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (12:58)", "body": "Here's another one from Anguished English, from a history essay: Ferdinand Magellan - the man who circumcised the globe with his giant clipper."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (20:41)", "body": "That's definitly something Mrs Malaprop would say!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (02:24)", "body": "Just heard this, liked it, and thought you would too: \"Women are like tea bags -- put them in hot water and they just get stronger\""}, {"response": 64, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (23:21)", "body": "I am woman -- hear me roar.... austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 177, "subject": "Anne Elliot: Beyond Gender Politics", "response_count": 107, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (11:13)", "body": "This is a very thoughtful argument, Hilary. I agree with you that Lizzy _is_ in danger of becoming totally disillusioned with men after Wickham's snap engagement to Mary King and Mr. Darcy's odious first proposal, not to mention Mr. Collins'. I think Anne Eliot does possess something of a feminist spirit, if you will: yes, she is disappointed in love, and this starts to wear on her spirits; however, when the time comes to take action -- as when she completely takes control after Louisa's fall -- she's ore effective than any man present, even Wentworth. And I don't think there's anything wrong with her sticking to her guns and not abandoning her one true love for just anyone else who comes along. In her own way, she's a quiet tower of strength."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (11:44)", "body": "I have, for some time now, felt that I liked Persuasion better than any other of JA's novels. I think it is her most mature and (though Henry Churchyard has prooved me wrong) I like to think Anne and Jane have many similarirties. I find it diffilcult at times to see any of our heriones in a completely modern way and have respect for those who can. I feel there are so many other strictures placed upon them that it is sometimes difficult to judge them in modern terms. They live in a male dominated so iety. They live in a time when you obeyed your elders out of respect, no matter what. The actions our heriones take cannot be judged harshly in terms of gender politics by those of us who have had freedoms these women might never understand. Anne obeyed her father and listened to Lady Russell's advice because that was the way things were done. I don't know if she would have had the strength of character at that young age anyway to do what she did at 26, which in a way, was scandalous. I admire Anne so much. Her integrity is impeachable. She is certainly not as dynamic as Lizzie but has a calmness about her that Lizzie will never know (pardon my tense here). I look at what these women did to guarantee their own happiness in the context of the time they lived in and their situations and cannot help but admire their strength as women , this is what makes them heros (humans?). Think of how young women of that time in similar situations who read about them felt. I don't like to comple ely buy into feminism in modern terms (glass ceiling and all that), but am grateful that I have freedoms . There are times I wish that things would turn out for me as they did for Anne, but I am glad I have opportunites. The fact that so many people react as we all do to JA's characters proves that their herosim does transcend gender politics and time, if they were insipid we wouldn't give them any time at all."}, {"response": 3, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (13:31)", "body": "Lizzie is my favourite JA character, but there is much that I admire in Anne as well, and in many ways it is much more remarkable that she stuck to her principles than that Lizzie did. Elizabeth is in the position of strength of having a beloved sister as a confidante and also enjoys her farther's true regard and affection (she is his favourite). Although her mother and other sisters are annoying, I don't think there is any evidence of animosity coming from them. In fact, Mrs. Bennet is really only loo ing out for her girls' best interests, how ever inappropriately she goes about it! Who does Anne have to look out for her? Her father and Elizabeth completely disregard her feelings and usually her presence and Mary is constantly insulting her. The one person on her side, Lady Russell, nearly ruined her life by talking her out of marrying Wentworth. When Charles Musgrove proposed, it certainly must have been more difficult for her to say no than it was for Lizzie to say no to Mr. Collins !"}, {"response": 4, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (15:39)", "body": "Lizzie is also my favorite, due to her liveliness and great wit. I could argue though, that Mrs. Bennet seems almost jealous of Lizzy at times -- she is downright resentful when Lizzy refuses to marry Mr. Collins, threatens to never see her again, etc. We could also argue that Caroline Bingley, Lady C. and Mrs. Hurst bear Lizzy a great deal of animosity, since they pick up on Darcy's affection for her. However, Lizzy's immediate family circle is certainly not as cold as the Eliot's. And Anne does seem more mature -- she's about six years older, right? I agree there is a depth & a maturity to Austen's last novel which makes it my 2nd favorite. And you have to think that it DID mirror JA's life in some way -- the Lefroy incident; her never being married, etc. If JA DIDN'T experience lost hopes in love, she's an even greater writer than we think!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "I agree with all the arguments above. Lizzie is my favorite character, also, but Anne runs a very close second. I've always seen a quiet strength in her that doesn't ask for recognition from anybody around her (and she certainly doesn't get it!) - I find even Lady Russell rather too cold and manipulative to be a good influence for Anne. I always admire the way she remains the same, calm, reasonable creature she is considering her terrible family. The only people who would be good for her--and I think n her own way she recognizes this during the story--are the Crofts. Amy 2 - you say that you think Mrs. B was a little jealous of Lizzie. I don't think she was. But she was jealous of anybody who would have a daughter married before one of hers - i.e., the Lucases. According to her, it was a race among the mothers of all the marriageable daughters in Meryton, where the daughters had very little to say in the matter (according to her!!)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "If JA DIDN'T experience lost hopes in love, she's an even greater writer than we think! Great point! Wouldn't you love to know about her \"dissappointments\"? Ocassionally I have thought about having a conversation with JA. I think she would not answer my questions regarding her personal life. She would be appalled at my boldness. Even if we became friends. I don't think she really told Cassandra everything. Rebecca: Jane was her confidante in P&P2 but not so much in the book. I really think Lizzie was lonely when at home. You cannot tell you father (even today) about your disappoinment in love (o.k., some of us can)."}, {"response": 7, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (17:13)", "body": "When I was all alone with my JA obsession (ie: before P&P2 and austen-l and the P&P2 support group), Persuasion was my favorite of six well loved books. Sometimes I think P&P and Persuasion are at opposite ends of a picture of life. P&P is about what life can be - youthful and joyful and determined and optimistic. Persuasion is about coping with life when it is less than it can be. Anne 'coped' while I was learning to cope. She coped gracefully while I fussed and fretted. Besides, JA told me in chapter one that Anne would always be valued by people of 'real understanding'. Since I wanted to be in the group, how could I do less than value Anne?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (18:27)", "body": "Wow, what a rich topic. Thank you Hil. There is so much here, I can only chip away at it in little pieces: Elizabeth's sparkle, wit, confidence, humour, forthrightness, and refusal to bow to convention for convention's sake, especially in matters of the heart, make her irresistably modern and attractive. __ Yes. I wonder if the character was received well when the story was first published. Or has this kind of courage always been heartwarming to women readers?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (19:19)", "body": "I've always liked Anne Elliot too. I particularly liked the way she stood up to her father and insisted on seeing her friend, Mrs Smith. She's certainly not lively or fiery like a Lizzy or even an Emma, but she possesses strength of mind and strong principles. One of the things I like about the book is that we see her become even more strong and assertive throughout the novel:the trip to Lyme and her level-headness and calmness of manner when Louisa is hurt. The Captain's notable line: \"no one so proper, o capable as Anne!\" By the end, you really are rooting for the two to find their way back to each other. She deserves happiness."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (19:23)", "body": "Could the differences in ages of the two heroines be a factor to consider? Especially if we are discussing the differences of Elizabeth and Anne's strength of character. Lizzy is not yet 21, had never been truely in love and of a more dominanting, playful character perhaps typical of a present-day teenager with still a lot to learn in life but thinking herself already sufficiently matured because of a bunch of idle sisters to compare with and her father's obvious prejudice in her favour (Jane excepting). Anne is (if I recall correctly) already 27. When she was first in love (at about Lizzy's age with Wentworht) was perhaps a less confident lady as a result of the lack of attention at home, (her frivously self-centered family) no friend that was mentioned except Lady Russel who has always been like a mother to her. I do dearly love both heroines and appreciate their differences."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "Amy2: 'And I don't think there's anything wrong with her sticking to her guns and not abandoning her one true love for just anyone else who comes along.' Neither do I. Dina: The question of regarding these heroines through modern eyes is interesting, and for me, shifts around all the time. I too would not swap my freedoms. Certainly life for women had so many more strictures. Does that make achievement of happiness more difficult? Probably. Then again, people are often more comfortable with the security of knowing the 'way things are, and are done'(at least you know what you are bucking when you want to buck the system!), and one often hears people grumbling that that i what is missing in society today. Maybe its one more arguement for appreciating the way the heroines deal with their lot, rather than trying to weigh up whose lot is worse. 'I really think Lizzie was lonely when at home.' She, and Anne, and Jane would have taken to the net like ducks to water! Inko: Love those Crofts! They are like Mr. And Mrs Gardiner, don't you think? Katy: Sometimes I think P&P and Persuasion are at opposite ends of a picture of life. P&P is about what life can be - youthful and joyful and determined and optimistic. Persuasion is about coping with life when it is less than it can be. I agree. I would have fussed and fretted too, Katy. Amy: I wonder if the character was received well when the story was first published. Or has this kind of courage always been heartwarming to women readers? I would have assumed it was, but its an interesting question, too. Maybe HC can shed some light on how 'Persuasion' was recieved at the time. Cassandra: 'She deserves happiness.' Indeed. That is the reason I didn't mind Wentworth's public announcement of their engagement in the film. For once Anne was acknowledged properly, even if all the prawns didn't have the sense to understand why!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (21:18)", "body": "Katy: Besides, JA told me in chapter one that Anne would always be valued by people of 'real understanding'. Since I wanted to be in the group, how could I do less than value Anne? Reminds me of a line from Jane Austen's Frederic & Elfrida , where a certain poem engraved on a tombstone is described in the following terms: ``These sweet lines, as pathetic as beautifull, were never read by any one who passed that way, without a shower of tears, which if they should fail of exciting in you, Reader, your mind must be unworthy to peruse them.'' (This is pretty funny in context -- see http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/fredelfr.html .) Amy: Elizabeth's sparkle, wit, confidence, humour, forthrightness, and refusal to bow to convention for convention's sake, especially in matters of the heart, make her irresistably modern and attractive. __ Yes. I wonder if the character was received well when the story was first published. Or has this kind of courage always been heartwarming to women readers? Yes, I think that the early reaction to Lizzy, what there is of it that has survived (remeber that Pride and Prejudice was not a blockbuster runaway smash) was mostly positive. But one lady did comment something to the effect that Lizzy was insufferably pert and ill-bred. (I don't remember anything more about this -- it was probably in Southam's book, as would be a lot of the other contemporary reviews and reactions; see http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austfbib.html#fbibl415 .)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (21:20)", "body": "Oops -- Frederic and Elfrida is actually at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/fredelfr.html ."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (03:04)", "body": "I agree with you, Barbara...Lizzy was in a situation of power, where she was loved and respected, even if by imperfect people. She had enough presence of mind and a strong enough influence on the household to assure that she would never be encroached upon, intentionally or unintentionally, but those she lived with. Anne's not a pushover, as Cassandra states, but she wasn't mature enough to understand her own heart when she was young (Lizzy is hyperbolically mature and lucky for a twenty year-old, and in this respect, naturally makes Anne more realistic and believable), nor was she allowed the time and space to develop Lizzy's independent resoluteness. I'm sure it's the familial context...Anne's father, Sir Walter, and her sisters Elizabeth and Mary (the hypochondriac!) are all hideously alike in that they are excessive and spoiled...there is no other \"sensible\" sister to back her up (be it a Jane or a Lizzy...Anne could stand in for either), and no \"sensible\" parent to blunt the tendecies of the flightier one. And Lady Russell, well-meaning as she may be, obviously didn't understand Anne or her situation. Somehow, Anne is relegated quietly to the background in her family (by nature, situation, or both), lost in the useless shuffle of a houseful of selfish individuals...kinda like Fanny. Forgotten, neglected, and even directly put down, she becomes, like Fanny (and Lizzy too!), an observer of folly. As she is personally separated from that behavior, she doesn't develop it herself, but she witnesses quite enough of it to understand what morality and propriety are. In Fanny's situation, the correlation bet een her treatment and temperament is a bit easier to understand, as she's a poor relation - an interloper - with at least one distinct enemy in the house, but I think the situations are similar enough to show that habit on both sides of the insensitive treatment is cyclical and ingrained. People got used to dumping on them."}, {"response": 15, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (11:11)", "body": "The other factor that makes Anne differ from Lizzie is household wealth. Even though Sir Walter is a spendthrift and they all have to remand to Bath, she still comes from a higher social strata where someone like Elizabeth carries on like a Princess of the realm. Not an option for any of the Bennet girls. . ."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (12:17)", "body": "Amy: I wonder if the character was received well when the story was first published. Or has this kind of courage always been heartwarming to women readers? In the foreword to my copy of _Mansfield Park_ there is a discussion of how, when MP first came out they was a great disappointment in the book. People were quoted as saying ''Where has the author of P&P gone?'' The biggest beef was about the difference in the characters in the two books. It would seem that even then, men and women appreciated strength in a woman, because Lizzy was much prefered to Fanny. Sorry I am that I am at work and cannot quote you from the text, but that is the gist of it."}, {"response": 17, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (12:30)", "body": "Mari, it would seem your preface-writer is exaggerating the uniformity of the reaction a little bit... See http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/opmansfp.html"}, {"response": 18, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "The introduction in my Penguin classics edition of Persuasion has some interesting notes which draw another parallel between Anne and Lizzy. It suggests that in the cancelled chapter, Austen was dissatisfied in the way that Anne and Wentworth were reunited because Anne was too passive. She had been responsible for throwing away her own happiness, so to speak, by breaking up with the Captain, and to set things right she needed to be instrumental in their reconcilliation. Although her speech to Harville w s not intended to convince Wentworth to come back to her, she had gone as far as it was socially acceptable to go in letting her true feelings for him be understood, without, in effect, openly declaring that she still loved him. This is similar to Lizzy's situation. She, too, has been responsible for seemingly missing a chance at happiness by being prejudiced against Darcy and rejecting his proposal (although he deserved it!) She must also be instrumental in their reconcilliation because she was partly responsible for their separation. Darcy has already done his part at Pemberley by showing, through every civil/Wickahm situation. Lizzy does her part through her speech to Lady Catherine when she comes to Longbourne (sp?). Like Anne's speech to Harville, Lizzy's words to Lady Catherine are not intended to bring Darcy back to her, but are about as far as she can go without going to Darcy herself and telling him she loves him."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (14:57)", "body": "'but she wasn't mature enough to understand her own heart when she was young' Kali, I think she does, (more than Lizzy, whose maturity we see developing throughout P&P). Thats what made bowing to Lady Russel's advice even harder."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (21:23)", "body": "Hil said in her intro: I always feel that at this point Lizzy is at a crossroads. If events didn't happen to unfold as JA tells them, and Lizzy had had her fill of rocks and mountains, and returned to life with her family, there is a good chance she could have become bitter towards society and men, and followed in her father's footsteps, seeking entertainment and survival in irony. Do you think this is how JA herself survived? How some of us here survive?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (21:44)", "body": "Amy said: Do you think this is how JA herself survived? Yes, Amy, but she put her irony and view of society into her books not only for her own entertainment but for ours -- 200 years later!!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (22:20)", "body": "Hilary, you're right - it was very difficult for Anne to give Frederick up - however, she did it in the mind that it would be better for both of them to separate. She was honestly persuaded to believe that her love was wrong, and that the match would end in failure - that it would be a mistake, and that she and Wentworth would both live to regret it. She was persuaded to believe that she would eventually get over it and move on to bigger and better things...and then never did. Her first, hasty impulse to marry the man had been right. Unlike Lizzy, Anne knew the truth but failed to properly recognize or understand it...whereas Lizzy, had she known the truth from the beginning, would have never erred on the side of prejudice. Lizzy's faults of understanding lie in circumstance, while nineteen-year-old Anne's lie in her own inability to properly assess her situation and the validity of her feelings (immaturity). Does that make sense?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (22:42)", "body": "There are things about engagements in JA's times that I do not understand but which I assume would help us understand why Anne and Wentworth did not just settle into a long informal engagement as young people would today The conversation in bath between Mrs. Croft and Mrs. Musgrove deploring long engagements (as unsafe?? why??) and Capt. Benwick's situation seem to argue that one should not enter into an engagement until one is in a position to marry soon. I would appreciate any enlightenment anyone can shed on this."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (23:02)", "body": "I'm obviously no expert in engagements in general, let alone nineteenth-century ones, but it seems to me that the understanding that came with an engagement (those that are officially blessed, at least) was almost as sacred as marriage itself. I know that puritan marriages, for example, were essentially legally-binding, verbal contracts - in this light, aren't engagements merely verbal marriage contracts? Anyhow, it would seem that the reasons for preventing or breaking off an engagement would be the s me as those for preventing or severing an actual marriage."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (23:26)", "body": "Jane Austen sister Cassandra was engaged to Tom Fowle for a year or more. He was a private chaplain to Lord Craven. He wanted to have income to support their furture family. He died from fever in 1797 in San Domingo, Cassandra never married."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (23:56)", "body": "Kali - \" Lizzy's faults of understanding lie in circumstance, while nineteen-year-old Anne's lie in her own inability to properly assess her situation and the validity of her feelings (immaturity).\" I think Anne did assess the situtaion but from lady's Russell's view and probably from the view of society's concensus at the time. Wentworth still had his fortune to make and the fact that Darcy had 10K meant that Lizzy only needed to think about their competibility - of course attraction was another story. Since a man was expected to have sufficient finances to support the marital state , Anne had 'valid' reasons to give heed to Lady's Russels advise, being the one person closest to her. He had come back rich from after the war and her regret was profound - she abandoned him for the wrong reasons, acceptable as it was to the practical minded. Though I'm not suggesting that Anne or Lizzy were materialistic. It just worked out that way. What do you think??"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (00:22)", "body": "Thanks for the topic Hilary and everyone else's posts! I too love Anne Elliot but Elizabeth is my favorite. Just a few comments. I don't think Lizzy is in danger of becoming too cynical. She, like all of us, gets down but she boucnes back. For instance after finding out Wickham is not at the Netherfield Ball, JA says \"But Elizabeth was not formed for ill-humour; and though every prospect of her own was destroyed for the evening, it could not dwell long on her spirits; and having told all her grie s to Charlotte Lucas, whom she had not seen for a week, she was soon able to make a voluntary transition to the oddities of her cousin...\" Also when Lizzy is talking with her Aunt Gardiner regarding the (then) Jane/Bingley mishap, Mrs. Gardiner says, Poor Jane! I am sorry for her, because, with her disposition, she may not get over it immediately. It had better have happened to you, Lizzy; you would have laughed yourself out of it sooner. In addition to having this pleasant disposition, El zabeth also has family members (Jane, Mr. Bennet) who love and cherish her. Conversely, Anne has no one. I know Lady Russell is supposed to care for her but as I have been re-reading Persuasion I am becoming less convinced of Lady R.'s concern for Anne. For Lady R. to make two critical mistakes in judgement regarding Anne's welfare (Wentworth and Mr. Elliot) doesn't sit well with me. She also urged the family to go to Bath, with full knowledge that Anne really disliked Bath. I simply cannot imagine someone who loves you and putting your best interests first could make mistakes like that. Yes I know in life people we love can advise us poorly but regarding important decisions like marriage; it seems a mistake not be taken lightly. I believe the key lies in the fact that Lady R. does not put Anne's interests first; she relies on what she sees in appropriate and customs of the day. Also Lady R. has this spiteful glee when she learns that Wentworth has attached himself to Louise Musgrove. If her first concern was Anne, she would have held him contempt for hurting Anne. But this, I believe, further reveals Lady R.'s primary concern - herself. What I love about Anne is that she is able to persevere in spite of being alone and unappreciated; lesser people would not have been able to cope."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (05:01)", "body": "I agree with those who have said this is a great topic - with the potential to branch many times if it could! With regard to a direct comparison between Anne Elliot and Elizabeth Bennett, I also think that the differences in their behaviour arise from differences in their personality and, to a lesser extent, situation. Elizabeth isn't stronger than Anne, she's more outgoing, self-assured and lively, especially at the start of her novel, but as has been pointed out Anne is just as strong, in her more contained way. Lizzy's more extroverted character does fit better with the 'ideal' some modern feminists currently promote, but I think this is an error of judgement on their part made because the strength of the extrovert is more obvious. Today as in the Regency it's a mistake to make assumptions about anyone's moral or social strength based on their manner. In considering the 'modern' response to JA's heroines, I remembered one ofmy own first responses to P&P2; that even in 1812, some men were attracted to strong women because of their strength, not in spite of it! I don't know why it took me this long to notice it - I first read P&P in 1972, but in those days I didn't know anything about regency society and had little interest in 'gender politics'. Thinking of the rest of JA's work, I then noticed how little the differences between the society of the time and ours intrude; despite the laws and 'official' social rules of the time, we see strong, and weak, good, bad and indifferent amongst men and women. Despite some major changes in the trappings, people seem to be much the same."}, {"response": 29, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (11:16)", "body": "\"Today as in the Regency it's a mistake to make assumptions about anyone's moral or social strength based on their manner.\" Wickham being the prime test case, right? I agree with Anna -- I think Anne is just as strong as Lizzie in her way; she just isn't as outgoing. But BECAUSE Lizzy is so much fun; so lively; so 'out there' in her way; I confess I like her better!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (13:49)", "body": "Again, I must ask if Lizzy really is the \"extrovert\" we all make her out to be...she is certainly assertive when need be, but she's not a go-getter. In that respect, the Anne of her late 20's and Lizzy are the same...but where Lizzy is free (and feels free) in making opinions (and expressing them when necessary), the young Anne is most certainly not. She allows herself to be swayed and discounted by others...she has a lack of faith in herself which is less a gender-political issue than a flaw of youth. In this way, I think Anne is a more realistic personality."}, {"response": 31, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (13:52)", "body": "The Austen heroines we see as being more like modern women are the ones who have some type of power. Some of you agreed with what I said earlier about Lizzy being in a position of power because of the love and support from her family. (Sometimes I think her father treats her like the son he never had). In the Elliot family, it is Elizbeth who appears to have this same power, but we see Anne's power emerge once she leaves Kellynch and goes to live among those at Upercross who respect and value her (sister Mary not necessarily included!) Emma also has power, and in fact professes her intention never to marry because she lacks neither wealth or consequence (read: Why do I need a man?) No discussion of gender politics could be complete without raising the issue of entailments. The fact that JA put so many of her heroines in a predicament because of an entailment I think gives us her opinion about that custom! How many women were forced into a situation that was less than desirable because of such a legal arrangement? This is something that makes Lizzy seem all the stronger. She knows perfectly well that she and her mother and sisters will be out on the street as soon as her fat er dies. She certainly has no reason to hope (at first) that someone of Darcy's social echelon would want to marry her, and yet she must follow her judgement and refuse Mr. Collins, despite what that may mean to her future. I think the fact that she rejects Darcy's first proposal shows that she is not interested in being rescued or looked upon as a charity case, so to speak. She can't accept him until he is prepared to come to her as an equal. (BTW, how do you think Mrs. B would have reacted if she fo nd out that Lizzy turned down Darcy's first proposal ;) )"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (13:53)", "body": "Katy - I live in a culture where the engagements are short (usally 3 months). This is for the moral implications of sex before marriage: \"Dangerous\"(?). Could this be it? I don't know how often/much these Regency period couples were allowed to be alone together, but that is a thought. She was honestly persuaded to believe that her love was wrong, and that the match would end in failure - that it would be a mistake, and that she and Wentworth would both live to regret it. I am not sure I agree Kali. I think LR was just trying to convince Anne it was not \"the Elliot way\" for her to marry a man \"who had nothing to recommend him but himself\" (or something to that effect). I don't think Anne thought it would end or fail . I think she was trying to do her duty, even though she loved him desperatley. I think she rejected Charles because she still loved Wentworth, even though Louisa says it was \"Lady Russell's doing\". Why was he good enough for Mary if he wasn't for Anne in LR's mind? Karen I loved you thoughts about Lady Russell I hadn't really thought of her being totally selfish..."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "Anne didn't end the engagement merely for herself or for her family...she did it for Wentworth, too...she thought she was doing what was best for both of them....she thought she was averting some sort of terrible mistake by deniying the validity of her own judgement: \"The belief of being prudent, and self-denying principlally for his advantage, was her chief consolation...\""}, {"response": 34, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:15)", "body": "I agree with whomever said that Lizzy is in a position of power as her father's favorite. \"Lizzy has more quickness than her other sisters.\" Although, I agree with Kali-I don't think Lizzy's liveliness and wit denote a extrovert. Like her father, she enjoys making sport of their neighbours, all that is pompous and ridiculous: people who take themselves and their social position too seriously, like Lady Catherine de Bourg. Emma is also petted and indulged by her father and Mrs Weston; \"never could I expect to be so truely beloved and important, so always first and right in any man's eyes as I am in my father's.....I believe few married women are as half as much mistress of their husband's house as I am of Hartfield.\" In contrast, I have always seen Anne as a sister to Fanny Price. She's ostracized in her family. Elizabeth is clearly her father's favorite and Anne's faded bloom and thiness are the only things Sir Walter comments on. Even sister Mary thinks she is Anne's superior by marriage and motherhood: \"You who have not a mother's feelings are a great deal the properest person.\" Madly in love with Wentworth at the age of 19, then, but still unsure of herself, I can understand(although I can't identify) why she was persuaded by Lady Russell(her one constant confidant and supporter) not to marry him. At the time, she wasn't confident or mature enough to trust her own heart and judgement. Another thing: Louisa's exclamations that she's not so easily persuaded and subsequent fall at Lyme always seemed, for me, to be JA's way of justifying Anne's decision to heed the advice of Lady Russell, in favour of prudence and caution. Any thoughts???"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:54)", "body": "Part of the beauty of Anne's and Wentworth's rematch is the fact that it survived the test of rupture and time. Perhaps, if they had married years earlier, their love would not have attained the truth and richness that it did upon being rediscovered. Perhaps Austen was trying to show that Anne and Wentworth, like Louisa, needed time to grow up before they jumped into something that, in their inexperience with it, might prove to be unreliable."}, {"response": 36, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (11:00)", "body": "I think Lizzy _is_ an extrovert, not merely because she's witty in private but because she is so in public; is greatly at ease among strangers, unlike someone we know; plays the piano with little fear at parties, even though she knows she's no Horowitz; stands up immediately to imposing figures like Lady Catherine and Miss Bingley; does whatever she wants, regardless of her mother's wishes -- as in walking the 3 miles to Netherfield, refusing Mr. Collins, etc. The only area she reins herself in on is rom nce -- in not expressing her feelings, but I think this was _society's_ constraints acting on her, not necessarily her choice."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (19:03)", "body": "Wow! What a lot of interesting things to respond to. 'Do you think this is how JA herself survived? How some of us here survive? ' I think there are elements of this in both instances. Sometimes survival for the short term, sometimes survival for the long haul. -------- 'I don't think Lizzy is in danger of becoming too cynical. She, like all of us, gets down but she boucnes back.' I think if we judge Lizzy on the metal she shows in the rest of the book, this is true...she is tenacious where her own happiness is at stake. But she, like all of, could suffer one too many obstacles. -------- I agree that ' Anne had 'valid' reasons to give heed to Lady's Russell's advise,'and ' people we love can advise us poorly but regarding important decisions like marriage'. I think LR advised Anne as well as she knew how, and in that sense was not being selfish. It was just Anne's misfortune that LR's outlook on what was best was narrow and did recognise her own. 'She allows herself to be swayed and discounted by others...she has a lack of faith in herself ' I can't quite agree with this. I think she weighs up duty against her own feelings, and duty wins. Later she still feels she made the right decision. I agree with these: ' I don't think Anne thought it would end or fail. I think she was trying to do her duty, even though she loved him desperatley.' ..she did it for Wentworth, too...she thought she was doing what was best for both of them.. 'Louisa's exclamations that she's not so easily persuaded and subsequent fall at Lyme always seemed, for me, to be JA's way of justifying Anne's decision to heed the advice of Lady Russell, in favour of prudence and caution.' Indeed...and there's a whole new thread. ---------- Love Anna's comments: 'the strength of the extrovert is more obvious. Today as in the Regency it's a mistake to make assumptions about anyone's moral or social strength based on their manner.' 'even in 1812, some men were attracted to strong women because of their strength, not in spite of it!' ' how little the differences between the society of the time and ours intrude; despite the laws and 'official' social rules of the time, we see strong, and weak, good, bad and indifferent amongst men and women. Despite some major changes in the trappings, people seem to be much the same.' ------- And I like this: 'The Austen heroines we see as being more like modern women are the ones who have some type of power.' Whether the power resides in an introverted or extroverted personality does not matter. Maybe, too, it is as well to remeber that even Meyers-Briggs allows a scale between the extremes of extrovert and introvert. Lizzy maybe a 60% extrovert!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (21:03)", "body": "There were long engagments, but they were usually prolonged for financial reasons (normally people wouldn't marry until there was some semblance of an income sufficient to set up a household...) An engagement wasn't really legally binding (like medieval \"betrothals\" were), though suits for \"breach of promise\" were possible. But an engagement was taken very seriously socially, and in quite a few cases of breaking off an engagment, unless there was an obvious external reason for ending the engagement, or the man had obviously acted like a real cad, then there would tend to be a lot of rumors, especially about the woman, mwho might find her reputation more or less blighted..."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (21:41)", "body": "Perhaps Austen was trying to show that Anne and Wentworth, like Louisa, needed time to grow up before they jumped into something that, in their inexperience with it, might prove to be unreliable. Very thought-provoking, indeed, Kali. I have always felt that maybe they didn't know each other as well as they thought they did at the time they were first engaged. Had they truly, would they have ever been apart, no matter what the circumstances?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (01:54)", "body": "Exactly, Susan. That's what I was trying to convey...if they really knew eachother...and if they really understood the nature of their attachement, they would have never separated."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (02:42)", "body": "I felt Jane Austen might have wanted to show up the value of putting love before prudential considerations. Lady Russel being all pragmatism and Anne/Wentworth being so much in love. Having done her family duty Anne lives to some degree of regret, but still reassuring herslf that she had done rightly by all of them. Anne was 'pushed' into early prudence. Then, she meets the Crofts, Mrs Croft has sailed the oceans, been through thick and thin and lived to tell the experience. The Crofts have a love story of their own. That is exactly Anne's missed opportunity. (Though I guess Wentworth would have had to be Captain for that arrangement to have taken place on the ship.) But it was the essence of a mature-love relationship (that Kali mentions above) that it had to grow into. Is this going round in circles?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Anneother", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (10:38)", "body": "When I think of Anne Elliot, I get a mind picture of someone who is very introverted and self-contained, but with the inner recognition of what is important to her own beliefs, and what is unimportant. She can be easily swayed by things which don't really matter to her, but quietly and restrainedly stands firm on those things that do matter to her. I wish I could be more like that."}, {"response": 43, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:00)", "body": "If extroversion = morality, then everyone in Hollywood is a saint!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (12:01)", "body": "Amy2 - Thank you for so eloquently stating your understanding of why Elizabeth appears to be more extroverted (in resp. 36). Your statement 43 gives me a chuckle as well. Kali and Susan - I agree with your impression of Anne and Wentworth's early relationship (and the misunderstandings) however I am usually more inclined to fault Wentworth for this. True LR persuaded Anne but if Wentworth knew Anne he must known her heart. Even after eight years, it still takes him most of the novel to realize how steadfast Anne is. Hilary - Yes LR is pragmatic but don't you think she should have created situations so Anne would meet others. When the Elliots move to Bath, she suggests this but why not sooner or bring Anne someplace. Selfish may not be the right word but LR has her own agenda for Anne regardless of what Anne thinks; it is difficult for me to call that type of control, love or concern."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (20:20)", "body": ""}, {"response": 46, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (20:23)", "body": "Sorry about that -- I must have Friday fingers, i.e, they're as tired as I am! Karen, I agree that Lady R's motives are suspect and rather un-friend-like. It's sad that's she's about the only friend Anne has -- poor dear has no one who really cares about what's best for her."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (23:51)", "body": "'I wish I could be more like that.' oh yes! 'If extroversion = morality,' LOL. But who says it does? LR does have her own agenda for Anne. But I still think it is well-meant. It says more about LR's values and lack of understanding than anything else."}, {"response": 48, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (05:52)", "body": "I honestly think LR is a creature of her environment and understanding. How many of us have had mothers with good intentions, but have given us advice that was totally wrong. I know I have! LR was taking the place of AE mother after her death. I just adore AE. I think her an excellent creature. is not JA timeless..."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (07:25)", "body": "% is not JA timeless... I think we're partial proof of that, Leslie! %-)"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (01:25)", "body": "Yes, she is a legend in my book.. JA's perception of human failings and characteristics is remarkable. For instance, LR behaves typically of someone who has taken on the protective role to promote the well being of those under her charge. It turns out to Anne's disadvantage, since it is tinged with materialism and not based on true understanding. See thinks she is doing her best for Anne, but it is misdirected, somewhat. If LR had 'loved' Anne as a mother and not only as her guardian, I could have liked er more in the novel.."}, {"response": 51, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "Yet I can't be too harsh on Lady Russell. Lady Russel stands in the place of Anne Elliot's mother. She has more maturity. Knows more about the world. Know's Anne has no independent fortune and knows her father's spendthrift ways. Lady Russell's motives may be mixed, but she seems to mean well. Objectively speaking the marriage would not have been a happy one, I think, had it taken place before Capt. Wentworth had made his fortune. Anne has no allies at this point, neither in fortune, nor in society. She could do little else but refuse him. Best at this time for her and him. Capt. Wentworth soon forgot about her during his rise to command status in the RN. But memories of her sometimes intruded upon his conscious life and perhaps his dreams, I would think. Anne's feelings continued on much stronger during the years of separation. Perhaps JA is right, women suffer more during these kinds of life experience than do men. Maybe their feelings remain stronger, even after\" hope is gone\". Might be an interesting thread for discussion."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "Maybe their feelings remain stronger, even after\" hope is gone\". Might be an interesting thread for discussion. I agree -- it could be very interesting indeed! :-)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "Anne even states when she talks with Harvill (spll) that women cannot help it, they live quiet lives at home. Men go out in the world and \"do\". I don't think it is only \"when hope is gone\" in their case. Hell, I work full time and still spend too much time thinking."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (17:25)", "body": "I think in JA's days, it was inevitable that women would suffer more and think more. They had little else to occupy them and what they did have was usually quiet, sedentary work that led to further thinking. Capt. Wentworth, on the other hand, was busy commanding a ship and would have little time to sit and reflect over his loss. I don't think the same holds true today, where both men and women are busy and might either both reflect or forget, or drown their sorrows, whatever. I think I just lost my idea!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (18:22)", "body": "I don't think it is only \"when hope is gone\" in their case. Hell, I work full time and still spend too much time thinking. Agreed. Tongue-in-cheek case in point: Relationships Contrary to what many women believe, it is fairly easy to develop a long-term, stable, intimate, and mutually fulfilling relationship with a guy. Or course this guy has to be a Labrador retriever. With human guys, its extremely difficult. This is because guys don't really grasp what women mean by the term relationship. Let's say a guy named Roger is attracted to a woman named Elaine. He asks her out to a movie; she accepts; they have a pretty good time. A few nights later he asks her out to dinner, and again they enjoy themselves. They continue to see each other regularly, and after a while neither one of them is seeing anybody else. And then, one evening when they're driving home, a thought occurs to Elaine, and, without really thinking, she says it aloud: \"Do you realize that, as of tonight, we've been seeing each other for exactly six months?\" And then there is silence in the car. To Elaine, it seems like a very loud silence. She thinks to herself; Geez, I wonder if it bothers him that I said that. Maybe he's been feeling confined by our relationship; maybe he thinks I'm trying to push him into some kind of obligation that he doesn't want, or isn't sure of. And Roger is thinking: Gosh. Six months. And Elaine is thinking: But, hey, I'm not so sure I want this kind of relationship, either. Sometimes I wish I had a little more space, so I'd have time to think about whether I really want us to keep going the way we are, moving steadily toward x I mean, where are we going? Are we just going to keep seeing each other at this level of intimacy? Are we heading toward marriage? Toward children? Toward a lifetime together? Am I ready for that level of commitment? Do I really even know this person? And Roger is thinking: So that means it was, let's see, February when we started going out, which was right after I had the car at the dealer's. Which means, lemme check the odometer, WHOA! I am way overdue for an oil change here. And Elaine is thinking: He's upset. I can see it on his face. Maybe I'm reading this completely wrong. Maybe he wants more from our relationship, more intimacy, more commitment. Maybe he has sensed -- even before I sensed it -- that I was feeling some reservations. Yes, I bet that's it. That's why he's so reluctant to say anything about his own feelings. He's afraid of being rejected. And Roger is thinking: And I'm gonna have them look at the transmission again. I don't care what those morons say, it's still not shifting right. And they better not try to blame it on the cold weather this time. What cold weather? It's 87 degrees out, and this thing is shifting like a damn garbage truck, and I paid those incompetent thieves $600! COMMUNICATIONS GAP And Elaine is thinking: He's angry. And I don't blame him. I'd be angry too. God, I feel so guilty, putting him through this, but I can't help the way I feel. I'm just not sure. And Roger is thinking: They'll probably say it's only a 90-day warranty. That's exactly what they're gonna say, the scumballs! And Elaine is thinking: Maybe I'm just too idealistic, waiting for a knight to come riding up on his white horse, when I'm sitting right next to a perfectly good person, a person I enjoy being with, a person I care about, a person who seems to truly care about me. A person who is in pain because of my self-centered, schoolgirl romantic fantasy. And Roger is thinking: Warranty?! They want a warranty?! I'll give them a damn warranty! I'll take their warranty and stick it right up their... \"Roger,\" Elaine says aloud. \"What?\" says Roger. \"Please don't torture yourself like this,\" she says, her eyes beginning to brim with tears. \"Maybe I should never have... Oh God, I feel so...\" (She breaks down, sobbing). \"What?\" asks Roger. \"I'm such a fool,\" Elaine sobs. \"I mean, I know there's no knight. I really know that. It's silly. There's no knight, and there's no horse.\" \"There's no horse?\" asks Roger. \"You think I'm a fool, don't you?\" Elaine says. \"No!\" says Roger, glad to finally know the correct answer. \"It's just that ... It's that I ... I need some time,\" Elaine says. (There is a 15 second pause while Roger, thinking as fast as he can, tries to come up with a safe response. Finally, he comes up with one that he thinks might work.) \"Yes,\" he says. A BEFUDDLED BEAU (Elaine, deeply moved, touches his hand.) \"Oh, Roger, do you really feel that way?\" she asks. \"What way?\" asks Roger. \"That way about time?\" says Elaine. \"Oh,\" says Roger. \"Yes.\" (Elaine turns to face him and gazes deeply into his eyes, causing him to become very nervous about what she might say next, especially if it involves a horse. At last, she speaks.) \"Thank you, Roger,\" she says. \"Thank you,\" says Roger. Then he takes her home, and she lies on her bed, a conflicted, tortured soul, and weeps until dawn, whereas when Roge"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (18:45)", "body": "Susan, that is remarkable. Thank you."}, {"response": 57, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (19:08)", "body": "Susan - ROTFLOL. The meaningful discussions we have not had!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (19:26)", "body": "perfect! absolutely perfect!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (19:47)", "body": "Several people have stated that they view Anne as weak (or lacking in strength) for breaking off her original engagement to Wentworth. But does strength only come from following one's heart no matter what? Does it not also show great strength of character to put aside one's feelings for the sake of prudence? Where the heart and the head are in conflict which takes more strength to defy? As JA wrote the story, Wentworth was sucessful, received his promotions, and made a tidy fortune over the years he was away from Anne, but there was no way she could have known that he would do so. As he said himself, it was lucky he didn't go down in the rickety and unsafe Asp , which would have left her a young widow with no money. He felt she should have had enough faith in him to go ahead anyway, but a military career, particularly in the Royal Navy, takes a great deal more than just force of ch racter or even ability. If he failed to make the proper connections (I'm sure it helped that he was brother-in-law to an admiral), or if the uncontrolable sea was unfavorable, or if he lost one of his battles, he would not have been sucessful and the marriage would have been a disaster. Intellectualy she was right to refuse him until he could be in a position to be able to securely provide for her. That he didn't apply for her hand when this obsticle was removed was a weakness of his , due to damaged pride and anger at her for her prior hesitations. If he had renewed his offer, we could then see that she made an absolutely proper decision to wait until he was in a position to take care of her. I think it took great strength for her to turn away from a love strong enough to last for over eight years of seperation. I think much of this boils down to which you have more value for: the head or the heart. For me I value rational and careful thought tempered with sufficient feeling. I think many here value the passions of the heart tempered sufficiently with rational thought. How you view Anne's strength and decisions will depend very much on your own personality and values."}, {"response": 60, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (19:56)", "body": "It is hard to think back past Susan's delightful senario and get back to the male vs. female response to breakups. Years ago, I read that the shyer, more introverted partner will have more trouble with the breakup than the more outgoing partner. Maybe this is the 20th century replacement for Anne's statement that women remember longer. As a shy woman (a blessed quarter of a centruy past my last painful breakup), I cannot exactly be sure (remember) where society's retrictions on women ended and my own restricitons on myself began. But I am watching teens just learning to date, and I see boys ready to propse at 12 and 15 (the one who proposed at 12 is now 14 and still in love with the same girl), boys who have only one friend (the girl friend) and who take it very hard when the breakup occurs, boys too young to drive who have maintained steady relationships for over a year. One of my neighbors has practically adopted her son's girlfriend over the last year. These boys do value their relationships with their girl friends! Maybe these boys will change and get more aloof as they get older. This is the only dating age group I know well at the moment, so I cannot predict the situation five years from now. But I wonder if maybe we are remembering the 'ones to got away' and forgetting the ones we got away from when we talk about men and their disregard for relationships."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (20:08)", "body": "Susan, that was absolutely marvellous! LOL for quite a while!!;-)"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "Susan, I'm still in stitches - isn't that so real a scenario and ending with the women analysing it to pieces and the guy wondering about the horse!!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (22:30)", "body": "Glad you guys liked that! I took it in to work, and everyone, men and women alike, loved it -- all the guys said it accurately described women, and all the women said it was spot on for guys, but everyone thought it was funnier than hell! When we say they don't get it, we're talking about the horse, aren't we? %-)"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (10:28)", "body": "For me I value rational and careful thought tempered with sufficient feeling. I think many here value the passions of the heart tempered sufficiently with rational thought. I don't know if I should feel slammed or be impressed. Either way, put well. One of the things we discussed at my JASNA meeting on Saturday was the way that Wentworth actually came into all this money. We decided not to call him a pirate but a privateer. Subtle difference. I guess this was the excepted form for a seaman to get his fortune. In this day and age it would be frowned upon. I don't think Anne was weak. You just need to read the two pages (in my book) where the explanation of the break-up is and you can understand where she is coming from. She did it for both of them. I don't agree with her reasons and the way her character appears to be, I don't think this would have failed. I still think she would have been happy and, as the book says, Wentworth was sure he would secure a fortune. I guess I just don't see Anne being the Lady of the Manor. I think she would have been happy anywhere, as long as she was with Frederick. Do you think he would have taken Anne with him, like the Admiral took Sophie? Maybe this is just my passion of the heart talking."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (10:46)", "body": "I forgot to say: Susan, loved the story. Already copied it into my wordprocessor. A friend sent me a comic from the Washington Post a few months ago. It shows a woman working at a computer. She reads: Instant Companion, matchmaking services for mature singles. Fill out qualifications for your ideal mate. She writes: Seeking a trustworthy male who enjoys a simple life..long walks at sunset ...content with cuddling..someone who'd be loyal to one woman. She posts the letter and walks away with a sigh. Later her door bell rings. When she answers there sits a smiling dog with a rose in his teeth. She takes him for a walk and thinks: What the heck.. at least he's vaccinated . So, are we getting cynical?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (14:26)", "body": "I've often wondered what JA thought about the way naval men made their fortunes, too, Dina. And forgive me for repeating this, but it is one of my favorite fantasies -- that the Captain's ship escorts Napolean to his second exile. Anne's on board and counsels Nap as to the proper blend of prose and poetry for one in exile."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:18)", "body": "I would have never thought of that. Amy, you're brilliant!! Do you think she recommended Marmion or Lady of the Lake?"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (17:34)", "body": "Well, as long as it's my fantasy, I'll say she pointed him to Blake."}, {"response": 69, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "Susan's #54 clearly describes how many men deal with relationship talk. While 90% of the time most men arn't thinking of anything; the other 10% of the time is usually spent dealing with some concrete problem with strictly defined perameters. Not relationships! Men want a relationship with a woman, we just don't want to have to talk about it."}, {"response": 70, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (18:44)", "body": "Nice idea, Amy. To Susan's piece, and others: Its funny, and there is a bit of truth in it, as in all stereo-typing. But why stereo-type in a discussion that is precisely about not stereo-typing? I am caught between despair and anger."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "]why stereo-type in a discussion that is precisely about not stereo-typing? I am caught between despair and anger. Hil, I understand what you mean, but sometimes humor leads to understanding. No offense was intended."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (23:26)", "body": "I know no offense was meant, Susan. Thanks."}, {"response": 73, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (23:37)", "body": "-- that the Captain's ship escorts Napolean to his second exile. Anne's on board and counsels Nap -- in French of course. Anne's fluent French is why Wentworth was chosen for this task!"}, {"response": 74, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (02:17)", "body": "I can't stand Lady Russell. Lots of people -- including Hilary's fave critic -- have mentioned Anne's strength, her enviable way of keeping herself intact with no love or support. I think she learned to do this from her mistake in listening to Lady R and refusing the Captain. We talk a lot about how we, as a group or type, think too much. Anne was our patron saint. What did she have to do but reflect on her turning point? I could be wrong, but I like to think she mulled it all over -- and over and over. And decided at some point during those eight years that she would be her own person no matter what. I love her."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (03:50)", "body": "There we have it in print - an opinion from a man (Carl) about Susan's exclusive story. 90% of the time they're not thinking about anything...... and before that gets me into trouble - I'm sure the 10% makes up for it. I hope I'm not alone when I say that I really enjoyed the adaptation of Persuasion - it was just as I pictured the novel to be and Capt. Wentworth with his disinterested, arrogant air when he first meets Anne at breakfast in Mary's kitchen after so many years. My heart broke for her and him. They were all so well cast."}, {"response": 76, "author": "janea", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (09:50)", "body": "Susan! LOL, or should I say LOVL, laughing out _very_ loud. Have you read John Gray\ufffds book \"Women come from Venus, men come from Mars\"? It\ufffds about just this. There is a desciption in the book about Elaine (if I may borrow your names?) coming home from job. She\ufffds worried, she wants to talk about her problems. Roger doesn\ufffdt understand. He puts om he\ufffds little \"servicehat\" (I don\ufffdt know the right word, because I read the Swedish translation) and comes with a solution to the problems. Elaine doesn\ufffdt want any s lution, she wants some sympathy, some comfort. She wants to _talk_, over and over again until it feels better. Roger wants to deliver a quick solution and get on with things. As Carl descibed it: men want to have a relationship with a woman, they just don\ufffdt want to talk about it. In some ways we are so different. Or as one of my friends use to say: Men, they\ufffdre just not like ordinary people...."}, {"response": 77, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (10:49)", "body": "Susan, that was great. You should send it to a magazine"}, {"response": 78, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (13:40)", "body": "Amy, I agree. I can't stand LR. So obsessed with decorum. I think we can all say that certain perspectives of decorum did not matter to AE. I think there were areas that were important to AE, but it was not all consuming. Thank goodness she did not marry that snake Mr. Elliot. Perhaps we could have a little fun though, and start a Kellynch Writers Guild..."}, {"response": 79, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (13:47)", "body": "'We talk a lot about how we, as a group or type, think too much. Anne was our patron saint. What did she have to do but reflect on her turning point? I could be wrong, but I like to think she mulled it all over -- and over and over. And decided at some point during those eight years that she would be her own person no matter what. I love her.' How beautifully put. Thanks. I don't think(!) theres much wrong with thinking a lot."}, {"response": 80, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (14:13)", "body": "I can't stand LR either. I always felt that her interest in Anne wasn't motivated at all by what she thought was good for Anne, but rather by what she wanted her best friend's daughter to be. It was all wrapped up in Anne's resemblance to her mother and LR refused to see beyond it. She pushed Anne toward the model she kept in her head of her friend. It reminded me of those women who have decided that their daughter will be the prettiest/brightest/most popular student and push them toward that goal, wi hout regard for talent or temperament or desire."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (16:49)", "body": "Ditto to Amy and Margaret. I too hate LR, and I agree she doesn't ever think of Anne's best interests. That's why I'm glad Anne decided to be her own person and listen to her own heart the second time around!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (16:53)", "body": "Well, finally, where were we all when this topic first started. Lady Russell haters united and be counted! Down with that kind of persuasion!"}, {"response": 83, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (18:13)", "body": "Susan, your piece went all around my office today. Much profuse giggling, even accompanied by tears! It's all so true! Thx for a good laugh!"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "Yes indeed Amy..."}, {"response": 85, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "Yes indeed Amy..."}, {"response": 86, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "OOPS...."}, {"response": 87, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (00:06)", "body": "And decided at some point during those eight years that she would be her own person no matter what. (Each of these lines should really be written vertically on a separate page with paintings which are described as \"meditations\" inserted at appropriate points, so you will have to imagine that part.) You, too, withhold the very things you complain are missing from the world. The space for what you want is already filled with what you settle for instead. You live for others, and wonder why you're never fulfilled. When you give up your own truth to win at someone else's game, everyone loses. Your relationships reflect your fears and limits. How can anyone ever give you what you won't allow? Every time you settle for the unacceptable you suffer a small death. Everything and everyone in your life is there by your choice. Release your snapshot images of relationships. Life is a motion picture. How can anyone ever love you for who you are if you become someone else to be with them? The opening lines/pages from Illuminations by Stephen C. Paul and Gary Max Collins. ISBN 0-06-250681-1 And along similar lines - similarly presented and illustrated: Life incites you to run from the Truth the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth If you care to. Life invites you to live by the Truth the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth If you dare to. Question: how can you tell the guru in the black robe from the guru in the white robe? Answer: the guru in the black robe keeps you wondering whether it is safe for you to go off into the sunset without him. the guru in the white robe smiles serenely as you bid each other farewell. having taught you to become your own guru. Snippets from Life is A Gift by Rusty Berkus and Christa Wollan, ISBN#0-9609888-0-7 - and also by the same duo: Appearances ISBN# 0-9609888-1-5"}, {"response": 88, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (07:40)", "body": "Thank you, Joan."}, {"response": 89, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (11:05)", "body": "I too don't like Lady Russell. It's hard to like someone who meddles in other people's lives, especially when their meddling has such a terrible effect. In Yiddish, we call such a person a yenta, and it's not a great thing to be thought as."}, {"response": 90, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "Thanks, Joan. 'care' and 'dare'....hmmmm"}, {"response": 91, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:39)", "body": "You don't like Emma, then, Amy2?"}, {"response": 92, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (16:45)", "body": "I like Lady Russell. I think she suffers from JA's creation of a heroine who has lived in solitude with a broken heart for eight years. For this situation to happen, poor Lady R must be very ineffective in her mothering. Even though Anne is my favorite Austen heroine, I have always considered her situation to be a bit of a stretch. It is very hard for me to believe that such a talented and lovely young woman could have been so neglected by everyone who might have helped her and would have been unable to make any efforts of her own to break out of the grinding routine of life at Kellynch and Uppercross. It makes no sense that Lady R would not have gotten her away from home more often. But I love the story, and I adore Anne, so I accept the situation as JA presents it. Lady R learns from her mistakes and reforms her opinions."}, {"response": 93, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (20:27)", "body": "Kali, I know this one is your fave, but I generally don't like EMMA. My faves are P&P, Persusasion, and Northanger Abbey. Now despise me if you dare!"}, {"response": 94, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (09:36)", "body": "Joan, those are wonderful -- and very thought-provoking..."}, {"response": 95, "author": "janea", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (12:14)", "body": "I\ufffdm not sure, but I think that I liked Lady Russell better in the book. In the film I think she\ufffds a bit cold. I can\ufffdt feel that she really cares for Anne. Compare the warmth between Anne and Mrs Croft in the Pumproom with the talks she has with Lady Russell who is supposed to be her dearest friend. I\ufffdve started to read the book again to see if I remember right. Anyone else who thinks the same?"}, {"response": 96, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "I can understand the resentment some may have to Lady Russell, but I beleive she acts more like a MOM to Ann than anything else. And like a MOM, she wants whats best for Ann, what SHE thinks is best, according to HER values : someone with money, connections, title, good breeding and good looks. Her only fault is to disregard what Ann wants, so how ever wrong LR's actions are, they were kindly meant and surely out of concern and a sentiment of care toward our heroine. We can see a lot less caring and support from her own family. Lucily Ann grows older and makes her own decision, but should she keep a grudge toward Lady Russel, like many of us should keep grudge to someone who tried to do right by doing wrong?"}, {"response": 97, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (12:56)", "body": "That Bingley Thing You Do should be our antemn"}, {"response": 98, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (13:19)", "body": "Jane - I too liked Lady Russell better in the book; she was more fleshed out, and there was more of an emphasis on her genuine concern for the family, and for Anne in particular. In the book I was more forgiving of her character faults, for it seemed to me she was putting a lot of pressure on herself to be to the Eliots what Lady Eliot had been before she died - the voice of reason. In the film, she appeared very selfish, and deserving of the angry words Wentworth gave her."}, {"response": 99, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (16:16)", "body": "Tracey, you're right. I just recently finished the book again and LR is much more fleshed out in it, versus the movie. In the book you read her thoughts, which are concern for Anne and disgust with her father and older sister for ignoring her. Her thoughts are much more concerned with Anne's welfare in the book than can be shown or is shown in the movie. Maybe that's why she seems rather cold. I'm just glad that Anne didn't seek her advice the second time around!!;-)"}, {"response": 100, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "I don't think Anne would have been swayed a second time anyway. When she sees Lady R refuse to acknowledge Wentworth on the street in Bath - LR pretends she has been looking at curtains - Anne 'sighed and blushed and smiled, in pity and disdain, either at her friend or herself.' I think at this point she really acknowledges to herself how shallow and at variance to her own happiness are Lady R's values."}, {"response": 101, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (07:02)", "body": "Hilary, I agree Let us not forget that LR wanted AE to marry Mr. Elliot. What a disaster that would have been."}, {"response": 102, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (18:09)", "body": "Hilary, I don't think it matters to the interpretation of Lady R., but I couldn't tell from the curtain scene whether Lady R. had seen Captain W. or not. I thought that Anne's disdain refered to Lady R if she did see him, OR to herself if Lady R. didn't (laughing at herself a bit for thinking that everyone would find Wentworth impossible to miss). Jane P.S. I love the thoughtful threads you have been starting and fostering lately."}, {"response": 103, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (13:22)", "body": "I archived the other Persuasion thread. Here are the recent messages from it: Topic 121 of 237 [austen]: Persuasion Response 119 of 128: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Thu, Feb 27, 1997 (02:08) * 4 lines Serena: Was there an earlier adaptation to the 1995 Amanda Root's Persuasion? The BBC did a version of it in the 70's. We had a Virtual View of it earlier this year, the topic should still be up if you care to read our reviews. The consensus is that it was pretty bad...stick with amanda Root and Cairan Hinds! ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 121 of 237 [austen]: Persuasion Response 120 of 128: Kali Pappas (Kali) * Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (21:46) * 1 lines A family friend purchased the 1995 version, hated it, and so gave it to me without hesitation...can you imagine? What generosity! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 121 of 237 [austen]: Persuasion Response 121 of 128: Ann (Ann) * Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (21:49) * 3 lines I hate the description on the back of the box: \"A young couple's stormy romance scandalizes English society in this acclaimed adaptation...\" No it doesn't! Society barely pays any attention at all. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 121 of 237 [austen]: Persuasion Response 122 of 128: Kali Pappas (Kali) * Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (22:18) * 1 lines How about \"flirtatious fun\"? I didn't catch that... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 121 of 237 [austen]: Persuasion Response 123 of 128: Susan (Susan) * Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:06) * 1 lines kali, you are lucky indeed! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 121 of 237 [austen]: Persuasion Response 124 of 128: Katy Kendall (kendall) * Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (02:34) * 1 lines I have this 1965 paperback edition of Persuasion with a gothic horror front cover and quotes on the back cover from Henry's teasing tale of terror to Catherine as they drive to the abby. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 121 of 237 [austen]: Persuasion Response 125 of 128: Amy (Amy) * Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (03:59) * 1 lines I think Henry has that NA cover scanned in. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 121 of 237 [austen]: Persuasion Response 126 of 128: Ann (Ann) * Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (16:39) * 1 lines Persuasion a gothic tale of horror? I suppose it is all in how you look at it ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 121 of 237 [austen]: Persuasion Response 127 of 128: The MYsterious H.C. (churchh) * Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (06:45) * 0 lines ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 121 of 237 [austen]: Persuasion Response 128 of 128: The Mysterious H.C. (churchh) * Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (06:47) * 3 lines Katy, is this it? -- http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/nhabgoth.jpg http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/nhabgoth.html"}, {"response": 104, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (08:29)", "body": "Johanne, I agree with you about LR. She really did think she was doing what was best for Ann, both in advising Ann not to marry Wentworth, and later in advising her to marry Mr. Eliot. Remember, she feels herself as trying to take the place of Ann's mother in these matters, and tries to do what she thinks Ann's mom would have done. Look who Ann's mother married...Couldn't it be that there is a bit of a generation gap here, and LR believes that a good marriage does not necessarily include love, but for nn, Love is what would make it a good marriage. Isn't this true of almost all JA's heroines? Fanny would be making a good match in Henry, as far as society was concerned, and so would Lizzy, had she accepted Darcy before she loved him."}, {"response": 105, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "Or Collins for that matter! Yes."}, {"response": 106, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (18:46)", "body": "Perhaps Lady Russel has stepped into a mother's shoes without the necessary experience of being the true mother of Anne. She is anxious (in a quick-fix type of way) that Anne should be taken cared of and for life, by marrying well and so the early Wentworth is not suitable in terms of financial security. LR only wanted Anne to be marriaed into the lifestyle she was accustomed to. That cannot be too evil an intention, can it??"}, {"response": 107, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (18:50)", "body": "An interesting point Serena. It rather puts LR into a different perspective. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 179, "subject": "When I first viewed P&P.......", "response_count": 82, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (20:01)", "body": "... I HATED IT! Can you believe it? Literary snob that I am, I was _appalled_ at all the sound & fury accompanying the Bennet family's outing to Church. I thought -- what a Hollywoodization of the book! I don't know when it struck me that this was actually. . .a great production. I had to overcome my own prejudices and really watch with patience a second time. So there's my True Confession for the day!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (20:21)", "body": "I LOVED IT! I had looked forward to it for weeks, sat with my remote ready to cut all the commercials, and sat enthralled for three nights in a row (back during the first showing in Jan. '96). But our cable glitched while Lizzie was reading Jane's letter re: Lydia; I tried to re-tape it, got two of the three sections but the last one was shown while we were away, so that one had commercials. I finally broke down (last March) and bought the tapes!! I haven't changed my opinion in all that time. The more I watch it, the more I love it. I remember being very disappointed in P&P0 (couldn't see why they had to change the book so much), and not at all impressed with P&P1. Now I know what it's like to be impressed!!!;-)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "As with many of the adaptations, I was so afraid of being disappointed that I could hardly sit through it. So, I watched and taped at the same time, leaving the room if I couldn't deal with a word change. (I wanted to shout that it's \"In vain have I struggled\" not \"In vain I have struggled\"). But, when I had time to reflect and watch at my own pace I loved it. I had major tape problems from rewatching favorite scenes, so of course I purchased the tapes. (Christmas present for myself for the year 2010, I believe!)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "I LOVED IT. I had watched P&P1 at every broadcast (about 5 times) but without a vcr to capture it. I thought P&P1 was great. P&P2 was explosively better. I felt the emotion in P&P2."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Becks", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (20:43)", "body": "It was funny, that day I had just seen S&S, and thought \"Jane Austen? Now why in the hell have I not read her books?!!\" Came home, looked at my TV guide, which had P&P on it's cover. Said Hmmmm, I think I shall watch this....... The rest is history. Had to go the bathroom really bad during first episode, but didn't dare leave my seat!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (21:13)", "body": "I had somehow managed to wrest the remote from my DH. Had no idea it was being shown, or had even been done. Caught the very opening of the folks walking from church and had an absolute fit: THIS IS PRIDE & PREJUDICE! \"oh, yippee,\" said my DH, dismissing himself to the other room since he knew I wouldn't be open to watching anything else! Was absolutely enthralled! Had to grab my JA collection to take to work with me so I could reread everything during lunch."}, {"response": 7, "author": "winter", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:10)", "body": "i was mesmerized from beginning to end! since i live out in the west coast, i was able to see the first airing, and it was still early enough for me to catch it once again that same night. and don't think that i didn't see every installment twice in one sitting, because i did! i was there every for all of it, book in hand and everything! cindy-- i reread the novels soon afterward, as well! i remember this was the time my boyfriend and i were living together (he's now at law school in boston) and i was tremendously thankful that we had our own television sets at the time, because there was NO WAY i was going to give up P&P2 for a basketball game!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Anne", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:23)", "body": "I started watching P&P2 looking for something to find wrong with it. I had just done a huge paper on it and analized the dialogue to high heaven. But I was shocked to find I actually enjoyed it. Not only that but I watched it over and over till I could recite the dialogue verbatim. After studying the dialogue so intently though, my only complaint is that they didn't have the part where Darcy asks Elizabeth to dance at Netherfield Park. And she responds, that she did not know how to answer him. I lov her wit there."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:55)", "body": "I was channel-surfing, looking for something to watch and came across P&P2 during its second showing in late January. I had never read JA before but I was absolutely enthralled. I knew that Lizzy would marry Darcy from the scene in the assembly room when she walks past him smiling/nearly smirking after he had uttered his detestable words. I was so excited by the story line that I rushed out and bought the book (an absolutely necessary deed since it was then aired every Saturday for 3 cons cutive weeks and I could not wait that long!). Imagine my delight that the book was as great as the series, for if I have read a book, I usually won't watch it butchered in a film adaptation and vice-versa. I spent the next several months kicking myself for not taping it and finally convinced my husband that A&E would never show it again and that I must have it for Mothers' Day. By the time it arrived I had read P&P (many times), read Chapman's Oxford edition, even bought the Cliffs' Notes, all n a vain attempt to keep the magic alive. My husband says I need a new hobby but I have not yet soothed the spot where P&P2 touches me---it has made me romantic where before I was pragmatic. It has---and maybe this is a sad thing---changed my life. Before P&P2, I scarcely knew myself because I was so wrapped up in being mom, wife, student, etc. that I rarely found time for me. Now I have this BB and my tapes and my addiction and I find that I am generally happier than I have been in quite a while.:-)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (23:14)", "body": "I taped it because I could not bear to be watching and have it end and have to wait for the next night. I then waited for the weekend so I could watch it in its entirety, and I WENT CRAZY over Colin Firth and the whole production. I laughed and laughed, and laughed, and drooled and drooled, and drooled. I went around telling everyone about it and NOBODY I knew CARED! I said hell with 'em and watched it over and over again ... then one day I found the Spring and the rest is history."}, {"response": 11, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "Meggin, your story is my story."}, {"response": 12, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (00:19)", "body": "I did not watch it. At least not until part-way through the second 2-hour installment in January '96. I very seldom watch adaptations of literature that I have loved; I am almost always disappointed, if not outraged. P&P0 was a travesty. I was not in the market for more disillusionment. But I was talked into taking a look by friends who assured me that I would like this one (Although, ironically enough, they have not become addicts!) Thank goodness they re-ran again almost right away. For that broadcast I was ready with my VCR!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (05:41)", "body": "I watched it on TV and made a copy of it, adverts & all. I had just bought P&P1 and had watched that to death and had no idea what to expect from the next adaptation. I loved it - it brought live to the scenes and felt so real to life. I, too drooled and laughed. Firth had that Darcy effect and his 'look of love' had me so excited, I couldn't sit still.. Love all 6 hours of ir.."}, {"response": 14, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (06:50)", "body": "I had deard a lot about it, and about how everyone in Britain had gone crazy over CF. I had watched P&P1 about six times, and the quality in these previews looked so good! In Australia it was shown in 6 separate episodes, a week apart. After three weeks I gave in and went and bought the video, and my room mate and another friend and I all sat down one Saturday night and had a six hour viewing. We had to go out and hire a vcr for the purpose, since I didn't own one. Then we watched it again, and again, and even though I had seen it all before, I still had to watch the last three episodes when they were boadcast."}, {"response": 15, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (06:50)", "body": "I had heard a lot about it, and about how everyone in Britain had gone crazy over CF. I had watched P&P1 about six times, and the quality in these previews looked so good! In Australia it was shown in 6 separate episodes, a week apart. After three weeks I gave in and went and bought the video, and my room mate and another friend and I all sat down one Saturday night and had a six hour viewing. We had to go out and hire a vcr for the purpose, since I didn't own one. Then we watched it again, and again, and even though I had seen it all before, I still had to watch the last three episodes when they were boadcast."}, {"response": 16, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (06:51)", "body": "oops. that's what you get for trying to correct a spelling mistake..."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (07:09)", "body": "I had seen P&P1 a few times (have had the tape for a couple of years). I first watched it in August. I then read the book, which I had tried to read before. I then borrowed and copied the tapes from our library, only I it took about 4 weeks, because you could only borrow 3 tapes at a time, so it took a while. I had just found this BB and lurked for a while. Rewatch the Classroom showing last november. Since I have all the episodes on one tape, I watch a little bit each day, and the rewind and start ov r again."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (08:08)", "body": "I had had three months of my sister in the U.K. telling me how wonderful Colin Firh was and howshe was finally reading the book that had been my favourite for twenty-five years. When it aired, I had a bout of flu, and my husband tucked me up on the sofa, with a bucket of hot lemon, tylenol and chocolate, kept the kids out of the way for three nights in a row. Heaven! He never watched it with me until Christmas, when he bought me my own set of tapes. We watched part one together one night, then part two the next. He refused to watch part three for a week. Then, suudenly, he produced it, chocolate(again!) and put me in front of the box, telling me not to say a word. After the first proposal he turned to me.\"Do they ever get together?\" he said. Just shows how much we communicate! Anyway, he slid in tape four, told me to be quiet,and we sat in silence. That night we got through tapes five and six as well.At the end, all he said was \"I think I understand now!\" When I catch him watching on his own, he claims it's for JE's boobs. He admits it's a good story though.I'm not complaining!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (11:53)", "body": "Glued me to the set. Blown away by visuals, costumes, music, dance, interiors, exteriors, regency mannerisms, country life, acting. Great story, too."}, {"response": 20, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (17:07)", "body": "I watch A&E all the time, and as you know they start hyping their new shows many months in advance, so I knew all about P&P2 well in advance. I had read the book I don't know how many times and was always sort of fond of P&P0, mainly because of Olivier, and despite the massacre it does on the novel. I had received P&P1 from my husband as a Christmas gift in 1994--a bit more than a year before P&P2 was first shown in Canada. It was a most thoughtful gift and he was very impressed with himself for findi g it (because I didn't know the tape existed) and because he can't stand those kinds of shows, so my sister-in-law and I watched it. All that to say that I was certainly geared up to watch P&P2 to say the least! And that is usually a guarantee of a disappointment, but not this time! i was mesmerized!. I watched it twice each day the first time-- A&E showed it at 6 p.m. and 10 p.m.. The song Mr. Beveridge's Maggot played over and over in my head for weeks.(it still does, and no help that they used this song in Emma2 also!) My true confession is that the one thing I didn't like the first time around was CF!! Or at least I didn't like him until after Lizzy and the Gardiners visited Pemberley."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (17:26)", "body": "A friend talked about it's being showed starting Xmas 1995.I remembered reading it once long ago and seing P&P1 once. Remembered thinking there was something special about Darcy! Had read Sense and Sensibility two years ago, but was not to pleased with it. The Swedish translations are not very good IMO.Sat down to watch with my mother who was staying with us for the holidays.And as she used to talk to me during films, I had put in a tape in advance to be sure I could catch up on missing parts. Did not e en put a tape in for part two until beginning of Netherfield Ball, must have been Darcy looking out the window that got me to hastily throw one tape in...Then I was completely hooked. For a while I had not the entire story. But ordered it from England!!!A pleasure to have a copy without Swedish translation on it.Found Chapmans edition in Library cellar and dug out everything else there concerning Jane Austen...Today I visited a Library to the north of Stockholm, in Upsala and found a book on Jane. Did I s end 14 crowns to copy the chapter on P&P? Have a guess!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:28)", "body": "I first bought P&P about 8 years ago and only read a few chapters because I couldn't stand Mrs. Bennet. Her constant pushing and manoeuverings to marry off her daughters drove me crazy, especially when she sent Jane to Netherfield out in the rain. That was it for me and I threw the book out. What an idiot I was! Fast forward to January 1996 I was watching Regis & Kathie Lee and during their chat KL mentioned that after a party, she and her mother decided to watch P&P2 (they had taped all of it). They were so hooked by it that they stayed up until 4 in the morning to watch it completely. I particularly recall her saying that after Darcy hands Lizzie into the carriage and she turns to look back at him that they were so enthralled and captivated by it that they had to stay up and finish it. She went on to rave about the story, the acting, the g eat looks CF gave and the whole romance of it all that I wished I had seen it. But it wasn't until August 96 that I got my chance to view it. Luckily, my local TV Guide had (you guessed it) Mrs. Bennet on the cover. I read the review and set my vcr ready for taping. That was the best thing I ever did. I've never in my life been so consumed by a television production (especially British). I enjoyed it so much that ever since I've read all JA's books, seen all the current movie releases, bought the music, nd even wrote some fan fiction. Thanks P&P2 for enriching my life!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "valen", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:39)", "body": "Just before turning 11, I discovered JA and P&P. Mr. Darcy stole my heart then, and ever after I wanted to be Lizzy, the smart, clever girl who so totally captured him. Saw Olivier years later in P&P0 and was quite put out! Foul fiends hadn't been true to the book! Though I thought Olivier good, I was disappointed. P&P1 was much better and I confess, I watched the tape over and over until I quit for fear of ruining the shop's only copy! Returned it relunctantly, I might add. But P&P2? Oh... (reverent breath) For me, I believe Carl names all the things that glued me to my seat as well as the set. I was stunned by the depth and scope, the richness and subtlety, and the incredible texture conveyed by the attention paid to every little detail. What drama! What suspense! What humour! What wit! What acting! My opinion is that P&P@ is a thinking man/woman's love story. Never once did I feel intellectually insulted. Did any of you? Yes, I have taped the tv version and await the time I can purchase the original 6 hr version. And every time I hear that resonating tone \"COME,\" I go willingly to view it once more..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (20:41)", "body": "Margarets story is much like my own...I had never read the book but I had seen the original black and white film version but it had not left an impression. One night I had crawled into bed and turned on the TV to drift off to sleep.....the channel was on A&E....it was a Saturday night....all of a sudden I couldn't sleep! This story on the TV was mesmerized. I remember as soon as they I realized that it was to be continued I could not wait until I found out when the next part would air...it was a long w ek.....after I had watched I wanted to buy the video set to have and watch whenever I wanted. My husband and I went into a book and video store and he was flipping thru some laser discs and said \"Hey Linda..isn't this that series you loved so much?\" I left with a package that day! I have just about worn my set out (I opted for the video set so I can watch it whenever I want) and I also enjoy it more everytime I watch it...I see something I hadn't seen before or enjoy a line of dialog that I can apprecia e the beauty of it and how JA used it to tell this beautiful story. No one I know has watched it or appreciated the book so when I found y'all...it was a great day! I have enjoyed the conference and chat group almost as much as the story! It's been a blast having others to drool with!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Vivsy", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "I have never seen any movie or read the book, just knew the name. I happened to catch in in the middle of episode 3, the first person I heard speak was Mr. Collins when they went to Hunsford. I was so repulsed by him I had to keep watching. When Darcy proposed and was soundly rejected I was hooked. Unfortunately for me it was on A&E Classroom, one episode a week. I got up at 5:30 a.m. every morning checking for it and didn't think to tape it when it was on until episode 6 which I watched over and over and over and over. Had to get the book to find out what happened at the beginning and bought the PP2 companion volume because it had a picture of HIM on it. That still was not enough. I called my video store and fortunately at Christmas 1996 they had it in stock. Bought it and watched it every night for a month. Then I made all my sisters watch it. They loved it too!! I thought I was weird because CF made such an impression on me. I'm glad you ladies are out there!!!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "P&P1 actually got me into the book. I remember very little of it, having seen it when I was ten (?). I liked it, though, and two years later I picked up a copy of the book, which I read several times throughout junior high and high school. Senior year, we read it in AP English (and we saw P&P0)...and that's when I discovered Emma and the other novels. In the fall of 1995, when I first saw the P&P2 trailers on A&E, I just about had a heart attack! OMIGOD, they're doing Pride and Prej dice!!! I yelled to my mother. Needless to say, I was right there in January/February when it was finally broadcast in the US...and it was wonderful! Comprehensive! Perfectly embellished! My only regret was that I had very few people to share it with back then. My friend Emily, who'd read only Persuasion , was kind enough to sit through it with me, though it was obvious that her interest wasn't so all-consuming as mine. Since, however, she has read P&P, Emma, and the copy of Mansfield Park I gave her as a graduation gift...another convert!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (00:49)", "body": "Somehow I managed to miss the January airings. Ironically in February, the school theather showed Persuasion and I was hooked; ran out and got the novel. I regularly watch A&E so in August my sister suggested we watch it and of course I was there. She didn't watch it (another irony) but I did. Initially I was quite concerned for myself; I loved this one even more than Persuasion and I loved Persuasion. I tried for months to figure out what it was that drew me back to watching this movie (again and ag in); Carl has summed it up most eloquently. I even watched P&P0 and P&P1 to see if they could recreate the magic and explain my obsession. True confession: When Darcy snubs Lizzy at Meryton, I could not stand that man. He was horrible or as Mrs. Bennet said, \"the proudest, most disagreeable man\" I was so happy she rejected his proposal; it was not right. The meeting at Pemberley started the change in my feelings toward Darcy. This all happened in August; thank goodness I found the BB in October."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "Karen; you must come closest to Lizzy's own feelings, for despite our wishes to the contrary, she doesn't like him until Pemberley, either. I almost wish I had not read the novel back in high school, because I think that my reaction to Darcy was colored by the knowledge that they end up together. I was very much a P&P! advocate, since I saw this version only a few years after I had read the novel. At the time, it was a very good, and long adaptation, and is still a favorite for certain parts (I still p efer Garvie in some scenes)."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (21:46)", "body": "(I still prefer Garvie in some scenes). As do I, Mari -- I thought she did a really good job."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (12:09)", "body": "Susan, I must have missed your earlier posts when we \"did\" P&P1. How happy I am to have a compatriot!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (19:01)", "body": "When I first viewed it on A&E I fell in love. I watched at 7:00 and re-watched at 9:00. Then taped episodes 2 and 3, and watched them until the cows came home. Looked up A&E on the net, found out when the re-broadcast was happening and printed it out, taped it all over our VCR for a month so as not to miss it. Then I taped it, and cut off my favorite scene! Then purchased my tapes at Costco, and the rest is history. A tape at a time, only an hour commitment at a time... life is good."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (19:02)", "body": "When I first viewed it on A&E I fell in love. I watched at 7:00 and re-watched at 9:00. Then taped episodes 2 and 3, and watched them until the cows came home. Looked up A&E on the net, found out when the re-broadcast was happening and printed it out, taped it all over our VCR for a month so as not to miss it. Then I taped it, and cut off my favorite scene! Then purchased my tapes at Costco, and the rest is history. A tape at a time, only an hour commitment It also got me reading again, and started o devour anything Jane I could get my hands on. Still have P&P by my bed, often look up favorite scenes."}, {"response": 33, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (20:23)", "body": "I hadn't gotten to this thread when I signed in as a newbie yesterday, so if you want to read about my first encounter with P&P, you can read it there. I have a tendency to ramble, so I won't duplicate the effort here. :-) Angela"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "Mari, I wasn't around for the P&P1 discussion, but I remember thinking during the first part of P&P2 that, except for CF's Darcy, I actually preferred that version. My opinion changed as I watched further (not about CF, however!), but I still rate Garvie's performance very highly. I remember being very impressed with her performance in the First Proposal scene, particularly. A tape at a time, only an hour commitment at a time... life is good. LOL, Andrea -- it really takes so little to please us, no? Angela, I found your post very entertaining -- welcome!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "Upon the first showing of P&P2, I noticed the listing in the TV Guide. Thought, Hmmm, this looks interesting...Luckily, it was on later than my son and husband stay up, so I was able to watch it on the \"good\" TV in the family room. From the very first scene, I was hooked! I drew my afgan (or as I affectionately call it my \"binkie\") around me and found myself all cuddled up in savoring every scene. I continued as such for the next two nights...cursing at each ending for two reasons 1.) that it was ove and 2.)My VCR was broken. When I realized that it was on again that next weekend, I was in heaven! As I was still not able to tape it, I had to sit and watch. As I had an appointment that afternoon with our office's computer technician, I had to call him to postpone the time of our meeting. When he asked why I was detained, I told him the truth. He understood slightly as his wife had had the same reaction to \"The Buccaneers\". He did, however, ask why we women have this reaction to these show . The only answer that I could give was that \"It was about a time in history when men still had manners\" ;-). When P&P2 was rebroadcast in August, I finally was able to tape it. Every saturday since was devoted to viewing. The following September or October, I found all of you and discovered the most precious information (ie: missing scenes, making of book, CD, etc.). Tried to tape the \"Classroom\" so that I would finally see those missing scenes and have a copy POST /yapp-bin/restricted/respond/aust n/212/new HTTP/1.0 Referer: http://208.199.212.10/yapp-bin/restricted/read/austen/212/new Connection: Keep-Alive User-Agent: Mozilla/2.01E-NC250 (Win16; U) Host: 208.199.212.10 Accept: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, */"}, {"response": 36, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (12:57)", "body": "Whoa -- what happened here?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (01:07)", "body": "Ooh Candace! Twilight Zone time! Eek!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "mpk", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (07:37)", "body": "When I read that A&E was going to air P&P, I thought, here's a chance to finally see a Jane Austen adaptation since I had missed all the theatrical productions. I was intrigued by the Jane Austen mania and had not yet ventured to read any of her books (don't see how I could have escaped reading any JA book in high school or college!). I loved it! I was impressed by how *smart* a production it was given it aired on the television airwaves...I loved the dialogue and was pleasantly surprised later that much of it came straight from the book. I must confess that I too came under Darcy's/CF's spell after Lizzie's accidental meeting with him at Pemberly! Darcy's manners, especially his contempt for everything outside of his circle, were appalling. Darcy becomes such a sweetheart, so agreeable and vulnerable (I just love the way he stammers as he tries to get his bearings when he sees Lizzie). Up to that time I had wondered how those two would ever get married in the end. I am simply obsessed with P&P and of course Colin...I now have two converts! One of them in particular, doesn't really care for \"period\" pieces and was puzzled by my obsession, that is, until she saw my P&P tapes. You know, P&P has in a way changed my life to a certain extent. It has taught me to get back in touch with that part of myself that isn't mom, wife, professional, daughter, et cetera, et cetera...I had forgotten how wonderful it is to lose oneself in literature (I have vowed to make time to read more often, that is, when I'm not in this conference or watching P&P for the upteenth time). Besides, drooling over CF just makes me feel giddy! P&P has also brought forth you sisters who have me LOL on many an occasion and thinking seriously about other subjects as well..."}, {"response": 39, "author": "mpk", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (07:40)", "body": "Whoops! Should be \"umpteenth\"..."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (07:51)", "body": "Marina, I know exactly what you mean about Austen helping with geting in touch with the non-Mom parts."}, {"response": 41, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (11:38)", "body": "\"geting in touch with the non-Mom parts.\" YES! YES! My goodness, I have never quite put my finger on why I have been so hooked. The comment about \"When men had manners\" was said in jest with a little edge of truth, but I believe this non-Mom idea is exactly it. I struggle constantly, juggling motherhood, wifehood, businesshood, etc. How many times, I have wished for just a moment to have a thought to myself! P&P does give me that. A chance to cuddle with my \"binkie\" and simply watch and enjoy. I do not even need to thin ...just clear the mind and say Ahhhhh."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (12:31)", "body": "in touch with the non-Mom This is so right. I have been much more selfish this last year and I am not ashamed of it! Like Virginia Woolf - no other comparisions made - I have got my own room now and am delighted. My things where I put them and the light on very late if I chose to read or write."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "\"In touch with the non-Mom parts\" How true! I have many moments when I don't seem to have any identity except Spencer's Mom. We get to drift away into another world for a little bit, where \"mom\" aspects don't seem to exist. I think I always pictured myself as Lizzy anyway, with her independant spirit. I'm not saying my self-picture is totally accurate, but I think she embodies much of what I think is valuable in a women's dispositon."}, {"response": 44, "author": "mpk", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (19:21)", "body": "Oh I totally agree with identifying with Lizzie! In my *younger* years I seemed to be more like her, doing battle and going against what was expected of me, with but with time, I have \"mellowed\" and I am apt to make sure I do not \"offend\" before I rattle on passionately about some of my more \"liberal\" ideals to some of my more staid and conservative family members...I just love the way Lizzie speaks her mind to Catherine de Bourgh! Funny thing though, my 10 year old thinks I'm Mrs. Bennett! Horrors! It's probably due to my *carrying on* when my 10 year old (self-appointed Jane)and 7 year old (self-appointed Lydia) are at each other's throats (which is often, much to my dismay)!!!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (08:04)", "body": "I knew it was coming on, but thought I would tape it and watch it later...never happened. I was glued to the set. As to why my tape is dragging and my book is worn out, I cant exactly explain. Maybe it is a refuge, the \"non-mom\" quiet time. I enjoy this BB, because you are all adults and use big words and express ideas and thoughts that mirror my own. Im not very good at getting thoughts channeled through my fingers. If I hadnt heard about the Austen Page on CNN I might have never looked."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (11:35)", "body": "in touch with the non-Mom This is so right. I have been much more selfish this last year and I am not ashamed of it! Like Virginia Woolf - no other comparisions made - I have got my own room now and am delighted. My things where I put them and the light on very late if I chose to read or write. Hmmmm. Does you so much good, don't it? Me too, me too."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (11:42)", "body": "Im not very good at getting thoughts channeled through my fingers. That thought came through loud and clear! This is a wonderful place to exercise thoughts and fingers (and brain, and friendship, and alot of other things too.)"}, {"response": 48, "author": "genie", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (11:59)", "body": "Dare I admit that I had hardly read any Austen before last year? I did read Emma for a book group about fifteen years ago and loved it. Why didn't I read all of Austen then? I really don't know. Anyway, in December 95 my daughter/movie partner and I went to see Sense & Sensibility and loved it. The next day we went to see Persuasion and loved it. So we went out and bought all of Austen, except Emma, which I had. We read all the novels in about two weeks. I remember reading P&P on a Friday. I star ed at 8 a.m. and I sat in bed all day and read until 5 p.m. I couldn't do anything else! That was two days before the A&E P&P but alas we do not have cable ---probably the only people in the U.S. My mother and my daughter taped it for me and I had the tape within a week. I sat and watched for six hours non-stop. I was disappointed with the ending the first time. I thought they should have included more D&L courtship scenes. But needless to say, I have since almost worn the tape out. My daughter an I would call each other long distance and watch it \"together\". We were/are both so addicted. Reading Jane Austen also got me reading more good stuff, like Middlemarch. I also discovered this family of like-minded fans to share the passion with. Thanks so much for so many laughs and insights and understanding all around."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (14:52)", "body": "Even though my college degrees are in English Literature, I had always managed to \"escape\" Jane Austen - I lumped her in with C. Bronte, and had always hated Wuthering Heights (alas, the foolishness of youth).....but, I saw Sense & Sensibility (mostly because I love Emma Thompson) and really liked it, so I thought I'd give P&P a try when it came on A&E last August. I was hooked immediately! I went out and bought the novel, and was just getting into it when hurricane Fran hit. We were without power for bout 8 days, so there was nothing to do except sit around, sweat, and read. I read and re-read until the poor book almost fell apart, all the candles burned out, and I gave myself eye fatigue. I kept picturing the actors in all the different scenes; needless to say, I purchased the videos as soon as I could. Now I can relax and feed my addiction at leisure - and in temperature controlled, well-lighted comfort!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (14:54)", "body": "Oops! Did I say \"sweat?\" Pardon me! We all know that gentlewomen \"glow,\" they do not perspire, and most certainly do not SWEAT! ;)"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (18:31)", "body": "Amen to Hurricane Fran, I think I reread S&S after Fran. and glowed abit myself reading by candlight. Ambience, but too much humidity!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (08:59)", "body": "I saw P & P2 for the the first time this winter and it was completely by chance. My dinner plans for the evening were canceled, so I opened a bottle of wine and settled in for the evening. Since I had no clue how long it was, I assumed A & E was broadcasting the entire show in one night - somehow I thought it was only 4 hours. Since I have read several JA novels, I knew Lizzy would marry him, so you can imagine my horror not only when she properly rejected his proposal, but that it ended there!!! I a tually yelled at the television \"No! it can't be over, I know she marries him! It better be on tomorrow!! The next day I had family plans. When I arrived at my mother's house, I told her we had to leave early because I could not miss the end of P & P2. My dad thought I was crazy than my mom, but at 6:45, I promptly left RI to head back to Boston. I guess I was addicted before I even knew it."}, {"response": 53, "author": "winter", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "ahh ha!...P&P2 over family gatherings. one of the many signs of knowing you're addicted. mine was rescheduling my evening phone calls to my boyfriend in boston around this past winter's rebroadcast. and i had already seen it many times before!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:50)", "body": "I atually yelled at the television \"No! it can't be over, I know she marries him! It better be on tomorrow!! LOL, Lynn -- I can just picture you doing this! How dare they!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (16:58)", "body": "I actually yelled at the television \"No! it can't be over, I know she marries him! It better be on tomorrow!! I watched P&P0 in a golden-oldies theater a few year ago. Two young women behind me shouted \"NO!!\" when Garson rejected Olivier's first proposal."}, {"response": 56, "author": "MUSHER", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (03:49)", "body": "I was really impressed by the casting of P&P,like Gone With The Wind each one was perfectly cast. Her Mother had a voice like dragging you fingernails down a blackboard which was perfect for her part. CF was the ultimate Darcy. I had not been paying a great deal of attention until the scene where they were having their discussion on vanity and pride then I sat up and said this man is really somerhing else he has taken a story book character and breathed the breath of life into him. When he was walking b ck to Rosings you could sense all his anger, pain and frustration just in the way he walked. When he was writing to her about his sister I could have cried for him the pain in his eyes was unbelievable. Lucie Oftedahl"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (15:44)", "body": "CF was the ultimate Darcy . I had not been paying a great deal of attention until the scene where they were having their discussion on vanity and pride then I sat up and said this man is really something else he has taken a story book character and breathed the breath of life into him. ...the way he walked..... the pain in his eyes Now Lucie this is what I like to hear."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:24)", "body": "Yes, Lucie and Ann2 -- that really says it all, and so well!!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "winter", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (17:49)", "body": "i agree with you lucie: the casting was perfect, especially alison steadman was mrs. bennet. wanna see a drastic change in appearance/character? watch mike leigh's (her husband) \"life is sweet\". anyone see it? she plays the mother of twin girls (now in their twenties), and is just the sweetest, cutest mother. she laughs constantly, which is both amusing and slightly annoying at the same time. you can also see her in this year's 'secrets and lies.\" she plays a dog groomer who goes to get her dog's picture aken at a studio. (a BIT part)"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (21:01)", "body": "She is married to Mike Leigh? Cool. David Bamber is in another of his. High Hopes?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (02:03)", "body": "Does this mean she will be with her husband at the Oscars (since he is nominated?)"}, {"response": 62, "author": "winter", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (00:11)", "body": "it's likely. unless HE's not showing up. but i think he will since he's been appearingin every other pre-oscar thing here in l.a. (BTW, i just wanted to share: oscar mania is DEFINITELY in high gear right now. i live behind the shrine auditorium, and we've already got people getting the area ready. it's total madness. it's gonna be another year of being a prisoner in my own home. (they block of the area for people and press trying to get in and out).if you see any helicopter shots, watch for the madwoman waving from a rooftop.. that'll be me!)"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (17:00)", "body": "Winter, what color hankie will you be waving (or will it be a muff, perhaps...)"}, {"response": 64, "author": "winter", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "ooohhh... never thought of bringing along props to help me out! how about a big, huge sign saying, \"jeremy northam for best actor--1998!\" ;)"}, {"response": 65, "author": "jennyh", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (10:50)", "body": "I have watched P&P2 less than a month ago the first time within a couple of weeks of reading the book. Most of characters fit my imagination of what they would be like if it is a real situation (?) except Mr. Bingley. I must agree with Lucie on CF \"breathing the breath of life into him\". (I wish I am capable of writing as well as many of you do.... SIGH). I am actually afraid to watch other movies with CF in because they may spoil the image of Darcy for me. I can understand Darcy's reaction to his su roundings in many situations (to my horror in some cases). That may be another reason that I love P&P. Anyway, I love this superb adaptation of P&P. At this point, I try not to watch it because I am addicted too much to do any work during the day. (day dreaming ....)"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (11:07)", "body": "You are one of us, Jenny. That much is clear."}, {"response": 67, "author": "jennyh", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (11:26)", "body": "One more thing! I cannot say any better than Marina's expression of \"getting in touch with non-Mom parts\". I am kicking myself that I had not read many books recently. I am planning to convert one of the room in the house we just moved into a reading room with music at some point! Jenny"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (12:08)", "body": "Aha. Another convert to the \"Room for me\" movement. Very civilised. Very Regency. Very necessary! No, Ann2?"}, {"response": 69, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (15:33)", "body": "Yes, Amy dear.(LOL at R f m-movement) And Jenny, from what I hear, you are going to need it. A place to indulge in your obsessions. Don't be to hard on yourself.Some day-dreaming can be very beneficial."}, {"response": 70, "author": "jennyh", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "I am sorry that I was not clear. I wish I have a room to myself. However, it is not possible in my situation. All my family members love to listen to music (all different tastes though). We will share the music/reading room which is a living room right now. Converting the room will not happen for another 3 to 5 years."}, {"response": 71, "author": "winter", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (19:27)", "body": "jenny-- i can understand yous situation, and everyone else who posted about having \"one's own room\". i spent the first part of my life sharing a room with my grandmother, which was a real positive learning experience, but at the same time, \"confining.\" it's hard to grow up and not have the freedom to post pictures on your wall of various actors/singers/etc. you have crushes on, listen to your own music, do anything you please, in general. it wasn't till i left for home at 18 when i finally got SOME space. my first three years in university were in dorms, which is a little better, but still not completely \"mine.\" moved in with my boyfriend during our last year at univ, and though it was a one bedroom, we managed to create our own spaces-- i the bedroom and he the living room (believe me, it was an equal compromise). anyway, Jeremy Northam pictures plastered on my walls, favorite books piled on shelves, floor, nightstand, P&P2 constantly cu d on the vcr... it took 18 years but i'm free at last! i hope everyone gets a room, and a person that understands WHY we need our own rooms every once in a while..."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (19:47)", "body": "] and a person that understands WHY we need our own rooms every once in a while... __ Winter, that may be the material point."}, {"response": 73, "author": "jennyh", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (20:41)", "body": "My situation was and is quite opposite of yours, Winter. I had had \"my own room\" for close to 30 years although I had never brought myself decorating it. (I had a crush on some celebrities, but their pictures were in my drawer rather than on the wall.) Anyhow since I met my beau, I have not had my own room. On the top of that, now I am working for him in a way and I see him almost 24 hours a day. Maybe it is about time to tell him that I need my space once in a while."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (21:58)", "body": "This is one reason I don't like many modern home designs. They are all about great rooms and opening up the space. I would prefer it to be broken up into smaller areas which one can claim as one's own. I love my parent's house for this reason; there are lots of different rooms one can get away in. My bedroom is the best spot in the house: it used to be an old dutch-style windmill, the bedroom is on the second floor, is six-sided with slanting walls, a very high ceiling and windows on the north, south-west south, and southeast (with its pwn bathroom too). It's a great room."}, {"response": 75, "author": "janea", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (04:55)", "body": "Oh, Ann, that sounds so lovely! Like som many others I don\ufffdt have that room of my own. Sometimes I miss it, that feeling when you close the door behind you and is alone with yourself. I love all the comments about \"getting in touch with your non-Mom parts\". That\ufffds just the way it is. To allow oneself to be romantic and perhaps a little bit selfish. I don\ufffdt think that is all bad. If you shall be able to give something to and take care of others, you\ufffdll have to take care of yourself first."}, {"response": 76, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (15:02)", "body": "Regency ladies had \"dressing rooms\", basically for themselves alone (if their house was big enough -- I doubt if Mrs. Price had one at Portsmouth)"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (15:09)", "body": "The old Mrs. Darcy also had a sort of office, too, no? I think Lizzy ought to have her own study in Pemberley that would not be in as much of public area. She could have a piano there, and a computer and stereo... no laundry room, of course."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (16:28)", "body": "Amy, how about including a TV and VCR for Lizzie's room - than she could see her beloved Darcy even if he was away from home!!;-)"}, {"response": 79, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (17:24)", "body": "The first time it was on, I saw the first night, but for some reason didn't take out the commercials. The night I was out and forgot to tape it and was ready to scream, but my DH reminded me it would be on again that night. So taped it while I slept, and then the last night I made sure I was there, remote in hand to pause during the ads. So some of the best scenes are without ads between them. I think I will buy the tapes when I can find them a little cheaper (money is tight, but we must have our prio ities!!) I really like P&P1 when I watched it, as it was wonderful to have a dramatization of my favorite novel, but I much prefer this one. CF has so much more expression than David Rintoul (sp?) did, in his eyes, etc. Jenny, I too and very hesitant to watch other CF movies, as he IS Darcy to me. I am afraid seeing him in somthing else would spoil it for me. THe people I work with also like JA, but none has my obsession, so I felt vindicated when I found all of you!! THe first time I read P&P was in high school, taught by a teacher who had a bumper sticker on the wall of her classroom that said \"I'd rather be reading jane Austen\" (probably there are more out there, but I didn't really understand it af first). I LOVED P&P. I bought a beautiful copy for my mom, thinking she would love it too, but I now have the book, so what does that tell you? I will never understand why I didn't read the rest of JA then, but I did a couple years ago and could read them over and ove . Thank you all for teaching me that I'm not the only one out there that feels this way!! And that it's ok to feel this way."}, {"response": 80, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (17:55)", "body": "Inko, and how about a PC and modem, too, so she could hook in with us here!"}, {"response": 81, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "Cindy, Amy had already given her a computer and a stereo!! You're right, though, the modem connection is definitely necessary - so there would have to be a phone jack!!;-)"}, {"response": 82, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (06:16)", "body": "My first time of seeing P&P2 was my first time of knowing there was JA, knowing there was P&P, and it was when: My mother was watching chapter 3 of P&P2, and I glanced at the TV, and couldn't take my eyes off, not that I understood the story, I thought Caroline Bingley was Lady Catherine, and Jane was just Lizzy's friend, but the preposual scene was everything for me, I fell in love with JA. (To be really honest, my first time of seeing P&P was two minutes, when I was at my friends' and the TV was open, but it doesn't count) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 18, "subject": "On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to me", "response_count": 26, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "fen", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (14:49)", "body": "a handwritten letter from Lizzie, indicating the time of her visit on Christmas Eve"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (15:02)", "body": "Holodeck program: me and Darcy in the pond."}, {"response": 3, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (19:58)", "body": "A group of friends w/ whom I can share my passion for any and all things Jane Austen -- but wait, I already have that! So then, I want for nothing but to be able to wish all these friends a very happy holiday season."}, {"response": 4, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (21:44)", "body": "Count me in for the holodeck : a personal tour of Pemberly, version 2.0 if not available a fun filled 2 week vacation as Lizzy or, if D'Arcy not available a fun filled romance with Colonel Fitswilliam, and an allowance according to needs"}, {"response": 5, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (06:59)", "body": "on the second day of Christmas, my true love gave to me/ two tete-a-tetes/ and a French kiss with \"Hunk a\" Darcy/"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (14:15)", "body": "Holodeck program? Please explain. I've been wondering about some parlour games as presents for P&P people. What do you think of 'Pass Out' ,a drinking game for Mr. Hurst? 'Scuples\" for E&D (not v. romantic I grant you) 'Balderdash' for the Wickhams?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (14:31)", "body": "\"Holodeck\" is a Star Trek invention where real people can program a novel or situation with made up people and interact with them in a special holographic room. Is that clear? :-) Amy, may I borrow your program from time to time? Re games: How about \"Outburst\" for Mrs. Bennet, \"Trivial Pursuit\" for Mr. Collins, \"Monopoly\" for Lady Catherine, \"Stratego\" for Wickham, \"Solitaire\" for Mary..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (18:23)", "body": "Forget Games Darcy wrapped in green ribbon with a sprig of mistletoe tucked in it."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (19:45)", "body": "Oh, Caroline, I like your idea very much indeed! But he should be wet and nude so as to not damage the wrapping paper, and with a stragically placed bow, maybe two, one left and one right, just in case!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "PatK", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (19:53)", "body": "Amy -- I too wish to borrow your holodeck program. Could program all of the great scenes and go from the dance to the pond to the music room (for 'the look')"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (19:56)", "body": "stragically placed bow, maybe two, one left and one right, ????? Cheryl, imagination fails me; I can think of an appropriate placement for one bow, centrall, but one left and one right? you might encounter some resistance there...."}, {"response": 12, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (20:40)", "body": "The Big Guy from the North Pole can just bring me Colin's signed contract to star in another Austen film in 1997. If he can't twist his (C's) arm enough for that, then I'll accept the greenbowed/mistletoed gift mentioned in the above entries."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (01:25)", "body": "Holodeck: in those buttercups."}, {"response": 14, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (11:48)", "body": "I'd like to reserve the Holodeck from the buttercups on. I'm a greedy girl."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (16:37)", "body": "No Bows, no bows, I Beg you! Wet OR dry, costumed however. I'm not fussy, I'm not proud.......... Anyway, Cheryl, what's the good of a present that you don't have to unwrap, first?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (16:48)", "body": "Right and left bows were intended, no doubt, for right and left thigh. But where, prey tell, the mistletoe?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (16:59)", "body": "I'll take a tub'o mirth with firth .You'll have to rent \"Bridges of Madison County\". To know what I mean or maybe not."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (22:39)", "body": "\"Right and left bows were intended, no doubt, for right and left thigh. But where, prey tell, the mistletoe?\" Elaine, I shall leave that to your very active imagination! :-)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (00:37)", "body": "I want a holodeck too. I will program him (would it be an it or a him?) to be my exercise partner. We will take long walks and play golf and tennis. And when I am tired, I will program him to prefer to lie down and rest with me until tomorrow."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (01:04)", "body": "\"Tub o' mirth with Firth\"? ROTFLOL!!!!!!! I hope CF's mother doesn't have o computer OR a modem! ;)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (13:15)", "body": "\"I hope CF's mother doesn't have o computer OR a modem! ;)\" I bet she loves it. At least, I hope she is getting used to it!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (16:19)", "body": "How about a Time Machine back to the Regency -- but just for a couple of weeks?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (18:54)", "body": "It can send me back permanently."}, {"response": 24, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (23:09)", "body": "\"It can send me back permanently.\" Only if I get to be rich while I am there. With my heritage, I would more likely me kitchen help!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (06:42)", "body": "Amy Wolf (amy2): ] How about a Time Machine back to the Regency -- but just for a couple of weeks? Kali Pappas (Kali): ] It can send me back permanently. Katy Kendall (kendall): ] Only if I get to be rich while I am there. With my heritage, I would more likely me kitchen help! ___ My ancestors who were in England at the time were small farmers like Robert Martin or shopkeepers like Mrs. Ford of Highbury (see my genealogy pages) -- respectable, but not at all \"genteel\"."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (04:08)", "body": "\"With my heritage, I would more likely me kitchen help!\" My mom keeps trying to tell me this, Katy, but I refuse to believe her. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 180, "subject": "Col.Fitzwilliam in love with Lizzy?", "response_count": 106, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 1997 (22:36)", "body": "I have mused at why Lizzy didn't fall for him more: very pleasing manners, very good conversation, good looking, Lizzy's prior preference for a certain officer, his attentions, ..."}, {"response": 2, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (00:29)", "body": "An alliance between Col. Fitzwilliam and Lizzie is something in which the Tenant book would be quite inaccurate to the times in proposing. As a younger son of a titled family, the Col. could not consider marrying a woman who did not have a fortune of her own, and Lizzie would have been well aware of this. A light flirtation is all that was ever likely to come out of their acquaintance."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (05:32)", "body": "If I recall correctly, Emma Tennant suggested more than mere flirtation between Lizzy and Fitzwilliam. Personally , it was an appalling book to read. I thought Fitzwilliam was interested in her, being a pretty face and sharing lively conversation with. But much later in the visit, he commented on his habits of expense that made it impossible for him to marry as he chose. Perhaps he too had a story to tell.. of overcoming attraction to Lizzy and realising (being a more respectable and sensible man than Wickham) that it was impossible not to marry into wealth - and admitted it to Lizzy in their stroll (he wanted to let her know.. if his case had been ifferent - she might have been his heart's desire to). I cannot tell on Elizabeth's part - perhaps Fitzwilliam was nothing out of the ordinary gentleman type person - no additional attraction like in Darcy."}, {"response": 4, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (06:36)", "body": "I always got the impression (from the book) that Fitzwilliam was quite attracted to E, and that if things had been different he might have proposed to her (ie if she had had money). There's a brief conversation between them when he is talking about the trials of being a younger son and of not being able to marry where he chooses. E asks herself \"Is this meant for me?\" and blushes. So I think that she at least thought the Colonel liked her and was trying in the gentlest possible way to explain why he couldn't do anything about it."}, {"response": 5, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (11:25)", "body": "I agree with you, Kate. I think Fitzwilliam would have pursued his interest if either party had had wealth. As it was though, I think that both he and Lizzie had the silent understanding, even before he says his piece, that any union between them would be impossible."}, {"response": 6, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (13:06)", "body": "But don't you think that maybe secretly he knew about his cousin's feelings for Lizzy? The reason I bring this up is because at the piano when Lizzy says to Col. that Darcy will have him hate her (I don't have the book in front of me) and Darcy retaliates by letting her know that she does not intimidate him. Right there I got the feeling that Col knew something was up with his cousin. Now I could be wrong, but MHO."}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "He must have known. Darcy's strange behavior on that first visit to Hunsford; his obvious admiration during the piano scene. Poor Fitzwilliam couldn't have been totally dense!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "OK here's some more fairly obvious clues from the book. At the first dinner at Rosings (Ch31) Col F was really glad to see them (ie theHunsford crowd) \"Mrs Collins's pretty friend had moreover caught his fancy very much\" Later, re his regular visits to Hunsford, Lizzy notes his \"evident admiration of her\" which reminds her of Wickham. Also, Charlotte sometimes imagine Lizzy marrying him. Yeah, and I am prepared to admit he might have had some inkling of Darcy's situation - especially because D keeps putting off their departure."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (18:59)", "body": "Found P&P and read thru chpt 33 again. I tried to, but cannot get the impression that F. had that inkling of D's situation. It sounded rather more like F was himself so caught up with his own 'handicap' that he didn't realise D's interest in the same person. Lady Catherine was obviously amazed at how much attention Lizzy was getting from both F & D."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "I agree with Laura...I think he must have seen the looks that Darcy and Lizzy gave each other and the bantering back and forth had to have given him a clue of the tension between them. He may have felt some similar feelings but I believe he would have backed off if he even had an inkling that Darcy was interested in Lizzy....or even if he might now approve of Lizzy....Darcy was a strong and forceful man and in he himself said that he tried to stay away from ridicule from others....I would imagine his fri nds and close family would have respected him and held his opinion in high esteem. He seemed to be the one they all looked to (example is Bingley wanting his blessing in his relationship with Jane) for approval. I believe that Col. Fitzwilliam would want the same from Darcy."}, {"response": 11, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "[But don't you think that maybe secretly he knew about his cousin's feelings for Lizzy?] He must have known. Darcy's strange behavior on that first visit to Hunsford; his obvious admiration during the piano scene. Poor Fitzwilliam couldn't have been totally dense! Ditto! Or, perhaps he could not help but think that Elizabeth showed no particular partiality toward Darcy. And she may have even seemed friendlier to Fitzwilleam since she just had more to say to him than she did Darcy. ('I like her and I think she likes me, but he likes her....}"}, {"response": 12, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (11:01)", "body": "The way that the piano scene is played in P&P2 -- Lizzie definitely seems to be flirting with Darcy, though she might not even realize it. Surely Fitzwilliam would pick up that there is SOMETHING between these two!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (11:17)", "body": "Lets totally ignore the mini series and go by what Austen wrote, I still feel that Col Fitzwilliam knew of Darcy's great admiration for this young woman. They way he tells Lizzy how he has heard a great deal about her. When she says it must have been all bad he says no indeed. He knew exactly why Darcy would be talking up a storm of Lizzy."}, {"response": 14, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "The Colonel is clearly NOT in love with Miss Bennett at all. You simply have a pleasant sort of attraction, not serious. Not even to the level of flirting. Just good drawing-room and park banter. Col Fitzwilliam is merely better at good conversation than Darcy. He's no fool and like most men is probably sensible to some kind of attraction between is friend Darcy and Elizabeth, and would not want to interfere in any sense. Darcy has NOT explicitly revealed his feelings about Elizabeth to FItzwilliam! Of course there is the second, but major consideration of money. The Colonel merely esteems her, likes her. He cannot consider any serious relationship with Miss Bennett."}, {"response": 15, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:22)", "body": "No but he does fancy her. But he knows of the attraction between Darcy and Lizzy. He is not a nikumpoop(sp). Lizzy is described as being very quick and lively. Of course, Fitzwilliam's countenance is much nicer than Darcy. In any situation, Fitzwilliam feels comfortable, Darcy does not."}, {"response": 16, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:59)", "body": "Laura -- In the book, as I recall, Fitzwilliam does not tell Elizabeth that he has heard a great deal about her, or even that Darcy has mentioned her. We cannot be certain that she was ever discussed by the two cousins, before, during or after the Rosings visit. I agree that he may suspect that Darcy is attracted to Elizabeth, however, and he may figure out more on their return trip (back to London?)."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (02:19)", "body": "These last few postings had me diving for the novel again.. yes, Fitwilliam does not mention having heard about her from Darcy. Though, I think Darcy said (when in Pemberly) to Lizzy, that his sister had heard much of her. The bantering between Darcy and Lizzy at the pianoforte sounded more like a pair of acquaintances (that didn't get along) power-playing in idle conversation. \"You mean to frighten me, Mr Darcy.. though your sister does play so well..\" \"..you could not really believe me to entertain any design of alarming you..you find great enjoyment in ocassionally professing opinions which in fact are not your own.\" \"It is very ungenerous in you to mention all that you know to my disadvantage..\" It ends with Darcy 'giving-in' to her with a praise at her music. This must have amused Fitzwilliam, but he would have known Darcy, with all his wealth and connection, would & could not fall for her. Afterall, Darcy had prevented Bingley from such a similar connection and Fitzwilliam knew of that. So I don't think Fitzwilliam suspected Darcy's attraction. He might have thought about her for himself only as good, lively conversation, since he too knew the value of a good income."}, {"response": 18, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (06:38)", "body": "Serena, I think that's a goold point about the wealth thing. Although don't forget that in Bingley's case there were objections against Jane's family. F doens't know that Lizzy is from the same family, doesn't know how bad her relatives are. While he knows HE has to maney for money, he knows that Darcy, is, in a sense, freed by his wealth to marry where he likes, and \"He likes to have his own way very well\" according to F. So I'm not so sure that F would have thought the Darcy would refuse to consider Lizzy."}, {"response": 19, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "Going straight by the book, we know that Fitzwilliam explicitly gives Lizzie a big hint that he CAN'T marry her; that Darcy keeps postponing their departure from Rosings; that there is some bantering between Darcy & Lizzie at the piano in Fitzwilliam's presence. Had Fitzwilliam ever seen Darcy so lively before in conversation with a young woman? I still maintain he would have been a complete idiot if he hadn't picked up that there was SOMETHING between these two!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (13:58)", "body": "If you don't mind me adding, that my overall impression was that the Col was attracted to Lizzie. He was probably bemoaning his fate as a 2nd son, and said too much, belying his attraction. In general, I find most men unaware of unspoken feelings. Do you think they were more sensative almost two centuries ago?!!:-) (ha, ha)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "Noted Kate, but Fitzwilliam must be aware that Lizzy cannot be from an 'acceptable' enough family for Darcy; she lives with the parish family as a friend of his wife and cousin of Mr Collins. Can I assume that Col. Fitzwilliam would have known about the family's desire of Darcy and Anne's 'engagement'? His comment to Lizzy (during their piano chat)that he would like to know how Darcy acts in public perhaps showed that he saw no difference in Darcy's behaviour at Rosings that night with any other night wh n he was amongst relations. Personally I'm inclined to agree with Yeago resp#20 that Fitwilliam was thinking of his attraction to Lizzy. I like this topic very much, there;s so much to speculate on .. thank you for introducing it Jessica."}, {"response": 22, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (20:44)", "body": "what about Fitzwilliam's comment the first time meeting Lizzy that Darcy is lively enough in other places? can't remember if that was a P&P2ism or in the book, but the Col. is obviously meant to be aware that Darcy finds Rosings generally stifling. His not knowing how Darcy behaved among strangers isn't too surprising, though, since he (Darcy) doesn't tend to go out with masses of his non-acquaintances. I have no idea what my point is"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (21:14)", "body": "Wouldn't Col Fitzwilliam have thought it strange to have Darcy want him to go and confirm all he had told Lizzy in the letter after the first proposal? Why would Darcy care what Lizzy thought? There has to be something there between them. The book does not say whey Mr. Darcy and the Col. were waiting for her at Rosings....but the Col. stays for at least an hour waiting....either Darcy had asked him to wait or he wanted to wait...why?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (21:17)", "body": "I always thought that Col F. waited at Hunsford for Lizzy because he wanted to say goodby to her personally. Although I see the possibility that Darcy might have asked him to see her, that seems awfully awkward. Hard to say for certain."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (02:25)", "body": "Cindy, I think you just supported the point that Col Fitzwilliam was not aware that Darcy was interested in Lizzy since he appeared more lively that one night at Rosings. (when Lizzy played) BUT unfortunately, that was not in the book (unless I missed it) Col Fitzwilliam verifying the truths in the letter - I think that was meant as a reassurance to Lizzy in case she doubted Darcy's sincerity. I agree with Kathleen here, I doubt if Dacry had told Col. Fitwilliam to wait around at Hunsford parsonage to reaffirm it. Fitz. just wanted to see her before he left - afterall, the last thing he heard about Lizzy was that she was indisposed to dine at Rosings. It could have a gesture of good breeding to see her for the last time, seeing how he had 'charmed' her th oughout his visit."}, {"response": 26, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (09:20)", "body": "]he appeared more lively that one night at Rosings In Darcy's story, Aylmer has F comment to D that he appeared more animated than usual at the Rosings dinner. But as I said on the DS Oops thread, this may be misleading, becuase in P&P, Austen has Charlotte, at the end of Ch32, noticing that Fitzwilliam laughs at Darcy for being \"stupid\" (meaning silent), suggesting this was unlike his normal demeanour. Aylmer has F and D discussElizabeth, with F slying suggesting that Darcy might be interested, Darcy implying that F is interested, and F admitting that money made her unavailable to him, but not to Darcy."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (09:27)", "body": "Since Darcy specifically told Lizzy that she could apply to Col. Fitz for the truth of the facts related in his letter, and he knew that the Col. was, like him, planning to leave later that day, he must have asked his cousin to stick around for a while in case Lizzy wanted to question him. It must have been awkward, though, for him to make this request of the Col.--what reason would he give? But he could hardly expect Lizzy to apply to Fitz by letter."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (09:32)", "body": "I love the way the word \"stupid\" was used then. Like at the Meryton assembly."}, {"response": 29, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (09:44)", "body": "I'm still not sure Darcy would have said anything to Fitzwilliam about it. It seems to me that he didn't really think that E would feel comfortable discussing such private and embarrassing matters with F. I think he put it in the letter to give him a bit more truth and power to what he was saying. ie \" I want you to know I'm not making this up. F knows all about it\" But I think he really believes she won't ask F, that the power of his own words ( and her embarrassment) would be enough. I don't think e would have gone through the embarrassment of discussing it with F on the very small chance that Lizzy would be brazen enough to bring it up with him. I think he knows she is too well-bred for that."}, {"response": 30, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:15)", "body": "Kate, I agree with you. I don't think Darcy actually mentioned anything to Col. F. about the contents of the letter -- he was just using the Colonel's name as another authority. It seems to me that Darcy's being \"stupid\" at Rosings and Hunsford shows that HE'S ACTING DIFFERENTLY AROUND LIZZIE, which is itself a little hint to Fitzwilliam, yes? I have to ask again: _When_ has Fitzwilliam seen Darcy so lively around a young woman, as D. is during the piano scene? Whenever Darcy is around Lizzy at Rosin s, he's either thrown into silence, or makes an attempt to be lively to match her. Since this isn't his usual behavior there, wouldn't F. know that something's up?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:25)", "body": "Yes, Amy, I think he would."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:36)", "body": "Wait an hour at Rosings just to say goodbye because of good breeding? I don't think so. That is a long time to be in the company of Mr. Collins just to say goodbye to someone because of manners...especially since Darcy left and he stayed."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (12:38)", "body": "What a fun little topic! Personally I think Col. F. liked Elizabeth and was definitely attracted to her. Now he should have been aware that Darcy was not acting himself but as someone else posted, I think Col F. was too caught up in this infatuation to notice. We have to be careful in trying to separate the novel from the adaptation. In the novel, Col F. was about thirty, not handsome , but in person and address most truly the gentleman. Also in their initial meeting, Lizzy and Col. F. do not have the conversation in the novel which they do in P&P2. However, Col F. makes an interesting comment during the Rosing's banter which was not in P&P2. When Lizzy asks him why Darcy is ill qualified to recommend himself to strangers, Col F. says \"I c n answer your question without applying to him. It is because he will not give himself the trouble.\" NOw clearly Darcy is putting himself to the trouble of speaking to Elizabeth at that time. Regarding Col F. hanging around Hunsford, he wanted to bid Elizabeth goodbye for himself. He's saying good bye to his pretty bantering partner. I don't think Darcy said a word about the Georgiana affair. Bottom line, he may have noticed Darcy's altered behavior but Lizzy wasn't responding to Darcy; Lizzy was responding to him and he was enjoying it."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (19:11)", "body": "I think Col. Fitzwilliam was trying to help his cousin and friend. His cousin had spoken of Lizzy, so he knew that his cousin had an attachment. I think he was trying to check out to see if she would be an appropriate person (she passed the test I think). I think he was really just trying to help, and have some fun conversation at a place that was dreadfully boring."}, {"response": 35, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (20:27)", "body": "I don't believe this was in the book either, but wouldn't Col F. have noticed Darcy's great agitation when he returned to Rosings the infamous night of the proposal? Surely he could detect his agitation of mind, and guess the source?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (02:56)", "body": "In response to Amy2 : \"When has Fitzwilliam seen Darcy so lively around a young woman, as D. is during the piano scene? Whenever Darcy is around Lizzy at Rosings, he's either thrown into silence, or makes an attempt to be lively to match her. Since this isn't his usual behavior there, wouldn't F. know that something's up?\" End of Chpt 32 :\"Why Mr Darcy came so often and not speak.Mrs Collins knew not what to make of him. Col Fitz's occassionally laughing at his stupidity, proved that he was generally different, (ie. generally lively) which her (Mrs Collins) knowledge of him could not have told her.. The silence bit is perhaps a puzzle to Fitzwilliam. I still cannot find anything in the novel to indicate that Fitzwilliam was aware of Darcy's regard for Lizzy. He seems 'above' such suspicions being too preoccupied with her."}, {"response": 37, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (14:24)", "body": "I agree with Amy. Col F knows his cousin's behaviour and must have seen the differences Darcy exhibited when he was around Lizzie. He must have had an inkling that there was at least an attraction on Darcy's part or conscious of the fact that Lizzie was the first woman who stirred up this kind of reaction in Darcy. As for Col F being in love with Lizzie, I think he, like Darcy was attracted to her but soon realized that he couldn't let it develop into love because he was aware that he had to marry for mon y and not for love."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (21:00)", "body": "Col F knows his cousin's behaviour. Lisa, this has just crystallised something that has nagged me for a long time.Darcy and Fitzwilliam are cousins, Fitzwilliam has seen him in the company of his family, and has heard him boast of saving his friend Bingley from a most improper marriage. He is also Georgiana's guardian,and knows all about the Ramsgate affair.That doesn't mean that he knows or understands Darcy well.He has never struck me as being a particularly perceptive person, for all his pleasantness, and I cannot find anything in the bo k to to suggest that he did put 2and 2 together as regards Darcy and Lizzie."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (03:12)", "body": "That's exactly it Caroline, there's nothing in the book to indicate his 'awareness'. I went through those chapters so many times since this topic was raised and would have loved to have discovered a love-triangle. Even if Lizzy had checked-out the facts of the letter with Col. Fitz., the topics raised would not have indicated a marriage proposal had been made. Perhaps Col Fitz would have thought it to be merely Lizzy's clarification about Wickham's character, arising from her being newly acquainted with him. (Fitz being one of the executors of the late Darcy's will)."}, {"response": 40, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (11:52)", "body": "IMHO -- I believe that the Col. was indeed smitten with Lizzie, not in love, just simply smitten. In turn Lizzie was smitten with the Col. I had the opinion that his sole purpose is to show a contrast between himself and Darcy. The way in which the Col. so eloquently lets Lizzie know that there could never be anything between them so severly contrasts the way in which Darcy proposes. They each more or less say the same thing regarding her monetary means, but the Col. is all ease and politeness here as Darcy is insulting."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "Smitten, hmmmmm, I'll give you smitten in the sense that he reacted to a lively attracted woman. I still maintain that he was astute enough to know his cousin was attracted to Lizzy (comments about hearing praise about her ). I may probably be picking this up from the adaptation, not the novel."}, {"response": 42, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (21:17)", "body": "If Col. F. wasn't aware that _something_ was up between Darcy and Miss Bennet, that would mean he's a bit of a doofus. Wouldn't he at least be as perceptive as Charlotte, who likes to imagine that Darcy IS in love with her fr Maybe JA meant to give us a hint with her \"laughing at his stupidity\" line. I like to give the poor Colonel a little credit, I guess. . ."}, {"response": 43, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (21:19)", "body": "That should read \"friend.\" Grrr. I HATE 28.8. Back to the T1 tomorrow!!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (00:07)", "body": "Candace, that's a fresh approach. Col Fitzwilliam presence as a contrast to Mr Darcy. I like it. Though Charlotte did suspect Darcy and though Fitz. did laugh at Darcy's 'stupidity' - I still cannot convince myself that he suspected anything between Darcy and Lizzy, doofus or not.."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (08:21)", "body": "Didn't Charlotte say something to Lizzy about Mr Darcy's attentions at Lucas Lodge? Was that in the book? Unless Darcy said someting of his attraction to ColF, he probably wouldn't suspect anything serious. After all Lizzie is beneath Darcy (But would ColF know That, her staying at the rectory and all). I really think women are more perceptive than men in these matters. Esp back then, their sole goal was to get married, they had to keep an eye out!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "I do believe that the Col had some interest in Lizzy, but not in love. But his ease of manner made Darcy jealous - we keep forgetting that Darcy is shy. He surrounds himself with outgoing people - Wickham, the Col. , Bingley - so he does not have to talk. When he meets Lizzy, it's the first time he tries to join in conversations. He is at a loss and tries to imitate his cousin. I also believe the Col was clueless about Darcy's feelings. Unlike Charlotte, he did not see what was going on because he did not know to how to look. Remember, Charlotte declared herself unromantic - marriage was a good business deal. She was Darcy had some interest in Lizzy and was hoping for a excellent match for her friend."}, {"response": 47, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (11:10)", "body": "Yes, in the book Charlotte does mention her suspicions to Lizzie. But Lizzie just laughs it off, because she tells of Darcy's silences whenever they meet. Are we saying that women (Charlotte) are more perceptive than men (the Colonel) in picking up on the vibes of romance?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (12:31)", "body": "I don't know if it is all women, or rather Charlotte in particular, but isn't it interesting that someone who married for totally pragmatic reasons, who never thought to wait for or expect love, is the most perceptive about the symptoms of interest and love for her friend. She was on to Darcy's attentions, and judged their source rightly, from the time of the evening at Lucas Lodge \"Mr. Darcy certainly looks at you a great deal, Lizzy.\" I think that she always believed that Darcy was attracted to Lizzy. She knew her friend well, and brought up the topic to see if her friend was yet aware of his attentions, and her own feelings. Her friend's negative response didn't convince her that there was no interest, just that her friend wasn't yet ready to own up to and/or discuss the matter. But like a good firend, she hung in there, and asked again later, in case Lizzy wanted or needed a sounding board."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (14:21)", "body": "If Charlotte could notice in one meeting that Darcy was looking at Lizzy a great deal...wouldn't the Col. have noticed something after being together several times? I think that he would have been intuitive...being that he is a single male in the company of young women. Even if the Col. knew that Lizzie's place in society was beneath his own...he could certainly flirt and notice the attentions of the ladies and other gentleman that were around him."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (18:57)", "body": "Didn't Col. Fitzwilliam strike anyone else as being quite oblivious to much happening around him, except for his own interest in Lizzy? And how she highly entertained him with her conversational ease? Perhaps Jane Asuten didn't intend for him to be dwelled on in such detail and (suggested above by someone) he was merely meant as a comparison to Darcy. Shoot me anyone??"}, {"response": 51, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (19:00)", "body": "IMO, the Col. must have something was up with Darcy. After all, Darcy had \"brought\" the Col. with him to Rosings, and after Mr. Collin's visit, the \"gentlemen accompanied him\" back to the parsonage. At which point, Charlotte makes her remark about Darcy \"would have never come so soon to wait upon her\". Wouldn't the Col. have been a bit suspicious about such a quick return visit? Surely it would have been Darcy who would have instigated the visit. After all, only Darcy knows anyone else at the parsonage, a d surely when the Col. meets Elizabeth, Charlotte, and Maria, I would give him the credit to know something was in the air with Darcy in regards to Elizabeth. After all, Mr. Collins is the head of the household at Hunsford, and very few people, esp. Darcy would be willing to put up with more hours of conversation with the man. Finally, why did Darcy go to Rosings and take the Col. with him in the first place?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (19:16)", "body": "Angela, Darcy's coldness at the first return visit to Hunsford might have thrown doubt to any suspicion, if any, which might have arisen from this visit. The next week passed without Mr Darcy visiting again, though Col. Fitz himself called at the parsonage during that week. Perhaps each cousin called without the other knowing of it, since Darcy was so smitten by Lizzy after the piano scene at Rosings, his personal visits only started then, when he realised (from Rosings) that Col Fitz was growing too 'com irtable' with his Lizzy. I don't know what I'm leading to.."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (22:43)", "body": "Finally, why did Darcy go to Rosings and take the Col. with him in the first place? Darcy and Col. Fitizwilliam* (*is Lady C. brothers son) are Lady C. nephews and they visit her once a year and it happens to be the same time Lizzie would be at Hunsford."}, {"response": 54, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (23:09)", "body": "Okay, time for my 2 cents. As someone who also doesn't perform easily for strangers, I fully agree that it's not at all unusual for Darcy to be drawn to more-lively people. Or rather, to some more-lively people. Caroline Bingley certainly seemed to enjoy her social life very much, but I can't say that Darcy was drawn to her. There are a number of extreme Es that I love to be around. Something about their manner helps to move me further down the scale, draws me out of my usual reserve, even to the point where it might be observed that I'm \"lively enough\" in their company. (About a year-and-a-half ago -- on my birthday, no less -- we lost a dear friend to his fight with cancer. He was such a person. I could easily be absolutely animated when he was around. Totally at ease. Very comfortable.) Even so, regardless of my level of familiarity and comfort, there are some situations which I can't say that I particularly enjoy. (Rosings?) A Vegas Night which my husband and I attended comes to mind. I appreciated the enjoyment of others, but eventually I had to get outside to listen to the crickets chirping. Eventually, the husband (who had been entirely enjoying himself) came round to see where I had gotten off to, realizing that it wouldn't take me terribly long to seek out a quieter corn r. (something like Extrovert-Overload?) I guess I'm arguing (yes, in a round-about way) that it wouldn't be a given that Col. Fitzwilliam would necessarily have thought beyond Darcy's actions to conclude he had affections for Lizzy. Just because he had noticed an alteration in Darcy's behavior, Col. Fitzwilliam may have been having too good a time himself to read anything into Darcy's reactions. Not that he's a doofus. Not that he's insensitive. Not that he's \"typically male\". oh, I got rather long-winded, didn't I sorry"}, {"response": 55, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (23:10)", "body": "that may have been more than 2 cents there'll be no charge"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (00:41)", "body": "Thank you Cindy, I like you more and more.."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (07:02)", "body": "Cindy, I know exactly what you mean about E overload. I've escaped more than one crowded room myself for such a cricket breather."}, {"response": 58, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "Vegas night? I'm there -- bring on the neon!! Getting back to poor Col F.: I guess our opinion on whether he knew something was up with Darcy and Lizzy depends upon the amount of credit we're willing to give him as a perceptive (or not) person. JA is pretty mum on this topic in the book, it seems. But as someone mentioned above, Charlotte, ostensibly the last person in the world to be keyed into Romance, picks up almost _immediately_ on Darcy's feelings for Lizzy. IS it possible that Col F. knows mo e than he reveals?"}, {"response": 59, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (11:15)", "body": "Cindy, I agree with you completely, including the Vegas night for I too do not perform easily to strangers. The first time I heard Darcy say that, my heart opened to him because I knew exactly what he was thinking and what he would try to do. Thank you for stating your opinion much more clearly than I did."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (11:21)", "body": "Charlotte, ostensibly the last person in the world to be keyed into Romance, Oh, the poor dear -- put this plainly, it does make one almost weep for her!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (11:40)", "body": "I forgot to add - I don't think the Col. is in love with Lizzy. She was an unexpected pleasure, I'm sure. We know that Darcy makes the visit to Rosings annually, but not with great pleasure. And we can assume that Fitzwilliam feels the same. He also makes it very clear that he must marry a woman with some wealth. He enjoys Lizzy's company, and who would not in comparison to what is available. But because they are companionable that we see Darcy struggling to join in their conversations and captured izzy's attention."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "My own little question and answer session: Q: Anglela Finally, why did Darcy go to Rosings and take the Col. with him in the first place? A: Serena Perhaps Jane Asuten didn't intend for him to be dwelled on in such detail and (suggested above by someone) he was merely meant as a comparison to Darcy. No bullets from me, Serena, just a gently nodding head."}, {"response": 63, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:31)", "body": "Just to repeat... Charlotte is Lizzy's best friend, even more so than Jane, at least in the book. She would be the one to understand her best, and to look out for her interests. Col FittzW is Darcy's cousin, not his best buddy. None of Darcy's other relatives understand him, not Lady C, not Anne. Darcy is giving out ambiguous signals, doesn't understand himself. Why should the colonel be any more perceptive? Even Lizzy, who goes out of her way to tell Darcy where she walks so that he might avoid her, is totally baffled when he keeps 'accidentally' meeting her and then not talking to her. I also believe that if Col Fitz had any suspicion at all that Darcy thought of Lizzy as anything more than a pleasant diversion,like himself, he would have cleared out and given him some room to manoevre. And he would have let Darcy know it. As to why Darcy and Fitz were together at Rosings- well don't any of you go to the big house for a family gathering at Easter? And would you face the dragon alone if you could help it?They probably both \"had\" to be there- why not together?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (14:01)", "body": "face the dragon alone haha! Yes, I remember being dragged to many family functions. My Grandmother (we called her Grandmother) used to love to trip us kids with her cane! I loved her a great deal, but never understood her delight in seeing us fall!"}, {"response": 65, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (16:44)", "body": "Is doesn't mean that if a person is pragmatic in matters of the heart that she will be oblivious to love/attractions happening around her. I am suggesting that Charlotte's praticality is the result of being 'an old-maid' at 27 years and probably in 'defence' of her disappointment in the lack of finding true love. She has therefore taken the role of an observer in such matters thinking herself out of the limelight. What would be the ideal marrital age in a JA's novel?? about 20 or 21.. Charlotte's had a l t of time to think about it and grow insensitive for herself. Thoughts??"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (16:47)", "body": "Oops, the point I forgot to make above, would be that - if Charlotte had noticed Darcy's attraction, it doesn't mean that Col. Fitz would have seen it coming to. Also Charlotte being Lizzy's friend might count in her awareness."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (21:14)", "body": "Am I the only one who has done a double take every time I read ColF above? I have to stop myself and think that it is Colonel Fitzwilliam not Colin Firth ."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (21:45)", "body": "Ann, I never saw that - AMAZING. I'll spell his name in full."}, {"response": 69, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (10:57)", "body": "You have to given Charlotte credit for honing in earlier than anyone else that Darcy is \"staring at Lizzy a great deal\"; that he might be in love with her. etc. As far as Colonel F.: I'm not really that close to my cousins, but in a social situation, I can tell if they're acting strangely or not. I still can't believe that the Colonel would be completely oblivious to the fact that Darcy is acting \"not himself\" whenever he's around Lizzy. I'll grant you he might not put two and two together & figure ou Darcy's heart, but he must know that _something_ is up. I just can't go on thinking the man is such a blunderpuss!!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:52)", "body": "Poor Colonel Fitzwilliam, if this could proven against him, might be in danger of becoming either doofus or blunderpuss. I really like the man, he was conversable and respectable. though not good looking (JA says so, I think). But Amy2 what gave you the impression from the book that Darcy was not behaving like himself and that the Colonel noticed it? We saw him in public places before but this was the first amongst relations of his own. Should Anne de Bourgh have a share of this discussion? Could she have noticed Mr Darcy and the Colonel behaving differently that night at Rosings too?? Did the Colonel pay her less attention this time because of Lizzy's presence?"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:42)", "body": "In P&P2 ColF says that Darcy hardly speaks a word when he is in Kent though he is lively enough in other places--he does not say that Darcy is any more quiet on this visit to Kent than in the past. This seems to imply that Darcy's being so quiet is also a function of being around his Aunt, not just Lizzy."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (00:11)", "body": "Let me try understand this (I'm losing myself) Was Darcy considered to be lively or not that one fateful night at Rosings with Lizzy present? I thought he was, more so than we ever saw of him from the start of the novel. But since Colonel Fitzwilliam corrected us on that point when he commented that Darcy was usually lively... Does this mean Darcy was usually lively even at Rosings and so Col Fitzwilliam could not suspect his interest in Lizzy that 'piano' night? or He was just always lively when he was out with his own acquaintances/ relations (except Rosings), but we know that's not the case when he was with the Bingleys. Help!! I'm going back to 'Emma' where everything makes sense."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "Ann - Interesting point there is no reason to be lively at Rosings, what oppresive people live there. As others have pointed out, women threw themselves at him all the time. Wtih his position, power, looks etc, he didn't have to be \"lively\" anywhere. whats my point...? Maybe they are both (Col F and Darcy) are bored out of their cotton pickin' minds and Col F with nothing better to do, recognizes a small change in Darcy's behaviour. He strikes me as keepng his feelings close. They were probably somewhat close, as they are both Georgiana's guardians. (or something like that) They would have to be in contact somewhat regularly. Dont you think."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "I think he and the Colonel were good friends. And as for being lively, it seems the kind of fun we have evidence of his having consisted of sarcastic barbs at lower beings. He liked feeding the Bingley sisters giggles for want of nothing better to do. Like Mr Bennet and Lizzy in a way, laughing at idiots. But he was ready for a change. Maybe he was bored with wry biting commentary. Wryness is fun but it makes you spiteful. He was ready for Lizzy's uncitified wit -- he needed a breath of fresh country air."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (13:24)", "body": "Part of the confusion over Darcy's liveliness is due to the differences between the novel and the adaptation and Darcy's Story . In the adaptation (P&P2) Fitzwilliam says his cousin is lively other places than Rosings, suggesting that Darcy is not any more engaged than usual. In Darcy's Story , to add further to the confusion, Fitzwilliam comments that Lizzy seems to bring Darcy out more into the conversation, suggesting that Darcy is more engaged than usual. In the novel itself, I don't know if one could say that Darcy is any more lively than he was when he and Lizzy sparred at Netherfield during Jane's illness, suggesting that he is about the same as usual--though perhaps a bit distracted. I believe Austen also writes that, when Fitz and Darcy call at Hunsford, Darcy is unusually quiet and his cousin abuses him for it. So, Austen has him less lively, Darcy's Story has him more lively, and P&P2 has him about the same."}, {"response": 76, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (16:27)", "body": "With all that in mind, Ann - I wonder at Darcy not developing somewhat of a split- personality syndrome. Now I see where the confusion arose from. But Amy, wasn't Lizzy just as bitey in her jabs at Darcy?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "] But Amy, wasn't Lizzy just as bitey in her jabs at Darcy? __ Well, yeah, but her particular acid was not blended with \"I am better than you.\" I guess that is the difference?"}, {"response": 78, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (10:55)", "body": "As far as Darcy's altered behavior at Rosings, which Col Fitzwilliam had the chance to observe: When Darcy visits Lizzie at Hunsford, he barely says a word. During the piano scene, he goes out of his way to \"view the fair performer's full countenance,\" banters with her in a most lively manner, COMPLIMENTS her on her playing and temperment (\"we neither of us perform to strangers\"), and can almost be accused of flirting. Remember too that HE KEEPS POSTPONIING THE DATE OF THEIR DEPARTURE, a very unusual occ rence, considering they're staying with Lady Catherine. So Darcy's lack of our excess of liveliness every time he's around Lizzy would seem to suggest to the observer that he's acting _differently_ than he normally does around young women. That's why I think that Col F. has to pick up on something!"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (07:54)", "body": "Well, perhaps Col. Fitzwilliam would have noticed a very let-dwon person when they were leaving Rosings. It must have been hell for Col. Fitzwilliam to have had to travel with Darcy after that 'massive' rejection."}, {"response": 80, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (20:02)", "body": "Thank you Serena! This is a point made in DARCY'S STORY. I think I mentioned this somewhere above, but isn't it likely that Col F. would have run into Darcy that fateful night too? (not in the book but in P&P2). Would he have noticed Darcy's great disturbance of mind?"}, {"response": 81, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (18:38)", "body": "A very neat topic... Lynn in #61 - great name, by the way, and spelled the 'right' way! I agree with you that Colonel F. is not in love, but is enjoying his stay at Rosings much more than he expected to. Could it not be that he sees Darcy's behavior as the same thing, meaning Darcy is finding more to enjoy as well, as Lizzy is such a good conversationalist, so this could account for any strangeness in Darcy's behavior. Amy in #78, I see your point as well,and others have made it too, that Darcy keeps postponing the departure. But does this necessarily mean Fitzwilliam sees that Darcy is in love, or at least in like? I think maybe he might see it, because I would hate to think him stupid, in OUR sense of the word, but I'm not sure he would if he was just having a good time. I think probably Fitzwilliam stays at Hunsford so long simply because he had fun with Lizzy and wanted to let her know."}, {"response": 82, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (09:20)", "body": "Lynn Thanks for the compliment. But I must tell you, everytime I see your post, I do a double take, since that is my full name also. I think they stay on longer not only for fun with Lizzy, but Darcy's hope that he can pick up some of the Col. good spirits and easy manners. Everytime I watch him during the piano scene, I always think he is saying to himself 'What is Fitzwilliam thinking?, How can I introduce a lively conversation or keep one going?' I don't think he always wants to spar, but I thought he was in love with her already. As he will later demonstrate, he simply cannot verbally express himself very well."}, {"response": 83, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:49)", "body": "I work with a Daryl Lamy! Any relation to anyone?"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Karen", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "Amy2 - Can't Col. Fitz. be a bright man simply not attuned to this particular situation? He may have abused Darcy for being silent but this isn't really out of character for Darcy. Col Fitz has seen Darcy both silent and more animated in front of women I suspect (even if the woman is only Caroline Bingley). Even if he noticed Darcy's greatly disturbed mind, that after Darcy has been rejected by Elizabeth. By that time, what can he say. \"Sorry cousin for flirting with the object of your desire.\" If Co Fitz couldn't marry Elizabeth why should he think that Darcy would consider her. The bottom line is though we may not agree on what Col Fitz should have known, if he didn't know it doesn't mean he's a dunce. He just wasn't even clued in to the situation to even notice it."}, {"response": 85, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "The Clueless Colonel?"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (21:08)", "body": "Men, in general, I think are not as clued into another man's emotional state as one woman is to another's. Charlotte is clued into Darcy's feelings, I don't think Col. Fitz had any idea - it just wouldn't have occurred to him, because men had so much more to think about--work, politics, the war, etc. I don't think that makes him a dunce, or stupid, or even clueless--just a man!!"}, {"response": 87, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (03:11)", "body": "I still like to believe that Col Fitz. was so much caught up with his attraction to Lizzy and how he as the younger son, couldn't end up with her that he did not notice Mr Darcy's behaviour. He was not clueless only that he saw nothing to strike him on Darcy's part. When Charlotte mentioned how Darcy was behaving unusual, the Col.reply implied that Darcy was not behaving any differently. He was accustomed to seeing Darcy sometimes animated and at other times quiet. So, what am I saying?? Darcy's behaviour was only out of character to us (the readers/viewers) because we have only seen him in unfamiliar surroundings. Perhaps he really does not performs to strangers."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Genette", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "On behalf of the poor Colonel: He probably needed time for reflection before he realized what was up with Darcy. I think he and Darcy went to Rosings for a boring visit with their overbearing Aunt and her mostly silent daughter just to be nice to members of their family. (I think Darcy would not visit Rosings alone unless he had intentions toward his cousin. He would have to know of his aunt's thoughts on that score.) So, anyway, the poor Colonel gets dragged along to try and keep everything civil. Lo and behold, the clergyman's wife has a pretty, witty, single friend visiting at the time of D&F's visit. D calls the shots. He's got wealth and clout after all. D directs them to call on the parsonage. Colonel goes along and finds he really likes the pretty girl. He probably is a bit \"smitten,\" but no more than that. He pulls what enjoyment he can from the whole visit. (For all his trouble, Darcy sneaks out one night and leaves him all alone to carry the evening with LadyC, Anne, and the Collinse .) In all likelihood, Darcy was rotten company on the carriage ride away from Rosings. D may or may not have given Colonel any hints as to why, but he surely gave the Colonel plenty of silent time to think and reflect. Colonel probably smacks himself in the head halfway down the road and says \"Darcy, I aplogize. I was so intent on my own enjoyment of Miss Bennet's company I did not realize your own attachment to her! What must you think of me?\" MHO"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (18:14)", "body": "You know what, Genette? Everybody always talks about how reserved these people must have been -- their times, their class dictated it, &tc. But I can't help but believe you may be right in this case. I mean these guys were friends and relation. Wouldn't they have talked a little? Now I agree that Darcy probably would not have confided to his sister as Miss Aylmer has him do -- but maybe!"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:29)", "body": "Since I'm all confused from the actual novel and adaptation, I will only venture to say I think (maybe) Miss Darcy was a little aware of her brother's attraction to Elizabeth. Perhaps not the proposal and refusal, but that he certainly thought highly of her and admired her exceedingly and would wish for his sister to meet her at some point."}, {"response": 91, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:39)", "body": "Genette, what you said all pretty much sits right with me. Thinking about this, though: \"Colonel probably smacks himself in the head halfway down the road and says \"Darcy, I aplogize...\" - Can you imagine what Darcy's reaction would have been? Ouch"}, {"response": 92, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:41)", "body": "] Now I agree that Darcy probably would not have confided to his sister as Miss Aylmer has him do -- but maybe! __ I really meant to say \"Not that I agree...\" I really don't know. Probably Darcy and Georgiana would not dish, but Darcy and the Col.? Like Genette said -- together on a long carriage ride? Would they rehash?"}, {"response": 93, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:47)", "body": "Might have been too embarrassing for Darcy to have to admit he was lo and behold, REFUSED!! Especially him being the silent, strong, confident Darcy he must have been looked upon by relations and friends."}, {"response": 94, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "I don't know, ladies...I can only go by my own experiences with men. So often my husband gets together with his friends, when he comes home I ask him very important questions about them, their wives, or children. His answer is always the same \"I don't know, I didn't ask\". In which I always say the same thing \"What do you men talk about?!\" His reply: \"huh?\" Him and his friends are also so completely clueless when a woman comes on to them. By these personal experiences, I am of the thought that the Col. knew nothing and Darcy said nothing."}, {"response": 95, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (22:12)", "body": "Candace, that is SO true, and exactly the way my husband is, also."}, {"response": 96, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (02:06)", "body": "It must be a totally male thing to not ask pertaining questions and when they do know of something embarrassing or something not to mentioned in front of so and so, they let it out at the worse possible time, without a clue to having said anything wrong. So Candace, yes, I agree with the generalization. Not quite on this topic, but I just have to get it out of my system : poor Darcy, I feel for the underdog, must have been so low in spirits (first proposal/first rejection and so violently too), wonder if he's ever been interested in anyone else before Lizzy. Couldn't have been to much of a sweet-talker going by his disasterous choice of words in professing his love. But one can only sympathise with him, even Lizzy must have 'felt' bad, afterall, he was professing his love for and to her, though the method might have been arrogant. Wonder where he would have gone to after Rosings? But the Colonel could have just been the typical sterotyped-description of a man. I wonder if there are any male lurkers reading all this?"}, {"response": 97, "author": "Genette", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "Okay, okay. I guess I didn't really redeem the poor Colonel far by supposing he might stumble all over Darcy's hurt feelings during that carriage ride away from Rosings (I'm not sure where they were headed, even after looking at my much tattered copy of P&P). I, like Amy, still maintain that these guys talked some. How else would the Colonel have known about Darcy's interference with Bingley? I love the idea of being a fly on the wall during that carriage ride. (I've read and enjoyed one fanfic that touched on it). However, I don't think that Darcy would be eager to share such an embarrassing and painful experience. I'm sure he would need time to process it for himself, first of all. But one thing I've always enjoyed about Darcy is that he's full of surprises. The way he confesses his admiration of Elizabeth to Caroline at the assembly...etc. (Off to drool, mind wandering in contemplation of Darcy.) Who knows who he might confide in or what he might say?"}, {"response": 98, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (22:46)", "body": "I think they might have talked some, too. More than Darcy and Georgina."}, {"response": 99, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (03:29)", "body": "Yes, he would have needed to spill out a little bit of his anguish and I guess the Colonel would have been the one. Yes, Hiliary more than he would have said to his sister. Don't think he could possibly have said anything to Bingley, especially after his own interference there. Poor Darcy, he must have been so tortured!! And no mates to hang out with, no pubs mentioned!! What a cruel situation Jane Austen put him in."}, {"response": 100, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (05:20)", "body": "I'm all astonishment, Genette on reading your comments and others on this Darcy Fitzwilliam relation. As a matter of fact I've been in that carriage for five days now being confined and giving a confined opinion on what that fly might possibly have witnessed; might even appear in fanfic.(Is advertising allowed Amy? I just could not refrain after reading this for the first time, to looking for his first name.)"}, {"response": 101, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (05:43)", "body": "Oh please do let your fly into FanFic, Ann2. It could be the beginning of a series: Carriage Ruminations."}, {"response": 102, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (06:13)", "body": "AG!! I have actually been pondering something of the sort Amy, although in some following carriages, they would maybe be more agreeably engaged ;-). This first one (working name: Via dolorosa is however filled with torment, just like you, Cheryl and myself like it)"}, {"response": 103, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "Ooh Ann2! Via Dolorosa, the Way of Suffering! Yes, we like to see them suffer don't we? ;-)"}, {"response": 104, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (15:54)", "body": "Ann2, How about Edward Fitzwilliam for the Col. He's Edward in Young Fitz! Might as well keep the same name!!! I like the idea of your Via Dolorosa! Go to it!;-)"}, {"response": 105, "author": "Genette", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (21:37)", "body": "Ann2, I'm breathless with anticipation. Go to it!"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Genette", "date": "Sun, Apr  6, 1997 (13:26)", "body": "Ann2, Got to read the Leaving of Rosings Park and LOVED it! Just what I would imagine their rapport to be. And, of course, Darcy's \"yearning eyes\" and the \"knife stabbed in his breast\" were just lovely. Capital, capital! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 182, "subject": "Computer help (was Think You're Computer Illiterate?)", "response_count": 48, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (05:05)", "body": "In a couple of weeks when I finish a current project I hope to move my computer skills up a notch. Can any of you who have recently to paddle in the mysteries recommend a good book or 2 on beginning html? I aim to be able to manage my own home page, images etc and be a good and useful citizen of spring, but don't aspire to the rank of wizard..."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (08:46)", "body": "Laura Lemay's books are always good."}, {"response": 3, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (11:33)", "body": "I've had some success with Dummies 101: HTML by Ray and Ray, it's one of those IDG Dummies series."}, {"response": 4, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (08:35)", "body": "I remember \"Laura Lemay\" from back in the early '90's when she used to hang out on the Usenet newsgroup alt.angst and flame and be flamed along with the rest of the geeks there..."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (17:14)", "body": "I remember Laura Lemay from her book \"Teach Yourself Java in 21 Days\". The very first example program in the book wouldn't work for me. I spent ages trying to get that thing to work, only to finally discover through Usenet that the book was wrong, and if I followed her instructions it would never work! Needless to say, I put down the book and have never bought another one of hers!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (19:38)", "body": "Our colours are restored!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "Our colours are restored! Hilary, Hooray! How did you did it? (Was there a magic incantation or some such thing?)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (13:22)", "body": "Why, yes, Kathleen, there is. Close your eyes, and repreat thrice; \"I shall overcome this, I shall overcome this, I shall overcome this...\""}, {"response": 9, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (16:44)", "body": "That's very good Hilary you'll need them to watch Joan's lovely flower photos, no buttercups yet though ;-)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (19:20)", "body": "Hilary, Mari -- whatever incantation was used must have been very powerful. The spilled dill (?) background here at Austen Conference has just become the background for Win 95 when I turn on my computer! I don't mind it, but I sure don't know how it happened."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (21:09)", "body": "Let's say one found a picture on the web, but it was a wee little picture, and one wanted to make it bigger and then post it at the Drool Conference. Can one do such a thing, and if so, how would one go about it? All replies most fervently appreciated. :)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (22:08)", "body": "Susan, no telling how it will hold up bigger, but here's what you do. Find out what size it is now, in pixels. You'll need some graphics viewer or paint program that tells you this. Say it is 50 x 60. You specify new dimensions in the same proportion within your img scr tag. Like this: [img src=\" http://www.place.com/dir/pic.gif \" width=\"200 height=\"240\"] That tag would make your picture 4 times larger. Sub pointy brackets for square."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (22:12)", "body": "Susan, one more thing. Do you know how to view source? Sometimes the size it specified there. Pictures load faster when a size is specified, even if the actual size is noted."}, {"response": 14, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (16:58)", "body": "Myretta, I heard it through the grape VI ne that you're ad VI sing a no VI ce, a Unix VI rgin as it were, in the use of a VI le tool of the de VI l, that de VI ant and ata VI stic text editor. From my point of VI ew, your obli VI ous VI ctim's fate is unen VI able, since I VI gorously VI e to VI lify and re VI le (with VI sceral VI gilance and VI triol) that VI llainous de VI ce of primiti VI sm, that VI cious efflu VI um of e VI l, that un VI able but VI rulent VI rus of unser VI ceable unproducti VI ty, which is e VI dently little less than VI olently Bolshe VI k. It is my VI rtuous wish that some VI sionary indi VI dual will be VI ctorious in e VI cting this in VI dious VI ce into the ine VI table obli VI on which it so ob VI ously and richly in VI tes! VI ctory!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (18:03)", "body": "Henry, I did it just to annoy you. And the VI vid VI triol of your in VI dious attack tells me that I hit the mark, but the editor remains in VI olable. You have not VI tiated my campaign with your VI tuperation. VI va VI The VI sual Editor VI rago"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "VI ciously funny!!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (21:35)", "body": "Sic 'em sister! ;-)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Poor Henry... One of these days we are going to go over the line -- again. Oh dear, but I couldn't help but giggle when you said you did it just to bug him, Myretta."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (02:05)", "body": "I fixed my problem with not having Colin Firth, Jeremy Northam, and FanFiction threads on Drool (or I should say, my husband did). Normally, I'd be too embarrassed to mention the cure, but I thought I might be able to save someone else the same trouble. In the Main Menu, there's an option called View/Modify Preferences, where you can choose a lot of different things about how you want your threads displayed. I don't remember doing this when I first signed on, so I'm assuming I picked default. Anyway, changed Skip Forgotten to Don't Skip Forgotten, and voila! Everything's right with the world again!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (12:44)", "body": "Good for you Susan, I don't see how anyone could endure long without access to Firth and Northam drool, and the fiction usually helps...slurp, sorry. That VI thing was great;just wish I had a clue... but I seem to be doomed to blindness."}, {"response": 21, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (13:01)", "body": "Ann2: but I seem to be doomed to blindness Oh, Ann, where is Mr Knightley when you need him! ;-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:06)", "body": "Ann2 -- It's the great perpetual \"Unix text editor religious war\" of Emacs vs. VI; the conflict has raged since about the early 1980's (? not certain), and it hasn't been settled yet... However it is true that VI is still in some ways a kind of hopped-up line editor (this is a kind of software dating back to 1960's mainframes and paper TTY terminals) -- and not a true from-the-ground-up screen editor; also, VI has some features that are rather new-user-unfriendly, such as the invisible distinction between \"insert mode\" and \"command mode\"."}, {"response": 23, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "However it is true that VI is still in some ways a kind of hopped-up line editor (this is a kind of software dating back to 1960's mainframes and paper TTY terminals) -- and not a true from-the-ground-up screen editor; also, VI has some features that are rather new-user-unfriendly, such as the invisible distinction between \"insert mode\" and \"command mode\". I don't deny it. It just that I've been using it since the early 80s and, since I have no problem with it, have never bothered to learn another."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (11:09)", "body": "Okay, Super-geeks, can you fix my problem? I am so behind on the Firth Drool (about 200 posts, don't ask how that happened).With all the pretty pictures there are my computer/modem suffers from indigestion, and gets locked after about 100 posts, so I never get to the end. Amy, if you would be so kind as to bring back dbut(cute name, dbutt)I could skip forward, back up and redisplay. If that's not possible, is there any other way I could do it?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (13:31)", "body": "Cara Caro, shame on you for that level of neglect. Actually the topic has now been archived. I think the dbut button was set to make a page with a day's worth of old posts, but you can specify the same kind of address yourself. Say, for example you wanted to see the last seven days with of the archived thread, you'd use this URL: http://208.199.212.10/yapp-bin/restricted/read/austenarchive/117/all/since/-7 Just change the last three items to make it work in any /conference-in any/topic-for any/-number of days Anybody else mourning the loss of dbut? I can bring it back or set the drool link to a certain number of days."}, {"response": 26, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (02:51)", "body": "Another shortcut is to use \"noresp\" (no responses) - for example if you just wanted to get to the response window in this topic without seeing any postings, you could change the \"new\" to \"noresp\": http://208.199.212.10/yapp-bin/restricted/read/austen/215/noresp Then you'd be jumped directly to the enter-your-response window (bypassing all responses), and also to the Redisplay field, where you could enter a response number of your choice to redisplay from."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:42)", "body": "Well, I'm done with Oldiznu...again. I shall light a candle to help ward off the next manifestation."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "Thanks Joan and Amy. And thanks for the archives! Amy, I promise not to go to work so often that I get behind on my drooling again! I'll try the -1 thing, that did great for me. I have even got dbut in my computer, how I know not. He cannot do his magic there , of course. I'd be glad to see him back on a -1 basis. Would you have to remove THAT WELSHMAN first? And I'll save up for a new modem, too.Promise!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (14:05)", "body": "BTW, anybody who is upgrading to a 28.8 and has a (probably preferably) external 14.4 to toss out, let me know."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "Amy, just upgraded to 33.6, but my old 14.4 is internal, still want it?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (19:17)", "body": "Cheryl, first your choir sings the Kyrie, now this... I shall light a candle to help ward off the next manifestation. .. Are you sure that you're not a closet Catholic? :)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "Cindy: Are you sure that you're not a closet Catholic? LOL Cindy! I know you're going to scoff at this, but I am a \"High Church Methodist.\" Yes, there is such an animal! ;-)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:46)", "body": "Cheryl, do you do Taize by any chance?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (11:43)", "body": "I do windows, if it helps :)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:50)", "body": "Please pardon my Spring ignorance, but when I went to drool the other day (my first time, no less) something happened when I was in the Ciaran Hinds drool, and I ended up somewhere else, and when I went back, Ciaran was GONE! What have I DONE????!!!!! HELP!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:59)", "body": "He probably blipped over into the realm of the forgotten, Lynn. If your remember button doesn't work like mine doesn't, I've put in a little undocumented link for all new forgotten messages. Look for the tiny \"n/f\" on the cover page of the conference."}, {"response": 37, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "He probably blipped over into the realm of the forgotten, Actually, he probably just blipped over into the realm of already read - because of that stupid no cache thing. As soon as another post is made there it will probably re-appear, and when it does, you can use the redisplay field to ask it to redisplay from a response number earlier than the currently displayed responses. Alternately, you can choose \"All\" instead of \"new\" at the beginning of the conference in order to find out which item number is Ciaran Hinds drool (unless you happen to have memorized it ). Then you can choose it and redisplay all of it."}, {"response": 38, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (21:12)", "body": "Amy and Joan, thank you! HE\"S BACK! :-) ! The n/f didn't work, but clicking all did, so there he was!! Thanks so much for the help. I am sure there are much more efficient ways for me to look at all these topics, but I haven't wanted to take the time to find out what they are yet!! Thanks again!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "I've lost my Dillweed.Am I alone, or is this deliberate policy?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (22:02)", "body": "It's seems to have faded away..."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "Now that you pointed it out, I've lost it too! Thought it was just me. Back to the store, buy more dill!!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (23:52)", "body": "I'll sprinkle a little more on the counter."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (00:27)", "body": "I have a little dill, but is fainter than it was--almost invisible."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (15:10)", "body": "Seems to have been replaced by microscope slides of unicellular animals- interesting, but is it Regency, do you think?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Tue, Apr  1, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "I'm back with another problem. I tried to go into chat today, but when I clicked on Enter Chat Room, is said \"Hey, you didn't enter a username\" but it never gave me the oppotunity to enter one. Have I done something wrong? Am I the only one here since the days the spring was down?! Hello out there!!?? Help!!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Apr  1, 1997 (21:03)", "body": "There are only a few left. I miss all the activity."}, {"response": 47, "author": "fen", "date": "Wed, Apr  2, 1997 (17:02)", "body": "Lynn, try this- http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wwwboard/ppbb.html"}, {"response": 48, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Apr  2, 1997 (22:35)", "body": "Spring was down, and...? Reminds me of a sci fi story where the world was bombed and only two humans were left alive in NYC. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 183, "subject": "A Jane Austen Soap Opera", "response_count": 49, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "Some plots would be missing : the alien abduction, the spy and some kind of spy agencies, the illegetimate child (although this one is possible), and so many other :)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (14:52)", "body": "I finally stopped watching the soap that I was faithful to for 15 years, because they buried a leading character alive, funeral, coffin the whole bit. After she was buried we hear her voice say \"Why is it so dark? Where am I?\" I was so disgusted, I turned it off in a huff and have never looked back!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:39)", "body": "Cheryl was that Days of our Lives, by any chance."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Mar  5, 1997 (15:47)", "body": "Dr. Marlena Evans. I think that is when I stopped watching. Either that or Stefano returning for the 43 time."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (01:20)", "body": "Why yes, it was DOOL, and it was Carly who was buried alive. That show is infamous for bring people back from the dead...why, one would think that Salem was the site of the Second Coming!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (02:24)", "body": "Anne, that would commercialised Jane Austen's works to an even greater extent.. I hope no one from the network sees this!!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (04:36)", "body": "Reminds me of an article I read last year (in Toronto Arts Newspaper?). I can't find it currently on the internet, but I kept a copy (from Feb 15, 1996). ASUTEN-MANIA MELTDOWN: Secret Memo betrays all-Austen cable conspiracy by Tom Lyons. The article purports to be setting up an all-Austen format for a cable tv channel. It includes a possible future schedule. A few examples: 8 p.m. Movie:****Sense and Sensibility 5: The Dashwoods in Moscow (Drama). Julia Ormond, Lisa Kudrow. The Dashwoods lose their tiny Moscow apartment to Communist Party officials. Mrs. Dashwood is tortured to death. Marianne must choose between dull Red Army man and dashing spy. The Simpsons: Bart is sent home from school after insisting that Jane Austen has a bionic eye. 1:30 a.m. Movie: **Pride and Prejudice XXI: Black Wedding (Horror). Margot Kidder, John Saxon. Upset that Elizabeth Bennet has spurned his marriage proposals, Mr. Collins hides in the cellar of Longbourn, killing off her sisters with a rusty axe. CNN Sports Latenight: Highlights of Dallas vs. Pittsburgh lawn bowling championship. MM Rap City: Ice Cube discusses slavery in Mansfield Park. 4 a.m. CNN Drossfire: William F. Buckley ridicules Ice Cube's views on slavery in Mansfield Park."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (08:47)", "body": "Johanne - re #1: I don't know.....seems to me that Mr. Collins IS an alien life form. And Anne de Bourgh's perpetual illnesses could be a byproduct of all that alien experimentation. Boy, I hope no one's cloned Lady Catherine, a la the X-files! (Or certain sheep) ;) RE #7 - LOL!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (08:53)", "body": "Kathleen -- it's online at http://www.eye.net/Arts/Movies/Features/FF/1996/ff0215.htm"}, {"response": 10, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (11:21)", "body": "Maybe Fanny Price wakes up in the shower: \"It was all a dream!\""}, {"response": 11, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "No that would be Emma who wakes up in the shower. You see, Harriet really married Mr Elton, Jane Fairfax married Mr Knightley, George Knightley and Frank Churchill became a drug addicted, poor highwayman. Mr Woodhouse died from poisonous gruel and Poor Miss Taylor was arrested for giving it to him. You see he would not listen to anyone when they kept telling him that she was now Mrs Weston. The voices told her to do it. You see, when Emma comes out of the shower she is magically transported to Pember ey where she has now become Mr Darcy and she can switch her personality but she really likes Lizzy but she presumes that because Lizzy has no money and her mother is not tolerable like Mr Woodhouse. Lydia has not run of with Wickham, but is pregnant by Mr Bingley who is also having an incestuous affair with Mrs Hurst and Heather Locklear some how fits into the whole story. whew"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (13:33)", "body": "Geez! ;-p"}, {"response": 13, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (14:05)", "body": "H.C. {#() -- thank you for posting the link. I lost last year's links when I switched from MS-Explorer to Netscape, and I couldn't figure out where to look. Laura (#11) -- LOL!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (15:48)", "body": "Laura this is why I hate soaps and haven't watched one in 17 years. I think Jane Austen would have like some of the early/now TV sitcoms."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (16:11)", "body": "Laura - and how many soaps have you watched recently???? LOL. But you left out a psychologist or two - maybe Caroline Bingley is the psychologist! Anne Eliot is the long suffering nurse at a hospital where Mr. Collins is the gossip/doctor and Lydia is the candystriper! Of course, then everybody has been or is married to someone, which will change in a year to everyone moving one step to the left and marrying or sleeping with the next partner!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (16:13)", "body": "Really, Donna? Would she have liked \"Three's Company?\" I don't think so."}, {"response": 17, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "Actually a sort of biography filmed, with some additions made, based on JA letters might work rather well. Some fiction thrown in. Affair with Tom Lefroy. Rumor in the Lefroy family, down the years indicates perhaps bad treatment of JA by Mr Lefroy. Difficulities with her mother's ailment. Tragedies involving some of her family friends. Move to Bath. Criticisms of her family members, her brother, after the death of his wife. That sort of thing. JA visit to the Prince Regent's palace. Might throw in a fictional meeting. That kinda thing. Could work. Maybe BBC is already planning something. Contrast of JA real lifestyle, vs that of those we see in the film versions. Trouble with money, printers, publishers, etc. Just might work."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (16:25)", "body": "I was thinking more like \"Father Knows Best\",\"Patty Duke Show\", \"Cheers\", \"Frazier\", and \"3rd Rock From the Sun\".\"Three's Company\" never entered my mind. How about some of the dramas that are on now/then. Did anyone happen to see \"The Practice\" the other night? Loved it! New obession."}, {"response": 19, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (18:50)", "body": "Oh come on guys she would have love MELROSE PLACE , like totally cool. man. Actually I haven't watched a soap opera in about 7 years. But they are all the same. Always hopping in one bed and out of the other."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (20:39)", "body": "Donna.....I saw the last half and thought it was very good indeed! I will tune in again next week...it's kind of ER in the courtroom. I like the main lawyer too...not too bad to look at. I hope they keep the scripts coming with the same intelligence that the premiere had!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (20:51)", "body": "You are right, Donna, I twisted what you said. Sorry."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (02:14)", "body": "This is getting disgusting, people. I don't think even Aaron Spelling likes MP anymore, to be perfectly honest."}, {"response": 23, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "I saw MELROSE for the first time about a month ago, and thought it was a scream! They may not be playing it as camp, but that's what it is. To add to the JA Bio Soap: that bit with one of her relations being imprisoned for shoplifting! Starring: Robert Shapiro as the Austen Defense Attorney!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (12:26)", "body": "Ewwwwwww!!!!! This is making me as nauseous as the disco talk over at Drool!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "Cheryl, now don't dis disco:)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (14:47)", "body": "Too late Laura! ;-)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (15:50)", "body": "I have to agree with my AUntie! Disco and Darcy?! Insupportable!!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Okay guys just for you seeing that it is the weekend and I will not be chatting with you guys until Monday: Here we go: ITS FUN TO BE AT THE YMCA, WHY DON'T YA COME TO THE YMCA. IN THE NAVY ACROSS THE SEVEN SEAS IN THE NAVY Auntie have a wonderful weekend:-0_____ I'm drooling"}, {"response": 29, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (16:17)", "body": "I am sick! It was terrible when they came out the first time! And, yes, I was there. Been there. Done that. Thought we cured it"}, {"response": 30, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "] Response 10 of 21: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Thu, Mar 6, 1997 (11:21) ] Maybe Fanny Price wakes up in the shower: \"It was all a dream!\" Intriguing idea -- but when does she wake up, and how much of it was a dream? Surely not her whole life since she was 10 years old?!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Linda", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "I actually read a very good book a while ago, where the main character is the creator and head writer of a \"Regency\" soap opera. It was a great read, and it made me wish that such a show existed for real. The book is \"Again\" by Kathleen Gilles Seidel."}, {"response": 32, "author": "brad", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (07:20)", "body": "How about any or all of the Austen ladies appearing on Baywatch. I know it isn't a soap but(t) hey, I'd watch it!. Of course Ann Elliot would have to be left out-- she's far to old to appear on a Baywatch beach. David Hasselhoff as Darcy? Could this be a new drool topic?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "brad", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (07:35)", "body": "Or better yet, replace Hasselhoff with CF. This way his fans could see him wet all the time. Also, replace Pamela Anderson with JE. I'd love to see her in an Empire bodice swimsuit. She must be a good swimmer- she's already been given credit for being a good walker."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (12:53)", "body": "Brad - LOL. I like your idea! I've never once seen Baywatch, but your recasting might just make me start watching it - especially CF wet all the time and JE in an Empire bodice swimsuit. Great idea!!;-)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (13:08)", "body": "What say I to Baywatch & CF always wet -- \"I want to go to Brighton! A little sea-bathing would set me up forever!\""}, {"response": 36, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "Brad, LOL and appreciating your unique male perspective! :)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (20:22)", "body": "Brad...you are my kinda guy! With ideas like that....we should take up a collection and send you to Hollywood! Colin on the beach....(where's Joans m-m-m-m-m when we need it?)"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (21:41)", "body": "Now hold it a minute...No one, except perhaps Candace, enjoys seeing Darcy WET as much as I, but...Baywatch? I'm getting the heebie-jeebies just thinking about it!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (00:30)", "body": "yep, Cheryl, I'm starting to think that I might not be upset if I accidentally \"Forgot\" this topic. Baywatch? Darcy?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (01:03)", "body": "I beg of you Mrs. Bennet \"no soaps or Baywatch\"."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "Come on guys, won't there be any sports today? Cheryl what harm can a little baywatching do? It is not Darcy! It is our Colin's gonna do it..rescue them damsels and have his hair all curly and wet...be reasonable! And stride through the sand and the waves ..very beneficial for the thighs too! Please!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "]David Hasselhoff as Darcy? Could this be a new drool topic? Let me quote Lizzy : Never! Let me see Darcy as anotyher captain for a new Enterprise and then rescue damzels in distress... Holodeck anyone?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (23:42)", "body": "very beneficial for the thighs too! Please! Oh well, then count me in!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (11:13)", "body": "Holodeck anyone? I wish, I wish, Johanne!(I thought Cecily had something on this line.Where are you, madam?)"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (11:45)", "body": "I could see the Collins household as a sit-com, with new, daffy suggestions by Lady Catherine to 'improve' their house very week, Charlotte trying to avoid them, and Mr. Collins so eager to implement them; think 'The Dick Van Dyke Show' for a format."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Becks", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (21:49)", "body": "Baywatch? It's almost as bad as making Lizzie as Zenia."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (05:06)", "body": "Xena's cool."}, {"response": 48, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (12:08)", "body": "I must add my support to the Warrior Princess camp - and it is high camp, indeed!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (11:09)", "body": "To My Dear Cassandra: It is a truth universally acknowledged that when two handsome people get together they cannot or will not leave their hands off each other. However small the sphere of the town in which they live, you can be sure that they have made violent love to everyone. I am bespeaking of a well known MELROSE PLACE. Lady Catherine De Burgh would definitely speak ill of all the families. Which to some peculiarity are more then four and Twenty. As the little is becoming quite tiresome I must beg leave. But I do not beg you not to take up with Mr Firth until we have had some further acquaintance with his family, It is not known if he comes from good people and to have our name brought about in a shameful manner would be most seriously displeasing. As our Cousing Fanny Knight has done by becomin engaged and then breaking it off. reminiscent of mine with Mr Biggs Wither whom I could never marry. He had not behaved in a most gentlemanly behavio r. And his teeth, sister. Ah well, please do try to check out that little story that I mentione above. Yours &tc Miss Austen austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 184, "subject": "Caro Bingley or Caro Darcy? (Was Husband: Bingley or Darcy?)", "response_count": 20, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (20:06)", "body": "Well, I am slow tonight. When I saw the name of this new topic, I thought, good lord, are we still talking about whether Darcy would have married Caroline if he and Lizzy hadn't gotten together? Took me a few minutes to realize that Mrs. Elton had started this thread, using Amy's name."}, {"response": 2, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (20:23)", "body": "Anne3, I am slower than you, since I had to read your message before I did get it. Too punny!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Mar  7, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "are we still talking about whether Darcy would have married Caroline if he and Lizzy hadn't gotten together? Took me a few minutes to realize that Mrs. Elton had started this thread, using Amy's name. Anne3 - me too! And LOL for the Mrs. Elton part."}, {"response": 4, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (23:42)", "body": "It would appear that I am the slowest one thus far. Even after reading your three posts, I'm still in the dark about the pun in the title. Anyone care to explain before we continue this discussion? TIA, Angela"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (01:17)", "body": "Angela: It would appear that I am the slowest one thus far. Even after reading your three posts, I'm still in the dark about the pun in the title. Anyone care to explain before we continue this discussion? It's not exactly a pun, Angela. It's making sport of Mrs. Elton in Emma who exposed herself as a pompous, self-important twit when she refered to her husband as \"My Cara Spousa\" Italian for \"My spouse/husband.\""}, {"response": 6, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (08:33)", "body": "Caro/Cara means \"dear one\" or something like that in Italian, doesn't it?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (12:57)", "body": "And \"Caro\" is a common British diminutive of Caroline."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (14:42)", "body": "Thanks for asking, Angela. Now I understand, too!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:17)", "body": "Thanks for the explanation, Cheryl. :-) I would have never gotten it, unless I read Emma again or had a basic understanding of Italian. I know enough of four languages to have gotten that in any of them, but Italian just isn't one of them. Meggin: With English as the second language I learned, I'm always willing to ask questions, esp. in a discussion as friendly as this. So, you are very welcome. :-) Now to get this discussion back on track ... Neither Darcy, nor Elizabeth are likely to get on the other's nerves. Although Darcy is an introvert and Elizabeth is an extravert, Darcy would occasionally want a companion to chat and discuss things with, esp. someone as intelligent and lively as she. With the introverted tendencies we see in Elizabeth, such as walking alone, or reading, I'm certain that she can find other things of interest if Darcy is in need of some privacy. Besides if she wants another companion, I'm certain Mrs. Reynolds would be a iable to discuss things regarding the house and most likely her master, whom she has known since he was four years old. Certainly once Bingley and Jane move within thirty miles of Pemberley, Elizabeth could always visit, if she was in dire need of company. The most likely problem is that Darcy and Elizabeth will never have enough time to spend with one another. With business keeping Darcy busy and an estate full of servants and eventually children to keep Elizabeth busy, more than likely they will never h ve all the time they wish to be together."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (19:56)", "body": "Angela, I agree that Lizzy and Darcy will be hard pressed to find enough time together; I am also sure they will each consult the other if they ever have a problem where they need a sounding board. In the meantime, Lizzy also has Georgiana to talk and discuss with - and I'm sure Georgiana will get more lively as she comes under Lizzy's influence. A very happy marriage all around! BTW, when I first saw the title of this topic I couldn't decide whether it referred to Mrs. Elton's \"caro sposo\" or Colin's Italian girlfriend!!;-)"}, {"response": 11, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (22:00)", "body": "Good point, Inko. I never thought of Georgiana. She would be an excellent sounding board for both. The only drawback would be if she marries someone who takes her well out of Derbyshire."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (11:26)", "body": "Mrs. Elton's \"caro sposo\" or Colin's Italian girlfriend!!;-) ROFLOL!Inko,imagine the Darcy-voice, \"Cara, cara,bellissima Isabella!\" Almost as good as \"Aimable et charmante Elisabet!\" Johanne Please say you understand what I'm trying to say here!I am SURE no-one else will!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "Gotcha! still wish I could find who did the dubbing of Darcy"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "Have either of you taped the dubbed version?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (14:04)", "body": "Must say I'm guilty and shared it too..."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (01:06)", "body": "Back to caro sposos'.. Caro Bingley would make a very generous husband from his easy going nature. He was very kind to the Wickhams and sensible enough to move away from Netherfield where connections, that could and would embarrass must have been hounding them on a regular basis. Besides, he and Jane too would never get on each other's nerves. Jane never wanting to see the faults in others and Bingley, a pleasing personality which will neither give or take offence. Though I think Darcy would be the stronger of the two and more appealing (to me). I wonder how Miss Bingley and Mrs Hurst must have gotten on with Jane hereon after?? It must have been a real pill to swallow."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "Amy, gotta admit that I have Johanne's copy, and am very reluctant to give it back. They have done an amazing job with the translation. Lady C has a marvellous raspy, smoker's voice and some lovely lines. Darcy doesn't have his Hmmm. or even the OOOOHNO! in the inn scene ( it's kind of ah, non, non!- very much more low-key, still good.) Mrs Bennet is all screechy and wonderful. Even having the commercials in a different place puts a different slant on the story. Johanne, I'll mail it back now, since March Break is here and I have time to Breathe! Serena, cara, apologia!No more interruptions!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Nicole", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:33)", "body": "Caroline and Johanne, Yes I also thought that the dubbing was very well done, when I was watching it I got caught up in the story once again and forgot about the dubbing. I thought that it was interesting that they kept the word Miss in, I guess Mademoiselle is too long... Although in Valmont they used it all the time. Oh well I'm just thinking out loud now."}, {"response": 19, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (11:28)", "body": "Yes but Valmont was set in France, P&P in England, so they might have thought to use the proper tone, giving it the english feel it deserved. Glad we can shae this together. Anyone interested in viewing it, pray do not hesitate to ask for the tape, will be glad to share it and you'll have another lucky P&P short version at the end as an added bonus :)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (16:31)", "body": "A bonus indeed, Johanne! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 186, "subject": "Austen Sequels", "response_count": 73, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (06:01)", "body": "Alright, I read Billington's Perfect Happiness , the most recent and supposed best of the Emma sequels to date. I believe I could have liked it less only if it were the sacreligious Emma Tennant sequel. Okay, I hated the treatment of Frank (the peanut gallery yawns and says, \"Right, Kali, sure...\")...she made him out to be some ineffectual, psyco-lunatic rather than the capable (the man sure can fix a pair of spectacles!), if flaky and selfish, character of Austen's creation. Billington makes John into a greedy, uninsightful apparition, and confines Mr. Knightley, for the most part, to functional muteness, simple insipidity, and intellectual ignorance. Sick-and-wrong! I disliked her new characters and their influence on Emma (which, thank God, doesn't last), and thought some of her metaphors ridiculous (one involving Mr. Elton and a cough drop pops into my mind). While I did like her general development of Emma's character, esp. re: views on children, learning, etc., it seemed that most other characters and general plot continuity (esp. re: Frank) suffered. Mr. Knightley and Emma spend much of the story as ships passing in the night, which bugs generally, not to mention the fact that it reminds me of the dodge-and-thrust moves Alexandra Ripley puts Rhett and Scarlett through in her Scarlett sequel to GWTW. In general, I thought that Billington's and Ripley's sequels had parallel faults (are these common traits, perhaps, the ingredients of all unsuccessful sequels?) - Everything goes down hill when Scarlett puts off for Ireland, and when Emma rots off to London. Change of scene and society, while it may make for explosive new possiblities in plot development, really screws with the authenticity of the mood."}, {"response": 2, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (11:07)", "body": "Just a reminder, I have a WWW page at: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austseql.html"}, {"response": 3, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "I think it should be a general rule: AVOID AT ALL COST, LIKE THE PLAGUE!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (16:34)", "body": "Does anyone know anything about the new P&P sequel advertised in the spring 97 edition of JASNA news? It's called 'Duty and Desire'."}, {"response": 5, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "The best P&P \"sequel\" (actually, it's a modern update) I've read is: Kate Fenton's LIONS & LIQUORICE. An absolute scream, and darned if I don't have a topic posted on this very board about it!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (09:45)", "body": "I recently read two Emma sequels or \"classic progression\" as they were called. What a joke! Emma in Love by Tennant was horrible! Perfect Happiness was not much better. What is this business in both of Emma being happy, but not really \"happy\". I choose to think that Emma would be perfectly happy with Mr. Knightly. I cannot believe that he would not be a passionate lover from the very beginning. I am trying to read Pemberly now, but I might not make it through."}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (11:20)", "body": "The Tennant sequels to P&P are quite horrible. The last one was so bad I literally couldn't get past page 10. There's a play by Jane Murfin based on P&P that isn't half-bad; ditto, the play by E.B. White. But these are dramatizations as opposed to sequels. I've also read SHADES OF PEMBERLEY. Yech. Have yet to find a decent sequel beyond our own Writer's Guild here."}, {"response": 8, "author": "haker", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (12:22)", "body": "Has any one read Joan Austen-Leigh's Latter Days at Highbury ? I just saw it in two bookstores yesterday, and I was wondering if it was any good."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (12:47)", "body": "Hi Ann , are you visiting that cybercaf\ufffd again. Hope your computor will be back and dine with you...ooups at your service before long, I meant to say. That autorname does seem to imply some definite value...though I have never heard of the book. Dare I say that if you must read something after P&P, Presumption was not all that bad. Though it concentrates on Georgiana and has very little to tell about Darcy and Lizzy (from what I remember). Has anyone read Jane Fairfax ?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (13:56)", "body": "No, Ann2, but I might like to. Everyone knows I have a special interest in the affairs of that lady."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (17:18)", "body": "]I am trying to read Pemberly now please, I beg you; Don't do it! it's truly horrible!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (19:06)", "body": "I think we can rule out Emma Tennant per se. \"An equal marriage\" left a foul taste. Kali, apart from passion, can you imagine how it must feel like to be married to someone who is 'always right'. It must be so humiliating and I know I would be very frustrated. Perhaps, she'll mature into what he wants to mould her into. But this is just for the sake of conversation, I do love the novel and the Knightley / Emma characters."}, {"response": 13, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (19:07)", "body": "Kim, listen to Anna. Don't waste your time on that dribble. I'd rather have a root canal than read that book again!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "Isn't it a pity that Emma Tennant doesn't visit this site to get some real, honest opinions of her books!! Doubt it would have much effect, though!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (21:13)", "body": "Kali, apart from passion, can you imagine how it must feel like to be married to someone who is 'always right'. It must be so humiliating and I know I would be very frustrated. Perhaps, she'll mature into what he wants to mould her into. The rub here is that Mr. Knightley actually is always right...well, except for maybe his first impressions of Harriet, and he was a bit hard on my dear Frank...but where it really matters (re: Harriet, for ex.), he is quick to point out his mistakes and apologize for them. Also, Mr. Knightley has not, for all of his blusterings, treated Emma in a humiliating fashion...he makes it very clear that he respects her intelligence and fully expects her to snap out of any foolishness she's mired in (\"Upon my word, Emma, to hear you abusing the reason you have...better be without sense than misapply it as you do.\"). This isn't Pygmalion at Galatea...Mr. Knighltey isn't fashioning a dream for himself, he's trying to help Emma reach the height of her adult potential (even if it is only to be wasted on Frank) - this is a guy with quite a bit on the ball and a very young, silly girl who needs a bit of prodding to save her from herself. She does eventually come around, with his help - and when she does, he's there waiting for her. :::)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (21:34)", "body": "... can you imagine how it must feel like to be married to someone who is 'always right'. It must be so humiliating and I know I would be very frustrated. Such men do exist in the real world. I am married to one, but I find it neither humiliating nor frustrating. I cherish the fact that he is more intelligent than I in some areas for his guidance is invaluable. In matters where he is not as experienced, he does not hesitate to ask questions in order to further his own understanding. He is 'never wrong' because he never places himself in a position where he is dependent on the whims and inconsistencies of his character. In most ways, he is a better pers n than I am and the changes I've made for the better in the years since our marriage have come from observing his model of behavior. He has never tried to mold me in to his character---he is mostly oblivious to his own virtues. Just because one is never wrong does not necessarily mean that a snobbish attitude is necessary, but Tennant does not sound perceptive enough to realize that......"}, {"response": 17, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (21:36)", "body": "I read \"Jane Fairfax\" by Aiken, and it was Ok (serviceable, but not really enthralling); for me it was much better than Presumption and not quite as good as the 1975 Sanditon -- the two other sequels I've read (well OK, I actually returned Presumption to the library one third of the way through...)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (00:23)", "body": "Kali, Mr. Knightley shall never want for a defense with you around (what a lawyer you will make!) -- thanks for saying it for the rest of us! Serena, you bring up lots of good points -- we're just SOOOOO loyal! Meggin, it sounds like you have a husband in a million!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (00:50)", "body": "And I do love Mr Knightley so passionately too.. darling Willoughby takes a close second place. I think it's Meggin who should take the credit - her willingness to appreciate and uphold the man she loves. Are there any sequels to S&S? Or have I overlooked it from above."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (04:13)", "body": "Meggin is indeed lucky! Sorry if I become strident in my defenses of my dearest Mr. Knightley...I guess that only the true believers understand! ;) So H...should I bother with JF or not?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (11:09)", "body": "What's all this talk about \"Pride & Prejudice - The Musical.\" I understand there's one lurking out there that's FOR REAL. I mean, there _is_ a \"Titanic - the Musical\" ready to go on Broadway now, so anything's possible. . ."}, {"response": 22, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "Although I am not certain about a \"real\" musical, the Friends of Firth have a tongue-in-cheek musical version of P&P at: http://www.grin.net/~meluchie/firthlist/ppmusical.html It's quite funny."}, {"response": 23, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:38)", "body": "Anything is possible, Amy. Last January, I saw Jane Eyre, the musical in Toronto. It a big extravaganza-heading for Broadway. I admit I was skeptical, but the songs(I'm still swooning over Secret Soul) and the performances(Anthony Crivello from Kiss Of the Spider Woman played Rochester) won me over. The best Bertha I ever saw too-just the way I had always imagined her: untamed hair, wild eyes, foaming at the mouth. It was incredible."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "There is a musical. I am a little foggy on it. It may have been run a short time -- or never produced, not sure. At any rate there is a CD and a web site, which is linked from the links page here."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (17:34)", "body": "Re P&P musical: there have been two. The more recent one which Amy refers to, and an older one, circa 1959 or thereabouts, called First Impressions. I stumbled across it years ago while researching another Broadway production that opened in the same season, and I distinctly remember reading at least one favorable review, but it's obviously vanished from view. I wonder if the book and score survive."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (17:51)", "body": "Serena: Are there any sequels to S&S? Or have I overlooked it from above. There is a sequel called \"The Third Sister\" by Julia Barrett. It's about Margaret when she's in her late teens and her sisters are both married. I got it in England in paperback last summer - says published 1996. I think it's also available here - saw it in hardback at Borders before Christmas. It's not bad - certainly much better than Tennant, but I think it makes Margaret rather tame - I've always thought of her as the adventurous type!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "Thanks Inko,I'll now place my order with one of the internet bookstores for this and Darcy's Story. Margaret probably learned from her older sisters' heartbreaks and conforms to what society expects of a lady??"}, {"response": 28, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (11:00)", "body": "It seems we're all in agreement that we dislike the Tennant sequels. If this woman so offends the faithful, then why does she keep publishing? Does ANYONE like her work?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (12:54)", "body": "Amy2: It seems we're all in agreement that we dislike the Tennant sequels. If this woman so offends the faithful, then why does she keep publishing? Does ANYONE like her work? About Emma Tennant: there was a story in the N.Y. Times a while back about her. She had been hired to write another sequel to GWTW (because, incredibly, the guy making the decision had actually liked Pemberley). She produced a long MS pretty quickly, but it was rejected by the American publisher, who wrote an unusually harsh memo criticizing her characterizations, plot, style, and everything else that goes into making a novel. Tennant was reportedly very upset, and the matter caused a minor fur r in Britain. As to how she ever got published in the first place, I understand that she has a lot of influential family and friends--her father was an aristocrat and Antonia Fraser is a pal."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (13:47)", "body": "Is she related to Stella Tennant, the model? She's BB, too..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:58)", "body": "So her book must be selling to us-unsuspecting folks and her family and father's friends.. that could be a lot of people."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Serena", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (17:00)", "body": "Just another thougt, may be they didn't realise her books were sequels. On it own, would her books have fared any better? I'm too bias to answer that."}, {"response": 33, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (18:59)", "body": "BB?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "summit", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:09)", "body": "BB?? Big bucks? Big Business? British Bore/Boor? Beavis & Butthead? endless sarcastic permutations... ;-)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "How about Blue Bloods?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:34)", "body": "Kathleen got it."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:41)", "body": "Kali, come to Pemberley. There is a party going on."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "wish i could go (darn ole aol!) :-("}, {"response": 39, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (00:54)", "body": "Ok, I missed that party sob! sob! signed in as eveyone was signing off. But.. here's what Publisher's Weekly thought of Emma Tennant's continuation of P&P \"Austen's cast of minor familiars gets a delicious comic workout while (Tennant's) descriptions surpass Asuten's in visual effects of art, decor and gardens. Austenites and Tennantites should love the whole package.\" Am I dense or does that really not say much about the book? I know this is not Tennant-bashing, but the book's lying here right in front of the keyboard."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (01:29)", "body": "You're right, Serena. It doesn't say anything. Sounds like it was written by somebody who does not love Austen. Certainly none of us care that she does not describe nature."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (03:37)", "body": "Oh, bother! I missed the party! :("}, {"response": 42, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (03:52)", "body": "Hi Kali, still awake??"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:12)", "body": "Hiya! Yeah...as you already know! How are you?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (04:16)", "body": "This is ridiculous, I'm 'chatting' with you in 3 topics - I'll stay at Emma2 with the lovely pics."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (05:18)", "body": "CIndy and I were doing the same thing this morning...I mean, YESTERDAY morning! ;)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (16:31)", "body": "Sooo. that would be my nighttime?? Anyway, I'm off to sunny skies in Aussie land for a short break.. If I find internet access, I'll tune in here with my 2 cents worth. See ya all! Maybe I'll get to see Mimic afterall"}, {"response": 47, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (10:59)", "body": "So Tennant surpasses Austen in setting descriptions,eh? That's like saying that Jackie Collins uses funnier character names than Dickens. . ."}, {"response": 48, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (11:12)", "body": "]BB?? Big bucks? Big Business? British Bore/Boor? Beavis & Butthead? endless sarcastic permutations... ;-) Nobody mentionned Brigitte Bardot :)"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (12:58)", "body": "Johanne: Nobody mentionned Brigitte Bardot :) Or the Big Bopper! ;-)"}, {"response": 50, "author": "MUSHER", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (20:47)", "body": "I like most of the sequels in the Derbyshire Writers Guild, I've written a couple but don't know what to do with them. I'm looking foreward to Oscar night in the hope that all the cas of TEP will be there. Lucie Oftedahl"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "I have heard (on E!'s Gossip Show) that Feinnes will not be at the Oscars. KST and Binoche will be there though."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (21:41)", "body": "Fiennes will definitely be at the Oscars. He is currently appearing in a play in London but there will be no performance on Oscar night so he can be in L.A. Miramax is picking up the tab for the lost box office."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (21:46)", "body": "Cool, he must have worked things out with the play's producers. Glad to hear that I'm wrong. Now let's hope he has shaved off that hideous mustache he has been sporting lately."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "I think he grew the moustache for the play! (Chekhov's Ivanov .)"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (22:08)", "body": "Difficult to shave the moustache and grow it back for the next night's performances! I guess he'll be there, moustache and all. Saw a picture of him and KST on the cover of Entertainment weekly--he had the moustache and she had her present short, blond hair."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (03:29)", "body": "\"Why don't you just DIE, already! DIE!!!\" - Elaine, to TEP, 3/13/97, Seinfeld"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (09:16)", "body": "Amy2 Concerning Dickens and JCollins, SG (Short giggle)"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (09:46)", "body": "Re #50 Lucie I've written a couple but don't know what to do with them. Post them, Lucie! Just like you did here, in either Fan Fiction thread, depending on whether they're PG- or R-rated. I look forward to them!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (11:30)", "body": "- Elaine, to TEP, 3/13/97, Seinfeld Ah! Elaine was just jealous because she wasn't in that tub."}, {"response": 60, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (12:39)", "body": "Elaine was right! The movie was way too long and I didn't find it all that romantic either. Maybe if she hadn't cheated on her husband I would have felt some sorrow that she died alone in that cave."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "To get back to the topic theme: Has anyone read Joan Austen-Leigh's \"A visit to Highbury\"? I found it in the public library today so took it out and hopefully get to it by the time it's due back!!"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "\"and hopefully get to it by the time it's due back!!\" I am very familiar with that problem!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:58)", "body": "If Pemberley Shades is supposed to be such a good sequel, why doesn't somebody bring it out again. Hmm."}, {"response": 64, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (07:46)", "body": "Just bought \"Jane Fairfax\" and the \"Third Sister\" cannot decide which one to start on first.. So who is Pemberly Shades by??"}, {"response": 65, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (20:07)", "body": "Kali: also Patsy on AB FAB about her mother: \"Oh for God's sake, just die!\" I think I mentioned above that I've read Pemberley Shades and it's not good. Not good. That must be the reason for no reissue. . ."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (03:21)", "body": ":)"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (11:56)", "body": "Anybody ever heard of this book or tape set? Author: Weldon Fay Title: Darcy's Utopia (7 Cassettes) Publ. year: 01.94 Availability: 001 Order Now! Binding: AA Price: $ 61.95 D ISBN: 1850896739 Textbook: W Publisher: ISIS PRESS Subjects: CAS-AUDIO-FICTION-UNABRIDGED Could it be a blueprint for my mythical nation?"}, {"response": 68, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (14:40)", "body": "Here'a what I was able to turn up on a web-search: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0140145419/2156-3110129-842000 Darcy's Utopia by Fay Weldon Reprint Edition Paperback Published by Penguin USA (Paper) Publication date: July 1992 http://www.lib.hel.fi/yleis/nfff/nfff952.html Author: WELDON, Fay Title: Hyv\ufffd paha onnela Orig. title: Darcy's Utopia Publisher: Otava, 1995 ISBN 951-1-12331-9 Two journalists, a man and a woman, interview a woman who prophesies of a new utopia and have a short-lived but intensive love affair. A satirical description of conflict between utopia and reality. Translated from English. ISBN: 0140145419"}, {"response": 69, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:52)", "body": "Fay Weldon is a familiar name to me. She has written some other P&P-related book/play in the past. . ."}, {"response": 70, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:56)", "body": "Fay Weldon wrote the book, Letters to Alice on First Reading Jane Austen. And didn't she write the screenplay for P&P2?"}, {"response": 71, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:59)", "body": "Duhh -- I meant P&P1, the adaptation w/ Elizabeth Garvie and David Rintoul."}, {"response": 72, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (16:31)", "body": "Yes she wrote the P&P1 screenplay. She's written a number of other novels also."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (18:06)", "body": "I found \"Jane Fairfax\" to be a fairly decent accompaniment to Emma. Amy2, I must have missed your earlier thumbs-down posting for Pemberly Shades. Is there any sequel to Mansfield Park.. or have that been covered too? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 187, "subject": "Myers-Briggs Type Indicator", "response_count": 80, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (17:33)", "body": "I'll start this out for Angela with a link to an online site for the Keirsey Temperament Sorter. The Keirsey Temperament Sorter"}, {"response": 2, "author": "valen", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (19:15)", "body": "Myretta, glad to see this topic, I'd be very interested in following this conversation. Hope everyone jumps on the band wagon."}, {"response": 3, "author": "valen", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (19:49)", "body": "Myretta, glad to see this topic, I'd be very interested in following this conversation. Hope everyone jumps on the band wagon."}, {"response": 4, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "Thanks, Myretta. That's probably the best place to start to get an understanding of personality typing. To get things started, let's look at the personality types of the main characters. Elizabeth - ENFJ (Incidentally, this personality is best suited for the clergy.) Darcy - ISTJ or INTJ Jane - ISFP? Bingley - ES?P Elizabeth (ENFJ) is an Extravert because of her lively disposition, although she can be introspective enough to be a borderline Introvert as an Extravert gets energy from external sources while Introverts get energy from internal sources. As an iNtuitive and Feeling type, she is good at discerning people and their dispositions. It also adds to her charm as she can instinctively shift her tone and body language to push her position in a conversation. As a Judging person, she makes judgements based on what he sees, as she judges Darcy from his external behaviour. Darcy (ISTJ or INTJ) is a definite and probably extreme Introvert as he appears to have little external reaction to others and any opinions are kept safely inside. He tires easily at social occasions as other people sap his energies as in the Meryton assembly. He thinks before he speaks and \"doesn't perform to strangers\". As a Sensing type, he is suppose to zone in on little details, esp ISTJs. Attention to detail is one of the best characteristics of a Sensor. As an affirmed ISTJ, I'm not so sure that Da cy fits as well in this category. He makes judgements based not always on facts, but rather by what he believes and projects, which is more of an iNtuitive trait. INTJs are known to be people who make quick decisive decisions and sticks to them. When he rides ahead of the rest of the party to Pemberley, it seems to be to pay attention to detail for his guests, but I think it could be just to get away from Caroline Bingley for a bit. As an Introvert Thinker, he would have trouble handling and dealing with ifficult people, which Miss Bingley definitely was. As for being a Judging type, the book is called Pride and Prejudice. It would be quite odd if the hero was someone who was not a judger. :-) Jane (ISFP?) is less outwardly oriented than Elizabeth, which is why I chose her to be an introvert. She doesn't appear to have a close friend outside the family, unlike Elizabeth who at least has Charlotte. As she appears to take people at face value and pays attention to detail, which is why I thought her to be a Sensor. She cares deeply not to hurt people and she is good with people, esp. children (as evidence, the Gardiner children), which makes me believe her to be a Feeling type. Finally for the Jud ing vs. Perception, that was the hardest and I'm still not sure which she is. She takes the wait and see approach on everyone's character and is careful not to judge them until she knows the extent of their actions, which is a typical perceptive type reaction. However, she exhibits the characteristics of an ISFJ, which are people who instinctively seem to know what presents to give everyone at Christmas. Do we have more evidence of one or the other? Bingley (ES?P) enjoys large parties with strangers (Meryton assembly) and makes quick decisions (as his quick acceptance of Netherfield as well as the comment he made regarding leaving it), both very much Extravert and Perception type qualities. I guessed at the Sensing type as he doesn't appear to go beyond the facts that Darcy and his sisters present to him in regards to Jane, but at the same time he doesn't appear to be a detailed oriented type of person, which makes him more of an iNtuitive. Any sugge tions? Other characters?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (21:23)", "body": "Bingley ESTP? \"I think.....\" \"She would be just as (forgot- not got book here) to me if she had relatives to fill all of Cheapside\" \"It shows a great affection for her sister\" Do I make sense here?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Sat, Mar  8, 1997 (22:54)", "body": "I'll have to look up an ESTP's profile again. But, from your evidence, Caroline, it sounds about right, esp. the \"fill all of Cheapside comment\". Since about 60% of thinkers are men, it is quite possible. Let me get back to you once I re-read the profile."}, {"response": 7, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (05:02)", "body": "There was a previous round of discussion on this topic during the fall of '96 which should be inclucded in the archives from the old BBS. For a little fun, go to the site of The Keirsey Temperament Sorter, and assume the role of one of the characters and answer the questions as you think s/he would have done based on Jane Austen's illustration of their personalities. JA has done such a good job of illustrating her characters that they will come out as a particular \"type\" a significant percentage of the ime no matter who answers the questions on their behalf."}, {"response": 8, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (19:08)", "body": "Joan, too: That's a good idea. The only thing is that I'm not very good at getting into someone else's shoes even if they are Darcy, Elizabeth, or any of the P&P gang. However, if anyone else wants to make an attempt, I'm more than happy to see the results. :-) Why don't you start, since you suggested it? That means that you get to pick from the entire pool of characters. Caroline, I read the ESTP profile in a book called Type Talk. (I'm not sure of who the author is since I don't have the book with me at work.) It seems that the ESTP profile is right on the money for Bingley. It mentions how ESTPs are very engaging and gregarious, even more so than any of the other types, which would explain why Bingley and Darcy are friends, as Darcy the Introvert is not likely to seek out new friends. Also, it mentions that ESTPs will drop whatever they are doing if they discover that i isn't worth the effort, and may be impatient with things that take a long time, which corresponds to the part when Elizabeth is at Netherfield during Jane's illness and Bingley says that he's very impatient with writing letters and how words seem to spill out faster than he can write them down. Very ESTP! Also after reading the profiles, I am incline to believe that Jane is an ISFJ because ISFJ children tend to be quiet, obedient, and well-organized, which I can see Jane being. I just can't explain away the non-judgemental aspect of her. As well, I am incline to believe that Darcy is more of an INTJ rather than an ISTJ because ISTJs are always doing things because it is part of their duty. They will adopt personalities that are suited for each occasion because they see it as their duty to act properly in a l situations. Darcy obviously does not do it as he shows a definite distaste at the Meryton assembly. Also, INTJs will always seek improvement in everything and everyone. They will do things just to improve. So when Elizabeth tells him that \"had he behaved in a more gentleman-like manner\", he improves himself to behave more gentlemanly. Also, he mentions at Netherfield that an accomplished lady should also improve her mind by extensive reading. I know in the Old BB discussions, two people who took the tes as Darcy found him to be an ISTJ. I'm most interested in what evidence they have to back that view when they took the test because as a confirmed ISTJ, I don't see him as one. As a character, he is imminently more interesting than I."}, {"response": 9, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (00:28)", "body": "Why don't you start, since you suggested it? I already did in the earlier round. Did both Darcy and Lizzie, as did Steve (no longer with us) - and we both came up with the same types (though not exactly the same scores within a classification.)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (10:51)", "body": "thanks, Angela and Joan. Now, Joan,tell me what I really want to know.............Did anyone do the temprement sorter in the guise of our favourite movie star, and if so, what did they come up with? Because it certainly wouldn't be Darcy's profile!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (18:18)", "body": "Joan, too: Since you were one of the two people who found Darcy to be an ISTJ, I'm wondering if you remember what answers you gave on the test? I know it's been a while, but if you can I would really be interested. Caroline, I would be interested in knowing that, too. Now onto type watching other characters. Lady Catherine - I would be inclined to see her as an ESFJ, but I am not certain. She is an Extravert because she likes having guests at Rosings even when they are just the Collinses and when Elizabeth, Darcy, and Col. Fitzwilliam are at the piano at Rosings, she interrupts them because \"she must have her share of the conversation\". Both typical characteristics of Extraverts. She is most likely a Sensor, because she pays extraordinary care of details even to the point of shelves in the closet in Elizabeth s room while she is staying at Hunsford. A Feeler because she has specific opinion that are strictly her own. A judger because she so frequently makes decisions quickly about everyone. The only thing that mystifies me is that ESFJs are suppose to be emminent hosts and hostesses, which I have trouble seeing. Can anyone think of facts that would back up that aspect of an ESFJ personality? Mrs. Bennet - I see her as an ESFP. She reminds me a lot of my mother-in-law, who is a definite ESFP! Extraverted because she likes attention as evidenced by the theatrics she gave on Lydia's elopement. As well as, constantly talking about her nerves. Sensing because she seems grounded in real world things. (I really don't have any real evidence to back that up, though.) Feeling because she is never objective about anything. Perceiving because she has troubles keeping a limit on excesses, which Judgers ge erally keep a better rein (sp?) on. Mr. Bennet now is a mystery. I can see him as an Introvert because he spends many hours locked up in his library and an iNtuitive because of his sarcasm and wit. However, I cannot determine his other types. Anyone want to hazard a guess?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (03:05)", "body": "Since you were one of the two people who found Darcy to be an ISTJ, I'm wondering if you remember what answers you gave on the test? Sorry, I can't even remember what the questions were at this point, much less the answers. But now that you have made predictions about Lady C. and Mr. and Mrs. B., try answering the questions \"as\" them, and try to come up with something that JA revealed about each of them to support the answer to each question and see how it comes out. It is true, of course, that even when taking the tempreament sorter \"as\" yourself, your own answers will vary from time to time depending on your mood and how your life has been going, or whether you answer as your \"personal\" or \"professional\" self."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (12:52)", "body": "It is true, of course, that even when taking the tempreament sorter \"as\" yourself, your own answers will vary from time to time depending on your mood and how your life has been going, or whether you answer as your \"personal\" or \"professional\" self. True Joan.Truth to tell, the first time I tried it (ages ago, before I even discovered this board) I came out as IXXX, which was absolutely usesless! The distribution of personality types is also touched upon at that site, I believe, and the authors express some surprise as to the percentages of each type represented by the samples in relation to the population at large and to the population of the internet.I havn't the heart to tell them that it might be because there are hundreds of demented Lizzy and D rcy Wannabes, Napoleon imitators, teens with random selector buttons for fingers, not to mention confused adults like me messing up their statistics for them."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:09)", "body": "I would love to see someone's assesment of Caroline Bingley; Angela, care to have a go at it?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (03:09)", "body": "and the authors express some surprise as to the percentages of each type represented by the samples in relation to the population at large and to the population of the internet. I havn't the heart to tell them that it might be because there are hundreds of demented Lizzy and Darcy Wannabes... Oh dear! Have they commented on that now? I must admit that I did feel a bit guilty responding as fictitious people. If they are seriously trying to keep statistics, perhaps someone should enlighten them? (Although there's really no way that they can expect to guarantee that all people participating via the net will be taking it seriously.)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (10:49)", "body": "Well I have just taken the test and I have come out ENTJ. Which I thinks suits me to a t. I'm definitely power hungry."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (12:13)", "body": "Oh, a fellow ENTJ! I read a description of the type that made me LOL - it's like our motto should be, \"hey, it's good to be blunt! You got a problem with that, peon?\""}, {"response": 18, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (12:35)", "body": "Tracey awesome line, that's exactly how I am!!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (14:24)", "body": "Any other INFJs out there? I was so impressed with what I read about this personality type because it was me, even down to occupation (teacher, but with a background in science and mathematics). They knew all of this from 65 questions? ;-) BTW, under the description for INTJ, Darcy is listed with a group of 'famous fictional INTJs\", along with Hannibal Lecter!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "]BTW, under the description for INTJ, Darcy is listed with a group of 'famous fictional INTJs\", along with Hannibal Lecter! Yow! I guess we'd know to avoid a dinner date at Pemberley if the menu included fava beans and a nice chianti! ;)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (14:39)", "body": "Margaret, Hilary and I are almost your type; we are both INFP/borderline J's."}, {"response": 22, "author": "summit", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:23)", "body": "In a rare moment of candor, let me say I am an archetypal INTJ (married to an INTP, which makes for some pretty psychically synchronized conversations!) so reading Darcy's character in Austen's writing (and extending him in my own jottings) is nearly self-analysis at times... ;-)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (21:42)", "body": "Another INFJ (teacher type) here."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:00)", "body": "I've come out as INFP three times now, so I guess I'll stick with it. How do you feel being the same as Fanny Price, Amy?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:05)", "body": "INFJ (but I know in the past it came out ISFJ, but close)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "It's nice to know that there are other INFJs out there----when I read that only 2% of the population was, I felt freakish (what-do-the-rest-of-you-have-that-I-don't kind of thing).;-) Which of Austen's characters would be INFJ? Jane Bennet?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:46)", "body": "I don't mind being thrown in with Fanny; I'm not a Fanny hater. But I don't particularly identify with her."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (22:52)", "body": "On second thought, scratch the Jane suggestion---I'm never that nice! But there was a point in my life when I was an \"Anne Elliot\" type...."}, {"response": 29, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (22:56)", "body": "re: 14 Sorry I haven't been around the last couple of days to predict Caroline Bingley. I have a deadline on Monday, and I just got a chance to drop by for a few minutes to drop off the prediction. After Monday, I'll get a chance to do more characters. Here's a stab. Caroline Bingley is quite snobbish, so that can cloud type watching somewhat. From what we have, she appears to be an Extravert, because she does seek out society even though we mainly see her seeking out Darcy. Also, she generally speaks before she thinks, which is another Extravert trait. Finally, she appears to be interested in being acquainted with more people than actually knowing them, which is another trait of an Extravert. She also appears to be rooted in details, as she points all of Elizabeth's ut in front of Darcy at Pemberley, and she asks about Georgiana's height at Netherfield, which would point her towards a Sensor type. As a person with lots of personal opinion, she appears to be a Feeler, but I'm going to have to take a look at her in better detail to confirm this type. Finally, she is more calculating than spontaneous, and she has a tendency to make judgements about people rather quickly, which points to a Judging personality. Thus, by this quick evaluation, she, like Lady Catherine, is n ESFJ, perhaps to a smaller degree as she has less power than Lady C. However, ESFJs can have problems with reality, so this may not be so far off. re: 12 Joan, Too: I can get a copy of the questions from the Kiersey book, as well as how to calculate the answers. So over the next week or two (after my deadline), I try to take a stab at my predictions, trying the test on paper. This way, I won't mess up anyone's statistics. Glad to see that this topic is picking up. Sometimes, taking the test as a character can be misleading, especially if the character is an introvert. Being an introvert, your most dominant type is hidden, and even the reverse of the type can be hard to detect. For instance, Sensors can be cast as iNtuitives or Feelers can be cast as Thinkers. The alternative is to type watch, which in my opinion is the reverse of taking the test as someone. What you do is take the type description and try to match the pers n to the type. There are usually key points of a person's personality that jump out at you when you read the type and match it with what you see. Which is essentially what I've done for the characters I have covered. A book I would recommend for Type Watching is called Type Talk by Otto Kroeger and Theresa Theusen (?). I don't have the book with me at the computer, but it covers a lot on Type Watching and what to look for. It also discusses how a person of a certain personality would parent, find life par ners, even how they could behave as children. Anyway, back to the grindstone. See ya next Tuesday!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:08)", "body": "Wow! Thanks Angela, and good luck with your Monday deadline."}, {"response": 31, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (14:05)", "body": ""}, {"response": 32, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (14:06)", "body": ""}, {"response": 33, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "Here's what I got when I took the test in August 1996: Keirsey Temperament Test Results EI: 10 out of 10 Introvert 100% SN: 14 out of 17 iNtuition 82% TF: 5 out of 13 Feeling 38% JP: 3 out of 18 Perceiving 16% Your Jungian Personality type is INTJ And here's what I got today: Keirsey Temperament Test Results EI: 10 out of 10 Introvert 100% SN: 14 out of 18 iNtuition 77% TF: 9 out of 20 Feeling 45% JP: 6 out of 19 Perceiving 31% Your Jungian Personality type is INTJ"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (17:56)", "body": "I'm split between ISTJ and INTJ, but the description of INTJ fits me very well."}, {"response": 35, "author": "summit", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (09:10)", "body": "Good grief, that makes 3 of us INTJ! Any other synchronicity such as being horrifically hardworking (often behind-the-scene but still putting out 150% contrasted to others' 100%) sign like Capricorn or? I thought so..."}, {"response": 36, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (10:20)", "body": "I'm a Capricorn; in fact, I was born on ;-) (Not that astrology means anything...)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (11:33)", "body": "cute tree,and not that liking a certain \"color\" should mean anything either."}, {"response": 38, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (17:18)", "body": "The tests usually tell me I am XXTJ, but I figure the extroverted characteristics are learned behaviors and that the 'sensing' characteristice may be also - part of being older and part of raising a daughter. The INTJ description seems to fit me best. The 'test people' say INTJ's are the most unusual and here we seem to be becoming a majority. Interesting!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (17:40)", "body": "According to the test I'm an ISTJ - but I found I answered a lot of the questions with what I'd prefer rather than what I actually do. Is that cheating? Never tried this before, but I also think some of it may change with age - except for the \"I\" part; I've always been that!!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:15)", "body": "I'm an INTJ with Cliff Claven tendencies ;-) Perhaps the predominence of INTJ's has something to do with the medium of the internet. Other people are out there in the real world, while we plunk away on our keyboards."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "ISTJ here. When I took the test yesterday, the statistics showed that ISTJ's were in the majority; more than 13%"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "Re #'s 39 and 41 Inko and Linda, I join you in ISTJdom. I printed out the descriptions and they sound very like me -- hubby agrees."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:19)", "body": "Sheesh! For a bunch of introverts you all sure are doing a lot of talking! ;-)"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:22)", "body": "Yes, but it's not face-to-face , Cheryl! %-)"}, {"response": 45, "author": "summit", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (07:28)", "body": "Yep, nothing like keyboarding (or in regency era, letterwriting alla Darcy) to preserve one's privacy and still communicate one's myriad intuitions! I was thinking the other day about how draining a job like teaching or seeing lots of patients can be to an INTJ (or similar IXXX)...my dad got around it by being a radiologist (like our keyboarding here, he saw patients via x-rays)...I get around it by teaching from the side or back of the room (I pace a lot too)...Freud was once asked why he/analysts sat back by the head of the patient, out of view; he said he couldn't tolerate all the eye contact daylong otherwise (besides its freeing up the patients t speak their issues aloud, I am sure)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (09:55)", "body": "Interesting, Wendy.This IXXX, who's really an INFP trying to cope with the real world in a sensible manner,teaches from the back of the room too,sitting down as well.However, I had always assumed it was because I wanted my students to look at the OHP, not me!As for INTJs being so common here, could it not be because they are all closet writers?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (10:05)", "body": "This thread on teaching is interesting. (I am an XXTJ who belives she is really a INTJ.) I loved teaching and always planned to get back to it. I have been a computer analyst since 1972 where the money is better. I always thought that I liked myself better when I was teaching - that I 'became' a less introverted person. I also have problems with assignments at work that require me to be a half time extrovert and a half time introvert, although I have always believed that I could do either role full time just fine. For example, if I have a lot of telephone work to do, I either ignore it to do my technical work or ignore the technical to do the telephone work. It is hard to juggle the two!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (13:56)", "body": "]Sheesh! For a bunch of introverts you all sure are doing a lot of talking! ;-) As diagnosted E... am not blabing that much, not that I don't want too :) Since bordering E/I, have a funny feeling E came with the standard package and later transformed to an I, custom-maid by life Welcome fellow E/I NFP"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "My \"I\" might have formed that way, too, J."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:40)", "body": "Re:#43 It is interesting that some elements of our personalities are exhibited in our postings. I was thinking about this topic while driving home the other day. I decided that you, Cheryl, and Kali must definitely be ENFPs. Re:#45 ]Yep, nothing like keyboarding... In real life (versus internet life), my closest friends are Exxx's. When with them, I can never get a word in edgewise. Here (although I am not very talkative here either), at least I can speak whenever I want. Linda"}, {"response": 51, "author": "summit", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "Linda- LOL at your last sentence. So true!! The other great one is when an E??J type very decidedly tell an I??? type how to live his/her life! \"Reserved behavior does not imply agreement!\" ;-) (Note: My #45 post use of IXXX really meant I???, any combo of introvert.) As to being a \"closet writer,\" I'm actually out in the open about it :-) (and I probably wouldn't be able to fit in one with this size computer and me) (although, if CF were to be present as well helping me, um, with typing, I'd probably attempt it)"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (10:27)", "body": "The other great one is when an E??J type very decidedly tell an I??? type how to live his/her life! \"Reserved behavior does not imply agreement!\" ;-) Wendy, very true! What does that say for Darcy and Lizzie? Maybe there are so many INTJ's here because of Jane Austen then?(Was she ISTJ or INTJ? the latter, I think.)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (13:48)", "body": "As an \"E,\" I must take up for my maligned group! I certainly don't tell the \"I\" types how to live their lives, I merely make well thought out suggestions, which of course intelligent folk must necessarily follow to secure their own happiness! Hrumph! ;-)"}, {"response": 54, "author": "summit", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (19:21)", "body": "How cute! I actually love being around E???s because of their very difference! (I'd better because, of course, my daughter is most emphatically an E??? [ESFJ?] already at age 9!!)"}, {"response": 55, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (19:29)", "body": "My favorite \"E\" (outside the family) is a neighbor who is like a breath of fresh air in my reserved world. No wonder Darcy loved Bingley so much."