{"conf": "community", "generated_at": "2026-04-26T08:00:02.954878Z", "threads": [{"num": 1, "subject": "community conference introductions", "response_count": 72, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Kennebec", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (21:06)", "body": "First time here. Like this type of BB or conferencing better than irc or chat. I like being able to gather my thoughts before responding to something. I was drawn into this area to snuff out info about creating a home page. I have lived in midcoast Maine on and off all my life. I graduated from college with a BA in English, Journalism, Speech Pathology and something else, ah, I think it was anthropology. I am married. We have three children.(One son who is computer literate). We own our own successful business that has nothing to do with computers. We live in a 150 year old sea captains house. We are all heavily involved in local sports(baseball/softball, soccer & basketball, both girls and boys) and recreation. I enjoy writing, photography, video, sports and surfing the Net."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 28, 1996 (22:09)", "body": "If you need a home page, we'll be happy to help you build one. You can do it here on the Spring if you like. We'll give you an area."}, {"response": 3, "author": "mikel", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (18:11)", "body": "Hi all! I'm Michael Boyle, and I hail from Montreal where I work for an academic journal and am a full-time grad student in Public Policy. My research thus far has concerned the fractures in the political theories upon which North American society are based in the face of such things as the internet. I'll be doing a PhD soon, studying any one of three projects I've written up. I can't decide yet, though! I also am a host over at another conferencing system, Cafe Utne . I host the Mac, Internet, Canada and InfoAge conferences, the last being where we discuss issues that surround the development and growth of the internet upon society - things like virtual community. I'm really happy to be here and to join in the discussion in whatever small way I can. Thanks for letting me know you're here, terry - although I was aware of Spring, your prompt finally got me over here."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:22)", "body": "And we're lucky you're joining us, Cafe Utne is one of the real players on the net."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Masterpiece", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (17:21)", "body": "Happy Holidays, this happens to be my first time here."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Masterpiece", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (17:21)", "body": ""}, {"response": 7, "author": "Masterpiece", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (17:22)", "body": "How is everybody tonight?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (22:12)", "body": "I'm fine. Welcome Robert."}, {"response": 9, "author": "CHEEZER", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:11)", "body": "HELLO"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:42)", "body": "Hello cheezy, are you a cheesehead?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "ginnygal", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (19:02)", "body": "Greetings, I am visiting from Electric Minds....my home away from home...and am delighted to find this place! It's like going away on a vacation...and finding a 'site' where you feel comfortable and cozy...Thanks for \"dropping the breadcrumbs\". Ya'll come see us now!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "nancyw", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (19:05)", "body": "Well met, Ginny. Leave us some poems here. I like the idea of having a virtual vacation home. Nice idea. Here's some virtual chocolate cake for the afternoon snack (or evening in your case if my feable pea brain recalls.)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (19:10)", "body": "Kinda like visiting another country Ginny? I see you got that password working!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "hummie", "date": "Mon, Jun 23, 1997 (16:10)", "body": "i'm here and happy to notice the changes that have been going on here. my home in cspace is Construct, where i have parked some essays and play in the conferences. but this is a nice place & i like it."}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jun 23, 1997 (18:41)", "body": "You are nice person to have around our place."}, {"response": 16, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Wed, Jul  2, 1997 (17:38)", "body": "Well, Hi guys&gals. invited me over - not sure where he found me but I'm glad he did. If you visit my web site ( http://www.griggs.demon.co.uk/) , you can read about my interests and efforts in the area of Virtual Community/Conferencing etc. I'm a former (very short-term) member of The WELL, and more recently of eMinds. However, I like to have my fingers in lots of pies, and I'm trying to draw on the widest area possible. I may open a new topic (if I can - still working out the excellent software here - who needs JavaScript?!) about the practical elements of building community. If you're interested, then pop in!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Wed, Jul  2, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "hmm..sorry about the two errors above. \"terry\" should be in the first sentence, and the URL should be: http://www.griggs.demon.co.uk/ *grin* *blush*"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul  3, 1997 (07:06)", "body": "That's ok, we're glad you're here. I'll look forward to reading your observations."}, {"response": 19, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (14:57)", "body": "The topic is now open in this conference. It's called \"Building Virtual Community - practical ideas\""}, {"response": 20, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Nov  3, 1997 (08:36)", "body": "Good morning, all! WER"}, {"response": 21, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, Nov  3, 1997 (08:47)", "body": "Welcome, KitchenManager :) You seem to have arrived in both the vc and community conferences. What is your interest in community, virtual or otherwise?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Nov  3, 1997 (22:59)", "body": "Not sure, really. I'll have to think on that one. WER"}, {"response": 23, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (15:29)", "body": "Think aloud, though - silence is not useful in computer-mediated comms (CMC) :))"}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "Good observation, lurk not."}, {"response": 25, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (18:46)", "body": "But, whatever happened to practicing empathy, terry? Probably the biggest reason/need is my severly underdeveloped socialization skills. I am not usually a people person. So it is very hard not to lurk, even in reality. WER"}, {"response": 26, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (06:54)", "body": "Cyberspace is the medium in which one can most visibly re-invent oneself, without attracting the scorn of those peers who think they \"know you\" - or to put it more cynically, have put you into their own boxes, their own categories, and are thus not threatened by you any more. We don't suffer from this in virtual community, since the standard fears are removed. As Howard Rheingold said, \"We can't kiss each other, and we can't punch each other in the nose, but within those boundaries a lot can happen.\""}, {"response": 27, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (10:07)", "body": "I agree that we tend to let it loose more."}, {"response": 28, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (16:22)", "body": "terry, with the vc conference now up and running, could you slightly alter the information about the Community conference (as shown on the Conference Index page). The vc conference is the primary place for Virtual Community stuff!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (23:41)", "body": "Will do, what should it say?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Tue, Feb 17, 1998 (18:36)", "body": "erm....just leave out the word \"virtual\" in the phrase \"communities - virtual and realworld\" :)"}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb 17, 1998 (23:39)", "body": "I'll fix that. By the way, we'll be carrying live and recorded video from CFP98 for the next 3 days."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Sun, Feb 22, 1998 (20:32)", "body": "Figured I'd come over here for a sec and check things out. So Hi!!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Mon, Feb 23, 1998 (19:19)", "body": "expanding the horizons. see how many other people i can tick off *wink*"}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Feb 23, 1998 (23:05)", "body": "I can't believe we had an honest to goodness, good old fashioned, highly cathartic \"thrash\". We're all usually so mild mannered."}, {"response": 37, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Mar 17, 1998 (09:25)", "body": "after all that hullabaloo, did he just disappear from the spring? Strange... after all, what's a community without a little dissention?"}, {"response": 38, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Sun, May  3, 1998 (20:42)", "body": "think he did, but nick has been pretty scarce too...."}, {"response": 39, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, May  5, 1998 (09:18)", "body": "I see him pop up in poetry every now and again. From absolutely no information whatsoever beyond his public posts, I'd say he's hashing a few things out right now."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Wolf", "date": "Tue, May  5, 1998 (20:34)", "body": "think so too."}, {"response": 41, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (12:42)", "body": "One thing I am curious about: How many countries are represented in this community?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Apr 19, 1999 (14:50)", "body": "I would like to invite regulars of this conference to visit the International Conflicts conference here on the Spring: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/InternationalConflicts/all This conference is dedicated to the disputes between groups all over the world, be that social, cultural, political or ethnical differences."}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Apr 23, 1999 (20:37)", "body": "Super, Alexander!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, Apr 24, 1999 (07:32)", "body": "Who, me?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Jul 12, 1999 (00:45)", "body": "I just registered here, at Terry's invitation. I'm a cognitive scientist, studying educational technology and learning theory. I also do work in community building."}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul 12, 1999 (00:54)", "body": "I've read a few of your postings at the WELL, and enjoyed them and am somewhat surprised at the rancorous response. Could you tell us a bit about how you got started online, your educational background and what you're up to these days, Barry? Glad you took me up on the invite!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Jul 12, 1999 (02:24)", "body": "as are we all!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Jul 12, 1999 (09:56)", "body": "I was a Distinguished Member of Technical Staff at AT&T Bell Laboratories when UseNet became available around 1980. I've been online since before TCP/IP supplanted UseNet's original UUCP protocols. I've used computers since 1963, when I began with the IBM 7090, IBM 1620, and IBM 360 at the University of Nebraska (BSEE '68 with High Distinction). Bell Labs sent me to Stanford University in 1968 to obtain a Masters, and again in 1970 to obtain a Ph.D. I studied Operations Research and Systems Theory, and put that to work in the Network Planning Division of AT&T Bell Labs. In 1984 I became interested in the relationship of emotions to learning, and began a one-man research program to develop a theory connecting emotions to learning. As part of that work, I began volunteering in the Children's Discovery Center at the Boston Museum of Science in 1988, and in 1990, I launched the MicroMuse/MuseNet Project on the Internet. In 1996, MicroMuse/MuseNet won the coveted NII Award for pioneering innovations in children's educational networking. Since then, I have tried, with limited success, to adapt my earlier work to community building and adult learning. The Orenda Project has been a great success, but only a small fraction of an adult community seem genuinely interested in it. I am frankly vexed by the hostility and antagonism of some of those who express disinterest. I would have expected them simply to ignore it, but that has not been the case. A few have actively opposed it and attempted to undermine it."}, {"response": 49, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul 12, 1999 (11:08)", "body": "Perhaps there's a topic somewhere in which we can discuss how to encorporate some of your concepts and ideas in this community, struggling to acheive growth in more sectors and attract more high level participants such as yourself. Feel free to start topics where we could explore some of your ideas and experiences."}, {"response": 50, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Jul 13, 1999 (02:06)", "body": "I am definately intrigued by your Orenda Project now, as well..."}, {"response": 51, "author": "moulton", "date": "Wed, Jul 14, 1999 (09:36)", "body": "The Orenda Project was running successfully for several months on a Motet site at UMass Lowell. Unfortunately, the Community Lab where it was sited was way over-extended, and the lone professor who managed it found he needed to scale back. So that site has gone dormant for the summer, and the Orenda Community has been looking for ways to regroup."}, {"response": 52, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 15, 1999 (17:53)", "body": "Do you think they could inhabit a conference here?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Jul 15, 1999 (19:44)", "body": "Easily. We had a lively conference on the Motet server at UML with about a dozen active topics."}, {"response": 54, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 15, 1999 (22:17)", "body": "You're sure welcome to make it happen, Barry, we can be an incubator or a homestead, depending on your needs. Or even a rest stop!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Jul 15, 1999 (22:29)", "body": "We have a group who have been in withdrawal since the UML Motet site went dark for the summer. It would be good to try to revive them here and see where it leads. At our peak, we were generating a few dozen posts a day, which I am sure would be well within the capacity of this site. The Flowering City site was a Social Contract site, meaning that the participants there had committed to the civil dialogue model. One would be hard pressed to find better citizens."}, {"response": 56, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (03:06)", "body": "our arms are open!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (09:21)", "body": "and our conferences..."}, {"response": 58, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (13:44)", "body": "Hi all -- I'm a co-founder of the Orenda Conference with Barry and have worked with him on MicroMuse since 1994, where I'm known as Moonbeam. In my non-virtual life I'm a journalism professor at Utah State University. It's good to find this community!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (19:44)", "body": "It's good you're here."}, {"response": 60, "author": "ov", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (18:30)", "body": "Fairly recently here as well. So far I've been over in the vc conference. Looking for a place that isn't governed by the herd mentality. One of the things that I discovered from the cafe was that the herd mentality is not a function of intelligence. This was an eye opening and sobering experience for myself because I've always thought of myself as fairly intelligent and that the problems in the world were mainly a result of too many stupid people. Excuse me for sounding elitist here, and I still love them all, well except for a few exceptions and those bother my conscience. The herd can't talk about the significant. At first I thought that this was because they were not provided with information that was significant or educated in how to process this information. This isn't a valid excuse in the cafe so it must be something else. My current hypothesis is that if something is acknowledged to be significant there is a moral obligation to rework your belief system to accommodate that which is significant. If the people in the cafe were to do this however it would not be possible for them to continue with their presnt lifestyles and career paths and on a subconscious level they know this. My general feeling is that the mass media is primarily interested in dumbing down the general population because if it knew what was going on they would no longer tolerate the way things are and would rise up in open rebellion. Part of the problem is that the size of our society has created a complexity and a dependence on technology that requires a minimum level of intelligence and creativity. The control freaks haven't come up with a totally satisfactory means of ensuring that the intelligent and creative are only used in the interests of those in control. Anybody know where I can go. Yeah, yeah I know, and that was a cheap shot by the way, but I've been there and I've come back and it's not as hot as they say. :-)"}, {"response": 61, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (20:11)", "body": "The people left in the Cafe are, for the most part, the ones who haven't yet discovered what they came there to learn. A few of us, perhaps rather foolishly, stayed on to shine a light on the path to the exit from that culture. And so, we haven't learned the lesson of what it means to do something quite so foolhardy as to wake the sleeping."}, {"response": 62, "author": "ov", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (21:12)", "body": "I really liked the idea of what they claimed to be, and educated and intelligent group of visionaries that liked polite and intelligent discussion of ideas. Maybe the problem was that they had associated themselves with the Reader and I thought that these would be people that identified with these type of ideas. Maybe I would have liked it better if they had billed themselves as a group of friends that liked to talk, and if you don't want to be our friend then *uck off. But they didn't, they presented themselves as a place to discuss the big ideas. Ok, so the where did the ones go that found out what they came there to learn. What was it exactly that we are supposed to learn? That VC's are like every other consumerist product and only meant to amuse and divert us so that we can tolerate living in this society?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (21:22)", "body": "Ov it's OK. We too are refugees from Ug..knee (Grin) I was harrassed and attacked for insisting that the rules of logic be used in the Philosophy conferences I attended. You think they were hard on you? The gender statements about women in Philosophy.....wellll...... Thank \"the powers that be\" Barry and Moonbeam found me and invited me into Orenda."}, {"response": 64, "author": "ov", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (21:56)", "body": "The thing is that they haven't been hard on me at all. But I know how they have reacted to others and over the next few months I am going to demonstrate the fiat by clique that operates over there. I either want them to explicitly acknowledge it or attempt to move beyond it. Like I said, they haven't been hard on me at all, yet."}, {"response": 65, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (23:10)", "body": "Good luck, Ov. Explicit acknowledgments of the obvious are not something that pops out easily from the Cafe Utne culture, under its current management and direction."}, {"response": 66, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (23:11)", "body": "hmmm..."}, {"response": 67, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (07:41)", "body": "Mostly those who graduate from sites like Utne go on to some other, more evolved medium. Perhaps professional journalism, perhaps to write books or articles, perhaps to underground communities, perhaps to write poetry, perhaps into the Ashram. There is a small community at realdiscussions.com. I dunno where the heavyweight thinkers are anymore. Not on Utne. Not on the Well. Not on Webb.Net. Perhaps we are the ones we are waiting for."}, {"response": 68, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (14:35)", "body": "Always nice to be your own source of knowledge and inspiration... I personally can't comment on my own abiity to enlighten myself though..."}, {"response": 69, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (14:59)", "body": "Research is what I do when I don't know what I'm doing. I do a lot of research. :)"}, {"response": 70, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (16:34)", "body": "*laugh*"}, {"response": 71, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Tue, Jul 27, 1999 (20:58)", "body": "I didn't graduate from Utne, thank goddess. I dropped out. (Or was I drop-kicked?)"}, {"response": 72, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (00:15)", "body": "heh"}, {"response": 73, "author": "davidbarry", "date": "Thu, Sep 19, 2002 (16:54)", "body": "I cam across this site by accident..I am based in London, England...can anyone tell me what the spring is about, how it came to be etc.? David Barry barr361@aol.com"}, {"response": 74, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 19, 2002 (20:48)", "body": "The Spring came about around ten years ago to fulfill a need for a conferencing system that would run on a UNIX shell and on the web. It was one of the very first Internet discussion sites. It has become home to many special interest groups through the years and is open to all forms of new conversation and discussion. Though Austin, Texas based it has a wide International following and is populated mostly by women who inhabit the 'drool' conference and who check in our our sister sites, austen.com and firth.com. What are your interests and what would you like to see in a site like this? community conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 2, "subject": "Electric Minds", "response_count": 12, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (19:48)", "body": "I think our little band of P&P fanatics qualifies as a community."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 24, 1996 (22:27)", "body": "It really feels like a community to me."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (06:59)", "body": "Terry I was going to call you today to talk about some things, but here is a good opportunity to report something we were talking about in the Drawing Room last night. Joan has had a lot of experience as a participant in discussion lists and is very fearful that the inability to respond to individual messages may stifle the spontaneous flow of conversation we had with the branching board. I should not put it all on Joan. Lots of us miss the ability to see the structure of the responses, to change subjects in midstream and enjoy some of the other features of the wild and wooly outline style. I am so grateful to you for being so accomodating and giving us what seems to be such reliable server space that I tend to be determined to make this system work. Indeed if it has worked so well in other venues, I must believe that a) we can accomodate to the format, or b) that the format can be adapted to us. Plus, I don't want to acknowledge that format can play a life or death role in the whole feel of a community. So many other variables are in play: our common interests, affection for each other, need to convene. What has been your experience with each format and what is your opinion about the intuitiveness and naturalness of each? Amy"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (08:29)", "body": "These are some good questions, but not directly releated to the Electric Minds discussion. I'll answer this in the yapp conference, or, better yet, I'll start a topic here about your group and we talk talk about community building issues there."}, {"response": 5, "author": "nancyw", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (18:48)", "body": "Well I hopped over here from Eminds at Terry's invite and it is fun to try a new system. Which topics are blossoming? Has anybody done any comparison with Eminds or other systems? Are there common features which help promote the conversations? Do you have a spellchucker here?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (18:53)", "body": "We do if you use the shell, and you do have a shell account. We just opened a chocolate topic in food by the way, where you just posted two responses. Do you use telnet Nancy?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "nancyw", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (18:57)", "body": "No, in fact I was discussing telnet with our webmaster today -- confessing I really didn't understand it other than know it is DOS related. Wanna explain? And Terry, I feel like big brother is watching me... reporting my every step. Kinda scary, guy."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (19:04)", "body": "I'm watching the system pretty intensely today because Dave Thalers in here installing the new software. Sorry didn't mean to come on like big brother. We're testing pretty heavy and making sure the new software works the way it's supposed to work. And you can get a great telnet program from http://www.stroud.com in the terminal apps section. And we have a discussion on telnet in the apps conference."}, {"response": 9, "author": "nancyw", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (19:11)", "body": "I'll check it out. I am most happy when learning new things. Hope the install flys like the wind. New installs and upgrades always make me jumpy at work."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (19:12)", "body": "Yapp is the conference where we suggest changes and report bugs. Dave Thaler gets an email copy of everything that's posted there."}, {"response": 11, "author": "nancyw", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (19:17)", "body": "Who makes Yapp? Oops, guess I should go ask that in Yapp. I'll go cruise a few more topics."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 12, 1997 (08:18)", "body": "Here's a great quote from George Mokray on Electric Minds which gives some insight as to what they're going through right now: Topic 6: History of the Electric Minds Community \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd #342 of 342: gmoke (gmoke) Wed 11 Jun '97 (02:17 PM) Here's an article I published in my weekly listserv/webpage this week.\ufffd It will be up at http://world.std.com/~gmoke/AList.html until Sunday and then archived at http://world.std.com/~gmoke/AList.June697.html for the next few months.\ufffd I hope what it shows is that there are many other examples of online/offline/cyberandmeatspace attempts at community.\ufffd And all of them need help.\ufffd \"The only war is the war against imagination.\"\ufffd Diane Di Prima from \"Rant\" I've also posted this in the gift economies topic in the Wealth of Networks conference.\ufffd It has been more than interesting watching this dispersed diverse group of people try to support their meeting place. It has been just as interesting watching the volunteers of Virtually Wired try to support their labor of love and access.\ufffd You get back what you put in, sometimes ten-fold, sometimes not at all.\ufffd You put in out of the goodness of your heart and the reflection of your interests.\ufffd That's how you build one kind of community.\ufffd Howard and his business partners have to decide what kind of help and support they can use from the group of people who are committed to using EMinds.\ufffd We of EMinds have to decide what kind of support we can give. Here's what I wrote in my own venue:\ufffd The Begging Bowl I've been participating in Howard Rheingold's Electric Minds ( http://www.minds.com) , a virtual community webconferencing system, since it began around the beginning of the year. One of the conversations I've enjoyed the most is the one in the Wealth of Networks conference on the topic of gift economies. Anna Percy from Waitakere NZ, who I know from the Ecocity Listserv (ECOCITY@SEGATE.SUNET.SE) that UN University in Tokyo publishes, also takes part in the Electric Minds discussion. It is exciting to be working on the same problems - systemic ecological/economic/sociopolitical/personal delusions of restorative possibility - internationally networked, city by city, neighborhood by neighborhood, together. How strange to recognize someone from the other side of the world this way and trade words and ideas so easily. Within the last few weeks, Electric Minds has lost most of its initial investors and stopped paying hosts and for new articles. EMinds is still keeping its conferencing system going. Is half a year a long enough time to build an international Web community? Is it an example of a gift economy since it doesn't charge a fee to join? Will it survive? Here in Boston, Virtually Wired ( http://www.vw.org ) faces a cash-flow crisis and necessary restructuring after two years of affordable public Internet access and training. We take in about $2000 per month from that and on average over $600 per month from contract job-training projects. However, it takes 30-90 days to receive payment some of these contracts and we don't have enough operating capital to make up the balance in the interim. VW also faces the uncertainties of a new landlord. In response to these difficulties, the volunteers are refocusing our services and systems. VW, like EMinds, can use all the help it can get. Will Virtually Wired survive? I've been doing \"A List...\" since November 1994. There are about 250 subscribers to the listserv, grown from the original 150 or so. I have never bothered to find out exactly how many hits my page is getting. I ask this world-wide self-selected interest group for contributions in the Begging Bowl section each week: \"A List...\" is a freeware/shareware publication. If the information is of any value to you, please contribute - money, information, encouragement, prayers and good wishes are all valid currencies for feedback and will be gratefully appreciated...\" First year I received $448 from 12 people. Just paid for my Net service ($440 annually). Second year the budget was $630 from 15 people. This year so far I've received $407 from 13 people.\ufffd Circulation has grown from 150 to 250. About 5% of the people who receive \"A List...\" are contributing monetarily. Maybe another 5% send me information and acknowledged support. Thank you all for reading. Will \"A List...\" survive? Will these ventures ever become \"profitable?\" Or have they been profitable from their first moments as thought experiments? Thanks George for letting us reprint this! community conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 3, "subject": "Jane Austen folks and the austen conference", "response_count": 13, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (08:36)", "body": "Amy said thus: Terry I was going to call you today to talk about some things, but here is a good opportunity to report something we were talking about in the Drawing Room last night. Joan has had a lot of experience as a participant in discussion lists and is very fearful that the inability to respond to individual messages may stifle the spontaneous flow of conversation we had with the branching board. I should not put it all on Joan. Lots of us miss the ability to see the structure of the responses, to change subjects in midstream and enjoy some of the other features of the wild and wooly outline style. I am so grateful to you for being so accomodating and giving us what seems to be such reliable server space that I tend to be determined to make this system work. Indeed if it has worked so well in other venues, I must believe that a) we can accomodate to the format, or b) that the format can be adapted to us. Plus, I don't want to acknowledge that format can play a life or death role in the whole feel of a community. So many other variables are in play: our common interests, affection for each other, need to convene. What has been your experience with each format and what is your opinion about the intuitiveness and naturalness of each? Amy My reply will be in the next response."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (08:42)", "body": "Many other virtual communities like the WELL, ECHO, and Electric Minds (where you originally posted the above comment) have struggled with finding the optimum user interface. Electric Minds is going through this right now. The WELL just went through a major revision. This is an age old and hotly debated argument, threaded responses vs a linear model for responses. It seems like the users in these other communities have adapted pretty well to this format, even if it is not ideal in every way. And these are the only communities on the Internet that I know of that have been relatively successful. I have yet to experience a widely adopted and successful community which uses the branching or discrete threaded way of handling responses. Perhaps yours is the exception. Should it become a sine qua non for your exisitence, we can research other conferencing software and set up your group on another one of our servers. Do you have some specific software in mind? What was the system you were on before using? Have you posed this question to Dave Thaler in the yapp conference? He would be a good one to ask, as he is the author of yapp 3.0 and had reasons for designing it the way he did."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (09:15)", "body": "] Should it become a sine qua non for your exisitence, we can research other conferencing software and set up your group on another one of our servers. Terry, that is the answer to a question I was almost too shy to ask. Re: asking Dave? No, I don't know him well enough yet. But maybe I will repost my comments there. I would like to get some of our little band in on this. I notice a function in the admin area for linking one conference to another. How exactly do I go about doing this? I could just do a link in HTML, but what is the path for the actual or exact URL for a topic file? Thanks for everything. Amy"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (09:15)", "body": "I should add: I want to try to work with Yapp first, before looking at other options."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (09:22)", "body": "You know I'm dumbfounded. I don't know how to link off the top of my head. I believe if you type htlp link at a prompt if you're logged into the shell version of yapp, it will tell you. Have you checked out the help files? Have you read through some of our previous trials and tribulations in the yapp conference?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Nov 25, 1996 (09:53)", "body": "I will figure it out Terry, I nearly always do. ] Have you read through some of our previous trials and tribulations in the yapp conference? Yes. I have not studied it but I believe such things are better than real manuals. Amy"}, {"response": 7, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (04:03)", "body": "Hi Terry - Amy asked me to drop over here and share some thoughts which we had recently discussed over in the Pemberley room. ] Terry said: I have never seen a full blown community coalesce overnight in the manner that the austen conference has here on the Spring. In a matter of three days, an entire village has come into being here on the Spring. Ah, but Terry, it did not \"grow\" here overnight - it migrated here already, full-grown. It did, however, in a remarkably short time, grow into a community cohesive enough that it was not blown apart when faced with failed technology. While I was not one of those who were there \"in the beginning\" (sometime during the summer, I believe) I arrived in August, and against my better judgement, could not resist jumping into the discussion. ] Terry said: ] I have yet to experience a widely adopted and successful community which uses the branching or discrete threaded way of handling responses. Perhaps yours is the exception. Not \"the\" exception, but an example. There are others. I've recently \"celebrated\" my 10th anniversary of participation in various online communities, and know quite well what kind of a commitment one makes when one joins. It will carve out a chunk of your time in the same way that joining an athletic team or a performing group or leading a scout troup or being a hospital volunteer or some other \"real-time\" activity will. The advantage is that you can participate anytime - at your own convenince. The disadvantage is that you can participate anytime - approp iate or not. The danger is actual addiction. Because of the recent threat to the survival of the P&P2 group, some of its members have been in the danger zone during the past few days, and many P&P2-ers have gone into online overdose. It will be good to settle in a new relatively secure location so people can stop behaving as if each day were the last day of their lives. It's a good sign that last night the Pemberley chat room was vacant between Midnight EST and 11PM PST and tonight at 6PM PST there was nobody there.. People are starting to get ba k to \"normal\". (Pardon my philosophizing a bit - I am suffering from a strong case of deja vu. Somewhat on that topic later)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (04:04)", "body": "Part 2 When I arrived on Amy's doorstep in August, the nucleus of a community was already there. All of the condidions were right. A group of voluntary participants with a serious interest in a particular topic, but not so serious that they took themselves too seriously, BB software that made free flow of ideas easy even for the novice, and leadership which, while firmly enforcing a few basic standards such as copyright and obscenity issues did not over-manage, and led by example rather than by laying d wn rigid rules of behavior. These conditions were ideal for the growth of this particular type of community, which, because of its recreational nature, does not have to be concerned with issues such as productivity, deadlines, or staying \"on task.