{"conf": "travel", "generated_at": "2026-04-26T08:00:02.954878Z", "threads": [{"num": 1, "subject": "let's get to know each other", "response_count": 71, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "TedA", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (12:36)", "body": "I'm located in Los Altos (35 miles south of San Francisco - deepest, darkest Silicon Valley). Have done house swaps last year with Edinburgh, prior year with London/Cotswolds. Hope to do one somewhere on European contintent. (Have highly desireable places in Northern California for anyone who is interested in corresponding on the subject.) Am also interested in spending a week this spring somewhere in Central/ South America. Any recommendations out there?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "MEgabiT", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (11:18)", "body": "Hi TedB I'm located in Rzeszow, Poland (see in Travel/Poland) Have always dreamed of spending a (working) holidays in th U.S"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (09:38)", "body": "Howdy, it's the Finnish Eccentric again. I was born in Oulu, where I live even today. Check out their URL address at http://www.ouka.fi/oulu_ee.html or via my English homepage at http://raita.oulu.fi/~mplauron/English.html . I've travelled mostly in the Europe. I got a chance to see the North Korea when Kim Il Sung was alive - there aren't many Finns who've been there. I could tell you a lot about it, but will save the bandwidth. I'd like to visit the USA, (and British Islands), Chinese farmlands and Japan. Maybe I will, some day."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "Feel like starting a Finland topic, Mixu?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "willem", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (01:38)", "body": "I'm from Curacao. Was born here, but lived in St. Maarten, Holland, and Canada. Travelled to Germany, USA, Venezuela, Jamaica, Puerto Rico. I'm presenty living in Curacao again."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (03:28)", "body": "Welcome Willem, I hope you come join us frequently and tell your friends about the Spring. I'd be interested in hearing more about Curacao."}, {"response": 7, "author": "diana", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (17:28)", "body": "I live on Kodiak Island in Alaska, USA. Spent this Spring wandering on my own around central and the Pacific side of Mexico and had a wonderful time. Would like to try Costa Rica, the British Isles and Switzerland soon. Though would be happy wandering anywhere."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (09:07)", "body": "A Finland topic. Hmm... Why not? Although would anyone be interested in a 5 million people country in the far north? I hope so. Well, we DO have Santa Claus, lots of clean nature and that kind of stuff. Yes, I'd like to start a Finland topic."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (20:34)", "body": "There are far fewer folks in Curacao than Finland. And this topic is doing very nicely. Create it and perhps post the read only url on some Finnish newsgroups. Hopefully, they (the Finns) will come."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Dana", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (04:11)", "body": "Hi, I am Dana and I live in Amsterdam. i grew up in Cura\ufffdao and have great memories from it, just ask Paul B. My last trip has been to Isreal and the Sinai I really reccomend going there. Holland itself is a fun country."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (04:34)", "body": "What do remember about Paul B? I need something to kid him about."}, {"response": 12, "author": "Dana", "date": "Wed, Feb 19, 1997 (15:05)", "body": "Well let's just say that Paul and I used to hang out together a lot. He was lots of fun to be around. We used to drive around the Island in a red RX-7 and follow our \"teachers\". I do not think it is fair to dig up too much dirt. Why don't you mail me and we can \"chat\" further about PB?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "KDurham", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (01:06)", "body": "Aloha kakou (hello all) I'm stumbling in late, as usual. I live in Honolulu and have visited most of the Hawaiian islands, as well as Australia, New Zealand and Korea, on the Pacific side of the world, and Germany and Austria on the Atlantic side of the world. I'm originally from the state of Maine, in the northeast US (almost Canada), and lived in Washington, DC suburbs for five years. Be happy to answer any questions if you're planning a visit to paradise."}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (01:10)", "body": "Tell us about yourself and what you do there, if you don't mind. And give us the address to your website and other websites relating to your paradiasical part of the world. Thanks for checking in. Aloha."}, {"response": 15, "author": "KDurham", "date": "Mon, May 19, 1997 (14:26)", "body": "Aloha kakahiaka (good morning -- it's morning here!) Hawaii is a magical place, but also a \"real\" place. Honolulu is a big city, ninth largest in the US, with population approaching a million when visitors (tourists) are included. About 6 million people visit us each year. We have the typical \"big city\" problems and the typical \"resort destination\" problems. What I believe sets us apart is the people. The weather is nearly perfect, and the mountains, valleys and beaches are spectacular, but it is the people and the culture that have convinced me I don' want to live anywhere else. It's not the best for many, though. We are the most isolated spot on earth, more than 2,000 miles from any other major land mass and a four to five hour plane trip to the closest city (L.A.). The cost of living is perhaps the highest in the US, depending on how it's measured (paradise premium), and salaries tend to be less (sunshine discount). We find a way to do with less and many things are free, after we fork out big bucks for the necessities. I'm a retired banker, after 20 years I say retired, but that doesn't mean I get to play golf every day! It only means I'm doing other things now. Part of my time goes to volunteer work with Hawaii's oldest environmental non-profit, The Outdoor Circle, whose mission is to \"keep Hawaii clean, green and beautiful by preserving, protecting and enhancing Hawaii's environment for future generations\". The Circle has planted most of Honolulu's trees and is responsible for Hawaii's no billboard laws. We're cel brating 85 years this month, and we've just launched a website, TOC , still under construction. The rest of my time is spent on the Internet. Two good friends started the Hawaii Forum on Compuserve two years ago and I tagged along to learn about the online world. About six months ago, we expanded out onto the Net with a message forum website Hawaii Link intended to answer visitor questions, provide a place for people to keep in touch with Hawaii, and to spread Aloha. We just had a major crash and lost our message base, so we're rebuilding, but our members are rallying 'round and helping us to make it even better. A few months ago, I followed a lead to the Mining Company and now run a site about Honolulu . This is a frames site, with no alternate, just so you know and won't go there if you don't like/use frames. We write weekly features on our topic and maintain a library of annotated links to help surfers find what they seek quickly. None of these earn me a living, yet, but I do see the potential. I kinda consider myself to be back in school. I won't get a degree, but I sure am learning at a pace I haven't felt since school days, with so much more to learn. Which is why I'm browsing around some of the message sections here at The Spring. I'll be checking in every day or two and would love to answer questions about life in paradise. Although we don't keep score, necessarily, it's a way for me to share some of what I do know about in exchange for learning what I don't know. Sorry this rambled so much! A hui hou kakou (until we meet again) Kathy"}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May 20, 1997 (09:21)", "body": "Rambling is encouraged! Aloha again."}, {"response": 17, "author": "nancyw", "date": "Fri, Jun 13, 1997 (21:37)", "body": "I'm from the Pacific Northwest where we have webbed feet! I spent a year in Sao Paulo, Brasil as an exchange student decades ago, and spent one summer doing aquaculture research on Pine Cay in the Turks and Caicos and a semester doing same on Cape Cod. Have lived in PA, NC, WA, CA, MA... in terms of US states. Look forward to a trip to Italy next year to celebrate turning 40 and 14 years of mariage!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jun 14, 1997 (09:48)", "body": "Cool. I read about your stint at (was it) Woods Hole in your resume."}, {"response": 19, "author": "Everest", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (13:28)", "body": "Hi everyone! I am Charles Lin, Chinese-American. Actually, I was born in Taiwan but immigrated to US when I was 12. I lived in NJ, MA, and now in CA. Also studied and worked in Japan for 6 years. I love travelling, especially nature, and visiting historical sites, learn ethnic culture and arts. Have visited Nepal (many many times), Korea, China (the whole \"Central Plain\", i.e. the whole eastern and central chunk of China where Chinese (Han) people supposedly originated) and Silk Road), Japan, and extensively in US. Most recently spent two weeks in Italy (first time in my life!). Had a wonderful time. Beautiful countryside and unbelievable art culture everywhere. Italy is probably one of few contries remaining in the world where \"meistro\" is still in high demand and well respected by society (and earn very good money for that matter). In many countries, people have just abandoned art for technology or finance careers, and those who stick to art can only become rich after they are dead. Please excuse me for the generalization. Visited Dolomites (Italian alps), Milan, Florence, Siena, San Gimignano, and others. Enjoyed wonderful Italian meals and wine everyday. Place want to visit: Boreo, Galapago Islands, Central and South America, Africa (Sarengetti), and the rest of world and countries! Speak English, Chinese, Japanese, and some German (not using for over 15 years and forgot a lot). Want to learn Nepali and Italian. I gave up my engineering job and now run my own adventure travel company, Classic Himalaya Travel, http://www.classichimal.com Hope this self-intro is not too boring or too long, chat later, Charles"}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul  4, 1997 (16:19)", "body": "Not at all, what a fascinating time you've had. I hope you tell us some of the details in specific topics about these different countries, esp. China which is very much in the limelight these days."}, {"response": 21, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Sep 26, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "I'm experiencing wanderlust again. I haven't traveled out of state for over a month... I'm due. Places I've always wanted to visit: Italy, Greece, Olympia National Forest, the Grand Canyon, Hawaii I'm saving all my pennies and adding up frequent flyer miles..."}, {"response": 22, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (11:31)", "body": "Traveling to: San Diego 12/1 - 12/5 Phoenix 1210 - 12/14 San Antonio/Austin 12/22 - 1/3 Eagerly anticipating: Seattle June 1998 New Zealand November 1998"}, {"response": 24, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (19:56)", "body": "only in my dreams..."}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (01:03)", "body": "I dreamed the Pope came to visit me the other day. And he stayed in the attic and got lost looknig for the multitudes. No, I'm not Catholic."}, {"response": 27, "author": "spaman", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (01:54)", "body": "hey all. my passion is mexico with secondary fits of interest in central america. spas and hot springs are what i look for as well as anything off the beaten track. love to talk to all interested. \"mexico\" mike."}, {"response": 28, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (19:25)", "body": "Well, I know we all like to look for hot spots. Preferably on one another."}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (23:37)", "body": "I met Mike at the Whole Life Expo. Wasn't that a great event, Mike? Since you showed up I'll run some shots of it on our website this weekend and y'all can see Mike in action, among the other folks and booths. Mike, keep comin' round cause you're an interesting guy and we need your energy here!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "spaman", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (01:36)", "body": "terry, thanks. i will drop by on a regular basis. i am available for anyone with an interest in mexicos hot springs. will put in my 2 cents worth wherever needed. mexico mike."}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (20:19)", "body": "Pretty sure if you keep popping around we'll have lots of questions for ya."}, {"response": 33, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Dec 17, 1997 (20:16)", "body": "you're so coy..."}, {"response": 34, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (02:42)", "body": "(and damned shy, also...)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Dec 18, 1997 (19:27)", "body": "yeah, yeah, yeah! hiding behind the keyboard are you?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (11:21)", "body": "I tend to be quite gregarious especially in situations I am comfortable in, uncomfortable in and unsure about! I go through introverted phases (no really) but usually when I'm working out a dilemma. I am self-confident but doubt my abilities frequently. Coy and straightforward A partier and a homebody Thoughtful and rash One big (okay not so big) contradiction with (usually) a smile on my face. Umm. Except when I'm angry. Oh and I tend to babble when I'm not spouting out wisdom from another plane of thought."}, {"response": 39, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (15:25)", "body": "*shy smile*"}, {"response": 41, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Dec 19, 1997 (19:37)", "body": "practicing my duality!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "lorsho", "date": "Thu, Feb 12, 1998 (15:49)", "body": "Hello, Let me stop lurking and introduce myself. I am Lorry and live in Kansas. I am using wintalk for the second time since I learned of it at a national conference. I have a hugh interest in Micronesia and the Pacific region after living on various islands for about 10 years. I am still amazed at the technology available to the world. I intend to check back on occasion to see who is reading these discussions."}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Feb 12, 1998 (23:04)", "body": "We can start a topic on that! Glad your joining us."}, {"response": 44, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Mar  2, 1998 (10:29)", "body": "Traveling to Texas in April. Unfortunately I won't make it to Austin. *frown* Just a short weekend trip to visit my father and see his new place! My only goal is to drag him out to a performance and to a good meal (he works too much!). Houston doesn't have much purpose beyond housing some real culture and good restaurants!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Mar  3, 1998 (18:46)", "body": "I hope to. As most fathers do, my dad treats me like a little princess, so I'm sure dragging him out will not be a great chore!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "chiefluro", "date": "Fri, Mar  6, 1998 (00:06)", "body": "Hi All ! Am retired 30yrs in Uncle Sams Air Force. Have visited many countries in Europe, while stationed in Holland (Camp New Amsterdam, Zeist). Was also in Korea back in early 50s. Last year I paid my first visit to Hawaii. Great place. Would like to hear about out of the way places to visit there. Also took a two-week, most enjoyable , cruise/land tour of Alaska with Princess Lines. We fell in love with the Kenai Peninsular. Am looking for some interesting places to visit in that region, since my wife and I would like to return in a year or two. Will go into detail for anyone interested in above locations. Am originally from Bangor, Maine, now permanently settled in Ft Lauderdale. Palmer"}, {"response": 50, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Mar  6, 1998 (10:35)", "body": "ditto. good to see you over in the fitness conference as well! An old friend has spent the past two years on cruise ships playing in their jazz ensemble. He did a six week stint on a cruise that explored the Alaskan region. Next time he and I speak, I'll ask if he has any suggestions."}, {"response": 51, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Mar 15, 1998 (16:42)", "body": "Chiefluro, we'll be vacationing near Bangor this summer (Acadia Nat'l Park), anything nearby a must-see?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Mar 25, 1999 (13:00)", "body": "I just met somebody who claims NORWAY is preferable to the Alps, as far as ANY skiing is concerned. She says, everything but booze is cheaper there, and it's not as overrun. Slopes are supposed to be steep, but funky. Well, she aught to know, she's a geologist."}, {"response": 53, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Mar 26, 1999 (12:23)", "body": "I never knew that funky was a geological term..."}, {"response": 54, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, Mar 27, 1999 (13:21)", "body": "Life-long learning, isn't that what they call it? I'm glad it works on other folks, too... (HAHAHAHAHA)"}, {"response": 55, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Mar 31, 1999 (10:53)", "body": "I have a webcam site bookmarked so I can gaze longingly at Stavanger Harbor anytime I want..."}, {"response": 56, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Apr  1, 1999 (10:16)", "body": "and the url would be?"}, {"response": 57, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Apr  4, 1999 (23:08)", "body": "Here it is: http://home.sol.no/~kmeyer/virtual.htm What I'd really like is one overlooking a fjord."}, {"response": 58, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Apr 10, 1999 (02:15)", "body": "maybe you can find one here... http://esoterism.com/video.html it is a Clickable World Map of Live WebCams"}, {"response": 59, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Apr 11, 1999 (17:30)", "body": "Cool site! I clicked on the west coast of Norway and got the same webcam I have bookmarked! It doesn't help that it's practically midnight there."}, {"response": 60, "author": "wer", "date": "Sun, Apr 11, 1999 (22:47)", "body": "good point"}, {"response": 61, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Apr 19, 1999 (15:41)", "body": "I would like regulars of this conference invite to visit the International Conflicts conference here on the Spring: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/InternationalConflicts/all This conference is dedicated to the disputes between groups all over the world, be that social, cultural, political or ethnical differences."}, {"response": 62, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Apr 22, 1999 (18:03)", "body": "for webcams in Switzerland (if you can read French) see http://www.lyoba.ch/meteo/webcam/index.html"}, {"response": 63, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Apr 26, 1999 (22:29)", "body": "oui, oui!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, May 10, 1999 (06:46)", "body": "STACEY! You got those Prague pictures scanned, now there is NO EXCUSE and NO HIDING from putting them in this confs Prague topic. NOW! (Oh, and please tell us something about the pics, what and where, etc.)"}, {"response": 65, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, May 10, 1999 (06:50)", "body": "Oh, and while I enjoy the rare strain of authoritarian feeling, I might as well plow ahead: STACEY! When you're done, do the same with the Berlin pics. Plus scan that alien tracking device AND WOULD YOU PULEEEEEEEEEEZE put it into the Abduction top in Paranormal conf!!! Just to warn the world... (hi, stacey! how's the spring in colorado? over here, it makes folks cheeky - wonder if anyone notices, though. ;=} )"}, {"response": 66, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, May 10, 1999 (09:49)", "body": "spring's BEEEEE-U-TIful! sunny and flowery and breezy and the like!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, May 10, 1999 (10:12)", "body": "And, like, cheeky! (grinning stupidly, tongue-in-cheek, Yours Truly A.)"}, {"response": 68, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, May 10, 1999 (11:36)", "body": "*grin* and such nice cheeks I'm sure!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Aug 25, 1999 (20:32)", "body": "I just found this through the magic of telnet. Is there anything anyone could possibly be wanting to know about me that is not posted somewhere on Spring? Ask!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (07:56)", "body": "What colour nail polish do you wear?"}, {"response": 71, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (21:51)", "body": "None...when i did it was very pale pink and slightly plearly."}, {"response": 72, "author": "Ree", "date": "Sat, Mar 11, 2000 (09:45)", "body": "You're really feminine, huh Marcia? I find that cool."}, {"response": 73, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (20:06)", "body": "Tailored-feminine more than fussy-feminine...but definitely feminine. Thanks!"}, {"response": 74, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Mar 14, 2000 (16:38)", "body": "I shall definitely buy midnight blue nail varnish (perhaps with sparkly bits) to take back to Africa with me - it's quite the thing! At least it'll look good on my toes in sandals *lol*"}, {"response": 75, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Mar 14, 2000 (16:49)", "body": "Somehow, this is not how I had you pictured...*lol* (get off the computer, Marcia)"}, {"response": 76, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Mar 14, 2000 (23:06)", "body": "I have to keep changing the picture - keeps you on your toes! *lol* (pity you got off - I'm working, well sposed to be - 4 am)"}, {"response": 77, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Mar 14, 2000 (23:11)", "body": "I'm here!!!"}, {"response": 78, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Sun, Jul 22, 2001 (05:45)", "body": "Hi Hello to whoever is running this, but what happened to topics 2-47?? Rob"}, {"response": 79, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 22, 2001 (14:30)", "body": "They're all there Rob, you must be looking at the setting on the web for recent topics or responses for the last day. Choose a different date range or choose all topics. They haven't dissappeared, really!"}, {"response": 80, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Aug 25, 2001 (16:45)", "body": "Rob!! Hi and welcome! *HUGS* of course go with that. For each new conference you enter try http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/travel/all/new and as you read them, the list should get shorter. If you always want to see all of the topics, take the \"new\" off the end of the URL. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 10, "subject": "hotels with fitness centers", "response_count": 3, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (22:23)", "body": "Austin's Q Club is within short walking distance of the Renaissance Hotel, which has it's own fitness center and pool. The Q is Austin's best facility hands down. It's the ultimate club. I should be working out there now!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, May 18, 1998 (17:57)", "body": "stayed at the Marriott in Savannah... decent fitness center. I prefer the ones with hot tubs and saunas!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, May 21, 1998 (22:55)", "body": "My kids really like the treadmill... travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 11, "subject": "Louisville, Kentucky", "response_count": 30, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr  2, 1997 (22:38)", "body": "Hmmm, I use to live there but it's been so long..."}, {"response": 2, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (16:05)", "body": "...did you like it or hate it?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (16:38)", "body": "Hmmm...all I know about the place is that it is the home of the Louisville Slugger - baseball bat of preference."}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (16:38)", "body": "William lived there - as a child. I wonder if he remembers anything..."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (09:15)", "body": "I love them Louie Villians. Great folks. I had fun there. I worked as a city planner and a photographer for the Louisville Courier Journal and Times (which won quite a few Pulitzer Prizes for it's photography). My most memorable photo essay was called the \"Face of Central America\" and I did studies of people and their scenes all over Louisville. I lived on St. James Court and loved the Shakespeare in the Park series in the summers. I had a hot love affair there."}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (09:38)", "body": "YOU a hot love affair?? \ufffdgasp\ufffd Terry! I always thought you were a virgin!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (13:23)", "body": "The truth comes out! Gee, I should have kept that rumor alive."}, {"response": 8, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (13:43)", "body": "Ree, do you think he was trying to hide that fact by posting pictures of himself with adoring women hanging onto him and looking dreamily up into his eyes? If he succeeded in keeping all of those too-numerous-to-comprehend ladies happy while still remaining a virgin, he was doing something I know nothing about. (pulling out my blanket and sandwiches as I prepare to listen to the explanation)"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (13:48)", "body": "So, you think I'll tell?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (13:59)", "body": "I was hoping...! But, I am far too curious for my own good sometimes, but I am an eager listener and a quick learner...*smile*"}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct 27, 1999 (02:55)", "body": "No, I thought all those women on the photos were his sisters..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 27, 1999 (16:12)", "body": "...such a loving family....! Oh, I think they were more interesting than that, but we might have to ambush the man in person some time and ply him with drink to find out the true story. He will not surrender easily, I think..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Oct 27, 1999 (21:40)", "body": "Loo-vul or Loo-uh-vul. You hear someone say Looie-ville, they're not from there. Home of Hillerich & Bradsbury, as well as the real Louisville Slugger, Muhammad Ali! Home of the Louisville (University) Cardinals and the Louisville Redbirds (St. Louis Cards' triple-A affiliate). Also home of the late Dr. Martin Doudna (B.A. Oberlin, M.A. Louisville, PhD. Michigan in American Studies), my favorite professor from my days at the University of Hawaii at Hilo. He had a sprightly walk, a perpetual twinkle i his eye and smile on his face, but when he read \"Moby Dick,\" aloud in his booming basso profundo, you expected the great white whale and plenty of seawater to crash through the concrete walls of the classroom! He made literature come alive."}, {"response": 14, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Oct 27, 1999 (21:43)", "body": "\"Eight more miles and Louisville will come into my view. Eight more miles on this old road, I'll nevermore be blue. I knew someday that I'd come back; I knew it from the start. Eight more miles to Louisville, the hometown of my heart,\" --the late \"Grandpa\" Jones (of \"Hee Haw\" fame)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (01:34)", "body": "Martin was the best - always most cordial to me and interesting, as well. He was one of the good old originals who came just about the time we did, I believe.. *smiling at the memory* (He was not one of those who pinioned me into the corner!)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (05:21)", "body": "Nobody is perfect, after all...\ufffdgrin\ufffd"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (09:02)", "body": "The St. James Court art fair was the highlight of the year, since I lived on St. James Court, I had this incredible high ceiling double front door house with a porch and magnolia trees facing the famous fountain. I'd open my doors wide and turn my living room in to a theater. My company was called Transparency Fair and I did multimedia slide shows of people and places with all kinds of cool music. Two slide projects were running and projecting to screens side by side. That's where I met Barry Bingham, publisher of the Courier Journal and Times, and got my Central America assignment. And yes, please tie me down and ply it out of me, that could be exciting."}, {"response": 18, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (11:58)", "body": "Consider yourself tied down and plied. Out with it, Terry. Sounds interestiing to me."}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (12:52)", "body": "Ho hey, hey ho! It's okay, really - we'll give you guys some privacy ... !"}, {"response": 20, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (13:29)", "body": "(offering my services to sit on him while you tie and ply) - I'm hanging around - sounds most interesting. (Pulling up my tuffet so I can be comfortable and hunting for the picnic basket...!) Terry, we await your adventures."}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (10:38)", "body": "Oh my God, I can't watch this! Terry, just remember, I'M your best girl!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (13:12)", "body": "We are not going to replace you in his heart...I am just helping John as an old friend. *grin* ...and in the interest of curiosity..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (01:15)", "body": "I daresay not ... It's a tight squeeze in here as it IS with all his sisters around! HA-HA!!! Am I going too far?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (15:07)", "body": "Vous? Nevah! (I think he is enjoying this more than he'd be willing to admit, my dear Ree...enjoy!) ...sisters? You just may need a machete to get through the mob! *lol*"}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Oct 31, 1999 (10:24)", "body": "You are my best girl, ree. I'll settle down."}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Oct 31, 1999 (12:37)", "body": "ha-ha, Yeah right! I think that would look boring on you. You're far too cool and edgy for that nonsense."}, {"response": 27, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Oct 31, 1999 (12:54)", "body": "What would look boring?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov  1, 1999 (13:10)", "body": "Settling down. That would look boring on you. Today I had a mail from Jim saying he went to Halloween as a moron! ha-ha!!!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Nov 24, 1999 (14:50)", "body": "me too... (got the email... didn't dress that way myself...)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 24, 1999 (16:14)", "body": "I wish he would come back so I could get to converse with one of the most original and sharp minds on Spring. I did not get email from him because he does not know me from the proverbial hill of beans. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 12, "subject": "Mississippi", "response_count": 3, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "mqube", "date": "Thu, May 29, 1997 (02:23)", "body": "Casino, golf course, Jeff Davis Mansion & Confederate cemetary, casino, dirty beach, golf course, cruise to Ship Island, Ft. Mass., sport fishing, casino, golf course, golf course, casino, casino, drive to Alabama to go to the dog track or a good beach at Gulf Shores, drive back, casino, casino, golf course, drive to New Orleans to see French Quarter, Riverwalk where the tanker crashed into the dock, the Aquarium, ride on streetcar, see the \"Streetcar Named Desire\", drink a Hurricane, go to Cafe Dumonde f r bignets & coffee w/chicory, visit the Audobon zoo, avoid getting mugged or killed in the famous above ground cemetaries, drive back, casino, casino, when your broke go home....."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 29, 1997 (07:46)", "body": "Someone where I work just had a grand time down in ol' Miss."}, {"response": 3, "author": "mqube", "date": "Fri, May 30, 1997 (02:32)", "body": "My parents, who still live there and don't have to pay any property taxes anymore certainly appreciate all those tourist $$. If you can't think of anywhere else to go go to the Mississippi Golden Gulf Coast, worlds longest man-made beach. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 13, "subject": "Norway", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Apr  6, 1997 (15:33)", "body": "There will be elections in Norway after summer and the parties are talking about what they will do for the the elderly population and the sick people, according to r henning, my source on NetMeeting today."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Apr  6, 1997 (15:37)", "body": "If you'd like the url for this topic, it is: http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/public/read/travel/13 That will get folks here as read only."}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Jan  3, 1998 (23:27)", "body": "Terry, have you ever read Sigrid Undset's \"Kristin Lavransdatter\"? That is my all-time favorite book, and it really turned me on to Norway. Someday I'll make it there...."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan  4, 1998 (09:58)", "body": "No, but I'll put it on my list, autumn."}, {"response": 5, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan  9, 1998 (18:18)", "body": "friend of ours went to Norway for several weeks this summer. He plans to go back for good eventually... loved it!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan  9, 1998 (22:05)", "body": "I'd love to go someday! Being half Norwegian and all."}, {"response": 7, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Feb 17, 1998 (22:00)", "body": "We're still planning the \"big trip\"--spending time in the Scottish Highlands, then taking the ferry from, say, Inverness to Bergen. The girls need to be a little older, though. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 14, "subject": "European hitchhiking adventures", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 10, 1997 (09:02)", "body": "Great, welcome Howell."}, {"response": 2, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (13:30)", "body": "An important thing about hitchhiking Europe is knowing laws of the country you pass through. E.g. is hitchhiking allowed? Where isn't it allowed? What's the legal situation on sleeping out somewhere? What are allowed to carry around, what not? What kind of places are better to gain you a good lift? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 15, "subject": "AUGUST TO MARCH BEST TIME TO SEE INDIA.", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 27, 1997 (21:48)", "body": "Well, I have a big house in Austin and you're welcome to visit if you come to the States, glad you're joining the Spring disucssions. What is life like where you are. PS. Can you switch to upper and lower case please?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Sep 26, 1997 (12:23)", "body": "How is India? I read the National Geographic about India's first 50 years of democracy. Sounds like the country is still suffering from quite a few problems, overpopulation being first and foremost. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 16, "subject": "dive travel with Divine Spark", "response_count": 15, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct  6, 1997 (08:55)", "body": "I had a great time visiting with these folks at the Whole Life Expo in Austin this weekend. Their booth was the highlight of the expo. Their collage of color pictures was amazing, there were strikingly gorgeous pictures of the ocean which would qualify as fine art in any gallery. They have tours, classes in scuba diving and cooking, production services, and a budding website. They've been to some fabulous dive spots all over the world, such as the Cayman Islands and Honduras."}, {"response": 2, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct  6, 1997 (12:10)", "body": "I've snorkled... never dived. Grand Caymans are BEAUTIFUL regardless of what apparatuses you have on!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct  6, 1997 (14:30)", "body": "When did you go there, Stace'? What were your experiences. I snorkled with the Sting Rays there and tried to coax an eel out from under a rock. We went to the touristy \"sting ray city\" but it was really fun? I was down there for ten days and stayed at the Hyatt, courtesy of NEC Corp after winning their sales contest. The meals were fabulous and the NEC folks videotaped our whole trip, so I still ahve a memento."}, {"response": 4, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct  9, 1997 (12:33)", "body": "I went in 1993. I was on a Royal Carribean cruise and we had Cozumel, Grand cayman, Ocho Rios and Coco Cay, Bahamas as ports of call. I learned to dive with my snorkel on (and blow out the water when I came up) I got in trouble by a local scuba diver for swimming after the wrong fish -- a beautiful silvery one. A barracudda. My bad. I played with crabs and little fish around the reefs. I had really good magaritas (on the rocks of course) and ate LOTS of great food. I'd love to go on another trip like that but the cost factor is insurmontable at this point. When I went, I went as a nanny for two little boys. So it was free and I had the ports to myself. A real blast."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct  9, 1997 (19:40)", "body": "One night, we had a dinner prepared by Chef Tel, not bad! The food at all the restaurants was great. One day, I'll to go back and capture some stills from the video I took there and put 'em up somewhere on the site. Do you have any pictures of your trip for http://www.spring.com/~stacey ?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (09:57)", "body": "I'd have to search for them. Those boxes still haven't been unpacked."}, {"response": 7, "author": "rubi", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 1997 (13:49)", "body": "Hey, sounds like you guys had a good time. I am really into SCUBA. My parents live in Puerto Rico and I visit different locations in the Carribean from time to time. The best diving that I have seen was in Bonaire. The Cayman was ok, people that have tried snorkleing really need to take the next step and dive right in (pardon the pun) to the sport. I would like to hear more from people that have experience in this area."}, {"response": 8, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (12:24)", "body": "Easy on those snorkelers... I'd love to \"dive right in\" but as a child I perforated both my eardrums and went through an extensive amount of surgery to have them fixed. As you probably know, the way we hear is when the typannic membrane or eardrum vibrates, so a popped drum is no so great for the hearing. My doctors told me then and still maintain, that diving to great depths, putting external pressure on the drums, could rupture them again. I've asked the obvious, \"why don't they pop out the other way in an airplane?\" but the ultimate response was, \"just don 't chance it unless you're willing to have more surgery.\" Ergo... I enjoy snorkeling!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (12:57)", "body": "Wow, then stay near the surface!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "rubi", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (18:15)", "body": "Whoa there stacey, EASY TIGER It was only a suggestion. Your entitled to your own hobbies. Thanks for the anatomy lesson, that was really helpful.I'll try not to be so flipant with my suggestions in the future. Hope you don't have any freak typannic membrane ruany time soon. (:"}, {"response": 11, "author": "spaman", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (00:50)", "body": "anybody dived xcalak, quinta roo in mexico? it is near virgin (now THAT'S something these days)."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (19:21)", "body": "I'll see if I can get the Divine Spark folks to answer this."}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Feb 12, 1998 (22:49)", "body": "Interesting dive travel link: http://www.inmax.com/thorfinn/ To quote from the site: Welcome Aboard the S.S. THORFINN!- the largest live-aboard dive vessel in the Pacific, and one of the largest live-aboards in the world. This ship is maintained at the front of the line in liveaboard luxury, space and service. The S.S. Thorfinn is superbly equipped to serve as the base for your dive adventures in Truk Lagoon, or on a Pan Micronesia \"Voyage of Discovery\". At 170 feet in length, and a displacement of 1,100 tons, you are assured of stable, deep comfort whether diving in Truk or cruising the fantastically beautiful outer islands of Micronesia. The big ship atmosphere is enjoyed by just 22 guests in uncrowded luxury. The spacious main lounge, located aft on \"C\" deck, received many features during refit, including a large ocean aquarium, big state-of-the-art multi-media system TV and VCR, a much enlarged and updated video library, Hi-8mm playback unit, CD video and audio player all connected to a Dolby surround sound 6 speaker system. Indirect lighting, big full view windows and new decor all add to the ambience of this cozy guest area. The S.S. THORFINN offers 11 spacious air-conditioned staterooms with a total capacity for 22 guests. All of the staterooms feature full vanities, in-room televisions, video cassette players, indirect lighting, full- length closets, new carpeting and modern decor. Eight staterooms located on \"D\" & \"E\" decks have double or queen-size beds with an additional berth alongside. Private facilities with shower and toilet are fitted in each of these rooms. Three additional rooms on \"C\" deck are bright and spacious with adjacent semi-private showers and toilets. A large open-air spa deck is located aft of the main guest lounge on \"C\" deck. Our custom designed hot tub comfortably seats 10 divers, affording them an opportunity to unwind and relax after a dive and enjoy cool drinks under tropical skies. Ample seating space surrounds the spa for pleasant interfacing with other guests. Two new camera tables, located directly behind the main salon and adjacent to the spa area, provide convenient access for camera enthusiasts under a protected over deck extension. These tables are served by battery charging points in both 110 & 220 voltages, and have air guns for camera and housing service. Top of the line underwater video cameras and housings are available for rent. Daily L-6 film processing is complimented with a lounge light table and slide mounting facility. Your photographic efforts can be viewed every evening using our Kodak slide projector with its over-head screen, or play back your video tapes on the big screen TV. Up on \"B\" deck the sun seekers will find out chaise lounges for their enjoyment while improving their tans. An overhead canopy provides a shaded area for those who just care to relax, read a book or sit and enjoy the view of our tropic paradise. A large separate dining lounge on \"D\" deck provides seating for all guests simultaneously in three connected areas. Two chefs, working from a separate gallery, are employed in creating a variety of meals and snacks with attention paid to all special dietary needs. Meals are served restaurant style by our friendly dining room staff. Under the experienced leadership of Captain Lance Higgs and his Trukese wife Narinta, our experienced Micronesian crew of 21 is dedicated to serve your every need. Our crew to guest ratio of 1:1 is the highest in the Pacific, assuring you a truly pampered visit."}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Feb 12, 1998 (22:51)", "body": ""}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Feb 12, 1998 (23:30)", "body": "Another very interesting link: http://pac-aggressor.com/ travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 17, "subject": "India", "response_count": 6, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 19, 1998 (08:26)", "body": "Traveling to India Frances Loden (frako@well.com) Delhi to Jaipur via airports: I'd been warned about trying to get into town from Delhi Airport--there is a taxi horror story somewhere in this conference--but this time it would be unnecessary since we were only changing planes at Delhi. I'd also been warned that most traffic in and out of Delhi Airport occurred in the middle of the night for some reason--that the airport slept during daylight hours and became a madhouse around midnight. This was true in our case. After our long flight from Narita, with a multihour layover in Bangkok, we arrived to a midnight cacophony of horns honking at Delhi Arrivals and mobs of taxi touts and hotel people waving identifying signs. There was a long, cold 20-minute bus ride to the domestic terminal around 1 am (the shuttle left from the international terminal only once an hour, directly across the street from where Arrivals spill outside). I was shocked at how cold it was in late December, but rationalized that it was in the middle of the night. The Delhi international terminal was fairly funky but the domestic terminal much worse. It was horribly uncomfortable and drafty, with all services shut down. The \"retiring rooms,\" or overnight accommodations found at airports and train stations, had filled up hours ago. Along with dozens of other, mostly Indian passengers, we tried to sleep in plastic chairs until 5:45 am. Unlike us, the Indians were prepared for such waits with cozy blankets that they draped over every family member. Everybody in Rajasthan, at least, seemed to have his or her own blanket or shawl. It was comforting to see whole families cuddled together or folded into every conceivable position, sometimes upside down, over creaky plastic chairs. Around 6 am, the Nescafe booth opened to sell oversweetened mud-colored coffee, which was nonetheless welcome to warm our bones. Indian airports have a practice I've seen nowhere else. After checkin and security check and sitting at the gate, you must walk out to the tarmac--one passenger at a time--to point to your checked bags, at which point they are loaded onto the cart for the aircraft. This makes the preboarding procedure drag, since few passengers know what the officials mean and neglect to do it until the last minute. We made half a dozen domestic flights, and they were all delayed by from one to four hours as a matter of routine. Usually no explanation was given for the delay. Indian (Alliance) Airlines planes are extremely old and have funky interiors, as if someone had smeared grease all over the tacky paisley-print walls. Most of our flights within Rajasthan were no longer than 45 minutes, so the flight attendants were harried even if all they served the passengers were literally bread and water. The bread consisted of anemic white bread with a thin layer of cream cheese, a greasy vegetable samosa, or pakora. Many of the seats were broken, and some overhead bins didn't latch properly. An extreme contrast to the Thai International plane we had left a few hours before."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 24, 1998 (15:00)", "body": "Frances Loden: Jaipur: After a 20-minute taxi ride (variously costing us 200, 220 and 250 rupees [at 38 rupees to the US dollar, from $5 to $7]), we arrived at the Mansingh Hotel around 7 am and watched the sunrise from our 5th-floor room. It was actually the 6th floor, but Indians follow the British practice of calling the 2nd floor the 1st floor. We sank gratefully into bed, but we didn't count on the fact that, precisely at 7 am every morning, a wailing voice and harmonium (a kind of boxy accordion that sits on the floor as you open and close one wall of it) would start up from a nearby religious school and continue blaring through the PA system for about an hour. But we were too excited to sleep for more than a couple of hours. The view out our window was engrossing enough: rooftop life flourished! As the day began, we saw families lounging on blankets, young men taking sluice baths from buckets in their shorts, a woman combing out her long wet hair, a man banging away on an old typewriter, an old woman watering plants, a dachshund following his bearded old man around, chillies drying in the sun, construction workers taking a break on their precarious-looking bamboo scaffold, a young guy with two textbooks open in front of him, a boy flying a kite, a girl peering through an open window with her leg hitched up on the sill, a woman hanging laundry. Rooftop life is an odd blend of private and public. Most of the buildings presumably held many families, but I don't know how many of them had access to the rooftop. Nobody from the ground can see you, but whoever is higher than you--like us hotel dwellers--can. Throughout Rajasthan, as I guess in most places, there seemed to be a sensitivity to the status accorded people who were higher than others. A wealthy man built his house 2 stories higher than that of the Jaisalmer maharaja, just to insult him. The maharaja wouldn't stand for it and had the extra floors torn down. The Mansingh Hotel is a 5-star, one of only two we stay in on our trip. (We make a practice of staying in nice hotels on entry and exit, just to ease transitions.) It's pleasant but nondescript, with a very good restaurant, tolerable coffee shop, exercise facilities and a pool. There's a small arcade selling overpriced souvenirs, books, and saris. Just standing around in the lobby, I was whisked into the sari shop and found myself wrapped in lengths of luscious green silk by a fast-talking man who reassured me that a woman could do anything easily, especially work, in a sari. The bookstore sold camera film but had no camera batteries or 8mm videotape. You have to go to a film processing specialty shop for those things. On the landing wall of every floor of the service stairs, hotel workers were reminded in big red letters that \"Guest Is Always Right.\" Jaipur Puppet Racket: Five minutes out of the hotel, on the road an intense young man strikes up a conversation with us, and before we know it we're in his shanty/tent to look at his puppets. He says he's a low-caste gypsy named Bangali--someone of his caste has only one name--and can't afford to live in a building, but someday he will buy the building next door. He clears a charpoy, or bed made of rag strips pulled taut across the frame, and orders us to sit down on the clean quilt spread there. He shows us photo albums full of clippings and photos of his performances in Scandinavia, his brother's performances in Japan, etc. I'm a little more interested in the kitchen made of clay and what his brother's wife, mother- in-law and children are doing over in the corner--but they're extremely shy. Soon they are hustled out and a cloth is draped across the interior for the puppet backdrop. I watch fascinated as Brother wraps a vivid turban around his head. The average Rajasthan turban is a colorful oblong scarf about 9 meters long, and it's fun to watch a man wind it rapidly around his head so that he can remove it like a hat. He shows us a naked puppet with visible ribs--a \"drug addict\" for the educational performances. I ask him if they do stories promoting condom use, and he says some stories are \"too difficult\" for the audience to understand. The performance begins with a sexy female dancer whose shimmy is controlled by strings. Every movement is signaled by a wheezing sound made by some whistle in the puppeteer's mouth. Brother plays a harmonium and sings. Another guy plays percussion. Attracted by the music, scruffy little kids wander into the tent and Brother yells at them to sit down and not block our view. I give them some Japanese candy which I fail to tell them is gum, and worry later that they've digested it. It seems wrong to see these little kids, ragged and dirty and looking like a \"Save the Children\" poster, munching on this awful candy I've given them. Often the puppets' heads fly up a foot in the air and come back down. One puppet is astride a horse, both of his arms in flames. Somehow the manipulator gets the puppet to fly under his"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 25, 1998 (22:09)", "body": "And more from the same source: Jaipur Movie Palaces: To be honest, I was almost more interested in Indian movie palaces than maharajas' palaces. After all, it's a novelty for an American to see a country that still has only 1000-plus-seat houses. The Premprakash Theatre, \"Rajasthan's First 70mm Theatre,\" seemed to have come down in status. Now it was showing the \"Lady Fighter,\" or Caucasian martial arts star Cynthia Rothrock, in \"Undefeatable,\" rated \"A\"--Only For Adults. Tickets were available for Noble Circle (25R or 66 cents--901 seats), Dress Circle (20R--334 seats), Upper Circle (16R--77 seats), and Lower Circle (14R--38 seats), with separate ladies' and gents' ticket windows. I was pissed not to make it into the Raj Mandir, \"Show Place of the Nation,\" a most beautiful pink restored movie theatre where a current hit, \"Dil To Pagal Hai\" starring the great favorite Shah Rukh Khan, was playing. Diamond Box (40R or $1.16--40 seats), Emerald Noble Circle (30R--909 seats), Ruby Dress Circle (26R--201 seats), and Pearl Lower Circle (17R--36 seats)--all seats were booked for the rest of the evening. I really wanted to see the latest hit of this No. 1 box office star of India--posters of him in a black leather jacket sold next to posters of Krishna and Radha running through the wilderness. We were taken to a much grubbier theatre by auto rickshaw. The ticket taker gave each of us Halls cough drops as we entered the vast auditorium, and the most expensive balcony seats were as tattered and broken-down as the seats on the main floor. The movie was \"Shapath,\" with a cast of about 50 men, all unshaven and pointing and punching at each other. I only recognized the star, Jackie Schroff, and that was easy because he was tallest and the only guy who was nice to his mother. After two hours and no hint of the movie's ending we had had enough, but we couldn't get out of the theatre. We had to ask the manager to unlock the door and cage and let us out. Amber Fort: Throughout Asia, we are very careful not to drink tap water and brush our teeth with bottled water. Luckily I hadn't experienced significant diarrhea for 6 years. But the next morning at 4:30 the deadly traveler's syndrome hit me, and by 7 am I was completely wrung out, familiar with every crack in the tile, and questioning my ability to be driven even the 20 minutes it took to get to Amber Fort. But with a dose of loperamide hydrochloride we made it there, although I spent most of the day at the fort finding sunny, comfortable places to sit and laughing weakly at the antics of the Hanuman langurs, lanky black-faced primates with incredibly long tails, who scrambled along the parapets and played leapfrog with each other. Tourists were being given elephant rides in and out of the fort. It looked too much like a slow Disneyland ride, and I wasn't interested. I was impressed by the mazelike structure and all the different levels of a 12th-century fortification. In retrospect, I think it was one of the more magnificent ones we had seen. It was too crowded, though, and I got tired of backing up on narrow staircases for oncoming traffic or dodging other people's viewfinders. Whenever I could escape the crowd I'd sit and look at the fancy, intricate stone carvings of flowers and butterflies and marvel that they were still here after all these centuries. Always at the entrance of any fort or temple complex, several men will offer to be your guide for a price (usually not agreed upon beforehand, but a tip ranging from 100 to 200 rupees depending on the number of hours and special errands). Even if they sport official-looking badges, their English language ability and level of knowledge are very hit-and-miss. Most of the time we refused guides because of this and because we don't like repeatedly having to say \"Really!\" or even \"Hmmmm\" when we could enjoy all this grandeur in silence."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 22, 1998 (08:16)", "body": "India The Indian Tourism Development Corporation has launched a new train package tour traveling to Buddhist pilgrimage sites in Northern India. The six day tour departs from Calcutta and travels to Varanasi, Rajgir and Gaya before returning to Calcutta. The cost per person (including food and accommodation) is US$379 for the ordinary traveler to US$799 for the luxury traveler. Tickets can be obtained from the India Tourism Development Corporation in New Delhi."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 15, 1999 (09:27)", "body": "(whiteherne) Tue Jan 5 '99 (12:24) 164 lines Here are some of my impressions of life in Bangalore: Bangalore was once known as the Garden City of India, although it does not feel like one these days. Unrestricted growth, although in \ufffdclean\ufffd industries, has led to a large increase in the number of motorized vehicles, which include cycles, autorickshaws, cars, scooters, motorcycles, lorries and buses. The odd bullock cart can be seen now and then, as also hand carts bearing miscellaneous cargo. (The autorickshaw is a three-wheeled, motorized vehicle. It is sheltered but open on the sides. It can carry two or three passengers, and has become the cab of the middle-class, regular taxis having vanished almost entirely from the streets here.) Unleaded petrol (gasoline) is still not a requirement in most parts of India, and the higher powered vehicles use diesel fuel here, resulting in black, noxious emissions. The roads haven\ufffdt been upgraded to deal with all this new traffic and the main city arteries are always snarled. Frustrated traffic constables in their ancient uniforms of wide khaki shorts (and now wearing gas masks) cut a sorry but comical figure on the islands of five and six-point intersections from where they try to cope with the mess. For the Western visitor, the traffic can seem utterly chaotic and maddening. This is true for me as well, having lived away from India. There is a sort of law of the jungle at work here: the larger the vehicle, the more aggressive the driving. (A new Indian SUV with the appropriate name of \ufffdTATA SUMO\ufffd has recently made its appearance. Why someone who lives in the city and drives in crowded, slow-moving streets needs a gas-guzzling, polluting, road-hogging SUMO beats the hell out of me.) In general traffic moves slowly, and although drivers engage in a game of brinkmanship to try to get ahead, there aren\ufffdt as many accidents as one would expect. Lane markers are strictly academic, and whenever traffic stops at a light, the two-wheelers seem to fill any available spaces around cars so as to position themselves favourably for the impending green light. Since my parents live here, I stay with them. Indian hotels, with the exception of the best ones, which are outrageously expensive for Indians, aren\ufffdt as good as their American counterparts. The equivalent of a clean, comfortable, no-frills \ufffdMotel 6\ufffd that is much cheaper than a luxury hotel is generally not to be found. One must either fork out the money for a Hyatt or equivalent, or be terribly disappointed with the results. Which is why most middle-class Indians, when they travel on their own nickel to another city end up staying with relations, friends, or even friends of friends. The way it generally works is that you make your house available to a wide circle of people, and the gesture will be reciprocated when you are on the road. But remember to carry your own soap and towel! My parents have been retired for some time and with the attendant infirmities of age, getting through each day can be an adventure. There are part-time helpers at home for cooking, cleaning and gardening. In India help is very specialised, and one person will not do another\ufffds job. There is a maid who washes the pots and pans, sweeps and mops the floors daily (a necessity here), and washes the clothes by hand (my mother refuses to buy a washer or let me buy one for her and I have given up trying to convince her). The other is a part-time cook who has now been with her for four years. She is known as the \"Cook Maami\". They speak to each other in Tamil. Each one calls the other \"Maami\". This is a respectful mode of address to an older lady -- the universal aunt, if you will -- and their conversation to each other is always in the exceedingly respectful second person formal, whether they are joking, arguing or discussing some culinary fine points. On days that the maid or the cook go AWOL, chaos ensues, as my parents scramble to make do. It is a very interesting relationship to observe. The \"Cook Maami\" is extremely talented and makes the most delectable South Indian dishes I have eaten, even tastier than my mother 's cooking, and my mother is a published author of three cookbooks and a lifelong aficionado of Indian \ufffdhaute cuisine\ufffd. But the cook is very shrewd and knows this, for she endeavours (in my mother\ufffds opinion) to take advantage of the situation by extracting various concessions, knowing that it will be difficult for my mother to find a replacement. Domestic help is harder to come by these days in India, and although it is frustrating for my folks, from an economist's point of view, it illustrates progress. I watch a little television to get a feel for contemporary Indian culture. Cable TV has found its way here, and there is something called Star Plus that beams CNN, BBC and other international programmes from Hongkong. I notice a new phenomenon. People speak in something called \ufffdHinglish\ufffd here, a mixture of Hindi and English. Hindi and English"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug  4, 1999 (20:33)", "body": "I found this wonderful tour of India purely by an accidental click: http://www.gurlpages.com/obsess/xtiesue/ travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 18, "subject": "Micronesia and the Pacific region", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Feb 12, 1998 (22:26)", "body": "For a great place on the web to start learning about Micronesia: http://www.escapeartist.com/micronesia/micronesia.htm I added this discussion group to their list of links, pending their approval."}, {"response": 2, "author": "asigrah", "date": "Fri, Feb 13, 1998 (02:25)", "body": "Can learn more about the Pacific, particularly Micronesia (Federated States of Micronesia) by going to the webpage of the only ISP in that region. Webpage: http://www.fm Feel free to post more queries regarding the topic. I will check in every so often. Good luck, Aaron Sigrah"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 13, 1998 (08:45)", "body": "That's a great url to get! You're lucky! I'll visit your site."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 13, 1998 (08:54)", "body": "Another real good url is the following: http://www.fiji-online.com.fj/ It's the \"Official Fiji Islands home page\". It's the source for the above quote on general Fiji information. More of what they say on this site: Climate Fiji's climate is maritime tropical. Expect daytime temperatures ranging from 28 to 32 degrees Centigrade in the cooler season from May to November, and warmer weather with temperatures a few degrees higher from December through April. The warmer weather also brings more rainfall, which usually takes the form of passing tropical showers. Check out today's weather update!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Population The population of Fiji is currently around 780,000 in a ratio of about 50 percent native Fijian to 46% of Indian origin. The balance are Chinese, Europeans, and other Pacific Islanders. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Language English is the official language of Fiji and is taught in the schools. Widely spoken are native Fijian dialects and Hindustani. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Time Spanning the 180th meridian, which marks the course of the international dateline, Fiji is exactly 12 hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time, 16 hours ahead of New York, 3 hours ahead of Tokyo, and two hours ahead of Sydney. What time is it in Fiji right now (question for the next person posting from Fiji)? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 19, "subject": "Fiji", "response_count": 3, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 13, 1998 (00:27)", "body": "From the above mentioned website: The Fiji group is comprised of more than 330 islands, ranging from jagged mountain tops jutting up from the ocean, to coral atolls which rise only a few metres above sea level. Few of the islands are inhabited, the rest being true 'desert' islands. Fiji's two largest islands, Viti Levu and Vanua Levu, make up more than 85% of the nation's land. The third largest island of the group is Taveuni, a rugged ridge of mountains rising from the sea, having their steep slopes carpeted with rain forests, giving way to coconut plantations on the north coast. Four smaller groups of islands make up the rest of the country. The Mamanuca's are off the west coast of Viti Levu, while to the north west is the Yasawa chain. The Lomaiviti islands are in the Koro Sea between Vanua Levu and Viti Levu, while to the east and south-east is the Lau group. The island of Rotuma stands alone, about three hundred miles north of Nadi, inhabited mainly by Polynesians."}, {"response": 2, "author": "asigrah", "date": "Fri, Feb 13, 1998 (02:39)", "body": "The people of Rotuma are mainly of Polynesian descent (of Tonga and Samoa); in Kosrae, Micronesia, there is a huge extended family of Rotuman descent who, according to oral history (est. 1830s) , got to Kosrae as a result of a war between Rotumans and Kosraeans. The cause of war was unknown; only two Rotumans survived the battle and were captured; later on married women of royal descent. The point of sharing this story is that eventhough these islands are spread apart thousands of miles, history, cul ure, and traditions still link them together. enjoy"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 13, 1998 (08:47)", "body": "Thanks Aaron, do you live in Fiji? Whereabouts (if you do)? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 2, "subject": "springs and hot springs of the world", "response_count": 12, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "hotsprings", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (23:20)", "body": "Hi--I write books on hot springs (Hot Springs and Hot Pools of the Southwest, and Hot Springs..Northwest. I am always interested in people's response to the pools they visit adn their evaluation of the springs. Of course, I just love to find out about anything new that I don't currently know about. I'd love to hear from you or at my email address hsprings@ix.netcom.com"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Feb 16, 1997 (23:34)", "body": "Welcome to our new topic. What can we do to get the word out about our 'springs of the world' website project? What is the address of your website?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 27, 1997 (10:12)", "body": "wish I were near a hot spring now. The snow is beautiful, it's the cold I stuggle with."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct 27, 1997 (10:48)", "body": "What an image, steaming hot springs water rising from the snow covered terrain."}, {"response": 5, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 27, 1997 (12:17)", "body": "It's reality in some of these parts."}, {"response": 6, "author": "spaman", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (00:58)", "body": "hey, i also wrote a book on hot springs, \"spas & hot springs of mexico.\" am always eager to share my knowledge with others and to learn about new ones. i cover everything from the chi-chi spas to hot holes in the ground. there are supposed to be 700 hot springs in mexico and even i haven't visited them all. let me know what you have found. www.mexicomike.com."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec  9, 1997 (22:37)", "body": "Can you give us your top ten list?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "spaman", "date": "Fri, Dec 12, 1997 (00:47)", "body": "my own top ten depends on whether one is looking for world-class spas or mineral waters. in spas 1. punta serena, tenacatita 2. cocoyoc, cuatla 3. hosteria las quintas, cuernavaca. 4 mision del sol, cuernavaca. 5. paradise village, pto vallarta. 6. ixtapan de la sal (only for the waters, the spa is so-so)7. rancho la puerta, tecate. 8. rio caliente the rest are roughtly equal. mineral waters: 1. la caldera, abasolo, 2. caracha, michocacan, 3. buenaventura, san juan cosala, 4. taboada, san migiel de allende 5, gogorron, san luis potosi, 6. taninul, cd. valles, 7, then it gets difficult to categorize."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec 13, 1997 (19:20)", "body": "Tell us about punta serena!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (21:03)", "body": "Hot Springs Jim Powell mailto://chimpowl@well.com just returned from a 10-day roadtrip to see dylan's shows at the el rey in LA last week. we managed to hit 3 hotsprings in the course of our travels, failing to find or access several others. we tried to stop at esalen on our way down the coast but that week it was closed, and failed to find several obscure springs in the Santa Ynez mts, despite assiduous poking around. this past sunday, though, on the way to Joshua Tree we stopped at a nameless spring in the mts above Palm Springs. after crossing 75 feet of boulder field you intersect the remains of a driveway & follow it about a third of a mile to the foundations of ruined rural estate. down a side alley from here is the pool, about 7 X 12 feet, lined with cemented stone, 4 feet at its deepest, i thought low 90s, by friends said high 90s, surrounded by huge old palms with a view of the lights of Palm Springs in the distance below. nameless & known only to locals, it's clean & well kept up. a half dozen new homemade candles were waiting for us on the deck around the pool's rim. next morning in Joshua Tree we woke to snow on the cacti. coming back up the coast we stopped at las cruces, south of san luis. it's only a half mile hike off the road (300 feet of elevation gain) so we expected the worst, but it was quite clean, and unoccuppied on a tuesday afternoon in december. set at the crotch of converging precipitous drainages, surrounded by huge sycamores & live oaks, willow- and palm- shaded, it is a charming spot. there are two pools, clean enough, shallowish, tepid rather than hot. but the surroundings are magic, defintely. i imagine we were lucky to have it to ourselves. it's a state park, costs $2 to park. last night (this morning, actually, at 1:00 AM) we were among the dozen assembled at esalen's driveway. stone pools at cliff edge overhanging the infinite pacific, delectable water too hot to soak unmixed, the moonless starry firmament outspread across the infinite night, boy orion & his dog chasing the kite of the pleades west toward san francisco -- multo fantastico! earlier, an hour after sunset, we pulled out at an overlook & got out to gaze at venus, mars & jupiter, continuing their dance in the west, dazzled & amazed by the wide pool of venus' reflected light in a pearly puddle on the waves."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec 29, 1997 (01:36)", "body": "More from Jim Powell: Left Berkeley at 3:15 friday afternoon heading up I 80 across the valley & over the sierra, then 100 miles northeast on Nevada highways and finally 18 miles out gravel road into the desert, pulled in to Trego hotspring six dizzy hours later. The spring has a steady flow of too hot water issuing into a 200 foot long ditch 8 foot wide. 20 feet from the source it's cool enough to soak. The water smells fairly sulfurous with a bizarre undertone or hint of creosote or something like. Nicen deep, funky muddy bottom (sorry I forgot my sandals or surfslippers; my companion showed more prudence). Besides a couple offroad vehical enthusiasts camped a quarter mile away we had the spring to ourselves, a gorgeous balmy desert night with the moon one night short of full. Climb in & soak for a while, climb out & stand in the cool desert night air, drying. Repeat as desired. The Western Pacific RR passes about 40 feet beyond the spring and provided a midnight diversion -- headlights visible for 20 minutes coming across the Black Rock Desert before the diesels were audible, then heard for 10 minutes more before the freight hurtled by. Another train provided a second wakeup call a half hour after the dawn's. The shaking earth makes an effective alarm clock. After a morning soak we drove into the thriving metropolis of Gerlach (\"pop. 400\" but I doubt it), fueled up & bought the local map of these remote & otherwise largely uncharted parts, and took off north on nevada-mostly- gravel-highway-34 up south willow creek canyon, rolling sage hills swelling spare & desolate above a charming stream & litoral -- 2 yearling fawns bathing at a shady bend -- creekbend cottonwood shade at a turnout campsite. Continued up 34 as far as the \"Petrified Forest\" ('petrified log' would be more like it), and actually a couple miles past it in search of some petroglyphs (which we failed to find, but did see 3 wild horses along the way, as remote as freedom in america in the late 20th century -- just shut up & take your pee-test), then backtracked a few miles to take the road (as it is jocularly termed) to High Rock Lake, meaning to loop back south along the west side of the Black Rock Range in pursuit of the elusive Double Hot Springs on the edge of the Black Rock Desert. In a rented 'mid-size' Dodge passenger car it took us about 90 minutes to drive the first 12.5 of the 15 miles to the lake before being balked by a bog at the foot of Little High Rock Canyon (where we were duly enrolled among the visitors of the Little High Rock Hilton, Prop. Prarie Dog. A 4-wheel drive might have been somewhat speedier but wouldn't have saved the day in the end: the water is several feet deep. On the way in we stopped nearly at random for an hour's hike, clambering up some volcanic rock formations to a local summit. Along the way we found an area perched above a string of volcanic outcrops, with a commanding view of a broad valley, where there are scattered many half-fashioned obsidian arrowheads, the flawed discards of an ancient workshop, as well as a few of the raw arrowheadsize gobbets of obsidian (are they called 'geodes'?) from which the arrowheads were made. Truly a haunted spot. Balked in our attempt to reach High Rock Lake and Double Hot Springs, we retraced our path to Gerlach, then set out for our evening's destination, the hotsprings at Pyramid Lake, circling around the north end of the lake on a 60 mile series of gravel roads, and entering the reservation from the north west. Along the way we encountered several antelope, the last a buck who stopped 20 feet away to check us out when we stopped to do the same -- graceful even while skittishly turning, stunningly beautiful appaloosa-like hide of shining white mottled with tawny gold, curly little antlers oddly suggesting shepherds crooks or stamens, speeding away. It was Saturday evening & there were maybe 30 people camped around the main hot springs (near the geyser) at Needle Rocks, Pyramid Lake. We could find no trace of the 2 other Hot Springs shown on the topo as further south and west. We tripped around for a while but decided we wanted more solitude & drove north along the lake shore 8 or 10 miles, made dinner & slept Awakened at dawn by huge fierce Paiute warrior mosquitoes, we hit the road early, driving south through Nevada, then into California behind Bridgeport, stopping at Travertine Hot Springs for a welcome if chlorinated soak in full view of the magnificent and sublime spectacle of the snowclad eastern escarpment of the Sierra, then over Sonora Pass, stopping to admire the hulking snowclad backsides of Three Chimneys, East Flange Rock & Granite Dome, those mighty mountain presences that have dominated our western horizon from the other side two summers now,and finally across the valley and back to Berkeley in time for dinner just as Picante was closing 10:00 pm Sunday. Ole!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Mar 11, 1999 (10:07)", "body": "Ah, thanks for posting this, Terry! It was so relaxing to read this. Anyway, where I'm from in Germany, we also have lots of springs and spas, just north of Frankfurt. It's just not as wild and free as one might wish, it's very medical or commercial. We have lots of rehabilitation things, cardiological as well as orthopedic/rheumatic, where people from all over the world come to get better. In some places, there are pools with hot or warm water, salty and mineral rich. You can swim there (against a fee), and there are also treatments. We have very nice mineral waters, some nearly red from the high amount of iron (that's why people from my county are known all over the world as being somewhat ironic...), some with lots of sulfuric compounds, some are extremely salty, some are just like - water! Anyway, most Americans (and British, too) have a hard time drinking some german mineral waters (not to be confused with table waters); even most bottled brands don't fare well with them, as they don't like water with a taste and/or carbonation. At least I haven't met any that liked real mineral water. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 20, "subject": "England", "response_count": 107, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, May 10, 1998 (14:56)", "body": "Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:14:01 +0100 (BST) =46rom: artactivism@gn.apc.org (john jordan) Subject: GLOBAL STREET PARTY Press release: from reclaim the Streets - for immediate use THOUSANDS TO GYRATE NOT G8 AT THE GLOBAL STREET PARTY - BIRMINGHAM MAY 16TH 1998! On May 16th, as leaders of the most industrialised nation-states in the world meet at the G8 summit in Birmingham before flying to Geneva,(1) tens of thousands of people will join the Global Street Party - simultaneously transforming the privatised, polluted streets of 33 cities in 21 countries (and counting!) into places of celebration and empowerment: a true global commons.(2) In Birmingham, after the partygoers rendezvous at Birmingham New Street Station 4pm on May 16th, roads will be blockaded, sound systems installed and lampposts, tarmac, railings and walls decorated in a mass occupation and transformation of an undisclosed location. Joining the call for Global Ecology not Global Economy(3) and offering an alternative =91transnational= =92 dream of a future where cooperation not competition is the common currency, the streets of Birmingham will be reclaimed with performance, art, music, dancing and games to laugh in the face of the G8 under banners reading =91G8 My Planet=92, =91Gyrate Not G8=92, and =91Reclaim the Streets=92 in over 50 = languages. And, as 100=92s of clowns help give the event a mischievous edge, it=92s anybody=92s guess which of the world leaders, their governments and corporat= e cronies will end the day with a pie in the face! The Global Street Party was called by the direct action group Reclaim The Streets (RTS)(4) . An RTS activist said: =91Cars, roads, pollution, surveillance and the like didn=92t just spring fr= om nowhere but are results of a political and economic system. That system is going global: the resistance, if it is to be effective, must also be global=85.The streets could be the forums for the direct control of >coordinated communities by the people who live in them. Instead we are told we need a =91globalisation=92 involving the further concentration of power = in elite=92s like the G8 and the W.T.O. This is so seriously unfunny we just ha= ve to laugh! =46or further details contact Reclaim the Streets on: Phone: 0171 281 4621 e-mail: web: http://www.hrc.wmin.ac.uk/campaigns/rts.html Notes for editors: 1. World leaders (and/or their emissaries) fly to Geneva on May 17th to commemorate the 50th anniversary of GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade), and to applaud the success of the World Trade Organisation (WTO) its younger, more rapacious ally. They may even chat about the latest takeover scheme: the Multilateral Agreement on Investments (MAI), designed to let global business override local environmental and social concerns in the interests of economic progress. 2. Here=92s the Global Street Party list as it stands at the moment: Bogota (Columbia), Berlin, Bielefeld, Thuringen (Germany), Lyon (France), Birmingham (U.K.), Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne (Australia), Tel Aviv (Israel), Geneva (Switzerland), Turku (Finland), Madrid (Spain), Ankara, Istanbul (Turkey), Gothenburg, Stockholm (Sweden), Dublin, Derry (Ireland), Seattle, New York, San Francisco, Berkeley (U.S.), Prague (Czech Republic), Olympia, Toronto, Vancouver (Canada), Athens (Greece), Luxembourg (Luxemburg), Ljubljana (Slovenia), Bratislava (Slovakia),Utrecht (Holland), Turin (Italy). 3. The Global Street Party is one of many actions happening under the banner of Peoples=92 Global Action (PGA). PGA which was founded at an international conference in February in Geneva attended by more than 300 delegates from 71 countries to discuss joint actions against World Trade Organization (WTO), =93free=94 trade and corporate rule. Actions include a Peoples=92 Trade Day in Geneva on May 18th and 3 days of action, information sessions and demonstrations in several Canadian cities also starting May 18th. Planning is underway for a massive demonstration in Dhaka, the capital of Bangladesh, by Garment Workers Unity Forum against WTO, World Bank and IMF, a =93No Trade Day=94 in the USA, and a Speakers=92 Tour in Bangladesh, Nepal and Sri Lanka to raise awareness about the role of the WTO. 4. Reclaim the Streets (RTS) is a decentralised direct action network seeking the rediscovery and liberation of the city streets and public spaces. It first became active in 1992, became absorbed in anti-roads protests and was revived in early 1995. It came to widespread public attention with the blockading and occupation of Camden High street, London on May 16th =9195, a street party with free music, food and clean air replac= ed the usual traffic and pollution and public space was reclaimed for the day. Since then there have been parties in Islington (London), 10,000 people on the M41 motorway in west London in July 1996, 25,000 on the 1997=92s March f= or Social Justice/Street Party in Trafalgar Square (with the Liverpool Dockers), as well as over 30 parties all over the "}, {"response": 2, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Wed, Oct 28, 1998 (06:01)", "body": "Reclaim the Streets is probably one of *the* most stupid organisations yet devised. Try and get people to stop using their cars by inconveniencing them so that they're late for meetings/appointments/work/picking the kids up from school. Politics of the inept."}, {"response": 3, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (18:27)", "body": "Almost a year later I stagger to the birthplace of my genetic code and find a disgruntled native. Oh well, I adore England, Cornwall, Wales, Scotland and everything about them...clotted cream, most especially. Been there three times, and wish I could manage to live there."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (01:56)", "body": "If I can't get back to Africa someday, I'd love to live in Kendal, in the Lake District. It is so beautiful. And there's a fantastic hot chocolate shop there - they even have rose flavoured hot chocolate!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (02:00)", "body": "Oh yes, rose flavoured and scented everything. How glorious!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (11:20)", "body": "You've been there?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (09:51)", "body": "You long for Africa, Ree? And hot chocolate, you must like hot fudge sundays."}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (11:58)", "body": "I always long for Africa - but I was lucky to have those 8 weeks there a few months back. And yes, I LLLLUUUUUVV hot chocolate, hot fudge sundays, cold chocolate sundays, ANYTHING that's bad for a person. I just don't understand why the bad things always taste so much better than the good things! Do you like sweet things? Do you ever go to England, Terry??"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (17:09)", "body": "Nope, never went. Not yet, anyway. I have been cross either ocean"}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (02:05)", "body": "Too busy putting up all those gadgets of yours, huh?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (02:23)", "body": "Ree, I have been to Kendal. Most lovely. All of that area is, you cannot be sighted and not be moved by the beauty of the place. (I tried to answer this using telnet but the response went one direction and I another...!)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (11:51)", "body": "went to London and Bath and Stratford and wherever Cheltnam is held (in Cheltnam?) Bath was my absolute FAVORITE!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (12:01)", "body": "Why the fondness for Bath?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (14:22)", "body": "I've never been to Bath, I have to admit. Everyone always says it's such a great place - must go and see it in December. Are you thinking about Cheltenham, Stacey?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (17:19)", "body": "Bath is on my \"next time\" list. (British English is NOT phoenetic!)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (04:48)", "body": "Nope! But Cheltenham does exist - about an hour or so by car from Manchester. I wondered whether Stacey might have been confused by the fact that this one IS actually written as it is pronounced. The English are so weird ...."}, {"response": 17, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (18:18)", "body": "Hey, that is my ancestral home (and yours too in part)...that is what makes us \"interesting\". (My other 1/2 is German, as well!) Cheltenham is another lovely Spa town...Regency architecture and all. Bath is special for both the Regency building circling around, but also for the incredibly well-preserved Roman Baths from which we get the name for the facilities in our homes...!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (02:29)", "body": "I really really MUST go see Bath. I love Roman architecture. I love those ancient Roman walls in Northern England, and that wall around York, and those strange Roman pillar constructions (do they have a decent name??) that you see in the most unlikely places sometimes. Or like Oxford and Cambridge - it is just incredible to be in a place that has seen civilization for so very long."}, {"response": 19, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (14:08)", "body": "They are called Pillars, as far as I know...they were erected to extol the accomplishments and virtues of the leader at the time. If you really like old stuff, get yourself to Avebury which is the largest stone circle in Britain, and of course, Stonehenge. If you manage to get to Stonehenge when there are newest people around it can be quite magical. I found it most profound, though I had heard so much about it (mostly new-age junk) that I did not want to see it at first. I have returned each time I have been back to Britain. Cornwall is full of megalithic goodies, and Glastonbury has the auro of things Arthurian. Definitely wo th a visit, also."}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (15:48)", "body": "I've seen Avebury, and that was amazing. But not the other things - I'll put them on my list. I think I'll take summerschool in Bath next year to start with."}, {"response": 21, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep 14, 1999 (19:27)", "body": "Oooh, loverly! There are wads and gobs of stuff on the net to help you choose just which is the right one for you - or several. Anything I can do, let me know!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (06:19)", "body": "I'll tell you closer to the time, then you can tell me all the loverly things I can go see."}, {"response": 23, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (18:09)", "body": "Will do! With pleasure *grin*"}, {"response": 24, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (16:58)", "body": "Why the fondness for Bath? --- first of all I LOVE fountains, and Bath has tons of fountains. My favorite part at the time however, was being inside something so old, with such a history. Fun to imagine the peole who had spent time there... And you know how in the U.S., if something is over a hundred years old, they wisk it away to be stored under glass and never seen or touched by human hands again? Well, they had this mosaic there... what was left of it... dated to 3 A.D. I was allowed to touch i ! Everyone was allowed to really explore. Much more touchy feely than our relic cities. Plus the functioning part of the town was just so authentic and quaint... and I liked the way it smelled... Are you thinking about Cheltenham, Stacey? --- if that's the one with the horse races... big horse races... lots of money... fancy dresses... lots of drinking... really fun actually!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (04:41)", "body": "NOOOOO!!!! That IS Cheltham. I didn't make the horse connection with you! Cool! Did ya ride anything when you were there?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (12:53)", "body": "*laugh* (supressing witty response) ... not any horses if that's what you mean!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (14:34)", "body": "Now that's a connection I KNEW you'd make! ha-ha!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (18:44)", "body": "S. will be in London all week. I'm off to the video store!!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (13:10)", "body": "8 die as trains collide in London 160 injured, at least 17 seriously, in fiery wreck MSNBC staff and wire reports LONDON, Oct. 5 \ufffd At least eight people were killed and some 160 injured Tuesday when two trains packed with commuters collided and burst into flames near London's Paddington station. The last survivors were freed from the wreckage some five hours after the crash, NBC's Charles Sabine reported from the scene. AMONG THE injured, at least 17 were in serious condition. Survivors told of a fireball immediately after the collision and the rush to flee. One woman said it was \"mass panic\" as passengers rushed the doors in the car she was on. The collision occurred about two miles from Paddington, near Ladbroke Grove. Another passenger said her wagon \"went up into flames\" and tipped over. \"There were really badly hurt people, badly burnt people,\" echoed another commuter. \"Some people have been impaled by seats.\" And one of the passengers who saw the fireball recalled how he wondered if he and others would perish in the flames. SIDE CRASH? Passenger Mark Rogers said he \"was reading a book and found myself crashing into the person opposite me. The train was going over and over and over, and people were thrown onto the floor.\" \"People were screaming, a person pretty clearly dead, a woman who was thrown out of the train,\" he added. The accident happened at an intersection on the busy rail line, and might not have been head on but rather from the side. \"I think we hit on an angle, on the side,\" said BBC radio editor Phil Longman, who was on board the inbound train. An engine and a front car were on their sides, he said, and another was pointing at the sky. One of the train drivers survived the crash, but he could not confirm the fate of the other one. The cause was not yet known, but it comes as public dissatisfaction with the railway system's performance is at an all-time high. Consumer groups and regulators say the system, privatized two years ago, cannot cope with passenger traffic that is growing faster than forecast. They are calling for more investment for train maintenance. The accident happened on the same line as a 1997 train crash that killed seven people and injured 150. EIGHT WAGONS DAMAGED Reuters journalist Wolfgang Waehner-Schmidt, who was on one of the trains, an inter-city Great Western Trains service from Cheltenham to Paddington, said the collision was with a smaller local train. The other train was headed away from London, toward Wiltshire. It had left Paddington Station about five minutes before the accident happened shortly at 8:11 a.m. local time. Waehner-Schmidt said about eight wagons were damaged and smoke was coming from some of them. \"We were in one of the last carriages. We got out immediately, smashed the window and jumped out of the train,\" he added. 'AMAZED WE ARE ALIVE' Andrew Hoskin, who lives near the scene of the crash, said: \"It is a terrible mess. One train is completely off the rails.\" Danny Firth, a passenger on the Great Western train described the crash as \"an almighty bang and everything that was in front of me came flying forward. There was fire outside. It was general chaos. People were walking around with burns and bruises.\" \"I am amazed we are alive,\" said a 21-year-old woman sobbing with shock and relief after clambering out of a twisted carriage. \"The first I knew there was a sudden brake. The train flipped over on to its side. There were sparks and screams and seats falling all apart and lots of glass.\" The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report."}, {"response": 30, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (16:29)", "body": "Oh John - how terrible! Did you also post this in Obit?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct  6, 1999 (13:49)", "body": "A real disaster. Those poor people."}, {"response": 32, "author": "MarkG", "date": "Wed, Oct  6, 1999 (13:58)", "body": "Hideous scenes, I'm afraid. Almost unbelievable that this happened on a line that connects with where the Southall train crash happened two years ago, killing seven. Ridiculously, the \"public enquiry\" into that crash was still going on . These are my italics, because everyone here seems to regard it as normal that the enquiry should take so long, at a time when clearly very few changes have been made and millions still pour into cities by train each day. There have been repeated complaints by drivers that they could not properly see the red signal that is taking most of the blame for this crash. Easy to be wise after the event, I know, but really..."}, {"response": 33, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct  6, 1999 (14:15)", "body": "The coverage we are getting is quite graphic...the only thing worse than being in the crash has to be the rescue personnel who are gingerly picking through all of that jagged, burnt and twisted metal looking for victims. My sincerest sympathies! Mark, that has to be a government enquiry...ours go on for years and years and, if it is like the Warren Report on JFK's assasination, the findings will not tell the story. That is the line to and from Reading and Slough, is it not? We used that line a great deal and know how congested that place really is!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Oct  7, 1999 (14:23)", "body": "The horror of it is still sinking in. We go to church not far from Reading and are waiting news to hear if any friends were involved. Today they are assembling a huge crane to start working on the first class carriage (wagon)that became a fireball. One report from a survivor from the carriage said 50 people were in it. The numbers just keep rising. They are now checking cars left in station car parks to try and work out who's missing. Unbelievably some cars in Reading statin car park have been broken into by thieves. We're all stunned."}, {"response": 35, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct  7, 1999 (15:08)", "body": "More than ever the ringing, still-operative cell phones they have been finding with loved-ones trying to locate the owners...terribly sad. Last evening I posted a picture from the BBC on http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/news/9.205 Please check it out before they remove it...it is still up at this hour. The enormity of it all defies attempts to put it into words...!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (05:36)", "body": "I know the complaints that have been going on in England. There was a whole article in a Manchester Newspaper when I was there, just 2 months ago. Why can't the authorities just take these people seriously, for once? I mean, it's not like drivers make these complaints for the fun of it, is it??"}, {"response": 37, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (13:23)", "body": "They've just had the initial inquiry report on TV. That line of track has been ordered closed until they resite the missed signal (which everyone's been complaining about). There's also a review of driver training and working practices. According to drivers, on that route they habitually started work at 2 am for an 11 hour shift. So, by 8 am they would already be tired and yet have to handle the busy rush hour time. Seems stupid to me. one bit of good news it that lots of people who had been reported issing have rung in to confirm they are home, so the numbers are down to around 127. Still terrible, but a glimmer of hope."}, {"response": 38, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Oct 10, 1999 (14:12)", "body": "Eleven hour shifts? That's proposterous! I hope the drivers are going to make a MAJOR fuss over this, it's high time."}, {"response": 39, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct 10, 1999 (14:21)", "body": "Last I heard, they were threatening to strike."