}, {"response": 56, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (20:04)", "body": "There seem to be darned few Es on this board. So, to balance things, I'll confess to being an ENFJ and will also publicly expose my sister Cheryl and an ENFP. We were beginning to think we were the only ones here."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Becks", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (00:01)", "body": "Guess what Auntie, My. It is all in the family--I am a ENFP!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (00:47)", "body": "Myretta: There seem to be darned few Es on this board. So, to balance things, I'll confess to being an ENFJ and will also publicly expose my sister Cheryl and an ENFP. Oh my! I've been \"outed\"! But I don't suppose that it comes as any great surprise that I'm an ENFP! We are delightful people, if I do say so myself, and being an ENF I certainly would! It's when you add that J to it that the ENF person gets a little pushy! ;-p (*samooch* sister!)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (03:26)", "body": "If I remember correctly, I am an ENFJ..."}, {"response": 60, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (07:03)", "body": "Kali: If I remember correctly, I am an ENFJ... Well I guess it does run in the family. Here we all are!! (But daughter, doesn't this make you a Lizzie?)"}, {"response": 61, "author": "summit", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (07:29)", "body": "Speaking of other characters/shows and their types, how about HOME IMPROVEMENT? Tim Allen and his wife? Neighbor Wilson Wilson?! Some amusing interaction there..."}, {"response": 62, "author": "jennyh", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "I am INTJ. I am quite suprised how many INTJ are here. Is it possible to become E when one is born I (as Lizzie suggested at Rosing)? jenny"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "I was born *very* \"I\" - I hid behind my mother a lot, and cried for a week when I started first grade. But I definitely got over it, partly because I hated being ignored. Hmmmmm, maybe I was always an E............. Seriously, I don't think that any of the four traits are necessarily fixed. Everyone can vary, depending on their mood or situation."}, {"response": 64, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "I think I might have been made into an \"I\". There was a minor childhood trauma that might have changed me from an \"E\" to an \"I\". I'll never know for sure."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (16:23)", "body": "When this indicator was given at work, the rep from the personnel company explained the M-B in a way that really struck a chord with me, and explains what many of you seem to be working towards. There are 16 possible score combinations, and these scores are like living in a 16 room house, and your score is the room you PREFER. You will, of couse, spend time in very room, depending on how you are feeling that day, and the people you spend the day with. This is the way of acting and reacting that you fin the most comfortable. You may think of another room as a \"power\" room, and prefer to be there when dealing with difficult people, etc. Because I was taking the test at work, I tended to answer the questions with my \"work\" hat on. I was torn on many questions becuase the answer would have been different at work that at home. I would like to take it again with my \"home\" hat on, and see what the differences would be. These would then be the two rooms that I spend most of my day. Has anyone else taken the test from two differing perspectives? I would be interested in the results."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (10:50)", "body": "Thanks, mom...I wish that did make me Lizzy! But you know that I don't really agree about the \"E\" in her chart...;) --- Wendy, you go! What a hilarious hodge-podge of personalities on that show..."}, {"response": 67, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "I'm back finally! My deadline is sort of over. My ISP finally decided to let me in today. (All I got were busy signals yesterday and after about an hour I gave up!) Anyway to more predictions. My next attempt is Lydia. Her personality's been on my mind the last couple of days for heaven knows why. I think she's an ENFP with some J tendencies, and the following are my reasons: (I will attempt a bulleted list. So my apologies, if it doesn't work.) She generally speaks before she thinks. (E) She loves and longs for Balls. (E) An introvert, esp. extreme introverts, would be tend to shy away from such large gatherings. She isn't a stickler for details. (N) She far from being objective about anything. (F) She's doesn't make many judgements. (P) The ones she does make are so that she can justify her view of the world. (i.e. Her comment about Mary King being a \"freckled thing\" because she doesn't like Wickham paying attentions to her.) My main justification of her type comes from an ENFP's profile. ENFPs are \"dynamic, enthusiastic, highly skilled with people, affirming, and gregarious\", which somewhat exemplifies Lydia. With ENFPs, \"The more the merrier\" is the theme. They are also \"rarely complacent in a relationship\", always thinking \"this relationship could be better, if I worked harder\" or \"There's a better relationship, still out there waiting for me\". They see the future as being endless possibilities and tend to ignore the presen , which is quite in character for Lydia. They also see the best in people and can ignore the worst. For example, Wickham \"is a fine horseman\", while she ignores the fact that he was willing to elope with her. I hope that this prediction doesn't offend those of you who are ENFP. To paraphrase someone we are all familiar with, I write as I find. :-) re:65 I have taken MBTI as my own person, and I have taken the Kiersey TS as a work person and I come out as ISTJ in both cases. There is a variation in the degree of each preference, for example, I'm more S, T, and J in my work than at home, but then my job (technical writer) is an ISTJ job. Actually, I found out about MBTI and personality typing when I was looking to change careers in my fourth year at university. I was in a Science program, which was more suited to INTJs than ISTJs, and consequently, I detes ed it. (There were also no jobs in my field, another incentive to change.) The only career that involved writing for an ISTJ personality was tech writing. Consequently, I love what I do, and I am a firm believer in MB personality typing."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (22:38)", "body": "Okay, then- what do Cheryl, Rebecca and Johanne think of Lydia?I have always rather liked her, despite everything. Don't ask me why, I'm no good at thinking........."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Becks", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (00:36)", "body": "I have always had a soft-spot for her. Yes, she is a silly young girl, but give her a chance to grow. And maybe if she wouldn have been in a different society, so would have been more refined. She reminds me a lot of the way I was in my early teens--I was a real terror."}, {"response": 70, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (00:52)", "body": "Rebecca: She reminds me a lot of the way I was in my early teens--I was a real terror. I'm so glad that I am just your auntie and not your mother! *samooch* ;-)"}, {"response": 71, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (06:21)", "body": "I adore Lydia in P&P2. I never stopped to think about how young she and Kitty were until I saw P&P2. She seems like so much fun in many of her scenes. And I can see the pressure on her be out in society at too young an age. How can Kitty be out and not Lydia when Lydia dominates Kitty. I am reminded of a family I knew in the early 60's whose 16 year old Lydia was pregnant by her long time 16 year old boy friend. In those days, married and/or pregnant girls had to transfer to a different high school or drop out so their lack of virginity would not contaminate their former classmates. The young couple married. Dad informed the school board that he would take them to court if they interferred with the girl's right to an education. He sat down with the kids and the boy's parents and mapped out a plan for them to continue their educations and become financially competent. The way he created a safety net around the kids instead of punishing them or letting anyone else punish them for the situation has always impressed me."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (20:55)", "body": "a really cool Dad, and a lucky couple, Katy!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (21:03)", "body": "That was the sixties - he was really bucking tradition. The school board changed its rules. The 'youngsters' are probably grandparents now."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (21:46)", "body": "I wonder how long their marriage lasted. Many of my dad's friends who got hitched as teenagers have long since separated...and at least two of the girls I know who married in high school were divorced before graduation..."}, {"response": 75, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (21:55)", "body": "Yikes! but I was wondering the same thing!"}, {"response": 76, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:23)", "body": "last I heard, in the early 90's, they were still together. but whether the marriage lasted or not, her dad was protecting her future and his grandchild's future by making sure they both finished high school and got job training afterwards."}, {"response": 77, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "Katy -- what a stand up thing for the father to do. It is never easy to buck convention (or the establishment). It was good when school systems (i.e., the public) began to realize that pregnant teenagers need an education, too."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:35)", "body": "Her dad did right, Katy."}, {"response": 79, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (20:17)", "body": "I'm going to branch off slightly this time. I just saw Emma T's S&S last Sunday and I just re-read the novel this week, so the next character I have typed is Elinor Dashwood. I believe her to be an ISTJ. Introvert because she is not expressive and actually prefers not to speak to others unless necessary. Sensing because she is the Sense in Sense and Sensibility, not to mention her attention to the real world. Thinking because she is always rationalizing and reasoning things out. Not to mention she tries a ways to be objective in the matters of the heart. Finally, she is Judging because she likes to make decisions ahead of time not to mention she rarely leaves things to the last minute. She is also always doing things that should be done, rather than things that catch her fancy--the embodiment of ISTJ's Next time I'll attempt Charlotte or Mr. Collins."}, {"response": 80, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (22:36)", "body": "Great, Angela! As a fellow ISTJ, I can relate to your suppositions. Sounds like Elinor to me. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 188, "subject": "Dalton Jane Eyre", "response_count": 79, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Luba", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (12:57)", "body": "Sorry, I`m not really sure what Virtual View means, but here`s my two cents: Jane Eyre is a favourite book with me, so I don`t think I will ever see one adaptation that, while being faithful to the book, has its vibrancy and drama. Even so, I liked the Dalton adaptation. Tim D. was quite a very good Rochester, very moving, full of life, Zelah Clarke was not the definite Jane, but it`s a difficult, I think. She wasn`t \"plain\", but she had a nice soft voice and some sparkle. Her acting seemed somewhat forced at times. Tim chewed a bit on his dialogue sometimes and went too far on the acting, but he was all emotion and THAT I liked. The rest of the characters were played very mechanically and without interest and that\ufffds a shame, cause St John and Helen ,e.g., are great characters."}, {"response": 2, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (13:38)", "body": "I have always had a fondness for this version of Jane Eyre, (IMO)definitely superior to the Orson Welles movie and the recent William Hurt film. Much more faithful to the book. I can't wait to see the Ciarian Hinds version! Zelah Clarke was entrancing as Jane, she looked/sounded the way I had always imagined. And as for Tim Dalton-he was a great, dark, brooding Rochester, maybe not the definitive one(can't wait to see CH), but a compelling one! The scene I remmember most vividly is when Bertha catches the bed on fire and Jane saves Rochester. Tim Dalton/Rochester looked like he wasn't going to let her go! Also, the scene(just after the secret is revealed) when Jane comes out of her room and falls into Rochester's arms. He was waiting for her to come out, wanted her \"tears on his breast...\""}, {"response": 3, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (13:42)", "body": "I remember seeing this adaptation at least 8 years ago. I must say I still like it as well. It could have been a pre-obsessionn to my P&P2 obsession, if I'd had a VCR at the time to tape it. I liked both main characters. Timothy Dalton at times seemed cruel and heartless, but that was really how Rochester was written, playing games with the people he loved. He has a certain quality about him, one that would make many women fall in love I think. I especially liked the scene garden at night where they end up confessing their love. He looks truly like a man in love, wishing to express himself. They could have played up the repartee between them, as there were only a couple of scenes where ou could tell they were becoming friends."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (13:49)", "body": "I also liked Zelah Clarke. She really showed the understated qualities of Jane. She is pretty, but in an understated way. She is so tiny too. I confess I still cried when she hears him calling her name, then goes to fin blind and crippled. Their reconcilliation had me in tears again. His make-up when he was scarred left a lot to be desired (you could still see the eye he lost moving under the partial make-up. But that was probably the quality of the time when it was made). Overall, I would give it two thumbs up. And TD has some very CF qualities. I can't wait for the CH Jane Eyre. I just watched Emma3 yesterday, and rewound to the commercial for JE, just so I could see CH."}, {"response": 5, "author": "brad", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (14:55)", "body": "I also have enjoyed this version for many years. Like Andrea one of my favorite scenes is in the garden when they confess their love. Timothy Dalton Does overact on occasion. I squirm during the scene when Jane tells him she is leaving.The whole production, though is very nice and I think the best Jane Eyre available. What is a virtual viewing? I can't find an expanation anywhere."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "I always like William Hurt since the Big Chill and do like his version of JE. TD version wasn't as good as Orson Welles. For me it is a toss-up between Welles and Hurt.I enjoyed these much more,it must be the way they were filmed and directed that really draws you in.TD version didn't do that for me."}, {"response": 7, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "What is a virtual viewing? I can't find an expanation anywhere Virtual Viewing is what we're doing here. We view a video virtually together and then discuss it."}, {"response": 8, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:18)", "body": "Jane Eyre is a story which requires more than two hours to be told in anything close to it's original form. The problem with both the Orson Welles version and the more recent Zeffirelli film is that the length necessitates cutting and collapsing large parts of the story. This has always detracted from these films for me. The version being discussed here is long enough to encompass most of the story, including the sojourne with the Rivers which is given short shrift in the other versions. I think it ma es it a much more interesting story and gives an added piquancy to the eventual reunion. As has been mentioned, there is some tendancy to chew the scenery, but it is not a grave fault. The characters of Jane and Rochester and of St. John Rivers and his sisters are well defined and seem quite faithful. Of all the adaptations available, this is my favorite because it is the most faithful to the story and to the characters. I have a favorable recollection of another with George C. Scott and Suzannah York which, I think, also had this in its favor. It is, however, not generally available and it has been a very long time since I have seen it."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Dina", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:23)", "body": "I believe virtual view is when we all watch it together and then disciss it here. I don't need to watch it, I have it memorized. I disagree with Andrea in regards to their repartee (note: the scene where she asks for time off and he gives her part of her salary and when he plays the gypsy). I think they handeled the intitial \"need to be gregarous\" scene well. She is the right combination of shy, intelligent and assertive. I love the scene in the bedroom where he doesn't want her to go. She is rightfully afraid (due to inexperience and laws of propriety), but he confesses an awful lot there. I sometimes find myself talking to the sc een as if I were Jane and I say more agressive things to him, but that just shows I have watched it too much - I cannot, will not change the novel. I had wished that when Jane fell in love she would turn a little pretty. I liked that Zelah was tiny and full of spark and spirit, but I wanted her hair loose of something. I didn't care that Timothy overacted -- I chock it up to passion; which is what made this so wonderful to me. When he says \"what will I do when you are gone\", it kills me. Once of my favor te phrases in all of literature is Jane's speech in the garden. Would it be that we could all think of such wonderful and meaningful phrases at crucial points in our lives: Do you think, because I am poor, obscure, plain, and little, I am souless and heartless? You think wrong! - I have as much soul as you - and full as much heart! And if God had gifted me (\"blessed me\" in the movie) with some beauty , and much wealth, I should have made it as hard for you to leave me, as it is now for me to leave you.....it is my spirit that addresses your spirit; just as if both had passed through the grave, and we stood at God's feet, equal - as we are! To wax that poetically off the cuff: sigh. I miss some of the engagement stuff from the novel. I feel like it shows his desire for Jane and her being in love (and frightened by what's in that room). I am very interested in seeing CH as Rochester as I loved him as Wentworth. Talk about a tease; we have to wait until September. I did not care for the other versions of JE as I felt like I was watching the Cliff Notes. I am hoping the A&E one is long like this one. I am still waiting for my > Edward."}, {"response": 10, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:38)", "body": "I borrowed this out about two years ago and haven't seen it since, so this might be a bit vague. I really liked it and watched it several times - espeicially the part where she's leaving (sob). I though TD was great in what must be a really difficult part. Rochester is a character that I find really hard to believe in - he's so horrible to Jane almost up until the moment he says he loves her - how could you do that to someone you love? To try and act, believably, as a boor one minute and a romantic h ro the next must be really difficult. TD ran rings around William Hurt who was just completely wrong. And it does need the extra time to make the stuff with the Rivers make sense. Even in this version it was significantly truncated from the book. St John is such a slimy character - those poor Indians. I did think the ending was a bit abrupt. And the makeup for TD was dismal. Looking forward to the next one."}, {"response": 11, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:40)", "body": "I have got no idea why all my text is in italics. What did I do?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (18:41)", "body": "Please ignore 11. Italics have gone."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Sun, Mar  9, 1997 (19:15)", "body": "Dina, I just wish there were more of those scenes, so you could really see the relationship being built. Do you think, because I am poor, obscure, plain, and little, I am souless and heartless? You think wrong! - I have as much soul as you - and full as much heart! And if God had gifted me (\"blessed me\" in the movie) with some beauty , and much wealth, I should have made it as hard for you to leave me, as it is now for me to leave you.....it is my spirit that addresses your spirit; just as if both had passed through the grave, and we stood at God's feet, equal - as we are! This quote had me in tears (OK, I get emotional). It shows how much she feels, and how much she feels she's been oppressed."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (00:21)", "body": "I had not seen this version in 8-10 years, before I ever read Mansfield Park, I think. But the way Jane is played in this adaptation makes me think of Fanny Price -- the not quite a member of the family part, the shyness, fringes of gentility class position. But Jane has more fire, doesn't she? Fanny is kind of a poor man's Jane."}, {"response": 15, "author": "kate", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (01:04)", "body": "Gosh Amy, you're playing with fire. The avenging HC may not like that suggestion ;-)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (07:58)", "body": "Kate, somehow, I posted my response to his in Matters of the Heart: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 214 of 221 [austen]: Matters of the heart: Why we read P&P Response 42 of 44: Amy (Amy) * Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (05:48) * 2 lines I don't know, Kate. Let's see. He likes Miss Eyre a lot too."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (08:04)", "body": "I have been enjoying Jane Eyre since far before I had ever heard of Jane Austen. Although their styles are very different, I love them both. Check out the following link to HC's Jane Austen page for Charlotte Bronte's unflattering view of Austen, however: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janeart.html#charlottebronte My first exposure to an adaptation of JE was the George C. Scott version in the early 70's, and I still really like his best, although I may have romanticized it somewhat over the years. I thought both Sian Pattenden, the young Jane, and Zelah Clarke, the more mature version, did a good job in this adaptation. I have always been drawn to Jane's spunk, and the fact that she is calm and quiescent until unjustly accused or asked to do something she knows is wrong. Then WATCH OUT! As Rochester puts it, Never has anyone been so frail and yet so indomitable! As the young Jane, I have always loved her comment to Mr. Brocklehurst about not going to hell: \"I must keep in good health and not die!\" No one else has mentioned this, so I'll take the plunge: although I really like TD's performance here (he has the speech and mannerisms down well), the lines dealing with his looks fall flat because he is so good-looking. When he says, You examine me, Miss Eyre. Do you find me handsome? and she answers, No, sir. , it does give one pause. In a later scene, he is saying that he wishes his own \"externals\" more closely matched those of Blanche's, and Jane says it would take magic. At the end when she finds him at Ferndean, he asks if he is hideous, and she says, Yes, sir. You always were, sir. And then he compares himself unfavorably to St. John as ...a black Vulcan. All very disconcerting when you're looking at a very handsome man as these words are spoken! However, he does get Rochester down, IMO. I have always really liked the scene where she must go to her aunt, and he gives her some of her wages: You owe me five, sir. Come back for that, then! and then she says she will advertise for a position, and he says, You shall walk up the pyramids of Egypt! I also love when she comes back, and says to him in her honest way, I am strangely glad to be back again. Wherever you are is my home, my only home. The look on his face is priceless. Rochester does play games with Jane and almost torments her. I think he knows how honest she is, and that she will tell only the truth, so he wants her to confess her feelings before he has to expose his own. In the garden, however, he pushes her to the limit. Her anguish upon finding she may have to take a position in Ireland rends my heart: It is so far away -- from England, from Thornfield -- and from you, sir! ... I see the necessity of departure and it is like looking on the necessity of deat ! I will not quote the rest, as others have already done so, but this is a very powerful scene, played well here. I thought the other characters were well-cast, and I got a kick out of Blanche. Her You should hear Mama on the subject of governesses. reminded me of I am a scourge on puppies. That same air of superiority and intolerance. I thought St. John was as stiff and righteous as I would expect him to be, but the sisters were not quite as I pictured them -- not sure why. I like the fact that this version gets this part of the story in. I have often wondered on the morality of Rochester. What he is doing is very wrong, of course, and disrespectful of Jane in the extreme, but he truly is between a rock and a hard place. I don't believe a person can escape responsibility for their life, but my heart goes out to a man duped into a marriage with a woman who can never be his wife. To have that betrayal come, in part, from his own family would make it even harder to bear. And then, finally, to ...find the goodness you have sought for 20 years. and be unable to grasp that happiness must be cruel indeed. I'd have to say I like this adaptation the best of those available, but for 100% satisfaction, I'll go back to my book!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (08:07)", "body": "I have been enjoying Jane Eyre since far before I had ever heard of Jane Austen. Although their styles are very different, I love them both. Check out the following link to HC's Jane Austen page for Charlotte Bronte's unflattering view of Austen, however: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janeart.html#charlottebronte My first exposure to an adaptation of JE was the George C. Scott version in the early 70's, and I still really like his best, although I may have romanticized it somewhat over the years. I thought both Sian Pattenden, the young Jane, and Zelah Clarke, the more mature version, did a good job in this adaptation. I have always been drawn to Jane's spunk, and the fact that she is calm and quiescent until unjustly accused or asked to do something she knows is wrong. Then WATCH OUT! As Rochester puts it, Never has anyone been so frail and yet so indomitable! As the young Jane, I have always loved her comment to Mr. Brocklehurst about not going to hell: \"I must keep in good health and not die!\" No one else has mentioned this, so I'll take the plunge: although I really like TD's performance here (he has the speech and mannerisms down well), the lines dealing with his looks fall flat because he is so good-looking. When he says, You examine me, Miss Eyre. Do you find me handsome? and she answers, No, sir. , it does give one pause. In a later scene, he is saying that he wishes his own \"externals\" more closely matched those of Blanche's, and Jane says it would take magic. At the end when she finds him at Ferndean, he asks if he is hideous, and she says, Yes, sir. You always were, sir. And then he compares himself unfavorably to St. John as ...a black Vulcan. All very disconcerting when you're looking at a very handsome man as these words are spoken! However, he does get Rochester down, IMO. I have always really liked the scene where she must go to her aunt, and he gives her some of her wages: You owe me five, sir. Come back for that, then! and then she says she will advertise for a position, and he says, You shall walk up the pyramids of Egypt! I also love when she comes back, and says to him in her honest way, I am strangely glad to be back again. Wherever you are is my home, my only home. The look on his face is priceless. Rochester does play games with Jane and almost torments her. I think he knows how honest she is, and that she will tell only the truth, so he wants her to confess her feelings before he has to expose his own. In the garden, however, he pushes her to the limit. Her anguish upon finding she may have to take a position in Ireland rends my heart: It is so far away -- from England, from Thornfield -- and from you, sir! ... I see the necessity of departure and it is like looking on the necessity of deat ! I will not quote the rest, as others have already done so, but this is a very powerful scene, played well here. I thought the other characters were well-cast, and I got a kick out of Blanche. Her You should hear Mama on the subject of governesses. reminded me of I am a scourge on puppies. That same air of superiority and intolerance. I thought St. John was as stiff and righteous as I would expect him to be, but the sisters were not quite as I pictured them -- not sure why. I like the fact that this version gets this part of the story in. I have often wondered on the morality of Rochester. What he is doing is very wrong, of course, and disrespectful of Jane in the extreme, but he truly is between a rock and a hard place. I don't believe a person can escape responsibility for their life, but my heart goes out to a man duped into a marriage with a woman who can never be his wife. To have that betrayal come, in part, from his own family would make it even harder to bear. And then, finally, to ...find the goodness you have sought for 20 years. and be unable to grasp that happiness must be cruel indeed. I'd have to say I like this adaptation the best of those available, but for 100% satisfaction, I'll go back to my book!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "Susan, I mentally shake hands with you for that response. BTW, he does tell her that he was a coward for not appealing to her the proper way , though when he asked her to away to _____ (I am drawing a blank here). She was offended. He was pretty clueless there in regards to her morals, maybe he was still deceiving himself. He mentions the hitch in Jane's character . I think the reason he plays these games is because he is passionate. The only reason he gives for the whole Blanche business was he wanted to arrouse her jelousy . Which was a burning shame . He could have wooed another way, but it wouldn't have been as much fun for us!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (10:26)", "body": "Rochester's morality, now there is a topic. It is hard to be kind to him, thinking with 1990's minds, on his behavior towards Jane. Most women these days wouldn't put up with the kind of treatment he gave out, although I am sure we would find parallels in todays society that are just as dishonest and cruel. Was he a man of desperation? I think so. Desperately in love with his governess, who is mentally his equal, and desperate to hide his hideous past. Is it only natural he would try to give in to his desperation for Jane, a chance at happiness? Human nature, I think goes towards happiness. He is constrained by the laws of society to remain married to his insane wife, a predicament which would mean he would never truly be happy. So he tries to sneak in another marriage, which would have appeared legal. He did promise to tell Jane his secrets after they had been married \"a year and a day\". I think trust would be a big issue. After all, everything important Jane knew about him turned out to be a lie. It was passion that brought her back. I don't know many people who would go through the shame of what she endured to go back to the cause of the shame."}, {"response": 21, "author": "kate", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (11:48)", "body": "One of my favourite lines is something like (out of my memory) \" I have been with my aunt, who is dead\" \" a very Janeian reply\""}, {"response": 22, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (11:56)", "body": "He did promise to tell Jane his secrets after they had been married \"a year and a day\". Don't you think that would be a huge red flag? Someone as smart as Jane should have picked up on that. I watched this a month ago after almost a year of not seeing it. I seriously have seen it enough to talk along with them (I've owned the video since '89), but what I picked up on this time was the love. So many lines I won't put them here (Susan already put a few in). But that whole scene where she needs water and in the library and then when she leaves St.John and when she goes to him \"she's all here, her heart too\" His misery so bad that he calls out for her (I can't believe Bronte didn't ave her cut him off and tell him what she heard) ouch! I am so glad there is a place I can place all my sappy-ness on the line and not be judged badly for it. Can you be a feminist and a hopless romantic at the same time?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "kate", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (12:02)", "body": "Can you be a feminist and a hopless romantic at the same time? Absolutely. Maybe we should have a thread on this?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (12:23)", "body": "Susan, thank you for your wonderful response. It mirrors much of my own. And now, a confession; this version of Jane Eyre was my first addiction. I had it bad; multiple viewings, sneaking in at all hours of the night to catch a few favored, savored scenes (the garden one is best); coercing others to view and become addicted with me, etc. You all obviously know the symptoms. How I kicked the habit I cannot say, but I was clean for years before P&P2! I haven't watched it again for this discussion; I'm afraid of an overdose, or one of those horrible reactions from two non-compatable drugs being taken at the same time."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (13:13)", "body": "afraid of an overdose, or one of those horrible reactions from two non-compatable drugs being taken at the same time. LOL Mari...Your comments and all the others have me tearing my hair and .......my hands in despair.I have tried to get my hands on this version, but am beginning to doubt it's being available in Sweden. I would like to see it, being an old admirer of the novel and having seen Welles and Hurt. The former very melodramatic from what i recall( though I've always been fascinated by Ors n) and Hurt not quite answering my picture of Rochester, though that Jane, was rather good."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (16:39)", "body": "I agree with all the above posts re: this version of JE. I finished watching it again last night and really like it. I've always liked Orson Welles as Rochester, but the movie cut out the whole St. John bit so lacked a lot of the book. I might have seen the George C. Scott version - seem to remember something vaguely, but can't really remember anything about it. I like this version - Zelah Clarke makes a very good Jane, and Dalton is good, although, as someone has mentioned, too handsome and too thin. One other unavoidable fault is that his mouth seems to fall naturally into a half smile, even when he isn't smiling, which makes some of the words and looks really incompatible. I thought St. John good--hard, slimy, greedy, and generally a nasty piece of work. I've always considered JE to be a \"feminist\" book--Jane sticks to her guns to maintain what is right even though another path might have been the easier one. She won't give in to Rochester and go away with him, nor will she marry St. John without love. The more I think about it the better I like this Dalton version - they included all the necessary points of the book!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Luba", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "Most of what\ufffds been said mirrored my feelings exactly, so I won`t repeat much of it again, but I wondered if anyone felt anything the day after Rochester`s proposal, when, in the morning, Jane jumps happily into his arms and he holds her so closely. I think then I forgave him for all his strange manipulations of Jane\ufffds feelings. It`s hard to stay angry. Tim Dalton plays it so well. It breaks my heart to see her leave, after all they have been through, but I understand her. I also liked a scene when they kiss and Jane`s hair is covering her face, making them both laugh. It`s so joyous...But there`s always this growing tension in the air, you know that that happiness won\ufffdt last long. It\ufffds quite heart-breaking. I was a bit tough on Zelah Clarke earlier. I remember the first time I saw this version, I loved her. The next few times made me a little less enthusiastic about her acting. I guess I grew more demanding... I love Dalton everytime Tim is actually very Colin Firtiish, like someone said. :-) I don`t know if I`ll get to see Ciaran Hinds, but I get the feeling that he will be the definite Rochester, in all the nuances and depth of the character."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (17:39)", "body": "Poor Ciaran. He is going to have a lot of expectations to live up to. Anybody know when the new version begins in England? I thought it was any day now."}, {"response": 29, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (18:03)", "body": "Luisa-I loved that scene when she runs into his arms. I agree-you do forgive him for playing with her feelings. He is so tender, ardent. I also liked the way he carried her downstairs, after the wedding debacle. And-yes Poor Ciarian. But, he is a wonderful actor. The more I see his Captain Wentworth, the more I am impressed. I am really looking forward to this new JE. From the promo, it seems to be heavy on passion. On a related note, I am just curious how many people have also seen Timothy Dalton in Wuthering Heights. To my knowledge, he's the only actor to have played both Rochester and Heathcliff. IMO, the 1970 Wuthering Heights is nowhere near as \"pretty\" as the Olivier/Oberon version, or even faithful to the book, but again(just as in JE) Timothy Dalton's performance stays with you. Even with the bad haircut, he captures the wild, untamed, dark, passionate gypsy spirit of Heathcliff. I remember most particularl the scene when Cathy returns a lady and he smears her face with dirt. This is soon followed by a passionate scene in the garden. I thought he was brilliant during Cathy's death scene too. Too bad the actress playing Cathy wasn't up to the challenge."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "I think part of our addiction to things like this version of Jane Eyre and P&P2 is that we are constantly exposing ourselves to something of the highest quality. Much better than Baywatch or the like."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (19:28)", "body": "] Gosh Amy, you're playing with fire. The avenging HC may not like that suggestion ;-)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (19:34)", "body": "I found a coincidental thing in checking out the credits for the various JE adaptations. Jack Pulman ('70 Scott version) wrote a screenplay called \"The Best of Enemies in 1961. Hugh Whitemore ('96 Hurt version) wrote one called \"The Best of Friends\" in 1994."}, {"response": 33, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Amy -- love the graphic, except that the expression is a little, um, fierce.... Yes Fanny Price and Jane Eyre have some things in common, but it's true that Jane Eyre has a little more fire and spirit than Fanny -- I don't mind anybody pointing it out (unless they mean to imply by it that Fanny is somehow less worthy...)"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (22:52)", "body": "Okay, I fixed him up a little. A little more determination and less snarl."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "Nice belly roll just before bed."}, {"response": 36, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (23:30)", "body": "Amy, he does look rather Grinch-y"}, {"response": 37, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (23:31)", "body": ""}, {"response": 38, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (07:12)", "body": "The Ciaran Hinds and Samantha Morton version of \" Jane Eyre \" was shown over here on Sunday. When I get a little free time, I'll post a review ..."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (07:28)", "body": "How long, Bernie? Please don't say 2 hours."}, {"response": 40, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (10:25)", "body": "Well I have had some major computer problems so I was unable to post yesterday. I did not get to see Jane Eyre over the weekend. But I loved it so much that I remember all of it. My favorite scene had to be when Jane finds out about Bertha and she is in her room getting ready to leavy and she walks out of the room and oops she falls right into Rochester's arms. That was taken right from the book and I totally loved it in there too. I thought T. Dalton's portrayal was right on the mark. I did just rec ntly re-see the W. Hurt version and he did nothing for me. Even the girl who played Jane was horrible. Also, in the book one of the most exciting scenes was the one when the old gypsy comes to the house. I was so happy they included it in the TD version, but it was left out of the WH version. I thought it was very important to the whole relationship of JE and ER. I could go on and on but won't."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (11:11)", "body": "one of the most exciting scenes was the one when the old gypsy comes to the house. I was so happy they included it in the TD version Laura, ITA. I have always loved this scene, too."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (12:45)", "body": "LauraMM - Please, please, do go on and on, for what do we live, but to make analysis for our neighbours, and editorialize to them in our turn?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "jajones", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (16:39)", "body": "I'm new to this so bear with me. I have not read every response so I may have missed something -- but I have seen no mention of a version of Jane Eyre that stars Michael Jayston as Rochester and Sinead Cusack as Jane. I have this version on tape so presumably I taped it off the TV some years ago and presumably it is a BBC version. It is one of my personal favorites. Has this one been forgotten?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (17:19)", "body": "I absolutely love this version! I first saw it on A7E several years ago. I purchased the video last summer and was pleased to find scenes missing from the A&E version. I have too many favorite scenes to mention all of them, but I love it after the fire when Rochester will not let Jane go. He seems to pull her toward him everytime he tells her she can go. I have watched my tape over and over.I did not know people got addicted to things like this until I found the P&P board. It is nice to know I am in suc good company. I think Timothy Dalton would have made a fine Darcy. However, Linda sees him more as Mr. Knightly. I just like to see him anytime I can. Has anyone seen him in The King's Mistress(Whore)? He wore quite a few wigs in that one."}, {"response": 45, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (17:21)", "body": "Jacque, I have never heard of the version you mentioned. I would love to see it. I have seen the Orson Welles and William Hurt versions, but not the George C. Scott one."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (11:13)", "body": "Never heard of Jayston/Cusack. Was it good? Was it only 2 hours? Watching Cliff notes again."}, {"response": 47, "author": "jajones", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (12:16)", "body": "Since no one seems to have heard of the Jayston/Cusack version, I am beginning to wonder if I dreamed it. (It does not appear in the movie database either). I will try to dig it out of the \"archives\" in the next couple of days and see if I can get more info from the credits. I don't remember how long it was -- will check that too. I am certain that I taped it from television -- it was not a \"bought\" video."}, {"response": 48, "author": "jajones", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (12:18)", "body": "Since no one seems to have heard of the Jayston/Cusack version, I am beginning to wonder if I dreamed it. (It does not appear in the movie database either). I will try to dig it out of the \"archives\" in the next couple of days and see if I can get more info from the credits. I don't remember how long it was -- will check that too. I am certain that I taped it from television -- it was not a \"bought\" video."}, {"response": 49, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "Picture time :"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (13:30)", "body": "I have to agree with a number of people, its was hard to imagine TD as unattractive, which is why I liked George C Scott. It has been ages, but with this Regency fever, it may be rereleased. I thought TD made much better James Bond than, oh shoot, whathisname? Jane Eyre was my first \"Romantic\" movie/novel in 8th grade maybe. I always skip over the Mrs Reed and Lowood parts, they made me angry and so sad."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "I still skip them. Nice photo Johanne. Bernie!! Where's the review!?!?!?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (14:18)", "body": "Jacques, your version could lost or not on tape. We've heard of a mystery P&P, too from the 60s that we think might even have been a live broadcast."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:10)", "body": "I only saw two versions of JE: Orson Welles and TD one. TD is by far my favorite. I actually saw the TD version in Russia, in Russian translation (it did not lose anything) I remember I was in second grade, and they were showing it on TV, one time in the morning, and one in the evening. I got to see it both times, since our teacher, who was I think a big fan, turned on the TV, if we finished the work on time, which we all did. Then I'd get home, and bliss! I'd watch it again. I remember ome parents thinki g it is not completely appropriate, with all the passion later :-) (it was 1986). I love the book and probably reread it 50 times, and the TD version for me reflect it completely (I read the book before seeing JE). I like the OW version, but Joan Fontaine and Orson Welles are too goodlooking, besides I miss all the wonderful repartee and dialog (or maybe I think too much of TD version). My absolutely favorite scene would have to be a toss-up between after the fire scene, and the scene where Jane leaves Rochester-it's one of the most emotional scenes I have ever seen! When I was younger, I thought she should have stayed, but now I think she did the right thing (besides, there wouldn't be a novel f she didn't) I like the actress who plays Mrs Reed. She apears so hard and stony you want to hit her. And Mr Brocklhurst's face reminds me of witch-trials. And I feel sorry for anyone getting into permanent company with that atctor's St. John. I think Zelah Clark is the perfect Jane \"plain and little\" but you could see why she would attract Rochester. And Dalton is the definite Rochester for me. (Almost tempts me to become a governess!) But I am looking forward to the new version, even though I do't think it will replace the TD version in my heart."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:35)", "body": "Johanne - *sigh* Anne - whathisname = Roger Moore"}, {"response": 55, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (15:49)", "body": "or whatshisname could be Pierce Brosnan..."}, {"response": 56, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (17:06)", "body": "Great pic-Johanne! Thanks."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (17:30)", "body": "Brosnan, Pierce Brosnan Thanks Kate"}, {"response": 58, "author": "annat", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (14:43)", "body": "I'm new here, and will shortly introduce myself in topic for newcomers. meanwhile I can't wait to join you. About the comparison betweem JE and Fanny Price, I think their main similarity is their INTEGRITY - both hold on to their principles, no matter how humble their position in the world is. To Dina (#22), the reason why Jane didn't tell Rochester that she heard him calling her name is stated in the book: She didnt want to burden him, in his fragile state of mind, with unnatural or ESP experiences (I'm paraphrasing). I have seen only the Hart movie and the Dalton series. I agree that it's unfair to compare a 90 min picture with a 4 hr series, of course the first is at a disadvantage. But, there were few scenes in which the movie was more faithful to the book. The first encounter, when he falls of his horse, in the TD version she stood in the way and startled the horse and really seemed to cause the falldown, as he later jestingly accused her. And the scene was shorter. Whereas in the movie and in the book she sits on bench, watches him pass her and then he slides on ice and falls. Than he asks her to bring the horse to him, she fails and there's the sentence on Muhammed coming to the mountain or vice versa, and then she aids him mount his horse. I like William Hart, I think he showed both his cynnicism and suffering, and wans't so bad. Tim was good also, but sometimes I felt he talked too much, that being so faithful to the book wasnt always for the better. I agree that Clark is tiny, but she is also very feminine, whereas Ginsberg is more boyish, therefore more adapte to the description of Jane as almost a child. I thought her neck would break whenever she looked up at him."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Very entertaining analysis, An(n)at(?). I agree with your comparison of Jane and Fanny. Welcome!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "I beg your pardon, Annat, but are you from Israel? Your name sounds Hebrew, I am israelian, as you can tell by my weird name, and so is Adi. Welcome!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "annat", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (12:23)", "body": "Thanks Susan and Ayelet. My name is Anat, and the reason its spelled with two n's is that I did something wrong when logging in the first time, and Anat wouldn't get through but was taken or occupied, so I had to cheat the computer. Ayelet, I meant to ask you the same question, only I didn't know whether you live in Israel or are from Israeli descent. I live in Yehud and work at the Open University. Where are you from? I meant to enter topic 175 for newcomers and make a proper intro, but couldn't do it. 'm very glad I found the Austen conference and its interesting participants. Its the first time I participate in any chat. Ayelet, do you chat live too? There is the time difference of course. See you all later."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (12:32)", "body": "I am glad you could get in here somewhere, Anat. After I got your mail, I archived the introductions topic and made a new, shorter one. That could solved your problem with the reponse window not coming up. Ayelet is kind of our pet. I've advised her not to go into chat during US evening hours, but hope I have not scared her off from it altogehter. The hours are hard to get used to at first, with our international crowd, but I've finally internalized the times of day for my friends in Australia. What do you do at the Open University?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Anat", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (02:27)", "body": "Hi Amy, at the OU I am a course editor. This requires some explanation. In the OU students learn by correspondence, this is called distance education, They don't go to lectures but receive the course material at home. So every course has to be prepared - either written, or combined of articles published in an anthology, And figures, maps, pictures, questions and answers are combined in the material, so its pleasant and self instructive. As an editor I receive the manuscript prepared by experts in the sub ect matter, and try to study it as a student. I do deductive, linguistic, stylistic and any other kind of editting I think is needed. Sometimes I rewrite, omit or add material, it depends on my knowledge in the area. I've been doing it for twnety years and its a priviledge to get education on all kinds of subjects and be paid forit! Istarted with disciplines close to what I studied at the university - psychology & education, but moved on to biology, history, communication, political science and other areas. Since what I studied is no longer updated, and I learned other topics unofficially during the years, it can be done. I couldn't edit in mathematics or chemistry, but anything I can comprehend, I can work on. Sometimes its even better not to know too much, then I can point to missing information. There are about twenty editors at t e OU, We are also responsible for publishing - we work with graphic artists, proofreaders etc, - its a teamwork. I never edited anything in literature, since most editors come from the area of literature and language, there a more comptent people than me in that area. I think, Amy, you didnt bargain for such a long answer - I'm such a blabberer."}, {"response": 64, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (07:24)", "body": "Amy: No, you haven't, but I'm so confused with the time zones that I gave it up, I'll try to come to chat when I'll figure out the excat difference though. Anat: I live in Be'er Ya'akov, a SMALL town near Rehovot, Tel-Aviv, Nes Ziona and Rishon-Le-Zion. If you wonder why Amy called me \"Pet\" I'll explain it: I'm 11 and 3/4 years old, I ahave watched P&P2 at least 40 times and I love it, I also try to read the book, in English, bits by bits, sometimes I can't understand a whole paragraph, but mostly it's OK, and I manage, the only other JA I read was NA, I was bored one holiday day and I found it's penguin edition on our JA bookshelf."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (09:37)", "body": "We'll try to find a time zone converter and a good schedule for you, Ayelet. Anat, your job sounds fascinating. Thank you for going into detail. I have a friend at Indiana University who works in publications for the School of Continuing Education and they have just started to move courses onto the web!"}, {"response": 66, "author": "jajones", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (20:06)", "body": "I have been away for several days and will be away for more -- but just to get back to you on the mysterious production of Jane Eyre that I have on tape. I was able to dig it out and read the credits but no time for more than that just now. The production was shown on Masterpiece Theatre and starred Michael Jayston and Sorcha Cusack. It was dramatized by Robin Chapman. It is approximately 3 1/2 hours long and it begins with Jane's departure from Lowood. It summarizes her life before that in a few sen ences. I do not know at this point who produced it, since I didn't always record the credits in an effort to save tape. Will try to find some more info. So --- has anyone else out there seen this version? How does Michael Jayston stack up?"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (23:43)", "body": "Jacque -- I've never even heard of this version. As time permits, please share details!"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (01:43)", "body": "Ladies and gentleman before I begin my review I must defend myself (think Darcy saying \"Forgive me, forgive me\" to Col. Fitzwilliam in P&P2). I enjoyed this adaptation though I have not read the book. Unfortunately I had a big chip on my shoulder regarding this film. After reading Persuasion, P&P and S&S, I read Bronte's criticism of JA; I never forgave the woman. CB should have been able to enjoy someone else's view of romance and passion. Thus when I was watching this I kept comparing these charact rs to JA characters and it just doesn't work. CB and JA are like apples and oranges. CB is like Marinanne Dashwood with ghosts and dreams. (Please forgive me CB fans I am not trying to offend.) Perhaps if I get around to reading the novel, things will become clearer but from what I remember of the little Bronte I did read, she and I didn't click. I'm glad Susan mentioned how ridiculous it was whenever someone referred to Mr. Rochester's looks; I kept thinking in what world would this man not be good looking. I can understand his love for Jane but the deception didn't sit well with me. People do so many bad things in the name of love. And then all the suffering. Isn't life difficult enough without having a tormented love relationship? It's almost as if love isn't love without suffering. On the positive sided, I really enjoyed Jane's character. I was so happy when she leaped on that brat of a cousin who hit her. She stuck with her principles and wouldn't marry someone she didn't love. Wasn't the character who played Mrs. Reed the same woman who played Mrs. Musgrove in Persuasion2?"}, {"response": 69, "author": "kate", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (07:45)", "body": "]love isn't love without suffering. At the point where Charlotte wrote this, that was pretty much her personal experience. Her mother and two of her sisters had died, and the man she had been in love with (the professor in Brussels) was married. So it's understandable that for her love is closely related to suffering."}, {"response": 70, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (22:38)", "body": "I must defend CB! CB wrote the way she thought to be right, with a lot of feelings, that's how life was for her, now try to imagine yourself in her place: You hear there's a very popular novelist, called JA, you read one or two of her books and discover, that there is no deep feelings in it (In CB's meaning), and everybody are polite and \"proper\" ladies and gentlemen, it seems wrong, totally wrong! Life isn't so, nobody can be nice and polite all the time, there are poor in this world, sisters here fight! So why does that JA have hide it? The world won't stop being so, and the books would only be drier, who can read a book where nobody in madly in love or d eply in depair? Nobody, it's not a book, it's a sermon! Shall I go on, or have you caught it?"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (23:52)", "body": "...from what I remember of the little Bronte I did read, she and I didn't click. I hope you try again, Karen -- I really love this book, and I love JA as well, even if they are not alike. Try to forgive CB and enjoy her very different style."}, {"response": 72, "author": "sandysearing", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (08:51)", "body": "Hi everbody - I'm new here, and so glad I found you. I'm absolutely, hopelessly addicted to JE and P&P2. I watch each at least once a week. I used to think I was beyond hope, but now having read all 71 messages am feeling much better about myself. So many of you said it so wonderfully that there's not much for me to add. TD is Rochester for me, but I'm also looking foward to the new version. One of my favorite scenes is one on the stairs, after Jane leaves the gathering. The way they look at each other, nd leave so much unsaid, gives great promise for what's to come."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "Glad you did find us, Sandy."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (00:03)", "body": "Kate and Susan thanks for the information on CB and the encouragement to try her again. Can't make any promises now with the current workload. Ayelet, I understand CB had an opinion which differed from JA but I still find her comments rude. Reading exposes us to the lives of other people and not everyone has the same life experiences as we do. Austen didn't show perfect families (the Elliots were quite a piece of work) and showed heartbreak (Marianne Dashwood). If you can't agree or don't click with omeone style of writing, don't read the author. I mean I could list reasons why I find fault with CB and then attack her personally and then pretend to justify it all in the name of my free speech and passion. However, I believe I would be being petty and insulting others here on this BB whom I respect. You can disagree and be polite."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (08:57)", "body": "Karen: You can disagree and be polite Hear, hear Karen! That's what I love about this place......and I might even try to reread CB as well; my first experiences were less than pleasant, but it may have been due to circumstances (a dunderhead of a prof) rather than content."}, {"response": 76, "author": "Dina", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (12:03)", "body": "I think your comment was insightful for someone who is 11 3/4 years old, Ayelet! Have you read some Bronte? I think I was just finishing up the Little House books when I was your age. I doubt you have them there, but maybe."}, {"response": 77, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "I am finding that getting to know an author first (some background on what their was like) will tell you what to expect from their novels."}, {"response": 78, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (04:46)", "body": "Dina, I read Jane Eyre (In Hebrew, though) and the first three Little House books. Karen, just one word before we close this disagreement: I understand how you feel about CB and JA, but think, each has her way of showing dislike to some kind of books, so it was CB's rude remarks, but it was just as well JA's NA, which was not much more forgiving. So you see, CB burns with hate to JA, that's her way, to burn from every feeling, JA's way is more delicate and agreeable, to write a satir."}, {"response": 79, "author": "Beaver", "date": "Wed, May 21, 1997 (15:56)", "body": "I should like to return to the topic of Mr. Rochester's morality in deceiving Jane Eyre and I wish to expand it. There are three primary males in Jane Eyre's life - perhaps more in the story, but I confess I have only seen the recent (dreadful) version and the BBC/Timothy Dalton version. These are Brocklehurst, St. John, and Mr. Rochester. Only the latter is shown to us in a favorable light. While his deception is still implicitly condemned, it is condemned compassionately, lovingly. Wrong it is, and it carries with it pain and suffering and Jane cannot participate in it. Her integrity will not permit it. Indeed, it is in his sinful deception of her that Jane begins to realize the depths of her love for him. In open confrontation of one's own failures, one can begin to be truly trusted. On the other hand, it is the very righteousness of St. John and Brocklehurst which are their primary faults. Brocklehurst's righteousness is shown to be hypocritical, based on an ability to display a presumed superiority to others. He finds it necessary always to point out other's failures as publicly as possible while denying he himself has any failures, both to the public and to himself. He may have begun believing it necessary if he were to properly represent a perfect God but has come to believe he is in fact as perfect as God. St. John's is a righteousness of mission, of purpose, but his mission is so all-consuming that it becomes synonymous with himself. And so his desire for the inheritance, then his desire for Jane later are not really a desire to give of himself - either to \"heathens\" or to Jane but a selfish insistence that all serve him and his \"God-ordained\" purpose. Nothing chilled me more in the movie than when he tells Jane that turning down his proposal is not merely a rejection of him, but a rejection of God. T e worst tyrants are those who believe firmly that God agrees with them. Compared to such righteousness, Mr. Rochester's open unrighteousness is indeed welcome honesty. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 189, "subject": "Darcy in DC", "response_count": 38, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (09:25)", "body": "Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 56 of 70: Carolyn Esau (Carolyn) * Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (17:11) * 1 lines Over at Pemberley we have been talking about a possible \"Darcy in DC\" get together. Anyone interested can email me. Anytime this summer would be great for me. Please say when it is a good time to for you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 57 of 70: kathleen (elder) * Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (17:15) * 1 lines Count me in for DC. I live about 140 miles west (western Maryland panhandle). End of June or first few weeks in July; mid to late August; other weekends may be OK as well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 58 of 70: Carolyn Esau (Carolyn) * Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (17:19) * 1 lines August would be after your visit to England, would it not? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 59 of 70: kathleen (elder) * Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (17:47) * 4 lines August would be after your visit to England, would it not? Yes. The Austen course goes from July 27 through August 2. I plan a adding a couple of days before or after to stay in London (museums, theatre, whatever). But, I could do a weekend even after school starts in September. I have friends in DC who don't mind my dropping by from time to time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 60 of 70: Inko (Inko) * Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (19:48) * 3 lines Carolyn, count me in! I live 2 miles of good (crowded) road from D.C. August, however, is no good for me. I'll be gone from approximately July 18 till September 6, all in England except for last two weeks cruising in the Med. Can we make it late June? Or what about watching the fireworks in D.C. on July 4? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 61 of 70: Amy (Amy) * Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (19:50) * 1 lines If the Beach Boys will be there I might come. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 62 of 70: Inko (Inko) * Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (20:17) * 1 lines Sorry, Amy, the Beach Boys haven't been here since the Reagan days, when they booted them out in favor of (would you believe) Wayne Newton!!!! Ugh!! They said there was a need for \"family\" entertainment!! The crowds at the Washington Monument were considerably lighter that year! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 63 of 70: Inko (Inko) * Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (20:20) * 1 lines There's always a good concert on the Capitol lawn - lovely atmosphere - get there early and bring picnics, then the National Symphony from 8 p.m. usually finishing with the 1812 overture and Stars and Stripes. Much like the Boston Pops concerts! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 64 of 70: Kate (kate) * Mon, Mar 10, 1997 (21:00) * 1 lines If I'm on this coast, I'll be there. Earlier would be better than later, but I'm unpredictable, so don't take me into account in the calculations. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 65 of 70: Carolyn Esau (Carolyn) * Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (07:03) * 5 lines Would June 21st or June 28th be OK? Perhaps we could have tea at the Willard? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 66 of 70: Amy (Amy) * Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (07:09) * 1 lines Ooh. I love old hotels. So many ghosts. Is the Willard the one where Gen Grant registered and they tried to stick the scruffy old guy in the attic? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 67 of 70: kathleen (elder) * Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (13:09) * 1 lines June 28 would be better for me, but the 21st might also be OK. The Willard would be ever so very nice! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 68 of 70: Inko (Inko) * Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (16:41) * 1 lines Either June 21 or 28 are fine by me - and yes, the Willard is beautiful, especially since they've redone it. Do you want me to check whether they serve tea? I would think they do, but I'm not sure. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 69 of 70: Kali Pappas (Kali) * Tue, Mar 11, 1997 (18:29) * 1 lines I was about to say that the room in the photo looked a lot like the lobby of t"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (10:07)", "body": "Count me in girls.....Just let me know when....if you still are needing votes on when though....July or August...(June is still horseshow season)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "We are going to have a P&P L.A. confab -- both Anna and Joan will be in L.A. on 3/21 for separate conferences, so we're all going to meet!!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (11:11)", "body": "Would July 12(Sat) or 13(Sun) be OK for everyone?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (11:12)", "body": "Amy2 That sounds great--have fun!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (14:57)", "body": "Carolyn -- DC in mid July is fine by me (either the 12th or the 13th). June 21 is also OK."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (17:36)", "body": "Carolyn, either July 12/13, June 21/22 or June 28/29 - whatever you decide - are all fine by me. I posted to the Austen in Boston topic earlier -- I called the Willard and they do have afternoon teas on Saturdays and Sundays, so that's all right. I told them I needed the information for June - a bit early to make reservations!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "Straggling messages posted in the Austen in Boston topic: Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 71 of 73: Inko (Inko) * Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (16:17) * 1 lines Yes, the Willard does serve afternoon tea on Saturdays and Sundays, so that's fine. Either day is fine with me - heavens knows what will be on the calendar by then, but I never make plans that far in advance (except travel plans)so for the moment it's blank! Whatever suits everybody better! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 117 of 223 [austen]: Austen in Boston Response 73 of 73: LaDemoiselle (LaDemoiselle) * Wed, Mar 12, 1997 (17:17) * 1 lines Darcy in DC sounds lovely, Carolyn. Any day is fine."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (12:03)", "body": "OK, Sunday July 13 at 3pm at the Willard it is."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (18:16)", "body": "That's my dad's birthday...and Harrison Ford's, too!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (20:14)", "body": "Darcy and Wookie in D.C.??? July 13, at 3 p.m. is great - want me to make reservations nearer the time? Will just have to know approx. how many?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "maud", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "I only just discovered this topic (thought Boston was still being discussed). I'll be in Ireland for 3 weeks in June, so am delighted you now seem to settling on July. I could do any weekend *after* June 28. I can be at The Willard in about 65 minutes from my house in Baltimore County."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (09:38)", "body": "Carolyn......July 12 is great....count me in!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "]July 13, at 3 p.m. is great - want me to make reservations nearer the time? Will just have to know approx. how many? Inko, if it is not inconvenient, please make the reservation. Linda, it is on July 13, can you still make it? RSVP'd so Far: Myself, inko, Kathleen, LaDemoiselle, Maud and Linda. Any one else want to come?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:55)", "body": "July 12 is Ian's birthday."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (15:20)", "body": "We will have to sing happy birtday to Ian, Kali's dad and Harrison Ford."}, {"response": 17, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (15:38)", "body": "I am a very vague possibility at this point, so maybe don't count me, but keep me appraised of developments. ;-)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (08:50)", "body": "For Valerie and anyone else who might need it [img src=\" http://www.interconti.com/interconti/maps/waswil.gif\" ] and this is the Willard [img src=\" http://www.interconti.com/interconti/pics/waswila.jpg\" ] The Willard does have parking. However the best bet is to park at one of the metro stations and take the metro into the city. (This is what I always do!)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (08:54)", "body": "Let me try again. For Valerie and anyone else who might need it and this is the Willard"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (08:59)", "body": "RSVP Update: Myself, inko, Kathleen, LaDemoiselle, Maud, Linda and Valerie. Possibilities: Kate, Myretta, Arnessa, and some friends of Valerie (Keeping my fingers crossed that you can all make it)."}, {"response": 21, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (14:41)", "body": "Carolyn -- muchas dankes for coordinating this. I am looking forward to it."}, {"response": 22, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (11:20)", "body": "Wow! That's quite a list! I just had the privilege of meeting with Anna Price from Australia, who's in L.A. for a conference. We're going to take the Amy 2 Shuttle on Saturday to go meet Joan, also visiting my fair city. So we are staging a minip P&P convention in the City of Angels as well!!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (09:36)", "body": "I am going to be gone until April 2, so if you want to meet in DC and email to say so, do not think that I am ignoring you, I am just on vacation."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (09:39)", "body": "If anyone else can make it to DC, please just add your name in this topic. I am going on vacation until April 2 so I won't be able to respond to email."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (09:42)", "body": "I tried to stop post 23 but apparently was unsuccessful :-("}, {"response": 26, "author": "kjones", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (22:08)", "body": "If i'm not working the weekend of July 13, I'll do my best to be at the Willard for High Tea! I'm in Gettysburg, PA - so the trip is definately feasible. The Metro runs on Sundays, doesn't it?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (22:47)", "body": "I think it runs everyday, Kat!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (14:39)", "body": "Carolyn....the Willard looks beautiful...thanks so much for taking this on. I told my family we have a change in plans for our vacation this year....so we are going to make it a family trip....of course, they will find something else to do on July 13th!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (16:00)", "body": "There are lots and lots of museums for the family, Linda, and some take more than a day - especially Air and Space, American History, and the Holocaust. Should be plenty for the family to do!!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Sat, Mar 29, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "Great Inko! I am looking forward to meeting to y'all! We have been wanting to get to DC ever since we moved to Georgia! This is a great reason to finally go!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "ValGal17", "date": "Sun, Mar 30, 1997 (11:17)", "body": "Thanks so much Carolyn. I'll be able to make it. I am so excited. Happy Spring! I am looking to meeting you all."}, {"response": 32, "author": "LaDemoiselle", "date": "Tue, Apr 15, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "I live in DC and I have an idea where the Willard (near 14th St?)is, but what metro station is it near? I have no clue. 3pm, 13th of July, Sunday...right?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "LaDemoiselle", "date": "Tue, Apr 15, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "There is something I have to add in the form of an indiscreet question...How much will tea at the Willard cost? Just talking with my mother today about it, she told me that a cup of tea might cost an arm and a leg ;-) Seriously, if there is a threat that tea at the Willard will be very expensive, I may not...sorry to say this...be able to go. (Unfortunately being an unemployed artist still, mummy may not give me the tea money ;-("}, {"response": 34, "author": "christa", "date": "Tue, Apr 29, 1997 (22:03)", "body": "I am interested in high tea, so count me in. This is my first posting hope no one minds me coming along. I live in baltimore and dcnot to far. Please e-mail me with particulars. kiki@zeroup.com"}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 30, 1997 (17:12)", "body": "Welcome kiki!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (08:57)", "body": "I am interested in high tea, so count me in. This is my first posting hope no one minds me coming along. I live in baltimore and dcnot to far. Please e-mail me with particulars. kiki@zeroup.com Kiki, I have tried to email you at christa@roadkill.zero-up.com and at kiki@zeroup.com, but both messages came back as undeliverable :-( Please email me (cre8s@virginia.edu), to let me know if you have received this message. Now to the particulars: You are most welcome to our get together in DC. It will be at 3pm, July 13, at the Willard hotel. Tea cost $14.50 per person and parking at the Willard is available (but expensive $8 for 1-2 hours, $12 2-4 hours. Parking used to be free at the Metro stations on Sunday, but I don't know if it still is.). There is a subway stop at 14th and F streets, two blocks away from the Willard. Please email me, I really wish to hear from you! or visit me in the chat room this evening between 4:30 and 6:30. Here is the address: http://206.31.80.55/cgibin/pemberley/nph-chat.cgi"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, May  6, 1997 (15:43)", "body": "Kiki, You can also find out more about our get together at the following sites: The Republic of Pemberley: http://www2.shore.net/~mrobens/ Or Austen Meetings for the Republic http://www2.shore.net/~mrobens/pemb/admin/meetings/index.html"}, {"response": 38, "author": "christa", "date": "Thu, May 15, 1997 (18:41)", "body": "Thanks for all the info austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 19, "subject": "Topic 32 crashes my system!", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (10:25)", "body": "Ann, I am moving this to the HELP! topic, freezing this topic for a day or so, then it will be gone. Did your trouble happen after you tried to link to FOF then come back? If so it may be part of the no-cache thing. Amy"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (10:26)", "body": "Guess I won't freeze it, got a server error. Now I might as well repost both this messages to help!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (10:49)", "body": "I must be in the twilight zone this morning. I had just put a pot of coffee on and sat down to the computer and I saw words being typed in a response box in this item. I realized that it was Amy! And I am still watching her navigate around and make posts (I'm in another window). How is this happening? That' s because she left her NetMeeting on last night and we're still sharing applications. I'm seeing *every keystroke* she makes on her computer and seeing every word she types letter at a time. I tried to wrest the mouse from her to get her attention but she got freaked out. She didn't know what was happening. Amy are you seeing this? If you are it's your turn to type something now: This should be Amy Right now Amy is \"taking control\" This is me. This is very wild. I have a feeling I am possessed when he is in control , and that I am omnipotent when I am. Gotta get a faster modem though. No bout a doubt it There, Terry. Take it. This is Terry: Amy if you think you felt wild. How do you think I felt a little while ago when I walked into my office to get started and I saw Netscape open and a Mail window open and there were things being typed on the screen. I was seeing every letter you typed. Was I in the twilight zone, I wondered. Then I realized it was you and we were still connected via NetMeeting and I could see everything you were doing. I tried to wrestle the mouse away from you and that's when you started feeling possessed. You wee for a moment! OK your turn (we're gonna post this ok so folks will believe me): Yes. it is funny. I haven't laughed so loud , out loud, all my myself in many a day. If must have been even stranger for you. Too much fun you go Or you want to just go ahead and submit the missage now. Sheesh! This is Terry: I'm going to submit this then take your for a \"ride\" in Explorer. Are you ready? No, you submit it! AB: ok. but hold the tour bus one secdon . I have to get more coffee for this"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (10:55)", "body": "Amy went to get coffee and I'm going to get a cup too. Amy let me know when you get back. My coffee pot isn'f far away. By the way I don't think the help item crashed. I think it may have been your Explorer. But if it is our system, we can ask Dave about it in the yapp conference. Amy's reply in NetMeeting: I am back, still all astonishment. Tery, if you hear us use that word a lot it is becuase it is used by a character in P&P. Did you find the tape? Terry's reply: sorry didn't mean to grab the mouse away from you too soon. I very kindly person on this board is loaning me a copy of the tape! Are you ready to go on a web tour? Amy: up! Go."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (18:10)", "body": "By the way topic 32 crashes every time I try to enter it, no matter what I do."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (19:12)", "body": "Hmmm. Let take a look under the hood. Course, I never see a thing when I look there."}, {"response": 7, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (21:18)", "body": "I tried going in there to see if it would crash on me - I who am the one that anything that is going to crash will crash on - and nothing happened - it displayed quite normally."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (00:00)", "body": "Try adding a response there Amy. If nothing else works, you can edit it manually (carefully). austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 190, "subject": "Austen potpourri", "response_count": 42, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (11:49)", "body": "Amy suggested I put some of collected Austen referential items in a separate topic. So for completeness, I'll start by placing here, what I posted to the wrong topic. (\"Pardon the interference, it was kindly meant\"). Pride and Prejudice 'Marry well', is Bennet tenet: Bingley singly must remain Since classy Darcy (Lizzy-dizzy) thinks he's far too good for Jane. Rummy mummy, jaunty aunty, these would drag both gallants down - Plus the younger siblings' dribblings over officers in town. See the specious Wicham trick'em with his tales of birthright gloom, See how hideous Lydia's ruin looms before she gets her groom; Glassy Darcy saves the bacon, shaken out of former pride: Is he Lizzy's destined love, to shove her prejudice aside? Has she clout to flout that matron, patroness of priestly coz (He whose ludicrous proposing Rosings rules - like all he does)? Darcy oughter court her daughter, destined his through two decades ... 'Mulish, foolish girl, remember Pemberley's polluted shades!' Dare she share his great estate, or can't Aunt Catherine be defied? Yes! and ere the bells ring jingly, Bingley too shall claim his bride. by Mary Holtby"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (11:50)", "body": "And here's the one about Emma (more to appear later as I get the required typing energy...) Emma Miss Bates has a visitor: 'My dear Mrs Cole, how very kind - yes, quite well, I thank you - do pray take a seat. We have such news! Have you heard - No? Well, I think it is all a secret, so perhaps I should not say but no one had any idea - except Jane and Mr Churchill, of course, and all the time we thought he was only calling about my mother's spectacles. Dear Jane is much better already - we are so thankful. Do oblige us by taking some refreshment - one of Mr Knightley's baked apples - some cake? Miss Woodhouse called yesterd y and was so good as to taste a small slice and pronounce it delicious - such kindness. She is now out with Jane - she takes the news extremely well, considering - no sign of disappointment - Box Hill, yes, delightful - but I am afraid my silly chatter sometimes - however, Mr Churchill did seem so very attentive - but then we are all so fond of the excellent Miss Woodhouse - but to think all this time - one can hardly credit - it was poor Mrs Churchill dying, you know, that let it all out. We have surpris s indeed in Highbury, do we not, Mrs Cole? First, Mr Elton suddenly brings back a bride - charming - but some thought he showed a marked preference for Miss Smith, some thought for another - I never notice such things - and now on top of Jane being engaged to Mr Churhill we hear Miss Smith is to marry the good Mr Martin of Abbey Mill Farm - oh, must you be going? So sorry you will not take a baked apple, one of Mr Knightley's - he will be marrying next, I should not be surprised - so much talk of marrying going on - and there's our dear Miss Woodhouse - what could be more suitable?' by Joyce Johnson from: 'How to Become Ridiculously Well-Read in One Evening' compiled by E. O. Parrott Viking, Penguiun Books, 1985"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (12:48)", "body": "\"Quark! Quark! Beware the quantum duck!\" After reviewing my collection of fine one-liners that I have gleened from the Internet, I was struck with the applicability of so many of them to P&P. To wit, here is part one: Mrs Bennet doesn't really know the meaning of 'gentlemanly behavoir': \"Gentleman: Knows how to play the bagpipes, but doesn't.\" Neither does Lady C know what it is to be a true proficient: \"A virtuoso is a musician with real high morals.\" And Mrs Bennet knows how to Mr Collins overstaying his welcome: \"Hospitality: Making your guests feel at home, even though you wish they were.\" On the other hand, Charlotte benefits from Lizzy's friendship: \"Friends: People who know you well, but like you anyway.\" Groucho had the right take on Darcy's first attending the Meryton Assembly: \"I have had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.\" And after her first encounter with Darcy, Lizzy concurs with Shakespeare: \"I do desire we may be better strangers\" Although Jane is reputed to be more beautiful than Lizzy, I'd would rate her to possess at least 1,500 millihelens: \"Millihelen - the amount of beauty required to launch one ship\" As for the failure of the Bennet parents to wiggle out of the entail: \"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to conceive.\" One constantly wonders just what exactly did Mr B see in Mrs B: \"If you are horny, it's lust, but if your partner's horny, it's affection.\" Perhaps Mr B's feelings toward Mrs B can best be summed: \"I will always love the false image I had of you\" Mr Bennet secretly wishes: \"If only I could be respected without having to be respectable.\" Mr Bennet's attitude seems to be: \"I am not cynical, just experienced.\" In reflecting upon her father, Lizzy observes that: \"Perhaps your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.\" Mr Collins has never learned that: \"Anyone who makes an absolute statement is a fool.\" Mr Collins knows that his proposals will not fail begin acceptable: \"Confidence: The feeling you have before you understand the situation.\" It's not only that Mr Collins is dense: \"Some people would not recognize subtlety if it hit them on the head.\" Bingley envies Darcy's library: \"A Renaissance man diffuses to refine himself\" As for the verbal duelling between Darcy and Lizzy: \"I think sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.\" Just when it appears that Bingley will pop for Jane: \"Nothing recedes like success\" And although Bingley and Jane seem meant for each other: \"Predestination was doomed from the start.\" Miss Bingley has hopes for her brother: \"Absence makes the heart grow fonder... for someone else.\" Mr Hurst is countinually freely he is under the influence of: \"Heineken Uncertainty Principle: Never sure how many beers you had last night.\" - and he suffers from: \"Hangover: The wrath of grapes.\" - and he is in complete agreement with Dean Martin: \"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on.\""}, {"response": 4, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "And for better measure, here is part the twain: Poor Mr Collins can't seem to make up his mind about whom to marry: \"I used to think I was indecisive, but now I am not so sure.\" Mr Collins has such a way with subtle flattery: \"I often quote myself; it adds spice to my conversation.\" And Mr Collins is so given to verbal flair in his letters: \"Eloquence is logic on fire.\" But Mr. C is so thick Lizzy's sarcastic remarks go right over his head: \"He who laughs last didn't get the joke.\" As Charlotte discovered on her wedding night at Lucas Lodge: \"One good turn usually gets most of the blanket.\" As Mr Wickham knows after running up debts all over town: \"It's not hard to meet expenses; they are everywhere.\" Mr Wickham has designs on the fortunes of many young ladies: \"Don't steal. The government hates competition.\" Contrasting Mrs Bennet with Mr Collins we observe: \"Silly is a state of mind. Stupid is a way of life\" As Mr Collins approaches Darcy at Netherfield, Lizzy is abhorent: \"There is a fine line between courage and foolishness. Too bad it's not a fence.\" The younger Bennets (and parents) at the Netherfield ball exemplify: \"Never offend with style when you can offend with substance\" Mary discovers the perfect defense against potential suitors: \"An effective way to deal with predators is to taste terrible.\" Jane's letters to Caroline go astray, and Lizzy's is almost misdirected too: \"People usually get what's coming to them... unless it was mailed\" After buying a frivilous hat Lydia finds that: \"Matter cannot be created or destroyed; nor can it be returned without a receipt.\" Mrs Bennet is so distracted by Lydia's disappearance she feels that: \"The more things change, the more they stay insane\" When challenging Lizzy's supposed enagement, Lady C discovers: \"There is no substitute for good manners, except, perhaps, fast reflexes.\" After Dary's first proposal, he finds that: \"Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else.\" Mr B acknowledges about Lydia's elopement: \"I don't have any solution, but I certainly admire the problem\" Lydia has a practical approach to meeting officers: \"Yield to temptation; it might not pass your way again.\" It's not that Wickham is living on the edge: \"I just need enough to tide me over until I need more\" Upon receiving his new son-in-law Wickham at Longborne, Mr B feels: \"I would like to help you out. Which way did you come in?\" And Lydia finds her Wickham losing affection after they settle down: \"The three stages of sex in marriage: tri-weekly; try-weekly; try-weakly.\" Upon meeting Lady C, Lizzy felt: \"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception\" Upon receiving Darcy's letter, Lizzy finds: \"You have the capacity to learn from mistakes. You will learn a lot today.\" In her confrontation with Lizzy, Lady C discovers she is a: \"Bachelorette: A woman who is footloose and fiancee-free.\" Should Lizzy visit Pemberley and risk meeting Darcy? \"To vacillate or not to vacillate, that is the question... or is it?\" After his spontaneous swim, Dary surely felt: \"I must get out of these wet clothes and into a dry Martini\" After visting the Pemberley, Lizzy begins to fall under Darcy's spell \"While money doesn't buy love, it puts you in a great bargaining position\" After Darcy is properly humbled by Lizzy he feels: \"I may not be the world's greatest lover, but number seven's not bad\" Although Dary has not yet learned to be laughed at, he and Lizzy discover: \"Sex is the most fun you can have without laughing.\" And Darcy's philosphy toward women is: \"I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best\" And finally, when it comes to P&P viewing and reading: \"Some is good, more is better, too much is just right.\" Or more simply: \"Too much of a good thing is WONDERFUL. -- Mae West,\" Well that's all for now. Anything else come to mind, fellow conferees?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "Whew! It'll take me a while to digest all those! Did you write the Laws Of Acquisition as well, Bill?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Dina", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (13:20)", "body": "There is no way I can be that clever!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (13:30)", "body": "too funny Bill"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "You are all too smart for me... Very witty."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (13:46)", "body": "ROTFLOL, ROTFLOL, ROTFLOL, ROTFLOL, ROTFLOL, ROTFLOL, ROTFLOL, ROTFLOL"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (14:50)", "body": "Prolonged AGing!!! Very, very amusing!!!!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (17:32)", "body": "ROTFLOL Very clever Bill! All your own??"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (17:41)", "body": "Did I write all the oneliners, Inko? Nay, not one - just pounded out the intros this morning and put it together. Caroline - you mentioned Laws of Acquisition?? Do you feel I acquired something I should not have, perchance? I am all bewilderment!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (19:23)", "body": "Bill -- Charlotte Lucas actually didn't spend her wedding night at Lucas Lodge: ``The bride and bridegroom set off for Kent from the church door.'' -- Chapter 26 Also, I'm sorry to hear that you find Lizzy \"abhorrent\""}, {"response": 14, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (19:35)", "body": "Re: Lucas Lodge, guess I took a turn for the verse (artistic license!). I was relying on my quicksand-like memory: easy to get info in; extremely difficult to get info out. Thanks for the correction. As for finding the possessor of 1,500 millihelens of beauty abhorrent: impossible. But for me spelling (and finding the correct word) is a \"lossed art\". Have you ever noticed how much more effective proofreading is after publication? I seem to have a proclivity to drop at least a few words while typing (guess I'm too used to having my language compiler find the bugs for me!). Sigh."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar 13, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "Very entertaining -- obviously from a much more creative mind than mine!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (09:05)", "body": "Well, here we are back in the low rent district of Austen topics - Cheapside, if you will, where puns and cheap side-splitters may abound. Glad to be of amusement - your comments left me with a sheepish grin; which I have since cloned, BTW. The world's first, without a doubt. As I am utterly unoriginal, I have asked Quarky the quantum duck, my nervous friend for these past 20 postings to speak up whenever I trespass on someone else wit. BTW, I did raise ducks, geese, rabbits, chickens, pigeons, and even an uncloned lamb in my first half life in the outskirts of Gland Rapids, MI - (BTW did you know that radioactive cats have 18 half lives? Quark! But I digress within my digression, a truly perverse recurse.)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (09:15)", "body": "H-m-m-m. For some reason my Internet Explorer refuses to upload longer messages. To continue my train of thought: As for the one-liners, a happy(?) thought occurred. I have a few left in my bag; perhaps you would like to connect them to a P&P person and/or situation (video or literal). For example, were I to present: \"Hey, someone stole the cork off my lunch\" (Quark! W.C. Fields) you could instantly link it with the all-too obvious Rip Van Hurst. Reaching deep into the back of my hall closet (Fibber McGee fans may AG here - wow, that really dates me, but that's just all well - no one else will, nor should they, for I am a harpily married man! Just kidding, no flames please. Would that make me a post toast-ee!?). Anyway I found the following one liner - not sure who wrote it, but Midler would be my best Bette: \"But enough about me. Let's talk about you. What do you think of me?\" Anyone from P&P jump out at you. (If so ... DUCK - Quark!). Any takers? BTW, if you have any proposals for better use of any of previous one-liners, I would love to hear of it. Thanks."}, {"response": 18, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (10:21)", "body": "Very funny enjoyed a lot :)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (12:59)", "body": "\"But enough about me. Let's talk about you. What do you think of me?\" Lady Catherine but should would only remain silent for the first two or three words of the answer before telling the person that they thought of her."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:00)", "body": "DTBT first time around. \"But enough about me. Let's talk about you. What do you think of me?\" Lady Catherine but she would only remain silent for the first two or three words of the answer before telling the person that they thought of her."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "Bill - But for me spelling (and finding the correct word) is a \"lossed art\". Have you ever noticed how much more effective proofreading is after publication? I seem to have a proclivity to drop at least a few words while typing (guess I'm too used to having my language compiler find the bugs for me!). Sigh. Bill, that's called 'doing the Bingley thing\" (DTBT); take a peek at the Glossary topic for the definition. We are all proficients at DTBT, I daresay. :-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:58)", "body": "Radioactive cats? If I send mine to Los Alamos, will they live twice as long?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (14:12)", "body": "Kali, nope, your cats will live as long as always; note 18 half lives = 9 full lives. It is similar with people: two can live as cheaply as one ---- for half as long (Quark!). I agree, Lady C is the outstanding candidate. Here is an another volley, this time from Golda Meir: \"Don't be humble ... you're not that great\""}, {"response": 24, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (17:17)", "body": "\"Don't be humble ... you're not that great\" muttered by Lizzie as she reads Darcy's letter!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (09:30)", "body": "\"Don't be humble...\" Inko, that certainly does capture Lizzy's resentment. I had only considered Mr Collins and his constant fawning pride of connection to Lady C. Here's another for consideration: \"My opinions might have changed, but not the fact that I am right!\""}, {"response": 26, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (12:04)", "body": "\"Lost in the dangling conversation ...\" Persuasion - by Mary Holtby How barren is the baronet Who in production falters, So far as only girls to get! - This fate was poor Sir Walter's. An Elliot of the purest breed, His rank he strongly fancies, But Kellynch Hall he must concede Because of strained finances. His tenant is a naval man And curiously, related To one who'd wooed his daughter, Anne, Which she'd reciprocated. Eight years ago this gentle soul To chuck him was persuaded, By friends and kin, though, on the whole, She could not think as they did. Back in her life (a trifle stiff), He flirts with pert Louisa, Who likes to take the high-jump if His hands are there to seize her. But once too often, tempting fate, This miss just missed her mister, Who carried her inanimate To those who could assist her. She from her fall - and Frederick - Conveniently recovers, And both are commendably quick To gather other lovers. (Sir Walter's heir supports the trend; Of Anne profanely dreaming, He swaps her for her father's friend - An end to mutual scheming.) For Fred at heart's a faithful man And early takes occasion Once more to speak his love to Anne, Who now needs no Persuasion. from: 'How to Become Ridiculously Well-Read in One Evening' compiled by E. O. Parrott, Viking, Penguin Books, 1985"}, {"response": 27, "author": "summit", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (07:41)", "body": "Bill: Are you on speed?? Espresso round the clock? Or simply Spock's replica, buzzing away on UHF beyond our collective grey matter? ;-)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (09:17)", "body": "Wendy, I deserve neither such praise, nor such censure! ;-)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (09:18)", "body": "Gentle conferees, For the past several months I have been researching P&P in preparation for my forthcoming essay: 'Evaluating the Major Themes of P&P - a Critical Approach to Critical Approaches'. So imbued have I become with all that is P&P that even sleep brought no relief from P&P ruminations. This morning I awoke in a sweat, shocked and grieved by a most startling revelation. The major protagonists are not Lizzy and Darcy after all; they are instead (and I know you will have hard time believing this): Mr. Wickham and r. Collins! I am sure that you are just as surprised, vexed and put out to learn this as I was. If you will do me the honor of reading this, perhaps you will acquit me of the charge of writing in such stupid manner. The true theme of P&P is not, as has been assumed for so many centuries, the unreliability of hate at first sight. No, rather, the subtle theme is this: the absolute necessity for the separation of the Church and Estate. Think about it. The upper class in P&P has made an absolute botch of providing quality spiritual leadership for the fleeced of the species. What was Lady Catherine thinking when she offered the Living to our hero, that most stupid of men, Mr. Collins? This, the man who suggested to Mr. Be net that it was his Christian duty to forget Lydia and never again mention her name, just because she wanted to see a little bit of London with some guy. And the senior Mr. Darcy was obviously a very poor judge of character: to think that Mr. Wickham would be in any way qualified in preparing sermons for a living. True, he could talk a good game, yet he is such a man! This theme was no doubt so revolutionary and shocking for the times that our beloved Ms. Austen had to be very sly with us and bury it amon st the extraneous themes concerning the imposition of good manners upon the proper performance of the mating dance. Happily, truth sees daylight at last. You can imagine the effect of this revelation on my equanimity. How humiliating was such a discovery! I, who prided myself in my discernment! Until that moment I never truly knew myself. But I am determined not to be misled for the second time. I am going to continue my deliberations until I feel, as well as know, that I am right. I am determined to make this thesis of Church-Estate Separation the basis of my first book. There being a great economy of in the distribution of good taste, I know that such a ook will not enjoy a very large readership, but I have hopes that royalties will provide a comfortable income - say about 10 thousand a year (what pin money, what jewels!). I'm thinking about titling the book: 'A Truth Universally Acknowledged - AND WRONG!' Being a computer geek, I am fully aware of my artistic limitations, and, as we all know just how unreliable first impressions can be, perhaps you, my cyber friends, can assist by coming up with a snappier title that will greatly increase its chances of walking out the bookstore. Merci, in advance."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:49)", "body": "Re:#29 LOL! Bill, what a delight you are!! I have no titles to suggest for your book, but I will buy it."}, {"response": 31, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (15:00)", "body": "You truly are one of a kind Bill!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (22:23)", "body": "Very interesting, Bill -- but, do you believe that times have changed? I may not be the best judge here (as I am, I must confess a blatant liberal -- I believe that at the present, you can get shot for admitting such a thing here in Calif.) Think of the \"Moral Majority\" and how they talk of God, Jesus, and Forgivness in one breath and then give huge sums of money to the Republican Party and blast \"Welfare Moms\". We also have the ultra rich conservatives (Rush comes to mind here), filled so much with pa anoid hate while promoting Christianity. Anyway, please forgive me, I certainly didn't mean to shove my own political agenda down anyone's throat here, but you seemed to have hit a nerve :-) -- Anyway, my point being...have times changed?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (09:03)", "body": "What!, Candace, California liberals wish me bodily harm merely for my original interpretation of P&P? (Do I detect a slight tug of my leg?) Such an opinion could hardly be called liberal, indeed, it is quite the opposite! But rest assured, Candace, although I may be teaching you not to believe a word I say, in my libertarian soul I find great enjoyment in occasionally professing opinions which are not my own. It was certainly not my intent to rouse the sleeping dogs of politics and religion; no, let us allow them to slumber undisturbed. ;-)"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (10:33)", "body": "Tis true that the Brontes father was a known eccentric. Later characterized by Charlotte, simply misanthropic. There is a very interesting article in this months \"Biography\" about what the Bronte's went through. They wrote about what the \"lived\",but everyone knew this,right.;-)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (12:29)", "body": "How should one consider the almost total lack of response to my bold book proposal? I beg your pardon but one knows exactly what to think: farewell pin money and jewels. 'Tis a pity as I was quite prepared to bring to light the influences of JA's pastoral father upon her views on the separation of Church and Estate. But now it is all lost; and once lost it is lost forever. But let us not quarrel about the past. And let us not say goodbye, but as the Basques have it: 'Je parle francais comme une vache Espa jole!' ;-)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (12:35)", "body": "Yes particularly the Basque :) LOL"}, {"response": 37, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (13:10)", "body": "Bill, Jane Austen already included the topic of separation of church and state in her Plan of a Novel according to Hints from Various Quarters : ``SCENE to be in the Country, Heroine the Daughter of a Clergyman, one who after having lived much in the World had retired from it and settled in a Curacy, with a very small fortune of his own. -- He, the most excellent Man that can be imagined, perfect in Character, Temper, and Manners -- without the smallest drawback or peculiarity to prevent his being the most delightful companion to his Daughter from one year's end to the other. -- Heroine a faultless Character herself, -- perfectly good, with much tenderness and sentiment, and not the least Wit -- very highly accomplished, understanding modern Languages and (generally speaking) everything that the most accomplished young Women learn, but particularly excelling in Music -- her favourite pursuit -- and playing equally well on the PianoForte and Harp -- and singing in the first stile. Her Person quite beautiful -- dark eyes and plump cheeks. -- Book to open with the description of Father and Daughter -- who are to converse in long speeches, elegant Language -- and a tone of high serious sentiment. -- The Father to be induced, at his Daughter's earnest request, to relate to her the past events of his Life. This Narrative will reach through the greatest part of the first volume -- as besides all the circumstances of his attachment to her Mother and their Marriage, it will comprehend his going to sea as Chaplain to a distinguished naval character about the Court, his going afterwards to Court himself, which introduced him to a great variety of Characters and involved him in many interesting situations, concluding with his opinions on the Benefits to result from Tithes being done away , and his having buried his own Mother (Heroine's lamented Grandmother) in consequence of the High Priest of the Parish in which she died refusing to pay her Remains the respect due to them. The Father to be of a very literary turn, an Enthusiast in Literature, nobody's Enemy but his own -- at the same time most zealous in discharge of his Pastoral Duties, the model of an exemplary Parish Priest. -- The heroine's friendship to be sought after by a young woman in the same Neighbourhood, of Talents and Shrewdness, with light eyes and a fair skin, but having a considerable degree of Wit, Heroine shall shrink from the acquaintance. From this outset, the Story will proceed, and contain a striking variety of adventures. Heroine and her Father never above a fortnight together in one place, he being driven from his Curacy by the vile arts of some totally unprincipled and heart-less young Man, desperately in love with the Heroine, and pursuing her with unrelenting passion. -- No sooner settled in one Country of Europe than they are necessitated to quit it and retire to another -- always making new acquaintance, and always obliged to leave them. -- This will of course exhibit a wide variety of Characters -- but there will be no mixture; the scene will be for ever shifting from one Set of People to another -- but All the Good will be unexceptionable in every respect -- and there will be no foibles or weaknesses but with the Wicked, who will be completely depraved and infamous, hardly a resemblance of humanity left in them. -- Early in her career, in the progress of her first removals, Heroine must meet with the Hero -- all perfection of course -- and only prevented from paying his addresses to her by some excess of refinement. -- Wherever she goes, somebody falls in love with her, and she receives repeated offers of Marriage -- which she refers wholly to her Father, exceedingly angry that he should not be first applied to. -- Often carried away by the anti-hero, but rescued either by her Father or by the Hero -- often reduced to support herself and her Father by her Talents and work for her Bread; continually cheated and defrauded of her hire, worn down to a Skeleton, and now and then starved to death. -- At last, hunted out of civilized Society, denied the poor Shelter of the humblest Cottage, they are compelled to retreat into Kamschatka where the poor Father, quite worn down, finding his end approaching, throws himself on the Ground, and after 4 or 5 hours of tender advice and parental Admonition to his miserable Child, expires in a fine burst of Literary Enthusiasm, intermingled with Invectives against holders of Tithes . -- Heroine inconsolable for some time -- but afterwards crawls back towards her former Country -- having at least 20 narrow escapes from falling into the hands of the Anti-hero -- and at last in the very nick of time, turning a corner to avoid him, runs into the arms of the Hero himself, who having just shaken off the scruples which fetter'd him before, was at the very moment setting off in pursuit of her. -- The Tenderest and completest Eclaircissement takes place, and they are happily united. -- Throughout the whole work, "}, {"response": 38, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "Would have responded but didn't know what to say, after all I live in the state that keeps sending Jesse Helms to DC (Ugh)!:-( (I think HC said it best) Religious structures are highly political, arent they?"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (16:35)", "body": "And often, politics become religion to those playing the game..."}, {"response": 40, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (21:43)", "body": "Answer to Bill #39 -- Kind sir, I believe that you misunderstood my ranting. I would never imply that your position on this subject would be unfavorable here in Calif. or anywhere else. You simply stated an opinion about JA's writings. I was referring to my own \"liberal\" opinions which I believe are no longer tolerated in my state."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (08:40)", "body": "Thank you, the ever more Mysterious H.C., for the valuable contribution of your splendid research. It appears that JA's antipathy for the clergy was even stronger than I suspected. Much obliged."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (08:40)", "body": "Whew, Candace, what a relief! Thanks for clearing away the confusion. Whenever the phrase 'you can get shot' appears in a sentence discussing my opinions, I tend to get a little jumpy (my poor nerves), and usually land on the wrong conclusion. Now I shall be able to visit your fair state this summer with greater peace of mind (I'll be the tall gentleman with the short beard - be sure to wave). My younger sister is eloping with some bounder, but I dare say I shall not have the resources necessary to preven this business. It appears that I have achieved true 'ditty bitty' symmetry: sloppy reading as well as sloppy writing. Presumably the definition of a mild case of dyslexic DTBT would be: itty bitty ditty! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 191, "subject": "P&P in simple English", "response_count": 47, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (13:32)", "body": "Oh my god!!!NO!! I think something like this is a definite travesty to Jane Austen and to literature. Literature is beautiful, more beautiful when most difficult!! Ayelet please take that book and discard it and pray no one else finds it."}, {"response": 2, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "I agree. What makes the book beautiful is the language. Plain English will prevent thinking - all those lovely images will be erased to simply read quickly."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Dina", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (15:36)", "body": "Why would anyone want to read something for just a plot? It would be like reading a comic book. Plots are for telling, books for reading. Literature has simile, metaphors, rhyme, alliteration, personification, onomatopoeia, foreshadowing, suspense, romance, familial love, etc. Why would you want to miss out on reading something that takes your breath away? Would you want to miss those books that you just have to read slow because every other sentence is worth reading over again? What if Melville had just said \"My name is Ishmael\"? What if Grendle was \"just\" a monster? What if Conrad had just said \"it was bad\" rather than \"the horror!! the horror!!? I think you see my point. Yes, Ayelet, burn it!!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (16:19)", "body": "Any popularization of any work is better than none at all, if it can bring a spark of interest to a young mind or a not so young mind, the same as the effect of some movie or tv series might do, well Happy thoughts This may well lead to something more, widening interest and learning something new in the process, there is always place for brodening the mind :) A very good initiative used often in school, like P&P2, no?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (16:49)", "body": "My response just disappeared into na, na land, so I'll try to recreate it. ]...for teenages in non-English cuontries like Israel, it's maybe their only chance to meet P&P and JA, and maybe even make them want to read the real version. Ayelet, I think this is a valid point. If one already understands the story, she/he may be better able to appreciate the beauty of the Regency English and JA's exceptional use of it. It could be used as a tool for learning by comparing the two ways of describing an incident. Laura, Lynn, Dina, I understand your abhorrence, but I do feel that such a book can be useful. Please do not burn it, Ayelet!! Linda"}, {"response": 6, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (17:29)", "body": "I think it's a useful tool Ayelet, especially for young scholars in perhaps a country where English may be just one of many languages. Not a good idea just to discard it. Almost all books should be treasured, I think."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (19:57)", "body": "Part of the reason I love P&P is because of the language usage. How can Darcy's comment \"fine eyes\" be anything but! I just think that it gives the whole story character! We see alot of movies about a guy wanting a girl and she doesn't know she likes him until the end....it just isn't the same as Jane Austens usage of the language and having it set in England....it's like comparing Darcy to Pauly Shore, for crying out loud!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (20:24)", "body": "This kind of reminds me of the debate around releasing the Bible with \"popular\" language. There are even some \"urban\" & \"feminist\" versions out there (God is a she, but we all knew that). I don't know. I hate to see fine things dumbed down. What makes P&P so special & immortal is Austen's wit, style, and language. Without these, why bother?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (21:42)", "body": "\"I hate to see fine things dumbed down.\" The King James Version might not be any smarter than newer bible translations, it's just the language is generally perceived as more poetic and the older language forms make it sound more sophisticated to our modern ears. Since the King james Version is only a translation, an argument could be made that translating it out of the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek is also dumbing it down. If a modern translation can bring more people into religion I have no arguments about it. As for Austen, I'm sort of the same way. Someone who reads an abridged version of P&P has at least gotten some basic exposure to it. Some might then have their interest aroused enough that they will pick up the real thing. Same goes for the movie versions--they have certainly brought more people into Austenland, but are certainly dumbed down from the pure novel."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (21:42)", "body": "Ayelet, sounds to me like you have got hold of an \"easy reader\" version. They are not wonderful, but they do help. I have to admit that when I was about your age, my grandfather gave me a book, very big and very ugly, called \"Famous books in Outline\" which summarised every story you could think of, form \"Gilgamesh\" and Plato's \"Republic\" on through Caesar's \"Gallic Wars\", Bunyan's \"The Pilgrim's Progress\", \"Jane Eyre\" and \"Wuthering Heights\" to \"Tom Sawyer\", \"Mein Kamf\"and \"Das Kapital\". Over a hundred bo ks in all. Most of the writing in it was awful, but it got me interested enough to read the real thing, and kept the idea alive for those books that were beyond my understanding in the original.It was one of the best presents I was ever given!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "which summarised every story you could think of, form \"Gilgamesh\" and Plato's \"Republic\" on through Caesar's \"Gallic Wars\", Bunyan's \"The Pilgrim's Progress\", \"Jane Eyre\" and \"Wuthering Heights\" to \"Tom Sawyer\", \"Mein Kamf\"and \"Das Kapital\". There are \"Wuthering Heights\" and \"The Wind In The Willows\" in this format as well. I wonder if they thought about doing it to \"War And Peace\"? ;-)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "Ayelet, you are so funny. Again, I must ask. Can you really be 11 years old?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (22:44)", "body": "The first version I read of Little Women was a children's version. I loved it (I was 10), later read an 'unabridged' version (in my early teens), and soon after read every Alcott book I could get my hands on. It is not necessarily a bad thing. I do worry that students of works assigned in class will often by-pass reading great novels by reading Classic Comics, Cliff's Notes, and children's versions. What a waste! (Although in the case of anything written by Hawthorne I think it is reas nable!;-) )"}, {"response": 14, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Fri, Mar 14, 1997 (22:58)", "body": "Amy, if you insist upon it, I'm 12 on may."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (09:59)", "body": "I hate to censor anyone's ability to do anything that isn't actually harmful to others, and if it gets people interested in reading great books they wouldn't otherwise ever pick up, then maybe it's a good thing. BUT, I'm wondering if this kind of thing has ever been done with Shakespeare, for instance? Isn't he considered sacrosanct, even though the language he used is so different from ours now? It is precisely because he was so good that we're still performing his plays hundreds of years later, and t e same applies to JA. I also think, as someone mentioned above, that a lot is lost and misinterpreted in the act of translation, and I wouldn't want to miss one minute of any of JA's books."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (10:56)", "body": "Re: #12 Amy, as we would say \"down home\", Ayelet is 11 going on 40!! Delightful! Re:#15 Susan, yes it has been done with Shakespeare. As a matter of fact, I have a copy of Tales from Shakespeare by Charles and Mary Lamb (I may be wrong about the authors' names). I first saw it in the library at my High School. I bought a copy for my nephew when he was in Junior High School. He said that he found it helpful. Unfortunately, it has yet to induce him to read the real Shakespeare. He is in 11th grade and more interested in sports. I still have hopes for the future, though. Ayelet, your name reads beautifully, how is it pronounced?? Linda"}, {"response": 17, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "Re Shakespeare: Shakespeare does of course get translated into many other languages in MODERN language, which must mean it's easier for the average German or Japanese to understand than it is for us. I think abbreviated versions do have some merit, if only as a way of explaining what you are going to read when you read the real thing. No one could read a Shakespeare play these days without a glossary - there are words that simply don't make sense to us any more. I have no doubt that the day will come when it is impossible to read Austen without a dictionary or glossary. Whatever helps, I say. I do admit, however, that beautiful language is part of the attraction of Austen and Shakespeare. But if you don't know what it means, it's useless. Work out what the story is however you can. And then LUXURIATE in the language."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:26)", "body": "Another intersting translation prejudice occurs in opera. In America, and I believe also in Britain, operas are listened to in their original language and are therefore unintellegeble to most English-speaking listeners. This is not true elsewhere in the world, where they are translated into the local tongue. I think this is due to a bit of an historical snob-factor in opera circles (which I believe is dying out). Old-time opera-snobs seemed to want to distinguish themselves from the rest, and did not want to see opera democratised. With shrinking budgets and the need to fill more seats in the theaters, this is all changing. Opera companies can no longer only cater to the few and must broaden their appeal. It is an interesting transition to watch. (Though I do it from the outside, I'm not an opera fan myself.)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:51)", "body": "Interesting thought, Ann. Maybe that's why I've never been an opera fan, but I love all Gilbert & Sullivan operettas - partly because they're in English, but mostly because their funny !;-)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (22:59)", "body": "Inko: but I love all Gilbert & Sullivan operettas - partly because they're in English, but mostly because their funny!;-) Yes, I'm a huge G&S fan as well. Even sang Cousin Hebe in HMS Pinafore in college...\"And so are his sisters and his cousins and his aunts!\" (my big line!)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:02)", "body": "Linda: A-ye-let, many people think it's Eyelet, but it isn't."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (13:25)", "body": "I saw a version of P&P in the children's section of the county library, I flipped through it but don't remember the particulars. It was short, but they tried to (I think) keep some of the sentence structure and syntax. I thought it could be a introduction for 8 -11 yr olds. (Excepting exceptional kids like Ayelet.) Am enjoying Annes story, and the piece on Mary."}, {"response": 23, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:48)", "body": "]BUT, I'm wondering if this kind of thing has ever been done with Shakespeare, for instance? Would'nt West Side Story or Wishbone apply if we include other medias other than just books? ]I do admit, however, that beautiful language is part of the attraction of Austen and Shakespeare. But if you don't know what it means, it's useless. Quite true, especially when your tackling a second/third language. Subtlety of the language itself is sometimes lost, imagine one written a few centuries earlier. Once you get the basic plot line, you can work around enjoying the various colors of the language."}, {"response": 24, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (15:26)", "body": "There's a program on Canadian Bravo called Operabox which is 30 minutes long that uses puppets to depict operas like the Barber of Seville, Carmen, or Rigoletto. It's quite funny to hear these marionettes sing in English but it helps us to get the jist of the tales. I personaly prefer hearing an opera in its original language (either French or Italian) because I understand those languages but I must admit that the use of English subtitles makes it more enjoyable for me when it becomes too difficult to com rehend their singing."}, {"response": 25, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (20:16)", "body": "Ann: I'm hardly a Biblical scholar, so I can't argue if the King James Version is \"dumber\" than the original. However, the modern versions I mentioned are conscious simplifications whose goal is basically to appeal to post-literate readers. In my own experience, I've always enjoyed the original version of a work the best (& that includes thoughtful, unabridged translations). For example, Malory's MORTE D'ARTHUR has been translated a million ways, from pseudo-Shakespearean language to really simple kidd e versions. But if you go back to the original in Middle English, you find a beauty & simplicity of language that's really staggering. And not a trace of a \"thee\" or \"thou\"!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (20:09)", "body": "Did I mention that my Malory obsession is even greater than my P&P one? Any other K. Arthur fans out there?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (10:25)", "body": "Me! Though I must admit I've been neglecting it in favor of other, ummmm, pursuits lately. ;)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (10:36)", "body": "I've never thought of Arthur in quite the same way since I read \"The Mists of Avalon\"..."}, {"response": 29, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (10:53)", "body": "Kate: Hope MZB didn't ruin it for you! Whenever I think of an author whose work has lost so much in translation, I think of Malory. Does anyone know why translators had the compulsion to make him sound like Shakespeare? I mean, they didn't do this to Chaucer!!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (11:25)", "body": "Amy2 - I noticed that, too! It seemed to me that the beauty of the story was the simplicity, like old Anglo-Saxon tales or Greek myths. The language mucked it up, and reduced the enjoyment considerably. I really had to make up my mind to ignore the language and pay attention to the story."}, {"response": 31, "author": "jennyh", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (11:49)", "body": "Ayelet, you brought up quite an interesting subject! English not being mother tongue and Korean being so different from English, I am sure I would have not enjoyed reading Classics such as Austen's when I first got here. (Reading A. Christie's mystery novels is a different story, however.) It would help for people like me to read those books in simpler English at first and then in their original form if one wants to. For people who decide not to read an original version, it is their lost. However, I ave a different opinion about Opera. I love Operas not for their story (I must confess), but for their music and for love of human voices as one kind of musical intruments. I have been operas sung both in original language and in simple English version and I prefer (I need stronger word than this) operas with original language!!! Subtitle helps though. Jenny"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (11:50)", "body": "I've never thought of Arthur in quite the same way since I read \"The Mists of Avalon\"... Me too!!!! I have read Malory and a few others. Had my Authurian obsession the summer after high school. A co-worker gave me TMOA to read. Hmmmm."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "English is certainly not as pretty a language as Italian or French. I can easily see that the sound of an opera in English would not be as pleasing as one in Italian."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (13:51)", "body": "There is a great conversation about opera languages in Amadeus. Makes me want to go rent it right now. Think I will. Fave scene though: when Sagliari (sp?) really sees Mozart's genius by doing his scribbling and bibbling for him."}, {"response": 35, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "I must say I did actually _enjoy_ Avalon. I found it really interesting to see the whole story from a female point of view. And I found all the stuff about the pre-Christian religions fascinating.... if farfetched. My mother read it after me and got so into the Arthurian stuff that when they went to England the following year she had to visit Tintagel, etc,etc I read \"The Once and Future King\" when I was in high school and really loved it. But I hardly remember it now."}, {"response": 36, "author": "jennyh", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:31)", "body": "This is another one that I need to clarify myself. I did not mean English is not as pretty as Italian or French. Although I do not know all the languages out there, I am pretty sure all are beautiful. When I had a hard time appreciating other languages, it is mostly because I am not familiar with its usual sounds. Lyrics are (to me) like poem or even Austen's novels. When it gets translated, somehow it does not quite retain all its beauty. What do you think, Amy? If I remember correctly, Mozart wanted to write an opera in German (in Amadeus) not in Italian which was the language to use that time. I do like Mozart opera, too. I am not familiar with Gilberts and Sulllivans. I know it is not the same. HOwever I also love many musicals written in English. As a side note, I watched MANY American movies dubbed in Korean when I was younger. I have seen only a few movies both in original English and in Korean dubbing, but I say translation does not quite do the just ce. Perhaps it is a fault of a translator. Jenny"}, {"response": 37, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "Jenny -- I agree about dubbing (non English films into English). The words do not match the lips, and they have to translate to fit the correct amount of time. It must be very difficult. I prefer subtitles, although then it is harder to watch the people."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (07:01)", "body": "Oh yes Amy, you mean when he is taking the Requiem music down on papers and Mozart is dying?? He can't believe such music to just emerge from the mans head...but he can appreciate it...so excited, crying 'yes yes and then...' What say you of the scene where Constanze brings Mozarts sheets of music to Salieri, to beg him to help them. And he suddenly understand that they are originals, almost no changes...and 'Music of such exquisite beauty' simply written down as it is created, I get that spring tingle even when I think of it.. Jenny, I believe \"The Magic Flute=Die Zauberfl\ufffdte\"\" was originally done in German...Der Vogelf\ufffdnger bin ich ja...done for the amusement of ordinary people."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (08:30)", "body": "] And he suddenly understand that they are originals, almost no changes...and 'Music of such exquisite beauty' simply written down as it is created, I get that spring tingle even when I think of it.. __ Yes, first and only drafts. This is confirmed in his letters. I think he must have been channeling -- or something. Such a fine movie."}, {"response": 40, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (11:26)", "body": "I understand that Marion Zimmer Bradley in fact practices wicca, so maybe that's where her knowledge of \"pagan\" religions comes in. As far as poor Malory -- there's this incredible version of the MORTE which is published by the University of California - it's a 2-volume set, and it's a very faithful transcription of his own manuscript. The language is so much better than all that faux-Shakespearian stuff! The non-standard spelling is a little hard to take, but after a while, it kind of grows on you. T is is my favorite translation of the MORTE."}, {"response": 41, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (22:37)", "body": "My opinion on this subject probably will not be too popular, but I think that all classics should be brought down to simple English for easy access esp. for those of us whose first language is not English, but cannot read well enough in our first language to reach the level of classics. Although, P&P was the exception to the rule, I have a tendency to find the classics through comic books, Barron's Notes, Coles Notes, or TV/Movie Adaptations first. That's how I read The Scarlet Letter, Catcher in the Rye, To Kill a Mockingbird, and numerous Shakespearean plays. After I've figured out the main plot, I can then go back to enjoy the intricate details of the story. For me this is especially good for classics because I always want to know what the plot is, first. Once I am satisfied that the hero or heroine end up in a reasonable situation, I can go back to the story and read it thoroughly. This weakness is also the reason why I can't get through a Dickens or any long on description novels. I tend to skip long escriptions and somewhere along the way I end up missing some important parts of the plot. Once that happens, I'm usually lost and can't finish it. So in short, I'm all for P&P in simple english."}, {"response": 42, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (11:18)", "body": "Angela, I understand your point, but literature is so much more than plot! When you read a truncated version of any work, classic or no, you're missing out on the author's language, style, insights; in short, everything that makes it literary. I think it's worth the struggle to try to read a work as close to the original as you can. Otherwise, you're not really reading the work."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (03:40)", "body": "I've been following this topic for awhile. When I first read P&P, it was a summerized version introduced into school as an introduction to Literature ( I was then 12 yrs old and in school in Singapore). The essence of the JA's story was there with less details to confuse a young-classic reader. But Mr Darcy still proposed in his \"In vain have I struggled..\" Parts of the book was simply explained to us,the bits that didn't make sense in the normal usage of English. 3 years later , we did the full text, sat for the Cambridge Lit. exam.. and loved it. So maybe it could be a nice thought to start off without the intricacies of the langauge and then work your way up to the entire book. I admire the effort."}, {"response": 44, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (13:32)", "body": "I don't know. It seems to me it would be better to read books on your level initially, then read the classics when you're ready to read them. I have a 4-year-old nephew - I would prefer that he didn't try to tackle say, LES MISERABLES until he's ready, but in the meantime, there are many wonderful books for children he can easily comprehend & enjoy."}, {"response": 45, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (16:36)", "body": "In my house, Amy we have the reverse situation, my 10-year-old has a high-school reading level, but not the maturity to handle much of his reading level material. We are constantly trying to find things for him that he can reasonably be expected to relate with, and quite often he winds up \"reading down\" in order for me to be certain he doesn't get in over his head. He read some of the Children's Adaptations of classics several years ago, which helped him springboard into the real things - the Treasure I land, Robinson Crusoe, mostly adventure-type things. We tend to read new things together much of the time, helping me to monitor content, too. Once we find an \"acceptable\" author, based on both our requirements, Mark tends to exhaust all their works. Keeps me hopping! Oh, DTBT, I guess my point is that unexpectedly, I found a purpose in these versions of the \"classics\", but I'm pleased that we haven't used them as the end, but rather the means to get to know the real things,."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (18:33)", "body": "\" in these versions of the \"classics\", but I'm pleased that we haven't used them as the end, but rather the means to get to know the real things,. \" Thank you Cindy, my point exactly."}, {"response": 47, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (01:55)", "body": "Any other K. Arthur fans out there? Guilty! Too bad I hadn't seen your post before lunch today, Amy! Took my touring companions miles out of our way to visit the digs at Cadbury, only to find that it had already been filled in and returned to farmland again. :-( Jenny, I believe \"The Magic Flute=Die Zauberfl\ufffdte\"\" was originally done in German...Der Vogelf\ufffdnger bin ich ja...done for the amusement of ordinary people. Das ist richtig. (sp?) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 192, "subject": "After An Understanding", "response_count": 63, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (10:04)", "body": "I wonder if maybe they did cut some scenes here? If that violently in love warmth did not come out right, and it was to late to retake ? I am among those few(?), who would gladly trade that kiss in the carriage for moments of the long controlled love slowly finding its way, swift touches, devoted glances and a tender first kiss placed on wrist or palm. It is so unfair, when you consider what Gwyneth & Jeremy or Kate & Mark were allowed! (Makes me feel like I want to go to Brighton!! !)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (15:24)", "body": "I too felt that CF was much too retrained. Good grief, the young lady that has been consuming his passion for months has just accepted him, and he can't gather enought enthusiasm to crack a smile. Other than that, I thought CF's performance to be definitive. As for the clumsy kiss - perhaps they should be excused as it appears they did not take the trouble of practicing."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (15:26)", "body": "I too felt that CF was much too restrained. Good grief, the young lady that has been his consuming passion for so many months has just accepted him, and he can't gather enough enthusiasm to crack a smile. Other than that, I thought CF's performance to be definitive. As for the clumsy kiss - perhaps they should be excused as it appears they did not take the trouble of practicing."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (15:27)", "body": "DTBT - please forgive the double post - my mail server hiccupped and I was unaware that the first attempt went through."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "Bill, you have a marvelously funny way with words. Am enjoying your posts very much."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:13)", "body": "Bill, I guess what you and some of the Austen-L ladies see as \"restrained,\" most of us find to be fine subtle acting. I think he has a remarkable ability to raise his eyebrows a quarter of an inch, or just barely begin to roll his eyes -- and convey exactly what must be going on in his head. Me? I saw his relief and pleasure when Lizzy indicated she returned his feelings. I love the little looks. They are what keep the production, romantic as it is, from being, is there such a word? Meloromantic?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:49)", "body": "Very subtle indeed - but to my ears his subsequent conversation seemed a but rushed and contained all the warmth of a recipie recitation. Maybe he was so giddy with relief he was not the warm new Darcy of Permberley. Maybe he should have jumped in a nearby lake first before continuiing the conversation!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:54)", "body": "is there such a word? Meloromantic? If there isn't, Amy, there should be! I too thought his eyes and face expressed what Darcy was feeling--relief, happiness beyond words--and even JA says that Lizzie couldn't see his face while he was telling her what she meant to him which must have meant they kept on walking. On the other hand, I would also have liked the scene to be longer with more of the actual dialogue, plus the second walk, plus the day when Lizzie regained her lively spirit, plus everything that was left out! But we've been through all that before!!;-)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:43)", "body": "\"Good grief, the young lady that has been consuming his passion for months has just accepted him, and he can't gather enought enthusiasm to crack a smile.\" But his eyes!! They were absolutely sparkling! I think it is also useful to remember that they were not really alone, either in the production or in the book. In the book, Bingley and Jane were behind them--and therefore possibly watching the whole thing. (Interestingly, in one of the pics in \"Making Of\" they are also behind Lizzy and Darcy, but in the final cut, they are in front.) In the production, they had just passed a farm hand and Jane and Bingley were not that far ahead."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:55)", "body": "Yes, Ann, the eyes have it; but at such a moment why should Darcy be concerned about keeping a secret from his best friend Bingley? In the book Darcy told him as much (Lizzy could tell by the manner of his greeting that he had received the information - before the parents knew of it); and Lizzy told Jane that very night! What exactly would have been so extraordinary about his smiling with Lizzy? I agree that this second proposal scene was an abridgement too far - especially since so many hours of screen time were devoted to getting eveyone to this point."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:58)", "body": "A major part of Darcy's character is that he is a stickler for social propriety. This doesn't change with his reformation. He is still reserved, and by his nature, he probably always will be. Elizabeth might open him up a little, but once an INTJ, always an INTJ."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:58)", "body": "Bill - I like your way with words! An abridgement too far indeed!!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (21:17)", "body": "\"once an INTJ, always an INTJ\" Gawd, you mean I too am permanently afflicted with this condition! Oh well, it is indeed a great comfort to know that I resemble Darcy in one itty bitty way."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "In the book Darcy told him as much (Lizzy could tell by the manner of his greeting that he had received the information - before the parents knew of it) Bingley greeted Lizzie with warmth betraying his knowledge the day after the engagement. He next asked Mrs. Bennet \"...have you no more lanes hereabouts in which Lizzy may lose her way again today?\""}, {"response": 15, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (10:00)", "body": "Ann2, I agree, I agree!(sorry it took so long for me to get into this topic!)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "]I am among those few(?), who would gladly trade that kiss in the carriage for moments of the long controlled love slowly finding its way, swift touches, devoted glances and a tender first kiss placed on wrist or palm yes, we miss those. And it should have been included too, Bingley definitively knew about D's intent, and D's attitude in the 2nd proposal rather lukewarm not to say half-hearthed. Quite a change from his reformed-self, or at least far from the enthusiasticly-warm-and-cordial-caring-person we saw earlier ]in one of the pics in \"Making Of\" they are also behind Lizzy and Darcy An in-between-takes shot surely, while returning to refilm it again perhaps? They look like having a good time, not at all in context with the scene they portrayed"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "I'm with you on this one, Shayda. At least in the earlier BBC P&P (P&P1), Darcy at that point took Elizabeth's arm as they walked along and acted relieved and happy. In P&P1 Darcy change for as stiff as he was it was totally out of character for me. I thought it was strange for him to change that much. Also,(in the Davis) at the very end of their walk he did say \"Dearest lovelest Elizabeth\" he looked right at her and she was embarrassed. The end of the A&E Pride and Prejudice showed him more like his early self than his later, open one. Did it seem like this to other viewers? As for Davis version he was compatible to how Darcy felt at the time {not to sure of Lizzie ),( You are to generous to trifle with me,but one word from you will silence me on the subject \"for ever\" *sigh*) he showed Elizabeth as being very serious as Darcy. They both wanted to express theirs feelings for every nasty things they said to each other. Later that evening JA writes that Darcy is not of the dispostion in which happiness over-flows in mirth:rather knew she was happy;than felt herself to be so; fo , besides the \"immediate embarassment\" The actions/word Embarassement is used by JA through all of these scenes. That is what Davis was trying to portray. And it was not until the second walk( in the book) that Bingley knew of their engagement. more like his early self than his later, open one."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (16:44)", "body": "]more like his early self than his later, open one. This line at the bottom should not be there."}, {"response": 19, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (11:30)", "body": "Isn't the restrained nature of the lovers relationship, the very essense of a Jane Austen love story? The lover's uncertainties of feeling, the strictures of society,the opinions of others. The unequal status of the sexes during the period. D&B got it right. The later proposal and the kiss were done just right, seems to me. JE and CF got it right too."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (12:05)", "body": "I'm with Bill on this one. The brevity of this scene has always bothered me, particularly the omission of their discussion of the letter, what he felt writing it, what she felt upon receiving it, how they both changed their prejudices after the entire incident; to me this is the climax of the story! Colin did very well with what he was given, but it was a very paltry opportunity compared to what could have been covered in terms of actual dialogue to act upon."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (13:48)", "body": "\"particularly the omission of their discussion of the letter, what he felt writing it, what she felt upon receiving it, how they both changed their prejudices after the entire incident; to me this is the climax of the story!\" This was particularly needed, since they did such a poor job of showing Lizzy's change of heart. From the production alone, one could fairly conclude that she changed her mind because of Pemberley and not Darcy. It would have been great if they had included this."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (10:03)", "body": "A while back we considered the possibilty of kidnapping CF and JE and making them do the missing scenes.There was something about holding Livia hostage!Maybe someone here would like to write the screenplay?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (10:08)", "body": "Yes, Caroline. That should be the launch event of our new nation, conceived in drooling. The Republic of Pemberley can capture the attention of the universe with this harmless act of terrorism."}, {"response": 24, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (10:57)", "body": "ANy volunteers to kidnap CF?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (11:27)", "body": "I imagine we shall have a veritable brigade of kidnappers!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "Okay, everybody, after watching and rewatching a bizillion times, I swear that Darcy leans down and kisses her right after the \"dearest, loveliest Elizabeth\"! I have not been able to forgive whoever decided to cut it! (I know, I know, Cheryl, we've argued this before. However, I remain unconvinced!)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (01:57)", "body": "Cindy wish I could get a hold of your copy, because in mine he does lean a bit but does'nt come close to touching her"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (07:14)", "body": "Is there not one among our true proficients, able to do a little magic with Paintbrush or Coral draw, scanning some scenes from P&P2 and just make it happen?? It ought to be a challenge ! HC, Joan too, Amy, Ian, who else? Surely it can't be regarded a bigger crime, than putting a moustache on the Mona-Lisa. Not that I know the penalty for that... And your reward would be the love of the masses (in Rep of Pemberley anyway)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (08:27)", "body": "Do we have a picture that is quite close? Or would it have to be snappied in?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (11:22)", "body": "I work in a place that could turn Colin Firth into Laurence Olivier, but I don't know if I could find a Henry operator to aid me in this dastardly deed!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "Sorry, Johanne, but I'm sure that there's nothing magical about my copy. Cheryl has suggested that I'm seeing things because I want to see things. Hmph! It just looks too much like his downward motion had but one ultimate target. I can't imagine \"Cut!\" being yelled - too cruel"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (00:13)", "body": "Oh cindy, get over it, move on with your life! ;-)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (00:18)", "body": "oh, admit it, Cheryl, there can be but one target"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (01:15)", "body": "Maybe it's a case of the famous 'Knightley second thought'? When he (in some adaptions) is on the brink of kissing Emma's hand after her Bates-remorse-visit and then get's control back and just looks at it with devotion.?? Maybe Darcy was afraid to let go, not knowing where a kiss might take him... Mmmm ladies? It would not be all that impossible then Amy? You could chop their heads from the wedding carriage and paste them on the second proposal bodies!! This blasphemous suggestion is to help me sober down and get on with todays work. A Book Fair being held in my town today. See you."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Megan", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (02:39)", "body": "Of all the episodes, my least favourite is the last episode, only because the last scenes seem to be cut too short. I think, because it is cut short there is not enough time to show the transition in Darcy's behaviour from the first visit to Longbourn to the wedding itself. In the book, when Darcy comes to Longbourn with Bingley he is described to look silent,grave and indifferent, more like in Hertfordshire than when Lizzy had seen him at Pemberly. CF looks exactly as described here I think. But because the next scene they are together is the second proposal scene, it would have looked strange if he looked too happy and unrestricted when she accepts it. I don't think he kisses her in that scene Cindy, but just gives the impression that he very much would like to. That is far more erotic to me than if he had actually kissed her there. Just adds up to the sexual tension and anticipation. My objection is to the next shot after that though, when they are walking side by side looking straight ahead and not touching each other. It would have been better if she took his arm or if they were looking at each other. The warmth of the moment seemed to disappear for e when I saw them walking not even looking at each other. Megan"}, {"response": 36, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (11:22)", "body": "Right on, Megan! Davies gave us that hot kiss in EMMA 3; couldn't he have obliged us with CF & JE? Teazing, teazing man!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (12:05)", "body": "Guess Davies probably took notice of our disapointment in P&P's 2nd proposal' scene and tried to redeemed himself with the kiss in Emma :)"}, {"response": 38, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (13:52)", "body": "Johanne -- I bet you are correct about that. In the preface to The Making of Emma, Sue Birtwistle & Susie Conklin mention that they received thousands of letters about P&P2. I am certain many of them would include a comment about the lack of a kiss or touch following the second proposal. [We think we nitpick P&P2. One horticulturalist's letter commented on a variety of rosebush in the movie that wasn't introduced in England until 1830!]"}, {"response": 39, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (17:50)", "body": "okay, okay, okay, I'm starting to give (perhaps a very little) just because they meant to leave us wanting more, doesn't mean I have to like it! (and it doesn't mean he didn't actually kiss her. I think you hit it, Megan, that the contrast is simply too great between his leaning down (to kiss her!) and the platonic walk down the lane. I'll drop it so long as Cheryl doesn't say \"told you so\""}, {"response": 40, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:34)", "body": "Cindy,I'll just say that it looked very much to me that he really wanted to kiss her. Another fact is that in S&S nobody was kissed at all.Edward didn't kiss Elinor, and Col Brandon didn't kiss Marianne. Did anyone notice that? The first kiss I saw (after P&P2) was in Persuasion and was very surprised at that."}, {"response": 41, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:44)", "body": "As Emma Thompson said in her diaries from S&S, \"Can't rely on Austen for a snog, that's for sure.\" Her screenplay had Elinor & Edward kiss, and her diaries indicate that this scene was actually filmed. But it didn't make it to the final cut."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (00:43)", "body": "Cindy: I'll drop it so long as Cheryl doesn't say \"told you so\" Cindy dear, I should not dream of it. I am much too well-bred."}, {"response": 43, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (02:01)", "body": "Cheryl, you are not a ratbag. (I don't care what anybody says!)"}, {"response": 44, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:56)", "body": "Cheryl, can't you come out to L.A. tomorrow to join Anna P., Joan, & I? It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity!!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (23:03)", "body": "I'd love to, had hoped to when Anna and I first talked about this months ago, but this is Palm Sunday coming up and I have a ton of rehearsals for my choir's Easter Cantata in my church...have fun and give us a full report!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (05:19)", "body": "Donna, perhaps in S&S, there was a serious lack of chemistry between the pairs, excepting Marianne and Willoughby. Marianne had 'settled' for Col. Brandon and Col. Brandon knew he was being settle for; Edward was engaged to Lucy and one can only imagine that he was 'in-love' with Lucy at some point of that engagement and then to have him 'saved' from it by her running off with his brother. He then has licence to turn to Elinor, with an open heart, but I find it difficult to see attraction between the pa r since she is all restrain and he is all duty."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:23)", "body": "Has any one got pictures of that moment when Darcy leans over, and the kiss in the carriage?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (20:16)", "body": "This one?"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (20:54)", "body": "Well done, Candace! Where did you get this shot from?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (09:32)", "body": "Serana- Re:Lacking Chemistry-do you mean has actors or fictional characters?"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "Is that a makeup line at his jaw? I always wondered about it. Thanks"}, {"response": 52, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (12:31)", "body": "Well, he has his eyes closed :)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (21:37)", "body": "\"Well done, Candace! Where did you get this shot from?\" I don't remember...either someone posted it on the spring somewhere or at Pemberley."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "Yes, thanks Candace. Now, does anyone have the 'dearest, loveliest' leaning over moment?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (23:51)", "body": "Hil, what did Lori call that? The lip dip?"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (04:24)", "body": "Donna, I meant the fictional characters. On the whole, S&S didn't sizzle in terms of romance for me. I read it and watch it only for Willougby and Marianne, especially when he rides through the night to see if she's alright at the end of the novel. I love the man. Candace, that was marvelous."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (06:31)", "body": "Anne! Is that your way to keep calm? Make-up line! Snort!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (10:27)", "body": "Serana-A kiss between Edward and Elinor would have been great when they are leaving the church,instead he kissed here hand. Yes there wasn't much lust in the movie. The chemistry between Elinor and Edward was that they were so much alike. I just felt that they needed to be together."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (10:53)", "body": "These two:"}, {"response": 60, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "Seems to me all that kissing and physical hanky-panky should be kept to a minimum in any JA adaption. Conflicts with sentiments of a higher nature. Too much physicality in today's films, anyway. I'll allow for maybe one kiss in the streets of Bath as maybe in Persuasion; but that's all."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (12:23)", "body": "Ann - no not really! But I noticed it in the video. Maybe its fixed in the 6 volume set. Wished I had not noticed it. In my mind, Colin Firth doesn't need any makeup!"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (16:04)", "body": "Anne - that's not a make-up line on the video! It's a shadow where his collar stands away from his neck and the lighting is such that the shadow looks like it could be a line between make-up and no make-up.!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Mar 30, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "Agreed, Inko. It disappears as the shot continues. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 193, "subject": "Newcomers, sign in", "response_count": 40, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:13)", "body": "Big welcome Genette, looking forward to sharing similar likings"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Anat", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (01:54)", "body": "Thank you Amy; I couldn't stay the other day b/c it was getting too late, there is a 7 hr difference between eastern time and Israel, so 5 pm your time would be midnigth here. Now I'm writing from my work address, I hope its not confusing. I discovered FOF's about two weeks ago, and from there found a link here, although I can't repete the performance. I am also registering there, and I hope the queen finds me worthy. Robin explained to me the difference between a listserve and a chat, but I guess there is some overlap in participants, since I found some of the names in both the chat and the creative writing at FOFs. I read P&P, Jane Ayre, Wuthering heights and other classics of the English and other literature as a young girl. But I read them in Hebrew and I suspect in an abbriged version.In later years I concentrated on contemporary literature, both in English and in Hebrew, but didnt have much time to read. Watching P&P2 on TV reawakened my interest in the classics, and I decided to read them in English. I regigtered at the British Council library in Tel Aviv, and since last summer have been reading with a vengeanc , like I used to when young. I read all Austen novel, some George Elliot, the Brontes, Thackerey, Fielding and Dickens. My mother, who studied English at the university and is a retired English teacher, also helps me get the books, And there is an English professor at the Open University, where I work, who also wrote a course on JA,and she advises me and guides my reading. The british counsel also has video tapes, not of all the versions, so I can watch tv and movie adaptations of the books I read. It is curious that I was waiting to get the Dalton JE as I found that topic on the chat. That's why I was so anxious to participate before making a proper introduction. As for personal details, I'm 47, married with a son (10) and a daughter (5). My husband accepts my addiction with humor, He liked S&S and P&P2, but was bored with Emma (the movie). A&E Emma didnt arrive here yet, I work as a course editor at the OU of Israel. I think I've said too much already for a start."}, {"response": 3, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (05:15)", "body": "Anat -- it is very nice to meet you. I'm glad you found us, and I trust you will find this a good home away from home. Does the English professor have a favorite Jane Austen novel, or does she like each of the novels in a different way. Welcome, and enjoy yourself!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (07:23)", "body": "I knew you were Israelian! Now you're the third, except from you and me, the other israelian is Adi. There is Dana O, but we don't see her much."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Anat", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (02:06)", "body": "Thanks for your welcome, Kathleen and ayelet. Nili Dingot is the name of the English professor. I'm not sure of her preferences, but I'll ask her.I think she likes each in a different way, as you put it. The course is written in Hebrew and the students read the translation, since its not a course in English literature but general literature, literary criticism and theory etc. The students like P&P best, and when she tried once to teach persuasion, they were bored.Emma is considered the best in terms of s ructure, something like a detective story, with all the clues and misleading info. But shouldn't we discuss it in another topic? How does it work - should I reply only in active topics, for fear that I'll get no response in others?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (02:18)", "body": "Hi Anat. Persuasion boring. Hmmm... were most of the students younger heroine age? No, respond to the topics we've neglected if you like, as well as the active ones. Any new message will show up on our lists as a new response and alert us to look at it."}, {"response": 7, "author": "joanna", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "Leave it to me to go about everything backwards. I've posted a couple of comments before introducing myself. I am almost intimidated by the creditials of the group and the international-ness of it all. I am a librarian at a small college in West Virginia who is most grateful to have found an outlet for her newfound obsession with P&P2. I had enjoyed Jane Austin in college as an English major, and am currently rediscovering the joys of reading her work. Hello to you all!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (13:29)", "body": "Welcome Joanna. We got no credentials! Glad to have another addict. And another librarian."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (14:36)", "body": "Credentials? We don't need no stinkin' credentials! ;-p"}, {"response": 10, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (14:47)", "body": "Hi Joanna, and welcome. Have you heard about the July 13 get together in DC? (We are discussing it on the Darcy in DC topic.) I live in Frostburg, MD -- how far away in WV are you?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Genette", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "Thank you all (especially Kathleen, Susan, Cheryl and Johanne) for the warm welcome. I look forward to getting to know all of you better! :)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Belle", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (00:47)", "body": "I know I should have done this much earlier, but I guess I'll have to go along with one of the old cliches on this one: \"better late than never.\" I can't tell you how thrilled I am to have found this outlet for my obsession with P&P2! I must admit that I am totally addicted to it! I also adore Colon Firth. Anyway, enough of the painfully obvious :-), I guess I should tell you a little bit about myself... I am currently a Senior at Coronado High School in Coronado, California (Coronado is an island in San Diego Bay) and will be attending Harvey Mudd College in Claremont, California next year. I know it's a wierd name, for every time I tell someone that I am going to Harvey Mudd College, they follow up with the same question \"Harvey who?\" Anyway, it's a very, very good school and there I'll be studying to be an engineer. But don't think that just because I'll be pursuing a career in the math and science ield that I'll neglect my love of literature (obviously Jane Austen is my favorite author). I have always loved reading and this summer I intend to read the ever increasing stacks of books on my nightstand that are homeless due to my overcrowded bookshelves. Among those authors whose works I have read and enjoyed (other than Jane Austen) are Alexandre Dumas, the Bronte sisters, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Charles Dickens, Edith Wharton, George Eliot, Kate Chopin, William Thackery, and Samuel Richardson. I suppose that's enough about me for now, but I am so glad that I have found this refuge for my hopeless addiction - THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (01:25)", "body": "You are very welcome Laura! Your fave authors list rings a bell and about those overcrowded bookshelves, mine are just as 'bad' and being a librarian I have the everyday temptation of old and new books appearing in front of my eyes. And though I only bring home one out of ten that I would just love to read...I often have to return them unread.:-("}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (02:53)", "body": "Welcome, and thanks for coming out, Laura. I know you've been around for months."}, {"response": 15, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (05:34)", "body": "Hi Laura -- welcome \"home away from home.\" I didn't realize there was a high school on Coronado Island. (I've been to San Diego numerous times to visit family.) You are not alone in your combination of technical/literary loves -- I teach mathematics & actuarial science at a small university in Maryland but my passion for Jane Austen's books goes back to age 13. Nice to meet you."}, {"response": 16, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (12:43)", "body": "]this summer I intend to read the ever increasing stacks of books on my nightstand that are homeless due to my overcrowded bookshelves. Hmmm... Wonder where I've heard about such a diffuculty before... Couldn't be from my own abundant personal experience, could it?? Naaahh..."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (14:01)", "body": "Laura, what type of engineering?? I just got my masters in civil (structural) engineering last year. Both Henry and I also have physics undergrads, so you are certainly not alone here."}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (20:10)", "body": "This just in: Please help us. We are collectors of an illustrator named Harrison Fisher and we would love to have a place to talk about him and collecting in general. We all live far apart, Alaska, South Carolina, New York, Cal. and many more. The spring seemed like an ideal place to meet and talk. Can you help? I would love to have this as a subject on your conference board. I am unable to make my own web site so I was hoping that you would help. I am having problems with my email so please let me know if you got this. Thank you. Emma Hudson mailto://Eustacia@hotmail.com Would someone like to volunteer as a \"big sister\" to help Emma get started?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Belle", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (22:20)", "body": "Thanks Ann (both of you!), Kathlene, and Henry! I am really glad to be here! It's nice to know that others share my problems about an overcrowded library! In answer to your question, Ann, I will be studying for a general engineering degree. Basically, Harvey Mudd will teach me about all kinds of engineering so I can apply myself in whatever area I feel comfortable in (not to mention that I'll (hopefully) be able to apply my knowledge of different areas of engineering in whatever I do after college). You know, Kathlene, I have been coming to Coronado since I was about five years old to visit my Grandparents, and until two years ago, when my Mom and I moved down here, I had no idea that there was a High School here either! Thank you all for your warm welcome - it means a lot!!:-)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "LaDemoiselle", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (19:07)", "body": "(Like Joanna) ]Leave it to me to go about everything backwards. I've posted a couple of comments before introducing myself. I am the unemployed (looking for work) \"Gen-X\" artist living in D.C. I lived in Europe for four years to study art and now I've been in reverse culture shock for the last 2 years. I actually began to read JA early last year (I've had the name nagging in my brain since high school-I decided to finally discover what the rage was all about). I became a enthralled with JA's books, esp. when I saw A&E's P&P last year.(And I was even more interested in watching it since I found out Colin Firth was in it--I had \"discovered\" Colin Firth many years ago when I first saw Lost Empires on PBS. I am a great reader of literature in general, but at this moment I am a P&P addict..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (19:38)", "body": "Welcome, LaDemoiselle. Sounds like you are in the right place to work on that addiction! I've enjoyed your postings, so it's nice to \"meet\" as it were. Will we see you on July 13 at the Willard Hotel?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "Welcome LaDemoiselle. Whereabouts do you live in D.C. I'm in Bethesda, just 2 miles from the District line! Hope you'll join the crowd at the Willard Hotel for tea on July 13."}, {"response": 23, "author": "kjones", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (02:04)", "body": "Hello all! It's nice to see that there are other JA fans out there! I first read P&P when I was 10 and now that I am 28 - it's still my favorite! A&E's production was brilliant! I didn't think any one could do justice to the book but, alas, I was wrong! I am an RN in Gettysburg, PA who is trying to find time to reread the JA collection. It's been Years. Has anyone read Juvenalia? I never knew it existed until recently (and believe ot or not, I have a BA in English Lit). Any ideas where I could find a copy? I look foward to talking to you all soon in the Pemberly chat room and learning more about the Spring bulletin board. I am new to the internet, so I am counting on my fellow JA addicts to guide me through!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (02:46)", "body": "Most welcome, Kathleen! You will find everyone here to be friendly and willing to help you out in any way possible -- it's a great place to hang!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (07:55)", "body": "Kathleen - first check you local book stores. There are several new paper backs out with the unfinished novels, letters, and juvenilia. the stores can order them for you. you can find them on the web at amazon books (www.amazon.com) or bookserve (www.bookserve.com). Or you can get to know Jane Austen books in chicago. e-mail at JABOOKS@aol.com Amy - you really must get these people to advertise here!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (08:41)", "body": "I am thinking about some things, Katy. Probably not advertising."}, {"response": 27, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (13:24)", "body": "Kathleen, a lot of the Juvenilia is on-line; see http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/juviscrp.html and http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janewrit.html#juvie"}, {"response": 28, "author": "EmilyinFlorida", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (13:32)", "body": "Hi! I'm new here and just wanted to say hey. I'm really glad I found this place! I was beginning to think there were no other Jane Austen freaks around!! Pride and Prejudice is my favorite movie of all times! I'm hooked--I haven't watched it in 2 weeks and I think I'm starting to get withdrawls. I just finished reading the sequel by Emma Tennant. I wasn't too impressed with it--Are there are any good sequels out there? Is Darcy's Story good? Well, hope to talk to someone soon! ~Emily"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (13:47)", "body": "Hi Emily. Welcome. Check out the Darcy's Story and sequels topics. Some of the Darcy's Story stuff is already archived (join the AustenArchive conference to read the earlier remarks)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "EmilyinFlorida", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:02)", "body": "Thanks Amy! I'll be sure to check it out!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "EmilyinFlorida", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:03)", "body": "Thanks Amy! I'll be sure to check it out!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (18:36)", "body": "Welcome Kathleen and Emily. Kathleen, if you are in Gettysburg, why not come down to D.C. on July 13 and join a crowd of us addicts for tea at the Willard Hotel - at 3 p.m. See the \"Darcy in D.C.\" topic. The more the merrier!!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "kjones", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (01:11)", "body": "hey Guys - thanks for all the hints on finding juvenalia - can't wait to start exploring! I'm thinking about tea in DC - sounds promicing - I'll have too figure out if I'm working that weekend. Would anyone be opposed to me bringing some friends / relatives who are fellow JA fans?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "AnnieC", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (11:20)", "body": "Dear, Dear sisters, Pleeeeeze forgive my visiting you all without a proper introduction, how rude of me and you have all been so kind too! My name is Anne, but everyone calls me Annie and it seems to avoid confusion with all of my \"Ann and Anne\" commrades. I live in Arkansas and love Jane Austen. I started reading her novels in high school and love the characters in her stories and enjoy reading them over and over. I am also an enormous fan of P&P2! I had seen Colin Firth in CoF but he gave me the creeps as Simon, but when I saw him as Darcy, WELL!! Let's just say he gave me a whole new \"appreciation\" for his \"talents\"! What a MAN!!! I went back to college to finish my degree in Elementary Ed. and stay busy taking care of my two little boys as well. I am so glad to have found a place to share my (dare, I say it?) obsession (there, wasn't too hard) with someone else. Thank you again for all you kindness and hospitality."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (12:18)", "body": "Thanks for telling us about yourself, Annie. I have two boys too, not so little now, which both good and sad."}, {"response": 36, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (12:28)", "body": "Kathleen, Emily, AnneC and all, warm welcome and please indulge in this passion, it's most enjoyable :)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "joanna", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "It is great to see more new fans joining us. I was certain I was the very last to discover this wonderful place. I am not far from D.C., located in the southern-most part of W.Va., but family obligations make it impossible to attend what is probably going to be a glorious time! I'll certainly be there in spirit."}, {"response": 38, "author": "EmilyS", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (16:17)", "body": "Inko, Johanne and Amy, Thanks for the welcoming! I needed to find this place before I went crazy with my addiction! I really like the discussions too--it fun to pick the book and the movie apart! I'm working on a sequel right now(who isnt?!)I hope to have it done aleast by I'm 20.(I'm 15 now) I takes me a while to get the exact words on paper. Well, Bye!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Darcyfan", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (14:50)", "body": "Welcome to all you newcomers...glad you found your way! Emily and Annie....great to have more Southern Ladies on board! Look forward to talking more with you in the Pemberley Genette....We will have to talk...I work at a church outside Atlanta....do you work for a major Christian publisher? Welcome in the group!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Derek", "date": "Thu, May 22, 1997 (05:49)", "body": "Many years ago I signed up for an aerobics class. When I turned up I was the only man there! I feel a bit like that now. Anyway, who is this interloper? I'm Derek Pollard. I have just left a large Corporation and set myself up as a Management Consultant. I had never read Austen until several people told me (in 1980) that I looked like a Mr Darcy on the TV. Naturally I wanted to know whether this was an insult or a compliment so I tuned into a repeat of the first episode of the Elizabeth Garvie/David Rinto l version. I read the book immediately because I couldn't wait six weeks to know whether it all turned out well. From then on I was hooked and must have reread that book at least a dozen times ( I rarely reread any novels). Fifteen years later came P&P2. It was a magnificent production but not without its flaws (see my proposals for new topics). It is great to find a group of people who love JA as much as I do and I look forward to many interesting discussions in the future. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 194, "subject": "Rambo III (ramble)", "response_count": 72, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (16:02)", "body": "Started a new topic for The English Patient"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "I too would rather have seen the focus of the movie be on Kip and Hana. Their relationship was much much more interesting to me than Almasy's and Katherine's. They were more the focus of the book, but I guess the adapters decided they weren't as interesti ng, or that it would be harder to focus the film on them (it would have been less picturesque)."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "Here is a totally useless ramble with absolutely no point, except within my own head, but I'm not going to divulge the point to you!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 15, 1997 (23:16)", "body": "Oh dear, Ann has been in Minnesota in the winter for too, too long!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (04:28)", "body": "My brain hurts."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (10:05)", "body": "Kali, I feel for you! Finals over yet?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "It was a nice (though chilly) weekend in DC. I saw my little brother on Friday, and we went to 2 museums, and walked my feet off! We saw an exhibit on the 1936 Berlin Olympics at the Holocaust Museum that was very well done -- very moving and informativ e. Then we went to the Sackler Museum of Asian Art (one of the two underground museums on the mall). Dinner with my brother and his colleagues at an Ethiopian restaurant, then back to my friends' apartment. Yesterday I got to Borders Bookstore (I should never be allowed in a bookstore or hardware store with a credit card!). What a nice visit and shoppi ng trip. The only bad thing about the whole weekend was there was nobody to talk to about Jane Austen adaptations and such. It is good to be back."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (13:56)", "body": "Aww. Do you do office supply stores, too, Inko?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (13:57)", "body": "I mean kath leen . Geez. Please forgive me."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:04)", "body": "While kathleen has happily traded her solitude for the company of relatives, I joyfully take my children to the airport within the hour!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (14:10)", "body": "Spring brake Amy?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (17:01)", "body": "Kathleen, did you go to the Borders at White Flint Mall in MD? I can spend hours and hours there and usually do! It's a great place if you are waiting for a table at the Cheesecake Factory! Next time you're here I'll give you my phone # - we can always get together for an Austen binge!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "Inko: the Borders at White Flint Mall in MD Yes, indeed. I also stopped at Chapters on K Street (close to the hotel my brother was staying at) -- I bought a total of nine books this trip, which is not a record, but should be! Another time, I may have to call you just to hear about all of our Austen conference friends! Maybe, though, it's good to test myself away from this place. After all, I may have to be away from a computer on some of my other vacation/work trips. :-) ( Where was the tertiary addiction site that Henry had?)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (19:50)", "body": "Yes, but now I have no brakes. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (20:54)", "body": "The one thing I dread about my long trip to England this summer is being away from my computer! Just to think - 7 weeks away - how will I ever bear it? Last summer I was not yet on the Internet and didn't know what I was missing! I'll just have to find a cybercafe in London - I know they have them there!!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (21:04)", "body": "Amy -- be careful, without brakes you will have to watch for speed bumps! Inko -- cybercafes in London, huh? I may have to check that out."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (21:11)", "body": "Maybe Bernie could find out something about the interuniversity network for you."}, {"response": 18, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (16:20)", "body": "Happy St. Patrick's Day to All!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Becks", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (23:36)", "body": "I know how you feel Inko--three months for me"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (23:56)", "body": "Does Adi still visit here? Thinking of you, Adi, after this past weekend."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (00:16)", "body": "Thanks, Caroline...midterms over, paper left to finish! Ugh! Actually, though, the brain comment was re: the conversation on this tres intellectual thread! ;) --- Chevy Chase?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "jennyh", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (12:32)", "body": "This may not be right place to post this article, but here it goes. (I and my hubby were amuzed at different parts, but then again I find myself to have unusal sense of humor.) Some psychologists believe spending too much time online can lead to a clinically diagnosable Internet \"addiction\". And several are offering counseling specifically for people who are inextricabley tangled in the WWW. .......a survey if students..of 387 who said they log on at least once a week, 13% met criteria for addition, including tolerance (requireing longer periods of time to achieve satisfaction) and withdrawal (depression, moodiness, or irritability when off-l ine). The problem is not confiend to campuses. .... identified 400 people she described as \"Internet dependent\". Woman made up 60%, and averaged 43 years of age, compared with 29 for men. Dependents averaged 38.5 hours a week online, largely in \"chatr oms,\"......like alcoholics, many in her sample had tried unsuccessfully to quit. Some threw out their modems, then bought new ones. Like other addicts, they reported that their compulsion also interfered with work, finances, and relationships. ... lists her cirteria for Internet addiction at http://www.pitt.edu/~ksy/ . I guess I am one of those out-of-control people, but I do NOT want to be cured. (now I feel bad.......)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (12:37)", "body": "Well, Jenny - you know the first step is admitting you *have* a problem.... ;) I don't want a cure, either!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (13:39)", "body": "We never did finish the 12 steps. Anybody want to jump back in an suggest a contribution? AA's 12 steps Our steps so far"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:14)", "body": "] Woman made up 60%, and averaged 43 years of age, Oh no! there's that magic number again! But I will be off the hook come the end of June."}, {"response": 26, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (03:37)", "body": "Just a quick note to say that I will probably be mostly invisible until Sunday - am off to my conference in Los Angeles in the morning..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (04:15)", "body": "I have noticed your absence for days already, Joan. I thought maybe you'd gone already. Say hi to Anna and Amy2."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (11:00)", "body": "Have fun! ;)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Becks", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (00:30)", "body": "Have a blast, and tell all when you get back!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (01:30)", "body": "Happy trip Joan. Your garden will have gone through some magical changes when you return!! I've got my first Iris too now.Deep blue with yellow marks on the petals, in a pattern resembling a tiny feather. Don't remember it's name ..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (05:35)", "body": "My yard is once again covered with snow. Oh well, the flowers will be here soon, I just know it!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (14:09)", "body": "To follow our fashion discussion in Steven Waddington's drool topic : Amy and HC, here is probably want comes close to what I mean, many I have are not already scanned it would require a device of some sort, I believe, but not a mention in any of the books I have home, further research will be needed. As mentionned, only a phrase stipulating a lady bearing that name would know how skillfully and gracefully lift her trained skirt with one hand the other in her partner's hand when dancing a waltz."}, {"response": 33, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (14:11)", "body": "But it doesn't sound right, her skirt should be hanging from her wrist, the one in her partner's, the other on partner's shoulder, no?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (15:04)", "body": "We shall work this out."}, {"response": 35, "author": "kate", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "I have this vague idea that she wouldn't have her hand on his shoulder at all. She would have her right hand in his and her left hand holding her skirt. His left hand would hold hers, and his right hand would be at her waist. The lady placing her hand on his shoulder is a more recent development?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (17:09)", "body": "I think you are right, Kate. It seems like I've seen movies in which the lady even just sort of extends her arm out a little to the side without even grasping her skirt."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (17:13)", "body": "Oh man. An exceedingly rare (for these parts) case of Spring cleaning hit my house today -- albeit only parts or aspects of one room. I even was motivated to yank a heat register out of the floor and scrub it up. I wore some paint off. Thank the ever blessed and merciful godess of moderation and her little helper fairies for forcibily restraining me when I got a ridiculous urge to parint the thing."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (00:22)", "body": "I can't believe this! The !@#%^$^! jerks who run the university servers are cutting account disk quotas by two-thirds! I saw the message upon login, and laughed out loud! It's hard enough for me to keep my disk usage down as it is...DAMN! Not like they're registering new accounts for the uclink machine...they haven't in three years. Thank goodness for the ocf..."}, {"response": 39, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (04:42)", "body": "What's your quota at now, Kali?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (14:18)", "body": "It's NCAA tournament time (when 64 of our colleges best basketball teams play for the championship)---GO BIG BLUE!!!!! I brought this up just so I could say how impressed I was with the University of Kentucky's coach, Rick Pitino. Kentucky's best player wrecked his knee in January but has, it was determined this week, fully recovered. At least 8 doctors have examined him and they all conclude that he is fit to play. A yes! moment for us Big Blue fans, because another player was lost this week to injury and the rest of the team (only 8 guys) is pretty banged up. Pitino, after some soul-searching, announced that he woul NOT play Anderson. He said that he would not/could not put Anderson's future as a pro player in jeopardy, even if it means that Kentucky will not win the championship this year, as they did last year. Kentucky fans expect their team to win it all every year because it is one of the best quality programs in the country. Now I know for sure that the coach is of the best quality, too! sorry for rambling about sports, but I remember all of that Super Bowl nonsense. . . . ;-)"}, {"response": 41, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "Meggin, I am impressed with this, too. Coachamania starts very early, as I have seen with some of my son's involvement, so his putting it aside for the greater good of his student is certainly to be Ramble-worthy"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "Terry, to answer your question: Disk quota information for account dxiechkn: File system: /tmp Purpose: temporary files Usage: 4 kilobytes. Quota: 10000 Absolute limit: 100000 Quota status: under quota File system: /h/uclink_c Purpose: home directory and mail folders except inbox Usage: 1409 kilobytes. Quota: 500 Absolute limit: 5000 Quota status: *** over quota *** File system: /var/spool/mail Purpose: mail inbox Usage: 1840 kilobytes. Quota: 15000 Absolute limit: 20000 All I can say is GO BEARS!!!! First time in the Elite Eight since the sixties...:)"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (17:54)", "body": "Minnesota, hats off to thee. To our colors true we shall ever be. Firm and strong, United are we. Rah Rah Rah for sky-u-mah! Rah Rah Rah for sky-u-mah! Rah for the U of M! Go Minnesota Golden Gophers!!!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (19:02)", "body": "Ann, you'll be pleased to know that my son and a family friend are going to the final game tomorrow afternoon. (Look for the blond 10-yr-old that looks like me.) ;-) They'll be cheering for your favorite rodents, er rather, gophers. ;-)"}, {"response": 45, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (19:10)", "body": "Texas is going for the elite 8 against Louisville right now. Go horns!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (19:21)", "body": "Hook 'em!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (19:40)", "body": "37-31 UT with about a minute left in the half."}, {"response": 48, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (02:40)", "body": "I'll be incommunicado for a few days. It's Spring Break (yay, no lessons for a week), and I'm heading out to visit friends. In fact, I have to leave soon -- it's a 2-1/2 hour drive to Dulles airport, and I have a 7 am flight. I \"see\" you all late Tuesday/early Wednesday. P.S. Save some Cold Comfort Farm discussion for me. (There's always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm.)"}, {"response": 49, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (09:49)", "body": "Just to add a little international flavour to this CARN THE MAGGIES!!! (Just to translate: Carn is an Australianism meaning come on, which is usually said at high volume at a football match. The kind of football being discussed is Australian rules, which is unlike soccer, rugby, or that strange thing you call football in the US, which as far as I can see doesn't involve feet touching the ball at all. The Maggies, (Magpies) are Collingwood, so called because like Magpies (an Aus. bird) their colours are black and white. Collingwood is, of course the greatest team, and Col ingwood barrackers (ie supporters) are totally one-eyed (can't see the good in any other team - so everyone hates us and we love it))"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (09:57)", "body": "Australian rules is pretty rough, isn't it Kate?"}, {"response": 51, "author": "kate", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (16:26)", "body": "No where near as violent as rugby, or American football for that matter. It is very fast moving - not so much use of sheer physical force to get the ball. They jump really high to catch it in their hands - it's very exciting to watch."}, {"response": 52, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (16:41)", "body": "Well, then, Carn the Maggies, it is! :-)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (16:56)", "body": "and Go, gophers! - hey, Ann?"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (19:37)", "body": "LOL Kate! Was that like explaining a joke? I agree AFL is not nearly as rough as rugby, and a good spectator game because its fast moving and flows well, and the marking (the high jumps to catch to ball) is spectacular. Also the players physiques are generally tall and fairly lean, and for some reason I don't understand they wear shorts so tight you would swear they were going to split. Interesting article in the paper yesterday about how promoters have realised that televised sport can play a role similar to soap operas. They think that many people who watch sport kid themselves they are watching to appreciate the skill and techniques, whereas they are getting as bound up emotionally as some people do in soap operas. One-day cricket, because of pace, the time aspects, personalities and range of drama, is seen as the epitome of this. And for this reason, promoters think one-day cricket ould be marketable in the States!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (22:42)", "body": "GO BIG BLUE!!!!! Git them yellar squirrels! ;-)"}, {"response": 56, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "Wildcats Forever!!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (00:35)", "body": "Minnesota Golden Gophers are in the final four!!!!! why anyone would choose a chipmunk for a mascot is beyond me! (although they do run all over the campus.)"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (01:30)", "body": "Man, we choked last night...what a disappointment! Oh well...'twas supposed to be a \"building year\" anyway... \"On our rugged eastern foothills, Stands our symbol clear and bold (bold, bold, bold!)... Big C means to fight and strive and win for blue and gold ... Golden Bear is ever-watching, day by day he prowls... And when he hears the tread of lowly Stanfurd red , From his lair he fiercely growls! (What's he say? He sez:) GRRRRAH! GRRRRAH! GRRRR-GRRRR-GRRRR-RAH!!! We are sons of California, Fighting for the gold and blue ... Palms of glory we will win for alma mater true... Stanfurd's men will soon be routed, by our dazzling C ! And when we serpentine, their red will turn to GREEN ... In our hour of victory!\" GO BEARS!!!!!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (01:32)", "body": "Oh, in case you're wondering, most of our fight songs involve crushing Stanford...no one else really matters...;)"}, {"response": 60, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (02:51)", "body": "I have noticed your absence for days already, Joan. I thought maybe you'd gone already. No - was inundated with IEPs to write the week in advance of leaving. Playing catch-up tonight... Your garden will have gone through some magical changes when you return!! I'm sure it has - but must wait till it gets light to see in what manner. :-) I've got my first Iris too now.Deep blue with yellow marks on the petals, in a pattern resembling a tiny feather. Sounds like Dutch Iris - does it resemble this in general shape and form?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (06:58)", "body": "Hey, you are back. Tell us about your rendezvous, where you like old friends?"}, {"response": 62, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (07:58)", "body": "I want the camera, Joan. What an image."}, {"response": 63, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "]the players physiques are generally tall and fairly lean, and for some reason I don't understand they wear shorts so tight you would swear they were going to split. Hilary, you found out why I REALLY like watching the footy. And yes is was rather like explaining a joke, but I'm getting quite good at that!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (13:42)", "body": "LOL Kate! To my way of thinking they beat Rugby physiques anyday! BTW, I was telling my husband that someone here was an Australian in NYS, and this just tripped off his tongue (apologies.... understand we had been imbibing wine and chocolate!) An Australian woman called Kate Went looking in search of a mate She scoured the whole land But the males were too bland So she said 'Stuff it! I'll try New York State'."}, {"response": 65, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:31)", "body": "LOL Hil. Perhaps a little too close to the truth!!! Canberra's a hopeless place to be single... ] they beat Rugby physiques anyday! Give me those long legs over those thick necks and cauliflower ears"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:42)", "body": "Several of us were thinking about having an Oscar Party tomorrow night. Anyone interested? The telecastbegins at 6pm PST, so shall we start gathering about 5:30 at Pemberley? See you there...I hoping that Ralph will be in his tux and Kenneth in his undershirt...;-)"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:45)", "body": "Man, I'm at home and Netscape doesn't work on my dad's machine...so that means that aol will keep me from hanging out with you..."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:52)", "body": "I'll drop in if I can, Cheryl."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (18:42)", "body": "I'll try and drop in for a bit Cheryl, but it starts at 9 p.m. here and won't be over till after midnight!!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "I want the camera, Joan. What an image. It can be yours for a mere $600+. ;-) I'm at home and Netscape doesn't work on my dad's machine...so that means that aol will keep me from hanging out with you... Why won't it work? Is it a memory problem? Do you want a copy of the 2.02 installer via e-mail? I have it at school, since that is what we are using there because most of our computers don't have enough memory to run 3.0"}, {"response": 71, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (20:09)", "body": "Tell us about your rendezvous, where you like old friends? Indeed, we sat so long yacking in the restaurant that the waiter kept making passes by our table making ever-so-discrete suggestions that we might be ready to pay our bill and leave."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (18:18)", "body": "Thanks, Joan...actaully, it was a problem with the dialer preferences which was making Netcom inaccessible...so I had to use my dad's aol connection...I found a way to minimize memory usage while on aol, so I can open netscape. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 196, "subject": "Austen rakes and wolves and why we love/hate them...", "response_count": 68, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Mar 16, 1997 (10:28)", "body": "Glad you suggested Lady Susan. I have known two Lady Susans in my life, though neither was such an awful mother, just femmes fatales.Watching them in operation was really educational! But they were fun to be around. And the interesting thing was that one of them, at least, wastrying hard to be a moral person-it's almost as if the world would not let her."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (00:11)", "body": "In some ways, Lady Susan reminds me of Scarlett O'Hara...she's a much meaner, more intellectual version. --- An observation: Isn't it interesting how Austen gives us the evil \"villains\" on one side and then the flaky and contemptible rakes on the other? Usually the \"villain\" is a female and the rakes are men. In general, it's the female \"villains\" which are most perniciously dangerous, while the male rakes are merely selfish and/or ineffectual. One offsets the force of the other, maintaining a relatively high level of \"hatability\" without making one character into a colossally-hyperbolic fairy-tale witch or monster (how much fun is it to read Lady Susan in comparison to the other novels for most people?). Without considering lesser characters who take part in the instigation of trouble, a successful pattern of two-pronged troublemaking emerges: S&S Fanny (& Lucy) / Willoughby (Both Fanny and Lucy have different forms of control which affect the happiness of our protagonists, but they become representative of the same evil. Fanny's power is monetary, Lucy's is that of prior claim to Edward - but both function as block's to Elinor's marital happiness. The two of them even form an ironic little anti-Dashwood alliance for a period of time.) P&P Caroline (& Lady Catherine) / Wickham (Lady C.'s actual power is minimal, though Caroline's influence over Bingley re: Jane presents a very real threat) Emma Mrs. E / Frank (both of these characters are pretty mild examples. Mr. Elton might qualify as Mrs. E's junior partner in crime) MP Mrs. Norris / Henry C. (Henry Crawford is a borderline villain...until he goes nuts and runs off with Maria, you can't decide whether he's dangerous or just a jerk. In any case, he has no control over Fanny's life, and so qualifies as an ineffectual bounder for my purposes) The only story in which she gives us a villain and a bounder in one character is Lady Susan. She's such a hyperbolic character that her influence (esp. over Reginald) is very difficult to believe. In NA, as Cheryl pointed out above, there really is no one \"villain\" we'd like to slap around, but there are plenty of players and snobs. And in Persuasion, we have a few \"villains\" of sorts (negotiable, in the forms of Lady Russell, Sir Walter, Elizabeth, and even Mary), and no rakes - circumstance and situat on takes over where the \"bad\" characters lack true malice. These last two seem to have the most believable examples of sociological \"types\" and human nature. They've also got the least concentrated forms of villainy. Spreading out the guilt, rather than concentrating all the evil/annoyance in one or two characters seems to make for the most believeable character dynamics, in my opinion."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "I wonder under which category Mr. Elliot of Persuasion would fall. He is both villain and rake, but certainly not in the tradition of either Fanny Dashwood or Willoughby. He is enough of a villain in his dealings with the Smith's and his machinations to become Anne's husband to qualify. He also is rakish when you consider his relationship with Mrs. Clay, Elizabeth believes him to be pursuing her and then his open pursuit of Anne. He turns out to be ineffectual in both areas, but then don't all of Austen's villains and rakes? The heroine always manages to endure the villain and see through the rake to get her reward. Justice. Maybe that's one of the things I like about her novels...never though about it like that before..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (14:10)", "body": "Mr Elliot fits in the \"Not just the thing for our girls\" category. I guess I am just putty in JA's capable hands. I always dislike them just as I am supposed to. Take Wickham, Churchill, Crawford? Never liked them from minute one. Not any of them. Not even a little teeny bit."}, {"response": 5, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (15:26)", "body": "Amy -- I see that you are a more discerning first-time reader than I! I liked Wickham at first, because he likes (or seems to like) Elizabeth. Frank Churchill bothered me immediately as did Willoughby, but I must confess that I wanted to like Henry Crawford. (I couldn't approve of his conduct, but I really wanted him to be able to deserve Fanny.) On the other hand, I wanted to smack Darcy the first time we meet him, because he doesn't find Elizabeth handsome enough to dance with. What a dunderhead! But, of course, he redeems himself very quickly. Amy, I love \"Not quite the thing for our girls\" -- that's it, to a T."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "I loathed Henry Crawford from the start. Never much liked Mary either for that matter!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (20:49)", "body": "Yep, forgot to mention Mr. Elliot...yeah, he's a rake...becuase he's to ineffectual to be a villain. He's like Crawford in that he's a danger to weak minds...but to Anne, he is nothing, just as Crawford is to Fanny."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (21:10)", "body": "Nobody has yet mentioned John Thorpe or his sister, Isabella! I dislike both of them intensely; both are self-important, small minded, selfish,lying busybodies!!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (21:16)", "body": "Of course, the Thorpes. Who was it who suggested that John Thorpe would be a used car salesman today? And Isabella(e?) seems like a dumber version of Lucy Steele from S&S."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "Rakes have power only if the protagonists let them . Villains have leverage of their own...so what's Mrs. Elton's power? The power of continual annoyance? The leverage of her husband's hatred of Emma? The fact that despite her unpopularity with some she remains a permanent social fixture by merit of her money and her marriage to the vicar? I'm still having trouble with this one, though I do agree that she is a \"villain,\" but in a more muted form than in the other four stories with true villains...perh ps she is on the same level as Lady Russell? Though her actual power is less, her intentions are not so good..."}, {"response": 11, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Mar 17, 1997 (22:38)", "body": "Oh dear! I confess to liking many of JA's rakes and villians. I like the Crawfords, and I like Frank Churchill. These three seem confused and spoiled but not malicious. As part of the generation that came of age in the 60's and thought it could reinvent morality, I cannot condemm those characters who seem to mean well in their confusion and selfishness. I dislike Willoughby because he makes fun of Col. Brandon. I can forgive Marianne for the same meanness because she was so young, but Willoughby was old enough to know better. I dislike Wickham because he tells hurtful lies and is willing to destroy young women in the name of pleasure, convenience, or personal gain. I think the Thorpes are merely boorish and stupid - the kind of people God provides to allow naive young people like the Morelands lose their naivety without losing anything more important. The Eltons and Aunt Norris and Mr. Elliot kind of make my skin crawl. There is this meanness of spirit about them."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (00:11)", "body": "I love Mary, and I refuse to think for a moment that she could be such an irrational bitch as to admit excitement at Tom's illness for the sake of Edmund's gain, nor can I believe that she would say such off-putting, psycho things to Edmund himself. Perhaps she wouldn't have married Edmund becuase of the money and their different views of morality and reverence, but I can't picture her becoming so suddenly repugnant that a man so much in love with her could shut her out so abruptly. Austen abruptly and nbelievably sacrificed Mary's honor because she figured it would be easier to maintain Fanny's insurmountable moral astuteness and strength than to reconcile us to the fact that Fanny would eventually A) be proved wrong about Mary's character and B) accept Henry once Mary and Edmund got hitched. If Austen had allowed herself more options for Fanny's fate (like oldmaiddom), perhaps the story could have worked both ways - Edmund could have married the woman he loved, Fanny would maintain her integrity, and Henry Crawford could remain the jerk he was meant to be. Henry is too cold and reckless in his dealings with others to be lovable, IMHO...He contrives to make both Maria and julia fall in love with him just to create trouble, and then resolves to trifle with Fanny herself ...like Willoughby, his intentions don't start out good, he gets hooked, then his old tricks come back to ruin everything...he's ultimately harmless re: Fanny, but he's a poisonous snake without the helpless appeal of Willoughby. I do love Frank, though...he's selfish, and his grasp of the situation is myopic, but he loves his Jane, and that's really all that matters. A generally sweet, if careless, kid..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (00:23)", "body": "\"rakes only have power if the protagonists let them..\" I agree-KAli. That reminds me of the famous Elinor Roosevelt quote-no one can make you feel inferior, unless you let them. I never once saw Mr Elliot as a threat to Anne, because she wasn't affected by him. HE had no power over her. Likewise-Fanny and Henry. A individual has the ability to really hurt you if you care about that person, his/her opinion. For me this is best represented by Marianne and Willoughby. Like Mrs J, I too wanted to pluck his heart out!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (02:53)", "body": "Marianne learned, did she not? Fools rush in where angels fear to tread..."}, {"response": 15, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (07:05)", "body": "Emma is a really difficulf case, one may thing Harriet Smith(!) is our villian. I mean, she, like Lucy Steel, wants to marry the man our heroine dearly loves, I don't see what harm Mrs. Elton caused to Emma, Emma didn't like Mr. Elton anyway. In a second thought, maybe our villian can be Jane Fairfax, she did not mean to harm Emma, but I think she somehow did, she was better than Emma, and Emma couldn't bear it, and maybe Emma was afraid that, as Mrs. Weston said, Mr. Knightley is in love with Jane. Sorry for the mess, I'm just thinking out loud."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (09:29)", "body": "Ayelet, I see what you mean. In Emma's mind, for the greater part of the book, Jane Fairfax did haunt her. Of course, it was Emma's error in thinking that made it so, but nonetheless our heroine was made -- or made herself -- at uncomfotable in consequence of another character."}, {"response": 17, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (10:25)", "body": "I think Wickham qualifies as a villain rather than a rake. Trying to elope with Georgiana qualifies as villainish rather than merely rakish, and he did have the power, initially, to seriously mislead Elizabeth. Which leads to an interesting question. If it had not been for Wickham, would E have been quite so prejudiced about D? Would she have seen his real qualities if her initial impressions had not been so clearly confirmed in her mind by Wickham?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "I think you are right, Kate. Lizzy was certainly disposed to find Darcy offensive, but he might have been able to rehabilitate himself in her eyes had not Wickham said, \"Your instincts are right.\" Everybody likes to hear that."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (13:53)", "body": "Kali wrote: \"As part of the generation that came of age in the 60's and thought it could reinvent morality, I cannot condemm those characters who seem to mean well in their confusion and selfishness. \" That seems like a very good clue for why Clinton is doing so well in opinion polls. (Sorry for the politics, I couldn't help myself.)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:03)", "body": "Ann: there are lots of us out there!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "Kate wrote: If it had not been for Wickham, would E have been quite so prejudiced about D? Would she have seen his real qualities if her initial impressions had not been so clearly confirmed in her mind by Wickham? I agree Kate. Lizzie didn't like his behaviour at the Meryton Ball, but I think that eventually she could have forgiven him for that (put it down to a bad day, bad mood, bad dinner, etc.)if Wickham hadn't confirmed all her prejudices. And that made her feel even more clever than before - there's nothing to satisfying as finding out that you've been right all along!!;-) Even when you are totally wrong!!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (18:14)", "body": "Kate: Still, Elizabeth WAS quick to believe Wickham, without knowing who he was (as Amy said, everyone wants to hear what they want to hear)...she allowed him to sway her mind, just as Georgiana (who no doubt knew that her beloved and wise brother had reservations about Wickham's situation) allowed him to persuade her to elope with him (true, she was young and knew not what she was doing, but you'd think that she and her brother, who are probably both to blame for that incident, would have communicated w ll enough on a regular basis to avert such a catastrophe). It's the same story with Lydia...she puts herself in his hands ( and probably has as good a married life with him as she'd have with anyone of her own choosing!). Wickham couldn't have made so much trouble if people weren't so quick to trust him. Back to Elizabeth and Wickham, the fact still remains that Darcy has successfully managed to disattach Bingley from Jane. If Lizzy hadn't learned this from the Col., she would probably have linked the snobby Darcy with the dirty dealings of Caroline and Mrs. Hurst, whose roles in the Jane-Bingley affair she'd long suspected. In short, Elizabeth was determined to dislike Mr. Darcy - for good reason - from the start of their acquaintance."}, {"response": 23, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (21:21)", "body": "I cannot condemm those characters who seem to mean well in their confusion and selfishness But, do selfish people really mean well? I mean, they often say that they mean well, but that only allows them to avoid guilt and responsibility for their selfish actions. [See for example, Caroline Bingley's comment to Elizabeth at the Netherfield ball, \"Excuse my interference. -- It was kindly meant.\" Ha!!] The rakes and wolves are all selfish (and self-centered), and that is why I generally do not like them. The heroes, on the other hand, are generally not selfish. They are good, kind men, and therefore deserve Jane Austen's heroines."}, {"response": 24, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (22:47)", "body": "... seem to mean well ... no, I do not think anyone has ever thought Caroline meant well. But I do not see jealosy or meanness of spirit in the Crawfords or Frank Churchhill. Only a failure to recognize and separate their selfish ends from their general approach to life. None of them have gotten past the 'if I want it, it must be good' stage of human development. They rationalize anything. The worst thing any of them did deliberately was Henry Crawford's exposing the shallowness of Maria Bertrand's affection for Mr. Rushworth (the same thing Capt Tilney did in NA) and the competitiveness of Maria's and Julia's relationship. The rest of it was more muddled thinking. I struggle with the Crawfords and Fanny and Edmund everytime I read MP. Sometimes the Crawfords sparkle bright for me while poor F&E seem dull and lacking in imagination. Other times, the Crawfords look only vain and dangerous, and only Fanny seems to be clear eyed."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (23:00)", "body": "] I struggle with the Crawfords and Fanny and Edmund everytime I read MP. Sometimes the Crawfords sparkle bright for me while poor F&E seem dull and lacking in imagination. Other times, the Crawfords look only vain and dangerous, and only Fanny seems to be clear eyed. __ We've talked about this many times, but it always amazes me how the books change with what you bring to them in different stages of your life."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (00:36)", "body": "I can appreciate both Fanny's clear-sightedness and Mary's lovely personality...and I think both of them could have done better than Edmund. Am I weird?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (00:40)", "body": "Your not wierd. Edmund isn't much of a character."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (00:53)", "body": "Kathleen - Loved your Darcy dunderhead comment; those were my exact initial sentiments about the man. I'm still considering how to classify villians in Emma (rakes yes but villians are hard). Post more later."}, {"response": 29, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (05:46)", "body": "I agree that selfish people aren't necessarily mean-spirited, but the effects they have on others can be much the same. Henry Crawford may only expose Maria's and Julia's faults, but the effects are not much different than if he had intended to be cruel. A less selfish person might try to bring out the best in others, not the worst. Even Emma is selfish or at least very self-centered throughout most of her novel. She is kind to her father, loves her friends, and even does charitable works for the poor, but she still seems to have a serious \"I\" problem. And, Emma does cause pain to others. She could have ruined Harriet's future with her ideas about whom to marry. And she definitely caused pain for Jane Fairfax with the Dixon idea -- even if she did not intend to, Emma (& Frank) were clearly causing discomfort for Jane. The proposal, when Emma decides to risk being hurt by befriending Mr Knightley, is the first time she really deserves him (at a point when she thinks she has lost him). She even reasons to herself that perhaps she can help him decide to marry Harriet; every time I reread this part it makes me cheer for Emma. She has finally grown up! With most of the other selfish characters, however, we do not see them grow up. They regret their actions only if it causes themselves to lose something or someone. Maybe that's why I don't really ever like them, they don't really learn."}, {"response": 30, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (07:43)", "body": "Perhaps we're having trouble identifying villains in Jane Austen's novels because there really aren't any. As in life, where we rarely (thank God) run into truly malevolent people, so it is in life according to Jane. The obstacles her characters face are frequently of their own device or caused by unthinking or selfish actions of others rather than the result of conscious evil-doing."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (10:59)", "body": "You're right, Myretta, in that nobody's that bad (except LS!)...but there are people with power who won't hesitate to make our protagonists' lives miderable, for whatever reason. As far as our trouble identifying Mrs. Elton's power, perhaps Kathleen is right in identifying Emma's own worst enemy - herself! SHe causes trouble where there shouldn't be any!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (12:56)", "body": "Give Emma credit, though, she recognizes that she's been a blind fool. I agree-nobody's really that bad in Austen-weak(like Edmund-yes MAry and FAnyy could have done a lot better. I still cringe at the proposal scene.) silly, vain, pompous(Sir Walter, LAdy Catherine), unprincipled/selfish(Mr Elliot, Wickham, Willoughby-Poor MArianne she did suffer most cruelly. And yes she learned the hard way, but even we Mariannes have to grow up)and generally irritating, full of their own misguided sense of importance( e: Mr and Mrs E). But, as for pure evil(Aunt Norris is close though)-read Henry James-Madmae Merle in Portrait. That's evil. She deliberatley plots to manipulate/destroy Isabel's life for her own selfish ends."}, {"response": 33, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (17:01)", "body": "The older I get, the less of a catch Edmund seems to be for any one. But Fanny adores him and will make him a good wife. And it is unlikely that she ever could have loved anyone else as much. She deserves him because she wnats him so much. Sometimes Henry Crawford looks as bad to me as he does to Fanny. Other times, he reminds me so much of people I have known and loved - full of energy and charm and so cynical that they have to learn everything the hard way. I am thankful to live in a society where it is possible to learn from one's mistakes and reshape one's life. Some of my favorite people would have been condeemed, by the errors of their youth, to live out their lives in small isolated country houses or gratefully giving \"good dinner \" to anyone who would associate with them."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (00:07)", "body": "I am thankful to live in a society where it is possible to learn from one's mistakes and reshape one's life. AMEN, Katy -- I'm afraid I might have been giving \"good dinner\" myself..."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (14:44)", "body": "I agree with Myretta, and with Kathleen. I think what defines the baddies, and they are only everyday baddies, is their varying degrees of unawareness, and their overt and apalling selfishness. The goodies are not selfless, they look after their own needs, but they also are aware of and take care of the people around them."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:09)", "body": "The goodies are not selfless, they look after their own needs, but they also are aware of and take care of the people around them. Eventually they get a clue about doing right by deserving others...that's what makes them \"good.\" I once said that the remarkable characters stand apart because they come to understand their iniquities, and attempt to reform themselves: Lizzy, Darcy, Emma, Marianne - even Anne, who reevaluates past decisions - are forced to acknowledge their own harmful weaknesses. And I agree that nothing in Austen is cut-and-dried...however, I do contend that though it be madness, yet there be method in it...there seems to be a bit of a pattern (perhaps logic is a better term) which rules the nature and level of villainy...the least believeable story (LS) has one truly evil villain, and the most believeable (characterwise) have a very diffuse sort of obstructionist antagonism. In the middle, we got a dichotomous sort of antagonism, with a powerful (or powerfully annoying concentration of antagonism on one side, and a siren-like but functionally blameless concentration of rakish distraction on the other."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:10)", "body": "The goodies are not selfless, they look after their own needs, but they also are aware of and take care of the people around them. Eventually they get a clue about doing right by deserving others...that's what makes them \"good.\" I once said that the remarkable characters stand apart because they come to understand their iniquities, and attempt to reform themselves: Lizzy, Darcy, Emma, Marianne - even Anne, who reevaluates past decisions - are forced to acknowledge their own harmful weaknesses. And I agree that nothing in Austen is cut-and-dried...however, I do contend that though it be madness, yet there be method in it...there seems to be a bit of a pattern (perhaps logic is a better term) which rules the nature and level of villainy...the least believeable story (LS) has one truly evil villain, and the most believeable (characterwise) have a very diffuse sort of obstructionist antagonism. In the middle, we got a dichotomous sort of antagonism, with a powerful (or powerfully annoying concentration of antagonism on one side, and a siren-like but functionally blameless concentration of rakish distraction on the other."}, {"response": 38, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:35)", "body": "Kathleen -- the comparison of John Thorpe to a used-car salesman was made on Austen-L and is quoted on my jokes page http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austt10j.html"}, {"response": 39, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:43)", "body": "Henry -- thank you. I knew I had seen it somewhere close to home, as it were. I thought it might have been Austen-L, but I suspect I saw it on your jokes page first. In future I will try to cite a reference. :-)"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (04:21)", "body": "If life was full of only 'goodies\" - wouldn't it be a boring place indeed. My passion goes out to Willoughby, not as villian or as Kali would put it - a 'rake' He brought out Marianne's character, full of vibrance for life, daring to love and displaying it with such 'unacceptable' behaviour and careless of the consequence. That would be the height to soar to before the bitterness of being 'betrayed' and I would recommend a dose of Willoughby in one's life to bring them out of innocence into reality. From hindsight, I wouldn't be surprised if Marianne would always cherish the time with Willoughby inspite of the mellowed affections of Col. Brandon. Shoot me any ne?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (04:31)", "body": "\" But Fanny adores him and will make him a good wife...She deserves him because she wants him so much.\" Katy, isn't it a shame that Fanny had grown to be more street-smart than Edmund . He only provided her with the sound principles and she had the 'advantage' of being brought up poorly in Portsmouth. I wonder if they will be happily married. She will be, but he did fall a little to much for Mary and was willing to compromise his principles for her ways, if only to a limit. But once there's a start to such a compromise, wouldn't or couldn't he then later rationalise why Mary spoke of Henry's affairs as sh did. I think Mary Crawford is superb and would have liven him up. Fanny and Edmund would be too boring together."}, {"response": 42, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (08:21)", "body": "Actually, I can imagine good things for Fanny and Edmund. Fanny has finally been pulled out of the shadows of neglect and insecurity and Aunt Norris. She has a home with the man she loves. Sir Thomas adores her and pays a lot of positive attention to her - something she has never know except from Edmund. Susan is there to provide an active female friendship. A few years later, when she and Edmund settle into the Parsonage at Mansfield with several children, we might not even recognize her."}, {"response": 43, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (18:25)", "body": ".... I would recommend a dose of Willoughby in one's life to bring them out of innocence into reality .... I always thought every young woman should be entitled to one two-week vacation with the hunk of her choice sometime during her 20's. this shall not count! her husband or boyfriend (should she have one at the time) cannot deprive her of it or hold it against her later. her virginity status does not change nor does her chasity. this is merely a ritual of young womanhood which allows every young woman to 'get it out of her system'. I could be convinced that two weeks was not enough. two months perhaps!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (19:16)", "body": "But, Katy, Jeremy would get terribly tired! ;-)"}, {"response": 45, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (20:08)", "body": "OH CINDY!! I'm sure the MAN has incredible stamina! I want to be on fire like Juliet and Guinevere! And Jeremy's just the man to do it. If my heart is going to broken, it should be by such a Jeremy. I will settle for nothing less!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (20:18)", "body": "Cass darling...come to Pemberley?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (01:35)", "body": "Good idea, Katy...when are you going to arrange my two months?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (02:52)", "body": "Katy, I am extremely fond of your suggestion, but why limit it to our 20's?"}, {"response": 49, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (08:02)", "body": "Susan, this is to be a rite of passage, hence appropriate to an age group. naturally for those of us already over past our twenties when the tradition emerges, a special clause entitling us to a catch-up would have to be written. (But please give me back the drives of a 20-something for the trip!!!)"}, {"response": 50, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (11:12)", "body": "I am certainly glad we are extending this for those of us past our 20s! \"hunk of our choice\"...hmmmm, whom to choose, whom to choose.... ;-)"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (11:36)", "body": "I have a question, and I hope I'm getting the order of things right here. Would Wickham have been able to have any revenge on Darcy, if the Bennets were'nt so tied to doing what was propper for Lydia? By just taking her to Gretna Green, he only shamed the Bennets, as Darcy had no connection at that time. He had to know that the Bennets were poor, and Lydia was not a good prospect. Until they were found, by Darcy, and forced to marry, then Darcy had to pay all the debts, his commission, etc. So he got some revenge on Darcy, but Darcy brought it all about, by saving the respectability of Lizzy's family. Do you think Wickham thought Darcy's connection was more concrete earlier on, so that is why he pursued Lydia? I don't know if this is the right place for this, but I couldn't find another topic close to it."}, {"response": 52, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (11:52)", "body": "IMHO -- I don't think that Wickham knew anything about Darcy's attraction to Lizzie or intended to elope with Lydia to gain any kind of profit from Mr. Bennett. He needed to hide out from his creditors -- some guy with a crooked nose named \"Bruno\" was probably after him ;-) Figured that it would be nice to have some little \"cream puff\" with him to pass the time, thus Lydia was a good choice. One point that we never seem to bring up here, is that, according to the book -- Mr. Darcy first tries unsuccessf lly to convince Lydia to let him take her home. He makes sure that the marriage takes place only because she refuses."}, {"response": 53, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (12:10)", "body": "I agree Candace. Wickham had no thought that eloping with Lydia would in any way affect Darcy. Wickham also quite clearly did not intend to marry Lydia when he took her with him, whatever she thought. Even when Darcy turns up he quite clearly is still interested in the possibility of marrying another rich woman for her money."}, {"response": 54, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "It appears that Wickham's interest in Elizabeth faded when the Bennet-Bingley connection seemed to fade and his interest in Lydia began as the Bennet-Darcy connection began to glimmer in the skies. The man either has good spies or incredible timing."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:36)", "body": "I can't give Wickham credit for good intuition or superior awareness...he's kind of a comic character because he's always at the wrong place at the wrong time...myopically selfish, creating trouble all around him. The Georgiana affair is the only thing I can charge him with planning for the specific purpose of revenge..."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:03)", "body": "Kali, I understand what you mean about a pattern to these things. I'm thinking on it, but don't hold your breathe!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "Why would Wickham need to revenge himself on Darcy at all? Darcy gave him the cash to bail out of the living. So he wanted the living back later but (if I recall) it was already given to someone else.Wickham must have been a really 'small' man to think that spreading a rumour of Darcy here and abouts, would gain him some money from Darcy. Of course he could have married Miss Darcy. And there Kali, yes, would have been revenge..but for what possible motive? I mean, the man could have just moved on with his deceptive-style of life, being as charming as he was, and marry someone else for the money. Am I going round in circles and missing the point to the 'revenge'?"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "Why would Wickham need to avenge himself on Darcy at all? Darcy gave him the cash to bail out of the living. So he wanted the living back later but (if I recall) it was already given to someone else.Wickham must have been a really 'small' man to think that spreading a rumour of Darcy here and abouts, would gain him some money from Darcy. Of course he could have married Miss Darcy. And there Kali, yes, would have been revenge..but for what possible motive? I mean, the man could have just moved on with is deceptive-style of life, being as charming as he was, and marry someone else for the money. Am I going round in circles and missing the point to the 'revenge'?"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "Opps.."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "Wickham would want revenge for Darcy breaking he and Georgianna up-as his future would have been set with her money!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (22:35)", "body": "\"Wickham would want revenge for Darcy breaking he and Georgianna up-as his future would have been set with her money!\" Yes, he had 30,000 reasons for revenge."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (23:21)", "body": "And isn't it somewhat ironic that poor Darcy ended up with Wickham as a brother-in-law anyway?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (02:23)", "body": "You have jolted back the memory, 30,000 would be a fortune huh?? But wouldn't Wickham have been surprised that Darcy would take such an interest in making sure he and Lydia would marry. It would be like, why is Darcy butting in?? He has no connection to the Bennets. He must have suspected something was up between one of the Bennet girls and Darcy. And yet Wickham still mentioned to Lizzy (as his sister in law) how disadvantaged he was by Darcy's withholding the living Is this man just as 'male' as Colonel Fitzwilliam, to not even suspect would be inconceivable?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (13:06)", "body": "He probably suspected that there was more to it than it seemed, but I doubt he had any idea what that might be. But I am sure the last thing Darcy would have wanted to do was give Wickham any idea of the truth. Wickham would have used that to extort even more from him."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (18:08)", "body": "Most certainly, Ann...and he probably had little inclination to push and find out, weak as he was...his most immediate problems (debt, &c.) were going to be solved for what probably seemed like a small inconvenience at the time (marrying Lydia, which he probably came to regret). Revenge for the Georgiana affair, and the judgemental condemnation from Darcy which undoubtedly sweetened the initial allure of Georgiana's 30K, was probably the last thing on his mind. It seems that Wickham has always had little regard for anything but the selfish gratification of the present..."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (04:10)", "body": "So do we then agree that Wickham and Lydia's marriage would not last for very long after? Or would Wickham continue to hold onto Lydia so that he could always remain a brother-in-law to Darcy?"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (06:50)", "body": "After three years, Wickham had spent the 3.000 \ufffd on a life of idleness and dissipation. He then tried again to have the living at Kympton, which Darcy of course refused to give him, though Wickham seems to have repeated his request several times and abused Darcy violently to anyone who cared to listen... that it was meant for him, that Darcy had noone else to provide for..( a bit like poor deceived Lizzie later.)Hence the need for revenge!"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (08:44)", "body": "Ann,that particular motive for revenge puts Mr Wickham's very low in my opinion. I cannot even rationalise it, that he knew he was buying himself out of the family living and then going back and asking for it. Is he for real? Even the fact that Darcy had no one to provide for doesn't mean it would or should be his. Here's a thought, at the end of the book, since Lady Catherine would be so out of humour with anyone in connection with the Bennets, Mr Collins and Charlotte move to Derbyshire too. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 197, "subject": "Respect, Esteem & Gratitude", "response_count": 21, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "Perhaps gratitude or some such emotion was a necessary part of this love. Possibly because of the financial condition of the Bennet family at this time, more than any gracious behavior on the part of Darcy. Respect is necessary no matter what. Can one be esteemed and loved at the same time? Eliz. is searching for a reason to marry Darcy. She forces respect, esteem and gratitude together to forge herself a love of sorts. The passions, however, somehow seem lacking. I think Ms Bronte has something to say about that."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (12:50)", "body": "Carl - I must differ concerning your \"Eliz. is searching for a reason to marry Darcy.\" Indeed, she has no trouble refusing him the first time he proposes, and has no real reason to believe he will renew his addresses, especially after the whole Lydia affair. We see, however, that she has become interested in Darcy *before* she learns of his role in getting Lydia married, and begins to worry that he thinks ill of her. I don't believe that Charlotte Lucas, who is forced into forging a love of sorts for Mr. Collins, would have exhibited this behavior. I see these two marriages as forming a contrast between forced and genuine esteem and love. And as for passions, I think Austen gives us hints all along as to the passionate nature of Lizzy..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (13:58)", "body": "I think Carl may have stumbled on an important word: respect. I think that Lizzy discovers in Derbyshire that Darcy has learned to respect her--which was certainly lacking in his first proposal. From his repect for her, comes her gratitued for him."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Cleo", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (14:12)", "body": "I remember catching this line the third (or fourth) time I read the book. In the version this was noted so I checked the notes. I do not have my book on me at this time as I have lent it to a friend so I'm going on memory here... The notation was derived from a book popular in JA's time. The author, a man, wrote that gratitude is the original foundation of a woman's affections (love) for a man. Gratitude because he chooses/wants/desires her above all other women. This evolves into esteem and ultimatel into love. My inital response was one of repulsion: GRATEFUL?!?!? Grateful for the interest expressed by or the love of a man??? The horror. The horror. My second reation, was one of introspection. Indeed, the night I met my husband I was with my friend (the one with my book) and as she was getting married two weeks later my sole objectives that night were to get her drunk and get her home. Four of us were out that night - all blondes, all drinking champagne. A receipe for attention, I admit, but me ting men was not on the adjenda as I had just had 9 teeth pulled, many gaps in my smile and a full set of braces. With braces & a toothless smile at 28 I believed that because some/most/many men are so shallow that I would not have a date until the braces came off at age 30. A gentleman, however, introduced himself. Did I feel gratitude? Yes. Gratitude that of all the ladies with full smiles in the bar he chose me. I esteemed him largely due to his deep character which, in an age that emphasizes perfect bodies and perfect smiles, prefers the \"aura\" (his word, nor mine). I fell in love with him. We married last November. So, yes, if I am to be honest with myself, gratitude was a foundation. A skeptic, like Lizzie (a man who loved her despite her position in life could not be sensible), I was slow to trust and thus love this genuine person. By the way, the friend who has my book just gave birth to her first last week, so I doubt I will see the book soon. I also lent my videos to a disadvantaged soul who had not yet had the pure pleasure of viewing this film. I thought I could survive, or at leat that I would have more time on my hands, instead, I find myself suffering from withdrawl & I may have to purchase another copy of the novel! But I digress, I although I am not fully comfortable wit the idea of being grateful, in my case I must own i as truth. Cleo"}, {"response": 5, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "How can we ever name all the emotions which constitute \"love\"? I think Elizabeth (as portrayed by Jane Austen, of course) is trying to understand her feelings for Darcy as they change over the period covered by the novel. Respect and esteem had come to her as she realized her prejudices were wrong. Gratitude also exists -- \"not merely for haveing once loved her, but for loving her still well enough, to firgive all the petulance and acrimony of her manner in rejecting him.\" Not gratitude for his helping her family, but for treating her so respectfully when they meet again. Maybe one of the problems we have with the word gratitude is an implied sense of obligation. But gratitude does not mean being in debt or owing the other person. It means being thankful or pleased. Elizabeth is thankful and pleased with Darcy's behavior toward her and the Gardiners when they meet at Pemberley & Lambton. Gratitude for someone loving/liking you does not cause love. In fact, if the other person is not someone you do not like then their affection for you can feel a bit weird. Respect and esteem, it seems to me, would be necessary for a solid love to grow. Gratitude probably enters into more of our relationships than we realize -- I know that I am grateful when my friends put up with my out-of-temper moments!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (17:13)", "body": "DTBT strikes again. In my next to last paragraph, I meant to say \"if the other person is someone you do not like\" -- nothing like no double negatives neither, NO?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "cat", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (18:13)", "body": "I am not sure about this gratitude thing. I mean yes I would expect Lizzy to be grateful that Darcy still loved her despite everything that had happened and went through a drastic change for her, and then actually proposed a second time which shows true love, but I don't think it was or should be an asset to the love they shared."}, {"response": 8, "author": "cat", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (18:17)", "body": "P.S. Cleo, Congrats on the marriage, and your friends new motherhood!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (20:04)", "body": "It seems to me that true gratitude in a relationship arises mainly as a response. We may feel grateful (or be pleased) that our partner is talented or has easy social graces; but Lizzy feels a deeper sort of gratitude because she is responding to Darcy's forgiveness. Darcy is not holding a grudge because of her unjust accusations. She senses this most strongly at Pemberley. Within a single hour, she glimpses Darcy's true character through the housemaid's eyes, and then directly experiences his forgiveness when, after his surprising arrival, Darcy pays her unexpected courtesy and attention. But Darcy feels just as grateful toward Lizzy. Grateful, first of all, for teaching him a proper lesson in humility, but more importantly: grateful for her forgiveness. Within half an hour of that same meeting, he tested her by requesting the honor of introducing his sister. Her acceptance proved to Darcy that she had forgiven him. Darcy later admitted this to Lizzy after she accepted his second proposal: \"'My object then,' replied Darcy, 'was to shew you, by every civility in my power, that I was not so mean as to resent the past; and I hoped to obtain your forgiveness, to lessen your ill opinion, by letting you see that your reproofs had been attended to. How soon any other wishes introduced themselves I can hardly tell, but I believe in about half an hour after I had seen you.'\" Darcy feels strongly that he had been more in the wrong than she: \"Your retrospections must be so totally void of reproach, that the contentment arising from them is not of philosophy, but, what is much better, of innocence. But with me, it is not so.\" That both Darcy and Lizzy could forgive the other, and openly acknowledge gratitude for the other's acceptance, speaks of a mature healthy relationship that has bright prospects indeed. So respect, esteem and gratitude are clearly very important to a relationship; but I would add one more: forgiveness."}, {"response": 10, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (21:26)", "body": "Bill -- marvelously written. Thank you for adding Darcy's gratitude to our discussion; we seemed to have focused almost entirely on Elizabeth's. And yes, forgiveness is important in all relationships, most important indeed."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (22:23)", "body": "\"Your retrospections must be so totally void of reproach, that the contentment arising from them is not of philosophy, but, what is much better, of innocence . But with me, it is not so.\" My copy of P&P has the word ignorance in place of innocence, and it has always given me problems. I like innocence much better. Ignorance didn't make much sense and sounded like too much of an insult in the middle of a very tender scene."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "Ann, in my Norton's critical edition the words in the text are \"of ignorance\" with a footnote #. The footnote states: \"In Cassandra Austen's copy of the novel, she changed \"ignorance\" to \"innocence\" (Oxford edition 2.397), so I presume it depends on which edition one has. I also prefer innocence to ignorance, although I never took ignorance as an insult--more in the way one says \"you didn't have all the facts\"."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Mar 18, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "Well written, Bill. You have given me much food for thought and clarified Darcy's statement for me. I do not think I have ever apprehended it as clearly as I do now (my edition uses 'ignorance'). Thank-you!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (01:02)", "body": "Kathleen and Bill thanks for your comments. I think you both articulated the importance of gratitude (and love, respect, etc) in a loving, healthy relationship."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (01:25)", "body": "There's nothing wrong with gratitude, too many people now feel that being loved is their \"right.\" It's not, it has to be earned. I am grateful/thankful every day for the people in my life whom I love, and who love me."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Cleo", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (08:07)", "body": "To Bill's assertation that a helthy relationship/marriage requires respect, esteem, gratitude and forgiveness, please let me add communication and romance. My mom always maintained that romance & love are two seperate entities in a relationship. I must say I agree with her. It is too easy to \"stop running once you've caught the bus\" that it takes a conscious effort to haul out the candles, chill the wine and dim the lights on a Friday night at home over a plate of meatloaf & mashed. With respect to Cheryl's point on love not being a \"right\", and that she is \"grateful\" every day...I agree...I have the love of good friends, family and a husband, and I thank God for each of them. I am \"grateful\" that despite my faults, they continue to respect me, esteem me & love me."}, {"response": 17, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Mar 19, 1997 (11:06)", "body": "Cheryl, maybe that's part of our larger society, where nothing is earned and everything is a \"right.\" As far as P&P -- It must have been quite a surprise to Lizzy to find Darcy so gracious upon their meeting at Pemberley in light of her unjust accusations. She had no idea her \"reproofs had been attended to\" in the intervening months since Hunsford, so this mut have been a real shocker!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (05:34)", "body": "Bill that was beautifully expressed. Carl, not sure if you're viewed P&P1, where Lizzy's transformation of disgust of Darcy to one of appreciation and respect is wonderfully dramatised. She literally explains the progress in that adaptation. Whereas in P&P2, it would come across as having seen his 'grounds' at Pembermy. Though this too is not too bad a thought. Considering only Darcy has only ever been a figure to be seen in public places or at the Netherfield, there is no insight into his own person there. But when you see the place he lives in, have lived at all his life, it gives credulence to his 'pride' and 'airs'. He has tremendous responsibility in his estate to both business and the people that reside there. He becomes a real person to her at that point. It's like seeing your boyfriend/girlfriend's room for the first time, it gives insight into their lives."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (17:45)", "body": "Serena, I agree with you about the importance of Lizzy's seeing Darcy at his home. Lionel Trilling defined snobbery as \"pride of position without pride of function,\" and that's the difference between the Darcy we see among strangers and the Darcy we see at home. When Lizzy gets a glimpse of him as landlord, master and brother, and sees how well he handles his responsibilities, she begins to understand why he takes himself so seriously. But I think it's his love and concern for Georgiana that really bowls Lizzy over and makes her fall in love. Darcy is more of a father than a brother to Georgiana, and I know that whenever I see a man behaving like a good father to a child--especially a girl--it conquers me as nothing else can. I think that's what happened to Lizzy."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (18:25)", "body": "Does anyone else feel that perhaps P&P1 captured more of the 'respect, esteem and gratitude\" than P&P2?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (02:26)", "body": "RE: 237:9 - Well said, Bill! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 198, "subject": "Happy Birthday", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "The Spring has a birthday today. Three years old now. To this day. The first day of Spring."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "Really, Terry? I had not known it has been around so long. Are you planning any sort of pagan ritual?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (18:48)", "body": "Spring has sprung, the grass has riz, wonder where the flowers is -- Happy Birthday Spring in the Spring!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 20, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "Should we have a ritual in the chat room tonight?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Dina", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (11:32)", "body": "Happy Birthday!! To you and too my Dad (I am sure he will be checking in here to see if I posted it....)."}, {"response": 6, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (22:30)", "body": "Happy birthday - Dina's Dad! - thanks for stopping in!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (04:48)", "body": "Happy B'day and have many. many more. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 199, "subject": "Emma 3", "response_count": 69, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (08:34)", "body": "Kathleen, I just got my hands on \"The Making of Emma\". What a wonderful book! I have not read it yet, but I have skimmed through it a few times. I love the fact that the screenplay with \"stage\" directions is included. The pictures are wonderful! There are so many good ones of Mark Strong.(the \"bald\" one is nice, too). He appears to have a five o'clock shadow in some of the pictures; howevr i had already noticed that in a few of his close up scenes in the video. My favorite picture has to be one at the bac of the book after the screenplay. It was taken during the propasal. KB and MS are facing each other with big smiles on their faces, and KB is standing on her tiptoes. I love it!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (13:31)", "body": "About the hats... I thought the hats were supposed to set Emma apart as having more fashion sense than anyone else in little old Highbury (I'm not necessarily saying I like them). In P&P2, Miss Bingley and Mrs. Hurst are the only ladies wearing hats at the Meryton assembl y and are thought to be very elegant. Also in Persuasion, Lady R always wears a hat. I thought that was just supposed to show that these women were more concerned about fashion than other women. I agree that GP going hatless most of the time in Emma2 does give her a more unaffected air than KB has in Emma3. This is imbued in the character in other ways as well. KB looks with utter disdain at Robert Martin. GP does not act nearly so stuck up. I guess it goes down to interpretation of the character. Also in the old Emma1, she never wears hats, but she does have a lot of fussy little muffs and capes and such. I also thought that even though some of KB's hats were pretty outlandish, she wore them very well. I try to picture myself in such a hat, and I can only imagine the comments, \"I had no idea she could look so very clownish, so totally without air...\""}, {"response": 3, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (14:49)", "body": "I try to picture myself in such a hat, and I can only imagine the comments, \"I had no idea she could look so very clownish, so totally without air...\" LOL, Barbara! The fashionable ladies you mention are indeed sartorial goddesses - and they're also OBNOXIOUS!!! Note, too, that Caroline B. is well on her way to oldmaiddom, certainly in spirit if not in the literal sense. Check out this expression...ack! I really have to See Emma1...it sounds like a party..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (14:51)", "body": "She looks like the Mad Hatter...\"And a very merry unbirthday to you...!\""}, {"response": 5, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (14:55)", "body": "hee, hee"}, {"response": 6, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:10)", "body": "Kim: My favorite picture has to be one at the back of the book after the screenplay. It was taken during the propasal. KB and MS are facing each other with big smiles on their faces, and KB is standing on her tiptoes. I love it! I agree. And I like the pre-kiss picture on page 148 as well. These don't really look like publicity photos. I suppose they were either lighting checks or maybe different shots of the scenes which got left out in the final version. The picture you men tion shows so much happiness on their faces, it is wonderful to contemplate. The picture of the leading ladies (page 14, outfits from the strawberry party) is also a nice one."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:12)", "body": "And a very merry unbirthday to you, too, Mrs. Bernhard...;)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (18:54)", "body": "Kali, you crack me up. (and you know I'm still in my stunned state of being)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "Kali, I see you're still nailing it spot-on the point. Her hats/bonnets did add to an overbearing-Emma and were very becoming to her protrayal of Emma. I quite pictured Emma more liked Gweneth did."}, {"response": 10, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (19:53)", "body": "I loved the scene (in Emma3, BTW) where Emma & Harriet visit the Bates and find FC and Jane Fairfax. Frank and Jane subtly but surely showed their embarrassment and affection. She clearly understands all of his comments, and Emma is quite clueless (alth ough Emma thinks she is the one in the know)."}, {"response": 11, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (20:08)", "body": "Speaking of being clueless or in-the-know, what of old Mrs. Bates? Is she the total ditz? She always understands what Jane says, but then Jane speaks so clearly. Just something I've always wondered about, ever since my first reading, ? years ago."}, {"response": 12, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (20:15)", "body": "Maybe Mrs Bates is \"selectively\" deaf! My father was like that -- he always seemed to hear what he wanted to hear (or what I did not want him to hear!). Mrs Bates might have preferred, at times, just to tune out her talkative daughter."}, {"response": 13, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (20:40)", "body": "But what of her awareness of all that transpired between Jane and Frank?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Nicole", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (23:05)", "body": "I just bought A&E \"Emma\" at Costco for $12.39 Canadian {what a deal}, and at the beginning there is about 1 or 2 min. of the Making of P.&P. I love M.S. interpretation of Mr. Knightley."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (23:49)", "body": "Mrs Bates might have preferred, at times, just to tune out her talkative daughter. Sheer self-preservation, Kathleen! I love M.S. interpretation of Mr. Knightley. You are in good company, Nicole, and most welcome!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (02:26)", "body": "Indeed, Nicole, it's always nice to meet another MS/Knightley fan. I was enjoying the Christmas Eve dinner at the Westons'. When Mrs Weston says she forgives Frank for not having visited yet, the look between Mr & Mrs Weston is so loving. Very affectionate couple. [You must talk amongst yourselves for a few days. I am going to visit some friends until Tuesday night. Catch you later.]"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (03:27)", "body": "\"But what of her (Mrs Bates) awareness of all that transpired between Jane and Frank?\" Cindy, I always wondered about that..though with Miss Bates I sometimes get the impression, when reading the book that Miss Bates was somewhat let into the secret, I found that especially when the rivots of the spectacles scene, and how Miss Bates was loudly, incessantly reminding the newly arrived guest of the \"s tep at the turning\", it seemed like she was alerting Jane of their coming back into the flat.. or have I always imagined that?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (08:43)", "body": "Serena, I agree about the \"step at the turning\" bit; it does seem as though she knows what is going on, but in the book, did she really? I'm not sure. Speaking of the Christams dinner, one thing that has bothered me is Mr. K's words about FC, about how he should have come sooner. They all knew this to be so, but it seems a little ungentlemanly to criticize Mr. Weston's son in front of him. I can see h im saying it to Emma in private, but in front of everyone? I thought this was a little rude, something that a true gentlman like Mr. K would not do, regardless of his real feelings on the matter. I too loved the addition of the servants on Box Hill, and the way they show them riding on the cart, holding everything down, and then dropping things on the way up. It really makes you think about how much trouble this would all be. Certainly not an ou ting to be taken lightly."}, {"response": 19, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (14:55)", "body": "Lynn, I wondered about that, too. it does seem a little out ofcharacter for K to critiisize in front of F's father. He also does something like that after he finds out F. has gone to London to get his hair cut. He mutters under his breath about F. being t he silly fellow he thought he was. Maybe he is just so jealous of F. that he cannot help his reaction."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (15:16)", "body": "As far as Miss Bates knowing about Frank and Jane, I'm afraid that I'm unable to believe that she would be able to keep a secret from spilling from her lips even if her very life depended on it. We used to use a grossly indelicate expression to describe people like her: we said they had 'diarrhea of the mouth.\" Miss Bates is definitely infected with that disease -- she's one of those \"Think it; say it\" people. ;-) Yes, Kathleen, the Westons do exchange many loving looks. I particularly like the one you're talking about, when Mrs. Weston says, \"Well, I forgive him,\" meaning Frank. I agree it seems rather presumptuous of Mr. Knightley to criticize Frank in front of the Westons and others, but I think he is such a gentleman himself that he is appalled by a lack of gentlemanly behavior in others. However, to have him display this by being somewhat ungentlemanly himself, and possibly causing pain to his friends, does seem \"un-Knightley-like.\" But I forgive him... ;-) Aren't the servant scenes great? My personal favorite is still the scene where they have to stand there and move the cushions down every few feet for the strawberry pickers. And it's taken so much for granted. It's no wonder the servants always talked so much and had so much gossip to carry; no one ever seems to hold their tongue in front of them."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (15:40)", "body": "Mr. Knightley is one to feel a sense of duty and thinks everyone else should Where Frank is knowingly avoiding visiting his father to be with Jane Fairfax. Once Jane has arrived he is there."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (16:05)", "body": "I didn't find it all that out of character for him to say what he thought was right. I did like the added touch of the Westons being a little amused by his bluntness. I think the look they exchanged was meant to tell us that Knightley is not a jerk, just a person who won't hesitate to say what he believes is right and just."}, {"response": 23, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (16:20)", "body": "They exchange the same sort of look after Knightley takes leave to tend to his delayed business, too. They seem rather more amused at K's taking it so seriously than by Frank's being a \"coxcomb\" as Mr. Weston called him. As Emma said at the very first scene, I believe \"Mr. Weston would take it very much amiss\" if Miss Taylor had not shown at the church for their wedding."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (18:22)", "body": "\"They seem rather more amused at K's taking it so seriously than by Frank's being a \"coxcomb\" I agree with that comment, Cindy but it does not add to Mr Knightley's attraction of being the true gentleman, if the Westons (themselves considered respectable) could be amused by his sense of honour and in front of people too that would learn from their behaviour (such as Harriet and Emma even) Mark S was usually uptight about something or other. I thought this adaptation had him to caught up with duty. There was little warmness in his character. Don't get me woring, I think he does a great job given he script he had to work with."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (01:52)", "body": "I agree with you, Serena...his comment about duty at the Christmas party was perhaps a bit too blunt to be in character...he may not hesitate to speak his mind about Frank to Emma in private, but I greatly doubt he would take such a public shot about a man he's never met - in front of his parents and their friends! It sounds like more of a John thing to do...(and he does, in his own style...the line about the Churchills' money). Everyone knows how I feel, but again, I have to say that this script allows Mark Strong too much \"tall (and righteous!) indignation\"...I've always thought Mr. Knightley too circumspect to get so petulant (the above-mentioned Frank comment, his reading of \"It would do her good!\", the ranting after Frank's no-show, &C.). He's supposed to have a commanding air, but he's not supposed to be publicly obnoxious."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (01:53)", "body": "Oops, Serena! I see now that you meant the haircut day scene...no matter, it all equals the same anyhow... BTW - I DO like Mark Strong...a lot, as a matter of fact...I just wish that he would tone himself down a bit sometimes..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (03:14)", "body": "And he had such a warm, sincere, caring smile, it seemed a pity he was always so uptight.."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (03:27)", "body": "I felt the same way as you guys until I watched Emma3 a few times, then it seemed more in perspective. I love the play between Emma and Knightley when he helps her out of the carriage at Randalls (\"Nonsensical girl!\"); the honest comments and looks he gives her when they are talking about how talented Jane is and Emma is not; the way he always remembers to offer a hand or an arm, or to bow and excuse himself before leaving a conversation; and last but not least, the way he looks in the scene where Isabel a and John come to visit (I know this is not new, but God, do I love it!)."}, {"response": 29, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (11:08)", "body": "Susan, and the strawberry party, don't forget the strawberry party! :-)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (11:49)", "body": "As if I could, Cindy! Brown rules! I was just trying to focus, at least for a short time, on his gentlemanly ways, since I now have a drool site for my lustful appreciations..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (11:50)", "body": "BAD words!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "After reading \"the Making of Emma\" and AD's and MS's comments about Mr. Knightly, I believe they were trying to show him as a man deeply in love (although he did not realize it in the beginning). He is jealous of Frank Churchill and thinks he is going to lose the relationship with Emma that he has had for so long. MS says that he was worried at first that people would be put off by him always having a go at Emma,but he realized his strong reactions were always out of his deep feeling for Emma. At Box Hill he is devastated because of Emma's behavior to Miss Bates, and he is hurt by the way he thinks Emma feels about Frank.It all comes to a head and he has his very strong words for Emma. needless to say, I find MS as Mr. Knightly perfect. Cindy, I think I came into all of this a little late, and I have not had a chance to read some of the earlier postings. Would it be too hard on you to tell me what it is exactly about the strawberry party you love? Is it just the brown clothes?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "Here is a portion of the interview with MS from the \"making of \" book.: \"I pared it down to basics. He's loved Emma for a long time, even though he's not necessarily concious that he wants to marry her at the beginning of the story. He is patient and he's waiting and he's guiding her, and then suddenly here comes this boy, Frank Churchill, who ruins everything. Knightly's whole world is turned on its head. I think the first times he feels that everything is falling away is when he and Emma walk into the Westons'arty together. We have this lovely chat-she's smiling and I'm sm ling- and then the door opens and there's Frank, and she beams a big smile at him.(Kim's note: Did that cut this scene out? I do not remember seeing it.) Suddenly it's not about me and her anymore.I think he feels a bit superflluous, and I must admit in playing the scene, that I felt a bit like a spare part, too. He gets irritated by this boy, and starts telling off Emma more sharply than he's ever done before. He's probably going home in the evening and thinking,\"Why on Earth did I do that? What is hap ening?'. I think, slowly, he works it out for himself. He comes to realize that he loves her. And he fears that he may lose her to this young pup. At this point I worried that, becuase I was always having a go at Emma, the audience might not see the love behind it. I was talking to Jimmy Hazeldine about this one day and he said not to worry, that for him the scene at Box Hill where Knightly pulls Emma up on her behaviour to Miss Bates was an act of love. He said that people don't take that kind of interest in somebody unless they have very special feelings for them. After that scene, Knightly is convinced that he's lost Emma to Frank and takes himself off to London and only returns when he hears of Frank's engagement to Jane. What's lovely about the propasal scene is that it sort of happens by accident. He thinks she'll be devasted by Frank. She thinks he is in love with Harriet. So neither expects what suddenly happens.............\" I apologize for this being so long, but I thought some of you might be interested in MS's comments. Susan, for your information, this portion is on page 21, next to page 20 that Kathleen and I have already discussed as having a wonderful \"hat\" picture."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "Yes, Mark Strong plays an incredibly jealous lover. Too obviously jealous if you ask me. Almost spiteful, and it bugs. Susan, I wish there were more light moments like that upon arrival at the pianoforte scene party... My general original comments are preserved for all to see at http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~kip/kalem3rev.html Susan's tracking of Knighltey's love for Emma is at http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~kip/susem3rev.html"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:49)", "body": "BTW, I finished my sixth viewing of this film on Friday...I purchased the video the week it was broadcast."}, {"response": 36, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:59)", "body": "Thanks a bunch for those comments, not having it yet, awaiting this book's arrival with much impatience ]He said that people don't take that kind of interest in somebody unless they have very special feelings for them . Well, I believe we do :)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:49)", "body": "Kim, let's see,now what exactly about the strawberry party? In short, just about everything! Every last minute detail. - Mrs. E's being glad not to have any form to their day, but wishing they's come in on a donkey - Emma's making faces behind Mrs. E's back, registering them with Mr. K - \"perhaps not\" - Mrs. E's face after Knightley puts her off - the servants standing out in the garden, in full dress, just to move the little cushions - One of My Absolute favorites - \"are you fond of sheep then, Mrs. Elton?\" - AG! - Mr. K sitting at table licking strawberry juice off his fingers - everything else However, my constantly quoting \"perhaps not\" goes back to my thinking that he (MS) is at his absolute cutest in his brown hat, brown coat, with big brown playful eyes that are trying not to give away too much that he's admitting to seeing the faces that Emma's making at Mrs. E behind her back. And in my shallowest of shallow feelings, the hat frames his face very nicely (and covering the receding). And FYI, I have officially changed my favorite color to brown, for various reasons. ;-)"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:17)", "body": "I agree with whoever said he looked good completely bald...he looks VERY nice that way..."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:52)", "body": "Do we get to see a scanned picture Kali, or is that asking too much? Please."}, {"response": 40, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:56)", "body": "Serena, there's one in Darcy's drool, CF and MS wearing red shirts in a crowd. (shot from Fever Pitch)"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "Thanks.. haven't been to drool for ages and ages.. on my way now.."}, {"response": 42, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (20:02)", "body": "Serena, in fact, the lovely Johanne put it in as #11 in Mark Strong."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "Kim, thanks so much for sharing; it gives us a lot of insight into how MS saw his character. He's probably going home in the evening and thinking,\"Why on Earth did I do that? What is hapening?'. I think, slowly, he works it out for himself. He comes to realize that he loves her. And he fears that he may lose her to this young pup. Poor man! I can't WAIT for this book. (And BTW, I don't remember that scene where she smiles at Frank at the Westons, either.) Kali, I know this wasn't an Emma moment, but how about the fun Knightley has playing with John and Isabella's kids? He really lets his hair down there, so to speak. And as Cindy mentioned above, the way he enjoys baiting Mrs. Elton at the strawberry party as Emma laughs. And the scene where he is smiling behind Mrs. Bates's back as she says the 'three silly things' line. And his \"very sprightly\" about Frank's dancing at the ball. I guess I see all of this as showing his sense of humor. I'm curious, Kali, since I really do value your opinion -- what kinds of other things keep drawing you back to watch since it's not MS's performance? (BTW, I promise to watch Emma2 when it comes out on video with a completely open mind.) Cindy, LOL re \"-Everything else!\" That \"perhaps not\" moment is my fave. And again I ask -- if anyone finds a decent MS-as-Knightley picture, please share PRONTO!