\" (A different style of leadership and software management could be better suited to some other types of community.) One of the P&P2 participants, in talking abut why she preferred P&P2 over another community with a similar focus of content, said that the other group had started out being quite spontaneous and then someone had decided to moderate and then rules were made, and others argued over the rules and still others continually tested the limits and that in the process, much of the fun and liveliness had gone out of it. (Though I have not visited it, this other group would appear to be having a little identity cr sis on its hands - as to whether it is primarily a \"recreational\" group or a \"scholarly\" group, and some whose preference is for a more recreational group seem to find the current management style a bit restrictive.) Over the past 10 years, I've had a chance to observe the factors that encourage and discourage formation of \"living\" electronic communities, and one of the key factors is the software. The more intuitive and automatic the software can be, the greater the freedom of the participants to interact in ways that promote community growth. The more time they have to spend figuring out, remembering how to operate, and/or manually controling the software, the less time there is for interaction, and the less spont neous interaction will be. Part 3- What was the system you were on before using? The software that was used on the P&P2 BB (apart from being somewhat slow to load) is the best implementation for the promotion of a sense of commuity that I've seen. Aside from the advantages of being able to include links and graphics within postings, its method of linking postings to one another is completely fluid. The main page displays not just the subject lines of the main topics, but of each response, and each response to each resopnse, in a cascading format. People are also allowed to modify o completely change the subject line at any point within the cascade. If a particular subject change attracts more traffic than the original thread, Amy was able to move it out and have it become a main topic (as can the participants if they choose to). Furthermore, within each posting there is a direct link backward to the response that generated it and forward to any follow-ups that it may have generated. This makes it possible for a \"silly\" thread to spring from a serious one without \"forcing\" those interested only in the serious side to put up with it. Because all postings are physically linked to one another, it's harder for novices to accidentally post in the \"wrong\" topic, eliniates the need for the poster to tell others where to look for the original post, and reduces the need for quoting of original text. Because the software automaticlly quotes the text of the posting being followed up, it also makes it easy for participants to indicate (with judicious snipping and/or paraphrasing) exactly what they are making reference to. And this particular s ftware was also an html teacher, in that quoted material in the text entry window included the html tags, so people could learn how to produce the various formatting effects. The main page also keeps track of what a participant has or hasn't already seen with color coding, so all that anyone using most web browsers has to do is point and click. No typing in of numbers; no waiting for postings that one is not intersted in seeing to load and then having to scroll past them; no trying to guess how far back one has to go to locate the message that a particular post was responding to. In short, the way that this particular software automatically threads postings and allows for easy point and click navigation frees the participants from having to think much at all about the technology, and permits them to participate more spontaneously, naturally and conversationally. They don't have to wait till the end of a thread to chime in; they don't risk forgetting what they meant to say by the time that they get to the end of a thread. Threaded browsing also permits for comfortable coexista ce between the serious and the silly, and allows participants to get to know and like one another as individuals aside from their single sha"}, {"response": 9, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (04:06)", "body": "Part 4 - DEJA VUE I have a particular reason for feeling strongly about the significance of threaded conversation in community-building. Between August of '86 and July of '90 I was involved in the creation of the first online network for educators. It was an R&D project of McGraw-Hill, but the philosophy of the development team was that it should be built by educators, not by technicians, and they gathered a core group of educators from all over North America, provided tech support and consultation regarding online commu ities, and started building. At that time there was no such thing as a graphic interface and many participants were using Apple IIs and Commodore Pets and Tandy machines for access. The software had to be universally accessible. They chose CoSy, then already in use on MGH's electronic version of Byte Magazine. It featured the option for either chronological or threaded reading of messages, and permitted responses to be directly \"attached\" to any other message, and also permitted one to change the subject line when appropriate. By the time (4 years later) when MGH made a buisness decision to drop the network (along with all other electronic \"products\"), there was a subscriber base of about 3000 educators, with about 200 who participated as members of the greater MIX community, not just members of their own particular subject area's conference(s). Among those who participated actively and daily, and carried on informally in the online teachers' lounge, virtually all were using the threaded option, and had become close online fri nds, many of whom and made particular efforts to meet up in person with their online colleagues whenever possible. As an epitaph for that community, here's something that I sent to Amy earlier this week. (But this is not yet the end of this tale!) The other similar occasion (to the threatened loss of P&P2) that comes to mind is when McGraw-Hill made a \"business decision\" to end a 4-year-old network for teachers which they had been developing - and quite successfully, too. A genuine community had evolved there, and while there was no chat feature enabled, on the last night before the plug was pulled they turned off the connect time meter, and all incoming lines were in use as people engaged in \"pseudochat\" - converging on a single confe ence and repeatedly giving the \"new\" command to see what others were typing about. At that time I was on sabbatical and in grad school, and was working there 1/4 time doing customer support, and in order to make use of all possible lines, the sysop called me on the voice phone and asked me to log off and come in on his private emergency access line - the one that stayed up even when the others all went down. (Mine was the only ID with enough access \"privilege\" to get in that way.) Had a few bad moments hen I had difficulty getting back on thru UNIX but did finally get re-connected. Bob (sysop) was to pull the plug at midnight, and everyone who was there just \"sat\" there online till they were shut off. And in the end, there were just Bob and I all by ourselves on the corpse of the net. Very depressing. Had to log myself off. And we never \"saw\" many many of those good friends again. It had been the hope of all that we would be able to find a new home for our network, and, indeed, by October, one had been found, but MGH considered its subscriber list to be \"proprietary\" information and would not let us have it - even tho they no longer had a competing product to sell - so we had no way of letting folks know where we had re-located or how to reach us again. MGH also would not allow us to use the name, so basically, the organizers of the (former) MIX network started over from scratch o a different host with a different name - and with different software - Caucus. After our own training, all of us were convinced that Caucus was both harder to learn and less conducive to conversation than CoSy had been, but our new sysops assured us that that was just because we were not used to it. Well, to make a long story short, all of us being the same people who we were over on MIX, and a lot more experienced now than we had been then, we were unable to re-create that same sense of community with a new group of subscribers starting from scratch using Caucus. The orgnaizing p ople were the same, the content was the same, the software was the only variable that was different. The task-oriented conferences went very well, but those in which conversation - both recreational, and regarding professional issues (such as restructuring and site based management) sat idle except for contributions by those from the moderator team who attempted to stir up some action. No sense of wider community ever developed, and now in its 6th year, the \"new\" network is on its last legs - and will be mourned by few, since it never really came to life. And after using Caucus for 2 years longer than we used CoSy, we still feel that the non-threaded format has not been as easy for t"}, {"response": 10, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (04:08)", "body": "Part 5 - Have you posed this question to Dave Thaler in the yapp conference? Not in any great detail - the preliminary response from Dave to Amy's initial questions make it appear that he is pretty well committed to the linear thread philosophy, and the majority of our folks prefer the flexibility of the threaded format that was used at Amy's Bluemarble site. He would be a good one to ask, as he is the author of yapp 3.0 and had reasons for designing it the way he did. The main purpose for bringing up requests for additional eatures to Dave would be if he were interested in trying to modify yapp so that it could function in either mode, depending on the needs of the participants. If he pretty much likes it the way it is, there isn't any point in making waves just for the sake of making waves. The file management problems inherent in having each posting a separate file which we have already encountered certainly make it worthwhile to try working with Yapp first, before looking at other options, but I believe that there is the possibility that we may also want to explore other options if any more stable software more similar to what we started with is discovered. The following exchange snatched from the Pemberley chat room illustrates my concern. From: Newbie (New Msg) at 11/26/96 6:01 PM I followed the link from Amy's P&P2 page, where I'd left a message a couple of days ago - following my interest in Pride & Prejudice. From: P&P2-er (New Msg) at 11/26/96 6:04 PM Have you been to the Spring? That is where we are set up for now. From: Newbie (New Msg) at 11/26/96 6:05 PM Yes, but it was a bit confusing trying to follow the topics - I feel I'm missing something somewhere. This is enough for now. Probably more than enough. (but there's more where it came from.)"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Nov 27, 1996 (10:31)", "body": "Thanks for the detail, Joan. I'd never had the whole story from you and it is a good case history. A lot of what you say makes sense. Let's try out all of Yapp's tricks. There are some buried treasures in here, I think that we don't see on the screen right now. Glad you are willing to give it a chance. This virtual community thing is fascinating."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (09:37)", "body": "Terry, One trouble with our group is not that we are cliche-ish. That's not why we have not spread, I don't think. One problem is that we all of us spend too much time online already. We are obsessive types generally, we have found. Idea. Use the link function judiciously to spread the influence of our conversations. I used it to link the Austen conference work assignment topic to appead in the projects conference as well. Example: take the English Patient and Emma threads from Austen and make them appear in TV and movies. Amy"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 30, 1996 (11:38)", "body": "Excellent idea! community conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 4, "subject": "Ramble", "response_count": 512, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (17:59)", "body": "I've been holed up here all day but I don't have cabin fever. I love it at my place. It's night time. Outside it's drizzling. I've been building new boxes to put on the net, reading, studying and writing today. The evening news is on the tube. I feel like making a pot of coffee. I keep getting a box on my screen that says my outbox in Microsoft Mail is damaged. My outbox is empty! I got some interesting email from Elizabeth Gipps, an old friend today. And that's part of my world tonight."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Saman", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (18:02)", "body": "I can't believe I'm actually doing this - I usually steer clear of such threads :). But then this has not been a typical day! I baked muffins for the first time in my life (my mother is slightly obsessive about anyone cooking in her kitchen, but she's w orking at the moment) and they were a success. Hey I'm doing better than the Bennet girls - they couldn't cook. I also just got rudely interrupted from my spring-browsing by a door-to-door salesman wanting to give me a voucher for 20 free meals - only I'd have to pay $30 for it! I blame Neil Finn for it all. Huh? I hear you say. Mr Finn was lead vocalist for Crowded House - my all-time favourite band who announced they were breaking up in June. Their final charity concert on the steps of the Sydney Opera House was televised he re on Sunday, and I'm am currently slowly working my way through a grieving process involving contimuous playing of all my Crowded House CDs - maybe that's why the salesman looked happy to depart. Top that people!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (18:08)", "body": "Tough to top. The only rule in this topic is that are no rules and that you can talk about anything and everything . Total free form."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (18:58)", "body": "During my one excursion outside, I acquired a stud finder and 16 yards of unbleached muslin. Prize for the most creative use of these wares."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (19:20)", "body": "Hope you find that stud. I'm kicked back watching the music awards on Fox. And I'm scanning in some ancient family photos of my Norwegian relatives in Minnesota. I'm building sort of a family album web page for my folks and family at Christmas. It's my life story too. Dishwalla's playing on the tube."}, {"response": 6, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (20:47)", "body": "Moody Blues boxed set CD is playing (the poetry is a bit surreal), and I just finished making up an algebra exam to give to my students tomorrow. I have not had time to browse here since Saturday evening, and I must say that I have missed all of you. I skipped (church) choir rehearsal to relax this evening, so I suppose I feel a bit guilty. Saman, congrats on the muffins. It has been an absolute age since I used my kitchen stoves to do anything other than heat soup or cook frozen dinners! As soon as the semester is over, I will go to San Diego for a week over Christmas -- mom and one brother's family out there. I plan to take the S&S video to share w/ mom."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (21:23)", "body": "Moody Blues. Santana was just on the music awards getting the Century Billboard award. Only George Harrison and three others have ever won this award. Still scanning pictures and working on some website proposals. I've got 4 computers hooked up to a switchbox here and I'm flipping from one to another. Bastrop Internet Services is working on building up the new server, I popped another 20mb of memory in it last night and Scott's putting NT 4.0 on it. I don't know if it's back on line yet. Their website is http://www.bastrop.net Tomorrow, Matt is going to build up a new primary server to replace http://access.spring.com which bit the dust. I got a 2mb hard drive to replace the 1 gigger that went down. The rains have past. It's quiet out in Cedar Creek, like it always is. I wonder what Amy's doing tonight."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (03:41)", "body": "Amy slept for a change -- but awoke at 4 am"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (06:13)", "body": "Good morning Amy, it's 6 am here and you've already been up for two hours, are you ever bright eyed and bushy tailed today! I'm going in to Austin today to take care of lots of business and things that are piling up. I've got to get that contract going with Texaltel (see projects) and get that machine to Matt (to replace the server that crashed) and a bunch of friends are meeting at pub on 6th street tonight. We had some interesting comments in one of the NetMeeting topics yesterday (not the one that's linked to here) and you may want to check them out in the 'apps' conference. Did you know that if you hit the 'enter' key twice that you will get a menu here if you're in a shell? But only about half the menus work so far. I'm writing shell scripts to do a whole bunch of things. Is anyone here good at writing shell scripts?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (11:33)", "body": "Even though I won't be online for the next 8 hours. I left my microphone aimed at my radio. So you may be able to hear me talking to other folks if you connect to me on NetMeeting."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (11:34)", "body": "Here are some of the pictures I scanned: http://www.spring.com/~terry/albumjpg/ And me as a baby: http://www.spring.com/~terry/albumjpg/terry2.JPG"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (19:49)", "body": "I have to start making Christmas cookies and wrapping presents. I would like to get most of this done while my \"the little angels\" are in school. I will be very busy during the morning hours. Every year I say I will not go crazy but every YEAR we do. Oh w ell, \"tis the seasons to be joLly, fa,la,la,la,la,la,la\" * *** ***** ******* ********* *********** *** ***"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (19:58)", "body": "1 \"Merry Christmas\" 232 \"Happy New Year\" 34443 4555544 566666665 67777777776 7888888888887 101"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (19:59)", "body": "I guess half a tree is better then none. HO! HO!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (20:37)", "body": "HO!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (22:28)", "body": "I have to make it down to see the tree of lights in Zilker Park. See my comments in the food conference about my wonderful dinner tonight."}, {"response": 17, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (22:51)", "body": "I'm having a hard time finding any holiday spirit this year. I usually enjoy gift giving and all the events but Novemeber has worn me out. Someone remind me what's it like to have a life outside of work. Donna, could you pls send a little of your xmas spirit my way? I'm in grave need. Mich"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (23:03)", "body": "Sure Mich, no, problem it will be a \"surprise\""}, {"response": 19, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (13:45)", "body": "D'Arcy or Pemberley shape cookies anyone ? Donna, you already got some gifts ? Got to get them before the usual 24-hour-prior-to-Xmas-day. And it is a major plus to have kids, they really put you in the spirit don't they. Almost no choice but to feel it. My trick for the past years, particularly when all I had was a job and friends at the other corner of the earth, was to give time to needy causes (filling baskets of food. Nothing like seeing a two/three year old receiving is only plush teddy. Even if my situation as quite change, I remained faithfull to this commitment and it makes me feel great. Sending you my warmest wishes of joy and happiness, mich."}, {"response": 20, "author": "cat", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (18:40)", "body": "Not a good day today. Two girls in my homeroom were making fun of my friend Tara because she is skinny and short. They called her a Balemic Monkey (I dan't know if thats spellled right). They spread nasty rumors about her for absolutly no reason. They threw her books in the garbage, STOLE a few of her belongings, and on top of all that they threw away her BIBLE!! I am sooooooo pissed off right now. We also lost our game by ONE piont. It was a good game. I am not going to get any sleep tonite becaus John has invited 4 friends to sleep over. They are all loud and abnoxious (forgive spelling)."}, {"response": 21, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (20:18)", "body": "Cat, hope you were able to give Tara some support and comfort. At a time like that one really needs one's friends. Insecure young people can be so hard on one another. (And some of them never do grow out of it and become Caroline Bingleys!)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (23:27)", "body": "They should have a class in grade school/high school to teach people how to to love each other"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (23:38)", "body": "But Donna, I believe that this is what parents are for?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (09:34)", "body": "Cheryl sometimes that is not enough."}, {"response": 25, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (18:01)", "body": "People can just be so nasty to each other it disgusting! Tara was hysterical all day yesterday! I feel so bad as if I've done something awful. I feel so helpless! I want to comfort her but I can't. She is too upset. Things like this have been going on since fifth grade with her! I thought people in their last year of high school would at least be mature enough not to do that sort of thing. I hope she can forgive them. I hope I can forgive them. It is times like this to where the only way I can f rgive is when I look back and remember what Jesus did for me. Even though we laughed at Him, spat on Him, beat Him, and even killed the Messiah, the son of God, He asked His Father to forgive us all. He could have just jumped off that cross and destroye d all mankind with the snap of a finger but He didn't. He did not want to die but He loved us all so much. He wanted us to be with Him in paradise when we leave our earthly bodies. We do not deserve His love, but He gives it willingly. For those who a e offended by this message I am sorry for invading your beliefs."}, {"response": 26, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (18:01)", "body": "People can just be so nasty to each other it disgusting! Tara was hysterical all day yesterday! I feel so bad as if I've done something awful. I feel so helpless! I want to comfort her but I can't. She is too upset. Things like this have been going on since fifth grade with her! I thought people in their last year of high school would at least be mature enough not to do that sort of thing. I hope she can forgive them. I hope I can forgive them. It is times like this to where the only way I can f rgive is when I look back and remember what Jesus did for me. Even though we laughed at Him, spat on Him, beat Him, and even killed the Messiah, the son of God, He asked His Father to forgive us all. He could have just jumped off that cross and destroye d all mankind with the snap of a finger but He didn't. He did not want to die but He loved us all so much. He wanted us to be with Him in paradise when we leave our earthly bodies. We do not deserve His love, but He gives it willingly. For those who a e offended by this message I am sorry for invading your beliefs."}, {"response": 27, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (18:02)", "body": "I thought I hit that button once. Sorry."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (18:56)", "body": "I spent the night waiting in a hospital emergency room....the victim is home and doing well, but meanwhile, I now feel like I am the one who need a doctor's care..... in an unrelated incident, I hit someone's car (black ice...nothing I could do)....my son 's snake is loose in the basement (Indiana Jones and I have similar feelings about vipers;I am contemplating a move to the Hilton)....I have to turn out a shepherd costume for my son by Monday or the PTA gestapo will come after me......On Sunday, I must s epherd a bunch of cub scouts carolling at a nursing home; only threats of bodily harm will get them to behave like angels(Hope the elderly won't notice the 'Batman smells' version of Jingle Bells).....my house looks like a sewer....by way of holiday decor ating,I'm thinking of stringing lights on the pumpkins that have frozen to the front porch......and friends keep wondering why I spit at the TV every time an ad for the Martha Stewart Christmas special comes on. Sorry to ramble, but just wanted to let you know it has been a typical week in the House of Grace. Ho, Ho, Ho! P.S. Amy, if you really want to find that stud, I would advise AGAINST using all 16 yards of the muslin....try working with 2 or 3 yards to make some low-cut little number that will hammer home the right message....be sure to wear that WonderBra (or if y ou don't have one, duct tape works the same kind of Wonders) ;-)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:17)", "body": "] I hit someone's car (black ice...nothing I could do)... ___ Oh Grace. How awful for you. Do treat yourself to the Hilton. Why not? And popcorn and champaign and P&P tomorrow. Can I come over?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:46)", "body": "Oh dear, Grace! Who is the \"victim\" and of what, if the black ice was an unrelated incident? ANd what variety of snake is loose? Fear not - in general, many snakes make very good pets and many others are of an extremely shy and retiring character and u nlikely to do anything to anyone unless provoked. When in junior high I was one of a group of kids who \"volunteered\" at the museum, and among our duties were, every two weeks, if there were no live mice available with which to feed the snakes, to force-f ed them hamburger, which they would not eat on their own, preferring their food alive. So two of us took on each snake, one holding the mouth open and the other poking the hamburger inside - then we had to hold its mouth shut till it swallowed the bite. The experience really stripped the poor snakes of all dignity and ability to inspire fear. Joan, too"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (20:40)", "body": "Joan, the victim of last night's hospital escapade was my husband....he had gone to a Detroit Pistons game and was done in by a hot dog.....a piece lodged in his esophagus.......only with an ambulance, drugs, and a surgeon now behind us,and the victim fee ling much better, can I even dream of talking about the whole thing. (My husband was at the game with friends, one of whom is a thoracic surgeon and the other, a pediatrician. I'm left to wonder where they were during this whole thing!) My husband is a man of few words but because of this incident, those few are down to NONE, and he has to lecture on Monday. My son assures me that the snake missing from his collection is a milk snake...but I think this is a conspiracy to paint images of some benign creature hiding down there rather than a horrible lurking monster. (I am the only person on the block with cans of carnivorous snake food and freeze-dried crickets in her refrigerator - Woe to the guest innocently looking for a midnight snack.) Be assured that we are all now doing well.....and the HIlton says they do offer special rates for extended stays. Grace"}, {"response": 32, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (23:40)", "body": "Re: 59:31 - what a nasty and scary experience. One would have thought that in the company he was in, he'd have been in good hands! My husband is a man of few words but because of this incident, those few are down to NONE, and he has to lecture on Monday.\" Hopefully the swelling will have gone down at least somewhat by then. And if not, tell him to borrow a PowerBook, feed it a SimpleText textfile and let MacInTalk read it for him. [grin] I am the only person on the block with cans of carnivorous snake food and freeze-dried crickets in her refrigerator For a year or two I had siamese fighting fish, and was the only one on my block with live brine shrimp tubifex worms in my refrigerator. Equally disgusting- especially the tubifex worms! Joan, too"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (21:54)", "body": "You beat me to it with the muslin, Grace. I'm glad you and your husband are okay."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Grace", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (07:22)", "body": "About beating you to it with the muslin, Hilary.......I couldn't help myself; Amy gave us an opening that was 'sew' inviting. (By the way,I threw in the duct tape just to please you.) If I had been smart, I would have gotten Amy to whip up my shepherd costume with the extra yardage and send it by overnight mail. The family survived a difficult week....I was just beginning to feel optimistic about life again.....and then I went to that party last night at the home of a Martha Stewart clone...... which was enough to plunge this hapless homemaker into endless depres sion! So begins another week."}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (07:35)", "body": "I'm off to work this morning. I had a nice weekend. We had very pleasant weather here in Austin. I started topic 82 in hopes that some of you will email folks that are interested in the Spring. If you find someone to your liking in topic 82, please email them and let them know they are most welcome here on the Spring. This would be most appreciated. I finished tape one of P&P and am part way in to tape two. I'm savoring the experience of seeing these tapes!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (14:47)", "body": "Who is Martha Stewart? Should I know? Thanks for the virtual ducktape! I should really use some round here - three of our 11 ducklings have died, probably at the beak of our drake. What we will do when we go away is a problem. Saw Jackson Browne and Bonnie Raitt last night. JB was enjoyable, ultra smooth, BR was WONDERFUL, great voice, fantastic blues slide electric guitar, and one raunchy lady."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Grace", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (15:06)", "body": "Martha is the US doyenne of elegant entertaining. 'She' is an empire...does TV specials, has books by the dozen, her own magazine -Martha Stewart Living, and a catalog of upscale merchandise. People either adore her, or, as in my case, live to make fun o f her. Diane White, a columnist at the Boston Globe, has for years kept up an anti-Martha campaign. Martha parody books are a hot item for Christmas around here. Jackson Browne AND Bonnie Raitt? Wow."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (15:23)", "body": "quote for the day \"Boring Women Have Immaculate Homes\" (from my fridge magnet)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (16:40)", "body": "Hil, my nearly dead nap page has a Jackson Brown song as its theme song: http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wno.html"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (16:42)", "body": "Donna, tell your story about meeting Hornsby in the music conference, and I will tell about Mellencamp? Did we not tell each other we met them while pregnant?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (17:44)", "body": "Amy, do you mean the music conference here at spring? I haven't got beyond here yet. 'Running on Empty' is a great song, BTW. Sorry it is applicable to your nap page, though. Or are you happy its run its course? Just musing that its 16 years since John Lennon died. I still get sad about it. 'And so this is Chrismas, and what have you done, Another year over, a new one just begun'.... And Joni's still ricochetting around in my head: Its coming on Christmas They're cutting down trees They're putting up reindeer And singing songs of joy and peace. I wish I had a river I could skate away on...."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (18:46)", "body": "] Just musing that its 16 years since John Lennon died. ___ I happened to be in New York just after the murder and went to the Park for the vigil. I will never for get it."}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (20:25)", "body": "I love those old Joni Mitchell songs!!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "jane", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (23:09)", "body": "Hilary, I am so glad that Martha Stewart has not poisoned Australia yet. If she stages a coup and completely takes over here (she decorated the White House last year on her Christma she knows her way around), Grace, Anna and the rest of us may have to co me and hide out at your place. Jane"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (23:37)", "body": "Jane - I am in Australia :)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (23:52)", "body": "... at a safe distance from Martha Stewart."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (01:07)", "body": "I am no where near even the fringe of the nieghborhood of Christmas Cheer. I have baked no cookies, I have sent no cards, I have bought no presents, I have not decorated my house (I did decorate my piano studio for my students, but that's all.) I am up to my eyeballs in Christmas in everything I do but none of it has affected me. This is the busiest time for musicians, everyone wants special Christmas programs- I have 9 more events in addition to my regularly packed schedule in the next two weeks. I a so busy \"Making Christmas Bright\" for everyone else that I have none left for myself. An occupational hazard, I know, and in the past I've always been able to rise above it, but not this year. The only day I can even see a few open hours to shop is Dec . 23, and I get the heebie jeebies just thinking about entering a mall two days before Christmas! Santa, help me!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (09:23)", "body": "Anna, I realized after I posted my message that I was only guessing that you were within reach of Martha's clutches. That gives the rest of us another potential refulge! Cheryl, I am in a similar boat, not as busy so less of an excuse for failure to make cookies, decorate, shop. My husband is out of town this week so I am with our 2-year old--I tried to go shopping but had to chase her around, and ended up spending a few hours at the mall buying only stuff for her. But here's a shopping tip that I found out about on the Austen-L, and bought for my aunt. Blockbuster has, for $29.99, Persuasion and Sense and Sensibility packaged together. The problem is, it is probably better present for you than for anyone you know! Jane P.S. Music is such a great part of Christmas---at least you can enjoy your work!