{"conf": "medieval", "generated_at": "2026-04-26T08:00:02.954878Z", "threads": [{"num": 1, "subject": "introductions", "response_count": 47, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Johanna", "date": "Fri, Jul 11, 1997 (19:11)", "body": "Hello, Excelsior! This shall be a fun place to share knowledge and resources! My favourite topics will be generally found along the warhorse/cavalry bend, but all topics excite! Am reading Mallory and Duby(_A History of Private Life_) at the moment, and pick up and put down Steven's _Medieval Romance_ as schedule permits. Am hot on the trail on Andrew Ayton's book about 14th century warfare. Look forward to continuing the Ivanhoe discussion and any other! Johanna"}, {"response": 2, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Jul 11, 1997 (20:17)", "body": "Johanna, you find everything so easily! As you know, my areas of medieval specialties are: the Crusades; knighthood; the Arthurian mythos (esp. Mallory); IVANHOE, Richard Lionheart, and some magick & alchemical stuff. SO let's go! Amy 2"}, {"response": 3, "author": "rita", "date": "Fri, Jul 11, 1997 (22:28)", "body": "Amy/Johanna, still trying to get used to the format- so bear with me. What about Bois-Guilbert and Ivanhoe, portryals in the movie."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Marian", "date": "Sat, Jul 12, 1997 (12:21)", "body": "Excuse my ignorance, Johanna, but Steven who? (I love reading Medieval romances)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sat, Jul 12, 1997 (21:36)", "body": "Suzanne, any medieval romances you'd particularly recommend? I admit, I'm partial to Sir Walter Scott's IVANHOE and THE TALISMAN; as far as source material, Mallory is my guy."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Sat, Jul 12, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "hi! Do I need to introduce myself again? I kind of like this format, and it'll be fun to use it again! I cannot promise to be a regular, as I'm kind of busy elsewhere, and I'm just about to go off on vacation, but I'll be looking in with interest. Just for the record, I'm a history addict, interested in herbalism, archaelogy, past landscapes, art, and many other things...."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Johanna", "date": "Sun, Jul 13, 1997 (02:54)", "body": "Hey Suzanne! It's actually by John Stevens, it's a discussion of the genre principally with reference to narrative fiction witten in the medieval times. A romance is first a tale. There are lot's of passages in old english and old french, but it helps me understand the times that I adore. So, A chapter here, a page there. ; ) Johanna"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Marian", "date": "Mon, Jul 14, 1997 (10:04)", "body": "Thanks Johanna! Actually, I love ALL things Medieval and/or Celtic; books, movies, music, etc. Amy, I'm not exactly sure if it's a romance but I just started reading \"Bard: The Osyssey of the Irish\" by Morgan Llywelyn and it's wonderful. I agree with you about Ivanhoe. It's fantastic. And the movie was great, too. Ciaran Hinds as Brian de Bois Guilbert was incredible. Best part of the whole movie, IMHO. :-)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jul 14, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "Welcome, Caroline! Glad to see you made it over here. Suzanne, you will find many other C. Hinds fans (we refer to our activity as \"drooling\") on this Board. So drool away!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "sandy2", "date": "Wed, Jul 16, 1997 (18:15)", "body": "Hi! I've long been interested in Medieval English, from Henry I-Richard III. I came to it from my studies of music history. While it's not my field, I will try to keep up with all of you. I especially like very well researched historical fiction. Any suggestions?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jul 16, 1997 (18:38)", "body": "Rosemary Sutcliff for historically accurate Arthurian stuff (6th century); THE TALISMAN & IVANHOE - Sir Walter Scott. MISTS OF AVALON - Marion Zimmer Bradley."}, {"response": 12, "author": "sloth", "date": "Tue, Jul 29, 1997 (23:27)", "body": "would someone help me please?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jul 29, 1997 (23:33)", "body": "Roy: How may I help you? (I can only offer cyber solutions; counseling is extra). amy"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Rochelle", "date": "Tue, Aug 26, 1997 (03:07)", "body": "As well as a general interest in the period, I love the literature (Mallory, Dante and Chauncer particularly) and the ballads. The Pre-Raphaelite recreation and interpretation of medievalism is also fascinating - Rossetti, Burne-Jones, Morris and Siddal. The Victorian revival of interest, partially inspired by works such as Scott's Ivanhoe and other romanticists such as Hugo, is a great cultural phenomena."}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 26, 1997 (09:35)", "body": "What would you suggest as enlivening topics for this conference, Elena?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Aug 27, 1997 (18:34)", "body": "Hiya Elena! We seem to have an almost eerie amount in common! I too dearly love Mallory & Chaucer, Scott & Hugo!! Did you by any chance catch the recent A&E showing of IVANHOE? I really enjoyed it, though I wouldn't say it was particularly faithful to the book. The other thing that fascinates about the Middle Ages is knighthood -- its rules & Code of Cortes. That's why I love Mallory's take on Arthur the best -- he emphasizes the warrior part of the warrior/monk. Welcome to this Board!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "JennieC", "date": "Fri, Apr 24, 1998 (00:56)", "body": "Hello. I am currently studying Medieval History at University. I am currently working on an assignment about the changes in marriage laws and customs and how canon law affected it. It's fascinating and at times hilarious stuff. Since I first saw the 80's Ivanhoe with Anthony Andrews and Sam Neil I have been decidedly hooked on the period. I am also interested in all things Arthurian."}, {"response": 19, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jul  4, 1998 (23:30)", "body": "hi people, this is my first time in the medieval conference....anyway, thought i'd branch out a bit!