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (02:15)", "body": "Susan, it must be this very topic and all the excitiment amongst Emma3 people about how MS's facial expression shows this or that and his subtle gestures, overpowering only because it is not obvious to the impatient viewer the 1st or 2nd or 3rd time, that draws Emma2 fans to Emma3 video over and over again. But that's my excuse, that and the fact that Emma2 is not available. I would like to know why Kali watches it too- seeing how she almost banished me from Emma2 discussion because I mentioned how MS was growing on me!!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "janea", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (05:38)", "body": "Ladies, have you noticed that it doesn\ufffdt matter which of the adaptations we discuss - we always come back to how they _look_ at each other. The way Darcy looks at Lizzy, how Knightley looks at Emma, how Brandom looks at Marianne. It\ufffds wonderful how much they can say with their eyes. You can feel the love, the strong emotions. I love it!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "I agree Jane. The looks are so important. There are many of these such looks between Emma and Mr. Knightly in Emma 3. I love the way Mr. KNightly looks at Emma at Christmas time after they have made up with each other. I read in the \"Making of\" book that the proposal scene was actually filmed in the first week. Interesting, I thought."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (13:10)", "body": "The proposal was also filmed very early for P&P."}, {"response": 48, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "Ann, that was the first proposal in P&P2 - it was filmed after only two weeks. But the second proposal was at the very end of shooting because they had to wait for the autumn foliage!!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (17:51)", "body": "People, I don't doubt that Mark Strong's Knightley loves and wants Emma very much...however, his love is so often shown in such an odd way...like I said last month, so often he is forced to react explosively to her because he can't express his interest in her any other way. He acts like a father at the end of his rope, who can do nothing but \"Ka-BOOM!\" when the daughter does or says something stupid or detrimental. Certainly, the reaction is a natural one, but Strong so overuses it that it doesn't jibe ith the character, in my opinion. Since I have been corrupted by jeremy's influence, I am also aware of other, less rage-filled and sexually-frustrated portrayals (sexual frustration can be entertaining without being kosher to the book) which better fit my view of the character. I see Mr. Knightley as rather Apolline, rarely indulging in loud and obvious temper tantrums. This is not to say that he doesn't get crazy from time to time. Even Apollo had a temper - flayed Pan, bonked Hyacinth on the head w th a discus, and chased Daphne like Pepe Le Peu chases Penelope the cat - and Jeremy's knightley has one too (he physically roughs up Gwyneth at Box Hill...) In the novel, Mr. Knightley certainly exhibits his share of \"tall indignation,\" but it never becomes monotonously tiresome as it does in emma3 (he's supposed to have \"a cheerful manner which always did him good\"). Much of his bitterness (I thought this was supposed to by JOHN'S territory - John is supposed to be a foil to make George look like Mr. Happy/Thoughtful) is made public in this adaptation, whereas in the novel, most of his rage is contained and directed (vs. the haircut explosion, the duty comm nt at the party, and his very public rescue of Jane at the pianoforte - in the book, Mr. knightley suggests to Miss Bates that SHE ought to drag Jane away, and she does). Every time you see him, practically, he is ranting or complaining about something...the poor man just can't seem to relax (okay, I'll give him the carriage arrival at the Weston's and the \"Nonsensical girl!\" scene on that score...but it's written that he reacts playfully...oh, and yes, Susan, the kids...but who doesn't like kids? Mark Strong makes it obvious that he's a CARING grouch!). As I've said many times before, this portrayal is fine if we're speaking generally (there's lots of room for maneuvering inside this envelope, but sometimes we can push its edges!)...and to be honest (how many times must I repeat this?!), I really do enjoy some of his scenes (\"Badly done, indeed!\" and the proposal). He's an alright Knightley, and this is a very good production of my favorite novel of all time! I enjoy its treatment of the Frank and Jane affair, appreciate several of the portrayals (Prun lla Scales' Miss Bates, Guy Henry's John, etc.), and welcome this and any other decent treatments of such a wonderful story. Mark Strong's and Kate Beckinsale's performances (whether you consider them to be perfect or less than) do not loom so large that you can't enjoy the production as a whole."}, {"response": 50, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "JN \"physically roughs up Emma at BOX Hill\". OOOH KALI!! Why did that give me such pleasure? Perhaps Johanne is right-I am masochistic. I agree though. Strong's Mr Knightley was too one-dimensional to fulfill my expectations. He is either overwrought and angry or quiet and longing. The Box Hill scene really is a good point of comparison. Yes-Jeremy is angry, but his body language and tortured expressions tell another tale. When I took a friend to see the movie(she had never read the book), she thought he was going to take Emma in his arms-right there. She kept looking back, like Emma in the book, for him to return. Feel free to attack me."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (18:24)", "body": "I thought that they both did a damn good job with that scene, but Jeremy's was all the more powerful because he hadn't wasted the power of his ire in previous scenes. Go to http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~kip/kalem2def.html for a better explanation on my part."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (03:42)", "body": "Kali & Cassendra, do the pair of you visit Emma3 just to continually rub Jeremy Knightley up against Mark Strong? I'm beginning to feel more 'sympathy' for MS now than ever. He was uptight but gentle, agressive but feelingly so. He came across more of the mature man capable of running that massive estate of his. Jeremy Knightley appeared somewhat (now..I'm going to be shot dead in my sleep!!) a little to playful for a man of 37 or 38. Yes, he was very cheerful and charming. But he was too obviously t e person for Emma right from the start. It was almost as though he was just hanging about waiting to be married to her. There was too much chemistry (though I loved it all) right from the beginning. Am I alone in this revelation??"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (04:19)", "body": "Nope, we don't - really! It just keeps coming up because we can't help but compare the two when we're talking of one or the other...pray forgive us. And as for me, I've always seen the chemistry in the novel between Emma and Mr. Knightley...she's such a flirtatious little thing, and she doesn't even realize it (I don't blame the guy for falling like he does), and Mr. Knightley is so protective of her... Also, who says that men in their late thirties can't be charming and playful? It is written that he's cheerful...and it's obvious from the text that he has a wry sense of humor."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (04:21)", "body": "Oh, and as far as waiting around to marry Emma, the same could be said of Mark Strong, who gives the impression of a man embittered by the fact that the object of his desire is sexually oblivious to him."}, {"response": 55, "author": "janea", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (04:36)", "body": "For obvious reasons most of the discussion here is about Mr Knightley. But how about Emma? Am I the only one who is a little reluctant to Kate Beckinsale? If Mark Strong is the perfect Mr Knightley, is Kate B really the right Emma for him? Is she the right Emma for us? I don\ufffdt know if I prefer Gwenyth (do you spell it like that?) because I\ufffdve only seen Emma 2 once at the cinema and that\ufffds not enough (I\ufffdm longing for the videorelease) but I`m not all that fond of Kate. I\ufffdm writing this at work and have no ustenbooks here (can you imagine...) but isn\ufffdt Emma supposed to be 21 or something like that? That was quite an age then. I know you can\ufffdt compare the leading ladies from different JA books, but I think that Kate\ufffds Emma is so _young_ . Much more the same age as Lydia, then as Lizzy if you see what I mean."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (04:36)", "body": "Kali, I didn't mean that man at 37 or 38 couldn't be charming. I meant only that he was a little too playful for someone with that amount of responsibility. I said he was charming and cheerful but that had nothing to do with the age he was. Did you really think MS's Knightley came across frustrated at his lack of appeal to Emma? I never thought about that before."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (04:40)", "body": "Jane, on that score, I felt Gweneth was the more becoming Emma of the two. Kate's Emma was too harsh and almost catty. I don't think I'm alone in this opinion."}, {"response": 58, "author": "janea", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (07:19)", "body": "Serena, I agree that she\ufffds almost catty. But don\ufffdt you think that she seems a little young to? She supposed to be spoiled and protected but also 21. To me she is more like 16 or 17."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (08:10)", "body": "I guess so Jane, her mannerisms came across quite 'youngish'. How old is she?"}, {"response": 60, "author": "janea", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "In real life you mean? I don\ufffdt know. I haven\ufffdt got my \"The making of....\" here at work. I guess she is 22-23 perhaps. But she seems much younger to me."}, {"response": 61, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (10:43)", "body": "Agree with both of you Serena and Jane, Kate B's portrayal way to harsh, spoiled brat type, even up-nose disdain can be seen which I cannot reconcile with the character. She does come out closer to Lydia than Lizzy, who's suppose to be the same age! Given that each script in their own context, Gwyneth comes out the true Emma and as Knightley I must admit a man with that much responsability and that much on his shoulder should come closer to MS altough without that much anger, but a personnality and composure probably more serious than the playfull and mischievous JN's. I can definitely hear the bows and arrows swooshing on target around my head and neck... But with this said, cannot wait to see it again and sure will be swept of my feet again and again by the wonderful Knightley (what a proper name) and find only praise, no faults, in this remarkable adaptation of Doug McGrath's Emma."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Hollis", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (11:03)", "body": "After watching Emma3 again, I have come to the conclusion that it is better than I originally thought. You have to really look for the nuances between Emma and Mr. Knightly, but they are there. I would have preferred Mark Strong to be a little more \"fun\" but I think he did a good job of showing the \"big brother\" attitude towards Emma. I had to really look though for the \"sexual\" awareness part that he has towards Emma. Kate does seem like a younger Emma than Gwyneth. I believe in real life they are close in age but Gwyneth Paltrow has an elegance about her that gives her a more mature air. Regardless I will be watching both versions over and over and over...."}, {"response": 63, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (13:15)", "body": "I have to say that I prefer GP to KB as Emma. Emma is supposed to be a bit snobbish, but in an endearing kind of way. I thought GP hit just the right note with this. KB, however, was almost leaning over to the \"Caroline Bingley\" end of the snob-o-meter in some ways. Some of the looks she gave Robert Martin! She also said some pretty b*****Y things. When Frank arrived all hot and bothered at the strawberry party and she said \"Choose your own degree of crossness,\" for example. I don't even think this l ne is in the book (or at least I can't find it). I think I would attribute (blame?) this more on the script and the direction than on KB herself. As some of us have said over in the Cold Comfort Farm discussion, KB's Flora was almost more Emma-like than Emma in Emma3. I have a question. If the Eltons are out to get revenge on Emma at the ball at the Crown, why are they so nice to her on their visit when they first come to Highbury?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "\"do the pair of you visit Emma3 continually just to rub Jeremy Knightley up against Mark Strong..\" Oh comeon Serena-lighten up! This Knightley feud is pretty futile anyways. NOne of us are ever going to agree on who is the better Mr KNightley, especially me. As for JN being to playful-where does it say in the book that Mr Knightley is not playful? \"Mr Knightley had a cheerful manner which always did him good.\" Personally, I always saw the chemistry in the Knightley/Emma relationship; it was pretty obvious to me, practically from the begining, who she would/must marry. There are dozens of subtle hints/references; one of my favorites: Emma and Mr KNightley are bantering about who is best capable of taking care of the boys and \"Mr Knightley seemed to be trying not to smile...\" As for MS looking more commanding/capable of managing Donwell-this criticism of JN, again, is kinda despreate-grasping at straws. He has a definite commanding presence-the Box Hill scene is arguably the best example. The way he is the first to speak, offer his arm, after Miss Bates' humiliation. AS for the Eltons-They epitomize the \"two faced\" personality. Emma is after all Miss Woodhouse."}, {"response": 65, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (16:26)", "body": "I have to say that I prefer GP to KB as Emma. Emma is supposed to be a bit snobbish, but in an endearing kind of way. I thought GP hit just the right note with this. KB, however, was almost leaning over to the \"Caroline Bingley\" end of the snob-o-meter in some ways. Some of the looks she gave Robert Martin! She also said some pretty b*****Y things. When Frank arrived all hot and bothered at the strawberry party and she said \"Choose your own degree of crossness,\" for example. I don't even think this l ne is in the book (or at least I can't find it). I think I would attribute (blame?) this more on the script and the direction than on KB herself. As some of us have said over in the Cold Comfort Farm discussion, KB's Flora was almost more Emma-like than Emma in Emma3. I have a question. If the Eltons are out to get revenge on Emma at the ball at the Crown, why are they so nice to her on their visit when they first come to Highbury?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Mar 27, 1997 (01:33)", "body": "Two-faced, indeed! Get their digs in when they can... As far as Kate and Gwyneth... http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~kip/kalem2def.html http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~kip/kalem3rev.html"}, {"response": 67, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 27, 1997 (18:54)", "body": "Kali, you're the only person to make it here in two days. We had to move our isp and are waiting for the new ip addresses to kick in. The InterNIC called and told me the chagnes should kick in sometime within 24 to 48 hours of 12 noon today, 10 pm EST tonight at the earliest. I'm sorry that this place has to go in to hibernation for so long."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Garson", "date": "Mon, Mar 31, 1997 (12:21)", "body": "Thank you, Terry, for the wake-up call on my e-mail. It drew me back to this conference, and the wonderful topic of Jane Austen. I think some of you are being too hard on the productions of EMMA. They were both wonderful and the actors did stupendous jobs. Think back, for all of you who have been reading Jane since high school and before, that until the last few years we had nothing (except, of course, the 1940 vintage, Hollywood-style film starring Greer Garson and Laurence Olivier - talk about drool!). But now we have so many excellent costume dramas depicting the people who've only been images in our reading receptacles! I t ink both the Mr. Knightleys did well. Jeremy Northam carried his part well opposite Gwyneth (was he better because he was opposite her? - the pretty, coquettish blonde?). And Mark Strong played his role with equal dash (anyone else see a similiarity between him and Matt Lauer of the TODAY SHOW on NBC? - Distant cousins? Hmmm. A modern-day Mr. Knightley). The only problem I have is with the authoress. Why oh why did Jane only live to write 6 novels? Would that she could have had today's medicine, and, say, lasted through our Civil War. What joys would then be in store?"}, {"response": 69, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Apr  1, 1997 (00:42)", "body": "Kim and Linda, please e-mail me at susan@kyeng.com to continue our discussion one-on-one! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 20, "subject": "Introductions", "response_count": 10, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (10:00)", "body": "I'm Paul Terry Walhus, founder of the Spring."}, {"response": 2, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Apr 27, 2000 (06:50)", "body": "Austen.com is back up! The counter says 26195."}, {"response": 3, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Apr 27, 2000 (07:31)", "body": "But spring.net now seems to be down, it's as if the apache webserver is down right now because I'm accessing this bbs via telnet."}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jun 20, 2000 (22:11)", "body": "I am Marcia - Host and chief poster in Geo Conference, co-host in SpringArk, Crafts and Garden Conferences"}, {"response": 5, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Oct 12, 2000 (12:24)", "body": "What's the best order to read the Jane Austen books? Should I read them in the order she wrote them (that is, Sense, Pride, Emma, Mansfiled and Persusion). Is Northanger Abbey and anomolie?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct 12, 2000 (20:15)", "body": "I would recommend you read them in order in which they were writen but I did not. I was smitten by Olivier at the time and I inhaled Pride and Prejudice. I still have not made my way allthe way through Northanger Abbey. If you aren ot a JA fan bu the time you have finished Emma, not sure you will be able to get through the last two. Her first 3, to my, were her best!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Oct 13, 2000 (08:40)", "body": "Interesting, is there a compilation of all her books in one volume?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct 13, 2000 (14:07)", "body": "Since each of mine is about an inch and a half thick, it probably would be awkward to do that,. and yo do not want abridged Austen. Part of her beauty and charm is the development and einteraction of the characters. It is worth getting a set or the paperback versions of each. Mine are bound, but it is a good way to discover whether she is talking to you or not without spend a lot. youc an also download and printout the entire Pride and Prejudice. Not sure how many of hte other books are like that but you might check online at http://www.promo.net/pg/ which is Project Gutenberg's Home site."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May  1, 2001 (07:22)", "body": "test"}, {"response": 10, "author": "dot", "date": "Mon, Jul  2, 2001 (00:00)", "body": "What is the chronological order of the Jane Austen books? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 200, "subject": "FanFic", "response_count": 25, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (14:31)", "body": "Ayelet -- very nicely done. I like how much emotion you have given to Anne. (I do have one little comment about Darcy's age, however. Since he was about 12 years older than his sister, he couldn't have been 8 when his mother died. Otherwise, I find your writing to be very clear and enjoyable.)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:58)", "body": "I decided to re-post this. I hope it doesn't offend. EMMA: DEJA-VU Part 3 Emma could not remember a time when she had slept so little and yet so well. How perfectly satisfied and content she felt this morning, compared to the previous day's anxiety! Her head resting against Mr Knightley's pillow-like chest, she smiled at his peaceful, eloquent slumber. \"How handsome he looks,\" she sighed. \"almost like a little boy-so young as he looked.\" Turning on her side, Emma playfully brushed a stray piece of grass from Mr Knightely's dark, lustrous hair; indeed, this was the only visible reminder of their night of passion. Instantly, Emma replayed over and over in her mind every treasured word and look, the tantalizing feel of his skin against her's. Smiling, she traced an intricate design a long his face, finally bestowing a tender kiss on his lips. To her great musement and surprise, Mr Knightley opened his eyes. \"Good morning,\" she said sweetly. \"I think it would be safer to say good afternoon,\" he replied huskily. \"And never have I been awakened in such a delightful way, or by such a charming lady.\" Emma blushed deeply at his words. Ever so gently, Mr Knightley grasped her face between his hands. His eyes burned her forehead. Brushing Emma's hair from her face, his mouth insistently found her own. Emma clung to him breathlessly, as much out of necessity for never had she felt so dizzy by his embrace. \"My Dearest, beloved Emma. Are you hungry?\" Knightley muttered passionately against her ear. Momentarily confused by his words, Emma finally answered: \"No-not particularly. Have our clothes dried yet?\" \"I don't think so. It will probably take another hour or two at the most.\" Meeting her gaze, Mr Knightley smirked bewitchingly. \"Really-a whole hour. What can we possibly do here for a whole hour?\" The brilliancy of her countenance and her hazel eyes was such that Mr Knightley could no longer prolong the suspense. Slowly running his hand along her cheek, he clasped Emma to him. ************************************************************************** Three hours later, Mr Knightey sat before his former dressing table, buttoning his white shirt. Emma was not helping matters much. For every button he succeeded in fastening, she undid two. \"My Darling! I wish I could stay with you all day, but Mrs Jennings must be wondering where we are. And it doesn't help that you must look so fetching in my clothes. You should always wear my clothes.\" \"Mr KNightley-how I wish we could always stay at Donwell. I've never seen such a perfectly, delightful place.\" \"Emma dearest-do you mean that? You know what that would entail-leaving your father.\" \"I know-but perhaps Father could be persuaded. Besides, I think there might be an even more important reason for our removal to Donwell...\" Her eyes shining brightly, Emma met Mr Knightley's anxious gaze. \"Emma-my dearest, beloved Emma! You don't mean...My Darling! You shouldn't be on your feet.\" Effortlessly, Mr Knightley swept Emma up into his arms, protectively shouldering her head against his chest. Carrying her once again to the bed, he covered her face and hands with kisses. \"My Dearest, sweetest Emma. Why didn't you tell me? Are you quite certain you are alright?\" \"I wanted to be completely certain,\" she replied calmly. And, I am more than well. I don't think I have ever been more content and happy.\" The perfect happiness of the moment was too swiftly interrupted by an insistent knock at the door. Hesitantly, Mrs Jennings entered. \"Sir. Ma'am. I do not wish to disturb you, but Mrs Martin is desperate to see you-Mr Knightley. Her husband has taken a turn for the worse and is in need of Mr Perry.\""}, {"response": 3, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "EMMA: DEJA-VU PART 4 Under the most unusual and stressful circumstances, Emma found herself for the very first time in the Martin farmhouse. Mr Knightley had insisted that she return to Hartfield, deeply concerned for her safety and especially the welfare of their unborn child. However, in this case, Emma persisted and won, declaring that she wished to be of service to the Martins and Harriet. As mistress of Donwell, it was her duty and obligation. Faced with such a sweet and ardent appeal, Mr Knightley relented. Indeed, thes days he found that he could not deny her anything. It was not sheer benevolence alone which drew Emma to the Martin farmhouse, this very evening. She had long wondered how much of Mr Knightley's praise and enthusiasm for Robert and Harriet Martin's home was just hyperbole, a testament to his kind and generous disposition. Once again, however, Emma had to admit that his judgment was sound. Although the farmhouse could never be called fashionable or elegant, it had a warmth and palatable dignity, negating the cracked floors and smokey chimney. As Emma sat at the kitchen table, little Johnny's brown moppet head resting on her shoulder, she could not help delighting in the delicious aromas emanating from the wood-stove. Harriet Smith Martin's touches were everywhere, from the delicate, lace curtains hanging above the window to the brightley coloured wildflowers, set so betwichingly at the centre of the table. Furthermore, old Mrs Martin and Elizabeth could not have been more attentive or kind to Mrs Knightley. As deeply distressed as they all were over Robert Martin's fever, the two women still found time to inquire after Mr Woodhouse's health, profusely thanking her for her service. Emma herself noted that their manners were as fine, if not superior, to the grandest of ladies. Sensing Mr Knightley's eyes on her, Emma looked up and met his gaze. Instantly, she knew that he was reading her thoughts and a blush of pleasure went to her cheeks. \"How much I love and need him,\" she thought. \"Poor Harriet-What she must be suffering! I don't think I could bear it if anything happened to Mr Knightley.\" Around the same time, Mr Perry came out, along with a weary Harriet Martin. Mr Knightley was the first to speak. \"Well Perry, I am certain the ladies have suffered enough. How is he?\" \"Ladies-I am happy to report that he will be fine. He is a very lucky man. I have seen lesser men succumb under such a fever. This is the sickly season and all. Still, he is a strong man and his fever finally broke, thanks in no large part to Mrs Martin and her continuous application of cold compresses. She is quite the nurse.\" \"Thank-you Mr Perry. Thank-you for everything. Mrs Goddard always said that cold compresses were the best remedy. We are indeed indebted to you. And Mr and Mrs Knightley too. We are most grateful for all of your service and kindness.\" Silently, Harriet kissed Mrs Knightley's hands. For once, Emma was rendered speechless. ***************************************************************************** Moments later, Emma found herself safely ensconced in Mr Knightely's carriage, his arms wrapped tightly around her. Gently, he stroked her hair. Exhausted, Emma soon found herself falling asleep against her husband's shoulder, lulled by the motion of the carriage. Within an hour, they arrived at Hartfield. Silently, Mr Knightley lifted Emma out of the carriage and carried her upstairs, placing his wife before the fire. \"My Darling-are you cold?\" he asked, lifting Emma's hand to his lips. \"A little,\" she replied softly. Immediately, he took off his coat and wrapped it about Emma's shoulders. Tenderly, he cradled her against his chest, placing his head against her own. \"Dearest Emma-do you know how very proud of you I am. You could not have been more compassionate to the Martins.\" After a while, he added: \"Emma, were you in earnest, earlier? Do you still wish to remove to Donwell? As you know, it is immaterial to me where we live. You made me the happiest of men, consenting to be my wife.\" \"Indeed, I was Mr Knightley,\" she replied strongly. \"As much as I hate the thought of giving Father pain, I believe it is time that we had our own house, our own privacy.\" \"Well, as you are determined, we will both speak to him when I return from London.\" \"London? Oh yes. You have some business to discuss with John. I completely forgot,\" she replied, lowering her face. Lifting Emma's chin to meet his face, Mr Knightley softly answered: Dearest, I wish I could take you with me, but it will only be of a few weeks' duration. I promise. Smirking bewitchingly, he further stated: \"There is one obvious benefit of a separation of which I can think: the pleasure to be derived by all when I return.\" Kitty's thick, irish brogue broke the delicious silence of the room. \"Mrs Knightley-will you be needing any help undressing?\" Commanding Emma to her feet by the ardent look in his eyes, Mr Knightley pressed her against him and lifted "}, {"response": 4, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "It's terrific, Cass!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "EMMA: DEJA-VU PART 5 Three days later, Emma went to Randalls for her weekly tea with Mrs Weston. Emma loved nothing more than to visit her former governess. Next to Mr Knightley and her father, Mrs Weston was the dearest person in the world to her. This very afternoon, however, an unwelcome intrusion in the usual familiarity and intimacy of these occasions was one Mrs Elton. As Emma sat opposite her, calmly sipping her tea, she could not help recollecting with some degree of pleasure that this was the first time she had seen Mrs Elton socially in many months. Mr and Mrs Elton were hardly frequent callers at Hartfield or even Donwell. In fact, Mrs Elton had just returned from another extended trip to Bath, visiting her \"very particular\" friend, Mrs Partridge. In between ravenous bites of her sandwich, the lady was endeavouring to relate, to Emma and Mrs Weston, the intimate details of her latest excursion. \"Why Mrs Knightley-you look so pale! Doesn't she look pale, Mrs Weston? You really should consider going to Bath. The waters and air would do wonders for you. You should see Mr E-quite the changed man. His few grey hairs have simply gone away!\" \"Mrs Elton, I have no inclination to visit Bath,\" Emma quitely protested. \"There is no place in the world more conducive to my health and spirits than Highbury.\" \"The collosal nerve of that woman!\" Emma silently remarked. \"Grey hairs indeed. I am in no doubt as to how he got them.\" \"You'll never guess whom we saw in Bath,\" Mrs Elton continued, interrupting Emma's reverie. Before any of the ladies could reply, she smugly uttered: \"Mr and Mrs Frank Churchill! Dear Jane was always a favorite of mine, so sweet and charming. And such lady-like manners. That's such a rare quality these days,\" she added, gazing intently at Emma. \"They say he simply adores and spoils her. And her jewels....\" \"Yes, we had a letter from Frank just the other day, concerning their trip to Bath and London,\" Mrs Weston interjected uncomfortably. \"Mr Weston and I both hope that they will be able to visit Randalls soon.\" \"Yes-that would be lovely. Oh Mrs Knightley,\" she continued with greater enthusiasm, \"you do not know what a shock I had on my last evening in Bath..\" \"I am sure I can't imagine,\" Emma replied sharply. Still Mrs Elton persisted. \"Mrs Partridge, the lady whom I always reside with on my trips to Bath, introduced me to the most charming creature-a Lady Hollingsworth. Apparently, she spent her girlhood in Highbury. Mrs Partridge and I simply raved about her. And such beauty-flawless, ivory skin and the true crystal-blue eyes. Now that I think about it-she ressembled your little friend. What was her name? Oh yes-Miss Smith! Anyways, she expressed a great interest in you.\" \"I am confidant I have never met the woman. You must be mistaken, Mrs Elton.\" \"Now, that I think about it-you would have been too young. From what I understand, she was quite a favorite with Knightley at one time. She entreated me to convey her sincere good wishes for your marriage\" A red-faced Mrs Weston immediately sprung to her feet. \"Oh my-look at the time. And Mr Weston shall be home soon.\" \"Indeed. And I was never one to wear out my welcome. As my friends always say, I am the soul of tact. It would not do for Mr E to come home and find me elsewhere. For he is simply lost without me! Please excuse me ladies and give my best wishes to Mr Weston. Good evening Mrs Weston...Mrs Knightley\" Moments after Mrs Elton departed, Emma remained blankly staring at her empty tea cup, her head spinning. \"Vulgar, insufferable woman! What did she mean? This is all so strange.\" Lifting her head, Emma's anxiety increased as Mrs Weston busied herself with the china, deliberately avoiding her gaze. \"Tell me! Emma cried, her voice filled with terror. Tell me the truth! About what was Mrs Elton speaking? Who is this woman?\" \"Emma dear-I am as mystified as you..\" \"I charge you to tell me at this moment. I cannot bear this silence a moment longer.\" \"Emma dear-if I had known what Mrs Elton planned to say, I would never have permitted her to remain in this house!\" To be utterly honest, Emma had never seen Mrs Weston so enraged. After a few uncomfortable minutes, Mrs Weston gently sat down beside Emma. Warming Emma's trembling hands, she finally decided to speak again: \"When I first came to Highbury, I do recall that Mr Knightley was engaged to a local girl, a very pretty and high-spirited young lady named Annabel Edwards. Her father was the curate here. I was not privy to the entire story, but I do know that the engagement was broken off almost as soon as it was made. The young lady left for London to reside with her aunt. I believe there were many objections to the match as Miss Edwards possessed neither fortune or connection. A mutual aquaintance informed me, a long time later, that she had managed to marry a member of the House of Lords. Although I never met the lady, I often heard her beauty and poise praised.\" \"And, he was in love with "}, {"response": 6, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (23:33)", "body": "I cannot wait until part 6, Cassandra. Keep up the good work!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (04:58)", "body": "Thanks, Kathleen. Ann, may you fix Darcy in the guide? Chapter 13 This chapter's use is merely to make connection between Anne's childhood and the rest of her story, and it may be useful to understand what happened to Anne in the next 16 years I am going to skip, mostly because there is not much to tell about them: Anne never quite gave up, she just recovered from the losses she had in this painful half-year, she had to recover the loss of Miss Williams, her beloved teacher, for although she got letters from Miss Williams, and answered them in her trembling hand write, it was still painful. She had to get over the loss of Anna and all the other girls, she discovered she even missed Mary Wilson, something in Mary's decided pride made Anne like her. She had to recover from the most painful loss, of Lady Anne, for if s e could still toy with hope of meeting her other friends, with Lady Anne it was quite impossible, the most she could do was hold Helen and remember her sixth birthday, so long ago, when she got Helen, and Lady Anne said, she remembered the exact words: \"This is a friend for you, Anne, her name is Helen, do you like her? It's your special doll, only for you!\" Oh, what wouldn't she do to hear that friendly voice again! And most of all, Anne had to gather confidence for the day she would insist upon doing wh t she pleases, for she never gave up that brave childish dream to be independent, she just was not as daring as she was as a child. These reasons made Anne sickly and pale, for she used all the energy she had for her soul, and left very little for her body. In those sixteen years, only one did much change her life, the year in which Darcy and Elizabeth met, especially the weeks they were both in Rosings Park. Elizabeth's daring, playful nature proved Anne that you could show Lady Catherine your independen e without behaving highly rude or improper, and when Lady Catherine took her to Hunsford to show her how Elizabeth would NOT marry Darcy, and to comfort her, for Lady Catherine truly belived that Anne wants to marry Darcy, and she heard every word of their conversation, she felt somewhat surprized, and glad, to discover Lady Catherine, as she heard by the silly punishment Elizebeth got, may bark, but not actually bite, it gave her courage, and she decided that was time to act. To be continued..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (05:31)", "body": "Oh, I'm really silly today, I wrote Hunsford instead of Hartfodshire! Better do no more writing to-day."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (15:46)", "body": "Ayelet, what age do you want me to make him?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (22:26)", "body": "12 is just fine. Chapter 14 After Lady Catherine returned from her call at Pemberly, Anne adressed her immidiatly, it was now or never: \"Mother, I am going\" She said it so suddenly and decidedly, that Lady Catherine's first words weren't a declaretion that Anne won't, but a question: \"Where?\" \"To visit some old friends, and maybe to visit Elizabeth and Darcy, after they'll return from the honeymoon\" \"Elizabeth and Darcy? What do you mean? I must know! Miss Bennet is not to marry Darcy!\" \"She is\" Said Anne, quietly but firmly \"I heard her words, and as for Darcy, why, I beg your pardon, but you have to be blind if you hadn't noticed how violently he's in love with Miss Bennet, or shall I call her Mrs. Darcy? No, not yet, but soon enough, Mamma\" \"Anne! What nonsense are you talking! You know very well that you will marry Darcy, let's have no more of this, it's bad for your health\" \"I will not marry Darcy, I don't want to, I never did, nor did he, he loves Miss Bennet and she loves him, why shouldn't they marry? But leave it alone, the point is, I'm going to visit childhood friends, I will be gone for two months, may I send for the carrige?\" \"You! Don't want to marry Darcy! Anne, you are getting sicker\" \"I understand this is \"yes\", thank you, Mamma\" \"Anne! Wait! You are sick! you can't go outside in such weather! Anne! What ever came into your head? Come back!\" Lady Catherine ran after Anne, but was surprised to see how quick Anne could walk, leaving Lady Catherine far behind, talked with the charioteer, and sharpened her tounge in the case she'll have to stand on her own once more, as she did: \"Anne! Rude girl! You will kill yourself! You are sick!\" \"Your Ladyship, I am somewhat sick, that's right, but I'm sure fresh air and change will only help me\" \"Anne! And where will you sleep?\" Asked Lady Catherine, sure that this time she won the argument. \"It's up to the day: I will be two weeks at Miss Williams', two at Woodlawn Park-\" \"Woodlawn Park? Where is it? What have you got to do there?\" \"A friend from school lives there\" \"And that rude Miss Williams? Why shall you visit her? Maybe she is not alive?\" \"She is, she's a great deal younger than you, so if you, thank godness, are still alive, why shouldn't she? She's only ten years older than me\" \"Anne! You can't go! I don't allow you! Anne! You are sick!\" But nobody heard it, because Anne went to her room, to pack. To be continued..."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "Anne, you go girl! ;-) (Thanks Ayelet!)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "All right, Anne, you are on your way!!!!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (10:52)", "body": "I've been away from Spring for a few days and now I find that most of the fanfic is in archives..I must be allowed to say this: Inko, you have managed to make fitz a person i care about. i feel proud of him, not hesitating to interfere against injustice. And the foreshadowing when he asks Joe to keep quiet about it. So he did not like to have his private actions known to the world, even at this early age then!? You have so enchanted me, that I smiled to myself at his question'Will I be able to make friend ?' and made a tiny noice of concern. And he is so sweet asking Mr Stone about love. I have to agree with Mrs Reynolds, he is goodnatured. But pray tell, who is Edward? Aylet, Anne is so mature and wise for her years, I have read as far as the funeral and how she saw her mother as a human being. I liked that. About Mr Knightley...Cass, I have been waiting for that continuo for weeks..."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Genette", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:45)", "body": "I suppose I'll give this a try. Please be kind, gentle readers. This is my first ever attempt. Charlotte Spins a Web It was a rainy fall day in Kent. Charlotte Lucas Collins was sitting in her parlor at Hunsford Parsonage working at some sewing when she heard her maid open the outside door for delivery of the post. It sounded as though the rain and wind had worsened. Indeed it was not a day fit for man nor beast. This had not, however, prevented Charlotte from earlier in the day urging her husband to attend to his usual routine of waiting upon his patroness, Lady Catherine De Bourgh. Mr. Collins had set off for Ros ngs Park with his hat pulled firmly down about his ears, resolute in the duty to Lady Catherine that his wife had assured him was necessary despite the threatening look of the day. It was never difficult to persuade Mr. Collins that he was quite essential to Lady Catherine. This thought was quite in keeping with his view of his main purpose as clergyman of the Rosings Park neighborhood. These times of solitude were quite essential to the preservation of the harmony of the Collins household. Charlotte remembered once telling her friend Elizabeth how often she and Mr. Collins might spend a day without more than a few moments of time together. What she had not revealed to her friend was the intense relief she felt every moment that her husband was absent from her. When Mr. Collins had made his addresses to Charlotte a scant few days after her friend Elizabeth had refused those same offers to herself, Charlotte\ufffds only concern in accepting him had been anticipation of how her friend might view such an action. Though a stupid man, William Collins was quite incapable of violence toward her, was quite eligible in his standard of life, and was attached to a great family of the land. Escaping spinster-hood, a mantle she had unwillingly begun to assume at the age of 27, nd securing a providential situation for herself was her one consuming purpose. Charlotte well knew, however, that she had sunk in her friend\ufffds opinion when she accepted her new role as mistress of Hunsford Parsonage. From Charlotte\ufffds perspective, though, Elizabeth had been quite foolhardy in her refusal of that post. Thus, a gulf of understanding separated the two friends from the closeness that they had shared previous to these events. Charlotte\ufffds affection for Lizzy was unwavering. Lizzy\ufffds affection for Charlotte was also quite strong. But the intimacy they had previously enjoyed, the camaraderie and confidence, was altered. As a result of this change and also her near constant solitude, Charlotte had taken to studying Lizzy carefully as one way of passing her days. She had had only had brief opportunity to do so in person in the past year--- when Lizzy had joined her father and sister in visiting Charlotte in the springtime. But Charlotte and Lizzy maintained a regular correspondence with one another. Charlotte eagerly and carefully read through all of Lizzy\ufffds letters for clues as to all the particulars that might be omit ed as a result of their changed friendship. One situation Charlotte had been taking particular note of was the changing state of her friend\ufffds feelings toward Mr. Darcy. Almost since the first moments of Mr. Darcy\ufffds entrance into Meryton society Charlotte had noticed that he was quite taken with her charming friend. Fitzwilliam Darcy was all that Charlotte could ever imagine any woman hoping for in a husband. He was wealthy, respectable, sensible, handsome and of good connection. His only lack was notable amiability out amongst society. By righ he was a proud man. That he was also a quiet man of reserved disposition did little to endear him to the general populace. For Charlotte\ufffds part, the only ill behavior she had ever noted of him was his initial slight to Lizzy. Amusingly enough, he had seemed to regret this attitude with haste. Charlotte had noted Lizzy\ufffds determined refusal to dance with him at the very next assembly and had seen the admiration this challenge had sparked in Mr. Darcy. Indeed, by the time Lizzy had visited Hunsford in the spring, Fitzwilliam Darcy had been unable to tear his eyes from her. Though he did his best to maintain his composure, Darcy studied Elizabeth with a hungry desire that made Charlotte envy her friend\ufffds good fortune. First he had called at the Parsonage immediately after his arrival at Rosings--- a practice highly unlikely to have occurred with only the Collinses as inducement. Then he had -- so the servants informed Charlotte -- called on Lizzy more than once when he had known her to be alone at the Parsonage. Thus, Charlotte had been only a little surprised when a report from the servants at Rosings had reached her that Mr. Darcy had written letters addressed to Miss Elizabeth Bennet! At least one such letter had been seen in his bed chamber. The most puzzling aspect of this situation was Lizzy\ufffds sudden illness near the end of her time at Hunsford coupled with Mr. Darcy\ufffds obvious d"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Genette", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:47)", "body": "I suppose I'll give this a try. Please be kind, gentle readers. This is my first ever attempt. Charlotte Spins a Web It was a rainy fall day in Kent. Charlotte Lucas Collins was sitting in her parlor at Hunsford Parsonage working at some sewing when she heard her maid open the outside door for delivery of the post. It sounded as though the rain and wind had worsened. Indeed it was not a day fit for man nor beast. This had not, however, prevented Charlotte from earlier in the day urging her husband to attend to his usual routine of waiting upon his patroness, Lady Catherine De Bourgh. Mr. Collins had set off for Ros ngs Park with his hat pulled firmly down about his ears, resolute in the duty to Lady Catherine that his wife had assured him was necessary despite the threatening look of the day. It was never difficult to persuade Mr. Collins that he was quite essential to Lady Catherine. This thought was quite in keeping with his view of his main purpose as clergyman of the Rosings Park neighborhood. These times of solitude were quite essential to the preservation of the harmony of the Collins household. Charlotte remembered once telling her friend Elizabeth how often she and Mr. Collins might spend a day without more than a few moments of time together. What she had not revealed to her friend was the intense relief she felt every moment that her husband was absent from her. When Mr. Collins had made his addresses to Charlotte a scant few days after her friend Elizabeth had refused those same offers to herself, Charlotte\ufffds only concern in accepting him had been anticipation of how her friend might view such an action. Though a stupid man, William Collins was quite incapable of violence toward her, was quite eligible in his standard of life, and was attached to a great family of the land. Escaping spinster-hood, a mantle she had unwillingly begun to assume at the age of 27, nd securing a providential situation for herself was her one consuming purpose. Charlotte well knew, however, that she had sunk in her friend\ufffds opinion when she accepted her new role as mistress of Hunsford Parsonage. From Charlotte\ufffds perspective, though, Elizabeth had been quite foolhardy in her refusal of that post. Thus, a gulf of understanding separated the two friends from the closeness that they had shared previous to these events. Charlotte\ufffds affection for Lizzy was unwavering. Lizzy\ufffds affection for Charlotte was also quite strong. But the intimacy they had previously enjoyed, the camaraderie and confidence, was altered. As a result of this change and also her near constant solitude, Charlotte had taken to studying Lizzy carefully as one way of passing her days. She had had only had brief opportunity to do so in person in the past year--- when Lizzy had joined her father and sister in visiting Charlotte in the springtime. But Charlotte and Lizzy maintained a regular correspondence with one another. Charlotte eagerly and carefully read through all of Lizzy\ufffds letters for clues as to all the particulars that might be omit ed as a result of their changed friendship. One situation Charlotte had been taking particular note of was the changing state of her friend\ufffds feelings toward Mr. Darcy. Almost since the first moments of Mr. Darcy\ufffds entrance into Meryton society Charlotte had noticed that he was quite taken with her charming friend. Fitzwilliam Darcy was all that Charlotte could ever imagine any woman hoping for in a husband. He was wealthy, respectable, sensible, handsome and of good connection. His only lack was notable amiability out amongst society. By righ he was a proud man. That he was also a quiet man of reserved disposition did little to endear him to the general populace. For Charlotte\ufffds part, the only ill behavior she had ever noted of him was his initial slight to Lizzy. Amusingly enough, he had seemed to regret this attitude with haste. Charlotte had noted Lizzy\ufffds determined refusal to dance with him at the very next assembly and had seen the admiration this challenge had sparked in Mr. Darcy. Indeed, by the time Lizzy had visited Hunsford in the spring, Fitzwilliam Darcy had been unable to tear his eyes from her. Though he did his best to maintain his composure, Darcy studied Elizabeth with a hungry desire that made Charlotte envy her friend\ufffds good fortune. First he had called at the Parsonage immediately after his arrival at Rosings--- a practice highly unlikely to have occurred with only the Collinses as inducement. Then he had -- so the servants informed Charlotte -- called on Lizzy more than once when he had known her to be alone at the Parsonage. Thus, Charlotte had been only a little surprised when a report from the servants at Rosings had reached her that Mr. Darcy had written letters addressed to Miss Elizabeth Bennet! At least one such letter had been seen in his bed chamber. The most puzzling aspect of this situation was Lizzy\ufffds sudden illness near the end of her time at Hunsford coupled with Mr. Darcy\ufffds obvious d"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Genette", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "apologies for the double post"}, {"response": 17, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:58)", "body": "Genette, this is fun! I look forward to more."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:09)", "body": "Genette, great work! I like Charlotte's way of thinking--always thought she knew and saw more than anyone else about Darcy and Lizzie!! Nicely done!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Vivsy", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Genette, you did a great job for your first time. I look forward to the conclusion. It never would have occurred to me that this would make a great story. It has also given me an idea. Maybe someone should write a story on Mr. Collins proposal to Charlotte. Might be fun!!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (06:36)", "body": "Chapter 15 One of the servants addressed Anne: \"Er... Miss, can I tell you that you were brave, once again? it would be sad these weeks without you, but at least I know I can trust you, that you returned to your own self again, I didn't know what happened to you in the last sixteen years\" \"Oh! Yes- thank you, Sarah\" Anne remembered the names of the servants from her childhood, they were kind to her in her worst days, they liked her, and she liked them, she never thought of being above speaking with them as human beings \"How is your cough today? I hope it's not getting worse\" \"Oh, no, Miss, it's much better, Miss, thank you. Can I help you with something?\" \"Yes, thank you, Sarah. Can you help me to find proper clothes?\" \"Oh, sure, Miss\" Sarah opened the closet \"There, here's a nice one, don't you think?\" \"Yes, it's perfect. Can you do the rest of the packing please? I've got to do many other things to do\" \"With pleasure, Miss\" \"Thank you, Sarah\" Anne went to write to Anna and Miss Williams. She checked the addresses again, yes, she had them both, clearly written, that address was Anna's gift to Anne, She decided to write to Anna first: To Miss Anna Lane, (Anne was somehow sure Anna didn't marry yet) I must introduce myself first, you probably don't remember me, I am Anne De Bourg, I have been in school with you, the little brown haired girl you always talked with, with the china doll she pretended to be alive, do you remember? I sencirely hope you do. For I am going to call on you in a fortnight, and stay for a fortnight, if it doesn't fit you, please write and inform me. Yours, etc. Anne De Bourg Anne attached to the letter a picture of Woodlawn Park, that she drew when she was six and a half years old. Now, she had to write to Miss Willaims, that was easier, for Miss Williams often suggested Anne to call on her, and \"Remember the good old days\", and Anne always replied that she would wish to, but she cannot yet, not before she takes enough courge to talk bravely with her mother, and that may take time, she was sure that Miss Williams would be glad to have her visit: To Miss Elenor Williams, You would be probably be delighted to know, my dearest friend, that I can come and call on you, I would be there, god willing, on march fifth ----, we may talk, as you wish, of the good old days, and tell each other of our lives, I am sure it would be most exciting to hear your story, and I hope you would find mine interesting, for so much happened when you were not here. Anyway, I leave it all to you to find out, Yours, etc. A. De bourg To be continued..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (08:06)", "body": "Genette, thank you. That is a very interesting angle...both Charlotte ... and Sir William knew from the very beginning that something was likely to happen..and they did try to help it happen.Can't see any signs of first time...and remember, you don't perform to strangers.;-) I am keeping my fingers crossed for Anne, hope Anna will be found, they seemed to be such close friends. Thanks, Aylet."}, {"response": 22, "author": "thorpe", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (12:02)", "body": "CRISIS AT PEMBERLY CHAPTER ELEVEN For Georgiana and Captain Denny passage on the Merryweather was a great emotional release. As they stood on the deck reaching the open sea Denny remarked, \"Free at last! The beginning of a life without portent.\" Georgiana was of mixed feelings, \"I trust we are doing the right thing.\" He squeezed her hand as if to reassure her. Neither noticed the small boat remnant to the north as the voyage progressed. Charlotte Collins had not received word from Elizabeth as time had drawn near for Georgiana's departure. Miss Darcy had chosen to remain at Rosings to assist Caroline and occupy familiar company. On the night of the 16th Mr. and Mrs. Collins had attended the couple's farewell dinner at the Manor. Lady Catherine had not yet emerged from her room. Nothing had proved remedy for her despondency. Captain Denny arrived, and despite the awkwardness of the situation, was at ease in conversation. \"We are so anxiou to be at sea. By this time tomorrow the Merryweather will have us underway to Lisbon.\" \"Captain are you quite sure there are no other options?\" Caroline pleaded. \"May you not appeal to the Darcys for acceptance of this relationship? I do not believe this action is warranted by the experience of Wickham. Georgiana, you were so much younger then and given your feelings for Richard, Darcy is certain to make some accommodation.\" \"I am sorry, but if you value my feelings, I would beg for your support in this matter,\" she replied. \"Our course is set. We will pay the price. Perhaps, some day if things change...\" But that was the only concession she would imply. Charlotte, however, was determined to know their plan to its end, for she had little sympathy for their pretense of changing lifestyles. \"If Lisbon is your destination how will you live in such a country?\" Captain Denny was not completely forthcoming, \"But it is not our \"final\" destination. We will spend only time enough there to secure passage to a pleasing location of English speaking people. I have a distant relation to whom I have sent word of our need for residence. It shall not require a great deal of adaptation.\" It was only two hours after their encounter with the Merryweather that the Darcys were rescued at last. Shortly after the ship had receded from view, land was sighted placing them near the mouth of the Thames. A small sailing craft resembling a yawl was then sighted on a direct path to their location. From the sea they were taken to medical facilities in London and after a week's recuperation, returned to Pemberly. With the exception of Darcy's leg they both were in reasonable health. He was able to hobbl with help, but was anticipating two months of relative inactivity. Never had Elizabeth been so thankful to be in Derbyshire! It was the following day, when, hearing of their homecoming, the Bingley's paid a visit to the Manor. After each couple's account of recent events, including Charles' sincerest expression of remorse for his actions in Parliament, attention turned to the elopement. \"We were able to determine that Georgiana and Captain Denny were on board the Merryweather,\" Elizabeth announced. \"If not for the storm or a more prodigious current we might have made the interception. It was unfortunate to have come so close without a favorable outcome after all that we had endured. On the other hand if only we had not seen the letter from Lydia, time would then not have been a concern. I imagine by now they have congratulated themselves over a successful escape.\" \"He is a decent sort of chap, \" Bingley proclaimed, \"he helped me to realize that coming home was the best thing I could have chosen. It raised my spirits.\" \"Since when have abduction and desertion become attributes of decency?\" countered Mr. Darcy. \"And was it honourable to flee without a word or solicitation to the family? I think not.\" Elizabeth objected \"But he knew the consequence of approaching us at Pemberly. Had he the slightest hope of success it might have been attempted. Could Georgiana have made you react otherwise?\" Jane added, \"He is but a young man who admired a girl of poise and beauty. He could not bear to lose her by incurring your objection or wrath. Perhaps we might have given him some post which served both our estates.\" \"Then you are all against me?\" William was frustrated. \"No one sees the impropriety of an elopement with Captain Denny? I cannot accept this resolution. I will not give up attempting to recover my sister.\" Bingley, wanting to ease the mounting antagonism, suggested, \" Might we all visit Lady Catherine? I have word from my sister that Lady de Bourgh is not well and does not come out of her room.\" Elizabeth, was not of much enthusiasm for such an undertaking, nevertheless, it would permit a paying a call on Charlotte, and hence she supported the proposition, \"Yes, William, as reluctant as I am of further travel it is an obligation we cannot escape and the resolution of her situation may serve us all well.\" As th"}, {"response": 23, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (20:54)", "body": "Chapter 16 It was two days since Anne decided to visit her friends, and she was about to get into the carrige. Suddenly, she heard a loud, horrible scream, breaking the peace of country. Anne's insincts told her what it meant, and who yelled so, but Sarah took care to inform her of it: \"Oh! Miss! I have not seen her Ladyship so angry since you told her what you thought of her, years ago, can you ever guess what happened?\" and here Sarah stopped, to get back her breath, but Anne used this silence to guess: \"Darcy marries Miss Bennet?\" \"Miss what?\" \"Miss Bennet. That girl from the country, who came here on april, that archy, pretty, witty one, Mrs. Collins's friend.\" \"Oh, yes, Miss, you got it, Miss, I heard her Ladyship say her name, but couldn't hear it properly. I hope these news aren't unwelcome?\" \"Oh, no! Sarah, don't worry, I never loved Darcy, but my hate was nothing to his\" \"So, Miss, are you glad he marries?\" \"Glad? I couldn't be happier! Miss Bennet would not marry anybody unless she loves him, you could tell. You must remember the day he purposed and Lousia was accidently hearing. So if she married him, he must have became a real gentleman. Indeed, I am glad, I wish them nothing but happiness\" The screams they heard showed very clearly that the mother did not share her daughter's view of the engagements, she declared that Miss Bennet was rude, headstrong, stupid, in trade, daughter of traders, and she wished Darcy had never met her, that she would never have tempted him and caught him in her net of evil, of trade, that rude Miss Bennet! How dare she ruin such love as the one that Anne, dearest Anne, and Darcy shared! And the shades of Pemberly! What pullution are they going to get! The mistress of Pemberly, in trade! \"Oh, my, her Ladyship has a very different opinion!\" Anne laughed slightly \"Yes, she has, Sarah. This is one of the not-very-rare things we disagree about. I kept silent till now, but she shall hear my opinion, if it comforts her, I am glad, if it doesn't, plenty other people here would be glad\" And with that, Anne went to the drawing room \"Your Ladyship?\" \"What, Anne?\" \"I just want to tell you, that you can stop being sorry for me, I never loved Darcy, and never wanted to marry him, so, altough it might give you some pains, I want to tell you I am glad that Darcy married, it freed me from the thought of marrying somebody I hate, for I hate him, when he was a child, I only hated the idea, but now, when he became so proud, I hate him too. If Miss Bennet wants to marry him, she must really love him. And if he wants, despite his prejudice of people who do not have much mone , to marry her. Well, bless them, I wish them only joy\", Anne saw from the corner of her eye that most of the servants were now standing at the door. \"Anne! How could you! You know very well that Miss Bennet is only wanting Darcy's money!\" \"No, she is more than a golddigger. But if you have more to say on this subject, I beg your pardon, but I must go, we shall talk about it later\" Anne heard quiet cheers from the door, she smiled, and waved them all farewell, Anne was leaving Kent. To be continued..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Genette", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (21:52)", "body": "(sorry to take so long with this, been out of town on business) Hope you like it! Charlotte Spins a Web, conclusion Charlotte\ufffds reverie was interrupted by the return of her husband to the parsonage. Though Lady Catherine had granted him use of a carriage for his trip home, he was still quite wet from being caught in the rain on his journey to Rosings. \"My dear, we are invited to dinner at Rosings Park this evening. Lady Catherine has even offered to send her carriage back to wait upon us in an hour\ufffds time so that we shall not be importuned by the weather. Is she not the soul of generosity?\" prattled Mr. Collins. Charlotte replied with mild patience. \"Yes, of course, my dear. Lady Catherine is quite kind to us in her remarkable attentions.\" Charlotte knew the responses expected of her on the subject of Lady Catherine by rote. Standing to help Mr. Collins with his coat, Charlotte remembered his letter from her father. \"The post has arrived, my dear. You have a letter from my father.\" she said, handing him the letter. Charlotte hung Mr. Collins\ufffd coat in its proper place. Mr. Collins placed his hat carefully on the rack. He turned to Charlotte and accepted his letter. He smiled broadly and leaned toward Charlotte to confide, \"I am completely overwhelmed by her attentions! Lady Catherine was kind enough today to suggest a selection of appropriate sermon topics from which to choose for Miss Anne\ufffds wedding. Such an honor! Such distinction! I dare say that presiding as clergyman in the uniting of two such noble persons must be a very high honor. I am overwhelmed, indeed. With this said, he left the room humming to himself before Charlotte could even respond to his statements. Charlotte considered what Mr. Collins was meaning. Lady Catherine had long cherished the belief that Mr. Darcy would marry her daughter. As to the feelings of the two principally concerned in that scheme, Darcy had seemed completely indifferent to his cousin when Charlotte had observed them together. For that matter, so had Anne De Bourgh! Lady Catherine seemed quite alone in her hope that the two would unite. Lady Catherine. Now there was a person who would dare to confront anyone! Especially as concerned the interests of her estate. Would Darcy bow to his aunt\ufffds wishes? Charlotte thought not. Darcy had seemed impervious to all of his aunt\ufffds opinions when he had visited Rosings Park. Though he had politely attempted to conceal his discomfort, it had been easy for her to see that he did not agree with many of Lady Catherine\ufffds assertions or give much credit to her follies. Darcy had seemed completely intent on his thoughts of Elizabeth. And Elizabeth. Elizabeth delighted in nothing so much as deflating the self-importance those who thought themselves above her. Just look at how she had treated Darcy! Such behavior as Lady Catherine would be likely to exhibit with Elizabeth in a dispute over Darcy might even help Elizabeth to see clearly her own feelings. Perhaps Lady Catherine might be of some use after all. With proper management, Charlotte thought this situation capable of a turn in which all concerned, except perhaps Lady Catherine, would benefit. Mr. Collins went to his room to change into dry clothing and read his letter. Charlotte waited patiently for his return. \"Charlotte? Charlotte!\" cried Mr. Collins, scurrying down the staircase some minutes later. \"I am exceedingly puzzled by this letter from your father. In it he reports that it is believed Miss Jane Bennet will weds Mr. Darcy\ufffds friend, Mr. Bingley. Then he says, here, I shall read\ufffd 'It is believed that this may not be the only such celebration approaching. Other gentlemen\ufffds attentions to the ladies of Longbourn are a matter of much interest as well...' Whatever can he mean by this?\" \"Yes, my dear. Jane is to marry Mr. Bingley. I have received the same glad tidings. I have had letters from both my mother and your Cousin Elizabeth.\" said Charlotte in her most matter of fact manner. In this same way she continued, \"As to the other, it is also reported that Elizabeth may wed Mr. Darcy soon following her sister\ufffds wedding.\" \"What?\" cried Collins, his astonishment plain to see. \"That is impossible. Mr. Darcy to marry Cousin Elizabeth? You must be mistaken. Mr. Darcy is to marry Miss Anne De Bourgh. I have it on the highest authority.\" Carefully, Charlotte advised her husband. \"Do not be so surprised by this engagement, my dear. Elizabeth is a very lively, charming young woman. Mr. Darcy has been in company with her many times during the past year. I know that you--- who are so perceptive--- must have noticed his attentions to her.\" As she had expected, Mr. Collins\ufffd vanity led him to consider Charlotte\ufffds assertions. \"Yes, yes. I have in truth noted several times\ufffd well, well. At the Netherfield Ball he did ask her to stand up with him, and he did talk with her several times here this past spring\ufffd\" he nodded as he recollected all of the times he now remembered noticing attentions from Darcy"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (22:42)", "body": "So it was Charlotte! Genette, you have a real gift for this; thanks so much for sharing your largesse with us! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 201, "subject": "Northanger Abbey", "response_count": 51, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (12:24)", "body": "Ok, I'll say it first. What the hell was that ? I always wondered why this one BBC adaptation wasn't sold in the set with the other five, now I know. Poor dear Jane must be spinning (or doing cartwheels?) in her grave! I hardly know where to begin. I guess I'll start with what bothered me the most, although it had nothing to do with the plot. What was with the costumes, hair and makeup? I could barely stand to look at some of these people. I thought the old BBC Persuasion set the standard for the Big-Hair Look, but this left it in the dust, and it was sticking out in the oddest places...The makeup was appalling, the Dowager Whomever looked like someone had had at her with a paint-by-numbers kit! As to the characters, I was truly offended by the way John Thorpe was portrayed. He was openly leering at Catherine! I expected him to smack his lips at any moment, disgusting! Ok, I'll let someone else take over for now, but I shall return! I have only just begun to dish!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (12:38)", "body": "I am half way through the novel and planned on watching my tape tonight. But after your comment, I think I will simply finish reading tonight. I found Thorpe to be incredibly annoying already; your description makes him sound like some of my worst dates!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:02)", "body": "Lynn -- you know what Jane Austen said: \"John Thorpe... was a stout young man of middling height, who, with a plain face and ungraceful form, seemed fearful of being too handsome unless he wore the dress of a groom, and too much like a gentleman unless he were easy where he ought to be civil, and impudent where he might be allowed to be easy.\" [...] \"...All the rest of his conversation, or rather talk, began and ended with himself and his own concerns. [...] Little as Catherine was in the habit of judging for herself, and unfixed as were her general notions of what men ought to be, she could not entirely repress a doubt, while she bore with the effusions of his endless conceit, of his being altogether completely agreeable. It was a bold surmise, for he was Isabella's brother; and she had been assured by James that his manners would recommend him to all her sex; but in spite of this, the extreme weariness of his company, which crept over her before they had been out an hour, and which continued unceasingly to increase till they stopped in Pulteney Street again, induced her, in some small degree, to resist such high authority, and to distrust his powers of giving universal pleasure.\""}, {"response": 4, "author": "Megan", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:13)", "body": "I read the novel for the first time two weeks ago and I enjoyed it very much. I didn't know that it was going to be shown on TV early this morning, so I rented the video last week. Talk about different interpretations. It was, ..well.., I am having a hard time to find the words to describe it, so I'll be polite and say, not the way I envisioned it at all. What a pity! And so unfortunate too. It could have been so entertaining. This was plain hard to watch. Since Cheryl and Lynn started talking about Thorpe, let me start from there also. Thorpe reminded me of one of those guys who are always around you when you are interested in somebody else (brought up some memories ;)). As much as I found him annoying, I found the situations created because of him very humorous (in the book of course). I also thought that his presence increased Catherine's anticipation and impatience to be with Mr. Tilney. And that was cute. I agree with Cheryl that he was portrayed to be way too disgusting in the movie. So disgusting that I can't imagine any humour associated with a character like that. What a disappointment! But worst of all, the dialogues and scenes I enjoyed the most in the novel were all either left out or misinterpreted. All of them! :( Megan"}, {"response": 5, "author": "doone", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "Boy do I agree! I just watched the film this week, and I was like, WHAT WAS THAT! One question however, is Peter Firth (who played Mr. Tilney) related to Colin Firth? curious"}, {"response": 6, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (15:30)", "body": "No, Peter Firth and Colin Firth are not related. Colin does have an actor brother by the name of Jonathan, however. (I believe he has a sister as well, but I don't know her name.)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "I haven't seen this for ages, but I didn't have Cheryl's violent reaction. I have to say -- when the actor who plays Henry (forgive me if I'm misremembering; haven't read the novel in 15 years) goes back for Catherine and finds her in the woods and smacks her one - baby, I'm down with that!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Amy2 -- that is a nice scene, albeit a little melodramatic. I have given up the idea that an adaptation is going to be faithful to the book, although I didn't as much humor from this adaptation as I would have hoped for."}, {"response": 9, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Mar 21, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "I had to find my tape of this (yes, I own all the Austen adaptations, I think, except P&P0). I skimmed through most of it. Now I remember that something about the ending bothered me when I watched it before -- it is filmed as though it is another fantasy, though not a Gothic Romantic fantasy. Did any of the major players besides Peter Firth and Robert Hardy do film/tv work that we would know in the US? I thought I recognized the actor who played Henry's brother, but the name is not familiar."}, {"response": 10, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (08:52)", "body": "It has been almost a year since I saw this one, but I remember only too well my reaction to it. Isn't it amazing that you could get such an awful movie out of a JA novel?! I mean P&P0 was not good, but if you had never read the book, you might still be entertained. With this, however, I don't think you would even know what was going ON if you hadn't read the book!! And even having read the book, you still don't know what is going on!! I can't remember the particulars of the movie itself, and I'm not ure if I can bring myself to watch it again. There was no humor in it at all, and NA is SO funny!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (10:40)", "body": "There is one very good thing about this movie. It is the \"Quirky\" adaptation tha inspired Andrew Davies and Sue Birtwhistle to do \" Pride and Prejudice an d to make it look like a fresh,lively story about real people\" So, without this adaptation, we wouldn't be together, right? (and CF might not havebeen such an inspiration to us!) Seriously, though I watch my copy for Robert Hardy, Googie Withers and Peter Firth, there are some bits of the adaptation I enjoy- Catherine in the Apple Tree, and the silly \"taking the waters\" scenes"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (11:18)", "body": "Re the waters scenes: What are those plates? Is it food? Is it like having a cocktail at a swim-up bar?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (12:34)", "body": "If a group of 8th graders wrote and produced an adaption of a JA novel, I would probably enjoy it. I got up early Friday morning, turned on the VCR and fell asleep at halftime. Maybe sometime this weekend, I will get the watch the movie from start to finish. Henry's first scene was so 'off center\" that I thought the writers had given his opening lines to a different character, but he improved in the scenes that included Elinor. The Thorpes were just what they should be - brash and vulgar. Mr. and Mrs. Allen were fine. The fantasy sequences were acceptable to show us Catherine's state of mine. The carriage scenes looked ok. Maybe, after I see the rest of the movie, I will see something to dislike!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (12:53)", "body": "Maybe Lynn hit on why I disliked this so much. I enjoy NA, it's not my favorite JA, but it has several very funny sequences and LOL spots. I didn't laugh once during this production. I grimaced, I gaped, I smirked, I snickered, I snorted, I groaned, I rolled my eyes, but I never laughed out loud. The closest I came was during one of the fantasy sequences when the old lady was sewing her fingers together and that was more of a \"I can't believe they're doing that!\" than alaugh. \"Quirky\", indeed!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "Now I remember that Bath scene, where everyone is wearing a formal hat and a buttoned-up bathing costume, not to mention their dragging a tray of goodies around! Henry or someone - is this historically accurate? Or just another \"quirky\" touch?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "Wow -- where to start here...there is so much to comment on: First of all I taped it and I will probably watch it again (and even more than twice). I admit it, I am a hopeless JA junkie, and will satisfy myself with the \"cheep drugs\" (such as this bad production) as well as the \"expensive drugs\" (such as the very well done productions) The actress who played Catherine, I thought quite good. She seemed to portray with her eyes the essence of the character...seeing something right in front of her but so naive, that she just doesn't get it. The rest of the cast, ummm, how can I put this delicately, PeeEww!!! I did not like the costuming -- It was just too much...I much prefer the simplicity of P&P2 or Persuassion. As far as the adaption itself, I thought just OK -- Although what I simply cannot forgive was leaving out what I thought the most delightful scene in the whole book -- The conversation between Henry & Catherine in the carriage on the way to NA. In fact, I remember while reading the book, quite often I would have to exclaim right out loud \"delightful!\". I believe that the \"movie makers\" here lost this point...they seemed (especially with the music thoughout) to try to concentrate on the \"Gothic\" and not he perception of the young girl perceiving the \"Gothic\"."}, {"response": 17, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (14:04)", "body": "Wow -- where to start here...there is so much to comment on: First of all I taped it and I will probably watch it again (and even more than twice). I admit it, I am a hopeless JA junkie, and will satisfy myself with the \"cheep drugs\" (such as this bad production) as well as the \"expensive drugs\" (such as the very well done productions) The actress who played Catherine, I thought quite good. She seemed to portray with her eyes the essence of the character...seeing something right in front of her but so naive, that she just doesn't get it. The rest of the cast, ummm, how can I put this delicately, PeeEww!!! I did not like the costuming -- It was just too much...I much prefer the simplicity of P&P2 or Persuassion. As far as the adaption itself, I thought just OK -- Although what I simply cannot forgive was leaving out what I thought the most delightful scene in the whole book -- The conversation between Henry & Catherine in the carriage on the way to NA. In fact, I remember while reading the book, quite often I would have to exclaim right out loud \"delightful!\". I believe that the \"movie makers\" here lost this point...they seemed (especially with the music thoughout) to try to concentrate on the \"Gothic\" and not he perception of the young girl perceiving the \"Gothic\"."}, {"response": 18, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (14:04)", "body": "I did not post this twice!!!!!!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (15:02)", "body": "The costumes,hair, and make-up reminded me of the \"Restoration\" era. a gothic novel-Of a style of fiction that emphasizes the grotesque and mysterious. ] I believe that the \"movie makers\" here lost this point...they seemed (especially with the music thoughout) to try to concentrate on the \"Gothic\" and not the perception of the young girl perceiving the \"Gothic\". I agree Candace. Who said this was a gothic novel? While I was reading I thought it was more a comedy and about a young girls \"wild\" imagination. Compared to the book the movie was all wrong."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "Ok, the music...did it remind anyone else of the horrendously insipid music they use in soft-core porn movies? ;-) (never mind how I know!)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (16:53)", "body": "Oh, Cheryl, maybe you should hie yourself to confession? ;-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (17:55)", "body": "soft-core porn - which I know I would love but do not know how to find - or how to recognize. Can someone steer a middle-class, middle-age, small-town mother in the right direction?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (17:55)", "body": "I did not post that!!!!!!!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Karen", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (19:53)", "body": "Cheryl - ROTFLOL!! I kept trying to put my finger on where have I heard bad music like this before. It's that bad filler music that is trying to portray so type of depth or tension. It accompanies bad \"B\" movies as well. Though I haven't read NA yet I kept thinking what were these people thinking. It didn't have JA's witty humor. So much was over the top such as John Thropes character. But as Caroline has reminded us, good things can happen from bad movies. This \"quirky\" adaptation inspired P&P2; amazing isn't it;-)"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (20:07)", "body": "Katy dearest, one does not have to go looking for soft-core porn... I have certainly never gone looking for it, it simply appears on your TV as you are channel surfing through HBO or Showtime...suddenly there are these naked bodies and this awful music and it's like a car crash, you can't avert your eyes..."}, {"response": 26, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (21:20)", "body": "- oh no. that is why we discontinued HBO and Showtime - fav. teen is the only one who can stay up taht late!!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (22:25)", "body": "well, there you go! ;-)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "When she goes off to college!!!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (00:41)", "body": "\"it simply appears on your TV as you are channel surfing through HBO\" Such as Playmaker , perhaps?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (02:57)", "body": "]Such as Playmaker, perhaps? ______ Oh, but Ann, Playmakers has that one redeeming feature that makes it all worthwhile...;-P\""}, {"response": 31, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "I do believe that the credits were inaccurate...I am sure that the person who portrayed the General's confidant was really played by Keith Richard of the Rolling Stones, or was it Stephen Tyler of Aerosmith? Can someone explain the scene to me in which the little boy takes Catherine outside and does cartwheels? What was that? I certainly didn't get it."}, {"response": 32, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "AG, Candace!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:04)", "body": "I finished the tape today. I enjoyed it. no, it would not win any fans for the story or for JA, but I enjoyed it anyway. I liked the lawn scenes at the parsonage at the end. I though the general was spot on. but as I admitted earlier in this thread, I would enjoy any JA adaption. (but I hope no one messes with lady catherine again like P&P0 did!)"}, {"response": 34, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:41)", "body": "Cheryl : What was with the costumes, hair and makeup? As Henry Tilney mentions beheadings by guillotine and Jacobin partisanerie, this was then rather set around 1794-95. Time of the Directory Government in France and a Royal Proclamation against public meetings in England. If set then, it's in accordance with the times in the very early part of the Regency http://humanitas.ucsb.edu/projects/pack/rom-chrono/chrono5a.htm Kathleen : Did any of the major players besides Peter Firth and Robert Hardy do film/tv work Candace : he person who portrayed the General's confidant was really played by Keith Richard of the Rolling Stones, or was it Stephen Tyler of Aerosmith? Speachless, ROTFLOL haven't laugh like this in a long time !!! also : Can someone explain the scene to me in which the little boy takes Catherine outside and does cartwheels? What was that? I certainly didn't get it. Neither did I..."}, {"response": 35, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (17:01)", "body": "The hat/hair thing that really intrigued/confused me was the long curls coming out of some slits in the hat fabric? I know I missed some of the actors' lines just trying to figure it out."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (20:01)", "body": "Just rewatched NA last night, and am nearly through with re-reading the book. One thing I noticed in re-reading the original is that JA's voice is much more present than in any other book of hers -- she is the ironic narrator from beginning to end, and that gives the whole story its humour! I just love the very beginning where she introduces the Morland family: \"Her father was a clergyman, without being neglected or poor, and a very respectable man, though his name was Richard, and he had never been handsome.\" And about Catherine: \"She never could learn or understand anything before she was taught, and sometimes not even then, for she was often inattentive, and occasionally stupid.\" These humorous bits would have been impossible to put on film, but it does set up the whole story to the point you know you're not meant to take it seriously.! I didn't mind the film - the dream sequences I thought were overdone and when they passed N.A. on the way to Bath it was all wrong - they didn't pass it and the abbey was quite differently described in the book. I thought Catherine, the Allens and the General and even her parents were good in their roles. But I didn't care for Peter Firth at all -- just didn't like his looks, his smirks, his small eyes. John Thorpe, I thought, looked like everybody's idea of a second-hand car salesman and Isabella was uitably stupid. But what was that bathing scene doing there? And WHO was that confidante of the General's?? BTW - during the bathing scene all I could do was giggle and think about a similar scene in \"The Advocate\"! Maybe there was something to be said for the medieval French lack of inhibitions!! Didn't understand the boy's cartwheel scene at all, nor even the need for the small boy! Well - it wasn't JA or even N.A. as in the book, but I suppose we could call it an amusing diversion!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (03:37)", "body": "The book Northanger Abbey seems to be set about 1798-1799, during the same period when Jane Austen was actually working on Susan (the original version of Northanger Abbey -- Catherine Morland was originally named \"Susan\"). A lot of the gothic novels mentioned by Isabella were first published in 1798 or 1797."}, {"response": 38, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (08:57)", "body": "Well, I watched the movie on Friday night and finished the novel over the weekend. I could not match the two - I thought the movie was awful. Everytime I saw John Thorpe, he re-reminded me of Bugger from \"Revenge of the Nerds\". And the gothic music - this is not a movie I want to see again. Maybe if it was presented more like \"Alice in Wonderland\", it certainly had that feel about it."}, {"response": 39, "author": "doone", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (09:44)", "body": "wasn't the general played by the same actor from Sense & Sensibility2? I kept thinking were do I know this voice from."}, {"response": 40, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (11:18)", "body": "A while back Caroline nicely lend me her tape and here were my first impressions as given to her then : What can I say... I'm REALLY speechless. First because when I read the novel there were some passages I wasnt sure I comprehended fully but the viewing is not resolving this issue. The first thing is that it's not at all faitfull to the book although I believe it presents some basic concepts and emotions. If you discart any comparison to the book, as a movie by itself it was very enternaining. The music is cheesy but rather hypnotising. It follows you, giving a gothic feel, reminds me of bad rendition of Philip Glass. As a reminder of the punk era prevalent in the 80's,at the time of the filming, here is the Marchioness which/witch is not existant in the novel. Did'nt think much of the actress playing Cath, she acted well but too much in the same vein which is the innocent one from beginning to end, you do 't see any change nor maturity in her, was this what JA intended? to surreal. As for Mr. Firth's portrayal, well, the intent was probably to distinguish a very much accomplish modern man for the time, thus the singing and understanding much more refined compare to the older generation, like is unmannered, unrefined and vulgar father (I can hear Ms Bingley say : \"the singing, Louisa, the singing...\"). Altough he is not a particularly good looking man, Mr. Firth did'nt leave me cold. It's my first encounter with this actor and he mesmerized me. There is a definite teasing, flirtaciou way in his play, and I found this very becoming. Some aspects of an accomplished man at the time must have seen rather sissyish to a man like his father. Have they played the gothic theme just a tad to much? And what of the romantic scene, especially at the end? Not at all JA, but I enjoyed these very much for the sheer pleasure of romance. After numerous viewing now I'm more indulgent on this movie and of Catherine's portrayal but still enjoy the plain romance in it. Although you have to discart this as any type of JA rendition, like other movies, it grows on you."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "You were right about the voices, Lorna. General Tilney and Sir John in S&S2 are played by another favourite of mine Robert Hardy. Remember him as a favourite of Queen Elizabeth I in a British film(1971:Elizabeth R available on video with Glenda Jackson as the queen.) It was not Essex, she called him Robin...I've been to the remainders of his castle in England. No, memory fails."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (19:22)", "body": "Dear LornaDoone(nice name by the way, Exmoor's one of my favourite places) Robert Hardy- as in \"Middlemarch\", \"All Creatures Great and Small\" several \"Miss Marples\" and just about every other Brit Costume Classic of the last two decades, is the General."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (19:42)", "body": "Did you all notice the peacocks on Catherine's arrival at the abbey? Remember that whole debate? I could not find it in the old board archives. Now, what is the story about this became the inspiration for P&P2? I don't understand."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "Amy- I quoted from \"The Making OF P&P\", Introduction, first paragraph, by Sue Birtwhistle. Apparently, she and Andrew Davies were watching this production together when they got the idea for P&P."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (21:30)", "body": "Peacocks-did you mean the Rooks cawing in the \"Lettr\" scene? It's at the beginning of the second \"adaptation\" archive, I think."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (21:59)", "body": "Robert Hardy, also, as Churchill. One of his best roles, IMHO, and he really looked like Churchill!!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (23:49)", "body": "We should watch this together on line in the drawing room. I'd kind of hate to do it with a movie that needs to be attended to and worshipped. But this one would be appropriately Mystery Science 2000-like."}, {"response": 48, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (00:26)", "body": "Amy: Mystery Science 3000-like. Definately! We could come up with much better lines than the writers did! ;-)"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (00:29)", "body": "I think it would be a hoot to do P&P2 that way. We all know it so well, that we wouldn't exactly have to be attentive to the screen while watching."}, {"response": 50, "author": "janea", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (03:38)", "body": "I bought Northanger Abbey some months ago. I was very glad when I found it, \ufffdcause I thought it was something like the other adaptations. But it is horrible! I watched halfway and then I gave up. Now I\ufffdm gonna watch it again. Not because I think it\ufffdll be better, but because it\ufffds so fun discussing with you."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Vivsy", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "I just watched NA yesterday. Yuccckkkk!!!! I had previously read the book. A lot of it didn't seem to match. Candace your remarks about Stephen Tyler and Keith Richards--ROFLOL. It seems to be doing them an injustice. I believe that even Dennis Rodman uses less makeup. The food plates in the bath were a mystery to me. The hair and makeup of the Thorpes was too much. I know they're supposed to be crass, But come on. Henry Tilney was okay once they left Bath. Catherine did a good job. I don't think I could watch it again unless it was a Mystery Science Theater 3000 experience. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 202, "subject": "What we enjoy in P&P2...", "response_count": 46, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (04:57)", "body": "Let's see, in P&P2, when Darcy quickly changes into decent attire to meet Lizzy on his ground at Pemberly. Liked the way, he initally excused himself from her (very abruptly) and then can imagine him changing frantically and as he hurried out the door, there was a doorman looking on. Him looking on at the carriage taking Lizzy and the Gardiners away from Pemberly. He had that priceless look and pose. If this topic was open to other adaptations, like Emma, I would be posting here endlessly."}, {"response": 2, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (08:57)", "body": "There are so many, I must watch it again to remember the specifics, then come back.....what a pity!! :-) Be back in 6 hours!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (10:55)", "body": "Since you ask, Karen, I enjoy the \"Nature\" motifs that they put into the adaptation- the use of birdsong (in the proposal scenes, the letter-writing scene, the Ramsgate scenes) and the references to trees (horse-chestnuts, Lydia's humming, the use of the Rosings beeches) Just for the record, they also did a really good job of choosing the right regional architecture for the different places, too, much more successfully than in Emma3. I can look at scenes, adn say, yes, that really looks like Derbyshire, r yes, Hertfordshire houses do look like that."}, {"response": 4, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "I enjoy all the scenes where Darcy & Lizzy politely quarrel back & forth as the tension creates a sort of sexual energy between the characters that cannot be explicitly expressed. I especially enjoy the scene at the ball where Lizzy presses Darcy to carry on some sort of conversation as they dance so that she might form an opinion about his character. Very tense indeed. The scene where Darcy is fencing (\"I shall conquer this!\") & the \"cold shower\" scene in the lake help to express Darcy's \"desires\" as wel . I think these were good brief additions to the original story line of the novel. They make Darcy more human and touchable; more longing and loving."}, {"response": 5, "author": "sandysearing", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (11:46)", "body": "Well, I think there's just too many to count, but I have to add my vote to the scene where Lizzy leaves Pemberly after the surprise meeting. Listen to the music as she turns around and sees Darcy standing there. It's perfect. I also like \"the look\" they exchange the next evening at Pemberly while Georgiana is playing."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (15:29)", "body": "Karen, you created this after I bailed out of chat last night! Do you ever sleep? ;-) Caroline, I also love the birdsong throughout this production. I downloaded a lot of Darcy's comments onto my computer, and every time one plays from an outside scene I'm struck by the birds singing. Beautiful! One of my favorite mental snapshots is the pose Darcy strikes as he watches Lizzy and the Gardiners leave Pemberley in the carriage. I think it's supposed to be what Lizzy sees as she looks back. I would have leaped out of the carriage..."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "Sorry, Sandy, I just realized that's the scene you were talking about above! Guess I wasn't listening to the music there... ;-P\""}, {"response": 8, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (16:10)", "body": "The places where Lizzie goes about being herself without regard: - walking to Netherfield, over the stile, skirts amess, shoulder shrug - playing with the dog despite the atmosphere not being conducive - running through the wood at Rosings - appreciating the scenery on the rocks with the Gardiners"}, {"response": 9, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (19:11)", "body": "I must admit that one of the sections of my tape that is thoughly worn through is when Lizzie comes upon Mr. Darcy at Netherfield after her three mile walk...I love her look of obstinance and his smile is priceless. He looks as though he want to just laugh out loud, but too much the gentleman to do so. When Lizzie asks him to direct her to her sister, oh my, that little jerk he does just sends me over the edge! Sigh!!! Then they walk towards the house...prey, forgive me...I just love the way this man moves!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Karen", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (19:39)", "body": "Taking a cue from Candace (I love that scene too)... I love watching his coat flow in that scene and when the men are coming in from hunting. Although the overall scene was painful, at the Netherfield Ball (the sit down dinner part) when Mary is about to play her second number. Elizabeth's expression is priceless. She is trying to stay calm but her eyes are popping out of her head. The poor thing.:-("}, {"response": 11, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "Any scene with Darcy in the grey coat always does something to me. I loved the way he walked back to Rosings after the first proposal-so tortured. Yes-CAndace the man can move. I also loved JE's reaction when she steps in the mud-pure Lizzy-let's get on with it attitude. Other fav scenes: The fencing scene tops my list-I shall conquer this. I shall! The billiard room sequence. That's heat! The pianoforte scene at Rosings-\"we neither of us perform to strangers..\" -and especially the Pemberley scenes. I was completely charmed by CF's \"but your good opinion is not easily bestowed and therfore more worth the earning.\" Did anyone love CF's reactions/look when he is in the carriage on the way to London to track Wickham down? For me, that's 15 seconds of intense, brooding, tortured passion in motion!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (20:14)", "body": "Ooh! I love 'em when they're tortured! ;-)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "I'll try not too go on too long... One thing that always strikes me as funny is Mr Collins at breakfast the day after the proposal--he grunts like a pig at the trough, and his mouth is so full he cannot even say anything to Lizzy. At Pemberley, when he comes running out to catch Lizzy before they leave, I am always struck by how hard it must have been to come out of his shell and be so polite with the Gardiners. He really exerted himself, and of course he probably would have done anything to keep Lizzy there for awhile!! I too love the look back when she is leaving, and him standing there looking after her. I am so glad I am not the only one who loves the way those coats follow the men in the hunting scene and that other scene outside Netherfield! So..manly, or somthing. And you are all right, he really CAN walk!! I also love the look on Darcy's face when he comes back to Longbourn after J&B are engaged. He comes in, bows to Lizzy, and then stares at her, as if he thinks he might find some trace of her feelings for him there, searching her eyes. And yet he has a little bet of torture in his face, too. Heart rending, even though it only lasts a few seconds. I would melt then and there!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (21:32)", "body": "I agree with all of the above. My tape is worn in just about all the Darcy moments - at this point I may have to invest in a second set of tapes!! Other moments I love are the arguments at Netherfield, especially the second evening discussing vanity and pride. He looks like he doesn't know whether to laugh or be angry with Lizzie, ends up admitting too much for his own good, and is absolutely befuddled by the end - and that lovely stare at the end!! Another moment for me is when he's writing the letter, comes to the part about Georgiana and his face is so tortured as he remembers all the pain. Love it when Lizzie looks back while leaving Pemberley and he stands there. Wonder if it reminded her of the portrait she'd just seen - it did remind me of that - the master at home in his own garden! No wonder her love started from her first seeing the grounds at Pemberley -- look what she saw there!! Then, of course, there is the scene in the Lambton Inn after reading Jane's letter with Lizzie's tears and his worried look. I could go on and on - I don't think there is a moment that is not a favorite, it's just that some are more favorite than others!!;-)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Sat, Mar 22, 1997 (23:13)", "body": "Ingrid - I too loved the scene at Lambton Inn when Lizzie was crying & Darcy takes her hand to comfort her. You can tell he wants to just envelope her in his arms but must remain \"reserved.\" I love it when he keeps putting his hand up to his face because he is so obviously distressed by Lizzie's grief. Also, when Darcy is so surprised to see Lizzy \"on foot\" to visit sick Jane, you can tell he is impressed by her strength & fortitude even though she is not extremely pleased to see him. I think at this point he has already developed a fondness for her. All of the scenes from Pemberley are to die for. I love the look on his face when Lizzy comes to Georgianna's rescue from Miss Bingley's \"Wickham\" comments. And the way he laboured all night over his letter to Elizabeth at Lady Catherine's estate. Poor tortoured soul!!!!! And I agree with all of you that there is definetly something very manly & sexy about those coats - especially when Darcy is wearing them!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (00:48)", "body": "In the scene where the Gardiners and Lizzy are leaving Pemberley and she looks back at Darcy, I wish they had done a close-up of Firth. Before she turns, he must have been hoping and praying that she would. When she does finally turn, he must have had the sweetest smile on his face. But then, perhaps it is better to leave it to the imagination."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Megan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (02:23)", "body": "Oh yes! All of the above are my favourites too. I am sure somebody must have mentioned these before, but here's a few more: - The double-take. - When Lizzy looks up and sees him by the window as they arrive at the Netherfield ball. You can tell he's been waiting for her. - His first look as he sees her come in with Bingley and Jane at the Netherfield ball. - When he smiles as Lizzy dances with Mr.Collins right after his small accident. - Darcy's walk down the hall at Pemberly after the second visit. Absolute favourite scenes: The dance at the Netherfield ball. First visit to Pemberley. My favourite line:\"Your good opinion is rarely bestowed and therefore more worth the earning\" First time in my life, I have ever seen a screen adaptation that I liked even better than the novel itself. I think all those extra scenes that we all seem to love enhances the beauty, the humour, the romance in the novel in a way JA would have approved. I absolutely love the whole thing! But don't we all.."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (03:21)", "body": "Just watched the last 2 hours again, and the scene where (after everyone has gone to bed, I guess) and Darcy walks back with candlelight to the paino room and recalls the look Lizzy had given him, when she was turning the page for Miss Darcy, his dreamy, longing, wishing, hoping and loving facial expression..hmmm"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (07:11)", "body": "This topic was a good idea, Karen. I like hearing from the newer people about their special moments too."}, {"response": 20, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (10:24)", "body": "Another memorable scene is when Darcy arrives at the Collins's to propose to Elizabeth and he is quite tortoured and out of breath. He moves about the room nervously from mantel, to chair, to standing in front of her with heavy breath. She has no idea what he is up to and thinks him the fool as always. \"No, this will not do!\""}, {"response": 21, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (10:35)", "body": "In the Rosings scenes, I can't get enough of Barbara Leigh-Hunt. She is a scream. My favorite is when she first meets Lizzy and asks her a question about her sisters being \"out,\" and Lizzy replies, but then--scandalous!!--goes on to offer her own opinion. L-H has turned her head the other way, in dismissal, but Lizzy's continuing to speak causes her to swivel her head slowly to the left, her eyebrows arching in amazement--\"What! The chit is still talking!\" Priceless!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (11:03)", "body": "Megan, \"the walk down the hall\" Don't you know he's really skipping inside! \"She's been here ! In my home!\""}, {"response": 23, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (11:13)", "body": "Cindy - that \"stride\" down the hall is euphoric indeed!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Vivsy", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (11:18)", "body": "I like the scenes at Hunsford Parsonage and Rosings when Lizzie is teasing Darcy. The expressions on Colonel Fitzwilliams face show that he his highly amused by Darcy's discomfort. Also, the scene at the Netherfield ball when Mr. Collins comes up to Darcy and starts speaking to him unannounced. Darcy has a look of absolute astonishment, then disgust on his face. Also, watch Darcy at Lucas Lodge when Mrs. Bennet tells Mary that \"No one wants to hear your concertos!\" He is very discomfitted by her lack of manners and propriety."}, {"response": 25, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (12:01)", "body": "I also love the facial expressions when Jane receives the letter from Caroline inviting her to dine with them. When Mrs. Bennett suggests that it looks like rain and Jane will be forced to spend the night, the look on Jane's face is that of complete horror. And Mr. Bennett looking out the window and back at Jane is marvelous. I envision him thinking \"Well, she reeled me in -- I guess she knows of what she speaks.\""}, {"response": 26, "author": "kate", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (12:02)", "body": "definitely the walk down the hall with the candles and dogs. the music playing is a reprise of the scene before (of Lizzy's song? I can't remember) When Lizzy arrives at the inn ant he's there with Georgiana \"No, not at all\" and that brief glimpse you get of him when L is talking to Bingley at the inn, and Darcy is behind him, almost smiling, because Lizzy is getting on so well with Georgiana When Lizzy and Georgiana are talking about Darcy at the piano, and they both look over at him and he realises they're talking about him. the long coats fencing at Pemberly: \"You're not leaving?\" When he rides in front of her in the forest at Rosings and just gives her this really long look (and I haven't seen it since June!)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "bernhard", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (12:13)", "body": "My, Kate, then you're doing really well. (yes, it was Lizzie's song)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (12:41)", "body": "Kate, I love that look too! He lets down his guard, and he has a schoolboy look, like what are they saying about me? He knows he is the center of their attention, and is enjoying it. I also like the scene that shows Mrs Bennets transition from hysterical mother to perfect composure just before Hill announces B and D. I think Mr Collins' scenes are very comical. (The ones with Darcy go without saying!:-)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:52)", "body": "How about Alison Steadman as Mrs Bennet? Whenever I need a good laugh, I just watch her: \"The very demon from Hell sent to ruin us all. Oh sister, OH SISTER STOP! And when Bingley comes to propose and she runs down the hall, curlpapers and all: \"Oh JAne-He has come! Five more minutes will do the trick\" I also loved the way she ran after Mr Collins after his refusal. And the way you can hear her screaching voice outside, when Charlotte is tallking to Kitty and Lydia. Hysterical! \"Those Lucases were always such artful creatures. They are jus out for what they can get.\""}, {"response": 30, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:01)", "body": "#11 'Did anyone love CF's reactions/look when he is in the carriage on the way to London to track Wickham down? For me, that's 15 seconds of intense, brooding, tortured passion in motion!' No, no, you've got it all wrong! He (like Roger and Elaine) is actually worrying about when the coach wheels were last replaced, and if the horse on the right that had the lame foot and shoe problems will make the distance."}, {"response": 31, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "Funny Hil."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Megan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:06)", "body": "Yes Cindy, yes! I also thought he was skipping inside as he walks down the hall. He is hopeful for the first time about her feelings towards him. As he goes by the fireplace and looks at the piano, you can tell he wants her there by his side, always... Sighhh! If I don't stop writing now, I won't be able to hold my tears any longer.."}, {"response": 33, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:38)", "body": "One of my favorites is when he's alone in the billiard room and Lizzie unexpectedly arrives. You can see that he wants to talk to her, that he's attracted to her but that his reserve gets in the way of entering into a conversation with her. Then when she leaves the room, he regrets his inaction and he forcefully hits that ball into the pocket. I can just imagine what he really wanted to do with her then!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:47)", "body": "Lisa - I agree he really wants to talk to her in this scene and in others to follow, but I think he is frustrated by the stand-offish way Lizzy always approaches him, which in turn puts him on the defensive. And he knows deep inside it is because she overheard the rude things he said about her at the \"country dance.\" Interesting thought about his forceful pool playing!!!:-)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "EmilyS", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:49)", "body": "What I love about P&P2 is that it's such a great,clean romance movie that for some wonderful reason, I can watch it over and over again without losing that wanting to watch it again feeling. I have so many favorite parts in it, but I have to say, my favorite is when Lizzy is at Pemberley and runs into Mr. Darcy. It really shows how much he loves her and it shows Lizzy that Mr.Darcy is really a good person and not as proud as everyone thinks he is. I think the whole movie is my favorite part!!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Yeago", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (20:04)", "body": "One more please...when Lady Catherine is framed by the garden door, stretches out her arms- (\"Are the grounds of Pemberly ...polluted speech) beautiful! (There are a few people I would love to stand up to, maybe thats why I like this one in TV and in the book) Wish I knew all the actors names, they deserve that much!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Megan", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (01:23)", "body": "About one of our favourite scenes: Do you think Darcy is a little embarassed too when they run into each other after his swim? Maybe because he is soaking wet and not formally attired? I like to think that he is. It gives another explanation to why he cuts the conversation short, other than being startled and not being able to find something to say other than repeating himself. It also creates some equality between them, both look vulnerable. Megan"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (03:01)", "body": "Darcy being caught in his swimmers was an excellent touch, it must have been embarrassing already as it was, to meet someone who had rejected his high-handed proposal because of his arrogance and family pride and then to run into her, almost undressed on your very own family estate!! Absolutely hilarious. And that bath scene where he looks out of Netherfield bathroom to see Lizzy playing fetch the stick with the dog, which made her appear so unlike stiff-elegant women of the time."}, {"response": 39, "author": "mpk", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (07:04)", "body": "I've enjoyed reading all the fave scenes, all of which I concur most heartily. I love the way Darcy just rolls his eyes when his aunt wants her share of the conversation after he and Lizzy have been bantering by the piano at Rosings. I agree that Lady Catherine is a scream...I love the look she gives Lizzy (presumably she is looking at Lizzy) just before the first scene at Rosings ends. JE was such a hoot in that scene when she continues to talk and asks for Sir Williams's (Charlotte Lucas's father-- I seem to have forgotten his name at the moment!) opinion to which he can only sit there befuddled and speechless. The smiles that JE and Charlotte Lucas exchange at that moment are priceless indeed!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "I love it when he plays with his pinky ring. Shows how nervous he is. Also, I prefer his green coat. Would love to have the Netherfield robe for myself."}, {"response": 41, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (11:40)", "body": "After the swim, bumps into Lizzy, charing a few words then : a couple of tap on his chest (near his heart) with the nob of his cane and then bearly mumbling \"excuse me\""}, {"response": 42, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (12:54)", "body": "I find it very hard to keep quiet too, Hil...you found a way out ROTFLOL...Guess we have had our fun, better let the other young ladies have time to exhibit, eyh?? It is delightful reading. Oh, I am giving in ...And I heve chosen my moment well, you won\ufffdt be able to laugh at this one. The switching of scenes from the knight on his white horse to the formal portrait of Darcy in the gallery - Lizzie fascinated - and outdoors again to the real man , dusty and hot, getting rid of his formal attire ...unbutto ing waistcoat ...to throw himself into the \ufffdwater\ufffd ??"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (12:56)", "body": "Who is conquering what?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (13:55)", "body": "Not you, Ann!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (20:41)", "body": "Do you think that he was on his way to ask her to marry him again, the day she gets the letters from Jane? Or just to try to reinforce all the good things that happened the night before? I love how abrupt he his with his valet when getting ready for that ride!! I love this topic - makes me relive everything over and over!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (09:07)", "body": "Lynn, that's the impression I got since he was so particular about how he dressed. That was a good touch. I don't think we get that impression from novel though. Whenever Darcy looks in her direction, throughout the entire 6 hrs, my heart skips a beat.. I must be a hopeless romantic. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 203, "subject": "Cold Comfort Farm", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (00:50)", "body": "I saw something nasty in the woodshed! Of course you did deary, but did it see you?!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (01:40)", "body": "LOL, Ann! Okay, I am going to say this so it seems like I actually had an original thought... Does anyone think that Flora was very Emma-like in her desire to improve others, fix up their lives and generally orchestrate everything going on around her?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (03:19)", "body": "What a thoroughly, absolutely delightful little hoot of a movie! I really liked this one, and found it a lot of fun -- no, excuse me, I found it amusing and diverting. Favorite moments: When Flora covers her cup to keep Mr. Myberg's conversational spray from getting into it. When Adam yanks her away from the restaurant after she leaves his sermon, melodramatically saying, \"Come, lady! It's back to Cold Comfort for you!\" When Mr. Myberg says \"Miss Post, I love you!\" on the dance floor at the Haltermonitors (sp?). Awhile back, we talked on one of the threads about certain phrases to be sung out in unison at showings. I would like to suggest: Robert Post's child! I saw something nasty in the woodshed. (Yes, Ann, love the \"But did it see you, baby?\" Sure stops her in her tracks, doesn't it?) There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm. Did you notice how everyone in the movie was moving their lips to the last two? Rufus Sewell, although I can see the commotion about him, didn't do it for me. He reminded me a little of Marty Feldman (I think it was the eyes), and the kinky hair was a turn-off, but I liked his character. ]Does anyone think that Flora was very Emma-like in her desire to improve others, fix up their lives and generally orchestrate everything going on around her? _____ I definitely did, Barbara. In fact, I kept thinking about how I could see why they wanted her to play Emma, because she'd already had some practice. She was a lot more successful here, though. I did get a kick out of her and Charles's comments to each other at the end: \"You know, I never did approve of you interfering in other people's lives. So I shan't be allowed to interfere in yours?\""}, {"response": 4, "author": "Andee1", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (11:17)", "body": "I definitely saw the connection between Flora and Emma, but I liked Flora much better for her meddling. She wasn't just looking to make the people married, she was helping them make themselves truly happy and follow ams. Truly a delightful film-I'm making the video store angry I'm sure, because I didn't return it on time, so I could watch it again. Kate Beckinsale was perfect in this role, much more so than in Emma3. I cracks me up how she is so nonchalant about moving in with the Starkadders, (as there have always been Starkadders on Cold Comfort Farm). Emma I think would have rather died than move in that circle. Any guesses as to 1. What the nasty in the woodshed was? and 2. What the great wrong was that was commited against Flora's father? Let's use our imaginations!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (12:07)", "body": "Loved the movie! After so many years, I've finally figured out what the Kinks song \"Muswell Hillbilly's\" is about. ;-)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "kimmer", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "Susan, watch Rufus Sewll in Middlemarch. Much better there. I enjoyed this movie, too. It made me laugh quite a bit."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Nina", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:08)", "body": "I also liked this movie a lot. I agree that Kate Bekinsale is more Emma-like in this movie than in Emma3. One of my favorite lines was when Mr. Neck, the hollywood producer (after surveying the house at Cold Comfort) said, \"Is the house of usher open? May I come in?\" Some other funny moments were when the men were chasing after the bull and the \"quivering bretheren\" section. Also, I found it interesting that they only strayed from the plot of the book once. In the book it is Mr. Meyerbug who i enamored by Rennet, not Reuben. Does anyone have a guess as to why they changed that one point? Anyway, I thought that Cold Comfort Farm was a great movie and I definitely recommend it."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (20:22)", "body": "This movie gave me a good solid laught almost from the very beginning, with Joanna Lumley. I really liked Kate Beckinsale - and yes, she's Emma but not the Emma of J.A. or Clueless - she's really Emma who is clued in to making everyone happy. One of the funniest moments not mentioned yet is when Seth goes off to Hollywood with the GWTW theme playing as they drive away - I really cracked up over that one! Nina, maybe they changed Mr. Mybug for Reuben because who could feel enamored by Stephen Fry!!;-) SF is going to be Oscar Wilde in an upcoming film, and I think he was practising for the part here!! I thoroughly enjoyed this diversion and will have to watch it again later tonight, if I don't fall asleep first! It's due back tomorrow! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 204, "subject": "The Letter", "response_count": 29, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (09:27)", "body": "One thing that bugged me about the dramatization of the letter was that it failed to include a vital bit of information (at least I think so). When I first saw P&P2, I had not read the book, so I could not figure out why Wickham wanted revenge because it seemed that Darcy treated him pretty fairly, based on the letter scene. After reading the book, though, it makes since because you find the motivation for Wickham's revenge. I think the fact that Wickham asks for the postion he formerly declined three (?) years later, when he has run out of money (and the position had been filled) and Darcy tells him no--this is what sets up Wickham revenge, because in Wickham's mind, the position was always there and waiting--a safety net, if you will. When Darcy removes this, Wickham is angered and turns vicious. Darcy says something about Wickham accusations to him at the time being no less severe than those he has since made to acquain ances. (Don't have the book with me today, so can't quote exactly)."}, {"response": 2, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (11:10)", "body": "I think in first reading the letter, Elizabeth is still quite angry with Darcy for all his past \"sins,\" especially for breaking up Jane & Bingley. Eg. \"Insufferable presumptions\" and \"Hateful man.\" But I think over time as she has an opportunity to reflect on his words, she sees that much of what he relates is true (especially with regard to her family which is much less \"reserved\" than Darcy's). She certainly sees him in a different light with regard to Wickham."}, {"response": 3, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (12:26)", "body": "One thing that has always bothered me about the letter is as follows: Why doesn't Elizabeth tell Jane that Bingley really does love her but that his plans to propose to her were thwarted by Darcy & company. It seems that this revelation would have given Jane some comfort and perhaps directed her as to how to respond to Bingley's affections in the future. Does Lizzy not tell because Darcy has petitioned her to keep the information in the letter to herself? Why then does she go on to tell Jane about Wickham & Georgianna? Does she feel the news about Bingley & Janes's heart which is \"not easily touched\" will hurt her further? Or is it maybe because she has a new-found respect for Darcy & would not want him to be viewed poorly in Jane & everyone else's eyes? Many already dislike him so perhaps she was trying to restore his \"goodness\" among the masses?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Dina", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (12:45)", "body": "Why doesn't Elizabeth tell Jane that Bingley really does love her but that his plans to propose to her were thwarted by Darcy & company. It seems that this revelation would have given Jane some comfort.... Maybe she was trying instead to spare her. It's not like Jane could follow-up or encourage Bingley in any way. Look how Lizzie didn't have a chance to speak to Darcy after she found out his involvment in the Lydia affair. He came over several times and then was gone. She only got to speak after J&B were engaged. Also Lizzie didn't share too much information about her changed feelings for Darcy either. I think she was trying to spare Jane the pain of thinking \"he loves me but not enough to do something ab ut it\"."}, {"response": 5, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:08)", "body": "I am supremely gratified you found my topic worthy of discussion!! :-) I feel like a fully indoctrinated \"member\" now!! About the reversal of the topics in the production - I too had wondered this, but watched it again yesterday - what torture! :-) - and think it may be because of how they wanted it staged - Darcy gives the background on Wickham, then they go to him actually giving the letter to Lizzy, then they show her alone, reading the stuff about her family. But in the book, she was outraged about the things he said about her family until she read what he wrote about Wickham, and this made her go back and reread the tuff about her family. Just a thought. I think that Lizzy never told Jane about the Bingley part of the letter because she didn't want to give Jane any false hopes. She thought that Mr. Darcy must hate her after how she treated him during the proposal, and she didn't dream that Darcy would give Bingley his 'approval' to go after Jane."}, {"response": 6, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:12)", "body": "Another thing - the letter is a real turning point for Lizzy in that up until now she has prided herself on her ability to read people, to understand their natures. Now she has to face the fact that she has completely misjudged not one person, but two, Wickham and Darcy. It makes her doubt everything she has thought about herself up until now. This letter would have changed her life, even if she never ended up marrying Darcy."}, {"response": 7, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (17:00)", "body": "Why doesn't Elizabeth tell Jane that Bingley really does love her but that his plans to propose to her were thwarted by Darcy & company. It seems that this revelation would have given Jane some comfort.... I agree that Lizzy didn't want to give Jane more pain by giving her false hopes, but I also wonder if she doesn't tell Jane because she doesn't want her to think badly of Darcy! One of the first things Darcy asks Elizabeth after they come to their understanding is whether the letter soon made her think better of him. The letter obviously made her begin to think better of him immediatley, and was important enough to her that she kept it, as she still had it when Darcy proposed to her again. Maybe she didn't want Jane to hate Darcy as much as she had formerly done herself."}, {"response": 8, "author": "bplaroch", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (17:02)", "body": "Oh, and I forgot to say that Elizabeth knows how distressing it is to Jane to have to think badly of anyone. I guess she feels the revelation about Wickham's character to be necessary."}, {"response": 9, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (17:05)", "body": "Barbara - I agree with all of your above statements!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Genette", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (17:25)", "body": "I definitely agree that the letter is a turning/change point for Elizabeth. Off the top of my head, there's a line soon after the letter, something to the effect of \"I felt I had never known myself until that moment.\" So, the letter introduced a lot of food for thought for Elizabeth. She was embarrassed that she'd been taken in so completely by Wickham. She stopped being angry at Bingley. She realized that Bingley and Jane's separation had left them both unhappy. She felt stupid for thinking Darcy had treated Wickham so badly. She was embarrassed about the way her family behaved in general. She began to change in her feelings for Darcy. AND she saw no benefit in making Jane feel as bad as she did over all of the e things. That's a lot of food for thought!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Vivsy", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (22:13)", "body": "I think Elizabeth immediately believed Darcy about Wickham and was embarrassed because she had been so easily deceived. She did not tell Jane why Bingley left because (1) there was probably nothing she could do about it, (2) she did not want to tell Jane that it was her family that, in a sense, ruined her chance with Bingley, and (3) she also did not want Jane to think badly of Darcy since she had already misjudged him so badly."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (23:06)", "body": "I agree with the reasons given above for Lizzy not telling Jane. Austen says it explicitly in the book that not even Jane is forgiving enough to forget what Darcy did, so Lizzy didn't want her sister to know about it."}, {"response": 13, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (23:09)", "body": "Why doesn't Elizabeth tell Jane that Bingley really does love her but that his plans to propose to her were thwarted by Darcy & company. It seems that this revelation would have given Jane some comfort and perhaps directed her as to how to respond to Bingley's affections in the future. Does Lizzy not tell because Darcy has petitioned her to keep the information in the letter to herself? Chapter 40 contains Lizzie's conversation with Jane on this subject, and directly explains why she did not tell Jane about Darcy's role in redirecting Bingley's affections: The tumult of Elizabeth's mind was allayed by this conversation. [in which she tells about Darcy's proposal and about Wickham's seduction of Georgiana] She had got rid of two of the secrets which had weighed on her for a fortnight, and was certain of a willing listener in Jane, whenever she might wish to talk again of either. But there was still something lurking behind, of which prudence forbad the disclosure. She dared not relate the other half of Mr. Darcy's letter, nor explain to her sister how sincerely she had been valued by his friend. Here was knowledge in which no one could partake; and she was sensible that nothing less than a perfect understanding between the parties could justify her in throwing off this last incumbrance of mystery. ``And then,'' said she, ``if that very improbable event should ever take place, I shall merely be able to tell what Bingley may tell in a much more agreeable manner himself. The liberty of communication cannot be mine till it has lost all its value!''"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Megan", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (00:36)", "body": "I know this is not what you've been talking about here, but I just want to squeeze in my thoughts concerning the letter. How wonderful it is that a man would go straight to his pen and paper to reveal what he couldn't face to face, and shares his most intimate secrets to gain the understanding of the woman he loves. You can tell that there is future for these two, even when she refuses him. They openly discuss their feelings. (Lizzy during the proposal scene, and Darcy both during the proposal scene and with the letter. I also like comparing Mr. Collins' proposal scene with Darcy's and how different her reactions were. She idn't even bother talking to Mr. Collins. Darcy and Lizzy were synchronized at some level. They were actually communicating. Oooops I am discussing another topic. Better get back!) To me, the letter shows that he is not giving up on her, even after such a powerful rejection. I admired him when he questioned why he had been refused and I admired him even more when he wrote that letter. I find the letter terribly romantic for what it symbolizes, despite its contents. Megan"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (02:49)", "body": "I agree with Vivian that Lizzy did not want Jane to think any worse of Dacry than already in circulation at Meryton. She probably realised that this is the one man she was slowly growing to Respect, especially in light of the letter and the discoveries of her misjudgement in both Wickham and Darcy. Perhaps, she started to realise how embarrassingly her family had behaved and that Darcy's \"to him (Bingley) I had been knder than to myself\" was beginning to flatter her - here was a man of consequence in the orld and to be so singled out by him and enough to want to marry her must have been very overpowering. The contents of the letter shoke up the status quo of her world."}, {"response": 16, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (05:53)", "body": "In chapt 38, while Lizzy and Jane are both in London, JA says this of Lizzy's contemplations about sharing part of the letter with Jane: \"the state of indecision in which she remained as to the extent of what she should communicate; and her fear, if she once entered in the subject, of being hurried into repeating something of Bingley which might only grieve her sister further.\" I tend to believe that lizzy holds back to help the plot. If she tells Jane everything, the suspense regarding both relationships at the end of the novel is lessened. Jane will know Bingley loves her and is coming back to her when he comes back to Netherfield, and she and Bingley will exchange enough information to speed Lizzy and Darcy's relationship along."}, {"response": 17, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (11:11)", "body": "I always thought that Lizzy's feelings for Darcy changed from hate to love after reading the letter, but she would not admit it to herself at the time. So much information was given to her in that letter that it took her quite some time to figure everything out, including what to tell Jane. Then, when she does see Pemberley for the first time, it truly is a great disappointment. She realizes how much her feelings have changed and wants to somehow acknowledge them to him. It makes their unexpected meeting much more electric."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Cleo", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (15:10)", "body": "I had not read the book when I first saw the movie. (I did, however, purchasae it the nest day!) What struck me was that I had no indication from the film that Elizabeth's character \"grew\" as a result of The Letter. I have said it before, that I feel this was not well addressed by the screenplay. I feel JE did her best considering what she was given (a heavy release of breath in exasperation, some exaggerated flashbacks, etc.) I would like to have seen her coming to terms with herself as clearly as Darc 's character growth was played out. Secondly, I though that Ms. Austen did a great thing with the timing of The Letter. Throughout the book we see a pattern of action or event followed by Jane and Elizabeth debriefing, action or event, Jane and Elizabeth debriefing. Suddenly, the biggest event and \"no Jane to comfort me\". Indeed, Lizzie is forced to look at herself in the mirror rather than sound off to a sympathetic ear. To me this is significant, as most of us would have the urge to \"run for help/guidance\" rather than look this closel at ourselves and at our mistakes. Your thoughts? Cleo"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Cleo", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (15:17)", "body": "I had not read the book when I first saw the movie. (I did, however, purchasae it the nest day!) What struck me was that I had no indication from the film that Elizabeth's character \"grew\" as a result of The Letter. I have said it before, that I feel this was not well addressed by the screenplay. I feel JE did her best considering what she was given (a heavy release of breath in exasperation, some exaggerated flashbacks, etc.) I would like to have seen her coming to terms with herself as clearly as Darc 's character growth was played out. Secondly, I though that Ms. Austen did a great thing with the timing of The Letter. Throughout the book we see a pattern of action or event followed by Jane and Elizabeth debriefing, action or event, Jane and Elizabeth debriefing. Suddenly, the biggest event and \"no Jane to comfort me\". Indeed, Lizzie is forced to look at herself in the mirror rather than sound off to a sympathetic ear. To me this is significant, as most of us would have the urge to \"run for help/guidance\" rather than look this closel at ourselves and at our mistakes. Your thoughts? Cleo"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Cleo", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (15:20)", "body": "OOps sorry Cleo"}, {"response": 21, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (20:56)", "body": "Cleo and Lynn (is it something about the name that I seem to keep agreeing with you Lynn?!) - I too agree that the letter is what begins to change Lizzy's mind about Darcy - she is probably already half in love with him when she sees him at Pembereley. I too thought that this screenplay did not do enough with the gradual changing of Lizzy's sentiments. You see a little more of it, but not as much as in the novel."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (00:05)", "body": "I have to say that I feel it is not just Darcy's love which makes him write that letter -- that famous Darcy pride is riled, also! The rejection is bad enough, but then she takes Wickham's part? This cannot be borne! From a man who always speaks the truth, to have someone believe a falsehood about him is simply not acceptable. And to have the unbeliever be the woman he loves? I think he would have done just about anything to redeem himself in Lizzy's eyes. Think Darcy is a Virgo?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (03:49)", "body": "\"I tend to believe that lizzy holds back to help the plot. \" That is an interesting approach Katy, I do believe it did. Perhaps Lizzy was unsure how deeply Bingley would still have felt for Jane after such a long separation and to give Jane some hope would have been unkind especially if Bingley had not returned to netherfield or returned and behaved indifferently to Jane."}, {"response": 24, "author": "LynnM", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (08:49)", "body": "Susan, You are so right - he was so outraged with her taking Wickham's side that he wanted the truth out in the open (so to speak). I can't remember if his birth is discussed in the book, but Inko's has it in May in her fanfic. Probably one of those Aries/Taurus cupse babies! Talk about stubborn!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "Lynn, I actually have Darcy's birthday on April 12. Worked that out from the chronology of P&P on the JA info.page, the fact that he said, at the 2nd proposal, that he had been proud and conceited from \"eight to eight and twenty\", and from guessing that he wouldn't want to spend his birthday at Rosings. Therefore I guessed that, since the first proposal was on the 9th April, the letter on the 10th, he and Fitz left on the 11th and I gave him a birthday on the 12th! Which meant he was 28 on April 12th a d from there on started to change!!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (16:35)", "body": "Yes, one must expect a Navy man to be a little weather beaten, to be sure."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (16:36)", "body": "Oops. That does not make any sense. I meant to post it in the Ciaran Hinds topic in drool"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Genette", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (22:26)", "body": "There's some talk here about Darcy not liking Elizabeth having heard bad stuff about him from Wickham and not liking her taking Wickham's side. I think there is much more to it than that. In MHO- Darcy's wild with jealousy! One line of the letter (at least in the book, not sure about video - guess I'll have to rewatch again ) has Darcy write \"Here again I shall give you pain - to what degree you only can tell. But whatever may be the sentiments which Mr. Wickham has created, a suspicion of their nature shall not prevent me from unfolding his real character. It adds even another motive.\" He can't stand the thought of her being attached to Wickham. He wants to persuade her that Wickham is not worthy of her - and make sure that Wickham doesn't have a chance with her. I'm sure there's a fanfic in this somewhere... He"}, {"response": 29, "author": "KarinB", "date": "Mon, Apr 21, 1997 (09:40)", "body": "austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 205, "subject": "What makes Darcy so appealing as a character?", "response_count": 33, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (10:46)", "body": "I think one of the reasons we love Darcy is that we, like Elizabeth, start out disliking him so very much because of his conceited aloofness and his self-absorbed sense of superiority, but grow to understand and love him as we see his more gentle and caring qualities spill forth. It is in his more unguarded moments with Elizabeth after her reproach of him and his subsequent letter to her that he allows himself to express the warm, generous, & loving parts of his character that he keeps so rigidly in check \"Neither of us perform to strangers.\" I think he always wanted to express to her (especially at the Netherfield Ball) that he was not this cold, unfeeling clod but never got the chance because Elizabeth's preconceived notions about his character prevented him from opening up to her. Initially Darcy's door was closed to Elizabeth (She is tolerable, I suppose.....\", but at this point her door is closed to him based on his alleged treatment of Wickham. SORRY if I'm rambling....."}, {"response": 2, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (12:19)", "body": "No, Linda -- you make complete sense. I must confess, that I saw the show before reading the book. I too thought Darcy too proud, all the way through until Pemberly...just as Lizzie did. Then each time I re-watched the parts where I had previously thought him to be rude, I understood what the man was about and he seemed endearing. Upon first viewing, I thought him to be a complete jerk at the first proposal...now I can't help but exclaim out loud \"Poor man! He is suffering so!\""}, {"response": 3, "author": "Dina", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "He muddles socially, his bravado and superiority are only covering up his accute shyness and inadequacies in social settings. When we learn this, he becomes more real. When he is kind to Lizzie and the Gardners at Pemberly, we'll fogive him anything he's done wrong in the past."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (13:28)", "body": "I think what I like most about Darcy, what is really most attractive about him, is his love for Elizabeth. The fact that he remains so tortured by the thought of her, by the thought of his ungracious proposal, and by the knowledge that she is (presumably) lost to him forever is powerfully attractive to me. It goes beyond \"oh, he's so vulnerable\" into the realm that to be loved with such devotion, even when she's not behaved in a way which would engender such care and concern, means that he loves her so otally and completely that he can allow her the luxury of being less than perfect. It's also his struggle to bring himself up to her standard of gentlemanly behavior, yet not expecting her to change. He loves her for what she is."}, {"response": 5, "author": "EmilyinFlorida", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:47)", "body": "I think what I love most about Darcy is his compassion--how he saved the Bennents from disgrace with Lydia, with his sister,etc. And also how much he loves Lizzy. One of my favorate parts is when he has just finished fencing and says \"I must conquer this\". That to me is just sooo sweet that he loves Lizzy so much that it's tormenting him that she turned him down."}, {"response": 6, "author": "EmilyinFlorida", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (14:49)", "body": "I think what I love most about Darcy is his compassion--how he saved the Bennents from disgrace with Lydia, with his sister,etc. And also how much he loves Lizzy. One of my favorate parts is when he has just finished fencing and says \"I must conquer this\". That to me is just sooo sweet that his love for Lizzy is so great that he is in pain."}, {"response": 7, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:00)", "body": "I love Darcy the most during the Pemberley scenes. He is so eager to prove to Elizabeth that he's not so mean as to resent the past. And of course-when he goes to London to track Wickham and Lydia down. He does it for her and let's Mr Gardiner take the credit. That's terribly romantic."}, {"response": 8, "author": "LynnMarie", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (15:23)", "body": "And Cassandra, don't you think all the effort he took with the Gardiners must have been difficult for him? (I mentioned this in another thread). He was so painfully shy that he was rude at the Meryton ball, but when her realizes how wrong he has been, he makes a great effort to show Elizabeth that he has taken her words to heart. And for a shy person, it must have been hard to be so outwardly polite with the Gardiners. I love that about him. And it IS so romantic that he lets Mr. Gardiner take the credit. If Lydia had never blurted it out, Lizzy might never have known!!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "allyson", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "Oh my, what makes Darcy so appealing...hmm. (please forgive me if I make a fool of myself, this is my first time here). What makes Darcy so appealing, to me at least, is his undying and unfaltering love for Elizabeth. Sure, he didn't start out on the right foot with Lizzy, but just the way he persisted, and changed his attitude for her. I think he became the \"tortured soul\" quite well. The scene where Darcy forcefully chanted \"I will conquer this\" (or something of the sort) after he completed fencing (am I right?) pops into my head. He just was not willing to let her get away. You've got to love a man who is willing to do anything for the woman he is in love with. I love his eyes too. Yes, I know it's Firth I'm talking about, but I just *had* to say it."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "Darcy's great appeal to me, (in addition to his cleverness, integrity, and devotion to family and friends), is his independence of mind and magnanimity. His independence of mind is evident in the manner in which he reverses his feelings toward Elizabeth. After initially snubbing her, Darcy becomes intrigued when she twice declines to dance with him (once at the Assembly and later during Jane's illness at Netherfield). A truly proud and less independent- thinking man would have remained resentful and not ventured the humiliation of an almost certain third rejection. Only a secure individual could find playfulness in Lizzy's direct verbal assaults: \"now despise me if you dare.'' Darcy's magnanimity is demonstrated when, after Lizzy's bitter rejection of his first proposal, he listens to his heart and acknowledges to himself the truth of her accusations concerning his pride and incivility. In parallel with Lizzy's self-discovery, Lizzy's rejection shocks him into seeing for the first time just how shallow his wealth and social status have made him. As he admitted to Lizzy after their engagement: \"You taught me a lesson, hard indeed at first, but most advantageous. By you, I was properly humbled. I came to you without a doubt of my reception. You shewed me how insufficient were all my pretensions to please a woman worthy of being pleased. '' When teasing Darcy after their engagement, Lizzy neatly summarizes the reason for his becoming attracted to her: ... The fact is, that you were sick of civility, of deference, of officious attention. You were disgusted with the women who were always speaking, and looking, and thinking for your approbation alone. I roused, and interested you, because I was so unlike them. Had you not been really amiable, you would have hated me for it; but in spite of the pains you took to disguise yourself, your feelings were always noble and just; and in your heart, you thoroughly despised the persons who so assiduously courted you. '' For all his wealth and social status, Darcy chose not to submit to the familial claim of fortune and the societal claim of honorable class connection; but rather chose to recognize what was truly valuable and took an independent path. By avoiding resentment and by owning the justice of Lizzy's complaints, Darcy followed his heart and developed a truly magnanimous spirit. That to me is a very appealing individual."}, {"response": 11, "author": "IF", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (16:57)", "body": "Don't you just love determination in a man."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:57)", "body": "Strong, silent, respectable, appreciative and passionately loyal in his affections. Wow, what a combination."}, {"response": 13, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "Passionate is defintely the correct word! Also, enigmatic and complex. One thing is certain-Lizzy won't be bored married to Mr Darcy!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (20:02)", "body": "Well, (sorry Amy) but if Darcy was to resemble Colin Firth in any way, guess she'll be leaving the lights on.."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (23:09)", "body": "...each time I re-watched the parts where I had previously thought him to be rude, I understood what the man was about and he seemed endearing. Upon first viewing, I thought him to be a complete jerk at the first proposal...now I can't help but exclaim out loud \"Poor man! He is suffering so!\" ...don't you think all the effort he took with the Gardiners must have been difficult for him? (I mentioned this in another thread). He was so painfully shy that he was rude at the Meryton ball, but when her realizes how wrong he has been, he makes a great effort to show Elizabeth that he has taken her words to heart. And for a shy person, it must have been hard to be so outwardly polite with the Gardiners. I love that about him. Double ditto. Candace and Lynn, you made it really easy for me and said it much better than I could have. These are the things I love about him, too."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "I think it is partly the fact that he grows so much in the course of the story. We all like to think that we can change the men in our lives, this just playes into that fantasy."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Megan", "date": "Sun, Mar 23, 1997 (23:52)", "body": "Okay you guys, I am making a list. Here\ufffds why I like this character so much. Sorry if I make any repetitions, looks like it\ufffds going to be a long one. I truly believe that JA sat down and made such a list of every possible characteristic that women love or look for in men and created Darcy ;-) Anyway, here is my list, not necessarily in the order of importance, since I don't know which side of him I admire the most : ) 1) He is honest, sincere and truthful, even with himself. 2) He is open minded and willing to admit his faults and mistakes. 3) He is willing to improve himself and alter his behaviour for the better. ( I don\ufffdt mean this in the sense of the traditional argument between men and women, that women want to change men. I don\ufffdt think he truly changes for her. He just realizes that he has been misrepresenting himself in social settings. Although there are no men likely to read this, I just thought I should clear it up and not cause any arguments. Men tend to be very sensitive about this issue. I don\ufffdt know why ;-)) 4) He is respectable, trustworthy and truly noble. 5) He is generous. 6) He is very much capable of unconditional love. 7) He respects the woman he loves. 8) He has a strong sense of responsibility and a powerful conscience.( He can\ufffdt live with the possibility of his mistakes costing anyone any pain or unhappiness.) 9) He is intelligent and well educated. 10) He is decisive. He knows what he wants and goes after it, no matter what. 11) He is a problem solver. 12) He is caring and concerned for the well-being of people around him. 13) He is passionate. 14) He is vulnerable. 15) He is realistic. 16) He is observant, fair and objective. 17) He admires her 'for the liveliness of her mind'.(prefers meaningful relationships) 18) He is very mature, capable and self-reliant. 19) He is handsome, rich and tall. 20) He is a true gentleman with a gentle and courteous soul. 21) He has a good sense of humour. (just the right amount) 22) He does not have any bad habits. Did I leave anything out?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (00:31)", "body": "\"Although there are no men likely to read this\" Henry, Bill, Ian, Eric and even Mike might like to dispute that."}, {"response": 19, "author": "kjones", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (01:28)", "body": "I think Darcy's 'humaness\" endears him most to me. Perhaps I have read the book too many times to see his rudeness now. I love the fact that Darcy is able to put aside the social and familial pressures of marrying \"below him\" if you'll allow me. His love for Elizabeth is unwavering. All the romantic broo-ha-ha is very valid (I know I'm rambling - please bear with me) However, Darcy shows himself to be a man in the true sense of the word. Until he professes his love to Lizzy and she so harshly rejects him, he felt his class, money, and his own self esteem was enough to endear ANY woman, much less a woman of a lower class. I don't believe he ever saw himself through any one else's eyes (except Caroline Bingley's) until Lizzy voiced her opinion of his pride and arrogance. So far, Darcy has exhibited every characteristic known to man (as a gender). However - Darcy grows S OO much! He is able to self -examine and realize the consequences of his previous actions and appreciate that others see may see him differently than he sees himself. Henceforth, Darcy's actions, and later words, show us that he has been able to recognize his faults and has endeavored to overcome them. Does any of this make sense? I guess, in summary, Darcy makes a concious effort to recognize his faults, account for them, and grow to overcome / adapt to them. Yet one thing remains constant, and that is his love for Lizzy. What more could a woman want?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Megan", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (01:41)", "body": "Sorry Ann, I am new and didn't notice that there were that many men in this conference. I hope I didn't offend anyone. Anyway, it's late, I am sleepy and obviously making mistakes. Please disregard that remark. Megan"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Serena", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (02:33)", "body": "Megan, you can do no wrong in my books now after that complete summary of Mr Darcy, that poor man who suffered so humiliating a rejection and came out a better person for it. Yes, Ann, if the only thing he did was to change for Lizzy, it would be enough for me. Amy, I can't stay away from this topic, I have been in love with Darcy since I was 12 years old, this sounding more and more liike a hopeless case the older I grow."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (10:46)", "body": "I cannot help but think of the truely mean things Darcy says in the beginning. Like: To stand up with company such as this would be utterly insupportable and I would as soon call her mother a wit . Is this his insecurty talking? If he is basically a kind person, why would he say things like this, even to his closest friends? I think the slams dished out to Caroline Bingley at the end are a little more civil, for some time I have considered her one of the handsomest women of my acquaintan e . Any opinions about this?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "joanna", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "Who can resist responding to this topic? And who can really disagree with most of what has been said? He is handsome, passionate, kind, generous. Further, what were previously perceived as major flaws of pride and arrogance are later revealed to be endearing qualities as he seeks to overcome them for Lizzy. I would like to add one big one for me--as we finally see Pemberly--its glories, its size--he is the \"master\" of Pemberly and \"There is not one of his tenants or servants but will give him a good name.\" To be adored by someone like this! Heavy sigh!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "Dina: I cannot help but think of the truely mean things Darcy says in the beginning. Like: To stand up with company such as this would be utterly insupportable and I would as soon call her mother a wit. Is this his insecurty talking? If he is basically a kind person, why would he say things like this, even to his closest friends? I think the slams dished out to Caroline Bingley at the end are a little more civil, for some time I have considered her one of the handsomest women of my acquaintance. I tend to attribute much of that early \"cutting\" wit to the influence of Caroline Bingley. She is always making snide comments concerning others to Darcy; ostensibly for his enjoyment. I believe he did enjoy acting that way at first (to cover insecurity? maybe), but as he is made aware of Lizzy's good qualities, and his own failings, snide comments become tiresome and he makes an effort to improve. At any rate, blaming Caroline makes me feel better! ;)"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Megan", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "\"To stand up with company such as this would be utterly insupportable\" When Bingley insists on Darcy's dancing his complete statement is: \" I certainly shall not. You know how I detest it, unless I am particularly acquainted with my partner. At such an assembly as this, it would be insupportable. Your sisters are engaged, and there is not other woman in the room, whom it would not be a punishment to me to stand up with.\" Before I say anything, let me warn you that I am one of those people who immediately liked Darcy. Yes, even at the beginning, long before Pemberly. So, I'll probably sound like his advocate here. This sentence shocks me a little but what I understand from it that this person is not comfortable in this particular social setting. He doesn't know anybody. He is not used to be around people of this type of social or economical background. (Mrs. Gardiner later states that they moved in different social circles, for example). He feels a little out of place. Yet he is there, if he was a proud person, truly thinking low of that community, he would not have come. His pride here is sort of a form of ration lization of his own discomfort, I think... I cannot blame him for wanting to only dance with women he knows. Actually, I respect him for that. He sticks to this policy until the very end. This just means that when he dances with a woman, he is truly singling her out, pays her a complement. In Bingley's case for example, the distinguishment is in how many dances he dances with each partner. If he dances two with Jane and one with Charlotte, it means he likes Jane better. But for Darcy, when he asks a woman, it is much more than a casual event. Beca se of this comment, and also the two refusals on both parts, the dance scene at Netherfield is so powerful. (I also find it very amusing. Something to laugh at in a man who is not to be laughed at.) Regarding, \"She a beauty!- I should as soon call her mother a wit\" Lizzy is not supposed to be beautiful in the general sense. This is his first impression of her and he is truly honest. But don't we all admire him for going beyond the first impressions and find the true beauty in her, the everlasting one? Something Lizzy failed to do at the beginning and couldn't see beyond his so-called pride. She also couldn't see what Wickham was all about. So, Lizzy couldn't handle her first impressions and prejudices as well as Darcy did. I see this sentence as a proof of one of hi admirable traits. As, for calling her mother a wit, well, he is right isn't he? Although impolite, he is still fair and honest. We can always blame the rudeness and the mockery on the bad influence of Bingley's sisters, after all he says this in their company. :) Well, seriously, sometimes honesty comes out rude depending on the company. I see both of these remarks as a way of emphasizing his wonderful characteristics that are revealed later on, which happen to be extremely hard to find in men. The big difference in his civility between the beginning and the end of the novel gives us a measure of the magnitude of the many capabilities of this man and increases the intensity of our appreciation of him. It is because of comments as these, we understand that his love for her is deep and true and forever... Megan"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Megan", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (17:16)", "body": "Hey, Tracey! I see you got to blame Caroline before I did, when I was busy writing. ;) I guess we think alike, huh?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (17:29)", "body": "Megan, I'm with you on your take on Darcy. I've also always liked him from the very beginning. I always think of him as shy and uncomfortable in strange surroundings, yet he went to the Assembly because his friend asked him to, which to me shows his kindness to his friends. In the TV series, when Mrs. B. tells him \"you will not find prettier partners or livlier music\" he merely bows and turns away and holds his tongue, although if he had been truly rude he could have said a lot to contradict her! Can you really blame him, considering her look at Lizzie and her tone of voice? I can't! He may have seemed proud to the Meryton people but he never seemed that proud to me -- just reserved! But then, he's been a perfect hero since I first read P&P at about age 12 or 13!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Dina", "date": "Mon, Mar 24, 1997 (17:41)", "body": "Megan, WOW! I don't agree with all you said, but you made some excellent points I had not thought of. Just because what he said about Mrs. B. is true doesn't make it o.k. to say it that sharply. I think I want to see him more insecure as he appears later. Or if he is the man you describe in #12 & 20 above, why did he behave so rudely (do some of your wonderful characteristics seem contrary to one another)? Thanks for you comments. I love Darcy (of course, or would I be here!?!?). Tracey, I am not ure I can buy into the Carloline thing, yes, she may have influenced his comments, but that doesn't necessarily excuse his behavior. I guess I just see him too \"superior\" and want him to fall a few notches, which he does. I just think he is a bit too rude, not shy."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (04:05)", "body": "Perhaps Darcy had just came through a few city/towns like London with all their superflourous fineries to be found amongst that set of stylish people and behaviours to match. He became uncomfortable with woman in general and chose to hung out only with ladies he knew. Maybe he was shy and hiding behind that arrongant facade. Coming to Meryton was a change to country folks and by the time he was at Lucas's party, he began to accept the 'simplier' people for what they were, and Lizzy's beauty and simplic ty began to work on him. Afterall, they were relatively harmless."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (09:12)", "body": "Also, Darcy has simply never met another woman like Lizzy before, with her \"pert opinions.\" I love the scene at Netherfield where she has just commented on being astonished, with the array of demand he makes for such a thing, that he should know \"half a dozen\" ladies of accomplishment. When he turns around in his chair and studies her, really studies her, you can tell he is thinking, \"What a truly extraordinary girl!\""}, {"response": 31, "author": "Tracey", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (11:12)", "body": "Megan - I guess we do think alike! I like the way you put your \"defense;\" well done! I, too have been predisposed to like Darcy, but in my case it was because I saw the adaptation before I read the book, and CF managed to convey hints of underlying conflict/reserve/discomfort so well that you can see where he's coming from before Lizzy can. Dina - Indeed, Caroline's influence cannot excuse Darcy's behavior, and I would not have it so. I guess my line of thinking is that if you're constantly exposed to such unrestrained cattiness, it rubs off on you in subtle ways; and that the influence of company such as Caroline's, coupled with Darcy's naturally high opinion of himself, and even his reserve or shyness resulted in his rudeness of address."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Quarky", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (11:46)", "body": "Very nicely put, Meagan! You have just taken me to a review of the first tape (yet again!). It strikes me that at the assembly, the somewhat botched introduction of Darcy to Mrs. Bennet and her presumptious comments put Darcy ill at ease and caused his retreat. Her loud denunciation of him within earshot of so many (himself, especially), put him in an even worse humor. It is no wonder to me that he would want nothing more to do with \"country manners\". His remark that \"he would as soon call her mother a w t\" reflects, I believe, nothing more than that his is still in very bad humor over the evening's events. This incident clearly shows his later self assessment to be on the mark: he is somewhat easily provoked toward resentful feelings."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (13:20)", "body": "Bill, that is perfect, that makes me understand him. I think his reaction perfectly natural now. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 207, "subject": "Why do we feel the need to watch over and over and over and over and over again?", "response_count": 9, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (04:16)", "body": "\"..once you have that first kiss, once you say \"I love you\" that first time, once you go on from there..., it can never be the \"first time\" again.\" That's exacty what I told the hubby last night, when he asked if I was going insane watching JA's adaptations and leaving laser discs, videos, books all round the TV. Well , you never know when you might need a romance boost. Alternatively, I probably need a life."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (04:27)", "body": "I agree...it's like falling in love...or, like when you THINK you're falling in love...you're absolutely obsessive for a time, and then the feelings either die or even out to a nice, stable, old-married-couple sort of deep-seeded appreciation...familiarity breeds either contempt or greater, sager, calmer understanding."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (04:30)", "body": "Hmm.. how absolutely familar and true, Kali. - calmer understanding!! I'm ready for an adaptation right now."}, {"response": 4, "author": "janea", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (10:41)", "body": "I think there are many reasons why I love to watch the JA movies over and over again. It\ufffds for the love and the romance of course. It\ufffds also for the happy endings. In real life there are so many unhappy ones, but here you know all the time that they will marry in the end. That\ufffds heartwarming and just what I need when real life isn\ufffdt just sunshine and blue skys. But the most important reason I think, is the heros. They are just like the men of our dreams. They are masculine and goodlooking and romantic, but more important, they are all warm and strong and caring. And the way they _look_ at the heroines. I think we are all longing for to be looked at that way. And by watching over and over again we almost are."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Hollis", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (10:53)", "body": "I agree with you all about why we watch the JA movies over and over. I also think that I watch them because they represent a simplier time. Although I don't want to give up my modern life, there is something to be said about having male/female roles so defined. They didn't have as many choices but they also didn't have the stress of trying to do it all. These movies respresent a life that I wouldn't mind trying for a while."}, {"response": 6, "author": "kate", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (11:41)", "body": "These movies respresent a life that I wouldn't mind trying for a while. Don't forget the outdoor privy, and no antibiotics. And that most of us would have been the servants..."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (13:30)", "body": "They are just like the men of our dreams. They are masculine and goodlooking and romantic, but more important, they are all warm and strong and caring. And the way they _look_ at the heroines. I think we are all longing for to be looked at that way. Do men like this ever really exist? Or are they a figment of the imagination of female writers through time?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "Hollis - I agree with you. I can think of worse ways to spend a day than playing at the piano, reading, perfecting the art of portraiture, taking nature walks, etc. And I can think of worse ways to spend an evening than dancing at a ball with a fine & handsome gentleman, or dining with 4 and 20 families! I think we need a well calculated mix of the old & the new."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (04:11)", "body": "Perhaps since JA's books are all so focused on the emotional aspect, always with someone maturing for the sake of love and likewise, a villian going downhill from his/her lack of strength of character.. and at the expense of love.. It is a timeless lesson which can be learnt and re-learnt with our own experiences in life - A Knightley (esp. looking like JN) would have been so ideal to grown up with, a Darcy (CF) with all his unfailing devotion would be such a \"catch\" and a Wentworth, hmmm... after 8 years and still 'hurt' about the break-up and my favourite Mr Willoughby - I could go over and over and over and never be bored. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 208, "subject": "Did Mrs Bennet bring about the happy ending?", "response_count": 11, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Vivsy", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (11:12)", "body": "Food for thought. Mrs. Bennet is so hysterical annoying most of the time I hardly want to give her credit for anything. Mr. Bennet probably would have gone anyway. I nearly died laughing when Darcy walked away from her at the assembly. So she started Elizabeth's hatred of him. Yes, she knew what she was about with the horse ride. If Jane hadn't been sick Lizzie would never have had to stay there and interact with Darcy. Her visit to Netherfield embarrassed Lizzie so much that she could not wait to get away. So Jane & Lizzie might have left sooner than they would have. If she had not encouraged Mr. Collins to marry Lizzie he might not have asked her and then after being so soundly rejected he might not have been susceptive to Charlotte. Her going to Brighton probably would have made it easier for Lizzie and Darcy to get together at Pemberley. Yes, she knew what she was about with Bingley and Jane. In short, I guess Lizzie and Darcy probably do owe their happiness to Mrs. Bennet. Yikes, should I start liking her now? Serena how could you do this to me???"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Vivsy", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (11:51)", "body": "Sorry, was exerimenting with that font size thing. Didn't think it would be that big."}, {"response": 3, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (11:54)", "body": "have you tried our Arts and Crafts room at Austentest? Great stuff there"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Vivsy", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (15:08)", "body": "Thanks Johanne, I didn't know about Austentest. Sorry about the shouting."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Mar 30, 1997 (23:32)", "body": "No a problem, Vivian, but I do think Mrs Bennet has helped along tremendously.. inspite of being 'vulgar and uncouth'.. cannot believe I'm typing this too"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Anat", "date": "Mon, Mar 31, 1997 (06:13)", "body": "I read in a preface to the book (don't remember by whom) that Mrs. Bennet was a better parent than Mr. Bennet. She was justified in her worry for her daughters' future, although she exxagerated (we'll be thrown do die in the hedgerows). We saw what happened to the Dashwood women in S&S. The father didn't put away money for their future, and didn't discipline the young daughters so their behavior was outrageous.He also degraded the mother in front of the daughters, which is not nice to do. In other adaptations of P&P (besides 2), Mrs. Bennet is not portrayed as such a hysterical woman, although its very clear from the novel that she is silly."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Apr  1, 1997 (21:52)", "body": "Yes, she was silly in her attempts to marry her daughters out, Anat. But it did pay off for her, 2 daughters well married.. and the romance for us to enjoy as viewers and readers.. I begin to like her more and more.."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Apr 11, 1997 (01:42)", "body": "Are there any other takers on Mrs Bennet and her efforts towards the happy ending...??"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Linda", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (16:13)", "body": "I think both her parents helped Lizzie resolve that a marriage without respect is worse than spinsterhood, as she herself told Jane. Mr. Collins never stood a chance, thank goodness! She could never have accepted Darcy without respecting him for the person he was."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Apr 13, 1997 (06:50)", "body": "Yes, that is so true Linda. Lizzy was indeed aware of the disparity of respect and understanding between her parents. And wanted to find true love herself. But Mrs Bennet acting on her own ability, was simply trying to do the best she could in her own way, to 'promote' the lives of her daughters. She was trying to settle them well for hers and their own sake.. however, her methods and ways could sometimes be disputable. But I believe in her heart she did what she thought was best for them. In that sense, I thought she contributed to the happy ending... am I mistaken?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Linda", "date": "Mon, Apr 14, 1997 (19:12)", "body": "I do agree. Sometimes it's hard to see the good intent under all that awfulness, but she was certainly doing what she thought best for all her girls. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 209, "subject": "What do we want in a sequel?", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (16:32)", "body": "You cannot have a story without conflict. What can we stand to have as a problem for D & E? I cannot imagine as I have read (I cannot believe I am admitting it) in some of the sequels that they will not have good communication and that Lizzie becomes an insipid, weepy wimp. One thing I know I would like to read (as I do in fanfic) is them getting to know each other as people. They know very little of each others lives. He knows she reads and plays \"a little\" - what else? She knows he's a \"good master\", likes to hunt birds and swims :-) - but what else? We know that her life will change a great deal, in comparison to Darcy's. I am sure she will make small faux pas but she won't let running Pemberly get the best of her. She is up to the challenge. That's about all the plot dissecting I can do right now. I am sure I will have more after I read everyone's wonderful ideas."}, {"response": 2, "author": "LKenn", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (18:14)", "body": "I want to see a P&P sequel that begins with Darcy & Elizabeth's wedding night. HA! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 21, "subject": "Austen University", "response_count": 23, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (12:59)", "body": "I'm floating a trial balloon on this now, and am getting good early returns. It's discussed in a private conference now. More news to come."}, {"response": 2, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (13:03)", "body": "Paul, Sounds like there could be a great match. Gregory, our team's main contact with b&n, is currently in NYC with them talking about upcoming course ideas, etc. He'll be out all week, but he or someone from the curriculum team will be in contact soon. Thanks, Kathy -----Original Message----- From: Paul Terry Walhus [mailto:paul_walhus@notharvard.com] Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 10:16 AM To: teach@notharvard.com; terry@spring.net; terry@austen.com Cc: gregory_kallenberg@notharvard.com; judy_bitterli@notharvard.com; regan_brown@notharvard.com; jan_davidson@notharvard.com; stacie_herrington@notharvard.com; kurt_huffman@notharvard.com; claire_huie@notharvard.com; shannon_ingram@notharvard.com; kathy_kitayama@notharvard.com; katie_kratzig@notharvard.com; shelly_lance@notharvard.com; shelly_leuzinger@notharvard.com; john_ratliff@notharvard.com; eric_roach@notharvard.com; tim_ziegler@notharvard.com Subject: Austen University - a Content & Course Suggestion I am currently working as a system administrator contractor at notharvard.com, working on building the Solaris platform for the next generation of notHarvard.com servers. But I have also spent the last ten years developing several successful websites (austen.com, spring.net, firth.com etc.) that have become heavily populated virtual communities. I have an idea for a series of courses based on a popular website I own called http://www.austen.com . It is the main Internet portal for the works (books, movie adaptations, television adaptations) of Jane Austen. It receives several hundred thousand hits a month, as does it's sister site where Jane Austen discussion forums are held at http://www.spring.net . The website has a fervent following, to say the least. Donations and contributions sometimes are several thousand dollars a month, and the membership is growing rapidly. I get about 40,000 unique individuals a month visiting both spring.net and austen.com, comprised of a highly literate, well educated audience who are into studying the works of Jane Austen and doing literary adaptations of these works. The \"Derbyshire Writers Guild\" is a unique educational area where anyone can put up a story based on the writings of Jane Austen. See http://www.austen.com/derby/contrib.htm for the Derbyshire Writers Guild. I would like to meet with someone at notharvard.com about the potential for writing a series of courses on the works of Jane Austen as part of BarnesandNobleUniversity.com or some other notHarvard.com venue. I could enlist the support of this loyal austen.com community in putting these courses together and would draw participants from the community. The educommerce potential, I believe, would be enormous considering that this is a well established and highly literature, book buying virtual community. I also feel like the spring.net community as a whole could develop other course opportunities that would be supported by the conferencing structure I have developed at spring.net. Will you please help me to evalute the potential merits of developing Jane Austen courses that would be coupled with online discussion forums and see if this has potential merit as an offering of notHarvard.com? Thanks, Paul Terry Walhus -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=- Paul Walhus http://www.notharvard.com paul_walhus@notharvard.com 512-682-3321 221 W 6th 11th floor Austin, TX 78701 alternate email: terry@spring.net cellphone: 512-699-4000 (also text pager) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-"}, {"response": 3, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (13:04)", "body": "And from another member of the content team: Paul, Thanks so much for your input. The recruiting and curriculum team (Gregory, Adrienne, Ben, Tom and I) will certainly discuss this more, but B&N is very keen on literature courses. Gregory's out of town this week, but maybe we can all sit down next week to discuss your ideas further. Of course, Gregory will determine all of this since he's the big boss man... Thanks, Jan"}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (14:52)", "body": "Great idea, Terry. waiting to hear more while I wait to hear in what way I might be of help..."}, {"response": 5, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (14:58)", "body": "You can help by identifying who might want to participate in this project."}, {"response": 6, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Jun 20, 2000 (09:13)", "body": "The ante is upped on this project. We need ideas in all sorts of course areas. We need to know how many courses we can develop based on Spring conference topics and who can assist in developing these courses. How important is this? It's the most important project we've ever done and make a huge difference in the quality and direction we take in the future, not to mention that it can be a great source of revenue for the participants who help develop courseware and teach courses and run topics/conferences in conjunction with these courses."}, {"response": 7, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jun 20, 2000 (22:23)", "body": "I posted course topic suggestions from Geo. I tried to access B&N university but have not logged in and cannot find it from the B&N.com page. Suggestions?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Jun 21, 2000 (08:36)", "body": "http://www.barnesandnobleuniversity.com Also look at http://www.talkcity.com in the section called \"free courses\" And follow the links on http://www.notharvard.com And on the main page of http://www.barnesandnoble.com there's a yellow box to the right middle of the page that says Also on the Way... Free online courses at Barnes & Noble University Follow this if all else fails."}, {"response": 9, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Jun 21, 2000 (08:45)", "body": "I'd like to get some course ideas from as many folks as possible and I'm waiting to hear from Ann if she's game to mock up a page for Friday's presentation. I'd like to get a couple of dozen ideas for courses based on Jane Austen, geo, and other hot areas of the Spring and put them on a mock up page for discussion on Friday. I left a voicemail for Ann last night."}, {"response": 10, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jun 22, 2000 (23:11)", "body": "I put a list elsewhere, but add Basic Astronomy - The Night Sky"}, {"response": 11, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jun 23, 2000 (08:23)", "body": "Where'd you put the list?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jun 23, 2000 (20:59)", "body": "It was inner 50.18 but here it is copied: Basic Rockhounding Leylines and E lines - Earth energy Volcanoes - introduction Plate tectonics - Introduction GeoArchaeology (any of my topics actually)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jun 23, 2000 (21:00)", "body": "The Night Sky - Basic Astronomy"}, {"response": 14, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Jun 24, 2000 (08:49)", "body": "Alright, great. These are for Ann to include in mock up page of courses we could offer. Do you have any ideas for courses that other folks could teach, What courses and who could teach them? Maybe we could lure Ray back to teach something, maybe a cooking class, etc."}, {"response": 15, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun 24, 2000 (20:41)", "body": "Hiatus Man to do anything!!! Cooking, webpage design... There is much he can contribute including trail blazing and other outdoor things. Problem here is he hasn't the time. There are many talented people here but with little time....."}, {"response": 16, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sun, Jun 25, 2000 (12:37)", "body": "Amy Bellinger wrote me some suggestions and she mentioned a possible alliance that I am going to follow up on."}, {"response": 17, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jun 25, 2000 (20:21)", "body": "Let us know of your success. I am still working on the recruiting-for-Spring level(success with the Seismology student from Tehran) and trying to think of something constructive add to your mix."}, {"response": 18, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Jun 26, 2000 (07:15)", "body": "Amy just launched a major project at http://www.webfaucet.com , no wonder she's been so back in the woodwork for the past couple of years."}, {"response": 19, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jun 26, 2000 (19:19)", "body": "Just looked....Wow!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Jun 27, 2000 (13:50)", "body": "This isn't just a weekends work."}, {"response": 21, "author": "nan", "date": "Tue, Jun 27, 2000 (14:11)", "body": "Just a little clarification about WebFaucet...it's actually a portion of my thesis for the graduate program I just completed at NYU. Amy isn't involved in it, though I wish she were ;-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jun 27, 2000 (15:01)", "body": "You Go, Girl!! Terry is right - that was no weekend endeavor. Brava Nan! Hugs, too!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May  1, 2001 (07:22)", "body": "test austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 210, "subject": "Lizzy and Charlotte compared and contrasted", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Tue, Mar 25, 1997 (17:52)", "body": "They were friends at first because of the similarities in their social position. They grew up together, were neighbors, were about the same age and at a time when social contacts were limited, by lack of good roads and communication, were more or less thrown in the same social situations. Assemblies, balls and so forth. It should be noted that their financial situations were somewhat similar. Both were not wealthy and if not married well, faced the possiblity of a dependent spinsterhood. The Bennett entail didn't help Eliz. Bennett much. And Sir WIlliam Lucas could give Charlotte little. Elizabeth Bennett simply erred in her understanding of Charlotte Lucas' character. Charlotte Lucas has a low opinion of (perhaps) men and views marriage simply as a source of financial security. Charlotte's statement of happiness in marriage considered as simply a matter of chance is treated as a joke at the dinner party given by at Lucas Lodge. As Eliz. finds out later, it is no joke. I am more in sympathy with Charlotte Lucas, and to a certain extent with Jane, than Eliz. Bennett, on the question of her marriage to Mr Collins. It's not stated directly, but the thought of the reversionaty interest in Longbourne going to the Collins's really made Elizabeth's relationship for Charlotte even more strained. Perhaps even more than Mr COllin's stupidity. Charlotte I suspect can deal with Mr Collins. But Eliz. is powerless against the entail."}, {"response": 2, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Mar 26, 1997 (19:45)", "body": "Carl -- Charlotte was actually about six years older than Lizzy..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Anat", "date": "Mon, Mar 31, 1997 (05:43)", "body": "Charlote declares that she is not a romantic and never was. She doesn't expect romance out of marriage. In contrast, Lizzy says it would take a great love to persuade her into matrimony. Why are they friends? besides the similarites that Lassale (Carl Goss?) mentioned, there is also attraction of opposites or complementary characters, looking for things you miss in your friends. I've had several relationships like that with women friends. I think it works less for couples."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Anat", "date": "Mon, Mar 31, 1997 (05:44)", "body": "Charlote declares that she is not a romantic and never was. She doesn't expect romance out of marriage. In contrast, Lizzy says it would take a great love to persuade her into matrimony. Why are they friends? besides the similarites that Lassale (Carl Goss?) mentioned, there is also attraction of opposites or complementary characters, looking for things you miss in your friends. I've had several relationships like that with women friends. I think it works less for couples."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Apr  2, 1997 (00:29)", "body": "I think Elizabeth and Charlotte are friends for the reasons that Carl mentioned above (same social position, close location, etc). However Elizabeth believed her friend was like minded with her in that one should at least respect her marriage partner. I think we have all had friends whom we assumed we shared common values with a later in the relationship found this was not true. In some situations this can be over looked. However, if you were very close, this type of discovery can cause a breach in th relationship (as it did here). I don't think Elizabeth is harsh in her assesment and reaction to Charlotte. Jane of course is being too forgiving (to me). Though Charlotte claims not to be romantic though she seems to notice attraction in everyone else. I think the issue is respect. Charlotte does not respect her spouse and that is a huge problem. And even worse, she knew she would not respect him before she married him. And her avoidance of him after they are married makes me scream why did you bother (yea though she claims she s content)."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Apr  2, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "Karen, it is somewhat ironic when Charlotte tells Lizzy that there are days when she and Mr. Collins rarely see each other, and she encourages him to spend time in the garden. It does make one ask, \"then why choose to spend your life with him?!\""}, {"response": 7, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Apr  2, 1997 (22:23)", "body": "[ I think the issue is respect. ] I think that Elizabeth lost a little respect for Charlotte, and that made their relationship a little strained. As time passed, Elizabeth kinda got over it, but I do not think their relationship will be as it was before Charlotte accepted Collins. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 212, "subject": "austen.com - the new generation . . . . .", "response_count": 10, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Anat", "date": "Mon, Mar 31, 1997 (05:34)", "body": "How do we get to the new site?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr  3, 1997 (00:45)", "body": "At the Pemberly chat room I read this today: \"The spring was always intented to be a temporary home for the P&P2 group.\" I am not expressing many of my thoughts on the move away from here because I feel betrayed and left out of all the decisions regarding this. So I'll continue to cool about this."}, {"response": 3, "author": "SigridMarten", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (03:18)", "body": "Where did everyone go? And why?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (08:08)", "body": "Where did everyone go? And why? Sigrid, go to http://www2.shore.net/~mrobens/ No one but the originators knows \"why.\" I don't see why we can't continue to visit both sites as long as they are up and running."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (20:30)", "body": "You all are very welcome here, there, everywhere. I love it that you all are here. It doesn't have to be an \"either or\" situation but rather \"both\". I hope we can add many more literary conferences and create topics that reflect your interests. I'm very, very happy that you are here. Make yourself at home!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Genette", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (23:27)", "body": "Like some others I am a bit confused as to what is going on with our beloved site. I have managed to find the Republic, the Shore, the Spring, the Guild, some old topics, some new topics, etc. And I am certainly grateful that so much hard work is going into these things. One thing I can not find is access to discussions I was in the midst of on Drool (accessed from the Spring) immediately prior to the downtime of the Spring. Is all of that information lost? Help!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Apr  5, 1997 (07:43)", "body": "You should still have access. I'll check in to this!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Apr  5, 1997 (07:46)", "body": "I just checked and the drool conference is alive and well. If you continue to have problems, please report them and email me. I'm make sure that whatever is keeping you out is fixed. But you should definitely have access. Long live drool!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Sun, Apr  6, 1997 (22:08)", "body": "Re: 4 Susan, thanks for the link. How did you find the Republic? I was clueless until I read something in another completely unrelated topic."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Apr  9, 1997 (23:14)", "body": "Angela, it was through a link in one of their old pages. It looks like a lot of people still haven't found them. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 214, "subject": "What did you think of Emma Thompson's adaptation of Sense and Sensibility?", "response_count": 14, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr  3, 1997 (00:53)", "body": "Welcome Rebecca, glad you're joining us! Can you delve into the \"character turnaround\" thing a bit more?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (09:15)", "body": "Rebecca (or is it Paige?), this has been discussed before, but JA addicts are always more than willing to go over things again and again! I liked this adaptation, too, and agree with your casting comments, although it was so good overall that I could overlook those things. Having never been able to slog my way completely through that book, I can't comment on the Willoughby turnaround, however."}, {"response": 3, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "I just saw S&S#? last Sunday on video, and I thought it was fabulous. Having read it 5 or 6 years ago, I had forgotten nearly everything but the most basic aspects and for that I was most happy. I found that this adaptation gave me a real sense of the novel. When I re-read the novel this week, I could actually see the characters speak. There are obviously plot omissions because of the length, but there was enough story to make it enjoyable on first watch. I don't think that I will spend as much time on it as I do with P&P2, but I will definitely spend more time on it than on Emma3!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Apr  4, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "Oh Angela, Emma3 improves with each viewing! Please give it a chance; I really love it."}, {"response": 5, "author": "angelaw", "date": "Sun, Apr  6, 1997 (21:13)", "body": "Susan, I would like to believe that Emma3 improves with each viewing, but I haven't been able to get myself to watch it except when it was aired. Of course, I taped it then, but I can't seem to bring myself to actually rewind the tape and see it again. Where as I rented S&S and saw it once before I had to return it, and now I'm contemplating buying the tape. It sort of like when you do badly on a test and you aren't even willing to look at the returned test paper even though you may have done reasonably w ll. Perhaps it may have to do with the fact that I don't really like the character of Emma. She's too spoiled for my tastes. Whereas I can identify with Elinor much, much better."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Apr  6, 1997 (23:05)", "body": "Sense and Sensibility is being broadcast as I write this on one of the satellites."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Serena", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (01:13)", "body": "The adaptation of S&S captured the overall essence of the book, though personally, I thought the Marianne and Willoughby affair was the most fulfilling 'failure' of a romance I've ever had to watch..I grieved for her and cry myself silly whenever I re watch it and reach the part where she goes to Combe Magna in the rain and calls out for him.. I'm melting as I type this. Yes, the Willoughby turnaround should have been included, it would have made the dread of the whole failed romance all the more intense for the viewer. But I guess she (Emma T) captured it having Willoughby look on at the end of the movie as Marianne marries Col. B. A regret he would have to carry with him forever. Oh WILLOUGHBY!!!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Susan", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (22:20)", "body": "Serena, I also empathized with Willoughby in this version, but I guess a lot of diehard JA people thought he got just what he deserved. Somebody told me that people hissed in the theater when the scene came on where he was sitting on his horse watching the wedding aftermath. I couldn't believe that; I didn't think he was that bad in the film. And I, too, liked the romance between him and Marianne."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Apr 11, 1997 (02:38)", "body": "He was adorable, Susan... how could anyone think of hissing at him.. poor man, he was helpless to his own weaknesses.. that was precisely why he was so irrisistable. I've posted this before - if I had to be 'crossed' in love just once in my life time, it would be wonderful for it to be a Willoughby. That fearlessness to love and other weakness of character which can ultimately be 'gotten over with' and the girlish passions will develop into mature and life-long love?? Or am I just naive?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (01:42)", "body": "if I had to be 'crossed' in love just once in my life time, it would be wonderful for it to be a Willoughby. Oh yes, every woman should have a Willoughby somewhere in her past -- I know I do!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (05:00)", "body": "Susan, we must be hopeless-romantics... Did you feel sad for Colonel Brandon? Especially since he knew he was being settled for.."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (17:27)", "body": "I felt somewhat sad for the Colonel, but he wanted Marianne so much that I think he was happy to take her on any terms. She needed him more than she wanted or loved him, I think, but he was willing to accept that to have her in his life. But yes, I think she settled, without a doubt. I'm sure she thought about Willoughby throughout her life as the one that got away. Being as passionate as she was, I'm sure she also fantasized about how different her life would have been with him."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Serena", "date": "Sun, Apr 13, 1997 (07:53)", "body": "That is so touching and tragic and all the more so for Colonel Brandon, he has also to contend with the 'ghost' of Willoughby inspite of winning the lady. But I do adore the Marianne and Willoughby romance, it was so passionate."}, {"response": 14, "author": "ValGal17", "date": "Fri, May  2, 1997 (23:29)", "body": "I believe that Marianne ended up loving Col. Brandon as much as she ever loveved Willoughby. In the book, at the very last, it states that Marianne could never love by halves and ended up loving Brandon as much as she ever loved Willoughby. I'm sure that she got much more out of her relationship with Brandon also. He truely loved her and would do anything for her. I don't know if Willoughby truly loved Marianne. He enjoyed their romance, but only because she flattered him. He did not love her - only the fact that she petted his ego. I do feel sorry for Willoughby though. If he did love her to the full extent of his soul than that is very sad. The truest love he could give he could give away for money. I feel sorry him because he was not half the man he should have been. People like that don't get nearly as much out of life. I believe Marianne led a happy life as a woman who loved those around her and was loved. If she did think about Willoughby at all it was not in regret. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 215, "subject": "Darcy's moment of happiness", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "kat", "date": "Tue, Apr  8, 1997 (19:15)", "body": "Some people complained that this scene wasn't long enough,(the 2nd proposal scene) but I think it was wonderful. They both looked so happy and lovesick when they look at each other, and the \"dearest, loveliest Elizabeth\" gets me everytime I watch it. I have re-wound that scene countless times."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Serena", "date": "Fri, Apr 11, 1997 (01:48)", "body": "I felt that 2nd proposal and the subsequent chapter in the book should have reflected in P&P2 - especially since Ehle's Lizzy did not explain the transformation of her initial disgust into eventual respect of Darcy thru out the 6 hrs. Non-novel readers might have presumed it was due to her first viewing Pemberley - though that might have been a factor, but not the overall. In P&P1, Lizzy explained it thru her 'voice-over' thoughts and it was superb to experience it with her.. but that's just my opionion I do keep watching P&P2, to catch more 'subtle' hints - may be that's the idea. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 216, "subject": "Emma Miramax", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 13, 1998 (09:59)", "body": "Any luck? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 217, "subject": "Austen vs Heyer", "response_count": 6, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May 16, 1997 (08:21)", "body": "Do you have any titles or authors in mind?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "christa", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (21:25)", "body": "No, I have no sugesstions. I was sort of hoping others would have some suggestions for me."}, {"response": 3, "author": "LorieS", "date": "Tue, May 20, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "There's nobody quite like JA, but some of my favorites are Anne Bronte (although all Brontes are quite good, IMHO); Madeline L'Engle (be sure you're looking at her adult fiction, since she also has young adult literature, essays, etc.) and John Irving. Pick a century and see if you like any of them, but to me these are writers whose characters live on in my head after the book is finished."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May 20, 1997 (13:02)", "body": "I loved the play I saw last year about the Bronte sisters. Fascinating."}, {"response": 5, "author": "LorieS", "date": "Wed, May 21, 1997 (18:49)", "body": "Hi Terry. Glad to see people are still posting here. It seems that most of the Austen bb group has moved on. Anyway, I'm still having lots of fun reading old postings/old threads. Just wish I'd found this place sooner. The Brontes are interesting--the whole family. Complex and interesting, with so many misconceptions written by fond friends/family after they died. The survivor's story gets told, and what is truth? Anyway, to be slightly more helpful here, I thought I'd mention titles and not just authors for Christa. John Irving: A PRayer for Owen Meany; The Cider House Rules M. L'Engle: Certain Women; A Severed Wasp Anne Bronte: The Tenant of Wildfell Hall I wish I could read them all for the first time again! Enjoy."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 21, 1997 (18:59)", "body": "I'm glad folks are still posting here too. We'll keep it going and do what we can to encourage it. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 219, "subject": "Spring Bandwidth Crisis", "response_count": 78, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (08:13)", "body": "Today I got a an unexpected charge of 494.96, added to other unexpected charges of 35.00, 46.00, 119.85, and 578.08. This is over a thousand dollars in unexpected and unbudgeted for charges in the past few days. I have called and left a message with the CEO of Digihost, our bandwidth provider, and told him that it is urgent that we need to talk. I simply can't afford these kinds of charges and can't expect the community to keep coming up with this kind of support as they have been doing. I submitted a new plan to them yesterday. Hopefully, we an resolve something today on this."}, {"response": 2, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (08:15)", "body": "These charges are related mostly to the heavy volume of traffic on spring.net, childrenstory.com, austen.com and firth.com. All the other websites are minimal compared to these. I will drop childresntory.com today, shut it down. But this in itself still won't be enough."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (12:05)", "body": "Terry, I'll do what I can to reduce the bandwidth use at Austen."}, {"response": 4, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (12:26)", "body": "That's not the problem, Ann. I've already paid to move the austen site and increase the bandwidth limits. You can alert me if you're approaching these limites via your administrative control panel, if it works. The problem I'm having with the Digi folks is that their monitoring tools don't work, so how can I know when I'm reaching their bandwidth limits."}, {"response": 5, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (12:32)", "body": "The way it now works for austen.com is that you'll have 500 mb of disk space and 15 gb of data transfer every month. My overage charges are $1/mb for disk space over this and .08/mb for overage above the bandwidth minimum. You *should* be able to see your bandwidth via your admin page, if you can't please let me know. If you can, and you're getting near the limit, let me know and I'll figure out a way to deal with it. This is much more bandwidth and diskspace than you've ever been allotted for austen.com in the past, I submitted this new plan today so it should go in to effect soon."}, {"response": 6, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (12:56)", "body": "Directory Kilobytes Used Percentage HTTP 121,475 47.24% LOGS 134,418 52.27% FTP 554 0.21% MAIL 519 0.2% OTHER 149 0.05% The above are the disk space stats for austen.com. When austen.com was part of the overall plan with all the other sites, this was a big problem. Now that it's on it's own plan, it's only using about half the allotted disk space. But I still an't get any *bandwidth* stats by going to the austen admin page. And that's not fair to us to charge us for more badnwidth when they don't give us the tools to monitor bandwith. The logs can be recycled and archived, but there's no rush on that."}, {"response": 7, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (13:10)", "body": "austen.com used 16,476,833 during the last period."}, {"response": 8, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (13:17)", "body": "So this is 1.6 gb of bandwidth over the 15 gb allotted and the rate would be .08 over this for the 1,476,833 or whatever that would work out to be."}, {"response": 9, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (13:54)", "body": "Ouch!! Anything I should be doing to help?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (14:24)", "body": "I've come up with a solution of sorts. I spoke to Ed Newman at Digi on the phone and he did point out the problem is mostly austen.com's bandwidth and the chat room. So he's going to set us up with a dedicated server where we can run our sites with a much higher bandwidth at a (hopefully) reasonable rate of around $200 a month. I'm pushing for 100 gb of data transfer and as much disk space as this server has hard drive space, probably about16 to 30 gb of space. But for this month and next month I'm going to need as much help as you can muster in the austen, drool and spring communities to pay for these overages. I know we just went through a pledge drive but this is another set of hurdles to jump over till we get a new plan in place. So, I encouurage everyone to sign up for PayPal and complete your sign ups if you haven't yet, and keep the checks coming in the mail and the online PayPal payments coming. Maybe we could put a note on austen.com and a pair of Paypal signup and donate links there like we have on spring.net, these could just be copied and pasted there. This has been a day of decision and negotiation and I think we're getting close to a solution. I appreciate everyone's help on this!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (14:51)", "body": "There is no chat room. What are they talking about?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (17:03)", "body": "ok, i'm confused. (surprised?) anyway, if we are not supposed to have lots of hits, then we can only limit the spring to us and no outsiders. and does the bandwidth thing also count the same user visiting several times a day? so, digihost isn't large enough to handle our business not to mention other websites they service. what if we had our very own servers? i know a guy here who runs his own internet server from his house and works full time outside the home. these may seem like silly questions, but how much is really involved in something like this, aside from the initial expense? and if it helps, you want me to take my website down? (i still have my geo account up and running)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (20:23)", "body": "Karen's right. As far as I know, there IS no chat room and hasn't been once for ages! They shut it down shortly after it went online, over a year ago now. I have moved one of my main bulletin boards off of Austen.com, so that should reduce traffic conciderably (perhaps as much as 25% of Austen traffic). Terry, What do you want me to do about montitoring the bandwidth? or swapping logs? I've never done much of that. (I think I've looked at the bandwidth page and didn't get it to show me any results.) And I don't even know where the logs are. ------ Also, could you explain PayPal to me one more time (Karen's tried a couple of times.) If someone just registers with the place, through the link you gave me a while ago, you get 5 bucks? They don't actually have to buy anything? THis is the include you gave me, does this one do it? (with \"{\" instead of \"<\"): {!-- Begin PayPal Logo --} {!-- {A HREF=\"https://secure.paypal.com/xclick/business=terry%40spring.net&item_name=Years+Membership+in+Spring.net&item_number=1&amount=25.00&no_intl=1&return=http%3A//www.spring.net/paypal\" target=\"_blank\"}{IMG SRC=\" http://images.paypal.com/images/x-click-but7.gif \" BORDER=\"0\" width=72 height=29 ALT=\"Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure!\"}{/A} --} {!-- End PayPal Logo --}"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (20:29)", "body": "LOGS 134,418 52.27% } YIKES!!! Can't we zap those or something? It's a bit rediculous that that log is taking up more than half of the space!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (20:48)", "body": "Gee, according to the austen.com admin page, we've used a whopping 1KB of bandwidth so far this month. Yeah, right!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (22:22)", "body": "Re: PayPal They can't just register; they have to complete the whole process, which involves (1) giving them your bank account number and then (2) reporting back to PayPal the two piddly little deposits they will make into them. Verification is necessary in order for Spring to receive the signup bonus. And, yes, the people don't have to actually transfer money. All they have to do is set up an account and verify it."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (22:35)", "body": "Bank account #, or credit card #, or both?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (22:41)", "body": "I used a check debit Visa card for mine. Karen, did you ever get my $5 ? I know they were giving you a hard time about it!!!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (22:55)", "body": "Terry, did DigiHost change their billing practices? or was their a sudden jump in bandwidth use on the sites? (Looking over traffic on Austen, I wouldn't think the bandwidth would have gone up by much--except I've been trying to remove a lot of files and needed to download them first, as much as 100 MB worth. I should pretty much be done with that for now.)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (23:21)", "body": "Both, Ann. For the last seven months or more I've been able to talk them out of excessive charges. Kat had pretty much been in charge during this time and I could talk to their CEO pretty freely and get things done. They were very understanding and agreeable during this time. That changed in December, I was told that the \"CEO was no longer dealing with the day to day affairs of the business\" and that badnwidth charges and disk charges were to be strictly applied. And I could no longer retroactively \"stack\" my plans to avoid excessive charges. On their side, Ed Newman, the Day to Day Operations Manager realized that they were losing money as a business and they had to act fast to bill their customers for every penny they could. This was great for Digihost. But for us it has been like Pearl Harbor Day. It came swiftly and uncompassionately. They aren't cutting even an inch of slack to their customers where before they would bend over backwards to help us. And my numerous calls and emails to the CEO, David Geier, have been unanswered. He is now barricaded by a jealous front line that denies access to him. I feel like Kat likes her customers and wants to help them like she always has, but her hands are tied by middle management. Ed Newman has become the \"enforcer\" and I have no idea how upper management feels about this, as they are shielded from us. They are blaming the austen chat room for the bamdwidth and I am trying to head off another set of high charges next month. (continued)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (23:24)", "body": "The biggest problem, as I have stated, is that their bandwidth measuring tools simply aren't working and, as Ed Newman say, \"they're working on fixing it\". And he says to call them to get them to generate this information. The problem for me is that I work during the day when they're open and I can't really spend a lot of time with them on the phone having them manually extract this information and they don't respond to emails very well. But that's our only option right now. Ann, feel free to call them on the 800 number if you want to monitor this while they get their act together. With your permission, I will designate you as the official ambassador and contact person for austen.com."}, {"response": 22, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (23:31)", "body": "There is a possible cure for all this. At one time this whole system ran off dedicated servers. Three or four in fact. These were machines which I built and maintained. The problem was maintaining them because they were old 486 boxes with very little disk spaces. But I scratched and clawed my way along and kept them running for years. Now we're in a new era where machines our much faster, disks are cheap and it's possible to have low cost on site maintenance on hosting company built systems. So Ed Newman is devisiing a plan where we can put all our websites on a single server with much higher bandwidth and which we would have total control. It would be system admin work but we would be masters of our own destiny. But we would have to fix things that broke more often ourselves. We're talking all this over now. And I'm trying to come up with the best solution to keep all these communities growing and to make it possible to grow more communities of interest in the future. It would help if more folks entered in to this dialog with their thoughts and ideas."}, {"response": 23, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 12, 2001 (23:50)", "body": "I'm in the chat room now and I see that it's not even running on austen.com, what date was it moved to the other site?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Sat, Jan 13, 2001 (08:52)", "body": "The chatroom on austen.com was closed down by Digihost a long long time ago. They were using other chatrooms at Bravenet and Earthlink and many places, before this one was set up very recently. Ann could probably give you an exact date, but the austen.com chatroom has been shut down for over a year because as Digihost said, \"it was illegal.\" (Ann) Bank account #, or credit card #, or both? Bank account # (A person can send money to anyone by charging it to a credit card, but that does not mean they have set up an account at PayPal.) (Marcia) did you ever get my $5 ? No. They said their rules changed (on whatever date) so that personal accounts didn't get the referral bonus. Because your registration wasn't completed by then, I wasn't going to get it."}, {"response": 25, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Sat, Jan 13, 2001 (09:07)", "body": "...and Ann, you might want to delete all the posts about the person who used someone else's name. All that venting. Must have given the troll a chuckle."}, {"response": 26, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Jan 13, 2001 (09:10)", "body": "I guess the $5 referral bonus *was* too good to be true. I wonder if that applies to the spring's $5 referral bonus as well? I'll have to check on this. It sounds like I still need to at least try and talk to the CEO if the chat room has been closed. I wonder how much bandwidth a chatroom uses and what it cost to run it on one of these other chatroom providers? Are they free?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Jan 13, 2001 (09:11)", "body": "Ooops, slippage with KarenR."}, {"response": 28, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Sat, Jan 13, 2001 (09:30)", "body": "I guess the $5 referral bonus *was* too good to be true. Terry, if you have set up a business account, then you get the signup bonuses. The Austen.com community did not like those other chatroom providers, which is why this new one has been set up by one of their community participants. He is footing the bill. My guess is that Digihost is calling the Tea Room (which Ann just moved off of austen.com yesterday) or what resided at: http://www.austen.com/babble/bindex.cgi the chatroom. It gets a lot of action, but is only a message board. With all these components of austen.com being moved to other host sites, what is the point to having any of it there? If they leave, you lose THE major source of ongoing funding."}, {"response": 29, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Jan 13, 2001 (10:13)", "body": "That's the point. And I'm working on solving that by moving to a dedicated host where we can have everything on the same server. I have already upgraded our plan for more bandwidth and disk space and am negotiating for a dedicated server. I have set up a PayPal business account, so I am getting these bonuses. I'll check the PayPal log to make sure."}, {"response": 30, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Sat, Jan 13, 2001 (13:16)", "body": "Whoa!! So does this mean that you'll have to do all the sys adm work, Terry? If the server goes down, so do all of us and we'd have to rely on you to bring it back up? In addition, Digihost would do normal, ongoing maintenance and perform upgrades to its own servers. Who is going to do that for this dedicated server? Let's not be rash here."}, {"response": 31, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Jan 13, 2001 (14:04)", "body": "I think we're moving toward a hybrid plan where they do some of the stuff and I have ability to do sysadmin work also. They would maintain the server. We won't go ahead with this without a great deal of thought and dicussion rigthfirsfirst away and we'll see how that works out first. I promise not make any rash moves!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "lafn", "date": "Sat, Jan 13, 2001 (16:28)", "body": "As a member at large, may I say that I have been v. satisfied with Digihost service. I hope you can get the financial admin stuff ironed out, and keep them on the technical side."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Jan 13, 2001 (22:17)", "body": "Very shortly after moving to DigiHost (like within a month), they shut our chat room down, kaput, finito. We spent about a year on commercial chat services (ATT, Bravenet, etc.) trying to find a new home, before a philanthropic fellow on our site set up one for us. (It's with the hosting company http://readyhosting.com , which you might want to look at: $99/year + unlimited bandwidth + 500MB space + they pay for domain registration (usually a $35/year cost). They have a $50 first time set up fee, which might be waved for domain transfers.) ------ Karen might be right that they are referring to \"The Tea Room\", which is a CGI bulletin board, not a chat room, http://www.TheDWG.com/babble/bindex.cgi . This was running on the Austen.com servers until yesterday, when I moved it to my www.TheDWG.com account, also with ReadyHosting. This leaves the DWG board as the main drag from Austen.com on the Spring servers (we have 3 other boards which get small to minimal traffic). I think the Tea Room Board gets a bit less usage than the DWG board, but without tracking and monitoring abilities, I have no way of knowing for certain! Either way, having the Tea Room and the DWG on different servers with different hosting companies should be beneficial for the Spring. ---------- With all these components of austen.com being moved to other host sites, what is the point to having any of it there? So far I've only moved some of the older stories in the archives (about 100 MB worth--it's a big archives, well over 1,000 stories--though not all of that has been deleted from Austen.com yet) and I've moved one of the two large message boards. I do kind of like the idea of splitting the site between two hosting companies. It seems to me like insurance, in case one of them goes down or belly-up. We've always maintained an emergency board at InsideTheWeb for that purpose. Also, by splitting the site up, we will lessen the strain on any one computer or host. It will cost me only $99/year to run www.TheDWG.com, and after the first two years, that will include the $35 domain registration fee (for a net of $64/year.) That's a great price and I figured it was worth it. ------ With your permission, I will designate you as the official ambassador and contact person for austen.com. I might contact them to find out what is going on, but I don't know if I want to be an official contact. For one thing, I only have one phone line which is tied up with my computer most of the day. For another thing, I hate telephones and loathe making calls--to the point where I procrastinate until there is no point in calling at all. (I was never the stereotypical teenage girl who hung on the phone for hours. Yick!) I'm a bad person to delegate the phone work to."}, {"response": 34, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sun, Jan 14, 2001 (11:03)", "body": "I don't want you to be a phone jockey, Ann, I just wanted to have it so you could talk to our hosts when you need to. With the move to the new Plan, disk space should not be a problem. And I can negotiate more bandwidth. I'd like to compare what we're getting now with austen.com with what we could get with another host, especially one that doesn't charge for extra bandwidth. I'll take a look at readyhosting today."}, {"response": 35, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sun, Jan 14, 2001 (11:05)", "body": "Readyhosting, it turns out, is Windows 2000 hosting. It might be tough to run some scripts and software."}, {"response": 36, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Jan 15, 2001 (09:13)", "body": "Here are some other options I'm looking at, if anyone else wants to review these and give me their opinions, I'd love more input. http://webservices.cnet.com/html/aisles/Most_Popular_-_Dedicated_Servers.asp"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Jan 26, 2001 (15:14)", "body": "Terry, can you get a hold of any bandwidth data for Austen over the last week or two? I've been wondering how much the drop has been since I moved part of the site to a different ISP on the 12th."}, {"response": 38, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 26, 2001 (18:08)", "body": "I'll see what I can dig up. Of course now austen.com has expanded limites on badnwidth and disk space since I \"upgraded\" our plan."}, {"response": 39, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 26, 2001 (18:13)", "body": "HTTP 1/01 - 1/26: 0 KB 30 Day Total: 1,041,607 KB FTP 1/01 - 1/26: 0 KB 30 Day Total: 807 KB POP-3 1/01 - 1/26: 0 KB 30 Day Total: 1,767 KB SMTP 1/01 - 1/26: 0 KB 30 Day Total: 0 KB TELNET 1/01 - 1/26: 0 KB 30 Day Total: 0 KB OTHER 1/01 - 1/26: 0 KB 30 Day Total: 295 KB We're no where near our limit of 15 gbs!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 26, 2001 (18:14)", "body": "Successful requests: 40,082 Average successful requests per day: 40,108 Successful requests for pages: 4,684 Average successful requests for pages per day: 4,686 Failed requests: 503 Redirected requests: 79 Distinct files requested: 1,536 Corrupt logfile lines: 1 Data transferred: 368,324 kbytes Average data transferred per day: 368,580 kbytes More austen.com stats."}, {"response": 41, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 26, 2001 (18:16)", "body": "Directory Kilobytes Used Percentage HTTP 129,412 47.34% LOGS 141,466 51.75% FTP 554 0.2% MAIL 1,760 0.64% OTHER 168 0.06% Space Kilobytes Percentage USED 273,360 54.67% FREE 226,640 45.32% TOTAL 500,000 100%"}, {"response": 42, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jan 26, 2001 (18:23)", "body": "Really, no worries about bandwidth and diskspace now, last month was the killer for me financially and I'm still trying to recover."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Jan 26, 2001 (21:58)", "body": "Looks like the move of one of our boards cut bandwidth by 400-500MB. Good :)"}, {"response": 44, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Feb  9, 2001 (13:54)", "body": "Having Webtrends on both spring.net and austen.com will give us a much better handle on our bandwidth and visitor trends. And it's open to anyone. http://www.spring.net/_webtrends http://www.austen.com/_webtrends"}, {"response": 45, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Tue, Feb 27, 2001 (21:00)", "body": "It's slightly worrying that the top hit for the entire site is 404 NOT FOUND http://spring.net/404.html don't you think? :-)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Feb 28, 2001 (09:58)", "body": "That's because we have so many broken links, and I intend to fix them sometime when I have a lot of time. I'm researching link reporting tools that are better than the one offered by Frontpage."}, {"response": 47, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Wed, Feb 28, 2001 (12:09)", "body": "anything I can help with, let me know. I have a DSL line at home now so access is much easier."}, {"response": 48, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Feb 28, 2001 (19:58)", "body": "Hey that's great, you can help me fix broken links if you want (heh heh!)"}, {"response": 49, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Mar  1, 2001 (08:04)", "body": "sure thing. how do you want them fixed?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Mar  1, 2001 (09:43)", "body": "Mike, here's what you need to download: http://home.snafu.de/tilman/XENU.ZIP Xenu's Link Sleuth (TM) Here's what it does: Xenu's Link Sleuth (TM) does not have the graphic capabilities of WebAnalyzer 2.0 (\"Wavefront view\"). But here are some of the advantages of Xenu's Link Sleuth (TM): It is free Simple user-interface Better error reports (not just \"network error\") \"Save\" works also while the software is busy The \"broken links view\" shows only broken links; In WebAnalyzer you'd have to press the button again and again as the window fills with crap. While Xenu does not offer an \"update\" facility (which doesn't work anyway), it has a \"recheck broken links\" function that works fine. It is small, written by one person with 5 years experience of Windows development and 15 years of professional experience as software developer. This means that bugs will be corrected quickly. This is a matter of honour. The report can be viewed easily, even when you have long URLs. Uses much less disk space for intermediate files, executable file much smaller Loading of saved files much faster (WebAnalyzer loses time by displaying the extra graphics) Supports SSL websites (\"https:// \") Partial testing of ftp and gopher sites Special handling of redirected URLs Site Map Randomization of checking order, means less concurrent requests on a single server The bottom line is that it will point out all our broken links. Once you've ran Xenu, then I'll set you up with authorship privileges. Email me for the details on this (terry@spring.net)."}, {"response": 51, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Mar  1, 2001 (11:20)", "body": "running it now...the links to Visto on the main page are broken. i bet that's contributing massively to the 404 count :-)"}, {"response": 52, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Mar 18, 2001 (00:30)", "body": "Terry, The last time I ran Xenu it worked fine but I didn't have enough hours (!!!) left to let it finish before I had to go to sleep. Now when I run it, it doesn't seem able to find my network connection. A few other pieces of software (Outlook Express, RealPlayer, Yahoo! messenger) seem to be exhibiting this behaviour too. I am trying to work on fixing the problem but don't really know where to start. I'll let you know if I get it working!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Mar 19, 2001 (08:47)", "body": "Cool, thanks for giving it a run, Mike."}, {"response": 54, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Wed, Mar 21, 2001 (15:43)", "body": "Has anyone else noticed that the new server seems to be rather slow??? I've been noticing that slowness particularly when I'm FTPing things. This has been going on for several days."}, {"response": 55, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Mar 25, 2001 (06:24)", "body": "I have decided not to use Xenu, Terry, for this reason. It logs into the spring under my username and then proceeds to follow every single link that I can see. I logged in on Thursday to discover about five conferences missing from my conference list and a whole load of new ones added...you can see what it's done if you think about it! The thing I'm worried about is that I have kill permissions in a couple of confs (babes and business) and I would prefer not to wipe out entire conferences just to check whether there are any broken links in there!!!!! Do you have any ideas?"}, {"response": 56, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Sun, Mar 25, 2001 (07:25)", "body": "Mike, the link to Visto on Drool's main page is probably generating a ton of those \"can't find\" messages. Can you delete that without killing permissions or wiping out the conference? If not, leave as is. Thanks. K"}, {"response": 57, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Mar 25, 2001 (10:39)", "body": "Yeah, there are several links to Visto around the place. I would say that they are generating at least 80-90% of the 404 hits :-) I don't yet have any kind of write permissions to the servers...Terry, am I going to clean these up or would you prefer to do it?"}, {"response": 58, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Mar 26, 2001 (08:29)", "body": "We need to get rid of them, go ahead and replace them all with Paypal banners. We're going to set up a Paypal shop soon."}, {"response": 59, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, Mar 26, 2001 (14:09)", "body": "I don't have any kind of access or write permissions yet, Terry :-)"}, {"response": 60, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Mar 26, 2001 (15:00)", "body": "I'll set up an ftp account for you and a FP2000 account if you need it."}, {"response": 61, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, Mar 26, 2001 (15:37)", "body": "just an ftp will be fine. I don't use FrontPage."}, {"response": 62, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Mar 26, 2001 (15:42)", "body": "OK email me."}, {"response": 63, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Mar 27, 2001 (08:00)", "body": "Done! Welcome Mike to our web authoring community."}, {"response": 64, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Tue, Mar 27, 2001 (12:38)", "body": "got 'em, thanks :) Won't be able to do anything until next week...got a busy weekend of visiting mom!"}, {"response": 65, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Mar 27, 2001 (18:25)", "body": "Say hi to mom."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Mar 28, 2001 (15:32)", "body": "Terry, can you log into Spring using Frontpage? If you can, then you should be able to swap the visto banners on the front part of the site easily (I don't know about the conferences). I remember I created that as an include. You should be able to log on through FrontPage, pull up the include page, and change it. It should change it everywhere that include appears. If you need help doing this, let me know. It should be very easy."}, {"response": 67, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Wed, Mar 28, 2001 (16:50)", "body": "But just make sure it doesn't affect my Bucket pages, with some global replacement stuff...especially since I'll be away for a few days and can't fix things while gone."}, {"response": 68, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Mar 29, 2001 (09:05)", "body": "OK, we'll be careful. Are you going to do any mods on spring.net, if you do I'd like to make that search feature a small text only box that fits in better with the whole page. I'm also looking for ways to get the page to load faster."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Mar 29, 2001 (09:47)", "body": "I don't think I have the passwords anymore. If you want me to look at things, e-mail me with them (FrontPage ones.) Karen, changing the includes shouldn't touch your pages. It's not a global replace at all, it's just altering one of the pieces that make up the front pages."}, {"response": 70, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Mar 29, 2001 (10:04)", "body": "Email me Ann, and I'll reply with the information you need. Or email me your phone number if you like and I'll call. I don't know if the phone number I have in my Palm is the right one."}, {"response": 71, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Mar 29, 2001 (10:13)", "body": "I set you up, but I get an answering machine at the number where I try to reach you. It's in the 612 area code?"}, {"response": 72, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Mar 29, 2001 (11:17)", "body": "Check your ann@austen.com mailbox. Let me know whatever you need, I would appreciate your help on changing the include so it's the PayPal logo we have on our main page instead of Visto."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Mar 29, 2001 (16:27)", "body": "I got the e-mail. I think I know what the problem with file size is. For some reason, that MSTheme thing that I took out when I redesigned the site is back in there. It takes up a lot of space."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Mar 29, 2001 (16:42)", "body": "Voila, the Visto banners at the top of the pages should all now be PayPal. FYI, it is really, really easy to swap those in and out. Just: Log into the site through FrontPage. (it must be through front page, the change won't be made everywhere, if you do not.) Open up index.html Right click on the Banner Select \"Open include page /_private/Banner-adTop.htm\" (or whatever it's called) Make the changes Save the file and close it. That should change it everywhere it occurs."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Mar 29, 2001 (17:18)", "body": "BTW, I didn't touch the banners on the conferences. They seem to still be Visto. I have no clue how to change those and wouldn't want to try. I just did the pages you get when you click on the www.spring.net page and all the branches from there."}, {"response": 76, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Mar 29, 2001 (21:06)", "body": "That Search feature on the front page was remarkably stubborn when it came to tweaking. I think I cleaned it up a bit, though :)"}, {"response": 77, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, May 21, 2001 (07:25)", "body": "We've had a wonderful response to our current Pledge Drive and have received way over a dozen contributions. Thanks to everyone. I got a substantial bundle of checks sent in by Ann and quite a few Paypal contributions. And I've noticed a lot of new contributors. This really keeps us alive and growing!"}, {"response": 78, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 12, 2001 (13:11)", "body": "Anyone who needs access to the conferences can do so by using SecureCRT or another ssh client. That's how I'm posting. Email me for specific instructions and I'll get you running on this. If you already have a shell account \b\b\b it's a pretty easy step. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 220, "subject": "Mr. Darcy takes a Wife and the Jane Austen explosion", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 24, "subject": "Outer garments", "response_count": 15, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (11:08)", "body": "Lizzie is like my childern. She dosen't need warm cloaks to keep her warm. They all always underdressed for the weather. Even when she got married she didn't wear a cloak. Oh but, Mr. Darcy was there, he would keep her warm, I am sure being in that carriage would be like riding a bike,the wind blowing in your face, Burrr! very cold indeed."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (13:26)", "body": "I wondered how much Lizzy's lack of insulation in P&P2 reflected Ehle's taste; she implied in \"The Making of P&P\" that she didn't like being heavily dressed."}, {"response": 3, "author": "norma", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (11:08)", "body": "Like Donna, I was troubled by Lizzy's lack of a cloak in the carriage scene after the wedding. Jane is wearing a cloak. The carriage is open, and the season is winter. Very cold indeed!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (13:10)", "body": "Ladies, let's talk d\ufffdcolletage. How true to the period were the lowcut gowns in P&P2? Was this something done to make the production more \"sexy\" or was this in fact the fashion of the day? Enquiring minds want to know!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (15:56)", "body": "I think it's real, Amy. Henry some Regency fashion plate somewhere on his page, and links to other sources I think."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (15:58)", "body": "I think it's real, Amy. Henry has some Regency fashion plates somewhere on his page, and links to other sources I think. Jane Info page off links link here."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (16:17)", "body": "I had the impression that the low-cut dresses were usually kept for the evening, and with candlelight only the effect would have been less marked. Dresses in paintings I've seen were more like those in Persuasion; higher cut in the day, decolletage at night."}, {"response": 8, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (17:07)", "body": "Interesting. You'll note that even at breakfast, Lydia was definitely wearing some lowcut frocks. Ditto other cast members."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (17:09)", "body": "Was it in P&P1 that such a big deal was made of \"tucking lace?\""}, {"response": 10, "author": "jane", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (17:44)", "body": "I suspect that some of the ladies were wearing their Wonder-corsets under their nighties. Maybe I'm just envious of those figures. And yes, Amy, I do remember that Lydia had much trouble with her lace in P&P1, though Jane and Lizzie of course managed to hang on to theirs. Jane"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (17:45)", "body": "I must admit that in P&P2 I thought the decolletage was intended to hold the attention of the male viewers (tv audience that is) rather than the male characters; they needed someting to look at while we were admiring thighs... yes it was in P&P1 that lace was tucked, I thought it a wonderful touch; very much in character for Lydia and her mother (I loved the line about Charlotte not needing to tuck lace)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (19:13)", "body": "http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/ppbrokil.html"}, {"response": 13, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (10:53)", "body": "And when Lydia's lace slipped in P&P1, as I recall, Mrs. Bennett remarked to Mary something on the lines of: \"Don't worry about Lydia. Lydia looks very well.\" I agree with Anna -- I think a lot of the daytime decolletage was something of a BBC Hollywood touch. . ."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (11:43)", "body": "If you are able to get \"The Illustrated Letters of Jane Austen.\" You will see that the bosom was shown as a place for adorement. Quote \"I have lower the bosom especially at the corners, and plaited black satin ribbon round the top.\" Jane Austen Henrietta St.March 9,1814 page 114. She said she would wear this gauzy gown today nothing about the time of day."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (11:48)", "body": "One more thing she said was \" long sleeves and all: I shall see how they succeed, but as yet I have no reason to suppose long sleeves are allowable.\" austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 25, "subject": "Sickly and Cross", "response_count": 22, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:46)", "body": "I agree completely Ann. Anne de Bourgh's sickness could probably be miraculously cured by removing her from Rosings."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:47)", "body": "I recollect that in P&P1, when Lizzy is leaving Rosings the last time, Anne de Bourgh takes farewell as if she shall really miss Lizzy. She must have enjoyed to watch someone young and female who could stand up to Lady Cath. Maybe wishing she would be as brave herself.Poor girl..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "IF", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (11:00)", "body": "I always had this thought that Lady C liked Lizzy, in a strange way of course and the reason she liked her was because Lady C saw in Lizzy what she wanted Anne to be like.Any thoughts?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (12:00)", "body": "Irene I do think she was getting use to having Lizzie around for deversfied converstation but she would never be her friend. She felt Lizzies was beneath her.She never has a good word for anyone except her \"Apothecary\". Thats because she has all the answers. The other thing about Anne that could be true L.C. definitly was jealous of Lizzie."}, {"response": 5, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (16:47)", "body": "Well, Lady C. liked Lizzy well enough to bid her stay \"a month complete\" and travel to London with her in the barouche (sp?) box. I also feel that Ann was never really sick -- being \"sickly\" seemed her way of not having to do anything, from learning to play the piano to talking to possible suitors. Kind of like the Victorian women and their \"headaches.\""}, {"response": 6, "author": "redfive", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (13:35)", "body": "A couple of observations: In the book, Ann de Bourgh is described as having little to say for herself apart from talking in a low voice to her companion, Mrs Jenkinson. In the game of quadrille after the first dinner at Rosings, she utters \"scarcely a syllable that was not related to the game\" and the table of four is described as \"superlatively stupid\" - what a wonderfully dismissive line! In the film P&P0, Lady C, having failed to get Lizzie's agreement to refuse to marry Darcy, commends Lizzie to Darcy (\"She's right for you\") and Darcy tells Lizzie \"You evidently confirmed the good opinion she formed of you at Rosings\" - talk about poetic licence on the part of the adaptor (none other than Aldous Huxley!) However, the book is quite definitive about Lady C's opinion as it states that after Darcy writes to tell her of the forthcoming marriage she \"gave way to all the genuine frankness of he character, in her reply .... she sent him language so very abusive, expecially of Elizabeth, that for some time all intercourse was at an end.\""}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (16:54)", "body": "It's a little odd in a way, because Lady Catherine's first impression of Elizabeth (in P&P2) is that she's a \"very pretty, genteel sort of girl.\" She likes her well enough to offer to transport her to London in the barouche box, but I guess not well enough to be a daughter-in-law. I somehow feel that beneath all the contempt, Lady C. actually respects Elizabeth for speaking her mind, in the same way that Darcy does. Perhaps that's why (in the book) she eventually reconciles herself to the match."}, {"response": 8, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (06:42)", "body": "In the film, why does Anne de Bourgh accompany Lady Catherine in the carriage when she goes to Longbourne??"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (06:54)", "body": "Henry, I wasn't sure you had ever even seen P&P2."}, {"response": 10, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (07:20)", "body": "\"why does Anne de Bourgh accompany Lady Catherine' Perhaps Lady C. intends (after getting Lizzie to renounce any claim on Darcy) to trot her directly over to Darcy's home and insist on having their engagement formalized?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (08:34)", "body": "She doesn't have anything better to do."}, {"response": 12, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (13:31)", "body": "\"why does Anne de Bourgh accompany Lady Catherine\" So we can see the half-blank, half-disappointed look on her face when momma failed in her first attempt to save the arranged marriage."}, {"response": 13, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (20:21)", "body": "I gathered because Ann's fate was at stake. And it was great seeing the contract between Lizzie -- giving Lady C. what-for at carriage-side -- and her mute, unpleasant daughter. Talk about a difference between Darcy's potential future wives!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (01:35)", "body": "Amy2: \" Talk about a difference between Darcy's potential future wives!\" Yes, I am sure when he saw them side by side in the same room at Rosings, that there was not the slightest bit of doubt as to which to choose! Poor Ann, she really didn't stand a chance, did she?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (22:21)", "body": "Hey! Careful of your \"e\"'s. It's Anne not me!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (00:17)", "body": "Cheryl: \"Poor Ann, she really didn't stand a chance, did she? \" Ann: \"Hey! Careful of your \"e\"'s. It's Anne not me!\" So sorry Ann, I did not mean to impugn your character! And I am sure that you stand a much greater chance with Darcy than the unfortunate Miss Ann e de Bourgh did! There, have I placated you? :-)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Arnessa", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (00:23)", "body": "Maybe Lady C never let Anne out of her sight for too long."}, {"response": 18, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (00:27)", "body": "That is an interesting point. What kind of courtship could Anne D. and Darcy have had with Lady C. oppressing Anne and demanding to be the center of attention at all times?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (15:27)", "body": "Can you just imagine how awful a mother-in-law Lady C would make?! I am quite certain that Darcy would never have married Anne De Bourgh, Elizabeth or no Elizabeth. (Her Ladyship would have tried to run both Rosings and Pemberley.)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (22:53)", "body": "Ann, we could never confuse you with the sickly and cross Miss de Bourgh! Was Lady C. living in a dream world, BTW? How could she _not_ notice Darcy's complete indifference to her daughter? I don't recall that the two ever spoke a single word during his stay at Rosings (of course, I don't believe she spoke to anyone)."}, {"response": 21, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "It probably did'nt even matter in Lady C's conception of marriage."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (11:40)", "body": "Moved from dupe topic: __ Topic 105 of 181 [austen]: Sickly and Cross Response 1 of 5: Arnessa (Arnessa) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:46) * 1 lines I agree completely Ann. Anne de Bourgh's sickness could probably be miraculously cured by removing her from Rosings. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 105 of 181 [austen]: Sickly and Cross Response 2 of 5: Ann Rydberg (Ann2) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:47) * 4 lines I recollect that in P&P1, when Lizzy is leaving Rosings the last time, Anne de Bourgh takes farewell as if she shall really miss Lizzy. She must have enjoyed to watch someone young and female who could stand up to Lady Cath. Maybe wishing she would be as brave herself.Poor girl... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 105 of 181 [austen]: Sickly and Cross Response 3 of 5: Irene Fisher (IF) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (11:00) * 1 lines I always had this thought that Lady C liked Lizzy, in a strange way of course and the reason she liked her was because Lady C saw in Lizzy what she wanted Anne to be like.Any thoughts? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 105 of 181 [austen]: Sickly and Cross Response 4 of 5: Donna (Donna) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (12:00) * 1 lines Irene I do think she was getting use to having Lizzie around for deversfied converstation but she would never be her friend. She felt Lizzies was beneath her.She never has a good word for anyone except her \"Apothecary\". Thats because she has all the answers. The other thing about Anne that could be true L.C. definitly was jealous of Lizzie. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 105 of 181 [austen]: Sickly and Cross Response 5 of 5: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (16:47) * 1 lines Well, Lady C. liked Lizzy well enough to bid her stay \"a month complete\" and travel to London with her in the barouche (sp?) box. I also feel that Ann was never really sick -- being \"sickly\" seemed her way of not having to do anything, from learning to play the piano to talking to possible suitors. Kind of like the Victorian women and their \"headaches.\" austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 26, "subject": "Martha Stewart", "response_count": 31, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "I don't loathe Martha,just that I was very disappointed in \"Living\"magazine. Everyother page is an ad. One thing I do have to say is she saved me from throwing away bakeware that I thought was junk. I found out that this \"very small\" piece is worth $50.00. I still watch when I have a chance. Terry nothing is that perfect. She does admit that herself. What I have noticed on her show is she is having other people demonstrate their talents. All I know is that I really wouldn't mind having a kitchen like Martha's."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (20:23)", "body": "I agree Donna. She has become such an industry."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "would anyone actually want things to actually be that perfect? All your friends would desert you, and it would be nerve-wracking to live is such a place. Imagine spilling red wine on the carpet."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (22:43)", "body": "I agree with the above comments. When I occasionally see Stewart on some show or other, I think \"what a good idea\" and then five minutes later I forget all about it. Can't say I'd want to be that domesticated, but her kitchen does look heavenly. Wonder if she actually uses it every day? ;-)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (03:39)", "body": "Inko: \" her kitchen does look heavenly. Wonder if she actually uses it every day? ;-)\" Yeah right! And Sue Ann Nivens used her real kitchen for her TV show too! ;-)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (06:20)", "body": "My favorite Martha Stewart moment was the first time I saw \"her\" calendar in the front of Living. The entry for October 10 said, \"clean around the furnace\". I had quite a clear picture of Martha down there in her basement in her grubbies, cleaning around the furnace. And Sue Ann Nivens used her real kitchen for her TV show too! ;-)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (09:17)", "body": ":I don't loathe Martha,just that I was very disappointed in \"Living\"magazine. Everyother page is an ad. I read from WSJ a while ago that the entire Martha Stewart enterprise is actually loosing money, including the magazine, mainly because she wants everything to be so perfect and the cost becomes really high. For example, if she needs to have a pillow picture in the magazine, other magazines will just go out find a nice fabric and make it or even a ready-made one, but Martha has to have the whole thing custom-designed and custom-made starting from the fabric. Being perfect do comes with a price. Zimei"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (20:25)", "body": "You know that show Sunday Morning on CBS? They had a guy review Martha Stewart as if he were Martha Stewart. They showed him making a wreath out of beer cans, bubble gums wrappers, etc. while juxtaposing shots of Martha's picture perfect wreath made out of handpicked items out of her gorgeous formal garden. Is she married?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "I saw that same show Terry. I think she is single at the moment,Terry."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (21:19)", "body": "Terry loves geeks?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (21:37)", "body": "Martha Stewart is a geek? I think the guy on CBS is a geek."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "Single? Amazing."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Lin", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:35)", "body": "terry, I know for sure that she is single at the moment. She was married at one time but got divorced. She also has one daughter. Gosh, she's not as perfect as we think she is!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:38)", "body": "] was married at one time but got divorced. She also has one daughter. Gosh, she's not as perfect as we think she is! __ And precisely what is that supposed to mean?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:46)", "body": "Janet Rossman, where are you? Janet wrote a great Martha spoof at Amy's old board...I wish she would bring herself to register at Spring! Janet! COme back!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:25)", "body": "I want this! Come back Janet! (anyone know how to get in touch with her?)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Lin", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (18:57)", "body": "]] was married at one time but got divorced. She also has one daughter. Gosh, she's not as perfect as we think she is! __ ]And precisely what is that supposed to mean? ___ Just saying that she's not perfect! (like the rest of us)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:19)", "body": "Terry, Janet is a chat regular who is currently in Disneyworld. Unfortunately, she is still mourning the loss of Amy's old board and can't bring herself to post here...perhaps we could break the ice for her by persuading her to share her Martha-P&P parody? ;) I will e-mail her about it!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (00:15)", "body": "\"...was married at one time but got divorced ... Gosh, she's not as perfect...\" Amy - not to offend all the divorced people in the world (who are often only admitting they had better sense at 30 than at 22) but there is a delicious current of irony in the woman who has somehow become a national icon of gracious living being unable to achieve perfection in the basic unit of social living."}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:56)", "body": "Has anyone else heard the stories that she is a very wild woman?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:25)", "body": "Wild in what way do you mean Terry?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (04:16)", "body": "Yeah, did you guys know that Martha was raised in a fraternity house? ;)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (07:27)", "body": "Yeah, did you guys know that Martha was raised in a fraternity house? ;) Is that like being raised by wolves?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (11:16)", "body": "LOL! Myrette, LOL!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Lin", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "]but there is a delicious current of irony in the woman who has somehow become a national icon of gracious living being unable to achieve perfection in the basic unit of social living. Thank you, Katy! I couldn't have said it better myself!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (16:10)", "body": "]gracious living The 'a place for every cushion and every cushion in it's place' effect would probably be easier to achieve living alone; it's not got much to do with real life after all."}, {"response": 27, "author": "del", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:08)", "body": "Recreation: Home and Garden: Martha Stewart : Parodies"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "Right on, Myretta! Very much like the wolf thing, I'm sure - but obviously much more strict an upbringing...otherwise, how would she have so completely and successfully rebelled? ;)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "alix", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (18:08)", "body": "One just can't help but wonder if maybe, just maybe, she drove her husband away? I mean, perhaps all those four A.M. wake up calls and re-modeling the interior of the birdhouse pushed him over the edge. Oh, and did anyone see her reciepe(?) fof wrapping paper? Gingerbread. So, do you open the gift one bite at a time with a nice white?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (22:03)", "body": "' ... re-modeling the interior of the birdhouse ... \" PERFECT - MAD MAGAZINE DOES MARTHA STEWART!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "alix", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (19:12)", "body": "Thanks, now I know the one place that I can get a job! ;) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 27, "subject": "Proposed new conferences on the Spring", "response_count": 26, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (09:54)", "body": "OK here's my list, I start with the exitings conferences and then list the proposed new conferences in order of importance. Which of these would potentially interest you? These are the conferences we have now 10 apps 10 art 10 austen 10 austentest 10 austin 10 books 10 community 10 computer 10 cultures 10 deeper 10 dpo 10 dsm 10 environment 10 fitness 10 food 10 internet 10 lovelinks 10 media 10 movies 10 music 10 newtest 10 parent 10 poetry 10 politics 10 porch 10 projects 10 radio 10 restaurants 10 sex 10 sports 10 techbusiness 10 travel 10 tv 10 web 10 windows 10 yapp 10 These are highest on my list to create next 9 business 9 capcity 9 couples 9 crafts 9 culture 9 genx 9 health 9 homeowner 9 hosts 9 interviews 9 jazz 9 languages 9 life 9 newage 9 psychology 9 religion 9 science 9 singles 9 software 9 southwest 9 spirit 9 therapy 9 unix 9 working 9 And so on... 8 usenet 8 wireless 8 writing 8 7 boomers 7 country 7 feedback 7 games 7 golf 7 hacking 7 java 7 philosophy 7 photography 7 scifi 7 space 7 zines 7 6 boating 6 cooking 6 energy 6 filmmaking 6 lists 6 weird 6 5 bastrop 5 beatles 5 disability 5 earth 5 news 5 springkids 5 theater 5 veggie 5 water 5 4 aging 4 apple 4 buddhism 4 cars 4 classifieds 4 comics 4 drugs 4 eff 4 newyork 4 os2 4 outdoors 4 sanfran 4 tibet 4 wildlife"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (10:38)", "body": "Terry, you already know my feeling about way general topics that internet users can get anywhere. Give em something they can't get anywhere else."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (11:24)", "body": "Of the above, which do you feel would fall in that category. Do you, or does anyone, have any suggestions for some specific topics or already formed communities that we could extend an invitation to?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (16:34)", "body": "Terry, you list is so inclusive it leaves me almost lost for words. Certainly lost for further ideas."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (17:46)", "body": "Just pick *one* that most appeals to you out of the whole list then."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (18:26)", "body": "Terry - Why not look for other groups like us? I did a search for \"WWWBoard created by Matt Wright\" and came up with several groups that might be outgrowing Matt's script. You could contact them by e-mail and suggest that they move their BB over here - it could generate more traffic for both of you! I'm sure that someone with some PR experience (Amy?), could help you word the letter so that they'd know that they would still be the host and could modify the header to their forum, etc - but not have the technical headaches of managing a CGI script. Here's what I've found so far: http://microimg.com/win95board/wwwboard.html http://www.nhn.ou.edu/~howard/cgi-bin/wwwboard.html http://www.wantree.com.au/~eagle1/wc_chat/wc_chat.html http://www.fangz.com/~sysop/wwwboard/wwwboard.html http://rossby.metr.uoknor.edu/~jgreen/msgboard/home.html http://www.nea.org/goodschools/teachwb.html http://www.off-road.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html http://www.orafans.com/ http://ssi.parlorcity.com/rbrown/wwwboard/wwwboard.html http://e-flight.com/e-flight/wwwboard/wwwboard.html http://www.usscreen.com/message/classified/ad.html http://www.vie.com/sniper/suggboard/suggboard.html http://gearhead.com/wwwboard.html http://www.treknet.is/saemund/wwwboard/wwwboard.htm http://profitproducer.com/wwwboard.shtml"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "Good idea, Kaff. Terry, you could include a testimonial from me. But let me see it first if you ghost it for me."}, {"response": 8, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (22:28)", "body": "This is the voice of experience speaking. You can spend all kinds of time creating beautiful conferences for specific purposes that someone thinks will be of interest, and then watch them stand there vacant. Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt. Several T-shirts, in fact, and even a pair of logo-ized suspenders. It only works the other way around. You have to start with the nucleus of a group of people with a burning interest in communicating about something, and build the conference(s) around them and ther needs. And as their needs and interests expand, expand along with them. Here we have a bunch of literature freaks who have all of a sudden decided that they want to \"do\" html - and want a place to experiment and practice. So Donna is out there posting Burma Shave signs all over the place directing people to her newly created practice room. And if you had asked her a few months ago - even a few weeks ago - if she would be interested in joining a \"learn html\" group she would probably not even have given it a passing look. There are many excellent \"learn html\" sites all over the web - but they are not in the right \"place\" at the right time or pitched at the right \"difficulty level\" for this group. You can't start with the places; you have to start with actual people (not theoretical ones) and whatever it is that they \"need\". And a group such as ours can't \"do it\" for any other group - whoever \"\"they are will (as we did) do it for themselves - one way or another. The trick is, as Kaff points out, to find them and interest them in doing it here."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "\"Burma Shave\" God! Joan your showing your age. It is not even advertised on TV anymore. LOL! You know I received a book a month ago for HTML, because I told you so. In the first place I bought a computer to learn how to use it and whatever else that entails. Never did I think that I would find Amy's BB and do nothing else. I have been ready to learn HTML for a while Joan. Anne's page has been a great source of \"help\" now, to get me to learn more about HTML. \">"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (23:09)", "body": "\"Burma Shave\" God! Joan your showing your age. It is not even advertised on TV anymore. LOL! You know I received a book a month ago for HTML, because I told you so. In the first place I bought a computer to learn how to use it and whatever else that entails. Never did I think that I would find Amy's BB and do nothing else. I have been ready to learn HTML for a while Joan. Anne's page has been a great source of \"help\" now, to get me to learn more about HTML. \">"}, {"response": 11, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (01:55)", "body": ""}, {"response": 12, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (08:25)", "body": ""}, {"response": 13, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (08:29)", "body": ""}, {"response": 14, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (08:48)", "body": "Huh?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (08:51)", "body": ""}, {"response": 16, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (08:52)", "body": "Okay I know what I did wrong."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (12:25)", "body": "Terry, to be honest, I would only be really interested in any other groups if there were more hours in my day.I have checked out some of your other conferences, and like them, but right now, I cannot spread my big mouth any further(and it's probably better that way.)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (12:59)", "body": "Terry - I belong to two mailing lists that might do get excited about a conference. One is for cheerleading (my favorite teen's passion). Possible threads are stunting, try-outs, new cheers, disicpline, chat, university scholorships, coaching, national and regional competitions, TV broadcasts of competitions. Bet you did not know there was so much to talk about on this subject. I get about 10-15 letters a day from that list. the address of the list-serv is cheerleader-l@frank.mtsu.edu. the other is a Pfaff sewing list, one of several sewing lists, usually centered around the computerized embrodery machines. I get about 50 sewing posts a day. Possible topics: Brand and model comparisons, new software, quilting, computer connections, web-sites, fabrics, books & magazines, problem-shooting. the address is pfaffies@listserv.embroideryclubs.com. There is also a list called COMPUSEW or \"The Pfabulous Pfaff Pfan Club; an Internet Interactive Guild.\" and embroidery@listserv.embroideryclubs.com, a list of computerized emb. machine users."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "Great idea, Katy. In fact, Terry, with the capability to link to mailing lists, you should approach some of them, especially those who talk about graphics and the web. I wonder if the Spiderwoman list ever got back together. I can check that one out."}, {"response": 20, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (13:32)", "body": "Possible sponsors to cheerleading conference: The uniform companies, the magazine (Am. cheerleader), the camps offered by UCA (Universal C Association) and NCA (National C. A.). Possible sponsors for sewing conference: the machine companies, national fabric chains, support software companies, magazines. the computer literacy of the sewing group especially will amaze you."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:22)", "body": "] the computer literacy of the sewing group especially will amaze you. __ But why? There are sew many parallels."}, {"response": 22, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "One of the lucky seamstresses with a brand new $4500 machine told us her husband was beginning to crumble because she was more interested in talking about her machine with her Internet friends than actually using it."}, {"response": 23, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:31)", "body": "\".. sew many parallels ..\" One of the lucky seamstresses with a brand new $4500 machine told us her husband was beginning to grumble because she was more interested in talking about her machine with her Internet friends than actually using it."}, {"response": 24, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "\".. sew many parallels ..\" ;-) One of the lucky seamstresses with a brand new $4500 machine told us her husband was beginning to grumble because she was more interested in talking about her machine with her Internet friends than actually using it."}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:55)", "body": "Do we have any volunteers for host(ess) of the new sewing or other conferences? I'd like to have this lined up before I start the conference. And, though I sewed my pockets last night, if you saw the job I did you would laugh."}, {"response": 26, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "Terry - I cannot volunteer for the sewing list at this time - but I can probably find you a very active, energetic volunteer from the list. I will talk to my daughter and her coach to see if there is a possiblilty of someone here doing this part for you. give me a day or two. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 28, "subject": "BBC productions of Austen's work", "response_count": 21, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (04:02)", "body": "Mich, I recently acquired the BBC productions also and would love to discuss them. I've seen Emma (liked very much) S&S (ok) and P&P (didn't like at all) Would you like to talk about any that we have both seen, or shall we both start fresh with Persuasion (although someone here told me it was awful!) I await further instructions! ;-)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (09:29)", "body": "Mich, nice to hear from you. Hope you had a great holiday. Yes, I would love more tapes in the mail. Just say when I should expect them. Should find out from Cheryl which one to send first. This is so much fun. Thanks."}, {"response": 3, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (11:35)", "body": "Mich, I've seen all of these adaptations except S&S. I must say that Persuasion was the one I liked the least (and, Cheryl, Emma the best). I caution you against high expectations when you begin your viewing, and would be very interested in hearing your responses after you've seen it."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (11:58)", "body": "I managed to videotape Northanger Abbey from A&E very early one mornig about three months ago. This is the production that Sue Birtwhistle describes as \"quirky\" in her introduction to \"The Making of P&P\". I enjoy watching it, but must warn you that it IS a bit bizarre, and only really makes sense if you know the book quite well. I really like Robert Hardy as General Tilney, andGoogie Withers as Mrs Allen. Peter Firth does a good job with Henry T. too. If you can stand a less-than -perfect recording, I'll lend it out. E-mail me, O.K.?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "michy", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "Ladies, I would love to discuss them, how fun! Lets start with Pursuasion, maybe we can include both in the virtual viewing we are planning. Noone seem to have liked the BBCs version but maybe it will offer some good conversation topics. Cheryl since you are our designated organizer I'll follow your lead. I won't receive my tapes until this coming week so I won't be able to start until then. Donna, I'll make sure you have tapes before the various viewings. Caroline thanks for your kind offer but I've already done the damage and purchased the tapes. I hope you'll join us in our viewings. Let the fun begin Mich"}, {"response": 6, "author": "eljo", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (15:00)", "body": "Great idea! I would love to join your discussion about the BBC adptions since I spent a great part of christmas and new years watching them all (finished the last one, Persuasion, yesterday). Like Myretta I have to causion you against high expectations since some of the adaptions are from the early 70's and of bad quality. I too liked Emma the most and Persuasion the least (migt have something to do with the bad quality of the tape and Anne's awful clothes and hair). I look forward to a discussion and await futher instructions."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (16:16)", "body": "Ok ladies, let's go to it! We're doing a virtual view of the Amanda Root Persuasion on Jan. 19. Why don't we start with the old BBC Persuasion the following week on Jan. 26. I've got other Virtual Views planned every other week or so, why don't we squeeze the BBC's in between the others? And then shall we do Emma next after Persuasion, since from all accounts, we will need to see a good one after Pesuasion! ;-) What say you?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (16:59)", "body": ""}, {"response": 9, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (16:59)", "body": "Count me in."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:29)", "body": "Cound me in also. This might just force me to go and buy these tapes. I resisted, since I'd heard they're not up to the same standard as the later productions. Will try to rent them, first, but don't think I can."}, {"response": 11, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (21:08)", "body": "My goodness! What perfect timing indeed. I just finished the book two days ago, now definately ready to view and review. I'm in!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "mich", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (13:23)", "body": "sounds great. Will we be posting these on the Calander?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (14:47)", "body": "Yeah, I guess Cheryl will still coordinate and then it all goes on the calendar"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "Mich, I'll put the BBC schedule on the calendar."