}, {"response": 40, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Oct 10, 1999 (16:31)", "body": "The final number dead now appears to be about 40. Still dreadful. We hope a complete review of the rail system will come out of this - but ..... Today was a very sombre day as people reflected on the week. There are strong questions being asked about privatisation of the railways. Did you know the track and the rolling stock are run by two different companies since British Rail was sold off by the government?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct 10, 1999 (17:01)", "body": "No, Maggie, I had no idea it was not under the umbrella of the national government...privitization can be a Good Thing - but only if the private companies are held to strict guidelines. I cannot believe two companies were controlling such interdependent things as the carriages and rails. Terrible! I am afraid it could have been much worse (though, for all involved, it was horror upon horror)...!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jan 24, 2000 (20:10)", "body": "Villagers Protest Topless Hair Salon LONDON (Reuters) - Irate villagers demanded the closure of what was billed as Britain's first topless hairdressing salon. Men visiting the ``Mipples'' salon in the Buckinghamshire village of New Bradwell get a haircut plus the chance to see the stylist without her top on. Owner Gary Mernagh said the salon was just meant to be ``a bit of fun'' but it has provoked a storm of protest in the village and calls for its closure."}, {"response": 43, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jan 24, 2000 (20:23)", "body": "Not great PR to name your place that sort of name if you are gonna make friends with the ladies of the town. And, if you do not make friends with the ladies, you're in big trouble."}, {"response": 44, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Feb  1, 2000 (16:45)", "body": "Ok, where the last 7 posts?! *frown*"}, {"response": 45, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Feb  1, 2000 (16:47)", "body": "make that 17 posts... Guess they got lost in the Wash just like King John's treasure...!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2000 (21:53)", "body": "missing posts from server change Resp 46 of 62: Maggie (sociolingo) Thu, Jan 27, 2000 (13:05) 3 lines I LIVE in Buckinghamshire!!!!!!! Where did you get that Marcia - it didn't even make the local newspaper!! lol!! I wonder if they fog the windows so people outside can't see? The mind boggles. Resp 47 of 62: Marcia (MarciaH) Thu, Jan 27, 2000 (19:36) 1 lines It showed up on the Reuter's news ticker which runs across the top of my desktop. I clicked on it and sent it to John asking where I could post it (almost facetiously). He suggested here, so here I put it. Hmmm....How did it escape the notice of the town busybodies, who would pass it on to you??? *lol* Let us know if you hear anything more about it! Resp 48 of 62: Marcia (MarciaH) Thu, Jan 27, 2000 (20:00) 1 lines Considering what is going on inside, they probably fog up the windows without trying...! Resp 49 of 62: Alexander (aschuth) Fri, Jan 28, 2000 (13:39) 3 lines Judging from the brits I met, this definitely should lead to loads of better groomed males in the region. Field agent Maggie S. Lingo, investigate! Resp 50 of 62: Marcia (MarciaH) Fri, Jan 28, 2000 (14:20) 1 lines Yes, please! We NEED to know all you can tell us about this happening...or perhaps you should send in your DH to bring out a first hand report? ;) Resp 51 of 62: Maggie (sociolingo) Sun, Jan 30, 2000 (11:12) 36 lines sorry guys (and gals) the story's dead - it was from October. The village is the other side of the county to me, about and hour and a half's drive away. anyway, I did dredge this up for you from the news archives. Topless hairdresser battle will go on - 28-10-99 Mipples, the topless barber shop in New Bradwell's High Street, will open for business on Monday despite a residents' protest led by Beverley Scales. The shop is being run by Gary Mernagh, son of Woburn Sands mayor Tommy, and has attracted much controversy during the past week. And just days before its official opening, Beverley has vowed to continue her campaign in the hope of changing legislation regarding councils' licensing powers. She said: \"If necessary I'll lobby Parliament as there should be some sort of legislation for things like this. It may be too late for New Bradwell but at least it would stop this happening in other places.\" Councillor Paul Day, who represents New Bradwell, Greenleys and Wolverton, has given his support to Beverley's campaign. He said: \"As elected councillors people expect the council to have powers to deal with something like this. \"We want to see how councils can get the authority for licensing such premises in the future.\" \"But in New Bradwell's case, it seems only the number of customers will determined whether it's a success or not.\" So far Beverley has gathered 350 signatures in a petition against the shop which she intends to present to the environment committee meeting at Milton Keynes Council next week. Since the story was reported in last week's Citizen, local radio and television stations have all expressed interest, with the saucy Sunday Sport also keen on covering it. \"Everything has gone well,\" said Gary. \"I'm looking forward to opening and we're anticipating a good reponse.\" Resp 52 of 62: Marcia (MarciaH) Sun, Jan 30, 2000 (12:43) 1 lines Very Interesting, Maggie! Thank you for posting this article. How very curious! It does not sound as though the owner is quitting his desire to open an establishment wherever he can, but it is goinng to be tough wherever he tries! Resp 53 of 62: Maggie (sociolingo) Sun, Jan 30, 2000 (16:01) 1 lines To be honest, there are topless bars in towns all over, I guess it's just no-one's done it in a hairdressers before - or in a village. Perhaps the location's the problem (for some people). I don't reckon it'll catch on, there's not been much about it. Resp 54 of 62: Marcia (MarciaH) Sun, Jan 30, 2000 (16:32) 1 lines In Buckinghamshire???!!! Really?! Not here! Not even on this side of the island that I know of. I am most astonished! (Is my American puritanism showing again?) Topic 20 of 42: 'England' Resp 55 of 62: Maggie (sociolingo) Mon, Jan 31, 2000 (16:59) 1 lines I'm not saying I approve, just the facts of life. Resp 56 of 62: Maggie (sociolingo) Mon, Jan 31, 2000 (17:03) 7 lines On a happier note - You may have heard of the huge millennium wheel that's been constructed on the southbank of the Thames opposite the Houses of parliament in London. Here's a funny appeared in the paper: A texan tourist looked in awe at the London Eye millennium wheel. 'Wow,' He said, 'We have nothing so enormous back home!' His London host replied, 'If you think that's big, wait until you see the size of the hamster'. Well, I think it's funny, but I don't know if the humour travels well across the Atlantic! Resp 57 of 62: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Mon, Jan 31, 2000 (23:27) 5 lines Travel to http://www.spring.net , the new site. Kiss this one bye bye. Resp 58 of 62: Marcia (MarciaH) Tue, Feb 1, 2000 (11:02) 3 lines I kissed it, but it is far from bein"}, {"response": 47, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Feb  4, 2000 (22:34)", "body": "Maggie, England is here! There'll Always Be An England...!!!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Feb  5, 2000 (12:34)", "body": "Something's still strange - I can get to this on the address you gave me in the email, but it's not showing when I get inthrough spring.net!!! Sorry if that sounds wierd. When I get to travel conference it's not in the list despite me asking for 'all'. Any ideas?"}, {"response": 49, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Feb  6, 2000 (15:10)", "body": "I usually do not go in via travel/all. But, I just did and there was no topic 20/England listed...you are right! Must still be glitches to iron out. I will try to bring this to the attention of the magicians of Spring!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Feb  6, 2000 (18:00)", "body": "Thank you most kind lady. BTW tonight I can't get my list of conferences to come up either. It's late, I'm going to bed!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Feb  6, 2000 (21:22)", "body": "Funny, It Doesn't SMELL Like a Mailbox... LONDON (Reuters) - Letter-Writers Have Been Dogged by Bad Luck in a British Park. People mailing their letters in a Yorkshire park have mistakenly put them in a red bin for dog waste, thinking it was a mailbox. The box should have been green, but a local building firm supplied a red one. ``The color indicates to everyone that it is a postbox,'' said town councilor Geoff Richardson."}, {"response": 52, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, Feb  7, 2000 (14:09)", "body": "oh YUK!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb  7, 2000 (14:15)", "body": "If you get any really nasty mail, now you'll know why!!! Imagine expecting a red pillar box to be for anything other than mail?! It should never have been put up until it was repainted. Amazing!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Feb  8, 2000 (13:45)", "body": "Bet the person responsible never owns up!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Feb  8, 2000 (14:25)", "body": "*LOL* I sure wouldn't. What a mess!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Feb 10, 2000 (14:41)", "body": "BTW I still can't get in apart from through the bookmark. Did you see the mass murder case here involving a general practitioner (GP) doctor? He's been put away for life, but they're looking at at least 175 counts of murder. Talk about shock waves."}, {"response": 57, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Feb 10, 2000 (15:18)", "body": "Some Cockney for you. See what you make of this! Being a Londoner I can understand most of it, but there were still a few that beat me. There\ufffds a crib sheet below. You might want to be a bit careful - I think the list is English English not U.S. English! From: http://www.bio.nrc.ca/cockney/ compiled by Simon J. Foote I was in the Karsi, sitting on me Kyber, using the grey matter, when I thought, wouldn't it be nice if me Dutch made some Rosy. She got some fresh Adam's there. So I went down the Apples and told her. We could go up to the Rubba. Me in me best Whistle and Titfer and me new Daisy's, and her in her best bib and tucker with her new Tile. It's a long Frog but we'd do it O.K. on Shank's Pony. That's if our Plates last out. Probably see a couple of me Chinas there with the Arrows and a Pig or two. One's a Brummie, one's a Scouse. He might have his Geordie mate with him too. Could see another China of the way, he's a Septic but not a bad bloke. Likes to knock you a bit though. If I see the Runner, I'll probably put a Pony on a Nag, but if there is a Peeler about, he'll probably have it on his toes. If he gets Nicked he'll be Banged up for a full moon. I'll ask for a Butcher's at the form if he's on his Jack. If I win I'll get a Lardy and some snout for her. She's a bit Mutton at the moment but you should see the M nces in her Boat and her Barnet is a joy to behold. Won't even mention her North and South. Lovely as ever. English/Cockney Rhyming Slang Dictionary Cockney English 'appeny dip Ship Abergavenny Penny Acker Bilk Milk Adam And Eve Believe Adam's Pants Airs and Graces Faces Alan Border Out of Order Alan Whickers Knickers All night rave Shave All Time Loser Boozer Almond Rocks Socks Alphonse Ponce Ancient Greek Reek Andy Cain Rain Apple Core Score Apple fritter Bitter Apples and Pears Stairs Archer 2000 Aris Arse Aristotle Bottle Army and Navy Gravy Artful Dodger Lodger Arthur Bliss Piss Arthur Scargill Gargle (drink) Aryton Senna Tenner Bacon and Eggs Legs Bag (of sand) 1000 Bag of Fruit Suit Bag of Yeast Priest Baked Potata See ya later Bale of Straw Raw Ball of Chalk Walk Balti Basil (Faulty) Band of Hope Soap Bangers and Mash Cash Barclays Bank Wank Barnaby Rudge Judge Barnet (Fair) Hair Barney Marlin M'Darlin Barney Rubble Trouble Barry Crocker Shocker Barry White Shite Bat and Wicket Ticket Battle Cruiser Boozer (bar) Bazaar Bar Bed & Breakfast 26 Bees and Honey Money Ben Cartwright Shite Bended (knees) Cheese Bernard Matthew Queue Bernie Flint Skint Bernie Winter Printer Big Dippers Slippers Bird (Lime) Time Biscuit (and Cookie) Rookie Biscuits and Cheese Knees Bo Peep Sleep Boat (Race) Face Bob 1 Shilling (5 pence) Bob Hope Dope Bob Squash Wash Bobby (Moore) Sure Bobby Moore Score Borassic Lint Skint Boris (the bold) Cold Born and Bred Bed Bottle and Glass Arse Bottle and Glass Class Bottle and Stopper Copper Bottle of Glue 2 Bottle of porter Daughter Boutrous (Boutrous Gali) Charlie (cocaine) Bow and Arrow Barrow Brad Pitt Shit Brahms and Lizst Pissed Bread knife Wife Brian (Clough) Rough Bricks & Mortar Daughter Brigham Young Tongue Bright and Breezy Easy Bristols (Cities) Titties British Rail Email Brixton Riot Diet Bromley by bow's Toes Brown Bread Dead Brussel Sprout Shout Bubble and Squeak Greek Bubble bath Laugh Bugle Nose Bugs Bunny Money Burnt Cinder Window Bushel and Peck Neck Buster Keaton Meeting Butcher's Hook Look Cab rank Bank Cain and Abel Table Callards Trousers Cambridge & Oxford Ugly Face Captain Cook Look Captain Hook Book Cardboard Box Pox Carpet 3 Cash and Carried Married Cat and Cages Wages Century 100 Chalfonts (St. Giles) Piles Chalk Farm Arm Charing Cross Horse Charlie (Chan) Tan Charlie Nash Slash Charlie Pride Ride Charlie Ronce Ponce Chas 'n' Dave Shave Cheese and Rice Jesus Christ Cheese rind Four of a Kind Cheesey quaver Favour Chevy Chase Face Chicken and Rice Nice Chicken Oriental Mental Chicker Haircut China (Plate) Mate Ching 5 Chipmunks Trunks Chocolate (fudge) Judge Christian Slater Later Christmas crackered Knackered Cilla (Black) Back Claires (Raynor) Trainers Claret (red wine) Blood Cobbler's (Awls) Balls Cock & Hen Ten Cockel Tenner Cockel (Cock & Hen) 10 Colonel (Gadaffi) Cafe Colonel Gadaffi Cafe Cozzer's Cops Cream cookies Bookies Cream Crackered Knackered Crown Jewels Tools Currant Bun Sun Custard and Jelly Telly Daisy Roots Boots Dancing Fleas Keys Danny La Rue Clue Danny Marr Car (flash one) David Gower Shower David Mellors Stellas (beers) Day's Work 100 Dead Horse Tomato Sauce Deaf and Dumb Bum Deep Sea Diver Fiver Deep sea glider Cider Derby Kelly Belly Desmond Hackett Jacket Dicky (Dirt) Shirt Dig the Grave Shave Dixie Deans Jeans Dog and Bone Phone Dog's Eye Meat Pie Donald Trump Dump Dot & Dash Cash Doug McClure Whore Douglas Hurd Turd Drum (and bass) Place (House/flat) Drum and Bass Face Drum and Fife Knife Drummond & Roce Knife & Fork Duane Eddies Readies (cash) Duchess of Fife Wife Dudley Moore's Sores Duke of Argyles Piles Duke of K"}, {"response": 58, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Feb 10, 2000 (15:20)", "body": "oops, sorry, some the tabs haven't come out in the word list. The last word is the english one usually."}, {"response": 59, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 10, 2000 (18:40)", "body": "Did not hear about the GP (who apparently forgot: \"First, do no harm.\") How ghastly! Sounds like a gothic novel in the making - or a dreadful movie! Interesting word list...and I have not yet figured out how to post tables without that happening, but I will!"}, {"response": 60, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Feb 11, 2000 (13:28)", "body": "I wonder if we save the detabled word file as rtf it would hold the tabs when cut and pasted? the one above was also in a table but I selected it and then converted it to text. However, I left it as a word file and then cut and pasted. I think it may the same trick as posting tables in the body of an email. The Northern Ireland peace process has broken down badly today and the government has put the devolved parliament into suspense over the decommissioning of arms (or rather lack of it)."}, {"response": 61, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Feb 11, 2000 (14:08)", "body": "I'm not familiar with rtf offhand...I thnk I will still try to remove the tables with my html compositor first. Yup! Ireland is having their \"troubles\" again. I suspect the Barclay's bank bomb today in New York City was somehow connected."}, {"response": 62, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Feb 11, 2000 (14:36)", "body": "rtf = rich text format (a 'save as' option with Word). It saves the file in ASCI but retains at least some of the formatting from word. I hadn't thought about the Barclays bombing being related to the Norther Ireland peace talks, but I guess you're probably right."}, {"response": 63, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Feb 11, 2000 (15:35)", "body": "Of course! And I will transfer it to WordPad which I use for just about all composition...that is one of the options! I'll post more of the bombing when I hear more."}, {"response": 64, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Feb 13, 2000 (15:02)", "body": "Ethics fear over gene bank for medical trials Half a million people may be invited to take part in what would be one of the world's biggest public health exercizes. A national 'gene bank' is being planned to help create a new generation of drugs and treatments for conditions including cancer and heart disease. the data would be used by government health officials, scientists and pharmaceutical companies to investigate the genetic and environmental roots of diseases. .... A key factor in setting up the scheme - called the UK Population Biomedical Collection - has been the establishment of a national DNA collection in Iceland [in which the Icelandic government SOLD the nations medical records to pharmaceutical companies without people's permission!]. britain, with its large island population would be well-placed to embark on a similar venture. NHS family records offer an added advantage of 50 years of data for most of the nation. Whew! whatever happened to patient confidentiality????"}, {"response": 65, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Feb 13, 2000 (15:20)", "body": "Really!!! I'm sure your name would be disguised so only your closest friends and relatives and folks in the nearby towns would know who you were ;)"}, {"response": 66, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Feb 13, 2000 (16:55)", "body": "I'm for medical research, but this one beats me on ethical grounds. the thought of my GP being able to sell my medical records ...... BTW I still can't get into this topic from the travel conference, or my conferences in main - I'm getting in directly as ana ddress instead."}, {"response": 67, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Feb 13, 2000 (17:55)", "body": "Maggie. bookmark this until they get it sorted out: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/travel/20/new"}, {"response": 68, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, Feb 14, 2000 (13:35)", "body": "Done. The Oldest Known Valentine in English The oldest known valentine message in the English language has been discovered in the British Library. Written in Norfolk in 1477, the letter from a young lady to her fiance goes on display at the library next month. \"My heart bids me evermore to love you over all earthly things\" it reads \"and if my friends say that I do amiss they shall not stop me from doing so\". 'Technology may have changed, but some things are the same' A spokesman for the library said."}, {"response": 69, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 14, 2000 (15:04)", "body": "Maggie, that's great fun. Please post that on: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/porch/56/new"}, {"response": 70, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, Feb 14, 2000 (15:53)", "body": "Just watched a BBC programme on the Domesday Book. It's now belived that in 1085 prompted by the imminent Danish Invasion of England, William the Conqueror ordered an inquest to find out what was happening in the country. this was not just for tax purposes but to find out who he could trust. the original inquiry took only 7 months and used the saxon system already in place with shire courts etc. The domesday book itself is now believed to have been completed by William the conqueror's son, William Rufus in 1089-90 and can be considered to be a guide to settle the land register. This was the start of public records in England. It is housed in the Public Records office in london, in a huge Oak chest. Over the next few weeks other programmes in this series will look at other areas of English public life - next week it's obscure taxes."}, {"response": 71, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, Feb 14, 2000 (15:54)", "body": "Oops i forgot - you can visit their website www.BBC.co.uk\\history"}, {"response": 72, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 14, 2000 (17:29)", "body": "http://www.bbc.co.uk\\history will make it easier for people to use. Yup! It was so complete that it was supposed to be good till Doomsday (spelt domesday then!) Sounds like my kinda show...I'll be going straight to that url. Thanks!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Feb 15, 2000 (20:26)", "body": "Queen Elizabeth Catches Knicker Thief? LONDON (Reuters) - A former British army officer has admitted to trying to steal Queen Elizabeth's underwear and being caught red-handed by the monarch, the Sunday People newspaper reported. The attempted theft took place during a fire which ravaged Windsor Castle, one of the Queen's residences, in November 1992, Captain Nick Carrell, a former member of the Queen's elite bodyguard, the Life Guards, told the newspaper. Carrell said he had been helping to clear out the Queen's private apartment, removing priceless items of furniture, paintings and clothes. ``Yes, I admit it. I was planning to steal a pair of the Queen's knickers. I was helping to clear out her private apartment when I pulled open a chest of drawers. ``I was amazed to see it was filled with the Queen's underwear and I put out my hand to take a pair. Suddenly I realized she was standing right behind me, watching my every move. ''I don't know what she thought, but the Queen didn't say a word. It was all very embarrassing,'' Carrell told the newspaper. The ``surreal situation'' had ended with him hastily scooping up the contents of the drawer, putting them in a black bag and taking them to safety."}, {"response": 74, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (17:15)", "body": "Oh how funny, i've never seen THAT one in the news!"}, {"response": 75, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (17:44)", "body": "From the Berwickshire Gazette, an English Newspaper: A report has revealed that two traffic patrol officers from North Berwick were involved in an unusual incident whilst checking for speeding motorists on the A1 road between Oldhamstocks and Grantshouse. Last May, they were using a hand-held radar device to trap unwary motorists on the Edinburgh to London trunk road. One of the unnamed officers used the device to check the speed of an approaching vehicle, and was surprised to find that his target had registered a speed in excess of 300 miles per hour. The $5000 machine then seized up and could not be re-set by the bemused officers. The radar had in fact latched on to a NATO Tornado aircraft in the North Sea, which was taking part in a simulated low-flying exercise over the Borders and Southern Scotland. Following a complaint by Sir William Sutherland, Chief Constable of the Lothian & Borders Police force to the RAF liaison office, it was revealed that the officers had a lucky escape - the tactical computer on board the aircraft not only detected and jammed the \"hostile\" radar equipment, but had automatically armed a Sidewinder air-to-ground missile ready to neutralise the perceived threat. Luckily the Dutch pilot was alerted to the missile status and was able to override the automatic protection system before the missile launched. The Police have so far declined to comment, although it is understood that officers will be advised to point their radar guns inland in future."}, {"response": 76, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (17:47)", "body": "Nothing like getting your news stories about England from a poster in Hawaii."}, {"response": 77, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Feb 17, 2000 (13:34)", "body": "BTW North Berwick is in Scotland (not England) - it's near Edinburgh."}, {"response": 78, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 17, 2000 (13:54)", "body": "I know, but that was the form in which I got it, so I posted it as is. You cross the Tweed on that neat bridge (btw, that river is not tweed. No little white nubby things in the water at all!) and you find yourself in receipt of different-looking pound notes."}, {"response": 79, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Feb 17, 2000 (14:53)", "body": "Have you been to Queensferry - on the other bank of the river to Edinburgh, underneath the railway bridge?"}, {"response": 80, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 17, 2000 (15:13)", "body": "No. We took The Flying Scot and embarked into the Scottish sunshine from Edinburgh's station. On our way up that hill from the trains to the main street I managed - just - to avoid slipping on a dropped crochet hook. It is now in my collection and I have used it often and wondered what is was working on originally. Lace, no doubt. It is a very fine one."}, {"response": 81, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (13:33)", "body": "That station was originally a loch!!! - and therefore underwater. My husband really upset a scots friend and me because he insisted on doing his 'famous' scots accent whilst walking up Princes Street with us. I have never let him forget it either!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (14:38)", "body": "Oh, my dear! How mortifying!!! No wonder one has to climb up and out of that station. I can picture it...a former loch is obvious, now that I think about it. Must tell my ex and son. They were wondering about it, as well. Does it ever flood? There is the Museum across the street from the station, as well, isn't there?"}, {"response": 83, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (16:52)", "body": "I don't remember hearing about it flooding. It was done last century I think. I saw a programme on TV last night about various castles, edinburgh being one. I guess it must have looked even more spectacular with the loch, although I don't know when it was built - some of it looks quite modern. Haven't been to the museum. We'll be up there again probably in March or April to take meetings as we're gearing up for our trip and fundraising."}, {"response": 84, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (18:19)", "body": "It was an iron age hillfort as I recall. So, it does date back pretty far as things human up there go. Nothing like as ancient as Scara Brae is, but not much else is! *sigh* I need to go back and see the things not yet visited by me and to reacquaint myself with the lovely things I have already met...some day.... I truly must have been incredible with a loch at the foot of that towering bluff. Think of me when you see Arthur's Seat. It is volcanic, you know!"}, {"response": 85, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Feb 19, 2000 (09:41)", "body": "Yes, they said that in the programme and it surprised me - extinct volcano - wow! We expect to be going to Dunfermline and Motherweel where we have groups that support us and our work. I hope others can be arranged. My favourite route to Edinburgh is up the roman road which crosses hadrian's wall."}, {"response": 86, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Feb 19, 2000 (13:49)", "body": "It surprised me, as well. Can't be too many of those volcanic remnants around the Isles. That is a lovely ride up the Roman Road. Wish I were lint in your pocket for this journey...*sigh*"}, {"response": 87, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Feb 19, 2000 (15:36)", "body": "It was our girls favourite ride - seven blind summits!!!! Trouble is we're usually so busy up there we don't get time to play the tourist."}, {"response": 88, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Feb 19, 2000 (16:09)", "body": "You must make the highland loop sometime just as tourists. It is spectacular!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Feb 19, 2000 (19:28)", "body": "Cotton Grows on Sheep, Children Say PARIS (Reuters) - Bananas grow in Britain, cotton comes from sheep and the Netherlands produce olive oil. These are just some of the misconceptions researchers heard in a poll of children aged between nine and 10 from European member states, which showed that the majority did not know how food landed on their plate. The survey for the European Council of Young Farmers farm lobby found that a quarter of children in Britain and the Netherlands thought oranges and olives were homegrown. Three-quarters of children in the EU did not know where cotton comes from, with a quarter saying it grew on sheep. Farmers were seen as kind and affectionate, but most children identified them as grandfather figures and just 10 percent said they were keen to follow in their footsteps, said the poll by market research company INRA Deutschland. ``Most children do not know where their food comes from,'' EU Education and Culture Commissioner Viviane Reding said in a statement. ``This gap in knowledge about the production, the transformation and the distribution of agricultural products must be filled in all of Europe, in particular concerning specific themes linked to consumer safety,'' she added. The survey polled 2,400 children in the EU's 15 member states over the course of 1999."}, {"response": 90, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (06:45)", "body": "I'm not surprised. I'd never seen a cow until my honeymoon in Deveon when I was 20. I was horrified that they were so big. We visited a farmer friend of my husbands. he was in the milking shed when we arrived and we made our way there, and i spent the rest of the time pressed up against a wall absolutely terrified. We didn't have cows in London!"}, {"response": 91, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (11:34)", "body": "I was a suburban girl. I can also remember being terrified of them, but I did see one in books, magazines and such. With all of the Television these kids watch nowadays, you'd think they'd have seen at least a picture of a cow! Devon! What a lovely place to honeymoon with all that clotted cream and all...*sigh* Talk about calories...!"}, {"response": 92, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (16:44)", "body": "True, of course, I had seen pictures, but wow the reality! I think it's also because everything is prepackaged and kids just don't think about where it comes from. When I first grew carrots in my garden it cause a local stir - the kids had never seen carrots out of the ground - they somehow miraculously arrived in the supermarket."}, {"response": 93, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (17:17)", "body": "*lol* That reminds me of my neighbor in Hilo growing her first peanuts. She never had any peanuts to harvest so she asked me to look at her plants to see what was the matter. (Are you familiar with how they grow?) She kept complaining that not only did she not get peanuts, but that the branches kept trying to dig back into the soil and she had to uproot them each morning. I gently explained to her that only by diving back into the soil could those peanuts form on the ends of those branches. She left them alone and proudly presented me with some of her first crop! Nature is more amazing than anything else, I think!"}, {"response": 94, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (14:50)", "body": "MAN HIT BY BUS GETS \ufffd500 REPAIR BILL A pub landlord knocked down by a bus has been sent a \ufffd526 bill for damaging the vehicle. Norman Green, 51, was crossing a Leicester city centre street when he was sent sprawling by the bus. He suffered four broken ribs, spent a week in hospital and could not work for 14 weeks. He was stunned when First Leicester bus group asked him to pay for repairs to a light and windscreen broken in the collision. It threatened to take him to court if he refused to pay."}, {"response": 95, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (16:44)", "body": "The other half of the story (tony heard it on the TV in the gym yesterday) It was in a pedestrian area which allowed buses, taxis and pedestrians. He was advised to tell the bus company that he would be seeking damages for the incident. The bus company made a counter claim against him for damages as above. He ignored the first letter but when they persisted he put it in the hands of the solicitor and forgot about it. Now six months later he's received a reminder telling him to pay within ten days - he says he's going to ignore it."}, {"response": 96, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (17:54)", "body": "I thought it sounded just a little bit too weird for that to be the entire story! Thanks for the edification."}, {"response": 97, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (22:14)", "body": "Queen's Cook Dismissed for 'Poison' Remark LONDON (Reuters) - One of Queen Elizabeth's Kitchen Staff Has Been Dismissed After Allegedly making remarks about poisoning the British monarch's food, Buckingham Palace officials say. A palace spokesman told Reuters the woman had been relieved of her job as a kitchen porter about a month ago. ``She was taken on in December and dismissed at the beginning of February,'' the spokesman said. ``Her behavior was totally unacceptable.'' The News of the World newspaper identified the woman as Monica Traub, who worked at Sandringham Castle in eastern England, one of the Queen's many homes. The newspaper said she had suggested to a colleague that she was in an ideal position to kill the British monarch. The paper said Sunday she had asked a few days later where cyanide could be found."}, {"response": 98, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (22:16)", "body": "It must be a slow news day. All they can quote is the News of the World?!"}, {"response": 99, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Mar  1, 2000 (11:59)", "body": "http://www.pa.press.net/news/royal/ROYAL_Monckton_112344s.html?pab093 ABDICATION PAPERS KEPT FROM VIEW Papers relating to the abdication of Edward VIII were held back from academics and journalists amid speculation they may cause royal embarrassment for the Queen Mother. Ten boxes of papers from the archive of the former King's lawyer and confidante Walter Monckton were available for scrutiny at the Bodleian Library in Oxford for the first time. But historians and reporters expressed disappointment that a mystery box of documents was withdrawn from public view until 2037. Historian and expert on the abdication Andrew Roberts said: \"I don't know what is in the box because I have not seen the documents but it appears the crown jewels are missing from this collection.\" Speculation among academics was that the material - labelled box 24 - may contain papers shedding light on the Queen Mother's role in the abdication crisis of 1936. Oxford University professor of politics and government Vernon Bogdanor said the papers available did not contain any spectacular revelations but filled in vital historical gaps. Walter Monckton advised Edward VIII on his abdication after only a few months as monarch. Edward gave up the throne after he decided to marry the divorced Wallis Simpson and he later became Duke of Windsor. Prof Bogdanor said of the archive: \"This is part of history and part of British constitution, but also a personal family matter and a personal family wound. I don't believe the Royal Family want that wound constantly exposed.\" Speaking of telegrams sent between Hitler and the Duke of Windsor during 1939, he said: \"There is no evidence whatsoever that he has ever been involved in any treasonable activity against his country.\""}, {"response": 100, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar  2, 2000 (13:07)", "body": "THIS DAY IN HISTORY - March 2 1882 Robert MacLean tried unsuccessfully to assassinate Queen Victoria at Windsor; 1949 The first round-the-world non-stop flight was completed by Captain James Gallagher and his 13-man USAF crew. It took 94 hours, during which the plane, Lucky Lady II, was refuelled four times in flight; 1958 A British team led by Vivian Fuchs completed the first crossing of the Antarctic, covering 2,158 miles from the Weddell Sea to the Ross Sea in 99 days; 1969 The French-built supersonic airliner Concorde made its maiden flight from Toulouse; 1988 A new political party was born when the Liberals merged with the Social Democrats to form the Social and Liberal Democrats."}, {"response": 101, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Mar  4, 2000 (01:59)", "body": "The Full Monty for real! Britain Sheds Inhibitions And Clothes LONDON (Reuters) - Bashful Britain is shedding its inhibitions and Londoners are stripping naked to prove it. Be it the 69-year-old accountant wearing only a beard or the serene publicity manager with a tantalizing tattoo, Londoners are revealing all in a new book that seeks to end Britain's reputation as a nation of fuddy-duddies. There are bent penises, misshapen breasts and pregnant bellies. Wizened men and fat ladies mix with gorgeous girls and women of a certain age and clear charm. Bodies deformed by birth, cancer and genes mix with figures fit for Playboy. A cook stands proud, a knowing smirk about his lips. A drag queen downs wig, drops his frock and smiles. The buttoned-up banker is a model of naked joy, a naughty nurse steps out of a starched uniform and a prim air stewardess blossoms when finally released from her dour outfit. ``'Londoners would never pose in the nude for a book,' everybody told me when I went to London,'' said Greg Friedler, an American photographer who captured London's underbelly on film. ``I heard the same thing over and over: 'The British are repressed and introverted people.''' But not so repressed they can't show their scars, their wounds, their bulges and their tiny shriveled bits in public. NO TRICKS, NO TITILLATION JUST NAKED FLESH ``Naked London'' portrays people from all ages and walks of life as they transmute from respectable city dwellers into naked beings. Using a Mamiya 7 camera, a 65 mm lens, some strobes and a few white panels, Friedler has produced simple black and white portraits of real people at their most real. There's a man and his shaggy dog, a make-up artist and her sausage-eating son he keeps his clothes on -- and a research scientist cradling crutches. Friedler found a publisher with a smile to die for, a shaven porn artist in love with the lens and a recruitment consultant bulging with manhood. All are captioned just by age and profession, but are bound together by their city and their nakedness. ``Photographing someone nude is linked more to sexual gratification, eroticism or our conventions of beauty,'' said Friedler, whose portraits can be seen online at www.nakedlondon.co.uk. ``My concern is not to represent the way people want to look, but to record the way they DO look.'' He has created a touching picture. There are no tricks and there is no titillation these are the flesh-and-blood, imperfect forms we all see in the mirror. ``The most exciting thing about the book is not the tattoos nor the piercings but the overwhelming number of everyday people, normal people, not exhibitionists nor freaks,'' said Friedler, who has already portrayed naked New Yorkers and captured Los Angeles without its clothes on. NO SEX PLEASE, WE'RE BRITISH But why would buttoned-up Britons agree to do it? ``I can strike a blow for women of my age,'' said a 53-year-old customer services manager featured in the book, which is due out in April. ``Even if you have a funny shape or you have scars or whatever, it doesn't matter because that's just the shell. It's what's inside that counts.'' The full-breasted nanny says she is shocked by the size of her chest yet the gardening mother is sanguine about her sags. ``From here on, everything is going south and is rippling. I have spent most of my life doing things for other people and pleasing other people and I am doing this for me. There is a little part of me that wants to be a little mad,'' she said. For some, it is a sort of coming out. For others, a secret. ``My wife would kill me if she saw this, she doesn't know I'm doing this. We have a different background and different cultural upbringings,'' said a computer software manager who dropped his suit and his guard for the lens. Friedler saw it as a chance for him to get to know London and for Londoners to get to know themselves. ``When I thought of London and the British, for the most part I thought of Princess Di, punk rockers, royalty, tradition, fish and chips, an odd sense of humor and brilliant musicians. ``The British are certainly not as open about their bodies as the Swedes or other Europeans. But then neither are we Americans, by a long shot,'' he said. ``Surely for many Londoners, the act of posing was a step toward shedding their shell.''"}, {"response": 102, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Mar  4, 2000 (10:37)", "body": "Jolly glad they didn't find me in London - you wouldn't want to look!"}, {"response": 103, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Mar  4, 2000 (12:37)", "body": "Scary thought, indeed! How un-British!"}, {"response": 104, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Apr 10, 2000 (22:58)", "body": "Britain Overhauls Ancient Licensing Laws LONDON (Reuters) - Britain may finally join Europe's cafe culture after the government unveils plans on Monday for the biggest shakeup of pub laws since World War One. It is almost a century since strict opening hours were imposed on ``public houses'' across the nation to prevent factory workers getting drunk instead of furthering the war effort. Now the Labor government is proposing an overhaul of licensing laws for the new millennium, tackling everything from under-age drinking to how best to rein in drunks. ``There's no secret about the problems we're trying to deal with,'' said Home Secretary (interior minister) Jack Straw, who planned to lay out his plans to parliament Monday afternoon. Straw would not be drawn on specific details but acknowledged that pub opening hours the focus of most attention were in dire need of change. ``You have some pretty extraordinary arrangements so far as the hours in which pubs and clubs can be opened. We ought to look at that,'' he told BBC radio. Media reports have said well-run pubs could win the right to serve drinks around the clock while rowdy ones could be shut. Straw said the key idea driving his plan, which could take months to become law, was to get tough on drunks, give social drinkers more freedom and ease up the regulatory burden on small businesses serving alcohol. Scotland already has laxer laws than the rest of Britain and the 160,000 licensed premises in England and Wales say they are entering a new age governed by a 19th century mentality. Many landlords say the frantic rush for ``last orders'' at 11 p.m., when most pubs close, encourages binge drinking. But addiction experts fear that any lengthening of pub hours which have long baffled continental tourists used to more relaxed regimes could lead to still more drunks. UGLY DRUNKS OF EUROPE? While Britons are far from the heaviest drinkers in Europe, they are known for swilling in quantity, at speed and without food, often resulting in ugly scenes at pub closing time. Last year alone, Britons drank 12.3 billion pounds ($19.45 billion) worth of beer on licensed premises and police then had to cope with 676,000 violent incidents on the streets outside. Proponents of change say an end to the strict hours would encourage more social sipping followed by a staggered exit from the snug as seen in continental Europe's bars and cafes. ``A more liberal regime will actually contribute to a much more civilized drinking regime in this country,'' the British Institute of Innkeeping said. Others fear big drinkers will simply drink even more. ``There is much more to 24-hour continental-style life than allowing people to drink whenever they like,'' said Eric Appleby, director of the charity Alcohol Concern. ``We are no fans of the existing laws but there's no point replacing them with measures which do not address the serious potential for alcohol abuse.'' Straw said children were a top target since individual pub landlords currently decide if they are welcome or not. It also made no sense to have so many different authorities having a say in the running of any one pub or club, with 40 different licenses currently governing the sale of liquor."}, {"response": 105, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Apr 26, 2000 (14:22)", "body": "For your convenience, the new unisex loo BY SARAH O'GRADY UNISEX loos like the ones used by glamorous TV lawyer Ally McBeal have been imported to Britain. The American star and her colleagues - male and female - are often seen gossiping in the communal company washroom. Now the \"loo emporiums\" are being used by City workers in London's Square Mile. And to help people accept the different habits of the opposite sex - women know that men never put the toilet seat down - a new code of lavatory etiquette has been introduced. There are no urinals. So male staff may have to queue. And women are told not to hog the mirrors. \"Unisex loos are a great leveller,\" says Nick Hayward, manager at Nexus, the office service provider whose buildings contain the toilets. \"They inject an air of camaraderie into the office.\" He points out: \"We've had no complaints. All the companies renting our offices think they're pretty trendy, a bit different. \"Some people were a little taken aback at first but now hundreds use them. Some love them and linger afterwards, Ally McBeal-style. Others, perhaps older ones, just get on and get out. They don't see the lavatory as a place to socialise. \"We've got a loo emporium on each floor. They are stylish and spotless. The idea is bound to spread. Of course, men and women have their own toiletry foibles - men make more noise than women.\" Boss Adrianne Harrington, 33, whose staff and clients use the new loos, said: \"They are a talking point. I say to customers: 'Do come and see our Ally McBeal toilets.' \"There are a lot of bankers in pinstripes and dotcom entrepreneurs in fleeces. It's a cool building and unisex lavs are not out of place here.\" \ufffd Express Newspapers, 2000 Thanks, Maggie"}, {"response": 106, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Apr 26, 2000 (16:38)", "body": "Good grief!! the loo was the only sancturary at work where women could talk privately - the thought of sharing - YUK!"}, {"response": 107, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May  6, 2000 (16:29)", "body": "I am freezing this topic (which will mean you cannot post here anymore.) Please enter conversations pertaining to the British Isles in the new topic. Thanks! This topic no longer shows up on the hotlists so it is being frozen travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 21, "subject": "My favourite place in the world", "response_count": 16, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jun 12, 1998 (13:00)", "body": "\"...'mid pleasures and palaces, though we may roam...be it ever so humble, there's no place like home...\" I know it's trite, but...I've lived in the same town all my life (same street, actually) on the Chesapeake Bay, and I feel like every tree, rock, every crack in every sidewalk I know so well and it's part of me. I've vacationed in interesting places, but none that speaks to my soul so much as \"home.\""}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jun 12, 1998 (14:50)", "body": "I know what you mean. Swakopmund is where Mum used to take us during school holidays - some of my nicest memories are in those German bakeries, amongst the huge sand dunes surrounding it, and on those beaches. I've been all over Europe and Enland the past few years, but neither Paris, nor London or Berlin or Amsterdam or Rome hold the same kind of charm, none of those places will ever be dear to me in the same way as that obscure, simple place in Africa. We humans are funny creatures, aren't we? We long to see the world. We find the courage to do so, we embark on the journey with great, showy eagerness, with equally grand hopes and dreams of something 'better', something more exciting, somewhere where life will have 'meaning'. And then, when you get there, when you leave an unremarkable existence behind, and become a part of the 'better' life, you realize just how precious that unremarkable place really was. It is where you come from, a part of you which can't just be cut off out of your life like that without doing somet ing to you - causing pain. But by the time you realize this it is too late, and you can't return, and you realize that you've let a good thing slip through your fingers just because you weren't willing to polish your view of it every once in a while, and find the true colours glowing right there in front of you."}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jun 12, 1998 (14:53)", "body": "Well put, Riette!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jun 12, 1998 (15:29)", "body": "Thank God! I thought I'd completely lost the ability to make sense!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "jgross5", "date": "Fri, Jun 12, 1998 (19:35)", "body": "no, no, now let's not get ahead of ourselves there *i honestly tried to smile*"}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jun 13, 1998 (01:57)", "body": "I wasn't talking about YOUR kind of sense! That I can make perfectly and without a problem in the world. So you can honestly stop trying to smile. So, what's your favourite place in the world, Jim? Seriously now."}, {"response": 7, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jun 25, 1998 (18:53)", "body": "I really like the place in my head that I go to think things out. The road is always rocky coming in, but once I'm there, and have had a chance to sort things out at my own pace... the road back out to reality is always sweet, but nothing feels as safe as in my head, where time and tradition and history and the future really have no direct impact on me. I can be worry free, I can be selfish and I can be giving simeltaneously because I am the only one there. Sometimes I write about that place but only to relive the memory and to remember the warm feelings. It's kind of a bright, cool space but 'cool' like shade and still warm and comforting. This truly is my favorite place. The second is embraced in a hug. A real one. A strong one. Where I feel like the protected and the protector. A hug where body warmth and electrical sensations (good vibes) are passed from one another. A mutual hug."}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Jun 26, 1998 (04:44)", "body": "Sounds good, the place in your head. Especially because you don't have to cover tens of thousands of miles before you can get there. I like a big hug too. I am lucky to have a very tender, protective husband, who isn't too old or wise to seek my protection too."}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Apr  5, 1999 (00:21)", "body": "I think The Spring has become my favourite place in the world..."}, {"response": 10, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Apr  7, 1999 (10:55)", "body": "I can certainly respect the sentiment however, is the Spring your favorite place because it's so wonderful or because everywhere else doesn't seem so great??"}, {"response": 11, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (01:36)", "body": "don't know that the answer falls entirely into either of those..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (10:57)", "body": "ahh... middle ground. the safest place to be! *smile*"}, {"response": 13, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (13:09)", "body": "not quite that either... *wink* (that's still legal, right?)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (13:42)", "body": "winking is complete fair game! *wink*"}, {"response": 15, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (13:58)", "body": "good...hate to know I'd lost everything... really am happy for you two!!!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (14:45)", "body": "thanks WER! We've worked hard at getting here... a long time coming! travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 22, "subject": "Paris and France", "response_count": 31, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (22:57)", "body": "Oolala--Paris is truly the 'moveable feast'. Definitely the greatest big city in the world. Oh, the rest of France is pretty terrific too."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (01:00)", "body": "Ah, to be in Paris in the Springtime."}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (04:59)", "body": "Don't dream of it, just GO!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (07:58)", "body": "Hey, I knew you might make the scene here. Tell us of your travels to Paris!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Jul 25, 1998 (08:29)", "body": "Of which part? The reason why I go there? The journey? The food? There are so many things, and I don't want to bore you."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (09:10)", "body": "Start with the reason you go there, s'il vous plait."}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (10:55)", "body": "Right. I go, because sometimes I need to be on my own, and to be as I was before getting married and having children. And, stupid as it may sound, to get inspiration for my art. Art is EVERYWHERE in Paris, and wandering the streets fills me with new ideas, and with appreciation for what I do . . . and humility, because there are SO many really really good artists there. Boring, but true. Have you ever been to Europe?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 26, 1998 (22:04)", "body": "Never been, how about talking about the Journey?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (12:25)", "body": "Ah, the journey to Paris is almost as much fun as being there. Gillian and I always take the 7.30 train from here - gets us in just after 13.00. We always see to it we get there early, because that way we can grab a seat in the restaurant car. And then we try out all the different cheeses and teas and bread all the way there. It is wonderful. We just sit there, chatting over work and men - but not husbands or children - and stuff ourselves. By the time we get there, we feel quite sick from all the cheese (not to mention the state her spastic intestines are in after such an orgy!!), but happy as a pair of larks! If ever you should come to Europe, you must visit me (ha-ha, how very likely!!); then I'll take 3 days off and take you to Paris - you'll have the time of your life!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (14:11)", "body": "Can you tell us more about the food?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (14:55)", "body": "Well, I don't know the names of all the dishes, so I can't sort of recommend or anything. BUT: For breakfeast we have plain croissants with cheese and chocolate croissants for dessert, with tea. Lunchtime we always buy one long long long bread with cheese, tomatoes, salami, lettuce, and so on, and I eat from one end, Gillian from the other, and by the time we get to the middle, we're totally disgusted, 'cos we're so full, and decide there and then to go on a diet. In the evenings we go to the Bastille area, where there are loads of art galleries and caf\ufffds. It's great, because we usually go in spring when it's still quite chilly in the evenings, and so they have these gas heating lamps outside the caf\ufffds, so you can still sit outside. I find that so charming. Anyway, so we visit a few art galleries (Gillian has a fine eye for art), and sometimes we'll even buy a painting together - which means it hangs in her house for 6 months, then I take it for 6 months, and so on. And then, by about 21:00, we're ready for dinner. We look for the most obscure place we can find, because this is normally where the most fantastic cuisine is to be found. One particular evening we went through this tiny blue door (even I had to bend my head as I walked in!), and inside it was just wonderful! Turned out to be a seafood restaurant! We had the most wonderful fish there I have EVER tasted. And there was a guy sitting at the piano, singing really nice French songs - Piaf, and so on. Eve thing was just so warm and cosy and aromatic in there. And we had Cr\ufffdme Brul\ufffde for dessert - also the best I've ever tasted. Somehow they had managed to get the hard bits of caramel on top to stand up like a little spiderweb roof. That was very impressive. If you go to the more commercial parts you also eat superb food, but the obscure places are absolutely fantastic. Anyway, so when we've finished eating in the Bastille area, we always walk to the Eiffel, which is a long, long, long way away, mostly along the Seine, to make our stomaches feel a bit better; and we buy a beer on the way, to drink in the park there while admiring the tower. It is magnificent in those big lights after dark. Oh, I get sick for the place just thinking about it!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (15:30)", "body": "Awesome, now that we've had that sumptuous verbal repast, tell us about the romance of Paris, s'il vous plait."}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (01:50)", "body": "Now, that's a difficult thing to describe. It is a feeling you can't quite lay your finger on, you can't work out why it is there, but it's there alright, lingering ever so subtly in the atmosphere like perfume. I think it is the result of centuries of culture, art, music, architecture and natural beauty existing, evolving and growing together until they all fitted together perfectly in one single mould. That's the thing that struck me hardest about the place when I first got there - every part of it, however great or insignificant, just absolutely truly BELONGS there."}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (10:04)", "body": "Would you ever consider living there? Or do you just like it as a place to visit?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (11:34)", "body": "I'd like to just say, yes, I'd love to live there. But I wouldn't, because I'm afraid to. I always wanted to come to Europe, and if somebody told me 10 years ago, that I would be living in Switzerland 10 years from then, I'd think myself the luckiest person alive. But that's not the way it works. I was very much disillusioned once the luxury of being abroad wore off, and reality took its place. And so I am afraid to go live in a place I find exotic, because I know at some point it will become just another city, just an ordinary life with an ordinary routine. It is inevitable. And so, no, I would not like to go live in Paris, because I never want to think of it without the longing, or the wanting to be there."}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (13:46)", "body": "That's kind of like the way it is in Austin. This may be the ultimate place to live on the planet, but you get jaded to all of it by living here. But somehow I still remain in \"beginners mind\" about Austin, and I'm constantly blown away by my good fortune to get to live in this place. Have you been to the Eifel tower? If so, can you describe it?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (13:46)", "body": "The Eiffel Tower is like a magnet for every walk of life there is: tourists, locals, freaks, whatever. When we were there in '91 there were actually people hunger-striking around the base for better wages, benefits, etc. Who was this politically oppressed group? Driving school instructors. Socialized countries can be weird. The tower itself is ascended by elevator, and the top is mostly enclosed, with a platform surrounding it. Inside there is a fabulous panorama of Paris--there's the Trocadero, over there's the Marais district, and so on with all kinds of dramatic buildings everywhere (even the lowliest rat-infested building in usually constructed of, say, white marble). There's lots of interesting information inside, like the amount of miles/kilometres to zillions of cities in the world. We spent 5 hours up there for a cost of $10 each; what a bargain! There's nothing like it when the sun sets on Paris and you have the best seat in town."}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Jul 28, 1998 (13:46)", "body": "Yes, when I first saw it, sort of from a distance, I thought: so what's the big deal here? It isn't that big or impressive. But we went there anyway. And it was absolutely huge. And when you stand underneath it and look up, you see the most beautifully structured, highest sculpture imaginable. It is just stunning."}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jul 29, 1998 (09:54)", "body": "How high up in it did you go? What's the elevator system like?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 29, 1998 (10:18)", "body": "Check out my friend Bob Nagy's cool Paris France website that he just put together: http://www.botany.utexas.edu/Facstaff/stfpages/bnagy/France/France.htm"}, {"response": 21, "author": "bob", "date": "Thu, Oct 29, 1998 (10:20)", "body": "We took off for France on September 17th. We spent four days at the Concordia hotel in Paris. Among the places visited were, the Louvre, Fountainbleu, Palace Royale, Eiffel tower, Luxembourg gardens, Pere LaChaise Cemetery, George Pompideau Center, The Pantheon, Sacre Couer Cathedral and over 100 metro stations. We also visited our old \"Honeymoon Hotel\" which we stayed at during our 1990 visit. After four perfect days, we traveled south to Montpelier via TGV. There we were to meet two family friends ... Protestant missionaries..who were to help us get a hotel. They drove us out to Carcassone and also to a friend's vineyard. From there, we went to Avignon. From the swell walled city of Avignon, we took a day trip to Arles. In Arles, we took in the Roman Amphitheater and a great food market. In Avignon, we took the lengthy tour of the Papal Palace. From Avignon, we trained it to Nice. The coastal ride was magnificent. In Nice, I swam in the Mediterranean sea, and we visited the Marc Chagall Museum. We then to k the Private Chemin De Fer de Provence railway up into the High French Alps to the town of Digne Les Bains. Although we were unable to take in the baths lacking the required doctor's note , we did get to visit the wonderful Alexander David Neel Bhuddist museum. We spent three quiet days in \"deen\" as the natives call it. We then crossed the country back to Paris and spent another day there visiting the Catacombs and having our final night out. That consisted of dinner in a small cafe on the left bank...and a blissful concert of Chopin on a large Steinway in Paris' oldest church..a 12th century eastern orthodox church. The concert was by candlelight and beautiful Icons and paintings lined the walls in back of the pianist. We then took the metro over to say goodbye to the Eiffel tower...in the cool evening mist...and while walking back..happened upon the bridge where Princess Di left us. People were there late in the night..and flowers were all over. Next morning we flew back on Air France to Houston..hitchless s.."}, {"response": 22, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 29, 1998 (10:38)", "body": "Great stuff! And folks should realize that your website is truly a \"work in progress\"; but the linsk that work contain some gorgeous shots."}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 29, 1998 (10:46)", "body": ""}, {"response": 24, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Tue, Jul 11, 2000 (02:29)", "body": "I visited France last summer. I was on a two week bus tour around France, visiting Paris, Beaune, Lyon, Avignon, Nice, Monaco, St. Paul de Vence, Eze, Grasse, Nimes, Carcassonne, Lourdes, Biarritz, Bordeaux, St. Emilion, Dordogne Valley, Perigueux, Loire Valley, Limoges, Tours, Mont St. Michel, Normandy, Bayeux, Giverny, and back to Paris (on Bastille Day, which was exciting). We spent a few extra in Paris, after the bus tour. Provence is gorgeous, and I loved the hilltop villages and walled cities (Eze, St. Paul De Vence, Carcassonne, Mont St. Michel). I could have spent an entire day wandering around Monet's house in Giverny...the gardens and lily pond were amazing! Paris was a lot of fun. The gardens are lovely, and the architecture is very impressive. We went on a little Monet quest, visiting the Musee D'Orsay, the L'Orangerie, and the Musee Marmottan. It was fascinating to watch the artists at work in Montmartre. The food was wonderful, even though we ate in the hotels most of the time. I really wish I was able to remember more of my High School French (languages aren't my forte). I have to say that a bus tour is not my ideal way to travel, since you don't get much time in any one place. Then again, it was the only way to see so many things in a short time, and we met some wonderful people on the tour. Pictures from my trip can been viewed at http://world.std.com/~vbrown/p_fran99.htm"}, {"response": 25, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jul 11, 2000 (14:21)", "body": "Carcasson! Did you dig for the Templar treasure? Sounds like you had a dream trip. I have all sorts of images in my head and have no idea how accurate they are. Probably not at all!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Wed, Jul 12, 2000 (12:53)", "body": "It was a wonderful trip, but we were exhausted by the time we got back to Paris. I went with my mom, our cousin Maria, and Polly. We all ended up getting colds at some point. Poor Polly threw her back out the day after the bus trip ended (probably from all the coughing), but she still managed to get out and do a few things in Paris. No, I didn't find the Templar treasure, but I really liked Carcassonne. Was that one of the places the Templars built? Funny, I didn't hear about that when we were there."}, {"response": 27, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jul 15, 2000 (20:36)", "body": "Oh yeah.....never read \"Holy Blood Holy Grail\"....huh?! Polly went to Paris??? I had no idea. I am delighted you all got to go, but not about her back! Sorry about that."}, {"response": 28, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  4, 2005 (14:24)", "body": "back when my dad was still in the army, we went to a ceremony in france and all i can remember is it was at a cemetary (world war, i think)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Mon, Jun 30, 2008 (07:30)", "body": "Bonjour. C'est Paul \ufffd Austin, au Texas. Nous avons eu une tr\ufffds l\ufffdg\ufffdre pluie aujourd'hui. Je suis juste de manger le petit-d\ufffdjeuner, granola maison yogourt \ufffd la mangue. Je travaille sur spring.net, mon site et en ajoutant les r\ufffdseaux sociaux \ufffd celui-ci. J'esp\ufffdre que vous avez un beau jour, o\ufffd que vous soyez aujourd'hui. Msiou, est que la fa\ufffdon dont vous dire votre nom?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Mon, Jun 30, 2008 (07:32)", "body": "En France, qu'est-ce que vous utilisez pour la cr\ufffdation de r\ufffdseaux sociaux? Social Bookmarking? Social Media? Quels sont vos sites Web pr\ufffdf\ufffdr\ufffds que vous visitez tous les jours? Mon nom est Paul. Mon site est http://spring.net et je suis en train de trouver des sites de r\ufffdseaux sociaux d'autres pays qui sont tr\ufffds populaires. Do you speak English?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Mon, Jun 30, 2008 (10:29)", "body": "Bonjour Siley Amstram pur cyber goujaterie. Je parle fran\ufffdais plus facile que je ne l'\ufffdcoute de fran\ufffdais afin s\ufffdil vous pla\ufffdt pourriez-vous traduire ce que vous avez dit \ufffd l'anglais. Pourquoi est-ce vous les Fran\ufffdais sont toujours entour\ufffds de livres. Quels livres sont dans votre biblioth\ufffdque. pourriez-vous nous donner une visite guid\ufffde, en anglais? S\ufffdil vous pla\ufffdt. Je suis Paul terry Walhus et vous pouvez en savoir plus sur moi sur Spring.net qui est mon site et blog. \ufffdtes-vous \ufffd la cr\ufffdation de r\ufffdseaux sociaux, par hasard? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 23, "subject": "bargain airfares", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (11:17)", "body": "A good place to start: www.cheaptickets.com I heard of someone who got a $600 round trip ticket to Paris instead of the $3,000 the airlines wanted."}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (11:31)", "body": "That's incredible!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Jul 27, 1998 (11:31)", "body": "British Airways just started a nonstop from Denver to London and offered one way seats for $99!!! Yep, a buck shy of a c note! We called but never could get thru. Of course, I'm still looking for something cheap to Austin. I'm usually able to get RT on United for $162 BUT i CAN'T SEEM TO FIND THE RIGHT DAYS!!!!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jul 29, 1998 (08:55)", "body": "What about Southwest? http://www.southwest.com travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 24, "subject": "Austin and Central Texas places and things to do", "response_count": 94, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (12:52)", "body": "By request of Riette!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (13:57)", "body": "Thank you, Terry. So, let's start with the Hill Country. How accessible is it, and are there hotels in the area which one can use to sleep in? Because I don't do that camping thing. And do you have a photo to show me?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (17:12)", "body": "We are mulling over a vacation to visit family in Dallas next year, and from there, San Antonio, and who knows where else. I'm looking for some inspiration!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (00:34)", "body": "http://www.texashillcountry.com has a bunch of links to towns and places to stay. But I'll ask around too."}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (01:37)", "body": "Thanks, Terry - I'll check it out tonight."}, {"response": 6, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (23:17)", "body": "Eat at Little Italy..... Try the Tiramisu....."}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (02:08)", "body": "If it is within travelling range, I will very defenitely go eat at Little Italy! Is that YOUR Little Italy? Because I won't eat at a Little Italy where I can't get the best cook."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (09:50)", "body": "A good tiramisu recipe in the paper a day or two ago, didja see it wer?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (11:46)", "body": "good? I saw..."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (12:25)", "body": "Oh dear - a good friendship can go to bits over tiramisu recipes - do I get to play referee?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (23:04)", "body": "Well, I'll let wer win, because that was purely a subjective judgement on my part. Since I didn't try making it!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (01:47)", "body": "Oh, damn. And I so wanted to by hypocritical and pretend I'm the world's best diplomat. I've always wondered what that would feel like."}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (18:43)", "body": "wer rules in the world a tiramisu!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (01:35)", "body": "And what do his subjects look/taste like? WHAT are his subjects?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (18:55)", "body": "hehe..."}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (01:59)", "body": "King, oh King, where do ye live?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (17:38)", "body": "Austin... near Airport and Lamar..."}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:17)", "body": "You're a Texan too?!?!?!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (03:42)", "body": "NO, but I do happen to live here..."}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (05:09)", "body": "And what are you?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (13:58)", "body": "a hillbilly... (born in Kentucky)"}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (14:02)", "body": "At heart as well? What are hillbillies like? What are they known for? Like the Swiss are known for their cheese, and the Afrikaners for their racism, for example."}, {"response": 23, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (10:27)", "body": "Kentucky... known for its bluegrass..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (11:27)", "body": "hillbillys...known for moonshine and inbreeding... Kentucky...also known for its horses..."}, {"response": 25, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (12:26)", "body": "At least you don't look too inbred to me, Wer."}, {"response": 26, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (12:59)", "body": "a compliment, I presume?"}, {"response": 27, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (13:49)", "body": "Hmmm... dunno. Sometimes I find duplicate extremities appealing."}, {"response": 28, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (14:21)", "body": "conceptually or from experience?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (14:25)", "body": "What, she's got three?!?!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (14:28)", "body": "unfortunately, I don't know..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (15:42)", "body": "three very striking visual images..."}, {"response": 32, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (15:46)", "body": "since you've got so many, are you gonna share?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (15:51)", "body": "well, they're kinda busy right now, playing with each other. Perhaps when they're done..."}, {"response": 34, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (02:13)", "body": "ha-ha!!!!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Wed, Oct 28, 1998 (05:59)", "body": "Are there any freefall training centres in/around Austin? I would like to take my AFF freefall course next year some time, and it's much cheaper to do it in the US than here - any offers?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 28, 1998 (08:24)", "body": "Kristen would know about this."}, {"response": 37, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 28, 1998 (08:34)", "body": "email kristen@spring.net"}, {"response": 38, "author": "osceola", "date": "Mon, Jan 25, 1999 (15:04)", "body": "I'm going to the world's greatest Super Bowl party next Sunday. This is an annual feast. In fact, the game is secondary, perhaps even tertiary, to the party. The Super Bowl is just a reason for a big blowout (or, as the host says, \"Once a year the village comes together for a feast.\") Everyone contributes something, and the food is damn incredible. Last year we had salmon and mussels, shrimp diablo, oysters -- and that was just appetizers. There's three or four BBQ pits going. The volunteer pit master made turkey stuffed with crawfish etouffe (sp?). And, of course, brisket. And lamb chops, Elgin sausage, etc. etc. I was so full I didn't eat the next day. The guy who made the salmon and mussel appetizer is doing pickled beef tongue this year. Never had that before."}, {"response": 39, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 25, 1999 (15:44)", "body": "Sounds awesome, dude. Is this in your neighborhood?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "osceola", "date": "Mon, Jan 25, 1999 (16:34)", "body": "No, it's in North Austin, off Burnet Rd."}, {"response": 41, "author": "osceola", "date": "Mon, Jan 25, 1999 (16:36)", "body": "I am volunteering for oyster shucking because Texans don't know how to do it right. They need a Florida boy to show 'em how."}, {"response": 42, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 25, 1999 (17:57)", "body": "That's up in my 'hood!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, Jan 25, 1999 (19:32)", "body": "sounds great! That's what I love about Americans...big parties that everyone goes to!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Jan 27, 1999 (22:24)", "body": "Oysters? You're making me drool, George...pass the cocktail sauce..."}, {"response": 45, "author": "osceola", "date": "Thu, Jan 28, 1999 (13:19)", "body": "I'm a drool topic? I'm flattered."}, {"response": 46, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jan 28, 1999 (20:33)", "body": "ok, everyone... quit firthing and start klosing!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "osceola", "date": "Fri, Jan 29, 1999 (10:02)", "body": "The party host probably won't like this, but if you're in Austin Super Bowl Sunday, here's directions: I don't know the street address, but it's on Shoalwood, which is a few streets west of Burnet. The house is between Hancock and Koenig, one of those blocks. Can't miss it, you'll see a giant bbq pit in the driveway."}, {"response": 48, "author": "osceola", "date": "Fri, Jan 29, 1999 (10:03)", "body": "Colin Firth is NOT invited."}, {"response": 49, "author": "jgross", "date": "Sat, Jan 30, 1999 (00:53)", "body": "Autumn and Livia Giuggioli will be there now that they have directions. The couple will arrive together promptly when they get there. Meg Tilly will follow them by 5 or 10 minutes. Livia is Colin's wife. He won't be there. Meg is the mother of his 7-year-old son. I received all this info secondhand from Tahja, who got it from Rafikki."}, {"response": 50, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jan 30, 1999 (03:24)", "body": "neither of which will be there for fear of being eaten..."}, {"response": 51, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 30, 1999 (04:02)", "body": "His 7 year old son is lepleps uncle."}, {"response": 52, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (01:59)", "body": "I'll be there--I wouldn't miss a catfight between Meg and Livia for anything! (meowwwww!)"}, {"response": 53, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (06:13)", "body": "Tahja's apologized last night to you all for being a gossiper. She knows impressions are important and rarely acts in such a manner. Rafikki, of course, is a different story. She LOVES the dirt... and makes no excuses for littering it about."}, {"response": 54, "author": "jgross", "date": "Wed, Feb  3, 1999 (18:42)", "body": "Rafikki had an implant inserted in Meg's butt. It gives off a GIS location signal. I really don't know what she had done to Livia. Autumn has no worries. And that's what I like about Autumn. But Raf has a contract now with Motorola to develop Jini devices. For a cat, umm, she might as well be a human cat."}, {"response": 55, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Feb  3, 1999 (19:01)", "body": "shouldn't we all?"}, {"response": 56, "author": "jgross", "date": "Wed, Feb  3, 1999 (19:29)", "body": "I'm sorry, I did forget to mention that Meg's butt implant was inserted on the side of her left cheek. This allows for the convenience of much more comfortability. It's just like Rafikki to ensure that such thoughtfulness be carried out. Meg still doesn't know, because it was all done in the most clandestine way. (Raf had them use vapor drugs, etc., and other stuff she sees all the time on TV....which she wears on her right back paw's wrist....another of her inventions)"}, {"response": 57, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb  4, 1999 (09:52)", "body": "Actually Rafikki and I had a heart to heart yesterday afternoon (whilst she was keeping my toes warm cause I been under the sick blanket with a fluish kinda thingy for a couple of days). She regrets the fact that she's used her skills in such inappropriate ways and wants to be absolved of all wrong doing. I explained to her that once you have a reputation, it's a long road to changing it but it can be done. She wishes I had no worries like Autumn 'cause then her life would be worry free by default (or so she thinks - she still can't clean her own litter box). While we were sharing regrets, I said I regretted the fact that I'd never taken them to Austin. Perhaps under the careful guidance of Jah, Rafikki would have a higher self-efficacy level and not feel compelled to attract attention by implanting things in other people's butts."}, {"response": 58, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb  4, 1999 (18:09)", "body": "not to mention the whole television thing..."}, {"response": 59, "author": "aa9il", "date": "Sun, Feb 21, 1999 (22:34)", "body": "Hey, isnt it gonna be SXSW time soon? Are yall ready for the hordes? Mike aka cosmo"}, {"response": 60, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Feb 21, 1999 (23:24)", "body": "you would be correct, sir!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "osceola", "date": "Mon, Feb 22, 1999 (13:21)", "body": "The only SXSW thing I went to last year was the free concert in Waterloo Park. Jimmie Vaughan and Jr. Brown. Great show. Great vibe. Good old fashioned Austin came out of the woodwork for that one. So far, I haven't heard if they'll do a freebie this year. I hope they do."}, {"response": 62, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Feb 23, 1999 (12:33)", "body": "don't they still do the freebies on the stages in the intersections???"}, {"response": 63, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (02:17)", "body": "(do I wanna ask before I back up and see what we're talking about?)"}, {"response": 64, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (02:57)", "body": "*laugh* you might be disappointed if you do"}, {"response": 65, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (03:00)", "body": "oh, so just another day..."}, {"response": 66, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Feb 24, 1999 (19:05)", "body": "SXSW? Please define."}, {"response": 67, "author": "osceola", "date": "Wed, Feb 24, 1999 (19:54)", "body": "It's the country's biggest music conference. For a week, bands from all over the world play in clubs all over town. It started out as an idea to invite the music industry to Austin to introduce them to unsigned bands. Now it's a combination of unsigned talent and bands sent there by the record co. to plug the album. I first heard of it when the guy who booked student union entertainment at FSU went to check out the college-band talent. Also, a guy I know in Texas Instruments (the band, not the company) said they found a booking agent by playing SXSW. The music is cool, but the city becomes a madhouse for one week. It's held the same week that the state high school basketball tournament is held here, so it's really crowded."}, {"response": 68, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb 25, 1999 (12:59)", "body": "pronounced \"south by southwest\" ergo the acronym. Used to be a rockin' good time a week full of great new talent and lotsa mingling... prices have skyrocketed for a week long pass and they are bringing in well known talent more (as opposed to the fresh new talent) Bit of a CF for the whole city unless you're in the fray!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "osceola", "date": "Thu, Feb 25, 1999 (13:08)", "body": "Last year I got a free pass :-) It was part of that groovy \"old Austin\" karma at the free Jimmie Vaughan show in the park. Someone I barely know who's a year-round SXSW staffer saw me in the crowd and gave me one. It was Saturday night, so no one was buying them any more and they had some left over."}, {"response": 70, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb 25, 1999 (14:34)", "body": "wow! well worth the money I'm sure! :-)"}, {"response": 71, "author": "osceola", "date": "Thu, Feb 25, 1999 (15:52)", "body": "WOO-HOO!! TWO free shows in Waterloo Park this year! Friday (3-19) -- Joe Ely 7p.m. Opening act TBA (Maybe Colin Firth?;-)) Sat. (3/20) -- Starts at 4:30. The Damnations (good local band just released their first album nationwide and got a big write up in People mag, the one with Chelsea Clinton on the cover), Spoon, The Gourds (both local bands), and Guided By Voices (from Dayton, Ohio). And if you sit by the edge of the park by the sidewalk, you can bring your own cooler and not have to pay the rip-off beer prices inside the park. See ya!"}, {"response": 72, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb 25, 1999 (16:27)", "body": "Have a blast!!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Feb 26, 1999 (22:50)", "body": "Can you count on it being warm for those concerts? I can't imagine going to an outdoor anything here in March!"}, {"response": 74, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Feb 26, 1999 (22:53)", "body": "yes you can!"}, {"response": 75, "author": "aa9il", "date": "Tue, Mar  2, 1999 (21:42)", "body": "Hot Dawg! Man, all this SXSW talk makes me wish I bought some air line tickets for the thing. I guess I could of booked a room when I was 'stranded' in Austin during the big Chicago blizzard of 98/99..... The last show I made was a couple of years ago - I do remember seeing 'Laika & the Cosmonauts' at Maggie's and Brave Combo at La Zona Rosa - also got to see Cake too which was a cool show. From what I recall, it was a mob scene.... Reaching back to the far reaches of my memory, I remember SXSW back in '88 and '89 when it was a bit smaller... :) There were free shows in the parking lot behind Mad Dogs and lots of fun bands all over the place. Saw Brave Combo and Ten Hands back then come to think of it. It was me, my roomie John, Paul, my YL, and other friends just zipping all over the place trying to catch shows. We would call our answering machine and post new messages as to what shows we were going to so any friends dialing in could meet us. What a blast! Mike aka cosmo"}, {"response": 76, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Mar  3, 1999 (11:14)", "body": "HEY! Did ya celebrate in style yesterday???? Texas Independence, no?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Mar  3, 1999 (17:51)", "body": "HEY! No, not really... Yes"}, {"response": 78, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Apr 19, 1999 (19:55)", "body": "I'm making the pilgrammage to Houston again this year... I'll see what I can do about a stop into Springville! Or if any of you wanna drive up to Houston and go out for a beer... (*frown* i didn't think so...)"}, {"response": 79, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (10:38)", "body": "* PLEASE FORWARD THIS INVITATION ANYWHERE IT IS APPROPRIATE * ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cybercity information online: THE AUSTIN TELE-COMMUNITY GATHERS AGAIN! * * * * * * * * * * \"CYBER CITY\" Social - FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 24, 1999 5:30 - 7:30 pm - La Zona Rosa, 4th & Colorado Relax after work with the people and groups of Austin's TeleCommunity, visit with local Internet-focused nonprofit Clubs, Groups and Organizations, [or just unwind with a beverage; maybe pick up a prize or classy T-shirt] * * * * * * * * * * - Austin has the country's most vibrant and exciting Online Community. - So many of us hang out online but can't make face time... So let's all get together, unwind and put names to faces. And, with luck, you may win free door prizes and CyberCity T-shirts! Members of Austin's various telecommunity non-profit service groups are getting together to build better communications with each other and with interested individuals in the community. Everyone is invited to attend this informal social celebration: Internet people and groups coming together in person and to share with other online Austinites what we're about, and how they might join in. No commercial motives or agenda... just the local telecommunity all visiting together. Hosts: Metropolitan Austin Interactive Network (MAIN) Austin Area Multimedia Alliance (AAMA) Electronic Frontiers - Texas Austin Free-Net Sponsors: Austin 360 (Cox Media) Whole Foods Market Netpliance Frog Design Texas Community Resource Center Project (TCRC) INVITATION TO GROUPS - Every local non-profit Internet-related group is urged to participate. This will be a great (free) chance to tell folks about your activities and how they might become members. Plus you can visit with other groups, maybe even consider inter-group cooperation. So Please: get your group into the gathering... no cost, no obligation. All you need do is let us know and we'll save you a space. You can bring brochures if you want. Also membership applications and a sign. And Please Post this invitation on your website and mailing lists. The CyberCity event should be a great chance for building our telecommunity. GROUPS PARTICIPATING in the 1997 or 1998 Cyber City Celebrations [please make sure your organization is on the list] Austin Area Multimedia Alliance (AAMA) Austin Cypherpunks Austin Free-Net Austin Forum for Object Oriented Technology (AFOOT) Austin JUG (JAVA User's Group) Austin Linux Group Austin Software Council Austin Women In Computing (AWIC) Capitol Area Central Texas Unix Society (CACTUS) Capitol Macintosh Users (CapMac) Central Texas LAN Association (CTLA) The Cyberopera Electronic Frontiers - Texas Her Domain Impact Online \"Inside the Internet\" - KOOP Radio, 91.7 FM International Interactive Communications Society (IICS) International Television Association (ITVA) Internet Developers Exchange of Austin (I.D.E.A.) Metropolitan Austin Interactive Network (MAIN) Texas Commission on the Arts Texas Community Resource Center (TCRC) Internet Project Texas Environmental Center Texas Internet Service Providers Association (TISPA) Texas ISDN Users Group (TIUG) Texas MultiMedia Program, Office of the Governor Texas Rural Communities, Inc. Texas Telecommunications Policy Institute - UT/Austin 21st Century Project, LBJ School of Public Affairs - UT * * * * * * * * * * TIME & PLACE: Friday, September 24th, 1999 - 5:30 - 7:30 La Zona Rosa, 4th & Colorado Street TO ADD YOUR GROUP: email Gene Crick, gcrick@main.org EVENT UPDATES: check http://www.main.org/cybercity EVENT COORDINATORS: jon lebkowsky , marsha lebkowsky"}, {"response": 80, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 24, 1999 (10:02)", "body": "Cybercity information online: THE AUSTIN TELE-COMMUNITY GATHERS AGAIN! * * * * * * * * * * \"CYBER CITY\" Social - FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 24, 1999 5:30 - 7:30 pm - La Zona Rosa, 4th & Colorado That's tonight folks! Coem on down if you're in Austin."}, {"response": 81, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Sep 19, 2000 (09:51)", "body": "Waterloo In Store Performances (More info) Date: 9/5 - 12/31 Time: 5 p.m. Venue: Waterloo Records Area: Downtown Cost: Free Contact: waterloo@eden.com or (512) 474-2500 Drink free Saint Arnold beer and be part of an intimate audience to some of the best local and touring bands. September 14 - The Groobees September 18 - Melissa Ferrick September 19 - Fastball September 21 - Emmylou Harris (7:30pm) September 22 - Barbara Lynn w/ the Antone's House Band September 26 - Meat Puppets September 28 - Beaver Nelson October 5 - Omar & The Howlers October 13 - The Gourds October 24 - Eric Johnson Autograph signing to follow; no flash photography; recording devices prohibited."}, {"response": 82, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Oct 19, 2000 (09:28)", "body": "From msn citysearch: Only in a southern clime could there be movies under the stars well into fall. And only in Austin could those movies be preceded by an hour of the pure, live Texas sounds of The Bellfuries, Ted Roddy, Michael Fracasso and others. In the parking lot shared by the San Jose Motel and Jo's, every Thursday night until Thanksgiving, your favorite bands pick their favorite movies, and it's free. The music starts at 8pm on the sidewalk on S. Congress Avenue. It's bring-your-own lawn chairs if you sit in the parking lot. Or belly up to the coffee bar and sip a hot chocolate or a cold beer. At 9pm it's movie time as attentions are drawn to the screen tacked up on the back wall of the cafe. It's a small screen, but it's a very cool scene, and the views of the city, street and the people are just as enticing as the movie itself. This is the kind of scene that makes you glad to be living in Austin. The weather, the music and the setting make a perfect climate."}, {"response": 83, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct 19, 2000 (15:37)", "body": "Oooh, and all I have is a live volcano..."}, {"response": 84, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct 19, 2000 (16:43)", "body": "Austin360.com e-Lert!: October 20 - October 22 Hair-raising weekend What a way to spend Saturday -- the classic standby Citywide Garage Sale is worth at least a couple of hours and be sure and shave out some time for the Hairy Man Festival! Plus movies, exhibits and health-conscious happenings. It sure is good to live in Central Texas. NEED WEEKEND PLANS? Thursday Oct. 20 - Tuesday, Oct. 31 -- Keep yourself and area women safe and healthy by learning and helping all you can during Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Stay hale and hearty Saturday, Oct. 21 to Sunday, Oct. 22 -- Find bargain buys and affordable antiques at the Citywide Garage Sale. Grab your cash Saturday, Oct. 21 -- It's almost time to pul out thew winter furs, so what better time to see the natural insulation carried year round by particpants in the Hairy Man Festival. Bring a comb NEED MORE IDEAS? Here are our Austin weekend entertainment highlights. For details and even more, see our Movie Guide, Best Bets and the complete calendar at: Entertainment \ufffd Arts: Browse through photographs from Texas' Death Row \ufffd Community: Find out what Green Party platform is all about at 'Green Party Views 101' \ufffd Kids: Transport your wee ones back in time at the Plantersville Renaissance Festival \ufffd Movies: 'Pay It Forward,' 'Bedazzled,' and others hit Austin theaters Friday \ufffd Music: Like it funky? Tunji at the Mercury. A little country? Wanda Jackson at the Continental \ufffd Recreation: Ride out those cowboy dreams on The Outlaw Trail 100 \ufffd Restaurants: With the moon in your eye, find the best pizza pie \ufffd Sports: The only way to see the Longhorns pound on Mizzou is to go to the game. It won't be on TV \ufffd Travel: Take a day trip to the Old World of Fredericksburg"}, {"response": 85, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Nov 30, 2000 (14:55)", "body": "COMMUNITY NETWORK CONFERENCE December 11-12, 2000 (CTC; NTIA workshops - Dec. 10) Omni Southpark, Austin, Texas You are invited to the 3rd Annual Community Network Conference at the Omni Southpark Hotel in Austin, Texas. This is the year's key gathering for everyone interested in using telecommunications technology for community development. The agenda includes the latest information on community network programs and resources, as well as details of grants coming from the US Department of Commerce, Department of Education, Texas Telecommunications Infrastructure Fund and others. Workshops for community leaders offer expert advice for success and survival of community network technology projects. Pre-conference events begin Sunday afternoon, December 10 Conference presentations are Monday and Tuesday, December 11 and 12. Sunday, December 10 - Pre-conference events: (10:30) - Community Technology Center workshop. National CTC.net organization gives a complete overview of creating and sustaining successful community tech centers. (1-5pm) - NTIA national workshop on Technology Opportunities Program (TOP) grants coming in January. TOP program officers will describe 2001 program and give interactive guidance on successfully applying for an expected $45 million in grants. (5:30-7:30 pm) - \"Cybercity Social\" reception. The Metropolitan Austin Interactive Network www.main.org and the City of Austin Office of Telecommunications and Regulatory Affairs invites you to meet friends and colleagues at the annual Cybercity Social gathering. Monday and Tuesday, December 11-12 - General Conference Program: Details and preliminary agenda are online at http://www.tcrc.net/conference . This Community Network Conference emphasizes practicality as well as possibilities, discussing today's real telecom choices for community social and economic development. . We feel this year's program will be the most valuable and complete offering of community network technology information we have ever presented. Examples include Association for Community Networking \"CN success\" program tracks, Community Technology workshops from CTC Net, and extensive Rural Connectivity content, combined with announcements and assistance for CN tools, grants and resources. We look forward to seeing you in December. Gene Crick TeleCommunity Resource Center http:/www.tcrc.net/conference gcrick@main.org 512/919-7590 fax 919-7591"}, {"response": 86, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Dec  1, 2000 (08:08)", "body": "This has been a great event in past years. And free t shirts!"}, {"response": 87, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, May  2, 2001 (06:57)", "body": "Missed Eeyores last weekend, was in San Fran."