{"conf": "motorcycle", "generated_at": "2026-04-26T08:00:02.954878Z", "threads": [{"num": 1, "subject": "introductions", "response_count": 290, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Shane", "date": "Thu, Oct  9, 1997 (17:35)", "body": "Hey Terry, I am a Motorcycle Crossroader who I think will be here quite a bit... Just kinda waiting to see if the rest of the crowd makes it...... HEY FOLKS, WHERE ARE YA'S ???"}, {"response": 2, "author": "DTaylor", "date": "Thu, Oct  9, 1997 (19:56)", "body": "Hi Shane, Dennis here, just like the name says. Wonder if others from xroads will show up? We're here, thanks for this spot to hang out. Dennis"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Oct 10, 1997 (10:41)", "body": "HEY! It works! Any port in a storm...Thanks to all involved for a decent place to rest. The CrossRoaders know I'll be back!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Oct 10, 1997 (15:33)", "body": "Good to see some familiar faces... I'll start a fire.. Someone else get the beer and we can get back to the business of shootin the stuff. I didn't get to use the \"New\" Crossroads much... Dang corporate firewalls... :-) Look forward to seeing ya'll again soon...."}, {"response": 5, "author": "TRA", "date": "Sun, Oct 12, 1997 (03:25)", "body": "Hi guys looks like some of us are starting to gather from the old crossroads"}, {"response": 6, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Oct 12, 1997 (04:34)", "body": "Alright, some of the Crossroads folk are already here. This place is like that little out of the way pub nobody knows about. I see Dennis has stopped in. Hope he has fun at the dealer convention in Orlando (where he's in route to right now..lucky dog). Good scoops coming soon I hope. Hey Frank good to see ya and Shane..I'll take a brew. Paul, did you set this place up? Jon pointed us here. Love the out of the way location."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Oct 12, 1997 (10:49)", "body": "Out of the way! Ya mean we're some backwater hangout? Well, we're trying to change that. We got our childrenstory site on WebTV's main list and the main Spring page got about 60k hits in the last month, and the rest of the Spring gets about 5,000 to 10,000 impressions a day. We are getting diverse when motorcycles and bikes co-exist with Emily Bronte and women drooling over move and tv stars."}, {"response": 8, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Oct 12, 1997 (12:52)", "body": "Not in the least Paul. I shoulda finished the sentence. This place is like that little out of the way pub nobody knows about, a new find that's a cool place to go and meet new people. With all the other conferences here to check out it'll cover most folks varied interests. Backwater..heck no. Where'd the name Spring come from. I got relatives north of Houston in the Humble area just south of Spring, TX. Any correlation? Lots and lots of pine trees. After three years in Texas, if I had to move back..it'd b Austin. Big city that's not too big, jumpin with a good night life, high tech companies for work, and some great hills and country roads all around for riding."}, {"response": 9, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Oct 12, 1997 (19:01)", "body": "No, Kevin, it's out of Austin Texas, which is a long way from Spring. Better ask Terry where it came from. And you're right about Austin. I considered a position in Austin recently but decided that Colorado is home. There is better riding in the Texas Hill Country than in Colorado. The scenery is not as magnificent, though."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (02:02)", "body": "Better not let Stacey that dig at Colorado, she's our transplanted Austin Colorado gal (you'll usually find her in the food and fitness conferences). She doesn't have a bike, but she has some mean rollerblades. The name Spring didn't come from Spring, Texas, it came from a play on the WELL (another conferencing system) and from Barton Springs, Austin's famous watering hole. And I just liked that name and got it registered early in the game."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (09:53)", "body": "Hello all Another xroads soul doing the transfer, thanks to all involved in making it possible Sheb"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "Glad to see you Sheb, you're also on my AOL list (shebhd?)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (13:48)", "body": "Hey Paul... I do so have a bike. I just have to use my own power to make it go. I've ridden on the back of a motorcycle once. Scared the bejesus outta me at first but then I rather enjoyed it. Unless, I'm reading it wrong... nobody dissed Colorado. And power bike or not, the Texas hill country does have better riding. I do Love these mountians though!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (19:20)", "body": "Howdy Stacey! Yeah, riding on the back used to scare the bejeezus out of me too--riding on the front is much more fun."}, {"response": 15, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Tue, Oct 14, 1997 (03:53)", "body": "Wish I had a bike when I was in Texas. East of Austin was so pretty with the hills and trees, then west of Austin had less foliage, but almost canyonland like along the Colorado River. I'd leave the Killeen area and head west on the way back to California to visit home and took the back roads as far as I could before hooking up on I10. Never did slide north to I20 and go thru San Angelo. I do think the ride all the way to California would be long on a bike..at least near the interstates. You'd have to hea thru N.NM and N.AZ. Colorado would be cool (literally and figuratively). I work for HP and there's a couple of sites there. Ft. Collins (N.W. of Denver) area and Colorado Springs. I could transfer. I'd have to get a snowmobile for sure then."}, {"response": 16, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Oct 14, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "Why does everything have to have a motor? Speed is relative and if your crusing down a mountain on a mountain bike (all season BTW) you feel like you are going pretty damn fast!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Oct 14, 1997 (12:56)", "body": "But then you get those hills & inclines, and big cages..."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Oct 14, 1997 (13:00)", "body": "When I moved out of NYC I used my old Ross 10-speed as daily transport, until a carload of \"kids\" bounced me off their door for laffs. That day I got a friend's little Yamaha 175 and *rode* to school for the rest of the year."}, {"response": 19, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Oct 14, 1997 (17:52)", "body": "Stacey, I've never understood the \"Motorbike Vs. Bike\" argument. It's two entirely different deals. What you do is compare \"Motorbike vs. Cars\" and you'll find for the fun factor the motorcycle comes out WAAAY in front. Most people own cars and many people own bicycles (which I also enjoy), but Motorcycling puts you in a small and elite group. And besides, bicycles are suited for some situations and motorcycles others. Sure you can cover 600 miles on a bicycle and have a good time, but if you've got only a few days to spare and want to visit, say, Colorado, which are you going to take?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (10:51)", "body": "Good point. And yes, I would prefer motorbike over car (if I were a competent rider). Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintanence was a favorite read simply because they were on a trek to enjoy it not just to get from point A to pont B. I guess I just get my feathers ruffled because when I lived in Austin, MTBs and motorbikes would compete for some of the same trail space. Guess who lost? Here's a question. If anyone of you lays your bike down (accidently of course) can you get out from under it easily? Is that part of how you judge what is appropriate for you to ride? Or is it simply, the bigger the better?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "I can think of no situation where any rider couldn't atleast get out from under the bike. Sure, I'm 6 foot 180 pounds and if I dropped my GoldWing I wouldn't be able to get it vertical again, but I wouldn't have a problem getting out from under it."}, {"response": 22, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "Where abouts in Colorado are you located, Stacey?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "I live in Englewood and work in Denver. In case you're unfamiliar with the area, Englewood is just south of Denver and about 10 minutes from the foothills of Littleton. The area is beautiful and I've found several excellent trails within a very short distance from my home. Every morning I drive east into the tising sun and every afternoon I come home toward the mountains and the sunset."}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (14:41)", "body": "Your ears must have been burning up, Stacey! I run in to Austin with the sun at my back in the morning on Hwy 71 and back to Cedar Creek with the sun behind me at night. It's a nice drive too. I saw a guy on a motorcycle this morning and he was really cruising along, couldn't tell the make/model though. It had those high bars. What do folsk think of high wide bars?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (18:40)", "body": "I know where Englewood is. I do contract work for a company in the Tech Center, but I live in Bailey. It's awesome to be up here in the mountains."}, {"response": 26, "author": "silverwing", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (22:47)", "body": "It's good to know we have another place to meet and still have the same good company. I plan to be posting more now that the weather is deteriorating in the East. The SWing has been sold and I have two empty spaces in my garage for junk to fill. I had an erie experience the other day watching someone else ride my bike.... Is that what it's like after your first bike? Anyway, I'm enjoying the Voyager and hopefully will try to start a chapter in the Mid-Atlantic area for the American Voyager Associatio . Tell your friends...................... Voyager"}, {"response": 27, "author": "leroy", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "Well, here I am on this list. It's good to see a lot of the x-roaders here. I'm not on ICQ yet as my hard drive is so full I don't have enough room to download anything. Its not too good when you have less than 2 megs free disc space. As soon as I get a new one (I'm looking at a 6.4 Gig to replace my 500 meg)I'll give you all my ICQ #. Kathryn has been after me to get on ICQ for ages now. For those of you who don't know me, I live in Burnaby, BC, right next to Vancouver, about 125 miles north of Seattle. ride a '92 Goldwing, kind of an ironbutt sort of rider as I prefer long distance riding to short day trips. I sing with a men's Barbershop music chorus (at our last competition in Indianapolis,we placed as the best singing chorus in Canada, 17th in the world). I also enjoy photography and work for the local phone company in their data test center. Hope to hear from the rest of you X-Roaders quite a bit now that we have another home."}, {"response": 28, "author": "yves", "date": "Thu, Oct 16, 1997 (02:13)", "body": "Another Xroader. Equal to myself,always late but there. Yves"}, {"response": 29, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct 16, 1997 (10:18)", "body": "I've heard of Bailey but am unsure of its exact location. Next time you're in the area, let me know!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Alfor", "date": "Thu, Oct 16, 1997 (12:40)", "body": "O.K., Jon, I took your advice and am here. As the XRoaders know, I have two bicycles that work and a motorcycle that doesn't. I am currently over 1000 miles away from the bike and one of the bicycles, and will be until early next month. The bicycles are used for short distance commuting and general transport. I intend to use the motorcycle to travel long distances (> 10 miles) and over mountain roads to expand my horizons in my native Jamaica (I'm in Queretaro, Mexico now). I'm sorry that Faffi won't be here, but I expect to see most of the rest of XRoads here, at least until XRoads MkIII is ready (Are you listening, Jon?) 'Bye 4 now and Ride 4 Ever, Sam Blob"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Oct 16, 1997 (19:22)", "body": "Man I feel like I walked in on a good party! Great going!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Oct 17, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "I forgot my password and re-registered."}, {"response": 33, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Oct 17, 1997 (12:14)", "body": "*giggle* good going."}, {"response": 34, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sat, Oct 18, 1997 (04:54)", "body": "*giggle* ?? Jon, did you tell her what we do people that giggle? *grins* BTW, I thought the summmer was over. It was 89 degrees out today and mid 80s all weekend here in the Big Valley. What am I to do? There's a charity event both Sat and Sun called \"Wheels & Hooves\". It's a mc/horse rally charity that takes young people who need counseling and they give them a horse to take care of..one that was abused itself and has been taken from a negligent owner. It helps the young folk learn responsibility and self esteem and helps save horses who have been abused. Sounds interesting.. ove horses and motorbikes."}, {"response": 35, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Oct 18, 1997 (13:46)", "body": "Yeah, Kev, we're tough bikers. We do not giggle!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Oct 19, 1997 (01:11)", "body": "Hehe, it is kind of refreshing though..."}, {"response": 37, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (10:37)", "body": "I am proud to be a giggler, cackler, chuckler, grinner and laugher. Any combination of the aforementioned actions seems to brighten the bright times and make the darker days go by more swiftly. *smile*"}, {"response": 38, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Oct 21, 1997 (17:47)", "body": "What did you do, Terry, go to the Whole Life Expo just to take pictures of the women? (Grin)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (02:19)", "body": "Mostly, as you can see I had a great time there. I got a great massage from one of the best. I got zapped, tinctured, potioned, hyssopped, candled, rocked, taroted, i-chinged and you name it! What a fun event. It may be the best event of the year in Austin."}, {"response": 40, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (13:40)", "body": "Typical Paul... typical! *smile*"}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (21:03)", "body": "What, no giggle this time?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (10:36)", "body": "I have to be tickled in appropriate places to constitute a giggle!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (12:19)", "body": "Uh, how about *here*?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (14:19)", "body": "LOL That was almost too funny, deserved more than a giggle."}, {"response": 45, "author": "mirmir", "date": "Sun, Nov  2, 1997 (00:25)", "body": "hello, i am over here from Terry's link at the Well, i have enjoyed seeing all the webcam events on the Spring front door, thought i should stop in and say hi. i am considering buying a small motorbike next spring, is there a particular topic i should be posting in, to ask questions and get some suggestions?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "yves", "date": "Sun, Nov  2, 1997 (01:05)", "body": "Welcome in the marvelous world of motorcycling. People over here aren't close minded and so are topics. So feel free to post were you think is best but it's not that important. Or ask Terry to add a new topic for newbiers. Yves"}, {"response": 47, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov  2, 1997 (01:09)", "body": "Great idea Yves, it's topic creation time. Would you like to create a new topic mirmir? Glad you're joing us, welcome!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Nov  2, 1997 (14:25)", "body": "Have you ever ridden a motorcycle before, Mir? If not, have you ever ridden a bicycle? I'm a beginner myself; I have been for most of this year. I bought a non-running bike from my employers and was going to get it fixed (after having done all that I could do myself!) when I left home for a four-month course in M\ufffdxico (I go back home this Saturday!) I do NOT recommend that you do what I did (unless you have masochistic tendencies!) What I do recommend is that you take some test rides (I hear that dealers don't allow this usually, but that test rides are available at bike rallies) and see what you like. You say you want a small bike; I would therefore suggest you try the Honda Nighthawk 250, the Rebel 250, the Yamaha Virago 250, and the MZ Silver Star (discontinued, but still in showrooms). If you are interested in dual-purpose bikes (for use on- or off- road), Yamaha, Honda nad Suzuki all make small D-Ps (but Kawasaki doesn t, and Yamaha only makes small ones.) If your pocket is shallow, as mine is, you will probably be buying a used bike. If you have any friends who ride, get their advice about ANY used bike you're interested in, especially if they maintain their own rides. This will help you avoid pieces of old junk posing as prospective rides and may lead you to a bargain that the seller doesn't appreciate. Do NOT buy a bike on impulse or emotion (I learned this the hard way!) Jon and the others should have something to add; they have experience with may different kinds of bikes and gan give you more details as to what to look for and what to avoid."}, {"response": 49, "author": "mirmir", "date": "Mon, Nov  3, 1997 (16:42)", "body": "started topic 16 and copied some posts over there."}, {"response": 50, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov  4, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "Great, notice americ just introduced himself in the vc conference, I hope some folks welcome him!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Bubba", "date": "Tue, Nov  4, 1997 (23:06)", "body": "Hey I'm a 44 year old geezer who should know better but in process of buying 93 ZX 11."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Bubba", "date": "Tue, Nov  4, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "Oh yeah, my wife hates motorcycles"}, {"response": 53, "author": "lycaenion", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (02:08)", "body": "Hey, terry. I came over here from the Well. Cool spot. I'll stay."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (08:38)", "body": "Hey Bub, good to see you. My wife also thinks bikes are for undergrown adults. Remember, keep those magazines away from her, or the ZX might disappear!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Kasey", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (12:39)", "body": "Hi! I've been reading here the last couple of weeks and finally realized I haven't posted as yet. As a CrossRoader, it's good to see so many in this spot. Kathryn."}, {"response": 56, "author": "LarryG", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (21:58)", "body": "Howdy, I've been looking for a place to talk about riding. I have been riding motorcycles for 37 years now, still can't get enough. I know there are others out like me. My wife and I just got back to Virginia after picking our bike up in California. It was a great trip as all are. Always meet the nicest people on a motorcycle! I'm looking forward to kicking tires with you. Ride safe."}, {"response": 57, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (22:58)", "body": "What bike did you have to go to California to get? Tell us more."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "Larry, great to \"see\" you here! Sound like a riders' rider! Would love to hear of a cross country excursion from somewhere other than a Salvadori article!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (09:43)", "body": "Larry Mueller...You're not with U2, are you (then again, is anyone in U2 old enough to have been riding 37 years?) Cannonballing the U.S.; that's probably more riding than I'll do all of next year! Sounds interesting!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "LarryG", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (10:16)", "body": "Hi there, It's great to be here, it sounds like you guys have been around the block once of twice as well. We have been on BMW's mostly however had to leave them when we moved to Virginia 5 years ago. We inherited the Susuki GS850L that we picked up in California. That's one tough bike for those of you not familar with them. It's an 1983 modle and had been in storage for 6 years before jumping on it and heading East. What a ride, as always it was to short, only 3 thousand miles. Just a note about the trip then I have to hit the hay (I work nights). We left the San Francisco bay area, almost due East up to Sonora CA and on over Sonora Pass. I have been all over the states by bike and there are few Passes that compair, just all around beatiful. From there into Carson City, NV. There is a story here I have to tell. So I'll finish for now and see you all later."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (10:31)", "body": "Anyone gonna call Nick?? (o;}"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "Eirik might be interested too, but he's kicked the bulletin-board habit :-}"}, {"response": 63, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (11:28)", "body": "Yeah, what happened to Nick?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "Howdy Jon, Blob, Frank, and company. First post here. Decided to take the plunge since XRoads was fritzing on me (hope it's not gone?). Anyway, for those who don't know me, I'm a 36 year old economist (what's that?), married, no kids (none planned), have two awesome dogs (a Doberman and a Beagle), and I ride my Harley Road King whenever, and where ever I can (trailers are for boats)! Aren't introductions awkward? Where's the chips and dip? hehe"}, {"response": 65, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (14:10)", "body": "The bold symbols will work here too, Brad! Yep, XRoads is gone! I e-mailed Jon this morning and he said that either they pulled the plug or the page has crashed; and there's no-one left to fix it."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (14:12)", "body": "Brad: \"I ride my Harley Road King whenever, and where ever I can (trailers are for boats)!\" That doesn't include to & from work, does it? What does an economist carry to & from work that can't fit in an RK's saddlebags?"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (14:17)", "body": "Oh, sure it does Sam. At least on dress down day! hehe It's about a 90 mile round trip for me, along a very nice parkway, so I really enjoy it. As far as what I need to bring--just the briefcase, which tucks right into one of the bags just fine--leaves room for chaps, etc...in the other one. Can I check your ID buddy!"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (14:22)", "body": "Yup, that looks like the Brad we XRoaders all know! Welcome aboard!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (14:41)", "body": "Good to see ya Brad! We need more!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (14:50)", "body": "Thanks Sammy. You're a true scholar and a gentleBlob! ;-]"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (14:57)", "body": "Don't worry, they'll come when they realize XRoads is gone. Jon, d'ya have any idea when (or if) another XRoads (Mk III) can be floated?"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (15:01)", "body": "Glad to be on (this) line Frank. BTW, enjoyed the wrap session this morning. XRoads R.I.P."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (15:01)", "body": "Thanks Sammy. You're a true scholar and a gentleBlob! ;-]"}, {"response": 74, "author": "Shane", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (18:06)", "body": "BRAD!!! Man, have I missed our Harley banter... Good to see ya bud... Shane"}, {"response": 75, "author": "LarryG", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "Maybe I need a little help here. Should I be posting my ride in another area or is this just for introducions? As you Know I'm new here. thanks"}, {"response": 76, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (21:55)", "body": "I don't know what happened to XRoads MKII, and there are no plans currently for a MKIII. Right now I'm working from home so it wouldn't be possible, with my 28.8 modem, to run it here. Perhaps in three or four months. Spring is great in the meantime, though. I didn't know you were an economist. Of what school of thought? Not a Keynsian, I hope.... ;-)"}, {"response": 77, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "We don't follow the topics too closely, Larry. There is, however, a \"my current ride is a ________ \" section, which you may want to use. But don't worry--no one is going to get mad if you post it here."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (09:58)", "body": "Well, amazingly enough, XRoads Mk II is back, but I don't know for how long."}, {"response": 79, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (11:57)", "body": "Shane--glad to be here and see you too--thanks! Jon, I am of my own school of thought, but I was trained in both Keynesian (under grad) and Classical (grad) approaches. Of course, now most theories about inflation, unemployment, etc. are less valuable than the paper they were written on. Then again, economists have always be great at making up new theories to explain the future based on what they didn't know about the past! hehe Back to the Future, Part 3?"}, {"response": 80, "author": "LarryG", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (18:03)", "body": "Hi all, been away but would like to continue my story of my trip to VA from CA. I had last mentioned riding into Carson City, Nevada. Here we had some trouble with the carburetors , as you may remember this bike had been in storage for six years before starting our trip. We had completely cleaned the Carbs or so we thought. We found a place and mechanic that is worthy of lavish praise. The place Carson City Yamaha, the mechanic is Jack. The work and charges were great. Jack is a trained motorcycle mechani from the old school, this means to me, one who gets you back on the rode (somehow) with out gouging your wallet. I highly recommend if you should ever have bike problems in their neck of the woods, look them up, no matter what machine you're on. Headed east on Hgwy.. 50, mighty lonely road out there, for those of you unfamiliar with it. As Jack the mechanic said he's seen Jack Rabbits out there carrying canteens. Actually today there are watering holes about every fifty miles, so not as bad as I had remembered from five years earlier when my brothers and I had made that same run. This is still no place to be low on gas or with out a bottle of water. The weather was definitely on our side, not too hot or cold. We stayed on 50 right on into Utah. This where Nora caught up with us, but was pretty much played out. We had a sprinkly ride through some gorgeous country in Utah, anyone that's been their knows. Hgwy. 50 is a little north of the really beautiful scenery that Utah has to offer but no complaints here. We are only averaging 300 miles a day, we don't like to rush when ride. I'm sorry I hadn't mentioned it before but where that bike and I go so go s my wife. She loves to ride (only as a passenger) almost as much as I. From the sounds of some of the other riders whose wives don't even like bikes, I consider myself very lucky. Have to run, to be continued. Ride Safe."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (21:17)", "body": "Hey guys. Am I the last XROADer hold-out? I think they pulled the plug just as I was doing a wonderful response to Brad...it was a little long...answering Brad about his statement for turning a shovelhead into a decent ride. Anyway, over here, thought I would try a real name for a while. I have completely come down in steps...first it was Master Blaster, then the Blast Man, then Blaster Ed, and now, jsut plain Ed. It is hard to grow up. Anyway, good to see familiar faces here. For SheBee...Any plans solidifying for you making it over here for Sturgis? The Gold Wing will be ready to roll...I am leaving VA BEACH the PM of 31 July. Guess the \"official\" dates for Sturgis '98 is 3-9 August. I expect to roll in the evening of the 4th. Anyway folks, glad to be here. Ed"}, {"response": 82, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (21:36)", "body": "Not taking the Harley, Ed?"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (21:43)", "body": "Yeah Jon, the Harley is going, but I had offered up the Gold Wing for SheBee's use when she said she would like to come over and go to Sturgis, but didn't know about a rental bike (I offered it up for her use for the price of a new front tire). Last time she and I posted direct, it was still a very up in the air thing...whether or not she thought she could ride an older Wing, due to the nature of the seating. Ed"}, {"response": 84, "author": "LarryG", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (23:36)", "body": "Hi Ed, Thought I'd introduce myself, I'm Larry and I too live in Virginia (Fredricksburg). Please excuse my ignorance but I have no idea what a XDOADer is, can you fill me in. I've got a few years of riding under my belt and always curious. Hope you have fun in Sturgis."}, {"response": 85, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (23:43)", "body": "An XRoader is someone who used to hang out at \"Motorcycle Crossroads\", a bulletin board for bikers (like Ed) and others just interested in bikes (like self, though I hope that'll change by Christmas!) I got on XRoads on Friday, in Mexico, but I can't seem to get it here! I'm not entirely certain that it's down for the count, but it seems to be on a standing-8 just now!"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "Hi Ed. Gee, sorry I missed your response on Shovels at XRoads. As I remember, Shebee pointed out that despite the AMF reputation, not all Shovels were $^%$. I agree. In fact, everything I read and hear suggests that the AMF Shovels can be made very reliable if you know what you're doing. Would love to get your perspective on it. Glad to see you here. Call me a Blockhead, but I'm certainly not afraid of Shovels! hehe"}, {"response": 87, "author": "Shane", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (15:24)", "body": "Hey Ed, long time no see, good to have you here on a board I can actually access..... hehehe Shane"}, {"response": 88, "author": "Ed", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (08:28)", "body": "Hey Shane, Brad, Larry, Sam...good to see you all. Larry, I always have fun at Sturgis, and other places, too. Fun is where you make it. Brad...I figured the AMF Harleys got a bad rap. Harley made some compromises that cost them, but it was still HD engineering, and HD parts. The shovelhead was more advanced than the pan, and certainly better than the knuckle. Just like anything, if you use it hard, it wears out. When that happens, you either get rid of it, or fix it with something a little bit bett r. Thanks for aftermarket! Because of the direction HD has gone, they don't have to play to a tough crowd. I want to stay off my soapbox here, because I know this is introductions. Catch you in some other thread. Ed"}, {"response": 89, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "\"Home is where the heart is\"? No, \"Fun is where your bike is\". For those keeping up with the XRoads saga, I don't know why it's been coming and going, but they're going to take the server completely down \"sometime in the next two weeks\"."}, {"response": 90, "author": "stu", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (20:42)", "body": "Greetings ! My name is Stu, and I work at Motorcycle Mechanics Inst. in Phoenix, AZ. Good to see a number of X roaders here keepin' the Faith ! Looking forward to join you all as soon as I catch up !"}, {"response": 91, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (01:22)", "body": "Hey Stu! Ain't seen you in a while. Good to have you back."}, {"response": 92, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (02:06)", "body": "Looks like the gangs all here for the most part. Yeah, I noticed XRoads going in and out. Just logged on and there are no new posts to read. Guess I'll just stop looking there and coming here instead. Larry, great ride cross-country. I did Colorado from California this year and came back on the Loneliest Highway (US50). Gas about every 100 miles..don't miss filling up. Can't wait to read about the segment from Utah to Virginia. I see Brad finally made it in here along with Ed and Kathryn..Stu too. It's nice to see some new blood as well. Hope us bikers don't keep the women out..very nice to see those posts."}, {"response": 93, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (03:04)", "body": "What are you talking about? Shebee and Kathryn are always sure to keep us in (out of?) line!"}, {"response": 94, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (13:30)", "body": "And I'll post frequently enough to be the monkey in the wrench!"}, {"response": 95, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (15:14)", "body": "Watch it she'll throw a monkey in the wrench."}, {"response": 96, "author": "Shane", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (15:42)", "body": "Hey Stu good to see ya, Katherine Howdy as well......."}, {"response": 97, "author": "Ed", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "Hey, Stu...good to see you hear. Ed"}, {"response": 98, "author": "Ed", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (20:01)", "body": "Just looked at my last post...can't seem to spell as good here as I used to in XROADS....I am so embarassed... Ed"}, {"response": 99, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (22:12)", "body": "That's O.K., Ed, we know you ain't that stoopid."}, {"response": 100, "author": "yves", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (13:06)", "body": "Hoping that we are not on a spelling exam, I'll never pass Yves"}, {"response": 101, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (17:45)", "body": "Sure, Yves, but atleast you have an excuse, unlike Ed hear. ;-)"}, {"response": 102, "author": "LarryG", "date": "Fri, Nov 14, 1997 (08:41)", "body": "Well, I've had a chance to continue my story about my trip across the states. At last writing I left off leaving Utah, still following Hgwy. 50. Just getting close to Colorado and the Rocky Mountains is enough to perk me right up. I think most will agree it's always a great ride when you roll through those mountains and this was no exception. The weather was on our side and I don't take that lightly in Colorado. All along the way we had been watching the Aspen turning to yellow as fall was under way. You can't help from being impressed as you approach the Rockies, they really are majestic. I have been over this route a few times and I can assure you, you never get tiered of it. We stayed in a small town called Salida, it epitomizes the warm hospitality of the people who chose to live in the mountains. If you find yourself in that part of the country, stop and take in this little slice of heaven. It was necessary for us to head into Colorado Springs and pickup Hgwy. 24 up to Interstate 70 and into flatter eastern side of Colorado. Moving right along into Kansas. Ok, what can I say about Kansas, if you've been there you know my dilemma. As luck would have it just about the whole stretch of Hgwy. 70 was either under construction or needed to be, badly. Then there is the wind! We spent almost the whole trip across Kansas leaning to the left, the wind is always coming down from the north. I have to a mit the endless fields of sunflowers is quite a sight. It was on one of those many stretches of construction where we hit a \"dump\" and trunk which is also the back rest flipped right off. You can imagine my wife was none too happy with that. The next day we pulled into a brake shop (the only thing around) and asked them to drill a couple of holes through the trunk and its frame and bolt it on, they did and only charged five dollars, most mechanics can't even write out the bill for that! I will stop here and finish our story tomorrow. Have fun, ride safe."}, {"response": 103, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Nov 14, 1997 (10:05)", "body": "Ahh, Larry, thank you. I enjoy reading about such travel, especially since I just finished scraping sleet and ice off my buggy this morning!"}, {"response": 104, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Nov 14, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "Larry, I've been to Kansas and know you're dilemma. It's hard to hold your nose and steer at the same time!"}, {"response": 105, "author": "Molelakehoop", "date": "Sat, Nov 15, 1997 (12:29)", "body": "Greetings to all X-Roaders! I see that X-Roads is about to go through the dying quivers. Thanks to Jon for providing the forum. Your time and efforts certainly have been appreciated! Right now we have about 2 inches of snow on the ground in Northern Wisconsin. It will no doubt stay until the meltdown in April. The swapmeet season for me starts on Nov 30th. I am looking forward to the numerous swap meets even though they are nothing like they used to be. The swap meet bargain of the year (for this last year) was a pair of Indian dirt bikes for sale for $150 (for both). They didn't run, had no titles, had many missing parts, but both had a beautiful Indian gas tank. I had just bought a Kawie Spectre about 20 minutes earlier and had no room on my pickup (or so I thought). I walked around the swap meet looking for other goodies. After talking it over with my friend--I decided to buy the Indian dirt bikes. Guess what--they were gone! I wound up buying a near mint exhaust system for a 79 Sports er. Harley only made this exhaust system for 1 year. Finding this for $125 was a real bargain. The police chief in my town now has it for his 79 Sporty. Glad to be on this new forum!!! Hoop"}, {"response": 106, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Nov 15, 1997 (13:01)", "body": "Hi Hoop, good to see ya again.... Is the Spectre going to be a Big Project?? Nice looking machines and they ran like hell.... Are you going to stick to the Black/gold paint pinstripe theme?? Someday the time will come that I will be able to afford about 2 project bikes a year... the Spectre is on the list..."}, {"response": 107, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Nov 15, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "Hey good to see you Hoop! Y'know, there are almost NO swapmeets for bikes here. Just car stuff. I'd love to get in on one at some point. What's the overall intention for the Spectre? i seem to remember 'em as excellent bulletproof streeters when not abused by draggers."}, {"response": 108, "author": "Molelakehoop", "date": "Sat, Nov 15, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "The Spectre is not a project at all. It's a 1982 1100 in stock condition with 12k miles on the clock. Its my go fast bike. It needs nothing. I know the newer bikes put this to shame, but I'll stick with this--thank you very much. Believe it or not, I prefer the Spectre to the 73 Z-1 I had. A friend has a 73 Z-1 that is sitting outside rusting!! Numerous attempts to get him to take care of the bike (or at least sell it to someone who will) have proven fruitless. The swap meets are numerous in Wisconsin. After all--we have to have some bike events in the long winters to keep from going bonkers. 90 % of the bikes/parts at the swap meets are Harleys with Triumph making up the difference. I thing nothing of traveling 200 miles to go to a swap meet. The swap meet heritage is colorful. 20 years ago you could put together a complete bike from various booths at swap meets (buy a frame here, a tranny there, a motor and electrics here--and behold--a swap meet special) The swap meets have changed drastically in the last 5 years. About 4 years ago, German nationals bought up enormous amounts of panhead and shovelhead parts--thus driving the price through the roof. The price has since dropped--but never again will drop to the pre buying spree days. The people that have booths are searching other booths for underpriced items so they can resell them at a profit. As with anything in the world we live in, money dictates everything. There is a Japanese/European swap meet in our area that is growing every year. By the way--I like all motorcycles from Kawasaki to BMW to Harley. Some of my many friends that own Harleys think I'm nuts for owning bikes other than Harleys. The ones that yell the loudest are the ones that ride the least (or not ride at all--they just own a Harley) !! I have ridden a chopped Harley to a Gold Wing event and a Kawasaki to a Harley event--guess what--nobody cared!! I have this desire to keep trying different things when it comes to motorcycles. My next project (this year or next) will be to put a sidecar on my R100 Beemer. Who knows--I might even like it!! Regards Hoop"}, {"response": 109, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sun, Nov 16, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "I think you are entirely justified in your thought of liking the Spectre better than the 73 Z1... The early Z1's had some serious frame deficeincies that came with putting all that power into a bike of the early 70's. Because of this they handled poorly and frame stress could be critical. IMHO, you lucked out getting a Spectre in such fine shape... Most who bought them rodded them to no end and they ended up trashed... What did you pay for it and when can I have it?? ;o) You also should have your fri nds head checked.... Jon and I know a guy in San Angelo that has a whole collection of Z1's and they bring a premium when restored to stock, not to mention the fact that they are Primo Drag Bikes.... Sounds like your philosiophy on bikes is very similar to mine.. If it's a bike, I proably want it... hehehe"}, {"response": 110, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 16, 1997 (23:45)", "body": "Stacey, we aren't in Kansas anymore."}, {"response": 111, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (09:54)", "body": "Interesting, Hoop, that the speculation crap hits even swap meets. Cycle World has a little article on a couple who lives from one meet to the next, and in so doing found a way to restore a 1929 HD with Goulding sidecar, a beautiful piece."}, {"response": 112, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "Thank god!"}, {"response": 113, "author": "LarryG", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "Hi all, I thought I would try to wrap up my ride out to Virginia. Nowe are not in Kansas anymore (Stacey ;-) The ride through Missouri, Indiana and points east start to run together after a couple of days. Don't misunderstand me it's great riding but how many time can you say that. Once we started getting into the sort of typical soft rolling hills characteristic of the eastern states you couldn't slap those silly grins off our faces. Compared to Hwy.. 50 through Nevada where the road always stretches to the next horizon, this is a riders paradise. I love the way the eastern states ribbon their roads through th country side. Fall was in the air and we felt we could ride like this for ever. We had by this time slid into a very comfortable routine. We would start the day around 7AM with about an hour and a half ride and then stop for breakfast. After a couple more hours and a few sightseeing stops it's time to grab another bite. We like nothing better than to find a small town and look for where the locals seem to be hanging their hats, you can get some good eats that way. We would then asses how the day has prog essed and try to determine where we thought we'd spend the night, tough huh. One thing was for sure once we were off the bike for the day we walked and it stayed put. As we rode into the state of West Virginia we knew our trip was drawing to a close. Be that as it may, we had some terrific miles in front of us. We stayed in a motel on the Kanawha river in Charleston, West Virginia, it was gorgeous. It's the first time I had ever witnessed a barge being push up a river. I still can't believe that pilot did what he or she did. That barge or more precise barges, I think there were five of them hooked together and one little tug at the end. That pilot had to turn right th re in front of us and what a maneuver, the tug would stop and this huge barge, would by the current, start to swing around. This was all done at night and I mean it was dark and they would shine these big spot lights on the banks for a sense of bearing. We sat out there and watch this for an hour until they got that thing swung around and heading up the middle again, quite a site. We were home a day and a half that. We have a ton of good memories and a solid resolve to get to know the east coast as well as we know the west coast. Thank you for your interest and an opportunity to share this with you. Have fun, ride safe."}, {"response": 114, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "Sounds like a mind cleansing, spirit lifting experience!"}, {"response": 115, "author": "LarryG", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (09:02)", "body": "Spoken like someone whose been there!"}, {"response": 116, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (11:38)", "body": "Larry, that sounds like a great trip. It seems like every part of the country has something unique to offer riders. Living in DC, it's easy to forget how nice I have it with attractions like the Blue Ridge Parkway, and rural West Virginia so close by. For me, the only part of the East Coast I haven't seen much of is New England. I hear nothing but rave reviews of Upstate New York, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine. In fact, I am bound and determined to attend the Laconia rally in New Hampshire one of these years. It's the oldest rally in the country, with incredible scenery and spectacular riding. You can't see it all, but you can sure have fun trying!"}, {"response": 117, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (12:20)", "body": "Do Vermont in the fall! Amazing colors EVERYWHERE!"}, {"response": 118, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "When were you there?"}, {"response": 119, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "Spent many summers around Lake Champlain as a younger guy, very beautiful place. Saw an original 50's Ferrari Barchetta haring around there several times!"}, {"response": 120, "author": "LarryG", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (09:08)", "body": "Rodehogger you are so right, everyplace you go you can find something interesting. I don't think there is a state that doesn't have something to offer if you take the time to find it. fortunately I've had the opportunity to have seen a good majority of them by motorcycle. Thanks for the tips on places to ride on the east coast. A few years back my wife and I flew out to Boston on vacation and drove a car :-( to up-state New York where she was born. This was in the fall and it was beautiful. We knew for sure one-day we would return with a proper mode of transportation and see area the way it was meant to be seen. She also is the one that got me down to Virginia and once here I didn't want to leave. We had no idea in two short years we'd be living here. Now that we have the bike we can explore to our hearts content. I would highly recommend to anyone a tour of the Civil War battle fields in and about Fredericksburg. I live and work here and never get tiered of them. A little run over to the Chesapeake Bay for a some spiced grab never hurts either."}, {"response": 121, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (12:15)", "body": "Larry, I went to undergraduate college in Fredericksburg! Neat town--really liked it. My buddy rented a house that was a Civil War hospital, and as you know, the college (M. Washington) is built along Sunken Road, where the Confederate troops mowed down the Union forces who were advancing from the river up the hill. Of course, many locals there still refer to the Civil War as \"The War of Northern Aggression\"! Honey, why are you loading that musket?"}, {"response": 122, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "Hey! I do too!"}, {"response": 123, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "History books are generally written by the winners..."}, {"response": 124, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (20:24)", "body": "Very, very true. Which is the exact reason why the north weren't a bunch of valiant crusaders fighting for slaves' rights, as I was taught in grade school. But I suppose I may have just opened up a big old can of worms."}, {"response": 125, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (08:59)", "body": "We love those cans of worms, they start conversations."}, {"response": 126, "author": "LarryG", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (09:03)", "body": "I have a bulletin for ya all, some folks here are still fighting the civil war. As a Yankee transplant I know this all to well. Still a beautiful place to live. Happy Thanksgiving!"}, {"response": 127, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (12:18)", "body": "Same to you and everyone else, Larry. Happy Thanksgiving."}, {"response": 128, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "Hi, Iam BJ Ondo, been riding for 20 years and have had many brands and style of bikes. I love to watch motorcycle racing and wish I was only 22 in great health so I could ride sportbikes but Iam 42 and have tendonites in both wrists and elbows so I have tried everything in motorcycling. My last bike was a Triumph ThunderBird but the bike I really loved was the 95 Triumph Speed Triple, I traded in. If you look at me you'd swear I rode a GoldWing or a Electra-Glide but I like bikes that will have fun in th twisy's. Currently Iam looking at buying a 883 Sportster and working it into a CAFE RACER, a 70's XLCR look a like or a used S2 Buell (gave up on the Beemer). Yes, Jon (ie:Triumph) thinks Iam crazy but he's the one buying a old Triumph twin, ha ha! Iam a AMA, ABATE, and MORA member, I firmly beleive in \"IT'S NOT WHAT YOU RIDE BUT THAT YOU RIDE\", that makes us all Special. Tailwinds BJ http://members.tripod.com/~britrider/index.html"}, {"response": 129, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (13:47)", "body": "You still have the Honda, BJ?"}, {"response": 130, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (13:49)", "body": "Yeah, I may be crazy, but you can't beat the style of that bike for $3500. Only a HD or certain Ducatis (many are butt ugly) match the pure style of a Bonneville--and they're all going to cost you more."}, {"response": 131, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (22:29)", "body": "Can't Argue with your statement's on the Triumph Jon, they are excellent looking machines! No, the gas tank kept leaking and the idle was a real problem. So since they wouldn't get me a different tank, I just returned it and got my money back, Iam bikeless once more, RATS. $3500 would only buy you a \"total basket case\" of a Harley-Davidson and Duc's would probably be higher also! You might be crazy but you have taste my friend. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 132, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (07:58)", "body": "Jon: Only a HD or certain Ducatis (many are butt ugly) match the pure style of a Bonneville- Two words here: Silver Star."}, {"response": 133, "author": "BONE", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (22:00)", "body": ""}, {"response": 134, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (22:30)", "body": "Hey, Bone! What was that? I can't hear you!"}, {"response": 135, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "Welcome Bone. Anyone have ol' Eirik's regular mail address? E-mail me."}, {"response": 136, "author": "Shane", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (11:49)", "body": "Hey BJ, Welcome!! Shane"}, {"response": 137, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (19:15)", "body": "Still just a manual bike rider but I did go down to San Diego last week and see a BUNCH of old Harley's cruising Mission Beach area. Sadly enough, it all it's reality, I thought of my virtual springers!"}, {"response": 138, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "Hey how are you?"}, {"response": 139, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (19:18)", "body": "I'm groovy. New job, greatly rested and looking forward to a mini vacation in Sedona this weekend!"}, {"response": 140, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "What new job?????? This is a surprise. Wow! In California?"}, {"response": 141, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "Not in California, that was just a little sun, sand, warm weather excursion! New job is: self-contained ED (emotionally disturbed) teacher at Knight Academy. Same school as before, new classroom, new students BIG learning curve!"}, {"response": 142, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "Sounds tough. I'm sure you'll be good at it."}, {"response": 143, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (20:32)", "body": "Jon, you've touched on the number one key to effective classroom management -- confidence! And yes, I think I'll be good at it too."}, {"response": 144, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (23:35)", "body": "What's the difference between this job and the other? You're narrowing in on emotionally disturbed children? Sounds like it will be pretty trying and stressfull, but probably rewarding as well."}, {"response": 145, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (19:20)", "body": "These kids have been determined \"too severe\" to be in a regular envioronment. They have been deemed \"a danger to themselves and others.\" Most of them have been severely physically, mentally, emotionally and sexually abused and have taken all the baggage with them (at a VERY young age). They have VERY limited, if any, appropriate social abilities and it shows! But they are all neat individuals really searching for a chance (although that desire may be buried down deep)"}, {"response": 146, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (01:37)", "body": "WOW! I'm impressed. It's great that we've got folks like you who are willing to take on a challenge like this."}, {"response": 147, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (11:10)", "body": "and folks like me to remind you to wear a helmet! JUST KIDDING JON!!! *smile* Have a really happy holiday, Jon if I don't get the chance to tell you again!"}, {"response": 148, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (12:31)", "body": "and folks like me to remind you to wear a helmet! I thought Jon said he always practiced safe sex? hehe Turtle in a shell"}, {"response": 149, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (19:34)", "body": "Oooooh Brad, LOL. You mean in a state like Colorado it's legal to NOT practice... *GRiNs* Stacey, I definately admire what you're doing. It takes a heck of a lot of patience to handle all those kids..which I'm not sure I could do. Sounds very rewarding (which it'd have to be), because I know you and most teachers are smart enough to make better money elsewhere. So you're doing this because you want to and that's cool."}, {"response": 150, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "Thanks Kevin. Always nice to be appreciated!"}, {"response": 151, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (19:56)", "body": "Kevin: You mean in a state like Colorado it's legal to NOT practice... *GRiNs* Who knows, they might soon start the Junior Anti-Sex League... 1984 was 13 years ago, but 1984 is still a possibility!"}, {"response": 152, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (02:08)", "body": "Uh, yeah Brad. Merry Christmas, Stacey. Are you going home? My parents were supposed to come up but they didn't. I may go home."}, {"response": 153, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (15:12)", "body": "Better go to Texas before your snowed in there Jon. Merry Christmas to all."}, {"response": 154, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (15:17)", "body": "Hee. Actually, Kevin, it hasn't snowed in two weeks and it's melting everywhere. Amazing. Still snow around, no doubt, but lots of places are basically snow free (on the south facing hillsides)."}, {"response": 155, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (15:17)", "body": "But if I do go home I'm going to go riding with my old riding buddies--I'm sure he'll find a bike to loan me."}, {"response": 156, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (10:25)", "body": "Hey, does anyone know what happen to Tony??"}, {"response": 157, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "Tony Pan?"}, {"response": 158, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "Tony Scatton. Hmm. No, I wonder what happened."}, {"response": 159, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:43)", "body": "I have mailed him a couple of times. Last I heard he was very busy with his shop, but still very much alive and well! ;-) Tony the Scat!"}, {"response": 160, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:53)", "body": "Yeah Jon, with your luck though, the day you want to leave it'll dump over a foot of snow. *GRiNs* If you make it to Texas, I'll bet your buddy finds something to ride. At least you got the little 4WD in case it does snow."}, {"response": 161, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:58)", "body": "That's right, but if it was like the \"Great Storm of '97\" where even the snowplows were getting stuck, I'd have to stay. A foot ain't no biggie, though."}, {"response": 162, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (16:38)", "body": "So are you going to Texas? Does this Spring site load as slowly for me as everyone else? I'm on a LAN at work and most things download in a matter of a few seconds, but this site loads no faster on the LAN than it does at home with my 56k modem."}, {"response": 163, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (19:18)", "body": "Yeah, for three days, and yes, it does run slowly. I think Terry's running off of ISDN from his house, but that's just a guess."}, {"response": 164, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (11:35)", "body": "It's gotten slightly slower for me just recently, and I run 14400bps. Jon did you know there's a site for great roads of Texas?"}, {"response": 165, "author": "Marlboro", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "Intro - I feel A lot more at ease around a camp fire than a computer but i,ve injoyed the site so far.I ride a 72 BSA Lighting chop here in Wi , no snow yet still on the Road."}, {"response": 166, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (09:55)", "body": "To all the great people involved here Have a Merry Christmas!"}, {"response": 167, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (11:08)", "body": "Welcome Pat, man dude that's pretty hardcore a good old Limey chop! It been pretty brisk with light snow on and off here for a few days on the plains of southern Colorado. Iam picking up a 98 CB750 Nighthawk in Jan., had NO RIDE for most of 97 and it plainly \"sucked\". Again welcome to the group, nice diverse folks here that just plain love to talk bikes. Happy Holidays BJ Ondo"}, {"response": 168, "author": "Ed", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "Hey Pat, welcome. Haven't seen a chopped Brit for a while...long long ago in a galaxy, etc. etc. I built a chopper out of a '68 Bonneville basket case. That is all behind me...at the moment, riding an '81 HD shovelhead that started life as an FLT, and a Honda Gold Wing ('82) that I stole this last summer. I also ride long as the roads aren't icy, year 'round, but I think it is probably easier to do here in the Tidewater area of VA than it is up in your part of the world. Hope to share a fire with you ometime down the road...ride long, ride safe! Ed Hamblin (Blaster Ed)"}, {"response": 169, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (21:37)", "body": "Pat, Welcome to the site from a fellow Wisconsinite (near Eagle River). I haven't ridden since the first week in November. Good to hear that you have a classic Limey scooter!! One does not run across BSA's very often. Hoop"}, {"response": 170, "author": "Shane", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (10:31)", "body": "Welcome Pat...."}, {"response": 171, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (14:16)", "body": "What's the URL, Terry? 14,400? Geez. I think I can dig up a 28,800. If I can, do you want it?"}, {"response": 172, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (12:20)", "body": "The Spring conference is running off a 14.4k modem? You can get a internal 56k one for under $100 now..a 28.8k one goes for $30-40. Jon probably has a couple laying around somewhere."}, {"response": 173, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "I thought I had access to one, but it turns out I don't. Sorry. But for $30, it wouldn't be worth the cost of shipping."}, {"response": 174, "author": "Ed", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (20:18)", "body": ""}, {"response": 175, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "What was that Ed?"}, {"response": 176, "author": "Ed", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (19:46)", "body": "Jon... I am at a loss. I didn't mean to respond...guess I pushed the wrong button. I did go back and review...see where I have a blank. Call the uh-oh squad! Ed"}, {"response": 177, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (20:22)", "body": "Here's a hint I'm not sure anyone uses when browsing the threads here. When the motorcycle conference comes up..choose 'Activity within last week' instead of all. Then when it comes back up..change the '../-7' to '../-1' in the address or location field of your browser and hit . This will bring up only the conferences that have had posts submitted in the last day or 24hrs or something like that. This is great if you check in everyday. If only once a week then no need to change to -1. If every other day..make it -2 or how ever many of the last few days worth you want to see. Either way..I bookmarked it at -1 and I'm able to only see the last days postings. Make a couple of bookmarks at -1, -3, -5 to pick from depending how long it's been since you logged in. Hope this helps, SK (Happy New Year)"}, {"response": 178, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (20:24)", "body": "PS - It loads quicker the less days you view."}, {"response": 179, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (20:32)", "body": "Thanx 4 the tip! (I usually hit \"new\" anyway)"}, {"response": 180, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (09:50)", "body": "Mines marked at \"new\", unless I want to post to a topic not currently active I get all the posts within the last 24 hours or so."}, {"response": 181, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (11:05)", "body": "If you have a conference list set up, then you only see what you haven't seen before. And you can use the \"next topic\" and \"next conference\" to cruise along. Of course, regulars here also get offered shell accounts if they want to cruise along at warp speed."}, {"response": 182, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (15:54)", "body": "When I bring up the conference I only saw the All and Last Weeks Worth links. I just went further back and got it to list the New and Forgotten links too, plus I clicked the Mark All Read link and I think now I'm in business. I guess I never checked out the features here before. So I'll bookmark the URL for new now and it should be better. This site sure could use a faster modem though."}, {"response": 183, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan  8, 1998 (22:11)", "body": "Jon, did you get back to TX for any of the holiday season? And Paul told me someone had an accident... who?"}, {"response": 184, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (16:55)", "body": "Yes, I did. Had a nice, but short time. I e-mailed you a while back asking about a concert. Did you ever get it?"}, {"response": 185, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (17:52)", "body": "never got it. what concert? Who? Where? When? (Why?) a new motorcycle in your possession yet?"}, {"response": 186, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (16:42)", "body": "Who--Buddy Miles. Where--The Little Bear. When--yesterday (Thursday). Why--I bought two tickets and didn't want to waste the second. You didn't miss anything, though. Buddy Miles, for the uninitiated, was Jimi Hendrix's drummer. He is an o.k. drummer, but has crummy taste in music and played a bunch of whiney pseudo-funk, pseudo-blues stuff. Yuck. I guess it was worth the price of admission to see the guy who played with Jimi Hendrix, but the show was pretty lousy. Have you ever been to The Little Bear? I can't remember if we've talked about that. That's where I was supposed to see Bo Diddley and forgot about it."}, {"response": 187, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Jan 24, 1998 (11:03)", "body": "George \"Buddy\" Miles, of the Buddy Miles Express, was a blues man who whrote and originally performed the song \"Them Changes\". He later became part of the Band Of Gypsys, formed by Jimi Hendrix after the Jimi Hendrix Experience. The Band Of Gypsys broke up without ever releasing a studio album and is known from their live concerts, one of which was recorded on New Year's Night, 1969-70 and released as the album Band Of Gypsys . Buddy Miles later reformed the Express, and at one time performed wit Carlos Santana. Miles is a mediocre singer (and is therefore rather better than Hendrix was), but he did O.K. with the Band of Gypsys version of \"Them Changes\" (erroneously titled \"Changes\" on the album). But, for the record, when one speaks of Hendrix's drummer, one usually refers to Mitch Mitchell, who could easily keep up with, and actually at times surpass, Jimi's playing. After the Band Of Gypsys broke up, Jimi restarted the Experience with Billy Cox from the Band of Gypsys and Mitch Mitchell from the original Experience. \"Them Changes\" has also been covered by James Brown."}, {"response": 188, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Jan 24, 1998 (11:15)", "body": "Again, Whoa! The human Archive! You almost know more about Miles than I do about Hendrix! Whoa! I mentioned to Jon that it's simply amazing that some of the 70's guys physically survived, good playin or not. Miles was never the greatest drummer, he just had a momentary and tenuous connection with the best guitarist on earth at the time, and never let it go."}, {"response": 189, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Jan 26, 1998 (15:48)", "body": "yes, I've been to the Little Bear. No show, just lunch after a nice hike. Sorry I didn't touch base with you earlier, a drive up to the mountains would've been nice. Too bad the show wasn't better... *frown*"}, {"response": 190, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Jan 26, 1998 (16:07)", "body": "The snow? Did you go skiing or something? I went on Saturday and had a nice time."}, {"response": 191, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Jan 26, 1998 (16:08)", "body": "O.K., I'm embarrased now. The \"show\" wasn't better! Hee. (Pink faced grin)"}, {"response": 192, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Jan 26, 1998 (16:12)", "body": "BTW, the \"snow\" was great this weekend. Yeah, the Little Bear has some good, big name shows. Do you want me to check with you the next time a good show comes to town?"}, {"response": 193, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Jan 26, 1998 (18:20)", "body": "sounds groovy! (you sure have the white powder on your mind!)"}, {"response": 194, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Jan 27, 1998 (13:13)", "body": "Speaking o' which, what happened to \"El Nino\"? He turned out to be a big sissy--it's been a month since it snowed here."}, {"response": 195, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Jan 27, 1998 (13:40)", "body": "Well, I am enjoying skiing. I would like to have someone to enjoy it with. Half the fun is sitting around having a beer at the end of the day and saying \"yeah, and then I came around this bend doing about 110 and came *that* close to kissing a tree\". And \"oh my arse is hurting....\" :-)"}, {"response": 196, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Jan 28, 1998 (17:24)", "body": "You mean like after a good ride, right Jon? At least that's what *I* usually sound like..."}, {"response": 197, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Jan 28, 1998 (19:28)", "body": "A Top Ten of how to prepare for the ski season (and to assist non-skiers in determining whether they wish to take up the sport). 1.Visit your local butcher and pay $30 to sit in the walk-in freezer for half an hour. Afterwards, burn two $50 bills to warm up. 2.Go to the nearest hockey rink and walk across the ice 20 times in your ski boots, carrying two pair of skis, accessory bag and poles. Pretend you are looking for your car. 3.For ski boot simulation, put a pebble in your street shoes and tighten a C-clamp around your toes. 4.Buy a pair of gloves, and immediately throw one of them away. 5.Go to McDonald's and insist on paying $6.50 for a hamburger. Be sure to wait in the longest line. 6.Clip a lift ticket to the zipper of your jacket and ride a motorcycle fast enough to make the ticket lacerate your face. 7.Drive slowly for five hours - anywhere - as long as it's in a snowstorm and you are following an 18-wheeler. 8.Fill a blender with ice, leave the cover off, hit the pulse button and let the spray blast your face. 9.Dress up in as many sets of clothes as you own and then proceed to take them off, with your gloves on, because you have to go to the bathroom. 10. Repeat all of the above, every Saturday and Sunday, until ski season starts."}, {"response": 198, "author": "yves", "date": "Thu, Jan 29, 1998 (00:38)", "body": "LLLLLL.O.L"}, {"response": 199, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Jan 29, 1998 (08:36)", "body": "Really funny!"}, {"response": 200, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Jan 29, 1998 (19:07)", "body": "A poor imitation of Peter Egan."}, {"response": 201, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Jan 29, 1998 (22:28)", "body": "No, much too low brow for Pete. I read a longer article by him this week in CW about a trip through (mostly) Germany to the Dutch TT. Good read--only mentioned motorcycles a few time, the trip took precidence. I *am* going to do a tour through Europe/Germany/The Alps, etc. on a motorcycle. Perhaps, if things go well, next year for vacation."}, {"response": 202, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sun, Feb  1, 1998 (20:02)", "body": "The list was hysterical Jon! Did you fit in any time on the slopes this weekend?"}, {"response": 203, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Feb  2, 1998 (22:04)", "body": "Not this weekend. I had time, but can't afford to spend $150 every weekend. Perhaps this coming weekend. Speaking of off topic, I bought a new mountain bike. It's a Kona. It was a '96 model that was still on the showroom floor, so I got a great deal on it. It's a little small for me (probably could use a 20\", it's an 18\"), but I like it."}, {"response": 204, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Feb  2, 1998 (23:48)", "body": "Excellent! Ridden anywhere yet? I tried a couple of trails on Saturday ice fest... long painful slides... no good Sunday I gave up and hiked!"}, {"response": 205, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Feb  3, 1998 (12:30)", "body": "Hee. Yeah, exactly. I've ridden mostly on the road, with a little off road stuff. A lot of fun. Hiking is better in most situations in the winter, though a fresh snow (I've found) can be fun--you still have some traction. It sure has been a warm and relatively snow free winter. I've done more hiking in the past three months than any three months all summer."}, {"response": 206, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Feb  3, 1998 (12:32)", "body": "That's one of the great things about living where I live--lots of places to hike and ride close by. Awesome place. I keep thinking I'll move to the city, but I don't."}, {"response": 207, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Feb  3, 1998 (19:14)", "body": "if you don't have to... commute, social, family reasons... don't. I don't mind living in the city (as if!) in 10 minutes, I'm blissfully beyond civilization (and in a more civilized place)"}, {"response": 208, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Feb  4, 1998 (18:20)", "body": "Uh, you've got a point. I went from having a group of good friends back in Texas to being just \"Jon the hillbilly up in the mountains by myself\". I have zilcho social life. I do lots of stuff and stay busy (like Blues Jam night at the Little Bear on Tuesday, banjo lessions, jam night at The Buck Snort, etc.), but not alot of friends. The commute is an hour each way, but that hasn't been enough of a factor to make me move. And I'm not in civilization at all now, which is great. Just hang out in the mountains. Aaaaah."}, {"response": 209, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Feb  4, 1998 (18:21)", "body": "Have you ever been to The Buck Snort, Stacey?"}, {"response": 210, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Feb  5, 1998 (00:21)", "body": "Today is \"restaurants in Denver\" day. Tonight I went to the first really super snazzy upscale joint I'd ever been to, a place called \"Del Frisco\". You wouldn't like it, Stacey--it's one of those \"we love meat and we don't care what anyone thinks about that!\" places. Ultra snazzy, though. About $80-$100 a person to eat there, valet parking (I told the attendants to please fetch my \"Tracker Carrera\"), perfect service, etc. They had good looking waitresses who fawned over me but would probably ignore me in any other setting. :-) It was fun, and the food was good, but you know what? I get about as much or more entertainment from a $10 evening at a little divey bar in the mountains. It's fun, but not to be done every day. And considering the look on the face of the VP who took us there when I ordered desert, that won't be a problem."}, {"response": 211, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Feb  5, 1998 (13:51)", "body": "Stacey, I've sent you a couple of e-mails, but I don't think you got them. Our mail server has been doing weird things, like not delivering to certain addresses (about 1 out of 100). I wonder if it's having trouble with the Spring."}, {"response": 212, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb  5, 1998 (18:19)", "body": "I've gotten them... and responded so it looks like you're going out but things are having difficulty coming back in. *frown* the restaurant sounded interesting -- you should post it in 'restaurants' (get out and explore a little, Jon). Was it a celebratory dinner?"}, {"response": 213, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Feb  5, 1998 (21:35)", "body": "No, we had a contractor that's going to help us design the new corporate website (and is also doing some work on the interfaces for the software). He was busy in other departments so dinner was the only time we could meet. I followed my supervisor's lead in really having a good time since I wasn't paying. :-) Explore? You mean on the Spring, or around here? Either way it's probably true, although I do enjoy doing and learning new things. I'll e-mail you tomorrow from my work e-mail and see what happens."}, {"response": 214, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (00:48)", "body": "Hmm. I don't think that the folks in Austin care about restaurants in Denver, but I've got a mess of 'em I could post."}, {"response": 215, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (18:27)", "body": "heck, I post 'em all the time... they don't seem to mind. besides, I'm trying to bribe people to come visit!"}, {"response": 216, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (18:50)", "body": "How does that work? I think of lots of good reasons to come to Denver, but I'd need more prodding than that to take off across the country."}, {"response": 217, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (18:51)", "body": "I'll have to go check out that conference and see if I can find a new place to eat."}, {"response": 218, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Feb 21, 1998 (08:57)", "body": "Been checking in & out frequently, surprised there are never any submissions here. I've passed the URL along to several different riders with no responses yet! I don't mind going from place to place to discuss my favorite topic, can I be the only guy? Let's keep this going! (o:"}, {"response": 219, "author": "yves", "date": "Sat, Feb 21, 1998 (18:48)", "body": "No your not the only one, but I hate speeking to miself, to much differents opinions. :o)"}, {"response": 220, "author": "yves", "date": "Sat, Feb 21, 1998 (18:52)", "body": "P.S. It's also very quiet in most conferences that interest me."}, {"response": 221, "author": "MickStim", "date": "Sun, Feb 22, 1998 (07:22)", "body": "Well I'll be b******d, it works ! Just though I'd check it out in case the worst happens to XRoads. Hi each. Mike Stimson"}, {"response": 222, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Feb 23, 1998 (09:48)", "body": "Hey Mike. We have to convince Eirik to get in on this. I realize the interface can be daunting at times but better to was up on shore than go under. I'm going to see if maybe we can adjust things to have a similar topic list as XR, instead of plowing through 1000 things. Glad to see some posts!"}, {"response": 223, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Feb 24, 1998 (19:00)", "body": "Hey Stacey, how are things going in your life? How's the new job? I'm looking for work myself. Talking to a company based out of Hong Kong with an office in Denver. That would be cool (as long as the communist government doesn't nationalize the company or something)."}, {"response": 224, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Feb 24, 1998 (19:01)", "body": "I'm posting this here because I've given up on trying to E-mail Stacey, in case someone wonders."}, {"response": 225, "author": "yves", "date": "Tue, Feb 24, 1998 (23:43)", "body": "Yes I was wondering. And I realised that it`s not my bizness if your just a bit off topic :o))))"}, {"response": 226, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Fri, Feb 27, 1998 (14:37)", "body": "Hi y'all! I'll join in... I'm Gena. I live north of Boston and currently ride a '93 ZX6. I bought it last summer after succumbing to a 20 year urge. My first bike was a 73 (i think) Yamaha 250. I must say, they have changed in 20 years! I love my ZX6, but once I have a couple more seasons under my belt, I'll look at spanky new models. Ride safe..."}, {"response": 227, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Feb 27, 1998 (17:45)", "body": "Shoot, the ZX6 is nice. I ride an old ZX-600R--a much less sportingly competent machine, and it's still all I can handle."}, {"response": 228, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Sat, Feb 28, 1998 (00:13)", "body": "Mine's the ZX600E. It's enough for now. My best friend rides a Honda F3 and she comments on the 'quickness' of my non-race equipped bike. I don't know what I'll graduate to... may end up staying with Kawasaki. I doubt that I'll go over 900cc... may just stick to the 6's."}, {"response": 229, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Feb 28, 1998 (12:28)", "body": "Famous last words eh, folks? (o; Welcome Gena; check out http://www.sportriders.com they'd love to see you sign on, and are good folks."}, {"response": 230, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb 28, 1998 (13:54)", "body": "Frank, how about plugging our conference on Sports Riders?"}, {"response": 231, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Mar  2, 1998 (09:33)", "body": "Well I did a while back. Thing is they have a list (Biketalk) that lets the \"club\" communicate by e-mail. I'll give it a second shot."}, {"response": 232, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Mar  2, 1998 (10:47)", "body": "Hey Jon! I guess this is our new forum... I have received and replied to all your emails, not sure why you aren't getting them. All is well here. Busy but with the lower country slowly thawing, I've been able to get a bit of outside fun in!"}, {"response": 233, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (15:52)", "body": "Hee. Yeah, something must be wrong with your SMTP server. Anyway, I've done some bicycling and hiking too. It's been chilly the last few days, though, but all in all a mild winter. Can't wait for summer, though. So much biking, motorcycling, off roading, fishing, hiking, camping, etc. to be done."}, {"response": 234, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (16:11)", "body": "I'd say stick with the 600s. I like 'em myself--light, powerful and loads of fun. I really enjoy my beat up old ZX-600R. If I change bikes, it won't be to a larger displacement or because I feel it doesn't have enough power."}, {"response": 235, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (16:44)", "body": "hey watch it! MY (???) SMTP server?!?!? How DARE you? *giggle* Everyone else seems to be receiving my messages just fine! *smile* This weekend is snowshoeing is Estes Park (as it stands now)"}, {"response": 236, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Mar  5, 1998 (13:55)", "body": "What's the snow like there? We've got nothing but ice around where I live. As soon as it snows again, though, I'm going cross country. Yeah, I don't know why I can't get your e-mails."}, {"response": 237, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Mar  5, 1998 (18:17)", "body": "snow is white and fluffy... as it should be! They got about 6 inches this week so it ought to be prime. Stay away from avalanches!"}, {"response": 238, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Mar 12, 1998 (23:54)", "body": "Well, I'm looking for work. Interviewed with Software AG today and have an interview with ICG tomorrow (Friday) morning. It looks like losing this job may be the best thing that's ever happened to me."}, {"response": 239, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Fri, Mar 13, 1998 (07:33)", "body": "Best of luck Sheb"}, {"response": 240, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Fri, Mar 13, 1998 (07:33)", "body": "any chance of negotiating acompany bike? :)"}, {"response": 241, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Mar 13, 1998 (10:54)", "body": "Company Bike?! I wish, I'd be a corporate tie-wearing a-kisser in no time! BTW, anyone seen the Virgin Atlantic \"Limo-bike\" thing? A pro picks you up on a BMW, dresses you for the conditions prevailing(!) and speeds you to your metro destination, cell-phone provided if necessary, etc. Whaddaya think?"}, {"response": 242, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Fri, Mar 13, 1998 (13:19)", "body": "We have used them for getting people to the airport in a hurry - works well! I nearly got my Tiger as a company bike, but just befor it was completely sorted we had a change in Financial director from one who was bike friendly to one who was seriously anti bikes. :( I got told take a Renault Clio or the money but you cannot have a bike - a clio is no use to me at all so I took the money! :) Sheb"}, {"response": 243, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Mar 13, 1998 (19:05)", "body": "good luck with the job hunt Jon!!!"}, {"response": 244, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 13, 1998 (19:13)", "body": "Really, good luck Jon!"}, {"response": 245, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Mar 15, 1998 (13:29)", "body": "Thanks, folks. No, but once I was on the way to a job interview on my Nighthawk with my pin striped, double breasted suit and wingtips and a guy pulls up next to me in a big work truck and asks \"is that a company ride?\" Hee. I wish!"}, {"response": 246, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Mar 16, 1998 (10:48)", "body": "Not in our Lifetime, I guess, eh?"}, {"response": 247, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Mar 18, 1998 (18:23)", "body": "Hey Jon were you dumped on today too??? Six inches so far, 10 more expected before dawn. *frown* and I thought Spring had arrived!"}, {"response": 248, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (00:52)", "body": "Exactly! Sprign *has* arrived, and from what I understand, \"when it's Spring time in Alaska I'll be 6 feet below\" or something like that. Pretty much a typical Colorado spring, from what I've heard, but you've been here longer than I. I didn't make it home this evening--I'm staying with some friends in Lakewood. I'm happy, though, as I should be able to do some cross country skiing--something I haven't done since before Christmas. I start my new job on Thursday. It should be interesting commute."}, {"response": 249, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (00:53)", "body": "An interesting commute today. With the weather."}, {"response": 250, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (10:20)", "body": "Should be no problem in the Tracker...."}, {"response": 251, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (10:45)", "body": "first day at the new job: how'd it go??? (and what/where is it?) lookit me! All dug out from under the 14 inches in our front yard (and driveway) and at work!"}, {"response": 252, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (22:24)", "body": "2.5 feet here. First day was fantastic. I'm off to a great start, my boss thinks I'm a genius, and I'm loving my work."}, {"response": 253, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (22:30)", "body": "where are you working and how did you pull the wool over your bosses eyes in just one day?!?! *giggle* 2.5 feet... I guess that Tracker is mighty useful!"}, {"response": 254, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (22:32)", "body": "Oh yeah, I didn't make it home on Wednesday. I tried to get up 285 but traffic was a dead stop. I ended up staying in Lakewood with some friends."}, {"response": 255, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (22:33)", "body": "No, the boss is just naturally observant. Hey, a fact's a fact."}, {"response": 256, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (22:35)", "body": "Oh, it's ICG, off of I-25 at Dry Creek Rd. Do you know who ICG is?"}, {"response": 257, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (22:51)", "body": "No, but I know where it is. Right by Inverness, right?"}, {"response": 258, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Mar 21, 1998 (02:22)", "body": "Right--a big new building. They're a multi-million dollar communications company that has the market cornered in a couple of areas (like ship-to-shore sattelite communications) and is competing with the big boys (and doing a good job) in other areas like telecom, data, sattelites, etc. For example they own and operate several communications sattelites that transfer everything from phone traffic to TV shows."}, {"response": 259, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Mar 23, 1998 (18:23)", "body": "building tilting forward (toward I 25) and lotsa glass? (lemme know if there are any good restaurants down there. Hankering for a happy hour soon)"}, {"response": 260, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Mar 23, 1998 (18:49)", "body": "jon. the mail keeps getting returned on jon_lind@icgcomm.com suggestions?"}, {"response": 261, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Mar 24, 1998 (23:45)", "body": "Try it again. I checked with the mail admin today and she had it set wrong. It should work now. Atleast you're getting some kind of response--that's promising! Hmm. Stanford's is pretty good for happy hour--they have a great feta cheese pizza for $2, but drinks are full price. We need to meet somewhere sometime."}, {"response": 262, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Mar 24, 1998 (23:46)", "body": "Uh, yes, that's the building. Cool building, but boooring inside. The most impressive part is the fact that they imported marble from Europe for the entrance and lobby. It's crazy what these corporations will spend money on."}, {"response": 263, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Mar 25, 1998 (07:48)", "body": "$2 cheese pizza?! How big is it? Where is this? (o;"}, {"response": 264, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Wed, Mar 25, 1998 (07:49)", "body": "WAY OFF SUBJECT BUT - spending money on crazy things goeas back a long time - allegedly when they built stonehenge they brought some of the stone across the sea from Ireland ! :)"}, {"response": 265, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Mar 25, 1998 (16:44)", "body": "Where's Stanford's? DTC?"}, {"response": 266, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Mar 26, 1998 (22:19)", "body": "Yeah, it's in the Tech Center off of Arapahoe and Yosemite. It's a good size pizza for $2--enough to more than fill me up. It's their happy hour--instead of cheap drinks they have cheap food (and good food, at that) between 5:00 and 6:00. Smart thinking, because if you have more than one drink, you've spent more than if you'd gone somewhere else and gotten cheap drinks with full priced food. And actually it's not cheese, but feta and Italian Sausage. But since I'm a vegetarian for Lent, I ask them to leave off the sausage. Eating vegetarian is hard ! A vegetarian friend, when I told her what I was doing, said \"how do you feel?\" and I answered \"like having a big old cheeseburger\". ;-)"}, {"response": 267, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Mar 26, 1998 (22:19)", "body": "Have you tried to e-mail me Stacey, since the \"so\" message?"}, {"response": 268, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Mar 27, 1998 (04:53)", "body": "No, I've been home (just Thursday) with some yucko stomach thing and so I haven't checked the box at school. Sounds like I can get through now though! Surprising that cutting out meat hasn't made you feel better (more energy). Are you getting enough calories/protien/iron? More beans and more cheese will certainly help! Of course I went back to fish after I gave up meat because 1) I like fish and 2) I needed the nutrients. Lemme know how it goes!"}, {"response": 269, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Mar 31, 1998 (22:48)", "body": "Lots of calories and protein (I've more than made up for that with various cheeses), but I don't know about iron. A big old steak could fix that up just fine. 1) I don't like fish, which is part of why I left them in my diet. Sure, a good old plate of fried catfish (can you say \"deep fat\"?) can't be beat, and I like some seafood, but I'm not big on fish."}, {"response": 270, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Mar 31, 1998 (22:51)", "body": "I have no scientific reason to believe that not eating meat will make you more energetic. It works fine for wolves, lions, cheetahs, etc.--they don't seem to lack energy. ;-) Eating a high-fat diet and sitting around being mostly inactive, however, will make you un-energetic."}, {"response": 271, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Apr  6, 1998 (16:07)", "body": "MAN! Just loading up this topic and scrolling down to a \"submoit' form took all weekend. Seems the season here is underway, yesterday I took a cold 10 minute ride to the Dairy, saw a few neat homebuilt cafe jobs, one a homebuilt Guzzi with sublime open megaphones. NASCAR has nothing on an open Guzzi sound! Nice 748. A few cruzers. Unfortunately I missed the get-together at MotoMarket in Acton, MA. From the photos it looked like a great place for a Sunday hang. Tell us, Gwen?"}, {"response": 272, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Apr  6, 1998 (18:23)", "body": "Frank, I'm suppsosing that is Dairy as in cow milking establishment but could it be \"home of the white trash ice cream\" (and one of my favorite places) DAIRY QUEEN?!?!?! On your big ride Jon?"}, {"response": 273, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Apr  7, 1998 (08:26)", "body": "1st, apology to Gena, I mixed up the name! Next, Marcus Dairy is in fact a big dairy in Danbury CT, close to my house. The production manager let his love for bikes get completely out of control, and Sunday gatherings have progressed from little groups as I described above to giant 4-times-a-summer bike-fests. There are always a few rides outside on Sundays however. The diner at the gate is one of the best-kept truck-stops in the northeast, and the coffee & ice-cream are top-notch."}, {"response": 274, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Apr  8, 1998 (22:17)", "body": "\"On your big ride\"? Whuzzat mean?"}, {"response": 275, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr  9, 1998 (10:07)", "body": "weren't you going down to Texas soon?"}, {"response": 276, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr  9, 1998 (11:19)", "body": "Anyone coming to Texas, let me know and we'll be sure and party down."}, {"response": 277, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Apr  9, 1998 (13:17)", "body": "Hee. No, I didn't get down to Austin. And the \"Big Ride\" had to be cancelled because I lost my job at Intergram. Instead I took a couple of days off to drive to Dallas and see the Nascar race. \"You might be a redneck if...\", but I don't care. ;-)"}, {"response": 278, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Thu, Apr  9, 1998 (16:32)", "body": "Jon, I've tried to email you by clicking on the blue \"triumph\" link here and it gets returned. I've tried both the hcds.net and diac.com and neither are working. Did you get out to San Angelo? (Your parents live there don't they?)"}, {"response": 279, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Apr 10, 1998 (00:11)", "body": "Nope, didn't get back to Angelo. My address (and this should work--though our mail server was down for a while) is jonlind@diac.com"}, {"response": 280, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Apr 16, 1998 (15:31)", "body": "Hey, Stacey, are you still there? Did you not come back from Georgia? Disappear off the face of the earth? E-mail to me quit working again?"}, {"response": 281, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Apr 20, 1998 (01:20)", "body": "e mail still working.. busy week! sorry happyhour next week???"}, {"response": 282, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Apr 20, 1998 (22:35)", "body": "Sounds good. Hee, you *still* haven't told me what was in Georgia, but I guess it's none of my business. :-) Just say when--any day is good for me."}, {"response": 283, "author": "OnkelUdo", "date": "Tue, May  5, 1998 (09:21)", "body": "Hey guys, Long time to...uh...read(?). I just got the 'net at work and spent the last week finding you. I have a friend coming in from Europe on the April 24 and we are going on the road June 1-10 (bought a GS850GL which I am loaning him). I'm thinking Colorado...any suggestions? onkel udo"}, {"response": 284, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, May  5, 1998 (10:21)", "body": "looks like you don't need too many suggestions... you picked a great state! Jon and I both live here, but he's the one to ask about motorbike trips... I'm strictly manpowered!"}, {"response": 285, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, May  5, 1998 (10:39)", "body": "Onkel Udo!? I forget the name exactly, not Mike K.?? I e-mailed to the above and it bounced. Try http://www.fp-webs.com:8080/~Xroads , or e-mail me at FnGG@aol.com if you have trouble."}, {"response": 286, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (16:57)", "body": "I guess, in the summer, people ride instead of just talking about it"}, {"response": 287, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Tue, Feb  5, 2002 (17:44)", "body": "Has anyone heard from Jon Lind recently? How can I contact him?"}, {"response": 288, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Feb  5, 2002 (18:47)", "body": "He has not posted in a few years as far as I know (I usually keep up to date on stuff like that. Terry can tell you his last login address, most likely."}, {"response": 289, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Tue, Feb  5, 2002 (19:20)", "body": "Thanks! I hope it's current; but I doubt it..."}, {"response": 290, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb  6, 2002 (10:14)", "body": "He never entered a valid email address when he signed up. motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 13, "subject": "staying safe", "response_count": 247, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Oct 19, 1997 (01:48)", "body": "Wear lot's of leather and boots. Ride within the limits of your bike and always..always..expect a cager to do the unexpected."}, {"response": 2, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Oct 19, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "Pay attention."}, {"response": 3, "author": "yves", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (02:08)", "body": "Entertain a small positive fear."}, {"response": 4, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (09:08)", "body": "Very true, Yves. The second I quite being afraid of motorcycling is the second that it ceases to be fun and ceases to be safe. Also, Motorcyclist' cover story this month is \"How to ride faster, smarter, safer\" (complete with a guy doing a wheelie on a GXS-R--go figure). It's got some good stuff--if only you could remember all these techniques. Next spring I'm going to take another Experienced Riders Course with the Motorcycle Safety Foundation. I find these classes very helpful."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (09:51)", "body": "Expect all other road users to be total Idiots, occasionaly you will be pleasantly surprised, Ride within your limits (and those of your bike) Beware wet leaves, drain covers, white lines and (whats the polite way of putting this?) the stuff the animals leave behind, all of which have casued me to fall off in the past"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (10:26)", "body": "Beware liquids in the road, it's not always water, as I found out once pulling out of my office in Jamaica on the bicycle; I went right into an oil slick and fell. Fortunately the approaching traffic was far enough away for me to be upright and on the side of the road when they came. I always wonder what would have happened if I were on a motorbike."