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jul  4, 1998 (23:38)", "body": "and as your new, poetry hostessing self!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jul  4, 1998 (23:47)", "body": "yeah, thanks for the help wer. now i don't know where to begin! *smile* kinda like moving into a new house. and how are you this fine evening?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jul  4, 1998 (23:50)", "body": "somewhat tired...and you?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Jul  4, 1998 (23:59)", "body": "kinda charged up (from know some things *wink*)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (00:06)", "body": "good girl...*happy face*"}, {"response": 25, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (00:07)", "body": "(not saying that those things made me elated or anything) *tongue hanging out and tail wagging*"}, {"response": 26, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (00:08)", "body": "wait, that didn't come out right...wasn't being sarcastic. ok, here: it was rather unnerving, but i'm ok with it now. better?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (00:11)", "body": "I think so, 'cause you sound better...*wink*"}, {"response": 28, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (00:14)", "body": "hey, if it's what is wanted, then...who am i to stand in the way (as if i would)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (00:14)", "body": "(you did read your juno mail, right?)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (00:16)", "body": "nope...not today... I guess this means I should, huh?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (00:18)", "body": "uh-huh, cuz i think you're missin' what i'm saying sweetie *grin*"}, {"response": 32, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (00:21)", "body": "I gots an idea, but you right, I'm missin' the specifics!!!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (00:22)", "body": "read it, quick, hurry....i gotta go soon..."}, {"response": 34, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (00:30)", "body": "ok, i gotta hit the sack. (we had the usual 4th picnic and i ate too much-as usual). wer, email me. talk to you later!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (20:32)", "body": "(sigh) poor, dead conference (it is a shame)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (20:56)", "body": "It is one of my favorite things to read about. Perhaps I should give it more time and effort. Don't kill it!!!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Sep  8, 1999 (10:57)", "body": "well nick... stop lamenting and post here once in awhile!!! (nice to see your name in print here again)"}, {"response": 38, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (00:35)", "body": "Well, pump it up. There must be some medeivalists out there."}, {"response": 39, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (01:04)", "body": "...thinking....(also have Geo to pump and CF's Birthday extravaganza is in 2 days)...may have to wait till the week end..."}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (08:33)", "body": "Man, http://www.firth.com (or http://www.colingfirth.com take your pick) will be partyin' down!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (16:26)", "body": "Did we ever...*grin* Excellent timing for your Screwed Drool topic...!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (11:54)", "body": "Did y'all get wild and crazy?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Elena", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (13:07)", "body": "Hmmmm....something medieval in Drool, I suppose."}, {"response": 44, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (15:26)", "body": "Terry, I think you need to check, but you'd have to change from telnetting to Windows. Actually, since his agent was informed of our \"party\" and there was always the chance of his lurking, we were rather more subdued than we were for Gi's bridal shower on 72. That got down right suggestive, as was appropriate in such circumstances. (I wonder how many ladies have learned html programming just to be able to post things for him and for other Drooleur enjoyment. Must be a pretty good number... Elena, HOTPig would fit right into medieval and drool at the same time, I think!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Moon", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (18:05)", "body": "Terry, since we are on the subject (of our Lancelot AKA Colin Firth), a big thank you for starting cf.com last year. You are appreciated! Grazie mille di cuore!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (20:12)", "body": "I prefer to think of him as Galahad. Betray his best friend and King and cause the round table to disintegrate? Nevah! I think of him (ODB) as pure of heart and mind, despite his making the terrible \"P\" movie! Hi, Moon!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (09:03)", "body": "Why don't y'all organize a chat with Colin Firth on firth.com sometime?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (12:02)", "body": "We have tossed that question around many times and have always come to the conslusion that he is a very private person who is not comfortable with doing anonymous conversations with unknown fans. When the ladies of Drool went to London to see him in a play last year, he was the very essence of kindness and patience, and many otherwise level-headed Firthians came away with a thrill of a life time. They will be back to London after the first of the year to relive the event. However, I think that is as close as he will get to know all of us. medieval conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 10, "subject": "Medieval Art", "response_count": 28, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (07:14)", "body": "You know, we also have a medieval conference so do you want me to link this to a parallel topic there, Riette. Some folks came to me and asked for medieval, but there has been scant activity there. We need to lure of few of these medievalists to our discussions."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (08:37)", "body": "Yes, please do that, Terry! I'd be very grateful. I'm sure there are people out there who can teach me a few things, and help me understand the history of painting better."