}, {"response": 15, "author": "claudine", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (01:12)", "body": "Hello all! I'm quite new at the Jane Austen Spring, but wanted to chime in and ask about the \"Virtual View.\" Loved Amanda Root and Ciarran Hinds in the '95 Persuasion and would love to discuss it with all of you! Are any of the other BBC adaptations any good? I keep seeing them in Blockbuster and can't seem to make up my mind ... of course, I need to do a serious re-read of all my Austen. (Began late Nov., after seeing P&P2, with P&P, then Persuasion; now need to re-read the rest: Emma, NA, MP...) Cheers, Claudine"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (01:19)", "body": "Claudine, the general consensus is that \"Emma\" is the best of the old BBC adaptations. We would love to have you take part in the Virtual View discussions. Click on the Calendar link on the title page of Spring to see the schedule. There are several of us over in our chat room right now, if you'd care to join us. The link is also on the front page titled \"Pemberley Drawing Room\" When you get to the site, you need to choose the Pemberley Drawing Room on the last line of the sign in. Come join us, would love to meet you! :-)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (01:26)", "body": "Claudine, the general consensus is that \"Emma\" is the best of the old BBC adaptations. We would love to have you take part in the Virtual View discussions. Click on the Calendar link on the title page of Spring to see the schedule. There are several of us over in our chat room right now, if you'd care to join us. The link is also on the front page titled \"Pemberley Drawing Room\" When you get to the site, you need to choose the Pemberley Drawing Room on the last line of the sign in. Come join us, would love to meet you! :-)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (01:27)", "body": "this is the second time tonight this has posted my message twice! What gives?! :-("}, {"response": 19, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (10:59)", "body": "Claudine,I enjoyed the BBC productions of Austen's work very much. They are not equal to the recent adaptation but if you enjoy Austen's work I think you'll appreciate them. Many include portions of each story the more recent adaptations left out. I would caution you against BBC's NH Abbey, I thought it AWFUL. In my humble opinion it was not Jane Austen like at all. I look forward to talking more about these with you during our virtual viewing. Mich"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (02:05)", "body": "VirtView Notice: BBC Persuasion Discussion on the old BBC version of Persuasion will begin next Sunday, Jan. 26, so be sure to watch the video this week sometime. Should make for some interesting discussions and comparisons with the Amanda Root version we just watched."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (16:31)", "body": "VertView Notice: BBC Emma Discussion of the old BBC version of Emma will begin on Sunday, Feb.9, so watch the video sometime this week. The following week the new Emma will be shown on A&E, so this may make for a good preview. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 3, "subject": "A thread for Darcy/Firth drooling and PG innuendo", "response_count": 392, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (02:49)", "body": "Ooh baby, now you're talking, this is the room for me! But I half expected Candace to have been here already and breathing heavily over the frequently wet Darcy/Firth! Oh well. Someone has to go first. My latest confession: Most of you know I was successful in applying my Darcy Look wallpaper. Love it. Also managed to download the \"In vain have I struggled\" speech from the FoF site. Love it. I have put this on my computer so that when Windows engag es, I hear Darcy professing his love for me. I must say that I knew it all along."}, {"response": 2, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (08:01)", "body": "But \"his hair, Cheryl, his hair! And his boots had at least 6 inches of mud on them! What can he have been thinking of walking, er swimming, in that way? I think it shows a certain boldness, a certain willfulness, not entirely proper.\" Caroline Bingley reached for Mr. Hurst's private reserve sherry, only managing to stop herself a the last moment, as Mr. Darcy reentered the room wearing his brocade robe and a superior smile. \"I have decided,\" he intoned forecefully, \"that in my own house I can wear and do what I d--n well please. Billiards, anyone?\" Caroline slithered to the floor in a faint, not so much at the pronouncement as at the physique sheathed in silk. (This segment has been brought to you by Royal Ties, Purveyors of Accessories for Fine Gentlemen, and by EII (Exciting, Isn't It) TV.) Cheryl- Couldn't resist creating a new moment in P&P2 for you & others. As to your earlier claim that he is professing his love to you, bravo!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Cleo", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (10:55)", "body": ""}, {"response": 4, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (11:28)", "body": "Yo! Cheryl he is a \"Hunk a Hunk of Burin Love\". It is definitly the way he \"looks\" \"sarnades\" and \"professes his \"love\" ME."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (13:55)", "body": "Thank you Cecily, that was most kind of you. If you will excuse me, I believe that I have an appointment in the Billiard Room."}, {"response": 6, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (16:15)", "body": "Bravo Ladies, Bravo! Mich"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (17:35)", "body": "So, Donna and Candace and Cheryl, did we ever decide how to properly address Mr. L-B?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (17:39)", "body": "Kali, only a Mrs. Elton type would refer to him as Mr. L-B. We show proper respect at all times and use the full Mr. Love-Butt in public. When in the privacy of the Drawing Room, I believe I shall call him Hunk-a. or perhaps, My Dearest, Lovliest Hunk- a. Yes, that sounds quite nice indeed."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (17:41)", "body": "Amy, I predict that this topic board shall soon be the busiest of the lot. I say this knowing full well that it does not sho us in a creditable light, but the fact still remains..."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (18:02)", "body": "Oohh - I love this thread. All your images are purrfect. Cheryl - I've also downloaded the In Vain sound, but how do you get it to come on when you open windows? That would be fantastic - unless my husband turns on my computer - he might get quite a sh ock!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (20:59)", "body": "this mildly off topic - I just found some potential new drooling material, and am debating with myself the pros and cons of buying a book the main advantage of which is one picure... Have you seen the new BBC books hardback version of P&P? It has some lavish photos of the P&P2 cast - mostly posed publicity photos, but with a few stills, some but not all are in \"The Making of Pride and Prejudice\". There is one lovely photo of Darcy a nd Georgiana that I haven't seen before, with Firth at his most decorative. I already have 2 copies of P&P, so I didn't buy it, but I was sorely tempted. Anna"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (06:56)", "body": "Sorry, Cheryl...I just couldn't bring myself to write out \"Love-Butt\"! - K"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (07:06)", "body": "Kali, dear, are you up late or early? Myself, I have no excuse. I have been polyphasicking. No, HC, don't get excited about my use of a word with a poly- prefix."}, {"response": 14, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (14:45)", "body": "\"We are such stuff as dreams are made of\"- HAMLET A Personal Dream Sequence from 11/18/96 Note: This is retold for fellow-P&P2/CF fans enjoyment; identification with the I-speaker is encouraged, if desired, for further amusement. Last night I dreamt I went to Europe. The journey was full of more twists and turns than the real tour I took in college years: the landscape was overgrown with wild creepers; inns had a spectral look to them, despite the tourist crowds; and everythin g was seen in dim moonlight hues, since the dream indeed was one long strange night journey. Only with the entrance of a shadowy person who curiously resembled the owner of Pemberley did the mood lighten... I found myself in the middle of a trainride through the Black Forest, feeling out of sorts due to travel fatigue and loneliness, when a man entered the car from the back and took a seat across the aisle facing me (seating on this train was in foursomes , facing each other, on either side of the aisle). I thought him oddly dressed until I realized I myself was in Austen-era cape and dress. He reminded me of someone, though at the time I could not recall whom. But this face was that of a gypsy, and his clothes and manner freer than those of the other travellers. A maroon cape, white shirt, black pants in black boots, pistol thrust in belt, and gold earring under the black curls, along with a pair of fine dark eyes, focused many a woman's attention on h im, I was sure. I struggled to keep my own eyes on the evergreen scenery out the window, as a matter of principle. An hour later, a number of us got off at a small village and headed for the one inn. A genial chubby host, Herr Herzen (!) provided a simple but tasty meal of peasant bread, cheese, and pilsner beer for us all at one long table. The gypsy taciturnly ate amid the chatter of two frumpy women nearby, then stalked to the fireplace. The stuffy atmosphere of the room soon drew me from the table to walk outside until our rooms were ready. I was stargazing under some pines when I heard a step behind me; tr ing to appear calm, I halfturned towards the inevitable maroon cloak. \"Good evening. You are, I believe, unaware of the fact that there have been robbers near here lately, and that it is unwise to be out alone.\" I admitted my ignorance but was grateful for his information, though I privately doubted its being the only purpose for his approach. Indeed, his eyes kept scanning the woods nearby, then coming back to me. Not thinking it suitable to remain there with a man I'd not been introduced to, I decid d to return when a thunderous sound of hoofbeats came toward the inn. \"Quickly, come with me!\" the gypsy muttered as he dragged me by the hand deeper under the pines shelter. A troupe of ruffians arrived, leapt from their horses, and stormed into the doorway, shouting and shooting. Panicked, I couldn't move, but my new friend did: he ran up to two of the horses, pulled them mightily by the reins back to the pines, and hel ped me mount up before whirling deeper into the forest ahead of me. Afraid of what was happening back at the inn, I found myself unable to question the idea of traipsing after this fellow into I knew not what. Besides, a little adventure seemed enticing And where had I seen someone like him before?? Some minutes later, he slowed his horse to a walk, and mine mercifully followed suit. \"I believe we can talk quietly here as we go,\" he murmured as his eyes swept my bedraggled appearance and shaking hands clutching the reins. I admitted to being exhausted and unnerved by the incident and asked our destination. He told me of his gypsy camp at a spring not many miles hence. Of course, I thought, his gypsy camp; he's a real gypsy baron out of legend! I felt my cynical hu mor rise, and then I felt the worst was over if humor was returning. In fact, I had an inexplicable urge to verbally trounce this man, despite his just having saved my life. \"I wonder at your knowing the robbers would be returning to raid tonight,\" I said lightly, probing the man of mystery with what I hoped was subtlety. It wasn't. \"Are you concerned for your safety with me?\" he mocked, brows arching quizzically. When I squirmed he went on more kindly, \"Have you never heard of a gypsy's 'second sight' ability to foretell the future?\" \"I'd supposed to be mere fiction,\" I retorted, puzzled by other images starting to flash in my mind's eye of my 20th century job and hom and a film character called Darcy... \"And have you never found someone in a dream of a deja-vue nature?\" he continued, leaning over and resting his hand for a moment on my horse's bridle. Shocked into silence, I stared in the trees ahead at a nearing cam pfire. Was the man a mindreader after all? And what odd fancies and pictures were dancing in my head? It was a relief when we arrived at the gypsy camp. My companion was greeted like royalty by his people, and the little old lady whose wagon I was to rest in assured me of his kindliness (r"}, {"response": 15, "author": "mich", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (16:12)", "body": "Happy thoughts indeed.... thank you"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (19:13)", "body": "I can tell that this has been a very strange week indeed... Amy...to be perfectly honest...I don't know...this week has totally thrown off my sleeping cycle...I don't know if life will ever be the same again! ;-) - K"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (19:17)", "body": "I can tell that this has been a very strange week indeed... Amy...to be perfectly honest...I don't know...this week has totally thrown off my sleeping cycle...I don't know if life will ever be the same again! ;-) - K PS...Maybe we should lay out some ground rules for the chat room, lest it degenerate into a debauched cyberorgy...! ;}"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (22:34)", "body": "Aye, Kali. The drawing room is dangerous."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (23:04)", "body": "Kali, re Mr. L-B. I keep on imagining Lizzie having to interupt him and saying 'but Love...' and then getting all mixed up. A liability!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (23:44)", "body": "Re L-B; are you ladies using your imagination, or do you have a source I've not yet found. Except for a moment of indecision re colour of coat, the B is hidden. Thighs now there's evidencebut L-B? If you have evidence I *want* to see it. Please! Prett y pretty please!!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (00:09)", "body": "Anna, dear, how to explain the Hunk-a Hunk-a Burning Love-Butt nickname? Candace, Kali, Donna, help me out here! It began innocently enough with speculation as to what Lizzy would call her beloved after marriage; Darcy, Fitzwilliam, etc. Late at night I and the above mentioned ladies (who are usually of sober and reliable character!) got very silly and the end result is as you see above. Evidence as to its basis in reality is trifling at best, but the evidence of there being three, or even four, very illy girls on the BB is beyond question."}, {"response": 22, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (00:53)", "body": "Kali and Amy (re notes 17 & 18): Yes the Drawing room is dangerous and yes, my sleep cycle is totally disrupted. but please do not make rules. rules can ruin things faster than bedlam ever could. Austen-l used to be this great mix of fun and scholarship - then someone decided to moderate, others decided to complain, still others decided to push the edges of the env elop. All the fun and frivolity is gone now - (probably moved to PPBB) - please don't make rules. I love this group - I love the banter no matter how far off target it seems to get."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (02:15)", "body": "I agree, Katy...I was half-joking when I said that...but, well, you understand what I mean! As for Mr. Love-Butt, yeah...DOnna brought up the song Sugarpie Honeybunch , Candace stated that she first thought the song lyrics were \"sugarpie-honeyBUTT,\" and so I aksed whether the man was to be called \"Mr. Butt\" or \"Mr. Love.\" Cheryl sta ted that Mr. Love-Butt, hyphenated, was most proper...so whoop! There it is... - K"}, {"response": 24, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (09:22)", "body": "In light of the fact that Colin \"Shows-it-all\" Firth is appearing in December on TV in HOSTAGES and VALMONT (see thread 23 for dates, times, etc.), I suggest getting a headstart on his other \"look\" (less refined than Darcy but sensual) by checking out h ttp://www.iupui.edu/~rogersc/images/ when there, scroll down to images called prvalm1.jpg and VALMONT8.JPG I think we're in for more sleepless nights!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (09:46)", "body": "Kali: Oh, it was a joke? golly, no one ever kids around on Austen-l any more. I had forgotten about jokes."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (11:07)", "body": "Katy, I love your images...thank you so much again for the kitten! Seriously, though...don't we get just a teense out of control? Or is that what makes it fun? Clueless, K"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (11:09)", "body": "Kali asked if anyone knew of any 18th century nicknames Which struck me so funny Oh! Yeah, right you remember back in the 18th century \"Duh\" Cheryl Candace. Someone said I'll have to do some \"Chaneling\". It started from there \" Hunk a Hunk a Burin Love\" to \"Mr. Love B... \"I tell you though he is a Sugarpie Honeybunch in DEC A&E issue{ subsrcibtion or Barnes and Nobles}. Oh baby...... Cecily are these new pics. Oh Anna dear, you can't tell us about this BBC book without giving us more info w need more info. Like where did you get it ISBN number ect.can it be order. Just thought I should mention that."}, {"response": 28, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (13:10)", "body": "Kali - the little-bit-out-of-control, or that fact that no one has to worry about being a little-bit-out-of-control is a lot of what makes it fun. Glad you liked the cat. My two cents, Katy"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (19:24)", "body": "Kali - the little-bit-out-of-control, or that fact that no one has to worry about being a little-bit-out-of-control is a lot of what makes it fun. _______________ Katy, I think you nailed it. It is a) so freeing not to have to be ashamed of our obsession, and b) the joy of \"being\" with people with whom we have so much in common. Cheryl and I are continually finding things we both love and many others find it so as well. When this all settles down, I want to do a survey of our other interests. I think the results would be fascinating. But first, to put up the content ffrom the old board, get some back burner projects jump started again with all the new voluneer help, &etc . Amy"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (19:43)", "body": "Amy, it is kind of scary how many things we are finding in common, I'm beginning to think we were seperated at birth!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (20:44)", "body": "My mother read JA out loud to me when I was a baby. That was so she would enjoy our reading-out-loud time."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (21:58)", "body": "Donna - I'll check out the ISBN no. and post later Cheryl - it may be as well we were seperated at birth. We seem to get a impressive mass effect merely on virtual pheromones. Imagine the consquences if it were for real! Anna"}, {"response": 33, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (02:21)", "body": "ROTFLOL -- I just found this -- I can't believe that you have been talking this topic without me!!!! Hunk-a Hunk-a, indeed!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (03:01)", "body": "Candace, we did as best we could without you, but now that you have found us, I am sure the tone of this topic shall rise, or perhaps, sink further. Either way, we shall be the better for it!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "candace", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (00:07)", "body": "Oh Cheryl, you have given me such a bad reputation!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (02:38)", "body": "I? I have done nothing of the sort! I always speak the absolute truth!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (02:03)", "body": "Ow! My head! This is all just too deep for me, ladies...forgive me while I cower in fear over in the corner for a bit, because this thread has me on the floor, begging for intellectual mercy! ;) - K"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (17:35)", "body": "Hey, Kali! I thought I was the resident smarta** here!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (17:39)", "body": "I am receiving the usual punishment for expressing my opinion frankly about a living creature: Almost as soon as I said the fun and frivolity had evaporated on Austen-l, it resurfaced. I have laughed my way through the posts for three days in a row. Ho w nice to be shown to be so wrong!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (18:40)", "body": "Cheryl, you are indeed the undisputed queen and reigning champion of smartassity...I am merely your brownnosing lackey-trainee...;) - K"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (03:26)", "body": "And don't you forget it, baby! ;-)"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (06:57)", "body": "Amy you are right. The FOF site is changing all the time. Just came from the pictures. To steal from Persuasion, \"you pierce my soul\" I CAN'T STAND IT! I want him. How can I get my mind off of him to do this Thanksgiving thing?It alos does not help that he is such an excellent rider. I have been on a horse since birth. I want to ride with him!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (09:30)", "body": "My dear Miss Leslie, We ALL want to ride with him. When he has spare time between films, perhaps we could encourage his setting up Darcy's Equestrian School For Ladies in British Columbia: I am convinced there are many of us who would pay handsomely to have him as our in structor (even those who already know how to ride), just to have him stand next to us, guiding our hands, helping us dismount into his arms, riding into the sunset, ...(fill in other private tutoring moments). Sincerely yours, Caroline I-saw-him-first Bingley (private secretary Cecily copied this, since due to the excitable state of Caroline, nobody but myself could have deciphered her appalling cursive)"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (14:12)", "body": "Just came back from seeing CF as a blond in Nostromo at the FoF site. I had never pictured him as a blond, could not imagine it, and now that I have seen it, all I can say is: Ooh baby, ooh baby!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "fen", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (15:59)", "body": "Can any of you ladies tell me -in a rational linear way for my feeble mind- what exactly you like so much about CF/Darcy? Besides the great physical traits you swoon over above, I mean, what else? Very interested to know what makes this actor (like othe rs) so popular?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (16:01)", "body": "Re the riding thread and the blonder thread - I've long thought he should play the role of Tom Booker in the \"Horse Whisperer\", but unfortunately Robert Redford bought the rights to the book and has appropriated the role for himself. The thought of CF as Tom Booker would lead anyone who's read the book into another drooling frenzy."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (16:22)", "body": "Can any of you ladies tell me -in a rational linear way for my feeble mind- what exactly you like so much about CF/Darcy? The heart has it's reasons that reason knows nothing of Besides the great physical traits you swoon over above, I mean, what else? Isn't that enough ? The smouldering certainly helps!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (17:10)", "body": "Donna - re the BBC hardback version of \"Pride and Prejudice\". The ISBN is 0 563 37190 0 the address given on the dust jacket is BBC Books BBC Worldwide Ltd Woodlands 80 Wood Lane London W12 OTT That said, I hope I haven't given you a false impression of this book. It is of good quality, but it's only 2 photos that make it at all remarkable; the one I mentioned of Darcy and Georgiana (excellent - if there was a poster of it I'd have bought 2 la st week) and a still of Darcy and Lizzy leaving the church after their wedding which is better than any other I've seen. The price in Oz is AU$20 (about U$17), in the UK 10 pounds."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Saman", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (17:11)", "body": "Having not seen CF in anything other that P&P, I think I admire his intellectual approach to his job. Reading his comments about Darcy from various sources showed that he put a huge amount of effort in to \"getting into the character\". I think it's refreshing to see someone who could attract many roles simply because of his looks actually thinking about his acting. I like many actors simply for their physical features but Firth adds so much more to that admiration because of his approach. Saman"}, {"response": 50, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (17:22)", "body": "] Jake: ] Can any of you ladies tell me -in a rational linear way for my feeble mind- what exactly you like so much about CF/Darcy? Besides the great physical traits you swoon over above, I mean, what else? Very interested to know what makes this actor (like othe rs) so popular? Jake, a few weeks ago there was extensive discussion about this, and a significant number indicated that it is not CF himself to whom they are attracted, but to Mr. Darcy as portrayed by CF. So it is the package of the character of Mr Darcy as created by JA combined with CF's most excellent interpretation of this character that is so appealing. Joan, too"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (17:24)", "body": "Thanks Anna, I will look into. I hope I will be able to purchase it in the U.S."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (17:32)", "body": "] rational linear way for my feeble mind _____________ Precisely the trouble with most guys. Jake, we like to tease our male friends. You see, in this way only the strong will stick around. Tell us about you in intro. Amy"}, {"response": 53, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (20:30)", "body": "The changing face of Colin Firth: pick darcy/Firth's most handsome look. Today, I am voting for his look as he ponders E.'s rejection and pens the famous letter. wow. For a single Firth moment, I vote today for his first visit to the Collins home. He sits there wanting to be part of the conversation with E and the colonel, finally talks over to her, and all he can think of to say is \"Are you paretns well\" - or somethi ng like that. He looks so determined and then so crushed. both the screen writers and Mr. Firth get lots of credit for making so much of the little dab of material JA gave them in that scene!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (20:35)", "body": "I will try that again with fewer typos! The changing face of Colin Firth: Pick Darcy/Firth's most handsome look. Today, I would vote for his appearance as he ponders E.'s rejection and pens the famous letter. WOW. For a single Firth moment, I vote today for his first visit to the Collins home. He sits there wanting to be part of the conversation with E and the colonel, finally walks over to her, and all he can think of to say is \"Are you parents well\" - or somethin g like that. He looks so determined and then so crushed. Both the screen writers and Mr. Firth get lots of credit for making so much of the little dab of material JA gave them in that scene!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (03:06)", "body": "Sheesh...you'd think Thanksgiving would have calmed the waters. ;-)"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (09:10)", "body": "Alas Kali, the water may be calm, but there is an old Swedish proverb about what can hide beneath the surface of very calm water... I for one have enjoyed this thread from the love-butt to the look and to let my mind sink in the waters of Darcy-obsession or have it poured over me like the man himself in his bath. Renewed proof of the strong impact the Darcy character has on you was gained as I watched P&P1 the other day. As stiff as Rintoul/Darcy is there are moments and looks that hit you in the belly. But why could they not get him a hat of a proper size? Sometimes he looks almost as ridiculous as Mr Collins in his Water-planting one."}, {"response": 57, "author": "fen", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (09:49)", "body": "Saman and Joan, too--- Having not seen CF in anything other that P&P, I think I admire his intellectual approach to his job. Reading his comments about Darcy from various sources showed that he put a huge amount of effort in to \"getting into the character\". I think it's refreshing to see someone who could attract many roles simply because of his looks actually thinking about his acting. I like many actors simply for their physical features but Firth adds so much more to that admiration because of his approach. and So it is the package of the character of Mr Darcy as created by JA combined with CF's most excellent interpretation of this character that is so appealing. Thank you both for your discerning comments and Austen-worthy style. Amy--- The teasing, so much in evidence, is I believe the established mode and propensity of intelligent ladies when interacting with likeminded gentlemen. The delights of \"oneupsmanship\" (British term), however, can range from mere horseplay in some hands to m ore robust mental duelling in others. The goal os such gambits, too, can vary from a simple humorous putdown to a sexist generalization to a growing liking for the other person. In the latter category we find those beloved Elizabeth and Darcy characters Your own remark above indicates a similar bent; \"why\" must all gentlemen who post here be strong? En garde, Miss Amy!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (10:13)", "body": "] Your own remark above indicates a similar bent; \"why\" must all gentlemen who post here be strong? En garde, Miss Amy! ____ Jake, I am not given to being extra clever this morning, so you may take down your own guard (For now.) I quite agree with your characterisation of our kind of teasing, and all its various degrees and aims. Not all gentlemen who post here must be strong. Some have come and gone after a week or two. Those who persist and do not seen to mind being outnumbered win our affection. Maybe that is what I mean by strong. Amy P.S. The term \"oneupsmanship\" is regularly used in the States. I don't know when or where it started. But I am sure we think of it as quite our own. (No, I am really not trying to start a new battle. We care little for the history of Imperialism here.)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (10:37)", "body": "I agree with Katy's choice of CF look in the letter to Lizzie scene. WOW is a good word; so's Cheryl's OOOHH BABY! Having just seen Part 4 on Wed. again, I admit to losing my \"habitual reserve\" (yeah, sure) when I saw him lean back in his chair, (exhaust ed, neck exposed vulnerably, sighing)- well, I wished I could go through the TV barrier right then! Like Kim and others said \"whew, is it getting hot in here?!\" Yes, I know it's Darcy, but does that CF have sex appeal or what?!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (20:37)", "body": "My dear Miss Cicely, I am in all agreement on Mr. Darcy opening up a riding academy.I would prefer to have the academy in Charleston, SC. I do feel the society of Charleston, SC would be very obliging. We are, after all, listed as a source in the book Jane Austen's Town and C ountry Style. Perhaps Mr. Darcy would like to open up an academy in both places. What say you on the subject?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (21:19)", "body": "My dear Miss Anne (Leslie), How charming a suggestion! I take it upon myself to answer for Miss Caroline Bingley, who went to bed with a raging headache after I presumed to say she would have to share the exquisite pleasure of Mr. Darcy as riding instructor with other gentlewomen. Are there suitable ponds for swimming lessons there as well? British Columbia also has fair rock hiking sites, as in Derbyshire. Perhaps we should consider renaming these two places as Darcy's Northern Exposure Camp and Darcy's Southern Comfort Resort. Ladies could thus sign up for two completely unique weeklong experiences with the man of their dreams. What say you? Always practical, Miss Cecily"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (22:29)", "body": "Re the exact appeal of Firth/Darcy...... I think that Andrew Davies (writer) and Simon Langton (Producer) have an awful lot to answer for here. But one thing that appeals particularly to me is the ambiguousness of CF's face at times(Really pretty profile, sometimes blank full-face,amazing eyes and mouth,cheeks sometimes a bit too chubby for perfection.)In the letter-writing bit,he leans back on his chair and does a real good impersonation of Tom-the -voice Jones. And inthe Pond sequence, there is a close-up of him removing his cravat that shows a sunburn line. For me, that one shot makes Darcy so human, so believable, and so lovable.And I have to admit, that the Pemberley LOOK, with its combination of love, admiration,almost-tearful adoration directed straight out of the screen at ME makes my toes curl!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (01:24)", "body": "Ooh baby, ooh baby...(sorry, had to do it, you were all expecting it anyway weren't you?)"}, {"response": 64, "author": "fen", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (10:11)", "body": "for those in need of a daily jolt try http://www.iupui.edu/~rogersc/images/firthtst.jpg CONTROL + Drag across just the top of photo, then let go to see nice zoom Ah, Amy! Never one to pick a quarrel, unless it is exceptionally promising of strategic merriment, I bow Darcylike to your better judgment in this matter of verbal fencing. But, as to oneupsmanship, you must allow me to tell you how passionately and com edically Englishman Stephen Potter (1950s, Holt, Rinehart and Winston publisher) took up and epitomized the phrase, in such PUNCH magazine articles and books titled LIFEMANSHIP, GAMESMANSHIP, etcetera. Terribly English and terribly amusing sketches that ay make one not only snort coffee through one's nose (yes, I've lurked awhile) but WOM (as a kinswoman of mine embarrassedly calls it, wet oneself momentarily, in laughter). The books are probably still available on dusty university library shelves or th ose of larger Towns. I may start a new topic here at some point with excerpts, so we can all become as facile as Mr. Bennet or Ms. Austen with cynical wit."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (14:59)", "body": "My dear Miss Cicely, We have lovely ponds for swimming here. I only want him to swim if he has his clothes on. We can also add a new dimension to his sexuality in this part of SC. There are wonderful beaches here. Just imagine Darcy coming out of the surf in all his Darcy sul king. Shirt, wet with salt water. OH GOD!!! I hope this wonderful thought clears Miss Bingley's head. Please convey my wishes that she she has a speedy recovery. Please tell her that Charleston is the best and most elegant of society. Yours, Miss Leslie"}, {"response": 66, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (16:05)", "body": "Dear Misses Leslie and Cecily, OOPS! My fevered mind just did a Freudian that is shocking but comic. You wrote We can also add a new dimension to his sexuality.. Just imagine Darcy coming out of the surf in all his Darcy sulking . I misread as coming out of the surf with al l his Darcy showing #-} But perhaps we might add Life Drawing to your Darcy's Northern Exposure camp activities? Anything for Art, France, Curator for Museum of Regency Sculpture"}, {"response": 67, "author": "fen", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (17:16)", "body": "ftp://ftp.ct.ebt.com/pub/figleaf/finl10b3.exe An earlier posting here gave my \"jolt\" photo site recommendation, but I forgot to mention you need to download the Figleaf plug-in (see above) first to be able to zoom, in Netscape. Another earlier oversight: Anna(?), I agree about the \"heart has its reasons\" and the smouldering ability of CF."}, {"response": 68, "author": "fen", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (17:39)", "body": "Play it again, Sam. For zoom. Go to http://www.shareware.com then type figleaf in QuickSearch; then choose MS-Windows(all) as platform; then hit Search; then click on finl1061.zip; then try a site like Hong Kong to get/save figleaf (30-day use) Adios. I quit."}, {"response": 69, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (20:59)", "body": "No figleaves for Mac people?"}, {"response": 70, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (23:22)", "body": "You could probably configure your browser so that it can automatically send images to your favorite graphics program. For ex. in Netscape, under Options, General Preferences, at the Helpers tab you can set up your graphics program. Probably your browser for the Mac has its own equivalent to all this, since apparently Figleaf may not have a Mac version."}, {"response": 71, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (23:37)", "body": "Actually, it is already configured to send graphics to various applications. I assumed (incorrectly?) that Figleaf must do something more than that."}, {"response": 72, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (23:54)", "body": "I too use Figleaf (on Windows 95) and I like it because it is a more integral seamless process plugged into Netscape (and for me at least works quicker with a few deft strokes to get the exact zoom segment desired)."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (02:02)", "body": "Oh dear...this is all too much for me...yet again, I must say that this is all making me go quite distracted! - K PS - Cheryl...Candace...Donna...where has Mr. L-B (sorry for the Eltonism) gone? is he still here? I'm lost..."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (02:31)", "body": "I presume Mr. Hunk-a Hunk-a Love-Butt is still here under this topic somewhere, but Kali, you know that even if he has been removed from this thread, he will forever live within our hearts and memories and dreams."}, {"response": 75, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (02:45)", "body": "Come on Ladies -- time to roll up your sleves and do your part on this topic. Cheryl, Kali, and I can't carry the ball ourselves!"}, {"response": 76, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (09:04)", "body": "(chuckling)you're right, judging by what you're doing in one of the new P&P2 scenes on topic 40something, carrying on with Darcy upstairs! That is becoming another Darcy amour topic area, if you'd care to join its creative heat. But to re-spin this thread: if you could have any shot from P&P2, other than the wellknown look at Pemb-piano (say it fast & italian) scene, for your computer wallpaper, what'd be? my preliminary vote=from the Darcycam dance: lots of good ones there, if you like him in sulky stalking mode, just starting to smoulder (for ME, of course)"}, {"response": 77, "author": "PatK", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (09:30)", "body": "Cecily - Any look other than the look ???? That is a hard one (no pun intended) -- I love the 'wet' look from the meeting at Pemberly; the dance scenes, the \"I shall conquer this\" scene and the piano scene at Rosings. Well, pretty much any scene in the show - I wouldn't be picky."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (10:06)", "body": "Oh very tricky, Cecily! Brava! I am excessively fond of the very intense look Darcy favors Lizzy with during the first proposal. The one where he is sitting down, ever so briefly, before standing and resuming his pacing. His legs are crossed, he is le aning to his right, his eyes are piercing her...of yes, excessively fond!"}, {"response": 79, "author": "fen", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (12:42)", "body": "Yikes, Cheryl, I can sense your own intensity heating up the BB here! (more virtual phero-nomenon?) I suspect it's time to go to the morality topic where Eric safely and sanely visits..."}, {"response": 80, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (13:15)", "body": "Who wants to be sane Jake. Do we know how you feel about \"Lizzie\" He will always be a Hunk-a-Hunk of burning Love and Desire. Mr. Lovey Buns is always on my mind just wants to suckface with him {especially after watching the first proposal} every minute o f the day. Will that do, It will never do for I have struggled in vane not to be sane."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (13:39)", "body": "'I too use Figleaf (on Windows 95) and I like it because it is a more integral seamless process plugged into Netscape (and for me at least works quicker with a few deft strokes to get the exact zoom segment desired).'- F One of the enjoyable aspects of being mostly computor illiterate is that words retain some of their commonuse meanings, and so conjure up all sorts of strange immages. Can you, for example , imagine Darcy saying the above, as a recommendation?"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (14:53)", "body": "Mr. Darcy should of sang this song to \"Lizzie\" \"Handle With Care\" written by George Harrison and song w/Traveling Wilbury's Been beaten up and battered around,been sent-up and shut down You are the best thing I've ever found Handle me with Care Reputation Changeable, Situation Tolerable,Oh Baby you adorable Handle me with Care Chorus: Iam so tired of being lonely I still have some love to give won't you show me that you really care. Everybody got somebody to lean on,put your body next to mine and dreammmm onnnnn I've been fobbed-up and been the fool,I've been robbed and ridiculed,In Day care Centers and Night Schools,Handle me with Care,I've been stuck in a port and terrorized, sent to meeting Hypnotized,Over-exposed and Commercialized, \"Handle me with Care\". Repeat Chorus: I've been Uptight and made a Mess but I cleaned-up myself I guess Ohhh the sweet smell of success. \"Handle me with Care\""}, {"response": 83, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (19:04)", "body": "Dear Miss Hilary: I never use a Figleaf for any occasion. It denotes a man of the lowest order, certainly not a wellbred one. Yet a man of sensitivity, culture, and pride in his real superiority does consider the nature of the moment and the needs of a partner, and to tha t end I could recommend an \"integral seamless process plugged into Netscape [which] for me at least works quicker with a few deft strokes to get the exact zoom segment desired.\" Chivalrously yours, Fitzwilliam Darcy One of the enjoyable aspects of being mostly computor illiterate is that words retain some of their commonuse meanings, and so conjure up all sorts of strange immages. Can you, for example , imagine Darcy saying the above, as a recommendation?"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (20:51)", "body": "Hilary!!!! I am torn between saying \"Obstinate, headstrong girl! I am ashamed of you!\" and \"You go girl!\""}, {"response": 85, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (13:46)", "body": "Cheryl: I'll accept both with chuckles! Donna: thats wonderful, I like that song and when I listen to it, it will now have added meaning. To Mr. Fitzwilliam Darcy: Sir, thank you for your fullsome recommmendation. May I trouble you further by enquiring why a man of your sensibility and cultural taste associates a figleaf with ill-breeding? I myself have been in the habit of associating them with the classical sculp tures of young Greek gods. Sincerely, Miss Hilary"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (13:51)", "body": "I feel some of Darcy's most physically attractive moments are during the first part of the proposal scene--his earnest, open, vulnerable look is unbeatable. At the beginning, he is healthy, his hair is clean and his face has color. He is the ultimate hu nk at his decorative best. However, it seems by the end of scene, the last 5 or 6 seconds, he looks oily, emaciated and sickly as though the beginning and end were shot with a month or two respite. I find this unsettling and it jars the ambience of a cr tical part, but I can't explain it away. Am I imagining that, \"you have said quite enough madam\" is delivered by a pasty, consumptive stand-in?"}, {"response": 87, "author": "panache", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (14:48)", "body": "Dear Miss Hilary, You must allow me to declare that my earlier statement was that a man \"of the lowest order\" would use such a leaf, by which I meant \"the natural man\" of Eden or indeed Graeco-Roman legend and art. For such a man it might be an item of use or adornment, b ut for a gentleman in my day it would only be seemly in a play, artwork, or perhaps a momentary remnant from gardening on one's estate. I did not intend any slight upon such use in general, only to state my opinion as to my personal view and use. For my own private life, I believe in total, open immersion, in a pond, etcetera, without the coy use of artificial decoration or \"plug-ins.\" I cannot speak more plainly, as I beg you to understand. Respectfully decided in my opinion, I remain, Fitzwilliam Darcy"}, {"response": 88, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (15:47)", "body": "Elaine,I beleive that the proposal scene was one of he first scenes to be filmed and in slightly warmer weather then most others {and before they new each other}.IMHO: I am sure if there was anything that could have been done to relieve him of his \"oily, emaciated, and sickly\" appearance,it would have been cold jump in the nearest pond,but alas there no was pond oh! hummm LOL{look of longing} at Rosiings at least I didn't think there was. I must say I never noticed, he always \"looks\" good to ME."}, {"response": 89, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (20:10)", "body": "Donna, CF looks fabulous, better than fabulous for 90% of the proposal scene. My concern is the last few seconds. He looks totally different when he delivers his last few lines, rather gaunt to me and it's bothersome!"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (21:28)", "body": "To Mr Fitzwilliam Darcy, Sir, I thank you for your explanation, and now have only to say that I comprehend your meaning exactly, and am pleased our opinions concur. Sincerely, Miss Hilary"}, {"response": 91, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (03:25)", "body": "God."}, {"response": 92, "author": "panache", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (05:54)", "body": "Yes, Kali, I believe your're right! CF's next role could be God, it's been so long since The Ten Commandments film. And Colin plays guitar so maybe he sings well enough to do a musical like J.C.Superstar. On second thought, maybe he'd bee more suitable as a Hindu god of love: wonder how he'd look in blue make-up, long black hair, gold adornments, and assorted girls around him in a flowery meadow? WE'd try out for the assorted girls parts, naturally. %-)"}, {"response": 93, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (08:38)", "body": "Just saw Part 5 again. Hard to believe still the sheer power CF's look. He definitely was channeling direct from whatever Love source there is in the universe (pardon the LA babble) to hit all us that hard. Feel like I've been magnetized (zapped) again this morning. Wheee!"}, {"response": 94, "author": "fen", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (07:46)", "body": "What! The drooling stopped? Maybe this will help- In the San Francisco Chronicle on Dec.5th, there was an article titled \"A Hunk-a, Hunk-a Burnin' 'Tap\" by Octavio Roca about \"Aussies rock in explosive dance show\"...True, not about CF, but the title ca ught my eye (Cheryl et al., there's an imitator out there) AND it has a photograph of some hunks dancing you'd like AND it sounds like a great show, if you can make it to the S.F. area before show leaves Dec. 15th. (Ian may know this troupe.) An excerpt below: They've already taken a couple of continents by storm, and now they are poised to conquer S.F. They're hot, they're Australian, they won England's Olivier Award last year, and if they don't win a Tony next year there may well be a revolution. Dein Pe rry's \"Tap Dogs,\" directed and designed by Nigel Triffitt, opened at the Orpheum Theatre on Tues. night on a national tour that will land these dancers on Broadway in 1997.It's the holiday event of the season, a sweeping, noisy, fast, and fabulous hit.... his is heavy-duty, industrial strength, sexy and just plain terrific dancing. I had expected a sort of Aussie \"Stomp: The Next Generation\" or maybe a \"Bring in da Noise, Bring in da Hunks.\" The show is that of course but it is also much more...\" For info, call (415)776-1999"}, {"response": 95, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (11:35)", "body": "Dear Jake, Thank you for your kind review and the claim that you think of me when when you see the words \"Hunk-a Hunk-a\" although I am not quite sure that I should be flattered by that! It is true that I am always on the lookout for new Hunk material, but there is only one \"Hunk-a\" and I think it scandalous for these Aussies to appropiate the title! Perhaps if you could arrange for me to have a backstage pass to the gentlemen's dressing rooms, I may do some field research and report back as to whether thes Beefcake Babes deserve the name \"Hunk-a.\" I would take no pleasure in it, I would comsider it a service to my fellow women. Your humble servant, etc. Cheryl"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (13:14)", "body": "Jake, Cheryl, Haven't see the Tap Dogs live myself - I would like to - but they are meant to be fantastic dance troupe. However, check-fleece torn-sleeve shirts and raggy jeans is hardly Darcy country. And as far as Chippendale style shows go, I'm not interested."}, {"response": 97, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (16:05)", "body": "I have seen the Tap Dogs dancing - MMMMMMMMMMMH !!!! (and other Lydia type noises)."}, {"response": 98, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (18:19)", "body": "Anna, dare I say it? You lucky (tap) dog! And I bet they leave the Bay Area before I can see 'em, (doggone it)! (I know, a pun is the lowest form of humor). So here's my version of a scarcely remembered joke from years ago: The sexton goes to ring the chimes for service but runs into an obstacle- the bell rope is broken. However, a passerby who hears of his problem offers to help- and does so by going up in to the tower and running headlong into the bell, then hurtles to the ground below. Shocked others gather around the body and one asks \"Does anyone know his name?\" The sexton running up says, \"I don't know it, but his face rings a bell.\" Next day, same roblem for the sexton- no rope, etc. Another identical passerby charges up and offers to help, saying he's the twin of the dead man. He goes up, runs headlong into the bell, falls to the ground, another crowd of grieved onlookers surround him, same ques tion to the sexton, who this time says \"I don't know, but he's a dead ringer for the man whose face rings a bell.\""}, {"response": 99, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (18:34)", "body": "I forgot to do some drooling above; pardonnez-moi! D ashingly daggy A ristocratic R avenhaired C onnubial bliss Y earning incarnate Remember Mae West's saying something to Cary Grant like \"Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?\" (Caroline B. would reel from the shock.) All your earlier daggy comments and current gift wish topic comments reminded me of Mae. ; -)"}, {"response": 100, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (00:59)", "body": "Lord, does it ever stop?!!! ;) I know this is sacrelidge, but I have a confession to make...I'm not a Mr. Darcy person! I never have been! All the while I've been secretly in love with Mr. Knightley and haven't realized it! AAAARRRRRGGGHHHH! Kaffeine, does your site offer counselin g for poor deluded souls like me? ;) - K PS - But if it's okay with Mr. L-B, I'd still like to be friends! ;)"}, {"response": 101, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (09:03)", "body": "NO NO NO how can this be Kali ,I don't know Kali, I feel that I should not be so fickle. When did you know It was Mr. Knightley Kali? After you read the book or after you saw the movie? Cheryl should we let her off this easy. Oh, will the shades in the Pe mberely chat room survive? I will have to think about it uh?"}, {"response": 102, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (13:05)", "body": "Kali, that you should have been so blind! How can it be that until this moment you hardly knew yourself? (Iknow it should be from Emma, but I'm too lazy right now).I could see this from half a world away! But we still love ya."}, {"response": 103, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (14:22)", "body": "Okay Kali,I am sure I will be obessed with him too. As soon as the video is released."}, {"response": 104, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (16:27)", "body": "Ah, Kali, what can I say - such truly excellent taste in men! (She says as she ducks for cover!)"}, {"response": 105, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (16:39)", "body": "Ah, Kali, what can I say - such truly excellent taste in men! (She says as she ducks for cover!)"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (16:58)", "body": "Thank you, Kaff...it's us against the world, I'm afraid! ;) But seriously, I DO still love Mr. Darcy...but something clicked a month or so ago...it was the third re-read of _Emma_ coupled with an earlier viewing of the Miramax film...it darted through me with the speed of an arrow that Mr. knightley must marry no one but myself! ;) Plus, I think L-B would tire easily of someone so deludedly like Emma..."}, {"response": 107, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (17:00)", "body": "Oh, thank you, Hilary! Will you pay for my therapy? ;)"}, {"response": 108, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (17:10)", "body": "I might as well make my own confession. Before P&P2, Mr. Knightley was my favorite Austen hero too."}, {"response": 109, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (17:14)", "body": "I am exceedingly fond of most of Jane Austen's heroes. Darcy has always been my favorite, but I believe that I like Mr Knightley as well as Capt. Wentworth. And Col. Brandon went up in my esteem after I watched (and watched, and etc.) Alan Rickman's ver sion."}, {"response": 110, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (17:44)", "body": "Kali, I alone see through your paltry arts. You wish us to think you do not compete for Darcy's affections so that we will let down our guard....and you may sweep in to claim the prize! Knightley, indeed! I know the one you think of nightly! Grace"}, {"response": 111, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (22:11)", "body": "Oh Kali, Kali, Kali...And I thought I had raised you right! I like, I admire, I greatly esteem Mr. Knightly, and, were there no Mr. Darcy, he should be the man of my dreams, but Kali, why should you choose to settle for a hamburger when there is filet m ignon to be had! We shall have to have a little heart-to-heart very soon my dear!"}, {"response": 112, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (23:33)", "body": "Well, if you gave him to me for Christmas, Cheryl, i'd happily take him...not to mention ther fact that I'd love you forever...! ;) THanks a lot, Grace - your faith in me is encouraging...you doubt my love for my dear Mr. Knightley? ;)"}, {"response": 113, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (23:34)", "body": "Well, if you gave him to me for Christmas, Cheryl, i'd happily take him...not to mention ther fact that I'd love you forever...! ;) THanks a lot, Grace - your faith in me is encouraging...you doubt my love for my dear Mr. Knightley? ;)"}, {"response": 114, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (11:32)", "body": "Have to say, the Northam/Knightley combinaison is quite explosive and does great competition to our favorite Firth/D'Arcy hero. Yes, I too have to admit that Mr. Knightley's Miramax version is a most romantic hero. His sweet touch of vulnerability and hum ility is very becoming. Who would'nt wanted to be Emma and dance the Mr. B'Maggot with him? I'm sure others will indulge in rewatching this scene and others over and over and over an over.... It would'nt surprise me if the video came out on time for St. Valentin's Day."}, {"response": 115, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (13:08)", "body": "Amy, I agree with you. Mr. Knightly was my favorite until Firth showed us the new Darcy. The older I get, the more I prefer Mr. K's solidity and general kindness and good manners. I am jealous that mere child of 21 who did not even appreciate him until the end of the book should have captured his heart. Of course, in any other 1990's movie, a late-30'ish hero who ended up marrying the spoiled, pretty, young heiress would be panned by the female audience."}, {"response": 116, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (13:15)", "body": "Kali, where therapy is concerned, well...love does have its price."}, {"response": 117, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (14:18)", "body": "Hey, what's wrong with being pretty, young, and 21? ;)"}, {"response": 118, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (16:29)", "body": "The FoF page has some new pics, including ones from the BBC hardback of P&P I mentioned a while ago - I'm going to attempt to link this to the one of Darcy and Georgiana. If that doesn't work the url is; http://www.iupui.edu/~rogersc/PicSite/darcygeo.htm"}, {"response": 119, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (16:31)", "body": "The FoF page has some new pics, including ones from the BBC hardback of P&P I mentioned a while ago - I'm going to attempt to link this to the one of Darcy and Georgiana. If that doesn't work the url is; http://www.iupui.edu/~rogersc/PicSite/darcygeo.htm"}, {"response": 120, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (16:35)", "body": "curioser and curioser - I hit the reload button because the image didn't load and that posted my message again ...I've also now lost all the images, including the 'wallpaper'. (and yes, I'll cross post this to yapp)"}, {"response": 121, "author": "fen", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (06:32)", "body": "Very nice pictures. Thank you (but sorry about your wallpaper)."}, {"response": 122, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (08:23)", "body": "The real advantage of changing to a Northam/Mr. Knightly allegiance is at least one can anticipate additional romantic-hero parts from him. It appears Mr. Firth intends to cut his admirers off."}, {"response": 123, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (14:21)", "body": "Hey...I was in love with Knightley AND Darcy before they ever became JN or CF!"}, {"response": 124, "author": "jane", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (22:44)", "body": "Kali, you mustn't forget Captain Wentworth. Who wouldn't be in love with him even before he became CH and we got to see how funny those hats were. Jane"}, {"response": 125, "author": "Bells", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (02:27)", "body": "Have to confess that Captain Wentworth's always been my hero. But then, I'm still waiting to see the film adaption of Emma, so maybe Knightley will grow on me? I must say, I did NOT like Emma when I read it at school - I think it's the least approachable of Austen's work (though probably one of the better). Bye the way, I was amused to see references to Dein Perry's tapdogs (way back at response 94) ... they are rather good looking talented chaps (but, yes, this is nepotism)"}, {"response": 126, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (07:29)", "body": "I'm all astonishment at the drooling abilities here! Onesided (CF or Darcy), bilateral (Darcy and Knightly), triangular ...how do you ladies manage it without ruining your sprigged muslin, or your appearance around the gentlemen"}, {"response": 127, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (15:10)", "body": "I like that, France...since I drool bilaterally, does that mean I do so out of both sides of my mouth? ;) - K"}, {"response": 128, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (15:43)", "body": "Either that or you are leaking breast milk."}, {"response": 129, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (16:39)", "body": "Amy...eeeewwwww!"}, {"response": 130, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (16:42)", "body": "Been there, done that!"}, {"response": 131, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (20:00)", "body": "A reminder emailed to me by one of our number who is too shy to post. Anybody else who feels this way, please always feel free to email me. I always like to hear about lurkers and never violate confidences. THE REMINDER: According to my local TV guide, Valmont will be showing on Bravo TV tonight at 10:30 PM EST."}, {"response": 132, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (12:35)", "body": "Kali the bilateral drooling is ok, just remember *do not* connect the nostrils! Like when you ROFLOLNC after a glass of port."}, {"response": 133, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (14:10)", "body": "Oh yes...ROTFLOLAN...Hilary, Cheryl, and I anticipated the need for that acronymn long ago..."}, {"response": 134, "author": "panache", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (22:09)", "body": "The onesided drooling image reminds me of Bogart's sidelipped dexterity with simultaneously dangling a smoke and speaking many lines rapidfire. Me, I'm such a \"onesider\" (lefthander, to be exact) that my right hand is even computer-mouse-challenged. Are there keyboards designed for lefties? Naturally, I therefore unilaterally drool for Darcy. (Sounds like a sitcom voting scene.)"}, {"response": 135, "author": "jane", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (22:51)", "body": "This was on Alicia's board from amy2.\" This from the 12/10 HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: \"Colin Firth, who played Mr. Darcy in the BBC's highly successful adaptation of PRIDE & PREJUDICE, is tipped to be the lead in a new Australian film based on the classic novel \"Seven Little Australians\" due to go into production next year.\" So what's the novel? I am sure one of our seven or so little Australians can fill us in. I was going to post this query on the Favorite books thread, but I examined my heart and decided that my motivation had more to do with drooling than with literary c uriousity."}, {"response": 136, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (00:30)", "body": "..ROTFLOLAN...Hilary, Cheryl, and I anticipated the need for that acronymn long ago... That's what I recollected....I was around during those daggy days... just got the abbreviation wrong."}, {"response": 137, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (03:24)", "body": "a member of JASA has made a quilt of reproductions of stills from P&P2; predominantly showing the 'subtle facial expression' of Elizabeth and Darcy, with the wedding scenes as a central motif. What a way to keep warm. I want one! (I have never read 7 little Australians - sorry)"}, {"response": 138, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (05:24)", "body": "I've done a bit of drooling this morning - at the dentist's. And though I tried to close my eyes and think of...(no, not King and Country you fools) Darcy, I suspect I could not keep my mind focused. I can assure you that this here thread is vastly preferable !"}, {"response": 139, "author": "Belinda", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (06:04)", "body": "Re: the Seven Little Australians The Seven Little Australians, is a \"classic\" Australian children's novel about seven (no!) rather mischievous and lively children who live with their father and stepmum in a house on the Paramatta River (near Sydney, one of Australia's earliest settlement s) in the 1890's. I guess if Colin is to be part of this movie, he will have to play the lucky dad, as I feel he's too much of a strapping lad to be cast as one of the young-uns in short pants. What an opportunity to drool ... Colin as a daddy ... though I don't know, a d ad with 7 kiddies might not be something worth drooling over! P.S. I've never read it either!"}, {"response": 140, "author": "Belinda", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (06:06)", "body": "By the way (for the purists) when I said \" one of Australia's earliest settlements\" I was referring to Paramatta, not Sydney, which was of course, the first!"}, {"response": 141, "author": "fen", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (08:31)", "body": "I wonder if: a) The Seven Little Australians is the same vintage as The Five Little Peppers, and How They Grew , another kiddie classic; and b) if CF is the sort of dad to allow his son Will to be in the new film with him? (Well, they are an acting family!)"}, {"response": 142, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (18:25)", "body": "Ann2...DAGGY DAYS...I love it!...I miss them...sniff...Hilary?! Where are you, Dagmistress.....????!!!!!!! - K ;)"}, {"response": 143, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (23:52)", "body": "The quilt sounds like a wonderful idea -- I thought that I might make one that only had Darcy and Lizzie's bodies. The pillow shams would have their heads. Then when my husband and I go to bed, lay our heads on the pillows, and tuck the quilt under our chins -- his head would replace Darcy's and mine would replace Lizzie's. All that would be left is for my husband to say to me \"Dearest, Lovliest....\"."}, {"response": 144, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (00:08)", "body": "Oh Candace, you are far gone!"}, {"response": 145, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (14:31)", "body": "Kali! - you called? Sorry if I'm slipping. Its not lack of interst, just that I'm busy trying to bundle up the family for a trip to Adelaide for Xmas. Also its not as easy at spring - don't know why. I haven't forgotten about the Ransome site.... I haven't read '7 little Australians' either! But will Colin come to Aust to be on location do you think?"}, {"response": 146, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (14:34)", "body": "Love you, Hilary! ;)"}, {"response": 147, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (18:06)", "body": "Ok ladies, I cannot believe that we have not posted to this thread since last Friday! I am so disappointed in us all, I am shock, shocked and grieved. The virtual birthday ball bash surpassed this thread in number of responses. It is up to us to see th at this this thread regains it's hottest posting topic status! I shall begin (as I always have to!): I missed the latest showing of \"Hostages\" (again) but someone \"revealed\" to me that there was a momentary glimpse of CF in the buff (and I missed it!) Those of you who saw \"it\" can I please have a full report? And, comfession time, how many of us have done a slow-motion or even frame-by-frame viewing of the famous bathtub scene in P&P2 hoping to see something interesting? I will confess that I have. Let me hear from the rest of you! And let the drooling begin!"}, {"response": 148, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (20:49)", "body": "Cheryl - nine minutes into \"Hostages\" CF (or John McCarthy)is stripped by his kidnappers. There is maybe a half second front view (his hands covering strategic body portions) before he is turned around by a kidnapper and pushed naked into a cell. After that, just a view of his foot and ankle being shackled. There was actually a longer view of him (if that was him) naked in \"The Advocate\", though I'm not sure whether that wasn't a body-double, unless he looks thinner from the back than from the front. Sure, I've slow-motioned the bathroom scene - but that darn robe gets in the way everytime! ;)"}, {"response": 149, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (21:50)", "body": "His appearance in the Advocate turned me off. In fact the whole movie did. The only thing I found redeeming was the premise, but somebody could have told me that."}, {"response": 150, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (23:10)", "body": "O.K. I did slow-mo the bath tub scene, but I was only looking for chest hair. As for the Hostages, I was all astonishment! So those were his hands. Well that is certainly a welcome relief!"}, {"response": 151, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (23:52)", "body": "CF alert - Bravo is showing Valmont at 8:00 Thursday evening and again at 2:00am Friday."}, {"response": 152, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (13:41)", "body": "''So those were his hands. Well that is certainly a welcome relief!'' Elaine, how shall we punish you for that remark? SQTM (Snikering Quietly To Myself)"}, {"response": 153, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (17:41)", "body": "I can't believe you guys. CF isn't even that cute, unless he's playing Darcy.;)"}, {"response": 154, "author": "jane", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (17:52)", "body": "Kali, I totally agree. When I see non-Darcy pictures of him or films, I wonder where that wonderful appeal has gone. I enjoy his acting in other things, but no magic. I keep watching my P&P tapes to see what is so engaging about him. And I watch and watch and watch....As Amy says, it's Darcy we have the crush on."}, {"response": 155, "author": "panache", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (19:42)", "body": "Well, I used to think it was just DarcyVision that got to me, but ten days ago I my husband compassionately gave me as \"wallpaper\" the Friends of Firth (A Web Site On the Work of Colin Firth)opening page, center photo of him glancing sideways ve ry personally at me, in modern togs...and I have to say I'm hooked every time I turnn on the computer and that face smiles knowingly at me before he coyly half-hides behind a couple of icons! A shrink would have a field day watching my face and liste ing to my \"Hi ya, buddy\" before I swoosh to the internet. #-) oooh baby!"}, {"response": 156, "author": "panache", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (19:54)", "body": "This is my wallpaper! Hope it appears below! http://www.iupui.edu/~rogersc/images/firtest.jpg"}, {"response": 157, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (20:53)", "body": "It's the voice that gets me."}, {"response": 158, "author": "jane", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (16:36)", "body": "Cecily, what a nice thing for a husband to do. Like our best Austen heroes. Jane"}, {"response": 159, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (17:30)", "body": "Kali, How about when he walks into Rosings after the first proposal. He is just standing there {thinking what to do next} with that look on his face and the dimple in his chin, his hair, his eyes.Then when he runs up the stairs three steps at a time. Ok, maybe he is just tolerable???"}, {"response": 160, "author": "cat", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (15:17)", "body": "Kali, I am with you again. He isn't that cute. Have you seen him in \"The Secret Garden\"? UGH! It is Darcy that I am in love with, not Colin Firth.I had a dream about Colin Firth. Except I was thirteen in my dream. Ok here it is. I am going to cut it into segments because it is 3 pages long in tiny print. Colin Firth was filming a movie HERE! In south Florida! He wrote to us asking if he could stay at our house while filming. Of course we obliged him and let him stay. I was overjoyed and hoped he would answer some of my questions. He played Mr.Darcy i n Pride an Prejudice. I was curious about him. He acted just as Mr.Darcy did in the first part of P&P very proud and concieted. My parents at the time were divorced. Because my mother was at work almost all day and night to make money I had to care for my younger brothers, cook dinner, and clean the house. I went on with my normal life. I practiced my piano and singing for I took lessons. He thought I was just showing off and tried to distract me at times that he knew I was busy. I tried to find the reason why he was so proud. He ignored every attempt. I followed him to the studio to confront him. I bumped into his manager. He said that Mr.Firth had reason to act uptight. I asked why. He responded \"His daughter who is three years old and lives in Boston. She is in the hospital. They think she has leukimia, and she needs a bone marrow transplant\". \"Oh\" I replied. I left in search of Mr.Firth. He was in a room and the door was locked. I waited silently outside the door. After about 15 minut es he anxiously stepped outside the door....."}, {"response": 161, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (13:20)", "body": "While browsing in a magazine store that sells foreign publications, I came across the January '97 issue of Harpers & Queen. It includes an interview with Ruth Gemmell, the actress who plays CF's girlfriend in the upcoming movie Fever Pitch. The relevant part is: \"When I told them about my part, my friends used to scream down the phone, but I was quite scared of him. But he's a lovely bloke, unaffected and sweet, and not at all showy, so the only time I was nervous after the first day was when we had to snog. In front of hundreds of people.\" My next question was one I had to ask on behalf of millions. \"Well, it wasnt' like the theater--we didn't snog properly. But it looks fine. Colin knew what he was doing--he's obviously had to snog on film before. When I told my boyfriend, he was delighted. He just said, \"So, Mr. Darcy's a crap kisser?\" OTE> (Snogging I think is British for necking) (Memo to boyfriend: In your dreams, buddy!) This brings up all the recent discussion, here & in other topics, of Darcy vs. Firth (\"His mouth looks different, blah, blah \"). It seems to me that some of us are getting awfully princess & the pea-ish here. Personally, I will take Darcy, Firth, or any combination of the two at any time. My optimal configuration would be Darcy looks + Darcy loot + Firth personality + a little Darcy attitude + some chest hair, but on this subject I am easy to please. I will gladly take an all-Firth packag . And the rest of you ladies can just eat your picky little hearts out! :-P"}, {"response": 162, "author": "panache", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (19:04)", "body": "I completely agree with your liking CF and Darcy, in any combo. And cleverly put by you too, Anne3! ;-)"}, {"response": 163, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (21:52)", "body": "Donna, I say it again: CF is cute as Darcy, but not as anything else (even himself!)...Darcy was just a magical role for him...I can't explain it any other way! ;)"}, {"response": 164, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (09:42)", "body": "OK, ladies, picture this: the phone rings, you pick it up and you recognize Colin Firth's husky voice before he even says his name and invites you to meet him tea. What is your reaction? a) hang up the phone as soon as you hear his voice; b) give him th e ten seconds it takes to say his name and THEN hang up ; c) not hang up but sit there lie a blooming idiot without a word until he gives up & the line goes dead; d) say harshly \"Sorry, Mr. Firth, I only liked you as Darcy\" and hang up; or e) listen polit ly, speak intelligently, thank him for the invitation, and agree it would be pleasant, etc. AND GO! This is today's pass/fail quiz for you all; please respond below. Personally, I have already written MY polite phone response in case such a call ever comes through so I can simply read it to him, in case my brain goes numb. ;-)"}, {"response": 165, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (09:58)", "body": "Oh yes- please see Topic 106 for the way Colin would be looking at you when he came to your front door to pick you up. \"oooooohh baby,\" as Cheryl would say!"}, {"response": 166, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (18:00)", "body": "God, any woman would be stupid indeed to turn down tea with Firth!!!"}, {"response": 167, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (21:05)", "body": "I'd choose E, but not without temptation for D...;) I'd do it just to make you dears jealous! ;)"}, {"response": 168, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (00:21)", "body": "Oh my dear Cecily, option E of course! At least, I would hope it would be option E, it does say \"listen politely, speak intelligently , thank him for the invitation, and agree it would be pleasant, etc. AND GO!\" It's that \"speak intellig ently\" part that may trip me up! But I should endeavor to not embarrass myself or all of you, my dear friends. Would it be ok if I got just a little drorol on the phone receiver? After all, he cannot see it! (Oh, and Cecily...ooooh baby, indeed!)"}, {"response": 169, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (07:59)", "body": "Cheryl, I'd be careful about getting drorol on the phone receiver."}, {"response": 170, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (09:41)", "body": "I live in Sacramento, very near the beautiful American River, Sacramento River, and Folsom Lake. Can I exchange \"Tea\" for a nice long picnic along one of these banks which ofcourse includes a swim with Mr. Firth?"}, {"response": 171, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (09:55)", "body": "Option E, naturlich , though like Cheryl I'd panic and have a problem or two speaking intelligently/intelligibly; I'd also no doubt become an absolute clod, hitting my head on the top of his Jaguar as I try to get in, spilling my tea, etc. BUT, I p romise I'd also quickly have a friend photograph or video us discreetly from a distance because otherwise I'd (you'd, nobody'd) never believe it'd happened later and I'd want to see proof (again and again)(unless I was a total clod and spilled, etc )."}, {"response": 172, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (11:07)", "body": "Just thought I'd let you know there's a great picture of CF in this month's PREMIERE MAGAINZE (the one with Whitney on the cover). He's at the premiere of ENGLISH PATIENT and looking very Darcyish."}, {"response": 173, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (15:00)", "body": "Candace: \"Can I exchange \"Tea\" for a nice long picnic along one of these banks which ofcourse includes a swim with Mr. Firth?\" Candace, trust you to find a way to get him wet!"}, {"response": 174, "author": "mpk", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (03:20)", "body": "I too would have trouble speaking intelligently because I would be drooling on the receiver while my heart would be racing. Can't imagine anyone woman doing anything but...!"}, {"response": 175, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (20:29)", "body": "Push him in, Candace...need some help? ;)"}, {"response": 176, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (23:33)", "body": "From the Dec 15th Show World magazine (Stacy Smith): \"Q. Please tell us about Colin Firth, who played the difficult role of Mr. Darcy in the Emmy nominated \"P&P\"? A. If reader mail is any indication - and it always is - the very easy on the eyes 36 year old British actor is hot and getting hotter by the day. He has a memorable tragic supporting role in the ecstatically reviewd film \"The English Pateient\" In spri ng, he'll be seen in the feature adptation of Joseph Conrad's \" Nostromo\". And he's in the forthcoming \"A Thousand Acres\" big screen adaptation of the Pulitizer winning novel starring Michelle Pfeiffer, Jessica Lange and Jennifer Jason Leigh. Firth got his start on the London stage and went on to such films as \"Valm ont\" Single, he's the father of a 6 hyear old son by former love Meg Tilly.\""}, {"response": 177, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (02:50)", "body": "Thank you Terry for the quotes. It is very sporting of you to assist us in our drooling efforts!"}, {"response": 178, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (07:31)", "body": "Fess up, who sent this question in?"}, {"response": 179, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (09:34)", "body": "from Response #161 above: \"Well, it wasnt' like the theater--we didn't snog properly. But it looks fine. Colin knew what he was doing--he's obviously had to snog on film before. When I told my boyfriend, he was delighted. He just said, \"So, Mr. Darcy's a crap kisser?\" (Snogging I think is British for necking) my addendum= snogging means kissing, embracing or lovemaking"}, {"response": 180, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (09:46)", "body": "I also wanted to mention that Firth apparently has some rather enduring insecurities. Although I've not read extensively, I do recall an article about the first day of filming P&P2 and Firth was wandering about trying to strike up a conversation with the other actors. Even though he had some acquaintances, no one seemed to want to speak to him. He assumed that he was being avoided because he had the romantic lead and he was very uncomfortable. He just wanted to be one of the gang, not BMOC. The incid nt was painful enough that 5-6 months later he still readily remembered it during an interview. What a little cutie-pie, not quite ready for the trial by fire. Perhaps once he outgrows this humble attitude, he'll try another romantic lead."}, {"response": 181, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (10:42)", "body": "\"what a little cutie-pie\"--- I love that expression! Don't you think part of his appeal is that humble attitude? Thanks to AbFab at another site, here are CyberKisses for Colin (An Amusing Diversion): http://www.geocities.com/Paris/8801"}, {"response": 182, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (10:44)", "body": "He was so nervous and terrified at the first read-through. That he was found moaning in the gents room. He just wanted to be able to turn Colin into Darcy.You must get a copy of The Making of P&P Elaine. There is an interview and many pictures of \"cutie-pie\" that you will refer to many times. I can't wait to see him in \"Nostromo\" and \"1,000 Acres ,if I may say will be his most romantic role since Mr. Darcy"}, {"response": 183, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (10:56)", "body": "I'm going to post this on a couple of topic threads--- there is excellent film discussion of Colin in A Month in the Country (AMITC) going on at http://www.iupui.edu/~rogersc/filmdisc/AMITC.html Another fine film by Colin (and his favorite); it's worth renting the video."}, {"response": 184, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (10:57)", "body": "Fever Pitch is said to be a romantic comedy."}, {"response": 185, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (11:03)", "body": "Ann, I was wondering about \"Fever Pitch\". When will we be able to see it? Do you know of a release date?"}, {"response": 186, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (11:12)", "body": "Donna- courtesy of FAQ: Mr. Firth next stars in Fever Pitch, a romantic comedy loosely based on a autobiographical book of the same name by soccer fan Nick Hornby. Mr. Firth plays Paul Ashworth, a football-loving teacher. The six week shoot at Maidenhead and London, England began May 7, 1996. This Channel Four/Wildgaze/Scala feature film ++ will be released March 1997. It is reported that Polygram has picked up the film for distribution. Variety described Fever Pitch as the \"surprise hit\" of the Milan Film Market. Cast: Colin Firth, Ruth Gemmell, Ken Stott, Neil Pearson, Holly Aird, Mark Strong, Lorraine Ashbourne, Luke Aikman,"}, {"response": 187, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (11:16)", "body": "] Don't you think part of his appeal is that humble attitude? ____ Yes."}, {"response": 188, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (11:16)", "body": "You are very good Frances, thank you. I just went there myself."}, {"response": 189, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (18:02)", "body": "] . . . no one seemed to want to speak to him. He assumed that he was being avoided because he had the romantic lead . . . In the interview in the Making of P&P2 book, he says, \"I think because I was playing Darcy I had to work quite hard to convince people that I would be friendly during filming.\" I assumed this meant that this was because he was playing a character who is cold and unfriendly to strangers. It always surprises me how much trouble actors have in differentiating themselves--and each other--from the characters they play. Re Fever Pitch : In the Dec. 18- Jan. 1 issue of Time Out (London), there is a long article about the making of the movie. It includes a picture of Firth (possibly in character), looking quite hunky, and a couple of quotes from him."}, {"response": 190, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (19:34)", "body": "Anne3: \"Re Fever Pitch: In the Dec. 18- Jan. 1 issue of Time Out (London), there is a long article about the making of the movie. It includes a picture of Firth (possibly in character), looking quite hunky, and a couple of quotes from him.\" Please, don't keep us in suspense, Anne! Can you share with us, if not the actual hunky pics, then the quotes? We are ever on the lookout for more drooling material here!"}, {"response": 191, "author": "panache", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (09:50)", "body": "Way back at response #160, Cat said- I had a dream about Colin Firth. Except I was thirteen in my dream. Ok here it is. I am going to cut it into segments because it is 3 pages long in tiny print. Colin Firth was filming a movie HERE! In south Florida! He wrote to us asking if he coul d stay at our house while filming. Of course we obliged him and let him stay. I was overjoyed and hoped he would answer some of my questions. He played Mr.Darcy in Pride an Prejudice. I was curious about him. He acted just as Mr.Darcy did in the first par of P&P very proud and concieted. My parents at the time were divorced. Because my mother was at work almost all day and night to make money I had to care for my younger brothers, cook dinner, and clean the house. I went on with my normal life. I practice d my piano and singing for I took lessons. He thought I was just showing off and tried to distract me at times that he knew I was busy. I tried to find the reason why he was so proud. He ignored every attempt. I followed him to the studio to confront him. I bumped into his manager. He said that Mr.Firth had reason to act uptight. I asked why. He responded \"His daughter who is three years old and lives in Boston. She is in the hospital. They think she has leukimia, and she needs a bone marrow transplant\". \"Oh\" I replied. I left in search of Mr.Firth. He was in a room and the door was locked. I waited silently outside the door. After about 15 minutes he anxiously stepped outside the door..... CAT, GIVE US THE NEXT SEGMENTS!"}, {"response": 192, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (10:41)", "body": "Re Fever Pitch Sorry I don't have a scanner to share the photo with my sister droolers, but I can quote you the relevant passages. CF's comments in the Time Out article relate primarily to Nick Hornby, the author of the novel on which the film was based. Hornby also w rote the screenplay, which apparently differs quite a bit from the novel. Colin is quoted as saying, \"Nick is really using two voices in the book, the side of him that's an Arsenal obsessive and the side of him that knows he's being absurd. He's externa ised those two voices into the relationship between sad old me and Ruth, who represents all those people who think it's only a game, or say it's just 22 grown men kicking a piece of plastic around a pitch for 90 minutes.\" Later on, referring to Arsenal p layer George Graham, Colin says, \"You have to admire Nick for not changing the text when the scandals about Graham broke.\" The article goes on to say that although Firth had only attended one football game in his life before filming the movie (Southampto v Hull, 1976), he \"is now a convinced Gooner himself. He tries to catch every match he can when he's based in his Hackney bachelor pad.\" The article provides more information about the movie (but not, alas, when it is going to be released--it just says \"in 1997\"). It was not an easy book to transfer to the screen, \"not least because it has no plot as such. . . . [The film] now homes in on the famous 1988-89 season which climaxed unforgettably with that game at Anfield, the first ever match in which a League title has been decided by the final kick of the season. Hornby's character is now 'Paul,' a schoolteacher played by the rather hunky and un-Hornby-esque Colin Firth. The focus is on his relationship with a colleague, Sarah (Ruth Gemmell), which goes through various peaks and troughs as the season progresses and is sealed on the night of the post-victory party . . . There are also fla shbacks to the period between 1968 and 1972, when 'Paul' started going to Arsenal with his dad, played by [Neil] Pearson\" . . .Hornby is quoted as saying, \"What we've done is make a film that isn't about football.\" Time Out asked if it was about sex. \"N t really,\" Hornby says, \"lots of relationships stuff though, lots of talking in bed, a bit of grappling, but seriously the book is more concerned with the way that things like football obstruct relationships.\" Later on he says again, \"I don't think this is primarily a sports movie.\" The director is David Evans, who had previously worked only in television. Stephen Rea has a brief cameo as \"a fanatical Gooner, which Hornby and Evans suggested he perform for free as penance for his role in Mike Leigh's Life is Sweet, \" in which he apparently played a fan of a rival team."}, {"response": 193, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (12:01)", "body": "Amy2 is right Cheryl PREMIRE MAGAZINE has a very Darcyish pic. You must see it. It is the best picture so far of him not being Darcy,but looking like him and such a \"cutie-pie\"."}, {"response": 194, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (11:17)", "body": "I just wanted to say that at Firths FAQ is a list of all the books, audio recordings ect. pretaining to Mr.Firth if anyone is interested. Nostromo audio ISBN 0-14-086247-1,Penguin, 4 cassettes and 6 hours long price $23.95. This has been out for a while ."}, {"response": 195, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (12:50)", "body": "RE: response #192 FEVER PITCH Time Out asked if it was about sex. \"Not really,\" Hornby says, \"lots of relationships stuff though, lots of talking in bed, a bit of grappling , but seriously the book is more concerned with the way that things like football obstruct relationships.\" Later on he says again, \"I don't think this is primarily a sports movie.\" Grappling?? What a nautical or male expression! \"Snogging\" then has major implications, according to Wendy in #179."}, {"response": 196, "author": "LIZZY", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (13:20)", "body": "I just have to say that I am new! I am a helpless addict to P&P and Colin Firth. Someone please inform me on how this thing works!!"}, {"response": 197, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (14:09)", "body": "Hi, Lizzy! Well, you seem to have done the entry above just fine; what else do you need to know about how this works? When you've seen your entry submitted,you can click on austen conference (top or bottom of page) to see which other topics you'd like t o read or reply in by clicking on them in turn. Stay as long as you like at spring.com, then visit again when free. Some of these topic threads have hot links periodically about related CF topics, for photos, articles, etc. Try them too and good luck!"}, {"response": 198, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (14:31)", "body": "Welcome Lizzy. You can check out the porch conference too if you like for pointers to topics all around the Spring."}, {"response": 199, "author": "LIZZY", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (15:03)", "body": "THANK YOU!!!!"}, {"response": 200, "author": "fen", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (09:21)", "body": "This seemed to fit topic #4 so I've copied it here: (Cecily)...on recommendation I did check out A MONTH IN THE COUNTRY- FILM DISCUSSION site (have also seen film) and I agree with Carol's? comment about how, even at just 26? and in a different role, CF sunning himself on the tomb (right before the minis ter's wife wakens him) is a very kissable-looking stunner! (Where is MY fencing foil and pond? I shall conquer this!) Topic 24 of 113 [austen]: Duckface and Lady Catherine Response 63 of 64: Donna (Donna) * Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (14:22) * 2 lines Oh, I have not seen A MONTH IN THE COUNTRY but have read serval discussion. Sure would like to. I like \"very kissable-looking\". I guess I am back to \"drooling\" Oh well, can't help myself. Topic 24 of 113 [austen]: Duckface and Lady Catherine Response 64 of 64: Inko (Inko) * Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (15:18) * 1 lines LOL Cecily and Donna. Maybe we'd better head back to Topic #4 before we slobber all over this one!!;) Oh yes, that scene in A Month in the Country is gorgeous, as well as the final goodbye scene in the belfry with Mrs. Keach - oh those eyes. AMITC is indeed a fine film with spiritual and artistic themes well beyond the norm, along with all the fine acting. Good book, too."}, {"response": 201, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (10:05)", "body": "I am glad you moved this Jake thanks and thanks for your opinion about AMITC. How can you stand all of this gushy stuff."}, {"response": 202, "author": "fen", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (10:57)", "body": "]How can you stand all of this gushy stuff. Simple: men gush too, just in a different key & laconically"}, {"response": 203, "author": "cat", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (13:37)", "body": "Well....here is a really short part of the dream i had. I was standing patiently. I then said \"I've figured out why you've been acting so rude and arrogant. Your daughter in Boston is in the hospital. They tink she has luekimia but are not sure. I would not have taken it out on other people who can maybe h elp you. She needs a bone marrow transplant. If I were you I would go to her.\" I began to walk away when he stopped me."}, {"response": 204, "author": "panache", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (16:00)", "body": "Cat, please don't tease us this way. THEN what happened? ;-)"}, {"response": 205, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (23:38)", "body": "It's New Year's Eve, so naturally I'm browsing here and other CF sites while waiting for midnight hour of champagne to hit the West Coast here...found this bit at the Paris connection for Colin, and in memory of \"daggy days\" post it here for Cheryl & C o. --- Male costume and the male body also figured prominently in the gossip that circulated ceaselessly around the adaptation. It was confidentially claimed by the Times on 20 November 1995 that a million women, no more and no less, wanted to unbutton the damp white shirt that was worn by Colin Firth when he played Mr Darcy. It was auctioned for charity and fetched \ufffd 500. What the Sun described on 1 November 1995 as Darcy's 'straining breeches with the trapdoor front' may well have fetched considerably more had they too gone under the hammer. Mr Darcy's trousers attracted even more attention than Elizabeth Bennet's frocks and cleavage. . . .Mr Darcy's trousers still figured prominently in the mind's eye of those who had to write articles recording the high point s of the year. According to the Times on 26 December 1995, they were, without any doubt at all, the outfit of the year: Nothing came close to Colin Firth and those trousers. . . .The sight of Firth wearing button flap, full-fronted breeches sent women everywhere into fainting fits. Thee Regency dandy's pre- ference for a snug fit added to the garment's charm. The Independent declared on the same day that Firth was its man of the year because he was a 'sex symbol to outshine all Hollywood's hunkiest'. Those trousers were speaking for, as well as to, England. Clint Eastwood they ain't."}, {"response": 206, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (00:29)", "body": "I always liked The Independent..... Did Colin ever say which Football team he watches when he is in Hackney? If my memory serves me right, the nearest gound is at West Ham. Arsenal isn't far, and neither is Chelsea....."}, {"response": 207, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (00:30)", "body": ""}, {"response": 208, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (01:50)", "body": "Alfresco: \" in memory of \"daggy days\" post it here for Cheryl & Co.--- \" My dear, dear friend, on behalf of my \"company\" I do heartily thank you the fascinating words and the no less fascinating images they conjured (you will excuse the expression) up! Mr Darcy's trousers still figured prominently in the mind's eye of those who had to write articles recording the high points of the year. ...as they will ever figure prominately in our mind's eye... The sight of Firth wearing button flap, full-fronted breeches sent women everywhere into fainting fits. ...Oh my, yes...Candace, pass the smelling salts, please... The Regency dandy's preference for a snug fit added to the garment's charm. ...indeed it does! Oh most daggy indeed! What a pleasant way to ring in the New Year...now if I could only decide whether to ring to the right or to the left...I believe I shall do both...and enjoy the very great pleasure I am sure it will provide!"}, {"response": 209, "author": "summit", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (09:48)", "body": "I wonder if, for a modest $75 per person, the new owner of CF's shirt could be persuaded to circulate the shirt (like a library book) globally every seven days? A Charlotte Lucas would see the valuable possibilities in that. (Sigh. but I'm too Marianne m yself to do that!)"}, {"response": 210, "author": "cat", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (14:06)", "body": "Here is a bit more... \"You are right\" he said \"I have not treated you or your famil the way I should have. You have inconvienienced yourselves for my sake. You have let me into your home but I treated you with contempt. How could you ever forgive me?\". \"Mr. Firth,\" I began . \"Oh! Please call me Colin.\" he interupted. \"Colin,\" I corrected myself,\"You are forgiven. It wouldn't matter if you murdered my father. I would forgive you (yeah right). I cannot hold grudges against people. It is not in my nature. Now go to you daughter and hurry back.\" I said playfully nudging him."}, {"response": 211, "author": "cat", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (14:42)", "body": "While he was gone I went to get my bone marrow tested. It was a match. I donated the marrow she needed and told the doctor I wished to remain anonymous. When he came back I asked \"Well?\". \"she will be fine. I wish I knew who gave her the marrow. The doctor told us a young lady came in and donated it but wished to remain anonymous. Who could do such a thing? I am endebted to that person. She saved my daughter's life!\" he said. At that moment my good friend Shannon walked in the room. \"Well?\" she sked me,\"does he know?\""}, {"response": 212, "author": "summit", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (14:46)", "body": "Ooooh, I like the way you write so suspensefully, Cat!"}, {"response": 213, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (14:55)", "body": "Wendy: \"Ooooh, I like the way you write so suspensefully, Cat!\" She is such a tease, is she not? ;-)"}, {"response": 214, "author": "breezin", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (15:47)", "body": "Colin does have a way of fulfilling women's dreams...\"straining breeches\" and all."}, {"response": 215, "author": "cat", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (18:28)", "body": "I am sorry to keep you all in suspense. I hardly have the time to write it all out. I did write the whole thing out last week but something happened to where it could not get through. Here is some more. I shook my head no. \"Hey!\" Colin said, \"What happened to your arm?\" \"I had an operation.\" I replied. \"Why?\" he asked. \"To donate marrow to some little girl.\" Shannon said. \"It was you?\" he asked me. \"Yes, it was me.\" I replied shyly. \"I am FOREVER endebted to you.\" He said. \"No.\" I replied. \"I would have done it for others too.\" After Shannon left we took a walk to the park. I then blurted out \"Did you really kiss Jennifer Ehle?\" \"Yes.\" he replied. \"What does it feel like to kiss someone you on't love?\" I asked. \"It feels like kissing someone but not caring about it.\" he replied. I then said under my breathe \"What does it feel to kiss someone at all?\" He must have heard me or something because he then stopped and turned to me. and leaned t oward me. \"He is going to kiss me!\" I thought my mind raced."}, {"response": 216, "author": "cat", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (18:29)", "body": "From this point on it really gets out of hand."}, {"response": 217, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (19:51)", "body": "Cat - you are a dreadful tease!!;-) PLEASE continue."}, {"response": 218, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (21:53)", "body": "I think Cat must be running into the same PG innuendo wall we all do here ;-)"}, {"response": 219, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (23:00)", "body": "besides, imagination is often better than explication ;-)"}, {"response": 220, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (08:50)", "body": "Another tiny problem is I believe Cat said she was supposedly 13 in the dream. Why, we don't know, but CF would in real life be very wary around a minor."}, {"response": 221, "author": "cat", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (09:24)", "body": "I can't go on. The rest is TOOOOOO embarassing...."}, {"response": 222, "author": "cat", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "I was thirteen but I wasn't thirteen. I didn't know I was thirteen until this next part...."}, {"response": 223, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (09:59)", "body": "]...\"Why, we don't know, but CF would in real life be very wary around a minor.\" I meant to say, Why Cat is 13 in her dream we don't know, but CF, being an intelligent/law-abiding person, would in real life be very wary around a minor."}, {"response": 224, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (22:35)", "body": "Well here I am in Topic 4! Ostentatious Jane received some e-mail from J Brushfield regarding a New Book about Darcy ( since this appears to be a Darcy thread too ). S/he writes: At last, a new book about \ufffdPride and Prejudice\ufffd endorsed by the Curator of Jane Austen's House at Chawton. Published in England in July 1996 and already reprinted twice. For more information, see - Our URL, which is: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/estate/xda34/ if you want to see the cover or to read the author's comments. Darcy's Story is at present available only by airmail from England. The book has 240 pages, and the ISBN is 0 9528210 2 8. AS YOU LIVE OUTSIDE THE UNITED KINGDOM, If you want to purchase one or more copies of Darcy's Story, please send us a letter by airmail to the address below, enclosing: 1. your name 2. your address 3. an international money order for \ufffd9.00 (pounds sterling) for each copy of the book. This amount includes the cost of airmail postage and packing. 4. tell us how many copies you want. Your order will be sent immediately by return on receipt of your name, address and international money order. Please send your order to: COPPERFIELD BOOKS HILLBROOK HOUSE LYNCOMBE VALE ROAD BATH BA2 4LS UNITED KINGDOM and if you enjoy the book, please tell your friends. We offer 20% discount for orders of 10 copies or more at one time ! We look forward to hearing from you. And here's the cover!"}, {"response": 225, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (11:56)", "body": "Ooh, what enjoyable reading you all provide! With all this wet shirt talk and snug fitting breeches and Cat's eventually upcoming first kiss I hardly know how to keep up appearances. Maybe a book migth help me recollect my proper countenance. What!! is it all about Darcy from beginning to end?? Can it be just a bait for us droolers all over the world? Never mind 240 pages of Darcy for me would ,I suppose, be like a whole campful of soldiers to Lydia! I think I'll venture it.Will have to remake the cover pic though..."}, {"response": 226, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (17:44)", "body": "This is for you, Auntie! Quote from my newspaper on CF: \"Firth, who was so persuasive in last season's P&P, once more proves he's one of Britains top leading men.\" AMEN!"}, {"response": 227, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (19:19)", "body": "Aaaaahhhh, Men!"}, {"response": 228, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (21:02)", "body": "]Ooh, what enjoyable reading you all provide! With all this wet shirt talk and snug fitting breeches Topic #43 has some hot Darcy stuff happening too; check out Wendy's 11-part rendition called Romance Under the Elms ."}, {"response": 229, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (07:22)", "body": "In response to Caroline's message # 206 . I beg to differ. Hackney is in NE London. I'm not sure if Upton Park (West Ham) (East London) is the closest, Highbury (Arsenal) and Tottenham (both NNE London) are fairly near as well. Stamford Bridge (Chel sea) (South West) on the other hand is right across the other side of London."}, {"response": 230, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (17:47)", "body": "After three months of faithful reading, I have finally penetrated the 'daggy' references -- or should I say they have finally penetrated me."}, {"response": 231, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:33)", "body": "Katy: After three months of faithful reading, I have finally penetrated the 'daggy' references -- or should I say they have finally penetrated me. Good for you Katy! Welcome! ;-)"}, {"response": 232, "author": "MaryH", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (09:41)", "body": "This is probably the wrong thread to be confessing this, but I have to get it off my chest, so to speak. Actually, better to confess it here than on FoF, where I would probably be virtually stoned. But, to the point, after seeing \"The English Patient\" a nd \"Nostromo,\" I realized, as some others here have too, that it is indeed Mr. Darcy and not Mr. Firth that I am obsessed with. I understood perfectly why Kristin Scott Thomas had an affair with Ralph Fiennes when she was married to Colin Firth, whereas would never have understood if Lizzy-Jennifer cheated on Darcy-Colin. Does that make sense? As for \"Nostromo,\" I thought Colin was cute, but he just didn't do for me what he did as Mr. Darcy. Am I a heretic now? Or have others experienced something similar. (I must say that I did find Alfresco's gypsy story quiet, umm titilating. Perhaps it all depends upon the role.) But it made me a little sad to learn that I was obsessed with someone who doesn't exist as opposed to someone who's merely unobtainable, i.e. Colin Firth. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?"}, {"response": 233, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (10:35)", "body": "Mary H, I think you'll find many of us agree with you. We've discussed this before and come up with the same conclusion, Firth is an excellent actor but it's Mr Darcy we long for. I think I remeber Firth saying pretty much the same thing in a interview I once rea d. Something to the affect that woman have been in love Mr. Darcy for 200 years, he just play the character. Mich"}, {"response": 234, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (11:52)", "body": "I can seperate Mr. Darcy from CF,but every time I think of CF it is has Mr.Darcy so far (no matter what else he has done). CF has but a face(as many have said)to Mr. Darcy.I have to say I do see some of the same mannerisms portrayed in other movies ( No stromo . Maybe I shouldn't watch any of his movies.;-) Who am I kidding."}, {"response": 235, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "'I have finally penetrated the 'daggy' references -- or should I say they have finally penetrated me.' Now some people have all the luck, don't they?"}, {"response": 236, "author": "MaryH", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (15:30)", "body": "CF has \"but\" a face? Donna, what does that reference mean! I think you really are trying to tempt me into making unladylike comments about Mr. Darcy. First the 5-6 inches in the chat room and now this!"}, {"response": 237, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (15:56)", "body": "Hilary - you are BAAAAD!!!;-)"}, {"response": 238, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "Egads!Mary,Mary has a daggy mind.;-)"}, {"response": 239, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (21:11)", "body": "I saw Ghosts of Mississippi tonight and a character used the phrase \"Hunka Burnin' Love\"!! I almost spit up! Unfortunately, the person to whom this moniker was directed was decidedly un Darcy-like... :-("}, {"response": 240, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (22:14)", "body": "For all the \"Daggettes\" - Firth: An Explanation in Rhyme There was a young man named Fitzwilliam Whom women swooned o'er by the million; Firth with his dark hair And wonderful stare Stood tall in those pants and quite filling 'em ;-)"}, {"response": 241, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (00:03)", "body": "Wonderful Wendy! LOL!! Are you still around? Come to Pemberley, there's a party going on! :-)"}, {"response": 242, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (02:02)", "body": "Katy, re: the penetration comment: YUCK!!!!! ;)"}, {"response": 243, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "re: yuck Spelling problem or typo, Kali?;-)"}, {"response": 244, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (16:25)", "body": "Wendy - LOL! You are indeed a master at both prose and poetry. Congratulations!;-)"}, {"response": 245, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (07:09)", "body": "Here's a refined version of my Baths image for all of you, Ladies! But Amy, Cheryl and Candace, I suppose you will all prefer those nice images of the real wet Darcy sent by Anna! ;-) LOL"}, {"response": 246, "author": "hero", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (10:15)", "body": "Colin Firth fans would enjoyreading an article in the English paper the Daily Telegraph which (in the colour supplement) this last Saturday 12 January has an article about CF which ends with him confirming that his relationship with his Italian girlfriend is serious (as shown by the handsome ring she is wearing)."}, {"response": 247, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "Janet, I am so glad you made it in. Thanks for the pointer. I'll bet the firthlisters have a copy somewhere online."}, {"response": 248, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "The Firthlist apparently did have the Telegraph article, but I missed it as I only skim and often delete it unread (sorry, droolers, only so much time). The story is not yet up at the FOF site, but I am sure it won't be long before it is up. Keep checking http://www.iupui.edu/~rogersc/articles.html"}, {"response": 249, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (13:03)", "body": "Well, I for one am glad for Colin! At 36, with a child, a burgeoning career, etc., he deserves to be happily married and in love. :)"}, {"response": 250, "author": "summit", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (14:10)", "body": "A real life romance...how sweet!"}, {"response": 251, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (18:42)", "body": "I'll bet Meg Tilly now feels lame for wasting seven years of her life. That ring should have been hers... ---- Katy, dearest...I think you know what I mean! ;)"}, {"response": 252, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (08:18)", "body": "A Clinical Observation of Post-Firth Engagenment Syndrome by \"Dr. France\" ;-) As is the case when an eligible bachelor film star becomes engaged or married, many female fans may find themselves with some of these symptoms: anger, denial, sense of betrayal, jealousy, envy, frustration, eating disorders,sleep disorders, withdrawal s ymptoms, tantrums, depression, ...the list is long. They will learn eventually to detach themselves from his life choices, but this may be accompanied for a time of disliking him or refusing to have to do with his films or frantic letters to him or friends involving detailed explanations of why his choice of partner was such a poor one, etc. Of course, many fans never develop this syndrome, having long ago separated their star's life from their own, and they continue to enjoy his looks and whatever films of merit he makes. Then we have the special case of Character vs. Actor Love, as some of my callers have spoken about on previous shows: Darcy vs. Firth is one such case. ]from MaryH. above: \"But it made me a little sad to learn that I was obsessed with someone who doesn't exist as opposed to someone who's merely unobtainable, i.e. Colin Firth.\" This is a syndrome appears to affect a particular segment of fans, those wit h unusual reading habits, high IQ, dry humor, Anglo turns of phrase in their own speech patterns, a tendency to roll on the floor and laugh outloud when on the computer, bilateral drooling, and visiting chat rooms at late hours. It seems to be a harmless condition, however, that clears up on its on at death, leaving no distinguishing marks other than a certain smile. (this portion of Dr. France show brought to you by Depends ...)"}, {"response": 253, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (08:34)", "body": "Thank you doctor. I feel so much better. (LOL, very clever)"}, {"response": 254, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (09:58)", "body": "Well, I still like my husband and he's married."}, {"response": 255, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (12:10)", "body": "It's probably just a phase. All stars go through them."}, {"response": 256, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (15:12)", "body": "Wonderful France! Thanks, I was ROTFLOL! ;-)"}, {"response": 257, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "Thank you Dr. France. Since ROTFLOLing, bilateral drooling, and anglo turns of phrasing are included in your \"normal\" patterns of behaviour, I'm happy that I'll be able to continue these along with visits to chat rooms, etc.!;-)"}, {"response": 258, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (16:55)", "body": "'clears up on its own at death, leaving no distinguishing marks other than a certain smile' - hmmmm...its definitely chronic then? There could be plenty worse ways to go, I guess...... Thanks, France."}, {"response": 259, "author": "mpk", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (23:22)", "body": "Thank you, Dr. France for diagnosing what ails me recently...but I must agree with Kali that Meg Tilly, mother of Colin's beloved son, should have been the beneficiary of such a most important event in one's life. It seemed to me that \"they\" who put such a premium on privacy should be together!"}, {"response": 260, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (05:45)", "body": "Thank you, Marina. ;) Actually, France, I'm not much of a Firth-drooler. I just like playing with you guys and taking potshots at snooty men who don't really like Jane Austen - like CF! :::)"}, {"response": 261, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (08:57)", "body": "I am beginning to feel that there's some type of an actors' hierarchy involved with perhaps Shakespear at the top of the pyramid and period drama or Jane Austen at the bottom. An actor perhaps agrees to do Austen when there is no other choice?"}, {"response": 262, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (09:08)", "body": "] actors' hierarchy involved with perhaps Shakespear at the top of the pyramid and period drama or Jane Austen at the bottom. __ I hope not. But I can see how there might be some carried over distaste of the old style BBC literary adaptations and the associations that go along with them -- chiefly: low budget. But I don't know. Just guessing."}, {"response": 263, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (00:36)", "body": "And don't forget the fact that Austen, and most \"romantic\" period drama, is wimmin's territory...;)"}, {"response": 264, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (07:16)", "body": "Hullo, Kali! My above post re: CF engagement was not directed at your prior comment (Meg Tilly should've been the one...) which I agree with in principle. Some friends and I had such mixed reactions to the news that I was trying to put everything in a l arger perspective of (cosmic, ironic) humor."}, {"response": 265, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (08:34)", "body": "It strikes me as strange that romance is considered wimmin's territory and at the same time men continue to profess a desire for a strong relationship with wimmin , but have little interest in romance. I used to believe the reason for this w as that genuine romance, not syrupy cliche, was so difficult to create. However, whenever romance is created, men run; they don't attempt to imitate or analyze it. This seems to go against basic Darwinian principals."}, {"response": 266, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (12:47)", "body": "]However, whenever romance is created, men run; they don't attempt to imitate or analyze it. This seems to go against basic Darwinian principals. Actually, Elaine, I think Darwinian theory would predict that men would seek multiple partners and, therefore, would not tend to want to form romantic, long term relationships."}, {"response": 267, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "Yes. Four years is about right, according to a book about this. Only it's us. Women are wired to tire of partners for the sake of differentiation of the gene pool. Guys, they just have to spread around the seed as much as possible for the survival of spec ies."}, {"response": 268, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (14:12)", "body": "But, could not one spread around the seed more efficiently if they had the ability to create romance?"}, {"response": 269, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (14:48)", "body": "Elaine. Yes one would suppose that ability to create and keep up romance for a while at least, would permit access to wider ranges of the female population. But if they won't take the troble to practise... To Frances, LOL and I simply love that smile on the lips of a deceased addict"}, {"response": 270, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (15:18)", "body": "Several comments: Re men running from romance of the real kind: I've always thought women tend to be more hard-nosed than men about who they choose for partners, Men often seem to me to get hopelessly carried away by those they are attracted to. Re syrupy cliched romance: There's so much on TV, its not surprising lots of people think its the real thing, or don't know any other approaches. P&P goes against the norm and thats one of the reasons I love it. Re Darwin: From what I can gather, this is such a complex field to understand, and there are many differing theories. The theory that does seem to be accepted now is the idea of the 'selfish gene' - that organisms exist to pass on their genes. Hence the idea that ea ch sex on an instinctial level acts to ensure that there genes will get passed on. For humans this pattern has to accomodate the fact that our babies require many years of nuturing. So while the instinct for men is to spread the seed, it is also tempered y the requirement of ensuring that the children concieved are also are reared well for some years, otherwise the genes won't continue. Womens interst in getting their genes passed on requires the protection and support of the male. But there is evidence that widenning the gene pool is accomplished but women having the odd affair, which the non- biol father then helps to rear."}, {"response": 271, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (18:29)", "body": ". 'Womens interst in getting their genes passed on requires the protection and support of the male. But there is evidence that widenning the gene pool is accomplished but women having the odd affair, which the non- biol father then helps to rear.' LOL - that was a distracted and garbled ending. Let me try again. Women choose men who will support them for long enough to rear their children, because that is the best way of ensuring the woman's genes, hence their interest in lon term relationships. B ut this is tempered by the not uncommon action of women having the occasional affair, thus widenning the gene pool. In this case the offspring, if any, is supported by a (usually unknowing) non-biological father. So the society in general is mostly monogo ous, with exceptions built in. And I guess on top off all this is the influence of intellegence, and notions of civilization. I am not a biologist.....please excuse this rave if you know better!"}, {"response": 272, "author": "summit", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (19:38)", "body": "Pray excuse my entering this conversation, but as a \"romance\" writer (usually I write satire, as it happens) I have been happily surprised at the gentlemen who have requested my booklet this past two weeks. But then, the persons who frequent this conference are quite different from the norm, and to be commended for their Austen spiritedness, as well as interest in romance of a teazing sort."}, {"response": 273, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "Am I on your list yet Wendy?"}, {"response": 274, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (21:22)", "body": "Okay, France...I hear ya! ;)"}, {"response": 275, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (07:44)", "body": "]Am I on your list yet Wendy? My dear Miss Amy, Had you not even asked it was yours as a gift, duly yours as proprietress of this charming Spring tearoom and one in the honeymoon epilogue ! After all, one must show some token of gratitude for your commitment to P&P2 and us. Appreciatively, Wendy"}, {"response": 276, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (07:51)", "body": "P.S. The (summit) behind my name on posts here at Spring now accesses my true email account at AOL, instead of an apparent deadend at Netscape's innovations.com."}, {"response": 277, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (07:54)", "body": "I think that there are some men who at least have an intellectual curiousity about romance, but this seems to be the exception...more often a man will make a cute, disparaging remark and roll his eyes. On the other hand, the need for adventure and risk t aking more prevalent in men is generally accepted if not embrassed by women."}, {"response": 278, "author": "amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (08:14)", "body": "Wendy, I am in the honeymoon? Now I really can't wait. A chambermaid maybe? Better still, valet? Clergyman? Doctor? Third in 3some?"}, {"response": 279, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (08:21)", "body": "Looking at all this from a Jungian perspective, a number of men (represented partly in the arts, writers, etc.) have a highly developed anima or feminine side that allows them a more balanced perception and appreciation of wimmin's take on love, li fe, and the world. This is not the exclusive ability of homosexuals, BTW. Conversely, a number of wimmin have an animus percentage above average so they find socalled male activities and perceptions easier to join in and/or appreciate than wimmin with a different ratio built in. I think these men and wimmin provide a sort of buffer zone between the more extremely opposite segments of the human population, and I am grateful that many of them, male and female, become writers, etc., to show everyone else the possibilities of connexi on between the two sexes (rather than just the \"battle of the sexes\" we often hear about)."}, {"response": 280, "author": "amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (08:23)", "body": "Nicely put, France. Jung was onto something, a good many somethings, was he not?"}, {"response": 281, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (08:29)", "body": "Amy, this is an 1813 Austen romance, remember, so you are a very proper but convivial hostess of a Lake District restaurant Darcy and Lizzy frequent during their week's stay.."}, {"response": 282, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "]Third in 3some? Amy!"}, {"response": 283, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (15:40)", "body": "I was going to say go for it, Amy! Now I have to offer commiserations. Nicely put, France. I like what you say."}, {"response": 284, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (15:46)", "body": "France is smart - nice going France! :) --- Oh, come on, Myretta...;)"}, {"response": 285, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (07:53)", "body": "Gentle Readers: I've given some thought to Amy's comment above since yesterday and in her defense must say the following: a) it is only natural that we addicts of Darcy and P&P2 would want to be in Lizzy's place; b) my romance does contain explicit sex, which is why i t will not appear here; c) there is a part of us that want to enter their story in a permanant way, because as CF would say \"it got under our skin\"; for better or worse, we've been changed by it and this BB. Amy's dealt with all this longer and more creatively than any of us (with the archival exception of HC who's really been hooked awhile.) :-) While I cannot gratify a groupie concept, I think Lizzy & Darcy will titillate each other and many reade rs (after all, Darcy has done extensive reading of continental fiction & nonfiction so he's quite knowedgeable, and Lizzy was ever an independent person...) Of course, one hopes you will not skip over the lakes' descriptive passages but read with he patience of a judge every line I penned... ;-) Your humble servant, Wendy (Wendysum@aol.com)"}, {"response": 286, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (08:06)", "body": "Oh. what a tease."}, {"response": 287, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (08:33)", "body": "P.S. Afterthought: Knowing that some readers prefer even more old-fashioned romance, I can create a different sex-hinted-at-only honeymoon part for those who'd prefer that version."}, {"response": 288, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (12:10)", "body": "Oh, Wendy, now you have really piques my curiosity; please sign me up for the snogging, daggy version (ie; not the old-fashioned one). Here is my e-mail address; mari.topitzes@mfa.com. In addition, let me add that in such cases as this, it is, I believe, the established mode to express a sense of obligation for the efforts expended; thank you in advance for all of your efforts on our behalf, for as someone else posted, we DO know to whom we are indebted."}, {"response": 289, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "Or is that ''addicted'' ? :)"}, {"response": 290, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "Oh, Wendy, now you have really piques my curiosity; please sign me up for the snogging, daggy version (ie; not the old-fashioned one). Here is my e-mail address; mari.topitzes@mfa.com. In addition, let me add that in such cases as this, it is, I believe, the established mode to express a sense of obligation for the efforts expended; thank you in advance for all of your efforts on our behalf, for as someone else posted, we DO know to whom we are indebted."}, {"response": 291, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (15:48)", "body": "Sign me up too, Wendy. becka@interlog.com"}, {"response": 292, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (16:27)", "body": "Please add me to the list, Wendy....I'm dying to see what happened at the end of that carriage ride! Thanks! XBYK14A@Prodigy.com"}, {"response": 293, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "Wendy, notice the upsurge in book orders?"}, {"response": 294, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (21:23)", "body": "Wendy, did you receive my e-mail? I hope so because I just can't wait for my copy. I too would like the daggy version."}, {"response": 295, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "I can hear the ghost of Austen now- \"I am shocked and grieved\" at what is happening to my neoclassically self-controlled novel!\" ;-)"}, {"response": 296, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (23:43)", "body": "Cecily: I can hear the ghost of Austen now- \"I am shocked and grieved\" at what is happening to my neoclassically self-controlled novel!\" ;-) Get over it, Jane!"}, {"response": 297, "author": "panache", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (09:13)", "body": "Cheryl: You mean that Darcy and Lizzy's 200-year wait for their wedding night should be over? Well, perhaps that has been a trifle frustrating to our daggy Mr. Darcy, ever at the ready, and our curvaceous Miss Lizzy, whose banter may have become edgier over the decades... All right, go for it, Wendy!"}, {"response": 298, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (17:53)", "body": "Wow, that long? Are they vampires?"}, {"response": 299, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (08:50)", "body": "Merely characters from 1790s stuck in a 1995 miniseries ending in a post-marriage service carriage ride..."}, {"response": 300, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (08:58)", "body": "I hate to ask but What 1995 miniseries? (Reference to What).Otherwise I have to redisplay. How I hate redisplay."}, {"response": 301, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (10:00)", "body": "Three hundred posts! The heck with \"Intro\" and \"Help,\" this is the real heart of this Conference! Cheryl, as Drooler-in-Chief, aren't you proud? ;-)"}, {"response": 302, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (11:25)", "body": "Donna: A&E production of P&P2 was televised for several weeks in 1995 like a miniseries (sorry if I got your hopes up for another version) ;-)"}, {"response": 303, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (11:26)", "body": "Or was it 1996? More coffee, please."}, {"response": 304, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (11:58)", "body": "Sorry but Anna Cecily that is not what I meant. If you are a new person here, you would not know what RE: Response (#299) you were referring to because there is no Ref: to it."}, {"response": 305, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (13:46)", "body": "'Cheryl, as Drooler-in-Chief, aren't you proud? ;-)' I guess Cheryl hasn't answered because she's busy having some chocolate."}, {"response": 306, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (15:38)", "body": "Wendy: Another Daggy version here, too - SDeckerCPA@aol.com"}, {"response": 307, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:12)", "body": "No kidding. There's something seriously wrong with the world if the hormonally-driven topic doesn't have the highest volume of trade...but still, I don't think CF has looks good enough to be worth 306 drools..."}, {"response": 308, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:15)", "body": "] CF has looks good enough to be worth 306 drools... I haven't reread the whole topic, but I seem to remember a few off-topic drools..."}, {"response": 309, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:19)", "body": "Hey, Anna! And yes, you're right...there have been some off-topic drools...I'm just giving everyone a hard time! ;)"}, {"response": 310, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:29)", "body": "]I'm just giving everyone a hard time! ;) Kali!"}, {"response": 311, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:33)", "body": "What?! Why not? :)"}, {"response": 312, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:45)", "body": "Anne3: Three hundred posts! The heck with \"Intro\" and \"Help,\" this is the real heart of this Conference! Cheryl, as Drooler-in-Chief, aren't you proud? ;-) Ladies, ladies...I am but your humble servant, but I am pleased and proud to have led you, my troops, into the daggy battlefield and come out victorious with the prize of 312 drooling messages! Keep up the good work and let us push onward to 400! SRC = \" http://www.spring.com/~amy/gsmile.gif \"> Hilary: I guess Cheryl hasn't answered because she's busy having some chocolate. ...and it was good for me, too! ;-p"}, {"response": 313, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:48)", "body": "..and it was good for me, too! ;-p But, did you same me any?"}, {"response": 314, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:59)", "body": "Myretta, dear, come to Pemberley and find out! ;-)"}, {"response": 315, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "Kali: But C.F. as Darcy DOES look good enough for 300 drools (and counting). But I do whole heartedly agree with you that Firth as himself doesn't cut it. In fact, I saw those photos of him at TEP premier in L.A., and the looked pretty skanky. And who dresses him?"}, {"response": 316, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (19:58)", "body": "His mother?"}, {"response": 317, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (19:58)", "body": "Cheryl: What is the best time to check out Pemberly?"}, {"response": 318, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (20:29)", "body": "Sharon...early morning, PST, and 5-12, PST...though there are often people there at other times... I agree that the TEP premier photos were crappy, and that in spite of his usual skankiness, he makes the preemininent film Darcy. Still, having been listening to and engaging in the P&P2 BB Darcy drooling even before this topic got started here, and I've kinda been drooled out, ya know? ;)"}, {"response": 319, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (21:33)", "body": "I think he makes a cute Saint Nick."}, {"response": 320, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (23:41)", "body": "Kali: Still, having been listening to and engaging in the P&P2 BB Darcy drooling even before this topic got started here, and I've kinda been drooled out, ya know? ;) My dear niece, if you are drooled out, then by all means do not feel it incumbant upon yourself to continue to do so, but also please do not hinder others from enjoying the experience. *samooch* ;-)"}, {"response": 321, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (23:54)", "body": "Yes, I would of liked if he had delivered my Xmas presents....."}, {"response": 322, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (03:55)", "body": "I shan't, Auntie, I promise...but I imagine that this doesn't rule out a little good-humored razzing, does it? ;)"}, {"response": 323, "author": "sld", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (09:50)", "body": "Kali - a word of advice: Just take a break. It comes back! Believe me, I went for about a couple of months when I thought I had gotten it out of my system. No book, no P&P2 on the VCR..and then I came across this conference center. The Darcy drool factor is back in FULL FORCE."}, {"response": 324, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "Kali - just watched Valmont for the first time - CF is definitely worth drooling over!!"}, {"response": 325, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "Warning: Long Post Warning #2: Non-droolers kindly buzz off Attention all droolers: yesterday\ufffds Sunday Independent (British newspaper) had a long interview with Colin Firth. Here are some highlights: The Failure of Valmont : I dredge up a memory of a conversation in which he privately ad mitted to a sense of grievance. Had you not laid claim to the memory I\ufffdd probably seek to deny that,\" he says now. \"I can\ufffdt quite remember how I felt about it at that time. If you feel yourself marginalised slightly you can resent it and cherish it at the same time. I think you have a tendency to cling to the idea that you haven\ufffdt sold out, that you\ufffdre not mainstream because you\ufffdre too good to be mainstream. And at the same time you whinge about the fact that you\ufffdre not mainstream, privately o r otherwise. But it\ufffds never eaten into me because I have always been involved enough in something.\" P&P A publicist who worked on one of his films says that, before Darcy, \"you couldn\ufffdt give him away to the press. . . . The now-legendary story is that he hummed and haahed before accepting Mr. Darcy, acutely aware of the burden of expectat ion that would come with the role. He talks of a \"fear of success,\" how it\ufffds possible \"to gravitate towards things that are doomed.\" He did turn down roles in a couple of huge British films, but it speaks well of his judgement that the actors who accept d them have not necessarily prospered. . . . Firth approached the role of Darcy no differently from any other he\ufffds played. Ever since Judd in Another Country , he\ufffds been cast for his ability to keep it all in, not let it all hang out. \"I don\ufffdt fin d that I can define a character very well until I\ufffdve given him big problems to deal with. If Mr. Darcy wants to have sex with Elizabeth Bennet, or he wants to scream at somebody or he wants to leave the room but he\ufffds denying himself, you can create an in er struggle which cr eates a certain tension. Hopefully.\" Nostromo The novel is famously irreducible\ufffd\"I was almost resentful of how difficult it was to get through it,\" he says\ufffdbut for Firth the lead role basically came down to another study in humourlessness and withdrawal, another furtively dist urbed Englishman. So why play it? \"It was curiosity. I felt that there was an awful lot more to Gould than met the eye. I found myself in the strange position of doubting what Conrad said about him\ufffdthat the character had no sense of irony\ufffdand I wonder d whether that was a foreigner\ufffds perception of an Englishman. It would be quite possible for a man like Gould to have a very strong sense of irony and for it to be invisible to somebody from Poland.\" On a less cerebral level, he was attracted by the hor se-riding, the explosions and the steamship\ufffd\"a boy\ufffds own instinct actually to go out on the big adventure, a childhood sense of why I wanted to be an actor.\" Acting/Love Scenes/Jennifer Ehle One of the mantras he learned to repeate [at the Drama Centre, where he trained] was \"Make it more important to you.\" \"The actor,\" he explains, \"has got an awful lot of freedom to do a performance superficially, o r to go further with it. It\ufffds quite conceivable that you\ufffdll have an actor playing a scene in which his mother is dying who isn\ufffdt asking himself what that really would be like.\" . . . Later, in the bar, Firth is talking about his discovery of Caravaggio n Rome, and the transparent carnality of the relationship between the artist and some of his juvenile sitters. Well, Firth-watchers have been there too. Can a real-life subtext make the love scenes easier? \"You mean with Jennifer? No, I don\ufffdt think it did. I don\ufffdt know. It\ufffds impossible to know what it would have been like if things had been different. You can\ufffdt know. But I actually find that if you\ufffdre involved with an actress that you\ufffdre having to tell a love story with, it\ufffds more difficult. I do \ufffdt find it easy to draw on it. Your relationship, your feelings aren\ufffdt the same as those of the characters. She\ufffds not that person. And you\ufffdre not telling your own story. So I think you have to put all your own stuff aside completely and reconceive you r relationship as other people. So I think it stands in the way, to be honest.\" Fever Pitch/Pathology Fever Pitch is a delightful detour into comedy, of which he\ufffdd like to do more (\"I don\ufffdt often get the funny lines, it\ufffds true.\" Why not? \"No one\ufffds realised I can do comedy.\") The film has provided Firth with his most autobiographical role yet. There\ufffds a key speech where the narrator Paul tries to explain to his girlfriend why football makes him feel less rootless. \"That was what made the connection for me,\" says Firth, who, even more than Hornby, is not really from anywhere. \"That was the thing that struck me most when I read the book.\" Paul finds it easier to be emotional in the company of a thousand strangers on Arsenal\ufffds North Bank than in bed with his girlfriend. That pathology is echoed in Firth, who is \"awa re of the ironies of being on stage and being able to cope with feeling e"}, {"response": 326, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (17:33)", "body": "Photos, Anne3, did I hear you say photos? Amy; IS there a person who has agreed to scan things in for us to put into our BB?"}, {"response": 327, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (17:49)", "body": "Photos, Anne3, did I hear you say photos? Amy; IS there a person who has agreed to scan things in for us to put into our BB?"}, {"response": 328, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (18:45)", "body": "There is a copyright problem with many photos."}, {"response": 329, "author": "sld", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:08)", "body": "Good find, Anne!"}, {"response": 330, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (21:11)", "body": "\"he's been cast for his ability to keep it all in, not let it all hang out.\" Well, my goodness, this is not very consistant with our \"Daggy\" tread is it?"}, {"response": 331, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Anne3 ] \"he's been cast for his ability to keep it all in, not let it all hang out.\" Candace ] Well, my goodness, this is not very consistant with our \"Daggy\" tread is it? Surely the daggy question was Where does he keep it? There was never any question of Mr Darcy letting it all hang out was there?"}, {"response": 332, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (23:17)", "body": "Having seen Colin Firth in a number of movies other than \"P & P,\" I have become ever more convinced that he is definitely good-looking enough on his own, and is also an accomplished actor in the English tradition of \"keeping it all in.\" I thought he was very handsome in \"Nostromo\" and can't wait to see \"The English Patient.\" I'm afraid the drooling factor just increases with time!"}, {"response": 333, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (06:58)", "body": ""}, {"response": 334, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (08:39)", "body": "Susan, yea - He was cute in nostromo. I personaly liked the facial hair."}, {"response": 335, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (12:03)", "body": "Anne...thank you for sharing your find....the thought of photos out there that we can't see....it's too unbearable!"}, {"response": 336, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (12:15)", "body": "Does anyone know if there is a Colin Firth fan club anywhere...(I know everyone in this conference is his fan but I mean an official one)?"}, {"response": 337, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "Linda, check out the Firthlist. Who knows to whom to write now that Robin ha abdicated? They used to ask you to email telling why you like Colin, then you get on the email discussion list. There is a small voluntary fee. There has been some discussion of a non-net real fan club, but some members of the Firthlist oppose the move. Hang out for a while on this, Linda, someone will help with the current pointers."}, {"response": 338, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (13:20)", "body": "About the photos in the Independent article--there are four. The big one is a closeup, very strange in that his face is flatly inexpressive and unrevealing. It's shot against a ghastly yellow background which makes him look jaundiced to boot. The other s are from TEP, Nostromo and Fever Pitch. They are all new to me, but FP is the only one worth pining for. He looks cherubic and, well, adorable. (Excuse me . . . must find a handkerchief to mop my mouth with . . .)"}, {"response": 339, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "About the photos in the Independent article--there are four. The big one is a closeup, very strange in that his face is flatly inexpressive and unrevealing. It's shot against a ghastly yellow background which makes him look jaundiced to boot. The other s are from TEP, Nostromo and Fever Pitch. They are all new to me, but FP is the only one worth pining for. He looks cherubic and, well, adorable. (Excuse me . . . must go find a handkerchief to mop my mouth with . . .)"}, {"response": 340, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (13:28)", "body": "re 331: I missed the Golden Globes, but told my husband I would find out from this bb whether CF was there. He helpfully pointed out that I would surely find out, ahem, more details of how he was dressed than anyone needs to know."}, {"response": 341, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "Anne, thank you for posting those articles. Sounds like an interesting man to me. I can see how a real love affair with your co-star could make the work more difficult, rather than less."}, {"response": 342, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "Jane...as much as I searched and searched...I could not see him anywhere at the Globes..however, when The English Patient won for best picture....the Director thanked several people...I only heard one name...guess who?"}, {"response": 343, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:13)", "body": "Jane...as much as I searched and searched...I could not see him anywhere at the Globes..however, when The English Patient won for best picture....the Director thanked several people...I only heard one name...guess who?"}, {"response": 344, "author": "mpk", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (23:02)", "body": "I watched the Golden Globes JUST to see whether Colin was there...but I didn't see him at TEP table either; perhaps at the Oscars? My eyes kept darting back and forth as the camera panned into the crowd. Am I pathetic or what? Linda, have you checked out the Friends of Firth website?"}, {"response": 345, "author": "Adi", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (14:33)", "body": "marina, you are probably not as pathetic as I am: I also watched the Golden Globes JUST to see whether Colin was there but I watched it live and it was 3:00 in the morning here in Israel... I didn't saw him there either, BTW."}, {"response": 346, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (20:04)", "body": "Austen...are you really there in Israel...I love this WWW...it's wonderful to know that P&P has made an impact there....poor dear, having to wait until 3 a.m. Do you think that Colin may be at the Academy Awards...is it possible? That would certainly be my award, indeed!"}, {"response": 347, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (20:07)", "body": "Adi...just realized I typed the wrong name..I typed Austen (although not a bad name around here!). End of the day and I am brain dead...sorry!"}, {"response": 348, "author": "PaulaLovejoy", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "Hi, Somebody mentioned they had just watched Valmont for the first time. How did you get hold of it (is it at the video store?) Many thanks. Paula"}, {"response": 349, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (17:52)", "body": "Yes, I rented Valmont."}, {"response": 350, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (18:24)", "body": "Paula, I'm not sure where you are, but if you have a Just New Reeleases store near you, they often have a policy of finding a copy of videos like that for you.It's also for sale in some of the on-line video places, Like Movie Village."}, {"response": 351, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (18:50)", "body": "Thanks to Ann3 for most interesting article on Firth and LOL on that hanky mopping excuse. I do not blame you. If I had a new photo...and you have got four....lucky girl!"}, {"response": 352, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (00:20)", "body": "I\"ve also posted this in the \"Newbie\" section, but would somebody give me a real explanation of \"daggy?\" I've got the general idea; it just needs fleshing out."}, {"response": 353, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (00:25)", "body": "Susan: I've got the general idea; it just needs fleshing out . I think you've got the correct definition there, Susan! ;-)"}, {"response": 354, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (04:37)", "body": "Maybe the Dagmistress herself should explain...Hilary? ;)"}, {"response": 355, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (09:42)", "body": "Ann2: ]If I had a new photo...and you have got four....lucky girl! Now you can have them too, Ann (and everyone else). Check out the following site: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/3891/newadds.htm There is a compendium of P&P photos (with the emphasis on Darcy) at http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/3891/index.html Caveat: This site can be difficult to access--it took me three tries. And when you get in it's slow to load, because of all of the pictures. But patience will be rewarded. If you have time for only one, check out the Time Out photo from Fever P itch. It's enough to make a convert of even Kali."}, {"response": 356, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (11:18)", "body": "Time Out photo is \"great\",but what about his thighs in soccer shorts. Did anybody think of that?"}, {"response": 357, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (12:18)", "body": "Cheryl, in a dry tune of voice: I think you've got the correct definition there ,....oohhLOL repetedly and then Donna comments on thighs in soccer shorts. Did anybody think of that? Boy if ever I heard an understatement! Prodidgiously amused!! And to Ann3, heartfelt thanks for supplying pictures to a drooler in waiting."}, {"response": 358, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "You called? You are on the right track, Susan. But daggy is a multitask word,and should be used with care. Daggy is an Australianism. It derives from the word dag which is the term for the matted mess on a sheep's tail. Daggy has 3 main meanings: dirty or slovenly; lacking in style, or appearance; somewhat eccentric. The last two meanings are often be used affectionately. Someone can be 'a dag' too. The Dagmistress"}, {"response": 359, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (17:30)", "body": "Ooh! Just saw the Fever Pitch picture and ooh baby, ooh baby! You are right Donna, shorts would have been very nice, but this was not at all unpleasing...;-)"}, {"response": 360, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (17:41)", "body": "Thanks for the \"daggy\" explanation. It helps, but it seems like you guys have come up with your own definition. Sorry I missed out on the original usage."}, {"response": 361, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (18:51)", "body": "Susan: It helps, but it seems like you guys have come up with your own definition. It hasm shall we say, evolved over time...;-)"}, {"response": 362, "author": "panache", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "Anne3- WELL! Your photo renaissance of CF (sites above) could not have arrived at a more perfect time (Valentine's Day being close and all...). I searched the medicine cabinet for those gauze medical rolls to stop the rabid drooling but to no avail- wait, here 's an empty coffee cup ;-) Seriously, a couple of pix are gorgeous...time for a new computer wallpaper, or just sleep with one eye open watching my monitor permanently on the site and my internet provider bill going geometrically higher... ( What's hat, dear? Yes, Mommy's just looking at some world-class English football player again. Yes, he does look just the teensiest bit like Mr. Darcy. OK, yes, I'll read you a bedtime story; where were we, Pride and Prejudice, the proposal chapter? Allright , I'll be right there!)"}, {"response": 363, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (22:27)", "body": "LOL, Cecily!"}, {"response": 364, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (23:52)", "body": "Anne 3, thanks for these sites : IBM indeed (Sigh...) Cecily,"}, {"response": 365, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (00:13)", "body": "(I also posted this notice at Ramble.) To all fans of CF movies: I recently loaned my copy of \"Dutch Girls\" to Mari. If you want to see it let me know (email - H: kelder@miworld.net W: k_elder@fre.fsu.umd.edu), and I will ask Mari to send it to you when she has finished watching it. As l ong as I get it back eventually, I am most happy to share."}, {"response": 366, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (16:48)", "body": "Cecily....Right On!!!! (We're you peeking in my window?)"}, {"response": 367, "author": "Karen", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (16:55)", "body": "Oh Kathleen, please sign me up as soon as you can. Let me know if you want me to email you my vital statitics or just want me to post it here."}, {"response": 368, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "Continuing in my role as Firthwatcher to the Spring (how did this happen? surely there are Brit lurkers out there who can do a much more efficientl job)--a friend just sent me a copy of the Jan. 11 interview in the Sunday Telegraph, the one in which he s upposedly announced his engagement to Livia Giuggioli. Well, I've been through it twice, and this is all I can find on the subject: On my way out, I decide to risk spoiling the atmosphere by asking the question everyone has warned me I must no : is his current relationship the big one? Livia has taken to appearing in public sporting a large diamond ring and been spotted moving a vacuum-cleaner into his Hackney flat. Well, Colin, is this it? Firth flashes me a look that would do credit to Mr Darcy on finding himself at an unfashionable provincial ball confronted by Mrs Bennet at her most tactless. Then suddenly he defrosts. 'Yes,' he says. Well, call me an ostrich if you like, but personally I think this amounts to something le s than an announcement of impending nuptials. I am cancelling my inquiry into china patterns. (And will be sleeping much better I'm sure! :-) The article is illustrated with 3 photos by Peter Lindbergh, 2 of which appeared in Harper's Bazaar last spring. The third--Colin lying on his stomach on the beach (fully clothed however) is new. Maybe our friend who put up the other photos at the geoci ties site will be able to get hold of this one too. For another tantalizing tidbit from the interview, see \"Ayelet's Nonsense.\""}, {"response": 369, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:08)", "body": "] is his current relationship the big one? Livia has taken to appearing in public sporting a large diamond ring and been spotted moving a vacuum-cleaner into his Hackney flat. Well, Colin, is this it? Firth flashes me a look that would do credit to Mr Darcy on finding himself at an unfashionable provincial ball confronted by Mrs Bennet at her most tactless. Then suddenly he defrosts. 'Yes,' he says. either that or he's got an expensive housekeeper finally to tidy up... Well, call me an ostrich if you like, but personally I think this amounts to something les than an announcement of impending nuptials. or at least it makes one wonder how cranky CF can be when his plans (for privacy or anything) go awry...sounds temperamental to me, if talented ;-)"}, {"response": 370, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:52)", "body": "I think you're right, France. He still refers to the last one as the \"love of his life,\" and look what happened to her! ;("}, {"response": 371, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (08:05)", "body": "Mr. Firth should be admired from afar. Apparently, he bites if you get too close."}, {"response": 372, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "That's okay. He can come nibble on me any time he likes."}, {"response": 373, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (11:24)", "body": "But, first you will need to purchase a vacuum cleaner! One can only marvel at these modern-day appliances."}, {"response": 374, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (14:56)", "body": "Isn't that funny? Out of all the things she could be seen carting into his place, it had to be a vacuum. A domestic appliance? What kind of omen is this?!"}, {"response": 375, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (15:17)", "body": "It is rumored that his flat had not seen a vacuum since he first took up residence there several years ago. Anyone willing to clean a bachelor pad certainly deserves the bachelor as part of the prize!"}, {"response": 376, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (15:55)", "body": "''It is rumored that his flat had not seen a vacuum since he first took up residence there several years ago.'' But Elaine, what about this quote from the Tatler interview..... ''Colin torches a Marlboro Light and his froideur ebbs away as he pokes fun at the yellow press - and himself - rather engagingly , in that low, rasping voice. 'I've had people saying, 'Oh come on , you love it', but, what's fun about somebody taking pict ures through your window? It gives me the jitters. There was a picture of me buying a vaccuum cleaner, not something I am particularly ashamed of, but it does make you think twice about going out to buy bog-roll and bin-bags if you think you might end up on page two of the Sunday Mirror. So you think, I won't pick my nose in front of the living room window, or wear that horrible sweatshirt to Marks and Spencer.' He laughs, devastatingly. Odd. My legs appear to be tur ning to jelly.'' Hmmmmm... what other use could they have for two vacuums? And what, pray tell, are bin-bags and bog-roll?"}, {"response": 377, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:21)", "body": "Mari: And what, pray tell, are bin-bags and bog-roll? Bin-bags are trash bags--trash cans are called dust bins in England! Bog-rolls I'm not sure, I think they're probably toilet paper. What's wrong, however, with buying either? I think it's rather endearing that a bachelor would do his own everyday shopp ing and they are necessities! Anne3: He can come nibble on me any time he likes! LOL - Ditto!!"}, {"response": 378, "author": "jane", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (17:53)", "body": "Anne3, I also was sent the Sunday Telegraph article by a dear friend who understands my interest in the subject. She has also sent me articles on Regency gardening inspired by Austen-mania, etc. How nice to have friends. I had no idea when I read it that it was supposed to be a substantive announcement. Anyway, if he said, no, she's not the one, that would be the end of that, and who would vacuum?"}, {"response": 379, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "The nibbling thing: Yes, Anne3, even biting would probably be permitted! His comment about the press makes me wonder if that's what was the bee in his bonnet over being asked about Livia. He probably would like to keep some things about his private life private, but I'd say he's out of luck. As for me, I'll take all the pictures I can get. And Inko, thanks for the definitions of bin-bags and bog-rolls. Inquiring minds wanted to know."}, {"response": 380, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "Anne3 or Jane: I'd love to see the whole Telegraph article! It's not on the FOF site--can either of you put it in here?? It's not on the electronic Telegraph, because I searched that with no luck!! I don't think they put their magazine articles on the net."}, {"response": 381, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (22:33)", "body": "Inko, I'd be happy to put in the interview, but I have to defer to our gracious hosts here at the Spring on this one--there may be copyright issues involved. But if you e-mail me with your snail mail address, I'll send you a copy."}, {"response": 382, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (22:52)", "body": "defer to our ... hosts here Anne, I guess I would rather leave the article business to the FoF page. They usually put things up in fairly short order. You might want to contact Carol and see if she has the copy yet."}, {"response": 383, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:51)", "body": "What other use could they have for two vacuums? ....The first vacuum was immediately lost under dissolving pizza boxes and undetected bog rolls. Vacuums seem to play a key roll in Mr. Firth's publicity."}, {"response": 384, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (19:28)", "body": "This is stupid but I'm writing it anyway: this week has been so bad I have literally gotten the start of an ulcer; I came here to \"lighten up\" my mood and found that we'll be drooling , etc., outside the house, so to speak (kind of like a smoker going ou tside) from now on. This depressed me (anything would at this point!) for some weird reason, though Amy's need to PGify her BB again is doubtless necessary, given some of our recent remarks (including yours truly) of an astonishingly \"dagger\" nature. B t then, I'm never at ease around \"remodeling\" environments. (Maybe a week's hiatus from Spring will calm the gastric flow and I can return in jollier, more creative frame of mind.) Anyhow, good luck, ye carpenters, painters, and writers of Regency!"}, {"response": 385, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (23:16)", "body": "I share some of your concern France, but agree with Amy that this needed. And I kinda like change...everytime I log on there's something new to pique my interest. Like to day, for instance, I really appreciate this white background to write in, and Amy, is this the blue blankie fluff from the WNO? I like it, much lighter and pleasing to the eye. Can't wait to see what things will look like tomorrow! Change is Good!"}, {"response": 386, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "Gosh...did that sound too Pollyannish? :-)"}, {"response": 387, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (23:57)", "body": "A little Pollyannish, but not too. Thanks. No, the blankie fuzz is a little more cyan and blurred. This is spilled dill weed."}, {"response": 388, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (00:57)", "body": "Very refreshing, love the background !"}, {"response": 389, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (02:30)", "body": "Amy: This is spilled dill weed. Gosh, my countertop looks nothing like this when I spill dill weed...;-)"}, {"response": 390, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (05:06)", "body": "Spilled dill weed. Right. And that really was you growling on Joan's GRRRR graphic...;)"}, {"response": 391, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (06:23)", "body": "This is a representation of spilled dill weed. It really is me growling."}, {"response": 392, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Dec 27, 2000 (04:03)", "body": "marker. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 30, "subject": "Problems with P&P0", "response_count": 22, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (19:34)", "body": "Kali, I agree with you regarding P&P0. I read in a video guide book that gave P&P0 and P&P1 five out of six stars and P&P2 got six out of six stars. I cannot agree with the rating for P&P0. The liberties taken in the plot line (in P&P0) really strained me. Though I didn't see Demi Moore's Scarlet Letter, I often think about the reviews I read on it when I think back on P&P0. The performance were good but they should have called it First Impressions or something other than P&P. Wickham was introduced in the beginning of the plot. Only one Bingley sister is portrayed. And Lady Catherine being portrayed in a pleasant light. . shall this be endured!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "mich", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (21:49)", "body": "So much story line is lost in P&P0 I wonder they called it a Jane Austin adaptation. I watched it after reading the book and seeing P&P2 so maybe my expectations were too high. Besides what Karen has mentioned I thought the Lydia/Wickhem thing was glossed over. It didn't seem like such a big deal in P&P0. It pales in comparison to both P&P1 & 2."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (22:11)", "body": "There was also no visit to Pemberley, no Georgiana-so Lizzy changed her mind on Wickham thing alone, and Mr Collins, what they did to Mr Collins!!!-He wasn't a clergyman anymore... Also, at the end, they show Mary \"flirting\" for want of a better word with some flute playing gentleman, and Kitty w/ an officer, so the implication is they will get married, too. And the scene with Lady C. telling Lizzy she could take all Darcy's money away if he married Lizzie or soomething like that, and then in fact, being agreed w/Darcy on his choice! Ugh!!!!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (23:19)", "body": "Marsha, that sound HORRIBLE! but is it certain, absoulutly certain? no visit at Pemberly? No Georgiana? and Mr. Collins isn't a clergyman?Shocking!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (23:46)", "body": "\"Mr. Collins isn't a clergyman?\" I do not think the P&P0 script writers thought the 20th viewers would understand the dependency of a clergyman on his benefactor or the 'giving' of pastorates as a favors so they changed both Wickham's story of mistreatment and Mr. Collins' career. And they only had about 90 minutes(?) to tell the story so they had to cut savagely. I was so disappointed when I first saw the movie, but it does grow on you after a while. (except Lady Catherine as a clever nice person instead of a stupid bad one - that never becomes pallitable!)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (23:48)", "body": "How about Col. Fitz in a kilt?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:32)", "body": "I'm a huge Greer Garson fan, and I must say that even though it isn't a faithful adaptation, I've always had a soft spot for P&P0. I've read some bios of Aldous Huxley where his basic view was that the studio didn't give a fig for the book, so he tried to keep as much integrity as he could. Does anyone else like Garson's performance as Lizzie? I thought she was quite arch & charming -- certainly not as multidimensional as JE, but I thought her musical laugh went a long way to making her Lizzie very ple sant."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (14:00)", "body": "Yes, I thought Garson WAS not bad as Lizzie, but that dress!!! (now I sound like Caroline) And didn't Mr Collins look much older than \"young man\" described by Austen? What about Darcy-am I right, or is it only my nightmare that he didn't say his famous line about \"not handsome enough to tempt me?\" What about the relationship between Mr and Mrs Bennet-they seemed to be much fonder of each other then should be... Oh well. The lady who plays Lady Catherine is Edna May Oliver, and since I am an old movies fan I've seen her in some other movies and she always plays the starchy character with nice heart (e.g. the Nurse in \"Romeo and Juliet\" w/ Leslie Howard, she also has a bit in \"stagecoach' as the banker's straight-laced wife). If they didn't spoil it at the end, about her being nice, I thought she would have made a successfully domineering Lady C."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (14:05)", "body": "I loved Ann Rutherford as Lydia...flighty and charming as hell...she played it to the hilt. A refreshing change from Careen O'Hara."}, {"response": 10, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (16:28)", "body": "Marsha - you are right. Instead of the \"not handsome enough to tempt me\" line, I believe Olivier makes some comment that \"he's in no mood to tolerate the middle classes at play\" or something to that effect. Poor Greer. She did so many costume movies she got thorougly sick of bustles. I noticed that someone had posted before that she was 37 when she made P&P0 in 1940, but she was actually only 27. Only one year older than JE!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (08:25)", "body": "Two conflicting points: 1) I loved P&P0 when I first saw it years ago as a girl mainly because it was the only P&P around on film and it reminded me a bit of LITTLE WOMEN then also; 2) Lawrence Olivier was very young and handsome then, but he was preferable to me in WUTHERING HEIGHTS (I like 'em moody and passionate, I guess)!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (08:39)", "body": "I think Greer was disappointed not to get the lead in Gone With The Wind and made a fetching Scarlett in P&P0. The costuming was also appropriate and Olivier was little more than a stick figure waiting for Scarlett to say yes, simply one of many beaus at Tara. Poor Olivier, it's a wonder he ever consented to visit the colonies again."}, {"response": 13, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (11:41)", "body": "Garson had said very candidly that the only reason Olivier did the film was to finance his theatrical ventures in Britain. He didn't care a fig about the film, which surprised her."}, {"response": 14, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (00:57)", "body": "Truly, in my first and only viewing, I'm so disappointed. The plot does not come close to JA's novel. EEyeikks..Eehrie to think Lady C in with Darcy to get him marrried. The worst? Greer Garson, sorry to those who love her performance, is unbelievable. What is this, during the first proposal? Snobbish? Not very vexed, her mood inappropriatly haughty and distant. She is crying at what Miss Bingley tells her? Rubbish. What about Olivier, sweet as caramel and leaning dramatically over her. Actually, I prefe his performance altough overdone, not the taciturn nor almost inhebited type. Typical melo-comical Hollywood of the day. Will rewatch and maybe will become acclimated to it..."}, {"response": 15, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (16:38)", "body": "Well, MGM was never known as a serious place to remake classics. You kind of have to look to David O. Selznick for that. MGM's speciality was more musicals and \"big event\" productions like GRAND HOTEL and THE GOOD EARTH."}, {"response": 16, "author": "cat", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (13:53)", "body": "They also made Jane sort of flighty and I hate to say it silly. They made Lady Catherine actually WANT mr.Darcy and Lizzy to be married. As Oliver sai as Darcy\"...she enjoys a bit of rudeness and finds it refreshing...\"."}, {"response": 17, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (18:51)", "body": "I did think though that the actress who played Miss Bingley did a great job. Almost as good as Anna Chancellor."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (04:15)", "body": "Selznick? Oh, no...GWTW and King Kong weren't over-the-top, were they? ;) Margaret Mitchell had a heart attack when she saw the Twelve Oaks set..."}, {"response": 19, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (11:24)", "body": "Even so, he did pretty credible adapations of DAVID COPPERFIELD and INTERMEZZO. He did have a love of literature, and was very adamant about not deviating too much from the books he had read as a boy. And I hate to say it, but he was probably much more faithful to GWTW than another Hollywood producer would have been. Can you imagine what an Irwin Allen or Joel Silver might have done?! All things said, I wish that Thalberg had made GWTW. There was a man with class (sigh)."}, {"response": 20, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (16:31)", "body": "Re 17:19 When Miss Bingley delivers the following line : \"a certain something in her air...\" the resemblance with Chancelor's voice and performance is quite striking"}, {"response": 21, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (22:51)", "body": "Yes, I noticed that too! The two actresses are really remarkably similar. And I thought the Miss Bingley of P&P0 did one heck of a job."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:29)", "body": "I liked the parrot...that was a very Austen-film-adaptation kind of comic-relief which I thought was very fitting and rather hilarious! I don't know, maybe parrots are just funny...did you guys like the parrot bit at Mrs. Jennings' townhouse in S&S ? In Emma Thompson's film diary/screenplay book she seems quite pleased with herself over that little addition...;) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 31, "subject": "The adaptation", "response_count": 156, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (16:27)", "body": "Ever notice that Davies likes to borrow tricks from JA? Example. He put in some foreshaddowing that Austen did not include. At the Inn at Lambton the morning when they are about to discuss going to Pemberley, Lizzy says, I think I should be quite happy to stay my whole life in Derbyshire."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (17:03)", "body": "Yeah, I caught that Amy. Kind of ironic, as I'm sure Lizzy was saying it to keep her uncle and aunt happy, and not because she meant it...yet! ;)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Saman", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (17:04)", "body": "Another example of foreshadowing - Mrs Gardiner in the carriage driving to Pemberley after Mr Gardiner comments that the mistress of Pemberley \"will have to put up with a great deal\": Well she's not likely to be someone we know\". I hate to think that there are people who watched P&P2 without knowing the story who would have missed out on all these clues. Didn't CF say in the \"Making of P&P\" that the producer spoiled the story for him by telling him that Darcy and Lizzie get married, because he didn't know that that's what happened!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (20:09)", "body": "Davies also takes dialog from scenes not in the book and brings it in to other scenes. Such as Jane and Lizzie's first chat in Jane's bedroom. Lizzie actually makes the comment about Jane being \"five times as pretty as every other woman in the room\" is during there garden conversation in the novel. Georgiana makes a comment on how she would love to have a sister at the Inn at Lambton. I know there are more so I'll have to watch my tapes again."}, {"response": 5, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (20:21)", "body": "One big change from the novel, one that involves a scene we all go soft over, is the piano scene at Pemberley -- this did not occur in the book. By having an after dinner scene, we get to have everyone around the piano, etc. Also, the music keeps the conversation in the background, so the \"look\" fits in better. [In the novel JA has Darcy & Elizabeth meet by accident at Pemberley; Darcy brings Georgiana to the inn the next day; the day after that is a visit paid by Mrs Gardiner & Elizabeth to Georgiana (Mr G was fishing w/ some of the gentlemen); the last day in Lambton, when Darcy finds Elizabeth alone, was the intended day for the dinner party at Pemberley.] A nice change -- would not have missed the \"look\" for the world."}, {"response": 6, "author": "mich", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (21:38)", "body": "JA ties up the story a bit more in the end but what a painful task it must have been to leave out portions of the book. I long for the day after the second proposal. The smoldering that must have been going on when they were the only ones who knew about their engagement. With so much build up just a bit more of the acknowledged lovers pls.."}, {"response": 7, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (21:39)", "body": "Darcy: (I am sure others will have more and better things to add on this subject.) There was so much added to give dimension to his character. And Firth's delivery of JA's lines made them more consistent with a man of feeling than any reading I had been able to give them. For example, his cold, formal inquiries after the Bennet family health - finally I see a man \"in love\" and struggling to think of something to say. And they added the great scenes of the elopement, Darcy's efforts to find Wickham and Lydia in London, the wedding and other events we only learn about in letters in the novel."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (09:13)", "body": "I noticed something new the last time I watched P&P2. At the Netherfield Ball, Mary speaks to a servant, then clutches her music. Next, we see that same servant speak to Mr. Bingley, who gets up and asks for musical entertainment. Mary rushes to the pianoforte (or fortepiano, I missed that discussion, so I don't know the difference) and Mr. Bingley says, \"Miss Mary Bennet, you have anticipated me.\" (may not be the exact words)."}, {"response": 9, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:27)", "body": "Did Jane ever say in the book that Darcy \"might improve upon closer acquaintance\" or was this a Davis thing?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:40)", "body": "\"Improve\" and \"improvement\" are words she uses a lot, referring to people, houses and property. I searched for it one time for some forgotten reason. I can look later, maybe tonight, Amy. But I have a feeling she probably says just \"improves on acquaintance.\" Amy"}, {"response": 11, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (16:23)", "body": "](Amy): she probably says just \"improves on acquaintance.\" Indeed, Elizabeth's words are \"But I think Mr. Darcy improves on acquaintance.\" This is in response to a comment from Wickham that Col Fitzwilliam's manners are very different from Darcy's. Elizabeth is trying to rile Wickham up a bit, I believe, now that she knows the truth about his dealings w/ Darcy. Another of her lines from this conversation is \"In essentials, I believe, he is very much what he ever was.\" Capital, capital!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (18:47)", "body": "Didn't Jane say something smiliar early on, to the effect that: \"Perhaps Mr. Darcy will improve upon closer acquaintance?\" Or have I just attended too many Christmas parties this week?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (20:48)", "body": "Yes she did but, I don't think she said this in the book."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (20:58)", "body": "One thing I noticed in the adaptation was Davies' sly humor. When Col. Fitzwilliam first sits down in Hunsford and says to Lizzie \"I've heard much about you and none of the praise has been exaggerated\" Lizzie answers \"I can well believe that; Mr. Darcy is my severest critic.\" I always think that Lizzie believes there was no praise, and therefore it couldn't be exaggerated. I like the play on words there. I also like the way Davies put in the talks between Jane and Lizzie in their bedrooms to cover material that is only \"thought\" by Lizzie in the book. And I particularly liked the scene (while Lizzie was reading Darcy's letter) of Bingley sitting in a very low chair and everybody else talking down at him. It makes him out to be rather weak-willed, which is what she thinks in the book, without ever having to put that into words."}, {"response": 15, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (15:48)", "body": "That low-angle shot of Bingley being \"persuaded\" is a classic. I also love the \"Darcy cam\" which shows us his contemptuous P.O.V. of those \"simple country\" gatherings!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (19:16)", "body": "Anybody notice how the camera becomes the gaze of Mrs Gardiner just as she leaves the miniature case at Pemberley. She shifts her attention from Wickham to Darcy based on Mrs Reynold's information. It reminds me of a shot in The Natural. Near the beginning, in the set-up, when the Lady in Black changes her target from the Whammer (fictional Babe Ruth) to Roy Hobbs, the hero. In this case it's a close up of her eyes shifting their focus, then the camera pans from the Whammer to Roy at just the same speed shown in the close up."}, {"response": 17, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (13:17)", "body": "It's funny, because in fiction these days, you're always cautioned to NEVER THE CHANGE THE P.O.V. . This might confuse those poor, befuddled readers. Don't tell Dickens or Austen though. They seemed to employ the multiple P.O.V. well enough. . ."}, {"response": 18, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (15:59)", "body": "Austen and Dickens did have to write for people who had both their IQs and their attention spans permanently lowered by TV."}, {"response": 19, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (17:09)", "body": "Very true. They didn't have modern distractions like the Internet to contend with."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (17:11)", "body": "Tolstoy even shifts the POV to a dog in Anna Karenina."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (18:02)", "body": "I can't help but wondering what Mr. (?) Davies would think of all this. Is he a Yank or Brit? Can we find him and ask him questions in a chat room sometime? He would probably get a big kick out of this. Or think we are all whacko's. Dina"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (18:42)", "body": "Davies is English, Dina. I have wondered too what he and Birtwistle and the gang would think of this. Maybe they know. I'd be honored."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Kathy", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (21:39)", "body": "OK, what about the SCREAM. You know what I mean, when Darcy is writing his letter to Elizabeth. At one point, relating his story about Wickham, he leans back in his chair in anguish -- and you hear faint screaming the in background! Like a crazy woman or something. I'm not sure what this is supposed to be. Maybe it is a representation of the terrible demonous thoughts that Darcy had to conjure up to write the tale of his dealings with Wickham. Or maybe Lady Catherine is mad, off screaming in her room .."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (01:11)", "body": "Kathy, my friend! I'm so glad you asked about the scream! It troubled me too, every time I heard it and we discussed it on the old BB. The concensus was that it was most likely peacocks (which are rampant on old English estates) or foxes (also frequent inhabitants). I suggested at the time that perhaps it was Lady C, flogging Mr. Collins (much to his delight!) but the others thought not..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (11:06)", "body": "I know the source of the scream! I was watching the show with headphones on, and it's birds shrieking in the BG. It's a very WUTHERING HEIGHTS sort of sound."}, {"response": 26, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (11:33)", "body": "Actually, Austen doesn't shift point of view that often -- we mainly stay firmly with the heroine, and only occasionally nip of to witness a chat between Darcy and Miss Bingley, or between poor Miss Taylor and George Knightley."}, {"response": 27, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (15:54)", "body": "She does shift between the third and first person though, which today is a shooting offense (if certain writing teachers are to be believed)."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Saman", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (17:37)", "body": "Thank you so much for explaining the SCREAM - I was finding it most vexing - it sounded like one of Lady C's maids had finally gone over the edge."}, {"response": 29, "author": "cat", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (13:33)", "body": "What you guys said before about Davies is a really cool idea! How about Colin Firth, Jennifer Ehle, Susana Harkar, and Crispin Carter, I think thats his name all join in for an evening at Pemberley? If you also want to be absolutley mortified, introduce them to the Spring they may come across a certain subject that involves drooling!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (15:01)", "body": "Yes Cat, I was just thinking about that the other day.I would be totally mortified so I will curtail my excessive drooling."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (00:59)", "body": "Donna: \" I was just thinking about that the other day.I would be totally mortified so I will curtail my excessive drooling.\" Oh Donna, please don't do that! The chances of him showing up here are remote at best. Besides, I feel almost certain that he would simply say, \"I would by no means suspend any pleasure of yours.\""}, {"response": 32, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (09:51)", "body": "Has anyone noticed that when Darcy & Bingley return to the Pemberly drawing room after having seen Lizzy & the Gardiners off after dinner, that they seem to have lost Georgiana? She'd been with them downstairs, saying goodbye. It's too bad because I wonder how she would have reacted to Darcy's statement later in that scene that he considered Elizabeth to be one of the handsomest women of his acquaintance. Would she have suspected that something was up, or was she too young & inexperiencec? We'll never know."}, {"response": 33, "author": "cat", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (18:42)", "body": "Could there be any way we could invite them to an evening at Pemberley?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (21:01)", "body": "\"Could there be any way we could invite them to an evening at Pemberley? ' \"Them\" being CF ect.? I fear it would be most unlikely - isn't CF the one who doesn't even own a television set?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (21:07)", "body": "Yes he is the one, but he might own a computer Joan, you never know. I just read somewhere that Gena Davis husband goes into chat rooms under a different name and talks about his/her movies. So, we really don't know who we are talking with."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (23:22)", "body": "Anne3 ] Would she have suspected that something was up? I think the way Georgiana looked at Lizzy and Darcy after 'the look' indicated she already knew something was up. Maybe she had had enough of the sisters Bingley by then and shot through."}, {"response": 37, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (11:21)", "body": "Who else saw \"the Look\" BTW? Did Miss Bingley or Mrs. Gardiner? Lizzy & Darcy weren't being none too subtle in the way they looked at each other, but I can't remember how everyone in the room was positioned. Amy?"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (15:18)", "body": "Amy2: \"Who else saw \"the Look\" BTW?\" Good question...I feel sure that Miss Bingley and Mrs. Hurst saw it, they had positioned themselves directly opposite Darcy (or so it seemed), and Georgiana, of course. I believe that Mr. Gardiner would have been the only one besides Darcy in the correct position to see Lizzy's returning gaze. \" Lizzy & Darcy weren't being none too subtle in the way they looked at each other\" No they weren't, were they? Ain't it great? :-)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (16:17)", "body": "A line I have come to love is Darcy's one-syllable response when Miss Bingley starts in on Elizabeth the morning after she and the Gardners had left the country. He seems aroused from deep thought and utters \"What?\" in a tone that implies anger, indignation, and distraction. He immediately leaves the room, not bothering any explanation or further reply. Miss Bingley as at last irritated him beyond even cold civility. Wow!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (16:29)", "body": "PS - and I love THE LOOK. I would liked to have seen every face in the room as they too saw THE LOOK. Except Mr. Hurst, of course. I would even enjoy a quick rewrite of the Bingly-Jane resolution where Bingly confronts Darcy about 'THE LOOK', and Darcy confesses all. Bingley jumps on his horse at Pemberly instead of Nettherfield and rides all the way to Longborne, overtaking the Gardner's carriage but too exhuberant to notice them. They arrive at Longborne a day later to find Jane and Bingley already engaged... Or perhaps, he considers himself a concerned party and goes to London with Darcy to help root out the foolish little sister and her rotten lover. They could be Redford and Newman, male-bonding during a 'town adventure', laughing their way through the sorrier side of London. Ah, but JA did not write male-bonding adventure stories, did she? Xmas eve-eve flights of fancy."}, {"response": 41, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (16:51)", "body": "I must say I _definitely_ appreciated the lack of subtlety in \"The Look\" myself!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (19:41)", "body": "\"I must say I _definitely_ appreciated the lack of subtlety in \"The Look\" myself!' As far as L & D were concerned, thre was no need for subtlety - they were alone in the room. :-)"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (22:51)", "body": "But did Lizzy really return the look? In scene later that night, when Darcy walks through his darkened house to once again breathe the same air she breathed, he still seems unsure about her feelings. And in the end of the book he says that it was not until Lady C. told him of her conversation with Lizzy that his doubts were ended. I don't think he was certain of her until long after the Look."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (00:12)", "body": "] I don't think he was certain of her until long after the Look. ____ Or maybe he had a strong feeling the affection was becoming more mutual, but he feared he could no longer trust his feelings?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (00:32)", "body": "\"But did Lizzy really return the look?' Indeed - we saw that she did, but after the reaming-out that Lizzie had given him in Hunsford, Darcy was not at all certain of her, as we can see as he reviews that moment in his mind after the fact, and he sees an ambiguous expression, rather than the actual expression that we all witnessed as \"innocent bystanders\"."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (00:45)", "body": "] he sees an ambiguous expression, rather than the actual expression that we all witnessed as \"innocent bystanders\". Is it really a different shot, Joan? I will have to look. Confession time: have not watched it in months."}, {"response": 47, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (02:13)", "body": "\"Is it really a different shot?' Quite different - an excellent excuse to look at each again. :-)"}, {"response": 48, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (10:43)", "body": "Here's my theory, tho' you may not like it: I think The Look was great -- incredibly romantic, and that's why Davies put it there, for us, the viewing audience. But it's not in Austen, and the story that unfolds afterward _is_ Austen's. Maybe this explains the big of cognitive dissonance we're having trying to reconcile two people staring at each other like they want to get married THAT SECOND, to Darcy later telling Lizzie he had to wait for Aunt C.'s reaction."}, {"response": 49, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (11:50)", "body": "Amy2 - you are right that the look was not in the book. But I have no trouble reconciling THE LOOK to what was in the book. Darcy assumed that she would accept him the first time and was extremely pained by her refusal. He would need more than THE LOOK to make another assumption like that. He could decide, on reflection, that her side of the look only meant sympathy, understanding, and kindness for him and for Georgiana at the moment."}, {"response": 50, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (15:12)", "body": "I guess I read a little more into it than that. Without overstepping the PG13 bounds of this board, Lizzy & Darcy at that moment seemed like two people who would have very little trouble heading upstairs and uh. . playing whist, y'know?"}, {"response": 51, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (17:27)", "body": "Amy2 - I agree. They looked deeply and passionately in love at that moment. What I am thinking is that afterwards - when he reflected on both THE LOOK and THE REFUSAL and her discomfort when he visited with Bingley at Longborne - he could have easily begun to think he had read too much into it - that the passion he thought he had seen in her eyes was only a reflection of his own. I am only trying to reconcile THE LOOK, which I love but was not in the book, with the irony of Lady Catherine helping to bring them together which I also love and which was in both the book and P&P2. I want to keep them both. Merry Xmas, Amy2."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (19:19)", "body": "Joan, too - there were two looks that Lizzie gave Darcy; the first was when she looked up from turning the page of music - sort of ambiguous, tentative, not sure of what she would see (that's the one Darcy sees in his review later on) and then, when she sees his is looking at her with a slight smile, she returns with a smile of her own. At that point, today, they'd have gone off to be alone somewhere. But in 1812, they couldn't and Darcy was still unsure of her feelings, while she thought he'd be too pr ud to propose twice."}, {"response": 53, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (20:38)", "body": "\"he could have easily begun to think he had read too much into it - that the passion he thought he had seen in her eyes was only a reflection of his own. ' Exactly - even without a Lady C. in the mix. It would take more than one encouraging look to overcome the effects of Lizzie's strong words upon his forst proposal. \"You have said quite enough madam. I perfectly comprehend your feelings.\" Not much has yet happened to cause her to change her opinions. And he is still the one who has interfered between Mr. Bingley and Jane. It seems that he has this in mind, too - do you recall as L & D walk together when he asks permission to introduce her to his sister, and he mentions with some trepidation that Mr. Bingley and his sisters are among the party - after which there is an uncomfortable little pause, followed by Lizzie just saying \"Oh\" - they are both thinking of his role in the Bingley/Jane usiness."}, {"response": 54, "author": "panache", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (10:44)", "body": "RE: Response 25 of 53: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (11:06) * 1 lines I know the source of the scream! I was watching the show with headphones on, and it's birds shrieking in the BG. It's a very WUTHERING HEIGHTS sort of sound. I highly recommend listening to all of P&P2 with headphones on. You pick up all manner of background and vocal items and nuances otherwise missed. Ex., background chat at parties & balls; low-mike comments by leads, such as Darcy & Lizzie out on Pemberly patio just starting to converse together; even background sounds that, due to the closed environment of the headset, make you feel like you're right there with, say, Darcy in splashing tub or pond, or next to him as his fingers tweak out the sizzling ca dle after hours of letter-writing his beloved... (if you watch this way at, say, the wee hours when others are abed, the only embarrassment is the occasional comment you find yourself saying outloud as you \"join in\" with the soundtrack, a sort of karaoke-script overlay, if you know what I mean!) ;-)"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (16:53)", "body": "Karaoke P&P. Sounds great."}, {"response": 56, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (00:59)", "body": "My first acknowledged LOL, what will you think of next!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (01:19)", "body": "I'm up. I'll see ya there Amy."}, {"response": 58, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (22:47)", "body": "Thanks for the X-mas greeting, Kendall! I too would like to be able to reconcile The Look with the remainder of Austen's plot -- I think you've come as close as any human can. But it just seems to me that after these two have exchanged this look that says, \"Take me, I'm yours!\" it's very odd to then dither about and have to depend upon Lady C. \"doing good\" to secure his own wishes. But perhaps you are right -- he might have felt he had to wrap up the Jane/Bingley affair before straightening out his own Yes, I have watched all of P&P2 with headphones on -- the Foley and backgrounds are great!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (14:43)", "body": "Ahh, yes. The difficulty of a movie version is in trying to convey all that the novel tells us about the thoughts & feelings of the characters, and in a limited number of minutes. The LOOK as such probably never occurred in the novel, at least it is not described. Elizabeth's feelings were still in a state of flux when she and Mrs Gardiner visited Georgiana at Pemberley (the evening visit never occurred). But the LOOK in the movie lets us see that our heroine and hero have reached a mutual attraction, even though Elizabeth has not yet disclosed this to anybody. Lydia's elopement would convince Elizabeth that Darcy was lost forever, and maybe Darcy didn't want to assume that she would have changed her mind until the Jane/Bingley match was made. Even in the book I do not think that Lady C's interference was absolutely necessary to bring E & D together, but it helped speed things up. (And it gave us more reason to dislike the snob!)"}, {"response": 60, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (18:25)", "body": "It seems that Austen was struggling to find a moral message in Lady Catherin's interference at the end of the book: Lizzy asks: \"For what becomes of the moral, if our comfort springs from a breach of promise? (Lydia's thoughtlessness in betraying Darcy's secret). To which Darcy replies: \"You need not distress yourself. The moral will be perfectly fair. Lady C's unustifiable endeavours to separate us were the means of removing all my doubts.\""}, {"response": 61, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (01:41)", "body": "I know I am one of the few who think that Darcy could have proposed at the Inn at Lambton but even if you don't think that there are reasons to justify The Look. This is the first time we see Lizzy responding (warmly) to Darcy. I think The Look makes the subsequent scene with Lizzy and Jane talking about how Darcy won't been renewing his proposal seem more realistic. When Jane says to L, \"surely you do not care for him\" or something to that affect, Lizzy says she doesn't but she sounds doubtful. Lizzy seems remorseful about her initial rejection of him. (Basically I believe she is in denial at this point) And The Look gives justification for Darcy to go to the Inn (even if some don't think he is going to propose). It shows a man compelled to be near the woman he loves and prove he is worthy of her love. Anyway that's my two cents."}, {"response": 62, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (15:07)", "body": "Darcy is in such a rush to be off to that Inn that I too thought he might propose, if he thought he could ascertain Lizzy's feelings at that point. I also never believed Lizzy when she tells Jane that she doesn't know if Darcy was in love with her; and that \"she doesn't know\" why she cares if he's thinking ill of her. Maybe it's just so obvious to the audience and she is in deep denial, as Karen says. Is it also possible she's withholding her true feelings from Jane, Maybe knowing that Darcy loves her but now he's gone forever, what with the Lydia affair? See Karen, you are not the only incurable romantic on this board!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (15:42)", "body": "Amy, I think Lizzie was withholding her true feelings from Jane when she says \"I never sought them\" (Darcy's attentions). Also, she was trying not to mention the fact that the Bingleys were in Derbyshire. In the book there is something to the effect that she had to be careful not to reveal too much to Jane because it might give her pain (very bad paraphrasing). I think Lizzie knew her feelings by that time, but it was all too late because of Lydia. As to Darcy rushing off to the Inn, I think he wanted to spend the day with her - to see if he could make her love the \"new\" Darcy and he probably wanted to catch her before she set off for a day of sightseeing. Of course, there's always the possibility that after a day spent wandering around Pemberley (after dumping Miss Bingley in the lake, otherwise she'd have been entirely in the way) he'd have proposed before she and the Gardiners left Derbyshire!;-)"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (20:18)", "body": "Well Amy I'm glad to know I'm not alone."}, {"response": 65, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (21:21)", "body": "When examining JA's characters' motivations, we must not forget to keep in mind the peculiar rules of society of the times, of which JA had an excellent understanding, and deliberately used them to further her plots. In this context, JA's contemporary readers would have had no doubt at all that things were inescapably over between L&D after Lydia's elopement, no matter what the sentiments of the principals. At the time of the visit to Pemberley, while she no longer thought negatively about Darcy, had not yet arrived at the point at which she thought favorably of him. The visit itself began that turn-around in her attitude. I think that Davies used \"The Look\" scene to \"telegraph\" the chapter in which JA goes on at length about what Lizzie is thinking at night when she can not sleep - when she tries to examine her feelings towards Darcy and cannot decide how she feels: As for Elizabeth, her thoughts were at Pemberley this evening more than the last; and the evening, though as it passed it seemed long, was not long enough to determine her feelings towards one in that mansion. [details of her thought process snipped - Chapter 44 if you want to read them] She respected, she esteemed, she was grateful to him, she felt a real interest in his welfare, and she only wanted to know how far she wished that welfare to depend upon herself, a d how far it would be for the happiness of both that she should employ the power,which her fancy told her she still posessed, of bringing on the renewal of his addresses. Darcy, on the other hand, would not have been ready to renew his proposal following morning, after the shredding that Lizzie gave him the first time he tried, but he definitely does want to pursue the acquaintance and demonstrate that he has taken her criticisms to heart, and following \"The Look\" he has reason to believe that a vist from him will, at least, not be unwelcome. So just as each is in the mood to be pleased by the other, JA throws a curve - Lydia's escapade with Wickham. To JA's contemporaries, this event would represent the certain loss of all hope for a marriage between Lizzie and Darcy. And after this disgrace, once Lizzie finally began to admit to herself that Darcy would have been an excellent match for her, she had strong and compelling societal reasons for believing that even if he did still love her, an alliance between them would now be impossible."}, {"response": 66, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (00:12)", "body": "I agree that Darcy wasn't going to the Inn to propose, but he couldn't stay away either; there was too much love felt on his side. This is consistent with the rapidity with which his mental planning on how soon he could introduce his sister to Lizzie progresses. If I recall correctly, in the book this progresses from waiting a day (I think) to allow Georgiana time to relax and recover from her journey to ultimately justifying in his own mind that he could take her there almost as soon as she had arrived at Pemberley. I don't think he ever successfully repressed his feelings after Lizzie refused his marriage proposal. All stuff a good love story is made up of!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (00:35)", "body": "Mary-- *sigh*"}, {"response": 68, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (00:41)", "body": "I don't think he ever successfully repressed his feelings after Lizzie refused his marriage proposal. Of course not - even though JA has very little to offer us with regard to the state of Darcy's mind, his behavior speaks for him. :-)"}, {"response": 69, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:43)", "body": "You are too much! No wonder so many of us enjoy sharing on this BB, conference, or whatever the heck it is called in computerland. A 'sigh' from Cheryl is appreciated as I have noticed her good opinion is rarely bestowed and therefore more worth the earning .(I think I read that in a book somewhere..)"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (02:47)", "body": "Mary-- :-)"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "Joan, too wrote: \"Darcy, ....definitely does want to pursue the acquaintance ....and following \"The Look\" he has reason to believe that a vist from him will, at least, not be unwelcome. \" Oh, he has such hopes that morning after the nigth before! Whenever I think of his hurried morning, the way he starts off on his horse- why that whip-lash makes my heart flutter, it bears witness of his eagerness to get to Lizzy - and his face and voice when he is entering with Hanna.... I would so much like to know what he is beginning to say before he is interrupted by Lizzy's bewildered countenance and 'I have not an instant to loose'."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (16:59)", "body": "Joan, too wrote: \"Darcy, ....definitely does want to pursue the acquaintance ....and following \"The Look\" he has reason to believe that a vist from him will, at least, not be unwelcome. \" Oh, he has such hopes that morning after the nigth before! Whenever I think of his hurried morning, the way he starts off on his horse- why that whip-lash makes my heart flutter, it bears witness of his eagerness to get to Lizzy - and his face and voice when he is entering with Hanna.... I would so much like to know what he is beginning to say before he is interrupted by Lizzy's bewildered countenance and 'I have not an instant to loose'."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (21:43)", "body": "I too would like to know what he is beginning to say. I don't think that he meant to propose, rather that he was so nervous about seeing her again that he had been rehearsing what to say beforehand. cute"}, {"response": 74, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (17:50)", "body": "Any chance he might thank her for intervening so seamlessly the night before & saving his sister from embarrassment?"}, {"response": 75, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (16:10)", "body": "thank her for intervening so seamlessly the night before & saving his sister from embarrassment? I have the feeling that the 'done thing' would have been to ignore the episode entirely thereafter, and Darcy might well have had trouble discussing Wickham with Elizabeth at that stage because of the associations."}, {"response": 76, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "Anna, I think you are quite right in thinking Darcy would have ignored the episode. It would be a very un-english thing to mention it, especially since the LOOK has already thanked Elizabeth for the job done.Darcy has enough problems communicating as it is without making problems for himself by re-hashing what has gone on before.My own personal theory is that he just cannot stay away from her, just as happens bfore his proposal at Hunsford.He pobably hasno idea of what he wants to do and say,except that h wants something magical like that to happen again."}, {"response": 77, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (15:05)", "body": "//Darcy ...My own personal theory is that he just cannot stay away from her, just as happens before his proposal at Hunsford.He probably has no idea of what he wants to do and say,except that he wants something magical like that to happen again.// ...(meaning the LOOK) Oh Caroline, that was very well put indeed!"}, {"response": 78, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (22:22)", "body": "That's it exactly, Caroline! :-)"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (14:49)", "body": "I have read scholarly reports that Darcy went to the inn that fateful morning with the intention to propose (although I never could discern why the scholars believed this to be so). Yet, I believe that Davies and Firth believed this to be the case. When Darcy returns to the music room, late at night in his darkened house, he gazes at the pianoforte in an attempt to recreate the moment. His eyes (oh, those eyes!) show pleasure, fear, and then a look of resolution and determination. IMHO, this is CF's f nest bit of acting in the entire production. I just melt whenever I watch this scene."}, {"response": 80, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (18:59)", "body": "If he was going to that inn to propose, he must not have had a nerve in his body! (But the saying goes, \"No guts, no glory.\") What could have happened, between Darcy and Lizzy, between then and when they next met at Longbourn to make him LESS sure of her at Longbourn? Nevermind, I can answer my own question - she was silent and grave. Ok, but anyway, I think it more likely that he was going just to hang out to try to confirm the vibes he was getting from her the night before - to see if she remained s ftened toward him."}, {"response": 81, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (19:01)", "body": "I vote for the \"no new proposal just yet\" side of the argument. I can remember being young and \"brand new\" in love - I remember thinking only about the next time I saw him, and I was sure he was thinking about the next time he saw me. We were not ready to get married - even go steady - maybe not even sure we wanted to arrange a date - but to see each other again as soon as possible was the hightest priority for both of us. I think there is a point in romance when we are literally taking it one day, one meeting at a time, and that this is where both Darcy and Elizabeth are by the close of the first evening at Pemberly. Both knew that the other wanted the next meeting - but after E's forced abrupt departure, the luxury of the 'next meeting' was lost and neither was sure that what the other felt could lead to a more lasting commitment."}, {"response": 82, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (20:50)", "body": "Very well put, Katy. I'm with you. I think he just wanted to see her again, maybe spend the day with her, but it was much too soon to try his luck again."}, {"response": 83, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (21:34)", "body": "I figured it out this way that he was going to invite them all again to Pemberley,because in the book it was a morning visit this would be an evening visit.Then if he could spend the day with her,also He did say we would not see this evening at Pemberely due to Lydia/Wickham fiasco."}, {"response": 84, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (01:33)", "body": "// to see each other again as soon as possible was the hightest priority for both of us.// Yes Katy, I can remember that same feeling. Every morning you woke up and almost your first thought would be, will I be able to see him today? And you would arrange such coincidences that were almost bound to place him in your way. The trouble never seemed too great, and your ingenuity was never more inventive. \"You fly down a street, on the chance that you'll meet, and you meet... not really by chance\" (from The King and I) And when that neeting comes about, when you are in the same room or inn or whatever, who can tell what's going to happen ? Ooh, now it all comes back to me. I think Darcy had some rather strong hopes of their taking some steps further on their way to mutual understanding. Some steps at least, he wished... at the very least. Confirm the vibes as Sharon said."}, {"response": 85, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (06:07)", "body": "] \"You fly down a street, on the chance that you'll meet, __ I vaguely remember this feeling, too, Ann. Thanks for jogging my memory."}, {"response": 86, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (11:08)", "body": "You guys have brought me around to your P.O.V. After viewing the adaptation, I could have sworn Darcy was galloping off to that Inne to propose to Lizzy; but I agree that after her fierce rejection to Proposal #1, he was probably just trying to gauge her feelings."}, {"response": 87, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (12:04)", "body": "Amy W: A proposal at the inn isn't a total impossibility. After all there is no accounting for the actions of a guy with a ...Never mind. I'll stroll over to the daggy section."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (14:22)", "body": "Sharon!!!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (14:56)", "body": "Amy2, re: galloping off to the Inn ----- The nonverbal proposal actions are something we've talked about a little before. Like Bingley, Darcy is short with his servant and rides like the wind. For the casual viewer, one-time viewer (or stupid viewer as we like to term it) the connection would not be made, since the Bingley proposal happens later."}, {"response": 90, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (11:09)", "body": "Right. It almost seems like the filmmakers _want us_ to believe he's galloping off to propose, whereas the book's logic dictates that he would not until he's better able to discern Lizzie's feelings."}, {"response": 91, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (11:43)", "body": "As posted in Amy's BB, I too always felt he looked blissed and then perplexed, and quite eager to leave Pemberley the next morning. That made me believe he would maybe propose again. But the more I think about it, the less consistent it is with his later reaction whether after he learns of the elopment or when visiting at Longbourne. It doesnt MESH well [new word of the day :)]. Although it as been discussed before, I believe even if he acted for Lizzy only, another part was his feeling he should have told people about Wickham much earlier. This reason he gave the Gardiner has a ring of truth. Wickham was almost a brother to him for so many years, responsible as Darcy is, he surely had some kind of fraternel instinct in bailing him out, a bit of guilt feeling maybe as well. Especially after what Lizzy's mention \"if only people knew about Wickham, I knowing should have told\", we c n guess him thinking the same for him or at least feeling guilty at these words."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "I base my reaction on that lovely bit after the dinner party, where he is almost skipping through the darkened rooms at Pemberley.He remembers Lizzy's \"look\", then his happy dream seems to dissolve.His face seems to go from \"God, she's wonderful\" to \"but does she feel what I think she feels?\" and then to \"How am I going to make her like me?\" And before that, as he is seeing the carriage off, he just looks plain Worried .If her spends the night pondering this,he won't be ready risk himself again in t e morning. Darcy works a lot on \"impartial observation\" and would need more encouragement from Lizzie than just one look."}, {"response": 93, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (16:03)", "body": "Worried, you bet and to say the least! This just plain confirms my second opinion, less romantic maybe but so much more rational. Very convincing, Caroline."}, {"response": 94, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (18:39)", "body": "Yeah, old big-foot evans,stomps all over the romance, again!Actually, I don't think Darcy himself is a romantic soul.He certainly is ambivalent about all the things that go with romance, like compliments, dancing andpresents. Neither of his propsals is at all romantic,really.;-}"}, {"response": 95, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "Darcy definitely is a down to earth guy who listens his inner thoughts and feelings, while avoiding an overrated macho attitude and any unnatural artifice. This is most pleasing"}, {"response": 96, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (19:51)", "body": "'.. don't think Darcy himself is a romantic soul.' Au contraire, Caroline! He may be a complete doof when it comes to implementation, but don't forget his response to Elizabeth saying, \"...I wonder who first discovered the efficacy of poetry in driving love away?\" He said, \"I have been used to consider poetry the *food* of love.\""}, {"response": 97, "author": "ednaw", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (06:06)", "body": "I used to think that D was planning to renew his proposal' . I still think that that is what we ment to think by Davies et al. However The LOOK is inconsistent not only with the book, but also with his leaving E so abruptly after she confides in him about the elopement (her trust seems suddenly misplaced). Her trust is equivalent to his when he tells her about his sister. Didn't he realise the significance of that trust? No he did not need his Aunt to help him! The LOOK would have given Bingley' and through him Jane some indication as to E state of mind, making J's surprise at E & D engagement rather improbable (on top of all she must have gathered from her own talks with E). But like everyone here I loved the LOOK they might as well have kissed right there and than."}, {"response": 98, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "'The LOOK is inconsistent not only with the book...' I don't think it is THAT inconsistent from the book. He was 'with a heightened complextion, earnestly looking at her' when Caroline was sticking her foot in her mouth and then Lizzy dealt with it and 'quieted his emotion'. She was afraid to look at his eyes, but you can imagine how he must have been looking at her."}, {"response": 99, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (20:18)", "body": "Another thing, Bingley might have caught Darcy's \"look\" at Lizzie at Pemberley but he couldn't have seen Lizzie's returning \"look\" since she was behind where he was sitting. So Bingley might have had some idea of Darcy's feeling but not of Lizzie's and Jane probably told him that Lizzie disliked Darcy (which she also thought at the time)."}, {"response": 100, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (22:08)", "body": "Ednaw: The LOOK would have given Bingley' and through him Jane some indication as to E state of mind. Bingley may not have noticed; he was very likely giving his full attention to his partner in conversation (we hear their voices in the"}, {"response": 101, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "Dirty word! Well I am not about to try to re-create that whole thing all over again. When will I ever learn not to type directly into this stupid non-cacheable window!"}, {"response": 102, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (12:34)", "body": "Oh, Joan,Joan, say it is not so!We will never know what you were going to say! ;-)(emoticon in case picture does not work!)"}, {"response": 103, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (12:35)", "body": "Well, what do you know....."}, {"response": 104, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (17:03)", "body": "kendall (response #81), I think you've got it nailed. I never thought Darcy was going to propose at the Inn. It was just that Elizabeth seemed to finally be somewhat favorably disposed to him and SHE WAS SO CLOSE! He simply couldn't stand not to go to her."}, {"response": 105, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (18:00)", "body": "' He simply couldn't stand not to go to her.' ssssiiiigggghhhhhh"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Karen", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (19:22)", "body": "I have read your comments and am lead to believe there are no helpless romantics out there. Sure logic would tell Darcy not to propose at the Inn but if he went by logic he never would have proposed in the first place. But on a serious note, even when I've read (and re-read) the novel, there is no real reason for Darcy to go to the Inn other than to see Lizzy. We know that arrangements have already been made for their respective parties to meet. I know after being slammed as he had been, he would be r luctant to put himself out there again but . . . And also when he is comforting Lizzy at the Inn, the dialog let out reveals Darcy as much more tender than he is portrayed. In Chapter 46, he says, \"I am afraid you have long been desiring my absence, nor have I anything to plead in excuse of my stay, but real, though unavailing, concern. Would to Heaven that anything could be either said or done on my part that might offer consolation to such distress! But I will not torment you with vain withes, which may seem purposely to ask for your thanks. This unfortunate affair. . . I still think the aura of that last evening was working on him and anything would have been possible."}, {"response": 107, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (20:06)", "body": "Karen, I like you attitude! I too am a hopeless romantic and would love to think that after THE LOOK, Darcy got on that horse and galloped like the wind to propose to Lizzy again. I agree that the adaptation kind of muddies the water, because it seems like the filmmakers are trying to go for maxiumum romance while still staying true to the book. THE LOOK is so powerful that the story almost stops there -- it's clear these two are in love, and are going to get married. It's almost like the Wickham sub- lot doesn't matter -- I think Darcy would have married Lizzy even if Wickham and Lydia were living in sin forever. He was that far gone."}, {"response": 108, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (22:54)", "body": "]he was that far gone.... And isn't that why we love him so!"}, {"response": 109, "author": "Karen", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (17:05)", "body": "Amy2 - I agree with you THE LOOK is that powerful but the novel also does leave the door open for one to think that he might ask her again. I can understand why literary critics felt that he was going there to ask her as well. Meggin - Yes, this is why we love him so!!! And now for something completely different. . . Why is it when Lizzy is flashing back to Wickham's behavior prior to the elopement, she imagines him saying he is loath to leave Lydia? When it happened, Wickham was referrig to Lizzy. Also is there really the possibility that Mr. Bennet will fight Wickham or Mrs. Bennett just being crazy (again)? Mrs. B. blathers this nonsense in the novel as well. I remember reading one critic who obviously thought Mr. B. would fight. As for me, I always thought thi was Mrs. B. being hysterical."}, {"response": 110, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (18:18)", "body": "' she imagines him saying he is loath to leave Lydia? ' I chose to interpret this as Elizabeth wondering if he could have been thinking of Lydia, thinking back to see if there was anything that could have tipped her off. or Mrs. Bennett just being crazy (again)? ' She's crazy. Mr. Bennet nor Mr. Wickham appear to be of the temperament to duel."}, {"response": 111, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (19:29)", "body": "Would such a duel have been swords or pistols? What would Brandon and Willoughby have used."}, {"response": 112, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:21)", "body": "They've been talking about duelling on Austen-L lately, Ann. You could do a search. Looks like very soon Arnessa will have the list archives here for us. That will be nice."}, {"response": 113, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "Karen: Why is it when Lizzy is flashing back to Wickham's behavior prior to the elopement, she imagines him saying he is loath to leave Lydia? There was considerable discussion about this some time ago. It is a device used a number of times by the screenwriter to give \"instant insight\" into the state of mind of a character without having to use a conversation or a \"voice over\". In this case, Lizzie had always assumed that Wickham had meant her, but now she begins to wonder whether he actually meant Lydia. There are many other such cases - such as when Lizzie thinks back to the Netherfield Ball after Darcy's first proposal, and envisions the behavior of her relations as even more vulgar than they actualy were, or when Darcy returns to the music room at Pemberley in the dark and thinks back upon \"the look\" - the expression that he \"sees\" in his mind is quite ambiguous - not the same warm and wonderful look that we, ourselves, saw on Lizzie's face. He is not sure of what she is thinking - although we re. There are many others..."}, {"response": 114, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:33)", "body": "Or when he walks back from the disaster at Hunsford. Lizzy's voice is even more angry than it was earlier. That may have made the first proposal scene even harder to act: both actors had to leave room at the top of their emotions so that Lizzy could be angrier in the voice over and Darcy could be ruder."}, {"response": 115, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:37)", "body": "There are many others... __ Should we list them? One interesting one is our first glimpse of Georgiana as a self-assured young lady receiving the attentions of Bingley. Is this Jane's vision -- or Lizzy's, as Caroline's letter is being read aloud?"}, {"response": 116, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:58)", "body": "Amy: . . . our first glimpse of Georgiana as a self-assured young lady receiving the attentions of Bingley. Is this Jane's vision -- or Lizzy's, as Caroline's letter is being read aloud? I'd say it's Caroline 's. But it could be Lizzy's as well. Certainly not Jane's--she's too sweet to be bitchy, even in a situation like this."}, {"response": 117, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (23:41)", "body": "I think it's Jane's as she sees it \"drawn\" by Caroline. Not in a bitchy way, but imagining her as actually being that self-assured and accomplished."}, {"response": 118, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (11:21)", "body": "It's a really interesting device, and I'm glad Davies used it. It's kind of a RASHOMON view of the same events as viewed by different characters. I like it very well indeed!"}, {"response": 119, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (12:16)", "body": "Amy2: It's a really interesting device, and I'm glad Davies used it. Not to take anything away from Davies, but shouldn't we be giving some credit (here and elsewhere) to Simon Langton, the director? I'm sure he was responsible for many of the effects we admire."}, {"response": 120, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:57)", "body": "Joan: I think its Jane's as she sees it \"drawn\" by Caroline I think its Caroline's rather than Jane's because, near the end, Darcy is smiling and looking at Caroline (obviously C.'s wish) but Jane would know he a: never smiles and b)not at Caroline!! Anne3: I think you're right - Davies wrote the scene but Simon Langton implemented it. Probably a good example of the two of them working together."}, {"response": 121, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (20:14)", "body": "Sorry Anne3. Writers so very rarely get credit for anything in film, I guess I was a little overzealous. You're right -- Simon Langton did an all around spectacular job directing the show. It seemed he made all the right choices, with never a misstep!"}, {"response": 122, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:21)", "body": "I hate the direction of the scene where Darcy first calls on Hunsford alone and sits with Lizzy for a while. His head is almost off the side of the screen!"}, {"response": 123, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:28)", "body": "Lizzy's conversation with Col. Fitwilliam in the park at Rosings is really excessively truncated and botched, in my opinion..."}, {"response": 124, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:32)", "body": "=excessively truncated and botched How scarce a word for a so important missing part, you surprise me HC ;). Excessively indeed. How I missed the matter of Darcy's power and his freedom followed by the Colonel's hardships because of rank, lack of money and therefore his own lack of freedom and to openly choose love over money. We could have been tantalized in believing, like Lizzy, of his deeper interest in her well-being, his falling for her."}, {"response": 125, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:35)", "body": "But Henry, in a filmic sense, it conveys everything it should, and in a time-efficient way. Davies knew that Col. Fitzwilliam is not a particularly major character, so he wasn't going to waste a lot of screentime on him. I have to say I agree with his choice."}, {"response": 126, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (14:13)", "body": "I'm with HC and Johanne on this. Aside from being so abrupt--\"Will you walk with me, Miss Bennet?\" \"Do you know the Bingleys?\"--we lost a lot: the glimpse into Darcy's background that helps us understand his pride, the conversation about Georgiana that prepares us for the story in Darcy's letter, the attraction between Fitzwilliam and Lizzy that shows how attractive she is to men and how difficult the marriage market is for her. And Antony Calf was such an appealing Colonel--I would like to have seen ore of him."}, {"response": 127, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "Janet, next time, \"The Colonel's Story\" !!!"}, {"response": 128, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "Anne3: And Antony Calf was such an appealing Colonel--I would like to have seen more of him. Yes I liked him too and would like more, but not at the expense of seeing more of Darcy! What do you propose cutting out? ;-) I know we're all of the \"adding to\" faction here...10 hours wouldn;t have been long enough for us! ;-)"}, {"response": 129, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (17:18)", "body": "I'm with Cheryl, though I did miss that longer scene with Col. Fitz; I'd also liked to have Lizzie and Darcy actually walking, if not talking, together. I think 8 or 10 hours would have been fine!! Then they could have included everything !! Actually, if I'm not much mistaken, I think Anthony Calf wasn't in P&P2 much because he was probably busy filming \"Madness of George III\" at the same time. He had a bigger role in that, and wore nearly the same uniform!!"}, {"response": 130, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (20:53)", "body": "...\"and wore the same uniform\"... Yes, and I thought it made him appear rather \"hippy\". I don't like lard-y men----give me Darcy any ol' day!"}, {"response": 131, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (01:28)", "body": "who did Col. Fitz play in King George? I cannot place him..."}, {"response": 132, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (09:13)", "body": "Fitzroy, another Fitz"}, {"response": 133, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "Johanne: Fitzroy, another Fitz Sorry dear, not enough info...who was Fitzroy? Do I just need to go rent the movie again? I also didn't know that Laura's Rupert was in this too...:-("}, {"response": 134, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (16:28)", "body": "Cheryl, Fitzroy was a military aide to King George III and stayed loyal to him. I don't know if Laura's Rupert was in this - I don't remember him - but Rupert Everett played the Prince of Wales (later regent and George IV). RE was in Another Country with CF. Actually, I'd seen the stage play in London and didn't pay too much attention to the movie."}, {"response": 135, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (17:34)", "body": "We saw so little of Col. Fitzwilliam in the adaptation that he did tend to come off like the town gossip/flirt."}, {"response": 136, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (23:42)", "body": "And only one small photo in the \"Making of ...\" book"}, {"response": 137, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (16:11)", "body": "Back to Ann's comment (#122) on the filming of Darcy's first solo visit to Hunsford. The great distance between Darcy and Lizzy is certainly irritating. but I think it was quite deliberate. It is an uncomfortable scene because they are so at odds with each other. Lizzy is puzzled by his visit, his aloofness, and what he does say when he gets round to talking, (the easy distance conversation - him thinking of when they are married, she not realising this), on top of her dislike for him. Meanwhile Darcy is truggling with his attraction to her, and his usual difficulty in talking to her. I think the exaggerated separation in ther seating is meant to emphasis this. It foreshadows the proposal scene, the point at which they are furthest apart in the whole story,and it is acknowledged openly. And it also makes a lovely contrast to the scene at Lambton Inn, where they sit so close, feelings much closer and more in tune, and Darcy takes her hand."}, {"response": 138, "author": "Saman", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (16:24)", "body": "Re 137 Hilary - I agree with you, although when Darcy starts the conversation by remarking about the alterations Lady C had made to the house he begins to \"thaw\" a little and look more at ease than Lizzy. If he were truly very uncomfortable I don't think he'd have snickered when she said \"I am sure she could not have bestowed such kindness on a more grateful recipient\" (paraphrased). I love the look he gives her when she says that :)"}, {"response": 139, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (18:15)", "body": "Hilary, I too love that snicker re: grateful recipient; I always thought that he just appreciated Lizzie's humor in that and the fact that she could be polite while describing her idiotic cousin so accurately! He was actually quite \"thawed\" out otherwise he wouldn't have paid the call in the first place; it's Lizzie who is still very cool to him!!;-)"}, {"response": 140, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "I have no problem with where they are sitting, I have a problem with the fact that the cameraman barely has Darcy in the frame. Most of his head is off the side of the screen. It is really annoying. There is the same problem with the second proposal scene. The camera is pulled in so tightly that Darcy keeps falling off the edge of the screen."}, {"response": 141, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (20:04)", "body": "The camera is pulled in so tightly that Darcy keeps falling off the edge of the screen. Yes, these are both examples of errors in camera work when shooting something in film that is intended to be transferred to video. Which makes me marvel even more at the skill that it must have taken to film the Netherfield ball scene in such a masterful manner!"}, {"response": 142, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "Joan, do you think Darcy is completely in the frame on the film then? I'd love to see that, it's always annoyed me too that he is practically out of the picture."}, {"response": 143, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (22:46)", "body": "Yes, I like that snicker and look too....I'd forgotten about it! He does appreciate her humour, doesn't he? He may be thawed out, so to speak (!), but he still finds it hard to talk to her."}, {"response": 144, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (23:20)", "body": "do you think Darcy is completely in the frame on the film then? Yes - would be interesting if they ever decided to distribute the filmed original to theatres. (Or televise it in letterbox format?) The place that it bothers me most is in the second proposal. At least in the parsonage scene, it is consistent with the attitudes of the characters to have them at opposite ends of the screen, and even partially \"offstage\" - but IMO it really looks bad in the proposal."}, {"response": 145, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (00:50)", "body": "How dare they deprive us of even one frame of our complete darling Darcy! Blasphemy!"}, {"response": 146, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (06:29)", "body": "A&E deprived us of many frames. The video, though, includes every frame, but a few inches at each side of each frame do not show - like when they show \"The King and I\" without doing it in letterbox - only in that case often what you miss is significant! I love it that AMC shows those films in letterbox format."}, {"response": 147, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (11:10)", "body": "Yeah, it's amazing how much you miss after they \"pan and scan\" films for TV. I think AMC did a special using KING AND I as an example, and you suddenly realize you're missing half the movie if it's not letterboxed!"}, {"response": 148, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (15:39)", "body": "TV stations are beginning to show letterboxed movies more often these days. At least cable stations are. Sci-Fi showed the Star Wars Trilogy in letter box, and of course AMC shows some movies that way as well. Hopefully people will get used to it, and the networks will pick up on it too. Probably wishful thinking, but more titles are available in letterbox in video stores and people are getting used to it. Occasionally TV does wise up. I heard that Shindler's List is going to be shown commercial-free on one of the networks--with an intermission. I don't know if there will be commercials during the intermission. They realised it would be increadibly crass to break that movie up with advertisements. Someone actually was thinking!"}, {"response": 149, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (19:21)", "body": "There is a terrific review of P&P2 in today's (2/8/97) New York Times by Christopher Lehmann-Haupt, a book reviewer for the NYT. He compares the translation of book and series and likes both better than any other Austen adaptation. I'll try the link. Hope it works! http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/arts/tv-austen-review.html"}, {"response": 150, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (14:52)", "body": "Well, since we're not from the US there is a fee involved, and I resent paying it to see one article (for now). Could you comment on it Inko ?"}, {"response": 151, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (15:57)", "body": "Johanne, sorry about the fee - didn't realize. Anyway, I also posted this in the \"Ramble\" topic and Amy was kind enough to put the whole article in there. She put it in last Saturday afternoon, so if you go back a bit, you'll find it there. I suggest you go read it. He liked it, he really, really liked it!!!"}, {"response": 152, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "I probably should not have posted it. But it seemed dumb that an article should expire on the very day it comes out. I suppose I am not setting a good example. It just seemed wrong, somehow, that we, of all groups, should not be able to read it."}, {"response": 153, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (10:59)", "body": "I tried to access the site yesterday and it had already been incinerated. At least the L.A. Times manintains articles in an archive!"}, {"response": 154, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (11:13)", "body": "Do you have an address for the online archive, Amy2? Is it pubicly accessible without registration or fee?"}, {"response": 155, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (19:02)", "body": "The New York Times on the web is free, but they want to make some money out of it by charging for the archives."}, {"response": 156, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (11:24)", "body": "Actually, the L.A. Times started off with free archives but now charges per search. And WHy are newspapers online so eager to give you a password? What purpose does that serve? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 32, "subject": "Top ten lists", "response_count": 10, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (08:31)", "body": "Based on what, Carolyn?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (09:03)", "body": "Since I only saw P&P2 by accident (channel surfing during the Democratic Convention, I think) and almost no one I know has seen P&P2, I have always assumed it was a lovely, well-kept secret. I was quite astonished to see it recognised by Time last week and wholly agree with the two sentence summary. \"Having arrived just when it seemed Austen-mania could be borne no longer, this lush production radiantly revived the rage for Jane. With perfectly observed sets and a keen grasp of the subversive social th mes that underlie Austen's comedy, this mini-series put its competition to shame. PBS' Moll Flanders? A dud!\" So, there it was, included as part of The Best of 1996 which under the category of movies rated The English Patient number 1 and under Websites rated Salon number 1.."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (15:07)", "body": "Amy, It appears to based on everything (TV series, mini series, specials, sports, etc.) that appeared on television this year. There was an eclectic mix of shows, \"The Essence of Emeril\" one of the TV Food Networks cooking shows also made top ten, (sorry but I can't remember the rest). It was rather a surprise to see P&P2 listed there, because if I am not mistaken, the original review for P&P2 in Time was less than enthusiastic, but apparently it grew on the reviewer, gaining his/her good opinion."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (23:09)", "body": "Carolyn: \"It was rather a surprise to see P&P2 listed there, because if I am not mistaken, the original review for P&P2 in Time was less than enthusiastic, but apparently it grew on the reviewer, gaining his/her good opinion.\" Either that or the reviewer never found anything better."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (04:31)", "body": "TV guide gave P&P2 an excellent review...This week's (or last week's? Hell, I rarely watch tv anymore!) named it one of the best miniseries of '96 and the best of the recent Austen adaptations...they even inclded a little photo of JE and CF!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (12:58)", "body": "Oh, Kali, if it is a new pic, send to one of our scanner operators for inclusion, pretty, please with sugar on it ;}"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (19:15)", "body": "All right: why does message #5 have a later date than message 6--I take it someone has been messing up the dates! (Especially since message 5 will be posted about nine hours from now)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:38)", "body": "Probably because the system date was wroing had had to be reest. Or else, could we have just entered the twilight zone?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (03:21)", "body": "MAri: Oh, Kali, if it is a new pic, send to one of our scanner operators for inclusion, pretty, please with sugar on it ;} It is not new - one of those many promo stills that they shot with L & D in their Netherfiled Ball finery - similar to the big one I posted in the holiday topic - and very tiny to scan from. BTW, Mari, was it you who was looking for this? Someone wanted it some time ago, but I have forgotten who!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Feb  1, 2001 (07:24)", "body": "Whatever happened to Joan Winsor? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 34, "subject": "\"Wuthering Heights\" tonight !", "response_count": 22, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (19:29)", "body": "Sorry everybody, it starts at 8:00pm; there is an encore at 12:30pm too."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (03:21)", "body": "Ok, I watched and someone needs to explain this to me. I've never read the book or anything, but I've always had the impression that Heathcliff was this larger than life romantic figure. Well, he's a bully and a brute! I love Ralph Fiennes and would watch him in anything, but I was actually swearing at him when Isabella showed up all bruised and battered! I don't care how badly his heart was broken, nothing excuses his cruel behaviour towards everyone who comes near him! So there! Harumph!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (09:22)", "body": "Besides Austen, I love the Brontes, but they are as different as day and night, Cheryl. Austen is the sparkling light of rational wit and relatively happy endings, whereas Emily and Charlotte Bronte are the shadowy moonlight of melancholy passion with troubling death/depth before union. Having said as much, and despite liking the photography, settings, and Fienes and Binoche in general, I was disappointed in the lack of passional intensity in Fiennes & Binoche acting style. Compared to reading the book, or even seeing the old Olivier film (where he really got into the part and frankly had the more authentic dark eyes, hair, voice power etc.), this version had all the vitality of a consumptive victim trying to run a marathon. Sorry, but there it is! The book has incredible power and of course all the descriptions, thoughts, and feelings are completely presented there for the reader, instead of just the tidbits of dialogue pulled out for the film. Heathcliff's cruelty seems less inexplicable when shown in context of his abominable treatment by the Earnshaws, etc., and his and Catherine's love seems much more consuming and intense."}, {"response": 4, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (09:25)", "body": "p.s. On the other hand, the actor playing Hareton did have the right \"wild thing\" look and acting!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (12:11)", "body": "It wasn't just the Earnshaws that treated him badly. It was everyone including Cathy and her brother. The brother I can understand the resentment in away but WH would be his so why bother being so resentful and to make Heathcliff himself more resentful and hateful. I don't understand were all this resentment/hate comes from. The only thing is that the father loved Heathcliff more but he didn't leave him WH. I am I wrong or was it just the fact that Heathcliff invaded his turf. I have not read the book. Ca hy to me was a selfish little brat. If she couldn't have him no one else would either. Yes, you are right Cheryl he was obessesed and took it out on everyone and nothing justifies such brutallty. I don't even think he cared when his son died. He used his own child to seek his revenge.If you ask me they are all with a few exceptions{Edgar} nasty people. The one thing I did notcie was when Linton first met young Cathy was his \"eyes\" I know I have seen \"The Eyes\" somewhere before.;}"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (12:29)", "body": "With a few exceptions; I think that Hareton turned out well. Lacking backbone though to stand-up to Heathcliff. Heathclif hated Hareton's father.It seemed he was civil to Hareton at times. I have not read the book."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (14:16)", "body": "Can you say RACISM! Heathcliff is a Gypsy, which is enough of a reason for many to hate him. Gypsies face discrimination to this day. Most of the orphans in Romania that we have all heard so much about are Gypsies, who no one is willing to adopt. There was a great film about the Gypsies--they prefer the term Romany--a year or two ago, unfortunately I can't remember the name of it."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (15:53)", "body": "I'm glad to hear that others shared my opinion on this. I had expected this passionate romance, where you'd be rooting for Heathcliff. Instead, he turned out to be an abusive, horrible person for whom I felt only disgust. Not at all the story I expected. I'm sure that the book makes his motivations clearer, but I was disappointed with the film (except, of course, for Hindley Earnshaw, who looked remarkable handsome )."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (16:12)", "body": "Right, Kaff...I now have a new appreciation for Hindley... Actually, I liked this adaptation. A lot. And I hated the book. I strongly dislike the whole Bronte style. I think maybe I needed to see Cathy and Heathcliff for the incredibly disturbed freaks that they were! ;) Yeah, Ann...gypsies get a bad rap sometimes. BTW, my dad's friend Walter is one and he prefers the term \"gypsy.\" Most American gypsies do, I think. I think that they might also resent your implication that they are not \"white.\" ;)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (17:50)", "body": "Some who have been called also gypsies roamed in continental Europe originate from the Nile. They, if I remember correctly, traveled from the Mhagreb through Gibraltar, into Spain and then in France as early as the Maures around the IXth century. Incidently, they are mentioned in the Advocated, which takes place in XVth century."}, {"response": 11, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (17:50)", "body": "the Advocate oops"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (18:24)", "body": "Kali, I didn't imply they weren't white. As far as I can tell Hispanics/Latinos etc. are white (Caucasian), but they also face racism. If Racism is only defined as discrimination against Caucasians, Negros, or Mongoloids (a very unfortunate term), the three defined races, what would we call anti-Irish, anti-Latino, or anti-Jewish descrimination? The movie on the Romany that I saw took place in Spain, and the Gypsies seemed to have been of Indian (east) descent."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (20:02)", "body": "I also watched WH last night, and must admit I prefer the Olivier-Oberon version. Ralph Fiennes may be a great actor, but to me he is the same in everything I've seen him - Schindler's List, TEP, and now this. He seems cold, cruel, and selfish; even in Quiz Show he wasn't much better. I thought I'd like Binoche, but I found her giggles infuriating. Jeremy Northam was good as Hindley as was the actress who played Ellen. But then, this has never been my favorite story - I prefer Jane Eyre any day if we re talking Bronte novels. I don't think there was any intentional Racism, though. I think the brother only used the term Gypsy as a derogatory \"nobody\" rather than an actual fact. After all, the brother's son, Hinton, looked as much a \"Gypsy\" later on as Heathcliff ever did."}, {"response": 14, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (20:21)", "body": "I think the reason their books have a sense of eerieness, betrayal, and death in them is for 2 reasons. 1 thier mother died when they were very young. 2 Emily and Charlotte and thier 2 sisters were sent to Clergy Daughters' School at Cowan Bridge. It was a dismal charity schol for the daughters of clergymen too poor to go elsewhere, and conditions where such that many of the students became seriously ill. Maria and Elizabeth both died of a combo. of turberculosis and typhoid fever. Emily spent most h r life after school in seclusion."}, {"response": 15, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (11:36)", "body": "The one Bronte brother- Branwell- was a prototype of Heathcliff apparently. He was dark, brooding, talented, substance-abusing, yet extremely close to Emily. She only lived a few months after his early death. Emily was a solitary but intense woman, loved walking with the family hounds on the stormy moors, etc. (She might have found more of her kind in our century.)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (19:53)", "body": "I think perhaps \"ethnic discrimination\" is a better term, Ann. \"Race\" is a highly ambiguous and oftentimes invidious term."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (15:17)", "body": "I read an article about the time Quiz Show came out that Ralph Feinnes HATED his performance in WH. I don't think his performance was bad but this versions Heathcliff was a SOB. My memory from the novel was revenge of the mental type rather than physical abuse. He took what he could from Hindley because he abused him physically (hitting him) as well as making him live in the stables. He mentally tormented Cathy because of what he overheard. He loved her, but there is such a thing as a dysfunctional love. e hated and did what it took for revenge, but I don't recall him physically abusing Isabella in the book. He was blunt: I am using you to get what I want. Then when he had her he ignored her and physically restricted her (as was a man's option in those days), but I don't think he hit her. I think that is a little too much license, especially with the problems we have in this day and age. I also believe this movie is not available on video. With RF recent emergence I am sure all kinds of \"bad\" movies will surface. There certainly are a lot of people in this: RF, Binoche, Capt. Wentworth's brother-in-law (Cathy's father), The guy from Middlemarch (Heathcliff's son), Jeremy Northam (not looking as dashing as he did in Emma). I must agree, Hinton was rather smoldering. I don't think anyone can beat Olivier's Heathcliff; first time I ever saw him in something where I actually thought he was at ractive. Dina"}, {"response": 18, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (10:47)", "body": "The guy from Middlemarch is Colin Firth's brother Jonathan Firth. Very handsome and looks a lot like his brother."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (11:25)", "body": "The Eyes Laura, The Eyes."}, {"response": 20, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (12:39)", "body": "I know exactly what you mean. I watched Circle of Friends yesterday and even though CF played a not so nice character, oh boy did he look good. Even with the mustache. The \"oh Nan, Oh Simon, Oh Nan\" I almost spilled my wine in anticipation. Also for those of you who have Showtime 6:15 A Month in the Country is on so set your VCRS. I know mine is already programmed. \"Oh Colin, Oh Laura, Oh Colin, Oh Laura you are wubbulous........\" In a perfect world I guess"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (14:52)", "body": "If I order Showtime tonight will I be able to see \"A Month in the Country\" at 6:15."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (15:01)", "body": "] If I order Showtime tonight will I be able to see \"A Month in the Country\" at 6:15. It would be worth a little groveling, Donna. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 35, "subject": "Serenades", "response_count": 6, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (07:28)", "body": "Ann2 sent me these words and this picture earlier in the week. Sorry I did not get round to putting it up earlier, Mrs Reynolds. Could that odd choir you once formed be tempted to serenade to Darcy ? The tune I have in mind is: \"Teach me, tiger how to tease you waowwaowwawaa\" and so on, are you at all familiar with it? Ann2 No, but I have not forgetten about the odd choir. Amy"}, {"response": 2, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (09:35)", "body": "The tiger is marvelous. I applaud your choices. (Not sure I want to join the choir, though, as I am subject to colds when I do not dress warmly enough!)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (13:26)", "body": "I remember that one, Ann2. Wasn't it sung in a very breathy voice? But did it really have the \"waowwaowwawaa\" ? That sounds more like 'Whats new pussy cat' to me."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (14:01)", "body": "No Ann2 Who sings it? The only tiger song I know is \"I've caught a Tiger by the Tail\". Do you know that one."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (09:54)", "body": "Donna, your song migth fit for a Lizzy vocal! I have not heard it. I think Eartha Kitt performed this tune, and yes, Hilary if breathy means what I suppose, she certainly has/had that kind of voice, rather deep too, and full of hidden messages. Am doing some research hear for the remaining lyrics... one is Teach me tiger, how to please you (blush, blush). LOL at the pussy cat suggestion, but there is some moaning in the tiger song though I cannot vouch for the spelling of it. Ann2"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (10:02)", "body": "Donna, your song migth fit for a Lizzy vocal! I have not heard it. I think Eartha Kitt performed this tune, and yes, Hilary if breathy means what I suppose, she certainly has/had that kind of voice, rather deep too, and full of hidden messages. Am doing some research hear for the remaining lyrics... one is Teach me tiger, how to please you (blush, blush). LOL at the pussy cat suggestion, but there is some moaning in the tiger song though I cannot vouch for the spelling of it. Ann2 austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 36, "subject": "Solving disorientation in the Netherfield drawing room", "response_count": 5, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (16:36)", "body": "But, Ann2, I am having trouble finding your narrative. Do you still have a copy?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (00:26)", "body": "(((Pardon me, Amy, but should 79:1 not have been placed in topic 78?)))"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (04:21)", "body": "how disappointing - on a rapid read I thought this topic was going to tell me how to avoid disorientation in the Pemberly drawing room. Thats the real trick... in confusion A"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (00:57)", "body": "Re 79:1 Comments on sketch of Netherfield drawing room: Five scenes inP&P2 take place here. The walls and the tablecloth are yellow. The windows seems to be covered in the evening. And piedestals with chandeliers of prodigious dimensions are placed in front of them and in the corners. 1) After the Meryton assembly. There is coffea on the round table and Miss Bingley moves with her cup to Mrs Hurst on the sofa exclaiming :\ufffdAnd so none of the Hertfordshire ladies ...\ufffd Bingley is in the big armchair near the sofa and Darcy is standing at the fireplace. Mr Hurst is snoring on couch (He had to sleep a lot after all the food and wine he devouted his life to.Here his position of the white whale is repelling. He was probably able to sleep in chairs too, as his wife might have daily proof, and we saw at Pemberley, where his osition is as if in a chair.) Bingley rises to ask Darcy why he is determined to think ill of everybody. And the latter feeds the malice of the evil sisters with his :-\ufffd sooner call her mother a wit\ufffd. (Rather boyish look on his face there.) 2) The card evening. Darcy enters through Door A, walks up to Lizzy asking about Jane, then withdraws to \ufffdhis table\ufffd. Lizzy is on the sofa. Around the table are : Caroline Bingley chair A ; Mrs Hurst chair B ; Mr Bingley chair C ; Mr Hurst chair D. Thus the couch is empty as we get a glimpse of it rigth in front of Darcy as he enters. 3) Mrs Bennet\ufffds visit. Caroline closes door C and proceeds to the sofa lamenting of \ufffdthe invasion\ufffd. Mrs Bennet enters through Door C , advances to the middle of the room, then goes to a window (nr 2). After that she returns to the armchair near the sofa and sits down. Kitty and Lydia remain standing behind that chair until Lydia steps forward to ask Bingley about his Ball plans. Mr Hurst who stands by the fireplace at first, manages to escape through door C. Mr Darcy is seated near his table reading, but rises as the visitors enter ; then he moves forward until appalled by the beneathness of his company, (with some exceptions..) he resumes his familiar position by a window (nr 1). Mr Bingley starts in the armchair near the sofa , rises with Darcy and stands in the middle of the room. Lizzy enters with her mother and sisters. Then she moves in the middle like Bingley, rather symbolically(?) as they are the links between Darcy and the rest. Lizzy seemingly rying to prevent her mother\ufffds rudeness from reaching its object even with her body. 4) A turn about the room. Mr Darcy is in his chair reading and Miss Elizabeth Bennet is at the round table on chair C reading too(improving their minds no doubt). Mrs Hurst is sitting in the armchair near the sofa yawning and looking boored. Mr Hurst is asleep on the couch (what else when there was neither food nor cards to be had...). Mr Bingley stands leaning on the mantelpiece but soon goes to sit on the sofa looking rather absentminded. Miss Bingley walks about the room pretending to read volume two of the book Darcy has chosen. But soon she throws her book aside (on the lower cupboard beside the fire) and after some bending and stretching, - rather obvious wouldn\ufffdt you say ? - asks Miss Eliza to join her and take a turn, which Lizzy does out of sheer politeness I guess. After Darcy\ufffds comment on their figures, she stand by the fire to \ufffdtease - and if possible - laugh at him\ufffd. Miss Bingley stands a bit aside and (as she observes the reac ion Lizzy is able to get from Darcy, oh how different from what she herself has ever managed...) finally hurries to the pianoforte for \ufffdsome music\ufffd. (Error I have not been patient enough to correct: Mr Hurst\ufffds couch should be nearer to the window wall, almost in front of door A.) 5) I have recently observed, that even the eventful Netherfield Ball supper takes place in this room, though some rearrangements of the furniture are made. Tables put in and Mr Hurst\ufffds couch probably placed somewhere else (where he could rest his weary body after the many dances he no doubt indulged in). The pianoforte, as we all know, is available for the various performances of Mary Bennet and Louisa Hurst. At the pauseknob Ann2. Found this on a floppy disc this morning. Must remember to list the contents as the floppies pile up around me..."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (00:41)", "body": "I am so sorry, but I have been given more drawings. Oh dear, it was weeks ago, someone sent computer sketches of the Netfield and Pemberly drawing rooms. I did not put them up right away because I did not want to steal Ann2's thunder, since she spent a lot of effort learning how to convert the picture she made. But now, I can't remember who send the sketches we haven't seen and I can't find the email either. Anne from South Africa, maybe? Please forgive me. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 38, "subject": "Yapp tricks discovered", "response_count": 9, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (09:44)", "body": "Try this address to see just today's posts."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (10:43)", "body": "Here's the address I use: http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/since/-1/new This just gives me the posts I haven't read, without making me scroll down to the bottom of the file. NOTE: The first time I set it to this, it reset everything as unread. I then waded through all the topics to set them back to read, and now it works like a charm!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (01:14)", "body": "But are you still able to get to the bottom/origin of a topic if you wish to? If so, this seems very neat and time saving. Thanks!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (02:48)", "body": "Once you get into a topic, you can use the redisplay box at the bottom to get pretty much anywhere within it. You can type in a response number as a starting point, or you can use a negative number (eg: -4) to show the last 4 responses, or you can use 10-16 to show that range of responses."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:29)", "body": "Much obliged Joan, too. You are always so generous and share your knowledge freely. I am saving lots of wisdome from this board and have word docs full of it. To study at home soon on my own pc that just arrived. Hope to improve my mind then."}, {"response": 6, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:40)", "body": "Actually, Ann, I just discovered that I lied. I thought \"-4\" gave 4 messages, because when I tried it, that was what I got - but today I discovered that it was just a coincidence - what \"-4\" really gets you is the past 4 days' worth! Still useful, but not as specific as I thought it would be."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (22:51)", "body": "from Dave Thaler: tem 39 entered Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (22:49) by Dave Thaler (thaler@armidale.ann-arbor.mi.us) Status of new release Here's an update on latest Yapp developments... The following bugs are fixed: - minor security hole in \"source\" command - duplicate responses are now prevented - cfcreate and cfcreate shell scripts now work right on System V platforms - commands embedded inside seps now work again - After posting from the web, all responses are displayed starting from the last one seen (requested here by Anna) The following features are added: - added macros so that the \"browse all\" web page shows a \"NEW\" icon next to new items (suggested here by Joan) - you can now change your name in each conference. Also, if you set it to \"none\", it will always be the same as your global fullname. - added support for ulist includes (requested by Trinity College) to help manage private conference user lists - Added support for \".cfjoin\" files (global default and/or per user) to be executed the first time you join a new conference (requested by Drizzle) - \"fixto\" command (currently from Unix only) allows marking all responses as read up to a specified date, unlike the current \"fixseen\" which marks entire items (requested by Drizzle) - You can now mark everything as read from the web (requested here by Joan) Things not done yet: - Allowing responses to responses from the web (requested here by Amy) - Updating the help files and/or admin guide to document the new features If there's anything you've suggested that you don't see listed above, please mention it again in case I missed it. I'm thinking about doing a release within the next couple of days with just the things already done, plus hopefully the documentation. Any more features/changes would delay the release. Questions/comments?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (22:52)", "body": "Post your comments in the yapp conference. Only two more days to make changes that will be incorporated into the next release."}, {"response": 9, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Mar 19, 2001 (09:20)", "body": "We wtill don't have this working! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 39, "subject": "welcome wagon.. help respond to folks inquiries", "response_count": 56, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (17:42)", "body": "From: mailto://tdroog@worldaccess.nl (Thea Droog) Nice meeting you again. I did not visit EM. I'll tell you why. The webb is verry new for me. I'm 59 years old, always interested in computers, but I have no experiance, till now. It's verry hard working, I can tell you, just to make things go. In the first 4 months I have this machine I already have had crah on 3 modems. I had not the slightes idee what was: a server, java, download etc, etc. Just name it and I did not know. And when I entered the web I was overwhelmed. I wish to meet people but I find it difficult to express myself on the web. I can tell you somethin about myself. I'm working four days a week, have a house and a lovely garden to work in. I look once a week after my grandchilderen, have two cats. I like painting, bridge and making clothes. I'm interested in sciences, ( my son lives in Mexico, Sonnora, is a fysicisit and my doughter is an astronomer ) in literature, in politics and in philosophy. And I'm always interested in something I don't know. So if you can help me to find the right groups and feel myself comfortable I will thank you . I hope I will hear from you. Thank you for your wishes for the holliday season and the same to you. Thea Droog"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (17:48)", "body": "Hey, thanks, haven't had a chance to check out everything, but I will, soon. What I do like to do is rant and rave about stupid things in the news, like the cop in Cleveland arresting that lady for being a Good Samaritan. I do have a web page at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/ Plains/2762 and I do work on it when I have time. mailto://chuck@olg.com"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (17:50)", "body": "From: Budry Darius mailto://bud5@total.net Well my stay was brief and I didn't have good look yet... I can tell you that I like talking about VRML, Java and most of the subjects you cover I'll tell you what I don't like in the future, after I analyse the site No I don't have my own page, no time to build one yet..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (17:54)", "body": "from mailto://cicely@prairienet.org Absolutely! This is a perfect excuse for me to finally check out the Spring, too. :) And thank you for your kind remarks. As a web designer and part-time writer, I'm always fidgety about the content on the Web and elsewhere with my name attached to it. It's good to see that my efforts spark interest. I'd like to see more book discussion topics, software and hardware discussion topics, human rights discussion topics, alternative living topics (as in, alternative to the frantic, dual-job, no-time, guilt-ridden, lackluster half lives that folks in my age group seem to be doomed to lead,) and space exploration topics. I think it's interesting that there's really only one topic that is patently about things Non Technologicaly related. And it's not really all that huge. I'm honored that you're interested in my input for the Spring and pleased that you've initiated this \"outside\" contact. It's always exciting for me to get email from EMinds folks. It proves that EMinds really works. I wish you peace in this season and a lucky new year, Andrea Andrea Foster Member Services Coordinator, Prairienet -= boch ghlchraj =- http://www2.vivid.net/~cicely/self/"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (17:56)", "body": "From: Jennifer Stone Gonzalez mailto://gonzalez@epix.net I'm on my way out of town for a couple of days. (To Texas, as a matter of coincidence) I will reply later in the week."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (17:58)", "body": "mailto://t.robb@rmcnet.fr Living in Europe I like to find sites with a European content - theres US stuff everywhere. I come from Sydney and welcomed to chance to check in on the old home town. I tend to spend my time off the Web and on the (fairly) technical newsgroups - so I've never bothered with a HP. Sorry I'm not much help, but I'll check out your site & be in touch if I have any ideas!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (18:02)", "body": "From: Linda Mae-Richardson mailto://linda@olywa.net Holidays are shaping up nicely: Family, Friends Food and Frolic. My kid's wish lists are growing longer than my recently-post-student budget could allow, but they still recall the days when I spoiled them silly and worked my butt off at a high-stress position. I went to a family Christmas event at a church last night and it reminded me, again, that Christmas is more about a babe than gifts. I just keep forgetting. And, again, made me realize how much I'm looking forward to being a gramma in April ... my daughter has become a teen-pregnancy statistic and I'm actually trying to remain it the excited, anticipatory, wider-world view of many societies through history where young pregnancy was encouraged and the supportive motherly side of myself. She's really quite radiant and well as a whole. An angel to be around when she visits me. (This is a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of the email I got from her... there's was lot more, all fascinating... it would unleash a deluge to get her on our system!)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (18:07)", "body": "from: dani mailto://dani@address.net I would like to see topics about social issues and not just social issues that have to do with being or interacting on and in cyberspace..but social issues that we, as people, have to deal with in our every day lives for the most part. I'm fascinated with social issues and can discuss them for hours on end, it seems. I'm speaking of all kinds of things like the death penalty, crime and punishment, the welfare system, social movements, political movements, abortion, drug problems, anything and everything that we, as a society, deal with ad naseum. I also like talking and discussing issuess dealing with the media and how it really affects our thoughts...you know, things like that. Another thing I enjoy almost more than anything (online that is) is playing MUDs...I'd like to see topics covering social aspects of MUDs as well as possible problems and possible positive interactions that add to a person's real life. Hmmm...anything else, I wonder? Nothing I can really think of at this time...bet you're sorry you asked me now, huh? You probably never expected to get this lengthy of a reply :) anyhow I appreciate you taking the time to actually ask me what I thought...I find that to be a cool thing :) And no matter what anyone posts about you and your reactions to any given thing, I'll always remember that you took the time to wonder about my thoughts. Thank you :) Take care and hope this answers your questions (ha...like it wouldn't =) ) Later... Dani"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (18:09)", "body": "mailto://billw@iwaynet.net (Bill) Terry--Sure, I'd love to have a link from the Spring to my pages. I just logged on to the Spring a few days ago and started looking around. Poked into a discussion about Buddhism which is a central interest of mine. I'm sort of a born again (!) Tibetan Buddhist, I guess. Besides that, the two things I seem to be most interested in are what people are doing with kids and computers--(especially projects oriented toward creating new work rather than CD-ROM tutorial or gaming type stuff) and digital video I can't remember if the Spring supports HTML or allows graphics to be referenced like Electric Minds. If it does it might be nice to have a conference devoted to sharing of people's online visual art. I think there are lots of amateur visual artists out there with no forum to share in who might be eager to post their work. Maybe something with a size limit on postings or a way to post big images hidden or something."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (18:12)", "body": "From: Meredith Russell mailto://mrussell@wyoming.com Content is optional- I come for the interactions rather than a specific topic although I am interested in many of the techno-geek, too new-agey to use the term new age stuff - personal growth and developement, pushing the envelope of inner experience, how to be a good person and still work for a corporation, how to not work for a corporationa and still make enough money to afford gadgets like fast computers and associated toys. I do have a home page, http://member.tripod.com/~maru/index.html but the tripod server seems to be down today, I can't get there from here either Well, blah, blah, blah, if this is interesting/useful/whatever, ask for some more, I can go on and on... I checked briefly into your place. Hot springs are another favorite thing of mine. What are you up to at your site? Meredith (I created a hot springs topic in the porch conference)."