}, {"response": 88, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 22, 2001 (17:07)", "body": "Reply to: lynda@tammadge.com Date: Fri Jul 20th 09:05 We are looking for men, 21 to 29 who drink imported and microbrewed beers to participate in a paid research study. The study will last 2 hours and we will pay you $60 for your time and opinions. Call 474-1005 on Friday from 9:00AM to 9:00PM, on Saturday from 10:00AM to 2:00PM or Sunday from 5:00PM to 9:00PM to see if you qualify. Other ways to contact poster: Call 474-1005 on Friday from 9:00AM to 9:00PM, on Saturday from 10:00AM to 2:00PM or Sunday from 5:00PM to 9:00PM to see if you qualify. it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests this is in or around Tammadge Market Research"}, {"response": 89, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul 24, 2001 (10:59)", "body": "Saturday 28 July 2001 2pm to 4pm Artist's Coalition of Taylor Howard Theatre 308 N. Main St. Taylor, TX -- 76574 512-365-5845 A mid-day gig, in a historic theater in Taylor (upstairs). Any and all are invited to come on our and see us. Door is $5.00 More info (and more sound samples later this week) on our website: www.casamar.net"}, {"response": 90, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 20, 2001 (09:53)", "body": "PRESS RELEASE SEPTEMBER 4TH MOVIE MIDWIFING SCRIPT MAKES QUARTERFINALS IN 2001 NICHOLL FELLOWSHIP CONTEST (Austin, Texas) Mark your calendar! The 2001 Movie Midwifing Series begins in only two weeks with an unstaged reading of Journeyman, by Austinite Sean Bridges! We^\ufffdre delighted to congratulate Sean on also placing in the quarterfinals of the 2001 Nicholl Fellowship Competition with Journeyman (the script placed in the top 285 scripts out of 5500 submissions, and is still in the running to advance)! Come on down to the Hideout Tuesday evening, September 4th, and see what all the fuss is about with this time-travel drama! In addition, if you liked Kat Candler^\ufffds award-winning feature, cicadas (Winner of the Audience Award at the 2000 Austin Film Festival), come check out an excerpt from her current documentary project, future of america, also featured on September 4th. \"Movie Midwifing: A Series of New Screenplay Readings & Short Films\" takes place Tuesday evenings, September 4, 11, 18, and 25th at the Hideout Theatre & Cafe at 617 Congress Avenue in Austin. Social hour (new this year!) begins at 6:30 p.m. Screenings begin at 7:30 p.m. and screenplay readings begin at 7:45 p.m. Admission is $6 at the door. The line-up for the rest of the 2001 Movie Midwifing Series is: September 11 - Contact Sports a lesbian romantic comedy by Houston writers Sharon Ferranti and Lauren Johnson. September 18 - Deep Blue a romantic drama by Austin writer Gayle Leslie. September 25 - Hollywoodland a comedic by Austin writer Gayle Leslie. September 25 - Hollywoodland a comedic fantasy by Austin writer Greg Murphy. Short films to be screened during the series include, in series order: Ladies Nite an excerpt of a new documentary on male strippers by Austinites Christine Irons and Andrea Tucker. Texas 42 a romantic fable by Austinite Tasca Shadix (screenwriter of The Book of Stars, starring Mary Stewart Masterson and Jena Malone, and writer-director of the upcoming feature film Preacher^\ufffds Daughter). Reign of Sanchez an action movie spoof by Austinite Baker Galloway. After each reading, the audience and cast are invited to share their feedback with the writer in a short, moderated discussion. Audience feedback is also solicited for the filmmaker whose work was shown. Sponsors of the series include the Austin Film Festival, the City of Austin under the auspices of the Austin Arts Commission and by the Texas Commission on the Arts, CC Digital Video & Audio, The Public Domain, and the Writers League of Texas. For more information, contact Lorie Marsh at 512-443-8229 or email info@moviemidwifing.com."}, {"response": 91, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep  4, 2001 (16:56)", "body": "A Billion seconds of UNIX and a GeekAustin party! posted by LinearB on Saturday August 11, @04:44PM So, the billionth second of the Unix epoch is coming up in a couple of weeks. What's that, you ask? Unix, internally, keeps track of time as a really big integer number representing the number of seconds since 12am on Jan. 1, 1970. Why? Well, Unix was being born around then. And, why not? Makes about as much sense as basing a year system around the birth of a random, long dead jewish carpenter... So, when is the billionth second since midnight about thirty one years ago? It's Sat Sep 8 20:46:40 2001. And GeekAustin is throwing it's first party. GeekAustin Billionth Second Bash Sat Sep 8, 6:00 at Opal Divine's Freehouse 700 West 6th St. Austin, Texas 78701 There will be free food, courtesy of LinearB and co., if you get there early enough. haha. We don't want your money. We don't want your resume. We just want you to come drink with us...in a refreshing recruiter-free environment. Read more for the technical analysis, courtesy of Orion: So how do you see the Billionth Unix Second for yourself? Perl to the rescue. The \"localtime()\" function takes a time in unix epoch format (a big integer) and prints out the time that number represents in your current locality. Here's a perl one-liner to pretty print this: orion@entropy:~$ perl -e \"print localtime(1000000000) . \\\"\\n\\\"\" Sat Sep 8 20:46:40 2001 Interesting side effect of this is that"}, {"response": 92, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan  5, 2002 (22:15)", "body": "http://www.geocities.com/tofogaus/TTT/austininfo.html Restaurants Name Address Pricing/Comments Downtown Austin area Amy's Ice Cream 1012 W. 6th Street Baby Acapulco's 1628 Barton Springs Rd Mexican Castle Hill Cafe 1101 W. 5th St. Menu changes weekly. They do not accept reservations(except for parties of 6 or more) or seat incomplete parties. You should get there right when the doors open for lunch/dinner so you won't have to wait in line. For those on a budget, the lunches are less expensive than dinner and just as good of food. Carmelo's 504 E. 5th St. Italian-expensive Chez Nous 510 Neches French Chuy's 1728 Barton Springs a couple more further North in Austin Cisco's Mexican 1511 E. 6th St. -east side of IH35 great migas/huevos rancheros, eat here for breakfast! Eastside Cafe 2113 Manor Rd Evita's Botanitas Mexican 6400 S. 1st St. Guero's 1412 S. Congress Ave. good mexican-politicians and musicians are seen here..Lucinda Williams was here during SXSW Hut's Hamburger 807 W. 6th The Best Texas-size Onion Rings! Ironworks BBQ 100 Red River Jalisco Mexican Rest/Bar 414 Barton Springs Rd Jean-Luc's French Bistro 705 Colorado French Jeffrey's 1204 West Lynn First Lady Laura Bush eats here. Katz's-NY Deli 618 W. 6th St. New York style food--good place Kerbey Lane Cafe 3704 Kerbey Lane & 12602 Reasearch Blvd. Longhorn Lodge Bar&Grill 501 E. 6th St. Matt's El Rancho 2613 S. Lamar Blvd Mexican Manuel's 310 Congress Mexican Magnolia Cafe 2304 Lake Austin Blvd & 1920 S. Congress Ave. Mars 1610 San Antonio St. Ethnic-Indian, Thai,Greek,etc. Mother's Cafe & Garden 4215 Duval Street vegetarian Salt Lick BBQ 18003 FM1826-Driftwood,TX Sweetish Hill Bakery 1120 W. 6th Street Shady Grove 1624 Barton Springs Taco XPress 2529 S. Lamar great funky place, cheap, & local musicians eat here alot. Threadgills 301 W. Riverside Dr. have live music sometimes during the week The Clay Pit 1601 Guadalupe Indian-good place for groups Trudy's 409 W. 30th St & 4141 S. Capital of Tx. Hwy West Lynn Cafe 1110 West Lynn St vegetarian food only North Austin area Cool River Cafe 4001 Parmer Lane Dave&Buster's 9333 Research Blvd sort of a chain, but good food and a big games/video area. Good place to go to get out of the heat! Fonda San Miguel 2330 W. North Loop Blvd reservations recommended North by Northwest Rest/Brewery 10010 N. Capital of Texas Hwy a bit expensive, but good West/Towards Lake Travis Bellagio Italian 6507 Jester Blvd. Carlos 'N' Charlies 5973 Hi Line Road have live music on Thurs&Fri./food was good; sits on Lake Travis Flores Mexican 1310 S Ranch Road 620-near Lake Travis Hill Country Pasta House 3519 Ranch Road 620 North (Lake Travis area) Hudson's-on-the-Bend 3509 FM 620 North Wild game/great food, but very expensive to eat here!! Oasis 6550 Comanche Trail-off of FM 620 on the Lake Food is better than it used to be, great views/drinks! Miscellaneous Thundercloud Subs All Over Austin Pubs/Clubs Name Address Comments Cedar Street Courtyard 208 W. 4th St. Copper Tank Brewing Co. 504 Trinity St pool tables, dance floor, home-brewed beer B.D. Riley's Irish Pub 204 E. 6th Street This pub was built in Ireland, shipped to the US and unpacked and assembled in Austin. Good food/Guiness Ice Cream Fado's Irish Pub 214 W. 4th St. Maggie Mae's 6th St. roof top deck Momo's 618 W. 6th St. (above Katz's Deli) Opal Divine's Freehouse 700 W. 6th St Nice 2-story place, outdoor balcony and back patio is surrounded by trees. Nice place to go in the heat of the evening. Waterloo Brewing Co. 401 Guadalupe (4th St. and Guadalupe) home-brewed beer, upstairs game area, roof top deck Antone's 213 W. 5th St.(corner of 5th & Lavaca) Blues music Broken Spoke 3201 S. Lamar Club DeVille 900 Red River St. Continental Club 1315 S. Congress Ego's 510 S. Congress plays a bit of everything-pool hall and music lounge Empanada Parlour 709 E. 6th St. restaurant/bar/live music Esther's Follies 525 E. 6th St. - near Red River Must see, this is such a fun comedy place. Thursday, Friday, & Saturday shows. La Zona Rosa 612 W. 4th Street Mercury Room 214 E. 6th St. Red Eyed Fly 715 Red River St. The Backyard Hwy71. West @ 620 Note: Lucinda Williams is playing here August 11! Same night as TOFOG. Scholz Gardens 1607 San Jacinto Blvd outdoor beer garden/music--German food Speakeasy 412 Congress Ave. Nice rooftop deck Stubbs BBQue 801 Red River St. Museums Name Address Comments Austin Museum of Art 823 Congress Ave. Bob Bullock Texas History Museum--IMAX 1800 N. Congress AVe at the intersection of Martin Luther King Blvd. $5 entrance fee-see website for map and parking info French Legation Museum 802 San Marcos St. tours 1-4 pm LBJ Library/Museum 2313 Red River St. Theatres Name Address Comments Alamo Drafthouse 409 Colorado 512-867-1839 Paramount Theatre 713 Congress Ave. Zachary Scott Theatre 1510 Toomey Road, off South Lamar near the Riverside Drive intersection Zilker Hillside Theatre located in Zilker Park in downtown Austin, across the parking lot from Barton Spring"}, {"response": 93, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr  6, 2005 (09:09)", "body": "Allen from China wants to know about beautiful places in Texas and since MCC owns part of his company, I recommended Austin."}, {"response": 94, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Wed, Apr  6, 2005 (09:10)", "body": "I recommend that you visit http://austin360.com Allen. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 25, "subject": "Cool website shows how to earn frequent flyer miles online", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (22:06)", "body": "OK, how far is it from Austin to St. Louis?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (13:15)", "body": "Looks like this has moved to http://www.mileageworkshop.com"}, {"response": 3, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (14:57)", "body": "Terry, it is 892.5 miles from Austin, TX to St. Louis, MO - according to Mapquest.com Thanks for the updated correction, Ginny. It is nice to see someone besides me reviving dormant topics! *grin*"}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (14:58)", "body": "That is http://mapquest.com/ travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 26, "subject": "Boston, Massachusetts", "response_count": 72, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (13:31)", "body": "Ooh, ooh! Wait! I'll ask my sister!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (13:36)", "body": "Who else lives or has lived in Boston?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Sep 23, 1998 (17:24)", "body": "Not me. They all talk funny up there. :-) Just like the guys on the Pepperidge Farms commercials."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 24, 1998 (01:17)", "body": "Sonja says that too! Says they're like Americans trying to be English, and failing miserably!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Sep 26, 1998 (22:35)", "body": "Yes, it's horribly embarrassing. You just want to whack them over the head with a frying pan and yell, \"It's gaRAGE, not GARage!!!\""}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 27, 1998 (03:36)", "body": "ha-ha!!!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 27, 1998 (03:37)", "body": "What is white trash?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Sep 30, 1998 (22:47)", "body": "Is this a rhetorical question? Or do you truly not know?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct  1, 1998 (01:21)", "body": "I don't know, really. My sister says her brother in-law's wife is white trash - I don't want her to think me stupid, so I don't ask. And what is trailer trash? Another thing I heard from her."}, {"response": 10, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Oct  1, 1998 (14:08)", "body": "White trash is any white person who is common and low-class, either in appearance or behavior. For example, someone missing a great deal of teeth; pregnant tattooed women smoking; obnoxious men screaming and swearing at their kids in the supermarket, etc. My grandmother used to think her neighbors were white trash because they hung their clothes out on a line on their front porch. Trailer trash is simply white trash that lives in a trailer park."}, {"response": 11, "author": "osceola", "date": "Thu, Oct  1, 1998 (14:55)", "body": "Thank you, Riette and Autumn, for cracking me up while I'm reading this at work. I don't think there are white trash in Boston. Is it strictly a southern thang, or is it throughout America (or even universal)? I think the term originated in the South, because I never heard it until we moved to Florida when I was a kid. Autumn, don't forget people in houses with broken down cars and auto parts strewn all over the yard. And ugly yard dogs that look better treated than the children. And being drunk before noon. I live in the south side of Austin, TX, so I know wherefrom I speak."}, {"response": 12, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct  1, 1998 (23:35)", "body": "YEEEEEE HAAAWWWW!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct  2, 1998 (05:10)", "body": "How sad. How utterly funny though! ha-ha! I can imagine precisely what you're talking about. What an expression!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Oct  7, 1998 (17:43)", "body": "All good examples, George!! Surely you have an Afrikaans word for this concept, Riette?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct 16, 1998 (12:36)", "body": "In Afrikaans the decent expression would be, 'Wit Gemors'. The crude expression would be, 'Wit Kak'."}, {"response": 16, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (12:17)", "body": "Riette, is Gemors something like Gem\ufffdse?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (12:19)", "body": "Because in the dialect of the village I live in, it would sound the same..."}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (13:17)", "body": "Uh-uh! No vegetables there! Gemors is 'M\ufffdhl'. And you speak this dialect of the village you live in? As in 'Ein Bayer auf R\ufffdgen'???"}, {"response": 19, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (13:24)", "body": "Ahem, not exactly. I grew up in a nearly totally non-dialect family, and people always took me for being from Berlin or Hamburg... Nicht mehr!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (17:27)", "body": "Sheesh...this is the 20th post and nothing of the glories of the Charles River, the Esplanade, the Boston Pops..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (17:37)", "body": "White trash is funnier than Boston. If you want to see white trash get their 15 minutes of fame watch Jerry Springer. Is he the reason posters here call themselves \"Springuers\" rather than \"Springers\"? Or is it to keep from being confused with spaniels? A third possibility: is it just that the faux French sounds so damn pseudo-intellectual? But seriously, anyone who remembers Bostonians overturning and stoning the school bus with black school children would never think that white trash does not exist in Boston. White trash is also an attitude, not just the visual cliches given above."}, {"response": 22, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (17:38)", "body": "yes, I know it's Springeur...sorry for the typo. I was trying to be too damned clever."}, {"response": 23, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (17:49)", "body": "I rather like Springizens"}, {"response": 24, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (17:57)", "body": "good one (is that for Spring citizens or denizens?)"}, {"response": 25, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (18:06)", "body": "...Yes!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (03:56)", "body": "Okay, so what is the difference between White Trash and LC? Sometimes my sister says her sister in-law is 'LC' - which apparently stands for Low Class -, but her brother in-law she always calls 'White Trash'."}, {"response": 27, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (16:15)", "body": "then there is the sportsminded misery NCAA which means No Class At All! We all know bunches of them masquerading as regular folks!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 24, 1999 (01:09)", "body": "MAN!!!! You guys have more classes than the Indians with their castes!! All concealed in mysterious abbreviations... I have another one for you. When I ask how she is, and she says her week was foobar or fubar - not sure about spelling here. What does that mean? She always gets me with these things, and refuses to tell."}, {"response": 29, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Fri, Sep 24, 1999 (06:11)", "body": "FUBAR is an informal military acronym: F----d up beyond all repair."}, {"response": 30, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Fri, Sep 24, 1999 (06:15)", "body": "We're joking for the most part, though. The Indians are deadly serious about their castes. Our designations are, for the most part, informal even if serious."}, {"response": 31, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (02:51)", "body": "Ha-ha!!! F-d up beyond all repair??? That's hilarious!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (13:27)", "body": "\"LC has a chance of becoming middle class, but white trash can move uptown, they sure stay white trash\" - that's how I'd read that."}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (01:07)", "body": "Like Elvis?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (01:12)", "body": "My daddy Elvis never had a chance"}, {"response": 35, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (01:51)", "body": "WHY AMERICANS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO TRAVEL The following are actual stories provided by travel agents: I had someone ask for an aisle seat so that their hair wouldn't get messed up by being near the window. A client called in inquiring about a package to Hawaii. After going over all the cost info, she asked, \"Would it be cheaper to fly to California and then take the train to Hawaii?\" A man called, furious about a Florida package we did. I asked what was wrong with the vacation in Orlando. He said he was expecting an ocean-view room. I tried to explain that is not possible, since Orlando is in the middle of the state. He replied, \"Don't lie to me. I looked on the map and Florida is a very thin state.\" I got a call from a man who asked, \"Is it possible to see England from Canada?\" I said, \"No.\" He said \"But they look so close on the map.\" A nice lady just called. She needed to know how it was possible that her flight from Detroit left at 8:20am and got into Chicago at 8:33am. I tried to explain that Michigan was an hour ahead of Illinois, but she could not understand the concept of time zones. Finally I told her the plane went very fast, and she bought that! I just got off the phone with a man who asked, \"How do I know which plane to get on?\" I asked him what exactly he meant, which he replied, \"I was told my flight number is 823, but none of these darn planes have numbers on them.\" A business man called and had a question about the documents he needed in order to fly to China. After a lengthy discussion about passports, I reminded him he needed a visa. \"Oh no I don't, I've been to China many times and never had to have one of those.\" I double checked and sure enough, his stay required a visa. When I told him this he said, \"Look, I've been to China four times and every time they have accepted my American Express.\""}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (13:00)", "body": "Oh my GAWD!!!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (12:55)", "body": "I can see this topic got nowhere fast! Shall we revive it by discussing some of the attractions in Boston?? Here are all the Massachusetts links from my bookmarks file, to get us started. Cities and Towns: http://www.magnet.state.ma.us - Commonwealth of Massachusetts http://www.mbta.com - Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority http://www.boston.com - Boston, MA http://www.boston-online.com - Boston Online http://www.bostondine.com - Boston Restaurant Guide http://www.ci.boston.ma.us - City of Boston, MA http://www.ci.cambridge.ma.us - City of Cambridge, MA http://patriot.ci.lexington.ma.us - Lexington, MA http://web.maynard.ma.us - Maynard, MA http://www.lowell.org - Greater Merrimack Valley http://www.worcesterweb.com - Worcester, MA http://www.worcester.ma.us - Worcester County http://www.amherstcommon.com - Amherst, MA http://www.noho.com - Northampton, MA http://www.wmwebguide.com - Western Mass. Web Guide http://www.mass-vacation.com - Massachusetts Tourism Museums and other organizations: http://www.mfa.org - Museum of Fine Arts, Boston http://www.mos.org - Museum of Science, Boston http://www.neaq.org - New England Aquarium, Boston http://www.nesc.org - EcoTarium, Worcester http://www.atmob.org - Amateur Telescope Makers of Boston http://www.bso.org - Boston Symphony Orchestra http://www.indianhillarts.org - Indian Hill Arts http://www.channel1.com/gbfa - Greater Boston Flute Association http://members.aol.com/lexbicband - The Lexington Bicentennial Band Newspapers: http://www.globe.com/globe - The Boston Globe http://www.bostonherald.com - The Boston Herald http://www.bostonphoenix.com - The Boston Phoenix http://www.telegram.com - The Telegram & Gazette http://townonline.com - Town Online TV and Radio: http://www.wbz.com - WBZ Channel 4 http://www.wcvb.com - WCVB Channel 5 http://www.whdh.com - WHDH Channel 7 http://www.wb56.com - WLVI Channel 56 http://www.upn38.com - WSBK Channel 38 http://www.boston.com/wgbh - WGBH/Boston, Channel 2 and 44 http://www.wlyn.com - WLYN 1360AM http://wavm.org - WAVM 91.7 FM http://www.wxrv.com - River 92.5 WXRV-FM http://www.wzlx.com - WZLX 100.7 FM http://www.wgir.com - WGIR Rock 101.1 FM http://www.wfnx.com - WFNX 101.7 FM, Lynn http://www.wrx.com - WRX 103.7 FM http://www.wbcn.com - WBCN 104.1 FM, Boston http://www.wxlo.com - WXLO 104.5FM, Worcester http://www.waaf.com - WAAF 107.3 FM Schools: http://www.umass.edu - UMass Amherst http://www.ecs.umass.edu/vip - Video Instructional Program, UMass Amherst http://www.uml.edu - UMass Lowell http://continuinged.uml.edu - Continuing Studies, UMass Lowell http://www.mit.edu:8001 - MIT http://www.media.mit.edu - MIT Media-Lab http://www.amherst.edu - Amherst College http://www.harvard.edu - Harvard University http://extension.dce.harvard.edu - Harvard Extension School http://www.bu.edu - Boston University http://www.bc.edu - Boston College http://www.neu.edu - Northeastern University http://www.tufts.edu - Tufts University http://www.wpi.edu - Worcester Polytechnic Institute http://www.unh.edu - University of New Hampshire http://www.dartmouth.edu - Dartmouth College Incidentally, if anyone is interested in taking courses long distance, I have taken a course through the VIP program at UMass Amherst, and am currently taking a CyberEd course from UMass Lowell. I recommend both!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (12:59)", "body": "Marcia and I were talking about the \"Big Dig\" in the Geo Conference. Here is the latest \"dirt\" on the Big Dig, in case anyone is curious about typical Boston politics. The Big Dig has a website at http://www.bigdig.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From \"The Boston Globe\", http://www.boston.com/globe SPOTLIGHT REPORT Big Dig team kept silence on overruns Underwriters got no warning; signs show year-long pattern By Brian C. Mooney, Globe Staff, 2/24/2000 Despite internal tracking reports indicating Big Dig costs were at least $500 million over budget, the project's director last fall assured bond underwriters that there were no cost overruns. The assertions by Patrick J. Moynihan, project director, at a meeting last Sept. 13 appear to be part of a pattern of concealment and even deception, dating back more than a year, on the part of Big Dig officials. The subterfuge surrounding the cost overruns collapsed Feb. 1, when Massachusetts Turnpike Authority Chairman James S. Kerasiotes, czar of the project, admitted publicly that the estimated cost of the Central Artery/Ted Williams Tunnel project will increase by $1.4 billion to $12.2 billion. The US Securities and Exchange Commission is investigating whether inaccurate information was included in bond offerings late last year by the state and the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority. Any SEC sanction would be an embarrassing blow to a state that has struggled for a decade to restore its fiscal credibility on Wall Street. In an interview this week, Jeremy Crockford, the project's chief spokesman, acknowledged for the first time that the project was $500 million over budget as of last June. He said: ''$500 million was showing as an exposure.'' Crockford also conceded that while the project routinely tried to offset those amounts with cuts in other areas, many of them were speculative or, as another Big Dig official said, ''were falling off the table.'' But Moynihan strenuously denied yesterday that he gave misleading information to bond underwriters last fall. ''I don't recall any specific questions being raised as to specific overruns,'' said Moynihan, who assumed the director's post in January 1999 and made an updated review of project costs a priority. ''In reference to any suggestions to overruns, I was referring to the fact that if we had cost pressures, we believed we had offsets, and that to the extent we did not, we were always in the position that the Turnpike Authority was in a position to cover them. I'm not going to go to a meeting like that and provide information that is not complete or accurate, or speculate.'' But several sources who attended the Sept. 13 ''due diligence'' meeting before issuance of a $500 million state bond offering nine days later, quoted Moynihan as stating flatly there were no cost overruns on the giant construction project. Besides several lawyers and state officials, a representative of the lead bond underwriter, Goldman Sachs, attended the meeting at the State House. Several of those present took notes. ''He shocked us by saying there were no cost overruns, but said if there were to be any, the Turnpike Authority could pay for them out its own resources,'' said one source, whose account was confirmed by two others who were present at the meeting. The offering's official statement reflected Moynihan's account and the now-discredited $10.8 billion net project cost estimate. The SEC is also expected to delve into a $200 million MBTA transportation bond issue last December. That offering also made no mention of any cost overruns. At the time of his meeting on the September bond issue, Moynihan knew, or should have known, that the Big Dig's own cost monitoring was consistently flagging projected overruns on a monthly basis throughout 1999 and that the project was running out of potential cuts to offset those increases. Moreover, the overrun estimates were artificially low because they failed to include credible or up-to-date projections in some areas and omitted other big-ticket items, among them an extra $260 million in fees for Bechtel/Parsons Brinckerhoff, the Big Dig's management consultant, and most of $300 million in additional costs for intensified construction work to keep the project on schedule. Those amounts were finally included in the $1.4 billion overrun figure coughed up by Kerasiotes on Feb. 1. Moynihan's statement at the bond meeting was neither the first nor last time the project served up dubious, incomplete or inaccurate references to the skyrocketing costs. Last fall, when the inspector general's office of the US Department of Transportation estimated construction costs could soar another $942 million over budget, Moynihan fired off a scorching counterattack, upbraiding the federal watchdog's methodology and scoring ''factual errors, misstatements, and misleading calculations.'' At the time, Moynihan's office knew the project was way over budget and well on its w"}, {"response": 39, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (13:04)", "body": "WOW!!! Did I neglect to tell you about this languishing topic? People, check out the Big Dig: http://www.bigdig.com/ And the archaeology they are doing as they go back through the layers of American history http://www.bigdig.com/thtml/dod_arch.htm"}, {"response": 40, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (13:34)", "body": "Geez, Ginny...the more money involved the more room for corruption. Terry and I were lamenting this problem with cost overruns and moronic thinking in Austin and in Hilo. It sounds like Boston has made us look like small stuff by comparison. Sheesh!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (14:02)", "body": "I know...sad, isn't it? Most folks have been pretty skeptical about the whole project from the start. Given the amount of money and time that would be involved, you just had to know that something like this would happen. At least the Ted Williams tunnel has been finished. I can't believe Cellucci hasn't gotten rid of Kerasiotes yet, but then Cellucci has shown that he's an inept politician. There have been a number of mini scandals recently, including Peter Blute's booze cruise on MassPort's dime, and Lieutenant Gov. Jane Swift abusing state resources. (She used her state house staff as baby-sitters, and got a ride on a state police helicopter to avoid Thanksgiving traffic.) Blute resigned and payed back the money. Swift just dug herself in deeper until she finally had to make a tearful public apology. Cellucci should have told her to face the music right away, so the whole thing could blow over quickly. The stupidity is amazing!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (14:33)", "body": "Unfortunately, they all have dirty little secrets so they treat one another as they hope they will be treated if/when found out...sigh It's nice to see Greek-ancestry people getting ahead in Boston! (Some of the nicest people I know areBostonians of Greek heritage...*simle*)"}, {"response": 43, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (14:39)", "body": "Let me hasten to add that all of those worthy Bostonians of my acquaintance are noble and hard-working taxpayers who are footing the bill for this travesty!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (15:18)", "body": "Thanks! ;-) Unfortunately, people like Kerasiotes give the rest of us a bad name."}, {"response": 45, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (16:09)", "body": "*Stuff* happens. Just don't get any one you! Your name is still good in my book and I will fight your devils with you *hugs*"}, {"response": 46, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (13:08)", "body": "Likewise, Marcia! *hugs* Technology is great when you can figuratively stand together...from a distance of 6000 miles! :-) I gather you have been to Boston at some point? Any sights in particular stand out in your mind? Here are some of my favorites: I went on one of the Duck Tours last summer, and had a great time. The amphibious boats are supposed to be the same ones used for the D-Day landing in Normandy. The tour starts on land at the Prudential Center, and enters/exits the Charles River near the Museum of Science. It was about 90 min. in all, and the driver told us some interesting stuff I hadn't heard about Boston. Wish I could have taped him! We went up to the Pru's observation deck afterwards to take in the views of Greater Boston. The Museum of Science, Museum of Fine Arts, JFK Library, and New England Aquarium are all worth visiting. My favorite exhibit is the Theatre of Electricity and Van De Graaph generator at the Museum of Science. Seeing a movie at the Mugar Omni Theatre is also a must! There's lots of shops and eateries at Quincy Market. Faneuil Hall has a National Park Service Visitor Center, http://www.nps.gov/bost/ , where you can get maps and a ranger-led walking tour of the Freedom Trail. (It's quite a walk if you follow it from Beacon Hill to Charlestown, but you pass through the North End with all the wonderful Italian restaurants.) I also love visiting Harvard Sq. in Cambridge...great music and book stores. You can get the best view of the Boston skyline from the Cambridge side of Memorial Drive, near MIT. Outside of Boston, there is Minute Man National Park, http://www.nps.gov/mima/ , in Concord and Lexington. Walden Pond is lovely, and has been saved from development, so far. I'm sure I'll think of more..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (13:34)", "body": "*sigh* that's supposed to be \"don't get any on you\" *sigh* (but, you knew that...) Unfortunately, my Boston experience was many years ago on our way to Maine for the summer of Post Doctoral research for Frank - before David was born! All I can see in my mind of that near-miss is the routing around Boston with me staring out the window trying to see the Colonial things amidst the skyscrapers! How disappointing. I have read about and looked through many pictures of the place and feel I know the place a bit and wish I knew it a lot better...!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (13:36)", "body": "Even though I usually \"hear\" people's postings in my own accent, I \"hear\" yours in Your and Polly's Bahstin accent which is like no other...*grin*"}, {"response": 49, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (13:59)", "body": "Polly has a great story about her first tour at the Arizona Memorial, which of course is a very somber park. She actually had the audience laughing from her accent...what a way to start a new job! If you ever do come to Boston, remember you can't \"Pahk the cah in Hahvahd Yahd\". :-)"}, {"response": 50, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (14:00)", "body": "Today's installment of \"The Daily Dig\"... Cellucci supports Kerasiotes, Big Dig Governor calls troubled project well managed By Frank Phillips, Globe Staff, 2/25/2000 Governor Paul Cellucci yesterday stood firmly behind James J. Kerasiotes, his embattled Big Dig chief, and said the $12.2 billion project has been well managed and has made ''remarkable'' progress toward completion. Standing next to Kerasiotes at a press conference to demonstrate support for the project, Cellucci and his aides also brushed aside reports that private contractors had unfairly profited from the Big Dig, contending that the project, the biggest public works undertaking in the country, has been free of serious corruption. ''From everything I have seen ... the construction has been a very well-managed process,'' said Cellucci. Cellucci's comments came as federal auditors were set to arrive in Boston today to review the finances of the Central Artery/Tunnel project, which has been engulfed in controversy since Kerasiotes announced $1.4 billion in cost overruns earlier this month. At the press conference, Kerasiotes indicated that he is intent on seeing the project through to the end. ''My mission is to finish this job,'' said Kerasiotes, the chairman of the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority. But the Big Dig chief, who for years had insisted that the price tag on the project would not exceed $10.8 billion, also said that the last few months have taught him he should not offer a ''lead pipe guarantee'' that costs would not climb higher. Kerasiotes said other unknowns could drive up costs again. But he said that the project will be 90 percent complete by next year and that there will be fewer unknown factors. Over the last several years, Cellucci and Kerasiotes have insisted that the project would be completed on budget at $10.8 billion and on time. The disclosure of the $1.4 billion overrun in the project has strained relations between Cellucci and Kerasiotes. Administration sources said Cellucci was angry over the way Kerasiotes and his aides handled the release of the information and believes it has been politically damaging. In particular, the governor was upset that he was not more fully informed when he and other state officials met in December with bond-rating firms in New York, the sources said. In addition, Kerasiotes was forced to apologize recently to the governor after the Wall Street Journal quoted him as making disparaging remarks about gubernatorial aides and saying that Cellucci was afraid of him. Kerasiotes said the comments were not intended for publication. Yesterday, Kerasiotes acknowledged he had mismanaged the release of the deficit figures, saying that ''events got out in front of us.'' ''Something very bad happened,'' Kerasiotes said. ''We got ourselves in the middle of a controversy about information. We weren't trying to sneak anybody ... We were trying to be accurate in our presentation. We didn't want to speculate. We didn't want to be irresponsible.'' Big Dig officials are now facing questions over whether they covered up the cost overruns last fall, when they knew that the project was at least $500 million over budget but failed to inform bond underwriters. The US Securities and Exchange Commission is investigating whether inaccurate information was included in state bond offerings late last year. A Boston Globe Spotlight Report yesterday disclosed that project director Patrick J. Moynihan assured bond underwriters last September that there were no overruns, despite internal reports in June that the project was $500 million over budget. Project managers insist that they did not mislead anyone and that they had counted on savings to offset the contract increases. They say it was not until a thorough review was completed early this year that the $1.4 billion deficit was calculated. Cellucci's comments yesterday came as he, along with businessmen, allies, and even some of his critics from labor unions, joined to press their case that the project is critical to the region's economy and that its management has been competent. ''This is not an issue to politicize,'' said Robert Haynes, president of the Massachusetts AFL-CIO, a frequent Cellucci critic who led an energized labor effort to defeat him in 1998. ''It needs a team effort,'' Haynes said. Underscoring the project's economic benefits, Cellucci announced yesterday that the unemployment rate in January fell to 2.9 percent, its lowest level in 30 years. The governor said he is confident that federal transportation officials who review the project will conclude it has been well managed. The team from the Federal Highway Administration is expected to remain here for two weeks. This story ran on page A01 of the Boston Globe on 2/25/2000. \ufffd Copyright 2000 Globe Newspaper Company."}, {"response": 51, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (14:09)", "body": "There are lots of Colonial-era historic sites in Boston, but you can't see 'em from I-95 (aka Rt 128) which routes around Boston. Maybe from I-93, while it still cuts through Boston above ground. Oh well, back to work..."}, {"response": 52, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (14:13)", "body": "Polly gave the intro on my first visit to the Arizona Memorial, and her \"Pearl Hahbuh\" for Pearl Harbor made is all giggle. She smiled and went on with her narration and we were totally disarmed. David did the intro on the second trip and he tripped up the stairs then said it was because his mom was in the audience. He got a chuckle and I got a little applause. That place is full of fond memories as well as the somber ones which the entire place evokes."}, {"response": 53, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (14:15)", "body": ""}, {"response": 54, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (14:19)", "body": "Couldn't see'um all those years ago, either. I am sure things have gotten worse rather than better from that perspective! Sounds like the Big Dig is in your back pockets more than any place else!!!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Fri, Mar 17, 2000 (12:03)", "body": "Public digests restaurants' low scores Results of Hub inspections on Web By Bruce Mohl, Globe Staff, 3/17/2000 With the help of a new city-sponsored Web site, consumers yesterday got to peek behind the kitchen doors of some of Boston's top restaurants to see what city health inspectors see. What they found was surprising. Some of the city's most prominent dining establishments and hotels didn't fare well on surprise health inspections, the results of which are posted at http://www.mayorsfoodcourt.com . The Four Seasons Hotel, which features the five-diamond Aujourd'hui restaurant, garnered only 60 out of a possible 100 points in a Feb. 17 inspection, although the hotel said the Web site was in error and that its score was actually 70. Other low scorers were the Ritz-Carlton hotel (61), the Marriott Long Wharf Hotel (66), the Bostonian Hotel (69), No. 9 Park (70), and the Marliave Restaurant (65). The austere Harvard Club on Commonwealth Avenue rated a 59, as did the more raucous Hooter's on Portland Street. None of the restaurants or hotels with low scores was closed, even temporarily. They were all given the chance to correct the problems, and they all scored near 100 on follow-up inspections. In the past, members of the public would never see the scores of surprise inspections unless they took the trouble to file a Freedom of Information Act request with the city and wade through paper files on each restaurant. That all changed Wednesday, when the Inspectional Services Department began posting scores from inspections carried out in January and February on the new Web site. Yesterday, several consumers said they had reservations about certain aspects of the Web site, but loved having access to the information. Some said it would probably influence where they eat. ''Obviously, I would rather go to a place that is consistently high and has no volatility in inspection grades. That volatility means somebody isn't paying attention,'' said Robert Haddleton of Norfolk, who said he would check out a restaurant on the Web site before going to Boston to eat out. ''Yikes'' was all Geoffrey Kent of Beacon Hill had to say when he learned the Burger King on Tremont street got a 65 on its Feb. 25 inspection. But the Massachusetts Restaurant Association and some state food safety officials have raised concerns that the scores, and the brief, generic explanations of violations that accompany them, may be misconstrued. ''I just hope the consumer is able to interpret the information,'' said Priscilla Neves, a food safety specialist with the Massachusetts Department of Public Health. The Four Seasons Hotel's managers said the score from its recent inspection doesn't tell the whole story. According to the city Web site, the hotel scored 60, with four critical violations. Inspectors say critical violations have ''the potential for danger to the public health.'' Matthias Kiehm, executive assistant manager at the hotel, said two of the critical violations - a dented can in the kitchen and the use of an unmarked spray bottle for olive oil - were corrected immediately, raising the score by 10 points. Another critical violation, Kiehm said, was incurred when access to a hand-washing sink was temporarily blocked by a portable rack used to transport food. He said the fourth critical violation - poor hygiene practices by employees - occurred when a chef prepared one meal and failed to wash his hands before preparing the next one. ''I think these violations were minor,'' Kiehm said. ''We take hygiene and sanitation at this hotel to another level.'' Eric Gilberg, manager of the Harvard Club on Commonwealth Avenue, said he was disappointed by the score of 59 his club received. His management team corrected all the problems immediately, he said, and patrons should have no concerns about eating there. Not every restaurant fared poorly. Jimmy's Harborside on the waterfront and Farragut House in South Boston posted perfect 100s. Locke-Ober rebounded from a 65 in November to score a 95, and the Fairmont Copley Plaza hotel rated a 90. Rusty Russell, who lives in Cambridge and works at the Conservation Law Foundation downtown, said the violation explanations on the Web site are full of jargon and scores aren't placed in any context. ''The site has the look and feel of something negotiated among a gaggle of bureaucrats, an overpaid private Web designer, and the lobbyists of the food services industry,'' he said. As for context, he said: ''It might be nice to have a color-coded bar that is divided into good, acceptable, not acceptable, risk zone, shutdown, or ptomaine pit.'' The city has steered away from such editorial comments. It does disclose whether a restaurant is shut down, a relatively rare occurrence. It also says most restaurants score between 85 and 95 on initial inspections, but it doesn't provide a grading curve or explain exactly what a lower score means. ''A low score tells you they're sloppy, but the question is `Are they going to "}, {"response": 56, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar 17, 2000 (15:24)", "body": "Geez Louise! This should be posted in the Food conference! And, I was eating lunch."}, {"response": 57, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar 17, 2000 (15:28)", "body": "...wish we could get some input from someone in the business...."}, {"response": 58, "author": "LauraMM", "date": "Fri, Mar 17, 2000 (15:42)", "body": "I'm from Boston, live in Attleboro, MA and LOVE Boston. It has its charm and we don't try to sound like we're from England, they try to sound like they're from Boston! (MA) that is;)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Fri, Mar 17, 2000 (15:54)", "body": "Got that right, Laura! I don't know how anyone could compare a Boston accent to a British accent; they sound *nothing* alike to me. I heard a radio show (on NPR) that said the current English accent was adopted *after* the colonies were formed. I don't know if it's true, but it would explain why we speak so differently in the US than in the UK. I thought the food article was interesting, but some of the \"critical violations\" sounded minor to me."}, {"response": 60, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar 17, 2000 (16:28)", "body": "Sounds are nothing alike judging by three travels to all corners of Britain and housing two Bostonian ladies =) I thought they were major until I read what the infractions entailed."}, {"response": 61, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Wed, Apr 12, 2000 (22:19)", "body": "Haven't logged in for a while, but here's the latest on the Big Dig. Kerasiotes finally had to face the music after the federal audit! Don't know why Cellucci didn't fire him a few months back. There's more info at http://www.boston.com/news/daily/11/bigdig_report.htm Cellucci fired Kerasiotes after US says it was betrayed on overruns Bid Dig finish vowed; Natsios takes the reins By Tina Cassidy and Bob Hohler, Globe Staff, 4/12/2000 WASHINGTON - Governor Paul Cellucci yesterday fired James J. Kerasiotes moments after the nation's top highway official accused the Big Dig chief of engaging in an ''unconscionable'' betrayal of the federal government by ''intentionally'' concealing the project's soaring cost overruns that could reach $2 billion. However, transportation authorities, while acknowledging the price tag is now approaching $14 billion, vowed to complete construction of the costliest roadway in the country even as they face continued pressure from a congressional watchdog to suspend the funding. US Transportation Department officials, citing a ''breach of trust'' by the state, made clear that a new management team on the Big Dig is needed to repair the damaged relationship with Massachusetts. In one of the most dramatic twists in the 16-year project history, Cellucci rushed from a tense private briefing with Transportation Secretary Rodney E. Slater and the state's congressional delegation to a private anteroom where he phoned Kerasiotes and demanded his resignation. Cellucci, in a news conference afterward, said Andrew Natsios, his administration and finance secretary, will replace Kerasiotes as the state struggles to resolve the fiscal crisis. ''It's important we open the doors and open the windows'' of accountability, Cellucci said of his decision to fire Kerasiotes. ''For the Federal Highway Administration to conclude that it was an intentional withholding of information, that's pretty serious ... In a democracy, you can't do that,'' Cellucci said. The firing followed Slater's release of a stinging audit that accused the Big Dig manager of ''repeatedly and deliberately'' failing to disclose the exorbitant overruns, causing ''one of the most flagrant breaches of the integrity of the federal-state partnership in the history of the nearly 85-year-old federal-aid highway program.'' Less than 10 weeks after Kerasiotes said the Big Dig's cost would not exceed $10.8 billion, the 48-page federal report concluded that the price could approach $13.6 billion. Slater, in the private briefing with Cellucci and the 12-member congressional delegation, acknowledged the total cost could reach $14 billion, after inflation and lawsuits are taken into account. Slater, acting on an investigation by auditors clearly furious that the Federal Highway Administration's regional office was kept in the dark by Kerasiotes about the cost overruns, issued 34 recommendations that will impose unusual scrutiny on the project's management and spending. Also, Slater made future federal highway spending in Massachusetts contingent on the state spreading funds to other road and bridge repairs far from the Big Dig. He also said ''no one is blameless as it relates to this effort,'' including the Federal Highway Administration, which he said became too cozy with the project. Peter Markle, the federal regional highway administrator, has already been replaced. But Slater did implicate Kerasiotes for ''intentionally withholding knowledge'' of overruns, which he first disclosed on Feb. 1 to have reached $1.4 billion. Auditors said that figure could reach $1.9 billion. The report also labeled the Massachusetts Highway Department and the Turnpike Authority as ''high-risk'' recipients of federal funds, which could make it more difficult for the state to get federal transportation aid in the future. And the report calls for the project's management consultant, Bechtel and Parsons-Brinckerhoff, to explain whether the company raised questions about the skyrocketing costs. US Representative Frank Wolf, a Virginia Republican who chairs the House appropriations panel that controls transportation spending, called the findings ''deeply disturbing'' and urged Slater ''to suspend federal participation in the Central Artery project at this time.'' But Slater said he intends to see the project is completed. And Senator John F. Kerry said he received assurance from another potentially powerful foe of the Big Dig, Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican who chairs the Senate Commerce Committee, that he would not turn the project into ''a political football.'' Project director Patrick Moynihan, whom Kerasiotes called on to do a top-to-bottom review of the Big Dig's soaring costs, appeared to be safe in his position for now, though Natsios has the power to remove him and would not respond to questions yesterday about project personnel. It was Moynihan who projected the $1.4 billion in overruns. Kerasiotes, who has been unusually subdued the past few days,"}, {"response": 62, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Apr 12, 2000 (23:10)", "body": "Well, they got rid of the Greek connection and washed their hands so as not to sling any more mud than necessary. Has the unfortunate successor been chosen? Not a job for which I would rush to apply!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Thu, Apr 13, 2000 (01:15)", "body": "Andrew Natsios, Cellucci's administration and finance secretary, got the job. He's supposed to be a tight-fisted, fiscal conservative. Reportedly he didn't want the job. (Who could blame him?) Sounds like another Greek... According to some reports, Kerasiotes started out well and actually kept costs down, but eventually got too arrogant and wouldn't listen to the reports of cost overruns. Most likely that old \"absolute power corrupts absolutely\" thing..."}, {"response": 64, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Apr 13, 2000 (14:37)", "body": "Just as long as this new Greek comes bearing the Gifts of management and responsibility and not those who would destroy further... New Brroms sweep clean, and all that, you know. Good luck, Boston!"}, {"response": 65, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Fri, Apr 14, 2000 (00:11)", "body": "Thanks! Natsios has already started cleaning house, so here's hoping... Since the Boston Marathon is next Monday, here are some links. You can even take a virtual tour of the route. http://www.bostonmarathon.org http://www.boston.com/marathon/course Here are some links with Patriot's Day info, and other local history: Minuteman National Park, http://www.nps.gov/mima Lexington Historical Society, http://www.lexingtonhistory.org Concord Museum, http://www.concordmuseum.org Musuem of Our National Heritage, http://www.mnh.org Alcott House, http://www.louisamayalcott.org Thoreau Society, http://www.walden.org Walden Pond, http://www.state.ma.us/dem/parks/wldn.htm"}, {"response": 66, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Apr 15, 2000 (21:39)", "body": "We have had the Honolulu Marathon (December, I think) so it will be nice to see how yours does. Btw, I am guessing you are going to have to miss participating this year, yes?! Your's is the oldest (of the modern ones, that is), is it not?"}, {"response": 67, "author": "zx6rider", "date": "Thu, Apr 27, 2000 (21:23)", "body": "O.k. boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen and anybody left over... some of you know me from my infrequent 'drop-ins' over the years, some of you wouldn't know me if I was standing right in front of you. Despite that I have something I'd like to tell you about... something I'm doing that I think is pretty incredible... something I need the Spring's help, your help, to do. I\ufffdm writing because in a few months, I\ufffdll be participating in very powerful event to help fight the battle against AIDS. In September 2000, I\ufffdll take three days out of my life to ride a bicycle 275 miles from Boston to New York with over 3,000 other people in an event called Boston-New York AIDSRide 6. We\ufffdre riding to raise money for the HIV/AIDS-related services of Fenway Community Health in Boston. We hope to raise more than $5 million for individuals living with AIDS, and important AIDS prevention programs. I\ufffdve agreed to raise at least $1,700 in pledges between now and the beginning of the Ride on September 15th. I need your help. Would you please make a pledge to help me meet my goal? Please keep in mind how far I\ufffdm riding, the commitment I\ufffdve made and how long I\ufffdll have to train for this event. Between now and the date of the Ride, I will log 50 to 150 miles per week on my bicycle \ufffd I\ufffdm probably in the saddle right now! Make out a check, today if you can. Make it payable to \"Boston-New York AIDSRide 6\" and mail it to: Gena Ratcliff, 16 Balmoral St #111, Andover MA 01810. When I receive it, I will fill out a pledge form in your name and submit it with your check. Remember, all contributions are tax deductible. Thanks for listening... and thank you in advance for your generousity"}, {"response": 68, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Tue, May 23, 2000 (11:40)", "body": "Sorry, forgot to post the results of the Boston Marathon: Men's (wheelchair): Franz Nietlispach, 1:33:32 Women's (wheelchair): Jean Driscoll, 2:00:52 Men's (foot): Elijah Lagat, 2:09:47 Womens's (foot): Catherine Ndereba, 2:26:11 You that right, Marcia...I have never run the marathon, and don't plan to. Seems like a form of self-torture. When I used to get the day off, I watched the marathon from the sidelines and cheered 'em on, though. It was amazing to see a \"sea of humanity\" running along the route. I think the Boston Marathon is the oldest city marathon. According to the web page, the first running was in 1897, and was inspired by the first marathon of the modern Olympics in 1896."}, {"response": 69, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Tue, May 23, 2000 (11:45)", "body": "I've been informed that the Greater Boston Flute Association url that I posted earlier has moved, and is now at http://www.gbfa.org/"}, {"response": 70, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, May 24, 2000 (20:31)", "body": "I wondered where they had gone! (There is a Greater Boston Flute Association?!)"}, {"response": 71, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Wed, Jul 12, 2000 (12:13)", "body": "Since I know Marcia has been watching the Tall Ships on TV (probably has seen more of the coverage than I have, since I've been stuck at work), I thought I'd post a couple of links: http://www.sailboston.com http://www.boston.com http://www.whdh.com/sailboston/"}, {"response": 72, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jul 15, 2000 (19:38)", "body": "They began the last leg of the tall ships race today, did they not? That must have been something to see! travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 27, "subject": "places that you've been!", "response_count": 83, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "jgross", "date": "Mon, Oct 19, 1998 (18:03)", "body": "I've been to Austin"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 20, 1998 (00:04)", "body": "Have you been to Tucumcari or Tehachapi?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Oct 20, 1998 (00:59)", "body": "I haven't been to any of those places! Alpamare is a really fun place though - when we have the spring reunion here one year, we must go there. It's a huge swimming complex with tubes and and stuff, partly indoor, partly outdoor - about 45min by train in Pf\ufffdffikon. We had a great time. First you get the easy rides where you sit in an inflated ring that carries you along a kind of strong current. Then there are really tame tubes that we didn't enjoy so much. And then there are the tubes for experienced swimmers and athletes - not in our cla s, but we did them nevertheless. These tubes start indoors, and then from time to time you're out in the freezing open air, and they're really really fast. We were so scared we went down together each time, holding on to each other, thinking that if we die, we die together! At one time the tube threw us so powerfully at a bend, we literally sat upside down, and then were spun around so that we were going feet first. Which was horrible! Our heads kept bumbing against each other's, and we were YELLING ll the way down. But of course we went again - and the same thing happened! But be kept going for three hours. Then we went to the restaurant, each had three hamburgers, a salad, ice cream and coke, and slept in the train on the way home. It was great!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "jgross", "date": "Tue, Oct 20, 1998 (01:53)", "body": "I walked past that place and thought there mighta been something going on in there. Now I know to bring my swimsuit when I happen by again. Ok, ok, I won't forget my headgear either."}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct 21, 1998 (03:41)", "body": "Headgear?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 21, 1998 (11:16)", "body": "Wow, this sounds a lot like Schlitterbahn in San Marcos, Texas! What time of year is best to go there, what months?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (03:35)", "body": "Any month is brilliant. But the best time I've ever had there was on in the middle of a snowy winter - then when you hit the open air sections in the tube, it really takes your breath away, it's so cold. It's great! They've got over 2 km's of tubes there."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 22, 1998 (05:52)", "body": "This place is open all year round? I thought it would only be open in the summers. How cold does it get in the winter? Water sports in the Winter. Is this like a big amusement park?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct 23, 1998 (01:17)", "body": "Oh, yes, all year. They heat the water in winter. And it's got a huge pool with waves. The last time I went in winter we had a huge snow storm. Imagine hitting an open air section with snow slapping you in the face - an incredible feeling. Just short of a heart attack, in fact, but I ADORE it. The consequences, of course, is an unshakable cold - but it's more than worth it. Yes it's a pretty huge indoor water park. Brilliant."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 23, 1998 (09:03)", "body": "Do a lot of kids go there?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Oct 25, 1998 (01:30)", "body": "Yes - four and up. It's a very popular family thing. Do you ever go to those places, Terry? And what interesting places have you been? Tell me about the places where you have houses."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Oct 25, 1998 (12:56)", "body": "Places I've been: Vancouver, BC Canada, a fascinating city, I went there for a week and felt like this would be a place I would like to explore again. Wonder, Oregon, is a tiny town in Southern Oregon where I met my first wife and where I helped run a little domed health food store. It was in the center of an area known for it's backwoods hippie communities and pristine streams and woods. There was plenty of drama in my life then, romance, adventure, and the feeling of confronting nature raw. Honduras - I spent a month there courtesy of the Louisville Courier Journal on a mission to take color slides of the country. I remember vivid colors and friendly, smiling people. I went from bustling big cities to remote jungles. Boulder, Colorado - a place similar to Austin with mountains all around. St. Louis, Missouri - where I grew up. Noted for it's great zoo, art museum, \"climatron\", and baseball team. Washington U is a great feeling campus area. Chautauqua, Illinois - a place where we spent wondrous, childhood summers. Big, 700' tall bluffs, springs, tennis courts, roque courts, baseball fields, a big swimming pool, the boardwalk and the \"community sing and movies\" outdoor movie theater are memories that stick out. Minneapolis, MN - where I worked as a city planner and started some yoga and tai chi classes. I love the North Country, home of my forefathers. Louisville, KY - my first job out of college as a city planner. I lived in a gorgeous area of town called St. James Court and there was a big fountain right in front of my house in the middle of the street. It was a bit of an artists quarter. Maxine was my girlfriend during this period. Douglas, Wyoming - where I worked as a roughneck. I froze my butt of in subzero temperatures out on the gigantic oil drilling platforms where we drilled thousands of feet in to the ground. Bolinas, CA - a little Peyton Place type of town North of San Francisco where rock stars lived (Grateful Dead, Starship) and all kinds of poets, writers, musicians, etc. congregated. It bordered the Pt. Reyes National Seashore. I lived with a lady named Gail and her four kids during one era and in an earlier period I lived with Cynthia and her son Shon in a converted barn. Occidental, CA - where I owned a home amidst 10 acres of redwoods and creeks. The town was known for it's quaintness and the four Italian restaurants and a great little breakfast place. It was just a few miles over the ridge to the Pacific Ocean. I had a brief romance with Salli Rasberry and during an earlier period lived with Jane at a nearby Russian River town called Guerneville. I remember a big, disastrous flood there. My houses are in Cedar Creek and Austin. http://www.spring.net/~house"}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Oct 26, 1998 (02:42)", "body": "Wow! You're lucky to have such a huge country just waiting to be explored. Were you a hippy, Terry?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct 26, 1998 (06:21)", "body": "For a while, you could say that."}, {"response": 15, "author": "jgross", "date": "Mon, Oct 26, 1998 (11:04)", "body": "I'll just say it for a little while. Riette, were you ever a hippie for a short while? How many times in autumn were you a hippie, Autumn? How soon before ya began to hate the Haight?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct 28, 1998 (01:27)", "body": "No, that was before my time. But Mum was a real hippie at some point when she lived in Cape Town - she showed us all her cool outfits, and I think she's really really cool; she'll be fifty next year, but she still looks totally stunning in those outfits. And what precisely did hippies do, Terry?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 28, 1998 (07:38)", "body": "Do you have any pics you could post about your hippie mum and her outfits? It's hard to be \"precise\" about the 60s hippie movement. It was centered around San Francisco and the Haight Street area and became the consciousness of a generation. Some of us were \"out to save the world\" and we went on bus caravans around the country in converted schoolbuses and started up big community farms and went to third world countries and tried to raise their standard of living. For thers, it was mostly rock and roll and dope. But I think there was a certain idealism around ending war and entering into a peaceful era that has had a good effect on the times."}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Oct 31, 1998 (15:46)", "body": "Unfortunately I don't have proper pictures of my mum - she hates having her picture taken. But she is a truly beautiful woman, not only because of her appearance, but because she is just so, I don't know. We always call her 'borrelmamma' - that means 'bubble mum'. And that's what she is. She says when she was a hippie they marched for free love and peace, and slept in the open, and laid every person on the grounds! It all sounds very cool and noble to me; if there were a hippie movement now, I'd defenitely join, kids and all! I'm afraid the closest I've ever come to a sort of half noble rebellion was not a very glamorous affair. It happened on a school military parade day - Wednesday - when I was sixteen, and hoisted the South African flag upside down on purpose when we were ordered to ignore the new independent black government that had come to power the day before. Can't say it made much of a difference. The other kids didn't know I was trying to express something, thought I was merely being silly, so they laughed. And he teachers were mostly fascist, headed by my father, so all it was good for, was a month-long expulsion from school, ten blows with a stick on my backside in front of the whole school, which pretty much opened it up, and then became infected so that I was unable to sit for about six weeks! ha-ha! That was the first time it dawned on me that shutting up is sometimes a wiser strategy than wanting it all said and out in the open. Pity I never learned ot apply that lesson, huh?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov  1, 1998 (21:21)", "body": "I'm glad you were brave and went against the grain and stood up for your beliefs in an era when this was unheard of, Ree. Good for you!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov  2, 1998 (01:02)", "body": "Oh God, no, there was nothing admirable about it! I mean it didn't change one bit of how ANYTHING worked - where's the use in that? So, Terry, do you have those hippie outfits? Are you going to wear them at the spring party next year?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov  2, 1998 (07:12)", "body": "By outfits, you mean blue jeans and a t shirt, that's what I wear every day. I haven't changed what I wear in over 20 years really."}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov  2, 1998 (10:38)", "body": "Except for underpants, I hope! No, just kidding! And why should you - jeans and t shirt's my favourite too. I'm not much of a fashion gal. I prefer being comfortable to looking smart."}, {"response": 23, "author": "osceola", "date": "Mon, Nov  9, 1998 (13:28)", "body": "I've been to Reno, Chicago, Fargo Minnesota Buffalo, Toronto, Winslow Sarasota Wichita, Tulsa, Ottawa Oklahoma Tampa, Panama, Mattawa La Paloma Bangor, Baltimore, Salvador Amarillo, Umadilla I've been everywhere, man ...."}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov  9, 1998 (13:58)", "body": "Fargo, you betcha'"}, {"response": 25, "author": "osceola", "date": "Mon, Nov  9, 1998 (17:56)", "body": "I've been to Boston, Charleston, Dayton Louisiana Washington, Houston, Kingston Texarkana Monterrey, Fairbanks, Santa Fe Tallapoosa Glen Rock, Black Rock, Little Rock Oscaloosa Tennessee, Chicopee Spirit Lake, Grand Lake, Devil's Lake, Crater Lake For Pete's sake I've been everywhere, man...."}, {"response": 26, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Nov  9, 1998 (22:48)", "body": "\"...Aruba, Jamaica, oh I want to take ya...\" :-) (Not Glen Rock, PA??)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov 10, 1998 (02:30)", "body": "\ufffdclearing throat importantly, preparing for show-off\ufffd I've been ta: Lots of cool places in South Africa, like Cape Town Jo'burg Durban Krugerpark Lots of cool places in Namibia like, Fish River Canyon Swakopmund Moon Valley Petrified forests Sossusvlei Etosha Park Caprivi I've been to Botswana and Angola and lots of cool places in England, like London York Durham several castles, including Bambourgh Scotland, staying in a castle right by the sea cool places in Switzerland like The Jungfrau Davos Montreux Luzerne Interlaken Morge Geneva Basel Biel Chateau d'uex Brunnen Locarno Lugano etc. etc. wine tasting in Italy cool places in Germany like Munich Berlin Frankfurt Mannheim Halle D\ufffdsseldorf cool places in Holland like Amsterdam Den Haag Nijmwegen cool places in France like Paris Cyprus Turkey Greece Finland shall I go on???"}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 10, 1998 (07:34)", "body": "Go on, your on a roll (show off!)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "osceola", "date": "Tue, Nov 10, 1998 (13:02)", "body": "Way to go, Riette. I've been to Louisville, Nashville, Knoxville Jacksonville, Watsonville Pittsfield, Springfield, Bakersfield Shreveport Hackensack, Cadillac, Fond du Lac Davenport Idaho, Jellico Argentina, Diamatina, Pasadena, Catalina See what I mean? I've been everywhere, man."}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 10, 1998 (13:19)", "body": "Jellico and Diamatina? Say where?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "osceola", "date": "Tue, Nov 10, 1998 (13:59)", "body": "I don't know. It's from a song lyric."}, {"response": 32, "author": "osceola", "date": "Tue, Nov 10, 1998 (17:19)", "body": "I've been to Pittsburgh, Parkersburg, Gravelsburg Colorado Eldersburg, Rexburg, Vicksburg El Dorado Larramore, Atmore Alaska, Shasta, Nebraska, Opa-locka Vera Cruz, Waterloo, Kalamazoo Kansas City, Sioux City, Cedar City, Dodge City What a pity. I've been everywhere, man."}, {"response": 33, "author": "osceola", "date": "Tue, Nov 10, 1998 (18:38)", "body": "OK, my last few posts were the lyrics of \"I've Been Everywhere,\" which I heard on Johnny Cash's \"Unchained\" CD. It's an old song. Anyway, I've gotten in the rythm of it and now have my own lyrics -- and have been to most of these places. I've been to Smithville, Jonesville, Brownsville Tallahassee Catskill, Gainesville, Thomasville Waxahatchie Osceola, Pensacola, Mineola Syracuse, Prairie View Platte, City, Rapid City, Bay City, Rock City Cleveland, Levelland The highway never ends. I've been to Peoria, Astoria, Emporia Hartford Lauderdale, Riverdale, Glendale Rockford Daytona, Ozona St. Pete, St. Paul Beaver Falls Seen it all. Join in...."}, {"response": 34, "author": "osceola", "date": "Tue, Nov 10, 1998 (18:40)", "body": "I've been to Fort Worth Never heard of Colin Firth"}, {"response": 35, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Nov 13, 1998 (22:11)", "body": "(LOL!!)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (04:28)", "body": "ha-ha!! Yesterday I added the Rhine falls (from the train window doesn't count for me)."}, {"response": 37, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Mar 25, 1999 (16:45)", "body": "hmmm...I wonder if reading everyone else's posts counts for me? haven't been many places except the southeastern United States..."}, {"response": 38, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Mar 31, 1999 (10:02)", "body": "Wer, your vicarious experiences count. Don't discount those webcams, either! I check in on several South African watering holes every day, as well as the South Pole, and I don't have to worry about ebola or gore-tex."}, {"response": 39, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Apr  5, 1999 (00:24)", "body": "sometimes, Autumn, I wonder if those vicarious experiences contribute to my life negative things...probably never know, huh?"}, {"response": 40, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Apr 11, 1999 (16:33)", "body": "You mean the vicarious enjoyment is interfering with your enjoyment of reality?"}, {"response": 41, "author": "wer", "date": "Sun, Apr 11, 1999 (21:50)", "body": "don't know that interfering is the right word..."}, {"response": 42, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Apr 12, 1999 (19:55)", "body": "What is the right word? Hindering? Please explain."}, {"response": 43, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Apr 14, 1999 (23:44)", "body": "and we just hit major malfunction of mine #24... the inability to explain what I mean... maybe something along the lines of \"substituting itself\" ???"}, {"response": 44, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr 15, 1999 (10:32)", "body": "try drawing pictures... (just a suggestion... you could ask Zoe for help!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Apr 15, 1999 (10:49)", "body": "I've always wanted to be somewhere else, but never got there. Where I was, I hardly ever felt like staying. Maybe Wer knows what I'm talking about. (I couldn't even go and say \"Hey! I'm running off to Europe!\", since I already am here...)"}, {"response": 46, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr 15, 1999 (11:07)", "body": "you could run off to Canada!"}, {"response": 47, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Apr 15, 1999 (11:40)", "body": "Actually, I like it where I am, now. Sad little content old man. But I've made my peace with things, more or less. And my life is ok, I'm happy with it most of the time nowadays. Some people say I smile a lot. What else can you do? Some people say I look worried and desperate sometimes, though. I only hope these two groups never meet..."}, {"response": 48, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr 15, 1999 (11:57)", "body": "sheer chaos would be the ultimate result, no? .ok oops! a little to fast for myself there!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, Apr 17, 1999 (06:40)", "body": ";=}"}, {"response": 50, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Sep 30, 1999 (13:58)", "body": "Apart from places in Britain (where I live), I've lived in a bush village in The Gambia West Africa (for a year, - yes, in a mud hut!), and Senegal. I've just come back from Mali. I went on a school journey many years ago to Zermatt in Switzerland - fantastic. Love to return sometime."}, {"response": 51, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 30, 1999 (16:01)", "body": "Hey, Maggie! Great to have you here! Tell us more about yourself."}, {"response": 52, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 1999 (13:28)", "body": "what do you want to know?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 1999 (14:38)", "body": "How's the bank account? Marriage status? Please post a pic in the Spring Gallery... Maggie, EVERYTHING!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 1999 (14:40)", "body": "Or ANYTHING! Anything you feel like sharing, that is."}, {"response": 55, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 1999 (14:50)", "body": "While she thinks...places I've been: The entire Eastern Seaboard from Virginia to Maine New England West Virginia Tennessee Kentucky Ohio colorado New Mexico Nevada California Seattle, Washington Britain (Cornwall, Wales, England, Scotland) Hawaii (Molokai, Oahu, Kauai, Hawaii)"}, {"response": 56, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 1999 (15:25)", "body": "And for me: This way. Some other place. Dat way. (Mostly dat way, though.)"}, {"response": 57, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 1999 (15:26)", "body": "Oh, and of course I've been: about."}, {"response": 58, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 1999 (15:35)", "body": "One thing about you, dear Alexander..You are specifically inspecific..."}, {"response": 59, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Oct  2, 1999 (02:02)", "body": "Personally I think he's a little ... confused .... \ufffdsweet smile\ufffd Maggie, stuff like where in England you live, what you do for a living, and, oh, just any sort of stuff that one tells when you meet a person/persons. Eg., my husband is half Scottish, half English, and it is one of my favourite countries in the world - so we've already got something to talk about. My favourite part of England is the Lakes, and someday I'm going to live in Kendal and drink rose-flavoured hot chocolate for a living. What's your favourite place in the world?"}, {"response": 60, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Oct  2, 1999 (05:35)", "body": "Ok Here goes. I live in High Wycombe in Buckinghamshire, which is almost exactly halfway between Oxford and London. I'm a Londoner by birth but I'd hate to live there now. I've lived in Kent and on the scottish border. I'm currently studying for PhD in education, looking at the use of local languages in African schools. We lived in The Gambia for almost five years, working mainly on language survey, but also on the Gambia National languages Project a basic education programme, developing teaching materials in one of the national languages (more languages to come later). I home-schooled my kids for two years then they went to mission boarding school. I have a husband, who is very supportive, and two grown up girls. I play the recorder and love making things. My current craft is 'glass painting' greetings cards using old OHP slides. I'm just about to start French classes to get ready to go back to Mali next October and hopefully cope better in French than I did this year! By the way, I loved Riette's Namibia pictures on the other board. I've made the desert one my wallpaer. That's enough for starters. Maggie"}, {"response": 61, "author": "Elena", "date": "Sat, Oct  2, 1999 (09:51)", "body": "Places I\ufffdve been: Finland all over the place, at the moment I\ufffdm in Karkkila Sweden: Stockholm & surroundings Denmark: Copenhagen, Roskilde, K\u00f6ge etc. And: Leningrad,Tallin, London, Amsterdam, Paris, Versailles, val de Loire, Chamonix, Lisboa, Albufeira, Prague, Brussels, Bruges, Hamburg, Hannover, Berlin (west), Heidelberg, Sardegna, Corsica (Bonifacio), Luzern, Genova, Rimini, Ravenna, Pisa, Rome, Florence, St. Margherita Ligure, Milano, Venice, Cairo, Alexandria, Jerusalem, Greece: many different islands, Kenya,Tanzania, Maldives, Malaysia (Langkawi & Kuala Lumpur), Bali"}, {"response": 62, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Oct  2, 1999 (13:02)", "body": "Cool! Maggie, your project in Africa sounds fabulous. In Namibia there has been an interesting change in the schooling system since the beginning of Independence in 1989. Before, when schools were still segregated, all students received education in their mother tongue; the difference in quality of course, being that white students HAD to attend schools and could do so for free, and only those black students who could afford it could go to black schools where staff was underpaid. When Independence came, Eng ish was made the national language, even though few people speak it as a first language, but the main ethnical languages like Afrikaans, German, Herero and Ovambo were made into optional subjects to take Higher Grade exams in. Although it meant that there was a huge failing rate in the first several years, I think it was an excellent move. It has levelled things out between black and white pupils, since both had to learn to write a high standard of English, and has enabled them to communicate in a langu ge universally spoken, without having to compromise their mothertongue. Now, when I go back and meet people in pubs, every second one, regarding of their skin colour, has been abroad - 10 years ago that was UNHEARD of. How does this work in other African countries? And did you enjoy your years in the Gambia? I think Africa crawls under one's skin, and stays in your blood; I spent my whole life there until I was 18, and have been living in Switzerland for almost 7 years now, but I will always consider myself Namibian/African. Your crafts sound interesting too. Did you see there's an Art Conference? In there you'll find a topic called 'The Gallery'. If ever you feel like posting some of the stuff you do for us to see and talk about, just scan me a picture through, and I'll ask Marcia to put it up."}, {"response": 63, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (05:52)", "body": "Yes, Africa does get into the blood! My youngest (22) is now talking about trekking through West Africa and wants to show her boyfriend where she grew up. The kids found living in the village (in Gambia) difficult. I think more for the communication problems rather than the living problems. Its funny, you adapt to the 'privations' ( water from the well, outside pit toilet/washing place, no electricity) easier than the communication/world view gap. At least that's what I found as an adult coming into th situation. The girls were thirteen and ten at the time. Hannah, the youngest adapted much more easily than the older one. I think it would have been different if they'd been born there. They went to boarding school in Senegal during term time. We were adopted by a village compound (even to being given genealogies) which made a huge difference, particularly to me as I was often on my own during the day when my husband was travelling to town to work on the Mandinka dictionary. Did you live in town or village in Namibia, Riette? We found a huge difference between them in Gambia. Oh, in my 'where I've been list I forgot Cameroon and Dallas, Texas! We did 'boot camp' in Cameroon - where we were dumped as a family in a village for a month. Quite traumatic at first (that's British understatement!), Hannah (then 8) sat and cried for two hours after we'd been dumped. I guess it broke the ice because the family we were staying with were fantastic about it. We hardly spoke French and they only spoke Ewondo. At one point we had sixteen people living in the house with us, including two omen and their children in our girls room. The only private place was my kitchen (there's a rule that a woman's kitchen is a no go area) so we had the 'loo' in there, and cooked, washed etc. We had to go a kilometre for clean water from a spring, half a kilometre down the road and then down a steep bank and a walk. It took all four of us over an hour to fetch water twice a day. I found I could carry two buckets, but only manage two half buckets of water up the steep slope. Hannah, being Hannah, alwa s insisted on managing her half bucket on her head once we got to the road. The washing place (bodies and clothes) was another long walk in a different direction. Women and girls had a different set time from the men and boys to go to the washing place. As we went along to the place we had to shout 'we're coming, get out of the water or we'll see you'. Sometimes we had to wait for the old men to get out of the water. Girls with us would go through the bushes sending out all the young boys who'd hidden to watch us bathe! As you can see the memories are still fresh."}, {"response": 64, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (08:35)", "body": "Wew! Sounds like you've really seen the tough side. You're right: there are huge differences between living in the city, in a town or in a village - as well as huge differences between villages. In some villages the people never learn to trust strangers, and in others they are accepted like family. I grew up on my grandfather's farm, which was on the border of Hereroland. For 2 Herero villages about 80 kms away, he was basically the only medical service available. The one village was Okakarara and he other was Okatjipowisa. Both extremely poor villages. So each week we had to drive there, see to the sick, and take them extra food. In Okakarara they called my grandfather 'Tatti' (father), and gave us kids rides on the donkey carts, gave us brilliant toys that they made themselves - like we were their relatives. In Okatjipowisa they never trusted us, even though my grandfather came every week for almost 40 years until he died. That was weird, because the 2 villages were only about 10kms apart. It was probably more difficult for your girls coming to Africa so late. I was born there, and didn't know hot baths and house toilets until I was about 12 - which was when my grandfather built a bathroom and toilet in the house. Before then we had to wash under a tap outside, summer and winter, and pee in an out-loo. There was nothing to it. In the beginning when we had all the fancy new facilities I sometimes forgot to use them, and even 'rebelled' against the decadence of it! Only until the next wi ter though! ha-ha! But, like you say, things can be really tough out there. It really is still a case of man battling against nature in his everyday existence. There was never much money, our only toys were those that the hereros made for us, I had 3 dresses, 3 pairs of knickers and one pair of shoes - that was the limit. I loved it, because without money there was nothing to worry about; it was a totally free existence. Nobody told me what to do or where to go, I could see the horizon every time I opened a window or s epped outside; in summer we almost always slept under the stars. I wouldn't trade that for anything in the world. I notice with my little girls though (they're 3 and 4) - they love going, but when the water is brown, they worry about it, and it takes alot of persuasion to get them into the bath; when the toilet makes funny noises, they get scared. It's just a different life; I can't expect them to take to it as I did, and sometimes that's hard, because I think there is so much to learn out there, so much to appreciate. I regret not being able to offer them what I got out of the experience, because over here life is one luxury after the other, no matter how determined one is about not spoiling them."}, {"response": 65, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (11:47)", "body": "I think the thing is that they will get different things out of the experience. Often that won't be apparent until later. What will be interesting is to see how their relationship with Namibia develops as they get older and you keep going back. What has surprised me, talking to our girls now as adults, is how little they remember of our life before Africa. Despite the difficulties at times they both seem positive about the experiences they had there, and I think they really did gain something from going with us. They are both encouraging about us going back again (once I've finished the study programme we hope to go back to Mali for a four year stint - if the French is good enough). We've decided we're too old now to go back properly into village living. Frankly I haven't the stamina required."}, {"response": 66, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (17:51)", "body": "Wow, Maggie, I applaud what you've been doing. It's the experience of a lifetime! You and Riette have \"lived\" more than I ever will."}, {"response": 67, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (21:06)", "body": "I've been to Amarillo where I ate an armadillo Been to Talahassee got to know a local lassie Been to Birmingham No, not England--Alabam Spent some time on Maui where the herb is known as \"wowie\" Made it to Tacoma breathed the pulp mills' foul aroma Took the turnpike in Ohio and a small boat on the Bayou Caught a marlin off of Kona Overheated in Pomona Saw the flour mills in St. Paul got lost at the nearby mall Heard the outlaws down in Austin ate some baked beans while in Boston Lost my money down in Reno went to Napa, drank some vino Put the Ritz on in New York Dined on Iowa's corn-fed pork Rode a storm out in Key Largo and was snowed in north of Fargo Almost got hanged in Missouri But I didn't (thank the jury) walked the gulf shore in Mobile cursed a Vegas roulette wheel Felt the heat in Corpus Christi San Francisco's nights were misty Spotted stars while in L.A. ate some jack in Monterey Caught some king crabs in Alaska Took a swim in Lake Itasca Joined a march in Tuscaloosa Took a train ride to Azusa Bought a new car in Detroit but it broke down in Beloit drank an ice tea in Long Island got so drunk, thought it was Thailand Skinny dipped in Walden Pond got arrested, posted bond had a bar brawl in Topeka drifted west, stayed in Eureka Now I'm back in Hilo town where I plan to settle down. --John Burnett, copyright 1999"}, {"response": 68, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (21:17)", "body": "...and I'll be you have not been arrested in years, now! *lol* Maggie, so consider sending pictures to Riette and she will get them to me and I will post them for you - or you can send them directly to me at marci@aloha.net (hard to tell I live in Hawaii with that Email address!) How exciting your life sounds to have been - but I think I have been \"civilized\" for so long I'd rather read about it than experience it now! Thanks for sharing an incredibly full life with us!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (21:39)", "body": "Maggie, your story is fascinating and so is your's Ree. I wonder what the differences are in the history of relations with whites in those two Herero villages...obviously their pasts must be vastly different to make one open and trusting and the other suspicious."}, {"response": 70, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Oct  4, 1999 (08:54)", "body": "Exactly. During the late 1800's and early 1900's there was a terrible war raging between the occupying Germans and the Hereros, which the Germans of course won with their superior weapons - the whole region is full of grave-yards. I think much of the animosity that we experienced in Okakipowisa had something to do with that - the people had basically no contact with whites, and the only contact they knew about was probably from stories about the war told them by their parents and grandparents. Maggie, I have to say that, even though I love Africa more than anything, I'm not sure I could live there permanently anymore. I get terribly upset about the poverty, especially since I'm on holiday when I go there; I worry about whether the bus or the train will be more convenient for travelling, whereas ALOT of people there worry about where their next meal will come from. I'd love to go back to work there, especially with kids, but I couldn't just live and see cool things anymore. The distance has iven me a different perspective; no matter how close the friendships we had with the Hereros on the farm, at the end of the day I still grew up in the priveleged white position. I find that hard to live with, and there is terrible guilt every time I go back. I want to wait until the kids are in their teens, like yours were, then take them down during their summer holidays, to go help out in one of the aid organizations; I don't want Namibia to just be a holiday resort for them - somehow the idea of b inging them up shielded from the tough side frightens me. I feel they will gain something more lasting, and something that will add to their personalities and the way they see things if they can be confronted with both sides when they're old enough. I guess I just don't want them ending up thinking of themselves as tourists in a country to which they partly belong. The way your children see Africa now - I think it is clear evidence of what you have given them with those experiences; that's how I want t to be with mine. I envy you for going back for a year; I wish I was in a position right now to do that. I know little about Mali - could you tell us more? Next year I'm going to go see Kenya, possibly with my brother. I'm really excited about that, but with the kids being so young, I'll probably not stay for more than 2 weeks."}, {"response": 71, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Oct  4, 1999 (18:48)", "body": "Fascinating, Ree...How can you have packed so much into those few years of your life so far?! How fascinating! It is always easier to experience less than luxurious surroundings as a child...I do not think I would like doing any of these things you and Maggie have been doing at my adult age. Innocence in bliss, indeed"}, {"response": 72, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (10:10)", "body": "I guess you're right. Now that I have money and material comfort - it really feels like I've lost something. I don't know if Maggie feels that as well. Sometimes it feels like I'm bringing my kids up in a prison. There are so many rules here, they can't just RUN when we get out of the door, because there are cars everywhere, they always have to wear shoes, they always have to wear clothes; somehow I find that a shame. If I could I would have brought my kids up in the bush; childhood lasts for such short time, one shouldn't have to spend it in chains. Even if those chains come in the shape of pretty toys. One HAS so much, but DOES so little. Every few weeks it gets me so bad, I get on a train with the kids, and just go away for a couple of days, to stay in some obscure village, but it's not the same. There are still time tables and breakfast times and stuff that are restrictive. Then again, perhaps the kind of freedom that I want, and that I knew for the first part of my life has it's own rest ictions in that it doesn't equip one to live with the way things are nowadays. I guess there's just a price to pay with everything. In every situation you have losses and gains; which means the same thing for everyone, whatever the situation in the end, and the way to inner freedom for me goes something like: don't just cope with it, DEAL with it. ."}, {"response": 73, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (13:13)", "body": "I'm really enjoying this discussion!! I think Riette's right that after experiencing life in the raw so to speak you see everything differently. I have been on the guilt trips at times, but I have to admit they don't last, probably because I feel I am doing something however little. Recently my research partner from Mali visited to give a paper in Oxford. He stayed with us for his first and last nights. I was really apprehensive before he came. We live in a very modest terraced house (i.e. joined to lots of others) in a social housing a ea. In local terms here we are not well off, but in Malian terms we're millionaires! I was really worried that Yalla visiting us would change the relationship. It didn't. You know it's so nice to be able to talk about all this without feeling you're boring everybody! Marcia, I have got some pictures of Mali but I don't know how to send them in by email. I have a scanner. What do I do? You know I think that at 40 odd I must really be mad to think about going back to Africa. But at the same time I'm scared I'm excited too!! Riette, I think some of the feelings you describe are what some call being a 'third culture kid'. It's a sort of not belonging in any one place. I can certainly see that in my girls now even though they're independant of us. For you it's been a bit the other way round Africa - Europe - Africa, but I guess the principle's the same. It's almost like being part of a world culture rather than one specific one, and it's something others who haven't had that experience find difficult to understand. John, I loved your very graphic poem about all those places you've been to."}, {"response": 74, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (16:08)", "body": "great poem John... wow Maggie... you're quite the world explorer as well (Ree-head being the first one I'd 'met') and Alexander... Mr. 'dat way... haven't you also been to 'over there' and 'down yonder'?"}, {"response": 75, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (17:56)", "body": "Maggie, to send the pictures to me, just locate where they are in your computer. Then when you are ready to send them, attach them to your email (does Yahoo email have this option?) by clicking on the attach button then finding the pics you want to send (one at a time usually works best), clicking on it and it is attached to your email. I'll send you one so you can see how it looks."}, {"response": 76, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct  6, 1999 (13:00)", "body": "Or if that doesn't work, I'll send you my address, you can throw the photos in the mail, I'll scan them, send them to Marcia, and send the photos back. Maggie, I think it's fabulous that you don't put an age-limit on the stuff you do - that takes real guts. I have a friend here who is 76 - older than my grandma - and she still travels all over the world, seeing things, experiencing things; still as excited as a child over every trip. That's how I want to be - I've never really seen the point of 'growing up' in that sense."}, {"response": 77, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Oct  6, 1999 (14:34)", "body": "I've sent a trial photo to Marcia of our village house in the Gambia. I couldn't get it smaller than 750k - any ideas of getting the file size smaller. I think that was at 150dpi. I'm new at this."