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (09:24)", "body": "It is funny how the weather changes here in Oulu, Finland. In the morning it is quite warm (about +2 degrees centigrade, which is warm this time of the year), and there's little water in the streets. In the evening, returning home, you have to walk through several inches (20 in worst cases) of snow, and the temperature is -15 degrees C. I have to get used to it. Usually it has been -20 and 20 inches of snow all the time. The worst point is that it is VERY slippery... Hope I'll live through Xmas, I'll visit my parents and eat well... And have a decent sauna, with my mother's healing spells. We belong to a family of witches, after all."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (09:57)", "body": "Real witches, Mixu? Tell. Jane, just think. Unless you are going to have more kids, it gets easier every second with the little ones. Today you can't shop. In another few months you will be able to avert your eyes for a few more seconds at a time to attend to what you need. Amy"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Grace", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (10:27)", "body": "Re 59:32 Joan, just wanted to let you know that my husband was able to croak his way through Monday's lecture and everything went well. (I had dragged him over to read your solution, he got quite a kick out of it.... and said to tell you thanks!) Grace P.S. This madhouse I live in also boasts siamese fighting fish....but we don't spoil ours with the worms you mentioned."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Grace", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (10:36)", "body": "Re 59:38 Anna, what an inspirational fridge magnet...BORING WOMEN HAVE IMMACULATE HOMES......I'd love to put one on my fridge but I find the dirt layer keeps magnets from sticking......time to buy a new fridge, I guess!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (13:04)", "body": "Hil, Re: Running on Empty 59:32 (Joan I am getting to like this notation) Did the MIDI link work for you? Amy"}, {"response": 54, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (14:16)", "body": "Re: 59:51 - Grace - glad he enjoyed it. :-) If you don't have to \"do\" tubifex worms, you must have a reliable supply of live brine shrimp - mine were too picky to eat the feeeze-dried ones. Amy, re: 59:53 - using the numbers is better than nothing, but not nearly as good as an automatically created link! For example, \"Re: Running on Empty 59:32\" - \"32\" is not about MIDI - it's about tubifex worms. (It's too easy to copy the wrong numbers! - especially for those of us who are numerically challenged! I count myself as one of these, having scored in the 4th percentile in a math aptitude test.) I have been playing around in the redisplay box below and have discovered that to go back just to a referred-to response, typing in \"32-32\" will get just that one response (which is how I knew that it was tubifex worms). And that typing a negative number , say \"-4\", will show just the last 4 responses."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (15:47)", "body": "] And that typing a negative number, say \"-4\", will show just the last 4 responses. ___ That might be handy."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (17:19)", "body": "\"Blockbuster has, for $29.99, Persuasion and Sense and Sensibility packaged together\" Thank you! I just called my local Blockbuster and they have it - and my husband is going x-mas shopping tomorrow night. Guess what just made it to the top of my list?!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (06:48)", "body": "I'm busier than you can imagine, and will be till the weekend. Keep the home fires burning Amy!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (07:01)", "body": "Mixu, have you discovered 'austen' yet? You're in for a treat!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (18:11)", "body": "I lost my wallet! This must be the worst time of year to be without credit cards."}, {"response": 60, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (19:13)", "body": "Gosh, sorry to hear this Ann. Is there any chance of retrieving it? Where did you lose it?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (22:41)", "body": "Oh Dear - you have my deepest sympathy. This time last year I had mine stolen. Had to stop and change everything - including house and car locks, since there were spares for both car and house in the wallet, and had no ID. Then about 3 weeks later a ma il carrier found it in the bushes in a neighboring community - everything there but the cash."}, {"response": 62, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (11:44)", "body": "Subject: \"software\" Last year, my friend upgraded his GirlFriend3.1 to GirlFriendPlus1.0 (marketing name: Fiancee1.0). Recently he upgraded Fiancee1.0 to Wife1.0 and it's a memory hogger, has taken all his space; and Wife1.0 must be running before he can do anything. Althoug h he didn't ask for them, Wife1.0 came with plug-ins such as MotherInLaw and BrotherInLaw. Some features I'd like to see in the upcoming GirlFriend4.0... - A \"Don't remind me again\" button - Minimize button - Shutdown feature - An installshield feature so that Girlfriend4.0 can be completely uninstalled if so desired (so you don't lose cache and other objects) I tried running Girlfriend 2.0 with Girlfriend 1.0 still installed, they tried using the same I/O port and conflicted. Then I tried to uninstall Girlfriend 1.0 but it didn't have an uninstall program. I tried to unstall it by hand, but it put files in m y system directory. Another thing that sucks -- in all versions of Girlfriend that I've used is that it is totally \"object orientated\" and only supports hardware with gold plated contacts. ***** BUG WARNING ******** Wife 1.0 has an undocumented bug. If you try to install Mistress 1.1 before uninstalling Wife 1.0, Wife 1.0 will delete MSMoney files before doing the uninstall itself. Then Mistress 1.1 will refuse to install, claiming insufficient resources. passing along funnies for the day. Mich"}, {"response": 63, "author": "drymartini", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (16:14)", "body": "Amy, #4 response. I got ahold of a stud finder once. It was recommended by Norm Abrams, I think. Well, I figured this device would soon have me in touch with one or more outstanding specimens of manhood. Unfortunately, the device was not a stud finder at all. It was a turkey caller. I guess the items got mixed up in the display; this happens at flea markets. As a turkey caller it was effective. Several real losers showed up and asked me for a date. A week later I donated the turkey caller to the Chamber of Commerce because they were holding their annual Sport-o-rama and there was to be a turkey calling contest. At the height of the contest, my ex flew in from Texas. So I know the turkey caller worked properly, when used by an expert. As for the bolt of unbleached muslin, you could make several sets of sheets. 108\" X 90\" for standard flat sheets, I think. That's after the hems. It's good to have plenty on hand if your stud finder works well. Keep us all posted, hear?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (16:57)", "body": "Amy, I could get through to click on \"Running on empty\" but then it just gave me coded screen messages, it didn't play anything."}, {"response": 65, "author": "trainmaster", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (08:06)", "body": "I'm new on this, but after reading this I don't feel so bad. Christmas is kind of a bummer this year. Both daughers left home this summer, and the house is empty. I have a new granddaughter in Germany that I haven't got to hold yet.So am not really in t he Christmas spirit yet. My best to all of you. As for Martha Stewart, I wish she was real. No one can be that creative all the the time. I think she is a defense department robot that went haywire. Have a happy holiday to all, and to all a good nig t!"}, {"response": 66, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (11:19)", "body": "That explains Martha Stewart! No wonder."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (17:11)", "body": "I found a nice #7 sable brush half covered with mud under a pine tree during my walk. I think it is a present."}, {"response": 68, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (20:20)", "body": "I called Scott Holman over at BIS and he got the dedicated ip to resolve. But that's another topic. I've been rambling around the house today, cleaning and organizing. I started today driving through the fog to a breakfast at IHOP. As they say around town, 'onward through the fog'. I feel like going out for a night time walk."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Kennebec", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (23:35)", "body": "Hmm. Been pretty noisy today. Attended #1 son's play off basketball game (we won), took same son Christmas shopping (he was miserable), went to my 91 year old grammies for a real baked bean supper (we go every Saturday night), came home around 10:00 to complete chaos. #1 Daughter crying because Dad had carted her away from 3 boys & 2 girls spell TROUBLE. (She is 14 and was horribly embarassed. One of the boys had been RUDE. Dad didn't like it. Parents call. Apologies. More howling. Daughter VERY MAD not at Rude Boy, no, Mad at Dad for intefering) This is the only quiet spot in the whole house (and it's already Sunday). By the way, I agreed with Dad and not Daughter and am trying to convince her that her 'friend' owes her a BIG apology. That the whole incident is really about respect and dignity. Being a parent is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life."}, {"response": 70, "author": "Mlydle", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (23:46)", "body": "Well, me and significant other were going out to eat when we decided to go by 15 year old stepson's fathers house (who is out of town) to check it out. Stepson was supposed to be spending the night at a friends house. Seems we had a idea that stepson mi ght be up to something. When we drove up to the house there were and wife unit walked in, about 50-75 adolescents scurried out of the house. The house was full of beer, liquer etc.. When it was time to go stepson had set it up where one of his friends icked him up and he left. We chased after him but to no avail. Needless to say, stepson is grounded till next year, which I do not know if that is more of a punishment for me/us or him."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (01:20)", "body": "I am so glad I do not have kids!"}, {"response": 72, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (01:38)", "body": "And that's what I'll have the privileged to, in about 10 years. Preparing myself, I think...."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Cynthia7", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (07:07)", "body": "Hi, I'm new to Ramble. It's about dawn in S.F.Sunday morning the 15th. I hoping to get some leads on how to find out information about who actually makes those holiday ornaments in China, etc. or the toys. Having just watched the TV special last Sunday Mrs. Santa Claus, and the part about the kids making thetoys, I couldn't help wonder, as I went shopping yesterday. Me, I'm getting my elementary teaching credential with an emphasis in technology. If posssible, now that finals are just about over, I'd like to throw up a web page about this topic. The page would be dedicated to Iqbal Masih http://www.digitalrag.com/mirror/iqbal.html a 12 year old who was killed on Easter Sunday organizing against child labor My e-mail address is crapak@sfsu.edu. not the one that I had to register with Any leads would be appreciated. I'll try to check back on this conference but e-mailing me directly would also be appreciated since time is short and I want to have it up before next week shopping. I'll be doing research on who makes toys for leading toy makers, GUND, etc. and other importers who may or may not be using children to make the ornaments, toys. Happy Holidays Please feel free to forward this request to any appropriate list etc. Thanks for the help!"}, {"response": 74, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (09:15)", "body": "Sure, we'll be happy to let you set up your web page. Send your request to: mailto://terry@spring.com Be sure to let me know what username you would like."}, {"response": 75, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (10:02)", "body": "Terry and Amy - there are now so many threads - that it takes a long time to review just today's messages. Lots of IO time just to see that person \"A\" is LOL at person B's comment yesterday. I love those comments, but there is a lot of download time inv olved here. If we get a day or two behind, we drown. Is it possible to combined threads - maybe the older ones - on similar topics so we of limited time can cover the ground a little quicker. Maybe after a topic is a week old, it could be folded in with other similar topics. We have two addiction threads, two duckfaces, several minor character threads, lots of others that could be combined so that IO time could be reduced."}, {"response": 76, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (10:10)", "body": "The way to \"combine threads\" or topics as they're called, would be copy and paste a complete topic into a single response in another topic then \"scribble\" it. Or make it hidden unless you clicked on it. We'd have to ask Dave how to implement a scribble command or hide command or whatever you wanted to call it. It's not currently implemented. But this could be a solution. Is this what you mean?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (10:26)", "body": "Re; It seems that you have to be one step ahead of them. At least no one was injuried. I would definitly ground him{a year is pretty hard to enforce} and make him do chores around the house.My son said {who is 13} he should not be allowed to drive until{n o permit} he is 18 years old. I am very surprised at this punishment. He knows that most kids can't wait to drive just, like him."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (20:14)", "body": "I just got caught up on reading my e-mail! 37 messages deleted from the trash bin! Whoohoo!! Free at last, free at last, thank God amighty, I'm free at last! (at least until tomorrow...)"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Saman", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (02:50)", "body": "I hate what Christmas does to my hard-earned savings (perhaps dislike is a better word). I went shopping today for the major presents which I have been planning to but for weeks and ended up spending twice as much as I intended - mainly on stuff for me! I just checked my email and I got a lovely reply from the moderator of the Crowded House list I subscribe to. In my eagerness to inform the listies of an upcoming interview I mailed them, and then when it bounced back I mailed it again (and perhaps even a third time). Stupid me - it only bounced from one list member so now people around the world think I'm a hopeless newbie (I really dislike that). But Marck (the list operator) was really sweet and has made me feel a whole lot better. I think I'll stic to lurking on that list, and compensate by posting excessively here, because it's such a supporting environment :)"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (08:34)", "body": "Amy (and all the others who are interested) Yes, a sort of. You know, the meaning here in Finland is a little bit different. It actually means \"A family with strange powers\", or something like that. Anyway, in my family there HAS been a real witch (I think it was my great-great-grandfather), who could, for example, make the neighbour's cows to disappear. Then there are some healers (like my mother's uncle, and, to a limited extent, my mother) and my elder little brother sometimes sees the future in his dreams. My gift is the same that my grandmother (from my mother's side, because that's the family) had: I have an inborn empathy towards people and animals. Sometimes I can predict very accurately the actions of some people, even though I don't know them well. It usually works for friends only, though. A disturbing gift, I'd say. I even saw the destruction of my 1,5 year relationship, because my girlfriend fell in love with a good friend of mine. I was the one that knew it first (even before they did), but since I've sworn I won't try to interfere with my empathy, I did nothing. Maybe it wouldn't have helped. They are married now, and happy. I think. I should visit them at Christmas... Okay, that's enough for now about the Finnish witches. I think it was no wonder that in medieval times the Finns were feared wizards. There's still some of the powers left. I know of a couple of other witch families, too."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (17:34)", "body": "I have a similar ability to your brother's. Sometimes, when I am about to fall asleep, I get a sort of dream, but with a difference--I know that they are predictive of the future. Before I ever went to college, or ever visited the campus, I saw a glimpse of one of the classrooms and the teacher giving a lecture; about two years later what I saw came true. It used to happen much more often when I was younger, but actually occurred t wice on the same day last week. As a physicist and a scientist this is a bit disturbing. I must conclude from personal experience that time is not linear, but folds upon itself in a way which allows information from one time to be viewed in another. I also keep in mind a line from Billy-Boy: There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. (By the way I'm 1/4 Finnish (my paternal grandmother))"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Mlydle", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (19:47)", "body": "In regard to the punishment for stepson, we agreed for him to be grounded till Christmas. You all are right, you must stay one step ahead of them. He being only 18 years younger than me helps as well. It only seems like yesterday that I was up to simil ar shaningans. In regards to the above, Well I have to think about whether time is not linear, but folds upon itself. Being of the logical sorts who did too much experimentation when younger, I tend to pulled between logic and experience."}, {"response": 83, "author": "maddog", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (15:52)", "body": "Terry, just checked out the apps conference looking for help on a problem I have been having with realaudio - yikes, that conference is huge! - anyhow I kept getting a server error message when I tried to get into the realaudio section - thought I should let you know and also to ask who/where else could I turn for help with realaudio questions - specifically I am looking for a way to obtain a new copy of the old raplayer 2.x plugin for netscape/win 3.x - it seems that now that realaudio has come out with .0, they don't offer it anymore (snobs)- and 3.0 merely taunts me with bandwidth error messages on my poor old 486/14,400 set up.... I tried clicking my red shoes together and saying \"there's no place like version 2.x\", but it didn't work......"}, {"response": 84, "author": "cat", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (19:15)", "body": "Hello Peoples! My computer has been used by my mother and younger brother for the past WEEK. It has been hard to be away for so long but I have comforted myself and have started to read Northangar Abbey. Who is ready for the Flu\\Cold season? The Octe t (my singing group) gave a concert this morning. Yours Truely got a solo in \"Emmanuel\" ....in our darkness, in our bondage, child of hope we long for thee, walk among us, dwell within us, be our light and set us free, Emmanuel, Emmanuel, our God is with us now Emmanuel, the daystar of our night is sleeping on the straw, be with us now Emmanuel.....Isn't that song BEAUTIFUL! I am also singing it on Christmas Eve. Is that cool or what?"}, {"response": 85, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (20:51)", "body": "Maddog, check out http://www.realaudio.com and try our conference again. That server error happens every now and then but you'll probably be able to get in next time."}, {"response": 86, "author": "maddog", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (14:03)", "body": "thanks - I all ready been to realaudio, of course they no longer offer 2.0 (must have partners in the modem business) - It's really a drag when a company will not support a product that is less than a year old, just because they have a newer release. It k ind of leaves people like me in the lurch if we can't go buy a new pentium to run their new product. (sounds like some other company I won't mention but whose initials are microsoft!) I will check your realaudio conference again to see if there is anyone that made a backup copy of version 2.0 they might share..."}, {"response": 87, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (11:05)", "body": "Ladies, just have to share the words of wisdom on my perpetual calendar yesterday; reading it made my day. \"There's nothing wrong in the world that a sensible woman couldn't settle in an afternoon\". Happy Holidays!"}, {"response": 88, "author": "drymartini", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (19:53)", "body": "Amy-- have you used all your muslin? I heard there is a KKK for persons of color: they call it the Black Muslins. Cat-- I hope your friend Tara is doing okay and you are feeling better about that ugly situation. Maybe the kids who stole Tara's Bible will peek inside and find something helpful. I find it very hard to pray for people who are mean to me, or to others. B ut when I am able to, it is liberating. Cheryl-- we have something in common. I teach computer stuff a lot these days, but I have not been able to give up teaching piano. But hey, keyboards is keyboards, hmmm? I like to think about how the piano was developed by Bart. Cristofori, whose huge tro uble was perfecting the escapement. But they said it couldn't be done-- you couldn't have a keyboard instrument that you could control, as to amplitude or loudness, by the way you struck the keys! Then many years later the whole thing was repeated from Mo g on, with electronic keyboards finally becoming polyphonic and TOUCH RESPONSIVE. Wow! I think Bach would have been nuts about electronic music stuff. Joyous holidays, all!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "maddog", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (21:55)", "body": "Terry - within 24 hours of posting my plea about my realaudio problems in your apps conference, I have been in contact with a very fine dude named David Bowles who searched/found and mailed me a new copy of version 2.0! I bow long and low to him, you, and The Spring for making this possible - I never fail to be in awe of the power of the net and the kindness of the people I have met here. peace and joy"}, {"response": 90, "author": "cat", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (07:54)", "body": "I can't believe Christmas is only 3 days away!"}, {"response": 91, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (17:10)", "body": "I am so bored I changed the curtains in my kitchen. Just a few things to wrap and a couple of cookies to bake. Hope everyone has most of their shopping done because I know I hate fighting the crowds. that must be the reason why it is so quite around here . Merry Christmas."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (00:32)", "body": "I know that some of my friends here have been concerned about me and my complete and utter lack of Christmas spirit. I have had a few glimpses of it this past week; last Thursday when I attended the Jr. High School Band Concert and watched 11 of my piano or handbell kids play their band instruments in public for the first time, and again at my students Christmas Piano Recital, all of them dressed up in their Sunday best and playing all the old favorites! This morning my church choir offered our Annual Christmas Cantata and I felt the closest to Christmas that I have been, singing the wonderful words about our Lord choosing to become one of us to save us. I even came home and did some decorating! Tomorro w I am spending the day baking, for who can be a Grinch when eating Grandma's famous Christmas cookies! I am very thankful this Christmas for all the new friends I have found here. God bless you all!"}, {"response": 93, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (02:58)", "body": "God Bless You Merry Gentlepeople at this festive time. I'm so pleased to have met all of the wonderful people who make up the growing band of Austenites. I am especially thankful to Amy and Terry for their time, patience and perseverance, and of course their server space."}, {"response": 94, "author": "lars", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (16:56)", "body": "Hi Terry. Hmm. Suspected we had similar ancestry. Pretty nice place! Soon on way to bar to see friends before all take off for xmas. Fill myself with liquid \"charm and intelligence.\" Then probably enter cyberspace - again. Merry holidays to all from Frisco! Lars"}, {"response": 95, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (22:08)", "body": "You're Norwegian Lars?"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (22:41)", "body": "Today, my sister and I trekked out into the blizzard we are experiencing here in Minneapolis and went to what locals refer to as the Mega-Mall, also known, more formally, as the Mall of America--the largest shopping mall in the United States (there is a larger one in Edminton Canada). I was pleasently suprised to find that the mall wasn't very crowded--on this Christmas-Eve Eve. Perhaps even hearty Minnesotans were afraid to wade through the snow and ice to go shopping (thank God for 4-WD!). But I believe it is more likely that they were all hanging their heads in shame after the trouncing the Vikings took yesterday at the hands of the Green Bay Packers 38-10 (GO PACK!!!). Your Eternal Cheesehead--Ann"}, {"response": 97, "author": "Mlydle", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (00:41)", "body": "Well, here in Austin its a balmy 60-70 degrees. Being of the male persuasion, I find myself compelled to wait till the last 2-3 days to shop, so I was one of the many hurried masses going madly from place to place (thank god for Valium and relaxation tap es) trying to find that perfect gift within my price range. Need a John Madden Super Nintendo ASAP, stepson can't have all clothes. And all the while trying what this years Christmas symbolizes to me. But more on that later, Wallmart is open 24 hours.. ."}, {"response": 98, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (04:14)", "body": "So, Ann, you're one of those folks we see on tv with face painted green and a big block of cheese mounted atop their heads?"}, {"response": 99, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (01:17)", "body": "I got a cheesehead for Christmas!"}, {"response": 100, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (06:32)", "body": "Can we see a picture of you wearing a cheesehead on your web page?"}, {"response": 101, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (11:18)", "body": "I'll work on it! Thanks Terry for giving me a home page. It's up and running--and extremely boring at the moment (www.spring.com/~anneh/). It's basically all of my bookmarks. I'll work on making it more interesting. My sister has a scanner and said she will scan whatever I want, but she lives in California, about to embark on a three week trip to Italy, so it will be a while before any cheesehead pictures could possibly appear."}, {"response": 102, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (11:58)", "body": "I have a scanner too, if anyone needs to mail pictures to me for their webpage."}, {"response": 103, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (13:11)", "body": "Hey Ann, I'm majorly bummed out that you didn't include your very own graphic that I made just for you, on your webpage. I spent five minutes looking for the quote and a whole fifteen minutes slaving over a hot Photoshop to make the graphic, so I think i t's the least you could do..."}, {"response": 104, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (14:31)", "body": "The cheesehead shot?"}, {"response": 105, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (21:46)", "body": "Check out my HTML Tags Tutorial: www.spring.com/~anneh/tagsaaaa.html Any advice on changes or additions are very welcome. I do like my graphic Henry. I will put it up."}, {"response": 106, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (17:09)", "body": "Thanks Ann for so pleasantly reminding me of why I don't live in Minnesota anymore, and why visiting Minnesota is much more pleasant in the summertime. The Mall of America is awesome, and so close to the airport when I come for those summer visits. Happ y New (and hopefully warmer) Year!"}, {"response": 107, "author": "drymartini", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (11:20)", "body": "Careful with those tranks, now. Say, have you seen this new product that contains tranks and aspertame? It's called EqualLibrium. Hope you made it back safely from the bar where you stocked up on charm, etc. I have been doing extensive research into the construction of bottles, there being a major container maker in my town. I have discovered that most bottlenecks are at the t op. Tried to explain this to my managing editor; he is not convinced. Does your research bear out my conclusions, Lars? Or do we need to continue gathering data, replicating our results? When we have enough data, will we be able to perform analyses and re ort our findings?"}, {"response": 108, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (13:25)", "body": "My girlfriend and I took my 3 kids and her eldest daughter out for Pizza.Of course they always bring the pitcher of soda to soon.By the time the pizza came it was all gone.I had some left in my cup and eldest daughter had some left in hers. When my kids a re thristy watch out for your drink. My six year old says \"Hey Gee\" your not drinking your soda\"\"How come\"? \"May I please have some\" she said \"Sure\". His reply was \"thanks\" \"and If you don't mind I'll take the straw too\".It was done in the politest manner for a six year old don't ya think.We all jumped on the poor kid Scotty! It was funny.Then they had to play the jukebox\"Grandma Got Ran Over by a Raindeer\" it was hilarous.They all started singing. This is why I don't go out very much. What a scene???"}, {"response": 109, "author": "TJ", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (14:03)", "body": "WOW, first time i came to this area, but then again i haven't been around in a while....had to read all 108 entries as new.....what an interesting bunch of comments, statements, conversations, questions & answers. Absolutely loved it, sure wish this wa s an open chat..... I would definitely like to talk to many of you regularly........ Terry have you thought about putting in a chat area.......??????????"}, {"response": 110, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (18:58)", "body": "We have a chat room. You can get to this from the link on the main Austen Conference page. It is the Pemberley Drawing Room: http://www.worldrch.com/cgibin/Chat/nph-chat.cgi"}, {"response": 111, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (21:21)", "body": "Good to see you coming around again TJ. One of these times I'm gonna make it for darts at the tavern down in Bastrop. Let me know when the next one is going to be ok? We can get our own chat room if folks want it. The kind Pemberly folks have offered us their software if we want it. It's not ichat, but it's not bad stuff."}, {"response": 112, "author": "TJ", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (10:31)", "body": "from the looks of the stuff on the ramble page, it might be a good idea to have our own chat area.......at least see if anyone else has an interest.......but right now I think I'll check out the Pemberly Drawing Room.........Paul, yea it is nice to be bac k......do you have anything to do the Bastrop Internet Services??????.......do you know Daryl Kouba??????......hope to see you on Thursday (darts)..........."}, {"response": 113, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (10:35)", "body": "I have two servers on the bastrop.net. I can't get a hold of the kid who does their web page. I'm looking for someone in the Bastrop area, a high school kid would be ok, who can work part time at the Spring installing networks, configuring servers, and doing data entry work. I have a plan to make the Spring a world class web site and I am starting to sense an organization forming. The folks in the Austen conference are really pitching in and helping out and starting to take part in some website projects. But I need some help locally now."}, {"response": 114, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (13:56)", "body": "There are a group of us (about 10) who have formed a music group here at work to exercise our mutual love of music. Twice a month, we reserve a conference room, bring in our instruments and meet together during lunch hour. I play piano and keyboard (at work) and sing, all just a little and very ill, indeed. But, it is something else that affords me an extraordinary source of pleasure (like Jane Austen). We play and sing lots of different kinds of music because we have different tastes which include popular, country, standards, classical. We haven't had the nerve to attempt jazz, yet. One of the pieces that we do frequently is Handel's Largo from \"Xerxe s which is the piece that Mary sings in P&P2 (at the Netherfield Ball, I think). For the past couple of years, we have hosted a Christmas sing-along where we play and sing holiday music in the cafeteria and invite the entire building to join us. It has been well received. Today, I ran into Karen, who is a fellow music group member. As we were chatting, we discovered a mutual love of P&P and P&P2. I'm so excited!! I think that I can create yet another addict. Now, besides you wonderful internet friends, I will be able to talk about Jane Austen face to face with Karen at work and with my friend Barbra after working hours. 1997 is going to be great!!! Happy New Year to you all !!!"}, {"response": 115, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (14:13)", "body": "Linda, That music group sounds really delightful. I recently found out that a woman who works where I do is a longtime committed lurker to this board. She didn't recognize me from my postings, but we found out by accident that we both like this place. And the significant other of a man I work with is a frequent visitor to Firthdom, and has a copy of The Making of P&P that she will lend me. Small world, indeed. Jane"}, {"response": 116, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (20:29)", "body": "Well, here it is New Year's Eve, and the state of the northern part of the state (CA) could be better. The Russian River is now 2 feet above flood stage and the people up there have been told to evacuate or prepare to be stranded. So much for the ir New Year's Eve plans... While the rain has not been excessive in my immediate neighborhood, 3 of our local reservoirs are full-up and spilling over their dams, and our entire TV cable system has \"broken\" somewhere and they don't yet know where or why. Before it broke we saw a few seconds of the New Year's fireworks in Sidney Harbour - and I think I spotted Ian waving at the camera. Happy New Year, all!"}, {"response": 117, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (20:38)", "body": "Rain has been excessive here {in PA.} to Joan. We had a flood in the Summer of 1972. Are you worried about flooding? The weather man said we only had more rain \"100\" years ago. Now that is very strange."}, {"response": 118, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (20:58)", "body": "I am not concerned for my own estate being flooded, but it is sad to see it happening to our neighbors to the north again - they got it badly in 1986 and again in 1995, and here they go again... Many vineyards are already under 3 to 4 feet of wate r..."}, {"response": 119, "author": "McBruce", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (21:32)", "body": "Heading into 1997 in the Last Frontier, our weather isn't threatening just darn inconvenient. Forecast for tonight is 40-45 below, extended forecast thru sunday is 30-60 below. On the plus side, tomorrow we break the 4 hour mark of available daylight! Had the truck plugged in all afternoon so it would start tonight, now the question is how long I can stay out before it freezes up. A happy and peaceful 1997 to all!"}, {"response": 120, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (00:00)", "body": "This all makes Boston's 20 degrees F. and 1 inch of snow seem so anemic. I wish you all a more pleasant '97."}, {"response": 121, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (04:29)", "body": "On the subject of one in a hundred year rainfalls; about 5 years ago sydney had the third of 3 one in a hundred year rains in 4 years - ain't statistics wonderful. In the ritzy part of town a Jaguar was swept down the street and deposited on top of someo ne's Mercedes; truly impressive rain. Still, at least it was summer, so warm, if wet. I hope those in need dry out soon."