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (10:33)", "body": "Only time I high-sided was on oil on an entrance ramp. Very Surprised. The fear factor is one I've had since day one and I think evrything kind of follows nicely afterwards, keeping me safe. I invariably feel guilty along with a rush after a roadrace skirmish. I'd say I run 80-85% 95% of my time. And I see more lunatics on bikes every season."}, {"response": 8, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (10:46)", "body": "Yeah, I've had a high side myself--hit a patch of oil in the rain. Totally my fault because the intersection was one that takes about 4 minutes for the light to change so cars just sit there and drip oil. I was in a hurry to get home and out of the rain--well, you can figure out the rest. A little patience don't hurt."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (12:34)", "body": "Taught me real good. Had just slowed because I was being eyeballed by a sheriff's car, leaned to exit and BAM saw the bike going under me in the opposite direction; Quaker State can dribbling oil onto the edge of the road. Gravel's even scarier because it's everywhere here. Maybe signs that say \"Do ya feel lucky, punk?\" might help?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "Shane", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (15:35)", "body": "A nice healthy combo of all of the above, ESPECIALLY the first two on Shebees list, gotta watch the morons, cause they ain't watchin for you.... Shane"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (16:10)", "body": "Hear Hear! And the morons include truck drivers, car drivers, bikers, cyclists, pedestrians, in short: EVERYBODY! The drivers here in Quer\ufffdtaro are as mad as those in Jamaica!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Oct 21, 1997 (11:53)", "body": "The cyclists are watching you. They're terrified you'll run 'em off the road either physically or with all that noise!!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Oct 21, 1997 (12:45)", "body": "Nah, I don't think bicyclists have much to fear from a motorcycle cuz we motorcyclists are really paranoid about hitting anything. A car could hit a bicyclist with only a minor scratch. If you were to hit a bicyclist on a motorcycle, it would be bad news for each of you. I have an uncle who used to ride his bicycle 100 miles per day but he got into three accidents. Made a terrible mess of his back--it's dangerous out there, no matter what you ride."}, {"response": 14, "author": "jammie", "date": "Tue, Oct 21, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "Always wear boot, long pants, long sleeves, full-face helmet, and gloves. It puts you in a mind-set that you can get hurt out there. There are lots of sensible clothes that can protect you and you don't need any fancy \"motorcycle\" clothing. Needless to say, do your bike pre-checks and keep that bike in a safe condition."}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (02:23)", "body": "What about safe cornering? Any recommendations here?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (02:33)", "body": "Good question. Mostly the issue of cornering safely is speed (I think most single bike accidents occur in a corner and mostly cuz the person was going to fast), but there is (as in all aspects of motorcycling) the issue of attention. Slow down for the corner, keep your head/eyes pointed through the corner to the exit of the turn, then gradually accelerate. One good thing to learn is how to brake in a corner comfortably and safely. Some people believe you're not supposed to ever put on your brakes while leaned over, but learning to do so calmly and in a smooth manner is a great skill."}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (02:38)", "body": "What about techniques of landing if the unthinkable happens, and your bike drops in a corner? Can you do things to prepare yourself and land more safely. I once saw a film clip of Evel Knieval landing after a crash and he just rolled and rolled till he popped up unscathed."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (05:26)", "body": "Landing techniques, hmm... Terry you are right, try to roll (this also applies to falling down stairs :)) Get away from the bike! Kick it away from you, jump off it, what ever it takes, but dont get stuck under it! Sliding down the road on your own will give you gravel rash at a minimum, sliding down the road with the bike on top of you is worse! You also have very hot bits on the bike, a friend came off with only a little grazing, but a nasty 3rd degree burn on her leg, that needed skin grafts, from the exhaust where she was trapped under it A different friend also suggests, if an impact with another vehicle is unavoidable, at the point where it all goes into slow motion aim for the cleanest, least rusty bit of the car, you dont want tetanus to add to your troubles!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (08:37)", "body": "Whew! Landing? If you can think fast enough, protect your hands, close to your body, and try to stay almost in a ball. As Shebee says getting away from the moving mass of metal is priority one. When I got off, I bounced, over the bike, on my back, then went into the balled-up position. Luck helps more'n anything!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (12:45)", "body": "You want to low side. If you lose traction in a corner and the bike starts to slide out, leave the brakes locked. If you let off the brakes you'll regain traction and instead of a simple slide out, the bike will flip up and over, likely making you airborne and possibly landing on top of you. That's called a \"high side\". Trust me, I know."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "Well I hi-sided, believe me. Having time to think was out of the question. I feel most go down due to mireading a corner and proper cornering practices of countersteering (Iknow, an old saw). As to going down alone, I don't know; I've seen 3 crashes when riding in small groups, due to the rider not thinking of riding as such but more showing their stuff, and forgetting foolishly about something simple. Trail-braking takes practice at really moderate speed (55) to get the feel for it. Practice includes kno ing the bike you're on, as i find going from a longer wheelbase ride to say, a 750, makes me concentrate on the quickness of handling different lean available."}, {"response": 22, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (13:50)", "body": "ouch. Thanks Jim for the helmet plug. As ridiculous as everyone seems to think they are, and those few who rant about \"freedom to bash their brains in\" helmets are a pretty good idea. Friend of mine was hit by a moving van (running top speed through a red light) and her helmet saved her life. She didn't come out unscathed, though. She was in a coma for 3 weeks and spent a while in rehab. Now, two years later, she is back to her old job -- mechanical engineer and gingerly getting back on the bike again. I strap one on to ride 3 blocks... and remember her story everytime."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (14:24)", "body": "I wrote the words \"Anti-Tiger Device\" on the back of my helmet in Jamaica. Tiger was one of the better dance-hall artists in Jamaica; not much on meaning, but he definitely had style. He generally rode without a helmet, I think he had a CBR600 or a Ninja 600. Anyway, he crashed into a limousine and sustained brain damage. He can function (after long rehab, more than a year), but he can't perform well on stage any more."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (14:43)", "body": "I owe my life, such as it is, to Bell Helmets. I see other brands I'm attracted to for one or another reasons, but I'll give my money to Bell, figure I owe it to 'em! Bought Bell bike helmets for the kids too. Only time I get on without one is to move the bike a short distance, even then I feel guilty."}, {"response": 25, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (21:09)", "body": "and those few who rant about \"freedom to bash their brains in\" helmets are a pretty good idea Well, I rant about the freedom to bash your brains in too, but I'll always wear one. I've been around the block sans helmet on a standard style bike--I can see the attraction. And as a civil libertarian I think that it's a personal choice to decide, but you won't see me without one."}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (21:14)", "body": "They just overturned the bicycle and motorcycle helmet laws in Austin. Except for kids under a certain age."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (09:42)", "body": "I always wear a helmet when I ride a motorcycle (unless I'm offered a lift on the pillion and don't have my helmet), but I never wear a helmet on the bicycle. I don't own a bicycle helmet, and I've never seen a bicycle helmet with a proper brim, which I consider to be a very important safety feature, as it keeps the glare out of my eyes. My full-face helmet has the same problem, but I get around that by leaving the visor up to reflect the sun from my eyes, letting my glasses take the brunt of the wind. I've seen an open-face motorcycle helmet with a fixed brim here in Quer\ufffdtaro for N$300.00 (300 new pesos). If I find that I can afford it, I'll either buy it for prospective pillion passengers or wear it myself and let the passenger wear my current helmet (I bought goggles before I bought my full-face helmet)."}, {"response": 28, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (11:12)", "body": "Frank (the Bell patriot), Bell has also taken me through 2 pretty nasty bifs. A barbed wire fence and I got into a struggle a few years ago after bombing down a tricky singletrack. Thanks to Bell and Vitamin E there are few reminders of the five strands of wire that slid (uncomfortably) over my head, neck, right shoulder, side and thigh. The other big one was out at the Rifle Range outside of Austin. A perfect endo on \"scary downhill\" plopped me perfectly on my head -- denng the styrofoam, cracking the sh ll but leaving my head just a little foggy."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (12:12)", "body": "Wow! Glad you made it through both mishaps. I've a barb-wire story too but it's not bike related (o;}. Funny thing is how I rode my bicycle for years & years without a helmet and never had problems, now most everyone wears a lid. Twice I've tried motorcycling without a helmet for a few miles and really didn't care for it, the whole \"in the wind\" deal. I see guys in Connecticut all the time flying sportbikes down the interstate, helmetless, can't figure out how they stand it much less why."}, {"response": 30, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (12:22)", "body": "Bell makes bicycle helmets? I didn't know that."}, {"response": 31, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (12:24)", "body": "Yeah, Frank, it would be miserable on a sportbike sans helmet because the windshield is designed to force the air in your face. No doubt that these bikes were designed to be ridden with helmets."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Oct 24, 1997 (13:55)", "body": "You all need to re-think your helmetless short, close to home jaunts on the bike... Just like the automobile, most horrific crashes on motorcycles happen within a 10 mile radius of the owners home, at speeds under 30 MPH.... What is the phenomenon?? Over confidence!! When tooling around close to home you are generally familiar with your surroundings and \"know\" where you are going..... This automatically causes your brain and senses (or lack of em LOL) to become relaxed and the next thing you know your goi g for a spill, or getting plowed by the guy up the street because \"He didn't see you\" and you weren't watching for him.... One must NEVER let there attention lapse due to \"Comfort with surroundings\", It'll kill ya.... Oh, and I enjoy the OPTION of not wearing my helmet pretty regularly, and I have no desire to Bash in My Head, Pick Gravel outta my Arms and Legs, Suffer 3rd Degree burns..... I just like to think that the decisions I make are MINE, And that I am responsible enough to live with the consequences of those decisions.... Shane"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Oct 24, 1997 (14:12)", "body": "I agree Shane. As I said, a helmetless ride for me is usually a parking-spot move, where I don't want to push the bike. I do remember that statistic in the car and on the bike. Going around the \"block\" here is taking your life in your hands since it's all blind bends and hill, and the drivers are pretty wild despite the \"children playing\" and \"school bus stop\" signs. A perfect setup for an accident."}, {"response": 34, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Oct 24, 1997 (15:57)", "body": "Shane, I respect everyones' decision to \"bash their head in\" but dammit, if youre the overconfident biker that slides across the lane into my car, I sure as hell don't want your gray (now red) matter all over my windshield and my conscience especially when it was your (hypothetical situation) own damn fault! I'm all for allowing people to kill themselves but just don't take someone else (emotionally or physically) with them! A MTB runnng through sketchy terrain needs a helmet as much, or more, than the ne t guy but if he bites it, it's on no one else's shoulder, windshield or conscience. It's just a shame."}, {"response": 35, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Oct 25, 1997 (01:50)", "body": "I see it a little differently. First of all you don't have a wreck and say \"if he'd had a helmet he would have been fine\". There are way too many variables involved and it just can't be determinted. Are you safer with a helmet? Undoubtedly. But you're also safer if you stay home. And statistically you're much more likely to seriously injure another automobile passenger than a biker. Should we force helmets in all cars? Should you just stay home?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "yves", "date": "Sat, Oct 25, 1997 (04:01)", "body": "Home? Noooo. A plane could lose a motor that fall on your house..Better wear a helmet there too :o) Yves"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Oct 25, 1997 (09:33)", "body": "There ya go Stacey, feedin' the bears....(o;"}, {"response": 38, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Oct 25, 1997 (12:56)", "body": "LOL! Hee. That's funny. You know something? It's actually illegal to wear a helmet in a car. Something about obstructing your sense of sight and hearing...."}, {"response": 39, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Oct 25, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "Speaking o' Bears and Snow, to quote Pooh: \"I'm feeling a bit more snowy behind the ears than ever before.\""}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Oct 25, 1997 (21:30)", "body": "What famous ex-Texas governer rides a Harley Davidson?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Oct 25, 1997 (22:20)", "body": "Ooops. Sorry, this got posted in the wrong place. If you know the answer, go to the next topic after this one and answer there."}, {"response": 42, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Oct 25, 1997 (23:30)", "body": "Stacey, take a look at the number of motorcycle fatalities where the motorcyclist is at fault... Oh, and your windshield would wash, and my choices should be no excuse for someones (even mine) lousy driving.... Shane"}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct 27, 1997 (09:54)", "body": "I wonder if we're going to have to mount and expedition to dig Stacey out of the snow today?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 27, 1997 (11:04)", "body": "Ann Richards... I'm too lazy to go to the next conference. Feeding the bears, eh? I get into these kind of discussions. And about forcing people to wear helmets in cars (beyond the fact that these people are 'usually' protected by four sides and a roof) we do make them wear seatbelts. Alright guys, enough for me. I better get off the computer before a power surge blasts through my CPU and sends fatal amounts of electricity through my fingertips and cooks me from the inside! :)"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Oct 27, 1997 (11:09)", "body": "American car companies stopped making convertibles in the Seventies because they thought that they would be outlawed for being unsafe (The power of Nader and NHTSA; fortunately curbed now.)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct 27, 1997 (11:54)", "body": "Really stacey, then we'd be talking about you in the cooking conference. Snowgirl!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 27, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "No one can get a word in edgewise in that conference, so talk away!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (03:08)", "body": "O.K., this is off topic, but... Two things. For those keeping up with the saga of my vehicle, I've bought a brand new \"Chevy Tracker\" (they've canned the GEO badge, which is fine by me--it's still made by Suzuki). Here's a pic (this is the color--it's actually very close to British Racing Green--the ultimate auto color): Notice that XRoads was down for a day or two--we can expect intermittent reliability as I have no control over the administration and upkeep of the server."}, {"response": 49, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (08:10)", "body": "What's XRoads?"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (08:51)", "body": "XRoads = Motorcycle CrossRoads WAS the best conference board for mature motorcyclists of all types, very similar to this board here. Brought together bikers from all over the planet to discuss different aspects of their favoritye sport/pastime. Father: Jon Lind"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (10:01)", "body": "Frank: \"XRoads = Motorcycle CrossRoads WAS the best conference board for mature motorcyclists of all types, very similar to this board here.\" No offence to Terry, but it still is; although we don't know for how long..."}, {"response": 52, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (10:38)", "body": "How can this be?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (11:31)", "body": "Because the server is in someone else's hands, unfortunately. We yeild control, but not our resolve!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (13:15)", "body": "The existence of XRoads relied on me working for an ISP. As long as I had access to a machine that was on the Internet 24/7 and was running NT or 95 we could run the XRoads software. But now that I don't work for an ISP I have no way to host it. That's why I found you. The software is quite excellent. If you'd like to check it out, Terry, goto this address: http://linus.i70.net:8080/ when it asks for a username and password, just invent one."}, {"response": 55, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (13:29)", "body": "All this time CrossRoads was for mature motorcyclists and no one told me?"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "Really like your site Steve. Those Brit bikes are gorgeous. If you know anyone interested in a 1972--all original, extremely fine condition, Triumph Bonneville 650 let me know! For Mature Audiences only! hehe"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (13:45)", "body": "So that's what you look like! Shame that I don't have access to a scanner! Don't worry, Steve, I don't think they'll throw us off!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (14:25)", "body": "OLD is a state of mind! \"I have nothing against growing old, its growing \"up\" I want nothing to do with!\" \"What do you mean I going through my second child hood? - I havent finished with the first one yet!\" I'ts nice to have reached an age where you are no longer childish - just \"odd\" (I'd be excentric, except you have to be rich to be excentric :) )"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (14:53)", "body": "Why does Steve's face look familiar? Hmm. BTW, when say \"mature\" riders, I figure you understand that means squids need not enter, unlike much of what I see elsewhere (MO, CW, a la AOLchats). Yoo're as young as you feel..."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (14:54)", "body": "SInce \"eccentric\" means \"off-centre\", you probably fit the bill!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (14:54)", "body": "Do y'all want to see what Stacey looks like? Stacey, is it ok to post that picture I have of you?"}, {"response": 62, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (15:43)", "body": "What's the deal with you collecting pictures of women Terry? (Very big grin). How much did you say he was asking for that Bonnie, Brad?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (15:43)", "body": "I haven't heard from Stacey for days now. Last e-mail I got from her was on Tuesday. I wonder what happened to her?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (15:56)", "body": "I have a lot of pictures of women... I just don't have any women! I wonder if Terry has the same (raw) deal?"}, {"response": 65, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "Jon, the asking price is $3,500. I think my bud is somewhat flexible. He is moving and needs $$$. She's a beauty. A sale would be a real Triumph!"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (16:10)", "body": "I assume it'd survive a ride from the D.C. area to Colorado."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (16:10)", "body": "What was the topic again?"}, {"response": 68, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "That is a good price for a Bonneville. They usually sell for more than Nortons and I got $4500 for mine a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, the president of the Utah British Bike Club has no British bike but you ought to see what I'm doing to my Ducati!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (16:37)", "body": "Putting in rotten gaskets and Lucas electrics? :-} It took me three tries to get the word \"electrics\" right in the above sentence. What does this tell you about the influence of Lucas?"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "Steve, thanks for the info. on pricing. Jon, if you are interested the offer stands. The owner is in England (how ironic) right now, but will be back at the end of next week. I'll keep you posted. And Sam, yes, I presume it would survive the ride. However, I would never make a ride like that on a bike I didn't know inside and out. I do have a friend (an HD dealership mechanic) who owns several Triumphs (in addition to HDs) who could give it a thorough mechanical evaluation if someone is really serious. Matching salad bowl helmet is not included. Other restrictions apply."}, {"response": 71, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov  8, 1997 (12:43)", "body": "I might be serious, Brad. I could afford it about 2 months from now. The new Tracker is making things a tad tight right now. I'll check with you then to see if he still has it. As for getting it back, I'd prefer to ride it, but you're right--if it was a low miles, late model Honda (or any of the big four, for that matter) I'd have nothing against flying in and riding back. But that might not be an option with an old Triumph."}, {"response": 72, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov  8, 1997 (12:44)", "body": "Could you post a pic, like you did with your bike?"}, {"response": 73, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov  8, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "Oh. I just noticed the \"he is moving\" part. Damn. Too bad the timing isn't a little different because I could probably be on a plane in 6 weeks to go down and buy the thing. Oh well. You sold the Norton, Steve? Goodness why? It was one of the most fantastic bikes I've ever seen (a picture of). Gorgeous."}, {"response": 74, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "I'm putting this in \"Safety\" cuz it wasn't too safe, but here's the story of storing my bike last weekend. There was a 40 foot stretch of solid ice straight up hill going to my buddy's garage. I had ridden 20 miles on the horrible rear tire to get there. So my brother gets on the bike, gets on the non-icy dirt road and gets a flying start. Wipes out about half way up. Hilarious. After getting that far it took us about 20 minutes to get the ramaining 20 feet. Neither my brother or the bike were damaged very much (he had a sore ankle the next day, but nothing bad)."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (09:40)", "body": "Jon, yes he is moving, but not out of the area--that's not the issue. The issue is getting $$. He isn't actively selling it yet, but he may put it in the paper soon. I will try to get a pic and scan it for ya. I don't think a couple of months would necessarily be a big deal for him depending on how committed you were. He comes back from England tomorrow, and I'll get some info from him then. You have a name to live up to! :-)"}, {"response": 76, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (13:40)", "body": "I'm back! I spent the last few days standing out on I-25 heckling motorcyclist w/o helmets and eye protection... windy!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (14:15)", "body": "Now Stacey, would you really do that? Respect is a two-way street, lid or no lid. There is honest disagreement about the benefits of helmets, and the statistics are not as one-sided as you might think. Sometimes helmets work well, and sometimes they can be a liability. There are no absolutes, and heckling helmetless riders is nothing more than a fast way to get a sore throat! hehe The best defense against head injuries is rider skill training, not mandated helmet use. It always has been, and it alw ys will be--demogoguery notwithstanding. If you don't agree, you'll be far more effective lobbying your legislators than the folks with the wind in their hair. He who willingly trades freedom for safety has neither."}, {"response": 78, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "It doesn't matter cuz the bikers went by so fast that they couldn't hear her anyway.... What about some earnest money in a month or so?"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (16:04)", "body": "I think that would be fine. We'll talk--I won't let him sell it without giving you right of first refusal, and I'm sure he'd work with you on the $$ plan. Meet my loan officer, Vinny! He likes animals! hehe"}, {"response": 80, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "Brad must've missed the debate some weeks back. First of all, duly noted with the respect thing see responses way back when. Second of all, there ain't no way in hell I'd stand outside and freeze MY ass off telling some silly fiend to cover his head. I'll take the Darwinian approach and say that those leaving pieces parts of their brain on the highway shouldn't be reproducing anyway. Just keep the blood off my newly washed car! Whoo! I better be careful with my excuses for being absent in the future. I shoulda just told ya'll I was puking my guts out last week! *smile*"}, {"response": 81, "author": "Shane", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (17:05)", "body": "Puking would have been acceptable... :o)"}, {"response": 82, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (17:16)", "body": "(LOL) okay, I'll remember next time. But if you ever see some girl flagging down cyclists on a busy highway... just think about it, okay?"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (17:35)", "body": "We almost always pay attention to girls flagging us down! hehe Nice pants!"}, {"response": 84, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (17:37)", "body": "LOL! Hi-larious."}, {"response": 85, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (17:39)", "body": "You washed your car? A luxury I can't afford. See, where I live you wash your car and it's covered in mud as bad as when you left by the time you get home. It's frustrating because it's a pretty color paint and I actually *want* to wash it (something that will wear off soon enough). It'll probably be a few months before it gets washed. Ah, the luxury or asphalt."}, {"response": 86, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (18:10)", "body": "I wash my car 2x a year on average -- I get noticeably better gas mileage for a few months afterward! The inside even got a vaccuum! Hey Brad, they may not be flagging you, make sure you pay attention to which finger they're waving! *smirk*"}, {"response": 87, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (18:44)", "body": "Hee. Yeah, as sexy as we motorcyclists think we are, I've never had a girl actually flag me down...."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (18:46)", "body": "OOooooohh!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (22:07)", "body": "One reason why I want a bike, apart from the fact that it can get me to Ocho Rios when my legs won't) is that it has a pillion, to be used just in case... Since this is about staying safe, perhaps I should get some boots..."}, {"response": 90, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "I'd say get some boots, not just for safety, but because riding will wear out whatever is on your feet. I have some $120 tennis/hiking shoes I could use (would last *maybe* a year as often as I used to ride), or a $100 pair of Wolverines (the soles will last about a year but I can have them resoled three times before I need new ones). It makes good economic sense."}, {"response": 91, "author": "yves", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (02:59)", "body": "Jon, do you put your feet down when cornering????????Or to stop??????? Yves"}, {"response": 92, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (10:38)", "body": "Sam, you might see if you can get some of those new \"low\" boots they have now. i believe Motoport carries good ones for about $75. They aren't high like boots but offer decent protection and durabilty, better than hiking shoes. in your climate and riding conditions I don't know that you'd need a full boot."}, {"response": 93, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "Hee. To stop. I use the \"right foot on the brake, left foot goes down\" technique taught me at the Motorcycle Safety Foundation class so my left sole goes first. When you put 15,000 miles a year on a bike, almost all of it in town, it'll wear out your shoes."}, {"response": 94, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (16:52)", "body": "I'd say use a full boot for safety's sake. It's a small trade off to have your foot/ankle completely and securely encased in heavy duty leather to ensure that there's little chance of getting your toes scraped off. Sure, a full set of leathers will cut into your comfort and might not be your style, but the trade for wearing boots (mine are even steel toed) is minor, in my opinion."}, {"response": 95, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (03:06)", "body": "We're talking boots..cool. Just bought a pair Cabella's Wellingtons (low heel, rounded toe boot). They're black with 200gm Thinsulate lining and a Gore-Tex booty. They should arrive tomorrow via UPS (or so they promised). I'm tired of lacing up my hunting boots (same lining and booty), though they're very comfortable and heavy. Left foot first, eh Jon? Wonder if you can replace just one shoe..hehe. Stacey, didn't I see you out on I70 a few months back? What? I didn't hear that..eh? er..Speak up..hehe. You had to be joking I presume. This is a good bunch of people. A refreshing change."}, {"response": 96, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (03:16)", "body": "This is a good bunch of people. A refreshing change. Hey, thanks alot!"}, {"response": 97, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "Coulda been joking... but isn't reality sometimes a joke?!?!"}, {"response": 98, "author": "Shane", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (15:48)", "body": "Prefer a stiff Hiking Boot........ Not the old brown bombs that weighed a ton but the new ones that they have are almost like a tennis shoe... Lots of ankle support, they are a leather and nylon mix, and they provide great traction, most of all they're comfortable...."}, {"response": 99, "author": "jammie", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (13:03)", "body": "Let's get back to the helmets; it was so much fun. Can't understand why people wouldn't want to wear a full-face helmet. Forgetting about safety, the ride is so much quieter and more enjoyable. And what about all those bugs and tree stuff that keeps banging off my helmet? I wouldn't want that stuff bouncing off my noggin. Back to safety, it's like the safety belt issue. It's the law and you gotta do it. If people don't have sense enough to wear a helmet, then they should be required to. It's against the law to jump off tall buildings, a form of guaranteed suicide."}, {"response": 100, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "Allright Jim! I'm not fighting the masses on my own anymore!"}, {"response": 101, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (13:32)", "body": "Yeah, but there's something to be said about the wind in your face--ever drive a convertible? It's the same thing. I've only ridden a bike without a helmet around the block, but I can see the attraction."}, {"response": 102, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (13:38)", "body": "Even with a helmet, you can still have the wind in your face! And, yes, I can also see the attraction. It's just that way to realistic visual that gets going in my head... brain matter on the road."}, {"response": 103, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (13:49)", "body": "Jim said \" Forgetting about safety, the ride is so much quieter and more enjoyable [with a full-faced helmet]. Not for me it's not. I like the feeling in an open-faced helmet. It's lighter, and easier to see and hear. Besides, I bought a bike to have my face in the wind. If I wanted to be isolated from my surroundings, I'd be inside my car. Jim said \"it's like the safety belt issue. It's the law and you gotta do it. If people don't have sense enough to wear a helmet, then they should be required to. It's against the law to jump off tall buildings, a form of guaranteed suicide.\" What's the punishment for that??? hehehehe. Perhaps we should let more of them jump!!! With respect to helmets, the facts on helmet safety are far from one-sided. Sometimes they help you, sometimes they hurt you (like breaking your neck). Riding a motorcycle is inherently risky. IMHO, helmet laws are a politically correct cop out. The best injury protection has always been, and will always be, rider skill training. The rest is called personal responsibilty for your own actions--something too many of us, IMHO, are willing to abdicate. Responsibility? Isn't that why we pay taxes? hehe"}, {"response": 104, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (13:56)", "body": "One last time--it's called Freedom. Something we take for granted here in the US, but which is being whittled away. Since when is it \"the land of the free (if they choose not to hurt themselves) and the home of the brave\"? Freedom isn't about doing things that are safe, necessarily. If only those things which are safe are allowed, how is that any different from the worst tyranny? And besides, if you follow that reasoning, the next logical step is to ban motorcycles--even with a helmet they're more dangerous than almost any car. Please tell me the difference between this argument and yours?"}, {"response": 105, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (14:11)", "body": "Jon Ive stayed out of this one so far, but thats a very valid point"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (15:09)", "body": "I agree with Jon *and* Brad. There's freedom of choice, and the feeling of freedom by itself. Old me, I remember when there were no full-facers, and I wore 'em. The full face seemed a logical (to me) progression. There are definitley times I like the open face helmet, as in NYC riding, there *is* a definite peripheral vision advantage and increased awareness. Before hitting the thruway I switch to full face, a precaution that takes an easy 3 minutes easily made up once I roll. First \"Choice\" is always the full facer for me."}, {"response": 107, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (15:13)", "body": "Oh, I agree. Unless I'm just putting around town at 2000 rpm, I want the full facer. And on the crotch rockets, they are actually designed to be used with a full face helmet, so I always wear one on the Ninja."}, {"response": 108, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (16:26)", "body": "I wasn't trying to be deragatory about wearing full-faced helmets. My point was to simply illustrate that two people can easily see the world in very different ways, and neither way is the \"only\" way. I have a full-facer too, for the coldest of days. Not a big fan of chapped cheeks--either set. hehe Are you going to jump of this tall building? Here, borrow my helmet! hehe"}, {"response": 109, "author": "jammie", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (23:14)", "body": "Isn't it great we can have an intelligent discussion without getting upset. Begrudgingly I must admit that there is more than one point of view. I don't think this is a major issue for bikers. There is a great need for attention to a lot of our needs and I think too much energy goes into the helmet issue."}, {"response": 110, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (00:47)", "body": "So true, Jim. Some say it's cuz of me that XRoaders are (for the most part) so civil and we haven't degraded to what's happened at Motorcycle Online, but that's not the case--XRoaders are (luckily) a good bunch of folks."}, {"response": 111, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (05:20)", "body": "I don't think it's luck. XRoads attracted a good bunch of folks; it also attracted a psycopath, but fortunately Jon got rid of him. I actually wanted an open-face helmet, but there wasn't one available when I went to the dealer; that's why the \"Anti-Tiger Device\" is full face. I was thinking about buying another helmet in Mexico to keep on the bike incase I had to carry a pillion rider, but they started at a 300 pesos that I wasn't sure I could afford at the time, and I was carrying a lot of other stuff home as well. Jamaican riders don't give much thought to safety. At least half of the riders I've seen don't wear helmets, almost no-one wears gloves, no-one wears a leather jacket. Part of it is lack of knowledge, part lack of funds, and, as for the jacket, nobody likes being baked very much. (Jamaica is HOT!!!)"}, {"response": 112, "author": "yves", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (05:36)", "body": "Sam, what will be your solution for the jacket?"}, {"response": 113, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (05:58)", "body": "I have no idea. There aren't any out here, and the ones I saw in Mexico were all over 1,200 pesos. I should have bought the gloves, though, but I was never sure of my financial situation. I'll look for some here, or ask someone in Miami to find some there, and I'll repay them."}, {"response": 114, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (11:24)", "body": "Sam, the new perforated leather jackets are a great option for hot weather riding. Would it be worth checking with Tony Scatton to see what he can do for ya? Tony and the Tiger? hehe"}, {"response": 115, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (12:30)", "body": "Damn, I missed all the fun! Jon, as we've discussed before, you make valid points and ones that I agree with. My stance is and, always has been, you SHOULD wear a helmet. My methods have only been those of encouragement (sometimes through derision !) and I have never pushed for more stringent legislation then already exists. For the individuals I care about, Idemand bicycle helmets. Cars are big and fast and trail rocks and trees are unforgiving. For those who I don't know, and who don't care enough about themselves -- all I ask is that you don't muss up my windshield. Helmets are a bright idea and, when worn properly (not way back on the head and w/o a firm strap hold) are MUCH safer than riding with no helmet. Jackets and boots and the rest of the motorcycle garb... I don't know enough about to have an opinion on. Road rash is a fright on a bicycle (or skates!) but crusing at 60+ mph... all I can say is OUCH! So all you springers... just use your brain. (I think) you're all adults and perfectly capable of making intelligent decisions. I've heard the arguement from one or two that when they wear a helmet, they feel less in control of the bike (for visual and balance reasons). You are supposed to know yourself best and your skill level. Just (as the conference topic implies) stay safe!"}, {"response": 116, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (13:36)", "body": "Really we don't want to lose *anyone*."}, {"response": 117, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (13:52)", "body": "Yeah, I like to wear my leathers. Even with my leathers on in my last little 30 or so MPH get off I had road rash (from my leathers and my jeans abraiding my knees). I can't imagine what even a 30 mph get off would do to you if you were wearing shorts."}, {"response": 118, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (14:36)", "body": "Stacey said \"Helmets are a bright idea and, when worn properly (not way back on the head and w/o a firm strap hold) are MUCH safer than riding with no helmet.\" That position is certainly the popular opinion, but not scientific fact. It really depends on the situation. A more accurate statement would be that helmets can provide good head protection in low speed impacts, and provide a barrier to skin abrasion under sliding conditions. The only thing that can make you MUCH safer is good riding technique to avoid accidents in the first place. So all you springers... just use your brain. (I think) you're all adults and perfectly capable of making intelligent decisions. In this case Stacey, I totally agree with you. How about mentioning that to your State Representative? Just (as the conference topic implies) stay safe! That's always the goal. That's why I will be attending another MSF Experienced Riders Course in the spring. Hope many of you will choose to do the same. A good offense is the best defense!"}, {"response": 119, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (18:40)", "body": "I have a helmet, but no organized riding course and no other safety gear. And, as I said before, I do not have a bicycle helmet, and if it has no brim or visor, I do not want one. If it is a choice between better crash protection and decreased risk of a crash, give me decreased risk any day. That is why, with bicycles at least, give me a cap or hat with a good, wide brim over a shadeless helmet any day. Dark glasses are not an option, I've yet to see an effective pair of clip-overs, or one that lasts more than a week (I'm just about blind without my glasses)."}, {"response": 120, "author": "yves", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (03:19)", "body": "I have clip-overs. So I never forget my clear glasses for night riding, I have them on the nose..."}, {"response": 121, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (07:31)", "body": "What brand? How much did they cost? Where are they available? Most of all, how long do they last? I have never had a durable pair of clip-overs!"}, {"response": 122, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (10:16)", "body": "Neither have I, I used to buy 2 at a time and try for the metal-framed ones. Now with contact lenses for 25 years or so I see advantages and disadvantages for both."}, {"response": 123, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "I bought contacts for one reason and one reason only (I'm about the least vain person you'll ever meet). I got sick of having to take the glasses off, set them on the seat (where they invariably fell off), put the full facer on, pick the scratched glasses up off the ground and put them on. Contacts are much, much easier if you're putting 1000 city miles on the bike a month and taking your helmet on and off."}, {"response": 124, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (14:06)", "body": "Yes but you still have to be careful. You see better w/contacts, just by the pure physics involved. But I have to watch how I turn my head, especially with an open face helmet, so either dirt doesn't blind me or I don't lose the lense, which happened once. And yes, you look *so* much better without eyeglasses!"}, {"response": 125, "author": "yves", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "I have an open face helmet(except for spring and automn driving).I could drive without glasses but for me it's also a safety gear(against durst, bugs,,,). I bought the clip-overs where I bought my glasses so they are (optical and physical wise) of good quality. They cost me $30.00 Cnd. And I well understand for the full face It's really a \"bug\"."}, {"response": 126, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (19:57)", "body": "I should have got prescription safety glasses; maybe I will when I get tested again and have my prescription changed! If I wasn't so miserly (or so broke!) I'd get some prescription sunglasses! Maybe those would be the safety glasses!"}, {"response": 127, "author": "Shane", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (13:14)", "body": "My only statement on the Helmet deal is this: YOU have a right to YOUR opinion and to decide how safe you want to be, I have a right to mine, If YOU wish to wear a helmet, put the damn thing on and lets go riding... just DON'T push YOUR opinions on me... I have plenty of my own.... :o) Shane"}, {"response": 128, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (17:07)", "body": "Now if we could all get our State legislators to agree to that sound principle, we would really have something. Bunch of hard heads! hehe"}, {"response": 129, "author": "Shane", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (12:37)", "body": "It isn't just the Legislatures... It's private interest groups that get funded by the Government... NHTSB, to name one or the IHTSA for another... Whenever you put special interests like insurance companies in bed with the government there is bound to be trouble.. It isn't about what is right or wrong for an individual, that is the smoke screen, it's all about spending the MONEY they take from us all year long, in order for them to make MORE MONEY..... And thanks for the compliment Brad...... Shane"}, {"response": 130, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (13:20)", "body": "You bet Shane. Influence (and shaping public opinion) is the name of the game. Unfortunately, it's something MCers have too little of, although we're gaining ground. You gotta fight for your right--not just party! Beastie Toys...hehe"}, {"response": 131, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (10:58)", "body": "Man I love 2 cents time! Let those who ride decide, that statement goes \"BOTH\" ways my friends. I am a ABATE an AMA member so YOU can have the right to ride \"WITHOUT\" a helmet if you so choose. On the other hand, will you all quit giving me so me HELL for weaing a helmet! I wear a lid because I \"percive it will help me in a situation\", it helps protect my eyes and gives me a quiter ride. I am not a communist because I prefer to wear a helmet, but you'd think so the few times I have botherd going to a ABATE chapter meeting! If you want wind in your hair and BUGS in you teeth, fine by me but I DON'T. This crap that you can't be a \"real biker\" with a helmet is \"Easy Rider Viedo's\" BS, as the shirt says $15,000 dollars and 15 miles (ie: to the local bar and back) don't make you a biker and just becuase to \"WEAR A HELMET\" don't mean that Iam any less a biker than you are! Thank you for the u e of the soapbox, I feel much better!! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 132, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (11:12)", "body": "Hey, I don't give you HELL for wearing a helmet, BJ. ;-) I agree! You should decide before you ride. Hey, if you don't wanna wear one, great! If you do wanna wear one, more power to you. I won't go around the block without one, but that's my choice. Just wanted to make sure you knew that I (and I don't think anyone else here, but you're right--some do) is accusing you of being a commie for wearing a helmet. I just think it should be up to you to decide."}, {"response": 133, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (11:20)", "body": "Hee, don't sugarcoat it BJ--tell us how you really feel! Just remember BJ, some people in ABATE don't wear helmets because their heads are already too hard! Freedom of choice, not freedom to chastise!"}, {"response": 134, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (11:45)", "body": "Whoa, BJ!!! Rein in there dude!!! hehehe, I believe the statement I made earlier was 'If you want to wear a helmet, put the damn thing on a let's go for a ride'... I understand your sentiment though. I try to coorect those that I meet who criticize those who excersize their right TO wear a helmet. The whole thing is about CHOICE... I personally think as long as you have the right to make the choice, mission accomplished. And Brad's statement is true, some MRO's get so into the fight, that they lose sight of what the fight is actually all about. ABATE is ALWAYS looking for a few hard heads..... hehehe Shane"}, {"response": 135, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (22:00)", "body": "Sorry guys, didn't mean to make it sound like it was \"directed at YOU\"!! It's just that man I am sick of getting crud and being deemed less a biker or less and freedom loving American just because I want to wear a helmet. Infact Iam going back to a full face this year and whoever doesn't like it can bite me!! It get's me really hot under the collar but I know you guys and gals are all cool so if I offended anyone here's my sincere apology. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 136, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (10:36)", "body": "No apology needed BJ, Throw on the Lid and Let's go Ridin'..... Even though I prefer not to wear them, I have several of my own.... Shane"}, {"response": 137, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (12:08)", "body": "Part of the \"biker\" deal is that you stand up real big for your beliefs no? Anyone who wastes time telling me what to wear & when sees my back real quick."}, {"response": 138, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (02:00)", "body": "What's a biker? One that rides a bike, no? Wimps aren't allowed to ride bikes? Seriously, I don't understand the biker \"attitude\" or the biker \"mystique\". A biker, as far as I know, is someone who, for whatever reason, chooses to ride a bike. The investment hunters and status seekers see riding the bike as a secondary thing, or even an annoyance or a hazard in some cases. Some ride because they want to ride. When I start riding, I will be riding because it will be more affordable, less wasteful, and more fun than driving. My standing up for my beliefs has much more to do with m y upbringing than any \"biker deal\"!"}, {"response": 139, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (02:09)", "body": "To me the definition of a \"Biker\" was someone who only rode a bike. But now that I own a car, my definitions are changing...."}, {"response": 140, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (02:37)", "body": "I think that the various attitudes and lifestyles demonstrated in this room would be a good definition of a Biker.... Jon said I was the real thing (biker) the other day... I think he was trying to say I needed a shower... Heee Shane"}, {"response": 141, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "Well I was brought up to beleive that a \"biker\" was a outlaw rider, hardcore chopper rider than rode in \"gangs\". A bike rider who rode many miles and great distances was a \"motorcycle enthuist\" or high miler or iron butt. All the rest where just a \"motorcycle rider\". But now it's all jumbled up, when a Electra-Glide riding lawyer who rides 1,000 miles a year is called a \"BIKER\", then the whole defination thing goes out the window!! Oh and don't forget the \"SQUIDS\" for the sportbike crowd and \"crotch rocket riders\" and Lead Slead riders and the Touring Barage riders, see what I mean. Someday, we will all grow up and realiaze we are all just plain old \"motorcycle riders\" as long as we are on two wheels and that's all that should matter. Ride to live, Live to ride is what we all really want, who cares about the rest! Tailwinds,BJ"}, {"response": 142, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "AGREED BJ!"}, {"response": 143, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (19:46)", "body": "Whew! I missed all the fun stuff! BJ, my definition of a biker (as I perceived it) was also someone a little left of the center line. And it holds true in the non-motorized circles. Hard core riders are actually called cyclists -- and the term is not used lightly."}, {"response": 144, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (20:40)", "body": "Stacy, well most motorcycle riders call bicycle riders \"bikies\" but cyclists sounds much better. In the 80's I was really into bicycle touring but it went from \"enjoying the ride\" to \"how much exersize can it get\"! It quit being FUN and became work and heavy competition in nature and I bailed! I had 2 multi-state tours, a century and double century ride to my credit and then did some novice Mountain bike racing, it was at least FUN but I never took it seriously! Wouldn't mind finding a good road bicycle again but I doubt they have 3XXX lycra bicycle shorts, ha ha! Enjoy yourself but I will stick to the \"motor propelled version's) Tailwinds, Bj"}, {"response": 145, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (10:11)", "body": "Stacey last week the NY Times had a \"business\" article about how Cannondale in particular is starting to design & market a new breed of XCountry bikes to appeal to (natch) the \"older, more affluent bicyclist desiring a well-made rugged bike with more comfort than the pure mountain machines\". Soon the RUBs can have a TrailKing parked next to the Hog!"}, {"response": 146, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (10:58)", "body": "Ya Frank, but it's really hard to get a trailer through the woods on those narrow little dirt paths! hehe Introducing the Cannondale Soft-tail Cycle!"}, {"response": 147, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (19:19)", "body": "\u001b[BAnd they called it SoftRide..."}, {"response": 148, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (21:52)", "body": "Left of center? I don't know--I'm a right wing biker myself... ;-)"}, {"response": 149, "author": "Shane", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (23:43)", "body": "All the bikers in England are Left Of Center... Right Shebee??"}, {"response": 150, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (00:10)", "body": "Jamaica, too! Caution: Left Hand Drive! heeheehee"}, {"response": 151, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (05:59)", "body": "Thats me : left of center on the roads, way off center in life! :)"}, {"response": 152, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (17:03)", "body": "Not trying to freak anyone out. I think these statistics are actually positive. Deaths are still going down! Almost half of the deaths involved single-vehicle accidents (many alcohol-related), and one third involved unlicensed riders! To me, that means there is a lot of potential to dramatically lower the death rate in the future. Let's stop talking helmets and start getting to the root of the problem! \ufffdIn the United States, 2,075 motorcyclists died in crashes in 1996, down 3 percent from 1995 and 33 percent fewer than in 1975. \ufffdThere were 52 deaths per 100,000 registered motorcycles in 1996 compared with 18 deaths per 100,000 in cars. \ufffdThirty-one percent of all fatally injured motorcycle drivers in 1996 didn't have valid licenses to operate their motorcycles. \ufffdForty-two percent of motorcycle deaths in 1996 occurred in single-vehicle crashes, and 58 percent occurred in multiple-vehicle crashes. \ufffdForty-five percent of deaths in single-vehicle motorcycle crashes in 1996 involved drivers with blood alcohol concentrations at or above 0.10 percent. An unlicensed/uneducated/untrained/drunken rider = dead rider!"}, {"response": 153, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (19:51)", "body": "I admit; when I was a kid & found out that you could buy without a license, I went and did, for about a year. Then several friends got popped and I figured \"hey I can do this\" and got the license, etc. Trouble is many smalltown police look the other way and don't check. \"Rider Ed.\" ought to be mandatory as soon as you're a permit holder IMO. This would contribute all around; state coffer, the MSF school, and the riders themselves. What'cha think? And yes, alcohol + riding = death"}, {"response": 154, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (23:37)", "body": "In the United States, 2,075 motorcyclists died in crashes in 1996, down 3 percent from 1995 and 33 percent fewer than in 1975. True, but only about as third as many people ride now. But I agree--stay safe and stay sober and you'll probably be o.k."}, {"response": 155, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (08:53)", "body": "Frank, I like the idea of \"mandantory\" MSF training to get a Lic. to me it just makes sense. Iam tougher than you, though I'd like to see a \"mandantory\" Superbike school required for riders to purchase and ride a \"sportbike\",(600cc and up). The kids in my area are always on the ground cause the dealers will sell them ZX-7's without a lic. I don't feel the \"average motorcycle rider\" has any where near the skills to ride a serious sportbike well. MSF will help but a Superbike School would make them reliaze just how powerful machine they ride, maybe they would respect it more. Just because you rode some old \"beater standard\" for 10 years doesn't mean you can \"truely handle a serious sportbike\". Required training is the best answer! BJ"}, {"response": 156, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (09:51)", "body": "Absolutely Frank and BJ--need the skills before you use the tool. BTW Jon, I believe the rate of deaths per 100,000 riders has also decreased, which would factor out any changes in the absolute number of riders. Education is a rider's best friend!"}, {"response": 157, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (10:01)", "body": "BJ you'd like it over here then recently they have introduced stepped lisencing in addition to the compulsory basic training. it works like this (ish - because i have a full unlimited lisence from years back so I dont know the specifics) 1) you have to do compulsory basic training before you are allowed on the road at all 2) you can then ride a bike up to a low powerlimit, i dont know what is but the bikes are generally 125cc. If you dont take a test within 2 years you lose your lisence for a year and then have to start again with the CBT 3) you can take a test that will allow you to ride a bike up to a higher powerlimit again I dont know exactly what power but the bikes are around 400cc 4) you can then take a 2nd test (class A) for a bike of unlimited cc/power (I think you have to wait 2 years and the test has to be taken on a bike arround 400cc) BUT if you are over 25 you can go from the CBT to the 400cc test immediately. This is the basics of the system here. I belive all of the tests require proper training, just riding around for a couple of years learing bad habits wont get you through! but again if you are over 25 it is possible to take an intensive course that will train you from CBT to class A test in a week! This is what a lot of the 30+ beginers are doing and may be at least partially responsible for the fact that our worst accident statistics are no longer the 17-19 year olds but are 30-35 year olds with less t an 6months experience riding bikes of over 750cc. Training can teach you to pass your test, but there is no substitute for experience in keeping you alive, I dont know of a way to teach the 6th sense that develops over the years, the sense that puts you on immediate alert and warns that warns you : \"that driver hasent seen me\" or \"I can smell diesel, lets not brake hard just at this instant!\" An aquaintence fresh out of his test on his 1200 Sporty was nearly wiped out recently when a car in front suddenly changed lanes without indicating at 70mph+ on the motorway, luckily my insticts cut in and I threw my pillion weight to one side and we avoided the impact. His reations just werent up to the unexpected, I was ready for it because I had learnt to read the road ahead and was half expecting the driver to do something silly I agree that training is important, but it should not instill false confidence that you know everything, if I had'nt been on his pillion he would have been splatted! I am still learning after 20 years on the road, but the main thing I have learnt is treat all other road users as complete idiots, expect the unexpected, and occasionally you will be pleasantly surprised. Oh and I dont ride pillion with him any more!, well not for a couple of years anyway :)"}, {"response": 158, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (10:18)", "body": "Of course you are right Shebee--there is NO substitute for experience. Training is designed to give you the knowledge to make better decisions, but not to substitute for experience. However, the lack of training is surely a receipe for disaster. The English system sounds interesting. I guess I would not think of the cc class of the bike as being a key ingrediant, since the lower cc bikes can actually be MORE dangerous--lighter, quicker, etc...But I like the idea of a graduated approach. I think a different option might be to restrict licenses in to certain conditions. To begin with, no license, no bike! Other limitations might be things like day riding only, or restricting the right to carry a passenger until you can demonstrate the necessary skills. But Americans don't take that kind of regulation lightly or very well, so it probably has zippo chance of being implemented. Remember, this is the same country where you can walk into a store and buy a submachine gun! I think in reality, if we could just get all states in the US to adopt the MSF courses as the baseline requirement for a license and bike purchase, we would see a dramatic improvement. The only change I would make, is that in order to get a license, you would have to pass the test on your own bike! Hey, look mom, no hands!"}, {"response": 159, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (10:21)", "body": "Shebee, oops You got me wrong there, Yes I do believe in mandantory training but I do humbley agree with you that \"experiance\" is the only way one learn's to ride well! Personally your lic. system would not work well here as a 125cc bike would get you killed on our interstates but I have no problems with say starting on a 400 to 500cc machine for 2 years. It's stated in our MSF riders courses that the most \"dangerous time for a new rider is the first 2 years\"!!!! That's why if someone takes the Beginner MSF course, they are incouraged to \"take one or two full riding seasons's, then come back and complete the \"Advanced Riders Course\". My problem is that at current status in the Coloines at the moment, a 16 year old kid can buy and ride a CBR900RR (Fireblade) with no \"TRAINING AT ALL\", I have been riding for over 20 years and I can't handle that bike anywhere near it's potentail so how can a hormon charged 16 year old do it, he/she is just a fatality waiting to happen, IMHO!! Let's face it a slow moving cruiser or standard would surfice to train new riders on better than a CBR1100XX or YZF-R1 but that's not what the \"kids\" (the future generation of motorcyclist's) want to ride but it would be better for them. Nothing can replace experiance but I'd sure like to give them a real \"fighting chance\" to be around long enough to \"GAIN THAT EXPERIANCE\". Tailwinds,BJ"}, {"response": 160, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (10:46)", "body": "I agree with everyone, but the key IMO is that the dealer shouldn't sell any bike first without \"proofing\" for a license. Once that's established perhaps the riding novice can be encouraged towards a formal Rider Ed. course. the biggest problem by far is the unlicensed or \"permit\" holder riding out of the dealer on whatever his parents co-signed for, be it dirt or streetbike. Horrible. Also, don't we all know some person who has actually been riding for Xm number of years, but not well? I do. Riding with these (guys) is almost more distracting than cages. Like spending \"shooting time\" with a rowdy, y'know? The hated word \"Education\", it's got to happen."}, {"response": 161, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (10:50)", "body": "BTW at least on dealer demos you've gotta show the license/endorsement. I missed one demo this fall because though I could ride the sidecovers off the bike (a Buell) I forgot my damn wallet when I shot out of my house! But if I just went in and said \"I'll take this bike\", with money etc., can you imagine the possibilities if I was a disco-squidder?"}, {"response": 162, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (11:11)", "body": "Well, I can tell you that every HD dealer I have been to requires a license with an endorsement for motorcycles prior to sales. Some even require it to get on the list! Maybe for HD it's a way to eliminate the wannabees and keep the list a bit more managable. They're just not as desperate for buyers I guess. You want some ID? Will my high school yearbook picture suffice? hehe"}, {"response": 163, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "I don't believe in mandatory anything. A, it would reduce the number of riders and scare some away from getting into riding. But more importantly (and I'm a radical lunatic in most people's eyes these days for believing this) is freedom. We live in a society that's so used to being pushed around that government mandates on how we live our lives, how we take care of ourselves, etc. is completely accepted and even desired. It's a shame that it's gotten to this point that we've forgotten what freedom was like."}, {"response": 164, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (23:43)", "body": "Hey, Jon; can ya (legally) drive a car without a licence? In Jamaica you can ride a bike with a learner's permit and \"L\" plates. You're not supposed to carry a pillion, but I have almost never ridden without one (the owner of the bike!) You can also register a bike on a learner's! I intend to take my test once I've mastered the bike (if I ever get around to fixing it!)"}, {"response": 165, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (00:31)", "body": "Jon, ok I understand were your coming from, maybe government control in any sort is bad. So we just return to the \"strongest survive\" and let the squids rot in the sunlight and feed the buzzards! Humm, there is \"no way\" to have absolute freedom my friend as some sort of social control has to be enforced or you could just \"shoot your neighbor\" cause his music is to loud. We'd all be wearing 6-guns, yeah ha! Welcome to the Thunderdome! BJ"}, {"response": 166, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (02:59)", "body": "Hey, I can see not selling a bike unless you have a license. Also, if the dealer decides (and this may not be at all bad, as Brad pointed out with the Harley dealers) that he doesn't want to sell a bike to a guy without a license, or if he wants to somehow encourage the new rider into taking a course, great. And no, I have NEVER proposed that murder is o.k. That's the same argument you hear all the time \"yeah, you can't have freedom because then you could shoot your neighbor\". Bullshit. Freedom is not about no laws (even in the old 6 gun days you didn't get away with it--people came looking for you, causing you to have to live a miserable life moving from town to town ala Billy the Kid, et al), but a reasonable amount of laws. I'd like a show of hands. How many of those here started out a little wet behind the ears, maybe bought an old bike from a neighbor and took off riding, perhaps saved your money and bought a bike from a dealer, but all in all didn't take the \"safe\" prescribed root to becoming a motorcycle rider? Was it about doing something because it was safe? Was it about doing something because it made sense? No, it was about riding. The other thing is that this argument about \"mandatory safety classes\" is identical to the helmet law--it's an arbitrary definition of what's considered an acceptable level of safety. As I've said before, some believe you shouldn't leave the house without full leathers, others think that a T-shirt and no helmet are fine, and some are afraid to leave the house because even that is too dangerous. Should you leave the house without MSF training? See, personal safety should be a personal decision, n t some arbitrarily mandated rule passed to make someone's life safer. The other thing is that we live in a world where we honestly think that we've got some kind of scientific solution to everything. People die in car wrecks? Mandate air bags--it's a magic hand that will save you. People getting pregnant? Classes about the birds and bees. People losing their teeth? New chemicals to keep 'em healthy. People dying on motorcycles? New laws about protective gear and more classes, that'll fix it! The fact of the matter is that you've got to avoid wrecks to be sure to walk away from them, almost everyone knows the birds and the bees and they act on their own morals, everyone knows you need to brush your teeth, and everyone knows that riding motorcycles is dangerous. And, most importantly, everyone has a right to decide at what level of \"safety\" they want to lead their lives (or whether or not they brush their teeth, etc.). And that's how it should be."}, {"response": 167, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (03:05)", "body": "So we just return to the \"strongest survive\" and let the squids rot in the sunlight and feed the buzzards! I'm going to be crucified for saying this, but why not? Where's the problem with this? We somehow believe that we can have freedom to a certain point, but hand over freedom elsewhere. \"The government can't tell me how to live my life, except....\" Where do you draw the line? Why is it not o.k. to have the government tell us how to vote, but it is o.k. for them to mandate that we have to give up motorcycling if we chose not to sit in a certain class. See, \"The Line\" is completely mandatory and is set partially by society and is constantly pushed further and further by politicians trying to get ahead. \"I'll pass this law to reduce motorcycle injuries, saving millions of dollars\". \"I'll pass this law to reduce gun deaths, saving millions\". Do these laws work? Who cares? They results or success are never examined, but one thing is for sure--our freedoms are whittled away bit by bit. I'm not some conspiracy theorist who believes that there is some group of individuals plotting to take our rights from us piece by piece. Rather it's complacency. \"We're comfortable where we're at, what's a few less freedoms gonna hurt?\" Over time, more than you think."}, {"response": 168, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (10:04)", "body": "Well Jon, you have stated things well. I understand your fear of the political or bureaucratic \"Line\". My approach is a little narrower, perhaps; we, as experienced, live motorcyclists, *can* be responsible, without being complacent, to the sport by advocating structured rider training and licensing *before* purchase. My angle is \"if you want to really know what it's about, get instruction/do it right\" and your enjoyment will increase exponentially. I'm not for giving the \"governors\" free rein at all. But simple example, by experience: you are not a Squid, you run your favorite route, let's say 3 years, ev ry week. Takes you 30 minutes. You take a Penguin course or whatever. Now you're running that route in 20, smoother, more aware, *enjoying more*, and staying alive."}, {"response": 169, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "..I think this sort of encouragement *should* be part of every dealership. I think bikes should *not* be sold used without a copy of a license from the buyer. Yeh, this would make it more elitist in a certain respect, but I think it should be. If you can fly a sailplane, and have 1.2 million dollars, should you be allowed to buy that old fighter-trainer in Robb Report? IMO, NO. I think the HD dealer procedures mentioned make tremendous sense, I respect it. The government didn't have anything going on there, but it helps eliminate a certain group in a way. This has to do with \"Staying safe\", not \"restricting lives\", in the long run."}, {"response": 170, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (12:15)", "body": "I ask again, if you need a licence to drive a car, why shouldn't you need a licence to ride a bike? I don't know what a driving test is like in the U.S. (it probably varies from state to state), but here in Jamaica, if the system is followed (which is probably rare) one has to first take a written test to prove knowledge of the Road Code, then one has to prove that one can successfully reverse, park & hill-start the vehicle, and finally one must drive the vehicle on the road with one's instructor beside you and the examiner in the back, giving directions. That's for a private car licence, a commercial icence includes a written test with mechanical questions and a test vehicle within the weight limit of the licence to be assigned (I'm probably one of the last people to have an 8000 lb licence, they've gonne metric now!) There's a similar test for motorcyclists, but I don't know the details. I intend to find out, though, and TAKE IT (once I'm competent, that is; I WILL be riding on a learner's permit!) If you have to prove your competence to the authorities in order to drive a car, why shouldn't you have to do the same in order to ride a motorcycle? Hell, if the Government of Jamaica (which is an old draws!) required bicycles to be licenced, I'd gladly pay up IF it is linked to instructions in the Road Code! THere are a lot of dangerous bicycle riders out there!"}, {"response": 171, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "I agree about the class. I took the first MSF class I could take when I bought my first bike, and didn't get my license until the week after I took the class. As a result the bike sat mostly idle (I did practice some on this little deserted street near my grandparent's house) for a month until I finished the course. I've taken the ERC course twice since then. That means I've taken MSF courses 3 times in the last three years of riding. I think the classes are good. But I think helmets are good and I don't propose forcing someone to wear them. I like to vote for a certain party, but I don't propose forcing others to do the same. But you're right, I don't mind encouraging people to follow my ideas--if I didn't think that they were good ideas I wouldn't have them in the first place. So encouraging the MSF is a great idea. Lots of posters at bike shops, bike shop proprietors pushing the courses, maybe even a new angle especially oriented toward sport bike riders. Not \"learn how to ride like a maniac\", but something more along the lines of the superbike schools--to make the sport riders feel like they're only doing it halfway if t ey haven't taken the classes."}, {"response": 172, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (14:33)", "body": "I never said it was (or should be) o.k. to ride a bike without a license. (I believe in freedom but anarchy doesn't work.) If you get caught, you get in trouble, your bike is towed, etc. I'd say it was a bad idea. If I ever said that riding without a license is O.K., please point out where."}, {"response": 173, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "You're right--with a car if you pass a certain level of competency, you're given a license. You don't HAVE to take a class (although many do). Why should it be different for a bike? Because riding a bike is harder? Hell, make the test harder if you must, but don't make it even harder to ride. Besides, I know people who had ridden dirt and street bikes on their farms for years who could out ride me even after I took the class. Why should they be forced to pay $120 for the class and waste three days? Sure, they'd be a bit more safe, but why should *I* have the authority to force that on them?"}, {"response": 174, "author": "yves", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (17:51)", "body": "If your not safe it dos'nt bother anyone. But if your not safe for others, there is a problem."}, {"response": 175, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (18:38)", "body": "You can be a threat to others on the road, no doubt, but on a motorcycle you're less of a threat to others than in a car. And let's face it--we've got some real idiots out there driving. I know because I used to be one. I didn't become a \"good\" driver until I started riding. Nothing like the fear of immenent death to keep you honest! Besides, I think that overall most bike riders are more aware, pay better attention, drive/ride more defensively (the skills learned on a bike translate to a car as well) and generally are safer on the roads. Therefore we should encourage as many people as possible to ride. The second you require an MSF course, you're going to see participation drop off drastically. My dad (only halfway jokingly) proposed that everyone be required to learn to drive on a bike. I think you'd see the general safety level on the roads increase dramatically. Of course, I don't propose this, but I do think that bikers are generally better motorists all the way around."}, {"response": 176, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (18:58)", "body": "But doesn't getting a licence require taking a test? Proving that one can competently operate the machine on the road? Or are these courses at a higher level than the riders' road test for the licence?"}, {"response": 177, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "Sam, in Colorado if you take the MSF beginner's course and pass you don't have to take the \"driving portion\" of the motorcycle test. As you stated, the motorcycle driving test here is a \"JOKE\" and the MSF course teaches much more than slaming on the brakes and not dumping the bike and going thru a row or two of traffic cones. Jon, I still don't agree with you but I see your point, I still feel strongly that the \"Beginners MSF course\" should be MANDANTORY to get a lics. If a new rider is not willing to take the course and chooses not to ride, that's ok with me, who needs more untrained squids on the road!! Now the \"Advanced MSF course (ERC)\" should be on a \"volunteer\" basis for riders of \"non-sportbikes\" but I still firmly feel that anybody who is serious about riding a sportbike should be required to take \"Superbike/Class/etc. training\". You should have to get a special lics. to drive a \"high performance car too\" (ie: sport car) IMHO there's a lot of difference between a 911 Targa and a Suzuki Swift! Ok, so am a Tryrant but that's the way I'd like to see it! BJ"}, {"response": 178, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (19:29)", "body": "All of BJ's statements in the first class apply to Texas too. Take the MSF class and you get an insurance break, don't have to take the riding portion of the test, etc. Even after I took the MSF I wasn't much of a rider, but still passed the test with flying colors. The only demerit I got was for not putting my foot down properly--even though I was doing it exactly as the class taught. The class said slow down and put your left foot down right before you come to a stop. The testing officer said hang oth feet out about 20 feet before you stop. So even the MSF and the DMV aren't in sync! It's o.k. if you believe this, BJ, but if this was implemented it would seriously hurt the sport. You'd see alot fewer riders. Heck, what if you work an important job from Wednesday through Sunday? Tough luck, can't take the class. What if you already don't have a license and were thinking about getting one? I think you'll see a lot fewer licensed motorcyclists. I like you alot BJ, I just don't understand how you can sit here and say \"they should be required\". You're not the type who likes to push others around. I know plenty who are and want to enforce every control over other people that they can. I guess I just don't follow your train of thought. Besides, you've learned first hand about government interference. Why aren't you getting the Harley you wanted? Because Uncle Sam took half of the money that Jo earned fair and square. Highway robbery."}, {"response": 179, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (19:38)", "body": "First of all: I see motorcycling less as a sport and more as a means of transport. I've got a bit of an aversion to thinking about sports on a public road... Secondly, what's wrong with upgrading the test to include what's taught in the MSF course? If the test is a joke then it should be made serious! These are people who will be riding on highways with cars and trucks! Where exactly does individual freedom end and public safety begin? I'm sorry, Jon; I've seen too much madness on the road to agree with you on this one."}, {"response": 180, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (20:04)", "body": "I don't disagree about the test. The problem is that the test *does* include everything in the class, but it only takes about an hour. The MSF course takes 16 hours. The problem is that they've got these stupid multiple choice questions. \"When coming into a turn you see some sand in the road. You should A-Slam on the rear brake, causing you to slide out and wreck, B-slam on the front brake causing you to go over the top and smack a tree, C-ease off the throttle and maintain a steady rate of travel an lean through the turn.\" I agree, it should be harder. But I guess we're going to diasagree, Sam (although you SHOULD have a license when you ride--just wanted to make srue my philosophy there was clear). See, I don't think it's my right, as a voter or as a motorcyclist, to tell you how to lead your life, and I don't justify any attempt to control others' lives by saying \"it's for your own good\". That's a common cry of tyrants (although I *know* that none of you are fascists! ;-)"}, {"response": 181, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (10:07)", "body": "Your own good, or (as Stacey would say) the good of the driver you fall in front of? Yes, the written test was multiple choice here, too. And I don't know what the motorcycle road test is like here (in the driving test the instructor tried to trick me, but it didn't work!), but I had to take lessons from a private instructor in order to learn to drive for the test, and I took the test no less than six times! Why would riding lessons be a deterrent to people who want to ride? I'm not suggesting anything like the German driving test (God forbid!), but something that will show up the competence (or lack thereof) of the rider!"}, {"response": 182, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "Jon, ya your point is taken, I guess I just feel like \"most people who want to learn to ride, will take the \"easy way out\" and \"not bother\" to gain training just becuase it takes a little time and money! The basics are \"so important\" that unless it's mandantory, many riders may not make it to the \"volunteer advanced phase\" of motorcycling. Damn, I sure wish they had that kinda training when I learned to ride in the 70's, I almost got myself killed a few times with \"minor mistakes\" that in real traffic could become fatail errors!! See I learned on a 250cc street bike, went to a 650cc bike then up to the 1000cc+ machines and I \"feel\" that really helped me become a \"surviver\", now into my 21st. year of riding a motorcycle and with the ERC course at least every 2-3 years I hope my chances are good to ride till Iam 80! Just can't imagine how a \"16-19\" year old kid on a new ZX-7 has any real chance of being a \"long-term\" or life long rider \"WITH OUT TRAINING\". Your'e gona tell me the \"normal\" squid kid is gona \"VOLUNTEER\" for rider training, he/she think they are \"indestructable\" and are \"too young to die\"! I guess it's because I love this stuff and hope the future riders will be 'LIFE LONG RIDERS\" so the sport can grow but without proper training on how to ride street machines that would have been considered \"Superbike Raceworthy\" less than 20 years ago, that any 16 year old kid can purchase, the future doesn't look promising, IMHO. BJ"}, {"response": 183, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (14:19)", "body": "Well, at least they'll be in motorcycling their whole life long, it's just that their whole life won't be long!"}, {"response": 184, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (19:37)", "body": "Once again, BJ, how many here started with some old bike they bought from a neighbor, riding around little back roads, doing everything \"wrong\"? I'm sure alot, especially the older riders. Some of that is illegal (as it should be), but again, I think that discouraging others riding because I feel it's not safe is a bad idea. Besides, it's against the law to ride a bike when you're 16 unless you take the class, so that's no argument."}, {"response": 185, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (19:40)", "body": "How did you get your start, BJ? I got my start (as noted previously) in the proper \"BJ Prescribed Way\", with a class, on a slower bike, etc. Most of the older riders I know (and many of the writers of moto mags) got started in a less than \"safe\" way. One of the best riders I knew was a woman in our class who had been riding for years on the dirt roads around her house out in the country. Again, no license, and it should be illegal to ride without one, but even though she didn't fit the arbitrary defin tion of \"safe\" (no classes, no license, etc.) she was a better rider than I was."}, {"response": 186, "author": "yves", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (05:38)", "body": "I'm in the *older* gang, and had my riding licence 'free' with my driving licence, 29 years ago.At that time the only big bike were owned by eeeh *kind of angels...). The \"normal\" people bikes where under 250cc, and traffic was by very far lighter. I learned (3 years ago)on a 200cc trail bike. But when I took the road, a very important thing I didn't had to deal with was the traffic reading. My 16 years old kid is now driving the car (he took a driving course before), he's riding his dirt bike better than I do, but he'll never hit the road without a riding course, even if it is not request to have his licence. P.S. Each spring I have a refreshing course provide by or local riding club."}, {"response": 187, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (13:46)", "body": "Very interesting debate gentlefolks! Jon, I don't think the MSF has to be mandatory--but a legitimate license test should be. You take a class or not, but the test will require you to perform in realistic situations and demonstrate your ability to handle the machine within the legal limits. Many states do this for both bikes and cars. In this respect, training is totally different than helmet laws. Helmets are designed to protect YOU--licenses are designed to keep you from hurting ME or interfering with MY rights to use the road safely! If you can't operate a motorcycle safely within the law, then you don't deserve to be on a PUBLIC roadway--that simple. If you run someone off the road because you can't control your bike, or injure an unsuspecting passenger than you have adversely interfered with another person's rights. No law is perfect--they all require tradeoffs. But turning loose a person on a public roadway without a minimum set of skills is a risk to all of us and the freedom we expect and share on OUR roads. Don't tread on me!"}, {"response": 188, "author": "yves", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "Brad I totaly agree with you.I was unable to write it down clearly you resume exactly what I think."}, {"response": 189, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (15:01)", "body": "but a legitimate license test should be. You take a class or not, but the test will require you to perform in realistic situations and demonstrate your ability to handle the machine within the legal limits. Many states do this for both bikes and cars. Hey, I *never* said that you shouldn't have to have a license to ride. I agree, I agree! I also agree that the test is too easy most places."}, {"response": 190, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (16:22)", "body": "Jon, I know you didn't say that. But you did say that gov'ts should not require training. What we do agree on then, is that a rider should be qualified to ride to receive a license, by meeting minimum standards. Rider training can be accomplished by whatever means the rider chooses. In DC the \"riding test\" is literally a figure 8, and one lap around a parking lot! A total joke! The irony is that DC also doesn't accept the MSF certification as proof of rider skills. How about that for encouraging training and responsible driving! In Virginia, successful completion of the MSF course is accepted in lieu of the State road test--a very good idea, IMHO. Yes, I'd like a license and a large fries to go please!"}, {"response": 191, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "Wow, what a long topic to catch up on. California likewise dispenses with the road test in lieu of taking the MSF course. Brad, you just plain blew me away with the DC law..sounds ass backwards and highly inadaquate. Over 20 years ago I just went out and bought a used Suzuki TS250 enduro. Passed a written test and had six months to go take the riding portion of the test. I think I did alright overall, but wish there had been an MSF course back then. I think everyone who gets an mc license should take the SF beginners course, but agree with Jon that it shouldn't be mandatory. Just make it worth the riders effort to do so. Being able to skip the DMV riding test and a discount on insurance should be a big enough incentive I'd think to take the course. Some are just too damn lazy to do anything about it. Maybe there should be some more incentives to take the course..falling just a bit short of making it manadatory."}, {"response": 192, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "Hey ho! Me again! Everyone wearing helmets???? You know it's the law! *cackle* *eagerly anticipating the same cyclical arguement* *evil laugh*"}, {"response": 193, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (20:14)", "body": "massive groan... Stacey, why did you waste your time (and ours) by writing that? \"All the good songs have been sung, What's to be said has been said; You live your life until one day You're dead.\" The only Sam Blob poetry on the 'Net. (I was trying to make up a song around this, but it didn't work!)"}, {"response": 194, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (20:28)", "body": "Stacey, not if you live in Colorado, no helmet law here! I wear a helmet\"because I damn well want too, end of arguement!!! Jon, yes I learned the \"bad way\", the MSF courses didn't exist in Colorado in 1976. I bought a used 74 GT250 street bike and walked it \"12 blocks\" to my apartment. For 3 weeks I practiced at a dirt lot where they were building a Safeway, I took my \"test\" at the Aurora, CO. police course, we had to do many figure 8's, ride over a 4X4 wood beam, do several low/high speed turns and stopping drills and a tight circle from large to small! I passed it the \"first\" time, many failed. I still would like to see t e \"beginner MSF course \"mandantory\" for a cycle lics. Your example of a lady is good but VERY RARE, most are kids on new sportbikes that \"pass\" the local drivers test, because it's a JOKE and when they hit the road, the way they ride shows it! Grumpy old bastard, BJ Ondo"}, {"response": 195, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (22:39)", "body": "Sounds like Texas is somewhere between what you describe and what Brad describes (I agree with you 100%, Brad). We actually had to ride on the street. A friend showed up with you in a car, and if he didn't have a license you get a ticket for riding without a license, and the officer rides with your friend behind you. They honk once for right, twice for left, and take you on a short course through the town (about 3 miles overall). Pretty easy, but it doesn't have to be. With this kind of test you could get a good idea of the experience/skill of the rider. How he pays attention, how he responsds to other traffic, etc. Instead they pretty much let everyone pass."}, {"response": 196, "author": "Shane", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "The Texas Riders Test is a JOKE!!! My wife was the person piloting the car the testor rode in and when all was said and done she said they were talking so much about fishing he even forgot to send me my \"Honk Prompts\". I also asked him at the end of the test what kind of bike he rode and his comment was 'You'll never see me on one of them things\". Heeeyyyy That's a guy that gives a $#*&, about our \"Safety\". I also have to comment on MSF courses. There will be a 1980 Honda CR80R under our Christmas Tree this year for my 10 and 8 year olds. They will also receive all the appropriate saftey gear (see credit card invoice hehehe). If they become as addicted as I did at that age, there should be a never ending river of Motorcycles in the Garage... Will I require a MSF course from them?? It will depend on several things like Attitude, Skills, etc when they transition to the street. The thing that bothers me is w at certification does an MSF instructor go through?? I know 2 people who are \"Certified\" and one can hardly keep the bike upright... NOT where I want to send anyone for lessons. The key to a safe driver is to make damn sure the person walking through the door knows their stuff... The act of waiving a riding test based on an MSF course is absurd!! How many folks here slept through Math, or Reading, or whatever and still passed?? Me says NO to Mandatory MSF.... And I hope no one here wants to say I am not qualified to teach my kids to ride..... I'd compare riding records with anyone...."}, {"response": 197, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "Ah hah! Perhaps it all comes back to the fact that you have to be responsible for your own safety and there's no \"magical combination of words\" you can hear to make you into a good rider."}, {"response": 198, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (18:29)", "body": "But Shane, you, unlike many others, will see to it that the youngsters follow the legal paperwork at the right time. My gripe is against the chronic outlaws, not the ones \"raised right\"."}, {"response": 199, "author": "leroy", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (18:56)", "body": "I think I have to put in my $.02. Here in B.C. Canada, there are some restrictions on licensing. I got my first bike in 1958 (kind of gives my age away, doesn't it) and there wasn't such a thing as a motorcycle operators license then. Now, when you get your learner's permit you are restricted to riding not over 60 kilometers/hour (40 mph), no night riding, no passengers, no riding on the freeways and to riding with a qualified rider over 18 until you take your \"pre-test\". This involves demonstrating some iding skills such as a figure 8, rapid acceleration and deceleration, shifting gears up and down etc. When you complete that, you can ride by yourself but all the other restrictions still apply until your final driving test. If you take the test on a bike that is smaller than 250 cc, you have to re-take the driving test to be qualified to ride a bigger bike. the problem is that in the spring a lot of people go out and get a learner's permit and ride all summer for 6 months, then put their bike up for the inter. In the spring the local police will have road checks along the freeways for bikes to make sure you are properly licensed. I usually get stopped 4 to 6 times in the spring. If you don't know a rider, it pretty well means that you have to take instruction from a riding school. The are certified to test you and then all you need to do is go to the DMV to get your licence. I taught both of my sons to ride and they passed first time out ( took their test on a Ninja 600) and neither has had an accident y t in about 7 years. LeRoy Pattison Non Carborundum Illegitimii! (Don't Let The Bastards Grind You Down!) '92 Goldwing SE (210,000+ on the odometer Cacade Classics Bun Burner 1500"}, {"response": 200, "author": "Shane", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "Frank, you just hit the nail on the head.... Stricter testing of knowledge and ability is the key here. People who really want to ride rack experience up rather quickly and should not be affected. Do away with situations where MSF courses take the place of the driving tests. Or how about something really novel, like making sure the Tester is someone who has actually straddled a bike a time or two and not someone who was \"Ceritfied\" via a textbook, and just happens to be the examiner. The very thing yo just praised me for should be the same standard that we hold ALL testors/instructors too. They should all be motorcyclists that have stood the test of time......."}, {"response": 201, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "Au contraire, Sam! Twas not a 'waste' of my time. I really get a kick out of you big boys getting so damn touchy over an agreed on, over discussed topic! And, for those of you who were indeed clueless (ie: you have no clue as to my penchant for impish tendencies)... thanks. You made me laugh out loud!"