}, {"response": 78, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct  6, 1999 (14:40)", "body": "Did it for you, my dear!!! Here is Maggie's home away from home:"}, {"response": 79, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct  6, 1999 (14:43)", "body": "Maggie, if you have plenty of pictures to show and tales to tell, may I suggest your very own topic? We can do that for you! Say the word and I will create \"Gambia\" for you!"}, {"response": 80, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct  6, 1999 (14:51)", "body": "Please check new Topic http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/travel/39/new"}, {"response": 81, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (04:38)", "body": "It's FABULOUS, Maggie!! So green!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (08:09)", "body": "Wow. Right in the rain forest..."}, {"response": 83, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (12:26)", "body": "I'm working on some info and pics for Gambia and Mali. So keep a look out for them. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 28, "subject": "Meet me in St. Louie, louie!  St. Louis, Missouri, USA", "response_count": 21, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  2, 1998 (08:14)", "body": "Overheard on the WELL: Topic 1 [homeowners]: Introductions (or: Home is where you hang your hat.) #257 of 259: Fawn Fitter (fsquared) Tue Dec 1 '98 (17:37) 5 lines Dave! Congratulations! Karen, I grew up in St. Louis and I know the neighborhood you're referring to. Next time I'm visiting the parental units, I'll make a driveby and admire. Topic 1 [homeowners]: Introductions (or: Home is where you hang your hat.) #258 of 259: Karen G. Freeman (karen-golden) Tue Dec 1 '98 (20:10) 1 line Oh, say. Gimme a call. I'd love to meet you. Topic 1 [homeowners]: Introductions (or: Home is where you hang your hat.) #259 of 259: home spring home (terry) Wed Dec 2 '98 (04:55) 2 lines I also was born and raised in St. Louis, Fawn and Karen. I went to Bayless High School in Affton."}, {"response": 2, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Dec  2, 1998 (08:14)", "body": "Several members of my husband's family emigrated to St. Louie (that's just how they say it, too) from France in the 50s and 60s. We haven't been since '96 ourselves. They all live in Creve Coeur, and my husband's uncle is the president of the St. Louis-Lyon, France sister city thing. He's the \"diplomat\" that coordinated the whole exchange and was recently awarded France's \"Palmes Academiques\" by the French ambassador. Great zoo."}, {"response": 3, "author": "jgross", "date": "Wed, Dec  2, 1998 (08:14)", "body": "I once met my daughter at that zoo. She didn't recognize me cuz she was only 17. I introduced myself as an ape. She was lookin' at the apes, so I went over beside them and waved and said, \"Hey, hi, I'm Jim, your dad. Just call me Dad.\" She pretended like she was ignoring me, I think. But it was still one a those special occasions I'll nevah fergit. Doesn't hurt to be with yer family ever once in a while.....right?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Dec  2, 1998 (08:14)", "body": "Jim, is it true you like following me around? :-)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "jgross", "date": "Wed, Dec  2, 1998 (08:14)", "body": "It's one of the most fun things I've ever done. And it's easy. And it's pretty rewarding. A French ambassador once gave me 300 dollars for telling where you were. I wasn't supposed to tell you. But he's not alive anymore, so I'm not worried. He was crushed in a swarm of movie actresses who wanted to be on his TV political discussion show.....it broadcasts out of Lyon, btw. Mink Stole, Divine, Edith Massey, Mary Vivian Pearce, Cookie Mueller, Anne Heche, Charles Grodin's wife, Pam Grier, Mary Woronov, Drew Barrymore, Judy Davis, Demi Moore were all part of the swarm. None of 'em were indicted. I think I don't know who she was who was dressed up as Divine. That Divine impersonator took over as host of the TV show, though."}, {"response": 6, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Dec  7, 1998 (18:25)", "body": "I spent a week in St. Louis in November of 1995 (and I lived there for a short time as I child). I was amazed at the number of smokers in the city. Perhaps coming from Austin (where they had recently started to disallow smoking in restaurants) it just seemed excessive. I skated around the park with the art museum and all the squirrels. I didn't like the zoo at all. Only two habitat 'exhibits' the rest of the animals were crammed into a tiny little area. Most disturbing I think was the organtuan. He just looked and looked and looked into you. A huge intelligent active being and sentenced to a life behind plexiglass. I really was disturbed by it all. The Denver zoo is worse in some ways. The big cats spend most of their days in this aquarium sized tank and take rotations in the out of doors. sorry to go off on a tangent there... The arch was fun, the ride up in those rickety old shell-like cradle things."}, {"response": 7, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Dec  7, 1998 (18:34)", "body": "The most smokers I have ever seen per capita had to be Vermont. Alcohol sales, New Hampshire. Guess there's not much to do when winter sets in."}, {"response": 8, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Dec  7, 1998 (18:38)", "body": "Having never smoked a cigarette in my life, I fathom a guess that perhaps it keeps one warm??!?!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Dec  7, 1998 (20:18)", "body": "Well, no, not really. But it's something to do when it's too cold to set foot outside during their bitter, darker (northern latitude) winter. Incredible suicide rate as well."}, {"response": 10, "author": "jgross", "date": "Mon, Dec  7, 1998 (20:37)", "body": "I killed myself several times when I was in New Hampshire. Had to find out if cats were the only ones who have 9 lives. They're definitely not (the only ones). But they sure move fast when the food comes out. And before the food comes out, Jah will knock things over.... communicating to me that I'm ignoring his appetite. People were dying right and left all around me in Vermont. They must've reached number 9 (or....whatever it was, there number was up). Wish I coulda done something."}, {"response": 11, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (11:45)", "body": "Tahja pats my mouth with her paw to tell me she's hungry Rafikki cries and follows me around (always managing to stay BETWEEN my feet somehow)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (16:52)", "body": "Sounds like you have cats."}, {"response": 13, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Dec  9, 1998 (18:22)", "body": "We love cats! We love them even more than St. Louis! We love them more than smoking, and suicide!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (13:32)", "body": "we love them in a box we love them in their socks"}, {"response": 15, "author": "PT", "date": "Thu, Dec 10, 1998 (16:31)", "body": "I was going to say that St Louis, smoking, and suicide, aren't exactly on the top of my list."}, {"response": 16, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Dec 12, 1998 (19:47)", "body": "Well then, what's your dream destination?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "PT", "date": "Sun, Dec 13, 1998 (00:10)", "body": "I have always been kind of partial to Nassau, New Providence Island, Bahamas"}, {"response": 18, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Dec 14, 1998 (19:23)", "body": "Hmmmm, don't know if there's a topic for that..."}, {"response": 19, "author": "PT", "date": "Tue, Dec 15, 1998 (12:22)", "body": "I don't think so. There really isn't much to discuss. It is a place you go to get away from the busy, action-packed lifestyle. Once you get used to life in the Bahamas, it is extremely difficult to get upset over missing an appointment, or being a slave to any kind of schedule. It kind of puts life into perspective."}, {"response": 20, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Dec 15, 1998 (22:45)", "body": "Sounds like either heaven or hell, I'm not sure which..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Dec 16, 1998 (16:11)", "body": "It can be hell, until you get comfortable with it. Example: The 9 am bus will probably arrive by 10, almost certainly by 11, for sure by 12. Unless it's late. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 29, "subject": "Business Travel", "response_count": 106, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 12, 1999 (06:13)", "body": "Well, I've got a one day trip to Dallas planned, compliments of IBM. It's an all day Microsoft developers summit. Too bad we don't have any Dallas springeurs that I can think of right now."}, {"response": 2, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Jan 13, 1999 (16:28)", "body": "This is ideal. I will be going back on the road as of Saturday. All over the US and southern Canada, courtesy of the company."}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Jan 13, 1999 (20:40)", "body": "That's great, Tim!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "PT", "date": "Thu, Jan 14, 1999 (11:54)", "body": "It has always been a joke among truckers. We call ourselves professional tourists, and call the dispatcher, travel agent."}, {"response": 5, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jan 15, 1999 (16:43)", "body": "Leaving for San Francisco on Sunday. One week Authorware Attain class in San Ramon. My first business trip (where I have to take a plane!) Be back 1/24!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "jgross", "date": "Fri, Jan 15, 1999 (23:51)", "body": "for a whole week they'll train you how to obtain the clothes of your favorite writers? I'll be flying right underneath your jet in my self-propelled glider (when I pedal the pedals, it makes the wings flap) I'll be back on the 25th (I'll need another day to get from Denver to Austin since my glider won't be able to crest no more on the air currents of a big fat jet) I hope they put some extra effort into showing me how to nick Nick's clothes all the way from San Ramon (remote nicking)....sounds like a pretty fun class cuz I only got 2 sweaters layin' around and I low on bright multicolored socks I bet whenever I do ever read any your poems, Stace, I'll feel uncontrollable urges to nab your afghan......sometimes I drool myself to sleep thinkin' what it'd be like to sneak peeks in your journal while tryin' on yer little (oops....not little) cuddly brassieres"}, {"response": 7, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sat, Jan 16, 1999 (01:25)", "body": "roflmao! Little yet firm Jim..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 16, 1999 (18:58)", "body": "What are you gonna wear Stace?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sat, Jan 16, 1999 (19:16)", "body": "on my breasts or in general?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 17, 1999 (04:28)", "body": "Both."}, {"response": 11, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Jan 17, 1999 (19:09)", "body": "Edith Wharton has a line out which is just smashing."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 18, 1999 (08:24)", "body": "With more emphasis on the breasts than the general plumery, Stace. So ..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jan 23, 1999 (00:08)", "body": "I should check other conferences/topics more often..."}, {"response": 14, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sun, Jan 24, 1999 (19:57)", "body": "*laugh* lots of tight shirts with my 38 triple D bazongas hanging out! Actually I dressed rather smart-like and brought along a couple o blazer/jacket thingamajigers to wear with slacks. The whole event ended up being pretty casual and everyone wore jeans on the last day A really excellent trip... I was offered a job (and wasn't even looking!) by the class instructor! I learned a lot and enjoyed the humidity immensely. I drove over the Bay Bridge, wandered around Golden Gate Park, the Science museum, the Haight and the Castro districts. I ate Fabulous food everywhere I went and had a blast with the public transportation. I stayed w/ B's brother and sister in law for the weekend and they had quite the soiree last night! I met lots of new people and saw lots of new things. The area was physically beautiful and it felt good too!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 25, 1999 (08:04)", "body": "Man what a rush hearing about your great time in SF, I get a contact high just reading this, and I never would have guessed you for a 38-3D! Do you remember any of the names of the places you ate? Did you make it to Chinatown or North Beach?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Jan 25, 1999 (19:46)", "body": "(that's cuz they're not that big Paul!) I ate at... hold on lemme review the cards/receipts and I'll mention them later!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "jgross", "date": "Fri, Jan 29, 1999 (22:52)", "body": "I have them. Rafikki sent them on to Jah. Go figure (I dunno what she was thinking) Ya want them back?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (01:01)", "body": "S. is in Fayetteville, North Carolina this week (Ft. Bragg). The girls are begging him for a souvenir, God knows what he'll bring back from there..."}, {"response": 19, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (01:10)", "body": "hopefully, it won't be contagious..."}, {"response": 20, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (05:16)", "body": "B left today beginning a month of horrendous travel for business... 2/3 - 2/5 Ohio 2/8 - 2/9 Tennesse 2/10 - 2/12 Washington 2/15 - 2/16 Canada not enough time in one place to have any fun but gone too long to spend much time at home."}, {"response": 21, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Feb  6, 1999 (14:57)", "body": "LOL, wer!! (actually turned out to be camouflage pencils) What a screwy travel schedule Stacey, hope you won't be too lonely. :-("}, {"response": 22, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Feb 26, 1999 (10:59)", "body": "okay so it's not MY business we're traveling for but... the next trip is \"dragging\" us to Berlin, Germany for one week, Prauge the next and then off to Venice and Milan and possibly Zurich before flying home from Munich! Ahhh... what a life! I'm quite excited! Not sure what I'll find to eat in Germany but friends have pointed out... \"Who needs to eat, you've got liquid bread!\" anyway, I'll take tons of pictures and scan them in when I get back! BTW, I've become quite the FrontPage Mistress... perhaps in the near future I will simply beg Paul for a password to post my own damn $hit!!! Yea!!!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Feb 26, 1999 (21:51)", "body": "Have a blast, Stacey!! Zurich is my husband's favorite major city."}, {"response": 24, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Feb 26, 1999 (21:54)", "body": "on that suggustion, I htink I will have a blast!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Mar  2, 1999 (21:40)", "body": "htink-htink..."}, {"response": 26, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Mar  2, 1999 (21:41)", "body": "or, maybe I should have posted something else..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Mar  3, 1999 (10:04)", "body": "at least whatever you chose to post, couldn't have possibly been spelled more incorrectly than my post..."}, {"response": 28, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Mar  3, 1999 (16:46)", "body": "either you haven't noticed, or are discreetly(sp?) ignoring what I posted... Paul/Terry, Ray, and/or I will have an account for you set up on access for your stuff when you get back from Europe...so e-mail me the name and password(to start off with) that you want..."}, {"response": 29, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Mar  3, 1999 (17:02)", "body": "what am I ignoring??? will do with the password thingy!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Mar  3, 1999 (17:04)", "body": "oh...nothing... okay!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Mar  3, 1999 (17:16)", "body": "awww... 'cmon, tell me so I don't have to open up my browser!!!!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Mar  3, 1999 (17:52)", "body": "good point...don't know if what I'm doing shows over telnet or not... oh, well..."}, {"response": 33, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Mar  4, 1999 (09:07)", "body": "huh???!?!??!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Mar  4, 1999 (16:12)", "body": "doesn't matter...moment's gone... so, what are you bringing me back from Italy?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Mar  5, 1999 (15:18)", "body": "whaddaya want??? (from Italy!)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Mar  5, 1999 (23:43)", "body": "oh, just find something that screams, \"WER!\""}, {"response": 37, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Mar  5, 1999 (23:43)", "body": "or someone..."}, {"response": 38, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Mar  8, 1999 (14:02)", "body": "i'll see what i can find..."}, {"response": 39, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Mar  9, 1999 (00:19)", "body": "you don't hafta, you know... (keep it cheap, too, otherwise I won't be able to reimburse you all at once)"}, {"response": 40, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Mar 11, 1999 (11:07)", "body": "Stacey, last Time I was in Berlin... (see Berlin Topic! You find it here: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/travel/31 and I hope you'll post all your adventures in Berlin... ;=} )"}, {"response": 41, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Mar 11, 1999 (15:53)", "body": "she will she's like that, you know..."}, {"response": 42, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Mar 11, 1999 (15:56)", "body": "*grin*"}, {"response": 43, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, Mar 31, 1999 (11:00)", "body": "Oh boy, am I excited! I'm going to Northern Germany, with a side-step over to Hamburg, which I'll graciously declare a business trip! We're gonna walk around, maybe meet some superstar-appreciators, and try to make it to a local radio called FSK. Visit a radio show, do some chatting, play some stuff, etc. (if we ever make it on time, that is...). Friday afternoon to Sunday morning - does that count? (Maybe I'll even announce a twelve hour segment to be proper holidays... not a first in this aging decade, ut nearly...)"}, {"response": 44, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Apr  4, 1999 (22:13)", "body": "Wow! My biggest travel plan at the moment is going to Philadelphia for a wedding in 2 weeks (1.5 hours away). Woohoo! No kids!"}, {"response": 45, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Apr  5, 1999 (00:26)", "body": "my biggest travel plans are the ten minute drives to and from work..."}, {"response": 46, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Apr  7, 1999 (10:56)", "body": "Where are you working??"}, {"response": 47, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (01:40)", "body": "LI...that's about how far it is from my house... (it's seven minutes with no traffic and perfect traffic lights... up to twenty minutes with bad traffic...)"}, {"response": 48, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (10:58)", "body": "i thought you quit??????"}, {"response": 49, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (13:12)", "body": "notice is in...I (in theory) work through Mother's Day..."}, {"response": 50, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (13:43)", "body": "ah ha! i get it now... your a short timer... makes getting up and going in even MORE difficult!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (13:48)", "body": "If you quit there, do you retire, too (like me pretty soon)?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (14:00)", "body": "if only...then I could manipulate the Spring full time!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr  8, 1999 (14:45)", "body": "Alexander, are you still chattering about cashing in on that life insurance policy???"}, {"response": 54, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Apr 12, 1999 (14:02)", "body": "Oooops, I wanted to keep mumm about that, right? Well, I'm curious, if my fave Werby kicks the apron at that much-fabled place, which better offer does he have? Just wann know NOW! QUICK! WERBY, YOU MUST TELL ME NOW!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Apr 12, 1999 (19:02)", "body": "the better offer of enjoying each day as opposed to dreading it with all his being..."}, {"response": 56, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Apr 13, 1999 (10:44)", "body": "Hmh. That bad? So, Stacey, will he now retire, or become a freelance-chef (\"Have apron, will travel\")?"}, {"response": 57, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Apr 13, 1999 (12:11)", "body": "i hope he becomes a computer geek!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Apr 13, 1999 (13:43)", "body": "Oh. That exciting. Hmh, but he is already a computer geek, isn't he? He's got so much geekismo, how much geekier could it get? (Dear Philologists of the future, please note the all-time first use of the termini \"geekismo\" and the comparative \"geekier\" above, and credit correctly to Alexander Schuth, Esq. Editor, superstar Thank you very much.)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Apr 13, 1999 (14:12)", "body": "the comparative above has existed for quite some time however, to the best of my knowledge, you have indeed 'discovered' geekismo"}, {"response": 60, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Apr 13, 1999 (14:23)", "body": ";=/ + ;=} !"}, {"response": 61, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Apr 13, 1999 (15:03)", "body": "patent pending??"}, {"response": 62, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Apr 14, 1999 (23:48)", "body": "no better offer... Stace's answer is as close to anything, I guess... so, you think I make a better geek than cook, huh? *sigh*"}, {"response": 63, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Apr 15, 1999 (10:01)", "body": "How excitingly american! To quit a job because you don't like it anymore, can't bear seeing that face again, hate even the bathroom's tiles, whatever - without a better offer in sight! Wow! Well, I don't think about your cooking - pure lack of experience; but from hints around this place, possibly there's a reason behind that honorific \"KitchenManager\"... What do you enjoy more, serving nasty and ignorant eaters and having sore feet, or serving nasty and overexpectant clients and getting a flat butt from sitting all day (with bad eyes to match)?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Apr 15, 1999 (10:36)", "body": "au contraire WER... the samples of your culinary expertise were fantastic HOWEVER, it just seems that finding a comfortable (nurturing?) environment where you can also express your chef talent will be rather difficult to find. And, one added element (thta I would not have added until 6 months ago) better money helps. More travel, less worry. I'm not at all suggesting choosing money over happiness. I am merely suggesting that a new learning curve, in an environment where you've shown talent and interest, might compensate you more fairly both with its working conditions and financial rewards. And, as I have ALWAYS said... life is to short to spend it being unhappy. Find something that makes you happy!"}, {"response": 65, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Apr 15, 1999 (23:16)", "body": ""}, {"response": 66, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Apr 16, 1999 (11:42)", "body": "Autumn? Do you concur?"}, {"response": 67, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Apr 16, 1999 (11:47)", "body": "Speak up! Maximum input wanted, por favor!"}, {"response": 68, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Apr 16, 1999 (12:05)", "body": "oh... and get something with business travel (my feeble attempt of topic staying-on"}, {"response": 69, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Apr 16, 1999 (12:51)", "body": "I miss you, too, Birthday Girl!"}, {"response": 70, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Apr 16, 1999 (13:10)", "body": "Happy Birthday!"}, {"response": 71, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Apr 16, 1999 (16:07)", "body": "thank you and thank you. (smile)"}, {"response": 72, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Apr 22, 1999 (00:32)", "body": "I think I blanked out there for a while...what did I miss?"}, {"response": 73, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (13:30)", "body": "Oh my God! Stacey had a birthday!!! Happy birthday, Stacey!!!! Sorry I'm late!!! :-/"}, {"response": 74, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (17:29)", "body": "*laugh* thanks Ree-head! my half birthday is coming up in a month and a half... you are early for that one! (when's yours?)"}, {"response": 75, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep  4, 1999 (00:45)", "body": "\ufffdburying my head under a stone\ufffd Oh, how embarrassing.... Hey, but if your half-birthday is in 6 weeks, it'll be around mid October?? That's my wedding anniversary! Okay, maybe I'm not entirely married at the moment, but this means I shall remember! YES! Mines December 9th. And I shall be spending it in London!!!!!!! JJJJIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPEEEEEEEE"}, {"response": 76, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (11:35)", "body": "Not entirely married- whazzat? Boer, African or Swiss custom?"}, {"response": 77, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (13:10)", "body": "The kind of custom that doesn't confuse travelling with being a tourist, sex with sleep, or togetherness with a single roof. On thoroughly good terms, of course. That's as clear as it gets in this topic!"}, {"response": 78, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (10:06)", "body": "what day is your wedding anniversary?"}, {"response": 79, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  7, 1999 (10:22)", "body": "15 October Your half year thang?"}, {"response": 80, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Sep  8, 1999 (10:47)", "body": "the 16th is my half-year thang! and, after going through all the wedding planning details for March 5th... it just may be our wedding anniversary too! can you say elope? I can!"}, {"response": 81, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, Sep  8, 1999 (16:37)", "body": "Can you say Huh? i can!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Sep  8, 1999 (16:48)", "body": "elope... sounds like antelope but means you avoid the majority of wedding hassles!"}, {"response": 83, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (03:32)", "body": "EEEEEE-LOPE!!! That's COOLLLLL!!!! That way I'll ALWAYS remember your wedding anniversary! I'll be able to send you a card every year! AND a half-year birthday card!"}, {"response": 84, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (16:23)", "body": "I remember being offered the same option by my fiancee just after I was told my my mother that my wedding was Not for me, but for her friends and Daddy's business associates. Sheesh! We went for it and did the aisle trip in white and everyone staring at me as though I was the sacrificial Virgin of the day being led to my deflowering by my own father...How ritualilstic... and, in a way, how obscene!"}, {"response": 85, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (03:49)", "body": "See, THAT's why I got married in red!"}, {"response": 86, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (15:30)", "body": "I always said that was my favorite color and I look great in it, but my Mother and Father would never have allowed it (...not to mention the Episcopalian church in which the rites were held...!)...If you did, you have my utmost admiration. Brava!"}, {"response": 87, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (01:32)", "body": "Thanks! No, I really did. I was 4 months pregnant, so I decided it was going to be no use getting married in white - it would just be a farce. So I did it in red instead; then again I had no parents here who could tell me what to wear. When Mum saw the photos she phoned, and there was a long long silence, then she said: 'Well, at least you're not hypocritical about it - you're pregnant, aren't you?' ha--ha! At least I could not possibly have looked 'stranger' than Chris - he wore his kilt, showing ALOT more leg than I did!"}, {"response": 88, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep 14, 1999 (18:29)", "body": "You must have the most amazing wedding pictures on earth. *lol* I am all amusement just thinking of them. Something to show your future in-laws!!!"}, {"response": 89, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (05:22)", "body": "ha-ha!! They're pretty amazing, alright! His mother went on for ages and ages about the slut from the bush who corrupted her innocent son! ha-ha!!!! As if he couldn't take care of himself. I swear the greatest dissappointment he ever caused her, was being straight. AFter all those years the dreaded female competition! Mothers in-law are weird thangs!"}, {"response": 90, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (16:52)", "body": "Hey! I do not like her from this far away for treating you like that! I guess that is what you meant when you once wrote that you had two sets of out-laws?! They do not deserve you, My Dear! Or your precious daughters!"}, {"response": 91, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (17:02)", "body": "BTW, just to satisfy my curiosity, what did Chris wear under his Kilt?"}, {"response": 92, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (03:12)", "body": "A willie warmer! I had it made especially!"}, {"response": 93, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (21:40)", "body": "Ask and I shall receive. I recall knitting one once for a guy who was being transferred to an astronomical observatory in Alaska...but I was not invited to the stag party at which he received it...fortunately, I guess!"}, {"response": 94, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 18, 1999 (01:20)", "body": "Who took the measurements?"}, {"response": 95, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, Sep 18, 1999 (15:24)", "body": "(hehe...)"}, {"response": 96, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, Mar 29, 2000 (13:49)", "body": "Another biznes trip to Hamburg coming up - no radio show this time, but a big party on Saturday. The DJs of Hamburg's Get Country & Rhythm night - always on the first Saturday of the month at a club called Knust - invited superstar up, as they are great supporters and friends of our mag, contributors or friends of good friends. So they invited superstar to co-host this time - Get Country & Rhythm presents: Meet your superstar inna barn! We'll have Hank Ray (of The Raymen fame) on stage, also Peta Devlin (of Die Braut haut ins Auge) performing with our autheur extraordinaire Hank McCoy (formerly Columbus, Ohio and there with the Dead Ringers on OKra Label and then the OKra All-Stars - now living in Cologne and writing our country column) and a bunch of friends (normally together with Peta D. Hamburg's new country band Cow - featuring members of Die Sterne and Die Goldenen Zitronen). And the Get Country...-folks will DJ. I expect it to be very late when the place finally closes... It'll be good to meet these folks again, as we often exchange mails, work together, talk on the phone, but rarely meet in person. And some of the people involved are, I thwear, really some of the nicest people around! The editors will cruise up there Friday or Saturday, maybe shop for records or something to wear, or hit a fleamarket on Sunday before driving off into the sunset, either by train or car (not decided yet)."}, {"response": 97, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Mar 29, 2000 (15:05)", "body": "Now I'm jealous. You will not miss having not been in Austin for SWSX weekend (or did I get it backward?). Enjoy! And be safe...."}, {"response": 98, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Mar 30, 2000 (12:16)", "body": "Well - courtesy of the current batch of flu, we'll only drive up on Saturday with a colleague and back on Sunday by train. Marcia, you're right - that'll be major fun, but SXSW... That's something special, a chance to get to see stuff that doesn't tour over here, and to discover the coming and happening bands, the stories for the next year. A great place to preview acts, so you can already have a story in store when their stuff gets released here. And everybody sez it's so much fun, too! And I won't get to shop for records on my trip, perhaps fleamarket on Sunday. But hey, many good friends!"}, {"response": 99, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar 30, 2000 (18:41)", "body": "There you Go! Mayhap one SWSX we can all Jam together in Austin. Would that not be a gig of the first order...or whatever? Cool to da Max?"}, {"response": 100, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar 30, 2000 (18:43)", "body": "Uh...that's South-by-SouthWest, isn't it? Perhaps if I knew what it stood for I could remember the order of the letters...! SXSW"}, {"response": 101, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Mar 31, 2000 (15:24)", "body": "You got that right, sailor!"}, {"response": 102, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar 31, 2000 (15:39)", "body": "Mahalo"}, {"response": 103, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, May  3, 2000 (22:14)", "body": "http://www.bestfares.com . Seniors Save Up To 70% Off Lowest Excursion Airfares Through Sept. 30, 2000 Seniors, you don't have to settle for the small 10% discount most airlines offer--you can save up to 70% off the lowest excursion airfares. Even better--a companion of any age can travel for the same price. So, pack up your grandchildren, your own children, your spouse or a friend and take advantage of these very Best Fares . Seniors hold more clout than any demographic group of travelers. Most not only have the leisure time and dollars to enjoy travel; they are among the most savvy travelers in existence. Seniors have lived long enough to form a large network of family and friends who are likely to be spread across the country, and we want to get you all back together for as many visits as you like. We work hard to bring great travel deals to all Bestfares.com members, but we are particularly pleased to present some terrific deals for seniors (age 62 and above), valid for travel through September 30, 2000. You can go coast to coast for $239 or travel between dozens of cities for as little as $75 roundtrip. - The extended travel periods and small number of blackout dates make these fares very accommodating for travel plans far in the future. Seniors can scoop up bargains for months of business trips (for those not yet enjoying retirement), vacations or getaways. - Seniors can show their kids how savvy they've become by pointing out these airfare gems. (There is nothing wrong with a gentle hint.) If you have children in their 40s planning a trip to Hawaii and expecting to pay $740 for each ticket, tell them about our $414 airfares. Using the senior/companion of any age purchase, four tickets cost as little as $1,656. The two-ticket price without the senior deal would be $1,480. For only $176 more, four people get to travel. - Grandparents can enjoy one of the most enjoyable experiences in life--a trip with a favorite grandson or granddaughter with sights to see and time just for the two of you. - Senior couples can enjoy a romantic trip to the city they lived in when they first fell in love, the romance of San Francisco or a beautiful mountain cabin or condo in Colorado. - Adult children and grandchildren can send their parents and grandparents to visit friends or relatives, check out the theater scene in New York or relax on the sunny beaches of Florida or Hawaii. - You can even use these deals for family travel, with one discount ticket available for every senior ticket purchased. If you've been longing to spend more time with your parents (there is no better gift you can give them), pick up two pairs of tickets and see the country together. Pick your favorite groups of fares and click on the links below for full details. The cheapest fares are generally available for Monday through Thursday travel with a modest surcharge for travel on weekends. Keep in mind that seats can be limited and booking as soon as possible helps assure that you get the fare and travel dates you want. [TABLE NOT SHOWN] --------------------------------------- Copyright Best Fares"}, {"response": 104, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, May  3, 2000 (22:16)", "body": "Thank Maggie for the above article."}, {"response": 105, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, May  4, 2000 (07:17)", "body": "Whic is better, http://www.cheaptickets.com or http://www.bestfares.com ? I like these sites much better than the pricelines where you have to guess the rice, I don't want to guess the price and leave money on the table even if they do have William Shattner hamming it up at psuedo events."}, {"response": 106, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, May  4, 2000 (13:13)", "body": "Cannot stand the Shatner ads. Terrible! I imagine both of these would be a good place to check - and the latter especially if one is older than 62 (do people really live to be that old?!) travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 3, "subject": "cruises and cruise ships", "response_count": 10, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "kstowers", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (14:50)", "body": "I have only traveled on one cruise. I took Norweigan Cruise Line to the Carribbean and Mexico. The ship was incredible and the food was even better. I have heard that Royal Caribbean is the best cruise line and Norweigan is the 2nd best, but they are both owned by the same company."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Apr 12, 1997 (17:29)", "body": "Where did you go in the Caribean Kimberly?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "mqube", "date": "Thu, May 29, 1997 (02:10)", "body": "The Port of Houston is now hosting its first regularly-scheduled cruise ship. I believe it's one of the Norwegian fleet, goes to the normal Caribbean ports of call, Cayman, Cozumel, etc."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 29, 1997 (07:46)", "body": "I had a great trip to the Cayman Islands a few years ago. Compliments of NEC Corp. What a great 10 days! I've never been on a cruise ship though my cousin has built quite a few of them (the Golden Odyssey, etc.)."}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jun 11, 1998 (19:08)", "body": "I'd love to go on a cruise someday. But a luxury ship would bore me, I think. I can't make much of the idea of being pampered and having to wear smart clothes to dinner parties and all that. I'd feel out of place. But I'm thinking more along the lines of sailing. Big rolling waves and all that. Has anyone here done that? What's it like?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "jgross5", "date": "Thu, Jun 11, 1998 (19:36)", "body": "I crossed the Atlantic in a row boat, alone. I dunno if that counts. Actually after only a few miles, I left my boat. Why would I do a thing like that? Just being suicidal? I just wanna see what it's like to experience drowning? No. Dolphins. They came to me. We made friends. I rode them all the rest of the way. They fed me. And they were very affectionate. They taught me their language. We had an even better time together after we could really communicate. I do miss 'em dearly, especially Boopsie, Nawgah and Chowdry. What a buncha clowns. But they were so light-hearted, good-hearted....exceptionally penetrating intelligences.....they were on the beam. Night beams from the moon let go of our random free order. We moved with the celestial, we swam in those currents."}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jun 11, 1998 (19:52)", "body": "Stop that! I'm going to start laughing aloud and everyone else is asleep. But it's funny, because actually I speak dolphin language too, you know. I bet if you tell me what they told you, I'd figure out what they said. Here's one phrase a dolphin once taught me: erehT ecno saw a nam morf ainavlysnneP ni saxeT yrevE gninrom eh tnew otni nwot yb sub, reveN reve edam a ssuf, tpecca nehw a niatrec ssal, deraD llac mih yb eht eman fo taht egnarts ecalp saxeT."}, {"response": 8, "author": "jgross5", "date": "Thu, Jun 11, 1998 (20:24)", "body": "well, they, uh, i mean with me, they didn't use backwards or forwards english. sorta squeaky staccato sounds with pure feeling. Boopsie really helped me pick it up. She would lie on her back and glide real lightly, kinda skim along the water surface in the groove of the waves. Meanwhile there I'd be on her stomach. She later told me that made it possible for me to put my ear over her heart. Chowdry said to me that by far the real learning, the best learning comes from the heart....and when that's going strong, it sets up a channel that crosses through any dimension and any barrier, any difficulty....something like how music is the universal language....Chowdry one time was tryin' to tell me that heartlove is the only true universal language....it's what makes music possible. So Boopsie had her heart channel open, and within a matter of seconds I started laughing because i knew then that it wasn't my ear that was listening to her heart, it was my heart that was listening to her heart. That's when i got their language real fast, like kids do when they're in a foreign land."}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jun 11, 1998 (20:38)", "body": "Yeah, well I studied at Dolpho University, and because of the whistling and weezing pronunciation, one writes their language as backwards English - can't believe you for one moment doubted my honesty!!! They tought me it with sign language. And they were nothing like your dolphins - none of this heart to heart stuff with those bastards. I mean did Poopsie and Cheddar ever give you the fin-in-the-air sign? Well, my dolpho teachers did. Said I was a crappy student and didn't belong there, and that I had to stop bothering them and return to where I came from, and leave them in peace. Then I listened to Mr. Weelittle's heart channel, and it said: 'All this learning and literacy is crap - go teach those who can't read at all to read their own language before you come here with your smart arse attitude and learn mine. You'll never truly understand it anyway, you're far too human, and far too stupid to realize just how stupid humans are.'"}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Jun 11, 1998 (20:40)", "body": "3:30 Got to go to bed and try to sleep. Wish it were day already. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 30, "subject": "Las Vegas, Nevada", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 12, 1999 (06:14)", "body": "We have a similar topic in art, it's the Enigma Cafe topic. Where am I? Fear and loathing. Comdex. Gambling. Slots. Complimentary buffets."}, {"response": 2, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jan 12, 1999 (08:54)", "body": "Woo Woo1 I'm going in a month!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 12, 1999 (08:57)", "body": "Woo Woo1 ? Is your next woo woo going to be Woo Woo1.1?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jan 12, 1999 (17:50)", "body": "perhaps... *sheepish grin* guess I got so excited, I forgot to hold down the shift key. oops!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "PT", "date": "Wed, Jan 13, 1999 (16:32)", "body": "Check out the boat ride inside LUXOR. Also see the lippizanner stallions at EXCALIBUR. EXCALIBER and LUXOR are right next to each other on the North end of the strip. Take a side trip to Hoover Dam. Just south of town on US 93."}, {"response": 6, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jan 23, 1999 (00:10)", "body": "and after Vegas, Germany still, right?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sun, Jan 24, 1999 (19:58)", "body": "Yup! and then Seattle/Vancouver in April! travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 31, "subject": "Berlin (Deutschland)", "response_count": 38, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Mar 11, 1999 (11:26)", "body": "Well, Berlin. Maybe the second great love in my life, when I was a child, we often visited friends in Berlin (I have lots of Super8-movies from those trips). Then I haven't been there for many years. When I went there again, the wall was gone and the city no longer divided by barbed wire, but you could still notice the different cultures that came together. Stacey, you asked about food: Berlin has lots of good Indian restaurants, we went to one called Maharani (I think somewhere in Charlottenburg), and some others I forgot. Anyway, Berlin \ufffds a very good place for ethnic foods. Italian, Greek and Turkish cuisine are easy to find, and normally always ok, same goes for Asian. Germany had a Mexican restaurant boom a few years ago, so you should be able to get some tacos, too. American food imperialism is represented by the usual suspects: McD., BurgerK., PizzaH., so you should do ok, if you don't trust anybody else. ;=} Fast food places are in most quarters in abundance, most times it's like the neighborhood kebab place (D\ufffdner Kebab has become Germany's favorite fast food item, even prefered over hamburgers). There, you can have varieties of kebab, plates of hors d'oeuvres (recommended if available), falafel (vegetarian dish, originally from palestina/egypt), lahmacun (sometimes described as turkish pizza, but rolled). Berlin has cheapest kebab prices (I've seen prices as low as DM 2,98, with the next booth selling for D 2,99...), but that does not always mean quality. I'd rather pay DM 6 (as you do here in Frankfurt), and get the full treatment: a bit larger, onions, cole slaw, red cabbage, tzatziki, pepper, tomato... Next stop: Fleamarkets."}, {"response": 2, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Mar 11, 1999 (14:50)", "body": "woo woo! Ilove Eastern Indian food!! And I can't stand the \"american fare\" provided by McD's, and the like. I don't patronize them here, I'm certainly not going to waste my time in them over there (unless it's to use a Western toilet!!)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Mar 12, 1999 (02:29)", "body": "Stacey, I don't knew if you have ever seen that before, but here in Germany, we use bowls with water in it, and whenever it pleases you, you flush everything away! We call it e.g. WC for Wasserclosett (adapted from french). And, are McD's toilets any good at all? Not last time I've checked."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 12, 1999 (08:58)", "body": "Indian food is regular fare these days at my house. Five Indian folks living there now!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Mar 12, 1999 (09:56)", "body": "You got a big house!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Mar 12, 1999 (11:39)", "body": "Alexander... not so worried about the German toilets as I am about places in the Czech Republic... I have only been warned.. obviously never seen!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Mar 12, 1999 (12:04)", "body": "Now, this would be for a \"Sanitation all over the World\" or at leat \"Bella Italia\" topic, but I HAVE encountered a toilet in Siena (another love of my life, but somewhat more melancholic), that was just a hole in a tiled floor. Admitted, this was in a tiny bar,..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Mar 12, 1999 (12:06)", "body": "ahh... funny how the bladder becomes more active in these 'tiny bars'... or is that just my imagination?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Mar 12, 1999 (12:34)", "body": "FLEAMARKETS: The places that really get me happy all over! I'm not up to date on what's hot and what not, but some things probably didn't change yet. Nollendorfplatz: The much-loved indoors fleamarket in a trainstation on stilts closed early in the 90ies, as the place was turned again into a railstation after the unification (sales booths would be in old waggons, and prices be stiff, but it was fun to be there and look around). Stra\ufffde des 17. Juni: Upscale fleamarket, starts next to trainstation. Expect hardly any crap, but good quality wares/antiques. Many people who sell here also have a shop somewhere, so they are professionals. Don't let 'em skin you, just because you are American. But they have such fine things, clocks, furniture, books,... Probably not a bad place to shop for 78s, I guess, but then, I won't be there (might be in Berlin late March, early April to do promo for the mag). Good place to look for jewellery, but emeber - just deals, no steals! Brandenburger Tor: A typical must-see for tourists. Do something historic, walk through it. Nobody did for about 50 years (not too true, as there were the east german border guards, but still...). There is a memorial for the dead of the USSR's Red Army in WWII, do me a favor and pay them respect. The russians suffered bad, for every US boy killed in fighting they lost over 100 people, in uniform and civilians. Still, they did not give up and stopped the fascists. If things didn't change too much, you can expect Poles and Russians to squat somewhere around, selling souvenirs. Red Army badges (wouldn't that shout Wer?), watches (I LOVE them, especially the Wostok Kapitanski Automatic with the little submarine on it - the Poljot (= Pilot, made in Moscow) Sturmanskij is also great, and Poljot made a proper mechanical wrist alarm watch!! That rocks!!), stuff with Lenin or Marx on it. Don't buy there unless you must (e.g. lotsa cash to burn, no time to search). On any less antiques-oriented, more crummy fleamarket in Berlin expect the same stuff to be on sale cheaper (major tourist si\ufffdte, major prices). Also nice: russian optical items (don't let them sell you anything as \"genuine Leica\" camera from WWII, even if there's crap like a swastika and words like \"Luftwaffe\" or the like on it. All fakes, but they really work with any 35mm film. Buy if you must, don't pay more than DM 200,--. For more details on russian cameras or watches, ask me - if interested - bef re you go shopping). Good eastern european souvenirs from fleamarkets are the crystalwares (!!), table cloths, amber-jewellery, porcelain and ceramic wares. Take a look at the bras they offer, might make somebody at home happy, too. Hands-off or lots of doubt if offered caviar. There's fake caviar stories I've heard from St. Petersburg, Russia, and why shouldn't they try that here, too? For other fleamarkets (sgl. Flohmarkt, pl. Flohm\ufffdrkte) check the city magazines Zitty and Tip. There, you'll also find out what happens on stages, be that opera, theater or some fun concerts by obscure Berlin acts... If in doubt, ask me."}, {"response": 10, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, Mar 13, 1999 (09:42)", "body": "General shopping: Every part of Berlin has it's own charme. Walk down Ku'damm (Kurf\ufffdstendamm), 'til you get to Charlottenburg. Nice antiques shops and boutiques. Blue Moon (I think it was called) has a nice variety of Doc Martens shoes (for the addicts among us). Kreuzberg is full with interesting shops, the whole import-export thing, shops run by imigrants, second hand clothing and record stores. Low style it used to be, with friendly, charming punks begging at street corners, but since the wall went, it's in the middle of town, and should start to move upward on the social ladder. Anyway, brilliant second hand records bough here in the past... Neuk\ufffdlln: Nice neighborhood, cheap flats. Old shops. Maybe I find some store's adresses I kept from last trip over... And the mother of all shopping is the KaDeWe (Kaufhaus des Westens). Nothing in this world, that you can't get there... it seems like (may well be, as you can get Paul Newman's Caesar Dressing even in the supermarket I frequent...)."}, {"response": 11, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Mar 16, 1999 (10:12)", "body": "(Concerning the tiny bar thing, I just went in there to use !some! sanitation. The whole drama had begun in a different location, and might have well resulted in my untimely demise.)"}, {"response": 12, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Mar 16, 1999 (10:22)", "body": "TEMPELHOF: When I was a kid, I often staid in this part of Berlin. Tempelhof has a well-known airport they've either closed by now, too, or will close soon (not sure). The architecture of the passengers terminals is a very conservative style, relating power and strictness, etc. Clear lines, meant to impress (built in the thirties by the fascists). In front of the airport is a strange sculpture, like part of a bow ) that ends in a three-pronged fork. )|( This is the Luftbr\ufffdckendenkmal, to remember the (western) allied air lift effort undertaken to feed Berlin when the soviets had Berlin cut off from land supply routes (after WWII and until ... Gotta run. more soon"}, {"response": 13, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Mar 18, 1999 (12:29)", "body": "... the iron curtain dissolved, Westberlin was an island, accessible only via russian, british, american or french airlines or a few motorways that could on occasion be shut off). Anyway, planes would fly in from Western Germany, fly over East Germany (aka German Democratic Republic/GDR, aka Deutsche Demokratische Republic/DDR, and - to some hardliners even till the wall went - the Soviet Occupational Zone - Sowjetische Besatzungszone/SBZ) and land in Westberlin, delivering milkpowder for the kids, medica supplies, coals for heating, food, - in short, imagine a city like New York cut in half, and one half deprived from all supplies. What the planes didn't get in, they wouldn't get. Simple as that. The Luftbr\ufffdckendenkmal is called Hungerforke by the Berlin people, and it has an identical counterpart in Frankfurt at the US-owned Rhein Main Airbase (next to Frankfurter Flughafen (civilian airport). The monument there stands right next to the motorway A5, on the right side as you'd drive from Frankfurt south towards Darmstadt (and further, maybe to Wolf's origin Stuttgart, or even swiss Basel, which would be Riette's way). If you pass it on the motorway, planes may roar straight over your car's roof, deafening you for a moment. To the left and the right are stand two of the old cargo planes, that were used in the Luftbr\ufffdcke (one is called \"The Berlin Train\", because they would start immediately after unloading and filling up, to return again as fast as possible with more goods, planes coming in on Berlin on a plane-per-minute-schedule, carefully coordinated on schedules, just as if it were a railways enterprise). We Germans remember these planes as Rosinenbomber (raisins-bombers), because after one pilot started dropping off candy from his plane when approaching his runway - there were kids at the airport's fence he flew over every time coming in - others followed suit, attaching napkin-parachutes to their personal rations sweets. This was turned then into a \"program\", slightly compromising the airlift effort (as much payload wares as possible) for smiles and children's joy. The Hungerforke stands for all this, but most specifically, it commemorates the gallant airmen, who died in the effort. These people gave all."}, {"response": 14, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Apr  7, 1999 (11:13)", "body": "The differences and the similarities between what was formerly West Berlin and East Berlin were striking. I have never seen so much construction/reconstruction ever!! I have pictures of \"crane farms\" city blocks that held 10-15 cranes, all busily working away. In the states it's a big thing to see one or two and at that, they are usually on the back of a truck (mobile cranes). These babies were the REAL thing! HUGE and long term! Berlin was a lot like any other metropolitan city in many ways but, as in many places in Europe and very unlike the US, the documented and visible history goes WAY, WAY back! The beer was yummy although I really think the Czech Republic had the BEST beer (pilsner) and the food was... well some of it was really good but the 'authentic German' meals we had (where everyone ganged up on Stace and made HER order cause they couldn't read the menu!) were um... well I drank more than I ate and Paul certainly can attest to the amounts of food I usually consume! Blah, blah, blah. My favorite city in Germany (that we spent any amount of time in) was Dresden. Only while in Prague did I discover the horrible role it was forced to play in the 2nd World War. A lot of recovery has gone on in the past 50 years for sure. Checkpoint Charlie has been converted into a museum... fascinating... I was impressed to see that where the wall once stood now lies a flat section of bricks... flush with the ground but certainly a reminder. It seems that although the entire city is rapidly moving along, they never want ANYONE to forget what transpired so that it may never happen again. Speaking of remembering... Prague has an incredible Jewish cemetary and Jewish museums... I will descibe much more later. Thumbs up to Germany Alexander... what I saw I was very impressed with. (Munich's airport is the finest I've ever had the pleasure of spending time in!)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, Apr  7, 1999 (18:21)", "body": "Munich airport (named for infamous bavarian politician Franz Josef Strau\ufffd) is very new. There used to be a nice area of wet pastures and swamp-like environment. Many people heavily opposed that construction, just to be wiped aside by state agencies of Bavaria. Glad you liked it, though, so in the end, it served a good purpose. Beers: every area has it's own specialties (as the beer topic probably tells better). In northern Germany, they prefer Pilsener type beer (named after Czech town of Pilsen), in Cologne you'd drink K\ufffdlsch, in Dortmund or D\ufffdsseldorf Alt. My home state Hessen has Pilsener and Export, which is like Lager a bit. Also, some breweries started Lager beers. Bavaria has the Weizenbiere, which come in crystall-clear and murky. There are more: Bockbier, Steinbier, Weissbier,..."}, {"response": 16, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Apr 11, 1999 (16:37)", "body": "(hummel hummel, morse morse)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, May  7, 1999 (12:37)", "body": "(hmmm...)"}, {"response": 18, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, May  8, 1999 (05:23)", "body": "Yeah Autumn! But that's Hamburg: Hummel Hummel! Mors Mors! Where do you have that from?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, May 26, 1999 (14:14)", "body": "My dad used to do a lot of travel for NATO during the Cold War, and he used to regale us with tales of sitting in German bars and observing this curious way of identifying oneself as being from Hamburg."}, {"response": 20, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, May 26, 1999 (17:05)", "body": "regale us, regale us!!!"}, {"response": 21, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, May 28, 1999 (08:28)", "body": "How do we know if someone is a Hamburg-er?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, May 28, 1999 (22:15)", "body": "OK, the Hamburg-er enters the bar and hollers, \"Hummel, Hummel!\" The fellow Hamburg-ers smack their butts and holler back, \"Mors, Mors!\" Maybe Alexander can explain to us the origin of this quaint tradition."}, {"response": 23, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, May 29, 1999 (05:36)", "body": "Sorry, gotta pass this one up. But generally, all over northern Germany, folks greet each other \"Moin Moin!\", with the appropriate reply being \"Moin Moin!\". The \"Hummel Hummel\"-\"Mors Mors\" thing is specific to Hamburg, and perhaps relates to athletes of a specifis sports club... Somethng like this was hinted at to me during the easter trip to Hamburg by an old old-school punk, who must politely asked us for a paper tissue, so he could sneeze his nose in the subway, instead of sneezing all over the people. The two most important clubs in Hamburg are HSV Hamburg, who are playing football in the Bundesliga (\"soccer in first league\"), and St. Pauli, who are playing in 2. Bundesliga. This is the much-beloved club of the whole Hamburg-/St. Pauli-scene, all the bands and all the leftists. Hamburg is very left-politics, since ages. The stadium of St. Pauli is right next to St. Pauli, so going to the game is like going to the movies in other towns. Might well be that this greeting derives from this club."}, {"response": 24, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Jun  8, 1999 (10:44)", "body": "Stacey, when are your pictures ever gonna make it to this place? THE CASTLE, THE TRACKING DEVICE! THE PUBLIC MUST KNOW!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jun  8, 1999 (11:36)", "body": "uh... soon? I've got the HTML docs all written up referring to the images and all... I just don't know how to save them or WHERE to save them on the Spring. Actually I guess if I could just figure where to save the images themselves on the spring so I could write readable references... umm... WER? help me"}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 10, 1999 (19:06)", "body": "Save them in http://www.spring.net/~stacey In your public_html directory! You can ftp them there."}, {"response": 27, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Jun 15, 1999 (14:03)", "body": "uh... how do I do that?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 17, 1999 (10:04)", "body": "Go to http://www.stroud.com and get yourself a good ftp program, there's lotsa free ones then enter your settings and start ftping away. I'm available for detailed questions as you get in to it. But get ws-ftp or bulletproof ftp or some other good ftp program first. You can do it with pico from the command prompt also, if you know your html."}, {"response": 29, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jun 17, 1999 (15:54)", "body": "okay... I've got an ftp program --- how do I use it? I fooled around in PICO but I don't know where I should save my files out to..."}, {"response": 30, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jun 17, 1999 (20:59)", "body": "actual full path names would be www.spring.net/usr/home/stacey/public_html or access.spring.net/usr/home/pasquina/public_html is that what you wanted to know? and to use your ftp program... use www.spring.net or access.spring.net as the address, then the appropriate username and password and you should log into /usr/home/stacey for instance... then just click on the folder(etcetera) named public_html and either set-up sub-folders are just put everything in there..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Jun 17, 1999 (21:00)", "body": "or something like that anyway..."}, {"response": 32, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Jun 18, 1999 (10:19)", "body": "now if I can just get this program to work!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jun 20, 1999 (11:40)", "body": "*fingers crossed*"}, {"response": 34, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Jun 21, 1999 (09:33)", "body": "better crosst hose toes too... Warftpd has crashed my entire system three times already! (And I can't seem to throw it away -- it won't let me!)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Jun 22, 1999 (09:30)", "body": "(*Crossing toes, those, hoes and whatever lies around this place!*)"}, {"response": 36, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Jun 22, 1999 (23:33)", "body": "(is it dangerous to cross a ho?)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Jun 24, 1999 (03:42)", "body": "(Well, a hoe, as in gardening. Extremely dangerous - leave your gardening tools laying about crossed, and the next helpful creature, senior citizen or repo-man will step into them... And who's gotta clean it up? Some stuff fall under military arms control regulations - especially the hoe I got, with the sharpened edge from much use lately... I fancied a semi-automatic shovel the other day, too... Gotta upgrade... Perhaps I should also get a sawed-off pick-axe, or a rake launcher... Makes me feel safer... rotect my assets, you know?)"}, {"response": 38, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jun 25, 1999 (23:03)", "body": "(yep...) travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 32, "subject": "Prague (Czech Republic)", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, May 26, 1999 (14:16)", "body": "Does he like Niko too?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, May 27, 1999 (02:43)", "body": "I guess so. I think Vaclav Havel even bought the record in NYC, when the band was still together there - which means he was one of three people who figured they were cool way before others did! Nico is dead, BTW. Fell off a bike and died, I've heard."}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, May 28, 1999 (22:16)", "body": "That Vaclav Havel sounds really cool and edgy. Perhaps we should invite him to join the Spring?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, May 29, 1999 (05:40)", "body": "Right. You go and drag the Czech head of state in here, and I'll, uh, dunno, try something else, too. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 33, "subject": "Hamburg (Germany)", "response_count": 80, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "caryn", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (22:07)", "body": "Alexander! How are you Sir! I am Caryn Mac Fadyen, I am from Glasgow, and have spent many a time in Hamburg as a performer! You are right about the clubs and record labels galore! I am personal friends with Michael Schenker founding former member of Scorpions and UFO, which are runned by his younger Rudolph which is still very much active. They are both from Cologne, Both bands started there and they have their main studios in Cologne. Hamburg as well as Berlin and Frankfurt was their first major sto ping grounds on their way to success. I myself have recorded, performed and collaberated in these cities! Back in both London and Glasgow, we have some great studios as well as record labels. For regular tourism much like Germany, Scotland boasts lush green glens and hills, warm friendly people and charisma in the streets of our big cities. Alexander are you from Hamburg! what part of Hamburg and when did you come here to the States! Just a bug in your ear; I and my entourage will be looking to open one of my fabulous theme restaurants; \"Into The Pages\" a full service Literary Eatery and pub recognizing songwriters book writers, poets, etc. those great artists whom make the Industry what it is, but is overlooked too much. This establishment will be solely for the writer of many genres. The food, the memorbilia on the walls and tables, the music and entertainment will reflect these very writers whom made these opprtunities in the industry possible! Please forgive the lengthy note here! I wanted to share with you some great things to come to Hamburg and Germany very soon! Watch for us! Keep on Rollin' Dunkeshen! Caryn!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "caryn", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (22:11)", "body": "Alexander! How are you Sir! I am Caryn Mac Fadyen, I am from Glasgow, and have spent many a time in Hamburg as a performer! You are right about the clubs and record labels, there are many! I am personal friends with Michael Schenker founding former member of Scorpions and UFO, which are runned by his younger Rudolph which is still very much active. They are both from Cologne, Both bands started there and they have their main studios in Cologne. Hamburg as well as Berlin and Frankfurt was their first ajor stomping grounds on their way to success. I myself have recorded, performed and collaberated in these cities! Back in both London and Glasgow, we have some great studios as well as record labels. For regular tourism much like Germany, Scotland boasts lush green glens and hills, warm friendly people and charisma in the streets of our big cities. Alexander are you from Hamburg! what part of Hamburg and when did you come here to the States! Just a bug in your ear; I and my entourage will be lookin to open one of my fabulous theme restaurants; \"Into The Pages\" a full service Literary Eatery and pub recognizing songwriters book writers, poets, etc. those great artists whom make the Industry what it is, but is overlooked too much. This establishment will be solely for the writer of many genres. The food, the memorbilia on the walls and tables, the music and entertainment will reflect these very writers whom made these opprtunities in the industry possible! Please forgive the lengthy note here! I anted to share with you some great things to come to Hamburg and Germany very soon! Watch for us! Keep on Rollin' Dunkeshen! Caryn!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (07:14)", "body": "Hamburg is extremely pretty, and great to be in. I've only been there once, for 2 days, but I remember it well. Had a wonderful time."}, {"response": 4, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (07:43)", "body": "Where did you go to? What did you do there?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "Elena", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (12:39)", "body": "I was in Hamburg once, just passing by. I was 18, inter-railing with a girlfriend. Innocent and out of money as we were, we ended up in a very cheap and shabby hotel near the railway station (eek, I only much later read that you should keep away from them) and the place was obviously something more than just a hotel. Because of the extraordinary noise around us and in the corridor all night I checked two times during the night that our door was locked. But the old lady who kept that place was very friendl and gave us huge plates of German sausages in the morning!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (13:33)", "body": "Cool! I found the people there very friendly as well. And the place has an ever so slightly dingy feel about it - almost like England. I adore that about places."}, {"response": 7, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (15:24)", "body": "And what did you do? And see? Like \"I bought records at...\", or something. Books. Lingerie. Rubber stuff for the husband. A walking cane. A bottled ship. Shoes. A tattoo. Elena, was that Hotel the Schanzenstern at the trainstation Sternschanze, in St. Pauli? (Good record shops within 500 meters!) Tell me something that you experienced there, some adventure..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Elena", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (16:12)", "body": "Sorry Alexander, I can\ufffdt remember the name of that weird place, I was 18 about 18 years ago! But what I remember clearly is that in the tiny breakfast room of the hotel there were heaps of very dusty looking stuffed animals like badgers, ermines and small crocodiles on shelves, didn\ufffdt really stimulate my appetite! Possibly there were good record shops too but there were also sex shops everywhere, one was right beside the hotel door I think. That trade has never been very explicit in Finland so I really marveled at the amount of it in Hamburg."}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep  4, 1999 (00:50)", "body": "I don't think I could afford to buy anything. I was doing a sort of round-trip through Germany, without being able to actually sleep in youth hotels, so I took night trains all over the place to have a place to sleep, and spent each day in a different city. I did buy a pin for my travel jacket at a kiosk though! Rest of the time I just wandered around, ate and drank cheaply, and sat on benches to watch the people and surroundings. I might even have made some sketches - can't remember; I'll go have a ig in the 1993 box."}, {"response": 10, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (05:37)", "body": "Do so, please! Elena, too - any pics?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (08:17)", "body": "Found the sketches. Forgotten how bad they are. Looking at them makes Hamburg look not unlike a place like, say ... Billingham. Not posting ANY of it, sorry. And I'll rely on my memory instead."}, {"response": 12, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (11:31)", "body": "So, redraw based on the sketches and your memory!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (13:14)", "body": "God, NO! My self-confidence has been totally shattered by what I've seen ... Don't YOU have any photos???? I mean, of all people!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (15:12)", "body": "Filmed a bit with Super 8... Sorry!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (15:57)", "body": "ha-ha!! So, between 3 people who have been to Hamburg, we have NOTHING?? This is a problem! I think tomorrow I shall open a topic on Namibia, and post LOADS of photos of my beloved dessert - which will drive everyone insane!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, Sep  8, 1999 (16:45)", "body": "You won't have any dificulty with me here..."}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (03:35)", "body": "You'll find it weird, I'm sure. I mean, imagine a kind of Germany, with swaying palmtrees, wild, white beaches and rough sea, and wonderful German cuisine - with kudu, springbok and oryx. I'll get my books and pictures, just wait ..."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Elena", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (06:19)", "body": "Well, anywhere you go on this planet, there are loads of Germans! Luckily! For instance, in about 1985, I had a tiny tent on a beach in Italy somewhere near Rimini. Took a long walk and a big storm broke out meanwhile. When I found my way back to the beack in a terrible wind and rain, I found my tent in a strange shape, in a new place with big stones on the edges! Yes, it was the doing of the Germans who camped nearby. One of them ran through the rain to tell me that the wind had taken my little tent and they had rescued it from wandering off."}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (07:38)", "body": "ha-ha! Yep, they can be useful creatures, the Germans! My friends from Germany always seem to come and visit with great Nijmwegen cheese whenever I crave it. How do they KNOW??"}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (08:52)", "body": "I'm half German by lineage. Norwegian other half."}, {"response": 21, "author": "Elena", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (10:26)", "body": "Terry, do you speak Norwegian or pronounce your surname in the original way? Btw I am partly Swedish......let\ufffds all trace our roots and find out that we all have them in the same place originally, the German part of the world!!! :-))"}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (11:01)", "body": "Yeah! Mine are Dutch and English mostly."}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (17:53)", "body": "Nope I don't speak Norwegian and I have a foggy idea how to pronounce walhus in Norwegian wal hoos'"}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (01:09)", "body": "Terry Walhooooos?? \ufffdlaugh\ufffd And all this time I thought of you as Terry 'Wallace'....!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (01:25)", "body": "I couldn't afford airfare to Hamburg, so I went to Spamburg. Seriously, though, it would have been cool to go to the clubs there in the early 60s to see the pre-fame Beatles. Maybe someday, but for now, I owe, I owe so off to work I go!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (11:02)", "body": "See how it goes with names ree head, just think I used to think you as: Ree Etta Readjust your mental image of mon nom."}, {"response": 27, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (13:24)", "body": "ReeEtta!!! I still can't get over it. If I marry you, then I'll be ReeEtta Walhooosss!! HMMM. You're right - we should think it over! NO NO, Terry, your money can concur all such problems!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (12:12)", "body": "Then problems must be cheap to fix. If you're serious about this wedding thing, don't we have some distance and relationship issues to deal with?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (13:01)", "body": "No no no! I refuse to think THAT far ahead. If I have to think about stuff like that, when will I find time to love you?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (16:00)", "body": "That's true. Details, details! Who needs 'em?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (04:43)", "body": ";=}"}, {"response": 32, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (01:34)", "body": "You look like you've had a disgustingly pleasant weekend!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (10:44)", "body": "And how was your weekend, ree?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (14:51)", "body": "GGGGOOOOOODD!!! I lasted until today - we had a no-work day, which was great. The dad and two of the sons of the family I always visit in Germany came on Sunday night, and we had a wonderful time visiting and stuffing ourselves at the best of restaurants. And on Saturday we took the girls to the horsie carousel in town, and had loads of ice-cream and a walk along the lake. It was just lazy and great. Did you have a nice weekend too, Terry?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep 14, 1999 (08:06)", "body": "I had a good weekend. I traveled out to Cedar Creek and worked around the place, I got in a swim at my place in town, watched the Longhorns game on tv, found a new rentor (Tess Del Prete), and did a lot of cleanup. I took back the Pergo flooring because I decided to do red oak instead."}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (05:24)", "body": "You sound like one of those guys who can do every kind of job with their hands - that's cool. Like Kitchen Man would say, 'It's all in the wrist!'"}, {"response": 37, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (07:13)", "body": "I'm half German ya' know."}, {"response": 38, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (10:08)", "body": "MmH...Seems as if we Germans felt a strong urge to procreate when we came to the New World...( like the rabbits in Australia) flood the whole land with our offsprings...Funny that everyone in the US seems to have German ancestors somehow...even THE KING!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (13:28)", "body": "Elvis had German ancestors?? Now, I wonder why the Americans nevva evva mention that! ha-ha!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (13:38)", "body": "Maybe they don't know it yet... or like to ignore it? The \"Memphis Mafia\" doesn't like that idea, so Donald Presley (some distant cousin of Elvis) will publish his book in Germany first. In his book, he says, he can prove that Elvis' ancestors came from the Pfalz - somewhere in South-Germany - and their name was Pressler."}, {"response": 41, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (13:48)", "body": "I'd be willing to bet they are Welsh in origin!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (13:57)", "body": "I've heard the common opinion ( and the one the Memphis Mafia sticks to) is that he's anglo-irish...Who knows?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 15, 1999 (16:46)", "body": "Like all other Americans (save for the native Amerindians), we are all something of a mixture. In fact, the British are about as mixed as they can be. No one was native there till the continental tribes migrated there after the last Ice Age. So much for stuffy pretenses! Sheehs, never heard that he was Irish of any sort...there are the Preseli Mountains in South Wales."}, {"response": 44, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (03:15)", "body": "ha-ha! I'm sure the Welsh blood would be alright, but Americans are so incredibly patriotic; for them to admit that their singing star was of German descent would be like admitting that the Statue of Liberty was a Speer design."}, {"response": 45, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (12:48)", "body": "But is was a French design..."}, {"response": 46, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (12:50)", "body": "...by Eiffel, if I don't err..."}, {"response": 47, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (12:51)", "body": "...yeah, the guy with the tower..."}, {"response": 48, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (12:55)", "body": "...wasn't he Alsacian?..."}, {"response": 49, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (13:26)", "body": "I KNOW it wasn't a Speer-design - it was just a hypothetical comparison to measure what the reaction might have been. The Eiffel guy designed the statue of Liberty??? Wonder if it's as rickety as his tower!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (15:03)", "body": "...and Alsace is a department in France..."}, {"response": 51, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (15:05)", "body": "... where the indigenous people - the Alsacians, though French citizens -, speak a GERMAN dialect."}, {"response": 52, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (15:06)", "body": "So, that makes the Statue of Liberty basically..."}, {"response": 53, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (22:47)", "body": "Speaking of Germany, did you catch the news story about the German woman who held a gun to men and forced them to have sex with her? It's true, it was in the news today. But what's with the gun? Did she really need a gun? That was for later on the get him to cuddle with her?"}, {"response": 54, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (23:46)", "body": "...*wiping off the paint from the wide brush used to paint all Americans*...Ree, are we all that bad? Are all Namibians...or all Swiss...or all of anything...?! Why do I feel ashamed and alone in this. I am American. I am not blind or brain-dead!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 16, 1999 (23:47)", "body": "Did not see that article, Terry...is it That bad to cuddle for a little while? You are mostly asleep by then, anyway!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (03:47)", "body": "Jeez, how desperate must a person be to have to get 'em with a gun??? Marcia, all nations have their brain-dead bits - but as a nation, not as individuals. With Americans it is patriotism, with the Swiss it is a general condition of limbo, with Namibians it is short-sightedness (Namibians believe that Namibia is at the centre of the universe...). I always make fun of this stuff, because it reminds me of myself when I'm naked!"}, {"response": 57, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (08:43)", "body": "I watched a funny scene in the tv show Friends where one of the lead babes gets naked, by herself. What do people do when they get naked when they're alone? Run around the house? Dance? Act funny?"}, {"response": 58, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (09:43)", "body": "Eh, no..."}, {"response": 59, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Sat, Sep 18, 1999 (14:10)", "body": "Terry, I heard that this \"woman\" was possibly not REALLY a woman... Marcia, we European are a bunch of arrogant bastards, keep this in mind. I think this maybe comes from being \"the old world\" and feudal structures having survived in people's heads so long."}, {"response": 60, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Sep 18, 1999 (18:27)", "body": "If your too modest and self-deprecating accessment of Europeans is true, how come all of the ones I have met have been the soul of kindness and gentility - whether I met them in person or here on theSpring? You shall not convince me that easily *grin* I love Europe and everyone I have met...!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Sep 18, 1999 (19:21)", "body": "...\"this woman is possibly not REALLY a woman\"... I should think \"she\" would need some powerful persuasion to attract men to \"her\" though I can think of a few men who'd rather die than...!"}, {"response": 62, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 19, 1999 (03:21)", "body": "ha-ha! It's like that thing that happened to an English football team last year. They were on the bus, and a woman, dressed scantily, signalled for the bus to stop. The driver asked what she wanted, and she said, if they'd give her a lift to the next town, she'd give every guy on the bus a blow-job. So they took her, and she did what she'd promised. At the next town they dropped her off. As they were driving off, she suddenly pulled up her dress; she was a man!! Serves 'em right!!"}, {"response": 63, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sun, Sep 19, 1999 (03:41)", "body": "Boy, I should have checked out this conference earlier. This is even livelier than the the bout in Philosophy's \"How do you forgive?\" and certainly more spirited than Trinidad-DeLaHoya...BTW, Felix beat Oscar in the \"Odd Couple\" welterweight superbout!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sun, Sep 19, 1999 (04:04)", "body": "\"I'm not dumb but I don't understand Why she walks like a woman but talks like man Oh my Lola, la la la la Lola La la la la Lola.\" --Ray Davies (The Kinks) 1970"}, {"response": 65, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep 19, 1999 (12:50)", "body": "Yes, I remember that song! So, what's your favourite place in the world, John?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sun, Sep 19, 1999 (18:35)", "body": "I thought you might remember that once since your mum likes the Kinks. I've not been to Hamburg, or I'm sorry to say, Europe at all--but I have a friend from Hamburg (Marcia knows her too. She's a lovely young woman who played tennis for the local university team here in Hilo. Her father is an executive for Beck's Beer, which I consider top rate, at least among beers I have tried). Hawaii is hard to beat in my book, but other places I love--that I have been--include Vancouver and Victoria, B.C., Canad ; Chicago (grew up 120 miles west of there); San Francisco; New Orleans; Portland, Oregon; Sydney, Australia; Port Victoria, Seychelles Islands (Mahe Island). How about you, Ree?"}, {"response": 67, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 20, 1999 (02:38)", "body": "I love London and Paris for art, musicals, opera and excitement. But Swakopmund in Namibia, on the west coast of Africa - that's where everything comes together, where I feel in place."}, {"response": 68, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Sep 20, 1999 (09:58)", "body": "Sounds good. I would love to go to London and Paris one day when I'm not so damn broke. I don't know if I could get any sleep in Namibia without dreaming of cobras and puff adders. But it sure looks beautiful on the telly."}, {"response": 69, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (02:11)", "body": "I can understand that. Chris was very worried the first time I took him to Namibia, and had to explain to him in the evening that his shoes must stand upside down so that snakes and scorpions won't crawl in. Now he loves it there though, and sometimes he even comes when I go into the desert or the bush. I would love to see Hawaii someday. It must be an unreal place to live in. All those exotic foods, the swimming, the beaches, the vegetation - sounds just wonderful."}, {"response": 70, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (06:19)", "body": "I can't wait to see your Namibia picture(s) posted. I've seen it on the tube and it looks exciting. I am fascinated with Africa in general. I've been to Kenya, several years ago I had a girlfriend from Ivory Coast (should have been the Gold Coast, I just couldn't make enough money to keep her happy), and one of my best friends is Nigerian. Hawaii is a wonderful place to visit. It can be a difficult place to live. The economy here is terrible and our best and brightest youth have to leave here to get the jobs and economic opportunity they deserve, but it is beautiful and as long as I can make a living here, I will be here."}, {"response": 71, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (13:21)", "body": "Namibia is pretty poor compared to European countries as well, but pretty rich for an African country. You had a girlfriend from Ivory Coast?? It is interesting about her being after money, because at my summer school a few weeks back I met a French girl whose brother is married to a girl from the Ivory Coast. And she was complaining to me about how her brother had gotten himself into a huge debt, because his wife has been going crazy with his credit cards ever since they got married 4 years ago - appa ently back then he DID have money. How weird that you should say the same thing of a girl from that part of the world."}, {"response": 72, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (14:33)", "body": "What countries border Namibia?"}, {"response": 73, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (04:16)", "body": "Angola, Zambia, Botswana, Zimbabwe and South Africa."}, {"response": 74, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (07:53)", "body": "What is the capital of Namibia? What is your favorite city in Namibia? What is the country's flower? What does the flag look like? (when you're done with your paper, I'll give you your grade)"}, {"response": 75, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (11:29)", "body": "\ufffdbiting my nails\ufffd Just don't fail me, master!!!! Windhoek is the capital of Namibia. Windhoek and Swakopmund are my favourite cities in Namibia. The most famous flower is the Welwitchia Mirabulus - its leaves are more than a meter long, and some of the ones you find in the desert are over a thousand years old. But our national plant is the Aloe. The flag is green, blue and red with a yellow sun in the top right hand corner. This stuff should be in the other topic!!!"}, {"response": 76, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (23:28)", "body": "OK OK ... I spaced out. I'll ask some more questions there."}, {"response": 77, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (03:57)", "body": "ha-ha! Doesn't matter, Terry-guy."}, {"response": 78, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (13:04)", "body": "Terry-guy & Ree-gal, Hamburg is big enough for Namibia. Perhaps not in size, but in style: Everything fits in Hamburg, I guess."}, {"response": 79, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (01:08)", "body": "Palm trees and lions and sand ... OH MY!"}, {"response": 80, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (01:53)", "body": "WHY AMERICANS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO TRAVEL The following are actual stories provided by travel agents: I had someone ask for an aisle seat so that their hair wouldn't get messed up by being near the window. A client called in inquiring about a package to Hawaii. After going over all the cost info, she asked, \"Would it be cheaper to fly to California and then take the train to Hawaii?\" A man called, furious about a Florida package we did. I asked what was wrong with the vacation in Orlando. He said he was expecting an ocean-view room. I tried to explain that is not possible, since Orlando is in the middle of the state. He replied, \"Don't lie to me. I looked on the map and Florida is a very thin state.\" I got a call from a man who asked, \"Is it possible to see England from Canada?\" I said, \"No.\" He said \"But they look so close on the map.\" A nice lady just called. She needed to know how it was possible that her flight from Detroit left at 8:20am and got into Chicago at 8:33am. I tried to explain that Michigan was an hour ahead of Illinois, but she could not understand the concept of time zones. Finally I told her the plane went very fast, and she bought that! I just got off the phone with a man who asked, \"How do I know which plane to get on?\" I asked him what exactly he meant, which he replied, \"I was told my flight number is 823, but none of these darn planes have numbers on them.\" A business man called and had a question about the documents he needed in order to fly to China. After a lengthy discussion about passports, I reminded him he needed a visa. \"Oh no I don't, I've been to China many times and never had to have one of those.\" I double checked and sure enough, his stay required a visa. When I told him this he said, \"Look, I've been to China four times and every time they have accepted my American Express.\" travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 34, "subject": "Scotland", "response_count": 42, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (22:11)", "body": "I don't know much about Scotland, but some guy on sports radio was raving about the sweaters he was going to bring back."}, {"response": 2, "author": "caryn", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (22:28)", "body": "Yes! our sweaters are soft and sensious! made of the finest cashmere wool. They are made from baby lamb wool, which is very delicate and very sturdy for its softness! Why these sweaters are so expensive, is because the baby lambs which the wool is shed from are very limited in herd numbers, they are not like the adult sheep where there are a surplus amount of them. The gentleman who says he will bring back sweaters from Scotland, is very smart. Buying them in Scotland and bringing them back, avoids t e high tariff taxes which are slapped on many imported items. If the item is very rare or is made in limited amounts all the more taxes you will pay if you buy them here. Besides there are numerous factories worldwide making cashmere sweaters for cheaper prices due to cheap, and unfair labor! They are cashmere but they are not the cashmere that most people have come to appreciate. If you can buy them in Scotland and bring them here, good for him that does that! Terry, you can find out so much on my c untry in your library and museums. Going to Scotland these days is much more affordable then you think. You have access to the vast travel websites! Look them up and you will be surprised. Go to Scotland and experience the greatness for yourself like so many others have! I am looking to form a small group of people whom maybe interested in seeing Scotland and England from a local's point of view! Rent a Manor or cottage and share the expenses and use that as our base and do our visiting at our own r ndom, and thoroughly enjoy the very inner depths of our nation's beauty. Happy traveling! Thank you! Caryn."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (22:54)", "body": "They were saying there was one particular brand of men's sweater that surpassed all others. Can't remember the name right now, but I might recognize it if you said it."}, {"response": 4, "author": "caryn", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (23:00)", "body": "Yes! it maybe either Ralph Lauren, or Armani, I believe Tommy Hilfilger as well is among the finer mens Sweater category! I adore your articulate taste in the finer things in life! You see the other end of the ladder isn't all that stuffy! Ha! Ha! What is fancy on cashmere sweaters! Have you ever seen any or felt any. All the above Designer brands make sweaters with this fine wool! Check it out! Thank you! Caryn. P.S. Terry you can be very suave when you want to be!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "caryn", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (23:02)", "body": "Yes! it maybe either Ralph Lauren, or Armani, I believe Tommy Hilfilger as well is among the finer mens Sweater category! I adore your articulate taste in the finer things in life! You see the other end of the ladder isn't all that stuffy! Ha! Ha! What is your fancy on cashmere sweaters! Have you ever seen any or felt any. All the above Designer brands make sweaters with this fine wool! Check it out! Thank you! Caryn. P.S. Terry you can be very suave when you want to be!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (23:17)", "body": "(Caryn, he is handsome, too!)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jul 17, 1999 (08:03)", "body": "None of those names rings a bell, it was another brand of sweater. Not as big a name as those you mentioned."}, {"response": 8, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Jul 18, 1999 (13:10)", "body": "The Shetland Isles are known for the phenomenal wool their sheep yield; I guess when it's so cold in a place it makes sense to check out what the animals are wearing there! Caryn, I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing me say how much we're looking forward to doing a Scotland-Norway trip in 2001."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 18, 1999 (21:59)", "body": "I hear they had a great golf tournament in Scotland today, the British Open, on one of the toughest courses in the world."}, {"response": 10, "author": "caryn", "date": "Mon, Jul 19, 1999 (00:17)", "body": "It's a pleasant feeling that so many people are fascinated about Scotland, I am glad I was born and raised there. I would love to put small groups together and take them over to Scotland, and show them my Scotland, the way I and many others there see their homeland. Our moors are lush with thick healthy grass and lush greenery. Our frequent rains keep our vegitation robust. Please let's come up with a strategy to make these trips possible. Looking to rent a Manor, castle or lovely cottage fit for gro ps of 10 couples! What do think Autumn, you have a very English/Scottish first name! We would use our Manor house, castle or cottage as our base and go out and do our thing! We would have a couple of fine dinners thrown in to experience Scottish cusine at its finest either in Glasgow or Edinburgh or both, go up through Perthshire, then into Dundee and up through St. Andrews Golf resort. Aberdeen, over through Inverness and into the Loch Ness area and a town named Ben Nevis. That is just one of many i eas we can look into. I was even thinking of taking folks through the areas where my novels take place! We will certainly see what boils! Keep those good ideas coming! Thank you! Caryn."