{"conf": "politics", "generated_at": "2026-04-26T08:00:02.954878Z", "threads": [{"num": 0, "subject": "", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 1, "subject": "introductions", "response_count": 31, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "erin", "date": "Mon, Oct  7, 1996 (08:22)", "body": "terry HI,i am very new on the internet so i called magellan for chats ,i mean searched ;since i am a liitle bit conservative in language ,i decided to join this chat group, i do not have any web site yet, i am just learning internet, my parents come from yougoslavia ,but we are not serbians thank god,now i am staying in Turkey.good lovely friendly people;at least there is no shooting in T urkey, we are very greatful to USA for backing us up,"}, {"response": 2, "author": "erin", "date": "Mon, Oct  7, 1996 (08:24)", "body": "if i get lost i do not even how to know to find this chat room so please help me"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct  7, 1996 (15:08)", "body": "I'll drop you an email to remind you if I don't hear from you again in a while. Welcome!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "fuzz", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (11:37)", "body": "Hi, I'm Don from upstate NY. I am presently a full-time student enrolled in Professional and Technical Communciations in a 4 year school. I have many interests including politics."}, {"response": 5, "author": "ledfords", "date": "Thu, Oct 16, 1997 (22:48)", "body": "Hi! I'm a full time student studying political science and communications at the University of Michigan. I'm somewhat of a political junkie, particularly around election time. I am developing a greater interest in international issues, though. Right now the proposed expansion of NATO has peaked my interest."}, {"response": 6, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Oct 16, 1997 (23:36)", "body": "Hi, Sara, do tell more! WER"}, {"response": 7, "author": "ledfords", "date": "Fri, Oct 17, 1997 (15:34)", "body": "I'm very interested in the Senate debates on the future of NATO. I'd like to see what kind of issues they are going to bring up. Right now, I am of the opinion that the Eastern European countries should be included, hopefully it would help establish and/or stabilize democratic governments. However, you also have to consider the effects for the current members of NATO. Given that NATO is based on a pledge of collective self-defense the current members may be forced to honor that pledge since the area i fairly unstable right now. This may well be more than the members are willing to do at this point in time. What are everyone else's thoughts on the subject?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Oct 17, 1997 (16:07)", "body": "Obviously, in light of events this decade, NATO- as constituted originally- is obsolete. The question all member nations must answer is what the aims of this essentially new organization are- beyond \"collective self-defense\", of course, because that initial aim only made sense within the context of the old order of things. If the establishment and/or stabilization of democratic governments is the aim- and I agree, it ought to be- then the fledgling, terribly unstable democracies of Eastern Europe manife tly should be included. Do believe, though, that our approach should be cautious, indeed (pragmatically idealistic?)- and that consensus much be reached with all member nations to make it doable (and it is a tough sell)..."}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Oct 18, 1997 (00:08)", "body": "I agree, but will this give the American World Police Force more justification, and ultimately bring the One World Government into existence quicker? WER"}, {"response": 10, "author": "ledfords", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (15:44)", "body": "I don't necessarily agree that NATO is obsolete concerning all of its original purposes. Surely, the major purpose of security in during the Cold War is not necessary to the same extent as it was, but the issue of Russia's nuclear capabilities has not been settled. Also, part of NATO's function has been to allow German some form of defense that does not threaten its neighbors, especially France. Thus, Germany's military forces are all under NATO command and there is no direct German command structure. Without NATO Germany would have to be rearmed under its own command. Any proposal dealing with changes to NATO must take these factors into consideration. Based on this I would say that NATO cannot and should not be eliminated, but still needs to adapt to the post-Cold War international environment. I think that expansion of the membership and military subcontracting for the UN are the best way to do this."}, {"response": 11, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (21:34)", "body": "What you say is true, but these other functions are tangential to the real purpose NATO served- NATO defined the western bloc, was the necessary political answer to the Warsaw Pact (or vice versa, depending on where you sit). And most importantly- for the viability of it in fact- it served the needs of the United States, to maintain it's postwar presence- and, of course, to fascilitate American business interests throughout Europe. Do agree that NATO shouldn't be eliminated- just believe that achieving clear consensus of purpose among members is going to be a sticky proposition, at best..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "RUBI", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (18:49)", "body": "I really think it is a dinosaur in the current political and world environment. With the threat of highly regionalized conflicts in areas such as Africa and Asia a distinct possibility the defensive role that it has filled is no longer needed. In the event of a conflict in this theatre it would be on a much smaller scale than the WW3 all out confrontation that NATO was meant to counter. Past performance of NATO forces in smaller conflicts have been lackluster at best. The NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY ORGANIZATI N has seen better days."}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (20:17)", "body": "I've been wondering why we've had a bit of a spurt in the politics conference and today I picked up a book on Internet BBSs and there were several references to the Spring. They said it \"offers discussion on everything from the latest movies to intense political debate\" and called the Spring one of the \"great Internet messaging systems\" The book is 'Internet BBSs A Guided Tour' by Richard Smark."}, {"response": 14, "author": "ledfords", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (20:36)", "body": "I'd have to disagree with you SA. NATO has the only viable multilateral interanational military force. The UN certainly isn't up to par in that respect and has started to subcontract the military aspects of their operations to NATO. The WEU has the potential to become the military arm of the European Union, but it has not reached that capacity yet."}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (20:54)", "body": "I've opening a topic 7 on NATO and European poltics if you would like to use it."}, {"response": 16, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (23:20)", "body": "Congrats on the review, terry. WER"}, {"response": 17, "author": "rubi", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (04:42)", "body": "I guess viable is a relative term where you come from! In terms of viable military forces Nato doesn't even show up on the map!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "legaffe", "date": "Sat, Nov  8, 1997 (17:29)", "body": "So what's the conclusion, is NATO outmode?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (03:37)", "body": "No consensus reached, actually- topic gathered a little steam (see NATO topic), then sort of dried up. Where do you stand?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (03:37)", "body": "little tired of all the politiking about nothing in the media... thought I'd read (if not share) some intelligent opinions here! Hiya George! Long time, no reading your posts! *smile*"}, {"response": 21, "author": "budabob", "date": "Mon, Feb 16, 1998 (14:32)", "body": "DATE:JAN./ 1 /1998 Stop U.S.A. Cover up. FROM: Robert Moore, Minister Plenipotentiary; Phone: (808) 923 0476; Fax: (808) 923 0477 WORLDWIDE RELEASE: GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF ENENKIO IS SHUNNED BY THE US CONGRESS: Despite repeated overtures to the United States Congress and the Clinton administration for a peaceful settlement of claims, a state of war continues to exist over control of the atoll commonly referred to as Wake Island. The weapons employed in this \ufffdcold war\ufffd are pen and paper. The battleground is framed over a legacy of more than 2000 years of ownership, use and control by Marshallese ancestors of King Murjel Hermios, First Monarch of the Kingdom and Paramount Chief of the Northern Atolls of the Rata Archipelago. The battle formally began in 1993. Over the course of the decade, the Kingdom has established its autonomy by asserting allodial and traditional rights of the King under universal principles of human rights, the common law, international law and articles of the United Nations Charter. No threat has been made to the security of the United States and no resistance has been encountered. A similar atmosphere of disregard by world news and other media reverberates hollow. In fact, \ufffdde facto\ufffd recognition via correspondence from U.S. agencies nd officials and diplomatic recognition from foreign states during the past four years would fill a volume. URGENT CALL FOR FINANCIAL RELIEF TO END THE WAR: The government of the Kingdom is in possession of substantial assets it is willing to market to secure funding for peaceful settlement of the conflict with the United States. They are available to be used as collateral to secure a development loans or to be converted to negotiable financial instruments. Prime banks in Pacific Rim nations, Europe or South America are now encouraged to assist the government of the Kingdom with their development through one of the following: 1. Debt Collateralization - a very substantial debt has been perfected against the United States Department of Interior in the hundreds of millions (US). 2. Treasury Bill - a bill in the amount of 3.7 million (US) is available for immediate funding. 3. Contract Obligation - under a treaty with a South Pacific state, a contract was signed in which the Kingdom will receive 10% of all revenue derived from a major commercial and financial development project in the North Pacific. 4. War Bonds - the Kingdom has a program to issue bearer bonds backed by assets or gold and traded in world markets outside U.S. jurisdiction. 5. Gold Stamps - the inaugural issue of gold stamps is in the final stages of production. Several remarkably unique features are designed into the stamps to make them very collectible and affordable. Sales are based on daily fix on the New York exchange market for gold bullion. 6. Programs - specific developments include: a) international spaceport b) international free trade zone c) fisheries d) maritime services e) mineral exploration and recovery f) satellite and telecommunications g) nuclear waste eradication h) financial, trust and fiduciary services For more information, see the web site of the Kingdom: http://www.enenkio.wakeisland.org Please direct specific inquiries for particulars to the USA Legation of the Kingdom by phone or fax, or mail to Post Office Box 8441, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA 96830."}, {"response": 23, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Jun  7, 1998 (14:57)", "body": "don't know where else to put this, say this... 30th anniversary of bobby kennedy's death, few days ago... too self-involved or whatever to even remember, that day... friday, i guess... anyway, i loved him... and i hope people think of him a little... remember a speech he gave, in indiana i think... right after mlk was killed... something he said... about \"dedicating ourselves to what the greeks wrote about... to tame the savageness of man... and to make gentle the life of this world\"... goddamn it... i mean... anyway... i loved him..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (13:29)", "body": "It was a bad time. A lot of good people were killed."}, {"response": 25, "author": "AdamLipscomb", "date": "Fri, Jan 15, 1999 (21:51)", "body": "My name is Adam - I live in Austin, TX. About a year ago, I ran into Terry at Bruce Sterling's after the Computer Privacy Conference and logged onto the Spring the next day. I've been away from the Spring for close to 9 months. Just remembered it, and I'm back."}, {"response": 26, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Fri, Jan 15, 1999 (23:33)", "body": "hi adam. welcome back!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jan 15, 1999 (23:36)", "body": "Amen! Look around 'cause we've added some new conferences, topics, and posts since then..."}, {"response": 28, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Apr 19, 1999 (14:46)", "body": "I would like to invite regulars of this conference to visit the International Conflicts conference here on the Spring: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/InternationalConflicts/all This conference is dedicated to the disputes between groups all over the world, be that social, cultural, political or ethnical differences."}, {"response": 29, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Apr 12, 2000 (23:32)", "body": "Nothing much changes politically - the more they do the more they stay the same. However, reading these antique posts about Wake Island being used for weapon disposal...we should be so lucky. They decided on Johnston Island just a few hundred miles upwind of Honolulu!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "enenkio", "date": "Thu, May 18, 2000 (14:39)", "body": "Toxic Waste to be stored at Wake Island ADVISORY May 10, 2000: Honolulu, USA -- The United States Embassy in Tokyo, Japan announces shipment of TOXIC WASTE to Wake Island for \"temporary storage\". Text of announcement:\ufffd The Following News Release was issued by the Defense Logistics Agency in Fort Belvoir, VA on May 5, 2000: PCB Shipment to Wake Island for Temporary Storage The Defense Logistics Agency announced today that a shipment of waste material containing very low levels of PCBs (polychlorinated biphenyls) will be moved no later than May 18, 2000, from Japan to Wake Island until final disposition is determined. Wake Island is a possession outside the customs territory of the United States in the central Pacific Ocean approximately 2,000 miles from Hawaii. The island is three square miles in size and is staffed by approximately 100 contractor personnel supporting Army activities. Wake Island is currently being used by the U.S. Army as a missile launch support facility. The waste PCBs to be shipped from Japan resulted from ongoing efforts by the U.S. military forces to make its installations PCB-free, worldwide. These materials were manufactured outside the United States and used by U.S. military forces in Japan. By law, PCBs cannot be imported into the customs territory of the United States for disposal. Currently, there are no appropriate disposal facilities in Japan.\ufffd The material consists of items such as transformers, transformer oil, circuit breakers and small parts. It was tested at U.S. military laboratories and found to contain less than 50 parts per million PCBs. The Toxic Substance Control Act does not regulate for storage materials with concentrations less than 50 parts per million PCBs. The items are properly packaged and containerized to ensure safe handling, movement and storage. The Department of Defense coordinated closely with the Departments of State, Interior and the Environmental Protection Agency. DOD is committed to ensuring this material is handled and disposed of in an environmentally sound manner. The Military Sealift Command will transport this material. For further information, please call the U.S. Embassy Press Office on Monday, May 8.\ufffd [ENDS] Link to document at US site: http://usembassy.state.gov/posts/ja1/wwwhp029.html EnenKio Response: The Kingdom of EnenKio continues to promote the rule of law.\ufffd Within the vast resources of the United States, solutions to disposal of these toxic chemicals must abound, yet DOD wants you to believe that not only are they committed to environmental security, when the fact is that no assessment of the potential effects on the environment has been done in this case, but that Wake Island is the only viable option for storage.\ufffd\ufffd For more than 150 years, the US government has conducted operations in the Pacific region in secret and without opposition.\ufffd This operation is no different.\ufffd The US has even (recently) declared Wake Island (its real name is Eneen-Kio Atoll) OUTSIDE the customs territory of the United States.\ufffd This convenient declaration circumvents federal law banning importation of PCBs, and in one swift thrust thus, removes oversight by Congress, the media and the American People and grants carte blanche to the war lords of the United States Army and DOD.\ufffd\ufffd With the law out of the way, what constraints shall be used to ensure accountability?\ufffd How long will these materials sit at Wake before they are completely forgotten?\ufffd Does anybody remember the other incidents of re-locating waste to Wake?\ufffd EnenKio deplores this brand of lawlessness, condones oversight by US Congress, federal and international agencies and challenges opposed nations to have the courage to speak out against these acts as fundamental violations of maritime and international law. Eneen-Kio Atoll is currently a topic of dispute between our countries.\ufffd The king's claim of ownership to the atoll was fully acknowledged by our sister Republic of the Marshall Islands in 1989, is perfected by the Kingdom of EnenKio on paper and in US courts \ufffd the US has never formally denied the claim \ufffd and yet, the United States exercises its legendary commitments to upholding human rights and protecting the environment by shipping toxic waste to King Remios' islands! Well, no doubt this toxic shipment will join the rest of the toxic wastes, chemical and biological pollutants, nuclear and weapons materials dumped and stored there with hardly a whimper from the ignoble flocks of birds and turtles.\ufffd If the stuff is so benign, why has it been for months shipped back and forth across the Pacific and shuffled from port to port where ample facilities existed for handling?\ufffd And who is getting rich in the process? The United States must be prevented from carrying out its insidious plans to hide its mistakes at Wake, else will be born the idiom, \"Just Wake it!\" end \ufffd"}, {"response": 31, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, May 18, 2000 (14:58)", "body": "They are incinerating nuclear warheads at Johnston Island just 210 miles upwind of Honolulu, Hawaii. Wake is far away from everyone and everything - on a very finite globe. There is no easy answer to getting rid of the weapons of distruction we have created - what do you suggest we do with it?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "budabob", "date": "Tue, Aug 29, 2000 (17:00)", "body": "\" R H E T \" Remios Hermios Eleemosynary Trust 'YOKWE YOK' and WELCOME! We extend you a warm traditional Marshallese salutation of friendship, goodwill and we have the greatest respect for your decision to visit the Internet site of the Remios Hermios Eleemosynary Trust today. We wish your stay is pleasant, informative, thought-provoking and when you depart, please accept our gratitude for stopping by and may you go in peace! Kommol tada. Iroijlaplap Remios Hermios On behalf of the people of the Northern Ratak Atolls of the Marshall Islands, distinguished Mayors of island community Councils of Local Government in the Ratak atolls and visitors to our tiny remote islands in the sun, we thank you for visiting us today. The following documents and links are provided for your information and reference. Introduction to RHET Documents \ufffd History of the Islands Maps & Descriptions \ufffd Ratak Development Plan Present Status of RHET Photos & Lifestyles \ufffd Links to Sites of Interest HOME Updated: 07/07/2000 politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 10, "subject": "Jiang Zemin and China: business, culture and peoples rights", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (03:32)", "body": "Don't know much about Jiang, but assume he is at core an ideologue, as each past Red Chinese leader. There were pictures of him floating about made up like Thomas Jefferson (during a tour of Monticello or something). Heart warming... Have mixed feelings regarding what our posture towards China should be. On the one hand, I believe America should be uncompromising in it's advocacy of the cause of freedom- everywhere, every time, regardless of cost. True to the ideals that made us great, and all that (and I don't mean the Ronald Reagan definition of greatness- which is rather esoteric, actually, having something to do with the juxtaposition of total ICBMs, and people sleeping under bridges). On the other hand, it feels so RIGHT to be on the opposite side of any issue from Richard Gere..."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (09:45)", "body": "Now, how did Richard Gere slip in here? Isn't it the other way around, isn't Gere on the side of the oppressed, the downtrodden and buddies with the Dalai Lama? It's a tough issue. The Clinton strategy is to influence the Chinese by example. They, the Chinese, seem to have put a full court lobbying press on the White House."}, {"response": 3, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (00:33)", "body": "Okay, I'm appropriately chastened- not nice, I suppose, to pick on Gere, who is on the right side, probably, of this issue, and is undoubtedly only exercising his constitutionally protected right to speak his mind, and to encourage our minions in congress to do-the-right-thing. Still, he has about as much credibility as Shirley MacLaine among Unwashed- and every time he opens his mouth, he energizes a bunch of ditto heads (or some other bunch of cranks and numbskulls), and basically undoes that which he s trying to accomplish... And China is, indeed, a tough issue. While I don't necessarily agree with Clinton's policy, I do understand it, and it's hard to fault him for it, political realities being what they are..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (11:32)", "body": "Rob Schneider portrayed Gere all to well in this respect on the Tonight Show last week. It was classic. Side splitting."}, {"response": 5, "author": "Molelakehoop", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (19:28)", "body": "U.S. foreign policy always has been and always will be screwed up. It is hypocritical, uneven, and has nothing to do with American values such as freedom of press, freedom of religion, free elections, and the like. China is a great example. China is a communist country that we have most favored nation trading status with. Cuba is a communist country that we are waging economic war upon. We have American troops stationed in Saudi Arabia, protecting the Saudi Royal Family (a non-elected brutal regime). We continue sending millions of dollars to corrupt, brutal regimes in Central America. Israel gets billions of dollars from the U.S. as they continue their racist policies against the Palestinians. The CIA murdered Allende in Chile in 1973 to set up a brutal dictator who still remains in power. It seems that the only thing that matters in foreign relations is $$$. China has over a billion consumers. Cuba has only a few million. Saudi Arabia has oil. You get the picture. John"}, {"response": 6, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (21:25)", "body": "I agree with everything you said- differ only, I suppose, in expectations. By necessity, foreign policy must balance political ideals with political expedience. Too often, as a result, it is left to amoral Kissinger-types, or given to the identically amoral concerns of Coca Cola and I.T.&T. Such has it ever been..."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Molelakehoop", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (08:29)", "body": "U.S. foreign policy will continue as it has in the past. Overall, it is neither Democrat or Republican in its stature. The president, is held responsible should any flairup against U.S. economic interests occur. It is my opinion that the U.S. tends to take a negative outlook on foreign policy. Sure, the leader of a country may be brutal or corrupt, but the U.S. policy takes the approach that another leader could be worse. A strong dicatator or monarch that keeps their country under control, through whatever repressive means possible, will never find itself at odds with the U.S. The only exceptions to this are countries which are communist. Long ago, the U.S. has discovered that in many instances, an economic war is just as effective as an actual fighting war. Cuba is becoming a wasteland because of this policy. Normalization of relations with Cuba will never take place because of political reasons. The Cuban exiles living in Florida are all anti-Castro. These are the swing votes in an elector l rich state. No president would jeopardize losing the state of Florida to the other political party. Hence, the status quo remains in effect. John politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 11, "subject": "Iraq.  He's baaaaaaaaack!", "response_count": 10, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (10:28)", "body": "The cameras are off now. How much time are we giving them? A U-2 plane if flying on Monday and it could be fired on, it's a UN plane, bought and paid for by Ted Turner. This would have serious consequences. For CNN and the US. Suppose we find a cache of these heinous biological and chemical weapons, what would be the environmental consequences of taking them out. Meanshile, Saddam builds a fancy new palace while his people rot. And what about the coalition that Bush put together. Is it still there? And what about the middle east peace process, what will be the impact on this?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (00:51)", "body": "This entire business reeks. Don't mean to sound like Lyndon LaRouche, but did you really ever buy the Bush company line re: the reason we didn't take Hussein out the first time? You know, that his military people told him we'd achieved our objectives, it's time to go home, and all of that? Has their EVER been a military type (outside of George McClellan) that didn't want to fight- especially when he's been pretty much kicking ass, and taking names with impunity (even little Mac may have gone for that)? And all this business of, \"Would you want me to risk YOUR son, or YOUR daughter to capture Sadaam Hussein?\"- doesn't this seem just a wee bit cynical, in light of all the Panamanian sons and daughters (and mothers and fathers) Bush sacrificed to arrest Manuel Noriega?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (11:33)", "body": "We're good at picking on weaklings like Grenada and Panama. But what about Saddam and Iraq? What next? The U2 flew over safely today but it's not over yet."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Molelakehoop", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "The U.S. electorate somehow thinks Iraq should be bombed into the stone age just because they dare to thumb their nose at the U.S. The U.S. has to work through a coalition of other countries that don't quite get as worked up over Saddam thumbing his nose. Saddam does this to remain popular at home. Getting a coalition together for todays Iraqi threats are much more difficult than when Saddam invaded his neighbor. The issues today, in the eyes of the security council, are more of a shaded gray color than the black and white issues of the past. Saddam, being the cagy dictator he is, knows this. He is selectively singling out only the U.S. members of the UN inspection teams. Divide and conquer--an often successful ploy. Saddam is definately cast in the mold of Hitler, willing to sacrifice lives a will for little apparant reason. There are no easy answers. John"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (08:39)", "body": "It appears that the crisis in Iraq is now over. Of course--any leader like Saddam that uses \"human shields\", mercilessly murders thousands of its citizens with nerve gas as well as things we will never know--will always bear keeping a close eye on. This Hitler-like madman will unfortunately be a boil on the face of the world for years to come. What saddens me about this crisis is that Kuwait was dead against any U.S. military involvement. Saudi Arabia was totally silent and offered no U.S. support despite the fact that U.S. troops still \"guard\" the Saudi's from Iraq. The Arab countries appear to want the U.S. military when there butts are on the line (oops--this doesn't apply to the cowardly Kuwaiti's that left for disco's in Egypt when Saddam invaded) and want the U.S. out of the region all other times. The U.S. military as a paid mercenar for the rich Arab oil producing states is very distasteful. Personally--I find it to be totally un-American for the U.S. to be guarding a group of dictators such as the Saudi Royal Family. John"}, {"response": 6, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (09:16)", "body": "Well stated and true, unfortunately... Though, judging from our government's intermittant enfatuation with fascists, such behavior may be construed as being somewhat \"American\"..."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 24, 1998 (10:24)", "body": "Iraq is defying the inspection team again. Are you surprised?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "TIM", "date": "Tue, Nov 24, 1998 (11:33)", "body": "Nope, not at all."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 24, 1998 (11:38)", "body": "Neither am I. What's keeping Clinton from unleashing the dogs of war?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Dec 16, 1998 (18:51)", "body": "They off the leash again now... politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 12, "subject": "Clinton Presidency", "response_count": 74, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (01:10)", "body": "SEPARATELY, THE DRUDGE REPORT HAS LEARNED, INVESTIGATORS HAVE BECOME CONVINCED THAT THERE MAY BE A DNA TRAIL THAT COULD CONFIRM PRESIDENT CLINTON'S SEXUAL INVOLVEMENT WITH LEWINSKY, A RELATIONSHIP THAT WAS CAPTURED IN LEWINSKY'S OWN VOICE ON AUDIO TAPE. TRIPP HAS SHARED WITH INVESTIGATORS A CONVERSATION WHERE LEWINSKY ALLEGEDLY CONFIDED THAT SHE KEPT A GARMENT WITH CLINTON'S DRIED SEMEN ON IT -- A GARMENT SHE ALLEGEDLY SAID SHE WOULD NEVER WASH. CONTROVERSY SWIRLS AROUND TAPES OF FORMER WHITE HOUSE INTERN, AS STARR MOVES IN! **World Exclusive** **Must Credit the DRUDGE REPORT** Federal investigators are now in possession of intimate taped conversations of a former White House intern, age 23, discussing details of her alleged sexual relationship with President Clinton, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned. The tapes were made by a federal employee who has been granted immunity. MORE According to sources in and out of government, Whitewater independent counsel Kenneth Starr became involved in the situation when he received intelligence that senior administration officials may have offered federal jobs to a young woman in an effort to prevent stories from going public -- stories involving sexual episodes that allegedly occurred in a room off the Oval Office. \"Starr is not on the bimbo beat,\" one source close to the situation told the DRUDGE REPORT late Tuesday. \"He's looking at a potential for obstruction of justice charges.\" A breakfast meeting that took place at The Watergate Hotel has attracted the attention of investigators. The development has completely consumed high-level Washington, with Starr's investigators working past midnight in recent days. Developing..."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (02:31)", "body": "So, here's the deal. Either the gigs up for Clinton or for Starr. Someone's gonna bite the dust on this one. If she's copys that she had sex with Clinton or takes the Fifth, Clinton's probably going to have to resign. If Starr made this up, he's going to have to quit. It's time for a showdown at the OK corral."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (12:05)", "body": "It's apparent with pressing matters of war (Iraq) and peace (mideast), Starr needs to settle this quickly. With the tapes, it should be a clearcut case. As far as Iraq goes, a serious situation is brewing, to quote NY Times William Safire: \"In the Persian Gulf, preventive war is becoming more necessary every day. Saddam Hussein is producing his anthrax weapon for a clear purpose: to credibly threaten us with its use. When he gains the power of massive biological retaliation, our conventional and nuclear power becomes useless against him. If Clinton doesn't stop him now, the next President will face a far more horrific choice. \" We may be moving toward a major turning point in American politics. Has Al Gore's time come prematurely?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sat, Jan 24, 1998 (00:40)", "body": "i cannot properly describe my contempt, and my utter disgust, with kenneth starr... this tobacco mouth-piece, 'come moral arbiter of a nation... what manner of creature is this? i've been fascinated with politics for as long as i can remember (licked stamps, passed out bumper stickers for mcgovern in '72, when i was twelve)... and politics is, and has ever been, populated with sundry sleazy characters, little-big men occupying the fringes, and wreaking (temporary) havoc... sometimes managing- for a little while- to cause ordinarily thinking people to abandon common sense, and sometimes even a fundamental sense of decency (and fairplay), within the passion of a moment... but never have i seen (or could have imagined) the spectacle of american politics degenerated to this... the idea that we could lose our president because of the machinations of this supercillious, sanctimonious rat bastard sort of coursens the charm of politics for me, maybe for a long time... anyway, that's all i wanted to say, for now... well, i will say this- i would much sooner allign myself with a man possessing life, and passion (like jefferson, or franklin- or jack kennedy, for that matter, and bill clinton) any day than some dried-up, cold-blooded, milque-toast, walking-withered bag of bones like richard nixon, or ronald reagan (or ken frigging starr)..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 24, 1998 (02:30)", "body": "I would concur with your deprecation of Kenneth Starr. The whole thing smacks of a cheap \"sting\" operation to validate Starr's exisitence. After all, how else to justify the *** $30 million *** spent on special prosecution efforts over the last several years. One thing for sure, this is either Starrs or Clintons last gasp. And a 20something year old former White House intern holds everyone's future in balance. There is no doubt Starr went overboard in this sting operation to the point of detaining the intern for 9 hours without the benefit of an attorney. Well, it won't take much longer for all this to shake out. We'll see what turn this takes in a very few days, I suspect."}, {"response": 7, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sat, Jan 24, 1998 (03:25)", "body": "It appears that President Clinton--whether the allegations are true or false--is about to undergo some tough times. Impeachment--very doubtful. Forced to resign--doubtful. Bad PR--definately. While Presidents Clinton judgement has to be questioned (for putting himself in a situation where allegations such as this could occur), this is hardly a Watergate type situation. National politics certainly are the big leagues--everyone plays hardball. No slack is ever permitted. Clintons enemies are now at bat after hitting a home run. What will happen when President Clinton steps up to the plate is a matter of speculation. Hoop"}, {"response": 8, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sat, Jan 24, 1998 (19:38)", "body": "ken starr you rat bastard what feeds your soul, when you lie awake in the dark at 3am? are dead ideas enough for you then? do you wonder, these times as you toss and turn (in your rodent bed, rodent thoughts burning randomly through your pointed, rodent head) what gives you the f***ing right- you bloodless heartless ****less tool of narrow pig-eyed radio fools- to judge any real man? (maybe your wife, the poor starving bitch, should unleash some judgement on you)... an accident made you, little man... and venom has maintained you (but will it sustain you- the empty years ahead- alone in the dark at 3am?)... (i feel a little better now... not sure, however, this was quite vitriolic enough...)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Wed, Jan 28, 1998 (22:16)", "body": "will these nixonian bastards never go away? saw allen keyes on \"politically incorrect\"... redefining (as only one of those smug s.o.b.'s can) hypocracy, this former nixon lapdog actually had the audacity to wax moral about \"trust\" and \"moral decay\"... sheesh, will it ever end?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 29, 1998 (00:08)", "body": "Nope, it probably won't."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (04:15)", "body": "One thing is certain about the current \"scandal\". The majority of American people are not political partisans. People outside of Washington DC care much more about the Dow Jones than Paula Jones. Their is a great deal of respect given to the office of the president by the American people. Most Republicans (except for the far right & the religious right) even respect the office even though they may despise President Clinton. I predict the calls for impeachment will dwindle to whispers. The American people, even though they may dislike the current events, want this behind them. Most believe the press is spending far too much time on this sleaze. Hoop"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (05:28)", "body": "The whole thing smacks of a \"Big Lie\" concocted to put Clinton on the defensive. He has to use all his resources and energy in denial. It still all boils down to what Monica will ultimately say, yet she's a confirmed contradictory liar. Hillary seems happy, seems ok with all this, and, if she's so ecstatic, everyone else should back the **** off. The Big Lie of course being the perjury (not the sex). He may have had some sex but so what? None of anyone's business except Hillary and she seems to be having a good time. Bill got what a whole lot of folks want. He got what a whole lot of folks think about a lot (and don't get). He's the President, so his odds of getting it are much more than most. But most folks would have got what he got had they had the opportunity. Most folks don't want to hear all this trash publicly, privately they're digging it. It's the OJ syndrome in a different scenario all over again. Sex instead of death. Both captivate the public. And Clinton's job approval ratings continue to soar, by the time they haul him off in cuffs he should be up around 95% at this rate. And who knows what tomorrow will bring. It continues to move along at lightspeed."}, {"response": 13, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (05:42)", "body": "that's the truth... so much convoluted, bull**** reasoning going around, it blows my mind... if i hear one more jackass equate this with watergate, i'm gonna throw up... sheesh, does anyone remember nixon's secret police (the plumbers)? the undermining of the legitimate political process (the cannuck letter, all that don sagretti crap), bribing people for their silence (the slush fund, the watergate seven, etc...), etc... etc... and basically, what we're talking about, is driving a president from office because he allegedly told his alleged girlfriend to lie about an alleged affair... (sheesh!)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (05:42)", "body": "A lot of folks would lie about an affair, it's not in the same league as Nixons transgressions. Not even close."}, {"response": 15, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (05:42)", "body": "man. this is NOT where I wanted to go..."}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (05:42)", "body": "Comment of the day department, from Sebastian Mendler: The following possible scenario came out of this morning's office discussion: Here's the scene -- Clinton is irate at Saddam's latest chicanery, all the legal troubles, all the arguing with Congress; Hillary's been on the road for a book tour or something, and Clinton is in a sorry state. He begins thinking rash thoughts, looking at that Button on his desk, getting more and more agitated. Maybe he oughta call down some serious destruction on that creep! Yeah! That'd show him! Never mind possible escalations, and all the rest of it -- he starts to get himself really worked up with this idea. Then in walks Monica. \"Are you all right, Mr. President? Is there -- anything I can do to help?\" A few short minutes later, Clinton is much calmer, more level-headed, less prone to impulsive action -- as a matter of fact, he decides to take a little catnap in his chair while Monica cleans up, covers him with a nearby afghan, and kisses him gently on the head before tiptoeing out of the office. And World War Three has been averted. I mean, the point is, we don't **know**, maybe she's done service not only to the President, but to the entire civilized world..."}, {"response": 17, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (05:42)", "body": "*lol*"}, {"response": 18, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (23:41)", "body": "o my... Paul's gotten a bit too involved. *laugh*"}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 13, 1998 (03:54)", "body": "NACDLNewsRelease For more information: Jack King Public Affairs (202) 872-8600 ext. 228 media@nacdl.com Prosecutorial Coercion Violates DOJ Guidelines Family Values Imperiled When Mother Forced to Testify Against Child: Need for Parent-Child Privilege Washington, DC, February 13,1998 -- \"At no time before has the need for a parent-child privilege' been so clear as when America this week saw Marcia Lewis visibly shaken and trembling after her ordeal before the Washington grand jury convened by Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr,\" Gerald Lefcourt, President of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers said today. NACDL is calling upon Congress to create a new testimonial privilege to protect confidential communications between parents and children in the interest of preserving family relationships. Prominent New York City white-collar defense counsel Lawrence S. Goldman is in the process of drafting the model for such a statutory privilege on the Association's behalf. Goldman noted: \"The unseemly plight of a mother being forced to testify about her daughter's confidential and private conversations -- especially about something so sensitive as consensual sexual activity -- cries out for protective legislation. America is not a police state. If Congress is really concerned about family values, as it should be, it must protect one of those most basic of values -- a child's right to seek parental advice and guidance. Parents and children should be able to reasonably expect that the confidentiality of their private talks will take priority over any prosecutor's purported need to know.'\" \"Doesn't privacy and decency mean anything anymore?\" Goldman added, \"Just weigh the public good from a parent-child testimonial privilege against the untold damage from lost trust arising out of compelled parental testimony. We are fools to continue to tolerate this insidious abuse of the judicial system in America.\" Unlike the Independent Counsel, career federal prosecutors are directed to scrupulously adhere to U.S. Department of Justice guidelines set forth in the United States Attorneys Manual, which provide that \"[a]bsent specific justification, the Department will ordinarily avoid seeking to compel the testimony of a witness who is a close family relative of the defendant on trial or of the person upon whose conduct grand jury scrutiny is focusing.\" \"Close relative\" is defined as \"a spouse, parent, child, grandparent, grandchild or sibling of the witness.\" \"The problem, is, this is a DOJ guideline only, and doesn't protect citizens from maverick prosecutors who may have agendas of their own,\" Lefcourt said. \"Marcia Lewis's collapse in the grand jury room Wednesday more or less proves that the Independent Counsel's Office seems more interested in browbeating and badgering witnesses and their close relatives and friends rather than seeking the truth. Unlike the Independent Counsel, most federal prosecutors know where the line is drawn when it comes to their conduct,\" Lefcourt added. # # # NACDL is the preeminent organization in the United States advancing the mission of the nation's criminal defense lawyers to ensure justice and due process for persons accused of crime or other misconduct. A professional bar association founded in 1958, NACDL's almost 10,000 direct members - and 80 state and local affiliate organizations with another 28,000 members - include private criminal defense lawyers, public defenders, law professors and judges committed to preserving fairness within America's criminal justice system."}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Feb 26, 1998 (03:59)", "body": "Jack King is someone I talk to on the net fairly often. An *inside* to zippergate! Any questions I should ask jack?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar  4, 1998 (15:14)", "body": "Jordan's up to bat, does that mean Lewinsky's on the on deck circle?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "EmpZoltar", "date": "Sun, Mar  8, 1998 (01:19)", "body": "Far as I can tell, Starr has no case. He's given Lewinsky enough time to change her story more than once, which reduces her credibility to nothing. He appears to have leaked enough details of testimony to jeapordize the impartiality of any possible jury. He's blown $30,000,000.00 and change on a 20 year old land deal in which his prime suspects _LOST_ money. His only hope now is to leak enough damaging info to smear Clinton irrevocably. Despite the Right's protests, it _is_ about the sex. Otherwise, why would they focus on it like they do? A coworker of mine in one breath excoriates the president for his moral failings, calling him a \"ho\", and in the next, swears that she is only concerned about his honesty. This, from a person whose favorite president sold weapons to terrorists and used the profits to fund drug-running anticommunist terrorists in Central America, not to mention provided some aid to Saddam Hussein in his war with Iran Her second favorite president? Rotten Dick. Makes me want to puke. Who cares if Clinton gets a little on the side? Good for him! It's between him, Hilary and his partners. If he gets his job done (which he does) and doesn't hurt anyone, he could screw Socks for all I care. I expect my president to be human. That's all. Don't forget what the Right did to Jimmy Carter, the most Christian and honest President we've had since Lincoln. If honesty was that important to them, Carter would be on Mount Effing Rushmore!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Mar  8, 1998 (01:25)", "body": "Is this the most expensive blow job in history?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Mar  8, 1998 (04:56)", "body": "lol!!!!!!!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Mar  8, 1998 (05:21)", "body": "(DAMN, terry... i wasn't prepared for that)... did you hear the moron on \"politically incorrect\" other night rattling on about putting reagan on rushmore? i mean, can you believe it?...(and what you said re: the right's treatment of carter was dead-on, adam... it was shameful, and hypocritical... regardless of his shortcomings as president, he deserved far better than he received, esp. from those bastards... as an aside... 1980 was the first presidential election i was able to vote in... was living in mobile, al., at the time, and was a volunteer for ted kennedy... quite a humbling experience, i must say... i think we got maybe 9 votes, state-wide (but 5 of 'em in our precinct... needless to say, we were quite proud of ourselves)... acually, i've never picked a winner (though i did campaign for carter when i was in high school, after my guy was beaten)... anyway, volunteered for mcgovern in '72, mo udall in '76, kennedy in '80, gary hart (ouch!) in '84, and joe biden (double ouch!!) in '88... of course, i finally forego the process in '92 (though my choice would've been bob kerry) and my side (sort of) finally wins..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "EmpZoltar", "date": "Sun, Mar  8, 1998 (12:28)", "body": "I think that in politics, like many other areas, we Americans are guilty of too simplistic a view. Two parties - one good, one bad. Two political systems - Communism and Democracy. Conservative and Liberal. Everything in politics is relative - I mean, how else could Andrea Dworkin and Jerry Falwell see eye to eye on pornography? Barry Goldwater and the Lambda Defense Fund? The \"winner takes all\" system of vote counting has a lot to do with this. A thrid party, even if it has a plurality of the votes, can be diluted by districting so that it cannot win anything - what's wrong with this picture? There was a very interesting article in Mother Jones this month about the concept of proportional representation. There should be something about it at www.motherjones.com. This \"black and white\" way of looking at things worked fine when we were all hunter/gatherers running around the savannah, but it's a lot riskier when we have weapons that can vaporize cities. I try to look at the candidates for office and base my vote on the job I think they will do, even though it seems I almost always end up voting for Democrats, primarily because I feel that party has a better recent track record in the area of human and civil rights, although if a party of intellectuals ever present d itself, I might change my mind. Here's an interesting proposition for debate: What might happen if the old voting tests were reinstated, but applied fairly. To be eligible to vote, one must prove enough knowledge about American history and government to be able to make an informed decision. I think we'd have a lot of naturalized citizens forming the majority of the electorate. What might that do to the political scene?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "EmpZoltar", "date": "Sun, Mar  8, 1998 (12:35)", "body": "As near as I can tell, Carter made no more mistakes than most other presidents during their first terms. He was hamstrung by the Iranian hostage crisis (and I'm still not sure Reagan didn't negotiate the \"October Surprise\") and the recession, which was primarily the result of Johnson and Rotten Dick's escalation of Vietnam. Has Carter not been convinced by anticommunists in the State department to offer the Shah asylum, we might have avoided the whole hostage situation entirely. Carter also committed the cardinal sin in American politics, he addressed the American people honestly and pointed out the problems he saw (that whole \"Malaise\" speech)."}, {"response": 29, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Mar  9, 1998 (06:58)", "body": "yes, the \"malaise\" speech was a crucial error... compounded by some remarkably bad p.r. emanating from a series of gaffs (the hunting thing, where he was chased by a duck or something, the jogging thing, where he was photographed looking terribly weak and unpresidential)... the decision re: the shah was obviously a terrible miscalculation... but it was compounded, if i remember correctly, by the most terrible error of all (the ending of cia payoffs to iranian ayotollahs, which had been keeping the shah in power for years... carter thought the practice outrageous, an unconscionable subversion of the will of a foreign people... for a president, such idealism might be considered rather naive)... more than anything, though, i must agree that carter was a victim of a great many circumstances beyond his control (soaring energy prices chief among them)... however, in spite of all of these problems- in spite, even, of the high inflation and interest rates- carter may well still have won the election if he'd been a better politician... reagan was eminently beatable that year, and the election was still remarkably close, con- sidering... carter was not well-liked within his party, and was not able to prevent the primary challenge by kennedy, which a projection of strength (mixed with some old-fashioned political gamesmanship) would've prevented... and- idealism aside- all the good intentions in the world mean jack, if you can't get elected..."}, {"response": 30, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Mar  9, 1998 (07:33)", "body": "oh, re:\"proposition\"... have heard this idea come up time to time (and believe me i sympathize with the frustration that drives it)... yet... enticing as it is... it is not realistic, i think, to revoke someone's franchise based upon (theoretically) arbitrary standards of awareness... the basic criterion for participating in a participatory democracy must remain a willingness to participate, along, of course, with the inherent privileges attending the writer of the check (cannot expect someone paying taxes to forego their voice in how the monies are spent, no matter the estimation of their fitness to do so)..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "EmpZoltar", "date": "Mon, Mar  9, 1998 (16:52)", "body": "I myself don't necessarily approve of \"poll tests\", I was just floating a What-if. Let's just say that the Supreme Court ruled in the mid-sixties that poll tests were constitutional, but they had to be applied equally to all citizens. How might a policy of that nature have affected American politics in the 70's-90's?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Tue, Mar 10, 1998 (07:00)", "body": "well, first off... mississippi would've been left with about a dozen eligible voters..."}, {"response": 33, "author": "EmpZoltar", "date": "Wed, Mar 11, 1998 (02:32)", "body": "Let's leave my family out of this...."}, {"response": 34, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Wed, Mar 11, 1998 (04:26)", "body": "lol!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "EmpZoltar", "date": "Wed, Mar 11, 1998 (19:36)", "body": "Hmmmm. Trent Lott's statements, combined with the death of Jim McDougal and the desire of Jim Brock for some sort of redemption, indicate to me that, barring the discovery of a photograph of Clinton on the Grassy Knoll in Dallas, this farce may be winding down. I hope so - at my job, CNN is on 24-7, and I'm sick of hearing right-wing lackeys blather about it. The disloyalty shown by George Stephanopolis (sp?) is discouraging, also. I mean, I don't expect him to lay his life down for Clinton, but he could at least say, \"I don't think this is anyone's business but Bill, Hilary and Monica's.\" Clinton is the man responsible for almost all of the fame Stephanopolis enjoys today, and if he had any bolls at all, he would remember that before he shoots his mouth off. I can tolerate just about anything from people, but disloyalty is just, well, tacky."}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar 11, 1998 (19:50)", "body": "Yeah, I've been thinking that about Stephanopoulos also. Just cause he's a supposed objective tv commentator now doesn't mean he has to be a turncost."}, {"response": 37, "author": "EmpZoltar", "date": "Thu, Mar 12, 1998 (05:34)", "body": "I don't like tattletales. While objectively, I understand the need for the proper authorities to know when crimes have been committed, and recognize that narcing is a necessary evil, I don't like it. I don't know - if I saw a murder committed, I would definitely come forward, but I have a real problem with people like Linda Tripp & Ken Starr who seem to devote their lives to ferreting out the nasty secrets of anyone more successful than they are. I believe privacy is perhaps the most sacred right we ha e as human beings, and I don't like anything that violates that, for me or anyone else."}, {"response": 38, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, Mar 12, 1998 (07:15)", "body": "well-said..."}, {"response": 39, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Mar 12, 1998 (13:56)", "body": "turncost sb turncoat"}, {"response": 40, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, Mar 12, 1998 (16:25)", "body": "uhhh, what?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Apr  3, 1998 (03:54)", "body": "The Paul Jones case is dismissed by Judge Susan Wright in Arkansas. Not an April Fools joke, it really happened."}, {"response": 42, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Apr  3, 1998 (04:27)", "body": "now if only ken starr can be (summarily) dismissed... saw him (starr) few minutes ago, on the news... (ever notice that he drools? never trust a guy with wet lips)... anyway, pretty consistent with the conservative line i've been hearing past 24 hours (saw dick armey, several other idiots blathering about it last night)... brought to mind the immortal observation of hunter thompson, few years ago- \"in a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king\"..."}, {"response": 43, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, May 17, 1998 (05:22)", "body": "from the Spring 1998 issue of The Red Penn The Newsletter of the Socialsit Party of Pennsylvania Should Clinton be Impeached? So far President Bill Clinton has been accused of having extra-marital affairs with Geniffer Flowers and Monica Lewinsky, and for propositioning Paula Jones and Kathleen Willey. And there are still others he is accused of having sex with or asking for sex. We don't know if these allegations are true or not. Some of the members of our party believe the President and think these women are lying, motivated by money and a right-wing conspiracy to get the President. Others of us believe that the sheer numbers of allegations coming out tend to lend credence to the stories of these women. But even if they are true, should Clinton be impeached for them, or for lying about them and asking others to lie for him? The Paula Jones suit against the President was dismissed April 1, for failing to prove that it was truly a case of sexual harassment. She was not assaulted, and allegedly it was only a one time event, not a continuing pattern of harassment. It is difficult to see how anyone has been harmed other than Clinton's own reputation and marriage. The Constitution has not been subverted by these alleged acts, nor has the public truly been hurt. Even if he is lying and asking others to lie to protect his reputation, it doesn't seem to be in the same league as the Nixon coverup in the Watergate scandal. There are legitimate reasons to dislike Clinton - his betrayal of gays and lesbians with the \"don't ask, don't tell\" policy in the military, and his betrayal of the poor with welfare \"reform,\" among others. But it is doubtful that he has done anything worthy of an impeachment."}, {"response": 44, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, May 28, 1998 (05:35)", "body": "CLINTON DEPLOYS VOWELS TO BOSNIA Cities of Sjlbvdnzv, Grzny to Be First Recipients Before an emergency joint session of Congress yesterday, President Clinton announced US plans to deploy over 75,000 vowels to the war-torn region of Bosnia. The deployment, the largest of its kind in American history, will provide the region with the critically needed letters A,E,I,O and U, and is hoped to render countless Bosnian names more pronounceable. \"For six years, we have stood by while names like Ygrjvslhv and Tzlynhr and Glrm have been horribly butchered by millions around the world,\" Clinton said. \"Today, the United States must finally stand up and say `Enough.' It is time the people of Bosnia finally had some vowels in their incomprehensible words. The US is proud to lead the crusade in this noble endeavour.\" The deployment, dubbed Operation Vowel Movement by the State Department, is set for early next week, with the Adriatic port cities of Sjlbvdnzv and Grzny slated to be the first recipients. Two C-130 transport planes, each carrying over 500 24-count boxes of \"E's,\" will fly from Andrews Air Force Base across the Atlantic and airdrop the letters over the cities. Citizens of Grzny and Sjlbvdnzv eagerly await the arrival of the vowels. \"My God, I do not think we can last another day,\" Trszg Grzdnjkln, 44, said. \"I have six children and none of them has a name that is understandable to me or to anyone else. Mr. Clinton, please send my poor, wretched family just one `E.' Please.\" Said Sjlbvdnzv resident Grg Hmphrs, 67: \"With just a few key letters, I could be George Humphries. This is my dream.\" The airdrop represents the largest deployment of any letter to a foreign country since 1984. During the summer of that year, the US shipped 92,000 consonants to Ethiopia, providing cities like Ouaouoaua, Eaoiiuae, and Aao with vital, life-giving supplies of L's, S's and T's."}, {"response": 45, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, May 28, 1998 (15:35)", "body": "lol!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jul 12, 1998 (05:17)", "body": "WASHINGTON, DC--On Tuesday, Congress approved the Americans With No Abilities Act, sweeping new legislation that provides benefits and protection for more than 135 million talentless Americans. The act, signed into law by President Clinton shortly after its passage, is being hailed as a major victory for the millions upon millions of U.S. citizens who lack any real skills or uses. \"Roughly 50 percent of Americans--through no fault of their own--do not possess the talent necessary to carve out a meaningful role for themselves in society,\" said Clinton, a longtime ANA supporter. \"Their lives are futile hamster-wheel existences of unrewarding, dead-end busywork: xeroxing documents written by others, fulfilling mail-in rebates for Black & Decker toaster ovens, and processing bureaucratic forms that nobody will ever see. Sadly, for these millions of nonabled Americans, the American dream of working hard and moving up through the ranks is simply not a reality.\" Under the Americans With No Abilities Act, more than 25 million important-sounding \"middle man\" positions will be created in the white-collar sector for nonabled persons, providing them with an illusory sense of purpose and ability. Mandatory, non-performance-based raises and promotions will also be offered to create a sense of upward mobility for even the most unremarkable, utterly replaceable employees. The legislation also provides corporations with incentives to hire nonabled workers, including tax breaks for those who hire one non-germane worker for every two talented hirees. Finally, the Americans With No Abilities Act also contains tough new measures to prevent discrimination against the nonabled by banning prospective employers from asking such job-interview questions as, \"What can you bring to this organization?\" and \"Do you have any special skills that would make you an asset to this company?\" \"As a nonabled person, I frequently find myself unable to keep up with co-workers who have something going for them,\" said Mary Lou Gertz, who lost her position as an unessential filing clerk at a Minneapolis tile wholesaler last month because of her lack of notable skills. \"This new law should really help people like me.\" With the passage of the Americans With No Abilities Act, Gertz and millions of other untalented, inessential citizens can finally see a light at the end of the tunnel. Said Clinton: \"It is our duty, both as lawmakers and as human beings, to provide each and every American citizen, regardless of his or her lack of value to society, some sort of space to take up in this great nation.\""}, {"response": 47, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug  2, 1998 (14:25)", "body": "With Clinton scheduled to testify before the Grand Jury on August 17th it would appear all this is coming to some kind of final showdown. Starr is engaged in two processes here: a. the criminalization of lying b. the criminalization of sex There is a very interesting article in the New Yorker this week about this ( I don't have it handy to cite) in which they point out that there was once a distinction about lies according to degree of importance. Lying about having sex with someone is obviously on a different level than, say, lying about stockpiling biological weapons. This makes it easy for Starr to set a trap for Clinton by having Lewinski's testimony first and \"setting him up\"."}, {"response": 48, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (11:20)", "body": "from Dennis Wilen mailto://thevoidmstr@well.com monica as if by warhol, leictenstein, etc.: if the president bubba/starr transcripts were chat room transcripts, they'd look like this (javascript) this is absolutely brilliant, imho, not only in the technical sense, but the perfect choice for the presentation, and hysterically well written. tell yer friends!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (15:38)", "body": "Lewinsky and Clinton have shown What Kaczynski must surely have known: That an intern is better Than a bomb in a letter Given the choice of how to be blown."}, {"response": 50, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (16:09)", "body": "That feedbag simulated aol chat room has a particpant named algore2k"}, {"response": 51, "author": "a1a1a", "date": "Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (09:10)", "body": "Is Monica really that ignorant? Could she be a set up to splash Bill with mud? Does conspiracy come to mind? Are Grand Jury proceedings not supposed to be private? Wait till the investigation of Ken Starr's group is done. Will it take 30-40 million to find out who leaked information from his office. Will we find out? Probably not, sad to say. Somebody has commited a felony in this mess and maybe they should look at the prosecutors office. Let's slap Ken on the hand, tisk, tisk. Then let foolish politicians toss the president to impeachment for extra marital fooling around. Government is out again, politics runs amuck. God help the U.S. of A. United we stand.....Divided we fall !"}, {"response": 52, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (15:01)", "body": "Hey, welcome Tom! What part of the world do you hail from?