}, {"response": 202, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "Shane, maybe \"YOU\" are qualified to teach your kids to ride but I have seen a lot of \"lousy riders\" who are Dads teach nothing but the \"YEARS of bad habits\" to their young'ins\"!! A \"impartial instructor\" is best, a father (\"NORMALLY\"), will be much harder on a child when wanting them to succeed up to \"their expectations\". I have been riding for \"21 years\", but that doesn't make me a \"GOOD TEACHER\". Find a good instructor and tell them you want your kids to learn under \"only them\", it shows you care!!! Just MHO, and opinon's are like A@#$%)&s, everybody has one. Just looking out for the \"future of motorcycling!! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 203, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (21:46)", "body": "Shane, gotta part company with ya partner on this one. The MSF is the best thing going as far as rider skills go for those of us without riding dads. The State tests I've taken were far easier, and involved NO classroom training at all. I'm all for strict certification standards for the MSF instructors if there are some bad apples, but based on personal experience and the experience of many, many others, I think the MSF has proved sound in most areas. IMHO, substituting the MSF course is a good idea if the State is unwilling to do a decent job. It gets people in the classroom and on a bike for 3 days of training--not 15 minutes around a parking lot. Until States decide they want to invest in safety, the MSF is the best, and most widel available alternative. You can pass the buck, but you better pass the test!"}, {"response": 204, "author": "Shane", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (22:25)", "body": "Brad, I truly do not think you parted company with me on this one. We have basically said the same thing. I do not disagree with MSF training, I agree it may be the best thing going,(I should have been clearer) I even said if my own kids were lacking in skills that I was unable to beat into them (oops there I am too hard on em already hehehe) that I would make them take a course. My comment is strictly that the Best Thing Going leaves A LOT to be desired. The change needs to begin with the people who are giving out the licenses, read that the State. People must be held to a standard in order to have effective control over the streets. I think this standard is often times neglegted in even the best of MSF conditions. The best thing going needs to be put to the test everytime someone graduates, what better way than to take the testing of it's graduates to better levels. The Stat I live in gives a waiver to MSF graduates, however, the agency does not require it's testors to take the course. There is no system of checks and balances. Finally BJ, I understand what you are saying, and to a degree even agree, my father was a terrible teacher (unless it was beer drinking 101) and I do not think that EVERY father should be their sons teachers...... However I think mandatory MSF is a shot in the dark to the bigger problem, piss poor motorcyclists. Just like Defensive Driving is a shot in the dark to piss poor drivers, the only thing Defensive Driving has given these piss poor drivers is 1 \"Freebie\" of a ticket a year for $25.00. I also ho e you saw the humor in my beating statement.... It truly was meant to be light hearted......"}, {"response": 205, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "True, Stacey, we've gone on and on with this topic for a while. That doesn't stop me, however, from adding that...... True BJ, but if they're a lousy parent, no amount of government intervention is going to save the kids. And what parent is a \"good\" parent? My mom was 17 when she had me and made plenty of mistakes, but overall did a good job. That's because the only way to get good at being a parent is to do it--to the misfortune of the children usually, but big deal--it's part of growing up."}, {"response": 206, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (08:57)", "body": "I guess I misunderstood you Shane--my mistake. Yes, the states should have serious tests and trained personnel, and the MSF should constantly strive to meet quality standards for certifying both riders and instructors. I just believe that if a state won't do it, then they shouldn't promote a sham--instead they should allow the MSF certification to count. Clearly rider (and driver) training is woefully lacking in many states, and the price is paid with body parts. Just read a story about a middle-aged man who was killed recently when he panicked, locked up his brakes unnecessarily, and high-sided--throwing himself 30 feet and breaking his neck. Several bikers who rushed to the scene saw that the new bike had less than 1,000 miles on the odometer, and it was later revealed that the man (a doctor no less) was a new rider who had no formal training. Unfortunately, that scene is all too common. I've personally pulled a couple of high spirited teens out of the woods after they failed to negotiate turns. Both were relatively new riders on high powered rockets. Some of it is maturity and some of it is skill. Both are needed if you want to survive. Most bikes are far more capable than their riders ever will be"}, {"response": 207, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (10:25)", "body": "Well, as is the norm here, everyone has made very clear points (hopefully I'm one too). The common denominator is the present lack of training for motorcyclists. In Floyd Cymer's \"Motorcycles\" book from the 60's there are many pictures of dealers instructing newbies in their own lots, from Honda 150s to Triumphs. What happened? In NYC I've seen helmetless kids fying the opposite way down a 2way onDP bikes on crowded summer days, cops parked watching. I've a neighbor who wheelies out of his drive down the street, a blind incline, went to 2 friends' funerals last summer, etc. Skilled riders are \"old men\" at 35 now. And if you're 17 with a co-signer, you can still buy that R-1 in January. Doesn't look good to me..."}, {"response": 208, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (19:25)", "body": "have you ever made a move to increase the amount of riders with formal training? Not that you guys would ever approve of legislation but... if drivers are required to take classes (in all states or no?) couldn't something be extended to motorcyclists? Or at least have training more readily available. Not that I've ever looked but, I've never seen any type of motorcycle ed advertised. Maybe one or several of the manufacturers could work out some programs. Afterall, everyone loves philanthropists and hey, it just might increase sales!"}, {"response": 209, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (22:11)", "body": "Stacey, what \"driver's training\" are you talking about? Most new auto driver's are taught by \"Dad or Mom\" or worse by some other 16 year old friend!! Auto driving training is not \"mandantory\" by any means here in Colorado. The Motorcycle Safety Foundation beginner rider course is \"strictly\" volunteer basis. IMHO it should be mandantory but my buddy Jon, is against that due to wanting \"less government control\", this I can appreciate to a point but riding a \"motorcycle\" requires \"much more\" skill than dri ing a \"CAGE\"!! Shane, yes my friend I know your in jest about the \"beatings\", I do understand your wanting to \"train right\". I do agree that the MSF course could be \"much more in context and the curiculum tougher. I guess I don't have as much faith as Jon, that \"new riders\" will make the rational thought\" to figure that MSF traing is needed! Just leaving it up to the \"whim\" of a new rider, doesn't seem to accompish much to gain more skilled riders from the very beginning. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 210, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (01:42)", "body": "They're not required to take training unless they get their license under the age of 18. Once you're 18 years old all you have to do is take the test, get it about 70% right, and you're on the road. True, most kids take driver's ed from school and are on the road at 16. But that's a good point, because even with all that training (I spent hours in my class) most are crummy drivers anyway. Tells me that training doesn't do much good and thus the only way to safety is to outlaw all dangerous activities completely. Make everyone take a bus. True, it does require more skill, but you know the best way to become a good motorcycle rider and a better driver? To get out and ride. This sport has too few participators as it is, we don't need to worsen that problem."}, {"response": 211, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (09:51)", "body": "Jon, there we disagree totally, \"just getting out and riding does not always make a \"better rider\"! Experiance can and is a \"very deadly teacher\" my friend. To be honest I don't think my wife Jo would have survived your method of \" learning to ride\", the MSF course gave her the \"minimum skills\" for her to be at least \"semi-comfortable\" and get out on the road. I tried to teach her but after 20 years of riding, there are things I took for granted she should have understood. Example: she kept lanching the ike toward cars in the parking lot, I couldn't figure it out. After the first day in MSF training, she came home and stated:\"gee, I never realized the THROTTLE grip went back and forward!!!!! Sending her out on the road without minumum training would have resulted in a disaster for sure. In Colorado Jon, School's \"no longer have drivers ed\", you must pay \"big bucks\" for a private driving school or be taught by parent's or friends. That's why Teenager's have the highest death rate per vechical in the state of Colorado. I was lucky as back in the 70's it was offered as an elective class, but not in the 90's. I guess my friend we will never agree on this topic but it's fun beating it to death anyway. Tailwinds,BJ"}, {"response": 212, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (09:58)", "body": "But that's a good point, because even with all that training (I spent hours in my class) most are crummy drivers anyway. Tells me that training doesn't do much good and thus the only way to safety is to outlaw all dangerous activities completely. Make everyone take a bus. Jon, I know you're not suggesting that training is useless. People who want to learn will, and those that don't--no license! I'm not saying that we should force less than perfect riders or drivers to take the bus. The idea is to have a realistic minimum standard for skills. And that means some education and some practice until you can demonstrate competence. True, it does require more skill, but you know the best way to become a good motorcycle rider and a better driver? To get out and ride. Well, that's certainly the best way to perfect your skills. But frankly, I don't want untrained pukes next to me on the highway! There is a minimum level of skill you must have BEFORE you enter the public roadway. That's why the MSF is conducted in big parking lots. Perhaps MSF rider training should be expanded to include some basic road work after passing the beginner skills test. Unfortunately, there are a lot of clueless, licensed riders and drivers on the road today without even minimum MSF skills. These people pose a danger to YOU and ME. Ever done a group ride that included a couple of unskilled riders? I have, and it's scary as hell. This sport has too few participators as it is, we don't need to worsen that problem. I agree. Let's make sure that folks that enter the sport stay alive long enough to enjoy it and contribute. The quickest way to damage the long run viability of the sport is to sanction the demise of untrained and unskilled participants. MSF--Maturity + Skill = Fun!"}, {"response": 213, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (10:23)", "body": "I gotta lean to Brad & BJ Jon...no one's got the slant to \"outlaw all dangerous activities\" in the established participating group (motorcyclists). That's where I think it should originate from, the idea of increased skill-training. From the cyclists, dealers, and ultimately the manufacturers(whose small-print disclaimers are a shame). I'm not saying \" the government should pass a law blahblah..\". I'm saying the dealers *at least* should make an effort to corral the young guns before they get killed witho t knowing why. I feel if i'm always bending someone's ear about how great it is to ride and they bite, it's my responsibilty to do my best to get 'em at least to a MSF group first, then show 'em why Ducati's a superbike."}, {"response": 214, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (10:25)", "body": "What would Jerry Springer do with us? (o;{"}, {"response": 215, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "Allright boys. Seems to me you're merely complaining and not offering any suggestions. BJ, what would be YOUR suggestion? Shane? Jon? And unfortunately, by the time I get back online this may be one big spam fest... but I'd really be interested in what you think might help the situation. Excuse me for possibly treating you like several of my students but they tend to do the same thing -- present problems and discount any solutions presented. I encourage them to come up with workable plans... as I now encourage you."}, {"response": 216, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (12:28)", "body": "Stacey, you need to re-read this thread. It's chaulk-full of suggestions, from increased licensing requirements, to mandatory MSF training. The question isn't finding proposed solutions--it's agreeing on which one(s) are best! And even the best laid plans require political leadership. This country doesn't have much of that, which is why our reps. spend their time instituting no cost and politically expediant helmet regulations instead of focusing money and people on useful rider education and training ;-) Pick a card, any card!"}, {"response": 217, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (15:22)", "body": "political leadership? Why Brad, I didn't not know you also appreciated a good oxymoron. And yes, it is full of suggestions. As a non-rider that is all I feel intelligent enough to add. And you cannot agree on which solution is best until you propose a few and get some modifications going. So I will ask again... do you have any?"}, {"response": 218, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (15:59)", "body": "The idea that I am trying to get through to ya'll is very simple.... If the Testing requirements were tougher the \"New\" or \"Crappy\" rider would be placed in a position to HAVE to seek out the help of MSF or a more experienced rider in order to pass the test. There would be no \"Common Sense\" to it. When I had to take Statistics in College I employed a tutor BEFORE I got into trouble. I had seen the class, knew I couldn't take it for granted and was forced to spend some extra time and effort to get the l ttle piece of paper that is now tucked away in a closet somewhere, here I am years later and if I had to do statistics again guess where my butt would be?? (Hellllloooo, Show me what the hell is going on!! hehehe) The same would hold true for ANY rider. If some non-chalant jack-ass walks into the DMV and fails his test because he has to know more than 75% of a motorcycles braking power comes from the front brake, he would be more inclined to seek out MSF. The decision should be \"How bad do I want to ride\" and not \"Do I want to take a course or not\". The current testing allows for literally ANYONE to get a license, regardless of skill level (same for cars) I have been riding a long damn time and would want to do what I had to do to maintain that status, or find another hobby like fishing, for which I KNOW I can get a license for..."}, {"response": 219, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (16:04)", "body": "Oh, and just to help you sort out the changes there Stacey, My proposal between all the windiness there is: Tougher testing by the state that is more in line with day to day operation of motorcycles. This test should be administered by people who actually RIDE motorcycles. Potiential licensee's should have an option of going to a class where they can recieve instruction on passing the test, (MSF). Pretty simple really..."}, {"response": 220, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (17:40)", "body": "And yes, it is full of suggestions. And you cannot agree on which solution is best until you propose a few and get some modifications going. I think Stacey just wants to see a good fight! hehe OK, here's a modification--I agree with Shane, except I don't think many state legislatures and DMVs will step up to the tough licensing plate. Why? They have no political will to take on the folks in the line at DMV who don't want tough standards! I can just hear those people who get rejected screaming about fairness, personal freedom, and overzealous, government regulation (Jon correct me if I'm wrong here! hehe). IMHO, until a State commits to tough testing, they might as well provide a small incentive for rider skill training by allowing the MSF to count towards fulfilling their licensing requirements. Something is better than nothing. Can you ride? Yes. Ok, go to isle 3 please."}, {"response": 221, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (19:11)", "body": "What I get outa all this IHMO, is (like Brad) to require tougher state administered tests. You can, in lieu of taking the state riding test..take the MSF course (but I don't think you'll see the MSF course mandated..though it's not an unreasonable idea). And I think Brad is right in that getting states to do this is like trying to pull teeth from a gorilla who isn't sedated. Do any states allow you to get a mc license w/o taking the riding portion of the test?"}, {"response": 222, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (19:31)", "body": "Kevin, I like the analogy! Shane and Brad THANK YOU! for the easy-to-understand suggestions. Now, for the layman, has anyone ever attempted to push these toward that pie-in-the-sky political realm? (Don't snicker if the obvious answer is yes, I am an admitted NON-rider curious, that's all) As antiquated as it may seem... somebody's gotta start the ball rolling. And, I'm not flaking out on ya'll, but I'll be outta virtual touch for a bit (no access at home and 2 weeks o' vacation starts today!). After you breathe your collective sighs, someone snag me by email and give me the answers that arise... stacey@www.spring.com. I am truly interested in seeing something done about this and, if it's going nowhere fast, my jumping on the bandwagon certainly couldn't hurt! (Hmmm... well, we can all think about that one!) Smiles and happy holidays! Stay safe whether or not you chose to ride with a helmet!"}, {"response": 223, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (20:06)", "body": "I wonder if Stacey's related to JSun..."}, {"response": 224, "author": "Ed", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (20:46)", "body": "To my way of thinking, there is not enough regulation for either new riders obtaining a license or dealers who sell new riders a ride that is beyond their capability to handle. On more than one occassion, I have had to pack up the personal effects of one of my young sailors who managed to take their brand new shiny toy up to the top end and kill themselves, before they took the mandatory safety course required for military motorcyclists to take before they can ride on base (there is a backlog and 30 ay \"grace\" period...a young guy coming back from a deployment can take his money in, buy a super wham-dyne bike, and head for Texas, or Arkansas...wherever he/she calls home without the benefit of any training). It is easy for all to sit back and be very cavalier in attitudes and talk about how we are overregulated; I will tell you this, it hurts when you are the one trying to talk to a father or mother when they are in tears asking you why their youngster died. At that point, there isn't enough regulati n...to prevent that one death, those \"freedoms\" you talk about, I would gladly give up. That part of my life is behind me, but I remember those instances in lots of detail. I am in favor of mandatory safety courses, and some sort of conditional licenses such as SheBee talked about, and dealer controls. My two bits worth. Ed"}, {"response": 225, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (03:19)", "body": "Test"}, {"response": 226, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (03:29)", "body": "Damn! I had a great response and got an \"Internal Server Error\" and it's gone. Anyway, I never said that \"just going out and riding is the best way to do it\", but that many motorcyclists probably wouldn't be riding today if there were a bunch of severe regs. You can say \"yeah, but we don't need 'em\", but we'd be without Peter Egan, and Jimmy and Buster (the retired guys who I used to hang out with who helped get me started in riding) and many of us here. As for the \"if it saves one life it's worth it\" argument, you can't follow this logic. This is basically carte-blanca to hand over your rights. Banning rock climbing and snow boarding and bungie jumping would save lives. Banning fatty foods and implementing a government mandated tofu diet would save thousands. Lowering the speed limit to 30 nationwide would save thousands. Why don't we do this? Because it would make life not worth living. Life is dangerous and there are no guarantees. You may live a long life doing dangerous things (those old guys I mentioned earlier did all kinds of crazy things and will probably live to be 90) or get killed at an early age. The point is that life is worth living because we DO have our freedoms, unlike some places in the world. And NO ONE has to preach to me about suffering. About 6 years ago my cousin was in a severe motorcycle wreck that left him paralyzed on the left side of his body and has screwed up his life. He had never been on a bike before and didn't have a license! Did the laws do him any good? Would stricter laws help? The answer on both counts is \"no\". And there's a huge part of this regulatory plan that is being ignored--who's going to fund it? Either you'll have to drastically increase the cost of the class (already it's about $100 and already partially government funded) to fund the newer, larger beauracracy (no government program works without one--it's naive to say \"it won't happen this time\") or pay for it with tax dollars. And guess what the first area to be cut by the non riding legislature is going to be? See, you can't hand over your rights to a government system that has no interest in protecting you as a group. They'll write you off and sell you down the river in an instant."}, {"response": 227, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (11:28)", "body": "Jon, ya know MRF is looking for a Colorado State Representive as we speak, you sound perfect for the job my friend!! So you don't think that if you cousin had \"taken training\" before he rode, it \"wouldn't have helped\"? Still sounds like your saying to hell with any regulation, let me ride and if I kill myself, it's \"my right\"!! Humm It seems there is no \"REAL ANSWER\", between \"FREEDOM\" and \"SAFETY\". So the only thing I can see is to make MSF training function by \"PUBLIC FUNDS\" (ie: Donations or set fees), with no government backing and \"strictly voluntary\" in nature. This way the squids will just kill themselves off early in life and not be a problem we have to deal with! Seem's a little \"EYE FOR AN EYE, TOOTH FOR A TOOTH\" old testament kinda logic to me. It's just an opinion weither it's right or wrong is strictly a judgement call at best. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 228, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "MRF? Whuzzat? Sure, it would have helped, but he never would have taken it. He was at a party and decided to hop on someone else's bike and take it for a spin. He had no desire before then to ride a bike. Public Funds will never happen. The non-riding politicians don't know or care. We're very naive if we actually think that in these cash strapped days the government is going to spend money on us. Eye for an eye? Eye for an eye means \"if you hurt me, I'll hurt you\", what does that have to do with anything? No, that line of thinking is more Darwin than Old Testament. But the bottom line (as always) is that freedom means being allowed to make decisions, whether or not BJ or the government or whomever thinks it's safe. I understand where you're coming from, but to me libery and freedom are what makes life worth living. I personally took the class before I got the license, but I don't see how it's my right to force someone else to do the same."}, {"response": 229, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (15:07)", "body": "I think what Jon meant by his cousin is, he'd have been riding that bike w/o a license no matter what regulations were in place (ending in the same result)..it just wouldn't have helped in this case and many others like it."}, {"response": 230, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (10:01)", "body": "Ok, I get the jest Jon. Still looks like a \"no win\" situation in my book. MRF= Motorcycle Riders foundation, the MRO that's has a true \"lobbists\" in Washington, DC. and is the \"source\" that ABATE seem's to work thru at the capital level. I guess your right Jon, freedom usually has a \"dear price\" to pay for it's usage, didn't realize I was \"putting on the thumb screws\" buy wishing for a \"mandantory MSF\" training. Just wonder if it possible to really be \"that free\" in a modern society, doesn't seem really probable as our lives are all ready \"severly governed\" in most daily aspects. I guess adding one more didn't seem a \"real loss\", you've open my eyes a little. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 231, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (10:37)", "body": "RESPOSIBILITY, not regulations and classes, is what's most important! Handing a loaded gun to someone who's never shot, interested or not, is irresponsible. Handing a key to a motorcycle or car to someone who's never \"done it\" is the same. This is my gripe against dealers and sellers in general, and IMO wjere the problem starts. I remember a guy who talked truly perfectly about how he'd ridden dirt for years wanted a shot on my Laverda, a mature guy in most respects. I refused, he proceeded to take the key to my buddy's Duc 750GT, got about 50 yards and dumped on the right side, damage to bike & person. Red-faced confession: He had *never* been on a 2 wheeler in his life. C'mon!"}, {"response": 232, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (13:52)", "body": "Gee, the \"real man theroy\" at work, ha ha. It amazes me that it's so \"looked down on\" to just admit, \"I ain't got a clue\"! I agree with you Frank, I got to know a person real good before I would let them ride my one and only bike. Right now there is only one other person I'd \"truely\" trust riding my bike. We've been best friends and riding buds for over 15 years. Had a bud with a \"brand new\" ZX11, he let a supposed friend with years of experiance ride it and within 3 blocks he lost it hit a car and fliped the bike, it was totaled!! Guy had ridden small dirtbikes for a year or so on the family farm, beware!"}, {"response": 233, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (13:52)", "body": "Oops, that was a brand new ZX10! BJ"}, {"response": 234, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (13:53)", "body": ""}, {"response": 235, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:22)", "body": "Again, there is already a law against riding without a license, and it's unlikely that you could pass even the stupid tests they have today without some experience, so I'm not going to defend a concept I never advocated. I agree, Frank. Personal responsibility is a foreign concept these days as many expect the government, their parents, (someone else) to make their decisions for them. It's up to you to make responsible decisions, as it should be. Anyway, I'm not going to argue this anymore."}, {"response": 236, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "I let a friend of mine who had his license, had taken the MSF class, and had been riding for years ride my Ninja the day I bought it. Had a wreck within one block."}, {"response": 237, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:43)", "body": "I've only let a couple of people ride my RS. Being such a big bike (wants to swing wide in the corners) you have to be real careful..just as careful as loaning out a sport bike that you know is beyond the capabilities of most riders. In each instance with my two best friends here locally and my good buddy Jon here, I let them ride it on an open country road where I was behind them (not that Jon needed looking after..hehe). It was just as strange an experience for me on Jon's Ninja as it probably was for J n on my RS. So you should not only be real careful with who rides your bike, but make sure that you know their capabilities. I knew Jon had owned a Gold Wing, so the big bike wasn't going to be his first experience. Besides..he has such a trusting face..LOL."}, {"response": 238, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:55)", "body": "Hee. LOL. Yeah, but my new policy is NEVER loan a bike out to someone. There's too much risk. 'cept maybe to Kevin, he seems like such a nice guy...... :-)"}, {"response": 239, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:57)", "body": "Well, I enjoyed the RS, but it's not my style of riding. Going from the Ninja to the 'Star on that tight little mountain road, well, it was downright frustrating. :-)"}, {"response": 240, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (16:33)", "body": "Yeah, I understand Jon. I've had several of my younger brothers friends plead with me to take the RS for a ride and I just smile at em. I also understand how switching to the RS from your Ninja could be frustrating..you're so used to being able to lean into a corner and have the bike do exactly what you want. At that point you're fighting the RS..not comfortable to say the least. It was fun though. ;-)"}, {"response": 241, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (21:44)", "body": "The person who taught me to ride said that I was the only person he'd trust with his bike (He even said that after I dropped it...), but that was several months ago when I was still in practice. He also warned me that when I got the bike fixed (still hasn't happened, maybe over the Christmas holiday...) I was NOT to lend my bike to ANYONE!!!"}, {"response": 242, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (11:49)", "body": "Any time I've been given the key to another guys bike it's someone I know and have ridden with for quite a while, and I'm a stickler with my keys myself. When my friend (whom I taught) offered me the Road King key i refused like 4 times because I just don't feel comfortable on huge bikes (plus I don't have 20G's!). After I sat behind him a few times I \"broke down\" and rode it (o; but I felt i was breaking a personal rule..maybe old fashioned, I dunno. I had a mechanic offer me his Darmah once after I got tuck in the city, but he had the Laverda as collateral!"}, {"response": 243, "author": "Shane", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (13:52)", "body": "\"You wanna ride MY bike??\" \"Can I see your License, Insurance Cert, Birth Cert, Credit Card, Marridge License, Mortgage papers, Alien Registration Card, Credit Rating Report, Soc Sec Card, Student ID card, Work ID, DD214, Certified Driving Record, Gun Registration forms, high school year book picture, and finally IRS form 1040 (a) with the raised seal of certification, ?\" \"Don't have all that on ya? See me when you do\" hehehe I will generally let people I know and trust take the bike for a spin if they want, with the understanding that if \"You wreck it, I hope you enjoyed the ride, cause you and me are going bike shopping\" \"Ohhhh, I'll take the Road King AND one of them Triples!!!\""}, {"response": 244, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (16:57)", "body": "I like your choices Shane! ;-) Have a cool Yule!"}, {"response": 245, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "Have to add my $.02. Letting someone else use your motorcycle (even for a short ride) is risky at best. I believe Shane's advice to be sound. Earlier this year, a long time friend of mine took one of my bikes for a test ride as a prelude to buying the bike. He has been riding bikes for over 10 years. He dumped my 83 Seca Turbo (which is nearly impossible to find parts for) and then had the audacity to tell me it fell over on the kickstand. The paint was scraped up and one of the turn signal lenses br ke. Said he would pay for the damage but checked out the \"excuse book\" instead. Needless to say, we are now ex-friends. It turns out the guy is a real deadbeat. Know anyone that wants to buy a scraped up Seca Turbo? By the way, the police chief in our town told me I was responsible for the damages and that if the individual would have been hurt--he could have sued me/my insurance company big time. Hoop"}, {"response": 246, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "I agree Hoop (is that a first? --grin--). I've loaned my bike out and been burned THREE times. I'm nothing if not stupid. My brother wrecked my low miles, never wrecked, looked like new '83 Nighthawk. But now that I think about it, he wasn't supposed to be on the bike. He replaced almost everything, but I couldn't bring myself to ask him to cough up the bucks for the exhaust. Man, that exhaust was primo without a bit of rust or road rash. Damn."}, {"response": 247, "author": "leroy", "date": "Thu, Jan  8, 1998 (17:20)", "body": "I almost never let anyone ride my 'Wing. My son, who has a Ninja 1100 has ridden mine(he gets tired bum after a while and so we'll trade bikes ) the only other person who has ever ridden my bike is Kathryn (Kasey) and she rides it because that lady knows how to ride! If I don't let others ride and they figure they can't be my friend, thats OK with me because I still have the bike. If they ride it and wreck the bike, I don't have the bike or a friend. Leroy Pattison Non Carborundum Illegitimii! (Don't Let The Bastards Grind You Down!) '92 Goldwing SE (teal) 211,000+ on the odometer Cascade Classic Bun Burner 1500 motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 15, "subject": "Honda", "response_count": 88, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (17:25)", "body": "My good friend Albert Mayer (pelles@spring.com) is gettin' himself a Valkyrie tonight. Anyone heard of this?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (17:47)", "body": "You mean anyone heard of someone gettin' a Valkyrie or the Valkyrie itself? Juuust kidding! The Valkyrie is the ultimate cruiser of the day IMHO. Just have to get all that mass moving without dropping it on yer leg, then SWOOSH..smooth power 'till the next state, or galaxy."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "Honda's website was only about cars, the last time I looked. Anyway, Honda has a comprehensive lineup, from beginner bikes such as the Nighthawk 250 and Rebel 250 to behemoths like the GoldWing and the Valkyrie. In between, they have the Nighthawk 750 standard, the CBR600F3, VFR800, CBR900RR, VTR1000, CBR1100XX and RC45 sport bikes, the PC800 Pacific Coast and ST1100 touring bikes, the Shadow and Shadow ACE cruisers and the XT range of Dual Purpose (D-P) bikes. I have not included their pure dirtbikes, because I only consider road vehicles."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (18:09)", "body": "EEK! I forgot the Magna 750 hot-rod cruiser!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (21:55)", "body": "Yeah, I'd say (and you old XRoaders are sick of hearing it) that Honda makes the best internal combustion machinery on the face of the earth. They have the smoothest, most well engineered and well thought out, most reliable and generally best machinery on the face of the earth. I don't know how they do that. Having said that I've owned 6 bikes, 4 of which were Hondas. Which was the most reliable? My lil' ol' Ninja 600, now parked mournfully in a snow bank (just kidding)."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (23:35)", "body": "I'll have a report and an eyewitness account of Albert Mayer's new Honda Vaklyrie tomorrow. Rain or shine, he's riding it to work."}, {"response": 7, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (00:23)", "body": "Hee. I don't blame him. Yep, be sure to check it out. It's quite a site."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (08:20)", "body": "Surprised you feel that the Ninja has been the most reliable compared with the Hondas, Jon. I'd be hard pressed to point at which of \"the Four\" is most reliable, I think they're all amazing. Terry, I'm curious: Is Mr. Mayer a big guy, and what other bike(s) has he owned?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (08:26)", "body": "He's a very small guy and this is his first bike. I hope to take a picture of this monumental event (for Albert) today. Albert is a computer dweeb, a very likeable and bright programmer and this may be his first time on a bike. I hope he shows up here someday to share his views first hand."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (10:29)", "body": "This Mr. Meyer is starting on a Valkyrie?!? EEK! I hope he can handle the mass! Did he ride bicycles before? I, for one, will be starting on a 1987 Honda CM200T TwinStar, partly because I can't afford anything else, partly because I wanted that particular bike from the first time I saw it and I thought that it was a shame to have it sitting down for so long (it had crashed and my employers had got a new dispatch bike, which has since crashed and been replaced!) I was almost finished fixing it when I came to M\ufffdxico (actually, I had given up on fixing it and was going to take it to the mechanic and have it fixed! If I had the money to start on a new bike, I'd probably go for a Nighthawk 250 (standard), a Rebel 250 (cruiser) or a Virago 250 (Yamaha cruiser). I'm partial to the Honda 250s because they've got similar engines (50cc bigger) to my TwinStar. The Rebel is a beautiful bike; there are tons of them here in Quer\ufffdtaro and quite a few in Jamaica. The Virago 250 also looks good, but the V-Twin spoils it, IMO. I prefer parallel twins, myself."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (10:30)", "body": "Yeah me too, since that's a LOT of bike for a \"small\" new guy! If your gonna cruise, cruise big, I say, but that's a big honker!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (13:31)", "body": "Yeah, but if you're going to start on a 700 pound bike, that's the one. My GL1200 felt like it weighed half of what it actually did. As far as big machines go, they're very forgiving and easy to ride. I'm assuming the Valk is the same. All I can say about El Ninja is that it's never broken down, never needed parts, etc. My Nighthawks had problems with stators and electrical. My GL didn't have any significant problems either, though. The VTR250 jumped out of first gear occasionally when you gassed it (usually with a big truck accelerating behind you). Like I said, the Ninja has just worked. Of course, it is the newest and lowest mileage bike I've owned."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (13:53)", "body": "I just checked the \"First Bike\" topic and I realized that Jon hasn't told us what his first bike was. It wasn't the GoldWing, was it? Terry, didn't you suggest to Meyer that he should probably start on a 90cc bike? Then again, I don't think anyone sells a street-legal 90 in the U.S. anymore. If he finds that the Valkyrie is too much for him, suggest a Rebel."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (14:33)", "body": "My advice to anyone who's committed to the sport is Buy as Much as you can Afford, and learn to ride it properly. Those with any common sense, and being new riders, generally stay away from ZX11s and such. This may be changing a little, since many new riders have the bucks to buy 916s if they choose. Hey i wouldn't *tell* anyone what to pick, but a 1st-timer on a Valk will have a lot to learn/think about, no?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (15:11)", "body": "> a 1st-timer on a Valk will have a lot to learn/think about, no? Especially if he's never ridden a bicycle either! Has Mr. Meyers ever ridden a bicycle?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (22:13)", "body": "Turns out he's very experienced and he popped down $17k for this bike. That includes the helmet (not a Bell), gloves, leather jacket, and six pipes (they're louder than the stock issue), it's an awesome looking bike. It weighs about 700+ pounds and Albert weights about 165. He didn't get side bags, electronics, or any extras other than the pipes. The tires are huge. The radiators pretty good sized. And it only has a kickstand, no center stand. He got it in all black because they didn't have red. So he may get it painted later."}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (22:20)", "body": ""}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (22:28)", "body": "So that's Albert driving home after a hard day's work where he couldn't wait to hop on this awesome machine. You can kind of see the 3 pipe arrangement on the side and the massive engine and radiator. I like the design of those instruments and that sqaure thing just under the mirror is the brake fluid resevoir with a little window so you can check your level. Who knows? Albert might be cruising up and down sixth street as we speak. John Arisco and Rick (of \"Click there it is\" fame) were marveling at this monster machine earlier. Rick lifted it off the kickstand while Albert watched nervously and John speculated on getting one himself, halfway seriously."}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (22:59)", "body": "For another view of Albert's bike, check out http://www.spring.com and again apologies for putting it out that Albert might have been a first timer, we got the whole scoop today!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (09:55)", "body": "So we can look forward to hearing about Albert's experiences on the Valk, and on his previous (& other current?) bikes! I guess that a Valkyrie has to have pull-back handlebars, otherwise people would have a hard time reaching for them!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (10:29)", "body": "I'm trying to get him online!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (11:04)", "body": "Looks real good in black, shows off that great motor. I've not heard a valkyrie with aftermarket pipes personally, so that must be pretty interesting! Best of luck!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "Man, that thing blasts off! 0-60 in about 3 secs."}, {"response": 24, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (14:04)", "body": "Want to see a very high performance Valkyrie? Check out http://www.twobros.com/"}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (15:46)", "body": "Nitrous injectors and blowers."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (16:08)", "body": "O.K., 1500 cc, nitrous & blowers! And a road at least 20 km long and straight! That thing should be confined to Bonneville! Or at least only be allowed to commute between Bonneville and Black Rock!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "Yeah....think of it...."}, {"response": 28, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (17:40)", "body": "Wait a second. I think I missed something. A stock Valk can't get to 60 in 3 seconds (pretty close, but I think three is wishful thinking). Is this your friend's Valk? It has nitrous and blowers? What did I miss here?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (21:52)", "body": "My thing about nitrous and blowers should have had a question mark after it. It was a question about what might be on the above referenced website. twobros. Didn't mean to get folks worked up, and I seem to recollect Albert saying that his bike could go from 0 to 60 in 3 seconds, but I could have heard him wrong. It does seem to get up and go."}, {"response": 30, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (22:27)", "body": "Oh, it's fast, and perhaps I'm mistaken. I'm sure it feels like 3 seconds! ;-) And like I said, even if it isn't, it's probably close. Wait a second..... Well, I looked through some back issues of various mags and found nothing. They usually don't list 0-60 times anyway. Hmm. I'm curious--I may have misspoken. The reason I'd assume it's not capable of a 3 second 0-60 time in stock trim is the fact that it weighs about 700 pounds and puts out \"only\" 100 horses. Most 400 pound, 120 horse machines have 3 second 0-60s. But I could be wrong."}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 31, 1997 (00:09)", "body": "I could be wrong too, it's all heresay. Maybe I should measure out 60 yards in the street and see what it takes Albert to traverse this."}, {"response": 32, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Oct 31, 1997 (02:52)", "body": "Yeah, getting the ol' 0-60 time yourself is a pain. It's hard to operate a stop watch while hanging on for dear life! ;-)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Oct 31, 1997 (10:23)", "body": "That's 0 - 60 yards , not 0 - 60 mph! Terry, do you have any cop friends, who can get their hands on a radar gun?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 31, 1997 (14:01)", "body": "I know a programmer that works at dps. That's about all my cop friends."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Oct 31, 1997 (14:43)", "body": "Well, there goes the radar gun plan. I think the bike magazines use a radar gun, or an on-board computer with links to sensors on the wheel."}, {"response": 36, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Oct 31, 1997 (16:10)", "body": "It's a radar gun. But Cycle World uses said radar gun to do top speed tests on public roads . I'm sorry, but this is lunacy (no matter how deserted the road is) and is not safe for the rider or others on the road. I've lived in a pretty desolate part of West Texas and have done a few high speed blasts on deserted roads, but I can assure you that I wouldn't feel safe on any public highway at 180 mph."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Shane", "date": "Mon, Nov  3, 1997 (17:24)", "body": "But we came damn close a couple of times Jon... hehehe...."}, {"response": 38, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (01:24)", "body": "Hey, Shane, you must have me confused with Chuck . He's the speed demon with a 150 MPH top speed....."}, {"response": 39, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (12:59)", "body": "Only once, and only once, did I push my 305 past 100 mph. I remember that!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (14:13)", "body": "I bet you remember that! I got my Nighthawk 650 up to 105-110 a couple of times, but because of the lack of fairing, it was a terrifying, shaking, all over the highway, hanging on for dear life experience. I've had Senor Ninja up to 120 or so, and even got my VTR250 up to 100 (it was much better behaved at its maximum speed of 100 than the Nighthawk was because it had a fairing)."}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (15:49)", "body": "Albert ran out of gas on the freeway. Well, at least he knows how much gas it takes now. 5.3 gals."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (16:31)", "body": "You mean that behemoth has no fuel gauge?! Did he push it or leave it and come back? Bummer."}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (17:03)", "body": "He has to push it *past* and onramp and then off on an exit ramp, where he called a cab from a phone booth and went on a quest for gas. He had to do a bit of work there. A behemoth without a gas guage!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Shane", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (18:32)", "body": "I was sure it was you and I and Chuck out rodding around west of town one day but I could be wrong... Maybe Chuck and I and ? (a ghost rider)... LOL So far the Wing has done 145 with the wife on the back.... Not too shabby.. and Smmooootttttthhhhhh... hehehe"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Shane", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (18:33)", "body": "NOPE JUST REMEMBERED!!! It was going up to Robert Lee... Me, Chuck and some guy on a Triumph Trophy..... (They say the mind is a terrible thing to waste..) LOL"}, {"response": 46, "author": "silverwing", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (00:10)", "body": "If you really want to see some Valkyries decked out, check out Motorcycle Cruiser. They supercharged one and customized another. I must confess that I have a secret lust for one of those bikes, even though I am quite happy with my Voyager. I just love that engine. And it's such a torquey bike. I understand that it will idle at 15mph in 5th and still accelerate without changing the gears. I must get a test ride one of these days...."}, {"response": 47, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (14:32)", "body": "Is Motorcycle Cruiser a magazine?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "silverwing", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (19:13)", "body": "Sure is. It's a competitor of BLVD magazine. Both are very good in talking about the odds and ends of the cruiser lifestyle and bikes. You can contact MC at 800-234-6981. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. Jim."}, {"response": 49, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (22:30)", "body": "I saw it tonight at Half Price Books. That Valkyrie got 1st and 2nd in two polls for cruiser of the year."}, {"response": 50, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "I had a 1964 Honda 160, which was a great dirt bike. What is today's equivalent of this? Or do I have look for a used 64 Honda 160 to get this kind of performance?"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Shane", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (16:28)", "body": "Anything in a Dirt Bike is going to out perform a 64 Honda. Innovations in the dirt arena have been fast and plentiful since the late 70's. Just go get ya some recommendations from dirt riders and then get riding.... Personally I have always wanted to find an old (mid 70's) KE model Kawasaki, but this is more nostalgia driven than performance. Recent trips to the cycle shop has shown me that dual sport bikes have been the latest bunch to go through some growth and remodeling... One should be able to find a bike that can be fun on both the street as well as the dirt.... Shane"}, {"response": 52, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (16:56)", "body": "Actually, in some people's opinions, the dirt bikes have gotten too hight tech too fast and are too narrow focus these days. I'm no expert, but there are some deadly serious dirt machines out there--strap on a number plate and go racing. There are, however, some nicer, bigger, less racing/performance oriented machines out there, especially some of the Kawi dual sports."}, {"response": 53, "author": "yves", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (03:21)", "body": "Is always depend on what you'll do with it. If you only ride on soft dry places, a dual is ok. If you plan to get in deep mud, the tires on dual won't do the job and you can't put trail tires for road riding (quickly worn out). If you want a powerfull bike in hard condition, an enduro type will be the good one (low end power,and stronger chassis than motocross). If you want speed, power then high tech low weight motocross are the way. But I think that motocross and recents enduro are brittle cause there p shed at max of performace (technicaly). I'm still looking at dual and if I get one it will be a 350cc. Not too much heavy, and enought power to have a decent speed on road (and I'll have 2 sets of tires). Yves"}, {"response": 54, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Nov 15, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "There was a Kawi 600 Dual Sport at the Cycle Plex when I was there the other day... Very interesting machine... Had a lot of the 4wheeler type add-ons, Tank type gun rack, Tail Rack, and something resembling Saddle Bags.... Looked like it could satisfy a number of uses and that it could be REALLY customized to an individual rider.... The only thing I didn't like was that sucker was TALL.... (sucks to be short) hehehe... It did look like it could be tuned down a bit suspension wise..."}, {"response": 55, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 16, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "Name the top 5 Hondas in order of best to lesser. Please, someone. Can be any year, don't have to be current models. My list: 1. Honda Valkyrie (new) 2. Honda 160 dirt bike (old) 3. Honda 305 (old) 4. Honda 350 (old) 5. Honda 90 (old)"}, {"response": 56, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (00:59)", "body": "Tough call. Hmm. 1. '70s CB750 2. CB650SC and CB700SC--the 650 and 700 Nighthawks 3. GL1200 Standard 4. GL1500 (you can't deny it--it is an influential model) 5. Honda 305 (it was a ground breaker in its day)"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (10:04)", "body": "Honda \"Scrambler\" model-got everyone to pay attention. CB750 GL1200 CBX VFR750 All street bikes that IMO caused the rest of motorcycling to wake up, and are still valued as such today."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (12:20)", "body": "How about the Nifty Thrifty Honda 50? It got the whole ball rolling! Outside of that, I'll take Frank's list. Ground breakers all. Honda people are sooooo nice! hehe"}, {"response": 59, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (12:23)", "body": "Hey, I forgot about the VFR. Shame on me!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (12:25)", "body": "Honda people are sooooo nice! hehe Yeah, what should another bike company's moto be? You meet the biggest @#$holes on Kawi? (Big grin)"}, {"response": 61, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (13:05)", "body": "That wouldn't sell many bikes, Jon. But cute, sounds like a groovy political slogan."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (14:13)", "body": "Hey we could have a ball with this! With the aside that there's no intentional dissing. It's not the brand, but the type of bike..."}, {"response": 63, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (01:37)", "body": "I agree with the C50 being on the list. I think they've increased the capacity by a whopping 80% and called it the C90... Have been a Nighthawk fan from the start, and, of course, my personal bias is toward the 200s and 250s like my Twinstar, the Nighthawk 250, and the Rebel 250. BMW riders are so cool, they keep their beer in their pockets! (How's that for ribbing?)"}, {"response": 64, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (23:10)", "body": "HEY!!, I've rode Kawi's for ever... What you tryin' to say there Jon?? (I refuse to post further on the grounds that it may incriminate me hehehe) Shane..."}, {"response": 65, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (03:00)", "body": "I think you know what I'm trying to say, Shane. In fact, it was aimed directly at you ! (Grin)"}, {"response": 66, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Nov 23, 1997 (19:53)", "body": "Humm, let's see: 1. VF and VFR series 2. CB750 series 3. Goldwing series 4. CBR series 5. PC800 6. VTR1000 Heck all the rest are great bikes, Honda is without a doubt the BEST of the Japanese bikes! Tailwinds BJ"}, {"response": 67, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov 23, 1997 (23:59)", "body": "Then that, IM NS HO, makes them the best of motorcycling. They do make fantastic machinery."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (05:22)", "body": "This from a Triumph fanatic!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (13:55)", "body": "Hey, sometimes you have \"well made\" and sometimes you have \"soulful\". Gee, who am I starting to sound like????? Aaaaaargh!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (15:11)", "body": "I've never owned a Honda, and I've ridden a few Triumphs more than Hondas. They are the best mass-produced motorcycles in the world. But by the looks of the new VFR800 I'm waiting for the day when you key a Honda and hear a mellifluous female voice: \"Ignition..on\" or \"Ignition..off\" if you get my drift."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (17:49)", "body": "Frank, LOL. \"I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you start this motorcycle.\" hehe Jon said \"Hey, sometimes you have \"well made\" and sometimes you have \"soulful\". And when you ride a Harley \"sometimes\" you have both! hehe"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (18:45)", "body": "...and sometimes you don't! Brad's style, Marc's sentiment! heehee (my spelling of heehee!)"}, {"response": 73, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (00:32)", "body": "Hey, no offense Brad, and HD's quality has vastly improved, buuuuut the quality of a HD just doesn't compare to the quality of a Honda. And, to be honest, the quality of even a Mercedes Benz (a well made and expensive car, no doubt) isn't as high as the quality of an Accord. And the quality of a Snapper Lawnmower just isn't up to the level of near perfection that a Honda lawnmower is. I know some may not agree, but Honda has perfected the science of making extremely good internal combustion machinery. Harley may have, however, perfected the art of building bikes, but I don't think many would disagree that in terms of build quality, reliability and low (no?) maintenence, nothing approaches a Honda. Just change the timing belt, oil and add gas. Boring? Maybe, but then some people like that. I'm the one looking at buying a Triumph, so don't worry Brad--you're preaching to the choir!"}, {"response": 74, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (07:33)", "body": "Cagers might talk about Toyota, but..."}, {"response": 75, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (09:45)", "body": "Hee, I know, I know. But if you measure quality as customer satisfaction, I think Harley is right up there at the top with Honda, Mercedes, or anyone else. In fact, the waiting list and the price inflation would indicate that buyers \"value\" Harleys more than any other bike on the market. I value your qualities! hehe"}, {"response": 76, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (10:21)", "body": "When you put MB down on Honda, I said Hmmmm. The Honda *is* cheaper, OK. But when you said Honda's better than SNAPPER I had to respond! The Snapper's made of all steel, the Honda's plastic. For the same 2G's you get a mower that'll last for years and years, when folks have sold their Hondas in pennysaver. And that Snapper Red color makes a better background for the \"Moto Guzzi\" wing decal. How can you beat that?! (o;}"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (11:27)", "body": "My dad had a Snapper rider mower that was still running perfectly after 10 years of hard use (2 acres mowed every other week). Given the fact that 3 kids did a lot of \"racing\" on that puppy before, during, and after cutting the grass, and the fact that the oil was changed once a year, I think it did everything you could have asked of it. It even had a \"quick detachable\" catch bag. hehe Cut that grass boys and make it Snappy!"}, {"response": 78, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (12:07)", "body": "(I know, off topic): My Snapper rider is at least 10, I bought it used in keeping with my motor philosophy. I acre give or take, twice a week in summer. Also a tribute to the other Company, Briggs & Stratton."}, {"response": 79, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (13:24)", "body": "You're right--Snappers are nice. I was thinking in terms of the engine. Those Honda engines are works of art (science?). You're probably right--overall the Snapper probably is tougher. What engines do Snappers use?"}, {"response": 80, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (13:25)", "body": "Never mind, I just saw your message. I've had B&S on every lawnmower I've ever used--I still say Honda makes a better lawnmower engine, generator, etc."}, {"response": 81, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:57)", "body": "Like I said before as far a Japanese bikes go, HONDA is the best overall and though H-D's may be more \"popular\" in the USA, \"Worldwide\" Honda is far ahead of Harley! Sometimes we Amercian's think the world revolves around us, \"NOT\". I saw a model of Honda that we can't get that is lovely to the eye, it's called a Rever, it's a slightly streached 650 Hawk (V-twin, water-cooled) bike with \"aero ST1100 style bodywork (fairing and intergrated luggage), I'd kill for that bike, it's perfect in everyway but it won't sell in the USA becuse we all have to have \"large displacement\" bikes! Even though it'd probably eat a Big Twin or a USA version CB750 Nighthawk for lunch. Sometimes I wish we had more exceptance of things like the Europeans, I et Frank knows what Iam talking about. Everything has to be BIG, that's why of all the Harley's I like the Sportsters the best but the old style, slow ass big twin\" get's all the glory here in the US. Idoubt we will ever have as much \"class\" as the European's no wonder they think were crude moron's! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 82, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (13:23)", "body": "The Revere is also shaft drive, BJ. Great machine, but I wonder if they did anything about the total lack of HP that the Hawk suffered from. Less than 40 horses! And they wonder why it doesn't sell.... And yeah, I agree--the Europeans seem to have crummy taste (only my opinion, of course) in several areas, but they've got us whipped in terms of bikes, cheese, wine, hmm. Maybe they *do* have better tastes than us! (Grin)"}, {"response": 83, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "Sorry for the sermon guys but as much as I like Harley Sportster's even I have to admit that they are not up to what the Master Jap, ie: Honda, can manafacture. Harley only mfgs. 2-engine styles, Honda does dozens! I mean twins, inline 4's,V-4's,opposed 6 cylinder! It truely amazes me that a company that started as a \"piston ring mfg'er\" has come so far in only a mere \"50 years\"! Yes, Harley is working on 100 very soon but it's more style than substance. One day we will see the end of the Air Cooled, push od V-Twin and will H-D be able to survive without that engine style, who knows but Iam sure that HONDA will continue, IMHO. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "Between the piston rings and the motorbikes, there was a time when Honda made nothing (factory bombed flat...)"}, {"response": 85, "author": "jammie", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (18:33)", "body": "What happened to our tech group. I love those techie questions and answers. A friend just bought a Honda V45, l983 in great shape. A real muscle bike. Could I have some thoughts on this bike, problems, advantages etc. The display panel is faulty, otherwise everything seemed fine. Thanks."}, {"response": 86, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (18:38)", "body": "Three words--\"Cam Chain Tensioner\". They're all bad on the early V-45s, but can be refitted by a competent Honda mechanic to use the newer tensioners. I don't know if I've ever seen an early 80s V-45 that didn't rattle."}, {"response": 87, "author": "Nighthawk750", "date": "Sun, Jun 10, 2001 (13:26)", "body": "The Valkyries are amazingly designed, beautiful machines made for cruising but not bogged down with all of the common features of a car like the Gold Wing. Gold Wings are designed for retired old men who can't escape the bells and wistles and comforts of a car, such as a drink holder. Biking should be a passion, not just transportation."}, {"response": 88, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jun 10, 2001 (14:03)", "body": "YOu answered my question in topic 4! motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 18, "subject": "these boots are made for bikin'", "response_count": 91, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "This topic can include clothes and apparel as well!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "I'm partial to basics: A traditional \"Euro\" style plain leather jacket that's been with me for years, jeans or cords, and I use a pair of plain German surplus police cycle boots (flat rubbered sole, 18\", steel inserts). Also a pair of bullhide Noconas when I'm not racing around, just for going on short jaunts and meets, etc. Yes, I'd love a 1 piecer, but I don't ride every day anymore, and changing in & out of the full gear became a pain. I'm looking at RoadGear's Montana outfit more lately. I'm one of th few I know here who gears up for pretty much any ride, never short sleeved or shorts, etc. A must."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (12:10)", "body": "My friend Albert (the guy with the Vaklyrie) is looking for some motorcycle boots, what do folks recommend."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (12:24)", "body": "Topic 16 of 18: 'small is beautiful' Response 25 of 25: Albert Mayer (pelles) Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (11:13) 8 lines I just bought my Valkyrie a couple of weeks ago and i noticed that it's starting to get a little cold out side now. I have a really nice jacket helmet and gloves but no boots. I took a look at a bunch of cruiser boots and even racing boots but didn't find any that I liked so I was wandering if anyone knew about a place where I can get custom boots made. I live in Austin so it would be convenient if I could find such a place locally but I would be will to go out of Austin to get what I want."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (12:25)", "body": "I moved the above post to here because Albert posted it in the wrong spot inadvertently."}, {"response": 6, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "For general use I use a pair of high(ish) Caterpillar boots, they are reasonably waterproof and comfortable. the only problem with them is that the \"comando style\" soles eat foot rest rubbers, but that I can live with 'cos they stick to the ground in the wet! Several friends run either Doc Martins, or Para boots. none of there are particularly pretty, but work well"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Ed", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (20:28)", "body": "I personally have stuck with plain ole' \"engineer\" boots for about a million years. When they need it, I get them resoled. I smear lots of mink oil on them at the end of every summer, 'cuz it starts to get wet around here then. I do use Spenco insoles, which I spent more time researching than the boot I should wear. I have plenty of room for two light pair of socks in the winter when it is cold, and room at the top for, ... well...whatever one would want to carry in the top of one's boots. Plenty com ortable to walk around in. If you go on the road with boots, take something else to slip on your feet at nights...gives the boots a chance to dry out. Summertime distance riding can be tough on the inside of your footgear. Ed"}, {"response": 8, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (01:27)", "body": "I agree, Ed. My Wolverines (aren't ya'll sick of hearing me preaching?) have soles that stick like glue, but are still comfortable and long lasting."}, {"response": 9, "author": "yves", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (03:46)", "body": "Jon I take good notes, but in cold condition the metal caps aren't they transmiting the coldness?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (03:53)", "body": "Hee. Nah, mine are pretty heavily insulated--with a flannel lining, in fact. Your toes (in my opinion) shouldn't touch the toes much on a good fitting pair of boots."}, {"response": 11, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (03:55)", "body": "I don't know if this is the case or not, but I feel safer with my toes incased in steel. If it can protect your feet from dropping a 500 pound piece of pipe on 'em (I have a friend who's had this experience working in the oil field), surely it'll help if you lay the bike over on 'em."}, {"response": 12, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (03:59)", "body": "Oops, I just posted in a prior thread about my new Cabella's Wellington boots. I'll wait til tomorrow or so when they're delivered to tell ya how comfortable they are. Thinsulate lined and Gore-Tex booty..warm and dry."}, {"response": 13, "author": "yves", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (04:02)", "body": "500 pounds is a heavy poin of view I agree. And works boots are oil resistant and have generaly good grip. I'll think about it."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (11:06)", "body": "I've always worn hightop hunting boots. They are oil resistant, thinsulate lined, waterproof, and priced under $100. Recently, I read Motorcycle Online's review of the HD lace/zipper boots. They are pricey at $165, but they are very nice boots. They come either steel toe, or without. Read the review and judge for yourself. One thing is certain--riding with anything but a sturdy boot is asking for trouble. I see more guys wearing sneakers than anything else--really foolish. They don't resist oil like a good boot, they allow your ankle to roll over, they aren't waterproof, and they don't offer any protection from road debris or in an accident. Really amazes me how some folks will pay $500 for a full graphics repli-helmet, and then spank on some shorts and a wornout pair of sneakers. Ya gotta wonder! My Nike Dumboys really match my bike perfectly, don't ya think? hehe"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (11:29)", "body": "I agree Brad. My 1st pair of riding boots were Sears 16\" engineers, i don't know if they still make 'em (mine were stolen). The steel caps at heel and toe help during many rides on the Isle of Man-hattan. there are several makes of dedicated boots in similar styles now, i feel it's well worth the smallish investment, they should last as long as you ride. I suggested the lo-boots to Sam because of climate and (probable?) riding style. The Motoport Miamis offer more support than I thought. About $80. Sometimes a good boot down there is all you need to get going! (God, it's cactching, Brad!)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (11:43)", "body": "(God, it's catching, Brad!) Like a disease baby, without any cure! hehe"}, {"response": 17, "author": "TRA", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "The boots that I use now I bought in 1972 from Top Gear the accessory arm of Triumph/BSA.They were made in England by Ashmans and have steel toe and steel shank(for kick starting).I have replaced on zipper(full length for rear entry) but the soles are still good tho starting to get worn.I paid $110.00 for these boots in 1972 so I think that I really got a good deal 25 years later.Whatever you buy it pays to get the best you can.If I were buying today I would look at Westcoast Shoe company.1-800-326-2711.PO box 607 Scappoose,OR 97056-0607. They have a great line of shoes and boots for work and motorcycling and will buid to your order.Price is up there but I think the value is also."}, {"response": 18, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (14:47)", "body": "One problem with steel toed boots is getting through the airport security...."}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (15:57)", "body": "transplant alert: Topic 13 of 18: 'staying safe' Response 98 of 98: Shane Adams (Shane) Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (14:48) 1 lines Prefer a stiff Hiking Boot........ Not the old brown bombs that weighed a ton but the new ones that they have are almost like a tennis shoe... Lots of ankle support, they are a leather and nylon mix, and they provide great traction, most of all they're comfortable...."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (01:16)", "body": "Sometimes a good boot down there is all you need to get going! (God, it's cactching, Brad!) Now you know how it feels, Frank!\\ I am one of those poor, unwashed sods who wears (or wore) sneakers on a bike. I havew worn workboots and I ask this: How in the blue blazes do you shift gears in steel-capped workboots? As far as I know, shifting gears requires a sure but sensetive touch, neither of which is provided by a foot shod in engineering work boots."}, {"response": 21, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (01:50)", "body": "Sure, sure. Sensitive? Heck no. Besides, my Wolverines are as soft and pliable as an old pair of slippers--very comfortable and very nice on a motorcycle."}, {"response": 22, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (09:32)", "body": "Y'know Sam, you can adjust the angle of the shift lever on every bike, as far as I know. Just move the angle up a little to fit the lever just at the top of your boot-toe. You get used to the slight bulky feel of engineer style boots pretty easily. 'Course the *cruiser* guys have those \"forward\" rocker shifters, so the don't have to worry about that."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (09:42)", "body": "Ah, the beauty of heal-toe. Just a little tap will do ya. Once you're used to it, it's terrific. Saves the top of your boot, to boot! I don't know if we can trust Blob--I've heard he's a real shiftless character! hehe"}, {"response": 24, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "I hate heel and toe cuz I have to lift my whole foot up to get to it. A standard foot peg and shifter are much better, in my opinion."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (10:45)", "body": "Why lift your whole foot? On my King, I simply set the front and back pegs about one inch off the floorboard. All I have to do is pivot my foot and bang! I tell ya, the top of my left foot never felt so good! I have noticed that the heal/toe shifters on some of the Japanese cruisers are not adjustable. I also know that shifting a Japanese bike and a Harley are two entirely different matters. Japanese bikes shift like a hot knife in butter--click, click. When you shift a Harley, you feel it baby. As far as peg versus floorboard, I find on a long trip that rubber-mounted floorboards are a foot saver. Much less vibration and fatigue, and no sore spot on my arch. For me, it was definately a shift in the right direction"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Shane", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "I have to agree with Brad... I never thought I would like the Heel/Toe shifter but for me once I got used to the concept it was actually more efficient than the toe shifter. Less foot travel going back and forth between up and down shifting. Brad, I may have an oddball but shifting the Wing (it's an '84) is a long ways from a Knife through hot butter... Not as clunky as the Harley but close......"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "Y'know the Harleys are clunky but an older BMW or Guzzi clunks and wiggles. That's always been pretty weird to me. I guess due to the physics of the shaft drives. The Harley \"clunk\" is just solid machined parts doing their jobs, as far as I'm concerned."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (17:29)", "body": "That's interesting Shane. It seems that on Harleys it has a lot to do with the lack of tension on the primary chain, which is why some folks install the M6 Chain Tensioner. I really don't mind the thunk--it feels meaty! But, I'd rather tap it down than smack up my toe! Just like learning to walk--heal toe, heal toe, heal toe! hehe"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Shane", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "Hmmmm, Maybe I best be checking Shaft Splines and etc... This is where I could use some advice......."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (20:42)", "body": "I will probably have the best opportunity to adjust the shifter: I need to replace my gearshift shaft. But my Goodyear size 14 work boots are far too bulky and cumbersome to fit under the pedal. Besides, the soles are broken straight through, and I now wear size 15 shoes (these are American sizes)."}, {"response": 31, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Fri, Nov 14, 1997 (04:32)", "body": "All the time I thought your name was Sam, and now I find out its Big Foot . Just got my new Cabella's Wellingtons. Man are they comfortable and warm. The 400gm Thinsulate lining is toasty and they've got a Gore-Tex booty. Paid a tidy sum of $154, including shipping..but they're worth it. I wore tall hunting boots like Brad, but got tired of lacing em up..plus I don't want to wear em out for hunting (went pheasant hunting last weekend and had a big feast Saturday night). I've not gotten used to the heel/toe shifter, but made it a point yesterday to use the heel part. I'm kinda like Jon in that I don't like lifting my heel, though I could adjust it a little better. Been thinking of replacing it with a toe shifter only, as it would give me more room for my foot. I like sliding my right foot back some, but can't do that with the left foot (which would be nice when hot roddin in the corners..if you can do that on a Star). Not meaning to get off-subject, but I just got thru playing with Netscape's Page Composer and put the start of a web page up. It's basically screwing around cause I don't get my scanner til next week when I can get more pics up. Check it out at http://www.mindsync.com/royalstar . Like I said, it's just a start and I'll be revamping it when I get the time and the scanner."}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 14, 1997 (06:20)", "body": "We'll check out that cool page of yours k man. I think the ultimate bike boots may be the new Ecco hiking boots, they're $250 (full list) but they are the world's ultimate shoe. I tried on a pair and they fit like a glove on my feet. They're heavily padded, very flexible, yet very supportive of the whole foot. Any thoughts on hiking boots as bikewear?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Nov 14, 1997 (11:56)", "body": "Hiking boots work very well as they support (and cover) your ankle and won't come off in the even of a mishap. Like I said--I wouldn't wear my Rockports because I didn't want to wear out a $120 pair of hiking shoes, and riding on the pavement alot means lots of wear, tear, oil, etc."}, {"response": 34, "author": "jammie", "date": "Fri, Nov 14, 1997 (20:54)", "body": "Will recommend SIDI motorcycle boots. Seven inches tall, easy to put on velcro strips. Very roomy and comfortable. Nice, low toe for shifting. About $120 in catalogs. Not insulated, but heavy socks should do the trick in winter."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Nov 15, 1997 (12:02)", "body": "I like SIDI also, and looked at the Gaerne's. Trouble is if you wear 'em all the time they wear out fairly quickly."}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 16, 1997 (23:49)", "body": "OK, after all this is said, who has the best boots here?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (01:01)", "body": "Do you think there's an answer to that question, Terry? I'd say \"mine\", but there are plenty of dissenting opinions."}, {"response": 38, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (01:05)", "body": "And anyone who disagrees with me will be tied up with piano wire!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (10:09)", "body": "Some wear 'em just for style first, some just for comfort, some wear 'em only for short rides (Sidi), some wear 'em all day. It's tough. I findboots to be the most comfortable footwear, but remember well the weirdo glances I got when someone spotted them as I was on my way to the copy machine at work, etc. Corbin and the above-mentioned Western Footgear Co. get my foot-I-mean-vote presently."}, {"response": 40, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (11:07)", "body": "SIDI makes motorcycle boots? They are certainly a premier cyclist shoe manufacturer."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "Never knew that! Always used Adidas for my bicyclin'! Sidi used to be a coveted boot for motorcycle sport-tourers, but now has stiff competition everywhere. They still make good boots don't get me wrong, especially for those who prefer a plain look to the multicolors of Alpinestars or (yugh) Bieffe."}, {"response": 42, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (12:09)", "body": "Cool. Yet another loose tether from my life to yours (and vice versa)."}, {"response": 43, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (12:28)", "body": "Fox also makes suspensions for these \"new\" suspended bicycles, as well as motorcycles."}, {"response": 44, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (13:06)", "body": "Don't know Fox. Do they market under another company?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (14:16)", "body": "What about Campagnolo? Big on both markets, no?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (12:26)", "body": "VERY big in road bike parts and groupos!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "I don't know if they still do motorcycle wheels, but I think so. And they used to make other bits, but concentrate chiefly on automobile wheels."}, {"response": 48, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (13:23)", "body": "Does Cannondale do anything with suspension for the motorized bikes?"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (13:57)", "body": "Nah. Just outrageously expensive bicycle stuff!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (15:04)", "body": "Do you have any boots, Stacey? What are they for?"}, {"response": 51, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (12:24)", "body": "Hiking boots, dress boots and those leather/chain thigh boots (for the weekends!)"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (13:04)", "body": "Ahhh, I get it now!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "*smile*"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Kasey", "date": "Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (21:31)", "body": "Whoa there, you all! I see a thread I can comment on and by the time I get to the bottom you've almost changed the subject - although those thigh-highs are still on topic...I think. MY favorite boots are Vancouver-made Daytons. The vamp is slanted forward to fit your leg in the riding position which makes for slightly awkward walking until you get used to it. It took awhile for the thick leather to break in, but now the boots are the most comfortable I've ever had. I paid a lot for them, almost $300 Can. ut they'll probably outlast me. Re floorboards - my old XS11 came with same and it was my first experience with a heel-toe shifter. While I loved the shifting I grew to hate the boards themselves. Always in the way when paddling the bike around....and when I dropped the bike a few times those floorboards are the first thing to hit your foot and break toes. Ask me how I know this. That's why I bought the Daytons."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "I agree Kathryn--those floorboards can do a number on your foot if the bike tips over. Every solution breeds new problems"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (15:24)", "body": "Well I just got a new catalog from http://www.sportsmansguide.com They list the plain German officers' boots I wear, now with a pebbled finish, for $19.97! If you want plain indestructible black that can be worn unobtrusively (in those \"concealed interest\" situations) please, check 'em out. 14\", flat hard rubber sole with grooves. They work for me. 1-800-888-5222"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (20:02)", "body": "14\"? Hmm...really should check it out! Very hard to get shoes my size (how wide is it?)"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (12:05)", "body": "Frank, how are they in the cold and wet conditions? My ten little HOGs need winter comfort!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (14:25)", "body": "In the cold I wear hunting socks, no problem. Had 'em in the rain once with no problem whatsoever, they're made for the field, but I melted wax into the seams twice just for sure. My engineer boots were toe-drafty until I did the same to them."}, {"response": 60, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (11:05)", "body": "For your feet try this, use two pairs of socks, inside next to skin use a pair of \"silk socks\", then cover them with nice thick \"wool socks\", (not cotton) and with good leather motorcycle boots (ie: no tie ups as wind can get in thru the shoe string holes), you will be quite surprized with how warm your feet stay! Tailwinds, BJ OBTW, what's the opinon on the best brand of long underwear, these cotton wal-mart specials are only so good even under full leather pants in 30 degree and less winter riding?? Comments? Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 61, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (11:13)", "body": "LOL. I've never seen \"OBTW\" before. That's pretty funny."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (11:52)", "body": "For comfort with more warm than you'd really expect silk long underwear beats the KMart/Sears cotton weave stuff. Available in camping outlets & outdoor equipment places about $40 a pair. They last long and the comfort is great."}, {"response": 63, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (13:19)", "body": "Frank is right. I think silk is just soooooo special, don't you? hehehe"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (14:31)", "body": "Well Yeth.... Uh, I mean YES! hehehe"}, {"response": 65, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (15:26)", "body": "Hey, what self-respecting tough biker is going to run around with silk underwear? Geez. What next, lace? ;-)"}, {"response": 66, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (15:43)", "body": "First, you don't go and announce it as you're ordering up the next round. Second, IT WORKS."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "Yes, Yes, Yes! ;-)"}, {"response": 68, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (21:55)", "body": "That is DEFINITELY one suggestion I am NOT gonna try! I'd BOIL!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (08:34)", "body": "Instead of long underwear, try Lycra running tights...less expensive than silk and works well; wicks moisture away (if there is any!). The key to any cold weather stuff is layering your clothing. I spent a total of 22 months in the Antarctic, including a winter over; consider myself somewhat of an expert in cold weather matters...instead of leather pants over long underwear, over your undergarment wear pants, then chaps over those. Three layers is better than two..it is the trapped air that insulat s. I ride year round, even on those 20 degree days, provided that the roads are dry...I base everything on 3 layers (not necessarily heavy)...the only thing that gets uncomfortable is my face, because I am not a fan of full face helmets. I do wear a balaclava on those coldest days for my face, but it isn't quite the same as 3 layers. Ed"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (12:12)", "body": "Wow Ed! \"Expert\"? More like \"god\" of cold weather! Curious as to what got you to the Antarctic region. I've found 3 layers works also, but not for too long. Maybe its my lack of body fat or just plain stamina. My knees & hands always feel it after about 60 miles."}, {"response": 71, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (12:29)", "body": "I agree, Ed. Back in Texas I rode year round. The coldest was a 14 degree day. I hadn't quite perfected the art of insulation, though, and was pretty dang chilly. I remember leaning over and putting my gloves on my Nighthawk's cylinder walls to try to keep them warm...."}, {"response": 72, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (13:18)", "body": "I spent most of my riding years in Nebraska.... That is about as close to the Artic Circle as you get next to North Dakota IMHO.... I rode as close to year around as possible (The Streets had to be dry so I could see the gravel) Layering is the only way to go. Bicycle Stretchies first, something knit second, and a GOOD WARM closed cell fabric (leather) jacket/ close stitched nylon snowmobile suit last.... Helmet is a must with some protection for the ears, and the warmest pair of GoreTex gloves you can g t your hands on... The looks you get are priceless... hehehe"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (13:45)", "body": "Shane, nice page, nice bike, attractive lady! Maybe AOL *can* help with homepages!"}, {"response": 74, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (22:54)", "body": "Okay, first off, AOL Sucks. But it was a place to start, that page was published with their publisher which I think sucks as bad as they do... I am working on another page while I play with that one that I will eventually put somewhere... Thanks for the Thumbs up on the Bike and The Lady, they both seem to not mind putting up with my DELETED.... Well, for the most part anyway.... Shane"}, {"response": 75, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (00:06)", "body": "Thanks guys, I will try the silks, ever try to find XXXL bicycle shorts?? I figure if some guy is looking up my pant leg under the black leather for my silks, Iam gona put a knot in that boys head anyway, ha ha! BJ"}, {"response": 76, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (03:37)", "body": "Hey, I probably shouldn't mention it, but I can't delete messages any more. I can only delete entire conferences....."}, {"response": 77, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (03:38)", "body": "No, but I guess that's a catch 22. You might not *need* XXXL anything if you could only get out and ride the bike more..... ;-)"}, {"response": 78, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "Re. deletion: Terry has the power to delete a user, and in so doing to delete every post he has ever submitted. This was why I was initially reluctant to join, because the rules said that this would happen at the first infringement, and I know that I came close to the edge at XRoads once, and that these rules appeared even stricter than Jon's! But it's the only game in town (until XRoads III comes along; any word, Jon?), so I'm here!"}, {"response": 79, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "I don't remember you ever getting close to the edge. But oh well--I'd never want to lose you Sam. This place would probably shrivel up and die. And Terry is very mellow--I don't think you have anything to fear (unless you're someone like JSun)."}, {"response": 80, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (13:28)", "body": "As for XRoads III, talk to Kevin."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (16:07)", "body": "I'd very much like to talk to K, especially so if he's planning to restart XRoads! But he's not around here! I'll send him an e-mail (and hope that I've got the correct address!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "Yeah, I wonder what happened to Special K?"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (21:09)", "body": "Frank, I was part of the USN Operation Deep Freeze program. I volunteered to winter over...was assigned to McMurdo Station on Ross Island...stayed there frm September 73 to October 74 the first time. I went down for a couple of more summer seasons...learned lots about cold weather operations and dressing for it. Sure did miss my motorcycling, and snowmobiles are not quite as good. Ed"}, {"response": 84, "author": "planeman", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (00:42)", "body": "I'm gonna try to ride my newly purchased Harley this weekend and I'm gathering up the necessary stuff for winter riding. Saw something interesting at the Harley dealer the other day that I thought I may prefer over heavy gloves. It was some mitten-like thing attached to the handlebars and may have been electrically heated. They wrap around the brake / clutch leavers and it appeared you just slide your bare hands into them. Looked like they would be warm and snug. Anybody used these things? What do you thi k about them?"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (10:56)", "body": "I used 'em briefly (or something very like them) on my BMW back when. They positively do work! Ugly but very functional."}, {"response": 86, "author": "Shane", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "Very Functional Item... Snowmobilers use them religiously... Beware or electrical heat attachments on your bike... They are not as reliable and can actually overheat and short out.... Have a GREAT first time out....."}, {"response": 87, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "They can also drain your battery, particularly when riding with lights on and lots of cold starts with short runs"}, {"response": 88, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (14:17)", "body": "As reported on Motorcycle Online: Harley-Davidson Reaches Footwear Pact Rockford, Michigan-based shoe manufacturer Wolverine World Wide Inc., said Tuesday it has reached a five-year agreement with Harley-Davidson Motor Co. for the rights to manufacture Harley-Davidson branded boots and footwear. Wolverine said in a news release the deal is effective starting January 1, 1998. Wolverine intends to initially market the Harley footwear in the U.S., Canada, Central and South America."}, {"response": 89, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (23:42)", "body": "Hmm. I wear Wolverines. Looks like I have something in common with HD now. What the heck--comfort is comfort."}, {"response": 90, "author": "Nighthawk750", "date": "Sun, Jun 10, 2001 (13:29)", "body": "I just bought a pair of GBX boots. They go up about 15 inches and have not leaked much when I was riding in the rain. They have four tension buckles on one sied and a full zipper on the other. I've walked and ridden all day in them and they are great."}, {"response": 91, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jun 10, 2001 (14:03)", "body": "Does it take a while to break them in? motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 22, "subject": "Cruisers", "response_count": 23, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (01:38)", "body": "Just so you guys know what I'm talking about, here's a link to a picture of the pedal-- http://www.netusa1.net/~pulse/accphoto/daddyo.jpg , although the colors are bad. And in a way the revival of the Danelectro accessories (they're not currently making guitars as the original company did) is similar to Triumph's and Excelsior Henderson's revitalization of a long dead name. The cruiser of guitar compoments?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (09:01)", "body": "Bam! I take the bait! lol How about the \"American Showster\" guitar? The one that looks like a Sportster tank with flames? It's a Fender wannabe made by some crew in New Jersey. Sounds like a cruiser to me!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (20:16)", "body": "Well, you all know what my favourite cruiser is, even though I've never ridden one (or any other cruiser, for that matter)! Hint: It's not the Dyna Convertible! I'm still partial to standard-types, though; especially the Nighthawks and the GS500E."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (09:19)", "body": "I will use this topic rather than the Polaris topic to respond to Brad and his post about replacement parts/service. I have never had work done at a Harley dealership. It is doubtful if I ever will. In my life, (other than bike purchases) I know I have spent less than $200 on HD replacement parts. Why?? I started riding Harleys in the late 70's. At that time--the bikes were not built as good as the Evo's. Aftermarket parts were far cheaper (and better) than HD parts. I did most of the service on m bikes myself. Within my circle of friends, service at a dealership was unthinkable except for emergencies. They were overpriced and often incompetent. Everybody did their own customizing on their bikes--preferring to get to know their bikes. The stock carb was usually the first part thrown in the garbage can--to be replaced by the far superior S & S. Stock exhaust usually went next. At this point in time--Harley offered very few if any choices in the factory custom line. Slowly, Harley began to co y many of the aftermarket custom creations and serve them up as factory custom. In the 90's, many of the aftermarket companies began offering outrageously priced creations. Arlen Ness was the worst offender. CCI, Drag Specialties and others followed. The aftermarket companies, which for years kept Harley parts prices from going through the roof, were now coming out with parts that were often higher priced than Harley. It seemed like the highest priced items were often interpreted as the \"best\" by co sumers. IMHO, todays most of Harleys parts are competitively priced. A smart buyer will still shop around. Harley Motorclothes sells leather jackets that are way overpriced--many people buy them because of the name stamped in the leather. I realize that I am far more critical and skeptical of HD than most. It comes from many years of HD ownership. I am glad that Harley is producing much better bikes than they did in the past. Competition is good for the consumers--us! Hoop"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (11:47)", "body": "Very good statement, from the faculty, not the students. When I started paying attention when I was around 14 years old up 'till now, I think I concluded the same thing, watching Harley sort of from the outside. The day of the \"dirty\" shop that knew its stuff versus the dealer may be over. Drag Specialties, Ness, Kuryakyn, they don't seem to produce for bikes that are *ridden*, but HD is doing its best. Just my $.02."}, {"response": 6, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (14:46)", "body": "It's not over as far as I can tell. I'd say that there were (from my observations) twice as many \"un-authorized\" dealers than real dealers. For instance, in San Angelo there were two greasy little unauthorized places, no real dealer. And from driving around Denver I'll see little non-factory places left and right--have yet to see a real dealer (but again, this is all very unscientific). I'd say as long as demand stays so far ahead of supply the little shops will do just fine."