}, {"response": 11, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Jul 22, 1999 (22:46)", "body": "I am especially interested in exploring the Highlands, and I should mention that we will be traveling with our children. To see the country thru the eyes of a local...every tourist's dream!! BTW, Autumn, while English, is postulated to be Etruscan in origin..."}, {"response": 12, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Jul 23, 1999 (06:09)", "body": "...via Latin, of course. Hello Autumn! How are you?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Jul 23, 1999 (11:08)", "body": "Magnifique, Alexander!! (or should I say Magnificus?) And yourself? You must've been on vacation, I haven't seen you for a good while!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Jul 23, 1999 (11:46)", "body": "Vacation? Was that a Roman poet? I seem to remember the name... Naw, had rough sailing. Look up my topic in Screwed if you feel you're up to it. Things keep me busy. People, too. Plus the hard-wired stupidity of this here poster and some people around him... Deadline is nearing, too. Got nothing on my hands yet. What a mess production will be, if things start like that!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jul 23, 1999 (15:05)", "body": "I have so many favorite memories of Scotland, but one which stands out was our first visit there in midsummer, Edinburgh. We had our hotel window open and I heard my favorite sound in the distance - bagpipes. I listened carefully then checked the clock. It was the piper on the battlements of Edinburgh Castle and I get chills every time I think of it. I knew right then part of my heart would always remain in Scotland."}, {"response": 16, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (07:15)", "body": "It is a really romantic place. Except when one has to take a bath/shower..."}, {"response": 17, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (05:46)", "body": "Why's that?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (08:21)", "body": "Well, it was New Year. One had two choices: a cold bath that took 3 hours to fill, or a cold shower, jumping around to occasionally catch on of the 3 drops that trickle from the whitely caked showerhead. But the surroundings were great: a castle on the sea in the middle of nowhere. And a fireplace!!! I love fireplaces!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (11:33)", "body": "And on New year, Scotsfolk of course traditionally have only cold water... Right? Switch it off New Year's eve, and forget to turn it back on until the folks sober up, right?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  5, 1999 (13:19)", "body": "Who knows!! I always thought it was merely because the Scots (and the English) don't know a toss about plumming! Do you ever go to England and Scotland?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (15:05)", "body": "London - twice, Scotland - never! And DO I have memories of London, boy! * blush*"}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (15:59)", "body": "Don't DO that!!! How can you say such a thing, then NOT say anything??"}, {"response": 23, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep  6, 1999 (17:16)", "body": "...waiting with biscuits and smoked salmon for Alexander's tales so we can all blush with him...)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (15:30)", "body": "pass me a biscuit... I'm waiting too!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (15:33)", "body": "ooh! ouch. they're a little stale from a week and a half's worth of sitting..."}, {"response": 26, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (18:50)", "body": "Probably more like hardtack. Soak'um in Scotch? (Single or Double Malt?!)"}, {"response": 27, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (11:54)", "body": "whew... just the thought of something that strong knocked me out!"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (13:22)", "body": "Oh, Stacey, you're such an innocent among the wolves!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (16:51)", "body": "I'm just a cork-sniffer...too much and I am out like a baby...!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (04:17)", "body": "Surely there must be better things to sniff than that!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (07:53)", "body": "Like?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (09:19)", "body": "uh oh... I'm keeping my mouth shut... (and that's difficult)"}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (12:54)", "body": "Baby bottoms!!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (13:55)", "body": "clean or dirty??"}, {"response": 35, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (17:19)", "body": "hmmm...curious. That was not the first thing that came to mind...hmmm...!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (03:58)", "body": "Clean, dirty, warm, cold - I never care. I bite them too!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (09:02)", "body": "uh oh... methinks I posted in the wrong topic then... *silly grin* oops!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (12:51)", "body": "You were thinking in screwing terms again, weren't you?? \ufffdbiggest vicar frown\ufffd"}, {"response": 39, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (14:42)", "body": "*quivering bottom lip* why yes, ma'am... i was"}, {"response": 40, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 24, 1999 (01:10)", "body": "Good for you, mah son!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Sep  8, 2000 (11:51)", "body": "Well, to get things in here back to a Scottish tack again..... How about some Nessie watching??? Just click on the link below and it'll take you straight to the underwater and surface web cams!!!! Shout loudly if you see anything!!! http://www.lochness.scotland.net/camera.cfm"}, {"response": 42, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Sep  8, 2000 (11:53)", "body": "Here's the latest reported sighting - from that very web cam!!! http://www.lochness.scotland.net/sightings_nora.htm travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 35, "subject": "Springfield and other Illinois places", "response_count": 10, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "KarenR", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (09:27)", "body": "Oh, this ought to be good. Once, while taking a joy ride, outside of C-U, my friends and I emptied our ashtray in Pesotum (not sure of spelling). BTW, the Octoberfest in Arthur or was it Gibson was nice. ;-D"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (09:52)", "body": "I see some very cool events coming up there and I'm mulling over taking a trip up there around the end of this month: Look at all this stuff going on in Springfield: Sept. 24-25 Smokey Joe's Caf\ufffd. Sangamon Auditorium, University of Illinois-Springfield. (Fri. 8pm, Sat. 2 & 8pm) This Broadway musical celebration of roch & roll features the songs of Lieber and Stoller, from \"Hound Dog\" to \"On Broadway.\" Admission. (217) 206-6160 or (800) 207-6960. www.uis.edu/~onstage Sep 24-26 Springfield Air Rendezvous 17th Annual Air Show. Capitol Airport. (On Saturday & Sunday gates open 8am with flight activities to begin at 11am) Family oriented and affordable, world class air show with professional aerobatic entertainment, static aircraft displays on the ground, concessions, children's area. Hangar parties both Friday night, 24th (night air show only) and Saturday night, 25th. Admission. (217) 789-4400. www.springfield-il.com/airshow Sep 24-26 The Sunshine Boys. Springfield Theatre Centre. (see September 17-19) Sep 24-26 Fall Home & Remodel Show. Prairie Capitol Convention Center. (Time TBA) The latest in home building and remodeling, landscaping, and decorating. Admission. (217) 698-4941 25 Old State Capitol Antique Show. Old State Capitol. (10am-4pm) In cooperation with the Downtown Springfield Fall Festival. Free. (217) 785-7960 25 Downtown Springfield Fall Festival. Downtown around the Old State Capitol. (10am-5pm) A family event with food, entertainment, scarecrows, Mr. Lincoln, the history-mystery contest, crafts, antiques and more. Free. (217) 544-1723. 25-26 Edwards Place Fine Crafts Fair. Springfield Art Association. Annual craft fair of 70 fine craft exhibitors. Food, children's activities, family entertainment. Free. (217) 523-2631 26 Raise the Roof. Iles House, 628 S. Seventh St. (1-4pm) A family event with a medicine man show; 19th century children's games, exhibits, food, and music. Free. (217) 753-4900, ext. 234."}, {"response": 3, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Fri, Sep 17, 1999 (11:33)", "body": "Not far from Springfield, IL is a place called New Salem. Lincoln lived there and it has been kept in the same condition as when he was a resident. All the cliche log cabins, but I thought it was cool when I went there on an 8th grade field trip. People work there in the historical garb of the day and make lye soap and they serve 19th century food like \"corn dodgers.\" You can also get a hot dog and a coke if going pioneer doesn't appeal to you. It is run something like historic Williamsburg in Virgin a. You walk around town and feel as though you've stepped back in time."}, {"response": 4, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, Sep 18, 1999 (15:22)", "body": "Springfield - hey, I *KNOW* Springfield! It's a DUSTY place, where the SIMPSONS live, right?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sat, Sep 18, 1999 (18:09)", "body": "In the words of Robin Williams (as Mork) \"Humor! Arr arr arr.\""}, {"response": 6, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Sep 20, 1999 (13:20)", "body": "Ok, so it wasn't brilliant as far as HAWAIIAN humor goes, but for German humor, it wasn't TOO bad... And I love Dusty Springfield! And Marge's fambly, too!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 20, 1999 (14:25)", "body": "...I thought it was cute and clever. Hawaiian humor consists of murdering the English language in new and more inventive ways..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Mon, Sep 20, 1999 (14:42)", "body": "... more than any German could come up with? Give us examples!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 20, 1999 (15:31)", "body": "I think each non-English language spawns its own variety of fractured English - one more delightful than the next, and all enchanting. I think I will let John have a crack at this first. I can think of some \"for-instances\", but you'd need to be here to understand them....lemme think about it..."}, {"response": 10, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Sep 20, 1999 (15:56)", "body": "...but not too long! travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 36, "subject": "Namibia", "response_count": 149, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (02:14)", "body": "Marcia, I have the first picture that I want to post. Could I send it to you to put in? PLEEEZE?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (06:10)", "body": "Congratulations, Ree. Namibia now has a place in our collective consciousness."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (10:38)", "body": "Wow, my lovely virtual wife has posted a topic about Namibia, I love it, I love it, I love it."}, {"response": 4, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (13:24)", "body": "Yeah! You'll love it even more when I show you all the lovely Himba women!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (14:34)", "body": "Bring them on without delay, please."}, {"response": 6, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (16:44)", "body": "Ree, you may send me anything without asking first - just put where you want it posted and it will be done with great pleasure!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (16:47)", "body": "John, do you think I need to start one about Hawaii - or have we spread it throughout the rest of the Spring ad nauseum already?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (04:18)", "body": "YYYYYEEEEAAAAHHH!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (07:54)", "body": "Please, if there isn't a HI topic in travel, please create one! That's a serious omission if there isn't one."}, {"response": 10, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (11:16)", "body": "This is how the Namib Desert looks just after sunrise...Ree Walton"}, {"response": 11, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (11:20)", "body": "How incredibly spectacular! Watching this download for the first time is awesome. Thanks, Ree...You send, I'll post!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (11:46)", "body": "woow! That's amazing... a red river of glowing sand..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (12:58)", "body": "I really is amazing. Also, when you look at how small the dunes beneath appear, you'll get a good idea of how high the dune I was standing on is. It is called Dune 7, and it is the only dune in the Namib which is too big to shift. And imagine this: every time you manage to drag yourself all the way up that old monster, you see a completely different dune pattern beneath."}, {"response": 14, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (13:56)", "body": "*giggle* yes Ree-head, you really are amazing! and lookit you... coming out of your shy shell and all!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (15:22)", "body": "Totally amazing! I thought it was taken from an airplane. Not only is it beautiful, but I must add my compliments to the photog as well. There's nothing like an artist's perspective! That photo is worthy of National Geographic ."}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (23:30)", "body": "What is the ethnic makeup of Namibia? What are the tribes?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (04:03)", "body": "WHHHOOOOOOPPPPSS!! Sorry, no that was really not meant as an 'I'! Marcia, the photo was an accident, really! Normally they don't look anything like that! The biggest tribe is the Ovambo, followed by the Oshivambo who live mostly up north in the Caprivi strip. Then you get the Hereros and the Himbas who live in the central parts. The other tribes are pretty small. You get the Kalahari Bushmen, the Namas, the Damaras, the Hottentots, and some other tribes as well - I just can't think of all the names now. I'll try and find pictures."}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (09:14)", "body": "What are the major industries? Companies?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Sep 24, 1999 (12:30)", "body": "From Ree: This is Isa on an ostrich farm just outside the town where my mum lives. The farm is called 'Ombu' - the Herero word for ostrich."}, {"response": 20, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Fri, Sep 24, 1999 (16:32)", "body": "That's really cute! Is that in the Kalahari? I know the man feeding the ostrich is not a bushman, but it sure looks like desert land."}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (02:54)", "body": "That is one of the densest parts of the country!!! It's the savannah. The guy feeding the ostrich is a Herero; he was brilliant showing her how to feed them, and in the end she got to ride one! I'll try and find that photo as well."}, {"response": 22, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (07:50)", "body": "Cool. Ostrich jockey, eh?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (09:18)", "body": "What's your record in ostrich racing, ree?"}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (02:35)", "body": "I managed to stay on for about 20 strides - then it threw me like no horse has ever managed. The bad thing is, you can't stay down and feel your limbs to see if anything is broken, and whether everything is moving; you have to get up and RUN, 'cos ostriches have a nasty little habit of kicking the $hit out of one."}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (10:06)", "body": "I was just joking, but you really did ride an ostrich. I wish I had a picture of that."}, {"response": 26, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (12:45)", "body": "Don't - it was not a pretty sight! And broken ribs would be all you'd see on the picture; apart from my crying like a baby!!! ha-ha!!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (01:55)", "body": "WHY AMERICANS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO TRAVEL The following are actual stories provided by travel agents: I had someone ask for an aisle seat so that their hair wouldn't get messed up by being near the window. A client called in inquiring about a package to Hawaii. After going over all the cost info, she asked, \"Would it be cheaper to fly to California and then take the train to Hawaii?\" A man called, furious about a Florida package we did. I asked what was wrong with the vacation in Orlando. He said he was expecting an ocean-view room. I tried to explain that is not possible, since Orlando is in the middle of the state. He replied, \"Don't lie to me. I looked on the map and Florida is a very thin state.\" I got a call from a man who asked, \"Is it possible to see England from Canada?\" I said, \"No.\" He said \"But they look so close on the map.\" A nice lady just called. She needed to know how it was possible that her flight from Detroit left at 8:20am and got into Chicago at 8:33am. I tried to explain that Michigan was an hour ahead of Illinois, but she could not understand the concept of time zones. Finally I told her the plane went very fast, and she bought that! I just got off the phone with a man who asked, \"How do I know which plane to get on?\" I asked him what exactly he meant, which he replied, \"I was told my flight number is 823, but none of these darn planes have numbers on them.\" A business man called and had a question about the documents he needed in order to fly to China. After a lengthy discussion about passports, I reminded him he needed a visa. \"Oh no I don't, I've been to China many times and never had to have one of those.\" I double checked and sure enough, his stay required a visa. When I told him this he said, \"Look, I've been to China four times and every time they have accepted my American Express.\""}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (13:03)", "body": "ha-ha!!! You are echoeing all over the place, Mr Burnett!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (13:56)", "body": "Yes, I am. I've seen these people and cringe when I do. But I understand that's only part of what gives Americans such a bad name in other nations."}, {"response": 30, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (14:09)", "body": "See, Ree...there are Stupid tourists all over - not just bothering the National Park Service Rangers (as in \"is this island completely surrounded by water?\"). I've seen 'um too...!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (15:05)", "body": "Marcia, did you really hear a dolt ask that?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (15:15)", "body": "..a dolt adult...and David actually was asked that very question...followed by \"Is it the same ocean on the other side of the island?\""}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 29, 1999 (12:54)", "body": "HA! Brilliant! I did a really stupid tourist thing in Manchester this time though. I spent my last 2 days in a little hotel on the far side of the Whitworth gallery. I wanted to go into town, so I got on the bus and asked the driver if he was going to the city centre. He nodded. So I asked what the name of the stop was where I had to get of. And he looked at me with that 'DUH!'-look on his face. Then I knew what the name of the stop was!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 29, 1999 (18:48)", "body": "It could have been some street name...that was a perfectly legitimate question. I might also have asked...!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Sep 29, 1999 (21:50)", "body": "Some bus drivers have absolutely no compassion for out-of-towners who ask perfectly legitimate questions. Sounds like the stereotype of the snooty and condescending French waiter. Of course, I'd be pissed, too, if people called me \"Garcon\" all day."}, {"response": 36, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (18:02)", "body": "Neat topic, Riette!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Oct  4, 1999 (08:57)", "body": "THanks, Autumn! I need to put in more photos though. I'm just so damned lazy..."}, {"response": 38, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Oct  4, 1999 (18:24)", "body": "Scan'um and I'll post'um!!!"}, {"response": 39, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Oct 14, 1999 (13:45)", "body": "Ree, have you checked out africa.com. They're running a special on Namibia right now, and I thought of you."}, {"response": 40, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct 20, 1999 (06:03)", "body": "THANKS, Maggie!! Fabulous!"}, {"response": 41, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Oct 21, 1999 (11:20)", "body": "How was it?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct 21, 1999 (12:16)", "body": "africa.com is a very interesting and informative web site. Thanks, Maggie, for telling us about it!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 21, 1999 (13:28)", "body": "Where IS Maggie?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (09:16)", "body": "What did you think of the Namibia coverage on that site, Ree Ree?"}, {"response": 45, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (09:43)", "body": "To be honest I didn't look at it in detail - it seemed to mention all the popular places. I paid more attention to the countries that I still want to visit, like Egypt, Tanzania and Kenya. Most of all I want to go to Na\ufffdrobi and from there do a 8-10 day safari; I've always wanted to see the Kilimandjaro (how does one say it in English?) for real. Just imagine this huge Alp lost somewhere in the middle of nowhere in Africa. It must be like a dream come true."}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (13:24)", "body": "When are you going back to Africa next?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (22:45)", "body": "Ree, the only place I have seen Maggie post other than once on one of my topics in the past few weeks was on Phinished conference - she is laboring to complete her degree, and we may just no hear from her till she thinks she has that part finished to her (and her professors') satisfaction! We wish her well!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct 27, 1999 (03:04)", "body": "Defenitely. GOOD LUCK, Maggie! Terry, early December I'm going to London with Chris as a sort of birthday present (it's my favourite city in the world), but somehow I also have to manage a stopover in Glasgow to deliver a painting to the Scot who commissioned it for his new house. AFter that I've got a Cyprus trip planned for February; I was there 5 years ago, and have always wanted to go back to show the girls. So, that's what we're going to do next. In about May or so I want to take a long weekend sometime to go to London with sa - a mummy-big-girl thing, to go see a musical together, because she's a music/dance nut. And in June or July a train journey to friends in Germany, because Elza loves trains. That means we'll probably be in Africa late summer or early autumn when the year's studies have been completed. Have you got any trips planned for the next year?"}, {"response": 49, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Oct 27, 1999 (14:33)", "body": "Hi I'm back! Thanks for the concern. Yes, I am laboring on the thesis. Ree, I'm working on some Namibia data right now. Once it's in a decent state I'll send you a copy for your comments. I'm doing an overview on the language situation in sub_Saharan Africa and the languages used in education - a massive table! But there's also a couple of Namibia papers I've been working on. Sounds like you've got some fun travelling to do Ree! I always wanted to go to Cyprus."}, {"response": 50, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (05:32)", "body": "I'd love to read your work on Namibia, that would be very interesting. But the stuff on sub-Saharan Africa and the languages would interest me a great deal as well - that is, if YOU don't mind. I love learning languages, and finding context in and around them, as well their history and the way they evolve continuously. It's just fascinating."}, {"response": 51, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (09:03)", "body": "What languages are you fluent in Reehead?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (12:59)", "body": "Afrikaans, English, German, Flemish, Dutch. The last 2 don't count though, because it doesn't take much to learn them when you know Afrikaans and German. I speak some Herero, but it's slowly going, because I never practice it anymore. I also know a little zulu from when I visited the Ndebele artists (all women) of the Natal in South AFrica - that's a REALLY beautiful language. I'm trying to locate a zulu person here who can teach me more, but so far haven't had ANY luck. Nama is also a very nice language, with a rather erotic way of expressing things - I know a little of that. Next year I'll be studying Latin as part of my Law course, and that I'm alr ady working on. It's great, and a language that I WANT to become fluent in. And I want to learn Greek. How about you? Do you like languages, Terry, or are you more a person for numbers? I wonder why people who are good in languages are normally not SO good in numbers and vice versa."}, {"response": 53, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (14:13)", "body": "Wow! I'm impressed Ree! I'm trying to work on my French right now so I can feel more comfortable in Mali next year. I find it so difficult to learn languages out of context. They also seem to disappear if I'm not using them. I never did learn Latin at school, but I think I'd find it really hard because it's abstract rather than concrete. In the sense that I can't hear it everyday, and just have to learn lists of words. I tried that with Greek which I did a year of at college and had a really hard tim learning lists of words. Maybe I just have a memory problem!!! In the table I've just done Namibia (to my surprise!!) came out as the most linguistically diverse in sub-Saharan Africa using the formula of 'largest language group as a percentage of the total population'. My listing has 28 languages for Namibia! That's just to whet your appetite - more later."}, {"response": 54, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (13:26)", "body": "How embarassing. All I know is a tiny bit of high school French. Hey, but Ree Ree didnt' list French in her list so I feel a little better. I think you have to travel and use languages to learn them."}, {"response": 55, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (13:39)", "body": "Some Hawaiian, more Spanish but not enough, and a few words in Japanese, Welsh (I can read it more than I can ever hope to speak it)...but like most Americans I am monolingual...*sigh*"}, {"response": 56, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (13:42)", "body": "Terry, I think if each state in the US spoke a different language, we would be better linguists. In Europe that is the case and they have to learn amost by osmosis if they move about the continent at all. How lovely that must be! Gi speaks several languages, as well as writes in them proficiently."}, {"response": 57, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (01:30)", "body": "That's right. If one grows up with alot of different languages around, then learning them is just something you DO - you don't think about it. And that's the key to learning languages, I think; you mustn't think it, you must feel it. In Namibia EVERYBODY speaks at least 2 or 3 languages - most people (especially the black people) speak more. With people who grow up in countries where only one language dominates it must be far more difficult to develop an ear for languages - therefore one has to rely he vily on memory when learning a new language, and that must be pretty tricky, I imagine. Also pronunciation must be so much more difficult when your ear is not accustomed to unfamiliar forms of speech. When I learn a new language now the vocabulary and pronunciation comes really quickly, because for most words I can find a word with a similar meaning in another language, and with a sound that can remind me of how the new word will sound - and so make an association without much effort at all. Even now with Latin. Terry, you're right: I don't speak French. I like the language, but everybody learns French and German and Italian and so on. I know only ordinary sorts of languages; I've decided taht from now on I only want to learn more unusual ones."}, {"response": 58, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (04:07)", "body": "But I would imagine picking up French would be a breeze for you."}, {"response": 59, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (10:21)", "body": "Did you learn a click language Ree? We used a few Xhosa and Zulu words in phonetics - even learnt a Zulu click song."}, {"response": 60, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (13:01)", "body": "Oh, the famous Miriam Makeba song! I love that one, and she is one of my favourite singers. Zulu is SUCH a musical language that all the clicks just happen in rhythm. I don't know any Xhosa though. The most fascinating click language is Bushman though. I don't know it, but have heard it alot, and a bushman girl told me that how the click is pronounced also determines the meaning. The Namas and Khoikhois also speak a click lanuage. Nama is very earthy and quite sensual. They live in the Namib desert and in the spring they go and dig in the sand for !Naras (! is how they write their clicks, whereas the Bushmen use ! or #). A !Nara is is a type of wild melon, with thorns on its skin, and they use the sweet-tasting pulp, which has a strong herbal smell and taste, to make soup, sweets, jam and even pancakes with. Often they also dry the seeds in the sun and sell it to dealers in to ns on the coast, who export them as a delicacy. Well, in their tribal culture, they have a song of praise that they sing to the !Nara around the fire at night before going out to look for them in the morning. I can't quite remember the words, but in English it goes something like this: You round food With many thorns You many-breasted Foster mother of our children Even if I am far away I will think of you You food of my ancestors I will never forget you. I think it is a beautiful way of expressing the significance of the fruit in their tribal existence."}, {"response": 61, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (15:14)", "body": "It is beautiful. Hawaiian has chants to the food (and gods responsible for providing them)are almost as eloquent. Perhaps John could reel one off for us when he is finished his radio program today... I do not have any handy and am not sure where in this library of mine I might find one."}, {"response": 62, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (16:16)", "body": "Interesting! I don't know Miriam Makeba and although we can 'sing' the song I don't know what it means!!! (dangerous that!) It's been passed on by one generation of phonetics students to another - so it's probably corrupted! (chinese whispers). I've not heard of that kind of melon. Have you tried it?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Oct 31, 1999 (12:41)", "body": "Yes, the !Nara also grew on my grandfather's farm. It needs almost no water to grow. The taste is indeed a strong, herbal one, but we used to peel it, stick in the freezer for a few hours, then put sugar on before eating it. VERY refreshing when you hit 42\ufffdC."}, {"response": 64, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Oct 31, 1999 (16:52)", "body": "mmm sounds nice."}, {"response": 65, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov  1, 1999 (13:14)", "body": "It sure is. Except if you confuse it with a wild watermelon - which is more bitter than ANYTHING one can imagine. Once I picked up a wild watermelon in the field, thinking it was a !Nara, because they look pretty much the same. It was hot, I had no more water, so I made a hole in the skin, and started to drink the juice. I literally couldn't breathe, and started gasping - that's how bitter it was."}, {"response": 66, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, Nov  1, 1999 (16:37)", "body": "ooh nasty. Our girls liked 'green' mangoes - do they grow in namibia too?"}, {"response": 67, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 1999 (08:03)", "body": "No, we don't have those. What is the difference between 'green' mangoes and other mangoes? We don't have any kind of mangoes - unless we grow them with care in the garden; the climate is far too dry for them to grow like they do in most other parts in Africa. But, because they grow so easily in other parts. we import them very cheaply."}, {"response": 68, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 1999 (14:19)", "body": "Sorry, green mangoes are just unripe ones. Are they sour! - but the the girls ( and m9st of the local kids) loved them. They still won't eat ripe ones!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 1999 (14:26)", "body": ";=}"}, {"response": 70, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Nov  3, 1999 (02:16)", "body": "OH! That's weird, Maggie! Why won't they eat ripe mangoes?? No, actually I know already. Because kids are just weird. My grandma always got upset because we'd never eat oranges from the trees - only lemons and limes. I think I'd DIE if I had to do that now."}, {"response": 71, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Nov  3, 1999 (14:56)", "body": "What's the wierdest thing you've ever eaten????"}, {"response": 72, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Wed, Nov  3, 1999 (15:04)", "body": "Meat - just kiddin' Has anyone eaten snails (*shiver*) or frogs ? Can any plant you can think of eating be nearly as disgusting as eating special animals? (Gawd, this should teach me getting vegetarian...)"}, {"response": 73, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Nov  4, 1999 (09:52)", "body": "I've had snails - they're quite good. But when I found out they were snails I didn't like them anymore. And frogs I've not had. In Namibia you get these really huge ants, called 'balla-biter' ants. When I was a kid I used to eat them with red hot peppers from the tree. It was the worst sour and burn together imaginable, and I loved it. I also stole onions from my grandma's garden, and ate them raw. My 3 year-old is like that too. The more spicey a thing, the bigger the chance she'll eat it."}, {"response": 74, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Nov  4, 1999 (13:48)", "body": "We had fried grasshoppers (?locusts?) in Cameroon, they tasted a bit like crispy bacon? They also had these huge grubs which they fried. I declined. I've never had frogs or snails, although we used to eat Whelks when I was a kid which are sort of sea snails. Do they count? I only remember them tasting salty."}, {"response": 75, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Nov  4, 1999 (14:18)", "body": "Anyone ever eat coagualted raw pig blood? I have by mistake (thought it was something else at a baby luau) and it is the nastiest thing I can recall eating. Ate raw limpets, also at a luau. I refuse to eat the raw crab or raw sea urchin since they are bottom scavengers who eat decayed \"stuff\" off the bottom of the tide pools...Eeesh! (I know - so do Lobsters!!!)"}, {"response": 76, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Nov  5, 1999 (09:05)", "body": "Oh, how utterly FOUL!!! Both of you! PEW! Go wash out yer gobs!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Nov  5, 1999 (14:20)", "body": "Sorry I started it!!!! Now what else can we talk about?"}, {"response": 78, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov  5, 1999 (17:49)", "body": "Wash out their gobs? What in creation is a gob? (so they'll at least know what to wash) Or do I dare ask?"}, {"response": 79, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov  5, 1999 (19:31)", "body": "(Terry, I think it is your mouth, with which you gobble vittles...but not entirely sure, especially when it comes from our little Ree...*grin*) Did you never have your mouth washed out with soap?!"}, {"response": 80, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Nov  6, 1999 (06:41)", "body": "The mouth it is. Terry, honestly! You can be so filthy-minded at times ..."}, {"response": 81, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Nov  6, 1999 (07:54)", "body": "I guess our colloquial ENGLISH just isn't understood! I did wash my daughters mouth out once when I'd said I would if she swore again at me, and she did, so I had to!"}, {"response": 82, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov  6, 1999 (11:05)", "body": "What! You mean a clean cut kid like me?"}, {"response": 83, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Nov  6, 1999 (13:03)", "body": "For a clean cut kid you're pretty hairy, Terry!! Maggie, that's cool! My mum always says, Never threaten them with the kind of punishment you can't carry out, 'cos they WILL find out and make best use of the factI' It sure works with mine! At this stage the most effective punishment is to take their Tom&Jerry tv time away in the evenings. But I must admit that bribery also works wonders...."}, {"response": 84, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Nov  6, 1999 (15:00)", "body": "Better still, do not threaten...Promise! It worked for me, and he knew it! TV is great deprevation and so is scrubbing the porch...an extra time!"}, {"response": 85, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov  6, 1999 (18:31)", "body": "OK, hairily uncut kid then."}, {"response": 86, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Nov  6, 1999 (19:45)", "body": "...but cute, nonetheless...*smile*"}, {"response": 87, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Nov  7, 1999 (03:09)", "body": "Yep. Terry's cool."}, {"response": 88, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov  8, 1999 (14:57)", "body": "It must be the mouldy cheese you keep sending him that is HIS *cute* secret"}, {"response": 89, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 1999 (07:27)", "body": "Hey! That happened only once - when I sent the video, that is. And I bet he fed it to Tami's cat!!!"}, {"response": 90, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 1999 (10:27)", "body": "No, I ate it except the moldy parts. I didn't feed it to the cats. It was delicious."}, {"response": 91, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 1999 (11:57)", "body": "What kind of cheese was it? (Other than mouldy...)"}, {"response": 92, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 1999 (12:02)", "body": "Some kind of very good Swiss cheese, it had a name that evades me."}, {"response": 93, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 1999 (12:10)", "body": "(I figured as much.) Were there holes in it? (The Swiss are very good at this sort of thing, and they made oodles of varieties...I am sure it was delicious!)"}, {"response": 94, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 1999 (14:35)", "body": "OK guys(and gals), back to Namibia - Riette, some questions for you to help my research. A while back you said Ovambo is the predominate group. I found that in my listings it's called Kwanyama ( and also Ochikwanyama, Kuanyama, Humba, Kwanjama, Kwancama, Otjimbo, and Owanbo) Is Ovambo the correct Namibian name for the language? Does it mean both people and language? I also have it listed as an 'official' language whereas Herero is not. What do you think? I also can't find any figures for numbers in N mibia, apart from 421,000 in Angola. Is it mainly a second language or are there lots of mother tongue speakers? That'll do for now. Thanks a bundle."}, {"response": 95, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 1999 (14:55)", "body": "WEW! The Ovambo people and their language are officially called 'Ovambo' in Namibia. Herero is indeed not recognized as an official language, and as far as I'm aware only Ovambo is an official black African language. I think that when Ovambo is spoken it is mainly as a mother tongue. It is recognized as an official language because of the sheer number of Ovambo people in Namibia, not necessarily because it is universally known. I have quite a long article on the Ovambo here, but unfortunately it doesn't contain numbers either. Shall I post it anyway?"}, {"response": 96, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Nov 10, 1999 (14:41)", "body": "If you don't mind posting it then yes, please (I'll email you). I wonder if there's a site somewhere with figures. I tried Unesco.org and it's an interesting place to visit! (Unesco I meant). I have a facinating book on hand at the mement by Putz called Discrimination through language in Africa, perspectives on the Namibian experience, published by Mouton de Gruyter, 1995. Another place you might like to try sometime is oneworld.(org?) Its a platform for lots of NGOs (non-governmental organisations) and is an absolute fund of knowledge about all sorts of things from environmental issues, to countries, languages etc. I'm in a foul mood I just spent all afternoon reformatting my hard disk, lost all my links, although my data's backed up. Now I need to learn to use my new Zip drive properly! Grrrr"}, {"response": 97, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 11, 1999 (10:44)", "body": "Visto gives you 20mbs of disk space with which to store files, you may want to use this as one of your backup sources also. Link from http://www.spring.net to Visto."}, {"response": 98, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Nov 11, 1999 (14:25)", "body": "Thanks Terry, I'll follow that up. I'm getting paranoid about my research data now - it's getting to critical mass stage!!!"}, {"response": 99, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (12:00)", "body": "That's good though! It's better to have to sift through material than suffering from lack thereof."}, {"response": 100, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Nov 14, 1999 (14:52)", "body": "Ree - on the subject of languages. Try http:///www.kli.org/KLIhome.html and tell me what you think..... I think it's a challenge! I also found http:///www.linguasphere.org/ which I think you may enjoy. i tried some of the spin off links from there too. Good luck!"}, {"response": 101, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (04:34)", "body": "Thanks, Maggie. I'm trying it, but neither of the two links work. Can you check the urls again?"}, {"response": 102, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (15:33)", "body": "Ree, try them with just two // http://www.kli.org/KLIhome.html http:///www.linguasphere.org/ That is why I usually copy and paste URLs so that does not happen!"}, {"response": 103, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (15:34)", "body": "http://www.linguasphere.org/ SORRY!!!"}, {"response": 104, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (16:46)", "body": "Thanks Marcia, I hadn't noticed the slip up."}, {"response": 105, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (18:42)", "body": "No problem *smile* After working on a web page (my first independent one) all day, I learned to look carefully at what they need to have in place before you can access the site to which you want to go."}, {"response": 106, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov 23, 1999 (04:00)", "body": "WOW; is this your webpage, Maggie? I need more time to go into all the links, but it looks really cool! And this is the stuff you're writing a thesis on?"}, {"response": 107, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Nov 23, 1999 (04:37)", "body": "No, it isn't my web page - haven't got round to it yet!!! :-) Linguasphere is a great site for language related materials. My thesis is on language and education in sub'saharan africa with particular focus on Mali. Did you try http://www.oneworld.org its another good spin off site for country info. You could also try http://www.africanews.org which is a newsgathering service. I use it to keep up to date on the countries I'm interested in. Well, what about Klingon then? Is it 'outlandish' enough for you???????"}, {"response": 108, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Dec  1, 1999 (22:25)", "body": "Namibia Voting Ends, Nujoma Expected to Win WINDHOEK, Namibia (Reuters) - Voting in Namibia's presidential and parliamentary elections officially ended Wednesday amid questions about voting irregularities. Voting at most of the southwestern African nation's 900 polling stations ended at 2 p.m. EST although those still in lines at that hour would be allowed to vote. ``Officially, voting in the 1999 election is over,'' Electoral Commission spokesman Peter Mietzner told reporters. Vote counting would begin at 1 a.m. EST Thursday with the first result coming later in the day. Political observers expect the ruling SWAPO and President Sam Nujoma to win comfortably, although the government has faced criticism. Earlier, opposition leaders cried foul in the elections but voting officials shrugged off the protests as ``some hiccups.'' Independent observers said they were investigating the complaints. The National Society for Human Rights (NSHR) said it had received reports of irregularities, including people voting more than once, from its observers and opposition party officials in 24 polling stations across northern Namibia. ``There are allegations that many people were able to vote more than once,'' NSHR director Phil ya Nangoloh told Reuters. Opposition leaders said their party officials were barred from many polling stations in the Caprivi Strip and Owamboland. ``It was not isolated cases, but a trend to refuse COD agents entry into polling stations,'' Elizabeth Amukugo, a spokesman for the opposition Congress of Democrats, told reporters. If the reports are confirmed, Nangoloh said the elections in the affected areas should be re-run. ``If that is true how can an election in those polling stations be free and fair?'' Owamboland is a stronghold of Nujoma's ruling SWAPO party which used its overwhelming majority in the last parliament to remove a two-term limit from the constitution to allow Nujoma to stand again. NUJOMA EXPECTED TO RETAIN PRESIDENCY While Nujoma, 70, is widely expected to retain the presidency, voters are angry at his government's failure to dent a 35 percent unemployment rate, rising corruption and involvement in a protracted war in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Opposition parties say another two-thirds majority would allow SWAPO to further tailor the constitution to its advantage. Director of Elections Joram Rukambe said some opposition officials did not have the correct papers when they tried to enter the polling station. ``There was nothing intentional to bar people from these facilities,'' he told reporters. ``Here and there we have experienced some hiccups,'' Rukambe said, but he believed there was confidence in the electoral system. Opposition leaders have also complained that ink used to mark voters' thumbs could be washed off, allowing multiple voting. Rukambe admitted there had been problems with the ink, but said it was not widespread. The opposition has also questioned the accuracy of the voters' roll which showed a sharp rise in the number registered. Uhuru Dempers, director of the independent Namibia NGO Forum, said they were trying to verify the allegations and would make a report Friday. Dempers said he was encouraged by the high voter turnout, expected to exceed the 54 percent recorded in the last election in 1994, but opposition parties say the voters' list contains dead people, incorrect names and duplications. About 878,000 Namibians are eligible to vote, out of a population of 1.7 million people, up sharply from the 654,000 registered voters in 1994. A member of an international election observer group agreed the voters' list might not be accurate. ``It does seem quite high, but I don't think it's part of a massive conspiracy,'' the observer said."}, {"response": 109, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Dec 24, 1999 (14:06)", "body": "Send Page Chef Gets Life for Cooking Wife WINDHOEK, Namibia (Reuters) - A German chef was given life imprisonment in Namibia for murdering his wife, dismembering her body and cooking her bones before hiding them in the roof of their house. Namibia's High Court sentenced Thomas Florin, a 32-year-old unemployed chef and carpenter, after convicting him of killing his 30-year-old wife Monika last year in their home in the coastal resort of Swakopmund. The judge said Florin should spend at least 15 years behind bars before being eligible for parole and added eight weeks to the sentence for violating a human corpse. ``You removed the flesh from the bones and discarded it together with the internal organs,'' the newspaper The Namibian reported the judge as saying when sentencing Florin on Wednesday. ``Then you cooked the skeletal remains to minimize the rotting and concealed them in the ceiling of your house,'' the judge said. Prosecutors told the court that Florin killed his wife after she threatened to leave him and take their two infant children back to Germany. Friends tipped off police after her disappearance and Florin was arrested in the capital, Windhoek, on his way to the airport. He was initially charged with wrongfully transporting 10 live tortoises, and the judge added a further four weeks to his sentence for the illegal possession of wildlife products."}, {"response": 110, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, Dec 27, 1999 (13:24)", "body": "I can see why you put that here rather than the other conference, Marcia - YUK!"}, {"response": 111, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Dec 27, 1999 (13:44)", "body": "I thought about \"news outside the spring\"...but I thought it would be best understood by people who have been there and know the culture...rather than causing racist comments and tarring the entire populace with the same brush. I am awaiting Ree's comments."}, {"response": 112, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Dec 30, 1999 (17:07)", "body": "I'm sorry, but I can't seem to keep from chuckling!"}, {"response": 113, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Jan  7, 2000 (12:53)", "body": "Received this today, thought you might be interested. From: Basler Afrika Bibliographien Basler Afrika Bibliographien (BAB) - Southern Africa Library and Namibia Resource Centre in Switzerland - has a new homepage: http://www.baslerafrika.ch Initially, our catalogue of periodicals is accessible whilst the full catalogue will be available shortly."}, {"response": 114, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jan  7, 2000 (15:19)", "body": "Thanks for posting that, Maggie...I am hoping Ree will see it and post again on the conferences. We miss her!"}, {"response": 115, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jan  7, 2000 (15:27)", "body": "Oh, and Ree, if I offended you by my post about the nasty man who killed his wofe, I meant nothing personal. In fact, more British seem to do that than anyone esle I know, and I am half English!!!"}, {"response": 116, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Jan 11, 2000 (12:46)", "body": "Post 109 - probably reflects not Namibian customs, but rather German ingenuity in disposing of evidence. I seem to faintly remember having seen something about this case on the telly. I can understand killing somebody in a rage, but acts as organized as this, the effort invested... Enough about this. 15 years and twelve weeks. Does anybody have knowledge of the state the Namibian correction system is in?"}, {"response": 117, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Jan 11, 2000 (12:48)", "body": "(BTW, the level of ingenuity mentioned above is indicated if you compare the amout of thought and work invested to the result = 0 .)"}, {"response": 118, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jan 11, 2000 (16:05)", "body": "I noted that I said he killed his wofe...Must not confuse wife with Wolf. Yup - definitely premeditated..."}, {"response": 119, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Feb 10, 2000 (13:08)", "body": "Received this today, thought it might be of interest to someone Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 From: Martine Prins, Univ. Wuerzburg Namibia Workshop in Germany. We hereby would like to announce that a Namibia- workshop will be organised in Wuerzburg/Germany, June 29-30, 2000. The workshop will elaborate on the topic Namibia: developments in the former homelands since independence. We cordially invite under-graduates, graduates and postgraduates working in the social sciences and interested in Namibia to attend the workshop. Participants will have the possibility to present their own work in an informal setting, which will prompt further discussion. For more information: Martine Prins or Eberhard Rothfuss Bayerische Julius-Maximilians Universitet Wuerzburg Department of Geography Am Hubland 97074 Wuerzburg Germany Tel: + 49 931 888 5551 Fax: + 49 931 888 5556"}, {"response": 120, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 10, 2000 (13:50)", "body": "Thanks, Maggie. It is always hoped that Ri\ufffdtte will see this and post something...even just to let us know she is alright..."}, {"response": 121, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Feb 10, 2000 (15:40)", "body": "W\ufffdrzburg is not too far from Frankfurt... Dunno, two hundred kilometers maybe. ;=}"}, {"response": 122, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 10, 2000 (17:05)", "body": "Is that another spelling for the place which was connected with Martin Luther? Lotsa really great Universities in your environs!"}, {"response": 123, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Feb 21, 2000 (17:30)", "body": "Uh, which place? Wartburg (hehe: wart-burg!), maybe? That's in Eastern Germany. Luther came through my area, too, when he went to the disputation in, where was that, Worms? He was accompanied by a man of the emperor, who was there to secure his security on the journey. This man's ceremonial bihander is kept in the county museum in the city they slept in."}, {"response": 124, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 21, 2000 (19:32)", "body": "I thought he ate worms...You know, the Diet ....never mind...(Yes, I do know better!) The emperor made him sleep with man with a bihander?! Alexander, that word is not in my dictionary and I am ever curious. What is a bihander?"}, {"response": 125, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (05:27)", "body": "Latest Namibia news from the United Nations: NAMIBIA: Border unrest affects immunization Insecurity along Namibia's northern border with Angola has affected polio immunization efforts and sparked fears about a renewed polio outbreak in the country, 'The Namibian' said on Thursday. Director of Primary Health Care, Maggy Nghatanga said: \"The fighting will contribute negatively to the immunization programme. We visited Rundu three weeks ago and our health workers are really frightened to go into remote areas for the immunization of the children.\" She said that long established health services between Divundu and Kongolo in the north had been closed because of the insecurity in the region. Nghatanga said that at present Namibia was polio free and that Angolan children entering the country were immunised before being sent to the Osire refugee camp. She said that last year a 65 percent immunization figure was recorded, but \"insecurity in the northeast would worsen these figures.\" NAMIBIA: Citizens want more protection Citizens of Gciriku in eastern Kavango have demanded that the Namibian Government restore security in their area, news reports said on Thursday. About 500 people on Wednesday marched to the Gciriku tribal office at Ndiyona, 100 km east of Rundu in northern Namibia, calling for urgent action to end cross-border raids by suspected UNITA rebels. According to 'The Namibian' the Gciriku area, which stretches for 90 km along the Kavango river, has borne the brunt of the attacks over the past three months. NAMIBIA: Accused Caprivi secessionist dies Alleged Caprivi secessionist Steven Mamili died in a Windhoek hospital at the weekend after apparently collapsing at Grootfontein prison where he had been in detention since August last year, an official of the Namibian Society for Human Rights (NSHR) confirmed to IRIN on Thursday. Mamili, 41, a former talk show host for the Namibian Broadcasting Corporation, was among the first group of about 100 political refugees from the northeastern Caprivi Strip who crossed into Botswana at the end of 1998. They claimed they feared for their lives because of their association with the secessionist movement led by Mishake Muyongo and Chief Boniface Mamili. For a detailed report see: http://www.reliefweb.int/IRIN/sa/countrystories/namibia/20000224.htm"}, {"response": 126, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Mar  1, 2000 (13:05)", "body": "Received this today and thought it might be of interest to this topic. From H-NET List for African History and Culture From: David Nolan, U.S. Military Academy \"Bergdama\" is an archaic term for the \"click-language\" speaking Damara people of north-central Namibia. They definitely exist both as a concept and on the ground. Physically, the Damara have the same general characteristics as other \"black\" Africans. Thus the uninitiated would not be able to distinguish a Damara from a Bantu-speaking Ovambo or Herero. Traditionally, the Damara were less economically developed than the millet-growing Ovambos living along the central Namibia-Angola border and the cattle herding Hereros of central Namibia (as well as their cousins, the Himbas of the far northwest). The Damaras traditionally raise goats and donkeys (for food) in the barren mountains (thus \"berg\" in Bergdama)northwest of Windhoek, west of Etosha National Park, and east of the Skeleton Coast. Unlike the Ovambo and Herero, the Damara speak a dialect of Khoisan, Namadamara, they share with the Nama people of southern Namibia. The Nama are descendants of the Khoi Khoi (\"Hottentot\") pastoralists that once populated the whole region. As a group, the Nama have lighter skin tones and quasi-oriental features, and thus look quite different from both the Damara and the Bantu-speaking peoples. In other words, the Damara and the Nama speak the same language, but appear physically distinct from each other. The Damara and Herero look the same, but speak entirely different languages. Based on my travels in Damaraland, Namaland and Hereroland in the early 1990's, I can verify that these generalizations correspond fairly closely with reality. One theory is that the Damara represent the genetic, if not the cultural, leading edge of the Western Bantu migration who adopted a Khoisan language, but did not extensively intermarry with the Khoi Khois. The Xhosa in South Africa, who have incorporated many Khoisan sounds into their own Bantu-based language, represent a similar phenomenon. Given their unique linguistic status, the Damara people have a relatively well-developed sense of ethnic identity and are not shy about advocating their political interests within Namibia's democratic system. In the past, they tended to support the opposition DTA party, although I do not know how the voting went in Damaraland in the 1999 elections. On the other hand, the most prominent Damara politician is Hage Geingob, Namibia's prime minister and a prominent leader of the dominant SWAPO party. The conventional wisdom in Namibia, however, is that as Geingob is not an Ovambo, he can never hope to succeed Sam Nujoma as president. Such is the nature of \"tribalist\" politics, even in as enlightened a place as Namibia (or the U.S.)."}, {"response": 127, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Mar  1, 2000 (15:46)", "body": "Very interesting, Maggie! Btw, I awoke to the horrific BBC hourly news this morning about a mother giving birth in a tree top due to floods in Mozambique. I most assuredly would not have survived - nor would my son have! I cannot get the image out of my head! I see American and France and UK have sent aid and money (very little by comparison to other things they spend money on...)"}, {"response": 128, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Mar  1, 2000 (16:31)", "body": "Mmm I saw that one too. It appears she was winched off just after - with a medic to cut the cord. Unbelievable. Yes, action is being taken, but our military are still dragging their feet. There was something on further rising of the flood earlier. I've got to the point where I can't watch."}, {"response": 129, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Mar  1, 2000 (16:42)", "body": "I immediately thought of you and your anguish last night. My heart and head were stricken by the scope of this misery, and I knew what you were feeling last night. I shall avoid wtching the news and turning on the BBC first thing in the morning. I just can't handle it."}, {"response": 130, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Mar  2, 2000 (13:05)", "body": "I'm glad I'm not alone!"}, {"response": 131, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar  2, 2000 (13:17)", "body": "I am sure you are not. It has even made our local evening news telecasts. You do what you can, then shut out the rest because it is just destructive after that. Big *hugs* for caring so much!"}, {"response": 132, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Mar 17, 2000 (13:39)", "body": "From UN IRIN news service NAMIBIA: Rocket attacks in Rundu At least two of four 122 mm rockets fired from Angola on Sunday landed near the high-density residential area of Sauyemwa, just one km from the tense northern Namibian border town of Rundu, 'The Namibian' reported this week. No one was injured in the attacks. The newspaper said the other two rockets, allegedly fired by Angolan UNITA rebels, hit an open space near a hut on the southern side of the Kehemu settlement on the outskirts of Rundu. The report added that when the shelling started, people who had gathered at a recreational spot near the town fled the \"Rundu Beach\". A Namibian Defence Force (NDF) spokesman confirmed the explosions, but added: \"There is nothing like war here in Rundu. Explosions don't mean people are fighting.\" Meanwhile, suspected UNITA rebels reportedly shot dead and robbed two people last Friday along the Trans-Caprivi highway when they attacked a government vehicle in the country's far northeast, 'The Namibian' said. An NDF spokesman told the newspaper that a group of between 10 and 20 attackers were involved in the incident. The report said the attack brings to 12 the number of known people shot dead in suspected UNITA attacks since Namibia allowed Angolan government forces to operate from its territory last November."}, {"response": 133, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Mar 21, 2000 (13:03)", "body": "NAMIBIA: Nujoma, new cabinet, sworn in JOHANNESBURG, 21 March (IRIN) - As Namibia marked the 10th anniversary of its independence on Tuesday, President Sam Nujoma was sworn in for a controversial third five-year term. At televised ceremonies in the capital, Windhoek, attended by South African President Thabo Mbeki and several other visiting heads of state, members of a new cabinet named at the weekend were also sworn in following the sweeping victory in last December's elections of Nujoma's ruling South West Africa People's Organisation (SWAPO). Among the dignitaries was the former Finnish president, Martti Ahtisaari, who helped steer Namibia to independence from South Africa in 1990 when he oversaw one of the most successful peacekeeping operations of the United Nations. Ahtisaari said that he was \"delighted\" to be back in Namibia to see the achievements made over the last 10 years. In his inauguration address, Nujoma, 70, said: \"The main objectives over the next five years for my government will be to accelerate the process of job creation by increasing support for small and medium scale enterprises.\" Nujoma, who has been in power since independence, also said his government had to tackle the spread of HIV/AIDS, unemployment, and access to better health care, education, water and electricity. Nujoma sought a controversial third term after his party removed a two-term limit from the constitution last year. In December he won 77 percent of the votes in the presidential race. SWAPO won 76 percent of the parliamentary seats, well above the two-thirds majority needed to change the constitution. \"The main goal of my government is for Namibians to achieve the standard of living comparable to that of developed countries by the year 2030,\" Nujoma said. Analysts in Namibia told IRIN that the costly deployment of Namibian troops in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and the decision last November to allow neighbouring Angola to use Namibian border bases to launch attacks against UNITA rebels had undermined confidence in Nujoma's government. [ENDS] IRIN-SA - Tel: +2711 880 4633 Fax: +2711 880 1421 e-mail: irin-sa@irin.org.za [This item is delivered in the English service of the UN's IRIN humanitarian information unit, but may not necessarily reflect the views of the United Nations. For further information, free subscriptions, or to change your keywords, contact e-mail: irin@ocha.unon.org or Web: http://www.reliefweb.int/IRIN . If you re-print, copy, archive or re-post this item, please retain this credit and disclaimer.]"}, {"response": 134, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Mar 21, 2000 (14:04)", "body": "Do you know anything about this new governement? Will it be an improvment on what they had before?"}, {"response": 135, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Mar 24, 2000 (13:58)", "body": "NAMIBIA: Amnesty International cites human rights abuses Amnesty International this week accused the Namibian and Angolan security forces, as well as the Angolan rebel movement, UNITA, of violating the rights of people in the volatile northern Namibian towns bordering war-torn Angola. Amnesty said civilians on both sides of the Okavango river, which forms the border between southeastern Angola and much of northeastern Namibia, had been subjected to extra-judicial killings, torture, arbitrary arrests, forcible deportations and beatings. The report is a sequel to a two-week investigation in the area by Amnesty's researchers last month. It said some civilians have \"disappeared\" without trace, while those suspected of assisting UNITA or of being illegal immigrants had been handed back to the Angolan authorities apparently without being given the opportunity to request asylum. \"Civilian life has been disrupted.\" the report said. For full details of the report, see: http://www.reliefweb.int/IRIN/sa/countrystories/namibia/20000323.htm NAMIBIA: Nujoma sworn in for controversial third term As Namibia marked the 10th anniversary of its independence on Tuesday, President Sam Nujoma was sworn in for a controversial third five-year term. At televised ceremonies in the capital, Windhoek, attended by South African President Thabo Mbeki and several other visiting heads of state, members of a new cabinet named at the weekend were also sworn in following the sweeping victory in last December's elections of Nujoma's ruling South West Africa People's Organisation (SWAPO). Among the dignitaries was the former Finnish president, Martti Ahtisaari, who helped steer Namibia to independence from South Africa in 1990 when he oversaw one of the most successful peacekeeping operations of the United Nations. Ahtisaari said that he was \"delighted\" to be back in Namibia to see the achievements made over the last 10 years. In his inauguration address, Nujoma, 70, said: \"The main objectives over the next five years for my government will be to accelerate the process of job creation by increasing support for small and medium scale enterprises.\" Nujoma, who has been in power since independence, also said his government had to tackle the spread of HIV/AIDS, unemployment, and access to better health care, education, water and electricity. Nujoma sought a controversial third term after his party removed a two-term limit from the constitution last year. In December he won 77 percent of the votes in the presidential race. SWAPO won 76 percent of the parliamentary seats, well above the two-thirds majority needed to change the constitution. Analysts in Namibia told IRIN that the costly deployment of Namibian troops in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and the decision last November to allow neighbouring Angola to use Namibian border bases to launch attacks against UNITA rebels had undermined confidence in Nujoma's government. A list of the new cabinet and explanations of the changes Nujoma made can be seen at http://www.reliefweb.int/IRIN/"}, {"response": 136, "author": "Ree", "date": "Sat, Mar 25, 2000 (08:31)", "body": "The business up north is a spectacular disaster - God knows how the government is going to get out of that one."}, {"response": 137, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Mar 25, 2000 (11:58)", "body": "Hi Ree"}, {"response": 138, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Mar 26, 2000 (16:59)", "body": "Ree, welcome back to your topic. Every time we have been posting bad news from Namibia, I think of you most sorrowfully. It must be a frightening time back there. Have you relatives still living there? If so, are they alright?"}, {"response": 139, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Mar 26, 2000 (21:55)", "body": "Please tell us about your last sejour there."}, {"response": 140, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, May 11, 2000 (14:27)", "body": "Here's a review of some books about Namibia, several of them sound quite interesting. BASLER AFRIKA BIBLIOGRAPHIEN (BAB) Namibia Resource Centre - Southern Africa Library in Switzerland PO Box 2037, CH 4001 Basel NAMIBIA BIBLIOGRAPHICAL UPDATE No 3:2000 Compiled 8.5.2000 by Dag Henrichsen ISSN 1422-9900 This update covers monographs, periodicals, unpublished theses, papers and other materials as received by the BAB Namibia Resource Centre only.It is selective and annotations do not imply a comprehensive treatment of the title. For more detailed information kindly contact Dag Henrichsen at The NAMIBIA BIBLIOGRAPHICAL UPDATE is issued since February 1997 and approximately once a month. Backissues can be consulted on our webpage: http://www.baslerafrika.ch REFERENCE & GENERAL WORKS Richard B. Lee & Richard Daly The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Hunters and Gathers Cambridge (University Press), 1999, 511p., maps, ill., index ISBN 0 521 57109 X This encyclopedia, 'by leading experts', contains ethnographic case studies and thematic essays. Megan Biesele & Kxao Royal -/o/oo write about the Ju/'hoansi (pp.205-209) but forget, as is often the case with Bushmen in Namibia, those many Ju/'hoansi living on farms and in resettlement camps. The discussions amongst anthropologists about the relevance and directions of their research, including reference to the socalled Kalahari debate, are briefly touched on in the introduction and in some of the thematic essays. Axel J. Halbach Namibia. Wirtschaft, Politik, Gesellschaft nach zehn Jahren Unabhaengigkeit Windhoek & Bonn (Namibia Wiss. Gesellschaft & Weltforum-Verlag), 2000, 244p., maps, tab. ISBN 99916 40 15 0/ 3 8039 0494 3 This is a broadly scetched socio-economic analysis of Namibias politics, economy and society since 1990. This first detailed review on the 10 years after independence is written by an author who has analysed Namibian developments since the past 30 years. Whilst his long research experience and knowledge with regard to Namibia is an important asset, his analysis of the Namibian society still is imformed by the ethnic paradigms of past regimes. However, the book provides a wealth of information, especially with respect to the economic changes and politices after 1990, the state budget and monatary politics. The author does'nt say much on Namibias foreign policy which in any case lacks any serious research whilst his analysis of international and regional trade is very useful. The merit of this book lies in its general framework, providing overviews combined with structural analyses, specific discussions and detailed information. Trends and events until March 2000 are considered. The usefulness of the book would have been greatly enhanced and would make it a real reference work if the publishers would have added an index. Gretchen Walsh The ambiguos adventure continues ... researching Africa on the Internet In Africana Bulletin (Boston University African Studies Center), No 54, April 2000, pp 2-3. The brief article focuses on Namibia which according to the author 'is particularly well served by academic web sites'. The web sites of the National Library of Namibia and Basler Afrika Bibliographien are critically looked at. ARCHAEOLOGY Tilman Lenssen-Erz & Marie-Theres Erz Brandberg. Der Bilderberg Namibias. Kunst und Geschichte einer Urlandschaft Stuttgart (Thorbecke), 2000, 127p., maps, ill., tab. ISBN 3 7995 9030 7 This is the first overview for a general readership on the fascinating history and archaeology of the Brandberg area. The authors, expert archaeologists of the area, have not only produced readable texts on complex and controversial archaeological and historical issues concerning the nature and interpretations of rock paintings and engravings. The publishers have also produced a beautiful book, incorporating the textual and visual levels very appropriately. It remains to be asked when an Namibian audience, including school children, will be able to hold in their hands a book of such splendid and well researched quality in order to sense the historical treasures at the Brandberg? Strange is the fact that the book includes a map on modern Namibia which shows some of the former ethnic homelands instead of the modern regions. BOTANY Ben-Reik van Wyk & Nigel Gericke People's plants. A guide to useful plants of southern Africa Pretoria (Briza Publications), 2000, 351p., ill., index ISBN 1 875093 18 2 This is a fascinating book on useful plants, as foods & drinks, for health & beauty, for skills & crafts. Plants listed are given in various(local) names and their contemporary and historical useage is briefly described and illustrated. Unfortunately, the book does not include maps which makes it difficult to locate principal areas of plant distribution. Numerous references to Namibian plants and usages. ECONOMY Sylvanus I. Ikhide & Kava Katjomuise Estimating the demand for money in Namibia Windhoek (Bank of Namibia, Occasional paper), 1999 (?), 24p. The pa"}, {"response": 141, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, May 26, 2000 (11:57)", "body": "--Namibia's Quiver Tree Forest-- If you are travelling in the south of Namibia, be sure to stop and see this natural forest of more than 300 trees growing in an arid area where little else will grow. The forest was declared a national museum in June 1955. These trees (actually not a tree, but an aloe plant - Aloe Dichotoma) are one of the most interesting and characteristic plants of the very hot and dry parts of Namibia. The plant is called a Quiver Tree, because some Bushmen and Hottentot tribes used the tough pliable bark and branches to make quivers for their arrows. Read more about Namibia's Quiver Tree Forest at, http://www.africa.com/namibia/ttd_sa_qt.phtml From ULUNDI http://www.africa.com"}, {"response": 142, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jun  4, 2000 (00:04)", "body": "Wow! Have you seen any quiver trees? Amazing adaptability. Need to post that in Bioregions. Shall you or shall I? Please, allow me to snitch it for Geo!"}, {"response": 143, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Jun  4, 2000 (11:12)", "body": "Thank you for doing it! I've never seen these, but sounds incredible."}, {"response": 144, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jun 11, 2000 (00:03)", "body": "AfriCam / Agfa Awards 1999 AGFA Wildlife & Environment Awards Thomas Dressler's \"Quiver Trees\" http://www.africam.com/mirror/special_content/agfa/1999/44.html"}, {"response": 145, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jun 11, 2000 (00:06)", "body": "AfriCam / Agfa Awards 1999 AGFA Wildlife & Environment Awards The beauty around us (Scenic and Plants) 2nd: Theo Allofs' \"Quiver Trees at Sunset\" http://www.africam.com/mirror/special_content/agfa/1999/16.html"}, {"response": 146, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, Jun 12, 2000 (04:07)", "body": "wonderful pix!!!! Are these pix free to use???? (i.e. on home pages?)"}, {"response": 147, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jun 15, 2000 (00:49)", "body": "They are on the website I have listed above. Check there for copyright sstipulations and such. They are striking and it is easy to see why they won prizes for photography../"}, {"response": 148, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Jun 16, 2000 (10:03)", "body": "I checked and I'm not convinced they are ..."}, {"response": 149, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jun 16, 2000 (23:03)", "body": "try it out and see what happens travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 37, "subject": "Hawaii", "response_count": 247, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (11:33)", "body": "There are seven main Islands in the Hawaiian archipelago, from oldest to newest: Niihau Kauai Oahu Molokai Lanai Maui Hawaii (The Big Island)"}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (13:00)", "body": "And you are on the big Island now? How far apart are all the little islands? How long does it take to get there by boat?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (13:35)", "body": "Our inter-island commerce is almost all done by air. It takes 1/2 hour to fly from Hilo to Honolulu, and another 45 minutes to get to Kauai. Inter-island barge traffic moves heavy things and Container ships move household goods, cars and non-perishable produce. That takes the better part of a week to get to Honolulu. There are inter-island cruises, but they do not travel in straight lines from port to port...they linger in the sunsets and off-shore in the evenings. From the west coast (California) it takes about 5 days by boat. Five hours by plane. I think the widest channel between the islands is about 60 miles (between Kauai and Oahu) (96 Km - does that sound right?!) Hilo is where I live on the east side of the Big Island"}, {"response": 4, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (15:31)", "body": "Me, too."}, {"response": 5, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (15:34)", "body": "Indeed, John...as I realized as the Yapp swallowed my post without mention of your also being resident in Hilo...and then O'O needed to check something...and I forgot. So sorry, Dear!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (15:42)", "body": "There is also one semi-major uninhabited island called Kaho`olawe (Ka-ho'-o-lah'-vay). It has been the subject of some major controversy between the federal government and Native Hawaiians. For years, the Navy used it as target practice. Hawaiians objected, claiming the island was a sacred place in their native polytheistic religion. The feds cleaned it (as well as they said they could) of unexploded ordnance and turned it over to the State of Hawaii several years ago and since then, Hawaiians have ta en private pilgrimages there. The feds say they will not be responsible for any unexploded shells still on the island (which is almost totally devoid of fresh water, thus nearly uninhabitable), but so far, no one has been injured. In 1976, two Hawaiian activists, George Helm (who was also a prominent Hawaiian entertainer) and Kimo Mitchell, disappeared while paddling their surfboards between Maui and Kahoolawe. There are Hawaiians who suspect the feds of foul play, as it was a calm day. Helm and Mitch ll have become the stuff of legends, as well as Eddie Aikau, a big-wave surfer who disappeared in a roiling storm at sea in 1978 while trying to paddle a surfboard to get help for a capsized Hawaiian voyaging canoe, the Hokule`a (Star of Gladness). To this day, there are bumper stickers proudly displayed statewide that proclaim \"Eddie Would Go.\" These guys have reached D.B. Cooper-like status in local legend."}, {"response": 7, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (15:43)", "body": "Kaho`olawe is 7 miles off Maui's south coast."}, {"response": 8, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (15:51)", "body": "Yup...thanks for the informative post. If they scroll back to the top they can see where Kaho'olave is...*hugs*"}, {"response": 9, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (15:53)", "body": "So much for spelling...Kaho'olawe, of course. Loihi is the next island in the chain, but it is still beneath the sea growing. It will be a long while before it surfaces off the southeast coast of The Big Island."}, {"response": 10, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (15:56)", "body": "Local volcanologists say only about 40,000 years, give or take a few =)"}, {"response": 11, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (22:45)", "body": "There are two excellent microbrew pubs in Honolulu. One is the Gordon Biersch Brewery at the Aloha Tower Marketplace on the waterfront downtown. Excellent pilsner, a yuppie haunt. The other is in Sam Choy's Breakfast, Lunch & Crab on Nimitz Avenue about a mile towards Pearl Harbor from downtown in the Iwilei industrial area. Sam Choy is Hawaii's most famous chef (former executive chef in the Kona Hilton, then went out on his own to fabulous success). It is a charming restaurant and microbrewery in a efurbished former factory building. Upscale, yet informal. They brew lager, cream ale, bambucha stout, hefeweizen, and my favorite \"Sam's Steam.\" It is much like San Francisco's legendary Anchor Steam, but even better. Sam also has an elegant Diamond Head restaurant, a family restaurant on Maui, both a family restaurant and a resort restaurant in Kailua-Kona on the Big Island (the former in the Kaloko Industrial Area, the latter at the Keauhou Beach Hotel), and fine dining establishments in Tokyo, New York City and on Guam. His website is http://www.samchoy.com There is also the Kona Brewpub in Kailua-Kona. Their signature beers are Fire Rock Ale and Kona Lager. Good info for travelers."}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (04:05)", "body": "And does it get horrible when all the tourists come?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (05:44)", "body": "As for me, I hardly notice them. I want them to come. Our local economy needs tourists to survive. I'll do whatever is necessary to be helpful and friendly when I meet them."}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (09:16)", "body": "My cousin Barney has a house in Hawaii on La Pietra Circle in Honolulu, do you know where that is Marcia or John?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (11:22)", "body": "La Pietra was a very pricy and exclusive estate on the Honolulu side of Oahu. If your cousin's house is anywhere in the neighborhood, he is in very good company!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (13:30)", "body": "Sounds like his house. He just retired from the luxury curise liner business and has hourses in a bunch of places around the world. He's now a mjaor art collector."}, {"response": 17, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (13:38)", "body": "That sounds like the appropriate neighborhood if not the actual house! Sounds like you chose the right family to be born into *grin* Do you get to visit often? ...or if it is like my family, ever? It is like Camelot in that area of Oahu...just pineapple mists keeping things green...never too hot nor too chilly, not too cloudy nor too sunny, and all sunsets have green flashes!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (13:59)", "body": "I've been to his place in St. Louis, which is awsome, golden Rolls and Mercedes in the driveway and the walls full of Georgia O'Keefe and Edward Hopper. It's a huge sprawling modern, mansion. I can just imagine what his place in Hawaii must be like!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (14:11)", "body": "Wow. LaPietra Circle is in the neighborhood where the upscale part of Waikiki melts into Diamond Head and Kahala. Some of the world's priciest real estate there and also on nearby Black Point Road. The mansion they used for externals on Magnum P.I. is close to your cousin's home. That's way out of MY neighborhood, both geographically and pricewise!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (16:59)", "body": "Yep, Barney's definitely the family success story. He golfs with Bill Gates at his Seattle home, he built one of St. Louis most successful companies, and he's likely to be found anywhere in the world. One of his companies, Clipper Cruise Lines, has some of the most interesting cruise ships. They weight just under 200 tons to meet the restrictions on going in to coves and harbors and they're always booked solid for the exotic places they travel. He also does this thing with the Concorde where you can go on a 15 day around the world trip and live in luxury on the plane. But, unfortunately, all this wealth has somewhat isolated him from the family, I haven't heard much from him since he got to the mega level and, of course, he's cirulating in a different social group now."}, {"response": 21, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (21:07)", "body": "Hanging with Billy G. That is a different social group. I wonder if there are girls who refused to date your cousin in high school or college who are kicking their own asses now..."}, {"response": 22, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (21:16)", "body": "Success is the sweetest revenge..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (21:53)", "body": "So I've heard."}, {"response": 24, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (22:32)", "body": "It is also one of the most powerful aphrodesiacs on Earth!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (22:35)", "body": "I've heard that as well. Otherwise, why would any woman sleep with Henry Kissinger..."}, {"response": 26, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (22:47)", "body": "My point exactly!!! *lol*"}, {"response": 27, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (22:48)", "body": "...and we are back to the nebbish discussion again..."}, {"response": 28, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (23:14)", "body": "Nah... too tall, too fat, too ugly, too secure for nebbishhood"}, {"response": 29, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 23, 1999 (23:18)", "body": "Waaaaaaay too secure for nebbishhood - good point! The rest is just part of the man I would have to be drugged to get into bed with...!"}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 24, 1999 (01:11)", "body": "Henry Kissinger is UUUUUUU-GLEEEEEE, and not all the success or money in the world will make him anything but just so!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep 24, 1999 (01:12)", "body": "He's dead though, isn't he?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Fri, Sep 24, 1999 (02:14)", "body": "Is he? If so, I completely missed that one. George C. Scott died yesterday (day before yesterday your time) see News/Obits."}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 24, 1999 (10:29)", "body": "Barney married a very lovely woman, his second marriage. He has a daughter with his first wife, Martine, a French woman. I could go hang out with him in the days when he was with Martine. And he would come visit me, marveling at my hippie lifestyle. It was strange that none of his cousins were invited to his wedding in St. Louis, which was a gargantuan affair with people being taken from party to party with limos and people from Bush's cabinet flying in for the affair. Bush sent apologies, I heard. You can guess which party he makes major contributions to!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (02:55)", "body": "Wow!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (07:57)", "body": "If he plays golf with Billy G., it's obvious which party he--and Billy G.-- contributes to. If Gates were a major contributor to the Democratic National Committee, he wouldn't have Janet Reno trying so hard to nail him on some specious antitrust violation. If your cousin Barney were a major contributor to the Dems, his second address would likely be the Lincoln Bedroom instead of LaPietra Circle."}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (09:21)", "body": "I already told the story somewhere about how he has this painting - Edward Hoppers \"The Diner\" - that Gates wants but he won't sell. I've got to give him credit for having something Bill Gates wants but can't have. That's rare."}, {"response": 37, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (13:53)", "body": "It must frustrate the bejeepers out of BG, and that is a good thing. NO one should be able to have Everything he wants...Some things must be unattainable for his own good! ...and what lovely satisfaction in knowing you have something someone wants but cannot have for any amount of money!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (14:34)", "body": "A vew visuals from this island and Kilauea Volcano, in particular: From Pu'u O'o fountains on the flanks of Kilauea Down to entry into the sea making new real estate for the future - lava originating at Pu'u O'o: This is how we get more black sand for beaches, and peridots, too."}, {"response": 39, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (20:12)", "body": "I got to fly over Pu'u O'o in a chopper in 1983 when it was fountaining 600 feet high. I wish I had been a better photographer, but I'll nver forget seeing it from the aerial view. Those are lovely shots, and thanks for the one with the URL."}, {"response": 40, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (20:14)", "body": "To see Kekaimalu, the only known wholphin in existence (at Oahu's Sea Life Park) http://www.womenonwallstreet.com/pp/Y/Yorimoto/slp.htm"}, {"response": 41, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (20:48)", "body": "For his graduation from Manoa (U of Hawaii's Honolulu campus), David gave me a trip in a chopper down Chain-of-Craters Road from the Golf Course to the sea with lots of stops between. It was incredible and I loved it. Took loads of pictures, and saw the lava fire-hosing out of the sea cliffs into the water. Amazing stuff!"}, {"response": 42, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sun, Sep 26, 1999 (01:16)", "body": "When I graduated from UHH, Alton gave me a beautiful framed photo he took himself of lava at night from Chain-of-Craters Road."}, {"response": 43, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (00:22)", "body": "Oooh...Very nice! I have given him loads of stuff...he has only fed me, but that is a high compliment considering he worked his way through college by catering (began his own business!) Of course, you were the best and brightest we had graduated in a very long time from UHH...what was your GPA, Valedictorian?"}, {"response": 44, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (00:23)", "body": "The plane crash in Hawaii Sat. eve. Sep. 25 was here on the Big Island. Was a two-engine tourist plane, a Piper Navajo Chieftain, with 10 aboard, including the pilot. It took off from Kona airport on the west side of the island at 4:22 p.m. Was reported missing shortly after 6 p.m. A Coast Guard helicopter discovered the still smoldering wreckage on the northeastern slopes of Mauna Loa (on the Hilo side) shortly after 6 a.m. Sunday. The plane, which was 16 years old and considered relatively young an airworthy, had slammed into the side of the mountain. Weather conditions were unknown. The last transmission from the pilot, who had worked for Big Island Air, the tour plane company, for over five years, was a request to enter restricted airspace, nothing unusual for a tour plane. It is the first mishap ever for Big Island Air. As of this posting, no names of victims have been released, but all ten aboard are confirmed dead. The wreckage was charred and most, if not all, will have to be ID'd throug dental records."}, {"response": 45, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (00:26)", "body": "On a much less serious note (in response to your previous post which I had missed, Marcia), my GPA was 4.0 (B.A. English, highest honors) and still is in my master's program (MEd, expected Spring 2000 from UH-Manoa, Honolulu) as well. Means little when 10 people have died prematurely."}, {"response": 46, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (00:32)", "body": "Of course, you do not need to answer that rude question - I know it was outstanding. And, you realize I am very jealous that you have something personally from Alton that did not become part of your body...hmmm....! On a more serious note...From CNN (John or I will post the follow-up after our late news this evening) Plane slams into side of Hawaiian volcano, killing 10 September 26, 1999 Web posted at: 8:43 p.m. EDT (0043 GMT) From staff and wire reports KAILUA KONA, Hawaii (CNN) -- Ten people on board a twin-engine sightseeing airplane died when it crashed on the side of Hawaii's Mauna Loa volcano. Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Diana Joubert said search crews located the wreckage at 6:30 a.m. Sunday at an elevation of about 10,500 feet. The volcano reaches 13,679 feet. Rescue crews later reached the remote site on the \"big island\" of Hawaii, where they found no survivors. The PA-31/350 Piper Chieftain, with a pilot and nine passengers, was operated by Big Island Airlines, which offers regularly scheduled sightseeing tours. \"The plane was totally demolished, just like a plane would be if it went into rocks at a high rate of speed,\" said Doug Lentz, spokesman for Hawaii Volcanoes National Park, where Mauna Loa is located. \"It's pretty rough terrain on the side of the volcano, with plenty of lava fields,\" said Roy Mann, the airline's operations director. Identities of the victims were not immediately released. The recovered bodies were being flown by helicopter to the city of Hilo on the east side of the island. The plane had taken off about 4:30 p.m. Saturday for a tour of Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea, two dormant volcanoes. About three hours later, Big Island officials notified Kona International Airport that the plane was an hour overdue. Searchers began looking for the plane but suspended their search when darkness fell. They resumed the search Sunday morning and found the plane about an hour later, Joubert said. Since a large part of the island is inaccessible by car, air tours are a popular way to see it, including the active Kilauea volcano. Helicopters and planes fly near the bubbling summit and then over nearby valleys to view rainbows and waterfalls."}, {"response": 47, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (00:33)", "body": "This is the worst plane disaster we have ever had here, if I recall correctly."}, {"response": 48, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (00:37)", "body": "Thank you for posting, and I am sorry to have interjected something incredibly important to me, but not in the great scheme of things."}, {"response": 49, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (02:39)", "body": "Wow, those photos are absolutely stunning, Marcia! HAve you ever witnessed an erupting volcano? It must be the most beautiful sight on earth - as long as it happens where people can't get hurt. I once saw an amazing programme where volcano experts climbed into the mouth of an active volcano to measure the activities; afterwards it said in the credits that the guy who led the party was killed by a small eruption 2 weeks after the film was made."}, {"response": 50, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (03:25)", "body": "Fourth worst in Hawaii history. On Oct. 28, 1989, 20 died in a plane crash (Aloha Island Air) on Moloka'i, including most of the Moloka'i High School girls' volleyball team. Melveena Starkey and her brother, Travis, were supposed to be on that plane, but decided to stay behind on Maui to shop."}, {"response": 51, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Sep 28, 1999 (01:50)", "body": "WHY AMERICANS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO TRAVEL The following are actual stories provided by travel agents: I had someone ask for an aisle seat so that their hair wouldn't get messed up by being near the window. A client called in inquiring about a package to Hawaii. After going over all the cost info, she asked, \"Would it be cheaper to fly to California and then take the train to Hawaii?\" A man called, furious about a Florida package we did. I asked what was wrong with the vacation in Orlando. He said he was expecting an ocean-view room. I tried to explain that is not possible, since Orlando is in the middle of the state. He replied, \"Don't lie to me. I looked on the map and Florida is a very thin state.\" I got a call from a man who asked, \"Is it possible to see England from Canada?\" I said, \"No.\" He said \"But they look so close on the map.\" A nice lady just called. She needed to know how it was possible that her flight from Detroit left at 8:20am and got into Chicago at 8:33am. I tried to explain that Michigan was an hour ahead of Illinois, but she could not understand the concept of time zones. Finally I told her the plane went very fast, and she bought that! I just got off the phone with a man who asked, \"How do I know which plane to get on?\" I asked him what exactly he meant, which he replied, \"I was told my flight number is 823, but none of these darn planes have numbers on them.