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "a1a1a", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (07:25)", "body": "I hail from a little state called Texas and in a hamlet named Austin. Every heard of them ? {If not, I have heard of it refered to as \"god's\" country) Keeping with the subject of the Clinton, why are so many intent on tearing down our president? Would not a little more positive, constructive, productive support from the masses produce possibly better results? I wonder why Clinton doesn't visit Austin, except for $ 1,000 plate dinners? What ever happened to government being accessable to the \"people\"?"}, {"response": 54, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (10:21)", "body": "Now there's one thing you can't accuse Clinton off. The man is so accessable to the people, he literally gets into their mouths, so to speak...."}, {"response": 55, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (13:05)", "body": "Hey, I live in that little hamlet too, Tom. Glad you're joining us, (hope you're joining us)."}, {"response": 56, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (13:32)", "body": "You Texans seem to attract one another like a bunch of flies!! Wonder what that makes the spring...."}, {"response": 57, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (16:53)", "body": "from Time online: Here's the deal the White House would dearly love to get away with: President Clinton cops a plea of perjury, Congress censures (rather than impeaching) him in return, and the nation moves on. It's a possibility implicitly if not officially recognized by top Democrats, who finally seem to be reading from the same script again. Tom Daschle and Dick Gephardt both declared their impatience with Clinton's legal \"hairsplitting\" Monday; Gephardt called on Congress to use \"common sense for the good of the countr ,\" while Daschle spoke of a \"prompt, appropriate conclusion in the public interest.\" White House spokesman Jim Kennedy, for his part, made it clear that only a thin line of lawyers stood between the President and an admission that he committed perjury. \"No legalisms,\" said Kennedy, \"should obscure the fact that it was wrong.\""}, {"response": 58, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (19:46)", "body": "The Lewinsky business is yuksies, but, $hit, aren't Americans used to anything? In places like France people would react like the Yankees do with Clinton, only if the president DIDn't have affairs etc. etc."}, {"response": 59, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 16, 1998 (21:35)", "body": "The American media and the prudish GOP Congress are *hard up* and starved for an issue. Europeans must this is a joke. He's definitely trying to redefine the definition of sex. By the way, our new user Kristen has traveled in Switzerland and has some interesting comments about her travels there."}, {"response": 60, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep 17, 1998 (03:24)", "body": "Has she posted them anywhere?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 17, 1998 (05:31)", "body": "Not yet, ask her in babes! I think she's at work right now. Man, our house a/c went out and I had to order a new thermostat tonight. I need to ask her to call her dad, who's and energy specialist, and get a recommendation for an a/c repair man. I order a bi-directional X10 thermostat which is operated via remote and reports back temperatures. And it has remote wireless sensing. Ordered by next day air tonight. Eventually, you can add a sensor to read the pool temperature. I expect it will pay for itself in a few months. Luckily, for Kristen, she has her own window unit."}, {"response": 62, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Tue, Nov 10, 1998 (00:18)", "body": "on a different note... the most gratifying occurrence to come from this... um, whatever the hell this clinton mess is... must surely be the oh so sudden demise of the boy speaker from georgia (gingrich con)... he will not go quietly, i'm sure, but at least he will go, and that is a good thing, i suppose... does anyone else have the feeling there's more here than meets the eye? (not to newt-boy... to his sudden resignation, etc., i mean)... anyway, his is among the most twisted and cynical of careers, in a town that reinvents twistedness and cynicism as rote... he's lee atwater (without a tumor to blame it all on... or a sense of rhythm, for that matter)... a fat-ass scoop of vanilla that accepts blow jobs from his best friends wife (now there's a lady crying for help), tells his wife he's divorcing her while she's in a cancer ward fighting for her life, abandons his children (his ex-wife's church took collections to assist in their care- while ol' newt was a congressman)... etc., etc.... while lecturing the rest of us about morality and responsibility... the most hideous gingrich-con of all, though, is this idea of Newt-As-Revolutionary... newt as jefferson or something (or is that non-pc now? to mention tj in a favorable context? a subject for another day)... this idea is patently false, and history will bear that out whenever it burps ol' newt's name (which won't be often)... cannot understand how the media blathers on with this nonsense like it's incontravertable fact (were bob taft or richard nixon or joe mccarthy revolutionaries, too? they also were mean hypocrites that 'changed the political landscape' by exploiting the fears/prejudices/paronoia of people that should've known better)... beneath the hyperbole (and there are rolls of it all about him), gingrich is an old-fashioned opportunist, and his ideas are of the reconstituted variety... jefferson said it better (he said everything better)... \"(i am against) awing the human mind to a distrust of it's own vision... & to repose implicitly on that of others; to go backwards instead of forwards to look for improvement; to believe that government, religion, morality, & every other science were in the highest perfection in ages of the darkest ignorance, and that nothing can ever be devised more perfect than what was established by our forefathers.\" inventing new words, applying new motivations, charting different courses for achieving the same (previously occupied) landscape is reactive, and those adhering to it reactionaries, no matter the spin- and that's how newt-boy will be remembered (which ain't much... such is the sad fate of that ilk)... anyway, good riddance, newt... (jim wright is smiling now)..."}, {"response": 63, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Sun, Dec 20, 1998 (04:44)", "body": "the impeachment has happened. anyone care to discuss the implications of this? will there be a trial? a deal made? or will the president resign? is this a case of the people punishing the president for his crimes, or is it just republicans out to get the president for whatever reason?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Dec 20, 1998 (08:22)", "body": "think i'm leaving the states none to soon... this wave of hypocracy enveloping the political debate in this country is revolting to me... politics isn't fun anymore... it is mean, crude, corrupt- look, i'm not a particular fan of bill clinton's... but this just beats all... this generation of (mainly) white (mainly) southern male political hacks (lott, gingrich, armey, faircloth, et al) is representative of a broad prevalent mean-spirited judgementalism among their lookalikes/soundalikes in every walk of american life... i deal with these bastards all the time... know them to be what they are, reactionaries and bigots and the lowest form of hypocrites... it's just sickening, and it's gonna get worse"}, {"response": 65, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 20, 1998 (11:22)", "body": "Did you catch the Democratic walkout? I was putting up an antenna today and just caught a glimpse of the Democrats walking out of the House of Reps. Since they didn't get their censure motion. And I was heading to Radio Shack when Livingston asked Clinton to resign, then a chorus of Democrats shouted \"you resign!!!\". Then he did. The Republicans are in frenzied, disarray."}, {"response": 66, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Tue, Feb  2, 1999 (03:21)", "body": "this is from an article written by claire douglas, from this sunday's washington post.... (can anyone find trent lott or tom delay within this description?) \"...The mostly Republican Senate, meanwhile, plays the puer's opposite--the senex. This is the dried-up old man (of any age) who has often let life pass him by and who has settled for mental constructs, laws and generalities instead; he pontificates rather than feels or acts. The senex comes from a father-dominated household in which he is instilled with rigid tenets of law and duty, and he over-identifies with his father's world. Above all, he armors himself against any awareness of what he is missing. T e senex becomes a master of projection--what he refuses to recognize in himself he decries in others. His greatest sexual arousal comes from outrage at others' sexuality, and he displays a pornographer's interest in examining what are, in his eyes, the delicious minutiae of others' sins. Anyone who gives up his life to hard work and duty risks, at some point, the problems of the senex--the greatest of which is a rigid adherence to the letter of the law and a lack of empathy. Hatred becomes a respectable virtue; an inability to love becomes a common failing. In this light, there is something almost familiar about the situation in Washington. Waves of senex energy have occasionally swept this country in the past. The witch hunts of Salem were fueled by it, as was former senator Joseph McCarthy's use of his office as a bully pulpit to conduct a witch hunt of his own. One man fueled by righteousness (now Kenneth Starr) can focus this energy and sweep many of this type along with him in an orgy of investigation of others' wrongdoing...\""}, {"response": 67, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb  2, 1999 (12:33)", "body": "Soon it will be over and maybe the country can focus on some real issues."}, {"response": 68, "author": "AdamLipscomb", "date": "Tue, Feb  2, 1999 (14:00)", "body": "Unless Ken Starr actually has the nerve to indict Clinton. Is this guy for real? Where the hell does he get off? I mean, he's assaulted attorney-client privelege, supoenaed a bookstore for records of a private citizen's purchases, forced a mother to testify against her own daughter, and now he thinks he can indict a sitting president? I think we need to seriously reconsider the Independent Counsel Statute before we move much further as a nation. Starr in no way had the prosecutorial experience neede to serve in the OIC, and we won't even go into his numerous conflicts of interest. Don't get me wrong - I think we need some investigative body that is not beholden to the individual they are investigating, but the law as it stands now provides no restraint for an out-of-control maniac like Starr."}, {"response": 69, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb  2, 1999 (22:48)", "body": "Well said. This guy is clearly out of control. Like Bill Maher said, when Starr and the Republicans finally get Clinton in the electric chair and get ready to pull the switch, Clinton's job approval rating will finally hit 100%."}, {"response": 70, "author": "AdamLipscomb", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (07:12)", "body": "I hate to say it, but as long as the R's are digging into Clinton's sex life, I'm all for Larry Flynt exposing their hypocrisy. The only difference between what he's doing and what LuciAnne Goldberg is doing is that she's a \"literary\" agent, and he's a pornography publisher. I say that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I still wonder about Ken Starr - anyone hacked his internet access? Wonder what dirty sites he looks at...."}, {"response": 71, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, Feb  4, 1999 (00:16)", "body": "is the tobacco connection lost on the news media? if anything smacks of conspiracy (as is constantly alluded to, but never seriously explored), it is that thread... bill clinton is the most serious enemy the tobacco companies have ever encountered in the white house, and he came into power at the most inoppertune moment imagineable (for them... coincident with all those damning files of evidence that began falling into researcher's laps a few years ago)... clinton has been accused (often, rightly) of lacking political convictions... but i think it is safe to say that he genuinely hates the tobacco companies, feels real passionate anger about the damage they have wrought upon millions upon millions of human beings this century... the original independent counsel, robert fiske, a moderate republican of some reputation, was viewed with distrust by the rabid element that has held the republican party captive the past couple of decades... the appointment of starr, a tobacco whore, came at the behest (upon none other than the striped chief justice, william renquist) of... jesse helms and launch faircloth... senators from north carolina... (the cradle of tobacco whores)... along the way, after the lewinsky business began to unfold, the tobacco connection was evident in several of the unseemly interest conflicts (among referring/advising/manipulating attorneys) along the way... now, i'm not claiming there is evidence of 'conspiracy'... (nor even that any exists, at least in any proveable sense)... however, inferentially, one could come to this conclusion... and the evidence, it seems to me, is just as sound here as it is for any proof of obstruction of justice or perjury committed by clinton..."}, {"response": 72, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Feb  8, 1999 (05:13)", "body": "let's see... bob livingston, henry hyde, newt gingrich are serial adulterers... bob barr is not only that, but a subjorner of abortion, as well... and tom delay is a perjurer (as are william renquist and clarence thomas)... (reminds me of a scripture- \"woman, where are your accusers?\")"}, {"response": 73, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Feb  8, 1999 (05:16)", "body": "-except, of course, for the fact that this bunch doesn't have the sense of shame to slink away, unlike the hypocrites christ was referencing..."}, {"response": 74, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Feb 12, 1999 (16:55)", "body": "I know, not relevant to present discussions, but... \"I believe that this country's policies should be heavily biased in favor of nondiscrimination.\" --President Bill"}, {"response": 75, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Dec 15, 2000 (22:28)", "body": "This was too priceless to pass up. The Rolling Stone printed this notice today on their website: CORRECTION: Due to a transcription error, the words \"don't ask\" were printed in the latest issue as \"dumbass\" in our interview with President Clinton. We regret the error. I'm not kidding, I didn't make this up. Honest. http://entertainment.msn.com/music/features/clinton_interview.asp"}, {"response": 76, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Jan 20, 2001 (17:28)", "body": "Did Clinton free Leonard Peltier? politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 13, "subject": "conspiracies of all flavors", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 13, 1998 (12:23)", "body": "From: http://www.sightings.com/political/clinton2.htm CLINTON HAS A CLONE!!!!! By Sherman H. Skolnick Long whispered about, a file now has surfaced from the KGB, the secret police of the former Soviet Union. Several commentators have the file and are silent cowards. Some declare the death of network broadcaster Brit Hume's son is linked to this. Was it murder or suicide? The KGB file shows that the person identified as or calling himself William Jefferson Clinton has an exact double, except for a few details such as a recently removed mole and distinctive private parts. Hey: Do Paula Corbin Jones and Monica Lewinsky know the truth? For some 70 years, Russian scientists have perfected ways to create doubles. Mass media items about animal clones may be the way the press fakers skirt around the truth. And who publicly condemned the idea of manufacturing humans? Why, the alleged Clinton. (Which \"Clinton\" made the public statement?) The KGB file details the relationship of the alleged Clinton -- actually the alleged CLINTONS, plural -- with the Czechoslovak Communist Party Chief's son in Prague and at Oxford. The KGB threw junior off a roof to his death (the file gives the grisly details) because he discovered about the clone. The file, step by step, gives the chronology of how the alleged Clinton was groomed from an early age by both the CIA and the KGB. Useful was his split personality syndrome which often makes \"Clinton\" forget who he is and makes him not know murder from love. With young \"Clinton\" supposedly under =his= wing, the CIA Station Chief in London went along, hoping to unravel KGB methods, the file asserts. The alleged Clinton was tracked as he attended anti-war rallies in Europe -- set up by the American CIA but actually by KGB. Sort of a series of Chinese trick boxes. ...and much, much more."}, {"response": 2, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jun 26, 1998 (12:12)", "body": "WASHINGTON (AP) -- Viewers will no longer need to rent Oliver Stone's movie to see the haunting 26-second home film of John F. Kennedy's assassination. Soon, they'll be able to have the real thing. Starting in August, video stores will sell copies of the film the late Abraham Zapruder, a Dallas dressmaker, shot as the president's motorcade moved through Dallas on November 22, 1963, The Washington Post reported in Friday's editions. The 45-minute production is in color and features historical narratives, interviews and a look at the filmmaking process. It will cost $19.98 for a VHS cassette and $24.98 for a digital video disk. The digitally enhanced version is clearer than the copies used in documentaries and movies though the years, experts say. \"The first time I saw it, I literally gasped -- because it's so shocking,\" Waleed Ali, president of MPI Home Video, told the Post. The company, based in Orland Park, Illinois, is producing the video. \"The clarity is breathtaking. This is literally as crisp and clear as the original in the vault.\" The decision to make the film available on video comes as the Zapruder family continues sparring with the government over how much the original is worth. The original Zapruder film considered a key piece of evidence in the investigation of Kennedy's assassination, and it has been stored in a National Archives film vault since the 1970s. The family maintained the rights throughout the years. But last year, a government board declared that the film was the possession of the people of the United States, and said the government would determine how much to compensate the family for its rights. The Justice Department has offered the family $750,000 while indicating that the upper range might reach as high as $3 million. The family is seeking $18.5 million. politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 14, "subject": "Susan Lee Solar - candidate for Governor", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "EmilyNghiem", "date": "Fri, Oct 30, 1998 (00:07)", "body": "(1) In general, I believe campaigns should be used to educate the public, so that the media time is used effectively, independent of the outcome of the election. I would rather see billboards with the First Amendment on them instead of the name of a candidate. (2) I would like to see the next President/Vice President come from different parties, but who agree to campaign and work together as a team so that everyone is represented somewhere in the administration. I think it is unconstitutional to oppress people's rights by imposing the leadership of one candidate on those who morally or religiously oppose. I feel policies and contracts should be made and enforced freely by consent, so that the function of government is mainly to facilitate, not to dictate, tha process, and that people remain free to choose their own mediators, facilitators, consultants, etc. depending on the particular issue at hand and what knowledge or connections are required to address it. (3) I believe in an isocratic process of government, where people are respected equally regardless of their political or religious affiliations, and may freely govern themselves under the institution(s) of their choice. As it stands, only those in the political majority will be fairly represented by the vote. I don't see why the Democratic, Republican, Libertarian, and other parties can't govern themselves under their own nonprofit administrations and only use the federal system for where all parties ag ee -- which would probably reduce the government to just the public library, the Internet, the postal service, and basic facilities. I think this would reduce the burden on the central government, eliminate a lot of bureaucracy and complications, and end the competition over which policies to fund since everyone would be free to fund their own and would no longer be forced to fund otherwise. Emily Nghiem www.houstonprogressive.org politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 15, "subject": "Jessie \"the body\" Ventura", "response_count": 6, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov  9, 1998 (17:32)", "body": "The weirdest race of this year's election Jesse (The Body) Ventura WON the Minnesota governor's race. Not just doing well, he's won, as an independant. The democrat was Skip Humphrey, Hubert's son. Record numbers of voters at the polls in Minnesota today. Lines for registration were consistently longer than the registered voter lines. Ventura, who has the worst grammar I've heard this side of the Mississippi, is leading 37% to 32%/30% of the Republican and Democrat candidates. He spent $300,000 on this campaign (compared to the millions of his opponents), traveled all over the state driving himself (mostly), and has (for two months now) only one full-time staff member. Some would like to blame the full moon, but I think it's all those newly registered voters he inspired, frankly. The folks at the polls in my town tonight told me that they had never had such a high voter turnout, even during presidential election years. Ventura ran on the Reform Party platform. Everyone expected Skip to win. The last week or so, Ventura began moving up in the polls from 18% up to the high 20-something%. The DFLers and IRs appear to be in shock. Ventura corrected Tom Brokaw when Brokaw asked if he wanted to be called Governor Ventura or Governor \"The Body\". Ventura said he changed the moniker to Jesse \"The Mind\" Ventura.... Ventura just gave his acceptance speech. Neither Humphrey nor Coleman have formally conceded. The jokes are flowing while House Majority leader remarked that fear is starting to sink in. \"Nobody knows what to expect.\" One piece of info about Minnesota's Governor-elect Jesse Ventura: Yes, he was with the Reform Party -- but national Reform Party officials reportedly declined to provide much in the way of actual support. Let's put it this way: Ventura's campaign cost him $300,000. He put out some of the finest tv commercials that he's seen in a long time -- especially the summary of what he believes in, which apparently included lower taxes, a strong public school system, and his belief that Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones are two of the greatest bands of all history. Sounded remarkably like a snippet from \"Bull Durham,\" apparently.) Doesn't sound like much of that money came from Reform Party purses outside Minnesota, at least at this report. Scuttlebut has it that the national Reform Party people were kinda leery of Ventura -- they may have underestimated his chances, they may have objected to his grammar (hi, -- don't worry, his lietenant guv will get after him right away! she's a schoolteacher, 40 years experience reportedly), or they might have thought that if he won, it might make Mr. Perot look kinda, um, unsuccessful or something. Tom Brokaw asked Ventura if this Minnesota governorship was a stepping stone to larger national races. Ventura said no, that he had watched Presidents, and noticed that when elected, they looked young and virile, but after four years, they'd aged about twenty. He said he'd stick with Minnesota. Ventura, in City Pages Sept 30, 1998: \"I am a rock'n'roll guy. Warren Zevon, \"Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner\"; I very much love Warren Zevon's music, not a great message but a definite message. CP: He seemed to be better when he was drinking. Ventura: Well, I'll tell you another statement; I think that rock'n'roll was better when they were doing drugs. They are all cleaned up now and you are not getting near the artistic merit you were getting in the '60s and early '70s. Governor Ventura represents the nightmare professional politicians of both parties have feared for years -- the return of the non-voter. Almost everything the parties have done for the last 30 years has been aimed at three things: (1) turn out your own base; (2) romance the \"swing\" vote (ingrates that they are); and (3) suppress all the rest, especially those who tend not to vote or even register anyway. I hope Jesse Ventura is less of a goofball than he appears to be. This is right out of Howard Stern territory, which may be fun but is also more than a bit dangerous. Ventura seems to be sort of a libertarian-populist. He'll probably be a disappointment--inexperience plus a passive attempt to sabotage him by the Demopublicans, but it's one of the very few bright spots this time around for third parties. Karen worked as a surveyor in Brooklyn Park during the time Ventura was mayor there and spent a lot time at city hall. I thought that despite Ventura's somewhat feral approach that he appealed to the working public. The police departments were very skeptical about his rhetoric until he began spending his Saturday nights riding in police cars to see firsthand what street crime was all about. Even his fiercest critics conceded that he's smart enough to institute policies that work as well or better than the status quo. Interesting does not even begin to describe this administration. If he can keep his ego in check, he might actually prove his critics wrong. His wife, btw, is a tireless advocate for special educ"}, {"response": 2, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Nov  9, 1998 (18:43)", "body": "i am reserving judgement re: ventura/janos (whatever the hell his name is)... i was a fan of hubert humphrey's, in many ways... he was a good man, who embodied much of what is best (and much, too, of what is worst) in american politics... that being said, skip humphrey is easily one of the most boring politicians i've ever encountered (and that's a pretty select group)... (and what's this with a grown man going around calling himself 'skip'? he looks to be about 60 years old or so... should at least refer to himself as 'skipper', don't you think? just a little more dignified)... anyway, very interested to see what becomes of the big lug in minnesota..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (13:38)", "body": "If we are not the laughingstock of the world already, first an actor for president, now we have a clown in the white house and a professional wrestler as governor of Minnesota!!!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "EmilyNghiem", "date": "Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (13:38)", "body": "No, I disagree with Tim about being a \"laughingstock\". If the guy is sincere, then that is a vote for honesty, as opposed to electing people who say one thing and then do something else which to me is more shameful and embarrassing to the voters. The whole reason the latter keeps happening is that politicians are pressured to answer to what their image looks like and what their agenda sound like -- not what really works in practice. So this guy may be one of the first in a wave of real people giving re l answers -- even when it's \"I don't know. Let's find out.\" which I think is a healthy approach to any decision or situation. Overall, I think it shows a move toward *less* dependence on \"elected\" leaders to run the government, and a shift toward people governing themselves. No matter who is occupying any particular office, it's still the schoolteachers, the basketball coaches, the Boy Scout leaders, the secretaries and librarians, etc. that keep the community and the world going. We need to acknowledge the leaders all around us, and not put excessive importance on one position over another. That is the first step toward trea ing people as equals, in keeping with both church and state standards on \"loving our neighbors as ourselves\" and \"equal justice under law\". After all, can you really have \"equal rights\" in a system where people outside the government give up their power to people inside government? If we are going to have true equality, true respect for all people equally, we need to humanize the government, to quit putting officials on pedestals as if they are supposed to \"represent\" anyone else but themselves, and to ore evenly disperse the powers and responsibilities among the people themselves. Otherwise, if we keep bowing down to figureheads who \"look\" like this image or that, how are we ever supposed to get any real work done? Emily Nghiem Houston Progressive Webzine www.houstonprogressive.org"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 1999 (22:51)", "body": "Well, Jessie's back in the news, he said somehting in Playboy about religion being an opiate for the masses. Oct. 1 \ufffd A storm of criticism battered Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura on Friday after publication of a Playboy magazine interview in which he called organized religion \"a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people.\" Reform Party Chairman Russ Verney told NBC News that Ventura \"should remove himself from the Reform Party\" and added that \"our members are outraged.\" You can't say Jessie doesn't speak his mind or decide what to say based on opinion polls, like a lot of politicians."}, {"response": 6, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 1999 (23:02)", "body": "He also said that the Navy's \"Tailhook\" scandal was \"no big deal.\" He is not a politician. He says what he thinks, whether you like it or not. In your face honesty is seldom appreciated, so I have to hand it to those \"You betcha\" Minnesotans who struck a blow for openness in government by electing someone that whether for bad or good, will not lie to them. politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 16, "subject": "The Impeachment of a President", "response_count": 9, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 22, 1998 (09:47)", "body": "I find this email on the subject of impeachment very worthwhile: ON IMPEACHMENT Thomas Nagel Professor, New York University, School of Law Foundation December 14, 1998 Yesterday Henry Hyde compared himself to Jesus Christ in his indifference to public opinion. This is a revealing comment on his conception of the role of Congress in our national life. The inquisition pursued by Kenneth Starr, and the drive toward impeachment by the Republican majority in Congress, are not only violations of legal and constitutional standards. They are also part of an assault on one of the most important values of a free society, the value of privacy. The majority on the House Judiciary Committee have shown that they are bent on publicly shaming the President, by the exposure of graphic details about his sex life. The argument that the President should be removed from office because of his attempts to conceal an embarrassing sexual affair that has nothing to do with the conduct of government must be based on the premise that anything a public official does, however personal, is an appropriate subject of public scrutiny and public condemnation. The destruction of the boundary between public and private between what is everyone's business and what is only the business of the people directly involved is a very serious injury to the public life of our society. Of course it is an injury to the individual whose privacy is invaded, but when it is directed at a public figure, as it spectacularly is in this case, it is also an injury to the public. It overwhelms the scarce and precious space of the public forum with salacious material that does not belong there and drives out of public consideration and attention the important issues that do belong there. Privacy is not merely a good for the individuals whose privacy is respected. It is just as importantly a public good. The boundary between what is public and what is private keeps the limited common space of political debate clear for the consideration of issues that demand a collective response. It is no exaggeration to say that the insistent and apparently interminable takeover of the public forum by politicians and the media for the purpose of a forced judgment of the President's private conduct is a new form of pollution: It clogs up the common domain of attention and discourse that ought to be reserved for the public's business, and it threatens to set a precedent of political irresponsibility for the indefinite future. The impulse to cross this boundary, and to make sexual secrets the subject of public judgment, comes from a dangerous element in our political culture, the conviction held by many people on the right that it is the business of the society as a whole to root out sin, wherever it appears. This is contrary to the ideal of democracy as limited government that is embodied in the U.S. Constitution. The authority of collective decision does not, in this conception, extend into every detail of the personal lives of individuals. Government should concern itself only with public questions that need to be collectively decided. The variety and complexity of a great deal of personal life, including sex, makes it unsuitable and unnecessary to try to subject it to collective control. By seeking to impeach the President for his efforts to conceal his affair with Monica Lewinsky, the Republicans are displaying in an extreme form their sympathy with the advocates of an expanded state control over individual life, in the name of virtue. In a sense, President Clinton is standing in for all of us in a battle for the separation of sex and state. Thomas Nagel, December 14, 1998"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 22, 1998 (09:47)", "body": "This is good stuff, so if you want to read more: http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/faculty/nagel/papers/exposure.html"}, {"response": 3, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Tue, Dec 22, 1998 (10:05)", "body": "that was good stuff. Prof. Nagel put into words a lot of what i have been feeling about this whole fiasco."}, {"response": 4, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (01:48)", "body": "nagel's analysis is superb... gonna check out more (thanks for posting it terry)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Tue, Jan 12, 1999 (22:06)", "body": "from the nation, jan.25: \"...In the public sphere, there are, it is true, some good reasons for particular confidence in the judgments of history. For one thing, we in the present may not have all the necessary information. Some Pentagon Papers may reveal that the facts were quite different from what they seemed to be. The more important and deep-rooted difficulty, however, is that a conflict of interest is built into our attempts to rate our own actions. For each generation is a judge in its own case. To judge oneself fairly is ot an impossible thing, but it's easier to judge someone else. Sometimes the excitement of the moment can even destroy the capacity for judgment. Consider, for example, the ability of the German people in the thirties to arrive at a true estimation of Hitler. Historians are still arguing about Nazism, but does anyone suppose that any future generation will look on Hitler as fondly as did the Germans who supported him and put him in power? Why not invoke history's judgment, then? The problem, of course, is that, thanks to the same passions and interests that cloud our contemporary judgment, we are unable to know what people in the future will think. President Clinton, muse as he will, is the last person likely to arrive at a disinterested estimation of his legacy. Likewise, the Congressional Republicans are the last ones who can tell us what history will think of impeachment. Clinton, at least, has kept his hopes for posterity's congratulat ons to himself. Not so his detractors. They routinely speak as if impeachment is itself a judgment of history--a \"black mark,\" in the words of Senator Phil Gramm, who argued against censure because, in his view, impeachment was already irrevocable censure. It seems not to have occurred to these Republicans that history is as free to condemn impeachment as it is to condemn the President and that the blacker mark may be on their own record. This reliance on as-yet-unwritten history texts, which at first glance may look like a sign of self-confidence, is more likely a sign of nervous insecurity. The uncertainty was inadvertently revealed by former Republican Senator Alan Simpson when he expressed the view, widespread in GOP circles, that the public will have forgotten impeachment by the next election because \"the attention span of the American people is 'Which movie is coming out next week?'\" How, then, can impeachment be an indelible black m rk in history? People will either remember and judge or forget. They cannot do both. From the start, the scandal has been characterized by an artificial and willful magnification of modest misdeeds into the gigantic and gratuitous crisis that now confronts us. The premature invocation of history is merely the final step in this process. The attempt is to summon up the ghostly legions of posterity as a counterweight to the flesh-and-blood majority of living Americans who consistently opposed impeachment an now oppose conviction. It represents the ultimate step in replacing the facts before us with inflated, constructed reality. In simple truth, we have no access to history's judgments of us. Those who would try President Clinton and remove him from office should weigh the consequences of their deeds here and now, just as ordinary people do every day of their lives. Dependence on the opinion of the unborn amounts to evasion of responsibility by the living. I cannot, without falling into the error I accuse others of, say that history will judge this abdication unfavorably. I will only say that I do.\" (Jonathan Schell)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "AdamLipscomb", "date": "Fri, Jan 15, 1999 (21:47)", "body": "My job requires that I spend large amounts of time in the prescence of a TV monitor tuned to CNN. I am therefore all too familiar with the proceedings, and I have yet to hear a single Republican detail the exact statements they believe to be perjurious. I hear lots about lies, but the law is very clear about the difference between perjury and lying. I feel that the Lewinsky/Paula Jones matters are not impeachable - neither is a \"High Crime or Misdemeanor\". The campaign finance issues involving the Chi ese government seem to be more relevant, but that has been hurled out the window in what appears to be an attempt to smear the President's reputation. I find it amusing that so many of President Clinton's detractors have been divorced, had affairs and, in some cases, fathered children out of wedlock. What's that about glass houses? To my mind, private sexual activity is just that - private. Monica Lewinsky was an adult, Clinton was an adult. Who cares what they did? It ain't my business. Let's focus on the real issues - you know global warming, nuclear proliferation, Kosovo, sub-saharan Africa - you know, the important stuff?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "AdamLipscomb", "date": "Fri, Jan 22, 1999 (09:36)", "body": "So, has anyone else noticed that the R's keep changing their criteria? When Lewinsky was first mentioned, it was, \"If he'd just admit it, we'd understand.\" When he admitted it, it became, \"If he'd just apologize, we'd let it go.\" When he apologized again and again, it became, \"Well, he wasn't really sinces, and he didn't admit to perjury.\" The same thing is happening in the Senate trial. Makes you wonder if the R's are really interested in justice, or getting Clinton out of office. Seriously, though, I've heard Bob Barr admit that all they have is circumstantial evidence, but that's OK, because they don't have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt for the Senate to vote for removal. Does that scare the hell out of anyone else?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Feb 12, 1999 (11:54)", "body": "Senate Acquits Bill Clinton WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States Senate has acquitted President Clinton on charges of perjury before a federal grand jury and obstruction of justice, assuring that he will not be removed from office. The first article drew a not guilty vote of 55-45. The second was split 50-50. Both charges would have required 67 votes for conviction, a threshold that senators have known for weeks would not be met."}, {"response": 9, "author": "AdamLipscomb", "date": "Fri, Feb 12, 1999 (19:52)", "body": "[laughing to the point of pain] I'll be calling some Republican Congress offices next week to gloat. I know Clinton isn't supposed to, so I'll do it for him. Rep. Lamar Smith (R, Tx) is already sick of hearing from me about this, but, after his Cavalier dismissal of my concerns, politley expressed in an email, I'm going to make sure that any possible reelection will not be due to my inaction. politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 17, "subject": "Senator Rodham (Hillary Clinton for NY Senate)", "response_count": 17, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Feb 18, 1999 (10:33)", "body": "I can't!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Feb 18, 1999 (10:43)", "body": "well, she's establishing residency by purchasing that apartment in NY."}, {"response": 3, "author": "osceola", "date": "Thu, Feb 18, 1999 (12:17)", "body": "This is media hype. I don't believe she will. I think after all they've been through for 8 years, they should just relax for a few years, then use the stature of being ex-president and first lady to do something useful. Like Jimmy Carter."}, {"response": 4, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Feb 18, 1999 (12:51)", "body": "of course it won't happen overnight, she's got to lose the clinton stigma. once she does that, who knows!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Feb 18, 1999 (14:13)", "body": "I agree with George. The media have sunk their teeth into this one, and the White House couldn't be more pleased since the attention's been deflected off Clinton's problems for a change. With all Hillary's baggage (don't forget Whitewater), she'd be a fool to put herself out there--divide and conquer. They are much more powerful as a team."}, {"response": 6, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Feb 18, 1999 (14:20)", "body": "guess it's a wait and see deal. granted, hillary's not innocent in the \"skeletons\" department."}, {"response": 7, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb 18, 1999 (18:17)", "body": "where do I go to apply to be her page?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 19, 1999 (07:13)", "body": "Uh huh, you're looknig for a million dollar book deal?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Feb 19, 1999 (08:43)", "body": "*shrug*"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 19, 1999 (10:39)", "body": "Dont' give up so easily."}, {"response": 11, "author": "wer", "date": "Fri, Feb 19, 1999 (11:11)", "body": "that wasn't a shrug of giving up... that was a shrug of no comment!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Aug 14, 1999 (15:54)", "body": "anyone heard anything on this recently?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Aug 16, 1999 (22:10)", "body": "The first family was househunting in wealthy Westchester county yesterday--saw a property for $2.3 mil that interested them..."}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug 18, 1999 (18:04)", "body": "Yeah, it has seven bedrooms and Hillary's mom is moving in, they have to work two 12 hour shifts to keep a handle on Bill."}, {"response": 15, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Aug 26, 1999 (16:24)", "body": "I grew up in the neighborhood where they are seeking a home. They will most likely find their neighbors a bit unfriendly."}, {"response": 16, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, May 22, 2000 (04:52)", "body": "Slate says: Why Rudy Quit Commentators have focused on New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani's health and his troubled marriage as the reasons for his withdrawal from New York's U.S. Senate race. \"But there's a third factor, which hasn't been much discussed,\" Jacob Weisberg writes. \"Rudy would almost certainly have lost to Hillary Clinton even if he were in good health and happily married.\""}, {"response": 17, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, May 22, 2000 (18:57)", "body": "Not from what my sister on Long Island said. Loads of people in her senatorial district dislike her intensely. It all depends on who runs against her now... politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 18, "subject": "Kosovo", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Apr  4, 1999 (13:36)", "body": "ITEM 45...R,S,P or ?: 45:126) Dave Hughes 04-APR-1999 10:25 Woah! The last person on Metanet that I thought would advocate the extermination of a race of people is XXXX. I hope it was said in a fit of frustration. Even I, who have fought the nations wars 'up close and personal' with people (North Koreans, Chinese, North Vietnamese,) who were doing their level best to kill me, and who saw my fellow officers, West Point classmates with whom I had formed lifelong friendships, and my men, killed, wounded or captured, I *still* adhere to the position expressed most eloquently by a boss of mine, General Harold K Johnson - who spent years as a prisoner of war of the Japanese that, for Americans there is 'an Object which lies beyond War, and for the US that Object is never the extermination of another population.' And that sentiment, rooted deeply in the moral fiber of this nation, which has attempted, even if not fully successfully even inside its own borders, to accept the diversity of peoples, and their rights to live lives of self-determination so long as they do not attempt to force their wills on another people. It is *precisely* that level of political tolerance - which often gets so open minded our brains fall out - that differs Americans from others, and the United States from other polities. In fact it is far more out of that moral sense that we are at war in Yugoslavia - and NOT for oil, or 'national interests' or to deflect an imminent threat to our safety. A point many people have difficulty grasping or accepting. Sure, it has been heightened by the modern phenomnon of television, bringing the suffering of the Albanians in Kosovo to our living rooms. But it is *the* wellspring of our policy believe it or not. We *have* the capability of annihilating any foreign population. Its called the nuclear bomb. The primary reason that wonderful Democrat Harry Truman authorized its use against Japan which ended WWII in the Pacific, was to save the hundreds of thousands of American lives which would have been lost had we done it the hard way and invaded with ground troops. It was *not* to 'punish' the hapless Japanese people whose war-mongering leadership plunged them into that war. Even though I can assure you that the atrocities visited on the peoples of countries they invaded - from the Rape of Nanking to the treatment of POWs - was as evil as anything being done today in Kosovo. And we did *not* use it in North Korea when we were desperately trying to hang on - and spent over 50,000 dead Americans to defend South Korea. Against a tyrannical communist regime just as evil as Milosovic and his cronies. Still. We did *not* use it against North Vietnam, even when a Presidential candidate Goldwater suggested we should 'bomb them back into the Stone Age.' Even though we were losing Americans at an unnacceptable rate and knew those South Vietnamese who had cast their lot with us would be severely punished if North Vietnam occupied South Vietnam. We did NOT use it against Pol Pot and Khmer Rouge, whose killing fields were far beyond what the Serbs have done. And I did not let my handful of angry, trembling, tearful men shoot the 192 Chinese prisoners we had taken after 600 of them had tried to kill us all, and succeded in killing, wounding or capturing all but 29 of my 167 men and 6 offiers. When several of my men *wanted* to kill them all under circumstances where it would have been justifiable, nobody would have made a fuss, and we were in imminent danger of being overwhelmed by the 192 against our 15 on a very forward (into Chinese lines) hill. Why didn't I? Because I am an American soldier, not just a soldier. I think we last, as a nation, pursued a policy of extermination only during our western expansion across Native American lands and peoples. We outgrew it, actually. Something deeper than 'The only good Indian is a dead Indian' finally moved us. Americans take a long time to do the right things, but they eventually do. Among the German people, the committed Nazis were evil, and tolerated evil. And even today, with the skinheads there, the latent impulses within German society to look down upon, and punish, 'other peoples' is quite alive. The Japanese are *still* feared and hated by the Chinese (I know, with my daughter in law Chinese, and my face to face discussions with her parents, I have seen it up close). And many Japanese would be perfectly willing to exterminate others, even today. And we still have our KKK and elements of our society who would, if king, drive out the blacks and browns from America. The hatred of Arabs for Jews, (and the willingness of many Jews to deny Arabs their own 'self determination') is obvious. As is the ethnic and religious animonsity between Pakistanis, and Indians. I wouldn't trust either one of them if they had unlimited power. The innumerable tribal hatreds in Africa are legend. Thats the way the world is, and has been, and will continue to be. Yet America, as one of the onl"}, {"response": 2, "author": "AdamLipscomb", "date": "Sun, Apr  4, 1999 (18:14)", "body": "politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 19, "subject": "Race for the President 2000", "response_count": 39, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 1999 (22:42)", "body": ""}, {"response": 2, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sat, Jan 15, 2000 (12:21)", "body": ""}, {"response": 3, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jun  5, 2000 (19:32)", "body": "By AMY GREEN, Associated Press Writer SUMMERTOWN, Tenn. (AP) - Korean War veteran. Hippie commune founder. Published author. Drug convict. Stephen Gaskin has accomplished much in his 65 years, but there's still one more goal: U.S. president. Like other political renegades, Gaskin knows his chances are slim against the big party candidates, but the election gives him an opportunity to voice his message for peace, social consciousness and the legalization of marijuana. The self-described ``hippie priest and free-lance rabble-rouser'' says that as a Green Party candidate, he offers an alternative to the other guy from Tennessee - likely Democratic nominee Vice President Al Gore - and Gore's rival Texas Gov. George W. Bush. Gaskin's got competition within the Green Party from consumer advocate Ralph Nader, the party's perennial candidate, and former Dead Kennedys singer Jello Biafra. The Greens select their candidates at a nominating convention June 24-25 in Denver. If he loses the nomination, Gaskin says he will just take his $400 war chest and start the Outlaw Party - a group with the same beliefs as the Green Party but with a focus on legalizing marijuana. ``If you want to throw some seeds in your garden and grow some pot and smoke it yourself, I don't think it's anybody else's business. And I don't think that the Constitution thinks that it's anybody else's business,'' Gaskin says. This is not someone who fears the question: Did you inhale? ``I didn't exhale,'' he says. Gaskin, with his shoulder-length gray braids and tie-dyed T-shirts, envisions a country where affluence isn't viewed as a right but a privilege that is shared with the less fortunate. Eliminating corporate donations and soft money to political campaigns will restore integrity to political office, and the government should foot the bill for the nation's health care and educate its people through junior college, he says. Where would the money come from? ``For a couple of B-2 bombers you could pay for all the education in the United States,'' he says. Gaskin was a writing instructor at San Francisco State College - now San Francisco State University - following a two-year combat stint in Korea that ended in 1954. Social consciousness is the reason Gaskin withdrew from society and founded his own community 58 miles southwest of Nashville in the rolling hills of Middle Tennessee. His commune - a 1,000-acre spot in Summertown called The Farm - prospered at first but soon fell $800,000 into debt and in 1983 its leaders were forced to start charging dues. Today, some 250 people live there and pay about $100 monthly. Gaskin went to prison in 1974 for marijuana possession. He served one year of a three-year sentence and says he learned that ``the difference between who went to jail and who didn't ... was politics.'' He later helped win voting rights for felons convicted in Tennessee before 1981 when he discovered that he had lost his own voting rights and appealed to the Tennessee Supreme Court. The court struck down a 1981 law that, in tandem with another law, denied voting rights to all felons rather than those of specific crimes. Gaskin has spent $800 traveling to speaking engagements and Green Party meetings. He already is on the November ballot in a few states, including New York and New Mexico. When not on the campaign trail, Gaskin works on his vintage Volvos, teaches at the commune's school and writes. He already has published 10 books on politics and spirituality. Gaskin's wife, Ina May, says she is proud of her husband's campaign, win or lose. ``He shows that a little guy still can have a voice,'' she says. ``That's one of the sad things about the country today - so many people don't have a voice.'' - On the Net: Gaskin's campaign: http://www.steph \ufffdsonsofliberty2000"}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jun  5, 2000 (19:36)", "body": "I got this from the Sons Of Liberty in my email...Please do not interpret this as an endorsement...I just thought scribbled posts were not the way to view the upcoming presidential race for the most powerful position on earth. Wish this guy would exhale!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jun  5, 2000 (19:39)", "body": "The link does not work - I'll see what else might work if anyone is really interested."}, {"response": 6, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Sep  4, 2000 (04:33)", "body": "Bush and Gore Make Me Wanna Ralph A Letter from Michael Moore to the Non-Voters of America Dear friends, DISCLAIMER: If you are planning to vote for Al Gore in November, good for you. Don't let what I'm about to say change your mind because I've been told by all the experts that if you do change your mind based on what I'm about to say, George W. Bush might win the election and I certainly couldn't live with myself if that connoisseur of pharmaceuticals (the kind you snort up your nose or the kind you inject on death row) won, in part, because of a letter I spit out over the Internet. So let's review -- you like Gore, you vote for Gore. He's a decent guy. I met him last year at some benefit, he came up to me, big hug -- whoa, this veep is no stiff, I thought -- and thanked me for this and that. He even quoted lines from \"The Awful Truth\" - whoa, scary, I thought, what's he doing watching cable channels above 40 on the box...not much to do on this veep gig, eh? I told him I admired what he did when he came home to America as a Vietnam Vet and spoke out against the war. That took a lot of courage, I said (his dad lost his Senate seat for being an early opponent of the war). So, if Al Gore is your man, go for it. In fact, I insist on it, even if you are just throwing your vote away. What I am about to say, though, is not intended for any Al Gore (or George W.) voters. If you are one, please click off now. To Whom It May Concern: I address this letter to the largest political party in the United States - the 55% of you in the voting public who are so disillusioned with politics and politicians, so sick and tired of all the broken promises, so disgusted with all the b.s. that you have absolutely no intention of voting in November. You know who you are. AND YOU ARE THE MAJORITY! You rule. You are the Non-Voters, all 100 million of you! Until now, you have been the subject of scorn and ridicule. You've been called apathetic, lazy, ignorant. Your actions have been viewed as unAmerican (I mean, what kind of citizen in the World's Greatest Democracy would not exercise his or her most important and cherished right - the right to freely choose your leader!). Well, may I be the first to tell you that, not only are you NOT stupid and apathetic, I believe you are smarter than all the rest of us combined. YOU figured it out. YOU uncovered the scam. And YOU had the guts to no longer participate in a lie. Way to go! In 1996, you helped set the all-time American record for lowest turnout ever at a presidential election. The reason you, the majority, no longer vote in America is because you, the majority, realize there is no real choice on the ballot. The \"two\" parties both do the bidding of the wealthy and agree with each other on 90% of the issues. They take 90% of their money from people who make over a hundred-grand a year, and then enact over 90% of the laws those contributors want passed. On the ballot this November, you already know there is no contest. The independent Cook Political Report in D.C. last week announced that, out of 435 House seats up for election in November, there are only 47 seats where there is a \"true race\" between opponents - and, of those, only 14 seats have a race that is even \"close\" between the two candidates. 14 out of 435! \"Ninety-seven to ninety-nine percent of incumbents running for re-election will be returned to Congress in November,\" according to the Cook Report. The Non-Voters already understand this. And they are not going to waste one iota of their day on November 7 driving to some smelly elementary school gymnasium to participate in a Soviet-style election with no friggin' choice on the ballot. So, to you brave voter-resisters, I say congratulations on your act of civic disobedience! I joined you this primary season and refused to go along with this charade of \"choice.\" Nearly 80% of those of us of voting age - over 160 million Americans - staged a sit-in on our living room couches during this year's primaries. THAT is the great untold story of this election year. How much longer will the punditocracy be able to get away with dismissing this massive no-show as \"a sign Americans are content with the booming economy?\" Now that we have made our presence known (you all don't mind me speaking for us, do you? Good. In fact, I'll just assume the currently-vacant mantle of this majority party and serve as your leader until you say otherwise...), it is time to find a way that says, loudly and clearly, just how mad as hell we are and how we are not going to take it anymore. We need to find a way where our vote screams \"None of the Above!\" A chance to act, like that Chinese guy in Tieneman Square, standing in front of a moving tank and stopping it in its path. In November, we should find a way to follow in the footsteps of those intelligent Minnesotans who, even thought they could care less about professional wrestling (and even less, I'm sure, for Jesse \"The Body\"), proved to the world that the"}, {"response": 7, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep  4, 2000 (14:20)", "body": "I think I will dig a hole and pull it in on me after I hide inside. There is also a remote cave in Spain with a warm and loving person awaiting my arrival. I think anything would be better than having to choose amongst the current candidates!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Oct 13, 2000 (07:13)", "body": "From: Trebby@my-deja.com (Trebor) Subject: Bush Launches Another 'October Surprise' Date: 27 Sep 2000 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: References: X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 970088148 209.179.40.33 (Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:55:48 PDT) Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:55:48 PDT Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rus h-limbaugh,alt.conspiracy,alt.current- events.clinton.whitewater,alt.society.liberalism The facts: 1) Bush Sr. is a former CIA chief who knows the ins and outs of a succesful covert operation. 2) Both Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. have extensive ties to the oil industry. Bush Jr.has raised 15 times more money from oil and gas interests than Vice President Al Gore; he has personal ties to the oil industry and middle-east oil producers, his biggest lifetime patrons are employees of the Enron Oil Company, and at least 25 of his top fund-raisers, the Pioneers, are connected to the oil business. 3) Bush Jr. unexpectedly picks Dick Cheney as his VP candidate, yet another top'level oil tycoon with worldwide ties to oil producers. 3) Bush Sr. has already been traced to another election year 'October Surprise' in 1980, when he negotiated with the Iranians in Paris to keep the hostages until after Reagan was elected. 4) Bush SR. knows it will be next to impossible to get his son elected in such a strong economy. 5) Bush Sr also knows it was a recession that booted him out of the White House in '92. 6) Bush knows that about the only thing that could spark a recession at this point are high oil and gas prices, which would help spark the stock market downturn and recession they sorely need, not to mention consumer outrage at high prices. 7) OPEC ultimately controls oil prices 8) The Kuwaitis love George Bush Sr. for saving their butts from Saddam. 9) The Kuwaitis would do anything for Bush Sr. 10) Bush Sr and Dick Cehney meet with the Kuwait leaders on a supposed 'good-will' mission. 11) The Kuwaitis become the primary instigators in OPEC to cut back on oil production and raise prices which led to current prices. 12) The price of oil goes up from about $11 a barrel to over $34. The economy begins slowing, and new polls show consumer confidence is shaken. 12) Using high oil prices as a cover, the oil companies also initiate a program of gas price gouging centered primarily in the midwest, the most critical election-year battleground. 13) Bush and the Republicans would do absolutely ANYTHING to regain the presidency. You do the math. I can think of a dozen ways that Bush and the Republicans could have set this thing up. They have the motive, the means, and the opportunity. All that's missing at this point is the smoking gun. After all, we're not talking about the boy scouts here - we're talking about the same sort of thugs who set-up the president in the Paula Jones case. We're talking about the same guy who slandered John McCain's wife and daughter in order to win the Republican primary. When is America going to wake up and realize that we don't have a two party system anymore? We have one party, and a group of political gangsters calling themselves the Republicans. cheers, Trebor"}, {"response": 9, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Oct 18, 2000 (12:06)", "body": "Wednesday, October 18, as previously announced, Ralph Nader, consumer crusader and Green Party candidate for President, will be speaking at the Tony Burger Center, between West Gate and Brodie off of 290 West, south of Austin. Doors open at 5:30 pm, and the event starts at 7:00 pm. Jim Hightower and a musical act will open for Nader. Tickets are available at the Nader 2000 Office, (512) 472-6074 2932 East 12th from 11:00 am-8:00 pm or at www.votenader.org by credit card. They cost $10,."}, {"response": 10, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Oct 18, 2000 (12:36)", "body": "and what is very droll is that there will be seven podiums on stage, and one will be vacant unless bush participants, or at least it will be more vacant if he doesnt attend. \" Subject: Nader & Gore to Debate, along with other 3rd party candidates Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:39:40 -0600 On Friday, October 20, from 8:00 to 9:30 p.m. Eastern time, Judicial Watch will host a nationally televised presidential debate featuring six of the seven qualified presidential candidates. John Hagelin, Al Gore, Ralph Nader, Pat Buchanan, Harry Browne, and Howard Phillips have all accepted --only George W. Bush has declined. C-SPAN has committed to televising the debate, and Fox TV and American Voice Radio are considering coverage. The debate will be moderated by a highly respected journalist, and the panel will be composed of other journalists from well-known national newspapers--both liberal and conservative. Seven lecterns will be set up on stage--no matter who attends the debate. Each candidate will give an opening and closing statement and will be asked questions by the panel in rotating order. The questions, while not set in advance, will reflect Judicial Watch concerns about ethics in politics--bribery laws, corporate control of government, independent counsel issues, etc. About 600 people have been invited to the debate and to a reception immediately following, including over 30 Ambassadors and their seconds-in-command, as well as the entire Washington press corps. We urge everyone to watch this debate, which certainly promises to be the most interesting and representative presidential debate of the season. As always, please check your local listings for up-to-the-minute scheduling; TV and radio news stations reserve the right to make last-minute changes. This is the gpty-rn-m@greens.org mailing list."}, {"response": 11, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct 19, 2000 (16:59)", "body": "THE AL GORE STORY Good afternoon all. I'm Al Gore, and I'd like to tell you a little about myself. I know a lot about hardship, because I came into this world as a poor black child in a tiny town in the backwoods of Tennessee. I was born in a log cabin that I built with my own hands. I taught myself to read by candlelight and helped support my 16 brothers and sisters by working summers as a deck hand on a Mississippi River steamboat. Frequently we would stop the ship and I would cut and split five cords of wood for fuel overnight for the steam engines. My mother taught me the value of education, so every day, I would walk 5 miles to a one-room schoolhouse. I was a mischievous, fun loving scamp, though I never dreamed that one day, my youthful escapades would serve as the inspiration for \"Huckleberry Finn.