{"conf": "farm", "generated_at": "2026-04-26T08:00:02.954878Z", "threads": [{"num": 1, "subject": "introductions", "response_count": 25, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Mon, Jan 26, 1998 (20:32)", "body": "I am a 35 yr.old nurse, and I was brought up in Summertown, not very far from The Farm. I was 10 yrs.old that summer that all the beautiful multi-colored buses came rolling down the highway, headed to the Farm's present location.I sat in the swing in the back yard, and, counted them as they passed down the road!I have never lived there, but, I have many friends there, and visit every week. I get most of my organic food at The Farm Store!I am also a bass guitarist, and, have played at alot of Farm benefit concerts."}, {"response": 2, "author": "doozer", "date": "Mon, Jan 26, 1998 (22:10)", "body": "i grew up for only 4 yrs on the farm but was privleged to go back and rediscover the place which there was no rat race or class of soiciety. My parents especially my father Alan and Jane Graf, talked abt the times they had and the friends that went with that time. I am only 21 now and am just living life as i want too. I somtimes just sit back and rember a certian 7-11 there, and i smile a quiet smile remembering the time way back..........."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 26, 1998 (23:34)", "body": "Welcome Annette. I knew Alan and Jane, wonder what they're up to these days? I seem to remember that Alan had moved from Austin to become a lawyer in Oregon several years back, is that right?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Tue, Jan 27, 1998 (13:56)", "body": "Yea - \"AlanG\"! He and his group played at the Farm, last summer; I do recall that it was during 7-11! Great music, too! We were all glad to have them!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Jason", "date": "Thu, Jan 29, 1998 (23:58)", "body": "I'm a 26 year old college student. I read about the Farm in what Stephen called a \"republican publication.\"... some magazine ran by Whittle Communications. The article wasn't very positive, but I knew enough to know what was going on or at least what had gone on at the Farm. I split one weekend and just went there. I took a videocamera back to the junkyard and made a little tour of all the old buses. I also met Aaron Christopherson and we hung out for a while. It was a good thing that I had the vidcam., a I was able to tape a little bit after my car's engine threw a rod on one of the exits in Nashville at midnight on the way back!! I still have the tape, BTW. I went back 4 or 5 times after that. Call it whatever you want, but I get a really good positive feeling about the place. Once I get another one of my buses running, I'll probably try to make it down there again..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb 10, 1998 (21:58)", "body": "I had to copy and paste this from the 'apps' conference. Response 134 of 135: Andy Fieldflower (mindspace) Tue, Feb 10, 1998 (18:17) 4 lines Hi there! I live in Sweden, and am interressted in a site about 'the Farm' these days! Know that I have been in here before, but I don`t know under what pseudonym, so....! I`m a member of the LYCAEUM! http://www.lycaeum.org And there my 'Pseudonym' are mailto://arba@nym.lycaeum.org (end copy and paste) Welcome Andy, I hope we get to hear more about this LYCAEUM, you have peaked my curiosity! You've found the Farm discussion place, dive in!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "sewanee88", "date": "Mon, Apr 27, 1998 (14:28)", "body": "I visited the Farm while I was attending college in Sewanee in the mid-to-late 80's; can't remember the exact year. My (then) wife and I met Ida Mae Gaskins and her husband, who happened to be dealing with a recently deceased Volvo, if I remember correctly. My wife was very impressed with the Gaskinses and the farm, I less so, although I appreciated its otherworldly air. It was a hot summer day, and we drove by the swimming hole, where many were beating the heat. I was impressed by the musical stage, sort of geodesic arrangement. I was also impressed by the general air of leisure and no-hurry of the people there, just whiling away a hot day in the most natural way. I sit here in my office in a high-rise building in downtown Chicago, with my expensive shirt and tie and my Italian shoes and my big paycheck, and I remember that day and the woman who was then my wife, and I wonder at it all, how one day lay on the path, inexorably, to the other. How strange."}, {"response": 8, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, May  5, 1998 (09:11)", "body": "are you happy now? strange indeed."}, {"response": 9, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (19:36)", "body": "This would probably be more interesting if I had a clue what was being discussed."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (07:52)", "body": "This whole conference is about a large communal Farm in Tennessee. Mostly vegetarian."}, {"response": 11, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (08:32)", "body": "O K"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Roan", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (03:09)", "body": "Hi. I am Roan Carratu. I lived on the Farm or it's 'secondary' Farms in a bunch of states from 1974 to 1983. I learned more on the Farm than anywhere else I ever lived, and still live by the spiritual vows I took then. I work with the New Civilization Network and the forming Foundation, and the instigator of an email list about the Farm which is not quite going yet. The members may check into here soon, since I notified them of this club. I regret nothing about the Farm Experiment, and consider it, slightly modified, to be the civilization of the future. It was too socially/politically naive, but the premise was and is the only survivable proposal for sane living I have ever found, so far. Experiments don't fail, they educate, and always lead to further experiments... -- Peace and Good Health, ------------------------------- Roan Carratu Business Site: http://www.OurMoment.com Home Site: http://www.bibbs.com/roan GeoDemocracy Site: http://geodemocracy.webjump.com Farmlist Site: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Andes/3262 Email: roan@bibbs.com roan@worldtrans.org worldmind@geocities.com webmaster@OurMoment.com"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (07:29)", "body": "Great that you're checking in, Roan. What are you doing nowadays? And what is your current connection to the Farm? Do you visit there? Do you still have friends on the Farm? Who did you \"hang\" with when you lived there? I think it's great that you're maintaining a listserv mailing list and I've just started to follow it."}, {"response": 14, "author": "akia", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (20:05)", "body": "Hi, this is Frank from Dogwood Blossom and the Austin Farm...I lived on Dogwood at about the same time Roan did...then I did the Austin Farm during the early dairy scene...we got it going...the other guy who was going to make tofu left...and we opened...sold a lot of good tofu. I left 'cause of a hep outbreak...had to close the dairy... I understand later Farm Foods of Texas re-opened doing an ice-bean thing. I split and did the carnival...went back to school...got a BSET and now do computer work for a church software company. -and still live by the spiritual vows I took then. I don't...I'm a gun owning omnivore...I voted for Pat Buchanan for President. but The Farm as a church still influences me to this day. and my diet is still different...I still eat GTNY (red star)and think of brown rice,\"fancy\" beans, and a salad as being a nice dinner...(it -IS- a good dinner...but ask your general omnivore about it)...I own a pressure cooker and know how to use it. -I regret nothing about the Farm Experiment, I do not regret my Farm time. It was an educational experience. I learned a lot."}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb  6, 1999 (09:36)", "body": "Are you a big tall guy? I'm trying to remember if I ever ran accross you in Austin, when did you leave Austin and where (what town) are you living now?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "moonpi", "date": "Sat, Feb 13, 1999 (18:57)", "body": "Hi! Christina Moon (formerly Tina Long) here. I lived on the TN Farm from 1977 till I left in 1983. I have 5 kids, Sean, Jeff, Peter, Erin & John. My ex's name is David Long. He worked in the Book Publishing Co. I was a midwife. I now live in Eureka Springs, Arkansas, in the woods, on a mountain top. I am now a Hospice Midwife/RN. All 5 kids live near enough that we get to see each other fairly frequently. I am interested in reconnecting with Farm folks & continuing the discussion......... Blessed Be! Christina"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb 14, 1999 (00:24)", "body": "What's the view like from your mountaintop?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "detwilerc", "date": "Sat, Mar 18, 2000 (10:20)", "body": "Hi This of course is my real name,not a pseudonym. It makes me laugh to think maybe Im wrong and Im really someone else. Oh well-- Im a beginner on the web. I got an address at the library and may be bumped off at any minute. Its luck i found my way to this chat. Im very thrilled and hope I can get back tommorrow to see if I get any responses. I joined the Farm in l980. Lived at Fourth South for almost a year, then moved next door to Fourth North, Also lived with James and Bea Staggs at First Road House with Leslie and Pamala next door. I spent a year and a half at the New YOrk Farm and some months at the DC Center before returning to the Farm . I did canning, dairy, gate, and worked at the Recording Studio/Tape Co. I have alot to say , but for a long time I was too mad to do anything but turn everyone off----even folks who agreed with me. I tried going to the \"offical farm site\" but not much there. Finally got connected through a link to the Farm Net News and got a sample copy, and a way to t is site. I sure look forward to communicating with ex Farm folks who want to talk more then the party line. I was stunned to hear of John Iburs death. I was close with the Iburs when I lived in TN, but have lost touch with all my friends there for some years now. I live in Ithaca, New York now at 3l8 Plain St. 14850 2750361 , e-mail detwilerc@Yahoo. Ill be wrinting more if I can get back here."}, {"response": 19, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Mar 28, 2000 (09:08)", "body": "Wow, Christine, glad you found this via the FNN of Karen Flaherty. I talked to Karen for about a half hour day before yesterday thanks to the miracle of http://www.dialpad.com . The net and apps like dialpad are letting us renew long lost relationships. Why were you so mad? I really hope you find your way back here."}, {"response": 20, "author": "detwilerc", "date": "Tue, Mar 28, 2000 (16:12)", "body": "Hi Terry Was really amazed to find my letter featured. I'll think about this a little bit and respond to your question, \"why was I so mad\", soon. I didn't read the Farm Net for many years, so alot of my stuff has probably been covered before, but I did return to the Farm from the New York Farm at a time when most other folks were gone or heading out.(after the coup) I observed some real disturbing things that alot of people didnt. By the way, do I know you? Im back at the library on 15 minute express so have to go now, but will be in touch. I realize It was wrong to call this a chat. Is there a chat going on other then here with ex Farm members? Thanks again===your response has made my week. Christine"}, {"response": 21, "author": "detwilerc", "date": "Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (13:17)", "body": "HI Well, Im back. Its been hard for me to pin it down in words I want to say about why I was so mad, but Ill give it a try. I felt that when I joined the Farm and sacrificed many many things worth more then just the money and the car that I gave the Farm, the I was entering into an agreement---a legal agreement as well as spiritual. We owned all things in common. I felt angry that a group of people could plot behind other peoples back and just announce that everything was changed because they said so. I felt that the \"new Farm---Firm,whatever\" accomplished the restructuring of the Farm by being bullies and indimidating any one else who didnt agree with them. The children of God are not worldly wise,and most folks just rolled over and left. There was also the factor that the leaders of this coup were people who had been entrusted with positions of power, heads of businesses, bank,etc. They knew the change was going to happen (because they were engineering it) way before the general populace and were a le to financially prepare for it. An example of this would be how Robert Moore of Solar Electronics would buy a new car for the business before the change then after the change also be the one who owned Solar Electronics (because he said so) and have a car to drive whenever he wanted to even if it wasnt technically his. (or his to have to pay for) I wouldnt put it past him to somehow have this covered making it part of the Farm debt to be paid off with common funds. Im not saying he did this, but I think he did. Then there was the deal with the soy dairy. The Foundation would sell these business at their descretion (LEGALLY COMMUNIALLY HELD BUSINESSES) for whatever and to whomever they wanted to. There was supposed to be open bidding for the soy dairy but the announcement to that effect was for such a short time period that people like Romona and Jeff lost the chance by just being out of town for a few days. To add insult to injury Ron and Michele Lee came up with a big part of their down payment by se ling off every bit of stainless steel they could scam from canning and the bakery.(all the big cooking pots,sinks etc.) Im sure in the \"real world\" this is a piddeling amount of money, but Im sure the deal they made with the Foundation was quite generous, because thats how things were in those days. You kissed ass, you got stuff. You complained and you were ostercized and told, if you dont like it here, why dont you just leave. Well, I got to run. Im being bumped off here. Ill add more later Christine"}, {"response": 22, "author": "detwilerc", "date": "Sat, Apr 15, 2000 (11:11)", "body": "I notice that this site doesnt get hit very often. Oh well, I guess this is really doing me some good to say these things so I might as well finish even if no one else reads this except perhaps for you Terry. Id like to add a few more things in answer to why I was mad. I was mad about how some people who left the Farm blackmailed those behind by threatning to talk to authorities about things we agreed not to talk about and in return got vehicals. Also those who left the Farm and were allowed to sell the houses on the Farm (our legally common-owned houses) from a distance because their money had gone into said houses and they had pals on the board or at least were able to indimidate the board into allowing them to do that. Of course legally no one got to own a house prior to the coup but fairness and legality was not in operation at that time. It was who you knew, what you knew, and how good you were at psycologically bullying that mattered in those days. Also it makes me really mad to read comments bout how a big reason the farm failed was because some people were doing all the work and some folks were hardly working. I dont know Matthew McClure.( see item\"Why the Farm Failed\" ) He was one of those high holy hippies. At least I never saw him down at canning scrubbing compost buckets. But I definetely think hes a jerk and an apologist for a group of thieves. People had to work hard on the Farm because if you didnt youre household would be up into your thing on a daily basis and you wouldnt have a place to live if you didnt come up with it to be fair. I never saw many hard working people in my life as on the Farm. This lie about all the loafers on the Farm particulary pisses me off because so many of us were willing to do the menial never noticed dirty jobs and hard physical labor so guys like Albert (his highness Bates) could develope their personal dreams. I believe the New Firm folks use this lousy excuse so often as one of the reasons they needed to take over the Farm because its the numbe one reason capitolists, parents and other people of little faith give for why they think communes cant work,and they knew it would be readily believed.(though I think its bullshit) Im mad because I feel the property in TN was illegally stolen from my kid, from many hippy dreamers and visionaries in this generation, and unfortunately from probably seven generations to facilitate creating a planned community for the benefit of a few and their children. Of course if you remember your teachings the Farm is not a physical place. Also because everything that was done was quite illegal, maybe someday some Farm person with a good lawyer will be able to do something about what happened there. Im sure collectively we dissidents would have many stories that would help. I know suing the Farm sounds really square, but dont forget Ghandi was above all a lawyer and won most of the freedoms for people that he did through the courts, by insisting the law that was already there must be followed. So, by for now. I do ant to write about one more thing Im mad about if I dont get thrown off the spring. I appreciate the chance to do this.I actually feel like Im channeling or something. Hope someone writes back. Christine"}, {"response": 23, "author": "birdinflight", "date": "Wed, Dec 27, 2000 (12:11)", "body": "I have to agree with Christine on many things most especially about the hard working \"little people\" on the Farm. I was never a signed on member like her and I guess that was mainly because I didn't want to give up what little I had being a slum girl from the big city that never had too much growing up. But I did spend some time there from 1979 to about 1983 when all the bad stuff happened and some very close friends of mine that worked their butts off and were on the caravan, etc. were very hurt by the way everything unraveled. I still find it very hard to say anything negative about the Farm in general and people like Ina May in particular who I know to be a high and spiritual lady and a true revolutionary along the lines of Gandhi and Mother Teresa but then I never had any dealings with Stephen whatsoever and really only thought of him as Ina May's husband. lol I regret not one minute I ever spent on the Farm or with Farm folks and if I had it to do over I would probably spend more time there. Go ng there to have my children was the best thing I ever did and I treasure the memories more than I can express."}, {"response": 24, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Dec 28, 2000 (12:20)", "body": "\"all the bad stuff\"? What happened and what went wrong? And what could have happened differently for things to have turned out better?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "birdinflight", "date": "Sat, Jan 27, 2001 (21:40)", "body": "\"all the bad stuff\" the stuff that Christine was talking about which I wasn't really privy to, however, I take her word for her side of it. \"all the bad stuff\" is also the bad stuff I knew about personally like friends of mine that worked very hard doing all kinds of Farm stuff and when it reorganized they had to leave because they had been doing non-traditional jobs ON THE FARM instead of traditional 8 to 5 jobs with a paycheck. And I don't really know what could have happened differently for things to have turned out better, as I stated I was never a signed on member just a friend that observed various things. I have only the best feelings about the Farm myself as I also stated. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 10, "subject": "Roan Carratu's FarmLink Mailing List", "response_count": 3, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Apr  9, 1999 (11:53)", "body": "Message 10/370 From Roan Carratu Apr 8, 99 12:06:12 pm -0600 Mailing-List: ListBot mailing list contact Farmlink-help@listbot.com Delivered-To: mailing list Farmlink@listbot.com Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 12:06:12 -0600 X-Accept-Language: en To: \"ncnculture-l@newciv.org\" CC: ncndiscuss-l , Flemming Office , Farmlink , Julie Solheim Subject: fyi... Roan's heart condition X-SLUIDL: F878CDAC-EC2E11D2-82A50010-5A6ACCA7 FarmLink - http://www.bibbs.com/roan As some of you know, I have applied to both Social Security and the Veteran's Admin for disability. I didn't want to, since getting money from the Gov. can be the kind of hassle no activist wants, but I have been getting food stamps ever since my heart surgery, and they insisted I apply. This morning I went to get tested on a treadmill, to see if the ekg could give some evidence of my heart condition. (ekg has never shown my heart attacks, even when I went into the hospital with the big one which resulted in my bypass surgery.) Well, I really pushed it, using meditation techniques to run far more than most at faster speeds, trying to have a heart attack right there, with a doctor standing by. (What better place to have a heart attack than right in the hospital) but guess what... my ekg was great! I don't know if that means I am in better shape than I thought, or that like before, ekg just doesn't show the kind of heart attacks I had. Apparently it doesn't show certain kinds of heart attacks, but I think, considering how hard I worked at stressing it, that it might well be better than I thought. I am considering this a good sign, and am starting a exercise routine to further strengthen it. I might see the next millennium after all!! I have changed my diet to a basic lactos-vegetarian diet, and cut out all kinds of stuff I used to eat, which might be helping. With the prayers and good energy youall have been sending me, I think you are more than a little responsible for this strengthening. I know I felt you all when I was in the hospital, and your love has been a wonderful blessing. You have supported me with donations, love, and even gifts of vitamins and other good medicine. Flemming and Julie have employed me part time, and between you all, I feel like you have kept me alive. Thank you. I love you all! -- Peace and Long Life, ------------------------------- Roan Carratu Bodhisattva At Large Main Site: http://www.bibbs.com/roan Mirror sites: http://geodemocracy.webjump.com http://geocities.com/RainForest/Andes/3262 http://business.fortunecity.com/turnerst/232 Email: roan@bibbs.com roan@worldtrans.org worldmind@geocities.com Work: http://www.legionsoflight.com Work: http://seizethemagic.com"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Apr  9, 1999 (19:27)", "body": "I have added to my website ( http://www.bibbs.com/roan ) the NCF Mission Statement and Strategy Overview, a fairly comprehensive document crafted in 1997 by a group in the New Civilization Network, ( http://newciv.org ) when it was believed that a large sum of money was going to be donated to help us bring about a survivable society. The document is, in my opinion, one of the most important statements of directions and activities ever produced. While the donation was blocked by politics, the document helps those who wish to take the path of the Forerunner to find what they can do to further the effort in the world. Everyone has friends who feel much like they do, even we forerunners who are such a rarity in the world, (although that is changing) and many of the suggested courses of actions could be accomplished in local or regional areas by any group of friends who really wish to leave to their children a better, survivable world. I suggest you read it, and please don't hesitate to email me with any comments or changes you would like to see incorporated into the document. I will soon be setting up a list of people who want to either live in a Forerunner community or help start the Geonet in their local area. I don't expect an instant response, in that everything goes by the bell curve, which means even the best efforts start slowly and grow at increasing speeds. But if you are thinking of participating, please sign up and I will make sure you get connected with people of like mind. I want to thank the folks who have been writing me, and assure you that I will be answering you as time goes on. I have been quite overwhelmed by the responses I've been getting. With the conflicts in the news, the steady reports of environmental disaster, and the other indicators that we must wake up and take personal responsibility for the world, rather than leaving it to 'leaders', I think a great awakening is occurring around the world. If you were going to move a large stone, you would carefully shove it and with some effort to over come inertia, it would move. If you were going to move a large boulder, you would get some friends, and you would all shove it together, and slooowly, overcoming a lot more inertia, it would move. If you are going to move a planet, you get millions of people, all shoving together, and after a long intense effort, overcoming the inertia of a whole world, it too would move. Let's do something with our lives which is really outrageous... let's move the world together."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Feb  3, 2000 (09:12)", "body": "Wow, Roan dissappeared off the face of the earth. It would be nice to hear from the guy again! I wonder how his vast armada of websites is faring? farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 11, "subject": "Farm Net News", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (08:22)", "body": "I got my Winter 2000 issue of the Farm Net News from Karen Flaherty yesterday, \"whirling rainbow news and connecting all generations of the Farm Family\". Sylvia retired from doing it after 15 years. So this will give me something to comment on in these Farm topics for a bit. Karen lives in Tallahassee FL with her mom these days and is still pretty active with Plenty, the Farm's relief organization. She had to struggle with her first issue, with her aging computer crashing (the \"worst crash ever\"), her internet provider shifting addresses on her, and her travels to Domnica and other places. Space cadet turned MD Jack Wolf sent in an entertaining letter about his reefer experiences (\"I do know that if I continued taking joint breaks every two hours I'd still be wandering around the motor pool looking for my 1/2 socket instead of being able to help bring sanity and comfort to my fellow human beings.\"). He's supporting a Burmese family this month at his North Carolina home. Karen writes a Domnica report. She met up with Casta Calderon and Chuck Haren, who flew to Miami from Austin. They flew to the northeast coast of Dominica, home to the last durviving traces of the Carib race, where they met with the members of the Karifuna Tribal Council, a young group of community activists who Chuck had helped to get a grant from New England Biolabs. Karen met with womens groups from all over the island in another meeting. They're setting up a computer lab at the Waikada community center with donated computers. \"I satyed at the Bionics Women's Cooperative and Guesthouse, which as room enough for a dozen people with a small kitchen and bathroom. Resting in the hammock out the back porch, I thought about the people I'd met, and while gazing at gorgeous views down the mountains to the ocean, coconut palms swaying as seabreeze brings the afteroon rain, I could hear a mucical mosaic of drums, reggae radio, children singing and strains of Cher's latest song\" \".. if you beleive in love .. in love \" .. It was a wonderful blend of the sounds and spirit that emanate from Dominica, and reinforced the sense of being in a special place at a time with great potential for preservation, before globalization gobbles it up.\" - Karen Karens kids, Ellie and Satya, are both in Hawaii. Ellie is going to the Community College taking Environmental Science and Satya's in Paia watching dolphins swim. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 12, "subject": "Stephen Gaskin", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Dec  1, 2000 (07:48)", "body": "A good starting place: http://www.robotwisdom.com/jorn/gaskin.html farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 13, "subject": "Farm folks websites", "response_count": 14, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Dec 27, 2000 (05:52)", "body": "There I am, Ted Self, top left, 20 years ago, just before I moved to the farm in Summertown Tenn. I first started smoking pot and tripping in 1971, when I was 16. My dad found out I was tripping and gave me a beating. I hitch-hiked out west and ended up on Rainbow Family Tribe south of Eugene Oregon, with Garrick and about 50 others. Before eating we would all gather in a great circle and chant, many would chat OM. I asked a friend what is this OM? He said, \"Man, OM is like sending out love vibrations to every living being.