\" A business man called and had a question about the documents he needed in order to fly to China. After a lengthy discussion about passports, I reminded him he needed a visa. \"Oh no I don't, I've been to China many times and never had to have one of those.\" I double checked and sure enough, his stay required a visa. When I told him this he said, \"Look, I've been to China four times and every time they have accepted my American Express.\""}, {"response": 52, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (03:15)", "body": "Kona Airport Beach Park, a popular surfing spot on the Big Island's west side, was closed Saturday following a Friday afternoon shark attack on a 16-year-old boy. The victim, who is listed in critical but stable condition at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, was surfing with a friend, when a six to eight foot long tiger shark partially severed his left arm. It was the second shark attack on the Big Island this year. A fisherman suffered relatively minor injuries from a shark bite in July in Hilo. The beach park is expected to be open to the public again Sunday."}, {"response": 53, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (08:38)", "body": "Does anything NICE ever happen in HawaII??"}, {"response": 54, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (15:34)", "body": "Right now in Hilo it's a sunny blue gorgeous 76 degree day. I'd call that something nice."}, {"response": 55, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (15:40)", "body": "Indeed it is, and I have the feeling I am going to spend it sitting right here. That is the saddest part of a lovely day! Definitely a 35 SPF day out there!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (15:43)", "body": "Our UH-Hilo Vulcan women's volleyball team stinketh like goatherds. They lost in straight games two nights in a row to HPU and BYU (like we didn't expect that, huh?) 0-3 in Pacific West Conference play. HPU beat them 15-0 in 15 minutes in game number one."}, {"response": 57, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (15:53)", "body": "Don't they evereth! We may just as well throw in the proverbial towel before playing nationally-ranked Hawaii Pacific University in Honolulu. They won our tournament - by miles and miles!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (15:58)", "body": "Here is your secondary tour guide. ME, not Marcia...(circa 1981)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (16:02)", "body": "Thank you for making that clarification...*lol*"}, {"response": 60, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Oct  4, 1999 (09:04)", "body": "hey ho, ho hey! THAT's what I call rugged!!! EEEEAAAAUUUW!"}, {"response": 61, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (02:45)", "body": "Women often react to me eith EEEEAAAAUUUUW (the story of my life)."}, {"response": 62, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (10:12)", "body": "It wasn't THAT kind of EEEAAAAAUUUUW. I happen to adore beards and hair and lots of ruggedness on males."}, {"response": 63, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (10:34)", "body": "I stand corrected. I didn't know there was any other kind of EEEAAAAUUUUW."}, {"response": 64, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (16:11)", "body": "Hey JOhn... are you and WER related?!?!?! *grin* very similar facial decoration..."}, {"response": 65, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (16:46)", "body": "...hmmm....(don't think so...)"}, {"response": 66, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Oct  6, 1999 (01:39)", "body": "Not related to the kitchen manager...the kitchen help, maybe!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct  6, 1999 (13:42)", "body": "...and friend of every chef in Hawaii worth the name *grin*"}, {"response": 68, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Thu, Oct  7, 1999 (23:27)", "body": "Speaking of chefs in Hawaii, Georges Bouillion, a world-class French chef living in Honolulu, has just opened a French cooking institute here. If you would like to study French cooking in Hawaii, details are available 1 (808) 528-5627. When the students become advanced enough, Bouillion intends to open a relatively low cost French bistro run by his students. Stay tuned!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Oct  9, 1999 (20:54)", "body": "Some Big Island Scenery Shoreline of Keaukaha just outside Hilo: Hilo black sand beach Bayfront during outrigger canoe regatta School Bus in Lava Flow Snow on Mauna Kea"}, {"response": 70, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sat, Oct  9, 1999 (22:18)", "body": "Nothing like a school bus in a lava flow to warm the cockles of the Hawaii Visitors' Bureau's collective heart!"}, {"response": 71, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Oct  9, 1999 (22:31)", "body": "Yup! That's why I put it there! Wait'll you see where the tourists are standing in the pix I posted in Vulcanology...he he he"}, {"response": 72, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Sun, Oct 10, 1999 (23:45)", "body": "Why the State of Hawai`i's economic recovery plans depend on a nuclear holocaust in Australia: 1. We will become the world's main supplier of raw materials for eucalyptus cough drops. 2. Hawaiian surfers will again dominate the field, leading to skyrocketing North Shore real estate values. 3. The place is full of snakes. Every Qantas airliner is a potential ecological catastrophe. 4. Without Aussie peacekeepers to interfere, Indonesia will stay happier and keep that oil flowing. 5. Now that Ross Furniture has been bought out, we don't ever want a repeat of those damn commercials. 6. Aussies have too much fun at home. It's giving other tourists the wrong idea. 7. They aren't accepting convicts anymore, and the the prison-for-profit people want to keep it that way. 8. Aussie men will stop fueling the Bangkok sex market, subsidizing cheap competition for Waikiki. 9. Once Australia is gone, the only place where tourists can see wild wallabies will be Oahu. 10. Baywatch will never be tempted again."}, {"response": 73, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct 10, 1999 (23:56)", "body": "John where did you get that?! Far too funny not to be true! Prepare for some wounded pride."}, {"response": 74, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Oct 11, 1999 (22:00)", "body": "I got it from the old poetry professor. He did not indicate whether it was original, but he does do this kind of stuff. Whose wounded pride must I prepare for. Are there any Aussies here outside of Drool?"}, {"response": 75, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Oct 11, 1999 (22:03)", "body": "Anne Hale lives in Australia but thinks of herself as an Englishwoman, I believe. We just might find out if there are any lurking travellers from OZ."}, {"response": 76, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 13, 1999 (23:04)", "body": "I have in my hot little hands a Premier issue of The Hawaii Island Journal some of whose contents are attributed to Alan D. McNarie and a certain John Burnett. Where does he find the time? It is a lovely piece of journalism all the way through and I wish it much success. McNarie's pieces are wonderful - he has 2 that I have found so far, and John does a music scene column which I have not yet read. Congratulations all round!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Oct 13, 1999 (23:34)", "body": "Thank you. Speaking of the Hawaii music scene, Henry Kapono will headline a nine-hour concert that will be cybercast worldwide via pixelnet November 6th. Fourteen other Hawaii acts will also take part in the concert, which will be webcast from the under-construction Pier Bar Amphitheater at Aloha Tower in Honolulu. I don't have any more details at this time, but will post them as they become available. Over a million people worldwide are expected to tune in, and 10,000 people are expected on site, whi h will be serving Gordon Biersch microbrew, which is right next door. Perhaps the freshest beer at a concert event, ever, and the music will be fantastic. Henry Kapono is a world class music act, and has recorded with acts as diverse as Big Mountain, Michael McDonald, and Third World."}, {"response": 78, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 13, 1999 (23:45)", "body": "When you know a URL for this broadcast, please post it here and in the other places where Terry is sure to find it - like internet broadcasting. That should be one fantastic concert! Love that music!!! (btw, how did they shrink your photo to a thumbnail - Oooh, I know!!! I can do it, too!!!)"}, {"response": 79, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Oct 13, 1999 (23:47)", "body": "I don't know how they did it. They have a professional graphics person (Dick Price). Does your copy of it look as grainy as what you posted?"}, {"response": 80, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 13, 1999 (23:49)", "body": "No it does not. Not nearly as grainy - let me try my thumbnail program and I'll send you my result...it will take a little bit to do it...like about 15 minutes or so...!"}, {"response": 81, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Oct 13, 1999 (23:54)", "body": "O.K. fine. Sounds good to me."}, {"response": 82, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct 14, 1999 (00:05)", "body": "check your mail, John!"}, {"response": 83, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Fri, Oct 22, 1999 (23:38)", "body": "The Ironman World Triathlon Championship is tomorrow in Kailua-Kona (the other side of the Big Island). There are perhaps 50,000 spectators and other tourists and over 1,000 competitors jamming that quiet little town. And on a more serious note, Hawaii longshoremen are threatening a strike. Poor babies are only averaging about 65-grand a year, and it isn't enough for their greedy, strong, but uneducated (m)asses. The sentiment of the local populus is not with them. They are looking to make the same money the longshoremen in Oakland, San Francisco, and Los Angeles make, but in all fairness, West Shore longshoremen have larger workloads. The local stevedores have already slowed down work at the Hilo docks. People he e, who remember the 100 day shipping strike of 1971, have made a run in the stores on 20 and 50 pound bags of rice, toilet paper, and cases of SPAM, canned corned beef, and Vienna sausages."}, {"response": 84, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Oct 23, 1999 (17:09)", "body": "Indeed they/we are. Do not throw away your old newspapers...you might need to use them again! I thought we were declared a special status and that they ILO was not allowed to do this to us again. I recall the last strike. Shall we break out the Y2K provisions and do a test run?! ...they are also stocking up on (hate to mention it) \"sanitary products\" and Onions. One cannot cook in Hawaii without Onions!!!"}, {"response": 85, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (02:23)", "body": "An eToys commercial (national) came on TV tonight and I was riveted. Not by the pictures or by the professional female voice over, but by the music in the background. It was a single ukulele with a male voice humming--or more accurately, oohing. The oohing voice belonged to the late Israel Kamakawiwoole, who died of natural causes at age 38 a couple of years ago (he had a thyroid condition and weighed over 700 pounds). \"Braddah Iz\" as he is known throughout Hawaii, was the greatest Hawaiian singer of his generation. The tune he was strumming was \"Over the Rainbow,\" yes the Wizard of Oz classic. Iz's version of the song gained national prominence when the producers of the movie Meet Joe Black chose it to roll over the closing cred ts of the film, about a year after Iz's untimely demise. If you come to Hawaii and say \"Israel\" or \"Iz,\" everybody will know who you mean by that single word, just as you can say \"Elvis,\" \"Marilyn,\" or \"Ringo\" and get instant recognition. He was a national treasure here in Hawaii, and was well-known in Japan as well, and I think everybody should be exposed to his beautiful voice, music, and spirit. Iz called me at the radio station from his hospital room in Honolulu a week before he died. I put him on the air. He knew he was dying, but he was cheerful and funny. He referred to his private room in the Queen's Medical Center as \"the presidential suite at the Queen Emma Hilton,\" and requested that I play his version of the country hit \"In This Life\" for his friends and fans on the Big Island. The song is a \"swan song,\" and it was then that I realized that he was not going to make it out of the hosp tal. His tone of conversation was cheerful; he let the song express the heaviness on his heart. Iz was the epitome of strength, grace, class, and inner beauty. He was my friend for nearly 20 years and I miss him terribly. His widow, Marlene, is a much better businessperson than he was, and he should have let her handle his business affairs when he was alive. She negotiated the deals on behalf of his estate with the movie and commercial producers, and hopefully, with her business smarts, she will get his music national recognition, and earn a healthy living for herself and their daughter, Ku`ulei."}, {"response": 86, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (11:41)", "body": "7 ways to save on Hawaii vacations Discover how to be frugal with air fares, accommodations, recreation, more The Manele Bay Hotel on Lanai will offer deals during the first two weeks of December. By Rudy Maxa MSNBC Oct. 21 \ufffd If you think Hawaii is like a rare tropical flower priced so that only the rich and famous can afford it, think again. Hawaii has actually fallen on economic hard times recently and is offering many incentives to lure travelers. Discover how to save money on air fares, vacation packages, accommodations and recreation. THE DECLINE in Japanese tourism has hurt Hawaii the last several years, and there are bargains to be found. But remember that food is often more expensive than on the mainland, and hotel taxes can add as much as 21 percent to the cost of a hotel room. When you price rooms, ask if tax is included. First, consider getting there. Hawaii is one of the country\ufffds favorite destinations for frequent fliers cashing in miles. Think of American, United and Continental\ufffds Hawaiian flights as routes the airlines use to burn off frequent-flier miles. There are scheduled charter flights, however, that offer low prices. A California tour operator called Pleasant Holidays (800-242-9244), for example, offers almost daily service connecting Los Angeles and San Francisco with Honolulu and Maui. If you happen to really like visiting Hawaii, you might want to consider purchasing the company\ufffds unlimited flight deal called AirPass. You can fly as many times as you want between the West Coast and Hawaii \ufffd except during nine holiday season black-out dates \ufffd for o ly $1,399 during 2000. Pleasant Holidays says its average AirPass holder makes seven or eight round trips a year, which works out to $200 or less per round-trip. That\ufffds about half the cost of a normal ticket. SAVING ON ACCOMMODATIONS When it comes to accommodations, be aware that Hawaii does have its slow times when you\ufffdll be able to negotiate better hotel and condo rates. Here are the best times to go to save money: the first two weeks of December April, if it\ufffds been a mild winter on the mainland May summers on all islands other than Maui and Oahu September Over the past year, some hotels have offered great incentives such as a fifth night free or a free rental car. For example, Pleasant Holidays offered me a package at the Sheraton on Oahu with a fifth night free plus a daily food credit of $25. I asked for their cheapest package to Honolulu in November, including air and hotel. They quoted $629 per person (based on two people traveling), which includes air fare from Washington, D.C., and five nights in the Ambassador Hotel with a city (not ocean) view. That\ufffds about what I\ufffdd pay in air fare alone if I made my own travel plans. WANT A DEAL? ASK FOR IT The \"Celebrate Aloha\" package at the Mauna Lani Bay Hotel can save you money on luxury accommodations. Be sure to push to find the deals. For example, I decided to go more upscale and called the swanky Mauna Lani Bay on the Big Island of Hawaii. First I asked for the AAA rate and was quoted a price of $515 for a deluxe double room with an ocean view the first week of December. (Keep in mind, taxes would add another $100 to that total!) Then I asked if there were any packages available that might save me oney. Bingo! The \ufffdCelebrate Aloha\ufffd package gave me the same room for $350 a night plus $400 in hotel credit that I could use toward dining, golf fees and hotel shops. The only catch was a minimum stay of three nights. That\ufffds a savings of $165 a night not including that $400 credit. (Which cannot be applied to your nightly room rate, by the way.) LANAI ON A BUDGET The island of Lanai is one of my favorites because it\ufffds so beautiful, and as I mentioned above, sparsely populated. This is where Dole grew many of its pineapples, and there are two resorts, the Lodge at Koehle and the Manele Bay Hotel. Both plan to offer deals during the slow, first two weeks of December, though specific prices weren\ufffdt available as I wrote this story. Both are owned by the same company, and you can check prices by calling (800) 321-4666. The Lodge is inland, surrounded by fir trees that ive you the feeling you\ufffdre in Montana. Just nine miles away, on the coast, is the Manele Bay, whose setting, architecture and landscape suggest you\ufffdre on the coast of Portugal or southern France. While room rates may exceed $300 a night, these are resorts that, if they were located in the Caribbean, would easily fetch more than $700 a night. Want to stay at the budget hotel on the island? The 10-room Hotel Lanai is simple and has rates that begin at $95 a night. For information, call (800) 795-7211. You can always splurge by dining at the two opulent resort properties. CONSIDER A CONDOMINIUM If you\ufffdre traveling to Hawaii with children, consider renting a condominium. You\ufffdll save on food costs and may enjoy the increased space and privacy. Every island has hundreds of options at varying prices that are usually less than the cost of a "}, {"response": 87, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (11:51)", "body": "VOLCANO VILLAGE, Hawaii, Oct. 21 \ufffd How do you explore Kilauea volcano? Let us count the ways. Swoop over the erupting Pu\ufffdu O\ufffdo vent in a helicopter or hike on hardened lava in the pitch-black darkness and scan the horizon for glowing lava. Or if you\ufffdre really chicken, hit the nearby Internet cafe for risk-free enlightenment. IF YOU WANT to explore Kilauea, one of the world\ufffds most active volcanoes, you have a delightful array of creative options from which to choose. It all depends on how much you like danger. When Blue Hawaiian Helicopters swoops its passengers down over the 800-foot high Pu\ufffdu O\ufffdo vent, the actual site where molten magma bursts from deep inside the earth, spine-tingling strains of \ufffdPhantom of the Opera\ufffd blast through the headphones and set hair on edge. Pilot Ray Guy banks the chopper left, then right, then left again to ensure his white-knuckle fliers have a chance to glimpse through boiling clouds of hydrochloric acid to see orange blobs of lava below. While you\ufffdre contemplating what hydrochloric acid might do to a helicopter, Pilot Ray tosses out statistics that are anything but subtle. The Big Island actually has three active volcanoes, and they are a bunch of real shakers. \ufffdWe had 67,000 earthquakes on the Big Island in 1997,\ufffd he says. Maneuvering the helicopter back toward its home base in Hilo, he passes over the \ufffdformer subdivision\ufffd of Royal Gardens. Its 192 homes and businesses are now under 40 feet of lava, he says, and for the few stragglers who refuse to leave their homesteads, \ufffdThere\ufffds no electricity, no water, no telephone, and it\ufffds a 60-mile drive to the nearest grocery.\ufffd Staring down at devastated subdivision, some folks might find the scariness factor pretty high. But in all fairness, Blue Hawaiian Helicopters has a flawless safety record over its 14-year history. It is the first helicopter tour company in the United States to be certified under the National \ufffdTour Operator Program of Safety,\ufffd whose standards exceed the FAA\ufffds. So tell that to your goosebumps. MADAM PELE THROWS A PARTY If the helicopter adventure doesn\ufffdt stand your flesh on edge, climb into your rental car and head to Volcanoes National Park for the \ufffdnighttime volcano party.\ufffd Detour briefly to Volcano House, a hotel/restaurant complex within the park to store up on flashlights, bottled water and picnic items, then drive 25 miles to the end of Chain of Craters Road along the Pacific Ocean. It won\ufffdt be hard to establish where the end of the road is: Look for the giant blobs of hardened lava that stopped it dead in its tra ks. Park your car facing uphill (so the national park service can evacuate you in case of an emergency), then let the party begin. Visitors to Hawaii Volcanoes National Park keep their eyes on a distant steam cloud where hot lava flows into the Pacific Ocean. As the sun goes down, swarms of people - including families with children and senior citizens from huge tour buses \ufffd gingerly inch their way along 300 yards of sharp, uneven hardened black lava, all in search of that elusive view of volcanic activity. As the sun disappears completely, we are in the enviable position of sitting on a black, fissured hill of lava sticking up from 37 square miles of black lava, while all around us, it\ufffds \ufffd totally black. But there are pinpricks of light on the horizon. And flashes of orange at the ocean\ufffds edge. And these are significant. Why? Let\ufffds have a lava lesson. When lava bursts from the Pu\ufffdu O\ufffdo vent, it\ufffds like syrup, a park ranger explained. Like any liquid, it\ufffds going to follow the path of least resistance. If there\ufffds a slope, it will begin to go downhill and soon it will form a river. When the 2,000-degree lava begins to cool around its edges, it creates it own tunnel which insulates the lava on the inside. The lava leaving Pu\ufffdu O\ufffdo flows 7 miles in its own tunnel until it hits the ocean. When lava hits the sea, molten lava blocks the size of microwave ovens can be tossed as far as half a mile inland. Anywhere that the lava tube collapses in on itself, you get holes in the tube. Hawaiians call these holes \ufffdskylights.\ufffd So if you sit on your black hill in the black expanse of darkness, you can see red dots that are glimpses of the river of lava through the tube. And when hot lava meets the ocean, wham! You get a hydrochloric acid plume that glows orange like distant Fourth of July fireworks. If your flesh still isn\ufffdt on edge, turn on your flashlight and read the national park leaflet posted at the hut near the entrance to the lava trail. It mentions that volcanic fumes, which contain hydrochloric acid, sulfur dioxide and particulate matter, can be hazardous to your health. It mentions that when lava hits the sea, molten lava blocks the size of microwave ovens can be tossed as far as half a mile inland. It mentions that the slightest fall on the sharp-edged lava will probably cause deep cuts r quiring first aid. It mentions that lava benches, formed where lava enters the ocean, are unstable and can coll"}, {"response": 88, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (12:01)", "body": "Reach for the stars on Mauna Kea Want to bag a summit? Drive to the top of a 13,796-foot peak By Robin Dalmas MSNBC Oct. 21 \ufffd If you drive to the summit of Mauna Kea at 13,796 feet, you can steal a glimpse of what rightfully belongs to mountaineers. A neon pink and orange sunset wraps around the Big Island like a giant flower lei. Silvery telescopes hum in preparation for stargazing. Stunning. Did we mention the shortage of oxygen? PERHAPS YOU\ufffdRE not a mountaineer, and the thought of bagging a summit with ice axes, crampons and little bags of freeze-dried stroganoff sounds as exciting as being boiled in hot lava. Still, there\ufffds a part of you that longs to stand atop a lofty peak, the sound of the wind rippling through your long johns, your lips turning blue from the cold. If you fly to the Big Island of Hawaii, rent a four-wheel drive and motor to the top of 13,796-foot Mauna Kea, a dormant volcano that last erupted 4,000 years ago, you can steal a glimpse of what rightfully belongs to mountaineers. And you don\ufffdt even need to make a trip to Recreational Equipment Incorporated. You need only violate the clause in your rental car contract that says \ufffdthou shalt not drive on dirt roads.\ufffd What\ufffds more, you can boast to all your mountaineering buddies that you\ufffdve stood atop the highest peak in the world. While it\ufffds only 13,796 feet high measured from base to summit, it\ufffds actually 33,476 feet measured from the ocean floor to its summit. Higher than Everest. We set out from the Saddle Road, a bizarre road leftover from World War II that runs east and west between the behemoth Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea volcanoes. This two-lane road, hastily constructed with rough patches around the edges, demands a motor vehicle with good suspension and offers an expansive view of all the solidified lava you could ever hope to see. Near mile marker 28, at about 5:15 p.m., we turned up the summit access road. This journey to the top, where atmospheric pressure is 40 percent less than at sea level, isn\ufffdt for everyone. A real estate salesman from the sunny Kona Coast informed me that when he drove to the top, he fell straight to sleep from lack of oxygen. Another man, woozy at the altitude, spent a lot of time lying down. Warning signs at the visitor center say the summit can \ufffdcreate respiratory distress\ufffd for children under 16. And that\ufffds not to mention the hair-raising ride to the top. Some parts of the road have a grade of 15 percent. Wayward game animals and cattle have caused multiple motorists to flip their cars. Photos of such accidents are taped to the windows at the Onizuka Visitor Information Station, with warnings like: \ufffdBeware of invisible cows!\ufffd If you\ufffdre looking for guardrails, maybe you should seek something safer \ufffd like hang gliding over power lines. But if you\ufffdre extremely curious and take the time to acclimate for an hour at the 9,300-foot visitor center, here\ufffds what you bold and daring motorists can experience. Bring a thermos of soup or coffee to sip while you wait. It will help to acclimate you to the altitude. At about 6:30 p.m. on a March evening, I\ufffdm standing atop Mauna Kea snuggled in my ski parka and hiking boots, watching the sun sink down over the Kohala Coast. Low-lying clouds have blanketed all coastal areas of the Big Island. Atop the clouds, a narrow band of neon pink and orange wraps around the island like a giant flower lei made by Paul Bunyon. The air is thin. It\ufffds hard to breathe. You feel like you\ufffdve gulped five mai tais, and so you smile a lot. But the sunset is merely a trifle compared to what\ufffd to the east. The setting sun has tossed the shadow of Mauna Kea against the clouds. It\ufffds the biggest shadow you\ufffdve ever seen in your life. And what\ufffds that? The full moon is rising, and it\ufffds sitting at the apex of Mauna Kea\ufffds shadow like a big, cosmic punctuation mark. As your brain tries to comprehend the giant dot on top of the giant pyramid, something begins to buzz. You begin searching your parka for bugs. Mauna Kea is, after all, home to four species of insects blown to the summit during the last Ice Age. The Weikiu, a black wingless thing, dines on other hapless insects blown up to the summit. But that\ufffds not what\ufffds making the noise. As the sun sets, the United Kingdom Infrared Telescope whirls into position for stargazing. It is one of nine telescopes atop the summit of Mauna Kea. Off to the left, like a King Kong-sized robot, one of Mauna Kea\ufffds nine summit telescopes is opening up for the evening. The United Kingdom\ufffds InfraRed Telescope whirs gently into position, preparing for a cold, calculating look at hot stars. And then I\ufffdm reminded who really owns this view of the night sky atop the highest mountain in the world. The astronomers. Scientists throughout the world recognize Mauna Kea as the best site for optical, infrared and submillimeter observations. Mauna Kea gives the best images because it is so high that the telescopes are above 40 percent of the atmosphere. The air above Mauna Kea is calm after"}, {"response": 89, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (12:07)", "body": "Nostalgic Waikiki Rediscovering the historic charms of Honolulu By Byron Ricks A chartered outrigger canoe tour is still a wonderful way to see Oahu. Last winter our family recovered several stacks of films my grandfather had taken during his World War II tenure at Pearl Harbor. In a darkened room we watched the images of an old Hawaii flicker past. And soon afterward, my wife, Maren, and I flew to Oahu to discover what he had seen more than 50 years before\ufffda historic Waikiki Beach and Honolulu often overlooked amid the latest veneers of glass and steel. Day 1: Stepping into history Beneath curtains of rain and brilliant rainbows I set out on an early morning jog in Ala Moana Beach Park. Running past the splendid swimming beach and a rank of outrigger canoes, I first saw the 2-mile sweep of Waikiki and the igneous backdrop that so often appears in my grandfather's films\ufffdthe peak of Diamond Head. Although the 500 restaurants and hundreds of shops of contemporary Waikiki attract nearly 70,000 visitors each day, from here the beach seemed strangely quiet, shimmering in the early light a it has for centuries. Waikiki Beach's relatively predictable and often mild water conditions make it the perfect place for beginners to get their surfing legs. The Duke Just across the water, Pacific rollers sweep into Duke Kahanamoku Beach, named for the place where the winner of Olympic gold medals in swimming in 1912 and 1920 learned his first strokes and the art of surfing. With his celebrity, Duke brought surfing a worldwide audience, and he made some 30 movies with the stars, including another \"duke,\" John Wayne. Later, Maren and I will visit the thatch-roofed Duke's Canoe Club restaurant that honors the famous Hawaiian. Pearl Harbor We hopped a bus in Waikiki and headed to Pearl Harbor where my grandfather had been a dentist in the Navy. Due to wartime security, he took no films in Pearl Harbor; we have only a letter thanking his dental team, signed Admiral Nimitz. As we stood over the sunken tomb of the USS Arizona, an afternoon squall washed the harbor. The sobering attack of 7 December 1941 is ultimately what brought my grandfather, and now me, to these islands. Yet even here there is life\ufffdbirds, migrating flocks descending into t e Pearl Harbor National Wildlife Refuge. Historic downtown Honolulu Returning to Waikiki via the Nimitz Highway, we paused in historic downtown Honolulu. Between the tall buildings, an expanse of green opens around the stately Victorian Iolani Palace. Built for King Kalakaua in 1882, the palace holds the thrones of Kalakaua and his successor, Queen Liluokalani, who ruled the Hawaiian kingdom until the overthrow of the monarchy in 1893. Iolani remains the country's only official royal residence. Then, across King Street, in front of the old parliament hall (now the judicial building), I spied a familiar figure from the films: the golden statue of Kamehameha I, the great monarch who united Hawaii in 1795. On King Kamehameha Day (11 June) flowing leis drape the statue's reaching arms. After wandering among the many historic buildings in this area\ufffdthe State Capitol, State Library, the Kawaiahao Church, and the Mission Houses Museum (where Hawaii's first American missionaries lived in 1821)\ufffdwe spent the rest of the afternoon lost among the fascinating Polynesian collections at the Bishop Museum. This striking statue of Kamehameha was dedicated in 1883 as part of King David Kalakaua's coronation ceremony. Day 2: Diamond Head and Hanauma Bay A natural Hawaii As eager to explore Honolulu's outskirts as the sailors in Grandfather's films, we toted flippers, snorkels, and masks, and taxied to Hanauma Bay State Underwater Park, following a winding road along the massive slope of Diamond Head. Today a trail from Diamond Head State Park climbs to the top of the 761-foot-high volcanic peak, where stunning views of Waikiki, Honolulu, and the Oahu coastline unfurl. Submerging my face in the shallows of horseshoe-shaped Hanauma Bay, I glimpsed the sparkling world of Hawaii's underwater life. My grandfather had enjoyed deep-sea fishing during his time in the islands, but these remarkable fish\ufffdmere blue and silver flashes among the coral\ufffdseemed too spectacular to catch, a feeling confirmed in startling clarity during a stop on the way back at the Waikiki Aquarium. Day 3: On the sands of Waikiki We spent the afternoon along Waikiki where, just more than a century ago, the homes of royalty stood surrounded by the tall palms of the Royal Grove. As we walked the sands, I focused on what I had seen in Grandfather's films\ufffdthe magnificent Royal Hawaiian Hotel and the longboard surfers riding crumbling waves toward the crescent of Waikiki Beach. The Royal Hawaiian The Royal Hawaiian Hotel beckons with its gardens of towering coconut palms that evoke a tranquility these shores knew long ago. The Royal Hawaiian, dubbed \"Pink Palace of the Pacific,\" was built in 1927 when travelers came by ship to spend perhaps months on"}, {"response": 90, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (12:11)", "body": "Hawaii: Resort offers \"safe\" dolphin encounter Terry Nagel, Expedia.com Contributor Watch movies from the pool. Speed down a 175-foot water slide. Stroll the mile-long museum hallway, ride the canal boats, and work alongside professional animal trainers. About the only thing families visiting the Hilton Waikoloa Village won't be able to do is get bored. This 62-acre resort on the Kohala Coast of the Big Island of Hawaii was designed with families in mind, making the resort a destination unto itself. The most popular attraction? A program called \"Dolphin Quest\" where guests swim with dolphins that have been raised in captivity and are well adapted to human encounters. Advance reservations required Getting a slot in the Dolphin Quest program requires some diligence. For children ages 5\ufffd19, guests must call exactly two months to the day in advance to qualify for a dolphin encounter. The cost for children is US$85 per person. Adults wishing to participate can sign up on a lottery basis by calling ahead after making a reservation at the resort. Cost for adults is US$115 per person or US$190 per couple. An alternative to the dolphin encounter is the resort's Animal Training Adventure, where participants age 16 and older learn to work with animals such as mice, dogs, and dolphins. Cost is US$185 for 2\ufffd hours. Movies, camp, water fun If you can't swing the dolphin encounter, don't worry\ufffdthere's plenty more to do. On Saturday evenings during the warmer months, for example, guests can watch family movies while cooling off in the hotel's 22,180-square-foot Kona Pool, which has waterfalls, whirlpools, and a giant 175-foot waterslide. The sandy-bottom children's pool also offers views of the big screen. Families into water sports can pay US$15 per day for an amenities packet that includes a US$25 credit toward the rental of kayaks, paddle boats, and snorkeling gear for use in the hotel's 4-acre lagoon, which is stocked with tropical fish and sea turtles. Spa privileges, in-room coffee, and unlimited local phone calls are also included in the amenities packet. Guests age 5\ufffd12 can join \"Camp Menehune,\" a year-round program named after mythical Hawaiian \"little people.\" Each day brings a different theme, such as \"Volcano Adventure Day,\" where kids make their own volcanoes, and \"Polynesian Pirate Day,\" which includes a treasure hunt. The camp, which runs daily 9 AM\ufffd4 PM, costs US$50 and includes lunch and take-home souvenirs; half-day and family rates are available. Room rates at the Hilton Waikoloa Village start at US$380 per night."}, {"response": 91, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (12:14)", "body": "Hawaii for the weekend By Morris Dye Here are four foolproof options for planning a quick and therapeutic escape from the West Coast to Hawaii\ufffdwithout sacrificing more than a day or two of your precious vacation time. In no time at all you can be enjoying a weekend getaway on Waikiki, the Kohala Coast, Kauai, or Maui. Just what the doctor ordered The price of a weekend in the islands can range from only slightly spendy to extravagantly expensive. Unless you're traveling on a frequent flyer ticket, shop around for packages that combine air transportation, accommodations, and rental car. Packages from the West Coast often begin at less than $500 per person. You can shop for Hawaii vacation packages online through the Expedia Travel Network. Additionally, two more package dealers to try are Pleasant Holidays, Tel. 1 (800) 242-9244, and SunTrips, Tel. 1 (800) 786-8747. Packages can be cheaper than booking the various components individually\ufffdbut it is wise to check fares in the Expedia Travel Agent to be sure you are getting the best deal. Also, since most package deals use charter air service to Hawaii, bear in mind that you won't find the frequent flyer benefits and greater choice of departure times you would with a major carrier. Accommodations vary widely as well, from simple hotels and condos to posh and pricey beach resorts. Use Expedia.com's Hotel Price Matcher to get a quality room in Hawaii at the price you want. Or, use the Hotel Wizard to choose your own hotel from this list of accommodations in Hawaii, or try one of the options suggested below. Whatever your budget and wherever you stay, the blue skies and warm ocean are free to all, so select the style that suits you best, get out your credit card, and smear on the sunsc een. The Waikiki weekend Maybe the crowded strip of high-rises at Waikiki is not your dream vacation hideaway, but if time is short, don't rule out this hopping urban enclave a few minutes away from downtown Honolulu. Thanks to easy airport access and frequent flights linking Honolulu International to the mainland, it's possible to catch a flight from the West Coast on Friday evening, spend two full days at the beach, and be home in time for work on Monday morning. You won't find a square inch of sand to call your own here, but pack a healthy sense for irony next to your teensy-weensy Speedo and you really can have a good time with the Waikiki scene. If you need a break from the glitz, visit Honolulu's excellent Bishop Museum for a quick course in Hawaiian history, or rent a car and strike out in search of mellow beaches and local color in quieter corners of Oahu. Depending on where you stay, a weekend at Waikiki can be the cheapest way to go. Clean and reasonably priced rooms are available at a number of centrally located hotels (check out the Outrigger chain's various Waikiki properties, for example), with rates generally lower the farther you walk from the surf. Hawaiian Airlines, United, American, Continental, Northwest, and Delta all offer nonstop flights from the West Coast, or you can book cheap charter flights (with less flexible schedules) through discount wholesalers. Coddled on the Kohala Coast If your most recent bonus check is burning a hole in your pocket, you might prefer to treat yourself to a few days of serious R&R at the Mauna Lani Bay Hotel and Bungalows on the Big Island. The lava flats that slope down to the sea here on the kona, or leeward, side of the island are bathed in sunlight almost every day. The Mauna Lani offers 350 high-end rooms and suites on 29 waterfront acres, plus five notoriously expensive bungalows that come with private swimming pools, hot tubs, and personal butlers. With 36 holes of golf, 10 tennis courts, a health club, three restaurants, and a bar at your disposal, plus beaches, hiking trails, and several archaeological sites on the property, this is the kind of self-contained resort where you can while away a long weekend without ever leaving the grounds. To skip the added time and hassle of transferring to an interisland flight at Honolulu, check out United's nonstop service from Los Angeles or San Francisco to Kailua-Kona. Regular rates at the Mauna Lani range from $325 to $895, but outside of busy holiday periods you should be able to get in for less than the published rate by shopping around for a package deal with airfare. Condos on Kauai For a mellow beach vacation with family or friends, nothing beats a basic condominium rental on Kauai. With only one direct flight from the mainland (from Los Angeles on United) and fewer tourist accommodations than Oahu, Maui, or the Big Island, Kauai is decidedly low-key and rural, but loads of incredibly varied scenery are packed into its small space. If you're starved for sunshine, head for Poipu Beach on the island's arid south coast. You'll find plenty of condos to choose from here, a nice sandy beach, decent snorkeling right offshore, and easy access to scenic drives and hikes at Waimea Canyo"}, {"response": 92, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (12:21)", "body": "Hawaii\ufffds vivid pidgin English A quick guide to make you feel less the tourist By Jeff Williams MSNBC Oct. 21 \ufffd When the English language lands in Hawaii, takes off its shoes and starts to relax, it becomes pidgin. To the outsider, most of the words sound familiar, but sentences are garnished with words from Japanese, Portuguese, Chinese, Filipino and Hawaiian. Syntax and intonation also borrow from those languages. So, in pidgin it\ufffds not: \ufffdThe girl is pretty.\ufffd It\ufffds: \ufffdPretty, da girl.\ufffd And to make it a question, it\ufffds: \ufffdPretty da girl, yeah?\ufffd The language continues to evolve, but it maintains an essential Hawaiian flavor: relaxed, irreverent and multicultural. THE LANGUAGE was born in the early 1900s, when sugar-cane planters wanted a simple, clear way to speak with their immigrant workers. Hawaii\ufffds sugar-export economy was booming and planters had turned to Japan, China, the Philippines and other countries for cheap labor. The cane-field workers, who lived side by side in plantation camps, took the language and ran with it. Pidgin English became one of the things that helped immigrants establish a new identity as Americans. As historian Ronald Takaki writes in \ufffdA Different Mirror\ufffd: \ufffdAs [immigrants] spoke pidgin English and as they watched their children grow up in the camps and attend American schools, they realized that they had become settlers and that Hawaii had become their home.\ufffd The language continues to evolve, but it maintains an essential Hawaiian flavor: relaxed, irreverent and multicultural. It\ufffds not really advisable that you try to speak it if you haven\ufffdt grown up there, otherwise someone might tell you, \ufffdNo act.\ufffd But it never hurts to know a bit of local lingo. Here\ufffds a humorous sample of pidgin words and phrases, excerpted from \ufffdPidgin to da Max\ufffd by Douglas Simonson: Okole (oh KO leh): What you sit on in Hawaii. This word does not mean \"barstool.\ufffd Bumbye, Bambai (bum BYE): Soon enough. This is the most exact measurement of time in pidgin. Bolohead: No mo\ufffd hair. Howzit (HOW zit): Pidgin for \ufffdaloha.\ufffd T\ufffdanks eh? Pidgin for \ufffdmahalo.\ufffd Da kine (da KINE): Da kine is the keystone of pidgin. You can use it anywhere, anytime, anyhow. Very convenient. Every time: All the time; always. Haole: He\ufffds always making a fool of himself.\ufffd Pidgin: \ufffdHe go make ass (or \"make a\") every time.\ufffd Hanabata (ha na BAH ta): What you gotta wipe when yo\ufffd nose come runny. Small-kid time: Hanabata days. Junks: 1. What girls carry in their purses. 2. What guys carry in their car trunks. Mo\ufffd Bettah (mo BEH dah): Better. No act (no AK): Stop showing off. Cool it. Trying: Pidgin for \ufffdYou\ufffdre trying too hard!\ufffd Beef: Fight. See also Like beef. (John's note: you don't hear \"beef\" much anymore. The current word for fight is \"scrap.\" Like Beef? (Like scrap?) Invitation to go outside. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from \ufffdPidgin to Da Max,\ufffd by Douglas Simonson in collaboration with Ken Sakata and Pat Sasaki. Copyright \ufffd 1981 by Douglas L. Johnston. All rights reserved."}, {"response": 93, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (15:27)", "body": "Ree, some time ago you asked if I had ever witnessed a volcanic eruption. Yes. Lots and lots of them. Each one is different and more exciting than the last one. I covered some of my experienes in Geo 2 (Vulcanology)...anything specific you'd like to know?"}, {"response": 94, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Nov  1, 1999 (13:17)", "body": "Yes! Lots of specific things! LIKE: The colour. Is it like fire, or is it a different sort of red and yellow and orange? And does it smell of anything? And how hot do you get if you're close enough to see it happen. Or is the heat more confined to the eruption itself? And have you ever seen the lava run like that from the mountain? Once the lava has stopped running, what does it look like then? Are there lots of ashes or does it harden onto things so that you're left with a surreal sort of landscape? And if one should fall into the lava - do you just turn to ashes immediately?"}, {"response": 95, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov  1, 1999 (13:41)", "body": "Oh Yes! Love these questions and will try to find good photos which will show the various colors present. Colors of the hotest fluid flows can be blindingly white hot. Then the perimeters cool down to lemon yellow, bright orange, red-orange, red, through to blood red to blackish red until it is cool enough that is stops emitting light energy. Fountains are usually Orange to Red to Dark red in color - I am quoting for night viewing which is the best. Daytime has to contend with the sun so all color va ues are stopped down one cooler shade. I have never, that I recall, seen white hot during the daytime and not lemon yellow, either. Smells - when rain falls on freshly hardened lava it is like no other smell on earth. I think the only other being who did smell it was God after the creation. When it has been around for a few days it begins to emit a smell of dried celery leaves when mist hits the sun-heated rocks. Otherwise it smells hot rocks. The fumeroles which form later are the smelly ones of ill repute. This is because the lava is so hot that all gases are burnt off giving lovely little green, blue and pink flames before they can reach our noses. You can get pretty close to an accessable eruption (one near an established road). In fact you can get within about 6 feet of it before it is so hot it is not bearable. It is like looking into a furnace with the door open - a wall of heat physically holds you back. You can get a lot closer if there is no large molten lava visible and is just viewable in cracks as it moves...Cloce enough to get a glob on your rock hammer."}, {"response": 96, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov  1, 1999 (14:00)", "body": "I have seen lava rivers running downhill - and they really move - some as fast as 40 mph (64.4Kph) down steep slopes - taking trees and large slabs of cooled lava with them as they go. They can flow up and over walls and all other obstacles...and do with great regularity! It is quite exciting. When it cools we have two main types which make up the landscape: A'A which is clinkery and cools as clinkery red or black and has a dense white hot core which cools into fine-grained \"graystone\" which we use for road gravel and driveways. It is heavy and dense and full of olivines (peridots). Our quarries are mostly that type of lava. The other kind of lava is PaHoeHoe or smooth and flowing lava. Cooled, it is in flat slabs or great size which crack after time of cooling, or is formed into ropes or wh t are called \"epephant droppings.\" Need to post pix of them as soon as I can find them. It form a most surreal landscape like from another planet. When it recently \"paved\" over a small housing development in Kalapana (where the school bus picture was taken) it seemed like we had taken a wrong turn and entered a time wsrp to another world. No landmarks remain; nothing is familiar. Most unsettling! If you should fall through the thin crust of a pahoehoe flow you will be cut to ribbons since our flows are rich in silica and glass is sharp as razors. If you are unfortunate to fall into a moving river of lava - 2000\ufffdF (1093\ufffdC) you do not last long. A geologist's foot broke through a crust several years ago and his heavy boots were almost vaporized, his nomex suit was fused and he had severe burns to his leg - fortuantely a fellow geologist visiting from Italy pulled him to safety. The suit and boot are on display at the Jagger Museum on the rim of Kilauea Caldera. The worst damage was to his leg which had to be grafted and all that. Not something I ever wish to experience! It would not tak long for any vestige of you or anyone to turn to vapor. Not even ash is formed at those temperatures! Any more questions???"}, {"response": 97, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov  1, 1999 (14:05)", "body": "That is not a minus in front of the 2000\ufffdF - it was a dash. That is a positive and very hot temperature!!! Sorry about the typos...I will do better on the follow-up. Promise!"}, {"response": 98, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, Nov  1, 1999 (16:27)", "body": "Sounds absolutely thrilling! Thanks for asking the Q Ree. You write so vividly Marcia. I'm longing to see the photos."}, {"response": 99, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov  1, 1999 (17:54)", "body": "So, Ree, don't even think about diving in to hot lava. Don't even think about it!"}, {"response": 100, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov  1, 1999 (19:18)", "body": "The heat is so intense that it is like a physical force keeping you from doing anything stupid, but it does not keep you from stepping onto thin crust over a lava tube with molten stuff in it...! Smart geoolgists either take a long stick to tap the crust in front of them to check for sounds of thin crust. Otherwise they stay well back from the areas known to be active. No sacrificing to the goddess, please!"}, {"response": 101, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov  1, 1999 (21:47)", "body": "Per request, here are some eruption pictures: PAHOEHOE LAVA LAVA RIVER (darker center is due to cooling crust formation - an early stage in the formation of a lava tube. FIREHOSE LAVA POURING OUT OF THE END OF A LAVA TUBE INTO THE SEA"}, {"response": 102, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov  1, 1999 (21:50)", "body": "TOOTHPASTE LAVA - the stage when pahoehoe is beginning to turn to a'a. THIS HAPPENS WHEN YOU BUILD YOUR STREETS AND HOMES ON AN ACTIVE RIFT ZONE I am still hunting for a good a'a picture and good fountaining from a cinder cone. That tomorrow...hopefully!"}, {"response": 103, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 1999 (08:08)", "body": "This is absolutely amazing stuff, Marcia. The photos are BRILLIANT!"}, {"response": 104, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 1999 (10:30)", "body": "Thanks Dear! Today I will post what it SOUNDS like - perhaps the most amazing of all - and more great photos from the USGS who runs the Volcano Observatory."}, {"response": 105, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 1999 (11:07)", "body": "Wow! Some of them - e.g. the first one they really look like some kind of strange art -GREAT!"}, {"response": 106, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 1999 (21:58)", "body": "7 Die in Honolulu Shooting 22:33EST By BRUCE DUNFORD Associated Press Writer 11/02/99 HONOLULU (AP) -- In the latest outburst of workplace violence, a Xerox copier repairman shot and killed seven co-workers in his office building Tuesday morning, authorities said. He surrendered after a five-hour armed standoff with police. Police believe Byran Uyesugi, a 15-year Xerox employee, shot seven copier technicians at about 8 a.m. (1 p.m. EST) before fleeing in a company van. \"It appears as though it was a disgruntled employee who snapped,\" Mayor Jeremy Harris said. Police would not comment on a motive. The gunman stopped several miles from the office building, in a leafy, residential neighborhood. Police cordoned off the area and began negotiating with him about two hours later. Some five hours after the shooting, Uyesugi emerged from the van, walked to the back of the vehicle with his hands raised and then fell down on the ground. His brother had helped in the negotiations. SWAT teams raced toward him with automatic weapons drawn. No shots were heard and no injuries were reported. Uyesugi, 40, was being booked for investigation of first-degree murder, which carries a mandatory penalty of life without parole. \"It's a shock for all of us. We have such a safe community with almost no violent crime,\" Harris said. \"To have someone snap like this and murder seven people is just absolutely appalling.\" The gunfire erupted in an industrial section of Honolulu, far from the Waikiki tourist district. Five victims were found dead in a conference room and two other bodies were found nearby. All had been shot with a 9 mm handgun, authorities said. Police found 20 9 mm shell casings at the scene. At Uyesugi's home, they found 11 handguns, 5 rifles and two shotguns. The victims -- male Xerox employees -- were shot on the second floor of the two-story building, authorities said. They ranged in age from 33 to 58. Uyesugi was a member of his high school rifle team and had up to 17 weapons registered in his name. \"This could have been much, much worse,\" Harris said. By late morning in Makiki Heights, a residential neighborhood near the shooting scene, negotiators were talking with the suspect through a bullhorn. He was seen pacing back and forth outside the van. Police cordoned off a half-mile area around his van, which was near the Hawaii Nature Center. About 60 fourth-graders and 12 chaperones were on a nature hike when police told them to get to higher ground. A school bus with two rifle-toting police officers then took the students to safety. A separate group of first-graders on a field trip also were evacuated in the afternoon. About 10 homes were also evacuated. Neighborhood residents set up lawn chairs in the streets to watch the situation unfold. Xerox employees were taken across the street from the building to be questioned by police and helped by counselors. Another Xerox building, in downtown Honolulu, was evacuated in case the gunman headed that way. Xerox employs 92,700 people worldwide and 148 people in Honolulu. Uyesugi joined Xerox Corp. in 1984. As a customer service engineer, he traveled to various sites to service and repair printers and copiers, Xerox said."}, {"response": 107, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov  2, 1999 (22:16)", "body": "Talk about the Hawaii Visitors Bureau nightmare... Let me hasten to add that this happened on Oahu which is 5 islands away from us and 200 statute miles. We are fine, but distressed that it happened."}, {"response": 108, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Nov  3, 1999 (06:09)", "body": "This on top of the plane crash on a slow news day (which as a small plane would have received little play if it hadn't happened on Sunday). It is no wonder that Honolulu Mayor Jeremy Harris took over official spokesperson duties himself. This was spin control at the highest level here (where was Gov. Ben Cayetano? On a Vegas junket? With a mistress?) With the dock strike averted, why didn't he weigh in on this?"}, {"response": 109, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Nov  3, 1999 (06:16)", "body": "The gunman, Byran Uyesugi, 40, was a quiet man who lived with his father in a working-class residential neighborhood in Nu`uanu (in the foothills just above downtown Honolulu). There are stories circulating (Xerox is denying them), that they were about to downsize their Honolulu workforce and he was among those being downsized, which is why he was not actually at the meeting. He had 17 firearms registered to him, and was a 1977 graduate of Roosevelt High School in Honolulu, where he had been the star of -the riflery team. He was a crack shot. It is rare that someone could go into an office, expend so few rounds and leave all intended victims dead. They may have been about to downsize the wrong person. This guy should have been a mob hitman."}, {"response": 110, "author": "firasona", "date": "Wed, Nov  3, 1999 (07:11)", "body": "Hi Iam Firasona What to get Friends Pleaz"}, {"response": 111, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov  3, 1999 (11:07)", "body": "Welcome Firasona! Please write something and tell us about yourself. Where do you live? It is easy to make friends here...all you need to do is write to us and post it here or other places on spring. Aloha!"}, {"response": 112, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov  3, 1999 (11:14)", "body": "John, at least they got the perpetrator live so they may be able to get inside his head and find out what was bothering him...but with an arsenal like he had at home, I am not surprised that this was its outcome. Our Governor has a mistress when he has a new cute and savvy wife who has been keeping a higher profile than he has lately?! How scuzzy of him! Politics as usual, I guess!"}, {"response": 113, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Wed, Nov  3, 1999 (18:58)", "body": "I'm only guessing about the mistress. I don't know. His cute and savvy wife started as one, remember? (Actually she started out as a cute little girl in Elvis's Hawaii movies, but that's another story.) Then Benny boy dumped his original cute and savvy wife. I only think it very strange that he let Harris steal what should have been his thunder. And, as it turns out, Uyesugi was convicted of criminal property damage in 1989 for an incident where he damaged an elevator at work after having allegedly threatened a Xerox supervisor. If they did not either get rid of him or get him anger management treatment then, then Xerox must--whether they like it or not--share in the responsibility for this tragedy and travesty. I would also think that they are going to be liable in some big money lawsuits. I wouldn't doubt that there are lawyers already conta ting families of the deceased."}, {"response": 114, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov  3, 1999 (19:24)", "body": "After he had that heart attack or whatever with this newer and improved cutie model, perhaps he is letting others do the labor while he basks in the warmth of the coldest Governor's Mansion I have ever been in...?! I think anger management should be mandatory in employment as well as HERassment or whatever they call it...Lawyers are salivating since the very moment that little bit of info was released."}, {"response": 115, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Nov  4, 1999 (22:42)", "body": "What is the fastest the ash and the lava has traveled? Katie Dear Katie, Some pyroclastic flows have estimated minimum velocities of 360 miles/hour. Scott Rowland has talked about the velocity of lava flows in a previous question. Steve Mattox, University of North Dakota"}, {"response": 116, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Nov  5, 1999 (09:07)", "body": "ha-ha! You sure know how to put some spin onto the agony aunt thing. You know, where people write to tell you their problems - except with you they write to get in touch with their red hot interests...."}, {"response": 117, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Fri, Nov  5, 1999 (11:01)", "body": "It's obvious that Xerox is already trying to buy out the families cheaply. Sending the company prez/CEO to Hawaii and starting a college fund for the families with $50,000 seed money (enough to send one child to a top-rate school). 50K is a paltry sum for a corporation with Xerox's means, and I'm sure family attorneys will point that out. But here in Hawaii, the gesture is often what counts, and some of these mostly Japanese-American families will probably not wish to sue a company that has made such \" eautiful gestures\" towards them. Shame. The second Uyesugi threatened a supervisor he should have been canned--damaged elevator or no."}, {"response": 118, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov  5, 1999 (11:04)", "body": "Ree, have you been reading Fittness conf lately?! Amazing, is it not? I was just being friendly...!"}, {"response": 119, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov  5, 1999 (11:06)", "body": "Actually, I think i worded my welcome thingy a incorrectly...*sigh* No wonder he wanted me to write to him! (We have loads of Agony Aunties over here, also!)"}, {"response": 120, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Nov  6, 1999 (06:43)", "body": "Agony Aunt is good. Just imagine all those souls craving to sit at your feet at stare at you in amazement.... It is of course up to you to reveal what you think they ought to be aquainted with. \ufffdgrin\ufffd"}, {"response": 121, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov  8, 1999 (14:59)", "body": "Yes, I know...Sometimes I am far too accommodating...I'll have to watch that. I guess I scared him - he never responded to my email!"}, {"response": 122, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 1999 (07:28)", "body": "He probably ate it from sheer lust!"}, {"response": 123, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 1999 (11:50)", "body": "*lol* I don't think so! You would not believe how innocent that quick two sentences was that I sent to him really was. If he ate that from sheer lust, he has a better imagination than anyone else in the entire world (or is smoking funny stuff!)"}, {"response": 124, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 1999 (14:58)", "body": "Well, imaginations are pretty fierce things, you know... Especially if your two lines contained words like 'blow', 'hot flames', 'runny hot substance' - ya know, all thadda scientific stuffs."}, {"response": 125, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 1999 (17:07)", "body": "Oh yes...You do not have to remind me of the erupting and flowing and ejecta and so forth...most evocative!"}, {"response": 126, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov  9, 1999 (17:29)", "body": "(but I did not mention them to that new guy...unless he was lurking in here...must check. I know he has been to Geo. ....uh oh!!!)"}, {"response": 127, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Nov 10, 1999 (04:07)", "body": "Hey ho, ho hey!!!"}, {"response": 128, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 10, 1999 (15:54)", "body": "Yup...he was there, as well. Hmmm... Do you think I have gotten my very own Tim? Perish the thought!"}, {"response": 129, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (12:01)", "body": "You don't want that, believe me!"}, {"response": 130, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (23:38)", "body": "One of my first \"jobs\" upon being taken into the fold (so to speak) was toread all of the posts before I got there. I read all about your travails. I would not wish them on anyone - no even someone I truly disliked. I believe you!"}, {"response": 131, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (09:34)", "body": "Ree: \"Hey ho, ho hey!!!\" Hey, we ain't go no ho's round here!"}, {"response": 132, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (16:35)", "body": "The only ho we have is Hana Ho which is loosely translated as 'one for time' or 'do it again'... otherwise we all be ladies on the Spring...*smile*"}, {"response": 133, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (16:36)", "body": "Hana ho....\"one more time\" (not what got posted before I could grab it back)"}, {"response": 134, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (08:25)", "body": "Where's the best beach?"}, {"response": 135, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (13:30)", "body": "On The Big Island, Hapuna or any of the beaches on the North Kona - Kohala coast (west side of the island). On the rest of the islands, there are many - almost all beaches are best for whatever you want to do. Some are better for snorkling, some better for surfing."}, {"response": 136, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (13:47)", "body": "I just asked the male of the manse and he said Kauai (South Pacific was filmed there)has the best beaches, but I think they tend to be too small. He agrees with me that Waikiki Beach is a tourist trap and totally unfit - hardly any sand and what there is has tourists and people selling you stuff all over it. Avoid! Our island is so BIG that there are beaches all along the coasts some of which hardly ever see occupation. Just be ready for a little hike to it from the road."}, {"response": 137, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (13:54)", "body": "Where's the best swimming?"}, {"response": 138, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (14:20)", "body": "The best swimming is on the protected shores of the West and South coasts of the Islands. The North Coasts are the roughest and that is where Bonzai Beach and Pipeline are on Oahu where they hold the surfing championships each year. We have no north-facing beaches on the Big Island - towering cliffs comprise our North Coast. The Northeast is the direction from which our trade winds come and can be stormy, choppy or placid depending on the weather systems in the Eastern Pacific at the time (as with the est of the beaches, for that matter.) That is the side on which Hilo is situated. We have a 2 mile breakwater protecting Hilo Bay from big combers (ineffectual against Tsunamis), but the harbor gets storm surges in the winter which make all but the biggest ships anchor away from the piers."}, {"response": 139, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (15:06)", "body": "Where's the best place to sip margueritas and watch the sun dip in to the ocean?"}, {"response": 140, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (15:18)", "body": "It has to be the Kona - Kohala coast which is west-facing. Anywhere along that coast, where whales will entertain you as the sun sinks slowly into a molten gold sea and salutes you with a \"green Flash.\" They actually do happen, and I have even seen an aquamarine flash once. Most memorable. Huggo's is right on the beach and serves excellent food at big prices, but all dining rooms and bistros in Kailua-town would accommodate you with a view and Margarita, from Drysdale's to the dining room of the King Kamehameha Hotel to the truly upscale Mauna Kea Beach Resort... Sippin'um from your own lanai is nice, as well. Relaxed and lovely, especially nice with special company...*smile*"}, {"response": 141, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (04:11)", "body": "Huggo's sounds cool, but I was looking for something in the hills or mountains, with a commanding view of the islands and ocean. Any place fit that bill?"}, {"response": 142, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (11:58)", "body": "Oh yeah! I thought you wanted to have the water lapping at your feet. The mountainside in Kona is a steep one into which the main highways have been cut. Along the lower and upper ones there are plenty of places to stay. One rated 4 lips (their highest rating) on 'Best Places to Kiss' on the Travel Channel (a Bed and Breakfast with a huge view.) The best way to see the mountains is from Hilo. Any hotel on Banyan Drive will offer you a sunset over the mountains with snowy peaks. The two biggest are the Naniloa and the Hilo Hawaiian. John lives just a few doors down from there...gotta get him back in here to tell you of his view. Your best bet, however to see any other islands (Maui is visible from our island but it takes a very clear day to see the rest at all, and then they are mere bluish bars on the horizon) is Kona for scenery or Maui looking back at us."}, {"response": 143, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (12:53)", "body": "You're getting warmer, looking for a. restaurant that serves great food and margueritas b. spectacular view of ocean and other islands c. facing west for sunsets"}, {"response": 144, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (13:49)", "body": "The Kona Ranch House is my favorite. It is in Kailua-town in a remodelled old home. Lovely setting and the best food at that altitude. Very special service, as well; I had Happy Birthday sung to me by the entire dining populace as well as wait-staff and a little cake with a candle was presented to me. I think great Margaritas are avasilable anywhere in Kona except for the obvious fast food places. You need to reserve one of the few ocean view tables ahead, though. That is its one drawback...thinking...most of the places with great views and great food are at sea level, I'm afraid, but you can see rare green sea turtles and loggerhead turtles, whales, dolphin (including spinners), and take in the tide pools after dinner to see night life on the reef. Fascinating and very colorful. Most tidepools are flood-lit so you can see the fishies and things in there better."}, {"response": 145, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (13:53)", "body": "I have just fired off an email to a friend in Kona to ask her the same questions just in case I have forgotten one. Do you care which island this is on? I am not terribly familiar with the other Islands as I have not gone island-hopping in many years."}, {"response": 146, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (13:58)", "body": "I also emailed John with your questions and told him to get his okole back in here."}, {"response": 147, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (15:18)", "body": "THIS FROM JOHN: the other islands part makes that one tough...the islands aren't that close together...otherwise I'd say Jamieson's in Kona and the Kona Inn Restaurant fills the other two requirements (although at Jamieson's I'd order Irish coffee instead of margaritas)."}, {"response": 148, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (15:19)", "body": "Oh, and he said he would be posting again but had to straighten something out first...*smiling happily*"}, {"response": 149, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (17:01)", "body": "Tell me more about this two places and what they're like! (living vicariously in Hawaii is fun)."}, {"response": 150, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (17:27)", "body": "(Living here is even better) I can tell you about the Kona Inn Restaurant It is seaside and you can either dine indoors or out on the grassy sward dotted with just the right number of palm trees. The grass is rolled and kept quite short, so it is like carpeting. No bugs to bother you there...sparrows and mynah birds may beg a little, but they are easily ignored. Each table has candles, table cloth and the whole works. You are not dining like a savage in this place. The indoor part is mostly glass d ors which can be accordioned open or shut depending on the weather. It is truly lovely. The sound you hear are palm fronds rattling gently in the cooling breezes, live Hawaiian music from the little stage which straddles the space between the dining room and the bar and is open to the lawn, and waves gently lapping at the shore just a little way from you. No sea gulls here, so no noise from them."}, {"response": 151, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (19:22)", "body": "This from John: Jamison's has kind of an Irish pub atmosphere inside and a lanai outside and tiki torches--romantic after dark. Kona Inn is an indoor-outdoor establishment on the beach with a seawall. Both have good steaks and a very well-done American-style menu. At the Kona Inn, make sure you eat a slice of \"mud pie,\" a sinfully rich chocolate ice cream pie. Huggo's is a terrific seafood restaurant, with dancing after dining hours. All are on the water in Kailua-Kona, which I think, has some of the best sunsets this side of heaven. On a very clear day with no vog, one can see Maui, but that is rare in Kona as most of the haze from the volcano goes to that side. Taeng-On Thai is a second-story establishment on Kona's Ali`i Drive (also on the waterfront). Sahm, the chef is an amazing woman. The food is not only great, but the service is terrific. And my buddy, Joe (Sahm's significant other), a scary-looking Guamanian with a shaved head (he's actually a really nice guy, but can take care of business as a bouncer, if need be) who tends bar there makes as good a Margarita as I've ever had. They used to have a Hilo restaurant as well, but sold it to friends when the Kona place started to get so much business that they could no longer take care of both. Joe is also a terrific Mexican chef. He could open up the best Mexican restaurant on the island tomorrow, but prefers working with Sahm (both are workaholics, so it's a good relationship)."}, {"response": 152, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (07:04)", "body": "And all these places have great views of sunsets?"}, {"response": 153, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (12:25)", "body": "They do, and so do the following which came from a lady of independent means in Kona: If price is no object Pahui'a at the 4 Seasons. Otherwise Tres Hombres in Kawaihae, also the canoe house at Mauna Lani, and Jamieson's and Kona Inn. On Maui I would go for the dining room at the Prince or the 4 Seasons, although there are good places in Kaanapali too. On Kauai I would go for the Beach house in Poipu, even though it faces south, it should not be missed. On Oahu I would opt for either under the Hau tree at the Kaimana Beach Hotel, or La Mer at the Halekulani. The Kahala Mandarin also has a great setting. How much money do they want to spend, these places are, for the most part, costly.."}, {"response": 154, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 19, 1999 (19:53)", "body": "Are houses outrageously expensive?"}, {"response": 155, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov 19, 1999 (20:07)", "body": "YES! The house we bought on a 1/3 acre corner lot for $25,700 is now estimated for tax purposes to be worth $170,000. The house is nothing special...and this is on an \"outer island\" where we actually own the land it is sitting on. On Oahu they cost twice as much for half the house (or condo), and you are almost always on \"leased land\" which means you are renting it and have a limited amount of time before you move your house or surrender it!"}, {"response": 156, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Jan 14, 2000 (12:48)", "body": "Hi Marcia, an article I was reading last night was really interesting. 'Linguistic inequality in Hawaii: The post-creole dilemma' 'The people of Hawaii form one of the most ethnically diverse communities in the US. Hawaii is, in fact, the only american state where no single ethnic group comprises a majority and where most of the people come from Asia and a myriad of Pacific Islands rather than from Europe or Africa.' I wasn't really clear from it if there are two Hawaiian languages - a pidgin and a creole. Hawaiian Pidgin English appears to be a mix of Hawaiian and English vocabulary embedded in the grammatical structure of a speaker's native language - they give examples from a Japanese background and Filipino background. What do you think? One example I liked (from a Japanese speaker): samtain gud rod get, samtain, olsem ben get, enguru get, no? sometimes-good-road-get, sometimes, all same-bend-get, angle get, no? enikain sem, Olsen hyumen life, olsen gud rodu get, enguru set, mauntin any kind-same, all same-human-life, sometimes-good-road-get, angle get, mountain get - no? get 'Sometimes there's a good road, sometimes there's something llike a bend, and angle, right? Everything's like that. Human life is the same. there are good roads, there are angles, there are mountains - right?'"}, {"response": 157, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jan 14, 2000 (14:04)", "body": "Pidgin is a collection of all languages but mostly fractured English. It is much easier to understand than to read what the writer though it sounded like. Pidgin is almost 1/2-1/2 English and Hawaiian spoken with ethnic accents...and most of the local ethnic accents have become more amalgamated than this above would imply. I forwarded your post to John for his comments. He is better by far to comment on it than I am. Your translation was correct as close as I can tell...;)"}, {"response": 158, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jan 15, 2000 (00:37)", "body": "From John Burnett The local language is totally creolized. But here locally we call it \"pidgin.\" Linguists call it Hawaii Creole English or HCE for short. \"Pidgins\" are made-up languages that haven't become the everyday language of a place. They are used to facilitate communication between differing racial and ethnic groups. A language becomes \"creolized\" when it becomes the lingua franca (everyday first language) of a significant population sector. Therefore there really is no more pidgin in socioliguists and ethnolinguists terms in Hawaii. The locals will never start calling the local lingo \"Creole\" though--that is a linguists term. The example from the Japanese speaker she cites is obviously pre-WWII. Almost nobody talks like that anymore, even FOBs (\"fresh off the boats\"). \"Bin\" or \"Ben\" (a grammatical place marker denoting the next verb as past tense) as long been replaced by \"wen\" or \"win.\" Everybody in Hawaii can pronounce a \"d\" and would not use the \"ru.\" That's totally Japanese immigrant. Not everyone can pronounce the \"th\" consonant blend, though. It comes across as a hard \"t\" or a \"d\" depending on grammatical context with HCE speakers. I wonder if the article that is cited is by Suzanne Romaine. I am familiar with the speech cited here. Romaine, author of \"Pidgins and Creole Languages\" is the Merton Chair Professor of English at Oxford and a giant in pidgin and creole languages, especially Tok Pisin of Papua New Guinea, but is also expert at HCE. I highly recommend the book if Maggie doesn't have it. Romaine does research here and usually teaches summer courses at UH-Hilo. She owns a home in lower Puna. And yes, I was her student."}, {"response": 159, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jan 15, 2000 (00:42)", "body": "John never lets me down and I should have asked him before I posted what I did. Thank you for your excellent discussion of Creole/pidgin. ...THE Suzanne Romaine?! No wonder you are so accomplished. You continue to impress even en absentia. *hugs* John!"}, {"response": 160, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Jan 15, 2000 (06:35)", "body": "I'm impressed! Yes, I have read Romaine's book ( and others). I'm not at all surprised that the quote was pre-WWII but I wish the suthor had said so. It was in Sato, Charles, 1985, 'Linguistic Inequality in Hawaii: the Post-Creole Dilemma' in Wolfson, N. & Manes, J. (1985) Language of Inequality, Seireis: contributions to the sociology of language edited by Joshua Fishman, Mouton Publishers I get very frustrated when modern authors rely on second hand outdated data to make a point. However, to be fair, perhaps I didn't read the article thoroghly enough and the change is noted. I knew Romaine worked extensively in PNG I didn't know about Hawii, or that she taught there."}, {"response": 161, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb  1, 2000 (19:16)", "body": "Now, for a little bit o spam. WIN A FREE TRIP TO HAWAII FROM OFFICE 2000 http://www.microsoft.com/misc/officecontest/ Enter today to win the Microsoft Office 2000 \"Ultimate Coffee Break\"--on the Kon a Coast on the \"Big Island\" of Hawaii, home of some of the best coffee in the wo rld. You could also win a copy of Office 2000 Premium. So spread the word, and p ass this link to your friends (but don't forget to enter yourself first!). For c ontest details and official rules, visit the online address above."}, {"response": 162, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Feb  1, 2000 (19:30)", "body": "Gee! I did not see that offer...hmmm...wonder what they'd give me if I won...!"}, {"response": 163, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb  1, 2000 (22:39)", "body": "2000 cups of Kona coffee?"}, {"response": 164, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Feb  1, 2000 (23:39)", "body": "Whoopee! Or,they could give us 2000 miles of limo service...to and from Basketball games or something. Do you realize the problems 2000 cups of Kona coffee would cause in one individual's sleeping habits? Too horrible to contemplate!"}, {"response": 165, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2000 (13:03)", "body": "Ahhhh it's only for people in the US - cheapskates!!"}, {"response": 166, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2000 (13:10)", "body": "...and, like so many others, they do not think of Hawaii as being part of the United States even though we just celebrated our 40th anniversary as a state! Hey, Bill Gates might be down to his last $100 Billion...poor baby!"}, {"response": 167, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2000 (13:17)", "body": "Hey where did the new buttons come from - and what is Kill?????"}, {"response": 168, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2000 (13:40)", "body": "Please do not touch any buttons you do not know about. It will kill the topic and it will disappear entirely. Everyone has these and there is a very real problem with that!!!"}, {"response": 169, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2000 (13:41)", "body": "Only the hosts of the conference should lave access to the kill button and the other curious ones up there. Please leave them alone!!! (I am saying this to everyone who can see this!)"}, {"response": 170, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Feb  3, 2000 (08:43)", "body": "I think the kill button will only work for hosts and folks who create the topics. Best to leave it alone unless in a drastic emergency, Maybe we could make it smaller and less prominent and rename it to 'annihilate'. Something more user friendly."}, {"response": 171, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb  3, 2000 (12:02)", "body": "Good idea! I am happy it looks so deadly and different from the rest. I would hate to hit it by mistake. Btw, are the files still available in telnet after they have been \"killed\" or is it instant oblivion? Just wondering...not contemplating using it...EVER!"}, {"response": 172, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Feb  3, 2000 (15:49)", "body": "Whew!! I'm glad I asked"}, {"response": 173, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb  3, 2000 (16:21)", "body": "I juat hope others are not so curious that they play with the \"new\" buttons before asking... We just might have problems of monumental proportions!"}, {"response": 174, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb  3, 2000 (16:34)", "body": "I just hope...sorry! Better flake out for a little while..."}, {"response": 175, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Feb  4, 2000 (13:41)", "body": "The buttons have now disappeared. However, so has England in this conference - yes, still!"}, {"response": 176, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Feb  4, 2000 (21:31)", "body": "Praise be! I cannot tell because I am a host...! Thanks for telling me that, Maggie."}, {"response": 177, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Feb  4, 2000 (21:32)", "body": "If England has disappeared I shall reinstate it!"}, {"response": 178, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Feb  5, 2000 (07:03)", "body": "Ta muchly"}, {"response": 179, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Feb  5, 2000 (12:00)", "body": "Let me know if you need help with the English restoratoin."}, {"response": 180, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Feb  5, 2000 (13:29)", "body": "Terry, it is there big as life and updated by me as regards the missing posts. If she has trouble getting in, I do not know why that should be!"}, {"response": 181, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Feb  6, 2000 (11:33)", "body": "Hi, yes I am still having difficulties. I can get in on the address marcia gave me, but not through the travel conference - which I get to no problem because it doesn't appear in my topic listing. Wierd! I've made a bookmark to it from the address marcia gave me and will get in that way for now."}, {"response": 182, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Feb  6, 2000 (11:36)", "body": "oops missed out a hyphen. Meant to say : I can get in on the address Marcia gave me, but not through the travel conference - which I get to no problem - because England doesn't appear in my topic listing (after I selected 'all')"}, {"response": 183, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Feb  6, 2000 (14:13)", "body": "Yup, Terry, Topic 20 England is missing from travel/all. I just checked!"}, {"response": 184, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Feb  6, 2000 (16:47)", "body": "Oh good, I thought I was hallucinating!"}, {"response": 185, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Feb  6, 2000 (18:05)", "body": "Now, both of the posts you made - here and in 20 showed up on my hotlist but when I came in here to travel/all/new it showed it as no new responses. They must still be tweaking the system."}, {"response": 186, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, May  1, 2000 (08:05)", "body": "The NBC Today is live from Kileua today and they're showing spectacular pictures of lava flows. It's 2 am in Hawaii. I'm taping some of it for replay on our webcam later, if it's not acting up like it was yesterday!"}, {"response": 187, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, May  3, 2000 (20:06)", "body": "Yes, Terry! Splendid thought. We missed some of it - and I'd love to go down to see it again. The best time to go is twilight so you can see what the land looks like and where it is coming down the slopes. As it gets dark the previously ivisible glowing lava takes on the shimmer of beaten gold against black velvet."}, {"response": 188, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, May  4, 2000 (07:19)", "body": "Who was the guy with the bandana on his head? Sure I'll run it this morning."}, {"response": 189, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May  6, 2000 (23:21)", "body": "Your morning is 5 hours ahead of ours...when it is 10am for you it is still 5am for us in Hawaii. The guy in the Bandana was one of the observatory guys. They wear them to keep the heat out of their lungs and face. That stuff is molten rock!"}, {"response": 190, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, May 24, 2000 (14:26)", "body": "Taken last night near Hilo Bay at a Wrap-up party for the Scholarship fund drive. Hilo Bay looking toward slope of Mauna Loa looking west The shoreline looking east Food! Marcia in white and navy serving self"}, {"response": 191, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, May 24, 2000 (14:28)", "body": "Well, I guess you might like to see that tease I posted... FOOD! (me in White and Navy)"}, {"response": 192, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, May 24, 2000 (22:47)", "body": "Contrary to what it may seem, I am not preparing to devour the entire feast, I am trying to get the plastic wrap out of the potato salad and to anchor it so it would not blow back at an inopportune time, and the guy behind me is waiting impatiently."}, {"response": 193, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, May 25, 2000 (21:30)", "body": "Big Isle\ufffds Kaunaoa top beach in U.S. Five others in the islands rank in the top 20 listing of a Florida geologist Star-Bulletin staff The Big Island's Kaunaoa Beach heads this year's list of America's Best Beaches. Five other Hawaii beaches also were rated in the top 20 by Stephen Leatherman -- \"Dr. Beach\" -- a Florida International University coastal geologist. He said Kaunaoa Beach is known for great sunny weather. \"This long, crescent-shaped, white sand beach contrasts with the black lava headlands that frame it. It is a great place to swim and snorkel in the sparkling clear waters, especially in the summer months.\" Other island beaches in this year's top 20 are: Poipu Beach Park on Kauai (No. 3); Hanalei Beach, Kauai (No. 4); Kaanapali Beach, Maui (No. 5); Hamoa Beach, Maui (No. 8), and Hanauma Bay, Oahu (No. 17). Two Hawaii beaches also were named among 10 of the country's best beaches with nightlife: Kapalua Bay, Maui, and Waikiki Beach, Oahu. This is the fifth year in a row that Hawaii had the top beach in the survey. Previous ones were Wailea Beach on Maui, 1999; Kailua Beach Park, Oahu, 1998; Hulopoe on Lanai, 1997, and Lanikai Beach, Oahu, 1996. Leatherman uses 50 factors to judge beaches. They include the number and size of waves, condition of the sand, whether there are rip currents, biological and wildlife factors, human use and impacts, views, traffic and noise."}, {"response": 194, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, May 25, 2000 (21:35)", "body": "The map for this top-ranking beach is below...I can't remember ever being there."}, {"response": 195, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, May 25, 2000 (21:38)", "body": "I think this is the beach called Beach 69 because there is a power pole of that number standing where to foot path goes down to the water...Never been there!"}, {"response": 196, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, May 27, 2000 (04:51)", "body": "Try out: http://honolulu.about.com/citiestowns/alaskahawaii/honolulu/library/hawaii/blhilo4.htm A walking tour of Hilo town, island of Hawaii. It was fun."}, {"response": 197, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, May 27, 2000 (12:08)", "body": "207 Kilauea - Biker Store Harley parts, new and used, accessories and tee shirts. 223A Kilauea - Bytes and Bites An opportunity to take a break, have a coffee juice, soft drink and snack while you surf the Net and check your Email. The friendly staff and ambience will make you feel at home. (this is where I get sidetracked)"}, {"response": 198, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May 27, 2000 (12:15)", "body": "Aha! That's where you've been...have missed your posts... There really IS a bike store there, but it is for human powered equipment, not petrol! We call it Front Street (because it is!) but it is really Kilauea Avenue."}, {"response": 199, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May 27, 2000 (12:17)", "body": "Yup..Bites and Bytes is in a really old building (circa 1920 is OLD here!) and Kamehameha Avenue is the front street - sorry. There is a great bike store there as well...Kilauea is the next street up (inland)."}, {"response": 200, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, May 27, 2000 (13:24)", "body": "What kind of scene is that Bytes and Bites, is it busy? Hows' the food? What kind of setup for surfing to they have?"}, {"response": 201, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May 27, 2000 (15:01)", "body": "Never been in there, but I shall check and let you know."}, {"response": 202, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, May 27, 2000 (15:46)", "body": "Hey, this is fun! Maybe we'll find other places you haven't been! what about the angel shop - that intrigued me. We have a teddy bear shop in Henley, and i haven't been in there either, just keep driving past it."}, {"response": 203, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May 27, 2000 (19:50)", "body": "Never went into the angel shop and just noticed it once out the corner of my eye. Hafta check it out, too. These places are down in the old part of town where if the termites don't hold hands, the entire place will fall down. They are little home grown holes in the wall and tend to be pricey and more for the hippy sort than I tend to be.... I'll let you know what I discover. This IS fun!"}, {"response": 204, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, May 28, 2000 (16:53)", "body": "Now if only they did the same sorta thing for HW!!!! Just think what you'd find for me to go and look at!!! (the teddy bear shop is like that too, it's in an elizabethan building, you'd like it - but not the prices)"}, {"response": 205, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sun, May 28, 2000 (17:43)", "body": "We'll have to cook up some more things for you to check out, Marcia. You're like our very own Hawaiin remote module, so we're sending you to the hippie section now, be sure to wear flowers in your hair."}, {"response": 206, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May 28, 2000 (17:54)", "body": "I hear you - and plenty of beads... My digital camera till tell the tale along with my words. What fun. Warning - this is NOT gonna be the prettiest part of Hilo, let alone the Island of Hawaii... But you will see interesting people there if I can pry them out of the woodwork. The area is not safe at night, btw."}, {"response": 207, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, May 29, 2000 (07:56)", "body": "Sounds like a day trip then. Be careful. It will be interesting to see the inside of the cybercafe. That's great you're putting up all these visuals."}, {"response": 208, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, May 29, 2000 (10:29)", "body": "Yeah, go for it!!"}, {"response": 209, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, May 29, 2000 (10:54)", "body": "I will be accompanied by my driver who is a pretty burly guy considering his antiquity. I'll be ok. Wonder if they are open on Holidays..."}, {"response": 210, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, May 29, 2000 (18:38)", "body": "Go look for us!! (is it that unsafe??? go carefully too)"}, {"response": 211, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, May 29, 2000 (22:27)", "body": "Only unsafe at night when the shops close and the druggies gather at a park nearby. There was a knifing there not long ago..."}, {"response": 212, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, May 30, 2000 (02:03)", "body": "Oh, HW is like that too!!! That's why we get nervous about H coming home late at night from work in town."}, {"response": 213, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, May 30, 2000 (11:23)", "body": "On a slightly different tack, check this one out Marcia. http://www.statlab.iastate.edu/soils/photogal/statesoils/hi_soil.htm"}, {"response": 214, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, May 30, 2000 (11:27)", "body": "Have you been here before either? http://www.weatherunderground.com/US/HI/Hilo.html"}, {"response": 215, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, May 30, 2000 (12:49)", "body": "Maggie! Only you would/could find a webpage with Hilo's soil profile on it. In the classic instance of what truly definies top soil, we have none here. It is all to new. The best is what everyone else thinks of as subsoil and as such needs much nutrient additives introduced during the growing season. It IS interesting, though... In one of my very first posts in Gewo's wx (weather) topic (14) I specified Wunderground as the one which was the engine running my dektop programs such as wetsock and WinWeather, both of which are up and running on my desktop. Thanks for reminding us and for zeroing in on Hilo!"}, {"response": 216, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, May 30, 2000 (13:20)", "body": "*grin*!!!"}, {"response": 217, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, May 30, 2000 (20:09)", "body": "Where in Hawaii is Marcia today?"}, {"response": 218, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, May 30, 2000 (21:35)", "body": "*sigh* in the corner of my bedroom at the computer crunching SETI data (on my 5th block of it). Will see if I can't get out tomorrow. Gotta get on the driver's schedule and be able to be in a confined space with him...but tomorrow is special and I should be able to do whatever I want!"}, {"response": 219, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, May 31, 2000 (01:40)", "body": "Yeah - go for it!!! (and please, please, please let it be a lovely day!)"}, {"response": 220, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, May 31, 2000 (02:27)", "body": "If I don't have to spend the day alone! Thanks!!! I'd love to show you the volcano, too. It is erupting nicely!!!"}, {"response": 221, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Jun  2, 2000 (15:28)", "body": "waiting patiently ...."}, {"response": 222, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jun  2, 2000 (16:06)", "body": "so am I but not all that patiently. Fluid lava is only visible from the air right now.....*sigh* (I'm cleaning bathroom and hanging new shower curtain and doing other Domestic Goddess things around here)"}, {"response": 223, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Jun  3, 2000 (04:45)", "body": "So, you didn't get to out for your birthday?"}, {"response": 224, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun  3, 2000 (22:45)", "body": "Dinner... But I did have fun on the internet *grin* I removed \"online romance\" off my favorites list"}, {"response": 225, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun  3, 2000 (22:48)", "body": "Sheesh - and removed my grammar as well... Man, it's been quiet since I became proper again - but what an adventure! Think it is not over yet... I have been added to 10 or 20 people's lists and I do not recall any women... Hmmmm..."