}, {"response": 3, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (11:48)", "body": "i don't know if i've seen medieval artwork (paintings) but love looking at needlework from the era (reproductions, of course)."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (12:40)", "body": "Yes, me too. I'll post some examples here to try and make it a bit more interesting. Even I find art discussions totally boring without visuals - which is what art is about, right? And thank you for your interest, Wolf. I appreciate it."}, {"response": 5, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (22:46)", "body": "Bring on the visuals."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (23:11)", "body": "Link complete (to medieval)."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  9, 1998 (23:13)", "body": "Item Resps Subject 1 34 introductions 2 7 IVANHOE! 3 2 THE CRUSADES 4 11 LE MORTE D'ARTHUR 5 7 \"Guievere \"by Laurel Phelan 6 30 TELL YOUR FRIENDS! 7 35 your profession in the middle ages 8 3 Victorian interpretation 9 0 Dante 10 6 Medieval Art (showing the link in the medieval conference)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (04:50)", "body": "Thank you, Terry."}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (00:29)", "body": "Virgin and Child enthroned between St Theodore and St George 68x48cm 6th Century"}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (01:25)", "body": "I chose this little icon, not only because it is full of motives for interpretation, but also because it is a good example of art in the First Golden Age of Byzantine Art. During the First Golden Age the figures of the Virgin and Child had appeared as symbols of the Christian faith, rather than two people in an intimate, human relationship. During the second Golden Age the Virgin and Child were often painted with their faces touching tenderly, which introduced a new note in sacred art - there is emotional closeness there. So a good way to tell wether an icon was doen in the First or Second golden age, is to look at the relationship between the Mother and Child. But as I mentioned already, the icon above is also quite 'interpretable'. Mary has big, wide eyes - suggesting her purity of heart, as well as that she is a woman of vision, she sees God. She does not seem to notice Jesus on her lap: she knows his powers, He can 'look after Himself'. The two saints beside her are George, the holy warrior and dragon killer, and Theodore, a less well known warrior saint. Notice how they each hold a cross, instead of their weapons. Then there are the angels behind the throne. They look up, reminding us that the Child belongs to God, and not to Mary. Furthermore the four halos of Mary, Jesus and the saints form a cross, which predicts the future of the Child."}, {"response": 11, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (22:05)", "body": "I always enjoy gazing at the beautiful gold-leafed christian icons in museums, though I often get that feeling \"if you've seen one, you've seen them all.\" I will have to pay closer attention to the Mary-Jesus relationship from now on."}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (01:35)", "body": "ha-ha! But I know what you mean. I can also look at icons one at a time - otherwise the meaning just gets totally lost."}, {"response": 13, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:08)", "body": "yes, it does get rather generic when you see one after the other but it displays how much those symbols meant to them. and most Mary/Jesus paintings show them as sort of aloof but connected. i imagine that Mary was just like any other mother would be with her first child (not to mention the fact that this is God's child)!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:31)", "body": "Vladimir Madonna 75x53cm 12th century"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:10)", "body": "Thank you, Wer! See the warmth and closeness between Mother and Child? Look how He snuggles up to her. That means, Second Golden Age. Vladimir Madonna was probably painted in Constantinople in the 12th century, and later taken to Russia."}, {"response": 16, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (14:04)", "body": "this is one of the first Madonna paintings that i've seen with the closeness of the two shown so. most others are with the baby Jesus just in her lap. love the cheek to cheek depiction. OK, maybe you explained this before, riette, but what does the golden ages mean?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (01:14)", "body": "It basically mean the age in which Christians got 'permission' to be Christian. And it started in 313 when Constantine recognized the Christian church as the official religion of the Roman Empire, thereby ending 300 years of Christian persecution. That's why virtually all the paintings/sculptures that survived from this period are religious in some way or other."}, {"response": 18, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (21:06)", "body": "It doesn't seem as well-preserved as most others; I wonder where it's been the last 700 years?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (05:18)", "body": "God only knows. Here is something beautiful for our topic: 'Annunciation' 1291 Mosaic Santa Maria in Trastevere, Rome What do you think? This sort of religious art I can not only endure, but feel true admiration for."}, {"response": 20, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:15)", "body": "Mosaics always turn me on; something about the texture, maybe. This one's gorgeous."}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (07:01)", "body": "I could find no information regarding this icon, but my guess is that it dates back to the first golden age of Byzantine art - that is, before the 8th century."}, {"response": 22, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (13:06)", "body": "look how tight baby Jesus is wrapped. similar to how tightly babies are wrapped today. almost a foreshadow of his death and being wrapped then..