}, {"response": 122, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (04:54)", "body": "It is warm (relatively speaking) though wet here - it is pouring as I type yet at almost 3 AM it is only 64 F outside. Pineapple express for sure!"}, {"response": 123, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (10:58)", "body": "Austin's sixth street partied down last night and I got a video of myself at the stroke of midnight on the Springs' main page . I started out at the KOOP party at Armageddon and ended up with the masses on Sixth, watching the big silver start get hoisted by a huge crane. Now, I'm sitting in Cedar Creek with my coffee and toast. Happy New Year everyone!"}, {"response": 124, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (23:53)", "body": "For all of you suffering through some absolutely awful winter weather, we in southern California are busy taking good care of all the truly nice weather for you and would be vastly happy to send it your way at any time convenient!"}, {"response": 125, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (16:20)", "body": "Mary, my visiting daughter would greatly appreciate it if you would send your truly nice weather to Seattle. She's heading back there tomorrow and would like to return to decent weather!;-)"}, {"response": 126, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (17:58)", "body": "and would be vastly happy to send it your way at any time convenient! Please do not stand on ceremony or await an invitation! Any time at all would be convenient! Stepping on my lawn sounds and feels like treading on saturated sponges. :-("}, {"response": 127, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (18:23)", "body": "Hi Terry, we still cannot access news.prismnet.com for quite some time after you switch from iamerica.net. It seems like prismnet did not open usenet access for our IP addresses. Hope you can check this matter and happy new year."}, {"response": 128, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "I'll look into it Ted. Thanks."}, {"response": 129, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (00:03)", "body": "Terry, if prismnet granted us usenet access, we can use tin to access the usenet news, but you have to do (at shell prompt): rm /etc/nntpserver ; echo news.prismnet.com > /etc/nntpserver so all of us can access the news. Hope it helps."}, {"response": 130, "author": "lilah", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "It's just after 9 pm here in South Florida, and I'm recovering from a day at work that can best be described as, \"OK, folks, the holidays are over.\" Yikes. I'm an editor, learning a new city and looking for a new circle of friends. I just found the Spring yesterday -- not to mention the Austen group. I suspect I've found some kindred spirits."}, {"response": 131, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (20:45)", "body": "Where did you come from Lilah? What kind of editor?"}, {"response": 132, "author": "lilah", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (22:14)", "body": "Amy, I moved here from Hoboken, N J, where I lived for a number of years, working in Manhattan and New Jersey as a newspaper editor. I do the same thing here, for a group of small specialty papers."}, {"response": 133, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "Terry, you didn't say that this topic was in multiple Conferences! I just thought I'd visit the Cultures Conference and 'lo what did I see but this topis! Tch tch!"}, {"response": 134, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (20:32)", "body": "]topic was in multiple Conferences! That's been apparent from the postings from \"strangers\" for some time. It's also in porch"}, {"response": 135, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (17:41)", "body": "When you do a listing of topics, it states that it's a \"linked topic\"."}, {"response": 136, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (20:29)", "body": "It also states \"linked item\" every time you read new stuff in it right at the top of the topic. On future \"linked topics\" I'll post a note that they are linked in the intro or in one of the responses to make this clear."}, {"response": 137, "author": "geekman", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (04:09)", "body": "Thanks Terry! Will be much appreciated. From within the Austen Conference this time."}, {"response": 138, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (22:22)", "body": "_______________________________________________________ \"Why did the chicken cross the road?\" ----------------------------------------------------- Plato: For the greater good. Karl Marx: It was a historical inevitability. Thomas de Torquemada: Give me ten minutes with the chicken and I'll find out. Timothy Leary: Because that's the only kind of trip the Establishment would let it take. Douglas Adams: Forty-two. Nietzsche: Because if you gaze too long across the Road, the Road gazes also across you. Oliver North: National Security was at stake. Carl Jung: The confluence of events in the cultural gestalt necessitated that individual chickens cross roads at this historical juncture, and therefore synchronicitously brought such occurrences into being. Jean-Paul Sartre: In order to act in good faith and be true to itself, the chicken found it necessary to cross the road. Ludwig Wittgenstein: The possibility of \"crossing\" was encoded into the objects \"chicken\" and \"road,\" and circumstances came into being which caused the actualization of this potential occurrence. Albert Einstein: Whether the chicken crossed the road or the road crossed the chicken depends upon your frame of reference. Aristotle: To actualize its potential. Buddha: If you ask this question, you deny your own chicken-nature. Salvador Dali: The Fish. Darwin: It was the logical next step after coming down from the trees. Emily Dickinson: Because it could not stop for death. Epicurus: For fun. Ralph Waldo Emerson: It didn't cross the road; it transcended it. Johann Friedrich von Goethe: The eternal hen-principle made it do it. Ernest Hemingway: To die. In the rain. Werner Heisenberg: We are not sure which side of the road the chicken was on, but it was moving very fast. David Hume: Out of custom and habit. Saddam Hussein: This was an unprovoked act of rebellion and we were quite justified in dropping 50 tons of nerve gas on it. Jack Nicholson: 'cause it (censored) wanted to. That's the (censored) reason. Pyrrho the Skeptic: What road? Ronald Reagan: I forget. John Sununu: The Air Force was only too happy to provide the transportation, so quite understandably the chicken availed himself of the opportunity. The Sphinx: You tell me. Sappho: Due to the loveliness of the hen on the other side, more fair than all of Hellas' fine armies. Henry David Thoreau: To live deliberately ... and suck all the marrow out of life. Mark Twain: The news of its crossing has been greatly exaggerated. Stephen Jay Gould: It is possible that there is a sociobiological explanation for it, but we have been deluged in recent years with sociobiological stories despite the fact that we have little direct evidence about the genetics of behavior, and we do not know how to obtain it for the specific behaviors that figure most prominently in sociobiological speculation. Joseph Stalin: I don't care. Catch it. Crack its eggs to make my omlette. Captain James T. Kirk: To boldly go where no chicken has gone before. Machiavelli: So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road, but also with fear, for whom among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely chicken's dominion maintained. Hippocrates: Because of an excess of pleghm in its pancreas. Andersen Consultant: Deregulation of the chicken's side of the road was threatening its dominant market position. The chicken was faced with significant challenges to create and develop the competencies required for the newly competitive market. Andersen Consulting, in a partnering relationship with the client, helped the chicken by rethinking its physical distribution strategy and implementation processes. Using the Poultry Integration Model (PIM) Andersen helped the chicken use its skills, methodologies, knowledge capital and experiences to align the chicken's people, processes and technology in support of its overall strategy within a Program Management framework. Andersen Consulting convened a diverse cross-spectrum of road analysts and best chickens along with Andersen consultants with deep skills in the transportation industry to engage in a two-day itinerary of meetings in order to leverage their personal knowledge capital, both tacit and explicit, and to enable them to synergize with each other in order to achieve the implicit goals of delivering and successfully architecting and implementing an enterprise-wide value framework across the continuum of poultry cross-median processes. The meeting was held in a park like setting enabling and creating an impactful environment which was strategically based, industry-focused, and built upon a consistent, clear, and unified market message and aligned with the chicken's mission, vision, and core values. This was conducive towards the creation of a total business integration solution. Andersen Consulting helped the chicken change to become more successful. Johnny Cochr"}, {"response": 139, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "ROFLOL!!!"}, {"response": 140, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:52)", "body": "Anna: \"ROFLOL!!!\" Me Too!!! :-)"}, {"response": 141, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (05:21)", "body": "There's a slightly different collection linked to from near the end of the Jane Austen jokes file at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austt10j.html ; this version includes a Pride and Prejudice version of the chicken joke..."}, {"response": 142, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "Oh dear... Oh dear... I have to wipe my eyes now to resume my viewing."}, {"response": 143, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "Another ROFLOL. With your permission, may I e-mail this to my children - they love these things and I usually get jokes from them."}, {"response": 144, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "Oh, Inko. No permission required. I am on a list of one of those infamous net jokers. These things just get passed around. Usually the things she sends are stupid, but if I get an LOL from any of them as I did with this, I shall put them up."}, {"response": 145, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "SAY CHEESE!!! WE ARE GOING TO THE SUPERBOWL!!!"}, {"response": 146, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (17:07)", "body": "Ann - I am happy for you. and for all those barechested men in the stands the announcers kept talking about. what a way to call the rest of us sissies."}, {"response": 147, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (17:30)", "body": "There's joy in cheeshead land."}, {"response": 148, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "]There's joy in cheeshead land. Not to mention Beantown!"}, {"response": 149, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (19:18)", "body": "Congratulations Ann (Cheesehead) and Myretta (Beantowner) - it's nice to see some different teams in the Superbowl. Now - are you two going to have a bet on the outcome????;-)"}, {"response": 150, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (19:49)", "body": "Alright, the beaner and the cheeshead toe to toe."}, {"response": 151, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (20:09)", "body": "Yummmm, does this mean that at all the Super Bowl parties -- Bean dip and Cheese Doritos will be served?"}, {"response": 152, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (20:40)", "body": "Woo-hoo, Ann...maybe it will help you forget last year ? ;)"}, {"response": 153, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (20:43)", "body": "BTW, people...only a month until catchers and pitchers report to Spring Training. Can't wait. Go Braves."}, {"response": 154, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (20:54)", "body": "PLEASE, Mrs. Bennet, no sports, I BEG you! :-("}, {"response": 155, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (22:09)", "body": "That's why I put it in the ramble topic, Joan. It is supposed to be for anything one might want to say. As for me, though I will be cheering for Green Bay, I have absolutely no faith in the team and fully expect them to choke."}, {"response": 156, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (00:26)", "body": "Ann, have a little faith! ;) --- Joan, sports can be a very welcome diversion from computers, I must say...I hope to be able to make at least one Giants-Braves series at the 'Stick (okay, 3-Com!) this year...anybody else out there like baseball? ANYBODY???!!!"}, {"response": 157, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (01:11)", "body": "Kali: anybody else out there like baseball? ANYBODY???!!! Kali, I'm a big Detroit Tigers fan, growing up in Michigan it was a part of my childhood training just like ice skating and mosquito slapping! I spent many happy days at Tiger Stadium as a child...can't believe they're going to tear down that beautiful o ld stadium! :-("}, {"response": 158, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (01:49)", "body": "I grew up a Cardinals fan. St. Louis. Busch Stadium. Joe Garagiola, Harry Carey, Jack Buck and Tim McCarver used to broadcast the games on KMOX."}, {"response": 159, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (03:13)", "body": "Harry Caray...sigh...I've grown up on Skip Caray... Yay for you guys...baseball lives! And yes, Cheryl...stadiumwrecking is a crying shame...I had the displeasure of seeing Comiskey in varying degrees of demolition whilst the new Comiskey was constructed...almost like the life was being sucked out of the old stadium and being pumped into the new..."}, {"response": 160, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (03:41)", "body": "Congratulations Ann or should I say Slart ? So your team is in the final. Well, the beleaguered Australian One Day Cricket Team has missed out on the World Series Cricket Finals for the first time in 17 years! And on top of that is the New South Wales Shield Team losing very badly to Western Australia , in their Sheffield Shield match at the Sydney Cricket Ground. Now let me tell yo all that when NSW Cricket is strong, Australia is strong! So come on NSW and Come On Aussie ! Oh, Cheryl , now if you would really like to see some venerable old grounds, come and see our grand stands at our Cricket Grounds!"}, {"response": 161, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (03:44)", "body": "I drove by some folks playing cricket in Austin the other day. Will you please start a cricket topic in the sports conference Ian?"}, {"response": 162, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (03:51)", "body": "If you'd like me too, Terry! BTW, what are you doing up at this hour?!? Now if you were in Australia... :-)"}, {"response": 163, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (04:42)", "body": "I had to come in to work early today because we're facing an ice storm and the company I work for is on a crash project and need everyone they can to be here. I'm not normally up at this hour. Have you seen that austen is the feature on the Spring's main page today? If I were in Australia I'd probably be warmer now."}, {"response": 164, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (07:47)", "body": "Another connection, Cheryl. I grew up as a Tiger fan too. Stormin' Norman Cash, Al Kaline (saw him hit a grand slam once), my mother's heartthrob, Rocky Colavito (sp?) And Terry, you lived in St. Louis? Me from 76-80. End of the Lou Brock days, hot muggy afternoons in left field. Attended the 7th game of the 80 world series."}, {"response": 165, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (12:40)", "body": "Kali, gang; live in Milwaukee, and my hubby was one of the many enjoying themselves at 1 degree above zero yesterday (although I hope, I very much hope, NOT one of the barechested ones! :) ) Anyway, baseball is my game; started as a Braves fan (yes, here in Milwaukee when I was just a sprig), have become a Brewers fan. I can enjoy any baseball game; when we vacation outside of Duluth in the summer we go to Duluth Dukes games; fabulous fun, e specially if the San Diego chicken is visiting."}, {"response": 166, "author": "yairl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (14:19)", "body": "i've got to know how to make a good pizza any ideas????????"}, {"response": 167, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (14:51)", "body": "Must have a stone, Yair. That is the first thing -- unless you are doing deep disih. Amy Who Used to Live in Chicago"}, {"response": 168, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (15:27)", "body": "Amy: Another connection, Cheryl. I grew up as a Tiger fan too. Stormin' Norman Cash, Al Kaline (saw him hit a grand slam once), my mother's heartthrob, Rocky Colavito (sp?) Cool, Amy...I still look back on my 9th birthday as very special...I spent it with my Mom at Tiger Stadium watching a Twi-Night Double header against the hated Yankees...Tigers won both games, Al Kaline hit a homer in one, Mickey Lolich got a one-hitter i n the other and the Tigers went on to win the Series that year ('68,of course, not '84!) Can still sing the Tiger fight song I learned in 4th grade...\"Sock it to 'em Tigers, show 'em how to play...)"}, {"response": 169, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (17:29)", "body": "Not 'Teach me tiger', Cheryl????"}, {"response": 170, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (17:36)", "body": "We're all behind our baseball team. Go get em tigers. Right? Go get em, Detroit Tigers. Go get em Tigers!"}, {"response": 171, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "I like the Saint Paul Saints--Northern League team that put the fun back into going to see baseball games. They are a total hoot. (Daryl Strawberry slept here)"}, {"response": 172, "author": "lilah", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:44)", "body": "Terry, Amy -- St. Louis is my home town. I remember seeing Stan Musial play at old Sportsman's Park (I was a tiny child, OK?) There ARE no announcers to compare with Jack Buck and Harry Caray describing the game on a hot August night on KMOX -- \"this is t he Cardinal baseball network.\""}, {"response": 173, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "Yay! More baseball fans! Wow, Mari...you're an even older Bravie than I am...I got hooked back in the eighties, when they still sucked...a great time to love baseball, b/c every game was personal. Fay Vincent was even threatening to review our status as an Atlanta team! I still have my Dale Murphy baseball card collection...over 300 cards, including his two rookie cards and one I got autographed. --- Good pizza? Zachary's stuffed is the best...they make their dough with beer and put the sauce on top and the toppings inside (go figure)...unfortunately, you can only get Zack's in Oakland and Berkeley...:("}, {"response": 174, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (23:14)", "body": "Talking, pizza : fav : thin crust with pesto, goat cheese, green and black olives, onions, prosciutto and walnuts. Other one is curried chicken pizza If you're in the vicinity of Montreal, go or order at Pizzedelic."}, {"response": 175, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (08:27)", "body": "Another Braves fan here! The Murph was great, also BRUUUUCE Benedict and Jeff Treadway and Lonnie Smith (so what if he fell for the deke--they should have been able to get him home). Go Braves!!!"}, {"response": 176, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (16:16)", "body": "LLohr (lilah)''There ARE no announcers to compare with Jack Buck and Harry Caray describing the game on a hot August night on KMOX -- \"this is the Cardinal baseball network.\"'' Lilah, I beg to differ; there is nothing like driving home from your summer vacation and enjoying Bob Uecker announcing the Sunday afternoon Brewer's game...''Get up..Get up.. Get outta here....''"}, {"response": 177, "author": "lilah", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (18:10)", "body": "Mari, I'd just about settle for any announcer describing any game...are football and basketball seasons over yet???"}, {"response": 178, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (22:06)", "body": "I grew up in Minnesota BEFORE the Twins and the Vikes, so am thrilled the 'Pack is Back'. Saw my first major league game in Tiger (then Briggs) Stadium because that's one of the things we always did when we visited our Detroit relatives. Great memories. .are they really going to tear that wonderful stadium down, can't believe it."}, {"response": 179, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (22:56)", "body": "Moved to collapse topics: Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (10:14) | Laura McCarthy ( LauraM ) Sorry, but I must do this. GO PATS!!!!!!! JAMBALYA YA JAMBALAYA YA.... Think of me doing a really stupid dance right now. 4 responses total."}, {"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "Good. Laura, I am happy for you. Thanks for sharing, dear. Sincerely. (But can we have a little talk about willynilly topic creation/)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (17:12)", "body": "Laura; go to the Ramble topic; we are having quite the sports dicussion over there; of course you'll have to excuse us Wisconsinites if we don't join in your cheer;))"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (17:27)", "body": "Go Pack!!!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Becks", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Football in a JA bulletin board!!! Insupportable!!!!"}, {"response": 180, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (00:43)", "body": "Yep, Meggin...Lonnie Smith remains my all-time favorite left-fielder. And Bruce one of my favorite catchers...and Jeff Treadway my favorite second-baseman. BTW, I have one of Jeffy's broken bats...something only the biggest fan would want, considering h is relative obscurity! ;) Oh, and Jeff Blauser is also a god...because he's a Californian...;)"}, {"response": 181, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (00:45)", "body": "Oh, and Laura...I support your Patriot Victory Topic... :::) Solidarity among the sportsfans!"}, {"response": 182, "author": "McBruce", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (01:59)", "body": "Cheryl and Amy- how could you forget Denny Maclean? And not a bad piano player for a jock. What I remember best about Tiger stadium was the smell of the Wonder bread factory on the way in, cruising the Lodge with the windows down. And CKLW on the AM radio."}, {"response": 183, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (02:30)", "body": "Bruce: Cheryl and Amy- how could you forget Denny Maclean? Bruce! Another Michigander has come out of the closet! ;-) I have not forgot Dennt McClain, they could not have won the '68 Series without him! But it was Lolich who won the game I was describing. ;-) I hadn't thought of the Wonder Bread factory in ye ars! Thanks for the reminder! Fresh bread--what a wonderful smell!"}, {"response": 184, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (05:13)", "body": "Nice collapse Amy :-)"}, {"response": 185, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (06:12)", "body": "] forget Denny Maclean? __ Hey Bruce. Another link. Tigers and Bob Seger. Nice combo. Denny MaClean, the million dollar arm with the 10 cent attitude. re the Lodge: kid story about that another time. Where did you guys grow up? Me, in Mt. Pleasant, but I worked in Detroit for a couple of years right out of college (Central Michigan)"}, {"response": 186, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (06:41)", "body": "We have a Tiger Wood topic in sports by the way, the sports conference here."}, {"response": 187, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (06:46)", "body": "Did I say we had a sports topic here? I believe a Pats topic would be supportablee there, my dear."}, {"response": 188, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (06:49)", "body": "I meant of course, sports *conference*. Imagine, an entire conference devoted to sports and austenites are more than welcome to elucidate on any topic there."}, {"response": 189, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (11:39)", "body": "Amy: Where did you guys grow up? A Michigan Revival Meeting, eh? ;-) I grew up in Pontiac, a blue collar factory town, about 1/2 mile from the Fischer Body plant...walked many a picket line in my youth...;-)"}, {"response": 190, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (12:28)", "body": "Grew up in Albany, New York.............but left in 73'."}, {"response": 191, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (12:41)", "body": "And for the favorite pizza person........ i found that it you use the pilsbury pizza dough it is pretty good, brush it with olive oil and heat it up first with nothing on it for about 3 to 5 minutesR 350 DEGREES then add just all fresh ingrediants......fresh tomatoes, parley, basil, oregano, thyme and ground pepper (both red and black).....Crushed red pepper is ok if you cannot find whole to grind..... then chopped onions, green and red peppers, sliced mushrooms..... then add a fresh ground italian sausage or a good hard sliced peperoni cover with a mixture of cheeses 50% shredded mozzerella and the other 50% a mixture of romano, parmasian, provalone and white chedder return to oven until cheese is melted........"}, {"response": 192, "author": "yairl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (18:55)", "body": "thanks tj but after having second thoughts about it i think i'll keep on letting dominos do the hard work. does anyone know anything about bangkok thailand i'm going to go there and i can realy use some guiding ."}, {"response": 193, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (21:20)", "body": "Kali, send me a splinter sometime! :)"}, {"response": 194, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (21:58)", "body": "You got it, Meggin! :)"}, {"response": 195, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (15:06)", "body": "Boy am I an outsider here! Never seen a game of baseball or whatever you're talking of with such eagerness.( Small chance in Sweden .) Have copied and saved those two delicious sounding pizza variations, though. And thanks Hilary for Tiger memento..."}, {"response": 196, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (15:42)", "body": "Come visit, Ann2, and we'll go to a game..."}, {"response": 197, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (00:16)", "body": "It was thirty years ago that we all met. Five very silly fourteen year old girls. Together we practiced for womanhood. Clothes, make-up, and boys. Little did we know that what really prepared us for the future was the simple act of being together. We would talk deep into the night. Eating junk food and chocolate, sipping sodas. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our cheeks. We grew up together, the five of us. Transforming from girls to young women. We ran gaily then. Each of us, one by one meeting, falling in love, and marrying our soul-mates. Those years were filled with bridal showers, weddings, baby showers, and chil d-birth. After each milestone we would gather, talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and chocolate, sipping wine. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears. Always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our heeks. We went head-strong into our thirties. Each developing a new found independence and calmness which comes when you have finally begun to feel comfortable with yourself. Our careers were established, our children growing, and all five marriages still stro ng. We had all done our jobs well. It was no problem to leave our families for short periods of time. It was then that we began our \"Enchanted April\" weekends. Off to the mountains or the ocean. Talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and choc late, sipping wine. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears. Always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our cheeks. Our thirties began to come to a close. Each time that we would meet, we would sound like a Jane Austen novel -- \"How is your mother?\" \"How is your father?\" -- this would follow with tales of illnesses and hospitals. When or how our chain calls started, I don't really remember. It was a instinctive reaction designed so that the sufferer would not have to repeat their story more than once. One would call the other, each in turn. \"One of us is hurting\" we would tell the next until we made a complete cir le. Again, we would gather. Talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and chocolate, sipping wine. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears. Always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our cheeks. One by one our parents began to leave us. We held hands and our breath and tip-toed into our forties. We now gathered most often at our parent's funerals. Although our husbands tried to comfort us, it was the five of us that we would seek. Talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and cho colate, sipping wine. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears. Always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our cheeks. Just this week another mile-stone has occurred. One of us became a widow. How can this be? Up until this moment, we all still remained with our one and only husbands. How lucky we were -- how well we choose -- how smug we were -- how fearful we are. Did we never think that this type of tragedy would happen? All along the chain call, each one said the same thing, \"I am so scared. We now must face the facts. There will be a time when one by one we will start loosing each other.\" Tomarrow we will bury her husband. After the sevices, when everyone else leaves, we will remain. Talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and chocolate, sipping wine. Speaking of our hopes, dreams, and fears. We will start out quite serious and somehow end laughing. Funny how there will still be tears enough to run down our cheeks. Thank you for letting me ramble."}, {"response": 198, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (02:03)", "body": "Oh, Candace - that is absolutely beautiful. Now where is that box of tissue! Please do share this with your five-some, too."}, {"response": 199, "author": "TJ", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "Candace..........THANKS"}, {"response": 200, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "Candace, it should really be the other way around....I thank you for letting me follow your rambling. I feel an ache in my throat and my eyes are a bit dim. This past autume my mother died and I miss her so. This life is ours to handle with care, and the way you and your friends do it together is just.... Oddly, I find it comforting that it is the same for us whoever or whereever... We must part from the one's we love. Better think of it now and then..."}, {"response": 201, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (12:22)", "body": "Candace -- what a beautiful \"ramble\" on the blessings of friends. Our thoughts are with you and your friends as you pass another milestone. (And my prayers are with your one friend who is going through this painful time.) Thank you for wanting to share this w/ us."}, {"response": 202, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "Thank you Candace for rambling and sharing so beautifully. When you think of the sadness, though, also consider the blessings of having five such good friends. It's so rare that friends can stay together through all the stages of their lives."}, {"response": 203, "author": "lilah", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (18:34)", "body": "Candace, that was moving, eloquent and beautiful. How lucky you are to have such friends to see each other through the inevitabilities of life. I lost my beloved father in August; watched my mom struggle with the transition into widowhood. That's when I saw the rituals and the resulting strength that a group of women friends give to each other, and that's when I realized I truly believe in a sisterhood. Thanks for sharing with us."}, {"response": 204, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (22:28)", "body": "Candace, my father died last week. The first person I really talked to about it was my best friend--her father died 18 months ago. We've been best buddy's since jr. high--a long time ago. Yet she still knows me better than anyone else, despite the fact that we now live miles apart. How lucky you are to have a group of friends to help support each other in time of need. No one else could make me laugh last week, but my friend Kathy could. That is what best friends are for."}, {"response": 205, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (23:33)", "body": "Everyone, I hate to break the sisterly mood created by Candace's lovely ramble, but it was recently revealed that our own Saman just got into medical school! Congratulations..."}, {"response": 206, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "Meggin, I am so sorry. Yours and Candace's story make me even more thankful my own mother is better all the time -- just learned two days ago that a heart oblation procedure done a few weeks ago had been successful even though at the time the doctors pron ounced it a failure. S'man, I am very very happy for you. I know how much you wanted this. You deserve it."}, {"response": 207, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (11:52)", "body": "\"...our own Saman just got into medical school! Congratulations... \" WOW This is so exciting - where will you do to school!!"}, {"response": 208, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "Way to go Saman!! I'm so sorry. Margaret."}, {"response": 209, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "My sympathies, Margaret, and all others who have recently lost family members or friends. It's a difficult time, I know, when good friends are invaluable. Congratulations, Saman! Does this mean we'll now have an \"ER\" topic here??"}, {"response": 210, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "Candace, that is one of the most eloquent, touching ramblings I have experienced. I have a photo in my family album of a group of women I know who match this description very closely. I miss having a similar relationship in my own life and it is touching to hear about it in anothers life. That's the photo on the left of the women I spoke, that's Ann Evans the bride, ex-mayor of Davis California who married a delightful Englishman named David. They are still living in Davis, CA as far as a I know. These women all grew up together. I'm very glad our week long task to put out the new Webstalker has been completed and the product is now being shipped out to reviewers and beta testers. This is the first free moment I've had in well over a week. I'm hoping to get together with the Unix team and the folks who inhabit this community today and tomorrow before I go back to the intense development effort I'm involved in right now. I'm sitting in my office/master bedroom in Cedar Creek looking out over the woods and pastures, feeling good. I've got the Wide World of Sports Ice Skating on the tube, this is one of the most esthetic and relaxing sports to watch. (more about this in a future ice skating topic in the sports conference). Ekaterina Gordeeva is skating now, what a fine skater."}, {"response": 211, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (17:24)", "body": "Margaret, please accept my sympathy. ] it was recently revealed that our own Saman just got into medical school! That's great Saman, will you be starting this year? You must be really busy as well as please. I hope you'll still be able to join us occaisionally if y ou have to relocate. Amy, I'm really glad to hear your mother is improving."}, {"response": 212, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (17:53)", "body": "Happy birthday Kathleen Elder!"}, {"response": 213, "author": "lilah", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "Margaret, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family."}, {"response": 214, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (19:45)", "body": "Margaret - I am very sorry you lost your father. Hope you and the rest of your family ware getting through this."