\" Back then, we Jewish black folks in the south were second-class citizens. One day, a traveling minister came through town, and I asked him if anyone was ever going to do something to guarantee civil rights for all Americans. Well, I guess I made an impression. You see, the minister's name was Martin Luther King, Jr. My father was a United States Senator. He once perched me on his knee and said, \"Son, if you work hard and listen to your mama, someday you can live in a hotel in Washington, D.C., and go to an exclusive prep school.\" As a young Hindu boy, these were very valuable lessons. But life of privilege was not for me. Being Chinese, after getting my high school diploma, I took a job in a hot, dirty textile mill. I was so appalled at the treatment of the workers there that I organized a union. Later, that experience inspired a movie - which is why, to this day, my close friends at the AFL-CIO call me \"Norma Rae.\" When word got out what an 18 year old factory worker had done, Harvard University called and offered me a scholarship. I captained the hockey team to four consecutive national championships, but I also played football and was good enough to win the Heisman Trophy. During my college years, I lived in a housing project and moonlighted writing songs and playing lead guitar for a little rock band. You may have heard of us - The Rolling Stones. I'm the one with the lips. But there was a war going on, and I felt I had to serve my country. So I enlisted in the U. S. Army and went to Vietnam. I was deeply opposed to the war, but I did my duty as a soldier and came back home with the Medal of Honor and the Croix de Guerre. My battlefield expertise is current requisite reading material for Officers Candidates to this very day. My being a wounded female officer serving in disguise as a journalist was a full time project, but my military knowledge helped save tens of thousands of lives. Many cities in Southeast Asia are named after me to this very day. Statues of me are still commonplace in many official Government buildings in Viet Nam. When I got back, I took a long journey across this great land of ours. I've crossed the deserts bare, man, I've breathed the mountain air, man, I've traveled, I've done my share, man, I've been everywhere. I've hunted all the dangerous species of big game in five continents using only a handmade spear or my handmade lasersighted compound bow. And the people I met at truckstops and campgrounds and homeless shelters on that journey all said the same thing: \"Al, we need you in Washington.\" I knew they were right, but first I had to take care of some other business---building the World Trade Center, finding a low cost, more reliable nuclear weapon trigger design, founding the Audubon Society, doing the clinical research that proved smoking caused cancer, and coming up with the recipe for Mrs. Field's chocolate chip cookies. I was, in fact, the third (still silent) partner of Ben & Jerry with over half of the flavors personally developed by Tipper and me in our own kitchen. My extensive knowledge of Arctic Sea life keeps me busy in the research laboratory, but those endangered species need love too! Translating the dead sea scrolls is one of my favorite hobbies, and my current volume is in print in over 73 languages and is being studied in Seminaries worldwide. Being Indian, both Native American and the Mid East kind, this is valuable experience for me. Have towel and Tee Pee, will travel. Finally, I deferred to the demands of the people of Tennessee and allowed them to elect me to the House of Representatives and the Senate. And then one winter day nearly nine years ago, for no particular reason, I answered the call of the people once again and took the oath of office as Vice President of the United States. I also invented the Internet. Since then, I've been part of the most successful administration in American history. My friend, Bill Gates has asked me many times why I gave him the ideas of software development and asked for no money. Gosh, it just wouldn't be right! Many times President Bill Clinton has been pondering some grave decision and has asked me what to do. And w"}, {"response": 12, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Thu, Oct 19, 2000 (17:40)", "body": "In case you missed it... Presidential Debate Transcript Jim Lehrer: Welcome to the second presidential debate between Vice President Al Gore and Gov. George W. Bush. The candidates have agreed on these rules: I will ask a question. The candidate will ignore the question and deliver rehearsed remarks designed to appeal to undecided women voters. The opponent will then have one minute to respond by trying to frighten senior citizens into voting for him. When a speaker's time has expired, I will whimper softly while he continues to spew incomprehensible statistics for three more minutes. Let's start with the vice president. Mr. Gore, can you give us the name of a downtrodden citizen and then tell us his or her story in a way that strains the bounds of common sense? Gore: As I was saying to Tipper last night after we tenderly made love the way we have so often during the 30 years of our rock-solid marriage, the downtrodden have a clear choice in this election. My opponent wants to cut taxes for the richest 1 percent of Americans. I, on the other hand, want to put the richest 1 percent in an iron clad lockbox so they can't hurt old people like Roberta Frampinhamper, who is here tonight. Mrs. Frampinhamper has been selling her internal organs, one by one, to pay for gas so that she can travel to these debates and personify problems for me. Also, her poodle has arthritis. Lehrer: Gov. Bush, your rebuttal. Bush: Governors are on the front lines every day, hugging people, crying with them, relieving suffering anywhere a photo opportunity exists. I want to empower those crying people to make their own decisions, unlike my opponent, whose mother is not Barbara Bush. Lehrer: Let's turn to foreign affairs. Gov. Bush, if Slobodan Milosevic were to launch a bid to return to power in Yugoslavia, would you be able to pronounce his name? Bush: The current administration had eight years to deal with that guy and didn't get it done. If I'm elected, the first thing I would do about that guy is have Dick Cheney confer with our allies. And then Dick would present me several options for dealing with that guy. And then Dick would tell me which one to choose. You know, as governor of Texas, I have to make tough foreign policy decisions every day about how we're going to deal with New Mexico. Lehrer: Mr. Gore, your rebuttal. Gore: Foreign policy is something I've always been keenly interested in. I served my country in Vietnam. I had an uncle who was a victim of poison gas in World War I. I myself lost a leg in the Franco-Prussian War. And when that war was over, I came home and tenderly made love to Tipper in a way that any undecided woman voter would find romantic. If I'm entrusted with the office of president, I pledge to deal knowledgeably with any threat, foreign or domestic, by putting it in an iron clad lockbox. Because the American people deserve a president who can comfort them with simple metaphors. Lehrer: Vice President Gore, how would you reform the Social Security system? Gore: It's a vital issue, Jim. That's why Joe Lieberman and I have proposed changing the laws of mathematics to allow us to give $50,000 to every senior citizen without having it cost the federal treasury a single penny until the year 2250. In addition, my budget commits $60 trillion over the next 10 years to guarantee that all senior citizens can have drugs delivered free to their homes every Monday by a federal employee who will also help them with the child-proof cap. Lehrer: Gov. Bush? Bush: That's fuzzy math. I know, because as governor of Texas, I have to do math every day. I have to add up the numbers and decide whether I'm going to fill potholes out on Rt. 36 east of Abilene or commit funds to reroof the sheep barn at the Texas state fairgrounds. Lehrer: It's time for closing statements. Gore: I'm my own man. I may not be the most exciting politician, but I will fight for the working families of America, in addition to turning the White House into a lusty pit of marital love for Tipper and me. Bush: It's time to put aside the partisanship of the past by electing no one but Republicans. Lehrer: Thank you and good night."}, {"response": 13, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Nov  7, 2000 (09:13)", "body": "Today's the day, and it's still tight, tight, tight. The Capital grounds and Congress Avenue will be packed tonight."}, {"response": 14, "author": "lafn", "date": "Tue, Nov  7, 2000 (10:57)", "body": "LOL....Terry...We can tell Spring originates from Austin, Texas!!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Tue, Nov 14, 2000 (17:19)", "body": "10 matters that should be beyond dispute November 13, 2000 BY ROGER EBERT Ten things that should be obvious about the current situation: 1. There is no occasion for either side to concede (or claim victory) until Nov. 17, because until the overseas and absentee ballots are counted, a winner cannot be certified in Florida. 2. In the meantime, the hand count should proceed. The count of the first 1 percent of the Palm Beach County ballots suggested that a full recount could tilt the election. To know that much, and stop now, and never know for sure, would be intolerable. Florida law provides the right to request a manual recount. 3. Bush's stand against hand counts is further weakened by Saturday's Associated Press report that the governor signed Texas legislation three years ago that preferred manual recounts to electronic machine recounts. 4. The now-legendary \"little old ladies\" who say they voted mistakenly for Buchanan have been backed up by a mathematician who calculated for CNN that the odds against the Buchanan anomaly in Palm Beach County are \"a trillion to one.\" It is unseemly for Baker's staffers to continue their flapdoodle that the Reform Party has turned Palm Beach County into a stronghold. They should be honest and say what they really think, that the Gore voters made stupid mistakes--and so, tough luck. 5. Yes, the same bad ballot caused problems four years ago. Therefore, it should have been fixed at the time. Since it was not, redress is now due, when the bad ballot may actually subvert the outcome of a presidential election. The Bush-Baker position is like saying, \"Firestone tires killed people four years ago and there was no outcry then, so why are you complaining this year?\" 6. If Bush has indeed won, as Baker asserts, then that fact will be revealed in an orderly manner, and need not be asserted prematurely. By going through the motions of picking a cabinet and forming a government, Bush seems hasty and greedy. With less than 300 votes now separating the candidates, with Gore the winner of the popular vote, with the hand recount indicating still more changes, with thousands of absentee ballots still on the way, Bush looks like the kid who grabbed his football and ran home when it looked as if the other team might win. 7. What if Gore conceded? Should Bush even want to take office under that circumstance? His \"victory\" would always have an asterisk next to it, like Roger Maris' home run record. Bush would be president, but without a popular majority, with grave doubts about Florida, and with the cries of those little old ladies ringing in his ears. 8. There is pressure in some quarters for a \"speedy resolution.\" R.W. Apple of the New York Times wrote a front-page piece Sunday saying the matter MUST be decided by the coming weekend. To rush to a conclusion would forever leave a cloud over the election. Weekend polls show that the public is wiser than the pundits, and would rather settle the election clearly than to hurry because of artificial deadlines. 9. By claiming victory while the process is still under way, Bush gives the appearance of wanting to frustrate what may be the will of the voters. By filing a lawsuit to stop a legal recount provided for in Florida law, Bush and Baker do not look like statesmen, but usurpers. They want to win in court when they are not sure they won at the ballot box. 10. Those who call for a Gore concession say it would be \"for the good of the nation.\" What will be good for the nation is if the legal winner of the presidential election is sworn in as president. (thought this was excellently done... and as an aside, george jr. really is a weiner)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov 14, 2000 (19:58)", "body": "(Did you intend to put mustard on him or decant the whine into a goblet?) Good points, Nick! Thanks."}, {"response": 17, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Nov 15, 2000 (08:30)", "body": "Wow, Nick is back! Great to hear from you, hope you stick around to talk some post election politics. I agree with all of Eberts points, I guess this movie reviewer is foraying into politics now. Today's flap is over pregnant and bulging chads, those little pieces of paper that you punch out of the ballot. Yesterday's Court decision to give the Republican leaning Election Commissioner lady \"discretion\" leaves an opening for both sides. This election is still very much alive."}, {"response": 18, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Wed, Nov 15, 2000 (16:29)", "body": "i'm here every now and again... usually don't have much or anything to say, or in a hurry... but this situation... is unique, to say the least... this whole thing is surreal... every aspect... and i still haven't totally reconciled myself to it's most ridiculous aspect... that a draft-avoiding coke-snorting cheerleading half-witted... son-of-a-bush... represents himself to the nation as a texan... and is accepted, as such... and... even more inexplicably... is accepted by TEXANS, as being such... (sigh) HOW IN THE HELL CAN THIS BE???"}, {"response": 19, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 15, 2000 (17:41)", "body": "I posed the question how he managed to be elected Governor of Texas if all Texans loathe him. No answer as yet... Welcome to the Third World Country, The USA..."}, {"response": 20, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Nov 16, 2000 (15:17)", "body": "This Florida saga changes faster than you can blink. First Gore is on the news at prime time, then Bush races in from his country retreat to retort in prime time. And in between this the Florida Sec of State tries to put the brakes on teh recount. And today Microsoft's ace lawyer is in defending the Democrats. This is all happening very fast and it's still a Presidency up for grabs."}, {"response": 21, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Nov 16, 2000 (19:00)", "body": "Which is the best team in Florida? Florida Florida St. Miami Ballot is too confusing Pat Buchanan (thanks Barbara!) What happened to the vote I cast??!!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Nov 16, 2000 (19:28)", "body": "21 Rules For Being A Good Republican: 1) You have to believe that the nation's current 8-year prosperity was due to the work of Ronald Reagan and George Bush, but that yesterday's gas prices are all Clinton's fault. 2) You have to believe that those privileged from birth achieve success all on their own. 3) You have to be against government programs, but expect Social Security checks on time. 4) You have to believe that government should stay out of people's lives, yet you want government to regulate only opposite-gender marriages and what your official language should be. 5) You have to believe that pollution is okay, so long as it makes a profit. 6) You have to believe in prayer in schools, as long as you don't pray to Allah or Buddha. 7) You have to believe that only your own teenagers are still virgins. 8) You have to believe that a woman cannot be trusted with decisions about her own body, but that large multi-national corporations should have no regulation or interference whatsoever. 9) You love Jesus and Jesus loves you and, by the way, Jesus shares your hatred of AIDS victims, homosexuals, and President Clinton. 10) You have to believe that society is color-blind and growing up black in America doesn't diminish your opportunities, but you still won't vote for Alan Keyes. 11) You have to believe that it was wise to allow Ken Starr to spend $50 million dollars to attack Clinton because no other U.S. presidents have ever been unfaithful to their wives. 12) You have to believe that a waiting period for purchasing a handgun is bad because quick access to a new firearm is an important concern for all Americans. 13) You have to believe it is wise to keep condoms out of schools, because we all know if teenagers don't have condoms they won't have sex. 14) You have to believe that the ACLU is bad because they defend the Constitution, while the NRA is good because they defend the Constitution. 15) You have to believe that socialism hasn't worked anywhere, and that Europe doesn't exist. 16) You have to believe the AIDS virus is not important enough to deserve federal funding proportionate to the resulting death rate and that the public doesn't need to be educated about it, because if we just ignore it, it will go away. 17) You have to believe that biology teachers are corrupting the morals of 6th graders if they teach them the basics of human sexuality, but the Bible, which is full of sex and violence, is good reading. 18) You have to believe that Chinese communist missiles have killed more Americans than handguns, alcohol, and tobacco. 19) You have to believe that even though governments have supported the arts for 5000 years and that most of the great works of Renaissance art were paid for by governments, our government should shun any such support. After all, the rich can afford to buy their own and the poor don't need any. 20) You have to believe that the lumber from the last one percent of old growth U.S. forests is well worth the destruction of those forests and the extinction of the several species of plants and animals therein. 21) You have to believe that we should forgive and pray for Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde, and Bob Livingston for their marital infidelities, but that that bastard Clinton should be impeached. (The above does not necessarily reflect the opinion of th lady doing the posting)"}, {"response": 23, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov 17, 2000 (12:32)", "body": "Quotes about elections by Joseph Stalin: \"It doesn't matter who the people voted for; they always vote for us\". It_s not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes. \"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.\""}, {"response": 24, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (08:11)", "body": "Here's the most important news development of the Florida election so far and it's being overlooked by the media so far. \"With 428 of Broward County's 609 precincts manually counted by tonight, Mr. Gore had a net gain of 108 votes over the official tallies sent to the secretary of state on Tuesday. In Palm Beach County, workers have completed 31 of the 531 precincts and have come up with a net gain of 12 votes for Mr. Bush.\" http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/20/politics/20COUN.html The votes just may not be there. Meanwhile, Alan Dershowitz may win his case and the election may be voided after all. So look for a revote around December 5th. The Bush camp tactic of stalling the recounts may backfire on them and give these other court efforts some momentum, at least some time to get off the ground. And the basis of this is the \"Beckstrom test\" from Florida legal statutes, quote: [T]he real parties in interest here, not in the legal sense but in realistic terms, are the voters. They are possessed of the ultimate interest and it is they whom we must give primary consideration. The contestants have direct interests certainly, but the office they seek is one of high public service and utmost importance to the people, thus subordinating their interests to that of the people. Ours is a government of, by and for the people. Our federal and state institutions guarantee the right of the people to take an active part in the process of that government, which for most of our citizens means participation via the election process. The right to vote is the right to participate; it is also the right to speak, but more importantly the right to be heard. We must tread carefully on that right or we risk the unnecessary and unjustified muting of the public voice. By refusing to recognize an otherwise valid exercise of the right of a citizen to vote for the sake of sacred, unyielding adherence to statutory scripture, we would in effect nullify that right."}, {"response": 25, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (14:39)", "body": "..stay tuned... how embarrassing. How appalling... How American!!! The lawyers are hogging the cameras and our votes mean nothing. I am so disgusted!!!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (18:05)", "body": "*our votes* Marcia? Did you vote in Florida? Now, I understand the problem. ;-D"}, {"response": 27, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (18:35)", "body": "I'm here, I'm there I'm everywhere... but I only voted in Hawaii where my vote doesnot count anyway...*SIGH*"}, {"response": 28, "author": "Moon", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (18:42)", "body": "I voted in FL and voted correctly. The right to vote is the right to participate; it is also the right to speak, but more importantly the right to be heard. We must tread carefully on that right or we risk the unnecessary and unjustified muting of the public voice. By refusing to recognize an otherwise valid exercise of the right of a citizen to vote for the sake of sacred, unyielding adherence to statutory scripture, we would in effect nullify that right. So many rights have obviously defeated the left. ;-)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (19:03)", "body": "Right does not always mean might and vice versa - too bad they had to use the word for such diverse meanings...!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov 24, 2000 (13:48)", "body": "Before we hear more from across the pond about our stupid politicians... Britain Says Soldier Murderers Can Stay in Army BELFAST (Reuters) - Britain on Friday allowed two convicted army murderers to stay in uniform and sparked uproar among the victim's family and Northern Irish nationalists. Acknowledging the sensitivity of the move, Britain said the soldiers would not be sent back to serve in the volatile province. They were released early in 1998 after serving three years of life sentences for killing Peter McBride, an 18-year-old unarmed Roman Catholic. \"The army has today informed Guardsmen James Fisher and Mark Wright that they are to be retained in the army,\" the Ministry of Defense said in a statement. Sinn Fein, the political ally of the IRA guerrilla group, branded the decision to allow them to stay in the army as \"a slap in the face not only for the McBride family but also for the nationalist people as a whole.\" The victim's mother Jean, who has waged a campaign to have them dismissed from the army, said in a statement that she was \"completely devastated.\" \"We will fight on until these two murderers are kicked out... (British Prime Minister) Tony Blair should be ashamed of himself,\" Jean McBride said in a statement issued through the Pat Finucane Centre, a Northern Irish human rights lobby group. The defense ministry said the decision allowing them to resume their careers was taken by a \"newly-constituted army board\" -- an adjudication panel. It was created after a Northern Ireland judge, who was petitioned by the McBride family, quashed an earlier decision by the military to let them stay in the army."}, {"response": 31, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Nov 25, 2000 (04:43)", "body": "Whilst I've no intention of getting into a lengthy discussion on the subject of Ireland, I would suggest that you go and read something about the situation there. The above extract is pathetic propoganda, extolled by those who either sympathise with terrorists or have not even a basic grasp of Anglo-Irish politics. Sad."}, {"response": 32, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Nov 28, 2000 (08:28)", "body": "Salon.com hit it on the head about Gore's speech last night. \"But Gore is completely overmatched by his opponents. His condescending, sing-song delivery of a bland speech Monday night was so inadequate to the gravity of the moment it was almost insulting. He lacks President Clinton's ability to connect deeply with his audience and remind them what's at stake. He's said to want the presidency desperately, but no yearning came through, and no outrage either, when his electoral predicament truly is outrageous. \" America is getting what it asked for, a seriously deadlocked election and no clear leader is emerging. Bush is even worse the way he's wedded to his teleprompter. If Gore would only wake up and be himself."}, {"response": 33, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Tue, Nov 28, 2000 (08:33)", "body": "Salon.com hit it on the head about this: Bush is even worse the way he's wedded to his teleprompter. and this: If Gore would only wake up and be himself. Too bad, people are hung up on style vs. substance."}, {"response": 34, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Nov 28, 2000 (08:37)", "body": "The Salon piece is good, very good, read it if you get a chance: http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/28/gore/print.html"}, {"response": 35, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Nov 29, 2000 (07:49)", "body": "And, from the same piece, ther's this comment: This Groundhog Day interregnum has been tough on the country but instructive, even entertaining. We've learned so much about the men who would be our president. Bush is a sore maybe-winner who breaks out in boils from stress, sulks in private about losing the popular vote and blames his brother Jeb for making a mess of Florida. In a pinch, he turns to Daddy's fixers, Dick Cheney and James Baker and other retreads, who look none the better for the passage of time since the first Bush presidency."}, {"response": 36, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Dec  1, 2000 (07:23)", "body": "This buried story may be the trump card for Al Gore (from CNN): \ufffd Despite Republican challenges, a lawsuit over disputed absentee ballots in Seminole County is still on track for trial Monday in circuit court In Tallahassee. The suit from a Democratic activist seeks to have 15,000 absentee ballots thrown out, alleging Republican Party workers tampered with absentee ballot applications. The loss of those ballots would cost Bush nearly 5,000 votes. Republicans say no laws were broken."}, {"response": 37, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Dec 30, 2000 (01:44)", "body": "Michael Moore has some interesting ideas: Delivered-To: michaelmoore-l-outgoing@cloud9.net Delivered-To: michaelmoore-l@cloud9.net Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:05:22 -0500 Subject: [Mike's Message] A Christmas Appeal to President Clinton -- A Message from Michael Moore From: \"Mike's Message\" To: Sender: owner-michaelmoore-l@cloud9.net Reply-To: mikemail@cloud9.net Status: December 21, 2000 Dear President Clinton: Today, you begin your last month in office. There are many things my Friends and I wish you could have accomplished in these last eight years. I'm sure you feel the same way. There are a few things, though, you could do in the next 30 days that Would bring freedom to just three people. I am asking you to be a hero to three individuals who continue to experience a profound injustice. You, as President, can correct the suffering they have had to endure. In the Spirit of the season, I am hoping you will consider my appeal... 1. Pardon Leonard Peltier. Mr. Peltier, a leader of the American Indian Movement, has been in prison for over two decades. Amnesty International and every other human rights organization in the world considers him to be a political prisoner. The evidence is clear he did not commit the crime he is in prison for (the killing of a federal agent during an uprising at the Wounded Knee reservation... see http://www.freepeltier.org/) . Native Americans have barely survived the genocide that white Americans began over 400 years ago. That we would imprison just one innocent Native American is not only abhorrent, it is a continuation of that genocide. This man was punished for his political beliefs. He has suffered enough. Sign the pardon today. 2. Pardon Howard Mechanic. Howard, like yourself, was an anti-war protester at Washington U in St. Louis. His crime: he threw a cherry bomb. No one was harmed, no property was damaged, but Howard was given a five year sentence. After loosing the appeal, he ran. For the past 30 years, he lived a quiet life in Arizona, raised a family, did charity work, and fought for the underdog. Until he was caught. Now he is in prison. He never committed a crime. The New York Times magazine ran an incredible story on him earlier this year. Not only is this man no threat, he is an asset to our society, actively involved in his community. (See http://www.howardmechanic.org/ ) The Vietnam War is over. Why are we still fighting it by persecuting People like Howard Mechanic? This could have been you, Mr. President when you were at an anti-war rally. Release him from prison immediately. 3. Tell Peru to Return Lori Berenson. Lori has been in a Peruvian prison for over 5 years. They accused her of conspiring to help a rebel group there. She was in Peru working as a freelance journalist . She never got a real trial (see http://www.freelori.org/) . This could be your daughter, Mr. President -- a young, idealistic girl, traveling to a foreign country to shed light on the way people are treated, and because she was seen talking to or hanging out with the wrong people, she is imprisoned for life! In fact, this could have been YOU, Mr. Clinton. What if during your college travels to the U.K. or the Soviet Union you were seen chumming with IRA people or Soviet dissidents? What if the secret police just whisked you away without a trial? This is an outrage. I know you have asked the Peruvian officials about Her well-being, but enough is enough. They now claim they will give her a new \"trial.\" No way. NO more Peruvian \"justice\" for one of our young citizens. Demand that they return her now or Peru will face harsh sanctions from the United States. All you really need to do is just pick up the phone and make a call. You don't even have to tell us what you say to them. Just do it. Now, that's not a lot to ask of you, is it? Three of our fellow humans languishing unjustly in prison. There are many, many more. I suppose if you really wanted to go down in the history books, you could reduce everyone's federal sentence on death row to life imprisonment. Better yet, you could issue orders to stop arresting our black and Hispanic citizens at such a disproportional rate in your \"War on Drugs.\" THAT would be an act of courage. I ask all who read this to join me in this appeal. Write to President Clinton at: The White House 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue N.W. Washington, D.C. 20500 E-mail: president@whitehouse.gov Phone: 202-456-1414 Fax: 202-456-2461 And just for fun, just to make a final point about the sacredness of everyone's vote, you could make Al Gore -- not George W. Bush -- the 43rd president of the United States! That's right, you can make the will of the people a reality. And it's legal. Just resign a couple days early. Al, according to the Constitution, automatically becomes president. As I have said for years, it matters little which one of you Republicrats is in the Oval Office, so what the heck! Actually, the one thing we will miss about you is your sense of humor. Give us all a good lau"}, {"response": 38, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Dec 30, 2000 (19:08)", "body": "And, it is my right as an Americal Citizen to be repelled by his rude comments."}, {"response": 39, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Jan  4, 2001 (14:39)", "body": "Corporate Democracy; Civic Disrespect John K. Galbraith With the events of late in the year 2000, the United States left behind constitutional republicanism, and turned to a different form of government. It is not, however, a new form. It is, rather, a transplant, highly familiar from a different arena of advanced capitalism. This is corporate democracy. It is a system whereby a Board of Directors-- read Supreme Court -- selects the Chief Executive Officer. The CEO in turn appoints new members of the Board. The shareholders, owners in title only, are invited to cast their votes in periodic referenda. But their franchise is only symbolic, for management holds a majority of the proxies. On no important issue do the CEO and the Board ever permit themselves to lose. The Supreme Court clarified this in a way that the Florida courts could not have. The media have accepted it, for it is the form of government to which they are already professionally accustomed. And the shameless attitude of the George W. Bush high command merely illustrates, in unusually visible fashion, the prevalent ethical system of corporate life. Al Gore's concession speech was justly praised for grace and humor. It paid due deference to the triumph of corporate political ethics, but did>not embrace them. It thus preserved Gore for another political day -- the obvious intention. But Gore also sent an unmistakable message to American democrats: Do not forget. It was an important warning, for almost immediately forgetting became the media order of the day. Overnight, it became almost un-American not to accept the diktat of the Court. Or to be precise, Gore's own distinction became holy writ: One might disagree with the Court, but not with the legitimacy of its decision. Press references from that moment forward were to President-elect Bush, an unofficial title and something that the Governor from Texas (President-select? President-designate?) manifestly is not. The key to dealing with the Bush people, however, is precisely not to accept them. Like most Americans, I have nothing personal against Bush, Dick Cheney, nor against Colin Powell and the others now surfacing as members of the new administration. But I will not reconcile myself to them. They lost the election. Then they arranged to obstruct the count of the vote. They don't deserve to be there, and that changes everything. They have earned our civic disrespect, and that is what we, the people, should accord them. In social terms, civic disrespect means that the illegitimacy of this administration must not be allowed to fade from view. The conventions of politics remain: Bush will be president; Congress must work with him. But those of us outside that process are not bound by those conventions, and to the extent that we have a voice, we should use it. In political practice, civic disrespect means drawing lines around the freedom of maneuver of the incoming administration. In many areas,>including foreign policy, there will be few major changes; in others such as annual budgets and appropriations, compromises will have to be reached. But Bush should be opposed on actions whose reach will extend beyond his actual term. First, the new president should be allowed lifetime appointments only by consensus. The public should oppose -- and 50 Senate Democrats should freely block -- judicial nominations whenever they carry even the slightest ideological taint. That may mean most of them, but no matter. And as for the Supreme Court especially, vacancies need not be filled. Second, the Democrats should advise Bush not to introduce any legislation to cut or privatize any part of Social Security or Medicare. Third, Democrats should furiously oppose elimination of the estate tax a social incentive for recycling wealth to the non-profit sector, to foundations and universities, that has had a uniquely powerful effect on the form of American society. Once gone, this ingenious device will never be reenacted. Fourth, the people must unite to oppose the global dangers of National Missile Defense -- a strategic nightmare on which Bush campaigned -- that threatens for all time the security of us all. Fifth, Congress should enact a New Voting Rights Act, targeted precisely at the Florida abuses. This should stipulate: mandatory adoption of best-practice technology in all federal elections; a 24-hour voting day; a ban on private contractors to aid in purging voter rolls; and mandatory immediate hand count of all under-votes in federal elections. With those steps taken, Democrats must also recognize and adapt to the new political landscape that emerged from this election. Outside of Florida, Democrats are finished in the South. But they have excellent prospects of consolidating a narrow majority of the Electoral College -- so long as, in the next election, there is no Ralph Nader defection. What can prevent such a thing? Only a move away from the main Clinton compromises that so infuriated the progressive left. Na"}]}, {"num": 2, "subject": "Dole vs Clinton - the '96 election for president", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "AndyFranz", "date": "Tue, Oct  1, 1996 (11:03)", "body": "I think that Dole's an ass. Calling him a pineapple is an insult to fruit."}, {"response": 2, "author": "homer", "date": "Wed, Oct  2, 1996 (21:49)", "body": "I know my ABCs...Anybody but Clinton"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct  3, 1996 (06:56)", "body": "How about ABCD, anybody but Clinton or Dole (add Perot)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (09:50)", "body": ""}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (11:41)", "body": "The most intelligent comment we've had all day mixu!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (10:28)", "body": "It WAS a mistake, but luckily a clever one. There's nothing else to say about politics, I'd say."}, {"response": 7, "author": "budabob", "date": "Wed, Jun 14, 2000 (20:58)", "body": "The Microstate Forum PROVE IT OR REMOVE IT UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Message posted by Robert Moore (enenkio@enenkio.org) on 6/14/00 at 4:58:20 PM Message: Kingdom of EnenKio Visit the Official Web Site of EnenKio Updated Jan. 2000. As you explore the uphill battle, please take some time and assist in this plight. You may know someone who can be a bigger influence than you previously thought. Most of the battle is fought in the courts - the Internet is a great equalizer. Information is the ultimate weapon. The United States has never had a legal claim to EnenKio. Often depictated on maps as Wake Island, EnenKio is actually the property of King Remios Hermios. This claim cannot be dismissed, and EnenKio will soon be recognized as a Nation. Kiribati, Nauru and Tonga, have recently joined the UN and as the illegal activities of the US in the Pacific are slowly being undone, EnenKio will be the next nation to regain it's recognition. Send an E-mail to the Whitehouse expressing your concern and urging the United States to return EnenKio to it's rightful owner. United States President, Bill Clinton United States Vice President Al Gore First Lady Hillary Clinton Choo e a US Senator, US Congressman, Governor, Attorney General, or the United Nations. Suggested texts, cut and paste or compose your own. Please take the important step of adding the Kingdom of EnenKio to your Web pages' Nation Drag down list. Thank you very much for you time, your compliance will be appreciated. Please take the important step of correction your Wake Island reference to include the proper name of EnenKio (Island of the Orange Flower). Adding this additional reference may not take much of your time, but it will add tremendous volumes to rebuilding the nearly lost heritage of these Pacific Islands. Please take the time to assist in correcting the blotch on America's humanitarian record and return the Ownership of EnenKio (Wake Island) to it's rightful owners. I strongly urge you to use the powers of your position to undertake any and all tasks necessary to have your Government recognize the Kingdom of EnenKio and urge that the United States correct past errors. Wake Island should be recognized a \"Kingdom of EnenKio\", or simply \"EnenKio\". If you are concerned about the accuracy of this, please feel free to research the legality of the American claim. You will find that EnenKio is the proper name. Failing that, you should at least reference that the claim is in dispute, much like the CIA factbook. Thanks in Advance and sorry about the nuisance. The Kingdom of EnenKio has about 4,000 citizens. Their island is being illegally occupied by the United States. There is currently a court battle to return the Islands to their rightful owner. Please recognize this sovereign nation by including EnenKio in your countries list. Recognition is an important push - so please when you stop on a web page - and the country drag down does not include a listing for EnenKio - please send the Web Master a polite e-mail asking that EnenKio be included. Any Mention of Wake Island should include a link to http://www.enenkio.wakeisland.org . Requests Sent to: Site www.flags.net Contact graham@flags.net 1/2000 Site www.abcnews com Country Information / Contact abcsuggestions-l@list2.starwave.com 11/99 Site Flags of the World Contact rob.raeside@acadiau.ca 1/2000 Site www.countries.com Contact webmaster@countries.com 11/99 Site http://www.travel-finder.com/feedback.htm 11/99 If these sites have spent a long time since initial contact - feel free to pass along your sentiments. If you find new ones cc: me your contact or report them to me and I will ask them for a correction. Once corrected please make sure we add them to the corrected list: Working on it: These sites have acknowledged reciept of a request to correct their listings to correct their reference to Wake Island as EnenKio, they may need a 'thank you' note for the consideration - and some encouragement down the correct path. Site MSN Encarta on Line Contact Mailed via Form 11/99 Issued CASE_ID_NUM: SRX991117600786 and assured a team of fact checkers is going to confirm. Site setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu Contact anderson@surf.com 1/2000 Thanks for the mail. I really can't p t in disputed countries: Acknowledgment / Corrections / Recognition / Links received from: www.southern-cherokee.com/news/index.html Has signed a http://www2.cybercities.com/e/enenkio/news7.htm treaty of recognition and friendship. www.inmotionmagazine.com/pacific.html The Indigenous Rights Movement in the Pacific. www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/2022/enenkio/index.html This Social Studies project shows the fraud of the United States. www.pica-org.org/websurf/websurf Pacific Islanders' Cultural Association www.dreamscape.com/morgana/nereid.htm [see link Illegal Occupation] www.marconipacific.com/pacific.htm A Venture Management Company. www.arpla.univ-paris8.fr/sites/ml/majcountry.htm www.emulateme.com/wakeisland.htm Same Information as CIA fa"}, {"response": 8, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Jul  2, 2006 (05:10)", "body": "Who will run in 2008? politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 20, "subject": "George W Bush 2000 parody websites", "response_count": 83, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Mar 24, 2000 (00:47)", "body": "One of the best websites I've seen is Austinite Brian's http://www.georgebush2000.com and its companion site (for sale) http://www.georgebush2000.net"}, {"response": 2, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Apr 13, 2000 (00:01)", "body": "Not my poem and not necessarily my views, but I think it belongs here: Georgy Porgy pudding and pie, Took cocaine which made him high, When the sheriff came his way, Georgy's pa sent him away. Georgy Porgy wasn't daft, Wanted to avoid the draft, He found being a coward was not too hard, Daddy's friends got him into the guard. Georgy Porgy businessman With daddy's money his career began, When the seed money all dried up, Georgy's business went belly up. Georgy Porgy governer guy Brought the crime rate up so high, And that wasn't his only solution, Texas is number one in pollution. Georgy Porgy for President, Doesn't know where his money went. But if he has to fight Al Gore, Daddy's friends will get him more. Georgy Porgy's a true Texan, Though he may fail again and again, As long as his father has wealthy friends, He'll do to us, what he did to them."}, {"response": 3, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Apr 17, 2000 (14:35)", "body": "The big boys made me post this: Conversation at an international convention of surgeons: An Israeli doctor said: \"Medicine in my country is so advanced, we can take the kidney out of one person, put it in another, and have him looking for work in six weeks.\" A German doctor said: \"That's nothing! In Germany we can take a lung out of one person, put in another, and have him looking for work in four weeks.\" A Russian doctor said: \"In my country medicine is so advanced that we can take half a heart from one person, put it in another and have them both looking for work in two weeks.\" The American doctor, not to be outdone said: \"Hah! We are about to take an asshole out of Texas, put him in the White House, and half the country will be looking for work the next day.\""}, {"response": 4, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Thu, Oct 19, 2000 (17:39)", "body": "Looking for parody? http://members.aol.com/myfreestorage/private/dubya/index.html"}, {"response": 5, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sun, Oct 22, 2000 (09:57)", "body": "That was pretty mean spirited, Carvey's skit where Dubya cackes about killing some game out on a father son hunting jount and then Elder Bush takes aim as Jr. gleefully goes after the prey. And the Gore impression fell short in the opening skit, they really haven't figured out how to capture the aggressive, on top of his game, Gore and they fall back to the \"I agree\" stereotype from the Second Debate. And dragging in Carvey's Elder Bush routines is a bit contrived, we've been there, seen that."}, {"response": 6, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sun, Oct 22, 2000 (09:57)", "body": "I was, in the above post, referring to the skits in last nights Saturday Night Live."}, {"response": 7, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct 22, 2000 (15:15)", "body": "There is not much to brag about in the current presidential campaign. There seems to be a great deal more dignity and substance in the Vice Presidential one. This is most uhappy and it makes America look incredibly foolish!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 25, 2000 (19:38)", "body": "\"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure,.\"...George W. Bush, Jr. \"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. \"Welcome to Mrs. Bush, and my fellow astronauts.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. \"Mars is essentially in the same orbit...Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 8/11/94 \"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/15/95 \"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 5/22/98 \"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is 'to be prepared'.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 12/6/93 \"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 11/30/96 \"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. \"The future will be better tomorrow.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. \"We're going to have the best educated American people in the world.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/21/97 \"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. \"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/93 \"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. \"Public speaking is very easy.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. to reporters in 10/9 \"I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. \"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr \"When I have been asked who caused the riots and the killing in LA,my answer has been direct & simple: Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame. .....George W. Bush, Jr. \"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 5/20/96 \"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/22/97 \"For NASA, space is still a high priority.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/5/93 \"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr., 9/18/95 \"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that George Bush may or may not make.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. \"We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. \"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr. \"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system.\" .....Governor George W. Bush, Jr."}, {"response": 9, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 25, 2000 (19:39)", "body": "Could someone tell me how this man got elected the Governor of the Great State of Texas? Just curious..."}, {"response": 10, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct 31, 2000 (19:54)", "body": "If GW wins, There will be some changes in America. All tv stations will have to carry an hour a day of NASCAR events in order to get their license renewed. All pinatas maciadoras in Texas must include pinatas of Bill & Hillary Clinton. PBS will have only 3 shows: Wall St Week, The Nightly Business Report and Austin City Limits. Alex Baldwin and Barbra Streisand will be exiled from the US. All coins will have \"Remember the Alamo\" on the front and \"In God We Trust\" on the back."}, {"response": 11, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Nov  8, 2000 (07:29)", "body": "What a night! Still too close to call, though it's looking like Bush in Florida by the narrowest of margins. They're doing a recount and Gore is sending in a team of lawyers and observors."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Moon", "date": "Wed, Nov  8, 2000 (08:32)", "body": "As a Florida resident, I find this very exciting. We will decide the turn of the 21st Century. On a personal note, Gore was a sissy weakling to concede before it was over and then retract. If this is the way he reacts, I fear for us all if he becomes president. His team of lawyers and observers is not good PR either."}, {"response": 13, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Wed, Nov  8, 2000 (10:33)", "body": "Am so glad that people will finally have a new state to kick around for dubious election practices. ;-D"}, {"response": 14, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov  8, 2000 (16:46)", "body": "Spoken like a true daughter of the former favorite target state. Ah yes, and the greatest man in my world was born there... I am sorry for Florida but happy for Illinois. You watch them, Moon! No matter the outcome, let it happen in a honest way."}, {"response": 15, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Wed, Nov  8, 2000 (21:14)", "body": ""}, {"response": 16, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Wed, Nov  8, 2000 (22:14)", "body": ""}, {"response": 17, "author": "Moon", "date": "Wed, Nov  8, 2000 (22:35)", "body": "LOL, Karen! I see GW Bush agrees with that little boy. Gore was dumb to concede before it was over. ;-)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "patas", "date": "Thu, Nov  9, 2000 (09:06)", "body": "(MarciaH)Could someone tell me how this man got elected the Governor of the Great State of Texas? Just curious... Oh Marcia! I'm still wiping my tears off after reading those quotes... Came here today for the first time and was ROTFLMAO...You're going to have a very entertaining president ;-)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "LisaJH", "date": "Thu, Nov  9, 2000 (11:24)", "body": "(Gi) Oh Marcia! I'm still wiping my tears off after reading those quotes... Same here! Yogi Berra and Samuel Goldwyn move over. Ladies and gentlemen, I (tentatively) present to you the next President of the US, George W. Malaprop, er, I mean, Bush. ;-)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Nov  9, 2000 (16:46)", "body": "Tha man could not have done better if he had used a \"gag writer.\" Do you imagine these were all tongue-in-cheek comments? If so, that is even worse. They are hilarious - or would be if not from the mouth of the potentially most powerful man in the world! As an American, I am aghast and offended (and more than a little amused...)"}, {"response": 21, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Thu, Nov  9, 2000 (16:50)", "body": "Political leanings aside, I know what you mean, Marcia. Who on earth would want another dummy in such an office besides the late night talk shows?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Tineke", "date": "Fri, Nov 10, 2000 (06:46)", "body": "According to my 'walking encyclopedia' brother, nearly all those quotes are Dan Quayle quotes."}, {"response": 23, "author": "Moon", "date": "Fri, Nov 10, 2000 (07:50)", "body": "According to my 'walking encyclopedia' brother, nearly all those quotes are Dan Quayle quotes. Heehee."}, {"response": 24, "author": "patas", "date": "Fri, Nov 10, 2000 (08:36)", "body": "(Tineke)According to my 'walking encyclopedia' brother, nearly all those quotes are Dan Quayle quotes. I was reminded of him, certainly ..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Fri, Nov 10, 2000 (10:20)", "body": "This is hysterical. I only saw bits of Rather, but was LOL at his \"tornado through a trailer park\" remark. So spot-on! Last night on Letterman, they were showing a whole bunch of these down-home similes: http://www.modernhumorist.com/mh/0011/rather/"}, {"response": 26, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Fri, Nov 10, 2000 (10:29)", "body": "Or this on Flori-Duh: http://www.modernhumorist.com/mh/0011/florida/ :-))))"}, {"response": 27, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov 10, 2000 (13:47)", "body": "Ya, know...we USED to be pretty good at running a Federal Republic (often mistaken for a Democracy)... John Burnett warned me about 6 months ago that Dan Quayle's comments were being recycled for this election. Out of the mouths of babes? boobs? your call. But, please, lets get this over with and get on with real life again!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "patas", "date": "Fri, Nov 10, 2000 (14:29)", "body": "Karen, have you checked their http://www.modernhumorist.com/mh/0011/ballot/ ?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Fri, Nov 10, 2000 (14:55)", "body": "Good one. ;-D Thanks, Gi. Liked the last question: And if Bush loses: _ Eat whole pint of Chunky Monkey; execute someone _ Laura will let him campaign for three more weeks; then break the news _ Drink the case of Bud Ice he's been saving in case of nuclear war Cannot believe the number of people who are crying \"we have no president!\" How did these people graduate high school?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov 10, 2000 (15:26)", "body": "From my future daughter-in-law, The New Florida Ballot"}, {"response": 31, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Fri, Nov 10, 2000 (15:39)", "body": "Actually, the Nader line should've gone straight across. Saw a Georgetown University psychology professor on TV. He conducted a test with his students, using the Palm Beach ballot. Over 50% of those intending to vote for Gore wound up voting for Buchanan. Said it had more to do with \"expectations,\" i.e., the second hole to be punched should've been Gore's. That's why those types of ballots (crossing over the middle section) are not used elsewhere."}, {"response": 32, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Nov 11, 2000 (13:33)", "body": "More fun and games: California (AP) Steve Lavin and the UCLA Bruins are demanding a recount of the game in which Kansas won 99 to 98. \"The baskets were confusing,\" says Lavin. \"I'm sure that some of the balls that went in Kansas' basket were meant to go into ours. Kansas teams would never have scored nearly one-hundred points. There's no way we lost this one. UCLA demands a recount.\" Kansas officials are calling this \"outrageous\". \"They agreed to the size and shape of the baskets prior to tip-off,\" replies KU coach Roy Williams. \"If they had a problem with them, they should have said so before we started. You don't get to keep playing until you're happy with the outcome. Someone had to lose. We've scored over one hundred points many times.\" UCLA has sent lawyers as well as their athletic director to Madison Square Garden, where the scoreboard will be tested. Bob Frederick, athletic director for Kansas, will be there as well to oversee the process. \"We are confident that when the points are re-totaled, we will be the winner of the game,\" says Frederick. Kansas also points out that in many games prior to this one, the same baskets were used. \"They didn't have a problem with the baskets until they lost,\" says Williams. Outside the garden, UCLA student protesters have gathered outside bearing signs such as, \"UCLA wants a fair game!\". Students' thoughts echoed their signs. \"All we want is a fair total of the points before we declare a winner,\" says student Karen Hays, a Bruin from California. \"We need to proceed cautiously and not rush to judgment before we declare a winner.\" ESPN, around 7pm eastern time, had mistakenly declared UCLA the winner, despite the 16 point lead the Jayhawks held at that point. At about 8:30pm, with the game still to close to call, ESPN had to back off its prediction. College Basketball analyst Jay Bilas made the call. \"We felt that with a number of points still not added in by Cummings and Watson, two very good scorers, we were certain UCLA would carry this game. We may have been premature in our prediction.\""}, {"response": 33, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov 13, 2000 (11:52)", "body": "NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE To the citizens of the United States of America, In the light of your failure to elect anybody as President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves and, by extension, the free world, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories including New Jersey. To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, please comply with the following acts: 1. Look up \"revocation\" in the now official Oxford Dictionary ($75). Start spelling English words correctly. 2. Learn at least the first 4 lines of \"God Save The Queen\" 3. Start referring to \"soccer\" as football 4. Declare war on Quebec and France 5. Arrest Mel Gibson for treason 6. Close down the NFL. Learn to play rugby 7. Enjoy warm flat beer and steak and kidney pudding. Train waitresses to be more aggressive with customers and not to tell you their names. 8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday, this has been replaced with November 5th 9. All members of this British Crown Dependency will be required to take 6 weeks annual vacation and observe statutory tea breaks. 10.Driving on the left is now compulsory - recall all cars to effect the change immediately. 11.Report to our Consulate General in NY - M Wragg - for your new passport and job allocation. 12. Add the Royal Insignia to the top of the Washington Monument - and the Queens Christmas speeches to the Lincoln Memorial. 13. Stop referring to the World Series of Baseball and instead call the National Series of USA, Cuba and Japan. Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776). Thank you for your cooperation and have a nice day!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov 13, 2000 (12:12)", "body": "In London the headlines read, \"The Disunited States of America.\" Britain's tabloid Mirror ran pictures of Gore and George W. Bush below the headline: \"Forrest Chumps. This election's like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get.\" Italian newspapers called it, \"A Day Worthy of a Banana Republic.\" In Moscow, the chairman of the Russian Central Election Committee told newspapers that this election was proof positive that they should not adopt our system of elections."}, {"response": 35, "author": "Tineke", "date": "Thu, Nov 16, 2000 (04:23)", "body": "I saw a different version of that revocation. I like #4 NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE To the citizens of the United States of America. In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your new Prime Minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect: 1. You should look up \"revocation\" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up \"aluminium\". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up \"vocabulary\". Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as \"like\" and \"you know\" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up \"interspersed\". 2. There is no such thing as \"US English\". We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. 3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard. 4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the good guys. 5. You should relearn your original national anthem, \"God Save the Queen\", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get confused and give up half way through. 6. You should stop playing American \"football\". There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American \"football\" is not a very good game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays \"American\" football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American \"football\", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby sevens side by 2005. 7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons if they give you any merde. The 98.85% of you who were not aware that there is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The Russians have never been the bad guys. \"Merde\" is French for \"shit\". 8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called \"Indecisive Day\". 9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean. 10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy. Thank you for your co-operation."}, {"response": 36, "author": "Moon", "date": "Thu, Nov 16, 2000 (08:38)", "body": "LOL, thanks, Tineke! We all know there are a lot of royalist here. ;-) As much as Blair is like Gore, I do not think he will let him get away with it. Vincere aut mori."}, {"response": 37, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Fri, Nov 17, 2000 (22:28)", "body": "Here we go, Slate magazine has compiled The Complete Bushisms: http://slate.msn.com/Features/bushisms/bushisms.asp Way too many to post here."}, {"response": 38, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Nov 18, 2000 (00:00)", "body": "All of this stuff has at least made my CNN viewing slightly interesting whilst I've been stuck in a hotel room with three channels...I still can't believe that nearly 50% of the population of the US actually voted for Gee Dubya. I mean, the guy is quite obviously a red-necked, far-right, fascist moron. Hence the headline: U.S. ELECTS RED-NECK TO RUN COUNTRY, NUCLEAR ARSENAL :-))"}, {"response": 39, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Nov 18, 2000 (00:43)", "body": "The Canadian elections are at the end of the month. Would it not be ironic if they knew their results before we did?! Mike, are you thrilled with Tony Blair??? Politics is not all that appealing anymore, is it?! I'd still like someone to tell me how Texas managed to elect Gee Dubya Governor if he is so heartily disliked. Waiting...!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Nov 18, 2000 (00:55)", "body": "I can't stand Tony Blair. He's the worst of both worlds: implements social policy like a right-winger yet taxes people like a left-winger. I don't really care too much whether a government is left-wing or right-wing, as long as they're not a terrible mix of the two. As for Gee Dub', I imagine that Texans would love someone like that. Plus, all Texans are stoopid. ;-) Speaking of stupid, every time I hear Allie G talk I think..."}, {"response": 41, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Nov 18, 2000 (02:40)", "body": "*grin* Good thing both Terry and William were born outside the state. Otherwise we'd need to be scribbling on the internet sidewalk with chalk. You know, just about nuthin is gonna change when whomever gets elected. The powers that be continue behind the throne and our figurehead president makes prewritten-for-him speeches for the press. After Allen Greenpan is still gonna be calling the shots in the Federal Reserve. Oh well, let's just please end the circus and get on with real life!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Nov 18, 2000 (06:54)", "body": "I would agree usually but this time there is the appointment of two new Supreme Court judges to think about. If/When G'Dub gets in you can kiss goodbye to civil-rights and Roe vs. Wade..."}, {"response": 43, "author": "mari", "date": "Sat, Nov 18, 2000 (09:19)", "body": "You are absolutely correct, Mike. The composition of the Court is at stake. I say, let them take their time and get the vote count right. It's not like we don't have a president. We do, and he will be there for another 2 months. In today's society, we are all so spoiled by our expectations of instantaneous results and answers. Where's the fire, fergodsake? This election will have ramifications for years to come. On a lighter note, here's Letterman's Top 10 from Thursday: Top Ten Things The Founding Fathers Would Say If They Were Alive Today: 10.\"Remember that electoral college thing we made up when we were drunk? They're still using it!\" 9.\"Maybe that ruthless monarchy thing in England wasn't such a bad idea after all...\" 8.\"Good to see Florida is still using the same old voting machines\" 7.\"That's odd -- in my day, we also had a senator named Strom Thurmond\" 6.\"So that's the Washington Monument? Yeah, in his dreams\" 5.\"Giuliani has really wrecked Times Square\" 4.\"We risk our lives to form this great nation and you wanna let George W. Bush run it?!\" 3.\"Back in our time there certainly wasn't anyone as man-tastic as Ricky Martin\" 2.\"He did *what* in the Oval Office?\" 1.\"Screw this, we're going to Canada\""}, {"response": 44, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Nov 18, 2000 (13:12)", "body": "Fuuny, A man I repect hightly voted for Clinton twice for the very reason of a more liberal Supreme Court. Nuthin happened, kiddies! I sure hope that is makes a difference this time. And, does it reallt work when you try to legislate morality?! Where I live is so far from the rest of the states that most people stil think we are a foreign country...