\" I think we had the last of the pure LSD25 that year, and I had a nice guided meditation. I soon came back home to continue my education and started smoking and tripping with my dad, who obviously figured if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. We lived across the street from the local hippy hangout, Avondale Park, and on March 18,1973 Stephen Gaskin came with the Farm band for a gig. Soon dad and I started visiting the Farm often, and made lots of friends. Later in 1979 after dad died me and m first wife moved to the Farm. (Die hard hippies!) The farm was at that time billed as the worlds largest longhaired spiritual community, with around 1,300 folks living there. To attempt to join, one had to agree to certain guidelines including: No alcoholic beverages, no tobacco, no meat eating, no chemical drugs, no artificial birth control. Now I was a pothead and pot was hard to find, because the Farm had been busted, and you had to know someone to keep a supply of pot. Also my wife had went off the pill and her temperature chart was not working, so soon I realized, \"Here I am on a hippy commune and I have no drugs or sex!\" We soon left the farm. Two divorces and several years of drug (mostly cocaine) abuse later I decided I had had enough. Sick of friends who rip you off, sick of being afraid to see a cop in my rear-view mirror, sick of having no money, I decided to quit drugs. I got my guru to help me. I still respect the people of the tribes I have known, and I love them always, but I am reformed. To those who say drugs bring them closer to God I ask: \"And what happens when you die? Can you take drugs with you?\" Through the magic of computers I have found that I can do worthwhile things, like leading others to my Divine Guru, Sri Paramahansa Yogananda. I have put up many webpages and a message board dedicated to him. By the way, one of his meditation techniques teaches you to hear the inner sound of OM, and it is still like sending out love vibrations to every living being. It is inner communion, the voice of Divine Mother within. OM Guru, OM Shanti, Jai Guru, OM, peace."}, {"response": 2, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Dec 27, 2000 (05:57)", "body": "http://www.farmcatalog.com/"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 21, 2001 (13:16)", "body": "So What Happened?? at the 1999 Summer Solstice Hemp Happening? or My $30,000 Birthday Party I guess I should start with a short note on how and why the Sshh Freedom Festival came to be. As many of you know, I have been traveling the country, protesting at fairs court houses and campuses. Along the way as rewards for my hard work, I often stop and enjoy the festivals along the way, especially hempfests. While enjoying one of those festivals in Michigan, I wondered why don't we have one in Pennsylvania? Then I decided to take it upon myself to host Pennsylvania's first Hempfest. I selected my birthday as the best time for the fest and the Summer Solstice Hemp Happening was born. I began an internet campaign, gathering bands and potential concert goers. By February I was so busy making arrangements that I had to quit my job. I wanted to produce a flawless show, I came damn close and for that I want to thank all my friends, who helped out, and all those who came to the show. A very special thanks to my very close friends Diane and Terry, Samar and Ted, Jay and Susan, and my brothers Larry and Jeff. We pulled off a miracle, we ran a full scale production with only 8 people. Thanks I love you all. The rest of the Thank yous... The Summer Solstice Hemp Happening was expected be a gathering of the peaceful tribes, of the earth people, the politically disenfranchised, and the people feeling oppressed by their government, and the system, a classic freedom Festival. It was to be a festival of community sharing, loving and planetary service. Add to the solstice celebration, sun, fun, music, and activist speakers covering everything from activism, itself, as a right as well as a duty to voting, petitioning , peaceful methods of protesting , freedom, earth issues and the threads of the hemp movement and you have the recipe for interesting weekend. I arrived a few days early, help cut firewood and set up my command post at Tune Town. Last minute details kept me busy all week. People started showing up as early as wednesday, The first groups through the gate were from Florida and Colorado, I thought to myself this is going to be huge. Only six of my \"workers\" came in thursday, I was a bit worried about security. By Thursday night we had 50 or 60 people already, plenty enough for a party and party we did. I spent most of my time friday manning the front gate. Some people were shocked and amazed to be greeted by John Galt jr himself at the front gate. I asked them, who else other than the host, would serve in such a position? By friday night, we had seen cars pass through from New York, Alabama, Tennessee, Ohio, Indiana, Iowa and Michigan. One group had hitch hiked in from Vermont, another from New Hampshire. With less than 200 through the gate, I began to wonder where all my friends from Pa. had gotten to... The bands began to arrive in the late afternoon, Stephen Gaskin wasn't far behind. A few minutes before 5 o'clock, I fired up the show by introducing my friends \"Pauli and Kelli\", who wooed the crowd with traditional folk songs as well as some originals. I then gave a short introduction to sshh, what it was about, what the rules of the park were and the like. Next up 7pm was Harvest Moon, who did an hour set of Neil Young classics. I then gave a speech on what I felt was important to the future of the planet. Next up was Diane Fornbacher Aka Honeybud Weedwhacker and Hightimes Freedom Fighter of the month for January 1999. Diane did her \"Marijuana Poetry\" and then gave a short speech. 9pm viperHouse took the stage and blew the crowd away, because most of them had never heard of this nine piece jazz band, with an electric violin, throaty vocals and danceable groove sound. After viperHouse, Stephen Gaskin Aka Saint Stephen from the Grateful song, gave his speech on Cannabis Spirituality, and then tried to stea"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 21, 2001 (13:19)", "body": "steal my thunder, by jumping into his campaign for President. At 11pm Smokescreen took the stage and finished off the night with a set of classic rock from the 70's and 80's. The party went on all night long. Saturday June 19th. We fired the stage up bright and early, the Ben Swift band took the stage at 11am. After a rocking set Diane Fornbacher spoke again, followed by Marvin Marvin Surowitz of the P.A.R.T.I.E. Party. Marvin talked about looking to the future and the challenges of the new millennium. Next up Larry Goya of Quantum Monkey, talked about the 100th monkey phenomena and the many uses of industrial hemp. Dogtown Road took the stage next with some soulful rock and roll. I spoke next and staying on the what is important theme gave this speech. Next Allset, an amazing jam band from Boston did an awesome two hour set. Then my best friend and companion Sehlis made her debut as a speaker, she talked about voting rights, disenfranchisement and the importance of voting. Next up was Samar Hatem (who I had introduced as Samar Lovejoy, damn women always changing their names...)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 21, 2001 (13:23)", "body": "Samar took on the recreational value of the sacred herb and continued into what's wrong with the war on drugs. It was now 6pm but Electric Blue and the Kosmic Truth was no where in site. Steven and Marvin and Diane took over the stage until we got some replacement music. One of the guitar players from Dogtown road did an acoustic set. Then all hell broke lose as the Cannabis Cup Band took the stage with Reggae as only the Cannabis Cup Band can. Stephen then again took the stage, and mystified the crowd with his gentle, loving and caring philosophies. Next up \"In the Flesh\" just another Pink Floyd tribute?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 21, 2001 (13:24)", "body": "That's what we all thought, but they proved us wrong by doing the most incredible Floyd set anyone in this crowd had ever seen. They finished up just before midnight, so I took the stage, told the crowd the Disco Biscuits still hadn't arrived and passed out some free stuff from the stage. I then began my speech about my run for the presidency. At this point I knew we hadn't had anywhere's enough people through the gate to pay for this show, but I decided to have some fun. Someone in the crowd asked if I inhaled, I said I did and a pipe was passed onto the stage. I took the pipe and said \"Gee I never did this before\" Someone cried out yeah right. I replied \"No really I have never smoked a bowl on stage in front of a crowd before\". Hoots and hollers followed. I inhaled deeply and someone said exhale into the mike. I did and it was a really cool sound so we did it a couple more times."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 21, 2001 (13:24)", "body": "A short intro for Electric Blue and the Kosmic Truth (who had arrived a couple hours late) and most of the crowd were so blown away, that the Disco Biscuits were not missed by many. At 2am the stage was shut down for night and my friend Jeff from Chicago cranked up his kick ass Stereo with some Zeppelin and the party continued with no end in site. Having slept an average of three hours a night for the past 4 days, I moved into the back stage trailer, for a sound sleep. However as I fell asleep I swore I heard the Disco Biscuits playing. I thought, Damn Jeff's stereo is good. In the morning, some people claimed the Disco Biscuits showed up at 3am and played until the sun came up? Did it really happen? Was it a mass Hallucination? Well one guy I ran into swore Pink Floyd did a set the night before, so I just don't know what happened while I slept... So what happened Sunday? I got up early, roamed around the campground and mixed with all the remaining souls. I passed out free stuff and listened to all the comments about love, kindness and good feelings we had all experienced. Everybody in the crowd said I give a kick ass party and they had received way way more than they had bargained for... We passed the hat to help cover expenses, many kind souls threw in amounts ranging from $2 to $50. The party continued, drums were beat upon and ... The hundred or so of us who stuck around, got together and decided that those who had not attended should not know what happened on Sunday. The rest of the world missed that loving caring, sharing day, those of us who were there will cherish those memories for the rest of our lives... Letters from people who attended Another report from a friend..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 21, 2001 (13:26)", "body": "SSHH 99 Letters John, I was Fortunate enough to attend The SSHH Festival last year in 1999. I had a Blast!!!! We are planning to attend this year as well!!! Although, there wasn't as many people as I expected, and the Disco Bisquits didn't show up, but for as many people we had there, we made the best of it. I will never forget that time!!!! Mr. Gault, You might have lost a little $ over that whole deal, But the times I had there are unforgettable. Since then, I have moved to Las Vegas with my Girlfriend. But, I will make a point to attend the SSHH festival again this year! Diamond Ray To: JohnG101 Hi! I'm, Naomi, one of the two girls who came to the festival from Philadelphia. You might remember us-we got there really early. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that we had a great time at the festival, and I hope you do it again next year. Everyone I talked to there also said that they were having fun and that they would definitely do it again next year. I have one suggestion for getting more people to know about it. I got about four or five flyers for other similar festivals this year from some of the vendors, and maybe if you just printed a bunch out and gave them to vendors who are traveling to other festivals, they could distribute them to people who are interested in the cause. Also, you could just give flyers to people who are going to various protests, gatherings, concerts, etc. Just an idea."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 21, 2001 (13:26)", "body": "Well, I hope that you were able to have a good time despite the small number of people. I really enjoyed it, and, because there weren't all that many people, we got to meet and talk with just about everyone there. Just one more thing...I really admire you and everyone who worked on the festival and all of the awesome bands (those who showed up!) and speakers for working so hard and being so dedicated to the cause. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help out. Maybe we'll run into you on July 4th or somewhere else. Good luck in all future endeavors. ~Peace~ Naomi John and Sue, How do you do!? We had an absolute BLAST at the shindig- What's the deal with the financial gouge- are you set up as a non-profit? Would you like some of my stickers? I probally should have left some for you... Are you going to be going to any of the HAPPENINGS? We are from Kalamazoo Michigan, , but hopefully we will be in touch and see each other before roach roast. Let us know if there is any way we can help you all with what you're going. Love, peace and plenty of happy green nugs to you two, Elizabeth John, Too Cool. I had a great time. You should do it again... . Jay John, Just wanted to let you know that my wife and I really enjoyed the concert this weekend. Don't be discouaraged by the small turnout, your message still got out. Hope your able to do it again next year. Thank you. Peace, Redeyes Mr. Galt: First off, I want to congratulate you on putting together the Freedom Festival. From what I gathered from the web page print-out I recieved, you pretty much did it all yourself. Stellar work! I've reviewed the footage we shot last weekend, and it's pretty good considering the short notice and low audience levels at the time we were there. I don't know if you do any more of these festivals, but we would be interested in professionally filming/documenting events like the one last weekend in the future. Enjoy the ride! Dave Station019, Congradulations on a succesful festival. I will definately be sending in a donation, and hope to participate in many more. If you need any help organizing next years or could use another super band, just send me an email. Peace, Erykaa Forwarded from Sehlis Hi. I just want to tell you that I really enjoyed the festival and so did the two boys that I traveled with. Please tell John Galt. I am very sorry that you two lost so much money and I wish I had money to give you. The purpose of this letter (besides to tell you that I had a great time) is to tell you that I'm a girl. Let me explain: I read your view of the festival and I noticed that you wrote about me and friends and how we hitchhiked from Vermont. My two friends are boys and I'm a girl, you wrote that all three of us were boys. No big deal, I'm used to it because of my name. Just thought you'd like to know. The journey was half the adventure too. This was my first time hitchhiking (not so for the boys) so I was a little nervous but very excited. We met some really cool people and one guy even bought us lunch because we had no money. This whole adventure has made me realize that although there are a lot of mean people in the world, the love generated by all the kind people outshines all the anger. Thank you and John for inspiring me to make this journey, physically and spiritually. Breathe deep and seek peace. Love Morgan"}, {"response": 10, "author": "jidanni", "date": "Sat, Oct 13, 2001 (03:15)", "body": "Hi, I lived in the Adobe, bunkhouse, and Dome, from Apr to Dec 1977. My website is http://www.geocities.com/jidanni/ I now live in Taiwan. I was born in 1960. I think you need a table of houses vs. years people can register with to find old friends --- a on line database."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Oct 13, 2001 (08:39)", "body": "That's a great idea Dan, we're building up some databases on this system. What are your memories of the Adobe? I had to struggle with your web page because of the mixture of fonts, languages and symbols, how about and choice of languages to see your page in. I could tell there was some good content there, but it was hard to get through these barriers. I don't know if html tidy and html validator have done the trick. Maybe it's because I was reluctant to download the language plug in when I opened your page?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Oct 13, 2001 (08:41)", "body": "I got a kick out of your exploits with gnu and emacs and being windows free."}, {"response": 13, "author": "jidanni", "date": "Sun, Oct 14, 2001 (19:07)", "body": "Thanks, and thanks for your e-mail notification else i don't think i would have checked back soon... Hmmm, i thought i made a \"valid\" page with stuff... yes, but true it is in \"big5\" Chinese as well as english... I don't have much fun with netscape on this spring website... now i'm using lynx [no graphic though]. OK, i especially remember Wade who oiled[!] the roads, David Brown of the compost crew, Valery Dyess, Rain & Agnes... oh boy many. I was hot on mapping farm boundaries. Anyway, a simple row x columns table of years vs. houses connected to a database where people could click several boxes & register/search... would be nice to find old friends. OK thanks"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Oct 14, 2001 (20:15)", "body": "Would you like to help set this up? Do you have database admin skills? farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 14, "subject": "Farm Band", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Dec 28, 2000 (11:05)", "body": "Wow, what an idea. The Farm Band on Napster. I liked your website Ted, I noticed a picture of Nick Rizzo (who died last year) and Susan. What is this picture? farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 15, "subject": "History of Sonoma County Communes", "response_count": 12, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Mar 16, 2001 (12:21)", "body": ""}, {"response": 2, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Mar 16, 2001 (12:22)", "body": "Message 3/4 From Steve Bjerklie Mar 16, 01 06:30:35 AM -0700 Return-Path: X-Sender: stevebj@mail.well.com (Unverified) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 06:30:35 -0700 To: terry@well.com Subject: 1996 story on history of communes in Sonoma County, Part I X-UIDL: f37165aa397ff5c09be9eeeff78110bc Terry, Following is the story I reported and wrote for the then-named Sonoma County Independent. This version is a bit longer and more complete than what appeared it print; it's very long in any case, so I'm sending it to you in two parts. Please don't hesitate to make comments or ask me questions about the material. Best regards, /Steve ___________ Sowing the Seeds of Eden: Utopias, Communes, and the Search for a Better Way in Sonoma County by Steve Bjerklie The best in man can flourish only when he loses himself in the community. --Albert Einstein Dave Henson is so enthusiastic about what he does and how he lives, he... zings. He reminds me of a G-string plucked in an open tuning: everything around him resonates in the harmonic. There's a bit of irony in this, because when I first pulled in to the Occidental Art & Ecology Center and saw Henson heaving pine branches into the back of a pickup I thought he was hired help. Earlier I'd talked to Dave on the phone--polite, friendly--but didn't expect to meet someone who's so, well, vibrant. Henson's one of those people who seems to spend most of his waking hours outside of himself. At various points in our conversation he drums a table, dives his hands into dark, sun-warmed loam just to feel its goodness, and waves broadly at the sky and at trees as if grand-marshaling a parade. \"The primary dynamic of the universe,\" he tells me, \"is the relationship between individuality and community.\" He speaks in rushes of words; my notes from the conversation are scribbled blurts: \"social strug is bout being alive\"; \"so few able pull off\"; \"strong base, empower spot--\"; \"hallmarks of dem'cracy\"; \"don't want to isolate ourselves.\" He punctuates every sentence with what I've come to call \"the '60's tick\"--a slight, sharp jag of the head to toss hair out of the eyes. Henson's spilling words about \"process, the really hard work of a community\" like water over a dam when a happy, stunning woman named Kenda, who trails behind her a streamer of soft brown hair from out of the back of a baseball cap, comes up to the weather-worn picnic table where Dave and I are talking and opens her hands. A small yellow-and-black striped beetle meanders toward her thumb. \"Listen,\" she says softly. She's right: you can actually hear the bug, a tiny low buzz. \"Isn't that something?\" she marvels, and we agree. The bug inspires Henson, who's wearing a faded orange t-shirt (\"cotton but not organic, unfortunately\") with no advertising on it, not even for a rock band, and dusty khakis with leather work gloves waving from a back pocket, to swerve in a new direction. \"The natural world is our model. No one part dominates the system. Every time something new is introduced, the system adapts to it, or around it. The model, of course, has its limits. Nature takes no prisoners. We assume the need to operate collectively.\" He tosses back his straight, coppery, Tom Petty hair. Henson's face and arms are teak-tan from being outdoors most of the time. \"It's a great place for everybody to explode and actualize themselves.\" The thought reminds me of something I'd heard earlier the same morning from Michael Black, the Sebastopol architect: \"Our society has a need for real community. We need to stress the importance of openness and telling the truth,\" he tells me in the living room of the pleasant, quiet home he shares with his wife Alexandra. \"We're trying to form in our community a real extended family, a collection of diverse people with diverse needs and backgrounds who can share and teach each other. The Balinese have a phrase for it, suka duka. `Laugh together, cry together.'\" The outside table at which Henson and I sit, talk, and drink chilled water freshened with mint leaves, is parked at roughly the epicenter of the Occidental Art and Ecology Center, Henson's home and job. The Center is one of the newest efforts in Sonoma County to create a new kind of human community, one in balance with the environment, spiritual disciplines, individuality, freedom, and the concept of extended family--Utopia, in a word. If Henson is a kind of utopian free-jazz improviser, Michael Black is his classically trained counterpart. Black and a group of friends are in the process of procuring permits for another kind of Utopia, what they call \"cohousing,\" in Sebastopol on Robinson Road. What Henson seems slightly aware of and Black only a bit more so is that local history is abundant with serious attempts to create Utopia in Sonoma County, dating back to the 1870s. Utopianism and the search for a better way to live cut a swath through Sonoma County history as wide and well-traveled as Highway 101. Why Sonoma? Fertile and affordable (until recently, a"}, {"response": 3, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Mar 16, 2001 (12:25)", "body": "Nothing's for certain It could always go wrong Come in when it's raining Go on out when it's gone We could have us a high time living the good life Well, I know --Robert Hunter, \"High Time\" On assignment for Harper's Magazine, Sara Davidson walked into a bar in Occidental one night and asked for directions to Wheeler Ranch. \"Heads turned,\" she wrote later. \"People froze, drinks in hand. A woman with an expressionless, milky face said, `Honey, there isn't any sign. You just go up the road six miles and there's a gate on the left. Then you have to drive a ways to git to it. From where I live you can see their shacks and what have you. But you can't see anything from the road.'\" That was in 1970. In 1996, Bill Wheeler strolls into the saloon at the Union Hotel in Occidental to meet me for a beer, and if he's not exactly the star of the room he's certainly everyone's best old friend. The beers are quickly poured from the tap. Bill's lawyer and the lawyer's family unexpectedly show up--there are hugs, laughs, jokes, and invitations from Bill to come out for the annual May Day party at the ranch. \"You mean like we used to, dancing naked around the Maypole?\" the lawyer, who fills out a lawyerly dark blue suit with a chest grown by success, asks. \"Nah, Bill, I can't...I mean, can you see me doing that now?\" Hearty laughs refill the saloon. The first thing Wheeler says to me is, \"I'm not a teacher, I'm not a leader, I wasn't anyone's guru.\" He drapes himself across a chair at my table like a bearskin rug; he's dressed in thick, hard-working clothes torn in the legs. He looks like a cedar. \"It was all an accident of history.\" From 1967 until 1973, Wheeler Ranch west of Occidental (five miles, not six, on Coleman Valley Road) was Sonoma County's second great experiment in open-land communalism. Bill Wheeler simply opened his 320-acre property up to anyone who wanted live there. The population eventually reached 400, including cows and horses. Besides dozens of flower children from San Francisco and elsewhere, the community hosted a few runaways, ex-cons, and soldiers AWOL from Vietnam. Residents lived in tents, shacks, and lean-to's angled out like parasails from redwood stumps. There were absolutely no rules. Whatever happened at Wheeler happened because an individual or a couple or a group on the ranch was in the mood for it to happen. Neighbors and authorities, fed by media alarms about the whole countercultural movement, worried that mostly what was happening was a lot of sex and drugs. \"It was a social experiment that couldn't last,\" Wheeler, who insists he's but a humble landscape artist, explains. \"I knew from the beginning it couldn't last. But it was the closest thing that came to the forming of a tribe, to people relating on a new tribal level.\" He sips his beer. With a Moses-like forehead, a nose like a battleship prow and dense, foliant eyes, Bill is what used to be called \"ruggedly handsome,\" in the way Mt. Whitney or Mt. McKinley are ruggedly handsome. \"The problem was, we assaulted the traditional sense of private property.\" The accident part of the history is that Wheeler opened his ranch after county sheriff's deputies driving bulldozers invaded his friend Lou Gottlieb's Morning Star Ranch. Morning Star refugees were the first communal Wheeler Ranch residents. Gottlieb, a member and musical director of the early '60s folk-pop group The Limeliters, had bought the 32-acre property on Graton Road in 1962 (the year Bill Wheeler graduated from Yale with an art degree) originally as a get-away and retreat. In 1966, along with some friends including Ramon Sender and Ben (now Roland) and Rain Jacopetti, he opened the land to all comers. In part II of an amazing six-part series titled \"The Happiness People\" published in early summer, 1967, in the Press-Democrat, Gottlieb explained his philosophy for Morning Star: \"The people here are the first wave of an ocean of technologically unemployables. The cybernation is in its early snowball stages.\" (Really, he used the word \"cybernation\" in 1967. Prescient.) Showing P-D reporter Dick Torkelson around the ranch, Gottlieb said, \"This is Utopia, folks. You never thought you'd see it. If you find a better way, then I'll do it your way.\" He added: \"This is an experiment in lowest-cost housing. The 16-inch stud makes life duller than it has to be. We call it Shanti-town--get it?\" (The article also provides some wonderful, only-in-the-'60s quotes. At one point Gottlieb asked Torkelson if he'd ever tripped, and when Torkelson said no the old Limeliter advised, \"Not to try one of the psychedelics is comparable to not reading Freud or not learning mathematics.\") It couldn't last, of course. Less than three weeks after the \"Happiness People\" series ran, the P-D reported, \"Morning Star's Gottlieb Arrested on Health Charge.\" The ranch's story unfolds in headlines: 7/9/67: \"Planners Ponder Way to Restrict Hippies\" 8/14/67: \"Gunfire Erupts at Hippie Ranch\" 9/8/67: \"Is Gottlieb's H"}, {"response": 4, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Mar 16, 2001 (12:27)", "body": "I had to scribble my first response because it was part two and I wanted to have these two pieces in order. Comments, I have some later."