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (01:11)", "body": "Yes. I'm glad I wasn't Mary. Look at how he's already telling her what to do! I'd give the little (oops, was going to say bugger) a smacking in no time! Which reminds me of an amusing story my husband told me. Several years ago he was asked to accompany some church choir doing the nativity play. At one point the woman who conducted it all told the little girl who played Mary to pretend that she really is the dolly's Mummy - just like her own Mummy who had an 8 month-old baby. And the little girl said to Joseph: \"YOU take the bugger, I've had him all day!!\""}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (08:08)", "body": "Ha!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (08:57)", "body": "haha! kids say the cutest things!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (10:50)", "body": "The parents too, obviously..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (13:51)", "body": "this is true! kids always repeat things they've heard. my daughter runs around talking like her sitter! (see, the lady has practically adopted us and does have grown children of her own AND her own grandbabies, so what's a few more?) I adore her!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (14:04)", "body": "How sweet. medieval conference | Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 2, "subject": "IVANHOE!", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "rita", "date": "Fri, Jul 11, 1997 (22:25)", "body": "Bois-Guilbert is my choice!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Jul 11, 1997 (23:14)", "body": "You go, Rita! Glad to see you made it here!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "rita", "date": "Fri, Jul 11, 1997 (23:54)", "body": "The templar Sir Brian de Bois-Guilbert, why do you think that modern women are so drawn to this seemingly macho man?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "rita", "date": "Fri, Jul 11, 1997 (23:59)", "body": "Speaking of Arthur, anyone interested in discussing Tennyson's-\" The Passing of Arthur\". Thanks!!!!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sat, Jul 12, 1997 (21:33)", "body": "Maybe Bois-Guilbert flies in the face of the sensitive 90's man who's taken Iron John training & discovered his inner child... I confess I haven't read IDYLLS OF THE KING since high school -- I'm much better acquainted with Mallory. But please, by all means, discuss away! Maybe someone else can pick up the ball... BTW, if you have any on-line friends interested in the M.A., please let them know about this Board. I added it to Yahoo on Friday."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Rochelle", "date": "Thu, Sep 11, 1997 (21:01)", "body": "Can I register a vote for Rebecca over Rowena? I did think Rowena deserved Ivanhoe, only because I thought he rather deserved something a little insipid."}, {"response": 7, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sat, Sep 20, 1997 (17:37)", "body": "Ha! Yeah, she did come across as pretty but rather vapid, didn't she? Whereas Rebecca is intelligent, gifted, sensitive, ethical, AND beautiful. Now who would YOU choose? medieval conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 3, "subject": "THE CRUSADES", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Rochelle", "date": "Thu, Sep 11, 1997 (20:40)", "body": "How about Eleanor of the Aquitane's (sp?) role? This was an area of interest for me years ago, but a lot has slipped my mind since. I understand she roused support for the Crusades (although not, as legend has it, by dressing up in armour with her ladies and galloping around. \"The Lion in Winter\" was an intersting take on it all, particularly on the French/English royal families' dynamics. But this is all going back a long way, and I'd like to refresh my memory."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Knight", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (17:42)", "body": "My daughter is doing a report for school on the Fourth Crusade. What kind of information do you have? medieval conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 4, "subject": "LE MORTE D'ARTHUR", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 5, "subject": "\"Guievere \"by Laurel Phelan", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Johanna", "date": "Sun, Jul 13, 1997 (03:57)", "body": "No, tell me more! Johanna"}, {"response": 2, "author": "SuzanneK", "date": "Thu, Jul 17, 1997 (22:25)", "body": "Yes, do tell, Caroline. I may want to add it to \"my list.\" :-)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Jul 18, 1997 (23:40)", "body": "I'm not sure I should....no, I'm not being coy here. It's about the Post-Roman Arthur and Guinevere, not the medieval ones,and it's well, a bit different, and absolutely fascinating. It is a fairly recent publication(1995?), and I'd love to discuss it with someone. But I guess you have to read it first!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sat, Jul 19, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "Caroline: Is the book historically true to the 6th century? Then Arthur must be a Romanized Briton, with all that Celtic stuff going on. I still cherish my visions of a Camelot set in Middle Ages, due to Mallory. But Rosemary Sutcliff has done a good job fictionalizing \"the historic Arthur\", and if you're interested, the Arthurian scholar Geoffrey Ashe has written some great books on the subject."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Carolineevans", "date": "Fri, Jul 25, 1997 (22:47)", "body": "Amy, I grew up reading things like \"The Sword at Sunset\" and Geoffrey Ashe's writings on Stonehenge. Geoffrey A concentrates on Arthur, and most scholars do the same, Guinevere is practically ignored. Some say she's a Medieval addition, like Lancelot. This lady says something totally different. You may find it hard to believe her, but whether you do or not, it's interesting reading."}, {"response": 6, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jul 28, 1997 (11:50)", "body": "That sound pretty darned interesting. I know that MZB in MISTS OF AVALON basically re-told the whole story from the P.O.V. of the _women._ Yeah, I can't remember reading any mention of Guinivere in the early source material - is she even in de Troyes? Glad to hear you're familiar with Ashe -- I've really learned a lot from his books. One time, I had a question -- I wrote him, and he was nice enough to write back! I think he lives in Glastonbury."