*sigh* Good one. Mari!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Nov 19, 2000 (21:00)", "body": "It's ironic that the Supreme Court, probably the most important thing in the whole US, should be at stake when both major candidates were such a dead loss :-) It's interesting, I think, that the US in general seems to be lurching further towards the Right. The impression that Americans like to give is that their country is founded on freedom, yet a large percentage of the population seem to be voluntarily moving themselves away from a moderate, libertarian Centre ground. Odd."}, {"response": 46, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Nov 19, 2000 (21:39)", "body": "Mike, \"Americans\" as we knew them before you were born but of WW2 variety were White and Anglo-Saxon variety, mostly. They voted and remain engraved in our minds as \"typical Americans.\" We are now a distinct minority. Look at us more carefully!!! The ones who vote now are much different and I think none would rise to defend democracy anywhere. Their own money, you becha. Very self-centered!!!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (00:36)", "body": "If that is true then how do you account for 50% of the electorate voting for GWB?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (08:12)", "body": "Amazing but true, Ann Richards didn't wage as vigorous a campaign as she should have. Had Clayton Williams won the election against her instead of bumbling it away, we never would have heard of W."}, {"response": 49, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (08:26)", "body": "If that is true then how do you account for 50% of the electorate voting for GWB? There's a famous quote that works rather well here. Think it was PT Barnum or similar who said no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. :-)"}, {"response": 50, "author": "Tineke", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (09:20)", "body": "They're having a field day with all this at http://www.theonion.com ; Clinton declaring himself president for life, Serbia sending peacekeeping forces to the US, etc."}, {"response": 51, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (12:03)", "body": "Thanks for the URL, Tine! Karen - good point. Fortunately, just the photo ops will change - not the politics as usual, and in our past, there have been worse election mess than this one - the current TIME Magazine tells all about it!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "Moon", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (17:45)", "body": "LOL, Tineke, thanks. (Karen), Think it was PT Barnum or similar who said no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. :-) And he lived and voted in Florida. ;-)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, Nov 20, 2000 (23:55)", "body": "Yeah, The Onion take on it was fantastic. Clinton declaring himself President for Life was classic :-) I love that quote, Karen :)"}, {"response": 54, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov 21, 2000 (11:21)", "body": "THE BALLOT COUNTING, ACCORDING TO DR. SEUSS: Can we count them with our nose? Can we count them with our toes? Should we count them with a band? Should we count them all by hand? If I do not like the count, I will simply throw them out! I will not let this vote count stand, I do not like them, and AlGore I am! Can we change these numbers here? Can we change them, calm my fears? What do you mean Dubya has won? That is not fair! It ruins my fun! Let's count them upside down this time Let's count until the state is mine! I will not let THIS vote count stand! I do not like it, and AlGore I am! I'm really ticked, I'm in a snit! You have not heard the last of it! I'll count the ballots one by one And hold each up before the sun! I'll count, recount, and count some more! You'll grow to like this little chore! I will not let this vote count stand! I do not like it, and AlGore I am! I won't leave office, stayin' here I've glued my desk chair to my rear! Tipper, Hillary, and Bubba too, Are telling me that I should SUE! \"We find the Electoral College vile! Recount the votes until WE smile! We do not want this vote to stand! We do not LIKE it, AlGore-I-am!\" How shall we count THIS ballot box? Let's count it standing in our socks! Shall we count this one in a tree? And who shall count it, you or me? We cannot, cannot count enough! We must not stop, we must be tough! I do not want this vote to stand! I do not like it, and AlGore I am! I've counted till my fingers bleed and still can't fulfill my counting need. I'll count the tiles on the floor and even count the ones next door! And I will not say I am done until the counting says I've WON! I will not let this vote count stand! I do not like it, and AlGore I am! What's that? What? What's that you say? You think the current count should....STAY????? You do not like my counting scheme? It makes you tense? Gives you bad dreams? Foolish folks, you're wrong, you'll see! Your only care should be for ME! I will not let this vote count stand! I do not like it, and AlGore I am!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov 21, 2000 (12:17)", "body": "Subject: The PALM BEACH POKEY You put your stylus in, You pull your stylus out, You put your stylus in, And you punch Buchanan out. You do the Palm Beach Pokey And you turn the count around, That's what it's all about! You put some Gore votes in, You pull the Bush votes out, You put some Gore votes in, And you do another count. You do the Palm Beach Pokey And you turn the count around, That's what it's all about! You bring your lawyers in, You drag the whole thing out, You bring your lawyers in, And you create lots of doubt. You do the Palm Beach Pokey And you turn the count around, That's what it's all about! You let your doctors spin, You let the pundits spout, You make the retirees sue, And your people whine and pout. You do the Palm Beach Pokey And you turn the count around, That's what it's all about!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "Moon", "date": "Tue, Nov 21, 2000 (12:34)", "body": "Loved it, Marcia, thanks!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov 21, 2000 (13:28)", "body": "Quick! Call a lawyer! by Dave Kindred Don Denkinger, RECOUNT! Don Denkinger, Don Stinkinger. No way should that umpire's decision be certified, not even 15 years after the World Series in question. Jorge Orta was out at first base, was out on instant replay and will be out as long as the sun shines on this favored land. Everyone in Kansas City knew it. Everyone in St. Louis knew it. Everyone knew the judgment of the electorate. Yet only Denkinger's vote counted. He ruled Orta safe. By one man's vote, the Cardinals lost the 1985 World Series. For folks who long have wished to correct such injustices, our presidential wannabes now suggest a means to that end: take the blackguards to court. Anna Kournikova, a loser? How can that be? Not only is that unfair, it's probably unconstitutional. Next time she plays, Kournikova needs to fly in a battalion of attorneys with briefcases made heavy by motions for injunctions against topspin lobs. She should hire that guy from Al (\"If I Play Touch Football, Maybe They'll Mistake Me for JFK\") Gore's camp -- that David Boies superlawyer character with the cheap suits and expensive mind who won the government's case against Microsoft. Anybody who cuts up Bill Gates can leave Martina Hingis weepy. This Just In: Cumberland College, a 222-0 loser to Georgia Tech's 1916 football team coached by John Heisman, demands a manual recount. Yes, when all the lawyers are done in Florida deciding who's going to be president of Palm Beach, they could do big business in SportsWorld. Roger Clemens is fined $50,000 for saving the bat-boy a few steps by tossing a broken bat his way? Bob Knight is fired because he gave a lesson in manners? Marty McSorley tries to get a guy's attention and loses his job for a year? How can the NBA's tin-eared censors slap duct tape across the mouth of the musical artist Allen Iverson? Football officials now put their heads under canvas like Matthew Brady photographing Lincoln and Meade to decide if it's one foot in bounds or two. So why not let lawyers argue that it's only fair that Shaquille O'Neal, larger than your average man, should shoot free throws at a rim larger than your average rim? Just think. With enough lawyers, we'd get a recount on the Long Count fight, Jack Dempsey vs. Gene Tunney in 1927. We'd be convinced that everyone else ran the wrong way in the 1929 Rose Bowl, and Roy Riegels ran the right way. We'd understand exactly why it is that Alex Rodriguez can't play at a $20 million level unless his billboards are really, really big. The American sweetheart, Shirley Babashoff, would be given the gold medals she lost in the 1976 Olympics to all those East German swimmers who turned out to be Frau Frankensteins, fresh from pharmaceutical factories. This Just In: Lawyers for Lou Gehrig's estate want to examine Orioles box scores for pregnant/hanging/dimpled chads that were susceptible to partisan manipulation during Cal Ripken Jr.'s alleged 2,632-game streak. The Giants' Frank Gifford needed representation in the famous 1958 NFL championship game. During confusion caused by an injury to the Colts' Gino Marchetti, Gifford insists the ball was marked a yard short of where he'd carried it. That yard cost the Giants a first down and gave possession to Baltimore. Johnny Unitas then led the Colts on a last-minute drive to a tie, producing the overtime in which another Unitas drive produced Alan Ameche's game-winning touchdown. Woody Hayes could have used F. Lee Bailey. Late in the 1978 Gator Bowl, the Ohio State coach took a swing at a kid from the other team. But Hayes was OLD AND CONFUSED. He should have slugged his own quarterback, Art Schlicter, who threw the pass intercepted by Clemson's Charlie Bauman. Now we know about Schlicter's gambling habit. He might have thrown the ball right where he wanted to. Maybe Woody knew it. No way, absolutely no way, not if they recounted a thousand times, did North Carolina State defeat the Houston team starring Clyde Drexler and Akeem Olajuwon for the 1983 NCAA basketball championship. It could not happen. Trees would tap dance first, elephants would drive at Indy. It did not happen. Houston won that game, and an honest count would show it, just as a count without mischief would show that Georgetown defeated Villanova in '85. (Duke loyalists point to a mysterious 31-point gap in the play-by-play of a 103-73 loss to Las Vegas in 1990.) Poor Greg Norman. The smallest gain in a recount, he's Tiger Woods before Tiger Woods gets out of grade school. Poor Ken Norton. An honest count, he beats Muhammad Ali three times rather than once. Poor Pete Rose. He needed to stop counting. The lawyers now convened in Florida use baseball language. The old secretary of state, James Baker, dismissed an opponents' accusation with a smirk and this: \"He talked like it's the best thing since night baseball.\" The superman in the cheap suit ($200 at Macy's), David Boies, was heard to say, \"Our side hasn't been to bat yet.\" It's too much to ex"}, {"response": 58, "author": "mari", "date": "Tue, Nov 21, 2000 (14:10)", "body": "21 Rules For Being A Good Republican 1) You have to believe that the nation's current 8-year prosperity was due to the work of Ronald Reagan and George Bush, but that yesterday's gas prices are all Clinton's fault. 2) You have to believe that those privileged from birth achieve success all on their own. 3) You have to be against government programs, but expect Social Security checks on time. 4) You have to believe that government should stay out of people's lives, yet you want government to regulate only opposite-gender marriages and what your official language should be. 5) You have to believe that pollution is ok, so long as it makes a profit. 6) You have to believe in prayer in schools, as long as you don't pray to Allah or Buddha. 7) You have to believe that only your own teenagers are still virgins. 8) You have to believe that a woman cannot be trusted with decisions about her own body, but that large multi-national corporations should have no regulation or interference whatsoever. 9) You love Jesus and Jesus loves you and, by the way, Jesus shares your hatred of AIDS victims, homosexuals, and President Clinton. 10) You have to believe that society is color-blind and growing up black in America doesn't diminish your opportunities, but you still won't vote for Alan Keyes. 11) You have to believe that it was wise to allow Ken Starr to spend $50 million dollars to attack Clinton because no other U.S. presidents have ever been unfaithful to their wives. 12) You have to believe that a waiting period for purchasing a handgun is bad because quick access to a new firearm is an important concern for all Americans. 13) You have to believe it is wise to keep condoms out of schools, because we all know if teenagers don't have condoms they won't have sex. 14) You have to believe that the ACLU is bad because they defend the Constitution, while the NRA is good because they defend the Constitution. 15) You have to believe that socialism hasn't worked anywhere, and that Europe doesn't exist. 16) You have to believe the AIDS virus is not important enough to deserve federal funding proportionate to the resulting death rate and that the public doesn't need to be educated about it, because if we just ignore it, it will go away. 17) You have to believe that biology teachers are corrupting the morals of 6th graders if they teach them the basics of human sexuality, but the Bible, which is full of sex and violence, is good reading. 18) You have to believe that Chinese communist missiles have killed more Americans than handguns, alcohol, and tobacco. 19) You have to believe that even though governments have supported the arts for 5000 years and that most of the great works of Renaissance art were paid for by governments, our government should shun any such support. After all, the rich can afford to buy their own and the poor don't need any. 20) You have to believe that the lumber from the last one percent of old growth U.S. forests is well worth the destruction of those forests and the extinction of the several species of plants and animals therein. 21) You have to believe that we should forgive and pray for Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde, and Bob Livingston for their marital infidelities, but that that bastard Clinton should be impeached."}, {"response": 59, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Tue, Nov 21, 2000 (17:06)", "body": "Great ones. #11 was rip-roaringly funny, as well as #8, #13 and #19. :-)"}, {"response": 60, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Wed, Nov 22, 2000 (01:20)", "body": "They were all fantastic, Mari. And sadly they're mostly true or not too far away *sigh*. Going to cut-and-paste to my American friends :-)"}, {"response": 61, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Wed, Nov 22, 2000 (10:16)", "body": ""}, {"response": 62, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 22, 2000 (12:21)", "body": "There is no end to this... How the Grinch Stole the Election by Frank Kammuso & H. Seely Every Chad_ Down in Chad-ville_ Liked voting a lot ..._ But the Grinch,_ Who lived just north of Chad-ville_ Did NOT!_ _ The Grinch hated voting! He thought it a bore._ Now, please don't ask why. Could be Bush, could be Gore._ It could be his heart bled with liberal mush._ It could be, perhaps, that he listened to Rush._ But I think the real reason his trust was so shattered_ Was the great Grinchy view that his vote never mattered._ _ BUT_ Whatever the reason,_ Lack of trust, lack of goals,_ The Grinch dreaded that day when Chads went to the polls._ He just hated those speeches and negative ads,_ And when push came to shove, he just hated the Chads._ He just hated their theme parks, their football-team rooters,_ He just hated their gun laws, their barmaids at Hooters._ He just hated their weather, even hated their hate._ And he hated that they were a battleground state._ _ \"So they're making their choices,\" he snarled with a sneer._ \"This 'Decision Two Thousand' is practically here!_ \"They'll struggle to choose 'tween a crumb and a bum,_ \" 'Cause a voter's a voter, no matter how dumb.\"_ Then he growled, his Grinch fingers nervously drumming,_ \"I MUST find a way to keep outcomes from coming!\"_ _ For tomorrow, he knew ..._ All the flag-waving souls,_ Would again waste their efforts on Clintons or Doles._ And by then, oh, the polls! Oh, the polls! Polls! Polls! Polls!_ That's the one thing he hated! The POLLS! POLLS! POLLS! POLLS!_ _ So the Chads, rich and poor, and by bus, car, or boat,_ They would vote! And they'd vote!_ And they'd VOTE! VOTE! VOTE! VOTE!_ They would vote to ban smoking or clearing your throat._ They would even vote laws in for curbing your goat._ _ And THEN ..._ They'd sing that anthem. It always came later._ Be they Bush-ites or Gore-ites or ites of Ralph Nader._ They'd stand close together, and though still full of fight,_ They'd stand and they'd sing, by that dawn's early light._ _ And the more the Grinch thought of Election Day's ring,_ The more the Grinch thought, \"I must stop this whole thing!_ \"Why, for two hundred years I've put up with it now!_ \"I MUST stop these outcomes from coming!_ \"... But HOW?\"_ _ Then he got an idea!_ Yes, a legal idea!_ THE GRINCH_ GOT AN AWFUL BUT LEGAL IDEA!_ _ \"I know just what to do!\" The Grinch laughed with a jig._ And he wove from his goat a Sam Donaldson wig._ And into the mirror he spoke with grand rancor,_ \"With this helmet of hair, they'll all think I'm an anchor!\"_ _ \"All I need are some ballots ...\"_ The Grinch looked around._ But since ballots were private, there were none to be found._ So he made his own ballot, printing letters quite little,_ And he scattered the names, running holes down the middle,_ And he stuck it together with Chad-berry spittle._ And he said, \"They'll need Einstein to figure this riddle!\"_ _ THEN He loaded his boxes, and without looking nervous_ Put a sign on his van that said \"Voter News Service.\"_ THEN_The Grinch pulled away in his van with a screech_ Toward the pads of the Chads in a place called \"Palm Beach.\"_ _ When he came to the first polling place in the square,_ All the lines were quite long. Thoughtful talk filled the air,_ As the Chads chatted merits of managed health care._ \"Vote early and often,\" the Grinch said with a grin._ And he marched to the front of the line and stepped in._ _ There he left all his ballots, the strange ones with punches,_ And instructions that said, \"Please punch punches in bunches.\"_ As he slunk out the door toward the nearest Grand Hyatt,_ He could hear what you'd think was an Eli\ufffdn riot._ The Cohens-sisters Esther, Mitzi, and Shannon,_ Just realized their votes had all gone to Buchanan!_ _ At a place in Dade County near a middle-school yard,_ The Grinch donned a shirt that said, \"Polling Place Guard.\"_ And he eyeballed each Chad and said, \"Where is your card?_ \"Voter card? Motor card? Credit card? Diner's?_ \"Face card? Race card? Baseball card? Shriners?\"_ And he turned them away. Then the Grinch, like a fox,_ Stuffed all of his ballots and locked the lockbox!_ _ Then old Grinch returned home to go \"LIVE\" on TV._ He had waited quite late: (It was now eight oh three.)_ So the Grinch Network News first projected a score:_ \"Now with one percent in, we pick Chad-ville for GORE.\"_ Every Gore-ite in Chad-ville said, \"GIVE US SOME MORE!\" _ _ So he pulled more projections straight out of his stack._ Then, \"Oh, dear!\" said the Grinch, \"I must take it all back!\"_ So the Grinch Network News, in grand fairness to all_ Now reported that Chad-ville was \"TOO CLOSE TO CALL.\"_ _ \"Don't be mad, all you Chads, for this isn't a scandal,_ \"It was just,\" the Grinch said, \"we forgot the Panhandle._ \"The science of sampling can leave one out-simpled.\"_ So the Chads were left hanging and pregnant and dimpled._ And the stress of it all made George Bush boiled and pimpled! _ _ Then the Grinch raised a finger for the nigh"}, {"response": 63, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 22, 2000 (14:40)", "body": "The people who vote decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. ---Josef Stalin."}, {"response": 64, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Nov 23, 2000 (12:46)", "body": "The average man votes below himself; he votes with half a mind or a hundredth part of one. A man ought to vote with the whole of himself, as he worships or gets married. A man ought to vote with his head and heart, his soul and stomach, his eye for faces and his ear for music; also (when sufficiently provoked) with his hands and feet. If he has ever seen a fine sunset, the crimson colour of it should creep into his vote... The question is not so much whether only a minority of the electorate votes. The point is that only a minority of the voter votes. -G. K. Chesterton"}, {"response": 65, "author": "patas", "date": "Thu, Nov 23, 2000 (14:45)", "body": "(MarciaH)The people who vote decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. ---Josef Stalin. Love it! Is this a true quote?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Nov 23, 2000 (17:43)", "body": "It is one of those quotes supplied to me by an email service, and they have many resources available. Yes, I do believe it is a true quote. Frightening, is it not?! That is one of the reasons we have our President's actions subject to approval of the Congress ( both The Senate and The House of Representatives) - It renders it less likely that rampant arrogance will go unobstructed by an egomaniac or fool in the White House."}, {"response": 67, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov 24, 2000 (13:05)", "body": "NEW FLORIDA SLOGANS... FLORIDA: If you think we can't vote, wait till you see us drive. FLORIDA: Home of electile dysfunction. FLORIDA: We count more than you do. FLORIDA: If you don't like the way we count then take I-95 and visit one of the other 56 states. FLORIDA: We've been Gored by the bull of politics and we're Bushed. FLORIDA: Relax, Retire, ReVote. FLORIDA: Viagra voters do it again! FLORIDA: What comes after 17,311? FLORIDA: Where our vote counts and counts and counts. FLORIDA: This is what you get for taking Elian away from us. FLORIDA: We don't just cheat in football. FLORIDA: We're number one! Wait! Recount!"}, {"response": 68, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov 24, 2000 (13:14)", "body": "TOP 10 SIGNS PEOPLE ARE SICK OF HEARING ABOUT THE ELECTION TOP 10 SIGNS PEOPLE ARE SICK OF HEARING ABOUT THE ELECTION 10. In order to boost up ratings, the evening news is airing re-runs. 9. Psychiatrists report an increase of \"Chad\"-related suicides. 8. Bush now claims that his middle initial stands for \"Whatever.\" 7. The headline in the morning paper reads \"Same Shit, Different Day.\" 6. Hospital patients who have recently come out of a coma are asking doctors to help them go back into one. 5. Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris suggests replacing vote re-count with more expedient \"paper-scissor-rock\" method. 4. Making a public appearance together, Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat beg the U.S. to \"settle this thing already.\" 3. A frustrated Lieberman remarks that even \"Chanukah doesn't last this long.\" 2. No longer willing to fight for a re-vote, Palm Beach residents claim that they will settle for a new season of \"Matlock.\" 1. Marching on Capitol Hill, protesters shout, \"Bring back Monica!\""}, {"response": 69, "author": "patas", "date": "Fri, Nov 24, 2000 (14:20)", "body": "This is a really entertaining election... I love some of those slogans, Marcia, and that #7 sign is tops! :-)"}, {"response": 70, "author": "Moon", "date": "Fri, Nov 24, 2000 (15:21)", "body": "I wanted to post Dave Barry s comment from yesterday s Miami Herald but it has not been put up yet. It was so funny! As you know he is a Floridian. In fact, he lives close to my house."}, {"response": 71, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov 24, 2000 (19:16)", "body": "Dave kill me, he is so funny! Please post it if you see it first. I can hardly wait!!!"}, {"response": 72, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Dec  1, 2000 (18:48)", "body": "I just got it from a reliable source that this is going to be G. W. Bush's Inaugural Address Song (to the tune of \"What a Wonderful World\" by Sam Cooke) Don't know much about history Don't know much foreign policy Don't remember how I got through school I'm sure I didn't break the rules But what's it matter 'cause my granny says \"Boy, if you want to you can be the prez And what a wonderful world this will be\" Don't know much about the women's vote Don't know much about the bill I wrote Don't know much about the foreign vets I've never voted for 'em yet But I do know if your dad tries hard He can get you in the National Guard And what a wonderful place that can be Now I never claimed to be an A student But what's wrong with C's? And maybe by knowing the names of my cabinet I can win their love for me Don't know much about air pollution Don't know much about the constitution Don't know much about th'economy It never much affected me But there's one thing that I know for sure If the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor What a wonderful world this will be Don't know much about the national debt I've never had to pay one yet If we need to we can sell the States To the Japanese at discount rates But I do know if things get bad Dick and I can always call my dad And what a wonderful world this will be"}, {"response": 73, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Dec  2, 2000 (09:26)", "body": ":-)"}, {"response": 74, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Dec  2, 2000 (12:53)", "body": "That Marci has some good sources!"}, {"response": 75, "author": "patas", "date": "Sat, Dec  2, 2000 (13:22)", "body": "Loved it. I knew the tune as sung by Paul Simon, who's Sam Cooke?"}, {"response": 76, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Sat, Dec  2, 2000 (15:36)", "body": "Did Paul Simon do that one? Sam Cooke was from the 1960s (maybe); his version is the most famous. If you've ever seen the movie Witness with Harrison Ford, they use this song in the barn scene, where he's trying to fix his car and then dances with Kelly McGinnis, the Amish woman."}, {"response": 77, "author": "patas", "date": "Mon, Dec  4, 2000 (05:25)", "body": "I saw the movie, but don't remember the soundtrack :-) Yes, Paul definitely sang it."}, {"response": 78, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Dec  8, 2000 (18:18)", "body": "FOUR YEARS LATER: December 30, 2004 / Washington, D.C. (Associated Press) After four years of legal wrangling, George W. Bush was finally declared the winner of the 2000 presidential election yesterday. Bush, a Republican, will take the oath of office at noon today and serves until Jan. 20, 2005, a term of about three weeks. Then he gives way to the winner of the 2004 presidential election, New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Greenspan (formerly Clinton). Facing a drastically shortened presidency, Bush attempted to strike an optimistic tone last night. \"We have a lot to accomplish in the next three weeks,\" Bush said. \"Reforming Social Security alone is probably going to eat up four-five hours. Let's get to work!\" Aides yesterday were calling temporary employment agencies in a frantic effort to fill Cabinet posts. Bush's victory ends a four-year court battle between him and Democratic candidate Al Gore over the results of the 2000 election. While the dispute raged on, the nation installed an interim president - New York Yankees Manager Joe Torre. Torre admitted that running a country and a baseball team simultaneously has been a strain. \"At times, it's been difficult to keep the two things straight. Although, in retrospect, trading Jesse Helms to the Red Sox turned out OK.\" Torre's four years in office were marked by continued prosperity at home and relative calm abroad. His most controversial move was appointing Yankees bench coach Don Zimmer to the Supreme Court. Critics charged that Zimmer lacked experience. He also spit tobacco juice on Antonin Scalia's shoes, angering conservatives. Torre's boldest foreign policy initiative was making Cuba the 51st state in an effort to improve U.S. pitching. Torre was planning to vacate the White House by midnight tonight, with Bush moving in immediately. Eager to give an aura of permanency to his three-week administration, Bush rebuffed suggestions that he sleep on a bare mattress on the floor and live out of suitcases. Gore, meanwhile, has yet to concede defeat. The former vice president issued a statement today saying, \"It would be improper and disrespectful to the democratic process to act hastily before all the facts are known.\" The legal tangle over the 2000 election began with a Gore lawsuit over the confusing design of ballots in Florida. When the courts sided with Gore, Bush filed suit, arguing that the Oregon results were invalid because some ballots were yellow and others pink. Gore countersued, charging that the West Virginia results should be thrown out because some people failed to receive \"I Voted Today\" stickers. Through the years, various officials proposed compromises to resolve the impasse. All were rejected, including: * Establishing a co-presidency, with the two men sharing duties and splitting the White House. Although never implemented, the idea gave rise to a hit TV show, East Wing, West Wing. * Establishing temporarily separate nations, with each candidate ruling the states he won in the 2000 election. Gore, who failed to carry his native Tennessee, balked at the idea because it would mean showing a passport every time he went home. * Letting Jimmy Carter sort it all out. Observers said the biggest challenge for the Bush administration will be working with Congress, which adjourns tomorrow and isn't expected back until after Bush's term ends. \"One day may not be quite enough time to overhaul the tax system,\" a Bush aide admitted. \"But maybe we can get started and then finish it later with a big conference call or something.\" Meanwhile, Bush also must work on his legacy and prepare to transfer power to President-elect Greenspan. She yesterday wished Bush well and asked if she could start moving some boxes into the White House basement."}, {"response": 79, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Fri, Dec  8, 2000 (18:25)", "body": "\"At times, it's been difficult to keep the two things straight. Although, in retrospect, trading Jesse Helms to the Red Sox turned out OK.\" \"One day may not be quite enough time to overhaul the tax system,\" a Bush aide admitted. \"But maybe we can get started and then finish it later with a big conference call or something.\" LOL! Don Zimmer on the Supreme Court! Ha! He used to be a coach for the Cubs. Good one, Marsh. BTW, looks like the Florida Supreme Court has just breathed some major life into Gore's position."}, {"response": 80, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Dec  8, 2000 (18:40)", "body": "Yeah, when I got this forwarded to me - about 4 years from now... it somehow sounded a little less ridiculous than it would have a month ago. Glad we ae at least laughing about it - it keeps us sane!"}, {"response": 81, "author": "patas", "date": "Fri, Dec 15, 2000 (08:20)", "body": "Now that it's settled in the US, why not send Al Gore to us? We are about to have our presidential elections too and may need help with the recounts ;-) Actually, we do re-votes when in doubt."}, {"response": 82, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Jan 24, 2001 (19:34)", "body": ""}, {"response": 83, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Jan 24, 2001 (19:35)", "body": "http://www.hugedisk.com/story.asp?ar_id=57 politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 21, "subject": "George W. Bush Presidency", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Jan 20, 2001 (10:52)", "body": "... approaching the swearing in."}, {"response": 2, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Jan 20, 2001 (10:58)", "body": "Cheney just got sworn in. politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 22, "subject": "Democrats take control of Senate", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, May 31, 2001 (21:24)", "body": "Very very important news that. Bush will be moribund on his controversial reform programme - most importantly, though, on Supreme Court appointments. \"Pro-choice\"-ers should be celebrating!!!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun  1, 2001 (11:08)", "body": "It will preserve some balance in the system as we move beyond the huge tax cut. Meanwhile Jeffords approval rating in VT. has soared to 70%, an all time high., though his death threats are also at an all time high. politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 23, "subject": "Bill Clinton talk show on NBC?", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May  3, 2002 (12:28)", "body": "LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Television talk show viewers may be saying goodbye to Rosie O'Donnell and Sally Jesse Raphael, but are they ready to say hello to Bill Clinton? And is he ready to say hello to them? The 55-year-old former president met NBC executives this week about the possibility of hosting a talk show of his own at the Los Angeles offices of his old friend, TV producer Harry Thomason. There was some disagreement over who called the meeting. Clinton's spokeswoman Julia Payne confirmed that it took place but said the ex-president was listening to proposals, not demanding his own show. http://story.news.yahoo.com/newstmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=5&u=/nm/20020502/ts_nm/media_clinton_dc_5"}, {"response": 2, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, May  5, 2002 (13:46)", "body": "Former presidents have been going on the lecture circuit for decades--isn't television the natural extension to going on the road? Makes perfect sense to me. politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 24, "subject": "Stock Market Crash of 2002", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 25, "subject": "JFKs secret suffering - noble or deceitful?", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Jul  2, 2006 (12:53)", "body": "Stoic hero. politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 26, "subject": "maxformayor.com", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "chupacabra", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 2003 (15:39)", "body": "OK I have some time and am grokking around in here. Whaer is the admin forum? I know as soon as I post this I will prolly find it."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan  8, 2003 (16:06)", "body": "This is the public forum."}, {"response": 3, "author": "film", "date": "Sun, Feb  2, 2003 (11:55)", "body": "I'm curious about Max's stands on Barton Springs, jobs (I'm a tech worker), transportation (what's his stand on Cap Metro? I have a lot of friends who say it needs improvement). What's his energy policy for Austin?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 2003 (03:30)", "body": "There's now an austinmayor conference that has topics for all the candidates which you can find at http://austinmayor.com politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 27, "subject": "austinmayor.com", "response_count": 5, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "wer", "date": "Fri, Feb 21, 2003 (09:01)", "body": "From this week's Austin Chronicle, February 21, 2003: \"Stay current on the mayor's race at www.austinmayor.com, a blog that seeks contributions from candidate's campaigns. Voters can also join in the hot online action through chats, forums, conferences, feedback forums, straw polls, and other interactivities. For now, the site's most useful elements are its cluster of campaign-related articles and a beefy list of Austincentric links.\" - Lauri Apple"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Feb 24, 2003 (08:08)", "body": "Weeeeeee!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar  1, 2003 (11:02)", "body": "Come on Austin! Let's hear from you. What do you think about the Mayor's race? Don't just lurk around and hold it in, let it out. Let it out. Put your comments here in your topic and make your opinion heard!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "wer", "date": "Tue, Mar  4, 2003 (13:15)", "body": "For those who haven't seen this and/or don't know... http://www.madkane.com/madpicks.html"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 29, 2003 (19:32)", "body": "AustinMayor.com now has it's very own conference with topics for each mayor candidate etc. We'll be moving this discussion to that conference. The conference is called austinmayor politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 28, "subject": "Austin smoking ordinance", "response_count": 3, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May  6, 2003 (08:28)", "body": "This is about choice and business owners right to choose what they do with their business. They can choose to have a smoking (under the current somewhat strict ordinance) or nonsmoking ordinance. Right now, we have a 4-3 vote for the ordinance. Going in to Thursdays vote. A bunch of folks are meeting at Councilman Darryl Slusher's office at 5:00 pm tonight at Colorado and 8th to express their views on this issue. Bob Cole, KVET morning talk show host, will be there."}, {"response": 2, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jul 15, 2003 (22:55)", "body": "Hot topic in the Denver area as well... Boulder has sucessfully implemented a smoking ban in all facilities but things aren't going so well here..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jul 16, 2003 (08:40)", "body": "They're backing down already on the Austin ban since Will Wynn got in to office. He's asked for a postponement so they can reconsider and possibly put a revote to the McCrackin Council. politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 29, "subject": "Will it be a crime in Texas to run Linux?", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 3, "subject": "Austin's City Council", "response_count": 3, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "budabob", "date": "Wed, Jun 14, 2000 (21:01)", "body": "The Microstate Forum PROVE IT OR REMOVE IT UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Message posted by Robert Moore (enenkio@enenkio.org) on 6/14/00 at 4:58:20 PM Message: Kingdom of EnenKio Visit the Official Web Site of EnenKio Updated Jan. 2000. As you explore the uphill battle, please take some time and assist in this plight. You may know someone who can be a bigger influence than you previously thought. Most of the battle is fought in the courts - the Internet is a great equalizer. Information is the ultimate weapon. The United States has never had a legal claim to EnenKio. Often depictated on maps as Wake Island, EnenKio is actually the property of King Remios Hermios. This claim cannot be dismissed, and EnenKio will soon be recognized as a Nation. Kiribati, Nauru and Tonga, have recently joined the UN and as the illegal activities of the US in the Pacific are slowly being undone, EnenKio will be the next nation to regain it's recognition. Send an E-mail to the Whitehouse expressing your concern and urging the United States to return EnenKio to it's rightful owner. United States President, Bill Clinton United States Vice President Al Gore First Lady Hillary Clinton Choo e a US Senator, US Congressman, Governor, Attorney General, or the United Nations. Suggested texts, cut and paste or compose your own. Please take the important step of adding the Kingdom of EnenKio to your Web pages' Nation Drag down list. Thank you very much for you time, your compliance will be appreciated. Please take the important step of correction your Wake Island reference to include the proper name of EnenKio (Island of the Orange Flower). Adding this additional reference may not take much of your time, but it will add tremendous volumes to rebuilding the nearly lost heritage of these Pacific Islands. Please take the time to assist in correcting the blotch on America's humanitarian record and return the Ownership of EnenKio (Wake Island) to it's rightful owners. I strongly urge you to use the powers of your position to undertake any and all tasks necessary to have your Government recognize the Kingdom of EnenKio and urge that the United States correct past errors. Wake Island should be recognized a \"Kingdom of EnenKio\", or simply \"EnenKio\". If you are concerned about the accuracy of this, please feel free to research the legality of the American claim. You will find that EnenKio is the proper name. Failing that, you should at least reference that the claim is in dispute, much like the CIA factbook. Thanks in Advance and sorry about the nuisance. The Kingdom of EnenKio has about 4,000 citizens. Their island is being illegally occupied by the United States. There is currently a court battle to return the Islands to their rightful owner. Please recognize this sovereign nation by including EnenKio in your countries list. Recognition is an important push - so please when you stop on a web page - and the country drag down does not include a listing for EnenKio - please send the Web Master a polite e-mail asking that EnenKio be included. Any Mention of Wake Island should include a link to http://www.enenkio.wakeisland.org . Requests Sent to: Site www.flags.net Contact graham@flags.net 1/2000 Site www.abcnews com Country Information / Contact abcsuggestions-l@list2.starwave.com 11/99 Site Flags of the World Contact rob.raeside@acadiau.ca 1/2000 Site www.countries.com Contact webmaster@countries.com 11/99 Site http://www.travel-finder.com/feedback.htm 11/99 If these sites have spent a long time since initial contact - feel free to pass along your sentiments. If you find new ones cc: me your contact or report them to me and I will ask them for a correction. Once corrected please make sure we add them to the corrected list: Working on it: These sites have acknowledged reciept of a request to correct their listings to correct their reference to Wake Island as EnenKio, they may need a 'thank you' note for the consideration - and some encouragement down the correct path. Site MSN Encarta on Line Contact Mailed via Form 11/99 Issued CASE_ID_NUM: SRX991117600786 and assured a team of fact checkers is going to confirm. Site setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu Contact anderson@surf.com 1/2000 Thanks for the mail. I really can't p t in disputed countries: Acknowledgment / Corrections / Recognition / Links received from: www.southern-cherokee.com/news/index.html Has signed a http://www2.cybercities.com/e/enenkio/news7.htm treaty of recognition and friendship. www.inmotionmagazine.com/pacific.html The Indigenous Rights Movement in the Pacific. www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/2022/enenkio/index.html This Social Studies project shows the fraud of the United States. www.pica-org.org/websurf/websurf Pacific Islanders' Cultural Association www.dreamscape.com/morgana/nereid.htm [see link Illegal Occupation] www.marconipacific.com/pacific.htm A Venture Management Company. www.arpla.univ-paris8.fr/sites/ml/majcountry.htm www.emulateme.com/wakeisland.htm Same Information as CIA fa"}, {"response": 2, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Jun 16, 2000 (01:40)", "body": "What's your role in all this, Robert Moore?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Jul  2, 2006 (05:12)", "body": "Mayor and City Council Member Web sites Mayor Will Wynn Mayor Pro Tem Betty Dunkerley Council Member Mike Martinez Council Member Jennifer Kim Council Member Lee Leffingwell Council Member Brewster McCracken Council Member Sheryl Cole politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 30, "subject": "redistricting Texas", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jul 16, 2003 (13:56)", "body": "The http://indytexans.org site, which Spring hosts, has a petition where you can sign up for a nonpartisan, independent plan for redistricting. And there is the audio and video of their press conference at the Capitol yesterday on redistricting."}, {"response": 2, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Jul  2, 2006 (12:56)", "body": "Linda Curtis appropriated indytexans.org with some behind the scenes subterfuge. politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 31, "subject": "Sarbox or Sarbanes Oxley - making corporations responsible for accouting", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 32, "subject": "bush2004.com", "response_count": 6, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar  5, 2004 (09:00)", "body": "http://bush2004.com/buybush Bids start a half mil."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar  5, 2004 (16:20)", "body": "Press Release Bush2004.com bidding to start at half a million dollars Austin, Texas March 5, 2004 - \"The Republicans have manipulated the consolidation of the ownership of our media. We are consolidating the satire of this political process\", said a Bush 2004.com spokesman at a press conference in reaction to the news that bush2004.com has been put up for auction on Ebay. The Bush2004.com spokesperson stated, \"For any Democracy to function effectively the electorate must be well informed on the issues. The news reaching Americans is no longer objective. What we are providing at bush2004.com is an alternative source of information on the issues concerning the 2004 Presidential Election. And we're doing it with a sense of humor.\" Bush2004.com, a leading satire and news web site that has been visited by over a million people since its launch in February, 2004, announces the availability of its domain name for sale on Ebay. The founder originally created the site to be a place for objective discussion on the Presidential Election. The Internet's world wide web has transformed the political fund-raising process with web sites like moveon.org and deanforamerica.com raising millions of dollars for political campaigns. During the 2000 Presidential election, the owners of bush2004.com ran georgebush2000.com which had over 80 million visitors. Currently, the site is a satirical look at American Presidential politics with irreverent articles by Michael Smith, famed author of \"The Madness of King George\" but it also carries news from other sources such as the leading political weblogs or \"blogs\", MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc.. The owners request that any persons seeking to start a \"porn\" site avoid the bidding, as they do not support these types of activities. Current bidding on a similar domain name, http://whitehouse.com is currently at 2 million dollars according to it's owner, Daniel Parisi of New York City, NY. The domain name auction ends March 12 at 5:32:17 PST or 8:32:17 am EST and 7:32:17 am CST The site has a lively \"blog\" or weblog of it's own which is usually on the cutting edge of the news of the presidential race. The site has a large and growing user community, made up of Republicans, Independents and Democrats. Statistics are available upon request. But the owners say \"the numbers are significant\". The Owners can be contacted at 512-699-4000. Serious inquiries only, please. The Bush2004.com website went on sale today for $500,000. The Austin, Texas based owner is advertising the site at http://bush2004.com/press and on Ebay at this link: Ebay Listing of Bush2004.com Item number: 3082825893 Main category: Computers:Other Hardware & Services:Domain Names:.com Start price: $499,000.00 End date: March12, 2004 at 5:32 PST Contact Bush2004.com Headquarters 100 Congress 21st Floor Austin, Texas 78701 512-699-4000 press@bush2004.com"}, {"response": 3, "author": "wer", "date": "Wed, Mar 10, 2004 (12:53)", "body": "Hmmm, no bidders yet. If no one bids, I wonder if the site will be put up for auction again at a lower price, or for a longer bidding time?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Mar 10, 2004 (13:43)", "body": "Lower, longer. Suggestions?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Wed, Nov  3, 2004 (19:36)", "body": "could you just blow it up; just a symbolic act... nothing too \"John Woo\"."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 18, 2005 (16:32)", "body": "Plamegate: The civil war Valerie Plame and Joseph Wilson are considering a civil suit against administration officials. If they do, they'd better be ready for a vicious attack by White House proxies. By Michael Scherer Oct. 18, 2005 | Within days, if not hours, the special prosecutor in the CIA leak case will announce the outcome of his two-year investigation. But Patrick Fitzgerald probably won't have the last word. For months now, ambassador Joseph Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame, the covert CIA agent unmasked by the White House, have been preparing to file a civil lawsuit against the Bush administration officials who disclosed her identity and scuttled her career. ... If they do sue, Wilson and Plame could be the first litigants to depose senior White House officials since Paula Jones, an employee of the state of Arkansas, opened a can of worms by suing President Bill Clinton for allegedly exposing himself in a Little Rock hotel room. In a deposition for the Jones lawsuit, Clinton lied under oath about his relationship with another woman, Monica Lewinsky, a White House intern, triggering his impeachment by the House of Representatives and the disclosure of oral sex in the Oval Office. \"The questions can range far afield. You can ask all kinds of stuff,\" said Gilbert Davis, an attorney who represented Jones in her sexual harassment lawsuit. \"You can start free-wheeling with all kinds of discovery methods.\" http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/10/18/plame_probe/index.html politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 33, "subject": "political blogs - the finest ones", "response_count": 13, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar 22, 2004 (14:10)", "body": "http://www.atrios.org http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com http://www.dailykos.com http://atrios.blogspot.com http://www.burntorange.com for openers"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar 22, 2004 (14:11)", "body": "http://agonist.org Excellent."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Mar 22, 2004 (15:08)", "body": "http://angrybear.blogspot.com/ http://atrios.blogspot.com/ http://agonist.org http://billmon.org/ http://burntorgangereport.com http://camworld.com http://cowpundit.com http://dailyhowler.com/ http://dailykos.com http://gadflyer.com/ http://juancole.com/ http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3449870/ http://talkingpointsmemo.com http://washingtonmonthly.com/ http://muniwireless.com http://watchblog.com http://shiapundit.blogspot.com That's a starter list, alphabetic order."}, {"response": 4, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Apr  2, 2004 (17:57)", "body": "www.smirkingchimp.com is not a blog, but a very cool site dedicated to the defeat of the smirking chimp... always good stuff there..."}, {"response": 5, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Fri, Oct 15, 2004 (15:30)", "body": "This isn't a blog either, but I thought I'd drop it off anyway. Found on snopes.com and had a good chuckle. Confirmed true, by the way (however coincidental it is). FOOTBALL + ELECTION Did you know....?? The Washington Redskins have proved to be a time-tested election predictor. In the previous 15 elections, if the Washington Redskins have lost their last home game prior to the election, the incumbent party has lost the White House. When they have won, the incumbent has stayed in power. This election year, that deciding game takes place on Sunday, October 31 ... vs. Green Bay. Go Pack!!!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 20, 2004 (04:31)", "body": "You can put your (virtual) money on Green Bay in the Spring's sports pool. See topic 71 in sports. This week the Packers are 3.5 favorites over the Cowboys. Next weeks odds will be out in 7 days. I'll post those odds here. There's a pretty good list of political blogs at http://bush2004.bloki.com , btw."}, {"response": 7, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Wed, Oct 20, 2004 (19:14)", "body": "Go Green Bay! I'll even watch the game if it realy gives Kerry the White House."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 21, 2004 (07:11)", "body": "http://bush2004.bloki.com/blog it should have been. It's not this weeks game but next weeks. That's getting pretty close to election day. It must be a tradition to schedule this game right before the election?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Jul  2, 2006 (12:57)", "body": "I need to find a good list of political blogs. The best one is still at http://bush2004.com"}, {"response": 10, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Jul 16, 2006 (19:40)", "body": "Raw Story Crooks and Liars Talking Points Memo Huffington Post Daily Kos Washington Monthly Taggen Goddards Political Wire world-o-crap.com No Quarter Hullabaloo Washington Note Firedog Lake James Walcott Atrios Andrew Sullivan Gadflyer Think Progress America Blog"}, {"response": 11, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Jul 16, 2006 (19:42)", "body": "Raw Story Crooks and Liars Talking Points Memo Huffington Post Daily Kos Washington Monthly Taggen Goddards Political Wire world-o-crap.com No Quarter Hullabaloo Washington Note Firedog Lake James Walcott Atrios Andrew Sullivan Gadflyer Think Progress America Blog"}, {"response": 12, "author": "gomezdo", "date": "Sun, Jul 16, 2006 (19:45)", "body": "Thanks. I check out about 3 quarters of them periodically and one several times daily. Here's another one... Booman Tribune http://www2.boomantribune.com/"}, {"response": 13, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Mon, Jul 17, 2006 (10:36)", "body": "Good stuff! politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 34, "subject": "Presidential Debates", "response_count": 11, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 2004 (08:32)", "body": "Tuesday at 7, the Vice Presidential Debate. On all the major networks. Cheney and Edwards square off."}, {"response": 2, "author": "bayouvetty", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 2004 (09:09)", "body": "I agree that Bush didn't really lose any of his base last night. I was very interested in seeing Kerry's demeanor for myself. I thought that he seemed very presidential. He did a good job of explaining away the whole \"flip flopping\" issue IMO. It is plain that Kerry is a much better debator than Bush. I think that quality is important in a president. It will be a vital part of bringing the other world powers into a dialogue about stabilizing the volatilty in Iraq. (Terry)Bush's soundbytes which he repeated over and over. No kidding!!! Finally, at about 9:45 on his 3rd or 4th 30 sec Re-rebutal that he wasted with \"wrong, war, wrong place, wrong time\" I started yelling at the TV. I suppose that if you're someone like him, who can't think on their feet, your best defense would be to repeat that crap ad nauseum. That way he avoids more new topics that could trip him up"}, {"response": 3, "author": "gomezdo", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 2004 (09:22)", "body": "As the night wore on, Bush was obviously running out of gas.....stumbling over the same 4 sentences he says repeatedly everywhere, having to obviously and not very confidently refer to his notes more often at the beginning of his answers/rebuttals, leaning all over that podium more and more. And occasionally he looked frustrated in the split screens when Kerry was talking. Glad the networks didn't follow that crap in that contract made up by both sides of not showing the other candidate while one is speaking. Maybe the media is finally finding a few cojones when it comes to this President. Maybe too little, too late, though. Anticipating the Edwards/Cheney debate. *What* a contrast in styles!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 2004 (12:04)", "body": "Bush may have been playing to the short attention span crowd. Someone who isn't paying attention and just walks by the tv would probably hear Bush saying this catchphrase, or one of the other ones (\"he can't make up his mind\" etc.). The man Bush was criticizing just wasn't the man on the other podium. Bush got thrown off his game. He was hunched over, looked fidgety, you were wondering if he was thinking \"please go on red light, do I have to say more\". Bush does better in front of partisan crowds where he's getting a lot of positive feedback. The next debate with the town hall meeting format should favor hime more with undecided voters asking questions. It was a good \"debate\" last night in spite of the 32 pages of silly rules. The rules actually helped Kerry. Lehrer's questions seemed right on and appropos. Lehrer did an excellent job. Though Kerry \"won\" the \"debate\" there wasn't much movement in the polls. Both went up by 1% in the poll I saw. But even the Republicans were agreeing Kerry pulled this off. If nothing else, he kept his chances alive."}, {"response": 5, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 2004 (10:33)", "body": "OK... pre-warning: this post isn't about the debates. It's about the election. All this talk of different voting methods around the country. Why isn't is standardized. What does it take to get one technology, be it punch card, touch screen or in the case of my voting place fill in the dot a la SAT tests? Is the technology used a state legislated item? Shouldn't the election process be domestically uniform? This would be worth an ammendment don't you think? Or not? On the yes side, with uniformity, troubleshooting issues would be made much easier. Immediate archiving could happen (if computerized), the archive on a separate secure server. At the end the files could be compared for validity. To simple... Am I so technologically impaired that I've missed a glaring problem? Or is it all \"politics\"? *Terry, if you can create a topic in politics named simply \"U.S. Election Process\" and move this there, it would be cool. I hate to hijack topics."}, {"response": 6, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 2004 (10:43)", "body": "Shouldn't the election process be domestically uniform? i agree completely... whatever it takes, there needs to be debate, some kind of consensus... and a national election system that every voter can not only understand, but have confidence in... let the local yokels continue to control state, local elections... but the idea that the federal election process of the united states is at the mercy of partisan hacks (and worse) is unacceptable..."}, {"response": 7, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 2004 (10:48)", "body": "I think ALL elections should be using the same method. Otherwise it's like when you go shopping(simplistic example, I know); Every store has a different payment device... it's confusing from store to store, state to state. If all elections were subject to the same voting method, I think it would help eliminate some of the \"local yokel\" shinnanigans."}, {"response": 8, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 2004 (11:02)", "body": "I think ALL elections should be using the same method. i agree, but i'm not sure that's doable... all politics really is local, to a certain degree... it'd be difficult enough to pry federal election authority from the entrenched interests (especially with all the states-rights pablum that is so en vogue with the pinheads on the right)..."}, {"response": 9, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 2004 (14:20)", "body": "I understand... and agree to the difficulty involved. But idealist that I am, creating a secure universal means of voting in ANY election seems to me to be the only way to eliminate all the B.S. -- from both sides of the aisle. Yes, I'm a Dem. Yes, I was born in TX. Yes I now live in MA. I am also over 45, white, female, gay (read \"single\" by the I.R.S.), and more inclined to vote \"how does this effect me\" over \"partisan\". How's that for demographics?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 2004 (15:31)", "body": "an addendum: I realize that my particular demographic profile is one of the most ignored in the political process. I also realize it is due to the historical political apathy of single white females (both Dem & Rep). It is my hope that this election begins a turn of the tide."}, {"response": 11, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Jul  2, 2006 (12:57)", "body": "Maybe the next election will be your turning point. I got a very cleverly disguised spam disguised as coming from you today, Gena and I almost fell for it! politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 35, "subject": "Those goofy, daffy, zany Republicans", "response_count": 3, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 29, 2005 (09:24)", "body": "Delay indicted. I'll give you a moment to compose yourself. Comments?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Jul  2, 2006 (12:58)", "body": "Delay is out."}, {"response": 3, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Thu, Sep 21, 2006 (11:06)", "body": "Read a news item about this mock obit written by Ted Rall, liberal editorial cartoonist. Thought I'd post it here, in its entirety. Tuesday, September 19, 2006 Ann Coulter, 43 or 45, Conservative Commentator, Dies Well, not really. My assignment for an unnamed humor magazine whose future theme issue was death was to write an obituary in the deadpan style of the New York Times, who despite failings in other areas produces the best death notices in the American media, for the right-wing poster babe. They killed the piece, but that's what the Internet is for--to show off stuff that might never have seen the light of day. So, enjoy! In anticipation of the obvious question, all of the Coulter quotes are genuine. All else is satire. Ann Coulter, 43 or 45, Conservative Commentator, Dies Ann Coulter, the outspoken conservative columnist and the author of bestselling polemical tracts, died on Thursday at an apartment leased to Sean Hannity on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. The cause was internal bleeding in her lower aorta, said Hannity, a long-time friend. She claimed to have been 43 and listed a 1963 birthdate on her District of Columbia driver's license, but she was 45 according to her Connecticut and Florida voter registrations, as well as a duplicate driver's license she obtained from the State of Connecticut. Because her age and gender must be determined in order to comply with new counterterrorism regulations governing the identities of deceased citizens, a skin sample will be subjected to a DNA test. Ann Hart Coulter was probably born on December 8, 1961 in New York City, to her father John Vincent Coulter, a \"union buster\" lawyer (her words), and Nell Husbands Martin Coulter. Her grandfather Hunter Hart Martin was n\ufffde Hunter Hart Wiessinger, but presumably changed his name for reasons of self-hatred). Raised in New Canaan, Connecticut, Coulter attended Cornell University, where she co-founded the conservative Cornell Review and graduated cum laude in 1984. She received her law degree from the University of Michigan and eventually became a litigator for the anti-government Center for Individual Rights. Coulter died from injuries sustained on September 11, 2006, when the historic replica of a dirigible in which she was riding exploded over the Hudson River near Ground Zero in lower Manhattan, killing 11 people, six of them illegal immigrants from Honduras, on a garbage barge passing below. The German ambassador to the United Nations had invited her aboard Germany's new LZ 131 Graf Zeppelin III's maiden voyage as his guest of honor; they were watching the ceremonies commemorating the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks when the blast occurred. Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board believe that Coulter initiated the accident when she fired a pistol as she stormed the airship's flight deck in the mistaken belief that its bearded pilot was an Islamic hijacker. President Bush awarded her the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the nation's highest civilian award, for her \"valorous Valkyrie-like vigilance.\" Coulter, who simultaneously resided in Washington, New York, Connecticut and Florida, was an outspoken firebrand who defended traditional American values against what she saw as the depredations of militant secularist liberals determined to subvert them. Although privately shy, she struggled against the demons of introversion in thousands of television and lectures before packed, rapt audiences of admirers. \"I'm dreadfully afraid of the limelight,\" she once confessed during an interview with Larry King, \"but if not me, who? I have a duty.\" She was best known as the author of five epic treatises in a variety of disciplines, all of which appeared on the New York Times bestsellers list. Her first book, High Crimes and Misdemeanors: The Case Against Bill Clinton (Regnery, 1998) became an immediate literary sensation. \"Coulter's outrage at interoffice miscegenation between a sitting president and a kneeling intern serves as a convenient vehicle which she exploits in order to introduce a new voice in American letters,\" wrote a reviewer for The New Yorker. \"Her supple manipulation of the soft curves of the Romantic aspects of English language literature, coupled with sly hip-hop-infused feints at the postmodern didacticism presided over by the cult of dead irony and Amy Tan,\" said The New York Review of Books, \"has shattered the status quo. She doesn't merely write in English. She is English.