}, {"response": 215, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (21:17)", "body": "Thank you to everyone for the responses to my essay. In truth, what I really thank you for is this wonderful forum and all my wonderful cyber friends. This was truly the best therapy. To Margaret -- I am so sorry for your loss. I lost my own father five years ago. I know exactly what you feel. Peace be with you all."}, {"response": 216, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (21:26)", "body": "Thanks to all for the expressions of sympathy. You have touched my heart."}, {"response": 217, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (08:22)", "body": "Margaret, otan osaa, as they say here in Finland. It could roughly be translated as \"I take a piece of your sorrow and carry it with me\", and means that I am very, very sorry about your father. Keep on smiling, though. Despite many things the world still is a beautiful place."}, {"response": 218, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (09:21)", "body": "otan osaa __ That is lovely Mixu"}, {"response": 219, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:31)", "body": "Terry, figure skating ranks right along with P&P on my list of things I really enjoy. Saturday the 'Stars on Ice' were in town and a group of 8 of us went to dinner and the show. The evening flew by and it is difficult to pick out the best, but Ecaterina's numbers were very special. Torvil and Dean were an awesome presence in the show. Hope some of the other contributors to this board have the opportunity to see this wonderful production. And thanks to you Terry for providing this great home for all f us."}, {"response": 220, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "Terry, figure skating ranks right along with P&P on my list of things I really enjoy. Saturday the 'Stars on Ice' were in town and a group of 8 of us went to dinner and the show. The evening flew by and it is difficult to pick out the best, but Ecaterina's numbers were very special. Torvil and Dean were an awesome presence in the show. Hope some of the other contributors to this board have the opportunity to see this wonderful production. And thanks to you Terry for providing this great home for all f us."}, {"response": 221, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "Oops, sorry for the extra post."}, {"response": 222, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (21:52)", "body": "I would kill (well almost) to see Torvil and Dean in person!"}, {"response": 223, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "Candace, let me tell you how very deeply touched I was by your \"ramble\", frienship, family and the act of sharing is at the core of the soul. Margaret, accept these thoughts of peace. Loosing someone close, whether one who's life as been a long fulfilled road or, has we experienced last week, loosing a little one who had so much to experience, is never easy. Let us rejoyce in the happiness of their newfound home/salvation. Amy, all my wishes of health for your mother."}, {"response": 224, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (08:03)", "body": "Amy, I am glad you liked the expression. I think the reason why we have \"otan osaa\" is because if we said \"Olen pahoillani\" (meaning \"I am sorry\") it would mean that I did the thing I am sorry for. Anyway, I like \"otan osaa\" myself. It even sounds nice. I just happen to love Finnish, and feel myself very fortunate that I have it as a 1st language."}, {"response": 225, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (12:25)", "body": "Mixu, I greatlly appreciate the kind sentiment expressed by \"otan osaa\". All of the words of sympathy expressed for me and my family have meant more to me than I could ever have believed possible. You all don't know me and you didn't know my father, yet so many of you have made such an effort to let me know that you care. I am overwhelmed by all of this. Johanne, you write of losing a little one. How terrible. My father was old and sick and in pain and I take a great deal of comfort in the thought that he is in a better place, having lived a full life with many joys. Johanne, my heart aches for you."}, {"response": 226, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (16:16)", "body": "Just to make things clear, I personnaly did not loose my child this past week, heaven forbid, I would'nt be able to be here at all, wondering if I would have any sanity left in such a short time. But my dear friend did loose her very soon expected baby and having lost one myself a couple of years ago, it stirred up memories. So close to the miracle of life but taken away a nano-second before. No choice but to confort ourselves with beliefs of a better place for them and the faith in a destiny much bigger than our mere comprehension may aloud. Thanks."}, {"response": 227, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (16:24)", "body": "Most people have no idea how much of a loss a miscarriage can be -- at any stage."}, {"response": 228, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "Most people also do not realise that 25-33% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. With such I high number, it should be more widely known."}, {"response": 229, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "AN ANNOUNCEMENT I have, this day, taken down all my Christmas decorations!!! *Applause* (Thank you, thank you very much! Now I just have to get it carried out to the garage!)"}, {"response": 230, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (16:23)", "body": "That is very good ,Cheryl . I have still the tree as it is so fresh and smells so good; I have not had the heart to throw it away. But I took away the last x-mas cloth the other day and have only kept one electric candlestick in the kitchen-window to brighten our dark and early mornings in January."}, {"response": 231, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (23:56)", "body": "Cheryl & Ann2 -- with both of your messages blinking at the same speed, I began to feel that Christmas was still here! To any interested viewers of CF movies: I recently loaned my copy of \"Dutch Girls\" to Mari. If you are interested in viewing it, let me know via email (kelder@miworld.net for home or k_elder@fre.fsu.umd.edu for work). I can ask Mari to send it to you when she has finished watching it. As long as I get it back sometime, I would be happy to share."}, {"response": 232, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (02:36)", "body": "ANTI-SUPER BOWL PARTY Grace and I were talking at Pemberley today, bemoaning a full day of the Football Fan's High Holy Day, when we decided that we should hold our own party at Pemberley! The madness, I mean game begins at 6pm EST, but the Pregame crap, I mean festivities start hours and hours before that. So the official party shall begin at 4pm EST, earlier if you cannot stand anymore of John Madden! ;-) Y'all come!"}, {"response": 233, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:13)", "body": "Who in your opinion was worse Dandy Don,Howard or John Madden?"}, {"response": 234, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:19)", "body": "Wow, Super Sunday is here. And we have cheeseheads and anti-Superbowl partyin'. Are you going to have your own anti-Superbowl half time show with entertainment?"}, {"response": 235, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:19)", "body": "If you are not watching but only hearing the noise, Madden's yelling is really grating. But! I don't have a football husband anymore. Yay!!!!!!!!"}, {"response": 236, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:20)", "body": "Hey, Terry, we posted at the same time. Are you a football fan? If you have time, would you look in deeper?"}, {"response": 237, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:21)", "body": "Madden's comments on the web are naive and comical. \"How do you dot com something?\""}, {"response": 238, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:22)", "body": "Amy throws a pass and Terry goes deep..."}, {"response": 239, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (09:32)", "body": "What?"}, {"response": 240, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "Missed signal. Let's try that play again."}, {"response": 241, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (16:29)", "body": "Cheryl, I am here. Where are you?? Your thoughts (in chat yesterday)about Darcy as a quarterback have sparked my interest in the game, football...that is. But remember...if you get to be the team masseuse, I get to do the locker room interviews, up close and oh so personal. One more thing.....about those whirlpool tubs for the athletes...are you sure they accommodate two comfortably???"}, {"response": 242, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (16:32)", "body": "Cheryl, I am here. Where are you?? Your thoughts (in chat yesterday)about Darcy as a quarterback have sparked my interest in the game, football...that is. But remember...if you get to be the team masseuse, I get to do the locker room interviews, up close and oh so personal. One more thing.....about those whirlpool tubs for the athletes...are you sure they accommodate two comfortably???"}, {"response": 243, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (18:00)", "body": "Grace: One more thing.....about those whirlpool tubs for the athletes...are you sure they accommodate two comfortably??? Some things are worth a little discomfort! ;-) (and I'm at Pemberley now...where are you, dearie?)"}, {"response": 244, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (01:20)", "body": "Sorry, I missed that party,Cheryl and Grace. But from what I hear it was not totally without sports, eyh eyh, nudge,wink?"}, {"response": 245, "author": "Grace", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (09:03)", "body": "Ann, Mostly we made sport of the Neanderthals sitting in front of the tube whooping and hollering over such a stupid game. You'll be pleased to know that after much discussion, we also did reach some consensus about those Lycra pants the gentlemen wear on the gridiron. Should have been there!"}, {"response": 246, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (00:37)", "body": "Congratulations, Kali! On receiving her first law school acceptance letter But we never had any doubt."}, {"response": 247, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (01:04)", "body": "Thank you, Amy dearest, for your encouragement and optimism. You're great! :)"}, {"response": 248, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (01:23)", "body": "Brava Kali"}, {"response": 249, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:05)", "body": "tHip Hip Hooray! (Which school was it?)"}, {"response": 250, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:06)", "body": "Hip Hip Hooray! (Which school was it?)"}, {"response": 251, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:06)", "body": "Hey! I did not post that twice - though it does bear repeating. ;-)"}, {"response": 252, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:20)", "body": "I have only one thing to say to you, my dearest niece... YAHOOOOOO!!!!"}, {"response": 253, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:48)", "body": "THanks guys! It was Georgetown, Joan...:)"}, {"response": 254, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (07:19)", "body": "But, of course, I'm not at all surprised. Congratulations daughter."}, {"response": 255, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (12:59)", "body": "Was it not Mr Bingley who found it amazing that young ladies can have patience to be so very accomplished?! And in our midst are several very accomplished, who also posess a certain something in their air, their adress and expressions. They study law, go to medical school and I know not what! Good luck, Kali! (Just saw you in Best of chat!)And Saman too!"}, {"response": 256, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "Congrats, Kali -- and may you receive many more happy responses! I hope you have a large field of choices (although Georgetown is certainly not too shabby)."}, {"response": 257, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (13:15)", "body": "Kali, Saman; go to it, girls!"}, {"response": 258, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "Isn't this great? We are all so proud, like a bunch of mother hens. It is sweet."}, {"response": 259, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (15:37)", "body": "CONGRATULATIONS Kali -- Georgetown is really great. Starting with the cream of the crop!! Congratulations also to Saman. What a bright bunch we have here - nice to know the next generation is in good hands!!;-)"}, {"response": 260, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (16:13)", "body": "Georgetown!! Great. congratulations, Kali"}, {"response": 261, "author": "alix", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "Congrats, Kali! I'm a UGA person, myself, but Georgetown is an awsome school. Just one question, what is a Hoya, exactly? I've heard so many things from people who go to Harrison High School as to what it is, but those Harrison people usually have problems with that whole collective reasoning/agreement thing! Sorry to those that I've offended, but at least McEachern can agree on their mascot. One more question, has anyone noticed that allmost all Latin teachers are either nutty absent minded professor types, or grandmothers-from-hell? Just a thought."}, {"response": 262, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (18:59)", "body": "Latin teachers? Our Latin teacher in high school was a messy genius type. Here at Cal, Professor Knapp is very normal. He's married, with kids, and very nice. so, you're a Dawg (woof woof woof!), Laura? Oh...and a hoya is actually a retaining wall (selected by students long, long, ago...). It has nothing to do with the bulldog that the athletic department took on as a mascot. --- Thank you for your interest and encouragement, guys...you're great!!!"}, {"response": 263, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "A hoya is a certain way of throwing a frisbee: Hold the frisbee with your first and second fingers on the inside with the second finger along the inside of the rim, place your thumb on the top of the frisbee, then hold the frisbee in a vertical position (perpendicular to the ground) over your shoulder, then in a motion similar to a baseball throw throw the frisbee with strength and with a flick of the wrist high into the air. The frisbee will then invert and float upside-down back to the earth--that is a oya!"}, {"response": 264, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "A hoya is an ornamental plant that grows well in hanging baskets and has tiny star-shaped flowers."}, {"response": 265, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:55)", "body": "Kali, I haven't been on here long, but want to say Congrats! Georgetown is pretty cool . . . and you must be pretty smart! But then we already knew that. Enjoyed seeing your picture."}, {"response": 266, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:15)", "body": "Thank you, Susan! Glad you liked the pic. Ann, Joan, I had no idea that a \"hoya\" was so many things! The Hoya Laura was refering to is the official Georgetown \"mascot\"...which is not a dog, but a retaining wall. I know not why that was chosen by early Georgetown students."}, {"response": 267, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (00:08)", "body": "WOW OF THE DAY! Henry's Jane Austen Info site was featured Monday on CNN Interactive: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9701/27/on.the.net/austen/ You know what I think is neat? That sometimes, once in a while, good content is discovered and recognized on its own merit. Nice job, Henry. You deserve the recognition."}, {"response": 268, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (03:29)", "body": "Woo-hoo, H..."}, {"response": 269, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (07:09)", "body": "That CNN write up is \"mah-ve-lous\" !!! Good work HC -- who's your publicist? ; )"}, {"response": 270, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "Congratulations Kali.......i did not notice but were you one of the non fans for football.......(I guess i could read back a bit and find out).........but to many of us out here Georgetown is to Basketball what Notre Dame is to Football.....hope you like b-ball........not just the fact they are two great catholic colleges......... Also has anyone tried to make either of the pizza's yet...........been curious to find out if you liked it"}, {"response": 271, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "Cool, HC! ;-)"}, {"response": 272, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "THank you, TJ...I like football alright, i guess...basketball even less...but then again, I don't go to school for the athletic departments! ;)"}, {"response": 273, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "Congratulations! HC. That's great publicity and a really nice write-up. IMHO You deserve all the accolades you can accumulate for your pages!"}, {"response": 274, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (16:52)", "body": "Congratulations! HC. That's great publicity and a really nice write-up. IMHO You deserve all the accolades you can accumulate for your pages!"}, {"response": 275, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Inko is obviously very excited! :)"}, {"response": 276, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (03:57)", "body": "Congratulations , Kali! (This is the 1st time I use blink... Take a deep breath and embrace yourself, because you deserve it (hug yourself for me, too!). Save the strength to be used later. I'll try to convince a tonttu (Finnish elf, a guardian spirit of places etc.) to follow you... If you think something invisible is living at your flat, just \"forget\" some food on the table - the tonttu loves it!"}, {"response": 277, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (08:53)", "body": "Hip Hip Hourra Henri If not for your webpages I probably would'nt be here, million thanks and **smoosh**"}, {"response": 278, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:07)", "body": "Johanne: million thanks and **smoosh** Johanne dear, is this the French equivelent of a *samooch*? ;-)"}, {"response": 279, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:11)", "body": "] Johanne: million thanks and **smoosh** Johanne dear, is this the French equivelent of a *samooch*? ;-) __ Wouldn't that be \"Mmmwwwa!\""}, {"response": 280, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (10:15)", "body": "If so, I think it should be spelled \"smouche\""}, {"response": 281, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "Okay, then I guess my \"Mmmwwwa\" would have to be MMMMMMMMoi!"}, {"response": 282, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:48)", "body": "Mmouah, Mmouah, Mmouah Amy, I like it very much. Mmouah Henri, and when kissed dearest, something else than the spelling should occupy your thoughts ;) Kissing Fest"}, {"response": 283, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:51)", "body": "Well, I think kissing is a fine topic for this place. I'd not be ashamed to have either Ayelet's mom or mine read about it. We start moving the schwinging today."}, {"response": 284, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (13:06)", "body": "We're moving the Schwinging?"}, {"response": 285, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (02:08)", "body": "I'm laughing my a** off as I type!"}, {"response": 286, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (21:31)", "body": "Kali -- A big Congrats!! Oh the places you'll go!!!"}, {"response": 287, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (03:43)", "body": "Thank you, dear Candace and Mixu..."}, {"response": 288, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "What a find :"}, {"response": 289, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "Congratulations, Kali"}, {"response": 290, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (11:39)", "body": "Congratulations to HC on Great CNN presentation ! By the way you must have been doing lots of work on that site this autumn if I remember correctly. I visited and used bibliographies before I found old P&P2 board, in September. Were the colours there then?. Looks nice and inviting."}, {"response": 291, "author": "del", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (17:15)", "body": "Relationship No ship, please. Not now. I haven't a captain nor a first mate \ufffd never mind a crew\ufffd It would take all my courage to try a relation inner tube. How about a relation floatie? Frozen margaritas in the pool some sultry summer night? Relation = Relative = Relativity = Energy = ME scared. Time flies when I'm fleeing fun. Marybeth Gradziel June 19, 1995 Reproduction We women need not be alone for long. We can grow friends. Find the right seed. Care for the sprout. and Enjoy the fruit of our labor. Marybeth Gradziel August 22, 1995 Dream Thought I understood it all one night. How men looking for women get mixed up, and flit from one to another \ufffd always looking for more. If only they knew\ufffd Inside every woman is an infinite number of other women just waiting for true love, trust and acceptance, to come out and love the man in an infinite number of womanly ways. Marybeth Gradziel August 24, 1995"}, {"response": 292, "author": "mich", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (16:26)", "body": "Very nice Doug,thanks for sharing"}, {"response": 293, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (19:51)", "body": "OJ verdict is in, not read. I have this terrible feeling something awful is going to happen."}, {"response": 294, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "I wish the media would stop making such a big deal of this. They are now saying that they will delay the President's state of the union address to wait for the reading of the verdict. Where are our priorities, for heaven sake???"}, {"response": 295, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:24)", "body": "I agree, Joan too. I was going to shut off the tv when I heard that there was this conflict about what to cover! (However, the snow/ice storm here cut off the cable before I could get to the remote. :-)) It is delightful to come to this civilized oasis, but I had intended to pay some attention to the President's address. Oh well, maybe I'll be a more informed citizen tomorrow."}, {"response": 296, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:25)", "body": "At least ABC is going ahead with the President's address as planned. I plan to compliment them excessively!"}, {"response": 297, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:26)", "body": "This is really scarry"}, {"response": 298, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "This is really scarry but on the other hand there's a lot of parodies outthere"}, {"response": 299, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:39)", "body": "My TV is broken, so I'm listening over NPR -- they haven't broken into the speech to announce the OJ verdict yet ;-)"}, {"response": 300, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:41)", "body": "Last message outdated -- State of Union solid but unmemorable... OJ verdict: GUILTY!!"}, {"response": 301, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:45)", "body": "The ultimate victory! ABC showed the President's entire speech - and then was still able to tune in to the trial just in time to get the verdict live . HA HA HA! Take that CBS and NBC!"}, {"response": 302, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:49)", "body": "I'm speechless....."}, {"response": 303, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:15)", "body": "I stayed on ABC all evening, and never realized that CBS and NBC were not on the President's speech. My feelings about the evening - what else is new???"}, {"response": 304, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:15)", "body": "I stayed on ABC all evening, and never realized that CBS and NBC were not on the President's speech. My feelings about the evening - what else is new??? Sorry, I'm feeling cynical!!;-)"}, {"response": 305, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "I'm speechless....."}, {"response": 306, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (00:21)", "body": "Clinton has an excellent sense of timing. He finished exactly as the verdict came in. Now that's a great politician!"}, {"response": 307, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (03:56)", "body": "He's a slick one, he is...;)"}, {"response": 308, "author": "Adi", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:22)", "body": "I'm in such a terrible mood, I had to share it with you: yesterday 73 Israeli soldiers were killed when 2 helicopters collided. Seventy-three young men! the majority of them were just twenty years old. they were just born and now they are dead... I know at least 2 of them (there are still 20 more names not published), and the feeling is awful. If they were killed because of the war in Lebanon - I could at least understand it, but they died because of a stupid mistake, and it was a horrible death (there was ammunition on the helicopters, and it caused fire and explosions when it crashed on the ground). everyone here are so sad. almost everyone knew someone that died. I wish things like that will never happen again to anyone in any place."}, {"response": 309, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "That's awful, Adi. Even if they had died in actual battle, would it have been worth it? I doubt it. Most wars today are such ego-vehicles that I have trouble justifying them. And I've always considered myself a hawk."}, {"response": 310, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "Deepest sympathy, Adi. It is always bad whenever young people have to die, but in such a horrible crash it seems even worse. Also agree with Kali, death in battle or in a war would not have made it worth it--but then I'm a dove!! I hate all wars and can see no logical reasons for them."}, {"response": 311, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (16:18)", "body": "Adi, I'm terribly sorry. If the helicopters were as explosive as you say, it's likely that they at least died instantly. I hope that's some comfort."}, {"response": 312, "author": "Adi", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (16:42)", "body": "Kali, of course it's not worth it, those lives are so precious. those boys should not die, period. but sometimes you just can't help it - our men soldiers don't \"play\" in war, they are defending our northern border from terrorist attacks and from missiles. so it's understandable to die while you are defending your love ones and practically giving them life. I can assure you that in this case no ego is involved. what's killing me is that those soldiers were the top of the top of the youth in Israel: they were fighters in their way to their missions in Lebanon. they weren't just \"Jobnicks\" [=this is the name to describe the men soldiers who do office jobs like clerks]. they were already risking their life in their jobs protecting the rest of us, so they should have a better destiny than they had..."}, {"response": 313, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (18:22)", "body": "Adi, I can't even begin to imagine how you must feel. But I am so sorry."}, {"response": 314, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (21:29)", "body": "Adi - I am so sorry. You are bringing the 'other side of the world' closer to all of us."}, {"response": 315, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (10:49)", "body": "Let me had my voice to Inko, Amy and all us in share this pain. We're thinking of you and all who is hurting."}, {"response": 316, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:26)", "body": "Let me add my sorrow, Adi. Life can be so unfair--the Israeli people have suffered so long; the endless war and persecution. So many Israeli youth gone in past mideast wars. Now, even technology revolts against them. And Israel the only real democratic state in the mideast. The older I get, the more I think the universe was somehow wrongly put together."}, {"response": 317, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "Too many have Carl, Israely and not, whether the're made knowns to us or kept in the back of the medias priorities. Too many innocent victims, especially children."}, {"response": 318, "author": "Adi", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (17:50)", "body": "Thank you all for your kind words. Carl, I never thought about it like that but I guess you're right: the universe was wrongly put together. God probably made a mistake when he placed Israel in the middle east. this was another horrible day. most of the funerals took place today. On the radio and T.V there were just quiet and sad songs, and between them - stories about the lives of all the dead soldiers, talks with their families and friends, talks with politicians and basically anything that could make you cry endlessly. I can't take it anymore. I wish this week will be over already."}, {"response": 319, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "I just had to stop by before I head to bed to recommend a show I just saw. If \"Riverdance - The Show\" comes to your town, RUN to get tickets! I don't think I've ever had two hours in the theatre pass so fast! I'm not even sure how to explain it to you...its main focus is traditional Irish dance, but there's Russian, Spanish, and American dances as well. The energy level is just phenomenal. Also, in the program there was an ad for \"Tap Dogs\" which will be in town in a couple of weeks. Am I right in remembering that this show was highly recommended here?"}, {"response": 320, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (04:03)", "body": "] \"Tap Dogs\" ... was highly recommended here? mmmmnnnnhhhhh! all male, more 'modern' than Riverdance (at least the shows I saw) but definitely worth a look..."}, {"response": 321, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (09:00)", "body": "Kathleen, I have seen these ads for \"Riverdance\" but I think it is to purchase the video. What area are you in? I don't think they are coming here."}, {"response": 322, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (15:56)", "body": "MY CAR JUST GOT STOLEN!!!!!"}, {"response": 323, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "So sorry Ann, hope nothing too valuable in it !"}, {"response": 324, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "Oh, Ann, I'm sorry."}, {"response": 325, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "That terrible. I'm so sorry Ann."}, {"response": 326, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (16:19)", "body": "That's awful, Ann. What a horrible annoyance x 50 plus disgust and inconvenience and I can't even think what else. Yuck."}, {"response": 327, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (16:28)", "body": "Oh, Ann, how awful. And it makes you feel so angry, helpless, violated -- a truly rotten experience. Were you at work or home when it happened? I hope you are OK."}, {"response": 328, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (17:25)", "body": "Ann, so very aggravating! Ok in body, if not spirit, I hope."}, {"response": 329, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (17:28)", "body": "Ann - That's terrible! Its one of those things that's hard to grasp - you know where you parked it and it takes a minute to register that it's really not there. Donna - I'm in the Detroit area. I don't know where its headed next, but hopefully it will end up near you soon. Anna - I think I'm going to check it out (Tap Dogs). :)"}, {"response": 330, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:03)", "body": "My car was parked in the lot in front of my apartment building and was probably stolen sometime last night. The cops were hopeful that they would be able to find it, but I doubt it. This is actually the second car that I've had stolen. The first one was stolen from my brother at gunpoint. The cops eventually recovered that one and the thief got 4 years in jail. Now I've lost another one. It is a pain in the neck to be carless. At least the weather won't be too bad for the next few days, so walking won't b too bad. Thanks for your messages."}, {"response": 331, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:39)", "body": "That's really bad news Ann. I hope you were covered and you get some new wheels soon. What kind of car was it?"}, {"response": 332, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (19:50)", "body": "1989 Jeep Cherokee Limited Edition with tinted windows and leather seats! I inherited it from my parents when they bought a Land Rover. It is a very popular car among thieves, but is getting on in years. I don't think there is any chance that I will be able to replace it with a comperable vehicle."}, {"response": 333, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (20:14)", "body": "Very sad indeed Ann. I do hope you get it back."}, {"response": 334, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "Ann, what a bummer!"}, {"response": 335, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (22:20)", "body": "Ann, I'm somewhat new here -- where do you live? I'm so sorry to hear about your rig; Jeep Cherokees are cool. You have a good attitude about it, though. Hang in there and keep your chin up."}, {"response": 336, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (22:37)", "body": "I live in Minneapolis, not the best place to be carless in the middle of winter. I figure that there is nothing I can do about it. It's just going to be a pain in the butt to get it replaced!"}, {"response": 337, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (23:14)", "body": "I lived and worked in Mpls without a car for about a year. I worked as a city planner till I left there in a schoolbus that I recycled into an \"rv\". Bought it from the Owatonna School district. But that was then. In today's world, getting around in a good car is more of a necessity. I really liked the town, I met some very good people there."}, {"response": 338, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (00:07)", "body": "Will be sending good thoughts your way, Ann. Keep thinking positive. Hope this next week brings better things."}, {"response": 339, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (03:44)", "body": "Suck."}, {"response": 340, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (14:05)", "body": "Good news : THEY FOUND MY CAR!!! I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know how much damage was done. I know they broke a window and had to damage the ignition to start it. Thanks to everybody for your support, I'm sure it showed up so quickly because I had so many people thinking about it across the world. Thanks to all!"}, {"response": 341, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (14:06)", "body": "I didn't realise that yapp takes the word news and makes it into a link!!!"}, {"response": 342, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "Ann, that's terrific. I hope you can get your car fixed and functional really soon. Glad you didn't have to wait too long to find out about it, either."}, {"response": 343, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "Ann, it's wonderful!!! You did get lots of instant support, and I'm sure it helped."}, {"response": 344, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:38)", "body": "Hope everything works out, Ann!"}, {"response": 345, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:45)", "body": "Gee, maybe we should start charging -- strangers, that is -- for this psychic service. Woman power. Be afraid. (Hil, did you start that \"be very afraid\" stuff?\") Very glad to hear it, Ann."}, {"response": 346, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (19:27)", "body": "Ann, So glad they found your car. Hope it'll be driveable soon!! There is a terrific review of P&P2 in today's NY Times by Christoper Lehmann-Haupt, a book reviewer. He compares P&P2 to the book and likes it very well indeed, better than any other Austen adaptation. Link is: http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/arts/tv-austen-review.html"}, {"response": 347, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (19:37)", "body": "That is an increadible review!! (By the way, you probably have to register at the NYTimes site before you can view the stories there. I would heartily recommend that you do. The NYTimes site is one of the best newspapers on the web and includes most, if not all, of the printed paper (including the crossword puzzle!!))"