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (18:14)", "body": "Let me know if you write thse folks by posting a bried comment here. I justg wish I had more time to write all these folks the considered replies that they deserve. If you take an interest in one of the letter writers, please drop them an email of encouragement and support. If nothing else, send them some warm holiday greetings. Thanks!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (18:20)", "body": "And believe me, Linda Mae's letter must have been five pages of text, I've never received such an outpouring! Please encourage her by sending her warm thoughts and give her encourgement to visit here!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (19:45)", "body": "My interests are knowledge sharing and creation. I'm convinced that community is the next wave on the internet. Community represents a more tangible cyber product than content, it has greater creative powers and is more difficult to replicate. A vibrant community has value in the marketplace!. Value to the host through contributions from customers and visitors and value to those who converse, win-win. I would appreciate an easy way to match my interests with current and past posts. The neatest thing would be some intelligent agent that would scan my profile and monitor my wanderings and then help me locate \"interesting\" posts AND people. and monitor my wanderings and then help me locate \"interesting\" posts AND people. Does the Spring have some sage advice on community building? best software + interfaces + behavior to bootstrap, build and cultivate a strong group? I guess you are doing some e-networking with this post and would be interested to hear what results you achieve. Take care Denham ------------------------------------------------------------------- GreyMatter, Inc. Knowledge Management Consultant 828 N. Campbell Ave Call: (317) 375-8630 INDIANAPOLIS IN 46219-4517 E-mail: mailto://dgrey@iquest.net USA http://www.iquest.net/~dgrey Concepts are the currency of the knowledge age, invest wisely!! -------------------------------------------------------------------"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (19:48)", "body": "...even though my ISP will let me setup a web page for free, I have not really been able to figure out how to do it yet. Though an avid bbs user for a few years now and computer junkie for many years before that (no phone for 8 years!), I am really new to the internet and I do not get HTML at all (duh). In fact, as much as I enjoy the discussions on eminds, I am fairly clueless as to how that interface works as well. It absolutely made my head hurt the first couple of times I tried to find my way around there. Such a cool idea though. that sounds great, I will check it out for sure, though I have never been west of New York state, so I don't know what I might add to discussions about the Austin, Texas scene... > And hoping you have a fine holiday season. ...and the same to you, Paul. Thanks for writing. Harry Pike 53 Elm Street Farmington, NH 03835 1-603-755-4851 mailto://maddog@worldpath.net"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (19:51)", "body": "From: mailto://lucas@sun.mech.uq.oz.au (Michael Lucas) [the spring] looks excellent. Had a bit of look this morning. Will go back tonight when I have fewer deadlines to keep to! Its been bookmarked next to EM in my browser!! Good hearing from an Aussie -ptw"}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (20:01)", "body": "From: ----summer---- mailto://sfgibb@mail.wm.edu I'm also new to chatting - so I haven't really done much as of now (with finals coming up I'm EXTREMELY stressed) - after finals I can't wait to get talking! Let's see -about me, I'm a soph at William and Mary -thinking about a triple in Environmental, Psychology and International Studies (East Asian) -I'm taking Chinese (don't ask me why - I have NO East Asian ancestry at all) I have danced, mainly ballet, for the last 15 years, I love the outdoors - rock climbing, skydiving, backpacking,etc, and animals (my dog is probably my best friend) - I have never been in a relationship that lasted past 2 weeks -for some reason I always get tired of the guy after two weeks - but I am a true romantic - and can't wait until I find the right guy. Hmmm...I guess that's enough senseless bs about me -any topics that have to do with anything listed above would be wonderful -if you have any spare time please let me know what I should check out (and any ins and outs of the system that would make my life easier) Thanks - Summer"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (20:07)", "body": "From: Robert Hough mailto://rhough@intranet.ca I am close to 60 years old, I live in Ontario Canada about 120 miles east of Toronto Ontario. A number of years ago I drove to Brownsville (about 2200 miles) I found Texas an exciting State and the people were great. I like to hunt, fish and sell real estate. Regards Bob Hough (hoe) Belleville Ontario Canada"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (06:57)", "body": "mailto://jfield@nerak.companet.net From: (Jeff Field) Howdy Spring. Link fine Fatty. Will answer questions soon time. Pax, Cap'n Fatty I hope we hear more from Cap'n Fatty. -ptw"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (07:01)", "body": "From: jon casimir mailto://casimir@smh.com.au I'll check out spring... and I hope your hols are groovin' too. cheers, jon"}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (07:04)", "body": "mailto://Michalis.Giannakopoulos@studi.epfl.ch (Michalis Giannakopoulos) Hello, (I'm sorry if I don't write english very well) My favorite topics : \"my life today\" and \"ici on parle francais\". But i don't take the time to see a lot of another topics. A topic which should be most intersting to me(but maybe I'm just not able to find it) is conversations about relationship between humans and between humans and..life, and \"rules\"of human being that people can detect or imagine. But I don't want a scientific or psychologic topic, I just like feelings of people when the're talking. I like the way that everyone speak with everyone but it seems to me that there is a big lack of humor. I don't have a web page, but I can have one. Like I already said, I just don't take the time to build it. I already have a lot of things that I want to do and I don't find the time to do it...like everybody I think..I sure like to find time to build my own home page, but I should learn it(it don't seems difficult at all). I must go to work, now. I hope I have answered to your questions. Michalis Giannakopoulos (I'd love to offer Michalis a web page -ptw)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (07:07)", "body": "G'day, Thanks for your kind words, I would love to participate in Spring I love seeing what people's backgrounds and hobbies are. I basically love hearing others ideas on things I feel strongly about. It makes me feel part of a bigger International picture. I would like for there to be more international spots such as one from New Zealand and more from South America. I can't think of anything else but I promise to Email you if I do. I think it is important to our knowledge of other countries and cultures. Thanks once again, please write again sometime. Kylie alias Mac99 ----------------------- moyra mcnamara E-Mail: mailto://moyra.mcnamara@alianet.alia.org.au"}, {"response": 22, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (07:08)", "body": "I'll go to the spring and if I have any comments that I think would help I'll tell. Julian. From: Julian Palmer mailto://far@julian.org"}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (07:13)", "body": "I'm off to work. I am some of the folks here will take the time to \"adopt\" some of these nice folks and help them go for a swim in the Spring. That would be most kind of you!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (07:53)", "body": "From: \"Nina Johnson\" mailto://NBJ695@novell4.bham.ac.uk I support disucussion of important (and sometimes less important) subjects espacially over the internet, but I prefer to use the IRC's flexibility and instant answers compared to the conferencing by posting messages. Both of them have bad point and good points in their functionality, but I just have decided on using IRC. but I just have decided on using IRC. I appreciate the good job you guys are doing, and it is about to spread into something big. But for now I have to give it a pass. But the offer for my own spot of discussion on your server DOES sound interesting. Let me think about it, I'll try and decide if I have the time for running a site like that, although I do have the topic I'd like to evoke some discussion. Thanks!! Nina"}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (08:23)", "body": "Ted Julian Internet Research Manager International Data Corporation (IDC) 5 Speen Street Framingham, MA 01701 phone: 508-935-4237 fax: 508-935-4397 mailto://tjulian@idcresearch.com http://www.idcresearch.com"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (15:17)", "body": "Paul, scrolling through the above make me realise how little I know about spring myself; all I've had time to look at besides Austen is a brief dabble in Yapp (whinging again!). I've wondered about what you're trying to do here, is there any info on Spri ng as a whole about?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:29)", "body": "Glad you have asked. I am starting new conferences and inviting new folks all the time. We've had a major upsurge in inquiries and activity in the last few days so I really hope folks here in austen will join more conferences and give the newcomers encouragement. And take a bit of time to write some of the above folks and let them know they're welcome and offer to be their \"big brother or sister\"! If there's a topic you would like to talk about besides the wonderful ones here in austen, feel feel to create it! Today, we have a lot of folks coming here for the first time and, unless we encourage them and respond to them, I fear we may lose them. The austen conference is bound to benefit from the growth and prosperity of the Spring as a whole."}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:33)", "body": "From fatty: Fatty believe chemical basis of brain will have tremendous impact in next 10-20 years. More than computers. Fatty use self example. Fatty classified Bipolar. Rollercoaster ride. Heaven and hell. Heaven, Fatty do impossible. Hell, Fatty don't do shit. Spring, take your own situation concerning the recent wipeout. You reacted very strongly, forcefully. How you react if brain chemistry different? Shrug it off? Go brood? Give up? Who knows? Action depend on chemicals. And chemical pharmacy poised for new influence. Fatty think there will be plenty competition for the new god. One way - electronics. Other way - brain chemicals. Probably end up with synthesis. But all this leave religion out in cold. No telling how religion react to encroachment from these two. Fatty predict massive social upheaval next decade, but not directly from above. Other factors play part. Topic maybe? Topic for sure! -ptw"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:34)", "body": "From Chuck Chapman: Hey, Paul, no problem. What interests me is how people, especially the press, twist things out of proportion. Some people say because pedophiles are on the net, the net is bad; or NBC convicting an innocent man (Richard Jewell) mailto://chuck@olg.com"}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:35)", "body": "I'd like to think about your questions for a moment before getting back to you, but I thought I'd write to let you know that I got your message and will reply at greater length very soon. And I'll check out Spring too - although my time is somewhat limited due to my hosting duties at Cafe Utne. But the more conferencing systems the better, and I think they complement each other, so enhancing the field for everyone! Bye for now, Michael \"Don't hate the media. Become the media.\" -Jello Biafra _______________________________________________________________ Michael Boyle (mboyle@zoo.net) mailto://mboyle@zoo.net Look for Mikes terrific posts elsewhere on the Spring -ptw"}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:36)", "body": "Would enjoy seeing greater discussion on philosophy, ideology, and technology, especially alternative energy technology. Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS mailto://josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html mailto://josephnewman@earthlink.net"}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:38)", "body": "mailto://dunard@halcyon.com Kurt needs a big boost this direction. Can someone send him some hints and tips on finding this way here? -ptw"}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:40)", "body": "Hi Terry Sure you can use my comments...and if you could create one topic of interest to me on the Spring I guess it would be something that could encompass social issues...not any one issue but a place where people who were interested in those kinds of things could go to discuss things like that. Not sure how you'd do it or if you'd even want to, but that's what would interest me the most I believe. Thanks again. Dani mailto://dani@address.net"}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:42)", "body": "mailto://abaker@mpr.org (Alan Baker) Paul, feel free to link to that thread, more eyes on it will help generate more and hopefully better discussion. I will keep your e-mail and do my best to answer some of your questions soon. I am under some big time constraints at the moment so if you still want some feedback and I have not responded after a week or so please send me a reminder. Best of luck at Spring.com. I have a budding interest in Database driven website so perhaps I will have a few questions for the spring.com folks. Thanks, Alan Consider it done, we'll create a database driven websites topic! -ptw"}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:42)", "body": "I'll see if I can't stop by the Spring at some point. -- John Callender mailto://jbc@west.net http://www.west.net/~jbc/"}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:43)", "body": "from: Mark Trigone mailto://mark.trigone@wcom.com I have not been on-line yet but plan to be soon."}, {"response": 37, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:46)", "body": "mailto://kathleenm@ipri.com My favorite topics . . . are the conversations (if you are considering those topics) in San Francisco (where I live now), Austin and Paris (where I used to live) and Justin (where I live vicariously) I'm new to the whole idea of virtual community and haven't waded out of the shallow waters of the nontechnological topics. It is . . . is a place to post brain fragments and enjoy the same from others. Can't answer the like/dislike because I have nothing to compare it to. Maybe I'll use the Spring to that end. Please check back with me in a week or two. No page of my own and no plans (yet). Thanks for the seasonal cheer, I wish you the same. best, kathleen And I wish you the same! -ptw"}, {"response": 38, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:48)", "body": "I think everyone search at least one relation with someone else. But most people want more. I think there are two reasons for this. First, you can't think alone a long time without becoming a little crazy. Second, between all pleasures you can obtain on this earth, I think these provided by other persons are the best. I talk about myself and I'm just a little student but what I'm working is just a way to buy my dreams with friends. Sure I quite like what I'm doing, but I can't do only that(I'm becoming a little crazy after only seven weeks of great work). So I'm always searching for new minds and characters to \"learn\" how they work, the way they think, it's the most interesting \"game\" I ever played.It's just by derision(I hope this word exist in english!) that I call it \"game\", there are too many emotions to laugh about it. I'm not really always and everywhere searching, I already have too much work in talking with my friends, because I don't know all them very well. When I think about it, I couldn't live without them. That's the way it seems like a game : if you don't have friends, you die, if you can talk and do a lot of things with them, you have pleasure. Pleasure in general is of course the goal of the life (for me, and I think for everybody). I resolved my game by this way : doing good to people I like is a pleasure. That's all I can write now, but that's not all. I hope it responds to your question. Mika mailto://Michalis.Giannakopoulos@studi.epfl.ch"}, {"response": 39, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:50)", "body": "thanks! I just want to quickly get back to you and let you know that I'm a little harried with work and holiday plans coming up. I'll try to get back to you early this week, ... sometimes messages get lost in the flurry, so I may take some reminding. Take care, joe _____________ Joe Germuska |_____ \"Once the writer in every individual comes to life j-germuska@nwu.edu |____ (and that time is not far off), Northwestern University |___ we are in for an age of universal deafness Learning Technologies Group |_______ and lack of understanding.\" http://www.nwu.edu/people/j-germuska | -- Milan Kundera mailto://j-germuska@nwu.edu"}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:51)", "body": "mailto://Lavath@aol.com if i figure out how :-) :-) Let's help him figure out how? -ptw"}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:52)", "body": "Thanks very much. I will check out the Hot Springs forum you have established during my browsing time next weekend. Meredith We made your hot springs topic in the porch conference! -ptw"}, {"response": 42, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (21:09)", "body": "In the last couple of days the Spring has gotten some great mail and we have new folks poking around in many conferences looking for someone to talk to. The Spring is at a major turning point! We can respond to these folks and start to gain critical mass or we can sink back down into obscurity. You can make a difference . My seeking these folks out and finding their responses around the Sprnig and encouraging them, these folks may well become regulars and the whole Spring will start to lift up. It can happen! I need your help! . I've just started working and intense job and there's no way I can give quality responses to everyone. And it's hard to keep trying to pump up every conference here except this one (which needs no pumping up). Just look at the great responses today of Stacey Vura in food and in ftiness. And the folks introducing themselves in the porch conference. And read and reread the emails that I've posted here. It can happen here! We can play on the net too! And you can help to make it happen."}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (21:30)", "body": "From: Julian Palmer mailto://far@julian.org > If I could create one topic on the Spring that would potentially > be of interest to you, what would that be? Perhaps something more general. Someone has created a topic called infinity and beyond . . . about new paridigms. Something about approaching life itself. I'll have a good look around there when I can. Julian."}, {"response": 44, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (21:31)", "body": "mailto://rhough@intranet.ca Thanks for your concern, it is fine to speak of my comments. A topic that would be appreciated may be letting people know that Canada is a great Country, and is not froze over 12 months of the year. I must amit it can be very cold here at times. Also bear in mind that I live less than 45 miles by water from New York State. Thanks Again Bob"}, {"response": 45, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (21:37)", "body": "From: \"CLAUDIA VIEIRA SANTOS\" mailto://CSANTOS@MRE.GOV.BR . . . It is hard to say which are my preferred topics right now since I have just started communicating via cyberspace, I am still trying to tap on something that motivates me to become a regular. I usually go to conversations and read postings on literature and music and travel related topics. I actually feel the absence of a movie-related topic as well as pictorial arts. I love 360 because one gets to hear so much from a lot of different places and people. The reason I don't have a web page is because it never ocurred to me to have one. I will check on spring asap and let you know what I think of it. Bye, claudia"}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (21:38)", "body": "Greetings back. My firm's web page address is below. I'll try to answer some of your other questions when I have the opportunity, but I haven't had a chance to look around . . . Joshua M. Peck Senior Publicist Jaffe Associates, Inc. A Virtual Consultancy mailto://peckj@jaffemktg.com URL Address: http://www.jaffemktg.com 914-578-1988 914-578-1989 (fax)"}, {"response": 47, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (22:22)", "body": "Patrizia DiLucchio - pdil mailto://pdil@mbay.net pdil says: I'm the Online Entertainment editor at PEOPLE Magazine--which loosely translated means I administer the interactive components of PEOPLE Magazine's presence on Pathfinder & on CompuServe. Among my responsibilities is running the PEOPLE Online conference series--if you do something or have written something--or know someone who has--that might appeal to a large online audience, feel free to write me email about it. In what we laughingly refer to as real life, I'm the married mother of two boys & I write science fiction. So I wrote her and told her about the folks in this conference. Why don't you drop her a line suggesting she do a story about this fascinating group? -ptw"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (22:46)", "body": "Amy - re 47; I haven't but I'm willing to do so, if that's OK with you Terry - I really need to have a closer look at the rest of spring before I comment on this, but I find the number and range of the above somewhat intimidating. Am I right in thinking that you're trying to create (a) web-based community(ies)? I have had to rearrange my schedules to allow me to participate at my current level, and I suspect many others here are in the same position. Have you considered (you may already have and I haven't found it) a welcome to spring conference and an FAQ rather than trying to handle them all on an individual basis? A general conference on life the universe and people might not go astray; besides the web, general people type discussion seems to be frequently mentioned by your respondents. You may have noticed we tend to veer to the people in general from P&P and I for one would participate in such a conference"}, {"response": 49, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (00:01)", "body": "I created porch for just this reason. It's meant to be a people place and the central place on the Spring to find out what's going on, like being out on the 'porch'! If you're lacking in time, perhaps you could pick just one new person to be a 'big sister' to?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (00:13)", "body": "From: Archana Sharma mailto://asharma@techbooks.com First let me tell you about myself.I am Ms Archana Sharma(from INDIA).I am Computer Engineer and CNE(Novell Engineer) by profession and presently working with publishing concern. I would like to have topics on: career and jobs which is not there.I hope it will be there soon... I dont have my own web page neither I am planning as I am working and I am allowed to have my own on companys's URL. But I surely wants to have ONE MY Own Page.If you can, PLEASE do SO.I will be looking forward for it. I would like to have focus on career and jobs across nation wise.I am very interested in woking outside INDIA.But till today I didn't got any opportunity to go for it.I am looking for job outside INDIA. Mostly in USA, AUSTRIALA, Singapore,England.So, I want to have conversation mostly on jobs, and technology in computers. I will surely love to know you more as friend . . . I think U people are having holidays, So Enjoy it.Have A nice time.. BYE Regards ....Archana. Archana, we will do so. I hope you look at Austin for a job. Check out the job listings at http://www.austin360.com (go to the classifieds). -ptw"}, {"response": 51, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (00:19)", "body": "More specifically: http://www.austin360.com/classifi/adtop.htm You can search for jobs with email addresses and email them your resume."}, {"response": 52, "author": "drymartini", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (18:25)", "body": "Wrote to tdroog and rhough."}, {"response": 53, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (18:25)", "body": "Will folks email this person please? From: \"John Cozma\" Subject: help me please!! i am writing an essay on the problems of virtual communities on the internet and require proof for or against the idea that the internet is a community. if you have any ideas or can suggest some sites for me to look at i would be forever grateful. Thankyou, sarah"}, {"response": 55, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Wed, Apr 15, 1998 (14:01)", "body": "hehe...good point, WER :))"}, {"response": 56, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Apr 16, 1998 (22:45)", "body": "What do you want to bet that essay was due Feb. 8?"}, {"response": 57, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Mar 19, 2001 (09:20)", "body": "test, Does this work? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 4, "subject": "Another Drooling Topic - Of the Knightley/Northam Variety", "response_count": 86, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (14:59)", "body": "First things first, something to drool about, (thanks to Kaff) http://worldrch.com/northam/images/preview5.jpg"}, {"response": 2, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (15:00)", "body": "Let me do this correctly :"}, {"response": 3, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "And this one for Mr. Beveridge"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "Thanks for the pics, Johanne! Ladies, may I join you here without losing my citizenship over at the Darcy Drooling Topic? Just as I am quite able to drool to the left and the right, I am quite capable of drooling over Darcy and Mr. Knightly simultaneous ly!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "I love the pictures-Ladies, especially the one from the dance. Every time I think about the scene in the film when the wonderful Rachel Portman music builds and Knighley sweeps Harriet off in the dance, I want to cheer and cheer. Such chivalry-there are n ot one and a hundred men with gentlemen so plainly written across them as Mr. Knightley or JN. I can't count the number of times that I've re-played the trailer to Emma(thank-you A&E for airing it during the P&P2 re-broadcast), just to hear JN's deep, re onant voice. Anyways, Keep up the good work!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (17:39)", "body": "OH, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!! I came home from work tired and cranky, fired up the browser - and now its all melting away. Amazing what a little Jeremy drool can do for you!! Perhaps now I can bear the long wait until the video is released in March!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (17:39)", "body": "I have a question. When did you fall head over heels for the dashing JN? I must admit that I liked him, greatly esteemed him as an actor in the Net and Carrington, but it wasn't until last august that it dawned on me that no one must marry Jeremy Knightle y, but me. The exact moment-I cannot recall. It probably was a gradual occurrence-too many repeated viewings, and re-readings of Emma.(the ticket lady at the local cinema was so tired of seeing me)If I had to chose, though, it would be the dance scene or ore particularly the look in Jn's eyes as he lovingly leads Emma to the floor, encircling his arm about her waist-\"brother and sister-indeed we are not.\""}, {"response": 8, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (17:55)", "body": "I first noticed him in THE NET, even waiting around for the credits to find the name of the handsome actor who had played the villain. I had forgotten all about him, however, by the time I saw EMMA. Needless to say, I will never make that mistake again! Unfortunately, I had just broken my ankle (in 3 places - why do something if you're not going to do it right) when it came out, and I only managed to convince my husband to pack up the wheelchair and take me to it twice. Being so deprived, I had no choic e but to endlessly surf the web in search of anything related to this delightful man. The end result of that search was the web site that Kali mentioned above. Needless to say, Mr. Jeremy Knightly came to my rescue and greatly aided me in my recovery!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "Awww, Kaff...what a story! I'm sorry you had to mess up your ankle, but what a wonderful site you came up with! Cheryl, you and all the firthies are welcome do dual citizenship...though I indentify more readily with my Northam compatriots, I have decided to retain my Firth citizenship.... Nice words, Cassandra...I've also ripped them off for the same purpose - more than once! ;)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Kessa", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (22:05)", "body": "OH How I lover JN!! Thank you for picking this topic!!! To anyone whom has seen Emma, I didn't get to because the stupid theaters around us didn't have it, EXPLAIN EVERYTHING!! I want to know all the details!! Esp. looks he stole at her and who noticed and when!! Anything I should know. Do you think not having the movie here would be a reason to call up my lawyer and and sue the movie thing-a-ma-jig? I can't believe they didn't have it here!!!!!!!!!!!! Kessa"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (00:34)", "body": "Patience, Penelope! ;) Kess, it comes out on video in March. Can you wait less than two months? ;) Go to Kaff's site for some nice photos... http://www.worldrch.com/northam"}, {"response": 12, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (00:53)", "body": "Tried this once, lost it, now let me do this again : Did'nt go so much to the cinema for one movie as this one in the past 20 years, not since Star Wars (and I had my teens to account for that). When the lady at the ticket counter said : Again! so loud, I had to change cinema. So found 4 others to fulfill m y new found addiction, but decide to go no more than 3 times per cinema, avoiding a similar reply. It's been much to long since but remember some favs scenes. ]]Such chivalry-there are not one and a hundred men with gentlemen so plainly written across them as Mr. Knightley or JN. Indeed very much so, capital, capital. Chivalry with a touch of vulnerability, irony and humor, a most pleasing and agreable countenance and such gentlemanlike manners. Memorable scenes that come to mind : the try-not-to-kill-my-dog scene, mischievous side-look to die for and love their escarmouche at the table; his we are not brother and sister - certainly not and the whole dance scene, like flowing on clouds; a difficu lt moment for him and her when meeting before his leaving for London, can barely look at her so much it hurts; such a deep struggle while trying to tell her he loves her, at the ice braker stage he needs all his courage. Sigh....."}, {"response": 13, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (00:55)", "body": "This is a remarkable one : love his sense truthfullness, no need for artifice just being true to himself and others, very indearing in a man"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (01:00)", "body": "being true to himself and others, very indearing in a man __ True to what part of himself, I wonder, Johanne. Follow his gaze."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (01:02)", "body": "Snort. Right where it counts...unfortunately, hers don't count for much! ;)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (01:05)", "body": "How can he object to such inducement, indeed (but was'nt he supposed to be partly gazing at the painting, may I ask?) ;)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (13:28)", "body": "More beloved scenes: the vulnerable lilt in his voice when he asks-whom are you going to dance with? The pained, tortured look on his face when Emma replies-Do not speak it! And another favorite with words memorable enough to repeat(replayed over and over in my mind)-I rode through the rain and I would ride through a lot worse if I could just hear your voice telling me....Marry me, my wonderful, darling friend(complete with a gentle caressing of GP's face). Mr. Knightley-you are a speech maker, despite al your protests! Kessa, I envy you seeing this wonderful adaptation for the first time."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (17:33)", "body": "I loved his expression when, after Emma accepts his proposal, she says that she can't marry him (because she can't leave her father). The range of emotions in those few seconds before he realizes why she's said that... it's one of my favorite Knightly mo ments."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (17:46)", "body": "Siiiigggghhhhh. Me too :-9"}, {"response": 20, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (18:09)", "body": "With respect to no. 18 and the expression on his face when Emma says she can't marry him: Kathleen-I loved that scene too!!! Is there one shot, scene, line, expression, look(doesn't he have the most enchanting smirk)that I didn't like? I know that I wanted to jump into the screen and fall into his arms, beat GP to him, in the particular scene you mentioned!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (19:05)", "body": "Again, I must say that I love the pianoforte scene, during Jane's performance - Mr. Knightley checking Emma's reaction, and smirking at her as she checks his. Sigh."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (19:16)", "body": "Ahem. A confession. I have never seen Emma .Couldn't.Wasn't within 100 miles of me.Have to wait for the video.Now,give me good reasons for shelling out money for another bit of Wummin stuff ;-}"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:27)", "body": "Caroline, check with Cheryl. She is our Director of Strategic Rationalization as well as Chief of the Tawdy Arts."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:55)", "body": "Caroline - Could this mean that you are unfamiliar with Mr. Northam's work? You poor, poor thing! Its no EMMA, but I recommend that you run out and rent THE NET immediately!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "Thank you Amy! I shall have to add that to my business cards: Cheryl Sneed, Piano Teacher, Director of Strategic Rationalization, and Chief of the Tawdy Arts! That is sure to impress those parents! ;-) Caroline, dearest, You Must Buy This Movie!! While it is not entirely faithful to the novel, and cannot have the scope of a P&P2, being just 2 hrs., it is very funny, very pleasing to watch, cinemagraphically, Gyneth Paltrow makes a very nice Emma indeed, and Jeremy Northam is the hottest Mr. Knightly there will ever be...ooh baby, ooh baby!!! Have I convinced you? ;-)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:28)", "body": "Cheryl is such a hormone-catalyst. We could never launch a drool-topic without her. :)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (23:23)", "body": "Where were all you people when I was trying to press my case over on the Happiest Couple thread? One of my happiest (funniest) moments in Emma was when they're talking about solving riddles and Emmas says something like, You are a riddle, Mr. Knightley; I thought you overqualified.\" Does anyone remember the exact quote? She's flirting with him and doesn't even realize it yet. I love how they're so unaware of how they feel about each other until it's forced upon them. Can't wait to rent it when it comes out in March."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (03:31)", "body": "I thought it was...\"Your entire personality is an enigma...\"..."}, {"response": 29, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (08:08)", "body": "Cheryl is such a hormone-catalyst. We could never launch a drool-topic without her. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Can you get this over the counter or do you need a prescription?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (08:20)", "body": "With everybody going gaga over JN, I am a little peeved that no one thinks that my Rupert Graves is a babe. Now when Tenant of Wildfell Hall is shown here in the US I think things will be different. Remember he did get a Darcy rating of 10. What did Je remy Northam get? I'm not knocking JN, I, too think he is very handsome, I'll just always remember him as a villain in the NET which I saw again last week on HBO. He does look good wearing sand BTW"}, {"response": 31, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (08:21)", "body": "With everybody going gaga over JN, I am a little peeved that no one thinks that my Rupert Graves is a babe. Now when Tenant of Wildfell Hall is shown here in the US I think things will be different. Remember he did get a Dar cy rating of 10. What did Jeremy Northam get? I'm not knocking JN, I, too think he is very handsome, I'll just always remember him as a villain in the NET which I saw again last week on HBO. He does look good wearing sand BTW"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (09:25)", "body": "Jeremy Northam didn't get a 10?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (10:07)", "body": "Thank you Cheryl and all, for your sympathy of my plight.Actually, I am plentifully supplied with videostores, so I can watch almost anything if I am patient enough.There is even a movie theatre quite close, but it caters to the local market of single sol diers, divorced soldiers, teenagers, and more soldiers.\"Emma\" and \"The English Patient\" didn't quite come up to the requirements, apparently. But, enough of my complaints, and back to the subject in hand(!;-)) HAVE seen the net.JN was extremely interesting,much more so than the plot. Have also seen Carrington, on TV. JN was okay, but Stephen Waddington boggled my brain......... I will permit you to drool as much as you wish over Your Mr Knightly. Meanwhile, I'll just hang out for March,for Mark Strong and listen quietly to you Guys. And if I want to drool, I'll go quietly into a corner and mumble about my own obsession.........Mr Hinds.......... And Laura. Rupert is cute. Very. Scudder Gets a 10 form me for looking like Darcy's baby brother........ But he makes me feel old! Have fun on this topic! love, Caroline"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (10:15)", "body": "Caroline, no need to occupy that corner alone. Hinds is cool. Not exactly drooling material. But he has something. You have been watching Ivanhoe?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (12:35)", "body": "Oh I love Hinds, what a babe you should have seen him in Hostages with C. Firth. He played Irish hostage Brian Keenan. I did not know it was him until the end of the movie. I have also seen him in Circle of Friends and an episode of my favorite Prime Su spect. He played a not so nice character. And then there is Rupert Graves....."}, {"response": 36, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "Some more favorite scences to add to the list: I loved the way the film introduced Knightley-framed by the window:As an old friend of the family, who cried the most at the wedding? The \"Badly Done, Emma, badly done\" scene (with the second line rendered by JN in a kind of tortured whisper). I saw the same scene in a promo for the new version and it didn't strike the same emotional chord with me. And the bewitching smirk on his face when Mr Elton sits between them at the Christmas party. K hit it on the nos when she said that JN can convey more with a look/expression than most actors can do with three pages of dialogue! What is his exact appeal though? Personally, its his overwhelmining masculinity tempered by a paltable vulnerablity and romantic nobility. One more thing-Can anyone tell me what Fatal inversion is about and where I could find a copy?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (14:41)", "body": "Myretta: Can you get this over the counter or do you need a prescription? Oh, Sister!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (14:52)", "body": "SNORT, Mom....;) --- Oh, dear! I have nothing to say-- But drool, drool anyway! :)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (15:06)", "body": "then hie yourself over to Pemberley, my dear niece! ;-)"}, {"response": 40, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (15:36)", "body": "I love all this drooling over Mr Northam, but my Mr Graves is a babe, I don't mean to come across as Psycho or anything, okay but I am. Here is a new picture with the old picture. I have searched hi and lo for new pictures of him on the web, but I think I am the only one who is obsessed with Mr Graves. well here they are I hope they come out well. I'm trying to convert people here please help!!!!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (15:37)", "body": "I love all this drooling over Mr Northam, but my Mr Graves is a babe, I don't mean to come across as Psycho or anything, okay but I am. Here is a new picture with the old picture. I have searched hi and lo for new pictures of him on the web, but I think I am the only one who is obsessed with Mr Graves. well here they are I hope they come out well. I'm trying to convert people here please help!!!!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "sorry guys HC showed me the errors of my ways here it goes again but not both of them I think this is a great picture."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "You have to put in the name of the image file, baby. But Laura, check out the META tag on this page. We keep telling you he is too young for a lot of us: [META name=\"keywords\" content=\"Teen Idol, Hunk, Twink\"]"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:07)", "body": "Simultaneous double help."}, {"response": 45, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "Sigh, JN(Knightley): I love him so dearly, so greatly. Besides CF, he is the only one I care about. If he can't marry me Lord, please don't let him marry another. I would be perfectly content if she just remained single. ALMOST!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "Hey, wait a second. Henry I though you never strolled into the Drooling Topics. Now must we question some of the other things you say you never do?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (17:39)", "body": "Cassandra - A FATAL INVERSION is a Ruth Rendell mystery from the BBC. It is about 2 friends who spend a memorable summer at a mansion that one of them inherits. Being a mystery, I don't want to tell too much of the plot - but I will mention that it is an excellent film for Jeremy drooling, as he spends much of the film with some or all of his clothes off! ;) I bought my copy online for about $23. I don't remember the nameof the store off-hand, but if you go to his bio page on my site ( http://www.worldrch.com/northam ), there's a link to it."}, {"response": 48, "author": "mich", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (18:08)", "body": "Laura, ok I know I'm adding up in years but who is Mr.Graves? What has he done? Mich"}, {"response": 49, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (18:19)", "body": "Kaffeine-Thanks for the info. I can't wait to see it! And may I compliment you on your wonderful site, a fitting homage to our dashing Jeremy Knightley. Plus-I learned that there are JN Emma tapes in existence. Now, I won't have to keep replaying the trai ler, just to hear his voice. Happy thoughts indeed! And Laura-I don't wish to offend you, but as much as I admire Mr Graves as an actor, most recently in Hamlet, (to quote our dear Harriet) I do not know who could ever look at him in the company of the other. He is like nobody by JN's side."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Kessa", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (18:38)", "body": "Thank you SO much for explaining some of the scenes for some of us deprived people who are considering calling the lawyers for the theaters not having the movie play and have to wait tell March (My birthday month)/April. Maybe he will be my birthday present *sly smile*. But in the movie, didn't ANYONE notice how much loved her? PS March is already a busy time for me! Now I have to make time to go buy a movie! The 26 is my fathers birthday, 27 is my nieces, 28 is mine, and the 29 is my nephews!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (19:02)", "body": "Cassandra - You brought up a good point. For those who weren't aware of it, Jeremy has narrated a book on tape of EMMA. It isn't for sale in the US, but many people at my site have purchased it from http://www.bookserve.com - it isn't in their database, but if you e-mail or call them about it they can order it for you (for about $20-25 US). Just make sure that they are aware that you want the Jeremy Northam version, as there is also an Ewan McGregor (did I spell his name right?) version out there. Kessa - In the movie, even he didn't notice how much he was in love with Emma! (At least not right away) :)"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (20:28)", "body": "42, Laura: Never could get the picture; try again? When I Tenant on in the US?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:46)", "body": "Ladies, concentrate! NORTHAM DROOL!!!! Laura, go take what's-his-name upstairs to the Firth topic! ;)"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Susan", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (22:46)", "body": "But I thought that was Firth drool...just curious about this Rupert Graves. Laura was sounding so lonely."}, {"response": 55, "author": "amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (01:53)", "body": "It's okay, Roar. We can't identify with your excessive passion, maybe but here's the deal. If you ever need to say, \"Isn't he cute.\" we promise to reply in the affirmative. Is that good enough for now until we find you another better fellow obsessive?"}, {"response": 56, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (08:33)", "body": "Hey first of all Mr Graves is older than Northam and Firth, so you ladies are not too old. I happen to be to young. And to answer what he has been in A Room with a View Maurice A Handful of Dust The Madness of King George Fortunes of War Where Angels Fear to Tread Mr Graves will be 37 this year."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (09:53)", "body": "37? That's not a bad age."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (09:56)", "body": "NO! He's not 37! I'm shocked! He looks 16 at the most! I may have to rethink this...;-)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:12)", "body": "May 30, 1960 guys, I'm April 10, 1968. He may have a youngish looking face, but he is pushing 40."}, {"response": 60, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:49)", "body": "Not preaching for my parish but 1960 was a very good year indeed (Mr Firth and I share the same birthyear)"}, {"response": 61, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (12:44)", "body": "ENOUGH OF MR GRAVES! I AM SICK OF MR GRAVES!!!! I don't know who could ever look at him in the company of the other. I am with you Kali, CONCENTRATE-NORTHAM DROOLING! To get back to the delightful JN: Can our boy kiss/snogg or what? Best case in point-the proposal scene: SO tender and ardent, with just the right amount of face/hair caressing. And, if anyone thinks this is an aberration-rent the NET!"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (13:26)", "body": "ok Cass...snogging it is! Yes, the proposal scene is very nice indeed. Of course there is altogether too much kissing going on for a Jane Austen novel, but just the right amount for a Jeremy Northam movie! ;-)"}, {"response": 63, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (13:39)", "body": "Oh please, you should see Mr Graves kiss a guy"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (14:29)", "body": "Re 157/56: I didn't realize it was Rupert Graves in The Madness of King George. I get him mixed up with Rupert Elliott. But Graves was hilarious as the Prince of Wales (not a drooling role though)."}, {"response": 65, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (14:41)", "body": "You've got your Ruperts mixed up. Rupert Everett played the son, Rupert Graves played the confidant. The one who tries to protect the King. Prince Charlie could care less what happened to his dad. RG played the King's new Hire."}, {"response": 66, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "There's a Rupert Everett topics at the drool conference"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "No offence folks, but I get so excited when I see that there are new posts in the Jeremy drooling topic, that it is terribly disappointing to discover that the entire conversation is about someone I've never heard of. Could we possibly create a new topic for Mr. Graves? :)"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "Amen, Kaffeine...and Cassandra too - Jeremy certainly can snog! ;) All I can say is Jeremy! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY! JEREMY!!!!!!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (22:36)", "body": "Bravo Kali! To all RG fans, get thee to another topic!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (00:33)", "body": "REg. no. 62 and too much kissing going on for a JA novel. Cheryl-I beg to differ. Those feelings are all present in the novel Emma, between the lines. The proposal occurs after a storm with Emma delighting in the \"exquisite sight, smell, sensation of natu re...tranqil, warm and brilliant. The film medium, being a visual one, and the gifted JN(who incidentially has such soft, tender lips) only brought these very emotions to the surface. They were already there. And as you inferred, there can never be too much kissing in a JN film. THAT BOY CAN KISS!!!! I WOULD SNOGG HIM ANY TIME, ANY PLACE, ANYWHERE. JEREMY-CAN YOU HEAR ME.? IT WORKED FOR ROSIE O'DONNNELL, MAYBE IT WILL WORK FOR ME."}, {"response": 71, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (00:41)", "body": "Upon re-reading some of my more exhuberant homages to our dear Jeremy Knightley(a maiden's blush creeps over my face), it suddenly occurred to me-What would our hero think/do/say if he saw this site? Amusement, accompanied by that enchanting Knightley smi rk(which has driven up many a red-blooded girl's temperature), disgust, a desire to barricade his doors and build an iron gate/fence??? Any other sugestions/comments."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (01:36)", "body": "I asked the same question not long ago regarding all the Firthdrooling going on here and (especially) over at the FOF...I'm sure his mother would be amused... he might be a little frightened, however...;)"}, {"response": 73, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (08:32)", "body": "Maybe take the nearest plane available and fly to the most remote and deserted island he possibly can, and this my actually apply to Mr. Firth as well."}, {"response": 74, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (13:48)", "body": "Johanne, Kali-I fear you are both right. Sniff. And, I'm not the sort of girl who would do/say things like this. I think Cheryl's right-we've kept it in too long. Another question: Presently, What are your all time fav JN romantic scenes/ sexy scenes/ and the JN scene you would most like to have been in? Personally: Fav sexy scene: the boat/beach scene in the Net.(although from what Kaff tells me, I might change my mind after seeing FI) Fav romantic scene: the dance in Emma-the whom are you going to dance with always brings a lump to my throat. Scene I want to be in: (as if you didn't know) the proposal scene. Jn, in addition to such tender lips, has such inviting, protective arms."}, {"response": 75, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "Maestro-music please.(Imagine me lounging across a black steinway a la Michelle Pffiefer) Embrace me, My sweet Embraceable You. Embrace Me, you Irreplaceable You. Just One look at you, my heart grew tipsy in me. You and You alone, bring out the Gypsy in me. I Love all the many Charms about You. Above all-I WANT MY ARMS ABOUT YOU. Don't be a naughty baby. Come to C, DOOOOOooooo My sweet embraceable You."}, {"response": 76, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "Oh Cass, Dear...have you got it baaaaaaaaaad! ;-)"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "Maybe if we all pool our resources, we can buy him! ;)"}, {"response": 78, "author": "winter", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (22:35)", "body": "(drool...drool...drool) WHERE HAVE I BEEN ALL THIS TIME! Thank GOD I've found other JN devotees! I thought I must've been going crazy! (looking in the browers five times a week or so for any more info on JN isn't considerd psychotic here, is it?) you know, i've been wondering the same thing about JN's possible reaction to seeing TWO sites devoted to him (Kaffeine and the JN World Wide). I somewhat feel awkard myself when i imagine him discovering his face and voice plastered all over the WWW. i mo stly wonder what he must think of us! JEREMY, IF YOU'RE READING THIS: I love you! Have a secret rendevous with me! Or how 'bout just getting together for drinks?!"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (03:57)", "body": "JEREMY, IF YOU'RE READING THIS: I love you! Have a secret rendevous with me! Or how 'bout just getting together for drinks?! Okay, you were doing fine up until this part...this is a little psycho...;)"}, {"response": 80, "author": "winter", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (12:34)", "body": "thanks for the sanity check, kali. yes, i am losing it...but it can't be helped. (on a quick side note, if any of you are in the l.a. area, i have just received notice that the making of P&P book has been ordered at the samuel french bookstore in hollywood [sunset/fairfax area], and should be in by next week! )"}, {"response": 81, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (19:25)", "body": "Oh, on a side note, the other day in chat, Amy crowned Kaff Queen of Northamland (by proxy, b/c Kaff wasn't there!), and granted her dual citizenship here in the Republic of Pemberley. I was appointed Ambassador to Northamland and Monaco. ;)"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (00:42)", "body": "I don't know what to say! As the queen, does this mean I get first dibs on him?!"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (00:56)", "body": "Only if you adopt me as a Princess of Northamland! ;)"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (01:53)", "body": "Kaffeine: As the queen, does this mean I get first dibs on him?! Kaff, it's good to be the Queen! ;-)"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (04:58)", "body": "History of the World, Part One. Too easy, Cheryl! --- So Kaff, can I be a Grand Duchess? Pleeze? Pretty-Pleeze?!!"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (04:59)", "body": "Either that, or one of those goofy Mary Engelbreit greeting cards...;) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 40, "subject": "austen.com", "response_count": 50, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (12:27)", "body": "It will take 2-3 days for the Internic to propagate this name to all the servers around the net. Then we can build the website."}, {"response": 2, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (13:20)", "body": "Terry - a million thank yous. What a thoughtful idea."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (13:21)", "body": "It can be called both www.austen.com and jane.austen.com. Both will go to the same site."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (13:21)", "body": "Thank you, Katy."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (15:19)", "body": "Terry, I am speechless. But please do tell what you are getting from this. I hate to be in your debt without knowing how you can benefit from this."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (15:24)", "body": "Terry, I echo Amy's sentiments! It was wonderful of you to do this - but about the $100 Internic fee (not to mention general server expenditures)??"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (15:28)", "body": "I'll take care of all that. I have three servers so there's plenty of server space to handle many more dedicated domains. I'm just happy to see all this happen. The reward will come if some of the folks coming here discover that this is a bigger countr y, with other conferences on books, movies, tv, cultures, etc."}, {"response": 8, "author": "kathleen", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (19:04)", "body": "Sir, you are a gentleman. We are indeed fortunate to have made your acquaintance. Many thanks. Your humble servants, etc."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Saman", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (19:29)", "body": "Ditto to all the above - Terry you are amazing :) Saman"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (21:43)", "body": "Many, many thanks Terry. You are a true gentleman. We are all in your debt. Your humble computer ignoramus, Inko"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (22:33)", "body": "Terry - thanks a million"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (22:34)", "body": "I'm just really glad to see this community of folks on the Spring, that's what the Spring is all about. I love all the activity and I'll help out however I can."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (00:11)", "body": "Wonderful, Wonderful, Capital, Capital"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (00:12)", "body": "Wonderful, Wonderful, Capital, Capital"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (00:12)", "body": "Wonderful, Wonderful, Capital, Capital"}, {"response": 16, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (04:52)", "body": "Terry: Sir you are an Honourable Gentleman to the last. A fine upstanding example of all that is Good with the World. Seriously."}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (08:46)", "body": "Thanks geekman. I am happy that you are enjoying this conference. Should we give Donna the triple award?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (08:57)", "body": "Today, we made it into the Internic database. Results of a whois search: www# whois austen.com Jane Austen Conference on the Spring (AUSTEN-DOM) Rt 2 Box 56R Cedar Creek, TX 78612 USA Domain Name: AUSTEN.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact, Billing Contact: Walhus, Paul (PW30) terry@SPRING.COM 512/310-9903x1044 Record last updated on 24-Nov-96. Record created on 24-Nov-96. Domain servers in listed order: DNS1.SPRING.COM 208.199.212.2 DNS2.SPRING.COM 208.199.212.3 The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information (Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's). Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information. That's a phone number for me that no longer works, however. It should be 512/303-4000."}, {"response": 19, "author": "mich", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (13:42)", "body": "WOW!! Thank you so very much. Ladies & Gents we have a home."}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (15:27)", "body": "austen.com is alive!!!!!! Amy, you may ftp your own content to it now."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (15:30)", "body": "Yeah! Terry, we have not talked since my flood. Are your hardware troubles solved? My mail to you is still bouncing. Could you send me the path again along with the other stuff you captured from our netMeeting session on Wednesday? Too many questinos, I know, but while I suspect you are on I am going to grab you. Did you move from uls1? Just installed the newer versino of NetMeeting and could not find a \"Terry\" Amy"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (15:31)", "body": "Yeah! Terry, we have not talked since my flood. Are your hardware troubles solved? My mail to you is still bouncing. Could you send me the path again along with the other stuff you captured from our netMeeting session on Wednesday? Too many questinos, I know, but while I suspect you are on I am going to grab you. Did you move from uls1? Just installed the newer versino of NetMeeting and could not find a \"Terry\" Amy"}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (15:36)", "body": "ftp 207.113.199.70 will work until the new name propagates."}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (15:48)", "body": "[ URL ftp://rs.internic.net/templates/domain-template.txt ] [ 04/96 ] ******************* Please DO NOT REMOVE Version Number ******************** Domain Version Number: 3.0 **************** Please see attached detailed instructions ***************** ******** Only for registrations under ROOT, COM, ORG, NET, EDU, GOV ******** Authorization 0a. (N)ew (M)odify (D)elete....: M 0b. Auth Scheme................: MAIL-FROM 0c. Auth Info..................: 1. Purpose/Description........: webserver 2. Complete Domain Name.......: austen.com Organization Using Domain Name 3a. Organization Name..........: Jane Austen Conference on the Spring 3b. Street Address.............: Rt 2 Box 56R 3c. City.......................: Cedar Creek 3d. State......................: TX 3e. Postal Code................: 78612 3f. Country Code...............: USA Administrative Contact 4a. NIC Handle (if known)......: PW30 4b. (I)ndividual (R)ole........: Individual 4c. Name.......................: 4d. Organization Name..........: 4e. Street Address.............: 4f. City.......................: 4g. State......................: 4h. Postal Code................: 4i. Country Code...............: 4j. Phone Number...............: 4k. Fax Number.................: 4l. E-Mailbox..................: Technical Contact 5a. NIC Handle (if known)......: PW30 5b. (I)ndividual (R)ole........: Individual 5c. Name.......................: 5d. Organization Name..........: 5e. Street Address.............: 5f. City.......................: 5g. State......................: 5h. Postal Code................: 5i. Country Code...............: 5j. Phone Number...............: 5k. Fax Number.................: 5l. E-Mailbox..................: Billing Contact 6a. NIC Handle (if known)......: PW30 6b. (I)ndividual (R)ole........: Individual 6c. Name.......................: 6d. Organization Name..........: 6e. Street Address.............: 6f. City.......................: 6g. State......................: 6h. Postal Code................: 6i. Country Code...............: 6j. Phone Number...............: 6k. Fax Number.................: 6l. E-Mailbox..................: Primary Name Server 7a. Primary Server Hostname....: dns.bastrop.net 7b. Primary Server Netaddress..: 207.113.199.10 Secondary Name Server(s) 8a. Secondary Server Hostname..: www.austen.com 8b. Secondary Server Netaddress: 207.113.199.70 Invoice Delivery 9. (E)mail (P)ostal...........: E"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (16:59)", "body": "] Did you move from uls1? Just installed the newer versino of NetMeeting and could not find a \"Terry\" _______ I see. You must be online and in the directory to be listed. I did for for a little while this afternoon. Woo. What a town, that ULS1. Can't be a girl standing on the street corner in that town. Amy"}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (17:12)", "body": "I've been out setting up the new austen.com machine. You would have been talking to my empty room had I been online. I set up austen.com on an NT server at a new isp that's just down the road from my place in the country. I'm running on beta NT 4.0 so I have to send for a real registered copy. I'll be on NetMeeting most of the rest of this afternoonand this evening. I just got home. I'm pleased with the installation."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (17:35)", "body": "Terry, you have a dedicated machine for this? I am feeling guiltier by the second. Going for a walk, rain or no. Talk later, maybe. Amy"}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (17:38)", "body": "http://207.113.199.70 should get you there till the Internet picks up the modification request."}, {"response": 29, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (00:22)", "body": "Terry, a very agreable with the right disposition, that of a gentleman you are. All my thanks. Awaiting follow-up info regarding our new castle."}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (10:05)", "body": "My new isp needs some help! I'm going to have them get their dns straightened out so they can register new domains more quickly. They're good guys, they just need a little boost in this area. I'm going to have a meeting with them today."}, {"response": 31, "author": "PatK", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (10:13)", "body": "Terry -- That's truly what I call gentlemanlike behavior. We are all indebted to you and your kindness."}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (15:04)", "body": "I'm over at Bastrop Internet Services and I've just successfully completed the Internic registration so pretty soon you should be able to access http://www.austen.com The first person who could get to it, please let me know!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (15:38)", "body": "] http://www.austen.com The first person who could get to it, please let me know! _________ Terry I will post this over in the Drawing Room, right near Darcy's sopha so no one shall miss it. Respond here the best thing? We sure appreciate all your trouble. Can you see the files I FTPed over there?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (15:51)", "body": "We're going to re-install NT 4.0 so you'll have to ftp them again."}, {"response": 35, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (19:37)", "body": "The DNS server at my ISP cannot yet find an entry for http://www.austen.com"}, {"response": 36, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (21:07)", "body": "]The DNS server at my ISP cannot yet find an entry for http://www.austen.com Nor mine. Myretta"}, {"response": 37, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (22:36)", "body": "It usually takes a couple of days for the new address to propagate through the net. But a 'whois' search now pulls up the correct ip address."}, {"response": 38, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (22:39)", "body": "I can't get there yet either except by way of: http://207.113.199.70"}, {"response": 39, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (10:27)", "body": "We were down for part of yesterday and last night and for this, I apologize. I just fired up the web server which wasn't running for some reason. I'll be going to a very advanced training program over the next few weeks to learn how to administer a secure, bullet proof web server and I hope to apply a lot of the priniples I learn to keeping this server running. This is the first major outage we've had for a while. I also hope that we can solidify a team and work on some projects together. Please, if you're on the unix dream team, check into projects today and let me know what aspects of building this site and helping with html on other websites that you can commit to. I'm just getting to know everyone and I'm very open to your letters and comments, even if I don't always have the answer. Together, we have a lot more answers. Also, Dave posted the ftp address of the administrators guide in the yapp conference. I believe that will be very useful to our team. I am glad to see folks using the unix login shell."}, {"response": 40, "author": "davros", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (12:26)", "body": "Folks, Paul says he won't be near a terminal for some time, so he asked me to rela...bleh... the following important announcement...which I will do, if Zoe, the cat, doesn't walk on the keyboard, and as Karl, the golden retriever, crunches on a Nylabone... The IP number for www.austen.com ends in .71, not .70 as stated elsewhere. We now return you to your regularly scheduled banter... --Buddy"}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (15:08)", "body": "I'm over at UT borrowing a terminal ... thanks budmeister."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (15:21)", "body": "Go look up HC, Terry. Give us a complete report."}, {"response": 43, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (18:39)", "body": "Amy, why didn't you say \"Go look up Terry, HC. Give us a complete report.\"?? I actually wasn't on campus today... If you go to the basement of the Undergraduate Library, you can telnet from the X-terminals in the back without having a UT account; that's where I often hang out when I'm on campus..."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (19:17)", "body": "] Amy, why didn't you say \"Go look up Terry, HC. Give us a complete report.\"?? _____ Because you are the confessed introvert."}, {"response": 45, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (22:25)", "body": "I was in the Library for a while. I went cavorting around with my friend Bob, we were in stitchesw most of the afternoon. Buddy left to meet us but forgot his money order to pay his bill. The he got delayed by his coke in the student union. But he finally made it, with some prodding, over to Bobs with his picture to be scanned. Back to watching P&P."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Kathy", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (21:55)", "body": "Not sure where this stands now, but my Web browser still can't pull up www.austen.com, get a DNS error instead..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (22:04)", "body": "It is not going yet, Kathy."}, {"response": 48, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (22:49)", "body": "It should be resolving soon. Matt's working on my primary dns server and bastrop.net is taking the steps they need to register their own domains."}, {"response": 49, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Feb  1, 2001 (07:26)", "body": "I just reread the beginnings to this topic: Item 40 entered Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (13:25) by Paul Terry Walhus (terry) austen.com In the interests of giving this conference a stronger identity I have just received approval of the name austen.com and I will set up a website at http://www.austen.com This will be for Amy and this group to build content and to give you a stronger identity. The server engines will easily find this and this can become a global magnet for any activity around Jane Austen. I'm proud and happy to be able to help this group in this way. 48 new of 48 responses total. Topic 40 of 219: 'austen.com' Resp 1 of 48: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (13:27) 2 lines It will take 2-3 days for the Internic to propagate this name to all the servers around the net. Then we can build the website. Topic 40 of 219: 'austen.com' Resp 2 of 48: Katy Kendall (kendall) Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (14:20) 1 lines Terry - a million thank yous. What a thoughtful idea. Topic 40 of 219: 'austen.com' Resp 3 of 48: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (14:21) 2 lines It can be called both www.austen.com and jane.austen.com. Both will go to the same site."}, {"response": 50, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Mar 19, 2001 (09:21)", "body": "Updates? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 41, "subject": "Wedding scene - who's Wickham in bed with?", "response_count": 5, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (22:16)", "body": "I agree that she did not look like Lydia - but I think she was at least supposed to be Lydia - a stand-in or a completely new hairdo or something!!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Karen", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (22:22)", "body": "Ladies, ladies. I know the man is a dog but that is Lydia. If you are used to seeing Julia S. (Lydia), her hair is usually down. No, that's Lydia in the bed. I think that seen is meant to show Wickham's growing disallusionment with Lydia. He is still drinking and she is trying to frolick. This does not seem to be a good sign for newly wedded couple."}, {"response": 3, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (11:17)", "body": "I gathered that he was in bed with Lydia. What is the Minister's Voiceover during this cut? Something about \"Those who fornicate. . .\" isn't it?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:57)", "body": "I agree...I think the Director was refering to Lydia and Wickham having lived together before they were married...a no-no back then...and I agree the picture that was shown of the \"newleyweds\" did not show a happy couple. In the book, JA points out that Lydia would come and stay at Pemberley when her husband had gone to London or Bath \"to enjoy himself\". Tsk-Tsk...we can only imagine Wickhams way of enjoying himself....I'm sure that old dog stayed playing his old tricks!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "catie", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (21:25)", "body": "Thanks for clearing this up for me. I watched the scene several times and wasn't sure if it was Lydia or not. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 42, "subject": "conference business", "response_count": 145, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (00:10)", "body": "Who knows, you may find a home *here*."}, {"response": 2, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (03:44)", "body": "Thank you, Terry, for the use of your hall! :-)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (03:45)", "body": "Thank you, Terry, for the use of your hall! :-)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (06:59)", "body": "Hi gang - glad to be here!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (07:58)", "body": "G'day Terry, Well I suppose it's about time I also voted a thanks to you for allowing this debate and maybe room on your server. And I'm a bloke too - that's Aussie for a male. Yes I'm a JA/P&P2 fanatic too."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (10:38)", "body": "This is great terry. You don't know what your in for. This place will be \"hottest\""}, {"response": 7, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (10:59)", "body": "We'll Amy, it worked, and I'm here. Thank God. Looking forward to chatting!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (11:31)", "body": "Good, Rebecca. Pray tell how you accomplished it so I can know how to help others who have trouble getting in."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (11:33)", "body": "Actually, why don't we start a new Help topic. We can also get help at the Yapp conference but that stuff goes on a wider mailing list than just this Spring site. We could discuss our own tech troubles here then send an emissary over to post the summary at the Yapp conference. Sound okay to you guys?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (12:11)", "body": "Hey, it's great to find this place-it would serve as a surrogate P&P2 board! Thanks for letting us use this- is there somewhere I could find more about using this? Great to see you all! Marsha"}, {"response": 11, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (13:08)", "body": "Amy -- \"You're a bagel-biting, toad-mashing, back-froodler!!\""}, {"response": 12, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (16:07)", "body": "Let me add my thanks as well for the use of this site. Mich"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (17:26)", "body": "Hi Everybody. Glad to find you."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Adi", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (17:34)", "body": "Terry, thank you very much!, I'm very glad to be here."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (18:30)", "body": "Terry, thank you so much for inviting us in. We were all desperate, and are happy to have found a new home."}, {"response": 16, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (18:49)", "body": "G'day, Amy I don't mind being the group's emissary as I suggested I am already the sacrificial lamb on alt.config who has proposed a Jane Austen Newsgroup. No reponses yet though."}, {"response": 17, "author": "DonnaT", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (00:31)", "body": "Thanks Terry for giving us a new home (does it come with instructions?)..."}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (10:36)", "body": "Yeah, you can click on the help button. Also, when you telnet in and use your shell account, there's detailed help. Do you use telnet Amy?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (10:54)", "body": "One bit of advice abouting posting, if you double click on the submit button you may post *two* or more copies of your response. One click of the mouse is all ya' need!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "eryn", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (15:57)", "body": "What a lovely thing - to know I am not the only person who sacrifices entire days watching A&E-PP... and that you have a home to chat .. it's almost too good to be true."}, {"response": 21, "author": "redfive", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (08:48)", "body": "Well, I finally found my way here - following links from so many sites in my quest for a P&P2 fix. Mind you, here in the UK I can comfort myself by visiting locations used in the series. Last month I was at Lyme Park (ie Pemberley)..."}, {"response": 22, "author": "redfive", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (08:48)", "body": "Well, I finally found my way here - following links from so many sites in my quest for a P&P2 fix. Mind you, here in the UK I can comfort myself by visiting locations used in the series. Last month I was at Lyme Park (ie Pemberley)..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "lampa", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (12:41)", "body": "hello everybody ! Nice to have found you again I hope Amy will soon get the P&P 2 BB going again otherwhise we poor addicts will go insane or;);) Anna-Karin"}, {"response": 24, "author": "carolee", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (16:02)", "body": "Hi y'all I've been lurking at Amy's BB and then was away from home for 5 weeks so was terribly disappointed when I got back. Let me add my thanks for this location to all of you. Two of the 5 weeks were in England where I visited Lyme Park, i.e. Pemberley, and Lacock, i.e. Meryton. Also worshipped at the shrine of JA's house in Chawton. Spent all of last night watching my tapes from start to finish so am finally at peace again. Looking forward to chatting with all of you. Carol"}, {"response": 25, "author": "JanBruner", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (12:38)", "body": "Thanks, Terry. I'm glad to have been able to get into the new location. I've been lurking on the P&P2 BB for a couple of months and enjoy it tremendously. I miss Amy's Board, but at least there is something here now."}, {"response": 26, "author": "JanBruner", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (13:54)", "body": "Thanks, Terry. I'm glad to have been able to get into the new location. I've been lurking on the P&P2 BB for a couple of months and enjoy it tremendously. I miss Amy's Board, but at least there is something here now."}, {"response": 27, "author": "arnessa", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (18:35)", "body": "Hi all, I guess I just figured out how to use this thing. It's like coming home again! Thanks, Terry. I'm so jealous of the people who've been to the \"real\" Pemberley."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (06:11)", "body": "Hello to you all from a somewhat new P&P2 addict, or a \"Jane Junkie\". Do you welcome new people into your fold? I too, watch P&P for hours at a time. My four year old can quote lines to the movie. A future addict? Glad to be here."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (07:00)", "body": "] Do you welcome new people ___________________ Of course, Leslie. One of the characteristics of our disesae is that we push the addiction. How did you find us? Amy"}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (12:29)", "body": "Amy, I like your new conference header with all the links. Y'all don't have to think of yourselves as temporary here. You can settle in for the long haul if you find this place to your liking. There's so much we can all do together. I love this group."}, {"response": 31, "author": "norma", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (15:16)", "body": "Is this site for real? I have been trying to connect to the P&P2 chat line for the past week, and I'm not sure that I've made the right connections. Am I there?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (15:21)", "body": "Norma, you have just entered the twilight zone. I don't know if you'll ever make it back. But I think you've found the right place."}, {"response": 33, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (23:29)", "body": "] I have been trying to connect to the P&P2 chat line for the past week You are in the discussion room, which is fortunate, for if you met us at first in the chat room, you might question our sanity. If yuo want to chat less formally, go to: http://www.worldrch.com/cgibin/Chat/nph-chat.cgi?chat_room=Northam and look in the pop-up menu for the Pemberley room. Joan, too"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (05:57)", "body": "To AMY, of BB Fame I am not that computer literate. I heard about the Jane Austen Society, from all places, TV Food Network. I told my husband that I was going to call my local University, (USC), thats SC, not CA! to find out how to join. My very literate computer brain husband said, \"don't bother\", go to the internet. I was amazed at all the info on Jane Austen. That is where I found your BB. I loved all the info on it! The links were fabulous. My husband has been very supportive to my addiction. See you at Pemberly!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (07:59)", "body": "Re: Jane Austen Society Go to http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janausoc.html ."}, {"response": 36, "author": "norma", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (14:56)", "body": "Like the rest of you, I am a P&P2 fanatic. You don't know how happy I am to have found some fellow Janeites! Is there any particular time of the day that people spend in the chat room? I'd love to get in on some discussions."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Leslie", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (18:48)", "body": "To the Mysterious H.C. Thankyou for the help with the Jane Austin Society, but I joined a few weeks ago. By the way, do you have the A&E/BBC version of P&P? Are there pictures of Darcy etc..."}, {"response": 38, "author": "sasha", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (20:02)", "body": "Hello: I was wondering if someone could help me. I have to write a paper on P&P. I have only read the book. I have not seen it on t.v. I am suppose to write about a theme in the book and do an oral presentation but i cant choose marriage. Any ideas please help me."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (21:50)", "body": "Sasha - here's an idea that I've been toying around with for quite a while. How about a paper of Art (or artifice) vs. Nature (or natural). I'm thinking of Elizabeth as representative of nature or a natural person (she liked to walk outdoors, didn't put on airs, etc.) vs. Caroline Bingley who is all artifice (she walked only when others could admire her), put a lot of stock in a person's manner of walking, tone of voice, etc., and altogether gave herself very artificial airs. I am sure there are a lot ore examples in the book, if you look for them."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (00:50)", "body": "Ahh, here at last. Good morning everybody and warm thanks to Terry for the shelter provided. It *is* a bit tricky to find your way around, I seem to get to the right places by mere chance. But then I suppose it is because I have not taken the trouble to practise/use the help button. Must try to improve as 'others' have done before me. Time for work now, best wishes Ann2"}, {"response": 41, "author": "PatK", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (01:15)", "body": "I've finally been able to meet you all here --and the location is very appreciated. I've been out of town since last Friday and have missed you all."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (09:55)", "body": "] I've finally been able to meet you all here --and the location is very appreciated. I've been out of town since last Friday and have missed you all. ______________- We missed you, too, dear."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Bobbi", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (20:45)", "body": "Good day, I am a member of a newly formed book club in Indiana. Our first month we read Hemingway and this month we read P&P. I could not make it through the novel during college... I was much like Lydia... but now could not put it down. We have our meeting tomorrow. If anyone has anything they feel I could take to the group as enlightenment, I would appreciate it."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (22:46)", "body": "Well let's see.... I) One of the main themes in Austen and in Austen's day was the difference between nature and artiface. P&P can be read as the struggle between behaving in a natural way (Lizzy) and a more cultured or artificial way (Darcy). The same comparisons can be made between Lydia and Lizzy, and in fact many of the other characters. Austen seems to come down in the middle. Both Darcy and Lizzy must adopt some of the other's characteristics before they can come together. II) Austen loves to foreshadow! For example: Collins' proposal and what he says to Lizzy is a wonderful foreshadowing of her relationship with Darcy: --You are to poor to be able to expect any other offers, then she gets one from one of the richest men in England. --The fashion for young ladies to refuse the man they secretly mean to marry. There is lots of stuff to discuss on that one--when did Lizzy fall in love with Darcy? Perhaps it was much earlier than she could admit even to herself. Was Lizzy, perhaps subconciously, struggling with her heart as much as Darcy? but where his heart won the battle, Lizzy's head stayed firmly in control. When we think of Lizzy(nature) and Darcy(artiface) we usually think of Lizzy being ruled by her heart and feelings (though alw ys properly tempered by her head) while we think of Darcy being ruled by his head, but in their early relationship perhaps these were reversed. Darcy was ruled more by his heart and Lizzy by her head. Another foreshadow is the discussion/arguement between Lizzy and Darcy about a friend being easily persuaded to change his designs at only a suggestion from the friend. Darcy seemed to look down on anyone so weak-kneed, but then persuades Bingley to break off his attachment to Miss Bennet. III) There are lots of characters that can be compared and contrasted to one another: --Lydia v Georgiana (both attached to Wickham) --Mrs. Bennet v Lady Catherine (both Lizzy and Darcy have unfortunate relations) --Wickham v Darcy (same upbringing--very different results) --Wickham v Fitzwilliam (both relatively poor, but one a slime ball and the other respectable) --Darcy v Bingley (nature vs artiface again, also determination and personal strength vs some degree of wimpyness) --Mr. Bennet v Darcy (one responsible the other irresponible) --Lizzy v Charlotte (marrying for love vs marrying for more material considerations.) --Jane v Lizzy (one energetic and spirited the other calmm and serene.) IV) The changing views of the class structure. Darcy discovers that the Gardiners, who are on a very different social level from himself, are good, intellegent and interesting people, who, taken for themselves--without reference to their place in society, are certainly worthy of Darcy's aquaintance. Also Caroline Bingley's convenient amnesia about where her family's money comes from (trade). She looks down on the Bennets, when her own history must be similar only a generation or two back. V) And of course the themes of pride and prejudice . Both Darcy and Lizzy suffer from both. It is only when they each overcome these faults, that they can come together. I hope that something above will help."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (04:08)", "body": "] Good day, I am a member of a newly formed book club in Indiana. __________ Bobbi, welcome. Where in Indiana? I am in Bloomington. Did Ann give you enough fodder or would you like several more days worth of P&P conversation starters? Amy"}, {"response": 46, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (12:39)", "body": "] P&P can be read as the struggle between behaving in a natural way (Lizzy) and a more cultured or artificial way (Darcy). Anne, I actually always considered Elizabeth to be the more ``acculturated'' and Darcy to be more ``natural'', in the sense that he can't be bothered with some of the small everyday social conventionalites that keep the wheels greased. The Elizabeth-Darcy contrast is similar in some ways to the Elinor-Marianne contrast in S&S , where Marianne can never be bothered to utter little polite lies. Elizabeth is very much her own person, and isn't afraid of going slightly against the conventionalities from time to time, but I see the basic Darcy-Elizabeth contrast as above..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (17:40)", "body": "I think you have everyone stumped with your mystery quote, churchh! Thanks for coming over to the 'books' conference and keeping company with Mixu. I encourage others to visit this conference and pump it up a bit. There are other good topics like the mystery quote."}, {"response": 48, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (19:23)", "body": "Was the Spring down or something today? Someone sent me e-mail asking if I was able to get on - but I did not have time to try it from school today. Seems to be find now..."}, {"response": 49, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (19:55)", "body": "Not that I know of, we may have a minor dns glitch. I'm looking into it. If you can't get to http://www.spring.com then go to http://208.199.212.4 which is the same place in iptalk. You may want to go there now and bookmark it for future reference."}, {"response": 50, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (20:49)", "body": "\"then go to http://208.199.212.4 which is the same place in iptalk.\" Was just over at Pemberly, and Kaff just put that link in the header over there."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (20:51)", "body": "Very kind of you to do so, Kaff."}, {"response": 52, "author": "paola", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (19:41)", "body": "I am so glad to have found you again. I was getting worried that the board would just never be up again. By the way, did you guys see the new pictures of Colin Firth and Jennifer Ehle in the Friends of Firth homepage. They look quite different I tell you. Claudia"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Paola", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (11:21)", "body": "Hi! I know I am knew but I desperately love Pride and Prejudice and hope I may be allowed to join this conference board. I am also having a lot of problems trying with links. Paola PS Colin and Jennifer"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Paola", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (11:22)", "body": "Hi! It is me again I hope anyone out there can please help me because I am having a lot of problems putting up links. I've tried everything and I just can't seem to do it. Paola"}, {"response": 55, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (11:27)", "body": "Don't bother with all the tags: Just put up your links like this: http://www.firely.com You don't need to use any html codes. Just put up the links exactly like the one above. And you'll be fine."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Paola", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (18:29)", "body": "OK here it goes http://www.iupui.edu/~rogersc/PicSite/col_jen2.htm"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Paola", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (18:32)", "body": "Thank You Terry. Just one more question, what does one do to actually make the picture appear in the document and not for it to be linked? Paola"}, {"response": 58, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (10:24)", "body": "No offense to Amy, your BB was great and was my first love. But like first love, you meet others and your taste focussed on what you prefer and I like Terry's way of presenting topics and posts. Easier to select topics and it's nice to see them all at once. The possibility of selecting, all-new-1 week, etc. is a major plus. When you're talking of having our new BB back, can't it be possible to have it here? Tell me if I missed something..."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (10:55)", "body": "No, Johanne. Our plans are to keep it here."}, {"response": 60, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (12:12)", "body": "I hope you all are here for the long haul. We are, you know, masters of our own destiney and we're not \"stuck\" with anything."}, {"response": 61, "author": "tang", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (00:33)", "body": "anyone here?? this is my first time on this line so bear with me. i would just like to say that i absolutely love john davies version of pride and prejudice on a&e. anyone else?"}, {"response": 62, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (00:41)", "body": "Tang, you are in the best place to ask that question, since everyone else here will agree with you wholeheartedly!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (17:58)", "body": "Help! I just found y'all and I have been on the computer off and on for two days trying to figure out where to go to \"chat\" with a fellow P&P addict. Can you help me? I have left messages on the BB but have not yet figured out this conference center...admitting that I am a novice but determined to get within the group....thank you all for being there..until just a few days ago I thought \"what is wrong with me? I can't get enough of this P&P..then I wondered if there just might be others....God Bless all f you out there who made me feel alot better about this addiction I have acquired...I have found other books, bios, etc....but where is an Austenite to go to discuss every detail.........Linda"}, {"response": 64, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (18:06)", "body": "Linda, there is a link to it in the \"links\" at the top of the page - the URL is: http://www.worldrch.com/cgibin/Chat/nph-chat.cgi?chat_room=Northam \"but where is an Austenite to go to discuss every detail\" However, you will find the most detailed discussion of such things right here in these topics."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (18:11)", "body": "Linda, be sure when you get to the entry of the chat room that you select \"Pemberley Drawing Room\" the default is set for the Northam Room, so you must change that. We're glad you found us! You will find this place simply crawling with folks reveling in this \"addiction\"!"}, {"response": 66, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (22:20)", "body": "Linda: Hi, fellow southerner. We mostly just goof off in the chat room - but we do it in a very Austen-tacious way. Do drop in and find out if you like us. I live in Oak Ridge, TN - Close enough to GA to know that the most direct way to everywhere is throught the Atlanta airport!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (22:24)", "body": "Glad you found us Linda. Just jump in."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (13:40)", "body": "Katy, I pass right by Oak Ridge on I-40 at least once per year on my way to my hometown, Nashville. Linda (the one who has been here since September)"}, {"response": 69, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (17:45)", "body": "Linda409 - where do you live now?"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (08:24)", "body": "Upstate New York; 65 miles north of NYCity. We may not be making that drive as often in the future. At age 22, we thought nothing of jumping in the car and driving straight through; 17-hours with 2 stops for gas. At 44 (or thereabouts), started making a 2-day trip of it; stopping in western Virginia. At 50+, we are beginning to think that flight is a better choice. Linda"}, {"response": 71, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (09:22)", "body": "I tried to link to the Pemberly chat room and when I get there....there is alot of \"computer language\" but no chatting...what am I doing wrong? I have gotten into that several times....get the same thing each time...HElp!"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (09:24)", "body": "I can't imagine. Kaff?"}, {"response": 73, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "Something else... Been sting with the bug again : all new has become all AGAIN! Terry, why is it doing this, what's the meaning for this? Am I doing something wrong?"}, {"response": 74, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (09:39)", "body": "Johanne, it hits all of us at random. Hopefully the bug will be fixed in the new version for it is most annoying -- especially in a conference with this much traffic. I am sure it took me close to 45 minutes to load every topic again when it happened to me."}, {"response": 75, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (09:42)", "body": "Thanks Amy, you're giving hope after all."}, {"response": 76, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (09:43)", "body": "Thanks Amy, you're giving hope after all."}, {"response": 77, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (10:15)", "body": "Johanne, Were you doing anything unusual when this happened? Had you just added a topic or reloaded a page. . . Anything at all? Thanks."}, {"response": 78, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (11:11)", "body": "Actualy, just press the submit button entering a post. When the screen reappeared, it was kind of frozen at the top of the page, could not scroll down. Then, I press the reload button to view the full page and it seems to have posted my message twice at the same time. The End."}, {"response": 79, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (12:34)", "body": "and while rereading the posts, our BB front page has change with the addition of very cute colored buttons and no details of virtview by Cheryl. Enough to puzzle me..."}, {"response": 80, "author": "amy", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (00:47)", "body": "See the new calendar, Johanne."}, {"response": 81, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (02:20)", "body": "\"and while rereading the posts, our BB front page has change with the addition of very cute colored buttons and no details of virtview by Cheryl. Enough to puzzle me...\" Could this mean that \"everything old is new\" happened to Johanne while someone was editing the main page? That has long been a suspicion of mine, though I did not have the presence of mind to pay attention to this when I happened to me."}, {"response": 82, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (10:38)", "body": "I've the same problem as Linda, can't get into the Pemberly chat room, simply get something that looks like FORTRAN??? Am also having a great deal of trouble loading all the new input after a week of non-viewing...am getting cut off and told to go back to GO and start over."}, {"response": 83, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (10:41)", "body": "] Am also having a great deal of trouble loading all the new input after a week of non-viewing...am getting cut off and told to go back to GO and start over. __ Here, Elaine?"}, {"response": 84, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (10:43)", "body": "Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 06:07:09 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Spurgeon Message-Id: To: terry@spring.com Subject: RealAudio help Saw your post in the web conference about needing realAudio help. I'll be happy to take a look, if you'd like. I installed Real Audio on my BSDI system (at http://whyy.org) . Feel free to e-mail me or give me a call at 215-351-3315 (that's in Philadelphia). I'll be in the office starting this afternoon at about 1PM, Eastern time, but you can leave a message. Ignore this message if you've already solved the problem! Chris Spurgeon"}, {"response": 85, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:45)", "body": "1:82 - simply get something that looks like FORTRAN??? You are not, by some chance, using a non-graphical browser, and seeing the room from \"backstage\" decorated in full (or in some cases, only partial - hee hee) html tags?"}, {"response": 86, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:49)", "body": "\"get something that looks like FORTRAN???' Can you capture a bit of it and post it here?"}, {"response": 87, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (15:45)", "body": "Joan, I can't capture what I see. When I copy it here and then try to submit it, I get an error message as follows: Error: Illegal HTML tag found:HTML It will not allow me to submit the information. Evidently, I am trying to copy some html tags. I will try to substitute periods for carrots and see if that is acceptable. .HTML. .HEAD. .TITLE. The British Gentlem n's Club./TITLE. ./HEAD. .BODY background=\"/northam/image/pa1053.jpg\". I assume that when I submit the above, the spacing will be messed up since that is another problem. Hopefully, this makes sense to someone."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (16:26)", "body": "Oh, you are getting the html file in text form, Elaine. What browser do you use? Does this site (Spring) give you graphics?"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (18:17)", "body": "I don't know what browser I use. Does Prodigy ring a bell? Sometimes I get graphics but often I get a screen with Mona Lisa saying \"Image Missing\". Also, I think the go back to GO messages are from Prodigy as I get them at other sites. I am admittedly a dilettante but excessively diverted by this site."}, {"response": 90, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (18:42)", "body": "Elaine, I am sorely tempted to say \"get another service.\" No slam to Prodigy; I used to do some work for them. But I hate to see someone enter into this addiction without an unlimited account. It could get expensive. You might resort to crime to support your habit. You might want to check and see that you have the latest version of Prodigy's brower. Try to download the new one and Prodigy should tell you if you already have the latest, if you don't need it. Short of that, I can't think. We will ask Kaff if she knows of any problems reported by other Prodigy users. Kaffeine runs the chat rooms, it's related to us here, but on a different server."}, {"response": 91, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (01:30)", "body": "Watson strikes again! (Sherlock would have thought to look at your e-mail address, and thus would have known right away that it was a Prodigy problem!) Kaff did respond, but she did it in the calendar topic, I think - something to the effect that Prodigy's browser is non standard? Maybe someone will find it and bring it back here before I do? I do agree with those who advise a different ISP - last time I saw that interface in action (some time ago, I admit) it was slooooooooooow, and the combination of a slow interface with timed charges is most uneconomical even if the browser were error free!"}, {"response": 92, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "Yikes! A life of crime to support my addiction. It sounds serious. Tonight I can't post and barely able to load. I'm sure to be cut off shortly."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (06:34)", "body": "Maybe someone can help me with this. When I have proxies switched on and try to get into the chat room, Netscape throws out the following message : You have started to download the file \"nph\ufffdchat.cgi\", of the type \"magnus-internal/cgi\". Clock \"More Info\" to learn how to extend Navigator's capibilities. I can get in with Proxies turned off but it is much slower. It also makes accessing Spring nigh on impossible."}, {"response": 94, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (07:25)", "body": "My computer tries to download in chat sometimes when my cache is too full."}, {"response": 95, "author": "bernie", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (07:47)", "body": "I've emptied my cache and it still does it!"}, {"response": 96, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "Elaine, could it be that Prodigy is keeping us from the complete enjoyment of our addiction...I am all astonishment! I must have my P&P fellow addicts....I just may have to supply other alternatives....I mean, there's information that cannot be revealed to us! What else can we do?"}, {"response": 97, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (16:19)", "body": "Linda, I'm going to try one of those free AOL disks that keeing coming in the mail."}, {"response": 98, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (18:10)", "body": "I am not able to get into the Pemberly in AOL either. However, I get a different message, \"Cannot retrieve http://www.worldrch.com/cgibin....Northam \""}, {"response": 99, "author": "amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (21:14)", "body": "Oh dear, Elaine. We have to defer to Kaff on this. I will ask her about it."}, {"response": 100, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "Moved to collapse topics: Topic 133 of 140: New calendar Mon, Jan 6, 1997 (15:06) | Amy ( Amy ) Kaff was nice enough to modify a calendar script for our use in posting VirtView and other dates. It is linked from the main Austen conference page here. And here is another link to it . We can use this topic to discuss films we wish to view before putting them up on the calendar. 19 new of 20 responses total."}, {"response": 1, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (18:06)", "body": "Amy, I like the 'it' , the old P&P logo on calendar head and I LOL when I saw the 'another year' possibility. It feels so safe to know what to do with spare time during the years to come."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (04:11)", "body": "I really like the calendar, thanks Kaff! As the Semi-official coordinator of the VirtViews, I have a couple of suggestions. Although the calendar allows you to enter items on the calendar, please don't! That's something that can get out of hand real fast if we aren't careful! ;-) Use this topic here to discuss any movie that you would like to have as a VirtView and if there is a favorable response, I will add it to the schedule. Amy suggested using the calendar for birthday notices, which is a great idea, much easier to follow than our Birthday topic here (although we should still use it to send birthday greetings) so feel free to enter your birthday on the calendar (but don't enter that \"very special episode of Fraiser\" that you feel we should all see! ;-)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (14:44)", "body": "Cheryl - I agree. I conceived of the calendar as a place where anyone could add their birthday - but only you would be adding virt views. I've added a line under the month that says \"Please add your b-day, but let Cheryl add the virt views\". Also, if you add a post and need to change or delete it, from the monthly view, click on the link for the day of the entry. On that page you will have buttons for \"Modify Item\" and \"Delete Item\"."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (15:35)", "body": "Kaffeine: \"Cheryl - I agree. I conceived of the calendar as a place where anyone could add their birthday - but only you would be adding virt views. I've added a line under the month that says \"Please add your b-day, but let Cheryl add the virt views\". Ah! The POWER!!! Buhwahahahahahaha!!! ;-)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (15:44)", "body": "Cheryl (missed you last night in chat room, had my Coming out Ball) and Amy, I've been compiling a graphic of us posteree and posterettes with ages, place or origin,etc. It really helped me to get to know each + saw Myretta on TV and like putting her face on her name. Which leads me to this : wondering if any would be interested in having a calender type graphic of including a photo and few details on each of us. And would only be able to access it by password, for confidentiality of course. Any one?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (15:47)", "body": "Johanne, are you still around? Shall we meet at Pemberley?? :-)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (15:50)", "body": "And off we go..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (17:26)", "body": "The picture sounds interesting, Johanne. Do it."}, {"response": 9, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (19:49)", "body": "Johanne, I was thinking I'd borrow a digital camera for \"Austen in Boston\". What do you think?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (06:10)", "body": "Myretta, at last, and who's in charge of logistic for this trip? Are you the head huncho? Camera is a wonderful idea, let keep a photographical journal of it and share it. After this first question, I've got tonnes of others to go along..."}, {"response": 11, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (06:14)", "body": "Amy, would love to but am now computer-close-to-illiterate so imagine what I can do with it. Any suggestions. My hubby has a scanner at work, (he's a graphic artist specializing in cartooning) ...."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (06:18)", "body": "] (he's a graphic artist specializing in cartooning) .... ___ Oh-oh. You shouldn'ta oughta told us that."}, {"response": 13, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (07:51)", "body": "And he's a sweetheart, ask and you shall receive, anything for you Amy. For those of you in Boston, he did a cartoon : Guinness (the little dog) for a couple of year, for a local-scene irish bar infoguide at the demand of my Aussie friend now living down under. (what a tale)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (07:52)", "body": "and for you Terry"}, {"response": 15, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:02)", "body": "Will be happy to take care of it Amy, but just let me know what you think, some feedback please? Any details you would like in particular, should Cheryl or you make the official demand to all?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:04)", "body": "How come it written 8:02 when here it's 12:52 (eastern) in the morning? it's usually one hour prior"}, {"response": 17, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (16:28)", "body": "Johanne, Didn't you get my email? We are proposing tea at the Ritz-Carlton on a Sunday and would like to know what dates are available. Please email me at mrobens@hbsp.harvard.edu."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (00:04)", "body": "No, I've never heard from anyone on the Prodigy browser. My only guess it that it has trouble with the text/html tag that the script uses (it must be translating the html as text). I agree with Amy's advice - why pay by the minute when there are so many internet providers that offer unlimited access (and the ability to use Netscape)."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "Boy has this topic veered from its original prupose! ;-)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "] veered from its original prupose variety in pruposes is such an advantage don't you think?"}, {"response": 101, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (09:25)", "body": "I have just spent 4 days trying to download the new Prodigy Internet in hopes that it would enable me to get into the live chat...last night I finally finished...went into the Pemberly Drawing Room and was told I need to download a plug-in with magnus internallcgi??????Does anyone know if this is right and if so...how do I get it? Linda in GA."}, {"response": 102, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (09:47)", "body": "Oh dear, Linda. You are having a time. If the Progigy browser required this plug in, Prodigy ought to provide it. Get indignant with the help staff there and tell them how long you have been futzing with trying to access this simple site with their stupid browser. I think you can also now use Netscape or MSIE with Prodigy service. When you write to help, ask about how to do that as well. When you finally get in, we'll have a party."}, {"response": 103, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (16:07)", "body": "Amy, I will give it a try....I'll get my party hat...just hope Prodigy doesn't pop my balloon......."}, {"response": 104, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (07:38)", "body": "Linda, please let me know if you find a cure for the Prodigy woes. I am currently using both Prodigy and AOL but find the only difference is the error message. Do you have trouble getting into any of the topics, especially after \"old is new\" stikes."}, {"response": 105, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (11:38)", "body": "Okay, I have installed Prodigy and tested it out, and I have bad news. Apparently Prodigy connects you to the internet through a proxy server. A regular internet connection (from a local ISP) would be Your Computer ---> Remote Server ---> Your Computer On Prodigy, the proxy server adds an interim step: Your Computer ---> Prodigy Proxy Server ---> Remote Server ---> Prodigy Proxy Server ---> Your Computer So anything that you try to get from a server on the internet must first pass through Prodigy's server on its way to you. Unfortunately, Prodigy's server is not set up for calling a CGI script directly. You can call up a web page with a form that uses CGI, but the chat room calls the script directly, not through a form. When I asked Prodigy about this, all they would tell me is that Prodigy offers some nice chat rooms. Duh! (which, BTW, they do by launching an IRC program) Of course, the guy I spoke to didn't even know what a CGI script was.... I can't think of a way to get around this problem. Even if I changed it so that the first form you fill out to get into the room is actually an html document, once you are in the room, by necessity it has to call the script directly to refresh the messages. So, unfortunately, my only recommendation right now is, unless there is content on Prodigy that you feel you would miss, you should probably get a local Internet Provider. There are tons of them, just about everywhere. Here's a link to a list of providers: http://thelist.iworld.com/"}, {"response": 106, "author": "amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (12:45)", "body": "Thanks for looking into it, Kaf. At least now we know."}, {"response": 107, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "Yes, many thanks. I am a recreational user of this machine and not given that much flexibilty in deciding components/software. Still, I hope to experiment with others."}, {"response": 108, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (16:22)", "body": "I add my thanks...Does this info include the \"new\" and \"improved\" program called Prodigy Internet (the most up to date program says Prodigy)???? I am such a novice using computers and Prodigy has been so user friendly (until now!) it may take a step forward to plunge into something else in order to get the full advantage of the group....I must muster up the courage...!! Linda in Georgia"}, {"response": 109, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "Linda -- I fully understand your reluctance re new computer software, etc. But as many of us here have learned, we can and do conquer many of these technologies. Good luck, and hope to see you at Pemberley soon. :-)"}, {"response": 110, "author": "panache", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:49)", "body": "Terry, Amy, and Henry, Could you read the posts on thread #43 from 2/3/97 and 2/4/97 if you haven't yet? Please? We would like to add the \"copyright 1996, 1997\" phrase to the header at the top of the thread, next to where it says \"New P&P Scenes\" as an explicit copyright statement regarding all the creative writings/writers represented on this conference thread. (I'm a newbie, so haven't the know-how or power to add it myself!) Thanks from all of us on #43, Cecily (panache)"}, {"response": 111, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "Ok -- I've added it in in the only place where there seemed to be room for it -- namely, the slot where Cecily's name used to be! As I was telling Ann, nowadys copyright is pretty much automatic, and I think you don't necessarily surrender much legal rights by not including a copyright statement (but, on the other hand, it never hurts ...)"}, {"response": 112, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (11:52)", "body": "Great News! All of those addicts who have Prodigy service who have not been able to access the Pemberely Drawing Room help is on the way! I have been working to get Microsoft Internet Explorer installed on my computer to use as my personal web browser so that I might access the chat group....after 3 weeks of calling both Prodigy and Microsoft...I found a message on my E Mail this morning informing me that in one week the new Prodigy Internet service will be switching to Microsoft Internet Explorer as th ir primary web browser!!!! How or why it has happened I do not know...all I know is that for $19.95 it will be unlimited access and both the Prodigy Classic service and Prodigy Internet...which will be able to get into the Pemberley!!! Finally!!"}, {"response": 113, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (12:00)", "body": "All right Linda! Party time when you finally get in."}, {"response": 114, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (08:47)", "body": "Mon cher Henri, Merci beaucoup pour votre effort. \"Copyright 1996,1997\" est parfait! Cecily"}, {"response": 115, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "Amy and Henri: Sorry to be back so soon, but upon reading some of the latest scenes at my topic #43, I believe we are beginning to \"exceed the limit\" for PG13 at this conference (as well as exceed the length for a topic before it is moved to austenarchives conference). It is probable you already were planning to relocate #43 outside to another conference soon; if so, do so ASAP with my blessing (part to archives, part to --?). Appreciatively, Cecily"}, {"response": 116, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:39)", "body": "Thanks, Cecily. It is next on the list. Actually, I was trying work through whether or not Ann's new page could serve as the archive. Any thoughts on that?"}, {"response": 117, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:44)", "body": "Actually, I was trying work through whether or not Ann's new page could serve as the archive. Any thoughts on that? I like this idea. You could put the Writers' Guild in your header links. And we could start a fresh \"Scenes\" topic for posting of further stories and commentary."}, {"response": 118, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:53)", "body": "It's the commentary -- especially the praise, since every writer needs that! -- which I don't want to lose entirely. Any ideas on that, anybody?"}, {"response": 119, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "Amy and Myretta- I like this idea. You could put the Writers' Guild in your header links. And we could start a fresh \"Scenes\" topic for posting of further stories and commentary. Option 1: Scenes without commentary reviews put into Ann's page; original topic thread (scenes with commentary/reviewa) in AustenArchives; new additipons to topic #43 only if PG13; other New Scenes conference outside for slightly \"hotter\" scenes (tasteful R?). Option 2: Same as above, except all new scenes out in another New Scenes conference outside P&P2 (with a copyright and request for PG13-tasteful R content). Actually, I hate to use R as a term at all, in that it allows any writers who post to include scenes of violence, etc., if they be nonAustenites in content and style... Option 3: Tell writers to direct us to their own webpages of scenes! Option 4: Go watch P&P2 again and forget this prequel/sequel jazz. (I feel like a mother turtle who laid a million eggs in the sand of #43 and now they're all starting to hatch...) ;-)"}, {"response": 120, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (21:59)", "body": "I just want to add, that if something gets racier than my arbitrary taste would feel comfortable with, I will not post it to the guild. So far, nothing has crossed that line, so I can not say where that line is."}, {"response": 121, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (10:17)", "body": "Cecily, You have, indeed,hatched quite a few eggs here. I'm inclined to think that starting a separate conference for \"hotter\" scenes might encourage \"hotter\" scenes. I think we do quite well, here, keeping things acceptable to the G eneral P ublic. Your happy band of authors seems to have reached an agreeable temperature and is keeping it regulated. If the need arises, we could always direct the writers to drool and start a topic there. I also think that Amy has enough conferences on her h nds at the moment."}, {"response": 122, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (18:37)", "body": "As Darcy would say, You are perfectly right. It is entirely up to Amy, this being Amyland. Whatever she decides is law to me. I was merely and halfjestingly responding to her query above for others' input."}, {"response": 123, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "Oh oh."}, {"response": 124, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:12)", "body": "Happy Birthday, Carolyn!"}, {"response": 125, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (22:27)", "body": "I really meant for that to go in Happy Birthday. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 44, "subject": "Col. Fitzwilliam", "response_count": 34, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (15:47)", "body": "I think the man was truly interested in Lizzie. Darcy saw this, and realized he must do something about his feelings, so he proposed."}, {"response": 2, "author": "EricB", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (16:17)", "body": "The Colonel does function as you suggest, Cheryl, but also provides one other purpose at least. He comments that he has heard much of Miss Elizabeth Bennet and none of the praise has been exaggerated. If this is not a rather solid hint that Darcy thinks highly of E, then nothing is. This comes along with Charlotte's noting that Darcy looks at E a great deal, etc. Given these and other statements, it becomes increasingly difficult for E to maintain her view that Darcy dislikes her. It presages the com ng marriage proposal which, were it not for Col. Fitzwilliam, would come upon us (at least in the book) quite suddenly and with almost no warning."}, {"response": 3, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (16:27)", "body": "I think the Colonel also serves as an upperclass counterpart to Wickham, as strange as this may seem, since they both must be \"mercenary\" in their choice of a wife. Wickham tries with Mary King of course, and fails, but I don't think Fitzwilliam would ever make a play for Lizzie, since he knows he must marry well. amy 2"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Stefanie", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (16:58)", "body": "I believe that another purpose which Colonel Fitzwilliam serves is to provide evidence for Darcy's letter. I know that evidence isn't the best word to use, I suppose I mean he's a witness. I don't know. My point is that Colonel Fitzwilliam is a trustworthy person who knows all of the family secrets. This way, when Lizzy reads ht eletter, she doesn't just have to take Darcy at his word, she can get it verified."}, {"response": 5, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (17:00)", "body": "I have a question, why did Darcy share gaurdianship of Georgian with the Colonel. That seems odd to me?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (17:25)", "body": "It seems to me that Col.had much faith in Mr.Darcy opinions of Miss Elizabeth Bennet. He stated them loud and clear. Lizzie duh! doesn't get. \"Elizabeth he is truely the most honorable man we/you have ever met and who has praised you to his intimate friend and cousin. Col.{who is quite charming} was there to \"spill the beans\" and to prepared us for the marriage proposal. He was also needed to back-up Mr. Darcys claim about George Wickham's character and to share information about their joint guardiansh p of Georgiana."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Saman", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (17:43)", "body": "I agree that the Colonel manages to perform many roles - creating jealousy, making Lizzie laugh, providing a \"character witness\" for Darcy. I know we discussed this earlier, but it occured to me again that Duckface (alright, Miss Bingley) was looking rather interested in him at the wedding - aarrgh!! Did anyone else think that the silence (after Lizzie asked Col. Fitzwilliam why Darcy was staring at her in the Parsonage parlour) was a little too long - the Colonel seemed almost too composed, as if what she said had no effect on him. Saman"}, {"response": 8, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (18:43)", "body": "G'day All, And just what was Col. Fitzwilliam doing in those woods all the time anyway? Who else was he meeting? Or was he just there to ambush Lizzy?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "kathleen", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (20:22)", "body": "Ian -- Do you not think that the good Colonel could just have been hiding from his doting aunt? I know she concentrated her matchmaking efforts on Darcy, but I suspect that she was nosey and impertinent about Fitzwilliams' private life as well. Maybe she had some other friends (?) or relatives w/ unmarried daughters who had enough money for this younger son of an earl."}, {"response": 10, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (01:30)", "body": "es, Kathleen, you are right. I can hear Lady Catherine assuring Col. Fitz (after a long discourse on the lovely Miss Summerville with no title but such great connections and 30,000 pounds): \"Did I tell you that Sir Charles Bently called yesterday to thank me? He find the new Mrs. Bently a treasure. 'Lady Catherine', said he, 'you have given me a treasure.'\""}, {"response": 11, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (02:28)", "body": "I would so like to have been able to attach this comment to response #2... Anyway, Eric observed that the Colonel provides one other purpose at least. He comments that he has heard much of Miss Elizabeth Bennet and none of the praise has been exaggerated. If this is not a rather solid hint that Darcy thinks highly of E, then nothing is. This is true in the film, but does not occur in the book. Yet it is a good example of one way in which the film was actually able to elaborate upon and extend some of JA's characterizations in a way that is in no way bendig them out of the shape in which they were molded. And Mich, I agree that Darcy's sharing gaurdianship of Georgiana with the Colonel seems a bit contrived - the shared guardianship does serve a purpose (as mentioned above) but the way in which it has been woven into the fabric of the plot is not as seamless as are most of the other \"necessary coincidinces\". Joan, too"}, {"response": 12, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (03:24)", "body": "Kathleen, Yes He was hiding from Lady Catherine. But so was Darcy with his continued visits to Lizzie. Anyone as formidable as Lady Catherine would have them scurrying (Mr Collins like) as much as possible."}, {"response": 13, "author": "EricB", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (16:24)", "body": "Correct, Joan. It is not in the book. In the book that function is more frequently performed by Charlotte. Even so, the Col. does serve in the book to bring Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth into more benign conversations than they had hitherto known. As you say, the movie was actually able to elaborate upon and extend some of JA's characterizations in a way that is in no way bending them out of the shape in which they were molded."}, {"response": 14, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (13:23)", "body": "Call me wacky, but I still contend that a major purpose of the Fitzwilliam character in the book is for Austen to show us that \"men of small fortune\" -- even the younger son of an Earl -- had to marry for monetary considerations as much as a bounder like Wickham did."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (13:58)", "body": "No I agree with you. Younger sons had to marry well. Do you think Caroline Bingley will fulfill all his dreams? She has 30,000 pounds."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (14:32)", "body": "Is that right, Donna? As much as Georgiana? I have not checked it, but that sounds like too much. Didn't Bingley only have 100,000?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (15:56)", "body": "In the text, Caroline and her sister each had 20,000 pounds"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (16:01)", "body": "In response to #5 and #11. I would rationalize the joint custody of Georgiana this way. Darcy was only 2 or 3 and 20 when his father died. The colonel is several years older. Providing joint custody relieves a very young man of a little of the responsibility of a young girl at a most trying age. Linda"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (16:28)", "body": "I agree, Linda. I think Col. Fitzwilliam had joint custody because he was an older man of the world, and he was probably also co-executor of old Mr. Darcy's will. There's usually more than one executor. That's probably why he also knew about the 3,000 pounds paid Wickham in lieu of the living. I've always liked the Fitzwilliam character and I think he has many functions in the story - small ones, to be sure, but important nevertheless. He engages Lizzie in lively conversation, makes Darcy realize what he's missing by being so taciturn, makes the reader realize that marrying for money is not a bad thing if the person doing so is not bad, and serves as a character-witness for Darcy. When considered all together, his role is not unimportant."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (16:35)", "body": "In the text, Caroline and her sister each had 20,000 pounda __________ Still that's pretty good. Twenty times as much as the Bennet girls"}, {"response": 21, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (16:46)", "body": "Speaking of $$$, I have a speculative question: WHAT IF Jane & Lizzy had not made such good marriages, and Mr. Bingly had died? Really, what would have become of Mrs. Bennet and the 5 girls? Where could they have gone? Certainly not to the overcrowded Gardiners on Gracechurch Street. Would they all have been cast into genteel poverty?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (16:58)", "body": "Amy 2, Look at Sense and Sensibility. I think that gives you a pretty good idea of what would have happened to the Bennet women - living in a cottage in some remote part of the country, on 500 pounds a year or so."}, {"response": 23, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (17:10)", "body": "Me again -- work has driven my brain underground. I meant of course in my prior post: What if Mr. Bennett had died?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (17:11)", "body": "Speaking of $$$, I have a speculative question: WHAT IF Jane & Lizzy had not made such good marriages, and Mr. Bingly had died? Really, what would have become of Mrs. Bennet and the 5 girls? Where could they have gone? Certainly not to the overcrowded Gardiners on Gracechurch Street. Would they all have been cast into genteel poverty?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (17:19)", "body": "Where could they have gone? Certainly not to the overcrowded Gardiners on Gracechurch Street. Would they all have been cast into genteel poverty? _____________ \"If your uncle is not kind to us, I do not know what we shall do!\""}, {"response": 26, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (17:22)", "body": "Hit enter before I was ready to end. Meant to add: the old hag. She did expect her brother to support them. Of all the things Mrs B said, her assertion that their uncle should put up the money to bring about Lydia's marriage was the most cringe-provoking for me. I think in the movie it may have brought out the strongest rebuke from Lizzy."}, {"response": 27, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (23:31)", "body": "I agree whole heartily with all your observations, but thought Col Fitzwilliam's ease with people contracted to Mr. Darcy's lack thereof. I got the impression from the book that Col. Fitzwilliam was indeed interested in Lizzie but was very upfront with her in the unlikelyhood of there ever being any contection between the two. He did this in a \"gentleman like manner\". Mr. Darcy on the other hand in telling her that he was interested, and proclaiming that their connection should have been unlikely, insu ted her deeply."}, {"response": 28, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (20:51)", "body": "A slight defense of Mrs. Bennet in her expectation that her brother should help them financially if they needed help. At a time when women had no way to help themselves and were rasied to believe that men were supposed to take care of them, when the lion's share of the family property went to the oldest son, when the sons were educated and prepared for a profession while the daughters learned to be modest, accomplished and demure - I can easily see a woman - one who does not think deeply or clearly - could assume that her brother(or any other man who maight be imposed upon) would be there for her."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Kathy", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (18:36)", "body": "I always thought that one of the many important functions of Col. Fitzwilliam, besides those mentioned above, was to show the reader Lizzie's desirableness, even from members of higher society. Wickham clearly likes her, and now Col. Fitzwillaim clearly likes her, so her desirability is firmly established before Darcy's proposal. Now here's a question that has no doubt been canvassed before, but excuse me, I am a newcomer. What about two cousins named Colonel Fitwilliam and Fitzwilliam Darcy? Fitzwilliam as both a last name and first name in the same family? Kathy"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (19:08)", "body": "] to show the reader Lizzie's desirableness, even from members of higher society. Good point, Kathy. Did I tell you \"welcome\" yet? If not, welcome."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (19:09)", "body": "Hi Kathy, it was apparently not uncommon to give a son his mother's family name. Darcy's mother was the Colonel's father's sister, hence Fitzwilliam Darcy. A confusing habit IMO, I'm glad it is no longer the fashion."}, {"response": 32, "author": "annakarin", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (14:22)", "body": "I think a big difference between colonel fitzwilliam and Wickham considering marriage for money is that Wickham probably would have married any woman with money whether he liked her or not. Colonel fitzwilliam on the other hand hints I think that he can not marry a woman he likes if she does not have some money.But I do not think he means that he would marry any woman just for her money.I think he meant or mean to marry a woman he liked or cared for but she had to have some money otherwhise he could not c nsidering marrying her."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (14:38)", "body": "You finally got in, A-K. Good. What finally worked for you?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (16:07)", "body": "I think that Fitzwilliam would have been more discerning in his choice of mate than Wickham, but he sure makes it clear to Lizzy in the book that there's no way he can marry her due to purely pecuniary circumstances. . . austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 46, "subject": "Denny", "response_count": 10, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (18:28)", "body": "I think Denny was just there to keep Lydia occupied and to show how interested she was in all the officers. He also served as a counterpoint to Wickham - he probably realized that Lydia was very young and silly - was pleasant enough to dance with her and amuse her at parties, but would never think of anything more romantic with her - and would certainly never elope with her. He probably never knew that Wickham was going to leave the regiment or that Lydia was going to accompany him - after all, Wickham ad debts of honor and Denny probably didn't think he'd run out on those, and I'm sure neither Wickham nor Lydia would have told him of their plans."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (18:39)", "body": "I've figured out Denny's real purpose. Was it not he who brought the dastardly Wickham to Meryton, thus setting in motion all manner of events? So you could say that without Denny, it would have been a very short book indeed! Also, Denny and Wickham were friends previously to the ____shire's entry into Meryton. Any speculation on how or where they met? Is Denny a debaucher too? Hmmmm!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "kathleen", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (20:30)", "body": "Cheryl -- how are you? Sounds like you have been busy this week, what w/ collecting volunteer info and keeping up w/ the chat room. As to Denny's moral character, maybe it depends on whether he was a drill instructor. (No, wait, that's in 1996 -- and Lydia isn't an enlistee!) I don't think we're supposed to know much about any of the officers except Wickham. And Denny brought Wickham to the regiment after renewing a slight acquaintance w/ him in town. So, maybe they originally met while drinking and playing cards in the same pub. (Or do you think they shared the same women while Wickham was at Cambridge?)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (02:41)", "body": "He probably never knew that Wickham was going to leave the regiment or that Lydia was going to accompany him - Was it not Denny, though, who gave information to Col. Forester that Wickham never intended to marry Lydia? Is Denny a debaucher too? He certainly seems a lot more harmless than Wickham, but not much is actually told to us about his character. He is basically little more than a hunk of meat in a uniform for the amusement of Lydia and Kitty. It is interesting that Lydia, the egregious flirt, spends virtually all of her time in the company of Denny, while Kitty is seldom seen twice in the company of the same partner. Joan, too"}, {"response": 5, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (12:10)", "body": "Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Denny married? Wasn't Lydia sent to Brighton to be the \"particular\" friend of the Captain's wife (Mrs. Denny)?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (12:31)", "body": "\"particular\" friend of the Captain's wife (Mrs. Denny)? ______________ of Colorel Forster's wife."}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (11:12)", "body": "Thank you! I'm getting my Denny confused with my Forster!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "kathleen", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (18:23)", "body": "amy2 -- I am certain it was merely an oversight on your part. Especially since Mr. Denny is young (and handsome) whereas Col. Forster is a good bit older, and not quite so easy on the eyes. (His wife is a silly little thing, though, isn't she?)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (10:48)", "body": "Kathleen: I think it's just a function of fatigue. Just rewatched Part I last night, and there certainly IS a big difference between the two men!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (14:46)", "body": "I do think it's strange that Lydia and Denny aren't drawn to each other. In P&P2, Denny is my second choice right behind CF for basic physical attractiveness, certainly ahead of Wickham. He's also the sincere nice guy who brings Wickham's regrets to Lizzy at the Netherfield ball. I think he has too much sense for Lydia. When the three soldiers leave Longborne and Lydia comes chasing after them, Denny seems to be almost patronizing Lydia. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 5, "subject": "UNIX Team mail list and discussion", "response_count": 9, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 16:09:23 -0500 From: \"Myretta Robens\" Subject: Coordination Hello Unixteam, As Amy mentioned today, I've volunteered to coordinate our effort. I did this for two reasons: 1) I think that if we are all rooting around in the operating system at the same time, doing the same or conflicting things, we may come to regret the experience. 2) I'm probably better at coordinating than I am at UNIX. So, I propose that the best way to start is to inventory our experience, our level of expertise, our comfort level and our interests and then take it from there. I'll begin. Hi, I'm Myretta Robens. I have worked with UNIX on and off since 1985. I'm currently managing network infrastructure so my exposure to UNIX has diminished. I have worked with System V release 3.x and 4.0, BSD, AIX release 4.1, and SunOS 4.?. I have done Bourne shell programming, a little C shell and even less K shell. I have no PERL or CGI experience. I can get around the operating sytem with some facility and am a vi queen. Unfortunately, my heavy duty UNIX years were well before the Web became real ty. So, you see, my intentions probably outweigh my expertise. I would like to help and I think that, in some cases, the best way I can do this is to make sure we don't collide in trying to make this work. I welcome your thoughts and suggestions and look forwared to working with you. Myretta"}, {"response": 2, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:38)", "body": "Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 04:32:15 -0800 From: Joan Winsor Subject: Re: Coordination Hello Unixteam, Myretta said: ] 1) I think that if we are all rooting around in the operating system ] at the same time, doing the same or conflicting things, we may come to ] regret the experience. I agree - this is the voice of experience speaking - it is possible for those accidentally working at cross-purposes to make a huge mess that takes a lot of someone's time to clean up after! ] the best way to start is to inventory our experience, our level of ] expertise, our comfort level and our interests I'm Joan Winsor. I have worked with UNIX as little as possible. I only know what I have needed to know for some particular purpose, and there is considerable rust upon what I do know. At one time I was responsible for doing some specific \"janitorial\" duties on a UNIX host. At my initial training session, they started out by telling me, \"No matter what you do, never type in \"rm mix\" or you will delete the entire network.\" I knew right away that I was in a very dangerous place! One thing I am curious o know about is what level of privilege (potential for doing damage) our IDs have been given here. I have had more direct experience working with \"moderator\" or \"organizer\" or \"customize\" commands within specific conferencing software such as Caucus, CoSy, and FirstClass, and have run my school district's dial-in BBS with an Internet mail gateway for four years. I'm quite certain that my intentions as far as UNIX itself is concerned outweigh my expertise, but I *am* able to follow very specific directions and do specific tasks properly, and I did manage not to delete the entire network in my previous paid experience. Joan"}, {"response": 3, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:39)", "body": "From: Paul Terry Walhus Subject: Re: Coordination Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 07:20:40 -0600 (CST) Basics: Everything is in /usr/bbs/confs/austen Each topic is of the form _11 *this would be topic 11* You have to be extremely careful if you go in and edit a topic because you can easily muck it up. This is the voice of experience. There is a generic way to affect the look and feel of the whole spring and their are specific ways to affect just a particular topic. Do I need to set up other hostlevel folks in the austen confernce besides myself and Amy? My guess is that Matisses manual is out of date compared to Daves manual, has anyone actually managed to get it converted to readable form? Dave Tahler a d Kaylene Thaler support yapp. Dave wrote it. These nice folks reside in Ann Arbor Michigan. Teh yapp conference posts get emailed directly to Dave. There are \"other\" topics onthe spring which maybe of interested to this group and feel welcome to contribute inother areas *eg. books, tv, movies, cultures, etc. Terry"}, {"response": 4, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:39)", "body": "From: \"Amy Bellinger\" Subject: Re: Coordination Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 18:11:03 -0500 To: Unix team From: Amy ______________________ Responding to our coordinator's first missive: Myretta said: ] 2) I'm probably better at coordinating than I am at UNIX. I think we are lucky to have somebody with experience in managing technology -- and you do seem to remember your UNIX pretty well, Myretta. Thanks for volunteering. ] So, I propose that the best way to start is to inventory our experience, ] our level of expertise, our comfort level and our interests and then take ] it from there. Me, I am Amy Bellinger. Here is my resume: http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/resume.html I'm a writer, editor, survey researcher, former PR flack who has used computers as a tool. First exposure in an office setting was in a PR agency in LA that had a clunky Fortune Systems network, 1985. Have written and done newsletter layout on a Mac, owned Apples and PCs. I know just enough Perl and CGI to fake out a script to process survey forms entered from the web -- and to half understand how to modify canned CGI/Perl scripts. I do adore the web and confess I like the \"making it pretty\" part more than the mucking about in the back stairways, but there can be some satisfaction for me in that part as well."}, {"response": 5, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:42)", "body": "From: \"Amy Bellinger\" Subject: Fw: root Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 10:35:59 -0500 Terry, I think some of your comments may have been intended for the UNIX group rather than the austen.com planning group. I am forwarding the message. Amy ---------- ] From: Terry Walhus ] To: Terry Walhus ] Subject: root ] Date: Wednesday, December 11, 1996 8:50 AM ] ] There are some things that affect austen that must be done ] on a general level to the whole system. These are affected ] by a general set of parameters by loggin in as sysop on the ] website. ] ] Also, others can be added to host level status in austen and ] in other conferences if they want to. ] ] I'm just trying to figure out what I can be doing that I'm ] not doing now to help you all out. ] ] I'm not sure of the status of the www.austen.com address. ] Email webmaster@bastrop.net for a status report. This is ] supposed to have been set up, but you'll have to email ] webmaster@bastrop.net to get an ftp account set up on this ] system. Can someone try and ftp something there today to ] see if it is functioning and then connect to the website. ] ] I will be checking in evenings and early am sometimes. ] My time during the day is very limited now. but I'm hoping ] that the Spring can continue to grow with your guidance and ] support. ] ] Hope you're having a good day. ] ] ] Terry ]"}, {"response": 6, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:42)", "body": "From: \"Amy Bellinger\" Subject: Background gif Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:59:51 -0500 Myretta, I found the message in the Yapp conference about backgrounds. Below and at http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/read/yapp/17#Resp0 What did we ever determine about the online manual Kaff found -- that it was current, or not? ___ Topic 17 of 38: Conference wallpaper Thu, Sep 12, 1996 (13:33) | Dave Thaler (thalerd@eecs.umich.edu) Paul Walhus asked: ] Is it possible ] to create custom individual wallpaper for particular conferences or ] is the background wallpaper required to be the same for all conferences? Yes it is possible. One way to do this would be to: 1) In the \"Standard page header\" section of the System Customization page, make the wallpaper part of the body tag be a new macro (pick any name) like %{wallpaper}. 2) Define the default wallpaper in a global rc file (e.g., /usr/bbs/rc) For example, define wallpaper 'default_wallpaper.gif' Only cfadm can do this from Unix. 3) For each conference in which you want to have non-default wallpaper, redefine the wallpaper macro in the conference rc file. Either cfadm or the conference host/fairwitness can do this from inside yapp with \"change rc\"."}, {"response": 7, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "From: \"Amy Bellinger\" Subject: Permissions and coordination Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 21:10:40 -0500 Okay, Joan, let's bring this back into general discussion. ] ] Amy: ] ] Asked Terry for Myretta, ] ] Zimei, Kaff and me, with co-host status for the rest of ] ] the members of the UNIX team, that Myretta's access is the ] ] priority, since she would like to add a test conference as ] ] soon as possible. ] Joan ] I feel that I have to say that IMHO this is too many people - snip Amy: I know I should not be trusted. On the other hand I can't stand not being able to set my own permissions, and according to Myretta, root access is needed to do this on this server. I don't want to have to ask Myretta to let me be able to write to a particular topic file if I want to get in and edit it. And I don't think she wants to be bothered with that sort of request either. Me, I trust Myretta as an experienced tech manager to tell us the rules. Like: don't ever touch this; don't go here this week while I am doing something else there; you _have_ to copy these kinds of files before futzing with them; &c."}, {"response": 8, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 08:43:46 -0500 From: \"Myretta Robens\" Subject: Catch Up These are just some responses to the email that has been flying around last week. 1. I'm happy to manage the system aspects of our conference and, where I can, give Terry a hand with Spring. 2. It should be possible to allow non-root people write access to all the appropriate conference files and still restrict the directory itself. (If you own a file, you can change permissions, but you can't change ownership). 3. Even without root permissions, there should be some coordination of work being done on the conference. We still run the risk of running into each other. 4. I'm sure it won't be necessary for anyone to give more time or effort than they can afford or want to give. If it comes right down to it, we can maintain the status quo quite easily. We'll do what we can when we can. 5. The online manual Kaff found is not as comrehensive as the Admin Guide we downloaded. But it's not as cryptic either. I think they can be used together to make sense of Yapp. 6. I think that a good place for us to start trying our wings is with the look and feel of the interface. It would make me happier if we could emulate at least the look of Amy's Bluemarble site. However, we really will need root access to do this. Also, I would rather play around with a test conference as we learn our way around the system. 7. I haven't heard from Terry about system priveleges. Has anyone? 8. When all this gets organize let's set up the test conference and start trying to customize it. What do you think: Well, I guess that's it for now. I alternate between disbelief that I'm taking on another Unix system and excitement about getting started. I think this will be a lot of fun. Looking forward to your responses (and I know you'll have some). Myretta"}, {"response": 9, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:46)", "body": "From: \"Amy Bellinger\" Subject: New Yapp features Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 00:50:39 -0500 Yeah, team. I bet you all saw Terry's repost of Dave Thaler's post in the Yapp conference, but here it is again just in case. Am I nuts or is the response to response feature one of the things we most miss being able to do? If you agree, please join me in lobbying for it to come out in the new release. Post in topic 39 in the Yapp conference. Thanks. Alternatively, tell me I'm nuts. Amy __________ http://208.199.212.10/yapp-bin/restricted/read/yapp/39/all ]From Yapp conference at Spring Topic 39 of 39: Status of new release Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (22:49) | Dave Thaler (thaler@armidale.ann-arbor.mi.us) Here's an update on latest Yapp developments... The following bugs are fixed: - minor security hole in \"source\" command - duplicate responses are now prevented - cfcreate and cfcreate shell scripts now work right on System V platforms - commands embedded inside seps now work again - After posting from the web, all responses are displayed starting from the last one seen (requested here by Anna) The following features are added: - added macros so that the \"browse all\" web page shows a \"NEW\" icon next to new items (suggested here by Joan) - you can now change your name in each conference. Also, if you set it to \"none\", it will always be the same as your global fullname. - added support for ulist includes (requested by Trinity College) to help manage private conference user lists - Added support for \".cfjoin\" files (global default and/or per user) to be executed the first time you join a new conference (requested by Drizzle) - \"fixto\" command (currently from Unix only) allows marking all responses as read up to a specified date, unlike the current \"fixseen\" which marks entire items (requested by Drizzle) - You can now mark everything as read from the web (requested here by Joan) Things not done yet: - Allowing responses to responses from the web (requested here by Amy) - Updating the help files and/or admin guide to document the new features If there's anything you've suggested that you don't see listed above, please mention it again in case I missed it. I'm thinking about doing a release within the next couple of days with just the things already done, plus hopefully the documentation. Any more features/changes would delay the release. Questions/comments? austentest conference | Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 51, "subject": "Does this work?", "response_count": 12, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (03:36)", "body": "G'day, Joan I'm a fool! ( he he ) I tested out the CREATE TOPIC button at the top of the page and it worked!!! Don't worry about any ERROR messages. Just go back into the AUSTEN CONFERENCE, hit NEW in the string and voila! hey presto! the new Topic appears at the bottom. Perhaps I should not have started this?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (03:43)", "body": "NO fool, you - but you have mistaken the object of my question. However, this serves to bring up a new one? Are we able to remove topics such as this if they prove to be - shall I say - less than useful? ;-)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (03:46)", "body": "G'day, Yes Joan I like that topic as it shows just how much a fool I am. Open Mouth...Insert Foot..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (05:48)", "body": "] Are we able to remove topics such as this if they prove to be - shall I say - less than useful? ;-) We will be able to, Joan, I just haven't gotten the user name and password yet for the shell account that will permit me to do the host duties. I will find out as soon as I can how many of us Terry will allow to have co-host keys."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (10:46)", "body": "As many as you want. Send me a list of names. Email me."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (22:56)", "body": "I wondered: I will find out as soon as I can how many of us Terry will allow to have co-host keys. And Terry said: As many as you want. Send me a list of names. ____________________________ So who wants the virtual delete key? Anna you offered to do the night shift in Australia? Bernie, Eric or Ann2 could do Europe if we get any bigger. Probably the most needed are some regulars here in the US who can prune when needed, and a couple of subs for me. Amy"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (00:11)", "body": "]So who wants the virtual delete key? Anna you offered to do the night shift in Australia I'm still happy to do that. Like most people I'm away from time to time, but that shouldn't present a major problem so far as I can see. I would need fairly detailed instructions, as to how and what to delete. Anna"}, {"response": 8, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (00:32)", "body": "Amy and Anna: Since I started this absolutely inane thread perhaps I should offer my services as penance. ;-)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (00:52)", "body": "That will work."}, {"response": 10, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (00:39)", "body": "Earlier today I left a post here saying that I would be willing to help on the west coast - but I do not see it now - so I'm leaving it again..."}, {"response": 11, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (08:20)", "body": "I'm available and happy to help on the east coast. Myretta"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Bernie", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (14:12)", "body": "Amy, I'm willing to help with the European contingent. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 52, "subject": "Six Degrees of Colin Firth", "response_count": 32, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "kathleen", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (13:53)", "body": "Does an upcoming movie count in this game? Because Jessica Lange is/will be in 1000 Acres w/ Colin Firth. If so, then in two steps, Tommie Lee Jones was in \"Blue Sky\" w/ Jessical Lange Jessica Lange is in \"1000 Acres\" w/ Colin Firth"}, {"response": 2, "author": "kathleen", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (14:17)", "body": "Wait a minute -- am I supposed to start another game? How about connect Colin Firth to Katherine Hepburn. I believe it can be done in 4 steps at the most."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (14:20)", "body": "Good job, Kathleen! And yes, I should have specified that if you solve one, you should add a new one!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (15:09)", "body": "Six Degrees: Tommy Lee Jones in \"Coal Miners daughter\" w/ Sissy Spacek Sissy Spacek in \"Crimes of the Heart\" w/Sam Shepard Sam Shepard in \"Pelican Brief\" w/ Julia Roberts Julia Roberts in \"Step Mom\" w/ Susan Sarandan Susan Sarandan in \"Withes of Eastwick\" w/ Michell Pfieffer Michelle Pfeiffer in 1,000 Acres w/ COLIN FIRTH"}, {"response": 5, "author": "haker", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (20:42)", "body": "But can you get from Kevin Bacon to Firth?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Catie", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (18:58)", "body": "Colin Firth was in Circle of Friends with Minnie Driver who was in Sleepers with Kevin Bacon. How many degrees of separation is Colin Firth from Cher?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (20:34)", "body": "There are only two degrees of separation between Colin Firth and Cher: Colin Firth was in \"Camille\" with Greta Scacchi, and Greta Scacchi was in \"The Player\" with Cher. I'll have to think to come up with a new one - have to go search the IMDB."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (20:38)", "body": "There are only two degrees of separation between Colin Firth and Cher: Colin Firth was in \"Camille\" with Greta Scacchi, and Greta Scacchi was in \"The Player\" with Cher. I'll have to think to come up with a new one - have to go search the IMDB."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (20:39)", "body": "OK - how many degrees of separation are there between Colin Firth and Robert Redford?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Linda", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (20:58)", "body": "Another two-stepper for Colin/Tommy Lee: Tommy Lee was in Batman with Chris O'Donnell; Chris was in Circle of Friends with Colin. Linda Lee"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Linda", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (21:24)", "body": "I can think of two 2-steppers from CF to Robert Redford: Redford was in Sneakers wtih Ben Kingsley; Kinglsey was in Bugsy with Annette Bening; Bening was in Valmont with Firth. Also, Redford was in Sneakers with David Strathairn; Strathairn was in Memphis Belle with Billy Zane; Zane was in Femme Fetale with Firth. How about Firth to Janeanne Garofalo? I can think of a 5 step but there must be a shorter one."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (21:25)", "body": "Inko there is one Robert Redford w/Michelle Pfieffer \"Up Close and Personnal\""}, {"response": 13, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (21:28)", "body": "Michelle Pfeieffer w/ Colin Firth \"1,000 Acres There is only one person between them"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (21:33)", "body": "Sorry, 2 degrees"}, {"response": 15, "author": "maud", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (21:46)", "body": "Kevin Bacon to CF: Bacon was in \"a few good men\" w/ Tom Cruise; Cruise was is \"Far and away\" w/ N. Kidman; Kidman was in \"dead calm\" w/ billy Zane; Zane was in \"femme fatale\" w/ CF. ?? 2 degrees--Robt. Redfford was in \"Sneakers\" w/ ben Kingsley: Kingsley was in \"camille\" w/ CF."}, {"response": 16, "author": "maud", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (14:19)", "body": "Sorry---forgot to ask one. What about CF and Lassie?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (17:29)", "body": "Does this count, Maud? CF and Lassie were in the same movie \"Wings of Fame\", but I don't know which Lassie that was - there have been so many different ones."}, {"response": 18, "author": "maud", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (18:08)", "body": "Your're correct--but see if you can answer with both characters (Lassie) and CF) being \"living\" characters--then you need to ply the degrees game."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (20:05)", "body": "I haven't worked out the Lassie-CF connection yet, but have a new one which, I worked out in six steps - the six degrees of separation between Colin Firth and Bing Crosby. (It's possible there may be less steps - I didn't work through all the possibilities.)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "maud", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (11:42)", "body": "re: response #11- Garofalo to CF in 4 Garofalo to uma T uma T to Glenn Close Glenn C to Meg T Meg T to CF still working on the others"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (20:41)", "body": "Maud, this is the connection between CF and Lassie: Lassie - Elizabeth Taylor \"Lassie Come Home\" Elizabeth Taylor - Katherine Hepburn \"Suddenly Last Summer\" Katherine Hepburn - Peter O'Toole \"Lion in Winter\" Peter O'Toole - Colin Firth \"Wings of Fame\" so I guess there are four steps to Lassie and only two steps to Katherine Hepburn, a question asked earlier. I'll go with the same question I asked yesterday - Colin Firth to Bing Crosby."}, {"response": 22, "author": "catie", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:43)", "body": "Bing Crosby was in High Society with Grace Kelly who was in To Catch a Thief with Cary Grant who was in Charade with Walter Matthau who was in JFK with Kevin Bacon who was in Sleepers with Minnie Driver who was in Circle of Friends with Colin Firth. This not only connecst Bing Crosby to Colin Firth but also to Kevin Bacon. This is what is called a double whammy!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (21:28)", "body": "Catie - that's interesting. When I worked out I found all British actors, so there must be lots of ways to make these connections. I found Bing Crosby with Ingrid Bergman (Bells of St. Mary's), Ingrid Bergman with Leslie Howard (Intermezzo), Leslie Howard with David Niven (First of the Few), David Niven with Richard Attenborough (Stairway to Heaven), Richard Attenborough with Donald Pleasance (The Great Escape) and Donald Pleasance with Colin First (The Advocate)."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (22:46)", "body": "Here's another Lassie to CF (In four): Roddy McDowell(Lassie) with Sissy Spacek-\"Grass Harp\" Sissy Spacek with Tommy Lee Jones-\"Coal Miner's Daughter\" Tommy Lee Jones with Chris O'Donnell-\"Batman\" Chris O'Donnell with CF-\"Circle of Friends\""}, {"response": 25, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (02:34)", "body": "Faster way to Garofalo: JG-Uma \"Cats and Dogs\" Uma-Jurgen Prochnow \"Robin Hood (Patric Bergin version)\" Prochnow-CF \"English Patient\""}, {"response": 26, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (09:48)", "body": "Only one person stands between CF and Madonna (in other words a person was in a movie with CF & a different movie with Madonna). Who is it and what are the two movies. Then from Madonna it is only a short hop to Jeremy Northam. Also link CF to Monty Python in four steps or less."}, {"response": 27, "author": "maud", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (19:09)", "body": "Here's CF to Madonna: Cf was in Hostages w/ cathy bates cathy bates was in Dick Tracy w/ Madonna I'm still working on the other 2 questions. sometimes it helps to work on something else if you're stuck on the current question. What about CF to Mae West?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "maud", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (19:42)", "body": "Here's the rest of Ann's question (resp.26) from CF fo Madonna(see above) then to Jeremy Northam: Madonna was in Evita w/ Jonathan Pryce J. Pryce was in Carrington w/ JN CF to Monty Python in 4 CF was in P&P2 w/ Alison Steadman A. Steadman was in Baron Von Munchhausen w/ Eric Idle Eric Idle was in various Mony Python movies--e.g. the meaning of life"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (23:23)", "body": "Your CF to Monty Python was different from mine: CF with Patrick Malahide (Month in the Country) PM with brother Jonathan Firth (Middlemarch) JF with Michael Palin (American Friends) MP to Monty Python."}, {"response": 30, "author": "catie", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (20:59)", "body": "CF to Mae West: Mae West was in \"She Done Him Wrong\" with Cary Grant who was in \"The Philadelphia Story\" with Katherine Hepburn who was in \"Love Affair\" with Annette Bening who was in \"Valmont\" with Colin Firth How about Gerard Depardieu to CF?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "maud", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (21:19)", "body": "CF to Gerard Depardieu: Gerard D was in Green Card w/ andie Macdowell Andie mac was in 4 weddings and a funeral w/ Kristin scott thomas Kristin S T was in the english patient w/ CF How about Elvis?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "catie", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (20:36)", "body": "Elvis was in Change of habit with Mary Tyler Moore who was in Ordinary People with Timothy Hutton who was in Everybody's all American with Jessica Lange who will be 1000 acres with Colin Firth. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 6, "subject": "HELP!", "response_count": 306, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (11:44)", "body": "Those who had trouble with your password authentication, please describe how you finally got it to work so we can advise others."}, {"response": 2, "author": "KatherineC", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (12:54)", "body": "Amy, I'm not sure what exactly I did. When the PW failed I backed out and chose a new user name and then chose the same PW and it worked !?! Katherine"}, {"response": 3, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (15:17)", "body": "Amy, I went into to TV instead of scrolling down to find austin. Actually Cheryl was nice enough to expalin it to while we were on the chat line. Happy to be back talking P&P Mich"}, {"response": 4, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (15:21)", "body": "The same thing happened to me, it kept booting me out then finally strangely it worked. I am so glad we can use this. Laura"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (15:25)", "body": "Amy or Terry, will hitting the \"new\" button under ranges display for me the new messages for today or the new ones since I was here last? If the latter: cool!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (15:45)", "body": "Amy, I just loged in via your former board and the address you put up. It must have been a problem with the system because it works fine now."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Stefanie", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (16:51)", "body": "For somw reason, when I use Amy's link I can not enter this site. I think the reason is that Amy lists the address as http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/all When I come, I type in http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/read/austen/all That seems to work for me. Hope that helps."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Stefanie", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (16:52)", "body": "For some reason, when I use Amy's link I can not enter this site. I think the reason is that Amy lists the address as http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/all When I come, I type in http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/read/austen/all That seems to work for me. Hope that helps."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Stefanie", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (16:53)", "body": "Sorry that went through twice, I didn't mean to hit the button again. By the way it's really cool how this program automatically turned those adresses into links!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "kathleen", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (20:18)", "body": "No problems here (Fri evening, EST) w/ the link or the password. Also, my response box automatically wraps my text. I have Netscape 3.0 as my browser, if that matters."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (21:08)", "body": "Two protocol questions:- When I finish a session, should I be logging off somewhere? I haven't seen a log-off screen, so I've just been closing my browser - I hope I'm not leaving any loose chains lying around... If I log-on using different computers (one at home, the other at work - different ISPs), will the 'new' button work, ie, is the info at to which messages I've already read stored on my pc or by spring? Thanks for any help, Anna"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (21:40)", "body": "Anna, I don't know a lot of answers yet. I don't log off. As for different computers, I think and new messages, I am pretty sure it is your user name that determines what messages you see, not your browser's memory of where you have been. So, yes, you can log on with the same user name on a different computer and your history should remain intact."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Nov 22, 1996 (23:29)", "body": "Thanks Amy - if things work out other wise I'll let you know. Anna"}, {"response": 14, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (01:09)", "body": "Over in topic 2 where people have been posting introductions there seem to be some problems with repeated postings. I had a particularly confusing experience in that topic, where I first entered my text and pushed the submit button (only once) and only one posting resulted, BUT it only had the first line of my text in it. Thinking that maybe I had to come in again in order to see my own post properly, I left the topic and then returned. Still only one line. So I began anew. This time the entire text ppeared after submission, so I left the topic having posted one one-line message and one complete one. When I returned the next day, however, I found first my complete posting, followed by TWO completely empty postings - and the one-liner was nowhere to be seen. How this came to pass I know not! But it does call to mind a useful question. Do we have the ability to remove postings that we may inadvertently have messed up here?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (02:05)", "body": "Take a look at the first several postings (not mine!) in topic 5. It appears that in almost every case if a paragraph gets to be longer than 6 lines, the 5th or 6th line is broken in the middle - occasionally even in the middle of a word. Why does this happen? Or more usefully, how is it to be prevented?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Anneother", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (03:25)", "body": "My problem is that I've had to get out of the habit of using the 'back' button, because every time I do my screen goes blank except for a \"DATA MISSING\" message, and then I have to reload. The first time I logged in it kicked me out, and when I went back it told me that the name I had chosed was already in use. I then started again, and it simply accepted both my name and the password, even though I thought it hadn't actually received them. I only hope that it doesn't put two identical messages down ev ry time I post!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (10:42)", "body": "We have a delete command but you have to have telnet access to use it right now. The *best* place to ask technical questions about the software's functioning is in the yapp conference which is emailed to the folks that created the software. How many folks here use telnet or want telnet accounts so they can have more options?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (12:50)", "body": "And regarding the questions about the 'new' button. It is based on your username and remembers what you've read. This is so you don't have to keep re-reading the same stuff."}, {"response": 19, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (15:19)", "body": "Yes, apparently you should make a start on a new line (i.e. make line break or paragraph break) every so often in the posting text entry box, or it will break the paragraph after a certain number of characters...."}, {"response": 20, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (15:48)", "body": "] Terry: ] How many folks here use telnet or want telnet accounts so they can have more options?\" This assumes an account here to Telnet into, does it not? One can not just Telnet into a specific conference? I do use telnet, but for use here in this conference, I would be unlikely to do so except to remove (or repair?) a messed-up posting. ] HC: ] Yes, apparently you should make a start on a new line (i.e. make line break or paragraph break) every so often in the posting text entry box, or it will break the paragraph after a certain number of characters.... Ugh! I hate having stuff like that \"dictated\" or imposed upon me - prefer to have control over my own text! (BTW, it also bugs me that html will not permit the \"2 spaces after a period\" convention. It really does make reading, especially on a screen, a lot easier on the eyes.) Another strange thing just happened. This is my second attempt to submit this - the first time, I made a tag error, and was quite gratified to find that instead of posting it messed up, it gave me an error message and what looked like a chance to repair the mistake before posting - so I did, and submitted again, but it did not post. Joan, too"}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (18:32)", "body": "Joan, that would be something to mention in the yapp conference, as well the comments on the text breaking. The forced text breaks can be changed to allow no text breaking."}, {"response": 22, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (19:58)", "body": "The forced text breaks can be changed to allow no text breaking. By the author of the post? How is this accomplished?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (20:01)", "body": "Oh, is there a way to get into a topic that is not shown in one's list of topics because there was nothing new in it without having to go back into \"all\" mode? For example, if there had not been a new post in here, this topic would not have"}, {"response": 24, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (21:06)", "body": "A couple of other thoughts - hitting \"Next Topic\" when there is no next topic is confusing, because nothing at all happens and one is not sure whether something is broken - would be good if it could display a message saying \"already at last topic\" or somesuch when one is already at the last topic. Can I change my userID? Now that I see how the \"full name\" and user ID are dispslayed here, I'd like to use my \"pseudonym\" instead - if punctuation is allowed in a User ID. Joan, too"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (23:06)", "body": "Joan suggested: ] A couple of other thoughts - hitting \"Next Topic\" when there is no next topic is confusing, because nothing at all happens and one is not sure whether something is broken - would be good if it could display a message saying \"already at last topic\" or somesuch when one is already at the last topic. _______________________ Either that or have it cycle back round to the first topic to catch new messages that might have been posted while one has been reading. Amy"}, {"response": 26, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (02:00)", "body": "A good thought! - but eventually such a cycle will still end up at a point where there will be nothing new to display, and THEN that message indicating that this is the end would still be helpful."}, {"response": 27, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (02:02)", "body": "Earlier this evening, I went out to the main menu and tried changing my \"full name\" - and it appeared to \"take\" in that screen, and even in yapp, but here, the change is being ignored. Very puzzling!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (05:04)", "body": "] The *best* place to ask technical questions about the software's functioning is in the yapp conference which is emailed to the folks that created the software. ________________ Terry, we kind of need a place to kvetch among ourselves and help each other also. Therefore this topic. Would you continue to point out when especially think a point should be reported to the Yapp conference? It will give Ian some guidance. He has volunteered to be our emissary to the Yapp conference, summarizing the stuff here so we don't flood the developer's conference with our tiresomewhiney remarks about why we prefer branching and all that sort of thing. By the way, I am missing branching too. Like Joan said here earlier, the chief drawback to this format is not having an easy way to respond to a specific post -- especially a specific post that is not necessarily the one immediately previous. And even when responding to the one immediately previous, there is a problem when you have the new function turned on. Example: I guess the way to see what you are responding to is to use the \"Redisplay starting from response number | | \" function. But then you have to guess how far back to look. The solution is to quote, maybe. You mentioned how \"well\" the format worked at the Well. Quite true, that place cooked. Did they have auto quoting there? How did --- or do --- they manage to know to what something refers? I hope you do not take our critiquing as critisism. We are seeking the best format for us. God knows, as your guests we do not want to offend. But we do know what we like and I hope our comments may prove helpful to the developer rather than offensive. Amy"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (07:24)", "body": "Your comments are very useful and whatever suggestions do filter over to the yapp conference by way of an emmissary will be taken seriously. You call also replace the zero in the redisplay from box with a number range, for example 6-20 which will show you on these responses. Right now, your response is 28 so I could specify the range 26-28 to see the previous threee responses. This will draw up on the screen much faster than going all the way back to the first response."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (21:12)", "body": "Amy, on your board I could slowly teach myself html, because in the quoted material I could see how they did it. Is there any way to see how the tricks are done on the spring board? I'm still limited to italics and bold, whilst others are playing with the butterflies. I'd like to play to, hopefully A"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (21:23)", "body": "Anna, we will put some stuff in the FAQ. For now let's say you want to do the Groucho image. I don't know all the HTML tags either, like the ones that let you show code, especially within Perl, so imagine my square brackets [ ] are really the same pointy brackets you use in your tags for bold and italic. I don't even know how this will show up here. If if doesn't I will do a graphic for you later. type: [IMG SRC=\" http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/data/groucho.gif\" ] to get:"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (21:47)", "body": "Bewdy - thanks Amy"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (04:16)", "body": "Amy, can I have your opinion on a point of etiquette? As you may have seen I subcultured the P&P1 topic into a new one, in part because I wanted to modify the original question and in part to get people's attention. Should I now freeze the original P&P1 topic (I think I can do that as I started it, although I haven't yet tried) to prevent topic overgrowth, or should I leave it to die a natural death ?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (08:41)", "body": "Anna, re creation and freezing I don't know everything yet about how to make the system work best for us, but in general I say yes, please do create a new topic when a thread goes off track. In this case, when you wanted to update and draw attention to a timely topic, I'd think it would be a good idea to freeze the old one which talks abotu old news. It remains preserved, should you ever become PM of Australia and writers want to write your bio. If the old topic is timeless and can provide entertainment for anyone, maybe not freeze it. Like I said, I don't know much more than you do at this point, but your instinct feels right to me."}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (09:50)", "body": "And you can always 'thaw' it out later."}, {"response": 36, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (20:02)", "body": "This %$#@%$@ software makes it VERY easy to lose a half-composed message, because it seems to be issuing some kind of special \"no-cache\" directives to the browsers. Whenever you get that \"Bad HTML, missing quote in tag\" box, one's first instinct is always to press the back-button and re-edit and re-submit the original message -- but if one does this, the preceding page is re-loaded directly from Spring, and the form entries are lost!!! So basically, one has to start over from scratch. Even if one suppresses this natural instinctive reaction, there can still be problems. Over in the \"enigmatic messages\" thread, I was working on a message when I decided to resize my browser window -- and as a result, the page was re-loaded from Spring, and my half-completed message was lost! Furthermore, this \"no-cache thing makes the board slower to use. I have to say that it's actually better to use this site with Lynx than Netscape, since Lynx keeps a cache -- I can reload only when I choose to reload. Furthermore, my message contained a long [IMG] tag, and when this was spread over several lines, the software generated [BR] tags _inseide_ the image tag!! -- [IMG SRC=\"URL\" ALT=\"This [BR]is an explanatory [BR]message\"] (Square brackets for angle brackets here.) These two problems account for my first two attempts to post the http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~churchyh/passione.gif image to the \"enigmatic messages\" thread turning out to be complete botches -- could you delete those two?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (20:44)", "body": "HC, I have had problems with exactly the same thing, but could not describe it half so specifically as you have done. HELP!!! Why does that buffer have to clear so soon. This is why I have decided never to type more than a couple of lines directly into this unfriendly text window. I now type into a text editor, and paste it in here, so that if it gets mangled, I don't have to start all over again. but this is hardly ideal!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (20:50)", "body": "Hey, Ian, when are you gonna start collecting and summarizing these for the Yapp conference? Where have you been anyway, buddy? Anybody want to volunteer til Ian gets caught up on his online bill? Ian you gotta get an unlimited account, loyal though you are to Hunter, or make them offer it for you. Entrance to this addiction should carry a warning label: Pay for you time? Don't even start. I see addresses from commercial services and I almost cry. Though now, I understand AOL has an unlimited time deal. Anyway. I know, H.The same thing has happened to me. I will delete the flubs as soon as my file permissions are set to edit the topic files as well as the headers. You want a new honorary virtual delete key? The cache thing, Terry? What is the reason? Do any benefits outweigh the negatives? RE the wrap thing: H said, Furthermore, my message contained a long [IMG] tag, and when this was spread over several lines, the software generated [BR] tags _inseide_ the image tag!! (And he musta been pretty steamed, too, because I have never seen him use more than one exclamation point unless he was parodying someone or something.) This might be due to specifying \"wrap=virtual\" in the textarea tag instead of \"wrap=soft.\" Soft does not put in line breaks. But I could be just babbling."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (10:07)", "body": "3 things: 1. Anybody else notice that at the main menu: http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/main there are nearly always fewer new messages indicated that there actually are? 2. Anyone else having trouble with their forget and remember buttons? I could swear \"forget\" gets inadvertently turned on in certain topics. And when I hit \"remember,\" it does not seem to stick. 3. Terry I know you like Dave to see our comments, but I really do like having a place to sound off on our own, because doesn't the Yapp conference go to all Dave's clients? Dave can come over here -- and I see he has already done so -- if if wants to hear the full dose. Meanwhile -- Ian -- you gonna do that summary to Yapp job or not? (You know your mommy loves you and does not wish to scold -- but, are you going to do it?) Amy"}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (13:25)", "body": "I think you're bringing some much needed energy to the yapp conference. How can Dave make yapp better without some real feedback? And having the \"full dose\" here is great! Dave is *very good* at incorporating requests into new versions of his software. Be careful, you'll almost surely get what you ask for. And you get more than three wishes."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (14:16)", "body": "Just tried to use the bold and italic HTML tags for the same sentence and got an error message about overlapping HTML commands. Does this software not allow one to do both simultaneously? Sometimes the only way I can express myself is to be both bold and italicized !"}, {"response": 42, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (14:20)", "body": "It worked that time Cheryl."}, {"response": 43, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (16:43)", "body": "Cheryl, it probably was complaining about stuff like [B][I]wow![/B][/I]. That 's BAD HTML, because \"[B][I]\" means that \"[I]...[/I]\" is going to be included inside \"[B]...[/B]\", but you closed off \"B\" before you closed off \"I\". You need to \"pop off\" nested elements in the opposite order that you \"pushed them on\", to use the computer science \"stack\" metaphor.."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (23:20)", "body": "Ok, HC. let's give it a try."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (23:22)", "body": "Very cool! Thanks, H.C.!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (09:40)", "body": "I am just trying to be bold now as I have not Htmlled for several weeks now !"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (09:50)", "body": "Ann2, we are so glad to see you again."}, {"response": 48, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (10:38)", "body": "Moved from topic 52 Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (09:52) | Ann (Ann) Am I the only one who can't read topic #32? Every time I try to load it Netscape completely crashes. 2 new of 2 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 52 of 52 [austen]: Topic 32 crashes my system! Response 1 of 2: Amy Bellinger (Amy) * Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (10:25) * 5 lines Ann, I am moving this to the HELP! topic, freezing this topic for a day or so, then it will be gone. Did your trouble happen after you tried to link to FOF then come back? If so it may be part of the no-cache thing. Amy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 52 of 52 [austen]: Topic 32 crashes my system! Response 2 of 2: Amy Bellinger (Amy) * Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (10:26) * 1 lines Guess I won't freeze it, got a server error. Now I might as well repost both this messages to help!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (11:33)", "body": "It seems to be ok."}, {"response": 50, "author": "maud", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (11:47)", "body": "I also crashed on topic #32--yapp said they thought it was a netscape error. I've given up since I can never get a human being on the line when I call netscape. What is the content of topic 32 other than the 2 TEP premiere photos that ate retrievable through the FOF website?"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (19:25)", "body": "When I tried to access topic #11 this afternoon, I got a server error, #11 has disappeared from my topic index page ever since. If I access file 11 matually, I get a topic page with only #11. Is it just me ? Zimei"}, {"response": 52, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (21:01)", "body": "How are you accessing it manually? The only way that I know of is to change from \"new' mode to \"all\", and then you should be able to get all of it."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (23:26)", "body": "Joan too, I just change the filename on the location line. You might have already noticed that the filename corresponds to topic number. There are two directory trees browse for topic listings and read for reading the messages under specific topics. For example: http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/read/austen/9 will get you this page, while http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/9 will get you a topic page with only #9. (that's what happened with the one topic page I mentioned in my previous message.) I sometimes access several inconsective topics directly this way instead of going back to the browsing page everytime. Zimei"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (04:45)", "body": "speaking of server errors; every time (x2) I try to forget a topic I get a server error message. When I went back to the topic I found that it had in fact been forgotten, despite the server's anxieties. Terry, I saw a comment from Amy that she couldn't send you email. ~ 6 days ago I sent you a thank-you for you welcome message; it was returned undeliverable over the week-end. All my other mail has been going through OK. Were you aware that you may have a more general problem?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (05:17)", "body": "Terry, did you receive either the message I sent you last night (Friday) from my own ISP and/or the one I sent you tonight (Sat.) from here?"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (05:32)", "body": "Amy, have you deleted some topics? If not, my 'account' is getting flakey (it's never been quite right since I resigned and rejoined to change my pseudonym); I seem to hve lost a few topics; 25,48,50; they're not there in \"all\" and I haven't forgotten them. Just wondering..."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (06:19)", "body": "Let me check, Anna, I know for sure 50 is killed."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (06:51)", "body": "] I seem to hve lost a few topics; 25,48,50; ------------- No, you are not missing anything, Anna. Those are all dead topics. Dupes or mistakes. I won't hide anything that has any sort of content."}, {"response": 59, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (10:02)", "body": "Anna, \"speaking of server errors; every time (x2) I try to forget a topic I get a server error message. When I went back to the topic I found that it had in fact been forgotten, despite the server's anxieties.\" This is definitely something to report to Dave in the yapp conference! Terry, I saw a comment from Amy that she couldn't send you email. ~ 6 days ago I sent you a thank-you for you welcome message; it was returned undeliverable over the week-end. All my other mail has been going through OK. Were you aware that you may have a more general problem? I'm getting all my mail, it's just that I had copies forwarded to access.spring.com and this machine died a few days ago. So you're getting bounced messages that mail can't get to this machine. Next time you report a mail problem, please reproduce the header if you can with the details of the bounced message. From Amy: Terry, did you receive either the message I sent you last night (Friday) from my own ISP and/or the one I sent you tonight (Sat.) from here? I got them! Amy, I got two connect requests from you this morning on NetMeeting, I tried to answer you, believe me! Keep trying, this technology is worth mastering. The voice talk part reminds me of ham radio though, somethimes the connection is great and sometimes it's lousy."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (10:09)", "body": "] Amy, I got two connect requests from you this morning on NetMeeting, I tried to answer you, believe me! ____________ I know. I have trouble on my end. A bunch of relevant Windows files are missing suddenly. I have reinstalled Net Meeting and hope that does it. If not, guess I will have to blow out Windows. Haven't had to do that yet with Win95 Amy"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (17:08)", "body": "I agree with HC's comments (#36) above. I don't like the no-cache system here. I would like to be able to load the threads, log off my computer, and then read them off line to save on my quota (50 hours/month). I vote for a cache system."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (18:46)", "body": "] I vote for a cache system. ____________ Ann, I am not sure this is one of the configurable things. I have not learned enough about it yet, but I think the directive is part and parcel of the functionality in terms of keeping track of what you have read and what you have not read."}, {"response": 63, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (19:29)", "body": "] Terry: From Amy: Terry, did you receive either the message I sent you last night (Friday) from my own ISP and/or the one I sent you tonight (Sat.) from here? I got them! Terry that was not from Amy - it was from me. Did you get either of mine? they have not bounced back to me. Joan, too"}, {"response": 64, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (23:18)", "body": "I believe I got them. I'll recheck my mail. Did you send them to terry@www.spring.com (which I check rarely) or to terry@spring.com (which I check nearly every 5 minutes)?"}, {"response": 65, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (00:09)", "body": "] Terry\"\\; Did you send them to terry@www.spring.com (which I check rarely) or to terry@spring.com (which I check nearly every 5 minutes)? I sent 2 of them to the address that is in your header here - which is: \"mailto:terry@www.spring.com\", and I sent a third to \"terry@spring.com\" - I see that you have now seen the first 2, but not the one sent to terry@spring.com, which was far more detailed. Did that one not arrive?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (18:10)", "body": "I got it, It's just that I've been out of pocket all day. It's been a super day. I got hired! And it's my birthday to boot. It's been a great day! Oh, and I got the Texatel contract!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (19:27)", "body": "Haaaaapy Birrrrrrrthdaaaaaaaay toooooo youuuuuuuu! And congratulations, too. (BTW, what do you mean by out of pocket? I always took it to mean short of cash.)"}, {"response": 68, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (19:57)", "body": "That too! No, what \"out of pocket\" means is \"offline\" or not available. Which means I'm mobiling around Austin in my van and talking on the ham radio. If you want to listen in, connect to me on NetMeeting and you can hear me talking and even talk to me on the radio in my van. It's my Internet to mobile connection. So I'm never totally \"out of pocket\" Maybe broke, but not out of pocket!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (20:43)", "body": "Hi Terry Congratulations and Happy Birthday have a good one!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (20:51)", "body": "\"connect to me on NetMeeting \" Isn't that the one that only Windoze 95 folks can use? Many of us are \"technologically challenged\" in that regard."}, {"response": 71, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (16:40)", "body": "Here's the \"no-cache\" error message that you often get when you relaod (someitmes inadvertently) or try to \"go back\" -- Is this generated by the browser or the server?? [TITLE]Missing Post reply data[/TITLE] [H1]Data Missing[/H1] This document resulted from a POST operation and has expired from the cache. If you wish you can repost the form data to recreate the document by pressing the [b]reload[/b] button. Of course, pressing ``reload'' never works if you're reading new messages..."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (16:53)", "body": "] [TITLE]Missing Post reply data[/TITLE] It must be a browser thing. I have never seen this error message"}, {"response": 73, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (19:38)", "body": "] [TITLE]Missing Post reply data[/TITLE] This is the same one that I see so often - and I think it actually worked one (1) time. The convenience of being able to have links in postings is completely lost if the first one that you follow destroys your ability to return to where you were to try the others."}, {"response": 74, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (20:49)", "body": "Joan -- in Mac Netscape if you hold the mouse pressed down on a link without releasing, you get a menu from with you can select \"New Browser Window with this Link\" or something like that..."}, {"response": 75, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (21:15)", "body": ""}, {"response": 76, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (21:16)", "body": "Sorry, my cat submitted that last post. I think it must be the browser. I use back all the time on this board and have never experienced that error. Myretta"}, {"response": 77, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (23:00)", "body": "Thanks for reminding me about that HC, but that is definitely not intuituve! Myretta, are you saying that when you follow a link froma topic that you haven't finished reading, you can come back and still be where you were when you left off? When I go back even if there is not error message, al that is left is the te xt entry window. And all those messages that I hadn't yet read are marked as seen."}, {"response": 78, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (10:19)", "body": "]are you sayingthat when you follow a link froma topic that you haven't finished reading, you can come back andstill be where you were when you left off? Joan - No, I'm not saying that. When I follow a link and return to the board, the current topic is marked as read. What I don't get is thIs error message [TITLE]Missing Post reply data[/TITLE] [H1]Data Missing[/H1]"}, {"response": 79, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (10:35)", "body": "Myretta, can you follow a link in a posting, or post a followup, and then \"go back\" to the original display of messages, which may not have finished reading?? Most users of Netscape apparently CAN'T do this, due to the excessive use of no-cache directives."}, {"response": 80, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (14:46)", "body": "No, Henry. I can't do that. But I don't get an error message, just screen with no posts. Myretta"}, {"response": 81, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (18:33)", "body": "Well, don't you think it's annoying that one is not able to do that, then? (I only get the error message sometimes -- not as often as Joan, apparently...)"}, {"response": 82, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (09:53)", "body": "Absolutely, it's damned annoying and frequently makes me long for the Amy's board."}, {"response": 83, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (15:35)", "body": "Is there an easy way to include text from a previous post to which one would like to respond? Linda"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (16:19)", "body": "If you mean \"previous message\" to this one, hit \"redisplay\""}, {"response": 85, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (18:17)", "body": "Amy, question for you. OK I log in, check new and begin reading down the list. If I only get to half the list and log out will the half I have not read show the next time I log in? To make that cleared is \"new\" defined by my reading it or by the last time I logged in? thanks"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (18:40)", "body": "] Is there an easy way to include text from a previous post to which one would like to respond? ___ Linda, it is pretty manual right now. I just copied and pasted your comment above."}, {"response": 87, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (18:45)", "body": "] OK I log in, check new and begin reading down the list. If I only get to half the list and log out will the half I have not read show the next time I log in? To make that cleared is \"new\" defined by my reading it or by the last time I logged in? ___ I know I can answer the first part of your question, I am not sure about the second. The system will think you have read the whole topic, even if you only read one message, because each topic is just one file. This is the principle difference between this board and our old one, where every message was a different file. Imagine! As for the recognition of your log-in? I am fuzzier about that. Cookies are only vaguely comprehensible to me. However, unlike our dear Joan, I do not mind that they are known by that confectionary moniker. Amy"}, {"response": 88, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (19:50)", "body": "] Mich: OK I log in, check new and begin reading down the list. If I only get to half the list and log out will the half I have not read show the next time I log in? To make that cleared is \"new\" defined by my reading it or by the last time I logged in? Yes, the half of the topics that you have not actually opened will still be there and the postings that were considered new, will still be considered new until you actually open that topic. However, if you open a topic that had 20 new postings, and then had to quit after reading only 5 of them, the other 15 will still be counted as having been read, because, as Amy mentioned, each topic is a single file on the server. However, if you need to stop before finishing a topic, if you make note of the response number of the last one that you read, when you return you can go back and see those \"skipped over\" postings by entering the number of the last response that you actually did read in the little \"redisplay\" box at the bottom of the screen, and it will go back and show you everything from that message number onward. So to make it clear, \"new\" is defined by the date of your actually reading any part of a specific topic, not by the date of your last log in."}, {"response": 89, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (19:55)", "body": "Now, I would like to know why the \"repost this response\" thingie doesn't work. I got a warning message saying (truthfully) that I had an unclosed tag. I fixed it, and clicked the\" go ahead and post this\" button, and it went through the motions, but posted nothing. I like it very much that the software is checking my tags to make sure that I did it right, but it is useless if it then refuses to post your corrected text."}, {"response": 90, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (21:22)", "body": "Joan, re error checking. It should work better. What I do for now is make the correction, copy the post and post it as new."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (18:51)", "body": "Power users: The green smilies and frownies are now in the /usr/bbs/confs/austen dir so you shouldn't even need a path to put them in. But let's see:"}, {"response": 92, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (18:59)", "body": "No. What am I thinking. They would have to be in all these kinds of dirs: http://208.199.212.10/yapp-bin/restricted/respond/austen/9/since/-7 Well, not quite so easy but I'll put them in my public_html dir so all you should have to do is go [img src=\"~amy/ksmile.gif\"] (as is getting to be the convention here, square brackets mean pointy brackets)"}, {"response": 93, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:11)", "body": "I certainly do miss not being able to edit my posts. You guys never knew before how much I screwed up. [img src=\"/~amy/ksmile.gif\"] [img src=\"~amy/kfrown.gif\"] [img src=\"~amy/gsmile.gif\"] [img src=\"~amy/gfrown.gif\"]"}, {"response": 94, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:23)", "body": "Thanks Amy"}, {"response": 95, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:57)", "body": "] Amy : I certainly do miss not being able to edit my posts. You guys never knew before how much I screwed up. But think how much better that makes us all feel when we mess up."}, {"response": 96, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:58)", "body": "BTW, Amy, could you describe to us how to set up our own \"public\" directory - and give it the proper permissions?"}, {"response": 97, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (20:00)", "body": "The software here allows you to edit your posts. It would have to be added as an item. We may have talked about this in one of the yapp discussions. You can do a search for the word edit in the yapp conference."}, {"response": 98, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (20:15)", "body": "Joan, just type: mkdir public_html chmod a+xr public_html and voil\u00e0..."}, {"response": 99, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (20:25)", "body": "9:97 - Terry: You can do a search for the word edit in the yapp conference. And how is this acomplished, pray tell? (I don't recall seeing anything about searching, though I could well have overlooked it.)"}, {"response": 100, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (20:26)", "body": "9:98 - Henri: Joan, just type: mkdir public_html chmod a+xr public_html and voil\ufffd... Thanks HC - just what I needed. :-)"}, {"response": 101, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (20:28)", "body": "Search function button is on the main page of each conference, Joan. Maybe when we get things figured out we could put it on each topic page as well. I have found it most useful, especially given our group's undisciplined way of responding to anything in any topic."}, {"response": 102, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (21:03)", "body": "\"Search function button is on the main page of each conference,\" Oh - I thought he was talking about text-yapp - I'm sure there is a way there, too, but I haven't seen it. \"especially given our group's undisciplined way of responding to anything in any topic. \" This lack of discipline is not restricted to this group. Unless participating in a formal debare, almost nobody stays strictly on topic."}, {"response": 103, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (10:42)", "body": "Did somebody eat my cookie this morning?"}, {"response": 104, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (10:54)", "body": "\"Did somebody eat my cookie this morning?\" Well, last night I had the choice of chatting in Pemberley or going grocery shopping. I was hungry this morning!"}, {"response": 105, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (14:58)", "body": "A passing thought - is there anyway to change one's log-on password for Spring? If it's in the help file I missed it..."}, {"response": 106, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (16:34)", "body": "Anna, you must resign from the conference, I think, then re-up. This means all messages will be new to the new you."}, {"response": 107, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (17:06)", "body": "9:105 Anna: is there anyway to change one's log-on password for Spring? Yes - you have to go out to the main menu, and I think it is easy to find from there. (If I go to look now, I will lose my place here!)"}, {"response": 108, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (17:16)", "body": "I went and looked - here is the link (hopefully) - titled something like modify user info in the main menu. (and I don't think you need to do any resigning to change your password - only if you change your name and you want the change to take effect on a conference you had already joined under the old one.) [ http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/userinfo ] (just in case the first one doesn't work)"}, {"response": 109, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (17:50)", "body": "thanks Joan"}, {"response": 110, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:23)", "body": "If you're a shell user you can change your password with the passwd command Then you can synchronize your web password with the command webuser"}, {"response": 111, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:48)", "body": "uuuurk!"}, {"response": 112, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (21:10)", "body": "uuuurk?"}, {"response": 113, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (21:19)", "body": "9:110 Terry Then you can synchronize your web password with the command webuser This makes our original ID and our shell ID become one? 9:112 Terry: uuuurk? UNIX shells have that effect on a lot of people! ;-)"}, {"response": 114, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (21:20)", "body": "It makes them one! Oneness."}, {"response": 115, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (22:07)", "body": "Terry, it seems that with a .forward file, mail is BOTH forwarded to the specified address, and also added to the local mailbox /var/mail/USERNAME"}, {"response": 116, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (10:17)", "body": "First , pardon me if this has been up. I shall read through this whole topic when I get the time.But I want to post my dessert NOW! (Intentional screaming and bad temper.) I have tried three times this afternoon to send a dessert to the trolley thread and it just pushes them down on the floor.Where they disappear completely. So I must send out a warning!Lots of chocolate mousse is seeking it's target somewhere in cyberspace. But seriously I'm quite put out! Is it a case of Your tiny line is froozen or what?"}, {"response": 117, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (10:46)", "body": "Ann2, you are so cute. Try the remember button. If that does not stick, send me the post and I will put it up."}, {"response": 118, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:03)", "body": "Ann2, I think this may have been a permissions problem which (I admit) I may have inadvertently caused. I believe it is ok now. Please try again and let me know. Myretta"}, {"response": 119, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:57)", "body": "Anyone? I changed my login to mich instead of my full name but now my Pseudonym changes back and forth between my full name and Mich. It's not related to different sessions but does change between different Topics. Am I doing something wrong?"}, {"response": 120, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (14:54)", "body": ""}, {"response": 121, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (15:43)", "body": "I think the dessert is still frozen; I can't post to it either"}, {"response": 122, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (19:30)", "body": "Re: 9:119 - Mich: I changed my login to mich instead of my full name but now my Pseudonym changes back and forth between my full name and Mich. It's not related to different sessions but does change between different Topics. I believe that whatever \"real name\" was listed when one enters a topic sticks to that topic in perpetuity. (Well, almost) When I changed mine, I had to resign from the Austen conference and then re-join it, and after that, the name change took place in all items. The downside of this is that all one's pointers get re-set to the beginning and everything is considered \"new\" again."}, {"response": 123, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:21)", "body": "I just signed up under a different name. I never bothered to resign the first one.(Used the same password for both)"}, {"response": 124, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:28)", "body": "OK, guys. I believe the dessert trolley is now open for business again."}, {"response": 125, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:29)", "body": "I wish we had called psuedonym \"subject\" or \"headline\" so folks would get the idea they can use that to add to the content of their posts or use it as a humorous aside or something. Feel free to type whatever suits your fancy in to the psued box. You can ramble in psued too."}, {"response": 126, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:30)", "body": "slippage!"}, {"response": 127, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:41)", "body": "\"I just signed up under a different name. I never bothered to resign the first one.\" I thought about doing that, too - but a whole bunch of idle IDs can really clutter up a user list. Terry, do IDs here expire automatically if unused for \"x\" amount of time? (If that is the case, then nobody has to clean up after such \"ghosts\".)"}, {"response": 128, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (23:32)", "body": "Like old soldiers never dying, they just fade away."}, {"response": 129, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (20:11)", "body": "Re: 9:128 - Terry: \"Like old soldiers never dying, they just fade away.\" That's a comfort to know. :-) One more question, Terry - why is your HTTP server (\"Apache\") configured to ask for a cookie before displaying a large graphic? Seems to do it only the first time one asks."}, {"response": 130, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (21:23)", "body": "I'm not sure why and I don't have my Apache book here."}, {"response": 131, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (09:37)", "body": "Thanks for kind concern Amy and Myretta. Desserts are served this afternoon!"}, {"response": 132, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (11:28)", "body": "I looked in my Apache book but it's no help! Still looking for the answer to Joan's question."}, {"response": 133, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (19:02)", "body": "I can't post to the ball (104), 2 attempts. Has it been frozen perchance?"}, {"response": 134, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (20:06)", "body": "Anna, I can't find anything wrong with it, but thanks for telling me. I will try to track down Terry or Myretta."}, {"response": 135, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (20:43)", "body": "Re: 9:134 - Topic 104 - I'll take a look at it right away."}, {"response": 136, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (20:56)", "body": "Amy, Re: Topic 104 - The Ball. You own this topic and the permissions need to be opened up so others can write to it. Either you or Terry can go the the directory and type \"chmod 666 _104\" and that should take care of it. I'll create a second ballrom in case you don't get to this before 10:00 EST Myretta"}, {"response": 137, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:00)", "body": "Help!!! Why is every item all of a sudden marked new again??? It took 2 minutes to display this item all over again!!! This is the second time this month that this has happened (to me, at least!)."}, {"response": 138, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:09)", "body": "Good girl, Amy. The ballroom should be open now. M"}, {"response": 139, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:13)", "body": "Thanks Myretta. Looks like everybody is late, though, or partied out. Alors..."}, {"response": 140, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:24)", "body": "9:137 not to me Joan"}, {"response": 141, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:29)", "body": "Myretta, I only did what you said chmod 666 _104 Maybe Terry did something else that reset Joan's read messages?"}, {"response": 142, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:39)", "body": "Maybe Terry did something else that reset Joan's read messages? Perhaps so. I need to did deeper into Yapp. Any word on root access?"}, {"response": 143, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:44)", "body": "] word on root access? Not yet"}, {"response": 144, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:57)", "body": "I feel as though I'm nipping into the cloak room to have a chat away from the noisy crowd in the ball room."}, {"response": 145, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:00)", "body": "Or a smoke on the verandah."}, {"response": 146, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:05)", "body": "And I'm doing all this with a cat in my bathrobe! I don't know how I'll manage when he goes home."}, {"response": 147, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:17)", "body": "This isn't linked to yapp conference, is it?"}, {"response": 148, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (00:01)", "body": "A thought arising from this evening's ball (Austen topic 104). When one post's a new message to a topic it would be nice if the last message read and all the new messages before one's own were displayed, rather than just the message before one's own. Usually the message before one's own is the last message read, but if you get a group all posting at once there can be several messages in between. Then one has to remember the last message read and repost. I realise yapp isn't designed as 'chat' software, but having more than one person posting to a topic at once is bound to happen again, 16/12/97, if not before. (cross posted to yapp)"}, {"response": 149, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (07:50)", "body": "I've posted the \"everything old is new again\" problem on the yapp conference. How many have experienced it? (stuff you've already read is showing up as new)"}, {"response": 150, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (10:19)", "body": "Myretta, I don't have that problem, but I sympathize. What a nusiance, to go through again. It's all charming stuff, but one only has so much time.... Jane"}, {"response": 151, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (12:52)", "body": "It has happened to me twice already this month. The first time I did re-read it all. And now I am right back where I started. I am most seriously displeased!"}, {"response": 152, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (21:00)", "body": "The fix for this, for telnetters, is 'fixseen'. I wonder if there is a way to do this on the web?"}, {"response": 153, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (21:52)", "body": "Terry, what is the cause for the \"old is new\" trouble? Is there something a user can do to prevent it? Have you been getting my email?"}, {"response": 154, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (07:11)", "body": "It's a question for Dave. Did you see his response to Anna's question about what he's doing in the next release. A lot of the problems in this release will most likely be fixed inthe next release. And a lot of the features that you would like to see added to yapp can happen if you let Dave know what you need."}, {"response": 155, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (01:49)", "body": "I congratulated myself on my good fortune too soon. The dreaded \"everything old is new again\" syndrome finally hit me too."}, {"response": 156, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (01:51)", "body": "(((Will you pardon me for smirking ever so slightly if I do t behind my hand?)))"}, {"response": 157, "author": "amy", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (01:52)", "body": "You have every right, Joan."}, {"response": 158, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (01:53)", "body": "(((Will you pardon me for smirking ever so slightly if I do t behind my hand?)))"}, {"response": 159, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (01:54)", "body": "Hey! I did not smirk more than once, I promise you!"}, {"response": 160, "author": "amy", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (01:56)", "body": "I will just have to take your word for that, now, won't I?"}, {"response": 161, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (02:01)", "body": "My word is worth its weight in any precious commodity you care to name! :-)"}, {"response": 162, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (02:21)", "body": "Re-read everything TwicE already..."}, {"response": 163, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (16:42)", "body": "Any shell people here know how to delete/scribble/edit/whatever a response in the shell version of yapp? When I ask for \"help\" at the [RFP] prompt I get a large number of options, but it will not allow me to use them: ] [110/115] Respond, forget, or pass? scr 42 ] You don't have permission to affect response 42. (Response 42 is my own posting) Here is what it says is possible: [110/116] Respond, forget, or pass? help Commands available only at this prompt (_'s denote minimal abbreviations): [response range] - display all responses in the specified range cen_sor [#] - censor a response e_nter - enter a new item f_ind \"text\" - show all responses including a string of text forget - pretend item doen't exist freeze - stop any further responses to this item h_eader - redisplay item header k_ill - delete this item from current conference n_ew - stop reading, and leave responses here as new p_ass - go on to next item po_stpone - go on to next item, leaving responses here as new ps_eudonym - respond to item using a pseudonym r_espond - add a response to this item rem_ember - remove the forgotten status of this item reply [#] - send mail to the author of a response retire - make this item inaccessible to people scr_ibble [#] - censor and scribble over a response st_op - stop reading thaw - let people respond to this item again tree - show diagram of response tree unretire - make this item accessible to people again Other miscellaneous commands available: c_hange [arg] ... - change various parameters cd [directory] - changes the current directory cfdir - change default directory for personal YAPP files d_isplay [arg] ... - displays various parameters da_te [date] - show the result of a date specification def_ine [variable] [type] [value] - defines a variable or command alias ec_ho [string] - prints the specified string of text eval_uate [[range]] \"sepstring\" - evaluates a separator string h_elp [topic] ... - show help on various topics m_ail [user] - send mail to a specific user source [filename] - execute commands in a batch file t_est [range] - show the result of a range specification uma_sk [value] - sets current umask to value und_efine [variable] - deletes previously defined variable and its value See also: range"}, {"response": 164, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (19:51)", "body": "]Any shell people here know how to delete/scribble/edit/whatever a response in the shell version of yapp? When I ask for \"help\" at the [RFP] prompt I get a large number of options, but it will not allow me to use them: Joan, I'll be glad to remove change or remove something for you, if you'll let m know what it is. Leave message here or email me. My address is on the committee list. (the one here isn't working. I've got to fix it)."}, {"response": 165, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (21:25)", "body": "Thank you Myretta, but I want to be able to do it myself! I would like to be able to clear up messes that I make in a timely manner - before dozens of others have had to wade through them!"}, {"response": 166, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (09:29)", "body": "Myretta -- it's probably best not to delete a message by editing the raw topics file _[0-9]+ in a text editior, because this might throw off Yapp; it would be much better if we could find out how to enable \"scribbling\". I was trying to help out Amy, but neither of us could figure out how to do this..."}, {"response": 167, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (09:37)", "body": "Morning, Henry. Joan told me something we didn't think of. In the shell, while you are reading posts the scribble command shows up when you ask for \"help commands\" and can be envoked at that point. She was not able to make scribble, work, however, until I made her a host. See a summary of a meeting the other night in the deeper conference, a post by Myretta, under I think the Yapp issues or Austen Unix topic."}, {"response": 168, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (11:43)", "body": ""}, {"response": 169, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (11:43)", "body": "Oh, what the heck!"}, {"response": 170, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (14:55)", "body": "I've done it and it can be a disaster."}, {"response": 171, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "]Oh, what the heck! ]I've done it and it can be a disaster. No, no Terry, I was referring to my aborted attempted at a graphic above. I promise to be a good Yapp user."}, {"response": 172, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (17:30)", "body": ""}, {"response": 173, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (17:41)", "body": "Joan, as long as you edit only the MESSAGE areas of the file (carefully not changing or deleting any lines that begin with comma + capital letter), then there shouldn't be any major problems -- unless, of course, someone has posted a message to the topic between the time you read the message into your editor and the time you wrote it back out to the file"}, {"response": 174, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "(carefully not changing or deleting any lines that begin with comma + capital letter), You must be referring to Pico editing? I have seen no such lines in bbs/yapp text."}, {"response": 175, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (21:29)", "body": "I haven't much to add to what Henry just said, except that you can most likely tell from content if not from +Caps which parts of the file are messages and which are not."}, {"response": 176, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (03:55)", "body": "Well, I found out what \"censor\" does - and it is NOT edit! Response 168 of 175: Myretta Robens (mrobens) Sat, Jan 4, 1997 (11:43) 3 lines It leaves a CENSORED stamp where the text used to be! Ugh! And I guess scribbling is the same ting but without the CENSORED stamp - but how does one EDIT somt\u007fe ed Dang! I can't backspace in this Telnet window - and I guess one can't just hop intpo GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! hop into the editor from within this either!"}, {"response": 177, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (04:02)", "body": "Curiouser and curiouser. Now I am looking at it in web format, and the CENSORED stamp is not there - it looks exactly the same as a \"scribbled\" response. So why have two commands that do the same thing? I did it to 168 and 172 and there are just headers there with no text. The other thing I meant to say is that when I scribbled on my duplicate post over in topic 110 yesterday, it asked me for confirmation, but \"censor\" did not, and in fact I didn't think anything had happened to 168 (which was Myretta s) so thought I'd see if it would work on one of my own (172). I thought neither had worked till I went back and read them again."}, {"response": 178, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (04:06)", "body": "This is just a nothing message that I will try to censor or scribble on from the REDISPLAY box, If it is still here, you will know that it did not work."}, {"response": 179, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (04:07)", "body": "Well, I tried it, and got: Invalid command: scribble 178"}, {"response": 180, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (04:25)", "body": "Here I am in Telnet window again - I tried one more thing - went into topic 9 with pico and tried adding something to one of my posts. When I did ^X I got a message that the file could not be opened for writing. So, if postings can be edited by a \"fairwitness\" and I as supposedly one in this conf., how would I go about editing something?"}, {"response": 181, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (08:57)", "body": "Joan went exploring ] Well, I found out what \"censor\" does - and it is NOT edit! Maybe the only way to edit is to do in in the /usr/bbs/conf/austen/[_topic files]? ] Dang! I can't backspace in this Telnet window Joan look at my .profile file, modified to use a different shell script that I like much better and which allows destructive backspace. To change to it without modifying the .profile, type tcsh at the prompt. Is that right, Henry? - and I guess one can't just hop intpo GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! hop into the editor from within this either! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ] This is just a nothing message that I will try to censor or scribble on from the REDISPLAY box, If it is still here, you will know that it did not work. This is the box everybody has at the bottom of each topic page? What else can one do -- or what else is one supposed to be able to to -- in it? Only as host? ] Here I am in Telnet window again - I tried one more thing - went into topic 9 with pico and tried adding something to one of my posts. When I did ^X I got a message that the file could not be opened for writing. So, if postings can be edited by a \"fairwitness\" and I as supposedly one in this conf., how would I go about editing something? We still have to work out this whole file ownership thing, reconciling the Yapp user levels with the UNIX ones, and I'd say, for our conference anyway, be a little more trusting with write access generally."}, {"response": 182, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (09:01)", "body": "I meant to add to the thing about file ownership, UNIX did not care you are a fairwitness in Yapp. Yapp does not much care who you are in UNIX, either, it seems in some cases. That pesky little cfadm gets to bully his way around like the general's aide. Which reminds me, Terry, have you any objecting to our changing cfadm's profile config. I can't do anything as that little jerk."}, {"response": 183, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (09:32)", "body": "Oh-oh. What's going on this morning? Last three topics I tried to look at in the web interface returned a server error. Usually that is just a blip that trying again recifies. Not so today. No amount of persistence sems to signify. Hmm.."}, {"response": 184, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (09:46)", "body": "Amy: No, just run it by Dave in yapp or email him mailto://yapp@umich.edu ..if there's any potential problems that could could be caused by messing with cfadm I hope to see you in deeper today with the others. I'd like to get your opinions on some things."}, {"response": 185, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "As I already e-mailed to Amy and Joan, to fix the backspace in a telnet shell, you need to either change the configuration of your local telnet program, or to change stty erase '^H' to stty erase '^?' in your shell configuration file. If you're running sh / ksh / bash , then your shell configuration file is \".profile\", and if you're running csh or tcsh , then your shell configuration files are \".login\" and \".cshrc\". I think that tcsh is the easiest to use, and I've been known to \"push\" it onto others (like Amy...) To change your shell, run the \"chsh\" program, and change the appropriate line from \"/bin/sh\" to \"/bin/tcsh\", or whatever. If you run tcsh as your shell, it will treat both ^H and ^? (a.k.a. DEL a.k.a. ASCII 127) as backspace at the shell level (though this doesn't help you with subordinate programs such as \"pico\"). Amy, it would probably be best not to run \"chsh\" on the root and cfadm accounts, unless you know Terry is comfortable with tcsh ; to get your own configuration, type \"tcsh\" on the shell command line, then the commands \"source ~amy/.login\" and \"source ~amy/.cshrc\" to get your own accustomed configuration."}, {"response": 186, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (13:53)", "body": "Henry, can you help me figure out mime files for Realaudio on barton.spring.com and how to set up www.golftravel.net as a virtual domain on barton.spring.com? Meet me in deeper."}, {"response": 187, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "Amy: ] Well, I found out what \"censor\" does - and it is NOT edit! Maybe the only way to edit is to do in in the /usr/bbs/conf/austen/[_topic files]? Well, as you saw farther on down, that did not work, either. :-( Amy: ] This is just a nothing message that I will try to censor or scribble on from the REDISPLAY box, If it is still here, you will know that it did not work. This is the box everybody has at the bottom of each topic page? What else can one do -- or what else is one supposed to be able to to -- in it? Only as host? You are supposed to be able to type in stuff like message ranges - I am not sure what else might work, but I figured it could not hurt anything to try - worst case outcome is an error message. [grin] Amy: ] Joan look at my .profile file [snip] If I change my .profile, then there are other (different) instances in which I cannot use the backspace key. :-( I think I may eventually be able to fix this in my Telnet app, but I have not taken the time to understand what all that stuff means yet. Amy: ] UNIX did not care you are a fairwitness in Yapp. Right - it was late and I forgot when I was where and who was on first. :-) HC: ] If you're running sh/ksh/bash, HC, how do I tell (in my other shell hosts) what shell I am using? I have got them both to match, and would like this one to match as well. I would rather have them all work the same way than have whatever is \"coolest\" in some place and not in others. I have enough trouble with UNIX gobbledegook anyway without having to remember different things for different shells!"}, {"response": 188, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (06:08)", "body": "Run \"chsh\" or grep your name in /etc/passwd to tell which shell you're using. \"sh\" and \"csh\" are the two traditional basic shells, without much user friendliness. \"ksh\" and \"bash\" are enhanced versions of \"sh\", and \"tcsh\" is an enhanced version of \"csh\". I think you said you use \"csh\" elsewhere, so you should upgrade to \"tcsh\" (it's widely, though not universally, available, on recent Unix systems, and has lots of nifty features...). \"tcsh\" is backwards-compatible with \"csh\"."}, {"response": 189, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (06:09)", "body": "Joan, Type echo $SHELL at your unix prompt and it will tell you what shell you're using. For example, /bin/ksh."}, {"response": 190, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (06:21)", "body": "Actually, Myretta, $SHELL is an instruction to subordinate programs as to what shell they should use, but it does not NECESSARILY indicate what the presently-running shell is, or what the login shell is. For example, I have \"tcsh\" as my login shell, but on the U.Texas Unix systems I have $SHELL set to \"csh\", so that when other programs open up a sub-shell, they will use the simpler \"csh\" rather than the big \"tcsh\" shell..."}, {"response": 191, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (07:41)", "body": "Point taken, Henry. If Joan has set the SHELL variable in her .profile (or whatever) to something other than the system shell, echo $SHELL will show her whatever she has set there."}, {"response": 192, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "HC: ] Run \"chsh\" or grep your name in /etc/passwd Huh? HC: ] I think you said you use \"csh\" elsewhere. No - I don't remember what I'm using elsewhere - that's what I'd like to find out. HC: ] and has lots of nifty features...). Which would be completely wasted on me! :-) Myretta: ] If Joan has set the SHELL variable in her .profile (or whatever) to something other than the system shell Who, me? Joan has set nothing to anything - she doesn't even have enough knowledge to make it a dangerous thing. Her rule is: \"If you don't know what it is or how it works, don't mess with it.\" That makes 99% of stuff off limits! ;-)"}, {"response": 193, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (20:29)", "body": "Joan -- just type \"chsh\" on spring, and you'll be thrown into your editor and shown your configuration and be given an opportunity to edit it. \"fgrep jwinsor /etc/passwd/\" will show your account configuration info in a more raw way. And yes, I think even you will be able to grasp at least some of the nifty new features almost at once -- both types of backspaces work, the lefvt and right arrow keys work, the up and down arrow keys do command history. If you then discover the TAB key, you'll have grasped the basic essentials ;-)"}, {"response": 194, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (20:44)", "body": "\"And yes, I think even you will be able to grasp at least some of the nifty new features ' I assure you, you are greatly overestimating my \"talents\" in this arena; I would be unlikely to recognize a feature if it jumped out and bit me! It makes no difference if your car can go from zero to 60 in six seconds if you never drive it anywhere but in the driveway!"}, {"response": 195, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:09)", "body": "Henry, Amy said something about your scanning more graphical emoticons into her directory. Is this true? and if so can you send me a list of them so I can put them on the tutorial."}, {"response": 196, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "Ann, they still need to be snipped apart and worked on a little. Want to help?"}, {"response": 197, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "What can I do?"}, {"response": 198, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:23)", "body": "I will send you the files. Then you can look at them and we can talk about it."}, {"response": 199, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:23)", "body": "Speaking of help. The Spring needs help configuring realaudio on http://www.childrenstory.com . We need immeidate help, please get in touch with me or Amy right away if you know how to set up a realaudio server or know someone who can help with this. It's pretty urgent."}, {"response": 200, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:27)", "body": "Amy, I shall await the files with eager anticipation!"}, {"response": 201, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:28)", "body": "On the other hand, it may be easier for you to tell me where they are, and I can get them myself."}, {"response": 202, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (07:04)", "body": "Ann, I am putting the new ones in /~amy/emo This is perplexed (perp.gif). Henry just don't say anything. (He won't like it because the bg will dither and the shape is not round like a 70's happy face.) Just keep it to yourself. Let it soak in on me and I may come around. Or not."}, {"response": 203, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (07:08)", "body": "Try again. Ann, I am putting the new ones in /~amy/emo This is perplexed (perp.gif). Henry just don't say anything. (He won't like it because the bg will dither and the shape is not round like a 70's happy face.) Just keep it to yourself. Let it soak in on me and I may come around. Or not."}, {"response": 204, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (09:06)", "body": "Actually, Amy, I think the background is \"pre-dithered\" (the little dots are hard-coded into the .gif). I think the round shape does make for easier recognition as a stylized face, yes..."}, {"response": 205, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (14:40)", "body": "Amy, look at how it appears at 5 x magnification: The anti-aliasing is for black, not minty green, and the dithering was introduced by the gif-creation program, not by the browser..."}, {"response": 206, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (00:32)", "body": "I too have been struck new' about 40 minutes ago. Was any of the hosts redecorating at the time perchance?"}, {"response": 207, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "Look. Just about the time the clock reset. Mrs Columbo we need you."}, {"response": 208, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:38)", "body": "I'm on the case. Mrs. C"}, {"response": 209, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:39)", "body": "btw, it seems probable that it is as a result of posting while their is 'background' work going on that one is struck new; has anyone informed Dave Thaler of our conclusions? If not I'll post it in Yapp."}, {"response": 210, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:17)", "body": "]result of posting while their is 'background' the shock was too much for me; that should have read result of loading while there is background I hardly dare hit the submit button, for fear it strikes again"}, {"response": 211, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "Please post it in yapp. Or email yapp@umich.edu"}, {"response": 212, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:06)", "body": "] Please post it in yapp OK"}, {"response": 213, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:30)", "body": "Is it just me or is anyone else having problems here the last two days? The speed is at a snails pace. It takes me 2 to 3 minutes to load a topic? when loading 1/2 the time I get a message telling server is down or not responding? I thought maybe my network at work was the problem but it's doing the same thing to me at home tonight? Anyone have ideas? help Mich"}, {"response": 214, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:50)", "body": "Mich: Is it just me or is anyone else having problems here the last two days? The speed is at a snails pace. It takes me 2 to 3 minutes to load a topic? Same problem here Mich...something's up..."}, {"response": 215, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (02:16)", "body": "Slower than molasses in January!"}, {"response": 216, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (07:12)", "body": "There have apparently been ice storms in the Austin area which have caused power outages. That's why the server has been unavailable and is probably related to other problems."}, {"response": 217, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (07:40)", "body": "A new odd thing happened at just after 7:30 central. Topics with new messages I had just read showed up on the main Austen conference page as still unread. When I took the links I found, in each case, no new messages, only a page with the message form only. Hmmmm."}, {"response": 218, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (07:41)", "body": "Oh. I bet I know. It is probably a result of putting the date right."}, {"response": 219, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "Oh. I bet I know. It is probably a result of putting the date right That would be my guess, Amy."}, {"response": 220, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (14:10)", "body": "--- I had just read showed up on the main Austen conference page as still unread. When I took the links I found, in each case, no new messages, only a page with the message form only. Hmmmm. Funny it does but only on 2 topic, Austen in Boston and Terry's new conferences one."}, {"response": 221, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "]I had just read showed up on the main Austen conference page as still unread. When I took the links I found, in each case, no new messages, only a page with the message form only. Hmmmm. Curioser and curioser; it's just started doing it to me, topics 113, 114, 117 only."}, {"response": 222, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "and also topic 3 in Austen test..."}, {"response": 223, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "I think the blank topics problem should disappear once we catch up with and pass messages with future dates."}, {"response": 224, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:37)", "body": "you're right Amy; 113 just disappeared off my 'new' list; it's last time was Jan 9 2020."}, {"response": 225, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:35)", "body": "Since yesterday, when I select 'new' each topic still displays every single entry since the beginning of the topic. Is anyone else experiencing this? If I select 'activity in the last week' that works OK."}, {"response": 226, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:15)", "body": "Mary you have been struck by the 'new-is old' bug ( see above discussion). Comiserations from a fellow sufferer"}, {"response": 227, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:16)", "body": "]'new-is old' err; that should have been 'old-is-new'"}, {"response": 228, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (07:14)", "body": "We've been having clock problems because of the relentless ice storms and power outages hittig the normally benign Austin area. The other day, we had nine power outages in a day. All our recent problems are weather and power surge related. Any member of our unix team with superuser privs can reset the clock if they notice the time is off. The command, at the shell, is called 'time'. Or if you're at an ok prompt type !time"}, {"response": 229, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (10:50)", "body": "Well, I was struck yesterday with the \"everything old is new again\" phenomeon, but this had a different twist to it from what I understand from fellow sufferers...only a little over half of my messages were \"new again\"--from topic 71 and on...??? Curiouser and curiouser! But on the up side, whilst I was \"reading\" everything again, I hied myself over to the Soliciter's Office and practiced my HTML!!"}, {"response": 230, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (19:58)", "body": "I've been running webuser on most of the folks here so that your web stuff will now be synchronized with anything you do in unix. This command is fixed now. So your web password should be the same as that in the shell."}, {"response": 231, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (21:08)", "body": "\"So your web password should be the same as that in the shell.\" But I didn't want to do that yet, Terry - unless multiple simultaneous logins from the same ID are permitted. I am still at the stage when if I do something in web I want to see what it looks like in bbs, and vice versa. So I am sometimes logged on both as a web user and as a shell user. Now if I try to do that, is it going to refuse me permission, because I am already logged on? (I know that this can be a problem because at tmn they used to allow multiple simultaneous logins, and then changed - and t at means that if one's ISP drops carrier, one can not log back in at all until 15 minutes of inactivity on the previous login has occurred and the server closes the connection at the other end. :-("}, {"response": 232, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (12:20)", "body": "It shouldn't cause any problems like you describe. I haven't had any problems being synched like this for months."}, {"response": 233, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (17:05)", "body": "for the log; I was struck new again about 5-10 minutes ago, after spring temporarily stopped responding for 5 mins. Backroom activity recorded?"}, {"response": 234, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (18:01)", "body": "Anna, you experienced one of the power outages that have been happening frequently. Stay tuned, a major ice storm and freezing weather is headed this way again. It's just moving into the area."}, {"response": 235, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (18:27)", "body": "AMY AMY AMY AMY Just change provider and am now with Explorer since it comes with Win95. Major problem : been trying to e-mail you all day. Always returned as undeliverable. Please e-mail me at dagetter@dsuper.net."}, {"response": 236, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (18:29)", "body": "Johanne, why don't you use spring.com as your popmail server?"}, {"response": 237, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (18:29)", "body": "Actually, can not understand what I'm doing wrong, but unable to use internet mail in and out. This is my only source out there, somebody please e-mail my, Terry, Caroline, anyone... Amazing how desperate you get when you can not connect anymore."}, {"response": 238, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "Hi Terry, glad someone's there. What do you mean popmail server? and BTW were should I go to change my e-mail address on you conference?"}, {"response": 239, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (18:34)", "body": "Testing one two for new e-mail"}, {"response": 240, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "Yes, it's getting very cold here, Terry. No power outages yet where I am (central Austin), though..."}, {"response": 241, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "This server is located in North Austin, Henry. Johanne, I ( or any member of the unix team) can set up an account for you and then you can get your mail at johanne@spring.com. Just let us know if you want it. Popmail is the way Netscape gets mail, it pulls it off of our popmail server."}, {"response": 242, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (22:04)", "body": "Johanne, who is your new provider? If anyone else here is using the same one, perhaps they can help you configure your software for mail. Configuring for the first time can be confusing and frustrating, but once you get all of the necessary info in the right places it should all run smoothly."}, {"response": 243, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (22:32)", "body": "Terry: I've been running webuser on most of the folks here so that your web stuff will now be synchronized with anything you do in unix. This command is fixed now. So your web password should be the same as that in the shell. Terry, are you sure it worked? I wasn't thinking about it when I logged in and I used my old web password, and it worked. I thought I should have had to use the shell password???"}, {"response": 244, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (22:33)", "body": "I don't think I did yours. Do you want me to?"}, {"response": 245, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (03:10)", "body": "I'd prefer to stay the way I am for a little longer if it's OK - I do intend to merge once I get my conceptual map completed."}, {"response": 246, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "Follow-up to 137:11. I tried to 'remember' one of my 'forgotten' topics by clicking on the remember button; I was asked for my user name and password, then returned to the forgotten list; the topic remained forgotten. I tried a couple of times; still forgotten. I checked; I don't see it in the 'all' list. It's of no importance - I picked an extinct topic to be unread, but I can't help wondering; has anyone ever successfully 'remembered' a 'forgotten' topic?"}, {"response": 247, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (18:03)", "body": "Have you tried doing it in the shell?"}, {"response": 248, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (18:35)", "body": "Have you tried doing it in the shell? This is not really the point - if that option is going to be offered to web browser users (the button is there) then it ought to work in the web version."}, {"response": 249, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (19:18)", "body": "]Have you tried doing it in the shell? me? shell Terry, only uinder conditions of dire emergency would I attempt such a thing! I don't have, and have never aspired to, a shell account."}, {"response": 250, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (19:50)", "body": "Exsqueeze me!"}, {"response": 251, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (09:51)", "body": "A little UNIX help for me and Bernie? Log from chat: From: Bernie at 1/15/97 10:32 AM Amy, call me stupid. I've been trying to organise mail collection in the Spring account. I typed in \"set ma\" to flag this option and when I display the flag it says that it's switched on. OK, now if I logout and come back in again and I look at my mail options that flag is switched off again. So what am I doing wrong ? I told you I was useless at UNIX :( From : Amy Oh, I am worthless with most of that non-web, sysadmin stuff Bern. But I will copy your explanation here and ask Myretta or somebody about it in the help topic. Maybe your profile needs to be changed, but I can't run pico myself due to a terminal emulation problem, though I can in my other shell accounts with the same troublesome telnet ap, so I think it's something that needs to be configured on Spring's end -- not on your account level I will try to find out and understand it for both of us."}, {"response": 252, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (10:05)", "body": "A little UNIX help for me and Bernie? When you set a variable at the command line, it only lasts as long as the session during which you set it. It should be added to your .profile if you want it to be invoked each time you log on. If you are having trouble with the editor, please tell me what you want set and I'll be glad to do it for you. Myretta"}, {"response": 253, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (10:17)", "body": "Actually, I didn't mean pico, Myretta. We were talking about mail. I meant Pine. I always say that wrong. I do have pico now, Terry set it for me, and Henry set my shell to tcsh. I would like to know how to do this sort of thing for myself and for others. Thanks."}, {"response": 254, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (12:25)", "body": "Amy, I'd be glad to meet you in the office and walk you through anything I can help with. Or I'll post directions here. I guess I'm not really clear on what you want to do. Do you want to edit your .profile? Let me know."}, {"response": 255, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (05:00)", "body": "Amy, the command to set one's login shell is \"chsh\". Maybe I could look at your configuration files on the other systems to see if there are any differences in, for example, stty commands..."}, {"response": 256, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (12:23)", "body": "Wasn't sure which topic to add this under; decided it would fit in better here than \"Best of chat\":"}, {"response": 257, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (16:20)", "body": "Henry -- I am truly concerned for Joan's safety and sanity. I do hope that some of you computer \"beasty tamers\" will make certain that she comes to no harm. (I love the \"no apple\" signs!)"}, {"response": 258, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (21:59)", "body": "HC: Wasn't sure which topic to add this under; decided it would fit in better here than \"Best of chat\": Sir, you are too cruel, for it is obvious that it is escape that I would wish for rather than \"help\"! Kathleen: (I love the \"no apple\" signs!) That is the scariest part of the whole graphic! On the whole, however, I must express myself as being quite"}, {"response": 259, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (07:53)", "body": "I wanted to put links to some of the Goled Globe winners.I guess the pictures expired from cache."}, {"response": 260, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (08:07)", "body": "Donna, thanks for starting a Golden Globes awardin the movies conference. Starting topics topic in other conferences is a healthy trend to be encouraged. Will you please post a list of the winners in this topic? That would be helpful because some folks, like me right at this moment, don't have access to a web browser (I'm on notebook with terminal only)."}, {"response": 261, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (09:44)", "body": "Supporting actress,motion picture: *Lauren Bacall*,\"The Mirror Has Two Faces.\" Supporting actor,motion picture: *Edward Norton*,\"Primal Fear.\" Actor,TV series musical or comedy: *John Lithgow*,\"3rd Rock From the Sun\" Actress,TV series musical or comedy: *Helen Hunt*,\"Mad About You.\" TV series,musical or comedy: \"3rd Rock From the Sun.\" Director,motion picture: *Milos Forman*, \" The People vs.Larry Flynt.\" Supporting actress,TV series, miniseries or TV movie: *Kathy Bates*, \"Late Shift\"(HBO) Supporting actor,TV series,miniseries or TV movie: *IanMcKellen* \"Rasputin.\"(HBO) Original score,motion picture: *Gabriel Yared*, *\"English Patient*.\" Miniseries or TV movie: \"*Rasputin*.\" Actor,motion picture musical or comedy: *Tom Cruise*,\"Jerry Maguire.\" Actress,motion picture musical or comedy: *Madonna*,\"Evita.\" Cecil B. DeMille Award: *Dustin Hoffman* Actress, miniseries or TV movie: *Helen Mirren*,\"Losing Chase.\" Actor,miniseries or TV movie: *Alan Rickman*, \"Rasputin.\" Actress, TV drama series: *Gillian Anderson*, \"The X-Files\"(Fox). Actor,TV drama series: *David Duchovny*, \"The X-Files.\" TV series, drama: \"*The X-FIles*.\" Original song,motion picture: \"You Must Love Me\"(from Evita\"),music by *Andrew Loyd Webber*, lyrics by *Tim Rice*. Screenplay,motion picture: \"The People vs Larry Flynt,\" *Scott Alexander* and *Larry Karaszewski*. Foreign language film: \"Kolya,\"the *Czech Republic*. Motion picture, musical or comedy: \"*Evita*.\" Actress,motion picture drama: *Brenda Blethyn*, \"Secrets and Lies.\" Actor,motion picture drama: *Geoffrey Rush*, \"Shine.\" Motion picture, drama: *\"The English Patient*.\" I did enjoy everyones exception speeches.It just seemed that everyone was having a hard time getting up to the stage. Donna I hope this works"}, {"response": 262, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:11)", "body": "Very complete list, Donna, thanks. No CF sighting at this event unfortunately (or did I miss something?) BTW, I think you mean 'acceptance', but there were a few I heard that could be classified as 'exceptions' as well."}, {"response": 263, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:19)", "body": "Thanks Mary,BTW he was mentioned as part of the cast."}, {"response": 264, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (21:11)", "body": "Yah, he was the LAST one named! But at least he WAS named.."}, {"response": 265, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (23:54)", "body": "I think you're right, Donna..."}, {"response": 266, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "When i click on \"Live Chat in the Pemberly Drawing Room\" all i get is rules that I do not understand and no CHAT............can anyone help"}, {"response": 267, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (14:20)", "body": "TJ...I left you a note with instructions on the Best of Chat topic...email me if you need more help. clsneed@ix.netcom.com"}, {"response": 268, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (14:22)", "body": "Or if you still have trouble, TJ, copy the garbage you get and paste it in here so we can better diagnose."}, {"response": 269, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (07:53)", "body": "TJ, could you describe this a little more exactly? I've used this link and it's worked. Can someone post the exact link to Pemberly chat so TJ can bookmark it and find his way there?"}, {"response": 270, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (08:36)", "body": "1. Only need to add you name; 2. Specify Pemberley Drawing Room 3., others infos are optional http://www.worldrch.com/cgibin/Chat/nph-chat.cgi"}, {"response": 271, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (08:37)", "body": "1. Only need to add you name; 2. Specify Pemberley Drawing Room 3. Click on Enter Chat Room button ps : other infos are optional for your pleasurable enjoyment : http://www.worldrch.com/cgibin/Chat/nph-chat.cgi"}, {"response": 272, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (21:05)", "body": "Also , unlike many other chatrooms, new postings do not automatically appear. Once you get in, you must either make a posting of your own, or click on the \"New Messages\" button in order to see what others are saying. New people often wander in and do not see anyone answering their greeting (because they did not click \"New Mesages\") and then leave disappointed! This chat software must also have been invented by someone who reads in the Asian manner. The newest messages are at the top of the page, not the bottom."}, {"response": 273, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (21:08)", "body": "Now why did the html editor not tell me that my tag was messed up! Sorry about that!"}, {"response": 274, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (21:09)", "body": "My finger is too heavy on the shift key!"}, {"response": 275, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (21:11)", "body": ""}, {"response": 276, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (21:14)", "body": "(Did someone turn off the html editor? It just let me submit a posting with nothing but a closing tag! It should have complained about that, too!)"}, {"response": 277, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (00:27)", "body": "The filter may not be set up to look for a [u] tag, Joan. We can check."}, {"response": 278, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (08:01)", "body": "We're supposed to have 'sanity checking'. For tags, that is."}, {"response": 279, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (08:23)", "body": "Using netscape gold 3.1 as in Amy's memo, typed telnet:www.spring.com, nothing happens, normal? think not. furthermore : got netmeeting : is uls.microsoft.com the right uls for get in contact with terry or amy?"}, {"response": 280, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (08:34)", "body": "uls1.microsoft.com, Johanne. Sorry I have not been around more to help. Arnessa needs some basic help in the shell too. Maybe we can all do it togehter."}, {"response": 281, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (08:34)", "body": "Joan, the reason why Yapp hasn't been set up by default to check [u][/u] is that [u][/u] is not really a standard HTML tag. You should really use [i] or [b] instead, because they are more widely supported, and because [u] can create confusion with links (which are also underlined in many browsers)..."}, {"response": 282, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (08:35)", "body": "Oh, and when I am on, I use the nickname \"Your mom.\" It helps a lot with harrassment. What horny little 19 year old will want to deal with that?"}, {"response": 283, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (08:47)", "body": "Is extra-heavy-drooling material the norm at uls.microsoft.com ? was amazed at the mentions"}, {"response": 284, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (08:53)", "body": "All the channels are like that J."}, {"response": 285, "author": "bernie", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (12:36)", "body": "Johanne, Try typing telnet://www.spring.com . Provided you've configuered Netscape to locate a telnet program this should work."}, {"response": 286, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (23:51)", "body": "Terry: \"We're supposed to have 'sanity checking'. For tags, that is.' What does sanity checking mean? HC: [u][/u] is not really a standard HTML tag. You should really use [i] or [b] instead, because they are more widely supported, and because [u] can create confusion with links (which are also underlined in many browsers)... My dear HC, a single word underlined for emphasis bears no resemblance at all to a link in anyone's browser. And I refuse to have my formatting preferences limited by the arbitrary whims of some scruffy browser author who wishes to dictate style by fiat! I have had the html watchdog recall postings that just accidentally included an angle bracket without any legimate tag in it at all - just for having an angle bracket. So why it should let me get away with a complete tag (no matter what was inside the brackets) that was not followed by a closing tag, is beyond my comprehension! (so there!) ;-)"}, {"response": 287, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (01:53)", "body": "My dear Joan, it's not merely the browser authors, but the HTML standard-setters, who have so far conspicuously failed to include [u] in any HTML standard of note (HTML 2.0, HTML 3.2, whatever). Look at the HTML guide at http://www.werbach.com/barebones/ in which [u] is listed as \"not widely implemented\". Furthermore, in the real world of designing and publishing printed material, underlining is considered ugly and amateurish -- pick up a typical book or magazine, and look at how much underlining you can find, as compared to italicizing and bolding. Since [u] is not on Yapp's list of tags to check for, it considers it a no-account trash tag, and lets you do whatever you want with it... (For all it knows, [u] could be a non-terminating tag like [br], [hr] or [img].)"}, {"response": 288, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (12:23)", "body": "Maybe an old problem, but new to me or is it just that I have reached this level of awareness, that permits me to describe it to myself and anybody kind enough to give advice. When I was trying out favourite websites of others, and used the 'back' knob in netscape's tool line, I did not get back to topic or even spring. What is wrong? Screen message: Data missing! If you want to reload... AHAA Ithought to myself, this rings a bell of warning...is this what leads to the notorious 'all new' that so many have been lamenting about? However when I clicked at underlined Go I was able to return."}, {"response": 289, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (12:51)", "body": "Ann, when you get that reload screen, just hit the back button again (maybe twice). It should work. If you reload at that time, you will repost what was already posted--leading to double entries you see around here a lot."}, {"response": 290, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (17:23)", "body": "Ann2 -- The difficulties in using the browser \"back\" button have to do with \"no-cache\" HTTP headers issued by Yapp -- a different problem than \"old is new\"."}, {"response": 291, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (17:54)", "body": "I have encountered this problem -- but clicking on the reload icon got me back to where I had been, and w/o posting a message (blank or otherwise)."}, {"response": 292, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (21:04)", "body": "Kathleen: but clicking on the reload icon got me back to where I had been, and w/o posting a message (blank or otherwise). I'll bet that is because you had not posted anything in the topic yet before you used \"back\" - and I'll also bet that if you had some \"new\" postings displayed, when you did get back they were no longer visible. A most irritating bug!"}, {"response": 293, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (20:30)", "body": "The Spring server is dishing out multiple helpings of SERVER ERROR messages this evening. At about 5:25 PST it gave me 5 in a row but finally connected from the main menu - at which time it looked as if Austen had been struck with Old-is-new again - it listed 167 topics as being new - but when I entered, it turned out to be a false alarm - THANK GOODNESS! But the server errors continue....."}, {"response": 294, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (19:25)", "body": "Same with me on Monday : multiple Server error, old is new on one topic but all was well after that"}, {"response": 295, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:05)", "body": "multiple Server error, Monday AM. Couldn't see anything immediately wrong with system."}, {"response": 296, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "Does anyone know what happened to the next topic button? It seems to have been replaced by a hand written one?????"}, {"response": 297, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (23:17)", "body": "Gee, I wonder who's to blame? >>>>> <<<<<"}, {"response": 298, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (00:21)", "body": "Geez! what a tattle-tale! ;-)"}, {"response": 299, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (01:16)", "body": "And also, sometimes that button is \"Previous Topic\" and sometimes \"Next Topic.\" Can it be changed to always be Next Topic?"}, {"response": 300, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (08:08)", "body": "Terry, I take it you don't like my experiment. I don't know if you have been following our ongoing button saga. It seems it is impossible to change buttons on a conference by conference basis. You would probably agree that the green, red and blue buttons look ghastly with our regency green. So what to do? I'll keep at it in hopes of finding something that blends better with both color schemes. Though, truthfully? I made the Middlemarch and drool conferencs to match the buttons? And I am starting to like their looks. All things considered, though, it might be best to have a more neutral button, so that conferences do not have to be designed around them. No?"}, {"response": 301, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (08:09)", "body": "] And also, sometimes that button is \"Previous Topic\" and sometimes \"Next Topic.\" Can it be changed to always be Next Topic? __ I am not sure what you mean, Susan."}, {"response": 302, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (08:42)", "body": "Just make it look good. I'm looking at it on a monochrome notebook."}, {"response": 303, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (22:09)", "body": "#301 Amy, sometimes my Next Topic button is at the bottom right of my message screen, but sometimes it is clear over at the bottom left. I haven't figured out any rhyme or reason to it -- maybe I'm doing something weird?"}, {"response": 304, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (21:31)", "body": "Amy, sometimes my Next Topic button is at the bottom right of my message screen, but sometimes it is clear over at the bottom left. I haven't figured out any rhyme or reason to it -- maybe I'm doing something weird? __ That must be it, Susan. You must be doing something weird. No, really two explanations I can think of. Maybe you are resizing your browser window, like if you made it small, you would cause buttons to jump down to begin a new row. The other thing is the that the main conference page has different buttons from each topic page. One example: you can search for text in the whole conference on the front page, no search is available by topic."}, {"response": 305, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (10:50)", "body": "Moved from topic 137 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 137 of 181: \"Old is New\" explained! Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (09:03) | Henry (churchh) For a while now, I've had the suspicion that the \"old is new\" problem affects people who have completely \"caught\" up\" in a conference (i.e. who have read all messages in all topics, or have \"forgotten\" the topics they have not read). This was recently confirmed for me when the \"old is new\" problem hit me for the first time ever -- in the Austentest conference, which is the only conference, out of all those I am subscribed to, in which I have read all the messages in all the topics. So I conclude that if you don't want to be affected by this problem, you should have at least one topic in a conference which you leave unread. (For me, the \"drooling\" thread serves this purpose .) Maybe we could set up a dummy thread in this conference (with a subject of \"DON'T READ THIS\" or something), whose only purpose would be to save people from \"old is new\" by remaining unread? 47 new of 47 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 137 of 181 [austen]: \"Old is New\" explained! Response 1 of 47: Kathleen Grant (Kaffeine) * Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (10:46) * 3 lines HC - I don't know. I have frequently read all the messages in all the topics, both here and at austentest, and have never experienced the \"old is new\" phenomenon. {knocking on every wooden object I can find} ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 137 of 181 [austen]: \"Old is New\" explained! Response 2 of 47: Amy (Amy) * Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (11:05) * 2 lines Your experience would tend to support your theory, Henry. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 137 of 181 [austen]: \"Old is New\" explained! Response 3 of 47: Ann (Ann) * Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (12:08) * 3 lines I also usually have all messages read and never have had this problem. There is a problem with leaving one topic open--the next messages tag. If you use the next messages link, you will not know when you are getting to the dummy topic. If the dummy topic were the first one, then there would not be a problem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 137 of 181 [austen]: \"Old is New\" explained! Response 4 of 47: Amy (Amy) * Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (12:13) * 2 lines Good point, Ann. Always thinkin', aren't you darlin'? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 137 of 181 [austen]: \"Old is New\" explained! Response 5 of 47: Ann (Ann) * Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (12:17) * 1 lines I have a lot of time on my hands, Mom. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 137 of 181 [austen]: \"Old is New\" explained! Response 6 of 47: Donna (Donna) * Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (13:12) * 1 lines Ok I guess I should tell,I hit forgotten and got \"old is new\". It happen a few days ago. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 137 of 181 [austen]: \"Old is New\" explained! Response 7 of 47: Hilary Talbot (Hilary) * Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (13:58) * 3 lines I haven't experienced the O is N syndrome. I've also not used the 'forget' button - what does it do? But because I was so far behind in reading anything at all I've been using the URL thing that Amy gave me, set to -1 : ( http://208.199.212.10/yapp-bin/restricted/read/austen/137/since/-1 This gives me the last days messages, and I'm catching up. Does using this help with the O is N? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 137 of 181 [austen]: \"Old is New\" explained! Response 8 of 47: Ann (Ann) * Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (16:22) * 1 lines I have a lot of time on my hands, Mom. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 137 of 181 [austen]: \"Old is New\" explained! Response 9 of 47: Ann (Ann) * Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (16:27) * 1 lines How did that post a second time, and four hours after it first went up??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 137 of 181 [austen]: \"Old is New\" explained! Response 10 of 47: Mary C. Fox (MaryC) * Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (16:28) * 2 lines I am one of those acknowledged computor illiterates. Two or three times a week, I go into this conference and read all the new stuff. I never had the 'old is new' problem until the Austin area had all the weather problems this past week. I just went through the entire list presented to me as \"new\" and scrolled or read everything to the end of each (It's a cold, rainy day here in San Diego and the playoffs are on...and yes, I know, \"cold\" here is a joke). Will let you know what happens next time I go i to read all the new stuff again. Thanks for all your attention to this frustrating problem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 137 of 181 [austen]: \"Old is New\" ex"}, {"response": 306, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Nov 15, 2000 (08:21)", "body": "test. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 60, "subject": "P&P 200 birthday!", "response_count": 31, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "saskia", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (11:29)", "body": "Shouldn't we organize an \"internetional\" birthday-party for Jane Austen too? She'll be 221 on December 16th! Maybe a ball?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (11:37)", "body": "A ball! I long for a ball. Terry and I have been talking about organizing some chat events here. Regular chat among our crowd is to stay at Kaffeine's suite of rooms. She wnats it that way and we like it over there. But to try out Ichat we were kicking around some one-time only events to which we might invite our cousins, the Firthlisters, Austen-Lers & etc. - Virtual ball - Trivia duel - Roleplaying Amy"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (13:40)", "body": "Oh Amy, it sounds like ever so much fun, and it will, you realize, be Caroline Bingley's perfect ideal of a Ball: \"I should like balls infinately better if they were carried on in a different manner...It would surely be much more rational if conversation instead of dancing made the order of the day.\""}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (13:40)", "body": "We might try organizing some chat conferences with NetMeeting."}, {"response": 5, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (16:19)", "body": "Terry, I hate to damp your ardour, but this \"Netmeeting\" thing sounds like a big bandwidth hog, not to mention that I access the web through Lynx on a Unix shell account, though X-Windows on Netscape on that same Unix account, through Netscape on a Macintosh, and even occasioanlly through Netscape on Windows. I can't do any configuring of the Mac or Windows browsers because they're on machines in university public computer labs. And it would be hard to use sound capabilities either (I might bring my own headphones, but would be unable to use any microphones). My problems are particular to myself, but I'm sure there are many other who access the web from different set-ups and with different software, and may not be able to plug in the latest spiffiest stuff, or might not be able to use it effectively even if they did plug it in. Please, let's not exclude such people..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (16:23)", "body": "Terry, I hate to damp your ardour, but this \"Netmeeting\" thing sounds like a big bandwidth hog, not to mention that I access the web through Lynx on a Unix shell account, though X-Windows on Netscape on that same Unix account, through Netscape on a Macintosh, and even occasioanlly through Netscape on Windows. I can't do any configuring of the Mac or Windows browsers because they're on machines in university public computer labs. And it would be hard to use sound capabilities either (I might bring my own headphones, but would be unable to use any microphones). My problems are particular to myself, but I'm sure there are many other who access the web from different set-ups and with different software, and may not be able to plug in the latest spiffiest stuff, or might not be able to use it effectively even if they did plug it in. Please, let's not exclude such people..."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (16:29)", "body": "may not be able to plug in the latest spiffiest stuff, or might not be able to use it effectively even if they did plug it in. Please, let's not exclude such people... Seconded - my home account is run on an old ibm pc over a 14.4 k modem, I'm not familiar with NetMeeting, but it sounds like I would have a problem with it? I do have fast access at work, but that could lead to rapid unemployment"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (16:54)", "body": "HC. Would you like a shell account? It might make for a more pleasant experience than lynx (not that I don't like lynx, mind you)."}, {"response": 9, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:06)", "body": "Department of Idle Curiosity: What software do shell users here use - if not Lynx?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:08)", "body": "Yapp! That's what you use in a shell. It's much faster than the web based portion of yapp."}, {"response": 11, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:33)", "body": "Terry: Yapp! That's what you use in a shell. It's much faster than the web based portion of yapp. Now I am really confused - if this is the case, how would getting a shell account here make a difference to HC? If he gets one, he will still be using Lynx, will he not? (In 42:8 you said: HC. Would you like a shell account? It might make for a more pleasant experience than lynx (not that I don't like lynx, mind you). ) BTW, I do like Lynx, myself, and still prefer to use it if all I want is a quick search for text-based info."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:46)", "body": "No he wouldn't need lynx Joan. He would type 'bbs' at a shell prompt and then could breeze through the responses by typing r for read, n for next and r again for respond. He could also type b to browse. I'm entering this in the shell right now and I'm not in lynx."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:46)", "body": "] getting a shell account here make a difference to HC? If he gets one, he will still be using Lynx, will he not? You need not get on the web at all. It's like a mailing list."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:47)", "body": "Oops, sorry, Terry. Shoulda let you take that. We must have been answering that at exactly the same time."}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:50)", "body": "No sweat. Have you tried the shell Amy? Did you bail out from your Thanksgiving flood?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (18:56)", "body": "Terry, you have mentioned several different features that are only available via a shell account. Does typing \"BBS\" then put you into a text version of yapp?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (19:02)", "body": "] Thanksgiving flood? ___ Yes, pretty much Terry. Joan, if you are still checking back on this thread, tell me: is the dating game going to happen tonight, do you know? I am going out in 45 minutes but will arrange to log on anyway if the event is on. Amy"}, {"response": 18, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (19:06)", "body": "] Amy: s the dating game going to happen tonight, do you know? You know as much as I do about that. I assume that it is, and a, planning to show up as Colombo to look for clues. [grin}"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (19:17)", "body": "] planning to show up as Colombo ___ Ah. Hmm. Who should I be? Jim Lange?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (20:37)", "body": "typing bbs puts you in a text version of yapp that works wonderfully well."}, {"response": 21, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (06:59)", "body": "Re: Saskia's response #1. Will the Ball last the whole day so that folks from all over the world can partake How about a revolving ball like in those \" processional dinners \" where we move from one venue to the other?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (22:46)", "body": "December 16th! that's pretty soon! Let's have a ball at Pemberly, all day long!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (01:33)", "body": "RE: 42:1, 21, 22 - subject Jane Austen's Birthday... December 16th is day after tomorrow. How are we going to celebrate?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (01:41)", "body": "Perhaps Kathleen could decorate the Drawing Room for a party and we could have an all-day ball at Pemberley?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (02:22)", "body": "How about if everyone tries to log in to the Spring at a certain time? We could all post to the same topic created for the occasion! How about if we call log in at 8 pm CST or: 7 pm EST 8 pm CST 9 pm MST 10 pm PST"}, {"response": 26, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (02:49)", "body": "7 pm EST 8 pm CST 9 pm MST 10 pm PST Terry, is this not backwards? 7PM EST is not 10 PM PST - it's the other way around! 10 pm EST= 9 pm CST= 8 pm MST= 7 pm PST I think it's probable that this location would be less easily overwhelmed by masses of simultaneous visitors than Pemberly - a lot would be lost there to messages falling off the bottom of the list without being seen by all."}, {"response": 27, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (04:31)", "body": "Ooops, I time warped tonight. It would be interesting to put a load on the system and see how it worked and it might be a fun way to celebrate the birthday and leave a more lasting record."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (06:39)", "body": "] Terry, is this not backwards? 7PM EST is not 10 PM PST - it's the other way around! ___ I knew there was something endearing about Terry. He's dyslexic too!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (14:31)", "body": "Happy Birthday Jane Austen Since it's now 7:20 am on the 16th December here in Australia, let me wish our favourite author a wholehearted and congratulatory \"Happy Birthday\"."}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (15:13)", "body": "The corks are popping open down under . . ."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (15:40)", "body": "The corks are popping open down under . . . champagne at 7.30 on a Monday morning? I fear I lack the stamina... austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 67, "subject": "Nostromo", "response_count": 78, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (05:06)", "body": "Corruption, revolution and violence! But also passion, loyalty and solid love are the main ingredients in the adventurous film Nostromo.It is awfully expensive and built on, what some claims to be the best novel written in the English language during this century. This is how they promote the movie in one of our biggest morning papers! I came to think of Aunt Phillips and her exclaims of gambling debts, seductions and other evil things. In the trailers they show only one pic of Colin, in a hat and with a full beard, rather becoming I think. And the eyes are the same! more later..."}, {"response": 2, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (13:01)", "body": "Pray, Pray, Pretty please, may we have a full review... We'll have to and can't wait until January for it."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (15:25)", "body": "Did they dye his hair red? Gould is supposed to have red hair."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (16:51)", "body": "No, He's a bleached blonde. Wild! uh! FOF have a pic. http://www.iupui.edu/~rogersc/firth.html"}, {"response": 5, "author": "cat", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (18:51)", "body": "Yuk! A blonde?! I'm sorry but I cannot imagine CF as anything but dark haired Darcy."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (22:33)", "body": "\"I cannot imagine CF as anything but dark haired Darcy.\" I felt the same way cat, but I was pleasantly surprised, oh yes, pleasantly surprised..."}, {"response": 7, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (22:44)", "body": "] I felt the same way cat, but I was pleasantly surprised, oh yes, pleasantly surprised.. Pray tell, Cheryl, just how pleasant was this surprise? Did you incorporate into your fantasies/Christmas wishes? Do enlighten us!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (23:13)", "body": "\"I cannot imagine CF as anything but dark haired Darcy.\" the man himself pointed out that a smoulder on the dark haired is merely a sulk on a blond...."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (23:20)", "body": "\"Pray tell, Cheryl, just how pleasant was this surprise? Did you incorporate into your fantasies/Christmas wishes? Do enlighten us! \" Kathleen, modesty forbids an explicit explanation (yeah right! I hear you say) but suffice it to say that I am able to fantasize about a blond Colin with the same ease as I can about a dark Darcy. I see no conflict, no division of loyalties, only a more rewarding and diverse fantasy life. Yes, indeed."}, {"response": 10, "author": "carolee", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (23:43)", "body": "Donna Oh Yum! Thank you for the link to the photo. Carol"}, {"response": 11, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (09:32)", "body": "]\"suffice it to say that I am able to fantasize about a blond Colin with the same ease as I can about a dark Darcy.\" I suspected as much, Cheryl, as I have learned hold your creative abilities in high regard. Pleasant dreams, indeed!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (19:58)", "body": "You are all on the wrong tack..it's the eyes, not the color of his hair. Colin Firth appears to be one of those actors so in love with his job that he is willing to do whatever is required to be effective in his current role. Got to admire that."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (00:46)", "body": "DARCY IN THE JUNGLE... Now I have watched the first part and though he is not on stage so very much, I can assure you that you get enough to feed your imaginatory life. He is often rather silent, sort of staring far away... his clothes have been oatmeal shade and his hair and beard and moustache are not so very blond, I would say reddish brown (if such a colour is to be had).I agree with Cheryl that it does not ruin his appeal, merely alters it...He gets some thighexercise too, as he is on horseback quite a lot. No black clothes so far and no actual window sulking. But...! HE IS WET in one scene. It is night and pouring rain and his wife wakes up in their tent and finds his bed empty... Shall I continue? Well it starts out a bit sad as he is standing by the grave of his father..but they continue to the mine and ....Here? she asks and Yes! he answers...in his wet shirt!!! Then there are bribes and snakes and opression and poor people and wuthering heights (The Andes) as it is all taking place in a faked country in Latin America, and flowers and a wise old doctor."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (01:22)", "body": "Oh well, if he is WET count me in! Candace did you hear that? Colin Firth is WET in Nostromo!!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (01:31)", "body": "Not sure whether this is the place to put a newspaper article??? The Swedish paper called Aftonbladet= the evening leaf.Hasty translation: Colin Firth,36, made the ladies fall for him as Mr Darcy (They hit the head of the nail there did they not?)in P&P last Christmas. Now he is the cruel Charles Gould in the big Tv series Nostromo for six Fridays. (they portion him out so that we wont be overwhelmed eyh?) In private Colin is if possible even more gorgeous than on screen.Tall, slender, boyish, strikingly brigth and with a high factor of\"Comfort and well-being\". (Ooh, say no more...) We met him when the BBC brought the Nostromo stars to MIP-TV-fair in Cannes. Colin was besieged by female journalists. They wanted to know more about his love affair with Serena Scott Thomas who plays his wife Emilia Gould.(Now really Mr Firth, is this the truth? You seem almost to devoted to the parts you play. Can it be that your heart is easily touched?) - The film could not be made strictly from Joseph Conrad's book from 1904. It is considered the best novel written in English this century. But we are as faithful as we were able to, Colin says. The book is prophetic, it is about the world of today. The silver mine ruined my father's life. As his son I wish to revenge myself for his death. Charles starts as a humanist with high ideals, but becomes obsessed by the riches of the silver.The filming in Cartagena di Indias, the most dangerous part of the most dangerous country in the world, Colombia, was a warm business. - It was extremely hot and we were dressed in the tweed costumes of the time and the ladies wore corsettes. - We were guarded by the army, but still met with misfortune: one murder and one kidnapping, Colin Firth concludes. BBC has made a coproduction with 3 other noncommercial stations, WGBH in Boston, the Spanish TVE and RAI from Italy. 15.000 walkers-on and an international casting.... K.G.Bj\ufffdrkman"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (16:26)", "body": "A new film, a new amour, a little more dinero and \"Hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off to work we go!\""}, {"response": 17, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (18:21)", "body": "I never thought of Charles Gould as \"cruel\", He may be obsessive and out of touch with everything around him, but he isn't cruel."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:29)", "body": "I just thought I would light this topic back up in prepreation for the PBS broadcast of Nostromo. The broadcast date and time may differ from place to place, but it will be showing in most places on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday nights. Bon Apetit!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "summit", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (07:20)", "body": "Moi, I've had no trouble at all enjoying CF in NOSTROMO so far, possibly due to some marvelous screen-filling close-ups! Who was it of us, many threads ago, who knew how to get an image/voice off the VCR and onto our computers?? :-) Encore, anyone?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (10:16)", "body": "He isn't Darcy - but it is interesting seeing him in a completely different role! Two more nights....and the costuming is great!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (10:20)", "body": "Here!Here! **sigh**"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (11:35)", "body": "I like the beard."}, {"response": 23, "author": "jane", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (11:42)", "body": "Yes, Amy, I like the beard too---I think CF needs some facial hair (e.g., Darcy sideburns) to give his face some shape. I am still waiting for CF to take a dip in a tropical ponds, or the ocean----I kept thinking about it as I watched last night, and hoped he would do so (for Cheryl and Candace, of course). Water, water, everywhere, and not a drop to swim in. Jane Jane"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (12:21)", "body": "Jane, I have been contemplating the shape of CF's face for some time now, and I find that I have come to the same conclusion; much improved with facial hair to add dimension."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (12:22)", "body": "I know we're not supposed to talk about Nostromo uintil Wednesday, but I just have to say: Candace! Did you see? He was WET! And WET in a LOVE SCENE! I know that it sounds odd to say that when I see CF WET I think of Candace, but it is true nonetheless! ;-)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (13:06)", "body": "I loved the first night - and two more to go. Yes, Cheryl, wet and in a love scene fulfills my dreams of what a good show is all about!! Most of all, I again noticed his eyes. Did you see how he looked at his wife while all wet in the mine, and then later that Darcyish \"look of love\" as he looked at the first shipment of silver. In just those two looks you could see how Charles Gould's priorities had shifted from his wife to the lure of the silver. Amazing acting. I liked it very well indeed!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (17:08)", "body": "Inko, yes, those fine eyes!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "FYI - There's a long review of Nostromo and interview with Colin on the Friends of Firth site. It's from the Jan. 2 Orange County Register and really explains the motivation behind Charles Gould's character. Go to FoF, then click on Nostromo just above his picture as Gould. Worth a read."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (04:19)", "body": "Part Two of Nostromo was tonight, and I am soooo disappointed! There was talk of taking a \"bahth\" but alas, we were not privy to the \"bahth\" itself! :-( Of what were the writer and director thinking? Anyone who looks as good WET as CF does, should be shown WET as often as possible! And my disappointment was increased by the knowledge of Candace sitting at home, eyes lighting up at the word \"bahth\" only to have her hopes dashed! Poor Candace! It was cruel blow, indeed! ;-)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "Cheryl, I knew I was not the only viewer who perked up at Gould's mention of a bath! I practically jumped off the sofa---my husband just laughed. At least CF looked nice and clean in the following scene, so we know the Bath occurred, even if we were not privy to it. Jane"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (13:03)", "body": "Someone in Austen-L reported the following Colin Firth comments regarding to Nostromo and Jane Austen. It's from \"Firth class\" article in \" The Toronto Star\"'s TV guide. \"Somehow we made it\", report Firth. \"We didn't know what we were it for. And it will be very interesting to see if television viewers take to Conrad the way they take to Austen. I rather guess Austen is more their cup of tea\". (...) \"Jane Austen was not the high point of my acting career. It was a very nice production but what can you say about an author whose chief worry is how many servants her characters can afford? I would not like to spend all my time in period drama\". \"What Firth would like in the future is parts such as the ravaged Falklands Island veteran in the British TV movie \"Tumbledown\". What he would not like is a regular diet of heroes in period attire reaching for their snuff boxes.\" What do you all think of it ? To be honest I'm a little bit put off by his comments on Jane Austen. Zimei"}, {"response": 32, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (13:10)", "body": "One cannot expect much more from a man who does not read even P&P until he is so far along in life. JA is not about how many servants one can afford. She is about survival. But perhaps Darcy did not realize that his story was about survival - like playing monoply with little money and no property against one player who holds it all."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "He is probably sick of the association with P&P. Maybe he doesn't really mean it, Pollyanna/Jane hoped."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "So am I ,Zimei. He has not read any of her novels I think but -perhaps- P&P ( or did he stick to the manuscript? ) No. I cant think so ill of him. He must have collected all hints he could get on Darcy. But it appears he does not understand that women wanted a home, some clothes and their daily bread and to escape the fate of an unwelcome relative, living at the mercy of fathers or brothers. The number of servants, indeed!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "My thoughts exactly, Cheryl and Jane, about the bahth!! But he did look nice and clean afterwards. Zimei, I don't think he was disparaging JA in that article, because in the Orange County article he said \"So I developed a healthy respect for Jane Austen doing 'Pride and Prejudice', but I don't want her to represent England because it's not like that.\" I have to agree with him - England is not and never was like that. The late 1700s and early 1800s were actually much tougher and rougher for the majority of the population. As for not continually doing period costume drama - after playing Gould in tweeds in the heat of Cartegena, who can blame him?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "PaulaLovejoy", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (17:25)", "body": "I hope someone from the Austen Society responds directly to Colin for calling her \"an author whose chief worry is how many servants her characters can afford.\" Indeed he knows better! Firth is an unusually honest and intelligent actor, sometimes I think a little bit too frank -- he may indeed not want to do another period piece but I don't think he should share these feelings with his adoring fans, and after all, the role did make him a star."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (17:29)", "body": "Idea: A reprise of the Patty Duke Show with Albert Finney as Willam Shatner's English Cousin."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (18:50)", "body": "Amy: \"A reprise of the Patty Duke Show with Albert Finney as Willam Shatner's English Cousin.\" Oh Amy, you are wicked!! ;-)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (19:04)", "body": "Cheryl, come on over to the drawing room. You are the wicked one. I thought about declaiming whilst twisting one's tail today. A bright spot."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (19:07)", "body": "I don't think we should take Firth's remarks about Austen all that much to heart. It sounded like a throwaway comment to me, and we know from other interviews that he's read P&P and thinks it's a great novel. In this case I think he was just contrasting her view of the world--which she herself always said was limited to 3 or 4 families in a country village--with that of Conrad, who thought globally. And I can't think badly of him for not having read Austen until he had to--there are great authors I've ever read (Conrad, for one), and I have a B.A. in English."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (19:46)", "body": "I finally found the website and read the Orange County article. A curious report...We almost lost CF altogether because he didn't know how to say,\"I'm being strangled,\" in Spanish! (Wouldn't hasta luego suffice?) And what's the jibberish about putting your hands around your neck to experience strangling? Is that CF speaking or the reporter day dreaming? Additionally, why the metal band and not the American way by rope? And more importantly, where are the thighs of steel able to grasp meddlesome mare like denture fixative? Really, thrown by a horse? It's moot if CF's smoking as intensely as the reporter indicated. CF needs some fast lessons in both appropriate Austen reverence and taking better care of Mr. Darcy."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "Speaking of horses, why are the horses in Nostromo so short?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (05:53)", "body": "ROFLOL ..."}, {"response": 44, "author": "mpk", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (07:07)", "body": "Another quote that exonorates Colin from perceived disparaging JA remarks: \"'Darcy is very much a product of his time and his class...He's severely emotionally disabled because he's never had to fight for anything. As the richest man in England, he's never had any trouble appealing to women. A woman's survival at that time depended on marrying well'...[About the audience's nostalgic affection for JA's elegant world] 'there's a real ugly side that is overlooked...When we were filming P&P somebody said to me \"What a shame that we've lost all this graciousness\" and I thought, \"Well, yes, but we've lost the kind of slavery women were put into\". There was rampant social injustice in England then. Austen convinces us to despise Lydia Bennet fro choosing who she wants to marry and running away to have an adventure. Now we're expected to have Lydia's values. We marry who we damn well choose.'\" (from A&E Dec 1996--that wonderful cover picture) I've been recording Nostromo these past few nights, but I've caught some scenes with Colin...loved that mine scene. I absolutely love his beard!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "mpk", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (07:57)", "body": "Say, does Colin have chest hair in that scene, or is it wishful thinking on my part?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:08)", "body": "The mine scene when its been pooring down, with lovely making love scene (and for further comments I will refrain to the chat room). No, you're not fantasizing, it's there. Cannot believe I posted that!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (10:46)", "body": "Amy: \"Speaking of horses, why are the horses in Nostromo so short?\" I've been wondering the same thing! Tall, lanky Colin looks positively silly on that thing! His feet practically touch the ground! Johanne: \"Cannot believe I posted that!\" Good for you, Johanne! I'm proud to know you! Alas there was no wetness in part three tonight, except for the sweating up on the exectutioner's block! But memories of the mine scene will sustain me--as long as my tape holds out!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (15:27)", "body": "]loved that mine scene. I absolutely love his beard! I agree. The man is quite a turn on , (old slang for sexy) at times. Even just that intense, Darcyish look he had (right before pulling out the derringer and shooting the assistant prior to being taken to execution) was terrific. Sigh. His liaisons with Serena, Jennifer, and Meg can be taken a lot of ways, I know, but can you imagine how you'd respond if you were the actress opposite him in a film with love scenes?? Would be difficult to just walk away after those shoots and just have a cup of offee! And possibly he's still looking for the right woman to settle down with, so he's doing \"field research.\" Any volunteers? ;-) Just kidding."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (18:46)", "body": "For the past 3 nights Nostromo has been part of the electronic wallpaper ever present in our house but this film never captured my attention to the extent of P&P. As expected, I walked quite easily in and out and by the wall where it was playing. That never happened with P&P. However, I thought CF gave a tolerable performance, at least the role had dignity, but his Charles Gould lacked credibility and fire . The love scene in the mine was tepid, needed to be cranked p a bit. I resented my preoccupation with the temperature and hardness of the stone walls. I wanted to be carried away but don't think that's what the director had in mind...maybe he used this as a point of reference for Nostromo's passion. The non-CF scenes were much more compelling with the exception of the garroting. I must admit that one scene did take my breath away...CF kicking helplessly, futilely while the willing indigents are grasping, gleefully stripping him of his boots. I was sincerely r lieved when Gould was spared and at that point did care what happened to him."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (19:46)", "body": "Elaine, I agree about with you entirely about Gould. I am rather baffled as to what the dirctor did have in mind, as I have tried to say with my usual flippancy on Laura's Thread.I found the whole thing very patchy. BUT Albert Finney, all the Italians were superb. So was Brian Dennehy."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (00:35)", "body": "I found \"Nostromo\" fascinating, but maybe that's because I'm 4/5ths through the book right now. I was hoping to finish it before last night, but have another 100 pages to go. Actually, the whole production stayed very close to the novel. In the beginning of the book, Gould meets Emilia in Italy and falls madly in love. That love lasts till he gets the mine going again, when his idealistic love of what the silver can do for the country takes over. The Gould character is meant to be inscrutable and very cold by the end of the book. Essentially, he is ruined by the silver and I think CF shows us that very well. Albert Finney is superb as the cynical doctor, as are Amendola as Nostromo and the actor who played Don Jose Avellanos (what a t rrific face he had!) It's a difficult story to tell, but I think they did as good a job as possible and the casting was really great. I read somewhere that they used local horses so as to make it look right. I guess the local horses are small because, I agree, CF does look silly with his legs hanging down like that. On the other hand, Conrad says that Gould is very tall, so it does give the feel of a tall Englishman out of place in a country like Costaguana. France, I don't think he had any romance with Serena Scott-Thomas. This was the production where he met his Italian girlfriend - Livia Gugioli who was listed as the Producer's assistant. By the way, I really liked Serena in the role of Emilia. She looked out-of-place enough--as an Englishwoman in South America--but showed all the sympathy and feeling of humanity in her eyes and face that her character had in the book. The silver doesn't contaminate her, it makes her a victim."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:58)", "body": "France, if CF is still looking for the right woman to settle down with, I hope she's thinking prenuptial contract. He should be required to wear \"period\" clothing and facial/chest hair a minimum of one day a week. Cheryl, perhaps it would have looked more humane if Colin had carried the horse."}, {"response": 53, "author": "MSK", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (19:31)", "body": "I enjoyed Nostromo. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to read the book first. I think that would've helped because it was at times a bit confusing or not tied together too well. CF I think played his role very well and yes, I agree he looks great with the beard. However,the actor who played Nostromo was obviously the star and played the part wonderfully. Is anyone in this group from Latin America? If so, maybe you could answer a question for me. Did the actor who played General Sotillo (he's the one who wants the silver so bad and then his buddy puts a sword through him) act in a rather popular telenovela either from Mexico or Argentina? Mary"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:46)", "body": "Elaine--not to mention a clause which states he must appear wet in all movies. Mary, I know I've seen that actor (Sotillo) somewhere before. I think he played the bad guy in a Hollywood movie a while back."}, {"response": 55, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:30)", "body": "Inko, thank you for your input: \"I found \"Nostromo\" fascinating, but maybe that's because I'm 4/5ths through the book right now. I was hoping to finish it before last night, but have another 100 pages to go. Actually, the whole production stayed very close to the novel.\" I have read and admired the depth of thought Conrad put into LORD JIM, HEART OF DARKNESS, \"The Secret Sharer,\" etc., and though NOSTROMO is still to be read, I recognize the Conrad touch- one or more male characters in an exotic setting, searching for something to them most valued, whether wealth, power, love, willpower, etc.- and then facing horrifically difficult circumstances that test their moral fiber. A Conrad hero is not a perfect man, but a man with intelligence, complexity, and eventually the c urage to face his demons/weaknesses and make amends for them. At times there is more than one man in the story being \"tested\" by fate; often death and some sort of betrayal dog the life of the man. My personal favorite is still LORD JIM, a serious book and also a fine movie with Peter O'Toole, James Mason, Eli Wallach, Curt Jergens, etc. I agree, despite my \"crush\" on CF as Darcy and my enjoyment of \"all things wise and Austen,\" that CF deserves the stretch that other authors & roles can give him as an actor. (ex., A MONTH IN THE COUNTRY)"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:55)", "body": "I've seen the actor who played Sotillo in the movie \"A Clear and Present Danger\" a Tom Clancy novel with Harrison Ford. He played the Cuban mastermind/assisin working for the South American druglords."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "Finally finished the book of Nostromo. You're right, Cecily, Conrad does like to test all his men and put his women up on a pedestal. In this story, however, Gould never faces his demon or makes amends for them - he goes on riding roughshod over all those loyal to him (including Nostromo) in order to keep his precious mine working and the new country intact. In some ways that might be thought a noble idea, but I find it very soulless. The only difference with the book at the end of the series was a line inserted for Emilia, when she says to Giselle \"but when he left you for treasure, you would have made a life for yourself because you never loved him as much as you love yourself\". I really like that line because it shows how much Emilia has suffered over the years. By the way, in the book the last two hours of the series actually take place over many years - ten to twenty at least, but like the series, the end of the book is a much q icker read than the early part. That's my literature lesson for today!!:-)"}, {"response": 58, "author": "MSK", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (19:54)", "body": "Cheryl, Thank you. Clear and Present Danger is probably where I saw that actor before. Mary"}, {"response": 59, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (14:18)", "body": "Re: article Zimei discussed - I have an article in the A&E monthly where Colin says, \"It's nice to have recognition, but at the same time, I have to resist being associated with P&P forever\" (not a chance!) then he goes on to say \"There are tremendous stories written around that period in history; it would be silly to say they're out of bounds.\" He continues to say that he is more worried about getting into a trap of being so worried that he would never do it again...than doing another part like it again I don't think he understands that not only did we love him as Darcy....the guy who played Darcy ain't so bad either! In other words....he brought the life to Darcy...Darcy didn't bring the life of the part to him...does that make sense?"}, {"response": 60, "author": "mpk", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (00:42)", "body": "I have to agree with you there, Linda...I had not read JA nor was acquainted with Colin Firth until I saw P&P2 on A&E in January of last year. Inexplicably, I was mesmerized by the whole event. It was only until we got a new computer with Internet capability (I was seduced by the possibility of finding anything and everything on the Net) that I was spurred on to find anything with Colin Firth and was very exited to find this connection to P&P2! Yes, I became and am a hopeless addict to P&P2 and an ardent admirer of Colin Firth. During the Christmas break, I finally read *the* P&P and just loved it. I tend to think in Austenspeak now and was amazed to find how faithful the A&E/BBC production was to the book (and consequently the dialogue). Perhaps a specific thread of the book and the production???? I read the book book, though, with the actors reading the lines!!! I am an avowed JA fan and will, as a New Year's resolution, read the rest of JA's books. I just read \"Pemberley\" but was disappointed by Elizabeth and Darcy's characterizations of distrust of each other. Dutifully, though, I am now reading the next sequel, \"An Unequal Marriage\". I am introducing P&P to my young daughters through the video production. I explain to them the social mores of the time and what was expected of women at that time so that they get somewhat of a picture of what's going on...They probably wonder why I drop such comments such as \"isnt he just gorgeous\" when Darcy/Colin is on the screen. My oldest, though, understands my \"addiction\", just as I completely understand some of her \"addictions\". Yikes! I'm getting way off base with all of this prattle! Thank you so much sisters (and brothers out there) for keeping this site going!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (12:29)", "body": "Apparently, CF wants to be remembered for his versatility and not his magnetism. I imagine he feel more comfortable in this arena. I personally would like to see him uncomfortable just one more time."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (15:36)", "body": "Elaine: I personally would like to see him uncomfortable just one more time. Yes, as would I, in fact the more uncomfortable, clothing-wise, the better...(oups! better head on over to the Drooling Topic!)"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (09:43)", "body": "Ah! To be CF's agent for one day. I could set him up with scripts for the next five years. It seems unconscionable that we the customers have no say in these matters, especially when Colin doesn't seem to be playing with a full deck."}, {"response": 64, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (18:12)", "body": "Cheer up, ladies. Think of A Thousand Acres coming this spring. Colin's character is a sex magnet to all the women around him."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (18:56)", "body": "Anne3: Cheer up, ladies. Think of A Thousand Acres coming this spring. Colin's character is a sex magnet to all the women around him. COOL!"}, {"response": 66, "author": "summit", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (20:23)", "body": "Or, put another way, it'll be PARIS WHEN IT SIZZLES"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (20:41)", "body": "]COOL! Or DROOL! maybe? ;-)"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Becks", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (22:23)", "body": "If I was his agent...........hmmmmmmm...... Maybe lots of films with WET SCENES!!!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (05:15)", "body": "]Maybe lots of films with WET SCENES!!! whatdya reckon Cheryl?"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (09:13)", "body": "If Colin's character in A Thousand Acres replicates the character Jesse in the book, he'll be a sex magnate but not an admirable one...no romance or higher ideals, just an ordinary, immature man. Jesse is no Darcy. WET SCENES will, of course, be helpful but true drool requires an appropriate mental setting. In the book this character made my skin crawl, well-intentioned but not capable of decisive action. My guess is that CF will play him as rather sleezy and not gi e it much of a romantic spin. Seriously, someone needs to get to CF and help him choose some wimmin's stuff."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (11:45)", "body": "Rebecca: Maybe lots of films with WET SCENES!!! Anna: whatdya reckon Cheryl? I \"reckon\" I will like that very much indeed! (as will Candace--I believe I may vouch for her on this point!)"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (11:52)", "body": "Elaine, I think we have to face up to the fact that Colin is never going to play Darcy again. So, we dedicated droolers have got to work out a game plan for watching his other movies. Imagination is the key here. What you've got to do is to take the raw material his performance offers [I need hardly say, the rawer the better ;-)] and filter it through the old mental process. I've tried this with a few of his old movies and, while it takes some getting used to, it does work. ------------------------------------ BTW, I don't think that Jess is sleazy or lacking in higher ideals. Quite the opposite, really . . . he's so caught up in his theories and principles that he doesn't know how to do real life."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (08:45)", "body": "Anne3, I agree that Jess is a dreamer and not a \"doer\". I just think there will be some gray areas in the movie where Firth will choose to give him a sleazy turn. I don't think Firth will romanticize him."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (01:07)", "body": "Regarding the horses in Nostromo, I think they're either Paso Fino's or Andulusians (not sure of that spelling). These are smaller horses with an allegedly unbelievably smooth gait. It's supposed to be like sitting in your rocking chair. The actors did look pretty comfortable, even though they appeared to be riding Shetland ponies!"}, {"response": 75, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (13:29)", "body": "While watching Nostromo with my husband, he made the comment that CF with a beard has a striking resemblance to the Crane brothers on \"Frazer\". We then came up with a hysterical plot for the TV show in which CF does a guest appearance as their very snoody English cousin. What say you?"}, {"response": 76, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "Re: Frazer role Why not a soccer player in shorts, Candace?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (13:57)", "body": "LOL, Donna -- Soccer player in shorts -- In soccer, when the game is won, do they do as in football and dump the ice chest on someone? If so, this would work quite well -- CF in shorts AND wet!!"}, {"response": 78, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (15:18)", "body": "I actually realized while watching CF in Nostromo that, with the facial hair and the new coloring, he looked just like an ex-boyfriend. Now is THAT why I've been drooling overtime? Can't be all of it, though, 'cause I've loved him in every role. Aren't the Crane brothers a little too nancy for the likes of our masculine CF? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 68, "subject": "Just a thought", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "mich", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (11:53)", "body": "I agree, if your away for more than a day it's easy to get lost."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (15:26)", "body": "You can always use the \"Redisplay\" function at the bottom to view the last few old messages."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (16:09)", "body": "Well Ann I did not know about that thank you. I was glad to see Mrs.Collins/you speak up. Well done Ann."}, {"response": 4, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (20:37)", "body": "Re: 75:2 - Redisplay would be easier to use if we were to adopt the habit of referring to the number of the response we are reacting to (if not actually quoting it in our own response) by using the topic number and the response number separated by a colon. In that manner it is also possible to refer to happenings in other topics."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (21:26)", "body": "] topic number and the response number separated by a colon. __ Chapter and verse."}, {"response": 6, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (02:40)", "body": "] Chapter and verse. Well, of course! :-)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (05:23)", "body": "Re75:5 Todays sermon will be about the the tip of his nose... (Seems useful though, joan, too)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (05:25)", "body": "Re75:5 Todays sermon will be about the the tip of his nose... (Seems useful though, joan, too) austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 7, "subject": "Best of chat", "response_count": 241, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (01:02)", "body": "Joan has been teasing. Last night (Fri) she posed as someone else for two hours or longer. Earlier in the week she teased the whole gang of us for over a day about an online romance involving one of our number."}, {"response": 2, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (01:33)", "body": "Since my reputation for both silliness and seriousness is at stake here, I would like to make one tiny clarification. My most recent escapade was indeed intentional silliness (TGIF!), however I had no intent to tease in the first episode. An innocent comment (which in my mind was related to the discussion at hand) regarding something that was told to me in private e-mail became the object of the most intense curiosity as to who were the parties invovled. Not wishing to make public that which was told to me in private without the permission of the person who told me, I declared myself unwilling to name names without first asking permission. In this matter I had no intention to tease. I cannot blame myself for having done thus much. There is but one part of my conduct in this matter on which I do not reflect with seriousness, and that is that once Matthew saved my hide by agreeing to have his story told, I do admit to doing so in a less than perfectly serious manner. .utexas.edu/~churchyh/smiley-for-amy.gif\" ALT=\":-)\"> Joan, too"}, {"response": 3, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (01:34)", "body": "Since my reputation for both silliness and seriousness is at stake here, I would like to make one tiny clarification. My most recent escapade was indeed intentional silliness (TGIF!), however I had no intent to tease in the first episode. An innocent comment (which in my mind was related to the discussion at hand) regarding something that was told to me in private e-mail became the object of the most intense curiosity as to who were the parties invovled. Not wishing to make public that which was told to me in private without the permission of the person who told me, I declared myself unwilling to name names without first asking permission. In this matter I had no intention to tease. I cannot blame myself for having done thus much. There is but one part of my conduct in this matter on which I do not reflect with seriousness, and that is that once Matthew saved my hide by agreeing to have his story told, I do admit to doing so in a less than perfectly serious manner. .utexas.edu/~churchyh/smiley-for-amy.gif\" ALT=\":-)\"> Joan, too"}, {"response": 4, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (01:50)", "body": "Now I promise that I only clicked the button once, but this got posted twice!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (08:20)", "body": "New Aussie slang alert: Larrikan, meaning mischievious. Usage: It has become common intellence to those under the auspices of the shades of Pemberley that, whilst ensconced in the Drawing Room of that noble home, Ian has proved himself to be very larrikan indeed. At times his closest friends have been concerned lest his unguarded behaviour carry him into areas which may be termed daggy, but his good breeding, manners and fear of censure have saved him from such an infamous fate."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (08:47)", "body": "Oh, I can see this topic will get to be a gossip column"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (10:45)", "body": "I like the chat site y'all use. I wonder if we can get that software installed on one of our Spring servers?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (16:16)", "body": "\"Oh, I can see this topic will get to be a gossip column \" Oh, and had you intended it otherwise? >"}, {"response": 9, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (16:20)", "body": "(Now why didn't HC's question mark display here???)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (17:36)", "body": "\"Oh, I can see this topic will get to be a gossip column \" Oh, and had you intended it otherwise? ____________ You're on to me, Joan."}, {"response": 11, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (18:32)", "body": "The smiley didn't work because of an out of date filename, as well as an involuntary line-break being inserted into the middle of the URL. Use these:"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (18:46)", "body": "Amy, that smiley is obscene...I prefer the butterfly...; ) - K"}, {"response": 13, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (20:57)", "body": "Thank you, Henry! What butterfly?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (21:19)", "body": "The one at the top of the page, Joan! ;-) - K"}, {"response": 15, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (21:37)", "body": "I just redisplayed from the beginning of the topic and there's no butterfly at the top of my page!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "pemberley", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (21:51)", "body": "Joan, I saw all the images every one of you is talking about."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Nov 23, 1996 (23:01)", "body": "Amy, I love your chatty, grinning, gossiping yellow smiley!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (11:04)", "body": "Amy...the Royal We (RW) or MMI (ME, Myself, and I) will have to reveal themselves to you on their own accord...;) As far as the cover names...generally amusing, but shouldn't be overused, if only for their own sakes... - K"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (13:16)", "body": "Candace, Donna and Anne were among the first to hear about the new domain austen.com today in chat. A historic event, the granting of this domain name to the Spring!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (17:10)", "body": "] the granting of this domain name to the Spring! I am all astonishment! I cannot believe that it was not already taken. And to receive it so quickly. Pray tell how long did the process take?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (19:14)", "body": "Terry, I am still reeling with your news and from the possibilities. My mail to you keeps bouncing today, though. Maybe I will give you a call tomorrow. Thanks again."}, {"response": 22, "author": "kathleen", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (19:19)", "body": "Amy, your message (above) posted whilst I was perusing all new messages. But the time on my watch was 35 minutes later that the time listed for your message. Lag time or what?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "kathleen", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (19:21)", "body": "I may have answered my own question -- clocks in my house evidently out of synch w/ Spring clocks! My message also has a time about 35 - 40 minutes off."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (20:21)", "body": "Good News! I figured out why the chat room was only displaying 10 messages at time. You can now set it to display up to 50 messages."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (20:42)", "body": "Thanks, Kaff. I tried it. Especially nice to be able to see what has been going on when you first arrive. Or what has happened while you have gone for coffee."}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (22:31)", "body": "I was wondering why it would only display 10 msgs at a crack. What software are you using for chat. Has anyone heard of http://www.ichat.com ? This is the chat system I'm looking at for the Spring."}, {"response": 27, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (00:35)", "body": "The one in the Pemberley room is very nice - the one useful feature that it is lacking is the abilitly to save an entire chat so that it can be archived or distributed as \"minutes\" of informal meetings or looked at again if someone gives you useful \"how to\"advice."}, {"response": 28, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (04:48)", "body": "But then Joan it maybe just as well the page can't be archived considering some of the dialogue that's occurred. And I don't mean just the \"scandalous\" talk but some of the more genuine \"deep and meaningful (I know it sounds really daggy but it was an '80's thing to do)\" times that have also been spent there. Still it would have been nice for when Bernie and I had that Cricket match on the lawn outside the Drawing Room window."}, {"response": 29, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (14:59)", "body": "I have now completed images for Kali and Tay, as promised. See if you could have guessed which was for which, even if I hadn't included the names on the images... ;-) Kali, the \"Durga\" didn't really fit in, so I left it out..."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (16:40)", "body": "You guys have completely lost it. I love it. H, put up my dino, too."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (17:05)", "body": "But HC, what about me? You should have heard the wonderful part I gave you in our P&P sequel! But I believe I had the most fun part! (thank you, Candace!) ;-P"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (17:59)", "body": "Oh, HC! It's absolutely beautiful! Certainly puts Medusa and Echidna to shame...how can I ever repay you? - BHGKD PS - I see you spelled the full version correctly in spite of my terrible spelling the other day... ;)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (18:14)", "body": "PPS - A women's studies course could have a field day analyzing and comparing the above images. BTW, HC, just what do you mean by the \"see if you could have guessed which was for which...\" part? ;) - K"}, {"response": 34, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (22:00)", "body": "] But then Joan it maybe just as well the page can't be archived considering some of the dialogue that's occurred. But Ian, saving a chat is entirely optional - they aren't automatically saved on any chat software I have seen - but a particular session worthy of archiving for some reason can be saved if desired. ] ...some of the more genuine \"deep and meaningful times that have also been spent there. It would be well for anyone considering this kind of conversation to keep in mind the pulic nature of such a room and the possibility of being overheard by random arrivees even after the participants have"}, {"response": 35, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (22:53)", "body": "I've saved a log of the Saturday night discussion -- it had some cute moments, and no \"deep\" secrets were revealed... Bear in mind that this is a raw undeited log, so there are typos, some threads are hard to follow, etc. Saturday night chat log"}, {"response": 36, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (22:54)", "body": "I've saved a log of the Saturday night discussion -- it had some cute moments, and no \"deep\" secrets were revealed... Bear in mind that this is a raw undeited log, so there are typos, some threads are hard to follow, etc. Saturday night chat log"}, {"response": 37, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (02:55)", "body": "But Henri, pray tell, how did you do that? How did you save the entire thing? I could do that in my text-based terminal app. (Microphone) but not in my browser."}, {"response": 38, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (02:56)", "body": "And also, how did you turn it all rightside-up?"}, {"response": 39, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (09:02)", "body": "Turning it \"rightside up\" is utterly trivial with an AWK program (\"awk\" is a powerful little text-manipulation program originally written under Unix, but which now runs on a lot of platforms...) BEGIN{i=1} /^ From: /{arr[++i]=($0 \"\\n\");next} {arr[i]=(arr[i] $0 \"\\n\")} END{for (x=i;x>=1;--x) {printf \"%s\", arr[x]}} (The exact \"From:\" pattern to use would depend on exactly how your browser saves the chat pages as text....)"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (09:11)", "body": "H, stop your showing off. Mom's gonna have to teach you a lesson."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Tay", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (12:32)", "body": "Mysterious HC sir, Thank you ever so much for that picture! I'm sorry I didn't reply earlier: I've sort of been lagging begind in reading here. It's wonderful! And yes, my name is spelled perfectly. How did you find out?! Indeed, my respect is ever growing!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (17:06)", "body": "Amy, I think you're a little confused -- the dinosaur image is meant to encourage you, when depressed, in your dealings with other people , not with myself... ;-)"}, {"response": 43, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Nov 26, 1996 (23:57)", "body": "AWK! HC, you said the \"U\" word. But you did not say how you contrived to capture the whole session..."}, {"response": 44, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (00:00)", "body": "(((or did you and I did not perceive it?)))"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (00:38)", "body": "Were I using Telix, ProComm, SmartCom or something like that to read chat, I'd probably just save a log of everything that danced across the screen. Amy"}, {"response": 46, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (04:15)", "body": "Yes, in that kind of software, I could easily do it, too. As it happens, he says that he just collected screen dumps. That was a lot of dumping!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (04:26)", "body": "Well, I just press a special key to do the dump, and all the dumps go into a common dump file, and then I use a text-editor search-and-replace to get rid of the top-of-screen junk, then I use AWK to invert the file. It's not really that much work if you're a Power Text-manipulator ;-) (I automate a lot of stuff in the Jane Austen web pages with AWK scripts.)"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (09:24)", "body": "Darcy imposters have been showing up in the Drawing Room. Someone who witnessed the Dating Game Thanksgiving Night, pray write and tell of the proceedings."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (09:42)", "body": "\"And any other accounts from players or audience members, please. No log? \" Amy - (I moved this from the thread on setting up the new site) First, I don't consider myself qualified to give a complete description of \"The Dating Game\", as I had no clue as to the true identities of the various Mr. Darcy's - I rather suspected that Ian was one, but was mistaken. I jumped in as Jane Bingley and had a wonderful time trying to view in the best possible light that there could be three people claiming to be Mr. Darcy. As to the log... The script creates a separate file for each post. It does seem to me that I could modify it so that it also appends that post to a log file as well. (Aside to The Mysterious H.C. - you obviously know UNIX inside and out - how are you at CGI scripting? I could use some advice on this.)"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (10:04)", "body": "HC, mysteriously, claims not to know CGI, just Perl. (H, Perl is the hard part.) Kaff you don't save all those do you? As individual files? My god, there must be hundreds of thousands of them. I might be able to help you with the append to log procedure. I do that with data written from my survey forms to an ascii data file on the bluemarble server. Data from each form is added to the file as a new record. I download it occasionally to clean it up and put in the database, then into SPSS. The I zero out the data file and begin again. I will show you that script and we can figure it out together. Amy"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (10:22)", "body": "\"Kaff you don't save all those do you? As individual files? My god, there must be hundreds of thousands of them. \" No! The script automatically deletes the 51st file, each time a new post is added - so there are only 50 of them at a time. However, the file names are numeric and we're up to 18,398!! \"I might be able to help you with the append to log procedure.\" Wonderful! I was thinking that I don't want a log that goes on forever, and that the best way to do it might be to have it create a file based on the date (ie 113096.log) so that each day is a separate log."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (13:06)", "body": "You know, ladies, I am not sure that I want some of the things that I have said in the chat room captured for posterity. Please allay my fears concerning this..."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (13:59)", "body": "Cheryl - That thought had occurred to me as well. We often get quite silly in there, or say things that might not play well later. People would not feel as free if they new that something they said might sneak up later and bite them in the... Perhaps we should consider only logging special sessions, such as the other night's \"Dating Game\". (This, of course, dependant on my abilities to create such an option!)"}, {"response": 54, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (14:35)", "body": "Yes - the ideal way would be to have the option of beginning a log as needed for a particular purpose, and ending it, as well, when the particular purpose was done. I suppose it would also be \"friendly\" if there were some way to signal to those who drop in on an activity that is being logged that logging is happening. On the other hand, on FirstClass BBSes and AOL and other places that have live chat capability, any person can save any"}, {"response": 55, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (14:44)", "body": "DANG!!! I forgot to type that offline, and got chopped off again! WISH I knew what causes that! ...any person can save any part of any chat that they participate in without any caveat given. I guess that in reality there is no expectation of any part of any chat realy being private and any postings that one would not want to find saved by someone would be better off sent via e-mail (unless the software supports a \"private chat\" and that is being used)."}, {"response": 56, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (14:59)", "body": "LOGS NOW AVAILABLE: Here's the logs of the Darcy impersonations (I did edit them down slightly, eliminating some chat on irrelevant topics in the pre- and post-Darcy-impersonation phases): Wednesday night impersonation session, and some discussions about it on Wednesday and Thursday When the first Darcy impersonator showed up, I suspected it might be Ian (since Ian had done a not entirely satisfactory impersonation of Col. Fitzwilliam before), so I tried to shake him by adopting a belligerent proletarian persona, and whaen that didn't work, I went over to impersonating Darcy myself, and was soon joined by a third impersonator.... I actually made one big mistake here, issuing under the name of \"The Mysterious H.C.\" something I intended to come from my Darcy persona, but no-one seemed to pick up on it! Thursday night chat log -- the actual \"Dating Game\". We were a little disorganized in the absence of Amy, but eventually Rebecca assumed the postion of \"bachelorette\"/judge."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (09:58)", "body": "The Dating Game chat log was most entertaining. Thanks, HC for going to the trouble to make it available. My compliments to all the players, especially those who assumed two roles. Amy"}, {"response": 58, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (10:03)", "body": "What's the dating game chat?"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (10:29)", "body": "] What's the dating game chat? ______ See HC's links at response #56"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (11:41)", "body": "The reasons why I picked \"The Real Fitzwilliam Darcy\"? --he was the only imposter who stayed to fight for my affections --gave good explanation about escaping his engagement from Anne --got his mother's maiden name right --liked being away from the onlookers of Meryton when courting Lizzie The other imposters did I fine job as well, or else I would have had a hard time picking one if the others didn't default."}, {"response": 61, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (12:22)", "body": "A shameful confession: I myself posed the \"maiden name\" question (which I then answered in my \"Real\" persona...) -- but I did in part just to get things going, since the others hadn't yet started posing questions (we were still getting organized). But it was a fair question -- after all, how can Darcy expect to get a credit card if he doesn't know his mother's maiden name ;-) Rebecca: You were'nt influenced by the endearments that Darcy #1's says \"he\" was whispering in your ear?"}, {"response": 62, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (12:24)", "body": "A shameful confession: I myself posed the \"maiden name\" question (which I then answered in my \"Real\" persona...) -- but I did it in part just to get things going, since the others hadn't yet started posing questions (we were still getting organized). But it was a fair question -- after all, how can Darcy expect to get a credit card if he doesn't know his mother's maiden name ;-) Rebecca: You weren't influenced by the endearments that Darcy #1 says \"he\" was whispering in your ear?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (23:08)", "body": "BTW, folks, re: the wednesday log, wherein I am accused of transparently impersonating the \"CHimney Sweep\" and the \"Turkey,\" I can assure you I had absolutely NOTHING to do with what I am accused. Truth is, I'm not clever enough to even be \"transparent\"! Sorry i missed all of the fun, K PS - Perky? ME?!!! Amy, I almost killed a woman for accusimg me of that much! ;)"}, {"response": 64, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (03:40)", "body": "G'day, Well I see my daggy reputation proceeds me. However I have not participated in any recent \"dating games\" or pseudonym role playings, much to my chagrin or perhaps your peace of collective minds. Nup I've been a boring old couch potato busy playing sport, attending meetings, visiting friends and family and driving all over the countryside taking photographs."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Bells", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (05:51)", "body": "Oh, but I didn't i see you swigging a Chardonnay bottle as you ambled along?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (14:07)", "body": "Oh, by the way, I meant to post these before -- Kali, here are two, umm, \"interesting\" links I found while net-searching for the word \"Kali\", when trying to find an appropriate picture of the deity in question... Advisory warning -- these links are \"descriptive\" (though not really graphic or outright objectionable). http://www.io.com/~altair/ktb.htm This is one way to break a man to your will, I guess... http://www.hubcom.com/magee/tantra/kali3.htm This explains the \"bloodthirsty\" part in more detail than you may want know -- scroll down past the pretty mandalas at the beginning..."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Becks", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (18:24)", "body": "Actually, the sweet nothings turned me off. It was like \"phone sex\" which is very un-Darcy like."}, {"response": 68, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (20:46)", "body": "[Whispers conspiratorially:] \"Pssst -- Kali is an ailurogamist!\""}, {"response": 69, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (20:46)", "body": ""}, {"response": 70, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (21:18)", "body": "Gee, Henry...do those things work? And how come all those incarnations of the goddess come with multiple glands? Thanks, buddy...I'll remember you in my will - if I decide not to leave everything to my cat! ;) - TBHGK-D"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (13:19)", "body": "Rebecca, did you forget we were role playing? - standing in a crowded drawing room, Darcy draws his wife aside and whispers a quick message. I can't deny your feelings, but I'm appalled by you implications."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (15:07)", "body": "An ailurogamist! Is Kali really married to a cat? (I needed to pull out my Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon for that one!)"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (15:38)", "body": "Ann and Henry - Did you guys know that Malcolm X survived prison with a Greek lexicon? Alex Haley says that he would go off about roots and meanings randomly during their interviews...Wait - maybe it was a Latin dictionary? Oh, never mind... - K PS - HC, I'll get you for that ailurogamy stuff...mark my words! And when you're least expecting it, too! ;)"}, {"response": 74, "author": "geekman", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (06:32)", "body": "Re: Response #65 Bells I did enjoy those glasses of chardonnay. How about I bring a bottle of the Hunter's Best and you a Mudgee's Best and we'll toast each other and anyone else next time we visit! Ahhh, now there's an idea for that little Aussie get together. :)"}, {"response": 75, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (20:43)", "body": "From: Kali at 12/4/96 2:30 AM Yes...hey Joan...were you the Night Owl who came in here threatening to eat Candace and I? From: Cheryl at 12/4/96 2:31 AM Hello Joan! Becks, good luck with the sleepover-I hope to meet your converts here someday! From: Rebecca at 12/4/96 2:32 AM For sure--but I know of only one who has a computer. From: Joan at 12/4/96 2:33 AM Eat you??? You are kidding, aren't you? My brain is mush - am doing beta testing for a developer of adaptive software for the disabled, and he sent me a huge communique between him and his Mac programmer and wants feedback??? I can't even understand half of it. So I am giving up till after I get some sleep! From: Kali at 12/4/96 2:34 AM I'm not kidding...came in with this really big font, talking about trolls and bridges and then threatened to eat us...so I told him/her to eat me...then they left...;) From: Rebecca at 12/4/96 2:34 AM Good. You can stay up with us then... From: Rebecca at 12/4/96 2:36 AM You kidding about the troll and bridges, right K? Who is this loser! From: Joan at 12/4/96 2:36 AM \"I'm not kidding...\" etc... ROTFLOL!!! Thanks I needed that. Guess you were not to his/her/its taste after all? From: Rebecca at 12/4/96 2:36 AM Eat you? But you're still here... From: Cheryl at 12/4/96 2:37 AM So when were you threatened, Kal? From: Joan at 12/4/96 2:38 AM I am still laughing about a troll with a really big font.... From: Kali at 12/4/96 2:39 AM Glad you guys liked that...I have no clue who it was, unless it was you, RW! From: Cheryl at 12/4/96 2:39 AM Kali the Ballbreaker strikes terror into the hearts of all would-be ravenous creatures! when confronted by her mighty chutzpah, they slither and slink away! From: Kali at 12/4/96 2:40 AM Oh yes, c'est moi! From: Joan at 12/4/96 2:40 AM \"unless it was you, RW! \" No, RW only comes out on weekends. From: Joan at 12/4/96 2:42 AM You will have to tell that in Best of Chat. From: Kali at 12/4/96 2:42 AM RW is a lot of fun...you should bring them out more often...not that we don't love Joan, but...;) From: Kali at 12/4/96 2:42 AM Will you post that, Joan? From: Joan at 12/4/96 2:43 AM RW keeps Joan up too late for school nights. OK I capied what you said about it. Wish I could yell AWK at it like HC and have it instantly turn upside down."}, {"response": 76, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (16:27)", "body": "Kali, I de-lamified the ``ailurogamy'' image -- it now uses good modern Greek instead of bad medieval Greek; I looked it up in a dictionary, and it truns out that compound adjective-nouns such as DIGAMOS (``bigamist'') do not take eta or alpha in the feminine. So enjoy... ;-)"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (18:51)", "body": "Okay, NOW I'm going to have to kill you..."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (19:02)", "body": "Kali, I'll hold him down. Then you kick him."}, {"response": 79, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (20:05)", "body": "Oh oh, cher Henri - you are dead meat! (How would you say that in French?)"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (23:02)", "body": "Young man! stop being rude to my dear niece, this instant!"}, {"response": 81, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (00:42)", "body": "Thank you ladies...is he bleeding yet?"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (06:40)", "body": ""}, {"response": 83, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (09:24)", "body": "Good grief, Amy, I think you killed him! (p.s. When do you sleep? It appears that you only had a few hours after I saw you at Pemberley.)"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (10:59)", "body": "] When do you sleep? ___ I am polyphasic"}, {"response": 85, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (11:10)", "body": "Joan too : le r\ufffdduire en bouillie, en faire de la chair \ufffd p\ufffdt\ufffd to reduce him to a stew; to change in sausagemeat"}, {"response": 86, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (13:28)", "body": "Gee, thanks Johanne, Amy. I have a revelation ablout Amy's love life too: P.S. Kali -- did you hear about the vicious poetic gossip spread about you in Chat yesterday evening? (Not by me, I swear!)"}, {"response": 87, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (15:49)", "body": "HC: I'm watching you...."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (17:15)", "body": "Nice plasma, Amy...thank you for your support! ;) Okay, now what's all this about the poem? tons of people have mentioned it to me, but I have NO FREAKING CLUE what inspired it, nor do I understand why numerous other people have been gossiping about it in the past 36 hours...will somebody please explain, and then will everybody knock it off? ;{ Mrroowww...ffft! Fft!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (17:24)", "body": "] Mrroowww...ffft! Fft! Oh, Kali dear, do you not realize that this sort of snorting and pawing will only result in a new picture? Grace did the deed. But it's your own fault. Your wit and vivacity -- I think -- have proved only too acceptable to some. Throw in a familiarity with Greek and classical civilisations, and we see before us a goner. I am quite envious."}, {"response": 90, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (18:00)", "body": "Amy, you read me all too well. You guessed the tale I wished to tell."}, {"response": 91, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:11)", "body": "OK Grace, I'm going to expose you... This was posted in the chat room yesterday: From: Grace at 12/6/96 5:49 PM Tonight I find myself all alone, No one to talk to, I can only moan... I thought I heard action behind that curtain.... But who it is, I can't be certain. Only wish I had time to dally, Would love to know who's back there doin' it with Kali...... So I leave it to you folks to deal with this clue... I have no doubt you'll know what to do. Be sure to tell me what you discover..... About our dear Kali and her mystery LOVER. Catch you later, Grace"}, {"response": 92, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:29)", "body": ""}, {"response": 93, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (20:05)", "body": "\"le r\ufffdduire en bouillie, en faire de la chair \ufffd p\ufffdt\ufffd \" Merci bien, Johanne - I am going to save these - they could come in quite handy!"}, {"response": 94, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (20:20)", "body": "But Joan, you probably won't be able to use it anyway, since you won't be able to conjugate the verbs correctly..."}, {"response": 95, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (20:46)", "body": "Just you wait, Henri Churchyard, Just you wait! You'll be sorry, but your tears'll come to late!"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (23:42)", "body": "Oboy."}, {"response": 97, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (11:09)", "body": ""}, {"response": 98, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (23:02)", "body": "(just you wait!)"}, {"response": 99, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (23:04)", "body": "Oops! Forgot that said \"Kali\" - please substitute my own humble name, and the sentiment \"le r\ufffdduire en bouillie\" [smirk] The RW"}, {"response": 100, "author": "Bells", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (02:10)", "body": "Tardy response to Ian (Response #74) Not a bad idea at all for a meeting in Terra Australis... a night of imbibing in Canberra. I've heard that our nation's capital does grow things other than public servants ... not that there's anything wrong with them! ;-)"}, {"response": 101, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (03:47)", "body": "I hereby publicly take back all of the nasty things I may have said earlier in this thread about HC's meatier qualities. The man is a saint!"}, {"response": 102, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (15:12)", "body": "No, Joan...I think he deserved it! ;)"}, {"response": 103, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (23:29)", "body": "Here are images for Ann and Amy: I didn't intend Amy's to be so big, but it turned out that way..."}, {"response": 104, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (15:36)", "body": ""}, {"response": 105, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:37)", "body": "Anna, dear? Is this a silent cry for help? ;)"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:40)", "body": "I can't get the &^(6%# cork out of the champagne."}, {"response": 107, "author": "geekman", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (01:38)", "body": "I'll help you Anna with that cork. Hmmm ...(pop!) ... Oh I very much approve of your choice Anna. What vintage?"}, {"response": 108, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (15:57)", "body": "1812 of course!"}, {"response": 109, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (16:29)", "body": "SNORT!"}, {"response": 110, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (17:39)", "body": "Kali - please don't breathe the champagne"}, {"response": 111, "author": "geekman", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (07:00)", "body": "Yes Kali, so unbecoming of a lady! Only men can be neanderthals here! 1812 Anna, yes very good. Mmmm refreshing, has a slightly woody favour..."}, {"response": 112, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (17:44)", "body": "I never understood why human beings enjoy fermented fruits which taste like oak barrels."}, {"response": 113, "author": "pemberley", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (02:33)", "body": "Well Young Lady, I think I need to escort you in your travels around the world as you learn to contemplate and savour the wonders of the many fine wines."}, {"response": 114, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (14:49)", "body": "Rebecca and Joan were asking for an image in chat yesterday; I had a bright idea for one, so I hope you're satisfied, Rebecca ;-) (Sorry Joan, haven't thought of an appropriate image for you yet...)"}, {"response": 115, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (10:06)", "body": "I saw this web based chat site today. It was a link from the http://www.centrum.is site: http://www.centrum.is/cgi-bin/vefspjallid Check it out and see if you think this would be a good chat system for the Spring."}, {"response": 116, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (13:21)", "body": "Terry - Out of curiousity, what is wrong with the Pemberley chat room? Why do we need another?"}, {"response": 117, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (13:26)", "body": "You are wonderful, HC. Yes, I AM Lizzy!"}, {"response": 118, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (16:32)", "body": "Well HC how about it then? An image duel for the lady's attentions?"}, {"response": 119, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (21:55)", "body": "I agree with Kaff...PCR is great! Oh no...here we go again with the graphics...but at least these have nothing to do with bestiality! ;)"}, {"response": 120, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (22:14)", "body": "PCR is great, but the software does not have many \"high end\" features. For instance, what if we were to entice CF in for a chat? Would we not wish to be able to save the"}, {"response": 121, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (22:18)", "body": "...or ailurogamy..."}, {"response": 122, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (22:19)", "body": "Hee hee, Joan...:::)"}, {"response": 123, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (22:20)", "body": "GRRRRRRRR!!!! (I shall spare you the blinking...) PCR is great, but the software does not have many \"high end\" features. For instance, what if we were to entice CF in for a chat? Would we not wish to be able to save the entire thing and archive it somewhere here for continued drooling? ;-) Other chat software that I have experienced (AOL's probably being the best known) has the ability to do this, and many groups do invite/persuade special \"guests\" of interest to them to participate in a chat session in this manner. I don't think it hurts to try out other implementations of chat - in case there is one available that we might like even better."}, {"response": 124, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (22:20)", "body": "Fermez la bouche, Kali!"}, {"response": 125, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (23:26)", "body": "I was thinking of a generic chat system for the Spring as a whole, I realize that the Pemberly chat room is serving your purpose well and I am suggesting that it be replaced with something else. It would be nice to find out who's online at any given time on the Spring and engage them in chat. Has anyone looked at the chat url I mentioned: http://www.centrum.is/cgi-bin/vefspjallid I'd be interested in comments on how this compares to the Pemberly chat system, which I also have the code for."}, {"response": 126, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (00:35)", "body": "I shall look eventually, but not till after Christmas - it will be all I can do to get ready for that between now and then!"}, {"response": 127, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (04:44)", "body": "Terry, I had a visit of the chat room at http://www.centrum.is/cgi-bin/vefspjallid and I approve of the lack of a background image which can slow up the loading of the page in the Pemberley Chat Room. However the dialogue box in the PCR is much more user friendly and the feedback upon uploading the message is faster. I do like the ability to be able to set your own refresh rate in the PCR although the other chat page has a frequent automatic refresh set at 15 seconds. An advantage of the other room i the slightly better layout for those with browsers that can load frames, but that precludes anyone with an older browser. All up my vote is still firmly for the PCR."}, {"response": 128, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (05:34)", "body": "HC: Now Kali has her own Games Software at http://www.kali.net Oh and a new image too! ;)"}, {"response": 129, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (08:05)", "body": "I hope that we can have a page somewhere that lists the home pages of participants in this conference. And anyone without a home page, (\"homepageless\") is welcome to one on the Spring."}, {"response": 130, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (17:57)", "body": "Oh, you boys and your graphics!!! God, who should I choose....Decisions, decisions! K and my Auntie: What do you think, dearests?"}, {"response": 131, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (20:26)", "body": "Good Grief, Kali! Where ever did you find the time to create such a detailed and impressive site in the middle of finals! You are truly to be admired. And all the while pretending not even to know how to blink! ;;;)"}, {"response": 132, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (20:58)", "body": "Whatever, Joan! ;) I DO love all the attention, though...;) Actually, Terry...I've been looking for a permanent place to house my page as my account at school may be terminated upon graduation...care to give me more info about getting a site at Spring? ;) Thanks..."}, {"response": 133, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (22:08)", "body": "Sure kali. Just email mailto://terry@spring.com me with a username and password to setup. Your webpage will be of the form: http://www.spring.com/~kali In the email, be sure to give your full name, address, phone no. etc and I'll create the account. The actual webpage is called index.html and will reside in the public_html directory in your user directory. Anyone who is a regular contributor to any conference on the Spring is welcome to a home page."}, {"response": 134, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (04:25)", "body": "Hey the web site is interesting -- find the answers to the following questions there: What is Kali? How do I get Kali? How do I use Kali? \ufffd-- Brief description of how to use the different versions of Kali. Playing games with Kali -- List of the hot multiplayer games and relevant links about them. And I highly resent the implied accusation that I would be so indelicate to allude to such an improper topic as bestiality -- I never insinuated that it would be anything other than a legitimate aboveboard fair-and-square Marriage -- AilouroGAMy. Refer to the image in which it's all spelled out in plain, simple, and comprehensible Greek"}, {"response": 135, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (05:34)", "body": "Ian, what does the bell in the corner of your image mean? Is it wedding bells? When may we expect the carriage to drive off from the church door?"}, {"response": 136, "author": "geekman", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (06:02)", "body": "And A Belated Happy Birthday Henri. The Bell tolls for people's attention, and is not meant to suggest anything other than that! But whose carriage do you infer HC? ;-)"}, {"response": 137, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (07:13)", "body": "The carriage which is to convey you and \"Lizzia\" home to Pemberley, err... Newcastle, no wait I mean Pemberley -- or I think Newcastle.. Anyway, I guess YOU DECIDE!"}, {"response": 138, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (14:53)", "body": "You're absitively, posilutely correct, H (how would the hookah-sucking catepillar in _Alice_ say it?)...about Pembercastle, that is... FYI, I don't plan on marrying my cat, or anyone else's, for that matter. Oh and BTW, the answers to the above items re: Kali are NOT located in any web site...;)"}, {"response": 139, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (06:49)", "body": "A few days ago in the chat room Ian and I discovered that we are both great Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy fans and have dubbed each other Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect, respectively. Since then we have added a few others to our number; Amy is Zaphod Beebelbrox and Kaffeine is Slartibartfast. Ann and Selina have also admitted to being fans but have not yet declared a persona. Are there any other HGTTG fans out there? I know it seems incongruous to be both an Austenite and yearn for a Babel Fish, but it seems to be true nonetheless. It is time to come out of the closet all you HGTTG fans, as long as you DON'T PANIC and have your towel with you, it will be all right!"}, {"response": 140, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (08:30)", "body": "That's right folks, my bedroom is fast disappearing as it's being removed by a Vogon blaster. Although she does not confess to the name, Rebecca has been has been dubbed by both Cheryl and I, Trillian. Well I'd better go and find my toothbrush ... somewhere under this potplant ... I wonder what this button does ..."}, {"response": 141, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (09:51)", "body": "Wait till mixu catches wind of this!"}, {"response": 142, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (11:28)", "body": "Somewhere around here I have a great DON'T PANIC screensaver, not to worry though - it has no Vogon poetry to it!"}, {"response": 143, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (13:09)", "body": "Vogon poetry???!!! Aaaaaaaarrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"}, {"response": 144, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (19:46)", "body": "I sometimes tease Amy with being a \"lady eccentric\", so I proposed to her that there should be a suitable piece of music entitled \"The March of the Lady Eccentrics\". However, she pointed out that a march would imply too great a degree of regimentation, so I offered an alternative title -- \"The Ramble (In Various Different Directions) of the Lady Eccentrics\". Too bad I have no ability to compose music to go along to the title... ;-) ["}, {"response": 145, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (23:54)", "body": "Your astral-belt bevy of lady eccentrics graphic is indeed rambling orbitally, HC. Gustav Holst's THE PLANETS music conveys just the right flux of planetary travel modes to accomodate all our lady eccentrics styles, (from quirky little Mercury to thunderous Jupiter to languorous Venus, etc.)"}, {"response": 146, "author": "Becks", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (05:45)", "body": "You people are sick!"}, {"response": 147, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (13:00)", "body": "\"Beatles\",\"Beatles\" everywhere,but no \"Anthologys\" to be had.I'll just hummmmm to my self."}, {"response": 148, "author": "sysop", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (15:43)", "body": "I played a little Beatles on the piano today, Donna. \"Back in the USSR, \" with the little interlude that pays tribute to the Beach Boys!"}, {"response": 149, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (17:14)", "body": "Cool! Terry, I play the piano and the Beatles are great. I just got Mozart's Concerta No 21 Andante {'Elvira Madigan' Theme} I love it."}, {"response": 150, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (17:51)", "body": "Oops. Sorry, Donna, that was me. I forget myself and who I was and everything."}, {"response": 151, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (17:59)", "body": "How many of \"you\" are there Amy?"}, {"response": 152, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (20:09)", "body": "Yes, Kali, Donna, Janet and I had a Beatles Lovefest going on last night! It was Fab! :-)"}, {"response": 153, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (14:25)", "body": "There was a super documentary on HBO (I think -- it was one of the premium movie channels, anyway) Monday night about the Beach Boys new (?) album w/ country music singers doing the lead vocals and the Boys doing the backup. (Tammy Wynette did \"In My Room\".) Great fun, and hard to believe how old they all are! All of them seemed to be having a good time, and that made the music even more enjoyable."}, {"response": 154, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (17:02)", "body": "the Boys doing the backup. (Tammy Wynette did \"In My Room\".) ___ How very odd!"}, {"response": 155, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (19:50)", "body": "\"Great fun, and hard to believe how old they all are! ' ... and consequently how old we all are! :-)"}, {"response": 156, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (20:28)", "body": "You haven't heard \"In My Room\" until you've heard Danish punk-rocker Nina Hagen's karaoke version (done about 1980)..."}, {"response": 157, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (20:31)", "body": "Oh! my really?"}, {"response": 158, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (05:39)", "body": "Is there anyone out there who has even heard an obscure Beach Boys song called \"I'm Bugged At My Old Man?\""}, {"response": 159, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (15:55)", "body": ""}, {"response": 160, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do love #1f81a6. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do."}, {"response": 161, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (16:02)", "body": "And I believe in spooks, too. I do."}, {"response": 162, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "LOL Amy! But tell me, can you twist your tail whilst declaiming? ;-)"}, {"response": 163, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "Courage, Amy... We should do the Beatles bonding thing again soon, Cheryl, Janet, Donna...that was lots of fun. And hey, there's a P&P2 connection...JE played Cynthia Lennon in \"Backbeat\"! ;)"}, {"response": 164, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:28)", "body": "Celebrate Paul McCartney's knighthood in the music conference topic on this."}, {"response": 165, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:36)", "body": "Woo-hoo! Sir Paul...oooh, how well that sounds! ;)"}, {"response": 166, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (02:52)", "body": "Kali! I have yet to talk to you since you came in from the cold! I miss you! :-("}, {"response": 167, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (19:16)", "body": "Awwww...I missed you too, Auntie! Tonite in chat, shall we catch up? ;)"}, {"response": 168, "author": "geekman", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:21)", "body": "Yeah, Kali!"}, {"response": 169, "author": "geekman", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:22)", "body": "Yeah, Kali!"}, {"response": 170, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (00:39)", "body": "Henry, I was grinding through all the topics again, (old is new struck me again) and noticed you promised Joan her own image a while back but did not have any ideas. I have some."}, {"response": 171, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (01:16)", "body": ""}, {"response": 172, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (01:17)", "body": "Ok, lay them on me, Amy... ;-)"}, {"response": 173, "author": "amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "GRRR comes to mind, for one thing. UNIX loathing might be a fun way to go! Mmmmm... Mac loyalty... Royal We... Columbo. There are so many hooks."}, {"response": 174, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (14:11)", "body": "Ode on arriving at an inopportune moment in the chat room From: Grace at 1/18/97 5:19 PM I bemoan Being Alone. Me thinks My timing STINKS!"}, {"response": 175, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (14:37)", "body": "Classic, Grace...absolutely classic..."}, {"response": 176, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (17:53)", "body": ""}, {"response": 177, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (18:05)", "body": ""}, {"response": 178, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (18:09)", "body": "Henry!"}, {"response": 179, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "But Henry, the beauty of our obsession is that we no more really though we could have Mr. Firth than Mr. Darcy; there is nothing to get over; the fantasy lives on!"}, {"response": 180, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (19:04)", "body": "Right on, Mari! I personally think that Firth the man is not all that great, but as Mr. Darcy (and Mr. Darcy only!), he is wonderful!"}, {"response": 181, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (19:19)", "body": "But after all the electrons that have been spent in encomiums and drooling, should I not have the right to tease you ladies just a little?"}, {"response": 182, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (19:20)", "body": "Go ahead. Just remember that not all of us are jealous because he's getting married!"}, {"response": 183, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (19:31)", "body": "H.C.: ENCOMIUMS?! How the h*** do ya pronounce THAT? Better yet, say it three times fast."}, {"response": 184, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "Hc: But after all the electrons that have been spent in encomiums and drooling, should I not have the right to tease you ladies just a little? While I am the first to admit that I like Darcy (not Firth) very well indeed in fantasy, I must also admit that Henry's tease has me sitting here laughing into my monitor screen like a fool. Thanks for the \"ha ha\", HC."}, {"response": 185, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (13:13)", "body": "Yes, Henry, we certainly must allow you that priviledge, for we all agree that ''For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn?''"}, {"response": 186, "author": "Becks", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (00:35)", "body": "HC: RASPBERRY!!"}, {"response": 187, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (00:07)", "body": "The fact that I'm married hasn't slowed my heart----why should I care if he is? It is, after all, a fantasy. :)"}, {"response": 188, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (00:38)", "body": "Okay, I'm changing the subject. Today in chat I revealed what I look like. I'm proud of my newfound scanning abilities (but I'm still getting the hang of editing, as you can see!)! I am in the back, on the left, in the blue dress, wearing glasses and pearls around my neck. This picture was taken at my birthday dinner in DC this summer."}, {"response": 189, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:00)", "body": "Kali, how nice to see you! Thanks."}, {"response": 190, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (12:35)", "body": "Kali! I am afraid I'm getting softer every year(in some ways, that is).So nice to see you as you look rigth at me, admit I got a lump in my throat. It is so amazing this distant getting together thing. As for your scanning abilities I can only admire them. Hope to learn myself."}, {"response": 191, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (15:28)", "body": "Kali, it's nice to put another face to this group. I now know what you and Myretta look like. I admire your scanning skills - I'm way behind; I don't even have a scanner and wouldn't know what to do with one if I did!! Next time you're in DC you'll have to e-mail before and we can get together - can even introduce you to my lawyer son who works at Justice Dept."}, {"response": 192, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (16:26)", "body": "Inko: can even introduce you to my lawyer son who works at Justice Dept. Inko, would this be called \"networking\" or \"matchmaking\" ?? ;-)"}, {"response": 193, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (16:37)", "body": "Cheryl: LOL, but more networking than matchmaking, knowing my son!!;-) He's single, but not interested in lawyers! Of course, I don't know about future lawyers!!;-)"}, {"response": 194, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (18:52)", "body": "Thanks, Ann2 and Inko...I hope that I will get to meet both of you in person very soon! :) Inko: Your son works at DOJ? Wow, great gig..."}, {"response": 195, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "Kali, he works at DOJ in Land Acquisition at present. Was formerly in environmental enforcement. It is, as you say, a good gig for him - leaves him enough time on weekends and odd days for his main love, sci-fi and sci-fi conventions!"}, {"response": 196, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:29)", "body": "sci-fi conventions! __ You mean, like Star Trek, Inko?"}, {"response": 197, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:50)", "body": "No Amy, the real sci-fi people hardly ever associate with \"trekkies\", though trekkies occasionally show up at their conventions. Don't ask me what kind of sci-fi--I'm not into it, though he did tell me that at one there was a Regency group where they had a real regency dance!! Now that would be something right up my alley!!"}, {"response": 198, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:29)", "body": "] he did tell me that at one there was a Regency group where they had a real regency dance!! Now that would be something right up my alley!! __ Yes, I've been thinking along the same lines. Had no idea there was such a thing. I just bought two roleplaying game books: a victorian game called Comme il Faut and a book about creating games, thinking about adapting the Victorian one for the Regency. Ask him for more info, would you? (Our HC also looks down at Star Trek.)"}, {"response": 199, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:04)", "body": "I prefer Babylon 5!"}, {"response": 200, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:10)", "body": "TNG RULES!!!!"}, {"response": 201, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:18)", "body": "No comment!"}, {"response": 202, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:20)", "body": "Kali come to the PCR!"}, {"response": 203, "author": "geekman", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (06:55)", "body": "Of course HHGTTG and Red Dwarf rule! ;-) As far as TV sci-fi goes anyway! That's sacrilege here in the Austen Conference!"}, {"response": 204, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (13:02)", "body": "just read every entry, COOL, now how do i get into chat......."}, {"response": 205, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (14:06)", "body": "TJ, there's a link on the main page of Spring...\"Live chat at Pemberley Drawing Room\" or something. When you get there you need to choose the \"Pemberley Drawing Room\"-- it is defaulted to the \"Northam Lounge\" and there you are! Come join us sometime! ;-)"}, {"response": 206, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (15:19)", "body": "Yes, I'm afraid I do look down upon people who are very interested in TV science fiction (for example Star Trek), but have no interest in any other science fiction... The Regency dancing at the Science Fiction convention has a WWW page at http://lacon3.worldcon.org/www/Events/regency.htm (I haven't ever really been to an SF convention, myself...)"}, {"response": 207, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (17:47)", "body": "Kali and Ian - ST:TNG AND HHGTTG Rule!!"}, {"response": 208, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:39)", "body": "Love you, Kaff!"}, {"response": 209, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (01:05)", "body": "Kaffeine: ST:TNG AND HHGTTG Rule!! Yeah, but Vogon poetry bites! Resistance is futile! ;-)"}, {"response": 210, "author": "Grace", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (12:08)", "body": "Cheryl, I left you the poem (not Vogon) that we talked about....look in topic 3 of the poetry conference. As to whether it 'bites', you will have to let me know. Ann, try to leave the offering you mentioned....in the same place...we would all love to get a look at it! Kali, it is wonderful to finally see you. Thanks!"}, {"response": 211, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (21:11)", "body": "Oh my dear little Kuklamou -- It was so nice to see your picture! Louie says \"My goodness, she does look like a greek girl!\". I'm glad that you have this skill -- If I mail our picture to you, could you post it? I haven't gotton my \"Snappy\" yet. Let me know, OK?"}, {"response": 212, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (00:12)", "body": "I've been trying to find a solution to the problem of AOL and Prodigy users not being able to participate in chat. I've found a Java app that I think would solve the problem. I'd appreciate it if you would try it out and let me know what you think - especially those of you using Prodigy or AOL. Its at: http://www.worldrch.com/temp.html"}, {"response": 213, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (00:20)", "body": "Very nice of you to do that, Kaf. I'm impressed. Java! Eee! Still scares me."}, {"response": 214, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (03:46)", "body": "Glad you and Louie got a kick outta my pic! ;) You certainly can send me the picture...you still have my address, right?"}, {"response": 215, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (09:04)", "body": "Don't be impressed - I didn't write anything! Its a company called Sneaker Chat. You just block and copy some html onto a web page, and their server does all the work! I like it, in terms of ease of use, but it has one flaw I don't think will make it practical for our group to use. You can only speak in sentences, rather than in paragraphs as we do at Pemberley. Let me know what you think."}, {"response": 216, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (09:12)", "body": "Will you be around later, Kaf? I have breakfast club in just a little while, but I wanted to ask you something else about Pemberley."}, {"response": 217, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "Off and on, Amy. Give me a shout!"}, {"response": 218, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (10:41)", "body": "Well, some of us had a slumber party at Pemberley last night! We talked hair, boys (Darcy, Wentworth, etc.), we made fudge, we were even invaded by a BOY (poor Ian!), but at least at this slumber party, no one's bra ended up in the freezer! It was a hoot! ;-)"}, {"response": 219, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "Kaffeine, I much prefer the Chat Rooms you've set up, despite logging in problems, socket errors and other problems which crop up from time to time. Speaking in single sentences is very difficult for people who are so able to speak lengthy passages without drawing breath. But, we really would test and push any chat service to it's limits regardless of the medium. As your service still copes admirably well most of the time then I vote we stay with your service."}, {"response": 220, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (21:14)", "body": "Kaffeine, I'm an AOL user and I just minutes ago tried your link. Either no one was home or everyone thinks I'm weird for chatting away to myself! It seemed to work, but no one was listed as a room occupant but myself."}, {"response": 221, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (10:38)", "body": "Margaret - Since its just a test site, the odds were that you wouldn't find anyone there. It IS good to know, however, that you AOLers can get into it! Now all I need to do is find a similar program that will allow for speaking in more than short sentences, so that we can ALL get together!!"}, {"response": 222, "author": "bernie", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (05:28)", "body": "Kaff, here's an interesting pronblem. I just went over to see the temporary chat room and all I get is a blank black page and a message, which says \"Applet can't srart; class JavaTalkClient not found\". I'm using Netscape Gold 3 with an ethernet connection ot the Internet. PS Sorry about the spellings, but editing in a shell account is still an awful lot of hassle :("}, {"response": 223, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (15:16)", "body": "I got a \"connection not made\" error when I tried to connect..."}, {"response": 224, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (15:17)", "body": ""}, {"response": 225, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (15:22)", "body": "Here's some impromptu ad hoc imprecations and poetry, devised on the occasion of finding oneself alone in the chat room: From: Ann2 at 2/2/97 5:15 PM Forever empty is this room, why is it so? Wrong choice of time I do assume, I grieve hoho... From: Grace at 2/4/97 3:27 PM Everyone goes out the door... I am left alone once more! It is a condition I deplore. From: Grace at 1/25/97 10:41 AM Amy, Henry, Ian et al.... I am now channeling all my wishes and thoughts to you in hopes of persuading you cosmically to now appear here..... From: Ann2 at 2/2/97 3:26 PM Oh no, not again... those walls however elegantly covered with tapisseries and paintings, echo the sound of my lonely thoughts... Oh where are the friends that once I knew? Where have they gone?"}, {"response": 226, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (15:35)", "body": "Oh how sad!"}, {"response": 227, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:25)", "body": "That's wonderful - graffiti in the chat room!! If you have your towel, click here! (wav file)"}, {"response": 228, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:43)", "body": "I tried to go into A Place to Practice HTML under this new configuration and got a Server Error message (I was able to get in before). Help?"}, {"response": 229, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:56)", "body": "Kaff - connections to the PCR seem to have ground to a complete halt - is there something happening in your part of the world interfering with connection?"}, {"response": 230, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:01)", "body": "Kaff, Netscape said that the .wav file was \"invalid\"???"}, {"response": 231, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:13)", "body": "Joan, too -- I was able to access Kaff's .wav file, using Netscape. Local server problem?"}, {"response": 232, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:20)", "body": "Just tried it again - Netscape (3.0, Mac) does not seem to like it. The PRC has not accepted a connection for almost an hour now..."}, {"response": 233, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:22)", "body": "\" So long.... and thanks for all the fish\" :) all I need to hear now is Wallace to say \" Cheeeeeze, Gromit, we need some more Cheeeeeeezzzzzeeeee\""}, {"response": 234, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "oups, sorry, forgot to mention I'm on Netscape gold 3.1 Windoze95 like it :)"}, {"response": 235, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:42)", "body": "The last time I tried the .wav it froze my whole machine and I had to restart. But I did save it and it played OK off line... go figure!"}, {"response": 236, "author": "geekman", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (03:37)", "body": "Well, I'm very pleased to see the PDR back again, Kaff. Bernie, Amy and I were all tossed out yesterday morning (USA Eastern Time) while having a great repartee. C'est la vie! ;-)"}, {"response": 237, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:26)", "body": "Re: Chat outage. Here's the response from my ISP: ----------------- Kathleen, We noticed some instability in the hard drive about 1 -1/2 ago and we are replacing it now. We have shut off ftp access so that no one can write to the drive while we transfer the data to the new one. Should be up again in another hour. --------------------"}, {"response": 238, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (02:08)", "body": "Thanks for the explanation, Kaff. Actually Kathleen, I hope you do get enough sleep ?"}, {"response": 239, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (00:03)", "body": "Here's a link for you HHGTTG fans (a screensaver) ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/winsite/win3/desktop/panic11.zip"}, {"response": 240, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (00:25)", "body": "Thanks Slartibartfast! From Ford Prefect."}, {"response": 241, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (08:51)", "body": "Thanks Slartibartfast! From Ford Prefect. And from one of the Arthurs. Myarthur austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 74, "subject": "Discuss Nostromo", "response_count": 24, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (18:48)", "body": "I agree with Laura M. \ufffdid not care for Nostromo. \ufffdid tape all of it - but don't know why now. \ufffdirth cannot come close to his portrayal of Darcy."}, {"response": 2, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (18:56)", "body": "I will sum up my comment with a : why on earth use 3-2hour tape when I could have used 1-6hour one instead. Cause it won't rerun that often except for some passages. I too found the love scene kind of mild and rushed, brusque should I say? Well if the character is more aroused by silver than his wife..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (19:19)", "body": "Know the old adage about a camel being a horse designed by a committee? Well, i feel that they boiled up the camel, in plain English style, added a little Italian Stuffing, and some Spanish sauce, and served it up all on one plate!It is too much to swallow in one go,and I have indigestion! I don't know yet wheter it if it is a dish fit for this picky princess, or just plain old Turkey Hash. There were so many characters, that none but nostromo was drawn in anything more than a pencil-sketch, and therefore hard to credit. Just two clear points-1) the Italians were wonderful , 2)Colin Firth either is a crappy kisser, or her didn't much like Serena!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "Caroline, Pemberley?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "To add to above remarks I would like to say that I do not wish to go against the mores of the group and I do realize that Firth is too talented to be stereotyped as a 19th century country gentleman. I feel that it took every line and every character to make P&P2 what we all love and I cannot expect that in every role plays."}, {"response": 6, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (21:00)", "body": "Between his mustache and hers, that's probably why they looked like it hurt to kiss. But Firth did look awesome, but everytime he \"Nostromo, I need your help...\" I cringed. It was like asking a little boy for his lollipop. And the horses, so small. But the one who played Antonia, where did they find her. She SUCKED!!! Albert Finney as usual was good. Even though I only saw well one and one half episodes. Actually seeing CF sweat was a definite turn on. Me in my nightie, with glass of wine in hand dying for the first night to end so I could get back to my book Circle of Friends, which bTW is AWESOME!!! Wasn't crazy about the movie. I wouldn't kick Chris O'Donnell out of bed I can tell you yessiree. Well back to Nostromo oh no!!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (21:07)", "body": "I think one problem we might have with Nostromo is the fact that in the book Gould is not a major character, he's just the character the other's lives revolve around--so there wasn't enough Firth. I liked Nostromo a lot, but then I have read the book, which fills in what the movie didn't show, and I'm a Conrad fan. Am I the only one who liked it?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:37)", "body": "I liked it too Ann. I thought it was photographed beautifully and that Albert Finney gave an award-winning performance. The actor playing Nostromo is definitely worth drooling over! Firth was not as compelling in this role as he was playing Darcy, but I thought he made the most of what they wrote for him and I really disliked his character at the end because he chose the silver over his wonderful wife. And I found Nostromo's dilemma and tortured decision to 'get rich very slowly' will conveyed. I thoug t Claudia Cardinale was overly made-up for her role; found that distracting. I have not read this book but may just have to now."}, {"response": 9, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "No, you're not, amiga! On the other NOSTROMO thread I just said a bit about Conrad; I won't repeat that here. I find Conrad (and thus films based on his work interesting, thought-provoking, and even finger-pointing at times at some of us in the audience. And in this morally slack age we're buried in now, I find that a positive goad and reminder of things like absolute truths, moral guts, integrity, etc.- things which Conrad hews out of the quarry, so to speak, for everything he ever wrote (rather like homas Hardy novels). CF was not the lead in an elegant British setting with grace and wit at every turn in NOSTROMO, so that could be disappoining to folks who've never read Conrad when they see this or any Conrad film. But is not this precisely what we get ticked off at on this BB? Someone who has never read Austen and yet stoutly declares the plot, characterization, or themes to be something we readers know to be in error? ;-)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:47)", "body": "No, you're not, amiga! meant \"Ann, you're not the only one who liked it.\""}, {"response": 11, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:03)", "body": "Am I wrong, or did they take some liberties at the end of the show--particularly with Gould becoming something of a dictator. I thought the objections to the government which began to grow up at the end of the book, was more of an \"it's time to get restless\" again variety. (I also didn't like the idea that Pedro Montero was in with Nostromo at the end--that was certainly not in the book.) I think they could have done better with the \"Material Interests\" theme, but I suppose that is a lot harder to convey than character developement."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:48)", "body": "Well, I didn't hate Nostromo, but then again, I didn't love it! ;-) I had no problem following the story and will admit, Cecily, to never reading the book. But that being said, I found the huge gaps in time to be jarring, which is of course a film making dilemma. I take it that years have past between some scenes, but there was nothing outward to indicate it until it sank in...my that lighthouse went up fast...etc... And speaking from a purely hunk standard...I would say that Ramirez, Nostromo's Indian protoge, far outshone anyone else in the cast! Ooh baby! ;-) And one more note...am I the only one who noticed the pronounced dagginess as Charles was dragged to the executioner's platform...? I didn't think so! ;-)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (06:00)", "body": "Since CF referred to the garroting in at least two interviews I read, it obviously made quite an impact on him psychologically (and yes, Cheryl, physically, but then real executions apparently have that too, along with the other more painful symptoms)."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (08:44)", "body": "I have tried to watch Nostromo a dozen times and keep falling asleep. My children keep asking me what it is I am watching all the time, not quite understanding it is on all the time because I am trying to make myself watch something I have not really enjoyed. Anyway, I continue to answer \"Nostromo.\" They have begun to chant the Los Lobos rap from Short Circuit 2: \"Nostromo kick your ___ Nostromo kick your face... Nostromo kick your ___ into outerspace.\""}, {"response": 15, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (09:28)", "body": "I think I like it now. Enough to keep the tapes for a while, anyway.My husband does, so do most of the men I have talked to about it.Perhaps that's the problem, Amy, it was done by men, for men, whereas P&P was done with the female market in mind. Or N was done for the Italian market. Or even too many markets! My main gripe is still that it is too crammed."}, {"response": 16, "author": "jane", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (09:49)", "body": "I enjoyed it, thought it slow at the beginning, and confusing---I had to keep asking my husband to remind me who the characters were. I have trouble evaluating CF, I'm afraid, due to excessive (?) viewing of P&P. So, I find myuself noticing, \"Oh, riding boots again\" instead of being drawn into the character, through no fault of CF's acting ability. I am relieved to read above that in the book Nostromo does not end up in cahoots with that nasty brother of the general. That really upset me in the film because I thought Nostromo would never do that. Jane"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (11:35)", "body": "'Since CF referred to the garroting in at least two interviews I read, it obviously made quite an impact on him psychologically' - France Wow! I have been thinking along the same lines. I know that one interviewer was 'insulted' by CF asking him if he knew what garroting was, but the second interview seems to indicate that a)he had not known that it would take the form that it did (the steel band, etc.). Perhaps he thought of it like I did, as a thin wire (ala the Cosa Nostra execution). And b) the horror of that way of being killed really got to him personally (possibly because they accidentaly came too close to the real thing!))"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (14:26)", "body": "Ann, you're right. I've just finished the book and Pedro Montero just disappears somewhere to the south. It also doesn't say who Nostromo uses to convert the ingots into money, but Pedro would be a very strange choice. Wonder why they did that, except as a shorthand to show that he was still alive while his brother was dead. I've already posted a longer follow up on the other Nostromo topic, so won't repeat it here. Cheryl - I also noticed Charles' dagginess as he was being dragged to his execution!;-) I guess it's a combination of riding breeches (again), leaning back while walking (giving the impression he's being dragged) and our ever-searching eyes!!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (14:31)", "body": "Re the garroting scene: Yes, it was a very intense scene, the most intense of the whole film for me (and not just for the daggy aspects!) CF did an amazing job there, but from what I understand, it may not have been all acting...? Was the scene shown the one where he was almost hurt? Jane: I have trouble evaluating CF, I'm afraid, due to excessive (?) viewing of P&P. So, I find myuself noticing, \"Oh, riding boots again\" instead of being drawn into the character, through no fault of CF's acting ability. I'm so glad you mentioned the riding boots, for I was pleased to see them as well! ;-)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (17:22)", "body": "Cheryl, yes, this is where he almost bought the farm; per the interview on the FoF page; \"Um, yes. There's a metal collar to strangle me around my neck and someone yelled an instruction which I didn't understand. My hands are tied behind my back and I don't speak Spanish to tell them I'm REALLY being strangled and to stop. And yet we finished on schedule and it looks great. \" Unfortunately, no one asked him about the riding boots OR \"dagginess\" ;-)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (17:23)", "body": "Cheryl, yes, this is where he almost bought the farm; per the interview on the FoF page; \"Um, yes. There's a metal collar to strangle me around my neck and someone yelled an instruction which I didn't understand. My hands are tied behind my back and I don't speak Spanish to tell them I'm REALLY being strangled and to stop. And yet we finished on schedule and it looks great. \" Unfortunately, no one asked him about the riding boots OR \"dagginess\" ;-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:57)", "body": "Mari: Unfortunately, no one asked him about the riding boots OR \"dagginess\" ;-) A unforgivable oversight, in my opinion! ;-)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (07:24)", "body": "Nostromo I did like the movie, it was just that every time I heard the flute music I thought Clint Eastwood would appear on is horse with a cigar and poncho. The Good ,the Bad and The Ugly. Just a little over played at certain times. CF in the garroting scene,that was very difficult to watch. His look is so dreamy in this film with the beard and sweet smiles at his wife. Especially in the first episoide before he became obessed with the silver mine. I did enjoy all the other major actors and found them to be very convincing. Now, I would like to finish the book."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 75, "subject": "Two-faced Lizzie", "response_count": 72, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "Mike, this is such a blatant \"trollers\" comment that I shall not deign to respond to the spurrious allegations contained in you message!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (17:05)", "body": "Mike, dear, yes. Just take it easy, okay? If you want to tease about this, please go ahead and tread lightly with it. We will be watching and determining what constitutes crossing the line. You are very welcome so long as you try to blend into our little society's mores. Do you understand, pal? Amy"}, {"response": 3, "author": "MikeC", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (17:29)", "body": "As principal Seymore Skinner of the Simpsons says: \"Prove me wrong children! Prove me wrong!\""}, {"response": 4, "author": "catie", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (17:54)", "body": "In the book it is obvious that Lizzie was speaking in jest: \"It's been coming on so gradually that I hardly know when it began. But I believe I must date it from my first seeing his beautiful grounds at Pemberly\". Another entreaty that she would be serious, however, produced the desired effect; and she soon satisfied Jane by her solemn assurances of attachment. I think that proves you wrong, Mike."}, {"response": 5, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (18:19)", "body": "A money-hungry gold-digger would have accepted him in the first place, Mike."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (18:24)", "body": "] Prove me wrong! Why bother? You may think as you chuse, for myself I think Lizzy spoke in jest."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (19:50)", "body": "Actually, despite the fact the I think Mike only posted this for the controversy, I don't entirely disagree with him. I read the book before I saw the mini-series. In the book it was very clear that what she said was in jest. I was surprised when I saw the mini-series that it wasn't clearly conveyed that she was kidding. If I had seen it without reading the book first, I might have been negatively influenced by that scene."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (20:17)", "body": "possibly a reason for reading the book?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (23:20)", "body": "Mike, I have to agree with Katy. If Lizzy were a gold digger, why not just accept Darcy's first proposal. I also agree with Kaff and think you are trying to provoke us. Gold diggers behave much more like Miss Bingley - flattery and throwing themselves at their victims"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (00:00)", "body": "Have you actually read the book, or any Jane Austen, Mike. Maybe then you would have justification to post here."}, {"response": 11, "author": "MikeC", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (00:37)", "body": "In response to the K sisters (Katy & Karen), Lizzie refused the initial proposal only because she had never seen Pemberley before, she had only heard how rich big D was but had no physical proof of how deep his pockets really were! Therefore, your statement that if she were a gold-digger she would have accepted his first proposal is false because she had never seen his mansion before. As to whether or not I'm trying to create trouble in your Austenite community, the answer is no. I am merely pointing out what I believe to be true. All of you have been reading each others comments for some time now, but the problem is that they are all one sided. For instance, you might dispute about some events that occur in the story but the opinions are in a positive light. Now, here comes Mike with a soured point of view and you guys can't take it! After all there are two sides to every story! Beli ve it or not I did enjoy most of the series, but the truth about Lizzie had to come out!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (02:00)", "body": "G'day, well as an Aussie bloke I'd have to agree with my fellow Novocastrian, Anna, that Lizzy was being sarcastic. Lizzy loved Darcy for far more than his grounds and house."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (09:08)", "body": "Mike, Shame on you!We have never pretended that we are anything but addicts here,so our one-sidedness has never been a problem.Methinks your comments smack rather of jealousy-of Darcy, and of his final happiness."}, {"response": 14, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (09:22)", "body": "How could anyone defame our wonderful Lizzy. Mike, if you must know, Lizzy would have taken Mr Darcy even without seeing Pemberley. But he had to prove himself capable of her. His pride and arrogance were what kept her from wanting him earlier in the novel. Seeing the grounds of Pemberley and hearing from the servant as to how wonderful Mr Darcy was helped changed her mind. But the eclipse of it all, was his willingness to help her family out with the whole Lydia scandal. He was in love with Lizzy a d managed to keep Lydia's reputation intact. That was when Lizzy realized how good he was and how much she did love him. I do not believe that Lizzy was a golddigger. She would have refused him, had she not seen a side of him that was soft, lovable and noble. Mr Darcy did things for a reason. Lizzy knew that most likely she would never marry a rich man and was okay with that. Calling Lizzy a golddigger is wrong. She married for love and only love."}, {"response": 15, "author": "cat", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (11:42)", "body": "If she hadn't seen Pemberley she wouldn't have seen Darcy again and that wouldn't have given him the chance to prove he had changed for the better, they wouldn't have fallen in love. So as you can plainly see it was essential that she should see Pemberley."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (14:15)", "body": "\"I am convinced that only the deepest love will tempt me into matrimony.\""}, {"response": 17, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (14:43)", "body": "Caroline, I don't think he'll put our Lizzy down again, which is why I created another topic just for him. Sometimes there is a method to my madness"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (17:24)", "body": "Why can't you see the jest in the film? Even Jane understands at once and reacts \"Ooh, Lizzy\"! with a laugh. And the expression on Lizzy's face when she pretends to concider, how her love began and as she comes to think of this provoking answer can't resist uttering it . It is to Jane mind you! her closest in confidence and who would know what to make of such a remark."}, {"response": 19, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (18:25)", "body": "Also, if Lizzy were purely a golddigger, why not marry Mr. Collins and keep Longbourne in the family? If she were that unconcerned about the connection between love & marriage?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Tay", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (19:25)", "body": "Besides, Lizzie always shows she doesn't think much of the rich: \"The rich can afford to throw insult wherever they go\" (paraphrasing)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "cat", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (19:42)", "body": "Ladies...Ladies....Please. Stop defending Lizzie...I personally think Mike is here to stir up trouble in our little community. If we ignore him the little pest might go away."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "Cat, I'm with you. I've been ignoring him all the way - if he gets no response from us, he'll soon tire of pestering us and will only make himself ridiculous in the process!;-)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "I had initially assumed that Mike just wanted an argument, any argument, and I was not inclined to dignify such an approach with serious debate, but I may have been wrong ( I have never claimed infallibility), and so... The suggestion that Lizzy was in it soley for the money is not a new one; as has been pointed out elswhere Sir Walter Scott is the first recorded instance. If one is to limit discussion to the evidence in P&P2 (and in topic 2 Mike seems to be saying he intends to go no further) then there is nothing more to be said on the topic than I disagree . As Kathleen has said, one may get a different impression from the series; even the best acting is more limited than a text in telling us what haracters are feeling. Although very close to the text, there are both additions and omissions in the screenplay of P&P2, and in some places, by the use of 'body-language' P&P2 gives us a particular interpretation of the text that is supportable but not necessarily indisputable if one refers to the text. It has been said elswhere that Jane Austen seems to have thought that it was wrong to marry [purely] for money, but silly to marry without it, and that her heroines follow her dictum. Any meaningful debate about this would require a basic familiarity of Jane Austen's 6 major works and of the social and financial conditions in the Regency period. I don't really care that much what Mike's opinion is; it can have no effect on me unless I let it, and I choose not to. I won't attempt to carry this debate any further by adding detail of the above. For anyone interested HC's web page (the address is in the Links via the Austen main page) has alot of detail, including a summary of some arguments against the 'Lizzy is a gold-digger' line. After all, as Caroline has said, this board is not a forum for critical debate, but a place where we can enjoy discussion about the delights of P&P2 with like minded folk."}, {"response": 24, "author": "MikeC", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (21:59)", "body": "Dear Cat and Inko, if I am just a little pest that is not worth responding to then why are you making it a point to ignore me? Do you KNOW the old saying: \"the squeaky wheel gets the grease?\" I will not decend to the level of name calling. I will just let her actions speak for themselves. Even though Lizzie looked after the welfare of her sisters, this didn't stop her from using her arts and allurements to draw in the best catch of them all in the end. How 'bout that?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (22:04)", "body": "Mike, her fine eyes, arts and allurements caught Darcy's attention all the while she was rejecting him!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (22:09)", "body": "Anna, well said. Mike, you remind me of several male associates and relatives whose propensity is to \"make waves\" in a conversational group, then kick back and enjoy the ensuing melee, particularly among womenfolk. An occasional amount of that can be oddly amusing; too much of it, an irritant. The above tide of remarks may be just what your ego wanted, but for more polite and amiable interchange, as befits our Austen group, I suggest reading the more courteous styles of Ian, Eric, Terry, Donald, Jake, et al., not to mention Austen herself. You are, in a manner of speaking, walking through a Regency ladies' tea room here, not a sports bar of the '90s. It is your attitude as worded that grates, more than any view, IMHO."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (22:16)", "body": "ROFLOL! This is to funny. Why do you insist.\"Arts and allurements\"this was said by a jealous lady whose daughter has nothing to offer but a \"running\" nose. Here is what you do. Find a character who is reliable in the video{since you have not read the book} who is against Lizzie. Who has not an axe to grind."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:05)", "body": "Mike, How old are you?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:27)", "body": "I am reading Wuthering Heights as I wait patiently for the downloading of thousands of messages (the 'what-is-old-is-new-again' virus hit last night). I have not read this in several years and at this time, I am thinking that Cathy may be the sanest person (the closest to a human being) of any character in the book. of course that is not saying much. oops, - wrong thread - anyone want to talk about WH here?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:32)", "body": "Know what I love about her, Katy? She is wild and that is prized by some."}, {"response": 31, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "Help, help, I'm snorting cocoa through my nose, ROTFLOL so hard. Katy, you are a scream! Sure, I'll talk about Wild Hiccups here!(WH)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:51)", "body": "Ah, here it is. Wild Hiccups, page 23: See Mike. See Mike catch sister of Kitty, Lovely Lizzy. See Mike call her bad names. Mike is a bad boy. page 24: Oh, good. Here come the big girls. The big girls tell Mike NO. Mike laughs. page 25: See Lovely Lizzy hiss and scratch. Poor Mike. See Mike pat sister of Kitty gently. Hear her purr. See the big girls clap for Mike."}, {"response": 33, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:59)", "body": "1. ROFLOL HARD 2. BELLYACHE 3. REREAD. POSOLOGY : follow step 1 to 3 and repeat."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Zimei", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (00:19)", "body": "Wuthering Heights, ah Yes. I first read it when I was 14 or 15 and plan to read it again. I enjoyed the BBC film on TNT the other day very much. I found it very well made, it's not easy to condense 30 years of love and hatred in less then 150 minutes. Although I do think the portrayal of Heathclif is a little one-dimentional in the second half of the film. I don't remember if that is how he is in the book - so consumed by revenge that he becomes an hateful and almost despicable man. Zimei Zimei"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (09:48)", "body": "Johanne, you have just proved again, for the umpteeth time that we are kindred spirits!Loved your prescription.... Let's start a new thread, something like \"Who else to play Heathcliff?\" I will start the ball rolling by nominating MIKE for the role........"}, {"response": 36, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "Capital! Capital! BTW sweet Caroline , sorry to ask again, did you receive my e-mails? Let me know...;)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (10:24)", "body": "unreadable : sweet Caroline"}, {"response": 38, "author": "MikeC", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (23:38)", "body": "Go check out LISA I'M FROM BOSTON.....MIKE IS GREAT for a shocking response. This has been quite amusing!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (01:16)", "body": "Amusing indeed. Our first flaming?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (09:28)", "body": "Johanne, I have been cursing Neil Diamond for years......Mail arrived safely, if late. Mike, Lisa is a lady of infinite resource and sagacity.She has a jaguar by the tail.....forgive me if I sound Kiplingesque, and leave this comment just so..."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (09:29)", "body": ""}, {"response": 42, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (11:12)", "body": "I would like to thank you all for putting up with my brother's \"reckless and wild behaviour\". Like Lizzie at the Netherfield Ball, I was ashamed of some of his responses and lack of gentlemanly behaviour. He is an obstinate headstrong boy whose manners and arrogance needed to be put in place by knowledgeable and insightful people. Maybe all of your comments will do for him what Lizzie's did for Darcy. I can only hope!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (11:18)", "body": "Lisa, I have a feeling your brother has returned to school well-pleased with himself for the attention he got and the reaction he caused. Perhaps he will meet his own Lizzy someday."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (08:11)", "body": "We might even think him a sweet boy, in our hearts, if we really knew him..."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:33)", "body": "Poor Mike. How deluded and misled he is. In concurrence with posts #'s 14 and 15 in this thread, see my post re: the Pemberly visit as a catalyst for Lizzie's changed feelings, buried somewhere in the Irony and Morality THread. It was Darcy's letter which provided Lizzy with the initial jolt as to the inaccuracy of her judgements, but it took some time and experience with this idea of a \"new\" Darcy to make her realize that he was worth her love. The Pemberly visit gave Lizzy a chance to get to know Darcy on his own turf, comfortable, and at home. The way he keeps his household, the outspoken regard of Mrs. Reynolds, the evidence of his love for his sister, and his easy and pleasant manner when \"in his element\" prove to Lizzy t at he is not so disagreeable as she thinks. He is merely shy, and his nasty \"pride\" is merely a defense mechanism he uses to shield himself against teh discomfort he feels around strangers. His kind treatment of the Gardiners...Lizzy's worthy relations...is further proof that he is not really a snob so much as he is a critic of the weaknesses of humankind in general. Amy, do you still have my Postmodern Deconstructionist Diatribe? If so, could you pull it up here somehow? I think it did a pretty good job of conveying my feelings re: Lizzy as a golddigger...;)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:36)", "body": "I will look for it, Kal. You are certainly a postin' machine tonight."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:38)", "body": "Why are you not \"Chatty\" Kali tonight?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:42)", "body": "THanks, Amy...DOnna...I may be there yet, love! BTW, my first Pemberley Meeting post was NOT in the Irony and Morality THreatd, but in the Visiting the Lakes THread...duh!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:54)", "body": "If we can hope he'll start to think if he was right, as Darcy did, he must first belive that Darcy is good, which I'm not convinced he thinks, maybe, Mike, you think of Darcy as a two faced snob? then you can enjoy watching Pride And Prejudice a villians story (you cannot call it a love story now, can you?) of Elizabeth Bennet, A two faced golddigger and The rich Fitzwilliam Darcy, A two faced snob, and after all that, enjoy it very much indeed!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (05:59)", "body": "In a second thought, maybe JA can lecture you better then any of us. So, how about borrowing the book from your sister? I'm sure she won't mind, just read it, from cover to cover, don't miss a word, laugh at JA's jokes and THEN come back and tell us if you still think that Lizzy is a golddigger, ok?"}, {"response": 51, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (06:06)", "body": "Got a funny feeling he's not there anymore ;-)"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (08:32)", "body": "Yep, I think he's had his fun, Johanne...;) Lisa, he he your younger brother, perchance? If so, I understand completely why he's doing this to you...;)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (16:17)", "body": "OK Kali I'll bite. Why did he do this? What do you mean to her. He had nothing to back-up his assertions."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (16:29)", "body": "Someone in the drawing room also suggested that Little Mikey may have been posting to annoy his sister as much as for any other reason. My little bro is only a year younger and in fear of me. He would not have dared such an action."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (21:30)", "body": "Amy: \" My little bro is only a year younger and in fear of me. He would not have dared such an action.\" Good for you Amy! They need to know that their life is hanging by a slim thread and that you are holding the scissors, so they had better not mess with you! Little Brother Managing brought to you by Amy and Cheryl's House of Pain."}, {"response": 56, "author": "jane", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (23:19)", "body": "My little brother, after growing up with 2 big sisters, one of whom did her best to beat him up (until, as Mom predicted, he got bigger than me) is now an obstetrician/gynecologist. Go figure. Jane"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (01:24)", "body": "That's very funny, Jane...just a little bit ironic...don't you think? ;) I threw that annoying-his-sister bit in b/c my own brother did a bit of trolling in the chat room once...;{"}, {"response": 58, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:33)", "body": "You hit the nail right in the head Kali. Mikey is 4 years younger than me and has always loved to annoy me but I must say that he truly enjoyed instigating all of you. He loves to stir up people's emotions and he believed that by calling Lizzie a golddigger everyone's blood would boil and he would get a reaction out of you. Boy was he right! Our whole family has been reading your comments with great enjoyment and interest. Mikey may make a cameo appearance in the chat room tonight so bring out you heavy artillary because tonight will be a no holds barred event! p.s. I hope the html works right!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:01)", "body": "Beautiful HTML, Lisa...how old is Mikey? Maybe he and my brother, Stathi, should make a joint appearance in the chat room someday, just for grins...? ;)"}, {"response": 60, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:27)", "body": "Kali, Mikey turned 20 a couple of months ago. We will try to enter the chat room tonight if everything goes well. Hope to see you there!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:57)", "body": "I think we would do best to completely ignore him."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:21)", "body": "Ann: I think we would do best to completely ignore him. I'm with Ann here...\"leave him alone and he'll go home, dragging his tail behind him.\""}, {"response": 63, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (04:01)", "body": "Poor Mikey! Lisa, My brother is nearly nineteen...I feel for you!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "ayelet", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (08:10)", "body": "Little brothers... My sister could do this to me, if she wasn't addicetd to P&P2 as well as I am."}, {"response": 65, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "Ann and Cheryl, as always am with you... As to : --he believed that by calling Lizzie a golddigger everyone's blood would boil and he would get a reaction out of you-- A constructive comment and similar reaction is always welcomed. The offense, I believe, was rather in the way those comments were performed not the comments themselves. Mutual respect in other peoples opinions is at the base of civilized societies, and we (may I speak for us?) tend to prefer the discussion approach. There are other ways to make you point then by using blunt provocation and with it anarchy prevails. Have'nt our posts been rather specific on this? Lisa, will be looking forward to meeting you in the chat room."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (04:04)", "body": "Yeah, but perhaps Mikey's intent, being the scholar he evidently is, is to EDUCATE us as to the different rhetorical modes available for use in argument! ;) One of my brother's suitemates taped a conversation b/t my brother and another suitemate to illustrate for his linguistics class two types of \"arguers\": both agressive, but one being of the type which steamrolls the opposing speaker without letting him get a word in edgewise, and the otherbeing the type which listens to what the other guy has to say (after which he goes ahead and steamrolls him!)...;) I think that Mikey has, thankfully, utilized the tactics of the latter. It could have been worse!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (04:07)", "body": "Ooops, got cut off! Add: After all, WE have been talking here for months...Mikey is brand new, and has humored our reactions up to a point...;)"}, {"response": 68, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (13:08)", "body": "He reminds me of a writing classmate of mine -- a young man who refused to show up for class; passed every time it was his turn to critique someone else's story; showed up wearing black & slouch hats, etc. I always thought he would outgrow the Angry Young Man phase & evolve into a decent writer (and person) someday."}, {"response": 69, "author": "MikeC", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:17)", "body": "It seems as though you gals can't get enough of me. I had no idea that I was such a dark and gloomy creature from the dead as one of you described me. Yet despite numerous attempts by you all to put an end to my fun, you come up short. I've lost count of how many times I've read \"just leave little Mikey alone, he'll go away soon\"...\"Let's stop talking about him\"...Yet, it's been over a week since I last posted and you are still talking about me as if I was one of your hero's, like Darcy for instance. Just dropped in to say hi."}, {"response": 70, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:39)", "body": "I can't help it, Mikey! As I have my own, dear, obnoxious little brother, I feel obligated to protect you! ;) Oh, and BTW, a week is nothing in Spring-time of late...things have been getting a bit slow around here..."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:39)", "body": "Hi Mike."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "------------------------------------------------------------------------ austen conference | Main Menu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 122 of 190: Mike I live in Boston, Lisa I think Mike is great Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (10:23) | Laura McCarthy (LauraM) I'm not a bruins fan but just wanted you to know that. 26 new of 26 responses total. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 122 of 190 [austen]: Mike I live in Boston, Lisa I think Mike is great Response 1 of 26: Mike Cerulli (MikeC) * Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (11:19) * 1 lines Thank you for creating a thread just for moi. What a complement! Thanks for the show of support Laura, it is greatly appreciated! It's good to KNOW that I have at least one fan out there. Your encouragement is a small step to converting you all to my way (the only way) of thinking! I must admit that I am enjoying myself in Lizzieland. Expect more controversy in the future from me people, I'm not going away for a while... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 122 of 190 [austen]: Mike I live in Boston, Lisa I think Mike is great Response 2 of 26: Catherine Briggs (cat) * Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (11:36) * 3 lines \"...my way (the only way) of thinking...\" Mike, don't you think you are getting a tad self-centered? You have got to remember there are over one hundred of us.....and most of us don't agree with you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 122 of 190 [austen]: Mike I live in Boston, Lisa I think Mike is great Response 3 of 26: Laura McCarthy (LauraM) * Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (12:33) * 1 lines I just want to know how old are you Mike, do you remember Bobby Orr? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 122 of 190 [austen]: Mike I live in Boston, Lisa I think Mike is great Response 4 of 26: Anna (Anna) * Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (16:02) * 5 lines my way (the only way) of thinking I hope you're joking, unfortunately on the evidence to date you take yourself so seriously that I fear not. if I misjudge you I apologise; but be aware that you are giving what I find to be an excellent imitation of a conceited ass ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 122 of 190 [austen]: Mike I live in Boston, Lisa I think Mike is great Response 5 of 26: Mike Cerulli (MikeC) * Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (16:58) * 2 lines I am not one and twenty, therefore I never had the pleasure of watching the greatest hockey player who ever lived play.\"Bruins goal scored by number 4 Bobby Orr!!!!\" Thanks again Laura. I hardly consider myself a conceited ass. The problem with you people is that you love this novel and series so much that you are blind to its weaknesses and faux pas. I am merely trying to get the point across that Lizzie is not a one dimensional person. That like most people in this world she is materialistic and does not walk around with a halo above her head. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 122 of 190 [austen]: Mike I live in Boston, Lisa I think Mike is great Response 6 of 26: Amy (Amy) * Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (17:32) * 5 lines ] I am merely trying to get the point across that Lizzie is not a one dimensional person. ___ Oh. And all this time we thought she was. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 122 of 190 [austen]: Mike I live in Boston, Lisa I think Mike is great Response 7 of 26: Johanne (JohanneD) * Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (20:39) * 1 lines Are entering the Beavis and But-Head timewarp here or what? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 122 of 190 [austen]: Mike I live in Boston, Lisa I think Mike is great Response 8 of 26: Anna (Anna) * Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (20:41) * 14 lines my way (the only way) of thinking! I hardly consider myself a conceited ass. So you were joking, I'm so glad. May I commend the use of emoticons to you? For you are certainly being misunderstood, at least by me. The problem with you people is that you ...are blind to its weaknesses and faux pas. ...Lizzie is not a one dimensional person. I regard the depth of the characters as one of the strengths of the novel (and to a lesser extent the series), rather than a weakness, and I'm sure Jane Austen meant Lizzy to have faults, so this can hardly be regarded as a faux pas... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 122 of 190 [austen]: Mike I live in Boston, Lisa I think Mike is great Response 9 of 26: Johanne (JohanneD) * Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (20:44) * 3 lines ---I am not one and twenty, therefore I never had the pleasure--- 1 pleasure, oooohh and seems so many more ;) Mr. Churchill, paging Mr. Churchill... Where is Mr. Knightley when we need him. Emma will certainly know, but might go overboard. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 122 of 19"}]}, {"num": 77, "subject": "New Year's Resolutions", "response_count": 37, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "summit", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (10:49)", "body": "Oh dear! Judging by the topic title, New Year's Reolutions, my first reSolution must be to check spelling in my entries (and also beg Terry to fix the title here). :-{"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (11:05)", "body": "Done."}, {"response": 3, "author": "summit", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (14:44)", "body": "Terry, you are an angel in disguise, I just know it! OXOXO :-)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (14:45)", "body": "I'm not the only angel in disguise around here. Some have so good disguises you don't even know there at work. New Years resolutions anyone?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (15:37)", "body": "My resolution is not make any resolutions I can't keep. And also to remember to express my gratitude. Thanks to you all for helping 1996 end so nicely. Thanks especially to Amy for bringing us together and to Terry for giving us a place to roost. (I was in the neighborhood and thought it had slipped your mind, Terry)."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (15:54)", "body": "Myretta, I'm really grateful that you're here!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (16:11)", "body": "May I echo Myretta's sentiments. thank you Amy and terry and Kaff for creating this comfortable environment and collecting all these pleasnat people."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "Ditto Myretta's and Katy's feelings. I thank Amy, Terry and Kaff for getting us together and then keeping us together. Not only am I keeping such nice company with all these marvellous people, but I'm also learning more about Jane Austen and computers all the time - and learning how little I know about computers as well as new math. My New Year's resolution is to keep spending as much time as possible with all of you. That is probably the only resolution that won't be broken!;-)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (20:46)", "body": "OK, I have a few to put here: 1. keep improving computer and Net skills 2. visit here daily 3. increase my knowledge of Austen and other Anglo/European writers 4. walk at least 15 min. daily outdoors w/ my family 5. prepare nutritionally better meals w/ family 6. help enhance the spiritual focus in family life 7. do a random act of kindness often 8. practice patience"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (20:52)", "body": ""}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (22:59)", "body": "Don't laugh, some great advice in USA Today's website: Without a plan, making a resolution just because it is New Year's will mean failure for 80% of Americans, say psychologists James Prochaska and John C. Norcross, co-authors of Changing for Good (Avon, $11). The authors, who are also researchers, say about one-quarter (23%) of pledges are broken within a week; 45% within one month; 60% in six months; 81% in two years. To keep resolutions from being thrown out with the paper party hats, Sharma suggests: Create a clear, simple action plan. \"Commit your goals to writing. Attach precise deadlines to them. Review these goals every morning and visualize accomplishing them at least three times a day for five minutes over the first three months or so.\" Start off small. \"Tackling too big a goal at the outset will dampen your motivation and lead to frustration.\" If you want to run a marathon, pledge yourself first to daily walks. Form your own support group. \"Recruit five other people who share your resolution. Then meet once a week to discuss the challenges and the techniques that work.\" Remember the rule of 21. \"It takes 21 days for a new habit to form. Resist the temptation to give up your new diet or exercise routine after a week.\" Make a public pledge. \"No one likes to fail, so telling everyone you know just might put enough pressure on you to make the change for good.\" Reward your successes. Have that special dessert on rare occasions after you have knocked off the weight. \"Soon your subconscious will realize cultivating positive habits is always well-rewarded.\" Use reminders. Post your goals, plus encouraging quotations, in places you'll see them all day - on the dashboard of the car, on the computer at the office. \"They keep you focused and motivated.\" By Karen S. Peterson, USA TODAY"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (23:03)", "body": "I resolve... To Stop Making New Year's Resolutions"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (01:16)", "body": "Anna: \"I resolve...To Stop Making New Year's Resolutions Oh, Anna, off the wagon already! ;-)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (03:54)", "body": "Late this evening in The Pemberley Drawing Room Rebecca and I pondered what New Year's resolutions our dear P&P characters would make and humbly submit the following: Lizzy: I resolve to practice the pianoforte, refrain from slapping Miss Bingley, and to try to not tease my dear husband too much. Darcy: I shall endeavour to curtail my pride, allow my wife to liven up my character, bath as much as possible and to indulge my dear wife's wishes by taking many dips in the pond. Jane: I shall try to be the best wife possible and to make my husband happy with a blessed event. Bingley: I promise to make the world a better place with my good aquaintance, and make my lovely wife as joyous as possible. Mrs. Bennet: To get Kitty and Mary married off to men who have twice the fortune of Bingley or Darcy, and not allow my husband to vex me any longer, and use smelling salts as little as possible. Mr. Bennet: I shall remain in my library for a minumum of 16 hours a day, leaving only long enough to eat and vex Mrs. Bennet! Mary: I will improve my exhibiting in public by mastering the pianoforte, improving my singing and reading as many novels as possible. Kitty: I promise to find myself a regimented solider to call my own, and to visit Brighton as often as I wish. Charlotte Lucas: I will read, and embroider as much as possible, and urge my husband to visit nature and get exercise as much as possible. Mr. Collins: I shall endeavour to demean and abase myself in all manner of new and inventive ways so as to procure the admirable condescension of my noble patroness, the Lady Catherine de Bourgh. Lydia: I resolve to not flirt as much with the officers as I am a married woman! Wickam: I promise to keep myself occupied as much as possible with activites that do not include my young wife. Mrs. Hurst: I plan to relieve myself of the country peasant life, and shop as much as possible in the London boutiques. Mr. Hurst: I promise I will sleep less than 12 hours a day, and will avoid consuming vast amounts of port. Caroline--I shall procure a husband this year who is at least twice as handsome and three times as rich as Mr. Darcy, for that will show him! Mr. Gardiner: I shall make time to get away from my business to fish and rescue lost nieces. Mrs. Gardiner: I resolve to visit my niece at Pemberley so that she may take me all around the park in a low phaeton, with a nice little pair of ponies. Georgianna: I shall practice the pianoforte diligently, try to overcome my shyness and spend a great deal of time with my new sister. Sir William Lucas: I resolve to attend assemblies at St. James' Court as often as I am able, and to host many balls! Maria--I shall endeavour to not be afraid of Lady Catherine and to persuade my parents to let me come \"out\" this year. Lady Catherine de Bourgh: I need to make no resolutions for I am perfectly fine as I am...however, I shall resolve to avoid the polluted shades of Pemberley forever! Anne de Bourgh: I resolve to go as unnoticed by my mother as is possible. Col. Fitzwilliam: I shall strive to find a good, pleasant, lively wife who has a fortune of not less than 30,000 pounds. Hill: I shall not gossip to other servants about anything having to do with nerves, smelling salts, elopements, intrigues, or seductions. Mr. Forester: I promise not to invite any more girls to visit my wife in Brighton."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (04:33)", "body": "ROFL Oh, Anna, off the wagon already! ;-) I was never on it; I avoid making promises I won't keep, especially to myself Oh Ann! what have you done!!!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (04:34)", "body": "ROFL Oh, Anna, off the wagon already! ;-) I was never on it; I avoid making promises I won't keep, especially to myself Oh Ann! what have you done!!!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (04:35)", "body": "more to the point - what have I done..."}, {"response": 18, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (09:04)", "body": "Cheryl, very nice indeed. I am laughing so hard. L CdB does not need any New Years resolutions. How very Very. But I wish Darcy had taken more dips in the pond so I could be happy. PS: Lets read and rent Persuasion, let me know!!!!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "mrcollins10", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (11:17)", "body": "Re-read JA's works. Learn more about everyday life in Regency England. Find out the name of JA's secret/tragic lover. {The \"Persuasion\" lover.} Post and chat same to all you good Austen people. Learn country dance. Learn how to transmit graphics on this conferance. How is that done, Amy, Amy/Henry? Very nice!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (13:26)", "body": "I resolve to proFead more thorougjly BEFORE pressing the \"Submit\" button...."}, {"response": 21, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (13:36)", "body": "Caroline, I think that is a good one Idneed."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (14:58)", "body": "] Learn how to transmit graphics on this conferance. How is that done, Amy, Amy/Henry? Very nice! ___ Carl, thanks for the suggestion. Our little Help Angel, Ann, explains how to put up a graphic in her basic HTML tutorial: http://www.spring.com/~anneh/tagsaaaa.html#smiley which is now also linked from the main Austen conference page here. The instructions apply to pictures already up on the web somewhere. If you want to keep your pictures here, talk to Terry -- terry@spring.com. Or if you have a graphic with a *.gif or *.jpg extension, email it to me and I can put it up for you."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "re 15/116: Sorry! ;-)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (20:08)", "body": "Re all resolutions - I'll quote Mr. Bingly: \"I think........\""}, {"response": 25, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (08:51)", "body": ""}, {"response": 26, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (09:47)", "body": "------------------------------------------------------------------------ Topic 116 of 121 [austen]: New Year's Resolutions Response 25 of 25: Caroline Evans (Carolineevans) * Fri, Jan 3, 1997 (08:51) * 1 lines ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Caroline, our lists are identical!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (22:27)", "body": "116:9 May I borrow yours France, it's EXACTLY what I need 166:10 and will read our Lizzy's resolution three times a day as mantra's."}, {"response": 28, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:19)", "body": "I resolve to put more use of humor (ironic, punny, silly, all kinds) into my daily life, especially when it is evident those around me need a lift. Conversely, I resolve to treat with serious respect any troubles dear ones and others mention to me, if they really look distressed beyond comic relief. Basically, I need to time things appropriately! :-}"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:22)", "body": "You've brightened up my day more than a few times, Cecily."}, {"response": 30, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:29)", "body": "I resolve to put more use of humor (ironic, punny, silly, all kinds) into my daily life, especially when it is evident those around me need a lift. Conversely, I resolve to treat with serious respect any troubles dear ones and others mention to me, if they really look distressed beyond comic relief. Basically, I need to time things appropriately! :-}"}, {"response": 31, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:33)", "body": "DON'T ANYBODY SAY IT! I will: Basically, I need to time things appropriately! :-} AAAAAHHHHHH.........@#$%^&*"}, {"response": 32, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (04:19)", "body": "I resolve to to read all topics before I create any silly topics! Thanks Joan for saving my bacon this time!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (04:59)", "body": "Thank you , Ian for the opportunity to try out my newly acquired geek skill. :-)"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "What did you do, Joan?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (15:55)", "body": "Joan used her POWER!! ;-)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (17:47)", "body": "I \"killed\" his accidental topic - and miraculously it disappeared completely. Most gratifying! :-)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (01:04)", "body": "Ya know, I'd forgotten all about the New Year's Resolution thing...for next year, I resolve to remember, and to prepare my plans in advance... austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 79, "subject": "EMMA", "response_count": 22, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (19:58)", "body": "Yay!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (09:39)", "body": "Acually with all the preview I have been seeing the Mr Knightley has been growing on closer aquaintance. He does not seem all bad, indeed, I like him, I like him very well. He has no improper pride. I love him with all my heart. Oh sorry, there I go again talking like Lizzy, I keep forgetting he is NOT Mr Darcy."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (13:36)", "body": "''I keep forgetting he is NOT Mr Darcy.'' LauraM, what I think we keep forgetting is that we are NOT Lizzy!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (14:06)", "body": "Mari, Of course you are right, but please don't ever remind us again. I'm off to take a walk by the buttercups near my pond now, and after that I will sing an aria beautifully. I hope the cook does a nice job with the birds my dear husband shot this morning. . Jane"}, {"response": 5, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (09:08)", "body": "But I want to be like Lizzy, (think of Lydia whining I want to go to Brighton!), caught a little bit of BACKBEAT last night and Jennifer Ehle plays Cynthia Lennon. Not bad, though her role was just about non existant. She is quite cute. And she looks amazingly like her mother."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "We're all Lizzy to a certain extent...insomuch as we are witnesses to the comic horrors of life. As long as there are morons in the world, there will be Lizzies to suffer through their follies! ;) Have you guys analyzed your personality types in terms of Austen characters? There may be one or two of which you most resemble, but on closer examination, you'll discover yourself to be a composite of many!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "MSO", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "If anyone is interested A&E is now selling their version of Emma."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (21:12)", "body": "Mitch: \"If anyone is interested A&E is now selling their version of Emma.\" What?! Before it's been shown on TV? I am all astonishment!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (23:01)", "body": "for $29.95 smackeroos. Amazing isn't it."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (23:46)", "body": "Will they ship it now?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "Thirty bucks? Not too bad, really...hey Cheryl, wanna buy me a present? ;) [Just Kidding, Dearest Auntie...]"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:16)", "body": "Critic's Choice Video is selling the Andrew Davies Emma for $14.77 (Tel. 800-367-7765; the order # is ADANEO16081). They also have all the other Austen adaptations including the BBC stuff from the 70s and 80s, and a number of CF's films. Incidentally, the new Emma is listed as being 100 minutes long, which seems like it's even shorter than the Paltrow version."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "I forgot to say that Critic's Choice won't ship Emma until Feb. 17."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Karen", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (22:15)", "body": "Has anyone read or heard why these two versions of Emma were made and released so close? Is it similar to the Dangerous Liasions/Valmont situation? If someone has any info I would be grateful."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (02:40)", "body": "Karen: Has anyone read or heard why these two versions of Emma were made and released so close? It is supposed to be the greatest coincidence. Sue Bristlewaite has said that if she knew the Paltrow Emma was in the works she wouldn't have done her version of Emma. I for one am grateful. Her ignorance is our bliss! ;-)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (00:28)", "body": "Thanks, Cheryl."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (08:10)", "body": "I found this article online somewhere. It was one of those very long URLs and I thought it was easier just to copy the article here. JANE AUSTEN & `EMMA' -- WOMEN FOR ALL SEASONS By Nancy Jalasca Randle Twenty-three-year-old Kate Beckinsale had little trouble relating to her character, Jane Austen's beloved headstrong heroine, for A&E's ``Emma'' (which premiers Feb. 16). Photo by Neil Genower. (c) 1997, A&E Last year 3.7 million viewers watched ``Pride and Prejudice,'' making it the highest-rated program in A&E's 12-year history. In England, episodes regularly boasted audiences of more than 11 million. The program won multiple awards, including Best of Festival at Canada's Banff Film Festival. TV Guide and Time magazine both picked it for their 1996 best-of-television lists. Now comes Jane Austen's ``Emma'' (Feb. 16 on A&E), a poignant comedy/drama co-created by the ``Pride and Prejudice'' team: writer Andrew Davies (``Moll Flanders'') and producer Sue Birtwistle (``Hotel du Lac''). Kate Beckinsale (``Cold Comfort Farm'') plays the title role of Emma Woodhouse, and Mark Strong (``Fever Pitch'') gives an inspired performance as romantic hero Mr. Knightley. Birtwistle spent eight years finding a home for ``Pride and Prejudice.'' A place for ``Emma'' came much more readily. The triumph of the miniseries combined with the box office success of the award-winning feature film adaptations of ``Sense and Sensibility,'' ``Emma,'' ``Persuasion'' and ``Clueless'' made the producer's television film ``my easiest sell ever.'' Worldwide the Jane Austen phenomenon just keeps growing: Contemporary audiences are falling in love with the author who signed her first book, ``By a Lady,'' more than 200 years ago. After ``Pride and Prejudice'' aired, thousands of letters poured in to Birtwistle from people of all nationalities, professions and ages. Epistles are still arriving. Some enthusiasts send follow-up notes, complete with photos, to keep the producer abreast of family developments -- like their daughter's ``Pride and Prejudice'' wedding. Norway and Sweden have mounted large Jane Austen exhibitions. This Austen mania simply proves what devotees like Birtwistle always knew: Austen's sensibility is timeless. ``Austen asks the big questions,'' the producer observes. ``She asks, `How are we going to live our lives?' '' The writer's universal subject matter -- love, marriage, social climbing, money, power -- and her psychological and emotional perceptions are as valid now as they were in Austen's age. ``If she were just writing chocolate-candy-box, ribbon-tied romances between perfect people, we wouldn't be watching them today,'' actor Strong says. What is it about Austen's stories that make them as relevant in 1997 as they were the day she wrote them? In a recent issue of Vanity Fair, Laura Jacobs proposed that Austen is in tune with society's prevailing mantra: Knowledge is power. This is most true in her ``Emma,'' in which self-knowledge liberates the heroine, transforming her from a young girl into a woman and bringing her love. ``Emma is about the education of a young girl,'' Strong says. ``I think in Jane Austen's mind Knightley is a possible teacher for her. His rebukes are designed to give her knowledge about the way her society works and make her a better person. The characters who do not have self-knowledge -- like the Eltons -- are given their comeuppance.'' All of Austen's main characters share this satisfying pattern of eventually coming to their senses. Birtwistle points out that all the people we identify with end up having learned something about themselves and the world and accepting it. They're not fully matured, but you know they've moved forward. And yet, Austen never paints them with a single stroke. It is the flaws of her characters that engage us as much as their ability to mature. Their shortcomings mirror our own imperfections. Emma's acts of folly humanize her and allow us to put ourselves in her shoes. ``That too,'' Strong says, ``is what makes Jane Austen's books endearing over such a long period of time. It is just as true now as it ever was.'' Twenty-three-year-old Beckinsale found she could ``easily see eye-to-eye'' with the headstrong heroine she portrays. The actress is representative of contemporary women who see themselves in Austen's willful protagonists. ``I think Emma and Lizzy Bennet are both incredibly strong,'' Birtwistle says. ``These women are not afraid to be brighter than the men ... or as strong. Quite often Emma gets it wrong, but she certainly does it with energy and courage. She won't be put down by anybody. And Lizzy, she's completely uncompromising. Those girls have no money. Unless one of them marries well, they'll be destitute when their father dies. And yet, she turns down the richest man in Derbyshire because at that point she thinks she hates him.'' ``And they have this huge energy,'' she continues. ``Andrew Davies says this is the nearest Jane Austen can get to describin"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (13:42)", "body": "Excellent article. I would like to add an observation of my own; Austen's heroes and heroines are NOT politically correct. They judge people. They judge their own actions by principles that they have internalized. They act and react to others based on their judgement of these people, gathered through observation of the actions and values espoused by these others. They are sometimes wrong in drawing the conclusion that they have reached, and have to revise it, but Austen clearly expects them to contin e to judge and refine these judgements about everyone in their world, and make life decisions based on these judgements. She does not respect those that act and live without reference to their own internal values. This is to me part of the appeal; that we have to have the courage to make these decisions, which in today's world is not popular. The larger world that we inhabit acts very much like the London society that was so disapproved of in Mansfield Park; if you learn to act well you have been taugh well, no matter that there is no value behind your actions. Discussion? Talk amongst yourselves...."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (14:54)", "body": "Mari: Discussion? Talk amongst yourselves.... Mari, your review was like buttah! ;-)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (16:59)", "body": "What a nice image: Darcy (Firth) and Knightly (Strong) sitting down for a chat about why women like them so much. That would have been an interesting conversation to hear. I wonder if Firth warned Strong about the dangers of playing an Austen hero--instantly becoming tabloid fodder."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "Mari - I heartily agree with you regarding JA characters judging people in order to determine the character of others. It is true that it is not a popular sentiment today. I know people sometimes act in ways that are inconsistent with their morals but over a period of time actions do reflect your belief systems."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Pearl", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "I really liked the 1972 version (on two tapes) of EMMA better than the latest one. For some reason, I found Mr. Knightly very appealing even though he was not as handsome (or as young) as Mark Strong. Also, Miss Bates, Mr. Woodhouse Mr. Elton and Augusta were much more in character. Of course, the newer version was slightly more than half as long, so there was much less time to develop the characters. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 8, "subject": "New P&P2 Scenes", "response_count": 399, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (09:58)", "body": "Cecily, shall we put in a link to the FoF site for ideas or start this fresh all on our own?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (10:11)", "body": "\"My dear Charlotte, we shall be late to Rosings for the holiday supper!\" cried Mr Collins as he tore his sleeve on the hat rack peg while reaching for his black frisbee/clergyman's hat. If I can just keep this wrist out of sight so one will see the awful gash in my sleeve he thought to himself as they hurried into the lane. To his dismay they were late: Lady Catherine glared like Medusa as they entered but merely sniffed, since her attention was more taken up with the horror of Mr/Mrs Wick am's noisy arrival, uninvited. \"Lord, I'm so hungry!\" shrieked Lydia, bouncing towards the banquet room and piling ham, pork, and everything good on her plate. The Bennet family had arrived some time earlier, so that Mrs Bennet could have a good look at all the silver, paintings, and rooms of prodigious size so often acclaimed by Mr Collins."}, {"response": 3, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (10:14)", "body": "Amy- Link to FoF would be nice. Would you? Now back to my scene, where I inadvertantly hit the Submit Response button midway through..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (10:41)", "body": "cont'd. TITLE: P&P2 Revisited, Or Pilgrims' Progress ...Mr Bennet had found his way to the library, where he was quaffing a litre of ale and chuckling to himself over the latest TATLER featuring a very strange article indeed written by his new Pemberley son-in-law, about the hazards of overfishing one's pond by inviting too many Gardiners, Ians, and other rowdy male anglers for a spot of fishing. Mary and Kitty, meanwhile, had located the piano in Mrs Jenkins room where they were engaged in rehearsing a really rousing rendition of \"Will you no come back again?\", an old Scottish air, in memory of the Meryton regiment. Mrs Bennet passed them on her way down from the attic, where she had counted no less than eleven trunks filled with Lady Catherine's old ballroom finery and a few childish sketches by Anne, and she reminded the girls to go to the banquet room before Lydia demolished everything in sig t. In the hallway she encountered Lizzie and Darcy, Jane and Bingley, Bingley's sisters and Mr. Hurst, all smiling tightly at Lady Catherine's tense greeting. Charlotte rescued Lizzie and Darcy with a tactful request that they follow her into the garden to see the new Christmas tree farm her husband had planted. Mr Collins also took Jane and Bingley under his wing (he was now hiding his torn sleeve by walking about like Napoleon with his hand in his vest) and led them towards the banquet room. A sorry sig t greeted them: Lydia and Wickhanm were seated by the fire, stuffing each other with creampuffs, and their places at the table looked like a Scout troop had just left Macdonalds. As Jane and Bingley hurriedly cleared the mess, Mr Collins sermonized the guilty pair on the dangers of gluttony. The dinner gong rang for everyone to go to the banquet room. Darcy rolled his eyes in irritation as Caroline surged forward to claim one arm and his aunt the other arm. Lizzie merely smirked at the two ladies as they all swept in. (this can be a continuation story, if anyone wants to take it from this point)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "fen", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (15:37)", "body": "OK. \"A blessing, please, Mr. Collins,\" said Lady Catherine imperiously. Forgetting his sleeve, Mr. Collins folded his hands in full view and began. Charlotte, who always had her sewing kit in her pocket, quietly stitched as he prayed, eyes clsed. \"The goose looks very well,\" said Mrs. Bennet heartily with her mouth full of bread. \"I don't suppose he looks as well as he used to,\" murmured Lizzie to Jane, who giggled behind her napkin. Darcy, sighing over his wife's continued teasing habit, stared manfully ahead as Caroline played footsie with him under the table. (God, when will she ever give up? he thought) Bingley tried to affect a diversion by talking about the baby he and Jane were expecting in 6 months. It worked partly since all the Bennet women began cooing about baby clothes and nannies. Mary, however, added her two cents about quality daycare versus Fordyce's sermon #32 about biblical motherhood models. It was enough to drive Mrs. Hurst to another speedy rendition on the grand piano as Lydia egan drunkenly to announce that she'd rather be fat than pregnant anyday. As Lizzie walked with her father towards the dessert table, Caroline seized the moment to ask Darcy how his own marriage was going. \"Swimmingly,\" he replied shortly, deliberately trodding on her foot as he stood up anmd abruptly left. A scream from the hallway sent them all running, only to find that..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (11:19)", "body": "{This thread is like a picnic chapter in Little Women where all the picnickers tell the next part of the ongoing story. Sharp detours are permitted in the plot and style there, and I hope here.) ...a lion escaped from a traveling circus was entering the front door and snarling at the housekeeper. The women turned pale and ran back into the banquet room; the men began shouting orders and encouragement to one another. Bingley grabbed a cane from the stand, as did Wickham, and gingerly walked toward the lion, yelling nonsense to scare it out again. Mr. Bennet, coffee cup in hand, quietly quipped, \"You'll get a good scalding if you come too close\" to the beast. Mr. Collins, perched on the stair b nnister, quoted Daniel in the Lions Den as a supportive measure to the other men. Of course it was Mr. Darcy who saved the day. Having taken the ham shank from the table, he strode by the lion to the door, fixed its eyes in a Crocodile Dundee staredown, then threw the ham onto the lawn with a firm \"Go!\" The lion naturally obeyed, knowing a superior being when he saw one. Closing the door, Darcy next swiftly got Wickham to ride the backway to get the circus owners with their net. (If he doesn't get himself killed, it will be the one noble thing he's ever done, thought Darcy.) He th n loped back to the admiring gaze of every female in the room (those thighs, thought Caroline; that's my DD- Darcy Delight- thought Lizzie). c'mon it's your turn now; don't be shy...start a new one if you like...;-)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (15:03)", "body": "Bingley smiled broadly at Darcy. \"Excellent, excellent\" he said warmly. \"Do I have your blessing then?\" asked Darcy. \"Do you feel you need it?\" asked Bingley. \"Yes, my dear Charles. well, maybe I actually need a glass of wine instead.\" said Darcy. He collapsed into a chair. \"This is most vexing, indeed.\" said Lady C. \"You know I do not allow wild animals at Rosings, Darcy. I told you what would happen if you married so far beneath your station. Now dinner is ruined and the carpets are in shreds.\" \"My dear aunt, surely you do not blame Elizabeth for this fiasco.\" \"I most certainly do. Elizabeth is always out-of-doors. Lions are always out-of-doors. And she was born in August. I told you you were thinking with your loins instead of your head.\" \"Loins\" repeated Elizabeth and Darcy together with their eyes locked. They left the room together. Lady Catherine fainted. Mr. Bennett ROTFLOL'd."}, {"response": 8, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Nov 29, 1996 (21:35)", "body": "applause sounds from audience and thanks from the originator to brave participants above! Let's try something new. Fill in as much/little as you want then quit and next person can pick it up. (copy & paste or ...) NEW SCENE #2 TITLE=?... SETTING=?... SITUATION=?... 1st CHARACTER=?...and dialogue line(s)... OTHER CHARACTER(S)... and line(s)... as many as you want"}, {"response": 9, "author": "fen", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (10:58)", "body": "NEW SCENE #2 TITLE=? P&P2 Addicts In Darcyland SETTING=? Netherfield Ball, initially SITUATION=? Addicts mingling gleefully with original inhabitants 1st CHARACTER=? Jake (walking up to greeting line)\"I say, Miss Bingley, how good of your brother to invite our tour group to this ball. Delighted to meet you.\" Caroline : (eyes lighting up) \"Oh, how I long to see new men, sorry, friends, of my brother. And you are disposed to dance, I trust?\" \"Even savages from America can dance, so may I have the honor at the quadrille?\" (bowing hastily as I spot Lizzie across the room; I have to reach her before Darcy does; thank God I have my Wickham costume on) (bumping into Mrs. Bennet) Mrs. Bennet : Good evening, sir, may I introduce you to my daughter Mary? Mary, step lively, girl. She is a good sort of girl, but never one to push herself forward in a public situation.\" \"I think that is most commendable, particularly in regard to piano playing and singing at strange houses.\" (trying to stop her later exhibition) \"And how much do you have a year? That is to say, how do you like to spend your money, uh, time?\" (seeing Lizzie heading for Charlotte so time is short)\"Pray excuse me, madam, there is a pressing matter I must attend to.\" (observing Katy, Cheryl, Amy, Kim, Candace, Leslie, and other addicts all heading for Darcy, I slow my gait and stroll to Lizzie and Charlotte) OTHER ADDICTS/CHARACTER(S)=?..."}, {"response": 10, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (11:43)", "body": "Scene: the anti-room at Pemberly. characters: Mrs. Reynolds, Katy, several other ladies from the party who prefer not to be named. Katy: Mrs. Reynolds, we are need of your assistance. Reynolds: How may I be of help, ma'am. Unidentified lady #1: We are thinking that since you and our host and hostess and their friends have not aged in nearly 200 years, that it might be reasonable of us to expect to have a few decades taken off our appearance. Katy: Mr. and Mrs. Darcy are still in their twenties. Cannot we have the same advantage? Reynolds: Ah, ladies. Your tour guide did not explain this to you? That has already been taken care of. If you will look in the mirror, you will see for yourselves. Unidentified lady #3: Ah, my kind of tour! Unidentified lady #2: And clothing? None of my own clothes will fit now. Katy: Yes, what a pity. I was so looking forward to meeting Mr. Darcy in my size 20 jeans. Reynolds: Step this way, ladies. I have a large assortment of gowns for you to chose from. The ladies chatter happily: \"Oh have you ever? ...\" \"I want the blue\" \"So much cleavage...\" \"I have a waist again...\" Reynolds allows the ladies to enjoy the sensation of feeling young and pretty while getting ready for a ball for a few minutes. Reynolds: Ladies, if you will step this way. The ladies enter the ballroom. Darcy is seen near a fountain chatting with Candace and Cheryl. All the ladies move towards fountain wondering if good manners requires them to prevent Candace from accidentily bumping into Darcy and causing him to fall into the fountain. Katy, however, seems to be moving in a different direction. Katy: I bet Mr. Wickham knows how to show a rich American girl a good time. I must concentrate on looking rich. (exit stage left)"}, {"response": 11, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (17:21)", "body": "I must applaud you all while I have the chance during this short intermission. No, STANDING OVATION!!!!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (22:07)", "body": "Scene: Darcy, Candace and Cheryl at the fountain Cheryl: So Mr. Darcy, I do not recall there being an indoor fountain at Pemberley? Darcy: Yes, it is a recent addition. I much prefer the pond when I feel the need to be wet, but this is winter after all...snow...ice...it can be difficult, you see. Candace: (shakily) Oh yes, I do see! Cheryl: And how often do you partake of a quick dip in the fountain? Candace: (eagerly) Yes, how often?! Darcy: Most every evening, but I shall abstain this evening, due the ball and also since I gave my valet the rest of the evening off and so would have no one to help me change. Candace immediately and \"accidently\" trips, falling onto Mr. Darcy, causing him to lose his balance, tumbling backwards into the fountain. Candace: Oh Mr. Darcy! I am so sorry, I do not know how that happened... Her voice trails off as Mr. Darcy slowly rises, dripping from the fountain. Kali and Rebecca have acted quickly, closing the doors to the fountain room, in in the hope of being rewarded with a bit of wet clothing. Cheryl: Mr. Darcy, pray, let us be of assistance to you, which is the way to your rooms? Candace: (whispered under her breath) Oh my... Darcy: This is highly irregular, ladies! Cheryl: But sir, the fault was ours and so must the remedy be. Darcy: That is a very convincing argument. Well, if you insist... Candace: (quivering) Oh, yes, we do insist. Cheryl: Indeed! Th eparty exits up the stairs..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Dec  1, 1996 (15:44)", "body": "I am impatiently waiting for the next installemnt on this page. Meantime I have been surfing around at the Friends of Firth site and looking at the creative writing collection I will tempt you with this excerpt from a contribution titled THE KISS: THE SCENE: It is the the last day of Filming Pride & Prejudice. Simon Langton the Director has been having problems getting the lighting exactly right in \"The Kiss Scene\" and calls Colin back to the set for a series of retakes. Jennifer Ehle isn't needed for the scene (it's my fantasy and I say she's not needed) so I, her body double will take her place. You will probably also LOL over Pride and Prejudice - The Uncut Tape Number Seven I am having trouble getting Yapp software to accept this note - it does not like my html code at all."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (04:27)", "body": "Cheryl, are Rebecca and I included in the \"upstairs\" party? ;) - K"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (13:46)", "body": "I've finally caught up - but I didn't have the scenario completely wrong Cheryl! After all, mouth-to-mouth and loosening clothes indicates an emergency - I still say you should have gone for the dry clothes. The scenarios above are much more entertaining than the FoF ones - I enjoyed them."}, {"response": 16, "author": "panache", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (14:56)", "body": "The authors of the assorted scripts so far thank you for your kind regard, and doubtless are at work on others, which may appear anytime (now that spring.com is \"flowing again\" --thank you and birthday greetings, Terry, from another Decemberite!) We happily welcome any other \"freelance\" playwrights at any time here :-)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "fen", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (17:49)", "body": "I do intend another scene (scenette?) at some stage (virtual), but my work invites me elsewhere for the nonce. \"Most urgent business,\" as Darcy would say. (The thought of Elizabeth waiting for me in the wings is very inspiring, though, I must admit.)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Dec  3, 1996 (20:02)", "body": "As Katy approached Mr. and Mrs. Wickham, Lydia's eyes sparkeld with excitment. \"Another rich American woman looking for George.\" she thought. \"Maybe this one will get us out of here into another country where Wickham can make his fortune.\" The Wickhams were were seldom part of the grand entertainment in the big house, but every month or two an adventerous guest found them out. Lydia tried to appraise the young woman in front of her. \"Wonder how rich she is? I have seen the dress before so she obviously did not bring a gown for the occassion. But Americans seem to travel light,\" she sniffed. No borrowed gowns for her, unless they were Lizzy's. George was busy adjusting his thoughts, trying to decide how much the American was good for and what she wanted from him. \"It is a pleasure to meet you,\" he said slickly. \"Not many guests come back to the lower guest lodge below the upper guest lodge below the below the guest castle. How did you find us?\" \"Oh, they told me just to go a low as I could go, and I would find you both. And here you are.\" \"And to what do we own the honor of this visit?\" \"The crowd in the big house is so boring and silly. Someone pushed Mr. Darcy into that ridiculous fountain. A group of ladies is in the sitting room arguing about Mrs. Collins and why she married the preacher. Lady Catherine is sleeping on her throne. Mrs. Darcy is reading a book hoping we all go away. She gets more like her father with every visit!\" Katy was a little nervous and chatted on and on. \"I was really hoping for a little fun. You know, wine out of bottles instead of tiny tiny glasses. And real food instead of those trays of crackers. And real music. Do you have a radio or cd player out here. Could we listen to some rock and roll and get drunk and tell lies together!\" she added breathlessly. \"My kind of girl,\" thought Wickham as he put his arm around her narrow waist. \"Is that your real waist or did it come with the tour?\" he asked. \"Does it matter?\", Katy asked. \"It's mine for the moment.\" \"Of course not,\" declared Wickham who no longer excepted passage to America for his trouble, and therefore did not really care what this girl would look like when the tour was over. A small loan would suffice - and a little admiration. \"Let's dance! Lydia, put on some music for us.\" \"Wickham is a great dancer. He does everything well, if you know what I mean,\" Lydia said as she rummaged around looking for the cd player and an electric socket. \"He is mine, but you can borrow him for a few hours if you like.\" Wickham handed Katy an open bottle of Thunderbird and they began to dance. Suddenly the door burst open and .........."}, {"response": 19, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (05:48)", "body": ".... and Amy marched into the room. \"Mom!\" exclaimed Katy. \"How did you find me?\" \"That pretty girl is your mother?\" asked Wickham, a little confused but sure the mother would have more pin money than the daughter. \"Katy, you must rejoin the tour group at once. Mrs. Reynolds told me they would ask us all to leave if you did not. Apparently American girls have gotten the Wickhams all stirred up before. Mrs. Wickham punched one woman's lights out, and she has been known to pull out hair by the handful.\" \"Lydia seems quite cordial to me,\" replied Katy. \"She is not drunk yet, Katy. And it seems that when Mr. Wickham realizes that his rich American girls are really middle-aged woman traveling on maxed out Visa cards, he flies into a rage that lasts longer than the hangover you are going to have if you actually drink that cheap wine. They have been through this so many times they should know better, but some people never learn from experience!\" Amy continued to glare at Katy until the wine bottle had given up, the shoes put back on, and the sulky Katy (for apparently emotional maturity had been erased with the physical maturity in Mrs. Reynold's dressing room) seemed ready to to comply. The Wickhams looked disappointed. No matter how it turned out in the end, a party was better than no attention from anyone. \"Amy, how come you are still acting wise and mature?\" asked Katy as they headed back up the long flight of steps to the main house. \"I feel as silly as a school girl.\" \"I was wise and mature when I was a school girl,\" replied Amy. \"Besides I need you help with Candace and Cheryl and Mr. Darcy. Your bit a foolishness has been tried before, but the whole house is stunned by this unique situation. No one is even sure where the indoor fountain came from. And the upstairs maids, when they saw Mr. Darcy soaking wet, all fainted dead away.\""}, {"response": 20, "author": "candace", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (02:42)", "body": "As they entered the drawing room, they were amazed at the sight before them. Mr. Darcy was pacing. He moved from the door to the fireplace, from the fireplace to a chair. Sat down, got up. He finally turned quite suddening and with piercing eyes shouted at Elizabeth \"How could you have invited them all here? Must the shades of Pemberly be thus poluted with such visitors? They are all such a class beneath us! The married women come without their husbands, the single women will never marry well, and he men they bring with them! Such men who find themselves comfortable with such obstinate headstrong girls! They must all leave at once -- and never return!\" Elizabeth rose to her feet quite slowly and meeting his gaze calmly, but with passion exclaimed \"In such cases as this, I believe, the established mode to express a sense of obligation to one's husband, but I cannot. Your manners are impressing me with the fullest belief of your arrogance, again.\" Her voice then softened, \"Do you not see, my honey-butt, Since their BB died, their chats have been entailed away. They have nowhere to go. It could have been me.\" Darcy's eyes were stunned quite like that of a deer caught in someone's headlights. He bowed his head, drew his hand near his mouth and quietly said \"You are absolutely right. What have they said that I did not deserve? They have seen me at my best and my worst, dry and wet, left and right, and still they love me. They have analyzed every scene, and still watch ignoring the imperfections and inconsistancies. They discuss the symbolism, the morality, and even the dagginess. They are the true believer of our love. Nothing shall be done that I do not do myself. I will always make the drawing room available to them so that they may chat long into the wee hours of the night. They may go down to the spring near my lake at any time. There they can write essays and dig deeper into our souls. I will have my carpenters consult with Amy, so that they may finally have a home of their own.\" Mr. Darcy turning 'round exclaimed \"Everyone is to stay the night, you may sleep where you like.\" Everyone found their favorite spot among which Cheryl curled up under the pianoforte, Kali went to the library to lay amonst the law books, and of course Candace retired to the bath tub."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (03:08)", "body": "Brava, Candace! Very, very nicely done! I am proud to know you!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (13:25)", "body": "I enjoyed."}, {"response": 23, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (18:40)", "body": "Candace - I loved it."}, {"response": 24, "author": "fen", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (07:24)", "body": "Miss Candace: It shows great presence of mind. Congratulations."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (14:22)", "body": "I went ROTFLOL over the entire thread! Marvelous!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "cat", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (18:42)", "body": "Very nicely done Candace!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (20:25)", "body": "Candace, it was wunderbar ! BUT my question is, did you type it extemporare hot on the keyboard? Or was it the product of reflection and offline writing first? Either way, marvelous, (though I foresee my new topic thread due to it: \"This little matter of our addiction\"...what does it say about each of us?)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (22:49)", "body": "\"'This little matter of our addiction' ..what does it say about each of us?\" It says that we are a very merry party indeed!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (22:25)", "body": "Scene: O Tidings of Comfort and Joy It had been one of those days when Darcy wished he'd been born Wickham: his aunt Catherine had sent him a letter of such length and threats about Miss Elizabeth as to stir his indignation and desire. He moodily rose from his favorite green armchair and went to the fireplace to stir the embers and his own feelings into a blaze. If only Elizabeth didn't look so well in her muslin, I might never have noticed her bewitching eyes above, he thought. If my aunt won't approve of a marriage with her, I wish I were George enough to simply steal her away and enjoy her fiery spirit in an elegant little hideaway. The thought shocked him: he, sink as low as devil-may-care Wickham? Never! Still, the scoundrel had a certain slick charm that captivated the ladies, whereas he...well, except for Caroline they seemed to think ill of him. He dragged himself upstairs to his room, disrobed, and stared at the mirror. No sense of adventure or humor, he mulled, and then it hit him--- a risky but game way to prove himself to his love. It was Christmas Eve; he would prepare and then ride to Longbourne, asking to see Lizzie by way of the kitchen help; a little tip to the staff there would suffice. He smiled grimly (as only a man desperately in love can), then set to work. At dusk he rode, humming the Netherfield dance tunes to buck up his courage. At eight he arrived at the back of the Bennet house, quietly dismounted and strode up to the door, knocking. An obliging cook smilingly vowed to get the young lady, and Darcy waited, assuring himself with sheer bluster that Lizzie would like the new Darcy as much as that old Wickham. A moment later, an astonished Lizzie appeared in the doorway. \"I had not thought...that is to say,\" she bit her lip in confusion and secret deli ht at his visit. \"I come to bring you tidings of comfort and joy, and a look at the new me,\" he began. \"This is on the recommendation of Misses Cheryl, Cecily, and other brave new world women, as to the perfect gift.\" Without much ado but much anxiety, he opened his coat. Just then the entire Bennet family came up behind the dumfounded Lizzie. \"Oh, a red and a green one!\" babbled Mrs. Bennet. \"I do love a well-wrapped present.\" Lizzie, however, merely slammed the door behind her in their faces as she ran to catch up to her now primally screaming lover as he raced to his horse. \"I've always wanted to pull a Lydia [stunt],\" she murmured in his grateful ear. \"Let's wave in the window at Rosings before heading up to Gretna Green.\" As they drove out of sight, \"Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!\" Darcy shouted at Jane waving to them from her room."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (22:43)", "body": "Dear France, I am shocked! and many will tell you that I do not shock easily. But now that the initial flurry of excitment has worn off, and I have reread your offering, using my well-honed imagination and ability to visual the written word, I am finding your vignette more delightful with each passing moment..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (08:06)", "body": "France: yes, a matched pair of red and green watch fobs would dumfound a conservative dresser like Eliza Bennet. Did he attempt the mistletoe as well? \"Oh, how I long to see him!\" to paraphrase Miss Bingley. Perhaps if I put out a plate of Dundee cake and a glass of port and hid behind my kitchen door wearing my new JA muslin on Dec. 24th, he might...? Let me re-read what happens next. (sound of mouse clicking feverishly back up)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "fen", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (07:19)", "body": "epilogue... A piercing beam of sunlight awakened a most groggy Darcy. He shielded his eyes from the glare, then embraced the tousled bedclothes next to him. \"My loveliest Elizabeth,\" he murmured, sleepily. A sudden realization all he hugged was his kingsized pillow forced him awake. \"I hope Bingley never dreams like that,\" he muttered to himself as he washed his face in the silver basin. \"It's enough to drive a man mad.\" On second thought, Darcy decided that a bouquet and strictly courteous holiday note would n t be disliked by Miss Bennet on this Christmas Day; he would do so and send them by special messenger posthaste. Comforted with this gentlemanly resolve, he went down to breakfast."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (12:52)", "body": "Are we now confusing Fitzwilliam Show-Nothing Darcy with Colin Show-It-All Firth?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "panache", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (22:50)", "body": "\"Are we now confusing...?\" Never unintentionally! Think of these as stream-of-consciousness scenes where anything gets connected with everyman; or to paraphrase Pirandello, Six Colin Firth Characters In Search of a Darcy . Poetic license is granted here."}, {"response": 35, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (07:15)", "body": "Elaine: Remember this? Topic 65 of 86 [austen]: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to me Response 18 of 22: Cheryl Sneed (Cheryl) * Fri, Dec 6, 1996 (22:39) * 4 lines \"Right and left bows were intended, no doubt, for right and left thigh. But where, prey tell, the mistletoe?\" Elaine, I shall leave that to your very active imagination! :-) So, I merely recycled \"beribboned visitor\" images from topic 65 in my vignette for the amusement of those addicts, not to malign Darcy, moral rectitude, etcetera. %-}"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (20:42)", "body": "Oops! I lost my bows...and evidently my first response. I did not mean to imply that Darcy had been maligned. It simply struck me as odd for one so stuffy to show up beribboned. Of course, it makes much more sense to know that mistletoe was involved. But let's talk basics."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (20:10)", "body": "Having nearly killed myself laughing at this topic in the wee small hours, I went to bed, and the following came to me in a dream, in toto. It's a bit big for the topic parameters, but I hope you will indulge me. ABSOLUTELY FARCICAL- the beginnings of a silly story. Imagine, gentle reader ,that it is the eve of a costumed ball, at Netherfield,and that all of Austenshire has been invited.In one of the guest bedrooms is Mr Darcy, who, having resisted all his wife's entreaties to dress up as Edward, the Black Prince, is looking almost normal.Lizzie bounds in,and hands him a quizzing-glass. Pinning a tiny scarlet flower to his lapel, she admonishes him gently:- \"Don't forget to laugh and strut around in an imbecilic manner.\" He decides that she looks ravishing with Marguerites in her hair. \"I would not suspend any pleasure of yours,my lovliest!\" he whispers in her ear. In another guest room, Lydia is stuffing Mary into the rejected suit of armour. \"Just pretend that you are Joan of Arc, or Queen Boadicea!\" she hisses. She is feeling a little chilly in her damped down classic Greek robes and her circlet of laurel leaves has come askew again.Wickham, who looked rather alarming dressed as Dick Turpin, has disappeared. Jane and Bingley are overseeing the final touches to the refreshments. Jane , graceful and serene as a Roman Lady, is quietly delighted at the way her husband's skirt of armour and thonged sandals show off his very presentable calves and elegant toes. Mr Hurst as Falstaff, is already stuffing his face. At the Parsonage, Mr Collins is stuffing his gashed sleeve into his coat, and trying to look Napoleonic. Charlotte, in a tiara, is blackening her teeth, and practicing her french accent. At another Parsonage, Henry Crawford has blowdried his hair into the windsept style, and is pinning his sleeve across his chest. He is hoping that his lack of inches will authenticate his impression of Napoleon, and wondering what his angelic Fanny will be wearing. At the big house, Fanny Price, is looking angelic(she finds the wings a bit cumbersome,however.) She is admiring her brother William's Corsair suit. Julia Bertram is stuffing oranges down her Nell Gwynne bodice,and Tom Bertram is getting drunk. Henry Tilney, in yet another Parsonage , having vacillated for a week between Mercutio and Puck, has finally settled for Lord Nelson, and is pinning his sleeve across his chest. His wife, Catherine, her gaze locked on page 204 of \"Costumes and Folklore of Transylvania\", adjusts the corsage of herbiage that fronts her. \"Shall I powder Papa's old wig for you?\" She enquires, waving the puff. \"That's not the wig, that's my new Terrier Puppy!\" he exclaims. Mr and Mrs Edward Ferrars, in the fourth Parsonage, are feeling rather silly as Robin Hood and Maid Marian. Colone Brandon, all in black as the Sherrif of Nottingham, adjusts his wife's wimple and wishes he could cancel Christmas. (That is a terrible joke, sorry!) Margaret Dashwood, waving a pirate hat, bewails the fact that she is not yet \"out\", so cannot go. She thinks Edward looks heroic. I have absolutely no notion what is happening at Donwell or Hartfield. Perhaps someone with more narrative skill than myself will deign to enlighten me.And I believe that there is a boatload of Wentworths, Benwicks and Harvilles that we have to get to the Ball somehow, too."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (22:03)", "body": "I've shown this to some people in the chat room. Here it is for everyone else: http://www.spring.com/~anneh/part1_aa.html"}, {"response": 39, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (23:14)", "body": "Dear Caroline E. and Ann, after a hiatus of no new scenes, I really enjoyed both your above ones today. Encore!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (23:41)", "body": "I love these latest scenes. Ann's is elegant; caroline's is hilarious! Please, may we have some more? Where ever the Bingley sisters are and whatever costumes they are doning, I am sure there are feathers!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (12:30)", "body": "Yes, Very good. Do you have more?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (21:36)", "body": "Give me time, give me a plotline........"}, {"response": 43, "author": "moonshine", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (10:48)", "body": "(I am only 9 years old, so my mother is helping me here with spelling, etc.) ...continuing above ball scene... In their room at Netherfield, Caroline Bingley is dressing up like a giant mallard duck and saying \"Why did you pick this out for me, sister? These feathers are sooo itchy although the duckbill part fits amazingly.\" Louisa Hurst gently swirled in her gorgeous peacock costume, but her fanned tail kept swishing out of control and knocking over tiny glass ornaments and perfume bottles. They opened the door to the room to go downstairs but bumped into Kitty, who WAS a tabby kitten in disguise that hissed a them, with a little laugh afterwards. Downstairs, Mr. Bennet (who was the \"I-hate-company\" Badger from Wind in the Willows ) and Mrs. Bennet (who was an \"always-squawking&complaining\" chicken in a very ruffled feathered costume) were sampling the appetizers..."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (12:09)", "body": "Oh, yes! I thank you, madam, for your kind contribution!I( I love Badger....)"}, {"response": 45, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (14:32)", "body": "Very creative, AnneMarie. I foresee an artistic future for you. Enjoy!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (18:25)", "body": "ABSOLUTELY FARCICAL part 3 Mr Elliott, masquerading as the Prince of Wales, is assssing the net worth of all the ladies in the room. He focuses on a tall young womwan, dressed a la Hussar, surrounded by a group of Military Officers. She looks rather like Miss Bingley, only much better natured.Wishing for an introduction, he turns to Madam Author. \"That's Sophy Rivenhall, \" she tells him. \"Really! I always thought she was fictitous!\"is his reply. \"Er, yes, well...... Perhaps I had better send her back to the Library. Sophy is quite capable of organising her own Ball in there.\" The Hussar and Officers fade from sight. Mr Elliott surveys the room again.\"Too many Gentlemen and not enough ladies,\" he remarks.\"And how are you going to fit all this lot into one plot?\" Madam Author feels a tug at her sleeve.She turns to face Mr Crawford.\" you must give me the leading role in this, \" he says.Madam's other sleeve is tugged, and she turns the other way, to face.... the other Napoleon. \"What pray ,is this all about, again?\" \"Hearts, Mr Collins, Hearts!\" she snaps. A wave of panic is threatening to engulf her. Ducks and Peacocks, Two Napoleons, and the ship not yet in the harbour..... How was she to manage all this? A Rich Brown Voice, from behind, asks, \"What is the matter? Are you unwell?\". She turns, again, to face a pair of Rich, Brown Eyes. \"You look ill. Is there nothing I can get you for your presesnt relief? A glass of wine- can I get you one?\" \"Thank you, yes....\" He leads her into a quiet corner. \"I think I can slip out quietly and see what has happened to the ship,\" he says, as he hands her a ratafia-and water. \"Shall you take Marguerite with you? \"I would not have it otherwise.\" The Brown eyes are beginning to twinkle. As he walks away, a phantom appears, in a plain round gown and mob cap. \"Jane!!!\" shrieks Mme. Author, \"Thank Goodness you have arrived!\" \"You have been rather sloppy in your writing!\" scolds Ms Austen's ghost.\"Poor Ms Heyer is in the Library, still trying to calm down her little Sophy. And now that scandalous Quick woman is demanding an entrance!\" \"Oh, what am I to do?\" Mme.Author wails. \"Look, just get them up and dancing.They'll all feel much better for the excercise, and then we shall consult as to what is to be done!\" The band strikes up \"The Barley Mow\". The Prince walks out on the floor with Nell Gwyn. Mrs Collins is partnered by the other Napoleon. The Greek Nymph stands up with the Roman Soldier.The kitten takes the hand of The Corsair.The Peacock grabs the Badger and drags him to the centre. Sir Percy and Lady Bakeney slip quietly out of the back door. Everyone begins to smile, even Mary Musgoave, dressed as the Queen of Sheba......... Ona lonely turnpke road, Dick Turpin listens for the sound of an approaching carriage. \"Halt!\" he cries. \"Stand and Deliver!\" \"Is that a Password?\" asks Mrs Tilney, untangling her arms from her husbands neck. \"I was afraid that you'd miss the turning,\" explains Turpin.\" If we are not all there by midnight, scenes might arise that would be uncomfortable to more than myself.\" \"Good thinking, Batman,\" asserts Lord Nelson. They wheel, and gallop down the turning. At the harbour, The Duke of Wellington, bearing a remarkable resemblance to Captain Wentworth, is assisting Ruth and Naomi, aka Anne and Louisa, to disembark.Captain Benwick, resplendent as a Turkish Sultan, is tying off the anchor to the \"Honeymooner Belle\" and The Scarlet Pimpernell is manfully handling half a dozen horses. \"Only one hour till midnight, but do not make yourselves uneasy. We shall conquer this, together.!\"he says, firmly. Lady Blakeney, her eyes brightened by the exercise, gives him a quick kiss on the nose. They set off at a spanking pace, rounding the gates of Netherfield just as Turpin and Nelson arrive, startling a band of cutthroat weasels lurking by the water-gate. Rushing up the steps, they waltz into the Ballroom as the countdown begins...... 10......9.....8.......7......................................2.....1........! \"Happy New Year, Everyone!\" shouts the Centurion. The Band strikes up \"Auld Lang Syne\"....... Ms Austen leaves off from waving smelling -salts under the nose of Madam Author. She winks at Mr Darcy. \"I knew I could rely on you to save a Lady's Reputation!\" she says. \"I'll put those weasels back in the Library,\" he smirks."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (18:58)", "body": "Apologies..... The weasels in the spring have NOTHING to do with the lurkers here. They are purely Badger's problem. Hope I didn't offend anyone."}, {"response": 48, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (19:39)", "body": "Caroline - it is lovely, as always. Please continue. May I come to your party? I have a lovely zebra costume."}, {"response": 49, "author": "panache", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (23:03)", "body": "Superbly writ, Caroline!!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (00:09)", "body": "My dear Miss Katy!You are always welcome at ANY social occasion that I could organise!But I fear it is a little late,and Madam Author's nerves are shattered. Perhaps, if you could persuade Mrs Knightly to take over from here, things could get moving again. But ON NO ACCOUNT must you let her into the Library! If Emma and Sophy were ever to meet, Romantic entanglements would be beyond the capabilities of ANY author!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (00:10)", "body": "Apologies..... The weasels in the spring have NOTHING to do with the lurkers here. They are purely Badger's problem. Hope I didn't offend anyone. On the contrary, Caroline. I was convinced that they were somehow related to my nemesis, Weasel Woman."}, {"response": 52, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (00:11)", "body": "ABSOLUTELY FARCICAL was absolutely ripping, C.!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "panache", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (01:10)", "body": "In the works, a new script that connects P&P in a timewarp to original Star Trek voyage era & crew (available in digitally remastered virtual headgear with karaoke script plugins, lifesized dolls, and soma medication to ward off the afterburn of Earth re-entry at scene's end)... \"Coming to a topic near you soon!\" \"Starts playing this week\" etc."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (03:21)", "body": "What fun Caroline! I await your next contribution with great anticipation! (can we manage to get Darcy wet in the next scenario? For Candace! ;-))"}, {"response": 55, "author": "summit", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (10:12)", "body": "I, too, would like to include here a very romanticized new scene of P&P2 soon."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (12:20)", "body": "Loved your masquerade ball, Caroline. And am looking forward to all the other entries promised above! Wish I could write as well as all of you, but if the muse ever hits, I'll promise to enter it here."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (02:38)", "body": "Hmm.... Men are fom Mars, women are from Venus,right? Rwoxana Troi could stand-in for Mrs Bennet..... WE'll have Darcy on Waterworld- I thought Mr Costner was a bit wet in that role....... Cecily, I can't wait! Wendy, yes! Please, some real romance!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (13:23)", "body": "ROMANCE UNDER THE ELMS Part One Lizzie reached uncertainly for the letter Mr. Darcy thrust into her hand. His passionate eyes belied the cool civility of his voice as he asked her to do him the honor of reading his missive. She walked a few paces, then seated herself and opened the letter. Its contents startled her usually assured perspective; she found herself uttering expressions of dismay and denial. Unbeknownst to her, Darcy hovered nearby in a small grove, watching anxiously her reactions. The strain of yesterday's interview, coupled with his night of letterwriting, had taken its toll. Propriety bade him cease looking at her and go to the parsonage to bid farewell, as planned, but he could not tear himself away yet. The woman he loved, whose image tormented his mind and whose repartee wounded his pride, needed to be made to understand how completely taken he was with her. Indeed, his thoughts ere on little else these days, he realized with embarrassment. What had happened to the hauteur with which he formerly met the world, to fend off the Miss Bingleys and Wickhams, to show his ability as master, albeit a young one, of Pemberley? I wonder to which Shakespearean end my love story is heading, LOVE'S LABOR LOST ? A MIDSUMMER NIGHT's DREAM? he ruminated, still peering out at Lizzie who now jumped up and trounced off, reading and muttering \"Insufferable man!\" Mr. Darcy decided, upon heari g that remark, that it was high time to pay his visit to the Collinses... Part Two At Hunsford, he found his cousin already present, lamenting that Miss Bennet was still not back despite his stay of half an hour. Mr. Darcy, while issuing his own terse farewell, noted Col. Fitzwilliam's concerned gaze upon him. I was terribly obvious to him, if not Aunt, yesterday; at some point soon I must tell him what happened. Perhaps he can recommend some ways in which I can conquer this! Mr. Darcy considered, as he smiled wanly back, then took his leave. At Rosings he momentarily was to tempted to accept Lady Catherine's insistent invitation to stay longer. But he knew it would too frightfully difficult to see her again under that roof, playing the piano or trying to speak as if nothing had happened between them. As he packed, and for once curtly silenced and dismissed his aunt on the subject of proper arrangement of clothing in trunks by saying sharply \"What?\", however, the old longing returned. He closed the door to his room; wrenching off hi coat and cravat, he splashed water on his flushed cheeks, his openthroated shirt. Groaning in misery, he went to the window, hoping to see her, knowing full well he would not, the image of a lovelorn man. This will not do he reminded himself sternly. Go to London, seek relief in friends and fencing, put her out of your mind until time and chance again place her before you. With this resolve, he ignored his restless soul and straining breeches and prepared to leave an hour thence..."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (13:31)", "body": "Ooh..........More , please!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "Capital, Wendy, capital!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (13:40)", "body": "Part Three, etc., in a day or two when I return."}, {"response": 62, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (13:58)", "body": "Sorry, guys, but we have a place near a flooding area we're going up to check today. But the scene will continue, I promise :-)"}, {"response": 63, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (15:15)", "body": "Wendy! You great tease! You are gong to abandon us with Darcy wet, trying to ignore his \"restless soul and straining breeches\"?...Wait a minute...on the other hand (right or left, I'm not sure)...perhaps this is the perfect place to leave us...it is a delightful posture to contemplate for a couple of days...yes,indeed..."}, {"response": 64, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (15:29)", "body": "Oh, Wendy, you are indeed baad! Cheryl, I just knew where your mind would focus (left and right, I should say) after Wendy's last sentence."}, {"response": 65, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (15:45)", "body": "Kathleen: \"Cheryl, I just knew where your mind would focus (left and right, I should say) after Wendy's last sentence.\" Oh Kathleen, am I that transparent? ;-)"}, {"response": 66, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (22:41)", "body": "Caroline and Wendy, absolutly love it. What else but : More, more, more and encore."}, {"response": 67, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (12:40)", "body": "Part Three In London the diversions he sought helped slightly: the colonel on the ride there had listened with a sympathetic ear and had assured him of his support- \"Darcy, you canot go on like this. Do not punish yourself incessantly over a wrongly worded proposal. You wrote her the letter; now give it time to sink in. From what I saw, Miss Eliza is a warmhearted young lady who cannot fail to see that your phrasing was due to your hopeless feelings for her; in time, she may respond more favorably. I think it likely, and how could she not? If she were to ever see you at Pemberley, as I have, she would be delighted by your ease of manner and generous propensities with all your acquaintance and staff. Rosings was the last place to put a man in good temper before his proposal, Aunt is so vexing! Come, we'll talk no more about it, but a good round of visits with Charles and fencing workouts should indeed put you right again.\" Mr. Darcy nodded, from habit and gratitiude, in agreement, then turned to stare out the carriage window at the passing scenes (and Lizzie's remembered face and touch at the Netherfield ball). The Bingleys were of course happy to see him again: Charles, despite his sunny demeanor, had the wit to surmise his friend's moroseness and determinedly tried to divert him; Darcy never ceased to admire the goodness of his friend and to regret his part in separating him from Jane. Caroline was another matter: urged on by Louisa, she put herself in the path of the man she pursued at every possible moment; it took all of his courtesy to speak civilly and when he could not, he remained silent or excused h mself from the room. After days spent in this manner, he decided it was high time to return to Pemberley. He spoke with Georgiana on the matter, invited the Bingleys, and went for one last fencing lesson. It was not that he required teaching in the art, for he had learned it much earlier, but the fine old instructor put him on his guard better and made him focus on the match instead of Miss Bennet. This day, though, he felt particularly oppressed by his unrequited yearning for her. His opponent showed some surprise at the nearly violent thrusts of the foil by his usually gentler pupil, even though he complimented Mr. Darcy's skill. As he wiped his sweating brow and walked down the steps to put away his gear, Darcy commented grittily I shall conquer this, I shall! While this reforming fit was upon him, he immediately left London to prepare his estate for visitors. Little did he know which visitors there would be... Part Four \"How Fate loves a jest!\" mumbled Lizzie to herself as the Gardiners and she rolled on their unexpected ride towards Pemberley. But she noted how serene Derbyshire and the company of her aunt and uncle were, and found herself wishing she might always stay in such a place with such good people. Unwillingly, she privately admitted to herself the accuracy of Mr. Darcy's remarks about her own chaotic family, unhandsomely worded though they had been by her suitor. And such a suitor! It was difficult with er uncle seated directly across from her, but managing to keep her face vaguely pleasant, her mind raced back again to Hunsford. How angry she had been at his interference with Jane and his stated objections to her family! But oh, how her heart had lurched when she saw his frenzied pacing, sitting, staring as though his eyes were about to will her into submission, and then coming to stand only a few feet away to speak. She had felt amazed, then cornered, by the boldness of his approach. She had bristl d with the urge to bolt from such passionate intensity before he had said much, then with the urge to strike him when he berated her connections. The scene's memory again upset her, only to be replaced by the subsequent memory of his letter. How odd that after some days and talking with Jane she would now actually long to see him again! Lizzie realized with humiliation that those many times at Netherfield, Rosings, and Hunsford when she had caught Mr. Darcy gazing at her, she had of course also been lo king at him! Like a moth to a candle, his fire pulls me she thought ironically, but now it's too late. At Pemberley, they were most kindly treated by the housekeeper and given many an insight on the family. Lizzie and her aunt admitted that the new impressions of Wickham, the young master, and the estate were undergoing a great deal of thought..."}, {"response": 68, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (15:07)", "body": "Part Five On the approach to Pemberley, Darcy paused, then veered towards a pond. His mind was fairly clear from the bracing ride; all that was wanting was a dip, like in boyhood, to show his newly resolved mastery over his body and life. He found the old spot, dismounted, flung off coat and hat, sat a moment, then began removing his cravat and vest. Strange thoughts of Miss Eliza staring up at him earnestly crossed his mind, but he dismissed them with a shake. No more haunting by you, Elizabeth! He stoo up, resolutely measured the distance and coldness of the swim, and dove in. He felt himself strongly push past waving fronds underwater, water coursing along his fevered body. Moments later, he was heading with his groomsman to the house. The man taking his horse down the stable path, Darcy himself strode on another way. Paradisical meadow flowers all about him, a refreshed mood and damp shirt clinging to him, he paced buoyantly downhill. Rounding some trees, he was dumbfounded by the inexplicable sight of Miss Eliza herself, walking in his direction. His jaw dropped, his eyes gaped at the vision before him. My god, Elizabeth, it's really you at last! How long I have w ited to see you, and how desperate my nights have been! He merely said, \"Miss Bennet!\" as his heart thudded back into rhythm. He noticed, with what little presence of mind he was able to muster, that her gaze was fixed upon him equally with startlement and not a little interest. The two began to babble with the usual amenities, though he was horrified at the conflict going on between his spoken words and hidden wishes, and so began to repeat himself before making his excuses and abruptly leaving. Darcy knew his visitor well enough to believe that she was about to flee his vicinity. Little bird, you shall not fly away so soon! he said to her image as he ran to his room, flung on fresh garments, and sped down the front steps, pulling on his coat like a hurricane. Not a moment too soon! There she goes, into the carriage- talk to her, man! But oh, take care not to frighten her with your desire! The new Darcy succeeded where the former had not. Lizzie, (whose shock at seeing him loom like a greek god after his swim had been matched by her dismay at the warmth stirring inside her body as her look had plunged down his manly form), had indeed attempted to escape her fate by heading for the vehicle with the Gardiners, but Darcy overtook her. Once she became used to his new softened behavior, she responded with a gentleness in kind. The Gardiners, seeing their niece in love and Mr. Darcy as well, efrained from comment and quietly awaited the courtship's next phase with great delicacy. When some time later they took their leave, Lizzie felt the lingering pressure of his fingers on her hand as he helped her into the seat. Their eyes locked as she turned and sought him out, she half-curiously smiling and he determinedly standing firm, host and loverlike, at the edge of his private road, gazing back..."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (15:32)", "body": "Wendy, is your property okay?"}, {"response": 70, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (15:39)", "body": "This scene is becoming another DARCY'S STORY in length, I'm afraid. Probably I should skip to just a bit or two more, then quit. (Luckily, our place was not flooded, though we saw many roadslides and high water areas along the way.)"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (15:59)", "body": "Wendy, please no, don't rein yourself in."}, {"response": 72, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (16:24)", "body": "Well, Mother Amy, and this coming from you?! I'm trying very hard to keep this PG-13 (17?). If this next bit horrifies you, let me know. My internal censor is is unpredictable at best."}, {"response": 73, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (16:27)", "body": "Part Six That night he had the most intoxicating dream. He was in his music room downstairs on a moonlit night, staring at the pianoforte, when he heard someone enter the room behind his sofa. A pair of soft hands covered his eyes, then lips brushed his forehead as he heard Lizzie whisper \"Mr. Darcy\" in silvery tones. \"Miss Bennet!\" he began, then stopped as the hands lifted and she came 'round to sit next to him. \"\"What is it ?\" she asked teasingly, as he sat frozen in disbelief. \"Nnnothing,\" he stammered, b ginning to thaw as he felt her softness near him. Her fingers traced his face from temple to dimple in the eerie light, then fluttered to his shoulders as pent-up ardor swept him and he pulled her to him in an embrace. \"My dearest, loveliest Elizabeth!\" he murmured before his mouth found hers. The passion that flamed up in him made him lose his senses. His head swirled as her closeness enveloped him. The ecstasy was overwhelming him--- Darcy woke with a start as he fell off the bed, knocking over the nightstand and wakening his dogs on the rug nearby. A quick glance out the window showed moonlight still. I must see her in the morning at Lambton! But I'd better be with Georgiana and Charles or I won't be answerable for my actions he thought worriedly. Then he settled back for sleep and the heated recollection of his dream..."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (16:39)", "body": "Wendy, by no means should you stop now! More installments, I beg you."}, {"response": 75, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (17:06)", "body": "We're not worthy, we're not worthy (on bended knees and bowing to the flutters of delight your prose inspires)"}, {"response": 76, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (17:07)", "body": "My thanks to those who have expressed their interest in my little tale. You're a very tolerant audience (of my mistakes and sheer lapses of memory and time to do this). Family matters call me away, but I'll continue when possible. ;-)"}, {"response": 77, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (17:08)", "body": "But don't you dare get flooded over our sakes! We love you alive and well."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (17:17)", "body": "P&P as it may have been written by Barbara Cartland! Wendy, Wendy, Wendy...(bemused head shaking...) I am enjoying this much more than I know I should! I have always been rather disdainful of pure romance novels, but this does not bother me for some reason...I wonder why that it could be? ;-)"}, {"response": 79, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (17:26)", "body": "a certain something in her air and manner of writing, her romantic and yet not trashy address and expressions :)"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (19:57)", "body": "I am eagerly awaiting the denouement, Wendy. You do, indeed, write beautifully. I, for one, love the romance and the ideas you have put in my mind and imagination. Thank you so much, and do please continue whenever you have time and the flood waters have receded."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (11:43)", "body": "As my granny used to say, \"We must possess our souls in patience\"I probably sound like Mary Bennet.But I feel like Lydia. Great stuff Wendy!Will be thinking of you."}, {"response": 82, "author": "summit", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (11:44)", "body": "Part Seven Returning from a walk through Lambton the next day, Lizzie was happily surprised by the trio of visitors. Miss Georgiana was a shy, pretty girl to whom she took an instant liking. Mr. Bingley was effusive in his delight and inquiry about \"all\" her sisters. And Mr. Darcy? Lizzie found it a trifle disconcerting to see the newly awakened look on his face as his glance leapt darkly from her eyes to her mouth and back again. She composed her mind enough, however, to accept the dinner invitation of ered, and in fact spent so much time on dressing that evening as to cause a Collins-like remark about the time from her normally placid uncle. During the musical interlude provided by Miss Bennet accompanied by his sister, Darcy entered such bliss as he had never known. Her sweet soprano voice singing of love rocked his soul gently; he felt her warmth float towards him. An unaccustomed joy soothed his lonely spirit . The piece done and his sister's starting, he was appalled moments later by Miss Bingley's rude remarks about the Bennet girls and Wickham, and he feared for Georgiana's peace of mind. But Lizzie's deft handling of the situation nd subsequent gaze brought back his former mood. Indeed, he could scarcely believe the steadiness with which she looked at him, and he found himself reponding with complete fervor and openness. I love you, you beautiful woman! I want to take you to come over here and caress me like last night. I want to take you in my arms and carry you out into the garden and make love to you in the soft grass. I want this connection I feel in our eyes to never end. In front of all these people I want to declare my love for you, Elizabeth. Neither of them said a word. Some time later, Darcy re-enterd the darkened music room. The rush of emotion he had experienced all evening convinced him Miss Bennet did not abhor him as formerly. The Gardiners whom he genuinely liked had shown their pleasure with his sister and himself, he was comforted to note, and they were likely allies if he renewed his addresses soon. If only there were some way he could be sure of her feelings toward him, some way in which he could really prove himself to her as a well-meaning man to whom she could finally give herself in marriage! Chance may again provide a way he acknowledged as he headed to bed..."}, {"response": 83, "author": "summit", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (12:26)", "body": "Part Eight Lizzie felt a new contentment and lightness of being the next morning, which she told herself she could not account for. When letters arrived from Jane, she begged to be excused from the walking tour planned, and her relatives kindly left her alone to read. To her great discomfort, Lizzie learned of Lydia's scandalous behavior; indeed, she was on her way to fetch her aunt and uncle, in tears, when the door burst open and the serving girl announced Mr. Darcy. She could not bear that he should see her in such wretchedness after their lovely evening together, but it could not be helped. She heard the sincere concern in his rich voice and felt his hands firmly guide her to a seat where she might compose herself. Dimly through her grief she sensed and admired his protective care of herself, a sensation quite different from any even her own dear father, with his tendency to ironic banter, had given her in times of distress. Darcy for his part was greatly shocked at the dregs to which Wickham had lowered himself, especially with a sister of his beloved. He , at least, recognized that a girl of 15 or 16 was too vulnerable to leave unprotected or meddle with, and he was quite sorry that Lydia and her family had not been forewarned by himself when he had first seen Wickham in Meryton. As these and similar thoughts ran through his head, he also listened to Lizzie's broken words and tried to fight an urge to kiss her shaki g hands. When he felt he might lose that fight, he stood with his back to her, then turned and crossed the room, enquiring what had been done to find the pair. Upon hearing her tearful reply, he attempted to bring them both back to some semblance of standard social intercourse by mentioning the defaulted supper plans. To his relief she replied with the customary manner; he then felt capable of taking his leave without throwing caution to the wind and making an advance towards her, which he knew would end awkwardly. Instead, he fixed her with what he hoped was a proper but commiserating look, and then left..."}, {"response": 84, "author": "carolee", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (14:55)", "body": "oooooh Wendy You are terrific!!! Please, please continue."}, {"response": 85, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (09:20)", "body": "Wendy, I shall be dreaming all day...........Thank you! It's wonderful!"}, {"response": 86, "author": "summit", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (12:21)", "body": "Part Nine Not wanting to dwell on the sudden loss of his lovely Miss Bennet, nor be continually badgered by the unbearable Miss Bingley, Mr. Darcy took himself off to London. Bent on discovering the whereabouts of the missing couple, he made inquiries at every likely location. Knowing Wickham's inclination to repeat previous actions, the owner of Pemberley particularly sought out the lodgings of a Mrs. Young, whom he knew to be in Wickham's confidence and likely to have aided him in his recent escapade, as she h d in his own poor sister's case. He successfully located her in the seedier side of town, learned after some little pressure the address of Wickham, and went thither. The preliminary meeting with the pair was not very satisfactory, to his irritation as a man who abominated the immorality their condition suggested. After the removal of Lydia to the Gardiners', considerable remonstrances on his part, and at last the generous offer of clearing all George Wickham's debts and providing a sum to start life ogether on a proper footing, Darcy succeeeded in making his old nemesis accede to marriage with Lydia. The Gardiners, for their part, were astonished and appreciative of all his efforts, though there was a brief but cordial skirmish on the matter of financing the newlyweds. Unlike perhaps other branches of the Bennet family, the Gardiners had the wit to sense the chivalric motivations of Mr. Darcy, the friendly feelings he had toward themselves and another at Longbourne, and his hope of yet closer ties.."}, {"response": 87, "author": "summit", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (13:00)", "body": "Part Ten After many worrisome days, (including the nervous state of Mrs. Bennet, the \"condoling\" visits of such persons as Aunt Phillips, Lady Lucas, and the galling Mr. Collins, and the return of a defeated Mr. Bennet), the family were somewhat relieved to learn of the wedding arranged in London. Their concern over the money presumed lent by the Gardiners, however, was mollified for Lizzie at least when a chance remark by the new Mrs. Wickham let slip news of Mr. Darcy's involvement in the London wedding. Letters exchanged with her aunt told Lizzie what her heart had half-surmised, that the new Mr. Darcy (new to her, at any rate) was still somehow in connexion with her life and not a man to be thwarted. This realization caused her some excitement and not a little anxiety, as she attempted to go about her daily routine. Indeed, it was not many days hence when they heard that Netherfield's owner was again come to stay, with a party of gentlemen. The flurry in the Bennet household was a delight to behold when, soon after, two gentlemen were seen to ride up to their residence: Mr. Bingley and Mr. Darcy. Jane looked prettily modest under the enraptured gaze of Charles; Lizzie tingled under the more swiftly covert glances shot her way by Darcy before the discourteous remarks by her ridiculous mother drove him to stand by he window, there to better control his temper. Lizzie wished with all her heart to silence her mother, but manners forbade it. She imagined herself going up to him, touching his arm, stroking his hair, standing quite close to him, whispering his name until he turned to look into her eyes the way he had that night at Pemberley, his dark fire piercing every corner of her being, until she should cry out in abandonment her love for this man who had so taken her in thrall... She came to herself with a start as she found his eyes fixed on her indeed, his lips parted in a tender half-smile. How fortunate the rest of the group was so concentrated on what was passing between dear Jane and Charles instead! Lizzie blushed furiously and bent to her sewing, making every possible error in her flower pattern; Mr. Darcy made for the door, walking with some difficulty and care. Charles, equally delighted with the effects of his visit, stumbled out after repeated farewells, and the two rode off at a cautious walking pace. .."}, {"response": 88, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (18:36)", "body": "Wendy, hurry up and finish, I can hardly wait for the next installment. You write with such feeling and emotion that is so engaging. Please, please dear Wendy include a piece on their wedding and honeymoon."}, {"response": 89, "author": "summit", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (20:40)", "body": "Part Eleven Never in his life had Mr. Darcy been so forthright with a friend as when he admitted to Mr. Bingley his wrongful part in separating Charles from Miss Jane Bennet. He regretted the look of hurt and reproof in his friend's face, and he apologized for his prior mistaken appraisal of the depth of affection Charles and Jane felt for each other. Charles, forgiving Darcy as one man might an older brother, immediately saw a happy prospect opening before him, and seizing the instant, asked for and banteringly ot Darcy's blessing on his proposing to Jane. As his friend left for town, Bingley rode on horseback to Longbourne and within the hour was the happiest man on earth. The Bennets were content with their prospective son-in-law; he was, as Mr. Bennet commented, one of the few genuinely happy men he had ever met. Jane's glowing features easily told how happy she had become with the long awaited conclusion to her little drama. Her only wish, she confessed to Lizzie, was that her dear sister find such a husband, at which Lizzie outwardly demurred and joked, but inwardly recalled a certain face and hoped for its imminent return. She had not long to wait. On a briskly fine day, Mr. Bingley rode up with Mr. Darcy. The gentlemen accompanied the Bennet girls on a walk, with Kitty, Lizzie and Mr. Darcy in the rear until Kitty went off to visit Maria Lucas at her home nearby. After a moment's awkward quiet, Lizzie attempted to express her family's thanks for his generous efforts to save her sister Lydia from permanent disgrace. Darcy listened gravely, then replied that his good deed had been entirely for her, at which she colored silently, to his encourageme t. Your thoughts have become like mine, my love, full of a passion that cannot be hidden and may not be suppressible much longer. Taking the opportunity, he faced her squarely and asked if her feelings were unchanged. When she managed to admit aloud that they were quite the reverse, his heart felt near to bursting, so deep was his joy. The rest of their party having gone on ahead, Darcy and Lizzie found themselves walking alone under majestic old trees. As the two at first gingerly, then rapidly, disclosed the changes each had undergone during the past months, often due to something the other had said in pride or prejudice, they walked ever closer side by side, lightly bumping into each other, until solitude and desire worked their spell on reason's grasp. Perhaps it was something in her eyes that made him stop discoursing so eloquent y; perhaps it was the power surging through his fingers on hers that made her suddenly tremble as a sapling before the oncoming storm. Her body turned aside in maidenly half-protest, then turned back as his brown eyes beckoned and his arms reached for her. With a sigh she buried herself against him, feeling the pounding of his heart answered by her own. He lifted her chin gently, his lips descending on hers in a long, exploring kiss. Her response during it startled her: she found her hands reaching u , first 'round his neck, then twining through his curls, then clutching his back as they pressed each other closer in a dizzying, fullbody embrace. When at last they pulled apart, both scant of breath, her wide-eyed and him nearly beside himself with need of her, he shook his head slowly and said with the ruefullest of smiles, (version one, \"Madam, do you not know we are on a BB rated PG13? ) (version two, \"Madam, I think it best we get married as speedily as possible? I know Charles is eager to also! )... And so they married. As to what happened on their wedding night, I'd probably have to start another BB or make it available by private mail. (My husband suggested I could complete the tale,( including the missing first chapters/3 tapes, other scenes, and a more completely fulfilling ending), in booklet form and mail it out at little over the cost of copying, a cover and postage to any fellow addict interested in time for Valentine's Day or May Day!) It was enlightening to do this project, and quite filled my thoughts as I p eced it together over the past days while driving, cooking, even visiting relatives. It is excessively simplistic, this \"romancification\" of an Austen gem, I know, yet most enjoyable. I should like to try Sense and Sensibility some day. Thank you for your kind indulgence, my dears."}, {"response": 90, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (21:34)", "body": "] \"When at last they pulled apart, . . . he shook his head slowly and said with the ruefullest of smiles, . . . . 'Madam, do you not know we are on a BB rated PG13?' . . . !\" Oh, Wendy -- ROTFLOL!!! What an ending to this romantic set of episodes. Much applause along w/ the laughter. I thank you on behalf of all our family (of fellow addicts)."}, {"response": 91, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (22:19)", "body": "Wendy - thank you, thank you, thank you. Darcy thanks you also from the bottom of his heart. Words do not come easily to him. You have given him a voice."}, {"response": 92, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (22:24)", "body": "Well done Wendy! I would be vastly happy if you would put me on your mailing list!"}, {"response": 93, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "Wendy - it's absolutely beautiful. I think you have the makings of a romance writer. Darcy thanks you, Lizzie thanks you, Jane Austen thanks you, and I thank you. ;-)"}, {"response": 94, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "Wendy - it's absolutely beautiful. I think you have the makings of a romance writer. Darcy thanks you, Lizzie thanks you, Jane Austen thanks you, and I thank you. ;-)"}, {"response": 95, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (22:34)", "body": "Must have clicked twice - quite unintentional, I assure you. But Wendy, add me to your mailing list too - I'd love to get the rest of the story, whether it's for Valentines, Memorial Day, Labor Day or next Christmas (although it would be very hard to wait that long!)"}, {"response": 96, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (22:49)", "body": "Pray, do consider a new career, success often come from what we enjoy the most. Put me on your mailing list as well. Wunderbar Wendy!"}, {"response": 97, "author": "DaRcYfAn", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (10:11)", "body": "I've just tuned in - now, I really know I'm with the right group \"I'm all astonishment! But...Pray....continue!\""}, {"response": 98, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (11:56)", "body": "Wendy, like the other Wendy in Peter Pan, you tell great stories! Add me to the mailing list, please....."}, {"response": 99, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (11:57)", "body": ""}, {"response": 100, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (17:56)", "body": "I still have such flutterings from the romantic version you have provided Wendy and I want to thank you.Bravo, bravo.This was a song worth listening to, to paraphrase Anne Eliott. Would be happy to buy any copy of this if you find a way of distribution. I'll send you my e-mail adress."}, {"response": 101, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (18:11)", "body": "Beautiful Wendy. Like the others have mentioned you brought Darcy's feelings to life. I would be happy if you would put me on your mailing list as well."}, {"response": 102, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (19:15)", "body": "Wendy, there must be some way we can put up the rest and password protect it or something."}, {"response": 103, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (19:15)", "body": "Wendy, there must be some way we can put up the rest and password protect it or something."}, {"response": 104, "author": "summit", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "I came home from work and admit to becoming a bit tearful with happiness at your sweet compliments! We bought some quietly elegant paper and cover stock for producing some copies of the little romance booklet once it is finished. Valentine's Day is doubtless an overly optimistic \"publishing date,\" given my January workload, but I shall use spare hours (as they appear) to work on the missing sections. (I feel some trepidation at creating the honeymoon scene, as you may well imagine...) Until the first booklet is produced and weighed in a mailer, the cost is ununknown to me, but I want to assure you it will be just to cover the materials, copying, and postage since I intend this only as a keepsake edition for friends. Amy, I think I'd like to create a finished product for us all instead of trying to encode it into a locked compartment (though that does sound fascinating, like a mystery story) :-) But when I get the urge to start another Cartland Classic , I promise I'll give some of the episodes here again! My email address is Wendysum@aol.com (if you'd like a copy for yourself or a friend)"}, {"response": 105, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "Wendy, how about Emma has your next commission or even Anne first encounter with Captain Wentworth ? :)"}, {"response": 106, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:52)", "body": "Making incredible typos tonight and pray excuse me (especially on hubba-hubba thread). No sleep in 2 days shows."}, {"response": 107, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:53)", "body": "Johanne, please come on over to the Drawing Room. Just to watch if you like"}, {"response": 108, "author": "IF", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (16:45)", "body": "Thank you Wendy for all the stories you have contributed and I hpoe you will continue.Also put me on your mailing list."}, {"response": 109, "author": "IF", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (16:45)", "body": "Thank you Wendy for all the stories you have contributed and I hope you will continue.Also put me on your mailing list."}, {"response": 110, "author": "summit", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (18:27)", "body": "NEWSFLASH Have started new scene...water is a definite element in honeymoon (as per Darcy/CF contract)...possible front page illustration under review...having so much fun with these characters...\"Wish You Were Here\"! Wendy"}, {"response": 111, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (19:40)", "body": "Yes, Wendy, please do Emma! (I think Kaff might appreciate it as well! ;} )..."}, {"response": 112, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (00:34)", "body": "Wemdy, your wrinting is wonderful. Thanks for sharing with us. I'll be emailing you with my address. Mich"}, {"response": 113, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (00:40)", "body": ""}, {"response": 114, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (00:40)", "body": ""}, {"response": 115, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (05:33)", "body": "The waiting for the completion of Romance Under the Elms reminds me of: 1) the last trimester of pregnancy (\"great expectations\"); 2) the hours before a first date with someone you've secretly admired awhile; 3) the weeks before the next issue of a magazine arrives with the final installment of a story. Fretful but eager anticipation! (Oh, for just a sentence or two to keep us happy!) :}"}, {"response": 116, "author": "Carine", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (09:23)", "body": "Toutes mes felicitations, Wendy... fortunately, I didn't read Romance under The Elms before you had written Part eleven ! I don't know what I would have done between the beginning and Sunday the 6th! I'll be emailing you with my address as soon as possible. Carine"}, {"response": 117, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (18:57)", "body": "UPDATE Today worked from Netherfield rental through Lizzy's arrival to care for Jane...am trying to keep the satire along with the romantic slant... Darcy's mind is such a riot to stride (strut?) around in... ;-) Slogging away, Wendy"}, {"response": 118, "author": "carolee", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (00:01)", "body": "Wendy, Just finished the last episode anad I marvel at you wonderful ability. Will E-Mail you right now to put me on your mailing list."}, {"response": 119, "author": "summit", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (06:39)", "body": "Greetings! Just a peek at how it's going: The sound of billiard balls in play from a nearby room lured her there first. To her discomfort, the sole occupant present was a coatless Mr. Darcy, muscles rippling smoothly under his fine shirt as he saw her there and bowed. Oh no-- of all people to run into alone in this way! He will think me abominably foolish. Mr. Darcy thought nothing of the kind. He was intent upon her form silhouetted in the doorway so charmingly. Indeed, he was not able to frame any sort of greeting, but stared with probing gaze until she turned and left. I cannot understand why her entrance should have such a gripping effect on my customary ease! Darcy thought tightly, as he almost angrily slammed the red ball into the pocket. This unusual action somehow relieved his feelings, and he was able to put away his cue and esume his coat with a certain jauntiness. Indeed, he found himself quite suddenly humming some Mozart, but that not being quite in keeping with the image of decorum he strove to maintain as Bingley's mentor, he ceased at once and modified his gait to a more sedate walk as he joined the rest in the drawingroom..."}, {"response": 120, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (21:08)", "body": "]\"...as he joined the rest in the drawingroom...\" Ah, would that he could, right here in this virtual drawingroom! We'd all give Darcy a grand welcome. Thanks for the snippet, Wendy. :-)"}, {"response": 121, "author": "summit", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (08:37)", "body": "update #2 ...The original P&P plot romantization is completed through wedding day..working on honeymoon epilogue, which takes place in the Lake District, a Darcy choice meant to gratify Lizzy's dearest wish - okay, second dearest wish...;-)...am researching area to describe their walks,etc., semi-accurately. Certainly the booklet is more complete than anticipated; shall let you know as soon as printed. Many thanks to those who have emailed me with requests for copies for self and/or friends. (I can be reached at Wendysum@aol.com)"}, {"response": 122, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (13:40)", "body": "Wendy -- would love to read this when it's finished. My email is k_elder@fre.fsu.umd.edu. By the way, there may be some info on the Lake District at http://www.walks-uk.demon.co.uk/ . This is the site of a Lake District tour outfit. (I used this group for a walking tour I went on in 1993.) Cheerio!"}, {"response": 123, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (01:48)", "body": "Applause and Plausibility What really happened between George Wickham and My Aunt Bertie (a short story in four (or more) parts) Part One - How the Wickhams came to live on the Pemberly estate. A year or two after the war, the Darcys and the Bingleys sat down with Mr. Bennet to discuss Lydia and Mr. Wickham. All were concerned both for Lydia's welfare and the family's respectability. During the war, Wickham's military career gave a certain structure to their lives and a semblance of discipline. They could not quite live within their income but they did, in fact, come very close. Only a little help from her sisters was necessary for them to maintain the appearance of being both trustworthy and well-provided for. After Wickham left the army, their manner of living becamechaotic. Wickham was often at the local taverns, often drunk, often gambling and losing. Mrs. Wickham began to concentrate on being fashionably and expensively dressed. They spent more every year. As they moved about the country, they would no sooner receive some little assistance from Jane or Elizabeth towards setting their bills in their former home, than they would begin accumulating more debts in their new one. They could not find or keep servants, and their everyday mode of living was degenerating with every move. There were worse problems than extravagance and mismanagement. Wickham appeared to be away from home a great deal so that Lydia, never strong of mind, was left alone more than was good for her. And worse, they feared that there might be some mistreatment of poor Lydia. No one, of course, could not discuss this possibility directly, but bruises had been seen on her arm. Mr. Wickham had been heard to raise his voice a little too high, and she had flinched and darted backwards from him in a way most out of character for the bold, determined younger sister they had loved even while disapproving of her behavior. The little conference agreed that moving the couple to Hertfordshere would be a mistake. Mrs. Bennet could never bear that any limits be placed on Lydia or her handsome husband; she would probably encourage rather than help curb their wild behavior. Mr. Bingley suggested finding a house for them on his estate as he had for the Hursts, but after some discussion, all five acknowledged that the Wickhams could put more energy and determination into doing wrong than the Bingleys could into managing them. Finally, it was reluctantly agreed that the Wickhams must move to Derbyshire. A house, Derby-Glen, about three miles from Pemberly House and two miles from Lambton, was found for them, and prepared, arranged, and furnished by Lydia's older sisters. Servants were hired and trained, to be paid and supervised by Pemberly House and promised jobs at that house if they could complete a full year at Derby-Glen. Tradespeople in Lambton were told to extend no credit to the Wickhams, advice hardly necessary in a town were Mr. Wickham was so well known. The Wickhams arrived at their new home without funds and without horses of their own, but full of joy and confidence. They were encouraged to send to the great house for anything they needed. Lydia had visions of being part of an elegant social life at Lizzy's new home, while Wickham felt he had won a great victory: to live almost entirely at Darcy's expense. Wickham set out cheerfully to acquire horses and was shocked to learn that he could not purchase a horse in his home county without cash; and even more surprised to discover, when he attempted to borrow horses from Pemberly Stables, that the family in Pemberly House did not understand his need for a horse at all. \"It cannot be much longer, Mr. Wickham,\" said the old stable master politely, \"before your next monies come to you. Meantime, everything you need is within an easy walk for you. Or, send a servant, if you do not like to walk.\" As for the offer of supplies from the great house, the Wickhams soon found that there was a serious disagreement between the two houses about exactly what might be needed at the Derby-Glen. Wickham might send for a dozen bottles of wine and receive only two. Lydia might ask for ten yards of blue silk, and would receive instead questions as to how she planned to use it, how much she actually needed to make the dress or curtain the window or whatever and would eventually get three yards which was enough to make the dress and trim a matching bonnet but was no where near as much fun as having ten yards. The Wickhams could walk to Lambton easily, but with no funds, they could buy nothing, they could not eat at the inn, they could not drink at the tavern. They could walk to Pemberly House, but found there was seldom any pleasure to be had there. There was much reading and music but little wine or company. Darcy, for Georgiana's sake, would not invite them to dine, and in fact neither Darcy nor his sister would stay in the same room with them for more than a few minutes. Lydia lost her small claim to Darcy's resp"}, {"response": 124, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (01:49)", "body": "Applause and Plausibility What really happened between George Wickham and My Aunt Bertie (a short story in four (or more) parts) Part One - How the Wickhams came to live on the Pemberly estate. A year or two after the war, the Darcys and the Bingleys sat down with Mr. Bennet to discuss Lydia and Mr. Wickham. All were concerned both for Lydia's welfare and the family's respectability. During the war, Wickham's military career gave a certain structure to their lives and a semblance of discipline. They could not quite live within their income but they did, in fact, come very close. Only a little help from her sisters was necessary for them to maintain the appearance of being both trustworthy and well-provided for. After Wickham left the army, their manner of living becamechaotic. Wickham was often at the local taverns, often drunk, often gambling and losing. Mrs. Wickham began to concentrate on being fashionably and expensively dressed. They spent more every year. As they moved about the country, they would no sooner receive some little assistance from Jane or Elizabeth towards setting their bills in their former home, than they would begin accumulating more debts in their new one. They could not find or keep servants, and their everyday mode of living was degenerating with every move. There were worse problems than extravagance and mismanagement. Wickham appeared to be away from home a great deal so that Lydia, never strong of mind, was left alone more than was good for her. And worse, they feared that there might be some mistreatment of poor Lydia. No one, of course, could not discuss this possibility directly, but bruises had been seen on her arm. Mr. Wickham had been heard to raise his voice a little too high, and she had flinched and darted backwards from him in a way most out of character for the bold, determined younger sister they had loved even while disapproving of her behavior. The little conference agreed that moving the couple to Hertfordshere would be a mistake. Mrs. Bennet could never bear that any limits be placed on Lydia or her handsome husband; she would probably encourage rather than help curb their wild behavior. Mr. Bingley suggested finding a house for them on his estate as he had for the Hursts, but after some discussion, all five acknowledged that the Wickhams could put more energy and determination into doing wrong than the Bingleys could into managing them. Finally, it was reluctantly agreed that the Wickhams must move to Derbyshire. A house, Derby-Glen, about three miles from Pemberly House and two miles from Lambton, was found for them, and prepared, arranged, and furnished by Lydia's older sisters. Servants were hired and trained, to be paid and supervised by Pemberly House and promised jobs at that house if they could complete a full year at Derby-Glen. Tradespeople in Lambton were told to extend no credit to the Wickhams, advice hardly necessary in a town were Mr. Wickham was so well known. The Wickhams arrived at their new home without funds and without horses of their own, but full of joy and confidence. They were encouraged to send to the great house for anything they needed. Lydia had visions of being part of an elegant social life at Lizzy's new home, while Wickham felt he had won a great victory: to live almost entirely at Darcy's expense. Wickham set out cheerfully to acquire horses and was shocked to learn that he could not purchase a horse in his home county without cash; and even more surprised to discover, when he attempted to borrow horses from Pemberly Stables, that the family in Pemberly House did not understand his need for a horse at all. \"It cannot be much longer, Mr. Wickham,\" said the old stable master politely, \"before your next monies come to you. Meantime, everything you need is within an easy walk for you. Or, send a servant, if you do not like to walk.