\" Coulter's second work, Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right (Crown Forum, 2002), took a less lyrical tone, perhaps the result of her reliance on a 1970s-era Dictaphone to transcribe it after repeated evenings spent experimenting with acid reflux. \"Liberals hate America, they hate flag-wavers, they hate abortion opponents, they hate all religions except Islam, post 9/11,\" Coulter wrote in a passage frequently cited as the epitome of the can-do spirit of patriotism. \"The good part of being "}]}, {"num": 36, "subject": "Obama", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 30, 2005 (22:06)", "body": "Obama reads blogs, and responds in his own diary, as reposted at dailykos: http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/2005/050928_mfe_earle_1.html There is one way, over the long haul, to guarantee the appointment of judges that are sensitive to issues of social justice, and that is to win the right to appoint them by recapturing the presidency and the Senate. And I don't believe we get there by vilifying good allies, with a lifetime record of battling for progressive causes, over one vote or position. I am convinced that, our mutual frustrations and strongly-held beliefs notwithstanding, the strategy driving much of Democratic advocacy, and the tone of much of our rhetoric, is an impediment to creating a workable progressive majority in this country. According to the storyline that drives many advocacy groups and Democratic activists - a storyline often reflected in comments on this blog - we are up against a sharply partisan, radically conservative, take-no-prisoners Republican party. They have beaten us twice by energizing their base with red meat rhetoric and single-minded devotion and discipline to their agenda. In order to beat them, it is necessary for Democrats to get some backbone, give as good as they get, brook no compromise, drive out Democrats who are interested in \"appeasing\" the right wing, and enforce a more clearly progressive agenda. The country, finally knowing what we stand for and seeing a sharp contrast, will rally to our side and thereby usher in a new progressive era. I think this perspective misreads the American people. From traveling throughout Illinois and more recently around the country, I can tell you that Americans are suspicious of labels and suspicious of jargon. They don't think George Bush is mean-spirited or prejudiced, but have become aware that his administration is irresponsible and often incompetent. They don't think that corporations are inherently evil (a lot of them work in corporations), but they recognize that big business, unchecked, can fix the game to the detriment of working people and small entrepreneurs. They don't think America is an imperialist brute, but are angry that the case to invade Iraq was exaggerated, are worried that we have unnecessarily alienated existing and potential allies around the world, and are ashamed by events like those at Abu Ghraib which violate our ideals as a country... I am not drawing a facile equivalence here between progressive advocacy groups and right-wing advocacy groups. The consequences of their ideas are vastly different. Fighting on behalf of the poor and the vulnerable is not the same as fighting for homophobia and Halliburton. But to the degree that we brook no dissent within the Democratic Party, and demand fealty to the one, \"true\" progressive vision for the country, we risk the very thoughtfulness and openness to new ideas that are required to move this country forward. When we lash out at those who share our fundamental values because they have not met the criteria of every single item on our progressive \"checklist,\" then we are essentially preventing them from thinking in new ways about problems. We are tying them up in a straightjacket and forcing them into a conversation only with the converted. Beyond that, by applying such tests, we are hamstringing our ability to build a majority. We won't be able to transform the country with such a polarized electorate. Because the truth of the matter is this: Most of the issues this country faces are hard. They require tough choices, and they require sacrifice. The Bush Administration and the Republican Congress may have made the problems worse, but they won't go away after President Bush is gone. Unless we are open to new ideas, and not just new packaging, we won't change enough hearts and minds to initiate a serious energy or fiscal policy that calls for serious sacrifice. We won't have the popular support to craft a foreign policy that meets the challenges of globalization or terrorism while avoiding isolationism and protecting civil liberties. We certainly won't have a mandate to overhaul a health care policy that overcomes all the entrenched interests that are the legacy of a jerry-rigged health care system. And we won't have the broad political support, or the effective strategies, required to lift large numbers of our fellow citizens out of numbing poverty. The bottom line is that our job is harder than the conservatives' job. After all, it's easy to articulate a belligerent foreign policy based solely on unilateral military action, a policy that sounds tough and acts dumb; it's harder to craft a foreign policy that's tough and smart. It's easy to dismantle government safety nets; it's harder to transform those safety nets so that they work for people and can be paid for. It's easy to embrace a theological absolutism; it's harder to find the right balance between the legitimate role of faith in our lives and the demands of our civic religion. But that's our job... "}]}, {"num": 37, "subject": "Fight to save Hot Springs Arkansas last public bath house", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  3, 2005 (08:59)", "body": "The above quote is from the http://friendsoflibbey.com website. Friends of Libbey is the group forming to fight to keep their bath house alive. This, from their \"news\" section: This section will be devoted to reporting on the meetings and activities of the FOL group. We will also include interviews with people of interest during the process of this negotiation. Remember that if you have ideas or data of interest regarding this matter, please contact the board of directors. It isn't enough to post it on the site's blog alone. This is the site launch posting - stand-by for breaking news! NEWS : We are in contact with Randy Groden in Hawaii. He is the artist who took a year out of his life to paint the beautiful murals in the lobby of the Libbey. He is in full support of us and may give an interview which shall be presented here. You can see some of the pictures from the painting process here. We are thinking about doing an event! No ideas about what yet, but we are cooking it up! Please email me if you have any ideas on this topic. (street protest / march - mock funeral - burning effigies..etc) We should have much more info by Friday (the 14th) evening, as Pam Crow has contacted us wanting to talk. It Starts: Today (the 12th) Channel 7 TV news came out to do an interview with Bob Nagy (me) and it was part of a \"package\" which told the story of the Libby's closing on the 10:00 pm news. It was a usual sound-byte 1.5 minute local news feature. My 90 or so seconds of crafted verbiage landed up being one sentence (and the one in which I stuttered!) Luckily, the story represented the issue fairly accurately. We are grateful for station's interest in this story and encourage any of the others in the state that we've contacted (All of them) - to come by. (I've gotten call-backs from several stations already) WOW- I got news from Lauren Impson (of Exceptional Massage) that the Libbey Closing AND the Friends of Libbey were talked about on National Public Radio!!! This is the kind of national coverage that will bring this issue the kind of exposure it deserves. Lets get this snowball rolling! FLASH- At last night's City Council meeting, I connected with the leaders of the Romanian church, from which come at least half of the \"regulars\" at Libbey. They said \"We have 200 families who came here for the thermal waters, and we don't want to loose them\". We talked over strategies for saving the Libbey. He said he could get 1000 signatures for the petition! Josie Fernandez is aware of this group and has been in contact with them to try and allay their fears. They invited her to their church to talk about the issue. I will go down soon and talk to them all about what we can do. These folks all love the Libbey...and I am thrilled to get them on-board in our fight to keep our bathhouse open! NOTE: I have been told that ALL the blank petition pages have been filled at Libbey! I'll be delivering more this morning...... Well Then: Let me say welcome to the Park Service employees who read our fine site! Howdy Ya'all! How do I know they read us? Well, the girls at the Libbey got a call today from Dale Moss at the National Park Service and were told to remove our petition from the front desk. I got there right after the call with fresh blank petitions and saw that the girls were upset. Luckily I was able to get the nearly 200 signatures collected so far and will post them RIGHT NOW. I called Dale immediately and asked if this was a regulation they could show me on paper...the answer- yes. They also said that the Park Service controls the entire street that the Libbey is on. This just didn't sound right, so we put in a call to an officer at the state police, and he told us that is was under the city's control. Seems right, because if you have an accident on Reserve, it's the city cops that come. In any case, it seems that patrons are beginning to rally around us. There is a palpable feeling of concern and willingness to fight....a glimmer in folks eyes. I had several wonderful people thanking me for trying to keep our beloved Libbey alive today. They were so sincere. It really gave me hope against hope that no amount of regulations or laws or dispassionate bureaucrats can prevail against a truly righteous and decent cause. The right of access to water, which is exactly what this is about, is a primal right. If you close a library, you will not stop us from reading. If you take away our access to this cherished resource, it threatens us on a gut level. The damage to so many people's quality of life (to say nothing of the loss tourism income) is a cost which is not measurable in dollars. We love the Libbey...just the way it is...and you'll be amazed at what we will do to save it. (PS: I heard today that John Kerry said to a campaign worker \"The Bush administration's end goal is to privatize the National Park System\". (Oooo - look up -is that a comet coming?) NY Times Mindfully.org National Parks Conservation Org OneWorld.net Mackinac Cent"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  3, 2005 (09:00)", "body": "From the http://friendsoflibbey \"history\" page: The colorful history of the bathhouse located at the site of the Libbey Memorial Physical Medicine Center will be presented here as soon as we finish our research. We will also present the history of the present situation- and how we came to the juncture we are at today. We are currently obtaining lots of info on the Libbey - but to hold you over, take a look at what a bathhouse in a third-world country looks like."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  3, 2005 (09:00)", "body": "From the http://friendsoflibbey.com activism page. You can become active in helping preserve this culturally rich facility by doing some of the following: A. Join our organization and attend events B. Participate in public activities as listed on this site C. Write your congressman / senator as listed below D. View our open letter to President Bill Clinton E. Pray in your own manner that the officials making decisions in this matter respond to the sincerity of our plea. Congressman Mike Ross Staff Phone Fax 300 Exchange Street Suite A Hot Springs, AR 71901 (501) 520-5892 (501) 520-5873 Arkansas Legislature Representative Bill Sample District: 30 County: Garland Address: 2340 North Hwy. 7 Hot Springs, AR 71909 Phone: 501-321-0040 Blanche Lambert Lincoln Democrat Senior Senator 355 Dirksen Senate Office Building Washington, DC 20510 Telephone: 202-224-4843 Fax: 870-774-3106 Email: http://lincoln.senate.gov/html/webform.html Website: http://lincoln.senate.gov Full Name: Mark Pryor Party: Democrat Rank/District: Junior Senator Address: 257 Dirksen Senate Office Building Washington, DC 20510 Telephone: 202-224-2353 Fax: 501-324-6336 Email: http://pryor.senate.gov/contact/ Website: http://pryor.senate.gov/"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  3, 2005 (09:01)", "body": "You can sign their petition here: http://friendsoflibbey.com/petition.htm"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  3, 2005 (09:01)", "body": "From the http://friendsoflibbey.com join up page. New members can join here and current members are listed here. This is where it gets exciting! Please consider joining us in this worthy cause. We want to use the best tools at our disposal to make sure that Hot Springs doesn't loose all of it's wonderful character due to the intended actions or un-intended repercussions of those given power over it's future. It's time to bring local activism to the streets in Hot Springs before everything we love about this place is is systematically destroyed under the guise of \"progress\" and \"development\". When we loose sight of the true nature of Hot Springs, our quality of life and our well-being will suffer. We must remind everyone that we, the citizens of Hot Springs, are the most important factor in any equation where decisions are made involving our city. Please join us in defending this very important asset to our community. Note: We are looking for people who have time to help in the areas of: Envelope stuffing / mail-outs Pro-bono legal counsel Internet blogging Manning petition tables Article writing - press releases - media liaison Fund raising coordinator Grassroots activism Geology / Hydrology Business / incorporation"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  3, 2005 (09:02)", "body": "And they have a sort of blog: http://friendsoflibbey.com/blog.htm"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov  4, 2005 (10:01)", "body": "NPCA Press Releases - Release Details FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: November 1, 2005 CONTACT: Craig Obey, NPCA, cell: 202-669-9689 Congressional Hearing Reviews Park Management Policies Proposals Conservation Group Says New Process \"is Flawed and Should be Abandoned\" WASHINGTON, D.C. - The nonpartisan National Parks Conservation Association (NPCA) today testified at a congressional hearing on the Department of Interior's revisions to the policies that govern management of the national parks, saying that the current process \"is flawed and should be abandoned.\" Sen. Craig Thomas (R-WY) chaired the hearing of the U.S. Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources, Subcommittee on National Parks. Former Deputy Director of the National Park Service Deny Galvin testified on behalf of NPCA as a member of the organization's Board of Trustees. \"This generation owes it to the future to maintain the standards that have made it [the National Park System] great,\" Galvin said. NPCA's central question, which remains unanswered, is why the Department of Interior has chosen to pursue revising the policies at this time. No credible justification for the rewrite has been offered. \"The 2005 draft does not meet the level of protection of its predecessors,\" Galvin told the committee today. \"The 2001 document is better and should be retained.\" Preliminary assessment of the Department of Interior's proposed revisions to the existing (2001) Management Policies raises concerns that the overall impact of the language changes in the draft weaken protections for our national parklands, in particular, park air quality and wilderness, and could lead to increased use of Jet Skis, off-road vehicles, commercialization, and grazing at the cost of preservation. The draft also significantly reduces clarity provided to park managers in the current Management Policies about their overarching duty to conserve park resources. Last week, Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN) and five other Republican senators sent a letter to Secretary of the Interior Gale Norton, saying, \"the primary mandate of the National Park Service to err on the side of preservation appears to be deemphasized in the draft. At best, this change appears to blur, not clarify, the Park Service's primary responsibility to keep the parks protected for the future.\" .... \" continued at http://www.npca.org/media_center/PressReleaseDetail.asp?id=263 politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 38, "subject": "Presidential race 2008 - Hillary vs. Condie?  Or Gore vs. McCain?", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Jul 16, 2006 (19:51)", "body": "if not gore- who is my candidate of choice, if the stars align favorably- john edwards is quietly busting his ass, doing the work necessary to make himself a formidable candidate... gore-obama or maybe edwards-richardson (or edwards-obama? no, that ticket's probably too young and pretty)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Mon, Jul 17, 2006 (10:37)", "body": "I'm thinking Gore Clinton or Clinton Gore."}, {"response": 3, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Jul 17, 2006 (12:44)", "body": "i would think gore-clinton would have more resonance than clinton-gore... the fact that gore served as veep for another clinton, and actually won election in 2000 at top of the ticket, would seem a little creepy (and submissive, which would preclude gore's usefulness to the ticket)... on the other hand, the junior senator from new york might be far less polarizing at the bottom, permitting her strengths to better help the ticket... there's both novelty and symmetry to it, and it might work... that said, again, i don't believe gore would go for it- there's still bad blood between he and the clinton camp... nor do i believe she would decide to run in the second slot- at her age, and with her ambition, 8 years is a long, long time... don't count out john edwards... the guy was practically a novice to politics last time round, and he is a very quick learner (and has a coherent narrative- imagine that!)... he's been slogging it out places where the media don't go- where real politics happen, at the roots- and has an organization in place, and lots of chits owed to him... he finished second in iowa last time, and handily won a poll done there recently... if he wins there, heads into new hampshire with some steam and wins again, he would be difficult to beat... bill richardson is a very appealing guy, has proven popular even among repubs in his state, and has an obvious appeal to a very important, growing demographic (and talk about symmetry)... obama may be too young still, but he has tremendous skills, and wide appeal of his own (not to mention a sense of destiny about him- that will wear off if he waits too long to make his move)..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Mon, Jul 17, 2006 (15:42)", "body": "I've been following the Edwards podcasts, they're pretty cool. But I have to like Gore's strength's and we' re running out of time with the Earth in peril."}, {"response": 5, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Jul 17, 2006 (18:37)", "body": "gore is a case of a man being supremely able to be president, and probably the most suitable choice for his time... (this indicates to me that he probably has no chance, but who knows?)..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Mon, Jul 17, 2006 (19:03)", "body": "Also the only man interested in saving the Earth. Worth considering."}, {"response": 7, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Tue, Jul 18, 2006 (11:07)", "body": "http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-29385328971143264 Unseen Al Gore campaign video!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Jul 23, 2006 (17:34)", "body": "(from wash. post.com) Another Kind of Gore '08 Bandwagon By Michael Grunwald Sunday, July 23, 2006; B03 It is difficult to speculate about the politics of global warming without speculating about former vice president Al Gore. He says he's campaigning only against greenhouse gases these days, but as he basks in the success of his new movie, it's hard not to wonder whether the man who came so close to the presidency wants to take another shot. But there's a more logical job for Gore to pursue, a job that doesn't make any sense until you think about it. It's a job that would give him the power to do something about global warming, along with other major issues close to his heart, without highlighting his political deficiencies. It's a job where it helps to be wonkish, and doesn't really hurt to be wooden. And it's a job he knows how to do -- because he already did it for eight years. Yes, Al Gore should run for vice president. John Nance Garner famously said that the vice presidency wasn't worth a bucket of warm spit, and for Garner (who served under FDR) it probably wasn't. But it is now, a trend that began with one Albert Gore Jr. Gore was one of President Bill Clinton's most trusted White House advisers, lunching with him every Tuesday, encouraging him to sign a controversial welfare reform bill, persuading him to bomb Serbia. Gore also oversaw the administration's environmental policies, launched a dorky but effective \"reinventing government\" campaign, and demolished Ross Perot in a free-trade debate. He was often described as the most powerful vice president in history. And he was, until he was succeeded and supplanted by Dick Cheney, a former White House chief of staff, defense secretary and head of George W. Bush's vice presidential search committee. Cheney's control over Bush may be more myth than fact, but it's no myth that he wields unprecedented clout for a number two -- on foreign policy, energy policy, just about every policy. Cheney has become a kind of chief operating officer for the federal government, pulling levers behind the scenes, working his Washington contacts. And Bush has never seen him as a threat, in large part because he's ruled out running for president himself. That's a perfect model for Gore, a distinguished public servant with limited political skills. His most noted stumbles while in office were political stumbles -- fundraising follies such as collecting campaign cash at a Buddhist temple, his PR-deaf \"no controlling legal authority\" explanation of said follies, his over-the-top defense of Clinton in the Monica Lewinsky scandal, and then his tortured efforts to distance himself from Clinton during his campaign. The inconvenient truth is that as a politician, Gore has always been more successful in a supporting role. In the Senate, he was a visionary on environmental issues, nuclear proliferation and, yes, the Internet, which he never did claim he invented. And people forget that his addition to the ticket in 1992 helped jump-start the Clinton campaign. But Gore never seemed comfortable as a presidential candidate; he surrounded himself with consultants who deluged him with bad (Don't mention Clinton!), frivolous (Wear earth tones!) and conflicting advice. He ended up bringing three different demeanors to his three debates. He never talked about the environment and other issues close to his heart, and he never sounded as genuine as he did in his movie. The reaction to Gore's movie has been impressive, but it doesn't change the fact that he misplayed a winning hand in 2000. He gives great lecture, but mediocre stump speech. And global warming isn't yet a central issue to build a presidential campaign around. On the other hand, it's ideal for a vice presidential candidate, suggesting a ticket ready to grapple with the challenges of the future. The only problem with the Gore-for-VP scenario is that it's hard to imagine Gore going along with it. He never saw himself as a number two, and someone would have to convince him that number one is not in the cards. But would it really be such an affront to his ego to assume Cheney's huge responsibilities? Couldn't he be convinced that it would help his party, his nation and his global warming crusade to provide elder-statesman heft for a more inspiring politician such as Illinois Sen. Barack Obama? History honors John Quincy Adams for his journey from the presidency to the House; why wouldn't it honor Gore for returning to his old job? Of course, the current Democratic front-runner, Hillary Rodham Clinton, is a longtime Gore rival, and a new Clinton-Gore ticket is too far-fetched even for a thought experiment. But who knows? Maybe if Gore agreed to run with Obama or John Edwards or Mark Warner before the primaries, there would be a new Democratic front-runner. That just might be reason enough for him to do it. -- Michael Grunwald \ufffd 2006 The Washington Post Company politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 39, "subject": "Obama", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Fri, Aug 22, 2008 (21:40)", "body": "http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp Is Obama a US Citizen? politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 4, "subject": "Ramble", "response_count": 514, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (18:59)", "body": "I've been holed up here all day but I don't have cabin fever. I love it at my place. It's night time. Outside it's drizzling. I've been building new boxes to put on the net, reading, studying and writing today. The evening news is on the tube. I feel like making a pot of coffee. I keep getting a box on my screen that says my outbox in Microsoft Mail is damaged. My outbox is empty! I got some interesting email from Elizabeth Gipps, an old friend today. And that's part of my world tonight."}, {"response": 2, "author": "Saman", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (19:02)", "body": "I can't believe I'm actually doing this - I usually steer clear of such threads :). But then this has not been a typical day! I baked muffins for the first time in my life (my mother is slightly obsessive about anyone cooking in her kitchen, but she's w orking at the moment) and they were a success. Hey I'm doing better than the Bennet girls - they couldn't cook. I also just got rudely interrupted from my spring-browsing by a door-to-door salesman wanting to give me a voucher for 20 free meals - only I'd have to pay $30 for it! I blame Neil Finn for it all. Huh? I hear you say. Mr Finn was lead vocalist for Crowded House - my all-time favourite band who announced they were breaking up in June. Their final charity concert on the steps of the Sydney Opera House was televised he re on Sunday, and I'm am currently slowly working my way through a grieving process involving contimuous playing of all my Crowded House CDs - maybe that's why the salesman looked happy to depart. Top that people!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (19:08)", "body": "Tough to top. The only rule in this topic is that are no rules and that you can talk about anything and everything . Total free form."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (19:58)", "body": "During my one excursion outside, I acquired a stud finder and 16 yards of unbleached muslin. Prize for the most creative use of these wares."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (20:20)", "body": "Hope you find that stud. I'm kicked back watching the music awards on Fox. And I'm scanning in some ancient family photos of my Norwegian relatives in Minnesota. I'm building sort of a family album web page for my folks and family at Christmas. It's my life story too. Dishwalla's playing on the tube."}, {"response": 6, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (21:47)", "body": "Moody Blues boxed set CD is playing (the poetry is a bit surreal), and I just finished making up an algebra exam to give to my students tomorrow. I have not had time to browse here since Saturday evening, and I must say that I have missed all of you. I skipped (church) choir rehearsal to relax this evening, so I suppose I feel a bit guilty. Saman, congrats on the muffins. It has been an absolute age since I used my kitchen stoves to do anything other than heat soup or cook frozen dinners! As soon as the semester is over, I will go to San Diego for a week over Christmas -- mom and one brother's family out there. I plan to take the S&S video to share w/ mom."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  4, 1996 (22:23)", "body": "Moody Blues. Santana was just on the music awards getting the Century Billboard award. Only George Harrison and three others have ever won this award. Still scanning pictures and working on some website proposals. I've got 4 computers hooked up to a switchbox here and I'm flipping from one to another. Bastrop Internet Services is working on building up the new server, I popped another 20mb of memory in it last night and Scott's putting NT 4.0 on it. I don't know if it's back on line yet. Their website is http://www.bastrop.net Tomorrow, Matt is going to build up a new primary server to replace http://access.spring.com which bit the dust. I got a 2mb hard drive to replace the 1 gigger that went down. The rains have past. It's quiet out in Cedar Creek, like it always is. I wonder what Amy's doing tonight."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (04:41)", "body": "Amy slept for a change -- but awoke at 4 am"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (07:13)", "body": "Good morning Amy, it's 6 am here and you've already been up for two hours, are you ever bright eyed and bushy tailed today! I'm going in to Austin today to take care of lots of business and things that are piling up. I've got to get that contract going with Texaltel (see projects) and get that machine to Matt (to replace the server that crashed) and a bunch of friends are meeting at pub on 6th street tonight. We had some interesting comments in one of the NetMeeting topics yesterday (not the one that's linked to here) and you may want to check them out in the 'apps' conference. Did you know that if you hit the 'enter' key twice that you will get a menu here if you're in a shell? But only about half the menus work so far. I'm writing shell scripts to do a whole bunch of things. Is anyone here good at writing shell scripts?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (12:33)", "body": "Even though I won't be online for the next 8 hours. I left my microphone aimed at my radio. So you may be able to hear me talking to other folks if you connect to me on NetMeeting."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (12:34)", "body": "Here are some of the pictures I scanned: http://www.spring.com/~terry/albumjpg/ And me as a baby: http://www.spring.com/~terry/albumjpg/terry2.JPG"}, {"response": 12, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (20:49)", "body": "I have to start making Christmas cookies and wrapping presents. I would like to get most of this done while my \"the little angels\" are in school. I will be very busy during the morning hours. Every year I say I will not go crazy but every YEAR we do. Oh w ell, \"tis the seasons to be joLly, fa,la,la,la,la,la,la\" * *** ***** ******* ********* *********** *** ***"}, {"response": 13, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (20:58)", "body": "1 \"Merry Christmas\" 232 \"Happy New Year\" 34443 4555544 566666665 67777777776 7888888888887 101"}, {"response": 14, "author": "Donna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (20:59)", "body": "I guess half a tree is better then none. HO! HO!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "Anna", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (21:37)", "body": "HO!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (23:28)", "body": "I have to make it down to see the tree of lights in Zilker Park. See my comments in the food conference about my wonderful dinner tonight."}, {"response": 17, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Dec  5, 1996 (23:51)", "body": "I'm having a hard time finding any holiday spirit this year. I usually enjoy gift giving and all the events but Novemeber has worn me out. Someone remind me what's it like to have a life outside of work. Donna, could you pls send a little of your xmas spirit my way? I'm in grave need. Mich"}, {"response": 18, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (00:03)", "body": "Sure Mich, no, problem it will be a \"surprise\""}, {"response": 19, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (14:45)", "body": "D'Arcy or Pemberley shape cookies anyone ? Donna, you already got some gifts ? Got to get them before the usual 24-hour-prior-to-Xmas-day. And it is a major plus to have kids, they really put you in the spirit don't they. Almost no choice but to feel it. My trick for the past years, particularly when all I had was a job and friends at the other corner of the earth, was to give time to needy causes (filling baskets of food. Nothing like seeing a two/three year old receiving is only plush teddy. Even if my situation as quite change, I remained faithfull to this commitment and it makes me feel great. Sending you my warmest wishes of joy and happiness, mich."}, {"response": 20, "author": "cat", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (19:40)", "body": "Not a good day today. Two girls in my homeroom were making fun of my friend Tara because she is skinny and short. They called her a Balemic Monkey (I dan't know if thats spellled right). They spread nasty rumors about her for absolutly no reason. They threw her books in the garbage, STOLE a few of her belongings, and on top of all that they threw away her BIBLE!! I am sooooooo pissed off right now. We also lost our game by ONE piont. It was a good game. I am not going to get any sleep tonite becaus John has invited 4 friends to sleep over. They are all loud and abnoxious (forgive spelling)."}, {"response": 21, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Dec  6, 1996 (21:18)", "body": "Cat, hope you were able to give Tara some support and comfort. At a time like that one really needs one's friends. Insecure young people can be so hard on one another. (And some of them never do grow out of it and become Caroline Bingleys!)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (00:27)", "body": "They should have a class in grade school/high school to teach people how to to love each other"}, {"response": 23, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (00:38)", "body": "But Donna, I believe that this is what parents are for?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (10:34)", "body": "Cheryl sometimes that is not enough."}, {"response": 25, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:01)", "body": "People can just be so nasty to each other it disgusting! Tara was hysterical all day yesterday! I feel so bad as if I've done something awful. I feel so helpless! I want to comfort her but I can't. She is too upset. Things like this have been going on since fifth grade with her! I thought people in their last year of high school would at least be mature enough not to do that sort of thing. I hope she can forgive them. I hope I can forgive them. It is times like this to where the only way I can f rgive is when I look back and remember what Jesus did for me. Even though we laughed at Him, spat on Him, beat Him, and even killed the Messiah, the son of God, He asked His Father to forgive us all. He could have just jumped off that cross and destroye d all mankind with the snap of a finger but He didn't. He did not want to die but He loved us all so much. He wanted us to be with Him in paradise when we leave our earthly bodies. We do not deserve His love, but He gives it willingly. For those who a e offended by this message I am sorry for invading your beliefs."}, {"response": 26, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:01)", "body": "People can just be so nasty to each other it disgusting! Tara was hysterical all day yesterday! I feel so bad as if I've done something awful. I feel so helpless! I want to comfort her but I can't. She is too upset. Things like this have been going on since fifth grade with her! I thought people in their last year of high school would at least be mature enough not to do that sort of thing. I hope she can forgive them. I hope I can forgive them. It is times like this to where the only way I can f rgive is when I look back and remember what Jesus did for me. Even though we laughed at Him, spat on Him, beat Him, and even killed the Messiah, the son of God, He asked His Father to forgive us all. He could have just jumped off that cross and destroye d all mankind with the snap of a finger but He didn't. He did not want to die but He loved us all so much. He wanted us to be with Him in paradise when we leave our earthly bodies. We do not deserve His love, but He gives it willingly. For those who a e offended by this message I am sorry for invading your beliefs."}, {"response": 27, "author": "cat", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:02)", "body": "I thought I hit that button once. Sorry."}, {"response": 28, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (19:56)", "body": "I spent the night waiting in a hospital emergency room....the victim is home and doing well, but meanwhile, I now feel like I am the one who need a doctor's care..... in an unrelated incident, I hit someone's car (black ice...nothing I could do)....my son 's snake is loose in the basement (Indiana Jones and I have similar feelings about vipers;I am contemplating a move to the Hilton)....I have to turn out a shepherd costume for my son by Monday or the PTA gestapo will come after me......On Sunday, I must s epherd a bunch of cub scouts carolling at a nursing home; only threats of bodily harm will get them to behave like angels(Hope the elderly won't notice the 'Batman smells' version of Jingle Bells).....my house looks like a sewer....by way of holiday decor ating,I'm thinking of stringing lights on the pumpkins that have frozen to the front porch......and friends keep wondering why I spit at the TV every time an ad for the Martha Stewart Christmas special comes on. Sorry to ramble, but just wanted to let you know it has been a typical week in the House of Grace. Ho, Ho, Ho! P.S. Amy, if you really want to find that stud, I would advise AGAINST using all 16 yards of the muslin....try working with 2 or 3 yards to make some low-cut little number that will hammer home the right message....be sure to wear that WonderBra (or if y ou don't have one, duct tape works the same kind of Wonders) ;-)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (20:17)", "body": "] I hit someone's car (black ice...nothing I could do)... ___ Oh Grace. How awful for you. Do treat yourself to the Hilton. Why not? And popcorn and champaign and P&P tomorrow. Can I come over?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (20:46)", "body": "Oh dear, Grace! Who is the \"victim\" and of what, if the black ice was an unrelated incident? ANd what variety of snake is loose? Fear not - in general, many snakes make very good pets and many others are of an extremely shy and retiring character and u nlikely to do anything to anyone unless provoked. When in junior high I was one of a group of kids who \"volunteered\" at the museum, and among our duties were, every two weeks, if there were no live mice available with which to feed the snakes, to force-f ed them hamburger, which they would not eat on their own, preferring their food alive. So two of us took on each snake, one holding the mouth open and the other poking the hamburger inside - then we had to hold its mouth shut till it swallowed the bite. The experience really stripped the poor snakes of all dignity and ability to inspire fear. Joan, too"}, {"response": 31, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sat, Dec  7, 1996 (21:40)", "body": "Joan, the victim of last night's hospital escapade was my husband....he had gone to a Detroit Pistons game and was done in by a hot dog.....a piece lodged in his esophagus.......only with an ambulance, drugs, and a surgeon now behind us,and the victim fee ling much better, can I even dream of talking about the whole thing. (My husband was at the game with friends, one of whom is a thoracic surgeon and the other, a pediatrician. I'm left to wonder where they were during this whole thing!) My husband is a man of few words but because of this incident, those few are down to NONE, and he has to lecture on Monday. My son assures me that the snake missing from his collection is a milk snake...but I think this is a conspiracy to paint images of some benign creature hiding down there rather than a horrible lurking monster. (I am the only person on the block with cans of carnivorous snake food and freeze-dried crickets in her refrigerator - Woe to the guest innocently looking for a midnight snack.) Be assured that we are all now doing well.....and the HIlton says they do offer special rates for extended stays. Grace"}, {"response": 32, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (00:40)", "body": "Re: 59:31 - what a nasty and scary experience. One would have thought that in the company he was in, he'd have been in good hands! My husband is a man of few words but because of this incident, those few are down to NONE, and he has to lecture on Monday.\" Hopefully the swelling will have gone down at least somewhat by then. And if not, tell him to borrow a PowerBook, feed it a SimpleText textfile and let MacInTalk read it for him. [grin] I am the only person on the block with cans of carnivorous snake food and freeze-dried crickets in her refrigerator For a year or two I had siamese fighting fish, and was the only one on my block with live brine shrimp tubifex worms in my refrigerator. Equally disgusting- especially the tubifex worms! Joan, too"}, {"response": 33, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Dec  8, 1996 (22:54)", "body": "You beat me to it with the muslin, Grace. I'm glad you and your husband are okay."}, {"response": 34, "author": "Grace", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (08:22)", "body": "About beating you to it with the muslin, Hilary.......I couldn't help myself; Amy gave us an opening that was 'sew' inviting. (By the way,I threw in the duct tape just to please you.) If I had been smart, I would have gotten Amy to whip up my shepherd costume with the extra yardage and send it by overnight mail. The family survived a difficult week....I was just beginning to feel optimistic about life again.....and then I went to that party last night at the home of a Martha Stewart clone...... which was enough to plunge this hapless homemaker into endless depres sion! So begins another week."}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (08:35)", "body": "I'm off to work this morning. I had a nice weekend. We had very pleasant weather here in Austin. I started topic 82 in hopes that some of you will email folks that are interested in the Spring. If you find someone to your liking in topic 82, please email them and let them know they are most welcome here on the Spring. This would be most appreciated. I finished tape one of P&P and am part way in to tape two. I'm savoring the experience of seeing these tapes!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (15:47)", "body": "Who is Martha Stewart? Should I know? Thanks for the virtual ducktape! I should really use some round here - three of our 11 ducklings have died, probably at the beak of our drake. What we will do when we go away is a problem. Saw Jackson Browne and Bonnie Raitt last night. JB was enjoyable, ultra smooth, BR was WONDERFUL, great voice, fantastic blues slide electric guitar, and one raunchy lady."}, {"response": 37, "author": "Grace", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (16:06)", "body": "Martha is the US doyenne of elegant entertaining. 'She' is an empire...does TV specials, has books by the dozen, her own magazine -Martha Stewart Living, and a catalog of upscale merchandise. People either adore her, or, as in my case, live to make fun o f her. Diane White, a columnist at the Boston Globe, has for years kept up an anti-Martha campaign. Martha parody books are a hot item for Christmas around here. Jackson Browne AND Bonnie Raitt? Wow."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Anna", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (16:23)", "body": "quote for the day \"Boring Women Have Immaculate Homes\" (from my fridge magnet)"}, {"response": 39, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (17:40)", "body": "Hil, my nearly dead nap page has a Jackson Brown song as its theme song: http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wno.html"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (17:42)", "body": "Donna, tell your story about meeting Hornsby in the music conference, and I will tell about Mellencamp? Did we not tell each other we met them while pregnant?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (18:44)", "body": "Amy, do you mean the music conference here at spring? I haven't got beyond here yet. 'Running on Empty' is a great song, BTW. Sorry it is applicable to your nap page, though. Or are you happy its run its course? Just musing that its 16 years since John Lennon died. I still get sad about it. 'And so this is Chrismas, and what have you done, Another year over, a new one just begun'.... And Joni's still ricochetting around in my head: Its coming on Christmas They're cutting down trees They're putting up reindeer And singing songs of joy and peace. I wish I had a river I could skate away on...."}, {"response": 42, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (19:46)", "body": "] Just musing that its 16 years since John Lennon died. ___ I happened to be in New York just after the murder and went to the Park for the vigil. I will never for get it."}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  9, 1996 (21:25)", "body": "I love those old Joni Mitchell songs!!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (00:09)", "body": "Hilary, I am so glad that Martha Stewart has not poisoned Australia yet. If she stages a coup and completely takes over here (she decorated the White House last year on her Christma she knows her way around), Grace, Anna and the rest of us may have to co me and hide out at your place. Jane"}, {"response": 45, "author": "Anna", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (00:37)", "body": "Jane - I am in Australia :)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (00:52)", "body": "... at a safe distance from Martha Stewart."}, {"response": 47, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (02:07)", "body": "I am no where near even the fringe of the nieghborhood of Christmas Cheer. I have baked no cookies, I have sent no cards, I have bought no presents, I have not decorated my house (I did decorate my piano studio for my students, but that's all.) I am up to my eyeballs in Christmas in everything I do but none of it has affected me. This is the busiest time for musicians, everyone wants special Christmas programs- I have 9 more events in addition to my regularly packed schedule in the next two weeks. I a so busy \"Making Christmas Bright\" for everyone else that I have none left for myself. An occupational hazard, I know, and in the past I've always been able to rise above it, but not this year. The only day I can even see a few open hours to shop is Dec . 23, and I get the heebie jeebies just thinking about entering a mall two days before Christmas! Santa, help me!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (10:23)", "body": "Anna, I realized after I posted my message that I was only guessing that you were within reach of Martha's clutches. That gives the rest of us another potential refulge! Cheryl, I am in a similar boat, not as busy so less of an excuse for failure to make cookies, decorate, shop. My husband is out of town this week so I am with our 2-year old--I tried to go shopping but had to chase her around, and ended up spending a few hours at the mall buying only stuff for her. But here's a shopping tip that I found out about on the Austen-L, and bought for my aunt. Blockbuster has, for $29.99, Persuasion and Sense and Sensibility packaged together. The problem is, it is probably better present for you than for anyone you know! Jane P.S. Music is such a great part of Christmas---at least you can enjoy your work!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (10:24)", "body": "It is funny how the weather changes here in Oulu, Finland. In the morning it is quite warm (about +2 degrees centigrade, which is warm this time of the year), and there's little water in the streets. In the evening, returning home, you have to walk through several inches (20 in worst cases) of snow, and the temperature is -15 degrees C. I have to get used to it. Usually it has been -20 and 20 inches of snow all the time. The worst point is that it is VERY slippery... Hope I'll live through Xmas, I'll visit my parents and eat well... And have a decent sauna, with my mother's healing spells. We belong to a family of witches, after all."}, {"response": 50, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (10:57)", "body": "Real witches, Mixu? Tell. Jane, just think. Unless you are going to have more kids, it gets easier every second with the little ones. Today you can't shop. In another few months you will be able to avert your eyes for a few more seconds at a time to attend to what you need. Amy"}, {"response": 51, "author": "Grace", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (11:27)", "body": "Re 59:32 Joan, just wanted to let you know that my husband was able to croak his way through Monday's lecture and everything went well. (I had dragged him over to read your solution, he got quite a kick out of it.... and said to tell you thanks!) Grace P.S. This madhouse I live in also boasts siamese fighting fish....but we don't spoil ours with the worms you mentioned."}, {"response": 52, "author": "Grace", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (11:36)", "body": "Re 59:38 Anna, what an inspirational fridge magnet...BORING WOMEN HAVE IMMACULATE HOMES......I'd love to put one on my fridge but I find the dirt layer keeps magnets from sticking......time to buy a new fridge, I guess!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (14:04)", "body": "Hil, Re: Running on Empty 59:32 (Joan I am getting to like this notation) Did the MIDI link work for you? Amy"}, {"response": 54, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (15:16)", "body": "Re: 59:51 - Grace - glad he enjoyed it. :-) If you don't have to \"do\" tubifex worms, you must have a reliable supply of live brine shrimp - mine were too picky to eat the feeeze-dried ones. Amy, re: 59:53 - using the numbers is better than nothing, but not nearly as good as an automatically created link! For example, \"Re: Running on Empty 59:32\" - \"32\" is not about MIDI - it's about tubifex worms. (It's too easy to copy the wrong numbers! - especially for those of us who are numerically challenged! I count myself as one of these, having scored in the 4th percentile in a math aptitude test.) I have been playing around in the redisplay box below and have discovered that to go back just to a referred-to response, typing in \"32-32\" will get just that one response (which is how I knew that it was tubifex worms). And that typing a negative number , say \"-4\", will show just the last 4 responses."}, {"response": 55, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (16:47)", "body": "] And that typing a negative number, say \"-4\", will show just the last 4 responses. ___ That might be handy."}, {"response": 56, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Tue, Dec 10, 1996 (18:19)", "body": "\"Blockbuster has, for $29.99, Persuasion and Sense and Sensibility packaged together\" Thank you! I just called my local Blockbuster and they have it - and my husband is going x-mas shopping tomorrow night. Guess what just made it to the top of my list?!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (07:48)", "body": "I'm busier than you can imagine, and will be till the weekend. Keep the home fires burning Amy!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (08:01)", "body": "Mixu, have you discovered 'austen' yet? You're in for a treat!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (19:11)", "body": "I lost my wallet! This must be the worst time of year to be without credit cards."}, {"response": 60, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (20:13)", "body": "Gosh, sorry to hear this Ann. Is there any chance of retrieving it? Where did you lose it?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Dec 11, 1996 (23:41)", "body": "Oh Dear - you have my deepest sympathy. This time last year I had mine stolen. Had to stop and change everything - including house and car locks, since there were spares for both car and house in the wallet, and had no ID. Then about 3 weeks later a ma il carrier found it in the bushes in a neighboring community - everything there but the cash."}, {"response": 62, "author": "mich", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (12:44)", "body": "Subject: \"software\" Last year, my friend upgraded his GirlFriend3.1 to GirlFriendPlus1.0 (marketing name: Fiancee1.0). Recently he upgraded Fiancee1.0 to Wife1.0 and it's a memory hogger, has taken all his space; and Wife1.0 must be running before he can do anything. Althoug h he didn't ask for them, Wife1.0 came with plug-ins such as MotherInLaw and BrotherInLaw. Some features I'd like to see in the upcoming GirlFriend4.0... - A \"Don't remind me again\" button - Minimize button - Shutdown feature - An installshield feature so that Girlfriend4.0 can be completely uninstalled if so desired (so you don't lose cache and other objects) I tried running Girlfriend 2.0 with Girlfriend 1.0 still installed, they tried using the same I/O port and conflicted. Then I tried to uninstall Girlfriend 1.0 but it didn't have an uninstall program. I tried to unstall it by hand, but it put files in m y system directory. Another thing that sucks -- in all versions of Girlfriend that I've used is that it is totally \"object orientated\" and only supports hardware with gold plated contacts. ***** BUG WARNING ******** Wife 1.0 has an undocumented bug. If you try to install Mistress 1.1 before uninstalling Wife 1.0, Wife 1.0 will delete MSMoney files before doing the uninstall itself. Then Mistress 1.1 will refuse to install, claiming insufficient resources. passing along funnies for the day. Mich"}, {"response": 63, "author": "drymartini", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (17:14)", "body": "Amy, #4 response. I got ahold of a stud finder once. It was recommended by Norm Abrams, I think. Well, I figured this device would soon have me in touch with one or more outstanding specimens of manhood. Unfortunately, the device was not a stud finder at all. It was a turkey caller. I guess the items got mixed up in the display; this happens at flea markets. As a turkey caller it was effective. Several real losers showed up and asked me for a date. A week later I donated the turkey caller to the Chamber of Commerce because they were holding their annual Sport-o-rama and there was to be a turkey calling contest. At the height of the contest, my ex flew in from Texas. So I know the turkey caller worked properly, when used by an expert. As for the bolt of unbleached muslin, you could make several sets of sheets. 108\" X 90\" for standard flat sheets, I think. That's after the hems. It's good to have plenty on hand if your stud finder works well. Keep us all posted, hear?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Thu, Dec 12, 1996 (17:57)", "body": "Amy, I could get through to click on \"Running on empty\" but then it just gave me coded screen messages, it didn't play anything."}, {"response": 65, "author": "trainmaster", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (09:06)", "body": "I'm new on this, but after reading this I don't feel so bad. Christmas is kind of a bummer this year. Both daughers left home this summer, and the house is empty. I have a new granddaughter in Germany that I haven't got to hold yet.So am not really in t he Christmas spirit yet. My best to all of you. As for Martha Stewart, I wish she was real. No one can be that creative all the the time. I think she is a defense department robot that went haywire. Have a happy holiday to all, and to all a good nig t!"}, {"response": 66, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (12:19)", "body": "That explains Martha Stewart! No wonder."}, {"response": 67, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (18:11)", "body": "I found a nice #7 sable brush half covered with mud under a pine tree during my walk. I think it is a present."}, {"response": 68, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 14, 1996 (21:20)", "body": "I called Scott Holman over at BIS and he got the dedicated ip to resolve. But that's another topic. I've been rambling around the house today, cleaning and organizing. I started today driving through the fog to a breakfast at IHOP. As they say around town, 'onward through the fog'. I feel like going out for a night time walk."}, {"response": 69, "author": "Kennebec", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (00:35)", "body": "Hmm. Been pretty noisy today. Attended #1 son's play off basketball game (we won), took same son Christmas shopping (he was miserable), went to my 91 year old grammies for a real baked bean supper (we go every Saturday night), came home around 10:00 to complete chaos. #1 Daughter crying because Dad had carted her away from 3 boys & 2 girls spell TROUBLE. (She is 14 and was horribly embarassed. One of the boys had been RUDE. Dad didn't like it. Parents call. Apologies. More howling. Daughter VERY MAD not at Rude Boy, no, Mad at Dad for intefering) This is the only quiet spot in the whole house (and it's already Sunday). By the way, I agreed with Dad and not Daughter and am trying to convince her that her 'friend' owes her a BIG apology. That the whole incident is really about respect and dignity. Being a parent is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life."}, {"response": 70, "author": "Mlydle", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (00:46)", "body": "Well, me and significant other were going out to eat when we decided to go by 15 year old stepson's fathers house (who is out of town) to check it out. Stepson was supposed to be spending the night at a friends house. Seems we had a idea that stepson mi ght be up to something. When we drove up to the house there were and wife unit walked in, about 50-75 adolescents scurried out of the house. The house was full of beer, liquer etc.. When it was time to go stepson had set it up where one of his friends icked him up and he left. We chased after him but to no avail. Needless to say, stepson is grounded till next year, which I do not know if that is more of a punishment for me/us or him."}, {"response": 71, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (02:20)", "body": "I am so glad I do not have kids!"}, {"response": 72, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (02:38)", "body": "And that's what I'll have the privileged to, in about 10 years. Preparing myself, I think...."}, {"response": 73, "author": "Cynthia7", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (08:07)", "body": "Hi, I'm new to Ramble. It's about dawn in S.F.Sunday morning the 15th. I hoping to get some leads on how to find out information about who actually makes those holiday ornaments in China, etc. or the toys. Having just watched the TV special last Sunday Mrs. Santa Claus, and the part about the kids making thetoys, I couldn't help wonder, as I went shopping yesterday. Me, I'm getting my elementary teaching credential with an emphasis in technology. If posssible, now that finals are just about over, I'd like to throw up a web page about this topic. The page would be dedicated to Iqbal Masih http://www.digitalrag.com/mirror/iqbal.html a 12 year old who was killed on Easter Sunday organizing against child labor My e-mail address is crapak@sfsu.edu. not the one that I had to register with Any leads would be appreciated. I'll try to check back on this conference but e-mailing me directly would also be appreciated since time is short and I want to have it up before next week shopping. I'll be doing research on who makes toys for leading toy makers, GUND, etc. and other importers who may or may not be using children to make the ornaments, toys. Happy Holidays Please feel free to forward this request to any appropriate list etc. Thanks for the help!"}, {"response": 74, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (10:15)", "body": "Sure, we'll be happy to let you set up your web page. Send your request to: mailto://terry@spring.com Be sure to let me know what username you would like."}, {"response": 75, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (11:02)", "body": "Terry and Amy - there are now so many threads - that it takes a long time to review just today's messages. Lots of IO time just to see that person \"A\" is LOL at person B's comment yesterday. I love those comments, but there is a lot of download time inv olved here. If we get a day or two behind, we drown. Is it possible to combined threads - maybe the older ones - on similar topics so we of limited time can cover the ground a little quicker. Maybe after a topic is a week old, it could be folded in with other similar topics. We have two addiction threads, two duckfaces, several minor character threads, lots of others that could be combined so that IO time could be reduced."}, {"response": 76, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (11:10)", "body": "The way to \"combine threads\" or topics as they're called, would be copy and paste a complete topic into a single response in another topic then \"scribble\" it. Or make it hidden unless you clicked on it. We'd have to ask Dave how to implement a scribble command or hide command or whatever you wanted to call it. It's not currently implemented. But this could be a solution. Is this what you mean?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (11:26)", "body": "Re; It seems that you have to be one step ahead of them. At least no one was injuried. I would definitly ground him{a year is pretty hard to enforce} and make him do chores around the house.My son said {who is 13} he should not be allowed to drive until{n o permit} he is 18 years old. I am very surprised at this punishment. He knows that most kids can't wait to drive just, like him."}, {"response": 78, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Dec 15, 1996 (21:14)", "body": "I just got caught up on reading my e-mail! 37 messages deleted from the trash bin! Whoohoo!! Free at last, free at last, thank God amighty, I'm free at last! (at least until tomorrow...)"}, {"response": 79, "author": "Saman", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (03:50)", "body": "I hate what Christmas does to my hard-earned savings (perhaps dislike is a better word). I went shopping today for the major presents which I have been planning to but for weeks and ended up spending twice as much as I intended - mainly on stuff for me! I just checked my email and I got a lovely reply from the moderator of the Crowded House list I subscribe to. In my eagerness to inform the listies of an upcoming interview I mailed them, and then when it bounced back I mailed it again (and perhaps even a third time). Stupid me - it only bounced from one list member so now people around the world think I'm a hopeless newbie (I really dislike that). But Marck (the list operator) was really sweet and has made me feel a whole lot better. I think I'll stic to lurking on that list, and compensate by posting excessively here, because it's such a supporting environment :)"}, {"response": 80, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (09:34)", "body": "Amy (and all the others who are interested) Yes, a sort of. You know, the meaning here in Finland is a little bit different. It actually means \"A family with strange powers\", or something like that. Anyway, in my family there HAS been a real witch (I think it was my great-great-grandfather), who could, for example, make the neighbour's cows to disappear. Then there are some healers (like my mother's uncle, and, to a limited extent, my mother) and my elder little brother sometimes sees the future in his dreams. My gift is the same that my grandmother (from my mother's side, because that's the family) had: I have an inborn empathy towards people and animals. Sometimes I can predict very accurately the actions of some people, even though I don't know them well. It usually works for friends only, though. A disturbing gift, I'd say. I even saw the destruction of my 1,5 year relationship, because my girlfriend fell in love with a good friend of mine. I was the one that knew it first (even before they did), but since I've sworn I won't try to interfere with my empathy, I did nothing. Maybe it wouldn't have helped. They are married now, and happy. I think. I should visit them at Christmas... Okay, that's enough for now about the Finnish witches. I think it was no wonder that in medieval times the Finns were feared wizards. There's still some of the powers left. I know of a couple of other witch families, too."}, {"response": 81, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (18:34)", "body": "I have a similar ability to your brother's. Sometimes, when I am about to fall asleep, I get a sort of dream, but with a difference--I know that they are predictive of the future. Before I ever went to college, or ever visited the campus, I saw a glimpse of one of the classrooms and the teacher giving a lecture; about two years later what I saw came true. It used to happen much more often when I was younger, but actually occurred t wice on the same day last week. As a physicist and a scientist this is a bit disturbing. I must conclude from personal experience that time is not linear, but folds upon itself in a way which allows information from one time to be viewed in another. I also keep in mind a line from Billy-Boy: There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. (By the way I'm 1/4 Finnish (my paternal grandmother))"}, {"response": 82, "author": "Mlydle", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (20:47)", "body": "In regard to the punishment for stepson, we agreed for him to be grounded till Christmas. You all are right, you must stay one step ahead of them. He being only 18 years younger than me helps as well. It only seems like yesterday that I was up to simil ar shaningans. In regards to the above, Well I have to think about whether time is not linear, but folds upon itself. Being of the logical sorts who did too much experimentation when younger, I tend to pulled between logic and experience."}, {"response": 83, "author": "maddog", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (16:52)", "body": "Terry, just checked out the apps conference looking for help on a problem I have been having with realaudio - yikes, that conference is huge! - anyhow I kept getting a server error message when I tried to get into the realaudio section - thought I should let you know and also to ask who/where else could I turn for help with realaudio questions - specifically I am looking for a way to obtain a new copy of the old raplayer 2.x plugin for netscape/win 3.x - it seems that now that realaudio has come out with .0, they don't offer it anymore (snobs)- and 3.0 merely taunts me with bandwidth error messages on my poor old 486/14,400 set up.... I tried clicking my red shoes together and saying \"there's no place like version 2.x\", but it didn't work......"