}, {"response": 226, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (21:31)", "body": "BELATED HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MARCIA!"}, {"response": 227, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jun 19, 2000 (23:14)", "body": "Thank you Dear......*HUGS*"}, {"response": 228, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Jun 24, 2000 (03:40)", "body": "Put this in springark, but it sorta fits here too: any whale watching tales Marcia??? SING OUT LOUD, SING OUT LONG Some male humpback whales lengthened their songs while others ceased to sing altogether when exposed to low-frequency sonar tests off the coast of Hawaii in 1998, suggesting that sonar transmissions by the U.S. Navy could disrupt whale breeding and cause other behavioral changes, according to a new study published in the journal Nature. On average, the whales' songs were 30 percent longer than normal, a strong shift given that the sonar was tested at less than full strength, said Patrick Miller, lead study author and a scientist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Still, he said the researchers didn't notice any \"extreme reactions\" in the whales such as breaching. Many environmentalists are calling on the Navy to end some of its uses of sonar, saying that it can disorient and killwhales. straight to the source: BBC News, 06.22.00 http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_801000/801458.stm"}, {"response": 229, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Jun 24, 2000 (03:41)", "body": "(I think you lost the remote control, Terry, Marcia hasn't posted any pix!!! *grin*)"}, {"response": 230, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun 24, 2000 (20:37)", "body": "Have not gotten together with the Master (otherwise known as \"wheels\") but camera is ready to roll. Been sidetracked for a short while. Gotta get out and take pix... Yup! Lots of Whale-watching tales from my former life....when I had a Real Life"}, {"response": 231, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Sep 13, 2000 (07:50)", "body": "Jeffrey Field, also known as \"fatty moon\", recently visited Hawaii, some excerpts and the web address. http://www.noresistance.com/mystic.html I had absolutely no desire to go to Hawaii. Hawaii is the name of the Big Island. Hawaii is also the name of the seven islands which comprise our 50th state. The Big Island is, well, big. Twice as large as all the other islands combined. About the size of Connecticut. You won't find Diamond Head, or Honolulu, or Waikiki, or Pearl Harbor on the Big Island. They're located on O'ahu. The Big Island has something for everyone. Twenty of the 22 climatological areas are located here (everything but the sub-Sahara and the tundra.) Ice and snow to dripping rain forests - you name it and you'll find it on the Big Island. But I'm not here to describe our physical trip. I'm going to tell you about the trip behind the trip. . . . and there's more on this website from fattymoon@well.com, who occasionally visits Spring.net."}, {"response": 232, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Sep 13, 2000 (10:32)", "body": "Cross posted from Geo 17 ( http://www.volcano-hawaii.com/petroglyphs.htm ) Petroglyphs:Ancient Hawaiian Rock Art Want to get a true picture of the history of Hawai'i? You can learn a lot from Hawaiian petroglyphs - ancient rock carvings that tell stories about early life on the islands. The Hawaiian petroglyphs is a great mystery of the Pacific. No one knows who made them or why, but it seems that perhaps ordinary people, not artists, etched the linear and triangular figures into the pahoehoe lava. These graphic carvings, more than 3,000 of them, were probably made as part of ritual or prayer and speak of spiritual phenomena - mana. Upon approaching a petroglyphs field, a wonderful cast of characters leap to life. There are dancers, paddlers, fishermen, and family groups. Turtle, dog, ship and horse symbols are also depicted, as well as fish hooks, spears, poi pounders and canoes. There are 135 different petroglyphs sites on six inhabited islands, but most of them are found on the Big Island of Hawai'i."}, {"response": 233, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Sep 13, 2000 (10:48)", "body": "Take a virtual tour of Hawaii Tropical Botanical Garden http://www.htbg.com/tour/index.html Beautiful flower pix, some take a bit of a time to load though .."}, {"response": 234, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Wed, Sep 13, 2000 (13:28)", "body": "I'll be interested in your and Marcia's comments on Jeffries fascinating travelougue."}, {"response": 235, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 14, 2000 (01:12)", "body": "*Whew* I had forgotten to look in here for a while. Yup! The Big Island is the magnificent stepchild of the Hawaiian Islands. We are 4000 square miles in size and growing even as I write this. Wow! I am amazed at the wonderful posts. Sprin5...Thanks!!! You did more for my morale in those comments. This is a unique and most diverse landmass probably acre for acre than anywhere else in the world. We have enven had glaciation on the highest peaks! You will be seeing pix soon - my son and his fiancee are arriving next month to introduce her to volcanoes, Hawaii and all the rest. I will tag along for some of the journeys to discovery and have my digital with me. I can hardly wait!!! Maggie, how could I forget Petroglyphs??!! I have hiked across the burning lava and barren deserts here to seek them out. I'll post pictures of them - a few in here and a few in Geo 17. Thanks all for your interest. I am delighted and cannot wait to read the rest of the comments in those enticing URLs. Mahalo!"}, {"response": 236, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Sep 14, 2000 (01:38)", "body": "(I posted that in Geo too!!!!!!) Looking forward to the pix"}, {"response": 237, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Sep 22, 2000 (16:20)", "body": "Found another virtual Hawaiian tour. The video clip isn't really worth the download (IMHO) but the photo tours of the islands are nice ...and the volcano pix. (Marcia I've forwarded a few of the HILO pix for you...!) Here's the Big Island URL http://satftp.soest.hawaii.edu/space/hawaii/all.bi.vfts.html This is just for Kilauea and has Hilo pix http://satftp.soest.hawaii.edu/space/hawaii/vfts/kilauea/kilauea.vfts.html"}, {"response": 238, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Sep 22, 2000 (16:21)", "body": "Here's the URL for all the Hawaiian islands virtual tour http://satftp.soest.hawaii.edu/space/hawaii/virtual.field.trips.html"}, {"response": 239, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Sep 22, 2000 (16:56)", "body": "Thanks Maggie!!! Wish you could hear it. Smell it. It is amazing over here!"}, {"response": 240, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Sep 22, 2000 (18:13)", "body": "One day.......!"}, {"response": 241, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Oct 13, 2000 (10:30)", "body": "I read this account of the housing ordeal in Hawaii. True? We recently sold our condo north of Lahaina and have been facing the ordeal of trying to find a place to live in west Maui. We were willing to take just about anything, since it's only a transitional move for about a year while we build a house, but damn!--what a nightmare! We ran an ad daily for a month in the local paper, and didn't get a single bite (except for a room in a cane house in Lahaina--shower out back). Finally, through word of mouth, we managed to nail down an ohana (cottage)--I don't think it's bigger than 400 square feet--unfurnished, for $1200 a month. It will be tight quarters for about a year. What's a cane house?"}, {"response": 242, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct 13, 2000 (13:13)", "body": "Cane house? I am guessing that it is a house built for workers by the sugar cane companies way back when - they are all alike and tiny bungalow style houses with the amenities at a bare minimum (but did not realize the shower was outdoors!) Lahina is a happenin' place with lots of artists and pricey eateries and galleries all over the place on Maui. Maui is expensive anymore and local people usually do not afford it. Sad! We used to go to Maui for a week each summer just to get away... and now that is no longer affordable!"}, {"response": 243, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct 13, 2000 (13:18)", "body": "As to your original question, prices of land / houses on all islands is unbelievable. This nisland is not so bad because we are huge by comparison. Yes, it is very likely true! For around Lahina"}, {"response": 244, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sun, Oct 15, 2000 (10:13)", "body": "She's real nice! Congratulations Hawaii!"}, {"response": 245, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct 15, 2000 (13:55)", "body": "There she is.....Mis America...! And UH football won their first game the same evening...and UHHilo won our first volleyball game of the season. It was a great weekend. Thanks for posting her! Lovely lady and most representative of the population!"}, {"response": 246, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Nov  3, 2000 (07:12)", "body": "Did you make it to any Halloween celebrations in Hawaii, Marci? Do they make a big deal of it?"}, {"response": 247, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov  3, 2000 (15:18)", "body": "Hawaii makes a big deal of it for kids. Like clockwork, at 8pm all disappear back to from whence they came. If your porch light is not on, they do not bother you. It is fun. Lots of the schools and malls have events to occupy the kiddies, too. One year I was a judge and one little kid came dressed as a swamp monster covered entirely - excepting for his feet and ankles - in Spanish Moss. He (I think it was male) won, of course! We remained home since there was no game at the univesity. Had there been I would have made spiders and other lovely things to give to my friends after they had adorned the T-shirt stand for the evening. And, I would have had a stock of candy to last me into the NEXT millennium...! How was your part of Austin? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 38, "subject": "Bed & Breakfasts", "response_count": 20, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 30, 1999 (21:08)", "body": "There are several in Volcano (that is really the town's name) near the summit of Kilauea Volcano...I shall study for you and present my findings. My fav so far is in Cornwall..."}, {"response": 2, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Sep 30, 1999 (21:36)", "body": "Kilauea Lodge has to be the best one on this side of the Island of Hawaii. Not only does it have the best chef not in Kona or Waimea, but it has all the woodsy atmosphere and cozy warmth you need at that altitude. The evenings are often spent in the clouds at the altitude of the Lodge, so it is romantic and secluded-feeling. Some day I may be lucky enough to go there..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 1999 (08:30)", "body": "we stayed at the Black Dog Inn in Estes Park Colorado... LOVED it! Right at the base of Rocky Mountain National Park, great breakfasts, warm tea all the time..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "mrchips", "date": "Fri, Oct  1, 1999 (21:21)", "body": "This is a really terrific thing. The Hunger Site at the U.N. This is a really cool website. All you do is click a button and somewhere in the world some hungry person gets a meal to eat at no cost to you. The food is paid for by corporate sponsors. All you do is go to the site and click. But, you're only allowed one click per day so spread the word to others. Visit the site and pass the word. http://www.thehungersite.com"}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Oct  2, 1999 (02:03)", "body": "And add it to your favourites list!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (18:19)", "body": "There's a wonderful family B&B in the Northeast Kingdom region of Vermont. Oreo cookie cows wandering along the back 40...a full barn for the kids to hang out in...outdoor heated pool...morning kids' activities...food and herbs straight from their garden...bunk beds...teddy bear pancakes...herbal tea and cookies every afternoon...one of the most beautiful spots on earth to get away from it all."}, {"response": 7, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (16:14)", "body": "Going to Napo-Cha on Friday... a B&B in the Napa Valley... seen a picture but this'll be our first stay there."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (17:56)", "body": "You could visit Harbin Hot Springs. It's in this area."}, {"response": 9, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct  5, 1999 (18:02)", "body": "Take the wine train, Stacey - you'll love it!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct  7, 1999 (11:37)", "body": "we won't be spending too much time in Napa... couldn't guess where we're going after that!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct  7, 1999 (12:17)", "body": "Check out: http://www.harbin.org/"}, {"response": 12, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct  7, 1999 (14:01)", "body": "Please tell me it some polace like Yosemite and not Disneyland..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (15:39)", "body": "Napa Cha was beautiful... so beautiful in fact, we decided to have our wedding in the front yard garden!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (15:48)", "body": "Back from Greece? Or any chance meeting you at FRA on a stop-over?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (03:43)", "body": "STACEY!!!! You married woman, you!! CONGRATULATIONS, girl! I was SO happy to get yer mail! How the heck WAS it??"}, {"response": 16, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (09:59)", "body": "Perfect! The best wedding I've ever been to in fact. Outdoors, late afternoon, sunny and warm... I wore ivory and Brandon wore a suit... and I was barefoot... we wrote and spoke our own vows and everything was just... absolutely perfect! a delightful dinner afterwards with wine and kisses... We had the ideal wedding I believe!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct 27, 1999 (03:06)", "body": "That's great. I'm really happy for you."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (10:08)", "body": "Congratulations and my best wishes to You and Brandon, Stacey! This sounds like a very romantic wedding and I hope your marriage will be the same for You!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (12:59)", "body": "Thank you Thank you!!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (13:00)", "body": "Isabel, are you married? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 39, "subject": "Gambia", "response_count": 30, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct  6, 1999 (14:47)", "body": "Now, just to keep all things Gambian together, I am repost Maggie's Home picture."}, {"response": 2, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Oct  7, 1999 (13:13)", "body": "Thanks Marcia. Let me tell you a little about the picture. This is the rear of the three room mud brick house that we lived in for 9 months. It belongs to a Gambian pastor and we housesat it while he was in Ghana. The picture was taken during the rainy season. In the dry season it looks very different. It has a tin roof and tin ceilings inside, which get VERY hot in the dry season. At one point it reached 43 degrees centigrade inside and all the candles melted. But ... the ceilings do keep the rats out!!! (You just ear them instead) I'll think of more later. Maggie"}, {"response": 3, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct  7, 1999 (13:27)", "body": "That sounds like Hawaii. They still build houses with tin roofs and single walls (pipes are arrayed all over the back of the house on the exterior!) When it rains all conversation ceases for the duration, and the TV is turned up high enough to split eardrums in normal circumstances. Fortunately, we have false ceilings beneath those tin roofs - so they do not get so very hot. We lived in one for our first four years in Hawaii, so I understand what you are saying! (You are quite welcome!)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct  7, 1999 (13:29)", "body": "Ditto about the rats running across the roof...and the cat chasing after...!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (04:40)", "body": "But, Maggie, isn't it fabulous when it rains on that tin roof? And having to put rocks and pumpkins on the roof to keep it from blowing off in a thunderstorm. And the smell of it!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (12:16)", "body": "Yeah! I sometimes put a rainforest modd tape on just to hear heavy rain and recapture it. I have to admit that little house is my dream house. It had its difficulties but we were very happy there."}, {"response": 7, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct  8, 1999 (15:15)", "body": "..then smell of it...Oh yes, Indeed! Wonderful incredible fragrance of steam rising off hot surfaces. The only better smell in this category is the fragrance of steam rising off hot congealed lava...indescribable, but has a hint of celery leaves about it. It is a wonderful sound to lull you to sleep...it blocks out absolutley everything else!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Oct  9, 1999 (11:57)", "body": "I have two memorable memories of tropical rain. The first was in Cameroon when we experienced our first ever tropical rainstorm. Everyone, adults and kids went really wild dashing out into the rain, dncing around. our kids just stood around amazed at all the crazy behaviour, and then there was a gentle tug at my skirt - mum, can we get wet too? The second was in the lane just outside the house in the picture. The lane separated our compund from the nurses compound opposite. on either side of the lane was a steepish bank. During the rains there was a flash flood down the lane to a depth of about 20 inches or more. All the kids in our part of the village came to play, sliding down the grassy bank into the water, just like a water shute. Hannah (10yrs), eager to join in as usual, dashed into the house, put her swimming costume on and then a tie round skirt on top, and dashed out to join in the fun. Within minutes her waist length hair was a mass of mud and grass as she slid and jumped with the others. Esther (by then 13) ever the young lady, stood demurely on the bank in the pelting rain holding a huge golfing umbrella looking like she longed to join in but felt she was too old (although she had put on her swimming togs and skirt). Every few minutes kids would appear out of the water and join Esther under the umbrella only to be drawn back in o the fun. Eventually I went out, gently took the umbrella from her and with a (non too gentle) push sent her flying into the water. Of course, once she was soaked there was no point in coming out again and she gave in and had a whale of a time too."}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct 20, 1999 (06:07)", "body": "I can remember stuff just like that. We used to have umbrellas too. When the rain came, we'd go out with our umbrellas upside down to gather the rain. It's just a different sort of rain from northern continent rain altogether."}, {"response": 10, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Oct 27, 1999 (14:26)", "body": "I can't help but get excited about Africa rain, it's just soooo different!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 27, 1999 (15:35)", "body": "It sounds very much like Hawaiian rain - soft and soothing to the skin and altogether a pleasant sensation. It seldom pelts down - it falls heavily or lightly but always beneficiently."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (09:03)", "body": "What a sensous image, Hawaiin rain."}, {"response": 13, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (14:03)", "body": "MMmmm as it's now heading onto the season of dreary drizzle in Britain I just love reminising. Maybe I'll get the opportunity to try Hawaian rain sometime to make the comparison! Marcia, I've done some more pics. I'll send you a trial one to see if I've got the resolution right."}, {"response": 14, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (15:18)", "body": "Oh, Terry, Hawaiian rain is to be enjoyed, not to run away from. It is lusciously sensual especially if you can share it with someone who feels the same way about it. Warm and soft and gentle...*sigh*...children love to play in it as they never get chilled. Maggie, your maps are enlarged to twice their size so we could read your writing. I enlarged the colour print to twice its original size so we could see it. All are on Spring's hard drive and I shall place them as requested. GAMBIA Map 1 GAMBIA Map 2"}, {"response": 15, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (13:05)", "body": "How many different tribes do you get in that whole Senegal area? And do they speak very different languages, or can they sort of relate to each other like Spanish and Italian and languages like that? And how friendly are the different tribes towards one another?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (13:30)", "body": "Whew! Riette, that's just what I'm working on! I have a listing of 39 languages for Senegal, and 20 for Gambia (which I surveyed in the late 1980s). The languages in Senegal and the Gambia belong to three different main families: Western Atlantic (WA), Mande and Arab each subdvided again into further families. There are different levels of distinction, but these main groupings cannot understand each other at all and languages in the sub grouping have varying degrees of commonality. Even within a sub-group family the differences between languages can be very marked. In these terms Spanish, Italian and French would appear on a language continuum as far as intelligibility is concerned, all being Romance languages which is a sub-group of the Indo-European main group. I think I've got that right - language typology is more my husbands field than mine! 84% of the languages in Senegal are in West Atlantic family, 12% in the Mande family and 2% in the Arab family. In the Gambia the majority are in the Mande family. As an example of communication, in the village I lived in there were five main language groups - Mandinka, Manjako, Bambara, Serer, Wolof. Mandinka and bambara are as unlike as Spanish and Italian, Wolof is completely different and so is Serer as they belong to two other families. To communicate people from different language groups use mandinka to talk to each other. This is all in a small village of 40 compounds (family groups). Howzat for a quick answer!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (13:33)", "body": "Here's some general info on The Gambia for you The Gambia is one of the smallest countries in the world. It lies on the far west of Africa and is surrounded by the Republic of Senegal apart from the sea coast. It forms a narrow strip along the River Gambia about 350 kilometres long and between 24 and 50 kilometres wide. The river Gambia divides the country into two main areas - the North Bank and the South Bank. South of the river there is one tarred road which runs the entire length of the country, but on the north bank there are no tarred roads xcept those running from the ferries north into Senegal. During the rainy season travel on the nroth bank becomes difficult, if not impossible. About 70% of the population live in rural areas and are subsistence farmers. The main cash crops are groundnuts, and almost 60% 0f cropland is under groundnut cultivation. English is the official language and there are about 20 national languages. According to some estimates 75% of the population over the age of 15 are functionally illiterate, although 61% of school age kids are reckoned to be at school. The rate changes dramatically between rural and urban areas, with very low numbers in some areas, and particularly few girls."}, {"response": 18, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (16:16)", "body": "Few girls in some areas...is that due to natural causes or human intervention ??"}, {"response": 19, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (01:37)", "body": "I have always believed that, if people from all around the world should form one huge chain - in the right order - and the first person in the chain says something to the next person in the chain and that is repeated, then each person in the chain will know what is said to them without speaking the previous or the next person's language until the end of the chain is reached. Do you know what I mean? I guess in that part of Africa girls are still expected to play a more domestic role?"}, {"response": 20, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (10:13)", "body": "girls- it's mainly human intervention. can't say much here cos its public. I'll try and remember to email you both with a more private response."}, {"response": 21, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (10:14)", "body": "I'm not sure from my expereince/research so far that I agree with you Riette. I think some languages are so far from their original source that the links won't be there anymore. Might have worked earlier though!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (13:04)", "body": "I wish there was a way of finding out. I'd at least love to see how far one would come."}, {"response": 23, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Oct 30, 1999 (16:20)", "body": "The mind boggles!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Jan 12, 2000 (16:42)", "body": "I found some nice Gambian websites. Try http://grove.ufl.edu/~alyons/ This is the best site - run by an ex-peace corps guy http://www.niica.on.ca/gambia/default.htm A Canadian site about Gambia http://www.africanet.com/africanet/country/gambia/ http://www.gambia.com The official republic of The Gambia site. Has anyone found any others?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Jan 12, 2000 (19:01)", "body": "Not yet, but those are lovely. I will search and add them to this topic. I love sleuthing through the elusive internet in search of information..."}, {"response": 26, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Apr 11, 2000 (15:25)", "body": "got this news today, don't know if anyone I know is involved yet. GAMBIA: Banjul and surroundings calm Gambia's capital, Banjul, and surrounding towns remain calm on Tuesday, a day after students and city hoodlums fought pitched battles with police which resulted in several deaths, Police Public Relations Officer Abdoulie Sanyang told IRIN. \"People are going about their normal business,\" he said. However, he said police were patrolling the streets of Serrekunda, a vast semi-residential neighbourhood and the centre of Monday's demonstrations some 12-15 km southwest of Banjul. Thousands of protestors threw stones, attacked public buildings, burnt cars as well as four police stations. Sanyan and other witnesses said the protest only turned violent when hoodlums joined the demonstration. Exact numbers for people killed and injured are not immediately available. However, news sources put the conservative estimate at between 10 and 12 dead and scores more injured."}, {"response": 27, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Apr 14, 2000 (11:20)", "body": "the latest on the troubles GAMBIA: Banjul and surroundings calm Calm was restored to Gambia's capital, Banjul, and surrounding towns on Tuesday, a day after angry students and city hoodlums fought pitched battles with police which resulted in several deaths, Police Public Relations Officer Abdoulie Sanyang told IRIN. The demonstrators burnt cars and four police stations, and damaged telecommunications as well as other public and private property. They were protesting against an autopsy report on the death of Ebrima Barry, a high school student. He died after allegedly being beaten by firemen in the town of Brikama, about 30 km south of Banjul. The six accused firefighters are being held in remand. Throughout the week police maintained patrols in the streets of Serrekunda, a vast semi-residential neighbourhood and the centre of Monday's demonstrations some 12-15 km southwest of Banjul. The official casualty report, so far, is 12 people dead and 28 hospitalised. Government closes schools The government has responded by ordering the immediate closure of all schools and tertiary educational institutions. State House, the office of the president, condemned what it said was the \"irresponsible and senseless behaviour\" of the demonstrators, led by the Gambia Students Union, and said perpetrators would be held responsible. However, a coalition of five local human rights groups and the Gambia Press Union have condemned both students and government forces for the troubles. In particular, these bodies criticised the shooting of students and a Red Cross volunteer. \"The alleged shooting, killing and maiming of students cannot be justified in any civilised society, especially one that professes to be democratic,\" the coalition said. The government denied its forces used live ammunition."}, {"response": 28, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Sep 23, 2000 (06:45)", "body": "Friday, 1 September, 2000, 12:11 GMT 13:11 UK Gambia gets first green light The lights are on the road linking Gambia's two main cities By Ebraima Sillah in Banjul There was euphoria and jubilation in the Gambia's biggest town of Serrekunda on Tuesday when early morning commuters to Banjul saw for the first time a traffic light system on one of the busiest roads in the country. The traffic light project worth over $30,000 (US) has been provided by Shell Marketing Gambia Limited. The project - the first of its kind in the history of the Gambia comes at a time of increasing road traffic accidents at busy junctions in the country. Shell's installation manager Lang Konteh describes the traffic light project as his company's contribution to the socio-economic development of the country. He said \"as good corporate members of the society, this initiative is in line with our commitment to health, safety and environment\". Traffic policeman The police public relations officer, Inspector Abdoulie Sanyang, said the police welcome Shell's initiative in reducing road accidents. Inspector Sanyang said that with the introduction of the traffic lights on Kairaba Avenue, one of the busiest roads in the Gambia, there will be less demand on the police in directing traffic. He said \"this will help us to concentrate on the prevention of crime in areas where we are needed most\". A police officer who used to direct traffic at the junction where the traffic lights are built remarked: \"This is a relief to some of us because we no longer have to stand under the blazing sun or in the rain to guide motorists\". Excitement Public reaction to the new traffic lights is one of excitement. It is hoped that it will lead to the orderly flow of traffic and minimise the risk of police officers being knocked down by motorists. However because of the high level of illiteracy in the country and the low level of awareness among many motorists about how the traffic facility works, there is public anxiety about whether new traffic lights could in fact be a solution to the Gambia's numerous road accidents. A task force has been set-up to sensitise motorists and the general public about the effective use of the traffic lights."}, {"response": 29, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Sep 23, 2000 (06:49)", "body": "Monday, 18 September, 2000, 02:19 GMT 03:19 UK Malaria vaccine goes on trial UK scientists have developed what could be the first effective vaccine against malaria. The first clinical trials of the vaccine will start on Monday in Africa. If it works, the vaccine will be the best hope yet of defeating a disease which claims more than a million lives a year, and is now threatening to spread towards Europe. The trials will be carried out in the Gambia by scientists from Oxford University. Professor Adrian Hill, from the university's department of medicine, said the vaccine, based on fragments of the malaria parasite's own DNA, was the first to target the disease once it had entered the body's cells. Previous vaccines against the disease, which is responsible for a quarter of all child deaths in Africa, have only been able to attack the parasite before it enters cells. \"Instead of using the malaria parasite itself, inactivated in some way, we are actually using DNA, the genetic material,\" Professor Hill told the BBC. \"We are using a purified preparation of DNA, which is a gene, and that gene makes a tiny part of the malaria parasite when it is used as a vaccine.\" High fever The Oxford team says tests of the vaccine on British volunteers deliberately infected with malaria have already been undertaken. Professor Hill said if the Gambia trials were also a success, the vaccine could become available within five to 10 years. \"We're pretty hopeful that we will see the same in the Gambia and that the vaccine will be effective at preventing malaria,\" he said. Trials co-ordinator Dr Vasee Moorthy said: \"Unless a vaccine is developed, cases of malaria and deaths from malaria will continue to increase over the next few years and will spread to parts of southern Europe and America, from which it had been eradicated.\" Malaria kills up to two million people each year. Over 90% of deaths are in Africa and two-thirds are among children. The mosquito-borne disease causes high fever, muscle stiffness and sweating. It is the most prevalent tropical disease in the world. More than 40% of the world's population live in countries where malaria is endemic. Drugs are used to treat victims but climate change, social instability and increased resistance to pesticides and treatments have hampered the battle against the illness."}, {"response": 30, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Sep 23, 2000 (06:51)", "body": "The above article is really great news. Both my girls and I have had malaria ..it is not pleasant and kills ...in the village we lived in, in one week 10 older children died ...several of these were in my sewing class and used to sit on my verandah to sit and talk. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 4, "subject": "Poland", "response_count": 20, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "MEgabiT", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (03:00)", "body": "Hello everyone"}, {"response": 2, "author": "MEgabiT", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (03:02)", "body": "I'll be pleased to answer all your questions on Poland. I must say I'm very pleased by Terry's hospitability - he not only invited me to join this Conference Center, but even created a section on Poland!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "mqube", "date": "Mon, Dec 16, 1996 (22:21)", "body": "Hi Peter, good to see you here. Where are you located in Poland?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "MEgabiT", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (09:43)", "body": "Hi Mike I'm located in Rzeszow, some 150 km (or 100 miles) east off Cracow. Generally speaking, in the Sout-East part of Poland. The population is ca. 150,000. Main industry: airborne (enginees and gear-boxes for Russian-originated, but now Polish, helicopters) and household appliances. A very good spot to new business opportunities (100 km from the Ukrainian boarder). Not far away from the Polish mountains (skiing!)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 17, 1996 (18:33)", "body": "What is it like in the Ukraine? Do you visit there much?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "MEgabiT", "date": "Wed, Dec 18, 1996 (03:00)", "body": "Well, the people are rather poor in the Ukraine, but there is a number of companies who heritaged enormous resources after the Soviet and arm-production era. Therefore there are many people in my region of Poand who plan on common business with Ukraine. Any Western participation welcome!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "osceola", "date": "Thu, Oct  1, 1998 (15:18)", "body": "This topic hasn't been used in so long I doubt anyone will respond, but my maternal grandparents came from a place not far from Peter. A town called Liminova (sp?). They migrated to the US in 1909. Funny story about how my grandmother came to the US. Back in Liminova, the postman one day delivered a letter to the wrong house. My grandmother, then 20, was living there, but the letter was supposed to go to somewhere else. Regardless, she opened the letter and found a ticket to America. So she took it and moved away and never looked back. Back in the 1970s, one of my cousins, who made a pile of money in the pizza business, took a tour of Poland and took his mother (my aunt) and asked grandma if she wanted to go. She declined the offer, perhaps because she was afraid the authorities would find out the circumstances under which she left and make her stay."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct  1, 1998 (23:44)", "body": "That's a great story about finding the ticket that way, George!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct  2, 1998 (05:05)", "body": "That is incredible, George. Why was she so desperate to come to America? Or did she just have that thing in her that said, 'YES, GO, BE A DEVIL!'?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "osceola", "date": "Fri, Oct  2, 1998 (11:36)", "body": "Not sure, Riette. I don't think desperate is the right word. Maybe there was just nothing happening in her hometown, and she had a chance to go. Just go. By the way, she left during the peak years of eastern European immigration to the US, and Chicago was the place most Poles drifted to."}, {"response": 11, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Oct  4, 1998 (01:49)", "body": "And thank God she did. Imagine if she had had to stay through World War II with the Nazis turning Poland into such a hell hole. Even if she weren't Jewish, just to witness everything that went on, would have been unbearable. I'm currently reading a book about the Holocaust, and the whole of Europe must have been a hell on earth to live in."}, {"response": 12, "author": "osceola", "date": "Mon, Oct  5, 1998 (13:15)", "body": "What disturbs me most about the Nazi occupation was how many people cooperated with them. That's why I really don't want to know what my distant relatives in Poland did back then. Honestly, I don't want to know."}, {"response": 13, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Oct  6, 1998 (10:55)", "body": "Well, alot of Poles did betray the Jews, but I think they were just under such enormous pressure, and they had so much to lose. Of course there were many who took pleasure in doing so, but for the most part I can sympathize, because, how can one know how one will react when you're facing a choice between betraying innocent people, and living with a bad conscience, or protecting them, thereby running the rist of having your whole family tortured and killed in front of you. The part that I find hard to un erstand, is how such evil could not only be spread so quickly, but PREVAIL for so long. Of course the SS did consist of convicts and misfits, deliberately chosen to be counted on for brutality and perversion. I am reading a book about the holocaust at the moment - at school we learned nothing of that part of history, since all the leaders of apartheid in South Africa and South West Africa studied in Nazi Germany, and did not think it wise to teach children about these horrors, since that was more or less exactly what they had in mind for black people. And so I have a lot of catching up to o. And what a horrible truth, how depressing. But I think it important that people should know every bit of this truth so that such atrocities will never ever repeat themselves again."}, {"response": 14, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Oct  7, 1998 (17:39)", "body": "Got any of that wanderlust in your blood, George?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "osceola", "date": "Thu, Oct  8, 1998 (13:31)", "body": "Wanderlust? Well, unlike grandma, I haven't gotten any free tickets anywhere (yet). Nor do I live in a depressing little town. In fact, I've liked everywhere I've lived, with the exception of Cape Coral, Fla., where I spent my teen years. That's the only place that compelled me to get out as soon as I could. As far as wanderlust goes, 9 years ago I decided to leave Tallahassee, where I was reasonably happy and content, to pack up and move to Austin. I'm happy where I'm at now (geographically, if not psyci ally and emotionally)."}, {"response": 16, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct  8, 1998 (14:58)", "body": "ride your bike up to Mt. Bonell and toss your troubles off into the river! or... beter yet... ride your bike up to Colorado and toss 'em off a much higherhill (like Mt. Evans at 14,000+ feet) then they'll be farther away!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "osceola", "date": "Thu, Oct  8, 1998 (15:26)", "body": "Mt. Bonnell? They ticket people for that now."}, {"response": 18, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct  8, 1998 (17:40)", "body": "I suppose then you could dig a hole and bury them then."}, {"response": 19, "author": "osceola", "date": "Thu, Oct  8, 1998 (17:45)", "body": "Might pollute the aquifer."}, {"response": 20, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Oct  9, 1998 (10:40)", "body": "dump them in a bathtub and wash em down the drain? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 40, "subject": "Greece (Griechenland)", "response_count": 138, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Tue, Oct 19, 1999 (15:08)", "body": "never been there, sorry!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Tue, Oct 19, 1999 (15:10)", "body": "but I love the music of mikis theodorakis! and globe artichokes!!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Tue, Oct 19, 1999 (15:15)", "body": "...just put the music from the film \"Zorba the Greek\" on the player... Thanks for reminding me Alexander! *smile*"}, {"response": 4, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Tue, Oct 19, 1999 (15:21)", "body": "Rembetiko makes me sad and what does \"fernweh\" mean in english? The opposite of homesick?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Oct 19, 1999 (18:02)", "body": "Telesickness? Distance-illness? Riette, help!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct 19, 1999 (20:19)", "body": "Are you sure you don't just like smashing dinner plates? (Really not a rock group like smashing pumpkins, but a lot less messy!)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Oct 20, 1999 (07:09)", "body": "'Fernweh' is wanderlust, istn't it? And HA-HA, Marcia! I like both!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, Oct 20, 1999 (12:09)", "body": "\"Wanderlust\" - what a strange word! Never heard it - sounds like a pre-20th-century germanism. I know Reiselust, but Fernweh was more the longing-flavor. Longing to be somewhere else, going places... It's not like \"enjoying to be on the road\", it's \"wishing one could get on the road\". Like me and my boat... Actually, the description as opposite of homesickness is very good. And I suffer from it often."}, {"response": 9, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Oct 20, 1999 (23:18)", "body": "Not me. No wanderlust in my blood."}, {"response": 10, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 20, 1999 (23:41)", "body": "Call it the anthesis of Cabin Fever or whatever, I think we all have it somewhere deep down. Curiosity about what lies beyond that far mountain...and all that! My eldest sister had it so severely we never heard from her except the odd postcard from some obscure corner of the world."}, {"response": 11, "author": "Isabel", "date": "Thu, Oct 21, 1999 (13:35)", "body": "I would love to be somewhere else, now. Just fleeing from work, somewhere warm and sunny.....Drinking red wine, listening to wonderful music... I want to get outa here!!!!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 21, 1999 (14:32)", "body": "I AM fleeing from work tomorrow. To a little country hotel in the mountains until Sunday. I read about a 750m long slide near this place (Kanderstegg), and the girls thoroughly agree that we MUST go try it out - you know, to see if it works and all. I CAN HARDLY WAIT!!!!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct 21, 1999 (15:12)", "body": "Nothing like an educational field trip to relax the mind and body. I can hear the screams as you plummet earthward on your slippery way down...enjoy!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Oct 24, 1999 (14:12)", "body": "It was SO COOL!!! The sweetest hotel with bunkbeds for the kids and 4 course meals, and there was a F\ufffdhn, so it was warm and sunny, and we went on the slide until the money was all gone. And, wow, it was so BEAUTIFUL going up the mountain in a chair lift! The surrounding mountain tops were all snowy and everything was quiet and peaceful, except for the kids singing loudly on the way: 'Twinkle twinkle little star how I wonder what you are up above the clouds so high, like a DINO in the sky...' I always love that bit!!!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct 24, 1999 (15:41)", "body": "Like a DINO in the sky?!!! *lol* Kids are so inventive they did not notice the difference. Perhaps in the zodiac of the future they will put one there. I am glad you had such a great time. I am a huge fan of slides - always have been, in fact...!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (16:49)", "body": "Greece was beautiful! Of course we only stayed within the Cycladic Islands but... One full day in Athina to take in the grandeur of the Acropolis and the Botanical Gardens (that weren't SO bontanical but FULL of kitties!) and then a plane to Santorini (Thira). We stayed just outside the town of Thira and gave ourselves a ten minute walk to get into town each day. Everything is the whitest of white stucco and the sea is translucent azure... The water was cool and the days were warm. Food and music were wonderful and we really only spent time enjoying each other's company and the wonder of our happy and fortunate existance... together. More more more to tell, different islands, different beaches... but I am trying diligently to catch up at work... pictures will certainly follow but we only arrived home at 1am this morning..."}, {"response": 17, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (16:52)", "body": "Ah, this answers my question in B&B. Congratulations to you and Mr. B! And welcome back home!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (17:04)", "body": "Thank you and thank you! And, based on the travel record for the year thus far... we'll be back in Germany within the next year! This time we'll make it a formal date!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (17:09)", "body": "Or maybe better that time, I guess. This time I wasn't there, no? (confused as always)"}, {"response": 20, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (17:11)", "body": "OOOOoooh! A *D A T E* ! Whew! With me?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (17:12)", "body": "But, ew! You'll bring that, that - other guy along, no?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (17:14)", "body": "Guess that's what you going off and marrying gets us..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Oct 25, 1999 (17:15)", "body": ";=}"}, {"response": 24, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (04:46)", "body": "Stacey, don't you DARE come to Germany without seeing me! Fly via Z\ufffdrich or something, okay??"}, {"response": 25, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (11:01)", "body": "of course we will... I've already informed my husband (!!) that a visit to you is of utmost importance next time we're anywhere near Europe! BTW... we'll probably be in Nice, France next August (business for him of course...)"}, {"response": 26, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Oct 26, 1999 (20:37)", "body": "And we're having an IRL in July out West, woo-hoo!! Congratulations, Mrs. Tinianov!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (10:05)", "body": "Stacey, let us know if Ree Ree is all she is cracked up to be, or is beyond our wildest expectations, ok?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (14:01)", "body": "Bleugh!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (14:01)", "body": "Well I don't think we'll be trying those things with each other Paul! *grin*"}, {"response": 30, "author": "riette", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (14:02)", "body": "Though I pretty good at doing 'cracked up'!!! ha-ha!"}, {"response": 31, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (02:49)", "body": "Anyone still here? I went to Greece for three weeks with my parents and brother; a real family vacation! We had some interesting moments, as can be expected, but it was a fantastic trip overall! We spent a few days in Athens, touring the Acropolis, and wandering around Plaka and Monastiraki. We then took a 4-day land tour of Classical Greece, including Corinth, Epidavros, Mycenae, Olympia, and Delphi. (I think we were a bit \"ruin-ed out\" by the end of that tour, but it was amazing to see all the places I'd read about.) Then we took a 7-day cruise around the islands, including Santorini, Crete, Rhodos, Patmos, and Mykonos, as well as Ephesus and Istanbul (Constantinople) in Turkey. We then spent 3 days on the island of Mitilini (Lesvos) looking up some relatives and the places our family came from. We finally ended up in Glyfada, enjoying the night clubs. (But they don't throw dishes anymore...just flowers!)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sun, Mar 12, 2000 (04:42)", "body": "Great! Sound like something I could use right now! Hey, \"Brown\" don't sound like one of the old Lesvos-names to me...?"}, {"response": 33, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Tue, Mar 14, 2000 (01:44)", "body": "My friends sometimes call me \"Brownopoulos\"... ;-) Blame it on my grandfather. He changed the name from Papaharalampus to Brown when he got his citizenship papers. (It would have been too easy to shorten it to Papas, like everyone else, I guess!) The story I heard was that he replaced a baker named Brown, and everyone just started calling him \"Brown the Baker\"."}, {"response": 34, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Mar 15, 2000 (17:37)", "body": "I didn't know that! I am grateful for little things - like the name Brown!"}, {"response": 35, "author": "CherylB", "date": "Wed, Mar 15, 2000 (17:53)", "body": "My maternal grandfather was born on Cyprus but considered himself Greek. Grandad's family name was Karageanes. My mother is named Cleopatra, no kidding. I'm Cleopatra's daughter, more precisely I'm the daughter of a Cleopatra. Actually it is a Greek name meaning \"fame of her father\". Mom, a woman of little fame except to us who know and love her, goes by Cleo, which simply means \"fame\"."}, {"response": 36, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Mar 15, 2000 (18:10)", "body": "The Ptolemy line persists on Spring. I had no idea... but I AM honored!"}, {"response": 37, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Mar 15, 2000 (22:41)", "body": "That sounds like an awesome vacation, Ginny!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Fri, Mar 17, 2000 (12:48)", "body": "A name like Brown is easy to spell, but it's such a BORING name. My mother tried to get my father to take her name (Pavlis) when they got married, but he wouldn't hear of it. At least it would have been a Greek name! The funny thing is that most of the family spells it \"Pavlis\", except for one branch which spells it \"Pavles\" (one brother decided to be different, I guess). Great names, Cheryl! There are many ethnic Greeks in Cyprus. (Not that I want to bring up the Cyprus issue!!) I know another Greek woman named Cleo, but I don't know if it's short for Cleopatra or not. Interesting...I didn't know that Cleo means fame. I wish I had learned more Greek when my grandmother was trying to teach me! As far as I know, all my family was from the islands of Lesvos and Limnos. Three of my grandparents were from Lesvos (2 from Mitilini and 1 from Ayiassos). My maternal grandmother (the one I was named after) was born in the US, but I think her mother was from Limnos and her father was from Lesvos. Yes, my trip to Greece was awesome! We were pretty tired by the end of it, but we were really glad we went. It was amazing to finally see the places my grandparents always talked about, and going as a family made it even more special. For anyone interested in archaeology, the land tour of Classical Greece is a must. The cruise around the islands was wonderful, especially after being on a bus for 4 days; we were thrilled to not have to pack our bags every night."}, {"response": 39, "author": "vibrown", "date": "Fri, Mar 17, 2000 (23:16)", "body": "Here are some Greek links I've found. Enjoy! http://www.gogreece.com , Internet Guide to Greece http://www.ellada.com , Ellada on the Web http://www.greekiosk.com , Greek Kiosk - News and more http://www.forthnet.gr/hellas/hellas.html , Database of Greek Web Resources http://www.vacation.forthnet.gr , Tourist Guide of Greece http://www.gaepis.org , Hellenic Public Radio http://www.greekembassy.org , Greek Embassy http://www.greece.org , Hellenic Electronic Center http://www.hri.org , Hellenic Resources Network http://www.ahepa.org , American Hellenic Educational Progressive Association http://www.glavx.org , Vryonis Center for the Study of Hellenism http://www.hol.gr/greece , Hellas On Line - Greek Pages http://www.princeton.edu./~ellhnes , Hellenic Association of Princeton http://www.goarch.org , Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America http://www.ocf.org , Orthodox Christian Foundation http://www.oca.org , Orthodox Church in America http://www.voithia.org , Voithia (GOAL) http://www.edu.physics.uch.gr/songs , Greek Songs Database http://virtual-greece.com/midi/index.htm , Greek midi songs http://members.xoom.com/GreekMusic/index1.html , Greek Music Page"}, {"response": 40, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Aug 24, 2001 (22:38)", "body": "Time to get this topic going again. Ginny-the-Greek from Boston seems to have gone missing but I will get her back here. Wait till I tell her I have someone who REALLY can translate Greek to English. Giannis, this is for you.... another place on Spring to waste your precious time! Meanwhile, with his daughter's upcoming wedding so soon, I checked into Greek libations: Retsina Retsina is a 100% Greek product. It is not produced in any other part of the world except Greece. Made for more than 3,000 years, this traditional Greek wine has been resinated treated with pine-tree resin. The resin gives the wine a distinctively sappy taste. Today, Retsina is produced in almost all parts of Greece, but the best is considered that of Attica. Retsinas are either white or rose and should be served cold. Retsina is ideal as an accompaniment for all types of Greek cuisine. Like most Greek beverages, it is undeniably at its best when combined with Greek foods, especially the savory mezedes served as appetizers. Some people, mostly non-Greeks, say that Retsina, is an acquired taste. Some other, say that Retsina has a flavor as \"sappy and turpentine like\". We challenge you to try it! Because if you don't, you will never know what you are missing! The best is to try it in its native environment. Maybe then, you may well respond to it like a true Greek! from... http://www.greekproducts.com/greekproducts/retsina/"}, {"response": 41, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Sep  1, 2001 (16:42)", "body": "I noted that above there are great links Ginny posted a while back. Meanwhile, I have been told there are other celebratory things to drink other that retsina. (My Greek connections are VERY good and even more charming...*sigh*) I am off to do some sampling and checking. Will post when I can see straight again! /\\\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd"}, {"response": 42, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 17, 2001 (22:40)", "body": "More goodies about Greece from the estimable John of Volos. To paraphrase him: * In Greece they are many special restaurants that serve OUZO (they are named OUZERI) or TSIPOURO (they are named TSIPOURADIKO). With OUZO or TSIPOURO serve sea delicacies. Also, they are popular restaurants with good Greek comestibles, wine and popular Greek music (live or not). We have two main types of wine. RETSINA that is white wine with resin of pine, and KOKKINELI, that is red wine. They are only a few expensive Babylonian restaurants. I am trying to find out why Babylonian restaurants are so expensive. More about Tsipouro in next post."}, {"response": 43, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 17, 2001 (22:46)", "body": "I suddenly have a great hunger for anything wrapped in grape leaves. I wonder how much cuisine I can find to go with the wines... Tsipouro The 'spirit' of the vineyard Every autumn after grape harvest, various wine festivities begin throughout Greece. A few days later, in Thessaly, Epirus, Macedonia and on the island of Crete the \"Celebration of Tsipouro\" takes place. Tsipouro is a strong distilled spirit containing approximately 37 per cent alcohol per volume and is produced from the must-residue of the wine-press. The name tsipouro is used throughout the country, except for Crete, where the same spirit with a stronger aroma is known as tsikoudia. In other areas of Greece, the Oriental name \"raki\" is used, from which the term \"rakizio\" is derived, used to refer to the drink's distillation process, which usually turns into a huge celebration among family, friends and neighbours. As with many gastronomic delicacies, most alcoholic beverages have their roots in poverty. Tsipouro and tsikoudia are produced in poor viniculture soil. Therefore, every year after the vines are pruned, the vineyard provides wood for the fireplace, grape leaves for cooking (the famous Greek \"dolmades\"), grapes as a fruit or as a pastry and, of course, wine. Some of the grape must is used to make molasses, which when combined with flour become must-jelly, must-rolls as well as other well-known Greek pastries. When must is made from grapes, the seeds, stems and grape-peels aren't thrown away, rather they are distilled to produce tsipouro and tsikoudia, spirits consumed for centuries in this part of the Mediterranean. This production process, in which nothing is wasted and whatever is reaped is used in the most productive manner, was abandoned for a while. In fact, many of today's food products require long processing methods which often create waste materials. The EU, however, is attempting to preserve traditional food and beverage production methods, which combine human ingenuity and a harmonious relationship with nature, by promoting products such as tsipouro and tsikoudia as well as by protecting the name of such products' origins. Much more and historic goodies... http://www.ana.gr/hermes/1998/jun/food.htm"}, {"response": 44, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 17, 2001 (22:48)", "body": "Dolmades (Stuffed Grape Leaves) Each Middle Eastern country has its own variety of grape leaf filling. This is a Greek recipe. Ingredients 1 onion, minced 1 tablespoon olive oil, divided 2 cups short grain brown rice, cooked 2 tablespoons tomato paste 1/2 cup raw sunflower seeds 1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon 2 tablespoons lemon juice 1/2 teaspoon sea salt pinch black pepper 1 jar (8 oz.) grape leaves, drained Method 1.In a small saucepan, saut\ufffd the onion in half the olive oil, then mix it with the remaining ingredients, except the grape leaves. 2.Preheat the oven to 375 degrees. 3.Spread out 10 grape leaves, with the darker side facing down. Spoon a teaspoon of filling onto each leaf. 4.Fold the bottom up, the sides toward the middle, then roll toward the top. Place them on an oiled pan, then brush the tops with the remaining oil. 5.Bake, covered, for 35-40 minutes. Makes 20-30. http://www.mightynatural.com/recipes/entrees/dolmades.htm"}, {"response": 45, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Sep 17, 2001 (22:50)", "body": "Cinnamon without sugar is a totally new idea to me. I think I need a real Greek to run these recipes past before I post them. This one sounds like a good vegetarian one. Somehow I thought it had lamb and mint in it. After a wedding and after the world gets back into order, I'll check with John and Ginny to see if any of these sound right."}, {"response": 46, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep 18, 2001 (01:09)", "body": "THE GREEK PEOPLE AND GOVERMENT UNINAMOUSLY SUPPORT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AT THIS MOMENT OF TRAGEDY (Cultural, Scientific & General News Category) September 2001: The Greek government and the Greek people joined into a three minutes of silence on Friday September 14 2001 in memory of the victims of the terrorist attacks in the US. The Greek flag was lowered as a symbolic and important act of deep sorrow. All other European Union countries joined in this act of support to the American people. 1. THE GREEK COUNTERATTACK FOR THE FETA CHEESE (Greek Products News Category) August 2001: The acceptance by the European Union's legislative framework that feta cheese is a genuine Greek product it is expected to be a reality in the next months. As it is known, feta cheese has lost its position among the Name of Origin Products (Appellation d' Origine) during 1998 with a decision of the European Court, following a common recommendation by Germany and Denmark that produced feta like products. The statement of the Greek proposal for the acceptance by the European Union that feta cheese is a genuine Greek product it is expected to be positive from the competent commission of the European Union, due to support given to Greece by other Member States who really produce their genuine products, like France for example. 2. THE 4TH PANHELLENIC EXPOSITION OF BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS-THE EXPANSION OF BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTS IN GREEK MARKET (Greek Products News Category) August 2001: From 4 to 7 October 2001 will take place in Athens, Greece the 4th Pan Hellenic Exposition of Biological Products, which will be organized by DIO, one of the Greek organizations of control and certification of biological products. In the exposition will participate bio-cultivators from the whole country, importers and merchants of biological products, healthy food/biological shop owners, environmental organizations, and mediums from the biological agriculture. The exposition aims to promote more intense the biological products expansion in the Greek market. It is worth to point out that according to the data given by all the Greek organizations of control and certification of biological products, the consumption of biological products in Greece has doubled in comparison with that of 1999. This was the factual evidence that Greek consumers summed the biological products not by price criteria but by quality ones. 3. #53 INTERNATIONAL BOOK EXPOSITION IN FRANKFURT-GREECE, THE HONOURED COUNTRY. (Cultural, Scientific & General News Category) August 2001: One of the largest book expositions in world level is the International Book Exposition of Frankfurt, Germany. In this 53rd exposition, 10-15 October 2001, Greece is the honoured country. 55 Greek representatives including novelists, poets, and authors will participate in order to present the different aspects of the Modern Greek literature in Frankfurt's exposition. Despite the fact that some Modern Greek literature figures are widely known outside Greece, it is real that the majority of the rest is relative unknown outside the country, due to the stereotype created by the huge and immortal work of ancient Greek literature. The immortal ancient Greek spirit entered at all in universal mind and for that reason, the Modern Greek literature was really depreciated, a fact really not fair because the Modern Greek literature figures have to offer valuable things to reader. The participation of the Modern Greek literature figures aims to overbalance this situation and! to promote the Modern Greek book in the world market. In exposition's context is worth to point out that the German organizers are intended to present a display dedicated to the Greek resistance against Germans during the World War II, all this within the anniversary of Germany's unification, that is the 8th October! 4. A NEW PANEUROPEAN SYSTEM FOR THE MARKING OF FOOD PRODUCTS (Agricultural, Environmental & Health News Category) September 2001: Safe and sustainable from the economic point of view methods for the production of the vegetative and vital products are promoted by the European Union through its Common Agricultural Policy. At the same time, European Union is aiming at the change of the whole system of food products marking; in order the consumer exactly know what to buy and to have the choice opportunity. Those plans were discussed in a round table about food product safety hold in Athens, Greece during September 2001. The participants of this round table were the Greek media and public authorities from the agriculture and commerce sectors and the two relevant (Agriculture and Commerce) European Union's Commissioners. 5. ATHENS 2004 OLYMPICS-PRODUCTS IN THE U.S. MARKET (Cultural, Scientific & General News Category) September 2001: \ufffdn important agreement for licensed merchandise ATHENS 2004, was reached in New York between the ATHENS 2004 Organizing Committee for the Olympic Games and the United States Olympic Committee. This agreement is of great impo"}, {"response": 47, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Sep 18, 2001 (22:07)", "body": "LOL!! I guess \"Arcadia\" is not subject to appellation d'origine?!"}, {"response": 48, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Oct  8, 2001 (22:21)", "body": "Probably not! I will post more things about Greek edibles. Apparently there are multitudinous tavernas with delicious snacks and libations overlooking the sea. I wish with all my heart I could see it!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Oct 15, 2001 (18:40)", "body": "1. THE INTERNATIONAL FESTIVAL OF ART AND TECHNOLOGY 'MEDIATERRA'. (Cultural, Scientific & General News) September 2001: The 4th International Festival of Art and Technology 'MEDIATERRA', held under the auspices of the Greek Culture Ministry, was presented by the Culture Minister Mr. Venizelos in Athens, Greece during September 2001. The Minister said that as of this year the festival is incorporated in the programmes of the Cultural Olympics and will be one of its main activities until the Olympic year of 2004. The current festival is based on the idea of an 'electronic micro-museum'. The 'micro-museum' will travel to Sofia and Belgrade and conclude in Frankfurt at the 53rd International Book Exposition, where Greece is the honoured country. 2. AN INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION FOR THE MUSEUM OF THE 'STONY FOREST' OF LESVOS. (Agricultural, Environmental & Health News) September 2001: An excellent occasion for wider publicity for the world famous Stony Forest of Lesvos, a real natural wonder, was the victory of the Museum of Physical History of the Stony Forest in a Pan European environmental contest. The Museum of Physical History of the Stony Forest of Lesvos was the prize-winner in the European Contest Euro site 2001. In the Euro site 2001 contest participated institutions and representatives from the protected areas of Europe. The Director of the Museum, Mr. Zouros received by the Minister for the Environment and Regional Development of Scotland, Mrs. Branklin the prize and the prize money of the 2,000-EURO in a special ceremony, which took place in the Royal Castle of Edinburgh in Scotland. The ceremony attended representatives from the European Commission as well as representatives of Europe's protected areas. 3. A GREEK TV CHANNEL FOR THE AGRICULTURE IS BORN. (Agricultural, Environmental & Health News) September 2001: A satellite digital TV channel for the Greek Agriculture is born. The Greek Minister announced the operation of the new TV channel on a special ceremony, which took place in Athens, Greece during September 2001. The name of the TV channel is '4 Epohes' (4 Seasons). It will have an informative character about agricultural issues from Greece and the world. The channel will start broadcasting in the Spring of 2002. 4. THE FIRST HELLENIC TRADE AND CULTURAL FAIR, 2001. greekproducts.com in the US. October 2001: In the 5th and 6th of November 2001 will take place in Chicago, Illinois the first Hellenic Trade and Cultural Fair, 2001, a Business to Business programme between Greece and the US. The fair is co-organized by the World Trade Center in Chicago (WTCC), the Exporters' Association of Northern Greece (SEVE), the Hellenic-American Chamber of Commerce and the Hellenic Centre for Investment (ELKE), under the shield of the World Council of Hellenes Abroad (SAE). The fair has one primary goal, to find business partners in the United States for Greek companies. For that reason are going to be organized Business to Business components which will offer an unprecedented opportunity for Greek companies to form profitable alliances in the US. The Business to Business Matchmaking Meetings will introduce Greek companies to the most serious and interested business partners in the United States. Potential business partners are going to be carefully screened by the World Trade ! Centre of Chicago to ensure that Greek companies meet with U.S. companies that share interests, goals and commercial objectives, whether they be import, export, joint venture, distribution, or research and development. The primary sectors that organizers are focusing on include Food and Beverage, Clothing and Textile, Information Technology and Communications, Building Materials, and Tourism. greekproducts.com, is the only Internet oriented commercial company of Greece that will participate in the fair. \ufffdf you represent a company which is interested in arranging a Business meeting with any of the 72 Greek companies paricipating in the event you may get more information and register at: http://www.wtcc.org/hellenes.html 5. AN IMPORTANT CERTIFICATE FOR TSANTALIS WINERY. (Greek Products News) October 2001: An important certificate for the application of a system of integrated control and management for the production of viniferous grapes was given to Tsantalis winery by the Greek Ministry for the Agriculture. According to this certification, Tsantalis winery produces quality wines coming from the best grape varieties which are cultivated taking into account all environmental friendly methods. 6. A SPECTACULAR GREEK-CHINESE PERFORMANCE. (Cultural, Scientific & General News) October 2001: Attracting a large turnout of audience, a spectacular performance titled 'Bravo China and Greece' was successfully staged in the Herodus Atticus Theater, a well-known ancient theater just below Acropolis, in Athens, Greece during October 2001. 'Bravo China and Greece' was billed as a celebration for Greece and China, both of which have had brilliant ancie"}, {"response": 50, "author": "tsatsvol", "date": "Tue, Oct 16, 2001 (14:20)", "body": "Hi from Greece. I am the John from Volos. My full name is John Tsatsaragos and I live in the area of Volos \ufffd in Central East Greece. My first name in the Greek language is Giannis (\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd) or Ioannis (\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd). I will be happy to discuss with you about real Greece or about anything that I know and you are interested. I have not enough free time this period but I will try to be here as it is possible to me. Marcia thanks for the resurgence of this topic. Warm greetings from Greece John"}, {"response": 51, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct 16, 2001 (15:18)", "body": "*Sigh* There is so much lovely about Greece. I think it is mre like Paradise than Hawaii is. You even have better rocks! Beaches to die for, and archaeology!!! I think one day I need to see Greece with my own eyes. Thanks for coming here, John. I am sure there are those who are curious or wish to tell tales of adventure in your home country. I also have a Greek flag gif. I borrowed it from your website!! When is your national holiday??? And, what do you call it in English? *HUGS*"}, {"response": 52, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct 16, 2001 (22:42)", "body": "I posted a lot about Greek marble on GEO 21. You have every possible color - the 4th largest suppier of fine marble in the world. How beautiful your rocks must be compared with mine. Ours come in any color you want - as long as you want black. I am trying to imagine pink marble. It sounds lovely!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct 21, 2001 (16:43)", "body": "Mythology theme park by 2006 http://www.ekathimerini.com/news/content.asp?aid=104428 A theme park drawing its inspiration from Ancient Greek mythology will be built in the area of Anavyssos, south of Athens, by 2006 and is expected to attract up to 1.2 million visitors per year. Preliminary plans for the 80-billion-drachma (235-million-euro) project have already been drawn. Besides the theme park, they include two hotels, an \"environmental education park\" that will include a botanical garden and an open-air natural history museum, as well as the development of athletic facilities by Anavyssos's beach. The whole project is situated on a 167-hectare area. The salt pans covering part of the area will be turned into a lagoon. Fuji Bank, the financial advisor of Hellenic Tourist Properties (ETA), a subsidiary of the state Greek National Tourism Organization, will study the preliminary plans and draw up a final investment plan. The call for bids to build the theme park will be published on November 30. The bulk of the investment will be provided by private capital. ETA will be a partner. Most of the park, plus the two hotels, is scheduled to be completed by 2004, the year of the Athens Olympics."}, {"response": 54, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct 21, 2001 (16:47)", "body": "*Sigh* I rather hoped they would not do that to Greece. I note Fuji Bank has underwritten the project. It's interesting to note in a world economy which seems intent on downsizing and centralizing things and laying off people. Perhaps this is a good thing for Greece's economy - especially if they employ local people. In Hawaii, they often bring in their own people to run things."}, {"response": 55, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Oct 21, 2001 (16:52)", "body": "Kathimerini edition is displayed in Strasbourg Good news travels fast, especially at times like these when fear can lurk in a simple postal envelope. We opened up a roll marked \"Sender: Museum of Greek Children's Art, Kodrou 9, Plaka.\" Instead of white powder, out came sun rays, rainbows, striped lambs, a speechless mermaid, colors, and shapes, all the product of children's imaginations, like a much-needed smile of optimism. These were children's paintings from competitions held throughout Greece for primary school children, that have been selected by a committee of celebrities and will be used in exhibitions on nature, and the child's life or family. This year's theme was \"Earth and Fire, Air and Water\" and the children created their own happy world from them. Their authentic material was like an injection of optimism in last Sunday's edition of Kathimerini, where it appeared under the heading: \"Children's paintings: An antidote to terror.\" \"I tremble,\" a teacher told a child's mother, \"to think of the day when we set 'airplanes' or 'towers' as subjects, and what we will see painted by children who were faced with these images of horror.\" But the little girl with the striped lamb is keeping watch on her world where the windows are not on television but darns from her grandfather's socks. The mermaid has a boat in the background, not an aircraft carrier, at least for the moment. We heard from Strasbourg, where the Exhibition of Children's Paintings is on display in the Aubette Room in the main square, from the Museum of Greek Children's Art and from the press office of the Council of Europe that the page from Sunday's paper has become a poster dominating the entrance to the exhibition, and has appeared in reports in other newspapers. HELBI"}, {"response": 56, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (00:39)", "body": "http://www.emulateme.com/content/greece.htm Background: Greece achieved its independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1829. During the second half of the 19th century and the first half of the 20th century, it gradually added neighboring islands and territories with Greek-speaking populations. Following the defeat of communist rebels in 1949, Greece joined NATO in 1952. A military dictatorship, which in 1967 had suspended many political liberties and forced the king to flee the country, was itself overthrown seven years later. Democratic elections in 1974 abolished the monarchy and created a parliamentary republic; Greece joined the EU in 1981. Geography [Top of Page] Location: Southern Europe, bordering the Aegean Sea, Ionian Sea, and the Mediterranean Sea, between Albania and Turkey Geographic coordinates: 39 00 N, 22 00 E Map references: Europe Area: total: 131,940 sq km land: 130,800 sq km water: 1,140 sq km Area - comparative: slightly smaller than Alabama Land boundaries: total: 1,210 km border countries: Albania 282 km, Bulgaria 494 km, Turkey 206 km, The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia 228 km Coastline: 13,676 km Maritime claims: continental shelf: 200-m depth or to the depth of exploitation territorial sea: 6 nm Climate: temperate; mild, wet winters; hot, dry summers Terrain: mostly mountains with ranges extending into the sea as peninsulas or chains of islands Elevation extremes: lowest point: Mediterranean Sea 0 m highest point: Mount Olympus 2,917 m Natural resources: bauxite, lignite, magnesite, petroleum, marble, hydropower Land use: arable land: 19% permanent crops: 8% permanent pastures: 41% forests and woodland: 20% other: 12% (1993 est.) Irrigated land: 13,140 sq km (1993 est.) Natural hazards: severe earthquakes Environment - current issues: air pollution; water pollution Environment - international agreements: party to: Air Pollution, Air Pollution-Nitrogen Oxides, Air Pollution-Sulphur 94, Antarctic-Environmental Protocol, Antarctic Treaty, Biodiversity, Climate Change, Desertification, Endangered Species, Environmental Modification, Hazardous Wastes, Law of the Sea, Marine Dumping, Nuclear Test Ban, Ozone Layer Protection, Ship Pollution, Tropical Timber 83, Tropical Timber 94, Wetlands signed, but not ratified: Air Pollution-Persistent Organic Pollutants, Air Pollution-Volatile Organic Compounds, Climate Change-Kyoto Protocol Geography - note: strategic location dominating the Aegean Sea and southern approach to Turkish Straits; a peninsular country, possessing an archipelago of about 2,000 islands People [Top of Page] Population: 10,601,527 (July 2000 est.) Age structure: 0-14 years: 15% (male 828,585; female 779,902) 15-64 years: 67% (male 3,580,079; female 3,574,788) 65 years and over: 18% (male 815,247; female 1,022,926) (2000 est.) Population growth rate: 0.21% (2000 est.) Birth rate: 9.82 births/1,000 population (2000 est.) Death rate: 9.64 deaths/1,000 population (2000 est.) Net migration rate: 1.97 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2000 est.) Sex ratio: at birth: 1.07 male(s)/female under 15 years: 1.06 male(s)/female 15-64 years: 1 male(s)/female 65 years and over: 0.8 male(s)/female total population: 0.97 male(s)/female (2000 est.) Infant mortality rate: 6.51 deaths/1,000 live births (2000 est.) Life expectancy at birth: total population: 78.44 years male: 75.89 years female: 81.16 years (2000 est.) Total fertility rate: 1.33 children born/woman (2000 est.) Nationality: noun: Greek(s) adjective: Greek Ethnic groups: Greek 98%, other 2% note: the Greek Government states there are no ethnic divisions in Greece Religions: Greek Orthodox 98%, Muslim 1.3%, other 0.7% Languages: Greek 99% (official), English, French Literacy: definition: age 15 and over can read and write total population: 95% male: 98% female: 93% (1991 est.)"}, {"response": 57, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (00:40)", "body": "How current is this information, I wonder... Country name: conventional long form: Hellenic Republic conventional short form: Greece local long form: Elliniki Dhimokratia local short form: Ellas or Ellada former: Kingdom of Greece Data code: GR Government type: parliamentary republic; monarchy rejected by referendum 8 December 1974 Capital: Athens Administrative divisions: 51 prefectures (nomoi, singular - nomos)and 1 autonomous region*; Ayion Oros* (Mt. Athos), Aitolia kai Akarnania, Akhaia, Argolis, Arkadhia, Arta, Attiki, Dhodhekanisos, Drama, Evritania, Evros, Evvoia, Florina, Fokis, Fthiotis, Grevena, Ilia, Imathia, Ioannina, Irakleion, Kardhitsa, Kastoria, Kavala, Kefallinia, Kerkyra, Khalkidhiki, Khania, Khios, Kikladhes, Kilkis, Korinthia, Kozani, Lakonia, Larisa, Lasithi, Lesvos, Levkas, Magnisia, Messinia, Pella, Pieria, Preveza, Rethimni, Rodhopi, Samos, Serrai, Thesprotia, Thessaloniki, Trikala, Voiotia, Xanthi, Zakinthos Independence: 1829 (from the Ottoman Empire) National holiday: Independence Day, 25 March (1821) (proclamation of the war of independence) Constitution: 11 June 1975; amended March 1986 Legal system: based on codified Roman law; judiciary divided into civil, criminal, and administrative courts Suffrage: 18 years of age; universal and compulsory Executive branch: chief of state: President Konstandinos (Kostis) STEPHANOPOULOS (since 10 March 1995) head of government: Prime Minister Konstandinos SIMITIS (since 19 January 1996) cabinet: Cabinet appointed by the president on the recommendation of the prime minister elections: president elected by Parliament for a five-year term; election last held 8 February 2000 (next to be held by NA March 2005); prime minister appointed by the president election results: Konstandinos STEPHANOPOULOS reelected president; percent of Parliament vote - 90% Legislative branch: unicameral Parliament or Vouli ton Ellinon (300 seats; members are elected by direct popular vote to serve four-year terms) elections: elections last held 9 April 2000 (next to be held by NA April 2004) election results: percent of vote by party - PASOK 43.8%, ND 42.7%, KKE 5.5%, Coalition of the Left and Progress 3.2%; seats by party - PASOK 158, ND 125, KKE 11, Coalition of the Left and Progress 6 Judicial branch: Supreme Judicial Court, judges appointed for life by the president after consultation with a judicial council; Special Supreme Tribunal, judges appointed for life by the president after consultation with a judicial council Political parties and leaders: Coalition of the Left and Progress (Synaspismos) [Nikolaos KONSTANDOPOULOS]; Communist Party of Greece or KKE [Aleka PAPARIGA]; Democratic Social Movement or DIKKI [Dhimitrios TSOVOLAS]; Liberal Party [Stephanos MANOS]; New Democracy or ND (conservative) [Konstandinos KARAMANLIS]; Panhellenic Socialist Movement or PASOK [Konstandinos SIMITIS]; Political Spring [Andonis SAMARAS]; Rainbow Coalition [Pavlos VOSKOPOULOS] International organization participation: Australia Group, BIS, BSEC, CCC, CE, CERN, EAPC, EBRD, ECE, EIB, EU, FAO, G- 6, IAEA, IBRD, ICAO, ICC, ICFTU, ICRM, IDA, IEA, IFAD, IFC, IFRCS, IHO, ILO, IMF, IMO, Inmarsat, Intelsat, Interpol, IOC, IOM, ISO, ITU, MINURSO, NAM (guest), NATO, NEA, NSG, OAS (observer), OECD, OPCW, OSCE, PCA, UN, UNCTAD, UNESCO, UNHCR, UNIDO, UNIKOM, UNMIBH, UNOMIG, UPU, WEU, WFTU, WHO, WIPO, WMO, WToO, WTrO, ZC Diplomatic representation in the US: chief of mission: Ambassador Alexandros PHILON chancery: 2221 Massachusetts Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20008 telephone: [1] (202) 939-5800 FAX: [1] (202) 939-5824 consulate(s) general: Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, and San Francisco consulate(s): Atlanta, Houston, and New Orleans Diplomatic representation from the US: chief of mission: Ambassador R. Nicholas BURNS embassy: 91 Vasilissis Sophias Boulevard, 10160 Athens mailing address: PSC 108, APO AE 09842-0108 telephone: [30] (1) 721-2951 FAX: [30] (1) 645-6282 consulate(s) general: Thessaloniki Flag description: nine equal horizontal stripes of blue alternating with white; there is a blue square in the upper hoist-side corner bearing a white cross; the cross symbolizes Greek Orthodoxy, the established religion of the country Economy [Top of Page] Economy - overview: Greece has a mixed capitalist economy with the public sector accounting for about half of GDP. The government plans to privatize some leading state enterprises. Tourism is a key industry, providing a large portion of GDP and foreign exchange earnings. Greece is a major beneficiary of EU aid, equal to about 4% of GDP. The economy has improved steadily over the last few years, as the government has tightened policy with the goal of qualifying Greece to join the EU's single currency (the euro) in 2001. In particular, Greece has cut its budget deficit below 2% of GDP and tightened monetary policy, with the result that inflation fell below 4% by the end of 1998 - the lowest rate in 26 years - and averaged only 2.6% in 1999"}, {"response": 58, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (00:41)", "body": "Telephones - main lines in use: 5.431 million (1997) Telephones - mobile cellular: 328,500 (1997) Telephone system: adequate, modern networks reach all areas; microwave radio relay carries most traffic; extensive open-wire network; submarine cables to off-shore islands domestic: microwave radio relay, open wire, and submarine cable international: tropospheric scatter; 8 submarine cables; satellite earth stations - 2 Intelsat (1 Atlantic Ocean and 1 Indian Ocean), 1 Eutelsat, and 1 Inmarsat (Indian Ocean region) Radio broadcast stations: AM 26, FM 88, shortwave 4 (1998) Radios: 5.02 million (1997) Television broadcast stations: 64 (plus about 1,000 low-power repeaters); also two stations in the US Armed Forces Network (1999) Televisions: 2.54 million (1997) Internet Service Providers (ISPs): 23 (1999) (Thank goodness for that!!)"}, {"response": 59, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (00:47)", "body": "National Holidays: Independence Day, 25 March (1821) (proclamation of the war of independence) Constitution: 11 June 1975 ; amended March 1986 March 25th and June 11th National Holidays of Greece. (John, I know you told me... is this correct? I have much to read through in our conversations if I am incorrect...) For a really complete list http://www.greecetravel.com/holidays/"}, {"response": 60, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (00:49)", "body": "March 25th The Greek National Anniversary and a major religious holiday with military parades in the larger towns and cities.This celebrates Greece's victory in the war of Independence against the Turks who had occupied the country for 400 years. The 25th of March was actually the day Bishop Germanos of Patras raised the flag of national rebellion at the monastery of Agia Lavra in the northern Peleponisos."}, {"response": 61, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Oct 24, 2001 (00:51)", "body": "I cannot find anything but Greek Independence Day... March 25th... I'll keep looking http://www.eurobeaches.com/greece/grdates.htm"}, {"response": 62, "author": "tsatsvol", "date": "Thu, Oct 25, 2001 (16:31)", "body": "Thank you Marcia for the above information's for Greece. We have two National holidays. You are absolutely correct about March 25th, but not for June 11th. The second our National holiday is on October 28. We celebrate the denial (OCHI that means NO) of the Prime Minister Ioannis Metaxas to the fascistic Italy in the 28th of October 1941. This day, was also the first day of Greek-Italy war, in the Second World War. We celebrate this day also with military parades in the big cities (mainly in Thessaloniki) and in every city with parades of school children\ufffds. During this Greek- Italy war, we made the first victory of the allied Powers against the German \ufffd Italy axis. John"}, {"response": 63, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 21, 2001 (17:03)", "body": "The Greek Flag consists of alternating blue (five) and white (four) stripes. The first and last stripes are always blue. Anyone who has travelled in the Greek islands would probably understand the \"choice\" of the blue colour! At the top leftt hand corner, there is a white cross. The cross is the symbol of Christian Orthodoxy, the national religion of Greece. There are nine blue and white stripes because there are nine syllables in the Greek phrase \"\u00ce\u00b5\u00ce\u00bb\u00ce\u00b5\u00cf\u2026\u00ce\u00b8\u00ce\u00b5\u00cf?\u00ce\u00af\u00ce\u00b1 \u00ce\u00ae \u00ce\u00b8\u00ce\u00ac\u00ce\u00bd\u00ce\u00b1\u00cf\u201e\u00ce\u00bf\u00cf\u201a\" (freedom or death). This expression represented the Greek nation's determination to fight for liberation from the Ottoman occupation in March 1821. http://www.onikos.btinternet.co.uk/Consulate/The-Greek-Flag.ht"}, {"response": 64, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 21, 2001 (17:08)", "body": "I'm sorry about the way that Greek font pasted. Please visit the link to see what it really says. I also have much bigger flags to post in the future. Plus the transation into English of the Greek National Anthem by Rudyard Kipling. All 158 stanzas....! I am getting you ready for the 2002 Winter Olympics. The flag of Greece always enters first. Pay attention... there WILL be a test!"}, {"response": 65, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 21, 2001 (17:11)", "body": "The Flag of Greece The pattern and colors of the Greek Flag haven't changed a lot since the Revolution of the Greek Nation in 1821. Many people wonder why the founders of the Hellenic Democracy have chosen the symbols, patterns and colors that appear on the National Flag of Greece. It is difficult to reveal the true intentions of the people responsible for the selection of the flag. This is a personal attempt to interpret the designs and colors of the flag and its relation to Greece and Hellenism. The designs, symbols and patterns of the Flag The number of the lines is based on the number of the syllables in the Greek phrase: Eleutheria H Thanatos (Liberty or Death). Liberty or Death was the motto during the years of the Hellenic Revolution against the Ottoman Empire in the 19nth century [There are claims that the number of lines reflects the number of letters in the Greek word for Freedom which equals 9]. This word stirred the heart of the oppressed Greeks, it created intense emotions and inspired them to fight and gain their freedom after 400 years of slavery. The line pattern was chosen because of their similarity with the wavy sea that surounds the shores of Greece. The interchange of blue and white colors makes the Hellenic Flag on a windy day to look like the Aegean Pelagos (sea). Only the quaint islands are missing! The Greek Square Cross that rests on the upper left-side of the flag and occupies one fourth of the total area demonstrates the respect and the devotion the Greek people have for the Greek Orthodox Church and signifies the important role of Christianity in the formation of the modern Hellenic Nation. During the dark years of the Ottoman rule, the Greek Orthodox Church helped the enslaved Greeks to retain their cultural characteristics: the Greek language, the Byzantine religion and generally the Greek ethnic identity, by the institution of the Crypha Scholia (secret schools). The Crypha Scholia were a web of schools that operated secretly throughout Greece and were committed in transmitting to the Greeks the wonders of their ancestors and the rest of their cultural heritage. Today, Christianity is still the dominant religion among Greeks. Therefore the existence of the Cross is justified. The colors of the Flag Blue and White! These two colors symbolize the blue of the Greek Sea and the Whiteness of the restless Greek waves! According to the mythic legends, the Goddess of Beauty, Aphrodite (Venus) emerged from these waves. In addition, it reflects the blue of the Greek Sky and the White of the few clouds that travel in it. There are some who speculate that the blue and white symbolize the similar color of the clothing (vrakes) of the Greek sailors during the War of Independence. http://alexandros.com/grflag.html"}, {"response": 66, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 21, 2001 (17:16)", "body": "Speaking of Olympic Games and heroes, a few names here might be familiar. (Is Miltiades really promounced like that? Some of the syllables are missing!) Miltiades Pronounced As: miltidz , d. 489 B.C., Athenian general who commanded at Marathon. He succeeded his uncle as ruler (c.524 B.C.) of an Athenian dependency in the Gallipoli Peninsula. He accompanied (c.513) Darius in the Persian expedition into Scythia. Later he took part in the revolt of Ionian Greece against the Persians (499-493) and afterward fled to Athens. His experience and ability made him a powerful figure and he was elected to the board of generals to oppose the impending Persian invasion (see Persian Wars). When the enemy arrived at Marathon (490), Miltiades went there to protect Athens from the land side. After a few days' delay the Persians began the march toward Athens, and Miltiades attacked. He had an infantry that was greatly outnumbered, but the Greek spears and armor outweighed Persian arms. The Athenian center gave way and the wings enveloped the Persians, vanquishing them. The Persians retreated to their ships and set out at once by sea to attack Athens, the army being absent. Perhaps the chief glory of Miltiades was that he brought his army, which had been fighting all day, in a 20-mi (32-km) race back to Athens; in the morning when the Persian fleet arrived off Athens, Miltiades and his army were ready. After the battle Miltiades was given a fleet. In 489, he made an unsuccessful attack on Paros. His enemies took advantage of the failure and had him fined. He died of a wound soon after. http://www.encyclopedia.com/articlesnew/08501.html"}, {"response": 67, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 21, 2001 (18:53)", "body": "Miltiades (mlt\ufffddz) (KEY) , d. 489 B.C., Athenian general who commanded at Marathon. He succeeded his uncle as ruler (c.524 B.C.) of an Athenian dependency in the Gallipoli Peninsula. He accompanied (c.513) Darius in the Persian expedition into Scythia. Later he took part in the revolt of Ionian Greece against the Persians (499\ufffd493) and afterward fled to Athens. His experience and ability made him a powerful figure and he was elected to the board of generals to oppose the impending Persian invasion (see Persian Wars). When the enemy arrived at Marathon (490), Miltiades went there to protect Athens from the land side. After a few days\ufffd delay the Persians began the march toward Athens, and Miltiades attacked. He had an infantry that was greatly outnumbered, but the Greek spears and armor outweighed Persian arms. The Athenian center gave way and the wings enveloped the Persians, vanquishing them. The Persians retreated to their ships and set out at once by sea to attack Athens, the army being absent. Perhaps the chief glory of Miltiades was that he brought his army, which had been fighting all day, in a 20-mi (32-km) race back to Athens; in the morning when the Persian fleet arrived off Athens, Miltiades and his army were ready. After the battle Miltiades was given a fleet. In 489, he made an unsuccessful attack on Paros. His enemies took advantage of the failure and had him fined. He died of a wound soon after. http://www.bartleby.com/65/mi/Miltiade.html"}, {"response": 68, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 21, 2001 (18:57)", "body": "(I am having real difficulties pronouncing this name... I guess I need to find some to talk to me in Greek place and proper names.) It is not like Hawaiian where there are very few diphthongs and you pronounce each vowel as a separate syllable.)"}, {"response": 69, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov 30, 2001 (01:11)", "body": ""}, {"response": 70, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov 30, 2001 (01:28)", "body": "SANKT ANDREAS - SAINT ANDREW Saint Andrew the Apostle, the brother of Saint Peter, was martyred under the Emperor Nero and is remembered on November 30, traditionally considered the date of his martyrdom in 60 A.D. He is said to have died on a diagonally transversed cross which the Romans sometimes used for executions and which, therefore, came to be called St. Andrew's cross. After Christ's resurrection and the descent of the Holy Ghost, St. Andrew preached the gospel in Scythia, as Origen testifies. Sophronius, who wrote soon after St. Jerome and translated his catalogue of illustrious men and some other works into Greek, adds Sogdiana and Colchis. Theodoret tells us that he passed into Greece; St. Gregory Nazianzen mentions particularly Epirus and St. Jerom Achaia. St. Paulinus says this divine fisherman, preaching at Argos, put all the philosophers there to silence. St. Philastrius tells us, that he came out of Pontus into Greece, and that in his time people at Sinope were persuaded that they had his true picture, and the pulpit in which he had preached in that city. The Muscovites have long gloried that St. Andrew carried the gospel into their country as far as the mouth of the Borysthenes, and to the mountains where the city of Kiou now stands, and to the frontiers of Poland. If the ancients mean European Scythia, when they speak of the theatre of his labours, this authority is favourable to the pretensions of the Muscovites. The Greeks understand it of Scythia, beyond Sebastopolis in Colchis, and perhaps also of the European; for they say he planted the faith in Thrace, and particularly at Byzantium, afterwards called Constantinople. But of this we meet with no traces in antiquity. Several Calendars commemorate the feast of the chair of St. Andrew at Patrae, in Achaia It is agreed that he laid down his life there for Christ. St. Paulinus says, that having taken many people in the nets of Christ he confirmed the faith which he had preached by his blood at Patrae. St. Sophronius, St. Gaudentius, and St. Austin assure us that he was crucified; St. Peter Chrysologus says, on a tree; Pseudo-Hippolytus adds, on an olive-tree. In the hymn of Pope Damasus it is barely mentioned that he was crucified. When the apostle saw his cross at a distance, he is said to have cried out, \"Hail, precious cross, that hast been consecrated by the body of my Lord, and adorned with his limbs as with rich jewels. I come to thee exulting and glad: receive me with joy into thy arms. O good cross, that hast received beauty from our Lord's limbs; I have ardently loved thee; long have I desired and sought thee: now thou art found by me, and art made ready for my longing soul; receive me into thy arms, taking me from among men, and present me to my master; that he who redeemed me on thee, may receive me by thee.