}, {"response": 348, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (20:06)", "body": "I have sent the NYTimes a E-letter in response to this article. I thought I would share it with all of you: Dear Sir or Madam, Your reporter, Christopher Lehmann-Haupt, is not the first to fall in love with the BBC/A&E production of Pride and Prejudice. This production in particular, and Jane Austen in general, has a large and loyal following on the internet. There are several sites which have been founded specifically for the purpose of discussing this production, and which have subsequently been broadened to include all of the works of Jane Austen. Other sites have been established solely to provide information and access to Au ten's works on the internet. Some of the URL's are as follows: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janeinfo.html http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/all/new (requires registration) http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wwwboard/ppbb.html It is suprising to me that she, of all authors, has such a strong following in cyberspace. I am continually amazed by the wide variety of Jane Austen information available on the internet, as well as the variety of people interested in her work. The virtual community which has been created around an interest in Jane Austen includes men and women, it includes people from the age of nine to well over sixty, and spans several continents and languages. It represents the best of what the internet can be by bringing together so many people in so many different walks of life, races, and cultures. We have come together and have indeed formed a community. We cry together when one of us suffers from a loss of a loved one, and we celebrate when one of us pa ses a milestone in life. We support eachother, even though few of us have ever met or even know what the others look like. We are grateful to Miss Austen for giving us the reason come together, and are grateful to the BBC/A&E production for introducing so many of us to her work. I am glad that your paper has recognised this wonderful production, which has brought so many people to enjoy Pride and Prejudice and Jane Austen, and which has brought so many of us together in cyberspace. Thank you, Ann Elizabeth Haker haker001@tc.umn.edu"}, {"response": 349, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "As Lizzie would say \"Beautiful\"."}, {"response": 350, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (22:03)", "body": "Great news Ann. Whewwww! * slaps Ann a high five *"}, {"response": 351, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (22:27)", "body": "Ann, what are we going to talk about next? Do keep us posted regarding your now recovered vehicle."}, {"response": 352, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (22:53)", "body": "Did someone save the review -- it's expired from the NY Times site..."}, {"response": 353, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:00)", "body": "Yes, it did expire. I did a search and found an old review about JA which listed your site HC."}, {"response": 354, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:00)", "body": "February 8, 1997 CRITIC'S NOTEBOOK / By CHRISTOPHER LEHMANN-HAUPT 'Pride and Prejudice': A Great Movie of a Great Book Plenty of bad movies have been made of good books, and a fair number of good movies have come from bad books. But a great movie of a great book? Speaking from a book reviewer's vantage point, I nominate Jane Austen's \"Pride and Prejudice,\" a co-production of the BBC and A&E, which is being rebroadcast by A&E in two parts, on Saturday and Sunday. I had missed the production the first time around, but when a friend lent me the tapes, I was instantly and completely caught up by the Bennet family and the thwarted romances of the two eldest daughters, Jane and Elizabeth. I did not get free until I had watched the entire five-hour production three or four times. The Bennets' world seemed more real than mine. I found myself repeating the memorable lines. I caught myself humming the music. As with a really good book, I discovered more and more to enjoy as I grew familiar with the main action and could concentrate on the smallest of details: for example, the way you can still overhear Miss Caroline Bingley (played with grand imperiousness by Anna Chancellor) after the camera has shifted away from the reception line at the Netherfield ball. But best of all was the way the film spurred me to read the book again after 40 years and to re-experience as literature the wayward romances of Jane and Elizabeth Bennet with Charles Bingley and Fitzwilliam Darcy. Surprisingly, the book proved somewhat disappointing at first. As the friend who lent me the tapes rightly put it when I asked him how the book compared with the film, \"It makes you fear for literature.\" \"Oh! Shocking!\" as Miss Bingley would say. To admit that the literalness of film might surpass the stimulus to the imagination of Austen's language. \"Abominable!\" But this was my experience at first. And it is not simply to be explained by the inherent vividness of film as a medium or by the masterly performances of Jennifer Ehle as Elizabeth, Colin Firth as Darcy, David Bamber as Collins, Crispin Bohham-Carter as Charles Bingley, Adrian Lukis as Lt. George Wickham and Barbara Leigh-Hunt as Lady Catherine. Other films of Austen's novels I happen to have seen don't come near to offering the pleasures of this production. One need hardly consider the 1940 Hollywood movie directed by Robert Leonard, with its mangled script (by Aldous Huxley yet!) draining the story of all dramatic tension, its miscasting of a too-old Greer Garson as Elizabeth and its simpering performance by Laurence Olivier as Darcy. Both the \"Emma\" starring Gwyneth Paltrow and a forthcoming BBC/A&E co-production of the novel with Kate Beckinsale (to be shown on A&E on Feb. 16) are entertaining enough but seem thin compared with Austen on paper. While Emma Thompson's \"Sense and Sensibility\" has much to recommend it, it suffers considerably from the lack of the novel's ironic narrative voice, which mercifully distances the reader from the excesses of its two leading characters. And \"Persuasion,\" while the best of the feature-length adaptations of Austen, is so brilliantly cinematic that one almost misses Austen's narrative voice. Moreover, it is not nearly as faithful to the original as the film of \"Pride and Prejudice\" is, and one has to have read the novel to understand certain subplots that are barely touched upon in the movie. (I have not seen the 1985 BBC production of \"Pride and Prejudice,\" directed by Cyril Coke, or the movie \"Clueless.\") In \"Pride and Prejudice,\" an early work of Austen's (at least in its original form, completed in 1797 and titled \"First Impressions\"), little distance exists between the narrator and the viewpoint of the leading characters. In fact, the narrator's outlook is close to that of Elizabeth, who, except for the prejudice that prevents her from seeing the truth about the deceptively charming Wickham and the too-proud Darcy, is one of the most liberated women in all of literature, especially impressive considering the narrowness of the society she lives in. So \"Pride and Prejudice\" translates easily onto the screen. True, the initial hostility between Elizabeth and Darcy is more deeply and subtly developed in the book. And we understand more clearly the extent to which Mr. and Mrs. Bennet are alienated as husband and wife. But consider how the film improves on the book. Take, for instance, the introduction of Collins, the cousin of the Bennets who is to inherit their estate. In the book, Bennet reads aloud the letter to him from Collins detailing how he wishes to \"heal the breach\" that subsists \"between yourself and my late honored father\" and how he plans to visit the Bennets. The family then reacts to the letter, noting the pompousness of its style. A few paragraphs later, the text announces: \"Mr. Collins was punctual to his time, and was received with great politeness by the whole family.\" In the film, Bennet starts reading the letter, but Collins' voice"}, {"response": 355, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:41)", "body": "Amy, thanks for sharing ... but we already knew P&P2 was addicting and very difficult to improve upon. This just proves the point. (Although I don't necessarily agree with his opinions regarding other adaptations)."}, {"response": 356, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "Sounds like Christopher needs to be sent our URL so he may continue to wallow with the rest of us! ;-)"}, {"response": 357, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "Ann, thanks so much for e-mailing the N.Y. Times. I think it's great that they know their article is appreciated and that there is a bunch of us out in cyberspace who feel the same way their reviewer does! And thanks, Amy, for getting the article here. I wasn't sure how to do that. After all, that was my first link ever!! I'm learning, but ever so slowly!! BTW, I watched A&E tonight but I was disappointed--I really missed all the extra scenes I have on my tapes, and I hate being interrupted by commercials all the time! But it allowed me to get some work done and listen to it in the background!"}, {"response": 358, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (00:28)", "body": "Inko: BTW, I watched A&E tonight but I was disappointed--I really missed all the extra scenes I have on my tapes, and I hate being interrupted by commercials all the time! But it allowed me to get some work done and listen to it in the background! YES Inko! Me too! In fact I only watched the last 15 minutes...the proposal scene...ooh baby, lots of heat in that room! ;-)"}, {"response": 359, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (17:54)", "body": "Susan: but we already knew P&P2 was addicting and very difficult to improve upon. This just proves the point. Yes, Susan, but what delighted me about the article was that a big cheese like Lehmann-Haupt, who as regular book critic for the New York Times holds a high position in literary circles, would admit in public to being as obsessed with a t.v. adaptation as an ordinary mortal! P&P2 conquers ALL!"}, {"response": 360, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (18:05)", "body": "Ann - I am making my way into this conversation late - like Mr. Woodhouse. I am glad they found your car - please let us know more as you get it back and back into working order. Thanks for the letter and the article."}, {"response": 361, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "I have just been reading back, having not visited for a while. Adi, I wish I knew some way of comforting you. I hope as time moves on you will feel better. Amy (#345),not me, I think?????....I don't think I'm that scary!"}, {"response": 362, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (21:25)", "body": "I guess this topic got kicked out of Austen!"}, {"response": 363, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (06:36)", "body": "Ramblings, everyone! I have a terrible flu, am low on cash, and on a tight schedule. And yes, I almost forgot: I'm also turning 27 on Thursday! I'm beginning to feel old... On the other hand, it's Valentine on Friday, so: Happy Valentine! Thank you for letting this off my mind. I feel better already. I'll see you next week!"}, {"response": 364, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (14:08)", "body": "beginning to feel old??????????? old is just a state of mind....take it from someone who is about to celebrate the 21st anniversary of his 21st birthday........."}, {"response": 365, "author": "fuzz", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "I have just browsed down through the responses, all 364 of them and find them to be interesting. I thought this would be more of a political discussion than I have found, but am certainly glad for the camaradery."}, {"response": 366, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (21:50)", "body": "Welcome Don! Hope you keep checking back in with us."}, {"response": 367, "author": "fuzz", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "Thanks for the welcome. Where does peoples interest lie? I would be interested in people that have ideas that would lead to organizing the State Univ. of New York (SUNY) students into a voting block, or at least a political voice with a little muscle. I think it is a damn shame what the SUNY Board of Trustees are trying to do to the state system."}, {"response": 368, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (03:22)", "body": "Open a topic in politics, the conference."}, {"response": 369, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Tue, Apr  8, 1997 (12:53)", "body": "You guys are very interesting but I'm not sure how I fit in since I'm going to go out on a limb here and actually say I'm not a huge Austen fan--I like what I've seen but I guess it didn't hit me the way it hit you all (so what am I doing here? long story). But you welcome even lukewarm fans, eh? You seem like a nice bunch folks, you won't wallop me, right?"}, {"response": 370, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Apr  8, 1997 (19:37)", "body": "You're cool. Come on out and play!"}, {"response": 371, "author": "mtlady", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (15:16)", "body": "I wrote my intro. in another section. I heard today that there is a virus out there and it comes in your e mail and says from aol and states free aol on line and when you open it your entire system is wiped out including your antivirus programs. I figure it is for real because the alert was from washington and sent out to gov. fac. recieved in Atlanta at a gov. research fac. anyone heard about this?"}, {"response": 372, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "No, can you provide more details. Is it documented anywhere on the web or is there any anti-virus company that recognizes it. Have you contacted the folks at F-Prot or Norton to see if it's real. An email to them might clear things up."}, {"response": 373, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "My,my, my... Terry, this has really grown since last I checked in. At the Denver Public Library today. Brandon is on a plane bound for Philly and I'm cold and lonely. The weather is bringing me down. The middle of April. 10 degrees. Six inches of melting snow. My flowers, the ones I planted three weeks ago, will never bloom. Sad. I'm checking out a Kabir poetry book, an Aaron Copland CD and several other random fiction stories -- sci-fi, romance, modern weird, you know... a little bit of everything to help me get through the week. Miss Austin, miss warm weather. Need a cup of caffeine and a chocolate macad mia cookie. Mountain biking and skating are on hold until the snow melts and the trails dry up. Thinking fondly of my former life..."}, {"response": 374, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (17:27)", "body": "Wow, Miss Stace' checkin' in... glad you found some access. Are those Interent terminals very busy? Isn't it cool that libraries have net access now. Nearly all the Austin libraries have net access. I get Denver stations on my satellite dish so I got a little glimpse at your weather. I won't mention what kind of day we're having in Austin or that all the plants all over are in multi-colored profusion. Do you go snow skiing? That would seem a natural for you with your athleticism. Have you been in any more ironman competitions (run, swim, bike)? Well, enough of this indoor activity for now, time to get outdoors. Keep on checkin' in, Stacey!"}, {"response": 375, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Apr 14, 1997 (09:23)", "body": "Stacey stacey check back in! I'm a desperately unhappy Dallasite longing to relocate to Denver/Boulder. Please give me some words of encouragement while I wait out this interminable job-hunt. I miss Austin, too--partly why I'm heading for D/B! It's the closest I've found to that great Austin ambience. Guess I'll trade hellishly hot summers for frosty winters!"}, {"response": 376, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (12:57)", "body": "well, I'm bummed...one of the 2 main potential employers I'm looking at in Denver now lists \"no jobs available\" on their home page (they used to have half a dozen) and the other one still has the 2 unsuitable-for-me jobs they've been listing since Feb. Time to do more searching and sending."}, {"response": 377, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (21:18)", "body": "Did you get in touch with Stacey yet?"}, {"response": 378, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (21:42)", "body": "Have you thought about moving to Austin? Just a thought."}, {"response": 379, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (13:18)", "body": "Like I said in one of my many intros, it would be a dream come true to return to Austin, the town of my heart. Unfortunately, the reality is that I am just too old to live in the squalor afforded by the measly salaries paid for my line of work in Austin...so I visit and dream..."}, {"response": 380, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (13:33)", "body": "Plus I'm just too dainty these days for the blistering hellfire of those Austin summers (they made a man of me in my 20s, but now...I can't breathe!)...like Colo winters will be any less hellish!"}, {"response": 381, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (23:37)", "body": "What work do you do again?"}, {"response": 382, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Apr 18, 1997 (08:07)", "body": "Molecular biology (got my MD, quit my residency, took up lab work). Sadly, the labs in Austin are easily staffed by peons fresh out of college willing to work for peanuts. There is Ambion, the lone industry. Perhaps I should give them a whirl, see if they'd be willing to pay me vast sums of money to enjoy the Austin ambience...."}, {"response": 383, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Apr 19, 1997 (00:25)", "body": "Talk to my friend Bob Nagy who works at UT Botany when he gets over his throat surgery (about a week). He's mailto://bob@spring.com He may be able to help steer you in the right direction. I'll mention him to you. His home page is at http://www.spring.com/~kreblon There's hope!"}, {"response": 384, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Apr 21, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "You are very kind, terry. I will definitely look there! Sadly, UT is the lowest-paying, but what the heck, I'll see what's up. My ramble for today: I changed the tire on my car ALL BY MYSELF!!! last Saturday. I'm so proud of myself. Plenty of lacrimal lubrication to get the lugs off (fortunately this all took place in the privacy of my own driveway)!"}, {"response": 385, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Apr 22, 1997 (23:26)", "body": "The folks I know there love it. Despite the low pay. They like the relaxed atmosphere and benefits."}, {"response": 386, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (08:55)", "body": "As indeed I did during the 3 1/2 years I toiled in the Micro dept--great people and a fine ambience (ESB is a cool bldg)--much better than the tense unsmiling environs of UTSWMC Dallas! I'll see what the pay scale is for my now-advanced status (cf my previous inexperienced level), eh. I just need enough to pay the vet bills and the car repairman!"}, {"response": 387, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (09:24)", "body": "And apropos of nothing, let me just rant about my pet peeve, trafficwise: so you're tooling along virtually alone on the road (plenty of oncoming traffic)(but no one near you in your direction). Mr Doofus is exiting a parking lot, wants to join you on the road. He sees you 10 blocks away and waits. And waits. And waits. When you are right upon him, mere inches from his front bumper, he EASES his tuna boat out directly in front of you. Having used up every last ounce of driving courage on this bold m neuver, he proceeds to drive 5 mph for a block or two, then slams on his brakes without warning, apparently (why use a turn signal? HE knows where he's going) wishing to turn left past all the oncoming traffic. So the pair of you spend eternity waiting for a brek in traffic sufficiently large to accomodate a tuna boat driven by a moron whose used up all his courage. Not a soul behind you; he could have done all of this after you passed, but NOOOOO, he HAD to pull in front of you. Thank you and good ni ht. seriously, any other traffic annoyances out there? Or do I just need to get the idiot magnet removed from my front bumper?"}, {"response": 388, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "sorry about the typos--combination of spleen-venting and weird response frame (I can't see half of what I type!)"}, {"response": 389, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (09:28)", "body": "I'm over in Austin rambling, go back to main menu, see there's a new response in porch, come over here, and it's ME! This is too fun, chatting with myself (are the voices in my head bothering you?)."}, {"response": 390, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (13:03)", "body": "And I return hours later,see another new response, and whaddaya know--ME AGAIN!"}, {"response": 391, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 24, 1997 (13:04)", "body": "AUBREY RULES THE WORLD!! I am the only responder! I am queen of everything! Ruler of mesopotamia! Goddess of The Spring!"}, {"response": 392, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 24, 1997 (16:09)", "body": "Well, you see, aubrey, the 'ramble' topic is actually replicated throughout several conferences and forms sort of a common thread through all these conferences. It started out in the austen conference and spread out from there (though it's no longer linked to austen after the major metamorphosis it went through. Anyone see the story on the WELL in the latest issue of Wired? Two folks I know pretty well, Cliff Figallo (fig@well.com) and John Coate (tex@well.com) are on the cover looking like guys out of the Xfiles. Also pictured is Stewart Brand. I was one of the original members of the WELL and much of the inspiration for the Spring comes from what Cliff and John did at the WELL, even the name was originally a play on the WELL. Anyway, check it out."}, {"response": 393, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Apr 25, 1997 (08:13)", "body": "I thought someone was typing in porch while I was typing in austin. Ddidn't realize the computer wouldn't be able to figure out it was me all the time. Will look for Wired and your pals. You're a funny man of the spring/well/geyser."}, {"response": 394, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 30, 1997 (09:10)", "body": "Once again, aubrey is the queen of all she surveys! I rock the Spring! I am so large and in charge! I think I will chat with myself a while...."}, {"response": 395, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 30, 1997 (17:10)", "body": "I've been offline here about 3 days, I'll be getting back on soon."}, {"response": 396, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, May  2, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "But I'm having sooo much fun! I NEVER get to be the one in charge! However, you are better at it than me...Fun in the lab: I was doing an experiment yesterday that required the use of some truly noxious organic chemicals; when I was pouring them out under the fume hood (like one of those kitchen range exhaust fans, only it's enclosed on 3 1/2 sides)(designed to suck away noxious vapors so they don't enter the lab) I couldn't quite reach the sink at the back of the hood, so without thinking I NATURALLY tuck my head under the hood to get better leverage...just a half a whiff of that stuff and I blacked out and hit the floor. Yikes-a-hootey! I'm still reeling from the shock a day later! Maybe I should consider a different profession? One that doesn't require frequent use of noxious and dangerous chemicals and gene-altering isotopes?"}, {"response": 397, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May  2, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "I wondered why you hadn't been posting for a couple of days! Wow! Take it easy there. Glad you back with the conscious folks. You're set up as a telnetter now! Let me know if you have any questions about how to use the telnet / yapp interface."}, {"response": 398, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (09:08)", "body": "Well, terry, I've tried every way I can but I still seem to have some sort of block vis a vis telnet. I can get to stroud (but only via typing it into netscape or clicking on the url you left me in tv conf--the url on the welcome page still doesn't work), but get lost therafter. There is a ws-ftp to click on at one point in the depths of Stroud, but my choice seems to be to download it, which (since this is NOT my own computer) I am a bit leery of. There is no Windows95 choice. On this computer (NOT i NetScape) there is a ws-ftp icon which I played with a little, but it couldn't find telnet://www.spring.com so I stopped (but now my password and name are on the ws-ftp page). Maybe I should try this from a personal personal computer (my brother is a computer jockey; I will enlist his help)."}, {"response": 399, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (09:10)", "body": "Where the hell did THAT come from???? All I did was type in the letters for that telnet thing and it went purple!!! Does that work for other sites? http://www.vabeach.com for example?"}, {"response": 400, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "Help terry I'm scaring myself--every time I type in a url it lights up. Did I sniff too much pet ether last week or is this the glorious result of being a telnet gal? Yikes! Stop me before I hurt someone! So that vabeach url is from my e-pal who wants so desperately to join the Spring but cannot get on. I don't know what the site is, it was just the first thing I tried! AND IT WORKS! This is toooo spooooooky for me. How does the computer know where to go if I didn't tell it?"}, {"response": 401, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (09:58)", "body": "Terry I am serious, this is WAY too spooky: I sent an e-mail (via NetScape)to my bros requesting their assistance in this telnet thing, and when I typed in the spring telnet url thingie, IT LIT UP! WHY IS THIS SUDDENLY HAPPENING?? As you will note from my previous comments, I never used to be able to do lit-up urls--when I suggested websites to my e-pals, they never lit up before. How does the computer know I have a telnet account when I'm not logged on that way? IS BIG BROTHER WATCHING ME? I'm getti g paranoid!"}, {"response": 402, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (12:38)", "body": "I just left a lot of responses in ramble via telnet (with the kind assistance of my e-pal and my brother) and they didn't show up here. What's up?"}, {"response": 403, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "And now my responses are gone from telnet, although that last response (left via the website) showed up on telnet. I am deeply confused. Plus, where are the messages left for me in telnet by my e-pal pungo? Terry, take my hand and leadeth me beside the spring waters, for I knoweth not what is happen."}, {"response": 404, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (13:38)", "body": "what happens to the stuff I write here? It vanished! Hmmmm, I went to the web spring and typed that above message in, and when I came back, this last telnet response was still here... I think I need someone else to chat with for this to work? \".\""}, {"response": 405, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "Terry you'd better get here quick. My computer is now sassing back at me. I was roaming around telnet in ramble and it informed me \"a message entered before yours at 403\"--I don't know what it's talking about, but that's pretty spooky. Truly bizarre, tho--I asked it to take me to tv conf, but before it would it asked \"do you feel more enlightened now?\" WHO IS TALKING TO ME???? Are the voices in my head bothering anyone else?"}, {"response": 406, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "response 404 is me in telnet. \".\" is me trying to leave! What happened to my first set of responses a few hours ago? Why did that STUPID response show up? Where did my name come into all of this?"}, {"response": 407, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Keep after it aubrey, you'll catch on. This telnet stuff really does work!"}, {"response": 408, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Tue, May  6, 1997 (07:49)", "body": "It may work for you. It just scares me."}, {"response": 409, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May  6, 1997 (09:15)", "body": "It's not all that scary. What editor are you using? vi or pico?"}, {"response": 410, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (08:13)", "body": "ummmm...I am my own editor? Let me ask the computer god who runs the show around here. He's nice and knows everything about our set-up (he should, since he set it up!)."}, {"response": 411, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (08:23)", "body": "I couldn't find anywhere in tv conf to put this, so I'll just yammer away here: last night I got to watch a tv pilot. It was not so good but it was fun getting to watch something that may or may not be a show. The only person I recognized was Cynthia Geary from NExp (so maybe this should go there). It was a lame sitcom about a totally uninteresting couple of 20somethings getting married and all the trouble with involving their families in the wedding (his: NY Jew, hers: Southern crackers; hi-jinks ens e!). You think I could parlay this into a career? I can critique potential shows from the comfort of my own living room! Or not."}, {"response": 412, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (09:13)", "body": "You might want to hold on to your day job till you explore this a little more."}, {"response": 413, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (13:02)", "body": "It's so exciting to have you here during the day, terry! I like! So what, you think they won't pay me vast sums of money to sit around bitching about others' lack of creativity? Am I doomed to knocking myself out with organic solvents for the rest of my natural life? Breathe in, breathe out...."}, {"response": 414, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (18:33)", "body": "Are you and telnet getting along now?"}, {"response": 415, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, May  8, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "Well, not exactly. I've asked my brother the computer chimp to help me out (so don't be surprised if you read some really dull test messages here--I gave him my logon to work it out for me) so we'll see what he comes up with. My friend pungo has given up completely on The Spring (he e-mailed you for help and didn't hear back and since I can't find him on telnet he's going to find somewhere else for us to play--but I'll still be here!). I prefer the web-nased bbs rather than telnet. Maybe I'm a sucker or cool graphics (also this computer is pretty fast) or whatnot. What again are the advantages to telnet?"}, {"response": 416, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, May  8, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "That's \"web Based\" bbs!"}, {"response": 417, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, May  8, 1997 (12:12)", "body": "Oh yeah the tv pilot people never called me for my opinion--what have you been telling them about me, terry?"}, {"response": 418, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, May  9, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "The tv pilot people called last night; apparently the wrong show got beamed out so they didn't even interview me. My shiny new career vanishes like a candle in the wind...."}, {"response": 419, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May  9, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "like the old Elton John song."}, {"response": 420, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, May 14, 1997 (14:10)", "body": "how time does fly! I can't believe it's been so long since I've logged in. Boss-man really has me totin barges and liftin bales. Plus I've walked out on him a couple of times in the middle of the workin day when he starts smokin in the lab. Anyway, I got a phone interview, out of the blue, from Amgen, a company I applied to back in Feb--thought they'd forgotten all about me but apparently not. I am hopelessly unqualified for the job in question, plus it's in 1K Oaks CA where I'll never live, but who ares! I'll take the interview process as far as she'll go. I need the practice. Hey, also my bro in Denver has mentioned an editing job (for medical journals) so maybe I'll get something after all!"}, {"response": 421, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 14, 1997 (16:17)", "body": "I just got offered a webmaster job in Calif and a system network job for Compaq, but I got an even better job offer inAustin. So I'll stick around."}, {"response": 422, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, May 15, 1997 (08:06)", "body": "But even if it weren't a better offer--you'd stay in Austin, right? Calif can't compare! Do you have to move to do a computer job? Can't they just link you up or something and let you stay in that fair city?"}, {"response": 423, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 15, 1997 (08:15)", "body": "I would probably stay. If it were Northern Calif I'd be more tempted. I had a good dinner last night with Doug Larue and he has some ideas for pumping up the Spring and Capcity. Doug is a very talented designer and editor of Capitol City Arts and Entertainment magazine. We're working on ways to build traffic and to attract more dedicated websites."}, {"response": 424, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, May 16, 1997 (13:36)", "body": "I can't wait! I'm all aglow! More people would be grrrreat. I've been spending time on another website (wbs.net) and while it's fun having \"live\" conversations, the people and topics are lame. More people here would be ideal. Let me know if I (useless as I am) can help--I'm still doing word-of-mouth promotions to everyone I meet who uses computers."}, {"response": 425, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May 16, 1997 (17:59)", "body": "Anything you can do would help. I'm working 12 hours a day now so it's harder to promote this thing."}, {"response": 426, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (08:26)", "body": "Terry you must relax! Austin is for slackers! Please tell me you will not keep up this pace. Breathe in, breathe out..."}, {"response": 427, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (12:54)", "body": "I think I pumped it up a bit here on Sunday night. Take a look around and you'lll see some action, Aubrey."}, {"response": 428, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Sun, May 25, 1997 (09:20)", "body": "Where have I been??? I'm back now!"}, {"response": 429, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Sun, May 25, 1997 (09:28)", "body": "hahahaha and I'm STILL fooling myself with this ramble-in-many-conferences gag! every time I put in a response I go and check the other conference!! I have a memory span the size of a GNAT!!!"}, {"response": 430, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, May 25, 1997 (09:43)", "body": "I'm heading off to TJ Cellery's big party today, he's one of our posters in the sports conference and he's got bands, darts, and all kinds of activities going on out in Lake Bastrop today and tomorrow. It's already been going on for two days."}, {"response": 431, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Tue, May 27, 1997 (08:26)", "body": "Hope you had fun terry. I linked the spring from my \"home page\" (such as it is) on wbs.net--hope that's ok!"}, {"response": 432, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May 27, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "It's more than ok."}, {"response": 433, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, May 27, 1997 (21:38)", "body": "Hiya! Once again found myself within 3 yards of a computer and had to say hello! Miss you. Miss Austin. Should be back in late June early July. We'll do the Dog&Duck/veggie burger thing! Spring has finally reached Denver! Yea! Camping, biking and beer guzzling for Memorial Day. JuneFest this weekend -- more beer, camping and biking! Hope all is well with EVERYONE -- too many new people, I feel lost Paul! Smiles and hugs!"}, {"response": 434, "author": "ginger", "date": "Wed, May 28, 1997 (00:50)", "body": "We had a great party out in Bastrop at TJ Cellery's digs, he had live bands, horseshoes, good friends, great food and four frolicking days. He's been doing this for 25 years now (all around the country). Too bad about the Avs' Stacey Leigh!"}, {"response": 435, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 28, 1997 (07:56)", "body": "Stacey, did you hear about Don moving out to Denver?"}, {"response": 436, "author": "msegal", "date": "Thu, May 29, 1997 (10:56)", "body": "Hi. Is there anyone interested in the Canadian federal election?"