\" As for the offer of supplies from the great house, the Wickhams soon found that there was a serious disagreement between the two houses about exactly what might be needed at the Derby-Glen. Wickham might send for a dozen bottles of wine and receive only two. Lydia might ask for ten yards of blue silk, and would receive instead questions as to how she planned to use it, how much she actually needed to make the dress or curtain the window or whatever and would eventually get three yards which was enough to make the dress and trim a matching bonnet but was no where near as much fun as having ten yards. The Wickhams could walk to Lambton easily, but with no funds, they could buy nothing, they could not eat at the inn, they could not drink at the tavern. They could walk to Pemberly House, but found there was seldom any pleasure to be had there. There was much reading and music but little wine or company. Darcy, for Georgiana's sake, would not invite them to dine, and in fact neither Darcy nor his sister would stay in the same room with them for more than a few minutes. Lydia lost her small claim to Darcy's resp"}, {"response": 125, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (01:50)", "body": "I did not mean to post it twice. sorry, gang. hope you like part one."}, {"response": 126, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (02:26)", "body": "katy dear, you have solved your Wickham enigma! Brava! Am waiting anxiously to learn more about your Aunt Bertie and the dastardly Wickham...I know he cannot bear to be long under the constraints Darcy has imposed upon him. :-)"}, {"response": 127, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (07:08)", "body": "Very nice, Katy, to see what that pair is up to in their future. I think there is a an embarrassingly familiar ring to their credit-life style and some of our generations', however, so you're giving us a \"cautionary tale\" as well. ;-)"}, {"response": 128, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (08:22)", "body": "Wonderful stuff, Katy!Are you going to have all Wickham's old girlfriends descend on him? I cannot wait!"}, {"response": 129, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (15:46)", "body": "Great Katy. I like the credit-type lifestyle, does have a certain familiar ring!! One question - did Wickham really wish for Lydia??;-)"}, {"response": 130, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (16:54)", "body": "Inko: did Wickham really wish for Lydia??;-) I don't know that he actually wished for Lydia, he did wish for female company when he ran away from the ____shire Militia. But whether he wished for her or no, he is stuck with her now and I say they deserve each other! I just hope that Aunt Bertie really socks it to him! ;-)"}, {"response": 131, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "\"the credit-type lifestyle, does have a certain familiar ring!\" We write what we know, unfortunately!!"}, {"response": 132, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "Many thank yous..I will try to introduce you to dear Auntie Bertie tonight - and hopefully not double post her!"}, {"response": 133, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (23:33)", "body": "Applause and Plausibility What really happened between George Wickham and My Aunt Bertie (a short story in four (or more) parts) Part Two - Introducing Aunt Bertie Now I begin the challenge of making you adore Auntie Bertie in 1000 words or less. She is a really neat lady: as optimistic and cheerful and energetic at 83 as I was at 20, and she has more common sense than anyone else I know. One hour with her is worth three with a shrink. All her life she has been pretty and funny, and always, it seems, enjoying every minute of every day. She has born on a farm near Hamilton, Ontario and grew up in the shadow of the roaring twenties, sure she was destined for adventure as soon as she finished the chore of growing up. She was first of her friends to try to bicycle across the American border, astonishing the various clerks in the government offices who looked up to see a 10-year old on a bike declare herself entering the country on a pleasure trip. Likewise, she was the first to attempt to paddle a canoe across Lake Ontario - or at least the first to get more than 50 feet from shore. This was dangerous and foolhardy but something that every one of Bertie's friends had to try at least once. And of course she was the fi st to learn the Charleston. On a recent visit, Auntie Bertie told me the plans she made as a teenager - two years in Europe, then college in Montreal, a journalism career, then marriage and children. She had saved for the boat fare, learned her French, and was ready to pack her bags. But Bertie could not plan around the Great Depression which hit less than a year before the proposed trip. The popular wisdom among parents at the time was that college was a safe place for the young people until 'things got better'. Bertie held out for Paris, but her parents refused to allow it. The long planned 'year abroad' was postponed in favor of college - and not four hundred miles away with a new language but practically in her own back yard. \"My dear,\" she says to me, \"instead of going to Paris or Montreal, I was going to be a barter student right up the road in Hamilton. It would be ike being back in high school.\" Bartering between colleges and farm families, with school expenses being paid in farm products, had always been practiced on a small scale. As the depression deepened, no one had much cash any more, and colleges were struggling along with every one else. They gladly accepted students from farm families who could bring fresh food as payment for room and board and tuition. Bertie talked her parents into Quelph college, about 150 miles away by train, reminding them of the Paris money which could be used for part of the expenses. Her shame at being a 'barter student' lasted less than a day. Everyone was broke at college, and the bartering deals, once the last resort of the very needy, now raised the student to practically the status of landed gentry. The farms would be there next year, and the barter students were more confident of being able to continue their studies than those relying of money from other sources. Journalism, glamorous journalism, was not an option for a woman whose family expected increased earning power from the college years, so Auntie Bertie studied to be a teacher. She would have headed straight for Quebec with her new certificate, but her parents were still afraid to have her that far from home. \"Outsiders get fired first,\" they repeated every time she brought the subject up, and finally reluctantly, she decided to teach in Hamilton."}, {"response": 134, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "Applause and Plausibility What really happened between George Wickham and My Aunt Bertie (a short story in four (or more) parts) Part Two - Introducing Aunt Bertie - continued More than sixty years later, Auntie Bertie bounces a great-grandbaby in her lab and laughs as she tells me that, except for college, she has never lived more than 50 miles from home, and she blames it all on the year she was born. She was too young to be a flapper, too busy raising children to be a Red Cross worker or WAC in WWII, too married for the revolutions of the sixties. She raised four lovely children - married them all off in the 1960's, re-married a couple of them in the 1970's. She and her s eet husband retired in the 1980's full of plans for travel and the long-postponed adventure. He was diagnosed with cancer the next year, and she spent three years quietly nursing him. She buried him in 1989 when she was 75 years old. \"Now you see me, my dear,\" she sighs and laughs a little. \"I have money to travel and friends to travel with. But I am too old to enjoy being away from home for very long now. Strange beds cause the arthritis to flare up, and I am soon too uncomfortable to enjoy the trip.\" \"But you have traveled some, haven't you?\" I ask, trying to remember little bits of family news from other get-togethers. \"Of course, I travel to visit family, and sometimes I go with friends to Europe for a few weeks. But what I always wanted was to actually live in another place for a year or so. To live somewhere where the weather is different and the customs are different. That is what I planned and what never happened. Now it is too late.\" \"Wait a minute, my dear auntie,\" I exclaim. \"Let me tell you about this one little added perk in the Pemberly House tour. You remember, I told you that you get to meet the P&P characters and visit with them at the incredibly lovely Pemberly estate?\" \"Oh yes, my dear. It does sound like a lovely trip. I am so glad you were able to go with so many delightful young women. what a lovely thing, travel is when you are young.\" \"But auntie, I have not told you yet that WE got to be any age we wanted during the tour. Just as the P&P folks are still as young as they were 200 years ago, you can be as young as you were when you first met them if you choose while you are there.\" \"How long did you say the tour lasted?\" she asks. \"I am sure it is negotiable, like a college education, my dear aunt\", I reply.;-)"}, {"response": 135, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (03:25)", "body": "Katy, I like your Aunt Bertie very much and look forward to her taking on Wickham! ;-)"}, {"response": 136, "author": "summit", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (08:00)", "body": "I like what you're telling us because of its truth, too, Katy. I always loved being with my great-aunts, uncles, and grandparents for the marvelous stories and wisdom and dry humor! Mine are gone now so it is a treat to hear about Aunt Bertie. :-) Wendy"}, {"response": 137, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (14:43)", "body": "Katy, how I like to hear about your sweet Aunt Bertie. Amazing how people's lifes are all different and still in many ways so much resembling one another. I too come to think of dear old relations no longer with me, when I imagine her. And she certainly sounds like someone able to teach the Wickhams what it's all about! Only found it a little hard to think of Lizzy portioning out silk and wine to them. Though I know, they could certainly not be let loose."}, {"response": 138, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "Katy, I love your Aunt Bertie. She sounds like someone after my own heart, always open for an adventure even if it's only a dream. Please take her on the Pemberley tour and let us hear about her reactions!!;-)"}, {"response": 139, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (17:50)", "body": "Inko - only a dream - are you suggesting that the Pemberly tour did not really happen? Oh, ye of little faith. I am so please you like auntie Bertie. She is such a dear. I will tell her you wish her well."}, {"response": 140, "author": "Becks", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (22:40)", "body": "I would love to meet this amazing woman, katy, since she lives so close."}, {"response": 141, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:39)", "body": "An Enigma for you. Pray tell me who is he and who is she ? Clue: it starts with a D and an E!! ;=) Nothing had prepared him for the way she affected him, whenever he found himself in her company. He could hear that voice through the murmurs of a room full of people conversing. How he enjoyed her pert remarks and ironic comments accompanied by eyes sparkling and that bewitching laughter. He found that he was looking for opportunities to see her, hear her voice, speak to her, take in her scent when she walked by or was standing somewhere near him. As he stood there immovable and apparently indifferent , he was secretly hoping for a smile and a painful, elusive wish to touch her, hold her close made his blood burn. He became aware of one dark curl in the neck, of how narrow her waist was and how the material in her dress was softly following her body. His mouth got dry. Her eyes, ever so clear , swept over him and a faint blush coloured their faces , as if she was able to imagine his thoughts. Please be so kind as to overlook any peculiarities in the English language.)"}, {"response": 142, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:48)", "body": "Ann2!!! Oooh baby!! You go girl!"}, {"response": 143, "author": "Carine", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (03:47)", "body": "He became aware ... of how narrow her waist was ... Ann2: How did he know her waist was so narrow? I have always thought that those Regency dresses were comfortable precisely because you actually couldn't see the waist, and they made women looking taller. Carine"}, {"response": 144, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (03:54)", "body": "] How did he know her waist was so narrow? the pleasures of imagination and speculation! ;-)"}, {"response": 145, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (08:28)", "body": "Ann2- Your enigma is very lovely; thank you for sharing it! Gentle Readers: (This is part of another post elsewhere.) I hope readers of my booklet will not be put off (see note below), but my romance does contain explicit sex, which is why it will not appear here... I think Lizzy & Darcy will titillate each other and many readers (after all, Darcy has done extensive reading of continental fiction & nonfiction so he's quite knowedgeable, and Lizzy was ever an independent person...) Of course, one hopes you will not skip over the lakes' descriptive passages but read with the patience of a judge every line I penned... ;-) Your humble servant, Wendy (Wendysum@aol.com) (Note: I can create a different sex-hinted-at-only honeymoon part for those who'd prefer that version.)"}, {"response": 146, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (16:00)", "body": "The following is not as good as Wendy's, but I thought you might enjoy it. A Missing Guest Darcy stood by the window that overlook the entrance to Rosings. His vigil was rewarded when he spotted the party of Hunsford making its way up the lane. However, it did not take him long to discern that the one member of the party that he longed to see was not present. Darcy's long stride quickly carried him to the top of the staircase were he observed the arrival of the guests without being seen by them. He waited until they were taken into the drawing room, before he descended the staircase. He was not eager to join the assembled guests, though he was about to when he heard his aunt voicing the question he wanted to ask, so he remained outside the drawing room, eavesdropping on their conversation. \"And where is Miss Bennett?\" his aunt demanded to know. \"My cousin sends her most humblest apologies, for she was devastated not to be able to visit with you today, indeed, who would not feel ....\" Mr. Collins began. \"Where is Miss Bennett?\" Lady Catherine forcefully cut into Mr. Collins blathering. Darcy mentally thanked his aunt for the interruption. Charlotte began to speak, \"I am afraid that Miss Bennett has . . . \" \"Taken ill, which is why she had to forgo the very great pleasure of your company,\" Mr. Collins finished for his wife. If Miss Bennett is ill, then what are you doing here? thought Darcy, but he knew that Mr. Collins would leave his cousin at death's door to answer a summons from Lady Catherine, though he did not believe Mrs. Collins would leave her friend if she was truly in distress. \"It is just a headache,\" Charlotte said quickly, as if she was aware Darcy was listening, \"I believe that some rest is all that she needs.\" Darcy was relieved to hear this. Darcy could hear the servants approaching. He left the hall before anyone saw him, for he did not want to sit and listen to his aunt pontificate or Mr. Collins grovel. He returned to his room, retrieve his hat and gloves, went down the back stairs and out the side door. He eyes glanced down the lane toward the parsonage and he began to walk towards it."}, {"response": 147, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "Thanks, Carolyn. I have always wondered about the timing of the Hunsford Proposal- the mantle clock says 6.17- and whether Darcy walked out of Rosings before, after or during dinner.Now I know!Could you give us some clues as to what he said to himself on the way over?"}, {"response": 148, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (20:10)", "body": "Carolyn -- you know that a little bit only makes us want more! What say you to answering Caroline's question (#147) and maybe also Darcy's thoughts on the way back from Hunsford. Thank you for what you have given us. I truly did not mean to sound ungrateful. ;-)"}, {"response": 149, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (21:59)", "body": "Becks: glad you want to meet Auntie Bertie. if she EVER comes back from Pemberly, I will arrange an introduction. Wendy - Put me on the list for your book when you are ready to ship. kendall@usit.net Caroline and Ann2 - both are excellent. Thank you. Thin fabric will indeed show Darcy teasing glimpses of the lady's narrow waist. Caroline - you captured JA's voice showing us Darcy's reactions not just to the facts but also to the possibilities until he understands the entire story: If Miss Bennett is ill, then what are you doing here? thought Darcy, but he knew that Mr. Collins would leave his cousin at death's door ... though he did not believe Mrs. Collins would leave her friend if she was truly in distress. \"It is just a headache,\" Charlotte said quickly ... Darcy was relieved ... thank you, everyone for a 'great read'"}, {"response": 150, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (22:02)", "body": "I have been gone a little while and what happens? Stories galore and talent everywhere, that's what! As the original perpetrator of this topic 43's criminally flagrant tweaking of Dear Jane's P&P, I heartily congratulate one and all on the deluge of creative output recently! (And now, back to \"Ask Miss Bingley\" column...)"}, {"response": 151, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (22:14)", "body": "Welcome home Cecily - and God bless you for originating this thread."}, {"response": 152, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (23:24)", "body": "] Thin fabric will indeed show Darcy teasing glimpses of the lady's narrow waist. __ Quite so. JA herself I think described a shocking transparent costume in a letter, I think."}, {"response": 153, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (23:25)", "body": "Thank goodness, you are back Cecily. Liven this place up a little, will you? Folks have been complaining and I have not the inspiration for it at the moment."}, {"response": 154, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (11:45)", "body": "Ann2 - Lizzy doling out wine and silk? - of course not. She merely told Mrs. Reynolds to supply Derby-Glen with whatever it needed, and to use her own judgment if needs seemed extravagant. All good housekeepers have a little aunt Norris in them so Mrs. Reynolds rose to the occasion."}, {"response": 155, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (11:48)", "body": "Amy \"Thank goodness, you are back Cecily. Liven this place up a little, will you? Folks have been complaining and I have not the inspiration for it at the moment.\" Amy - are we that bad? I am astonished! I missed cecily too, but I thought the rest of us were carrying on rather well, myself"}, {"response": 156, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (12:00)", "body": "Katy, you are very flattering, but I must not take credit for Carolyn's work."}, {"response": 157, "author": "panache", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (12:28)", "body": "Dearest Katy: ]Amy \"Thank goodness, you are back Cecily. Liven this place up a little, will you? Folks have been complaining and I have not the inspiration for it at the moment.\" Amy - are we that bad? I am astonished! I missed cecily too, but I thought the rest of us were carrying on rather well, myself Surely Miss Amy was merely employing outrageous sarcastic humor in her remarks!! I think I may safely say that I have never seen a better collection of scenes and variety than the feast that met my eyes yesterday and my mind enjoyed savoring. And please, more Aunt Bertie and Missing Scene and Enigmas! My own brain feels quite faint with the possible reading pleasure in store from all of you, even those still working and lurking until voila! it shall appear. Yours waving a white flag, Cecily"}, {"response": 158, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "Certainly not, Katy. Please forgive me. I was referring to the conference in general and recent comments that posts are down and something new and of interactive interest ought to be employed. I certainly would never put down anybody's creative efforts. I am so embarrassed. I wrote without thinking. I love your story, Katy."}, {"response": 159, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (17:22)", "body": "Lizzy ..merely told Mrs. Reynolds...to use her own judgment...good housekeepers have a little aunt Norris in them ... smiling to myself with pleasure and relief, Katy. Thanks to Carolyn for those Darcy moments. He certainly spent a lot of time looking out through windows, and not only when he tried to escape the company or hide his face... Hi and good to see you Cecily! And...the fabric occasionally was rather thin and not every gown was all that loose around the waist...as I had a day's proof today actually. I've been lucky enough to see some of the costumes from recent Austen films . More about this on some other topic, when I have sorted my impressions."}, {"response": 160, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (20:01)", "body": "Caroline and Carolyn - I apologize to you both. I never could spell!!"}, {"response": 161, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (08:19)", "body": "PERMISSION GRANTED or THE VOICE OF AN ANGEL (part 1) Now here's a comfy cloud.I'll have another look to see what they are up to... New P&P2 scenes? I'll be very much surprised if it is anything at all in the line of what that seem to imply...Read, read, reflect, read ...oh!...no ... what ...read, read...is this to be endured? Read ...hmpff...LOL...ooh no, not like that ...but, all the same ...They do not mean any harm from what I gather , and they appear to be very fond of my Lizzy...and Darcy, to say the least. As a matter of fact, they all have the appearance of goodness ...and even if their creations are no pieces of ivory, but merely raw and clumsily rough-hewed bits of wood or hastily embroidered fluffy things, that will be torn appart after a short use. Who am I to hinder those sisters from Future from getting together and amuse themselves and one another? It would be very foolish and unwise of me to suspend any pleasure of theirs...."}, {"response": 162, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (08:29)", "body": "Hi Ann! Hastily embroidered fluffy things is a perfect description of my efforts! (I will do better next time)When are you going to try your luck?"}, {"response": 163, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (08:36)", "body": "THE VOICE OF AN ANGEL (part 2) ...Oh no, by no means will I do that. Why my own juvenile things were certainly not all for Eternity, and if we do not take the trouble to practise, we will never be able to perform ... One really clever thing will last, but two only moderately clever will soon pass away into Cyberspace and three very dull things ...though they might indeed cause some pain for a moment, will be gone with the wind before long ...what was that ...Gone with the wind?!...oh, how well that sounds...better make a note ...and mention it to Fanny and dear Margaret, she is such a romantic ...but I shall have to leave now. Must remember to see to them again soon. I have always been excessively diverted by ollies and nonsense, whims and inconsistencies and there is plenty to be had of it, at this board, I dare say."}, {"response": 164, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (08:46)", "body": "Hi Caroline, I'm doing my best to practise. That fluffy stuff can be nice to indulge in sometimes, don't you think? But you would not like it on a desert island."}, {"response": 165, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "Angel Ann- Your comments remind me of Lizzy's lines, \"I am sorry to hard on one of our sex, but there it is!\" and \"I speak as I find.\" To be sure, none of us can remotely pretend to be truly Austenesque in our scenes, not being her unique self and genius. But, though our efforts be mere practice at the pen's piano-forte -roughly hewn or fluffily embroidered- (and we know it), it is perhaps regrettable that we be told ambiguously that there is one really good/clever piece, two passable, three or so dul ... The ambiguity could lead to hurt feelings, resentment at the judgment implied, and a general decline in output here, though one would hope not. Was your intent to make us try harder? Pray tell."}, {"response": 166, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (13:58)", "body": "Oh Cecily! I had no idea of my words ever being taken in such a way. Thank you for telling me. Perhaps I must be more careful as I am translating my words(Swedish being my mothertounge) and probably, rather often use the first word that comes to my mind, without being able to understand small differences in meaning and nuance. ambiguity could lead to hurt feelings Please every creative pen on this board, this was meant as a joke. Angel=Austen and she is accepting and forgiving is she not. After all we are messing around with her characters and intensions, but I do not think she minds. It can not hurt her work. I tried to find words and sentences from her novels that would suit this joke. Was I wrong to take it for granted that the passage from Emma and Bow Hill is familiar to all? It did not enter my mind, that someone would suppose it referred to our actual efforts here in any critical way. Was your intent to make us try harder? No, I think everybody already tries and should be allowed to do so. Those who eventually do not wish to read it can read another topic. I am happy at every new attempt and have made some efforts myself (Nothing clever at all but such fun for me). Would I do that and not allow others to? How insufferably presumptuos that would be. I had a feeling that maybe someone considered us foolish and this was really sort of a defence for creative writing. Please notice that I am one of you. I like to do this and to read what others have written and maybe have a comment on your own fanthasies. Probably many of us have scripts of one sort or another hidden somewhere, and I regard it as a privilege to have access to this board. I would never do anything to hurt any of its members. Please do not hesitate to e-mail me, if you are still in doubt of my intension."}, {"response": 167, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (14:01)", "body": "I meant Box Hill of course..."}, {"response": 168, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (14:09)", "body": "Thanks Anna for your encouragement from your angel and from you. I've been trying to understand what made Darcy the way he was; here's the start of my attempt! YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY It is a truth universally acknowledged that a married man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a son. Thomas Darcy of Pemberley, in Derbyshire, was no exception to this truth, although he cared not whether a son or daughter were to be born so long as the child were healthy and his wife survived the ordeal. Mr. Darcy had been pacing his library throughout the long, fretful night. It was dawn before a knock at the door stopped his walking and Simmons, the butler, said: \"Congratulations, Sir! Lady Anne has been delivered of a fine, healthy boy and both are well.\" Mr. Darcy gave a deep sigh of relief as his countenance changed from frowning anxiety to one of the utmost happiness. \"Thank you Simmons. Please inform me when I may see Lady Anne and my son.\" \"A healthy son\" he thought when he was again alone, \"and Anne is well! What a happy outcome on such a beautiful spring morning.\" He sank into a comfortable chair to collect his thoughts. At twenty-eight he was a tall, good looking young man, with a pleasant disposition, made happier this past year by his marriage to Lady Anne Fitzwilliam. It had been two years since he had inherited the extensive Pemberley estate, a house in town, and an income of eight thousand pounds a year on the death of his father. The Darcys were known throughout the country as an old family dating its ancestry back to the days of William the Conqueror when the first d'Arcy had come from Normandy to settle in England. Some had distinguished themselves in battles; others as ministers at court. But recently their fame lay, for the most part, in their vast estate and the wealth it produced. Thomas Darcy's father had prudently sold all his property in the North American colonies and invested the monies in the West Indies before the start of the War of Independence, a wise move much envied by many of his friends. He had lived just long enough to hear of General Cornwallis' surrender and to realize that the colonies were irretrievably lost. Thomas Darcy recollected the past two years with some satisfaction. While his new duties as master of Pemberley had kept him in Derbyshire, he had not had far to search for a wife. He had known the Fitzwilliam family since he was a boy; he had played with and attended the same school as John Fitzwilliam, the second son of the Earl of M.... whose manor was only ten miles from Pemberley. The eldest son, Charles, heir to the old Earl, was three years older; and there were two younger daughters, Catherine and Anne. Catherine was five years Mr. Darcy's junior and John had hoped she might win his friend's affection. At one and twenty, she had been a fine looking young lady; she was fashionable, proud, opinionated, domineering, and utterly devoid of sympathetic feeling for others. Had he sought her hand in marriage he had little doubt she would have refused him; he lacked a title to go with his large estates and a title, she doubtless believed , was her due as the eldest daughter of an Earl. Anne, then just nineteen, had long been his favorite of the two. She was just as handsome, more accomplished, quieter, and considerably more amiable than her sister. While she retained some of the hauteur and sense of superiority which her family title afforded, she also had the sense to realize that she had no fortune attached to her name. When Thomas Darcy applied for her hand in marriage she was happy to accept him; she had an additional reason for joy;- no longer would she have to live in the shadow of her overbearing sister. They were married in May, coming home to Pemberley when all the flowers and trees were in full bloom and the park at its most beautiful. Now, as he gazed at the green lawns and new spring foliage on the trees, Edward Darcy thought that the twelfth of April, 1784, would indeed be a day to remember; a day that saw the birth of his son and the continued future of Pemberley."}, {"response": 169, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (14:09)", "body": "Thanks Anna for your encouragement from your angel and from you. I've been trying to understand what made Darcy the way he was; here's the start of my attempt! YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY It is a truth universally acknowledged that a married man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a son. Thomas Darcy of Pemberley, in Derbyshire, was no exception to this truth, although he cared not whether a son or daughter were to be born so long as the child were healthy and his wife survived the ordeal. Mr. Darcy had been pacing his library throughout the long, fretful night. It was dawn before a knock at the door stopped his walking and Simmons, the butler, said: \"Congratulations, Sir! Lady Anne has been delivered of a fine, healthy boy and both are well.\" Mr. Darcy gave a deep sigh of relief as his countenance changed from frowning anxiety to one of the utmost happiness. \"Thank you Simmons. Please inform me when I may see Lady Anne and my son.\" \"A healthy son\" he thought when he was again alone, \"and Anne is well! What a happy outcome on such a beautiful spring morning.\" He sank into a comfortable chair to collect his thoughts. At twenty-eight he was a tall, good looking young man, with a pleasant disposition, made happier this past year by his marriage to Lady Anne Fitzwilliam. It had been two years since he had inherited the extensive Pemberley estate, a house in town, and an income of eight thousand pounds a year on the death of his father. The Darcys were known throughout the country as an old family dating its ancestry back to the days of William the Conqueror when the first d'Arcy had come from Normandy to settle in England. Some had distinguished themselves in battles; others as ministers at court. But recently their fame lay, for the most part, in their vast estate and the wealth it produced. Thomas Darcy's father had prudently sold all his property in the North American colonies and invested the monies in the West Indies before the start of the War of Independence, a wise move much envied by many of his friends. He had lived just long enough to hear of General Cornwallis' surrender and to realize that the colonies were irretrievably lost. Thomas Darcy recollected the past two years with some satisfaction. While his new duties as master of Pemberley had kept him in Derbyshire, he had not had far to search for a wife. He had known the Fitzwilliam family since he was a boy; he had played with and attended the same school as John Fitzwilliam, the second son of the Earl of M.... whose manor was only ten miles from Pemberley. The eldest son, Charles, heir to the old Earl, was three years older; and there were two younger daughters, Catherine and Anne. Catherine was five years Mr. Darcy's junior and John had hoped she might win his friend's affection. At one and twenty, she had been a fine looking young lady; she was fashionable, proud, opinionated, domineering, and utterly devoid of sympathetic feeling for others. Had he sought her hand in marriage he had little doubt she would have refused him; he lacked a title to go with his large estates and a title, she doubtless believed , was her due as the eldest daughter of an Earl. Anne, then just nineteen, had long been his favorite of the two. She was just as handsome, more accomplished, quieter, and considerably more amiable than her sister. While she retained some of the hauteur and sense of superiority which her family title afforded, she also had the sense to realize that she had no fortune attached to her name. When Thomas Darcy applied for her hand in marriage she was happy to accept him; she had an additional reason for joy;- no longer would she have to live in the shadow of her overbearing sister. They were married in May, coming home to Pemberley when all the flowers and trees were in full bloom and the park at its most beautiful. Now, as he gazed at the green lawns and new spring foliage on the trees, Edward Darcy thought that the twelfth of April, 1784, would indeed be a day to remember; a day that saw the birth of his son and the continued future of Pemberley."}, {"response": 170, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "I don't know why this posted twice, unless it was the message I got after the first post saying DATA MISSING and to try and reload. I did, and voila - two posts. Sorry - but this goes so fast, I'm glad I got it in at all.;-)"}, {"response": 171, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "Inko,very clever. This is all before \"Fitzwilliam Darcy\" is born."}, {"response": 172, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (14:44)", "body": "Correct, Donna. He's born in the last paragraph above! Part 2 will follow shortly."}, {"response": 173, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (14:48)", "body": "Correct, Donna. He's born in the last paragraph above! Part 2 will follow shortly."}, {"response": 174, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (14:49)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY -- PART 2 After the doctor's departure, Thomas Darcy ran up the stairs to see his wife and meet his newborn son. Lady Anne was tired, indeed, but happy to see him and introduce him to their baby. In her arms he saw a small bundle with some dark hair and a rather sleepy, solemn look as if he were trying to get accustomed to this strange, new world. \"Would you mind very much if we call him Fitzwilliam?\" asked Lady Anne, \"I would so much like to connect my family name with yours.\" The happy father agreed but wondered how the boy would like it and what he would be called by his family and friends. But that could not worry him today; nothing could worry him today he thought as he left his wife and son in the care of a nurse and returned to his study and the running of Pemberley. Lady Anne's strength returned, Fitzwilliam flourished under the care of his nurse, and within three months Pemberley was alive with house parties; Thomas Darcy enjoyed company and Lady Anne was a gracious hostess. The Fitzwilliam brothers were frequent welcome visitors. John Fitzwilliam, a Colonel in the militia, was often with them since his return from North America. Charles Fitzwilliam would bring his family--his wife and their two little boys, six year old Frederick and four year old Edward. But Lady Anne had no happy anticipation for the visitors expected in August. Lady Catherine had married wealthy Sir Lewis de Bourgh, of Rosings in Kent, six months before and they were to come to Pemberley for the first day of the grouse shooting season. However much Lady Anne was eager to show off her son, she feared that her sister would tax her patience and sap her strength. At four months Fizwilliam was an active baby, smiling at his mother and father and gurgling happily whenever he was with them. But no smile could be coaxed from him for Lady Catherine. The latter had all manner of advice for her sister; \"the nurse is too lenient\", she told Lady Anne, \"she does not make him wait the alloted time before letting him feed again\"; \"he should not have so much freedom as to turn himself over\"; \"too much air is unhealthy for children, you should cover him with more blankets\" were some of her admonishments. When Mr. Darcy intervened on his wife's behalf reminding Lady Catherine that, as yet, she had no child, the latter pointed out that while her sister was a tolerably good mother, she would be a truly proficient one; her child would be stronger, better looking, and more intelligent than any other."}, {"response": 175, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (15:32)", "body": "Sorry to interrupt,but ANN did not offend me. I have told her so. I thought her joke was GREAT! Inko, don't stop now!"}, {"response": 176, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (15:42)", "body": "Oh good. Thanks Caroline for saying so, Caroline."}, {"response": 177, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:18)", "body": "Ann2-- I am sure Cecily was just teasing you as we know you were just teasing us...I assure you there was no offense given or taken! :-)"}, {"response": 178, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (18:49)", "body": "Inko: The birth of Mr. Darcy - lovely. Yes, Lady C would be a truly proficient mother when she had a child. ROTFLOL - too many blankets, not enough food, and no fresh air!!!! no wonder poor Anne was so sickly!!! come, come - surely you have constructed the 'betrothal in the cradles' scene. Ann2: Your little bit of fluff was delightful. I would gladly describe my own offerings as 'One really clever thinG ... two only moderately clever ... and three very dull things ' were I not afraid someone might argue against there being even one very clever thing!! But this is our practice page, is it not - for those of us who have read and years and always thought we might ... like to try our hand at writing? Love you all for letting me practice on this old pianoforte in Mrs. Jenning's room."}, {"response": 179, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "Katy, glad you like my effort. The betrothal in cradle scene is now under construction. Eventually, I hope, this effort will continue through various stages up to the start of P&P if I don't run out of ideas and time first!;-)"}, {"response": 180, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (20:54)", "body": "Don't worry, Inko - if you should run out of ideas, some one on the list will surely supply you with more!!!"}, {"response": 181, "author": "jane", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (20:54)", "body": "Thank you all for your creative efforts. I enjoy it all, especially that you all go to this effort largely, I suspect, for the purpose of amusing us. That is true generousity for you. That is what I call gentlewomanly behavior."}, {"response": 182, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (21:30)", "body": "Inko, are you going to take the line literally? \"While in their cradles, we planned the union.\" Are you going to have Ladys Anne and Catherine sitting in their children's cradles?"}, {"response": 183, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "HC, did you say you had the cartoon of the Ladies in cradles -- or just that it appeared in the journal?"}, {"response": 184, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (22:05)", "body": "Ann, Cheryl, Amy, Caroline, Inko, Tout le monde- Sorry, it took me five minutes to \"get my foot out of my mouth, the egg off my face, and stop pushing the pull-only door\"- meaning in American slang get over my stupid klutzy ill-timed and embarrassing failure above. (A medical buddy of mine used to joke when things got really weird that \"the moon must be in Anger\" or, in this case, \"the moon must be in Embarrassment\", as opposed to the usual astrological phrase like \"moon in Aquarius\" to explain why things are going odd.) ANYWAY, like Cheryl said in #17 , teasing sometimes bombs and so it's MY turn to apologize, which I do. Inko, it's terrific to get background thoughts on little Fitz (Fits?)! (Where's my chocolate fix? Cecily mumbled glassy-eyed, on her way to the kitchen)"}, {"response": 185, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "]why things are going odd ANYWAY, like Cheryl said in #177. that's #177, not #17 (See? I TOLD you moon was in Embarrassment!)"}, {"response": 186, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (22:32)", "body": "Ann, ROTFLOL I never thought of it that way. What a good idea! Wonder if I can incorporate it, but I'm afraid Lady C wouldn't fit into Anne's cradle! Cecily, we love you whatever phase the moon is in!;-)"}, {"response": 187, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (23:51)", "body": "Moon in embarrassment. I like that a lot."}, {"response": 188, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (01:28)", "body": "Just one more word on this... For Cecily, Caroline, Cheryl,Katy, Inko (was I glad to see your contribution It made me hope, as I had scarce allowed myself to hope before, that the writings would continue...),Amy and Jane. Your words helped to lift one heavy stone from my breast...Thank you all. And Ann's cradle suggestion gave relief through laughter...I can just see Lady Cath, legs crossed under her chin and solemny convincing her sister of the benefits from uniting land and such high connections..."}, {"response": 189, "author": "summit", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (09:05)", "body": "To divert the mood back to the land and persons we love in P&P2, here's another snippet (mild)... Her mother and sisters, Lydia in particular, were soon after thrilled to receive a long awaited invitation to a ball at Netherfield. The entire family, including cousin Mr. Collins (who was visiting their home as a means to assessing his future abode and a possible wife among the sisters), dressed with elaborateness their persons. Lizzy, in the hopes of seeing George Wickham, prepared with exceeding care, despite her required two dances with Mr. Collins and Lydia's pouting insistence that she not have all the dances with Wickham. On the way up Netherfield front stairs, she was impatiently watched by Mr. Darcy, who had been standing by an upper window nearly half an hour to see her arrival. He could hardly contain himself when he saw her, she looked so ravishing in her cloak; he heard her amused laughter as her father murmured a final ironic observation before the door. With an effort he remained where he was, as a show of the will he was trying to employ now that she was there, and then he proceeded to the ballroom... [next part] Lizzy was terrbily disappointed when she learned from Sgt. Denny that Wickham was not to attend the ball. This loss was followed by the embarrassment of having to dance with Mr. Collins, who turned out to be as bad a dancer as he was cardplayer. Indeed, her misery and his clumsiness were noticed by many, including Mr. Darcy who smiled ironically when he saw his fair lady paired with such a scuttling beetle. He determined to request a dance with her himself, knowing his own skill in the art to be more han acceptable and wishing to have the opportunity of closeness with her, however brief and moderate. He came upon her talking to her friend Charlotte Lucas after her fiasco with Mr. Collins. Miss Eliza seemd not to have noticed his approach; so intent was she on her conversation that she turned red when she saw him and seemed out of sorts as he asked for the next dance. When she finally managed to accept, he bowed and left, fortunately not hearing her next remarks nor Charlotte's before the music signalled the dancers. A more careful onlooker than those merrymakers then present would have observed the resigned modesty with which Lizzy took her place at the opening bars, eyes downcast. But there was not such reserve in Darcy's gaze, which leapt across the distance between them like lightning through summer's grass, searing everything in its path. His hand, seizing her gloved one on the first pass, gave her such a literal shock that her eyes flew open wide as they crossed each other. Not trusting himself to speak, Darc proceeded with the steps, subtly sensing every turn of her body and inhaling her light fragrance as she neared. Lizzy, though still put out at his treatment of Wickham, could not help noticing what a fine figure of a man he was and how his eyes had a curious light in them whenever she glanced their way. This latter drove her to attempt conversation, in the hopes of returning him to what she conceived to be his former argumentative self, one less stressful to her than this intense side he was now showing. Her plan succeeded in part: by the end of the dance and her comments on Wickham and implacability, Darcy's mood was crabbier, all the more after Sir William Lucas's comments about the supposed bright future together of Jane and Charles. Unluckily, the rest of the evening was spoilt for her as well when members of her family made spectacles of themselves by various poor behaviors.."}, {"response": 190, "author": "summit", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (09:15)", "body": "a second snippet from later (pulse a bit faster)... She had not been at Hunsford more than a fortnight of repetitive days and nights when newcomers arrived at Rosings. Lizzy learnt of this while walking on the grounds with Charlotte and Maria Lucas: Mr. Collins ran awkwardly towards them, shouting that Mr. Darcy and his cousin Col. Fitzwilliam were even then approaching the house to pay a call. Charlotte was insistent that her friend was the reason behind Mr. Darcy's early visit, but Lizzy disagreed, saying ironically she was sure he disliked he as much as she did him. For his part, Darcy had been much alone with his thoughts during the months since he had last seen Miss Elizabeth Bennet. A man not given to sharing aloud his burdens at any time, it was particularly so when he fell in love, a sensation entirely new to him. To his friend Charles Bingley he could say nothing, having himself been instrumental in removing Charles from Netherfield and the mistake of proposing to Miss Jane Bennet, (she of the pretty face, cool demeanor, and odious family, as Caroline ut it). To his cousin Col. Fitzwilliam, Darcy had only said enough in the way of courteous compliments to let him know Miss Eliza was a remarkable young lady of talent and beauty whom he very much admired--- and let it go at that. Other than this, Darcy had kept very much to himself: by day, analytically mulling over her family, faults, and verbal sharpness; by night, meditating dementedly on her charms of face and form, touch and scent, until sleep would release him from the endless cycle. And here she was at last, just across the room at Hunsford talking peacefully with his cousin. Oh lucky man! Darcy thought almost bitterly, as his hungry eyes swept her bewitching features for any sign of interest in himself, and the querulous voice of Mr. Collins droned on ceaselessly to him about Lady Catherine. Elizabeth, you shall drive me mad if you do not attend to me! A moment later, she turned to look at him briefly, asking his cousin why Mr. Darcy stared at her so often. Seeing n opening, Darcy rose, crossed the room with a tiger's stalk, and managed to ask after her family. Upon hearing her reply and further question about his not having seen Jane when in London, he answered tersely in the negative and then abruptly walked away. His discomfort was only increased by Miss Eliza's assertion to a mildly surprised Col Fitzwilliam that they were not such close friends[]..."}, {"response": 191, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (12:15)", "body": "Mmmmm! \"meditating dementedly\" !A lovely phrase! Darcy is being pulled two ways,and what could be more indicative than to meditate in a demented manner?Gee, I love this topic!!"}, {"response": 192, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (16:13)", "body": "Five year old Fitzwilliam ran up the steps and into the house hurrying to tell his father about the fish he had caught in the stream; he skipped through the hall and into the study without bothering to knock as he called \"Father, you must see ...\" before coming to a sudden halt. Mr. Darcy was not alone. \"Fitzwilliam!\" his father said severely, \"did I not tell you to knock before entering my study?\" \"Sorry, father, but ...\" the boy replied, with a mischievous grin; then he noticed his father's very ser ous and rather sad demeanor and the doctor who stood beside him looked equally serious. \"Oops!\" he muttered and left the study quietly to seek out his mother; perhaps she would listen to his story of how he had caught his first fish. As fast as he could, he ran upstairs and along the corridor where he bumped headlong into Mrs. Reynolds' skirt. \"Take care, Master Darcy\" she said quietly, \"your mother is quite unwell today and must not be disturbed. That is why the doctor is now with your father\" she ex lained. \"Oh, I'm sorry\" Fitzwilliam replied, \"I will go upstairs then and tell Miss Field about my fish!\" Mrs. Reynolds, who had joined the Pemberley staff as housekeeper the year before, watched the young master heading upstairs to the nursery-schoolroom area of the house. She thought it was a shame that yet again there would be no brother or sister for him, no companion to play with. This was the third time that Lady Anne had lost a child. When the young master was a year and a half she had miscarried just three months before the baby's birth; then when he had been a little over three years old, Lady An e had had a still-born son; and today she had miscarried yet again. \"It is lucky that he is too young to realize his parents' loss\" thought Mrs. Reynolds, returning to her duties of organizing the staff at this difficult time. Fitzwilliam however had understood what Mrs. Reynolds said. It meant that his parents would be sad for a while and would cling to him rather more tightly than felt comfortable. He was a happy boy with a very good understanding and a quick mind. His nurse had been superseded by a governess, Miss Field, two years before; she had taught him to read and write, simple arithmetic and some basic history and geography. When he was forced to stay indoors, Fitzwilliam liked reading above everything; he enjoyed any good story, especially a true story from history. When the weather was dry, Fitzwilliam liked to be outside fishing in the stream and lake, or better yet riding his pony. He had learnt to ride when he was four years old; the groom had walked beside the pony at a gentle pace at first but Fitzwilliam had soon wanted to go faster and faster. Thereafter, the groom would ride beside him; but the boy was always happiest when riding beside his father. They would visit some of the tenants and Fitz, as his father called him when alone together, would listen t the conversations--his father asking after the tenant's health and welfare, the condition of their house, and any needs that he could help meet. Riding back to the main house, Mr. Darcy would point out the various fields to his son, teaching him which crops were best suited to each area, which trees needed to be cut down or pruned, or which stream bank needed clearing; although he was very young for so much information, these talks instilled in Fitzwilliam a love of these lands quite equal to that of hi father's. When his father was in town or otherwise engaged, Fitzwilliam liked to be in the company of Edward Fitzwilliam. Although he was then nine years old, Edward was very kind to his younger cousin and the two would often ride or fish together. But Edward would go away to school in another year; his brother was even then at Eton and only returned home for the holidays."}, {"response": 193, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "Five year old Fitzwilliam ran up the steps and into the house hurrying to tell his father about the fish he had caught in the stream; he skipped through the hall and into the study without bothering to knock as he called \"Father, you must see ...\" before coming to a sudden halt. Mr. Darcy was not alone. \"Fitzwilliam!\" his father said severely, \"did I not tell you to knock before entering my study?\" \"Sorry, father, but ...\" the boy replied, with a mischievous grin; then he noticed his father's very ser ous and rather sad demeanor and the doctor who stood beside him looked equally serious. \"Oops!\" he muttered and left the study quietly to seek out his mother; perhaps she would listen to his story of how he had caught his first fish. As fast as he could, he ran upstairs and along the corridor where he bumped headlong into Mrs. Reynolds' skirt. \"Take care, Master Darcy\" she said quietly, \"your mother is quite unwell today and must not be disturbed. That is why the doctor is now with your father\" she ex lained. \"Oh, I'm sorry\" Fitzwilliam replied, \"I will go upstairs then and tell Miss Field about my fish!\" Mrs. Reynolds, who had joined the Pemberley staff as housekeeper the year before, watched the young master heading upstairs to the nursery-schoolroom area of the house. She thought it was a shame that yet again there would be no brother or sister for him, no companion to play with. This was the third time that Lady Anne had lost a child. When the young master was a year and a half she had miscarried just three months before the baby's birth; then when he had been a little over three years old, Lady An e had had a still-born son; and today she had miscarried yet again. \"It is lucky that he is too young to realize his parents' loss\" thought Mrs. Reynolds, returning to her duties of organizing the staff at this difficult time. Fitzwilliam however had understood what Mrs. Reynolds said. It meant that his parents would be sad for a while and would cling to him rather more tightly than felt comfortable. He was a happy boy with a very good understanding and a quick mind. His nurse had been superseded by a governess, Miss Field, two years before; she had taught him to read and write, simple arithmetic and some basic history and geography. When he was forced to stay indoors, Fitzwilliam liked reading above everything; he enjoyed any good story, especially a true story from history. When the weather was dry, Fitzwilliam liked to be outside fishing in the stream and lake, or better yet riding his pony. He had learnt to ride when he was four years old; the groom had walked beside the pony at a gentle pace at first but Fitzwilliam had soon wanted to go faster and faster. Thereafter, the groom would ride beside him; but the boy was always happiest when riding beside his father. They would visit some of the tenants and Fitz, as his father called him when alone together, would listen t the conversations--his father asking after the tenant's health and welfare, the condition of their house, and any needs that he could help meet. Riding back to the main house, Mr. Darcy would point out the various fields to his son, teaching him which crops were best suited to each area, which trees needed to be cut down or pruned, or which stream bank needed clearing; although he was very young for so much information, these talks instilled in Fitzwilliam a love of these lands quite equal to that of hi father's. When his father was in town or otherwise engaged, Fitzwilliam liked to be in the company of Edward Fitzwilliam. Although he was then nine years old, Edward was very kind to his younger cousin and the two would often ride or fish together. But Edward would go away to school in another year; his brother was even then at Eton and only returned home for the holidays."}, {"response": 194, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (16:37)", "body": "From: kathleen Carolyn -- you know that a little bit only makes us want more! What say you to answering Caroline's question (#147 Could you give us some clues as to what he said to himself on the way over?) and maybe also Darcy's thoughts on the way back from Hunsford. Thank you for what you have given us. Your welcome. I did try to do Darcy on the way over the parsonage, but it just was coming out all wrong, so I deleted from the scene I submitted. Though I will probably go back and work on it. I do have another scene ready though. I hope you and everyone else likes it. Bingley's proposal--Part 1 \"You're needed upstairs, Miss Elizabeth,\" Hill relayed the message from Mrs. Bennett and curtsied. Bingley rose as Lizzie got up from her seat. She reluctantly left Jane with Mr. Bingley. Bingley resumed his seat across from Jane. An awkward silence descended upon the drawing room. Both Jane and Bingley started to speak once, but stammered in confusion. They both blushed. Jane lowered her eyes, \"Please, Mr. Bingley, do speak first.\" \"Miss Bennett--Jane,\" he began somewhat hesitantly as if seeking permission to address her so informally. When she nodded, he began again. \"Jane, I have just learned you were in London last winter. Please believe me that had I known you were there, I would certainly have called upon you.\" \"But Caroline,\" Jane began with some surprise, but stopped abruptly. It would not do to speak ill of his sister. She folded her hand together and stared at the floor. Bingley got up from seat and moved across the space separating him from Jane. He took the seat next her. He gently place a finger under her chin to turn her face towards him. He looked into her eyes and stated, \"If I had known you were in London, nothing would have kept me from calling upon you.\" Jane blushed and tried to look away. Bingley kept her face turned toward him. \"I would have returned to Netherfield last winter, had not I been wrongly persuaded that you held no more than a passing affection for myself, and, I must confess,\" Bingley had some trouble saying what he wanted to say, \" I thought that you felt, I had hoped for, I wanted more from you, because,\" Bingley took a deep breath, \"I loved you, Jane, I am still in love with you,\" the words came out in a rush. He could see tears in Jane's eyes. He dropped his hand and looked away from her, feeling stricken, maybe Darcy and his sisters had been right the first time. \"I am sorry,\" he began, starting to get up from the chair, when he felt Jane's hand on his arm. She smiled through her tears, \"I have dreamed of this moment but did not believe that it would ever be possible.\" Bingley was greatly relieved, \"Then I can hope that return some of my affection?\" Jane, unable to speak, nodded. \"Jane, would you do me the very great honor of consenting to become my wife?\" Bingley asked."}, {"response": 195, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (17:34)", "body": "Carolyn! why who would have thought what a romantic devil Bingley was! Thanks! :-)"}, {"response": 196, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (18:40)", "body": "What a delight to come home and read all these new P&P scenes. You all have great imaginations and creative energy that I wish I possessed. Anyway thanks for the scenes and keep them coming, they brighten up my evening."}, {"response": 197, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "Carolyn -- that is terrific. I agree w/ Cheryl: you have made Bingley very romantic indeed. Capital, capital! Inko -- what a delight to read the childhood stories of our Darcy. Very charming. Wendy -- how wonderful to look at the story again in this way. To all the creative writeres: wonderful, marvelous, and pray do continue to entertain us. (It is so very diverting!)"}, {"response": 198, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:49)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY -- PART 4 The Darcys' annual Easter visit to Rosings had been postponed that year. They had instead decided to visit Sir Lewis and Lady Catherine in the autumn and to take young Fitzwilliam with them to meet his nine-month old cousin Anne. It was Fitzwilliam's first long journey from home and he was fascinated by all the new scenery on their way south. He had been used to the wild peaks of Derbyshire; the gentler rolling hills and lush green fields of the southern counties were something new. He chatted away t his parents about everything he saw, asked endless questions and listened to their answers with rapt attention. He could not remember that he had ever spent so much time with both his parents or had received so much of their undivided attention as he had that day. Lady Anne had smiled at her son with pride and tried to hide her fear that he might be their only child; she was determined that no harm should ever come to him and had attempted to curb his outdoor pursuits. Thomas Darcy had felt the same fear but had decided not to interfere with his son's manly endeavours; he had only advised his grooms and gardeners to keep a close watch on him to be sure of his safety. The family interrupted their journey into Kent at their house in town and Fitzwilliam was awed by his first sight of London--the streets full of fashionable people and carriages, the houses so close to one another, the big palaces at St. James and Whitehall, the Abbey at Westminster and all the shops in Bond Street soon became a jumble of impressions. Two days later their carriage arrived at Rosings where they were welcomed by Lady Catherine and Sir Lewis. After making his bow to them Fitzwilliam's first question was \"why are your shrubs cut in such peculiar shapes?\" Lady Catherine decided to overlook this lapse in manners and led the way into the morning room. \"Careful what you say, Fitz!\" whispered Mr. Darcy to his son, holding him back in the hall before Miss Field took the boy off to his room. The Darcy's were introduced to Anne de Bourgh later that day. The parents paid the customary compliments, however little truth lay therein; but Fitzwilliam with his usual frankness exclaimed \"Anne is very small, and pale and sick-looking; she does not even smile!\" This was too much for Lady Catherine. She swept from the room and left the Darcys to deal with their son. Lady Anne took Fitzwilliam off to her room and told him, very seriously \"William, if you can not say something complimentary or kind about someone, it would be better not to say anything at all!\" In private he had long been William to his mother. \"But, Mother, you have always told me to tell the absolute truth!\" \"True, dear, but in such cases as these, where the truth is hurtful and impolite, it would be better not to say anything. Do you understand?\" \"Yes, Mother, I will try. But it is going to be very difficult here\" he replied. \"Listen to your mother, Fitz\" said Mr. Darcy entering the room. \"I am sure you will not disappoint us.\""}, {"response": 199, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:50)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY -- PART 4 The Darcys' annual Easter visit to Rosings had been postponed that year. They had instead decided to visit Sir Lewis and Lady Catherine in the autumn and to take young Fitzwilliam with them to meet his nine-month old cousin Anne. It was Fitzwilliam's first long journey from home and he was fascinated by all the new scenery on their way south. He had been used to the wild peaks of Derbyshire; the gentler rolling hills and lush green fields of the southern counties were something new. He chatted away t his parents about everything he saw, asked endless questions and listened to their answers with rapt attention. He could not remember that he had ever spent so much time with both his parents or had received so much of their undivided attention as he had that day. Lady Anne had smiled at her son with pride and tried to hide her fear that he might be their only child; she was determined that no harm should ever come to him and had attempted to curb his outdoor pursuits. Thomas Darcy had felt the same fear but had decided not to interfere with his son's manly endeavours; he had only advised his grooms and gardeners to keep a close watch on him to be sure of his safety. The family interrupted their journey into Kent at their house in town and Fitzwilliam was awed by his first sight of London--the streets full of fashionable people and carriages, the houses so close to one another, the big palaces at St. James and Whitehall, the Abbey at Westminster and all the shops in Bond Street soon became a jumble of impressions. Two days later their carriage arrived at Rosings where they were welcomed by Lady Catherine and Sir Lewis. After making his bow to them Fitzwilliam's first question was \"why are your shrubs cut in such peculiar shapes?\" Lady Catherine decided to overlook this lapse in manners and led the way into the morning room. \"Careful what you say, Fitz!\" whispered Mr. Darcy to his son, holding him back in the hall before Miss Field took the boy off to his room. The Darcy's were introduced to Anne de Bourgh later that day. The parents paid the customary compliments, however little truth lay therein; but Fitzwilliam with his usual frankness exclaimed \"Anne is very small, and pale and sick-looking; she does not even smile!\" This was too much for Lady Catherine. She swept from the room and left the Darcys to deal with their son. Lady Anne took Fitzwilliam off to her room and told him, very seriously \"William, if you can not say something complimentary or kind about someone, it would be better not to say anything at all!\" In private he had long been William to his mother. \"But, Mother, you have always told me to tell the absolute truth!\" \"True, dear, but in such cases as these, where the truth is hurtful and impolite, it would be better not to say anything. Do you understand?\" \"Yes, Mother, I will try. But it is going to be very difficult here\" he replied. \"Listen to your mother, Fitz\" said Mr. Darcy entering the room. \"I am sure you will not disappoint us.\""}, {"response": 200, "author": "moonshine", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:02)", "body": "I like everyone's stories. Ann's Angel is sweet and little Fitz is, too."}, {"response": 201, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY -- PART 5 A few days later Fitzwilliam, returning from his morning walk, overheard a conversation between the two mothers; they were standing one on each side of Anne's cradle. \"Anne would make a perfect wife for Fitzwilliam\" Lady Catherine announced. \"Perhaps -- but they are as yet very young. Perhaps, in time, if they have any feelings for each other. . .\" Lady Anne said doubtfully. \"Nonsense! What have feelings to do with it. They are made for each other; indeed their families and fortunes demand such a union. If we arrange it now, it shall be so!\" Lady Catherine would brook no opposition. \"I would not wish Fitzwilliam to marry without love,\" Lady Anne responded; she had never been able to argue her sister out of a scheme once she had put her mind to it. \"But if, when they are both old enough, he does care for her, then I would have no objection and I am sure Thomas would have none.\" \"Good. That is settled then. Of course Fitzwilliam will love Anne if we tell him he does!\" was Lady Catherine's last word on the subject only adding \"you have always been far too lenient with him Anne. His rudeness today quite shocked me!\" \"I have already talked to him about that, Catherine.\" \"Good. You can not be too firm with him. He must learn to respect his nearest relations; he is altogether too free with his questions and comments. You must curb his spirit, Anne!\" Fitzwilliam hurried down the corridor amazed at what he had overheard. \"Marry that sickly little baby\" he thought. \"My aunt Catherine must be out of her wits. She will not make me do anything I do not want to do, especially when I am of age!\" He straightened his shoulders in a very determined manner and marched off in search of Miss Field and some more childlike amusement. The three weeks in Kent were not happy ones for Fitzwilliam. There was no pony for him to ride, no lake or stream to fish, just walks and those in an artificial garden where play was impossible. His parents had not wished him to walk beyond the bounds of the home park, fearful for his safety in a strange area. And when in the house, if he was ever near his hostess, he had remained firmly silent; he had been determined to please his mother and father but had not wanted to lie and had not found anything complimentary to say about the house or grounds. He rarely saw his host, and he also avoided his cousin as much as possible; she cried a great deal too much, was rarely allowed outside and only for a few minutes at a time, and not allowed to play when indoors. \"She might as well be a doll to be put on a shelf,\" he thought and wondered whether she would ever be allowed any freedom once she could walk and talk. Finally the happy day arrived when the Darcys said farewell to Lady Caroline, Sir Lewis, and Anne. Fitzwilliam gave a big sigh of relief as their carriage rolled out of the gates on the way back to London and then home to Pemberley."}, {"response": 202, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:44)", "body": "Carolyn- thank you so much. Nice-legs-shame-about-the-brain doesn't get the attention he deserves,usually. Neither does Jane. I would like to submit a scene entitled \"To Kitty, however, it did not seem so much of a surprise\". When Inko has finished. Little Fitz is just too delightful to interrupt!"}, {"response": 203, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "Caroline, please don't hesitate to interrupt. I won't be posting any more today because I'm still working on page 6. Heavens knows how long this will be, but I'm having so much fun writing it. Sometimes I find the characters take over and say things I'd never have dreamed up - particularly Lady Catherine!;-)"}, {"response": 204, "author": "sld", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (21:04)", "body": "BRAVO, Inko."}, {"response": 205, "author": "kendall", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (22:30)", "body": "Inko, I love it. Little Fitz thinking \"My aunt Catherine must be out of her wits.\" - great!!"}, {"response": 206, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (22:44)", "body": "Thanks Katy and everyone who likes little Fitz. I must say I'm very fond of him myself! CORRECTIONS - Already found two mistakes after posting!! Part 1: Last paragraph: Edward Darcy should read Thomas Darcy. Part 5: Last paragraph: Lady Caroline should read Lady Catherine What could I have been thinking??"}, {"response": 207, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (23:41)", "body": "I've always assumed Darcy's father's name was George--as in his god-son George Wickham, and his daughter Georgiana. If it was tradition to give the son his mother's maiden name, then perhaps they named the daughter after the father."}, {"response": 208, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (06:48)", "body": "Inko: Here's a suggestion to help when posting your stories. You said, (Response 170) I don't know why this posted twice, unless it was the message I got after the first post saying DATA MISSING and to try and reload. I did, and voila - two posts. When it says DATA MISSING, do NOT hit Reload button. Instead, hit Back button once (or twice) to see what your first post looks like. Otherwise, the Reload button reposts your story a second time. Like everyone's efforts on this topic; it's like coming home to fresh fun every evening, as Lisa said. :-)"}, {"response": 209, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (14:18)", "body": "Aahh, what a deligthful little boy, you have let us meet, Inko. I find him so loveable, but then we have always heard that they who are goodnatured when they are young, are attractive when they grow up ;-) She will not make me do anything I do not want to do, especially when I am of age!\" He straightened his shoulders in a very determined manner and marched off... I like that picture very well. And am eagerly awaiting what he is to experience next. Carolyn I'm so happy for Jane, that there is such a man for her. When is that Kitty scene to appear...please don't tease Caroline!"}, {"response": 210, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (19:11)", "body": "But, Inko - how are you going to turn this delightful little boy into the stand-offish snob who comes to netherfield?"}, {"response": 211, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (20:44)", "body": "Sorry Katy, you'll just have to wait and see!! I have several ideas, the main one being is he really a stand-offish snob? He comes across as that to us, but there's more to him than meets the eye, IMHO. In the meantime, however, he still has several stages to go through and I haven't yet finished the next part. Sorry - got busy with other things today."}, {"response": 212, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (20:46)", "body": "The gif was meant to be:"}, {"response": 213, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (18:31)", "body": "Inko, are you going to give Darcy a romantic adventure during his years before Lizzie? Are you finally going to solve the mystery of whether or not Darcy was experienced before his wedding night?"}, {"response": 214, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (20:06)", "body": "Lisa, I really think that a man of 27 (age when he met Lizzie) would have had some experience!! Yes, he'll definitely have some adventure, but I'm not sure how romantic it will be; probably more like a pleasant interlude for learning the ways of the world with an older woman!! Does that whet your appetite? I'm a bit slow right now because I found I had to go back and do a lot of research on education, etc., which is different to Victorian times. Hope to post again by the weekend."}, {"response": 215, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (00:24)", "body": "Katy--where oh where is Aunt Bertie? I'm missing her! :-("}, {"response": 216, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "Dear Mr. Darcy: The indignation solicited by your missive knows no bounds. That a man heretofore well known to all as honourable, de riguer, and of great intelligence should allow a momentary infatuation to render him so lost to the use his good judgement, as to inflict such degradation upon himself and his family - it is insupportable. Such an alliance shall not be borne! I implore you to come to your senses. If you will only consider that that woman has but enticed you with her arts and allurements - it is nothing less than wiles on her part. She can have no true regard for you to so impose herself on a society far above her own inferiority, against all sense of decorem and to all that is an abomination! She is in truth but an obstinate, headstrong upstart of no importance in the world who wilfully wishes to ruin you utterly. It is my Duty, as such a near relation, to recall you to your obligations to your position and to that which you owe to yourself and to your family. By honour should you be adhered to the tacit expectations of those near to you. Better to renounce such offers as would so pollute the lineage of your dear mother and father than to excite the disdain and vexation of everyone. I am Most grievously disappointed in you, Lady Catherine de Bourgh"}, {"response": 217, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (18:49)", "body": "Inko, that sounds interesting. I wait for your next installment with great anticipation."}, {"response": 218, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (08:47)", "body": "Thanks, Sharon and now you'll have to give us the details from Darcy's meeting with his aunt after she saw Lizzy ;-). We are never content you know!"}, {"response": 219, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (09:24)", "body": "Can hardly wait for it, Ann."}, {"response": 220, "author": "panache", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (09:37)", "body": "Editorial Comment Something said on another topic thread set me thinking recently, so I wish to comment on it here, as it might pertain to some of our scene writers. This topic #43 was started in the belief that 1) it would provide entertainment (which it has); 2) Austen's P&P, being 200+ - years old, is fair game to extend or reinterpret as each new writer (amateur or professional) sees fit (again, which we have here). I suppose my only concern is that, despite the advent of a book like Janet Aylmer's, we maintain ur own right to create names, prequels, \"during-quels,\" and sequels as WE choose, and not feel we must follow another's lead in the matter. Basically, KEEP GOING FOR YOUR OWN INTERPRETIVE GENIUS, EVERYBODY! The variety here is exciting! :-)"}, {"response": 221, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "'. I suppose my only concern is that, despite the advent of a book like Janet Aylmer's, we maintain our own right to create names, prequels, \"during-quels,\" and sequels as WE choose, and not feel we must follow another's lead in the matter. Basically, KEEP GOING FOR YOUR OWN INTERPRETIVE GENIUS,' Huh?"}, {"response": 222, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "I think I see your meaning, Cecily. I have been a bit reluctant to order the Darcy book, thinking that once I've read it it would all be over.Sort of finally telling the one and only truth about the inner Darcy. But of course that can not be so. We need not care if we chose not to. Am just a tiny bit scared that Janet Aylmer(?) has done it too darned well. One endearing thing about Jane Austen's novels is the space she allows for her reader to use her/his own creative mind, not necessarily in print but contemplating the characters on a train; while you're washing or going to sleep. Of course we can have as many different scene's - on each particular moment in this story - as we wish. And I hope there are a lot more to come."}, {"response": 223, "author": "summit", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "I completely agree with Ann2 (and by extension, Cecily). Each of our invenions alla P&P has its \"place in the sun\" and voice to be heard."}, {"response": 224, "author": "summit", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (19:25)", "body": "sorry: inventions, not invenions!"}, {"response": 225, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (19:42)", "body": "So Wendy, how is your effort coming along?"}, {"response": 226, "author": "summit", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (19:47)", "body": "Let me put it this way: Ever been in heavy surf that keeps pushing you back two steps for every step forward?! ;-)"}, {"response": 227, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "Well, Hang in there!"}, {"response": 228, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (20:26)", "body": "re 226; try the rip..."}, {"response": 229, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (21:00)", "body": "Wendy, I know what you mean. I've just had a week like that too. Nothing would come together. But I think I'm through that blockage now and am on my way. Hopefully another page or two in a couple of days.;-)"}, {"response": 230, "author": "panache", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (21:38)", "body": "Anna, you are too funny! LOL at \"try the rip\"[tide]... yep, there's been a lot of that lately too, in many ways. I rip up scenes of my own I dislike; I \"rip\" through dinner dishes; and unfortunately, this morning I ripped a hole in my new dress for a friend's wedding today! Such is life... %-}"}, {"response": 231, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (22:53)", "body": "]I ripped a hole in my new dress for a friend's wedding today! commiserations :-("}, {"response": 232, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:10)", "body": "To those of you who have been kind enough to ask about Auntie Bertie - and when she will reappear on this page: We lost a very dear grandmother on Friday. She was nearly 99 years old. She was alert and kind and sweet to the end, but her body was completely worn out. It was an honor to be in her family, and we will all miss her. Meantime, the Aunt Bertie chronocles will have to wait for the next weekend."}, {"response": 233, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:17)", "body": "Sorry, Katy. You were lucky to have her so long. Still hurts, though. Maybe you can put a little grandma in Aunt Bertie and keep her spirit with us?"}, {"response": 234, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:18)", "body": "We are sorry to hear of your loss, Katy."}, {"response": 235, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:28)", "body": "Requiem of Heartfelt sympathy for our loved ones that have gone before us."}, {"response": 236, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "Katy, so sorry for your loss. \"Sorrow is not forever, love is.\""}, {"response": 237, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (15:55)", "body": "Sorry to hear of your loss, Katy, but it's nice to remember she had a very long life and only her body gave out. Do put a little of her into Aunt Bertie, as Amy said, it's a good way to remember her."}, {"response": 238, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (01:12)", "body": "I feel for you and your family, Katy.Know what it's like."}, {"response": 239, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (08:38)", "body": "Ditto all the above. I hope you find Katharsis in writing, Katy. Cecily, any news on Darcy as Captain Kirk?"}, {"response": 240, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (11:23)", "body": "Our loved one live in us forever, think of you in this trial time."}, {"response": 241, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (17:22)", "body": "Katy, my sympathies also. I lost my grandmothers many years ago, but I still remember special things about them. France, I have used your Darcy/Gypsy dream as part of a story, which, with your permission I will post here. However, I have been trying to post the following since Saturday, I hope it goes through this time. An Engagement Announcement When Darcy had left Netherfield the day after the ball, he had hoped to put his fancy for Miss Bennett behind him. After all, the rumor amongst the guest the previous evening was that soon Miss Elizabeth Bennett would be engaged to her cousin, Mr. Collins. Even if he had not heard Mrs. Bennett boasting about it to her neighbors at dinner (along with her expectations of a match between Bingley and Miss Jane Bennett), Caroline Bingley was thoughtful enough to inform Darcy of the coming nuptials--three t mes. Upon his return from Hertfordshire the servants had found their master to be somewhat dejected, though Darcy would have denied this vigorously. This depression of spirits (so obvious to those around him) lasted until the following week. He had come down to breakfast, as usual when he was home alone, in shirt sleeves. While sipping a cup of coffee, he read the newspaper. He turned to the announcements section. As he scanned the notices, he came across the one he had been unconsciously searching for, only the announcement read of the engagement between Mr. Collins and Miss Charlotte Lucas . He finished his breakfast (much to the relief of his chef, who been sending tempting morsels up to the dining room, only to have them returned cold and uneaten) and went to his room to finish dressing. His demeanor had so remarkedly improved that it prompted his valet to say \"I am glad you are more yourself this morning, sir, for you have been most blue-deviled since returning from Hertfordshire, I had began to fear you were taken ill.\" \"I am perfectly fine, nor have I been out of spirits,\" he had replied. His valet would have begged to differ but wisely kept his mouth shut. It was not until the following morning when he was again reading the newspaper, that it dawned on him that for the past week he had been reading the engagement columns , something he had never done before. But why? he asked himself, as he sat back in the chair. Surely, it was no concerns of mine if Miss Bennett was (or was not ) to marry her fool of a cousin , he told himself. This will not do , he thought himself. I have to put her out of my mind. He began to mentally list all the reasons he should extinguish this infatuation. Her mother, her lack of connections, her mother, her uncles in trade, her mother, her wayward sisters--her wayward younger sisters, he corrected, for he gave Jane credit for being above the rest, her mother, etc. Yet it did not seem to help at all. Even though he kept repeating this list whenever he thought of Elizabeth (which was far more often than he like) he found that all her good qualities far outweighed his objections. Darcy began to fear that he truly lost his heart--could he really be in love with Elizabeth Bennett?"}, {"response": 242, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (17:31)", "body": "Calolyn; Capital, capital, I like it very much, indeed. Pray, continue."}, {"response": 243, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (17:39)", "body": "Oh, Carolyn, that was great! I never even thought of how he may have reacted to a possible engagement between Lizzy and that Goof. In my mind, there was never even the most remote chance of that happening, so I sis not credit the possibility that ANYONE would believe it!"}, {"response": 244, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (17:56)", "body": "Carolyn, it's great! I love the entire scene and very believable. I always wondered what his reaction was to Mrs. B's remarks re: Collins and Lizzie making him a good wife!!"}, {"response": 245, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (18:42)", "body": "Great stuff, Carolyn!"}, {"response": 246, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:32)", "body": "]France, I have used your Darcy/Gypsy dream as part of a story, which, with your permission I will post here. ... permission granted. I should like to see what you did with it. I like Darcy reading the paper: he sounds so normal a man ;-)"}, {"response": 247, "author": "winter", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:58)", "body": "Brava, Carolyn! Brava! I've been thinking about other scenes, and for some reason, Darcy finding out that Lizzie was NOT to marry Mr. Collins completely escaped me. It's nice to have read such a good scene after a long day..."}, {"response": 248, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:32)", "body": "Wonderful, wonderful! Please post more of it!"}, {"response": 249, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (08:29)", "body": "France, thank you for allowing me to post this, I hope you like it. The following is based on France's Darcy/Gypsy dream. I wanted to add it to my P&P addendum notebook (copies of stories from here and the FofF page), so I made Lizzy the dreamer. I was only going change things to make it fit into the Regency time frame--but I got inspired, so added on to it. The Gypsy Baron Based upon A Dream Sequence by France \"We are such stuff as dreams are made of\"- HAMLET November, 1816 Lizzy was dreaming that she was in Europe. The journey was full of more twists and turns than the real tour she took last fall: the landscape was overgrown with wild creepers; inns had a spectral look to them, despite the crowds; and everything was seen in dim moonlight hues, since the dream indeed was one long strange night journey. Only with the entrance of a shadowy person who curiously resembled the owner of Pemberley did the mood lighten. Lizzy found herself in the middle of a coach ride through the Black Forest, feeling out of sorts due to travel fatigue and loneliness, when a man entered the carriage took a seat across from her. She thought him finely dressed, while she was in a simple cape and dress. He reminds me of someone, though at the time she could not recall whom. But this face was that of a gypsy, and his clothes and manner freer than those of the other travellers. A maroon cape, white shirt, black pants in black boots, pistol thrust in belt, and gold earring under the black curls, along with a pair of fine dark eyes, focused many a woman's attention on him, she was sure. Lizzie struggled to keep her own eyes on the evergreen scenery out the window, as a matter of principle. An hour later, a number of passengers got off at a small village and headed for the one inn. A genial chubby host, Herr Herzen (!) provided a simple but tasty meal of peasant bread, cheese, and pilsner beer for all at one long table. The gypsy taciturnly ate amid the chatter of two frumpy women nearby, then stalked to the fireplace. The stuffy atmosphere of the room soon drew her from the table to walk outside until her room was ready. She was stargazing under some pines when she heard a step behind her; trying to appear calm, she halfturned towards the inevitable maroon cloak. \"Good evening. You are, I believe, unaware of the fact that there have been robbers near here lately, and that it is unwise to be out alone.\" She admitted her ignorance but was grateful for his information, though privately doubted its being the only purpose for his approach. Indeed, his eyes kept scanning the woods nearby, then coming back to her. Not thinking it suitable to remain there with a man she had not been introduced to, Lizzy decided to return to the inn when a thunderous sound of hoofbeats came out of the darkness. \"Quickly, come with me!\" the gypsy muttered as he dragged her by the hand deeper under the pines shelter. A troupe of ruffians arrived, leapt from their horses, and stormed into the doorway, shouting and shooting. Panicked, Lizzy couldn't move, but her new friend did: he ran up to two of the horses, pulled them mightily by the reins back to the pines, and helped her mount up before whirling his horse deeper into the forest ahead of her. Afraid of what was happening back at the inn, she found herself unab e to question the idea of traipsing after this fellow into she knew not what. Besides, a little adventure seemed enticing. And where had she seen someone like him before?? Some minutes later, he slowed his horse to a walk, and hers mercifully followed suit. \"I believe we can talk quietly here as we go,\" he murmured as his eyes swept her bedraggled appearance and shaking hands clutching the reins. Lizzy admitted to being exhausted and unnerved by the incident and asked their destination. He told me of his gypsy camp at a spring not many miles hence. Of course, she thought, his gypsy camp; he's a real gypsy baron out of legend! She felt her cynical humor rise, and then she felt the worst was over if humor was returning. In fact, she had an inexplicable urge to verbally trounce this man, despite his just having saved her life. \"I wonder at your knowing the robbers would be returning to raid tonight,\" Lizzy said lightly, probing the man of mystery with what she hoped was subtlety. It wasn't. \"Are you concerned for your safety with me?\" he mocked, brows arching quizzically. When Lizzy squirmed he went on more kindly, \"Have you never heard of a gypsy's 'second sight' ability to foretell the future?\" \"I'd supposed to be mere fiction,\" she retorted, puzzled by other images starting to flash in her mind's eye of a home and a husband. \"And have you never found someone in a dream of a d\ufffdja-vue nature?\" he continued, leaning over and resting his hand for a moment on her horse's bridle. Shocked into silence, Lizzy stared in the trees ahead at a nearing campfire. Was the man a mindreader after all? And what odd fancies and pictures were dancing in her head? It was a r"}, {"response": 250, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (13:46)", "body": "Hmmmm, I do like that maroon cape! Bet it was wide enough for two...Thanks Carolyn for romance and fun in enjoyable mix."}, {"response": 251, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (13:46)", "body": "Ooh Carolyn! I'm all a-flutter...Where are my smelling salts....?"}, {"response": 252, "author": "winter", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "How very bold of Lizzy! Go on girl, wit your gypsy bad-ass self! :)"}, {"response": 253, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (14:57)", "body": "Winter: Go on girl, wit your gypsy bad-ass self! :) hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee ;-)"}, {"response": 254, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:13)", "body": "Oh, Carolyn.......dreamy!"}, {"response": 255, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:41)", "body": "Carolyn, I like it, I like it very well indeed!! Let's hope Lizzie has many more romantic dreams!;-)"}, {"response": 256, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "] \"Vaguely,\" she gasped, as he hauled himself out of the moonlit pool and strode up, shirt billowing in the wind and tousled locks in his eyes. As the pine trees began to swirl around them and her knees seemed to buckle, he eyed her gravely but with a sweet look. \"I know!\" her mind shouted as her memory of Darcy at that moment came flying back. The gypsy bowed low, gently trying to grasp her hand as she felt herself slipping, slipping, back to morning.......... Carolyn: I did wonder where you'd take my story once you came to the end of it here. I like your subsequent add-on scene with the real Darcy and \"Lizzy\" waking up, etc., very much. My only chagrin is that, after my initial posting of the dream-scene way back on the drooling thread months ago, I misquoted which Shakespearean play in the subtitle. It's Prospero speaking in Act 4 of THE TEMPEST, not Hamlet!"}, {"response": 257, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:26)", "body": "Cannot say that your lack of accuracy in Shakespeare caused me any sleepless nights, France."}, {"response": 258, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (08:47)", "body": "This should be on the drooling thread : Add the pleasure to watch Valmont very very late last night and well, with all this talk of dreaming, black boots (ever his above the one in this movie while watching Madame in her bath?) and adventure, guess what my dreams where like... hhhuuummmmmmmm (anybody ever noticed how many scene in Valmont are so similar as in P&P2, like his bath scene...) Topic 4 we boldly go ;)"}, {"response": 259, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (15:24)", "body": "From France: I did wonder where you'd take my story once you came to the end of it here. I like your subsequent add-on scene with the real Darcy and \"Lizzy\" waking up, etc., very much. My only chagrin is that, after my initial posting of the dream-scene way back on the drooling thread months ago, I misquoted which Shakespearean play in the subtitle. It's Prospero speaking in Act 4 of THE TEMPEST, not Hamlet! France, I am glad you like it. \"We are such stuff as dreams are made of\"- THE TEMPEST or if you want to stay with HAMLET \"To sleep, perchance to dream\" The following is part 2 of Bingley's proposal. Bingley's proposal--Part 2 Jane's reply In another part of the house Elizabeth begged, \"Please let me go down to Jane. I promised her I would not leave her.\" \"Stay where you are,\" Mrs. Bennet commanded, \"another five minutes will do the trick.\" So Elizabeth fretted about Jane, Mrs. Bennet dreamed of bridals, Mary wondered what she would sing at the reception, and Kitty hoped to be a bridesmaid. Meanwhile, back in the drawing room....... Jane got up from her seat, and moved toward the fireplace, she turned to face him, unsure of what she was going to say. \"Jane, what is the matter?\" he asked with concern, looking confused, for this was not the respose he expected. Unfortunately for Bingley, just as Jane had been about to say yes, the thought of his sisters invaded her head like a poisonous serpent. They would not look kindly on the match, hopeful as they were for a more prominent connection. This thought so distressed her that she blurted out her thoughts, \"I had scarely hoped that you would offer for me for Caroline said you were to marry Miss Darcy. . . \" \"Georgiana!\" Bingley interrupted with astonishment. \"But she is just a child. I have never given my sister any reason to suppose that I felt anything more for Miss Darcy than the affection for a friend's sister.\" He stood up and moved to stand next to her. \"Come, perhaps it is best if you tell me everything that took place my sister and yourself, so there can be no more misunderstandings.\" \"When you left Netherfield, Caroline wrote to say she thought you would be staying in London, especially as Miss Darcy was there. Lizzy thought you be back by the following week.\" And so I should have been, Bingley berated himself. \"She later wrote that you would not be returning at all.\" \"After Christmas\" Jane continued, \"I went to stay with my aunt in London. I wrote to Caroline--twice--to tell her I would be in London and hoped to call upon her.\" She noticed Bingley frowning, but she did not know that he had asked Caroline if she ever heard from Jane, and been told \"No\". \"I did visit her once, but I now see that she was unhappy to see me, and when she made her return visit, it was clear that she had no real affection for me.\" As Jane said this, Bingley realized that Caroline's behavior had deeply hurt Jane--who never pretended friendship for his sister, but had actually meant it. \"She said,\" Jane caught her breath, \"she said you knew I was in London but were to busy with Miss Darcy to see me.\" Bingley felt his anger rise at Caroline's manipulations. If she had been in the room, she would have seen a storm of fury quite out of the ordinary for her easy going brother. However, he let go his anger (for the moment) for the need to know Jane's response to his proposal was more important. \"Jane, despite all lies that my sister told you, you are the only woman I have ever considered marrying. And you will marry me, won't you?\" Jane had barely whispered \"yes\" before Bingley kissed her, somewhat chastely at first, but with increasing ardor when she returned his kiss. Both were startled by the intensity of their emotions. When the kiss was finally over, there were no longer any doubts on either side. Bingley brushed back a wayward curl that had fallen upon her cheek. \"I love you, very much, and nothing anybody does or says will ever make me change my mind.\" It was a promise from his heart. \"I shan't let you get away from me now,\" he said in a lighter, teasing manner. Jane smiled shyly at him, \"I have no desire to get away, for I love you.\" \"Jane, I believe you have made me the happiest man alive,\" Bingley positively beamed at Jane. Jane return his smiled, and when he begin to lower his head to kiss her again, she was waiting with much anticipation, when the door was thrust open and Lizzy came into the room."}, {"response": 260, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (16:57)", "body": "Carolyn - I like Bingley's proposal very well indeed! Finally, I've got parts 6 and 7 of Young Fitz: YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--PART 6 Fitzwilliam, accompanied by Miss Field, had returned directly to Pemberley while his parents remained in town for a few weeks, arriving at Pemberley just in time to prepare for the Christmas festivities. Thomas Darcy, although he did not like to be too long away from Pemberley, was forced by business affairs to spend some time in town two or three times each year. However, he had the comfort of knowing that his estate was being very capably managed by his steward, Mr. Wickham. Shortly after he had inherited Pemberley, when his father's steward retired, Thomas Darcy had retained Mr. Wickham in his place. The latter had been an attorney in Matlock but sought the change for the sake of his family. He had married his senior attorney's pretty daughter, then not yet twenty, but had very soon discovered that her good looks had hidden a silly mind and a frivolous manner whose tastes had always been more extravagant than his income allowed. Mr. Wickham had hoped that a remove from he market town onto a country estate would curb her spending habits. When they had arrived at the steward's cottage on the Pemberley grounds they brought along their two young daughters. One year later, in January 1784, they had added a son to their family and Thomas Darcy had consented to be godfather to young George Wickham; he had attended his baptism, had always enquired after his well-being, but otherwise took little notice of his godson whilst George was an infant. Christmas was a jolly season with family and friends entertained by dinner parties, a ball, carol singing, impromptu dancing, or games every day between Christmas Eve and Twelfth Night. And the second day of Christmas had traditionally been given to Pemberley's servants and tenants; they were invited to the main house with their families for a special dinner in the servants' hall, usually followed by carol singing and a dance. Mr. and Mrs. Darcy had always visited this assembly to drink a toast to the eason and to wish all their staff and tenants a merry Christmas. This year they brought Fitzwilliam with them to the servants' hall; the latter was amazed to see so many children among the group and begged his parents to allow him to stay and play with some of them. But Lady Anne did not like the idea of her son being exposed to disease, perhaps unknowingly carried by any of these children, and she quickly silenced her son's requests. Instead, he joined his parents while they circulated throughout the oom, quietly talking to each family individually. Fitzwilliam knew some of the adults from his rides with his father, and, of course he knew Mr. Wickham and had sometimes seen his son, George. They were nearly the same age, but where George Wickham was outgoing and talkative, Fitzwilliam was quiet and unsure of himself. Mr. Darcy also noticed the difference between his son and godson and decided, in his own mind, that Fitzwilliam needed more exposure to children his own age; he had been too much surrounded by adults and needed the leavening of youthful companions. He determined that a friendship between these two boys might be a very good thing for both of them, especially as Edward Fitzwilliam would soon join his brother at Eton. Lady Anne was not so sure whether this idea was really wise. She had always been hesitant to let her son play with the village or tenant children; she feared they would instil bad habits and wrong ideas which might be difficult to overcome. In the end, though, she accepted the idea provided that the company was limited to George Wickham."}, {"response": 261, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (16:59)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--PART 7 Thereafter Fitzwilliam and George played together once or twice a week when the weather was fine. They enjoyed each other's company; Fitzwilliam was happy to have someone to play with and George was glad to spend a few hours away from his older sisters who were not interested in outdoor activity. Within months the boys also met on inclement days; George would come to the main house after Fitzwilliam's lessons and the boys would occupy themselves with toy soldiers, card games, or draughts. Fitzwilliam as learning to play chess and backgammon with his father, but was not skilled enough to teach George who knew nothing of those games. In the winter they played in the snow, sliding down hills, building snowmen, or having snowball fights. In the spring Mr. Wickham fashioned kites for the boys and they spent many happy hours trying to fly them; they had some success but more failures because of the many trees on the Pemberley grounds. George, who could barely sit a horse, had to be taught by his father before the boys were able to ride together in the fields and park, always accompanied by a groom. George did not care for this pastim as much as Fitzwilliam. \"Riding is all right if you have to get somewhere,\" George confessed to Fitzwilliam, \"but I do not find any pleasure in just galloping over the fields where no one can see how well we look.\" Both boys enjoyed fishing in the summer; they would run to the stream to see who could get there first until, one day, Fitzwilliam ran too fast and tumbled into the stream before he could stop. He was sent back to the house to change where his father saw him on the staircase. \"Whatever happened, Fitz?\" he asked. When Fitz explained, Thomas Darcy considered for a moment and declared \"I think it is time you and George learnt how to swim. I would not wish you to be in deep water by accident and unable to save yourself.\" Mr. Darcy conferred with Mr. Wickham and the latter asked an under-gardener, who had once been a sailor, to teach the boys to swim in the pond. Phil, the young gardener, took the boys to the pond on sunny, warm days; he stood in the shallow water, near the edge, and the boys took turns being held prone on top of the water whilst Phil taught them how to move their arms and legs. Fitzwilliam quickly adapted to this method of movement; Phil had then let go of his charge and Fitzwilliam found he was moving through the water by himself, calling to George \"I am a fish! Catch me if you can.\" George had not cared for the water; he learnt to swim, but he disliked the weeds in the pond and never wished to swim just for fun. From that time, Fitzwilliam after riding in the fields on a warm day, would find Phil to watch him while he cooled off with a swim in the pond; George preferred to walk home from the stables. Fitzwilliam reported all his adventures and achievements to his parents, relating his own and George's accomplishments. Lady Anne had listened patiently, smiling at his evident excitement. But she had also reminded him never to forget the disparity in the boys' circumstances, their different family and social status. Thomas Darcy had been equally delighted at his son's new skills but had also thought to himself, \"I wish Fitz could obtain some of George's easy manners and pleasing smiles; and George could well use some of Fitz's love of books and pursuit of knowledge.\" But these were idle thoughts and had not detracted from his love and pride in his son and godson."}, {"response": 262, "author": "Saman", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "Inko - that's wonderful! I love the way you remembered the information about Wickham's mother from Darcy's letter to Elizabeth :)"}, {"response": 263, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (17:36)", "body": "Carolyn and Inko - wonderful stories. Yes, I wanted Caroline Bingley exposed!! And young Darcy and Wickham are shaping up nicely."}, {"response": 264, "author": "winter", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "thanks, carolyn, for putting a little more \"ummmff\" into bingley and jane's romance! i hate to see them treated so indifferently... they DO seem like a romantic type of couple if you give them a chance; they've had their share of obstacles too. inko-- possible story idea: how about a brief encounter between young darcy and young elizabeth, without them knowing one another, but somehow feeling a CONNECTION.... like passing one another on the streets in london?"}, {"response": 265, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (22:07)", "body": "Inko, this is superb!Fitz is beautifully delineated!Youreally have got to finish it!!!"}, {"response": 266, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (09:16)", "body": "Inko, this is beautiful! Little Fitz is such a sweetie! And I like his habit of cooling off in the pond after a long ride. Good habits start early! ;-) MORE, please?!"}, {"response": 267, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (15:06)", "body": "Carolyn, thank you for the story! It was fun to see Caroline get hers! And Inko-- DARCY SWIMS!! I can see many pleasurable hours aheaad of him in the pond...for him, and for us! ;-)"}, {"response": 268, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (15:22)", "body": "I teased some of you with a snippit of a story last night. I finally finished it off. If the background looks familiar, it is because I stole it from Kathleen (I hope you don't mind, Kaff). It is a bit long (about 11 pages), so be warned. I call it: What Did Georgiana Know? And When Did She Know it? Or It's Been Three Months, Get Over It Already! The Story"}, {"response": 269, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (16:02)", "body": "Ann, An excellent story! Inko, I also eagerly await the further adventures of Little Fitz."}, {"response": 270, "author": "winter", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (17:19)", "body": "Ann! This is brilliant! I'm giddy with delight.. my neighbors next door must've thought i was going crazy as i was screaming while reading this. Great stuff!"}, {"response": 271, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "Winter has come to the Spring!"}, {"response": 272, "author": "winter", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (18:54)", "body": "thanks for the welcome, ann... i've been visitng the conference regularly, but have been \"posting-shy\" for quite a while. TO ALL: I'm so impressed and very much indebted to your creativity. after long days on campus (i'm a graduate student), you've all had me running to my terminal when i get home to check on the latest 'fanfic'. hope to contribute, if my creative juices ever start flowing... otherwise, KEEP 'EM COMIN'! win"}, {"response": 273, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (20:04)", "body": "Ann, I loved your story. Darcy really was in agony wasn't he! Loved the bit where Georgiana was playing the same music as Lizzie - a nice touch! Welcome Winter! That's a strange thing for me to say - I'd rather welcome summer, but it can't be helped! Thanks for the idea, though I don't think I'll use it - too much age difference. A 21-year old Darcy wouldn't look twice at a 14 year-old Lizzie! And thanks everyone for your kind words about Little Fitz. He's coming along now, but I fear his getting to be a teenager! Should he be a hippie? Just kidding!!"}, {"response": 274, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (21:13)", "body": "Inko - I think Darcy at 12 or 14 might be taken with the fun and laughter of two very pretty little girls playing in one of the lovely London parks - he had known so little of fun and laughter himself. He could watch with a mixture of admiration and envy before being called back to the more grown-up fun of field hockey or whatever school boys played in the park. now I must read Ann's story!"}, {"response": 275, "author": "kendall", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Ann - your story is lovely. Fitzie learning to be open ad well as humble. I love it."}, {"response": 276, "author": "winter", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "yes, it would be a bit awkward for an adult Darcy to find himself attracted to such a young Lizzy. I keep forgetting about that darn thing called 'age difference.' I'm so used to picturing those two as somewhat the same age because their communication seemed so easy and compatible. But I guess that comes with maturity."}, {"response": 277, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (12:45)", "body": "Inko, How about a \"geeky freak\". Just kidding.[grin]"}, {"response": 278, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (13:19)", "body": "I go with Katy on this Inko Darcy at 12 or 14 might be taken with the fun and laughter of two very pretty little girls playing in one of the lovely London parks and certainly Lizzy could make a remark to Jane on the tall, dark and handsome boy who looked so severe and suggest they tried a trick to make him forget his wellmannered behaviour and maybe even laugh himself helpless."}, {"response": 279, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (15:04)", "body": "Ahem. sorry to be wet blanket, but the Bennetts never went to London in the book-Mr Bennet hated it and refused to take his daughters, so they never got the benefit of art or music masters,or of London Parks. Maybe its important, maybe JA needs correcting."}, {"response": 280, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (16:24)", "body": "Caroline - the older girls spent time with their aunt and uncle in London. We do not actually know when the Gardiners married, but then the book doesn't say that they were not married and available to entertain their nieces when they were 5 or 6."}, {"response": 281, "author": "Saman", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (18:00)", "body": "Ann - loved the story!"}, {"response": 282, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (19:06)", "body": "] We do not actually know when the Gardiners married, but then the book doesn't say that they were not married and available to entertain their nieces when they were 5 or 6. I'm relying on memory, so may well be wrong, but was not Mrs Gardiner only about 10 years older than Jane? 16 year old marriages were not unknown but were uncommon, and Mrs Gardiner's not the Lydia type. Maybe Lizzy and Jane could be 10 or 11?"}, {"response": 283, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (19:52)", "body": "The book only says Mrs. Gardiner is several years younger than Mrs. Bennet. Actually the fact that she had so many children (no lack of fertility here) all so much younger than the Bennet girls would probably indicate that she did not marry until the older girls were close to 10. So, ok, at 10 and 12 they could still play and giggle and have splendid fun that might attract passing admiration from a new Oxford man on holiday in the city, couldn't they?"}, {"response": 284, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (21:38)", "body": "BORE ON HER HOBBYHORSE ALERT Ladies, I will not go on too much, I hope, but I want to say three things 1.Lydia didn't know where the best warehouses were and you can bet your buttons that she would if she had been there! 2.Inko, I know, is trying to keep this as true to Austen as possible,(and doing very well, IMHO) Austen would never let this kind of co-incidence happen unless it was crucial to the continuation of the story.Think what responsibity you are loading onto poor Inko here! 3.London Then,was nothing like London Now, in size, in \"class\" of district,and in many other things.I lived and worked in London for ten years, and did an undergraduate degree in Geography, specialising in Historical Geography. I walkeed the streets looking for Austen, Dickens and many others.I won't bother you with hitorical quotes and references(if you really want them, E-mail me).I'll just say here that the famous London Parks were not, at the time, actually within the boundaries of London, That there ere, and are, NO PARKS AT ALL in the City Proper,so a trip to the Park for the Bennet Girls would be a major outing for a specific reason, and as Georgette Heyer is fond of pointing out, The aristocracy made a point of not going at the same time as ordinary people. The only way Darcy and Lizzie could have been in the same Park at the same time is for a specific public event, like a Ballon Ascension(not an original idea of mine!)And then, I think there would be such a press of people that the two gi ls would have had very little opportunity to play at all, let alone catch the eye of a self-centred teenager or a flash on vacation from university. Sorry. I'll stop now, and go back into my hole.Inko knows, because I have told her, that I fully appreciate that it's her story, and I'll accept whatever she does with it!"}, {"response": 285, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (21:52)", "body": "Great info., Caroline! Inko, we humbly await you next segment."}, {"response": 286, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (22:04)", "body": "Caroline--thanks for the great information and the support. My feelings are the same as yours in this, per my e-mail to you. When you think of parks like Regents Park today (I know it well since my family lives very near there), it didn't even exist in 1800--nor did the Regency for that matter which, technically was from 1811-1820. And Mayfair, where Darcy had his town house and where the Hursts lived in Grosvenor Street, was as far from Cheapside as (if anyone knows the Washington, D.C. area) Potomac( ne of the ritziest suburbs) is from Anacostia (probably the poorest section of the city). Sorry, Katy, et al, who wanted an earlier encounter than the one in Meryton."}, {"response": 287, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (23:04)", "body": "Caroline, I am sorry that I carried this pretty little absurdity to the point that you needed to bring out the big guns to protect Inko's story perogatives. Inko - I am looking forward to your next chapters - and I am really - honest - not trying to write them for you. I just got caught up with the park idea - we are having an 'unseasonably' warm Saturday - 68 degrees - sunshine - the entire state was probably out playing in the park today. Perhaps he could be walking with his mother pushing little Geo. in a stroller while El and Jane tag along behind Lydia's stroller..... sorry ... there I go again ..."}, {"response": 288, "author": "winter", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (01:11)", "body": "sorry inko, sorry katy. didn't mean to get us into meaningless discussions. please forgive me... now.... where were we?"}, {"response": 289, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (09:14)", "body": "Actually, they probably could have met at a seasonable place like Bath, the Gardiner bringing their nieces and we know the gentry and nobles were visiting there. Just a thought think it's your 68 degrees Katy that got me dreaming of pleasenter weather :)"}, {"response": 290, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "Perhaps we could leave Inko alone to work on her lovely story without our interference and start a new thread - a 'meeting on the cobb at Lyme scene' contest for Elizabeth and Darcy? points for originality, points for absurdity, points for entertainment value, points for the number of JA characters who might accidently pass by the same place at the same time??"}, {"response": 291, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (14:02)", "body": "Nice idea, Katy. Bernie has been thinking about such a contest too -- with book prizes, even."}, {"response": 292, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (18:48)", "body": "Katy, I love you!"}, {"response": 293, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (20:01)", "body": "BTW, my fanaticism over historical accuracy extends only to Inko's story, and that only because of the parameters she has set herself .The other flights of fancy on this topic are fine by me.I did not intend my big guns to blow anyone out of the water, and I really do not want to discourage anyone from putting finger to submit button! I really enjoy this topic!"}, {"response": 294, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (20:10)", "body": "Katy, I think your idea is great, love the thought of a contest. I will have to give it more thought though - would like to get all Austen's books in or at least the characters from all her books. Separate post will be Part 8 of young Fitz."}, {"response": 295, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--Part 8 In the early summer after Fitzwilliam's eighth birthday Lady Anne lost yet another child; her spirits were very low as she despaired of ever producing a brother or sister for their son, and it made her more determined than before to keep William near her at Pemberley. Thomas Darcy was equally despondent and decided that Fitzwilliam would not join his cousins at Eton any time soon; instead they would retain a tutor who would live with them and prepare Fitzwilliam for either Eton or directly for Cambridge \"Perhaps George could join Fitz for these lessons\" Mr. Darcy suggested, \"it would be to his advantage to learn more than he does at present with the village curate, and Fitz would likely enjoy his studies more if he were not always alone.\" \"You may be right,\" Lady Anne replied, \"but I think you should ask Mr. Wickham to caution his son; George seems to think he is your son and has all the same rights as William, or perhaps even more since he is three months older. I believe he is apt to forget that he is the son of your very worthy steward; that he is only your godson and will have to make his own way in the world when he is a man.\" \"Your understanding of the situation is very sound, Anne, and I will talk to Mr. Wickham. But George's manners are very pleasing; he has great charm and I am sure that, after a good education, he will have no trouble making his way in the world. I rather hope he will make the church his profession and perhaps we can guide him along that path.\" The new tutor, Edmund Stone, arrived at Pemberley in August 1792, whilst Lady Anne was still recuperating from her latest loss. He was not yet four and twenty with a degree and fellowship from Cambridge where he had been a tutor at King's College. He was a pleasant looking man with gentlemanlike manners and demeanor, an excellent understanding, and a mind that was equally adept at receiving and imparting information. Fitzwilliam was delighted to have Mr. Stone for a tutor; he had nearly exhausted Miss Field's knowledge of mathematics, geography and science. She stayed on in the schoolroom, however, as an assistant to Mr. Stone and her help proved invaluable because George had not attained Fitzwilliam's standard of education. George did not have the same interest in mastering the elementary subjects and rarely paid attention to the entire lesson. Indeed, the previous year when Fitzwilliam had talked about the French revolution, George had known nothing of either France or what was happening there. \"I am not interested in other countries,\" he had explained, \"I do not like history, geography or reading and my mother does not make me do anything I do not wish to do.\" Fitzwilliam had been much amazed by this information but had taken it upon himself to teach George everything he knew of what was going on in the outside world. He had not realized that George rarely listened to more than a word or two of his explanations. Now Mr. Stone and Miss Field also discovered that George was inattentive, did as little work as possible, and preferred to use his smile and graceful manners to charm Miss Field into giving him easy work and only during the morning school hours; he n ver took work home and spent his evenings in idle gossip with his mother and sisters."}, {"response": 296, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (20:21)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--PART 9 That autumn marked another new experience for Fitzwilliam; he was allowed to go out with a shooting party, not to shoot but just to watch. He usually stayed with the guns, but occasionally he was allowed to go with the beaters or with the dogs who retrieved the birds. \"You will have to wait another year or two, Fitz, before you learn how to handle a gun,\" his father had told him, \"but I think you may enjoy watching the line of guns and how the beaters get the birds into flight.\" \"Will you teach me to shoot next year, Father?\" Fitz had asked. \"Perhaps, Fitz. You know your mother does not care for guns. She knows that the grouse and pheasants must be brought down to supply the kitchen, but I believe she would prefer that you do not participate in the sport until you are much older.\" \"Maybe you can teach me without telling Mother,\" Fitz had suggested with a mischievous grin. \"Fitz! That would be dishonest. Have I not always reminded you to tell the absolute truth, that disguise of any sort is abhorrent?\" \"Yes, Father, I remember. I'm sorry, but it is difficult to wait just because Mother does not like guns.\" \"I know it is, Fitz, but in two years you will probably be big enough to use a full-sized gun which you could not do this year. Just be patient, son.\" Fitz always enjoyed these moments alone with his father, as he also enjoyed the evenings when there was no company and he joined his father for a game of backgammon, chess, or talking about the stories from Greek and Roman mythology and the histories of these civilizations. On such evenings Lady Anne would sit quietly with her needlework, happily listening to the two people who were dearest to her. Fitzwilliam had been delighted when Mr. Stone introduced him to the classics. He had made a good start in learning Greek and Latin and was always eager to demonstrate his new knowledge to his father. During the Christmas holidays the entire Fitzwilliam family stayed at Pemberley for a week. Fitz was glad to be with Edward again and listened eagerly to his comments about Eton; he learnt about Edward's friends and how he lived, the food, the classes and teachers, and the games they played. Fitz was eager for the day when he could join his cousin at Eton. Fitz was also happy to see his godfather, Colonel John Fitzwilliam again; the latter had been with his regiment in Canada for nearly two years and was amazed at Fitz' growth and maturity during that time. When John complimented Thomas Darcy on his son's development, Mr. Darcy smiled and commented \"Oh, yes, he is outgoing and talktative in this family circle; but I am afraid he is quite shy and uncomfortable with all others.\""}, {"response": 297, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (20:32)", "body": "Inko - very nice. they are all coming along very nicely."}, {"response": 298, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (21:59)", "body": "Sounds great, Inko."}, {"response": 299, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (23:33)", "body": "Katy's response #290 Wonderful idea Katy, and for those like who don't have the verve to wright, can we flip the 9.8 and 9.9 card ?"}, {"response": 300, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (23:34)", "body": "Katy's response #290 Wonderful idea Katy, and for those like me who don't have the verve to wright, can we flip the 9.8 and 9.9 card ?"}, {"response": 301, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (23:34)", "body": "Oups, tried to stop it but...."}, {"response": 302, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (00:13)", "body": "I just enjoy reading everything everyone writes.:-)"}, {"response": 303, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (01:48)", "body": "So do I and was only indulging in the swwet picture of girls in park. No offense intended as I know everybody is quite capable of writing their own story. Just love it all so far,Inko, have saved part 8 and 9 for more peaceful moment... As for Georgianas worries about her brother I have only started to read... but that suspected tear on cheek of Fitz ...oohh..."}, {"response": 304, "author": "winter", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (02:19)", "body": "great stuff, inko. keep 'em coming. and yes, ann2: i have to agree with you there about the tear on the cheek... i got an emotional response myself."}, {"response": 305, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (04:54)", "body": "Though I am at work and really ought not to... I've read about Fitz learning to be sociable and rather mature in circle of friends(!) and family, ...loved his father's remark about him probably beeing shy and uncomfortable among strangers! And naughty Georgie boy never doing his homework and gossiping with his mother and sisters. He practised his charms whenever he got a chans, eyh? Two examples of the very good foreshadowing you are giving us Inko."}, {"response": 306, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (11:57)", "body": "For all those who have trouble reading the stories here--since this page takes a long time to load and parts of stories are scattered about, I have collected everything together and made a home page for our stories. New posts should still come in here, I will then take them and put them up on the new page. Here is the the link: Derbyshire Writers Guild I'd appreciate feedback on improving it. Happy reading!"}, {"response": 307, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (11:59)", "body": "Whoops, I must have typed that wrong. Here it is again: Derbyshire Writers Guild"}, {"response": 308, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (12:01)", "body": "naughty Georgie boy Georgie, porgy, pudding and pie, Kissed the girls and made them cry. When the boys came out to play, Georgie porgie ran away. (originally said about the Prince Regent, but it fits Wickham too, don't you think?) Inko, I am so glad that Fitz likes geography and history!And that there is a Canadian connection!"}, {"response": 309, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (12:14)", "body": "naughty Georgie boy Georgie, porgy, pudding and pie, Kissed the girls and made them cry. When the boys came out to play, Georgie porgie ran away. (originally said about the Prince Regent, but it fits Wickham too, don't you think?) Inko, I am so glad that Fitz likes geography and history!And that there is a Canadian connection!"}, {"response": 310, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (12:19)", "body": "Cannot explain THAT double-post!Great idea, Ann. I wish I had had a chance to correct my grammer tho! ABFARCE was done in a real hurry!"}, {"response": 311, "author": "winter", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "oh ann! i'm ovejoyed! thank you, thank you for creating the home page! i shall bookmark it promptly."}, {"response": 312, "author": "winter", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "oh ann! i'm ovejoyed! thank you, thank you for creating the home page! i shall bookmark it promptly."}, {"response": 313, "author": "mich", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (13:33)", "body": "Ann, would it be possible to date each story on the new home page? It would be easier to pick out new stuff."}, {"response": 314, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (18:11)", "body": "\"Cannot explain THAT double-post!Great idea, Ann. I wish I had had a chance to correct my grammer tho! ABFARCE was done in a real hurry!\" Caroline, if you want to edit your stuff, send it to me by e-mail and I will update it. \"Ann, would it be possible to date each story on the new home page? It would be easier to pick out new stuff. \" Mich, I'll think about it."}, {"response": 315, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (18:13)", "body": "That message to Caroline about editing her stuff, is only for editing . Please post new stuff here."}, {"response": 316, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (19:15)", "body": "Very nice, Ann! It would be nice if the new pages could become the complete archive for this topic. So we would not have to duplicate Ann's work in Spring Cleaning. Comments on the pieces could be treated as \"review quotes, \" you know like on the back and first few pages of paperbacks? Other comments? Maybe we could lose them or think of another way to incorporate them. Ann, would you be open to having a volunteer work with you to make such a thing possible? If you are like me, it might be hard."}, {"response": 317, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (19:22)", "body": "I don't know Amy. If someone wants to collect the review quotes, I'll link them to the stories, but I think that it would be hard to do, for example some of the quotes refer to different pieces in the same message. I'll leave it for someone else."}, {"response": 318, "author": "panache", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (22:24)", "body": "Ann- Thank you for the effort. I noted the FoF stories had the following copyright notice, which I think we need attached to our stories in a similar, if not identical, way. Copyright 1996 All content herein is held in copyright by the individual authors whose works are included here. Copying is prohibited except by permission of the authors or artists."}, {"response": 319, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (22:38)", "body": "My third attempt today to post this - got kicked off each time before. RE #305: Anne2, glad you like the foreshadowing. But then we know that \"those who are good natured as children are good natured when they grow up.\" So the reverse could be true, those who are lazy, vain, and gossipy as children are probably so when they grow up!;-) RE #308: Caroline, I love the Georgie Porgy analogy. It suits Wickham very well. I'd forgotten that it was said about Prinny. Also glad you approve of the Canadian connection. I was trying to think of where he might have been and Canada seemed a logical choice. After all those pesky former colonials (ingrates or D*** George III, as an Englishman said while travelling along the California coast) might decide to invade up north!;-) RE #318: Thanks Cecily, I think you're right. My husband told me the other day that I should copyright my Little Fitz, but I thought it was too late since it was already posted on the Internet."}, {"response": 320, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (23:02)", "body": "\"Ann- Thank you for the effort. I noted the FoF stories had the following copyright notice, which I think we need attached to our stories in a similar, if not identical, way. Copyright 1996 All content herein is held in copyright by the individual authors whose works are included here. Copying is prohibited except by permission of the authors or artists. \" I asked Henry about this and he said that he thought that there was an implicit copyright on everything, so a message like that wasn't necessary. He also said he wasn't a lawyer and did not know for sure. Does anyone out there know what we need to do to copyright this stuff?"}, {"response": 321, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (23:37)", "body": "Ann, My husband is a lawyer and since he suggested a copyright I think it would be a good idea to put in a disclaimer like the one suggested. It certainly can't hurt!;-) P.S. I don't think there is such a thing as an implicit copyright; I think one has to be very explicit about it."}, {"response": 322, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "Sorry, I just checked with my resident lawyer! He says Henry is right, there is such a thing as an implicit copyright under common law. But he suggested that it would be better, for those that have a single author, to put \"Copyrighted 1997 by [name]. Of course, if you can make a small c in a circle, that would be shorter, but I wouldn't know how to do that and it's not on my keyboard. Hope this answers your questions."}, {"response": 323, "author": "Karen", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (00:59)", "body": "Ann and Inko - absolutely splendid! Your writings are so enjoyable I might be endanger spending even more time on the web just to sample these delights."}, {"response": 324, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (01:36)", "body": "I don't think there is such a thing as an implicit copyright; I think one has to be very explicit about it. This may actually vary from nation to nation, so it probably would not hurt to put some kind of explicit copyright language in original material."}, {"response": 325, "author": "panache", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (08:21)", "body": "So, Ann, may we trouble you to put the copyright year (1996 or 1997, depending on actual first posting date) next to each scene you transfer? Then maybe Amy or Henry could insert a broad copyright 1996, 1997 statement at the top header of this topic thread for us too, while it's still here and for when it's left in archive. Much appreciated, everyone."}, {"response": 326, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (14:21)", "body": "\u00a9 1997, Done."}, {"response": 327, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Ann, thanks and very clever. How did you do the c in the circle?"}, {"response": 328, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (17:01)", "body": "How did you do the c in the circle? It's probably in the font. But I did not realize that it would be the same keystroke across platforms. I wonder if this will work, too? Probably only for Mac users... If it works, you may see little graphics such as bunnies, sheep, birds and litle Macintoshes. If not, I hope it does not mess anything up! \ufffd \ufffd \ufffd \ufffd \ufffd \ufffd"}, {"response": 329, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (17:06)", "body": "Hmmmm it does work - but I guessed wrong about what the smallest size was. Mac users will see the pictures - what do others see? \ufffd \ufffd \ufffd \ufffd \ufffd \ufffd \ufffd"}, {"response": 330, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (19:49)", "body": "I see various sized Y with two dots over them, from small to large! I'm on an IBM clone with windows95. Sorry!"}, {"response": 331, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:09)", "body": "HC says that is what is supposed to be displayed - but in some Mac fonts they have put in little pictures instead. You must be using Geneva instead of Times as your browser's default proportional font to see the keystroke pictures."}, {"response": 332, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:25)", "body": "HTML has codes for all sorts of characters including \u00a9 and \u00a3 and \u00bf. I have a list of them in my HTML for Dummies-Quick Reference book. When I wrote the tutorial I also had to figure out how to make < and > appear without the browser interpreting them as tags."}, {"response": 333, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:49)", "body": "I also had to figure out how to make appear without the browser interpreting them as tags. BTW, Ann, it would be a good idea to explain in the tutorial that you have left spaces after and before the brackets, but when they are used as tags, there should not be any spaces. People are trying to copy and paste your examples, but they will not work with the spaces in them."}, {"response": 334, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:58)", "body": "Okay! Joan."}, {"response": 335, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (12:51)", "body": "BE NOT ALARMED (Bits and pieces to form a patchwork) Darcy was furious and agitated as the door slammed behind him. How eagerly he had been entering that same door not an hour ago. He now felt as if he could not get away from Hunsford fast enough.The tumult of his mind was painfully great. A lovely evening it was, the sky so clear, the flowery fragrant breeze resembling a soft caress and the singing of the birds amongst the ligth green foliage seemed to be all in praise of the scenery. This was however wasted on the tall man who at a determined - almost aggressive - pace hurried on trying to blind himself to nature\ufffds delights. To him they were a mere insult. His stern face revealed traces of a torment he was not able to suppress. He was exposed to humiliation and shock as detached fragments flashed in his mind \ufffd...the last man in the world whom I could ever marry... \ufffd He still felt the twinge of pain that had made him startle at those merciless words from her sweet lips. To suddenly realize that she thought so little of him... that she in fact looked down upon him. It was almost unbearable. He remembered how he had told her of the strength of his feelings ; that he had not found it possible to conquer them. At those recollectio s the disturbance of his mind was visible in every feature. \ufffd... your arrogance, your selfish disdain for the feelings of others.... your character was unfolded in the recital from Mr Wickham .\ufffd His rage blazed up again and he burst out: \ufffd In that at least, I must defend myself !\ufffd whilst running up the entrance steps to Rosings. Making haste as he passed the hall ; yet he could not escape her indignant words echoing in his head . \ufffdYou are mistaken, Mr Darcy ... merely spared me the concern I might have felt in refusing you, had you behaved in a more gentlemanlike manner . \ufffd An inarticulate sound escaped his lips. Halfway up the stairs, he had to slow down as his cousin appeared downstairs in the hall to inform him that their aunt was expecting his company. Darcy flinched from the thought of being forced to endure such tiresome conversation, maybe even an unfeeling and unveiled crossexamination performed by Lady Catherine. He absolutely wished to be alone and pleading some pressing matter, asked Fitzwilliam to convey his excuses to Her Ladyship. At last he was able to close the door and be safe in his room. The last hour had been one of the most bewildering in his entire life and actually, his selfreliance had been shaken to its foundations. The effort to keep his feelings back, had been exhausting and he remained immovable for a moment, before he composed himself and sat down at the writingdesk. He placed an empty letter-paper in front of him, and thus began his letter to Miss Bennet."}, {"response": 336, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (13:00)", "body": "continuo \ufffd Be not alarmed , madam, on recieving this letter... of its containing any repetition of those sentiments or renewal of those offers which were, last night, so disgusting to you ... \ufffd. He let the pen drop and leaned back on his chair. His eyes were lost watching invisible scenes from the parsonage. They reflected distress and it was painful to remember her words and the expression on her face - and it was likewise distressing to think ahead. What foolish anticipation of a happy evening and of continued high spirits for the days to come. Totaly unaware of her opinion about him, he had devoted his mind to the construction of a castle in the air. And only a few hours ago ... As he walked over to Hunsford, he had contemplated the happiness before him. To be entitled to meet with Elizabeth every day...to be able to present her to his relatives at Rosings and to her relatives at Hunsford , as his future bride...and not merely that.... He had been meditating on the pleasure that her sweetness, her gentleness could bestowe. He had permitted himself to indulge in pleasant dreams of her lively and passionate abilities, when it came to love.... dreams of her bringing some relief to his ardent desire. He had pictured her quite as gifted and breathtaking in tho e matters, as he knew her to be in conversation and society. He blushed at his power of imagination and groaned as he considered his own conceit. Such selfassurance ! Certain that she would be flattered at the prospect of becoming Mrs Darcy, that she admired him, that she would feel honoured and gladly accept his proposal. How wrong he had been ! The presumption of it all ! She was not a woman who would marry for money. He knew that now. She did not like him - to say the least - and so she would not be prevailed upon to have him for a husband, no matter who he was, how fine his estate or how large his income ! What a precious woman ! No wonder he had not been able to repress his feelings. And he loved her even more now, when there was no hope of her returning his affections. If Miss Bennet\ufffds heart was available, it was to another...Any tender feelings of hers were certainly aimed at another more fortunate man ... he shivered with repulse and jealousy at the thought of George Wickham. Was that scoundrel to enjoy her smiles and be in her good graces ... no no, it must be prevented ... everything must be laid before Miss Bennet. He was certain of her discretion and reliability. His confidences would not be put to any improper use by this sensible and thouroughly honest woman whose sparkling eyes were so bewitching ... He moaned and renewed the torture of recollections from his recent Hunsford visit. Ann2 (1997) PS I am in a hurry to do the Darcybits, before I read the Darcy book. Took one week from my posting the order till the parcel was in my home. Such excellent service."}, {"response": 337, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (13:26)", "body": "Oooooh! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"}, {"response": 338, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (13:28)", "body": "]. . . dreams of her bringing some relief to his ardent desire.... ooohhh! Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful!"}, {"response": 339, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "Ann, I am in awe! Is not English your second language? Wonderful, sweet, and passionate enough even for Cheryl. So glad that you consider us your friends, for I'm sure you would not perform before strangers in this excellent manner!"}, {"response": 340, "author": "mhc", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:38)", "body": "The proper HTML code for the copyright symbol is &#169; and the way to use it is \"\u00a9 Copyright 1997 Elizabeth Bennet Darcy\". It probably isn't necessary to include a copyright statement in a lot of cases, but it's true that it never hurts to put it in..."}, {"response": 341, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (15:21)", "body": "Nice trick Henry. How did you get & 169; to appear as plain text and not as \u00a9???"}, {"response": 342, "author": "mhc", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (15:32)", "body": "Here's what somebody posted to Usenet: From: lsg@xroads.com (Lester S. Garrett ciwah) Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html Date: Wed Jan 29 02:29:14 CST 199 ...Copyright accrues once the work is fixed in a medium -- the copyright notice is not required. However its use is recommended by the US Copyright Office: \". . .Use of the [copyright] notice is recommended [my emphasis - lsg] because it informs the public that the work is protected by copyright, identifies the copyright owner, and shows the year of first publication. Furthermore, in the event that a work is infringed, if the work carries a proper notice, the court will not allow a defendant to claim 'innocent infringement' -- that is, that he or she did not realize that the work is protected. (A successful innocent infringement claim may result in a reduction in damages that the copyright owner would otherwise receive.)\" From, Copyright Basics, Circular 1, Copyright Office, Library of Congress, Washington, DC 20559-6000 (June 1995)"}, {"response": 343, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Absolutely wonderful Anne2 - all the passion and feelings beautifully detailed. I loved it."}, {"response": 344, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (17:17)", "body": "Ann's story has been added to the Derbyshire Writers Guild page. (Though, I have been having a devil of a time FTPing stuff over to the Spring. Terry and others, why am I having so much trouble? I was trying to send stuff for an hour and having very little luck.)"}, {"response": 345, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (17:18)", "body": "Oh Ann! *samooch*"}, {"response": 346, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (20:28)", "body": "Ann: APPLAUSE!!"}, {"response": 347, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (22:44)", "body": "DARCY AND ELIZABETH: THE SEQUEL Elizabeth Bennett Darcy awoke to the delightful sights, sounds, and smells of her white-lace bedroom. Instinctively, she reached out to the pillow beside her her but the only trace of Mr Darcy that remained was the imprint of his handsome profile. Smiling to herself, Lizzy lifted the soft sheets to her chin. A blush danced across her face as she eyed the disheveled clothing on the floor. Mr Darcy had been in such a amorous hurry last night that he had torn her new green silk gown. Indeed, Mr Darcy had ord red the dress himself from Paris with the strictest of orders that it be made to compliment her fine eyes. Sighing, LIzzy rose from her sumptious bed and began to comb out her luxuriant, chesnut-colured hair. Suddenly, Darcy appeared, having just returned from his fencing match with Bates. Lizzy could not remember a time when her heart did not jump at the sight, touch, sound of him. Just last week, he had gone away to London for business and her heart had positively ached. So much in love was she with Mr Darcy. His white shirt suggestively clinging to his masculine shoulders, Darcy sat down beside her and began to brush her hair. This had become a game with them. \"Dearest, Lovliest Elizabeth. I have brought you some letters from Jane.\" \"Oh, Jane. How I miss her! And once again she wrote the address very ill indeed. This almost reminds me of the time I received that dreadful letter at the inn at Lambton-concerning Lydia's elopement. I thought I should never see you again after that. Poor Lydia. Poor, stupid girl. Mama tells me that she and Mr Wickham have just had another baby and they hardly have a thing to live on. Wickham spends it all drinking. \"My Darling-How I wanted to comfort you then,\" Darcy murmured passionatley in a voice that made Lizzy want to rip off his shirt. \"The pain and the torture-not being able to take you in my arms.\" Slowly, Darcy brushed Elizabeth's quivering lips and enfolded her in his strong embrace. His muscles tightening-he carried her to their rose-covered bed. \"When did you really fall in love with me, Fitzwilliam? The exact moment. You never really told me,\" Lizzy cooed in her most playful of voices, many hours later. \"You know you never opened Jane's letter, dearest,\" Darcy replied, tossing her one of his rare toothy grins. Smiling, Lizzy opened the letter, while Darcy kissed her fine eyes. Suddenly, Lizzy uttered a piercing cry. \"Dearest, Elizabeth. What is the matter? Is there nothing I can get you for your present relief? Darling-you look very ill indeed,\" a panic-stricken Darcy uttered, gazing at her blanched face. He could not bear to see her in so much pain. \"It's Father,\" Lizzy cried. He is most seriously ill.\" Without another word, Darcy reassuringly squeazed her hand and with one of his most intense looks, left the room. Such was their bond that Lizzy immediately knew he was off to make the necessary arrangements. \"I must get to Longbourn\", she whispered. \"Oh Jane-what you must have suffered!\""}, {"response": 348, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (00:57)", "body": "Ann2 - WOW! I can't believe English is not your first language. Your story was great! Cassandra - Wonderful! I just love having scenes of Darcy and Lizzy in love painted for me.:-)"}, {"response": 349, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (01:27)", "body": "probably isn't necessary to include a copyright statement in a lot of cases Why Mr HC you might have a point there... To Ann number one, I just saw your Derbyshire page, thank you my dear for taking all that trouble, I'm honoured to be member of such a distinguished society. Any chance we could be invited to Pemberley for some recital and supper? My humble offerings of gratitude to kind remarks from fellow addicts. The problem now of course is, to simply hold your horses... (Don't you agree?) Cassandra, love is all we need, n'est ce pas? Thank you for 'amorous hurry' and now you've got me worrying about Mr Bennet."}, {"response": 350, "author": "winter", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (03:14)", "body": "ann2 & cassandra: i've never swooned before...but i was definitely close. this is positively, absolutely, \"swooning material\". ah, how you spoil us!"}, {"response": 351, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (07:19)", "body": "Ann2 & Cassandra--thank you for the lovely stories. I enjoyed reading them very much. Summer Picnic Part I--Poetic License It was a lazy, hot July afternoon. Elizabeth and Darcy had decided a picnic would be the perfect way to spend the afternoon. Alone. Darcy found the perfect spot under an old oak tree, which provided some shelter from the heat. He had discarded his coat, waistcoat and cravat. They lunched on an excellent repast provided by Pemberley 's chef. Afterward, Lizzy was leaning back against the oak tree using Darcy's discarded jacket for a cushion while he lay with his head in her lap, resting a book upon his bent knee. Lizzy idly ran the fingers of her left hand through his curls, as he read to her from the book of Shakespearean sonnets.* He began to read in his rich voice, \"Those lips that Love's own hand did make Breathed forth the sound that said 'I hate' To me that languish'd for her sake;\" \"Did you languish for me?\" Lizzy interrupted. \"Forever, it seemed,\" Darcy replied. He caught her right hand and brought it to his lips. Lizzy gave him a smile. After locking her finger in his, he inquired \"Shall I continue?\" Lizzy nodded. But when she saw my woeful state, Straight in her heart did mercy come, Chiding that tongue that ever sweet Was used in giving gentle doom, And taught it thus anew to greet: 'I hate' she alter'd with an end, That follow'd it as gentle day Doth follow night, who like a fiend From heaven to hell is flown away; 'I hate' from hate away she threw, And saved my life, saying 'not you'. Elizabeth looked down at Darcy and smiled. \"Indeed, I hate not you.\" \"I believe you did at one time,\" he reminded her. \"Yes, but that was only when I first knew you. I have for some time considered you the best gentleman of my acquaintance.\" At Darcy's pleased look, she added, \"That is why I can forgive all your faults.\" \"You must be mistaken, my dear, for have on the best authority that I am a man without faults.\" \"Come, come, sir, this lack of modesty is quite unbecoming,\" \"I only speak the absolute truth,\" he said solemnly. He let go her hand, and began to seek another sonnet. At last he found the one he was looking for. Solemnly, he told Elizabeth, \"This sonnet is the one that best describes you, I think--and remember, I am only speaking the truth.\" He began to read \"My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;\" Elizabeth bit her lip to keep from laughing. It was one her favorite sonnets. Coral is far more red than her lips' red; If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun; \"A trifle tan perhaps\" she muttered as Darcy reached up and gently pulled one her curls. If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head. He let go the curl. It bounced back into place. I have seen roses damask'd, red and white, But no such roses see I in her cheeks; And in some perfumes is there more delight Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks. Elizabeth put her hands on her waist, the picture of (mock) indignation. I love to hear her speak, yet well I know That music hath a far more pleasing sound; I grant I never saw a goddess go; My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground: At this point, Elizabeth pushed Darcy off her lap, then pushed herself away from the tree so that she was in a kneeling position. As Darcy sat up, he abandoned the book, turned, and pulled Elizabeth into his arms, finishing the last couplet And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare As any she belied with false compare. Whereupon, he kissed her ardently and they tumbled to the ground. When they finally came up for air, Elizabeth muttered, \"Teasing, teasing man. Now I know what your cousin meant when he said you were lively enough in other places.\" Darcy lifted an eyebrow, and commented \"But my dear, I thought you already knew that.\" Elizabeth just laughed, and he resumed the embrace. Quick note: * first Sonnet is CXLV, second Sonnet is CXXX"}, {"response": 352, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (07:23)", "body": "Summer Picnic Part II--Stormy Weather They spent a great deal of time agreeably in engaged in this activity, so much so that they failed to notice that the sky had darkened. The first raindrops recalled Elizabeth and Darcy to their surroundings. The rain started gently at first, but soon was coming down fast and furious. The picnic was abandoned. Darcy placed his jacket over Elizabeth's shoulders (though it offered little protection against the downpour) grabbed her hand and began to run towards home. Mrs. Reynolds has been on the look out for the Master and Mistress of Pemberley since the first dark clouds had begun to gather on the horizon. She watching from the drawing room window when she spotted them. Darcy & Elizabeth were running, hand in hand, down hill through the buttercups. Mrs. Reynolds went off to see that there were plenty of towels, and some restorative brandy for their return. She failed to notice that they had stopped at the bottom of the hill. \"I must rest a moment\" gasped Elizabeth, for she was out of breath. \"But we are almost home,\" Darcy countered, ready to start again, \"and getting wetter every moment that we stay out doors.\" \"Please remember, sir, that my legs are not as long as yours, nor is a damp skirt conducive to running. I am already wet, a little more water will not make a difference.\" Darcy, thinking of their warm, dry bedroom, offered, \"Shall I carry you?\" Elizabeth nodded, \"Now that is what I call gentleman-like behavior.\" Darcy gave her a wicked grin, and instead of taking her up his arms as she expected, tossed her over his shoulder, and resumed his journey toward home. \"FITZWILLIAM DARCY!\" she exclaimed, but was having trouble to keep from laughing. Darcy set Elizabeth down just outside the doorway to Pemberley. He bowed low, \"I am ever at your assistance, my dear.\" Elizabeth sniffed haughtily, \"I believe it is customary to a thank a gentleman for such assistance, but I cannot,\" Elizabeth said, before entering the house in a credible performance of wounded dignity. Unfortunately, her performance was ruined as she went sliding on the newly polished floor. Darcy caught her, and picked her up his arm (this time in a much more romantic fashion) before she could suffer a severe wound to her.....dignity. During this contretemps, Darcy's jacket, which had somehow remaine upon Elizabeth's shoulders during their dash home, fell off."}, {"response": 353, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (09:56)", "body": "This part of the spring sure is exuberant, and has been so lately. As my homecomputor is down and has been so for the last days,I find it hard to get time enough to read all your stories (at work). But it is very nice to always find something new here. I have today been reading your 4 chapters of Darcy's sufferings, Ann, and I like them a lot. Ann wrote : \ufffdIf I could only have a chance to show her that I heard her words, and took them very much to heart; if I could know that she no longer thought ill of me, I could be content and would wish for nothing more--almost nothing more. If I could just see her again!\" Oh, Ann, one almost wishes to tell him that it will all end very well ;=) And the way Georgiana and Colonel Fitzwilliam share their worries about Darcy's mood is great. And now Carolyn's picnic...I'll dare to copy it(Copiator not placed in my room so someone might wonder about my kind of work!!) and bring it home with me to read before I go to sleep. \"Yes, I have been sad, have I not. That, my dear, is because the woman I love does not love me. While I was falling in love with her, it seems she was learning to hate me.\""}, {"response": 354, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (09:57)", "body": "Summer Picnic Part III--Private Reserves Darcy set Elizabeth down. Both were dripping water all over the floor. The damp fabric of of their clothes clung to their bodies. The footman, bringing up the restorative brandy, and the maid carrying the towels caught site of their Master and Mistress. Both were quite shocked with what they saw. The footman dropped his tray. The clang of metal, the shattering of fine crystal, and the smell of alcohol invaded the entry, startling everyone. Mrs. Reynolds, hurrying from below stairs ran smack into the maid, who had come to a standstill, gaping in a most unseemly fashion at Mr. Darcy. Mrs. Reynolds snapped \"Whatever are you doing\", she grabbed the towels, \"get below stairs, and tell Jessup to send someone up to clean this mess, now \" she added with an emphasis that finally broke through the girl's stupor. The maid turned and ran. Darcy accepted the towel Mrs. Reynolds gave him, and gently placed it around Elizabeth's shoulders, before accepting a second towel for himself. He glanced at the footman, who was by now trying to gather the larger pieces of glass off the floor. The footman, who would have tried to apologize if could have found his voice, instead mumbled incoherently, backed up and beat a hasty retreat below stairs as the clean up crew arrived. As soon as the glass was cleared away Mrs. Reynolds shooed Darcy & Elizabeth upstairs, \"I had them lay a nice fire in your rooms, you need to get out of those wet clothes, before you catch cold.\" Darcy followed Elizabeth up the stairs, but instead of going to his room, followed Elizabeth into hers. He sat down before the fireplace and began to remove his boots. \"These are utterly ruined,\" he sighed, when he noticed Elizabeth staring at him. \"What is it, my dear?\" he asked. \"I was just thinking that is a great pity you cannot always go about attired in such fashion,\" she stated, removing her own wet kid slippers. \"May I return the compliment, madam.\" Darcy grinned at her, removing his wet shirt, \"However, I fear there will too much broken crockery about the place.\" \"Whatever do you mean, sir?\" Lizzy asked, her mouth going dry at the sight before her. \"Take a look in the mirror,\" he suggested as he removed his socks. Elizabeth followed his advice, \"Oh, my\" she blushed, for what had been a perfectly respectable dress this morning, now revealed....everything. The thin cotton of her gown and petticoat had been no match for the pouring rain and were now transparent. Darcy came up behind her, and began to undo the buttons on the back of gown, \"Do you see the impracticality of this attire?\" he asked as he pushed the gown off her shoulders. Lizzy turned into his embrace, \"I see now that it would be impossible for either of us to go about in this rainment. What with footman dropping trays at the sight of me and maids coming to a standstill at the sight of you, the house would be a complete mess inside of a week.\" Her gown fell to the floor, though with a little help from Darcy. \"Exactly, it would be too great a distraction.\" He began to undo the buttons on her chemise. \"I would prefer to keep such enticements private\" he stated as the chemise fell open. \"Yes, our own private reserve,\" Elizabeth agreed as she pushed Darcy onto the bed and followed him. ************************************************************************* In the hallway Darcy's valet and Elizabeth's lady maid stood outside the door. The sounds eminating from the room informed them that their services would not be required at this time."}, {"response": 355, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:22)", "body": "Ouh Baby! What a picnic"}, {"response": 356, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "Ann2, Cassandra, and Carolyn-----What a treat this week has been! Thank-you!"}, {"response": 357, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (12:15)", "body": "Ann, Winter, Karen, Margaret-I thiank you for your compliments. Hope you enjoy the rest. And now parts 2& 3...."}, {"response": 358, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (12:15)", "body": "Ann, Winter, Karen, Margaret-I thank you for your compliments. Hope you enjoy the rest. And now parts 2& 3...."}, {"response": 359, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "Carolyn- you are such a busy girl! and to such great effect!"}, {"response": 360, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (14:04)", "body": "It's difficult keeping all this PG13, is it not? Perhaps this topic #43 is outgrowing Amy's perimeters (of staying within the limits for \"our younger friends\") and if so, I think this topic thread should be remodeled -relocated- outside to another conference, as was Drool, Nonsense, etc. What say you, Amy? As initiator of this topic 43, and considering also its length, I say it seems logical to shift it elsewhere (part to austenarchives, part to its own at...?) soon. BTW, I DO enjoy everybody's output here! (\"Prodigious,\" as Mr. Collins says)"}, {"response": 361, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (14:05)", "body": "Elizabeth and Darcy Chapter 2 It had been almost seven months since Elizabeth visited Longbourn. Pemberley was home now in every sense of the word. From the moment, she had gazed at its emerald-green foilage and sparkling pond, Elizabeth knew she had never seen a place so happily situated. And, to think that she was mistress of all that! The mere thought still overwhelmed her, even frightened her. As mistress of Pemberley, Elizabeth supervised the welfare and education of the estate families. Mr Darcy loved nothing more than to praise his wife's many accomplishments. For Lizzy, though, her beloved work was always secondary in her heart. She loved best those quiet, star-blanketed nights when the servants and Georgiana had gone to bed. Then, Darcy and she would take a turn about the gardens, while he delighted her with tales of his boyhood at Pemberley. Lizzy had never suspected Mr Darcy was such a compelling story-teller. Indeed, to be truthful, he was forever surprising her. It was one of the things she loved most about him, that intan ible sense of mystery. The carriage suddenly turned sharply to the right. A momentary sense of dread overtook her. Elizabeth knew they were but a few miles of Longbourn. \"I have been so consummed by my own happiness. I never one thought of my father,\" Elizabeth thought. Silently reading her thoughts, Darcy gently caressed her face and pulled her against him. They stayed in that most eloquent and intimate of embraces until a smiling Jane Bingley appeared before them. \"Oh Jane! Dearest Jane! How I have longed to see you,\" a teary-eyed Elizabeth cried as Mr Darcy hepled her out of the carriage. Jane met her sister's words with a heartfelt embrace. \"Oh Lizzy! And Mr Darcy-too. You are looking well. Charles will be so happy to see you. He is showing Aunt and Uncle Gardiner our new home in Meryton. But, they will be return soon. Yes-Mother sent for them too.\" If sincere happiness is said to be the best defense against age, then Jane Bingley was its greatest testament. Expecting the birth of her first child, Jane radiated goodness and youthful exhuberance. Indeed, to everyone, especially Charles, she was still the angelic creature who had captured his heart at the assembly ball, two and a half years ago. \"But, Jane-tell me about Papa.\" \"The doctor is with him now. They say it is his heart. He had an attack several weeks ago and he is very weak. Oh here is the Doctor now. Doctor Wentworth-may I present Mr and Mrs Darcy. \"Sir. M'am,\" the owl-eyed doctor muttered. I'm afraid I have no news of glad tidings. Ladies, you must prepare your mother. Mr Bennett has a heart. He denies it. But, he does. Any shock....But, I have done my best to keep him comfortable. \"Doctor, may I see him?\" an anxious Elizabeth asked. \"Yes-but alone. Your father is very weak.\" Squeazing Darcy's hand, Lizzy entered Mr Bennett's study. As she gazed at the impressive array of books and ever-present bottle of port, Elizabeth could not help smiling. Many a night, she and her father had taken refuge in this room, entertaining each other with stories of their neighbours. All at once, Lizzy glanced at the slight, emaciated figure on the divan and her heart leapt to her throat. \"Dearest, Papa,\" she cried, resting her hand on his forehead. \"Lizzy. Is that my Lizzy? Pleasure bent again, I see. How is that Darcy fellow treating you?\" Lizzy's happiness shone clearly and brightly on her face. \"Mr Darcy is the best of men. As I said, we have determined to be the happiest of couples.\" \"And-What about the infamous Lady Catherine de Bourg?\" \"She is at least civil to me in her letters. I am no longer referred to as Miss Bennett. She has thought it proper and time to call me Mrs Darcy. It enrages Darcy more than it does me.\" A sudden look at Mr Bennett's trembling hands brought a single tear down Elizabeth's face. \"Now Lizzy. None of that. We have enough tears in this house from your mother. \"Papa!\" \"And-Have you seen Mrs Bennett, yet? I'm sure she heard you drive up and sent Hill to investigate. I understand that she still keeps to her room above stairs and gives as much trouble as possible. Think what mischief she can make as a widow. I am almost sorry I won't be here to see it!\""}, {"response": 362, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (14:15)", "body": "By the way, Ann's, Carolyn's and the first part of Cassandra's stories are now available on the guild site: Derbyshire Writers Guild"}, {"response": 363, "author": "Saman", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (15:48)", "body": "Wow! I am in complete awe of your literary talents ladies, and Ann2 - don't you dare ever apologise for your English again ;) Thank you very much for several very happy minutes, and Ann, for making sure that I can relive them by visiting the Writer's Guild. Capital, capital!"}, {"response": 364, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:21)", "body": "Response 359 Caroline (Carolineevans) * Thu, Feb 6, 1997 (13:21) * 1 lines Carolyn-you are such a busy girl! and to such great effect! Thank you. I was trying to have a little fun. My other stories seem to be of a more serious nature. Response 360 of 363: Cecily (panache) * Thu, Feb 6, 1997 (14:04) * 5 lines It's difficult keeping all this PG13, is it not? Very difficult indeed! Cassandra, I am praying Mr. Bennet makes a full recovery!"}, {"response": 365, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:31)", "body": "Carolyn, I just loved the picnic - as Cheryl would say OOOHHH Baby!! Cass, Love your story, but please let Mr. Bennett get better after seeing Lizzie, I'd really hate to lose him!! Didn't he say he may outlive Mrs. B?? Great work everyone."}, {"response": 366, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:41)", "body": "Darcy and Elizabeth Chapter 3 \"Now, Lizzy. Be off like a good girl and let your poor Papa get some sleep. Perhaps, you can read to me later.\" Gently, Elizabeth bent her head and brushed Mr Bennett's cheek. Upon entering the parlour, she was delighted to see her Aunt Gardiner. \"Dearest Auntie. It is so good to see you again.\" The Gardiners would always be favorites with Elizabeth and Darcy and they frequently dined at Pemberley. As Darcy often said it was really the Gardiners who were responsible for bringing about their union. And Elizabeth could not thank them enough for bringing her to Derbyshire instead of their planned tour of the Lakes. \"But, Jane, Lizzy-where is Lydia?\" \"Charles and I sent an express the moment Father had his first attack. But, we have yet to receive any news. Perhaps-they didn't get it. That's what Charles thinks. They have been know to move around quite a bit. I am hopeful that we will hear some news soon.\" \"Still it is very odd,\" Aunt Gardiner said. Even if they have changed addresses, their correspondence would have been forwarded.\" \"Yes-very strange indeed, Elizabeth uttered. Lydia has always been a heartless, selfish girl.\" \"Oh Lizzy, cried Jane. You don't believe that Lydia would deliberately stay away. I know she would want to be here and comfort Mama.\" Sighing, Elizabeth gazed fondly at her sister. She often wished she could believe so fervently in the inherent goodness of people. Still, she knew Lydia and what a disaster she had brought on her family, once before, when she had eloped with Wickham. Oh-to think that she had once admired Mr Wickham and desired his attentions. The mere thought filled her with shame. \"Hateful! Insufferable man! How much we owe Darcy,\" Elizabeth thought as her eyes searched yearningly for his. Sensing her thoughts, Aunt Gardiner replied: \"Mr Darcy has gone off hunting with your Uncle and Charles. He instructed me to tell you he would be back shortly.\" \"Come Jane, then. Take me to Mama. Shall we bring her some tea?\" With a knowing look, the three ladies made their way upstairs. *************************************************************************** The scene which greeted Jane, Lizzy, and Aunt Gardiner was one to which they were all long accustomed: A plump Mrs Bennett sat in her usual habit of dresssing gown and nightcap, a box of chocolates and smelling salts beside her: These were her most trusted companions, next of course to the perpetually unmarried Kitty and Mary. All at once, Kitty began to cough uncontrollably. \"Oh hush up girl! Have you no compassion on my poor nerves?\" And your father's not even cold in his grave. Hill, where is Hill? I'm sure that was Lizzy!\" \"Here-Mama,\" Lizzy brightly said. \"My dear Lizzy! What fine jewels you have and what a pretty frock! Didn't I tell you that you would have better than Jane. Sister dear-did you know that the man has 10 000 a year, at the least. Bingley's wealth is nothing to his. They say he's the richest man in Derbyshire. My son-in-law-Mr Darcy! I don't know how poor Jane is going to manage with only 5000 a year with the baby coming. And if Bingley is anything like Mr Bennet, he will want another every year! \"Mother!\" a red-faced Jane exclaimed. \"Where is Mr Darcy, Lizzy? You know I always liked him-such gentlemen-like manners. I knew he was in love the minute he saw you and told Mary. So smooth. \"Mother-you told me no such thing,\" replied an indignant Mary. \"Oh hush up Girl! Who asked you?\" Oh Jane-Oh Lizzy-Have you heard from Lydia. I know it is that Wickhan devil that keeps her away for she's not the sort of girl who would do a thing like that. Have you seen your father, Lizzy? Is he dead yet? I tell you no one knows what I suffer. I have such pains in my chest and such beatings in my heart that I can get no rest, not night or day! And-that odious man-Mr Collins! He has already sent a letter and your father not even in his grave. They can't wait to throw u out to starve in the streets. Oh JAne, Jane....I say it is all his wife's doing. Those Lucases were always artful creatures. I've always said that are just out for what they can get. Oh-what is to become of us all-I do not know. If you had only married Mr Collins, Lizzy. But, you are much better off where you are. Oh Jane-where's my smelling salts......."}, {"response": 367, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:53)", "body": "Oh God! Cassandra I guess we could say this is how she might react,but I could see her having no trouble moving in with Jane. Mr.Bennet story has bought tears to my eyes. I sure hope he recovers. I hope it isn't anything I have said about PG13. I guess it is up to Amy."}, {"response": 368, "author": "winter", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (20:26)", "body": "CAROLYN! high praises are due, indeed! You are pushing the limits of the P&P2 Scenes and Drooling conference, aren't you?! (but that's a good thing!) Cassandra, I beg of you... Please spare dear old Mr. Bennett! Poor Lizzy will feel his loss the most if anything happens. At least let him live to see his first grandchild! (grandson, especially) ...oh boy. I'm really going to have to manage my on-line time"}, {"response": 369, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (22:44)", "body": "All three parts of Cassandra's story are now on the guild site. Derbyshire Writers Guild"}, {"response": 370, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (23:22)", "body": "My dear Carolyn, Ooh Baby, Ooh Baby, Ooh Baby! Thank you! And Cass dearest... Must you? Must you really?"}, {"response": 371, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (02:20)", "body": "Carolyn - I used to think I wanted to be Lizzy. . . now I KNOW!! Keep up the good work.:) Cassandra - Please, please don't let Mr. Bennett die."}, {"response": 372, "author": "panache", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:07)", "body": "Re: #368- You are pushing the limits of the P&P2 Scenes and Drooling conference, aren't you?! (but that's a good thing!) Well, as long as it doesn't become too risque for our 9 and 11 year old readers who visit here periodically...After reading the above #368 comment, it has once more occurred to me how old-fashioned I am, despite a weird sense of humor. Maybe that is why Jane Austen still appeals to me the most- so much left unsaid or subtly hinted at from an almost cerebrally wry humor perspective, as opposed to what our own styles focus on today. We may be good, but she had the spark of genius. Her stories sure allow or great spinoffs, right? Shall be on leave from the BB for a time, but best regards to all, Cecily"}, {"response": 373, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (01:23)", "body": "Emma-Deja-vu Part 1 Emma Woodhouse Knightley, handsome, clever and rich, with a comfortable hoome and a happy disposition, seemed to unite some of the best blessings of existence. But, even at the age of two and twenty, she was still vexed by how little she knew of the world and by how much she had yet to learn. \"Oh, but, how could he leave me like that?\" Emma incredulously thought, shivering in her cream chiffon evening gown. \"And without so much as a word or look of kindness. Emma shivered from a combination of cold and despair as the rain beat furiously at the windowpane. Pulling at her pink hair ribbon, her mind raced back to the events of that very evening. For it was only but four hours ago that she and Mr Knightley had so eagerly and happily anticipated the party at the Westons. Indeed, as was custom, it was Mr Knightley who had dismissed the maid and helped Emma dress, deciding finally on the aforementioned white dress, and simple strand of pearls set so bewitchingly around her swan-like neck. \"You take my breath way, my darling Emma. I have never seen you look lovelier,\" murmured Knightley passionately, arms encircled protectively about his young bride's waist. Bending his head, Knightley impulsively bestowed a playful kiss at the nape of Emma's neck. Cheeks burning bright, Emma trembled with secret delight. She knew that she would always remember how vulnerably handsome Knightley looked that evening. Indeed, she could see this admiration reflected not only in her countenance, but in the eyes of both men and women at the party. Mr Knightley's firm, upright shoulders, thick chesnut-curls, and gentlemen-like manners easily set him apart from the rest. AS Emma hers lf had noted with singular pride, he virtually towered over the other men. And-how he had looked at her when she had played the pianoforte for the Coles, as if he wanted nothing more than to take her in his arms and cover her face in kisses. It made Emma's heart ache to think how desperately she wanted and needed him. All at once, a quiet knock at the door suddenly disturbed Emma from her reverie. \"Knightley,\" she cried,\" a faint smile creeping across her face. \"No, Ma'am-t'is not the master. Will you needing any help tonight, Ma'am? Undressing I mean.\" \"No, Kitty, that will be all,\" a dejected Emma managed to utter. \"Oh Kitty-Mr Knightley- did he say where he was going tonight?\" \"I believe he told James that he had business to take care of with Mr Martin, early tomorrow morning. So, he would be staying at Donwell tonight. Ma'am-you look awfully pale. Is there anything I can get you? Receiving no audible reply, Kitty left an even more agitated Emma, alone once again with her thoughts. \"Oh God that I had never seen that Harriet Martin! That nasty, freckled face little thing,\" Emma cried passionately. It was not that Emma envied or was remotely threatened by Harriet. In public, in fact, she deliberately praising Harriet's considerable virtues as a mother. Her little Johnny was already a strapping young lad of two and a great favorite amongst the people of Hartfield. What truly vexed Emma, then, was when Mr Knightley complimented Harriet. This was not often, usually following one of his t ips to Donwell, and to be truthful his praise included Robert Martin as much as his wife, Harriet. Still Emma found it unbearable to hear Mr Knightley's exclamations of what a good mother Harriet was, and what a charming, clean, little house she kept. Even more unbearable to Emma, this very evening, was the way Harriet had accepted Mr Knightley's arm at the party. Robert Martin was ill with a slight cold; thus, Mr Knightley escorted both Harriet and Emma to the Westons'dinner table. \"So familar,\" Emma thought. \"As if she were Mrs Knightley!\" Such was her state of her mind, then, that she couldn't resist plunging Harriet's spirits at the party. After managing to finish a rather halting solo at the pianoforte, Harriet immediately turned to Mrs Knightley or encouragement. \"Mrs Knightley-do tell me honestly. Has my playing improved?\" \"Was that really all, My dear Mrs Martin? I've known four year olds who could play better than that. And after a year of my own tutelage.\" Almost immediately Emma regretted what she had said and if she needed any further help, she only had to remember the devastated look on her husband's face and the stinging words he had spoken to her during the long carriage ride home. \"Emma-How could you say such a thing to Harriet? And in front of all of our friends-shaming her like that. Badly Done, Emma. Badly done.\" Emma felt deep remorse and mortification deep in her soul. \"Oh God-What have I done?\" she cried, throwing herself on the bed. And so she cried herself to sleep, her tears staining the pillow."}, {"response": 374, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (02:46)", "body": "Emma-Deja-vu Part 2 Emma Knightley spent the most wretched night of her existence. She doubted even getting a hour's sleep. And, as if she needed any further proof, she only had to peer into the looking glass, perched opposite her. Emma's cheeks flushed hot as she recalled Kitty's knowing looks at her dark circles and pallor, earlier this morning when she brought up the breakfast tray. Emma could hardly swallow a bite. Her every thought was consummed by Mr Knightley and what he must be thinking. Wrapping her dressing gown around her shoulders, Emma began to restlessley pace the floor. Almost immediately, she grabbed a pen and paper and began writing a letter to Harriet. Shamefully, she knew that she could not face her yet. Ringing for Kitty, she then instructed her to send the letter and draw her bath. This in many ways revived Emma's strength, although not her spirits. The whole day in fact she purposefully kept to her bedchamber. \"I don't want to worry, Father,\" she thought. \"Or worse still, have him send for Perry.\" Emma had even made a pact with herself that if Mr Knightley did not appear before six o'clock, she would go after him. This was not a time for ladylike restraint. And, so Emma watched the hours go by one after the other on her mantel clock, until the hour finally came. Almost relieved, she flung her coat about her shoulders, bearly hearing Mr Woodhouse's breathless cries. \"But Emma-dear. It's going to rain again. You'll catch your death in this cold.\" It was cold and terribly damp, the wind howled against Emma's lightweight cloak. However, onwards she went, oblivious to everything and everyone except her desire to feel Mr Knightley's strong, tender arms about her. She knew she could not bear another night without him next her. Finally reaching Donwell, Emma's sprits flagged upon finding the house all but empty. Only the housekeeper, Mrs Jennings, remained. Graciously excusing herself, Emma made her way to the Gardens, but still there was no Mr Knightley. She was on the verge of regretting this stupid, idiotic escapade when she suddenly heard a voice call her name. Spinning about, Emma's eyes instantly met his and without a shred of caution, she instantly flew into Knightley's arms, covering his face with kisses. \"Oh my Darling-can you ever forgive me? I've behaved like such a stupid child. Such a jealous fool. It's only beacause I'm so madly in love with you. I couldn't bear another night without you.\" \"My Darling-I'll never forget the look on your face last night. Emma dearest-you know I'm no speechmaker, but how I wanted to rush back and take you in my ar,s last night. Wretched night! The torture-not being able to hold you, to... \"Do not speak of it! I tell you do not speak! And with that, Emma brushed his lips with the sweetest of embraces. \"Hold me, don't ever let me go,\" Emma pleaded as Knightley drew her closer and closer to him. \"But-Here-My Darling!\" \"I don't care if the whole world sees us.\" Ever so gently, Mr Knightley, then, lowered his bride to the ground, his breath hot on her face. Emma could feel the insistent pounding of his heart against hers. For so long, due to the differences in their ages, he had been almost afraid to show Emma the full extent of his passion. Suddenly, clothing became superfluous. Knightley's lips burned her forehead, eyes and cheeks, until finally meeting her own in the most tender of embraces. Emma felt herself flying as never before. Running her fingers through his hair, she even called him George. So down and down they went, having to remind each other that it wasn't a dream.... At dawn, as luck would have it, Mr Woodhouse's prediction came true and it furiously started to rain. Wrapping Emma in his blue coat, Knightley swept her up in his arms and carried her into the house. And, so Emma blissfully awoke with Mr Knightley's arms still wrapped around her..."}, {"response": 375, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:05)", "body": "Before I get a reputation, I am sending these two scences. The first one is very quick, the other is somewhat long, however both are very PG. Darcy's Letter to Lady Catherine, telling of his engagement Madam, You longer need be concerned with any rumors regardiang myself and Miss Bennet, for she has done me the very great honor of accepting my offer of marriage. I am sorry if the news I related causes you pain, but I cannot deny my own happiness in order to ensure yours . Even though this letter must put an end to those hopes which you have longed entertained, I beg you will harbour any resentment towards myself or Miss Bennet. The marriage is to take place on the --th of December at Longbourne Church. It is our sincere wish for both you and Cousin Anne to be there. Your nephew, Fitzwilliam Darcy."}, {"response": 376, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Now for the longer story: The Billiard Lesson Time: Shortly after Darcy becomes engaged to Elizabeth--it is not public knowledge yet. Part 1 Caroline had just finished breakfast when a letter from her brother arrived. The servant brought it to her on a silver platter. She reviewed the letter with great interest. Though it contained much drivel on the many stunning qualities of Miss Jane Bennet that she felt were quite unwarranted, it did contain the invitation to come and stay at Netherfield until the wedding. \"Louisa, listen to this\" she ordered, as she began to read the letter out loud, ........I would be greatly pleased if you, Louisa and Arthur could join me here. Darcy, who is to be my best man, is already in residence........ Caroline looked up from the letter, \"So that is were he has gone. I had noticed him missing from the theater the other night. When I asked Georgiana, she said he had been visited by Lady Catherine de Bourgh, and left almost immediately after his aunt. I had thought he was in Kent on some family business. But no doubt he has gone to try talk some sense into Charles.\" \"Very likely, my dear,\" Louisa agreed, as she buttered her toast. \"Now would be a good time to secure his affections for when one's friends start to marry, it plants the germ of the idea of marriage into a man's brain. How can the seed fail to grow when given the proper inducement?\" \"Oh, I quite agree. Do you think being exposed to the charms of Mrs. Bennet will cure Darcy of his infatuation with Miss Elizabeth Bennet?\" Caroline still felt the sting of his defense for that woman last August. \"I fail to see how it can do otherwise\" Louisa stated, then proceeded to do a wicked imitation of Mrs. Bennet \"I'll have you know, sir, that we dine with quite four and twenty families.\" Oh, Louisa, you are too cruel\" Caroline dissolved into tittering laughter. When she had recovered from this merriment, she asked, \"Do you think you could be ready to leave by this afternoon?\" \"I doubt Arthur will be, but he can come tomorrow or the day after. If we pack lightly today, he can carry the extra baggage when he comes.\" Thus it was decided between the Superior Sisters that they would leave that very afternoon."}, {"response": 377, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:07)", "body": "Part 2 Since Caroline's and Louisa's idea of packing light was to carry no more than ten pieces of baggage--each--it took them longer than they had anticipated to get ready for the journey. Mr. Hurst, further delayed their departure, for when arriving home to find the house in chaos, demanded to know what was going on. When told of the invitation to Netherfield, he decided to accompany the two ladies (for Bingley's stock of brandy was of much finer quality than his own). Mr. Hurst then had to fortify himself with a large amount of his own inferior brandy (to avoid being sick in the carriage). When he was near a comatose state, the ladies had the footmen bundle him into the carriage, where his snores provided background noise for the entire journey. During the journey, the sisters entertained themselves by putting down the entire Bennet family, (even Jane was characterized as being too sweet, she made their teeth ache). They also discuss what the best way to get Darcy's attention, since nothing Caroline had done previously had provided any results. This failure on the part of Darcy to recognize her true worth often vexed Caroline, but not so greatly that she gave up trying to capture his interest. His wealth, connections, and looks made him the most desirable man she knew, and she was not about to give up and she would marry him. She would!"}, {"response": 378, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:08)", "body": "Part 3 Jane and Elizabeth were to visit Netherfield that day. Mr. Bingley had come up with the excellent excuse that Jane must come over to see if there was any changes she wished to make in the furnishings, etc. Mrs. Bennet had eagerly anticipated this diversion, and was to come along with her \"favorite daughters\". However, circumstances prevented her from doing so. It was cold day, with a mix of precipitation that could not decide if it wanted to be rain or snow. Mrs. Bennet passed the morning in a boastful gossip session with Mrs. Phillips and Lady Lucas. She was just seeing them off when she slipped on the rain slick step and twisted her ankle rather badly. The house was thrown into an uproar. After escorting Mrs. Bennet into the drawing room, Jane did a quick examination of her mother's ankle. It was swollen twice the normal size. Mr. Bennet came into the r om, upon seeing that Mrs. Bennet was truly injured, went to fetch the doctor. When the doctor came, he examined Mrs., Bennet's ankle, bandaged it, and ordered her to remain off it for the next two weeks. He then presented his bill to Mr. Bennet, and left. As soon the doctor left, Mrs. Bennet was determined to get up. \"For there are wedding clothes to see to, wedding plans to be made, and who will see to all the details if I do not. What do doctors know anyway?\" But the moment she tried she fell back against the sofa, the pain from her ankle to great to be born. \"Oh, Jane, Oh Lizzy, I do not what will become of your weddings. I do not! For who will see to the wedding clothes if I do not. Then there is the wedding breakfast to plan and, oh, Jane, who is to help you choose the new furnishings for Netherfield? Oh, it will all end in disaster, I know it will.\" She continued to bemoan her fate in this fashion for quite some time. \"I shall write to Mr. Bingley and cancel our visit,\" Jane said, only to be interrupted by her mother. \"No, Jane, you must go, for I am sure Mr. Bingley is anxious to show you your new home. And Lizzy will be accompanying you, for I am sure she is looking forward to seeing Mr. Darcy. And if you do not go then Mr. Bingley and Mr. Darcy will be pounding on the door, and I really do not believe my nerves up to entertaining either of them today. I will be fine with Mary, Kitty and Hill. Sara will go along to lend propriety. Hill, have them bring the carriage around.\" Mrs. Bennet had settled the matter. Further protests from Jane and Elizabeth were silenced--if Mr. Bingley and Mr. Darcy wanted them at Netherfield, they would go to Netherfield. No argument could persuade Mrs. Bennet to change her mind, and as she would not rest until she had seen that they were safely off, Elizabeth and Jane set off for Netherfield."}, {"response": 379, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:10)", "body": "Part 4 They reached their destination shortly. Bingley and Darcy were anxiously awaiting their fiancees. Both gentlemen were relieved that Mrs. Bennet was not one the party (though they did their best to conceal their delight) and expressed the proper concern for her injury. Amongst the four of them it was decided that a tour of Netherfield was the first order of business. Sara begged leave to visit her cousin who was a maid at Netherfield. She was escorted below stairs by the housekeeper, who could see that the gentlemen did not mind not having the maid trailing in their wake. Sara was given two tasks below stairs--polishing the silver with her cousin and giving a detailed account of the morning's events at Longbourn to the rest of the servants. The tour of the house lasted almost an hour. The foursome made their way about the house--up to the third floor (Jane and Bingley both blushed on the discovery of the nursery)-- down to kitchens and most of the rooms in between. They gathered in the drawing room for some refreshing tea. Bingley asked Jane if how she liked the house and were there any changes she wanted to make? \"I think it is a perfectly lovely house,\" Jane smiled. \"And do you think you will be happy here?\" Bingley asked hopefully. \"Oh, very happy\" Jane replied, looking at Bingley lovingly. Darcy looked at Elizabeth, and rolled his eyes. Elizabeth suppressed a burst of laughter. \"Jane, how can you say that, why you have not seen the entire house. We missed the billiard room. I discovered it myself, when I stayed on while you were ill. It engendered in me a desire to know more of the game.\" She looked Darcy as she said this. \"Shall I teach to play, then?\" Darcy asked. \"Would you?\" Elizabeth answered, \"now?\" \"Of course, I taught my sister years ago. If your sister and Bingley will come along, then I see no reason why you cannot have your first lesson today?\" Jane, having no real interest in game, came along just lend Elizabeth support. They all trooped off to the billiard room. The gentlemen remove their coats, for it was impossible to play the game in their restrictive outer garments. After a short lecture on the rules and object of the game, Darcy and Bingley played the first round, to show Jane and Elizabeth how the game was played. The second game was for Jane and Elizabeth to play. Bingley moved beside Jane to tell her how to make the shot. Jane listened carefully, tried her best to follow his instructions, but the shot was missed. \"Bingley, that will no do, you will never be able to teach Miss Bennet to shoot properly that way. Elizabeth, if I may\" Darcy put his arms around Elizabeth, and began to show her the proper positioning of her hands on the cue stick by covering them with his own. As she leaned over to make the shot, he leaned with her, and whispering words of instruction into her ear, they hit the cue ball and were able to scatter the rest of the balls across the table. \"Are certain this is the way you taught your sister to play?\" Lizzie asked. \"She was six or seven at the time, and it seemed the best way to go about it, don't you agree?\" \"Yes\" said both Elizabeth and Bingley, who placed his arms around Jane. They continued to wile away the afternoon playing tandem billiards. At around six that evening, the sound of carriage was heard entering the courtyard and assuming that it was the carriage from Longbourn come to collect Jane and Elizabeth, it was decided that this would be the final round."}, {"response": 380, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "Part 5 Outside, Caroline, Louisa and the still recumbent Mr. Hurst had arrived. Louisa decided she wanted to rest, since it would be awhile before a late supper could be provided. She directed the footmen where to deposit Mr. Hurst. Caroline, eager to find Mr. Darcy, instructed Fawcett to lead her to him. He led to the billiard room. She felt her jealousy rise when she heard a voice from within call out \"Oh, Jane, it will not do.\" She nearly trampled the footman before he could announce her. \"Miss Caroline Bingley,\" Fawcett announced, quickly stepping out of her way, for it looked like she was ready to run him down. For a moment Caroline was taken aback by what she saw in the room. the was Darcy with arms around Miss Eliza Bennet, leaning over the billiard table. She failed to notice that Bingley still had his arms around Jane. The quartet turned toward her. Charles greeted her rather oddly \"Caroline, your timing, as always, is perfect.\" Darcy gave him a enigmatic look. The sound of a second carriage arriving could clearly be heard in the room. It was the carriage they had anticipated earlier, come to take Jane and Elizabeth back to Longbourn. Darcy stepped away from the table and putting on his jacket, offered his arm to Elizabeth. Charles, raised Jane's hand to his lips. He then whispered in her ear \"Go with your sister and Darcy, for I some things to discuss with my sister.\" Jane looked at him questioningly, but he just smiled. She walked to the opposite end of the table. Darcy lifted an eyebrow in silent query, and Bingley gave a slight nod. He offered his other arm to Jane and the trio left the room. Miss Bingley was ready to follow them when her brother ordered, \"Caroline, Stay,\" in a tone of voice that she had never heard before. She looked at him, ready to walk of the room, but something in his countenance caused her to rethink her plans. She went to the window to view the departure of the sisters Bennet. Bingley went back to playing billiards. The crack of ball hitting ball was the only sound in the room. From the window Caroline watched as Darcy helped Jane into the carriage. He lingered a few moments talking with Miss Elizabeth Bennet before finally kissing her hand and seeing safely into the carriage. He dallied at the carriage side until a maidservant came running up from below stairs. She bobbed a quick curtsey and would have scrambled into the carriage when Darcy gallantly offered his hand and assisted the maid into the carriage. As the carriage drove off he turned to the window, as if sensing Caroline's eyes upon him. He tipped his hat to the window, the went for a w lk in the garden to cool his......thoughts. In the carriage, Sara could not help blurting out \"Oh Miss Eliza, ain't you a lucky one!\" Elizabeth smiled and agreed. \"Not that Mr. Bingley is not a fine gentleman"}, {"response": 381, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "OOPS! the final paragraph should have read: In the carriage, Sara could not help blurting out \"Oh Miss Eliza, ain't you a lucky one!\" Elizabeth smiled and agreed. \"Not that Mr. Bingley is not a fine gentleman also, Miss Jane\" Sara felt compelled to add. ***************************************************************************** Part 6 Back in the billiard room Caroline watched Darcy wander into the garden. Charles no longer seemed threatening, not with thought of Darcy being in need of her company. She was making excuses to her brother so could rush to join him, but Bingley was quicker. He placed the cue stick in front of her. \"Charles, what are doing?\" Caroline asked crossly, pushing aside the stick and making for the door. \"They are getting married.\" Caroline stopped. \"What are you talking about?\" she snapped, very much afraid she already knew the answer. \"Darcy and Miss Bennet are getting married. The announcement should appear in the papers tomorrow.\" Charles felt a certain sense of satisfaction at the look of horror that appeared on her face. It was mean and base of him to take pleasure in her discomfiture, but by God, she deserved it. \"No, it is impossible, Darcy married to that, ...that.....\" words failed her, \"you are lying. You must be lying.\" Bingley looked at her, \"I am not lying. I fear I do not have your talent for that.\" He then returned to billiard table, and sunk the final black ball. Bingley retrieved his jacket, and left her alone in the room."}, {"response": 382, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:17)", "body": "OOPS 2, should read: He placed the cue stick in front of her to block her way. \"Charles, what are you doing?\" Caroline asked crossly, pushing aside the stick and making for the door."}, {"response": 383, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:25)", "body": "This is great Carolyn. I love it all and am anxiously waiting to read of Caroline's face when she sees what's going on in the Billiard room. In fact, I'm LOL just thinking about it ahead of time! Warning, more Little Fitz coming tomorrow!!"}, {"response": 384, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:41)", "body": "I guess I sent my last post in the midst of your posting the entire story. I take nothing back, though, it's still GREAT!! Caroline finally gets her comeuppance, and at Charles' hands at that. Just love it!!;-)"}, {"response": 385, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (19:26)", "body": "I would like to appologise to France for not properly attributing the authorship of The Gypsy Baron story on the guild site. I was completely unaware that a large portion of the story was in fact written by France, and not by Carolyn as I had erroneously attributed it. My excuse is that France's portion appeared in the \"Drooling\" topic and my attentions were soley focused on this topic. It was not my intention to overlook France's contribution and I am sorry that I made this error. If I have made other errors, or if I make them in the future, please let me know, and I will correct them as quickly as I can. Once again, I am sorry for this error. It has been corrected. Ann"}, {"response": 386, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (20:42)", "body": "Carolyn - great. I do love it. the scene of the two engaged couples playing \"tandem pool\" like a quartet of love struck teenages on a double date was great!"}, {"response": 387, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (21:09)", "body": "Carolyn, I particularly love the letter to Lady C (#375) -- really puts her in her place and sounds just like Darcy wrote it."}, {"response": 388, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (14:37)", "body": "I,too, liked the letter very well! More Fitz!"}, {"response": 389, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (15:13)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--Part 10 Charles Fitzwilliam and his family left Pemberley at the start of the new year, but John remained behind; after two years away from England, he was allowed several months rest from his regiment and he enjoyed the quiet winter months with his sister, brother-in-law, and nephew. Fitzwilliam was glad to have John's company, especially when he related tales of his experiences in Canada. In the middle of January, Fitzwilliam was invited to a party at the Wickham's house for George's ninth birthday. As he entered the house with Mr. Stone the noise emanating from the main room quite overwhelmed him; boys laughing and shouting, girls giggling, a baby crying, and adults talking in groups when not calling to one or another of the children. He shrank back a little, not really wishing to enter this fray but Mr. Stone urged him on. He found George in the midst of a large chattering group; Fi zwilliam offered his congratulations, was introduced to the others and was soon drawn into various games, such as Hunt the Slipper and Oranges and Limes, being organized by George's oldest sister. He enjoyed the games and was sorry they ended when it was time for supper. As the guests collected for the refreshments, Fitzwilliam noticed a small group of girls huddled together giggling as they looked at him and, on the other side of the room, some boys also looking at him and whispering; it made him feel extremely uncomfortable, as if he were an object of ridicule or a misfit in this company. The dining room was set up with several tables and the guests were soon seated; the adults together at one table, the boys at another, and the girls at yet a third table. Fitzwilliam was glad of this natural division; he would not have known what to say to any of these rather silly girls who had little or no education and talked only of dresses and each others' looks. But his relief was quickly overcome by disgust when he noticed the behaviour of some of the boys at his table. They lacked any table ma ners and were soon throwing food across the table at each other. He watched them with horror, said nothing, ate very little, and sincerely wished he were at home with his parents. Further trials awaited Fitzwilliam after the supper was done. There was to be dancing and he would have to stand up with one or two of these girls. He eventually stood up with George's sister, three years his senior. They talked not at all; she was in too much awe of dancing with Mr. Darcy's son to venture any of her usual flirtatious conversation while he was completely unable to find anything to say that could have interested a girl. After two dances he was happy to escort his partner back to her s at, find Mr. Stone, say goodnight and thank Mr. and Mrs. Wickham and George, and head back home. It had been an evening he did not want to repeat any time soon. At home he related the evening's events to his parents. They agreed that it must have been difficult for him but were glad that he had engaged in the games and had danced a little; they tried to explain that most of the children had not had his advantages of education and polite society and that he should not judge them harshly. They reminded him that his future social position would put him in a very different circle; while he need never mingle with these local people on a daily basis, he should alway be polite and generous, even if there was little of common interest between them."}, {"response": 390, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (15:16)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--Part 11 John Fitzwilliam had divided his winter between his brother Charles, the Darcys, London and Bath. Toward the end of March when the Darcys were preparing for their annual visit with the De Bourghs at Rosings, Thomas suggested that John might like to accompany them. \"You would provide company for me and Fitz, especially since Lewis is not at all well this year,\" Thomas added. \"Yes, I suppose I should see Catherine, Lewis and Anne before I rejoin my regiment and since you will be there it will not be all bad. I can tell you, privately, I do not think I would go for more than a few days on my own.\" The party, which this year included Mr. Stone instead of Miss Field, reached Rosings at the beginnning of April. Fitzwilliam was glad of Mr. Stone's company; he would be able to continue his lessons instead of being forced into Anne's company all day and, at the end of their visit, they were to stay in town for a few weeks and he would be able to explore that great city with his tutor. They were welcomed by Lady Catherine on their arrival at Rosings who immediately informed them that there was another visitor, one she had never met before and had never expected to see at Rosings. \"A distant cousin of Sir Lewis surprised us yesterday when he arrived here in a very dishevelled state,\" she told them as she led the way to the morning room where they were introduced to the twenty year old Vicomte Pierre de Bourgh. Pierre had just escaped from France where his father, the former Vicomte, had met his death by the guillotine. His mother had been too ill to endure the se voyage to England and had remained in France with her sister. After the introductions, during refreshments, Fitzwilliam noticed that Pierre stood apart, silent, thoughtful, sad and uncomfortable. He remembered George's party where he, too, had felt like an outsider and thought how terrible he would feel if he were to lose his father. Fitzwilliam was very sorry for Pierre and, trying to raise his spirits, started to tell him all about Rosings and what there was to do in the park and in the neighbourhood. The latter listened politely but answered in French; Fitzwi liam realized that Pierre did not speak English while he spoke no French and thought that perhaps they could teach each other. For the first time ever at Rosings he anticipated some interesting days ahead instead of Lady Catherine's usual tedious pronouncements. Fitzwilliam was forced to take his dinner with Anne and her governess. He found Anne a little bigger than the previous year but no more talkative; she ate very little, said less, was uninterested in his attempts to tell her about their journey south, and looked as if she were about to cry at the smallest provocation. He would much rather have been with the adults but knew that was impossible in this house. Lady Catherine's sense of decorum ruled here and her word was not to be questioned in her home. He was allowed to join the adults after dinner. Sir Lewis, looking weak and frail compared to the previous year, retired soon after Fitzwilliam joined the group. Seeking out Pierre, he suggested they play backgammon or chess by pointing at the games with a questioning look; they settled at the backgammon table and the two of them were able to converse with the help of pointing and giving the words in their respective language. By the end of the evening Fitzwilliam's knowledge of French included such w rds as salon for drawing room, salle a manger for dining room, chaise for chair, and bon soir for good evening. Fitzwilliam was proud of his new accomplishment and Pierre was equally delighted to have found such a young, sympathetic friend who was willing to provide him with some diversion."}, {"response": 391, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (15:19)", "body": "YOUNG FITZWILLIAM DARCY--Part 12 The next day, after his lessons, Fitzwilliam saw his father and John walking in the park and ran to join them. They were talking about the situation in France and Fitzwilliam listened intently as they discussed the revolution, Robespierre, the Reign of Terror, and the recent declaration of war between England and France after the execution of King Louis XVI. \"Why did they execute the King, Father?\" Fitz asked. \"That is a good question, Fitz, for which I have no real answer. It was probably a grab for power by some and a crowd reaction by the majority. But you must remember, they are not the first nation to behead a king; remember Charles I?\" \"Oh yes, but that was so long ago.\" Fitz replied. \"Is Robespierre another Cromwell do you think?\" \"He would like to think he is, Fitz\" John said, \"but whether he will remain in power as long as Cromwell is very doubtful. These are difficult times, Fitz, and there is revolution everywhere. There was one in the American colonies and there is even one going on right now in England. \"There is not any revolution in England surely,\" Fitz claimed, amazed. \"Not in the sense of the American or French revolutions, I agree. The one here is a quiet, more insidious revolution--an industrial change that began about twenty years ago and is only now beginning to be felt. This revolution, I think, will continue far into the future, perhaps until your children and grandchildren are old men, Fitz.\" Turning to Thomas, John continued, \"You must have seen the growth of industry throughout the land, Thomas. I believe it will continue to increase, towns will grow and take over all the neighboring farmlands, and merchants will grow rich while farmers will struggle to produce food for all those people living in the towns. And the farmers, I think, will not want to remain tenants; they will want to own their farms.\" John seemed to be warning his friend while his nephew listened; he had seen and learnt uch during his travels and stay in Canada. Mr. Darcy understood John's caution and remarked \"you may well be correct, John; but I have not seen any signs of such change in Derbyshire, except perhaps the new pottery kilns, and they are more like cottage industries than big factories. And my tenants seem to be perfectly content, at least at present.\" \"But look at the cotton industry in Lancashire, Thomas. The land in Derbyshire is not as conducive to large industries; and your tenants are content because you are a very benevolent and tolerant landlord, \" John responded, \"but the time will come, perhaps not for another one hundred years, when such large landholdings will be a thing of the past.\" \"Well, I shall be just as benevolent and tolerant, so everything at home will stay the same,\" Fitz declared, adding \"I love Pemberley and I never want it to change.\" \"That is very proper, Fitz,\" said John, \"but I think you should not trouble yourself with all the world's problems right now. If you keep to your studies and learn about the past as well as the present then you may be able to benefit from all these upheavals either to prevent or be prepared for them in the future.\" Fitzwilliam had much to think about as he went upstairs to prepare for dinner."}, {"response": 392, "author": "halgor", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (16:49)", "body": "Inko -- It is truly excellent! ! !"}, {"response": 393, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (17:02)", "body": "Inko- this is beautiful- as usual!He's still so cute!"}, {"response": 394, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (17:08)", "body": "Ann, thanks for putting France as author for Gypsy Baron . Inko, as always, it is delightful to visit little Fitz."}, {"response": 395, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (17:46)", "body": "Inko - very nice - still coming along very well."}, {"response": 396, "author": "Carolyn", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (17:52)", "body": "I really need to proof read better. The following line in D's letter to Lady C should read Even though this letter must put an end to those hopes which you have longed entertained, I beg you will not harbour any resentment towards myself or Miss Bennet."}, {"response": 397, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (18:50)", "body": "Capital, Inko, capital!"}, {"response": 398, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (19:03)", "body": "Inko's story has been updated on the guild site ."}, {"response": 399, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Dec 29, 2000 (10:32)", "body": "All those ~directories have to be updated, because we don't have ~ directories anymore. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 80, "subject": "Candace really IS a goddess! ; )", "response_count": 59, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (21:07)", "body": "\"we were thinking a big convention in Chicago\" Kali - I'm there!! Just tell me when. :)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (22:09)", "body": "Too bad you can't have it in Austin. I could put everyone up at my house."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (23:28)", "body": "Candace really IS a goddess! ; ) I never doubted it I could put everyone up at my house. Terry would your place stand that much muslin?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (04:07)", "body": "Gee, Terry...you are too generous! ;)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (11:05)", "body": "Goddess?? Oh Pleeeeze, Kali, you are making me blush! ;-) Tea in SF was so much fun! Our Kali is an incredible delight, as enchanting in person as on our BB. We did have a couple of pictures taken of us, so as soon as I get them developed and learn how to post them, I will. Being JA addicts, after tea, we visited our dear Laura Ashley and Kali bought a beautiful black lace (Is HC yelling, No lace, I beg of you!) dress. Hubba Hubba, indeed! At the Fairmont, there is a wonderful, comfortable bar with a big screen TV. Kali and I thought that it would be so great to get all of us in such a room and do the \"Rocky Horror Picture Show\" type of thing with our P&P friends. Could you just see us all in our muslins and speaking word for word with the dialogue and throwing popcorn at the screen whenever Wickham comes on!!!!! Let's work on this, Terry you say we can all stay at your house? Happy thoughts indeed!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (11:33)", "body": "If any of you guys are ever in Los Angeles, let me know. I can offer private studio tours if you like. I'd like to meet some fellow fanatics in person!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (11:53)", "body": "Hmmm.....Wait a minute....Terry you say that we can all stay at your house? Inviting all these women is very suspious. Your not in Waco by any chance?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (12:59)", "body": "Re meeting in Chicago. Or what about piggypacking on the next JA Soceity annual conference as a SIG. Anybody know where it is next week?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (12:59)", "body": "I mean next year."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (13:01)", "body": "Re Terry's house, I think he is making a Castle Anthrax for us. See I have to transfer this Oz witch, Anthrax, Robert Palmer, Muff choir group teasing kinda stuff to somebody else. Who better than our dear Terry?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (14:01)", "body": "I would love to host a Boston Tea Party (if you'll excuse the expression). Anyone interested? Myretta"}, {"response": 12, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (16:56)", "body": "I think we should have a P&P2 Twelve Step Convention at Universal Citywalk in Hollywood. I dearly believe that Miss Austen would have _adored_ all that neon! Not to mention the 50' King Kong!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (23:06)", "body": "I could manage to get to Chicago. It would be so much fun. Let's start planning!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (10:49)", "body": "I'm with you, Ann! It would be fun. Maybe we could have a nonvirtual view of the show."}, {"response": 15, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (11:38)", "body": "Chicago gets my vote. Most of the country can get to O'Hare non-stop. Plus, it is my favorite city. Down-town beaches and an up-town river and public transportation! wow. what a city."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (12:19)", "body": "\"what about piggypacking on the next JA Soceity annual conference as a SIG\" JA Society annual conference schedule: 1997: \"Sanditon: The New Direction?\" Oct. 3-5, San Francisco, Calif. 1998: Quebec 1999: Colorado Springs Anita Gillespie, the 1997 conference coordinator, is working on the program for the San Francisco conference. She can be reached at 601 Van Ness Ave. #11, San Francisco, CA 94102. ----------------------- Chicago would definately be closer for me, but I =do= love SF!!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (15:15)", "body": "Is there a way to do a poll and see what the most G.D.(Geographically Desireable) place would be for us all to meet? I of course vote for L.A. but I don't know how many Californians are out there. . ."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (19:14)", "body": "I can work on a poll. Easy for me."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (20:35)", "body": "Yee haw! Hear that, Candace? Ess Eff!!! We can rent the Fairmont bar after all...what a trip! Bless you for all of your kind words, Candace...you are the best of Lizzy and Jane rolled up into one person! ;) Let's get together again soon!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (04:13)", "body": "Go to Beantown regularly, love it, home of very special friends, just a six hour drive or 45 minutes flight. Chicago never been there but still relatively close. Could seriously planned to meet there, in the spring maybe? How great to hear of the JA Society Convention in Quebec : be sure I'll be there. Amy, what's a SIG? and anything within a 2 hour time zone from Montreal is a very agreeable time/space possibility"}, {"response": 21, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (11:38)", "body": "Well Myretta I live in Boston and a Boston Tea party would be wonder Johanne, we could get you involved no problem. I will try to do the Chicago thing, I've never been so it could be fun. Just finding a sitter for the little one could prove problematic, but other than that. It could be wonderful. Myretta if you could email me at laura_mccarthy@scudder.com I have been trying to email you with no luck. We could get the ball rolling on the Boston end."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (12:27)", "body": "Chicago would work for me. I LOVE S.F., was just there in October, but don't think I could swing it again so soon."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (16:06)", "body": "What U.S. city would be most convenient for non-North Americans?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (23:48)", "body": "Like I say, I've got at least 4,500 sf of living area here at \"Pemberly South\" and I'd be happy to put up the whole group. Austin for Austen!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (01:55)", "body": "That is a HUGE place, Terry! Does everyone in Austin live in such a Texas-sized home?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (02:02)", "body": "No, actually the housing market is really tight in Austin and postage stamp sized places go for high dollar. This house is a result of me getting carried away. It's pretty big for a single guy. I really pretty much live in one room on the third floor and occasionally venture upstairs or downstairs. I haven't been in some rooms for weeks."}, {"response": 27, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (02:07)", "body": "Do you, by any chance, also have a Secret Garden and a houskeeper called Mrs. Medlock? [grin]"}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (02:26)", "body": "I have an overgrown garden and a housekeeper wanted sign."}, {"response": 29, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (07:06)", "body": "Joan, my apartment is more \"postage stamp\" than \"Texas-sized\"..."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (12:59)", "body": "Oh, these are great new tidings indeed! Exciting to get so many addicts together on one spot! Terry, I am amazed at your home size. Have you got furniture in all those rooms? Though this planned gathering would involve more than a weekendtrip for me, i must say that the prospect of seeing your garden adds to the thing. Old and overgrown gardens are the ones I like best. Is it large? Is your house hidden among trees ? Seriously I fear it will be out of reach for me. I think I envy you all coming together. But there is some magic in this net acquaintance thing without faces. But by no means without personalities .I would miss that a little I think."}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (14:15)", "body": "You can see my house at http://www.spring.com/~house If there's something you want to see that isn't shown, I'll be glad and put up a picture for you."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Adi", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (16:31)", "body": "Kali said: What U.S. city would be most convenient for non-North Americans? I can't even consider flying to U.S until september, so my answer to this question would have to be what Ann2 already said: Seriously I fear it will be out of reach for me. I think I envy you all coming together. But there is some magic in this net acquaintance thing without faces. But by no means without personalities.I would miss that a little I think"}, {"response": 33, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (17:16)", "body": "Good Lord, Terry. Are you trying to sell the house? And are you rattling around in it all alone?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (17:18)", "body": "I've taken it off the market. I'm not all alone. I found a schooteacher to rent one of the rooms downstairs, but I rarely see him. I've got the whole third and fourth floors to myself. I'm looking to rent out one of the other downstairs bedrooms."}, {"response": 35, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (19:41)", "body": "You have a nice house Terry! God I wish I had a house like that!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (20:26)", "body": "Well, not that I want to put in a plug, but I think the best port-o-call for non-North Americans is none other than our second largest burg: Los Angeles, CA. After all, no one will feel out of place -- we're a multicultural mecca! And we have Disneyland! Universal Studios! Medieval Times! We're like Orlando, but And it's still in the high 70's. In December."}, {"response": 37, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (21:26)", "body": "\"postage stamp sized places go for high dollar.\" Would it be too nosy to inquire what you were asking for it when it was on the market? I ask because the definition of \"high dollar\" varies so widely, and here high dollar is so high that companies recruiting high-level employees must often sweeten the offer with a housing allowance, or even own residential property in which to house recruits during the period of their employment with the firm because they decline to relocate to this area after finding out that the differences in property values would re uire them to move from a mansion to a tiny tract home, considerably lowering their standard of living."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (22:57)", "body": "If I may make a suggestion you should think of Colonial Williamsburg it is the same setting/century when Jane Auten was alive. It has colonial plantations, museums, and William and Mary College. Orginial an athentic blacksmith,silversmith, furniture makers, apothocary shop, bakery,and pottery works,Carriage rides just like in P&P. I love the place. If you wear muslin you would fit right in."}, {"response": 39, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sun, Dec 29, 1996 (06:17)", "body": "For those of us unable to make any North American get together, the Aussie Austenites plan on having a \"Day in the Park\". You are all welcome on the weekend of 22/23 February 1997 to meet with Hilary (and her brood), Anna, Bells, Lilian and I in Canberra, Australia's Capital, for Jane Austen anecdotes, Pride and Prejudice reminiscences, fine food (including some of Ann2's delicious desserts), wine, fresh air, and friendly banter."}, {"response": 40, "author": "suzle", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (01:15)", "body": "amy2 I also live in L.A. maybe we can have tea sometime. I will be out of town untill Jan. 17. Please email me. efting@earthlink.net. Suz"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (15:24)", "body": "That sounds really nice Ian, but I am afraid I can only join you in my thoughts. To imagine you can actually sit on the ground in February!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "jane", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (17:23)", "body": "Myretta and Laura, I'm nearby too! Work in Cambridge, live in Wellesley. Count me in for any plans. Jane"}, {"response": 43, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (17:44)", "body": "Good enough, Jane. I'll put you on the list and email you."}, {"response": 44, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (22:57)", "body": "Here's a wacky thought from a wacky town: WHAT IF we have our P&P2 reunion, and stage it like an sf or STAR TREK convention (on a small scale, to be sure). We could rent a hotel suite, advertise, invite the public, ask if anyone from A&E or the cast would like to present, alert the media, etc. Can you tell I've worked in advertising?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (09:25)", "body": "Oh Jane, how I've missed you!! Lizzie talking to her sister. Jane welcome to the NE P&P fanatics group. Oh this is going to be soooo much fun. Work in Cambridge and live in Wellesley, well that is just not too shabby. I used to work in Wellesley on Linden Street near Roche Bros supermarket. Love Capt. Mardens, they have the BEST seafood. Oh, Myretta, with Jane, Arnessa, Me and you, and who knows who else this is going to be fun. But be warned, I'm a nut!!!!. Amyloo, can you make it New England. R ar."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (13:52)", "body": "I wish, Roar."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (22:40)", "body": "I found mention of an event that might be of interest if we want to schedule a meeting in Chicago: Book Bonanza On Saturday and Sunday May 31 and June 1, all literary roads lead will lead to the 13th Annual Printers Row Fair, the midwest's largest free literary festival. Here, along a five-block corridor on the city's Near South Side, book lovers can browse through stacks of old, new and rare books offered by 150 unique booksellers and publishers. Well known local and national authors will read from their current works and participate in panel discussions. There will also be poetry readings, storytelling and special programming for kids featured on six indoor and outdoor stages."}, {"response": 48, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (22:54)", "body": "Sounds great. May be worth a trip, even without a tea with friends."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Becks", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (04:06)", "body": "Amy 2, I really like that idea. Sounds very possible? Anyone else like it?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (09:11)", "body": "Oh that sounds awesome. What other way to spend Memorial day Weekend."}, {"response": 51, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "I'd love to do this."}, {"response": 52, "author": "jane", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (11:23)", "body": "Kathleen, do you think Jane Austen will be there? Oh, no, I see it says well known local and national authors, so that rules out our favorite. (excuse me for the sillines of this message, but I am really just using it as an excuse to do my homework for Ann, who I thank very much for the great tutorial.) Jane"}, {"response": 53, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (17:58)", "body": "Jane, I'm afraid the other Jane _won't be_ available for book signings. Does anyone else out there like the idea of mounting a P&P2 \"Convention\" of sorts, and trying to invite members of the cast & crew? I wonder if there are other addicts like ourselves out there who would want to attend."}, {"response": 54, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (18:04)", "body": "There's surely a bunch waiting for this at the Austen-L and the like"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (21:25)", "body": "Go for it, Amy2...I'll do what I can to help you!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (17:48)", "body": "I was wondering if any of the group who live in the Los Angeles area ever get togther? I will be attending a tutorial at the Sheraton Universal which is being held from March 15 to 22 inclusive; I will be staying there from 13 to 23 March. The tutorial is fairly intensive, but I'd love to meet some of you if we can find a date and time that suits. The tute finishes at 12 md on the 22nd which is a saturday; maybe that afternoon or evening? please post any replies here, or email me; aprice@mail.newcastle.edu.au"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (03:28)", "body": "Anna, I'd love to come down and see you, but I don't think I'll be able to get away from school...:("}, {"response": 58, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (16:19)", "body": "] I'll be able to get away from school...:( me neither; generally I travel through San Francisco when visiting the US, maybe next year..."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (23:03)", "body": "Okay! If I'm still in the Bay area! austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 83, "subject": "VCR alert", "response_count": 109, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (15:50)", "body": "Our own Myretta will appear as a contentant on Jeopardy this Wednesday, December 18. Check your local listings."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (16:05)", "body": "Hope they ask a couple of JA questions! Is it already taped? Is it too late to say \"Kick some ass!!\"?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (16:54)", "body": "100 topics! Do we break out the champagne bottle?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (17:55)", "body": "I would not wish to excite your anticipation. But thanks for your thoughts."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (17:58)", "body": "By the way, I saw an add for Emma on A&E: set your VCRs for February 16!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:07)", "body": "That does seem so far away Ann. Thanks for the info."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:10)", "body": "Well, Nostromo is on next month to tide us over."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:11)", "body": "I have to get through Cristmas first. The kids are \"very excited\" at this point."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:13)", "body": "True Ann, true. I think my husband bought the audio cassettes for me for Christmas."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:30)", "body": "Re: 100:3 Celebrate the 100th topic Terry, the tradition in this group is to break out a good bottle of port......or even better.... starboard. :-) Cheers, Grace"}, {"response": 11, "author": "panache", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (11:36)", "body": "Sun., 12/15/96, on A&E at 10 AM (PST?) Firth in HOSTAGES TAPE IT!!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (19:35)", "body": "You go, Grace! ;)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (20:49)", "body": "Re Firth in Hostages - I saw it this aftn. He looked much younger and thinner to me. I do realize this is blasphemy - but - he also looked quite bland. Nothing like a good role and name being Darcy! His mouth didn't look the same. Noticed this comment by someone earlier - what's the difference in it?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (21:48)", "body": "] His mouth didn't look the same. Noticed this comment by someone earlier - what's the difference in it? ___ Good acting, I think. In Hostages he was lower middle class, which he interpreted as being dull and slackjawed. Prosperous and to-the-manor-born types hold their facial muscles in a firmer more confident way."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Pandora620", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (00:16)", "body": "Re Firth in Hostages Amy, I'm sure you are right - as speech, posture, bearing and all body language would change. When you are referred to as one of most illustrious men in England you are not bland in any way."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Kim", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (10:43)", "body": "I watched Hostages yesterday. I started watching it only to see Colin Firth, but I actually enjoyed the movie. Colin Firth certainly looked different from Darcy, but he still had that wonderful voice."}, {"response": 17, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (21:39)", "body": "Did you notice Captain Wentworth (Ciaran Hinds, that is)? He was also good. I like the beard."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:08)", "body": "I thought Hostages was a good movie too. CF is different from Darcy, but then he's not called a chameleon for nothing. In Hostages he plays the \"joker\" in contrast to Ciaran Hinds \"rebel\". I thought they were both very good in their respective roles, as were the rest of the cast. What amazed me was the fact that so many of the cast members looked like the hostages they were representing, especially Terry Anderson and Terry Waite. BTW, I was in England when John McCarthy arrived home, and remember the scene on TV where the plane taxied to a stop. CF is taller but otherwise remarkably like McCarthy."}, {"response": 19, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (11:39)", "body": "I find all this talk about how Firth did NOT look like Darcy. Well he was playing a HOSTAGE. Ciaran Hinds, I didn't even recognize him at first. I thought it was a wonderful movie. Very spiritual. I'm glad they all made it out alive, it was touch and go there for awhile."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (11:48)", "body": "Ciaron Hinds didn't look like Capt.Wentworth either. It was the perfect role bor both men. I agree Laura."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (23:40)", "body": "With one exception, Firth NEVER looks like Darcy."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (13:59)", "body": "''With one exception, Firth NEVER looks like Darcy.'' Indeed, Elaine, I see such varying accounts of him as to puzzle me exceedingly. Even within our one preferred production he doesn't always look like the same Darcy."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (14:45)", "body": "The Eyes! The Eyes gives Firth away to \"look\" like Mr.Darcy."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (19:15)", "body": "Myretta, congratulations on being the only contestant to answer the final question correctly. If that vile Melissa had not been such a wimpy wagerer, you'd be the champ. Now, about that cruise you won..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (19:43)", "body": "My husband got off the phone to watch Myretta and kids thought it was \"cool\"."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (20:58)", "body": "Congratulations Myretta. I taped Jeopardy tonight and just finished watching it. Tell me, is it really hard to ring in first - I always think that must be the hardest part of playing the game. Have fun on the cruise - I hope you get to go when there are piles of snow in Mass. so you can be warm while all your neighbours are busy shovelling!:)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (21:13)", "body": "Jeopardy has just started here - and no Myretta! The only lady is a Melissa. What a bummer!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (22:01)", "body": "Thank you all for watching. I was really ambivalent about this (especially after I had done it). Joan if Melissa is the only woman, I'll probably be on tomorrow for you. I don't know how many games Melissa won, but I know she won the one right before mine. Here's my confession, Amy. I've been referring to Melissa (whose name I apparently blocked because it's the same as my beloved sister) as weasel woman ever since October. Am I a sore loser? Never! But she was very focused and did not socialize with the rest of the contestants who basically thought it was a kick just to be there. I know I did. I found ringing in first the hardest thing about this (that and drawing a blank on Peter Arnett. I could see his face, but couldn't bring up his name). There is a very small window of opportunity in which to ring in. Lights light up on either side of the board when you can ring. If you ring too soon, you get locked out for 1/2 second (which turns out to be an interminable period in this forum) and if you ring in to late. . .well. I actually knew a lot of stuff I didn't get to answer. What surprised e about seeing it after two months was that I'd answered questions I don't remember answering. I didn't know I knew that Simon Bolivar had been in Haiti. One of the really fun things about tonight was knowing that I could introduce myself to all of you. It has been one of my daily pleasures to meet with you here and I surprised myself with being able to form friendships on the internet. I love having this group of friends and it was nice to let you know a little bit more about me this way."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (22:06)", "body": "] knowing that I could introduce myself to all of you. __ I like that part, too."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (22:23)", "body": "]knowing that I could introduce myself to all of you. Myretta, it's nice to be able to put a face on at least one of our company. Thanks for introducing yourself."}, {"response": 31, "author": "glinda", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (22:28)", "body": "Congratulations Myretta! It was so much fun watching you and hearing about your cats. One could tell Melissa was a weasel woman. Enjoy your cruise!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (00:18)", "body": "Well, I shall look forward to the pleasure a day late (and a dollar short?). This evening the weasel woman revealed to the world that she aced the SATs at age 10 - doesn't sound like the type who has ever been allowed to kick back and just enjoy being anywhere."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (17:09)", "body": "''Good acting, I think. In Hostages he was lower middle class, which he interpreted as being dull and slackjawed. Prosperous and to-the-manor-born types hold their facial muscles in a firmer more confident way.'' Amy, this comment makes me think especially of the part of Mr. B's Maggott when Lizzy asks if he is careful in not allowing his prejudices to interfere with his forming of his good opinion (badly paraphrased, I know), and he says, ''I am'', and closes his jaw so firmly. He looks as if he wants to bite her (or his own tongue for asking about walking into Meryton in the first place)."}, {"response": 34, "author": "kendall", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (22:06)", "body": "Myretta, I remembered to watch - I missed the cat chat - but I caught double J and final J. Great finish. Weasel woman had an itchy trigger finger. Hope the cruise is great."}, {"response": 35, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (22:46)", "body": "Yes - the"}, {"response": 36, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (22:48)", "body": "I don't believe this. The one time I break my rule and type in this stupid box, it eats all of what turned out to be fairly lengthy text! WEll, you are all probably better off for it. Myretta, it was a pleasure to meet you. :-)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (23:03)", "body": "I think the system went down briefly while you were typing. It's back up now."}, {"response": 38, "author": "LauraM", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (13:15)", "body": "Myretta, I unfortunately did not get to watch, but I applaud anyone who can go on jeopardy. Some of those questions are real killers. I hardly ever get anything right. And Colin Firth is very much a chameleon when it comes to his acting. If anyone has seen A month in the Country you would understand what I mean."}, {"response": 39, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (22:04)", "body": "Oh dear - this is no notice at all - A&E is broadcasting it even as I type (but will do it again at 11 PM PST) - they are doing \"Kiri's Coventry Carols - in Coventry Cathedral - a building of great beauty and with wonderful accoustics, and Kiri Te Kanawa is the featured soloist, but also performing are the BBC orchestra, the cathedral men's and boys' choirs, and a bunch of other fine musicians."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (14:21)", "body": "Wuthering Heights 1992 version with Ralph Fiennes and Juliette Binoche 8:00 est reaired at 12:30 on \"TNT\" at 10:00 on \"TNT\" Wild Sargasso Sea reaired at 3:00est"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (14:43)", "body": ".....on the same day Thursday December 26, 1996 Wuthering Heights is at 8:00 Wild or Wide {it is listed as Wide}Sargasso Sea\" is at 10:00."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (15:50)", "body": "Thanks for the WH alert, Donna. I have not seen the Fiennes version, so that will be a real treat for me tonight. TBS and TNT have been showing all their great library of Bible epics. Wouldn't Patrick Stewart be great in one of those roles?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (16:56)", "body": "Amy, WH and WSS are going to be on December 26. I wish they were tonight. Hmmmmm that is not such a bad idea Amy, Patrick Stewart yes are you sure your not a casting director. I do like him and think well of him."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (16:59)", "body": "If you like Patrick Stewart as a Bible hero, Donna, how about this? Kris Kristofferson in Clint Eastwood's role in Bridges of Madison County. I pictured him all the way through reading it."}, {"response": 45, "author": "panache", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (09:50)", "body": "Don't forget to have a couple of blank videocassettes and your VCR ready to tape Colin on NOSTROMO starting Jan. 5 on PBS in U.S. In California, S.F. area, it's on Ch. 9 KQED three consecutive nites on Mobil Masterpiece Theatre at 9 p.m. (another 6 hrs. of CF...yeah!)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "Lucky you, will wait until January 14, 21 and 28 to see it on WCFE Northern New York-Mountain Lake"}, {"response": 47, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (19:16)", "body": "For those who missed it, A&E is now (as I type) showing their Bill Gates biography - and will again at 9 PM PST"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (00:42)", "body": "\"With one exception, Firth NEVER looks like Darcy.\" Very true, Elaine...this is something we must strive to remember whilst sniffing out anything with CF in it...;)"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (14:15)", "body": "Through great persistence and little help from my local video store, I have managed to find several Firth films (try saying that in rapid succession). However, I am always apprehensive about watching anything from the \"Firth Collection\". They're so annoyingly eclectic that one never knows what will be bounding about on the screen. Can anyone generalize the type of movie in which Firth usually appears? Is there any drooling value in any of these films?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (14:16)", "body": "Through great persistence and little help from my local video store, I have managed to find several Firth films (try saying that in rapid succession). However, I am always apprehensive about watching anything from the \"Firth Collection\". They're so annoyingly eclectic that one never knows what will be bounding about on the screen. Can anyone generalize the type of movie in which Firth usually appears? Is there any drooling value in any of these films?"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (14:16)", "body": "Through great persistence and little help from my local video store, I have managed to find several Firth films (try saying that in rapid succession). However, I am always apprehensive about watching anything from the \"Firth Collection\". They're so annoyingly eclectic that one never knows what will be bounding about on the screen. Can anyone generalize the type of movie in which Firth usually appears? Is there any drooling value in any of these films?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (14:17)", "body": "Through great persistence and little help from my local video store, I have managed to find several Firth films (try saying that in rapid succession). However, I am always apprehensive about watching anything from the \"Firth Collection\". They're so annoyingly eclectic that one never knows what will be bounding about on the screen. Can anyone generalize the type of movie in which Firth usually appears? Is there any drooling value in any of these films?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (14:18)", "body": "Through great persistence and little help from my local video store, I have managed to find several Firth films (try saying that in rapid succession). However, I am always apprehensive about watching anything from the \"Firth Collection\". They're so annoyingly eclectic that one never knows what will be bounding about on the screen. Can anyone generalize the type of movie in which Firth usually appears? Is there any drooling value in any of these films?"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (14:18)", "body": "Through great persistence and little help from my local video store, I have managed to find several Firth films (try saying that in rapid succession). However, I am always apprehensive about watching anything from the \"Firth Collection\". They're so annoyingly eclectic that one never knows what will be bounding about on the screen. Can anyone generalize the type of movie in which Firth usually appears? Is there any drooling value in any of these films?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "A record, Elaine."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (17:16)", "body": "My, my Elaine...you must really want to know if these movies have any drooling facotrs to them!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "Valmont is good for drooling. Month in the Country is a good film. Others are of lesser value."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (17:54)", "body": "Elaine, six echoes deserve an answer!!;-) Actually, drooling factor depends on what makes you drool!! Is it acting, physical looks, facial looks, eyes, or actual nudity? Of the films I've seen, these are my drooling and acting factors, plus brief plot lines: Another Country drool 2, acting 7; the imaginary schooling of Burgess and Maclean (British spies who defected to USSR), takes place in a boys' public (private in U.S.) school; Firth plays a confirmed communist - very young and very cute! A Month in the Country drool 4(eyes), acting 10; about two traumatizedWWI veterans and their recovery during that month. Also stars Kenneth Branagh and Natasha Richardson. Apartment Zero drool 4(eyes only), acting 7; A strange film about Argentina, filmed entirely in Buenos Aires, about people disappearing. Firth 's role is severely psychologically hampered - one of his fortes. Valmont drool 8, acting 8; a fun version of Dangerous Liasons. See Firth when he was considered \"beautiful\"! Wings of Fame drool 7(sex), acting 5; Good idea somehow lost by a silly ending. Also stars Peter O'Toole being, essentially, Peter O'Toole. Not very good film IMHO. Femme Fatale drool 6(sex), acting 4; No credible plot and not very credible acting. Hostages drool 8,(nudity, eyes) acting 9; about the hostages in Lebanon in 80's to early 90's. Good docudrama. Costars Ciaran Hinds. The Advocate drool 9(sex, nudity, eyes), acting 8; about medieaval law and lawyers in France. Circle of Friends drool 6(sex, nudity), acting 6; don't rent this for Firth's role - it's small and unsympathetic - but the rest of story and cast is good. P&P2 drool 10, acting 10. Included this just to give you some guidelines to my ratings! There are only my opinions, but I hope they help!!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (07:54)", "body": "]one never knows what will be bounding about on the screen. LOL! Especially since all your posts had a way of bounding across my screen, too. ]Can anyone generalize the type of movie in which Firth usually appears? Other than him being in them and them being eclectic, I'd say he represents always an outsider or a man on the verge, so to speak, due to his being wealthy or wounded inside or freethinking or arrogant or loner, etc. I'd say a bit eccentric in some way. What's really eerie is I find these films seem to parallel him/his then-current life in a kind of subconscious pattern. ]Is there any drooling value in any of these films? Just a photo like the A&E magazine cover can get to some of us! His charisma is such an odd blend of the thinking man and the physically attractive; not often you have both traits so strongly intermingled in one man, but that (along with the teasing factor of the man and woman inaccessible to each other awhile or for entire film)is why A Month in the Country can make for drooling like P&P2 can."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (07:57)", "body": "Yes, France. It is about longing, isn't it?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (10:02)", "body": "I am so excessively embarrassed! I thought my machine was frozen as is frequently the case, received the customary error message, and was attempting to log off. I can't believe I posted 6 times. On the other hand, I know it hit my mouse more than 6 times so I'm thankful there are only 6! Can I erase any of this? Also, many thanks to Inko and her analytical abilities. My reactions to characters are much more black and white. If I find a character repulsive, it's difficult to notice his fine eyes. O course, the halo effect works going the other direction.....Where does one find all these films?"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Elaine, I found all these movies at Blockbusters or Hollywood Video and rented them. That is, all except Hostages, which I taped off the History Channel - never found that to rent. I found I had to look around at various Blockbusters - some of them had one or two while another had different ones."}, {"response": 63, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (20:21)", "body": "Elaine, The Advocate is on Cinemax tonight (1/15) at 11:00"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (09:57)", "body": "Inko, I am still attempting to digest your list. To my surprise, I have seen 5 of the 8 films. Circle of Friends was the 1st movie and the most shocking. I had seen this movie before I had ever heard of CF and couldn't imagine which part he played. I rented the video and on the way home it occurred to me, although I dearly hoped that I was wrong, that he might be Simon. I absolutely didn't want to see him in that role but all hope was in vain. From the sound system I recognized his voice coming from the body of an over-weight, red head. In disbelief I concurrently ran my P&P tape and paused both tapes to find some similarity of features. I was all astonishment and found that running P&P several times could barely remove the memory. Next, my video man suggested The Advocate from the soft porn section of the store. I had to sneak it into the house and furtively play it while the children were at school, unaware! Visions of the luckless Paul Rubins, police raids. .. The Advocate w s followed by Valmont , the 18th century lounge lizard. It was a conspiracy of bad films/characters and lackluster acting. Now, does CF has a fabulous sense of humor or what?"}, {"response": 65, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (09:57)", "body": "Inko, I am still attempting to digest your list. To my surprise, I have seen 5 of the 8 films. Circle of Friends was the 1st movie and the most shocking. I had seen this movie before I had ever heard of CF and couldn't imagine which part he played. I rented the video and on the way home it occurred to me, although I dearly hoped that I was wrong, that he might be Simon. I absolutely didn't want to see him in that role but all hope was in vain. From the sound system I recognized his voice coming from the body of an over-weight, red head. In disbelief I concurrently ran my P&P tape and paused both tapes to find some similarity of features. I was all astonishment and found that running P&P several times could barely remove the memory. Next, my video man suggested The Advocate from the soft porn section of the store. I had to sneak it into the house and furtively play it while the children were at school, unaware! Visions of the luckless Paul Rubins, police raids. .. The Advocate w s followed by Valmont , the 18th century lounge lizard. It was a conspiracy of bad films/characters and lackluster acting. Now, does CF has a fabulous sense of humor or what?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (11:45)", "body": "I can't believe it...I can't post under this topic, too excited I guess. I simply wanted to know (once would be sufficient) who else got a speeding ticket on their way home the first time they rented The Advocate ? And did your children arrive unaccountably early to school on the morning you decided to view it? Such grand expectations."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (12:25)", "body": "Has anyone a copy, or an idea of where to rent a copy, of ''Dutch Girls''? I would so like to see Colin snogging as a youth ;-) The cinematic discussion on the FoF page has whetted my appetite. It appears that there is a disco ''Darcy-cam'' scene in the movie, also. Happy thought, indeed."}, {"response": 68, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (18:53)", "body": "Mari -- I just received a copy of Dutch Girls (ordered from Videoflicks on the internet, but I forgot their address). I plan to watch it this weekend, so I can let you know my opinion then."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (16:44)", "body": "Kathleen, please do; I will look into this topic for your response. Happy Birthday, although at one and forty I do not know how you came to call yourself ''elder'' ;)"}, {"response": 70, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (20:16)", "body": "Mari -- thanks for the greetings. As for \"calling\" myself elder, I must blame my ancestors. Elder is quite simply my surname, so I have been \"elder\"ly all my life! I'll talk to you again after I watch Mr Firth in Dutch Girls."}, {"response": 71, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (16:08)", "body": "I watched \"Dutch Girls\" this weekend. Not much of a movie (sort of a coming of age film -- about a group of English boys from school on a sports tour in Holland). Using Inko's rules (my interpretation, of course) from response #58, I'd give this film a 3 for drooling (eyes only) and a 6 for acting. Sue Bertwistle worked w/ Colin Firth on this movie, and I believe that's part of the reason she wanted him as Darcy. Certainly there are some fine scenes where we see in his eyes how he's trying to work through his feelings. Mari -- I'm afraid that the \"Darcy-cam\" bit is very small. And no scenes w/ Colin snogging. Our dear Wickham (Adrian Lukis) had a small part, and he did look very cute. Respectfully submitted kathleen (part-time movie reporter and full-time P&P2 fan)"}, {"response": 72, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "On the VCR alert: Absolutely Fabulous, the Last Shout premieres tonight on the comedy channel. (Repeats will probably be frequent.) Julia Sawalha is one of the stars."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (17:50)", "body": "Kathleen, AbFab has been repeating earlier shows all day and I've had them on most of the time (though not watching too closely). Julia Sawalha certainly looks very different to Lydia but her voice is the same. I liked what I saw of the shows."}, {"response": 74, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (19:10)", "body": "You hated Valmont?? I just watched it and loved it. I hated Dangerous Liasons - heavy, mean, decadent. I loved this one - lighter - even sweeter - sort of. I liked the emphasis on the rising stars in the ashes of Valmont and the annette Benning character and the old great aunt so delighted to learn that a new little Valmont baby was on the way. I thought - more tolerable characters than the other film, less sex and more seduction, less destruction. I liked this movie a lot!! And CF spent ample time wet."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (20:51)", "body": "Katy, I agree I much preferred Valmont to Dangerous Liaisons. I found the latter cruel. The young girl's seduction was practically rape in that one. I too thought Valmont much sweeter and a lot more fun. Only the ending duel didn't make as much sense. I really loved the old aunt - what a great character actress she was! I believe she died shortly after the film was made."}, {"response": 76, "author": "jane", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (21:00)", "body": "Dangerous Liaisons also had the John Malkovich creepiness factor. Yeecch. I liked DL, but I agree that Valmont was sweeter, and it was more understandable that CF's scamp would easily charm the ladies."}, {"response": 77, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (21:25)", "body": "The biggest problem for me with Dangerous Liasons is the fact that the Malcovich character is such a slimeball that I can not belive any woman would fall for him, and certainly not Michele Pfeiffer! It just was not believable to me that he would have had enough success with women to be such a renowned rake."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (22:41)", "body": "\"The English Patient\" just won the Golden Globe for best drama picture!!"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (18:29)", "body": "I was just flipping channels and heard a familiar voice. Though I haven't seen the credits, it sounds to me like Colin Firth does the narration for the show \"Bintley's Mozart\" on Bravo. It is showing right now (6:00pm CST) and will rerun at 12:00 midnight Central time tonight. From what I have heard so far there is not much narration to the piece. It is all about a ballet choreographer working a piece of music."}, {"response": 80, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (10:27)", "body": "I didn't feel that Valmont was a very engaging movie. The Count in Valmont was too weak, too cutsie, often stereotypic; but Benning and the Aunt were quite refreshing. In contrast, Apartment Zero and The Hostages were almost riveting. In these two films I was not aware of CF's participation but carried away by either storyline or subject matter."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (22:04)", "body": "Turn on A&E now,\"Making of Emma\" is on right as I write."}, {"response": 82, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (22:18)", "body": "Must have been the 5-minute promo, Donna?"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (09:42)", "body": "A&E PRIDE and PREJUDICE Part One - Feb 8 9pm/1am pst Part Two - Feb 9 8pm/12am pst A&E \"Rebel Without a Cause\" Feb. 7 4:00am pst A&E EMMA Feb 16 Sun. 8pm/12am pst"}, {"response": 84, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (10:19)", "body": "I'll finally be able to retape episode 6, tape went wrong (lines and snow and incomprehensible sounds) at the second proposal : and I'm not kidding! Who's talking February blues"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (12:01)", "body": "Johanne; me too, only it is the Netherfield ballroom scene; oh joy, oh bliss! :-9"}, {"response": 86, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "Do you thing, by chance, they will rerun \"Making of..\"? I never saw it at all."}, {"response": 87, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (16:32)", "body": "If they do rerun\"Making of\" it will be on before/after,ya never no????"}, {"response": 88, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (21:16)", "body": "Do you thing, by chance, they will rerun \"Making of. Thay can not re-run it - they have"}, {"response": 89, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (21:18)", "body": "GRRRRRRRR!!!!! They can not re-run it. They have never run it in the first place. If they do runi it, it will be a North American premier!"}, {"response": 90, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (21:29)", "body": "Bummer."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "Never try to deny that there are precious moments for a Darcy friend in Valmont. Eyes are right, and he is wet as was pointed out and the dance scene is sheer joy and...you can't help feeling sorry for him when he begins to understand that he has ruined his life and other's. Some very sad and solemn expressions on his face. But, I came here to tell you that The Swedish TV is showing Dennis Potter's last but one(?) story, 'Karaoke'. Leading role the author(Potter) played by our friend from Nostromo (and oh so many other...)Albert Finney.He is so good. And in one other rather big role a film producer is played by another dear friend, Anna Chancellor. I feel almost a tenderness towards her, black hair and lovely eyes. She tries to manage this very difficult author chap.(She gets to say shit and other modern things, it is an odd sensation.)I've seen one part so far. Think it is four. Has it been on in US or -more likely perhaps- UK?"}, {"response": 92, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (19:00)", "body": "\"The Malcovich character is such a slimeball that I can't believe anyone would fall for him.\" #77 Ann, Ann, Ann -- did we watch the same movie? Believe me, I really liked Valmont, and I am a diehard CF fan, but DL was pure genius. Many of you have mentioned that you only like CF as Darcy, with which I don't agree, but it's a way to make my point. I don't find Malcovich attractive and have not found him so in any other movie, but his sexual magnetism in DL was simply impossible for me to ignore. He had the charisma, that \"something\" which I've seen in other unattractive men throughout my ilfe who never want for female companionship. Am I alone in this, ladies?"}, {"response": 93, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "He had the charisma, that \"something\" which I've seen in other unattractive men throughout my ilfe who never want for female companionship. __ Afraid not. But Malk has something I like that I don't like liking."}, {"response": 94, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "He had the charisma, that \"something\" which I've seen in other unattractive men throughout my ilfe who never want for female companionship. Am I alone in this, ladies? __ I didn't do that right. I meant to reply \"Afraid not\" to Susan's \"Am I alone in this?\""}, {"response": 95, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (11:06)", "body": "Afraid not. But Malk has something I like that I don't like liking.// Agreed. It is some kind of possible evil thing; and yet fascinating.Usch!"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (15:53)", "body": "Amy: But Malk has something I like that I don't like liking. yes...he is compelling and repelling simultaneously. Very dangerous."}, {"response": 97, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (09:50)", "body": "Changing the subject back to the original topic if that's OK. Just want to know if anybody has info on when Master of the Moor is supposed to be on in the US?"}, {"response": 98, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "Susan: Changing the subject back to the original topic if that's OK. Nobody likes a smart-aleck, Susan! ;-)"}, {"response": 99, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (00:22)", "body": "I asked if it was OK!"}, {"response": 100, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (00:32)", "body": "Susan, Master of the Moor was shown in the Bay Area as a special for a PBS affiliate fundraiser. I don't know if other stations will follow suit or not. I guess it might depend on whether our sweetheart brought in the bucks. Have you heard, Joan?"}, {"response": 101, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (22:28)", "body": "I have heard nothing since KTEH showed it and (owing to my VCR having mysteriously become set to SP) my tape ran out, missing the last hour! I still want to know how it ended!"}, {"response": 102, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 1997 (01:48)", "body": "Bummer!"}, {"response": 103, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (14:29)", "body": "Today, BRAVO! is presenting a double bill of Wuthering Heights : - the Timothy Dalton version at 9 p.m. - the Laurence Olivier version in repeat from the afternoon at 00:30 am (Feb 7) this from Quebec, don't know the extent of their broadcasting (regional, national or international)"}, {"response": 104, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "ARRRGH. I miss having Bravo."}, {"response": 105, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:49)", "body": "ARRRGH. I miss having Bravo. Would you like me to tape something for you, Amy?"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:04)", "body": "Myretta, you are sweet to offer. I can always rent the films, but I do miss the Actors' Studio interviews at the New School. Is that series still on?"}, {"response": 107, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:05)", "body": "Are you working late, Myretta? Odd time for you to be on."}, {"response": 108, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:07)", "body": "We get Bravo, but the listing in my TV guide is quite different today and tomorrow. Maybe it's a different Bravo in Canada??"}, {"response": 109, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:19)", "body": "Yes the actor's studio interviews are still on Bravo and I'm still at the office. Care to meet for a chat? austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 84, "subject": "Jane Austen's Fave Music", "response_count": 22, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (16:56)", "body": "Thanks, Rebecca - this reminds me that just before the Bluemarble BB crash someone had reported attending a concert given by a performer who dressed as JA and played pieces that Jane would have played/heard - and that this person had a CD - does anyone remember the specifics of this?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:25)", "body": "Joan, was that message about the CD from Dina? I remember reading it, but never got in touch with her. Thanks for all of the above info, Rebecca."}, {"response": 3, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:35)", "body": "I don't remember who - maybe Dina - but whoever it was only offered to supply details if there was interest, and did not get a chance to respond with the"}, {"response": 4, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:36)", "body": "GRRRRRRRR!!!!! with the specifics."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (20:05)", "body": "Here is Dina's post: Austen piano music on CD [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ P&P2BB ] [ FAQ ] [ Links ] Offered by Dina on November 18, 1996 at 16:56:23: Last night I attended a piano concert at a local college. It was performed by a Dr. Karlyn Bond, PHd in music (she looked 18!!!). She dressed in Regency clothing and played music not only from Austen's time but from her actual collection, some of which is out of print (obscure London composers). It was nice not only listening to her play, but to describe who and where she thought the pieces would be played; by characters in Austen novels or Austen herself. She has a CD out which I believe I will get. It h s a 16 page booklet that descibes the things she discussed at the concert. I wish I could remember more names of pieces or composers to tell you but alas, I am classically/musically challenged. I tell you of this not to promote the purchase (nor do I think this is really the place for it..) but if anyone is dying for something like this I can post an address where to get the CD. It is $15 plus $1 for postage."}, {"response": 6, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (01:22)", "body": "Thanks, Amy! Dinaaaaa... are you here? Well, safest to send her mail... ;-)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Saman", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (02:42)", "body": "Speaking of Jane Austen, I saw a book in a bookshop (funnily enough) here called \"Jane Austen's World\". It's a big hardback book with the still of Lizzy and Darcy in Netherfield Ball costumes. Has anyone seen/read/bought it, and is it any good? The price was a bit too steep for me to consider buying it immediately - it has gone on my list of things to buy after Christmas with money I'm given then (talk about counting my chickens!)."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (17:44)", "body": "More info please!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Saman", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (02:23)", "body": "I knew someone would ask that - I'll see if I can head down there in the next few days and check out ISBN etc. Don't hold your breath though - the Christmas shopping pandemonium is successful in keeping me away from high population-density areas e.g. shopping malls!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Dina", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (13:51)", "body": "Yes, I am here. I talked with Karlyn Bond (the pianist) last night at a Jane Austen Dinner (December 16th, her B-day) and she is selling her CD by mail. It includes pieces from Haydn, Mozart, Cramer, Clementi, Field, Beethoven and Schobert. I am listening right now, it's totally awesome. She said if you would like to e-mail her direct she would be happy to send you the information. It's $15 plus $1 shipping etc. Her e-mail is k-bond@wcslc.edu. Hope you all enjoy it. Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. Good think Joan contacted me.... Dina"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (14:32)", "body": "Dina, she ought to distribute it through the Austen book stores in SF and Chicago. Thanks for the info."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Saman", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (18:31)", "body": "OK -about this book \"Jane Austen's World\". I rang the bookshop today and they are snowed under with the Christmas rush (no pun intended, it's summer here). Still the rather grumpy gentleman on the other end of the phone told me that it's by Maggie Lane and is published by The Book Company (then again he might have been being facetious and that publishing firm might not even exist). His good humour ran out completely when I enquired after an ISBN so I'll have to head down there myself one of these days to get it. By the way, it is retailing here for NZ$27.95, which means it should be about US$50. I tried searching for it on the web by author, but although Ms Lane has written material about Jane Austen this particular book wasn't mentioned."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (19:03)", "body": "NZ$27.95, which means it should be about US$50. Saman did you perhaps mean U$ 20 ?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Saman", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (02:31)", "body": "Yeah of course I meant $20 - my brain has never been able to get around exchange rates. I wish they had never floated the NZ dollar - life could have been so much simpler with a fixed exchange rate!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (07:45)", "body": "Jane Austen's England by Maggie Lane, Published in December of '95 is available by special order through http://www.amazon.com . No, I'm not their sales rep, but I use them a lot when I'm looking for a book in a hurry. There was no \"Jane Austen's World\". Could this be the same thing?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (11:48)", "body": "For those of you trying to meet a Christmas rush... Karlyn Bond 2441 Evening Star Drive Salt Lake City, UT 84124 $15 plus $1"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Saman", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (17:40)", "body": "It probably is Jane Austen's England - there were so many people crowding in to the bookshop that I didn't get a good look at it. Seeing as the author you mention is the same one it's highly probable and we must put the confusion down to my poor tired hurting head ;). Sorry for the mixup..."