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (09:54)", "body": "It's interesting. HD is now putting in a program that will have each dealership post the actual factory training certifications of it's mechanics on the wall! The idea is to provide the information to consumers so they can actually see exactly how many mechanics qualify. Dealerships will also be provided with incentives to get more techs trained. Certainly not a guarantee of quality, but a big, and in my view necessary, step in the right direction. As far as the mom and pop places--buyer beware. Some are great, and some are a disaster. The bottom line is that it pays to know who you are dealing with. And if you find someone you like, don't let him/her out of your sight regardelss of where they work! It's time to service my baby! hehe"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (20:54)", "body": "I agree that some of the independent motorcycle repair shops are great while others are nightmares. The same can be said about factory service shops. I personally have heard of far more horror stories steming from repairs done at the Harley dealerships. Most of these horror stories center around massive overcharging for un-needed parts/repairs. IMHO, any dealer that charges over MSRP will screw you on repairs as well. The Harley dealer in Green Bay, WI sells Road Kings for $25,000--the shop labor ra e is $60 per hour. I think common sense should prevail when choosing repairs. Some people forget that some dealerships started out as independent repair shops. Some mechanics also decide to quit working at a dealership to hang out their own sign. Keep in mind that most mechanics get paid by the work performed rather than by the hour. By the way, the worst mechanics I have ever encountered have been at the bike rallies/events. The independent mechanics at places like Sturgis give all mechanics a bad name. Why would a good mechanic travel all the way to an event, pay big $ for a repair booth/location and then spend all their time working on bikes? The answer is simple--most good mechanics make their money at home and relax at the bike rallies/events. The bottom line is this--buyer beware for any repairs at any location. Hoop"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (09:04)", "body": "$25 grand on a Road King? And he gets it, I guess. Unbelievable."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (10:59)", "body": "Totally agree Hoop. Lots of bad apples out there in dealerships too. That's why I think having dealerships post their HD certification credentials is such a good idea. That won't protect you from unnecessary or overpriced work, but at least the work performed should be of reliable quality. Frank, don't be surprised at what HDs can fetch in certain parts of the country. I have a friend in Baton Rouge, La. where the waiting list is 3 years long, ant the bikes still sell at a premium! In fact, the local dealer doesn't even carry the bike she wants--the Super Glide--because their margin is too low! I'm coming to believe that the East Coast has the best dealer network in the country--1 year waits for MSRP at many places. You don't have to be a King to afford one, but it doesn't hurt!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (18:53)", "body": "Waiting a year for a ride sound a bit much to me! I guess that's part of why I'm a Nighthawk fan; they might be the Lumina of bikes (too labour-intensive to be the Accord or Camry of bikes, that probably goes to the ST1100 or some other shaftie tourer) but they're available, realtively good looking, relatively light and FUN! Nighthawk...two seats, no waiting! heehee! (Full blown case of Brad-itis here! And I forgot to tell the doctor about it at my check-up today!)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (18:56)", "body": "BTW, does that LA dealer carry Sportsters? Those don't have very high margins... Ahh, a trailing end! Maybe I'm getting back to my old style after all..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (20:37)", "body": "A lot of the \"indepdent shops\" that work on Harleys are the only place a H-D rider with a Flat/Pan/Shovelhead harley! Most of the New age shops (for BUBS, blue collar urban biker, like me) won't even touch the older Harleys! Local we have 3 independent shops and they'd rather eat crap than work on a EVO motored Harley. The new shops cater to RUBS and people like me that don't like to WORK on the bikes except the low-level basics. So the independent shops are really good for Harley as the keep the past a ive and running but I feel that the next step in the evolution motor will be full of major changes, won't be suprized if in 5 years, the old oil cooled pushrod Evo Twin will be welcome in the independent shops as the \"last of the old style H-D motors. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 14, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (23:13)", "body": "It's no surprise. Fay Myers wouldn't think of even looking at a Meriden Triumph. No fear, Isles Motorcycles is the expert anyway."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (12:28)", "body": "I know what you mean, I had a stand up row with the mechanic in out local \"official\" dealer about how the oil system worked on my Pan. I wouldnt normally have bothered but he had such an attitude (\"I was a female and couldnt possibly know anything\") I had to have a go, and anyway I had the time! :) oh yes & I was right and he was guessing (badly) come to think of it that was the same shop that told me that HD never made Iron head 900's, I should know better by now! ;)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "Why bother going to this shop at all? Just for a nice fight every now and then? :-) It sounds like they're a bunch of idiots. Oh well. I'm saving money now and am going to buy a T-Bird Sport (if Hinckley doesn't reintroduce the Bonnie first) but I'm not sure I'm going back to Fay Myers, though, as they treat me like I'm walking in in rags. I think it's a result of the middle aged baby boomers getting back into biking and the fact that bikes are now outrageously expensive. If you're not 40 or 50 something they don't bother even trying to help you."}, {"response": 17, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (12:54)", "body": "Jon, yea I can understand that, the problem with Fay Meyers is that it's just so big (mega-multi brand dealership), that Triumph is just \"another bike\" to them. You might have it worth your time to talk to the boys at APEX SPORTS here in Colorado Springs, they love the Triumph's, the Salesmen (Kenny & Gary) both own and ride them. The owner has a Tiger and has vowed that even if the sales aren't what he hoped for, he will sell them anyway as they are apart of his history! The Sport is a great looking pie e (except for the pipes, ha ha!), I know they'd treat ya pretty well. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 18, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (13:07)", "body": "Triumph is just \"another bike\" to them I don't know. They seem to have more Triumphs than anything else, and they're all situated near the front of the store (next to the Ducatis). You're right--they're huge, but there's no mistaking the fact that they don't think I'm really worth talking to. Heck, I can't afford it, so they're right anyway. I'm putting away now. I'm going to start saving in CDs of various lengths that will all mature about 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 years from now. That'll keep my grubby paws off of the money and if save a little bit from every check, and continue to live as frugally as I've been used to for most of the past 25 years, I'll be able to walk in and buy Ye Old T-Bird Sport for cash."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (14:29)", "body": "Jon It's the nearest shop (within 150miles) for the bits that you need \"NOW\", eg plugs, oil, filters, gaskets for the bits you didnt think you were going to take off - but its only any good for Evo bits!. Everything else I get via mail order, its next day delivery and a lot cheaper!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (20:45)", "body": "You don't have a Pep Boys or Autozone or Western Auto on every corner to buy those things? You can't get gaskets, but these big chain auto parts stores carry plugs and (sometimes) filters. And they cost half as much as the bike shop. I could buy NGKs for all my bikes at Western Auto for about $1.00 each, instead of $2.50 or so at the dealer."}, {"response": 21, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:42)", "body": "Hey, give me your humble opinons on the Suzuki Maraduer 800. For some strange reason I like this bike better than any of the Japanese cruiser's. Really like the feel of the handlebars, always been a \"dragbar\" fan but the seat would have to go asap and I've read it has a real problem with carberation flat spots. I'd prefer if it had a pipe on each side like the Intruder and \"wish\" it was \"belt drive\" like the 650 Savage! Gee, I need to just buy 3 bikes and take the best off of them and create one really e cellent bike. Oh well, let me know what ya think? Tailwinds, Bj"}, {"response": 22, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (13:25)", "body": "Handlebar--$20. Get an Intruder--slightly faster motor (am I wrong here, that seems like what I remember), much less fakey plastic parts that are covering things or supposed to look like something they're not, and a nice lean style. Then you can fool with the handlebars to get the riding position you want."}, {"response": 23, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (13:26)", "body": "It sounds like you really like the Intruder. Why the Maurader, then? motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 24, "subject": "cool motorcycle websites and URLs", "response_count": 54, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (14:40)", "body": "http://www.softsolutions.com/smidgley"}, {"response": 2, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (14:48)", "body": "Here's one-- http://www.reduc.com/ Thanks, Steve. As it looks like I will soon be a Brit bike owner, I'll check it out. I'm having a hell of a time trying to find a similar club here in Denver."}, {"response": 3, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (15:03)", "body": "There are two British clubs in Colorado that I know of. Norton Colorado Rick Black, 4690 Pierce St. Wheatridge, CO. (303)420-2654 The other is Colorado British Bike Owners (or something like that)- the president, Ray Farrell, is a member of our club. I won't post his phone number but you can find it in the Colorado Springs directory."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (16:03)", "body": "2 great sites. Guess I'm more partial to the Brit site. How often do you see Vincents that actually are MOVING? Ah--and the Ariel square four--delightful! The classic Norton--priceless! What great pics!! For those interested in the Honda Single Overhead Cam Engines--visit http://www.voicenet.com/~stauffer/ For those interested in the Kawasaki Z-1 visit http://www.concentric.net/~kgoldman/kawc.shtml Enjoy Hoop"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (20:46)", "body": "Uh, I know this place that is sort of \"rough\" if you like it like that. Check out Boomer's Homepage at http://www.wildboomer.com/ . No flames please... every now and then I like to get back to my more wild and wooly days...Boomer takes me back there. Ed"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (20:58)", "body": "Will definitely check out the Honda SOHC site to see if it has the 200/250 twin."}, {"response": 7, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov 23, 1997 (01:56)", "body": "Thanks, Steve. I went down to Fay Myers today and they weren't too helpful themselves, although they gave me the name of a place called \"Isles Motors\" that does nothing but Triumph restorations. This guy should be a good source--I'll call him on Monday."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 23, 1997 (08:17)", "body": "Does anyone have any connections to get us linked from other motorcycle sites? We're talking pulling some strings here."}, {"response": 9, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov 23, 1997 (13:22)", "body": "What might help is if we had an \"intro page\", like www.spring.com/motorcycles/ . This would make it easier to get links from large moto directories like Motorcycle Shopper. From there, of course, we can link to the spring.com page. I'm not sure that they'll link us if I submit \"www.spring.com\" and they find party pictures instead of a motorcycle site. ;-)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 23, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "We can easily do that, are there any html whizzes here that would volunteer to help with this page? We can easily create a page like that. In fact, I'll create a skeleton page now."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (08:01)", "body": "Hey I've been a \"Boomer\" fan for a while now! Seems like a good ol' boy. Good to have this area IMO! I can maybe do some NYC area linking, I'll let you know."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (10:53)", "body": "http://www.spring.com/motorcycle Look for further developments. Another Spring FrontPage 98 enabled website. Inspired by guess who?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (11:46)", "body": "\"genediscuss\"? Very good looking, and a needed page. Now I can post around and get others involved. Thanks!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (13:49)", "body": "I got my inspiration from the WebBoard box (the white and black boxes, that is). As for FP98, shame on you Terry. I hate FP--I code all my stuff manually. :-)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (14:37)", "body": "I do too. But some folks need a crutch."}, {"response": 16, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (15:14)", "body": "What \"inspiration\" were you referring to, out o' curiosity. I'd atleast like to know who I'm plagarizing! :-)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (02:16)", "body": "http://www.cowin-tech.com/ducati/ This site has links to dozens of other sites, both Ducati related and of general motorcycle interest."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (10:25)", "body": "How about http://www.magpie.com/nycmoto for a look at what goes on (here). http://www.roadgear.com for good prices IMHO. and for Stacey http://www.thunderbike.co.nz also http://www.sportriders.com and http://www.cybercyclemag.com More to .come!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "BikeSite", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (15:27)", "body": "Hello I would like to introduce myself, my name is Brian and I maintain \"Ramonas Bike Site \" at < A HREF=\" http://members.aol.com/ramonahall/BikeSite/BikeSite.htm </A> I was hoping for some feedback on the page. Thanks Brian Knoblock"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (16:39)", "body": "Nice site, Brian. Sadly, CrossRoads has been superceded by this site so far. Hope you'll be back for comments?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (17:19)", "body": "Welcome Brian, come on back!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (12:26)", "body": "Be sure to tell the operators of all the sites you visit about this site so that hopefully some will link to us. http://www.spring.com/motorcycle/"}, {"response": 23, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (16:52)", "body": "Hey Terry, can you access this yapp system with telnet? If so, how? Thanks."}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (18:23)", "body": "Just email me (terry@spring.com) for an account and I'll set it up for you. No sweat."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (11:06)", "body": "If you are going to Sturgis for the Rally, be sure to check out the Jackpine Gypsie site at www.sturgis-rally.com Hope to see all of you at Sturgis! Hoop"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (14:36)", "body": "Well, you won't see all of us at Sturgis but..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (07:05)", "body": "THe new address for the SOHC/4 club is http://www.voicenet.com/~stauffer/sohc4/ Owning a SOHC Honda (or parts thereof), I was interested in a Honda SOHC site until I realized it was all about fours."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (07:06)", "body": "WHat's the address for Special K's website?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (13:45)", "body": "Speaking o' which, where's he been lately?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (13:50)", "body": "Terry, what's this \"Fairwitness\" stuff? Was the author of this software a big Robert Heinlein fan?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (18:53)", "body": "1) Shebee, I'll have the AirTech URL tomorrow. 2) http://www.ace-cafe-london.com Check it OUT! Especially Jon, and Shebee (comments?). Although I saw my first Rickman Metisse about the time the cafe closed, I bought into this stuff and I'm still sellin' it today! Nice pix on a nice new site. I understand they're trying again."}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (22:30)", "body": "That's kind of stiff sounding, \"fairwitness\", it can be easily changed by the host or by me."}, {"response": 33, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (22:56)", "body": "Did you ever read \"Stranger In A Strange Land\"?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "Here's a good one for the British-inclined http://www.webbikes.uk.co Nice site, even has a conference-thing. Maybe BJ can get the word on future Triumph US marketing."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (08:40)", "body": "Folks, not sure how this got around to Heinlein books, but I have been a Heinlein fan since about 1957 or so when I read his 1st book, HAVE SPACESUIT WILL TRAVEL. I was 10 then. Since than, I have read all his books several times over...latest thing was the movie STARSHIP TROOPERS. Just my 2 cents worth. Ed"}, {"response": 36, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (11:00)", "body": "Frank, I can't get the website URL to work for me, I'd love for Triumph to come out and tell us American riders that their commitment was firm and that they are in for the long haul. I still have a attachment to the new Hinckley Triumphs and it is fun to ride a \"different\" bike than everybody else has! If you can get me the proper URL, I will check it out. Thanks my friend. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 37, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (11:01)", "body": "Well here is my very first attempt to learn Web Pages... Unfortunately I do not have the ability to \"Code My Own\" that Jon does, and the publisher I am using leaves a bit to be desired. I inserted a few of the links you all have included here ( hope no one minds). All I need now is a better scanner so I can use better pics and a better publisher to get the look I want... Please Email with Tips, Comments, or Critiques.... Shane http://members.aol.com/PTE1/index.html"}, {"response": 38, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (00:19)", "body": "The address for Web Bikes is http://www.webbikes.co.uk/"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Shane", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (19:41)", "body": "Okay, check out attempt #2. I gave the Spring a \"Glowing\" link... hehehe http://members.aol.com/PTE1/index.html"}, {"response": 40, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (20:50)", "body": "Shane, nice site that Wing is a great bike, wouldn't be surprized if my next bike may be a Touring rig as 50 is sneaking up much faster than I want and comfort is becoming a factor in \"the purchase\"! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 41, "author": "TRA", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (19:02)", "body": "here are two more web site that are quite well done.Both are about Ventures The Yamaha Venture Page http://web.bryant.edu/~redwards/yamaha/yamaha.html Tages Homepage http://www.arosnet.pp.se/tage/ Happy TRAils/NSD Paul"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (11:00)", "body": "For the US Laverda Owners Club site http://www.hevanet.com/lavrgs/USALOC1.htm"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Jan  6, 1998 (20:05)", "body": "Check this out! http://206.247.198.246:8080/"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sat, Jan 10, 1998 (10:53)", "body": "Sam, Thanks for the directions to a great site! What gives? I thought XRoads was down for the count. It is fantastic to see it alive and kicking!!! Hoop"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Jan 10, 1998 (23:58)", "body": "This is the third iteration of XRoads, or XRoads III, if you will. It all depends on Jon's resources and determination, both of which seem to be up at this point in time."}, {"response": 46, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Mar 26, 1998 (09:48)", "body": "OK it seems XR has gone up in smoke (again). Here are 2 links of interest I put on there Tuesday: http://www.motorcyclememories.com , great books, manuals, posters, etc. They just sent me search results for 80's Laverda reference sources long enough I gotta download 'em, and the search is free! Which leads me to http://www.europeancycles.com , a California shop full of good stuff, including a Laverda RGS in the used bikes section, which *may* have my name on it.."}, {"response": 47, "author": "BikeSite", "date": "Tue, Mar 31, 1998 (14:32)", "body": "You can Check out a Temp XRoads at http://www.customforum.com/xroads/ Later Brian http://members.aol.com/ramonahall/"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Apr 15, 1998 (12:55)", "body": "The above temp site has been replaced by a permanent Motorcycle XRoads (Crossroads) site. The correct URL is the following: http://www.fp-webs.com:8080/~XRoads Rodehogger"}, {"response": 49, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Sat, Apr 18, 1998 (21:55)", "body": "Hi guys. I just wanted to post a quick thank you to Frank for introducing me to Sportriders New England. They are a really nice bunch of folks."}, {"response": 50, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May  4, 2001 (00:22)", "body": "Here's Doc Flash's City Bike column: http://www.best.com/~citybike/"}, {"response": 51, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Tue, Jul 29, 2003 (18:50)", "body": "The current Motorcycle Crossroads is at: http://www.motorcyclex-roads.com/ I have recently created a site about my bike (no longer mine, I sold it last November): http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=394613&make_type_query=make%3DHonda&model_brand_query=model%3Ddel%20Sol&tree=Honda%20del%20Sol"}, {"response": 52, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Tue, Jul 29, 2003 (18:52)", "body": "This may be an easier URL for my site: http://www.cardomain.com/id/samblob"}, {"response": 53, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Jul 30, 2003 (10:01)", "body": "Great site, Sam. I had trouble loading the enlarged photos,though. Possibly my fault because I multitask big time. Take a few photos of your new mount, and this time, take the helmet off, please!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Thu, Jul 31, 2003 (20:57)", "body": "I don't know; I think the helmet helps in the anonymity department... Anyway, my new \"mount\" is a car, so I don't think I'll be wearing a helmet. motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 25, "subject": "Brits", "response_count": 117, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov 23, 1997 (02:30)", "body": "Tell me this is your bike, Steve. Stunning! But I guess everyone's long since sick of Jon drooling over old Triumphs. I absolutely love the colors. I noticed it's under a directory called \"smidgley\". Is it yours, are you just posting it?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (08:04)", "body": "PERFECTO..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "Here you go Jon--a picture of the 1972 Bonneville 650!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (10:45)", "body": "Hee, hee, let's try that again! It looks so tall!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (10:46)", "body": ""}, {"response": 6, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (10:48)", "body": "Hee, hee, let's try that again! It looks so tall!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (10:48)", "body": "Here you go Jon--a picture of the 1972 Bonneville 650!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (10:51)", "body": "One last time! Gee, operator error big time!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (10:53)", "body": "This is torture Brad..I see big empty spaces.."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (10:57)", "body": "OK, This is it--I hope!!!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (21:05)", "body": "Gee Jon, you and I can have fun and share the cost's of many tubes of \"blue locktight\", ha ha. I had to do this quite a bit on the old XS650 Yamaha twin but you will be doing more on a old british twin. Yea the new T-Bird sport is a decent looking bike but at $9,300 it is totally out of the picture for me. It looks better in the screaming yellow color!! Yes, my friend you are buying a excellent bike, the old twins are beautiful and hold a real place in history. So you will own a Merdian and a Hinckly series Triumph, you will be one of the elite and I with my poor old evo Sporty will just be one of the minons of millions, ha ha! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 12, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (14:31)", "body": "Here are a couple more Triumph photos - These were taken at the Clubman show in San Jose a couple of years ago when Triumph was featured. There were over 100 fully restored Trumps, from Cubs to hillclimbers to flat trackers, and of course, Bonnies."}, {"response": 13, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (14:51)", "body": "And here is a Triumph ready for winter in the Rockies"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (15:14)", "body": "Aww! Why go and cobble-up a perfectly good bike? That cabin fever must be pretty intense!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (00:38)", "body": "Hey, my brother tried to do a little \"ice hill climbing\" when he was here 3 weeks ago. I don't know if I mentioned the story, but he was trying to get the bike to a friend's garage up 70 or feet of icy hill. Made it about a third the way up and didn't damage ye old Ninja much at all. It was hilarious, but if we'd had that rig it woulda been no problem. And to think we thought we'd invented \"Ice Hill Climbing\". We were going to tell the AMA about it and everything...."}, {"response": 16, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (01:03)", "body": "O.K., here's the '72 Triumph Bonneville 650 I'm considering: It may go away because the company (mine) who's server it resides on doesn't know it's there, but for now it's there for the world to see. I don't know what you meant about the pic being grainy. Maybe your monitor is set to 256 colors, Brad? Anyway, it looks great here. Now how can't you love a bike like this. It's stunning. Now if only it was the deep \"maroon\" or BRG, but the bike is all original and therefore I won't mess with it. Aaaah. Yes, I want it, if Buck accepts my offer."}, {"response": 17, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (01:06)", "body": "Does anyone know the curb weight of one of these babies?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (01:28)", "body": "I would guess about 375 (about the same as my Monster now that it's been on a diet). I did a quick search and found about everything about them except the weight. I did find a web site that you might find of interest, Jon. http://www.erack.com/mcw/classics/trmfbonnie/index.htm is the Bonneville Buyers Guide."}, {"response": 19, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (01:51)", "body": "Thanks, Steve. Maybe I'll get out West on the thing this summer and I'll look you up. Or maybe I'll go East.... Well, one thing is for certain--when I get comfortable about the idea of a long trip on the thing (again, IF I get it) I'm going on a trip somewhere this summer. After all the crap I've been doing so far for Intergram, I'll have earned it. 375, eh? It's funny how my 600 cc Ninja is about 25 pounds heavier, though it's almost 20 years newer, and much higher tech. No excuse for that, I'd say."}, {"response": 20, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (02:26)", "body": "Man, that page has frustrated me. I'd love to make some of those performance and reliability enhancing mods (CDI and Mikuni carbs in particular) but I'm not going to touch this thing--it's too original. Unless.... Can you install a CDI without messing up the originality, in case you want to go back? Hmm...."}, {"response": 21, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (03:03)", "body": "There's no reason why you couldn't tour on the Bonnie. A friend of mine rode his '72 Bonneville 1100 miles last spring....in 24 hours! It was one of those Iron Butt deals. We have people from Colorado show up for our club rally at Capitol Reef every year. There are two electronic ignition setups that are popular for the Brit bikes - one is Boyer-Bransden and the other is...Lucas. Actually, the Lucas Rita is supposed to be the better of the two but is more than twice as expensive. The Boyer is less than $100, takes about an hour to install and about that long to change back, if you wanted to. I put the Boyer on my Norton about two days after I bought it. You can tell if someone has the Rita because it uses a different \"point\" cover but you would have to be ooking for it. I've seen plenty of Nortons (not as many Triumphs) set up with Mikuni's (a single carb usually) and the only real advantage over the Amal's is that they idle better. The big problem with the Amal carb is that the slide and the body are made of the same material and over time, material is transferred from the slide to the body and vice versa, making for a poor fit and in extreme cases, the slides stick. A very common fix is to have the slides sleeved with brass. Did you know that the original Mikuni was an Amal design? True story. Amal needed the cash and licensed them out and couldn't use the design until the license ran out in the late seventies but if you ever run into a real late model Triumph, it will have MK II Amal's, which are identical to Mikuni's. That is, unless it's a Triumph TSS (8 valve head from the factory) - they had Bing carbs!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (03:42)", "body": "Oh, I know you can tour on a Triumph, but I figure that I'm going to want to have some idea of the machine's reliability before I take off. That URL you posted said that a '71 or '72 was best if you \"only want to ride to the pub occasionally\". Really? They didn't say why. I sent them an e-mail asking for a further explanation. I'm assuming there's some kind of speed/performance drawback (they also said that the '72 had a rock solid chassis, the only problem being that it's hard on the frame to start t on the center stand--big deal). Hmm. Beats me. A very common fix is to have the slides sleeved with brass. Yikes!! What does that cost? No, I didn't know that. Mikunis have got to be better performance and more reliable--they have a big reputation for high performance (as well as good looking women....)."}, {"response": 23, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (04:09)", "body": "I'll ask my friend who owns a shop that specializes in Triumphs what the deal is with the '72 Triumphs and let you know. It cost me about $120 to have both carbs sleeved. New Amal's aren't a lot more than that but even the new ones will wear eventually and the sleeve fix is permanent. Now, if you really want some Mikuni's, I've got a pair of 38mm constant velocity carbs, a lot like you would find on a Ducati 900, that I'm not using. Problem is that they are downdraft."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (10:36)", "body": "Jon its a beaut! I don't see why you couldn't get the Boyer and switch back when & if you wanted to sell/show it. People went all over the place on those bikes in their day. The Amals are finicky to set at idle, but, so..? And that front brake will take getting used to. Bing carbs, which were on my R90S, suck, in a word. I have the \"original\" pipes and seat on my Duc. for show value, and I guess resale, but I don't see why a few practical mods in good taste would be wrong.. Beautiful piece."}, {"response": 25, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (13:10)", "body": "Here is a British bike that you don't see everyday - This is my friend's 1989 Norton F1, the only one on the road in the USA. They only made 116 of them. It has a 588cc twin rotor motor and is virtually vibrationless since it has no reciprocating parts. A lot of fun to ride but pretty intimidating since most of the parts are unobtainium."}, {"response": 26, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (13:31)", "body": "Here's what Brian Crichton of Classic Bike has to say about the '72: Hi Jon Basically there is nothing wrong as such. They are not particularly loved by Bonneville fans because of: Uninspired styling High seat Poor front brake Cheap looking wire supports for front guard and headlight If you can get a good example for the right money and you like the look of it, go ahead and buy. We were certainly not trying to put people off them - merely trying to position the way they are regarded by Bonneville people. Make sure you ride it before you buy. From Brian Crichton (Editor) I think it's gorgeous, so I don't care what folks say in that regard. It's surprising that the performance of the brakes went downhill with the newer bike (o.k., with a Brit company not that surprising). I bet that can be fixed with a nice and sticky set of modern brake pads."}, {"response": 27, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (20:26)", "body": "Jon, sweet looking machine my friend, I sure hope it's a Gem and treat's you very well. Wow, I'am very impressed that a Young Guy like you would want a Triumph Twin, it shows you have class. Enjoy the ride, will hook up this summer and you can whip the lowly EVO, ha ha! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 28, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "Yeah, either class or I'm really stupid. Yeah, I may end up the world's youngest Meriden Triumph owner (o.k., Shane, except for those flat trackers...). I hope it works out. I haven't heard from Brad, so we'll have to wait and see. I talked to the proprietor of Isles Motorcycles in Denver today. Very nice fella, answered all my questions and he stocks a full line o' parts for a '72 model. Also, he said the only problem with the brakes is that, to save money, Triumph decided for '72 and '71 to use car brakes instead of motorcycle brakes. No biggie as all it needs is a new pad. He suggested I not put on an electronic ignition, but he said it's easily doable (and he has the parts for it) if I want to do it. And yes, sadly, I bet the old Triumph could whip up on an '883 EVO. We'll just have to find out..."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Ed", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (18:29)", "body": "As a matter of fact, those 650 Trumpets were monsters...mine could outrun any stock HD made, and it was a '68. Even after I turned it into a chopper, it would eat big displacement V-twins like I eat popcorn...handling wasn't too good, though. It was so sloppy in the shift that I had to take my time or miss gears, but it was still a V-twin gobbler. Much as I like my '81 shovel, there just isn't the juice that the Bonny had. Ed"}, {"response": 30, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "You chopped it? Argh! I know you're hard core and the real thing, Ed, but I never have understood the attraction. Oh well, to each his own. They say that the '68 and '69 models were the best of the Bonneville breed--best power, best brakes, best chassis, lowest seat height, best styling, etc. Of course, I like the styling of the '72 just fine, even if it wasn't designed at Meriden (I think it was a BSA design) and has a high seat--I'm 6 foot tall, shouldn't be a problem."}, {"response": 31, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (20:53)", "body": "Oh yeah, my Ninja has an 85 or so horse 600 4 cylinder and a top speed of about 125-130 (on a good day--my buddy's F2 would always leave me for dead, but with my better mid range I could launch harder). They say that the '68-'69 had a top speed very close to that. Amazing. I'd never want to do it myself, certainly not on a public road. How long does it take to stop the bike with those car drum brakes?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Ed", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "Jon, I chopped it at the time because I had always wanted a chopper. I bought it as a total basket, so that part of it was easy. I was younger and more foolish then...also got in with a bad crowd as part of that. 'Nuff said on that. I would never put a hardtail on anything now...that is unless she wanted to climb up behind me on the Harley (I guess that is a feeble attempt at a joke!) Ed"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (08:09)", "body": "It looks like it could be one of mine, Ed, so I guess it is feeble!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (05:37)", "body": "Hardtails, riding pillion on, (rigid 500 Ariel,and a 650 thunderbird chop at 15) was the reason I started to ride myself. He had a nice springy sadle, I had 2\"x4\" of foam 1/2\" thick! I still run rigids (hardtails) but they dont cater for pillions! well not unless they want to sit on the mudguard on the way back from the pub!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Shane", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (12:51)", "body": "Okay, get out your calendars... (Got something good to say Harley wise hehehe).... I know performance wise the Bonnies were decent, but Ed's comment about being a twin eater caught my eye... My '69 900, never saw the taillight on a Bonnie ever....... Or much anything else Non-Jap for that matter..... Hmmmmm.... Jon, just buy the damn thing and get it over with... You got my heart pounding and I'm losing sleep at night.... :o) hehehe Shane"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Ed", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "Shane... That was a V-Twin eater....I used to run with some guys who had their Harleys chopped and modified...they still couldn't touch me on that Bonneville. I was running 650CC to their larger displacement power plants. I still maintain, it was a monster. The guys running the Japanese bikes sort of shied away from us, and I didn't often get a chance to run against any of them. Gear for gear, I used to do okay with the Japanese bikes of the same displacement, but when I would be next to some guy with a clo e ratio 6 speed, and I was running a stock Bonneville transmission with a lot of space between the gears, I didn't stand a chance. Now, it doesn't seem to matter much to me. Ed"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (06:59)", "body": "Ed yours must have been special, like Shane my '65 900 sporty was faster by far than any bonnie I ever owned or came across, although the late 650's were faster than the 750's in stock form. It also beat the stock Evo 883's into submission."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Shane", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (11:04)", "body": "The 900 that I owned was so high strung that it barley even sounded like a Harley except at idle..... That sucker would scream!! The motor was stock with after market electronics (Manual advance Mag, etc). I used to love when the guys riding the 1200's used to call my sporty a \"Mini-Bike\".... The expression on their faces as you blew by them was priceless... hehehe.... I kick myself to this day for ever selling that bike, even after the 15 or so years that have passed.... SheBee, Was yours a \"Rightster\"?? That took some getting used to... First time I rode it I almost wrecked it when I tapped down on the brake lever thinking it was the shift lever.... (Meeeemmmmoriessss).... :o) Around the same time I knew a guy that took a Harley 900 lower end and fit it with a 750 Flat Tracker Top end... The bike was untouchable!!! He used to just lay in wait for the unsuspecting Kawi Rider.... He didn't beat my Z1R by much, but he beat it....... Remember when racing in the street was acceptable by most everyone??? hehehe Shane"}, {"response": 39, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (11:04)", "body": "Darn, my local dealership has a beautiful \"leftover\" 96 Triumph Trident in BRG and cream but I just don't know if I can ride it comfortably due to the \"long strech\" to the handlebars! These bars are quite a bit higher than the \"stock\" or even added risers of the 95-96 Speed triple but still could cause me problems with wrist's and elbows! The only want $6,400 for this left over it's was damn near $8,000 when it first arrived. Gona take a real serious look at it again and compare it to a Honda Nighthawk in fit if the nighthawk isn't much better, the Trident may find itself and loving home! Tailwind, BJ"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Shane", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "Handles bars are cosmetic as far as I have ever been concerned, and you can get them pretty cheap from the M/C boneyards, or even new. Make the bike fit you, not you fit the bike...... (did that make any sense at all??) Happy hunting BJ!! Shane"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (12:12)", "body": "Agree Shane. Gee, new bars are like $40, and that's chromed! Replacing bars is one of the first things I do to my MCs. I guess I just don't have a stock body! hehe Parts is parts!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (12:43)", "body": "Get it! That's one of my favorite Hinkley Triumphs, second only to the Speed T and T-Bird Sport."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (13:39)", "body": "BJ Heli-Bars, from Gen-Mar industries has the bits for the Trident. That's a totally bulletproof bike! Great price. The Duc/Triumph \"boutique\" here had one last year, BRG & all, and 2 guys actually fought over who was gonna buy!. I met the final owner who traded an FJ Yam for it he's happy as hell. Gooood Luck!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "Jon: That's one of my favorite Hinkley Triumphs, second only to the Speed T and T-Bird Sport. How can something be second to two things?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "Hey, don't ask stupid questions! (Grin)."}, {"response": 46, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (10:41)", "body": "Yea, Heli-Bars might do the trick but to be honest I still have second thoughts about purchaing a Triumph. Been lurking around in the background and on the Hinckley Triumph Mail list. When I bought the speed triple that list had ove 100 members and everybody was excited about Triumph being in the US. Now it seems like their awaiting the \"death knell\" from Triumph of UK. on weither it's selling enough unit's to \"stay in America\"!! See I bought a 92 Yamaha TDM850 which only was sold for 2 years in the states and it was a real pain in the ass to find any accessiories for it even though they had some \"slick stuff\" in Europe. The bike value dropped so fast that I got \"royaly screwed\" (orginal MSRP: $7600 in late 93 a leftover could be got \"new\" at $4,000). Even my local dealer who sold Triumph's in the 60's and was excited about carrying them in the 90's has been left \"high and dry\" buy the \"value drop\" and slashed prices that Triumph has had to do to survive in the states and he got no \"coverage\" from Triumph UK. The Triumph website hasn't been up dated since late 96 and the new National Association RATS (Riders Assoc. of Triumphs) is a pure disaster and run poorly here in the states. Makes Harley and HOG look like they got it together even with all the strange dealer mark up and things! Will see. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 47, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (10:43)", "body": ""}, {"response": 48, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (11:59)", "body": "Well BJ you probably read my note regarding the Sportster desires now but, for a sport-tourer The Triumph is bulletproof, brawny, and a lot of decent accessories are available. I think Triumph's commitment to the US is quite strong from the marketing/bean-counter end. Again it's opinion, I like the bikes I've seen. But there's no question as to the difference in type/style/\"cachet\" between the T's and the HD's."}, {"response": 49, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (15:29)", "body": "I think that the new Triumphs have just about as much style, as long a history (if you consider it part of the original Triumph line), and gobs more performance than a Harley. But I guess everyone knows how I'd decide given the choice between HD or T...."}, {"response": 50, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (15:33)", "body": "Oh, I read a short article in CW this month. It's interesting. I read the initial reviews of the T-595 Daytona and was frustrated. They kept saying the same things--\"Great bike, crummy suspension, and the muffler's always grating and the fuel injection bites\". I was frustrated that Triumph had gone to the trouble to create a top-rate sportbike and had come up just short. But amazingly the Triumph designers must read magazines, because they've fixed all these problems in just the second year of production. I mean, if Honda designers read magazines they might have beefed up the power output of the Hawk GT and it might still be for sale. Good job of paying attention to the customer, admitting you're wrong, and fixing the problem. I think Triumph, with this kind of thinking, has a long and successfull future ahead of them."}, {"response": 51, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (21:30)", "body": "Jon, I sure hope so you'd look real good on a TBird Sport my friend! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 52, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (22:30)", "body": "Don't worry--just give me a year or two. I can't have everything I want right now."}, {"response": 53, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (10:19)", "body": "I truely understand, if not for JO deciding to \"change jobs\", I would be still looking at another \"beater\" CB or GS model bike myself. Just finally got Luck to go from bad to good for a little while, will see how long it's gona last!! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 54, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "Of course, you should probably do something \"responsible\" with the money, like in invest in an IRA. Nah, screw responsibility--get the bike!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (13:20)", "body": "Responsible?? Let's see, Where did I put that dictionary........ hehehe"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (13:47)", "body": "I mailed back to the British website originator, I don't know what happened. Hopefully they'll get it together."}, {"response": 57, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "Yep, that's what we said, besides 7 years is a long time to be with bikes and it will be so nice to have the machines \"paid off\"! Can't wait wish summer was coming a lot faster! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 58, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (03:39)", "body": "I agree, BJ. I'd give anything to be able to go for a ride, but the roads up here (except for the busy and crowded ones) still have ice in places, and it hasn't gotten above 40 in a week. Brr. Can't wait for summer."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (09:34)", "body": "What with the Triumph dreams turning into Triumph plans, I guess the KLR is totally out of the question now (moreso since you now have a much bigger D-P vehicle that won't fall on its side...)"}, {"response": 60, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (10:10)", "body": "Well Sam, you could always beat on Jon to buy a \"Triumph Tiger\" D-P bike instead of a TBird Sport, ha ha ha!! BJ"}, {"response": 61, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (13:30)", "body": "KLRs are cool, but a friend from Texas is supposed to be coming up from Texas to go dirt riding next spring and I think I'm going to have him pick up a dirt bike in Texas. They're much, much cheaper down there. For $1000 I should be able to get a pretty nice one."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "A Tiger is a big 3-cylinder BMW R100GS challenger, not quite a KLR. A fully off-road bike has never made much sense to me. A D-P makes more sense in that it allows one to keep going when the road ends (or to survive really bad roads!) THen again, which is better off-road, the Kawasaki KLR650 or the Suzuki Vitara (aka Suzuki Sidekick, aka Geo Tracker)?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (16:49)", "body": "Correction, Sam, AKA \"Chevy\" Tracker (they dumped the Geo badge this year and made 'em all Chevys). A KLR would walk off and leave a Tracker in any situation off road (and probably would leave behind almost any off road vehicles, including Jeeps and Hum-Vs). Around here a fully off road bike makes some sense. There are alot of great places to use them around here. A DP is handy because some of the trails require street legal bikes. But a bare bones off roader with headlights and a liscense plate would be better for me."}, {"response": 64, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (20:16)", "body": "Sam, a KLR is not \"that small\", yes a better dirt machine but still not a bike for serious trail riding. Jon is right as a serious DP like a ATK, KTM or even the KLX kawasaki would be much better. I'd use a 250 XR by honda as I like 4-stroke grunt but real serious off road riders swear by the 2-stroke! BJ"}, {"response": 65, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (21:50)", "body": "I hate the noise of the 2 strokes, though. Nothing worse than being up in the mountains and to have the things buzzing around like 200 pound, 150 db bees."}, {"response": 66, "author": "yves", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (01:59)", "body": "Yes but what a MUSCLE bee. I like better 4 stroke bikes but till now (except the new yz400F 4 stroke) there's no one that get enought power (and reasonably light ) for real dirt riding."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (02:30)", "body": "Headlights and a licence plate...And of course, in the U.S., indicators & passable emmissions; what else does a dirtbike need to be street legal? I always thought that D-P's were street-legal dirtbikes! Now I know that the 650s can't match the agility of the 250s or 350s, but I thought that these smaller ones were D-Ps too! Are XR400s considered D-Ps? I know the XT350s are! (Oh, WHY doesn't Yamaha make an XT500 anymore?)"}, {"response": 68, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (11:51)", "body": "True, Yves. Light is good (necessary) for real off road riding, and therefore 2 strokes are the way to go."}, {"response": 69, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (11:53)", "body": "There are some small DPs, but in the US the largest 2 stroke that can pass emissions (until Bimota came along) was (correct me if I'm wrong here) 100cc. At a certain displacement it doesn't have to pass emmissions. Anyway, I think Kawi still sells their little 100cc two stroke (or did until about 2 years ago) and that was the only 2 stroke streetable bike available. There's obviously some holes in my recollection. Someone help me out here."}, {"response": 70, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (20:57)", "body": "Colorado has some \"very leanient\" law's, many Serious dirt machine's can be granted street legal status with only added headlight, old fashion bulb horn, mirrors and a approved Spark Arrester! Sam, it's just some d-p bikes are 60% street and 40% dirt, while other's are 80% dirt and 20% street, they really differ from brand to brand and model to model!! It's so confusing! BJ"}, {"response": 71, "author": "yves", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (01:26)", "body": "I agree wih B.J. on cofusion, and from a contry to another the law's to be street legals are differents (sound output, spark arrestor...)."}, {"response": 72, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (17:29)", "body": "California is doing away with practically all 2-strokes. Before long you won't be able to get even offroad motocross bikes, watercraft and snowmobiles. I love this state, but man are they making it hard on motosport enthusiasts."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (17:52)", "body": "BTW Kevin, I just saw a story on the Sport Utility Vehicles market in CA, and the lower emission standards for them because of their \"light truck\" designation. I say keep the 2-stroke bikes, and bust the yuppie soccer moms! hehe Suburban Unnecessary Vehicles! ;-)"}, {"response": 74, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (20:17)", "body": "For \"California Dreaming\" read \"Purple Haze\"! heeheehee"}, {"response": 75, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (22:52)", "body": "Yeah! Get them before they get you! Hee. That's a problem--there are more soccer moms than bikers. Damn. As for \"unnecessary\", you obviously haven't lived in Colorado. I used to think that they were worthless, but they are very useful (and even necessary) here where we get like 300 inches of snow a year. 4 wheel drive or you stay in the drive."}, {"response": 76, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (10:03)", "body": "Please don't get me going on \"soccer moms\" or school moms or any \"mom\" drivers; I just fought my way out of the school parking lot this AM in the battle-Integra!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "Frank, are you trying to tell us you're a soccer mom? ;-)"}, {"response": 78, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (15:31)", "body": "He is ! He's always saying \"well, gotta go pick up the daughter at school\" or \"gotta go get the dress hemmed\", etc. when we're chatting. :-)"}, {"response": 79, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (17:27)", "body": "LOL......hehe"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (17:31)", "body": "What's next Frank, baking Christmas cookies for the scout troop? It's a thankless job huh? hehe Santa's little helper! ;-)"}, {"response": 81, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (18:36)", "body": "Veeeerrrry \"funny\"! I *am* a part-time \"skating dad\". And guess what? I *have* baked cookies for 'em! School lots ought to be on TNN's \"Motor Madness\" show, no problemo! And the Suburban ought to require a roadtest before purchase IMO. Integra or buggy, I'm no match for that stuff; I'd rather duke it out on the East side drive in NYC at rushour. See, ya got me goin..."}, {"response": 82, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (20:07)", "body": "What's the GVWR of a Suburban?"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Shane", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (20:30)", "body": "That would be the \"Gross Vehicle Weight Rating\"... In other words the maximum amount the rig should weigh when fully loaded.... A suburban in Jamaica?? I wouldn't think it would fit on the road!! Shane"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (23:02)", "body": "When I asked what the GWVR of the Suburban was, I was expecting a value as an answer, not a definition... Actually there are one or two in Jamaica, and if eighteen wheeled trucks can be in Jamaica (going over Mt. Diablo, yet!) why not Suburbans?"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Shane", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (23:30)", "body": "Call a dealer."}, {"response": 86, "author": "yves", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (03:40)", "body": "In the 97 car book,the spec. for a Suberu are: 2178 kg. for a 2WD, and 2579 kg. for a 4WD. Loaded or not, I don't know. Sam, is gaz expensive in Jamaica?"}, {"response": 87, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (07:06)", "body": "Thanks for the info, Yves, but I asked for a Chevrolet/GMC Suburban, not a Subaru. The reason why I ask is that I have a weight limit on my licence, so if the GVWR ofthe Suburban is more than 8000 lb (I got my licence before the Traffic Division went metric), I can't legally drive one. Unleaded petrol costs about J$12.50/litre. I'll work that out to $US/gallon at another time. Leaded is still available here at a lower price than unleaded, but it's being phased out (so they tell us...)"}, {"response": 88, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (10:29)", "body": "The key word there is \"Gross\"! I'll look, it's gotta be over 2 tons. Combined with high ride height, high doors, and a 5' \"mom\" at the wheel, it's a horror show."}, {"response": 89, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (11:05)", "body": "Here in DC, most Suburbans are driven by the Secret Service. They are black with blacked out windows, and a 6' shaded agent in the driver's seat. Very intimidating! Must have a squad of jumpout boys in the back--or more likely their daughter's soccer team! 007, here's your new Suburban equipped machine guns, and plenty of cup holders for the kids! hehe"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (12:25)", "body": "Yeah I've seen 'em, black, white, and grey ones. All the guys in 'em look like Howie Long trained to kill."}, {"response": 91, "author": "yves", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (14:53)", "body": "Sam It is SUBURBAN specs. Writing error. In pounds : 4,802 and 5695.(Heavy for a Subaru). :o) I do drive them sometimes for work. Not as big as it look,"}, {"response": 92, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (15:02)", "body": "Under 8000 lbs, O.K. i would be allowed to drive 'em. As to whether or not I can ..."}, {"response": 93, "author": "yves", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (16:45)", "body": "When I was asking for gaz price, it was for my information, but also to let you know that they drink 17.6 L/100km."}, {"response": 94, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (20:50)", "body": "They may be behemoths, but the Suburban has the best rating of any vehicle on the market in crash tests, making it supposedly the safest vehicle to drive. I don't know how it'd compare to something like a Humvee (which costs too much and barely seats two people..for rich folks only)."}, {"response": 95, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (22:16)", "body": "I think there are 7-seater versions of the Hummer (market-friendly civilian name for the Humvee)"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (10:02)", "body": "They may be behemoths, but the Suburban has the best rating of any vehicle on the market in crash tests, making it supposedly the safest vehicle to drive. Only if you're not the one on the receiving end! ;-) Where's the other car?"}, {"response": 97, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (10:21)", "body": "Hey guys, this is a Brit topic, shouldn't we be talking about Land Rover's?? HA HA HA HA HA. BJ"}, {"response": 98, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (10:33)", "body": "Yeah I wondered the same BJ! Brad's right K, that rating stems from the fact that it's the biggest-selling biggest sumbitch on the road. Insurance companies are now taking notice and charging a premium to owners, they know there'll be little or no damage on impacts! Down-county here there's a group of Lexus/BMW type owners lobbying against the big trucks road-rights, believe it or not! One kind of mom doesn't like it when her bonehead move gets her 735i cut down by another in a Suburban, etc.! And we have little very old lady in Scardale who drives a 4door Hummer everywhere, no problem. Nuts."}, {"response": 99, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (18:27)", "body": "Yeah I know..it's supposed to be the safest thing to ride in..not be on the receiving end. Might as well get a semi-truck *GRiNs* Frank, charging a premium because they're safer..I don't understand. I also can't believe any law could be made to outlaw any vehicle based on size unless they're considered a Wide-Load, or those semi-tractor rigs could be in trouble. If everyone rode bikes..the whole world would be safer."}, {"response": 100, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (19:07)", "body": "Apparently they want to charge the Suburban-types for damage they *don't* sustain relative to the *normal* cars now. Typical, ain't it? In other words if you're in an accident in a Suburban, your car will remain straight while doing total damages to the weaker vehicle, therefore you should pay more. They're lobbying right now."}, {"response": 101, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "Let me get this straight: Insurance companies get money from owners of Suburbans. Suburbans get into crashes and don't sustain much damage, therefore insurance companies don't pay much. And the companies want to raise premiums? Logic here, please?"}, {"response": 102, "author": "Ed", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (20:49)", "body": "What kind of motorcycle is a Suburban? Ed"}, {"response": 103, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (21:33)", "body": "One comparable to that pictured in the \"Serious Stuff\" topic!"}, {"response": 104, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec 20, 1997 (16:43)", "body": "I guess we could zing this over to \"Cars' now... Point being if you insure a Suburban with certain companies they'll charge you more than an S10 Blazer-class just because of 'size'."}, {"response": 105, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "So if a Honda Valk hits a Honda Rebel would the same logic apply, ha ha! BJ"}, {"response": 106, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (15:01)", "body": "Alright"}, {"response": 107, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (15:05)", "body": "I think it probably would. I'm no physicist (Glenn is, I wish he'd come back) but I would think that it would be much more difficult to get the Valk to fall over. \"An object in motion tends to stay in motion\" would seem to also mean \"a really heavy object in motion REALLY wants to stay in motion.\" It's easier to move a basketball from its course than the moon."}, {"response": 108, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:29)", "body": "I think in the case of two motorcycles..no matter what the difference in size..neither one comes out a winner."}, {"response": 109, "author": "Marlboro", "date": "Thu, Dec 25, 1997 (20:51)", "body": "Jon, Have you done the upgrade on your Triump yet,if not let me know have done them on numerious machines, can tell you how it all works together. MORE BANG FOR THE BUCK."}, {"response": 110, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (14:29)", "body": "Don't have a Triumph yet. \"Yet\" is the key word, as I will (hopefully relatively soon)."}, {"response": 111, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan  8, 1998 (22:12)", "body": "waiting til spring so you can ride it back to CO?"}, {"response": 112, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (16:57)", "body": "Change o' plans. I'm going to go on a vacation and ride my Ninja (which is having some major surgery performed on it now to get it up to snuff) through the Deep South in late March and early April. That will put the purchase of the Triumph back a little, but it's still planned."}, {"response": 113, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (17:54)", "body": "sounds like an excellent ride. stops planned or just a 'fly by the seat o' your pants' ride?"}, {"response": 114, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (16:59)", "body": "Only plans are that I'm going to leave here with a trailer and trailer the bike to San Angelo. That's one day's boring drive or two days boring ride, and I can't spare the extra two days it would take to ride (I know, I'm going to biker hell for trailering--sue me). From San Angelo I'll ride to my granny's house in Huntsville Texas and then from there to New Orleans. After that no plans, just going to wander around. I want to get to Memphis and Beale Street--sort of a blues pilgrimage, but I'll see what happens and where I end up. On the way back I'm stopping by Dallas for the Nascar race on April 5th. A buddy from Texarkana is going to meet me there for the race. From there back to San Angelo and the drive back to Colorado, at which point I'll be totally exhausted, but (hopefully) spiritually renewed."}, {"response": 115, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Jan 24, 1998 (11:17)", "body": "Sounds good to me, Jon. Great that you can get that amount of time and go where *you* feel like going."}, {"response": 116, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Jan 26, 1998 (16:09)", "body": "Well, it ain't that much time. Only 2 weeks total, and it'll be kinda crammed for time (it's 3 days each way just to get to the South) but it'll be fun."}, {"response": 117, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Jan 26, 1998 (18:21)", "body": "Enjoy the renewal... sounds awesome! motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 26, "subject": "Why a Harley?", "response_count": 187, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (01:16)", "body": "Hey, Planeman, nice to see you here! Welcome! Why are Harleys so expensive? Because they're popular. As long as they can get away with selling them for that price, they'll continue to do so. See, I'm not one of these people that somehow believes a company owes it to us to reduce their profits. In my opinion a company that makes moves to reduce their profits is making moves to reduce their success and will eventually kill themselves for making such bad business decisions. But one good business decision, when demand is so hot, is to make more (which is what HD is gearing up to do). This means more sold, more demand fulfilled more quickly and eventually lower prices. And instead of the first plan of reducing prices, the end result is that more people end up on HDs, which is good for all concerned, right? When they force the prices down to MSRP you're going to see an even longer waiting list as the available models will sell even more quickly. And that's not good for anyone but the lucky few who, by coincidence, were in the dealership at the right time. As for whether or not you should get one, I can't say. I might consider one day owning a Sporty, but probably not. I prefer my low tech, vibey machines of the British make, thank you very much. It is all, of course, up to you."}, {"response": 2, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (01:18)", "body": "But as for whether or not to get into riding again, go for it! It's one of the greatest, most pleasurable past times available to you. Take advantage of your freedom and do it!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (02:26)", "body": "Albert sunk $17k into that Valk. With the leathers, helmet, and new pipes."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (07:40)", "body": "BTW, does the Buell have the same extremely high demand as the factory H-Ds?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (09:56)", "body": "Rufus, Jon is correct. With HD, current demand is greater than supply, hence price inflation. Older bikes are often considered collectible, and also command high prices. If you can get a bike at or near MSRP without a wait, consider yourself lucky. As far as comparisons with \"rice burners\", the Harley experience is much more than buying a motorcycle. That part can't be explained, it must be experienced. Having owned both, I couldn't be happier than I am with my Harley. It's was a personal decision I have never regretted. Blob, in answer to your question about Buell--no. Buell sells bikes, but not with a waiting list. There is a lot more competition in the sportbike category, and Buell doesn't have the same loyalty factor that Harley-Davidson does, even though they use the HD motor. Life is just a series of choices--make the best ones for you!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (10:18)", "body": "Rufus, Welcome to the site. You have many questions regarding Harleys--mainly the prices of Harleys. Recently, Harley won a Supreme Court decision which allowed Harley (and automobile manufacturers) in some instances to prevent dealerships from selling vehicles over the MSRP. I have not seen or heard any news regarding the Harley MSRP since the court decision. It is hard to say what the future will bring, but I sure wouldn't pay much (if any) over MSRP. Harley prices are currently riding a wave of popularit that show little sign of ceasing. Guessing the future of the fickle American public is not an easy task. The older Harleys (Pre 1984) seem to be dropping in price. The Panheads (1948-1965) definately are dropping in price. The Evolution Harleys (1984 to present) are technologically superior to the previous models. The Evolution Harleys are far more reliable than the earlier models. Even the most loyal Harley enthusiast would have to admit that the Harley is not the most technologically advanced motorcycle. The Gold Wing would get the nod from almost everyone for best tech. The other Japanese manufacturers and BMW are also technologically superior. To prove it--take the following test. Look at your local newspapers want ads over a long period (a month or more). Make notations of how many times the word rebuilt is mentioned in relation to the brand. Then make notations of the mi eage of the bikes by brand. A pattern should develop. Harley manages to squeeze a paltry 54 horsepower out of their 1340 cc engine. The Japanese squeeze this out of 400cc engines. Technology is not the entire reason while people buy a motorcycle. Recheck the want ads and look at the bike prices. Harley is by far the motorcycle that depreciates the least. Harleys do maintain their resale value. The Harley mystique as a \"outlaw\" motorcycle drives the market. The image of the Harley owner as a greasy, tatooed, beer swilling slob is almost history. The new Harley image is that of a rich, urban, biker or RUB--posing next to his chromed out Softail. The Harley bikes have the most beautiful exhaust sound of them all. What do you want the bike for? If you live in an urban area and spend most of your time on short jaunts--the Harley (at a reasonable price) could be your best bet. If you plan to use the bike for many long trips, the Gold Wing could be the best bet. Good luck in whatever path you choose. Hoop"}, {"response": 7, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (10:45)", "body": "Welcome Planeman! I cannot quickly add to the good and true advice offered here concerning HD. I've been riding a while and not much with Harley, but if you take your time, look, feel, and think about each (type & make) you'll make a good decision. Budget probably comes 1st or 2nd, then go out and look at 'em. Harleys have never been dirt cheap, I think! And they sure do hold the value more than most over time. A motorcycle is an investment in personal happiness, don't rush!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "Well said, both Hoop and Frank. As far as the technical stuff, the modern EVO engine is rock solid. While it may only produce modest horsepower in stock, EPA restricted configuration, a small investment ($500-700) in carb jetting, air cleaner and pipes the performance is increased dramatically. In fact, that is the one point that hasn't been mentioned here so far--modifing a bike to suit your individual needs. In the category of customizing, Harley wins hands down. There is no other MC with so many options for making an individual statement, both in terms of cosmetics and motor modifications. Like I said before, it's much more than a bike--it is an experience. I have found that experience to be very rewarding. There's no one in the world exactly like you! hehe"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (12:13)", "body": "I got to admit; The Sound. Flying low on the interestate, nothing makes me smile much quicker than when a looney-looking guy on a hog of some kind pulls up, glances wild-eyed, and cracks away from me with that sound. Pretty definitive, more than a wailer on a UJM. 2nd place goes to the fist-pumps I get coming out of a toll booth and winding out the Duc, though the Laverda was king there.."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (12:30)", "body": "The Duc is swimming in soul, not to mention performance. If I had a sport bike, that would be the one. Piles of smiles either way."}, {"response": 11, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "True, Hoop, the Japanese can get big twin horsepower out of a 400cc engine, but at much higher revs and with no where near the torque."}, {"response": 12, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "I rode a 1200 Sporty once--I can see the attraction of way down low HP. Up shift and get a kick in the pants--awesome!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (14:13)", "body": "I'm laughing; most of the Japanese stuff has \"nothing\" or next to it down low. I almost killed myself on a CB750SS the 1st time I rode one because of that. Talk about big bang on top! That's why twins are so satisfying, even my KZ400 felt like it had balls down lower. You shall learn Skywalker, of the power, the force, the torque where it belongs!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "Yeah, speaking o' twins, I think 2 cylinders are all a bike needs. Want more power? Get a bike with more displacement. Ducati has proven that a 1000cc twin can dominate 750cc fours because thought it's down on HP a little, it's got easy, tractable power."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (19:18)", "body": "Yeah but along comes a bigger fish... I wish we just had twins too. Even the triples are overkill IMO."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "Hoop: What do you want the bike for? If you live in an urban area and spend most of your time on short jaunts--the Harley (at a reasonable price) could be your best bet. If you plan to use the bike for many long trips, the Gold Wing could be the best bet. I would have thought that a small bike would be better for urban areas and short jaunts! If this isn't so, then please tell me what the Nighthawk 250 (or my TwinStar when I have enough time to get it to the mechanic) is good for? As for long distances, isn't that where the Electra-Glide is supposed to shine?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "Sam, Riding short distances on a big Harley is a cultural phenomena (probably unique only to the U.S.). It is called \"Cruising\". The TwinStar or Nighthawk would be far more practical vehicles without a doubt. Lower cost, lower operating expenses, lower insurance costs are only a few of the benefits. U.S. citizens, with their incomes, have never been a practical people. The Nighthawks in the U.S. are somewhat relegated as entry level bikes. Being seen on an expensive (compared to the Nighthawk) bike is mo e socially acceptable in the U.S. It borders on snobishness. An adult with a good job over the age of 25 in the U.S. would probably be looked down upon if he bought a Nighthawk(other than a first time bike buyer). As far as touring long distances, the Electra-Glide is Harleys top touring model. IMHO the Gold Wing far surpasses the touring qualities of the Harley. I have never owned a Gold Wing and probably never will. The people that put over 20,000 miles per year on their motorcycles most often own a Gold Wing. The Gold Wing is smooth, powerful, low maintenance, and generally trouble free. I have never seen a Gold Wing broke down or on a trailer. The Kawasaki Voyager and BMW K1100LT model are both (IMHO) te hnologically superior to the Electra Glide. One need only look at the results of the Ironbutt competition to see for themselves. The E-Glide does shine in its own right. It is the flagship of the Harley Marque. The rumble of the V-twin leaves the rider with a feeling that can only be obtained on a Harley. It is the \"intangible\" aspect that keeps Harley showrooms busy. The E-Glide has snob appeal as well. It is Harleys top of the line bike. It is a more than adequate touring bike. Obviously the \" Harley vs the rest of the bikes\" has as many different opinions as the participants. Some of these opinions are downright comical. A BMW dealer--touting the values of the BMW Cruiser has an advertising slogan: \"Sell your Harley while you still can!\" Hoop"}, {"response": 18, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (13:19)", "body": "Planeman, why a harley, it's really hard to say? See I've had many brands and styles of bikes, never owned a Harley before and many of my riding friends are ready to put me in a mental hospital for even considering one! It just seems that the bikes \"just can't be as bad\" as all the non-harley riders say they are if so many people buy them! I can remember when riders thought you were nuts to buy a DUCATI, they where just a pain in the ass to own, adjust and where so limited in their nature. Remember that many of today's riders stared on CHEAP Universal Japanese Motorcycles ie: STANDARDS. This style of bike could at a whim be a cafe racer, tourer, ect. and we all got used to Harley's being for the \"Hells Angels\" types so we all disliked them and made fun of the \"Chopper\" style. So we started making fun of their machines, the old Pan and Shovels leaked oil and started hard next to the Japanese Standards so we deemed ourselves as \"smarter and more knowledgeable next to our social deviant harley riders. You know the EVO Harley is a damn good bike and with proper care and no abuse can last a l ng time and doesn't require anymore maintaince than a old R-series BMW. People wax romanticly at old Triumphs and BSA's but they \"LEAKED\" as bad as any Harley and were maintinance nightmare. So the only problem I see with Harley is the \"extra dealer profit\" added to the MSRP that makes getting into H-D much harder than it should be, now that they are increasing production over the next years with a goal of 200,000 units by 2003. A harley will never be a japanese sport bike, only a BUELL kinda comes close nd even though the Buell is a part of the Harley family, it's still a outsider. If you want a Harley then do a look around some dealers will sell at MSRP, my local dealer has \"no waiting list\" but charges a 8.5% dealer markup and tell's you this right to your face so you know. Hopefull in 1998 Harley will announcee that all dealer's must sell at MSRP or lose there dealership, then there'd be no reason NOT to buy a Harley! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 19, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (13:31)", "body": "though the Buell is a part of the Harley family, it's still a outsider. I've said it a million times--you wanna be an outsider? Buy Brit, Italian, German or even Japanese. You wanna fit in? Buy a Harley. Over half the bikes I see on the roads of Colorado (atleast where I live) are Harleys. Hopefull in 1998 Harley will announcee that all dealer's must sell at MSRP or lose there dealership, then there'd be no reason NOT to buy a Harley! You're forgetting one part of the old \"supply/demand\" principal, BJ. Everyone and their dogs want Harleys now, right? Why don't they all get them? Because, for many, they're too expensive, so the number of Harleys sold is reduced, therefore making it easier to buy a Harley. If the price goes down a few more people who wanted one will be able to afford one. Sounds fine so far, but there won't be any extra Harleys available to fill the extra demand and places that didn't have waiting lists will have them and those that already have 3 year waiting lists will go to 4 or 5. Who'll get the Harleys at the reduced price? Either those who've been on a waiting list for years or those who get lucky and happen to walk into the dealer when they happen to have one--pure luck. Alot of people gripe about the free market system, but I think it works pretty well. How else are you supposed to decide who gets one of the limited supply of Harleys? Whether or not your brother in law is an HD dealer? Whether or not you got lucky and walked into the dealer at the right time? No, I think it's better to have a shorter waiting list and the ability to get one if you really want it--if you save up the money. Sure, it may not be considered \"fair\" to the poor guy, but atleast it's possibl to buy one, no matter who you are."}, {"response": 20, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "Oh yeah, another problem with forcing MSRP. Why is it fair for the dealer to make a reduced profit on a $14,000 motorcycle when the buyer will have it in the paper for $18,000 the next day? The scammer will make a big profit, and the dealer (who has all the normal dealer expenses) will make less. Is that fair? The only way to reduce the prices on Harleys is to increase production. End of story. Otherwise there will be too many ways to take advantage and aquiring one will be even more difficult. HD is working on it, but it'll take some time. See, even if it means a slightly smaller margin, HD wants to see more bikes. If they're making $5000 per unit now and selling 100,000 then that's $500,000,000 profit per year. But if they make $4000 per unit and sell 200,000 then that's $800,000,000 profit. And HD, like any honest company, wants to make as much money as possible. So don't worry--those silly rumors about trying to keep production low and prices up just aren't true."}, {"response": 21, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (22:52)", "body": "Jon, well see from what I read in MO, Harley wants to use the \"forced MSRP\" to show it's customers that it's looking out for them. A nice propaganda move to be sure, the dealers will just add it to \"dealer prep and freight\" costs or some other pure BS!! Even H-D says that by 2003, you should be able to go into a Harley dealership and buy your bike off the showroom floor. So I don't worry about the \"low production\" rumors, infact Harley was smart, if in 1984 they'd have brought up killer production numbers of the new EVO, it could have \"bombed\" and forced the company to shut down forever! It's just that if I could have bought the bike for MSRP, I could have got a 1200 model sportster instead of the 883, yes I know I can put a \"kit\" in a 883 but you see I trust\" the Harley folks 1200 over one kitted out by my local dealership!! No the 883 will remain stock but carb/airfilter, SE slip-on's, braded brake lines, fork brace and a quarter fairing should make the bike fun to ride, then Metzelers after the stock Dunlops wear out. That's why I like the Harley Sportster, I can bulid it up to what I want it to look like! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (00:00)", "body": "If Harley produces a gazillion bikes in a production year--rest assured--they will never lower their prices. Any Harley executive that suggested lowering their prices because the production costs (economy of scale) are lower would certainly be seeking employment elsewhere. Harley is trying to keep a lid on the MSRP because it knows that the premium prices now being paid will never last. It might be 1 year--it might be 5 years--maybe even 10 years--but eventually the demand will drop off. An economic r cession will be the most likely cause of a drop in demand. Harley knows that the people that bought the $25,000 Road Kings will eventually want to trade them in on new bikes. Harley is looking at the long haul. Imagine its the year 2004. You bought a new Road King in 1998 for 25K. You now want to trade it in on a new $20,000 (realistically priced) bike. The dealership tells you your bike and $10,000 for the new bike. Think the person that paid big bucks for the Road King will be pissed off--you bet he will be. Harley is looking out for itself. Personally, I think Harley is doing a disservice to its long term economic health by upping the production. Think about it--200,000 bikes produced every year with very few destroyed (as in cars) will eventually result in a flooded market. Thats my opinion! Hoop"}, {"response": 23, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (00:17)", "body": "Any Harley executive that suggested lowering their prices because the production costs (economy of scale) are lower would certainly be seeking employment elsewhere. Some people think that executives are unaware of or have the power to ignore economic realities. This is not the case. An exec's job is to make more money for HD. It's A, unhealthy to try to continue making bikes/money at the current rate--in business you're either growing or dying. B, the best way to make more money is to make more bikes. The math I posted before remains true. Even if they make a little less per unit, as long as they're making more bikes they will be making more money, which is exactly what everyone at HD (rightfully) wants."}, {"response": 24, "author": "flowerchild", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (00:21)", "body": "MORE MONEY, MORE MONEY, MORE MONEY TO BAD THAT THIS IS THE WAY PEOPLE LOOK AT THINGS GUESS WWHAT THEY CAN KEEP IT AND THEIR BIKES"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Ed", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "Jon, HD has the most interesting market strategy that I think I have ever seen. They don't play to a tough audience, who knows what they want in a motorcycle. They just make something that everybody wants, and makes sure it remains popular by whatever means. Why do you think HOG exists? How about the relationship between the HD motorcycle, American flag, and the American Eagle? I guess I don't like them making money off the naivete of the people who don't know any better than to buy into a fad. I have a passion for my AMF Harley shovelhead, but don't care a whit for the company that made it. I understand capitalism...I guess I feel like it pisses me off that HD is being a HOG about it. Ed"}, {"response": 26, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (01:30)", "body": "I guess I don't like them making money off the naivete of the people who don't know any better than to buy into a fad. I can't blame them. If they're making a good product and people want it, you can't hold it against them. HD wouldn't be a fad, however, if the quality of the machines hadn't improved drastically over the past 15 years. The fad would never have come about under AMF, no matter how hard they marketed the machines. I don't think HD is being too bad. Probably the \"greediest\" people involved are the dealers, but I understand. You can't sell a bike at MSRP because it'll end up in the newspaper a week later with a $4,000 mark up. But HD is making pretty good bikes as quickly as they can and taking measures to increase production. I'd say that's about all anyone can ask."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (08:20)", "body": "To the Flower Child: More Money is the sole puropse of having a business. We want Harleys, they want money. The organizition of the business is the compromised worked out so that both sides can get what they want to a satisfactory level. I will probably never be able to afford a Harley (and if I did, I'd probably buy a van or pickup truck instead!), but there are a few in the lineup I will continue to dream of. Any manufactured item you have (even yer John Lennon albums) was made by a company that wants...More Money."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (08:23)", "body": "I have made the grammatical error that I usually ridicule when I see. The above should read: \"I will probably never be able to afford a Harley (and if I were , I'd probably buy a...\" Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "planeman", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (20:54)", "body": "Thanks guys - you've been great! Here is what I have gleaned from the conversation. 1. There is a \"fad\" aspect with the demand for Harleys probably based upon the \"Bad ass\" image from the past (I surmised this early on). 2. Demand has outstripped production, creating a premium over MSRP, the premium now required by the dealer or someone sharp enough to get a bike at MSRP and re-sell it at the inflated market price. 3. Harley plans to increase production as soon a possible to 200,000 units / year (I wonder what the 1997 production run is?). Harley also intends to force dealers to sell at MSRP in 1998. 4. The rules of economics dictate as demand is satisfied, prices will come down. 5. This tells me If I want a Harley, I would be wise to find a dealer somewhere that will sell now at MSRP or purchase just as the dealers are forced to sell at MSRP (if this actually happens)and carefully watch the used prices to see if the fad is declining or the increased production is affecting the used price of the model I have purchased, selling at the appropriate time to avoid a loss. This is a mercenary approach, however I get mercenary with a $15,000 to $18,000 investment. 6. Let supply and demand take care of the pricing. Anyone who is sharp enough to buy low and sell high to another who is WILLING to pay the price is O.K. by me. Careful buying, careful selling - this is why I asked the question \"Why a Harley?\". I now have a better picture of how to place my money. Thanks and good riding. P.S. I've posted a new topic I need help with - \"In over my head?\""}, {"response": 30, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (23:51)", "body": "Right now they're just a hair over 100,000 units per year. I agree about your 6th point, Planeman, but to force the dealers to sell the bikes at MSRP thus allowing the first purchaser to jack up the prices and turn around and sell it is ludicrous. They might as well let the dealer have the profit, since someone is going to get it."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (10:47)", "body": "Actually, production for 1997 exceeded well over 130,000 units. As far as dealers and MSRP, I disagree with Jon. While there may be some short-term profit gains for dealerships selling at premium, there is long-run damage to customer relations. Buying a bike in the paper at a premium doesn't generate anger at the company. The company cannot be responsible for what private citizens do. However, premium pricing at dealerships creates bad blood, and discourages many potential HD buyers from getting in--permanently. Selling at a competitive price, even if it means pu ting people on a waiting list is perceived as being \"just\". However, tacking on big premiums is perceived as dishonest, market forces notwithstanding. This is especially true in light of the increased availability of lower cost alternatives from Japanese manufacturers and others, like Polaris. Price-gouging also discourages the long term financial relationship between buyers and the Motor Company--which is where the real money is. Higher production and fair pricing is critical to HD's \"future\" success and they know it. If I have to pay you now, you may not see me later"}, {"response": 32, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (14:17)", "body": "Buying a bike in the paper at a premium doesn't generate anger at the company. The company cannot be responsible for what private citizens do. True, but don't you think you're going to end up with even higher mark ups than what the dealer would charge? It would seem that this extra step would be inflationary. However, premium pricing at dealerships creates bad blood, and discourages many potential HD buyers from getting in--permanently. Selling at a competitive price, even if it means putting people on a waiting list is perceived as being \"just\". Well, I can't help it if people don't understand the basics of supply, demand and the free market system. I expect the dealer to charge as much as they can get away with. The dealer doesn't owe me anything. Why should he charge less? To do me a favor? And if the waiting list gets longer, is it doing me any good? Expecting a dealer to hand over profits to shysters who only want to buy the bikes and resell them (and don't care about motorcycling or Harley Davidsons) is unjust, in my opinion."}, {"response": 33, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (14:18)", "body": "Hmm. I didn't realize how fast production was increasing. I read a figure somewhere that said something like 107,000 units, but it may have been a '95 or '96 number."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Shane", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (14:41)", "body": "Rufus, Go out and buy whatever you WANT and your pocket can take.... That is the idea behind Motorcycling.... I bet if you asked everyone in this room there has probably been many of us who have had years where there where 2,3,4, or more bikes in the garage at one time... (Guilty of that myself hehehe) Why? Well because we WANTED to!! I have a bike that was affordable and dependable, yet I still break out the want ads every weekend just to see what's in there.... The day will come when the right bike (R ad 1100 Spectre) at the right price will show up and I'll have 2. Eventually it will happen again, (Read Harley basket case) and I will have 3. The day will then come that they start getting ridden less and I sell or trade and the cycle starts all over again.... My wife calls me an overindulgent child, I say YOU BET!!...hehehe Shane"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (16:23)", "body": "I expect the dealer to charge as much as they can get away with. The dealer doesn't owe me anything. Why should he charge less? To do me a favor? No, to do himself a favor by keeping your business over the long haul. I have spent a \"premium\" worth since I bought the bike on additional merchandise and I will spend much more over the coming years. It depends on where your focus is--today or tomorrow. The existing profit margin on HD bikes is good. The gougers are greedy and near-sighted. And if the waiting list gets longer, is it doing me any good? Depends on what you value more--time or money. Most folks I talk to feel that waiting is better than being pinched, which they strongly view as unjust. Expecting a dealer to hand over profits to shysters who only want to buy the bikes and resell them (and don't care about motorcycling or Harley Davidsons) is unjust, in my opinion . The gouging dealer is also a shyster--hiding behind a franchise sign! IMO, if everyone has an equal opportunity to get on the list, the list becomes the great equalizer. It's fair and allows those without the deep pockets in the game. It gives the buyer the option--time at the dealership, or money on the street without ruining the company-purchaser relationship. In reality, the marketplace offers both types of dealership operations. Some dealers markup, some do the list. MSRP dealers have ways of ferreting out many of the jerk bike flippers. One way is a hefty deposit to get on the list. They also run phone number matches from the want ads against their customer sales lists. If you are found out, I can tell you that you are sunk at that dealership and any other closeby dealership for any future bikes. IMHO, the dealerships that care for their customers and foster the long-term relationship will be around when supply and demand find equilibrium at MSRP prices. And the gougers? They'll be as dry as the desert on a sunny afternoon. He ain't heavy, he's my dealer!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "Jon, if H-D get's the production levels up to where\"you can buy your bike off the showroom floor\", then WHY would you pay some greedy shmoe who buys a bike for \"profit turn around\" purposes. Those jerks would be \"put out of business\", it's because of the \"lower production rates\" and \"high buyer demand\" that those creeps can do this in the first place. If my local dealership has the bike \"I want\" in stock at MSRP, then I'd be \"NUTS\" for paying a \"huge markup\" to some rip-off artist! Most Jap/Euro dealerships sell at MSRP and Brad is very right that given a \"good deal\" I'd be more willing to \"spend the bucks at my dealer\" for accessiories and service. See I'd really prefer that \"stock\" 1200 Sportster over the 883 as \"to be honest\" I don't trust my local dealer to \"convert\" the 883 to a 1200 as I trust Harley-Davidson, to \"build it right\". On the Sportster mail digest list, there have been many reports of \"base gasket leaking problems\" on the converted or kitted 883 to go to 1200cc's. Due to my local dealers mark up (ie: 8.5% over MSRP) and the outrageous $700.00 for freight and dealer prep, it put the 1200 Sporster up to $9,300.00 out the door costs and the 1200S model (my favorite) close to $11,000 out the door and a bike that MSRP's at $8395.00! If Harley-Davidson \"forced\" the MSRP option, I might have been able to still get the 1200cc sporty even with JO deciding to \"switch\" from a Savage to a Intruder. Now, having to look at the \"COSTS\" of bring a 883 Sporty up to par (performance wise) with the 800cc-1100cc Jap cruisers and the extra markup, Iam really shying away from buying a Harley-Davidson. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "Good points BJ, and I sympathize. I hope someday you get a chance to buy that Harley of your dreams. In response to the original question, \"Why a Harley\" I found this quote recently which I think says something about the intangibles of Harley ownership. In his new book Pilgrimage on a Steel Ride author Gary Paulsen said the following: \"There is something fundamentally American about a Harley. The way they look and sound, the size and mass of them, the care (now, if not so much in the past) taken in their manufacture mixes the feeling of the Wright brothers with Barney Oldfield and Eddie Rickenbacker and leather helmets and goggles and chaps into a big ball of empathy that is almost overwhelming...The feeling of the bike, the sexuality combined with the patriotic and aesthetic mystique, makes a brew so heady that it becomes almost n rcotic. Riding a Harley is coursing, like a wolf on the run, hunting fresh territory to mark as his own. To seek. Not to find, not to end, but always to seek a beginning.\" I know they say you can't explain it, but I think that comes pretty close! No other experience like it in the world."