}, {"response": 437, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 29, 1997 (13:50)", "body": "I hadn't been giving it much thought. Fill us in ok?"}, {"response": 438, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Jun  2, 1997 (08:33)", "body": "There's a Canadienne in my wbs chat group who want the current guy booted out in favor of the contender who she says \"won't let the Frenchies walk all over us\"--I'll ask for more details, eh?"}, {"response": 439, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jun  2, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "How about those Bulls las night?"}, {"response": 440, "author": "ginger", "date": "Sun, Jun  8, 1997 (10:00)", "body": "They're having a quiet war about that, Aubrey?"}, {"response": 441, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Jun 18, 1997 (07:58)", "body": "sadly ginger that's all I know--and terry see my query in porch intros; I am confused (so what's new!) by these new choices we have! \"preserve as unread\"??? why???"}, {"response": 442, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun 18, 1997 (11:42)", "body": "Why? Because Dave Thaler just upgraded our interface. We'll be putting out some upgrade notes soon. Aubrey, so good you're back!"}, {"response": 443, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 20, 1997 (08:06)", "body": "Thank you terry! glad to be here! so sad that boss-man keeps me away with WORK! So what is with thie COOKIE business????? why do yuo keep asking me to send them? I make a really great oatmeal chocolate chip (to die for!)--wouild a dozen satisfy you? Seriously terry this is getting ridiculous! I can hardly get on the spring for having to machete through a thicket of computer messages about COOKIES--help meeeeee!"}, {"response": 444, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun 20, 1997 (17:33)", "body": "Your broswer lets you turn off cookie notification. What browser are you using aub' ?"}, {"response": 445, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Jun 23, 1997 (08:10)", "body": "I am using netscape...everyone is telling me cookies are the worst thing in the world but you seem relatively calm about this...so I will take heart and attempt to figure out how to turn them off. if I can't can you help!"}, {"response": 446, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jun 23, 1997 (08:30)", "body": "Sure, be glad to help. What version of Netscape do you have?"}, {"response": 447, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "yu got me there pal, I just click it on hee hee hee...let me have a look-see..."}, {"response": 448, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (12:54)", "body": "the icon says 3.01 but what actually comes up is 3.0...I deselected cookie under the preferences \"show me a warning before accepting a...\" and I sure hope that's ok--I don't know why someone would select that--terry? do I need to know when the computer has accepted a cookie?"}, {"response": 449, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "Not really. It's mildly interesting. Not something to work up a frenzy over."}, {"response": 450, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (13:00)", "body": "hey!! now you actually being here IS soething to work up into a frenzy over!"}, {"response": 451, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (13:01)", "body": "And I am frothing! I have never had anyone here when I am here! so I want to hear more about the electronic minds *peering about* are they here right now?"}, {"response": 452, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (13:45)", "body": "They are, join minds."}, {"response": 454, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (11:12)", "body": "Sure pop it in the wave."}, {"response": 455, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (18:06)", "body": "and what, praytell, are we rambling about?!?"}, {"response": 456, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (18:14)", "body": "jesus! I had to go through 2 friggin years worth o crap to get here! And what do I find but the same damn words I posted somewhere else. This is un nerving!"}, {"response": 457, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (18:18)", "body": "lol!"}, {"response": 459, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 16, 1998 (10:04)", "body": "Ramble is a mega linked topic. So if you ramble here, you ramble everywhere. Just so you know."}, {"response": 460, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 16, 1998 (12:16)", "body": "That's an intimidating thought. I'm afraid to ramble now."}, {"response": 462, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 16, 1998 (13:44)", "body": "Sorry, I seldom think I have anything worthwhile to say, much less to have it echoed throughout the spring."}, {"response": 464, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Jan 17, 1998 (15:52)", "body": "Ahh, but I'm not a deep thinker like you. An eloquent stream of consciousness always rates higher than inane chit-chat."}, {"response": 466, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Jan 18, 1998 (21:39)", "body": "Well, consider yourself eloquent."}, {"response": 467, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Jan 19, 1998 (17:11)", "body": "\"I was born a ramblin' Maaaaannnnnnnnnn. Trying to make a livin' an doin' the best I caaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnn.\""}, {"response": 468, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Jan 19, 1998 (17:59)", "body": "roflmao! (that's a pretty excellent dickie betts, especially from someone subject to recurring cat dreams...)"}, {"response": 469, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (18:21)", "body": "*grin* gotta be too much herb tea!"}, {"response": 470, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (18:41)", "body": "Hey, ramblin' girl, speaking of tea, just got a shipment of chai in today. A free sample from the Pacific Chai company. Who says I never got anything free off the net?"}, {"response": 471, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (18:45)", "body": "where? Good stuff? I'm a big Celestial Seasonings fan..."}, {"response": 472, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (18:46)", "body": "JUST POSTED THIS IN MOVIES.... NOW I HAVE TO READ IT AGAIN IN FITNESS!!!!!! AAAccccccccccccccccccck! Paul, what are you doing to me?!?!"}, {"response": 473, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (18:49)", "body": "It's a conspiracy Stace, remember when I told you a few days ago that when you post here you post everywhere (thought I was kidding, eh?). Anyway, I got the free Chai tea from Pacific Chai which I found by searching for the word \"chai tea\" on yahoo's site. http://www.PacificChai.com Good stuff! Spicy, weet, rich, and *instant* chai tea."}, {"response": 474, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (19:56)", "body": "Stacey, what are your favorite CS teas? I love the mandarin orange spice, and I use their green blend for iced tea."}, {"response": 475, "author": "nike", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (11:58)", "body": "Well as the thread in this group goes more into tea, all I can add to that is the fact that I have never drunken so much tea in my life like I do now living in Londo for half a year, you really drink it at nearly anytime in the day it's incredible... Just to continue rambling (I hope nobody minds) I am just not willing to spend hours over what I should be doing, preparing for my finals here in the South Bank University in London. It has been quite a semester here, and I must say to anybody who has the chanceto join such an exchangeprogramme, do it (like the Nike ad tell's you to) It's an expirience I don't want to have missed, and I already have spend a moth in an american Junior high school, a couple of years back (yeah yeah, those were the days) this thred was called Ramble? wasn't it ? ;-) I just could go on for hours, telling you about the freezing weather we had here after we had the warmest day in January two weeks ago, since the recordings began some hundred years ago, the weather is really unpredictable... Somehow I could do with some real proper sunshine, staying here I have acquired one of the most ugly teints I have ever had, the last time I had such a pale skin was after learning for my last exams in Germany for nearly a whole month and not seeing the outside much... Well I guess all you can do about that is either eat a wagonload of carrots (betacarotin) or lie under a artificial sun for some time, which I actually don't have, or I should better say shouldn't have ;-) Rambling on I could now go into the fact that I spent nearly 2 hours downloading the newest Mac OS -8 upgrade to 8.1 Apart from that I found a cool webpage explaining about Java and even offering a whole online store for free (all the scripts and everything that is needed to make such an to run an online store) so if everything else fails (my studies here as a building engeneer) I will open an online store selling ... well I don't know... ah! I got it I'll sell semelly socks ;-) Well what I would really like to do at the moment is continue writing my webpage, but I can't continue, because I couldn't setup my harddisk here, because my friend wanted back his casing for his harddisk ... well just in case you would like to have a little look around, or find out a bit about the thesis that I want to write about, check out my page at http://www.hardlink.com/~nike I would like some feedback... Well I guess I have rambled enough ;-) I should get back to my studies (yuck) See ya around enjoy the tea (I usually just have the normal PG Tips Black tea here) Bye Nike"}, {"response": 476, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (18:59)", "body": "Just in, the inside scoop on Clinton's woes from the Drudge report in politics."}, {"response": 477, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (20:23)", "body": "Read it in the politics conference. Either it's over for Clinton or Starr. One of them will bite the dust soon."}, {"response": 478, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (20:28)", "body": "Nike, now thar's a ramblin' man! Gosh, it's great you're back with us. Buddy, ya know, got a gig with Microsoft up in big D. Funny, Buddy always despised Microsoft now he's getting those BillyBucks. I wish him well. It's a great break for him and he can help a lot of other visually handicapped folks break some barriers."}, {"response": 479, "author": "nike", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (10:21)", "body": "Yeah! don't get me rambin, when I actually have some work to do ;-) (at least not, when the work I do have to do is somethin I hate doin, like revising all the stuff I learned the last half of the yaer... Is Buddy still around here in the Spring? Well I guess it's often like that, when money is involved... I also would work for Microsoft, but in my heart I still would prefer to work with a Mac,. Anyway, a really great break for him, I must say. Why is it in big D? I thought they were up in big R? Well I hope to read lot's astuff in the various topics, only at the moment I don't have that much time, but I will broowse a bit. See ya around See ya around Nike"}, {"response": 480, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (10:43)", "body": "Hey, anyone want a free frisbee? http://cgi.pathfinder.com/cgi-bin/gdml2x/game/pathfinder/apc_survey2 will get you one if you answer their plastics survey."}, {"response": 481, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (10:44)", "body": "Big, or Dallas, is a tech support location. That's what he's doing, supporting handicapped users. And getting all the free food he can eat!"}, {"response": 482, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (12:15)", "body": "Don't forget to clue him in on the frisbee!"}, {"response": 483, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (16:45)", "body": "Autumn... teas (the faves) Tension Tamer Echinecea Ginseng Bengal \u001b[A\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[B\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D SpiceSleepyTime Emporer's Choice"}, {"response": 484, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (16:54)", "body": "I haven't heard of a couple of those...maybe they're marketed differently in other regions? Like out here we have Edy's ice cream, but on the West Coast it is Dreyer's. And in Europe, Arizona iced tea is called Colorado iced tea (sounds more exotic \"Old West\" or something, I guess!)"}, {"response": 485, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (17:05)", "body": "My super favorite in the Bengal Spice... clovey cinnamony yummy! Shame you don't have them. What are your favorites?"}, {"response": 486, "author": "russell", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (16:53)", "body": "New this month in Culture Wars magazine online: http://www.culturewars.com The Kingpins of Drug Legalization: Investigating Their Role in the Culture War by Michael J. Ard Who are the voices crying out for the de-criminalization of narcotics, and what are their real objectives? The answers may surprise you."}, {"response": 487, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:03)", "body": "My favorite is the mandarin orange spice, but if the Bengal is as good as it sounds, I'll have to look for it. Only I hope it is not too cinnamon-y, because I can't stand their apple cinnamon spice flavor. Or anything with mint."}, {"response": 488, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:18)", "body": "Thanks Russell, that culturewares site was mentioned in our web conference as a cool website not too long ago. On a less frenetic front, and back to teatalk, I picked up some more chai tea tonight and and hibiscus blend. My two current favorites."}, {"response": 489, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:23)", "body": "Ooh, hibiscus is yummy!"}, {"response": 490, "author": "doug", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:33)", "body": "Hey I just saw that culturewars site, gonna read it now. Oh, Terry, I didnt know you were a Tea Coinsure' You continue to surprise me!"}, {"response": 491, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:36)", "body": "Oh, he's a regular renaissance man....."}, {"response": 492, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:40)", "body": "Gosh, hey honest, I haven't been making under the table payments to Autumn. That hibiscus is great brewed with fresh grated ginger and sweetened with white grape juice."}, {"response": 493, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:42)", "body": "Wow--it would never occur to me to doctor tea with anything but honey or fructose. Old family recipe?"}, {"response": 494, "author": "doug", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:48)", "body": "I only came into this conference because I saw that was where the current action was. But dagnabbit if I wasn't exposed and affected by the culture oozing from the electrons of Terry's universe. We are headed to Mexico City tomarrow to go an a ancient indian adventure, talk about culture! I will be exposed to a great deal of over the next week or so. We are going to one of the valcanoes and as many pyramids as we can find, hopfully this will become celestinial. Speaking of culture, I hear there is a very cool (Spring Like) site called http://www.boat.org check it out!"}, {"response": 495, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (20:54)", "body": "Sounds like an incredible outing, Doug!"}, {"response": 496, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Jan 28, 1998 (18:31)", "body": "Hot pepper cheese craving... anyone want to join me?"}, {"response": 498, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 29, 1998 (09:07)", "body": "you can try... but i won't fit. maybe you sould put the cheese and the Ritz on me!"}, {"response": 501, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (03:06)", "body": "is that a sigh of relief or of dispair? (or were you just breathing heavy and got confused?)"}, {"response": 502, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (03:06)", "body": "drinking my tea, having finished my bagel. Fairly happy today Well, certainly not sad And I read a post from many moons ago that mentioned boyce I associate the name, obviously with the spring, but also with the summer months in Austin. And, all of a sudden, I became really homesick for Austin. My old apartment off of Riverside, runs around Town Lake, late night skates around town stopping in assorted coffee houses to play cards... The smell of the air with humidity. The hot sticky feel after exercising in humidity and sunshine. Riding through the Greenbelt, reading off Mt. Bonnell... To no one in particular... Do you ever feel happy and sad at the same time? Odd how this came up so suddenly."}, {"response": 503, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (03:06)", "body": "I guess that's me. Yeah, I feel happy and sad simultaneously. Well I got a contract on a house in Austin today. I now have 10 days to change my mind."}, {"response": 504, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (03:06)", "body": "(all the time)"}, {"response": 505, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (15:22)", "body": "Wow, a house--that's a big commitment, Terry. Sometimes I think ours is a full-time job. Stacey, that happy/sad feeling; sometimes. More commonly I feel a persistent undercurrent of restlessness laying in wait beneath the surface."}, {"response": 507, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (17:28)", "body": "congrats on the house Paul! and as far as the brief trip into emotional uncertainty... there's nothing like a class full of rowdy boys to bring you back to the here and now! *smile* and nothing like a beer (or four) to make the day a mere memory!"}, {"response": 508, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (17:39)", "body": "whew! (spamified) found ramble in another conference... that I'd never checked before two plus years of... rambling. (worn out)"}, {"response": 509, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (19:53)", "body": "ramble rambles all over about 7 or 8 conferences. Ramble really rambles."}, {"response": 511, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Feb  4, 1998 (15:19)", "body": "afternoon..."}, {"response": 513, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb  5, 1998 (17:16)", "body": "fine. busy. frustrated with certain things but nothing catastrophic... you know how it is when you begin to vent... a trickle, a stream, a flood..."}, {"response": 515, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (12:55)", "body": "sure you wanna talk??? *wink*"}, {"response": 517, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (17:26)", "body": "what should I sit on?!?! *grin*"}, {"response": 519, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sun, Feb  8, 1998 (21:29)", "body": "okay. In an effort to expand our cultural horizons, let's each choose a different language to speak to each other in. (Kind of the way men and women relate anyway) You may speak whatever you like I choose body language!"}, {"response": 522, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Jun 10, 1999 (11:57)", "body": "Ramble? RAMBLE!"}, {"response": 523, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jun 10, 1999 (17:55)", "body": "you can too, you know..."}, {"response": 524, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sun, Jun 13, 1999 (04:18)", "body": "Well, I've been known to, too! community conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 5, "subject": "community outside of virtual community", "response_count": 16, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (20:55)", "body": "Community Building Beyond the Net RJ (rjb811) Mon 23 Dec '96 (08:04 AM) While virtual community and networking through the Web are great ways to make contact with the world, I think we need to remember how important it is to continue working on real community in our daily lives. As I see it, the Web is a terrific avenue for those of us interested in building community to reach each other and give each other support, but we should also use it as a means for encouraging each other beyond the keyboard. I have been working on the \"problem\" of community for several years, and could really benefit from the experience and wisdom of others who have been facing similar challenges. At the same time, we should continue to emphasize the importance of the net as it fills in some of the empty spaces in our lives when real community is not available. I hope this topic resonates with some of you -- I'm looking forward to reading some responses and responding in turn. I've already listed my website in INTRODUCTIONS, but in case you missed it: http://people.delphi.com/Jack419 This is the site of a small community group I've been involved with for the past six years called the Wheel. We don't live together, but we do manage to be a part of each other's lives. Some of us yearn for a more communal existence but we have found our version of community encouraging and fulfilling in its own way. I'd like to hear from anyone else who's doing anything similar (or even dissimilar). Thanks! Topic 40: Community Building Beyond the Net #1 of 3: Bob Watson (librarybob) Mon 23 Dec '96 (01:45PM) Hi. Checked out part of your site, liked your graphics. Community is an interesting concept. One recent take on it inspired the Communitarian movement (though I read an Indian review of the seminal book which really dissed it--reviewer thought emphasis on community was at the root of India's problems). I'm sympathetic to the matter and can report that something as simple as a block party can work wonders. EM is, of course, a community but I'm very interested in the ability of technology enabling folks who share particular interests to get together outside the \"ancient\" (i.e., 19th century) definitions which once defined our professions. Some of us work at jobs which are spread thinly across the landscape and really have a hard time finding fellow travelers. Finally, glad to see you're supporting homeschooling. I run a public library and can afford to sit outside much of the current public school debate--but I think the right choice is the one which works for you. You need to introduce your kids to your culture, not the one which they encounter, higgledy piggledy, through the public schools. Topic 40: Community Building Beyond the Net #2 of 3: RJ (rjb811) Tue 24 Dec '96 (09:16 AM) Bob, Thanks for visiting our site and sharing your encouraging comments. I am familiar with the Communitarian movement and its emphasis on community responsibility versus individual rights. While these aspects need to be balanced, I tend to see the whole community thing as personal -- or should I say interpersonal. It's really all about how we relate to each other as much as it is how each of us relates to the community as a whole. That's why, as you said, something as simple as a block party can be so effective in building community. By merely socializing -- in a comfortable, relaxed and trustful environment -- we develop bonds which reinforce our sense of connectedness and bring about an awareness of our responsibilities to each other. I think the net has the potential to create these bonds too -- especially for those of us who have a hard time finding and linking up with other community-minded people. It can be a kind of life raft in a sea of alienation (excuse the metaphor) and it can make us more open to personal contacts in our daily lives by reassuring us that there are caring people out there. I see the net (or virtual community) not as a substitute for actual community but as an enchancement. What we've tried to do with the Wheel community over the past few years is to create a place where we can experience friendship and support in the midst of a fairly arid suburban environment. It would be easier if we lived closer to each other -- within walking distance -- but we try to make the most of what we have. And it's especially important for the children since they need community as much or more than we adults do -- particularly those who are being educated at home. It gives them a better opportunity to socialize and relate to each other and adults than the stressful, over-crowded classrooms where most children learn about life. Of course schools could be improved if we, as a society were willing to allocate the resources and decrease class size. I know I could go on and on about this (and I probably will at a later time). It's a very important facet of what we call \"community\". Topic 40: Community Building Beyond the Net I would be pleased if you would quote me -- I'"}, {"response": 2, "author": "nancyw", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (18:51)", "body": "I'd like to hear more about the Wheel. I'll check out the website when I am on a faster machine/ISP at work. I get spoiled with the speed there. I live in an urban setting and if there was one thing I can say is clearly missing is a stronger sense of community, especially as a family."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (18:54)", "body": "What urban area do you hail from?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "nancyw", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (19:02)", "body": "Seattle. (now that does not qualify as a \"quality response?\" TOo short, eh?) And I must confess I've never had the pleasure of going to Austin. Tho did have friends who lived there once. Are we the only two people conversing right now?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (19:05)", "body": "Proably, we just put up a brand new version of our software and I'm doing heavy testing right now. There are others though, they're just not around. I wonder where aubrey is these days. She's MIA."}, {"response": 6, "author": "nancyw", "date": "Wed, Jun 11, 1997 (19:16)", "body": "Must be that pesky real life interfering with some good conversations."}, {"response": 7, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Wed, Jul  2, 1997 (19:04)", "body": "Thought I'd butt in here, too, seeing as I'm new :) I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts about what constitutes community, and how to encourage it. Also, how do people become a 'community'? What do they do that defines them as such? Rituals? Rites of passage?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 23, 1997 (03:48)", "body": "I heard of \"Barking Cat Acres\" The main purpose of the Barking Cat Acres site is to brainstorm over our plans of building a geodesic dome home. In addition to this, we will be providing online space for various musicians, artists, techno record labels and individuals not fortunate enough to have direct Internet access. They are at http://barkingcat.org"}, {"response": 9, "author": "jgross5", "date": "Tue, May 26, 1998 (03:17)", "body": "someday i'm gonna talk to ya just like yer talkin' to him that gaze into yer eyes i'm wastin' time thinkin' about it the night is almost over it slipped away again the streets have loneliness to hurry back to as darkness paints the dawn i wish i could see how you sound like or how you get mad at yourself your bicycle and your walk seem as ancient as the hilltop wanna go up there? bring your niece if you want to and some big police it'll be okay, even when you cry and i'm the only one to know even when you promise me something and let me down it's not what matters that counts all you see doesn't let you go it's just that you're close, and i'm down to my last bare feeling behind that clump of trees is a truck that's turned off can i hold your hand? i guess it isn't likely....okay... can i hear your song? the one that breaks down in my eyes... mmm, your sound has a lone listener like mine yeah, it gives way to the stranger in itself it goes by but i know it's not gone can we talk about it? just softly, as you want i've never been here before where it makes such a difference to lean against someone's hair"}, {"response": 10, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, May 26, 1998 (12:35)", "body": "and then again (or maybe not, I'm much too centered to care) one day you could move here next me or I to you or us to them and talk and talk and walk and laugh scream, shout, cry, have coffee, bake dessert, stomp some grapes, have an old fashioned potluck potlatch, sit together on the same damned couch to listen in on what's really there and read our meanings in each other's eyes instead of this cold screen"}, {"response": 11, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jun  2, 1998 (09:49)", "body": ""}, {"response": 12, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jun  5, 1998 (09:13)", "body": "oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive."}, {"response": 13, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jun  5, 1998 (09:44)", "body": "did I miss something again?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jun  5, 1998 (10:27)", "body": "no, I'm just speaking of communal interactions in general."}, {"response": 15, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jun  5, 1998 (10:59)", "body": "as opposed to in private?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jun  5, 1998 (13:59)", "body": "well, actually I guess you get into a big mess if you lie to yourself too! community conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 6, "subject": "The WELL", "response_count": 13, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (20:28)", "body": "The WELL is the SF Bay areas conferencing community. It's where I first got started. Some interesting stats: Public conference visits Sun Dec 1 01:35:51 1996 through Wed Jan 1 01:33:13 1997 1. 21903 news 2. 14289 media 3. 11094 genx 4. 8345 gd 5. 7959 movies 6. 7029 books 7. 6698 current 8. 6556 music 9. 5964 slicker.ind 10. 5926 sexuality 11. 5864 byline 12. 5451 web 13. 5328 tv 14. 5264 popcult 15. 4269 sanfran 16. 4264 wired 17. 4148 sports"}, {"response": 2, "author": "marktheclown", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (06:19)", "body": "Funny that the water in the San Francisco area does not come from a Well, but the hetch-hetchy, an Aquaduct which delivers water from glaciers in the Sierras."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 1997 (08:43)", "body": "That is irony."}, {"response": 4, "author": "hummie", "date": "Mon, Jun 23, 1997 (17:17)", "body": "i liked the old well alot. it was pretty loose, free, and nobody tried to censor me. i used to spend a lot of time there, playing, and writing poetry, and such. it was a great place. what is interesting i think about the well is that it is a place from which much activity and idea about the direction of the net has happened, and i think that its sort of Motherness has onlly been slightly recognized. i am speaking of course of the old well, and not of the post 1994 well. i have suggested, and do suggest, that the old well went to the river, and then to eMinds. i also suggest that one of the most interesting things that happened on eMinds that i observed was the way that the cycle of relationship speeded up. i think that there are very definite, trackable social cycles in cspace that are different from earthspace."}, {"response": 5, "author": "aztLAN", "date": "Mon, Jun 23, 1997 (18:20)", "body": "I think all of this is loosing it's purpose. This type of forum should be defensed and preserved for the right generations to come. Technoligy cannot and willnot be monoplized by those \"choosen few\". This is my first time here and I really enjoy the fact that people can come together and express themselves without the reprecussions of being fired or replaced. Technology should make life easier not more oppressive."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jun 23, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "We're trying to insure that the words here will continue in perpetuity. We're setting up a trust to carry the Spring and our words past our lifetimes. What's up with the WELL and Maria Wilhelm these days. And Bruce Katz?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "hummie", "date": "Tue, Jun 24, 1997 (12:20)", "body": "i think that these forums have a certain lifecycle. the trick is to understand it, and to work with that cycle."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jun 24, 1997 (16:27)", "body": "Are you saying the WELL might be at the end of a cycle? Minds certainly is standing at the chasm."}, {"response": 9, "author": "hummie", "date": "Tue, Jun 24, 1997 (17:23)", "body": "it seems to me that electric minds is part of the well community, an offshoot, just like river.org is an offshoot. people wanted different communities for whatever reason, and so they formed them. i saw on eminds that about three different cycles happened: the howard cycle: discourse as product the ruthm cycle: cspace as proust the zeit/nancy cycle: fixing howard's end now i think there is a cycle forming on spring, from well/eminds; it's like ocean wavelets, signaling the dispersion of the well community. it suggests that the 1994 acquisition of the well by katz had tremendous repercussions for virtual discourse. i think that these offshoot communities have to be seen as well-diaspora, because that is their root."}, {"response": 10, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (15:55)", "body": "I'd certainly agree that many of the new communities springing up on the web and other places are derived from The WELL, it's ideas and ideals. Is that a bad thing or a good thing, do you think?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "donnal", "date": "Sat, Aug  9, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "I know this is not the Intros Topic, but since I was directed here from a topic in the WELL, I will post my first response here. Until six or seven months ago I had never been on a conferencing system, chat line, or BBS. At that time I became a WELL member and I am now hooked. (started an .ind conference and put up a Web page over there.) Recently I figured I should find out what the rest of the world is like and so I have registered on the Spring, Utne Cafe and Electric Minds. My main interests are philo ophy of science, philosophy of mind, cognitive science, information theory, mathematics and biology. For relaxation lately I've been learning Java. Oh, I also hike and read. :-)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "donnal", "date": "Sat, Aug  9, 1997 (11:57)", "body": "Hmmm. Something I need to know about word wrap here? No cut and paste, just entering this in the response box in my browser. I guess I should also try the telnet interface sometime."}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug  9, 1997 (14:19)", "body": "Cut and paste should work on the web interface. Or copy and paste. I do it pretty frequently. In the telnet interface you can use your favorite UNIX editor like vi or pico if you don't like the native built in editor. Just type :e on a line by itself to go in to your editor. These are some heady interests, philosophy of science and all, and I hope we can find some folks to join you with the same interests here. Feel free to create new topics where you deem appropos. And most of all, Welcome to the Spring. community conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 7, "subject": "Building Virtual Communities - practical ideas", "response_count": 43, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul  3, 1997 (07:06)", "body": "Let's talk about attracting users, that seems to be relevant. We've tried everything. What should we try next?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Jul  3, 1997 (19:15)", "body": "Invitation seems to be the key to things. And also, marketing a community as a place to interact *intelligently* with other people of the same mindset, and not just another Usenet with a nicer interface."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (08:50)", "body": "Phrasing an invitation so that it isn't \"spam\" is the key here. Many people are offended at any kind of invitation from someone they may not know that well. We have a gargantuan mailing list but I'm reluctant to use in preference to inviting folks one on one. I just don't have enough time to spend online to get to know enough folks to get critical mass going. Perhaps concentrating on inviting an evangelical core group would help. It's a tough nut to crack, the critical mass thing. Even on Electric Minds with its mega-budget and luminary leadership and paid hosts, there are times when the critical mass consists of a small group of folks. And there are times of inactivity. A solid core group that really likes to talk seems to be very key to this."}, {"response": 4, "author": "docc", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (10:01)", "body": "Word of mouth is still the fastest way to spread the word. Online networking is the skill needed. I tell two, they each tell two and so on. Nothing is faster. There is a new conference just starting at CyberLyceum on commercial networking for money. Watch and see if they develop any secret techniques."