}, {"response": 7, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sat, Oct 18, 1997 (07:04)", "body": "Arthur was both Roman and Celtic, in all probability- descended, paternally, from the Roman emperor Constantine; maternally, a great grandson of Cuenedda Wledig, who founded the royal house of Wales. After Rome withdrew from Britain (mid-fifth century), a series of Roman/Celtic \"imperatores\"- essentially, calvary commanders- attempted to rule. Arthur was among the last of these (several sources attest his title to have been \"dux bellorum\", or \"duke of Britain\"). Guinevere has likewise been referred to in some texts as having been \"a noble Roman\". Even if this was so, she was likely a Pictish princess, from the northeast (Scotland), as was Lancelot (from the northeast, I mean- not a princess). Guinevere is without a doubt one of history's most unfairly maligned figures. In fact, she was a great warrior queen, in the tradition of Boudicca. Because of the libels of de Troyes, and his ilk, however (the relationship between she and Lancelot was invented, whole clot , to entertain various bored royal personages, and their courtiers), her name has become synonomous with faithlessness and adultery. Do hope she if fairly depicted in \"Guinevere\"... And do agree, incidently, that Malory's \"Le Morte d'Arthure\" is the most beautiful of all the texts..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "jthorpe", "date": "Fri, Nov 23, 2001 (11:16)", "body": "I love this book!!!!! Even if one doesn't believe in past lives, I would imagine that they would enjoy this story.... medieval conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 6, "subject": "TELL YOUR FRIENDS!", "response_count": 30, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul 15, 1997 (13:23)", "body": "I found out Albert is a medievalist and very enthused about showing up here. Look for him soon."}, {"response": 2, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jul 15, 1997 (19:56)", "body": "That's great, Terry! I hope we can draw in some other M.A. fans by listing this site on Yahoo, etc. We had a lot of IVANHOE admirers over at P&P, and I hope we can continue our discussion here."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul 15, 1997 (22:10)", "body": "He reminds me that his online name is pelles and his email is pelles@spring.com. Why don't you drop him a line Amy and tell him about what's going on. I told him to expect something explaining what was going on ok? How about folks in the Jane Austen site?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jul 16, 1997 (10:37)", "body": "Terry: I did post this URL to the JA site -- most of those folke, of course, are interested in JA and not the Middle Ages. But I did find about 3-4 other people there who shared my passion for the period & for IVANHOE. Most have found us & are alreadly posting. I will e-mail pelles post haste!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "rita", "date": "Thu, Jul 17, 1997 (18:46)", "body": "Yes, I am interested but less informed than all of you."}, {"response": 6, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Jul 17, 1997 (19:40)", "body": "That's OK, Rita -- feel free to ask any questions. I'm sure someone on this board can come up with an answer!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul 22, 1997 (11:47)", "body": "A question. What is the different between 'medieval' times and the 'dark ages'. Medieval was from 900 to 1300? And the dark ages were from 300 to 900? I know this is off topic, so is this worth creating a new topic? This is something I simply must know the answer to, you understand? Please be tolerant."}, {"response": 8, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jul 23, 1997 (11:05)", "body": "Terry: I have to say, I don't know why a certain period was demarcated as the Dark Ages, and then suddenly, here come the Middle Ages! Johanna?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jul 23, 1997 (11:37)", "body": "There must be someone here who knows?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Jul 23, 1997 (23:35)", "body": "I wish there were _someone here._ Any thoughts on how to further publicize this site?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 24, 1997 (12:08)", "body": "Do a search for 'medieval' sites and aske them to link here. And get listed on submit-it to all the search engines."}, {"response": 12, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Jul 24, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "Will do. How does that \"submit it\" business work? Thanks!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 25, 1997 (09:38)", "body": "Do a search for submit it or submit-it till you find their site, it has directions I think."}, {"response": 14, "author": "SuzanneK", "date": "Fri, Jul 25, 1997 (10:04)", "body": "Hi Amy! www.submit-it.com/ will list a site on 20 search engines for free. They also have other options for a price. But if you want the page to appear towards the top of the list, you need to add a \"Madda Tag\" to the web page with key words you want the search engines to look for. I don't know if you can add those to these pages or if they already have them, though. I think you can also get this page added to a GeoCity by going to www.geocities.com I would definitely like to see more people here. Good luck!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 25, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "Do we need a dedicated web page for this?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "amy2", "date": "Fri, Jul 25, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "Thanks Suzanne! I will give that a try."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Iulian", "date": "Sat, Jul 26, 1997 (02:20)", "body": "Hey! You! What time is it?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "amy2", "date": "Mon, Jul 28, 1997 (10:52)", "body": "Sounds like Morris Day and the Time! (\"WHAT TIME IS IT?!\") White Wolf, are you another wolf? Do I know you? Are you interested in the Middle Ages? If so, please feel free to post to this board often & create your own topics if you choose. We practice medieval tolerance here!! (but no Spanish Inquistion, so don't worry...)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "rita", "date": "Mon, Jul 28, 1997 (18:11)", "body": "Amy, about getting more people in here- you could try asking other med sites to provide links. Anyone want to discuss Ivanhoe, I am doing some reading on this era."