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Shane", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "Okay, I can buy that one Brad.... It's a whole lot better than the \"Cause it's a HARLEY\" explanation that you hear so often today. Once I re-read it though I realized I could say that a lot of bikes I have ridden have made me feel that way...... They didn't have to be Harley's.... Shane"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (13:48)", "body": "Hey Brad that was a neat verbalization of the \"mystique\"! Is the authir American or British? I've read british accounts that reflect similar feelings. BJ, sounds like you have a real gouger dealer there. the setup charges are real BS. But they're in every brand, a Honda/Suzi and Kaw/Suzi dealer here does the same when he can. I say again, when you decide on which bike first, it's better to then hunt for which dealer; I've found the best Guzzi guy I can go to is in PA, not the one 15 min. north or 1 1/2 hours west. The gouger grabs the squids,the dopes, and the clueless RUB."}, {"response": 40, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "Shane, I'm not saying the feeling is exclusive to Harley, just pervasive. I think that virtually all Harley riders enjoy that \"narcotic\" sensation every time they hit their saddle! That sensation is something magical, and it seems to bond the riders and the company like nothing else I have ever seen. Frank, Mr. Paulsen is from New Mexico. I plan to buy the book, and I'll post a review when I finish. You still haven't read Pierson's book have ya? Shame, shame, everyone knows your name! Talk is not cheap--it's 21 bucks! hehe"}, {"response": 41, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (17:21)", "body": "if H-D get's the production levels up to where\"you can buy your bike off the showroom floor\", then WHY would you pay some greedy shmoe who buys a bike for \"profit turn around\" purposes. If you remember I said the exact same thing earlier. The only way to make it easy and cheaper to get a Harley is for production to go up. Do you think they'll have production up to 200,000 units next year? If they lower the prices before the production goes up, shysters will take advantage. Heck, if you had a guaranteed profit of $5000 for a week's worth of work, would you do it? No, probably not, but many would."}, {"response": 42, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (17:28)", "body": "f my local dealership has the bike \"I want\" in stock at MSRP, then I'd be \"NUTS\" for paying a \"huge markup\" to some rip-off artist! Most Jap/Euro dealerships sell at MSRP and Brad is very right that given a \"good deal\" I'd be more willing to \"spend the bucks at my dealer\" for accessiories and service. I agree. But if there are 110,000 Harleys to go around, and 300,000 people want them, where is your dealer going to get a bike? If they force prices down, there will be more gouging by \"rip-off artists\" (it happens even now, as much as the dealers charge, can you imagine if HD increased the margin for these shysters even more?) Why do the other dealers have bikes in stock and at MSRP? Because the supply is close to the demand. BMW and Honda and Suzuki, etc., have the capability to produce as many bikes as are wanted, meaning the prices stay low and availability stays up. The problem with \"price fixing\" is that you can't take any part of the equation out. It's not some \"magic hand\" to come down and make everything nice for the consumer. If supply is much less than demand, one of two things will happen--price will go up and availabilty will remain about the same, or the price will remain the same but no one (except the lucky few) will be able to get a bike. The whole reason you're able to consider the Sporty is because of its markup. We wouldn't be having this conversation now if the bike was $1000 cheaper because it would have already been sold."}, {"response": 43, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (17:33)", "body": "They charged me $300 setup for the Tracker, but they were honest (about one thing, anyway). They had a sign that said \"this represents extra profit to the dealer for setup, cleaning, inspection, etc.\" The reason it's less for a car is because there are more models and dealers to chose from--more competition. If the Ford dealer charges $300 and the Chevy dealer charges $800, where are you going to go? But even in this big old town, there is basically one bike dealer, so he'll get away with what he wants. But we all work for a living and try to make money. I'm not going to hold this against him. Besides, if I don't like how he treats me, I can always drive down I-25 to Colorado Springs."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (21:34)", "body": "Or toss a Molotov through his window! (You can tell I'm back in Jamaica, can't you?)"}, {"response": 45, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (22:33)", "body": "You know what they say--there's no problem so big that you can't fix it with violence!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (10:16)", "body": "Jon, your unbridled laissez-faire argument is interesting, but not terribly business savvy IMHO. Certainly most of the dealerships in my area have not embraced your position. Why? Because, the number of customers willing to cough up a premium is comparitively small, and even if someone bought the bike at premium, they usually go to a \"more honest\" MSRP dealer for accessories, parts, and service. A reputation is a terrible thing to waste. The customer perception of a premium dealer is \"thief\" like it or not. Turns out that most folks would rather wait a year or 18 months for a fair deal than pay a gouging dealer a big margin. The gougers always have bikes on the floor and must prey on the few pay-to-play customers to stay alive. When customers are treated right (as the customer perceives it), they come back again and again. Smart dealerships (and businesses in general) know that ripoffs today won't feed the bulldog tomorrow. BTW, MSRP dealerships are not as stupid as you think. They have lots of ways of screening people and keeping bikes out of the hands of profiteers, such as steep deposits, zip code restrictions, long lines, and short-term right of first refusal contracts--not what the shysters want. They also have ways of finding out about those who abuse the system and black-listing them. The truth is that most higher priced bikes in the paper are either heavily modified, or sold out of legitimate need/desire. Of course, if the owner can get a high price, then they usually will--so what. But, IMHO, the private conspiracy stuff you lament is not nearly as wide-spread or insidious as the organized ripoffs by unscrupulous dealers. It's a HOG-eat-dog world out there!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "Jon, ya I see your points, the old \"if yer gona play, your gona have to pay\" saying. You have a strong point, as my local Harley dealer has \"bikes on the floor\" for sale and the Englewood, CO. dealer has \"no bikes\" on his floor because he \"pre-sell's\" them and the Colorado Springs dealer won't do that with the majority of his stock. Brad, the sporster is \"not totally\" out of the question as I once stated, it's just gona cut me close to the bone and if it was a MSRP it would make the deal much easier! When it comes to custom/cruiser style machines, IMHO H-D has the \"look\" down pat. As far a requiring more maintance, I figure it's like owning my \"old style\" R-series BMW's, something minor was always being replaced and it seemed to require a \"lot of factory required maintance\", after all BMW has a level 1 inspection at 4000 miles and t en a level 2 (much more expensive) at 8000 miles intervals. The Japanese make the less maintance intensive bikes but the cruisers seem to all have a \"certain cookie cutter style\" with the 60's style Intruder being the best IMNHO. Harley's have a personal appeal to me so now that I understand the economics better I will see if my economics can come up to purchase a Harley! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (11:07)", "body": "I hear ya BJ. Listen, if you really want an HD, consider holding off on accessories, waiting a bit longer to save more $$, or buying a used one. Sportster prices are more competitive on the used market because there are so many out there. Many have low miles because the owners are moving up to a Big Twin. If I hear of any \"steal deals\" I'll let ya know. I know the idea of waiting to buy a new bike is a total drag, but the satisfaction of owning the bike you really want usually makes it worthwhile. As far as accessories, there are tons of deals out there on new and used seats, pipes, etc. Shop around. I would not let that make or break your deal. BTW, if you opt for a 1200 conversion ($450 kit) on an 883, just make sure the mechanic replaces the base gaskets with copper ones. That should eliminate any leak situation. There is a season for every purpose under Heaven"}, {"response": 49, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (11:21)", "body": "Whoa. Have we started talking about government controls of Harley Davidson prices? All this talk of \"dealers should charge MSRP\" and \"HD should force dealers to charge MSRP\" could exist in a completely unbridled laissez-faire. I think that HD and the dealers should be allowed to handle their distribution however they see fit. But I've got to get to work. More on this later! :-)"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (12:43)", "body": "I think that HD and the dealers should be allowed to handle their distribution however they see fit. They do Jon--government has nothing to do with it. However, one ingrediant has changed. That is, HD challenged the old restriction on setting retail prices and the Supreme Court unanimously agreed with them. The SC said HD and other manufacturers should be allowed to enforce MSRP for their machines. That will certainly give the Motor Company more leverage with dealers to control the price gouging--although it is not fool proof. Bottom line--HD wants to keep good relations with customers, including fa r prices. I say yippie, and more power to them! A happy customer is the best customer!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (17:48)", "body": "Brad, Even though my perspective of HD is far different than yours in many ways, I totally agree with you on the pricing aspect. HD is in it for the long term and would like to \"punish\" the dealers selling over MSRP. The number of dealers selling at these ripoff prices is perhaps only 20% or less of all dealers. Most people will wait the 12 to 18 months rather than pay the ripoff prices. HD doesn't really care if a small number of profiteers rip people off--this has no bearing on the company. When things ventually become rational--the Harley buying public will never forget the dealerships that ripped them off in the 90's. With any luck, these dealerships will be the first to see bankrupcy. This reminds me of a t-shirt I saw that said \"GOD FORGIVES--OUTLAWS DON'T!!. This only underscores the fact that no one likes to be ripped off. You said it very well when you said \"A happy customer is the best customer!\" Hoop"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (18:08)", "body": "Thanks Hoop. I only hope one day we no longer have to debate this ugly issue. Although we may disagree from time to time, we have one important thing in common--a sincere appreciation of the Harley-Davidson motorcycle! The Motor Company knows their biggest asset is the rider, not their dealerships"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (22:07)", "body": "Brad: There is a season for every purpose under Heaven From the book of Ecclestiastes, which contains my personal motto: \"Meaningless! Meaningless!\" says the Teacher. Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless!\" - Ecclestiastes 1:2 This argument about Harley prices would probably be considered \"yet another meaningless thing under the sun\" :-]"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (22:10)", "body": "OOPS! I forgot to re-open the quotation marks! THat should read: \"Meaningless! Meaningless!\" says the Teacher. \"Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless!\" - Ecclesiastes 1:3 (correct this time!)"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (22:12)", "body": "Why am I always making errors here? It is actually Ecclesiastes 1: 2 !!! (I also have \"That\" with two caps, but at least that's not part of the quote!)"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (08:59)", "body": "I have mostly stayed out of the debates about the HD \"practices\" re pricing, and selling of their stock, but the particular thread sort of follows a disccusion a group of my motorcycling friends had over dinner the other night. Even though for a long period, you negotiated your best price and then went on the waiting list after plunking down your earnest money, among the 8 of us that were there, we all knew the same 3 people who at the local dealership, paid cash for their rides. Each of those had no waits for their bike, but miraculously had the ride they wanted within a matter of a couple of days, even though most were waiting 8 months for this particular model. One even got a bike that was sitting on the floor, with a \"sold\" ticket on it. No point to this, except to sling a little mud, and provide some more fuel to keep the fire bright. Ed"}, {"response": 57, "author": "planeman", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (18:46)", "body": "I'm glad I stirred up some interesting thoughts with my question \"why a Harley\". The comments read like a course on economics. I've just posted a new topic that should start some thinking - \" What makes that good ol'Harley Sound?\" I just did it this morning. Purchased a 1987 Harley FLHTC Road King from a nice young lawyer (hell, everybody looks young to me these days!) for an even ten grand. Looks like new and is 100% Harley just as it came out of the showroom. I couldn't bring myself to pay the outrageous premium of a new one and after a lot of looking this one seemed to be well taken care of and the price reasonable - at least I think it was reasonable. Tell me guys, did I pay too much? You are right about being annoyed at the Harley dealer about the overcharge for a new one. I could have bought a new one off the floor - FOR $20,000! Needless to say, I went this afternoon not to the dealer but to a Harley aftermarket shop and picked up a helmet and ordered a set (pair?) of leather chaps. Looked at a jacket too but didn't buy. I will soon. I'm just a sweet ol' guy who wants to ride. After getting fitted out I'm gonna look like I'm ready to rape and pillage! Somebody needs to offer some le thers that keep us old farts from looking like renegades from Hollister - Gucci maybe? Good ridin'."}, {"response": 58, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (19:18)", "body": "Whoa! Congratulations & best luck! A Road King for 10G's? Pretty damn good if you ask me. No Gucci, Rufus. While that leather feels like butter it would melt even faster if go forbid you ever stepped off. Check Road Gear or a Chaparral catalog, you'll find something."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (19:54)", "body": "Planeman, Congratulations on your purchase. Harley didn't produce the Road King until 1994. You should learn this immediately. Your bike is often called a bagger, an Electra Glide, or a dresser. At $10,000, it sure sounds like you made a good deal. Condition is everything. If it looks like new--it has obviously been well taken care of. If you replace any of the stock items such as exhaust, carbs, seat, ignition, etc--make absolute certain you keep the stock items--one day this bike may be a collectible classic--the stock items will only add to its value. Have fun and enjoy! Hoop"}, {"response": 60, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (21:09)", "body": "Yeah I was confused by the date and the \"FLHTC\" which I though was the 'Glise Tour Classic, but you said 'King... Anywaay, what a bike!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (23:49)", "body": "Planeman, was that a 87 FLHTC or 97 and Hoop is right if it has hard saddle bags and a fairing and tour trunk it's a Electra-Glide, other wise known as the King of the Highway from the olden days! Nice Evo touring rig, just don't do to much high-performance engine mods on it as my friends dad has screwed up a beautiful 90th. Aniversary FLHTC and the motor has been rebuilt 4 times and has lost all of it's \"reliability\" and it a touring bike ain't reliable, in my book it's \"useless\"! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 62, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (00:23)", "body": "It must be a 87, the price corresponds quite well. I have never heard of a Big Twin Evo motor having to be rebuilt 4 times because of high-performance mods. Do you happen to know what modifications were actually performed? Hoop"}, {"response": 63, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (00:47)", "body": "Hoop, Iam no expert it's been rebulit using 4 differnt kit's from aftermarket speed products, the last as the best so far is by Eldonbrock , heads, cams, ect. The 1st. rebulid was with the cylinders, head, cams, ect. of the one company the \"clone makers\" like to use! Wish I was better with a the brand names but it constantly broke down with failures of different types, sometimes on the first run after the rebuild. The first one was buy a Harley Dealer, the 2nd-3rd. was done by a local independent shop and the 4th. was done inhouse with the help of some Harley hop-up guru, who Si's dad paid to come out and do the work! Yes, they have more money than I can imagine and that is a lot, ha ha!! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (02:12)", "body": "Good luck with the Electra-Glide, Planeman! While I personally think the Electra-Glide is big & ugly (it's the top box more that the fairing that turns me off, I figured it out!), if it's what you want then it's YOUR ride and my opinion isn't worth a s#!+, so enjoy! BTW, if you used to wrench your bikes in your BSA days then you'll probably find it easier to do on your Harley than on the Japanese or European bikes (with the possible exception of Moto Guzzi) but you may have to do more of it (with the same possible exception...)"}, {"response": 65, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (03:40)", "body": "Congrats, Planeman!"}, {"response": 66, "author": "yves", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (03:48)", "body": ""}, {"response": 67, "author": "yves", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (03:54)", "body": "Ooops Have to write before submitting... Happy for you Planeman, when you buy a bike you buy a BIKE!!!! P.S. I warning you for a detail. Sometimes when we're on those machine, we're getting under 20 years old :o))) Have as fun as I get."}, {"response": 68, "author": "yves", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (03:56)", "body": "Ooops Have to write before submitting... Happy for you Planeman, when you buy a bike you buy a BIKE!!!! P.S. I warning you on a detail. Sometimes when we're on those machine, we're getting under 20 years old (I'm 49 and it's happened to me lot of times)) :o))) Have as fun as I get."}, {"response": 69, "author": "yves", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (04:03)", "body": "Time to go to bed, I foget and repeat."}, {"response": 70, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (09:36)", "body": "At least you're not doing all that to biblical quotes, as I was!"}, {"response": 71, "author": "planeman", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (20:25)", "body": "Hoop is right! The machine I bought is a 1987 Harley FLHTC Electra Glide Tour Classic, black with red pin striping. I've looked a so many bikes these last couple of months they all run together in my mind. The guy I bought it from called it a Road King but it wasn't. Kind of looks like one with the front faring and all. I checked into my little \"bible\", the Harley Davidson Buyers Guide by Allan Girdler and confirmed it's the bike above. It has an interesting little history. The young lawyer that sold it to me said it wa originally purchased by his best friend who was later murdered in a robbery when he and his wife came out of a swish reataurant in Charleston, S.C. The wife left the bike in the garage for two years un-ridden. She then sold the bike to the best friend who hasn't ridden it much (so he says). He claims he has known the bike from the day it was purchased and it has been garaged, been carefully maintained, and is unmodified in any way. The lawyer and his wife are having their first child and she told him to et rid of it. He offered it at $13,000 a few weeks ago but dropped it to ten grand to get rid of it as the weather is getting really cold and he is getting too much static from the \"other half\". Bad weather is getting ready to set in here (rain and sleet) so the first chance I'll get to ride will probably be this next weekend. Still gotta get a license."}, {"response": 72, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (21:53)", "body": "He's a lawyer, though, so who knows what part of what he told you was true? ;-)"}, {"response": 73, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "Definitely get a license. It's so easy, I can't think of any reason not to."}, {"response": 74, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (02:36)", "body": "I guess they're strapped for cash, why else would his wife be so insistant on selling the bike? According to y'all, spring is the sellers' time! Do wives really put on that much pressure? Maybe I shouldn't be moaning my bachelor status! \"Well they're Putting up resistance But I know That my faith Will lead me on.\" - Sitting Here In Limbo - Jimmy Cliff"}, {"response": 75, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (09:50)", "body": "Planeman: First, congrats on the Harley. That is an awesome motorcycle and the price was a gift. Second, get into an MSF rider course ASAP. Having your license is not the same thing as being prepared to actually ride. The FLH is a big bike with it's own handling characteristics. Take your time and learn that bike inside and out, and you'll enjoy it for years to come. BTW, pipes, carb. jets and a Screamin Eagle airbox will have NO detrimental affect on reliability, and will significantly improve the bike's overall performance. The guys with problems are the ones performing open EVO surgery. Planeman is flying now baby!"}, {"response": 76, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (10:14)", "body": "I'll post on wives & bikes later, Sam (o;{"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (10:16)", "body": "Congrats! and Brad is right about screaming Eagle and what is called a \"power course\" over here to help you learn how to handle the weight/power of a big machine. Enjoy it!"}, {"response": 78, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (11:56)", "body": "Maybe your emoticon for \"wives and bikes\" should be )o;"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (12:09)", "body": "Sometimes I think my wife is my bike! hehe"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (12:36)", "body": "um? The hot, chromed one is your wife, no your bike, ok I can see the problem :)"}, {"response": 81, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (12:56)", "body": "Now if I could just get them both together at the same time! hehe She's beautiful, great seat, nice legs, well appointed, and always there for me! \"Your wife or your bike?\" Yes!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "SMACK! I must not get smutty, I must not get smutty, I must not get smutty....... :)"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (13:19)", "body": "I have to watch my sense of humour sometimes, or I'll get into trouble with the auditors!"}, {"response": 84, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (17:15)", "body": "I'm thinkin' that with comparatively few exceptions, Bikes and Wives don't mix. Key word \"comparatively\". I was going to start on this when I read in one of the recent mags about the guy in *DC* who \"got rid of the wife\" and now has the entire house furnished with topline Ducatis, with the exceptional MV750 in the kitchen. Says he's very happy, and that \"Ducatis and women don't mix, because they (women) can't compete for the affection/ attention the bikes always get from the owners. Let me tell you, I kno of several divorces involving Ducati-guys, one my own best mechanic! Is this weird? Doesn't seem to apply as regulary to the other marques? Anyone dare a comment...?"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (17:33)", "body": "There may be a few HOG riders that would challenge that notion Frank! I think wives and husbands must share common interests. If biking is the primary interest for one and not the other, it can become an issue. It shouldn't be surprising that some folks lose sight of their relationship for other activites, like golf, poker, hunting, you name it. Remember, 50 percent of all couples don't make it for a multitude of reasons anyway, so the law of averages is probably about the same, with or without a two-wheeled steel mistress. IMHO, it's just easier to point to one thing a d say that's what caused it. Most likely, people are either compatible or not, and sometimes people just naturally grow apart. In many cases, the bike is not the cause of the breakdown--it is the result! Paging Dr. Frazier Krane! Come to the psych ward immediately!"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (18:51)", "body": "Keep talkin' Brad.... I agree, it can be anything, but the many Italian-bike guys in divorce is noticeable to me. What gets me is, I think I mentioned, when I was dating my wife it was so fine to be a dashing cafe-girlfriend, then a comlete turnaround after marriage, with MANY remarks about how I pay too much attention to bikes in general and mine for sure, etc. The BJ's and Tonys and Shanes are lucky indeed."}, {"response": 87, "author": "Shane", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (19:34)", "body": "This guy got LUCKY!!! this is marridge #3 for me and when we started talking about it I had to be straight forward... THE BIKES WILL NEVER GO AWAY!... Fortunatly she likes to ride as much as I do and agreed or I would be single today...."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (09:40)", "body": "Frank, the more we talk the more I realize just how much in common our lives are! Maybe if we get together, our wives can bond through mutual commiseration. hehe I'm sorry honey, she won't let me ride you today! hehe"}, {"response": 89, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (22:00)", "body": "I would say that you must share *some* interests. There's nothing wrong with liking fishing, poker, bikes, etc. If you're going to wait until you find a woman who has those interests, you may be waiting forever. On the other hand, if you can learn to budget your time so that your hobbies don't consume you, and you do have things you can share, each person can have their own individual interests and the relationship can be strong. Poker and fishing? That's what buddies are for!"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Shane", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "Oh, The wife loves to Fish, Plays Poker machines habitually, shares a small interest in the computer, and reads my Guns and Ammo......... Life is GOOD....."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (00:20)", "body": "Jon: If you're going to wait until you find a woman who has those interests, you may be waiting forever. Wouldn't a woman with those interests be worth the wait? Shared interests would IMO reduce the amount and severity of conflicts! One wonders what the other 50%, the ones who worked it out, would have to say about that? \"My woman left me, She didn't say why...\" - Many Rivers To Cross - Jimmy Cliff"}, {"response": 92, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (01:02)", "body": "Forever, Sam? I think you should have your wife (with common things that you enjoy doing together) and your buddies (with not necessarily the same things that you enjoy with your wife). If you spent 100% of your time with your woman, it would get dull."}, {"response": 93, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (06:25)", "body": "I am personally not of the opinion that a disagreeable woman is better than none at all. If I can't find someone tolerable, then that's just too bloody bad. \"Don't know that I will, But until I can find me A girl who will stay And won't play Games behind me, I'll be what I am; A solitary man.\" - Solitary Man - Neil Diamond"}, {"response": 94, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (06:56)", "body": "It may be a little late but, my co-partner in crime always recconed to catch them young and bring them up right! I was 15 when I first met him (he was 20), had my first bike by 16 and my mother gave up by the time I was 17 (but she rides pillion with me now - \"but dont tell your father\" unfortunately for those of you over 22, the world tends to frown upon \"cradle snatching\" but women who love bikes are out there, and some are unattached! :) There are also some \"late developers\" who find bikes after 16, there are 3 lasses at work who in the last 2 years have passed their tests and got bikes, initially as transport but have now become totaly enthralled with the whole biking world. Seek and ye shall find?"}, {"response": 95, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (11:02)", "body": "I agree with Jon and Shebee here. In a small way I've missed the boat (o;! Didn't catch one young and hang on! And the way jon puts it is mostly true, BUT I bet you,ve not lived with someone for too long eh Jon? So that you've grown tired of distracting remarks, etc. That's where Sam's philosophy starts to sound veerrry attractive."}, {"response": 96, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (12:13)", "body": "It's all a balancing act. The more you have in common, the more you respect each other, and the more you commit yourself the greater the odds of success. That doesn't mean you can't be different and still make it work. Some do, and some with lots of stuff in common don't. There is no rule book. But just like motorcycles--as soon as you think you have it (or him or her) completely figured out, you're definitely in big trouble! Relationships are moving targets! I gave my wife everything!--just like the judge ordered me to do! hehe"}, {"response": 97, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (09:33)", "body": "Boy, I guess Iam the odd man out here, see I'd rather spend time with my wife than even my best male friend. We RIDE, that's our mainstay in this long strange trip called life. We also go on walks, dream of taking a WindJammer cruise and meeting Sam in person in the Islands someday, see movies,etc. Jo, knits, makes handmade wedding vales,etc, I spend my other life hacking on the web tv and constantly restrucering my web site but we are still together. The problem is that humans put to much in \"material\" things, house, new car, 60\" big screen, computer and husband's and wives develop the \"MINE SYNDROME\". Instead of sharing what each other do, the create their \"own little worlds\". Here's an example, I couldn't careless about JO's \"homey hobbies\" but I will glue on beads our get stuff for her and as she works on her stuff, I play on the WWW and we talk. You must find a way to \"share the joy's\". One of the other \"BIG\" problems is that most married people with KIDs, \"forgot how to be a couple\", the marriage must \"COME FIRST\" and though the kids are a \"close second\" the \"couple\" is the true foundation of the marriage, if the couple grows apart then the family has a \"very weak foundation\" and each seek joy and fullfillment usually \"IN MATERIAL THINGS\". Frank, I can see why Ducati rider wife's feel leftout as most of the Duck owners I have known are \"fantics\" to a point and some to exteems! See Harley riders have an advantge, the Style of the bike makes it \"easier to share\" with your soulmate, Ducatis are almost \"designed\" with the solo rider in mind. The other point is the \"preceived danger\" the mate see's for their spouse, hopefully this is \"love\" motovaited and not \"support (ie: MONEY), motovaited, if so you must \"talk out the fear\" to create a comfo t zone. If it's support movataited, YOU ARE TOAST!!!! Nothing you do will create a \"comfort zone\", and all you can do is stand your ground or the spouse will steal your soul and chain you down so he/she can have their \"comfort zone\". If you have a good basic relationship, work hard to find a true communication between each other. You want to \"understand\" each other, not just \"tolerarate\" each other, it can be accomplished but it takes real work and real love! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 98, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (10:00)", "body": "Are you sure you're not a marriage councilor or an advice columnist BJ? Damn good points! Dear Doctor BJ...hehe"}, {"response": 99, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (10:05)", "body": "BJ YES! Its all down to loving enough to give and take, and getting joy from your partners pleasure."}, {"response": 100, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "Hey Brad, Move over..... There has to be more room on that leather couch.... Good points all BJ!..."}, {"response": 101, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (10:58)", "body": "BJ, Boom! Ya blew me away on that one! Countersunk the nail! Perfect! Another print-out for *me*! You are exactly right about the solo-orientation and fanaticism of most of the (Italo)cafe riders, it's true. A little surising that so few ladies appreciate non-cruisers though..."}, {"response": 102, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (14:32)", "body": "*Sniffle, sniffle.*"}, {"response": 103, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (23:52)", "body": "It'll be good seeing you out here, BJ; just reminding you that I'm in Jamaica. Wouldn't want you going to the wrong island or anything! If I were looking for someone with shared interests, I'd end up with a cynical, paranoic miser who liked music, bikes and talking about revolution, blood & fire. Wonder if there's really a girl like that out there... Actually, that's part of the attraction of a motorbike to me. It's a bit more social than me bicycle; you can actually offer someone a ride!"}, {"response": 104, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (10:16)", "body": "They're out there Sam, believe me they're out there! (o;{"}, {"response": 105, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (19:30)", "body": "Oops, got carried away huh, well Iam just really lucky, finding a soulmate isn't easy but as one famous person stated: Better to have lost at Love, than to have never loved at all! Frank, a lot of the Lady riders I know are just much more practical than men, they buy and ride a bike that \"makes sense\" and they buy it with their \"brain\" and not there heart and soul like we men do. Take the 2 800 intruders we are getting, her's is Red, she thinks it pretty and doesn't want loud pipes on it, she's getting bags, tank belt, ect. with \"Red Roses\" inlayed on them a small windshield and she will be happy with that bike till we passaway! Me, mines pure black, mean, nasty, can't wait to core out the pipes for more putt sound. I figure due to Moto-Lust, I will own the bike up untill the bank see's fit to forget about the bankrupty and will lend me money! Hell, as I signed the papers for the Intruder, I was looking over a CBR1100XX, Royal Star hard-bagger and a beautiful red/cream Triumph Tiger leftover and wishing I could have all 3 bikes! See we males have moto-lust to a \"extreem\" factor Only \"True RUB's\" can buy a bike for \"INVESTMENT PURPOSES\" IMHO! The rest of us Lust and Dream of the new machine in the future! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 106, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "up untill the bank see's fit to forget about the bankrupty and will lend me money! Speaking o' which, when's the discharge? You can start loaning money after that, right? You've got the same problem I have (actually, SEVERAL of the same problems I have)--You want every bike. With the exception of cruisers, which I'm not much into, I could see myself owning anything from a sport tourer (something to run down to Texas for a 16 hour day) to a crotch rocket (something to spin around in the mountains in) to a pavement burner like the XX (something to put down to Texas on an 8 hour day.... ) to a T-bird, etc. As Gene Autry said, \"I never met a bike I didn't like\". Er, well, something like that."}, {"response": 107, "author": "yves", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (02:37)", "body": "Ohh If money was growing in trees, I would have a 1400 intruder for the look and power, a vymax for my pleasure, a st 1100 for traveling, a cruiser for my wife's comfort,........but."}, {"response": 108, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (10:15)", "body": "Hmm.. Money no object...H-D Road King for North Coasting, Kawasaki KLR650, and either a Suzuki GS500E or a Honda 250 Nighthawk as an everyday commuter bike(if Honda still made a 450 Nighthawk, I wouldn't have that choice! But it seems that only Suzuki has a standard air-cooled 500; Kawasaki has a 500 cruiser & a 500 sportbike, both water-cooled) Then again, the KLR would be better than the H-D for North Coasting, and stronger than the GS500E or Nighthawk for commuting (although maybe not as manoeuverable), so..."}, {"response": 109, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (12:20)", "body": "Corporate Harley is at it again. The Motorcycle Online daily news of 12/8 reports Harley is suing a porno film maker because they \"prominently\" used the Harley name in the movie. According to the article, the Motor Co was contacted by a \"deeply religious\" man that would not buy a Harley because it was associated with porn. Excuse me--but what on earth would a deeply religious person be doing viewing a porn movie? If you buy Harleys version of this story, I have a great deal for you on some swampland! The \"new\" Harley--don't associate us with anything obscene!! Hoop"}, {"response": 110, "author": "yves", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (14:03)", "body": "What's te title please? Sam I forgot. A DR or XT 350 for commuting and soft off road, or maybe a KLR 650 (with a lowering kit as I'm a normal person). If ever I get to Jamaica, a D.P. would be my choice, I think."}, {"response": 111, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (14:24)", "body": "The local dealer for Jialing bikes (joint venture between Honda and the Jialing armaments company in China) is having a clearance sale. A 125 cc D-P going for J$85,000 that sold last year for about J$125,000! Sounds good; I wish I had the money!"}, {"response": 112, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (16:44)", "body": "I agree with Yves...what's the name? I have never seen a naked H-D that I didn't like! Ed"}, {"response": 113, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (19:43)", "body": "LOL! Hee. What's the exchange rate, Sam?"}, {"response": 114, "author": "TRA", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (01:59)", "body": "money no object:Kawasaki KLR 650,Royal Star tour classic II(tan bags and seat),Triumph T-Bird Sport, Norton Fastback Comando(red & silver metalflake) and an FLHTCI Electra Glide Classic Anniversary Edition plus anything else that catches my fancy.Do I have \"moto-lust\"?? can you say \"terminal\" Happy TRAils/NSD Paul"}, {"response": 115, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (09:57)", "body": "Hoop, I saw the HD porn story on NBC news as well as MO. I believe HD is suing because the \"actors\" weren't wearing Motorclothes! ;-) Dogs on Hogs , produced by Thunderous Head Productions"}, {"response": 116, "author": "yves", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (13:00)", "body": "Wasn't pipe question?"}, {"response": 117, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (20:21)", "body": "About J$36 to US$1"}, {"response": 118, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (20:22)", "body": "Just asked my folks: between J$38 and J$40 for US$1, maybe will plummet after the election."}, {"response": 119, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (10:50)", "body": "Well, I got my Road King back yesterday with the new Stage 2 kit for fuel-injection installed. The kit includes a new computer \"map\" for timing, rev. limit (moved from 5 to 6,000), and fuel flow, as well as new FI jets (40% more flow), a cam (made by Andrews and similar to the EV27), and Screamin Eagle high flow air cleaner. First thing I noticed was how much more exaggerated the lumpy exhaust note is. The new bump stick (cam) has a much wider set of lobes for increased duration and during warm-up the bike sounds almost like it's going to cut out, although it never does. Once warmed and rolling, the new setup offers buckets of roll-on power. At 60 mph in 5th gear, a throttle twist will send your butt to the back of the seat. I'll have her on a Dyno for an exact measurement of the torque and horsepower output, but my initial reaction is a whopping big grin! Lion King!"}, {"response": 120, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (12:27)", "body": "Good to hear of the success Brad! Sounds like everything's right on that bike. Is yours lowered?"}, {"response": 121, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (14:19)", "body": "Frank, I haven't lowered the bike, but I may sometime in the future. I like the idea of a lower center of gravity, but I really don't relish the possibility of bashing my fishtail pipes into curbes! ;-) Crunch! Ah %%$#!!!"}, {"response": 122, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (14:27)", "body": "I don't think it's the CG that gets 'em lowered, it's the \"look\". Me I'd hate to ground anything, too easy on that bike for sure."}, {"response": 123, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (14:53)", "body": "Actually Frank, it's both looks and function. A lot of guys tell me the bike handles better after lowering. Definitely looks good too. But I hate scrapping parts, and I am comfortable where it is for now. I think I'll enjoy the Stage II for a while before I spend any more money! I've seriously lowered my cash flow!"}, {"response": 124, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (03:35)", "body": "It can't handle better because of one major component of handling--clearance. I've ridden with Harleys and they always look like they're fixing to put something down, forcing you to slow down. Lowering it would make it worse. That's one thing I didn't like about the RStar--you would start touching metal down very fast."}, {"response": 125, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (15:00)", "body": "Yeah, but the RS floorboards have a metal insert where they touch. It's made specifically for touching down. You wear out the insert..just replace it. The floorboards fold up, so there's no problem..though it takes a little getting used to hearing that scraping sound when you touch down. If I lean any farther to have something solid touch down..I'm going to fast in the corners."}, {"response": 126, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (15:06)", "body": "Yeah, the RS has a major disadvantage in its width and lowness, making ground clearance pretty sparse."}, {"response": 127, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (10:14)", "body": "Don't most of the FAT cruisers have this same problem? They sure look low to me and except for the Shadow the big boys toys come mostly with floorboards don't they! Cruiser's just aren't ment for going fast! I seriously doubt that was given any real consideration. Except for maybe the Valk, as it started out to be a \"True Power Cruiser\" (aka: V-Max style), then Honda changed it to a big heritage style machine to compete with the Royal Star. That's why I decide to go with the Nighthawk over the Intruder as I still like to \"kick it up a little\" in the twisty's and figured the \"standard\" would work better than the \"cruiser\". Cruiser's are for \"stop and smell the roses riding\", looking good down at the local hangout and possible light touring duty. If you leave the fast out of the cruiser, you will be a lot happier with your purchase. To me hopping up the motor on a \"Dresser\" is just pure macho vanitiy, the bike will do it's designed job excellently in \"STOCK FORM\". If you want fast, shut up and buy a V-Max, Magna or a sportbike, they where made to go fast. I know, I know BJ is full of himself again, ha ha!! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 128, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (11:07)", "body": "It can't handle better because of one major component of handling--clearance. I've ridden with Harleys and they always look like they're fixing to put something down, forcing you to slow down. Lowering it would make it worse. That is certainly true for Softails Jon (and lots of riders could care less about such things if they achieve \"the look\"). By contrast, the King has a lot of clearance in stock form and handles the twisties with grace and stability. The idea of a lower center of gravity is appealing, but obviously it would require giving up a bit of clearance. Would it be enough to cause sparks? Maybe, depending on how low one goes. Most of the guys I know that have lowered their Kings an inch or so find it to be an improvement under most conditions, but I haven't YET had the opportunity to take one of their bikes into an aggressive corner to find out! I presume one could compensate by stiffening the shocks, but that is also a compromise in ride comfort. Guess it depends on your own priorities, ey? She's a real bump and grinder! ;-)"}, {"response": 129, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (13:08)", "body": "My (limited) 'King-riding experience tells me that \"aggressive\" riding only applies in the straights and on-ramps, where you become a cop in your mind for a few secs! The bike by nature and layout just has a wallowy feeling that makes pushing down into a bend a waste let alone a knuckle-whitener. \"Graceful\" is a very apt adjective for the Road King."}, {"response": 130, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:25)", "body": "True, BJ, but the Harley engine (and most V-twins) is half as wide as the V-4 in the Star. There was nothing Yamaha could do to get around this--it's a relatively wide engine. They all have crummy clearance compared to my Ninja, but the Star is a little worse."}, {"response": 131, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:27)", "body": "If your buying a big tourer like the RS or King, you shouldn't be into trying to ride it like a sport bike..though every now and then you want to have some fun. I like ol' Dennis' idea of different colored metals for those little scraping pads under the RS floorboards. Maybe red and green for this time of year..just touch down and set off those colored sparks. Switch to red and blue for around the 4th of July. *GRiNs* I took my buddies 87 Venture for a ride yesterday (since I have it in my garage for the Winter). For a bike that has the same guts as my RS..I'd have no problem out running an RS, King or almost any big bike in the twisties. The Venture is surprisingly nimble in the corners. Of course you sit on it like a sport bike..with your feet tucked up under butt on the pegs. I should have bought the thing when I had the chance for $3k. It has less miles on it than my RS."}, {"response": 132, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "Hey, why not use Magnesium? Touch it down and they *stay* lit up!"}, {"response": 133, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (16:08)", "body": "If you leave the fast out of the cruiser, you will be a lot happier with your purchase. To me hopping up the motor on a \"Dresser\" is just pure macho vanitiy, the bike will do it's designed job excellently in \"STOCK FORM\". BJ, power isn't just about top speed, it's also about acceleration! You think twisties are the only place where power and performance count? Cruisers and dressers might be more laid back as a general rule, but when other vehicles are in your path, power to pass or to get out of the way is kinda handy ya know? As far as I'm concerned, the more power I have at my disposal, the better! BTW, as far as the macho vanity stuff goes, I hardly ever ride in my underwear--really! hehe Check out this profile baby! ;-)"}, {"response": 134, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (16:26)", "body": "Jon, can you get magnesium in different colors? *GRiNs* Brad, I was thinking the same thing earlier and forgot to write that into the message. You can't have too much power..even in a big cruiser. When you gotta pass..it's gotta be effortless!"}, {"response": 135, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "I think it burns white. Sorry."}, {"response": 136, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (11:58)", "body": "Uhh, Mg is used as an underwater fuse among other things isn't it? Yes I once taped nails to my bootsides near the little toe to look like I was goin faster than I was on the parkway, got pulled over and lectured about being a wiseguy. No more special F/X thanks!"}, {"response": 137, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "Nails to the bootsides? How long ago was that Frank. How does it make you look like you're going faster? (I must be missing something)"}, {"response": 138, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (15:07)", "body": "Welll, you're leaning and you can stick the outer edge out a little more than you need, when the nail touches down it looks like you're at the clearance limit. Works good on newbies behind ya and cagers. Like putting your taillites on briefly before a corner in a car to make the follower think you're on the brakes. A Cheap trick..."}, {"response": 139, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (17:07)", "body": "Ok, hehe. With the RS you wouldn't need to as it's real easy to touch down with the floorboards just the way it is."}, {"response": 140, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (10:00)", "body": "The Road King is plenty for me, K. I just *sat* on a 'Star at the dealer and holding those tillers and staring through the windshield I just kept thinking \"There's no way you could handle this much metal!\"."}, {"response": 141, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (11:28)", "body": "Power, it's a strange subject. I understand about good passing power Brad, by why then doesn't Harley \"bulid in extra passing power right from the start? It seems like riders of big machine's just \"forget how to downshift\", to get that \"passing power\" needed at the moment. My riding pard's dad has a 90th. Aniversary FLHTCU, and has totally messed up the bike by going for \"MORE POWER\", it's so damn \"unreliable\" now that he had to go out and buy a 97 Electra-Glide Standard to have a bike for long distances he can rely on to be \"trouble free\". The RS riders are always \"crying\" about how the moto-mags \"dump\" on the RS on top end speed (ie: for passing), they state \"just shift down to 4th. gear as 5th. is \"only a overdrive\" so Yamaha didn't dial in \"passing power\" either in thei Big machines. That tell's me that neither manufacturer felt you \"needed\" top end passing power for this style of bike. Even a 500 Ninja, if you drop a gear or 2 will kick some butt and blow away any normal family cage. Sounds like Harley and Yamaha just found a way to \"suck big bucks out of your wallets\" so you could have the \"true amount of needed power\" to pass safely! Jo learned to ride on \"250 Rebel\" and one thing it did was \"teach\" her about figuring out power to pass. While the big machines, just went WFO, Jo had to really calculate distance, speed, etc. I think we are all getting a little spoiled in these modern times. Maybe we all need to do a little more brain work than head work about riding our choosen bikes, just MNSHO. Happy Holidays, BJ"}, {"response": 142, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (11:56)", "body": "You got it BJ, downshifting's an unknown to many a rider; they think if it can't roll on in top it's a weakling. Apparently that's no fun, that thinking/calculating/awareness thing called dropping down when needed. I guess you're only supposed to move the right wrist (minimally) to move around? (o:"}, {"response": 143, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (12:07)", "body": "BJ, factory bikes are designed to meet the needs of the \"average\" rider given a certain level of regulation, price, and performance constraints. While I don't disagree with your overall premise that a person can \"make do\", for my style of riding I felt the Stage 2 was a good investment. The extra punch makes riding the bike more enjoyable for me, plain and simple. I understand the difference between needing something and wanting it--increased performance was clearly a want! Bothers me not the least to say that. The bike ran fine before, but it runs even better now. I don't know what your friend's dad did to his Ultra. If he messed around with motor internals, and mixed and matched parts, then he took a risk. The only mechanical changes on my bike were larger fuel-injection jets and a cam--both designed by HD for their bikes. The kit (including the computer map) was fully tested by HD and has absolutely no affect on the warranty of the motor. Nor should it have any impact on the reliability of the bike. Neither component required opening up the motor. IMHO, it was a conservative upgrade done purely for selfish reasons. Yippie! Now, all I \"need\" is cash! ;-)"}, {"response": 144, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (13:22)", "body": "How'd they get that cam in without opening up the motor, Star Trek-type mechanics? (o;{"}, {"response": 145, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (17:04)", "body": "Fortunately for Scotty, changing a cam doesn't involve open motor surgery. She can't take much more Jim, the rivets are poppin!"}, {"response": 146, "author": "Ed", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (19:41)", "body": "Frank, changing the cam on an 80 cubic inch Harley is no big trick...when you do it on the evo motor, bring bolt cutters tho' so you can remove the stock pushrods without removing the rockers. That is one I don't understand why they put in solid pushrods. Anyway, I can shift the cam in my FLT in about 45 minutes without beer, provided that I don't change out the cage bearing. 'Course, for someone doing it the first time, there is the matter of the breather gear... Ed"}, {"response": 147, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (15:02)", "body": "Now, I thought it was an important thing to change the cage bearing? (Brad knows I've been readin' Thunder Press (o;{)"}, {"response": 148, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (15:07)", "body": "Brad, ok point well taken in the enjoyment of hop up. Still, I have always enjoyed \"running the gears\" on a motorcycle, it seem's you might as well have a \"Turbo Automatic\" with a built in \"passing gear\" on the Dresser's I have even notice \"liter Sportbike\" riders discusing \"I can't get more power out of top gear\"! I think that top gear on most bikes is at least kinda a \"overdrive\" and unless you have a ZX11, downshifting is good for the bike and makes the ride way more fun. Even I plan on some minor pe formance mods on the Nighthawk, jet kit, 4into1 exhaust, K&N airfilter, etc. So enjoy the higher level of performance of the stage 2 kit. Yes, you are right, Si's dad mixed and matched trying to make the Dresser out run his buddy's GL1500 and it will never be the same again. I heard he's thinking of turbo-charging the E-G Standard, some people never learn! Happy New Year, BJ"}, {"response": 149, "author": "Ed", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (19:07)", "body": "Now, I thought it was an important thing to change the cage bearing? Frank, I have changed mine twice in 8 years. I figure that if I was running it up toward red-line routinely, I probably should change it with a cam change out. I run mine at lower RPM, rarely getting it over 4 grand. Lots of oil in there, not too worried about it. Ed"}, {"response": 150, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (20:45)", "body": "Frank, a lot of folks do recommend changing the bearing when you replace the cam--usually an aftermarket bearing with more rollers. However, the Stage 2 kit warranty requires that an HD bearing be used. A new one was put in with the cam. Get your bearings straight!"}, {"response": 151, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (22:49)", "body": "Before you all told me the downside of Slick 50 (which I've never heard my sister complain about; she's used it in her car, a Suzuki Swift), I always thought that the first two things I'd do with a car is give it Slick 50 and K&N filters (air & oil). The advertised advantages of K&N filters are freer flow and reusability. Can someone please tell me the downsides (apart from cost)? Before you all told me, I didn't know the downsides of Slick 50 (what were they again? Engine deposits? Clogged oil passages in journal bearings? Reduced clearances, sometimes turning into interference?)."}, {"response": 152, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "Sam, I have heard that on some bikes with \"stock exhaust\" systems, the K&N let to much air flow and it super leaned out the bike. It seems that most of the time though K&N stock replacement filters always help and are sooo much easier to maintain over the miles.BJ"}, {"response": 153, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (10:27)", "body": "At 160+,000 miles, Slick 50 has caused no problems in my car. If you use the K&N stock-type replacements there shouldn't be any problems; it's when you go to the race-type free-flow filters that usually the (bike) mixture has to be richened slightly, or the idle-screw adjusted slightly from my experience. Noisier intake also (I love it)."}, {"response": 154, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "BJ is correct. Depending on the aircleaner setup, a K&N filter usually allows more airflow and can lean out your bike if it is not jetted correctly. Whenever you change the airflow on a bike, it is important to make sure the fuel/air mix is set correctly; however, as a general principle, a better breathing motor will produce more power. BTW, opening up the airbox without opening up the exhaust is not going to help much--you need more air in, and more air out to get any real advantage. As far as Slick 50 goes, it is a bonding agent that some believe can change motor tolerances. A much touted product today is Milletec, which is an additive that is used in NASCAR racing as well by the military. It is not a coating, and, therefore, requires replacement about every 15,000 miles. However, it has important properties, like the ability to withstand contamiants such as salt and water without changing tolerances. One word of caution--never put anything in your motor unless it is designed to handle the \"slick\" qualities of these additive agents--including synthetic oil. HDs, for example, are not. They require a relatively thick oil. Suck it up and spit it out!"}, {"response": 155, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (12:46)", "body": "Slick 50 was described to me by a mechanic who races cars as \"Stick 50\" I made the inquiry the last time we had some debates about oil and the additives. He was not impressed with the stuff, he admitted that people have great high mileage success with it in cars, but commented that having rebuilt the motors in cars that have run the stuff it was a mess. One BIG word of caution to motorcyclists is the fact that this stuff adheres to everything it touches... One MUST consider WET CLUTCHES!! Constant slippage would inevitably lead to clutch plate replacement. The only additive that I have found to be recommended by motorcyclist's is called \"B-G Additive\". I used it in the KZ to quiet down the rattle that all KZ's have in the tranny and it worked!! No clutch slippage and no problems, it must be replaced with every oil change and I now run it in the Wing, ( ounces per 4 quarts). IMHO, there are NO miracles out there... One must pick a good quality oil, and change it regularly. The frequency of change will vary depending on things like Water/Air cooling, riding conditions, but is the only REAL answer to engine life. Oil absorbes Carbons, Waste, dust etc. and conversely so would a \"Sticky\" product! I would rather change the oil every 3000 and get the crap outta there than \"Hope\" none of the contaniments are still \"Stuck\" in there.... Oil of choice for ever thing I have rode is Castrol 20/50 semi-synthetic. When I recently got tired of buying paper air filters I looked into the K-N's. The guy told me about the prospect of increased air flow and adjusting the \"Richness\" of the mixture, as an option he recommended the UNI closed cell cleanable filter... I bought it ($25.00) and have had no problems what-so-ever."}, {"response": 156, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (14:29)", "body": "I never thought my big RS lacked power when rode stock. The response I get from opening up both ends makes me more confident in the bike because when I twist it a little in a must twist situation..I want it to go. I've actually come to like the tall gears as I do a lot of long distance riding and 5th gear is great around 85 or so. Interesting on the oil. I've been using the Yamalube in the RS and wonder if it's any better (or who makes it for Yamaha..can't imagine a refinery with the Yamaha name on it, though they make pianos, stereos..you name it, hehe). Shane, is the Castrol 20/50 for both auto and mc, or do you use an mc specific? I wonder if the B-G Additive would quiet the bit of whiny sound between 35-40mph in third gear the RS has (due to gears milled to squarely..from my understanding..it has improved some over time). I usually take it up to about 40 in 2nd before shifting so it isn't too noticeable. Who has problems in down-shifting? You're one click away from more power and better response. Who wants to roll-on from less than 3k rpm? Can't be that good for the bike. That's where learning on a dirt bike is good..constantly shifting to find your best power band response."}, {"response": 157, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "I have always used BG EPC, (extreem pressure compound) install every 10,000 miles and it has helped with shifting and quites the bike a tad to. BJ"}, {"response": 158, "author": "TRA", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "Until this year I have always used Kendall Black Label or Valvoline Racing in 20-50 weight.Several bike magazines this year and last have stated that as car manufactures go for higher and higher mileage figures thru decreased friction that the polymers used in CURRENT automotive oils may not lead to long motorcycle engine life.Moderen cars are running at higher temps and closer tolerences and the oil for those situations will not stand up in motorcycle transmissions or work on our wet clutches.I have now gone to a motorcycle specific oil in the Ventures.I did notice that the shifting got better and I did not lose as much in gas milage pulling the trailer.I use Yamalube 20 40 and Maxam 20-50.I use the Yamalube in winter to mid spring(It gets cold in Utah(5 degrees F right now))and the Maxam in the hotter summer months (up to 110 here)"}, {"response": 159, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Mon, Dec 29, 1997 (02:17)", "body": "The Castrol is an Automotive oil, it comes in Petro, Semi-Synthetic, or Synthetic. I have always used Valvoline in the cars/trucks and tried Valvoline 20-50 Racing in the Kawi... Stuff foamed like crazy... Sooo back to the Castrol. Although not MC specific it takes a beating, stays foam free and costs about 1/2 MC specific, I have never had a problem with it. The B-G additive is the closest to a \"Wonder\" additive that I have ever found. BJ is absolutely correct when he says it quiets 'em down. Inline 4 Kawi's are nortorious for Tranny noise and that stuff made 'em almost inaudible. Truly amazing!! As to all this roll-on talk... The Wing is just fine for roll on as long as you take the time to tap her down one (possibly two if in OD).... Not a cage yet that has given me any problems coming out of a corner and seeing that opportunity to leave 'em behind... and smaller displacement/lighter bikes have a hole shot advantage, but it isn't a very big hole.... hehehe IMHO the ability to roll on efficeintly is part bike, part operator head space and timing ;o)"}, {"response": 160, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec 29, 1997 (11:06)", "body": "Personally, I never understood why anyone would \"experiment\" with auto oils in their bike. Oil is the absolute cheapest insurance policy you can have, and I want oil formulated for my bike, not my car. The money you save by using auto oil is chump change. I know lots of folks run the stuff without a problem, but taking a chance for a lifetime savings under $500 (net present value of 50 X $10 savings) is hardly worth the risk in my book. Hey, I saved so much on oil we can all get Super Sized at McDonalds tonite!"}, {"response": 161, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 29, 1997 (20:49)", "body": "I saw a ad for new Castrol \"motorcycle oils\" in the New Cycle World. I to have used only motorcycle specific oil but have known others using good car oils that have lasted 100,000 miles so who knows. I just feel better using oil made for bikes. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 162, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (14:34)", "body": "Downshift on a Harley? All the power is way down low, so if you want to pass, an upshift would make more sense."}, {"response": 163, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "I use car oil and change it every 1500 miles (filter every 3000). An oil change every 1500 miles is good for the engine and keeps the oil clean, but I couldn't afford it with MC specific oils."}, {"response": 164, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (15:50)", "body": "Downshift on a Harley? All the power is way down low, so if you want to pass, an upshift would make more sense. I say old chap, would you mind explaining that one? I use car oil and change it every 1500 miles (filter every 3000). An oil change every 1500 miles is good for the engine and keeps the oil clean, but I couldn't afford it with MC specific oils. An extra $8 every couple of months? Don't order the second topping on your pizzas one Friday and you'll have it! ;-)"}, {"response": 165, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "On my inline fours (when I want to accelerate very fast) I would rev the engine to redline, then shift. The power peak was usually around the redline anyway, so shifting any sooner would mean unused power. When I rode my buddy's Sporty 1200, though, I was surprised to find that when I upshifted I got a kick in the pants. Upshifting, by lowering the revs back into the power band (like 3500 rpms on a Sporty) actually gives you more power and a kick in the pants. By 5000 rpms you've got no power. $8? You're getting a good deal. At my motorcycle shop those specific oils are $5.50-$6.50 a bottle. Valvoline is $1.25. Lesse, for 4 quarts (what my Ninja takes), that comes out to $10 every 3000 miles. with a motorcycle specific oil that comes out to $44. $34 doesn't seem like as much now, but back when I was a starving student (then a starving network administrator), even the $10 was hard to come by. But I may switch now that I've got a little more money and the EPA has mandated less lubricative qualities in oil (I think less Zinc, but I'm not certain) in an attempt to reduce internal engine friction and increase mileage. The way I see it you'll have no noticeable milage increase but noticeably shorter lived engines."}, {"response": 166, "author": "jammie", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (15:15)", "body": "On the oil question. I've done a lot of study on this and just completed a motorcycle mechanics course. I'm switching to Mobil 1. It's the best oil made and at $4 a quart in dept. stores, it's comparable to regular motorcycle specific oils. It's used extensively in motorcycle racing. Available now in several grades, including 10-30."}, {"response": 167, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (20:09)", "body": "Is Mobil 1 100% synthetic?"}, {"response": 168, "author": "jammie", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (21:52)", "body": "Yes, Mobil l is 100% synthetic, which makes it almost a perfect lubricant, not subject to the breakdowns that affect fossil varieties."}, {"response": 169, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (22:02)", "body": "One warning: never use ANY synthetic during breakin. The rings will not seat correctly because the oil is too slick. What's happenin' slick?"}, {"response": 170, "author": "jammie", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (22:16)", "body": "Very true, synthetics are not recommended during break-in periods. Thanks for the reminder."}, {"response": 171, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (09:47)", "body": "Read this in MO's requiem for the Bad Boy, and thought BJ might like it: \"Harley-Davidson is one of the few manufacturers with the freedom to explore wild design concepts. Almost any motorcycle with a bar and shield on its tank will be viewed by many as legitimate. The bike will hold its value and it won't be seen as a risky purchase, so let's hope H-D uses this freedom. No one wants a cruiser future full of only fat, slow, 1940's-styled bikes.\" If they follow this course, then there will be an answer to the title question that not even Marc can defame!"}, {"response": 172, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (09:59)", "body": "It's true. Looking at the new Cycle World (great article, \"Sunday Ride\"), the ads are for fatbike cruisers and at first glance they all look the same except for the \"VStar\"."}, {"response": 173, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (10:41)", "body": "Frank, you can have the V-Star, even our dealer said JO was smart for buying the Intruder 800 over the new V-Star, to heavy, much less motor and to streched out. JO bought a leftover 97 for $5,700 dollars right at the price of a new 98 \"Custom\" version of the Star. I have to look at the fact that it seems the \"Sportbike\" is making a real comeback, every model and maker went all out for 98. Even Yamaha kicked butt with the new YZF-R1. I expect Harley-Davidson to do what they do best, \"EVOLUTION, NOT REVALUTION\". Expect radical things from Buell in the future (possible switch to a VR1000 type motor) but H-D won't do any real drastic changes untill the \"desire\" for their style of bikes goes way down and I don't see that happening anytime soon. (Wicked rumor, Buell switching to a new Yamaha V-twin FI engine soon!!). Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 174, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (11:58)", "body": "Look for HD to bump up the cc's on their motors in the near future, and introduce fuel-injection on cruiser models. As far as Buell, yes, the VR1000 would be a distinct possibility. The Yamaha motor? About as likely as Sadaam winning the Nobel Peace Prize! Flying Pigs!"}, {"response": 175, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (15:18)", "body": "BJ, have you seen the new V-Star Custom (which isn't available until March)? It is lighter with a lower seat height than the V-Star Classic. It can't match the Intruder 800 off the line, but can in a roll-on from 40-60 in passing situations. The 650 engine may be smaller than the Shadows, Vulcans and Intruders (750-800 range), but tests show it outperforms in the mid speed roll-on tests. IMHO, the Custom is the best looking mid-size cruiser on the market (but you'd have a wait a few more months to get it). I saw a couple of em painted up real nice at the Intl Motoshow a couple of weeks ago. You can't go wrong with the Intruder 800 though, it's a great bike for the money..Happy New Years riding and hope to see you and Jo this June when I'm cruising Colorado."}, {"response": 176, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (20:47)", "body": "Kevin, I've only seen the \"custom\" version on a Euro-Tv show I watched, it look pretty cool. The problem for JO is the same as on the Honda VLX 600 Cruiser, the seat height is not the problem, it's the \"strech\" to the rider pegs. Those are the same on both the Classic and Custom V-Stars. Humm, I test rode a V-Star classic and I can tell you now that next to JO's Intruder it was a total \"dog\" in the power deptment!! Maybe it wasn't set up right but this is a real good shop and her unbroken in 800 Intruder wants to leap forward with any slight pull on the throttle. So Iam a little amazed that your stats say it's so good. Hey, let us know when your sailing thru and the Steak is on us! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 177, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Jan  3, 1998 (02:17)", "body": "I was just trying to remember when I did the \"Experiment\" with the Castol... must have been about 18 years ago, I got a Kawi KZ750 Twin from the person I eventually bought the Z1R from... He told me it was all that he had ever run in it and so on those rare occassions that my 17 year old brain remembered that oil was important, that is what I bought... It's all I've used since. I did \"Upgrade\" to Semi-Synthetic after reading an article pronouncing it's advantages, so it has been Castrol Semi ever since. Good point about break-ins though... Course that would be for the person that can buy one that needs broke in.... $1.25 a quart and problem free for 18 (or so) years. Incidently, Western Auto Semi 20-50 IS Castrol refined... (learned that from Jon's retired buddy). And I am going to try the Dura Lube in the Van with this oil change... It has 137,000 without any thing special, and still runs great... maybe I can push it to 200,000 Well, this will probably be the last weekend on, got to get packing as we ready ourselves for the move to Alabama... Get your digs in before Sunday night as I will be off-line for at least 2 weeks come Monday the 5th."}, {"response": 178, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Jan  3, 1998 (10:03)", "body": "Shane, good luck with the move, nice thing about being in the southeastern part of the US, you so close to Daytona, Road Atlanta, etc. Sometimes living in Colorado is like living on a Island. It's at least 1000 miles to any of the major motocycling events that happen each year in the US. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 179, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Jan  3, 1998 (16:18)", "body": "Okay, so I'm sitting here thinking about this oil thing and it dawns on me that someone may have actually looked into this whole debate.. BANG what do I come up with?? Have a look here: http://www.ll.net/XS-XJ/stories/mcnoil94.htm Sticking with the Castrol!!! hehehe"}, {"response": 180, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Jan  3, 1998 (16:22)", "body": "Actually may switch to Mobil 1.... hehehe"}, {"response": 181, "author": "jammie", "date": "Sat, Jan  3, 1998 (23:27)", "body": "Shane, beautiful article. What more needs to be said about oil. As usual, MCN lays it all down for us to see. Mobil 1 it is. Wonder if anyone has seen it for less than $4 a quart. Also wonder if 10-40 wouldn't be the best range."}, {"response": 182, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sun, Jan  4, 1998 (08:52)", "body": "Shane, Excellent article. This should put to rest many of the overstated claims by the motorcycle oil pushers. I have been using automotive oil in motorcycles ever since I started riding them with no diverse effects. I always change my oil every 1000 to 2000 miles depending on conditions. Hoop"}, {"response": 183, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Jan  4, 1998 (12:28)", "body": "It won't put these claims to rest. Not many people will ever see this article, and even fewer will believe it (or allow themselves to not be swayed by pushy salesmen even when they have read the piece). No, the motorcycle oil companies will continue to do just fine."}, {"response": 184, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sun, Jan  4, 1998 (19:22)", "body": "\"Pushy Sales People??\" If one goes to the Automotive store to buy Automotive oil, one should never see a \"Pushy Sales Person\". I have occasionally seen Mobil 1 in \"By the Case\" Sales.... I will probably stick with the Castrol Semi, since I have never had any problems with it, and I prefer the 20/50 because of the high heat situations experienced in a M/C engine. The article was to strictly educate those here... I think Jon is right, M/C oil labelers will have continued success... at their customers expen e (good 'ol Free Enterprise, \"Let the Buyer Beware\".) Glad ya'll liked it Shane"}, {"response": 185, "author": "planeman", "date": "Mon, Jan 12, 1998 (23:20)", "body": "Thanks for the reference on the oil, Shane. I got a chuckle out of the reference to the overstatements and mumbo-jumbo of the oil marketing departments. I'm an ad man and you wouldn't believe the pressure we get get from some of our clients to puff up an average product's claims. I've been riding some since \"the incident\" on the few days we've had when the weather has been clear. I don't know what all this hopping up Harley engines is about. I got all I can handle and then some. I could use some advice from a couple of you that ride these things. I have ordered a new sissy bar to replace the one I bent. On the 1987 FLHS this is also used as the front suspension air resovoir. When I make the replacement I am supposed to pump it back up to between 10 to 15 lbs of pressure. Harley sells a pump made for this for around $50.00. There has got to be a cheap way to rig a common bicycle pump to do this. Any suggestions?"}, {"response": 186, "author": "Nighthawk750", "date": "Sun, Jun 10, 2001 (13:57)", "body": "I love that high power band that you all hate so much. Your bike starts climbing steady then all of a sudden hits the power band and you take off like a rocket and it feels like the front end is about to lift. It sneeks up and even suprises you. Plus this higher power band gives you better top end to satisfy all you speed deamon, adrenaline junkies like myself. I believe in hitting at least 100mph everymorning. And that is on a 1 mile stretch of backroads."}, {"response": 187, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jun 10, 2001 (14:04)", "body": "Do you commute with your bike, NightHawk750? motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 27, "subject": "The XRoads Daytona Run", "response_count": 56, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (09:22)", "body": "Boy, sure wish I could be there, Daytona sounds like a major blast and I'd love to see most of the racing action. Hey in this area, since Marc isn't here anymore is the Sturgis XRoads gathering totally dead? I will have almost no vacation for 98 so since Sturgis Rally is only a days ride, Iam looking to being up there for 3 to 4 days. I will be camping as motel costs are \"out of sight\" during the rally week, looking at either Glencoe Campground or another site. Let me know if there is any interest in a g thering. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (14:39)", "body": "So where's Marc? I remember him posting here in the Springs! Who I can't find are Nick, Dave and Leslie! So there will be a gathering at Sturgis. Does this rule out the one at Daytona-Key West?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (15:59)", "body": "Hey, wanna ride up to Sturgis together, BJ? Especially if I'm still contracting I'll have the ability to say \"see ya guys, I'm leaving for a week\". I'd still like to fly out to DC in February and pick up ye old Bonneville and ride it to Daytona. Am I a sissy for listening to Buck and Brad's advice not to do this?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "I mean, I'm not old like them (Big grin). Young people are supposed to do stupid stuff like that. I mean, what else are you going to tell your kids and grandkids about?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "Nick got out of motorcycling for good, according to Glenn. Had a wreck and got scared, apparently."}, {"response": 6, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (16:15)", "body": "This is totally unrelated to this site, but in a search for something to do when there's snow on the ground (a rare occurence where I come from and used to ride 360 days a year) I bought some cross country skis yesterday. There's a great park near here for doing that and there was a nice powder on the ground. And Jon is very, very sore. The downhill sections are a blast for about 5 seconds before you wipe out. Gotta work on that...."}, {"response": 7, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (16:38)", "body": "I ski cross country (telemark, actually) equipment on black diamond (most difficult) runs at the resorts and use the same skis for a cruise through the woods or go out to the desert after a snowstorm to ski where probably no one has skied before. Very adaptable sport. Those new high tech snowshoes are a blast too."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (18:23)", "body": "Didn't Nick have the signature stating his AMA number and that he was a 29 year member? Must have been a hell of a scare!!! Was his GS totalled? Can't picture him selling it. Nothing similar happened to Dave or Leslie, I hope? I don't think anything less than a crippling or amputation-causing crash would cause Dave to give up riding, but I would have said the same of Nick..."}, {"response": 9, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (20:15)", "body": "No, it wasn't too bad a wreck, according to Glenn, although he's parting out his bike to Glenn among others. I uderstand that it was a pretty bad road rash on one leg and that's it."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "Good to hear he's O.K., bad to hear he's parting out his customised tourer. Wonder who's getting the discordant FIAMM horns? If my bike's battery can handle it (IF I ever look at it and get it sorted out), that sounds (no pun intended) like the perfect thing to scare the local maniacs posing as drivers!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (10:00)", "body": "Back to Sturgis for a moment...not dead for me. I will be staying at one of the campgrounds, probably Elk Grove (I think that is the right one) about half way between Sturgis and Rapid City. I figure that as time get closer, we will work out some sort of meeting arrangement as to how to get together. Also, sorry to hear about Nick. I would guess though that Nick will be back to motorcycling after a while. Ed"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:16)", "body": "More than likely with another Suzuki GS from the early Eighties... Has anyone told Eirik about this?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:32)", "body": "Ed, That was the other campground I was thinking of, got to get some information as that one sounds nicer than Glencoe and having a little distance from Sturgis might make it easier to sleep! Sure Jon, to be honest I don't know if I can get the \"whole week off\" probably have to go up on Tuesday spend the remainder of the week and haul ass back to home on Sunday. Too bad about Nick, he seemed like a moto-lifer for sure but hey, if he doesn't come back it was great to share his experiances for a short time Jon, DC is pretty crappy in the Winter I take it but hey I don't blame ya, one of these days Iam gona go anyway no matter what the weather, gota see 500,000 bikes and do the Daytona races at least once before the end comes. Sam your right, wouldn't be Nick unless he's on a GS! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 14, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (13:29)", "body": "Yeah, but how far south would you have to ride to get to where the weather wasn't as bad. Granted, Daytona *is* supposed to be the first rally of the year, but it is pretty cool most places in February. Would be nice in Daytona, probably. I could stop by a bike shop in DC and get one of those ugly plexiglass fairings installed--that would help immensely. Somehow I doubt a Triumph's charging system could keep up with one of those electric vests."}, {"response": 15, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (19:01)", "body": "Ed, The campground you are thinking of is called Elk Creek. It is indeed located about halfway between Sturgis and Rapid City at exit #46. It is about 1 mile from I-90 on a blacktop road. I stayed there 3 years. It is filled with amenities. A swimming pool, whirlpool, laundromat, store, bar and restaurant are all located on the premises. It is a small campground (by Sturgis standards) and there is no live music. Campfires however, are allowed. It is indeed one of the quieter campgrounds. The owners ontinue to re-invest money back into the facilities (rare indeed at Sturgis). They also have built some motel type cabins. Some are big enough for 8 people (an excellent way to ruin a great rally). Anyhow--their toll free info/reservation number is 1 800 846 2267. Elk Creek is an excellent place to meet others. The security at Elk Creek usually doesn't check for wristbands until after 6:00. I went swimming at Elk Creek this last year during one of the 90 degree days. The highlight was watching guys stare (yes, I took a peek also) at a young (I would guess 21) beautiful, long-legged blond, in a thong (dental floss) bikini as they drove past the swimming pool. Note--the guys were all trying (unsuccessfully) to act nonchalant as they gazed at the half-naked beauty. No wrecks--many long stares!! Enjoy! Hoop"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (19:34)", "body": "The last two times I was at Sturgis, I stayed at KOAs...both okay, but sort of far away from stuff. Also, the KOA at Rapid City is not to far from a major major place called the Outer Limits which got more of my time and money than I should have spent there. I visited some acquaintances who were staying at the Berry Patch and didn't get away that night...pretty wild and wooly. I have heard basically good stuff about the Elk Creek place. When I decide to crash for the night, I do like to have a quiet p ace to crawl into. Thanks for the info. Ed"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (18:03)", "body": "Real sorry to hear about Nick. Perhaps the end of riding is related to more than the crash? I only wish I had the vacation time to do all the riding I want to. I get one big bike trip a year usually, and in 1998 it's Harley's 95th in Milwaukee. Plan to ride the \"long way\" to and from. Like Daytona, the rally is the destination, but the ride is the goal! Next year--Sturgis. As far as the Bonnie goes Jon, there is a special Amtrack train that will take you and your bike from DC to Daytona just for bike week. The weather from DC to NC is very dicey that time of year--could be snowing or stunning--you never know. However, I think it would be kinda cool to go to sleep and wake up with your bike in sun-drenched Daytona. You can test the bike out on the way to the Keys! Don't forget the early-bird specials. We old folks never miss 'em, Jon! ;-)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (18:14)", "body": "Wow, a train just for the Daytona period? I didn't know that! I've done it with a car to Orlando, is this the same?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (10:58)", "body": "Yep, except they set it up to handle all the bikes heading for Daytona. You party, sleep, and wake up in sunny Florida with your bike. I seem to recall that the round-trip fare was about $400, but I'm not sure. All aboard the Biker Express! Toot toot!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (12:54)", "body": "Well I gotta keep this in mind! Im not going anywhere this spring, but certainly in the future. Then I wouldn't have to ride a 650 all the way, eh? (Remember, I'm old)."}, {"response": 21, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (14:19)", "body": "O.K., O.K., I'm sorry Frank. I take it back! ;-)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "Frank--see you for dinner at 4:00? Today the early-bird special is meatloaf at and mashed taters at the Geezer Pleaser. We old guys have to stick together! ;-) Don't forget your teeth! hehe"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (17:14)", "body": "And this could be an excuse *not* to buy a long hauler like the Guzzi too. Just train your sportsbike within reasonable range and wail off. Great idea you passed on, Brad. Unless I had mucho time on ny hands, touring long on the Pantah is crazy. Even doing an I-95 all the way-deal, I don't think the 11 year old Desmo and the 41 year old rider could do it with out need of \"repair\"."}, {"response": 24, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (17:33)", "body": "I understand Frank. It's not a great ride anyway--straight down on the no curves 95, with dicey weather to boot. A lot of folks trailer down, but I think the train ride is potentially a more interesting/less hassle possibility. Save the bike and your butt for a trip through Florida to the Keys, or surrounding southern attractions. Pass me a beer and a cigar Garth! Potato, potato, choo, choo, puff, puff, chug, chugalug!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (18:39)", "body": "What about the U.S. 1?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (18:58)", "body": "Route 1 is an interesting road Sam--mainly because it passes through a million towns. Those towns come with lots of stop lights and strip malls and driveways and other points of entry for cagers. Really not a good riding road. The highway from hell to hell! hehe"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (06:25)", "body": "I really must find that National Geographic article on the U.S. 1 and read it again. Looked O.K. to me, but they obviously didn't go by bike!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (06:57)", "body": "I just paraphrased Bob Marley in a quote and I realized I haven't seen K around here! Where is he? I think he left his website address in \"Cool Bike URLs\"; I'll go check!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "yves", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (13:55)", "body": "About the U.S.1 It could be the best way if you have some TIME and want see the real country and real people. I always uses side roads when it's possible. It is more enjoyable than speedy highway."}, {"response": 30, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (16:22)", "body": "I agree. I always try to take the side roads (with occasional short blasts down the freeways, when necessary) and always try to eat at the little coffee shops. These coffee shops are a dying breed, but when you find one you can usually get a decent meal at a decent price and sit around listening to the locals BS. Gives you a real feel for the community you're passing through."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (16:58)", "body": "Really too bad \"BackRoads\" newspaper monthly doesn't get to everyone. The editor/publisher devotes a lot of space to just those kinds of environs in the NY,NJ,PA,CT surroundings. Rates, pros, cons, everything. i understand thereis a similar paper in the AL/GA area. It's always great to find oneself in a comfortable roadhouse rather than a sterile, harsh lighted Interstate \"food\" stop."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (10:47)", "body": "Sam, my wife works at the National Geographic Society. Neat place, and their article n Route 1 was indeed very interesting. I actually traverse Route 1 in Virginia fairly often, and although it is more hometown, IMHO, it is not designed for relaxing bike travel. Too many stop lights, stip malls, intersections, and driveways. I prefer the real back roads that aren't loaded up with cagers and commercial enterprises. I do agree with Jon--coffee shops and mom and pop diners are always a welcome change to MAC D's and fast food, although I think the American Heart Association would frown on either choice! Welcome to Fat City! May I take your order honey?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Shane", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (11:13)", "body": "If anyone ever gets to the San Antonio area there are Miles and Miles of winding roads through the Hill country... Highway 16 from San Antonio north to Llano is probably one of the best all around Rides I've ever ridden. Anywhere along the same stretch that you turn off you are going to find some of the twistiest challenges ever... It is a great place to ride!! So if you are going through this part of the world, instead of blowing through what most consider to be Flat Land, take a look at your map and pl n on a day or so in towns like Bandera, Leaky, Camp Wood, Uvalde, Medina, Kerrville, Fredericksburg, Llano, Canyon Lake, Pipe Creek, Tarpley, Literally hundreds of miles of Motorcycle friendly riding, and hey, if you let me know in advance, I can give you the \"Quick\" tour... :o) Shane"}, {"response": 34, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (17:35)", "body": "No kidding, Brad! There was this little place in Angelo that had the BEST hamburgers, but they were heart attack city. But man were they good......"}, {"response": 35, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (17:36)", "body": "What Shane says is true--those hill country rides are tighter and twistier than anything I've seen in the Colorado mountains. The scenery is dang nice too, but not quite as majestic as the Rockies, IMO."}, {"response": 36, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (10:03)", "body": "Jon, you ain't had the chance or the money to see most of the best roads of Colorado yet me friend! Go do Colorado 92 from Hotchskiss, CO. down to Hwy. 50 towards Gunnision. Twisty, with 300 ft. drop off's and no guard rails. Fly up independance pass at over 12000 ft. and tell me it don't feel like being in Europe. Son you got some heavy riding to do yet, ain't no roads in Texas that can rival going over Red Mountain pass on Hwy. 550 (the million dollar highway) from Delta to Durango and while your down hat way pick up hwy. 145 the San Wan Skyway and after that hwy. 141 around Telluride (or to hell you ride) as the natives call it. It may now be super fast but the TrailRidge road (13,000 ft. up over tree line is spectacular but start early morning (ie: 7am) and beat the mobile Texas RV contingent and you will know what it's like to \"own a mountain\"! Get that Limey bike and do some scoot'in!! Tailwind, BJ"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (10:05)", "body": "And the glove is DOWN, baby! (o;{"}, {"response": 38, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (11:18)", "body": "I've been from Lake City to Gunnison. Is this the same road, bJ? But you're right--next summer should be much better financially."}, {"response": 39, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (11:08)", "body": "A nice ride but no CO 92 would head \"north\" off of 50 W. just outside of Gunnision, CO. Will have to hook up and I will show you around!! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 40, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (12:35)", "body": "Sounds good! I look forward to it--in about 4 months or so?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (23:55)", "body": "It looks like Sturgis is out for 98, JO won't have any vacation time till September so maybe in 99 or we will wait till 2000 as it's the \"60th. Aniversary of the Black Hills Motor Classic Rally (ok,ok I know just \"STURGIS\", ha ha), now that could be a \"real\" party! Jon, I'd be happy to show ya around but if you get the Tbird sport, ya gota pull one plug wire off, then maybe I can kinda keep up with ya, ha ha! Tailwind, BJ"}, {"response": 42, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (03:41)", "body": "What, you won't show me around if I get an old Bonnie? (Grin). Can't wait for summer. Oooh. Bad way to be thinking so early in the winter."}, {"response": 43, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (19:49)", "body": "And a happy 'nother three inches of the white stuff, Jon. Tis a far cry from the beaches of San Deigo!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (22:02)", "body": "So you're moving to San Diego? Tell us more. Hey, I don't mind--you missed the week long cross country skiing topic (that's been moved to Fitness, btw). I've got plenty to keep me busy here in the mountains."}, {"response": 45, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (15:38)", "body": "Hey ya'll. Still alive and kicking. Don't know about Daytona, but Sturgis is definately is planned. Wish I could stop by more, but am too dang busy lately. I'm learning more about being a web programmer..including Perl scripts and stuff. Easy looking language. Still don't have my scanner running yet, but should soon as I removed NT from my laptop and reinstalled Win95..more friendly to laptops. Take care all and I'll try to get back over sooner next time. Thanks for the email BJ."}, {"response": 46, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (18:08)", "body": "Ugh! Perl bites. Microsoft's Active Server Pages is twice as easy to program, is faster with less drain on server resources, and can do more."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (19:10)", "body": "Good to see ya back! Now if I could only remember what I wanted to ask you... Well, I have verified your address, so when I remember what I was going to ask, I'll e-mail you."}, {"response": 48, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (16:46)", "body": "Yeah Jon, I know Perl ain't the best thing for scripts, but that's what the RSTAR site bb is written in and if I want to update it or add functionality..that's what it's written in. Oh well..I'm not going to rewrite the whole bb right now..that's for sure. Hey Sam, not sure what you wanted to ask. I looked at the prior posts in this topic and couldn't figure it out. Still listening to Bob at least once a week."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "Oh, yes, that's how you came up! I paraphrased one of Bob's songs and then remembered that I hadn't heard from you in a while! Have you checked out the music conference? (I haven't, actually; I'm sticking with motorcycles and cars 4 now!)"