}, {"response": 5, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (12:37)", "body": "I'd absolutely agree about phrasing invitations correctly. It might be a good idea to particularly point out that a letter is NOT a canned one. I also think you have to invite the *right* people for the sort of place you want to develop. \"A solid core group that really likes to talk\" - see Howard Rheingold's book \"The Virtual Community\" about the Grateful Dead conference :)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (15:12)", "body": "With regards to the Critical Mass problem, I want to point out something that I've thought about Spring. Please don't take offence at this, because it's simply *my* thoughts. I personally think that there are too many conferences. I don't know how many conferences were opened by you, terry, but it seems that perhaps a couple of conferences should be opened, directing the flow of conversation, and then new ones added at the request of users. To have a lot of conferences seems to fragment people in to certain areas, none of which have that required mass of people to keep them active. New users see lots of inactive conferences/topics and think \"oh, no activity here\" and disappear. I think that the Ramble topics are *excellent* ideas, but the fact that they have around 400 articles in each, dating back to September of last year, seems to be overkill...time to retire and start a new topic, or at least archive some of the older responses. Oh well...just my thoughts...I'll be here for the flames :)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (15:16)", "body": "No flames from me. These are good ideas. I'm thinking about restructuring the conferences to a much smaller core group."}, {"response": 8, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (15:21)", "body": "I think that would be an excellent idea. The conversation needs to be led, pushed forward and directed...that way people are conversing in just a few places. Once you reach the desired mass, you will automatically get \"splinter groups\" going off and asking for their own conferences."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "I'll look into ways to \"hide\" some of the conferences and bring them out of hiding as we need them."}, {"response": 10, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (15:30)", "body": "Well, why not just nuke them out? I'm sure there are some that haven't been active for months, and if you finally get groups of people asking for such a conference then they're going to want it to be \"theirs\", rather than someone else's recycled stuff"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (21:18)", "body": "Good point. Which ones would you recommend to go first?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Jul  5, 1997 (06:11)", "body": "Let me have a look around...really just the old ones, the ones that haven't been active for *at least* a month. You don't want to go around killing conferences that people are still using :)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jul  5, 1997 (15:47)", "body": "I'll see if Dave can concoct a \"nuke\" command, otherwise I have to go around and delete all the individual responses. What about grouping conferences like they do in Electric Minds? Maybe have four or five groups."}, {"response": 14, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Jul  6, 1997 (16:34)", "body": "Hmm...can't say I've ever been a fan of the group method used on eMinds. It seems to confuse matters in a way that's unnecessary. One of the things I liked when I first came here was that I could have *instant* access to a list of all available conferences. Definitely wouldn't go with the group idea...but that's a personal view. I've also been thinking that perhaps people should be automatically \"pushed\" into the \"Porch\" conference. Such a conference is a good idea, as most V. Communities know, but I feel a lot of them miss the fact that new users quite possibly won't know/think about such a conference. If they're automatically subscribed - maybe even send the welcome topic to their screen automatically - then the \"Porch\" becomes more of a meeting place, from which people go off and explore, rather than just \"another conference\". Also, is there any way of seeing who is subscribing? It would be nice if a few of us went around welcoming new people, showing them the \"Porch\", helping them with any problems they're having - it's also a good way to get to know people and to get them to come back. This, I think, is a place where conferencing falls down as compared to real-time communities, in that people can feel very alone. Having \"Guides\" to help them may interest them in coming back. Of course, the advantage of such a guide in the case of async. conferencing is that the next time they come back, a) they know that someone they know will welcome them, and b) that welcoming person doesn't have to be *present* at that precise moment...*sigh* I love conferencing :))"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul  6, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "Some very good thoughts, you can see a list of the participants in a given conference. Have you also noticed our new feature that lets you see the 5 most recent responses over the whole system? That can be seen you go to your own main menu. As far as pushing folks to gate, you actually crate your own confernce list and you go the various confernces according o the order you have listed the conferences in your conference list or cflist as it's called. I've just spent the entire day mowing my two acre yard, and I've seem many, many ant colonies go into major frenzies as my mower blades chrned through thei8r mounds. What a job! The grass had been getting really tall. Sometimes you just have to get \"offline\" to what they call the \"real world\". I've been getting so online addicted lately, I've got to do some getting back to nature and some socializing (offline). Good thoughts and I appreciate them. Hopefully we can turn them into action."}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul  8, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "Here are some practical ideas from Jacques Yerby, who is featured on our front page. Topic 120: Comments on the Durand Offer #347 of 351: Jacking In from the Geek Port (jyerby) Tue 08 Jul '97 (06:02 PM) Re all the \"doesn't run on my platform bruhaha\" Bru haha? Hahaha! Sorry -- Firesign Theater. Anyway the Well has successfully integrated Engaged and Pico (read telnet). There's no reason why (as the development goes on) we could not have options for different levels of user. Someone complained about email in/out, but I see it as an enormous opportunity to add to the community. At one end we have the community database, at the other: 1. Telnet/pico style access. 2. Lynx level access 3. Dumb graphic browser access 4. Cutting edge browser access 5. Listserv so 'none of the above' can also partici- pate. It's not every day you get to start from the 'ground' up. If this works out, I'm sure Durand would also get a stage one solid rocket booster push out of this. Topic 120: Comments on the Durand Offer #348 of 351: Jacking in From the Moneygrubbing Port (jyerby) Tue 08 Jul '97 (06:08 PM) Re the MONEY. Even as an unemployed geek living next to the beach in Hawaii, I could afford $3/mo. OTOH, this community gains most of its appeal for me because of all the overseas members. Assuming they CAN afford to pay, the currency change problem can get very ugly. We would probably lose some valuable members who just can't afford to be here. If money becomes an issue down the road, we should determine some way to offer \"scholarships\" to people we value in the community. Feel free to crosspost these last two to (im)pertinent topics and to Utne and Durand should you so desire."}, {"response": 17, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Jul 11, 1997 (19:37)", "body": "Hmmm...strange you should mention slipping into the \"Real World\", as that's where I've been hiding for the past couple of three days :) I slipped out to take my girlfriend to work, and stayed away for ages...that never happened before :) Anyhows, I'm back now - run for your lives! :) I've been thinking about how to attract more people, and indeed more of the \"right\" people. It seems to me that many places on the net have to have an inherent \"value\" if people are to be enticed in: this value can be given by a good review somewhere, word of mouth, or by actually putting a price on entrance. If that price is low enough so that people can easily afford it, a greater value is attached - I belive - to being a member. People are here because they are making a definite choice to BE here, and there are less people \"idling\", simply because the bills clock up in the background. I am not averse to paying a reasonable amount - preferably a flat charge every month. You could cut a lot of the hassle out of collecting payments from around the globe by using \"First Virtual\" bank accounts, which are totally net-based. Anyway, sorry I've been away for so long....when are you going to bring some more people into this topic...? :) ~M"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jul 12, 1997 (09:08)", "body": "The issue of charging folks is interesting. We hadn't considered that as I'd like to not prevent anyone from coming here. The key is going to be effective PR, links from other sites, and a grass roots movement in the Austin, Texas area where the Spring is flesh based. Keep the suggestions coming, we'll follow up on as many of them as we can."}, {"response": 19, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Jul 12, 1997 (21:00)", "body": "O.K. First conference to kill: nh - \"native american health issues\" etc. wtf?! 1 Topic, 1 response.... ~M"}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 13, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "I just started that at the request of someone. What we need to do is separate out the special interest and lesser used conferences in another area. We set up a lot of conferences for folks on request, like the ones we just set up called 'bronte' and 'medieval'. I'll ask Dave if there's something we can do in software, in Yapp, to handle this. Good suggestions."}, {"response": 21, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, Jul 14, 1997 (06:14)", "body": "One other thing that I think is missing, either due to YAPP or just due to lack of time or something, is on-line biog-s. I know that many people have homepages etc. to tell people about themselves (I certainly do), but I just feel that on-line biog-s give conferencees instant access to the people they're conversing with. Any chance of getting it in?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul 14, 1997 (08:59)", "body": "There's a great idea, I'll talk to Dave Thaler about implementing this."}, {"response": 23, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, Jul 14, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "I really think we need to attract more people into this topic, Paul. How about inviting people specifically from eMinds/Utne to here. I can't do that personally, as my browser(s) have problems with both sites (too complicated for their own good - they should use YAPP, it's much better :) Anyway, that's it for now...I'll drop more ideas when they occur."}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul 14, 1997 (17:45)", "body": "You'll get flamed at any overt attempt to invite folks from those places to here. But if you invite individuals on an individual basis who you feel would like this kind of backwater community, then do by all means."}, {"response": 25, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jul 14, 1997 (19:31)", "body": "Mike: If you know anyone on-line who is interested in the Brontes, please invite them here by all means! The more the merrier!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul 14, 1997 (23:49)", "body": "Amy, are you asking the Bronte websites elsewhere to link to here? By the way, bravo for you efforts Amy!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Tue, Jul 15, 1997 (14:13)", "body": "Yeah...I've been thinking about the Bronte conf./topic myself. I almost wish I was interested in the subject, as it's a rather busy place :) Nice to see you here, Amy. Have you been here all along, just listening in, or are you a new contributor? Finally, as you seem to have missed, I don't actually *have* access to either eMinds or Utne from my home - it's up to *you* guys :) And yes, I was thinking of the invites being directed to specific people, not just posted in various topics :))"}, {"response": 28, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Jul 17, 1997 (17:53)", "body": "OK this follows on from what I've just written in Porch.9 about a new conference. It was a suggestion that we have a Parenting conference, an idea brought about a) by my knowledge of Parenting on the WELL and b) the fact that my sister has just become a parent :) It occurred to me, however, that such a conference would die a death similar to most on the Spring because it has been approached the wrong way round. In all areas on community there has to be *need* for such a thing. Demand must outstrip supply, otherwise there is no enthusiasm. Here, on the Spring, we have an excellent conferencing system, lots of interesting areas to discuss and.....very few active conferencees :/ oh *sigh*...I love this place so much, why can't we make it busier?! I'm trying to get all of my friends to come along, but they don't seem to want to stay or even say anything...it's very disheartening... I vote we charge for access :)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 17, 1997 (21:23)", "body": "We're gonna get traffic pretty soon because I know some folks that are gonna help. And there's already a parenting conference. Use it. Invite others to use it. I'll figure out a way to give the \"appearance\" of a few core conferences."}, {"response": 30, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (16:15)", "body": "******************************************************************** TWO SIDES OF COMMUNITIES I've spent the last week or so driving around the North of Ireland. First in Donegal and then in Derry, Antrim, Armagh, Tyrone. For those of you unaware of Irish geography, the latter four counties are in Northern Ireland. The northern coast of Ireland is rugged and beautiful. Donegal has its many mountains that overlook the sea and Antrim has the Giant's Causeway, a truly amazing pattern of hexagonal rocks that rise and fall in step formation. A thing that struck me as we drove was how much physical space there is around us. Ireland is a small country but it would take a long time to visit every town and village, to drive up every mountain pass, to walk on every beach. (If cyberspace ends up being anywhere as large as physical space\ufffd) The subject of communities is a primary focus of mine. Come to Ireland and you will see lots of teenagers wearing Nike and adidas gear. Visit Kildare and Galway over the next month and you are likely to see far more wearing Kildare and Galway gear as the two counties prepare for the All-Ireland Football Final in September. Both teams have not been in an All-Ireland Final for many a year, and the feeling in each county is quite electric. People believe in their locality in a very intense way in this country. As I drove through Northern Ireland I could feel the loyalty to the locality. I could also see it hanging from telephone and electricity masts, as Union Jacks and Tricolours marked out the territory. In some villages there was an intense quantity of flowers, cramming the edges of the roadway, hanging on every wall. \"Ulster in bloom\" one of the banners read. We passed by Portadown where the Orange Order are still demanding to march down through a nationalist estate. We came near Omagh, a place of awful tragedy some weeks back where 28 innocent people were killed by a dissident Republican bomb. During the week I caught the latter part of a Disney documentary on Irish America. People talked about the strength of the Irish communities there and how they began to dissolve as the Irish moved higher up society. One commented that Irish-American communities often defined themselves as much by their enemies and by what they opposed as by anything else. In my research about communities I have found that people rarely like to see their communities as exclusionist. They paint all the positive pictures. Indeed, there are many positive things about communities and that is why they are seen as a necessary development for the Internet. Ireland is a genuinely friendly place and Irish people will often go out of their way to help you. Ireland under the surface can be a very scary place. We hold grudges. We sleep with history. We bide our time. Ireland is changing too, and the recent referendum resulted in an overwhelming vote for peace. Communities are complex, difficult things. They take time to grow and are slow to change. What makes them strong can make them scary to the outsider or to the member who wishes to be different. Those who seek to work with \"online communities\" need to understand that they will not be easily packaged into three-year business plans. Gerry McGovern gerry@nua.ie ******************************************************************** If you have enjoyed New Thinking, please consider telling somebody else about it. ******************************************************************** For New thinking archives, please go to: http://www.nua.ie/newthinking/archives/index.html ********************************************************************"}, {"response": 31, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (12:48)", "body": "That was a nice bit. How does it relate to the topic?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (23:56)", "body": "Now I'm the one confused. Please elaborate on your question..."}, {"response": 33, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (07:29)", "body": "What I'm trying to say is that I do not understand how pastoral Ireland relates to a virtual community. Maybe I'm missing something."}, {"response": 34, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (16:05)", "body": "we are incorporating ideals from pastoral Ireland into this community all the time. you'd be surprised how many of us have an undue fascination with sheep and grass!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (20:55)", "body": "Indeed I would."}, {"response": 36, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (20:56)", "body": "What do you do? Count the sheep and smoke the grass?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (20:58)", "body": "Or do you do something else to the sheep, while smoking the grass?"}, {"response": 38, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (21:27)", "body": "actually, the vegetarians eat the grass and all the normal people eat the sheep..."}, {"response": 39, "author": "TIM", "date": "Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (21:54)", "body": "Uh OH Something is making sense here."}, {"response": 40, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Aug 29, 1999 (17:53)", "body": "after the veggie-grazers have cleared a bit of land I am gonna plant root crops to go with those sheep. Mint, too. Make this mutton as edible as possible. May I also plant Rosemary? Works great with mutton..."}, {"response": 41, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Aug 30, 1999 (14:53)", "body": "works great with rum cakes too!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (20:50)", "body": "Oooh, did not know that...hmmm...thanks!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (00:22)", "body": "hmmmm community conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 8, "subject": "The Meadows in Takilma Oregon", "response_count": 14, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:06)", "body": "The only thing I could find on the net about the Meadows was this, a letter from Romain to Home Power Magazine. Dear Richard and Home Power Staff, A little get acquainted talk before I get to the heart of my letter. My name is Romain Cooper and I talked to Richard once over the phone about a used inverter and then about AE, the magazine etc. I live near Takilma, OR with 3 other families on a semi-remote, 200 acre piece of land. We inhabitants did without electricity for many years for the usual reasons: We didn't want to support those \"coal burning, river damming, nuke-reacting\" utilities, we wanted to remain somewhat self reliant and the price tag of a grid hookup was prohibitive. 9 years ago we first discovered hydro-generated electricity. Our initial installations were the simplest imaginable. Wheels from pulleys and stainless steel dessert spoons, surplus permanent magnet alternators, and Sears deep cycle 12V batteries. A voltmeter and switch to prevent back cycling rounded out the system. Two irrigation lines served as penstocks. They both had about 100' of head and were of 2.5\" or 3\" PVC. About 4 years ago we upgraded our \"electric company\". A new penstock was installed to provide irrigation for the 2.5 garden/orchard, to supply domestic water to 3 residences, and to supply electricity to the 3 residences and to misc. shops and work places. The pipeline is 2000' of 5\" PVC, mostly buried, with 200' of drop. The system was designed to eventually produce straight ac current during winter flows, hence the 6\" pipe. The present system utilizes a 4 jet Harris pelton wheel (4.5\"D), a Ford heavy duty truck alternator, 8 Trojan L-16 batteries (wired in series and parallel to store 1400 AH (700AH? RP) at 24V) and a Heart 24V, 2400W inverter. Jonny Klien, neighbor and friend, built for us a voltage regulator that measures battery voltage and relays a dummy load. (This is the JK who is a Takilma ham operator.) This system is removed from the residences that it services by 200 yards from the nearest residence to 600 yards to the farthest. The trenches that hold the AL transmission cables also hold the water yards from the nearest residence to 600 yards to the farthest. The trenches that hold the AL transmission cables also hold the water pipes for the domestic water and cables for phone service. Another system, for a single residence, utilizes the 3\" PVC, 110' head irrigation system that was designed to water a 4 acre meadow. It operates on a single jet Harris pelton identical to the other system's with a home-made housing, a surplus permanent magnet alternator, (2) 6V deep cycle forklift batteries wired in series for 12V and a Trace 2000W 12V inverter. The systems have performed well for several years. We run the usual devices: lights, audio (with inverter noise), juicers, blenders, and such, washing machines, power tools. Been running my IBM clone AT on the Heart inverter heavy for over a year with no problems. Though the alternator of the 3 family system can run 60 amps (for how long?), we get what we need for 3 households with 10 amps worth (25-27V) and still trip the shunt load daily. 24 gal./min. gives the 10 amps. The single residence system delivers 10 amps at 13-14V. For us, the catcher is summer time. From July into October we can use hydro only sporadically. Our stream flows are very low and use most of our hydro-power to push irrigation sprinklers rather than generate electricity. Last summer we increased our PV generating capacity of (4) 44W Kyocera panels with 10 bargain 36W Solavolt panels. We put the panels on a beam framework and used wooden mounts modeled after the metal ones described in issue 2. The wiring to the power/battery/inverter shed and components were sized to a 30 amp (at 24V) load to allow for expansion of the array. Unfortunately, the solar site chosen has only fair solar potential. Analysis showed it cheaper to purchase additional panels at reduced output due to shading than to purchase and install wire and components to bring the 24V current to the batteries and inverter from a sunnier location. Which finally brings me to the heart of the letter. Evaluating various sites for their PV outputs proved to be a lot of work and guess work. A few months later, while monitoring streams for the US Forest Service, I used a tool that seemed ideal for evaluating the solar capabilities of a site. The device is called a Solar Pathfinder and it is manufactured by Solar Pathways, Inc. of Glenwood Springs, Colorado. The pathfinder looks somewhat like an R2D2 robot. The Forest Service uses it to determine the amount of sun striking a stream at a particular place (which strongly influences stream water temperatures). The device is easy to use and portable. It measures, in one fast reading, the hours of sun hitting a site for the entire year. The reading can be taken anytime of day or year in clear or cloudy weather. A transparent, parabolic mirror shows reflections of all shade producing features inc"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:07)", "body": "The only contact I could find! Romain Cooper Program Director Siskiyou Regional Education Project P.O. Box 220 Cave Junction, Oregon 97523 Phone (541) 592-4459 Fax (541) 592-2653 mailto://romain@siskiyou.org http://www.siskiyou.org"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:09)", "body": "And here's the email from Eugene: From: Eugene Hill To: terry@www.spring.net Subject: (no subject) i was one of the founding members of \"the meadows\" commune in 1969-71 takilma oregon... does the commune still exist... is anyone online... do any of the original members still live there... i was thinking of coming for a visit... but did not want to waste my time if everyone is gone... thanks for taking the time to reply... if you do... eugene hill Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:37:09 -0600 From: Eugene Hill To: Paul Terry Walhus Subject: Re: (no subject) i live south of albuquerque, nm... i have 2 acres and a home... i left the meadows in 1972-73 right after janet silverman committed suicide... i built the wooden teepee next to the stream but don't know how long it stayed up after i left... i knew everyone you speak of (i think)... did you know susan, allen and reva and there kids... also there was bill (white rabbit) donny, abby... i just heard that allen was murdered and reva died of cancer... glad to hear from you... why don't you write to me and maybe i will collect stories and put up a web page about the meadows somewhere... also will fill you in how what i know since i was there from the beginning... how great is the music scene in austin??? i spent some time in san antonio a few years ago but did not get to spend any time in austin... thanks for writing..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:15)", "body": "FROM llucy...................May 2, 2000, 10:16 (EST) hmm my chariot calling. just got a REUNION invitation from the Meadows...in august, some of y'all should come full moon. had a question..did alan and reva weiss come from Newpaltz? does anyone know where their children are? sure it's three decades later and guns in schools but remember the behaviorist's wood have had the humanrats at their own throats already years ago and so it goes population pressures, but we wood not give up our nice, loving, intelligent well adapted kids and grandkids either hmmmmm? the delicate balance of globalization which i noticed THE POPE (god spare us) denounced in a speechcummass on mayday...is feeding and using and sparking the whole teetering mass of us in spite of all this. maybe giving us a chance to think of something better yet before we turn out to be no smarter than a one celled organism.. humans! ya got to be intrigued. must get to work carry on! love http://members.aol.com/tedibearxx/archive10.html"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:18)", "body": "FROM llucy...................Apr 18, 2002, 09:15 (EST) <> checking back in....spent a little time in takilma last weekend..visted grace, mowed her lawn(had to repair the mower)young women still not hep to becoming their own mechanics as quick as possible. went out to t-town and rode a horse to hope mountain down to waldo and back thru allan gulch. the bycycle path,,,built with such care 20 years ago now growing neglected. someone has taken a cat and stirred up the queen of bronze tailing pond...bet that put toxic stew into the watershed.Pelliter hired Jim Dougherty to log that piece behind the community building. he selected out for all the big trees...some 2nd growth left. left the slash down on ground...now that is going to be a fuelload for a wildfire. dry there/even more dry that my desert home. most unsettling. http://members.aol.com/tedibearxx/archive26.html"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:20)", "body": "FROM llucy...................Apr 25, 2000, 10:22 (EST) well..morning you guys. finding you just by random chance was sweet. it makes me feel like hanging a deer and inviting y'all over for music. sigh. what ya say? still in oregon even if a lonk way from holland. what about tom (m)? still about the planet you think? think i'll stop and burn one for him.. me honey convinced me to give up cigs..(but still sneak one or two a month) chuckle..but will go still smoking.. it's bizarre i found you cause just this last month have had series of dreams all dreams of trying to get to the crystal palace and never getting all the way there..and artichokes always bloom along the trail. hey..email i guess is safe 'nuf... mailto://llucy85@hotmail.com . love"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:24)", "body": "FROM llucy...................May 5, 2002, 09:14 (EST) <> morning all!..the lovely news is that our children are holding a music camping festival on White School House Road, JUNE 1 and 2. That is Cave Junction folks. They have a website.. (www.SHININGSTARSFESTIVAL.com) and a phone number for tickets...541-592-5460. This is a fundraiser for the dome school. It just sounds like great fun and Allan and I will stop working like retirees and go have some fun...18 bands we have never heard of oh well we just are not hip to the new music out there. i am still stuck on danny hathaway and roberta flack.chuckle."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:25)", "body": "FROM llucy...................May 5, 2002, 18:02 (EST) A Dome School & Takilma Community Benefit Mountain Meadows - Cave Junction, OR June 1 & 2, 2002 Confirmed Acts: Freedom Tribe, Jupiter Hollow, The Sasha Butterfly Band, Tina Malia, Shim Shai, Broadfunk, Americanistan, The Rhythm Pimps, Kawaida, School of Green, Trickle up Theory, Redwood Highway, I AM Crew, Day*Go*Bah, Cesar, MC Metric & Marv Ellis, DJ Zion, Isall & The Circle of Light, Scott Huckabay, and more to be announced\ufffd For even more fun, there will be The Illuminated Fools Giant Puppets, Fire dancers, Parades, Workshops, as well as many surprises included with your pass\ufffd Of course our show would not be complete without our Kids village \ufffd Children can do all kinds of arts & crafts projects, as well as free face painting, and snacks. Kid's Village will have sacred space available for resting children and nursing mommas\ufffd Any other questions? e-mail us or call! 541-592-5460 Shining Stars Festival PO Box 1225 Cave Junction, OR 97523 There will also be late night festivities for all of our beautiful campers\ufffd 2 Stages on 400 acres! Volunteers/Vending: Please send your request to our e-mail addy or call (541) 592-5460"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:41)", "body": "So wither the Meadows? Does it still exist and who lives there now?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:53)", "body": "This guy would know: Jonathan D. Klein K7JK, Talsalsan Farm, 12330 Takilma Rd., Cave Junction, OR 97523. Here's what I wrote in my introduction in topic 1 in the Spring's Farm Conference. Topic 1 of 24 [farm]: introductions Response 29 of 33: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Fri, May 4, 2001 (00:43) * 1 lines There are some great communities in Southern Oregon, I lived there about 20 years and my wife at the time and I worked a little natural foods store (called affectionately the \"Wonder Dome\" by area folk) on the highway from Takilma to Grants Pass. There was (is?) a place there called the Meadows, it's about 200 acres of springfed woods and gardens and the Illinois River borders it. It's quite paradaisical, I remember some of the folks, Romaine, Bear, Beth and Michael. Joohnhnny the ham operator lived down the road and there were the sisters who lived at a Farm behind Talsalsan Farm, Laurie and, and ? , Apple's Larry Tessler lived at a commune in the neighborhood with a name that's on the tip of my tongue, Canaan I think it was, they had a huge lodge and ran the local peoples clinic. Crooks Creek and the Family of the Mystic Arts were other phenomenal communities, I could write a book about this era!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (11:30)", "body": "Highly recommended, the Siskiyou Newsletter to which Romain and Lori have made major contributions: http://www.siskiyou.org/newsletters/sp02.pdf"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 13, 2002 (07:41)", "body": "Wow, an email reply this morning from Romain! Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:33:25 -0700 From: Romain Cooper To: Paul Terry Walhus Cc: Eugene Hill Subject: Meadows Paul and (Eu)Gene, I do remember both of you and hope all is well with you. The Meadows does indeed still exist but not as a commune. We are a land trust (with a conservation easement to protect the ecology and natural beauty of the Meadows) but we operate as seperate households who live cooperatively. Mark and Beth are still here. I live with Christy (Paul probably met her but not Gene). Beth, Mark, Christy and I share a large garden that supplies much of our food (vegies and fruits) year round. Dog is still here with his wife, Linda (though they are often in Eugene, OR where Linda is presently employed. A third building is now occupied by renters. Kids are older and have \"flown the coop\". We had a 30 year reunion (Mark and I and Allen and Reva, etc. first arrived in 1970) in Aug., 1990. We tried to locate both of you w/o success. It was a great reunion though w/ many folk making it from all over the country. Much has transpired and I can't at this time give a real update. It's been a long time since I talked with or heard from you, Paul, and much longer for you, Gene. Reva did die of cancer but Allen wasn't murdered (suicide or drug overdose or both? Many years ago). The house I built in 1980 and still live in is over the site of the \"wooden teepee\". Looks like you now go by your full name, Eugene? My name is spelled w/o the \"e\". I am working (as director at this time) of a local enviro group ( www.siskiyou.org or www.siskiyourivers.org ). As perhaps you've heard, a huge fire (~380,000 acres) is now burning just to the west of here in the Kalmiopsis Wilderness and surrounding wildlands. This is a rough situation that has kept me, and all the staff, busier than usual. Beth and Mark are basket makers (of course they do all kinds of other things). The baskets are made from local materials and have to be seen to be believed. Donnalee is still here in Takilma. Gemini Bill is in Cave Jct. Donny died about 8 years ago in a freak canoe accident / drowning (he hadn't lived in this area for a number of years) - so sad. Keep in touch, guys. Once again, hope all is well on your end of the world. Romain"}, {"response": 13, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Jul  2, 2006 (09:41)", "body": "I emailed Romain for an update."}, {"response": 14, "author": "paul", "date": "Sun, Jun  3, 2007 (10:23)", "body": "http://www.sunnyridge.net/guestbook/history/history.html is a set of links on Sunnyridge in Takilma, one of the neighboring communities. community conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 9, "subject": "Looking for Conclusion", "response_count": 3, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Jun 16, 2003 (08:43)", "body": "Okay Mr whoever you are. You have sincerely freaked me out today. I wrote that 'obit' of sorts... years and years ago. Sandra McGovern was the sister of Jeff, my little brother's best friend in grade school. Ummm... soo... too weird for me, since I don't know you from Adam. The McGovern's are still living in the same place after all these years (in Wildwood) however I'm unsure of where Sandra rests. I knew her only as a small child... cute, thin and full of energy. It seems strange to me that she would tease someone for their weight... both of her parents were very big people. But I don't doubt what you say or your motives to make amends with the dead. I'll call my parents and see what I can find out for you. As for right now, I'm going to go make myself a cup of calming tea... too freaky this morning!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jun 24, 2003 (22:39)", "body": "Where's Wildwood?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sat, Jul  5, 2003 (17:21)", "body": "San Antonio, TX. It's the neighborhood I grew up in... community conference Main Menu"}]}]}