}, {"response": 5, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Mar 20, 2001 (12:07)", "body": "Each May 1st Wheeler's has a Maypole festival, which is a combo party and nostalgia gathering of the tribes. Bill says folks are welcome \"if they can find it\"."}, {"response": 6, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Mar 20, 2001 (22:23)", "body": "Directions: about 5mils west on Coleman Valley Roac, Occidental. Wheler's is the driveway on the left BEFORE Oceansong. There is no more sign or any other indication these days..You will probably see other cars parked,and you will have to walk abot a mile down the hill.Keep in touch with me if you like. (I dont know if all the class would want to come) but like you I have an interest in community and these folks have some great stories!!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May  4, 2001 (00:47)", "body": "I just went to Oceansong for the big Earthday celebration and here are the pictures: http://www.wholetech.com/oceansong"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 23, 2001 (11:48)", "body": "A link I got from Ramon Sender Baryon: Meanwhile, those of you interested in commune history might want to check out the recently created 150+ photo site: http://www.imaginationwebsites.com/wheelersranch.html"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 23, 2001 (11:48)", "body": "... Barayon ... http://www.imaginationwebsites.com/wheelersranch.html"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, May 26, 2001 (14:44)", "body": ""}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, May 27, 2001 (10:24)", "body": "I've updated the Oceansong pictures of the Earth Day Celebration near Occiidental, CA: http://www.wholetech.com/oceansong"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun 13, 2001 (20:03)", "body": "This year's lineup; Hog Farm Labor Day PigNic at the Black Oak Ranch, Laytonville, Mendocino County, CA on Saturday and Sunday, September 1 and 2. This year's line-up: Friday night campground stage: STEVIE B DYSFUNCTION FRIEDA'S CIRCUS THE STOKEMEN Saturday FEEDBACK GREGG'S EGGS PETE SEARS AND THE DAWN PATROL ERIC BIBB NEW ORLEANS KLEZMER ALL STARS KARL DENSON'S TINY UNIVERSE STEVE KIMOCK BAND GALACTIC Saturday late night in the campground: THE VENUSIANS Sunday DIANE PATTERSON LED KA'APANA & CYRIL PAHINUI CASPER LOMAYESVA - HOPILAND REGGAE TUBESTEAK JONES LOST AT LAST YONDER MOUNTAIN STRING BAND THOMAS MAPFUMO & THE BLACKS UNLIMITED STEVE KIMOCK BAND MC: Wavy Gravy. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 16, "subject": "Ragweed", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 28, 2001 (10:26)", "body": "Tuesday July 3 8 AM - The Buffalo River Canoe - We had to switch from Wednesday for obvious reasons. Meet at the Head of the Roads 8 AM Wednesday July 4 7AM - 8:15 Yoga - at Deborah DeVoursney's studio - $5 5 K Run - Loretto, TN Swimmin' Hole Barbecue 8 PM Fireworks - at the Gazebo Thursday July 5 Yoga - 7AM - 8:15 at Deborah DeVoursney's studio - $5 Community Project Work Day 7 AM - Early Risers Painting Party at 7 Nations, coffee and breakfast provided, 2nd brunch at 10 AM 3 PM Workshop - Creating Jobs and Employment Opportunities for a Rural Lifestyle - at the Community Center 6:30 PM All Farm Community Dinner - a benefit for The Farm School and the Plenty Pine Ridge project! 8 PM The Acoustic Cafe - at the Community Center, including Phil Schweitzer, Babes in The Woods, Alan and Bono Graf, and others Friday July 6 Yoga - 7AM - 8:15 at Deborah DeVoursney's studio - $5 9 AM Swan Trust Walk 12 Noon Ragweed Open Golf Tournament - Meet at Head of the Roads 12 Noon Tee Time 1PM Summertown Dixie Oaks Golf Course 2:30 PM The New Home Tour - Meeting at The Head of the Roads A visit to 6 new homes with discussion on house sites, financing and future ideas. 5:30 PM Highland Woods Meeting - Stockholders 5:30 PM, Landowners 6:00 PM 6 PM Farm School Open House - 6 PM Home Movies - Community Center Videos from days gone by including the long lost 60 Minutes with Jack Wolf 6:30 Dinner Served at the Community Center 8 PM Contra Dancing 10 PM DJ Spin Down Saturday July 7 Blueberry Breakfast - Been up all night? We hope they 're ripe. 10 AM Women's Circle: First Road Meadow 10 AM Men's Circle: 3:00-5:30 Basketball - Store Area 6 PM Nevi the Wonder Dog - tricks by Autumn Trainor's champion canine - at the Soccer Field Swan Trust Silent Auction - inside the Solar School - Bring something to add to the auction, make a bid! Good stuff. 5:30 PM Huichol Center Slide Show - A report from Susana Valadez on her life with the Huichol Indians of Mexico Music 7 PM Space Cadets - Cindy DeVoursney, Ryan Clark, Woody Eaton 8 PM THB The Homegrown Band - Lenny and Mike Cramer, Otis Maley, 9:30 PM The TVP Players - A Farm Romance in 3 Acts 10 PM Ladies Acapella Choir 10:20 PM Leader of the Pack 10:30 PM D.O.G.: Bobbie Bonnickson and Sylvia Tepper 11 PM Liquid Light Show 11:15 PM Strut - With special guest Tony ' Dee' Dixon performing songs from his 'Brother's Keeper' CD. 1:30 AM Sunrise Jammin' - with Joe Dixon Sunday July 8 10 AM Meditation - First Road Meadow 12:30 PM Memorial Services at the Cemetery - 2:30 Head of the Roads Bench Project- Come help create a tile mosaic ferro cement bench. 2:30 Acoustic Jam at the Gazebo - All times and events subject to change Currently there are no plans for a talent show on Friday night. If you have a talent and would like to perform please let us know. We may have room for a few things between acts on Saturday night or there may be other times/places that we will have available. e-mail: Douglas@villagemedia.com This is a family event. While we respect everyone's right to bring someone as their invited guest, we do try to discourage people from bringing in visitors who haven't lived here in the past. Please respect everyone's wishes to keep this a Farm reunion. Pricing Prepay by June 15 save $5!!! Just subtract $5 of each prepaid adult or child admission. Call 931-964-2590 or 931-964-3574 to pay by credit card. Mail checks to Village Media, PO BOX 259, Summertown, TN 38483 Arrival before July 5 and through July 8 - $30 (prepay $25) Friday, Saturday, Sunday - $20 (prepay $15) 16 and Under - $10 (prepay $5) farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 17, "subject": "The opposite of Stephen and the Farm?", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul  9, 2001 (10:44)", "body": "There are quite a few Amaachi people around Austin, mostly living out in Radiance in the Hill Country. She comes to Dallas fairly often to do her gig, and I think she's been to Austin. Their fervor is pretty amazing, like that of the Farm folks in the early days. I did a search on the web and only found one single reference to Amaachi which is surprising, so this must not be the correct spelling, but here it is because it's flavorful (and excerpt): Many in the crowd have only Amaachi's incredible feast of bhajan and enormous hugs as a point of reference. After a long meditation, Shree Maa, who has the voice of a diva, starts to sing. The Bhava Dude band, composed of a harmonium, electric and accoustic guitars, synthesizer and drums joins in. The sound can only be described as somewhere between a heavenly choir and Blind Willy Thorton. Shree Maa's and Swami's sense of humor loosen up the crowd and people get the idea that it's okay to have fun. This spiritual path is definitely not about being a humorless, uptight yogi. People start getting up and dancing and pretty soon the gathering has the quality of a Southern Baptist revival. At the end of the evening, each person reverently bows to Shree Maa and receives her tilik blessing. http://www.web-alive.com/dm/html/story_by_mahavir.html"}, {"response": 2, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Mon, Jul  9, 2001 (11:31)", "body": "Here's the website http://www.ammachi.org/ , that link you have is someone else, Ammachi is even cooler that her. The vibes WERE just like the old Farm days, and Ammachi's realization isn't really different in it's manifestation to Stephen's either. She's big into charities, just like the Farm is. I guess \"real\" realization is always the same, like he said \"meet one buddha, met em all\", tho some of these people sure manifest in some weird ways, like Adi Da, or Rajneesh. Guess that's why some gurus have told certain students NOT to teach. Purity is important in a guru. Or at least cleanliness, haha. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 18, "subject": "Saints, gurus, and avatars", "response_count": 11, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 19, 2001 (10:05)", "body": "Where does Ammachi headquarter her operations? Does she have ashrams or centers around and about?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Thu, Jul 19, 2001 (10:15)", "body": "Hey, you never answered me when I asked if you preferred Paul or Terry? I presume Terry since it's your post handle, eh? Her main ashram is in India, there's centers all over the world. I went to one in the bay area in 1992, I went there to tag along with this lady I was on a \"date\" with. Talk about a bad date :-( But anyways, here's the website, http://www.ammachi.org/ She reminds me of when Stephen was talking about seeing Satchidananda and saying that Satch gave a genuine spiritual experience and that's what I felt from seeing Ammachi. 26 years later and I'm still a dharma bum. Guess it's a permanent affliction :-) Wazzup, Terry?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 19, 2001 (10:20)", "body": "Terry is cool. How's you web day going, Don?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Thu, Jul 19, 2001 (11:27)", "body": "Doing good. Do you post from work also?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Thu, Jul 19, 2001 (11:58)", "body": "Hey Terry, you quoted Matthew as saying - People who had previously thought of Stephen as a living Buddha began to question his realization. I think that was the big one, actually. What's your take on that? Did you ever think Stephen was a living Buddha? I know I did in 1976, but over the years I've come to see that awakening and enlightenment are two things. Enlightenment is the actualization of awakening. So, I still feel Stephen is awakened, and over the years, just from reading the history, it seems sometimes he actualized it, sometimes not. About as well as any I've heard of though. He definitely mostly walks his talk, it seems, but then I never really got to know him personally. What's your take on that?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 19, 2001 (14:01)", "body": "I thought he was brilliant at leading people, inspiring people, and synthesizing all of the worlds religious streams. He learned well from S. I. Hayakawa. Living Buddha, nope. But great, inspiring leader, yes."}, {"response": 7, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Thu, Jul 19, 2001 (14:41)", "body": "I thought he was brilliant at leading people, inspiring people, and synthesizing all of the worlds religious streams. He learned well from S. I. Hayakawa. Living Buddha, nope. But great, inspiring leader, yes. -I agree, but how about the awakened part as opposed (can you have this in non-duality?) to unawakened? And I'll qualify this by saying my definition of the difference between an awakenend dude or dudette is the perfecting of all of one's actions, otherwise there's no difference."}, {"response": 8, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Thu, Jul 19, 2001 (14:43)", "body": "Damn! screwed it up and didn't read it before posting, heh, here's what I meant to say I thought he was brilliant at leading people, inspiring people, and synthesizing all of the worlds religious streams. He learned well from S. I. Hayakawa. Living Buddha, nope. But great, inspiring leader, yes. -I agree, but how about the awakened part as opposed (can you have this in non-duality?) to unawakened? And I'll qualify this by saying my definition of the difference between an awakenend dude or dudette and one who has attained buddhahood is the perfecting of all of one's actions, otherwise there's no difference."}, {"response": 9, "author": "mexicana", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 2003 (02:36)", "body": "I think the Dalai Lama is a living Buddha."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 2003 (05:52)", "body": "A lot of people share that view, including William Meyers and Richard Gere. http://www.spring.net/wmmeyers/dalailam.html"}, {"response": 11, "author": "mexicana", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 2003 (02:38)", "body": "As I said in another topic here, I think Stephen is a bodhisattva. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 19, "subject": "Looking for email chatters", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul 30, 2001 (13:06)", "body": "terry@spring.net"}, {"response": 2, "author": "mexicana", "date": "Sat, Feb 15, 2003 (03:59)", "body": "Yeah, he's a bodhisattva, maybe a Buddha too. Not a day passes that I don't think of him and what he and others on the Farm taught me. Also, I see it in my daughter with her own daughters now..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "mexicana", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 2003 (01:51)", "body": "Hello? Is anybody out there? Hey, if you let me know you're there I'll tell you about a dream I had with Stephen, Suzuki Roshi, and Master Hua..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 2003 (04:52)", "body": "I can't wait Laurie, please tell us your dream! farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 2, "subject": "How I heard about the Farm", "response_count": 34, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Tue, Jan 27, 1998 (13:59)", "body": "Lived close to the Farm, all my life. It's been great to have such friendly neighbors!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "arba", "date": "Tue, Jan 27, 1998 (13:59)", "body": "Well what can I say? I was doing my \"military service\" in the civil life! In Sweden,where I live,I`d rejected to do \ufffdthe Military Duty\ufffd,and had the good fortune to work in a library in a town `bout 80km from my hometown, Hudiksvall.On the train to my work,I met a person that gave me a little blue paperback pocketbook that Stephen once had edited(very far out)! That person,can`t remember his name,had visited The Farm in the early -70:s. After that I tryed to look/hear about \"The Farm\" everywhere.Liked Stephens idea of how to live a good life!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 29, 1998 (17:28)", "body": "I was living in San Francisco when I first heard about Monday night class from a friend and started attending the sessions at the Family Dog on the Pacific Highway. Then I moved to Minneapolis to take a job as a city planner and part time running a yoga/tai chi studio. One day, just by happenstance, I saw a 2 inch article in the Minneapolis paper saying the Caravan was heading to Minneapolis for a gig on Halloween. This little article jumped out at me and stirred up my feelings for Stephen and the Monday Night class group. So I went out and bought a used schoolbus, \"rv\"ed it up, and asked some of my friends (Michael Flaherty, karen Sharkey and Barbie) if they wanted to come along. Off we went to join up with the Caravan in Kansas City . . . . . . but I'm getting way ahead, I'll save the rest for another yet to be named topic about folks experiences on the Farm."}, {"response": 4, "author": "paxzen", "date": "Sat, Jan 31, 1998 (16:27)", "body": "I first heard of the Farm when I was pregnant with my first child. A friend gave me a copy of the book, 'Spiritual Midwifery\". What an experience!! Someday, I hope to become a part of an intentional community."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 31, 1998 (16:54)", "body": "Glad you checked in Linda, what kind of intentional community, what are your requirements?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "paxzen", "date": "Mon, Feb  2, 1998 (05:36)", "body": "My requirement would be to live with people who could love and respect me no matter how wacky I am. Music and dancing would be practiced. They would let me work in their garden (and maybe give me a little on the job training!)I am looking for a place where life is more important than accumulation of material possessions."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb  3, 1998 (08:48)", "body": "Just how wacky are you? Just kidding! These are the ideals many of us sought when we came to the Farm. Material possessions do seem to dominate modern day life, I know I get caught up in this and forget the truly important things in life. Hope some other folks will check in and let us know how they heard about the Farm. And I can think of a lot of topics that I'd like to add to this conference, but I'll restrain myself for now and hope that others will come along and start these up. Hope you keep checking back in with us Linda."}, {"response": 8, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Wed, Feb 25, 1998 (18:28)", "body": "Hey, Linda! Would you believe, I am thinking of moving to The Farm, temporarily, still? I only live about 25 miles from The Farm, right now, and, well...I spend so much time there - I'm unemployed right now (and lovin' it!) and, I would just like to get the \"feel\" of living there and sharing ideas and experiences with the community. You know, you're never too old to try something new, especially when it's for a good cause. I, too,like Terry says, have to remind myself that materialism isn't better than the truly important things in life!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb 25, 1998 (19:15)", "body": "Wow, that's great Annette. What's the housing situation there now? Are there houses available for rent/sale?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Wed, Feb 25, 1998 (19:54)", "body": "Available housing is rather scarce, right now, Terry. I got quite lucky and found out about a new cabin that had just came up for rent, so, I put my name in for it! I have asked for \"temporary residency\", and, I meet with the Membership Committee on Tuesday night as an introduction for the few that haven't met me, yet. I am looking forward to the experience!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb 25, 1998 (21:57)", "body": "What about places for sale?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Thu, Feb 26, 1998 (16:43)", "body": "None that I know of, right now, Terry. Occasionally, say,average every 6 months, I'll hear of a place for sale. They come few and far between!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 27, 1998 (18:58)", "body": "Isn't it amazing that now there's a housing shortage with, what, 300 folks and the Farm used to support about 1400 folks? Of course the density per household was sky high back then."}, {"response": 14, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Sun, Mar  1, 1998 (00:56)", "body": "Right. Look how many folks were living in one house, back then. Alot of folks have lived in households where they were running over each other! These days, there are still , mostly young adults, living in households, together, but most established families or older single folks live in their own dwellings."}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar  1, 1998 (08:45)", "body": "Of course, back then, the tenthouses (16x32 army tents) and schoolbusses took up a lot of the slack. I assume tenthouses are passe?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Sun, Mar  1, 1998 (11:23)", "body": "Definitely. There are still very few who live in the old buses (that have small buildings attached to them), but, most folks reside in houses/mobile homes. The only tents that I see, these days, are put up by campers! :)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar  1, 1998 (19:31)", "body": "Funny, I'm putting up a tenthouse out in the woods behind my house just for a hangout, but I'm modeling it after the old tenthouses we had at the Farm. We lived in one *in the winter*, *in Wisconsin* (and had one helluva wood stove to heat it)."}, {"response": 18, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Mon, Mar  2, 1998 (01:14)", "body": "Ah, but any dwelling suits the purpose if it provides peace and tranquility! Good for you! Having a private hangout where you can feel peaceful and relaxed is another method for keeping one's sanity intact, don't you think?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar  2, 1998 (01:44)", "body": "Absolutely, speaking of sanity, I just tried to get to the media conference and ended up here. Maybe I'm in the twilight zone tonight. Feels like it. We all need those safe havens where we can, at least temporarily, extricate ourselves from el rat race. The woods around here are nice."}, {"response": 20, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Sat, Mar  7, 1998 (19:17)", "body": "The woods are a wonderful place to lose yourself. This morning, I watched a woodpecker and a squirrel battle it out while having my morning cup of java! Amazing how involved I became, and, how all worries just seem to slip away..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar  7, 1998 (19:23)", "body": "Agree about slipping off the woods. I did a bit of that today, myself. Right now the last daylight in the sky is battling with clouds and thunder sounds fill the air. Just like Tenneessee!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Thu, Mar 12, 1998 (09:30)", "body": "Made it to The Farm. by the way...I'm here!:)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 12, 1998 (14:56)", "body": "Great. The adventure begins. It should be exciting to hear your comments."}, {"response": 24, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Mon, Mar 23, 1998 (19:08)", "body": "Community dinners every Wednesday night, Terry...Mmmmmmm...I AM eating good at least ONCE a week!(grin) It is also a good opportunity for everyone to get together and enjoy each other's company and talk about ideas, problems, etc. Good food and Good company!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar 23, 1998 (20:32)", "body": "Any updates Annette, how has it gone now that you're settling in?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Mar 24, 1998 (09:34)", "body": "can't wait to hear Annette, i plan to live vicariously through you on this one!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Tue, Apr 21, 1998 (21:19)", "body": "Sorry, folks - I guess I wandered aimlessly off into the woods, for a while! :) Things are great! We had the big Unity Festival, this past weekend, and, despite getting rainsoaked all day on Saturday, it was a success! Music and shows, inside, all weekend at the Community Center, good veggie food, crafts booths under the big tent, bonfires, drummings, and lots of wet, smiling hippies....myself, included!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Apr 21, 1998 (22:27)", "body": "Great, I was wondering what happened to you Annette. What part of the Farm was this held? About how many folks attended? Are the Traugots still on the Farm?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "akia", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (19:38)", "body": "Hi, I was a biker, riding my harley, drinking beer, and smoking the last pound of real acopulco gold I've ever had...it was like '76 and I found a copy of Hey Beatnick at a bookstore in St.Petersburg Florida...and I mentioned to my neighbor who was a hippy 'nam vette who worked at the local VA hospital...and he mentioned that he worked with a guy who used to live on The Farm... turned out to be Dane of Dane and Elizabeth... he was one of the guys who went to prison for the farm dope field..."}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb  6, 1999 (09:37)", "body": "Dane and I used to do T'ai Chi in San Francisco. He studied with Master Choy, who was not one of Stephens favorites!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "brandler", "date": "Sun, Feb  7, 1999 (17:30)", "body": "Frank, I know Dane but lost touch after the slam. Would you happen to have a line on his (and/or Elizabeth) whereabouts these days?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb  7, 1999 (19:39)", "body": "Brandon! How are you doing?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Troublemaker", "date": "Wed, Dec 27, 2000 (10:32)", "body": "The Troublemaker's Organization- http://www.troublemaker.org I first heard of the Farm in an advanced history class in high school some very very bright girl was doing a report on utopian societies, shes probably a psychologist somewhere shrinking someones head back down to size or a crackwhore, you know how things workout. The next time I was just out of reform school and wandering the streets of a well known party university, how I got from reform school to a large university in one fell swoop is still kind of a mystery to me however the old hippie gentleman id met the very first night told me all kinds of interesting things about the hippie \"scene\" and I do remember him speaking of the Farm. All thats been well over ten years ago, and as of late I know I signed the Farms guestbook. Thats where I heard of this page through an email sent from that page. Now why exactly I signed the Farms guestbook isnt something I can recall at the present time, Senator. The Troublemaker's Organization- http://www.troublemaker.org"}, {"response": 34, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Dec 28, 2000 (12:22)", "body": "You don't remember who that \"old hippie gentleman\" was, do you? So you're a troublemaker? farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 20, "subject": "Media mentions of the Farm", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 30, 2001 (17:09)", "body": "There will be a half hour program about the Farm, mostly interviews with Farm folks living off and on the Farm, especially youth, on MSNBC \"Reports\" with Forrest Sawyer, Monday night at 9 PM East Coast time. -P -- http://www.plenty.org"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep  2, 2001 (11:32)", "body": "A Different Drum We explore the attraction, participants, and surprising longevity of the counterculture from the Burning Man Festival in the Nevada desert to a rare first-hand look inside Tennessees The Farm, one of the original 1960s communes now in its 30th year."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep  2, 2001 (11:32)", "body": "http://www.msnbc.com/news/599517.asp?0dm=C219V#Investigates"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep  3, 2001 (23:11)", "body": "It wasn't back to the future, it was back to the past. The MSNBC Burning Man / Farm special paid homage to both these institutions in a respectful, considerate way. They focused in on the story of the Farm, from the Family Dog days, the Caravan and the settling of the Farm in Summertown. There was some great old footage and interviews, probably done at Ragweed Day, with Phillip Schweitzer, Alan Graf, Stephen, Ina May, and a couple of the kids that are now in their 30s, Janet and Jose Mundo's daughter and the Frohmann's daughter, who's a photojournalist now for the San Jose Mercury News. They slid in a shot at Al Gore, who visited the Farm while a young Nashville photojournalist. Scoop Nisker interviews provided the bridge and background context between Burning Man and the Farm. Stephen on Al Gore, \"Gore had a good time . . . he never said a word about pot . . . except it was a 'false experience' . . . I've got a degree in English and I'm a general semanticist and I don't know what that means.\" Alan Graf had a lot to say and summed up why it left the Farm, \"when you've got two kids and you're 30 years old a school bus doesn't make it anymore.\" Phil Schweitzer is back on the Farm running a small video business. A lot of folks and the kids still feel like the Farm is their home Ina May is still running her birthing center, \"there's not too many midwives in the country that get to live with their results.\" \"The once exalted Stephen Gaskin has let go of his Zen Master role and just lives like everyone else there.\" Rina Mundo looked cool, she's writing an producing documentaries in New York City. She still considers the Farm \"her real home\". Susanah Frohmann found herself \"embarrassed about the Farm . . . it took her three years to tell someone she was from a commune. Daniel Hunt married another Farm girl and they're running a Hidden Gardens Nursery in Aptos. Will the Farm go on? It's a challenge, say Phillip. It's no doubt had a huge impact on a lot of lives. \"I come back to the Farm because it's my home and my heart, I want to be buried on the Farm,\" said Susanah. \"It's where I'm allowed to be who I am.