}, {"response": 50, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (16:35)", "body": "Ok Sam, I guess that's why my ears weren't burning too bad. No, I haven't checked out the music conference. I barely have time to get around to the few places on the net I go to now. I don't even really have enough time to browse around the net and find new and exciting things..hehe. Been riding my bike to work lately and it's been around 35 degrees out in the morning..brrrrr. These new jeans with the Polartec lining you see in some of the mags like Rider or Cycle World are nice. Combined with chaps..I'm fairly comfortable."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (23:58)", "body": "I guess at times like this the engine needs the fins for insulation! heehee! Good that your insulation is working; a K-cicle would be no fun at all! (EEK! Just saw the pun! Sorry, lop-sided BMW fans!) \"Cold bike was my ride last night, and rock was my music too!\" - Apologies to the late Robert Nesta Marley, O.M. for that totally 'orrible massacree of \"Talking Blues\"!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (14:19)", "body": "Hey, Kev, I thought that you lived in balmy California. I knew that it would get cooler sometimes, but 35 degrees every morning?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (11:46)", "body": "Well it's 46 degrees this morning in the Big Valley, but it's raining. So I guess I head on back down to San Mateo in my truck to see the International Motorcycle Show again. I've got an exhibiter pass for all three days. Went yesterday and it's so cool to see all the 98's in one place. Everything from motorcycles, watercraft, ATVs..but no snowmobiles! I'll take lots of pics today and try to get them up on the web soon (as I finally got my scanner working). I guess 35 degrees sound pretty cold, eh Sam. Yes..California can get pretty cold. I'm on the edge of the foothills that goes straight up into the Sierras and it's snowing up there right now."}, {"response": 54, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "35 degrees is hot where I come from (Celcius & all that...) I don't think I'd like to be anywhere in the U.S. right now (except maybe Hawaii). How on Earth did Hawaii get to be part of the United States of America ? It's nowhere near America (or any other continent, for that matter!)"}, {"response": 55, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "Military strategic point in the Pacific Sam, though I don't remember exactly how we aquired it. I just know I was born before it became a state..hehe. I guess I should specify whether I'm talking Celcius or Farenheit..big big difference, eh? The Motoshow was just as good the second day I went down. My buddy took all the pics, so I'll try to get em and scan em in for display."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (20:25)", "body": "Someday in some appropriate conference I'll tell you why the British took Jamaica from the Spanish and why it was so easy... motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 29, "subject": "In over my head?", "response_count": 118, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (23:30)", "body": "1100c & up, retro cruiser; Hey, you're the guy everybody's making bikes for! Every major bike manufacturer, with the exception of Triumph and Ducati, is making a bike like that! Honda: Shadow VT1100, Shadow ACE 1100, Shadow ACE Tourer 1100. Kawasaki: Vulcan 1500. Suzuki: Intruder 1500, Intruder 1400 (two different bikes; the 1400 is faster, the 1500, fatter) Yamaha: Royal Star & its derivatives. BMW: R1100C (or something like that!) Moto Guzzi: 1100 California (if they haven't discontinued it) Harley-Davidson: Except for the Sportster 883, every damn bike they make! Do you want shaft, chain or belt drive? Air, air/oil, or water cooling? The \"traditional\" narrow-angle V-Twin, a V-4, a flat-twin, or a transverse wide-angle V-Twin? The choice is yours! Kid in a candy store time!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (23:32)", "body": "I think Triumph's Thunderbird and Adventurer are 900cc only. I also forgot the Polaris Victory, but I don't think it's available yet."}, {"response": 3, "author": "yves", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (03:50)", "body": "Now that you have a list of fitting bikes, get to sees and sit on them and your biker's heart will choose the right one and it'll be THE ONE."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (10:36)", "body": "Agree with Yves completely. For the dollar value the Kawasaki may give you the ride you're looking for. Think about the Harleys though; are you going to end up wanting the \"original, the only..etc.\"? then they're worth every dime, which BTW you will not lose. Remember also the accessorizing you'll undoubtedly want. These are all reliable, go-anywhere bikes IMHO. And no, Guzzi is producing the California as fast as they can, it's been their best-seller by far )o:{"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (11:09)", "body": "I would not recommend a smaller bike given your size and past riding experience. You will get bored quickly. I would recommend taking the MSF course BEFORE getting your new bike, and really thinking it over carefully. Read everything you can get your hands on and talk to other riders--like us! hehe. I chose the HD Road King because it gives me the best of two worlds--touring comfort, and boulevard good looks, not to mention loads of options and accessories. I also enjoy the other, less tangible aspects of owning a Harley Davidson, like HOG (Harley Owners Group). However, IMHO, there is no \"perfect\" bike. Just pick the one that will give YOU the most smiles per mile. Nobody knows you better than you know yourself. Ever notice that guy always has such a silly grin on his face?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Shane", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (14:46)", "body": "Ohhhh Yves and Brad of infinite wisdom....I Agree."}, {"response": 7, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (20:02)", "body": "The advise given is very sound indeed! Go sit on every one of the manufacture's big cruisers and see what gives you the best showroom fit. To be Honest the Honda Valk is a huge bike. As far a Harley, you sound like a \"Heritage Softai\" kinda guy to me. Kawasaki has there new \"Nomade\" touring cruiser that might make you happy to. For size and a much \"less heavy\" (ie: weight wise) big cruiser, I fell the 1400cc Intruder (not the new 1500 FAT bike) might do you well as the lighter weight would make it easier to horse around and is \"much cheaper\" than a compareable Harley Davidson model. Have fun, it's a great perdicament to be in! Tailwinds, BJ Ondo"}, {"response": 8, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "The advise given is very sound indeed! Go sit on every one of the manufacture's big cruisers and see what gives you the best showroom fit. To be Honest the Honda Valk is a huge bike. As far a Harley, you sound like a \"Heritage Softail\" kinda guy to me. Kawasaki has there new \"Nomade\" touring cruiser that might make you happy to. For size and a much \"less heavy\" (ie: weight wise) big cruiser, I fell the 1400cc Intruder (not the new 1500 FAT bike) might do you well as the lighter weight would make it easie to horse around and is \"much cheaper\" than a compareable Harley Davidson model. Have fun, it's a great perdicament to be in! Tailwinds, BJ Ondo"}, {"response": 9, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "The advise given is very sound indeed! Go sit on every one of the manufacture's big cruisers and see what gives you the best showroom fit. To be Honest the Honda Valk is a huge bike. As far a Harley, you sound like a \"Heritage Softail\" kinda guy to me. Kawasaki has there new \"Nomad\" touring cruiser that might make you happy to. For size and a much \"less heavy\" (ie: weight wise) big cruiser, I fell the 1400cc Intruder (not the new 1500 FAT bike) might do you well as the lighter weight would make it easier to horse around and is \"much cheaper\" than a compareable Harley Davidson model. Have fun, it's a great perdicament to be in! Tailwinds, BJ Ondo"}, {"response": 10, "author": "planeman", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (00:44)", "body": "Again, thanks for the advice! I was just thinking about the first time I rode a motorcycle. In June of 1963 I purchased a new BSA at a dealership in Hampstead Heath, a suburb of London, England. The salesman said he would get one of the mechanics to give me a few minutes of riding instruction in front of the store. We rode four or five times around the \"heath\", an open grassy park of about 20 acres, and he thought I had the hang of it. I tipped him a \"couple of bob\", pulled out a map of London I had brought with me, and headed back ac oss the city to where I was staying. I began to realize what a dumb thing I had done. With 10 minutes riding experience under my belt I was crossing through one of the world's largest cities at 5:00 PM in heavy traffic and on the \"wrong side\" of the road. I was totally unfamialiar with the city and had to read a map every few blocks to find my way. Then It started raining. Fortunately I had bought some rain gear so I stopped and put it on. I actually made it back to the flat in one piece! The next morning I packed my gear and strapped it onto the bike, cranked 'er up and headed out to South Hampton. I went about 500 yards up a slight rise and suddenly found I was going head-to-head with a large truck (lorrie?)and managed to swerve back to the opposite lane where I should have been. That evening after I reached South Hampton I found a piece of white rag and tied it onto the handlebar to remind me \"left side of the road\" when I started out every morning. I left the damn thing tied there until I left England."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (06:36)", "body": "O.K., will someone please tell me how I forgot the Valkyrie from the list? I knew I was missing one, but I thought it was the Rebel, which doesn't qualify! Well, Planeman, I have very little experience riding motorcycles (about 9 hours road time total), but I have been riding bicycles for transport for more than two years. I am from Jamaica, a former British colony that drives on the left. I was in Mexico for four months, and after the first month I couldn't stand not having a bicycle any more, so I bought one. That very day I ended up on the very left lane of the northbound side of a HIGHWAY! Let me just say that I am lucky to be alive. For the rest of my stay in Mexico I kept saying to myself \"A la derecha; solamente a la derecha!\""}, {"response": 12, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (06:53)", "body": "BTW, I am 5'11\" tall and weigh 250 lbs (note the English units!), I learned to ride on a Nighthawk 450, and the bike I've been too bloody LAZY to get around to have fixed (tried to fix it myself, nearly destroyed the primary gear)is a TwinStar 200. Everyone on the XRoads told me this was a small bike, but I smile, I'm in Jamaica, which is a small country (without many highways, probably why I didn't recognise one in Mexico!) in which a 200 is (or used to be) considered a big bike. There have been D.J. r leases written about bikes, like \"S.90 Skank\" by Big Youth and \"CB200\" by Dillinger."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec  3, 1997 (10:55)", "body": "Planeman, you reminded me of 1) driving a sportscar in London (hairy), and the day I bought my Laverda and thought I could simply ride from Brooklyn NY, into downtown NYC. I knew the clutch was stiff, but not *that* stiff! I new it was powerful, but not *that* powerful! I knew the Bklyn bridge was nuts, but..you get the idea! I still thank the city busdriver who let me restart after a stall at a light in front of him!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (07:43)", "body": "Which side of the road? I have the same problem when I get to,and back from, Europe. Which pedal? After driving an auto for a while, and getting lazy?, I stalled the hire car in the middle of central london the other day, London Bus drivers are not so patient! Which lever? At one point I had a '62 Panhead and a '65 Iron Sportster to chose from and swapping left foot to right foot change didnt cause much problems (usually, but with a couple of memorable locked back wheel \"gear changes\"). My problem was with the Ariel gears- 1 up the rest down, instead of the more usuall 1 down the rest up. I was ok when running on auto pilot, it was only when I stopped to think about it that I had a memory lockup \"too many parameters: out of memory error - please reboot\" :)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Shane", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (11:16)", "body": "I guess that answers my earlier question...... The righty's were something else...\"so you say you wanna ride my scoot huh?...... Welll, Okay hehehe....\" Yeeeee haaawwww... hehehe"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (11:24)", "body": "One of the joys with kickstarts/manual advance on Brits and HD's is/was always - \"you wanna ride my bike? - ok but you have to start it first!\" :) It also added another level of security to bikes without ignition keys - leave it fully advanced, and on full compression! \"Hey man - a flying bike thief\"! (or at least one with a broken ankle)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (12:04)", "body": "Shebee, that's so funny. An old friend of mine who had an Ironhead Sporty back in the 1970's was reminiscing recently about just that fact. He said he was shot out of the cannon on more than one occation! I also have a buddy that had an old Panhead that he took to 110 cubes. He says that baby could litterally launch you into space with a whimpy kick. I guess those were the good old days? hehe Watch out--INCOMING!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (13:52)", "body": "Brings to mind bump-starting a 1000cc Laverda in an underground concrete parking garage with lotsa pillars..."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (14:16)", "body": "Might be safer in NY traffic! hehe"}, {"response": 20, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (15:23)", "body": "I think I did that too once or twice. After it died on the Williamsburg bridge no less."}, {"response": 21, "author": "planeman", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (19:26)", "body": "Hello Shebee. If you can, please tell me something about an Ariel Square Four. Back in the sixtys you Brits were always talking about them, something like us and our Harleys. Must be some bike. How are they as collectors items these days?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (21:12)", "body": "Planeman the Square four has been a collectors' bike for some time now! Quite an owner's group and club."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (00:36)", "body": "Planeman, The Ariel Square Four was last produced in 1959. Ariel managed (or mis-managed) to stay in business until 1970. A friend of mine has 3 square fours which he purchased in the 70's. He states that even though a owners club exists, it is nearly impossible to get parts for the Ariels. Everyone that has Ariel parts is hanging on to them. He also says it is easier to get parts for a Vincent. The bikes are not ridden very often due to the lack of parts. One of his bikes was featured in Iron Horse magazine (yes--the bike was chopped in the 70's). He told me the square fours hardly ever got 10,000 miles on them before they needed engine rebuilding. Perhaps this is why they are no longer produced. There usually is a reason why companies go out of business!! Hoop"}, {"response": 24, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (00:57)", "body": "Here is a Square Four that showed up at one of our club rides."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (02:22)", "body": "The Square Four was first produced in the mid-'30s. The Square-Four engine was actually two parallel-twins geared together, one in front of the other. It's an effective if inelegant solution, somewhat like the narrow-angle V-Twin, and it has one of the same drawbacks: less than optimal cooling of the rear cylinders. Ariel bought Triumph Motorcycles in the late '20s or early '30s. By the time the Ariel name was discontinued, all the major marques were divisions of NTV (Norton-Triumph-Villiers), which had crumbled. Edward Turner, designer of the original Speed Twin had earlier designed the original Square Four for his employer, Ariel. He was put to work on Triumphs after the takeover."}, {"response": 26, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (03:45)", "body": "Wow! Pretty bike! Atleast on a V-twin the cylinders are offset a bit and air can flow down both sides. I don't see how the rear cylinders don't completely overheat. Hmm. Would a square four have an advantage over an inline 4? I guess you'd have the advantages of narrow profile (like a twin) with (hopefully) 4 cylinder power. But I guess if that's what you want, a V-4 is the way to go--much simpler (and, I'm sure, lighter)."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (09:47)", "body": "I have absolutely no idea why they didn't just make a V-4, like Matchless did for their Silver Hawk. I see no advantage of this layout over a V-4 (except counterbalancing of forces, maybe?). Brough Superior used a similar concept on their Dream show bike, which had a similar layout to BMW except that they had two flat-twins, one atop the other, with the crankshafts geared together. The forces and unbalanced moments cancelled each other out. I read about it in The Encyclopaedia Of The Motorcycle by Hugo Wilson (bought it about two weeks after I came back home). The bike was illustrated with a plate on the licence plate holder that reas BS Dream. BS stood for Brough Superior, but considering that none of Brough Superior's show bikes ever really made it into production, the other possible interpretation of BS Dream may also have been applicable..."}, {"response": 28, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (13:33)", "body": "Well, it would be an extremely compact layout. Trouble is you have all the extra complexity, weight, reliability problems, etc. to worry about, so I guess a V-4 is best."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (06:45)", "body": "Square fours have a \"cult\" following in the same way as many other bikes. The Ariel Owners club over here is almost split into 3 non communicating sections, the fours, the big singles, and the 2 strokes. Comming from the 2nd catagory (big singles) I know very little about them, apart from the horror stories about rear cylinders overheating/lack of oil. The few that I have seen arround these days do few miles, but they are, apparently, great for pulling sidecars. Collectors pay silly money for them and other bikes, and then NEVER ride them, I have a problem with that. The machines were built to be ridden not stuffed in a display as an \"investment\" I think they are missing the point! I have had in the past and currently have \"classic\" machines and I know the problems involved with modern traffic and 50's brakes (or 60's brakes in the case of the PanHead) but for a 50/100 mile wander on a pleaseant afternoon you dont need 150bhp and twin 6pot brakes. The sound and feel of an old machine popping along at 50 mph down the lanes is a joy that a lot of people never experience. ok I'll get of my soap box, but this is a pet hate of mine! :)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (11:59)", "body": "I agree, Shebee. I was originally nervous about the idea of buying a \"classic\" bike putting alot of miles on it, but they were built to be ridden. If it's sitting in a garage somewhere collecting dust it's no different than a paper weight. If it's out riding around, it's a motorcycle."}, {"response": 31, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (17:23)", "body": "Jay Leno is not alone, thank God! Steve you're lucky to see so many nicely kept rides in their rightful setting! I know a guy in Brooklyn with a Square 4 sitting in his garage for at least 30 years, got fed up with the motor seizing and put it away, saying he'll never sell it. I didn't know parts were a problem."}, {"response": 32, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (22:05)", "body": "For something like that I can only assume that custom machining is your only option."}, {"response": 33, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (00:27)", "body": "If the Square Four has a cult following then some enterprising mechanic or other must have made some money from fabricating parts for the faithful. Who knows, they are probably able to make \"new\" old bikes from scratch! Counterfeit Ferraris have been done like that, from reproduction parts."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (00:28)", "body": "BTW, the Ariel Leader, the basis for the 2-stroke line, was hideous IMO."}, {"response": 35, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (03:02)", "body": "Not to mention counterfeit Harleys...."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (06:28)", "body": "If they're loved, and prone to failure, someone will have casting patterns for better parts (or at least parts otherwise unavailable) If you build it, he will come! heeheehee"}, {"response": 37, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (11:09)", "body": "You're right Sam; let's differentiate between counterfeit & reproduction, however. Many of the older classics of every origin have been reproduced with more modern methods and metallurgy to great advantage for all, albeit a pretty expensive way to go. Seems Britain's the biggest supporter of these cottage industries in the cycle world. Nortons, Triumphs, MVs and yes many cars are reproduced now. And we all know of the catalog-built Harleys. I think there's a place for this."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (11:32)", "body": "I agree with Frank on this, I cannot see a problem with anyone having the choice to have built what ever they desire, we may not agree with their idea of style, or engineering capabilities but if they want to build one, or have one built for them then I'm all for it. Catalogue built harleys, and their imitators, are filling a requirement (need?). As to what the requirement is, and the reasons for that rather than any other solution, is a matter for personal choice and I dont feel any of us have the right to restrict that choice. Obviously there are business/copyright/patents/safety implications here but provided they stay within the restrictions imposed by the laws of the countries involved - let them be! Its their choice - and a lot of \"standard\" items in use today were developed from previous incarnations of the idea, and many by back street/garden shed opperations - all the R&D in the world can still be improved by looking at a problem from a different perspective. I think I might have strayed from the point here, and maybe it should be posted in Philosophy, but I think you will get my point"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (12:24)", "body": "Yeah I agree Shebee. There's a guy in England producing meticulous repros of the MV's; he has the original factory drawings for the parts at considerable expense. The bikes are all custom adjusted in any way the customer asks (and waits!) Now we see the Slater Laverda SFC replicas made more reliable and easier to ride than the original, etc. keeping close to the original is what makes 'em worth it, and that costs. If it satisfies the owners' wants, so be it IMO."}, {"response": 40, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (16:01)", "body": "Rufus, gotta get out and test ride em to find what feels comfortable to ride. I agree with Brad in that at your size you should get a full-size bike. Test ride the Road King or Electra Glides if you can and the Yamaha Royal Star as they're similar in size..though the RS weighs just a bit more. I consider those to be of the best quality in a retro-cruiser. I love my RS a plenty."}, {"response": 41, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (16:14)", "body": "Kevin--great to see you here. Marc came in today as well. You are a bit late with advice to Rufus though--he just bought a used FLHTC. The RSTAR gang is Springing into action!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (19:20)", "body": "Yeah, if DT comes around, then we can say the gang's all here (no pun intended)! I took a look at the E-Glide Standard, and it didn't look that bad! Then I saw that the fairing is only part of the problem! As functional as the top box is, it's UGLY! Maybe that's why I like the PC800 so much, it's an integrated design without anything sticking out/off. I won't recommend the Twinstar to anyone my size or bigger (yet...maybe I will after I start riding it!), but the Nighthawk 450 that I've done most of my riding on fitted me O.K., and the short ride I took on the TwinStar before I tore it apart seemed all right. I fear to think about riding an 800, and I'm sure that Marc will understand my apprehension toward a GoldWing based on what I've said so far!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "planeman", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (21:21)", "body": "Re: the Royal Star. I looked at it long and hard. Gotta be the best looking bike anywhere. I read a couple of articles that indicated it is undercarburated and lacks the power it should have. Also I would rather let Yamaha get the bugs out with a couple of more years of production. The truth is I would love to have one. The Harley I bought just fell into my lap - after a lot of hard looking. Also, when I was younger I lusted after an Electra Glide but was broke, and in those days you didn't \"Meet the Nice t People on a Harley\" to paraphrase Honda's P.R. campaign in the 60's to fight the image. Now that I've worked hard and can pay cash I'm gonna do what I couldn't afford to do when I was young - and I'm gonna do it before I can't anymore. I just had to ride a Harley before I croaked. A note: I am still working out those damn Harley designations. I now understand the bike I bought is a 1987 FLHT (bar mounted faring on the nose)and not an FLHTC. I do have a question. I don't seem to see new FLH's on the dealer's floor and my \"bible\" (book) of Harley models doesn't say the manufacture of this model has stopped. Have these stopped and when? Also, under my \"Why a Harley\" column one of you (Roadhogger?) believed this year/model would eventually be a collector's item. Why do you think so?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (07:02)", "body": "Now what was Dave's address again? If you go to http://www.harley-davidson.com which is the H-D website, they have a link to a site explaining all those letters. I think all the current Electra-Glides and the Road King are FLHs The Road King is an FLHR and the Classic Ultra Injected is the FHLTCUI, which, if pronounced as spelt, probably sounds indecent."}, {"response": 45, "author": "yves", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (07:31)", "body": "Dave alphabet soup is at : http://www.pipeline.com/~pc006/htmfiles/info1.htm"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "Planeman: This is what the fellas behind the franchise signs tell me: For the 1999 model year, all FLH models will be fuel-injected--that's a done deal. Look for FI on other model lines in the very near future. As far as the FLHT goes, yes, it is still in production and one of the best values anywhere, if you can find one. FLHT's are popular because of their price (just under $13,000 list) which also makes them unpopular with dealers. Why? Because the margin is much lower than on dressed-up dressers like the Classic. In fact, some dealers don't even sell them! I have heard speculation that the model might be history next year, but I have no confirmation from a reliable source. However, if I were a betting man, I would guess the FLHT will still be around, albeit in fuel-injected form. I'll Be Backkkkk?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (23:46)", "body": "What happened to Dennis?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (16:43)", "body": "Dennis is still around. I think he, like many get a little net burnout. Since the RSTAR site opened, he's less likely to get around as much as he used to. I agree with Brad about the EG Std..though the list here in California is about $700 more (we've discussed this before). If you can buy one of these for list, it's one of the best buys in the big bike market. You can always add the big trunk and other goodies later..you just have to want that bat fairing out front which I wouldn't mind too much, though I'd miss the times riding w/o windshield which I do on the RS (and can also do on the King) once in a while, but not right now when it's in the 30s out."}, {"response": 49, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (00:07)", "body": "The more I look at the \"Batwing\", the less I dislike it. The top-box looks 'orrible, though; it's unappealing on any bike (until you take the chilled ginger beer out of it, that is!) I can cheat and say that I've ridden three bikes in my life (I rode about 80 metres on a C-50; I didn't want to stop, especially since I'm accustomed to declutching while stopping, and I couldn't find the clutch, which of course is automatic on a C-50!) and none had a fairing (apart from said C-50's leg sheilds). Maybe when (if?) I actually start riding I'll be more partial toward a fairing. In the meantime: \"Here's to internal combustion and wind in the face!\" (from The Gumball Rally )"}, {"response": 50, "author": "TRA", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (19:23)", "body": "wind in the face is great for short distances and I've done 300mi days without anything between me and the wind but a leather jacket and a set of goggles.If I'm going to do a lot of miles and don't want to be worn out at the end I'll take a fairing,batwing,frame mount or big windshield. Happy TRAils/NSD Paul"}, {"response": 51, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "So true, Paul. I used to hate those little plexiglass fairings (and I still think they're ugly as sin), but since I used to ride my bike year round I got one the second winter. I was so amazed at the difference it made in warmth that I promptly got on the bike the night I installed it and rode all the way across town to tell my buddys about how great it was. Ugly, but super functional and effective. Although I still love the \"naked\" look, I prefer to have atleast a small fairing. It makes all the difference in the world in terms of comfort and range."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (19:44)", "body": "Smile! I'm in Jamaica! 300 miles will get me anywhere! No fairing for me!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "TRA", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (01:09)", "body": "Sam I also don't think that harsh weather is a term that you are too familiar with in Jamaica.Somehow visions of year round riding dance in my head when I think of you Happy TRAils/NSD Paul"}, {"response": 54, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (17:48)", "body": "Year round riding if you don't mind a little rain. It does rain a bit now and then..doesn't it Sam?"}, {"response": 55, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "Speaking of year-round riding, I took a highway ride yesterday (150 miles) with a temp in the upper 30's. Yikes! I was layered real good, but as Seinfeld says, \"there was some serious shrinkage going on\"! I think Gerbing or Widder will be paying my house a XMas visit! Handle With Care: Contents Are Fragile!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "Not as much as I'd like in Kingston; we still have water lock-offs at nights. Portland & St. Mary are notorious for heavy rain. This due to the mountains that block the trade winds from Kingston and traps the clouds in Portland & St. Mary! These mountains are also notorious for LANDSLIDES, especially along the Junction road that links Kingston to Port Antonio. The road to Ocho Rios is less noted for landslides and more noted for Mt. Rosser/Mr. Diablo (VERY steep!) and for the Flat Bridge, a 300 year old, one lane bridge (and that's one lane in total , folks!) that has no rails and is over a deep river with heavy currents. Quite a few deaths annually. Everytime it rains in Kingston, the shoddy work of road repair crews is shown up when all the potholes come back and a few new ones appear!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (10:07)", "body": "So that bike \"you\" pictured in the Serious topic ought to work just Fine! (o;}"}, {"response": 58, "author": "TRA", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "Brad afterthat ride don't you mean \"contents are frigid\"?BTW it's 25 degF here today. Happy TRAils/NSD Paul"}, {"response": 59, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (15:33)", "body": "Where are you Paul? It's supposed to get up to 40 today. Balmy!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (17:21)", "body": "Paul is just south of Salt Lake City. I still remember the beautiful setting of mountains around his area in Lehi. I hear ya Brad. I'd personally like some of those electric gloves. I was checking out the Gerbing and Widder stuff at the Intl Motoshow..some neat stuff out there. I'll need to beef up my alternator first though."}, {"response": 61, "author": "Shane", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (23:23)", "body": "Hmmmm, Rode the bike in the dead of winter today... Sunny and 68... Brrrrrr... hehehe"}, {"response": 62, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (02:31)", "body": "I live not too far from Paul and needed to get some miles on my bike after doing some pretty serious motor mods so we can start doing some dyno work. So, I bit the bullet and bought an Eclipse heated vest and put some Widder gloves on order - they should be in on Friday. I also got some Winchester brand battery heated socks at K-Mart for $8 and after getting a Radio Shack battery holder to replace the funky holder that came with them, I had toasty feet on my hundred mile ride today."}, {"response": 63, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (14:42)", "body": "Shane, sunny and 68 doesn't sound too cold. Being a little facicious, eh? hehe Steve, those K-Mart socks sound like they're worth the money. I wonder how long the batteries last on em..I assume they're not 12V so you could wire em into the bike easily."}, {"response": 64, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (16:59)", "body": "Nope, the K-Mart socks are supposed to run on 1.5 volts. There is a little plastic holder at the top of each sock that holds one D-cell. I cut the wires at the holders and ran speaker wire from each sock that goes up each of my legs (ooh!) over my thermies and under my leathers. The Radio Shack battery holder has two D-cells in it and I wired a quick disconnect - it rides in my inside jacket pocket. The batteries only last a couple of hours so I carry spares, rechargables by the way."}, {"response": 65, "author": "yves", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (17:18)", "body": "Ok.Stereo heating. :o) If you could know how mutch amp. it takes, you could place a resistor and themconnect to the bike's 12v."}, {"response": 66, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (18:15)", "body": "What the heck, just wire it straight into the 12V system and your feet will be really toasty, and I mean really toasty..hehe (o:"}, {"response": 67, "author": "TRA", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (11:09)", "body": "Steve you should have called me.I was off work that day and 100 miles would have been just right.What mods did you do to the Norton? Happy TRAils/NSD Paul"}, {"response": 68, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "I sold the Norton a while back, Paul. I now have an M900 Ducati that is bored to 944 with 11:1 pistons, Keihin flat slide pumper carbs, ported heads and Dynacoil ignition. In a couple of days it will have Technomagnesio wheels and an Ohlins shock on the rear, soon to be followed by a flywheel lighter than stock by 4.5 lbs. Remove a few un-needed parts here and there, replace some others with carbon fiber and the results are a 375 lb. motorcycle with close to 90 rear-wheel hosepower and gobs of torque. I sold the Commando to a guy in Fruit Heights that has a garage full of other Brit bikes, so it is in good hands. Did you know that we have a Moto Guzzi dealer in Utah now? Classic Cycle in Layton, which had been specializing in British repairs and restorations, picked them up recently, and is now looking at Triumph (now that Harley of SL has dropped them) and possibly Laverda and MZ."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (14:31)", "body": "Hmm, maybe I oughta move out there! How's the real estate and school system? (o;{ \"...but the kids will be better off, hon, think of the scenery, the peace & quiet..\" How's that sound?"}, {"response": 70, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (10:15)", "body": "Steve, all I got to say is WOW! Time to put a blue cape on and call it SuperDuc!! You know the name of this topic is \"In over my head\", boy does that fit me to a tee. Ok, it's time to confess. As hard as I tried to be a great husband, I just decided that I couldn't do Cruiser's! I changed my deposit to a 1998 CB750 Nighthawk standard. I plan on semi-cafing it and my had to put on different bars if the wrist's are botherd badly. Goals are to put on a Rifle superbike fairing, new shocks/forksprings, braided lines and fork brace over the next year. Possibly a nice supertrapp 4into1 so it will be sporty without the painful sportbike riders poistion. Ya, I know shoot me, I need to hit the loto so Frank & Family, Jo and I can move to UT. and buy out the new Euro-bike dealer, ha ha! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 71, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (10:39)", "body": "What can I say BJ? \"Your penance for your confession is..\" (o; With wrist aggravations, what sort of bars will you go for, drag? And instead of Rifle, doesn't Targa or LP have a neater looker? The 'Trapp's a nice idea, classier than V&h slip-ons, etc. IMO."}, {"response": 72, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (13:25)", "body": "Frank, the bars may have to have 2\" more lift and come back about a inch or two also. Gona run with stock bars for a while and see if \"soft grips\" and a throttle lock won't surfice. Have to check out Targa or Lockhart for fairings and even the super trapps will be slip-on's to keep cost's down. Can't wait till Jan.(O:!! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (13:35)", "body": "BJ remember the Magna ACE 750? I think the one with the small fairing on a cruiser layout? Maybe those bars?"}, {"response": 74, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "BJ can't make up his mind on what bike he wants and I can't make up my mind to start work on my bike! Psychiatric Help 5c! (Where's Lucy Van Pelt when we need her?)"}, {"response": 75, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (21:39)", "body": "Sam, this is the final desision as I \"offically signed\" the deal papers so no more changes. I wish you luck on the twinstar rebulid, I failed big time trying to make a \"old bike\" come back to life. Some of us just have no talent for wrenching my friend. Frank, will look closely at the Magna handlebars to see if they might do the job! Tailwinds, Bj"}, {"response": 76, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (03:39)", "body": "I put down a \"deposit\" on a new rear tire. It's been warm and I would have gone riding, but my bike is up a 70 foot ice slope--when I take it out I don't wnat to put it back on. I'm going to get the tire replaced soon, then next spring I'm going to ride the bike to the shop and let him do the carbs, valve adjustment, etc. -- a basic tune up. I was going to do all of this myself, but the prospect of a finely tuned Ninja is very tantalizing--and probably not something I could do first try."}, {"response": 77, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (14:56)", "body": "Wise choice Jon. Basic stuff is easy to do yourself, but finely tune..it's nice to have machines like an EGA to check air/fuel mixture, etc. I'm taking my RS in next month to be rejetted again. The carb kit I have has been redone with smaller main and pilot jets with different needles too. Supposedly I'll lose just a little power in the low end, but have more in the mid-range where it counts when passing or hauling up hill. Best thing is the fuel mileage is supposed to be a lot better than I'm getting now .I want my range back!"}, {"response": 78, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (15:10)", "body": "The guy at the little mountain shop is a race tuner with several national places in AMA dirt bike racing (the kids division with his sons) and a 2nd place finish in '91 with the AMRA on a Ninja 600R like mine! Anyone who can come that close to winning the championship on an old-tech bike like that knows his stuff, and he knows 600Rs. He moved up to the mountains and found that a bike well tuned at 8500 feet screams at 5000, and he says he understands how to make some modifications (besides just jets) to make it run better at altitude. After that I may slowly upgrade the suspension and have a pretty decent (if still butt ugly and scraped up) sport bike."}, {"response": 79, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (10:20)", "body": "That's ok Jon, then the boys on the new pretty CBR F3's won't want to mess with ya, ha ha! Just fix the seat, get new tires and paint up the scratches and go have a lot of fun! Speaking of Glenn, he picked up a VF1000, man what a neat old Superbike, think he was a demon on the GS850, he will be waiting in the next county before I catch him, ha ha. BJ"}, {"response": 80, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:29)", "body": "Oh, the seat's fixed. Remember when you came up to visit I had the material? Well, I finally got it installed and it looks great. Too bad the rest of the bike doesn't match it. Well, it's a boring low charisma bike, but I like it because it handles pretty well, is pretty comfortable and has a liter bike feel to it. Glenn's had the VF for a while--it hasn't run. He's slowly tearing the engine down in his spare room, I think. He also just bought a '96 GS500, an '81 Honda CB750, a late 70s Kawasaki 650, and of course the GS. The man's got an addiction!"}, {"response": 81, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (16:32)", "body": "Speaking of GS bikes, any more word from our friend Nick in PA? Has Glenn heard anything? And all through the house, not a creature was stiring, not even St. Nick!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (19:37)", "body": "No, he offered to sell parts to Glenn, but when Glenn requested them he just hemmed and hawed and hasn't done anything to get the parts to Glenn. Who knows?"}, {"response": 83, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "Nick, I am sure, is going to put the parts into his next GS800 touring bike! We can rebuild him. We have the technology! heeheehee"}, {"response": 84, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (22:42)", "body": "I don't know--according to Glenn he's out of motorcycling forever. This accident really scared him. But if accidents would scare you out of riding, I would have quit a long time ago!"}, {"response": 85, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (10:18)", "body": "Boy, you look at somebody like Kathryn's husband--no talk of quiting at all after a MAJOR dump. It makes you wonder what the hell really happened to Nick. He was so confident! Perhaps that was his problem. Being a little humble and scared is a very good thing. What is it they say...when you think you have mastered your motorcycle it's time to stop riding! I fear, therefore I am!"}, {"response": 86, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (12:01)", "body": "It's hard to say, eh Brad. Unless we know what really happened. My buddy who owns the local Yamaha dealer crashed a little over three years ago on a Venture going about 100mph trying to catch up to his other buddy (both were on their way to the Colorado 500). He caught a high-speed wobble and lost it trying to slow down around 80 something..spent 6 months in the hospital. He and his buddy threw away their helmets and stuff..sold the bikes, etc. Didn't ride for awhile. I've now ridden back from Laughlin and out to this years Colorado 500 with both of them as they couldn't stay away from this great sport. Did he slow down..not a lot according to his other buddy, but some."}, {"response": 87, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (12:02)", "body": "True Brad. If you're not scared you're not safe IMO. Nick e-mailed me tersely telling me he's almost 100% healed and that he'll be on a VX800 in the spring, a friend's bike. I believe the accident was fairly co$tly for him."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (14:43)", "body": "Ah, so he hasn't given up riding (or the attitude?) after all! Well, I am glad he will be healed and riding again. Frank, is Nick's e-mail address the same as before? If not, could you send me the new one? I see said the blind man!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (15:08)", "body": "Same address worked for me Brad. Doesn't seem as talkative as before though!"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Shane", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (14:05)", "body": "There are some who can handle the \"Humbling\" (of a crash) and some who can't. I have seen people get out of the sport just for the mere reason that they couldn't look another rider in the eye and say \"I lost control\". Damn Shame really...."}, {"response": 91, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (17:06)", "body": "If that rule applied, we'd all be gone! Sheesh, no shame in making a mistake--the shame is in not admitting it! Making a goof doesn't make you a goof!"}, {"response": 92, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (21:51)", "body": "But that can't really be it! Surely Nick must have brought it down before in his 30 years of riding? If this is his first crash in 30 years then he really has something to boast about!"}, {"response": 93, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (15:05)", "body": "Not a sure thing Sam. I've been down twice, once on gravel on the 900SS when I should have known better as a young guy in Europe, and another on oil spilled on a ramp; in 26 years I'm told that's amazing (especially the way I ride, cruising as little as possible)."}, {"response": 94, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (22:56)", "body": "I'm sure it is! What's the average? Two crashes in the first year sounds, if not entirely reasonable, then at least believeable! Two crashes in twenty-six?! Either great control (mental & physical) or great luck, most likely a combination of the two! Would a really big crash (with a god stretch of hospital time) scare you off, or at least have you retreating to combinations (aka sidecars)?"}, {"response": 95, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (10:34)", "body": "Well, thank god I don't know Sam! But I'm sure it would have me thinking hard for some time. I do believe luck, a very real sense of fear of the capability of the bike, road condition, and cars/drivers has contributed to any \"skill\" level I'm at. I know war vets who have been spooked by cars enough to quit, and a friend who's lost half of one leg who rigged a sidecar after rehab and rides most every day. Mental strength and discipline is very important to me and many other riders I respect. Not to gossip, but I feel somehow Nick is that sort of rider also."}, {"response": 96, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (10:46)", "body": "I would imagine that it is a confidence issue. Initial reactions should be discounted accordingly."}, {"response": 97, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (17:08)", "body": "I agree with Frank, I have been riding for 21 years and have had one semi-serious drop at speed and 2 tip-overs in tight parking lot turning situations. A lot I will give to the MSF ERC course a lot of luck and hopefully learning to \"respect\" the machine and reliaze the \"true limits\" of my riding ability. I have been told that the most dangerous time period for a new motorcyclist is the \"FIRST 2 YEARS\"! Jo dropped her bikes twice in the first two years but no hospital stays and just minor damage to the body. I surely hope that if the big one bite's me, I have to mental fortatuide to \"get back on the bike ASAP\". As stated in other posts, you will never really know till it happens to you!"}, {"response": 98, "author": "TRA", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (20:38)", "body": "I don't know what the average is either.I've been riding almost 30 years and the worst thats ever happened was in Sept of 96 when I hit a milk crate with my foot I broke my toe but didn't go down.Maybe all the falls I had riding trials makes up for it I don't know.I do know that I've always ridden like everyone else was out to get me.I guess with all my absence I missed out on the news about Nick.What happened? Happy TRAils/NSD Paul"}, {"response": 99, "author": "TRA", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (20:42)", "body": "Steve you sold the Norton.I must say that I am a little suprised.But I see what you replaced it with and I can understand.I can't wait to see it. Happy TRAils/NSD Paul"}, {"response": 100, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (21:17)", "body": "If any bike offically fit's into the \"over my head\" column it's gota be a Ducati!! Ah, if only I had been born thin and good looking, I too could ride a Italian Stallion. I plan on being up in Cody WY. during Labor Day Weekend, Paul and Steve, maybe I can meet you at the UT. border. Happy New Year, BJ"}, {"response": 101, "author": "YSRRider", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "Ramblinman?"}, {"response": 104, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (23:04)", "body": "He'll get back to you, YSRRider. Be patient."}, {"response": 105, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (01:38)", "body": "Hey, Matt nice to see ya in the Spring Motorcycle deal. It's not a instant response chat like the Moto-Directory chat your use too. Just respond to any of the Topics and come back once a day for the answers. Hope to see ya around more often btw how's that CBR1000F holding up under a WFO kinda guy like yourself? Tailwinds, BJ Ondo/aka: Ramblinman"}, {"response": 106, "author": "planeman", "date": "Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "As I started \"In over my head\" I thought I'd report in. Saturday two weeks ago I took possession of the Harley I bought. I talked the guy I bought it from into riding it over in the rain for me as I havent ridden for about 30 years. I left it alone for the rest of the day hoping the rain would stop. On Sunday there was still a light mist that appeared would be over in a couple of hours (it wasn't) and I just couldn't wait anymore to try it out. I suited up and rode (verrrrry carefully) on some back roads for around four hours to get the feel. It all came back retty quickly. At the end of the day I went over to a friend's home in a condo complex and tipped it going slowly about 50 ft. from his place. The rear wheel seemed to suddenly be on ice. I tried to hold it up but couldn't and decided to part company and keep my leg out from under 750 lbs of machine. I rolled on my back and hit my head on the curb. THANK GOD FOR HELMETS! The deep scratch on the back of my helmet could have been in my skull. Amazingly, the bike is unscratched except for the sissy bar / mot r guard - or whatever its called - was bent. I've ordered a new one. After I got up and lifted the bike I looked back to see a patch of oil on the driveway I didn't see coming in. Water and oil did it to me again. I took a spill years ago from the same problem. I have promised myself to only ride when it is DRY. I'm OK, just nursing a few bruises. If the rain will ever stop I'll take it out again. Note: Using your computer, tune into HTTP://WWW.ONTHEAIR.COM to listen to some good live radio while reading The Spring. It has old time radio (The Shadow, Jack Benny, etc.) and a lot of other interesting radio, domestic and foreign."}, {"response": 107, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (18:36)", "body": "Wow, planeman, talk about rolling with the punches. We can't afford to lose you man. And I'll check out those good sounds. Slaps planeman a high five for staying alive!"}, {"response": 108, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (18:48)", "body": "Planeman, sorry to hear about the spill, but glad you and the bike are ok. Rain is a BIG hazard, but oil patches are common in parking lots and can ruin your day in ANY weather. I try to avoid any areas where cars might sit and leak and avoid the lots completely whenever possible. BTW, although I am an advocate for helmet choice, your case illustrates a situation where it obviously helped. Consider yourself lucky. Drip, slip, flip!"}, {"response": 109, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec 29, 1997 (11:11)", "body": "Planeman good to hear you and the hog are OK. Surprised the guard bar bent."}, {"response": 110, "author": "Ed", "date": "Mon, Dec 29, 1997 (21:48)", "body": "I am glad you weren't hurt, but your wet weather riding skills get better only be riding in wet weather. I know and understand the rationale behind not wanting to ride any more in the rain, but.... Just keep tires with good rubber on, understand what your limitations and the bike's limitations are, and dress for the weather...then enjoy. Ed"}, {"response": 111, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (14:39)", "body": "The fear of immenent death is why I'm such a better all around motorist since I started riding. Besides, if it wasn't scary, it wouldn't be any fun."}, {"response": 112, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (10:56)", "body": "Humm, I thing Honda's \"you meet the nicest people on a honda\" saying would be better to use, ha ha. Your comment above would cause quite a stur for sure. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 113, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (12:11)", "body": "Whick line BJ? \"The fear of immenent death..\" or \"If it wasn't scary..\" or both. I like the line \"If it wasn't scary, it wouldn't be any fun. Hop on a Yamaha R1.\" Naw..they wouldn't go for it."}, {"response": 114, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "You missed your calling in life, Kevin. You shoulda been an advertising executive."}, {"response": 115, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (16:50)", "body": "Shoot, I didn't even realize that I rhymed fun with R1..hehe. Where's Bob Starr?"}, {"response": 116, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (15:19)", "body": "Well, Planeman, I hope I show as much good sense as you did when I fall over with my 200. It won't be as heavy as your Glide, but I still wouldn't want it on my leg. When I fell off my tutor's bike (1984 Nighthawk 450) while learning to ride, I was fortunate enough to fall to the outside of the turn while the bike fell inside (v.slow 1st gear turn, hit a sand patch.) I hope that if I ever lose it again, I'll have enough sense to know when it's irrecoverable and jump off!"}, {"response": 117, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Jan  3, 1998 (01:50)", "body": "Planeman, Glad you are okay... Keep your chin up and everything else will follow... Tires, Good Tires, when riding in the wet..."}, {"response": 118, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sun, Jan  4, 1998 (12:40)", "body": "Planeman, I too am pleased to hear you have survived this minor accident with only slight lacerations to your helmet and ego. I guess we never know when a road hazard will crop up--seemingly from nowhere. Best wishes for a safe riding season! Hoop"}, {"response": 119, "author": "planeman", "date": "Mon, Jan 12, 1998 (23:35)", "body": "Thanks for the encouragement from all of you. I was kinda embarresed to admit I had dropped my \"new\" bike on my first day out. I'm back up on it again and determined to get through the \"new rider\" stage."}, {"response": 120, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Tue, Jan 13, 1998 (06:14)", "body": "Keep at it, its worth the effort ! :) motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 3, "subject": "My next motorcycle is going to be a ___________.", "response_count": 162, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Oct 10, 1997 (10:48)", "body": "Currently having a showroom affair with the Guzzi 1100i Sport, or God help me another Laverda. November starts the big hunt with all the ammo I've got. There are no alternatives (kidding..?)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Oct 10, 1997 (15:28)", "body": "Hmmmmmmm, My wife will hate you for that question... :-)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Oct 11, 1997 (20:10)", "body": "OK, I won't tell, Shane."}, {"response": 4, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Oct 12, 1997 (00:34)", "body": "Well, Shange, what's it going to be? A GL1500 maybe? I understand you got a big pay raise in the move to San Antonio. Come on, Shane, you owe it to yourself. I think my next will be a Triumph. I was originally thinking Speed Triple, but the new Thunderbird Sport has got me drooling...."}, {"response": 5, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Oct 12, 1997 (00:35)", "body": "Uh, that's \"Shane\". Sorry there...."}, {"response": 6, "author": "TRA", "date": "Sun, Oct 12, 1997 (03:39)", "body": "right now there is now way I could pick a single bike.The Kawasaki KLR 650 really draws me as does the Royal Star.Today i saw Tony's post at Crossroads on the new 1500 Intruder and perked up.Read the Nov Motorcyclist and that Triumph T bird Sport looks really great.Just read The new Cycle World about the Guzzi V-10 Centauro and off I go in another direction. then I saw ........well you get the picture."}, {"response": 7, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Oct 12, 1997 (04:14)", "body": "A smaller bike than the current RS for another bike. I already have an 83'XS650, but the new V-Star (the Drag Star Yamaha has in Europe) is a definate in the states for 98. Gonna be a 650 and as strong as most 800s out there. Looks very similar to an RS, but a lot lighter. The big dealer show in Orlando starts tomorrow with some big unveilings. Word is that Bob Burk (Yamaha Guru who brought us the XS650, Virago line and now the Royal Star) gave Cycle World an exclusive V-Star to test before the other mags Why (BLVD is going defunct..and Rider???), when they didn't give the RS a very good report when it came out early last year (incorrect power assumptions). Bob says Dave Edwards, Editor-In-Chief said if he had a bike to ride back on a long trip..it'd be a Tour Deluxe (saw that in print). Strange from a sport bike mag."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (09:42)", "body": "Y' know BLVD. had no publicity and wasn't a bad read for the cruiser guys. What's that about Rider? Salvadori can't carry a magazine by himself or something?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (16:18)", "body": "I dare not think about the next one, I havent finished paying for this one yet!, or finished the project either! .... but it may well be a HD engined Trike"}, {"response": 10, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Tue, Oct 14, 1997 (04:01)", "body": "Yeah Frank, too bad BLVD didn't catch on. Well done I thought. You ask \"What's that about Rider?\". I've always liked Salvadori, but I think he talks more about his travels than the bike he's riding. Nothing wrong with that, as I like to hear about places to go and all..but tell us about this new bike Rider gives him to ride..but doesn't report on. Isn't it a bike magazine..not a travel mag?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Oct 14, 1997 (10:43)", "body": "Unless it has a *real* important piece (like any Eurobike \"review\") Rider is the one I pick on a cold/rainy day with the fireplace going, to go on vacation by reading. I also found their tour-equipment stuff helpful reading. Very little tech info except for the write in stuff."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Alfor", "date": "Thu, Oct 16, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "Assuming money (not good assumption), possibilities for new bike: Honda Rebel MZ Silver Star (n/a Jamaica) Honda Nighthawk 250 A small D-P (Honda or Yamaha, maybe) Realm of Fantasy: A PC800 Pacific Coast, a FXDS-CONV Dyna Convertible, or a R100GS (N.B.: NOT a R1100GS)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sat, Oct 18, 1997 (05:03)", "body": "Sam, I hear ya on the R100GS over the 1100. The Beemer dealer here has (last I saw) a used 95 or 96 R100GS with low miles (22k). It sat side by side next to a new 1100 and I liked the used one better. Perfect bike for long distance practically anywhere. It might be a big bike for Jamaica, but it could handle most dirt roads (the beautiful roads) a lot of folk don't see. The PC800 might be a good one to get around the island and take everything with ya. Hard to imagine ya on the Dyna though..."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (09:59)", "body": "All the Fantasy bikes listed are big for Jamaica. The R100GS is also good for a lot of the paved roads in Kingston where it's very hard to see the pavement, because there isn't much of it! Why is it hard to imagine me on a Dyna Convertible? Maybe because I've never sat on a bike of 500cc capacity or bigger? Or is it because Jamaica doesn't have a Harley dealer? (We don't have any dealers for any European bikes either!)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (10:32)", "body": "That's amazing, Sam! You'd think that there would be atleast one or two non-Japanese dealers there. Sure, a Dyna may be out of the financial reach of most Jamaicans, but you'd think there would be atleast one measly dealership."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "A Sportster is also out of the financial reach of most Jamaicans! Yamaha's top-of-the-line cruiser in Jamaica is the XV535 Virago! I didn't see any Shadows at all in the Honda dealership, only bikes of up to 250cc or 300cc. That's the usual upper limit in Jamaican bike dealerships. They'll bring down larger bikes on special order (like a CBR600), but they only have small bikes in stock. I'm not certain whether or not there's a Kawasaki dealer in Jamaica."}, {"response": 17, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "No Kawi dealer? Maybe you need to start one. ;-)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "I know that there are people who repair Kawasakis, but I don't know if they also import and sell. I do know that there are quite a few Ninjas in Jamaica!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (13:56)", "body": "See, Sam? There's a big demand for 'em. You could start a dealership, stock a couple of Ninja 250s and maybe even an EX500. You're already the master bike repairman (forget \"ASE Certified\" or \"Factory Certified\", you're \"Twin Star Certified\") so you've got the service department covered. As crazy as it sounds, it might be a successful venture. If only we had the bucks...."}, {"response": 20, "author": "stu", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (02:25)", "body": "I've been inspired by a friend who has a CB400F done up Cafe style. My next bike (as I tend to swing from project to project) will be some sort of a basket case that I can work up the same way. A XS650 would be nice, but I saw an ad for a GS500 in pieces for only $350. THAT could be interesting... Stu"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (09:39)", "body": "I guess if you like assembling all the bits a basket case is a good winter time-filler. For the price, as long as it's all there, the GS would be a good, if heavy cafe-scratcher. The XS would really lend itself to a cafe project, though! Seems they're hard to find here."}, {"response": 22, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (15:00)", "body": "Triumph?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (15:14)", "body": "Honda 160 equivalent."}, {"response": 24, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (16:03)", "body": "Check out Kawi's web site, Terry. http://www.kawasaki.com/ as they have models that might interest you."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "My next HD will come in year 2003--any model!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Ed", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "I will never get rid of my shovelhead, but will probably pick up a new bike in two years. If I go cruiser, will pick up a Valkyrie (along with Wagner's opera, Flight of the Valkyries. For those of you who aren't familiar with it, it is the infamous tune of Elmer Fudd, \"Kill the wabbit\"). If I go full touring, I really want to see the BMW bagger that I have seen an artist's rendition of...supposed to be out by 2000. Ed"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (00:52)", "body": "I got to think about this bike first..."}, {"response": 28, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (01:53)", "body": "I was thinking. In a way, I'm carrying on the torch. Sure, the guy with the Triumph would be nuts to accept my offer, but if I end up with it I may be the youngest Triumph enthusiast in the country. Most Triumph lovers, I think, associate the machines as the performance bikes of their youth. I, of course, have no such attachment and the original Triumph marquee was dead by the time I started noticing motorcycles. I guess some of that attraction and mystique has worn off on me some how."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Shane", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (14:51)", "body": "Ahhhh Jon, You discount the THOUSANDS of Flat Trackers out there, Many of whom still ride 70's era Triumphs and Harleys........ If you ever get a chance and want to see some real vintage iron in action go to a Flat Track (dirt) event... I know a guy in Nebraska who is probably about 18 by now who is riding his Dad's old Harley on the track and His brother's old Bonneville on the street...."}, {"response": 30, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "I mention above that I'm pretty sold on the Guzzi Sport\"i\". If anyone has a chance, go to www.bayarea.net/~ramarren. Hit Moto-Miscellany and then \"1000S\". An identical bike is being offered to me at a very good price, about 1/2 that of a new Sport. Critiques/comments? Do I go for the \"outdated\" frame & quirky nits like 22-bolt oil-pan drop to change the filter, or the new $200/month in-hock deal? Harley folks *may* understand..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (16:27)", "body": "I could see myself on one of the new Guzzis, and though I like the style of the older Guzzis, I couldn't put up with the notorious unreliability. The new ones, however, are pretty sharp and it looks like Guzzi is getting their act together."}, {"response": 32, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Nov 23, 1997 (19:30)", "body": "Well I have a deposit on a 98 883 Sportster and a BMW F650ST (street version), when the money arrives in Jan. I will make my final verdict. At the moment the Sportster is running a half step above the 4-stroke single Itailan made BMW with chain drive. Yep, thanks to Brad I found my way to the new homestead! I hope I finally figure out how to hook up. Jon, how's the job and life in general going?? Things are ok here still at the same job almost 90 days! How's the Triumph hunting going, they still have y old speed triple at Apex Sports. Tailwinds BJ"}, {"response": 33, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov 23, 1997 (23:55)", "body": "Hey, BJ, great to see you! How'd you get back on the 'net? Things are going well and I'm getting paid well. The \"life in general\" could be better, I suppose, but things are nice. Did you see that it looks like I'm going to be getting an old Triumph? And why on earth *those* bikes? You've got big vibes and no power in one and relatively few vibes and no power in the other. And what would a F650 be like on a trip? Not much better than the Sporty, I'd say. But, to each his own."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (07:46)", "body": "BJ! Hot Damn! Great to hear from you! Glad things are lookin' good! Yeah I too am a little surprised on those choices, I figured you needed a bike with room. Tell us more."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (20:01)", "body": "What's up with the Nighthawk? Or the Intruder/Savage deal? A Sportster or an F650? Weird choices indeed!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (20:29)", "body": "Yea, they still haven't come picked up the Web Tv unit but I have saved the cash to buy another unit when they do. Ok, to be honest I just decided that if I was gona do a \"cruiser\" style bike to hang in with JO on the Savage (found a yellow 96 model still in the crate for a great discount), I'd give Harley-Davidson a try, don't see much difference between a 883 and a 800 Intruder and the Harley has many more ways to make the bike \"personal\". F650, well it's different and the ST (street version) is light, 60 hp. (only 6 less hp. than my TDM 850 and it kicked butt in the twisties!), instant hard luggage and decent accessiories. To be honest even more these are the models of Harley or BMW I can afford and have \"NO PAYMENTS\". Sam, well I have to admit, the Honda Nighthawk is a excellent bike but it's just \"too damn plain jane\", it just doesn't excite me. Jon, what kinda \"old Triumph\"? I sure hope your a good mechanic or have Glenn on retainer, as the old british twins are as maintanence intensive as old Harleys!! See I can't ride a sportbike due to tendonites, it's not the \"vibes\" that are the problem, it's the pressure that my very \"unliteweight\" body puts on my palms and wrists and elbows in the tuck of a good sportbike. If I didn't have this problem I'd have a Yamaha YZF600 in Jan. instead of a H-D or a BMW. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 37, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (22:38)", "body": "A '72 Bonneville. I still haven't seen pictures, so I haven't decided yet."}, {"response": 38, "author": "yves", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (03:56)", "body": "If you would like to see a 70 Bonneville look at: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/9798/bonnev.jpg"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (04:51)", "body": "Tell us how Jo gets along with the Savage, O.K.? Lots of talk around about the Savage: \"It's Great!\" \"Naw, it's a piece of (expletive deleted)\" People want to know! I take it you're going to spring (no pun intended ) for a dual saddle! (there's more, but I gotta go!)"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (05:05)", "body": "Actually, there's more pun than I thought! Forgot the name of this site... Pity you decided against the Intruder; you and your wife could have used the same service dept. Anyway, good luck!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (21:32)", "body": "Sam, Jo had a 86 savage (650 Single) and put 9,000 trouble free miles on it in one year following around my BMW! I think there a real decent machine, yes a little on the vibes side but no more than the Sportster. For the price of a Savage, which is much lower than any of the other 500-600cc cruisers and over $1,000 less than the new 650 V-Star from Yamaha! Sam, just decided that between the Intruder and the Sportster, it's the aftermarket and HOG, that put the Sportster ahead of the Intruder. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 42, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (00:16)", "body": "And, IMHO, the Savage is a nice looking bike. Much nicer looking than the Yamaha Virago (a great bike, but not as nice looking)."}, {"response": 43, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (07:25)", "body": "A single or a parallel-twin generally looks better than a longdituninal V-Twin IMO. The Guzzi and CX500 layout is neat, though..."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "I think the Savage is a great beginner's bike: good wheelbase and ride/seat height, comfortable position for most, and good to learn basic mechanics and maintenance. And the looks don't hurt at the deli either!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:17)", "body": "1) Great discussion over there regarding HD/marketing etc. 2) I am major upset. PISSED! Incredulous. Why? Because in yet another display of the infinite wisdom that has made them the frequent butt of deserved joking, Moto Guzzi SpA has decided to CANCEL the 1100i Sport! \"Because they aren't selling well enough to continue production\" Because we want to upgrade our line\" To engineer a new water-cooled beast. I can't understand it. Just like the 1000S, a bike regarded as a sought after classic design (3 years in production), Guzzi cancels the Sport now. There are n yellow, 3 red, and 14 black bikes in the warehouse. This is \"too many\"?! Just when developement was starting to work? Now there will undoubtedly be some price-voodoo going on with dealers and private sellers alike for some time. Moneymonemoney. I sure wish I had more. Now what's next??"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:20)", "body": "My Pantah's in the garage looking at me as though saying \"Do you still love me?\" Guess it's voices in my head..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:22)", "body": "Well, I personally thought it was ugly, but still, to deep-6 a bike when there's still demand and growth potential is indeed ridiculous! Makes me wonder about the viability of the V10 Centauro! (Not that I can afford one!) Or is it the V11 that I like? I don't remember! It makes me worry about them all!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:25)", "body": "I saw a picture of the Pantah. I guess I just don't like the looks of faired bikes. The Darmah, now that looked COOL! Bikini fairings are O.K., except for the '82 (not '84) Katana fairing, which looks absolutely GREAT!!!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:57)", "body": "Sam, we're apart on that one! The Darmah wasn't bad, but needed a bikini to cover a little indecent exposure. I prefer a 1/2 faring at the most."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (12:08)", "body": "1/2 fairing...modern name for a bikini fairing. I guess we agree that it's a decent compromise, but from different sides. This might change when I've actually faced the wind at 50 mph for a half-hour or so..."}, {"response": 51, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (12:56)", "body": "1/2 = coverage down & past the headlight, a la the 1st 900SS or the Laverda SFC. Bikini = new M900 for me."}, {"response": 52, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (13:16)", "body": "I agree on the definition of \"bikini\" with Frank. MO did an \"open bikini shoot out\" and all the bikes had \"fly screen\" fairings. I guess \"bikini\" is alot sexier than \"fly screen\"."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (19:44)", "body": "So which does (did?) the 900CR have?"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (10:25)", "body": "900CR has a 1/2, IMHO. Just enough for the real world."}, {"response": 55, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (10:24)", "body": "So Frank, does this mean that the Moto-Guzzi purchase is pretty much \"dead meat\"? Maybe stick with the Duc and buy a \"old beemer\" for long distance riding. I am not much of a Duc fan buy I sure like Moto-Guzzi but with no decent dealership within 80 miles, for me it's totally impractical , too bad they have style! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (11:55)", "body": "Well the Duc is still here. The way I see it presently is if a leftover Injected model comes up at a reasonable price ($10K or less) I'll go. If a carb model comes up under $7500, I'd go. If the 96-97 models increase in price, I'm very tempted to get a 1000S and put up with the slight roughness of design and style (compared with the Sport's). Any of 'em will hold the values I respect. I'm positive that any '98's will be too expensive for me to jump on. The \"$12K\" range is just too high for a guy with kids & house and limited riding time, and the new Guzzi & Laverda are already there. I'm hearing lots of conflicting info, similar to you with Triumph, regarding Guzzi's US plans & production. The guys with $$ tell me \"just go out and grab a Sport i right now\", I'm not quite in that position. But I know I want a long-legged Italian mistress, so I'll work on my image a little more until Feb/March and see if I can join the party!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (12:23)", "body": "Well, Guzzi and Triumph (even if they don't necessarily make good decisions) atleast *want* to be in the US market in a big way--all bike makers do becuase we're the biggest market in the world. Could you imagine what it would be like if we had the same percentage of riders here as in, say, New Zealand?"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (13:36)", "body": "Seems Australia/NZ have a lot of bikes per sq.mile though. Y'know Jon, the Hinckley group is a modern business, but Guzzi is still rocking and rolling from DeTomaso on. Yes they want a US market/world share, but their production and management does *not* measure up to real world status even now. They race well in limited Euro-classes. They appeal to a very particular type of rider (I'm slowly becoming one). They don't seem to be beyond that. Hanging models made of hopes or discontinuing when they just gai awareness gets back to the Italian methodology that pisses people off since early Ducati, when parts and dealers were mostly mirages."}, {"response": 59, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "They need something like the buyout of Ducati to happen to them."}, {"response": 60, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (17:37)", "body": "I thought of that. I would hate it. When Ducati/Cagiva group went through its search for cash and Zell, etc. bought in, I felt it would dilute the essence of the company in the not-so-long run. Now, we see the ST2 along with the DKNY jacket giveaway and the limited edition paintjobs, etc. Some Italian with a love for motorcycling and big b---s in the finance world *must* be able to help a company like Guzzi without making a mockery of the marque. One way I keep on looking at Laverda is their dedication to their original ideals, even though it's a real struggle they still want to produce the type of no-holds-barred ride they made their reputation with. Took 11 years but they're on the way. Private money, not conglomerate money."}, {"response": 61, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (17:55)", "body": "\"Some Italian\" being your problem. The Italians have a long and storied past in screwing up industry. As for the DKNY jacket giveaway--they're sponsors of the Ducati race team. Would it be wrong for Kawi to offer Muzzy jackets, or Honda to offer Smokin' Joe's jackets? Unless I'm mistaken, most Italian companys take decades (o.k., so I exagerate some) to develop a bike, while the Texas Pacific Group 49% buy out happened about a year ago. (Zell never materialized, of course). The ST2 just came out. I doubt that TP had anything to do with it--I'm sure it was in the works. Besides, why not have Ducati make one of the sportiest sport tourers on the planet? It's not exactly an ST-1100. And it really doesn't matter if the essence is preserved if the company isn't."}, {"response": 62, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (17:57)", "body": "Oh, TP is going to allow them to create more bikes, although they plan on never producing more than 200,000 bikes per year. As a result availability and quality should go up while price comes down. Besides, not all bikes Ducati produces are sexy road rockets. They make the little mono around town bikes too."}, {"response": 63, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (19:12)", "body": "I mostly agree Jon. But picking Donna Karan just whizzed me off. It seems that the modern world (\") has no room for a group that hand builds at low volumes and develops something by refinement. I'm not talking Bimota. I'm talking of the Ducati/Guzzi/MV, etc. old way. As soon as \"modern marketing practice\" comes to bear, it attracts an entirely different type of thinker, and I feel qualities are diluted. This is MHO. I'm not dogging the need for modernization as such. I'm after the fading essence of what I believe makes classics classic. Quality overall, like paint, wel s,etc. will probably be enhanced, but they'll start leaning away from the \"exclusivity\", for lack of a better word right now, that made them the cult favorites at the start."}, {"response": 64, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (23:56)", "body": "This is true. I guess I'm not into \"Boutique Bikes\", but I suppose there needs to be a place for them. I guess Ducati is trying to use their success to leverage themselves out of the boutique market and into the main stream. Anything against DK? Would a cigarette company be better? I'm just curious."}, {"response": 65, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (00:44)", "body": "There is another DKNY-Ducati connection. Donna Karen's husband races Ducs. About this time last year, he bought two race-ready 916 SPS bikes from Fast By Ferracci. I believe that this is what got DKNY into sponsoring Ferracci's race team."}, {"response": 66, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (01:47)", "body": "Hand-made craftsmanship. Sounds very Morgan/Rolls-Royce/Aston Martin/Ferrari to me! Why won't it work with bikes? Then again, with the exception of Morgan, the car companies listed here seem to be going the same way. The artisan is perceived to be as out of date as the Monarchy! Long live them both!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec 20, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "While waiting for the server to return here I was amusing myself by looking at the new US Laverda club site. Tests are running on a new 1000cc watercooled triple, 150hp. Time to go to The Money Store! The Australian Laverda site has good pictures and *sounds*. If there's interest I'll post the URLs (I know, Frank/Laverda yaddayadda..)"}, {"response": 68, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (11:15)", "body": "Frank, the new 750 P-twin's sure caught my eye, Iam a big P-twin fan after owning a XS650 and a TDM850. P-twins look way better than V-twins imho and they are much more compact and have a sound all their own. Post the URL's so I can bookmark the sites please! Who knows someday I might own a bike from Italy yet. Tailwinds,BJ"}, {"response": 69, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (14:58)", "body": "I agree, BJ. Parallel twins are the way to go and make a great sport bike power plant. Not quite as narrow as most V-twins, but still quite narrow, extremely short front to back making packagin it in a motorcycle frame easier, the weight is all forward improving balance, etc. Now why the heck won't Triumph reintroduce the Bonneville?"}, {"response": 70, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (15:11)", "body": "Can you make that P-Twin smoother than a V? My XS650 is the only P I've ridden and it vibrates like an egg beater. I assume newer models/technology is much better nowadays."}, {"response": 71, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (15:16)", "body": "Yeah, the closer your angle gets to 90 the smoother the engine will run. You can make a smooth P-twin (think of it as a 0 degree V-twin) but you've got to have nice big balance shafts--one disadvantage of the P-twin because a heavily balanced motor also revs more slowly."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (18:21)", "body": "Well, you could put it in a double-cradle, \"Featherbed\"-style frame..."}, {"response": 73, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (09:47)", "body": "Kevin, your right, the XS was a great \"shaker\" but the 5-valve per cylinder, water-cooled, double balance shaft, TDM 850 twin had almost no vibration and was loaded with real world usable mid-range power. Jon, I wholeheartly agree, if Triumph made a 650 or 750cc P-Twin Bonnie model, it would be high on my personal \"WANT\" list too! Sam, a XS650 engine with a Powerrol 750 kit in a Norton featherbed frame would be a ride that most of us would want to keep. Wish I was a wrench and had extra bucks as I'd love to see if it would work! Tailwinds, Bj"}, {"response": 74, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (10:28)", "body": "I'm pretty sure the vibrating-couple of the Ptwin limits it's horsepower enough to remain uncompetive in the 750 wars, a good streetbike maybe but no GSX-killer. Tognon & company want Laverda to dominate in 3 years (if only once!) and they're banking on a triple to do it; part practical and (big)part past passions."}, {"response": 75, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "Frank, agreed but to be honest, a true \"racer\" makes a lousy streebike anyway! The 916 is art and fast but pure torture to ride on the street (per the crazies at Cycle World no less)and so far Triumphs and Kenny Roberts \"Triples\" haven't even scratched the \"fast image\" of twins and 4-cylinder machines. Even Triumph looking at the 600 class was looking at a \"serious 4-cylinder\" machine to compete with F3's, ZX-6's, GXSR-600, ect. In the new BEARS racing, the Triumph Triple hold's it own but still the twi s and 4's kick it around. A P-twin is a good engine for street use, the TDM 850 motor worked well and in the \"really tight stuff\" I could wip up on the Liter bikes of the early 90's. Yes, in the long sweepers and straight's, they'd kill me as the TDM engine only pushed a measley \"66 horsepower\". The 750F Larvada at 80 ponies would make sweepers much more fun! At last glance at the Kenny Roberts website, they were talking about going to a 4-cylinder model for the GP bike. Maybe in Superbike racing, the Larvada Triple could work! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 76, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (13:56)", "body": "Agreed BJ. I believe that's where they want to go in 3 years. I'm betting on first an endurance trophy, then a WSC effort, similar to the glory days of the 70's for the marque. Fine with me! I gotta check Roberts' site, I'm surprised at their teething problems at this stage; to design a new 4 would be murderous wouldn't it? Considering the huge bucks and man-hrs. in the present set-up?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "Frank, money doesn't ever seem to be a problem for King Kenny, ha ha. It's really too bad as it would have been excellent to see a \"triple\" kick some butt on the 4-cylinder GP machines. Might see Larvada in the BEARS racing series (Sound of Thunder series, I beleive it's called now.) and wow, Superbike would be awsome with twins, triples and 4's now we just need a 500cc 6-cylinder, ha ha! Have a funny feeling that the 4-cylinder Robert's motor was being worked as a \"back-up\" incase the triple just wasn't going to cut it! Who know's with Robert's as he's kinda GP racing's mad man anyway."}, {"response": 78, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:18)", "body": "I don't see any reason why a P-twin couldn't be made as powerful as any V-twin. The vibe reducing balance shafts *will* cause it to rev more slowly, which is a definite disadvantage in racing, but in terms of horsepower there's nothing holding it back. An inline 4 is kind of like 2 vertical twins and they put out lots of power. They don't, however, necessarily need a balance shaft (some vibes, but not too bad)."}, {"response": 79, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (21:37)", "body": "As far as I know, power = torque * rpm. What affects rpm affects power."}, {"response": 80, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (21:49)", "body": "True, but you can rev a well balanced P-twin as high as any 90 degree twin. You can have lots of power, but a heavy crankshaft which will result in less acceleration with identical HP figures. Heck, you can do the same with a vibey P-twin, but it hurts reliability, of course. Again, I may be mistaken, but I can't see any reson why you couldn't make a P-twin just as strong as a V-twin."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (21:57)", "body": "What about a parallel twin in a Buell-like frame, with a non-integral, rubber-mounted engine? Isolastic mounts, anyone?"}, {"response": 82, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (22:16)", "body": "That's not a bad idea, but a nice solid frame does lend stiffness. I wonder if their \"uni-planar\" mounting system would help at all with a P-twin. The idea behind their mounting system is that all mounts are in a single plane that runs vertically and front to back on the bike, minimizing the severe front to back shaking of the narrow angle Harley frame."}, {"response": 83, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (22:26)", "body": "It probably wouldn't help at all. Doesn't a parallel twin rock from side to side? Has anyone tried an inline twin in a longditudinal and horizontal plane, a la the K-bike configuration? Or a layout like the Brough Superior Dream (two flat-twins one atop the other, counter-rotating crankshafts geared together with a BMW-style shaft arrangement)? Real BS Dream, isn't it?"}, {"response": 84, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (22:43)", "body": "Either side to side or top to bottom. I don't know. I should write Gordon Jennings."}, {"response": 85, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (11:42)", "body": "Twice mentioned is \"heavier crank\" which is a limter of itself. The Ptwin stress threshold is a real limiter in design of the entire drivetrain, just ask the Meriden boys! Funny BJ i never gave thought to the idea of KR having a different motor up his sleeve, and I thought backing money was still tenuous compared to other teams. I look at him as the Penske of the cycle teams as far as ideology."}, {"response": 86, "author": "Marlboro", "date": "Thu, Dec 25, 1997 (13:46)", "body": "Am working on a 63ish Royal Enfield I pick up out of a guys basement for 200.00 and am planing on doing in the old \"Rockers\" style. Have been looking at the new Triumph Trophy for cross country use, will have to see how $ is in the spring. Am hoping to have a new bike payment in march."}, {"response": 87, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (12:48)", "body": "Pat, the new Triumphs are really nice machines, I had a 95 Triumph Speed Triple and a 95 Thunderbird. I lost my job and had to sell the bike (I traded in the ST for the T-Bird) due to lose of job early in the year. The local Triumph dealer sell's 3 to 1, Tiger D-P bikes over all the other models. Could be that being in Colorado is what makes the sales. Wish I could aford a Trophy Sport tourer but that will be many years in the future if ever. Have fun with the \"Rockers\" bike, it sounds like major fun to e. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 88, "author": "Marlboro", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (14:36)", "body": "Rode the Trophy this last spring, very comfy, and handles better than a Harley bagger. Sold me the first mile."}, {"response": 89, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (14:58)", "body": "Pat, welcome! Though I don't favor \"riding\" choppers, I have admired and appreciated many, especially the original British jobs, where it all started. Are you working with an Enfield Interceptor? Around 736cc, circa mid-60's? These are all pretty rare birds!"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Marlboro", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (20:46)", "body": "No, it is supposedly a 63 metor minor with a factory race kit 1 of 79 produced, but I am still waiting on comfermation from Greenland on that info.."}, {"response": 91, "author": "lucien", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "I'm sort of torn as to what my next bike will be. If Honda still made the CB1000, that would probably be it. I presently have a '96 Nighthawk 750 and love the low maintainance and overall good quality. I wouldn't mind something a bit bigger with some more power and less vibration for long rides... Tourers are too big for me, and the insurance/maintanance on the sport bikes is a bit much... I may have to run down to Woods today and see if the CB1000 has come back or not 8) LS W5QD"}, {"response": 92, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (16:58)", "body": "Sorry my friend but the BIG ONE is now just history! I am buying a 98 CB750 Nighthawk and surely wish that they had a 900F version to someday upgrade up to. The Euro version of the CB750 looks like a mini-version of the CB1000, wish the USA version was the same. I too really liked the CB1000 but they just de-gutted the CBR1000F engine too much for US riders choices. The 1200 Suzuki Bandit would be a great choice for you, real motor and decent ergonomics too boot. At around $7,000 dollars, you just can't beat the 1200 Bandit. Still it's to bad no builds a true 1000cc Standard anymore as it would be well received by old guys like myself. Happy New Year, BJ"}, {"response": 93, "author": "TRA", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (19:26)", "body": "BJ I thought that you and Jo were getting 800 Intruders?What changed your mind/ Happy TRAils/NSD Paul"}, {"response": 94, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (21:07)", "body": "Paul, yea I just decided that I like to run the twisty's and a standard would do better job than a cruiser. I like the fact I can make the bike into what I want, when I want. #2, I really make lousy \"REAL BIKER type\", ha ha. I make a better geekish standard rider! The old fat body is just too beat up for a decent sportbike but the next machine will be either a ST1100 or a full boat tourer Kawasaki Voyager. I plan on riding the CB750 for a minimum of 2 years to see how the job goes before I be stupid and try to \"step up\" again. Happy New Year! BJ"}, {"response": 95, "author": "lucien", "date": "Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (19:08)", "body": "Well, that's true about the CB1000's motor; even so, it still put out 100hp. 'Course, the bike weighed about 500lbs or more dry.... Meanwhile, my goal is to pay off my 750 and then perhaps think about upping to another bike. It's going to take a little longer to pay off since I bought the 3yr extended warranty. Good thing I did, since there is a possible trouble spot - the #2 cylinder measured slightly low compression at the 8k checkup. It was 160lbs... gotta get a shop manual and see how much within spec that is (is it well within spec, or just barely?). Otherwise, my plan is to just keep it since I've gotten good service out of it. LS"}, {"response": 96, "author": "lucien", "date": "Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (19:11)", "body": "oh also, yeah, I've heard good things about the Bandit 1200.. Havn't seen any, though, around here. I'm suspicious of new models of anything (known in the software world as the \"release 1.0\" syndrome). The new YZF1000 looks like a hell of a bike - may wait a while for the bugs to shake out and see what happens with it. LS"}, {"response": 97, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (20:29)", "body": "Well I to figure that I will have to ride the Nighthawk for more like 5 years. I have the bike paid off from the start which is an advantage. Let me know about the 2nd. cylinder low compression problem, so I can have them watch mine for any problems. Lot's of 1200 Bandit's around here but don't blame ya on the first year model jitters. A 100 HP is plenty for me but you know how crazy Americans are with power, 98% of them can't ride the bike anywhere near it's potential but macho states \"must have more po er\"!!! Tailwinds, BJ http://members.tripod.com/~britrider/index.html"}, {"response": 98, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec 29, 1997 (10:45)", "body": "The platforms spoken about here are designed and built to be as bulletproof as they get. A new Big Bandit has to be the best deal in \"sport\"touring I've seen in a long time. The Yam R1 is no tourer, just sport, *serious* sport! I hear ya BJ, anything I look at has to be with an eye towards keeping a long time, in terms of buying different bikes every time I get attracted, I missed that boat when I bought the house and had 2 kids (o:}"}, {"response": 99, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 29, 1997 (20:45)", "body": "Frank, the kids are all grown up and I can never afford a house payment here in Colorado Springs. I can't do it anymore becuase I didn't go to college, Iam over 40 and make minimum factory wage. So I gota wait till I get a hell of a lot of raise's before I can ever step up again, may be riding CB750 Nighthawk's for the rest of my days! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 100, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (14:21)", "body": "Somehow I doubt it, BJ. You go through bikes almost as fast as I. A terminal illness in which you feel an uncontrollable desire to ride every bike you can get your hands on. I know because I suffer from it too. :-) Marlboro, are you British yourself? I see you using words like \"rockers\" which I don't hear often."}, {"response": 101, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (23:47)", "body": "Well my friend the time has come, the money is in and tommrow I go pick up the shiney new Nighthawk!! You'd figure this would not really excite me after all the upper class machines I have had in the past 4 year. Just the oppsite, can't wait to get my hands on it and creating the BJ Ondo Nighthawk. Sorry for bothering you all with this for the \"9,000th.\" time but It's such a great feeling , I had to share it with somebody, ha ha ha. Happy New Year my friends. Tailwinds, BJ Ondo"}, {"response": 102, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (02:16)", "body": "Great! Congrats. When does Jo pick up her bike? I hope that I can keep my finances in order and be doing something similar before too horribly long, whether it's new or used."