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (15:53)", "body": "I'm not sure about these ?2/?1 titles but Maggie Lane has written several books about Jane Austen"}, {"response": 19, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (20:50)", "body": "Re: Jane Austen's England - my decidedly not-grumpy and almost excessively helpful bookstore gentleman told me that there are actually 2 books by the above title, one of which is out of print, and the other - the Maggie Lane one - is published in England. Its ISBN # = 0709037090. (they had had it in stock, but it was gone)."}, {"response": 20, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (20:52)", "body": ""}, {"response": 21, "author": "Saman", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (02:46)", "body": "Yay - thank you Joan, too - I feel so much better now :). I think I'll head down there in the post-Christmas slump when they'll be exceedingly obliged for my custom ;-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (13:44)", "body": "\"Its ISBN # = 0709037090. (they had had it in stock, but it was gone).\" I just checked Bookserve ( http://www.bookserve.com ) and they have it for $14.95. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 86, "subject": "Dance music site", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (15:56)", "body": "Thanks Henry. Anybody know anything about ABC format?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "geekman", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (16:27)", "body": "Amy: Visit the abc site at http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/ where all is explained. Suffice to say it has something to do with the names of the notes such as cdefgabc!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (00:33)", "body": "Henry! Nothing you say shall ever vex me again! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you for posting this link! And what a coincidence that only today I have discovered a treasure for Mac users - a sound application that will play just about any sound file that is - and will do so without requiring any extra hardware, and can be used on just about any Mac. Even if your browser will not support Live Audio, you can DL the sound file and hear, see, and modify it with this - it's a fairly long DL, but worth it. Play the \"bach\" file included in the archive and prepare to be blown away! PlayerPRO is a complete music editor software (SoundTracker). You can use it with any Macs without any specific hardware. PlayerPRO can load and play following formats: MOD, S3M, Midi, MTM, MADx, OKTA, System 7 sound, MINS, WAV, XI, AIFF, AIFC, MED, 669 and XM. - Any Mac from 68020 to PowerMac (FAT version) - Requires NO special hardware (all other musics softwares require MIDI Hardware) - Play up to 32 simultaneous channels WITHOUT special hardware. - Sound quality from 11Khz 8bits to 44Khz 16bits. - Support all Mac sound chips (ASC, AWAC, AWAC2, DSP) - A special ASC driver for 68k Macintosh available Where to find the last version of Player PRO & more infos? On internet: \ufffd http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/cgi-bin/NewSearch?key=PlayerPRO \ufffd ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/w/wormey/PlayerPro \ufffd http://search.shareware.com/code/engine/Find?search=PlayerPRO&category=Macintosh \ufffd http://www.iwe.com/quadmation \ufffd http://www.eskimo.com/~wormey/PlayerPROUS.html \ufffd http://www.csis.gvsu.edu/~behrensm/absm-faq/index.html Be sure to read the ReadME which also gives URLS to many excellent sites for additional info and sound files to DL."}, {"response": 4, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (00:35)", "body": "From the author of PlayerPRO: Note for PC/IBM users: There is no PlayerPRO version for PC/IBM system. Please stop asking me to do it! Thanx! But I'm actually working on the translation of my driver, (ONLY the driver)."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (10:42)", "body": "What's a good player to download for Win' 95, Joan?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (16:52)", "body": "Sorry, R., but I have no idea - I don't speak Windoze. Maybe someone of the PC persuasion will have a suggestion?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (18:05)", "body": "Anybody know if the '96 P&P dance tunes are available anywhere on CD? E-mail me at lasalle@mail.idt.net if you do austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 87, "subject": "Guilty Pleasures: Romance in P&P", "response_count": 184, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (11:41)", "body": "Well, since I started this, I'll begin: I have to say my favorite romantic moment is that first horrific proposal! I don't know why -- maybe it's because there's enough sexual tension in that room to defeat Napoleon's Army. And the acting is just so darned incredible! We've all dwelt on how great Firth was here, but what about Jennifer? It seems to me she conveys more with her expressions and tone of voicethan volumns can speak. Also think that Austen was particularly \"on\" in the amazing quality of this dialogue."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (13:31)", "body": "Is this where us 2:s can gather?... Now to the point... This most certainly is a vibrating scene. And as pointed out to us by Colin himself very romantic, as Darcy wants to explain in this akward manner that he is no fool, that he knows what is proper, that he has considered every evil consequence of his action and still it can't be helped. Oooh his glances from the moment he enters the room. The way he moves around like a tiger in a cage... and when he tries to collect the pieces of his heart after the terrible disappointment. in a voice of forced calmness, he said- \"And is this all the reply which I am to have the honour of expecting!... His face all perplexion and pain... And you are ever so rigth about Jennifer's acting. Convincing and full of variation. Astonished, curious even at first and then as her anger builds up to the different outbursts of reproach. Really great."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (15:45)", "body": "I love the scene at the Lambton Inn after the news of Lydia's elopement. Darcy is so gentle and caring and helpless before he knows what the matter is. In P&P2, his leave-taking is a little cold, but the dialogue that JA gives him softens that a great deal."}, {"response": 4, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (15:46)", "body": "Thanks Ann, we 2's must stick together! Another thing I noticed -- Jennifer looks very different in this scene than she does in the rest of the film. I don't know if it's the way they lit her, but her face seems softer. Am I dreaming this?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (15:47)", "body": "And Linda, speaking of touching (I remember seeing some posts about the lack of it) -- doesn't Darcy touch Lizzy a number of times in this scene. He puts his hand on her arm, does he not?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Saman", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (17:01)", "body": "Well I'm not a \"2\" but I agree with you - I love the first proposal scene! Thinking about it it's probably because it's the first time Lizzy and Darcy have a confrontation where they tell each other how they feel (the concept of release of tension mentioned by someone). Lambton Inn would come third for me after Darcy running from Pemberley to find Elizabeth. I agree that Jennifer Ehle looked a lot different in the first proposal scene, as did CF - perhaps because it was filmed only 2 weeks into shooting."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Becks", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (17:21)", "body": "Sorry girls, but I loved the \"look\" Darcy and Lizzie give each other over Georgiana playing the piano at Pemberley. The slight smile on Darcy's face gives me shivers up my spine!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (19:04)", "body": "I still am partial to the first time Darcy visits Lizzy alone at Hunsford. He seems so desperate to be able to carry on a conversation, but is so very incapable of doing so--until he provokes an argument. The look on his face when she takes the bait is wonderful, a mixture of joy and regret."}, {"response": 9, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (20:14)", "body": "So difficult to pick one fave -- but one of mine is the end of the second proposal, when Darcy turns and says, \"... dearest, loveliest Elizabeth.\" It's the first time, I believe, that he calls her by her first name alone, and the look is sooo tender & romantic. Ahhh, yes, one of my favorite scenes, indeed."}, {"response": 10, "author": "mich", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (21:11)", "body": "You've all mentioned the best but what about the scene after Darcy & lizzie run into each other at Pemberley. Darcy straightening his attire, running to the coach to catch Lizzie. Then the when he asks Lizzie to meet Georgiana. What they must be suffering."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (21:41)", "body": "Ah, yes, kathleen...I think during the second proposal's \"Dearest, lovliest\" line is the first time Darcy (CF), aside from \"the look,\" actually warms up...he looks as if he's about to melt all over her. Oddly enough, it is Lizzy who then tenses up...she can't even look at him. It must have been very odd indeed to have Mr. Darcy at her feet after so many months of his stiff pride and awkward admiration..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Marsha", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (22:07)", "body": "My favorite is when Darcy comes to visit w/Bingley, after Lydia's rescue-though Mrs Bennet's remarks are enough to make one vince P.S. I also love \"the look\" scene and when he runs into her at Pemberley also"}, {"response": 13, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:29)", "body": "Not to mention Darcy waiting at the window to spy Lizzie at the Netherfield ball, then retreating; and the whole glorious dialogue between the two of them during that dance/sparring match!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "lisaC", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (12:24)", "body": "The scene where he comes out of the bath with his robe on and stares longingly at Lizzie from the window. I wonder what pleasurable thoughts are running through his head then. (This isn't my favorite one but the others have already been mentioned)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Kathy", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (20:41)", "body": "I love the vulnerability that CF/Darcy shows in the scene with Elizabeth after she learns of Lydia's elopement. He seems so desperate, he wants to help her but he cannot (just then). The dialogue that melts me the most is when Lizzy aplogizes for crying (CF/Darcy has her hand in his), and CF/Darcy says, \"No, no..\" with such a look of desperate agitation and concern, and his voice in those two words becomes so low and tender, so intimate, that you can almost imagine them embracing right there. Of course I like the \"look\" very much also, but that has been discussed at length. I was actually disappointed with the second proposal scene in P&P2. I always imagined a more joyful response from Darcy and Lizzie than what was portrayed. This was the resolution of more than a year of longing, learning, and loving, yet their countenances were so sedate! Kathy"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:33)", "body": "Kathy, I agree with you completely about the second proposal. I've always found it disappointingly anticlimactic. JA says, . . .The happiness which this reply produced, was such as he [Darcy] had probably never felt before; and he expressed himself on the occasion as sensibly and as warmly as a man violently in love can be supposed to do. Had Elizabeth been able to to encounter his eye, she might have seen how well the expression of heart-felt delight, diffused over his face, became him; but, though she could not look, she could listen, and he told her of feelings, which, in proving of what importance she was to him, made his affection every moment more valuable. Well, gee, couldn't we have had some of that? The P&P2 version is all repressed emotion--the nadir of British stiff-upper-lippiness. Five hours of smoldering and all we get is restraint."}, {"response": 17, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (22:49)", "body": "Anne 3, some months ago I used exactly this quote for exactly the same purpose, and was universally contradicted! I agree wholeheartedly with you and Kathy! Joan, too"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Karen", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (23:14)", "body": "So many excellent scenes have been mentioned (The Look, Hunsford, Darcy straigtening his clothes to see Lizzy and her anunt and uncle at P., etc.) I loved all of them but The Look is my favorite. I also must agree with Anne 3, Kathy and Joan, too the joy of the second proposal is cut short but I do love Darcy's \"dearest, loveliest Elizabeth.\" They could have given us more of that scene and when Eliza and Darcy talk about when they fell in love. Maybe the film footage is there and just wasn't included (wishful thinking I know but I must dream) and will be included in a directors edition of the videos. Karen"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (00:19)", "body": "will be included in a directors edition of the videos. I wonder occasionally if Simon Langton takes bribes..."}, {"response": 20, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (00:54)", "body": "I also agree that the second proposal scene lacked something (maybe too much was left on the cutting room floor). For one thing, when Darcy says 'dearest, loveliest Elizabeth' and then turns to look at her, it seems to me they should have STOPPED WALKING! for a brief moment. Firth's reaction when Lizzy says her feelings are 'quite the opposite' is wonderful."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (08:14)", "body": "I agree, the second proposal was unfulfilling. I calmly waited for the following scenes to clear my anticipation but nothing of consequence occurred until the final kiss. By the time this event took place, the kiss seemed completely out of character. Would such a man kiss even his wife in public? I've always imagined someone key in screen writing had to rush off to another job."}, {"response": 22, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (11:39)", "body": "Well, as a screenwriter myself, maybe I can provide some insight. As Dino De Laurentiis once said: \"Chop chop/head falls in lap/end of movie.\" In other words, once you bring your two leads together, it's over. You end with a wedding or a kiss (here we get both) and move on to your next gig. . ."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (13:45)", "body": "Amy2, I agree with Mr. De Laurentiis, but my personal preference would have been to see Darcy ''express.. himself on the occasion as sensibly and as warmly as a man violently in love can be supposed to do'' in place of the wedding and kiss. Mr. Davis has done such a wonderful job of supplying dialog that was implied by J.A.. I would have loved to hear his efforts on that scene of denoument."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (15:44)", "body": "The look on CF's face is worth a million kisses. And they didn't kiss in the book, anyway, so what are you guys complaining about? ;)"}, {"response": 25, "author": "PatK", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (20:33)", "body": "The 'Look' scene - especially when Lizzy has gone to help Georgiana has to be my favorite. However, the flustered interaction when they meet after the swimming scene is a classic too. Then when he comes rushing back more properly attired - well! Two more of my favorite scenes are both at Pemberly when Lizzy is driving away and he stands looking after her."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (20:37)", "body": "No, they didn't kiss in the book. They merely wandered around totally oblivious of everything but each other for hours, thenrealised they had lost Jane and Bingley and rushed home to supper. I was waiting to see some long-distance shots of them,no dialogue,but obviously bubbling over with everything they had to say to each other.AND I wanted to see Lizzie being teased by her family for getting lost, the two of them individually bracing themselves before breaking the news to her parents, and Lizzie replyin to her Aunt Gardiner's letter about ponies in the park.IN Fact, the whole darned thing was much too short, and there should have been MORE, MORE, MORE of it."}, {"response": 27, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec 13, 1996 (23:48)", "body": "\"there should have been MORE, MORE, MORE of it.' I want to go to Brighton! ;-)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (09:08)", "body": "LOL; Joan, too. (Superb use of Austen text) Anne 3, some months ago I used exactly this quote for exactly the same purpose, and was universally contradicted! Joan, too Not by me, you weren\ufffdt They could have given us more of that scene and when Eliza and Darcy talk about when they fell in love. Maybe the film footage is there and just wasn't included (wishful thinking I know but I must dream) and will be included in a directors edition of the videos. Karen Ooh yes if we wish hard enough it can come true. I wonder occasionally if Simon Langton takes bribes... Anna LOL the kiss seemed completely out of character. Would such a man kiss even his wife in public? I've always imagined someone key in screen writing had to rush off to another job. Elaine Exactly my own feelings. I feel a bit embarrased to see them do something so common... my personal preference would have been to see Darcy ''express.. himself on the occasion as sensibly and as warmly as a man violently in love can be supposed to do'' in place of the wedding and kiss. Mari I absolutely agree if you have to choose. As a matter of fact I tried to visualise this back at the old P&P2 board. Holding hands and talking tenderly and maybe one kiss on some place proper like the wrist inside, where the heartbeat is... Ann2"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (09:22)", "body": "I give up. Have been trying to edit the above answer for too long now. Ann2"}, {"response": 30, "author": "summit", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (10:07)", "body": "from Ann: I still am partial to the first time Darcy visits Lizzy alone at Hunsford. I love all Darcy's visits to Hunsford for his eyes . His pupils are tremendously dilated with attraction (a look that guarantees my unswerving attention) as he sits across the room, stuck hearing \"collinspeak\" and watching cousin Col. Fitzwilliam charming his Lizzie. And yes, that first visit alone to Hunsford again shows him dark-eyed with longing, whenever he dares glance up from his hat on his knees or the surrounding decor."}, {"response": 31, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (17:50)", "body": "\"There should have beem MORE MORE MORE of it\" I totally agree with you. A scene with Darcy going up to Elizabeth and whispering in her ear \" Your father wants to speak with you\" before she went to see her father would have been a great comfort indeed."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:07)", "body": "I wonder if they ran out of time to film more at the end. I know they were short on time on the day they filmed the second proposal scene (they had had bad weather and everything was put off until the end). But I believe \"Making of\" says that they managed to complete everything. Davies might have been right about ending a movie right after the payoff, but his Y chromosome might have made him mistake what the payoff was! It was not Lizzy and Darcy finally getting together, but seeing them together secure in the affections of the other, both behaving naturally together for the first time since they met.."}, {"response": 33, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (20:27)", "body": "More more more... We the people of this BB, faithful JA/P&P/P&P2 admirators, demand a proper conclusion, a full review of the script and an all new 1 hour 7th episode depicting the above mentionned most important missing scenes. To wait 5 3/4 hour for this, which was very agreable (not to say tolerable), but certainly NOT what I was expecting/imagining. A man violently in love would have done better, Script, Script, please... Should I say unsatisfying? To be blunt, a cheap conclusion for this kind of wonderful work. There, I said it. Who else will, like me, rerun the same scene over and over from Emma's video (coming in March)? Tell me if I'm wrong, but there was no kiss in Emma's book either, no? and what did they do with it? Ahhh! Blissfull"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (01:40)", "body": "When I watched Emma - only twice so far - I had some thoughts about how they made the absolute most of every second under those trees. Did they maybe learn from women around the world complaining about the restricted P&P2 ending ?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (09:07)", "body": "I agree with MORE, MORE, MORE! My first attempt at more, more, more was to find other Colin Firth films, but that led nowhere. The above proposed petition is perhaps the only solution. Could we also give CF some direction in choosing future roles? My heart will stop upon viewing him as a befuddled father of seven."}, {"response": 36, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (16:35)", "body": "I agree that there was a \"better wrap it up quality\" to the end of P&P2. A _little_ denoument after the climax would have been nice, right?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (18:43)", "body": "a lot would have been even better..."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (14:37)", "body": "I found this comment on Ms. Ketchell's home page, found by following links in the PP2 BB comment ''Kissing Colin or Mr. Darcy'' Debra Ketchell's Comments: ''Sue Birtwistle was right. On first viewing, I did not think Firth's portrayal was the quintessential Darcy being a long time fan of Fay Welton's 1979 BBC production with David Lintoul as Darcy. After reading the novel again and a second viewing of the 1995 BBC production, I think Colin Firth has captured both the \"pride\" and the vulnerability of Darcy. That the scriptwriter did not see fit to end the production with the cynical Austen wit, but rather a sacchrine double-wedding shot is unfortunate. A more impertinent ending between Darcy and Elizabeth would have been more effective and original.'' Couldn't say it better myself."}, {"response": 39, "author": "Elaine", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (23:34)", "body": "I demand a rewrite. At least one more tape is necessary to rectify this egregious oversight."}, {"response": 40, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (13:14)", "body": "Yeah. It would have been nice if they had given us just 10-15 minutes more. And here so much excessive screentime is devoted to something like THE ROCK and that horrible mini TITANIC. Makes ya wonder. . ."}, {"response": 41, "author": "donr", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (22:07)", "body": "Perhaps I tred where only angels dare, i.e., a Lady's discussion group, but my sentiments will not be repressed. I regret very much the short shift given to Chapters 58, 59, and 60. Elizabeth's and Darcy's intimate conversation after the second proposal, Elizabeth's and Jane's sharing of their happiness for half the night, Bingley's expressive hand shake with Elizabeth, the delightful and tender conversation between Elizabeth and her father have all been given short shift. And we can only imagine with hat pleasure we could watch the scene at the Lucas lodge or even better all the delightful scenes that are suggested in the Wrap-Up. But, then, since I know none of the particulars, I may judge too hastily."}, {"response": 42, "author": "donr", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (22:07)", "body": "Perhaps I tred where only angels dare, i.e., a Lady's discussion group, but my sentiments will not be repressed. I regret very much the short shift given to Chapters 58, 59, and 60. Elizabeth's and Darcy's intimate conversation after the second proposal, Elizabeth's and Jane's sharing of their happiness for half the night, Bingley's expressive hand shake with Elizabeth, the delightful and tender conversation between Elizabeth and her father have all been given short shift. And we can only imagine with hat pleasure we could watch the scene at the Lucas lodge or even better all the delightful scenes that are suggested in the Wrap-Up. But, then, since I know none of the particulars, I may judge too hastily."}, {"response": 43, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (23:01)", "body": "Donald, Thanks for considering us ladies. I daresay you will encounter some gentlemen here, too. I also believe you will not find a one who disagrees with your sentiments."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (20:49)", "body": "Thank you, Donald. For thinking that I could be a lady. And for proving that X and Y chromosmes can think alike."}, {"response": 45, "author": "candace", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (10:37)", "body": "I really thought that the wedding scene was quite gratuitous. JA novels never describe the wedding or for that matter, JA would never use the word fornication. It makes me belive that the makers of this broadcast felt that women are the ones who will be watching this, thus we MUST put in a wedding. I would have much preferred maybe just them leaving the church as in S&S or Emma, and take the time that the wedding took up to show more of the courtship or scenes of what happened to each character as the ook explains."}, {"response": 46, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (11:18)", "body": "I rather liked the Wedding -- it was a nice wrap-up, the way they panned the cast of characters -- kind of a final farewell to all of these people. And wasn't the very goal of the whole book the achievement of this (most felicitous) event?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (19:13)", "body": "Good point, Amy2.. Have to always reduce stories to the ridiculous: Everybody worried about marriage in the beginning, get married in the end, things happen in between."}, {"response": 48, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (19:37)", "body": "\"JA would never use the word fornication.\" Probably not, however the priest's words during the ceremony are chapter and verse from the marriage liturgy of the time. And I thought it very clever how and when the camera focused on the various characters (both present at and absent from the ceremony) during the various parts of the text of the liturgy."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Inko", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (20:52)", "body": "Joan, too: I always liked the way the camera panned to different characters during the wedding ceremony, especially to Lady C and Anne when the priest said \"for the procreation of children\" and to Lydia and Wickam for the fornication part, and finally to Darcy and Lizzie when he got to the \"help and comfort\" part. They were to be the best suited and happiest of all the couples shown to that point, IMHO."}, {"response": 50, "author": "donr", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (22:08)", "body": "I find little fault with the wedding ceremony, which I rather like, but with the quick transition from Elizabeth's (greatly abbreviated) talk with her father to the wedding ceremony. It would have been, indeed, a great pleasure to see some scenes from their courtship period. Here we could enjoy seeing their transition from two young people who showed little or no feelings towards each other to two young people who showed their very deep affection for each other."}, {"response": 51, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (10:38)", "body": "I'm with Donald. Just to give us some assurance that their marriage is going to be as great as their courtship."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (19:08)", "body": "I agree with Donald and Amy2. Another hour would have been fine. Then they could have included the second walk (which I sorely missed,) the evening at Longbourn when Darcy tells Lizzie her father wants her, the full version of that meeting and then Lizzie telling her mother of the engagement. But lacking all that, I think they were right in finishing with the wedding rather than carrying on after that had taken place. It would have been anticlimactic to see Mrs. Bennet visiting Netherfield and talking about Mrs. Darcy, etc."}, {"response": 53, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (20:17)", "body": "Well, Davies gave us a typical Hollywood Ending: A double wedding, and freezeframe on a kiss. That's fine for most romances, but the quality of this production was so fine it definitely left you wanting something more."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec 28, 1996 (22:36)", "body": "As I see it the double wedding was in the book,so why not. If not the wedding as the Fine could it end with Lizzie having her first child. Of course with many of the before mentioned missing scenes. I would have liked to have seen them happy together at Pemberely.I must say I never really watch the ending because I hate to see it end."}, {"response": 55, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (22:43)", "body": "I wish they had just included the scenes in Austen at the end of P&P2. Then we would have gotten at least the logical continuation of the romance after Darcy proposes, and Eliabeth tells him _why_ he fell in love with her."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (01:09)", "body": "I loved Inko's comment - after Lizzy talks with her Dad there is another hour of film. It makes me tingle just thinking about it. In this hour we need to include the scenes that amy2, donald and others have mentioned (chapters 58-60). As I was watching the last hour of P&P2, I giggled to myself visualizing Mrs. Bennett being made speechless by the fact that Darcy was her son-in- law. Oh how I wish they had included those scene for the viewing public (or just us BB folks)."}, {"response": 57, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "My fantasy is that there's a laserdisc version out there somewhere, just waiting to be released, with a \"Making Of\" track and all of these \"missing scenes.\""}, {"response": 58, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (16:24)", "body": "\" I giggled to myself visualizing Mrs. Bennett being made speechless by the fact that Darcy was her son-in-law. Oh how I wish they had included those scene for the viewing public (or just us BB folks).\" Yes. we could show Mrs. B. sitting on her chaise lounge with a surprized look on her face, her mouth open in a perfect \"O\", and no words coming out at all. Meantime, the servants could be shown preparing supper, the girls playing horseshoes, E & D strolling about the grounds, Mr. B. sipping wine and reading a book, and still Mrs. B. sits perfectly still. Finally she begins to fidgit and bless herself. Activity around her continues. Then she springs to her feet. \"Where is Hill? fetch her this instant!\" Then she hurries out onto the grounds, finds E & D and pulls E aside, wispering energetically in her ear while E alternately looks at the ground and at D with a supressed smile. Mrs. B keeps trying to smile and look friendly to Mr. D but is too afraid of him to address him. Then she hurries away. D looks questioningly at E. E smiles and says, \"Sir, my mother would like to know what your favorite dish is.\""}, {"response": 59, "author": "Donna", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "You don't have to wish. You just did it Katy."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "Yes Katy! That was an exquisite scene you just created!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (00:23)", "body": "Very nice, katy! Could Darcy perhaps overhear little snippets of conversation regarding \"pin money\" and \"Special licenses\"? ;-)"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Tay", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (15:55)", "body": "Oh, bravo, Katy, bravo!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "donr", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (21:29)", "body": "Katy has a very good imagination. Along that line, whenever I read Chapter 61, which I always do after watching the conclusion of P&P2, I often imagine how fascinating a scene could be written about the 21-yr-old Mrs. Darcy as she greets her husband's Aunt, Lady Catherine at Pemberly. I realize the sequel \"Presumption...\" touches upon this, but I agree with the reviewer that it is a shallow book. Such a scene could bring out very tastefully the strong love between a husband and wife who have totally co mitted themselves to each other."}, {"response": 64, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (11:33)", "body": "Katy! Get back on that missing scenes thread and START WRITING, this instant! Donald you have hit the proverbial nail on the head when you say \"I often imagine....\" So do I. Austen's characters do have a life of their own, do't they?They keep jumping out at me from all dark corners, invading my sleep,interrupting my housework..... My current obsession is wondering how Darcy would cope with a pregnant, crotchety Lizzie. Any how he would deal with parenthood"}, {"response": 65, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (15:57)", "body": "how Darcy would cope with a pregnant, crotchety Lizzie. or how a pregnant Lizzy would cope with a neurotically anxious Darcy?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Jan  4, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "Can't you just see him pacing about in total anguish while Lizzy is in labor, knowing the probability of her dying in child birth. It would be so hard for him to sit and wait, and not run up to be with her!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (17:44)", "body": "I could see Lizzy as a really great mother, with her sense of exuberance and fun. I wonder if Darcy could relax enough to be a good father?"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (17:59)", "body": ". . . . wonder if Darcy could relax enough to be a good father? I'm sure he could. He was such an affectionate brother."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (20:42)", "body": "Anne3: \" He was such an affectionate brother.\" Well, I always say that they who are affectionate brothers as children, grow up to be affectionate fathers!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 1997 (20:33)", "body": "That's true. He did take prodigious good care of Miss Darcy!"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (09:38)", "body": "You are probably right. But I think that he might spoil his daughters rotten, and be very strict on his sons."}, {"response": 72, "author": "summit", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (06:47)", "body": "All your comments above have given me a good idea of what may be included in my Romance Under the Elms (final booklet version)for your reading pleasure. (See Topic 43 for excerpts)"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (03:26)", "body": "Ann, what a bittersweet image...the danger of Lizzie dying in childbirth coupled with the joyful anticipation of a little \"Larcy\" (or \"Dizzy\"!)...I can just picture Mr. Darcy, dissheveled, panting, pacing....ooooh, you're giving me chills! And to Ann2, from way back in this topic, yes - the Emma people packed plenty into the proposal scene, did they not? My friend Rima once asked, in jest, \"Did they really KISS like that back then? Gives new meaning to the oft-quoted saying, \"Nothing is new under the sun\"...! ;}"}, {"response": 74, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "I was struck by the more casual attitude to romance in Paltrow's EMMA, as opposed to P&P2. Frank Churchill is kissing everyone's hand all over the place; Mr. Elton is all over Emma in the carriage proposal scene, etc. I wonder which was a more accurate reflection of Austen's day: the strict propriety of P&P2, or the more relaxed attitude of EMMA."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (12:52)", "body": "Yes, have been wondering the same thing myself (this is strictly a research topic; am working on a sequel chapter with Col. Fitz) ;)"}, {"response": 76, "author": "donr", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "For some time I have been bothered by what seems to me to be a major inconsistancy between Andrew Davies' screen play of P&P and Jane Austen's masterpiece. In the novel, for 38 chapters, we read of Elizabeth's growing dislike of Darcy, and Darcy's growing affection for Elizabeth. Then, starting with Chapter 46 (after four change-of-heart chapters) we read of Elizabeth's growing love for Darcy (\"..never had she honestly felt that she could love him..\", and \"..she was convinced that she could have been happy with him..\"); and Darcy's \"sinking\" affection and regard for her (\"..it is improbable that they should ever see each other again on such terms of cordial ty..\" and \"..there seemed a gulf impassable between them..\"). In Davies' screen play, however, Elizabeth's growing love for Darcy is so underplayed that as late as the bedroom scene (following the news of Lydia's impending wedding) she has yet to determine her feelings toward him. At the same time, by including the scenes of Darcy's trip to London and search for Lydia, the screen play removes any doubt of Darcy's continued affection for Elizabeth. My question: Why did Davies think this simplication of the plot necessary? Personally, I much prefer Jane Austen's version. The suspense introduced by the apparent reversal of feelings of both Elizabeth and Darcy heightens my interest in the later part of the story."}, {"response": 77, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "Donald, I am certain there is more to it, but one aspect must be to hold audience attention over a six week or 3 day period. Why tune into part 5 if the trend is already headed toward boy got girl in part 3?"}, {"response": 78, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (14:37)", "body": "as late as the bedroom scene (following the news of Lydia's impending wedding) she has yet to determine her feelings toward him. Donald, I always interpreted these scenes as Elizabeth's inability to verbalize her feelings. She has realized, by that time, that her feelings have undergone a material change, but she is not yet able to admit this to herself or her sister. Perhaps I am reading into the scenes what I know to be there from the book. I would prefer to think, however, that the feelings are there, but she has yet to find the words."}, {"response": 79, "author": "churchh", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (15:46)", "body": "Apparently the one scene in the Paltrow Emma which was totally anachronistic and erroneous was Frank Churchill putting his hand on Jane Fairfax's shoulder (gasp!) as she is playing piana and he is singing a duet with her at the party at the Coxes (? been a while, may not be remembering it exactly right)."}, {"response": 80, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (15:56)", "body": "Apparently the one scene in the Paltrow Emma which was totally anachronistic and erroneous was Frank Churchill putting his hand on Jane Fairfax's shoulder (gasp!) as she is playing piana and he is singing a duet with her at the party at the Coxes (? been a while, may not be remembering it exactly right). I Think it was Emma's shoulder, but I was shocked, SHOCKED!"}, {"response": 81, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (16:33)", "body": "ENFJ-- still around? Come to Pemberley??? ;-)"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (18:44)", "body": "In Davies' screen play, however, Elizabeth's growing love for Darcy is so underplayed that as late as the bedroom scene (following the news of Lydia's impending wedding) she has yet to determine her feelings toward him. At the same time, by including the scenes of Darcy's trip to London and search for Lydia, the screen play removes any doubt of Darcy's continued affection for Elizabeth. Donald, I think the explanation is the difficulty of dramatizing someone's thought processes. Austen goes to great length to show E's gradual change of heart, but it is all done by description or interior monologues. In dramatizing this, Davies really only had two choices: to have E discuss her feelings with someone or to have her verbalize her feelings in a voice-over. We know that he hated the static nature of the latter (that's one reason why this version is so lively, the action is never broken up by soliloquies or long letters), and as far as discussion goes, her only confidante was Jane, for whom the whole Bingley business made the subject verboten. It's true that this aspect of the book was one they couldn't really capture on film, but they had some good substitutions anyway. The famous Look exchanged between E &D at Pemberley showed perfectly how much their relationship had changed. And E's agitation at any mention of D's name, her anxiety about seeing him again, showed us her feelings pretty well. As far as D's feelings go, I'm not sure I understand you. His eagerness to introduce E to Pemberley clearly shows that he still loved her, and the lines you quoted are E's beliefs about what D might be thinking, not what he actually thought. It's true that the scenes of D as \"avenging angel\" removed any suspense we might feel if we shared E's belief that no respectable man would ever want anything to do with the Bennets after L's elopement. But in the series, D's love was so obvious that I guess they hought that there wouldn't be that suspense anyway."}, {"response": 83, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "\"In Davies' screen play, however, Elizabeth's growing love for Darcy is so underplayed that as late as the bedroom scene (following the news of Lydia's impending wedding) she has yet to determine her feelings toward him. At the same time, by including the scenes of Darcy's trip to London and search for Lydia, the screen play removes any doubt of Darcy's continued affection for Elizabeth.\" This is why we shouldn't have been so hard on Mike. Looking only at P&P2, there is lots of room for misinterpretation of Lizzy's motives!"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "\"Looking only at P&P2\",and that is what made me read the book. There was so much I wanted to know."}, {"response": 85, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (20:17)", "body": "]Looking only at P&P2, there is lots of room for misinterpretation of Lizzy's motives! that's why I thought (and still think) there was no point in discussing it further with some-one who had not and said he would not read the book."}, {"response": 86, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (12:30)", "body": "You all have made some excellent points. I too believed that every time Jane asked Elizabeth whether she cared for Darcy & wished him to renew his affections & when she answered: \"I don't know,\" she was just having trouble verbalizing her growing feelings. Also, Henry -- Mr. Elton in the Paltrow EMMA _repeatedly_ takes Miss Woodhouse on the shoulder at a party. I was actually kind of shocked to see it, along with Frank Churchill kissing everyone's hand."}, {"response": 87, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (13:57)", "body": "Kissing hands was allowed in some social situations... I think the only times a poor fellow actually got to touch a girl was when he helped her into or out of a carriage, on or off a horse, walked arm in arm with her, kissed her hand, or danced with her."}, {"response": 88, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (14:15)", "body": "H.C. tells us: I think the only times a poor fellow actually got to touch a girl was when he helped her into or out of a carriage, on or off a horse, walked arm in arm with her, kissed her hand, or danced with her. Mary, enough of that concerto! Play us a reel!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "donr", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (15:34)", "body": "Dear Ann3, thank you for your long and informative answer to my question. As to Darcy'c \"sinking\" affection and regard for her, I am taking at face value Elizabeth's introspections. By asking this question, you have made me aware that I am experiencing the story, not surprisingly, through Elizabeth, i. e., I do my best to temporarily shut out what I already know will happen. Apparently, I use this technique to maintain my continued enjoyment in reading the novel. Like evryone else, I have nothing but praise for Davies' change-of-heart scene at Pemberly. Only, I focus on Elizabeth's smile. It is undoubtedly one of the tenderest and most romantic scenes, I have seen on the screeen. Finally, I add that my interest in P&P is purely for enjoyment. I spend too much of my workday life on scholarship to do otherwise."}, {"response": 90, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (11:04)", "body": "H.C.: Would it have been acceptable for Mr. Elton, a clergyman, to keep tapping Emma on the shoulder repeatedly at a dinner party? (Not just a gentle rap -- he was practically knocking her over in the film!) And speaking of hand-kissing: It's interesting that the only male I can think of who pantomines this is P&P2 is the odious Mr. Hurst."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (16:37)", "body": "]And speaking of hand-kissing: It's interesting that the only male I can think of who pantomines this is P&P2 is the odious Mr. Hurst. I thought Bingley was on his way to kiss Jane's hand when he and Darcy visit after Bingley and Jane are engaged and just before Bingley suggests a walk. The comera cuts to Darcy, but it looks to me as Bingley has every intention of kissing Jane's hand."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Mari", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (18:13)", "body": "Bingley, the hand-kisser; he also kisses Georgiana's hand in the imagined scene when Jane is reading Caroline's letter that they have left Netherfield for London, and that she 'dares to hope that she will be calling her sister'."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (01:36)", "body": "H. C. wrote: //Frank Churchill putting his hand on Jane Fairfax's shoulder (gasp!) as she is playing piana and he is singing a duet with her // *Gasp* indeed, I could not believe my eyes when I saw this, but maybe they wanted to imply that Frank was not always thinking of propriety (He had bougth her that pianoforte...) //only times a poor fellow actually got to touch a girl was when he helped her into or out of a carriage,...// What was your reaction to the manner in which Captain Wentworth assisted Anne Elliot into Admiral Crofts vehicle? Was there not some reason to exclaim:Hands off...? (Referring to Amanda and Ciaran version of Persuasion.)"}, {"response": 94, "author": "amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (08:19)", "body": "The touch in Persuasion more more a part of the story than the touch in Emma. So, no. No reason to exclaim, complain or any other lame."}, {"response": 95, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (10:21)", "body": "//No reason to exclaim, complain or any other lame.// I did not mean that *I* recent the tender manners of Captain Wentworth's. Just that someone in the company migth have reacted *if* they had noticed it. Maybe this belongs to propriety topic?"}, {"response": 96, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (12:41)", "body": "I guess Darcy was a little too stiff & reserved to indulge in this habit?"}, {"response": 97, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (22:58)", "body": "Kissing ladies hands, and 'smoldering' are not compatible. Olivier's version offered us that gallantry; for CF's it would have been out of character. Unless, of course, the story had expanded on their courtship after Lizzy accepted him. Now, there is a real possibility...except I have read the creative writings on the Firth page and there Darcy whizzes right past the 'hands' stage. Very romantic, reading about how all the 'smoldering' comes out now that they have both fallen in love."}, {"response": 98, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (11:09)", "body": "Mary C., you are absolutely right -- no smoldering Byronic hero would stoop to kissing ladies' hands!"}, {"response": 99, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (20:21)", "body": "Nevertheless in the P&P2 version, his did make the most of the moment when he went to the inn in Lambtom and four Elizabeth so distressed. He touched her arm to assist he to her chair, then he hovered over her, then he touched her arm with both of his hands (and appeared a bit reluctant to let her go when she told him she was fine. Even in the book you can imagine something similar is going on because Elizabeth's knees \"trembled under her\" and she was \"unable to support herself\". If he was concerned enough to hang out with her while the servant went for the Gardiners, then I would hope he didn't just stand there like a lug with his hands behind his back."}, {"response": 100, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "] He touched her arm to assist he to her chair, then he hovered over her, then he touched her arm with both of his hands (and appeared a bit reluctant to let her go when she told him she was fine. __ The little grunting sound that accompanied these ministrations was very tender."}, {"response": 101, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (13:00)", "body": "When else had they actually touched up to this point? The dance at Netherfield; when he handed her into her carriage; anything else?"}, {"response": 102, "author": "donr", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (15:26)", "body": "Such discipline that Darcy displays in his courtship of Elizabeth is to be admired even if, to most of us, it seems too difficult . It surely is an example of courtship where the two young people's virtues are stronger than their passions."}, {"response": 103, "author": "sld", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (17:48)", "body": "Yes, it is, Donald. And I, for one, think it is absolutely exciting. It makes the moments of a little touching and tender looks all that more adorable. And Amy, I can't think of any other time they touch. Although as long as I have read the book (over 20 years), I had always thought that after Darcy proposed the second time he pounced her. \"The happiness which this reply produced was such as he had never felt before, and he expressed himself on the occasion as sensibly and as warmly as a man violently in love can be supposed to do. Had Elizabeth been able to encounter his eyes, she might have seen how well the expression of heartfelt delight diffused over his face became him...\" But I guess at that time that is doubtful. Just when was it acceptable to kiss back then? Was is not OK once you were engaged? Does anybody know the real answer? So do you think Darcy kissed Elizabeth before the wedding?"}, {"response": 104, "author": "sld", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (17:49)", "body": "Yes, it is, Donald. And I, for one, think it is absolutely exciting. It makes the moments of a little touching and tender looks all that more adorable. And Amy, I can't think of any other time they touch. Although as long as I have read the book (over 20 years), I had always thought that after Darcy proposed the second time he pounced her. \"The happiness which this reply produced was such as he had never felt before, and he expressed himself on the occasion as sensibly and as warmly as a man violently in love can be supposed to do. Had Elizabeth been able to encounter his eyes, she might have seen how well the expression of heartfelt delight diffused over his face became him...\" But I guess at that time that is doubtful. Just when was it acceptable to kiss back then? Was is not OK once you were engaged? Does anybody know the real answer? So do you think Darcy kissed Elizabeth before the wedding?"}, {"response": 105, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (18:44)", "body": "] So do you think Darcy kissed Elizabeth before the wedding? Yes!"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:29)", "body": "I agree whole-heartedly with Anna, I am sure there was plenty of snogging going on before the wedding! *sigh* :-)"}, {"response": 107, "author": "elder", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:53)", "body": "Agree, agree -- and on the day of the Darcy's second proposal Bingley suggested going for a walk because he wanted to be alone w/ Jane (and they lagged behind, rather than going on ahead), so I am sure that they found some private moments as well."}, {"response": 108, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (21:34)", "body": "For an account of one of those private moments, make a visit to the Creative Writings on the Firth page and read the two chapters called 'Eliza and Darcy take a Second Walk'. Verrrry romantic!"}, {"response": 109, "author": "sld", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (22:52)", "body": "Thanks for the tip, Mary."}, {"response": 110, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (09:35)", "body": "Mary: I went to the Creative Writings on the Firth page last night and I did not see these two chapters! Can you give me a little more direction? I saw a lot of Pride and Prejudice, the Mucial, but not the Second Walk."}, {"response": 111, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "Wouldn't the walled garden (where Elizabeth has her confrontation with Lady Catherine) have made a terrific spot for a bit of snogging? Just duck in and head for that lovely out-of-sight (of the house) corner!!!"}, {"response": 112, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (14:47)", "body": "No doubt about it, Margaret!"}, {"response": 113, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (15:05)", "body": "]Sharon: \"Mary: I went to the Creative Writings on the Firth page last night and I did not see these two chapters! Can you give me a little more direction? I saw a lot of Pride and Prejudice, the Mucial, but not the Second Walk.\" Sharon -- instead of Creative Writings, click on More Colin and then click on Scenes Left Out of P&P. Enjoy. : )"}, {"response": 114, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (11:05)", "body": "Yup, that \"pretty sort of wilderness\" could be the setting for something more pleasant than Lady Catherine!!"}, {"response": 115, "author": "sld", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (11:49)", "body": "Yeah, but you have two couples competing for that spot."}, {"response": 116, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (14:20)", "body": "Sharon: Yeah, but you have two couples competing for that spot. yeah, but they're sisters, they are used to sharing! ;-)"}, {"response": 117, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (15:21)", "body": "Cheryl -- will Lizzie & Jane share only the lovely space, or do you envision them sharing more?! (a menage a quatre would not be quite proper, would it?) ;-)"}, {"response": 118, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (15:50)", "body": "]yeah, but they're sisters, they are used to sharing! ;-)"}, {"response": 119, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:05)", "body": "Had I ever so much as suspected that Cheryl would tangent off into this group idea, I should never have invited her to bathe with me and Mr Darcy."}, {"response": 120, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (16:18)", "body": "]Had I ever so much as suspected that Cheryl would tangent off into this group idea, I should never have invited her to bathe with me and Mr Darcy. Amy, this shouldn't come as a total surprise to you. And just how big is that tub, anyway?"}, {"response": 121, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (11:06)", "body": "Maybe they can all go to Bath and luxuriate in the hot tub together!"}, {"response": 122, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (11:48)", "body": "Yeeaaahhh, Amy!"}, {"response": 123, "author": "amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 24, 1997 (01:20)", "body": "Come on in Myretta. It is a pond-sized tub."}, {"response": 124, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (16:39)", "body": "Just coming on this thread, but couldn't believe the omission of the fencing scene in favorite P&P2 scenes ( I shall conquer this!) Ladies, he was WET! I agree that the end was anticlimactic and I expected more also. The kiss was out of place, and it appeared that Elizabeth initiated it. HORRORS in those days. Pretty sad if it was the first snog."}, {"response": 125, "author": "sld", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (17:56)", "body": "' Pretty sad if it was the first snog. ' If it was, that is probably why SHE initiated it!"}, {"response": 126, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (20:26)", "body": "]If it was, that is probably why SHE initiated it! a palpable hit!"}, {"response": 127, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (16:28)", "body": "I still belive that the fencing scene shows his struggle to overcome his 'ungentlemanly behavior'. When they come to the second proposal he tells her that he knew she though him devoid of every human feeling. In the book they go on to discuss their feelings in the interim, after the rejected proposal (on his side) and the letter (on her side), and he says; ``My object then,'' replied Darcy, ``was to shew you, by every civility in my power, that I was not so mean as to resent the past; and I hoped to obt in your forgiveness, to lessen your ill opinion, by letting you see that your reproofs had been attended to. How soon any other wishes introduced themselves I can hardly tell, but I believe in about half an hour after I had seen you.'' Surely he didn't expect to ever see her again, but he respected her (enough to ask her to marry him!), and after consideration, took her criticisms to heart and tried to improve his behavior, even though they had cost him (he thought) the woman he loved. Of course, if he had not done so, without doing it for the sake of winning her, Austen would not have brought them back together. His improvement had to be 'disinterested' in order for him to earn his 'reward'. This is one speech that Austen actually wrote that I would dearly have loved to have heard our CF deliver! Especially the last sentence... how sweet!"}, {"response": 128, "author": "sld", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (16:56)", "body": "'and tried to improve his behavior, even though they had cost him (he thought) the woman he loved.' Ahhhaawwwwww! He is so CUTE!"}, {"response": 129, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (19:53)", "body": "Mari, you may be right, but I still think the line: \"I shall conquer this!\" refers to his passion for Lizzie."}, {"response": 130, "author": "Susan", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (21:14)", "body": "Yes, Amy2, if he was talking about changing his behavior, he would have said something different than his passionate \"I shall conquer this!\" Something more bland, like \"I can improve my character. I can, I can!\" Nope, I think he might have been thinking about a cooling dip in that pond about then, not how to be a better person."}, {"response": 131, "author": "donr", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (23:43)", "body": "My interpretation of Darcy's line: \"I shall conquer this!\" agrees with Amy2. It was my first impression January-96 and still is. I believe this would be the usual behavior of a man who has been turned down by a women. His pride would demand that he get over it and forget her. After all, there are plenty of other marriageable young ladies in his world. The fact that his feelings for Elizabeth remain so very strong (how else can you explain the dramatic change in his manners and amiability) leads me to believe that his love, not just his passion, for her is indeed very deep. So deep, that despite all his strong sense of pride, he is willing to humble himself before her."}, {"response": 132, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (01:12)", "body": "My thoughts exactly Donald"}, {"response": 133, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (01:13)", "body": "Donald wrote: //believe that his love, not just his passion, for her is indeed very deep. So deep, that despite all his strong sense of pride, he is willing to humble himself before her. // Oh, yes and this is what makes him so precious to us! Is he not one in a thousand? No wonder our esteem in/of(?) him is so profound. To have all those inner qualities ...and on top of that, such an appearance to please the eye ;-) ."}, {"response": 134, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (07:43)", "body": "\"I can improve my character. I can, I can!\" LOL...if he had said that I think I would have tuned out."}, {"response": 135, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (11:36)", "body": "I think the show would have played more like an episode of PILGRIM'S PROGRESS!"}, {"response": 136, "author": "alfresco", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:07)", "body": "\"I shall conquer this!\" variations on a line's interpretation... -all the above, or -Darcy struggling to remove his fencing glove that sweat had glued to his palm, or -Darcy exercising valiantly to reduce the extra weight caused by his bingeing after Lizzy's rejection, or -Darcy debating which helping verb is correct to use in his sentence structure (Der Nutty Herr Professor strikes again...)"}, {"response": 137, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "LOL France! Haven't seen you in a while, nice to have you back! ;-)"}, {"response": 138, "author": "cassandra", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (19:50)", "body": "My favorite P&P2 romantic scenes: Above all, CF fencing-I shall conquer this! I shall! I also love the scene where they meet again at Pemberley and he asks her if she's pleased: Your good opinion is rarely bestowed and therefore more worth the earning. Cf's really turns on the charm here. AS well, I like the scene at Rosings Park when Elizabeth is playing the piano. We neither of us perform to strangers. Good look here too; Col Fitz knows he's intruding!"}, {"response": 139, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:20)", "body": "How much does Col. Fitzwilliam know of his cousin's feelings, do you think?"}, {"response": 140, "author": "Ann", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (14:53)", "body": "I think if Darcy confides in anyone about such things, it is with Fitzwilliam."}, {"response": 141, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (15:59)", "body": "] How much does Col. Fitzwilliam know of his cousin's feelings, do you think? I've always wondered about that; I agree that Darcy would confide in the Colonel, if in anyone. I also get the impression that the Colonel knows Darcy better than most. He is slightly older, so doesn't look up to Darcy in the way Bingley and Georgiana do and they seem to have spent time together as boys. Colonel Fitzwilliam may well have noticed Darcy's confusion even if Darcy hadn't confided in him."}, {"response": 142, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (16:42)", "body": "I agree with Anna. Col. Fitz does know Darcy better than just about anyone and they must have constant contact because of being co-guardians of Georgiana and co-executors of Mr. Darcy's will. Even if Darcy never said a word, I think Col. Fitz would see a difference in mood. And he did say \"he had heard much\" of Lizzie, so he must have suspected something!"}, {"response": 143, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:35)", "body": "From the book I did not get the impression that the good Colonel knew much of anything about Lizzie before meeting her. (The \"I've heard much of you\" line was not in the novel.) In fact, he seemed to be flirting a great deal with Lizzie, which would surprise me if he knew of Darcy's attraction."}, {"response": 144, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (19:27)", "body": "re 143: I agree with Kathleen's impression of the book v P&P2; in the video I think Fitzwilliam suspected something before Rosings (maybe that was part of the reason they cut the bit about Fitzwilliam being prevented only by 'poverty' from going after Lizzy himself). I do think that Fitzwilliam would have suspected something after the first proposal in both the book and in P&P2."}, {"response": 145, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (19:51)", "body": "Yes, Anna, that seems quite right -- the Colonel would have noticed that Darcy was a mess. Darcy was so upset about Lizzie's refusal, and all the things she said, I am certain he could not appear with complete composure on the trip w/ Col Fitzwilliam (to London?)"}, {"response": 146, "author": "sld", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (20:22)", "body": "I don't think Darcy gives out details at all. He did not name names (Jane's) when he told Fitzwilliam about busting it up with Bingley. So he probably never mentioned Elizabeth all until they got to Rosings. At Rosings he could have warned Fitzwilliam off of Elizabeth though without letting on to his own interest in her by mentioning her lack of fortune. I can't decide who most likely told Fitzwilliam about Elizabeth - Darcy or Lady C."}, {"response": 147, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (01:12)", "body": "Sharon - Based on the novel, either one but probably Darcy. I don't think Lady C. would have considered Lizzy noteworthy enough to mention to the Colonel."}, {"response": 148, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (11:04)", "body": "Good points all! In the book DARCY'S STORY, the author makes Georgianna Darcy's confidante in matters of love, as opposed to the Colonel, which is an interesting choice. But I agree that Fitz _must have_ noticed Darcy's discomposure after Proposal #1 and thereafter. Just as Jane surely would have noticed Lizzy's if she hadn't confided in her!"}, {"response": 149, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (11:16)", "body": "But in the end of the book, Jane does not notice Lizzy! Jane never realises that Lizzy's opinion of Mr. D has changed until Lizzy tells her. She discusses it with Bingley and they decide it is impossible. Jane is not suspicious of other people's feelings, but takes them as they are openly given."}, {"response": 150, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (10:09)", "body": "[ DARCY'S STORY, the author makes Georgianna Darcy's confidante in matters of love,] I am going to hold my comments on this one until everyone else has had a chance to read the book. [Jane never realises that Lizzy's opinion of Mr. D has changed until Lizzy tells her.] Very true, Ann. So if Elizabeth would keep the situation under wraps, Darcy is much more likely to. Even if probed, it is hard to imagine him sharing what is probably the most personally private, painful, and humuliating details of being turned down."}, {"response": 151, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (10:46)", "body": "I agree that Darcy would not willingly discuss the events w/ his cousin. However, I do think that the good Colonel would notice that Darcy was under some emotional strain. He tells Elizabeth that Darcy has put off their departure date at least once, so he might start to put 2 and 2 together."}, {"response": 152, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:47)", "body": "I think that Fitzwilliam was likely to notice Darcy's state of mind because they were together immediately after the proposal, when Darcy was still in a state of turmoil. Jane didn't see Lizzy until several weeks later, by which time she had gotten her feelings under control."}, {"response": 153, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (11:15)", "body": "You all are probably right as far as the book is concerned. But in any of the P&P dramatizations, when anyone even mentions \"Mr. Darcy\" around Lizzy after Proposal #1, she acts like she's going to burst out of her skin! So I'm going to accord Jane the sensitivity of realizing that something is amiss if her own sister is acting so jumpy! I'm referring particuarly to when Lydia spills the beans about Darcy being the Best Man at her wedding. Listen to the way Ehle says: \"Mr. _Darcy_?\" And all of her agon zing about losing his good opinion in P&P2."}, {"response": 154, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (14:59)", "body": "I'm with you Amy2, Jane must have suspected something, anything, Lizzy was way to obvious. But what strikes me though is that Jane looks like she just doesn't get it, no reactions, no questions, no implied allusions to anything. Only perhaps her slight smile when Lizzy says Darcy was there when she received news of Lydia's elopment."}, {"response": 155, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (17:49)", "body": "Also, Jane's reaction when Bingley and Darcy return to Hertfordshire and call on the Bennet's. She has too much of a smile on her face if she still thinks Lizzy doesn't care for Darcy."}, {"response": 156, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "Jane was basically incapable of suspicion - and also, at the time of Bingley's return to Netherfield, much too preoccupied with her own feelings and emotions to be particularly observant of anyone else's."}, {"response": 157, "author": "sld", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (20:50)", "body": "[ So I'm going to accord Jane the sensitivity of realizing that something is amiss if her own sister is acting so jumpy!] In the book, what Jane did know was a) Elizabeth turned down the proposal; b) that Elizabeth was uncomfortable about having prejudged Mr. Darcy; and when Darcy was coming to Longbourn with Bingley, that Elizabeth was about to face the guy she turned down. Jane could have attrubuted Elizebeth's nervousness to these things."}, {"response": 158, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (10:57)", "body": "Did Jane know that Lizzy had already bumped into Mr. Darcy at Pemberley? Or was everyone too caught up in the Lydia Fiasco at that point to mention it?"}, {"response": 159, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (11:36)", "body": "Yes, Lizzie told Jane. Jane's reply \"Mr. Darcy knows of our troubles\"? Lizzie \"He happen upon me while I was reading your letter\"."}, {"response": 160, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "But I do not believe that Lizzy said this in the book. Lizzy tells Jane very little of what happened at Pemberley, because she does not want to mention Bingley's name. When Lizzy tells Jane that she & Darcy are engaged, Jane ends their dialogue saying, \"But Lizzy, you have been very sly, very reserved with me. How little did you tell me of what passed at Pemberley and Lambton! I owe all that I know of it, to another, not to you.\" Then Lizzy shares the information about Darcy helping Lydia."}, {"response": 161, "author": "sld", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (19:17)", "body": "[I owe all that I know of it, to another, not to you.] I always thought this 'other' was Bingley, although it could have been Aunt Gardiner. Before this, Jane had said somthing to the effect of she and Bingley had talked of the possibility of an Elizabeth/Darcy combination, but had decided it not possible. What do you think?"}, {"response": 162, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb 11, 1997 (19:42)", "body": "I think Jane meant that she had heard about Lizzie being at Pemberley from Bingley after their engagement. Which would have led them to talk about Darcy and Lizzie, and Jane probably telling Bingley that Lizzie didn't care for Darcy and that it was impossible. She didn't see the Gardiners after her engagement and there was no mention of her writing to them, so I think JA intended us to believe it was Bingley who was this 'other'."}, {"response": 163, "author": "Karen", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (02:47)", "body": "Yes, I agree that the 'other' is Bingley. In the second part of the novel (after Pemberley), Lizzy has no one to confide in and wrestles with her feelings for Darcy by herself."}, {"response": 164, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (11:22)", "body": "I do like the fact that Jane serves as more of a confidante in P&PII than she does in the book. It makes Lizzie's struggles less lonely (and more dramatic)."}, {"response": 165, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "Amy2, it would have been very boring if they hadn't made Jane Lizzie's confidante in P&PII--it would have meant Lizzie sitting by herself and talking to herself. That's where AD did such a good job of translating thoughts into talk. I liked it too."}, {"response": 166, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (23:10)", "body": "Absolutely. We got to avoid all voiceovers (a pet peeve of mine)."}, {"response": 167, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "Not all voiceovers are a Bad Thing. They can be used very effectively. Some examples that leap to mind: Regina Taylor's in I'll Fly Away - the voice of the adult \"Kevin\" in The Wonder Years - Claire Danes' and others in My So-Called Life - Scully's in last week's episode of X-files - but they can also easily be overused, and given the percentage of plot in P&P that took place in letters and private thinking, using voice over for these would result in a very static pro uction - and was one of the flaws in the screenplay in P&P1."}, {"response": 168, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (22:02)", "body": "Not all voiceovers are a Bad Thing. They can be used very effectively. Some examples that leap to mind: Regina Taylor's in I'll Fly Away - the voice of the adult \"Kevin\" in The Wonder Years - Claire Danes' and others in My So-Called Life - Scully's in last week's episode of X-files - but they can also easily be overused, and given the percentage of plot in P&P that took place in letters and private thinking, using voice over for these would result in a very sta ic production - and was one of the flaws in the screenplay in P&P1."}, {"response": 169, "author": "elder", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Joan, too -- was the second posting the voiceover? ;=p"}, {"response": 170, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Feb 13, 1997 (23:37)", "body": "Yes, and I think it was read by James Earl Jones. I guess I was thinking of that horrific voiceover in BLADE RUNNER when Harrison Ford sounded as thrilled to deliver the lines as we were to hear them. And many bad & terrible sf films make use of this device; to wit, DUNE."}, {"response": 171, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (05:08)", "body": "was the second posting the voiceover? ;=p hee hee hee - must have been... I cannot account for it otherwise. The Ghost Poster strikes again."}, {"response": 172, "author": "Karen", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (15:33)", "body": "To those who love romance, help me. As I watch P&P2 for the umpteenth time, I am desparately searching for the romance in the dance between Lizzy and Darcy at Netherfield. When he asks her to dance, he seems anxious and even slightly pleasant. However, during the dance he is so severe! He only smiles ever so slightly when he asks Lizzy about walking to Meryton with her sisters. Most of his other responses are extremely sarcastic. For some reason in these scenes at Netherfield, he frightens me."}, {"response": 173, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "He makes me want to hit him over the head with a bat."}, {"response": 174, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "I was vexed with this scene as well, Karen and Kali. I wish they had included more of the novel here: \" she made some slight observationon the dance. He replied, and was again silent. After a pause . . she addressed him a second time with 'It is your turn to say something now . . .' He smiled , and assured her that whatever she wished him to say should be said.\" Also, in the novel they have more of a conversation after Sir William interrupts them, including Darcy trying to make small talk (about books!). So he wasn't a complete stick/jerk at this point in the book. Ahh, well, I shall reread the book with visions of Darcy/Firth in my head."}, {"response": 175, "author": "kate", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (18:55)", "body": "But do you realise that this is first time they actually touch in P&P2? I mean admitedly she's wearing gloves, but they do get to hold hands..."}, {"response": 176, "author": "sld", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (20:26)", "body": "[ but they do get to hold hands...] And after the dance, they hold hands as he escorts her to the side of the room - ooohhhh, aaaaahh! I think Davies probable means for us to see Darcys' manner two different ways at two different times. One way initially, when he asks her and they dance, and then in a new light much later, after we know he ardently admires and loves her. When we look back on it, we can then attribute his manner to being REALLY, REALLY nervous about approaching her (thus he does so hurriedly and stiffly - with his heart probably in his throat); and during the dance he just doesn't know HOW to begin a conversatio , and is a little afraid to (but all the while he is probable wracking his brains for something meaningful to say). When I look back on it, I really feel for the guy."}, {"response": 177, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb 14, 1997 (22:41)", "body": "He also is torn between very much wanting to dance with her, and not wanting to. He is falling in love, but he doesn't want to be. That tension is acute during the dance."}, {"response": 178, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (00:18)", "body": "He also is torn between very much wanting to dance with her, and not wanting to. He is falling in love, but he doesn't want to be. That tension is acute during the dance. Ann, I think your definition is closer to my feeling. Darcy can't stand to not be with her, but he is also very ambivalent about his feelings for her. I thought this scene showed that very well."}, {"response": 179, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (00:21)", "body": "Karen: As I watch P&P2 for the umpteenth time, I am desparately searching for the romance in the dance between Lizzy and Darcy at Netherfield. I don't see much romance here either, but I do shudder deliciously at the erotic suggestion in this very formal dance. L & D are still battling it out, as they had earlier during Lizzy's stay at Netherfield, but their sparring is now shown in physical terms, and the sparks flying between this gorgeous, strong-willed man and woman make the dance sexier than any waltz would have been. Even though their relationship doesn't \"progress\" in this scene, I love the contrast between the way they join hands at th beginning and at the end: when they start, their gloved hands reach the camera at the same moment, and you think of drawn swords. At the end, Darcy extends his hand to Lizzy in such a gentle way, and she accepts it so quietly, that you know that there is going to be more of this in the future. As Sharon says, \"ooohhhh, aaaaahh!\" When he asks her to dance, he seems anxious and even slightly pleasant. However, during the dance he is so severe! I think we've discussed this before, but this is mostly Lizzy's fault. Even Davies's truncated dialog has Lizzy being deliberately pert and provoking. Poor Darcy didn't stand a chance."}, {"response": 180, "author": "Karen", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (20:10)", "body": "Anne3 - \"I think we've discussed this before, but this is mostly Lizzy's fault. Even Davies's truncated dialog has Lizzy being deliberately pert and provoking. Poor Darcy didn't stand a chance.\" I know she is provoking him but he is not amused. Even at Netherfield (before the ball), he would occassionally smile after he'd make a harsh remark. At the ball, he keeps rolling his eyes at everything she says. I have to agree with Kali's comment (about hitting him) and Kathleen's comment (following the novel more closely and have him nicer). If he were a bit nicer at times (flashing the camera a devilish, little grin and then go back to trying to be composed), I could have felt that he was tornup a out his feelings."}, {"response": 181, "author": "sld", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (21:26)", "body": "Rolling his eyes?"}, {"response": 182, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (10:59)", "body": "] He only smiles ever so slightly when he asks Lizzy about walking to Meryton with her sisters. __ I know this whole \"On foot?\" thing was not in the book. But it does fit Darcy. When Firth gives that little smile of amusement, I am torn between hating Darcy for ridiculing Lizzy, and somehow finding the amusement strangely exciting. Why should this be so?"}, {"response": 183, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (12:20)", "body": "Karen: I know she is provoking him but he is not amused. Even at Netherfield (before the ball), he would occassionally smile after he'd make a harsh remark. Expecting Darcy to be amused assumes that he should find Lizzy's raillery to be cute rather than annoying. In the book, everything is told through Lizzy's consciousness, so we find her remarks as adorable as she finds them herself. Remember, though, that she later learns how wrong she was, how unfair to Darcy and indulgent to herself. She says, \"I meant to be uncommonly clever in taking so decided a dislike to him, without any reason. It is such a spur to one's genius, such an opening for wit to have dislike of that kind.\" If Darcy hadn't been so infatuated with her, he would have been quite justified in being annoyed at her constant verbal jabs. Darcy's smiles, in the book, were I think Austen's way of showing us his feelings, since she doesn't make us privy to them in any other way. In the film, Davies chose to show Darcy's feelings in other ways."}, {"response": 184, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "Regarding Mr. Darcy's smiles: In the book...when Lizzie is at Pemberly and sees Mr. Darcy's portrait, \"and she beheld a striking resemblance of Mr. Darcy, with such a smile over the face, as she remembered to have sometimes seen when he looked at her.\" austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 88, "subject": "ONE Question for Jane Austen", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "mich", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (22:56)", "body": "I know I'm dull but... What happened to Darcy & Lizzie, Duckface and the rest? What happened to Anne and Captian W? Did Annes family finally get what they deserved?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "geekman", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (05:49)", "body": "\"Who inspired you to create Fanny Price?\" (Don't worry HC, no offence meant)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (11:13)", "body": "My question to Austen would be: \"Could you bequeath me 1/64th of your genius?\""}, {"response": 4, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (12:39)", "body": "By the way, here's her nephew James Edward Austen-Leigh's report of what Jane Austen told her family about the characters in the novels... \"She would, if asked, tell us many little particulars about the subsequent career of some of her people. In this traditionary way we learned that Miss Steele never succeeded in catching the Doctor; that Kitty Bennet was satisfactorily married to a clergyman near Pemberley, while Mary obtained nothing higher than one of her uncle Philips' clerks, and was content to be considered a star in the society of Meriton; that the ``considerable sum'' given by Mrs. Norris to William Price was one pound; that Mr. Woodhouse survived his daughter's marriage, and kept her and Mr. Knightley from settling at Donw ll, about two years; and that the letters placed by Frank Churchill before Jane Fairfax, which she swept away unread, contained the word ``pardon''. Of the good people in Northanger Abbey and Persuasion we know nothing more than what is written: for before those works were published their author had been taken away from us, and all such amusing communications had ceased for ever.\" In addition, there's also the tradition that she said Jane Fairfax only lived eight or nine years after her marriage to Frank, and wasn't emntirely happy..."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Dina", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (17:52)", "body": "The question I would want her to answer would be one she would possibly not even answer to Cassandra (o.k. HC, I admit it, I have yet to read those letters) who would probably have better manners than to even ask it: Why did you never marry? Or how much of Persuasion was autobiographical?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (10:56)", "body": "Does anyone remember the details of Lefroy, reputed to be her suitor?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (11:28)", "body": "I have some details on Jane Austen's reputed suitors in the AUSTEN-L \"Pre-FAQ\" at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/pre-faq.txt And also in the Jane Austen biography file at: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janelife.html Note: The uts.cc.utexas.edu machine will be down over the next day or so... austentest conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 9, "subject": "Ramble", "response_count": 511, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (17:59)", "body": "I've been holed up here all day but I don't have cabin fever. I love it at my place. It's night time. Outside it's drizzling. I've been building new boxes to put on the net, reading, studying and writing today. The evening news is on the tube. I feel like making a pot of coffee. I keep getting a box on my screen that says my outbox in Microsoft Mail is damaged. My outbox is empty! I got some interesting email from Elizabeth Gipps, an old friend today. And that's part of my world tonight."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Saman", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (18:02)", "body": "I can't believe I'm actually doing this - I usually steer clear of such threads :). But then this has not been a typical day! I baked muffins for the first time in my life (my mother is slightly obsessive about anyone cooking in her kitchen, but she's w orking at the moment) and they were a success. Hey I'm doing better than the Bennet girls - they couldn't cook. I also just got rudely interrupted from my spring-browsing by a door-to-door salesman wanting to give me a voucher for 20 free meals - only I'd have to pay $30 for it! I blame Neil Finn for it all. Huh? I hear you say. Mr Finn was lead vocalist for Crowded House - my all-time favourite band who announced they were breaking up in June. Their final charity concert on the steps of the Sydney Opera House was televised he re on Sunday, and I'm am currently slowly working my way through a grieving process involving contimuous playing of all my Crowded House CDs - maybe that's why the salesman looked happy to depart. Top that people!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (18:08)", "body": "Tough to top. The only rule in this topic is that are no rules and that you can talk about anything and everything . Total free form."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (18:58)", "body": "During my one excursion outside, I acquired a stud finder and 16 yards of unbleached muslin. Prize for the most creative use of these wares."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (19:20)", "body": "Hope you find that stud. I'm kicked back watching the music awards on Fox. And I'm scanning in some ancient family photos of my Norwegian relatives in Minnesota. I'm building sort of a family album web page for my folks and family at Christmas. It's my life story too. Dishwalla's playing on the tube."}, {"response": 6, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (20:47)", "body": "Moody Blues boxed set CD is playing (the poetry is a bit surreal), and I just finished making up an algebra exam to give to my students tomorrow. I have not had time to browse here since Saturday evening, and I must say that I have missed all of you. I skipped (church) choir rehearsal to relax this evening, so I suppose I feel a bit guilty. Saman, congrats on the muffins. It has been an absolute age since I used my kitchen stoves to do anything other than heat soup or cook frozen dinners! As soon as the semester is over, I will go to San Diego for a week over Christmas -- mom and one brother's family out there. I plan to take the S&S video to share w/ mom."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (21:23)", "body": "Moody Blues. Santana was just on the music awards getting the Century Billboard award. Only George Harrison and three others have ever won this award. Still scanning pictures and working on some website proposals. I've got 4 computers hooked up to a switchbox here and I'm flipping from one to another. Bastrop Internet Services is working on building up the new server, I popped another 20mb of memory in it last night and Scott's putting NT 4.0 on it. I don't know if it's back on line yet. Their website is http://www.bastrop.net Tomorrow, Matt is going to build up a new primary server to replace http://access.spring.com which bit the dust. I got a 2mb hard drive to replace the 1 gigger that went down. The rains have past. It's quiet out in Cedar Creek, like it always is. I wonder what Amy's doing tonight."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (03:41)", "body": "Amy slept for a change -- but awoke at 4 am"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (06:13)", "body": "Good morning Amy, it's 6 am here and you've already been up for two hours, are you ever bright eyed and bushy tailed today! I'm going in to Austin today to take care of lots of business and things that are piling up. I've got to get that contract going with Texaltel (see projects) and get that machine to Matt (to replace the server that crashed) and a bunch of friends are meeting at pub on 6th street tonight. We had some interesting comments in one of the NetMeeting topics yesterday (not the one that's linked to here) and you may want to check them out in the 'apps' conference. Did you know that if you hit the 'enter' key twice that you will get a menu here if you're in a shell? But only about half the menus work so far. I'm writing shell scripts to do a whole bunch of things. Is anyone here good at writing shell scripts?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (11:33)", "body": "Even though I won't be online for the next 8 hours. I left my microphone aimed at my radio. So you may be able to hear me talking to other folks if you connect to me on NetMeeting."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (11:34)", "body": "Here are some of the pictures I scanned: http://www.spring.com/~terry/albumjpg/ And me as a baby: http://www.spring.com/~terry/albumjpg/terry2.JPG"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (19:49)", "body": "I have to start making Christmas cookies and wrapping presents. I would like to get most of this done while my \"the little angels\" are in school. I will be very busy during the morning hours. Every year I say I will not go crazy but every YEAR we do. Oh w ell, \"tis the seasons to be joLly, fa,la,la,la,la,la,la\" * *** ***** ******* ********* *********** *** ***"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (19:58)", "body": "1 \"Merry Christmas\" 232 \"Happy New Year\" 34443 4555544 566666665 67777777776 7888888888887 101"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (19:59)", "body": "I guess half a tree is better then none. HO! HO!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (20:37)", "body": "HO!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (22:28)", "body": "I have to make it down to see the tree of lights in Zilker Park. See my comments in the food conference about my wonderful dinner tonight."}, {"response": 17, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (22:51)", "body": "I'm having a hard time finding any holiday spirit this year. I usually enjoy gift giving and all the events but Novemeber has worn me out. Someone remind me what's it like to have a life outside of work. Donna, could you pls send a little of your xmas spirit my way? I'm in grave need. Mich"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (23:03)", "body": "Sure Mich, no, problem it will be a \"surprise\""}, {"response": 19, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (13:45)", "body": "D'Arcy or Pemberley shape cookies anyone ? Donna, you already got some gifts ? Got to get them before the usual 24-hour-prior-to-Xmas-day. And it is a major plus to have kids, they really put you in the spirit don't they. Almost no choice but to feel it. My trick for the past years, particularly when all I had was a job and friends at the other corner of the earth, was to give time to needy causes (filling baskets of food. Nothing like seeing a two/three year old receiving is only plush teddy. Even if my situation as quite change, I remained faithfull to this commitment and it makes me feel great. Sending you my warmest wishes of joy and happiness, mich."}, {"response": 20, "author": "cat", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (18:40)", "body": "Not a good day today. Two girls in my homeroom were making fun of my friend Tara because she is skinny and short. They called her a Balemic Monkey (I dan't know if thats spellled right). They spread nasty rumors about her for absolutly no reason. They threw her books in the garbage, STOLE a few of her belongings, and on top of all that they threw away her BIBLE!! I am sooooooo pissed off right now. We also lost our game by ONE piont. It was a good game. I am not going to get any sleep tonite becaus John has invited 4 friends to sleep over. They are all loud and abnoxious (forgive spelling)."}, {"response": 21, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (20:18)", "body": "Cat, hope you were able to give Tara some support and comfort. At a time like that one really needs one's friends. Insecure young people can be so hard on one another. (And some of them never do grow out of it and become Caroline Bingleys!)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (23:27)", "body": "They should have a class in grade school/high school to teach people how to to love each other"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (23:38)", "body": "But Donna, I believe that this is what parents are for?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (09:34)", "body": "Cheryl sometimes that is not enough."}, {"response": 25, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (18:01)", "body": "People can just be so nasty to each other it disgusting! Tara was hysterical all day yesterday! I feel so bad as if I've done something awful. I feel so helpless! I want to comfort her but I can't. She is too upset. Things like this have been going on since fifth grade with her! I thought people in their last year of high school would at least be mature enough not to do that sort of thing. I hope she can forgive them. I hope I can forgive them. It is times like this to where the only way I can f rgive is when I look back and remember what Jesus did for me. Even though we laughed at Him, spat on Him, beat Him, and even killed the Messiah, the son of God, He asked His Father to forgive us all. He could have just jumped off that cross and destroye d all mankind with the snap of a finger but He didn't. He did not want to die but He loved us all so much. He wanted us to be with Him in paradise when we leave our earthly bodies. We do not deserve His love, but He gives it willingly. For those who a e offended by this message I am sorry for invading your beliefs."}, {"response": 26, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (18:01)", "body": "People can just be so nasty to each other it disgusting! Tara was hysterical all day yesterday! I feel so bad as if I've done something awful. I feel so helpless! I want to comfort her but I can't. She is too upset. Things like this have been going on since fifth grade with her! I thought people in their last year of high school would at least be mature enough not to do that sort of thing. I hope she can forgive them. I hope I can forgive them. It is times like this to where the only way I can f rgive is when I look back and remember what Jesus did for me. Even though we laughed at Him, spat on Him, beat Him, and even killed the Messiah, the son of God, He asked His Father to forgive us all. He could have just jumped off that cross and destroye d all mankind with the snap of a finger but He didn't. He did not want to die but He loved us all so much. He wanted us to be with Him in paradise when we leave our earthly bodies. We do not deserve His love, but He gives it willingly. For those who a e offended by this message I am sorry for invading your beliefs."}, {"response": 27, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (18:02)", "body": "I thought I hit that button once. Sorry."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (18:56)", "body": "I spent the night waiting in a hospital emergency room....the victim is home and doing well, but meanwhile, I now feel like I am the one who need a doctor's care..... in an unrelated incident, I hit someone's car (black ice...nothing I could do)....my son 's snake is loose in the basement (Indiana Jones and I have similar feelings about vipers;I am contemplating a move to the Hilton)....I have to turn out a shepherd costume for my son by Monday or the PTA gestapo will come after me......On Sunday, I must s epherd a bunch of cub scouts carolling at a nursing home; only threats of bodily harm will get them to behave like angels(Hope the elderly won't notice the 'Batman smells' version of Jingle Bells).....my house looks like a sewer....by way of holiday decor ating,I'm thinking of stringing lights on the pumpkins that have frozen to the front porch......and friends keep wondering why I spit at the TV every time an ad for the Martha Stewart Christmas special comes on. Sorry to ramble, but just wanted to let you know it has been a typical week in the House of Grace. Ho, Ho, Ho! P.S. Amy, if you really want to find that stud, I would advise AGAINST using all 16 yards of the muslin....try working with 2 or 3 yards to make some low-cut little number that will hammer home the right message....be sure to wear that WonderBra (or if y ou don't have one, duct tape works the same kind of Wonders) ;-)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:17)", "body": "] I hit someone's car (black ice...nothing I could do)... ___ Oh Grace. How awful for you. Do treat yourself to the Hilton. Why not? And popcorn and champaign and P&P tomorrow. Can I come over?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:46)", "body": "Oh dear, Grace! Who is the \"victim\" and of what, if the black ice was an unrelated incident? ANd what variety of snake is loose? Fear not - in general, many snakes make very good pets and many others are of an extremely shy and retiring character and u nlikely to do anything to anyone unless provoked. When in junior high I was one of a group of kids who \"volunteered\" at the museum, and among our duties were, every two weeks, if there were no live mice available with which to feed the snakes, to force-f ed them hamburger, which they would not eat on their own, preferring their food alive. So two of us took on each snake, one holding the mouth open and the other poking the hamburger inside - then we had to hold its mouth shut till it swallowed the bite. The experience really stripped the poor snakes of all dignity and ability to inspire fear. Joan, too"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (20:40)", "body": "Joan, the victim of last night's hospital escapade was my husband....he had gone to a Detroit Pistons game and was done in by a hot dog.....a piece lodged in his esophagus.......only with an ambulance, drugs, and a surgeon now behind us,and the victim fee ling much better, can I even dream of talking about the whole thing. (My husband was at the game with friends, one of whom is a thoracic surgeon and the other, a pediatrician. I'm left to wonder where they were during this whole thing!) My husband is a man of few words but because of this incident, those few are down to NONE, and he has to lecture on Monday. My son assures me that the snake missing from his collection is a milk snake...but I think this is a conspiracy to paint images of some benign creature hiding down there rather than a horrible lurking monster. (I am the only person on the block with cans of carnivorous snake food and freeze-dried crickets in her refrigerator - Woe to the guest innocently looking for a midnight snack.) Be assured that we are all now doing well.....and the HIlton says they do offer special rates for extended stays. Grace"}, {"response": 32, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (23:40)", "body": "Re: 59:31 - what a nasty and scary experience. One would have thought that in the company he was in, he'd have been in good hands! My husband is a man of few words but because of this incident, those few are down to NONE, and he has to lecture on Monday.\" Hopefully the swelling will have gone down at least somewhat by then. And if not, tell him to borrow a PowerBook, feed it a SimpleText textfile and let MacInTalk read it for him. [grin] I am the only person on the block with cans of carnivorous snake food and freeze-dried crickets in her refrigerator For a year or two I had siamese fighting fish, and was the only one on my block with live brine shrimp tubifex worms in my refrigerator. Equally disgusting- especially the tubifex worms! Joan, too"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (21:54)", "body": "You beat me to it with the muslin, Grace. I'm glad you and your husband are okay."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Grace", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (07:22)", "body": "About beating you to it with the muslin, Hilary.......I couldn't help myself; Amy gave us an opening that was 'sew' inviting. (By the way,I threw in the duct tape just to please you.) If I had been smart, I would have gotten Amy to whip up my shepherd costume with the extra yardage and send it by overnight mail. The family survived a difficult week....I was just beginning to feel optimistic about life again.....and then I went to that party last night at the home of a Martha Stewart clone...... which was enough to plunge this hapless homemaker into endless depres sion! So begins another week."}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (07:35)", "body": "I'm off to work this morning. I had a nice weekend. We had very pleasant weather here in Austin. I started topic 82 in hopes that some of you will email folks that are interested in the Spring. If you find someone to your liking in topic 82, please email them and let them know they are most welcome here on the Spring. This would be most appreciated. I finished tape one of P&P and am part way in to tape two. I'm savoring the experience of seeing these tapes!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (14:47)", "body": "Who is Martha Stewart? Should I know? Thanks for the virtual ducktape! I should really use some round here - three of our 11 ducklings have died, probably at the beak of our drake. What we will do when we go away is a problem. Saw Jackson Browne and Bonnie Raitt last night. JB was enjoyable, ultra smooth, BR was WONDERFUL, great voice, fantastic blues slide electric guitar, and one raunchy lady."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Grace", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (15:06)", "body": "Martha is the US doyenne of elegant entertaining. 'She' is an empire...does TV specials, has books by the dozen, her own magazine -Martha Stewart Living, and a catalog of upscale merchandise. People either adore her, or, as in my case, live to make fun o f her. Diane White, a columnist at the Boston Globe, has for years kept up an anti-Martha campaign. Martha parody books are a hot item for Christmas around here. Jackson Browne AND Bonnie Raitt? Wow."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (15:23)", "body": "quote for the day \"Boring Women Have Immaculate Homes\" (from my fridge magnet)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (16:40)", "body": "Hil, my nearly dead nap page has a Jackson Brown song as its theme song: http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wno.html"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (16:42)", "body": "Donna, tell your story about meeting Hornsby in the music conference, and I will tell about Mellencamp? Did we not tell each other we met them while pregnant?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (17:44)", "body": "Amy, do you mean the music conference here at spring? I haven't got beyond here yet. 'Running on Empty' is a great song, BTW. Sorry it is applicable to your nap page, though. Or are you happy its run its course? Just musing that its 16 years since John Lennon died. I still get sad about it. 'And so this is Chrismas, and what have you done, Another year over, a new one just begun'.... And Joni's still ricochetting around in my head: Its coming on Christmas They're cutting down trees They're putting up reindeer And singing songs of joy and peace. I wish I had a river I could skate away on...."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (18:46)", "body": "] Just musing that its 16 years since John Lennon died. ___ I happened to be in New York just after the murder and went to the Park for the vigil. I will never for get it."}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:25)", "body": "I love those old Joni Mitchell songs!!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "jane", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (23:09)", "body": "Hilary, I am so glad that Martha Stewart has not poisoned Australia yet. If she stages a coup and completely takes over here (she decorated the White House last year on her Christma she knows her way around), Grace, Anna and the rest of us may have to co me and hide out at your place. Jane"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (23:37)", "body": "Jane - I am in Australia :)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (23:52)", "body": "... at a safe distance from Martha Stewart."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (01:07)", "body": "I am no where near even the fringe of the nieghborhood of Christmas Cheer. I have baked no cookies, I have sent no cards, I have bought no presents, I have not decorated my house (I did decorate my piano studio for my students, but that's all.) I am up to my eyeballs in Christmas in everything I do but none of it has affected me. This is the busiest time for musicians, everyone wants special Christmas programs- I have 9 more events in addition to my regularly packed schedule in the next two weeks. I a so busy \"Making Christmas Bright\" for everyone else that I have none left for myself. An occupational hazard, I know, and in the past I've always been able to rise above it, but not this year. The only day I can even see a few open hours to shop is Dec . 23, and I get the heebie jeebies just thinking about entering a mall two days before Christmas! Santa, help me!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (09:23)", "body": "Anna, I realized after I posted my message that I was only guessing that you were within reach of Martha's clutches. That gives the rest of us another potential refulge! Cheryl, I am in a similar boat, not as busy so less of an excuse for failure to make cookies, decorate, shop. My husband is out of town this week so I am with our 2-year old--I tried to go shopping but had to chase her around, and ended up spending a few hours at the mall buying only stuff for her. But here's a shopping tip that I found out about on the Austen-L, and bought for my aunt. Blockbuster has, for $29.99, Persuasion and Sense and Sensibility packaged together. The problem is, it is probably better present for you than for anyone you know! Jane P.S. Music is such a great part of Christmas---at least you can enjoy your work!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (09:24)", "body": "It is funny how the weather changes here in Oulu, Finland. In the morning it is quite warm (about +2 degrees centigrade, which is warm this time of the year), and there's little water in the streets. In the evening, returning home, you have to walk through several inches (20 in worst cases) of snow, and the temperature is -15 degrees C. I have to get used to it. Usually it has been -20 and 20 inches of snow all the time. The worst point is that it is VERY slippery... Hope I'll live through Xmas, I'll visit my parents and eat well... And have a decent sauna, with my mother's healing spells. We belong to a family of witches, after all."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (09:57)", "body": "Real witches, Mixu? Tell. Jane, just think. Unless you are going to have more kids, it gets easier every second with the little ones. Today you can't shop. In another few months you will be able to avert your eyes for a few more seconds at a time to attend to what you need. Amy"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Grace", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (10:27)", "body": "Re 59:32 Joan, just wanted to let you know that my husband was able to croak his way through Monday's lecture and everything went well. (I had dragged him over to read your solution, he got quite a kick out of it.... and said to tell you thanks!) Grace P.S. This madhouse I live in also boasts siamese fighting fish....but we don't spoil ours with the worms you mentioned."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Grace", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (10:36)", "body": "Re 59:38 Anna, what an inspirational fridge magnet...BORING WOMEN HAVE IMMACULATE HOMES......I'd love to put one on my fridge but I find the dirt layer keeps magnets from sticking......time to buy a new fridge, I guess!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (13:04)", "body": "Hil, Re: Running on Empty 59:32 (Joan I am getting to like this notation) Did the MIDI link work for you? Amy"}, {"response": 54, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (14:16)", "body": "Re: 59:51 - Grace - glad he enjoyed it. :-) If you don't have to \"do\" tubifex worms, you must have a reliable supply of live brine shrimp - mine were too picky to eat the feeeze-dried ones. Amy, re: 59:53 - using the numbers is better than nothing, but not nearly as good as an automatically created link! For example, \"Re: Running on Empty 59:32\" - \"32\" is not about MIDI - it's about tubifex worms. (It's too easy to copy the wrong numbers! - especially for those of us who are numerically challenged! I count myself as one of these, having scored in the 4th percentile in a math aptitude test.) I have been playing around in the redisplay box below and have discovered that to go back just to a referred-to response, typing in \"32-32\" will get just that one response (which is how I knew that it was tubifex worms). And that typing a negative number , say \"-4\", will show just the last 4 responses."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (15:47)", "body": "] And that typing a negative number, say \"-4\", will show just the last 4 responses. ___ That might be handy."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (17:19)", "body": "\"Blockbuster has, for $29.99, Persuasion and Sense and Sensibility packaged together\" Thank you! I just called my local Blockbuster and they have it - and my husband is going x-mas shopping tomorrow night. Guess what just made it to the top of my list?!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (06:48)", "body": "I'm busier than you can imagine, and will be till the weekend. Keep the home fires burning Amy!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (07:01)", "body": "Mixu, have you discovered 'austen' yet? You're in for a treat!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (18:11)", "body": "I lost my wallet! This must be the worst time of year to be without credit cards."}, {"response": 60, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (19:13)", "body": "Gosh, sorry to hear this Ann. Is there any chance of retrieving it? Where did you lose it?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (22:41)", "body": "Oh Dear - you have my deepest sympathy. This time last year I had mine stolen. Had to stop and change everything - including house and car locks, since there were spares for both car and house in the wallet, and had no ID. Then about 3 weeks later a ma il carrier found it in the bushes in a neighboring community - everything there but the cash."}, {"response": 62, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:44)", "body": "Subject: \"software\" Last year, my friend upgraded his GirlFriend3.1 to GirlFriendPlus1.0 (marketing name: Fiancee1.0). Recently he upgraded Fiancee1.0 to Wife1.0 and it's a memory hogger, has taken all his space; and Wife1.0 must be running before he can do anything. Althoug h he didn't ask for them, Wife1.0 came with plug-ins such as MotherInLaw and BrotherInLaw. Some features I'd like to see in the upcoming GirlFriend4.0... - A \"Don't remind me again\" button - Minimize button - Shutdown feature - An installshield feature so that Girlfriend4.0 can be completely uninstalled if so desired (so you don't lose cache and other objects) I tried running Girlfriend 2.0 with Girlfriend 1.0 still installed, they tried using the same I/O port and conflicted. Then I tried to uninstall Girlfriend 1.0 but it didn't have an uninstall program. I tried to unstall it by hand, but it put files in m y system directory. Another thing that sucks -- in all versions of Girlfriend that I've used is that it is totally \"object orientated\" and only supports hardware with gold plated contacts. ***** BUG WARNING ******** Wife 1.0 has an undocumented bug. If you try to install Mistress 1.1 before uninstalling Wife 1.0, Wife 1.0 will delete MSMoney files before doing the uninstall itself. Then Mistress 1.1 will refuse to install, claiming insufficient resources. passing along funnies for the day. Mich"}, {"response": 63, "author": "drymartini", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (16:14)", "body": "Amy, #4 response. I got ahold of a stud finder once. It was recommended by Norm Abrams, I think. Well, I figured this device would soon have me in touch with one or more outstanding specimens of manhood. Unfortunately, the device was not a stud finder at all. It was a turkey caller. I guess the items got mixed up in the display; this happens at flea markets. As a turkey caller it was effective. Several real losers showed up and asked me for a date. A week later I donated the turkey caller to the Chamber of Commerce because they were holding their annual Sport-o-rama and there was to be a turkey calling contest. At the height of the contest, my ex flew in from Texas. So I know the turkey caller worked properly, when used by an expert. As for the bolt of unbleached muslin, you could make several sets of sheets. 108\" X 90\" for standard flat sheets, I think. That's after the hems. It's good to have plenty on hand if your stud finder works well. Keep us all posted, hear?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (16:57)", "body": "Amy, I could get through to click on \"Running on empty\" but then it just gave me coded screen messages, it didn't play anything."}, {"response": 65, "author": "trainmaster", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (08:06)", "body": "I'm new on this, but after reading this I don't feel so bad. Christmas is kind of a bummer this year. Both daughers left home this summer, and the house is empty. I have a new granddaughter in Germany that I haven't got to hold yet.So am not really in t he Christmas spirit yet. My best to all of you. As for Martha Stewart, I wish she was real. No one can be that creative all the the time. I think she is a defense department robot that went haywire. Have a happy holiday to all, and to all a good nig t!"}, {"response": 66, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (11:19)", "body": "That explains Martha Stewart! No wonder."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (17:11)", "body": "I found a nice #7 sable brush half covered with mud under a pine tree during my walk. I think it is a present."}, {"response": 68, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (20:20)", "body": "I called Scott Holman over at BIS and he got the dedicated ip to resolve. But that's another topic. I've been rambling around the house today, cleaning and organizing. I started today driving through the fog to a breakfast at IHOP. As they say around town, 'onward through the fog'. I feel like going out for a night time walk."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Kennebec", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (23:35)", "body": "Hmm. Been pretty noisy today. Attended #1 son's play off basketball game (we won), took same son Christmas shopping (he was miserable), went to my 91 year old grammies for a real baked bean supper (we go every Saturday night), came home around 10:00 to complete chaos. #1 Daughter crying because Dad had carted her away from 3 boys & 2 girls spell TROUBLE. (She is 14 and was horribly embarassed. One of the boys had been RUDE. Dad didn't like it. Parents call. Apologies. More howling. Daughter VERY MAD not at Rude Boy, no, Mad at Dad for intefering) This is the only quiet spot in the whole house (and it's already Sunday). By the way, I agreed with Dad and not Daughter and am trying to convince her that her 'friend' owes her a BIG apology. That the whole incident is really about respect and dignity. Being a parent is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life."}, {"response": 70, "author": "Mlydle", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (23:46)", "body": "Well, me and significant other were going out to eat when we decided to go by 15 year old stepson's fathers house (who is out of town) to check it out. Stepson was supposed to be spending the night at a friends house. Seems we had a idea that stepson mi ght be up to something. When we drove up to the house there were and wife unit walked in, about 50-75 adolescents scurried out of the house. The house was full of beer, liquer etc.. When it was time to go stepson had set it up where one of his friends icked him up and he left. We chased after him but to no avail. Needless to say, stepson is grounded till next year, which I do not know if that is more of a punishment for me/us or him."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (01:20)", "body": "I am so glad I do not have kids!"}, {"response": 72, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (01:38)", "body": "And that's what I'll have the privileged to, in about 10 years. Preparing myself, I think...."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Cynthia7", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (07:07)", "body": "Hi, I'm new to Ramble. It's about dawn in S.F.Sunday morning the 15th. I hoping to get some leads on how to find out information about who actually makes those holiday ornaments in China, etc. or the toys. Having just watched the TV special last Sunday Mrs. Santa Claus, and the part about the kids making thetoys, I couldn't help wonder, as I went shopping yesterday. Me, I'm getting my elementary teaching credential with an emphasis in technology. If posssible, now that finals are just about over, I'd like to throw up a web page about this topic. The page would be dedicated to Iqbal Masih http://www.digitalrag.com/mirror/iqbal.html a 12 year old who was killed on Easter Sunday organizing against child labor My e-mail address is crapak@sfsu.edu. not the one that I had to register with Any leads would be appreciated. I'll try to check back on this conference but e-mailing me directly would also be appreciated since time is short and I want to have it up before next week shopping. I'll be doing research on who makes toys for leading toy makers, GUND, etc. and other importers who may or may not be using children to make the ornaments, toys. Happy Holidays Please feel free to forward this request to any appropriate list etc. Thanks for the help!"}, {"response": 74, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (09:15)", "body": "Sure, we'll be happy to let you set up your web page. Send your request to: mailto://terry@spring.com Be sure to let me know what username you would like."}, {"response": 75, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (10:02)", "body": "Terry and Amy - there are now so many threads - that it takes a long time to review just today's messages. Lots of IO time just to see that person \"A\" is LOL at person B's comment yesterday. I love those comments, but there is a lot of download time inv olved here. If we get a day or two behind, we drown. Is it possible to combined threads - maybe the older ones - on similar topics so we of limited time can cover the ground a little quicker. Maybe after a topic is a week old, it could be folded in with other similar topics. We have two addiction threads, two duckfaces, several minor character threads, lots of others that could be combined so that IO time could be reduced."}, {"response": 76, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (10:10)", "body": "The way to \"combine threads\" or topics as they're called, would be copy and paste a complete topic into a single response in another topic then \"scribble\" it. Or make it hidden unless you clicked on it. We'd have to ask Dave how to implement a scribble command or hide command or whatever you wanted to call it. It's not currently implemented. But this could be a solution. Is this what you mean?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (10:26)", "body": "Re; It seems that you have to be one step ahead of them. At least no one was injuried. I would definitly ground him{a year is pretty hard to enforce} and make him do chores around the house.My son said {who is 13} he should not be allowed to drive until{n o permit} he is 18 years old. I am very surprised at this punishment. He knows that most kids can't wait to drive just, like him."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (20:14)", "body": "I just got caught up on reading my e-mail! 37 messages deleted from the trash bin! Whoohoo!! Free at last, free at last, thank God amighty, I'm free at last! (at least until tomorrow...)"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Saman", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (02:50)", "body": "I hate what Christmas does to my hard-earned savings (perhaps dislike is a better word). I went shopping today for the major presents which I have been planning to but for weeks and ended up spending twice as much as I intended - mainly on stuff for me! I just checked my email and I got a lovely reply from the moderator of the Crowded House list I subscribe to. In my eagerness to inform the listies of an upcoming interview I mailed them, and then when it bounced back I mailed it again (and perhaps even a third time). Stupid me - it only bounced from one list member so now people around the world think I'm a hopeless newbie (I really dislike that). But Marck (the list operator) was really sweet and has made me feel a whole lot better. I think I'll stic to lurking on that list, and compensate by posting excessively here, because it's such a supporting environment :)"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (08:34)", "body": "Amy (and all the others who are interested) Yes, a sort of. You know, the meaning here in Finland is a little bit different. It actually means \"A family with strange powers\", or something like that. Anyway, in my family there HAS been a real witch (I think it was my great-great-grandfather), who could, for example, make the neighbour's cows to disappear. Then there are some healers (like my mother's uncle, and, to a limited extent, my mother) and my elder little brother sometimes sees the future in his dreams. My gift is the same that my grandmother (from my mother's side, because that's the family) had: I have an inborn empathy towards people and animals. Sometimes I can predict very accurately the actions of some people, even though I don't know them well. It usually works for friends only, though. A disturbing gift, I'd say. I even saw the destruction of my 1,5 year relationship, because my girlfriend fell in love with a good friend of mine. I was the one that knew it first (even before they did), but since I've sworn I won't try to interfere with my empathy, I did nothing. Maybe it wouldn't have helped. They are married now, and happy. I think. I should visit them at Christmas... Okay, that's enough for now about the Finnish witches. I think it was no wonder that in medieval times the Finns were feared wizards. There's still some of the powers left. I know of a couple of other witch families, too."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (17:34)", "body": "I have a similar ability to your brother's. Sometimes, when I am about to fall asleep, I get a sort of dream, but with a difference--I know that they are predictive of the future. Before I ever went to college, or ever visited the campus, I saw a glimpse of one of the classrooms and the teacher giving a lecture; about two years later what I saw came true. It used to happen much more often when I was younger, but actually occurred t wice on the same day last week. As a physicist and a scientist this is a bit disturbing. I must conclude from personal experience that time is not linear, but folds upon itself in a way which allows information from one time to be viewed in another. I also keep in mind a line from Billy-Boy: There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. (By the way I'm 1/4 Finnish (my paternal grandmother))"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Mlydle", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (19:47)", "body": "In regard to the punishment for stepson, we agreed for him to be grounded till Christmas. You all are right, you must stay one step ahead of them. He being only 18 years younger than me helps as well. It only seems like yesterday that I was up to simil ar shaningans. In regards to the above, Well I have to think about whether time is not linear, but folds upon itself. Being of the logical sorts who did too much experimentation when younger, I tend to pulled between logic and experience."}, {"response": 83, "author": "maddog", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (15:52)", "body": "Terry, just checked out the apps conference looking for help on a problem I have been having with realaudio - yikes, that conference is huge! - anyhow I kept getting a server error message when I tried to get into the realaudio section - thought I should let you know and also to ask who/where else could I turn for help with realaudio questions - specifically I am looking for a way to obtain a new copy of the old raplayer 2.x plugin for netscape/win 3.x - it seems that now that realaudio has come out with .0, they don't offer it anymore (snobs)- and 3.0 merely taunts me with bandwidth error messages on my poor old 486/14,400 set up.... I tried clicking my red shoes together and saying \"there's no place like version 2.x\", but it didn't work......"}, {"response": 84, "author": "cat", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (19:15)", "body": "Hello Peoples! My computer has been used by my mother and younger brother for the past WEEK. It has been hard to be away for so long but I have comforted myself and have started to read Northangar Abbey. Who is ready for the Flu\\Cold season? The Octe t (my singing group) gave a concert this morning. Yours Truely got a solo in \"Emmanuel\" ....in our darkness, in our bondage, child of hope we long for thee, walk among us, dwell within us, be our light and set us free, Emmanuel, Emmanuel, our God is with us now Emmanuel, the daystar of our night is sleeping on the straw, be with us now Emmanuel.....Isn't that song BEAUTIFUL! I am also singing it on Christmas Eve. Is that cool or what?"}, {"response": 85, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (20:51)", "body": "Maddog, check out http://www.realaudio.com and try our conference again. That server error happens every now and then but you'll probably be able to get in next time."}, {"response": 86, "author": "maddog", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (14:03)", "body": "thanks - I all ready been to realaudio, of course they no longer offer 2.0 (must have partners in the modem business) - It's really a drag when a company will not support a product that is less than a year old, just because they have a newer release. It k ind of leaves people like me in the lurch if we can't go buy a new pentium to run their new product. (sounds like some other company I won't mention but whose initials are microsoft!) I will check your realaudio conference again to see if there is anyone that made a backup copy of version 2.0 they might share..."}, {"response": 87, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (11:05)", "body": "Ladies, just have to share the words of wisdom on my perpetual calendar yesterday; reading it made my day. \"There's nothing wrong in the world that a sensible woman couldn't settle in an afternoon\". Happy Holidays!"}, {"response": 88, "author": "drymartini", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (19:53)", "body": "Amy-- have you used all your muslin? I heard there is a KKK for persons of color: they call it the Black Muslins. Cat-- I hope your friend Tara is doing okay and you are feeling better about that ugly situation. Maybe the kids who stole Tara's Bible will peek inside and find something helpful. I find it very hard to pray for people who are mean to me, or to others. B ut when I am able to, it is liberating. Cheryl-- we have something in common. I teach computer stuff a lot these days, but I have not been able to give up teaching piano. But hey, keyboards is keyboards, hmmm? I like to think about how the piano was developed by Bart. Cristofori, whose huge tro uble was perfecting the escapement. But they said it couldn't be done-- you couldn't have a keyboard instrument that you could control, as to amplitude or loudness, by the way you struck the keys! Then many years later the whole thing was repeated from Mo g on, with electronic keyboards finally becoming polyphonic and TOUCH RESPONSIVE. Wow! I think Bach would have been nuts about electronic music stuff. Joyous holidays, all!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "maddog", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (21:55)", "body": "Terry - within 24 hours of posting my plea about my realaudio problems in your apps conference, I have been in contact with a very fine dude named David Bowles who searched/found and mailed me a new copy of version 2.0! I bow long and low to him, you, and The Spring for making this possible - I never fail to be in awe of the power of the net and the kindness of the people I have met here. peace and joy"}, {"response": 90, "author": "cat", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (07:54)", "body": "I can't believe Christmas is only 3 days away!"}, {"response": 91, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (17:10)", "body": "I am so bored I changed the curtains in my kitchen. Just a few things to wrap and a couple of cookies to bake. Hope everyone has most of their shopping done because I know I hate fighting the crowds. that must be the reason why it is so quite around here . Merry Christmas."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (00:32)", "body": "I know that some of my friends here have been concerned about me and my complete and utter lack of Christmas spirit. I have had a few glimpses of it this past week; last Thursday when I attended the Jr. High School Band Concert and watched 11 of my piano or handbell kids play their band instruments in public for the first time, and again at my students Christmas Piano Recital, all of them dressed up in their Sunday best and playing all the old favorites! This morning my church choir offered our Annual Christmas Cantata and I felt the closest to Christmas that I have been, singing the wonderful words about our Lord choosing to become one of us to save us. I even came home and did some decorating! Tomorro w I am spending the day baking, for who can be a Grinch when eating Grandma's famous Christmas cookies! I am very thankful this Christmas for all the new friends I have found here. God bless you all!"}, {"response": 93, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (02:58)", "body": "God Bless You Merry Gentlepeople at this festive time. I'm so pleased to have met all of the wonderful people who make up the growing band of Austenites. I am especially thankful to Amy and Terry for their time, patience and perseverance, and of course their server space."}, {"response": 94, "author": "lars", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (16:56)", "body": "Hi Terry. Hmm. Suspected we had similar ancestry. Pretty nice place! Soon on way to bar to see friends before all take off for xmas. Fill myself with liquid \"charm and intelligence.\" Then probably enter cyberspace - again. Merry holidays to all from Frisco! Lars"}, {"response": 95, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (22:08)", "body": "You're Norwegian Lars?"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (22:41)", "body": "Today, my sister and I trekked out into the blizzard we are experiencing here in Minneapolis and went to what locals refer to as the Mega-Mall, also known, more formally, as the Mall of America--the largest shopping mall in the United States (there is a larger one in Edminton Canada). I was pleasently suprised to find that the mall wasn't very crowded--on this Christmas-Eve Eve. Perhaps even hearty Minnesotans were afraid to wade through the snow and ice to go shopping (thank God for 4-WD!). But I believe it is more likely that they were all hanging their heads in shame after the trouncing the Vikings took yesterday at the hands of the Green Bay Packers 38-10 (GO PACK!!!). Your Eternal Cheesehead--Ann"}, {"response": 97, "author": "Mlydle", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (00:41)", "body": "Well, here in Austin its a balmy 60-70 degrees. Being of the male persuasion, I find myself compelled to wait till the last 2-3 days to shop, so I was one of the many hurried masses going madly from place to place (thank god for Valium and relaxation tap es) trying to find that perfect gift within my price range. Need a John Madden Super Nintendo ASAP, stepson can't have all clothes. And all the while trying what this years Christmas symbolizes to me. But more on that later, Wallmart is open 24 hours.. ."}, {"response": 98, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (04:14)", "body": "So, Ann, you're one of those folks we see on tv with face painted green and a big block of cheese mounted atop their heads?"}, {"response": 99, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (01:17)", "body": "I got a cheesehead for Christmas!"}, {"response": 100, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (06:32)", "body": "Can we see a picture of you wearing a cheesehead on your web page?"}, {"response": 101, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (11:18)", "body": "I'll work on it! Thanks Terry for giving me a home page. It's up and running--and extremely boring at the moment (www.spring.com/~anneh/). It's basically all of my bookmarks. I'll work on making it more interesting. My sister has a scanner and said she will scan whatever I want, but she lives in California, about to embark on a three week trip to Italy, so it will be a while before any cheesehead pictures could possibly appear."}, {"response": 102, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (11:58)", "body": "I have a scanner too, if anyone needs to mail pictures to me for their webpage."}, {"response": 103, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (13:11)", "body": "Hey Ann, I'm majorly bummed out that you didn't include your very own graphic that I made just for you, on your webpage. I spent five minutes looking for the quote and a whole fifteen minutes slaving over a hot Photoshop to make the graphic, so I think i t's the least you could do..."}, {"response": 104, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (14:31)", "body": "The cheesehead shot?"}, {"response": 105, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (21:46)", "body": "Check out my HTML Tags Tutorial: www.spring.com/~anneh/tagsaaaa.html Any advice on changes or additions are very welcome. I do like my graphic Henry. I will put it up."}, {"response": 106, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (17:09)", "body": "Thanks Ann for so pleasantly reminding me of why I don't live in Minnesota anymore, and why visiting Minnesota is much more pleasant in the summertime. The Mall of America is awesome, and so close to the airport when I come for those summer visits. Happ y New (and hopefully warmer) Year!"}, {"response": 107, "author": "drymartini", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (11:20)", "body": "Careful with those tranks, now. Say, have you seen this new product that contains tranks and aspertame? It's called EqualLibrium. Hope you made it back safely from the bar where you stocked up on charm, etc. I have been doing extensive research into the construction of bottles, there being a major container maker in my town. I have discovered that most bottlenecks are at the t op. Tried to explain this to my managing editor; he is not convinced. Does your research bear out my conclusions, Lars? Or do we need to continue gathering data, replicating our results? When we have enough data, will we be able to perform analyses and re ort our findings?"}, {"response": 108, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (13:25)", "body": "My girlfriend and I took my 3 kids and her eldest daughter out for Pizza.Of course they always bring the pitcher of soda to soon.By the time the pizza came it was all gone.I had some left in my cup and eldest daughter had some left in hers. When my kids a re thristy watch out for your drink. My six year old says \"Hey Gee\" your not drinking your soda\"\"How come\"? \"May I please have some\" she said \"Sure\". His reply was \"thanks\" \"and If you don't mind I'll take the straw too\".It was done in the politest manner for a six year old don't ya think.We all jumped on the poor kid Scotty! It was funny.Then they had to play the jukebox\"Grandma Got Ran Over by a Raindeer\" it was hilarous.They all started singing. This is why I don't go out very much. What a scene???"}, {"response": 109, "author": "TJ", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (14:03)", "body": "WOW, first time i came to this area, but then again i haven't been around in a while....had to read all 108 entries as new.....what an interesting bunch of comments, statements, conversations, questions & answers. Absolutely loved it, sure wish this wa s an open chat..... I would definitely like to talk to many of you regularly........ Terry have you thought about putting in a chat area.......??????????"}, {"response": 110, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (18:58)", "body": "We have a chat room. You can get to this from the link on the main Austen Conference page. It is the Pemberley Drawing Room: http://www.worldrch.com/cgibin/Chat/nph-chat.cgi"}, {"response": 111, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (21:21)", "body": "Good to see you coming around again TJ. One of these times I'm gonna make it for darts at the tavern down in Bastrop. Let me know when the next one is going to be ok? We can get our own chat room if folks want it. The kind Pemberly folks have offered us their software if we want it. It's not ichat, but it's not bad stuff."}, {"response": 112, "author": "TJ", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (10:31)", "body": "from the looks of the stuff on the ramble page, it might be a good idea to have our own chat area.......at least see if anyone else has an interest.......but right now I think I'll check out the Pemberly Drawing Room.........Paul, yea it is nice to be bac k......do you have anything to do the Bastrop Internet Services??????.......do you know Daryl Kouba??????......hope to see you on Thursday (darts)..........."}, {"response": 113, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (10:35)", "body": "I have two servers on the bastrop.net. I can't get a hold of the kid who does their web page. I'm looking for someone in the Bastrop area, a high school kid would be ok, who can work part time at the Spring installing networks, configuring servers, and doing data entry work. I have a plan to make the Spring a world class web site and I am starting to sense an organization forming. The folks in the Austen conference are really pitching in and helping out and starting to take part in some website projects. But I need some help locally now."}, {"response": 114, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (13:56)", "body": "There are a group of us (about 10) who have formed a music group here at work to exercise our mutual love of music. Twice a month, we reserve a conference room, bring in our instruments and meet together during lunch hour. I play piano and keyboard (at work) and sing, all just a little and very ill, indeed. But, it is something else that affords me an extraordinary source of pleasure (like Jane Austen). We play and sing lots of different kinds of music because we have different tastes which include popular, country, standards, classical. We haven't had the nerve to attempt jazz, yet. One of the pieces that we do frequently is Handel's Largo from \"Xerxe s which is the piece that Mary sings in P&P2 (at the Netherfield Ball, I think). For the past couple of years, we have hosted a Christmas sing-along where we play and sing holiday music in the cafeteria and invite the entire building to join us. It has been well received. Today, I ran into Karen, who is a fellow music group member. As we were chatting, we discovered a mutual love of P&P and P&P2. I'm so excited!! I think that I can create yet another addict. Now, besides you wonderful internet friends, I will be able to talk about Jane Austen face to face with Karen at work and with my friend Barbra after working hours. 1997 is going to be great!!! Happy New Year to you all !!!"}, {"response": 115, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (14:13)", "body": "Linda, That music group sounds really delightful. I recently found out that a woman who works where I do is a longtime committed lurker to this board. She didn't recognize me from my postings, but we found out by accident that we both like this place. And the significant other of a man I work with is a frequent visitor to Firthdom, and has a copy of The Making of P&P that she will lend me. Small world, indeed. Jane"}, {"response": 116, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (20:29)", "body": "Well, here it is New Year's Eve, and the state of the northern part of the state (CA) could be better. The Russian River is now 2 feet above flood stage and the people up there have been told to evacuate or prepare to be stranded. So much for the ir New Year's Eve plans... While the rain has not been excessive in my immediate neighborhood, 3 of our local reservoirs are full-up and spilling over their dams, and our entire TV cable system has \"broken\" somewhere and they don't yet know where or why. Before it broke we saw a few seconds of the New Year's fireworks in Sidney Harbour - and I think I spotted Ian waving at the camera. Happy New Year, all!"}, {"response": 117, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (20:38)", "body": "Rain has been excessive here {in PA.} to Joan. We had a flood in the Summer of 1972. Are you worried about flooding? The weather man said we only had more rain \"100\" years ago. Now that is very strange."}, {"response": 118, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (20:58)", "body": "I am not concerned for my own estate being flooded, but it is sad to see it happening to our neighbors to the north again - they got it badly in 1986 and again in 1995, and here they go again... Many vineyards are already under 3 to 4 feet of wate r..."}, {"response": 119, "author": "McBruce", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (21:32)", "body": "Heading into 1997 in the Last Frontier, our weather isn't threatening just darn inconvenient. Forecast for tonight is 40-45 below, extended forecast thru sunday is 30-60 below. On the plus side, tomorrow we break the 4 hour mark of available daylight! Had the truck plugged in all afternoon so it would start tonight, now the question is how long I can stay out before it freezes up. A happy and peaceful 1997 to all!"}, {"response": 120, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (00:00)", "body": "This all makes Boston's 20 degrees F. and 1 inch of snow seem so anemic. I wish you all a more pleasant '97."}, {"response": 121, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (04:29)", "body": "On the subject of one in a hundred year rainfalls; about 5 years ago sydney had the third of 3 one in a hundred year rains in 4 years - ain't statistics wonderful. In the ritzy part of town a Jaguar was swept down the street and deposited on top of someo ne's Mercedes; truly impressive rain. Still, at least it was summer, so warm, if wet. I hope those in need dry out soon."}, {"response": 122, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (04:54)", "body": "It is warm (relatively speaking) though wet here - it is pouring as I type yet at almost 3 AM it is only 64 F outside. Pineapple express for sure!"}, {"response": 123, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (10:58)", "body": "Austin's sixth street partied down last night and I got a video of myself at the stroke of midnight on the Springs' main page . I started out at the KOOP party at Armageddon and ended up with the masses on Sixth, watching the big silver start get hoisted by a huge crane. Now, I'm sitting in Cedar Creek with my coffee and toast. Happy New Year everyone!"}, {"response": 124, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (23:53)", "body": "For all of you suffering through some absolutely awful winter weather, we in southern California are busy taking good care of all the truly nice weather for you and would be vastly happy to send it your way at any time convenient!"}, {"response": 125, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (16:20)", "body": "Mary, my visiting daughter would greatly appreciate it if you would send your truly nice weather to Seattle. She's heading back there tomorrow and would like to return to decent weather!;-)"}, {"response": 126, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (17:58)", "body": "and would be vastly happy to send it your way at any time convenient! Please do not stand on ceremony or await an invitation! Any time at all would be convenient! Stepping on my lawn sounds and feels like treading on saturated sponges. :-("}, {"response": 127, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (18:23)", "body": "Hi Terry, we still cannot access news.prismnet.com for quite some time after you switch from iamerica.net. It seems like prismnet did not open usenet access for our IP addresses. Hope you can check this matter and happy new year."}, {"response": 128, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "I'll look into it Ted. Thanks."}, {"response": 129, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (00:03)", "body": "Terry, if prismnet granted us usenet access, we can use tin to access the usenet news, but you have to do (at shell prompt): rm /etc/nntpserver ; echo news.prismnet.com > /etc/nntpserver so all of us can access the news. Hope it helps."}, {"response": 130, "author": "lilah", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "It's just after 9 pm here in South Florida, and I'm recovering from a day at work that can best be described as, \"OK, folks, the holidays are over.\" Yikes. I'm an editor, learning a new city and looking for a new circle of friends. I just found the Spring yesterday -- not to mention the Austen group. I suspect I've found some kindred spirits."}, {"response": 131, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (20:45)", "body": "Where did you come from Lilah? What kind of editor?"}, {"response": 132, "author": "lilah", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (22:14)", "body": "Amy, I moved here from Hoboken, N J, where I lived for a number of years, working in Manhattan and New Jersey as a newspaper editor. I do the same thing here, for a group of small specialty papers."}, {"response": 133, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "Terry, you didn't say that this topic was in multiple Conferences! I just thought I'd visit the Cultures Conference and 'lo what did I see but this topis! Tch tch!"}, {"response": 134, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (20:32)", "body": "]topic was in multiple Conferences! That's been apparent from the postings from \"strangers\" for some time. It's also in porch"}, {"response": 135, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (17:41)", "body": "When you do a listing of topics, it states that it's a \"linked topic\"."}, {"response": 136, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (20:29)", "body": "It also states \"linked item\" every time you read new stuff in it right at the top of the topic. On future \"linked topics\" I'll post a note that they are linked in the intro or in one of the responses to make this clear."}, {"response": 137, "author": "geekman", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (04:09)", "body": "Thanks Terry! Will be much appreciated. From within the Austen Conference this time."}, {"response": 138, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:22)", "body": "_______________________________________________________ \"Why did the chicken cross the road?\" ----------------------------------------------------- Plato: For the greater good. Karl Marx: It was a historical inevitability. Thomas de Torquemada: Give me ten minutes with the chicken and I'll find out. Timothy Leary: Because that's the only kind of trip the Establishment would let it take. Douglas Adams: Forty-two. Nietzsche: Because if you gaze too long across the Road, the Road gazes also across you. Oliver North: National Security was at stake. Carl Jung: The confluence of events in the cultural gestalt necessitated that individual chickens cross roads at this historical juncture, and therefore synchronicitously brought such occurrences into being. Jean-Paul Sartre: In order to act in good faith and be true to itself, the chicken found it necessary to cross the road. Ludwig Wittgenstein: The possibility of \"crossing\" was encoded into the objects \"chicken\" and \"road,\" and circumstances came into being which caused the actualization of this potential occurrence. Albert Einstein: Whether the chicken crossed the road or the road crossed the chicken depends upon your frame of reference. Aristotle: To actualize its potential. Buddha: If you ask this question, you deny your own chicken-nature. Salvador Dali: The Fish. Darwin: It was the logical next step after coming down from the trees. Emily Dickinson: Because it could not stop for death. Epicurus: For fun. Ralph Waldo Emerson: It didn't cross the road; it transcended it. Johann Friedrich von Goethe: The eternal hen-principle made it do it. Ernest Hemingway: To die. In the rain. Werner Heisenberg: We are not sure which side of the road the chicken was on, but it was moving very fast. David Hume: Out of custom and habit. Saddam Hussein: This was an unprovoked act of rebellion and we were quite justified in dropping 50 tons of nerve gas on it. Jack Nicholson: 'cause it (censored) wanted to. That's the (censored) reason. Pyrrho the Skeptic: What road? Ronald Reagan: I forget. John Sununu: The Air Force was only too happy to provide the transportation, so quite understandably the chicken availed himself of the opportunity. The Sphinx: You tell me. Sappho: Due to the loveliness of the hen on the other side, more fair than all of Hellas' fine armies. Henry David Thoreau: To live deliberately ... and suck all the marrow out of life. Mark Twain: The news of its crossing has been greatly exaggerated. Stephen Jay Gould: It is possible that there is a sociobiological explanation for it, but we have been deluged in recent years with sociobiological stories despite the fact that we have little direct evidence about the genetics of behavior, and we do not know how to obtain it for the specific behaviors that figure most prominently in sociobiological speculation. Joseph Stalin: I don't care. Catch it. Crack its eggs to make my omlette. Captain James T. Kirk: To boldly go where no chicken has gone before. Machiavelli: So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road, but also with fear, for whom among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely chicken's dominion maintained. Hippocrates: Because of an excess of pleghm in its pancreas. Andersen Consultant: Deregulation of the chicken's side of the road was threatening its dominant market position. The chicken was faced with significant challenges to create and develop the competencies required for the newly competitive market. Andersen Consulting, in a partnering relationship with the client, helped the chicken by rethinking its physical distribution strategy and implementation processes. Using the Poultry Integration Model (PIM) Andersen helped the chicken use its skills, methodologies, knowledge capital and experiences to align the chicken's people, processes and technology in support of its overall strategy within a Program Management framework. Andersen Consulting convened a diverse cross-spectrum of road analysts and best chickens along with Andersen consultants with deep skills in the transportation industry to engage in a two-day itinerary of meetings in order to leverage their personal knowledge capital, both tacit and explicit, and to enable them to synergize with each other in order to achieve the implicit goals of delivering and successfully architecting and implementing an enterprise-wide value framework across the continuum of poultry cross-median processes. The meeting was held in a park like setting enabling and creating an impactful environment which was strategically based, industry-focused, and built upon a consistent, clear, and unified market message and aligned with the chicken's mission, vision, and core values. This was conducive towards the creation of a total business integration solution. Andersen Consulting helped the chicken change to become more successful. Johnny Cochr"}, {"response": 139, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "ROFLOL!!!"}, {"response": 140, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:52)", "body": "Anna: \"ROFLOL!!!\" Me Too!!! :-)"}, {"response": 141, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (05:21)", "body": "There's a slightly different collection linked to from near the end of the Jane Austen jokes file at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austt10j.html ; this version includes a Pride and Prejudice version of the chicken joke..."}, {"response": 142, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "Oh dear... Oh dear... I have to wipe my eyes now to resume my viewing."}, {"response": 143, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "Another ROFLOL. With your permission, may I e-mail this to my children - they love these things and I usually get jokes from them."}, {"response": 144, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "Oh, Inko. No permission required. I am on a list of one of those infamous net jokers. These things just get passed around. Usually the things she sends are stupid, but if I get an LOL from any of them as I did with this, I shall put them up."}, {"response": 145, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "SAY CHEESE!!! WE ARE GOING TO THE SUPERBOWL!!!"}, {"response": 146, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (17:07)", "body": "Ann - I am happy for you. and for all those barechested men in the stands the announcers kept talking about. what a way to call the rest of us sissies."}, {"response": 147, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (17:30)", "body": "There's joy in cheeshead land."}, {"response": 148, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "]There's joy in cheeshead land. Not to mention Beantown!"}, {"response": 149, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (19:18)", "body": "Congratulations Ann (Cheesehead) and Myretta (Beantowner) - it's nice to see some different teams in the Superbowl. Now - are you two going to have a bet on the outcome????;-)"}, {"response": 150, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (19:49)", "body": "Alright, the beaner and the cheeshead toe to toe."}, {"response": 151, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (20:09)", "body": "Yummmm, does this mean that at all the Super Bowl parties -- Bean dip and Cheese Doritos will be served?"}, {"response": 152, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (20:40)", "body": "Woo-hoo, Ann...maybe it will help you forget last year ? ;)"}, {"response": 153, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (20:43)", "body": "BTW, people...only a month until catchers and pitchers report to Spring Training. Can't wait. Go Braves."}, {"response": 154, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (20:54)", "body": "PLEASE, Mrs. Bennet, no sports, I BEG you! :-("}, {"response": 155, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (22:09)", "body": "That's why I put it in the ramble topic, Joan. It is supposed to be for anything one might want to say. As for me, though I will be cheering for Green Bay, I have absolutely no faith in the team and fully expect them to choke."}, {"response": 156, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (00:26)", "body": "Ann, have a little faith! ;) --- Joan, sports can be a very welcome diversion from computers, I must say...I hope to be able to make at least one Giants-Braves series at the 'Stick (okay, 3-Com!) this year...anybody else out there like baseball? ANYBODY???!!!"}, {"response": 157, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (01:11)", "body": "Kali: anybody else out there like baseball? ANYBODY???!!! Kali, I'm a big Detroit Tigers fan, growing up in Michigan it was a part of my childhood training just like ice skating and mosquito slapping! I spent many happy days at Tiger Stadium as a child...can't believe they're going to tear down that beautiful o ld stadium! :-("}, {"response": 158, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (01:49)", "body": "I grew up a Cardinals fan. St. Louis. Busch Stadium. Joe Garagiola, Harry Carey, Jack Buck and Tim McCarver used to broadcast the games on KMOX."}, {"response": 159, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (03:13)", "body": "Harry Caray...sigh...I've grown up on Skip Caray... Yay for you guys...baseball lives! And yes, Cheryl...stadiumwrecking is a crying shame...I had the displeasure of seeing Comiskey in varying degrees of demolition whilst the new Comiskey was constructed...almost like the life was being sucked out of the old stadium and being pumped into the new..."}, {"response": 160, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (03:41)", "body": "Congratulations Ann or should I say Slart ? So your team is in the final. Well, the beleaguered Australian One Day Cricket Team has missed out on the World Series Cricket Finals for the first time in 17 years! And on top of that is the New South Wales Shield Team losing very badly to Western Australia , in their Sheffield Shield match at the Sydney Cricket Ground. Now let me tell yo all that when NSW Cricket is strong, Australia is strong! So come on NSW and Come On Aussie ! Oh, Cheryl , now if you would really like to see some venerable old grounds, come and see our grand stands at our Cricket Grounds!"}, {"response": 161, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (03:44)", "body": "I drove by some folks playing cricket in Austin the other day. Will you please start a cricket topic in the sports conference Ian?"}, {"response": 162, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (03:51)", "body": "If you'd like me too, Terry! BTW, what are you doing up at this hour?!? Now if you were in Australia... :-)"}, {"response": 163, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (04:42)", "body": "I had to come in to work early today because we're facing an ice storm and the company I work for is on a crash project and need everyone they can to be here. I'm not normally up at this hour. Have you seen that austen is the feature on the Spring's main page today? If I were in Australia I'd probably be warmer now."}, {"response": 164, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (07:47)", "body": "Another connection, Cheryl. I grew up as a Tiger fan too. Stormin' Norman Cash, Al Kaline (saw him hit a grand slam once), my mother's heartthrob, Rocky Colavito (sp?) And Terry, you lived in St. Louis? Me from 76-80. End of the Lou Brock days, hot muggy afternoons in left field. Attended the 7th game of the 80 world series."}, {"response": 165, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (12:40)", "body": "Kali, gang; live in Milwaukee, and my hubby was one of the many enjoying themselves at 1 degree above zero yesterday (although I hope, I very much hope, NOT one of the barechested ones! :) ) Anyway, baseball is my game; started as a Braves fan (yes, here in Milwaukee when I was just a sprig), have become a Brewers fan. I can enjoy any baseball game; when we vacation outside of Duluth in the summer we go to Duluth Dukes games; fabulous fun, e specially if the San Diego chicken is visiting."}, {"response": 166, "author": "yairl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (14:19)", "body": "i've got to know how to make a good pizza any ideas????????"}, {"response": 167, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (14:51)", "body": "Must have a stone, Yair. That is the first thing -- unless you are doing deep disih. Amy Who Used to Live in Chicago"}, {"response": 168, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (15:27)", "body": "Amy: Another connection, Cheryl. I grew up as a Tiger fan too. Stormin' Norman Cash, Al Kaline (saw him hit a grand slam once), my mother's heartthrob, Rocky Colavito (sp?) Cool, Amy...I still look back on my 9th birthday as very special...I spent it with my Mom at Tiger Stadium watching a Twi-Night Double header against the hated Yankees...Tigers won both games, Al Kaline hit a homer in one, Mickey Lolich got a one-hitter i n the other and the Tigers went on to win the Series that year ('68,of course, not '84!) Can still sing the Tiger fight song I learned in 4th grade...\"Sock it to 'em Tigers, show 'em how to play...)"}, {"response": 169, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (17:29)", "body": "Not 'Teach me tiger', Cheryl????"}, {"response": 170, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (17:36)", "body": "We're all behind our baseball team. Go get em tigers. Right? Go get em, Detroit Tigers. Go get em Tigers!"}, {"response": 171, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "I like the Saint Paul Saints--Northern League team that put the fun back into going to see baseball games. They are a total hoot. (Daryl Strawberry slept here)"}, {"response": 172, "author": "lilah", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:44)", "body": "Terry, Amy -- St. Louis is my home town. I remember seeing Stan Musial play at old Sportsman's Park (I was a tiny child, OK?) There ARE no announcers to compare with Jack Buck and Harry Caray describing the game on a hot August night on KMOX -- \"this is t he Cardinal baseball network.\""}, {"response": 173, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "Yay! More baseball fans! Wow, Mari...you're an even older Bravie than I am...I got hooked back in the eighties, when they still sucked...a great time to love baseball, b/c every game was personal. Fay Vincent was even threatening to review our status as an Atlanta team! I still have my Dale Murphy baseball card collection...over 300 cards, including his two rookie cards and one I got autographed. --- Good pizza? Zachary's stuffed is the best...they make their dough with beer and put the sauce on top and the toppings inside (go figure)...unfortunately, you can only get Zack's in Oakland and Berkeley...:("}, {"response": 174, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (23:14)", "body": "Talking, pizza : fav : thin crust with pesto, goat cheese, green and black olives, onions, prosciutto and walnuts. Other one is curried chicken pizza If you're in the vicinity of Montreal, go or order at Pizzedelic."}, {"response": 175, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (08:27)", "body": "Another Braves fan here! The Murph was great, also BRUUUUCE Benedict and Jeff Treadway and Lonnie Smith (so what if he fell for the deke--they should have been able to get him home). Go Braves!!!"}, {"response": 176, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (16:16)", "body": "LLohr (lilah)''There ARE no announcers to compare with Jack Buck and Harry Caray describing the game on a hot August night on KMOX -- \"this is the Cardinal baseball network.\"'' Lilah, I beg to differ; there is nothing like driving home from your summer vacation and enjoying Bob Uecker announcing the Sunday afternoon Brewer's game...''Get up..Get up.. Get outta here....''"}, {"response": 177, "author": "lilah", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (18:10)", "body": "Mari, I'd just about settle for any announcer describing any game...are football and basketball seasons over yet???"}, {"response": 178, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "I grew up in Minnesota BEFORE the Twins and the Vikes, so am thrilled the 'Pack is Back'. Saw my first major league game in Tiger (then Briggs) Stadium because that's one of the things we always did when we visited our Detroit relatives. Great memories. .are they really going to tear that wonderful stadium down, can't believe it."}, {"response": 179, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (22:56)", "body": "Moved to collapse topics: Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (10:14) | Laura McCarthy ( LauraM ) Sorry, but I must do this. GO PATS!!!!!!! JAMBALYA YA JAMBALAYA YA.... Think of me doing a really stupid dance right now. 4 responses total."}, {"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "Good. Laura, I am happy for you. Thanks for sharing, dear. Sincerely. (But can we have a little talk about willynilly topic creation/)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (17:12)", "body": "Laura; go to the Ramble topic; we are having quite the sports dicussion over there; of course you'll have to excuse us Wisconsinites if we don't join in your cheer;))"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (17:27)", "body": "Go Pack!!!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Becks", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Football in a JA bulletin board!!! Insupportable!!!!"}, {"response": 180, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (00:43)", "body": "Yep, Meggin...Lonnie Smith remains my all-time favorite left-fielder. And Bruce one of my favorite catchers...and Jeff Treadway my favorite second-baseman. BTW, I have one of Jeffy's broken bats...something only the biggest fan would want, considering h is relative obscurity! ;) Oh, and Jeff Blauser is also a god...because he's a Californian...;)"}, {"response": 181, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (00:45)", "body": "Oh, and Laura...I support your Patriot Victory Topic... :::) Solidarity among the sportsfans!"}, {"response": 182, "author": "McBruce", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (01:59)", "body": "Cheryl and Amy- how could you forget Denny Maclean? And not a bad piano player for a jock. What I remember best about Tiger stadium was the smell of the Wonder bread factory on the way in, cruising the Lodge with the windows down. And CKLW on the AM radio."}, {"response": 183, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (02:30)", "body": "Bruce: Cheryl and Amy- how could you forget Denny Maclean? Bruce! Another Michigander has come out of the closet! ;-) I have not forgot Dennt McClain, they could not have won the '68 Series without him! But it was Lolich who won the game I was describing. ;-) I hadn't thought of the Wonder Bread factory in ye ars! Thanks for the reminder! Fresh bread--what a wonderful smell!"}, {"response": 184, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (05:13)", "body": "Nice collapse Amy :-)"}, {"response": 185, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (06:12)", "body": "] forget Denny Maclean? __ Hey Bruce. Another link. Tigers and Bob Seger. Nice combo. Denny MaClean, the million dollar arm with the 10 cent attitude. re the Lodge: kid story about that another time. Where did you guys grow up? Me, in Mt. Pleasant, but I worked in Detroit for a couple of years right out of college (Central Michigan)"}, {"response": 186, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (06:41)", "body": "We have a Tiger Wood topic in sports by the way, the sports conference here."}, {"response": 187, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (06:46)", "body": "Did I say we had a sports topic here? I believe a Pats topic would be supportablee there, my dear."}, {"response": 188, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (06:49)", "body": "I meant of course, sports *conference*. Imagine, an entire conference devoted to sports and austenites are more than welcome to elucidate on any topic there."}, {"response": 189, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (11:39)", "body": "Amy: Where did you guys grow up? A Michigan Revival Meeting, eh? ;-) I grew up in Pontiac, a blue collar factory town, about 1/2 mile from the Fischer Body plant...walked many a picket line in my youth...;-)"}, {"response": 190, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (12:28)", "body": "Grew up in Albany, New York.............but left in 73'."}, {"response": 191, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (12:41)", "body": "And for the favorite pizza person........ i found that it you use the pilsbury pizza dough it is pretty good, brush it with olive oil and heat it up first with nothing on it for about 3 to 5 minutesR 350 DEGREES then add just all fresh ingrediants......fresh tomatoes, parley, basil, oregano, thyme and ground pepper (both red and black).....Crushed red pepper is ok if you cannot find whole to grind..... then chopped onions, green and red peppers, sliced mushrooms..... then add a fresh ground italian sausage or a good hard sliced peperoni cover with a mixture of cheeses 50% shredded mozzerella and the other 50% a mixture of romano, parmasian, provalone and white chedder return to oven until cheese is melted........"}, {"response": 192, "author": "yairl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (18:55)", "body": "thanks tj but after having second thoughts about it i think i'll keep on letting dominos do the hard work. does anyone know anything about bangkok thailand i'm going to go there and i can realy use some guiding ."}, {"response": 193, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (21:20)", "body": "Kali, send me a splinter sometime! :)"}, {"response": 194, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (21:58)", "body": "You got it, Meggin! :)"}, {"response": 195, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (15:06)", "body": "Boy am I an outsider here! Never seen a game of baseball or whatever you're talking of with such eagerness.( Small chance in Sweden .) Have copied and saved those two delicious sounding pizza variations, though. And thanks Hilary for Tiger memento..."}, {"response": 196, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (15:42)", "body": "Come visit, Ann2, and we'll go to a game..."}, {"response": 197, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (00:16)", "body": "It was thirty years ago that we all met. Five very silly fourteen year old girls. Together we practiced for womanhood. Clothes, make-up, and boys. Little did we know that what really prepared us for the future was the simple act of being together. We would talk deep into the night. Eating junk food and chocolate, sipping sodas. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our cheeks. We grew up together, the five of us. Transforming from girls to young women. We ran gaily then. Each of us, one by one meeting, falling in love, and marrying our soul-mates. Those years were filled with bridal showers, weddings, baby showers, and chil d-birth. After each milestone we would gather, talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and chocolate, sipping wine. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears. Always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our heeks. We went head-strong into our thirties. Each developing a new found independence and calmness which comes when you have finally begun to feel comfortable with yourself. Our careers were established, our children growing, and all five marriages still stro ng. We had all done our jobs well. It was no problem to leave our families for short periods of time. It was then that we began our \"Enchanted April\" weekends. Off to the mountains or the ocean. Talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and choc late, sipping wine. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears. Always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our cheeks. Our thirties began to come to a close. Each time that we would meet, we would sound like a Jane Austen novel -- \"How is your mother?\" \"How is your father?\" -- this would follow with tales of illnesses and hospitals. When or how our chain calls started, I don't really remember. It was a instinctive reaction designed so that the sufferer would not have to repeat their story more than once. One would call the other, each in turn. \"One of us is hurting\" we would tell the next until we made a complete cir le. Again, we would gather. Talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and chocolate, sipping wine. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears. Always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our cheeks. One by one our parents began to leave us. We held hands and our breath and tip-toed into our forties. We now gathered most often at our parent's funerals. Although our husbands tried to comfort us, it was the five of us that we would seek. Talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and cho colate, sipping wine. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears. Always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our cheeks. Just this week another mile-stone has occurred. One of us became a widow. How can this be? Up until this moment, we all still remained with our one and only husbands. How lucky we were -- how well we choose -- how smug we were -- how fearful we are. Did we never think that this type of tragedy would happen? All along the chain call, each one said the same thing, \"I am so scared. We now must face the facts. There will be a time when one by one we will start loosing each other.\" Tomarrow we will bury her husband. After the sevices, when everyone else leaves, we will remain. Talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and chocolate, sipping wine. Speaking of our hopes, dreams, and fears. We will start out quite serious and somehow end laughing. Funny how there will still be tears enough to run down our cheeks. Thank you for letting me ramble."}, {"response": 198, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:03)", "body": "Oh, Candace - that is absolutely beautiful. Now where is that box of tissue! Please do share this with your five-some, too."}, {"response": 199, "author": "TJ", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "Candace..........THANKS"}, {"response": 200, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "Candace, it should really be the other way around....I thank you for letting me follow your rambling. I feel an ache in my throat and my eyes are a bit dim. This past autume my mother died and I miss her so. This life is ours to handle with care, and the way you and your friends do it together is just.... Oddly, I find it comforting that it is the same for us whoever or whereever... We must part from the one's we love. Better think of it now and then..."}, {"response": 201, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (12:22)", "body": "Candace -- what a beautiful \"ramble\" on the blessings of friends. Our thoughts are with you and your friends as you pass another milestone. (And my prayers are with your one friend who is going through this painful time.) Thank you for wanting to share this w/ us."}, {"response": 202, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "Thank you Candace for rambling and sharing so beautifully. When you think of the sadness, though, also consider the blessings of having five such good friends. It's so rare that friends can stay together through all the stages of their lives."}, {"response": 203, "author": "lilah", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (18:34)", "body": "Candace, that was moving, eloquent and beautiful. How lucky you are to have such friends to see each other through the inevitabilities of life. I lost my beloved father in August; watched my mom struggle with the transition into widowhood. That's when I saw the rituals and the resulting strength that a group of women friends give to each other, and that's when I realized I truly believe in a sisterhood. Thanks for sharing with us."}, {"response": 204, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (22:28)", "body": "Candace, my father died last week. The first person I really talked to about it was my best friend--her father died 18 months ago. We've been best buddy's since jr. high--a long time ago. Yet she still knows me better than anyone else, despite the fact that we now live miles apart. How lucky you are to have a group of friends to help support each other in time of need. No one else could make me laugh last week, but my friend Kathy could. That is what best friends are for."}, {"response": 205, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (23:33)", "body": "Everyone, I hate to break the sisterly mood created by Candace's lovely ramble, but it was recently revealed that our own Saman just got into medical school! Congratulations..."}, {"response": 206, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "Meggin, I am so sorry. Yours and Candace's story make me even more thankful my own mother is better all the time -- just learned two days ago that a heart oblation procedure done a few weeks ago had been successful even though at the time the doctors pron ounced it a failure. S'man, I am very very happy for you. I know how much you wanted this. You deserve it."}, {"response": 207, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (11:52)", "body": "\"...our own Saman just got into medical school! Congratulations... \" WOW This is so exciting - where will you do to school!!"}, {"response": 208, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "Way to go Saman!! I'm so sorry. Margaret."}, {"response": 209, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "My sympathies, Margaret, and all others who have recently lost family members or friends. It's a difficult time, I know, when good friends are invaluable. Congratulations, Saman! Does this mean we'll now have an \"ER\" topic here??"}, {"response": 210, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "Candace, that is one of the most eloquent, touching ramblings I have experienced. I have a photo in my family album of a group of women I know who match this description very closely. I miss having a similar relationship in my own life and it is touching to hear about it in anothers life. That's the photo on the left of the women I spoke, that's Ann Evans the bride, ex-mayor of Davis California who married a delightful Englishman named David. They are still living in Davis, CA as far as a I know. These women all grew up together. I'm very glad our week long task to put out the new Webstalker has been completed and the product is now being shipped out to reviewers and beta testers. This is the first free moment I've had in well over a week. I'm hoping to get together with the Unix team and the folks who inhabit this community today and tomorrow before I go back to the intense development effort I'm involved in right now. I'm sitting in my office/master bedroom in Cedar Creek looking out over the woods and pastures, feeling good. I've got the Wide World of Sports Ice Skating on the tube, this is one of the most esthetic and relaxing sports to watch. (more about this in a future ice skating topic in the sports conference). Ekaterina Gordeeva is skating now, what a fine skater."}, {"response": 211, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (17:24)", "body": "Margaret, please accept my sympathy. ] it was recently revealed that our own Saman just got into medical school! That's great Saman, will you be starting this year? You must be really busy as well as please. I hope you'll still be able to join us occaisionally if y ou have to relocate. Amy, I'm really glad to hear your mother is improving."}, {"response": 212, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (17:53)", "body": "Happy birthday Kathleen Elder!"}, {"response": 213, "author": "lilah", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "Margaret, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family."}, {"response": 214, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (19:45)", "body": "Margaret - I am very sorry you lost your father. Hope you and the rest of your family ware getting through this."}, {"response": 215, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (21:17)", "body": "Thank you to everyone for the responses to my essay. In truth, what I really thank you for is this wonderful forum and all my wonderful cyber friends. This was truly the best therapy. To Margaret -- I am so sorry for your loss. I lost my own father five years ago. I know exactly what you feel. Peace be with you all."}, {"response": 216, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (21:26)", "body": "Thanks to all for the expressions of sympathy. You have touched my heart."}, {"response": 217, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (08:22)", "body": "Margaret, otan osaa, as they say here in Finland. It could roughly be translated as \"I take a piece of your sorrow and carry it with me\", and means that I am very, very sorry about your father. Keep on smiling, though. Despite many things the world still is a beautiful place."}, {"response": 218, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (09:21)", "body": "otan osaa __ That is lovely Mixu"}, {"response": 219, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:31)", "body": "Terry, figure skating ranks right along with P&P on my list of things I really enjoy. Saturday the 'Stars on Ice' were in town and a group of 8 of us went to dinner and the show. The evening flew by and it is difficult to pick out the best, but Ecaterina's numbers were very special. Torvil and Dean were an awesome presence in the show. Hope some of the other contributors to this board have the opportunity to see this wonderful production. And thanks to you Terry for providing this great home for all f us."}, {"response": 220, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "Terry, figure skating ranks right along with P&P on my list of things I really enjoy. Saturday the 'Stars on Ice' were in town and a group of 8 of us went to dinner and the show. The evening flew by and it is difficult to pick out the best, but Ecaterina's numbers were very special. Torvil and Dean were an awesome presence in the show. Hope some of the other contributors to this board have the opportunity to see this wonderful production. And thanks to you Terry for providing this great home for all f us."}, {"response": 221, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "Oops, sorry for the extra post."}, {"response": 222, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (21:52)", "body": "I would kill (well almost) to see Torvil and Dean in person!"}, {"response": 223, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "Candace, let me tell you how very deeply touched I was by your \"ramble\", frienship, family and the act of sharing is at the core of the soul. Margaret, accept these thoughts of peace. Loosing someone close, whether one who's life as been a long fulfilled road or, has we experienced last week, loosing a little one who had so much to experience, is never easy. Let us rejoyce in the happiness of their newfound home/salvation. Amy, all my wishes of health for your mother."}, {"response": 224, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (08:03)", "body": "Amy, I am glad you liked the expression. I think the reason why we have \"otan osaa\" is because if we said \"Olen pahoillani\" (meaning \"I am sorry\") it would mean that I did the thing I am sorry for. Anyway, I like \"otan osaa\" myself. It even sounds nice. I just happen to love Finnish, and feel myself very fortunate that I have it as a 1st language."}, {"response": 225, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (12:25)", "body": "Mixu, I greatlly appreciate the kind sentiment expressed by \"otan osaa\". All of the words of sympathy expressed for me and my family have meant more to me than I could ever have believed possible. You all don't know me and you didn't know my father, yet so many of you have made such an effort to let me know that you care. I am overwhelmed by all of this. Johanne, you write of losing a little one. How terrible. My father was old and sick and in pain and I take a great deal of comfort in the thought that he is in a better place, having lived a full life with many joys. Johanne, my heart aches for you."}, {"response": 226, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (16:16)", "body": "Just to make things clear, I personnaly did not loose my child this past week, heaven forbid, I would'nt be able to be here at all, wondering if I would have any sanity left in such a short time. But my dear friend did loose her very soon expected baby and having lost one myself a couple of years ago, it stirred up memories. So close to the miracle of life but taken away a nano-second before. No choice but to confort ourselves with beliefs of a better place for them and the faith in a destiny much bigger than our mere comprehension may aloud. Thanks."}, {"response": 227, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (16:24)", "body": "Most people have no idea how much of a loss a miscarriage can be -- at any stage."}, {"response": 228, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "Most people also do not realise that 25-33% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. With such I high number, it should be more widely known."}, {"response": 229, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "AN ANNOUNCEMENT I have, this day, taken down all my Christmas decorations!!! *Applause* (Thank you, thank you very much! Now I just have to get it carried out to the garage!)"}, {"response": 230, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (16:23)", "body": "That is very good ,Cheryl . I have still the tree as it is so fresh and smells so good; I have not had the heart to throw it away. But I took away the last x-mas cloth the other day and have only kept one electric candlestick in the kitchen-window to brighten our dark and early mornings in January."}, {"response": 231, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (23:56)", "body": "Cheryl & Ann2 -- with both of your messages blinking at the same speed, I began to feel that Christmas was still here! To any interested viewers of CF movies: I recently loaned my copy of \"Dutch Girls\" to Mari. If you are interested in viewing it, let me know via email (kelder@miworld.net for home or k_elder@fre.fsu.umd.edu for work). I can ask Mari to send it to you when she has finished watching it. As long as I get it back sometime, I would be happy to share."}, {"response": 232, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (02:36)", "body": "ANTI-SUPER BOWL PARTY Grace and I were talking at Pemberley today, bemoaning a full day of the Football Fan's High Holy Day, when we decided that we should hold our own party at Pemberley! The madness, I mean game begins at 6pm EST, but the Pregame crap, I mean festivities start hours and hours before that. So the official party shall begin at 4pm EST, earlier if you cannot stand anymore of John Madden! ;-) Y'all come!"}, {"response": 233, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:13)", "body": "Who in your opinion was worse Dandy Don,Howard or John Madden?"}, {"response": 234, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:19)", "body": "Wow, Super Sunday is here. And we have cheeseheads and anti-Superbowl partyin'. Are you going to have your own anti-Superbowl half time show with entertainment?"}, {"response": 235, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:19)", "body": "If you are not watching but only hearing the noise, Madden's yelling is really grating. But! I don't have a football husband anymore. Yay!!!!!!!!"}, {"response": 236, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:20)", "body": "Hey, Terry, we posted at the same time. Are you a football fan? If you have time, would you look in deeper?"}, {"response": 237, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:21)", "body": "Madden's comments on the web are naive and comical. \"How do you dot com something?\""}, {"response": 238, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:22)", "body": "Amy throws a pass and Terry goes deep..."}, {"response": 239, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:32)", "body": "What?"}, {"response": 240, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "Missed signal. Let's try that play again."}, {"response": 241, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (16:29)", "body": "Cheryl, I am here. Where are you?? Your thoughts (in chat yesterday)about Darcy as a quarterback have sparked my interest in the game, football...that is. But remember...if you get to be the team masseuse, I get to do the locker room interviews, up close and oh so personal. One more thing.....about those whirlpool tubs for the athletes...are you sure they accommodate two comfortably???"}, {"response": 242, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (16:32)", "body": "Cheryl, I am here. Where are you?? Your thoughts (in chat yesterday)about Darcy as a quarterback have sparked my interest in the game, football...that is. But remember...if you get to be the team masseuse, I get to do the locker room interviews, up close and oh so personal. One more thing.....about those whirlpool tubs for the athletes...are you sure they accommodate two comfortably???"}, {"response": 243, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (18:00)", "body": "Grace: One more thing.....about those whirlpool tubs for the athletes...are you sure they accommodate two comfortably??? Some things are worth a little discomfort! ;-) (and I'm at Pemberley now...where are you, dearie?)"}, {"response": 244, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (01:20)", "body": "Sorry, I missed that party,Cheryl and Grace. But from what I hear it was not totally without sports, eyh eyh, nudge,wink?"}, {"response": 245, "author": "Grace", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (09:03)", "body": "Ann, Mostly we made sport of the Neanderthals sitting in front of the tube whooping and hollering over such a stupid game. You'll be pleased to know that after much discussion, we also did reach some consensus about those Lycra pants the gentlemen wear on the gridiron. Should have been there!"}, {"response": 246, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (00:37)", "body": "Congratulations, Kali! On receiving her first law school acceptance letter But we never had any doubt."}, {"response": 247, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (01:04)", "body": "Thank you, Amy dearest, for your encouragement and optimism. You're great! :)"}, {"response": 248, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (01:23)", "body": "Brava Kali"}, {"response": 249, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:05)", "body": "tHip Hip Hooray! (Which school was it?)"}, {"response": 250, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:06)", "body": "Hip Hip Hooray! (Which school was it?)"}, {"response": 251, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:06)", "body": "Hey! I did not post that twice - though it does bear repeating. ;-)"}, {"response": 252, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:20)", "body": "I have only one thing to say to you, my dearest niece... YAHOOOOOO!!!!"}, {"response": 253, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:48)", "body": "THanks guys! It was Georgetown, Joan...:)"}, {"response": 254, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (07:19)", "body": "But, of course, I'm not at all surprised. Congratulations daughter."}, {"response": 255, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (12:59)", "body": "Was it not Mr Bingley who found it amazing that young ladies can have patience to be so very accomplished?! And in our midst are several very accomplished, who also posess a certain something in their air, their adress and expressions. They study law, go to medical school and I know not what! Good luck, Kali! (Just saw you in Best of chat!)And Saman too!"}, {"response": 256, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "Congrats, Kali -- and may you receive many more happy responses! I hope you have a large field of choices (although Georgetown is certainly not too shabby)."}, {"response": 257, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (13:15)", "body": "Kali, Saman; go to it, girls!"}, {"response": 258, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "Isn't this great? We are all so proud, like a bunch of mother hens. It is sweet."}, {"response": 259, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (15:37)", "body": "CONGRATULATIONS Kali -- Georgetown is really great. Starting with the cream of the crop!! Congratulations also to Saman. What a bright bunch we have here - nice to know the next generation is in good hands!!;-)"}, {"response": 260, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (16:13)", "body": "Georgetown!! Great. congratulations, Kali"}, {"response": 261, "author": "alix", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "Congrats, Kali! I'm a UGA person, myself, but Georgetown is an awsome school. Just one question, what is a Hoya, exactly? I've heard so many things from people who go to Harrison High School as to what it is, but those Harrison people usually have problems with that whole collective reasoning/agreement thing! Sorry to those that I've offended, but at least McEachern can agree on their mascot. One more question, has anyone noticed that allmost all Latin teachers are either nutty absent minded professor types, or grandmothers-from-hell? Just a thought."}, {"response": 262, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (18:59)", "body": "Latin teachers? Our Latin teacher in high school was a messy genius type. Here at Cal, Professor Knapp is very normal. He's married, with kids, and very nice. so, you're a Dawg (woof woof woof!), Laura? Oh...and a hoya is actually a retaining wall (selected by students long, long, ago...). It has nothing to do with the bulldog that the athletic department took on as a mascot. --- Thank you for your interest and encouragement, guys...you're great!!!"}, {"response": 263, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "A hoya is a certain way of throwing a frisbee: Hold the frisbee with your first and second fingers on the inside with the second finger along the inside of the rim, place your thumb on the top of the frisbee, then hold the frisbee in a vertical position (perpendicular to the ground) over your shoulder, then in a motion similar to a baseball throw throw the frisbee with strength and with a flick of the wrist high into the air. The frisbee will then invert and float upside-down back to the earth--that is a oya!"}, {"response": 264, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "A hoya is an ornamental plant that grows well in hanging baskets and has tiny star-shaped flowers."}, {"response": 265, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:55)", "body": "Kali, I haven't been on here long, but want to say Congrats! Georgetown is pretty cool . . . and you must be pretty smart! But then we already knew that. Enjoyed seeing your picture."}, {"response": 266, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:15)", "body": "Thank you, Susan! Glad you liked the pic. Ann, Joan, I had no idea that a \"hoya\" was so many things! The Hoya Laura was refering to is the official Georgetown \"mascot\"...which is not a dog, but a retaining wall. I know not why that was chosen by early Georgetown students."}, {"response": 267, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (00:08)", "body": "WOW OF THE DAY! Henry's Jane Austen Info site was featured Monday on CNN Interactive: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9701/27/on.the.net/austen/ You know what I think is neat? That sometimes, once in a while, good content is discovered and recognized on its own merit. Nice job, Henry. You deserve the recognition."}, {"response": 268, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (03:29)", "body": "Woo-hoo, H..."}, {"response": 269, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (07:09)", "body": "That CNN write up is \"mah-ve-lous\" !!! Good work HC -- who's your publicist? ; )"}, {"response": 270, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "Congratulations Kali.......i did not notice but were you one of the non fans for football.......(I guess i could read back a bit and find out).........but to many of us out here Georgetown is to Basketball what Notre Dame is to Football.....hope you like b-ball........not just the fact they are two great catholic colleges......... Also has anyone tried to make either of the pizza's yet...........been curious to find out if you liked it"}, {"response": 271, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "Cool, HC! ;-)"}, {"response": 272, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "THank you, TJ...I like football alright, i guess...basketball even less...but then again, I don't go to school for the athletic departments! ;)"}, {"response": 273, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "Congratulations! HC. That's great publicity and a really nice write-up. IMHO You deserve all the accolades you can accumulate for your pages!"}, {"response": 274, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:52)", "body": "Congratulations! HC. That's great publicity and a really nice write-up. IMHO You deserve all the accolades you can accumulate for your pages!"}, {"response": 275, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Inko is obviously very excited! :)"}, {"response": 276, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (03:57)", "body": "Congratulations , Kali! (This is the 1st time I use blink... Take a deep breath and embrace yourself, because you deserve it (hug yourself for me, too!). Save the strength to be used later. I'll try to convince a tonttu (Finnish elf, a guardian spirit of places etc.) to follow you... If you think something invisible is living at your flat, just \"forget\" some food on the table - the tonttu loves it!"}, {"response": 277, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (08:53)", "body": "Hip Hip Hourra Henri If not for your webpages I probably would'nt be here, million thanks and **smoosh**"}, {"response": 278, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:07)", "body": "Johanne: million thanks and **smoosh** Johanne dear, is this the French equivelent of a *samooch*? ;-)"}, {"response": 279, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:11)", "body": "] Johanne: million thanks and **smoosh** Johanne dear, is this the French equivelent of a *samooch*? ;-) __ Wouldn't that be \"Mmmwwwa!\""}, {"response": 280, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:15)", "body": "If so, I think it should be spelled \"smouche\""}, {"response": 281, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "Okay, then I guess my \"Mmmwwwa\" would have to be MMMMMMMMoi!"}, {"response": 282, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:48)", "body": "Mmouah, Mmouah, Mmouah Amy, I like it very much. Mmouah Henri, and when kissed dearest, something else than the spelling should occupy your thoughts ;) Kissing Fest"}, {"response": 283, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:51)", "body": "Well, I think kissing is a fine topic for this place. I'd not be ashamed to have either Ayelet's mom or mine read about it. We start moving the schwinging today."}, {"response": 284, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (13:06)", "body": "We're moving the Schwinging?"}, {"response": 285, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (02:08)", "body": "I'm laughing my a** off as I type!"}, {"response": 286, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (21:31)", "body": "Kali -- A big Congrats!! Oh the places you'll go!!!"}, {"response": 287, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (03:43)", "body": "Thank you, dear Candace and Mixu..."}, {"response": 288, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "What a find :"}, {"response": 289, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "Congratulations, Kali"}, {"response": 290, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (11:39)", "body": "Congratulations to HC on Great CNN presentation ! By the way you must have been doing lots of work on that site this autumn if I remember correctly. I visited and used bibliographies before I found old P&P2 board, in September. Were the colours there then?. Looks nice and inviting."}, {"response": 291, "author": "del", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (17:15)", "body": "Relationship No ship, please. Not now. I haven't a captain nor a first mate \ufffd never mind a crew\ufffd It would take all my courage to try a relation inner tube. How about a relation floatie? Frozen margaritas in the pool some sultry summer night? Relation = Relative = Relativity = Energy = ME scared. Time flies when I'm fleeing fun. Marybeth Gradziel June 19, 1995 Reproduction We women need not be alone for long. We can grow friends. Find the right seed. Care for the sprout. and Enjoy the fruit of our labor. Marybeth Gradziel August 22, 1995 Dream Thought I understood it all one night. How men looking for women get mixed up, and flit from one to another \ufffd always looking for more. If only they knew\ufffd Inside every woman is an infinite number of other women just waiting for true love, trust and acceptance, to come out and love the man in an infinite number of womanly ways. Marybeth Gradziel August 24, 1995"}, {"response": 292, "author": "mich", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (16:26)", "body": "Very nice Doug,thanks for sharing"}, {"response": 293, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (19:51)", "body": "OJ verdict is in, not read. I have this terrible feeling something awful is going to happen."}, {"response": 294, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "I wish the media would stop making such a big deal of this. They are now saying that they will delay the President's state of the union address to wait for the reading of the verdict. Where are our priorities, for heaven sake???"}, {"response": 295, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:24)", "body": "I agree, Joan too. I was going to shut off the tv when I heard that there was this conflict about what to cover! (However, the snow/ice storm here cut off the cable before I could get to the remote. :-)) It is delightful to come to this civilized oasis, but I had intended to pay some attention to the President's address. Oh well, maybe I'll be a more informed citizen tomorrow."}, {"response": 296, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:25)", "body": "At least ABC is going ahead with the President's address as planned. I plan to compliment them excessively!"}, {"response": 297, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:26)", "body": "This is really scarry"}, {"response": 298, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "This is really scarry but on the other hand there's a lot of parodies outthere"}, {"response": 299, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:39)", "body": "My TV is broken, so I'm listening over NPR -- they haven't broken into the speech to announce the OJ verdict yet ;-)"}, {"response": 300, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:41)", "body": "Last message outdated -- State of Union solid but unmemorable... OJ verdict: GUILTY!!"}, {"response": 301, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:45)", "body": "The ultimate victory! ABC showed the President's entire speech - and then was still able to tune in to the trial just in time to get the verdict live . HA HA HA! Take that CBS and NBC!"}, {"response": 302, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:49)", "body": "I'm speechless....."}, {"response": 303, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:15)", "body": "I stayed on ABC all evening, and never realized that CBS and NBC were not on the President's speech. My feelings about the evening - what else is new???"}, {"response": 304, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:15)", "body": "I stayed on ABC all evening, and never realized that CBS and NBC were not on the President's speech. My feelings about the evening - what else is new??? Sorry, I'm feeling cynical!!;-)"}, {"response": 305, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "I'm speechless....."}, {"response": 306, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (00:21)", "body": "Clinton has an excellent sense of timing. He finished exactly as the verdict came in. Now that's a great politician!"}, {"response": 307, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (03:56)", "body": "He's a slick one, he is...;)"}, {"response": 308, "author": "Adi", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:22)", "body": "I'm in such a terrible mood, I had to share it with you: yesterday 73 Israeli soldiers were killed when 2 helicopters collided. Seventy-three young men! the majority of them were just twenty years old. they were just born and now they are dead... I know at least 2 of them (there are still 20 more names not published), and the feeling is awful. If they were killed because of the war in Lebanon - I could at least understand it, but they died because of a stupid mistake, and it was a horrible death (there was ammunition on the helicopters, and it caused fire and explosions when it crashed on the ground). everyone here are so sad. almost everyone knew someone that died. I wish things like that will never happen again to anyone in any place."}, {"response": 309, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "That's awful, Adi. Even if they had died in actual battle, would it have been worth it? I doubt it. Most wars today are such ego-vehicles that I have trouble justifying them. And I've always considered myself a hawk."}, {"response": 310, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "Deepest sympathy, Adi. It is always bad whenever young people have to die, but in such a horrible crash it seems even worse. Also agree with Kali, death in battle or in a war would not have made it worth it--but then I'm a dove!! I hate all wars and can see no logical reasons for them."}, {"response": 311, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (16:18)", "body": "Adi, I'm terribly sorry. If the helicopters were as explosive as you say, it's likely that they at least died instantly. I hope that's some comfort."}, {"response": 312, "author": "Adi", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (16:42)", "body": "Kali, of course it's not worth it, those lives are so precious. those boys should not die, period. but sometimes you just can't help it - our men soldiers don't \"play\" in war, they are defending our northern border from terrorist attacks and from missiles. so it's understandable to die while you are defending your love ones and practically giving them life. I can assure you that in this case no ego is involved. what's killing me is that those soldiers were the top of the top of the youth in Israel: they were fighters in their way to their missions in Lebanon. they weren't just \"Jobnicks\" [=this is the name to describe the men soldiers who do office jobs like clerks]. they were already risking their life in their jobs protecting the rest of us, so they should have a better destiny than they had..."}, {"response": 313, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (18:22)", "body": "Adi, I can't even begin to imagine how you must feel. But I am so sorry."}, {"response": 314, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (21:29)", "body": "Adi - I am so sorry. You are bringing the 'other side of the world' closer to all of us."}, {"response": 315, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (10:49)", "body": "Let me had my voice to Inko, Amy and all us in share this pain. We're thinking of you and all who is hurting."}, {"response": 316, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:26)", "body": "Let me add my sorrow, Adi. Life can be so unfair--the Israeli people have suffered so long; the endless war and persecution. So many Israeli youth gone in past mideast wars. Now, even technology revolts against them. And Israel the only real democratic state in the mideast. The older I get, the more I think the universe was somehow wrongly put together."}, {"response": 317, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "Too many have Carl, Israely and not, whether the're made knowns to us or kept in the back of the medias priorities. Too many innocent victims, especially children."}, {"response": 318, "author": "Adi", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:50)", "body": "Thank you all for your kind words. Carl, I never thought about it like that but I guess you're right: the universe was wrongly put together. God probably made a mistake when he placed Israel in the middle east. this was another horrible day. most of the funerals took place today. On the radio and T.V there were just quiet and sad songs, and between them - stories about the lives of all the dead soldiers, talks with their families and friends, talks with politicians and basically anything that could make you cry endlessly. I can't take it anymore. I wish this week will be over already."}, {"response": 319, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "I just had to stop by before I head to bed to recommend a show I just saw. If \"Riverdance - The Show\" comes to your town, RUN to get tickets! I don't think I've ever had two hours in the theatre pass so fast! I'm not even sure how to explain it to you...its main focus is traditional Irish dance, but there's Russian, Spanish, and American dances as well. The energy level is just phenomenal. Also, in the program there was an ad for \"Tap Dogs\" which will be in town in a couple of weeks. Am I right in remembering that this show was highly recommended here?"}, {"response": 320, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (04:03)", "body": "] \"Tap Dogs\" ... was highly recommended here? mmmmnnnnhhhhh! all male, more 'modern' than Riverdance (at least the shows I saw) but definitely worth a look..."}, {"response": 321, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (09:00)", "body": "Kathleen, I have seen these ads for \"Riverdance\" but I think it is to purchase the video. What area are you in? I don't think they are coming here."}, {"response": 322, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (15:56)", "body": "MY CAR JUST GOT STOLEN!!!!!"}, {"response": 323, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "So sorry Ann, hope nothing too valuable in it !"}, {"response": 324, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "Oh, Ann, I'm sorry."}, {"response": 325, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "That terrible. I'm so sorry Ann."}, {"response": 326, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (16:19)", "body": "That's awful, Ann. What a horrible annoyance x 50 plus disgust and inconvenience and I can't even think what else. Yuck."}, {"response": 327, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (16:28)", "body": "Oh, Ann, how awful. And it makes you feel so angry, helpless, violated -- a truly rotten experience. Were you at work or home when it happened? I hope you are OK."}, {"response": 328, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (17:25)", "body": "Ann, so very aggravating! Ok in body, if not spirit, I hope."}, {"response": 329, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (17:28)", "body": "Ann - That's terrible! Its one of those things that's hard to grasp - you know where you parked it and it takes a minute to register that it's really not there. Donna - I'm in the Detroit area. I don't know where its headed next, but hopefully it will end up near you soon. Anna - I think I'm going to check it out (Tap Dogs). :)"}, {"response": 330, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:03)", "body": "My car was parked in the lot in front of my apartment building and was probably stolen sometime last night. The cops were hopeful that they would be able to find it, but I doubt it. This is actually the second car that I've had stolen. The first one was stolen from my brother at gunpoint. The cops eventually recovered that one and the thief got 4 years in jail. Now I've lost another one. It is a pain in the neck to be carless. At least the weather won't be too bad for the next few days, so walking won't b too bad. Thanks for your messages."}, {"response": 331, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:39)", "body": "That's really bad news Ann. I hope you were covered and you get some new wheels soon. What kind of car was it?"}, {"response": 332, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:50)", "body": "1989 Jeep Cherokee Limited Edition with tinted windows and leather seats! I inherited it from my parents when they bought a Land Rover. It is a very popular car among thieves, but is getting on in years. I don't think there is any chance that I will be able to replace it with a comperable vehicle."}, {"response": 333, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (20:14)", "body": "Very sad indeed Ann. I do hope you get it back."}, {"response": 334, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "Ann, what a bummer!"}, {"response": 335, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (22:20)", "body": "Ann, I'm somewhat new here -- where do you live? I'm so sorry to hear about your rig; Jeep Cherokees are cool. You have a good attitude about it, though. Hang in there and keep your chin up."}, {"response": 336, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (22:37)", "body": "I live in Minneapolis, not the best place to be carless in the middle of winter. I figure that there is nothing I can do about it. It's just going to be a pain in the butt to get it replaced!"}, {"response": 337, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (23:14)", "body": "I lived and worked in Mpls without a car for about a year. I worked as a city planner till I left there in a schoolbus that I recycled into an \"rv\". Bought it from the Owatonna School district. But that was then. In today's world, getting around in a good car is more of a necessity. I really liked the town, I met some very good people there."}, {"response": 338, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (00:07)", "body": "Will be sending good thoughts your way, Ann. Keep thinking positive. Hope this next week brings better things."}, {"response": 339, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (03:44)", "body": "Suck."}, {"response": 340, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (14:05)", "body": "Good news : THEY FOUND MY CAR!!! I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know how much damage was done. I know they broke a window and had to damage the ignition to start it. Thanks to everybody for your support, I'm sure it showed up so quickly because I had so many people thinking about it across the world. Thanks to all!"}, {"response": 341, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (14:06)", "body": "I didn't realise that yapp takes the word news and makes it into a link!!!"}, {"response": 342, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "Ann, that's terrific. I hope you can get your car fixed and functional really soon. Glad you didn't have to wait too long to find out about it, either."}, {"response": 343, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "Ann, it's wonderful!!! You did get lots of instant support, and I'm sure it helped."}, {"response": 344, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:38)", "body": "Hope everything works out, Ann!"}, {"response": 345, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:45)", "body": "Gee, maybe we should start charging -- strangers, that is -- for this psychic service. Woman power. Be afraid. (Hil, did you start that \"be very afraid\" stuff?\") Very glad to hear it, Ann."}, {"response": 346, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (19:27)", "body": "Ann, So glad they found your car. Hope it'll be driveable soon!! There is a terrific review of P&P2 in today's NY Times by Christoper Lehmann-Haupt, a book reviewer. He compares P&P2 to the book and likes it very well indeed, better than any other Austen adaptation. Link is: http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/arts/tv-austen-review.html"}, {"response": 347, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (19:37)", "body": "That is an increadible review!! (By the way, you probably have to register at the NYTimes site before you can view the stories there. I would heartily recommend that you do. The NYTimes site is one of the best newspapers on the web and includes most, if not all, of the printed paper (including the crossword puzzle!!))"}, {"response": 348, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (20:06)", "body": "I have sent the NYTimes a E-letter in response to this article. I thought I would share it with all of you: Dear Sir or Madam, Your reporter, Christopher Lehmann-Haupt, is not the first to fall in love with the BBC/A&E production of Pride and Prejudice. This production in particular, and Jane Austen in general, has a large and loyal following on the internet. There are several sites which have been founded specifically for the purpose of discussing this production, and which have subsequently been broadened to include all of the works of Jane Austen. Other sites have been established solely to provide information and access to Au ten's works on the internet. Some of the URL's are as follows: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janeinfo.html http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/all/new (requires registration) http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wwwboard/ppbb.html It is suprising to me that she, of all authors, has such a strong following in cyberspace. I am continually amazed by the wide variety of Jane Austen information available on the internet, as well as the variety of people interested in her work. The virtual community which has been created around an interest in Jane Austen includes men and women, it includes people from the age of nine to well over sixty, and spans several continents and languages. It represents the best of what the internet can be by bringing together so many people in so many different walks of life, races, and cultures. We have come together and have indeed formed a community. We cry together when one of us suffers from a loss of a loved one, and we celebrate when one of us pa ses a milestone in life. We support eachother, even though few of us have ever met or even know what the others look like. We are grateful to Miss Austen for giving us the reason come together, and are grateful to the BBC/A&E production for introducing so many of us to her work. I am glad that your paper has recognised this wonderful production, which has brought so many people to enjoy Pride and Prejudice and Jane Austen, and which has brought so many of us together in cyberspace. Thank you, Ann Elizabeth Haker haker001@tc.umn.edu"}, {"response": 349, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "As Lizzie would say \"Beautiful\"."}, {"response": 350, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (22:03)", "body": "Great news Ann. Whewwww! * slaps Ann a high five *"}, {"response": 351, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (22:27)", "body": "Ann, what are we going to talk about next? Do keep us posted regarding your now recovered vehicle."}, {"response": 352, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (22:53)", "body": "Did someone save the review -- it's expired from the NY Times site..."}, {"response": 353, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:00)", "body": "Yes, it did expire. I did a search and found an old review about JA which listed your site HC."}, {"response": 354, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:00)", "body": "February 8, 1997 CRITIC'S NOTEBOOK / By CHRISTOPHER LEHMANN-HAUPT 'Pride and Prejudice': A Great Movie of a Great Book Plenty of bad movies have been made of good books, and a fair number of good movies have come from bad books. But a great movie of a great book? Speaking from a book reviewer's vantage point, I nominate Jane Austen's \"Pride and Prejudice,\" a co-production of the BBC and A&E, which is being rebroadcast by A&E in two parts, on Saturday and Sunday. I had missed the production the first time around, but when a friend lent me the tapes, I was instantly and completely caught up by the Bennet family and the thwarted romances of the two eldest daughters, Jane and Elizabeth. I did not get free until I had watched the entire five-hour production three or four times. The Bennets' world seemed more real than mine. I found myself repeating the memorable lines. I caught myself humming the music. As with a really good book, I discovered more and more to enjoy as I grew familiar with the main action and could concentrate on the smallest of details: for example, the way you can still overhear Miss Caroline Bingley (played with grand imperiousness by Anna Chancellor) after the camera has shifted away from the reception line at the Netherfield ball. But best of all was the way the film spurred me to read the book again after 40 years and to re-experience as literature the wayward romances of Jane and Elizabeth Bennet with Charles Bingley and Fitzwilliam Darcy. Surprisingly, the book proved somewhat disappointing at first. As the friend who lent me the tapes rightly put it when I asked him how the book compared with the film, \"It makes you fear for literature.\" \"Oh! Shocking!\" as Miss Bingley would say. To admit that the literalness of film might surpass the stimulus to the imagination of Austen's language. \"Abominable!\" But this was my experience at first. And it is not simply to be explained by the inherent vividness of film as a medium or by the masterly performances of Jennifer Ehle as Elizabeth, Colin Firth as Darcy, David Bamber as Collins, Crispin Bohham-Carter as Charles Bingley, Adrian Lukis as Lt. George Wickham and Barbara Leigh-Hunt as Lady Catherine. Other films of Austen's novels I happen to have seen don't come near to offering the pleasures of this production. One need hardly consider the 1940 Hollywood movie directed by Robert Leonard, with its mangled script (by Aldous Huxley yet!) draining the story of all dramatic tension, its miscasting of a too-old Greer Garson as Elizabeth and its simpering performance by Laurence Olivier as Darcy. Both the \"Emma\" starring Gwyneth Paltrow and a forthcoming BBC/A&E co-production of the novel with Kate Beckinsale (to be shown on A&E on Feb. 16) are entertaining enough but seem thin compared with Austen on paper. While Emma Thompson's \"Sense and Sensibility\" has much to recommend it, it suffers considerably from the lack of the novel's ironic narrative voice, which mercifully distances the reader from the excesses of its two leading characters. And \"Persuasion,\" while the best of the feature-length adaptations of Austen, is so brilliantly cinematic that one almost misses Austen's narrative voice. Moreover, it is not nearly as faithful to the original as the film of \"Pride and Prejudice\" is, and one has to have read the novel to understand certain subplots that are barely touched upon in the movie. (I have not seen the 1985 BBC production of \"Pride and Prejudice,\" directed by Cyril Coke, or the movie \"Clueless.\") In \"Pride and Prejudice,\" an early work of Austen's (at least in its original form, completed in 1797 and titled \"First Impressions\"), little distance exists between the narrator and the viewpoint of the leading characters. In fact, the narrator's outlook is close to that of Elizabeth, who, except for the prejudice that prevents her from seeing the truth about the deceptively charming Wickham and the too-proud Darcy, is one of the most liberated women in all of literature, especially impressive considering the narrowness of the society she lives in. So \"Pride and Prejudice\" translates easily onto the screen. True, the initial hostility between Elizabeth and Darcy is more deeply and subtly developed in the book. And we understand more clearly the extent to which Mr. and Mrs. Bennet are alienated as husband and wife. But consider how the film improves on the book. Take, for instance, the introduction of Collins, the cousin of the Bennets who is to inherit their estate. In the book, Bennet reads aloud the letter to him from Collins detailing how he wishes to \"heal the breach\" that subsists \"between yourself and my late honored father\" and how he plans to visit the Bennets. The family then reacts to the letter, noting the pompousness of its style. A few paragraphs later, the text announces: \"Mr. Collins was punctual to his time, and was received with great politeness by the whole family.\" In the film, Bennet starts reading the letter, but Collins' voice"}, {"response": 355, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:41)", "body": "Amy, thanks for sharing ... but we already knew P&P2 was addicting and very difficult to improve upon. This just proves the point. (Although I don't necessarily agree with his opinions regarding other adaptations)."}, {"response": 356, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "Sounds like Christopher needs to be sent our URL so he may continue to wallow with the rest of us! ;-)"}, {"response": 357, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "Ann, thanks so much for e-mailing the N.Y. Times. I think it's great that they know their article is appreciated and that there is a bunch of us out in cyberspace who feel the same way their reviewer does! And thanks, Amy, for getting the article here. I wasn't sure how to do that. After all, that was my first link ever!! I'm learning, but ever so slowly!! BTW, I watched A&E tonight but I was disappointed--I really missed all the extra scenes I have on my tapes, and I hate being interrupted by commercials all the time! But it allowed me to get some work done and listen to it in the background!"}, {"response": 358, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (00:28)", "body": "Inko: BTW, I watched A&E tonight but I was disappointed--I really missed all the extra scenes I have on my tapes, and I hate being interrupted by commercials all the time! But it allowed me to get some work done and listen to it in the background! YES Inko! Me too! In fact I only watched the last 15 minutes...the proposal scene...ooh baby, lots of heat in that room! ;-)"}, {"response": 359, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (17:54)", "body": "Susan: but we already knew P&P2 was addicting and very difficult to improve upon. This just proves the point. Yes, Susan, but what delighted me about the article was that a big cheese like Lehmann-Haupt, who as regular book critic for the New York Times holds a high position in literary circles, would admit in public to being as obsessed with a t.v. adaptation as an ordinary mortal! P&P2 conquers ALL!"}, {"response": 360, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (18:05)", "body": "Ann - I am making my way into this conversation late - like Mr. Woodhouse. I am glad they found your car - please let us know more as you get it back and back into working order. Thanks for the letter and the article."}, {"response": 361, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "I have just been reading back, having not visited for a while. Adi, I wish I knew some way of comforting you. I hope as time moves on you will feel better. Amy (#345),not me, I think?????....I don't think I'm that scary!"}, {"response": 362, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (21:25)", "body": "I guess this topic got kicked out of Austen!"}, {"response": 363, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (06:36)", "body": "Ramblings, everyone! I have a terrible flu, am low on cash, and on a tight schedule. And yes, I almost forgot: I'm also turning 27 on Thursday! I'm beginning to feel old... On the other hand, it's Valentine on Friday, so: Happy Valentine! Thank you for letting this off my mind. I feel better already. I'll see you next week!"}, {"response": 364, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "beginning to feel old??????????? old is just a state of mind....take it from someone who is about to celebrate the 21st anniversary of his 21st birthday........."}, {"response": 365, "author": "fuzz", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "I have just browsed down through the responses, all 364 of them and find them to be interesting. I thought this would be more of a political discussion than I have found, but am certainly glad for the camaradery."}, {"response": 366, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (21:50)", "body": "Welcome Don! Hope you keep checking back in with us."}, {"response": 367, "author": "fuzz", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "Thanks for the welcome. Where does peoples interest lie? I would be interested in people that have ideas that would lead to organizing the State Univ. of New York (SUNY) students into a voting block, or at least a political voice with a little muscle. I think it is a damn shame what the SUNY Board of Trustees are trying to do to the state system."}, {"response": 368, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (03:22)", "body": "Open a topic in politics, the conference."}, {"response": 369, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Tue, Apr  8, 1997 (12:53)", "body": "You guys are very interesting but I'm not sure how I fit in since I'm going to go out on a limb here and actually say I'm not a huge Austen fan--I like what I've seen but I guess it didn't hit me the way it hit you all (so what am I doing here? long story). But you welcome even lukewarm fans, eh? You seem like a nice bunch folks, you won't wallop me, right?"}, {"response": 370, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Apr  8, 1997 (19:37)", "body": "You're cool. Come on out and play!"}, {"response": 371, "author": "mtlady", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (15:16)", "body": "I wrote my intro. in another section. I heard today that there is a virus out there and it comes in your e mail and says from aol and states free aol on line and when you open it your entire system is wiped out including your antivirus programs. I figure it is for real because the alert was from washington and sent out to gov. fac. recieved in Atlanta at a gov. research fac. anyone heard about this?"}, {"response": 372, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "No, can you provide more details. Is it documented anywhere on the web or is there any anti-virus company that recognizes it. Have you contacted the folks at F-Prot or Norton to see if it's real. An email to them might clear things up."}, {"response": 373, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "My,my, my... Terry, this has really grown since last I checked in. At the Denver Public Library today. Brandon is on a plane bound for Philly and I'm cold and lonely. The weather is bringing me down. The middle of April. 10 degrees. Six inches of melting snow. My flowers, the ones I planted three weeks ago, will never bloom. Sad. I'm checking out a Kabir poetry book, an Aaron Copland CD and several other random fiction stories -- sci-fi, romance, modern weird, you know... a little bit of everything to help me get through the week. Miss Austin, miss warm weather. Need a cup of caffeine and a chocolate macad mia cookie. Mountain biking and skating are on hold until the snow melts and the trails dry up. Thinking fondly of my former life..."}, {"response": 374, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (17:27)", "body": "Wow, Miss Stace' checkin' in... glad you found some access. Are those Interent terminals very busy? Isn't it cool that libraries have net access now. Nearly all the Austin libraries have net access. I get Denver stations on my satellite dish so I got a little glimpse at your weather. I won't mention what kind of day we're having in Austin or that all the plants all over are in multi-colored profusion. Do you go snow skiing? That would seem a natural for you with your athleticism. Have you been in any more ironman competitions (run, swim, bike)? Well, enough of this indoor activity for now, time to get outdoors. Keep on checkin' in, Stacey!"}, {"response": 375, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Apr 14, 1997 (09:23)", "body": "Stacey stacey check back in! I'm a desperately unhappy Dallasite longing to relocate to Denver/Boulder. Please give me some words of encouragement while I wait out this interminable job-hunt. I miss Austin, too--partly why I'm heading for D/B! It's the closest I've found to that great Austin ambience. Guess I'll trade hellishly hot summers for frosty winters!"}, {"response": 376, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (12:57)", "body": "well, I'm bummed...one of the 2 main potential employers I'm looking at in Denver now lists \"no jobs available\" on their home page (they used to have half a dozen) and the other one still has the 2 unsuitable-for-me jobs they've been listing since Feb. Time to do more searching and sending."}, {"response": 377, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (21:18)", "body": "Did you get in touch with Stacey yet?"}, {"response": 378, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (21:42)", "body": "Have you thought about moving to Austin? Just a thought."}, {"response": 379, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (13:18)", "body": "Like I said in one of my many intros, it would be a dream come true to return to Austin, the town of my heart. Unfortunately, the reality is that I am just too old to live in the squalor afforded by the measly salaries paid for my line of work in Austin...so I visit and dream..."}, {"response": 380, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (13:33)", "body": "Plus I'm just too dainty these days for the blistering hellfire of those Austin summers (they made a man of me in my 20s, but now...I can't breathe!)...like Colo winters will be any less hellish!"}, {"response": 381, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (23:37)", "body": "What work do you do again?"}, {"response": 382, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Apr 18, 1997 (08:07)", "body": "Molecular biology (got my MD, quit my residency, took up lab work). Sadly, the labs in Austin are easily staffed by peons fresh out of college willing to work for peanuts. There is Ambion, the lone industry. Perhaps I should give them a whirl, see if they'd be willing to pay me vast sums of money to enjoy the Austin ambience...."}, {"response": 383, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Apr 19, 1997 (00:25)", "body": "Talk to my friend Bob Nagy who works at UT Botany when he gets over his throat surgery (about a week). He's mailto://bob@spring.com He may be able to help steer you in the right direction. I'll mention him to you. His home page is at http://www.spring.com/~kreblon There's hope!"}, {"response": 384, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Apr 21, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "You are very kind, terry. I will definitely look there! Sadly, UT is the lowest-paying, but what the heck, I'll see what's up. My ramble for today: I changed the tire on my car ALL BY MYSELF!!! last Saturday. I'm so proud of myself. Plenty of lacrimal lubrication to get the lugs off (fortunately this all took place in the privacy of my own driveway)!"}, {"response": 385, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Apr 22, 1997 (23:26)", "body": "The folks I know there love it. Despite the low pay. They like the relaxed atmosphere and benefits."}, {"response": 386, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (08:55)", "body": "As indeed I did during the 3 1/2 years I toiled in the Micro dept--great people and a fine ambience (ESB is a cool bldg)--much better than the tense unsmiling environs of UTSWMC Dallas! I'll see what the pay scale is for my now-advanced status (cf my previous inexperienced level), eh. I just need enough to pay the vet bills and the car repairman!"}, {"response": 387, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (09:24)", "body": "And apropos of nothing, let me just rant about my pet peeve, trafficwise: so you're tooling along virtually alone on the road (plenty of oncoming traffic)(but no one near you in your direction). Mr Doofus is exiting a parking lot, wants to join you on the road. He sees you 10 blocks away and waits. And waits. And waits. When you are right upon him, mere inches from his front bumper, he EASES his tuna boat out directly in front of you. Having used up every last ounce of driving courage on this bold m neuver, he proceeds to drive 5 mph for a block or two, then slams on his brakes without warning, apparently (why use a turn signal? HE knows where he's going) wishing to turn left past all the oncoming traffic. So the pair of you spend eternity waiting for a brek in traffic sufficiently large to accomodate a tuna boat driven by a moron whose used up all his courage. Not a soul behind you; he could have done all of this after you passed, but NOOOOO, he HAD to pull in front of you. Thank you and good ni ht. seriously, any other traffic annoyances out there? Or do I just need to get the idiot magnet removed from my front bumper?"}, {"response": 388, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "sorry about the typos--combination of spleen-venting and weird response frame (I can't see half of what I type!)"}, {"response": 389, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (09:28)", "body": "I'm over in Austin rambling, go back to main menu, see there's a new response in porch, come over here, and it's ME! This is too fun, chatting with myself (are the voices in my head bothering you?)."}, {"response": 390, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (13:03)", "body": "And I return hours later,see another new response, and whaddaya know--ME AGAIN!"}, {"response": 391, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 24, 1997 (13:04)", "body": "AUBREY RULES THE WORLD!! I am the only responder! I am queen of everything! Ruler of mesopotamia! Goddess of The Spring!"}, {"response": 392, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 24, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "Well, you see, aubrey, the 'ramble' topic is actually replicated throughout several conferences and forms sort of a common thread through all these conferences. It started out in the austen conference and spread out from there (though it's no longer linked to austen after the major metamorphosis it went through. Anyone see the story on the WELL in the latest issue of Wired? Two folks I know pretty well, Cliff Figallo (fig@well.com) and John Coate (tex@well.com) are on the cover looking like guys out of the Xfiles. Also pictured is Stewart Brand. I was one of the original members of the WELL and much of the inspiration for the Spring comes from what Cliff and John did at the WELL, even the name was originally a play on the WELL. Anyway, check it out."}, {"response": 393, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Apr 25, 1997 (08:13)", "body": "I thought someone was typing in porch while I was typing in austin. Ddidn't realize the computer wouldn't be able to figure out it was me all the time. Will look for Wired and your pals. You're a funny man of the spring/well/geyser."}, {"response": 394, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 30, 1997 (09:10)", "body": "Once again, aubrey is the queen of all she surveys! I rock the Spring! I am so large and in charge! I think I will chat with myself a while...."}, {"response": 395, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 30, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "I've been offline here about 3 days, I'll be getting back on soon."}, {"response": 396, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, May  2, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "But I'm having sooo much fun! I NEVER get to be the one in charge! However, you are better at it than me...Fun in the lab: I was doing an experiment yesterday that required the use of some truly noxious organic chemicals; when I was pouring them out under the fume hood (like one of those kitchen range exhaust fans, only it's enclosed on 3 1/2 sides)(designed to suck away noxious vapors so they don't enter the lab) I couldn't quite reach the sink at the back of the hood, so without thinking I NATURALLY tuck my head under the hood to get better leverage...just a half a whiff of that stuff and I blacked out and hit the floor. Yikes-a-hootey! I'm still reeling from the shock a day later! Maybe I should consider a different profession? One that doesn't require frequent use of noxious and dangerous chemicals and gene-altering isotopes?"}, {"response": 397, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May  2, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "I wondered why you hadn't been posting for a couple of days! Wow! Take it easy there. Glad you back with the conscious folks. You're set up as a telnetter now! Let me know if you have any questions about how to use the telnet / yapp interface."}, {"response": 398, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (09:08)", "body": "Well, terry, I've tried every way I can but I still seem to have some sort of block vis a vis telnet. I can get to stroud (but only via typing it into netscape or clicking on the url you left me in tv conf--the url on the welcome page still doesn't work), but get lost therafter. There is a ws-ftp to click on at one point in the depths of Stroud, but my choice seems to be to download it, which (since this is NOT my own computer) I am a bit leery of. There is no Windows95 choice. On this computer (NOT i NetScape) there is a ws-ftp icon which I played with a little, but it couldn't find telnet://www.spring.com so I stopped (but now my password and name are on the ws-ftp page). Maybe I should try this from a personal personal computer (my brother is a computer jockey; I will enlist his help)."}, {"response": 399, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (09:10)", "body": "Where the hell did THAT come from???? All I did was type in the letters for that telnet thing and it went purple!!! Does that work for other sites? http://www.vabeach.com for example?"}, {"response": 400, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "Help terry I'm scaring myself--every time I type in a url it lights up. Did I sniff too much pet ether last week or is this the glorious result of being a telnet gal? Yikes! Stop me before I hurt someone! So that vabeach url is from my e-pal who wants so desperately to join the Spring but cannot get on. I don't know what the site is, it was just the first thing I tried! AND IT WORKS! This is toooo spooooooky for me. How does the computer know where to go if I didn't tell it?"}, {"response": 401, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (09:58)", "body": "Terry I am serious, this is WAY too spooky: I sent an e-mail (via NetScape)to my bros requesting their assistance in this telnet thing, and when I typed in the spring telnet url thingie, IT LIT UP! WHY IS THIS SUDDENLY HAPPENING?? As you will note from my previous comments, I never used to be able to do lit-up urls--when I suggested websites to my e-pals, they never lit up before. How does the computer know I have a telnet account when I'm not logged on that way? IS BIG BROTHER WATCHING ME? I'm getti g paranoid!"}, {"response": 402, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (12:38)", "body": "I just left a lot of responses in ramble via telnet (with the kind assistance of my e-pal and my brother) and they didn't show up here. What's up?"}, {"response": 403, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "And now my responses are gone from telnet, although that last response (left via the website) showed up on telnet. I am deeply confused. Plus, where are the messages left for me in telnet by my e-pal pungo? Terry, take my hand and leadeth me beside the spring waters, for I knoweth not what is happen."}, {"response": 404, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (13:38)", "body": "what happens to the stuff I write here? It vanished! Hmmmm, I went to the web spring and typed that above message in, and when I came back, this last telnet response was still here... I think I need someone else to chat with for this to work? \".\""}, {"response": 405, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "Terry you'd better get here quick. My computer is now sassing back at me. I was roaming around telnet in ramble and it informed me \"a message entered before yours at 403\"--I don't know what it's talking about, but that's pretty spooky. Truly bizarre, tho--I asked it to take me to tv conf, but before it would it asked \"do you feel more enlightened now?\" WHO IS TALKING TO ME???? Are the voices in my head bothering anyone else?"}, {"response": 406, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "response 404 is me in telnet. \".\" is me trying to leave! What happened to my first set of responses a few hours ago? Why did that STUPID response show up? Where did my name come into all of this?"}, {"response": 407, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Keep after it aubrey, you'll catch on. This telnet stuff really does work!"}, {"response": 408, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Tue, May  6, 1997 (07:49)", "body": "It may work for you. It just scares me."}, {"response": 409, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May  6, 1997 (09:15)", "body": "It's not all that scary. What editor are you using? vi or pico?"}, {"response": 410, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (08:13)", "body": "ummmm...I am my own editor? Let me ask the computer god who runs the show around here. He's nice and knows everything about our set-up (he should, since he set it up!)."}, {"response": 411, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (08:23)", "body": "I couldn't find anywhere in tv conf to put this, so I'll just yammer away here: last night I got to watch a tv pilot. It was not so good but it was fun getting to watch something that may or may not be a show. The only person I recognized was Cynthia Geary from NExp (so maybe this should go there). It was a lame sitcom about a totally uninteresting couple of 20somethings getting married and all the trouble with involving their families in the wedding (his: NY Jew, hers: Southern crackers; hi-jinks ens e!). You think I could parlay this into a career? I can critique potential shows from the comfort of my own living room! Or not."}, {"response": 412, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (09:13)", "body": "You might want to hold on to your day job till you explore this a little more."}, {"response": 413, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (13:02)", "body": "It's so exciting to have you here during the day, terry! I like! So what, you think they won't pay me vast sums of money to sit around bitching about others' lack of creativity? Am I doomed to knocking myself out with organic solvents for the rest of my natural life? Breathe in, breathe out...."}, {"response": 414, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (18:33)", "body": "Are you and telnet getting along now?"}, {"response": 415, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, May  8, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "Well, not exactly. I've asked my brother the computer chimp to help me out (so don't be surprised if you read some really dull test messages here--I gave him my logon to work it out for me) so we'll see what he comes up with. My friend pungo has given up completely on The Spring (he e-mailed you for help and didn't hear back and since I can't find him on telnet he's going to find somewhere else for us to play--but I'll still be here!). I prefer the web-nased bbs rather than telnet. Maybe I'm a sucker or cool graphics (also this computer is pretty fast) or whatnot. What again are the advantages to telnet?"}, {"response": 416, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, May  8, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "That's \"web Based\" bbs!"}, {"response": 417, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, May  8, 1997 (12:12)", "body": "Oh yeah the tv pilot people never called me for my opinion--what have you been telling them about me, terry?"}, {"response": 418, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, May  9, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "The tv pilot people called last night; apparently the wrong show got beamed out so they didn't even interview me. My shiny new career vanishes like a candle in the wind...."}, {"response": 419, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May  9, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "like the old Elton John song."}, {"response": 420, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, May 14, 1997 (14:10)", "body": "how time does fly! I can't believe it's been so long since I've logged in. Boss-man really has me totin barges and liftin bales. Plus I've walked out on him a couple of times in the middle of the workin day when he starts smokin in the lab. Anyway, I got a phone interview, out of the blue, from Amgen, a company I applied to back in Feb--thought they'd forgotten all about me but apparently not. I am hopelessly unqualified for the job in question, plus it's in 1K Oaks CA where I'll never live, but who ares! I'll take the interview process as far as she'll go. I need the practice. Hey, also my bro in Denver has mentioned an editing job (for medical journals) so maybe I'll get something after all!"}, {"response": 421, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 14, 1997 (16:17)", "body": "I just got offered a webmaster job in Calif and a system network job for Compaq, but I got an even better job offer inAustin. So I'll stick around."}, {"response": 422, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, May 15, 1997 (08:06)", "body": "But even if it weren't a better offer--you'd stay in Austin, right? Calif can't compare! Do you have to move to do a computer job? Can't they just link you up or something and let you stay in that fair city?"}, {"response": 423, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 15, 1997 (08:15)", "body": "I would probably stay. If it were Northern Calif I'd be more tempted. I had a good dinner last night with Doug Larue and he has some ideas for pumping up the Spring and Capcity. Doug is a very talented designer and editor of Capitol City Arts and Entertainment magazine. We're working on ways to build traffic and to attract more dedicated websites."}, {"response": 424, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, May 16, 1997 (13:36)", "body": "I can't wait! I'm all aglow! More people would be grrrreat. I've been spending time on another website (wbs.net) and while it's fun having \"live\" conversations, the people and topics are lame. More people here would be ideal. Let me know if I (useless as I am) can help--I'm still doing word-of-mouth promotions to everyone I meet who uses computers."}, {"response": 425, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May 16, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "Anything you can do would help. I'm working 12 hours a day now so it's harder to promote this thing."}, {"response": 426, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (08:26)", "body": "Terry you must relax! Austin is for slackers! Please tell me you will not keep up this pace. Breathe in, breathe out..."}, {"response": 427, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (12:54)", "body": "I think I pumped it up a bit here on Sunday night. Take a look around and you'lll see some action, Aubrey."}, {"response": 428, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Sun, May 25, 1997 (09:20)", "body": "Where have I been??? I'm back now!"}, {"response": 429, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Sun, May 25, 1997 (09:28)", "body": "hahahaha and I'm STILL fooling myself with this ramble-in-many-conferences gag! every time I put in a response I go and check the other conference!! I have a memory span the size of a GNAT!!!"}, {"response": 430, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, May 25, 1997 (09:43)", "body": "I'm heading off to TJ Cellery's big party today, he's one of our posters in the sports conference and he's got bands, darts, and all kinds of activities going on out in Lake Bastrop today and tomorrow. It's already been going on for two days."}, {"response": 431, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Tue, May 27, 1997 (08:26)", "body": "Hope you had fun terry. I linked the spring from my \"home page\" (such as it is) on wbs.net--hope that's ok!"}, {"response": 432, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May 27, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "It's more than ok."}, {"response": 433, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, May 27, 1997 (21:38)", "body": "Hiya! Once again found myself within 3 yards of a computer and had to say hello! Miss you. Miss Austin. Should be back in late June early July. We'll do the Dog&Duck/veggie burger thing! Spring has finally reached Denver! Yea! Camping, biking and beer guzzling for Memorial Day. JuneFest this weekend -- more beer, camping and biking! Hope all is well with EVERYONE -- too many new people, I feel lost Paul! Smiles and hugs!"}, {"response": 434, "author": "ginger", "date": "Wed, May 28, 1997 (00:50)", "body": "We had a great party out in Bastrop at TJ Cellery's digs, he had live bands, horseshoes, good friends, great food and four frolicking days. He's been doing this for 25 years now (all around the country). Too bad about the Avs' Stacey Leigh!"}, {"response": 435, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 28, 1997 (07:56)", "body": "Stacey, did you hear about Don moving out to Denver?"}, {"response": 436, "author": "msegal", "date": "Thu, May 29, 1997 (10:56)", "body": "Hi. Is there anyone interested in the Canadian federal election?"}, {"response": 437, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 29, 1997 (13:50)", "body": "I hadn't been giving it much thought. Fill us in ok?"}, {"response": 438, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Jun  2, 1997 (08:33)", "body": "There's a Canadienne in my wbs chat group who want the current guy booted out in favor of the contender who she says \"won't let the Frenchies walk all over us\"--I'll ask for more details, eh?"}, {"response": 439, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jun  2, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "How about those Bulls las night?"}, {"response": 440, "author": "ginger", "date": "Sun, Jun  8, 1997 (10:00)", "body": "They're having a quiet war about that, Aubrey?"}, {"response": 441, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Jun 18, 1997 (07:58)", "body": "sadly ginger that's all I know--and terry see my query in porch intros; I am confused (so what's new!) by these new choices we have! \"preserve as unread\"??? why???"}, {"response": 442, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun 18, 1997 (11:42)", "body": "Why? Because Dave Thaler just upgraded our interface. We'll be putting out some upgrade notes soon. Aubrey, so good you're back!"}, {"response": 443, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 20, 1997 (08:06)", "body": "Thank you terry! glad to be here! so sad that boss-man keeps me away with WORK! So what is with thie COOKIE business????? why do yuo keep asking me to send them? I make a really great oatmeal chocolate chip (to die for!)--wouild a dozen satisfy you? Seriously terry this is getting ridiculous! I can hardly get on the spring for having to machete through a thicket of computer messages about COOKIES--help meeeeee!"}, {"response": 444, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun 20, 1997 (17:33)", "body": "Your broswer lets you turn off cookie notification. What browser are you using aub' ?"}, {"response": 445, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Jun 23, 1997 (08:10)", "body": "I am using netscape...everyone is telling me cookies are the worst thing in the world but you seem relatively calm about this...so I will take heart and attempt to figure out how to turn them off. if I can't can you help!"}, {"response": 446, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jun 23, 1997 (08:30)", "body": "Sure, be glad to help. What version of Netscape do you have?"}, {"response": 447, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "yu got me there pal, I just click it on hee hee hee...let me have a look-see..."}, {"response": 448, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (12:54)", "body": "the icon says 3.01 but what actually comes up is 3.0...I deselected cookie under the preferences \"show me a warning before accepting a...\" and I sure hope that's ok--I don't know why someone would select that--terry? do I need to know when the computer has accepted a cookie?"}, {"response": 449, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "Not really. It's mildly interesting. Not something to work up a frenzy over."}, {"response": 450, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (13:00)", "body": "hey!! now you actually being here IS soething to work up into a frenzy over!"}, {"response": 451, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (13:01)", "body": "And I am frothing! I have never had anyone here when I am here! so I want to hear more about the electronic minds *peering about* are they here right now?"}, {"response": 452, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (13:45)", "body": "They are, join minds."}, {"response": 454, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (11:12)", "body": "Sure pop it in the wave."}, {"response": 455, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (18:06)", "body": "and what, praytell, are we rambling about?!?"}, {"response": 456, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (18:14)", "body": "jesus! I had to go through 2 friggin years worth o crap to get here! And what do I find but the same damn words I posted somewhere else. This is un nerving!"}, {"response": 457, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (18:18)", "body": "lol!"}, {"response": 459, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 16, 1998 (10:04)", "body": "Ramble is a mega linked topic. So if you ramble here, you ramble everywhere. Just so you know."}, {"response": 460, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 16, 1998 (12:16)", "body": "That's an intimidating thought. I'm afraid to ramble now."}, {"response": 462, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 16, 1998 (13:44)", "body": "Sorry, I seldom think I have anything worthwhile to say, much less to have it echoed throughout the spring."}, {"response": 464, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Jan 17, 1998 (15:52)", "body": "Ahh, but I'm not a deep thinker like you. An eloquent stream of consciousness always rates higher than inane chit-chat."}, {"response": 466, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Jan 18, 1998 (21:39)", "body": "Well, consider yourself eloquent."}, {"response": 467, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Jan 19, 1998 (17:11)", "body": "\"I was born a ramblin' Maaaaannnnnnnnnn. Trying to make a livin' an doin' the best I caaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnn.\""}, {"response": 468, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Jan 19, 1998 (17:59)", "body": "roflmao! (that's a pretty excellent dickie betts, especially from someone subject to recurring cat dreams...)"}, {"response": 469, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (18:21)", "body": "*grin* gotta be too much herb tea!"}, {"response": 470, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (18:41)", "body": "Hey, ramblin' girl, speaking of tea, just got a shipment of chai in today. A free sample from the Pacific Chai company. Who says I never got anything free off the net?"}, {"response": 471, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (18:45)", "body": "where? Good stuff? I'm a big Celestial Seasonings fan..."}, {"response": 472, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (18:46)", "body": "JUST POSTED THIS IN MOVIES.... NOW I HAVE TO READ IT AGAIN IN FITNESS!!!!!! AAAccccccccccccccccccck! Paul, what are you doing to me?!?!"}, {"response": 473, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (18:49)", "body": "It's a conspiracy Stace, remember when I told you a few days ago that when you post here you post everywhere (thought I was kidding, eh?). Anyway, I got the free Chai tea from Pacific Chai which I found by searching for the word \"chai tea\" on yahoo's site. http://www.PacificChai.com Good stuff! Spicy, weet, rich, and *instant* chai tea."}, {"response": 474, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (19:56)", "body": "Stacey, what are your favorite CS teas? I love the mandarin orange spice, and I use their green blend for iced tea."}, {"response": 475, "author": "nike", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (11:58)", "body": "Well as the thread in this group goes more into tea, all I can add to that is the fact that I have never drunken so much tea in my life like I do now living in Londo for half a year, you really drink it at nearly anytime in the day it's incredible... Just to continue rambling (I hope nobody minds) I am just not willing to spend hours over what I should be doing, preparing for my finals here in the South Bank University in London. It has been quite a semester here, and I must say to anybody who has the chanceto join such an exchangeprogramme, do it (like the Nike ad tell's you to) It's an expirience I don't want to have missed, and I already have spend a moth in an american Junior high school, a couple of years back (yeah yeah, those were the days) this thred was called Ramble? wasn't it ? ;-) I just could go on for hours, telling you about the freezing weather we had here after we had the warmest day in January two weeks ago, since the recordings began some hundred years ago, the weather is really unpredictable... Somehow I could do with some real proper sunshine, staying here I have acquired one of the most ugly teints I have ever had, the last time I had such a pale skin was after learning for my last exams in Germany for nearly a whole month and not seeing the outside much... Well I guess all you can do about that is either eat a wagonload of carrots (betacarotin) or lie under a artificial sun for some time, which I actually don't have, or I should better say shouldn't have ;-) Rambling on I could now go into the fact that I spent nearly 2 hours downloading the newest Mac OS -8 upgrade to 8.1 Apart from that I found a cool webpage explaining about Java and even offering a whole online store for free (all the scripts and everything that is needed to make such an to run an online store) so if everything else fails (my studies here as a building engeneer) I will open an online store selling ... well I don't know... ah! I got it I'll sell semelly socks ;-) Well what I would really like to do at the moment is continue writing my webpage, but I can't continue, because I couldn't setup my harddisk here, because my friend wanted back his casing for his harddisk ... well just in case you would like to have a little look around, or find out a bit about the thesis that I want to write about, check out my page at http://www.hardlink.com/~nike I would like some feedback... Well I guess I have rambled enough ;-) I should get back to my studies (yuck) See ya around enjoy the tea (I usually just have the normal PG Tips Black tea here) Bye Nike"}, {"response": 476, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (18:59)", "body": "Just in, the inside scoop on Clinton's woes from the Drudge report in politics."}, {"response": 477, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (20:23)", "body": "Read it in the politics conference. Either it's over for Clinton or Starr. One of them will bite the dust soon."}, {"response": 478, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (20:28)", "body": "Nike, now thar's a ramblin' man! Gosh, it's great you're back with us. Buddy, ya know, got a gig with Microsoft up in big D. Funny, Buddy always despised Microsoft now he's getting those BillyBucks. I wish him well. It's a great break for him and he can help a lot of other visually handicapped folks break some barriers."}, {"response": 479, "author": "nike", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (10:21)", "body": "Yeah! don't get me rambin, when I actually have some work to do ;-) (at least not, when the work I do have to do is somethin I hate doin, like revising all the stuff I learned the last half of the yaer... Is Buddy still around here in the Spring? Well I guess it's often like that, when money is involved... I also would work for Microsoft, but in my heart I still would prefer to work with a Mac,. Anyway, a really great break for him, I must say. Why is it in big D? I thought they were up in big R? Well I hope to read lot's astuff in the various topics, only at the moment I don't have that much time, but I will broowse a bit. See ya around See ya around Nike"}, {"response": 480, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (10:43)", "body": "Hey, anyone want a free frisbee? http://cgi.pathfinder.com/cgi-bin/gdml2x/game/pathfinder/apc_survey2 will get you one if you answer their plastics survey."}, {"response": 481, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (10:44)", "body": "Big, or Dallas, is a tech support location. That's what he's doing, supporting handicapped users. And getting all the free food he can eat!"}, {"response": 482, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (12:15)", "body": "Don't forget to clue him in on the frisbee!"}, {"response": 483, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (16:45)", "body": "Autumn... teas (the faves) Tension Tamer Echinecea Ginseng Bengal \u001b[A\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[B\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D SpiceSleepyTime Emporer's Choice"}, {"response": 484, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (16:54)", "body": "I haven't heard of a couple of those...maybe they're marketed differently in other regions? Like out here we have Edy's ice cream, but on the West Coast it is Dreyer's. And in Europe, Arizona iced tea is called Colorado iced tea (sounds more exotic \"Old West\" or something, I guess!)"}, {"response": 485, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (17:05)", "body": "My super favorite in the Bengal Spice... clovey cinnamony yummy! Shame you don't have them. What are your favorites?"}, {"response": 486, "author": "russell", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (16:53)", "body": "New this month in Culture Wars magazine online: http://www.culturewars.com The Kingpins of Drug Legalization: Investigating Their Role in the Culture War by Michael J. Ard Who are the voices crying out for the de-criminalization of narcotics, and what are their real objectives? The answers may surprise you."}, {"response": 487, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:03)", "body": "My favorite is the mandarin orange spice, but if the Bengal is as good as it sounds, I'll have to look for it. Only I hope it is not too cinnamon-y, because I can't stand their apple cinnamon spice flavor. Or anything with mint."}, {"response": 488, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:18)", "body": "Thanks Russell, that culturewares site was mentioned in our web conference as a cool website not too long ago. On a less frenetic front, and back to teatalk, I picked up some more chai tea tonight and and hibiscus blend. My two current favorites."}, {"response": 489, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:23)", "body": "Ooh, hibiscus is yummy!"}, {"response": 490, "author": "doug", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:33)", "body": "Hey I just saw that culturewars site, gonna read it now. Oh, Terry, I didnt know you were a Tea Coinsure' You continue to surprise me!"}, {"response": 491, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:36)", "body": "Oh, he's a regular renaissance man....."}, {"response": 492, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:40)", "body": "Gosh, hey honest, I haven't been making under the table payments to Autumn. That hibiscus is great brewed with fresh grated ginger and sweetened with white grape juice."}, {"response": 493, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:42)", "body": "Wow--it would never occur to me to doctor tea with anything but honey or fructose. Old family recipe?"}, {"response": 494, "author": "doug", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:48)", "body": "I only came into this conference because I saw that was where the current action was. But dagnabbit if I wasn't exposed and affected by the culture oozing from the electrons of Terry's universe. We are headed to Mexico City tomarrow to go an a ancient indian adventure, talk about culture! I will be exposed to a great deal of over the next week or so. We are going to one of the valcanoes and as many pyramids as we can find, hopfully this will become celestinial. Speaking of culture, I hear there is a very cool (Spring Like) site called http://www.boat.org check it out!"}, {"response": 495, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:54)", "body": "Sounds like an incredible outing, Doug!"}, {"response": 496, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Jan 28, 1998 (18:31)", "body": "Hot pepper cheese craving... anyone want to join me?"}, {"response": 498, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 29, 1998 (09:07)", "body": "you can try... but i won't fit. maybe you sould put the cheese and the Ritz on me!"}, {"response": 501, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (03:06)", "body": "is that a sigh of relief or of dispair? (or were you just breathing heavy and got confused?)"}, {"response": 502, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (03:06)", "body": "drinking my tea, having finished my bagel. Fairly happy today Well, certainly not sad And I read a post from many moons ago that mentioned boyce I associate the name, obviously with the spring, but also with the summer months in Austin. And, all of a sudden, I became really homesick for Austin. My old apartment off of Riverside, runs around Town Lake, late night skates around town stopping in assorted coffee houses to play cards... The smell of the air with humidity. The hot sticky feel after exercising in humidity and sunshine. Riding through the Greenbelt, reading off Mt. Bonnell... To no one in particular... Do you ever feel happy and sad at the same time? Odd how this came up so suddenly."}, {"response": 503, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (03:06)", "body": "I guess that's me. Yeah, I feel happy and sad simultaneously. Well I got a contract on a house in Austin today. I now have 10 days to change my mind."}, {"response": 504, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (03:06)", "body": "(all the time)"}, {"response": 505, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (15:22)", "body": "Wow, a house--that's a big commitment, Terry. Sometimes I think ours is a full-time job. Stacey, that happy/sad feeling; sometimes. More commonly I feel a persistent undercurrent of restlessness laying in wait beneath the surface."}, {"response": 507, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (17:28)", "body": "congrats on the house Paul! and as far as the brief trip into emotional uncertainty... there's nothing like a class full of rowdy boys to bring you back to the here and now! *smile* and nothing like a beer (or four) to make the day a mere memory!"}, {"response": 508, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (17:39)", "body": "whew! (spamified) found ramble in another conference... that I'd never checked before two plus years of... rambling. (worn out)"}, {"response": 509, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (19:53)", "body": "ramble rambles all over about 7 or 8 conferences. Ramble really rambles."}, {"response": 511, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Feb  4, 1998 (15:19)", "body": "afternoon..."}, {"response": 513, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb  5, 1998 (17:16)", "body": "fine. busy. frustrated with certain things but nothing catastrophic... you know how it is when you begin to vent... a trickle, a stream, a flood..."}, {"response": 515, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (12:55)", "body": "sure you wanna talk??? *wink*"}, {"response": 517, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (17:26)", "body": "what should I sit on?!?! *grin*"}, {"response": 519, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sun, Feb  8, 1998 (21:29)", "body": "okay. In an effort to expand our cultural horizons, let's each choose a different language to speak to each other in. (Kind of the way men and women relate anyway) You may speak whatever you like I choose body language!"}, {"response": 522, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Jul 24, 2000 (20:13)", "body": "Coming next month, the second anniversery of the startup of colinfirth.com and firth.com. I got my renewal notice today."}, {"response": 523, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Mar 23, 2001 (07:59)", "body": "I'm gonna see if I can find some good Texas bbq tonight. Just got back from a day trip to Dallas yesterday and getting caught up here. We'll have to do a pledge drive for the Spring, these bandwidth charges are eatin' me up. austentest conference Main Menu"}]}]}