\" said Stephen at the close of this program. The Farm couldn't have made a more positive documentary about itself. MSNBC gave the Farm a huge stroke tonight. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 21, "subject": "Farm folks and the World Trade Center attack", "response_count": 5, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Sep 22, 2001 (23:56)", "body": "Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 12:25:26 -0400 From: \"cpmcnel@usit.net\" To: \"terry@www.spring.net\" Subject: RE: WTC - How do you feel? [ The following text is in the \"iso-8859-1\" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the \"US-ASCII\" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] Hi Paul, Carol Nelson here. I am in south Florida baby sitting my grandchildren. We drove down The Farm last week through hurricane Gabriella. My Daughter Kim McCusker and her husband Paul are in NYC, ground zero. They are part of the search and rescue team deployed from the Miami-Dade Area. They are both highly trained K-9 search and rescue fire fighters.They have been there about a week already and will probably not retutn until the end of next week. So we are getting first hand info on a daily basis. Not Good! I have a friend that works around the block on Broad street. She called me after the first hit and we were on the phone when the second plane hit. You could hear and feel it thru the phone lines. I heard Michael Gavin's cousin was in one of the bulidings and is missing. All the talk of WAR is so bad. So hard to hear and think about. All I can do is continue to pray for peace. Peace Carol"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Sep 22, 2001 (23:57)", "body": "Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 15:23:33 -0700 From: Gerald Wheeler To: Paul Terry Walhus Subject: Re: WTC - How do you feel? it is now about midnight sept. 21, 2001...autumn equinox, i am in oakland california, i just finished watching the a's beat seattle in the first game of a three game series, between innings i flipped over a channel to watch what most everyone else that was watching television tonight was probably watching, the fund-raiser and tribute to those who died ten days ago in the attacks on the wtc and the pentagon and the final plane that was brought down most likely by a group of courageous passengers who took on the hijackers and crashed that plane in a field in pennsylvania, so many heroes keep emerging from the center of the tragedy, and what a powerful assembly there on the tv, i am moved by the sense that we as a nation, for the first time in my memory, have been brought together like never before, and it's real and it's full of power and authenticity and i catch a glimmer of something inside of me that suddenly says that america really is worth saving, and i let that glimmer grow into more of a flame and i see that for all of its' faults, there just isn't anything or any other place like this place and the freedom that it provides everyone of us who share its' soil...i think about what to do about achieving justice and how it is a good idea to take the time to let things settle in the mind and calm that which cries out for revenge, because revenge is knee-jerk and full of anger and confusion and does not offer real satisfaction because its' results are uneven and because an uneven response creates more suffering...i think about who or what the enemy really is and i come to the conclusion that the enemy is not the taliban or hezbollah or the islamic jihad or osama bin laden or fundamentalist christians or fundamentalist jews or fundamentalist moslems or jerry falwell or yassar arrafat or north korea or chevron oil or suicide bombers or the bible or the koran...it is evil...the real enemy is simply evil, evil in whatever form and shape it may incarnate into at any time or place, and i think about how it is imperative that we learn to recognize evil in all its' forms and whenever and wherever it appears, and that we take sufficient care to respond in ways in which its' effects are cancelled and diffused, and this applies to the everyday, right under our nose kinds of evil, out to the broader, affecting all of humanity kinds as well, and that how we respond will determine the outcome of events in the future, and i think about what that means to me individually and i am reminded of how grateful i am that i have a way to get calm, that i learned how to meditate thirty years ago and try to practice on a regular basis, oh it doesn't always prevent one from getting caught in the cross-fire but sometimes it seems like it helps slow down the bullets so that you can see where to not step, non-action thru action, and makes you aware that everything begins in the mind, everything, so the key is to tame the fury of the mind, and transform pain and hardship into compassion and real strength by doing so, we individually hold the answer to our situation but to see that clearly we must first conquer the fury...om mani padme om! --all the best, gerald wheeler"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep 23, 2001 (21:03)", "body": "Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 15:19:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Brady To: Paul Terry Walhus Subject: Re: WTC - How do you feel? Hello Paul, Thank you creating a forum for people to post different ideas. I have been very disturbed by the developments over the past two weeks and needed to hear some people speak with a voice of reason while the media and Government beat the drum of War. I think America needs to take a long look in the mirror and try to understand why people would want to do this to us. We have always had a heavy-handed, arrogant approach to the rest of the world when it comes to \"our interests\" - the latest display being when we walked out of the conference on human rights in Durban, South Africa. The War, I am afraid, may be inside us - we have never come to terms with our brutal past(and present), and sooner or later it will catch up with us. I also think we need to be very careful how we respond to this latest attack in order to avoid setting off a pattern of violence that could drag on for years to come. To go blindly bombing Afghanistan will not solve the problem, and will just get more innocent people killed - some of which are already starving to death. I do support the extradition of those responsible and have them brought up on War crimes. We may never be able to rid the world of terrorism because it is a faceless entity. I believe the best approach would be to try change our relationship with the rest of the world. As Ghandi said: \"Be the change you want to see in the world\" - I try to remind myself to do this. I hope you're well... Hope and Peace, Steve Brady Occidental, Ca"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep 23, 2001 (21:04)", "body": "Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:41:24 -0500 From: Kathleen Rosemary To: terry@www.spring.net Subject: Re: WTC - How do you feel? Now is the time According to every teaching I honor, and The Farm founders' vision, the vibration of Love and Peace is the strongest force in the Universe, and we as humans have the capacity to affect the planetary vibration by being generators and amplifiers of this vibration. Studies on the power of prayer, such as The Isaiah Effect by author Greg Braden, say that the power is in the emotion, the passion, behind the conscious intent, and visioning the effect as already created. This belief was held by the Essenes, the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and by Tibetan Buddhists from ancient times. This is the greatest opportunity in the history of the planet. More humans are alive on Earth than ever before, and are linked through the media and Internet. Unique in the history of mankind, this time of devastation and world-wide prayer can, if we keep our focus on our own inner peace and on universal love, create the quantum leap into the time of peace that we all deeply want to see on Earth. Let's do it! Kathleen Rosemary, on The Farm"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 28, 2001 (09:37)", "body": "From: Suzanne Hope Suarez Still stunned. Life becomes more precious as we are forced to contemplate our own mortality. Such an incident is too stark to \"grok.\" Let us live and appreciate life. I want to express my love and respect to everyone my current life, my husband, my daughter, to my old Farm friends and to my old friends at San Francisco Zen Center. Suzanne Suarez farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 22, "subject": "Rainbow Gathering", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 23, 2002 (07:34)", "body": "The annual Rainbow Family of Light Gathering of the Tribes draws some 20,000 people for a week-long backwoods celebration of '60s values. This year's gathering is expected to draw fewer people, perhaps 15,000 total, due to the group's legal battles over the need for permits for the event. It is scheduled for the first week of July, somewhere in the Great Lakes Region. Last week's New York Rainbow gathering was an offshoot of the main, national event. Attendees come from every age group and diverse background, says Rob Savoye, a computer programmer, former Deadhead, and Rainbow Family Gathering regular. \"You would be amazed the diversity,\" he says. \"You'd meet all these young kids with dreadlocks in a drum circle with their dogs, but you could also meet vice presidents of finance.\" \"There's small collection of graybeard types like us,\" he says, but most Rainbow-goers are under 25. The Rainbow Gathering is not the only evidence of the modern America's tie-dyed diversity. Hundreds of communes still operate around the United States, says Tim Miller, a sociologist at the University of Kansas. He estimates there are \"hundreds of thousands or millions\" of hippies in the country today. The Hippy.com Web site identifies \"hippie havens\" in 39 states, including not just New York, Oregon and California, but also Alaska, Hawaii and Arkansas. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/hippies020523.html farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 23, "subject": "Hippies", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jul 27, 2002 (09:32)", "body": "aging hippies bare all at nudestock festival: http://nudestockfestival.com/WebPages2001/page_01.htm"}, {"response": 2, "author": "paul", "date": "Tue, Oct 18, 2005 (09:09)", "body": "Chet Helms Tribal Stomp Sunday, October 30 2005 All Day Produced by: Family Dog Admission: Free Info: Information will be posted at: 2b1records.com/chetmemorial. The list of performers who wish to pay their respects is massive. As the performers, etc. confirm they will be posted on the site. Volunteers: Anyone wishing to be involved may sign up at tribes.tribe.net/chethelmstribalstomp Web: www.2b1records.com/chetmemorial Background: Chet Helms was one of the founding fathers of the psychedelic movement from the 1960?s. As promoter for the ?Family Dog?, Chet developed the concept of the modern rock concert and was one of the founding fathers of the 1960?s peace movements that swept the nation and made waves around the world. Chet was also the catalyst that brought together Janis Joplin with ?Big Brother and the Holding Company?, which helped shape the San Francisco sound. He promoted acts like The Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Charlatans, Great Society, Jimi Hendrix, The Doors, Peter Tosh, the Clash and countless others. Without Chet Helms, as many have said, there would be no Grateful Dead, no Jefferson Airplane, no Big Brother, and the list goes on and on. While promoting concerts at the legendary Avalon Ballroom in San Francisco, Chet produced a series of posters that are considered by some to be the finest art from that period. It was through these posters that artists like Alton Kelley, Stanley Mouse, and Rick Griffin, rose to fame. He also provided a fertile home for light shows to develop their art, which became today?s multimedia light show extravaganzas. Chet Helms continued promoting pivotal concerts through four decades. In the 60?s at the Avalon, Family Dog at the Beach, S.F. Golden Gate Park, Denver Dog, and Crystal Ballroom in Portland. In the 1970?s, Chet organized the ?Tribal Stomps in Berkeley and Monterey, which rekindled hip values and united the families. The ?Tribute to Chet Helms? in 1994, brought together many of the original 60?s acts and started a new hip movement that lasted at Maritime Hall for 7 years. In 1997, Chet organized the 30th anniversary ?Summer of Love? concert at the Beach Chalet Meadows, uniting young bands with original 1960?s San Francisco acts. Over 20,000 people attended this event. Where Bill Graham may have been the warrior and conqueror of rock, Chet Helms was heart and soul. Chet was a kind and gentle spirit who had love for all. Bands: Nick Gravenites, Harvey Mandel, Taj Mahal, Dan Hicks and the Hot Licks, The Charlatans, Terry Haggerty and James Preston (Sons of Champlin), Zero II, Squid B. Vicious, Paul Kantner (Jefferson Airplane, Starship), Barry Melton (Country Joe and the Fish) Blue Cheer, (Dickie Peterson, Leigh Stephens), Jorge Santana, George Michalski, Greg Errico (Sly and the Family Stone), Quicksilver Gold, Canned Heat, Narada Michael Walden, Natural Act (Hal Wagenet and Hitchell Holman), Jeff Blackburn, Howard Wales, Richi Ray, (Freedom Highway), Ray Manzarek (The Doors), Vince Welnick, (TheTubes and Grateful Dead), Prairie Prince (Tubes), David Denny (Steve Miller), Peter Kaukonen, Iron Butterfly, Sammy Hagar, Herman Eberitzsch (Lee Oskar ,War), Ross Valory (Journey), Ace of Cups, War, Judge Murphy, Stephen Gaskin, David Freiberg (Quicksilver and Starship) Country Joe McDonald (Country Joe and The Fish) Greg Douglass (Steve Miller) Pete Sears (Rod Stewart, Hot Tuna), Bruce Latimer, David and Linda Laflamme (It's A Beautiful Day), Rowan Brothers, Lydia Pense, Annie Samson, Wavy Gravy. Time: 10:00am to 5:30pm Location: Speedway Meadows, Golden Gate Park San Francisco CA Contact Information: www.2b1records.com/chetmemorial farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 24, "subject": "The Meadows in Takilma Oregon", "response_count": 14, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:06)", "body": "The only thing I could find on the net about the Meadows was this, a letter from Romain to Home Power Magazine. Dear Richard and Home Power Staff, A little get acquainted talk before I get to the heart of my letter. My name is Romain Cooper and I talked to Richard once over the phone about a used inverter and then about AE, the magazine etc. I live near Takilma, OR with 3 other families on a semi-remote, 200 acre piece of land. We inhabitants did without electricity for many years for the usual reasons: We didn't want to support those \"coal burning, river damming, nuke-reacting\" utilities, we wanted to remain somewhat self reliant and the price tag of a grid hookup was prohibitive. 9 years ago we first discovered hydro-generated electricity. Our initial installations were the simplest imaginable. Wheels from pulleys and stainless steel dessert spoons, surplus permanent magnet alternators, and Sears deep cycle 12V batteries. A voltmeter and switch to prevent back cycling rounded out the system. Two irrigation lines served as penstocks. They both had about 100' of head and were of 2.5\" or 3\" PVC. About 4 years ago we upgraded our \"electric company\". A new penstock was installed to provide irrigation for the 2.5 garden/orchard, to supply domestic water to 3 residences, and to supply electricity to the 3 residences and to misc. shops and work places. The pipeline is 2000' of 5\" PVC, mostly buried, with 200' of drop. The system was designed to eventually produce straight ac current during winter flows, hence the 6\" pipe. The present system utilizes a 4 jet Harris pelton wheel (4.5\"D), a Ford heavy duty truck alternator, 8 Trojan L-16 batteries (wired in series and parallel to store 1400 AH (700AH? RP) at 24V) and a Heart 24V, 2400W inverter. Jonny Klien, neighbor and friend, built for us a voltage regulator that measures battery voltage and relays a dummy load. (This is the JK who is a Takilma ham operator.) This system is removed from the residences that it services by 200 yards from the nearest residence to 600 yards to the farthest. The trenches that hold the AL transmission cables also hold the water yards from the nearest residence to 600 yards to the farthest. The trenches that hold the AL transmission cables also hold the water pipes for the domestic water and cables for phone service. Another system, for a single residence, utilizes the 3\" PVC, 110' head irrigation system that was designed to water a 4 acre meadow. It operates on a single jet Harris pelton identical to the other system's with a home-made housing, a surplus permanent magnet alternator, (2) 6V deep cycle forklift batteries wired in series for 12V and a Trace 2000W 12V inverter. The systems have performed well for several years. We run the usual devices: lights, audio (with inverter noise), juicers, blenders, and such, washing machines, power tools. Been running my IBM clone AT on the Heart inverter heavy for over a year with no problems. Though the alternator of the 3 family system can run 60 amps (for how long?), we get what we need for 3 households with 10 amps worth (25-27V) and still trip the shunt load daily. 24 gal./min. gives the 10 amps. The single residence system delivers 10 amps at 13-14V. For us, the catcher is summer time. From July into October we can use hydro only sporadically. Our stream flows are very low and use most of our hydro-power to push irrigation sprinklers rather than generate electricity. Last summer we increased our PV generating capacity of (4) 44W Kyocera panels with 10 bargain 36W Solavolt panels. We put the panels on a beam framework and used wooden mounts modeled after the metal ones described in issue 2. The wiring to the power/battery/inverter shed and components were sized to a 30 amp (at 24V) load to allow for expansion of the array. Unfortunately, the solar site chosen has only fair solar potential. Analysis showed it cheaper to purchase additional panels at reduced output due to shading than to purchase and install wire and components to bring the 24V current to the batteries and inverter from a sunnier location. Which finally brings me to the heart of the letter. Evaluating various sites for their PV outputs proved to be a lot of work and guess work. A few months later, while monitoring streams for the US Forest Service, I used a tool that seemed ideal for evaluating the solar capabilities of a site. The device is called a Solar Pathfinder and it is manufactured by Solar Pathways, Inc. of Glenwood Springs, Colorado. The pathfinder looks somewhat like an R2D2 robot. The Forest Service uses it to determine the amount of sun striking a stream at a particular place (which strongly influences stream water temperatures). The device is easy to use and portable. It measures, in one fast reading, the hours of sun hitting a site for the entire year. The reading can be taken anytime of day or year in clear or cloudy weather. A transparent, parabolic mirror shows reflections of all shade producing features inc"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:07)", "body": "The only contact I could find! Romain Cooper Program Director Siskiyou Regional Education Project P.O. Box 220 Cave Junction, Oregon 97523 Phone (541) 592-4459 Fax (541) 592-2653 mailto://romain@siskiyou.org http://www.siskiyou.org"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:09)", "body": "And here's the email from Eugene: From: Eugene Hill To: terry@www.spring.net Subject: (no subject) i was one of the founding members of \"the meadows\" commune in 1969-71 takilma oregon... does the commune still exist... is anyone online... do any of the original members still live there... i was thinking of coming for a visit... but did not want to waste my time if everyone is gone... thanks for taking the time to reply... if you do... eugene hill Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:37:09 -0600 From: Eugene Hill To: Paul Terry Walhus Subject: Re: (no subject) i live south of albuquerque, nm... i have 2 acres and a home... i left the meadows in 1972-73 right after janet silverman committed suicide... i built the wooden teepee next to the stream but don't know how long it stayed up after i left... i knew everyone you speak of (i think)... did you know susan, allen and reva and there kids... also there was bill (white rabbit) donny, abby... i just heard that allen was murdered and reva died of cancer... glad to hear from you... why don't you write to me and maybe i will collect stories and put up a web page about the meadows somewhere... also will fill you in how what i know since i was there from the beginning... how great is the music scene in austin??? i spent some time in san antonio a few years ago but did not get to spend any time in austin... thanks for writing..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:15)", "body": "FROM llucy...................May 2, 2000, 10:16 (EST) hmm my chariot calling. just got a REUNION invitation from the Meadows...in august, some of y'all should come full moon. had a question..did alan and reva weiss come from Newpaltz? does anyone know where their children are? sure it's three decades later and guns in schools but remember the behaviorist's wood have had the humanrats at their own throats already years ago and so it goes population pressures, but we wood not give up our nice, loving, intelligent well adapted kids and grandkids either hmmmmm? the delicate balance of globalization which i noticed THE POPE (god spare us) denounced in a speechcummass on mayday...is feeding and using and sparking the whole teetering mass of us in spite of all this. maybe giving us a chance to think of something better yet before we turn out to be no smarter than a one celled organism.. humans! ya got to be intrigued. must get to work carry on! love http://members.aol.com/tedibearxx/archive10.html"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:18)", "body": "FROM llucy...................Apr 18, 2002, 09:15 (EST) <> checking back in....spent a little time in takilma last weekend..visted grace, mowed her lawn(had to repair the mower)young women still not hep to becoming their own mechanics as quick as possible. went out to t-town and rode a horse to hope mountain down to waldo and back thru allan gulch. the bycycle path,,,built with such care 20 years ago now growing neglected. someone has taken a cat and stirred up the queen of bronze tailing pond...bet that put toxic stew into the watershed.Pelliter hired Jim Dougherty to log that piece behind the community building. he selected out for all the big trees...some 2nd growth left. left the slash down on ground...now that is going to be a fuelload for a wildfire. dry there/even more dry that my desert home. most unsettling. http://members.aol.com/tedibearxx/archive26.html"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:20)", "body": "FROM llucy...................Apr 25, 2000, 10:22 (EST) well..morning you guys. finding you just by random chance was sweet. it makes me feel like hanging a deer and inviting y'all over for music. sigh. what ya say? still in oregon even if a lonk way from holland. what about tom (m)? still about the planet you think? think i'll stop and burn one for him.. me honey convinced me to give up cigs..(but still sneak one or two a month) chuckle..but will go still smoking.. it's bizarre i found you cause just this last month have had series of dreams all dreams of trying to get to the crystal palace and never getting all the way there..and artichokes always bloom along the trail. hey..email i guess is safe 'nuf... mailto://llucy85@hotmail.com . love"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:24)", "body": "FROM llucy...................May 5, 2002, 09:14 (EST) <> morning all!..the lovely news is that our children are holding a music camping festival on White School House Road, JUNE 1 and 2. That is Cave Junction folks. They have a website.. (www.SHININGSTARSFESTIVAL.com) and a phone number for tickets...541-592-5460. This is a fundraiser for the dome school. It just sounds like great fun and Allan and I will stop working like retirees and go have some fun...18 bands we have never heard of oh well we just are not hip to the new music out there. i am still stuck on danny hathaway and roberta flack.chuckle."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:25)", "body": "FROM llucy...................May 5, 2002, 18:02 (EST) A Dome School & Takilma Community Benefit Mountain Meadows - Cave Junction, OR June 1 & 2, 2002 Confirmed Acts: Freedom Tribe, Jupiter Hollow, The Sasha Butterfly Band, Tina Malia, Shim Shai, Broadfunk, Americanistan, The Rhythm Pimps, Kawaida, School of Green, Trickle up Theory, Redwood Highway, I AM Crew, Day*Go*Bah, Cesar, MC Metric & Marv Ellis, DJ Zion, Isall & The Circle of Light, Scott Huckabay, and more to be announced\ufffd For even more fun, there will be The Illuminated Fools Giant Puppets, Fire dancers, Parades, Workshops, as well as many surprises included with your pass\ufffd Of course our show would not be complete without our Kids village \ufffd Children can do all kinds of arts & crafts projects, as well as free face painting, and snacks. Kid's Village will have sacred space available for resting children and nursing mommas\ufffd Any other questions? e-mail us or call! 541-592-5460 Shining Stars Festival PO Box 1225 Cave Junction, OR 97523 There will also be late night festivities for all of our beautiful campers\ufffd 2 Stages on 400 acres! Volunteers/Vending: Please send your request to our e-mail addy or call (541) 592-5460"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:41)", "body": "So wither the Meadows? Does it still exist and who lives there now?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (09:53)", "body": "This guy would know: Jonathan D. Klein K7JK, Talsalsan Farm, 12330 Takilma Rd., Cave Junction, OR 97523. Here's what I wrote in my introduction in topic 1 in the Spring's Farm Conference. Topic 1 of 24 [farm]: introductions Response 29 of 33: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Fri, May 4, 2001 (00:43) * 1 lines There are some great communities in Southern Oregon, I lived there about 20 years and my wife at the time and I worked a little natural foods store (called affectionately the \"Wonder Dome\" by area folk) on the highway from Takilma to Grants Pass. There was (is?) a place there called the Meadows, it's about 200 acres of springfed woods and gardens and the Illinois River borders it. It's quite paradaisical, I remember some of the folks, Romaine, Bear, Beth and Michael. Joohnhnny the ham operator lived down the road and there were the sisters who lived at a Farm behind Talsalsan Farm, Laurie and, and ? , Apple's Larry Tessler lived at a commune in the neighborhood with a name that's on the tip of my tongue, Canaan I think it was, they had a huge lodge and ran the local peoples clinic. Crooks Creek and the Family of the Mystic Arts were other phenomenal communities, I could write a book about this era!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 12, 2002 (11:30)", "body": "Highly recommended, the Siskiyou Newsletter to which Romain and Lori have made major contributions: http://www.siskiyou.org/newsletters/sp02.pdf"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 13, 2002 (07:41)", "body": "Wow, an email reply this morning from Romain! Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:33:25 -0700 From: Romain Cooper To: Paul Terry Walhus Cc: Eugene Hill Subject: Meadows Paul and (Eu)Gene, I do remember both of you and hope all is well with you. The Meadows does indeed still exist but not as a commune. We are a land trust (with a conservation easement to protect the ecology and natural beauty of the Meadows) but we operate as seperate households who live cooperatively. Mark and Beth are still here. I live with Christy (Paul probably met her but not Gene). Beth, Mark, Christy and I share a large garden that supplies much of our food (vegies and fruits) year round. Dog is still here with his wife, Linda (though they are often in Eugene, OR where Linda is presently employed. A third building is now occupied by renters. Kids are older and have \"flown the coop\". We had a 30 year reunion (Mark and I and Allen and Reva, etc. first arrived in 1970) in Aug., 1990. We tried to locate both of you w/o success. It was a great reunion though w/ many folk making it from all over the country. Much has transpired and I can't at this time give a real update. It's been a long time since I talked with or heard from you, Paul, and much longer for you, Gene. Reva did die of cancer but Allen wasn't murdered (suicide or drug overdose or both? Many years ago). The house I built in 1980 and still live in is over the site of the \"wooden teepee\". Looks like you now go by your full name, Eugene? My name is spelled w/o the \"e\". I am working (as director at this time) of a local enviro group ( www.siskiyou.org or www.siskiyourivers.org ). As perhaps you've heard, a huge fire (~380,000 acres) is now burning just to the west of here in the Kalmiopsis Wilderness and surrounding wildlands. This is a rough situation that has kept me, and all the staff, busier than usual. Beth and Mark are basket makers (of course they do all kinds of other things). The baskets are made from local materials and have to be seen to be believed. Donnalee is still here in Takilma. Gemini Bill is in Cave Jct. Donny died about 8 years ago in a freak canoe accident / drowning (he hadn't lived in this area for a number of years) - so sad. Keep in touch, guys. Once again, hope all is well on your end of the world. Romain"}, {"response": 13, "author": "paul", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 2008 (10:10)", "body": "I just sent a pointer to this topic to Michael Swaine on Facebook who lives in Grants Pass, OR."}, {"response": 14, "author": "paul", "date": "Sat, Apr 30, 2011 (17:35)", "body": "Romain, are you on facebook? farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 25, "subject": "Karen Sharkey Flaherty", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 30, 2002 (12:53)", "body": "Karen was a big part of our lives and our work. We love her and miss her very much. Karen is survived by her two children, mother and father, three brothers and a sister. Her family has established the Karen Sharkey Flaherty Fund to support small projects close to Karen\ufffds heart that promote peace, justice, acceptance and understanding among people. Donations can be sent to PO Box 10775, Tallahassee, FL 32302. Plenty has also set up a memorial fund for Karen. Pioneer for Womens Issues Remembered\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Karen Sharkey Flaherty, FAVA/CA\ufffds data manager, womens projects director, and earth mother, age 53, died February 4, 2002 of complications from surgery undergone in late 2001. Karen was active in projects in the Eastern Caribbean and in Belize. Her passions included the Volunteer Corps; The Farm, an intentional spiritual community in Summertown, Tennessee; and its global development agency, Plenty International. She was committed to justice and peace, and will be remembered with love by staff, partners and friends. from http://www.favaca.org/news/spring_2002.html"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 30, 2002 (12:54)", "body": "I remember Karen from Minneapolis, Minnesota. I went there in the 70s to work as a city planner and met her and Michael at a yoga class. We ended up pooling our resources, buying a schoolbus, and hopping on board the \"Caravan\" led by Stephen Gaskin and traveling to Kansas City, the Southwest and California. That experience may have been what led Karen and Michael to the Farm. Just before she died, I had spoken to Karen about setting up a website for her Farm Net News and had offered her this web space. Oddly, I hadn't heard from her for many months and then today (October 30, 2002) I got a call from Michael Flaherty and he told me the news. He told me about all the memorials that have been held in Tennessee, Minnesota, Florida and California for Karen. She left a deep, lasting impression on many people, myself included. I'll miss Karen a lot. She was full of really good spirit. It's sad that she died through negligence in the hospital and not being cared for properly when she had spent her whole life caring for others. For news of more memorials about Karen, Michael Flaherty may be able to guide you. He's at: mailto://mikerini@nelson-tel.net Words don't communicate my admiration for Karen, it's only expressed by a feeling I can't put in to words at this moment. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 26, "subject": "Who has passed on to the other shore?", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 2003 (05:55)", "body": "Of course, Karen Flaherty, but she is much discussed and much revered. Who do you know about that has passed on? My baby Ira died on the Farm when he was 10 days old. Stephen and Ina May took us in to their home during this trying time for Louise and I. He's buried on the Farm."}, {"response": 2, "author": "mexicana", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 2003 (21:00)", "body": "I'm sorry about your loss. Thomas Dixon, O.L., the history teacher, Dawn Huddleston. I wonder who else... farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 27, "subject": "Is/was Stephen self-realized?", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "mexicana", "date": "Mon, Mar 10, 2003 (02:34)", "body": "Stephen is a bodhisattva because he helped so many people progress spiritually for the sake of all living beings. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 28, "subject": "David & Carolyn Brittell and Farm Net News", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sat, Feb 24, 2007 (21:44)", "body": "Cool, hi Carolyn. How are you? Where are you?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Jun 17, 2007 (22:26)", "body": "Item 30 entered Sun, Feb 4, 2007 (23:54) by Carolyn Brittell Mathews (CarolynSpiritPeace) David & Carolyn Brittell and Farm Net News Hello ex-Farmies, For anybody who doesn't know me, David Brittell and I were two of the \"original\" founding members of the Farm in 1971. I'm just learning how to get into this conference system. If you didn't know me, you might have seen us in the Spiritual Midwifery book with our firstborn Pablo, who's now the proud papa of Collin Valentino, who will be two this Valentine's Day. David passed away from lung cancer the day after Christmas 2006, so for those who knew him pass it on. Unfortunately he smoked tobacco too much for too long, and quitting it 3 years or so before he died was just too late. Sadly, he leaves behind his second wife Martha, and their son Enzo, as well as my two sons with him, Pablo, and Jeffrey. Jeff and I hope to come visit the Farm later this year, if funds and timing work out. I wanted to know if Farm Net News is defunkt...ie. are these conferences what remains, and if so where is a place where ex-Farmies meet to discuss stuff? IS this it, and I'm just a newbie not understanding all the topics and conferences yet. If somebody can give me some pointers to the right areas, conferences, lists, whatever, please do! I'd like to connect with some old friends, and see what people are doing, so is there any kind of list of ex-Farmies or a way to look up people's emails or phones or addresses? One I'm looking for is my old friend Jeffrey Kaufman, and also his ex-wife Bonnie/Bernice. They both knew me and David well, although Jeffrey had more recent contact with him, and called me to express his feeling of loss. However, he left no number to call back, and my caller ID seems to have only some number he called from of some company that does not list him as having an extension there. Any help, anyone? I'd appreciate it. Also, hoping for an ex-Farmie's perspective or two (or more) who have visited the Farm recently. I think my last visit may have been 6-7 years ago, and the one before that probably 14 years ago, so it hasn't been recent. Thanks a lot! Peace be with you! P.S. I'm now a \"poverty lawyer\", (went back to school at the time of my divorce), working out of my home on a shoestring, as well as a peace activist, singer/songwriter part of the time, and active with music and spiritual groups, ACLU and civil liberties and religious liberties issues, Native American Support Group and Peace Coalition (local), progressive politics, etc. I don't have a CD of my own, but I donated an original song on a benefit CD for Leonard Peltier \"In the Spirit of Crazy Horse\" (song titled \"Pray for the People\"), and sang a Lee Ruth song on a benefit CD for our local community radio \"Everybody's Got Love\" (song titled \"Candy from Delaware\"). Anybody who remembers me who wants to get in touch and tell me what you're doing, that would be great! Take care and be in touch! CarolynSpiritPeace farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 3, "subject": "When and where I lived on the Farm", "response_count": 9, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Roan", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (04:22)", "body": "Lets see if I remember: 1st at the end of 1st road, on that dogleg that went along the meadow there, where we used to park for Ragweed day and to go to the swimming hole... Next we moved to Dogwood blossom, before it was called that and was mostly just a tent with a barnlike addition... Then we went to the Florida Farm where we lived at the pool house, the Crome house, and mostly at the Camp... Then to the New York Farm after a few days at the Bronx center, but I blew out there facing the long winter and we headed out to California where we started up the Ranchita Health Center... Then back to the Farm where we lived at Kissing Tree, then Raccoon Run, then moved our school bus out 5th road, semiattached to the 5th road solar house. Then to Nashville for 15 years..."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (08:30)", "body": "Who were your neighbors and friends on the Farm?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Mon, Jul  2, 2001 (08:50)", "body": "I'm going to just take a stab at this memory, it was 25 years ago. Past the flour mill and take a right at the first road. First house on the left was where Robert and Virginia, James and Judith, and can't remember the other couple's name, John Shneider and his new wife whoever. Karen and I shared the bus with John and ? That was spring thru winter '76, tho we didn't stay in that house the whole time. I was a tripper for real, and was in and out of the gate, trying to escape the fix-me crew. I even thought I could escape it by moving to another house on the Farm, like they'd be into some whole other philosophy or something. Eventually, I realized I'd have to move off the Farma and started working in Nashville. Karen eventually divorced me and I was back in the world again."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul  2, 2001 (09:51)", "body": "Robert and Virginia and James and Judith Dodge were some of the real Farm heavyweight movers and doers. John and Charlotte? What are you doing these days, Don?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Mon, Jul  2, 2001 (14:17)", "body": "Hi Paul, also there was John Coate and his wife at the time. I was a graphic artist for 12 years and made webpages part-time for the last 6 years. Just in January my company has been letting me do webpages full-time and I also figured a way to make low-cost cds for them using cheap shareware and pdf. My fourth wife and I have been together now 8 years, I was relocated twice, once to Philadelphia and then to Raleigh. Oh also at that house was Lee _____ and his wife, Lee filmed Stephen's talks. I lived in Santa Cruz county in California for most of the time after I left Tennessee with some time spent in Oregon, Washington, Colorado and Arizona. I lived for 8 years 2 blocks from the boardwalk in Santa Cruz which was pretty nice. We bought a house in an \"intentional\" community 3 years ago, but only intentional in that it's ecologically intentional. Not a spiritual community by any stretch. The idea is to live in harmony with the earth, not destroy the forests, be considerate of your neighbors, don't make a huge profit from the development of the community. I give the creator of this idea a lot of credit for something do-able for the average person. Here's a link http://www.altadore.com/ . We bought 11 acres for less than $4k per, and our total payout was around $150k which won't buy you an old fixer upper in the bay area. That's with a new house, we bought one of those factory-built modulars that they truck in on semis then hoist onto the foundation with a crane. 1800 sq ft for $75k which is pretty cheap for a house of that size. The subcontracting was a pain but well worth it."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul  3, 2001 (09:17)", "body": "That's pretty neat. I see on your map a\bthat most of the lots are sold, especially along Stinking Creek. These are nice size lots, what are the remaining 10, 11 and 23 acre lots going for and why are these still for sale? (less desireable location?). That altadore is a very well designed website, it's cool the way you can click on a parcel and see pictures of it. What other websites have you done? Is this intentional community in the Santa Cruz area, the website doesn'tt really say where it is except that it's on the Pittsboro Moncure Road, wherever that is."}, {"response": 7, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Thu, Jul  5, 2001 (09:21)", "body": "-Sounds like you go by Terry, right? That's pretty neat. I see on your map that most of the lots are sold, especially along Stinking Creek. -yeah, we lucked out and got one of those lots along the creek when we bought almost 4 years ago. We were actually the first \"official\" people to move in. These are nice size lots, what are the remaining 10, 11 and 23 acre lots going for and why are these still for sale? (less desireable location?). -Around 60k for 10-11 acres. Yes, the property features aren't as nice. They all have 15 year growth evergreen which is about 20 feet tall and still kind of spindly. But they grow pretty quickly. They're still nice lots and a good price. That altadore is a very well designed website, it's cool the way you can click on a parcel and see pictures of it. What other websites have you done? -I didn't do that one, but I know how they did it. I co-designed our company's site http://energy.tycoelectronics.com/ . This guy in Germany did most of the work, but I know how he did everything but the javascript pulldowns. I'm just learning how to do that. Is this intentional community in the Santa Cruz area, the website doesn'tt really say where it is except that it's on the Pittsboro Moncure Road, wherever that is. -It's in the Raleigh, North Carolina area. 15 miles south of Chapel Hill and 5 miles west of Jordan Lake which is this large man-made reservoire. It's a nice area, but in NC, they do a tremendous amount of clear-cutting of the forests, and they just rape the shit out of them when they do. Pick the best trees and just doze everything else and leave it all scattered. When they do that it looks like a bomb was dropped almost. But then everyone wants wood and paper and plywood so that's a problem. Our community is at least not cutting all the trees, but everyone's house is made of wood, and even tho no hunting is allowed, most of the people I've met there eat meat, so there's a bit of hypocrisy going on there. I'm vegetarian but our house is wood and I print on paper, etc. The answer is in plastics, like that guy told Dustin Hoffman in The Graduate. I think there's probably synthetic materials that could be developed tofunction like wood."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul  5, 2001 (09:43)", "body": "So, do you have a home page? Hey, we're missing Ragweed today! I guess some of us have to work. Maybe next year?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Mon, Jul  9, 2001 (09:08)", "body": "As a matter of fact I do have a homepage http://ourworld-top.cs.com/Oak1day566/index.htm where I've been doing my own do-it-yourself bodhisattva thing, entrapping people to work towards their own awakening by helping others, I'm not especially happy with that site, thinking of completely renovating it and doing something completely different. The new theme would be along the lines of \"awakening isn't weird, it's just natural\" and it's the so-called normal people who are aberrated. I still remember seeing someone show me this video clip of people walking on Telegraph Avenue in Berkely and everyone was walking backwards but this one long haired guy was walking forwards. I'm just starting to understand why awakened folks thruout history have had such compassion for the suffering masses. Never been to ragweed! Never been back to the Farm since I left 25 years ago either! It's kind of like this video of Stephen that I have where he's talking to kids at Wellesley College and he said some people realized they were Republicans and asked themselves what they were doing living on the Farm. For me the Farm was for Saints and I never was one of those nor did I ever aspire to be. I think that's a realization I just haven't had yet. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 4, "subject": "saving the world", "response_count": 42, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "marcury", "date": "Thu, Aug 29, 1996 (22:58)", "body": "Beats me. Snorg"}, {"response": 2, "author": "william", "date": "Thu, Sep  5, 1996 (00:52)", "body": "No one's interested in saving the world? Does that mean no one's aware of what's going on? Surely there must be someone out there who has a clue?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "william", "date": "Sun, Sep  8, 1996 (23:55)", "body": "How do we save the Headwater redwood grove for starters? (Does anybody know of any recent developments with that?) And, for the larger picture, how can we stop the ongoing devastation of the earth by clearcutting? A recent visit to the Northwest coastal forests revealed a situation beyond the worst imaginings. Defenders of the natural ecology have been chaining themselves to big trees, even spiking them to kick back chainsaws in loggers' faces. What's the answer?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Sep 14, 1996 (14:48)", "body": "The biggest solution to deforestation is the production of industrial grade hemp. What one also needs to remember about the US forest service is that it is part of the department of agriculture, so that needs to be fixed also. Demographical balance? You mean like One World Race, One World Government, One World Religion? I have to disagree. That would do the same to people and ideas that commercial farming has done to plant differentiation. Gotta run for now, peace, love, and sunshine."}, {"response": 5, "author": "william", "date": "Sun, Sep 15, 1996 (23:04)", "body": "Demographical balance means stabilizing the population of the world so that it doesn't consume and destroy the natural environment which gave birth to it -- and which still sustains it. Balancing the birth/death ratio (otherwise known as ZPG) would at least give the planet a fighting chance. Rather than encouraging world homogeneity, it would encourage cultural diversity and the preservation of native cultures, by lessening the rate of their absorption into a multinational economy of endlessly explosive growth. Industrial-grade hemp to take the load off the forests is a good idea, but one not likely to be realized for years to come, as the silly debate about legalizing cannabis goes on and on. The last of the virgin forests, meanwhile, are falling."}, {"response": 6, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep 18, 1996 (14:29)", "body": "Dismissing an idea because it would take years to achieve is defeatist. ZPG, or better yet, negative population growth will also not be realized in the immediate future because of religion. However, much like decriminalizing industrial-grade hemp, it is worthy of educating yourself and others about. On the topic, are you familiar with the Church of Euthanasia? Sounds like even if you disagree, you might get a kick out of their materials. They are on the web, but their address is lost in my head at the moment. WER"}, {"response": 7, "author": "william", "date": "Fri, Sep 20, 1996 (00:18)", "body": "You're mostly right about ZPG\ufffdbeing stymied by religion, but it's worthy of note that the Dalai Lama of Tibet -- our preeminent Buddhist -- has come out in strong support of planetary birth control. In light of Tibet's shrinking population and the forced abortions and sterilizations imposed on Tibetans by the Chinese, one would imagine it would be even harder for the Dalai Lama to throw his weight behind that. But he has -- short of abortion encouragement. Church of Euthanasia is a relevant topic. Buddhists, who believe in infinite future reincarnations, are down on any form of suicide, including by consent (a la Kevorkian), out of concern for messing up one's karma."}, {"response": 8, "author": "boyce2", "date": "Fri, Sep 20, 1996 (17:45)", "body": "What's so great about old-growth forests? How many of them is enough? Does anyone really know that ZPG is necessary? How can you know what technology will be developed in the future? How can you know what population that technology will enable the earth to support?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "mmc", "date": "Mon, Sep 23, 1996 (12:39)", "body": "Good questions. The interesting thing about ecosystems like old-growth forests and rainforests is that they are so rich in diversity. A friend of mine is a biologist at the California Academy of Sciences, and he says that biologists estimate that there are literally millions of unclassified species of plants and animals. Since they're not classified, we have no idea what their role in the biosphere might be, or what beneficial uses they might eventually offer. Since we don't know, there's considerable risk in eliminating them before we find out. It's sort of like the Hippocratic oath, which suggests that, first, we do no harm. Paul Ehrlich, who wrote *Population Bomb* in the late '60s or so, was a persuasive apologist for ZPG back then. Since then we've added a couple of billion people and watched the planetary ecosystem deteriorate, losing a couple of species a day to extinction, experiencing global warming, hitting the wall on the green revolution, having trouble finding enough drinking water, etc. In order to enjoy the technological benefits that may be developed in the future, it's necessary that we *have* a future; and at the rate we're going, that's actually in question."}, {"response": 10, "author": "fig", "date": "Mon, Sep 23, 1996 (16:05)", "body": "Certainly, one approach is to \"think globally and act locally.\" Doing so is necessary and makes a big difference. But in many cases, the greatest damage is being done on global scales through the use of industrial pollutants and industrial-level practic es. This includes our American love affair with (and addiction to) the internal combustion engine, China's ramping up to a coal-powered industrial economy, Brazil's wholesaling of the rainforest and the general political climate that forces most underdev loped countries to rely on subsistence farming practices that result in huge losses of arable land. We cannot reach most of the people who would \"act locally\" outside of the U.S. and the wealthy developed world. And if we could, they would think us typical arrogant Americans to try and deny them access to what little wealth they could gain in the short term at the expense of their immediate environment. So, we should look at making a huge difference here at home, first, because our lifestyle uses far more resources per capita than do those of Chinese or Brazilian or Ethiopian peasant farmers. I know first-hand the huge gap between what I consumed on the Farm and what I consume now. There is a happy medium level at which I could survive very well here. But how many Americans are willing to reduce their standards of living voluntarily? Not very many, I'll bet. Maybe if we use the media we have access to as a microphone to educate and illustrate, we can begin to get the point across that if we don't change what we have the power to change in our own backyards, those changes will be made for our children in the f uture in a much more brutal manner. Maybe we can use this medium to show how, in just over a century of industrialization, we have changed the course of Nature to a dangerous one for our children and grandchildren."}, {"response": 11, "author": "mmc", "date": "Mon, Sep 23, 1996 (19:20)", "body": "When I was listening to Helen Caldicott on the radio last week, she said Australia had done a lot of work on photovoltaics, and that the economic factors had changed in the last few years, to the point where photovoltaics were feasible. She said she'd talked to some people at Los Alamos National Labs about using photovoltaics in the desert. She didn't say whether they'd thought it was a good idea. But that's the kind of technological assistance that we could offer to the developing world--of course, you're right that we'd need to adopt it ourselves first. But if we could have China skip the coal-fired and nuclear power plants and go directly to photovoltaics to power their rising standard of living, we could mitigate the negative impact of that many people increasing their demands for goodies. I used to think Al Gore would work in that direction. I'm not so sure any more. I know he understands the science behind energy and population and viability; but I think he figures the politics are against it."}, {"response": 12, "author": "fig", "date": "Mon, Sep 23, 1996 (19:55)", "body": "Let's hope ol' Al was just waiting for a second term. (Of course, then, he won't want to ruin his chances to be president. Damn.) Whoever can get China to go along with a sane development plan will be one hell of a diplomat. Orville Schell, a China expert, seems completely pessimistic about the future there as new industry is creating pollution already on a monumental scale. And p ower generation is just a small part of it. The Yellow River and the Yangtse are on fast tracks to being ruined. Capitalist fever has struck bigtime and nobody wants to follow the Gradual School. This is a case of the U.S. getting what it always wanted diplomatically and now realizing how you have to be careful what you wish for. Where have you gone, Confucius and Bodhidharma?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep 24, 1996 (06:07)", "body": "China and India represent, what, 2 billion out of 6 billion people. And each of these people has a yearly income of a couple hundred dollars. I don't know the exact figures. It's about a third of the worlds population and a tiny fraction of the worlds gnp and goods. If you take these massive numbers and add in expectations of a better life, like the one Clif has in Mill Valley or I have in Austin, then these coal plants have to rev up to provide electricity for all the tvs, computers, telephones, answering machines, refridgerators, microwaves, hair dryers, and other goods that have now become basic necessities. The answer is clearly in low voltage appliances (12 V), solar power, and wireless. China and India don't need massive power and telephone grids, they need cellphones and notebooks with wireless packet. And they need household appliances that use direct current powered by rooftop solar panels. This would make much more sense than coal plants everywhere (though boyce, being a nuclear expert, might recommend another alternative). I hope Gore win will in 2000 and come out of the closet. I hope that the \"closet\", in this case, is a man who cares about the environment as the book he wrote (assisted by Albert Bates) tends to indicate. But I also know that getting elected is the name of the game now and for the next four years he's going to be issuing sound bytes that turn into percentage points in the polls."}, {"response": 14, "author": "william", "date": "Wed, Sep 25, 1996 (00:20)", "body": "What's so great about old-growth forests? What's so great about old people? What's so great about highly evolved species? Or pure water? Or clean air? What's so great about high consciousness or clear light? Some things allow for more life and love, and some things allow for less. \"First do no harm.\" I read occasional pieces in the NYTimes about such things as the prison camps in North Korea and the genocide in Rwanda and the massacre of elephant families in Zaire (? one of those elephant countries in Africa) and wonder if we don't do collective harm as a species by simply existing. China will do nothing to ameliorate the effects of its conversion to fossil-fuel self-indulgence. There's no more recalcitrant a great power on the planet. Our only hope for future environmental preservation is to set so shining an example of how to co-exist wisely and compassionately with the rest of the world that it will be charmed -- yes, charmed and allured and\ufffdinexplicably compelled -- into joining us. I think Gore has the capacity to do that, but our capacity to endure the prevailing cynicism of another four years of Clinton is hard to imagine. Gore has had to backtrack so hard from his visionary environmental politics of the late 80s and early 90s in order to co-exist to Clinton that one wonders if he could ever reach up high enough to get it back. I was moved by his story of his sister's death from cancer, but I was also repelled by his political exhibitionism, and his willingness to do or say anythi g to sway the crowd. I'm voting for Ralph Nader and adding another iota of legitimacy to the Green Party."