}, {"response": 84, "author": "cat", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (20:15)", "body": "Hello Peoples! My computer has been used by my mother and younger brother for the past WEEK. It has been hard to be away for so long but I have comforted myself and have started to read Northangar Abbey. Who is ready for the Flu\\Cold season? The Octe t (my singing group) gave a concert this morning. Yours Truely got a solo in \"Emmanuel\" ....in our darkness, in our bondage, child of hope we long for thee, walk among us, dwell within us, be our light and set us free, Emmanuel, Emmanuel, our God is with us now Emmanuel, the daystar of our night is sleeping on the straw, be with us now Emmanuel.....Isn't that song BEAUTIFUL! I am also singing it on Christmas Eve. Is that cool or what?"}, {"response": 85, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 19, 1996 (21:51)", "body": "Maddog, check out http://www.realaudio.com and try our conference again. That server error happens every now and then but you'll probably be able to get in next time."}, {"response": 86, "author": "maddog", "date": "Fri, Dec 20, 1996 (15:03)", "body": "thanks - I all ready been to realaudio, of course they no longer offer 2.0 (must have partners in the modem business) - It's really a drag when a company will not support a product that is less than a year old, just because they have a newer release. It k ind of leaves people like me in the lurch if we can't go buy a new pentium to run their new product. (sounds like some other company I won't mention but whose initials are microsoft!) I will check your realaudio conference again to see if there is anyone that made a backup copy of version 2.0 they might share..."}, {"response": 87, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (12:05)", "body": "Ladies, just have to share the words of wisdom on my perpetual calendar yesterday; reading it made my day. \"There's nothing wrong in the world that a sensible woman couldn't settle in an afternoon\". Happy Holidays!"}, {"response": 88, "author": "drymartini", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (20:53)", "body": "Amy-- have you used all your muslin? I heard there is a KKK for persons of color: they call it the Black Muslins. Cat-- I hope your friend Tara is doing okay and you are feeling better about that ugly situation. Maybe the kids who stole Tara's Bible will peek inside and find something helpful. I find it very hard to pray for people who are mean to me, or to others. B ut when I am able to, it is liberating. Cheryl-- we have something in common. I teach computer stuff a lot these days, but I have not been able to give up teaching piano. But hey, keyboards is keyboards, hmmm? I like to think about how the piano was developed by Bart. Cristofori, whose huge tro uble was perfecting the escapement. But they said it couldn't be done-- you couldn't have a keyboard instrument that you could control, as to amplitude or loudness, by the way you struck the keys! Then many years later the whole thing was repeated from Mo g on, with electronic keyboards finally becoming polyphonic and TOUCH RESPONSIVE. Wow! I think Bach would have been nuts about electronic music stuff. Joyous holidays, all!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "maddog", "date": "Sat, Dec 21, 1996 (22:55)", "body": "Terry - within 24 hours of posting my plea about my realaudio problems in your apps conference, I have been in contact with a very fine dude named David Bowles who searched/found and mailed me a new copy of version 2.0! I bow long and low to him, you, and The Spring for making this possible - I never fail to be in awe of the power of the net and the kindness of the people I have met here. peace and joy"}, {"response": 90, "author": "cat", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (08:54)", "body": "I can't believe Christmas is only 3 days away!"}, {"response": 91, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Dec 22, 1996 (18:10)", "body": "I am so bored I changed the curtains in my kitchen. Just a few things to wrap and a couple of cookies to bake. Hope everyone has most of their shopping done because I know I hate fighting the crowds. that must be the reason why it is so quite around here . Merry Christmas."}, {"response": 92, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (01:32)", "body": "I know that some of my friends here have been concerned about me and my complete and utter lack of Christmas spirit. I have had a few glimpses of it this past week; last Thursday when I attended the Jr. High School Band Concert and watched 11 of my piano or handbell kids play their band instruments in public for the first time, and again at my students Christmas Piano Recital, all of them dressed up in their Sunday best and playing all the old favorites! This morning my church choir offered our Annual Christmas Cantata and I felt the closest to Christmas that I have been, singing the wonderful words about our Lord choosing to become one of us to save us. I even came home and did some decorating! Tomorro w I am spending the day baking, for who can be a Grinch when eating Grandma's famous Christmas cookies! I am very thankful this Christmas for all the new friends I have found here. God bless you all!"}, {"response": 93, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (03:58)", "body": "God Bless You Merry Gentlepeople at this festive time. I'm so pleased to have met all of the wonderful people who make up the growing band of Austenites. I am especially thankful to Amy and Terry for their time, patience and perseverance, and of course their server space."}, {"response": 94, "author": "lars", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (17:56)", "body": "Hi Terry. Hmm. Suspected we had similar ancestry. Pretty nice place! Soon on way to bar to see friends before all take off for xmas. Fill myself with liquid \"charm and intelligence.\" Then probably enter cyberspace - again. Merry holidays to all from Frisco! Lars"}, {"response": 95, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (23:08)", "body": "You're Norwegian Lars?"}, {"response": 96, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 23, 1996 (23:41)", "body": "Today, my sister and I trekked out into the blizzard we are experiencing here in Minneapolis and went to what locals refer to as the Mega-Mall, also known, more formally, as the Mall of America--the largest shopping mall in the United States (there is a larger one in Edminton Canada). I was pleasently suprised to find that the mall wasn't very crowded--on this Christmas-Eve Eve. Perhaps even hearty Minnesotans were afraid to wade through the snow and ice to go shopping (thank God for 4-WD!). But I believe it is more likely that they were all hanging their heads in shame after the trouncing the Vikings took yesterday at the hands of the Green Bay Packers 38-10 (GO PACK!!!). Your Eternal Cheesehead--Ann"}, {"response": 97, "author": "Mlydle", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (01:41)", "body": "Well, here in Austin its a balmy 60-70 degrees. Being of the male persuasion, I find myself compelled to wait till the last 2-3 days to shop, so I was one of the many hurried masses going madly from place to place (thank god for Valium and relaxation tap es) trying to find that perfect gift within my price range. Need a John Madden Super Nintendo ASAP, stepson can't have all clothes. And all the while trying what this years Christmas symbolizes to me. But more on that later, Wallmart is open 24 hours.. ."}, {"response": 98, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 24, 1996 (05:14)", "body": "So, Ann, you're one of those folks we see on tv with face painted green and a big block of cheese mounted atop their heads?"}, {"response": 99, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (02:17)", "body": "I got a cheesehead for Christmas!"}, {"response": 100, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (07:32)", "body": "Can we see a picture of you wearing a cheesehead on your web page?"}, {"response": 101, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (12:18)", "body": "I'll work on it! Thanks Terry for giving me a home page. It's up and running--and extremely boring at the moment (www.spring.com/~anneh/). It's basically all of my bookmarks. I'll work on making it more interesting. My sister has a scanner and said she will scan whatever I want, but she lives in California, about to embark on a three week trip to Italy, so it will be a while before any cheesehead pictures could possibly appear."}, {"response": 102, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (12:58)", "body": "I have a scanner too, if anyone needs to mail pictures to me for their webpage."}, {"response": 103, "author": "churchh", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (14:11)", "body": "Hey Ann, I'm majorly bummed out that you didn't include your very own graphic that I made just for you, on your webpage. I spent five minutes looking for the quote and a whole fifteen minutes slaving over a hot Photoshop to make the graphic, so I think i t's the least you could do..."}, {"response": 104, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (15:31)", "body": "The cheesehead shot?"}, {"response": 105, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (22:46)", "body": "Check out my HTML Tags Tutorial: www.spring.com/~anneh/tagsaaaa.html Any advice on changes or additions are very welcome. I do like my graphic Henry. I will put it up."}, {"response": 106, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Thu, Dec 26, 1996 (18:09)", "body": "Thanks Ann for so pleasantly reminding me of why I don't live in Minnesota anymore, and why visiting Minnesota is much more pleasant in the summertime. The Mall of America is awesome, and so close to the airport when I come for those summer visits. Happ y New (and hopefully warmer) Year!"}, {"response": 107, "author": "drymartini", "date": "Fri, Dec 27, 1996 (12:20)", "body": "Careful with those tranks, now. Say, have you seen this new product that contains tranks and aspertame? It's called EqualLibrium. Hope you made it back safely from the bar where you stocked up on charm, etc. I have been doing extensive research into the construction of bottles, there being a major container maker in my town. I have discovered that most bottlenecks are at the t op. Tried to explain this to my managing editor; he is not convinced. Does your research bear out my conclusions, Lars? Or do we need to continue gathering data, replicating our results? When we have enough data, will we be able to perform analyses and re ort our findings?"}, {"response": 108, "author": "Donna", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (14:25)", "body": "My girlfriend and I took my 3 kids and her eldest daughter out for Pizza.Of course they always bring the pitcher of soda to soon.By the time the pizza came it was all gone.I had some left in my cup and eldest daughter had some left in hers. When my kids a re thristy watch out for your drink. My six year old says \"Hey Gee\" your not drinking your soda\"\"How come\"? \"May I please have some\" she said \"Sure\". His reply was \"thanks\" \"and If you don't mind I'll take the straw too\".It was done in the politest manner for a six year old don't ya think.We all jumped on the poor kid Scotty! It was funny.Then they had to play the jukebox\"Grandma Got Ran Over by a Raindeer\" it was hilarous.They all started singing. This is why I don't go out very much. What a scene???"}, {"response": 109, "author": "TJ", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (15:03)", "body": "WOW, first time i came to this area, but then again i haven't been around in a while....had to read all 108 entries as new.....what an interesting bunch of comments, statements, conversations, questions & answers. Absolutely loved it, sure wish this wa s an open chat..... I would definitely like to talk to many of you regularly........ Terry have you thought about putting in a chat area.......??????????"}, {"response": 110, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (19:58)", "body": "We have a chat room. You can get to this from the link on the main Austen Conference page. It is the Pemberley Drawing Room: http://www.worldrch.com/cgibin/Chat/nph-chat.cgi"}, {"response": 111, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec 30, 1996 (22:21)", "body": "Good to see you coming around again TJ. One of these times I'm gonna make it for darts at the tavern down in Bastrop. Let me know when the next one is going to be ok? We can get our own chat room if folks want it. The kind Pemberly folks have offered us their software if we want it. It's not ichat, but it's not bad stuff."}, {"response": 112, "author": "TJ", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (11:31)", "body": "from the looks of the stuff on the ramble page, it might be a good idea to have our own chat area.......at least see if anyone else has an interest.......but right now I think I'll check out the Pemberly Drawing Room.........Paul, yea it is nice to be bac k......do you have anything to do the Bastrop Internet Services??????.......do you know Daryl Kouba??????......hope to see you on Thursday (darts)..........."}, {"response": 113, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (11:35)", "body": "I have two servers on the bastrop.net. I can't get a hold of the kid who does their web page. I'm looking for someone in the Bastrop area, a high school kid would be ok, who can work part time at the Spring installing networks, configuring servers, and doing data entry work. I have a plan to make the Spring a world class web site and I am starting to sense an organization forming. The folks in the Austen conference are really pitching in and helping out and starting to take part in some website projects. But I need some help locally now."}, {"response": 114, "author": "Linda409", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (14:56)", "body": "There are a group of us (about 10) who have formed a music group here at work to exercise our mutual love of music. Twice a month, we reserve a conference room, bring in our instruments and meet together during lunch hour. I play piano and keyboard (at work) and sing, all just a little and very ill, indeed. But, it is something else that affords me an extraordinary source of pleasure (like Jane Austen). We play and sing lots of different kinds of music because we have different tastes which include popular, country, standards, classical. We haven't had the nerve to attempt jazz, yet. One of the pieces that we do frequently is Handel's Largo from \"Xerxe s which is the piece that Mary sings in P&P2 (at the Netherfield Ball, I think). For the past couple of years, we have hosted a Christmas sing-along where we play and sing holiday music in the cafeteria and invite the entire building to join us. It has been well received. Today, I ran into Karen, who is a fellow music group member. As we were chatting, we discovered a mutual love of P&P and P&P2. I'm so excited!! I think that I can create yet another addict. Now, besides you wonderful internet friends, I will be able to talk about Jane Austen face to face with Karen at work and with my friend Barbra after working hours. 1997 is going to be great!!! Happy New Year to you all !!!"}, {"response": 115, "author": "jane", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (15:13)", "body": "Linda, That music group sounds really delightful. I recently found out that a woman who works where I do is a longtime committed lurker to this board. She didn't recognize me from my postings, but we found out by accident that we both like this place. And the significant other of a man I work with is a frequent visitor to Firthdom, and has a copy of The Making of P&P that she will lend me. Small world, indeed. Jane"}, {"response": 116, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (21:29)", "body": "Well, here it is New Year's Eve, and the state of the northern part of the state (CA) could be better. The Russian River is now 2 feet above flood stage and the people up there have been told to evacuate or prepare to be stranded. So much for the ir New Year's Eve plans... While the rain has not been excessive in my immediate neighborhood, 3 of our local reservoirs are full-up and spilling over their dams, and our entire TV cable system has \"broken\" somewhere and they don't yet know where or why. Before it broke we saw a few seconds of the New Year's fireworks in Sidney Harbour - and I think I spotted Ian waving at the camera. Happy New Year, all!"}, {"response": 117, "author": "Donna", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (21:38)", "body": "Rain has been excessive here {in PA.} to Joan. We had a flood in the Summer of 1972. Are you worried about flooding? The weather man said we only had more rain \"100\" years ago. Now that is very strange."}, {"response": 118, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (21:58)", "body": "I am not concerned for my own estate being flooded, but it is sad to see it happening to our neighbors to the north again - they got it badly in 1986 and again in 1995, and here they go again... Many vineyards are already under 3 to 4 feet of wate r..."}, {"response": 119, "author": "McBruce", "date": "Tue, Dec 31, 1996 (22:32)", "body": "Heading into 1997 in the Last Frontier, our weather isn't threatening just darn inconvenient. Forecast for tonight is 40-45 below, extended forecast thru sunday is 30-60 below. On the plus side, tomorrow we break the 4 hour mark of available daylight! Had the truck plugged in all afternoon so it would start tonight, now the question is how long I can stay out before it freezes up. A happy and peaceful 1997 to all!"}, {"response": 120, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (01:00)", "body": "This all makes Boston's 20 degrees F. and 1 inch of snow seem so anemic. I wish you all a more pleasant '97."}, {"response": 121, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (05:29)", "body": "On the subject of one in a hundred year rainfalls; about 5 years ago sydney had the third of 3 one in a hundred year rains in 4 years - ain't statistics wonderful. In the ritzy part of town a Jaguar was swept down the street and deposited on top of someo ne's Mercedes; truly impressive rain. Still, at least it was summer, so warm, if wet. I hope those in need dry out soon."}, {"response": 122, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (05:54)", "body": "It is warm (relatively speaking) though wet here - it is pouring as I type yet at almost 3 AM it is only 64 F outside. Pineapple express for sure!"}, {"response": 123, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan  1, 1997 (11:58)", "body": "Austin's sixth street partied down last night and I got a video of myself at the stroke of midnight on the Springs' main page . I started out at the KOOP party at Armageddon and ended up with the masses on Sixth, watching the big silver start get hoisted by a huge crane. Now, I'm sitting in Cedar Creek with my coffee and toast. Happy New Year everyone!"}, {"response": 124, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (00:53)", "body": "For all of you suffering through some absolutely awful winter weather, we in southern California are busy taking good care of all the truly nice weather for you and would be vastly happy to send it your way at any time convenient!"}, {"response": 125, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (17:20)", "body": "Mary, my visiting daughter would greatly appreciate it if you would send your truly nice weather to Seattle. She's heading back there tomorrow and would like to return to decent weather!;-)"}, {"response": 126, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (18:58)", "body": "and would be vastly happy to send it your way at any time convenient! Please do not stand on ceremony or await an invitation! Any time at all would be convenient! Stepping on my lawn sounds and feels like treading on saturated sponges. :-("}, {"response": 127, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Thu, Jan  2, 1997 (19:23)", "body": "Hi Terry, we still cannot access news.prismnet.com for quite some time after you switch from iamerica.net. It seems like prismnet did not open usenet access for our IP addresses. Hope you can check this matter and happy new year."}, {"response": 128, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (00:45)", "body": "I'll look into it Ted. Thanks."}, {"response": 129, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (01:03)", "body": "Terry, if prismnet granted us usenet access, we can use tin to access the usenet news, but you have to do (at shell prompt): rm /etc/nntpserver ; echo news.prismnet.com > /etc/nntpserver so all of us can access the news. Hope it helps."}, {"response": 130, "author": "lilah", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (21:11)", "body": "It's just after 9 pm here in South Florida, and I'm recovering from a day at work that can best be described as, \"OK, folks, the holidays are over.\" Yikes. I'm an editor, learning a new city and looking for a new circle of friends. I just found the Spring yesterday -- not to mention the Austen group. I suspect I've found some kindred spirits."}, {"response": 131, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (21:45)", "body": "Where did you come from Lilah? What kind of editor?"}, {"response": 132, "author": "lilah", "date": "Fri, Jan  3, 1997 (23:14)", "body": "Amy, I moved here from Hoboken, N J, where I lived for a number of years, working in Manhattan and New Jersey as a newspaper editor. I do the same thing here, for a group of small specialty papers."}, {"response": 133, "author": "geekman", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (21:00)", "body": "Terry, you didn't say that this topic was in multiple Conferences! I just thought I'd visit the Cultures Conference and 'lo what did I see but this topis! Tch tch!"}, {"response": 134, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (21:32)", "body": "]topic was in multiple Conferences! That's been apparent from the postings from \"strangers\" for some time. It's also in porch"}, {"response": 135, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (18:41)", "body": "When you do a listing of topics, it states that it's a \"linked topic\"."}, {"response": 136, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (21:29)", "body": "It also states \"linked item\" every time you read new stuff in it right at the top of the topic. On future \"linked topics\" I'll post a note that they are linked in the intro or in one of the responses to make this clear."}, {"response": 137, "author": "geekman", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (05:09)", "body": "Thanks Terry! Will be much appreciated. From within the Austen Conference this time."}, {"response": 138, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (23:22)", "body": "_______________________________________________________ \"Why did the chicken cross the road?\" ----------------------------------------------------- Plato: For the greater good. Karl Marx: It was a historical inevitability. Thomas de Torquemada: Give me ten minutes with the chicken and I'll find out. Timothy Leary: Because that's the only kind of trip the Establishment would let it take. Douglas Adams: Forty-two. Nietzsche: Because if you gaze too long across the Road, the Road gazes also across you. Oliver North: National Security was at stake. Carl Jung: The confluence of events in the cultural gestalt necessitated that individual chickens cross roads at this historical juncture, and therefore synchronicitously brought such occurrences into being. Jean-Paul Sartre: In order to act in good faith and be true to itself, the chicken found it necessary to cross the road. Ludwig Wittgenstein: The possibility of \"crossing\" was encoded into the objects \"chicken\" and \"road,\" and circumstances came into being which caused the actualization of this potential occurrence. Albert Einstein: Whether the chicken crossed the road or the road crossed the chicken depends upon your frame of reference. Aristotle: To actualize its potential. Buddha: If you ask this question, you deny your own chicken-nature. Salvador Dali: The Fish. Darwin: It was the logical next step after coming down from the trees. Emily Dickinson: Because it could not stop for death. Epicurus: For fun. Ralph Waldo Emerson: It didn't cross the road; it transcended it. Johann Friedrich von Goethe: The eternal hen-principle made it do it. Ernest Hemingway: To die. In the rain. Werner Heisenberg: We are not sure which side of the road the chicken was on, but it was moving very fast. David Hume: Out of custom and habit. Saddam Hussein: This was an unprovoked act of rebellion and we were quite justified in dropping 50 tons of nerve gas on it. Jack Nicholson: 'cause it (censored) wanted to. That's the (censored) reason. Pyrrho the Skeptic: What road? Ronald Reagan: I forget. John Sununu: The Air Force was only too happy to provide the transportation, so quite understandably the chicken availed himself of the opportunity. The Sphinx: You tell me. Sappho: Due to the loveliness of the hen on the other side, more fair than all of Hellas' fine armies. Henry David Thoreau: To live deliberately ... and suck all the marrow out of life. Mark Twain: The news of its crossing has been greatly exaggerated. Stephen Jay Gould: It is possible that there is a sociobiological explanation for it, but we have been deluged in recent years with sociobiological stories despite the fact that we have little direct evidence about the genetics of behavior, and we do not know how to obtain it for the specific behaviors that figure most prominently in sociobiological speculation. Joseph Stalin: I don't care. Catch it. Crack its eggs to make my omlette. Captain James T. Kirk: To boldly go where no chicken has gone before. Machiavelli: So that its subjects will view it with admiration, as a chicken which has the daring and courage to boldly cross the road, but also with fear, for whom among them has the strength to contend with such a paragon of avian virtue? In such a manner is the princely chicken's dominion maintained. Hippocrates: Because of an excess of pleghm in its pancreas. Andersen Consultant: Deregulation of the chicken's side of the road was threatening its dominant market position. The chicken was faced with significant challenges to create and develop the competencies required for the newly competitive market. Andersen Consulting, in a partnering relationship with the client, helped the chicken by rethinking its physical distribution strategy and implementation processes. Using the Poultry Integration Model (PIM) Andersen helped the chicken use its skills, methodologies, knowledge capital and experiences to align the chicken's people, processes and technology in support of its overall strategy within a Program Management framework. Andersen Consulting convened a diverse cross-spectrum of road analysts and best chickens along with Andersen consultants with deep skills in the transportation industry to engage in a two-day itinerary of meetings in order to leverage their personal knowledge capital, both tacit and explicit, and to enable them to synergize with each other in order to achieve the implicit goals of delivering and successfully architecting and implementing an enterprise-wide value framework across the continuum of poultry cross-median processes. The meeting was held in a park like setting enabling and creating an impactful environment which was strategically based, industry-focused, and built upon a consistent, clear, and unified market message and aligned with the chicken's mission, vision, and core values. This was conducive towards the creation of a total business integration solution. Andersen Consulting helped the chicken change to become more successful. Johnny Cochr"}, {"response": 139, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:18)", "body": "ROFLOL!!!"}, {"response": 140, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (00:52)", "body": "Anna: \"ROFLOL!!!\" Me Too!!! :-)"}, {"response": 141, "author": "churchh", "date": "Fri, Jan 10, 1997 (06:21)", "body": "There's a slightly different collection linked to from near the end of the Jane Austen jokes file at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/austt10j.html ; this version includes a Pride and Prejudice version of the chicken joke..."}, {"response": 142, "author": "Mari", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (14:11)", "body": "Oh dear... Oh dear... I have to wipe my eyes now to resume my viewing."}, {"response": 143, "author": "Inko", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (14:21)", "body": "Another ROFLOL. With your permission, may I e-mail this to my children - they love these things and I usually get jokes from them."}, {"response": 144, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan  9, 1997 (14:27)", "body": "Oh, Inko. No permission required. I am on a list of one of those infamous net jokers. These things just get passed around. Usually the things she sends are stupid, but if I get an LOL from any of them as I did with this, I shall put them up."}, {"response": 145, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (17:50)", "body": "SAY CHEESE!!! WE ARE GOING TO THE SUPERBOWL!!!"}, {"response": 146, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "Ann - I am happy for you. and for all those barechested men in the stands the announcers kept talking about. what a way to call the rest of us sissies."}, {"response": 147, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (18:30)", "body": "There's joy in cheeshead land."}, {"response": 148, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (19:30)", "body": "]There's joy in cheeshead land. Not to mention Beantown!"}, {"response": 149, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (20:18)", "body": "Congratulations Ann (Cheesehead) and Myretta (Beantowner) - it's nice to see some different teams in the Superbowl. Now - are you two going to have a bet on the outcome????;-)"}, {"response": 150, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (20:49)", "body": "Alright, the beaner and the cheeshead toe to toe."}, {"response": 151, "author": "candace", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (21:09)", "body": "Yummmm, does this mean that at all the Super Bowl parties -- Bean dip and Cheese Doritos will be served?"}, {"response": 152, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (21:40)", "body": "Woo-hoo, Ann...maybe it will help you forget last year ? ;)"}, {"response": 153, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (21:43)", "body": "BTW, people...only a month until catchers and pitchers report to Spring Training. Can't wait. Go Braves."}, {"response": 154, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (21:54)", "body": "PLEASE, Mrs. Bennet, no sports, I BEG you! :-("}, {"response": 155, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (23:09)", "body": "That's why I put it in the ramble topic, Joan. It is supposed to be for anything one might want to say. As for me, though I will be cheering for Green Bay, I have absolutely no faith in the team and fully expect them to choke."}, {"response": 156, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (01:26)", "body": "Ann, have a little faith! ;) --- Joan, sports can be a very welcome diversion from computers, I must say...I hope to be able to make at least one Giants-Braves series at the 'Stick (okay, 3-Com!) this year...anybody else out there like baseball? ANYBODY???!!!"}, {"response": 157, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (02:11)", "body": "Kali: anybody else out there like baseball? ANYBODY???!!! Kali, I'm a big Detroit Tigers fan, growing up in Michigan it was a part of my childhood training just like ice skating and mosquito slapping! I spent many happy days at Tiger Stadium as a child...can't believe they're going to tear down that beautiful o ld stadium! :-("}, {"response": 158, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (02:49)", "body": "I grew up a Cardinals fan. St. Louis. Busch Stadium. Joe Garagiola, Harry Carey, Jack Buck and Tim McCarver used to broadcast the games on KMOX."}, {"response": 159, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (04:13)", "body": "Harry Caray...sigh...I've grown up on Skip Caray... Yay for you guys...baseball lives! And yes, Cheryl...stadiumwrecking is a crying shame...I had the displeasure of seeing Comiskey in varying degrees of demolition whilst the new Comiskey was constructed...almost like the life was being sucked out of the old stadium and being pumped into the new..."}, {"response": 160, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (04:41)", "body": "Congratulations Ann or should I say Slart ? So your team is in the final. Well, the beleaguered Australian One Day Cricket Team has missed out on the World Series Cricket Finals for the first time in 17 years! And on top of that is the New South Wales Shield Team losing very badly to Western Australia , in their Sheffield Shield match at the Sydney Cricket Ground. Now let me tell yo all that when NSW Cricket is strong, Australia is strong! So come on NSW and Come On Aussie ! Oh, Cheryl , now if you would really like to see some venerable old grounds, come and see our grand stands at our Cricket Grounds!"}, {"response": 161, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (04:44)", "body": "I drove by some folks playing cricket in Austin the other day. Will you please start a cricket topic in the sports conference Ian?"}, {"response": 162, "author": "geekman", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (04:51)", "body": "If you'd like me too, Terry! BTW, what are you doing up at this hour?!? Now if you were in Australia... :-)"}, {"response": 163, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (05:42)", "body": "I had to come in to work early today because we're facing an ice storm and the company I work for is on a crash project and need everyone they can to be here. I'm not normally up at this hour. Have you seen that austen is the feature on the Spring's main page today? If I were in Australia I'd probably be warmer now."}, {"response": 164, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (08:47)", "body": "Another connection, Cheryl. I grew up as a Tiger fan too. Stormin' Norman Cash, Al Kaline (saw him hit a grand slam once), my mother's heartthrob, Rocky Colavito (sp?) And Terry, you lived in St. Louis? Me from 76-80. End of the Lou Brock days, hot muggy afternoons in left field. Attended the 7th game of the 80 world series."}, {"response": 165, "author": "Mari", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (13:40)", "body": "Kali, gang; live in Milwaukee, and my hubby was one of the many enjoying themselves at 1 degree above zero yesterday (although I hope, I very much hope, NOT one of the barechested ones! :) ) Anyway, baseball is my game; started as a Braves fan (yes, here in Milwaukee when I was just a sprig), have become a Brewers fan. I can enjoy any baseball game; when we vacation outside of Duluth in the summer we go to Duluth Dukes games; fabulous fun, e specially if the San Diego chicken is visiting."}, {"response": 166, "author": "yairl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (15:19)", "body": "i've got to know how to make a good pizza any ideas????????"}, {"response": 167, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (15:51)", "body": "Must have a stone, Yair. That is the first thing -- unless you are doing deep disih. Amy Who Used to Live in Chicago"}, {"response": 168, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (16:27)", "body": "Amy: Another connection, Cheryl. I grew up as a Tiger fan too. Stormin' Norman Cash, Al Kaline (saw him hit a grand slam once), my mother's heartthrob, Rocky Colavito (sp?) Cool, Amy...I still look back on my 9th birthday as very special...I spent it with my Mom at Tiger Stadium watching a Twi-Night Double header against the hated Yankees...Tigers won both games, Al Kaline hit a homer in one, Mickey Lolich got a one-hitter i n the other and the Tigers went on to win the Series that year ('68,of course, not '84!) Can still sing the Tiger fight song I learned in 4th grade...\"Sock it to 'em Tigers, show 'em how to play...)"}, {"response": 169, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (18:29)", "body": "Not 'Teach me tiger', Cheryl????"}, {"response": 170, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (18:36)", "body": "We're all behind our baseball team. Go get em tigers. Right? Go get em, Detroit Tigers. Go get em Tigers!"}, {"response": 171, "author": "Ann", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (20:14)", "body": "I like the Saint Paul Saints--Northern League team that put the fun back into going to see baseball games. They are a total hoot. (Daryl Strawberry slept here)"}, {"response": 172, "author": "lilah", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (20:44)", "body": "Terry, Amy -- St. Louis is my home town. I remember seeing Stan Musial play at old Sportsman's Park (I was a tiny child, OK?) There ARE no announcers to compare with Jack Buck and Harry Caray describing the game on a hot August night on KMOX -- \"this is t he Cardinal baseball network.\""}, {"response": 173, "author": "Kali", "date": "Mon, Jan 13, 1997 (20:48)", "body": "Yay! More baseball fans! Wow, Mari...you're an even older Bravie than I am...I got hooked back in the eighties, when they still sucked...a great time to love baseball, b/c every game was personal. Fay Vincent was even threatening to review our status as an Atlanta team! I still have my Dale Murphy baseball card collection...over 300 cards, including his two rookie cards and one I got autographed. --- Good pizza? Zachary's stuffed is the best...they make their dough with beer and put the sauce on top and the toppings inside (go figure)...unfortunately, you can only get Zack's in Oakland and Berkeley...:("}, {"response": 174, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (00:14)", "body": "Talking, pizza : fav : thin crust with pesto, goat cheese, green and black olives, onions, prosciutto and walnuts. Other one is curried chicken pizza If you're in the vicinity of Montreal, go or order at Pizzedelic."}, {"response": 175, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (09:27)", "body": "Another Braves fan here! The Murph was great, also BRUUUUCE Benedict and Jeff Treadway and Lonnie Smith (so what if he fell for the deke--they should have been able to get him home). Go Braves!!!"}, {"response": 176, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (17:16)", "body": "LLohr (lilah)''There ARE no announcers to compare with Jack Buck and Harry Caray describing the game on a hot August night on KMOX -- \"this is the Cardinal baseball network.\"'' Lilah, I beg to differ; there is nothing like driving home from your summer vacation and enjoying Bob Uecker announcing the Sunday afternoon Brewer's game...''Get up..Get up.. Get outta here....''"}, {"response": 177, "author": "lilah", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (19:10)", "body": "Mari, I'd just about settle for any announcer describing any game...are football and basketball seasons over yet???"}, {"response": 178, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (23:06)", "body": "I grew up in Minnesota BEFORE the Twins and the Vikes, so am thrilled the 'Pack is Back'. Saw my first major league game in Tiger (then Briggs) Stadium because that's one of the things we always did when we visited our Detroit relatives. Great memories. .are they really going to tear that wonderful stadium down, can't believe it."}, {"response": 179, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (23:56)", "body": "Moved to collapse topics: Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (10:14) | Laura McCarthy ( LauraM ) Sorry, but I must do this. GO PATS!!!!!!! JAMBALYA YA JAMBALAYA YA.... Think of me doing a really stupid dance right now. 4 responses total."}, {"response": 1, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "Good. Laura, I am happy for you. Thanks for sharing, dear. Sincerely. (But can we have a little talk about willynilly topic creation/)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (17:12)", "body": "Laura; go to the Ramble topic; we are having quite the sports dicussion over there; of course you'll have to excuse us Wisconsinites if we don't join in your cheer;))"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (17:27)", "body": "Go Pack!!!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Becks", "date": "Tue, Jan 14, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Football in a JA bulletin board!!! Insupportable!!!!"}, {"response": 180, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (01:43)", "body": "Yep, Meggin...Lonnie Smith remains my all-time favorite left-fielder. And Bruce one of my favorite catchers...and Jeff Treadway my favorite second-baseman. BTW, I have one of Jeffy's broken bats...something only the biggest fan would want, considering h is relative obscurity! ;) Oh, and Jeff Blauser is also a god...because he's a Californian...;)"}, {"response": 181, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (01:45)", "body": "Oh, and Laura...I support your Patriot Victory Topic... :::) Solidarity among the sportsfans!"}, {"response": 182, "author": "McBruce", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (02:59)", "body": "Cheryl and Amy- how could you forget Denny Maclean? And not a bad piano player for a jock. What I remember best about Tiger stadium was the smell of the Wonder bread factory on the way in, cruising the Lodge with the windows down. And CKLW on the AM radio."}, {"response": 183, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (03:30)", "body": "Bruce: Cheryl and Amy- how could you forget Denny Maclean? Bruce! Another Michigander has come out of the closet! ;-) I have not forgot Dennt McClain, they could not have won the '68 Series without him! But it was Lolich who won the game I was describing. ;-) I hadn't thought of the Wonder Bread factory in ye ars! Thanks for the reminder! Fresh bread--what a wonderful smell!"}, {"response": 184, "author": "Anna", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (06:13)", "body": "Nice collapse Amy :-)"}, {"response": 185, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (07:12)", "body": "] forget Denny Maclean? __ Hey Bruce. Another link. Tigers and Bob Seger. Nice combo. Denny MaClean, the million dollar arm with the 10 cent attitude. re the Lodge: kid story about that another time. Where did you guys grow up? Me, in Mt. Pleasant, but I worked in Detroit for a couple of years right out of college (Central Michigan)"}, {"response": 186, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (07:41)", "body": "We have a Tiger Wood topic in sports by the way, the sports conference here."}, {"response": 187, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (07:46)", "body": "Did I say we had a sports topic here? I believe a Pats topic would be supportablee there, my dear."}, {"response": 188, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (07:49)", "body": "I meant of course, sports *conference*. Imagine, an entire conference devoted to sports and austenites are more than welcome to elucidate on any topic there."}, {"response": 189, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (12:39)", "body": "Amy: Where did you guys grow up? A Michigan Revival Meeting, eh? ;-) I grew up in Pontiac, a blue collar factory town, about 1/2 mile from the Fischer Body plant...walked many a picket line in my youth...;-)"}, {"response": 190, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (13:28)", "body": "Grew up in Albany, New York.............but left in 73'."}, {"response": 191, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (13:41)", "body": "And for the favorite pizza person........ i found that it you use the pilsbury pizza dough it is pretty good, brush it with olive oil and heat it up first with nothing on it for about 3 to 5 minutesR 350 DEGREES then add just all fresh ingrediants......fresh tomatoes, parley, basil, oregano, thyme and ground pepper (both red and black).....Crushed red pepper is ok if you cannot find whole to grind..... then chopped onions, green and red peppers, sliced mushrooms..... then add a fresh ground italian sausage or a good hard sliced peperoni cover with a mixture of cheeses 50% shredded mozzerella and the other 50% a mixture of romano, parmasian, provalone and white chedder return to oven until cheese is melted........"}, {"response": 192, "author": "yairl", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "thanks tj but after having second thoughts about it i think i'll keep on letting dominos do the hard work. does anyone know anything about bangkok thailand i'm going to go there and i can realy use some guiding ."}, {"response": 193, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (22:20)", "body": "Kali, send me a splinter sometime! :)"}, {"response": 194, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 15, 1997 (22:58)", "body": "You got it, Meggin! :)"}, {"response": 195, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (16:06)", "body": "Boy am I an outsider here! Never seen a game of baseball or whatever you're talking of with such eagerness.( Small chance in Sweden .) Have copied and saved those two delicious sounding pizza variations, though. And thanks Hilary for Tiger memento..."}, {"response": 196, "author": "Kali", "date": "Thu, Jan 16, 1997 (16:42)", "body": "Come visit, Ann2, and we'll go to a game..."}, {"response": 197, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (01:16)", "body": "It was thirty years ago that we all met. Five very silly fourteen year old girls. Together we practiced for womanhood. Clothes, make-up, and boys. Little did we know that what really prepared us for the future was the simple act of being together. We would talk deep into the night. Eating junk food and chocolate, sipping sodas. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our cheeks. We grew up together, the five of us. Transforming from girls to young women. We ran gaily then. Each of us, one by one meeting, falling in love, and marrying our soul-mates. Those years were filled with bridal showers, weddings, baby showers, and chil d-birth. After each milestone we would gather, talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and chocolate, sipping wine. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears. Always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our heeks. We went head-strong into our thirties. Each developing a new found independence and calmness which comes when you have finally begun to feel comfortable with yourself. Our careers were established, our children growing, and all five marriages still stro ng. We had all done our jobs well. It was no problem to leave our families for short periods of time. It was then that we began our \"Enchanted April\" weekends. Off to the mountains or the ocean. Talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and choc late, sipping wine. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears. Always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our cheeks. Our thirties began to come to a close. Each time that we would meet, we would sound like a Jane Austen novel -- \"How is your mother?\" \"How is your father?\" -- this would follow with tales of illnesses and hospitals. When or how our chain calls started, I don't really remember. It was a instinctive reaction designed so that the sufferer would not have to repeat their story more than once. One would call the other, each in turn. \"One of us is hurting\" we would tell the next until we made a complete cir le. Again, we would gather. Talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and chocolate, sipping wine. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears. Always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our cheeks. One by one our parents began to leave us. We held hands and our breath and tip-toed into our forties. We now gathered most often at our parent's funerals. Although our husbands tried to comfort us, it was the five of us that we would seek. Talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and cho colate, sipping wine. We spoke of our hopes, dreams, and fears. Always starting so seriously and always ending in laughter with tears running down our cheeks. Just this week another mile-stone has occurred. One of us became a widow. How can this be? Up until this moment, we all still remained with our one and only husbands. How lucky we were -- how well we choose -- how smug we were -- how fearful we are. Did we never think that this type of tragedy would happen? All along the chain call, each one said the same thing, \"I am so scared. We now must face the facts. There will be a time when one by one we will start loosing each other.\" Tomarrow we will bury her husband. After the sevices, when everyone else leaves, we will remain. Talking deep into the night. Eating junk food and chocolate, sipping wine. Speaking of our hopes, dreams, and fears. We will start out quite serious and somehow end laughing. Funny how there will still be tears enough to run down our cheeks. Thank you for letting me ramble."}, {"response": 198, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (03:03)", "body": "Oh, Candace - that is absolutely beautiful. Now where is that box of tissue! Please do share this with your five-some, too."}, {"response": 199, "author": "TJ", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (10:52)", "body": "Candace..........THANKS"}, {"response": 200, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (12:34)", "body": "Candace, it should really be the other way around....I thank you for letting me follow your rambling. I feel an ache in my throat and my eyes are a bit dim. This past autume my mother died and I miss her so. This life is ours to handle with care, and the way you and your friends do it together is just.... Oddly, I find it comforting that it is the same for us whoever or whereever... We must part from the one's we love. Better think of it now and then..."}, {"response": 201, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (13:22)", "body": "Candace -- what a beautiful \"ramble\" on the blessings of friends. Our thoughts are with you and your friends as you pass another milestone. (And my prayers are with your one friend who is going through this painful time.) Thank you for wanting to share this w/ us."}, {"response": 202, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (17:09)", "body": "Thank you Candace for rambling and sharing so beautifully. When you think of the sadness, though, also consider the blessings of having five such good friends. It's so rare that friends can stay together through all the stages of their lives."}, {"response": 203, "author": "lilah", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (19:34)", "body": "Candace, that was moving, eloquent and beautiful. How lucky you are to have such friends to see each other through the inevitabilities of life. I lost my beloved father in August; watched my mom struggle with the transition into widowhood. That's when I saw the rituals and the resulting strength that a group of women friends give to each other, and that's when I realized I truly believe in a sisterhood. Thanks for sharing with us."}, {"response": 204, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Fri, Jan 17, 1997 (23:28)", "body": "Candace, my father died last week. The first person I really talked to about it was my best friend--her father died 18 months ago. We've been best buddy's since jr. high--a long time ago. Yet she still knows me better than anyone else, despite the fact that we now live miles apart. How lucky you are to have a group of friends to help support each other in time of need. No one else could make me laugh last week, but my friend Kathy could. That is what best friends are for."}, {"response": 205, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (00:33)", "body": "Everyone, I hate to break the sisterly mood created by Candace's lovely ramble, but it was recently revealed that our own Saman just got into medical school! Congratulations..."}, {"response": 206, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (00:50)", "body": "Meggin, I am so sorry. Yours and Candace's story make me even more thankful my own mother is better all the time -- just learned two days ago that a heart oblation procedure done a few weeks ago had been successful even though at the time the doctors pron ounced it a failure. S'man, I am very very happy for you. I know how much you wanted this. You deserve it."}, {"response": 207, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (12:52)", "body": "\"...our own Saman just got into medical school! Congratulations... \" WOW This is so exciting - where will you do to school!!"}, {"response": 208, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (13:42)", "body": "Way to go Saman!! I'm so sorry. Margaret."}, {"response": 209, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (15:07)", "body": "My sympathies, Margaret, and all others who have recently lost family members or friends. It's a difficult time, I know, when good friends are invaluable. Congratulations, Saman! Does this mean we'll now have an \"ER\" topic here??"}, {"response": 210, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (17:51)", "body": "Candace, that is one of the most eloquent, touching ramblings I have experienced. I have a photo in my family album of a group of women I know who match this description very closely. I miss having a similar relationship in my own life and it is touching to hear about it in anothers life. That's the photo on the left of the women I spoke, that's Ann Evans the bride, ex-mayor of Davis California who married a delightful Englishman named David. They are still living in Davis, CA as far as a I know. These women all grew up together. I'm very glad our week long task to put out the new Webstalker has been completed and the product is now being shipped out to reviewers and beta testers. This is the first free moment I've had in well over a week. I'm hoping to get together with the Unix team and the folks who inhabit this community today and tomorrow before I go back to the intense development effort I'm involved in right now. I'm sitting in my office/master bedroom in Cedar Creek looking out over the woods and pastures, feeling good. I've got the Wide World of Sports Ice Skating on the tube, this is one of the most esthetic and relaxing sports to watch. (more about this in a future ice skating topic in the sports conference). Ekaterina Gordeeva is skating now, what a fine skater."}, {"response": 211, "author": "Anna", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (18:24)", "body": "Margaret, please accept my sympathy. ] it was recently revealed that our own Saman just got into medical school! That's great Saman, will you be starting this year? You must be really busy as well as please. I hope you'll still be able to join us occaisionally if y ou have to relocate. Amy, I'm really glad to hear your mother is improving."}, {"response": 212, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (18:53)", "body": "Happy birthday Kathleen Elder!"}, {"response": 213, "author": "lilah", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (20:24)", "body": "Margaret, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family."}, {"response": 214, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (20:45)", "body": "Margaret - I am very sorry you lost your father. Hope you and the rest of your family ware getting through this."}, {"response": 215, "author": "candace", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (22:17)", "body": "Thank you to everyone for the responses to my essay. In truth, what I really thank you for is this wonderful forum and all my wonderful cyber friends. This was truly the best therapy. To Margaret -- I am so sorry for your loss. I lost my own father five years ago. I know exactly what you feel. Peace be with you all."}, {"response": 216, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Sat, Jan 18, 1997 (22:26)", "body": "Thanks to all for the expressions of sympathy. You have touched my heart."}, {"response": 217, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (09:22)", "body": "Margaret, otan osaa, as they say here in Finland. It could roughly be translated as \"I take a piece of your sorrow and carry it with me\", and means that I am very, very sorry about your father. Keep on smiling, though. Despite many things the world still is a beautiful place."}, {"response": 218, "author": "Amy", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (10:21)", "body": "otan osaa __ That is lovely Mixu"}, {"response": 219, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:31)", "body": "Terry, figure skating ranks right along with P&P on my list of things I really enjoy. Saturday the 'Stars on Ice' were in town and a group of 8 of us went to dinner and the show. The evening flew by and it is difficult to pick out the best, but Ecaterina's numbers were very special. Torvil and Dean were an awesome presence in the show. Hope some of the other contributors to this board have the opportunity to see this wonderful production. And thanks to you Terry for providing this great home for all f us."}, {"response": 220, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:32)", "body": "Terry, figure skating ranks right along with P&P on my list of things I really enjoy. Saturday the 'Stars on Ice' were in town and a group of 8 of us went to dinner and the show. The evening flew by and it is difficult to pick out the best, but Ecaterina's numbers were very special. Torvil and Dean were an awesome presence in the show. Hope some of the other contributors to this board have the opportunity to see this wonderful production. And thanks to you Terry for providing this great home for all f us."}, {"response": 221, "author": "MaryC", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (20:32)", "body": "Oops, sorry for the extra post."}, {"response": 222, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (22:52)", "body": "I would kill (well almost) to see Torvil and Dean in person!"}, {"response": 223, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (00:47)", "body": "Candace, let me tell you how very deeply touched I was by your \"ramble\", frienship, family and the act of sharing is at the core of the soul. Margaret, accept these thoughts of peace. Loosing someone close, whether one who's life as been a long fulfilled road or, has we experienced last week, loosing a little one who had so much to experience, is never easy. Let us rejoyce in the happiness of their newfound home/salvation. Amy, all my wishes of health for your mother."}, {"response": 224, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (09:03)", "body": "Amy, I am glad you liked the expression. I think the reason why we have \"otan osaa\" is because if we said \"Olen pahoillani\" (meaning \"I am sorry\") it would mean that I did the thing I am sorry for. Anyway, I like \"otan osaa\" myself. It even sounds nice. I just happen to love Finnish, and feel myself very fortunate that I have it as a 1st language."}, {"response": 225, "author": "Meggin", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (13:25)", "body": "Mixu, I greatlly appreciate the kind sentiment expressed by \"otan osaa\". All of the words of sympathy expressed for me and my family have meant more to me than I could ever have believed possible. You all don't know me and you didn't know my father, yet so many of you have made such an effort to let me know that you care. I am overwhelmed by all of this. Johanne, you write of losing a little one. How terrible. My father was old and sick and in pain and I take a great deal of comfort in the thought that he is in a better place, having lived a full life with many joys. Johanne, my heart aches for you."}, {"response": 226, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (17:16)", "body": "Just to make things clear, I personnaly did not loose my child this past week, heaven forbid, I would'nt be able to be here at all, wondering if I would have any sanity left in such a short time. But my dear friend did loose her very soon expected baby and having lost one myself a couple of years ago, it stirred up memories. So close to the miracle of life but taken away a nano-second before. No choice but to confort ourselves with beliefs of a better place for them and the faith in a destiny much bigger than our mere comprehension may aloud. Thanks."}, {"response": 227, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (17:24)", "body": "Most people have no idea how much of a loss a miscarriage can be -- at any stage."}, {"response": 228, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (11:06)", "body": "Most people also do not realise that 25-33% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. With such I high number, it should be more widely known."}, {"response": 229, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (16:51)", "body": "AN ANNOUNCEMENT I have, this day, taken down all my Christmas decorations!!! *Applause* (Thank you, thank you very much! Now I just have to get it carried out to the garage!)"}, {"response": 230, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Jan 25, 1997 (17:23)", "body": "That is very good ,Cheryl . I have still the tree as it is so fresh and smells so good; I have not had the heart to throw it away. But I took away the last x-mas cloth the other day and have only kept one electric candlestick in the kitchen-window to brighten our dark and early mornings in January."}, {"response": 231, "author": "elder", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (00:56)", "body": "Cheryl & Ann2 -- with both of your messages blinking at the same speed, I began to feel that Christmas was still here! To any interested viewers of CF movies: I recently loaned my copy of \"Dutch Girls\" to Mari. If you are interested in viewing it, let me know via email (kelder@miworld.net for home or k_elder@fre.fsu.umd.edu for work). I can ask Mari to send it to you when she has finished watching it. As long as I get it back sometime, I would be happy to share."}, {"response": 232, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (03:36)", "body": "ANTI-SUPER BOWL PARTY Grace and I were talking at Pemberley today, bemoaning a full day of the Football Fan's High Holy Day, when we decided that we should hold our own party at Pemberley! The madness, I mean game begins at 6pm EST, but the Pregame crap, I mean festivities start hours and hours before that. So the official party shall begin at 4pm EST, earlier if you cannot stand anymore of John Madden! ;-) Y'all come!"}, {"response": 233, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "Who in your opinion was worse Dandy Don,Howard or John Madden?"}, {"response": 234, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (10:19)", "body": "Wow, Super Sunday is here. And we have cheeseheads and anti-Superbowl partyin'. Are you going to have your own anti-Superbowl half time show with entertainment?"}, {"response": 235, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (10:19)", "body": "If you are not watching but only hearing the noise, Madden's yelling is really grating. But! I don't have a football husband anymore. Yay!!!!!!!!"}, {"response": 236, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (10:20)", "body": "Hey, Terry, we posted at the same time. Are you a football fan? If you have time, would you look in deeper?"}, {"response": 237, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (10:21)", "body": "Madden's comments on the web are naive and comical. \"How do you dot com something?\""}, {"response": 238, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "Amy throws a pass and Terry goes deep..."}, {"response": 239, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (10:32)", "body": "What?"}, {"response": 240, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (17:15)", "body": "Missed signal. Let's try that play again."}, {"response": 241, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (17:29)", "body": "Cheryl, I am here. Where are you?? Your thoughts (in chat yesterday)about Darcy as a quarterback have sparked my interest in the game, football...that is. But remember...if you get to be the team masseuse, I get to do the locker room interviews, up close and oh so personal. One more thing.....about those whirlpool tubs for the athletes...are you sure they accommodate two comfortably???"}, {"response": 242, "author": "Grace", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (17:32)", "body": "Cheryl, I am here. Where are you?? Your thoughts (in chat yesterday)about Darcy as a quarterback have sparked my interest in the game, football...that is. But remember...if you get to be the team masseuse, I get to do the locker room interviews, up close and oh so personal. One more thing.....about those whirlpool tubs for the athletes...are you sure they accommodate two comfortably???"}, {"response": 243, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Jan 26, 1997 (19:00)", "body": "Grace: One more thing.....about those whirlpool tubs for the athletes...are you sure they accommodate two comfortably??? Some things are worth a little discomfort! ;-) (and I'm at Pemberley now...where are you, dearie?)"}, {"response": 244, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (02:20)", "body": "Sorry, I missed that party,Cheryl and Grace. But from what I hear it was not totally without sports, eyh eyh, nudge,wink?"}, {"response": 245, "author": "Grace", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (10:03)", "body": "Ann, Mostly we made sport of the Neanderthals sitting in front of the tube whooping and hollering over such a stupid game. You'll be pleased to know that after much discussion, we also did reach some consensus about those Lycra pants the gentlemen wear on the gridiron. Should have been there!"}, {"response": 246, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (01:37)", "body": "Congratulations, Kali! On receiving her first law school acceptance letter But we never had any doubt."}, {"response": 247, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:04)", "body": "Thank you, Amy dearest, for your encouragement and optimism. You're great! :)"}, {"response": 248, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (02:23)", "body": "Brava Kali"}, {"response": 249, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (03:05)", "body": "tHip Hip Hooray! (Which school was it?)"}, {"response": 250, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (03:06)", "body": "Hip Hip Hooray! (Which school was it?)"}, {"response": 251, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (03:06)", "body": "Hey! I did not post that twice - though it does bear repeating. ;-)"}, {"response": 252, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (03:20)", "body": "I have only one thing to say to you, my dearest niece... YAHOOOOOO!!!!"