}, {"response": 20, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jul 29, 1997 (11:07)", "body": "Rita, I ALWAYS love to discuss IVANHOE. Let's start with this topic: Which female character do you like better, Rebecca or Rowena, and why? I have to cast my vote for Rebecca -- I admire her intelligence, high moral principles, ability to live in a hostile land while still maintaining her dignity, and willingness to die for her faith. Rowenna to me seems more like a typical pale heroine from a _romans_ -- she's beautiful, she's faithful, but is she intelligent? What does everyone think?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "rita", "date": "Tue, Jul 29, 1997 (13:09)", "body": "Rebecca, me too! I think she is very modern in many ways but I suppose Rowena is the archetypal English beauty/virtous woman of the age. I don't understand rebecca's fascination with ivanhoe. Anyone?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Jul 29, 1997 (14:56)", "body": "I guess she saw in him a \"very gentle, parfait knight.\" He was chivalrous, and aside from a few anti-Semetic remarks of his in the book, generally broad-minded. I'd guess that from her P.O.V. he was strong, handsome, as moral & as dedicated to his Faith as she was. Plus, he risks his life to save hers! That would probably work for me..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "rita", "date": "Wed, Jul 30, 1997 (22:04)", "body": "What about the templar order, anyone?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Jul 31, 1997 (10:53)", "body": "I think I posted all of my notes on Virtual View re: the Templars. My own view is that, like any organization, it was composed of both good & bad individuals: I have no doubt that many members truly accepted their role as warrior/monks, and gladly gave their lives to free the tomb of Christ from the infidel. In fact, they died at the Battle of the Horns of Hattin down to the last man, including the Grand Master -- Saladin had every one decapitated. On the other hand, I think that many were greedy -- more interested in acquiring gold & lands than in upholding their religious vows. What happened during the Fourth Crusade, at Constantinople, was a disgrace not just to the Templars, but to the Venetians & the Crusaders in general. I think that Bois de Guibert may fall into some middle groud -- he's not wholly evil, but he certainly has some depraved qualities. At the end though, he DOES redeem himself pretty spectacularly!!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Johanna", "date": "Tue, Aug  5, 1997 (01:37)", "body": "Whoo-hoo! This place rocks! I have been out in the trenches teaching myself html etc, yes, easy for you pros, but now I can say \"oh, yes, I understand...\" I will post this site on the Medieval email list I am on, should be bringing on board some more minds. I understand, Terry, that the Middle Ages are generally demarcated by the rise and fall of heavy cavalry. Early, High and Late periods are the three catagories. The bow and arrow was a driving force behind the heavy and increasing complex armor. The rise of gun-powder rendered it obsolete. One aside: It is my understandingm that during the purported \"real\" heyday of King Arthur, bow and arrow weren't quite in as large use as later (more battle axe and sword) so the movie \"First Knight\" (aside from generally being a bad flick\")was incorrect. Yes, I needed this...: )) Johanna"}, {"response": 26, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Aug  5, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "Johanna: The \"real\" historical period of Arthur was about 550 A.D., during the Dark Ages, and I don't think bow & arrow were even in use then. Since the historical Arthur fought the Romans, he probably fought with similar weapons -- sword, shield -- the basics. Here's a question for you -- when was the stirrup invented? I know this had a huge effect on warfare, since it led to mounted warriors. Thanks!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "jgross", "date": "Sun, Jul  5, 1998 (22:41)", "body": "No Pots Were Thrown This Day i walk along the water & cross to the edge of the fields where i found a lone potter digging clay out with his heels his face never lost its look his hands held the air in season he had the push and drive that took on skill with the will of reason secretly he trusts you he figures you'll be able to do it he's seen you bust through & then he saw when you drew it i didn't say much i only listened to his voice he was in close touch with true art that makes pure a choice sometimes he would talk with his hands i always could see why they showed exactly how he understands the meaning in your sigh i told him about you when a question began to stir: \"how can she use her heart without letting it use her?\" he looked off toward the meadow where his mystery flew in plain sight then he took up his old banjo which he played for his own delight we all know music is truthful & that it changes the vibe & if you play it true to your feeling it reveals what you can't describe i lost his voice altogether in the strumming of his strings there was a song in his heart that he made appear in all things his eyes looked deep into mine at the instant his fingers withdrew the banjo cut short on a note that was blind blindly in love with you"}, {"response": 28, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Jul  6, 1998 (01:01)", "body": "this is lovely... last verse was unexpected... i liked it a lot"}, {"response": 29, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Jul  8, 1998 (18:25)", "body": "what words can you type when all your body desires is to smile and allow the tingles to slowly fade away? (thank you jim)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (01:58)", "body": "that would be the ones you just used, Stace... medieval conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 7, "subject": "your profession in the middle ages", "response_count": 33, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Aug 19, 1997 (10:31)", "body": "Terry: Without checking the web page, I can tell you, I had to be a FEMALE KNIGHT! Love those rules of Chivalry, courtly love, et al. And a Knight during the Crusades (preferably the Third) would have suited me just fine!!