}, {"response": 103, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (10:49)", "body": "Jon, oops in all the hubub, I forgot that yes, Jo will pick up her Intruder today as well. I hope things do work out for you to, it's nice to know that sometimes in this struggle we call life, nice things can happen. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 104, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (12:16)", "body": "Alright BJ. You won't need a ski in place of the front tire will ya? *GRiNs* Jon, hang in there..I expect to see you this June on a shiny new ???. You like the Triumphs, check out the Trophy (sport) tourer..nice bike."}, {"response": 105, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (13:39)", "body": "Hey, no offense Kevin, but the only response to that is \"yeah right\"! (Grin) No, the Trophy is way to big, heavy, slow and laid back for my taste. IF I get a new Triumph (somehow, I doubt it--I'll wait till '99 probably) it would be a T-Bird Sport. If I get a used one it wouldu be an old style Speed-T or an old Bonnie. The Bonnie may be within my grasp in the next couple of months, so I may do that."}, {"response": 106, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (00:06)", "body": "Thanks Kevin, yea it was so nice to sign the papers and have \"NO PAYMENTS\". It's the first time that has happened in my 21 years of riding. Jon, that T-bird sport is cool but I think you'd really like a 95-96 Speed Triple as it's closer to your Ninja just heavier and more power. I wish I had the ball's to ride and maintain a old Triumph Twin, they are beautiful bikes, good luck my friend! Hopefully 98 will be good for you too! Tailwinds, BJ (offically back in the family!!)"}, {"response": 107, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (04:09)", "body": "Nah, BJ, you never came close to leaving."}, {"response": 108, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (10:16)", "body": "Maybe but Jon do you have any idea how many pair of tennis shoes I've worn out trying to run along side with riders of my local club, ha ha ha ha ha ha! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 109, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (10:28)", "body": "Congrats BJ. Buying a new bike is always exciting. Enjoy it bro! New year, new bike, new shoes(?), same cool BJ!"}, {"response": 110, "author": "Marlboro", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (12:34)", "body": "No, I'm not British, it just wears off of the bikes."}, {"response": 111, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (12:44)", "body": "BJ, Happy F-in' New Year man! Good luck, I know you're feeling good!"}, {"response": 112, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (22:48)", "body": "Thanks Brad and Frank, we put the first 100 miles on the bikes today in almost 60 degree (but windy) weather! Tommrow looks pretty decent too, might just get in 200 miles before the next storm hits. The Nighthawk is turning out to be a \"better overall\" bike than I figured I'd get for the money. It handles good and flicks easy, it still will need the suspension upgrades front and rear, fork brace and bradided brake line to give it the edge to run at a brisk pace. It could really use a \"6th.\" gear, I wil have to reduce the teeth on the rear sprocket by 2 and get the slight top end buzz out for highway work. It's nice to say I got \"more\" than I figured I would out of my money. Just think 3 Nighthawks are $16,200 dollars, less than one BMW K1200RS or R1100RT and only $3,000 more than one Ducati ST-2 or ST1100 ABS/TCS models. Life below $10,000 ain't all that bad. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 113, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (09:56)", "body": "Geez! 100 miles and you're already into the catalogs/shop work! (o; What's your highway cruise speed generally? It buzzes enough that you'd drop the rear teeth? Surprised, on a 'Hawk. Mine was screaming a little and I do a lot of 80mph cruising so I dropped, but I kind of knew a 650 would be that way. Changed it more for less engine/valve stress than my own discomforts."}, {"response": 114, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (10:29)", "body": "Frank, I think it's just the way they set up the gearing from the factory. The 82 Nighthawk felt the same way, a little buzzy and real busy sounding and I was only cruising at max. (just a few miles) of 65mph. The Interstates out here are 75 mph. and I just figure that it will buzz a little more and sound even busy'er at +10 mph. Well it could be from my bad tedonites (both wrist's and elbows) that make the \"buzz\" bother me worse than the normal person. Either bike I would have purchased (Sporty or Hawk) are very basic machines that need a little help to come up somewhere near the \"expensive bikes\". To it's credit, the Nighthawk will take much less to bring it up to par than the Sporty would have. I have wondered if constant high speed cruising (80+), would \"hurt\" a bike with hydralic valves?? If I remember right, they don't put hydr-valves in performance machines cause they won't take the stress other valve types will. I have found that Honda has 3 iffernt kits to up the performance of the CB750 so Iam gona do some research (just for the fun of it). Wish I could get my uncle Merlin to breath some of his magic on that motor, it'd have to be called the \"Super Nighthawk\" then, ha ha. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 115, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (11:13)", "body": "Just my opinion, based on a friend who still has an original CB750 Sport (78 I think): He's been all aover the US with just regular maintenance, no mods other than a pipe. Hondas are bulletproof for all but the most demanding dragger or racer."}, {"response": 116, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (12:57)", "body": "No, the limitation of hydraulic valves is RPMs, but as long as you stay below redline you'll be fine."}, {"response": 117, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (12:58)", "body": "What's the redline? You can't have hydraulic valves and go past about 10,000 rpms from what I understand. But I wouldn't worry--it'll save you tons of maintanence."}, {"response": 118, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (15:32)", "body": "So the Nighthawk has hydralic valves? I'm assuming they self-adjust too..that'd be nice."}, {"response": 119, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (20:34)", "body": "I remember from the MO article \"Frugal Flyers\" that the Nighthawk 750s valves do self adjust, a feature they shared only with those of the 883 Sportster in that lineup. The Yamaha Seca II, the Kawasaki Vulcan 500, the Suzuki Bandit 600 and the (now defunct) MZ Saxon Tour all required periodic valve adjustments. I could be wrong, though. Check it out."}, {"response": 120, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (20:34)", "body": "Jon and Frank, thanks for the information, the redline is 8,500 RPM. Iam not a racer so seems I should be ok, up to 175 miles as of today but had to come back in as high, gusty winds made the ride pretty chilly indeed. Kevin, I do beleive they are self-adjust, has hydralic clutch also, if they'd have kept the shaftdrive of the 700S model (and the cool cafe racer looks), it would be a maintance free as the PC800. For now it's got a small shield, tank & tail bags so it ready to sport tour. Later, I hope o be able to cafe style the bike as it might look great. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 121, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sat, Jan  3, 1998 (15:57)", "body": "BJ, I know your probably right..who believes half of what they say in the mags anyway. The Classic I test rode was pretty peppy, but only had 3 miles on the odometer so I never got on it at all. I've always heard the Suzukis have good pep and it's probably a lighter easier to handle bike. Sounds you're having great fun so far. Spring time isn't too far away now as the days are getting longer. *GRiNs*"}, {"response": 122, "author": "lucien", "date": "Sun, Jan  4, 1998 (11:04)", "body": "BJ and all, PMJI, but, yes, the hydraulic lifters in the Nighthawk don't require any adjustment (my '96 now has 10k miles on it and no adjust..8)). I don't know if they are the reason for the low redline or not; the bike I had before this one was an '86 Nighthawk 700SC and its redline was 10,500. It had hydraulic lifters too. So, I'm not sure why the 750 has such a low redline. As far as the highway buzz, yeah I've noticed a buzz too once you get over about 65mph. It's not really objectionable, but it will wear you down a little on long rides. I've thought about putting a smaller chainring on the back too, except that I rarely ride much faster than 65 here. And, if I really have to jam at 65, I still have to drop down into 4th... So BJ, enjoy the new bike! You'll notice a little more power is available once you get up to about 800 miles or so. Couple of things to watch for - it might use a little oil (about 1/2 quart every 2k miles); mine does and it's normal. So, keep an eye on the dipstick. Post whatever mods you make to the bike and let us know how it goes. I'd like to do some monkying with the mixture (bad lean spot at about 4k rpm 8((), but that might void the warranty. LS"}, {"response": 123, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Jan  4, 1998 (12:26)", "body": "10,500 is a low redline these days. I think that the valve train is heavier because of the hydraulic adjusters. A high redline is 12K and up."}, {"response": 124, "author": "lucien", "date": "Sun, Jan  4, 1998 (21:54)", "body": "yep, it's unbelievable. The 600 class bikes have redline's like 13.5 or even higher.. That's why they have to have those high-tech ignition systems. Even on my model fourstrokes (1.5 cubic inch and down), the redline isn't this high; they max at about 12k.. My thinking is that the 750 may be a stroker; that could account for the low redline. Oh well; the power bandwidth still isn't much less than my 700 SC - that engine wouldn't really make any power until about 7k (which gave me about a 4k bandwidth of real power), but my 750 starts making power right at 5k. That's still a 3.5k powerband. Also, the 750 is driveable as low as 2k. The 700 was not. LS."}, {"response": 125, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Jan  4, 1998 (23:20)", "body": "Got 255 miles on the weekend not bad for Jan. Ya Iam really enjoying the simpleness of a standard 4-cylinder bike. It's quite fun to ride, can't wait till summer! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 126, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Jan  5, 1998 (06:58)", "body": "Welcome Pat - I know Im late but the holiday season slows down the brain! - and I only have net access at work! :) Nice to see another chop rider in the mix"}, {"response": 127, "author": "planeman", "date": "Mon, Jan 12, 1998 (23:58)", "body": "Congratulations on the new Nighthawk! Its hell having a new bike in the dead of winter - so much ridin' to do, so few good days."}, {"response": 128, "author": "TIM", "date": "Mon, Nov 23, 1998 (04:13)", "body": "I know what i'd like my next bike to be. I'd like to get a harley road king. I think that they offer the best bang for the buck of any harley."}, {"response": 129, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (19:18)", "body": "Mine will be a HONDA... an F-whatever is new when I finally buy a new bike. I ride a '93 Zawasaki ZX6 now. It's a difficult bike to ride because Kawi's are top-heavy...all the weight is in the front. HONDA F3 is so centered... all the weight is under you. But, I'm staying with my Kawi for now... she's got a lot more miles in her."}, {"response": 130, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (19:44)", "body": "Wow...you mean policemen are riding around on unbalanced 'cycles?! Somehow I should think they would check for that - or are they all on Harleys? Btw, if money were no object, what is your dream machine?"}, {"response": 131, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (20:34)", "body": "This year... hmmm, I only look at the 600's because it's all the bike I really need. So in the 600 series, if I could buy tomorrow it'd be an HONDA F4. But if I could buy two, one to ride and another to just drool on, my drooler would be a Ducati, either a MH 900e or a Monster 900. My main ride would still be the HONDA F4."}, {"response": 132, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (20:38)", "body": "Never been astride one of any sort, but it sound fantastic. All that massive throbbing machinery ....*gasp* excuse me...I was overcome momentarily. Gonna ask John - used to be his main means of transportation..."}, {"response": 133, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (20:41)", "body": "As far as 'unbalanced' I'm speaking as a 5'7\" woman... the location of the zx6's center of gravity as it relates to my ability to hold the bike up while standing next to it (I'm fine on it) is where the unbalance thing comes in. It only has to tip a little bit the opposite side I'm standing and my angle of leverage to hold it up is gone... then KA-BOOM, it hits the ground. I therefore don't move my bike unless I'm sitting on it. 425lbs pretty much has a mind of it's own when it tips."}, {"response": 134, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (20:48)", "body": "I can imagine. I am an inch shorter than you are so it would be worse for me. Astride...we are all in control...*grin*"}, {"response": 135, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (20:59)", "body": "Yee-hah! You go grrl!"}, {"response": 136, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (21:17)", "body": "Ummmm! Now go post that picture!"}, {"response": 137, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (21:20)", "body": "Couldn't resist... A woman was driving down the highway about 75 miles an hour, when she noticed a motorcycle policeman following her. Instead of slowing down, she picked up speed. When she looked back again, their were two motorcycles following her. She shot up to 90 miles. The next time she looked around, there were three cops following her. Suddenly, she spotted a gas station looming ahead. She screeched to a stop and ran into the ladies' room. Ten minutes later, she innocently walked out. The three cops were standing there waiting for her. Without batting an eye, she said coyly, \"I'll bet none of you thought I would make it.\""}, {"response": 138, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Tue, Apr 25, 2000 (21:57)", "body": "That's funny!"}, {"response": 139, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Apr 26, 2000 (13:57)", "body": "*grin* Thought so, too..."}, {"response": 140, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Apr 26, 2000 (16:34)", "body": "Not sure about dream bike. But I really liked our Suzuki 400cc Trail bike, and I'd get another one if poss. The pillion seat (which I ride) was a bit rudimentary and the Banjul to Dakar (Africa) run got a bit too much, but it was great on the dirt roads. Much better road holding than the Suzuki 125s that we started off with. The number of times I came off in the mud riding through the ford to our village on the 125..... I even managed to take the top off my toe coming down after a bump - well, I was wearing flip flops, and was stupid. Didn't do that again! Was brought up with motorbikes, my dad, both my brothers and my (then) boyfriend and friends all rode. I'm too short, legs don't reach the ground, but I'm pretty good a fiddling a carbureter! I always wanted to sidecar race at Crystal Palace."}, {"response": 141, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Wed, Apr 26, 2000 (16:58)", "body": "no such thing as 'too short' anymore. the bike manufacturers have lowered the hieght of many bikes because so many women are riding. one of my friends, Judy Mirro (writer for CyberCycleMag, Motorcycle World and others, racer, and all round great gal) is all of 4'10\" (MAYBE). There is nothing she can't ride... it's a hoot to watch her mount up sometimes. She's also a motorcycle safety instructor, lest you think she reckless. I'll try to dig up the online vid she made on 'how a short girl can mount her bike\". You should check out the new bikes... you'll love riding your own!!"}, {"response": 142, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Apr 26, 2000 (17:01)", "body": "*sigh* Sounds like the best offer I've had in a long time, and it does not care what I look like... On top and in control. I like that!"}, {"response": 143, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Apr 26, 2000 (17:02)", "body": "Thanks for the links - going to check them out!"}, {"response": 144, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Apr 26, 2000 (17:06)", "body": "Maggie! You never cease to amaze me...! You have done rallying?"}, {"response": 145, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Thu, Apr 27, 2000 (12:02)", "body": "As promised... click on this link to go to a back issue of CyberCycle Magazine, where Judy Mirro writes about being a short cyclist. In/on the story is another link to a short QuickTime vid of her mounting up. http://www.motorcycleworld.com/cybercyclemag/rl9.html Enjoy!!"}, {"response": 146, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Apr 27, 2000 (13:07)", "body": "No no rallying just dirt bike riding on pillion. My dream was to side car. Oh, i got told off - forgot to mention husband in the list of motor bike freaks I know, silly really since he's the main one I ride with. I heard about the new bikes, but I don't think they get exported to Africa! The littel Suzuki's are most popular, and probably what we'll get. The trail bike was bought from frineds going home, and was a rarity, we had no problem selling it! My neighbour works for Harley Davison, and is an ex-Angel. T just read out in the paper that there's a free charity parachute jump coming up - he knew I'd be interested - another ambition!!! Shall I?????????"}, {"response": 147, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Apr 27, 2000 (22:26)", "body": "You're kidding, right? You pray all the time anyway. Just add a soft landing to your list *grin* Then tell us about it!"}, {"response": 148, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (06:33)", "body": "No I'm not kidding! It's something i always wanted to do. the family are just calling my bluff. Maybe I'll surprise them."}, {"response": 149, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (06:47)", "body": "Do it Maggie! My best friend's son just turned 18 and since he was 14 he's been saying he wanted a jump for the 18th. So, she got him one... and up until he came out of the plane we were certain he would chicken out as he's NOT a risk taker (read that spends his life happily ensconced on the sofa). Not only did the kid leap, he loved it. He said just don't look down as you come out of the plane. Oh yeah, his was a 'tandem' jump where they strap you to the jumpmaster, who is pretty much in control."}, {"response": 150, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (13:38)", "body": "Maggie. GO FOR IT. Just, please, Don't land on Stonehenge!!!"}, {"response": 151, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (17:09)", "body": "Nah, Marlow - probably Higginson Park or the Thames knowing my luck! do i really have the nerve. I'm going to ring to find out more."}, {"response": 152, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (21:00)", "body": "Are you going to yell \"Geronimo\" when you bail out? If so, why?"}, {"response": 153, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (21:42)", "body": "I think if I were to ever jump out of aperfectly good airplane, folks on the ground were hear \"Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!\" or \"Oh god oh god oh god oh god\" depending on my mood that day ;-) I think I want to jump... fortunately it is far too expensive for my wallet ($200 for the jump, $100 for a seven minute video). So I will wait for jumping until after I win a substantial LOTTO."}, {"response": 154, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Apr 28, 2000 (22:07)", "body": "I hear that! I asked John about the Geronimo-yelling. He used to jump out of perfectly good airplanes with radio gear for the USN over 'Nam. Not for the faint-hearted...This guy is a rock!"}, {"response": 155, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Apr 29, 2000 (20:06)", "body": "Gena, do you know a Mark Paquette? If so email me...please!"}, {"response": 156, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Apr 30, 2000 (06:17)", "body": "Hubby is getting grey when I talk about it (and that may the main reason I don't do it ...), haven't rung up yet cos it's bank holiday here. I think he's afraid I'll go splat! I rather suspect, knowing me, that I'll just hold my breath until i've pulled the rip cord! (and be concentrating on counting madly!). Gina, I think the prices are about the same here, except for these charity jumps, where you have to raise funds for the charity by jumping."}, {"response": 157, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Apr 30, 2000 (15:40)", "body": "Poor Tony! See, he does love you! Don't think I have ever caused anyone to turn grey for me. Hair, maybe...face, don't think so."}, {"response": 158, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, May  1, 2000 (00:39)", "body": "We had a serious talk about it yesterday. He said he felt he had to tell me about the jump because he had seen it in the paper and knew I hadn't, but he was scared for me to do it. Very sweet."}, {"response": 159, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Mon, May  1, 2000 (12:42)", "body": "Maggie, do a tandem jump if they offer them... they'll strap you to the front of a jumpmaster (might be fun ;-) ) and he'll take care of the old ripcord. Hubby might be more comfy with that... unless of course the jumpmaster looks like jean claude van damm."}, {"response": 160, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, May  1, 2000 (14:17)", "body": "i think he's just leery of me doing anything dangerous. We've almost 'lost' each other several times already, so I guess he has cause! I shall investigate and check out what is involved. It may be that the amount needed to be collected for charity is beyond me."}, {"response": 161, "author": "Nighthawk750", "date": "Sun, Jun 10, 2001 (13:09)", "body": "I can only dream about a new motorcycle at the time, but I am torn between a large japanese cruiser. Honda is doing an awesome flame job on the new shadow sabres and the new Kawasaki Vulcans look very vintage, but there is still a part of me that is hooked on speed and adrenaline, therefore, I long for the performance that the RC51 has to offer."}, {"response": 162, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jun 10, 2001 (14:01)", "body": "What's your time frame for getting a new bike? What do you have now? motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 30, "subject": "What makes that good ol' Harley sound?", "response_count": 33, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "Let's see, What DOES make that Harley sound?? an 80's Virago with the ignition advanced and the idle turned down makes that Harley sound.... Volkswagon Beetles that have a burned bank of plugs makes that sound.... There are a ton of clones that make that sound... Not all Harley's make that sound.... Maybe they should PATENT the sound.... (sorry, already tried that)... hehehe.... Okay enough fun pokin'... There is really nothing that will imitate 100% the sound of a Big Twin Harley (they even vary from bike to bike)... It's part of the mystique and the legend... and alot of what the writer in Brad's post was talking about.... And how in the heck do you have time to be in the house on the Puter with a NEW ROAD KING IN THE GARAGE???? Congrats!!! Get your motor runnin, head out on the highway... Looking for adventure, in whatever comes our way..... etc"}, {"response": 2, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (23:36)", "body": "Planeman, ya congrats my friend talk about a great ride for the first \"bike back into the fold\"!! H-D sounds like it does due to the combination of a pushrod, 45 degree, single crank pin engine. No body else uses \"pushrods and single pin crank in a 45 degree V-twin. Most of the Japanese bikes use Single overhead cams and anywhere from 45 to 73 degree V-twins. Enjoy it my firend but be careful that's a might big and heavy bike after such a long time away from riding! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 3, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (00:05)", "body": "I did some research a while back about why a Harley sounds like it does. I found some engineering papers that went into a lot of detail and it turns out that there are a lot of reasons - the single carb feeding the T-shaped manifold, the wasted spark igniting a small amount of unburned fuel on the exhaust stroke, and on and on, but the biggest reason is that the firing arrangement is 540/180 degrees apart, it is uneven. The first cylinder fires and one and a half crank revolutions (540 degrees) later, he second fires and after another half crank revolution (180), the first fires again. Other twins fire 360 degrees apart and are lacking that loping idle of the Harley."}, {"response": 4, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (00:13)", "body": "Humm see with a Japanese cruiser, the only reason I would but a aftermarket exhaust on it would be to \"open up\" the flow for better breathing, sound means nothing. Steve has a point, it's pretty useless to \"copy harley sound\" unless you take the whole motor and make it old fashion on purpose! The Honda ACE model's have 180 degree single pin cranks but use SOHC so right there the sound although kinda simular won't be quite the same. BJ"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (00:54)", "body": "The Harley sound is a great question. I think the single pin crank, the pushrods, and the dual fire (stock) ignition are the biggest factors. IMHO, the idle of a shovelhead is the sweetest sound of all the Harleys. There is something that baffles me. I have attended Harley drag races 3 times. When the Pro & Top Fuel bikes are idling, they sound more like a Kawasaki than a Harley. The modifications completely change the sound of the bike. Hoop"}, {"response": 6, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (01:02)", "body": "They have probably been modified to fire at 360 degrees. It would basicaly be a matter of changing cam timing."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (02:29)", "body": "If a wasted spark is part of the Harley Sound then they can have it! This despite the fact that my bike, if it ever runs again, will probably also have a wasted spark (but it wouldn't have been done for a sound!)! Doesn't this drain the battery more? How can I get rid of it, or does the necessary hardware cost more than the battery life it will save? Do CDI sysems have this?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (03:48)", "body": "the single carb feeding the T-shaped manifold The reason for the idle sound is that it's actually a very poor design and is misfiring at idle, giving it an even more uneven sound. I don't think it would be possible to make a 2 carb twin idle like this. When they came out with fuel injection, the engineers actually considered dialing in a computer synthesized misfire! Amazing that it even crossed their minds! But, luckily, they decided against it."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "Whether sitting or rolling, all Harleys produce a lumpy exhaust note. I believe this is primarily from the use of a single-pin crank with heavy flywheel, and a single cam to operate both inlet valves. Operating both valves of a 45-degree twin with a single cam produces asymmetrical valve timing--opening and closing times of the two cylinders are a little different. At idle, a carbed Harley's lumpy exhaust gains an accentuated \"lope\" presumably because of the misfiring which occurs about once every 10 beats. Essentially, the bike misses a beat every so often, yeilding an uneven cadence. When the rpms rise, the lump remains but the rythm evens out. The FI bikes have that distinctive Harley lumpiness, but the rythm is even all the time, including at idle. HD is attempting to get the sound produced by their motor \"trademarked\". My understanding is that the trademark would be based on the complete sound profile produced by the bike--not just carbed bikes at idle. BTW, that distinctive lump is present whether the bike is running factory pipes or aftermarket pipes (much louder lump), so that distinction (often debated) is probably moot as far as a trademark would be concerned. Sound volume is not the issue. Remember, a trademark is not a patent! However, the affect on competitors may be even stronger. I would imagine that if HD is successful, manufacturers who use a single-pin crank configurations to \"approximate\" the HD sound could be subject to litigation. Both Honda and Kawasaki have openly admitted that they wanted to produce such a sound with the ACE and Vulcan, and both are challenging the trademark application. However, the cloners are HD's most likely victims, as well they should be. Producing replacement parts is one thing--copying the motor (and bikes for that matter) down to the last washer is something else again! The quality of the individual parts aside, there can't be any denying that the sound from an aftermarket EVO is identical to a factory one! He who trademarked first may have the last cough! hehe. Play me a song Mr. Harley man!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "jammie", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (20:45)", "body": "You get the Harley sound from the use of l950's engin technology."}, {"response": 11, "author": "jammie", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (20:47)", "body": "You get the Harley sound, shake, rattle, and rumble from using l950's engine technology."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (09:36)", "body": "Well Jim, some things just stand the test of time better than others. That's the true definition of a classic, like Harley-Davidson. Happy Days!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (10:44)", "body": "So Jim, what's your take on Guzzis, Ducatis, and any older bike? I don't remember what you ride. Each bike attracts many people for the motor itself more than anything, shortcomings accepted. Some prefer the pipe&jet wail, others the throb/booming,etc. For myself, the age and techno-level aren't a part of what really speaks to me or completes a judgement on my choice (or others') of ride."}, {"response": 14, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (22:10)", "body": "Hey, I admit--I like the Harley sound. I idled my old XS650 about 300 rpms too low trying to emulate the slow lump (unsuccessfully, of course). Who invented the single pin V-twin crank? It wasn't HD. The estate/family of whoever invented it should sue Harley. It's ludicrous to force users to use a particular crank shaft configuration. \"Dual Pin is o.k., single is not\". Is it just me or does this sound insane?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (22:14)", "body": "This reminds me of Microsoft's attempt to trademark the word \"Windows\". The judge ruled that a common word can't be trademarked. (The word Windows describes an item in an interface, whether it's MS, Apple, Unix, etc.). I'd say the same should hold true for Harley. The single pin crank has been around longer than HD has, and is in common use."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Shane", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "Yeah, tell it to the SARAN WRAP people.... hehehe"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (11:16)", "body": "As a guy who does a lot of intellectual-property stuff, I agree with the SC decisions; Kleenex, Xerox, Cigarette(boats), and several others ran through the \"Saran Wrap\" court gauntlet to preserve a trademark only, not an entire concept or design itself (tissues,copiers,v-bottoms). I guess HD feels the money is well spent as a reinforcer of their position in the cycle-engineering world, they can't possible believe they could ban the engineering itself."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (12:03)", "body": "That's why HD isn't pursuing a patent--the engineering components are not unique, but the sound of the HD motor based on it's total configuration is unique--hence the trademark. Anyone who claims the sound isn't unique needs to have their ears examined (or wait for a straight-piped bike to come by)! Forget about it! BTW, it doesn't matter who invented a single pin crank or other components. The fact is, that when HD began the application process for a trademark in the early 1990's, they were the ONLY motorcycle company that HAD or WANTED that special sound. Indian was, and is dead! Moreover, at that time, other companies, especially the Japanese were critisizing HD's motors as crude and outdated. Now that the Japanese are on the lumpy sound bandwagon, they're are all indignant about the trademark. As are the rip ff \"boutique\" bike makers using carbon-copy EVO clones. Believe me--I'm crying a river of crocodile tears! As they say in NY, \"Crank this baby\"! hehe"}, {"response": 19, "author": "orewing", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (14:32)", "body": "Same old stuff ha Brad. By the Way on a different note Crossroads the old standby is back up on line and working. Whats the deal Jon I thought it was gone for good."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (15:23)", "body": "Great to hear from ya Marc. You must be spending all your time Star gazing in RSTAR! hehe. I'll try the XRoads and see what gives. Thanks for the tip! Nice to cross your road again!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (15:26)", "body": "What????? What address are you using?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (18:13)", "body": "I blew off the URL, and when I used \"woodstock\" & \"linus\" I got nowhere. Marc or Brad can you post the URL? Again. For what it's worth?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (19:25)", "body": "O.K., \"linus\" does NOT WORK! Hey Marc! Let us in, willya?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "pc006", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "Alot of speculation goin on here. Steve is actually 100% correct: The biggest reason is that the firing arrangement is 540/180 degrees apart, it is uneven. The first cylinder fires and one and a half crank revolutions (540 degrees) later, the second fires and after another half crank revolution (180), the first fires again. Dave Dave's Harley Page http://www.pipeline.com/~pc006"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (12:04)", "body": "Dave, the firing arrangement must be directly influenced by, and related to other motor components and configurations. FOI, could you please elaborate? Ok kids, let's look inside the potato-maker!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (10:04)", "body": "Brad, as far as the \"sound\" deal for Harley, I don't see the Japanese being any threat to Harley. See the largest percent of Jap cruisers are still using double pin, 360 degree cranks as the Jap cruiser \"rider\" doesn't care for the \"vibrations\" of a single pin, 180 crank. Yes the Honda Shadow ACE, but only one model, the ACE Tourer went back to the double pin, 360 system so I think the Jap Mfgr's. are figuring out that \"cruiser riders\" for their products, like the \"STYLE\" but don't want the higher prices ie: dealer out the door, not MSRP) or the excessive vibrations of the Harleys (the Rubber Glides are an exception of course). The new Suzuki FAT Intruder is still double pin crank so even if the Jap Manufacture's are still yapin about the \"LAW\", if your trying to make a Jap Cruiser \"SOUND\" like a Harley-Davidson, just quit wasting your time as it ain't never gona happen!!! Now adding a aftermarket exhaust to let it breath better and add to the bikes natural sound is fine as EPA tries to kill all sound no matter what country the bikes hail from. I think the folks at Harley have more to worry about from the \"growing clone makers\" and compaines like Polaris and EH than any of the Japanese Manufacture's. Why the hell can't we all just get along and RIDE, sometimes I thing we are all spoiled brats and maybe the government should abolish us we seem so childlike! Ride to Live, Live to Ride, that should be the true moto no matter where our bikes where put together from a pile of parts!!!!!!! BJ"}, {"response": 27, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (10:36)", "body": "I agree with most of what your comments BJ. However, remember that the HD trademark was not originated due to competition from the Japanese--it was the engine/bike cloners HD was after back in the early 1990s. It just so happens that during the process, Honda and Kawasaki decided to try to produce that lumpy HD-style sound, and actually changed (detuned) their motors to achieve it. Will it ever be exactly the same? Probably not, but trademarks are like horseshoes and hand-grenades--close counts! I co ld really care less since it's a corporate fight, not a fight between riders. BTW, I also agree with you on the EPA, although international noise and pollution movement is much more threatening to our long-run, collective future. International cooperation is fine--global oppression is not!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (14:37)", "body": "Yeah, I can understand that, Brad. These EVO knock offs are a copyright infringement. But somehow I don't see why they would use this technique if they were worried about these guys ripping them off. Fact is they're cranking out engines with their design. THAT'S enough of a copyright violation, why come up with this screwy \"copyrighted sound\" stuff?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (17:15)", "body": "It's called MARKETING...... hehehe"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Nighthawk750", "date": "Sun, Jun 10, 2001 (13:42)", "body": "What makes the Harley sound? One of the piston strokes is slightly shorter than the other, combined with the right set of pipes, Harleys have that offtime sound that \"everyone\" craves instead of an even \"one-Two\" sound of balanced cylinders. I wouldn't pay the price difference just for the sound and the name."}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jun 10, 2001 (14:04)", "body": "Hmm, wondered about that."}, {"response": 32, "author": "fishinnutinwis", "date": "Thu, Jun 14, 2001 (11:20)", "body": "i thought it was the combination of exhaust mixed with the beating of the heart."}, {"response": 33, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Jun 14, 2001 (12:02)", "body": "Actually I thought it was a rather hairy male revving up ....My neighbour works for them ....and keeps his Harley in the dining room motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 31, "subject": "Serious Stuff (really)", "response_count": 48, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (10:14)", "body": "Very nice Shane--now I'll have XMas wallpaper on my computer (saved the image)! Happy holidays Santa--hope you get some chrome for that Sled! hehe BTW, does Santa have to wear a helmet?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "yves", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (16:25)", "body": "Shane, it's toooo much."}, {"response": 3, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (11:23)", "body": "Http://www.ratshole.com/monsterb.jpg Here's Sam's new dual purpose bike, on loan in the Kentucky mountains I think. (o;{"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (11:48)", "body": "Dear Santa .... please may have one of those monster bikes to use in London, I have been ever so good and every thing ....PLEASE! :)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (14:39)", "body": "That's NUTS! Does that engine really have enough power to spin those wheels at a comfortable level of power?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (15:36)", "body": "Wanna see it on video? It's on the \"Bikes of Sturgis\" tape. Along with the \"Star Trek Trike\" and other classics."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (17:18)", "body": "That would be further proof of the versatility of a Sportster.... I wonder how it \"Handles\".... hehehe"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (00:15)", "body": "EEEEK! Ummm... ermmm... aaarhm...not quite what I had in mind... I will NEVER say that the the Yamaha TW200 looks funny ever again! That thing makes a BOSS HOSS look small! Where's the V-8 motor (or the huge Cummins inline-6 turbodiesel)?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (00:37)", "body": "YOW the Dual-Purpose from Hell!! BJ"}, {"response": 10, "author": "yves", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (02:46)", "body": "I own a BW200, is'nt big no more..."}, {"response": 11, "author": "TRA", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (18:48)", "body": "You mean that thing actually moves?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (06:47)", "body": "I suspect the steering might be a little heavy :)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "Actually when you see it on video the thing is more agile than you would imagine."}, {"response": 14, "author": "yves", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (13:09)", "body": "Must be amphibian?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (17:55)", "body": "I'm with Yves, I'll bet it floats across anything..just don't tip it over."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (22:42)", "body": "Hmm... Maybe I could ride to Daytona on one of those..."}, {"response": 17, "author": "yves", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (03:34)", "body": "It would be a T.P."}, {"response": 18, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (17:15)", "body": "Yves, is that a Triple Purpous? I could just see Sam on that thing crossing thru the Burmuda Triangle and the US Coast Guard trying to figure out what the hell that thing is."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (19:38)", "body": "Well, let 'em search it all they want; they wouldn't find any herb on it! And I'd make sure I get my visa before I set off. But what would I do when I reach land and actually want to ride a motorcycle ?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (00:13)", "body": "True. What's the average sustainable speed? About 5 mph? Looks like it would have pretty heavy steering."}, {"response": 21, "author": "yves", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (03:14)", "body": "You can trailer your's Sam. :o)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "I hope you didn't think I was insinuating anything there Sam. I just thought the CG would trip out on seeing something like that crossing the water. And once you reach land..where do you go on that behemoth? Anywhere it wants to."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (20:13)", "body": "No, the first thing the Coast Guard would do is shout a warning in Spanish or Creole over the P.A. system that I'm entering the U.S. illegally and to prepare to be boarded (if they can find a foot-hold!) They'd probably aim their 30 mm cannons at me, too... Anywhere I want to... If I landed at Miami it'd probably take me three days to reach Ft. Lauderdale!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (10:32)", "body": "Time it right, do a beach landing at Daytona, with \"Bad Boys\" playin' from your bar-mounted woofer system!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (15:07)", "body": "Then the Coast Guard wouldn't even bother to shout; they'd just start blastin!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (16:56)", "body": "ROTFL!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (20:38)", "body": "BTW, what's the subject of this topic? *GRiNs*"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (16:11)", "body": "It was an evil ploy to get all of you to receive your VIRTUAL CHRISTMAS CARDS.... But, Give me a minute and I will probably come up with something serious.... Or not"}, {"response": 29, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sat, Dec 20, 1997 (22:39)", "body": "Merry Christmas to everyone out there in Virtual Bikerland! Click Here For Your Xmas Card"}, {"response": 30, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sat, Dec 20, 1997 (22:54)", "body": "Ooops, let's try this again w/o pw protection! Click Here For Your Xmas Card"}, {"response": 31, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sat, Dec 20, 1997 (22:58)", "body": "Don't know why that one didn't work! One more time. Click Here For Your Xmas Card"}, {"response": 32, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sat, Dec 20, 1997 (23:04)", "body": "I'm making this harder than it should be. Xmas Card"}, {"response": 33, "author": "yves", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (01:58)", "body": "Maybe hard to get the link, but you've made a very nice and good job, thanks. I also wish to all of you my best wishes: Joyeux No\ufffdl, bonne et heureuse ann\ufffde. P.S. Kevin I tough you were younger. So you're the Real Santa? Can I send my list? What kind of tire (those on the bike)? Can I have a pair? :o))"}, {"response": 34, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (03:42)", "body": "Santa on a Royal Star! Wow, I wonder who did that--I've seen a million and one \"Santa on a Harley\"s, but never on a 'Star. Cool!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (09:03)", "body": "Wot, no \"Santa on a Ninja\"? or a Gold Wing (the most appropriate bike for Santa)?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (14:47)", "body": "Actually Sam, there were several cards with Santa on a Gold Wing. Paul Oxman Publishing makes all kinds of Xmas cards on all kinds of bikes from touring, sport and dirt. There's also cards for Indy, NASCAR, snowmobiles, etc. I got three different ones. Click on the link to see all three (I made this page up after I posted the earlier one). Three Xmas Cards The other two are of Santa/Reindeer riding in a pack of Harleys, and Santa with an Indian."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (10:45)", "body": "Thanks K, and have a Merry one yourself! Best Marketing seen this season, the HD dealer here has Santa in the shop available for pix with the kids, every mid-day. My son flipped sitting with Santa on a HSTC."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (16:30)", "body": "and a Happy New Year to all, hoping this will be better than the last!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (00:11)", "body": "Thanks Frank, it's starting out with a real bang for me and Jo, we got our bikes today! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (15:23)", "body": "And I got back online! I've been upgraded to Windows 85, am using Explorer 4.0 instead of Netscape Navigator 3.0. My sister and I have been trying to figure out how to get on for days; I hope I remember how I did it! I moved the carcass into my room where it will shame me into rebuilding it (I HOPE!!!)"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (15:24)", "body": "I hope you realize I meant Windows 95. And this is STILL slow!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (22:55)", "body": "Come on Sam, get the reborn-star up and running, it's a great feeling to be mobile again!! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (10:02)", "body": "Yeah Sam, yeah! Get some after-midnite time and a toolbox and dive in! As we said almost a YEAR ago it probably doesn't need that much tough work...."}, {"response": 44, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (10:31)", "body": "Not quite a year. March will be a year. I have the 'flu right now. Who knows, I may just give it the same treatment that Jimi gave his guitar at Monterey..."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (10:32)", "body": "i.e. BURN IT!!!!!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (11:06)", "body": "I saw a clip of that, where he poured lighter fluid on his guitar and set a match to it. Isn't that being a little hard on yourself?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (11:15)", "body": "A much-treasured image! No Sam, be patient, and feel better!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Jan  2, 1998 (20:40)", "body": "I'll try. Besides if I do give up, I'll just part it out. Too expensive to destroy like that, and besides, it might give a new lease on life to other TwinStars out there. motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 32, "subject": "The Ozarks", "response_count": 34, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (19:48)", "body": "Sorry to hear 'bout your dad. When I hear people moving when in bad health, I more often hear them moving to California than from! What's up? As expected, I have no first hand info on the Ozarks. You could probably e-mail Leslie and ask. OOPS! Just remembered! Leslie's in Alabama, not Arkansas. Sorry about that!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (20:08)", "body": "Hey, if you can still stand my presence after our arguments about the MSF ;-), maybe I'll hitch with you up there, BJ. Keep me informed as the summer progresses and plans become more final. I am definitely going on some kind of trip this summer. I'm negotiating with a company right now to start working for them as a full time employee--one of my requirements is going to be two weeks off this summer. I'd like to go out East, maybe we could ride as far as Missouri and I could leave from there and go exp ore the Deep South?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (20:23)", "body": "One of the best rides I ever had was through the Ozark mountains of Arkansas. I rode thru Arkansas with the idea of staying off the interstates, and picked up up state hiway 65 after weavin' and wobblin' my way over from Memphis on back roads. Then I hit 62, and rode it on up to the area around Rogers. I spent 3 days camped there, while I explored Pea Ridge National Battlefield, and the area back over toward Carroll County. I want to go back up and take state hiway 6/63 all the way across the top of rkansas...only thing is some of the counties up that way are dry, if that is an issue. I broke a piece of shift linkage on the beast coming down off one of the Ozark twisties 'bout 45 MPH or so...did you know you can suck a Harley seat right up your butt??? I was able to fix my problem with a piece of wire (gee, wonder why I had that?) after I stopped. There is a GREAT aftermarket place in Fayetteville that had the piece I needed to get right. The Harley dealer in Tonti-town just outside Fayetteville as such a jerk...trying to sell me a transmission rebuild for a linkage part. I told them they were nuts, and he kept telling me it was the only way it would get fixed. I hope they have folded...bought the part at the aftermarket in Fayetteville and fixed my bike at the campsite. Other than that, the Blaster liked his time in the Ozarks. The only regret I have about my 3 days in the area is that I wish I had ridden up to Branson, MO to see who was appearing. Ed"}, {"response": 4, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (11:46)", "body": "Jon, hey now sweat buddy, I love opinon's that's what makes us different. Yea, I will let you know how the plans unfold as the year goes along. Hope the company picks you up, sounds like a good deal. Ed, thanks Iam not sure of the difference between the Ark.& MO. side of the Ozarks but I will get the \"tourist information\" and do some checking. Sam, the UnGodly price of living in Southern CA. has been real hard on Dad, he lived in Orange County (ie: LA/Anahime area) but was forced to move up to Perris, CA. (high desert) by the high cost's of rent, ect. He needed to get out of the \"killer paced\" rat race called life in Southern California and my step-Mom was for MO. so they decided due to his health that a \"slower lifestyle\" might be benificial. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (14:33)", "body": "California just ain't what it used to be, I guess. I hear that Hollywood has become a really depressed area, a place to avoid! People leaving California for their health (or sanity , or pocketbook), Hollywood being a place to avoid, oh, the times, they are a'changin! They said: Californy's not the place we oughta be...heeheehee"}, {"response": 6, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (23:09)", "body": "Yeah, and they're infesting other parts of the world, especially Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado. It's a swarm!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec 14, 1997 (23:10)", "body": "Do they broadcast the Beverly Hillbillies in Jamaica? Cool! That's my all time favorite sit com. Sue me!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (14:17)", "body": "Wonder if their address was 90210? That truck is like totally wicked dude! hehe"}, {"response": 9, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (18:20)", "body": "Whoa, California is a big place. Only Texas is bigger in the lower 48 (Alaska is 2.5 times as big as Texas, though Texans don't believe that..hehe). N.CA is like a different state than S.CA. I wish they'd split the state, but S.CA needs our water from up north (damn them anyway). I understand BJs father's concern easily. Several places in CA are quite pricey. Many in S.CA and the Bay Area here up north. I've seen many people sell (if they can) their houses in the Bay Area and buy a grand size place here in the Big Valley with the same money. The cost of living in MO would allow BJs dad to relax and do more for a lot less. Hope he does well there BJ."}, {"response": 10, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "Thanks Special K, yea unless you have been there you have no idea on the massiveness of Southern Califorina. It took me 3 hours (and that was splitting lanes) to go 70 miles from LA to Riverside, CA. on my last trip out there! I can cost from $1,200 to 2,000 a month for a \"one bedroom apartment\" in the LA/Orange county area. Dad was smart to get out and be able to enjoy what life he has left! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 11, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (03:13)", "body": "2.5 times? Wait a minute--I know Alaska is bigger (they'll probably hang me in Austin for sayin' so....), but are you sure of your figures?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (07:07)", "body": "Jamaica got, at one time or another, a lot of American sitcoms, usually when they were more than ten years old... For some reason or other, my brother lives in Orange County, CA."}, {"response": 13, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (17:11)", "body": "Yeah Jon, I'm absolutely sure of the figures (I used to live there from 79-81). Alaska is a vast land of many landscapes. Has anyone ever tried to figure out what the most western, northern, southern and eastern states are in the US. Rather than wait for a response..here it is. Northern: Alaska (obvious) Western: Alaska (the Aleutian chain stretches out way beyond Hawaii) Southern: Hawaii (farther south than Miami or Brownsville) Eastern: Alaska (the Aleutian chain stretches beyond the Intl Date Line into yesterday) Texans think everything is bigger there, but Alaska has this one down pat."}, {"response": 14, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Dec 16, 1997 (19:45)", "body": "Doesn't the International Date Line separate the Aleutian Islands from whatever the Russians call their side of the Aleutians? I know that the Date Line zigzags around Hawaii... The westernmost and easternmost points in the U.S. must be practically indistinguishable! I will continue to say that the easternmost state is Maine; the sun does set on the American empire (in winter, at least!)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (14:26)", "body": "Guess I'm going to have to pull the Atlas out tonight and double check that one Sam. I always thought the Aleutians were bought and paid for a long time ago and that US territory stretched beyond the IDL. You have to admit, buying Alaska for a measly $7,000,000 was a deal/steal. Heck, Michael Jordan makes more in endorsements per year than that. The Alaska deal rivals the Louisiana Purchase adding to what is now the lower 48 states. American Empire, eh?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "Remember the following points: 1. The Louisiana Purchase was for $3 million. 2. $7 million 120 years ago is NOT $7 million dollars now! The U.S. GDP then was probably only slightly more than Jordan's net worth now!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "Well, if I remember correctly, America now controls more territories than the U.K. does."}, {"response": 18, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "Kevin, you missed Saipan. For sure the furthest west US Territory."}, {"response": 19, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (23:51)", "body": "If you include territories, the sun *doesn't* set on the \"US Empire\". Saipan is atleast 15 hours west of here, meaning it would be daylight there when it's dark here."}, {"response": 20, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (07:08)", "body": "That's true, and as of last July, the sun has set on the British empire..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (13:58)", "body": "Hey - we dont celebrate the 4th of July - we just sit at home and SULK! :(?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (15:10)", "body": "\"Remember, remember The fifth of November, Gunpowder, treason and plot...\""}, {"response": 23, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "Yeah - the only man to enter parliment with honest intentions! Guy Fawkes - for those who have lost the thread - plotted to blow up the British houses of parliment - my memory is awfull for dates and history so I cannot remember which year - but I bet Sam knows!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (20:35)", "body": "That's true on the dollar worth in a way Sam. But overall, buying Alaska was one of the best moves we could have ever made..otherwise Russia would border Canada and be extremely close to the US (which wouldn't mean as much now with the Cold War over) and would have had dire consequences I don't want to think of. Same goes for the Louisiana Purchase. Bought half of the lower 48 for $3 million..not bad. Even if it related to $3 billion today it would be worth it. Jon, I wasn't including territories. I guess the US has more of those than the UK does now..though some of them want us out bad, like the Phillipines, Guam, etc. There was also a lot of talk about making Puerto Rico a state, which I don't think they or the US want. PR gets to many benefits not being a state..besides..it would screw up the layout of the US flag, hehe."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (22:23)", "body": "Erm... just thought you should know, Kevin; the Republic of the Phillipenes is a sovereign nation, not a territory of the United States (anymore). I forgot to check; does the IDL zig around the Aleutians the way it does around Hawaii? And no, Sheb, I don't know the year either."}, {"response": 26, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (22:26)", "body": "PR has three choices: statehood (representation, which means TAXES!!!), independence (they look at Jamaica and the Dominican Republic and say \"No, thank you!\") or their current territorial status (best of both worlds; U.S. citizenship without federal taxes!)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (10:01)", "body": "Looks like the Ozark trip will have to wait till 1999, just ain't gona have the vacation time. So it looks like we will be going up to Cody WY. during Labor Day weekend to hook up with a couple of chapters of M.O.R.A. members doing a \"camping thing\". Oh, M.O.R.A. is the Motorcycle Owners and Riders Association, just so you know. I belong to the local Southern Colorado chapter and am a charter member. Sam, you are one knowleadgeable guy for sure and you can get us so far off a topic so fast it's uncany! Get that bike back together or were gona have to start a FUND RASIER and buy you a nice used bike, ha ha! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 28, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (17:55)", "body": "Sam, I know the Philipines isn't a territory, but we still have some military bases there (but maybe not for long). You're also right on the money as why PR wouldn't want statehood or independence..why screw up a good thing. As far as the IDL, I need to look at a map. I've always thought that the further most part of the Aleution chain went beyond it..which extends probably 1000 miles or so West of Hawaii. BJ, sorry to hear your trip (which sounds great) will be delayed. I'm also partly to blame for Sam and I getting off subject..but what the heck."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (20:25)", "body": "Can a fund raiser buy time? Or dispel sloth? What I need to do is get off mi bum and START!! This is much easier said than done. I tried once, and l;ost momentum when I couldn't find the parts! By the time I found where they were I was too drained to get back to it!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (20:27)", "body": "You could just have well mentioned Japan. BTW, what's the situation on Okinawa nowadays?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "YSRRider", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (22:04)", "body": "Hello RM!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (23:06)", "body": "YSRRider, what's your problem? Leave your message & he'll get back to it!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (01:41)", "body": "Sam, he's from the moto-directory list, where you respond instantly, gona take him awhile to get the hang of this list's way of doing things, ha ha. Happy New Year, BJ Ondo Ramblinman"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (12:46)", "body": "Welcome YSRguy! motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 33, "subject": "98 Racing season", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (14:33)", "body": "Yeah, but you didn't mention why Anthony Gobert is moving. Drugs. I can't understand anyone being that stupid. You've got an awesome, high paying, fun job racing motorcycles where you KNOW they're going to test you, and you still do it. What? Flying around the track at 180 isn't a rush enough? Steve Crevier's move to a TL will be good for him--he's a good racer he just didn't know how to handle the horsepower monster Honda. Any news on whether or not Honda is going to race a VTR, and if so when? I think Miguel Duhamel could do really awesome if he had a bike with better power characteristics. But maybe he *likes* a bike that's about that close to tearing the rear wheel free at any moment."}, {"response": 2, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "I heard something about Erion Racing was going to use a VTR but don't think whatever the Honda main teams name is this year there gona use one. On Anthony G. there is still some doubt to weither he's gulity or not according to the things I have read. Sure wish the race at PPIR wasn't so long away, in Sept. this year. Hey, I saw that Forumla-USA racing was coming to PPIR around the middle of May, will keep you posted as to when the tickets are avaiable. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 3, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (21:42)", "body": "He had \"come close\" to failing the drug tests \"several\" times this season then finally out right failed one (according to Sport Rider). I don't know how you \"come close\", but it doesn't sound like there's much doubt. Awesome! I'd love to see a NASB race! Cooool."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (12:10)", "body": "Gobert's not gonna last, drugs or no, IMO. He can go to the edge real well, but I don't think his ability goes into controlling the edge a la DuHamel etc. motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 34, "subject": "Sportbikes", "response_count": 18, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (00:57)", "body": "I've been reading about the ST-2 and thinking about what Frank said. It's true--they're going more \"corporate\" (I guess that's a silly thing because they've been a corporation for a while, but you know what I mean....) The only saving grace(s) in this is that it appears that they've made the most competent sport touring (and most sporty) bike in history. Very cutting edge stuff in the Sport Touring arena, if a little behind the edge on the sportbike front. The other thing is that they've pledged to never make more than 200,000 bikes a year. If they stick to this it will keep them from turning into a Honda, making cruisers, and doing all those other marketing things. But you're right--\"this ain't your daddy's Ducati\", times are changing."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (12:16)", "body": "Yeah it's a gentlemen's, rather soft, stylin' express-cruiser. I think few will buy and few will modify, but they may give the Guzzi SP and LMIV crowd some pause. Reminds me of Formula Boats' 357 if anyone knows 'em: a totally competent offshore muscleboat but comfortable and not too nasty. How many others compete there? BMW's K12S, the ST Honda, the XX maybe? \"GT\" bikes, y'know?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "I have a different look at the same picture, I feel the ST-2 is \"way too much SPORTBIKE\" and not enough on the touring side for me. I really liked my old style K100RS but the new K12RS is also too sport orientated for my personal tastes. The ST and the Conncours are what I condsider \"real sport tourers\". The ST-2 need to be \"streached\" out a little on the wheel base and the handlebars need 3\" of rise and 2 inches back toward the rider for me. See, I don't consider that the new Super blackbird, is not a \"sport tourer just the same as a ZX11 is not a sport tourer\". These are large, heavy, fast sportbikes. Some call the R1100RS with hard bags a \"Sport Tourer\" but I consider the new R1100RT a sport tourer as the \"true tourer\" of the BMW line is the K1100LT model. I guess I prefer a bike that is 55% Touring and 45% sport. The 900SS with Givi bags wouldn't be far off the new ST-2 but it's not a true sport tourer. A sportbike with softbags is \"just that\", a sport bike forced to do touring duty. Happy Holidays, BJ"}, {"response": 4, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (09:34)", "body": "it's a gentlemen's, rather soft, stylin' express-cruiser Ah, but BJ's right--it's no BMW and it's not ST-1100. It's the most hard core sport tourer--which is all I'd expect from a Ducati Sport Tourer. They may have \"sold out\", but as soon as they raise (and pull back) the handle bars about 3 inches, put a 4' wide seat, increase weight by about 100 pounds, and lower the foot pegs, they've *really* sold out. :-) It's also got such trick amenities as the adjustable height muffler. Wanna go touring? Lower the mufflers and put the bags on. Wanna go scratching? Pull the bags and raise the mufflers. Very cool."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (10:09)", "body": "Yeah, very \"kewl\" IMO. I agree with both of you in general. I just always have seen a very definite line between the Japanese configuration and the Euro configuration as a Sport Tourer. The European will always give away comforts (like bar height,etc.) and go touring. The Japanese, who take a more considerate approach throughout, ink up the Honda ST, no adjustments required. Duc won't sell out, just sponge up as much as possible. I personally can't consider ZX's and XX's with the word \"sport\" anymore, jus too much bulk everywhere for my criteria. Once the novelty goes, they really should add \"GT\" to the emblems."}, {"response": 6, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (11:40)", "body": "I got a chance to ride an ST2 for about 50 miles on some twisty roads a while back and would have to say that it was very much at home there. A group of us took the dealers demo out for the day and played \"musical motorcycles\" - by days end, we had all ridden everyone elses bike. The bikes were R100S, R1100RS, R1100GS BMW's, Norton F1 rotary sportbike, a Buell (S1?) and my Duc M900. The concensus was that the ST2 was actually smoother than the RS at highway speeds but the RS would be better for multi-day ouring. Everyone was surprised at just how well it handles the twisties - I thought it felt a lot like a more comfortable (and heavier) Monster."}, {"response": 7, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (14:42)", "body": "You live in some kind of dream world, Steve. Ducati dealers saying \"here's the keys, see you tomorrow\"? Wow."}, {"response": 8, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (22:13)", "body": "The Ducati dealer here has got to be one of the best around, as well as being a great guy. On the day that we took the ST2 out, I had a mishap on my way to meet my friends. Short version - for whatever reason, the car ahead of me jams on his brakes, the road is wet, my tires are cold, I grab a handful of front brake and am on the ground. No real damage, just some scratches and the sidestand is broken off. I figure it's no big deal, we're going to the dealer's anyway, I'll just order the parts when we get here. It's a Saturday and he's pretty busy but he takes the time to look at the bike, then disappears in the back of the shop and comes out with a box of stuff, like handlebars and turnsignals, that he has taken off his Monster race bike and starts replacing the scratched and dented parts on mine. He doesn't have a sidestand, so he take one off a new bike on the floor. An hour later, my bike is 90% as good as new and ready to go, but when I ask him what I owe him, he says \"Your friends are waiting, you g ys go for your ride and we'll settle up later\". On another note, you guys in Colorado beware! I just confirmed to take the CLASS riding school in Denver on May 16 and I intend to look you guys up! The plan is to stay at the home of a guy I know from the Ducati mail list who lives in Monument. I'll keep you informed."}, {"response": 9, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (23:53)", "body": "Way cool Steve, Monument is between Jon and myself here in Colorado Springs. That is a great weekend as the Formula-USA motorcycles are gona be at PPIR just south of C.Springs on I-25. Let me know and we will hook up. Happy New Year, BJ Ondo"}, {"response": 10, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (02:21)", "body": "Yeah, let me know too. Monument ain't too far of a commute. Where is the school held?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (02:24)", "body": "Tell us more about CLASS. Is that a racing school? What bike do you use? Do they provide one? Lemme know--I didn't know they had one in Denver, maybe I'll sign up for one some day."}, {"response": 12, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (03:14)", "body": "To quote Reg Pridmore (founder of CLASS and former AMA champ racer) \"Our schools are NOT race schools, they are intended for street riders seeking more confidence\". CLASS (and the similiar California Superbike School) make the rounds of the US and Europe, running at local tracks, often just after a major race weekend. They are running it in Denver at the Second Creek Raceway, out by DIA. You ride your own bike with CLASS, with CSS, you can rent one of theirs for the day. I am also going to do the CSS leve s one and two in Phoenix this year (1998) on February 16th and 17th and possibly level three at Pikes Peak International Raceway in September. You can find more info on CLASS at http://www.classrides.com/ and the California Superbike School at http://www.superbikeschool.com/"}, {"response": 13, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (12:06)", "body": "Wow, those are cool sites. I just may look into one of the classes at Sears Point or Monterey. First up is the MSF advanced course which I've been procrastinating on. Thanks for the URLs Steve."}, {"response": 14, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "Yikes. It's a LONG commute to DIA from Monument. Probably about the same as from my house--1.25 hours or so."}, {"response": 15, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "What bike are you going to ride in the class? Do big cruisers participate too?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "smidgley", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (14:03)", "body": "I'll be riding the 944 Monster, the only street bike I currently own. I think that the only restriction as far as bikes go is that they need to be over 250cc. I may wind up staying somewhere closer to the track, at least the night before the class, now that I've looked at a map and see that Monument is quite a ways away. I really don't want to get up at 4 or 5 in the morning and then drive more than an hour to get there."}, {"response": 17, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (19:19)", "body": "The problem is the traffic. You'd have to take Monument to I-25 to C-470 West, all the way around to Golden, then back on I-70 towards DIA. Either that or drive straight through Denver on I-25 at the busiest place and the busiest hour. Perhaps you could take I-25 to I-225 and it wouldn't be too bad."}, {"response": 18, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 31, 1997 (19:20)", "body": "I'd offer to let you use my extra bedroom, but it would probably be only marginally (if any) closer. motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 35, "subject": "Another Pleasant Valley Sunday!", "response_count": 23, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "yves", "date": "Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (20:20)", "body": "And what's about the money whe pay on gaz, plates... to use roads, ALL roads!!!:o(((("}, {"response": 2, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (09:37)", "body": "Is it a public road? I thought it was a strictly private road, in which case it would be the community's right to decide (ooh, there goes Jon on the freedom kick again). Besides--screw the snobs--I don't want to live there anyway! Monkies literary referendces, Brad? *Very* un Harley like! :-)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (10:18)", "body": "I saw the same article Brad. I'm also corresponding with the NYC-Moto group regarding a proposed ban for motorcycles in a certain area of lower Manhattan. Seems the \"Community Board\"-those who have expensive lofts, hi-paying jobs, and no clue- want to ban bikes because of noise & overall bad-image looks in their area. No loud car horns or obnoxious cage habits will be affected, just 2-wheelers. An oddball irony (?) is that the ban-line is drawn short of the Angels' HQ in the area. Don't want to mess with those guys\" maybe? It's amazing how the clueless can have such b---s if you let 'em run..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (10:49)", "body": "If it's a private road, perhaps. But often times these developments have publically financed and maintained roads. Of course, there is also the question of whether or not a homeowner's association has the ultimate authority to ban an individual's personal right to operate a vehicle which is duly licensed by the state. CA obviously thinks they do. The AMA will push legislation to strip that authority. I hope they're successful. Monkies literary referendces, Brad? When in Rome! hehe"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "Frank, is the AMA involved in your issue? If not, they should be. Sounds like the situation in Chicago. Bad precedent! Starts in one place and spreads likea cancer. I get knocked down, but I get up again...you're never going to keep me down! Chumbawamba (Is that more up to date for ya Jon? hehe)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (11:31)", "body": "The issue is: Whose road is it? If it's a public road, then all licensed vehicles should have access to it. If it's a private road, and the people living there have agreed with the owners of the property to this, then it's up to them. However, another question: Do the people in this community own their own houses (or at least do the banks own their houses until 30 yrs. from now)? If they do, and the home owner suddenly decides to buy a bike, who are the gatekeepers to prevent him from keeping it there. For all Jamaica's imperfections of government, that sort of thing can't happen here. If I come in to see Mr. X, and Mr. X is willing to see me, then I could even be in a donkey cart and the gateman would have to let me in. A so Jamaica go!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (11:39)", "body": "It's just sad, even in these days of the \"Love Ride\" and mega-sized Toy Runs, we as motorcyclist's just can't get a break from a \"1960's bad image\". The largest part of rider's are just regular people and should be able to live where we can afford, not being put out due to our choosen lifestyle. I wish you luck Brad, these fights can go on forever! It's just a shame, we might as well \"live the way we want\", as the General Public will never understand or except us on our terms. I have always felt that someday it will come down to \"Us vrs. Them\" and we probably will loose due to shear numbers against us. Maybe the best we can do is just \"choose not to support\" those area's that don't want us but it also never hurt's to put up a fight as long as you can. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (12:04)", "body": "The AMA has been informed more as a cover-the-bases ploy than anything Brad. The issue is with the mayor and the yuppies vs. the riders. It'll be interesting to see if the AMA will get involved in a local, city political stew. Right now it's a perfect example of the \"gentrification\" of the area that caused many who lived in the area to move because of inflation and \"plasticizing\" of the neighborhood. Myself and quite a few others became victims of this wave in the early 80's."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Shane", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (14:19)", "body": "The AMA has been working on the Canyon Lake thing for a couple of year now. Actually the news above COULD be good news. By not reviewing the case the road has been paved to put this into the Federal Courts (Slow but more broad reaching in terms of decisions). In the meantime let's all go to Canyon Lake, park our bikes at the front like they ask and have a Huge BBQ and BEER BLAST. We could call it \"The Party that will Last Till You Change Your Minds\"... We could make it real Picket Line like, with angry crowds and everything... (Yes, I can be somewhat of a militant!) Forgive me here but them folks is ASSHOLES."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (17:08)", "body": "COUNT ME IN! More shrimp for the barbee? hehe"}, {"response": 11, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "I'd say \"Me too!\", but there's no way for me to get there... Raise the Jamaican & Ethiopian flags at the site for me, O.K.?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "A large showing of bikes at the gate is a great idea. Though it'd have to be peaceful. We get rowdy at all and they'll scream \"See..I told ya they were animals!\" The only way to get any attention is in big numbers and show em we're regular folk. Get enough residents on our side would help, though other residents may try to have em evicted..ahh, Federal Court again. Sounds like a good civil rights injustice. If I could make it there Sam, I'll bring the flags..proud to."}, {"response": 13, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (19:42)", "body": "Gather 'round and sing \"The Times They Are A' Changin'\" and \"Chant Down Babylon\" by the American and Jamaican Bobs respectively!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (14:46)", "body": "Sounds good, Shane. And when they open the road, I say every biker within 100 miles should show up with their bikes (take the mufflers off, it's a special occasion) and go for a ride. Chumbawamba Well, they're a better example of the \"new wave alternative to music\", but (as bad as they were, and as corporately synthesized as they were), I'd probably prefer the Monkies. But atleast Chumbawamba is a real band!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (14:47)", "body": "Speaking o' Bob (Dylan, that is), you need to get his new album, Sam. It's a blues album and it's great--Bob finally found a style of music his voice is suited for."}, {"response": 16, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (15:40)", "body": "Instrumental?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (18:36)", "body": "Funny. Very funny."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Jan  1, 1998 (20:27)", "body": "Thank you. I thought so too!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "leroy", "date": "Sat, Jan  3, 1998 (06:28)", "body": "Here in British Columbia every autumn we have a Toy Run in the Vancouver area that has around 8 to 9 thousand bikes. We also have the B.C.C.O.M. (BC Coalition of Motorcyclists), a lobbying organization for All motorcyclists concerns (off road riders, Loud pipe hassles with the law, etc). Well, it appears that \"one of the larger auto associations\" (can you say BCAA {AAA} boys and girls). They were complaining that the \"Bikers\" get to go on the ferry boats first, even though the cars have been waiting for a es. The provincial gov't was going to make it so the bikes would have to get in line with the cars but the BCCOM got hold of this and told the government if they attempted this, there would be a \"Toy RTun' at the ferry terminal and if the bikes had to line up with the cars, they would expect to take up the same amount of room as a car. You can imagine what 4000 bikes would do to a line up for a ferry that can hold around 400 cars. Needless to say, the motorcycles still go to the head of the line. I don't now too much about the AMA but I believe here in BC that anyone that rides, should belong to the BCCOM. The more members, the stronger the voice. The only thing politicians think about is \"What's in it for me/\" and if there are 10,000 biker votes, the voice isn't heard as loudly as 1,000,000 biker votes. LeRoy Pattison Non Carborundum Illegitimii! (Don't Let The Bastards Grind You Down!) '92 Goldwing SE (teal) 211,000+ on the odometer Cascade Classic Bun Burner 1500"}, {"response": 20, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Jan  3, 1998 (10:16)", "body": "LeRoy, the AMA is kinda like that but on a more \"national level\" scale. The local freedom fighter's are really groups like \"ABATE\", they mainly work in \"State area's\" so I think your group works like our ABATE groups. Your right on the votes my friend, the more we orgainze to support \"each riders rights, no matter what brand or style of bike they choose to ride, the better off it will be for all of us! Wow, a multi-thosand rider toy run, how awsome! We have a local one run thru HOG that gets around 800 every year. Hopefully one day it will hit the \"thousand\" mark, that would be excellent. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 21, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sat, Jan  3, 1998 (12:29)", "body": "Hitting the nail on the head here guys. Organize ALL makes, brands, types of riding is what is going to add legitimacy to the various political battles we fight. AMA does this at the National level, however, most state level organizations get mired down in the \"Clique\" and prevent forward progress. Every organization that I have ever seen, or read anything about bitches about not having enough membership while overlooking the field of Dirt Bikers, or Sport Bike Organizations that exist right under thei noses. This is usually because looking in these directions means supporting someone (or something) that they don't understand. The truly sad part is that these affiliations could make the entire motorcycling experience more enjoyable, Imagine, if you will, a toy run that centered around a 3 day Moto-Cross, Enduro, or Hill Climb (there used to be an event like this in Nebraska, BIG FUN, ride out, drink beer, talk bikes and watch the U-Hoos try to climb that hill. The event was discontinued when the Street Folks started getting nasty with the Hill Climb Organizors over sponsorship and marketing) Or a Rally that was cunducted at th club level that included an invite to the \"Crotch Rockets\" to come show there stuff at the local track. I know that the AMA sanctions these events but they are few and far between... More open-mindedness at the state, club, indiviual level could make these events more common place and locally available. Why can't we all just get along??"}, {"response": 22, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Jan  4, 1998 (00:50)", "body": "Shane, I think it is a way to \"blame\" all the problems on the \"other guy\"! You hear it all the time, The Touring riders talk crap about the Bikers and the Crotch-Rocket Riders, it's there fault. The Bikers say our image is shit becuause of the Crotch-Rocket riders. Crotch-Rocket riders, just thumb there nose's up and don't associate with the Touring Riders and none of us road riders really give much notice when the dirt riders are losing places to ride more and more each day!! Will we ever become 1-TEAM against the common FOE. I really tried to bond with the local ABATE chapter but they really make me feel uncomfortable becuase I wear a helmet and you can tell they feel, I dont' \"really support\" their \"main cause\"! Shane, don't think I will see us \"come together\" in my lifetime! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 23, "author": "BigDog", "date": "Sun, Feb 15, 1998 (20:04)", "body": "Would anyone be interested in setting up a community next to Canyon Lake that would only allow motorcycles in? Just a thought.....he,he. Seriously, me thinks there will be no way to convince these people that the majority of riders are law abiding contributors to society. The only way to fight this is in the courts. I encourage all readers to join the AMA and help support their efforts. Thanks. motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 36, "subject": "Invitation to", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (00:27)", "body": "Pat, I am asking for more info. Even though that same weekend has the Bean Blossum Boogie and the ABATE of WI State Party--its always nice to leave the options open. How far from Milwaukee are the Concord campgrounds? Where exactly is the location? A good friend of mine occasionally takes his Ariels to these goings on. Hoop motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 37, "subject": "Ice Racing", "response_count": 5, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Feb  2, 1998 (22:05)", "body": "Well, tell us all about it, Pat. The people who do it must be nuts."}, {"response": 2, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Feb  2, 1998 (22:06)", "body": "Speaking 'o which, the Elephant Ride is on the 15th of February. It starts at Grant Colorado (about 10 minutes from my house) and (hopefully) goes over Guanella Pass on motorcycles."}, {"response": 3, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Feb  2, 1998 (22:06)", "body": "Speaking 'o which, the Elephant Ride is on the 15th of February. It starts at Grant Colorado (about 10 minutes from my house) and (hopefully) goes over Guanella Pass on motorcycles."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Marlboro", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (23:02)", "body": "Actually it's a blast. Being nuts is half the fun. It's actually less dangerous than riding on pavement since you slide on ice and don't bounce. It's hard to discribe other than it's a real rush and you have to try it at least once. You dress like na-nuke of the north so you have even more padding on you than the street and dirt racers have. Don't they have anything like Ice Racing in the rockies? You certainly get enough snow & Ice there."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Feb  7, 1998 (10:51)", "body": "The Learning Channel presented a cycle show the other night, and while most of it was worthless, they devoted several minutes to HD-ice-oval racing, with Larry Pegram interviewed as to how \"relaxing\" it is! Geez! Just the pictured bikes' setups looked menacing. And that oval was *small*! motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 38, "subject": "Ice Racing - British Biker Cooperative", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 39, "subject": "Flash Gordon, MD - motorcycle reviewer", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May  4, 2001 (00:19)", "body": "Flash's web page is http://www.docflash.com The book is Blood, Sweat and Gears. And City Bike is at http://www.best.com/~citybike/ A teaser from Flash's BMW review: I went to Austin, Texas, for two reasons: BMWs and BBQ. I found different two schools of Texas BBQ, and two different BMW's. One school says the best BBQ (like that at Kreuz's market in Lockhart, Texas) is meat; just meat; and nothing but meat (well, ok, maybe a slice or so of white bread). It's sliced from a brisket of beef that's been slowly smoking for 12 hours or more, and served on a couple of pieces of butchers' paper. It's *basic* BBQ, but the process behind it has been refined for many years. The BMW R1150R Roadster reminds me of Kreuz's BBQ. . . . motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 4, "subject": "My current bike is a ____________.", "response_count": 204, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Oct 10, 1997 (10:50)", "body": "'86 Ducati Pantah 650SS. I really like this bike though many feel it's outdated. The only limitation is true long distance riding, which I want to do more of, but it runs with all the best just fine."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Oct 10, 1997 (15:30)", "body": "1984 Honda Goldwing GL1200 Standard.... Never would have thought I would own one... Not sure I would part with this one though...."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Oct 11, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "I'll bet it's *decked out* isn't it Shane?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "TRA", "date": "Sun, Oct 12, 1997 (03:46)", "body": "I have a 1986 Venture Royale that I do most of my riding on.This is my second one and if they were still making them there would be no problem in answering the \"next bike\" question.I would buy a new one in a heart beat.This one is the Royale version with cruise control cb radio,stereo.It has the drivers back rest added as well as floor boards,driving lights,trunk rack,loud horns,chrome vents and the cushon hand grips and a trailer hitch.I never thought that I would want to pull a trailer and now I don't see how I ever got along with out one."}, {"response": 5, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Oct 12, 1997 (04:23)", "body": "Hey Paul, I got your brother in a 96 Royal Star..love that V4. I've put 23k miles on it in 17 months. Great long distance riding. Those Ventures sure handle good with great pep. Stock, they can take an RS, which mine isn't anymore. My buddy has an 86 Venture that's fun to ride. One of these days I just might add that trailer hitch and head to Sturgis."}, {"response": 6, "author": "TRA", "date": "Sun, Oct 12, 1997 (21:57)", "body": "Hi \"K\" .That Star of yours is a beaut.Can't wait to see it with the chrome front end.There is a guy here in Provo with a red and white one that he put the chrome on last spring.I could not believe the difference it made.Those emulatoprs should perk up the handling too."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Shane", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (11:27)", "body": "Actually Terry, it is far from *Decked Out*. In fact it is VERY PLAIN!!.. No sidebags, 83 Fairing, 85 Trunk, Pretty lean. The only decking really is cosmetic, I recently took all the laquer off of the Valve Covers and Timing belt covers and polished them. Looks great! Would do away with the Trunk but wife needs a place to lean too, so it stays for now. My replace Fairing with a Windshield if the Valkerie parts become a bit mor affordable... Shane"}, {"response": 8, "author": "Alfor", "date": "Thu, Oct 16, 1997 (12:57)", "body": "See \"First Bike\" for my current bike."}, {"response": 9, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Oct 19, 1997 (13:42)", "body": "I went on my first extended ride in 3 months yesterday (Saturday). The bike was giving me trouble and wouldn't start, so I took the tank off to see if the gas tank's hoses were all hooked up right. They were, so I put it back together and it started first try. Go figure. Anyway, I knew my back tire was pretty bad, but I needed to do an Italian tuneup, so I started off towards Conifer for lunch. It was sputtering and moaning and groaning and refusing to reve past 4000 rpms under load (it would rev all day in neutral). Obviously starving. I stopped and had some pizza, got back on the bike, it started up and ran pretty dang well (I can't say perfectly because there's still an occasional miss, but it's almost unnoticeable). I took a ride down a new road I've never been on called Shadow Mountain Road then back up to Pleasant Park Road through Deer Creek Canyon. This would be the supreme ride except that when the road gets really interesting it gets really gravelly. That's a big problem in Colorado. A--Some of the best roads in Colorado are unpaved and intersect with the paved ones--leaving sand all over the road near the intersections. B--Alot of people cut the really sharp corners short, kicking up gravel on the road where you need your traction most. C--In the corners after it rains gravel slides down the hill onto the road. And only in the corners. Anyway, I went down to Faye Meyers to drool on the Triumphs. They ignored me--but that's o.k. I'm going back in three or four months with four or five thousand dollars in my pocket--they'll talk to me then. After that I stopped by Glenn Carpenters' to visit. He's sold his BMW and now has his venerable Suzuki 850, an old Kawi KZ650 that runs good and a cherry (near perfect) '81 CB750. Sweet bike. It was then that he pointed out that my tire was worn down to the cord. Bad deal. I carefully made my way the 30 or so miles home and have parked the bike. See, the weather is stunning right now but by the time I have enough money to replace the tire (atleast a couple of weeks) it'll be too late to ride. Frustrating as hell. Oh, and my current bike is a Ninja 600R (I never answered this original topic.) Jon Lind -=- Jon@i70.net Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect.--Stephen Wright"}, {"response": 10, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (10:42)", "body": "Motorbike or no, I'd have to agree with you on the Colorado gravel deal. Weather turns \"crappy\" today, maybe that'll give you an opportunity to be back together before the next Indian Summer hits (I'm counting on one too!) The Deer Creek Canyon you mentioned... the one that extends nearly to C-470, and comes out just east of the foothills?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (10:52)", "body": "Yep, that's the Deer Creek Canyon, Stacey. Ends up down around Ken Caryl. Nice, nice area. I wish I could afford a house there, but gee, I left my $1,000,000 in my other pants. Do you really think we'll have another Indian summer? That'd be awesome. Who knows, maybe the firm will get around to fulfilling my invoice and I'll get paid in the next couple of days. Aaah. Dang, I need too many toys. Next toy is going to be a nice mountain bike. I think I'll save my money and spend about a grand next summer and get a nice one."}, {"response": 12, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "Whether's not bad at all up here at 8500 feet, but it's cool, no doubt."}, {"response": 13, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (11:14)", "body": "Let me know when you get a mountain bike! I loving showing people new trails! I went looking for a road bike Saturday and discovered the process will be long and labored, regardless of the price tag. The obstacle is my size. While I am not strikingly short (in my opinion), I am apparently not mainstream cyclist build. At this point the only road bike that came close as far as standover and top tube length was a Terry-type with a 24 in front wheel. The stem was a bit too short though so, regardless, it loo s like I will have to get a custom bike. Specialized, Gary Fisher, I even tried a LeMond! Just wonky size requirements!C'est la vie!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (12:45)", "body": "I guess you don't want one of those \"ladies'\" bikes with the tube that attaches to the seat tube way down at the bottom?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (13:15)", "body": "My sister has one of those (which she won't ride), but the seat heaght is a bit too tall for her, even at minimum height, and she's not all that short."}, {"response": 16, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (13:23)", "body": "Heck no! The bike will be purely for pleasure but my pleasure includes stupid human tricks like triathlons and long charity rides. I want something fast and something I can sit on for HOURS and DAYS at a time. One of my dreams is to take a \"credit card to\u001b[Bur\" across to California on the bike. Just me and the bike, stopping to eat when I'm hungry, to sleep when I'm sleepy. Stopping wherever I want for however long and getting closer to my owns thoughts. I've entertained thoughts of racing but I prefer th MTB when it comes to dangerous passtimes."}, {"response": 17, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (13:58)", "body": "\"Dangerous past times\". A good expression. And what fun is life without a few dangerous past times?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (14:03)", "body": "The \"credit card tour\" sounds nice, but it would be you, your thoughts, a semi or two, and about a billion RVs and various other tourists. California is a beautiful place, but it's too dang crowded. I guess just about every place is these days."}, {"response": 19, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Oct 21, 1997 (11:49)", "body": "Stop tainting my dream!!!!!!!!! Yea, exhaust and bike-hater drivers would eliminate some of the fun."}, {"response": 20, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Oct 21, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "Sorry, don't mean to taint your dreams. Have you ever been to California? It is gorgeous. Just make your credit card tour last from Monday - Thursday and you'll be o.k. We went out there for a spring break a few years back. We drove up the Pacific Coast Highway on a Tuesday, I think, from LA to San Francisco. Absolutely gorgeous, and the traffic was tolerable."