}, {"response": 15, "author": "boyce2", "date": "Thu, Sep 26, 1996 (13:03)", "body": "> The interesting thing about ecosystems like old-growth forests and rainforests > is that they are so rich in diversity. A friend of mine is a biologist at the > California Academy of Sciences, and he says that biologists estimate that > there are literally millions of unclassified species of plants and animals. > Since they're not classified, we have no idea what their role in the biosphere > might be, or what beneficial uses they might eventually offer. I doubt you'll find any biologist who believes that any unclassified species plays a crucial role in the functionality of the biosphere as a whole. As to what uses we may find in the future for these species, you're absolutely right, we may be shooting ourselves in the foot by eliminating them. But like everything else, you have to weight the potential costs against the potential benefits, otherwise we'd all have to stay in our houses for fear of stepping on the last belgian sand flea. > Since we don't know, there's considerable risk in eliminating them before we > find out. It's sort of like the Hippocratic oath, which suggests that, first, > we do no harm. Impossible. You can't live your life without doing harm to some other creature and impacting in some way some part of the biosphere. You eat, you breathe, you drink, all of these actions change the planet irreversibly, and make life harder for some species and more difficult for others; there's no way around it. That's why the question of RISK is so important, of each action we take we must ascertain the potential benefits, costs and the probabilities of the potential outcomes, and make an informed dec sion based on this information. > In order to enjoy the technological benefits that may be developed in the > future, it's necessary that we *have* a future; and at the rate we're going, > that's actually in question. Technological benefits will not only be enjoyed in the future, they will ENABLE the future of humans on earth. There's no way the earth, even in its most pristine past could have supported 6 billion hunter/gatherers for a year. Technology (primarily agriculture) has enabled this population growth. Future technology may make the earth capable of sustaining even larger populations. > When I was listening to Helen Caldicott on the radio last week, > she said Australia had done a lot of work on photovoltaics, > and that the economic factors had changed in the last few > years, to the point where photovoltaics were feasible. She said > she'd talked to some people at Los Alamos National Labs about > using photovoltaics in the desert. She didn't say whether > they'd thought it was a good idea. I'm consistently surprised that people who advocate environmentally safe power continue to suggest photovoltaics as an alternative. The fact is, no existing technology even comes close to nuclear power in terms of low environmental impact. They're small and clean. Even with 100% conversion rate, the photovoltaic plant necessary to replace a nuclear power plant would be enormous (tens of square miles). The environmental impact of keeping that large a surface area of the earth from ever again seeing the light of day is unknown, but it would certainly involve wholesale changes in the local biosphere. The plant necessary to build the photovoltaics would be considerably smaller, but the chemical processes therein aren't what you'd call clean, involving large volumes of caustic chemicals and toxic solvents. > What's so great about old-growth forests? What's so great about old people? > What's so great about highly evolved species? Or pure water? Or clean air? > What's so great about high consciousness or clear light? Old forests? I don't know, they're fun to hike through, if they're public land. But as far as substantive benefit to the biosphere goes, new growth might be better... Old people? They're fun to have around, they have all that wisdom and stuff. Plus there's their ability to enter into a social contract, and for that they get protected status, as all sentient beings do, at least in this country. Highly evolved species? In a word: sentience. Pure water? Doesn't exist in appreciable quantities, never has. Clean air? Sentient beings seem to like to breathe it, as do their pets. High consciousness? How high is high? Clear light? What the hell is clear light? > \"First do no harm.\" I read occasional pieces in the NYTimes about such things > as the prison camps in North Korea and the genocide in Rwanda and the massacre > of elephant families in Zaire (? one of those elephant countries in Africa > and wonder if we don't do collective harm as a species by simply existing. Bingo, but I'm disenchanted with the alternative... > I'm voting for Ralph Nader and adding another iota of legitimacy to the Green > Party. I think you'll find a world run by Luddites to be dirtier and more violent than you expected."}, {"response": 16, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep 27, 1996 (13:18)", "body": "Extropian, are you boyce2? Or just a very vocal technocrat? It was hard to tell from your responses and dis-(or just mis-)information. What is your ideal carrying capacity for the earth? How about the maximum sustainable population of humanity? At what point do negative returns start because humanity is too large a percentage of the biomass. There is a finite mass to the earth, therefore a finite amount of building materials for more biomass. Anyway, I gotta run for now, WER"}, {"response": 17, "author": "mmc", "date": "Fri, Sep 27, 1996 (13:58)", "body": "Terry said something about you being a nuclear engineer, boyce2? Do you count the fossil fuels used in mining, transporting, refining, transporting, disposing (oops, we don't really have a place to dispose of the stuff yet) of the nuclear fuel in your calculation that it's the cleanest power source in sight? Tens of square miles isn't such a big deal when you look at the Mojave."}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 27, 1996 (15:10)", "body": "I may have misrepresented boyces calling, he's an ME grad student with a strong focus in nuclear energy. Photovoltaics appeal is the fact that it eliminates the onerous grid of wires that run all over our landscape and localizes energy at the household level. I would be curious about boyces response to the disposal issue."}, {"response": 19, "author": "boyce2", "date": "Sun, Sep 29, 1996 (20:16)", "body": "> Do you count the fossil fuels used in mining, transporting, refining, > transporting, disposing (oops, we don't really have a place to dispose > of the stuff yet) of the nuclear fuel in your calculation that it's the > cleanest power source in sight? In a word: Yes. Pick any other source, and you'll find it has similar associated costs. In general these costs are going to run higher because of the comparatively higher volume of machinery (in the case of wind and solar power) or fuel (in the case of coal, oil and natural gas). The only things that're even close in terms of cleanliness are geothermal and hydroelectric power, both of which are intrinsically limited by location and the amount of power that can be generated over time. The key feature of nuclear power as a low contributor to extraneous pollution (that coming from points in the fuel cycle other than the use stage) is the energy density of nuclear fuel. There is as much retrievable energy in a thimbleful of nuclear fuel as in a couple railroad cars full of coal. Hence mining costs, transportation costs, and refining costs are all proportionately smaller, as is fossil fuel use in each of these processes. > Tens of square miles isn't such a big deal when you look at the Mojave. That's true, unless you're an engineer looking to build what would be the largest engineered system ever designed, or an environmentalist looking to stop the devastation of tens of thousands of acres of pristine desert ecosystem, then it starts looking very big indeed. Oh, and another thing, those tens of square miles could replace ONE nuclear power plant, so you'd need 500 times that to service the electrical needs of the entire US. > Photovoltaics appeal is the fact that it eliminates the onerous grid of > wires that run all over our landscape and localizes energy at the household > level. I agree, the most promising use of photovoltaics, and solar power in general, is in the small capacity end use situation, the home. Industrial power almost certainly has to come from a more concentrated source than solar power, which at the distance of earth's orbit, is woefully diffuse. However, I doubt that we'll ever be free of the grid, it enables dependable electricity from disparate sources: energy security. You don't want to lose your hot water because it's overcast in the dead of winter. > I would be curious about boyces response to the disposal issue. Waste disposal? Sure, I can tell you anything you want to know about it. I submit that Yucca mountain, on the Nevada test site, is the ideal place for civilian high level radioactive waste. The surrounding desert is already so crapped up from decades of subterranean nuclear weapons testing that a couple million extra curies in a highly engineered repository is the pollution equivalent of peeing in Boston harbor. The issue at this point is purely political. Get this, the same Nevada legislators that don't want a waste repository, in the past have gotten bent out of shape at lans to curtail bomb testing on the same soil. Clinton will probably veto the current legislation aiming to establish the repository in Nevada in exchange for political favors from these legislators, as most Americans believe that putting high level waste in one national repository is far safer than keeping it onsite at 100 different facilities across the country. The technical problems are essentially solved, the political ones have proven to be more complex."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (02:35)", "body": "Hmm... this is going to be a collected answer to the previous topics, since I've been away for some time... I think the world population isn't the problem at the moment, it is the consuming of goods. By producing the food ecologically, not economically, would enable the world to support at least 10 billion people. There aren't too many people, but too many cars, meat factories and modern fishing vessels. The problem of fresh water is another thing. Theoretically you could clean the water, but in practice it would be impossible. Water is as essential to life as oxygen, but we are wasting both of them carelessly. There's limited amount of both, and actually the amount of oxygen is decreasing, since some molecules gain escape velocity all the time. And, of course, there's the issue of energy. Our culture requires ridiculous amounts of energy in the form of electricity and heat. A Finnish researcher pointed out that using electricity for heating is a great fallacy, since the electricity is at first produced by heat. IT's like re-inventing the wheel. He also said that using fission energy to produce electricity is uneconomical because of the low gain ratio. According to him, the only plausible use of fission is heat production. In our discussion we found it quite strange that many scientist dislike nuclear power, and the situation with engineers is just the opposite... Saving of the world begins from your own head. After all, there are about 5.8 billion of those heads... The main point in the western countries is of course to cut down consumption. I find it strange, that the Chinese or the Africans live in poverty, while some of us have two cars, two houses and surplus of preprocessed food... Reminds me of Mahatma Gandhi. When a reporter asked him what was his opinion about the western civilization, he replied: \"I think it would be a good idea.\" Yes, it would."}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  2, 1996 (18:06)", "body": "What a great Ghandi quote."}, {"response": 22, "author": "mmc", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (16:37)", "body": "Indeed. Mika-Petri, do you have any ideas on how to move the \"advanced\" countries more towards restraint in their consumption? The U.S. made some token efforts under Jimmy Carter - tax credits for solar energy, for example - but I haven't seen anything since then."}, {"response": 23, "author": "bob99", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "What about the news reports of mutated frogs all over the country? For those who missed it, frogs have been showing up with one leg, three legs, or no legs. Other anomolies have been even more groteque. Is this an ecological problem? Is anyone paying attention or are the naysayers still in the ascendance?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "bob99", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "What about the news reports of mutated frogs all over the country? For those who missed it, frogs have been showing up with one leg, three legs, or no legs. Other anomolies have been even more groteque. Is this an ecological problem? Is anyone paying attention or are the naysayers still in the ascendance?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "bob99", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "What about the news reports of mutated frogs all over the country? For those who missed it, frogs have been showing up with one leg, three legs, or no legs. Other anomolies have been even more groteque. Is this an ecological problem? Is anyone paying attention or are the naysayers still in the ascendance?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "bob99", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "What about the news reports of mutated frogs all over the country? For those who missed it, frogs have been showing up with one leg, three legs, or no legs. Other anomolies have been even more groteque. Is this an ecological problem? Is anyone paying attention or are the naysayers still in the ascendance?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (09:56)", "body": "(TO mmc) Well, I am growing more and more cynical day by day. I fear that the only thing that really makes the \"advanced\" countries to cut down their consumption is the to-be invasion of the chinese and indian people. It is a sad vision, but I'm afraid it CAN happen (of course, that wouldn't be a problem in the USA - you are protected by the oceans...) When 3 billion people run out of food, they can get it by simply walking to somewhere where food exists. And they will walk over the previous inhabitants. Scary thought, isn't it?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "mmc", "date": "Thu, Mar  6, 1997 (12:21)", "body": "Not the kind of thing one wants to think about in this day and age. But not necessarily how things are going to happen, either. For one thing, the \"advanced\" countries have all these lovely weapons to keep the starving multitudes at bay. And who knows, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse may still have their mounts. Or, on a more cheerful note, perhaps China's birth-control policy will bear fruit and their pepole will bear fewer children. And there's always the dream that China will skip some of the unfortunate portions of the Industrial Revolution and move directly into the Information Age. Of course, they'll still have to figure out how to feed all their people, and the more they participate in the Information Age, the more they're going to want chickens instead of rice, which is going to be a problem. Maybe we should all get together and form a venture capital fund and start a company in Guangzhou making solar cookers..."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Everest", "date": "Sat, Jul  5, 1997 (14:19)", "body": "response to Boyce: old growth, new growth, I don't care, take your pick. Plants produce photosynthesis that supply all of us something to breath. Unfortunately, Boyce, has it occured to you that almost all of the logging and forest clearing are to create new land for human expansion, not to plant new trees? Forests also moderates temperature. In hot weather it keeps the surroundig cool, and in cold weather it keeps the surrounding warm. Just spend enough time between forests and a barren land or city and you will know. Forests also keeps our landscape from eroding, provides habitats for other life and creatures. And I believe that most biologist (if not all) think there is an incredible amount of \"hidden tresures\" in the rain forest, and therefore, do everything to preserve them. To say that we can continue to do whatever as we please because some solution will be developed in the future to sustain more human population is dangerous and fallacious. As one reader puts it, we must do something now to guarantee that we have a future. Who is to promise that a solution will be developed? What we do to remedy the deteriorating environmental situation today, we can see and benefit immediately, and that is what counts in the long run. The advent of industrial revolution had accelerated the rate at which we populate this planet and our consumption of natural resources. This planet has supported human for hundreds of millions of years, so don't sweat, it will \"somehow\" deal with the problems human created and continue to sustain human (and other life on earth)? Maybe, but I don't think it's a pretty scenario. In fermentation, as in jar of crushed grapes and some yeast, the yeast consumes the sugar and produce (or you can say \"excrete\") aldehyde, alcohol (and perhaps other things), but when the amount of alcohol becomes to much, it kills the yeast and your fermentation process stops. In a petri dish with agar as food and some bacterial culture, if you have various species of bacteria, some might kill off other, but in the end, those dominant strain still die out (or at least stopped expanding, maybe fall into dormant mode)when the agar is all gone. I am not a biologist (but reasonably good in biology back in school), but that's how I understand the nature world. I am for nuclear enengy, but at the same time, we need to \"roll back\" our lifestyle, reduce consumption, recycle what we can (including re-using things that are still functional). Save the planet begins in our own home and backyard. There are 6 billion people, if each one re-use or recycle just one item in their household a year, we have 6 billion fewer pieces of junk in our landfill (not counting other resources comsumed to produce the replacement for those 6 billion items). Well, in my book, 6 billio items is quite a lot, no matter how small the items are. On a different note: I think manufactures show be required to recycle what they produce, not just the end product, the the raw material they use to produce the goods, including those chemicals. And I think government should only give company license to produce something when all ingredients can be properly recycled or reclaimed. I cringe everytime I have to throw away those plastic contains with recycle number 3, 4, 5, or 6 because no company reclaim them for recycling. They are labled such supposedly for future use, when the technology (or more economical technology) becomes available. Why in hell are we making it if we don't know how to re-use it or reclaim it? And given the availability of #1 and #2 recyclable plastic, why don't governments just require company to use those two for the time being? Now I try my best to avoi buying things in plastic containers other than #1 and #2. I think it will also do good for most people in developed countries to visit poor countries to see how wasteful we are in our lifestyle. Charles"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Jason", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (00:22)", "body": "I lean towards more of the Greenpeace/Edward Abbey school of thought when it comes to this issue. Opinions vary... Even if no direct action is taken at all, the potential for it exists. This, of course, won't change the lifestyles of billions of people. I do believe that we are as a species inherently destructive. I'd like to see widespread negative population growth. This, of course, will likely happen due to our own stupidity. More people=more environmental destruction. So far it's been a valid theory."}, {"response": 31, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jun 23, 1998 (16:21)", "body": "I can't help but think that if there were a solution, it would be communism - but that didn't work, unfortunately. On the other hand, the USA is so good at capitalism - perhaps they could make it work?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Roan", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (03:40)", "body": "Actually, there is a force involved beyond the human mind, and it is what is powering the changes towards sanity. Ego based thought is a dead end for solutions. We didn't evolve to fail. We evolved for a purpose, and it is evident if social axioms are reviewed and rejected. First, We are Universe being aware of itself. Locally, we are this planetary ecosystem being aware of itself. We are not designed to destroy it or ourselves. All the stuff going on is much like a birthing. It is very intense and for the child, powerful. The struggle is between artifical and unnatural human GIGO systems and the force that evolved us. We are far more than we can THINK we are and can change in the blink of an eye. I have seen, personally, that force in operation, and to my amazement, saw thousands of human beings with all kinds of personal opinions and convictions change their mind in the face of something invisible but mind and heart changing. The world was at stake, although none of the people at the time knew it, and to save the world, all those people had to change their minds and do the right thing in the face of a life behind bars, and they did it! Observing this changed my life, and years later, as the rest f the story came to me from various sources, I realized what it was that I perceived. The idea that there are greater forces affecting Humanity than individual egos and cultural habits is rejected by almost everyone, but I know it to be true and see it now in a lot of what goes on in the world behind the scenes. It does not show in the media, but it does on the Internet. The Farm was right in there in the effects of that force. Yes, I think the birthing could fail, but it is unlikely. That doesn't mean we can sit back and wait for things to happen, because it still works through human behavior, through us. I am being a bit vague, I know, but I don't want to write a book on here. (g) Peace and Good Health, -Roan"}, {"response": 33, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (22:51)", "body": "go ahead and write the book... we don't mind"}, {"response": 34, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, May 10, 1999 (07:15)", "body": "You cannot \"save\" the world. It *is* and will be. Just different, either way. But you can't \"save\" it, unless you'd stop time. What would that gain? You would have saved the world from changing. Great. No changes. Just frozen like tha"}, {"response": 35, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, May 10, 1999 (13:45)", "body": "so our actions are unimportant in the grand scheme of things then?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, May 11, 1999 (06:06)", "body": "Who said that? Not me! I was just nitpicking on the phrase \"Save The World\". You can't do that, unless you'd freeze it in time to stop changes. Somebody else might be able to do that, but I'm surely not. The questions coming out of your question are: (a) Is there a Grand Scheme Of Things ?, and (b) Are our actions important or not? As to (a), I love conspiracy theories for their entertainment value, but I have no answer \"YES!\" to that question. Only another question: \"So what?\", or rather \"What difference would it make?\" Would I lead a different life if there were (or weren't)? Would I stop trying? From this results for (b) that our actions might not have impact on any scheme, but surely impact on our lifes and the lifes of those around us (even in virtuspace). In our social and ecological and economical environments, our actions of course are important (maybe a mikroimportance, but still). But I don't need a scheme to see that, whether or not it exists."}, {"response": 37, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, May 11, 1999 (10:53)", "body": "oh, I've always thought to scheme's the theme..."}, {"response": 38, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, May 12, 1999 (10:03)", "body": "Some people are into that. \"Scheming bastards\", they're called on tv. I wouldn't want to be called that. How about you? The theme might be: Make it to the end of the day with as little suffering as possible, while creating as little hurt as possible. You'll meet everybody again next morning. And you don't need any karma-story or superior being or the like to understand that concept (though it doesn't collide with that either, if you hold those ideas dear)."}, {"response": 39, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Feb  8, 2000 (21:41)", "body": "This is amazing stuff and a lot of idealism and even a little realism here and there. Right about the industrial hemp, negative population and all that. I think unless we abliterate the place, the ants and roaches will inherit the earth long after human kind has done their worst, if Hawaii is any indication..."}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (08:20)", "body": "See my comments in the Farm Net News topic about Karen Flaherty and what she's dowing these days."}, {"response": 41, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Jul 19, 2000 (12:30)", "body": "Missed ragweed again, doggone."