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 19, 1997 (13:50)", "body": "Nope, I think you were a \"wizard\" or the medieval equivalent of a psychic. I guess you may have to go and try it out!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "imagcvm", "date": "Tue, Aug 19, 1997 (18:12)", "body": "slave"}, {"response": 4, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Aug 19, 1997 (19:30)", "body": "Carlos -- can we upgrade you to a serf?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 19, 1997 (20:45)", "body": "At least you made it all the way through, it errored for me on the 6th set of questions. But I'll give it another go. It's a pretty fun site."}, {"response": 6, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Aug 20, 1997 (10:59)", "body": "Johanna from this Board found another very cool medieval site. It's at: http://www.wizard.net/~bharbin/serfboard/index.htm Looks like there's a bunch of folke there who love the M.A. Terry - speaking of which, do you have any suggestions about how we can attract more traffic to this Board? I've linked it to Yahoo & SUBMIT IT. Or should we shut this one down for now & concentrate on the Brontes, which has been very popular? Thanks, amy"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug 20, 1997 (11:10)", "body": "You need to list individual topic urls to submit it, that is, the rad only topic urls so folks can get to them. That will generate a lot more traffice. Also, get related sites to start linking to us. You can find these sites with keyword searches. Ted and I can set you up with 'groupmail' to get a mailing list going of current users."}, {"response": 8, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Aug 20, 1997 (18:35)", "body": "Terry -- that groupmail list would be helpful. I'll try to make the rounds & link us to other sites. There have GOT to be M.A. fans out there!!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 21, 1997 (06:54)", "body": "I'll get you set up, perhaps we could get a volunteer committee going of folks to surf around the web and send emails to request links from related websites. We are only limited by what we can imagine."}, {"response": 10, "author": "amy2", "date": "Thu, Aug 21, 1997 (10:48)", "body": "That's true, Terry. If somebody could help me in requesting links to related sites, that would be great!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "SuzanneK", "date": "Mon, Sep  1, 1997 (20:16)", "body": "That WAS fun! I just took the test at the kingdomality site. It seems that I would have been a Dreamer-Minstrel in the Middle-Ages. Wow! Being an optimist has always been my nature. A romantic, sentimentalist, visionary and entertainer, traveling around singing and reciting poetry? Sounds perfect for me! To bad Dreamer isn't considered an occupation in the present time. I already do that all the time. I wonder if I can add that to my resume. ;-)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "amy2", "date": "Tue, Sep  2, 1997 (20:04)", "body": "Why not, Suzanne? Have you read any good books about the M.A. lately? I've been a little out of the medieval loop..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "SuzanneK", "date": "Wed, Sep  3, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "No, not lately, Amy. And I'm reading \"The Moon And Sixpence\" and \"Return Of The Native\" at the moment. So it may be awhile..."}, {"response": 14, "author": "amy2", "date": "Wed, Sep  3, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "I love Maugham! Hope you enjoy MOON AND SIXPENCE... I've never read any Hardy though."}, {"response": 15, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (23:31)", "body": "Mine said Benevolent Ruler. Oh, bother... WER"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Rochelle", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (03:03)", "body": "Discoverer! Yes, I'd sail beyond the utmost realms of human thought...well, I do go to exotic locations to scuba dive. But I'd always figured I'd be monk, spending years and years on an illuminated manuscript. Or a Minstrel. Better yet, a dragon."}, {"response": 17, "author": "EmpZoltar", "date": "Tue, Feb 24, 1998 (22:25)", "body": "Well, according to the test, I'm also a \"discoverer.\" That would explain my fascination with Richard Burton. I've always seen myself as more of a swashbucker than anything else. Give me a good horse, some good wine and a good sword, and I'm happy. Of course, I'm also a public menace at that point, so how 'bout you just give me the wine and we'll leave it at that?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Arak", "date": "Wed, Mar 11, 1998 (08:35)", "body": "Your distinct personality, The Prime Minister might be found in most of the thriving kingdoms of the time. You are a strategist who pursues the most efficient and logical path toward the realization of the goal that you perceive or visualize. You will often only associate with those people who can assist you in the implementation of your plan. Inept assistants may be immediately discarded as excess baggage. To do otherwise could be seen as inefficient and illogical. On the positive side, you can be rationally idealistic and analytically ideological. You can be a bold decision maker and risk taker who can move society ahead by years instead of minutes. On the negative side, you may be unmerciful, impatient, arrogant, impetuous and impulsive. Interestingly, your preference is just as applicable in today's corporate kingdoms. Hehe .. suits me rather well I think."}, {"response": 20, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Mar 21, 1998 (21:48)", "body": "White Knight here. Very noble, don't you think?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (00:04)", "body": "benevolant ruler, go figure.."}, {"response": 23, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (01:59)", "body": "does that make you my... queen?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (11:10)", "body": "*gasp* that or we're in different kingdoms. let's not have a war, ok?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (13:54)", "body": "aw, shucks...now how am I gonna justify my defense spending?