}, {"response": 253, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (03:48)", "body": "THanks guys! It was Georgetown, Joan...:)"}, {"response": 254, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (08:19)", "body": "But, of course, I'm not at all surprised. Congratulations daughter."}, {"response": 255, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "Was it not Mr Bingley who found it amazing that young ladies can have patience to be so very accomplished?! And in our midst are several very accomplished, who also posess a certain something in their air, their adress and expressions. They study law, go to medical school and I know not what! Good luck, Kali! (Just saw you in Best of chat!)And Saman too!"}, {"response": 256, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "Congrats, Kali -- and may you receive many more happy responses! I hope you have a large field of choices (although Georgetown is certainly not too shabby)."}, {"response": 257, "author": "Mari", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (14:15)", "body": "Kali, Saman; go to it, girls!"}, {"response": 258, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (14:41)", "body": "Isn't this great? We are all so proud, like a bunch of mother hens. It is sweet."}, {"response": 259, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (16:37)", "body": "CONGRATULATIONS Kali -- Georgetown is really great. Starting with the cream of the crop!! Congratulations also to Saman. What a bright bunch we have here - nice to know the next generation is in good hands!!;-)"}, {"response": 260, "author": "kendall", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (17:13)", "body": "Georgetown!! Great. congratulations, Kali"}, {"response": 261, "author": "alix", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (18:57)", "body": "Congrats, Kali! I'm a UGA person, myself, but Georgetown is an awsome school. Just one question, what is a Hoya, exactly? I've heard so many things from people who go to Harrison High School as to what it is, but those Harrison people usually have problems with that whole collective reasoning/agreement thing! Sorry to those that I've offended, but at least McEachern can agree on their mascot. One more question, has anyone noticed that allmost all Latin teachers are either nutty absent minded professor types, or grandmothers-from-hell? Just a thought."}, {"response": 262, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (19:59)", "body": "Latin teachers? Our Latin teacher in high school was a messy genius type. Here at Cal, Professor Knapp is very normal. He's married, with kids, and very nice. so, you're a Dawg (woof woof woof!), Laura? Oh...and a hoya is actually a retaining wall (selected by students long, long, ago...). It has nothing to do with the bulldog that the athletic department took on as a mascot. --- Thank you for your interest and encouragement, guys...you're great!!!"}, {"response": 263, "author": "Ann", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (20:24)", "body": "A hoya is a certain way of throwing a frisbee: Hold the frisbee with your first and second fingers on the inside with the second finger along the inside of the rim, place your thumb on the top of the frisbee, then hold the frisbee in a vertical position (perpendicular to the ground) over your shoulder, then in a motion similar to a baseball throw throw the frisbee with strength and with a flick of the wrist high into the air. The frisbee will then invert and float upside-down back to the earth--that is a oya!"}, {"response": 264, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (21:19)", "body": "A hoya is an ornamental plant that grows well in hanging baskets and has tiny star-shaped flowers."}, {"response": 265, "author": "Susan", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:55)", "body": "Kali, I haven't been on here long, but want to say Congrats! Georgetown is pretty cool . . . and you must be pretty smart! But then we already knew that. Enjoyed seeing your picture."}, {"response": 266, "author": "Kali", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "Thank you, Susan! Glad you liked the pic. Ann, Joan, I had no idea that a \"hoya\" was so many things! The Hoya Laura was refering to is the official Georgetown \"mascot\"...which is not a dog, but a retaining wall. I know not why that was chosen by early Georgetown students."}, {"response": 267, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (01:08)", "body": "WOW OF THE DAY! Henry's Jane Austen Info site was featured Monday on CNN Interactive: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9701/27/on.the.net/austen/ You know what I think is neat? That sometimes, once in a while, good content is discovered and recognized on its own merit. Nice job, Henry. You deserve the recognition."}, {"response": 268, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (04:29)", "body": "Woo-hoo, H..."}, {"response": 269, "author": "elder", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (08:09)", "body": "That CNN write up is \"mah-ve-lous\" !!! Good work HC -- who's your publicist? ; )"}, {"response": 270, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "Congratulations Kali.......i did not notice but were you one of the non fans for football.......(I guess i could read back a bit and find out).........but to many of us out here Georgetown is to Basketball what Notre Dame is to Football.....hope you like b-ball........not just the fact they are two great catholic colleges......... Also has anyone tried to make either of the pizza's yet...........been curious to find out if you liked it"}, {"response": 271, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (14:14)", "body": "Cool, HC! ;-)"}, {"response": 272, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (15:30)", "body": "THank you, TJ...I like football alright, i guess...basketball even less...but then again, I don't go to school for the athletic departments! ;)"}, {"response": 273, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (17:51)", "body": "Congratulations! HC. That's great publicity and a really nice write-up. IMHO You deserve all the accolades you can accumulate for your pages!"}, {"response": 274, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (17:52)", "body": "Congratulations! HC. That's great publicity and a really nice write-up. IMHO You deserve all the accolades you can accumulate for your pages!"}, {"response": 275, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Jan 29, 1997 (22:40)", "body": "Inko is obviously very excited! :)"}, {"response": 276, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (04:57)", "body": "Congratulations , Kali! (This is the 1st time I use blink... Take a deep breath and embrace yourself, because you deserve it (hug yourself for me, too!). Save the strength to be used later. I'll try to convince a tonttu (Finnish elf, a guardian spirit of places etc.) to follow you... If you think something invisible is living at your flat, just \"forget\" some food on the table - the tonttu loves it!"}, {"response": 277, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (09:53)", "body": "Hip Hip Hourra Henri If not for your webpages I probably would'nt be here, million thanks and **smoosh**"}, {"response": 278, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:07)", "body": "Johanne: million thanks and **smoosh** Johanne dear, is this the French equivelent of a *samooch*? ;-)"}, {"response": 279, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:11)", "body": "] Johanne: million thanks and **smoosh** Johanne dear, is this the French equivelent of a *samooch*? ;-) __ Wouldn't that be \"Mmmwwwa!\""}, {"response": 280, "author": "churchh", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (11:15)", "body": "If so, I think it should be spelled \"smouche\""}, {"response": 281, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (12:02)", "body": "Okay, then I guess my \"Mmmwwwa\" would have to be MMMMMMMMoi!"}, {"response": 282, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (12:48)", "body": "Mmouah, Mmouah, Mmouah Amy, I like it very much. Mmouah Henri, and when kissed dearest, something else than the spelling should occupy your thoughts ;) Kissing Fest"}, {"response": 283, "author": "Amy", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (12:51)", "body": "Well, I think kissing is a fine topic for this place. I'd not be ashamed to have either Ayelet's mom or mine read about it. We start moving the schwinging today."}, {"response": 284, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (14:06)", "body": "We're moving the Schwinging?"}, {"response": 285, "author": "Kali", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (03:08)", "body": "I'm laughing my a** off as I type!"}, {"response": 286, "author": "candace", "date": "Fri, Jan 31, 1997 (22:31)", "body": "Kali -- A big Congrats!! Oh the places you'll go!!!"}, {"response": 287, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (04:43)", "body": "Thank you, dear Candace and Mixu..."}, {"response": 288, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (11:22)", "body": "What a find :"}, {"response": 289, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (12:02)", "body": "Congratulations, Kali"}, {"response": 290, "author": "Ann2", "date": "Sat, Feb  1, 1997 (12:39)", "body": "Congratulations to HC on Great CNN presentation ! By the way you must have been doing lots of work on that site this autumn if I remember correctly. I visited and used bibliographies before I found old P&P2 board, in September. Were the colours there then?. Looks nice and inviting."}, {"response": 291, "author": "del", "date": "Mon, Feb  3, 1997 (18:15)", "body": "Relationship No ship, please. Not now. I haven't a captain nor a first mate \ufffd never mind a crew\ufffd It would take all my courage to try a relation inner tube. How about a relation floatie? Frozen margaritas in the pool some sultry summer night? Relation = Relative = Relativity = Energy = ME scared. Time flies when I'm fleeing fun. Marybeth Gradziel June 19, 1995 Reproduction We women need not be alone for long. We can grow friends. Find the right seed. Care for the sprout. and Enjoy the fruit of our labor. Marybeth Gradziel August 22, 1995 Dream Thought I understood it all one night. How men looking for women get mixed up, and flit from one to another \ufffd always looking for more. If only they knew\ufffd Inside every woman is an infinite number of other women just waiting for true love, trust and acceptance, to come out and love the man in an infinite number of womanly ways. Marybeth Gradziel August 24, 1995"}, {"response": 292, "author": "mich", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (17:26)", "body": "Very nice Doug,thanks for sharing"}, {"response": 293, "author": "Amy", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (20:51)", "body": "OJ verdict is in, not read. I have this terrible feeling something awful is going to happen."}, {"response": 294, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:12)", "body": "I wish the media would stop making such a big deal of this. They are now saying that they will delay the President's state of the union address to wait for the reading of the verdict. Where are our priorities, for heaven sake???"}, {"response": 295, "author": "elder", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:24)", "body": "I agree, Joan too. I was going to shut off the tv when I heard that there was this conflict about what to cover! (However, the snow/ice storm here cut off the cable before I could get to the remote. :-)) It is delightful to come to this civilized oasis, but I had intended to pay some attention to the President's address. Oh well, maybe I'll be a more informed citizen tomorrow."}, {"response": 296, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (21:25)", "body": "At least ABC is going ahead with the President's address as planned. I plan to compliment them excessively!"}, {"response": 297, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:26)", "body": "This is really scarry"}, {"response": 298, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:27)", "body": "This is really scarry but on the other hand there's a lot of parodies outthere"}, {"response": 299, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:39)", "body": "My TV is broken, so I'm listening over NPR -- they haven't broken into the speech to announce the OJ verdict yet ;-)"}, {"response": 300, "author": "churchh", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:41)", "body": "Last message outdated -- State of Union solid but unmemorable... OJ verdict: GUILTY!!"}, {"response": 301, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "The ultimate victory! ABC showed the President's entire speech - and then was still able to tune in to the trial just in time to get the verdict live . HA HA HA! Take that CBS and NBC!"}, {"response": 302, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (22:49)", "body": "I'm speechless....."}, {"response": 303, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "I stayed on ABC all evening, and never realized that CBS and NBC were not on the President's speech. My feelings about the evening - what else is new???"}, {"response": 304, "author": "Inko", "date": "Tue, Feb  4, 1997 (23:15)", "body": "I stayed on ABC all evening, and never realized that CBS and NBC were not on the President's speech. My feelings about the evening - what else is new??? Sorry, I'm feeling cynical!!;-)"}, {"response": 305, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (00:45)", "body": "I'm speechless....."}, {"response": 306, "author": "Ann", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (01:21)", "body": "Clinton has an excellent sense of timing. He finished exactly as the verdict came in. Now that's a great politician!"}, {"response": 307, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (04:56)", "body": "He's a slick one, he is...;)"}, {"response": 308, "author": "Adi", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (15:22)", "body": "I'm in such a terrible mood, I had to share it with you: yesterday 73 Israeli soldiers were killed when 2 helicopters collided. Seventy-three young men! the majority of them were just twenty years old. they were just born and now they are dead... I know at least 2 of them (there are still 20 more names not published), and the feeling is awful. If they were killed because of the war in Lebanon - I could at least understand it, but they died because of a stupid mistake, and it was a horrible death (there was ammunition on the helicopters, and it caused fire and explosions when it crashed on the ground). everyone here are so sad. almost everyone knew someone that died. I wish things like that will never happen again to anyone in any place."}, {"response": 309, "author": "Kali", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (15:28)", "body": "That's awful, Adi. Even if they had died in actual battle, would it have been worth it? I doubt it. Most wars today are such ego-vehicles that I have trouble justifying them. And I've always considered myself a hawk."}, {"response": 310, "author": "Inko", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (17:15)", "body": "Deepest sympathy, Adi. It is always bad whenever young people have to die, but in such a horrible crash it seems even worse. Also agree with Kali, death in battle or in a war would not have made it worth it--but then I'm a dove!! I hate all wars and can see no logical reasons for them."}, {"response": 311, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (17:18)", "body": "Adi, I'm terribly sorry. If the helicopters were as explosive as you say, it's likely that they at least died instantly. I hope that's some comfort."}, {"response": 312, "author": "Adi", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (17:42)", "body": "Kali, of course it's not worth it, those lives are so precious. those boys should not die, period. but sometimes you just can't help it - our men soldiers don't \"play\" in war, they are defending our northern border from terrorist attacks and from missiles. so it's understandable to die while you are defending your love ones and practically giving them life. I can assure you that in this case no ego is involved. what's killing me is that those soldiers were the top of the top of the youth in Israel: they were fighters in their way to their missions in Lebanon. they weren't just \"Jobnicks\" [=this is the name to describe the men soldiers who do office jobs like clerks]. they were already risking their life in their jobs protecting the rest of us, so they should have a better destiny than they had..."}, {"response": 313, "author": "Amy", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (19:22)", "body": "Adi, I can't even begin to imagine how you must feel. But I am so sorry."}, {"response": 314, "author": "kendall", "date": "Wed, Feb  5, 1997 (22:29)", "body": "Adi - I am so sorry. You are bringing the 'other side of the world' closer to all of us."}, {"response": 315, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (11:49)", "body": "Let me had my voice to Inko, Amy and all us in share this pain. We're thinking of you and all who is hurting."}, {"response": 316, "author": "lasalle", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (12:26)", "body": "Let me add my sorrow, Adi. Life can be so unfair--the Israeli people have suffered so long; the endless war and persecution. So many Israeli youth gone in past mideast wars. Now, even technology revolts against them. And Israel the only real democratic state in the mideast. The older I get, the more I think the universe was somehow wrongly put together."}, {"response": 317, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (12:34)", "body": "Too many have Carl, Israely and not, whether the're made knowns to us or kept in the back of the medias priorities. Too many innocent victims, especially children."}, {"response": 318, "author": "Adi", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (18:50)", "body": "Thank you all for your kind words. Carl, I never thought about it like that but I guess you're right: the universe was wrongly put together. God probably made a mistake when he placed Israel in the middle east. this was another horrible day. most of the funerals took place today. On the radio and T.V there were just quiet and sad songs, and between them - stories about the lives of all the dead soldiers, talks with their families and friends, talks with politicians and basically anything that could make you cry endlessly. I can't take it anymore. I wish this week will be over already."}, {"response": 319, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Thu, Feb  6, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "I just had to stop by before I head to bed to recommend a show I just saw. If \"Riverdance - The Show\" comes to your town, RUN to get tickets! I don't think I've ever had two hours in the theatre pass so fast! I'm not even sure how to explain it to you...its main focus is traditional Irish dance, but there's Russian, Spanish, and American dances as well. The energy level is just phenomenal. Also, in the program there was an ad for \"Tap Dogs\" which will be in town in a couple of weeks. Am I right in remembering that this show was highly recommended here?"}, {"response": 320, "author": "Anna", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (05:03)", "body": "] \"Tap Dogs\" ... was highly recommended here? mmmmnnnnhhhhh! all male, more 'modern' than Riverdance (at least the shows I saw) but definitely worth a look..."}, {"response": 321, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (10:00)", "body": "Kathleen, I have seen these ads for \"Riverdance\" but I think it is to purchase the video. What area are you in? I don't think they are coming here."}, {"response": 322, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (16:56)", "body": "MY CAR JUST GOT STOLEN!!!!!"}, {"response": 323, "author": "JohanneD", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (17:01)", "body": "So sorry Ann, hope nothing too valuable in it !"}, {"response": 324, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (17:09)", "body": "Oh, Ann, I'm sorry."}, {"response": 325, "author": "Inko", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (17:12)", "body": "That terrible. I'm so sorry Ann."}, {"response": 326, "author": "Amy", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (17:19)", "body": "That's awful, Ann. What a horrible annoyance x 50 plus disgust and inconvenience and I can't even think what else. Yuck."}, {"response": 327, "author": "elder", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (17:28)", "body": "Oh, Ann, how awful. And it makes you feel so angry, helpless, violated -- a truly rotten experience. Were you at work or home when it happened? I hope you are OK."}, {"response": 328, "author": "Mari", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (18:25)", "body": "Ann, so very aggravating! Ok in body, if not spirit, I hope."}, {"response": 329, "author": "Kaffeine", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (18:28)", "body": "Ann - That's terrible! Its one of those things that's hard to grasp - you know where you parked it and it takes a minute to register that it's really not there. Donna - I'm in the Detroit area. I don't know where its headed next, but hopefully it will end up near you soon. Anna - I think I'm going to check it out (Tap Dogs). :)"}, {"response": 330, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (20:03)", "body": "My car was parked in the lot in front of my apartment building and was probably stolen sometime last night. The cops were hopeful that they would be able to find it, but I doubt it. This is actually the second car that I've had stolen. The first one was stolen from my brother at gunpoint. The cops eventually recovered that one and the thief got 4 years in jail. Now I've lost another one. It is a pain in the neck to be carless. At least the weather won't be too bad for the next few days, so walking won't b too bad. Thanks for your messages."}, {"response": 331, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (20:39)", "body": "That's really bad news Ann. I hope you were covered and you get some new wheels soon. What kind of car was it?"}, {"response": 332, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (20:50)", "body": "1989 Jeep Cherokee Limited Edition with tinted windows and leather seats! I inherited it from my parents when they bought a Land Rover. It is a very popular car among thieves, but is getting on in years. I don't think there is any chance that I will be able to replace it with a comperable vehicle."}, {"response": 333, "author": "Donna", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (21:14)", "body": "Very sad indeed Ann. I do hope you get it back."}, {"response": 334, "author": "jwinsor", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (21:19)", "body": "Ann, what a bummer!"}, {"response": 335, "author": "Susan", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (23:20)", "body": "Ann, I'm somewhat new here -- where do you live? I'm so sorry to hear about your rig; Jeep Cherokees are cool. You have a good attitude about it, though. Hang in there and keep your chin up."}, {"response": 336, "author": "Ann", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (23:37)", "body": "I live in Minneapolis, not the best place to be carless in the middle of winter. I figure that there is nothing I can do about it. It's just going to be a pain in the butt to get it replaced!"}, {"response": 337, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (00:14)", "body": "I lived and worked in Mpls without a car for about a year. I worked as a city planner till I left there in a schoolbus that I recycled into an \"rv\". Bought it from the Owatonna School district. But that was then. In today's world, getting around in a good car is more of a necessity. I really liked the town, I met some very good people there."}, {"response": 338, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (01:07)", "body": "Will be sending good thoughts your way, Ann. Keep thinking positive. Hope this next week brings better things."}, {"response": 339, "author": "Kali", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (04:44)", "body": "Suck."}, {"response": 340, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (15:05)", "body": "Good news : THEY FOUND MY CAR!!! I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know how much damage was done. I know they broke a window and had to damage the ignition to start it. Thanks to everybody for your support, I'm sure it showed up so quickly because I had so many people thinking about it across the world. Thanks to all!"}, {"response": 341, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (15:06)", "body": "I didn't realise that yapp takes the word news and makes it into a link!!!"}, {"response": 342, "author": "elder", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (15:28)", "body": "Ann, that's terrific. I hope you can get your car fixed and functional really soon. Glad you didn't have to wait too long to find out about it, either."}, {"response": 343, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (16:41)", "body": "Ann, it's wonderful!!! You did get lots of instant support, and I'm sure it helped."}, {"response": 344, "author": "Becks", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (17:38)", "body": "Hope everything works out, Ann!"}, {"response": 345, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (17:45)", "body": "Gee, maybe we should start charging -- strangers, that is -- for this psychic service. Woman power. Be afraid. (Hil, did you start that \"be very afraid\" stuff?\") Very glad to hear it, Ann."}, {"response": 346, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (20:27)", "body": "Ann, So glad they found your car. Hope it'll be driveable soon!! There is a terrific review of P&P2 in today's NY Times by Christoper Lehmann-Haupt, a book reviewer. He compares P&P2 to the book and likes it very well indeed, better than any other Austen adaptation. Link is: http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/arts/tv-austen-review.html"}, {"response": 347, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (20:37)", "body": "That is an increadible review!! (By the way, you probably have to register at the NYTimes site before you can view the stories there. I would heartily recommend that you do. The NYTimes site is one of the best newspapers on the web and includes most, if not all, of the printed paper (including the crossword puzzle!!))"}, {"response": 348, "author": "Ann", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (21:06)", "body": "I have sent the NYTimes a E-letter in response to this article. I thought I would share it with all of you: Dear Sir or Madam, Your reporter, Christopher Lehmann-Haupt, is not the first to fall in love with the BBC/A&E production of Pride and Prejudice. This production in particular, and Jane Austen in general, has a large and loyal following on the internet. There are several sites which have been founded specifically for the purpose of discussing this production, and which have subsequently been broadened to include all of the works of Jane Austen. Other sites have been established solely to provide information and access to Au ten's works on the internet. Some of the URL's are as follows: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/janeinfo.html http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/austen/all/new (requires registration) http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wwwboard/ppbb.html It is suprising to me that she, of all authors, has such a strong following in cyberspace. I am continually amazed by the wide variety of Jane Austen information available on the internet, as well as the variety of people interested in her work. The virtual community which has been created around an interest in Jane Austen includes men and women, it includes people from the age of nine to well over sixty, and spans several continents and languages. It represents the best of what the internet can be by bringing together so many people in so many different walks of life, races, and cultures. We have come together and have indeed formed a community. We cry together when one of us suffers from a loss of a loved one, and we celebrate when one of us pa ses a milestone in life. We support eachother, even though few of us have ever met or even know what the others look like. We are grateful to Miss Austen for giving us the reason come together, and are grateful to the BBC/A&E production for introducing so many of us to her work. I am glad that your paper has recognised this wonderful production, which has brought so many people to enjoy Pride and Prejudice and Jane Austen, and which has brought so many of us together in cyberspace. Thank you, Ann Elizabeth Haker haker001@tc.umn.edu"}, {"response": 349, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (22:47)", "body": "As Lizzie would say \"Beautiful\"."}, {"response": 350, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:03)", "body": "Great news Ann. Whewwww! * slaps Ann a high five *"}, {"response": 351, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:27)", "body": "Ann, what are we going to talk about next? Do keep us posted regarding your now recovered vehicle."}, {"response": 352, "author": "churchh", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (23:53)", "body": "Did someone save the review -- it's expired from the NY Times site..."}, {"response": 353, "author": "Donna", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (00:00)", "body": "Yes, it did expire. I did a search and found an old review about JA which listed your site HC."}, {"response": 354, "author": "Amy", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (00:00)", "body": "February 8, 1997 CRITIC'S NOTEBOOK / By CHRISTOPHER LEHMANN-HAUPT 'Pride and Prejudice': A Great Movie of a Great Book Plenty of bad movies have been made of good books, and a fair number of good movies have come from bad books. But a great movie of a great book? Speaking from a book reviewer's vantage point, I nominate Jane Austen's \"Pride and Prejudice,\" a co-production of the BBC and A&E, which is being rebroadcast by A&E in two parts, on Saturday and Sunday. I had missed the production the first time around, but when a friend lent me the tapes, I was instantly and completely caught up by the Bennet family and the thwarted romances of the two eldest daughters, Jane and Elizabeth. I did not get free until I had watched the entire five-hour production three or four times. The Bennets' world seemed more real than mine. I found myself repeating the memorable lines. I caught myself humming the music. As with a really good book, I discovered more and more to enjoy as I grew familiar with the main action and could concentrate on the smallest of details: for example, the way you can still overhear Miss Caroline Bingley (played with grand imperiousness by Anna Chancellor) after the camera has shifted away from the reception line at the Netherfield ball. But best of all was the way the film spurred me to read the book again after 40 years and to re-experience as literature the wayward romances of Jane and Elizabeth Bennet with Charles Bingley and Fitzwilliam Darcy. Surprisingly, the book proved somewhat disappointing at first. As the friend who lent me the tapes rightly put it when I asked him how the book compared with the film, \"It makes you fear for literature.\" \"Oh! Shocking!\" as Miss Bingley would say. To admit that the literalness of film might surpass the stimulus to the imagination of Austen's language. \"Abominable!\" But this was my experience at first. And it is not simply to be explained by the inherent vividness of film as a medium or by the masterly performances of Jennifer Ehle as Elizabeth, Colin Firth as Darcy, David Bamber as Collins, Crispin Bohham-Carter as Charles Bingley, Adrian Lukis as Lt. George Wickham and Barbara Leigh-Hunt as Lady Catherine. Other films of Austen's novels I happen to have seen don't come near to offering the pleasures of this production. One need hardly consider the 1940 Hollywood movie directed by Robert Leonard, with its mangled script (by Aldous Huxley yet!) draining the story of all dramatic tension, its miscasting of a too-old Greer Garson as Elizabeth and its simpering performance by Laurence Olivier as Darcy. Both the \"Emma\" starring Gwyneth Paltrow and a forthcoming BBC/A&E co-production of the novel with Kate Beckinsale (to be shown on A&E on Feb. 16) are entertaining enough but seem thin compared with Austen on paper. While Emma Thompson's \"Sense and Sensibility\" has much to recommend it, it suffers considerably from the lack of the novel's ironic narrative voice, which mercifully distances the reader from the excesses of its two leading characters. And \"Persuasion,\" while the best of the feature-length adaptations of Austen, is so brilliantly cinematic that one almost misses Austen's narrative voice. Moreover, it is not nearly as faithful to the original as the film of \"Pride and Prejudice\" is, and one has to have read the novel to understand certain subplots that are barely touched upon in the movie. (I have not seen the 1985 BBC production of \"Pride and Prejudice,\" directed by Cyril Coke, or the movie \"Clueless.\") In \"Pride and Prejudice,\" an early work of Austen's (at least in its original form, completed in 1797 and titled \"First Impressions\"), little distance exists between the narrator and the viewpoint of the leading characters. In fact, the narrator's outlook is close to that of Elizabeth, who, except for the prejudice that prevents her from seeing the truth about the deceptively charming Wickham and the too-proud Darcy, is one of the most liberated women in all of literature, especially impressive considering the narrowness of the society she lives in. So \"Pride and Prejudice\" translates easily onto the screen. True, the initial hostility between Elizabeth and Darcy is more deeply and subtly developed in the book. And we understand more clearly the extent to which Mr. and Mrs. Bennet are alienated as husband and wife. But consider how the film improves on the book. Take, for instance, the introduction of Collins, the cousin of the Bennets who is to inherit their estate. In the book, Bennet reads aloud the letter to him from Collins detailing how he wishes to \"heal the breach\" that subsists \"between yourself and my late honored father\" and how he plans to visit the Bennets. The family then reacts to the letter, noting the pompousness of its style. A few paragraphs later, the text announces: \"Mr. Collins was punctual to his time, and was received with great politeness by the whole family.\" In the film, Bennet starts reading the letter, but Collins' voice"}, {"response": 355, "author": "Susan", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (00:41)", "body": "Amy, thanks for sharing ... but we already knew P&P2 was addicting and very difficult to improve upon. This just proves the point. (Although I don't necessarily agree with his opinions regarding other adaptations)."}, {"response": 356, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (00:45)", "body": "Sounds like Christopher needs to be sent our URL so he may continue to wallow with the rest of us! ;-)"}, {"response": 357, "author": "Inko", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (00:47)", "body": "Ann, thanks so much for e-mailing the N.Y. Times. I think it's great that they know their article is appreciated and that there is a bunch of us out in cyberspace who feel the same way their reviewer does! And thanks, Amy, for getting the article here. I wasn't sure how to do that. After all, that was my first link ever!! I'm learning, but ever so slowly!! BTW, I watched A&E tonight but I was disappointed--I really missed all the extra scenes I have on my tapes, and I hate being interrupted by commercials all the time! But it allowed me to get some work done and listen to it in the background!"}, {"response": 358, "author": "Cheryl", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (01:28)", "body": "Inko: BTW, I watched A&E tonight but I was disappointed--I really missed all the extra scenes I have on my tapes, and I hate being interrupted by commercials all the time! But it allowed me to get some work done and listen to it in the background! YES Inko! Me too! In fact I only watched the last 15 minutes...the proposal scene...ooh baby, lots of heat in that room! ;-)"}, {"response": 359, "author": "Anne3", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (18:54)", "body": "Susan: but we already knew P&P2 was addicting and very difficult to improve upon. This just proves the point. Yes, Susan, but what delighted me about the article was that a big cheese like Lehmann-Haupt, who as regular book critic for the New York Times holds a high position in literary circles, would admit in public to being as obsessed with a t.v. adaptation as an ordinary mortal! P&P2 conquers ALL!"}, {"response": 360, "author": "kendall", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (19:05)", "body": "Ann - I am making my way into this conversation late - like Mr. Woodhouse. I am glad they found your car - please let us know more as you get it back and back into working order. Thanks for the letter and the article."}, {"response": 361, "author": "Hilary", "date": "Sun, Feb  9, 1997 (21:13)", "body": "I have just been reading back, having not visited for a while. Adi, I wish I knew some way of comforting you. I hope as time moves on you will feel better. Amy (#345),not me, I think?????....I don't think I'm that scary!"}, {"response": 362, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Feb 10, 1997 (22:25)", "body": "I guess this topic got kicked out of Austen!"}, {"response": 363, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (07:36)", "body": "Ramblings, everyone! I have a terrible flu, am low on cash, and on a tight schedule. And yes, I almost forgot: I'm also turning 27 on Thursday! I'm beginning to feel old... On the other hand, it's Valentine on Friday, so: Happy Valentine! Thank you for letting this off my mind. I feel better already. I'll see you next week!"}, {"response": 364, "author": "TJ", "date": "Wed, Feb 12, 1997 (15:08)", "body": "beginning to feel old??????????? old is just a state of mind....take it from someone who is about to celebrate the 21st anniversary of his 21st birthday........."}, {"response": 365, "author": "fuzz", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (12:34)", "body": "I have just browsed down through the responses, all 364 of them and find them to be interesting. I thought this would be more of a political discussion than I have found, but am certainly glad for the camaradery."}, {"response": 366, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (22:50)", "body": "Welcome Don! Hope you keep checking back in with us."}, {"response": 367, "author": "fuzz", "date": "Mon, Feb 17, 1997 (18:42)", "body": "Thanks for the welcome. Where does peoples interest lie? I would be interested in people that have ideas that would lead to organizing the State Univ. of New York (SUNY) students into a voting block, or at least a political voice with a little muscle. I think it is a damn shame what the SUNY Board of Trustees are trying to do to the state system."}, {"response": 368, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (04:22)", "body": "Open a topic in politics, the conference."}, {"response": 369, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Tue, Apr  8, 1997 (13:53)", "body": "You guys are very interesting but I'm not sure how I fit in since I'm going to go out on a limb here and actually say I'm not a huge Austen fan--I like what I've seen but I guess it didn't hit me the way it hit you all (so what am I doing here? long story). But you welcome even lukewarm fans, eh? You seem like a nice bunch folks, you won't wallop me, right?"}, {"response": 370, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Apr  8, 1997 (20:37)", "body": "You're cool. Come on out and play!"}, {"response": 371, "author": "mtlady", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (16:16)", "body": "I wrote my intro. in another section. I heard today that there is a virus out there and it comes in your e mail and says from aol and states free aol on line and when you open it your entire system is wiped out including your antivirus programs. I figure it is for real because the alert was from washington and sent out to gov. fac. recieved in Atlanta at a gov. research fac. anyone heard about this?"}, {"response": 372, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 10, 1997 (21:36)", "body": "No, can you provide more details. Is it documented anywhere on the web or is there any anti-virus company that recognizes it. Have you contacted the folks at F-Prot or Norton to see if it's real. An email to them might clear things up."}, {"response": 373, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (15:23)", "body": "My,my, my... Terry, this has really grown since last I checked in. At the Denver Public Library today. Brandon is on a plane bound for Philly and I'm cold and lonely. The weather is bringing me down. The middle of April. 10 degrees. Six inches of melting snow. My flowers, the ones I planted three weeks ago, will never bloom. Sad. I'm checking out a Kabir poetry book, an Aaron Copland CD and several other random fiction stories -- sci-fi, romance, modern weird, you know... a little bit of everything to help me get through the week. Miss Austin, miss warm weather. Need a cup of caffeine and a chocolate macad mia cookie. Mountain biking and skating are on hold until the snow melts and the trails dry up. Thinking fondly of my former life..."}, {"response": 374, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (18:27)", "body": "Wow, Miss Stace' checkin' in... glad you found some access. Are those Interent terminals very busy? Isn't it cool that libraries have net access now. Nearly all the Austin libraries have net access. I get Denver stations on my satellite dish so I got a little glimpse at your weather. I won't mention what kind of day we're having in Austin or that all the plants all over are in multi-colored profusion. Do you go snow skiing? That would seem a natural for you with your athleticism. Have you been in any more ironman competitions (run, swim, bike)? Well, enough of this indoor activity for now, time to get outdoors. Keep on checkin' in, Stacey!"}, {"response": 375, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Apr 14, 1997 (10:23)", "body": "Stacey stacey check back in! I'm a desperately unhappy Dallasite longing to relocate to Denver/Boulder. Please give me some words of encouragement while I wait out this interminable job-hunt. I miss Austin, too--partly why I'm heading for D/B! It's the closest I've found to that great Austin ambience. Guess I'll trade hellishly hot summers for frosty winters!"}, {"response": 376, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (13:57)", "body": "well, I'm bummed...one of the 2 main potential employers I'm looking at in Denver now lists \"no jobs available\" on their home page (they used to have half a dozen) and the other one still has the 2 unsuitable-for-me jobs they've been listing since Feb. Time to do more searching and sending."}, {"response": 377, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (22:18)", "body": "Did you get in touch with Stacey yet?"}, {"response": 378, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 16, 1997 (22:42)", "body": "Have you thought about moving to Austin? Just a thought."}, {"response": 379, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (14:18)", "body": "Like I said in one of my many intros, it would be a dream come true to return to Austin, the town of my heart. Unfortunately, the reality is that I am just too old to live in the squalor afforded by the measly salaries paid for my line of work in Austin...so I visit and dream..."}, {"response": 380, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 17, 1997 (14:33)", "body": "Plus I'm just too dainty these days for the blistering hellfire of those Austin summers (they made a man of me in my 20s, but now...I can't breathe!)...like Colo winters will be any less hellish!"}, {"response": 381, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Apr 18, 1997 (00:37)", "body": "What work do you do again?"}, {"response": 382, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Apr 18, 1997 (09:07)", "body": "Molecular biology (got my MD, quit my residency, took up lab work). Sadly, the labs in Austin are easily staffed by peons fresh out of college willing to work for peanuts. There is Ambion, the lone industry. Perhaps I should give them a whirl, see if they'd be willing to pay me vast sums of money to enjoy the Austin ambience...."}, {"response": 383, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Apr 19, 1997 (01:25)", "body": "Talk to my friend Bob Nagy who works at UT Botany when he gets over his throat surgery (about a week). He's mailto://bob@spring.com He may be able to help steer you in the right direction. I'll mention him to you. His home page is at http://www.spring.com/~kreblon There's hope!"}, {"response": 384, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Apr 21, 1997 (14:07)", "body": "You are very kind, terry. I will definitely look there! Sadly, UT is the lowest-paying, but what the heck, I'll see what's up. My ramble for today: I changed the tire on my car ALL BY MYSELF!!! last Saturday. I'm so proud of myself. Plenty of lacrimal lubrication to get the lugs off (fortunately this all took place in the privacy of my own driveway)!"}, {"response": 385, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (00:26)", "body": "The folks I know there love it. Despite the low pay. They like the relaxed atmosphere and benefits."}, {"response": 386, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (09:55)", "body": "As indeed I did during the 3 1/2 years I toiled in the Micro dept--great people and a fine ambience (ESB is a cool bldg)--much better than the tense unsmiling environs of UTSWMC Dallas! I'll see what the pay scale is for my now-advanced status (cf my previous inexperienced level), eh. I just need enough to pay the vet bills and the car repairman!"}, {"response": 387, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (10:24)", "body": "And apropos of nothing, let me just rant about my pet peeve, trafficwise: so you're tooling along virtually alone on the road (plenty of oncoming traffic)(but no one near you in your direction). Mr Doofus is exiting a parking lot, wants to join you on the road. He sees you 10 blocks away and waits. And waits. And waits. When you are right upon him, mere inches from his front bumper, he EASES his tuna boat out directly in front of you. Having used up every last ounce of driving courage on this bold m neuver, he proceeds to drive 5 mph for a block or two, then slams on his brakes without warning, apparently (why use a turn signal? HE knows where he's going) wishing to turn left past all the oncoming traffic. So the pair of you spend eternity waiting for a brek in traffic sufficiently large to accomodate a tuna boat driven by a moron whose used up all his courage. Not a soul behind you; he could have done all of this after you passed, but NOOOOO, he HAD to pull in front of you. Thank you and good ni ht. seriously, any other traffic annoyances out there? Or do I just need to get the idiot magnet removed from my front bumper?"}, {"response": 388, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (10:26)", "body": "sorry about the typos--combination of spleen-venting and weird response frame (I can't see half of what I type!)"}, {"response": 389, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (10:28)", "body": "I'm over in Austin rambling, go back to main menu, see there's a new response in porch, come over here, and it's ME! This is too fun, chatting with myself (are the voices in my head bothering you?)."}, {"response": 390, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 23, 1997 (14:03)", "body": "And I return hours later,see another new response, and whaddaya know--ME AGAIN!"}, {"response": 391, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, Apr 24, 1997 (14:04)", "body": "AUBREY RULES THE WORLD!! I am the only responder! I am queen of everything! Ruler of mesopotamia! Goddess of The Spring!"}, {"response": 392, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 24, 1997 (17:09)", "body": "Well, you see, aubrey, the 'ramble' topic is actually replicated throughout several conferences and forms sort of a common thread through all these conferences. It started out in the austen conference and spread out from there (though it's no longer linked to austen after the major metamorphosis it went through. Anyone see the story on the WELL in the latest issue of Wired? Two folks I know pretty well, Cliff Figallo (fig@well.com) and John Coate (tex@well.com) are on the cover looking like guys out of the Xfiles. Also pictured is Stewart Brand. I was one of the original members of the WELL and much of the inspiration for the Spring comes from what Cliff and John did at the WELL, even the name was originally a play on the WELL. Anyway, check it out."}, {"response": 393, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Apr 25, 1997 (09:13)", "body": "I thought someone was typing in porch while I was typing in austin. Ddidn't realize the computer wouldn't be able to figure out it was me all the time. Will look for Wired and your pals. You're a funny man of the spring/well/geyser."}, {"response": 394, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Apr 30, 1997 (10:10)", "body": "Once again, aubrey is the queen of all she surveys! I rock the Spring! I am so large and in charge! I think I will chat with myself a while...."}, {"response": 395, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr 30, 1997 (18:10)", "body": "I've been offline here about 3 days, I'll be getting back on soon."}, {"response": 396, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, May  2, 1997 (10:26)", "body": "But I'm having sooo much fun! I NEVER get to be the one in charge! However, you are better at it than me...Fun in the lab: I was doing an experiment yesterday that required the use of some truly noxious organic chemicals; when I was pouring them out under the fume hood (like one of those kitchen range exhaust fans, only it's enclosed on 3 1/2 sides)(designed to suck away noxious vapors so they don't enter the lab) I couldn't quite reach the sink at the back of the hood, so without thinking I NATURALLY tuck my head under the hood to get better leverage...just a half a whiff of that stuff and I blacked out and hit the floor. Yikes-a-hootey! I'm still reeling from the shock a day later! Maybe I should consider a different profession? One that doesn't require frequent use of noxious and dangerous chemicals and gene-altering isotopes?"}, {"response": 397, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May  2, 1997 (14:21)", "body": "I wondered why you hadn't been posting for a couple of days! Wow! Take it easy there. Glad you back with the conscious folks. You're set up as a telnetter now! Let me know if you have any questions about how to use the telnet / yapp interface."}, {"response": 398, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (10:08)", "body": "Well, terry, I've tried every way I can but I still seem to have some sort of block vis a vis telnet. I can get to stroud (but only via typing it into netscape or clicking on the url you left me in tv conf--the url on the welcome page still doesn't work), but get lost therafter. There is a ws-ftp to click on at one point in the depths of Stroud, but my choice seems to be to download it, which (since this is NOT my own computer) I am a bit leery of. There is no Windows95 choice. On this computer (NOT i NetScape) there is a ws-ftp icon which I played with a little, but it couldn't find telnet://www.spring.com so I stopped (but now my password and name are on the ws-ftp page). Maybe I should try this from a personal personal computer (my brother is a computer jockey; I will enlist his help)."}, {"response": 399, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (10:10)", "body": "Where the hell did THAT come from???? All I did was type in the letters for that telnet thing and it went purple!!! Does that work for other sites? http://www.vabeach.com for example?"}, {"response": 400, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (10:31)", "body": "Help terry I'm scaring myself--every time I type in a url it lights up. Did I sniff too much pet ether last week or is this the glorious result of being a telnet gal? Yikes! Stop me before I hurt someone! So that vabeach url is from my e-pal who wants so desperately to join the Spring but cannot get on. I don't know what the site is, it was just the first thing I tried! AND IT WORKS! This is toooo spooooooky for me. How does the computer know where to go if I didn't tell it?"}, {"response": 401, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (10:58)", "body": "Terry I am serious, this is WAY too spooky: I sent an e-mail (via NetScape)to my bros requesting their assistance in this telnet thing, and when I typed in the spring telnet url thingie, IT LIT UP! WHY IS THIS SUDDENLY HAPPENING?? As you will note from my previous comments, I never used to be able to do lit-up urls--when I suggested websites to my e-pals, they never lit up before. How does the computer know I have a telnet account when I'm not logged on that way? IS BIG BROTHER WATCHING ME? I'm getti g paranoid!"}, {"response": 402, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (13:38)", "body": "I just left a lot of responses in ramble via telnet (with the kind assistance of my e-pal and my brother) and they didn't show up here. What's up?"}, {"response": 403, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (14:35)", "body": "And now my responses are gone from telnet, although that last response (left via the website) showed up on telnet. I am deeply confused. Plus, where are the messages left for me in telnet by my e-pal pungo? Terry, take my hand and leadeth me beside the spring waters, for I knoweth not what is happen."}, {"response": 404, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (14:38)", "body": "what happens to the stuff I write here? It vanished! Hmmmm, I went to the web spring and typed that above message in, and when I came back, this last telnet response was still here... I think I need someone else to chat with for this to work? \".\""}, {"response": 405, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (14:41)", "body": "Terry you'd better get here quick. My computer is now sassing back at me. I was roaming around telnet in ramble and it informed me \"a message entered before yours at 403\"--I don't know what it's talking about, but that's pretty spooky. Truly bizarre, tho--I asked it to take me to tv conf, but before it would it asked \"do you feel more enlightened now?\" WHO IS TALKING TO ME???? Are the voices in my head bothering anyone else?"}, {"response": 406, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (14:43)", "body": "response 404 is me in telnet. \".\" is me trying to leave! What happened to my first set of responses a few hours ago? Why did that STUPID response show up? Where did my name come into all of this?"}, {"response": 407, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, May  5, 1997 (23:17)", "body": "Keep after it aubrey, you'll catch on. This telnet stuff really does work!"}, {"response": 408, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Tue, May  6, 1997 (08:49)", "body": "It may work for you. It just scares me."}, {"response": 409, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May  6, 1997 (10:15)", "body": "It's not all that scary. What editor are you using? vi or pico?"}, {"response": 410, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (09:13)", "body": "ummmm...I am my own editor? Let me ask the computer god who runs the show around here. He's nice and knows everything about our set-up (he should, since he set it up!)."}, {"response": 411, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (09:23)", "body": "I couldn't find anywhere in tv conf to put this, so I'll just yammer away here: last night I got to watch a tv pilot. It was not so good but it was fun getting to watch something that may or may not be a show. The only person I recognized was Cynthia Geary from NExp (so maybe this should go there). It was a lame sitcom about a totally uninteresting couple of 20somethings getting married and all the trouble with involving their families in the wedding (his: NY Jew, hers: Southern crackers; hi-jinks ens e!). You think I could parlay this into a career? I can critique potential shows from the comfort of my own living room! Or not."}, {"response": 412, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (10:13)", "body": "You might want to hold on to your day job till you explore this a little more."}, {"response": 413, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (14:02)", "body": "It's so exciting to have you here during the day, terry! I like! So what, you think they won't pay me vast sums of money to sit around bitching about others' lack of creativity? Am I doomed to knocking myself out with organic solvents for the rest of my natural life? Breathe in, breathe out...."}, {"response": 414, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May  7, 1997 (19:33)", "body": "Are you and telnet getting along now?"}, {"response": 415, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, May  8, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "Well, not exactly. I've asked my brother the computer chimp to help me out (so don't be surprised if you read some really dull test messages here--I gave him my logon to work it out for me) so we'll see what he comes up with. My friend pungo has given up completely on The Spring (he e-mailed you for help and didn't hear back and since I can't find him on telnet he's going to find somewhere else for us to play--but I'll still be here!). I prefer the web-nased bbs rather than telnet. Maybe I'm a sucker or cool graphics (also this computer is pretty fast) or whatnot. What again are the advantages to telnet?"}, {"response": 416, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, May  8, 1997 (13:11)", "body": "That's \"web Based\" bbs!"}, {"response": 417, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, May  8, 1997 (13:12)", "body": "Oh yeah the tv pilot people never called me for my opinion--what have you been telling them about me, terry?"}, {"response": 418, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, May  9, 1997 (11:06)", "body": "The tv pilot people called last night; apparently the wrong show got beamed out so they didn't even interview me. My shiny new career vanishes like a candle in the wind...."}, {"response": 419, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May  9, 1997 (15:00)", "body": "like the old Elton John song."}, {"response": 420, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, May 14, 1997 (15:10)", "body": "how time does fly! I can't believe it's been so long since I've logged in. Boss-man really has me totin barges and liftin bales. Plus I've walked out on him a couple of times in the middle of the workin day when he starts smokin in the lab. Anyway, I got a phone interview, out of the blue, from Amgen, a company I applied to back in Feb--thought they'd forgotten all about me but apparently not. I am hopelessly unqualified for the job in question, plus it's in 1K Oaks CA where I'll never live, but who ares! I'll take the interview process as far as she'll go. I need the practice. Hey, also my bro in Denver has mentioned an editing job (for medical journals) so maybe I'll get something after all!"}, {"response": 421, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 14, 1997 (17:17)", "body": "I just got offered a webmaster job in Calif and a system network job for Compaq, but I got an even better job offer inAustin. So I'll stick around."}, {"response": 422, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Thu, May 15, 1997 (09:06)", "body": "But even if it weren't a better offer--you'd stay in Austin, right? Calif can't compare! Do you have to move to do a computer job? Can't they just link you up or something and let you stay in that fair city?"}, {"response": 423, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 15, 1997 (09:15)", "body": "I would probably stay. If it were Northern Calif I'd be more tempted. I had a good dinner last night with Doug Larue and he has some ideas for pumping up the Spring and Capcity. Doug is a very talented designer and editor of Capitol City Arts and Entertainment magazine. We're working on ways to build traffic and to attract more dedicated websites."}, {"response": 424, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, May 16, 1997 (14:36)", "body": "I can't wait! I'm all aglow! More people would be grrrreat. I've been spending time on another website (wbs.net) and while it's fun having \"live\" conversations, the people and topics are lame. More people here would be ideal. Let me know if I (useless as I am) can help--I'm still doing word-of-mouth promotions to everyone I meet who uses computers."}, {"response": 425, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, May 16, 1997 (18:59)", "body": "Anything you can do would help. I'm working 12 hours a day now so it's harder to promote this thing."}, {"response": 426, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "Terry you must relax! Austin is for slackers! Please tell me you will not keep up this pace. Breathe in, breathe out..."}, {"response": 427, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "I think I pumped it up a bit here on Sunday night. Take a look around and you'lll see some action, Aubrey."}, {"response": 428, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Sun, May 25, 1997 (10:20)", "body": "Where have I been??? I'm back now!"}, {"response": 429, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Sun, May 25, 1997 (10:28)", "body": "hahahaha and I'm STILL fooling myself with this ramble-in-many-conferences gag! every time I put in a response I go and check the other conference!! I have a memory span the size of a GNAT!!!"}, {"response": 430, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, May 25, 1997 (10:43)", "body": "I'm heading off to TJ Cellery's big party today, he's one of our posters in the sports conference and he's got bands, darts, and all kinds of activities going on out in Lake Bastrop today and tomorrow. It's already been going on for two days."}, {"response": 431, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Tue, May 27, 1997 (09:26)", "body": "Hope you had fun terry. I linked the spring from my \"home page\" (such as it is) on wbs.net--hope that's ok!"}, {"response": 432, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May 27, 1997 (10:31)", "body": "It's more than ok."}, {"response": 433, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, May 27, 1997 (22:38)", "body": "Hiya! Once again found myself within 3 yards of a computer and had to say hello! Miss you. Miss Austin. Should be back in late June early July. We'll do the Dog&Duck/veggie burger thing! Spring has finally reached Denver! Yea! Camping, biking and beer guzzling for Memorial Day. JuneFest this weekend -- more beer, camping and biking! Hope all is well with EVERYONE -- too many new people, I feel lost Paul! Smiles and hugs!"}, {"response": 434, "author": "ginger", "date": "Wed, May 28, 1997 (01:50)", "body": "We had a great party out in Bastrop at TJ Cellery's digs, he had live bands, horseshoes, good friends, great food and four frolicking days. He's been doing this for 25 years now (all around the country). Too bad about the Avs' Stacey Leigh!"}, {"response": 435, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May 28, 1997 (08:56)", "body": "Stacey, did you hear about Don moving out to Denver?"}, {"response": 436, "author": "msegal", "date": "Thu, May 29, 1997 (11:56)", "body": "Hi. Is there anyone interested in the Canadian federal election?"}, {"response": 437, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 29, 1997 (14:50)", "body": "I hadn't been giving it much thought. Fill us in ok?"}, {"response": 438, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Jun  2, 1997 (09:33)", "body": "There's a Canadienne in my wbs chat group who want the current guy booted out in favor of the contender who she says \"won't let the Frenchies walk all over us\"--I'll ask for more details, eh?"}, {"response": 439, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jun  2, 1997 (12:19)", "body": "How about those Bulls las night?"}, {"response": 440, "author": "ginger", "date": "Sun, Jun  8, 1997 (11:00)", "body": "They're having a quiet war about that, Aubrey?"}, {"response": 441, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Wed, Jun 18, 1997 (08:58)", "body": "sadly ginger that's all I know--and terry see my query in porch intros; I am confused (so what's new!) by these new choices we have! \"preserve as unread\"??? why???"}, {"response": 442, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jun 18, 1997 (12:42)", "body": "Why? Because Dave Thaler just upgraded our interface. We'll be putting out some upgrade notes soon. Aubrey, so good you're back!"}, {"response": 443, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 20, 1997 (09:06)", "body": "Thank you terry! glad to be here! so sad that boss-man keeps me away with WORK! So what is with thie COOKIE business????? why do yuo keep asking me to send them? I make a really great oatmeal chocolate chip (to die for!)--wouild a dozen satisfy you? Seriously terry this is getting ridiculous! I can hardly get on the spring for having to machete through a thicket of computer messages about COOKIES--help meeeeee!"}, {"response": 444, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun 20, 1997 (18:33)", "body": "Your broswer lets you turn off cookie notification. What browser are you using aub' ?"}, {"response": 445, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Mon, Jun 23, 1997 (09:10)", "body": "I am using netscape...everyone is telling me cookies are the worst thing in the world but you seem relatively calm about this...so I will take heart and attempt to figure out how to turn them off. if I can't can you help!"}, {"response": 446, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jun 23, 1997 (09:30)", "body": "Sure, be glad to help. What version of Netscape do you have?"}, {"response": 447, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (13:49)", "body": "yu got me there pal, I just click it on hee hee hee...let me have a look-see..."}, {"response": 448, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (13:54)", "body": "the icon says 3.01 but what actually comes up is 3.0...I deselected cookie under the preferences \"show me a warning before accepting a...\" and I sure hope that's ok--I don't know why someone would select that--terry? do I need to know when the computer has accepted a cookie?"