}, {"response": 42, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Jul 19, 2000 (15:51)", "body": "Please explain - or is this in code??? *grin* farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 5, "subject": "Williams Meyers", "response_count": 5, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep  9, 1997 (08:46)", "body": "UPDATE III 9 September 1997 Dear Friends, Here's the latest: Still working as desktop publisher in the production department at Columbia University Press, I work with book designers in laying out books -- using the software program QuarkXPress on a Macintosh \"Power PC\" computer to do the on-screen \"electronic paste-up\" now required to prepare all the pages of a book (both typography and graphics) and perfect them in every detail before sending the book off (on disk) to be printed and bound. After taking two graphic-design courses in the spring, I came up with a small typographical portfolio that may be of some use in the future. I'll be putting together a basic book-design portfolio during the rest of the summer and the fall. By the end of the year I should be ready to take on some book-design jobs of my own. The design director at CUPress has been helping me out with this effort. I'm still sub-letting a beautiful apartment in Washington Heights, north of the George Washington Bridge, with a view of the bridge and the Hudson River. It's in a co-op apartment building which has limitations on the amount of time an apartment can be sub-leased -- but, providing I get the approval of the co-op board at the end of each year, I could still be at the same address for as long as another two and a half years. Whenever I have to move, I would want to stay in the same neighborhood. It's only seven subway stops away from the Columbia campus, where I work, and a relatively short commute each day. Also, of course, the rent level there is right for me -- and, by now, the neighborhood feels like home. All our family's kids seem to be doing well. Henry is happily married to Kitty in Washington, DC, and continues to take on increasing responsibility in the Environmental Protection Agency. Christine continues to work as a physician's assistant in a family-practice clinic in Seattle, but has been giving serious thought to doing volunteer medical work abroad. Genevieve will be returning in the fall to the California School of Arts & Crafts in Oakland for her second year of study toward a degree in art. Rose graduated from the Chicago Institute of Art two years ago and remains in Chicago, working in computer graphics. Mary's ashes, in the meantime, have dissolved into the Atlantic. Since her death, I have been a practicing Buddhist, and for the most part I study the teachings of the Dalai Lama as an educational aid to my own meditation. This year I took my two weeks of vacation in June in order to attend the Dalai Lama's three days of teachings in upstate New York; four days of teachings in Los Angeles; and the Peacemaking Conference in San Francisco, where Nobel Peace Prize laureates Josi Ramos Hortas of East Timor, Rigoberta Mencchu of Guatemala (her sister, actually, standing in for her), and His Holiness the Dalai Lama, among other major human-rights advocates (such as Harry Wu), addressed the issues of nonviolent conflict resolution among inner-city youth and the active use of civil disobedience to protest human-rights violations around the world. I also relate especially well to the teachings of Tibetan Buddhism as passed down through the Western mind of Prof. Robert Thurman, the preeminent academic authority on the subject, who conveniently teaches at Columbia University and lives nearby. I helped to get Prof. Thurman signed up with CUPress to edit a reference volume on Eastern religions, and am hoping to be able to work in some editorial capacity on that. I already edit his audiocassette albums for Tibet House, here in New York, and recently published an edited version of one of his Basic Buddhism lectures in the local (and L.A.) journal Free Spirit. That could lead to a book of such lectures, which we've been talking about with a friendly publisher. I'm also still connected -- hanging by a thread, as yet unbroken -- to the New York art-book publisher Stuart, Tabori & Chang, through my literary agent Sara Jane Freyman, with the proposal for an illustrated biography, The Dalai Lama of Tibet. The editor there asked in January for ten more pages, in addition to the three interior pages and cover painting originally submitted, to reassure her colleagues of our ability to sustain a dramatic and sequential narrative in an illustrated format. By September I hope to be able to turn in five new pages, inked and colored, for their review, in the hope that five pages, and not ten, will allay any anxieties or uncertainties about our capabilities. I believe the combined illustrative forces of my friends Dennis Janke, Marjorie Strauss, and Marc Greene should be enough to convince anyone on that point -- but production is a long-term, time-consuming task when there is no seed/support money and everyone must fit in the project, wherever possible, around the demands of their paying jobs. A contract with an advance would make a tremendous difference, but publishers are very cautious and conservative these days -- they're losing money as ne"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep  9, 1997 (08:53)", "body": "20 January 1997 To bring all my friends up to date at once, here's what's been happening with me: * I've been working long hours at Columbia University Press, working with designers in the production of books with QuarkXPress; I've also begun taking some classes in basic design & typography at the Fashion Institute of Technology in order to acquire and expand my own skills in book design. And I've been learning how to put this all presentably on a Web site with the assistance of my friend Marc Greene. It's been a long time coming, but the site is due for a major expansion soon, with a new art gallery, among other things. * The Dalai Lama of Tibet -- the Illustrated Life Story has been my major personal project for the last three years. My feeling for a long time has been that the book would be a hot and highly marketable item if it came out before the release of the upcoming movies about the Dalai Lama -- Kundun by Scorsese; Seven Years in Tibet by Annaud; and two or three others in the works, one by Oliver Stone. But the first two movies mentioned are due to be released by the end of 1997, and any book we return to work on now, should a publisher finally offer us a contract, would need at least two years to be produced and distributed. I would anticipate spin-off comic (or graphic-novel) versions of these movies, once the money has been generated to finance them. It's been frustrating for the last year and a half, having conceived of the idea originally and wanting to come out first with the best. Money has been a problem all along in getting the project moving. The first artist I asked to collaborate with me on the book -- Eva Van Dam, the Dutch artist responsible for the graphic novel called The Magic Life of Milarepa, which inspired this one -- demanded $500 a page to produce anything, even as samples to be included in a proposal. Not having great cash reserves, I had no choice but to look for someone else, then met Alex Grey, and in the forging of a new friendship, got his agreement to produce some sample art for interior pages (with the assistance, also volunteer, of Dennis Janke & Marjorie Strauss, of DC Comics); I also paid Alex a token $1,000 for a cover portrait of the Dalai Lama which could probably sell for ten times that much, and it's such a masterwork in itself that it has lent great weight to the proposal package that's been^Emaking the rounds of publishers, and has helped to keep the project alive. Now, after many attempts by my agent Sara Jane Freyman to find a publisher for the book, we finally have one -- Stuart, Tabori & Chang, \"the illustrated-book publisher\" in New York -- which has expressed enough interest in the project to invite all of us involved with it to their offices for a meeting about it. The editor, Erica Marcus, who called the meeting, liked the idea of a graphic novel based on the life of the Dalai Lama, but had some criticisms of the sample interior pages, particularly the typography, and asked that those pages be done over with some minor changes; and she also asked for eleven additional pages, not in color but finished in black & white -- dealing with the story of the discovery of the young Dalai Lama that brings Part One to an end. She asked for this additional material in order to have a sure sense of our ability to sustain a coherent narrative with a dramatic continuity that's engaging and powerful enough to sell a lot of books. Unfortunately, Alex is no more enamored of rendering sequential art than he ever was -- he just couldn't make the leap, though he gave it a good try -- and has no problem making the money he needs to support his family, being what he undeniably and most fundamentally is: a highly successful painter of visionary art. It was regrettable, I thought, that the art-book editor we met with did not have more appreciation of the potential offered by his being there in her office at all. I was already prepared myself to accommodate Alex to whatever level he felt comfortable with, valuing his collaboration to the greatest extent. But to produce eleven more pages of the Dalai Lama story -- which for Alex can be no other than time-consuming and highly meticulous work, yet with no sure promise of any financial compensation, just the promise to accept the book and push it at the acquisitions meeting -- is, under the circumstances of his life, understandably too much to ask. Even if I were to raise enough money to pay him the $500 apiece for those pages that Eva Van Dam was asking, I think he would probably still prefer not to do it. Having just finished a major work -- an altariece/triptych with seven panels, called The Nature of Mind -- he's hard at work now on his next book. Sara Jane told me after the meeting with the Stuart, Tabori & Chang editor that she thought Erica was right -- that more substantial material for the Dalai Lama story was definitely needed; that this was undoubtedly why the many other publishers who had expressed interest originally"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Feb  5, 1998 (22:25)", "body": "Latest from William: 3 February 1998 This is to let you know that Christine is in the middle of her eight-month trip through southeast Asia, and, after a month in India, is currently trekking in Nepal, with a home base in Kathmandu. She can be contacted there during the first two weeks of February and, wherever she may be on this trip (Thailand and Vietnam are next), by phone and e-mail: Telephone: 1-800-864-8000 206-548-0061# press 1 leave message E-mail: cmeyers38@hotmail.com Mail: c/o Heather Harder 502 South Fremont Avenue, Apt. 622 Tampa, FL 33606 Christine's friend Heather will be leaving on the 24th of this month to rendezvous with her in Bangkok. She will be bringing her any mail we send her. Christine sends her love to everybody and says she looks forward to getting back in August and visiting with us all soon after that. Love to all William"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct  4, 1999 (11:21)", "body": "Something recent by William, who I haven't heard from for a while: http://www.newstrolls.com/news/dev/wmeyers/index.html \"This has been a century of war. Ever since the Great War delivered a traumatic blow to civilization\ufffds sense of permanence and security, the world has endured an unending scourge of increasingly genocidal wars. With the exponential growth of world population and the inevitable conflicts among self-serving and expansive nations, the triumph of militarism as the primary means of conflict resolution has been all but assured. Add a blind dedication to perpetual economic growth, and the result for all of us has been the devastation of life, habitat, and cultural heritage on a formerly unimaginable scale. Many of us have grown used to the enormities and pay little heed to the less than awesomely devastating while whole peoples and cultures\ufffdnot to mention species and ecosystems\ufffdare systematically destroyed. Yet some cultures and systems of belief have evolved to a degree of such beauty and complexity\ufffdand what sometimes seems to be a level of enlightened wisdom\ufffdthat we can\ufffdt help but take notice of their fragility, and feel moved to take some action to save them, because their destruction is simply too painful to watch.\""}, {"response": 5, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Jul 19, 2000 (12:30)", "body": "We do then to overlook these momentous shifts in species and plant life in the morass of sensationalism on the news. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 6, "subject": "Plenty", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "birdinflight", "date": "Sat, Jan 27, 2001 (22:49)", "body": "Plenty was my next to favorite thing about the Farm although it is hard to speak of Farm things in terms of \"favorite\" etc. My son was born on an old schoolbus that had been a Plenty bus, I have always thought of that in a good light. He is altruistic now and always has been I wonder if the Plenty bus had something to do with that. :))"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 12, 2001 (10:31)", "body": "October 10, 2001 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE HURRICANE IRIS SLAMS SOUTHERN BELIZE Hurricane Iris, a compact, category 4 storm bringing 18 foot sea surges, 145 mph winds and six inches of rain slammed into southern Belize Monday night, demolishing hundreds of homes and leaving at least 9,000 people homeless. Today, people are standing around in shock along the roads and beside their ruined homes and demolished crops, wondering what to do next. The rural subsistence farming Mayan villages in Belize's southern Toledo District were hardest hit. Because they are inland, these villages were not prepared for this kind of storm impact. San Pedro Columbia, one of the largest villages in the Toledo District, had 204 homes completely destroyed and 150 badly damaged. The villages of Big Falls and Silver Creek were reported to be \"flattened\". Other villages reportedly hit very hard were Indian Creek, San Marcos, San Miguel, Laguna and Medina Bank. Twenty-six of 56 rural schools in the district are said to have been destroyed. Corn, rice and cacao crops, the source of food and income for local families, have been severely impacted. Immediate and urgent needs are for emergency shelter, food, and water. Fortunately, no loss of life has been reported in the villages. A staff member of Plenty International, a non-profit organization which has worked for 10 years in the Toledo District in health and agriculture projects, relayed this report: \"Martin Ack of San Miguel village told us that there are about 80 houses completely down there, including his own. Another 30 or so lost their roofs. The hand pumps are raising only brown water, and people are afraid to use it, so water is a high priority need there. Food aid is reaching them, and people have some stockpiles that they are saving for when food aid runs out. They got a new water system only a month ago, but now have no power to run it, and are unsure anyway about possible contamination. Power lines are down everywhere. Martin told us how his father did not want to leave the house, but finally, when the wind started getting really strong, he persuaded his mother and brothers to go to the shelter with a concrete roof. He described the sound as like thunder, or a forest fire approaching. Then his father finally agreed to go as well. They made it there about 7:30 PM, and the highest winds came about 8 PM and lasted till about 9 PM. At 11 PM the wind had settled enough to look outside, and that is when they saw the devastation. People were crying, could not believe their eyes.\" \"He advised, and others have confirmed, that rebuilding is going to be extremely difficult. The forest has been reduced to stumps and broken pieces. Cohune palms (used for roofing thatch) are either knocked down or damaged. Mature trees are broken, and young ones are too small or also broken, so few will be usable for thatch, even if people can reach them and drag them back through all the deadfall.\" Plenty International, through its affiliate office in the Toledo District, is providing emergency food aid and potable water and will be working with local and international agencies and friends to help meet the most pressing needs, as well as longer term reconstruction efforts and food aid. If you can help with a donation, we are able to wire money directly to our Belize office within 24 hours. 100% of your donation will be used for emergency relief. Construction volunteers are also needed. For more information, please call (931) 964-4323. To make a tax-deductible donation, please make your check payable to Plenty International - Hurricane Relief, and mail it to PO Box 394, Summertown, TN 38483. In Belize you can mail donations to Plenty Belize, P.O. Box 72 Punta Gorda, Toledo District or call 722198 or email plentybz@btl.net For more updates and photos visit the Plenty website at www.plenty.org or email Plenty International plenty1@usit.net. In a world already suffering from too much devastation, here is more suffering that is not covered in the international media but urgently needs our attention. Thank you. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 7, "subject": "Farm and the Internet - <A HREF=\"http://www.thefarm.org\">http://www.thefarm.org</A>", "response_count": 5, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 30, 2002 (14:23)", "body": "Remarkable collection of Farm pictures! http://www.farmwiki.net:8080/app/serv/"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 30, 2002 (14:27)", "body": "http://www.farmwiki.net:8080/app/serv/Karen%20Flaherty is the Karen Flaherty collection."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 2003 (09:24)", "body": "Rachel and Richard have teamed up to create the ultimate Farm site, the closest thing to being on the Farm in virtual reality. If you want to go back to the Farm and get in to the fray, they have the place. It's pretty much for people who lived on the Farm or who were part of the Farm experience in a significant way. If you're a faint hearted person don't join. It can be a no holds barred, often brutal, work it out sesssion and expect to have someone jump in to your thing right away when you join and reveal the darkest corners of your past. There's a full share of negativity, distorted rumors, second hand information blown out of proportion but theres also some good information. Right now, there's a strong current of discussion about the impending war in Iraq. And there's a lot of great conversation by some really cool people who were, and are, some of the heavy movers and shakers on the Farm. I heard about the list and the farmwiki from Stewart Butler in Austin a couple of weeks back. I was sitting in the Texas French Bread coffeeshop having coffee with Max Nofziger and his Austin Mayor's race campaign team and this big guy with a rasta type hat comes up to our table and says, \"I know you!\" And I said, \"hey, you're Stewart Butler.\" I won't give out any url's for the Farm List or farmlist or the Chat out of respect to Rachel and Richard. You'll have to find your own way to these places. Rachel's place is for Farm people only and Richards is for Farm people and their guests. (edited post)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 2003 (07:41)", "body": "I don't know Stewart Butler very well, except that he's a great wood craftsman and I've heard nothing but good things about his work."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 2003 (07:44)", "body": "Done, Rachel. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 8, "subject": "farming outside the Farm", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 11, 1998 (11:33)", "body": "To: sustag@beta.tricity.wsu.edu Subject: Message from concerned Texas rancher Attention sustag subscribers The government is doing it to us again in Texas -- subsidizing poor stewardship and punishing conservation-minded ranchers. Our current problems began when Texas was recently declared a disaster state due to drought. Such a government declaration will allow ranchers who run out of grass to become eligible for low interest rate loans. Historically, such government policies have done much more harm than good. They encourage ranchers to overstock and oversupply the marketplace, thus, they contribute to instability and low profitability in ranching. Such policies also contribute to overcapitalization of ranchers and natural resource degradation. It is my opinion that any effort to make ranching sustainable, or any effort to protect the environment, will be fruitless endeavors if government continues rewarding high-input, high-risk, debt ridden, resource degrading, short-lived ranching ventures -- and punishing ranchers who take a well managed, low-input, low-risk, non-resource degrading, long-term ranching approach. I believe it is long overdue for government to stop implementing agricultural policies that promote overstocking, oversupplying the marketplace, overcapitalization of ranchers and farmers, and natural resource degradation. Please help me circulate my views to government, educational institutions and people in general before time runs out. It is essential for all of us to take action now! Nol Ward barw@hpnc.com"}, {"response": 2, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (19:56)", "body": "I AGREE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!!!! The PIK program is another example of government subsidy gone wrong. I owned a wheat farm for 10 years. I made a deal with a local farmer to farm it. He did all the work, I paid all the expenses. He got 1 third and I got 2 thirds of the crop. The first year I had the place, he told me about PIK and what to do. We fertilized like crazy, Hauled water in by the tanker load, irrigated like crazy. From land that would normally yield 18-24 bushels per acre, we got 66. Then we resented paperwok to the Government certifying our harvest, and for the next 9 years the Government gave us 66 bushels an acre not to bring a crop in. That first year I broke even, after that I just sat back and raked it in. All my partner had to do was plant the crop, and file the paperwork. The government would rubber stamp it. and then we'd lease out the young crop for grazing so that there would be no harvest. All fine and legal. farm conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 9, "subject": "Why the Farm failed", "response_count": 42, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 22, 1999 (14:33)", "body": "I posed this very series of questions to Matthew McClure recently and his response: I think the Farm failed for a number of reasons. - People got disenchanted with living in poverty, especially those who were working hard while others were hardly working. - People who had previously thought of Stephen as a living Buddha began to question his realization. I think that was the big one, actually. - People felt that there was a class system on the Farm, that people who were close to Stephen got more access to goodies than others. I don't know whether it could ever be resurrected. \"Ever\" is a long time, so I wouldn't want to rule it out; but there's still a lot of unpleasant feelings among people who left--and among people who still live there towards people who left. So I kind of doubt that the Farm, per se, in Tennessee, is likely to have a serious renaissance. On the other hand, all things are possible with Allah."}, {"response": 2, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jan 23, 1999 (01:33)", "body": "hmmm..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Roan", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (05:14)", "body": "It will become more than 'The Farm' and based upon the teachings of a single man... The Farm-like land-based community environment will eventually be the way the world will be. Not quite the same as the Farm, but in it's essence, the same. The Farm was an experiment, and much was learned, enough to show that small tight communities are excellent for living sane and safe. This is not the immediate future though. Perhaps in a hundred years, perhaps more. The fact is, history never repeats itself, because technology, population, and the environment has always continously changed. Some of the new indicators which I think will have an effect are; the rich countries have a very negative population growth now, there is a slow realization that comprehensively designed technology does not have to harm the environment, there are new forms of government being discovered, There is mo e communication between people every day globally, and the concept of money as some kind of natural conceptual system is being questions more and more every day... As to the Farm's reasons for breaking apart, I think there were four reasons also; -We had gone from a Mahayana social orientation to a heirarchy, and the heirarchy sold us out, -We had outside government blackops efforts to divide and dissolve us. I saw this happening during the last year or so of the Farm but couldn't pin it down or get evidence, but it allowed me to predict the demise of the collectivity almost exactly. I was trained in black ops, and worked against it at the time, but with a heirarchy running us, I was unable to do anything much. It only takes two operatives to destroy any group. -The census we had showed two major age peaks on the Farm, the adults and a wave of kids. Our teen 'wave' had a majority of kids who thought the Farm adults were stupid and really keeping them from living the rich interesting lives they saw on television. They actively destroyed everything they could manage to destroy. I have had a number of them come to me and apologise for that time. Also, the low opinion many in the heirarchy had of the average farm person was stupid. We did not have to be poor or just work our bodies. Ideas, any ideas, were simply ignored except those from the inner circle of the heirarchy, and they thought we were all too stupid to listen to and only worth the work our bodies could do. They managed our meetings like a bunch of teachers managing a kindergarden class of retards, and frankly most of the Farm were too scared of the heirarchy to speak up. The Farm was t e smartest gathering of people I have ever seen, and the heirarchy just wasted all that mindpower. As I said, we were politically naive."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Roan", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (05:16)", "body": "Imagine millions of Farms..."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (08:34)", "body": "Could you explain the term \"Mahayana social orientation\" and why adhering to this would have kept the Farm intact. What could have happened differently to avert the Farm's demise. And using words like \"fail\" and \"demise\" are not stated as fact, as many may believe the Farm was a success throughout, so I'm tossing these out to stir some discussion and provide representation for those who do feel this way."}, {"response": 6, "author": "akia", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (21:16)", "body": "Hi, why did The Farm fail?? -We had gone from a Mahayana social orientation to a heirarchy, and the -heirarchy sold us out, for real, Stephen doesn't like to mention that The Farm was payed off with \"pauper monk\"'s inheritances...not thru anything HE did. -We had outside government blackops efforts to divide and dissolve us. I saw -this happening during the last year or so of the Farm but couldn't pin it down -or get evidence, this seems a bit paranoid...but I must say I was gone in like 1980. what kinda \"black ops\" are we talking about?? -Also, the low opinion many in the heirarchy had of the average farm person was -stupid. We did not have to be poor or just work our bodies. Ideas, any ideas, -were simply ignored except those from the inner circle of the heirarchy, this did hurt us a LOT -and frankly most of the Farm were too scared of the heirarchy to speak up. I'll admit I'm guilty here, I chose to just leave instead of making major combat as a lowly single man."}, {"response": 7, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Feb  5, 1999 (23:59)", "body": "not to but in, but: - Ideas, any ideas, were simply ignored except those from the inner circle of the heirarchy, and they thought we were all too stupid to listen to and only worth the work our bodies could do. This is something I hope to avoid here on the Spring. So, if anyone has any suggestions concerning the Spring as a whole, or any of the topics (and I hope that everyone does a little exploration around here...) please post your thoughts... now, back to your regularly scheduled conversation..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb  6, 1999 (10:39)", "body": "Yeah, that black ops thing threw me too. We have a paranoid guy on Austin public tv always talking about black helicopters circling over his house. What is this rage with the color black and conspirators?