}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (02:22)", "body": "California is a great place for travelin' all over. Try cutting over to the coast from IH5 by way of Coleman Valley road through Occidental sometime (or one of the similar roads in Sonoma County), and time it so you come over the last ridge to the ocean right around sunset. Talk about a 7th bardo heaven paradise. I long to do that again someday."}, {"response": 22, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "Monday thru Thursday is a bit short for a muscle-powered road bike! I've been to San Francisco and did the city on a bike (again muscle power) STEEP neighborhood streets! I spent a 6 hour layover in LAX -- not a really pleasant intro to California. I did the Napa Valley on a bicycle too -- plenty of wine mixes better with backroads!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (21:05)", "body": "Napa is the next valley over from the area that I was just describing. The ridges along the ocean in Sonoma and Mendocino counties are breathtaking, as they are in the Big Sur area to the South. This would have to be on the list of ideal places to go bicycling or motorcycling."}, {"response": 24, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (21:06)", "body": "Aaaah. Napa Valley. Wine and bikes (no matter what kind o' power) are a bad combo. Too bad, cuz a bicycle or motorcycle trip sampling the wineries would be awesome. I've got an uncle who lives an hour north of San Francisco--he's used to great wines costing no more than $2 per bottle. Aaaah."}, {"response": 25, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (05:25)", "body": "When we do France, we tend to do alternate days riding and Wine. and fill the panniers up to take home! HIC!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (09:32)", "body": "I don't know how effective this practice is, but I'd like your opinion: For riding through wine country (acadamic for me; Jamaica doesn't have any), find a place to park the bike for two hours. Use the first hour to drink one (and only one) glass of wine. Use the second hour for your liver to metabolise the wine. During these two hours, walk around, take photos, play whatever music you brought (instruments or recorded music) and just generallly breathe in the air. Unless you were very tired to begin with, I think that by the end of the two hours you should be ready to go again, especially if you took a nap during the second hour. I've never actually done this. Is it acceptable?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (11:05)", "body": "Denpending on how much alcohol your body is accustomed to, yes, that would be quite the acceptable riding/drinking combo. On our trip, we rode to a winery sampled (samples are very partial glasses and you can have a few) explored the winery, wandered around outside and got back on the bike-- bottles in the panniers! When you are exercising, your body metabolizes a bit faster. At Mumm's we decided the effects had begun to be cummulative and rested on their patio, overlooking the vines and snacking on sesam crackers. If you take a whole day and only attmpt 4 or 5 wineries with long jaunts in between, I think you can do it responsibly."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (12:05)", "body": "4 or 5 wineries! Damn better be responsible! The nearest winery here is a favorite stop for dresser touring clubs; they sample about 6 or 7 plastic shot-glasses of the product and head out, feeling real fine. is sort of a paradoxical situation--enjoying the wines & scenery without falling off your ride."}, {"response": 29, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (12:12)", "body": "Yes, Sam, that would be acceptable, but you wouldn't get very far in a day. I'd say 3 wineries max if it was two hours at the winery and 1 hour between. Like I said, motorcycling and fine wines--two great things in life but they have to be kept mostly seperate. But like Stacey and Shebee said--load up the paniers and take 'em home!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (12:20)", "body": "Good idea!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (14:20)", "body": "After the paniers were full, we had it MAILED home."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Fri, Oct 24, 1997 (12:48)", "body": "YES! I was in Ireland a couple of years ago, touring on the Tiger, and spotted a Bodhran (the classic Irish Drum) that I had to have, we were staggering from pub to pub at the time, It is about 2 1/2 ft diameter but I \"knew\" i had space for it as well as everything else. When I got it back to the site I realised that I would have had problems getting it back on its own without all the camping gear etc, so I ended up mailing it home!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Oct 24, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "Hmm... I am going home in about two weeks, and I bought a lot of junk in M\ufffdxico! Maybe I'll mail some of it home! Thanks for the tip!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Shane", "date": "Fri, Oct 24, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "I once assisted a friend on mine in strapping a tree to her bike.... We were out riding, and there was a road side stand selling 3 gallon planters of Pin Oaks, that were about 3 to 4 feet tall... She just had to have on so we got it strapped on the back of her bike for the 30 minute remainder of the ride back to her place.... Looked pretty funny, but we got it there in one piece.... Shane"}, {"response": 35, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Oct 24, 1997 (15:49)", "body": "THAT'S HYSTERICAL!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "yves", "date": "Sat, Oct 25, 1997 (04:14)", "body": "Good idea to hide a CB antenna Yves"}, {"response": 37, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (01:51)", "body": "Whoa, been gone a good week and everybody's going to Napa. Was just there a couple of weeks ago for a charity ride..1000+ bikes in a couple of mile long train riding thru the valley. Didn't get time for wine though..maybe next time (dang). I did just ride down to Bodega Bay last Friday and then up the coast hwy to Ft.Bragg on Saturday. On Sunday we rode thru a nice coastal mountain grove of big redwoods (hwy 20) and cruised the north side of Clear Lake back into the Big Valley. Did drink some Merlot one n ght and some Sauvignon Blanc the next during dinner (CA of course). Absolutely perfect weather..dry and 70s or so mid day. Best riding weather of the year is in October."}, {"response": 38, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (02:35)", "body": "Did you see any birds in Bodega Bay?"}, {"response": 39, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (09:50)", "body": "What was the charity ride?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "kgeorge", "date": "Sun, Nov  2, 1997 (23:08)", "body": "No birds ..lot's of stars at night though. Stacy..it wasn't a charity ride unless it was charity to my brain to get away from it all for two days."}, {"response": 41, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov  3, 1997 (12:38)", "body": "That surely counts!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Kasey", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "Well, to answer terry's original question, my current bike is an '84 Venture Royale. I feel the same as Paul does about the line and really don't know what I would replace it with. I don't think I'll have to worry about it for awhile, this bike is in good mechanical condition. I live in Abbotsford, BC about an hour S. of Vancouver in the Fraser Valley. Great mountain scenery, lots of windy roads to ride. Kathryn"}, {"response": 43, "author": "Kasey", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (12:50)", "body": "Windy or windey, either one applies. Kathryn"}, {"response": 44, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (12:57)", "body": "Wow, what a great place to live. I've heard about that area."}, {"response": 45, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (12:58)", "body": "Current ride--Harley Davidson Road King. Tons of fun!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (21:29)", "body": "Have two at the moment...a 1981 Harley FLT, which isn't quite what it seems to be (lots of treats and modifications) and a 1982 Gold Wing which I stole for a thousand dollars in June. Ed"}, {"response": 47, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (23:34)", "body": "So shouldn't the guy who paid you the thousand to steal it have the bike? Or are you hanging on to it because the guy won't pay you? :-]"}, {"response": 48, "author": "Ed", "date": "Tue, Nov 11, 1997 (08:36)", "body": "No Sam, I was speaking sort of figuratively. The going price for an '82 GW here in Tidewater was anywhere from 2K to 3K. I rode this one before I made the decision to buy it...good and tight, engine clean, upholstery not torn up, no laydown damage, up to date safety inspection, good rubber, no oil pools, a little bit of head rust on some screws, no cracks in rubber boots, intakes, anyplace that suggested the previous owners had ignored. I made an offer of a thousand cash and they took it. Since I bough it in June, I have put over 6 thousand miles on it. Only thing I am going to do is replace the front wheel bearings and seals when I put a new tire on. All my acquaintances that know motorcycles (I mean really know!) can't believe I got the deal I did. Ed"}, {"response": 49, "author": "pc006", "date": "Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (11:15)", "body": "Back to the original question: My current bike is a '96 FXSTS Springer Softail Planning to do a cam and new heads this winter."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (11:42)", "body": "Great to see you Dave (here & in the pic)! Lookin' \"bad\"! I think the Springer is the 2nd nicest factory Harley, after the RoadKing. Which cam/heads are you going for? Is that to outrun the Man at Nathan's? (o;{"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Shane", "date": "Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (14:02)", "body": "Hey Dave, great to see you and the Springer...Nice bike."}, {"response": 52, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (14:56)", "body": "Hey, I like that name. Springer. Since I'm such a spingeur."}, {"response": 53, "author": "Smiling", "date": "Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "'82 Yamaha Virago 920. I bought it cheap. It is black, hardly any chrome, it has been dropped and has a big dent in the tank, so what I am saying is she is pretty beastly looking. But she runs great and she is my ticket to long deserted stretches of road through the sparsely populated and achingly beautiful Texas hill country. Karl"}, {"response": 54, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (13:03)", "body": "Sounds good to *me*!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (13:37)", "body": "Man, this area is dead. What happened to everyone?"}, {"response": 56, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "Jon, they're all out riding because there's no snow in Texas! Or Jamacia!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (15:16)", "body": "Yeah, but certain Jamaicans I know don't even have a bike yet! (Grin)"}, {"response": 58, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (22:13)", "body": "I have a bike, it just doesn't work (yet)..."}, {"response": 59, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (23:27)", "body": "Yeah, that's o.k. It's very obvious that you're a smart guy--you'll figure it out soon enough."}, {"response": 60, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (11:31)", "body": "S'ok Sam, my bike doesn't have an engine!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "Dave, love the pic and glad to see you're aboard. Still planning to come up your way one of these days and catch on with Frank too. What heads and cam are you going with? I'm just about to install the Stage 2 EFI kit on the toadster. The SE3 cam that comes with it is basically an EV27 grind with a bit more lift. Should be a nice boost (80+ ft.lbs. torque and hp). The Stage 3 EFI chip allows head work and higher compression pistons (up to 10:1). Who knows what the future may hold! Let your wallet fall back and your bike spring forward!"}, {"response": 62, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (14:38)", "body": "Who knows what the future may hold! A Harley with no power below 6000 RPMs? That's a good question--often with performance mods for a Japanese bike you push all your power up top. Is this a problem with Harley performance mods?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (14:41)", "body": "Speaking o' which, I saw these guys on TV put a turbo on their bikes. It was a pretty simple (I'd say one Saturday) project with all the hardware included--including a nifty looking exhaust header to run the exhaust to the turbo. It looked nice. The only really noticeable part was the air intake that comes from the turbo unit (which is mounted low and forward on the engine) and it looked really cool anyway. Sharp setup. Supposedly adds big time power across the range. You don't have to recam, but the guys I saw did. They said their hogs were up to around 100 horses and almost that much torque. Very, very cool--my kind of mod."}, {"response": 64, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (14:53)", "body": "I seem to see that you can pretty well pick your place with the HD motor, Lo, middle, or high range, or a reasonable power increase across all 3, if you're patient and pick the right parts. With the UJMs, it's frequently at the top as mentioned. You likely saw the Aerocharger setup Jon. I think it's the best-engineered kit out there. Why doesn't Tim Allen have a Harley??"}, {"response": 65, "author": "pc006", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (16:57)", "body": "Brad, I'm considering an EV27 with Brancher heads. Should bring the compression up to about 9.5:1 with no piston work. Should be a good combination with the type of riding that I do. The EV27 will give you a range from about 1700 rpm to 5000 rpm...nice range. The heads are bolt on with no other mods. Should bring the old Springer close to 85 hp. Jon, I believe that in the latest issue of Hot Bike magazine the did a step by step install of the AeroCharger. Alot of work, not just bolt on."}, {"response": 66, "author": "pc006", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (16:59)", "body": "Frank, Tim Allen doesn't have a Harley but he did put a Harley motor on a riding lawn mower once."}, {"response": 67, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (17:01)", "body": "To get to the other side, Frank? ;-) Sounds like a joke. He did ride a Harley on one episode--I think into the crowd. Can't remember, I saw it a while back."}, {"response": 68, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (18:12)", "body": "Yeah the mower episode was a hoot! Big twin stickin' up out of the mower. Man Dave those Branch heads are bux! I respect your love for the motor!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "Afor", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "I now have two bikes with no motor (not including the Twinstar which has a motor, but it's open!). I just got my Mexican bicycle cleared through customs. I will NEVER bring home anything like that again! SELL! SELL! SELL! Customs is HORRIBLE!! And it's not the people, it's the system (or lack thereof!) I felt sorry for the customs officers, but that's probably because I brought lunch; if I didnt, I probably would have been very angry with them! Next project...Rebuild Matilda (my name for the TwinStar, 'coz we plan to go waltzin'!)"}, {"response": 70, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (21:47)", "body": "Customs in Mexico is easy if you've got the bucks. \"Here officer, does that clear things up?\""}, {"response": 71, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (08:54)", "body": "How true!"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (10:06)", "body": "Jon, Big Twin power is concentrated in low and mid range, where 99% of the riders spend 99% of their time. Torque is the name of the game. HP is primarily a high-end performance gain--torque is power where it counts. Dave, the Branch heads and the EV27 sound like a real nice combo. My buddy runs the EV27 on his Softail--stock heads--and the performance boost was very noticable, especially from 3,000 rpm up. I think the SE3 will give me essentially the same profile, although Kip Woodring (Thunder Press Motorhead) likes the SE3 better--slightly more lift, which produces slightly flatter and higher torque and hp curves. Check it out with your shop. BTW, the SE3 is made for Harley by Andrews. Aren't you also running a single-fire ignition Dave? Another good investment IMHO. Fortunately, the EFI bikes come stock with a single-fire. As far as the Aerocharger system goes, it is nice, but it costs a fortune--over $3,500 + I believe. I watched a mechanic put one on a Softail and there is a lot more to it than bolting it on--Dave is right. Lots of adjusting and riding and adjusting--lots of shop time $$. There are other ways to get to 100 + hp too, but I'm not convinced any of them are really worth it. A nice, flat torque curve in the 80's with similar hp will give you a roll-on MONSTER without the monster investment or the maintenan e headaches--like regularly replacing rocker-box and base gaskets. You can pay me now, and you can pay me later!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "Got to agree with you and Dave, Brad; 80hp is plenty unless all you do is bench-race at the bars. I've turned into a conversation-stopper at times by stating that even though I've been riding on 100 horses, I can only say I've used/felt 75-80 in some real road-dices. Am I correct in assuming that most hog riders use the \"punch\" for passing in traffic and scooting beyond 18-wheelers?? That seems realistic to me. High-end b---s are rarely used off the track, and then not long enough to justify the usual exp nse of reliability, at least outside of Germany! My problem (other than $ limits) is that when you *know* the motor is good for 50% more than stock, you want it. See \"Moto Guzzis\"!"}, {"response": 74, "author": "pc006", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (10:59)", "body": "Brad, Yes as a matter of fact I'm currently running a dyna 2000 single fire ignition and a S$S super E carb. With the head work and the cam it should run real good but still be a dependable engine for the long distance trips that I enjoy taking. BTW a friend of mine has a '97 Road King (Fuel Injection) and went with the Stage II kit and claims he saw a HUGE difference."}, {"response": 75, "author": "pc006", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "Frank, Yeah getting up above 85hp becomes incredibly expensive on a Harley. You need to stroke the motor, etc., etc. No longer dependable either. The turbo deal, from everything that I've read and heard about it, you should really put a nice set of forged pistons in it to make it more reliable. That'll put you up around $5k for the whole deal. Not worth it for another 15 hp or so in my book. The cam alone will give you the passing power that you need to get by those 18 wheelers, but with the heads it'll give you a bigger smile on your face when you go by."}, {"response": 76, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (12:15)", "body": "Biggest reasons I liked the Aero setup really came from talking to the principal at the NY show and seeing the work they put in the unit. But there sure are a lot of less costly ways to go."}, {"response": 77, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (15:26)", "body": "What's the advantage of single fire?"}, {"response": 78, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (16:33)", "body": "Dave, check this out. A mechanic friend said he installed the Stage 2 kit on a full dresser last week. When he test rode it, he said the difference from 3,000 rpms on was unreal. In fact, he said on his shift into fourth gear, he easily pulled the front tire up--on an Ultra! Well, mine is scheduled for installation on December 8. Bring on the game! This could be a great stage in the life of my King!"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Ed", "date": "Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (20:07)", "body": "Jon, the stock Harleys with electronic ignition had a single coil and a module that fired both cylinders at the same time, hence a \"wasted\" spark. The concept is a little tough to explain without a few beers, but anyhow, it worked reasonably well, provided that you left the cam alone. When us'ns started changing cams which affected the way fuel and air mixtures were moved around in the cylinders, then you could wind up with backfires. The idea with a single fire setup is that you get one spark for one ylinder, even with an electronic ignition. I hung a Dyna electronic ignition and a pair of 3 ohm coils on my FLT, and what a wonderful difference (besides that, someone told me I couldn't put two coils on the stock frame...did I ever fool them...built a hidden mount under the seat). Harder hitting, better idle. Now some of the new single fires run a single coil, but I am sort of the old school here about heat buildup in coils (one coil is going to build up heat firing twice as often as two in the two oil rig). Also, if I should have a coil failure, I still will get someplace on one cylinder. Oh yeah, on road trips on the Harley, I carry a spare electronic ignition plate and coil...haven't ever had to change 'em, but I figure the first time me and the shovel take off for a nice road trip without my ignition spares, I will lose a coil or burn out an ignition module. Ed"}, {"response": 80, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (02:53)", "body": "The backfires make sense. I understand the idea of a waste spark, I just didn't understand why it mattered much. That all makes sense. Don't most motorcycles have a waste fire?"}, {"response": 81, "author": "Ed", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (09:02)", "body": "Don't know Jon, never thought about it. In the HD V-twin, the \"wasted\" spark isn't symmetrical...it fires, then fires 45 degrees later for the rear cylinder. Again, I think it may be the HD V-twin is susceptible to problems with the stock ignition once you change the properties of the valve timing by recamming. On mine, I first put on a new carburetor; eventually rejetted the intermediate range. Got better perfomance throughout, but lower mileage. No backfires. Then I put a different style of pipe on got away from the HD crossover pipe arrangement used on the tourers. Now, my rear cylinder ran a little cooler, not quite as rich. No backfires. Then I recammed to a modified street cam, for better pulling from 2 thousand to 45 hundred RPM...oops, started backfiring. Started monkeying around with the timing...could not get rid of the backfires when backing off. Hmmm! Went back to the carburetor looking for trouble...rebuilt same. Backfires still there. Don't know where I got the idea, but figured out that it was time for a single fire system. After hacking one together and figuring out how to mount coils on stock FLT frame so they wouldn't show, I lost my backfire. Idles good, runs up through the RPMs smooth as melted chocolate pours, backs off with no sputtering, spitting, or popping. (All this happened over about 3 years and 40K miles of figuring stuff out). My conclusion is that the 45 degree V-twin is particularly touchy once you start changing stuff...otherwise there would probably not be much aftermarket for HD single fire kits. Ed"}, {"response": 82, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov 22, 1997 (14:16)", "body": "That makes absolute sense. I was told that my '83 Nighthawk had a waste fire. I wonder what it's firing is like? 180 degrees? That would basically elminate such a problem."}, {"response": 83, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Nov 23, 1997 (19:45)", "body": "Ed, on the 883 I only plan on adding the SE air cleaner kit, SE slip-ons and changing out for a differnt seat than the single stocker. I will be able to only spend little amounts of money here and there for quite sometime. Hey, how reliable are H-D's with evo motors, I've been getting a lot of \"horror stories\" from riders of H-D and others?? I must have a reliable bike, that's the most important factor for me, the brand is secondary as I really hate being left on the side of the road! I can't seem to get a \"honest answer\" on how much down time the evo riders experiance over time and longer distances. I'd really appreciate if you and Dave would fill me in on the low down maintance wise, thanks BJ Ondo"}, {"response": 84, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov 23, 1997 (23:58)", "body": "I would think (I've ridden an EVO Sporty 1200) that the biggest reliability problem with an EVO would be the vibes. First, you have to tighten alot of nuts and bolts to keep things from falling off, and the other question is how do you engineer a machine to be reliable when it shakes that much? But I've heard nothing but good about EVOs. Still, there's a whole lotta shakin' going on."}, {"response": 85, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (07:29)", "body": "Jon You are a Truimph owner you should know the answer! LOCTITE! (and crinkle washers, and nyloc nuts, and tab washers and locking wire and casle nuts and when all else fails WELD!)"}, {"response": 86, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (09:37)", "body": "I agree Shebee and Jon--making sure stuff is tight is the only maintenance headache. The motors are solid, and properly maintianed, should run 100,000 without trouble. BJ, if you change out your mufflers and aircleaner, you must rejet the carb. If you don't, you will run too lean and potentially damage the pistons. Lean mixtures burn slow and hot. The stock setup is at the limit of lean to begin with, and the extra air flow will take you into the danger zone. It's not a high-cost item, but very necessary, especially if you want the bike to run well. I would say don't put on the aircleaner and pipes until you are ready to rejet. Shake, but don't bake!"}, {"response": 87, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (13:30)", "body": "Hey BJ, why not spring for a 1200? I mean, an 883 is going to be cramped for you, and last I checked (about 3 years ago, admittedly) the 1200s were only about $1000 more. And SheBee, I'm not a Triumph owner yet--I'm sure I'll learn. Had to do that with my old XS650, though."}, {"response": 88, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (14:31)", "body": "You can easily convert an 883 to a 1200 for well under $1,000. The size of the bike frame is the same, although the 883 has is a tiny bit lower in the seat. When you're bored, bore out!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "triumph", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (15:11)", "body": "Uner $1000 for everything (labor included)? You can bore an 883 to 1200? Geez! What's that do to reliability?"}, {"response": 90, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (16:33)", "body": "Nothing, Jon. The right shop/dealer can save you money on that one. What about the '98 Sportster Sport? $8400, looks like they finally got it right!"}, {"response": 91, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (17:02)", "body": "Nothing as far as I know Jon. They make a kit just for that purpose. There is a guy here at the office that's looking into it. It's pretty common. There is a time and a kit for every purpose under Heaven"}, {"response": 92, "author": "Ed", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (20:39)", "body": "First of BJ, welcome...good to see you here. Just about everyone I know with an EVO, whether in the Sportster version, or the 80 cubic incher has very little maintenance problem...oh, every now and then, there is the loose this or that, but overall, not too bad. That doesn't mean you can ignore the routine stuff that any ride needs. What will change the axiom is high revs...the stock Harleys don't do well at the higher RPMs. Ed"}, {"response": 93, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (20:42)", "body": "Jon, didn't do a 1200 as the price is $7,610 before the 8.5% dealer mark up (figured from the difference between MSRP on the 883 and dealers price). So the 883 is in the budget for \"no payments\", the 1200 isn't. Plus dealer prep and freight is \"$695.00\" I have a limit of $7,000 dollars and with the new seat and windshield Iam right at that point with the 883. The BMW is MSRP at $7,400 but it's a leftover 97 and he will drop it down to 6,800 so with tax, prep, freight and bmw hardbags ($660.00) he's worked it out to $7,300 which is the extreeme limit I can go. Brad is right, infact the dealer recommends to do the \"conversion\" instead of buying a 1200 model to save money. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 94, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (08:59)", "body": "BJ I know you were after a Harley for some time now, good that you found a way in! Just don't look too long at the Accessories catalog, you may be cryin' more than ridin'!"}, {"response": 95, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (11:11)", "body": "BJ, you made a good choice, and I know you'll enjoy it. Just do yourself a favor and try to maintain some control when the new parts catalog comes to your door! hehe BJ--a real Sporty guy! ;-)"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (11:12)", "body": "Hee, Frank and I are sharing brain waves this morning! BEEP BEEP!!!"}, {"response": 97, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (11:12)", "body": "BJ, you made a good choice, and I know you'll enjoy it. Just do yourself a favor and try to maintain some control when the new parts catalog comes to your door! hehe BJ--a real Sporty guy! ;-)"}, {"response": 98, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (12:19)", "body": "My friend gets 2 copies of all the Harley catalogs, one for him and the 2nd which he says to me \"That's your copy\", like *HintHint*pickupsomethingforme*. I'd love to give some of the stuff as gifts but man, Expensive. Plus it's a personal thing to pick yer own, no?"}, {"response": 99, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (13:34)", "body": "What's up with harley? Do folks love/hate it? Is Harley going down hill? Has Honda passed them by again?"}, {"response": 100, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "What do we do (folks)? Kidnap Paul, dressed in leather outfits and drag him around with us each in groups of 3 let's say? Kind of apprenticeship? Harley guys last on line? (o; Harley is probably one of *the* most successful businesses in the world which has motorcycles as the product. People love it *and hate it. Honda & Harley really don't run together at all, I think."}, {"response": 101, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (14:04)", "body": "\"dressed in leather outfits and drag him around with us each in groups of 3\" Hey can I play! :) - or maybe I cant since the last Honda I had was a C90?"}, {"response": 102, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "You got it Frank. People have been predicting HD's demise for years, while secretly purchasing their stock for retirement! hehe Of course, Honda makes good products, and so does HD. You don't have to hate one to love the other, and neither company is succeeding at the other's expense. It's not lonely at the top!"}, {"response": 103, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "So the Vaklyrie isn't a Harley killer?"}, {"response": 104, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (14:47)", "body": "Nah, the Valk is a whole different deal. It's a hotrod that draws its styling from the American classics but its soul from Honda's past. It's a unique deal that some will love and others won't--but it won't affect HD sales much, I figure."}, {"response": 105, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (15:09)", "body": "I think the point Frank made on the Polaris is accurate. There will be a few people around the margin that will forgo an HD for something like Polaris or the Honda Valkyrie to save a few bucks or a little time, but there aren't enough of them to make a big dent in Harley sales. Most folks that want a Harley will not accept anything else. IMHO, the Valk is not the kind of machine that can capture the heart and the soul of an HD enthusiast. What's his blood type? Orange?"}, {"response": 106, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "Harley-Davidson is as much an image as a motorcycle, as much a vision of WWII dispatch riders and Peter Fonda as it is an assembley of parts. It's Hollywood on two wheels. Honda makes motorcycles of all kinds, from the C90 (bigger version of the universal C50 Cub) to the GL1500 GoldWing (for those who can't decide between an Accord Wagon and a motorcycle) The Valkyrie is a V-Max killer that really should have taken that left turn at Albequerque, because it ended up in the middle of Cruiserville, where it's O.K. thanks to the comfort left over from the GoldWing components, but where it looks a bit uncomfortable, like a drag racer in drag. Harley-Davidson really wouldn't make a bike like the Nighthawk (if they weren't already making the Sportster... since 1957!) and they DEFINITELY would not make such a bike as the PC800 Pacific Coast, which has totally foregone style in favour of innovation (has anyone else, apart from scooter makers, built a bike with an integral trunk?) and has given up the D-P market completely. If you want a real sportbike, the only way to get one in a Harley flavour (unless you build your own) is to buy a Buell, whic uses a Sportster 1200 engine and top-line sportbike pieces from just about everywhere else but H-D. I really should have put this opinion column under Honda, but this is where the argument is..."}, {"response": 107, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "What's Harleys answer to the Valk?"}, {"response": 108, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (19:24)", "body": "Does NOT have one, at least not stock. However, the Screamin' Eagle performance parts division of H-D, or aftermarket engine builders like S&S can provide hop-up parts or complete engines to supply the power to catch Valkyries or V-Maxes. Style-wise, there are some who argue (Not me, Marc!!!) that the Yamaha Royal Star and the Valkyrie are replies to the H-D Road King. I have no effective answer for the Royal Star (except that I STILL wonder about the fake fins), but the Valkyrie is definitely something completely different. (English accenthere:) And now for something completely different!"}, {"response": 109, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (20:09)", "body": "Albert says to me \"What good is an image or a vision if all you see of it is the parts all over the garage\""}, {"response": 110, "author": "Afor", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (22:10)", "body": "I take it he's an active Harley non-fan. I think Harleys have improved since the bad old days of AMF, but I personally don't know how much. They held the lead in factory recalls in 1994 (BMW came second, I think...) How long has Albert been riding? You apologized for saying he was a beginner and told us he was quite experienced. Did he have a Harley that he had to take apart?"}, {"response": 111, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (00:25)", "body": "The lead in numbers or percentages? What percentage of their bikes in 94 were subject to recall?"}, {"response": 112, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (02:25)", "body": "I mistakenly said he was a beginner. I'll ask him when I see him. He got quite agitated about the Harley thing. He's very wrapped up in the Valk. Last I heard, he was headed off for the Continental Club, it's made him much more outgoing. He shaved his head a couple of days ago and is undergoing sort of an identity metamorphosis."}, {"response": 113, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (02:29)", "body": "LOL. Yeah, sounds like a Harley rider to me! (Better not tell him I said that......)"}, {"response": 114, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (07:29)", "body": "Number, I think. I read the motorcycle recall list in Consumer Digest 's 1994 yearbook, and Harley almost monopolized the column-long list, leaving two or three to BMW. I don't recall seeing any Big Four bikes in the list (was Triumph there? I'm not sure...)"}, {"response": 115, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "My wife would say 'mid-life crisis' for Albert. Some guys just grabbed the reins and learned how to take 'em apart and put 'em back together, wether knucklehead, AMF-bike or whatever. Some just don't want that and look elswhere. Get him on the board to exchange gripes/praises!"}, {"response": 116, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (11:54)", "body": "Albert has bought into an image too, just not the one Harley offers. Anti-Harleyism is perhaps more trendy today than Harleyism. I think he should just ride what he has and leave others to do the same. I won't hold it against him that he bought a Valk--promise! ;-) If you say you don't want a Harley long enough, you might actually believe it! hehe"}, {"response": 117, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (19:52)", "body": "Well, I wouldn't mind a Sportster or a Dyna Convertible, but... As the song says, \"Be Thankful For What You Got\" (The writer of that song took his own advice and only wrote one verse, which was repeated a few times by the singer when he recorded it!)"}, {"response": 118, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (13:32)", "body": "Iam starting to look at a used Buell S2 with higher bars and lower pegs. It's only got 14,000 miles and I personally know the 1st. and 2nd. owner. It's been very well cared for and I was major surpirzed that the bike has a very level seat position which keep the \"pressure off my hands\"! See most sportbikes has the seat \"heading down hill\" which really puts pressure on the hands and wrist's, which kills the comfort factor for me and makes most sportbikes un-rideable! So since you guys know everything there is to know about bikes (: How's about giving me your unbiased opinons on the Buell S2. They want $7,900 but I bet I can talk them down to $7,500 as Buell's aren't as popular as H-D's!! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 119, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "The S2s are awesome. Strong 1200cc EVO motor, good handling and stopping, and (in my opinion) killer (and no doubt unique) looks. I've ridden (did I mention this before somewhere?) a 1200cc Sporty and if you had that engine's characteristics (super low down grunt) in a great sportbike chassis that actually vibes less than a Sporty, well that's nirvana. And they're rare to top it off. You might even try to get down to $6,500. I would be careful, though, as the S2s are much more problem prone than the S1s from what I've read."}, {"response": 120, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (08:01)", "body": "Unless Cycle World gets special treatment, Buell has a very good service department, but I wonder if it's due to a large amount of experience in a short time..."}, {"response": 121, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (11:08)", "body": "Something like that. Did you see their long term test S2's performance? Broke down alot, but they kept saying \"it was only a pre-production unit\", etc. But your'e right--they fixed everything that went wrong."}, {"response": 122, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Nov 29, 1997 (13:43)", "body": "BJ: Offer 7K and stick to it! You'll like it MUCH better than a Hugger all round. I was wondering when you'd think of this, as long as a used bike is in the picture. I think they'd be happy with the 7 grand."}, {"response": 123, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:13)", "body": "Frank, well as in my life of constant change, looks like I won't be getting either the Sportster or the Buell! See the money we are getting is from the \"profit sharing account\" from JO's last job (13 years at SAM'S CLUB (ie:WalMart), and the IRS is killing us in taxes on us so there won't be quite as much money as we figured, that's change #1. Change #2 is that JO (my wife) has decided that she really wanted the Intruder 800 instead of the 650 Savage, our dealer gave us a great deal on the leftover 96 Sav ge but the only Intruder 800 leftover he had was a 97 and with that much more money involved. Being the semi-decent husband I am, Iam bowing out from the Sportster/Buell deal and JO is getting her lovely red Intruder, (after all it is her money for working at a crappy retail job for 13 years!!). So now Iam looking at 2 bikes: A. Suzuki Maruder 800 B. Honda 750 NightHawk These machines are around $1,000 to 1,500 dollars cheaper and are within my reach with what will be left after the Intruder purchase. These are pretty much my \"new bike options\", now used bikes are a different story so who knows what I will end up with! In Jan. I'll let everybody know, I love life, it's always one thing or another! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 124, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:32)", "body": "Used Suggestions: i. Virago 750 ii. Intruder 800 iii. GS500 iv. KLR650 v. 600 Eliminator vi. Shadow (I'm actually recommending a fake fin bike?) vii. Nighthawk (This would have been higher up if you hadn't already told me that you consider them to be plain) Will some Yamaha fans (I used to be one!) please recommend some Yamahas?"}, {"response": 125, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:34)", "body": "OOPS! The very first bike on the list IS a Yamaha! Thought I didn't have any on. Well, Yamaha fans can add more Yamahas to the list, then. I used to think of myself as a Suzuki non-fan. Either Suzuki got better or I got better informed!"}, {"response": 126, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (11:59)", "body": "BJ, grab a nightHawk and be happy! It can always be sold."}, {"response": 127, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (13:19)", "body": "You had to pay taxes, BJ? That can't be! The government makes extra sure that only nasty old rich people have to pay taxes! (O.K., so I'm being sarcastic because of my resentment of the tax system in this country....)"}, {"response": 128, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (20:02)", "body": "Iam with ya Jon, JO earned $19,000 dollars in the 13 years in her profit sharing account. Right of the top is 21% which brings it down to $15,000 which should buy us the 2 machines we want \"BUT\", we were informed that we could be charged a \"additional\" 10% tax by the IRS, and of course that's on the $19,000 Gross amount, not on the $15,000 Net amount. So we have to hold back a min. of $2,000 dollars, so we are down to $13,000 at best. Jo's 97 Intruder is $6,100 out the door (taxes and dealer prep included), that leaves $6,900 and the cost out the door for a sportster 883 from my local dealer is $7,100 (taxes and dealer prep included) so were already $200.00 short and that doesn't include windshields,lower seat for JO and was hoping for a different seat for the Sporty as the stock seat is pretty bad. So to be smart I will look for a bike in the $6,000 out the door range and have a little money to cover 6 months insurance and plates for 2 new bikes! This is because of the Harley dealer markup of 8.5% (883 Sporty MSRP= $5395--Dealer price $5895+ $700 dollars set up and dealer prep, $90 document fees and $400 in taxes for the lovely state and county of Colorado. The $5395 Sporty now total cost is $7,100 out the door with no accessiores, ouch! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 129, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (23:18)", "body": "BJ, Have you checked with other dealers? Your dealer is obviously not being straight with you. The MSRP price already includes a dealer markup. I have no idea how much it is, but I assure you--it is enough to keep most dealerships profitable--after all, the ripoff dealerships only recently(3 years) started to jack the prices up over MSRP. Don't let anyone tell you that ALL dealers are participating in these ripoff policies. They aren't! Most dealers still sell bikes at MSRP. Check around, make some ca ls. Who needs the money more, you or a dealership? IMHO the $700 figure for dealer prep (removing the bike from the shipping crate) and setup (adding a few quarts of oil, putting a battery in, and wiping off any dirt or grime) is astronomically outrageous. In this situation however, there remains little that can be done. Just thought I'd add my $.02 Hoop"}, {"response": 130, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "Thanks Hoop, ya Iam starting to look at all the options! Seem's most of the Jap/Euro dealers have prep and freight set at a total of $290.00, that would give me $400.00 to cover access. or insurance. It's just now I look like a goon, I've been telling everyone Iam gona buy a Harley and now Iam changing my mind so soon. Have learned \"say nothing\" till something happens! Thanks. Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 131, "author": "Afor", "date": "Mon, Dec  1, 1997 (23:14)", "body": "Just tell 'em, \"I lost my Harley to the tax-man!\" They'll sympathize! ;-]"}, {"response": 132, "author": "yves", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (03:53)", "body": "Only perfect people never chage their mind and I HATE perfect people..."}, {"response": 133, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "Hey BJ personally I like hearing about all your choices. Don't let anything pressure you after all its winter and the dealers are happy to see a live body walk in!"}, {"response": 134, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Tue, Dec  2, 1997 (20:12)", "body": "Frank, you know it seem's that the local dealers don't slow down much in the winter here but we have fairly mild winters much of the time but Elnieo might change that. Have to admit Iam kinda bending toward finding a used Kawasaki Concours and giving sport touring a try. It's as close to sportbiking as this old body well ever get. The search continues! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 135, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (11:20)", "body": "Just can't get the mind off the Harley Sportster, damn it seems the propaganda machine is working on my brain hard, figured that we \"can\" still buy the sportster but it's real close. See Jo is so short that she can only ride cruisers and even the 27\" seat heigt of the 800 Intruder is a strech for her (we are ordering a Saddleman \"lowboy\" custom seat) for JO. The problem is that if I buy a sport tourer type machine Iam always leaving JO in the dust, the tires and maintance on a sport tourer is higher due o engine type and required sticker tires. A Sporty has hyd.valves and a belt drive it should be fairly major maintance free. Having a cruiser to me means Harley, the Japanese versions are nice but cookie cutter in style (at least the models I can afford). Jo is my best riding partner and most of my friends ride either tourers or cruisers. Having a sport machine is NO FUN when riding with cruisers, even the ThunderBird custom seemed FAST when riding with the gang. Probably gona lose all common sense and ge the Sporty after all! Damn, the H-D shops must do subliminal messages or odorless mind control gas! If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand! Help me, Help me Mister Wizard, ha ha! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 136, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (11:46)", "body": "BJ, if an early Buell won't fit the bill, and the $$ is right, get the Sportster you seem to want pretty much more'n anything else. Understand that every Harley is a building foundation and plan accordingly. EVERYone I know on even the \"simplest\" of Harley's changes bars, seat, tank, all those, or more. Most sport-tourers require some ergonomic adjustments to controls, a set of bags, and that's it. But I can feel the desire for the American iron over here on my monitor!"}, {"response": 137, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (21:50)", "body": "BJ, is there an MuZ dealer near you? See if they have any leftover Silver Stars. If they're too small for you, maybe you can convince Jo? Then you may have enough for your Sporty (or your Silver Star? You did say you like unusual bikes, how unusual is a Sportster, really?)"}, {"response": 138, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (10:47)", "body": "Sam, you have a point, in that a Sportster is definently a main stream motorcycle. To be honest, it's not really the bike that is the selling point. See Iam a social rider, I don't like being a loner much and HOG seems's like the \"family\" I have always craved. Yes, I know it sounds stupid since \"real motorcycle riders are independent, free sprited, lonewolf\" types but Iam not! Plus Iam a real curious fellow, I have a need to explore each bike and find it's points good or bad and many of my friends ride H rleys and love em so maybe the majority \"is right\" or maybe they are full of !@#$ but it would be fun to find out! See my physical problems keep me out of my first love, SportBikes, I'd love to be able to ride a CBR1100XX but I can't except a few miles, what good is bike if you can't ride it!!! I can't afford a comfortable touring rig like a Voyager or Wing unless I buy a outdated discontinued model (ie: 1000, 1100 or 1200) unlike my Friend Frank, Iam not much for older bikes, don't want anything more than 5 years old \"for my main riding bike\"! The next step in the \"comfort\" zone for me is Cruisers and to be blunt, Harley has the style over anyother cruisers IMHO. Sam, I have looked at the MZ Skorpin model but the dealership sold out here and won't bring them back due to extreemly slow sales. This is my fear with buying the leftover Triumph Trident also. My Triumph dealer is \"not a happy camper\" as Triumph UK. basicly told the dealers to \"shove it up their ass\" when the price cuts started happening and I like being able to work local. It shows as Iam willing to \"pay\" the local harley dealer his \"blackmail\" money as I have had problems when I bought a bike at a out f town dealership and needed warrunty work done. See as stated if I decide that \"Cruiser Style\" is the way to go then it's \"got to be a Harley\" or I'd just as soon buy a \"different style of bike\"! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 139, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (10:59)", "body": "No Skorpions...No Silver Stars either? MuZ has discontinued the Saxon Tour and the Silver Star (a \"retro\" version of the Saxon), but I was told that they had a lot still in the showrooms (which is probably why they were discontinued!) I think you said that 500s were a bit small for you, but you also said that you like unusual bikes with style; a Silver Star sure fits that bill! Good luck with HOG! Then again, maybe you could get a used Virago 750 or 1100 and join RSTAR! (If this doesn't flush K out of the woodwork, I don't know what will!)"}, {"response": 140, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (11:40)", "body": "BJ, You seem to be saying that you personally need to experience the many different facets of motorcycling and that a Sportster & HOG is yet another facet you wish to enjoy. You are aware of the current price \"situation\" and have decided to do commerce with your local dealer. I say to you--good luck and to \"enjoy the ride\". The Sportster will provide you with memories of a lifetime!! I am sorry to hear about the ABATE members getting down on you for wearing a helmet. As a longtime ABATE member--I apologize for the stupidity of my brethren. Enjoy your new ride!! Hoop"}, {"response": 141, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (12:05)", "body": "BJ, your local dealers sound like royal pains in the ass! One wants exorbitant \"setup\" moneys, another you say wouldn't do warranty work because you didn't buy the bike there? Those are 2 of the Top Ten reasons for finding a different dealer and putting up with a commute there. With the Laverda, as you may imagine, the nearest real wrench was 1 hour/82 miles away. The Ducati guy is 48 miles away. The Guzzi guy is in another state. But getting honest compassionate attention is a priority that should come w th your investment, so it's worth the effort to hunt 'em down! My buddy bought his Ropad King at one guy and goes anywhere he wants for his stuff. Perhaps it depends on location differences, but I feel any Harley guy will welcome your business more than not at all."}, {"response": 142, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (12:26)", "body": "BJ, don't get an 883. I've been reading some of my back issues of CW and Motorcyclist and I've come to a conclusion--you'll be selling it in a week. If the 883 didn't have \"worse than a 125 thumper dirt bike\" performance, it might be o.k., but the 883 just doesn't have performance that other bikes of the same displacement have. Not even close. Add to that the vibes (o.k., I know, you put like 40,000 miles on an XS650, but still--it's a pain). What you need is a full sized bike with full sized performance. If HD doesn't make one you can afford, I'd say go elsewhere."}, {"response": 143, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (13:42)", "body": "I'm inclined towards Jon's opinion BJ. As I mentioned, between your size and style and my rather limited experience with things Harley, the small Sporty will leave you wanting to turn it over very quickly. Are there enough well-placed gas stops where you ride? Do those little buckhorns suit you? Do you mind being able to see your toes from the seat, since they'll be right below your elbow, etc.?"}, {"response": 144, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (23:27)", "body": "Points well taken Jon and Frank, well things change quickly here in Ondoland! Looks like Jo and I are getting matching Suzuki 800 Intruders. My local Suzuki dealer gave me a excellent deal on 2-left over 97's, has no dearler prep costs and is giving me cost+ 20% on accessiores for 3 months. I get 2-800cc cruisers for the price of one MSRP Harley-Davidson \"Super Glide\", just can't turn down such a excellent offer to keep our busines at the local dealer. Mines black and Jo's is red so as of Jan. we will be intruding on everyone's riding space, ha ha. I know it's not the Euro bike you all were hoping I'd buy but most of the Eurobikes I really want (ie:R1100RT) are forever out of my budget so Iam gona give cruisin a 100% try and who knows, might end up on a Valk someday, ha ha! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 145, "author": "Afor", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (01:52)", "body": "The 883 is looking more & more like the Harley for me..."}, {"response": 146, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (02:31)", "body": "I think you will enjoy the rides BJ... Get pics posted soon... COngrats..."}, {"response": 147, "author": "yves", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (02:38)", "body": "Great BJ. You'll be \"double matched\" with Jo."}, {"response": 148, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (02:56)", "body": "So much for blaming the bike for getting out rode... LOL"}, {"response": 149, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (09:45)", "body": "Shane, well Jo is such a \"mellow rider\" that I don't think it will be a problem, if it does there's always the aftermarket,ha ha. No way to send pictures, I use a Lowly Web Tv unit with no hopes of having \"scanner capabilities\" in the foreseeable future!! Too bad as adding a picture of the 2 of us to our humble website would be excellent. See it has to be set up as a URL. The web tv unit has no \"hard drive\" so I can't use FTP files either. It putts me around the WWW and as long as the site isn't in JAVA can usually access it ok! Figure on riding the 800 Intruder for a couple of years and the figure out weither to go to a Touring Cruiser or just trade in for a Kawasaki Voyager. As I head towards 50, comfort is becoming more a factor and having some serious \"tunes\" while riding the plains might be real excellent too! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 150, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (13:25)", "body": "No, Jo (by virtue of the fact she weighs half as much as you) will always blow you away (all else being equal)."}, {"response": 151, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Sun, Dec  7, 1997 (20:08)", "body": "Jon, you have no idea of what at \"smell the roses\" rider that my Jo is, ha ha! Fast is not something she cares about and she's very careful and cautious. So yes, I agree with you in a sciencetific way but in reality, \"she's toast\", ha ha! BJ"}, {"response": 152, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (12:50)", "body": "Glad you're going to get a ride BJ, and the choice is a nice one. You can always get an \"associate\" HOG membership from one of your HD buddies if you really want to join in. Sam, as far as your comment, I agree--the 883 would be an interesting bike for you. I disagree with Jon--the 883 can be made to kick butt with very little money, and vibes issue is way over-rated IMHO. In fact, if you read this year's CW feature article on middle-weight cruisers Jon, you will see that Cycle World editors actually picked the 883 Sportster as the best bike in their lineup, including the new Honda Shadow 750 ACE. Sportsters handle very well, they are light, stable, and solid. And if size is an issue, a set of forward controls and different bars can take care of that for most folks. If you want a small bike with broad shoulders, the 883 could be a great choice. Sportsters are exactly what the name implies--fun!"}, {"response": 153, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (21:50)", "body": "Right, but they said \"The 883 is best, BUT it vibes, BUT it's slow, BUT\", etc. They basically said a bunch of bad things about it then picked it. One of the worst reviews I've seen. I'm not saying the 883 is a bad bike, but it's a bad bike for anyone who's not a beginner. It's just not a real, full sized bike. Japan, on the other hand, does make some 800cc class bikes that are, the HD is just too small and slow to be a practical ride for an experienced rider like BJ, in my opinion. A 1200, now that's another story...."}, {"response": 154, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (00:07)", "body": "The 1200's no bigger..."}, {"response": 155, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (00:58)", "body": "It's lots faster, though. Size is all relative. ;-)"}, {"response": 156, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (06:16)", "body": "Ain't that the truth! In Jamaica, the largest bike Yamaha sells is the XV535! Honda's biggest bike offered (upon order, they have none in the showroom) is the CBR600."}, {"response": 157, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (10:54)", "body": "The 883 seems to be HD's Camaro; not bad but most buy it to get the aura of something bigger down the line, and the price is the real 1st reason it's sold.. I think Harley makes it pretty clear as to it's entry level status, meaning that most trade up or surely use it as a personal customizing foundation for a narrower focus. I looked at an acquaintances' Intruder 800 last week and once you get close it's a pretty heavy piece of machinery; add some Jardines and bags and you're done."}, {"response": 158, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (15:01)", "body": "Oh, I thought you liked CW Jon? How about MO? Here's what Motorcycle Online says about the 883 HD in their latest middle-weight shootout that included the Kaw Vulcan 800, the Suzuki Marauder, the Yamaha Virago 750, and the Honda Shadow ACE 750. It [HD 883] is the most powerful, and it has the most potential...it has the best rear brakes (actually the only one equipped with a disc) in the test. That, along with having the best ground clearance, handling, and being the most original, goes a long way. Further, the belt-drive system has a much longer service interval than a chain (80,000 miles). Bottom line is that the Sportster is not a complete motorcycle, it's a work in progress, waiting for your finishing touch. Versatility is the name of its game. The Sportster can be transformed into anything from a full-boat boulevard cruiser to a hot-rod canyon bullet (if you don't believe us, ask Jake Zemke, who recently beat out a field including 916s in Willow Springs' Unlimited Twins class on his de-restricted NASB Twin Sports racer). After eleven years in production, with just little improvements here and there, the Sportster has a larger aftermarket than anything without the word Softail in it. ...So you ask -- no scream -- again, \"Second Place?\" To that we shout an unapologetic, \"Yes!\" There you have it. MO picked the 883 as second only to the ACE, and by the thinest of margins--head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. In Jon's defense, they did mention the vibration on the Sporty as a negative, but it didn't outweight all the positives, of which there were many! Be a Sport!"}, {"response": 159, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (15:19)", "body": "I'd like a close look at that NASB bike. Beat a field of 916's? PYeah! Who the hell was riding them? ;oP"}, {"response": 160, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (15:20)", "body": "Powerful? I've ridden a '91 Sporty 1200 and its power was barely acceptable, in my opinion, for a bike of that size and displacement. The torque was fun, and it could launch hard off the line, but my measly old '83 Nighthawk 650 could hang with it. I can't imagine what the 883 is like. Almost everyone I've talked to says \"slow\". No, I don't particularly like CW or MO. The only moto pub I like is Motorcyclist. I read CW, but that's because I like bikes, not the mag. True, HD riders aren't looking for big power, but they do like big torque. And when it comes to torque, to use a cliche, there's \"no substitute for cubic centimeters\"."}, {"response": 161, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (15:21)", "body": "Oh, I agree about it being original. The 883 emulates HD only, it's not a knock off of someone else's style. I also don't doubt that it handles best too, as it's not really in the big cruiser vein, as the others were trying to be."}, {"response": 162, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "I tell you what, though. The best sounding event at the AMA race by far was the 883 race. That thunder just gets into your bones. The Ducati SBs were a close second, but one or two bikes is not the same as 20 open piped narrow angle V-twins all thundering away at the start. Awesome!"}, {"response": 163, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (15:48)", "body": "As far as power goes Jon, a stock Sportster can be tricked up for very litte $$. Oh, and when it comes time to sell and move up you don't lose your shirt or your wallet on the Sporty. In the meantime, I guess we'll just have to wait for Motorcyclist to pick the 883 in their next middle-weight shootout! ;-) FACTOID: The 883 is the #1 selling motorcycle in America!"}, {"response": 164, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "It's very true. Lots can be done to soup them up. And it is the number one selling bike in America, although it seems like I see more Softails and Glides on the roads. That's odd."}, {"response": 165, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (18:09)", "body": "I agree, Jon. When I rode my friend's 1200, I had to remind myself not to overdo the throttle for fear of launching a valve or some such. The bike \"felt\" gutsy, but the twisting didn't match my preconceptions. A good starter bike though."}, {"response": 166, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (18:11)", "body": "Agreed, Frank, but BJ is far from a starter. It'll be interesting to see what he ends up with."}, {"response": 167, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (18:12)", "body": "Frank said, \"I'd like a close look at that NASB bike. Beat a field of 916's? PYeah! Who the hell was riding them? ;oP\" Hee, some very disappointed riders I would presume! ;-) Actually, I think the basic point there was not whether or not a Sportster (in any form) can really hang with a 916--just that the Sportster can be made into the kind of bike YOU want--be it a laid back cruiser, a street fighter, or a canyon racer. Call it a Sportster EVO-lution!"}, {"response": 168, "author": "Afor", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (19:02)", "body": "I think that anything with 883 cc is bloody BIG! A Nighthawk 450 seems to me like something to grow into! Yet y'all consider 500s, 600s and even 750s small? Howzat? Motorcyclist did have a comparo with the \"last\" of the 750 Nighthawks (during the year that it was discontinued in the U.S.), an 883 Sportster, a Seca II, a Kawasaki EX500 and a Suzuki GS500. I don't remember how it was rated, but one thing that struck me was that it was the heaviest bike with the biggest engine and it had the best fuel economy! I still don't know how!"}, {"response": 169, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (19:06)", "body": "Frank said, \"I'd like a close look at that NASB bike. Beat a field of 916's? PYeah! Who the hell was riding them? ;oP\" Hee, some very disappointed riders I would presume! ;-) Actually, I think the basic point there was not whether or not a Sportster (in any form) can really hang with a 916--just that the Sportster can be made into the kind of bike YOU want--be it a laid back cruiser, a street fighter, or a canyon racer. Call it a Sportster EVO-lution!"}, {"response": 170, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "Jon and Frank, lots of experienced and long-time riders are on Sportsters. I think Sportsters can be a good place to begin or end, depending on your own personal frame of reference. You don't need a Big Twin to ride tall!"}, {"response": 171, "author": "ramblinman", "date": "Wed, Dec 10, 1997 (21:27)", "body": "I agree with Brad about what the Sportster , could,can and might be. Jon I bought a 800 Intruder leftover like Jo's only in a different color. The \"Dealer costs of mark up and freight/prep\" basicly was the \"deciding factor\" IN NOT BUYING THE SPORTY. The other factors were, \"excessive vibrations\" at a constant highway speed, no money in the budget to do the intial mods required to bring the power up. I plan on traveling and the Intruder was \"much smoother\". Frank hit the nail on the head, throw on some bags and a small windshield and the Intruder is ready to go (someday a nice set of aftermarket slip-ons for better breathing and a little more sound.) NO I don't want it to sound like a Harley, just a little more bark will surfice nicely! Last, if I had the bucks I was seriously looking at a left over 96 Kawasaki Voyager, comfort is starting to take priority over speed. Cruisers are comfortable and fun so it made good sense! So let's kill the dump on the Sportster vain and yes, it's a great bike but just didn't fit my personal situation at the time. To tell the truth if the \"Dresser don't come into the future, a nice (Used) Harley Low rider (ie: Dyna RUBBER GLIDE) with vibration taming motor mounts could be in the future!!! Tailwinds, BJ"}, {"response": 172, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (05:45)", "body": "Whilst we are talking sporty's - does anyone know where I can get a steel trapdoor for an evo sporty gearbox? the stock aluminium ones flex under severe load and since Boss is putting a sidecar on his (and rides outfits like a maniac) it seems like a good idea to fit a steel one before he blows the casing to bits! (This is the man who bent the gearbox main shaft on a Triumph Bonnie outfit - attempting to do 100mph across Ashdown forest, he got an indicated 110 for 1/2 a mile before there was a big bang - but it got him home!) :) they in theory exist but I cannot find a supplier!"}, {"response": 173, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (10:07)", "body": "BJ--well said. Your future looks bright--hope you bought some shades to go with the new bike! hehe. BTW, I have a friend who just lucked into a very nice used black FXR--1990, 5,000 miles, well maintained, $10,000. Owner got married--poor bastard! ;-) Shebee, I will make a call this morning and see what I can find out on the trap. Stay tuned to this same Bat (Wing) channel! I hear they have a trap door in there--be careful, Detective!"}, {"response": 174, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (10:57)", "body": "thanks"}, {"response": 175, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (10:59)", "body": "For Brad's #170: The \"experienced\" Sporty riders I've met (not a blanket statement here), are frequently guys on a limited budget who bitch about the bike/results they end up with. A guy up the road here had 13 (!) Sportsters before buying a BMW-K! IMHO they seem the least satisfied of the HD clan, but are caught in a limited vicious circle somehow. After the carbs/exhaust change, it's the cams, then the ignition's gotta be dialed, then a different cam, then, then...heads, that's it! Then.."}, {"response": 176, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (11:27)", "body": "IMHO they seem the least satisfied of the HD clan Depends on why they buy the bike. If it is lack of funds for a Big Twin without regard to their own real needs, then yes, they may be dissatisfied. Just like folks who buy a Honda VLX when they really want an 1100 Shadow. At least with a Sporty, you have some alteration options. However, there are also a good number of folks buy them because they like them. And I have seen plenty of very nice Sportsters, that I wouldn't mind having myself. Shebee's mate has one--bet he isn't whining! A guy up the road here had 13 (!) Sportsters before buying a BMW-K! Sounds like he must have really liked Sportsters. I think after 13, I might try something else too. After the carbs/exhaust change, it's the cams, then the ignition's gotta be dialed, then a different cam, then, then...heads, that's it! Then.. Then what? Ride it till ya puke or sell it and move on! BTW, the S1 Lighting heads for the Buell are now available for Sportster owners for about $250! KA BOOM!!! NO WHINING!"}, {"response": 177, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (11:45)", "body": "That's interesting about the Buell heads. But what about the flywheel and cams changes? Wouldn't it be dumb to just swap in the heads alone? Tell us, Master Hogman! The thing about the 13 Sportsters, etc., is that these guys must love wrenching and tinkering more than they let on. I agree there's plenty of nice Sportsters. Know what I like? The 2 companies turning out the mini-STC's & FLH lookalikes based on the small motors. Neat!"}, {"response": 178, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (12:35)", "body": "Ya Frank, I imagine it would be much less effective to do the heads alone. I just happened across a post on MO indicating that they were now available. I think Eric Buell has shown with the right parts, a Sportster 1200 motor can give even experienced Sportbike riders a fun new twist (as well as a seriously sore butt!). Master Hogman ? Hee, maybe when I grow up! I agree with you on the mini-Big Twins. Of course, guys are doing that all the time with the regular Sportsters. It's amazing what you can create from that basic bike. My god, IT'S ALIVE!"}, {"response": 179, "author": "Shane", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (13:49)", "body": "Okay.. Now that we have elevated Brad to HogMaster, Does anyone here remember a ground up sportster rebuild one could do called a \"45 Magnum\". If memory serves me correctly it was 1000 top ends on a 45 CID lower... I had the dang mag somewhere, my thought was the all of your statements are true about the versitility of the Sportster. In fact I consider the 900 to have been my first \"Real\" motorcyle. It had a lot of personality and best of all IT COOKED!!! hehehe I didn't mind that I had to manually advance for starts, the headlight was always too dim, there was never a decent electrical system, it was still FUN!! I am yet to ride a 1200 sporty but would love to give it a whirl..."}, {"response": 180, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (14:12)", "body": "Shane--try to get a test ride on a Buell S1 if you want to have some serious fun. I think a lot of dealerships allow Buell tests. Don't try that on any ordinary Harley! hehe Myself--I'd love to take a ride on that Sportster 900--sounds like a total BLAST from the past! As far as the 45 Magnum, can't help ya. Find your magazine and fill us in! Alex, I'll take Sportster trivia for $200 please!"}, {"response": 181, "author": "Shebee", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (14:15)", "body": "Over here the 45 magnum was iron 900 heads on a 45 bottom end, but i cant se why not with the 1000, I always wanted to put a front cylinder + \"thunder head\" from a sportster on to an Ariel 500 botttom end - it will go with verry little machining - oh well another \"somewhen\" project!"}, {"response": 182, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "Shane \"Hot XL\" magazine has the ads for that stuff."}, {"response": 183, "author": "triumph", "date": "Thu, Dec 11, 1997 (23:30)", "body": "Well, if I wanted a Harley (I did at first, but they don't appeal to me much any more) it would be a Sportster Sport. If that name isn't Harley's admission to how far away from the sporting vein the Sporty has gotten, I don't know what is. But the fun, super low end torque engine, fully adjustable suspension, and new larger tank (my '91 1200 riding buddy was afraid to turn down a back road unless he knew there was a gas station on it) would make it the best Harley going. But it's still a low tech design. I agree, though, that a Sporty could be turned into a 916 beater, but for the same money you could probably buy a 916. Let's see, first on the list--new frame. Next, toss the forks and suspension. Make some severe mods to the engine that give it 120 or so horses but cause it to be as reliable as a hand grenade without its pin. No doubt, it would be bad ass, but I wonder why you'd bother modifying a bike out of its element when you can buy a bike with the same sporting credentials new?"}, {"response": 184, "author": "Rodehogger", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (09:44)", "body": "For some Jon, half the fun is in the creation. Not to mention that it is still a Harley Davidson (although personally, I love the Duc). Why? Because I can!"}, {"response": 185, "author": "yves", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (16:40)", "body": "Can't imagin that most Harley owners are artists. Not the one that I see. Ther more show off people (but not all of them.) Mods and add-on cost LOT $$$$, after buying a big $$$$ bike. For those who make it a real passion, I agree. But it's not majority."}, {"response": 186, "author": "pc006", "date": "Mon, Dec 15, 1997 (11:38)", "body": "I really like the wife's (will be wife as of this Saturday) Sporty 1200 Custom. To me it's like a dirt bike with a bad attitude. Keep in mind I'm used to a 650 lb Springer. I wouldn't be able to ride it on a long haul 'cause I'm just too damn big for it. The vibes might get to you on a long haul as well, but for blowing around town it's great. The get up and go is incredible and all I've done is change the pipes (Python 3's) and rejetted the carb. It handles very well (for a HD)and it only weighs 500 lbs. Obviously it's not gonna handle like a Ducati or a ZX but then again it's not made to. I don't think that the 883 would have enough power after getting off a 1200 but then again I haven't ridden one. Goin on a long vaccation to Tahiti, Bora Bora, etc. Ahhhhh, warm weather. I'll see you guys when I get back. Dave Dave's Harley Page http://www.pipeline.com/~pc006"}, {"response": 187, "author": "Marlboro", "date": "Thu, Dec 25, 1997 (21:18)", "body": "My bike is a 72 BSA Lighting that I have been riding/building for the last three years. It started as a box of engine parts I bought for a 100.00 lots of work and now I have a bike to be proud of. The bike's nickname is My Imagination,it was given to her by a co-worker because every winter I take a hacksaw out and add a little imagination to her. She now sits just over 8 feet long and 4 inchs off the ground, the rake is to extreme to comment, with a 15 inch over gurder and 21 inch front wheel, on the rear is a plunger set-up with a 15 inch wheel, the motor is a 650cc with mukune??? carbs, 40 over bore, boyer ignition and a few trade secrets. She is a blast to ride and turns some heads. Sorry that I can't send a pic. but if you pick up AWOL mag. she was featured in vol.6 no.3"}, {"response": 188, "author": "Afor", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (06:21)", "body": "Mikuni carbs?"}, {"response": 189, "author": "Marlboro", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (14:28)", "body": "Spelling is not one of my high points."}, {"response": 190, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Fri, Dec 26, 1997 (14:59)", "body": "Totally classic chopper!"}, {"response": 191, "author": "TRA", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (19:32)", "body": "You don't see very many like that any more esp on a BSA platform.Did you you retain the oil in the frame or make your own oil tank.How is it for vibration?The post 71 models were rebalanced and suposed to be smoother. Happy TRAils/NSD Paul"}, {"response": 192, "author": "Marlboro", "date": "Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (22:47)", "body": "The frame is hand made using the motor carrage from a 64 twin. As for the oil bag, I made a horseshoe by spliting a Harley tank and removing 1.5 inchs from the width and welding it back together. The motor was balanced to run best inbetween 3500 and 5500 rpm. Before this it was a vibration nightmare, my wife has a 65 Splitfire stocker and had the same problem with vibration i guess BSA didn't do a very good job with its crankshafts. Just as a note I would say that the 71-72 model motors were worse not better, have riden and worked on many within are coop. and the older bikes always seem to be smoother. But the 71-72 motor internals are a step-up."}, {"response": 193, "author": "triumph", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (14:23)", "body": "Cool. The only Brit chopper I've ever seen was a BSA that was parked out in front of a bar up here in the hills o' Colorado. It was pretty rough looking, though."}, {"response": 194, "author": "MickStim", "date": "Sun, Feb 22, 1998 (07:29)", "body": "Currently running a ZZ-R1100 (ZXR-11 to those on the American continent) and thouroughly enjoying it! May not be the most precise handling machine of all time but sure does shift. Mike"}, {"response": 195, "author": "triumph", "date": "Sun, Feb 22, 1998 (13:03)", "body": "No, that's just a ZX-11 here, no R."}, {"response": 196, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Mon, Feb 23, 1998 (09:52)", "body": "How bad can it handle for a big heavy powermeister? Tell us? I remember riding the KZ's, the 650 was do-able but the 900 scared hell out of me; I felt i could never think it through a corner, I had to pay close physical attention. The 750R I had for a short while was stable enough for it's bulk. A very decent sport-tourer."}, {"response": 197, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Wed, Feb 25, 1998 (14:31)", "body": "Did someone say KZ??? Loved em all I did and owned a lot of em... GREAT BIKES!!! Glad to see some posting going on here since the X roads is so Network Unfriendly......"}, {"response": 198, "author": "triumph", "date": "Wed, Feb 25, 1998 (23:27)", "body": "No, you've got a crummy network admin. He should be able to allow port 8080, which is the second most popular TCP port for web pages. XRoads isn't the only site using it and their using the proxy to unnecissarily cut off those addresses just doesn't make sense."}, {"response": 199, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Thu, Feb 26, 1998 (10:11)", "body": "Y'know Shane riding the Pantah now, it's hard to believe I ran the Z650. Don't get me wrong I liked it a lot, but the size & weight difference is incredible. The power is actually comparable, both are smooth, and the midrange is really about the same, with the Duc feeling \"fatter\" somehow from the seat o' my pants. The later KZ's (after 78) were really good bikes."}, {"response": 200, "author": "PTE1", "date": "Fri, Feb 27, 1998 (11:54)", "body": "8080 huh?? Well maybe I will look into it....but to call him crummy would be a bit much. (kinda hard to argue with the pay he makes) So, Why don't Xroads use the MOST popular port?? Frank, What do you think about discontinuing the 900SS?? Have you seen the pic of the 900SS FE?? Pretty cool!! Technology has definitely left the Old heavily muscled, under framed KZ's in the dust... they were bikes you had to RIDE though... And if you didn't ride em right they bit ya...."}, {"response": 201, "author": "triumph", "date": "Fri, Feb 27, 1998 (17:49)", "body": "Then I'd get caught. \"jonlind.intergram.com\" takes you to a \"mock up\" of the corporate website that I (and my boss) use to test new ideas and make changes to the website before we put it up for the world to see. If my boss went to \"jonlind.intergram.com\" and saw XRoads instead of the corporate site mock up, he might not be happy. To \"hide\" it, I use port 8080. There's not much likelyhood of him thinking \"gee, I wonder if Jon is doing something sneaky with port 8080?\" Anyway, your guy may not be crummy, but this is not a unique problem and having port 8080 open poses no threat to the security of the network, so it might as well be there for you to use."}, {"response": 202, "author": "Cafe", "date": "Sat, Feb 28, 1998 (12:32)", "body": "Shane I think a \"porsche\" is gonna happen in Bologna; there are enough 900SS fans to keep one model in some iteration going if there's enough clamoring."}, {"response": 203, "author": "Nighthawk750", "date": "Sun, Jun 10, 2001 (13:14)", "body": "1993 Honda CB750 Nighthawk. I have wanted a motorcycle for some time and finally convinced my mother to let me have one. I dropped my bike the first day I got it, and then made the mistake of letting a friend ride it later and of course, he dropped it. I fixed everything that was banged up and got it painted. I love this bike because it is the perfect mix between a cruiser and a sport bike. I can ride it at 120mph on the backroads and just recently rode 8.5 hours strait with only two ten minute gas stops and felt wonderful. This has become an addiction"}, {"response": 204, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jun 10, 2001 (14:02)", "body": "Your answered the question I asked in topic 3! That's one smooth riding bike isn't it? How would you compare it to Honda's 8 cylinder monsters? motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 40, "subject": "BMW", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May  4, 2001 (00:20)", "body": "From http://www.best.com/~citybike/ \"The BMW R1150R Roadster reminds me of Kreuz's BBQ. It's a basic bike - it doesn't come with a windscreen, hot grips, or saddlebags (though they're available);but, like Kreuz's, is the best of its kind. It shares the same engine and 6 speed gearbox as the R1150GS, with a \"short\" 6th gear for more power. The cast aluminum wheels with five double spokes are taken from the R 1100 S, reducing unsprung weight by about a kilo. Everything on the new Roadster has been changed from the previous R1100R . . . \" It's definitely worth going to the URL to read the rest of this great review."}, {"response": 2, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Sat, May  4, 2002 (20:33)", "body": "BMW has always had interesting technology. Their first bike was built in the mid-Twenties; their first chain-driven bike was built in the late 80s or early 90s (by Aprilia, who stuck a BMW badge on it...) All BMW bikes before the first F650 were shaft-driven. In the mid-30s, BMW built the first production bikes with hydraulic telescoping front forks, and abandoned them in the '50s when everyone else was turning to them. They used Earles forks for the next ten years before returning to the hydraulic telescoping forks they pioneered. Now they have abandoned them again for their Telelever suspension that separates the steering (telescoping forks) from the suspension (swingarm & ball joint). All BMWs have the Telelever fork now except, once again, the F650 variants (F650s are no longer made for BMW by Aprilia, they are now built in-house by BMW) BMW bikes being sold in the US today include the K-series (liquid-cooled DOHC inline four mounted horizontally at the bottom of the bike), the R-series (air/oil cooled OHV horizontally-opposed \"boxer\" twins), and the F-series (conventional liquid-cooled single-cylinder chain-driven bike). The F650CS is by far the ugliest bike I have ever seen a picture of. Of BMW's current line-up, the bike I would most want is the R1150R. It is plain, unadorned, good-looking in its own way, and with the addition of a pair of saddlebags would have everything I want in a motorcycle and more. But I think I would prefer a Honda Nighthawk 750 or Suzuki GS500E... motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 41, "subject": "1st HD", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun 15, 2001 (10:03)", "body": "Welcome Glenn, glad you \"stumbled in\"! We may not have carb specs but we hae a conversation on motorcycles. Congrats on the Harley.Wish I could tell you how to set your carb, may have to wait till someone else stumbles in. Keep on haulin' down those highways, Glenn."}, {"response": 2, "author": "fishinnutinwis", "date": "Sun, Jun 17, 2001 (08:39)", "body": "yesterday i received my manual and a friend of mine and i set er up--i was the one with lots of oil in face...ok tho-kinda cool..now \"rosey\" just a thumpin and aint breakin up at all...still lookin for some opions on that single fire ignition..... glenn@wageswebworks.com motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 42, "subject": "first harley-need some tech help", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2002 (18:07)", "body": "I didn't reply to this before 'coz I came bac to the Spring about five days ago and I know very little about wrenching bikes. I sincerely hope you got some answers by now! You could probably try Motorcycle Crossroads at http://www.fp-webs.com:8080/~Xroads . There are some folks there with hard experience with Shovelheads... motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 43, "subject": "New bikes I would like to try...", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2002 (21:15)", "body": "Ducati is nice. I love the sound of fine old European names. Even if the bikes do not live up to the billing, just the sound of the name falling off the tongue is a pleasure. I agree!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2002 (21:19)", "body": "It makes me wonder if Japan has really cornered the market - aside from the Harley mystique..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  8, 2002 (08:55)", "body": "What do you know about the BMW model you list? Have you read any of Flash Gordon, MD's columns and reviews on the BMW."}, {"response": 4, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Fri, Feb  8, 2002 (20:50)", "body": "Rather little. I know it has an air/oil cooled 1150cc opposed-twin engine with camshafts high in the block and operating short pushrods. The GS version makes some pretence at off-road capability but really is too heavy for off-roading. The R version looks like something I'd want. All the R-series (opposed-twin) bikes with air/oil cooling have a unique front end called the Telelever that is supposed to be a major advance over regular telescopic forks. BMW has earned their reputation for technical innovation, but many people think their reputation for reliability is largely undeserved and that the Japanese (and Harley-Davidson, at least these days) have them beaten on that front... motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 44, "subject": "MSRP under US$5000", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 45, "subject": "Honda Shadow 1100 1997", "response_count": 17, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:29)", "body": "You mean the owners manaual?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "beachball", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:30)", "body": "Yes, made some typing mistake"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:30)", "body": "Are you really into Hondas? Is this your only car?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "beachball", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:32)", "body": "Not a car but motorcylcle"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:32)", "body": "I meant, motorcycle."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:33)", "body": "That's the snazzy Classic Edition Tourer, is this similar to your bike. ?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "beachball", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:34)", "body": "My only motorcycle, my car is a 1976 Alfa Junior 2000"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:35)", "body": "This may be closer to what you have? Nice design on the rear fender."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:36)", "body": "You probably have an owner's manual for the Alfa right?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "beachball", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:38)", "body": "Thats it, colour is blue."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:39)", "body": "I see there's this: Honda Shadow 1100cc V-Twin, 1985-1996 Binding: Hardcover, 2 edition, 392 pages Publisher: Intertec Publishing Corporation List: USD $28.95 ISBN: 0892876808 Click here to compare price at 40+ bookstores ! at http://www.addall.com/Browse/Detail/0892876808.html And this:"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:41)", "body": "This is on Amazon, bingo. Honda Shadow 1100 American Classic Edition, 1995-1997 by R. Wright List Price: $29.95 Our Price: $29.95 See All New: from $24.25 See All Used: from $23.75 Edition: Paperback"}, {"response": 13, "author": "beachball", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:41)", "body": "Yes"}, {"response": 14, "author": "beachball", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:43)", "body": "Looks good i will be in contract with Amazon. Thanks"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:48)", "body": "This is a *crass* commercial. You can support the motorcycle conference by ordering this book through us. Honda Owners Manual I realize this is crass commercialism, but we're trying to foot our bandwidth bill every month."}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun  5, 2002 (07:51)", "body": "By the way, what country are you from? Can you tell us about yourself?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Sun, Jun  9, 2002 (10:33)", "body": "Haynes order no. 2313 - Shadow 1100, 1100cc '85 thru '98 Ordering information: http://www.haynes.com/naordin.html (if in U.S.) MSRP: US$24.95 (if in U.S.) Other Haynes sites in U.K., France, Sweden and Australia. Check out http://www.haynes.com/ WARNING: If the manual for my CM200T is anything to go by, Haynes assumes that you have a workshop of your own. Repairs are NOT as easy as they look! But the maintenance tips are eminently worthwhile. motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 46, "subject": "Microcars", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Wed, Oct 16, 2002 (17:35)", "body": "Wot, no interest? !!!!! !!!!!3 !!!!C:) !!!!!3 !!!!!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 16, 2002 (21:14)", "body": "Tell us about Microcars. What's the scoop, blob?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Thu, Oct 17, 2002 (00:22)", "body": "Right-o. The birth and development of the internal combustion engine brought revolutionary change to every mode of transport, the two most distinct of which are the carriage and the bicycle. The carriage became the automobile or motor car, while the bicycle became the motorcycle. Traditionally, motorcycles have been more frugal, less expensive (initially) and, consequently, more accessible. However, they are also less safe, less comfortable, and god-awful at carrying anything more than one or two people and maybe a pair of saddle-bags. There have always been those who have wanted the economy of a motorcycle combined with some of the safety and comfort of an automobile. However, there have really been only two \"golden ages\" when these people have made a big enough market for the manufacture of these compromises to be generally feasible. The first was in England and France, during and immediately after the Great War (First World War) which was the age of the \"cycle-car\", while the second was in Germany and Italy, about ten years after World War II, which was the age of the \"bubble car\" The WWI-era cycle-cars were, for the most part, flimsy contraptions that were not much better than the motorcycle/sidecar combinations that they competed with. Among the best of these was the GN of England, with an 1100cc V-Twin motorcycle engine and chain-driven rear wheels. The post-WWII bubble cars were generally much more solid designs, often with displaced aviation engineers developing them. The most famous of these were the Messerschmitt KR200 and the Isetta, designed and originally manufactured by Iso in Italy, but manufactured under licence by BMW in Germany, Romi in France, and other manufacturers in the United Kingdom and Brazil. The end of both eras came with the introduction of cheap small cars. In the mid- to late- '20s the Austin Seven, Morris Minor and Leyland Trojan effectively killed off the cycle-car, with the exception of the Morgan 3-wheeler which was closer in solidity of structure to the cars listed here than to the other cycle-cars. The bubble cars of the '50s, having competed against the more expensive but more useful Volkswagen Beetle, were fast becoming novelty items even before BMC brought out the Morris Mini Minor and its Austin Seven, Wolseley Hornet and Riley Elf variants. Once Europeans in general and Germans in particular became more prosperous, and could afford small \"real\" automobiles, it was bye-bye bubble cars! The energy crises of the 1970s and early '80s caused some to return to the microcar concept, and both energy conservation and environmental movements are influencing a re-thinking of personal transport. However, the market for single-seat transport modules like the Corbin Sparrow or Corbin Merlin might be limited by the fact that each of these models costs more than a Hyundai Accent... If a small, light, two-seat capsule (like the Messerschmitt KR200) were available at about the price of a mid-size motorcycle, I would definitely consider it."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 17, 2002 (08:23)", "body": "I think you are leading somewhere! What is that somewhere? I'm talking about the car of the century. The Mini http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/955500.stm After 41 years of continuous production and more than five million cars built, the classic Mini has come to the end of the road. Production of the compact car finished on Wednesday at the MG Rover Group factory in Longbridge, Birmingham. Sixties supermodel Twiggy is a fan There have been nearly 140 different models of the car since it was first introduced in 1959, as an economy vehicle in the wake of the Suez oil crisis. BMW will produce a new version of the Mini at the Cowley works in Oxford. Many of those involved in the production of the Mini across six decades attended the end of production ceremony at Longbridge on Wednesday. Sixties icon Lulu drove the final car off the production line. See http://www.miniusa.com You'll want one, blob. But you'll have to get on a waiting list. Most complete MINI review: http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?srv=parser&act=display&tf=/features/mvp/mini/cooper/cooper_overview.tmpl"}, {"response": 5, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Thu, Oct 17, 2002 (09:49)", "body": "There are hundreds of old Minis in Jamaica and probably one or two of the new ones by now as well. I was NOT talking about the Mini. I was more talking about this: http://www.messerschmitt.co.uk/images/kr200/down.jpg http://www.messerschmitt.co.uk/images/kr200/gto.jpg or this: http://www.isetta-owners-club-gb.com/bertie.jpg http://www.isetta-owners-club-gb.com/bircher1.jpg http://www.isetta-owners-club-gb.com/57-4.jpg I mean REALLY small stuff, things that are licenced as motorcycles."}, {"response": 6, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Thu, Oct 17, 2002 (09:51)", "body": "BTW, isn't the Car Of The Century the Model T? I can see where the original Mini would have tied with the original Volkswagen Beetle, but I don't see either being more significant than the T."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 17, 2002 (10:13)", "body": "What's the price tag on the above units? That' model isn't Twiggy though."}, {"response": 8, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Thu, Oct 17, 2002 (13:26)", "body": "Except for the Corbins, none of the above are in production now. They're from the '50s and '60s. I'd have to check out the marque clubs for their prices then and now. The clubs apparently exist 'coz no-one can find parts without them. motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 47, "subject": "Road Trip", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 48, "subject": "Harley Davidson", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "AlFor", "date": "Tue, Oct 14, 2003 (04:25)", "body": "Now that the centennary's over, the big news is that the Sportsters now have rubber-mounted engines. This should improve the ride without affecting handling much. If I had the money for a new Harley (I don't even have enough for a new Honda Nighthawk 250!) I'd buy a Sportster 1200 Roadster. It's a pity that they discontinued the XL883R, though. Triple discs and a dual seat with a 883 on a standard Sportster chassis would definitely get my attention, and would probably get my money too, if I had any. motorcycle conference Main Menu"}]}]}