}, {"response": 449, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (13:55)", "body": "Not really. It's mildly interesting. Not something to work up a frenzy over."}, {"response": 450, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (14:00)", "body": "hey!! now you actually being here IS soething to work up into a frenzy over!"}, {"response": 451, "author": "aubrey", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (14:01)", "body": "And I am frothing! I have never had anyone here when I am here! so I want to hear more about the electronic minds *peering about* are they here right now?"}, {"response": 452, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun 27, 1997 (14:45)", "body": "They are, join minds."}, {"response": 454, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (12:12)", "body": "Sure pop it in the wave."}, {"response": 455, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (19:06)", "body": "and what, praytell, are we rambling about?!?"}, {"response": 456, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (19:14)", "body": "jesus! I had to go through 2 friggin years worth o crap to get here! And what do I find but the same damn words I posted somewhere else. This is un nerving!"}, {"response": 457, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (19:18)", "body": "lol!"}, {"response": 459, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 16, 1998 (11:04)", "body": "Ramble is a mega linked topic. So if you ramble here, you ramble everywhere. Just so you know."}, {"response": 460, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 16, 1998 (13:16)", "body": "That's an intimidating thought. I'm afraid to ramble now."}, {"response": 462, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 16, 1998 (14:44)", "body": "Sorry, I seldom think I have anything worthwhile to say, much less to have it echoed throughout the spring."}, {"response": 464, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Jan 17, 1998 (16:52)", "body": "Ahh, but I'm not a deep thinker like you. An eloquent stream of consciousness always rates higher than inane chit-chat."}, {"response": 466, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Jan 18, 1998 (22:39)", "body": "Well, consider yourself eloquent."}, {"response": 467, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Jan 19, 1998 (18:11)", "body": "\"I was born a ramblin' Maaaaannnnnnnnnn. Trying to make a livin' an doin' the best I caaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnn.\""}, {"response": 468, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Jan 19, 1998 (18:59)", "body": "roflmao! (that's a pretty excellent dickie betts, especially from someone subject to recurring cat dreams...)"}, {"response": 469, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (19:21)", "body": "*grin* gotta be too much herb tea!"}, {"response": 470, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (19:41)", "body": "Hey, ramblin' girl, speaking of tea, just got a shipment of chai in today. A free sample from the Pacific Chai company. Who says I never got anything free off the net?"}, {"response": 471, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (19:45)", "body": "where? Good stuff? I'm a big Celestial Seasonings fan..."}, {"response": 472, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (19:46)", "body": "JUST POSTED THIS IN MOVIES.... NOW I HAVE TO READ IT AGAIN IN FITNESS!!!!!! AAAccccccccccccccccccck! Paul, what are you doing to me?!?!"}, {"response": 473, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (19:49)", "body": "It's a conspiracy Stace, remember when I told you a few days ago that when you post here you post everywhere (thought I was kidding, eh?). Anyway, I got the free Chai tea from Pacific Chai which I found by searching for the word \"chai tea\" on yahoo's site. http://www.PacificChai.com Good stuff! Spicy, weet, rich, and *instant* chai tea."}, {"response": 474, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Jan 20, 1998 (20:56)", "body": "Stacey, what are your favorite CS teas? I love the mandarin orange spice, and I use their green blend for iced tea."}, {"response": 475, "author": "nike", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (12:58)", "body": "Well as the thread in this group goes more into tea, all I can add to that is the fact that I have never drunken so much tea in my life like I do now living in Londo for half a year, you really drink it at nearly anytime in the day it's incredible... Just to continue rambling (I hope nobody minds) I am just not willing to spend hours over what I should be doing, preparing for my finals here in the South Bank University in London. It has been quite a semester here, and I must say to anybody who has the chanceto join such an exchangeprogramme, do it (like the Nike ad tell's you to) It's an expirience I don't want to have missed, and I already have spend a moth in an american Junior high school, a couple of years back (yeah yeah, those were the days) this thred was called Ramble? wasn't it ? ;-) I just could go on for hours, telling you about the freezing weather we had here after we had the warmest day in January two weeks ago, since the recordings began some hundred years ago, the weather is really unpredictable... Somehow I could do with some real proper sunshine, staying here I have acquired one of the most ugly teints I have ever had, the last time I had such a pale skin was after learning for my last exams in Germany for nearly a whole month and not seeing the outside much... Well I guess all you can do about that is either eat a wagonload of carrots (betacarotin) or lie under a artificial sun for some time, which I actually don't have, or I should better say shouldn't have ;-) Rambling on I could now go into the fact that I spent nearly 2 hours downloading the newest Mac OS -8 upgrade to 8.1 Apart from that I found a cool webpage explaining about Java and even offering a whole online store for free (all the scripts and everything that is needed to make such an to run an online store) so if everything else fails (my studies here as a building engeneer) I will open an online store selling ... well I don't know... ah! I got it I'll sell semelly socks ;-) Well what I would really like to do at the moment is continue writing my webpage, but I can't continue, because I couldn't setup my harddisk here, because my friend wanted back his casing for his harddisk ... well just in case you would like to have a little look around, or find out a bit about the thesis that I want to write about, check out my page at http://www.hardlink.com/~nike I would like some feedback... Well I guess I have rambled enough ;-) I should get back to my studies (yuck) See ya around enjoy the tea (I usually just have the normal PG Tips Black tea here) Bye Nike"}, {"response": 476, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (19:59)", "body": "Just in, the inside scoop on Clinton's woes from the Drudge report in politics."}, {"response": 477, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (21:23)", "body": "Read it in the politics conference. Either it's over for Clinton or Starr. One of them will bite the dust soon."}, {"response": 478, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 21, 1998 (21:28)", "body": "Nike, now thar's a ramblin' man! Gosh, it's great you're back with us. Buddy, ya know, got a gig with Microsoft up in big D. Funny, Buddy always despised Microsoft now he's getting those BillyBucks. I wish him well. It's a great break for him and he can help a lot of other visually handicapped folks break some barriers."}, {"response": 479, "author": "nike", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (11:21)", "body": "Yeah! don't get me rambin, when I actually have some work to do ;-) (at least not, when the work I do have to do is somethin I hate doin, like revising all the stuff I learned the last half of the yaer... Is Buddy still around here in the Spring? Well I guess it's often like that, when money is involved... I also would work for Microsoft, but in my heart I still would prefer to work with a Mac,. Anyway, a really great break for him, I must say. Why is it in big D? I thought they were up in big R? Well I hope to read lot's astuff in the various topics, only at the moment I don't have that much time, but I will broowse a bit. See ya around See ya around Nike"}, {"response": 480, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (11:43)", "body": "Hey, anyone want a free frisbee? http://cgi.pathfinder.com/cgi-bin/gdml2x/game/pathfinder/apc_survey2 will get you one if you answer their plastics survey."}, {"response": 481, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (11:44)", "body": "Big, or Dallas, is a tech support location. That's what he's doing, supporting handicapped users. And getting all the free food he can eat!"}, {"response": 482, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (13:15)", "body": "Don't forget to clue him in on the frisbee!"}, {"response": 483, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (17:45)", "body": "Autumn... teas (the faves) Tension Tamer Echinecea Ginseng Bengal \u001b[A\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[C\u001b[B\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D\u001b[D SpiceSleepyTime Emporer's Choice"}, {"response": 484, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (17:54)", "body": "I haven't heard of a couple of those...maybe they're marketed differently in other regions? Like out here we have Edy's ice cream, but on the West Coast it is Dreyer's. And in Europe, Arizona iced tea is called Colorado iced tea (sounds more exotic \"Old West\" or something, I guess!)"}, {"response": 485, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (18:05)", "body": "My super favorite in the Bengal Spice... clovey cinnamony yummy! Shame you don't have them. What are your favorites?"}, {"response": 486, "author": "russell", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (17:53)", "body": "New this month in Culture Wars magazine online: http://www.culturewars.com The Kingpins of Drug Legalization: Investigating Their Role in the Culture War by Michael J. Ard Who are the voices crying out for the de-criminalization of narcotics, and what are their real objectives? The answers may surprise you."}, {"response": 487, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (21:03)", "body": "My favorite is the mandarin orange spice, but if the Bengal is as good as it sounds, I'll have to look for it. Only I hope it is not too cinnamon-y, because I can't stand their apple cinnamon spice flavor. Or anything with mint."}, {"response": 488, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (21:18)", "body": "Thanks Russell, that culturewares site was mentioned in our web conference as a cool website not too long ago. On a less frenetic front, and back to teatalk, I picked up some more chai tea tonight and and hibiscus blend. My two current favorites."}, {"response": 489, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (21:23)", "body": "Ooh, hibiscus is yummy!"}, {"response": 490, "author": "doug", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (21:33)", "body": "Hey I just saw that culturewars site, gonna read it now. Oh, Terry, I didnt know you were a Tea Coinsure' You continue to surprise me!"}, {"response": 491, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (21:36)", "body": "Oh, he's a regular renaissance man....."}, {"response": 492, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (21:40)", "body": "Gosh, hey honest, I haven't been making under the table payments to Autumn. That hibiscus is great brewed with fresh grated ginger and sweetened with white grape juice."}, {"response": 493, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (21:42)", "body": "Wow--it would never occur to me to doctor tea with anything but honey or fructose. Old family recipe?"}, {"response": 494, "author": "doug", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (21:48)", "body": "I only came into this conference because I saw that was where the current action was. But dagnabbit if I wasn't exposed and affected by the culture oozing from the electrons of Terry's universe. We are headed to Mexico City tomarrow to go an a ancient indian adventure, talk about culture! I will be exposed to a great deal of over the next week or so. We are going to one of the valcanoes and as many pyramids as we can find, hopfully this will become celestinial. Speaking of culture, I hear there is a very cool (Spring Like) site called http://www.boat.org check it out!"}, {"response": 495, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (21:54)", "body": "Sounds like an incredible outing, Doug!"}, {"response": 496, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Jan 28, 1998 (19:31)", "body": "Hot pepper cheese craving... anyone want to join me?"}, {"response": 498, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 29, 1998 (10:07)", "body": "you can try... but i won't fit. maybe you sould put the cheese and the Ritz on me!"}, {"response": 501, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (04:06)", "body": "is that a sigh of relief or of dispair? (or were you just breathing heavy and got confused?)"}, {"response": 502, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (04:06)", "body": "drinking my tea, having finished my bagel. Fairly happy today Well, certainly not sad And I read a post from many moons ago that mentioned boyce I associate the name, obviously with the spring, but also with the summer months in Austin. And, all of a sudden, I became really homesick for Austin. My old apartment off of Riverside, runs around Town Lake, late night skates around town stopping in assorted coffee houses to play cards... The smell of the air with humidity. The hot sticky feel after exercising in humidity and sunshine. Riding through the Greenbelt, reading off Mt. Bonnell... To no one in particular... Do you ever feel happy and sad at the same time? Odd how this came up so suddenly."}, {"response": 503, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (04:06)", "body": "I guess that's me. Yeah, I feel happy and sad simultaneously. Well I got a contract on a house in Austin today. I now have 10 days to change my mind."}, {"response": 504, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (04:06)", "body": "(all the time)"}, {"response": 505, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (16:22)", "body": "Wow, a house--that's a big commitment, Terry. Sometimes I think ours is a full-time job. Stacey, that happy/sad feeling; sometimes. More commonly I feel a persistent undercurrent of restlessness laying in wait beneath the surface."}, {"response": 507, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (18:28)", "body": "congrats on the house Paul! and as far as the brief trip into emotional uncertainty... there's nothing like a class full of rowdy boys to bring you back to the here and now! *smile* and nothing like a beer (or four) to make the day a mere memory!"}, {"response": 508, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (18:39)", "body": "whew! (spamified) found ramble in another conference... that I'd never checked before two plus years of... rambling. (worn out)"}, {"response": 509, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 30, 1998 (20:53)", "body": "ramble rambles all over about 7 or 8 conferences. Ramble really rambles."}, {"response": 511, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Feb  4, 1998 (16:19)", "body": "afternoon..."}, {"response": 513, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb  5, 1998 (18:16)", "body": "fine. busy. frustrated with certain things but nothing catastrophic... you know how it is when you begin to vent... a trickle, a stream, a flood..."}, {"response": 515, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (13:55)", "body": "sure you wanna talk??? *wink*"}, {"response": 517, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (18:26)", "body": "what should I sit on?!?! *grin*"}, {"response": 519, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sun, Feb  8, 1998 (22:29)", "body": "okay. In an effort to expand our cultural horizons, let's each choose a different language to speak to each other in. (Kind of the way men and women relate anyway) You may speak whatever you like I choose body language!"}, {"response": 522, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Sat, Dec 19, 1998 (23:45)", "body": "does anyone have any idea why there are so many conservative/libertarian policy institutes around? a visit to www.cato.org and their list of links provides a good overview of the major ones, but why so many?"}, {"response": 523, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Dec 20, 1998 (03:03)", "body": "... because the only thing many conservatives like nearly as well as listening to their own voices is listening to the voices of those that agree with them (that's why there's so damn much noxious stuff congesting the radio waves these days... the entirely moronic phenomona of limbaugh's ditto-heads is illuminating... MANY conservatives are ditto-heads, both intellectually (as far as it goes) and emotionally, far more than will admit it... the way i see it, conservatism is intrinsically anti-intellectual... predicated as it is upon limits... upon reaction... regression... 'conservative think-tank' an oxymoron, because the purpose of that thought is to justify these fundamentally anti-intellectual impulses..."}, {"response": 524, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Jul  2, 2006 (05:13)", "body": "This country is getting more divided all the time, and I saw a 20/20 special the other night that proved it. If you put conservatives together they get more conservative. Same with liberals."}, {"response": 525, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Jul 16, 2006 (18:50)", "body": "this is a fiction, i believe what's happened to this country can best be ascribed to the end of the fairness doctrine, and the concentration of media into the hands of a few (we've been murdoched)"}, {"response": 526, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Mon, Jul 17, 2006 (10:34)", "body": "Murdoched as in myspaced? I agree that's a contributing factor. politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 5, "subject": "The Mayor's race", "response_count": 5, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Apr 20, 1997 (17:43)", "body": "I like Ted. He's the \"internet candidate\" who may be way ahead of his time. His plans for setting up neighborhood telecommuting centers make sense and he's behind efforts to enhance Austin's status as the most internet connected place on the planet."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, May  3, 1997 (10:44)", "body": "eply-To: Ted Kircher mailto:kircher@realtime.com Subject: Re: Good Luck on May 3rd To: George Cummings mailto:G-Cummings@msn.com cc: AAMA mailto:aama@eden.com EFF mailto:eff-austin@io.com AustinPlan mailto:ausplan@main1.main.org George, I really appreciate your note. I hope that the minimum outcome of this election is a realization that the high tech community can and should be involved in the issues - including taking 'votes' (Mike Byrnes has found some technology to do this electronically) that can be sent to the City Council and the various media - *before* they formally vote. The MM and software industry in general should be the bow wave of the economic growth of Austin, and for our sake as well as all citizens, we would be remiss by not using our influence to the fullest. Also, we should have something like the MAIN web-raisings to get all Neighborhood Associations (NA) on-line - with storage allocated by the Austin City Connection along with an Internet account to allow for updating their web pages. This would be a minimal cost to the city - or, better yet, each NA could cover the cost of around $100/year. This also means using KVET, ACAC, ... on a *continual* basis to raise the ambient level of understanding of all citizens that we are not talking about way out stuff if Austin is to continue to be near the front of the pack in high tech as we enter the 21th century. PS: If I get elected, there will be *no* closed doors, and I will *expect citizens to develop solutions* as well as 'vote' on the major issues. Btw, if no candidate gets a majority on May 3rd, then the two top vote getters will have another go at the end of May. The more votes I get, the stronger will be *our* position to expect the two leading candidates to listen to *our* views. Ted Candidate for Mayor of Austin http://ReadThis.com/Ted4Mayor On May 1st, George Cummings wrote: Ted, Sorry I've been so lame at helping with your campaign, (weak excuse of swamp of alligators with our MM projects). I have been talking up your issues with lots of friends and several discussions with Sammy (KVET). I see him or talk to him several times a week (cd extra client). I just wanted you to know I truly appreciate your effort, and I know it has made all the candidates and public much more aware of where Austin -- should and could be headed -- but time will tell which way we go. Your ideas of community education via net/neighbor hood centers is right on target. No matter what happens tomorrow, I would like aama to consider a special area added to the web site where every issue council votes on and especially those that effect our industry the voting record is posted by council member so that at every election from now on it will be easy for aama or any interested party to see exactly how or elected officials on every issue. Again good luck later gc"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, May  4, 1997 (02:17)", "body": "AUSTIN MAYOR 100% Precincts Reporting KIRK WATSON 48% RONNEY REYNOLDS 40% MICHAEL \"MAX\" NOFZIGER 10% THEODORE KIRCHER .3% JOHN JOHNSON .2% JENNIFER GALE .3% BLANE BECKER .6%"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, May  4, 1997 (02:27)", "body": "hhops that got messed up! Kirk and Ronny in a runoff. Then Max. Then Ted. Four folks tailed ted."}, {"response": 5, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Jul  2, 2006 (05:13)", "body": "Will Wynn won. Again. politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 6, "subject": "Lt. Governor Bob Bullock", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 7, "subject": "NATO and European politics", "response_count": 24, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Oct 24, 1997 (13:59)", "body": "(Kitchenmanager)- Out of curiosity, how do the \"American World Police Force\" and the idea of \"One World Government\" relate to one another?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "ledfords", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (00:06)", "body": "It seems that the discussion on NATO has worn down. Would anyone care to discuss another topic? The UN or EU perhaps, or if you'd rather we can move on to american politics: campaing finance reform, IRS reform. I'm up for just about anything...."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (01:01)", "body": ""}, {"response": 4, "author": "ledfords", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (18:47)", "body": ""}, {"response": 5, "author": "rubi", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (21:55)", "body": ""}, {"response": 6, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (23:50)", "body": "All in all though, NATO accomplished what it was intended to accomplish. And I don't think anyone would argue with the principle that a fully democratized Europe is in the best interests of the United States, as well as every NATO member nation. Must also consider the implications- mindful of their histories- of European nations fending for themselves, modern world or no..."}, {"response": 7, "author": "ledfords", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (01:02)", "body": "History is an important point. Look how well the European nations were doing at fending for themselves before the U.S. got involved in WWII. Besides who's to say that at some point in the future, maybe not so distant future, that there won't be any other threats to Europe. Just because the Soviet Union no longer exists does not mean that the Europe or even the world is now entirely safe. Yes, the risk of an attack has been reduced, but not eliminated. Who knows what will happen in China in the future That nation has a huge potential for the future and there is no clear mechanism for replacing the current leaders when the time comes. This could pose a huge threat to the Western world, depending upon how much China has developed and what portion of its potential has been realized."}, {"response": 8, "author": "rubi", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (15:09)", "body": "You make China out to be an evil empire w/ global goals. I think you are grasping at straws when you accuse a nation of a billion people that can hardly take care of itself of threatening the world. China's military is numerically superior to most others but it is hopelessly out of date and posses none of the means nessesary in order to project military power short of all-out Nuclear war which doesn't seem logical considering it's most favored nation trading status. Short of taking over 2 entire continent , China can't do a thing. Why stop with the Whole of Europe and Asia? Why not the entire world? I think that China will have enough trouble dealing with Hong Hong in the forseeable future. Please enlighten me to the scenario in which China would become a threat to the Western world.European nations fending for themselves holds as much threat in my estimation as Canada fending for itself. It seems foolhardy to back this institution (NATO) just because it has been around for so long. Nato should be seen for what it really is. It is a consortium of nations striving to fullfill U.S. policies. I don't think history should always be the guide to the future. If you get stuck looking behind you ne er see where you are going!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "ledfords", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (19:01)", "body": "I'm not saying that China is a threat or has any intention of conquering the world. I was merely trying to illustrate that it may be rather short sighted to assume that there is no need for a multilateral military force, which is what NATO is. I did not mean to imply that NATO's military force is comprable to that of a nation-state's because you are right it is not. But it is the only real multilateral force in existance today which is an important factor to consider."}, {"response": 10, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (01:56)", "body": "What's wrong with a consortium of nations striving to fulfill U.S. policies? Especially when those policies coincide with the interests of the nations involved? The United States leadership of Nato has hardly doomed the other western nations to pauper status- these nations have by and large thrived these fifty years, in large part due to to that leadership, and to the protection it afforded. The disintegration of the Warsaw Pact necessitates only a redefinition of NATO- does not the western political s here still face perils (from within and without)? Doesn't it make good sense to align ourselves to these nations- which share our basic political and cultural instincts, at least to a degree- and to lead them? And comparing the volatility of Europe with that of Canada is patently naive (to be kind)- while I agree that history should not alway dictate our behavior (the earth, like Jefferson said, does indeed belong to the living), the old saw is basically true: to disregard history is to doom one's self t it's repetiton. History is littered with the failures of those that didn't believe it so. And it is precisely the threat represented by nations like China (though there is no other nation quite like it) which makes NATO so essential. We don't know what the future of that nation portends, yet it's mammoth need, alone, suggests a possible threat in the future to the nations around it, at the very least. Certainly, the astute guess would have to include political unrest in China's near future, and in a nuclear age the ramifications suggested by that probability must be gravely weighed (most fav red nations status, notwithstanding)."}, {"response": 11, "author": "ergopublic", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (16:56)", "body": "Strange (or funny) to read this discussion. At \"beeing wired - beeing human\" I was told to have a look at spring. The NATO and European politics page is really astonishing for a citizen that is not member of the U.S. nor the NATO nor even the U.N. Still I'm european, sorry to say I'm swiss. But the swiss role (in history or politics) doesn't seem to be the topic here (btw michael rubi sounds quite familiar, i.e. swiss to me). One question pmnh: What is U.S. policies? A consortium of nations striving to fulfill\ufffd What the hell: To me it's all the same - business. One question to ledfords: What is democracy to the countries in eastern europe, and what has it to do with the NATO? Stable, fair, free, peaceful? What the hell: To me it's all the same \ufffd business! If you go back in history, you cannot stop at WWII. You have to go back further - 1914, 1848, 1789, 1776. What is that system, called capitalism or free market or even democracy based on? Is it not based on the will of some people doing their own thing, looking for their happiness\ufffd Smith, Jefferson, Locke, Hobbes wrote down things that were picked up by people who became rich in the industrial revolution without having any political power. To change that, they sticked together with the mob and created a system, we're still working with. It a little short-cutted, I know, but still: What the hell, to me it's all - business! looking forward to interesting discussions."}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (02:33)", "body": ""}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (13:35)", "body": ""}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (02:38)", "body": ""}, {"response": 15, "author": "ergopublic", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (06:21)", "body": "I'm not english enough to understand: hardball. To riette's question: What's a majority, what's Swiss (shall we create a swiss topic?) Let me say this: In the early 19th century (I don't go back further, yet), when Napoleon took over Europe (and some of my relatives died fitghting the french), my ancient was soldier and fell in love with a girl in Emmental. They made love, she had a Baby, and my ancient's father forced him to merry this girl. Their child couldn't stay in the poor family and was lend out to a rich farmer in the Emmental. Though he grwe up and made his way: Got married and had children. Among them: My grandfather who was t eated bad in school because he was the son of a suchcalled \"Verdingbub\" i.e. lended-child. That made my gramndfather angry - he became a socialist and a techer. He was on a black list of the many Nazis in Switzerland during WWII, but he made his way like my father and me. That's one difference. The other: (shall I really tell you this story\ufffd) When the roman slaves (Spartacus) fighted the masters, one african slave was sent to the alps to build a road over the Grimsel-Pass. Still he was renitent and was sent to a alp at the Lake of Brienz (Planalp) where he had prepare rocks for the road-making. It was in summer, and there was a farm girl looking for the cows on that alp. They fell in love and she became pregnant. In autum, when they (still) normaly bring down the cows to the valley, she didn't dare to go down. She stayed up their and got her baby. In spring, a big avelanche smahed the alp-house with the mother and the baby down to the valley. All that left was a cradle swimming on the lake of Brienz. Inside was a byby with black curled hairs and they would give him the name Aplanalp. That's my grandmother's name. More in a minute."}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (06:41)", "body": "So your name is Peter. I think I can just about handle that - reminds me of the Heidi stories my grandfather told me as a kid. First of all I must confess that I know VERY LITTLE about politics, or indeed of the history of Switzerland - even though I've been here for almost five years now. So when I express and opinion you must know that it only comes from the bit of experience I've had here, not necessarily written facts, and my opinions might be misguided. Your story is very interesting. Okay, so your grandfather was a Verdingbub. How do you mean he was treated badly? What precisely did they have against his being a lent child? I've not really heard about this. Was it the Ayrian thing, or just the normal Swiss attitude? (I can never tell.) And so then he became a socialist. Are you a socialist? I didn't know they had those here. How comforting. But tell me the good stuff about Switzerland, Peter. You're right: we SHOULD open a topic. Switzerland is not exactly part of the EU, is it?!? And come to the other conferences as well, will you? Fun conferences here are Philosophy, Food, News, Porch - oh, most of them. And of course Art, where I'm hostess. Will you come?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (09:04)", "body": "\"More in a minute.\" Hey, that baby's still stranded in the avalanche! Can't wait to hear more. How interesting. \"Hardball\" is an American expression, it means throwing some tough questions out, which is one of the reasons why we love Riette so much. She's so refreshingly forthright."}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 28, 1998 (09:29)", "body": "You find me refreshing?!?! My husband says I'm a pain in the ar$e."}, {"response": 19, "author": "ergopublic", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (06:14)", "body": "What is a minute in the web? I'm quite busy - using minutes for cildren, wife and friends. Summer's passing by and it's the week-end\ufffd Back in a minute. BTW: When I look out my window, I see the Jungfrau-mountain in the sunshine. It's still great, even after all those years and all those stories about switz\ufffdkids are calling me, have to go downstairs now. See ya yankees over there"}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Aug 29, 1998 (11:02)", "body": "A minute on the web can easily become an hour or two or three - especially when one suffers from insomnia. How many kids? I've got two - aged 2 and 3. Girls. And they're just gorgeous - when they're not fighting, that is. My husband took me up the Jungfrau (so to speak!!) 4 years ago for my twentieth birthday. It was stunning, and I had my first ever fondue on the top. Best birthday I've ever had!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "budabob", "date": "Sun, Dec  3, 2000 (00:32)", "body": "\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffdEnenKio Would like to discuss One Billion Start Up cyber bank all traded Currencys or Gold. Facts = http://www.enenkio.org - contact mp@enenkio.org - \ufffd \ufffd 808-923-0476 fax/ph ---------------------------------------------- STOP dishonoring yourselves --- AMERCIA REMOVE IT OR PROVE IT ! www.enenkio.org -- A Nation The newest OFCs, e.g., Niue and the Marshall Islands, are now sprouting in remote areas of the world, such as the Pacific. Even more \"remote\" are mere figments of fertile imaginations such as the Dominion of Malchizedek (sic) or The Kingdom of Enenkio Atol (sic), both entirely fraudulent in intent and practice.\" [note: OFC = Offshore Financial Center] Response: This unprovoked attack upon His Majesty King Remios, Monarch of the Kingdom of EnenKio, the sovereign state of EnenKio and its noble citizenry by the U.S. Department of State is a reprehensible categorically false challenge of the sovereignty of the Kingdom of EnenKio. It is also unjustifiably inflammatory and amounts to an unqualified felonious defamation of the international reputation of His Majesty King Remios, the government of the Kingdom of EnenKio and organs thereof. The unmitigated audacity and arrogance of the United States to attempt to link the Kingdom of EnenKio with Internation l Crime, narcotics trafficking, money laundering, tax evasion, international drug cartels, terrorists, bank fraud or any other sort of criminal activity, without even one microscopic fragment of substantive evidence to corroborate such deliberately nefarious statements is reprehensible in the least. This public posting shall serve as constructive notice to the United States Government that any attempt to interfere in the business of His Majesty King Remios, Iroijlaplap of the Northern Ratak atolls of the Marshall Islands, or any acts, decisions, mandates, announcements or directives thereby, shall be met with definitive responses equal to the degrees of contravention. Furthermore, this matter will not be resolved until the President of the United States issues a formal apology to His Majesty King Remios, along with the government of the Kingdom of EnenKio, and the Congress of the United States initiates a thorough investigation into the abuses of power, subversion of natural rights and illegal occupation by the United States of the islands and seas of Eneen-Kio Atoll. Congressional representatives to Hawaii, the nearest State of the United States to Eneen-Kio Atoll, and those of other states, have repeatedly been advised of the foregoing atrocities and conditions and have failed to respond in kind. The United States is obligated as the self-assured trustee of Pacific Island States in Micronesia to respond to the charges of \"ethnic cleansing\" and her responsibility to EnenKio is no less. For further information and links to documents, see: EnenKio Documents http://www.state.gov/www/global/narcotics_law/1998_narc_report/ml_intro.html http://www.state.gov/www/global/narcotics_law/1998_narc_report/index.html March 16, 1999: \ufffd\ufffdwww.enenkio.org 808 923-0476 fax/ph Forward Please ! State of Art computer, Bankers and Wireless World wide We have every thing you ever wanted. Robert Moore, Minister Plenipotentiary, Kingdom of EnenKio Foreign Trade Mission DO-MO-CO Manager, Remios Hermios Eleemosynary Trust, Majuro, Marshall Islands http://www.enenkio.org"}, {"response": 22, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Dec  3, 2000 (06:06)", "body": "Someone forgot to take their medicine this morning."}, {"response": 23, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Dec  4, 2000 (11:08)", "body": "Wow, a Plenipotentiary!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Jul  2, 2006 (05:13)", "body": "A what? politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 8, "subject": "campaign finance reform", "response_count": 13, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (23:27)", "body": "As it exists now, campaign finance reform is a buzzword used to advance other, invariably antithetical objectives- and, of course, to fatten political warchests. It is an issue easily spun, and as such there's nothing close to a consensus anywhere concerning what it's objectives ought to be, much less how to achieve them. Unless and/or until something compelling occurs (and Whitewater, and the Thompson hearings combined ain't close, tapes or no tapes) to define this issue, and begin the processes necess ry for consensus (which, for a politician, begins with the prospect of losing his job)- there will be no reform."}, {"response": 2, "author": "ledfords", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (00:05)", "body": ""}, {"response": 3, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (00:34)", "body": ""}, {"response": 4, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (01:18)", "body": ""}, {"response": 5, "author": "legaffe", "date": "Sat, Nov  8, 1997 (17:43)", "body": "What's this about the dope smuggling queen?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (03:55)", "body": "I was kidding- Lyndon LaRouche (Libertarian extraordinaire, author of Libertarian thought, such as it is) long asserted that Her Supreme Uselessness Elizabeth, of Britain, was the mastermind behind the world's heroin trade... (I think she inherited the mantle from Shirley Booth- Lyndon has unique insights into these matters)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (09:35)", "body": "Is he still in prison?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (23:02)", "body": "Don't know- if memory serves, he bunked with Jim Bakker (in the joint). Can you imagine the scintillating level of conversation maintained by those two?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (03:20)", "body": "Hey, based on certain conversation overheard on the front porch recently, KitchenManager's got 'em both licked..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Fri, Nov 14, 1997 (00:52)", "body": "Most emphatically..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Jan 12, 1998 (04:05)", "body": ""}, {"response": 15, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Jan 12, 1998 (12:08)", "body": ""}, {"response": 17, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Jan 12, 1998 (20:24)", "body": "actually, it's even money regarding whether \"contract\" or \"contact\" occurs first (bet on the latter, though, and give points if you hafta...) politics conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 9, "subject": "Presidential Election in the year 2000", "response_count": 34, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Tue, Oct 28, 1997 (23:07)", "body": "I've read that Bob Kerry is considering another run. Gore, though, will probably bury everyone, considering his evident fundraising skills, much as Bob Dole did in '96- it's difficult to beat an insider, especially when he's outspending you 5 to 1. The republicans have several attractive candidates- John Kaschich (sic) comes to mind- but they will certainly choose someone else. Personally crossing my fingers for Hunter Thompson. \"Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas\" is currently in production (with Johnny Depp portraying the eminent doctor)- hopefully, this will produce a groundswell..."}, {"response": 2, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (00:37)", "body": "I believe it would be a perfect time for a female vice president. If Gore would choose someone like Ann Richards, and it being the year 2000 and all, I believe it would get past the voters. WER"}, {"response": 3, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (00:58)", "body": "I agree, and Ann, I think, would make a terrific national candidate. But wouldn't she and Hunter make a great ticket? Irredeemable and redeemed- great balance. And instead of doing the boring bus thing like Clinton and Gore, they could do it on Harleys (it would be great TV)..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (01:13)", "body": "Not too mention novel... WER"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Molelakehoop", "date": "Sat, Nov  1, 1997 (12:15)", "body": "How about a team of ANGRY WHITE MALES such as Pat Buchanan, Newt Gingrich, Bob Dornan, Pat Robertson, Dan Quayle etc? So what if a bunch of wimpy weak ass people don't like them? They know whats right for this country! God told them! The U.S. doesn't need another wimpy Democrat like Clinton! Reagan and Bush proved their manhood by invading weak countries like Nicaraugua, Grenada, and Panama! We also don't need another woman like Ferraro insisting that they have a women have a right to decide what t do with their bodies. Why can't they stay home--where they belong??"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov  1, 1997 (15:06)", "body": "I think it's shaping up to Al Gore vs. who knows, probably George Bush Jr, the current governor of Texas. Polls show that he's the only viable Republican outside of Colin Powell. My prediction Al Gore and Bill Bradley vs. George Bush and Colin Powell. (President and VP, respectively). There's an outside chance Hilary would be the VP choice."}, {"response": 7, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Nov  2, 1997 (03:45)", "body": "I think Gore-Bradley is a safe-money choice. Must believe that any ticket containing Colin Powell would be headed by same- and cannot imagine George, Jr. being secure enough to choose a man of Powell's stature, anyway (Dukakis-Bentson all over again). Powell would be a formidable candidate, regardless of one's opinion of him- but I still wonder if the mussing up he would recieve from primary fights will cause the process to remain unpalateable to him. Also, every other general-become-president regarded the office as a sort of ceremonial post, due him in his retirement; Colin Powell does not suffer such delusions, though, and must question, I would think, whether he is truly prepared- in training or by temperament- to serve the office well. A few years ago I would have laughed at the notion of Jr. Bush becoming governor, much less president- but these are indeed strange, twisted times we live in. I laughed at the idea of the Gipper becoming president, too...Come to think of it, thought the idea of Georg , Sr. being elected seemed kind of out there,too (even Nixon didn't want to be seen with the guy)..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov  2, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "Gore and a woman vp would be a great choice. Diane Feinstein's a democrat right?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Nov  2, 1997 (23:57)", "body": "Diane Feinstein would be a hell of a good choice as VP- but I don't think a ticket with her name on it would be electable. She's too closely identified with the percieved California/Frisco liberal axis that dominated the party a few years ago (and gave birth to all those \"angry white males\" we keep hearing about). Just as \"only Nixon could go to China\" can only a republican from California hope to help a national ticket (assuming he's not Pete Wilson, of course). I sense that Al Gore's candidacy is goi g to suffer from some of the same problems that derailed Bob Dole's- big monied insider beating up all the comparative little guys (thus creating lots of hard feelings within the party); great popularity among party activists, but projecting a rather detached and aloof image to the general electorate; and no clear- and more importantly, concise- reason offered for wanting to be president. Gore does have a few competitive advantages compared to Dole- he's more comfortable with rhetoric, and thus if he's a le to concoct even a half-assed theme for his candidacy, he'll deliver it better than Dole did (and with less evident embarassment), and he's a better sell with female voters (and that's the segment that really made Dole's candidacy untenable from the outset). A compelling female ticket mate could very well put Gore over the top- and I think Ann Richards would merit great consideration..."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov  3, 1997 (09:15)", "body": "Ann Richards would be great. Bush Jr. might counter with former cheerleader Kay Bailey Hutchinson, current Texas Senator. She's pretty safe."}, {"response": 11, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Nov  3, 1997 (15:22)", "body": "One would probably preclude the other- thus, if Hutchinson were chosen (which is a distinct, unsettling possibility, though not by Junior, because 2 Texans on the same ticket wouldn't play well to a nation half sick of Texans already), then Ann couldn't be, as the republicans convention a month before the democrats. In that scenario- Ann being unavailable- If I'm Al Gore I still look west, and preferably still for a female, though no one comes immediately to mind. And it cannot be someone similar to Pat Schroeder or Mosely(?)-Braun (i.e., perceived ideologues, captive to narrow/special interests). Patty Murray (I believe that's her name- she's a senator from Oregon or Washington) seems rather interesting. Even though she's a first termer- and entered politics as pretty much a single issue candidate (the Brady bill, I believe)- she's projected intelligence, good sense, and integrity the few times I've seen her. Don't know, however, if she possesses the requisite campaign skills vital to be Al Gore's ru ning mate, nor whether she possesses any such ambitions. Mary Landreaux (again not sure I got the name right- haven't been paying much attention to politics lately, obviously) is certainly one to watch- she's extremely telegenic, articulate, principled, bright, is a terrific campaigner (any liberal elected senator in Louisiana merits immediate tenure)- and probably drips with ambition. Louisiana is a southern state, though, and a small one at that, and Landreaux would have served less than 2 years at th time of her presumed selection- hardly long enough to merit real consideration, probably (assuming she'll be permitted to occupy her seat at all- former sen. Woody Redneck, or whatever his name is, has been raising holy hell with anyone that will listen since she had the audacity to whip his inbred you-know-what)..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "legaffe", "date": "Sat, Nov  8, 1997 (17:45)", "body": "What year, month is the GOP convention. That's good for the Democrats to get second pick, how did they luck out this way?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (05:21)", "body": "Republicans meet in July, Democrats in August, 2000. Just tradition, I guess. And not sure the positioning really matters, all that much. For all the hoopla generated by VP choice (and it really is fun to handicap), don't know of a single lesser half this century that actually appreciably influenced an election, much less decided one, with the arguable exception of LBJ, in 1960. The margin of victory was a little more than 100,000, out of nearly 70 million votes cast, and 84 electoral votes. The Mass. born, Harvard educated, Catholic Kennedy actually carried the ten states constituting the \"old south\" by more than a half-million votes (5 pct. points), winning in Texas (by a mere 40,000 votes), Arkansas (30,000 votes, but only 50.2% majority- Harry Byrd carried 7%), Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana (again, only 50.4%- Byrd polled 21%), N. Carolina (58,000 votes), and S. Carolina (9,000 votes). Losing Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, N. Carolina, and S. Carolina would have swung the election for Nixon (and would ave given him 31 states, to 18 for Kennedy, 1 for Byrd), and one could argue this may well have occurred without the reassuring presence of LBJ on the ticket. And doesn't Nixon's choice of Cabot Lodge for his running mate seem rather bizarre? What could his logic have been? Lodge could hardly help him win the northeast- a dim prospect for Nixon, where Kennedy played best (and won resoundingly)- especially considering that Kennedy had beaten the incumbent senator Lodge badly (in '52), tete a tete. So, ust how in the world did Nixon expect Lodge to help his ticket? Could it have been compelled by his legendary sense of inferiority- the idea of heading a ticket over an effete, old money type like Lodge? (If it were a fault, grievously hath he answered it, I guess...)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (09:43)", "body": "Good observations, it would seem pretty clear that LBJ put JFK over the topic and, ironically, inherited his legacy. Certainly, Gore beat Quayle in the debates but probably wasn't the deciding factor. I hope that Gore learns from the example of JFK and finds someone who will complement the ticket. Gore is an absolute shoe in right? For the GOP, it would almost have to be Bush Jr. or Colin Powell or a joint ticket with both of them. That latter would be very scary for the Democrats. Both Sr and Jr Bush seem to picking up popularity lately but Clinton may have taken teflon coating classes from Reagan, the GOP is going overboard with this campaign finance pot calling the kettle black stuff, it may backlash them in 2000. Are the people ready for one party Democrat government? Are they fed up with Congress to the point where this could possibly happen?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (00:06)", "body": "Al Gore would, it seems, be a shoe-in for the nomination, I would think. Consider, though, recent history (post WW2) of \"shoe-in\" candidates- this defined as candidates possessed of such momentum, connections, and- most important of all- warchests that their nomination seems a foregone conclusion. By my count, 9 men fit these criteria: Dewey('48); Eisenhower('52); Stevenson('52 and '56); Nixon('60); Goldwater('64); Muskie('72); Mondale('84); Bush('88); and Dole('92). You see where I'm headed with this, I'm sure- these men lost 80% of the ensuing general elections (except poor Ed Muskie, of course- unable to secure his party's nomination after publication of the \"cannook letter\", and other assorted fabrications of Nixon's USC mafia). And I would argue that the two winners were aberrations- Eisenhower was perceived as a war hero (and, inarguably, had more hair than Adlai, an important consideration), and Bush- well, I guess the words \"Michael Dukakis\" pretty much say it all. There's something to be said or the conditioning a candidate recieves in a tough, open primary fight- it tightens his message, by necessity, and forces him to deal with important issues, sooner and within the arena (the inevitable debates, these days), and it forces him, too, to assess the strengths and weaknesses of his candidacy in realistic terms, while there's still time to do something about it. All in all, an important edge, I believe... Al Gore is a pretty smart guy, though. I would be shocked if he chose a Dan Quayle type for his ticket. And I think you can tell a lot about a candidate from that choice (though the electorate obviously could care less). It spoke well of Bill Clinton to have chosen Al Gore- spoke well, I thought, too, of Bob Dole to have chosen Jack Kemp (a really top notch person, in my estimation- and I am NOT a Republican- just think politics needs more people of Kemp's quality, disposition and intellect). I'm sure Al Gore will make a good choice. And don't think it too likely that Democrats (or Republicans) will gain control of White House and Congress- I basically subscribe to materialist conception of history. People generally vote their pocket books, so if economy stays good, look for more of same..."}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (11:31)", "body": "I hope he picks Bradley or Ann Richards. Now, what about Jerry Brown? Is he positioning himself by running for Mayor of Oakland? Will Clinton run for Mayor of Little Rock?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (13:24)", "body": "I've always liked Jerry Brown, and I think he could make some noise in California politics- nationally, though, can't see him ever becoming more than a peripheral player (too wedded to that \"Governor Moonbeam\" image, from the '70's). What Bill Clinton will do after his presidency is rather intriguing, conceptually- what does one do, after being president of the United States? And he will be a relatively young man, too. We'll learn a lot about who he is, I think, based on the decisions he makes then..."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Molelakehoop", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (20:16)", "body": "Colin Powell as veep would clinch the presidency for any Republican candidate. I am still not convinced Powell wants to tangle with the right wing of the Republican party. Powell definately is a moderate. He could even be described as liberal on such issues as affirmative action, etc. The right wing would crucify him if he ran for prez--mainly in the primaries. Powell's wife doesn't seem to enjoy living under the microscope of politics. It is my opinion that Powell would readily be elected president if he could make it through the tortuous primaries. I do not see Bush as a viable candidate--but I know that in politics to expect the unexpected. It is my belief that a moderate Republican could beat ANY Democrat. The electoral college currently favors Republicans. The NE usually goes Democrat, The south and west go Republican. California is a swing state. The Midwest also switches. Illinois in particular, as always, goes to the highest bidder. The Republicans, with Bob Dole in 1996 came very cl se to winning. Bob Dole was the Democrats answer to Dukakis, a poor speaker, perceived as out-of-touch, and despised by most females, Dole still made a better showing than Dukakis. I would venture to say that any other candidate (except the crackpot Pat Buchanan) could have beaten Clinton. Don't look for the Republicans to make the stupid mistake of nominating another unelectable chump. Another item that will influence the election is the kooky Ross Perot. He can be counted on to suck off 5 to 10% of the vote. John"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 10, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "Good points, but I think that Bush Jr. is a lot stronger than you think, the polls already have him ahead of anyone else in the field. And he's playing it cool, tending to Texas and making an occasional foray in the national spotlight. Do you think Hilary will venture into politics someday?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (03:43)", "body": "No VP can clinch a presidency for anyone- and though it appears now that Colin Powell would be an asset to a ticket, he remains unknown and unproven until he has endured the rigors of the process. And it remains unlikely that he will offer himself up in that capacity- he has stated in the past that he would not, for one thing, and unlike most practiced politicians, Powell is not, I think, a man who gives his word lightly. Whether he would win an election as his party's nominee is problematic, of course. any candidates have appeared invulnerable in the year before the shooting begins. Most have withered. Colin Powell cannot only be described as liberal regarding social issues- he manifestly is one. On what issues can he be construed as being Republican (other than perhaps a visceral dislike for Bill Clinton)? He has as much business being in the Republican party as Bill Weld, and probably only a slightly better chance of securing the nomination of a party often captive to the whims of types like Jesse Hel s and Ralph Reed. And I don't buy that conventional wisdom crap about the electoral college- it favors the political wind. Good candidates reflecting that wind get votes and win states, and the electoral college favors them, regardless of party. To equate Bob Dole with Michael Dukakis is terribly unfair- that \"unelectable chump\" had one of the most distinguished careers in the history of American politics. He is a man profoundly respected by Democrats and Republicans alike, and a man who damned near died in the service of his country- he is that rarity of rarities, a real hero, in a time when heroes are pretty much served up on the cheap. (Of course, I still didn't vote for him. Do admire him, though...) I would be very suprised if Junior Bush didn't enter the race, at this point. But don't be too impressed with early polling numbers- most folks around the country don't yet know him, and much of his support now derives from name recognition. And I would be delighted, in a sense, if Hillary Clinton entered politics, because I'm an admirer- but in what capacity do you think she could do so? She galvanizes Republicans ala Gere/MacLaine/Fonda. At this point, she would, I believe, be a serious detriment to a national ticket. Perhaps she could enter Arkansas state politics- maybe run for senator or governor. Not familiar enough with Arkansas to know if that is tenable, though..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Molelakehoop", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (08:29)", "body": ""}, {"response": 22, "author": "Molelakehoop", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (08:49)", "body": "Let me reword my previous response. I referred to Bob Dole as a chump. He is a chump only in the context of being a serious electable presidential candidate. As to Hillary Clinton running for political office, in my humble opinion, this is unthinkable. Do I think see would be capable--yes. The main thing wrong with Hillary is that she is a very strong willed, intelligent, professional woman with liberal leanings. This is completely emasculating to the men of this country. Hillary needs a political c nsultant to soften her image. Elizabeth Dole would be a much more viable candidate. Even though, Mrs Dole is every bit the strong willed professional woman, she comes off as someone less threatening to the men of this country. At least this is the public persona these 2 women have. I see in the news that Colin Powell has taken himself out of the running for the GOP presidential nomination. This throws the field wide open for the GOP. John"}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (09:52)", "body": "Open for Bush Jr. He's the only real viable candidate at this point. Kemp is a distant second. Comparable to Bill Bradley."}, {"response": 24, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Wed, Nov 12, 1997 (18:18)", "body": "It would appear so. But how viable a candidate did Bill Clinton seem in Nov., '89? Or Dukakis, in '85, Carter in'73, McGovern in '69, Nixon in '65, etc...? During this period, each nominee, other than these mentioned, was either an incumbent president, or a former VP- with the exceptions of Reagan (who had run for president before, and had an experienced org. in place), and of Dole (the consummate Washington insider, a former VP nominee, and a veteran of several pres. runs, as well). Junior Bush has not et completed a single term as Governor, and that is the extent of his public career. It stands to reason that another candidate will emerge. The Republicans possess several potentially attractive candidates, Jack Kemp being one, though he not well regarded among the fringe elements which seem to exert such tremendous control among them these days. Plus, he's a genuinely nice guy, averse to naked partisanship, which doesn't set well with Republican activists nostalgic for those heady, happy Ailes/Atwater ays. John Kaschich (msp. again, but you know who I mean) is the candidate who scares me most- he seems quite electable, but he is pretty young, and not yet a member of the Senate. Personally, my fingers are crossed for our own Sen. Goober Gramm (I KNOW he's beatable)..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (09:36)", "body": "Never heard of the latter two. You're not talking Phil Gramm are you?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "Molelakehoop", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (09:59)", "body": "What about John McCain, the soft spoken Senator from Arizona. He is an actual Vietnam War veteran. In this cynical age, credibility should be given to those who actually where pro-war and served in it. Dan Quayle was pro-war as long as he didn't have to put his butt on the line. I am unfamiliar with Junior Bush's military history (or lack thereof). John"}, {"response": 27, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (10:40)", "body": "He might have been in the National Guard or something. I'm not familiar either."}, {"response": 28, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (20:11)", "body": "Yes, by \"Goober\" Gramm I was referring to our own Phil Gramm (\"Goober\", of course, an epithet denoting endearment)... John McCain is an interesting candidate, and seems to be well thought of in Washington. Certainly bears watching... Is particularly odious, I think, for a Republican candidate to have avoided military service, given all of the belligerent posturing many in that group are wont to do. Anyone read Al Franken's \"Operation Chickenhawk\" (from Rush Limbaugh Is...)?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (22:39)", "body": "Why on earth do you like Gramm?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (23:48)", "body": "I was kidding- I detest Phil Gramm (as does, from what I understand, most everyone in Washington)- and it embarrasses me, as a native Texan, to be represented by a man that is essentially a booze-sodden, publicity-seeking cracker. Probably true, though, that referring to Gramm as \"Goober\" unfairly demeans Goobers, everywhere.. Was kidding, too, when I suggested that I favored Gramm for Rep. nomination (even latest incarnation of GOP isn't dumb enough to give him a chance at that)- just meant that Gore could easily beat a boob like Gramm, and, not belonging to any organized political party, I naturally would like to see Gore win..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 14, 1997 (05:11)", "body": "OK. that's clear about Gramm. He would make Gore very electable but is the GOP dumb enough to run a candidate like this? He'll undoubtedly enter the primaries. With Powell out, it's looking more and more like Bush Jr. who already has tasted some of the power of the White House through Bush Sr."}, {"response": 32, "author": "Hoop", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (07:27)", "body": "I see on CNN that Lamar Alexander, the candidate that was so roundly trounced in the Republican primaries has thrown his hat in the ring for 2000. He makes no secret of his driving ambition to become president. I doubt if he does much better this time around. I'm not sure on this, but doesn't the \"heart and soul\" of the Republican party despise moderate/liberal Republicans--despite what is publicly said. The \"Holy Rollers\" and \"Angry White Men\" seem to be in charge of the party and rule with an Iron ist. Nixon advised fellow Republicans to run \"right\" in the primaries and then move to the \"center\" for the general election. Is it my imagination or have the Republicans (since Reagan) run \"right\" in the primaries and then stay \"right\" during the general elections?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (09:02)", "body": "That's right."}, {"response": 35, "author": "pmnh", "date": "Sun, Nov 30, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "Yeah, they're held captive by activists, much the same way Democrats were in the 70's and the 80's...Pat Buchanan has sort of become their Jesse Jackson, showing up every 4 years to undo their \"best-laid schemes\"(heartwarming, really, and it could well happen again)... I'll grant you Lamar Alexander doesn't appear, on the face of it, to be a promising candidate...Stranger things have happened, though, and a lot depends on how successful he is raising money between now and the first straw-polls...Because he ran last time, the rudiments of an organization is in place, and by withdrawing when he did, as he did, he collected some chits that will undoubtedly benefit him this time around...And Alexander strikes me as the kind of guy unabashedly willing to do what it takes to e nominated/elected...If I'm Alexander, I add a little supply-side rhetoric to my own- I think it's essential for him to keep Forbes-Kemp out of the race, and not divvy up the suburban vote any more than necessary...He might also consider wearing more ties... politics conference Main Menu"}]}]}