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Roan", "date": "Mon, Feb  8, 1999 (05:59)", "body": "I know of the conspiracy paranoia, and don't put much credit into most of it, but you do have to realize that the military/industrial complex had an almost bottomless secret cash drawer during the cold war years. They set up all kinds of secret operations. They are called Black Ops because they were hidden, like behind the secrecy. The rumors are like 'purloined letter' strategy, where if some info gets out, they flood those who pay attention with a million slightly different versions of that info, so nob dy can figure out which is true. This is a standard procedure in Information Warfare, taught even when I was in in 1968. I was trained by the CIA. If you were a car mechanic, would you be able to tell if someone had 'messed with' a car? Like took a sledge to the engine block? (grin) There is an equation which allows two or more agents to dissolve any sized group based upon a hierarchical organization. This may have been why we generated a hierarchy, because without a hierarchy the formula doesn't work. How that works is obvious if you know the formula, and I could see it happening on the Farm. At least two people were worki g it, and it was working. Even Stephen was caught in it, in that the data he was getting was highly filtered, so he had little idea of what was actually going on. Leaders, in the formula, are isolated, and data is filtered through the agents. I tested this when one Sunday, Stephen got up and said that our books were completely transparent and anyone could see them anytime. Someone had told him that, and he believed them. So, Monday morning, I went up to the Foundation office and asked to see the books. I sat there an hour or more, waiting, and finally a couple of guys came down and told me I should be out working, not sitting there. I told them I was following up on what Stephen had said at Sunday services and wanted to see the books. After they tried every excuse they could come up with, some obviously pure lies because they contradicted each other, they told me they were not going to show me the books, period. I knew then it was confirmed. A agency was indeed working in our community to destroy it. Later, after the dissolution, I found out that the Farm had been declared a 'domestic terrorist organization', which frees up huge amounts of funds to be used in breaking up such 'terrorist' groups. Who sold out? I don't know. Another, a previous indicator, was when I was doing Gate one morning. A guy came in and zeroed in on me. It was suggested that I take him with me as I went around doing trickle charge work, so I did. During the day, he kept checking out the houses we went to, looking under the floor platforms, looking into sheds, etc, and was obviously more than just curious. He asked me all kinds of questions, sometimes the same questions worded differently, obviously trying to get me to say something he was looking for. After about 6 hours of working together, I managed to turn it on him, and in the next hour he told me he had been sent to the Farm by the CIA with two purposes, one, to check up on me, since I was one of several people on the Farm with Gorilla /countergorilla warfare training, very useful to terrorists, and second, to see if he could detect any sign of weapons or explosives. It turned out he had been trained in the same Special Forces unit I had been in, in the next room in the barracks, which is why they picked him. He even showed me his CIA credentials and his drivers license from Saudi Arabia, his last assignment. I took him to the machine shop, the motor pool, and back through the woods, giving him a through tour of the Farm to show him what we really were, and he left thinking hard about what he had been doing. But, it revealed more by the fact he had arrived at the gate precisely when I was about to get off Gate Duty, and I am sure he had a description of me, which meant someone on the Farm had set up the meeting who knew I was going to be there right then. Perhaps the same person suggested that I take him around with me, which suggests that there were two Farm people who were working together with the CIA in that instance. The indicators I perceived were many and varied, although not as clear as those two. Someone was taking a sledge hammer to the block, and it was obvious to me. Paul asked what I meant by 'Mahayana' social system... in a Mahayana social system, everyone is seen as equal in their basic person, even if they have made mistakes. I saw that there was a basic Mahayana system on the Farm when I arrived, and it was one of the reasons I joined. There is a basic respect, which I seldom observed broken, between folks. The strawboss thing was more by common agreement rather than 'appointed' and it was understood that the community ruled itself with Stephen as a kind of 'focu ' of the common agreement. During the time I was there, I saw it change into a full blown hierarchy, where respect was upward flowing and control was downward flowing. Folks were mor"}, {"response": 10, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (02:02)", "body": "Hey WER, for my personal info would you throw in a denotative contrast for me between paranoid and cynical... thanks. just not quite able to extract my own connotative meanings out"}, {"response": 11, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (19:24)", "body": "I'm paranoid when I think you've stopped talking to me because I've said something too stupid or too offensive for you to continue wasting your valuable time on me... I'm cynical when I believe that you've stopped talking to me because I'm lacking in conversational abilities and question why would you waste your valuable time on me anyway... (I know, weird examples, but hey, it was the first thing that came to mind...)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (19:27)", "body": "*smile* *hug* yes... you are."}, {"response": 13, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (19:30)", "body": "be that as it may or main't, can you draw your own connotations now?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (19:32)", "body": "(wiping formerly silly grin off of my face) I'm sorry. I must've forgot my train of thought. *ahem* I mean thank you william for the clarification."}, {"response": 15, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (19:32)", "body": "(and, it wasn't a current question, I just know that we've talked about that before so I figured it would be a good example, and like I said, it was the first thing that came to mind...thanks, though...hope you're well)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (19:33)", "body": "what's with the william? what did I do to deserve that?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (19:39)", "body": "something. (see mailbox) nothing. (sorry)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (22:28)", "body": "? (check your mail) ? (no need to apologize)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (22:36)", "body": "but my mailbox is empty... (?)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (22:43)", "body": "really, I just mailed you..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (22:45)", "body": "to stacey@www.spring.net ?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (22:47)", "body": "nope, I didn't check your name in here...oops, you should change your e-mail address to spring.net and not spring.com...hang on a sec and I'll re-email ya..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (22:55)", "body": "(empty box still...)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb 11, 1999 (22:58)", "body": "that's because you're there and I'm here... I don't get it, either, as the one I mailed to you at spring.com hasn't bounced back... the short(est) version of the e-mail is that I can't check Juno currently, so you need to e-mail me at rotazo@aol.com..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Sat, Feb 13, 1999 (18:45)", "body": "Hmmmm...interesting how each of us look at certain situations, indeed. Instead of concluding that The Farm \"failed\", might we consider that it merely went through, and is still going through, a series of changes that branch out from the original ideas? Are we the same now as we were 25 years ago? Interested in feedback..."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Roan", "date": "Sun, Feb 14, 1999 (07:05)", "body": "I use the word 'failed' only in terms of the influence of the Farm as a community, which was lost when it lost the collectivity that was such a wonderful example of love/trust in action. That existed despite any internal problems. It was a synergy that was spiritual and wonderous, and beyond expectation considering the society we were surrounded with. That is the main reason I don't condemn Stephen, for he brought something good about, even with it's faults, some of which might have been from his own spir tual myopia. The Farm exists now as something in the hearts of a lot of folks around the planet and some folks on the land. The land is the Farm only in name, and it was never about the land anyway. The question has been, for me, ever since then... Does the Farm still exist in any sense of what it had been, in our hearts, or is it now just a moment in history? I would have, at almost any time, moved back in somewhere with other Farm folks and done the communal thing again, in the same spirit, because of all in my lif that I found valueable, truely spiritual, that heart-goal was the most incredable expression of love there was, and the world needs that example more than ever. Love and Peace to you and yours, -Roan"}, {"response": 27, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Sun, Feb 14, 1999 (12:16)", "body": "Thanks, Roan. I lived on the Farm, just recently, and grew up in Summertown, watching the caravan roll into town back in the early 70's. Seems that I have always been a part of the Farm, either as an observer or an activist in some activity/cause that was sponsored by the Farm. I didn't live on \"the old Farm\", but, like you, many were and still feel discontentment (perhaps putting it lightly!) over the direction(s) taken and the \"hierarchy\" that eventually came about. Many have shared their thoughts and i eas re: the reason(s) behind the changeover in the early 80's and what particular events led up to it. It seems that battling egos was always mentioned, first. Perhaps the demise of the original concept(s) was in the way that this clash of egos was dealt with, and, not particularly bacause of the \"clash\" itself...the increase in the formation of \"committees\" to make the ultimate decisions seemed to be the final blow for alot of folks... \"Does the Farm still exist in any sense of what it had been, in our hearts, or is it now just a moment in history?\" There is still a strong sense of community that is felt first, then observed, on the Farm today. Seems, though, that, no matter what each of our experiences might have been, the very idea that it was something that was so strong to have planted itself deep within our hearts to carry with us, wherever we go, suggests that the word \"failure\" might not be the true outcome, after all... Peace to you, my friend, Annette"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Roan", "date": "Mon, Feb 15, 1999 (07:11)", "body": "I felt some of that, and felt it the time they moved the Ragweed celebration from the 11th to the 4th and I missed it... I felt it going on that weekend telepathically, an amazing energy, but didn't know that was the source of that energy. I was looking forward to the next weekend, to Ragweed, and it was over... a massive disappointment. The Farm was my tribe. I loved it. In the sense of a continuing community --as memory and associations-- it was not a failure and in fact a strange sort of success. That we feel so strongly about the Farm 25+ years later, and many have lifetime friends from the experience shows that it was a success in human terms. But the test is, though, did that sense of community survive as a willingness to do or help to do more such communities, or did it cause people to believe that such a community is somehow naturally impossible? The Farm had a re son to exist that drew me and many others to it, the idea that we were going to evolve a form of living which was sustainable and effective and efficient and could fit in any part of the world, this was important, and I don't see it now. It is more important now than ever. The world needs it. We may have been politically naive and let it get away, but we need to be committed to bringing it back again, and apply the lessons we learned to make a better community with new generations. That synergy must not be lost or degraded into some foolish conviction that such communities are impossible for long term existance because of our allowing it to fade away. The world needs sane communities, because the global community that now exists is not su tainable for the long term."}, {"response": 29, "author": "LaughingSky", "date": "Tue, Feb 16, 1999 (21:57)", "body": "I see your point, indeed. I, too, also agree that the world needs more sane and self-sustainable communities. Like you, I tend to wander how long this type communal existance will be able to continue...one thing I became aware of was, even though the spiritual energy of individuals was high, there was a lacking effort, overall, as far as preparations for the simple survival of the community, i.e. food and water preparations for the event of some kind of disaster, be it weather, loss of electricity, Y2K and such...I think that spiritual and emotional health is all great and beautiful, but, making sure that the community is taken care of in times of need, by working on a cooperative level, is a dire neccessity. In a sense, it almost encourages people to think of themselves, first - back to the real world hmmmmmmm...?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "mph", "date": "Thu, Mar 11, 1999 (21:54)", "body": "This was originally written to FNN in response to Rupert Fike's letter about the mens' circle last year at Ragweed. I decided to post it here after reading some of what has been posted here, at Roan's suggestion. It deals to a certain extent with \"why the Farm failed,\" a subject I can go on about for pages, although that gets to be like refighting the civil war in the 1870's as time passes and things fall apart. I feel that I need to say in opening that I am not personally angry with anyone in the tribe; indeed, it is the sense of family-arity I feel with so many people that impels me to say such (apparently) unpopular things. Stephen always used to stress the importance of speaking the truth as we saw it regardless of social niceties, and that\ufffds what I\ufffdm doing. Rupert's brutally honest letter about the mens\ufffd circle was almost enough to make me cry, and I certainly considered \ufffdif only I\ufffdd been there.\ufffd But really, the War on Drugs has succeeded in shifting the terms of discussion enough that it\ufffds hard to even talk about some things rationally. Remember Stephen\ufffds tale of Dr. D and \ufffdThe evidence bureau\ufffd--whoever controls the evidence, controls reality? LSD has become a very handy scapegoat. It is not just illegal, it\ufffds heretical, and thus doubly difficult to stand up for. Media pressure has been used as a brainwashing tool so that not only the history books, but our own memories are rewritten to erase the nobility of what we did and the truth of what we saw. As long as LSD was legal, the problem Rupert mentions (\ufffdsome form of [long-term] debilitating head space from the combination of taking acid while already having an impossible to diagnose susceptibility to psychosis, bipolar disorder, etc...\ufffd) was unheard of in relation to psychedelics. In fact, they were considered miracle drugs for healing pretty much every mental disorder--except paranoia. Even autism was treatable. Guided LSD use was found to be a valuable means of lowering prison recidivism. ( y source on this is Jay Stevens\ufffd well-written and well-documented history, \ufffdStorming Heaven.\ufffd Even if you don\ufffdt care for anything else I have to say, please read this book.) That word, \ufffdguided,\ufffd is part of the key. Scheduling of LSD made any kind of control of it impossible. (Whoever called it the \ufffdControlled Substances Act\ufffd had a truly Orwellian sense of humor!) LSD went totally out of control. Everyone who attempted to connect it with a wisdom tradition was persecuted out of business. ( Stephen ducked out of this danger by renouncing LSD, even rewriting Monday Night Class to remove all the acid references. This seems to me to have been one of our/his first steps on th road to fatal compromise.) The tragi-comic movie \ufffdDazed and Confused\ufffd is a poignant portrayal of the spiritual bankruptcy that this decapitation of the hippie church brought about. I recently reread a phrase that Stephen employed that I think is extremely relevant here: \ufffd Discipline while tripping.\ufffd Our society has a very poor understanding of mental discipline, especially as something that can be taught. Traditional societies naturally instill it in their members, but our commercial culture finds us more pliable as consumers without it. (People with mental discipline aren\ufffdt addicted to shopping--or anything else, for that matter.) This lack is one of the wellsprings from whi h the \ufffdmental illness epidemic\ufffd has arisen. Stephen\ufffds life circumstances taught him some mental discipline, and I think much of his teaching activity in San Francisco and on the early Farm was an attempt to impart that to us, his spiritual students. I think he had some success, but when he quietly retired from the active guru-role he didn\ufffdt leave any dharma heirs, or even a method that could be applied without a direct, personal relationship with him. I think our lack of mental discipline shows in how easily we were stampeded (including me!) into abandoning our basic agreement at the time of the coup in 1983. I\ufffdm not talking about diet and finances here--I\ufffdm talking about being Stephen\ufffds ashram--embodying his spiritual teachings about ego and socio-cultural deconditioning within the community and amplifying his social vision in the world. I read a lot of self-congratulatory letters in FNN about how the Farm is still a cool place, but the fact is th t we have not offered a coherent alternative vision of reality or acted in concert since we quit being collective. I, too, have a strong suspicion that the U.S. government viewed our involvement with Native American rights and the anti-nuclear movement, our anti-consumerist stance (including feeding ourselves), and other such causes that we as a community championed as a threat in much the same way that they considered the Sandinistas a threat. \ufffdOur\ufffd government, through \ufffdsubtle\ufffd manipulation, made it look like the Sandinistas were voted out in a fair election. If they could stampede several million Nicaraguans, wh not a few hundred naive hippies? It\ufffds a matter of public record tha"}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 12, 1999 (09:55)", "body": "Martin, glad you're jumping in to the conversation and hope you stick around. I'm going to need to spend some time re-reading your post, but it's got some very interesting insights such as the role of self discipline in the changes that the Farm went though. I didn't know MNC had been hacked in this way, have you seen http://www.spring.net/~wmmeyers where William is proposing a new edition of MNC? On the personal level, where are you these days? What neck of the woods?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "laughingskye", "date": "Fri, Apr 30, 1999 (09:00)", "body": "Hey, Terry, thanks for posting that! In answer to your question on LaughingSky's Cloud, I moved back off of The Farm back in December. I am now back in nearby Hohenwald, where I lived before I moved there. I am still visiting there, often, and have plans to attend the Unity Festival on Memorial Day weekend! :)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May 11, 1999 (17:08)", "body": "You mean, Ragweed Day? Now it's the \"Unity Festival\"?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "birdinflight", "date": "Sat, Jan 27, 2001 (23:07)", "body": "I read all of this post and this was the only part that I take issue with: On another tack, let\ufffds examine this phrase, \ufffddrug abuse,\ufffd that has been one of the Inquisition\ufffds prime weapons in slandering our religion. Let\ufffds compare it to \ufffdchild abuse.\ufffd A drug is abused; a child is abused. Is it the child\ufffds fault? Why does it become the drug\ufffds fault? Here is your answer: A child is a human being he has feelings, he bruises, he bleeds....a drug (any drug) is an object it can have no fault in the first place and in the second place, it can be used without being abused. Many people, especially on the Farm, were in denial about the harm that marijuana can do. It is a precious gift of nature and it was never meant to be smoked all day or even every day. The native Americans never smoked it like that. It is too bad that the establishment was/is able to talk about marijuana and drug abuse but that is only to be expected when people don't respect it and abuse it instead of just using it. I find it especially sad that people I know and love can rarely partake because of random drug tes s at jobs they need to keep and this is only because so many people have not kept a good relationship with grass. The same thing happened with LSD. It was such a wonder, such a hope for mankind when it first came around and it got into the hands of people that abused it and now it is far too risky for many reasons to use although I would love to take it again if I could."}, {"response": 35, "author": "shelbi", "date": "Sun, Mar  4, 2001 (23:08)", "body": "So, if the Farm failed then what is happening at the Farm in Tennessee? I have never visited it myself. I only know what I have read and information that I have gathered at Rainbow Festivals. Many of the people that I talked to were very disenchanted with the way things were done. Are all intentional communities destined to fail in this type of society where all things material are holy but all things spiritual are deemed recreational?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Mar  5, 2001 (09:24)", "body": "It's keepin' on, in a different Farm. You no longer go there and give everything to the Bank Lady, but some of the ideals live on. I don't think all intentional communities are destined to fail, in fact, I feel like they'll make a comeback when the folks who started some of them get older and when Social Security fails, then we'll see the wisdom of living together and cooperating for the greater good again. The Farm has already started Rocinante for retired folks, though I haven't heard how it's doing lately. Glad you're joining the discussion, Maybe Annette and some of the other folks who actually live on the Farm or who are closer to the scene will join in the conversation again."}, {"response": 37, "author": "shelbi", "date": "Mon, Mar  5, 2001 (19:56)", "body": "I have visited the Farm website and seen that they are so many classes that are offered. I would love to study midwifery with the farm midwives. Ever since I have read Spiritual Midwifery, I am so in awe of these women. I could not imagine what a sense of responsibility these women must have. After all, they are in overseeing the health of so many women not just on the farm but they also care for women out in town. I was so tempted to travel to the farm to have my last baby. But, I called Ina May and she gave me some names of women who practiced here in San Diego. I found my midwife and had a wonderful home birth. They also have so many classes about environmental construction. I really need to learn so much more about this type of construction. I want to build my own. I think this type of construction would be better than the rammed earth houses, and the earthships made out of rammed earth, tires, and aluminum cans. I think I will try and take some construction courses whenever I can."}, {"response": 38, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Mar  6, 2001 (09:43)", "body": "From Judy via email: I was reading with interest the stuff on the FArm. I was in the caravan in the early 1970's from Berkley. After I graduated from nursing school in Michigan my husband and I went out there and joined in the monday night classes. At the time it was great and we enjoyed our stint with the people. We stayed for a few years and it was cool. We had some sincere churches coming in to \"save' us from what they thought were our cultish ways. At first my husband and I joked about this until one night what the folks from the church were saying started to make sense. STephen was cutting up and frankly, it became embarassing. Well, I got 'saved' and finally understood just what they were saying was true. A few weeks later my husband also got 'saved'. But...even though we decided to leave we still kept up with some wonderful friendships we made. We moved back to MIchigan, bought a 100 acre farm and started to grow organic vegetables and herbs. We frequently visited the Michigan Farm, an off-shoot of the original Farm. They were on the shores of Lake Michigan. What I learned from the Farm and its great people have stayed with me throughout my life and I have to say that my involvement has changed my life. I found out that alot of what Stephen was saying was pure garbage but the self-sufficiency message, the message to be kind to the earth, and the wonderful things that we did with Plenty have helped me to make changes in my life. At 52 I am still an 'old hippie' that is not tied to the system. I learned so much from that experience. My children spent many happy times on the Farm while growing up and continue to have friends who grew up and left also. Well, I am still a nurse practitioner and working in Labour & Delivery. My old, dog-eared copy of Spiritual Midwifery still sits on my desk and I reference it frequently. I try to bring Christianity into my practice and use natural and herbal methods to make birth a more pleasant event for my mothers. God Bless You All!! - Judy"}, {"response": 39, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Thu, Jun 28, 2001 (16:01)", "body": "Matthew McClure said quite accurately - People who had previously thought of Stephen as a living Buddha began to question his realization. I think that was the big one, actually. That seems to jive with what a couple of people have said to me. Me personally, I'm certain Stephen does have true awakening and the only way you can really be sure is if it happens to you, to some degree. If Stephen actually awakened your consciousness. And just like with any guru/students situation, some will get if sooner than others, even Buddha had students who took longer than others. It took his personal secretary Ananda 20 years. So as far as the Farm failing, it depends on what you think the purpose was, if you see it as an ashram and Stephen as guru, then that's a whole other situation, and every person who was helped or those who were awakened by Stephen to whatever degree has to be considered a success. And those who took the flame of awakening with them will help others. As far as Stephen being a living Buddha, naw, that's pretty exalted. Perfect. I think there was this common error in thinking that awakening was the same as enlightenment and now I see enlightenment as the perfect actualization of that awakening or prit-near perfect. Stephen's definitely ahead of a lot of so-called gurus, that's for sure."}, {"response": 40, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Fri, Feb 28, 2003 (12:54)", "body": "This was from Judy's response 38: Stephen was cutting up and frankly, it became embarassing. Well, I got 'saved' and finally understood just what they were saying was true. A few weeks later my husband also got 'saved'. But...even though we decided to leave we still kept up with some wonderful friendships we made. We moved back to MIchigan, bought a 100 acre farm and started to grow organic vegetables and herbs. We frequently visited the Michigan Farm, an off-shoot of the original Farm. They were on the shores of Lake Michigan. What I learned from the Farm and its great people have stayed with me throughout my life and I have to say that my involvement has changed my life. I found out that alot of what Stephen was saying was pure garbage -My ex wife was a sufi when I met her in 1980, she was living at the Lama Foundation, a spiritual community in New Mexico. Since then, she's also become a Christian, back in the mid-eighties. My daughter has also recently become one, about three years ago. I still read back thru Stephen's writings and try to understand exactly what he was saying. I think he may have been a bit authoritarian and didn't really want others to be on his level. But I have a bit of trouble seeing how a lot of what he said was pure garbage. Could you or anyone else help me out here?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar  2, 2003 (05:50)", "body": "That does cry out for some examples. Wonder if we could get Judy to elaborate."}, {"response": 42, "author": "beatnick", "date": "Mon, Mar  3, 2003 (12:22)", "body": "It could also be a springboard to get the conversation going as far as what kind of understandings about what Stephen was really doing and was about. There have been a lot of people who lived on the Farm for varying amounts of time and Gaskin has made some bodacious claims, right from the beginning. I've talked to lots of exes who say \"naw, he wasn't enlightened\". Right there is some heavy duty conceptual conflict. Gaskin says he was, and exes say he wasn't. So if you were one of those who said he wasn't, then a lot of what he said would sound like hogwash. I went on to check out many enlightened teachers and something I found out was that enlightenment or awakening is pretty much it's own territory and things look quite different from that perspective than from a more self absorbed and contracted one. In my view, Gaskin WAS enlightened. I like the word awakened these days, cuz enlightenment is a process, not a one time thing, the entire mind has to be examined and deconditioned in order to be enlightened and that doesn't just happen all at once. Stephen was wrong to call himself enlightened, but nobody hardly knew about the long process in those days, all awakened teachers were calling themselves enlightened then. And then battling it out among themselves cuz they all still had various conditionings that would make them vulnerable. farm conference Main Menu"}]}]}