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (14:04)", "body": "Y our distinct personality, The Benevolent Ruler might be found in most of the thriving kingdoms of the time. You are the idealistic social dreamer. Your overriding goal is to solve the people problems of your world. You are a social reformer who wants everyone to be happy in a world that you can visualize. You are exceptionally perceptive about the woes and needs of humankind. You often have the understanding and skill to readily conceive and implement the solutions to your perceptions. On the positive side, you are creatively persuasive, charismatic and ideologically concerned. On the negative side, you may be unrealistically sentimental, scattered and impulsive, as well as deviously manipulative. Interestingly, your preference is just as applicable in today's corporate kingdoms. (oh well)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (14:07)", "body": "so, it's we three kings? (or would ya'll be more comfortable if I got a new wardrobe and made it we three queens?)"}, {"response": 28, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (14:09)", "body": "'unrealistically sentimental... scattered??? impulsive??? deviously manipulative??? who wrote this bunk??? (and how does s/he know so much about me?)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (14:23)", "body": "me too (benevolent ruler, i mean)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (14:39)", "body": "oooh...now we can be the four rulers of the apocolypse!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (14:51)", "body": "lol bring it on, bubba (\"what rough beast, it's hour come at last, slouches towards bethlehem to be born?\") i'm ready for the bastards, personally..."}, {"response": 32, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (14:55)", "body": "course, i suppose i unwittingly confirmed what the poem presaged in a previous verse: \"... the best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity\"... (ouch)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (16:59)", "body": "'ouch' is right!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Jul 10, 1998 (21:50)", "body": "you gotta be kidding, all four of us benevolent rulers? now that is frightening!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sun, Jul 12, 1998 (06:34)", "body": "actually it seems a bit curious with all the variety in our present day professions medieval conference | Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 8, "subject": "Victorian interpretation", "response_count": 3, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "amy2", "date": "Sat, Sep 20, 1997 (17:43)", "body": "That sounds about right -- in an age of belching factories & clattering railroads, maybe there was a nostalgic movement which harkened back to a simpler time, as there have often been in Russia & America. I didn't know about the Arthurian frescoes at Oxford -- now I want to go!!! I have to confess that I am not thrilled with Tennyson's IDYLLS OF THE KING, and that Lady of Shallot thing is so bizarre, when compared to the original myth. Was Tennyson smoking something, or just trying to come up with something original?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Rochelle", "date": "Tue, Sep 23, 1997 (22:58)", "body": "Some feminist critics have seized upon the \"Lady of Shallot\" as a metaphor for the stifling of the Victorian female artistic spirit. She is creative, but isolated from the rest of society. As soon as the outside world (in the form of Lancelot) intrudes, her work is compromised and she is eventually destroyed. Tennyson might also have identified with her as an artist. The tragic, frustrating thing about the Oxford frescoes is that they have largely faded. The Pre-raphaelites might have been brilliant visionaries, but just occasionally you wish they could have spent some time learning the mundane basics of things such as mixing paints correctly! I don't think recent efforts to restore the works have been too successful. Apparently when they were first painted they had the appearance of an illuminated manuscript painted on the wall. William Morris's painting of Jane Burden, later his wife, as Isolde was done at this time (this is the work often misidentified as Guenivere). Some of Rossetti's studies survive, including one of Lancelot, Guenivere and the angel of the Sanct Grail."}, {"response": 3, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (03:08)", "body": "\"lady of shallot\" was the work of a poet who, even on his best day, was more suited by ability for rhyme than insight- and was also barely in his twenties (and reads as such)... it is beautiful, i think, if appreciated with that in mind... while mallory's \"morte d'arthur\" is undoubtedly superior to \"idylls of the king\", i don't think one can doubt that mallory's text was the literary inspiration (and primary source) for tennyson's... and i think that tennyson's work probably ranks second among arthurian liter- ature, if one is judging simply by artistic merit... been a long time since i've read either, i admit... but i cannot remember any gross deviations (if you're tweaking tennyson for that particular sin)... surely, there were some, but that is understandable... one reason being the countless other sources of material... but the primary one being, i think, the rather personal relationship the celtic poet can easily (even inevitably) erect with arthur, and his legend... arthur embodied two thousand years of glory and tragedy, and it is natural i think to impart one's own dark view upon all tragedy, much less one as seemingly symbolically important (not to mention malleable) as arthur's... however, don't you think the original myth is, if anything, even more bizarre (and even repugnant, when you think about it, and far more deserving of feminist censure)?... guinnevere is one of history's most unjustly maligned individuals, i think, and (beautiful poetry notwithstanding) it would seem only fitting that feminists attempt to rehabilitate her name... the oxford frescoes sound fascinating, by the way... i'm an admirer of both morris and (especially) rossetti... have read of these, but never seen them (will look them up, next time i'm in a real library)... medieval conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 9, "subject": "Dante", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}]}