\" The body of St. Andrew was translated from Patrae to Constantinople in 357, together with those of St. Luke and St. Timothy, and deposited in the Church of the Apostles, which Constantine the Great had built a little before. St. Paulinus and St. Jerome mention miracles wrought on that occasion. The churches of Milan, Nola, Brescia, and some other places, were at the same time enriched with small portions of these relics, as we are informed by St. Ambrose, St. Gaudentius, St. Paulinus, &c. http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/ANDREW.HTM"}, {"response": 71, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Dec 12, 2001 (18:20)", "body": ""}, {"response": 72, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Dec 12, 2001 (18:22)", "body": "Christmas in Greece * On Christmas Eve carols are usually sung by small boys to the beating of drums and the tinkling of triangles. They go from house to house and are given dried figs, almonds, walnuts and lots of sweets or sometimes small gifts. * There is a tradition kallikantzeri, where the mischievious goblins appear from the earth during the 12 days of Christmas. * At Christmas very few presents are given to each other. Instead, small gifts are given to hospitals and orphanages. * Priests sometimes go from house to house sprinkling holy water around to get rid of the bad spirits who may be hiding in people's houses. * In most Greek homes an evergreen tree is decorated with tinsel and a star placed on top. Gifts are exchanged on January 1sst, St Basil's Day. *On Christmas Eve, groups of people gather around the holiday table. Figs, dried on rooftops are served with the spicy golden Chrisopsomo bread. *As poeple are they greet one another by saying Hronia polla or many happy years. The table filled with food may include such dishes as kourambiethes, a Greek nut cookie. http://www.santas.net/greekchristmas.htm"}, {"response": 73, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Dec 12, 2001 (18:24)", "body": "Kourambiethes (Greek Christmas Sweets) Description/Notes: These delightful little sugar coated biscuits have a delicious brandy, cinnamon and almond flavour. They are the traditional Christmas sweets in Greece where it is customary to prepare them in every home although they are now to be found in most Greek cakeshops and supermarkets during the festivities Ingredients: 16 fl. oz. (450 ml.) olive oil 4 oz. (125g) sugar 1 whole egg and 1 yolk 1 tbsp. ground cinnamon 4 tbsps brandy 4 oz. (125g) almonds, roasted and coarsely ground 1 lb. (450g) flour icing suagar for coating Cooking Instructions: 1.Pour the olive oil into a large bowl and beat in the sugar 2.Add the eggs, almonds, cinnamon, almonds and brandy and beat again 3.Carefully add the flour until the dough is a soft consistency that will not stick to your hands 4.Divide the dough into pieces the size of a walnut and shape kourambiethes into rounds, oblongs and ovals 5.Place on an oiled baking sheet and bake in a pre-heated oven at 350F, Gas Mark 4, 180C for 15-20 minutes 6.Allow to cool a little then sift icing sugar over them, covering them completely"}, {"response": 74, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Dec 15, 2001 (23:04)", "body": "There is snow on Pelion, tonight - a lot of it! A White Christmas for Greece. Pelion : Along The Pagasitic Gulf The road southeast of Volos leads to Agria (8 km. from Volos), a coastal suburb with an extensive beach in a fertile district filled with olive groves and orchards. Here you will find a number of hotels and restaurants. The chapel of the Virgin of Goritsa and the icon screen with carved and painted scenes from everyday life in the chapel of the Holy Cross are sure to leave an impression. From Agria a secondary road rises 12 km to Drakia (17.5 km from Volos, alt. 500 m.), a village characterised by lush vegetation, running streams, well-made alleyways and marvellous popular \"tower houses\". The Triantaphyllou mansion, decorated with 18th century wall paintings, carved doorways and moulded ceilings is considered among the best of its kind. The main square, thought by historians to be the oldest in Pelion, hosts a folk festival on the 23rd of August, complete with traditional costumes and music. After Agria the main road passes by Kato and Ano Lehonia, where most of Pelion's cultivated flowers are grown and sold. The air is scented with the blossoms of gardenias, hortensias, camellias and tuberoses. Platanidia, the port of Ano Lehonia, 13 km. from Volos is a good place for fresh fish. Continuing south the main road proceeds towards the long beach of Malaki before arriving at Kato Gatzea (17 km.), a village blessed with protected beaches and surrounded by a vast olive grove. Next comes Kala Nera (20 km. from Volos), another seaside village with a beach, leafy plane trees, orchards and abundant water. A side road to the east winds 7 kilometres up the mountainside to Milies (28 km. from Volos, alt. 360 m.), one of the most delightful larger villages of Pelion and an important cultural centre, as witnessed by the wealth of rare books and manuscripts in its library. Some of its traditional homes have been renovated by the G.N.T.O to operate as guest houses. Milies also has a fine collection of folk art (local museum), while its little railway station -- the end of the old Volos line - is particularly attractive. Here we suggest that you try the local speciality \"tyropsomo\" or cheese - bread and \"firikia\", a kind of lady apple. Just 3 kilometres further up the road you will find Vizitsa (32 km. from Volos, alt. 450 m.) a mountain village concealed among plane trees whose lovely Pelionstyle towers and magnificent old mansions have led to its declaration as a landmark settlement protected from unseemly development. Some of the latter have been renovated by the G.N.T.O. and are run as guest houses. If you feel like forgetting your cares and troubles for a while, try a little of the potent local brew, \"tsipouro\". I through more olive groves and orchards . Back on the main road, you pass on the way to Koropi, which occupies the site of the ancient city of the same name, famous in the past as the home of the Oracle of Apollo Koropaios. On the 24th kilometre of the main road, a short deviation (2 km.) will take you to Afissos (26 km. from Volos). The main road, which starts its ascent of Pelion after Afetes, forks near here: after Neohori the northern branch leads to Tsangarada passing through Lambinou, with a stunning view of the Aegean; while the southern branch goes to the big village of Argalasti (40 km. from Volos, alt. 250 m.), situated on a fertile plateau renowned for its olives. Several secondary roads radiate out from Argalasti to the seaside villages of Kalamos and Paos on the Pagasitic gulf and the mountain hamlets of Kallithea, Xinovrisi and Paltsi, on the Aegean coast. Continuing south there is a succession of sandy beaches one after the other as far as Milina, a pretty summer resort. After Milina the road has recently been extended as far as Trikeri (82 km), the lovely, mansion - filled village at the tip of the Magnesia peninsula. Up to now communications with Volos were possible only by boat via the little port of Agia Kiriaki, a charming fishing hamlet whose \"tavernakia\" specialise in seafood. Trikeri, Agia Kiriaki and Ai Giannis, an undeveloped fishing community on the islet of Palio Trikeri, form a commune, and administrative unit smaller than a municipality. The weddings in local costume and the traditional customs observed there during Easter week and on May Day are not to be missed if you happen to be in Greece in the spring. East of Milina the road goes on to Lafkos and Promiri, a typical example of a village submerged in olive trees, winding up in Platania, a quaint fishing village to the south. more... http://www.vacation.net.gr/p/pelion.html"}, {"response": 75, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Dec 15, 2001 (23:07)", "body": "I wish there was a webcam so I could see how beautiful it is. My mind cannot comprehend the beauty of the sunlit Aegean Sea and white beaches covered in snow. The pictures with the above post are magnificent."}, {"response": 76, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Dec 15, 2001 (23:09)", "body": "Fresh fish. I wonder what kinds. I'm off to search for the answer. Another link with Hawaii? We are surrounded by fish, so it would seem!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Dec 15, 2001 (23:21)", "body": "Greece by Lou Seibert Pappas Introduction Greece, a republic 50,962 square miles in area, is located in the southern Balkan Peninsula of southeastern Europe. The population of the country numbers around 10 million and the capital and largest city is Athens. The basic monetary unity is the drachma. Ancient Greece is considered the cradle of Western civilization, starting about 2500 years ago. In those days Greece controlled much of the land bordering the Mediterranean and Black Seas. In Athens and elsewhere in Greece, magnificent ruins stand as monuments to the nation's glorious past. The Greeks came under control of invaders for more than 2,000 years. They lost their independence to the Macedonians in 338 B.C. and did not regain it until A.D. 1829, from the Ottoman Turks. Since then, Greece has had many serious political problems. Yet their arts, philosophy, and science became foundations of Western thought and culture. About a fifth of Greece consists of islands and no part of Greece is more than 85 miles from the sea. Greece and its sun-kissed isles offer a tantalizing cuisine that is fresh and fragrant, served with warmth and vitality. The Greeks' zest for the good life and love of simple, well-seasoned foods is reflected at the table. Theirs is an unpretentious cuisine that makes the most of their surroundings. It is a cuisine entrenched in history and punctuated by the cultures of its neighbors for centuries: Turkey, the Middle East, and the Balkans. This land of blue skies and sparkling seas offers a variety of fresh ingredients close at hand. Olive trees flourish, providing a flavor-packed oil to bathe other foods. Vineyards thread the rolling hills, and the grape crush and ferment produces excellent wines, some resin-flavored. Fragrant lemon trees produce the golden fruit whose tang pervades Greek gastronomy. The seas are blessed with a variety of fish and shellfish and harbor-side tavernas serve them grilled, baked, and fried and often whole, with the head still on. Lamb is the principal meat served and a holiday festivity calls for ceremoniously spit-roasting a whole carcass out of doors. For everyday meals, lamb is braised and stewed in casseroles with assorted vegetables and skewered and broiled. Pork, beef, and game are marinated, grilled, and baked. Chicken is broiled or braised. Good meat and vegetable combinations are endless, often embellished with the golden lemon sauce, avgolemono, or a cinnamon-spiced tomato sauce. Moussaka, layered with eggplant or zucchini and a garlic-scented meat sauce, and bearing a custard topping, is the ubiquitous casserole dish. Pilaffs are laced with spices and nuts. Fila pitas, composed of the wafer-thin pastry, and layered with chicken and mushrooms, spinach and feta, or lamb and leeks, are a delight. An abundance of fresh vegetables inspires imaginative cooked and marinated vegetable dishes and salads, often strewn with mountain-grown herbs: garlic, oregano, mint, basil, and dill. Fresh feta, Romano, and Kasseri, in particular, are used lavishly to accompany homemade whole-grain bread or salad or to grate and top vegetables or pasta. Undoubtedly baklava is the most famous pastry, a multi-layered affair ribboned with nuts and oozing with honey syrup. A visit to a Greek pastry shop reveals the versatility of fila dough in dozens of different fila pastries, many of Turkish derivation.The honeyed fila pastries and buttery nut cookies compose a separate late afternoon meal accompanied by thick Greek coffee. Fresh fruit -- generally figs, orange, apples, and melon -- usually conclude the late evening dinner. Feasts and festivals are integral to Hellenic life. Name days, saints' days, weddings, and holidays are the occasion for merriment, a bounteous table and spirited folk dancing. Common Greek Cooking Terms and Ingredients General Terms Arni lamb Avgolemono An egg and lemon mixtures used as a sauce or a soup base. Baklava the most famous Greek dessert, made of layers of fila pastry, chopped nuts, and a honey-flavored syrup Bourekakia fila puffs made with various fillings Dolmades grapevine leaves stuffed with rice or meat Feta the classic white goat cheese of Greece Fila, filo, or phyllo the paper-thin pastry dough essential for appetizers, entrees, and desserts. Gouvetsi the Greek word for casserole, or baked in the oven Garides shrimp Kafes coffee Kalamaria squid Kalamata probably the most famous Greek olive Kasseri creamy farm cheese with a bitey flavor Kefalotiri a hard, salty cheese, good for grating Kourabiedes butter cookies topped with powdered sugar Mezethes small savory appetizers Moussaka a layered casserole usualy made with eggplant and chopped meat, and topped with a custard sauce Orzo tiny melon seed-shaped pasta Ouzo a colorless alcoholic drink flavored with anise. Pastitsio a layered casserole of macaroni and chopped meat topped with a custard sauce Pilafi rice boiled in broth and flavored with onion and spices Psari fish Retsina white or rose win"}, {"response": 78, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Dec 15, 2001 (23:28)", "body": "To Cafenio (The Cafe) 26 Loukianou Athens Located in the fashionable Kolonaki section, this ouzerie offers regional specialties from throughout Greece. A luncheon menu features 16 meze. They include: fava fava bean pur\ufffde kolokithokeftedes zucchini fritters lachanodolmades cabbage leaves stuffed with beef and rice and served with avgolemono sauce melitzanosalata eggplant pur\ufffde tyropita cheese pie spanakopita spinach pie patatosalata potato salad melizana papoutsaka eggplant stuffed with ground beef with tomato sauce and cheese gardumba lamb intestines rolled into a sausage saganaka fried Kasseri cheese kolokithia yemista zucchini stuffed with ground beef and rice and served with avgolemono sauce splena spleen marides fried white bait souzoukakai beef meatballs baked in the oven keftaidakia fried beef meatball house salad artichoke zucchini, green beans, mushrooms, and onion dressed with dill vinaigrette."}, {"response": 79, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Dec 15, 2001 (23:52)", "body": "Sadziki (sahd-zee-key): Yogurt, cucumber and garlic, and salt. Great on fresh Greek bread. Melitzana Salata (mel-its-zan-na sal-ah-ta): Eggplant salad. Like Babaganoush in the middle east. Eaten on bread. Tarama Salata (tah-rah-mah sal-ah-tah): roe of carp. Greek caviar. Don't be afraid to try it. It doesn't taste like you expect. Eaten on bread. Saganaki (saga-nah-ki): fried cheese. Sometimes comes with tomato sauce. I like it plain with lemon. Capari Salata (cap-ah-ri sa-lah-tah): Caper salad. Sifnos specialty. Goes on bread. Tiro Salata (tee-row sa-lah-tah): Cheese salad. Strong sometimes spicy. Spread on bread Olives (ill-yes): a hundred different varieties. Don't say you don't like olives until you have tried them all. You may find one you can't live without. Casseri(keh-seh-ree) Soft cheese like mozzerela. Keftedes (kef-teh-des): Deep-fried Meatballs. Other areas have their own variety of keftedes. Sifnos has Revithiakeftedes (reh-veeth-ya-kef-teh-des), made from chickpeas. Santorini has Domatokeftedes (tho-mah-toh-kef-teh-des) made from Tomatoes. There are also Tirokeftedes (tee-row-kef-teh-des) made with cheese and psarokeftedes (psah-row-kef-teh-des) made with fish. They are all delicious. Spanakopita (span-ah-koh-pee-tah) Spinach pie Tiropita (tee-row-pee-ta): Cheese pie Kreatopita (kray-ah-toh-pee-tah): Meat pie Choriatiki Salata (hoe-ree-ah-tee-key sa-lah-tah): Village salad or what we in America call a Greek Salad, except here you usually don't get lettuce. It generally consists of Tomatoes(tho-mah-tes),Cucumbers(an-goo-ree), Onions(crem-ee-thya), Feta, Oil(la-thee), vinigear (ksee-dee) and olives(ill-yes). Sometimes they leave off the feta so you have to ask for it and they charge you extra. When I order I ask for a hoe-ree-ah-tee-key meh feh-tah, a village salad with feta, just to avoid this. If you want it without any of the above items just tell the waitor: hoe-ris (without) and the name of the item. Lakanika (la-cah-nee-kah): Cabbage salad. Horta (hoar-ta): Boiled greens. Very healthy and good with lemon, oil and vinigear. Vleeta (vlee-tah): Cooked and served like horta but different greens. Restaurants will have one or the other. Yigendes (yee-gen-des): Big beans like lima beans served either with oil and lemon or with tomatoe sauce. Fava(fah-vah): Dip or stew made from yellow split peas that can be eaten with a spoon or with bread. Kolokithikia Vrasta(koh-loh-kee-thak-ya vras-tah): Boiled zuchinni seasoned with oil, lemon and sometimes vinegar. Patates Tiganites (pa-tah-tes tee-gah-nee-tes): fried potatoes. Greek french fries blows MacDonalds away. It must be the oil. Patates to Fourno (pa-tah-tes toh for-no): Oven roasted potatoes. My favorite dish. Briam(bree-am): roast vegetables. Usually contains potatoes, onions, zucchini, eggplant, garlic and tomatoes. Rivithia (reh-vee-thya): Chickpea stew. Araka (ah-rah-kah): Peas. Cooked with onions and tomatoes. Stifado(stee-fah-doh): Stew made with lots of small onions, tomatoes and either rabbit (kou-nell-ee), lamb(ar-nee), or octopus(ock-toh-poh-thee). Dolmades (doh-mah-des): Grape-leaves stuffed with rice, onions and sometimes ground beef. Macaronia (mak-ah-ron-ya): Spagetti as we call it. Served with ground beef (meh kee-mah) or tomatoe sauce (sal-tsa). If you want to say without meat say ho-ris kray-ahs. Mousaka (moo-sah-kah): Baked and similar eggplant parmegeon but not as tomato saucy. Contains eggplant, potatoes, onions, ground beef, oil, cinnamin, and a flour, milk and butter topping. Pastitsio(pah-sti-tsyo): Like Lasagna but not as saucy. Layered noodles, meat, tomato sauce and topping similar to mousaka but denser. Anginares (ang-ee-nar-es): Artichokes in lemon and egg sauce with potatoes. Lamb (arn-nee)Dishes Fricasse (arn-nee free-cah-seh): Stew made with spinach, lemon, eggs and oil. Psito(psee-toh) Leg of lamb roasted with potatoes. Sti Carbona(stee-car-bon-ah): charcoal grilled. Pidakia (pie-dye-kya): Ribs grilled. Chicken (Koh-toh-poo-loh) Psito or To Fourno (toh four-no): Oven Roasted with potatoes or roast. Me Saltsa (meh sal-tsah): In red sauce. Tis skaras(tis ska-ras): On the grill Souvlas (sou-vlas): Shishkabob Stithos (stee-thos): Breast Podi (po-thee): Leg Grilled Meats Brizoles (bree-zoh-les):Steak Khirini (khe-ree-nee) Pork Souvlakia (sue-vlak-yah): Shish-cabob Loukanika (lou-con-ee-kah): sausage Kokoretsi(ko-ko-ret-see): Entrails of lamb wrapped up and roasted on a spit. Kontosouvli (konto-sou-vli): Big hunks of pork cooked on a spit. Fish Astako (as-tak-ko): Lobster. Mediteranean stylen no claws Garides (ga-ree-des): Shrimp, usually large and grilled Xifia (ksee-fee-ya): Swordfish. Grilled steaks or souvlaki. Barbounia(bar-boon-ya): Red Mullet. Expensive and delicious grilled or fried. Marides(mar-ree-des): Small deep fried fish that can be eaten whole, heads bones and all. Gopes (go-pes): Small tasty in-expensive fish served fried or grilled. Soupia(soup-ya): Cuttle fish. Served grilled or with a red wine-sauce. Mi"}, {"response": 80, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Dec 16, 2001 (00:05)", "body": "Now, to master the pronounciation (which will have all the wrong inflections...)"}, {"response": 81, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Dec 16, 2001 (00:11)", "body": "A very good guide for all those making their first visit to Greece, or planning to go - even if just in their dreams: http://www.athensguide.com/index.html"}, {"response": 82, "author": "tsatsvol", "date": "Wed, Dec 19, 2001 (03:17)", "body": "Astonishing work Marcia! Dreams are usually impressive. But your descriptions exceed them. You know already more things for Greece than that I know. But, as it usually happens, in the internet they present only the beautiful side. What perhaps it is unknown to you is the Mediterranean attitude of persons. The way of life tends to become as yours and the Greek ways become less day by day. Athens does not differ a lot from any European or American megalopolis. Fortunately far from Athens the ways are still Greek. John"}, {"response": 83, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Dec 19, 2001 (23:44)", "body": "This comment on lifestyles is very much as it is in Hawaii. They only show the beautiful parts in pictures, Honolulu is like any large city on earth, and the further away you get from people who have moved here from otehr places, the more like old Hawaii it is. I assumed the Mediterranean attitude was of passion and joy for life. Hawaii is very casual and relaxed. It is easy to be lazy here, and those who do not adapt to this slow life gets unhappy and usually moves away after a few years of trying to make Hawaii like the rest of the world. I had hoped Greece had the passion and joy of living you have for your work and your life and perhaps a few other things... *Smile*"}, {"response": 84, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Dec 19, 2001 (23:46)", "body": "Thank you for the kind words for what I wrote. I have loved Greece since my early childhood when I lived in books of mythology and archaeology. Now, I have a renewed interest. *Sigh*"}, {"response": 85, "author": "tsatsvol", "date": "Sun, Dec 23, 2001 (06:35)", "body": "Health & Happiness to all of you! Peace on Earth without natural disasters! ( John from Greece )"}, {"response": 86, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Dec 23, 2001 (22:01)", "body": "Merry Christmas, John! Kala Christouyenna!"}, {"response": 87, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Dec 23, 2001 (22:02)", "body": "I even have a little wav file telling me how to pronounce it. Kala Christouyenna!"}, {"response": 88, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Dec 29, 2001 (21:25)", "body": "CHRISTMAS IN GREECE *December 25th by Gary Van Haas Christmas was never considered much of a holiday in Greece compared with Easter, but things have slowly changed and now it's finally become a much cherished. For instance, now you'll find Christmas in Greece celebrated with lavish decorations and lights strung across most of the streets in major cities and towns. Athens in particular has responded to the revival of Christmas where its flamboyant mayor, Dimitris Avramopoulos, has added new colour to the festivities by erecting the largest Christmas tree in Europe. This tree can be seen towering above busy Syntagma (Constitution square), where Athens now also hosts exciting 'live' stage acts and shows featuring many of Greece's popular entertainers. But the beginnings of Christmas in Greece go back to the time of St. Nicholas, who was known as the patron saint of sailors. According to Greek tradition, his clothes were soaked with brine, his beard drenched with saltwater, and his face is covered with perspiration because he had been fighting the storms and waves to reach sinking ships and rescue drowning men from the sea. Even today there is still an old custom where many ships never leave port without a St. Nicholas icon carried in the boat. In Greece, there are many Christmas customs that are similar, yet slightly different from the West. Such as the custom on Christmas Eve where village children travel from house to house offering good wishes and singing 'kalanda', the equivalent of Christmas carols. The children often accompany the songs using small metal triangles and little clay drums. Afterwards, the children are usually given sweets or coins in appreciation. In Greek Christmas, the feast itself becomes the main attraction by both adults and children alike. Lamb and pork are roasted in ovens and open spits, and on almost every table are loaves of 'christopsomo' ('Christ bread'). This bread is usually made in large sweet loaves of various shapes and the crusts are engraved and decorated in some way that reflects the family's profession. In Greek homes, Christmas trees are not commonly used, but recently have become more popular. In almost every house though- the main symbol of the season is a shallow wooden bowl with a piece of wire is suspended across the rim; from that hangs a sprig of basil wrapped around a wooden cross. A small amount of water is kept in the bowl to keep the basil alive and fresh. Once a day, a family member, usually the mother, dips the cross and basil into some holy water and uses it to sprinkle water in each room of the house. This ritual is believed to keep the 'Killantzaroi' (bad spirits) away. There are a number of beliefs connected with these spirits, which are supposed to be a species of goblins who appear only during the 12-day period from Christmas to the Epiphany (January 6). These creatures are believed to come from the center of the earth and to slip into people's house through the chimney. More mischievous than actually evil, the Killantzaroi do things like extinguish fires, ride astride people's backs, braid horses' tails, and sour the milk. To further repel the undesirable sprites, the hearth is kept burning day and night throughout the twelve days. Gifts are finally exchanged on St. Basil's Day (January 1). On this day the \"renewal of waters\" also takes place, a ritual in which all water jugs in the house are emptied and refilled with new \"St. Basil's Water.\" The ceremony is often accompanied by offerings to the 'naiads', spirits of springs and fountains. All in all, Christmas is an enjoyable part of Greece today and one that should be experienced by all. from http://www.gogreece.com/learn/christmas.htm"}, {"response": 89, "author": "tsatsvol", "date": "Mon, Dec 31, 2001 (07:47)", "body": "\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd I wish everything good you have deeply in your heart to become real. From the sunny Greece John"}, {"response": 90, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jan  7, 2002 (19:33)", "body": "Thank you, John! Happy New Year from Sunny Hawaii to snowy Greece. I found the most wonderful website of Greek \"costumes\" - the word seems wrong but it works for now. I was searching for the Presidential Guard outfits and discovered so much more. Uniform of the Greek Presidential Guard, the Evzones After the liberation of Greece in the first quarter of the 19th century, all male costumes in the Peloponnese took the form of the foustanela. Extremely popular, this costume is now one of the world's most well-known traditional garment. It consists of the following items: - white cotton shirt - foustanela (white cotton pleated skirt) - boudouri (white underpants) - long knitted white leggings, secured by gonatoures (garters) tied below the knee - embroidered coat - fesi (cap) - tsarouchia (shoes) with pompons http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/2geographicsearch/Greece/greece.html"}, {"response": 91, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jan  7, 2002 (19:37)", "body": "I rather feel badly when men have better legs than I have! Cuter shoes, too. I am delighted with the above website. I will look for real men in foustanela."}, {"response": 92, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jan  7, 2002 (19:40)", "body": "foustanelae it would seem to be the proper plural. I will investigate that, also. I need a Greek grammar book..."}, {"response": 93, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Jan  7, 2002 (20:01)", "body": "The history of Greek fashion: http://dept.kent.edu/museum/exhibit/greek/Greek2.html"}, {"response": 94, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jan  8, 2002 (14:54)", "body": "The reason for John's broken leg, perhaps. *Hugs* for sharing with me what had happened to you! SPATA AIRPORT SNOWED IN FOR 4TH DAY Athens, 7 January 2002 (13:17 UTC+2) The unprecedented since 1963, as some Athens residents recall, harsh weather conditions that have struck all over the country, caught the state off guard and have caused problems in cities all over Greece, even in Athens. The northern suburbs, where the homes of some of the most distinguished individuals of Greece are located were completely cut off from the rest of Athens. Schools will remain closed for the next three days, according to announcements made by the government yesterday. The Spata airport, \ufffdEleftherios Venizelos\ufffd, is in its 4th day of being snowed in. As announced by Olympic Airways, 8 domestic flights that were scheduled to leave from Athens between 5:00-9:30am were cancelled, but flights will start leaving later in the day. Many motorists spent the weekend \ufffdburied\ufffd in 4 feet of snow on the Larisa-Athens highway. The lowest temperature recorded yesterday was \ufffd14 C in Tripolis. Florina experienced temperatures of \ufffd10 C, while Larisa and Karpenissi recorded temperatures of \ufffd8 C. In Kastoria, the frozen lake surface had to broken, as in many other country lakes, for the Theofania ritual to take place, at \ufffd5 C. The temperature in the broader Attica region was \ufffd1 in the early morning hours. According to the National Weather forecasting Service, a gradual improvement of the weather is expected today, while snowfall has decreased in Attica, Viotia and Evia. http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=242754"}, {"response": 95, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jan  8, 2002 (14:56)", "body": "ARCTIC WEATHER IN GREECE Thessaloniki, 5 January 2002 (15:26 UTC+2) The National Weather Bureau predicts arctic weather in Greece with freezing temperatures for the next few days. The temperature in Thessaloniki will be between -9 and -3 degrees Centigrade. In the wider region of Athens there will be snowfall and strong winds and temperature will be between -2 to 2 degrees Centigrade. Bad weather also hit the Aegean islands creating many problems in the sea transportation, while there are problems in the electricity supply and the road network. The \"Eleftherios Venizelos\" Athens Airport that was closed due to bad weather opened at noon today, while motorists moving from and to the airport face serious problems due to the snow. http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=242554"}, {"response": 96, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jan  8, 2002 (14:58)", "body": "PROBLEMS DUE TO THE WEATHER IN MANY PARTS OF GREECE Athens, 7 January 2002 (16:39 UTC+2) Serious problems in electricity supply, water supply as well as in the market supply with fresh fruit and vegetables are still faced by the prefectures of Attica, Evia, Viotia and the Aegean island of Crete which were mainly hit by the recent bad weather. The transfer of patients to hospitals in the wider region of Athens was conducted with great difficulty, while schools will remain closed in the prefectures of Attica, Viotia and Evia until Wednesday. The schools in other regions also hit by bad weather will open tomorrow. Extensive damages were recorded in agriculture as a result of the snowfall and freezing temperatures. The Ministers of Agriculture and Economy will hold a meeting this week. They are expected to request EU economic support for the farmers who suffered damages as a result of the unprecedented bad weather."}, {"response": 97, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jan  8, 2002 (22:34)", "body": "I can't even begin to guess how to ornament this article. I did not know they DID this. *Sigh* I am learning... Women rule for a day in N.E. Greece in annual reversal of roles 08/01/2002 22:32:15 Women take \"power\" for a day in several villages in northeastern Greece as the ancient custom of \"female rule\" was once again adhered to on Tuesday, marking the importance of fertility, as the central person of the celebration is the midwife of the community. The custom mandates the reversal of roles between men and women, as the former stay at home taking care of the children and doing housework, while the women take to the streets and indulge in all the pleasant activities of men, barring of course work. Women visit coffee shops and play cards and backgammon, they parade the streets and set up impromptu parties, \"blessed\" by the midwife, who is their \"ringleader\" in this reversal of roles. Of course, as in any \"established order\", there are violators of women's rule day and, as in the case of other \"established orders\", they are \"punished\" by being drenched with cold water, in the middle of the winter no less. The ancient custom, lost in the lore and mists of past times, was brought to Greece by ethnic Greek refugees from eastern Romylia, currently eastern Bulgaria, who arrived in Greece during a population exchange in the early 20th century."}, {"response": 98, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jan  8, 2002 (22:36)", "body": "I thought macho was the order of the day 7/365 in the Mediterranean. I have a source for further information. I will ask her."}, {"response": 99, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Jan  9, 2002 (15:57)", "body": "NATIONAL ANTHEM OF GREECE IMNOS EIS TIN ELEFTHERIAN Segnoriso apo tin Kopsi tou spathiou tin tromeri; Segnoriso apo tin opsi pou me via metra tin yi. Ap ta Kokkala vyalmeni ton ellinon ta iera Ke san prot' anthriomeni haire o hair'eleftheria. Ke san prot' anthriomeni haire o hair'eleftheria, Ke san prot' anthriomeni haire o hair'eleftheria. TRANSLATION Hymn To Freedom I shall always recognise you By the dreadful sword you hold, As the earth, with searching vision, You survey, with spirit bold. 'Twas the Greeks of old whose dying Brought to birth our spirit free. Now, with ancient valour rising, Let us hail you, oh Liberty! music... http://www.thenationalanthems.com/inninazionali/greece.mid"}, {"response": 100, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Jan  9, 2002 (16:02)", "body": "We knew thee of old, Oh, divinely restored, By the lights of thine eyes And the light of thy Sword From the graves of our slain Shall thy valour prevail As we greet thee again- Hail, Liberty! Hail! Long time didst thou dwell Mid the peoples that mourn, Awaiting some voice That should bid thee return. Ah, slow broke that day And no man dared call, For the shadow of tyranny Lay over all: And we saw thee sad-eyed, The tears on thy cheeks While thy raiment was dyed In the blood of the Greeks. Yet, behold now thy sons With impetuous breath Go forth to the fight Seeking Freedom or Death. From the graves of our slain Shall thy valour prevail As we greet thee again- Hail, Liberty! Hail! Lyrics: --Dionysios Solomos, 1824 (he is on the \"old\" 20 GDR coin) Music: Nikolaos Mantzaros, 1828 Adopted: 1864"}, {"response": 101, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Jan  9, 2002 (16:27)", "body": "THE FLAG OF GREECE \"The pattern and colors of the Greek Flag haven't changed a lot since the Revolution of the Greek Nation in 1821. Many people wonder why the founders of the Hellenic Democracy have chosen the symbols, patterns and colors that appear on the National Flag of Greece. It is difficult to unreveal the true intentions of the people responsiblefor the selection of the flag. This is a personal attempt to interpret thedesigns and colors of the flag and its relation to Greece and Hellenism\". THE DESIGN AND PATTENS OF THE FLAG \"The number of the lines is based on the number of the syllables in the Greek phrase: Eleutheria H Thanatos (Freedom or Death)\". FREEDOM OR DEATH \"Freedom or Death was the motto during the years of the Hellenic Revolution against the Ottoman Empire in the 19nth century [There are claims that the number of lines reflects the number of letters in the greek word for Freedom which equals 9]. This word stirred theheart of the oppressed Greeks, it created intense emotions and inspired them to fight and gain their freedom after 400 years of slavery. The line pattern was chosen because of their similarity with the wavy sea that surounds the shores of Greece.The interchange of blue and white colors makes the Hellenic Flag on a windy day to look like the Aegean Pelagos. Only the quaint islands are missing! The Greek Square Cross that rests on the upper left-side ofthe flag and occupies one fourth of the total area demonstrates the respect and the devotion the Greek people have for the Greek Orthodox Church and signifies the important role of Christianity in the formation of the modern Hellenic Nation. During the dark years of the Ottoman rule, the Greek Orthodox Church helped the enslaved Greeks to retain their cultural characteristics: the Greek language, the Byzantine religion and generally the Greek ethnic identity, by the institution of the Crypha Scholia (hidden schools). The Crypha Scholia were a web of schools that operated secretly throughout Greece and were committed in transmitting to the Greeks the wonders of theirancestors and the rest oftheir cultural heritage. Today, Christianity is still the dominant religion among Greeks. Therefore the existence of the Cross is justified.\" THE COLORS OF THE FLAG \"Blue and White! These two colors symbolize the blue of the Greek Sea and the Whiteness of the restless Greeks waves! According to the mythic legends, the Goddess of Beauty, Aphrodite emerged from these waves. In addition, it reflects the blue of the Greek Sky and the White of the few clouds that travel in it. There are some who suggest that the blue and white was symbolizes the similar color of the clothing (vrakes) of the Greek sailors during the Greek War of Independence.\" Work by \"Konstantin Efantis\". http://www.nafpaktos.com/colors_of_the_flag.htm"}, {"response": 102, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jan 10, 2002 (16:09)", "body": "In the ancient Olympics athletes competed in the nude The word \"gymnasium\" comes from the Greek word gymnos, which means naked. In ancient times athletes practised in the nude to the accompaniment of music. They also performed naked at the Olympic Games. Women were not allowed to participate or even to attend as spectators. The first Olympic games were held in 776BC - and then every 4 years until 339BC. The first Olympic race was won by Corubus, a chef. For many years the Olympics consisted of only one race, a sprint of 192 metres (210 yards, the length of the stadium) called the \"stadion.\" A second race of 400 metres was added 50 years later. The pentathlon, wrestling, boxing, single-horse and four-horse chariot races were included later still. There also was a special event in which runners competed in hoplite armor, helmet, shield, and greaves that weighed 20-25 kg (50-60 lbs). There were no team events, relay races or the long distance race of Marathon - these events were introduced in the modern Olympics. The record for the most Olympic medals ever won is held by Soviet gymnast Larissa Latynina. Competing in three Olympics, between 1956 and 1964, she won 18 medals: 9 gold, 5 silver and 4 bronze. Thus she also tops the list of gold medals winners, beating Olympic stars such as US swimmer Mark Spitz and Finnish long distance runner Paavo Nurmi Go for silver No medals were awarded in the ancient Olympics. A winner received an olive wreath to wear on his head. Second and third placings received nothing. When the Olympics were revived in 1896 in Athens, Greece, winners received silver medals instead of gold medals. Eight years later, at the 1904 Games in St. Louis, gold replaced silver for first place. Today's gold medals actually are sterling silver covered with a thin coat of gold. Olympic medals since 1928 have featured the same design on the front: a Greek goddess, the Olympic Rings, the coliseum of ancient Athens, a Greek vase known as an amphora, a horse-drawn chariot, and the year, number of the Olympiad, and host city. The Sydney 2000 Olympics was only the second Olympic Games to be held in the Southern hemisphere. The Olympic torch relay began on 8 June at Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park and arrived at the Olympic Stadium for the opening ceremony on 15 September. It was carried for 100 days through 1000 towns by 10,000 torchbearers. On average 100 torchbearers per day covered 270 kilometers (170 miles) per day, carrying the torch at an average 8,5 km/h (5 mph). Games for all At the first modern Olympic Games there were 311 male but no female competitors. Women were allowed to take part in the next Olympics in Paris. In the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games there were 3543 female competitors. The oldest Olympic athlete at the Sydney Games was a 62-year-old archer representing Vanuatu. But he has some years to go to be the oldest ever Olympian. That title is held by Swedish shooter Oscar Swahn who won his sixth Olympic medal at the 1920 Antwerp Games at the age of 72 years and 280 days old. The youngest ever Olympian is Greek gymnast Dimitrios Loundras, who competed in the 1896 Athens Olympics. He was 10 years old. The Olympic Games is the largest single broadcast event in the world, broadcasted in 220 countries to more than 3.5 bilion people. The first ever perfect score of 10 in Olympic gymnastics was achieved at the 1976 Montreal Olympics by Romanian Nadia Comaneci. She won 3 gold medals. The Sydney Olympic Village accommodated 10,200 competitors and 5,100 officials. The Media Village accommodated 6,000 accredited media representatives. The modern Olympics is the brainchild of Baron Pierre de Coubertin of France. He organised the first modern Olympic Games in Athens, Greece in 1896. A total of 245 athletes from 14 nations competed. (More than 10,000 athletes competed in the Sydney 2000 Olympics.) http://www.didyouknow.com/sport/olympics.htm"}, {"response": 103, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jan 17, 2002 (00:33)", "body": "... It is these heavily indented shores which give Greece such rare beauty, quite unique in the Mediterranean. The length of the Greek coastline is estimated at 15,000 kilometers. The marked variety of the terrain above water continues under water, along the seabed which, millions of years ago, formed a projection of the land. Close to Cape Tainaron, (Tenaro) off the South tip of the Peloponnese, the so-called Oinousai (Inousses) Pit is 4,850 meters deep which is the deepest point in the Mediterranean. http://www.dilos.com/region/index.html"}, {"response": 104, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jan 17, 2002 (00:35)", "body": ""}, {"response": 105, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jan 17, 2002 (22:41)", "body": "*************** Olympic Torch *************** Planning for the 2002 relay began three years. The first Olympic Torch Relay, held during the 1936 Berlin Games when the flame traveled from Olympia, Greece to Berlin, lasted 12 days and covered 1,910 miles across seven countries. The flame is ignited by the sun's rays in Olympia, Greece and is kept in a lantern that travels with the relay. More than 11,500 torchbearers will travel more than 13,500 miles from December 4, 2001 until February 8, 2002. The relay begins at 7:00 a.m. daily with an average of 180 torchbearers carrying the flame about 208 miles over the course of 12 hours. The torch, made of silver, copper, and glass, was designed by Sam Shelton, a mechanical engineering professor at Georgia Institute of Technology. It takes each torchbearer an average of eight minutes to car- ry the torch their 0.2 miles, but there is no time limit. When a torchbearer comes within three to six inches of ano- ther torchbearer, the flame jumps to the other torch. The relay will pass through 46 states, with the exception of Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Hawaii."}, {"response": 106, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Feb 24, 2002 (23:48)", "body": "GREEK SCIENTIST CREATED A 'UNIVERSE' IN THE LABORATORY. (Cultural, Scientific & General News Category) February 2002: Very close to give answers about the mystery of the creation of universe is the Greek professor, Dr. Michalis Tatarakis who came off to create the largest and most powerful laboratory based magnetic field by using the laser technology. The results of his experiments were recently published by the 'Nature', the most known International scientific magazine. The power of the magnetic field created by Dr. Tatarakis is very close to that of the magnetic fields we found in space and more specifically to the 'Neutron Stars' and 'White Dwarfs' which comprise the oddments of the lives of the stars. Dr. Tatarakis aims to create in laboratory conditions the adequate circumstances in order to achieve a perfect stimulation of the creation and the action of those orbs, as much we are able to understand the way and the processes of the creation of the stars and of the universe. At this point, it is worth to point out that laboratory created magnetic fields of such power are ! very important for the creation of high energy electrons directional bonds that are subject to various applications of science and technology. SALT LAKE CITY WINTER OLYMPICS-VERY INTENSE GREEK PRESENCE. (Cultural, Scientific & General News Category) February 2002: The 2002 Winter Olympics started on February 8th in Salt Lake City, USA. During his stay in Utah's capital the Greek Minister for the Culture inaugurated the Greek stand which is situated in Salt Lake City downtown and in which is displayed audiovisual material presenting the 2004 Athens Summer Games preparation and inform the audience about the targets of the Cultural Olympics. The Minister had also proceeded in the unveiling of a Prometheus statue during a symbolic ceremony organized by Greek-Americans. The Minister for the Culture together with the Greek Minister of Foreign Affairs attended a Greek oriented exhibit where they were presented the works of the Greek painter Mina Valyrakis who was voted as the 'Sport Artist of the Year' by the American Sports Federation and of the Greek-American Euripides Kastaris, an artist connecting the Olympic ideal with the 2002 and 2004 Games. On the other hand, the Greek Minister for the Culture had an appointment with t! he president of the Peking 2008 Organizing Committee and discussed the future cooperation between Greece and China concerning the cultural dimension of the Olympics. The Chinese part was very interested about the philosophy of the 2001-2004 Cultural Olympics. In this direction, the president of the Peking 2008 Organizing Committee indicated Greece's knowledge and experience on Cultural Olympics and expressed the willingness of China to be helped by Greece in the organization of cultural exhibits. During the meeting was decided the sign of a protocol of cooperation concerning the Cultural Olympics. ********************************************************************* Greekproducts.com Newsletter#22, February 2002"}, {"response": 107, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 25, 2002 (00:46)", "body": "Aittle late but I find Greece has their own Carnival traditions before Lent: Greek carnival treats 'Apokries' is not just about wearing costumes, food also plays a big partin the festivities - especially barbecued meat CONNIE PHILLIPSON IN GREECE up to the end of World War II and in some villages perhaps well after, carnival season (apokria) was usually celebrated by outdoor events that have long disappeared. But the older people must remember the troupes of mummers dressed in colourful costumes and dancing around a central maypole, from which coloured ribbons held by the revellers were entwined and disentangled in turn. The procession, for such it was when the children of the district got wind of the proceedings, was called to gaitanaki, from the word gaitani, meaning a string or a ribbon. Onlookers, passers-by and people from doors and windows threw coins at the dancers, quickly picked up by the waiting troupe members. Another favourite event was the street puppet show. The \"stage\" was a light wooden frame of a man's height and less than a square metre of area. It supported a piece of cheap cloth that went all around and might have been an old sheet, to hide the performer and enhance the magic of the spectacle. A variety of puppets appeared and disappeared in rapid succession, beating each other up to the point of insensibility, to the utter delight of the children who saw someone else getting beaten for a change. The show was called phasoules, the accent on the last syllable, something like \"the beanstalk\" or Mr Bean - no pun intended. In Thrace, northeastern Greece, a much more serious dramatic performance took place on Monday of the third week of carnival. The performance was called the kalogeroi, which may mean the monks, but in this case it is more likely to be a sardonic reference to the Good Old Men (Kaloi Geroi). The play requires several performers, all men of the village, chosen according to established tradition. The characters are two old men, an old granny and her prematurely born child played by a small log, two young girls or brides, two Gypsies and two policemen. The troupe, appropriately dressed or rather disguised, walks through the village usually accompanied by drums and bagpipes, one of the old men holding a bow made of cornel-wood so fashioned as to shoot ashes instead of arrows, the other old man holding a phallus-like rod - both indicative of their intentions. The play and its preliminaries involve holding up people for ransom, secret assignations and premature births, forceful marriage, ritual murder and magic resurrection, the forging of new ploughs by the Gypsies, and the voiced wishes of the head of the village that may wheat be 20 piastres a measure, barley 3 piastres and rye 5 piastres. Richard Dawkins, former director of the English Archaeological School in Athens, wrote in a 1906 article that every single feature of the play recalls Dionysiac worship. A ceremony designed to influence the forces of nature and the fertilising power of the land. It was perhaps from such lowly beginnings that the tragic drama of the Greeks developed, from which subsequently our theatre and the performing arts took hold. If the elements of the play are as old as Dawkins and other scholars thought, the mention of rye is important. Rye, unlike wheat and barley, is not found in the Greek excavation record. But the wild mountains of Thrace would be the places where rye would outperform both other cereals. What about eating? Well, one can't live on food alone. All you have to remember is that the first week of Carnival is one of preparation. The second week is meat-eating time and especially Thursday, appropriately called Tsiknopempti, smoky-Thursday from the word tsikna, the scent of barbecued meat. The final week is cheese-eating time, to which you may add eggs and milk. The following recipes may be of some help. http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?e=C&f=12950&t=04&m=A40&aa=1"}, {"response": 108, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar  1, 2002 (21:04)", "body": "Greece officially says farewell to drachma 01/03/2002 22:24:13 Greece on Friday officially ended the parallel circulation of the drachma with the euro, leaving the single European currency as the only legitimate currency in the country. The drachma withdrawal procedure was fairly smooth, the Bank of Greece said in a statement, with approximately 2.7 trillion drachmas, or 90 percent of drachma in circulation by the end of 2001, withdrawn from the market by February 28. Drachma was Greece's national currency for the last 169 years, as it was in the past for ancient Athens and other Greek cities. It was issued in 1833 replacing phoenixe, the first currency of the Greek state, to mark Greece's modern history both in times of trouble and prosperity. The drachma was part of a various monetary systems in the past, such as the Latin Monetary Union, the Gold standard, Bretton Woods' foreign exchange system, the European Monetary System's foreign exchange mechanism - a precondition for participating in EMU. The Bank of Greece said it would continue exchanging drachma banknotes for euros for the next 10 years, and drachma coins for the next two years. http://www.ana.gr/"}, {"response": 109, "author": "tsatsvol", "date": "Tue, Mar  5, 2002 (03:20)", "body": "I will try something new here. Please try to hit the play, pause and stop buttons. You will hear popular Greek music, if it is working. If not I am sorry. John"}, {"response": 110, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar  7, 2002 (22:06)", "body": "I am in IE becaue my netscape does not show me your play bar. Lovely music, John! May I have this dance?"}, {"response": 111, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar  7, 2002 (22:15)", "body": "I have had created in Sports conference the topic of The Athens Olympics in 2004 http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/sports/58/new And, for those of you who do not wish to login: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/public/read/sports/58/new"}, {"response": 112, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar  8, 2002 (22:06)", "body": "Translating amorous couplets - A labour of love BY MARK DRAGOUMIS CREDIT should be given where credit is due. A Greek-American Professor, Mr Stylianos V Spyridakis, translated and Aristide D Caratzas published the Mantinades. Selected Love Distichs of Crete. So what? You may ask. So the translations respect both the fifteen syllable metre and the rhyme. That is what. Written mostly during the Venetian period (their name comes from the Italian mattinata, or morning song) in the Cretan vernacular, they blend so successfully old Greek poetic motifs with romantic love that they are still being created and sung at village festivals, weddings, baptisms and other joyful events in Crete. This publication deals only with the 'love distichs' or couplets. The pain and sorrow of unrequited love is vividly portrayed: \"\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd, \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd' \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd'\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd, \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\" (A lonely chapel on the hill, silent and forlorn resembles he who's in love, but from his love is torn.) Here the need to respect the rhyme damages ever so slightly the simplicity of the line about the quandary of the man 'who loves but is not loved'. Note also the assimilation of love with the practice of religion. The man whose love is shunned, is like an empty shell, a chapel on the hill where mass is never celebrated. In a clear reference to romantic love that pledges to last forever and does not even depend on frequent visual contact (this bit is somewhat lost in the translation) the Cretan lover identifies completely with his sweetheart. \"\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd' \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd' \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\" (Living apart, by no means, my love for you belies For I breathe with your breath and see with your eyes.) Interestingly, love is not portrayed only as the soul's tumult that sweeps everything on its path but also as the crowning of a long, close relationship that is more the mark of a successful marriage than the sudden explosion of a coup de foudre. The long, intimate relation between the sand and the sea on the seashore used here to portray a love relation of long standing is quite unusual in Greek folk poetry. \"O\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd' \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd' \ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\" (The seashore draws to its lap the sand day and night Without you I'm miserable, I miss you my delight.) One should not miss the delights of this book. Professor Spyridakis merits a prize of some sort. Is anyone reading this column in the ministry of culture? http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?e=C&f=&t=04&m=A43&aa=5"}, {"response": 113, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar  8, 2002 (22:08)", "body": "*Sigh* Let the eyes for which they mean something feel what I feel. Lovely thoughts!"}, {"response": 114, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar  8, 2002 (22:30)", "body": "The magnificent Greek spring flora Many plants evolve life cycles like dormancy to survive the summer drought BY JENNIFER GAY EACH spring Greece hosts a magnificent display of spring flora - hillsides are a joy to see with carpets of annuals such as anemones, annual daisies, golden dandelions, poppies, chrysanthemum, vetches and anthemis, and bulbs such as ashphodels, crocus, tulips and grape hyacinth (see end of article for botanical and Greek names). What brings about this phenomenon? Why do all the flowers bloom together during spring time? The answer lies quite simply in survival strategies. Many plants have developed ways to survive the summer drought, by evolving plant life cycles that include summer dormancy. Bulbs, corms and tubers survive by spending the summer safely underground; annual plants complete their growth and flowering from autumn to spring and their seeds survive the summer months in a dormant state. Hence, the magnificent floral display in the favourable spring period, before the big summer heat. Bulbs (known in the world of botany as geophytes) have underground food and water stores that allow the plant to escape from the drought. Geophytes are classified according to the part of the plant that acts as a food store. For example, true bulbs, such as the Onion or Lily, adapt their leaves to become a fleshy underground organ that can store food and water. Corms, such as Gladiolus and Crocus, are swollen portions of underground stem. Iris grow from rhizomes, which are in fact horizontal fleshy stems. Begonias sprout from a tuber, a fat underground stem that is shorter and thicker than a rhizome. These underground food stores expand in favourable conditions to produce leaves and flowers. They replenish their resources during the wet season from soil nutrients and also from photosynthesis, the process through which a plant traps sunlight to make food, flowering during late winter and spring. During the hot dry months of late summer, most geophytes become dormant, storing their accumulated food supply while showing little or no sign of life above ground. In autumn or spring plants sprout again in response to favourable conditions of moisture and temperature. These characteristics are well suited for plant survival in drier regions of the Mediterranean climate. Annuals on the other hand, the second main performers in the spring display, have evolved a speedy life cycle; the Mediterranean way of life must suit them, as they are more diverse and abundant in this climate than in any other, with particular success in drier extremes of the climate. On the drier eastern Mediterranean shores of Israel, 50 percent of the total plant species are annuals, and though I could not locate the percentage for Greece, a significant proportion of the plants here are annuals. They create spectacular flower displays, especially in open coastal scrub and grassland, appearing after favourable winter and spring rains. Annuals are also found in woodland and maquis, particularly noted as the first to appear in the succession of plants which follow wildfires. The short life cycle of annuals makes them well adapted to a brief season of rainfall - the seed germinates sometime in autumn or winter. Seedlings grow and produce foliage in winter and early spring, when soil is moist and becoming warmer, and the air temperature is rising. With warmer sunny weather and continued availability of water, the plant concentrates all its energy into first producing flowers, and afterwards, an abundance of seeds. After they are dispersed, seeds from many species can survive for long periods, often for many decades, until moisture, light and temperature conditions are right for germination. So should adverse conditions occur, the seed will wait until better times come their way before it restarts it's cycle of life. Remember it is important not to take wild flowers from the wild, but seed collection from a small sample of a wild population is the best way to introduce these plants to your patch. Just a small sample of the delights of spring include (Botanical names/ Greek names where known): * Anemone (Anemone coronaria/Agriopaparouna/Anemoni, Anemone pavonina/Anemoni Kokkini) * Naples Garlic (Allium neapolitanum/Agrioskordho) * Annual Daisies (Bellis perennis/Stekouli) * Borage (Borago officinalis) * Honeywort (Cerinthe retorta/Nekrolachana, Neroulakia) * Golden Dandelions (Taraxus officinale/Agrioradhiki) * Poppies (Papaver rhoeas/Paparouna) * Crown Daisy (Chrysanthemum coronarium/Tsitsimvola) * Vetches - many, but one of the prettiest and most common is Lathyrus clymenum/Holokouki * Anthemis (Anthemis chia/Papouni/Agriomargarita) * Bulbs such as ashphodels (Asphodelus aestivus/Asphodelos); Star of Bethlehem (Ornithogalum umbellatum/Ornithogalo); Tulips (for example Tulipa undulatifolia/ Toulipa); and Grape Hyacinth (Muscari commutatum/ Mouskari). much more... http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.lst_by_rtopic?e=C&t=04&pt=G&p=M"}, {"response": 115, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar  8, 2002 (22:36)", "body": "Greece shares many similarities with the plants I knew as a child and in Hawaii, both entirely different ecosystems and climates. Euphorbias grow wild and huge in Hawaii. We have many forms of them - some quite like little shrubs and others quite like cacti. How beautiful Greece must be..."}, {"response": 116, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar 14, 2002 (23:33)", "body": "Anti-global monks eye global charts By Giorgos Karahalis - Reuters Greece's most famous boy band, the black-robed Orthodox monks of the Saint Augustine and Seraphim Sarof monastery, are aiming to break into the English-singing music world. Like Latin stars Gloria Estefan in the 1980s and Ricky Martin in the 1990s, who dropped their Spanish tunes for more mainstream English vocals, the monks of \ufffdFree\ufffd have now released their first album containing both Greek and English songs. \ufffdBy Your Side,\ufffd the group's third CD in just two years, which includes a English-language club remix of their chart-topping \ufffdI Learned to Live Free,\ufffd was unveiled at a concert in a packed trendy Athens theater late on Monday. It tops a remarkable rise to fame for a group of monks from central Greece who initially shot to Greek stardom and world attention with the anti-globalization hit \ufffdI Learned to Live Free\ufffd in 2000. \ufffdWe don't know how to sing, we don't know how to dance... but we are free and we are by your side,\ufffd the monastery's abbot and the group's manager Father Nektarios Moulatsiotis said as hundreds of screaming youngsters urged the band to perform. Father Nektarios, the man who convinced his young monks to play music, said the group was using the same tools as the devil to save young people from the temptations of modern life and bring them closer to God. \ufffdWe are by your side with our website, our radio shows, our music,\ufffd he quipped. The group's first CD stormed into the charts and in just a few weeks went platinum with over 60,000 sales but also ruffled the feathers of the Greek Orthodox Church which unsuccessfully made efforts to rein them in. Father Panteleimon, a 30-year-old monk who joined the monastery four years ago, then took the stage with the new English version of their biggest hit. \ufffdI don't want to be their fool no more, to be another living ghost, I'll stand and fight for my soul,\ufffd he sang as more than 700 people joined in. \ufffdWe want to let people outside Greece know what we are about. That's why we translated it into English,\ufffd he said. http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_4345142_14/03/2002_14384"}, {"response": 117, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar 14, 2002 (23:46)", "body": "Kala Enethlia, Giannis"}, {"response": 118, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar 14, 2002 (23:47)", "body": "I aplolgize for being late in my greeting, but we are celebrating your birth for the rest of the month!"}, {"response": 119, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar 15, 2002 (00:16)", "body": "Fortress of flavour - Achaia Clauss' fine wine story The facts and legends behind Greece's oldest winery - through Bavarianrule, two world wars, and the civil war BY JOHN HADOULIS FLANKED by stone towers, the estate's imposing gate and cobbled courtyard look more suited to a central European setting. One can almost imagine the barrels rolling through here to conquer the world. A short uphill stroll into the courtyard leads to a heavy wooden door. Inside lies tradition stretching over more than 130 years. The tradition of Greece's oldest winery. Welcome to Achaia Clauss. The producer of many of Greece's most famous wines, Achaia Clauss has weathered the effects of two world wars, civil war bloodshed and, more recently, financial difficulty to retain its position as a household name worldwide. It is also a landmark visited each year by hundreds of people from both Greece and abroad. They come to sample the wine, walk the grounds and admire the awards and dedications that cover the walls in the main antechamber. Quite an achievement, considering that this entire estate sprang from the vision of one man, and a Bavarian foreigner at that. Gustav Clauss (1825-1908) first came to Greece in 1852. It was a time of Bavarian rule, with Otto I, a scion of Bavaria's royal Wittelsbach family, on the closing years of his reign. Very little is known about Clauss' background, apart from the fact that he was 27 and working for a Patra raisin export company. But there is no doubting the fact that he possessed tremendous energy and determination. Within two years he had purchased six hectares of virgin land in the foothills of Panahaiko mountain outside Patra and had set out to realise his vision of a chateau viticole - a wine-producing estate in the best French style. more... http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?e=C&f=12952&t=06&m=A24&aa=1"}, {"response": 120, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar 15, 2002 (00:31)", "body": "Greek drachma coins to be recycled Athens, 13/03/2002 (ANA) Drachma coins withdrawn from circulation, following the introduction of the euro currency in the country as of January 1, will be recycled through auctions carried out by the ODDY organization. An auction has already taken place for 250 tones of drachma coins during which the ELBAN ABEE company bought 200 tons of coins at 1.30 euros per kilo, while the Neonakis ABBE company bought 50 tons at the price of 1.36 euros per kilo. ODDY is in favor of the reauctioning of all spoilt drachma coins, which, according to assessments by the Bank of Greece, will amount to 9,000 tons. In this context, the organization\ufffds board has already decided to auction 600 tons of coins in Athens and Thessaloniki, determining the auctions' starting prices as well. http://www.hri.org/news/greek/ana/2002/02-03-13.ana.html#17"}, {"response": 121, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar 15, 2002 (00:36)", "body": "How does one \"spoil\" a coin? Especially 9,000 tons of them..."}, {"response": 122, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Mar 18, 2002 (19:18)", "body": "Food conference topic 72 is my newly-created Greek Food topic. http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/food/72/new For our Greek friends we wish you all 'Kala Koulouma':Clean Monday and Kali Sarakosti, the fourty day period before Greek Orthodox Easter"}, {"response": 123, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Mar 30, 2002 (18:43)", "body": "An absolute treasure of a site MUSEUMS OF GREECE http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~ekondrat/greekmuseum.html"}, {"response": 124, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Apr 22, 2002 (17:48)", "body": "PHEVOS AND ATHENA, THE DOUBLE MASCOT OF THE ATHENS 2004 OLYMPIC GAMES. (Cultural, Scientific & General News Category) April 2002: The long awaited mascot of Athens 2004 Olympics was finally known. Indeed, we talk about a double mascot! For the first time in Olympic history we have two mascots in one Olympiad. The names of the two mascots are Phevos and Athena. Phevos and Athena are brother and sister and were created by Mr. Spyros Gogos, a Greek specialist in cartoons and animation. Their creation inspires by an ancient Greek doll and their names come from two ancient Greek Gods; the God Apollo, the Olympian god of light and music, also known as Phevos and Athena, goddess of wisdom and protectress of the ancient city of Athens. In this way, Phevos and Athena represent the link between Greek history and the modern Olympic Games while the two siblings are supposed to be children of today. According to their creator, Phevos and Athena represent the values of Olympism: participation, brotherhood, equality, cooperation and fair play. On the other hand, Athena and Phevos incarnate two dolls reminding us of the pleasure of indulging in games; they highlight that the value of participation is higher than that of victory. At the same time, they are brother and sister, a boy and a girl, symbols of equality and brotherhood around the world. Above all, the two children showcase the everlasting Greek value of human scale and remind us that humanity was, is and will remain at the heart of the Olympic Games. 5. THE 2004 OLYMPIC GAMES CUISINE IN LONDON. (Cultural, Scientific & General News Category) April 2002: During a special exhibition organized by the Hellenic-British Chamber of Commerce and supported by the British Olympic Committee which took place in the Hellenic Center of London representatives of the Athens 2004 Organizing Committee presented the nutrition program of the Athens upcoming Olympics. The exhibition attended representatives of the biggest food companies from Greece and the UK, the Athens 2004 grantors and journalists specialized in nutritional items. The exhibition focused on Greek diet by underlying its beneficial effects for the human health and the symbolic meaning of its use in the Olympics dietary menu was marked also. The exhibition itself was the occasion for the further promotion of the Athens 2004 Organizing Committee's work and in this instance, the Greek diet model comprised Committee's best external evidence. 6. HARVARD TO HOLD SUMMER COURSES IN ANCIENT OLYMPIA. (Cultural, Scientific&General News Category) April 2002: A summer school will be held in Ancient Olympia this year, organized by the Harvard University in cooperation with the 'Center for Ancient Greek Studies' of Patras University and the Municipality of Ancient Olympia. The summer school comprises of seminars for students in their graduate or post-graduate studies, studying classical Greek heritage as well as the broadening of literary, historical, and philosophical pursuits of European cultures. This year there will be 50 participants from all over the world, who will be hosted by the Ancient Olympia Municipality. During this summer school the students will have the opportunity to attend lectures from distinguished professors from foreign and Greek universities. The organizers aim at the continuation of this programme as this to be turned into an institution dedicated to the promotion of Greece as an International training center for culture."}, {"response": 125, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Apr 29, 2002 (22:17)", "body": "I saw this interview. Ex-king tells Larry King of exile The ex-king of Greece, Constantine, pulled a public relations coup over the weekend by appearing on CNN\ufffds Larry King Live show and telling one of television\ufffds top presenters the sorrow of exile. \ufffdI think definitely the worst thing of all is missing your country, missing the people in the country, missing taking your family and showing them the country, seeing your children grow up in your own homeland, living in your own house, being in your own environment,\ufffd Constantine said. The former royal family has lived in England after fleeing Greece in late 1967, when Constantine led a failed countercoup against a junta that he had sworn in that April. \ufffdThe Greek people in 1974 had a referendum. They decided they wanted to have a republic, and that is totally acceptable to me. And I have repeatedly said that I accept the republic and I accept the laws of the land,\ufffd Constantine said. He spoke of the Greek government\ufffds confiscation of his family\ufffds former property and declared that he would definitely be in Greece for the Athens 2004 Olympics. The European Court of Human Rights is in the process of discussing compensation for Constantine\ufffds property at Monodendri in central Greece, Tatoi north of Athens and Mon Repos on Corfu. Constantine said that an evaluation ordered by the government came to $470 million. The response from the Greek government was the same as it has been whenever the former king raises the issue of his property or his own return to Greece. \ufffdThe subject is closed,\ufffd said government spokesman Christos Protopappas, adding that the properties now belonged to the Greek people. \ufffdAll that we are discussing now is compensation. And we are determined to defend the Greek people\ufffds interests in this,\ufffd he added. http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_4704714_29/04/2002_15955"}, {"response": 126, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Apr 29, 2002 (22:28)", "body": "*SIGH* AP Two spectators are silhouetted against a full moon during the AEK-Olympiakos Greek Cup final at Athens's Olympic Stadium on Saturday night. AEK beat the Piraeus team 2-1 for the 12th title in the Athens squad's history."}, {"response": 127, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May  4, 2002 (01:09)", "body": "Pardon my \"Greeklish\""}, {"response": 128, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May  4, 2002 (01:15)", "body": "pardon my Greeklish... Kalo Paska"}, {"response": 129, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May  4, 2002 (02:18)", "body": "Sun shines on massive Easter exodus - Largest departure in decade The largest exodus of the last few years is underway, with Athenians fanning out across the country to celebrate the Orthodox Easter and the spring weather. Traffic police are out in force to deal with the hundreds of thousands of cars on the roads. Extra ships, planes, trains and buses have been scheduled to deal with the huge demand. Driving home the message \ufffdLet\ufffds all leave but let\ufffds all come back,\ufffd traffic police are patrolling highways and provincial roads, working to ease congested points and to keep unruly drivers in line in what they say is the biggest exodus in a decade. A police helicopter will be coordinating ground forces along the Athens-Corinth and Athens-Thessaloniki highways. Police said yesterday that traffic was up by more than 40 percent over the previous year and was expected to reach its peak this afternoon. An extra lane has been given over to outbound traffic and trucks of over 1.5 tons have been banned from many segments of highway during the exodus. Traffic in the port of Piraeus was up 40 percent yesterday with regard to vehicles and 50 percent with regard to passengers. Since the previous Saturday, 120,000 passengers had left via the port of Piraeus and another 18,000 from Rafina, an increase of 55 percent from last year. Tickets for islands near Athens were non-existent days ago, while ships for other destinations are 90-percent full. Only people who already have tickets will be allowed into harbor areas and travelers are advised to arrive at least an hour before the ship\ufffds scheduled departure time, as the ports are jammed with traffic. Airlines are operating at capacity and Olympic Airways has scheduled larger-than-usual planes on domestic routes. The Hellenic Railways Organization, operating at 90-percent capacity, has added more carriages and more trains. The good weather is expected to get even better. Sunny weather is forecast across the country, with only a brief interval of scattered showers likely on Sunday in the northern Ionian, Epirus and western Macedonia. From Monday, the weather will be very sunny, with temperatures reaching 30 degrees Celsius. http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100013_03/05/2002_16092"}, {"response": 130, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May  4, 2002 (02:22)", "body": "A tale of two cultures - Tarnished ideals and skepticism color some Greeks\ufffd views of the 2004 Olympics By John Ross - Kathimerini English Edition Easter links Christendom as do few other events. The slow and painful death of Christ on the cross, and the miraculous story of the resurrection afterward, is about as central a tenet to the Christian faith as they come. It is celebrated in spring, another timely reminder that life springs eternal. Yet any Westerner in Greece during Megali Evdomada (Holy Week) needs no reminding that Easter also accentuates the dissimilarities between the Occidental and Orthodox Christian worlds. In Greece, even in 2002, you really feel it, feel the quiet heaviness, hear the slow tolling of the bells, see the normally disinclined flock to church daily, sense the absence of lighthearted activities. All this peaks this evening, Good Friday, with the mournful carrying of the Epitapheios around town and city neighborhoods, followed by the faithful bearing candles. Just as Britain and America are separated by an ocean and a language, so too does the Orthodox Easter Week contrast with the brief, chocolate-rabbit-and-jelly-bean-based one in the West. The two Easters are separated by differences in customs but a gulf in meaning and scale, if not exactly on the scale of Samuel Huntington's \ufffdClash of Civilizations.\ufffd And this year's five-week gap between the two has merely underscored this reality. Late March is still late winter; by early May it's practically summertime. Easter is scarcely the Olympics, and, in fact, offers a welcome break from preparing for (and reading about) Games over two years away. But Easter's dual role as both a bridge and a divider between the two worlds offers a lesson for understanding the continuing hesitancy by many Greeks to embrace the coming Games with abandon. This theme was taken up a few weeks ago; now I'll resurrect it again, hard as it is to try to look into a nation's soul and then express what you see (though somebody's got to do the dirty work). Natural skepticism Skepticism may be the most useful description for a large segment of Greek opinion - a term which, building on this theme of duality, itself has a dual meaning. In English, \ufffdskeptical\ufffd means dubious or doubtful of any received wisdom, but its Greek equivalent is closer to investigation or thought, learning by means of questioning, assuming the absence of absolute knowledge (skeptikos = thoughtful, pensive). And the word even has quasi-Olympic connections. A Skeptic was a member of the eponymous school of ancient Greek thought - associated with Pyrrho of Elis, who lived in the 4th-3rd centuries BC. Elis was the province in the northeastern Peloponnese where ancient Olympia was located. By accident of geography if nothing else, the ancient Olympians were skeptics of the purest kind, it seems. In a fitting link across the centuries, their modern descendants, scattered around this ancient land but concentrated to an excessive degree in the Attic basin, have been reluctant to embrace the Games that will increasingly dominate public life until late 2004. Undoubtedly, many are just fed up with the practicalities of preparing: the ever-present construction sites, dust, traffic, squabbling politicians, and heavy costs. Even so, something else is at work too; despite the strenuous efforts made by Athens 2004 and undeniable progress in recent months, and in spite of what's involved, many who aren't opposed are yawning. Why? Much of the reason is likely abstract or metaphysical as opposed to something specific or concrete. In terms of the Olympics, at least, Greeks are Platonists at heart, not Aristotelians; they are true believers who question others' interpretations, and their belief (but also skepticism) is deeply rooted and fundamental, not just based on relativist logic. Their concern also relates to what the Olympics themselves mean. It works something like this. The Olympics were born here and helped delineate the ancient Greek world for nearly a millennium in a locational, religious/pilgrimage, architectural, and even war-and-peace kind of way that long predated their athletic component. Classical education's decline means that fewer and fewer Greeks (not to mention others) know the details of their ancient culture, but that doesn't matter at all in this context. In fact, the sloughing-off of the detail merely reinforces the Olympics' value as a generalized ideal. They are central to the national treasury and national psyche, much more (because of their great duration) than even pivotal events for countries in the West, where names like Hastings, Valley Forge, and Bastille have achieved near-universal, quasi-mythical recognition in people's minds and hearts. In 1896, the Olympics were revived out of this mix of fact and legend, developed in an age of nationalism, and expanded further in a postwar world of dizzying economic growth and the blending of commercial with political life. The contempor"}, {"response": 131, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, May  9, 2002 (23:48)", "body": "Greeks almost at the bottom of EU's book readers, Eurobarometer report says BRUSSELS, 08/05/2002 (ANA - B. Demiris) Greeks rank second to last of the 15 European Union member-state counterparts in reading books, newspapers and magazines, they do not often go to the movies, but are avid dancers , a Eurobarometer report published on Tuesday noted. The report entitled ''Europeans and Culture'' also said that Greeks are the most likely European Union citizens to listen to their national music and go to concerts of traditional and local popular music. The report was compiled by an opinion poll with the participation of 16,162 Europeans of which 1,001 Greeks and it was conducted between August 22 and September 27, 2001. Specifically, the Portuguese, the Greeks and the Spaniards are the least likely Europeans to read books, only 32 per cent of the Portuguese, 45 per cent of the Greeks and 47 per cent of the Spaniards responded that they did read at least one book over the past one year. Swedes came first with 80 per cent having declared that they read at least one book over the last year, while Fins came second with 75 per cent and the Britons third with 74 per cent, when the European Union average was 60 per cent. http://www.gogreece.com/news/headlines/story.html?id=4300"}, {"response": 132, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May 12, 2002 (18:31)", "body": "THE CELEBRATION OF NAMEDAYS IN GREECE by Gary Van Haas Namedays are a special and important part of Greek life because the very names themselves go back to the very beginning of Greek culture. Coming down to us through the ages are the marvelous names of heroes, saints and mythological figures such as the mighty Herakles, Odyessus, Alexander, Socrates, Plato, Constantine, Helen and many many more. Of course they go on, and on and in fact, many of them have changed little over time and are still used today. For instance, the name 'Ioannis' is the derivative of 'John', and 'Maria' the root for Mary. All these names and more are all derived from the original Greek. In the beginning of the Greek Orthodox religion, these celebrations were mainly observed as 'saint's days, but later became individual 'namedays'. All in all, namedays now are considered much more important than a person's actual birthday. In most cases, it is a tradition now in Greece, that when a person has a nameday, he or she gives a party where refreshments such as coffee, cake, liquor and hors d' oeuvres are offered to friends and acquaintances alike. In the work place, it's a little more subdued, but the nameday person still offers something like sweets or cakes. With small children, the nameday becomes a more of a celebration where a festive party is usually given, which continues every year up until about the age of twelve. During a nameday, it's always a good idea to call your friends to wish them 'chronia polla', or 'have a good year' as a sign of appreciation, and at this point in the conversation, your friend will usually let you know if he's having a nameday party or not at his house. If he is and you are invited, whatever you do, don't come empty handed because it's customary to take along a gift. Usually a box of sweets, flowers or a plant will do. In some cases, you can even have the plant delivered if you can't get to the florist. Another good idea is to bring along some wine, liquor, or a more personal gift if you wish, depending on how well you know the person. In business it's always good to remember namedays as a sign of mutual respect for bosses and workers alike. In fact, many business people these days send telegrams to associates and clients on their nameday as a way of keeping up good public relations. All in all, namedays are a fun and charming aspect of Greece which are celebrated with more flare in the small towns and villages. http://www.gogreece.com/learn/namedays.htm"}, {"response": 133, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May 12, 2002 (18:34)", "body": "I definitely need to pay more attention to John's name day. I came empty-handed!"}, {"response": 134, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May 12, 2002 (23:57)", "body": "Conference on internationalisation of Greek language 12/05/2002 22:38:09 Scores of ''neo-Hellenists'' from the five continents have scheduled a crusade at world level with the purpose of internationalising the Greek language. University rectors and professors, researchers, secondary education teachers, scholars, historians and journalists were mobilised to achieve the ''passing'' of the Greek language as official at all European and world forums. The world linguistics conference held in Kavala, northern Greece, under the auspices of Ecumenical Patriarch Vartholomeos was attended by university, academy and institute representatives from the United States and many European countries. All speakers said in their addresses that the initiative to internationalise the Greek language has already started to meet with a response. http://www.hri.org/news/greek/apeen/2002/02-05-12.apeen.html"}, {"response": 135, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, May 16, 2002 (00:04)", "body": "A new Athens due by 2004 The Athens that will host the 2004 Olympics will be a vastly different city to the Athens of today, said a government spokesman after Prime Minister Costas Simitis, Athens 2004 chief Gianna Angelopoulos-Daskalaki and ministers involved in the Olympic effort met yesterday to discuss the capital and its 610-million-euro makeover. \ufffdThe image and operation of the city, especially during the Olympic Games, is the essence of the Games themselves and also the source of impressions that the local resident and the Olympic visitor will come away with,\ufffd Olympic spokesman Telemachos Hytiris said. \ufffdThe Athens of 2004 will be nothing like the Athens of 2000.\ufffd According to the plan, an estimated 20,000 billboards will be torn down (of which 800 are already gone), trees will be planted around stadiums and on major thoroughfares leading up to them, buildings will be renovated, new street signs will be set up, traffic will be reorganized and pedestrian walkways will be completed around archaeological sites. http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100008_15/05/2002_16431"}, {"response": 136, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May 26, 2002 (22:33)", "body": "I also live in a resort destination whose economy depends to a great extent on tourism. But this article I found about Greece also applies to Hawaii and world wide destinations. It is worth reading: Do's & Dont's As in any country, there are certain do's and don'ts in Greece. Many times, a foreigner might think some of these customs strange or may disagree with them, but we should all respect a country's ways when we visit it. DRESS CODE Even though Greece's archbishop Christodoulos has stated that anyone is welcome in the Greek-orthodox churches (\"come as you are\" is a well known quote by him) people should not show too much naked skin. In monasteries women have to cover their shoulders and wear long skirts, and men must wear long trousers. It is sad to see holidaymakers walking into churches and monasteries wearing swimsuits or women covering shoulders wearing a bikinitop. Greeks are in general well-dressed, and you should just think what you would wear in a holy place at home. Religious or not, most people find it reasonable not to walk into any kind of church half-naked. As a guide, I have sometimes been asked by concerned or curious holidaymakers about how the Greeks see them walking around in bikinis or just shorts and nothing else. Most people will have noticed on holiday in Greece that the Greeks themselves almost never walk around that way except on beaches. The answer is quite simple. Imagine people walking around in bikinis or shorts with bare upper parts of the body in your own hometown or city. It would look a bit strange, wouldn't it. Its got nothing to do with weather. The Greek believe beachwear belong on the beach and nowhere else. They live and work on the holiday-resorts, surrounded by classmates, colleagues, family and friends. Now, as far as the tourists are concerned, they understand our longing for the sun and how we want to relax when on holiday, but they sometimes think we are a little bit vulgar. But we are excused, we're foreigners! much more... http://www.in2greece.com/english/factstrivia/facts/do_dont.htm"}, {"response": 137, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May 26, 2002 (22:35)", "body": "From the same resource (a true treasure for people like me) The Greek Language Have you ever tried saying something in Greek to the waiter only to be totally embarrassed when he, instead of smilingly show his appreciation, corrects you: \"it's kalimEEEra, not kalIIIImera\". Or when you finally pick up the courage to say that horrible word for thank you, and the Greek person opposite you goes \"NA EISTE KALA\" and you have no idea what to reply. Well, these pages will not give you proper lessons just yet. But there is quite a bit to learn here. The Greek language is the mother of almost all Western languages, and the roots haven't gone away. Many names we use are originally Greek (Philip, Catherine) and if you click on \"Common Words\" you will find a list of words we use today that are actually Greek. ***WHAT IS THE GREEK WORD FOR 'THANK YOU' ???***"}, {"response": 138, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Mon, Jul 21, 2008 (21:21)", "body": "Greece basketball team has qualified for the Olympics in the same bracket with the USA, China, Angola, Germany, Spain. Germany has Dallas Mavs Dirk Nowitzki. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 41, "subject": "Spring Break", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (16:17)", "body": "...and take your hurricane insurance with you??? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 42, "subject": "Mali", "response_count": 40, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Oct 28, 1999 (16:23)", "body": "This image Maggie will explain in her next post:"}, {"response": 2, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (14:06)", "body": "Is this where you're going to be staying and working, Maggie?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (14:39)", "body": "This is a view looking across the city of Bamako, capital of Mali, from one of the hills surrounding the city. You can just about see the River Niger in the background. I stayed on the other bank of the river. It's really quite a low level city with most buildings being two floors. The odd high buildings are usually banks or hotels. I think I need to continue experimenting with the pictures - the photo is really much better than this! I'm still learning so be patient with me."}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (14:50)", "body": "Maggie, if you cannot send me the image the size you want posted, it is better to send me one that is too alrge and let me shrink it than the other way around. Enlarging often distorts and makes grainy any photo. The above photo was so small I had to enlarge it to tell just what it was I was seeing."}, {"response": 5, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Oct 29, 1999 (14:51)", "body": "...too large..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Feb 12, 2000 (10:24)", "body": "After not succeeding (so far) with my photos - here's site that has lots. Go to www.tearfund.org and click on the timbuktoo travelogue button on the far bottom left. When I get time I'll work on photos again."}, {"response": 7, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Feb 12, 2000 (13:46)", "body": "Mali has more archeological sites than any other African country except Egypt-it is a poor country with an extremely rich heritage. For centuries it was a crossroads: Caravans crisscrossed the region during the days of the ancient kingdoms of Ghana, Mali and Songhai. Slaves, gold and ivory were brought from the south and traded in the Middle East and Europe for weapons, jewelry and copper. Mali drew people from all corners of the globe and was a center of learning, with a university that boasted 25,000 students. When merchant ships replaced the caravans in the 17th century, the trade routes collapsed and the region was forgotten (except, perhaps, for Timbuktu, which became synomous with remoteness). Only recently have archaeologists begun to explore Mali's rich history. Mali, however, is more than ancient artifacts. It contains within its borders the division between the tropics of West Africa and the arid northern region. The culture mix makes for a colorful population, while the geographical variety accounts for the country's beauty. Given the diversity, Mali would be the destination we'd choose if we could make only one stop in West Africa. Intensive European involvement in Mali's affairs began about 100 years ago, when it became a French colony. The colonialists encouraged the raising of cash crops, such as cotton, at the expense of food crops, a situation not wholly rectified today. After gaining independence in 1960, Mali adopted socialist, anti-Western policies. Increasing economic turmoil, however, led to a 1968 military coup. The military ruled until March 1991, when riots toppled the government. Mali then switched to a half-military, half-civilian government, which lasted until elections could be held in 1992. To the pleasant surprise of many, the military stepped down and allowed former editor and government critic Alpha Konate to take his place as Mali's first democratically elected president. Landlocked Mali is the largest country in West Africa. It is geographically dominated by the Niger River (from ghir nigheren, river of rivers), which provides irrigation for much of the country. Desert and rugged hills in the north give way to the Sahel (arid, flat plains with scrub brush) in the center and marginal cropland in the south-only in the extreme south is there sufficient rain for crops. About 80% of its land is desert or semidesert and only 2% is arable. Traveler's Advisory: Mali continues to experience problems with bandits on the main highways and near big cities, particularly in the northern part of the country. The road to Gao, the overland route to Timbuktu and private drives farther north than Duenza are still unsafe-bandits have been setting up roadblocks and taking people's money and personal belongings. Visitors should travel in groups and avoid travel at night. Pickpockets and purse snatchings are common in Bamako and other cities. The best time to visit is November-February, during the cool, dry season. Travel can be difficult during the rainy season (June-September), but the rivers are high and the scenery is lush. The hottest time is March-June, when temperatures are high. Beginning in October, the harmattan, an arid trade wind from the northeast, blows sand, grit and dry air across the country. There are paved roads from the capital to Mopti, Douentza, Sikasso, Bougouni and Koutiala. Most of the roads between Mali and neighboring countries are unpaved. The unpaved roads are impassable in the rainy season, and it's possible to drive to Senegal only December-May (Dakar is 930 mi/1,500 km away). Bus service is available from Kankan, Guinea, to Bamako; from Bobo Dioulasso, Burkina Faso, to Segou and Mopti; and Niamey, Niger, to Gao. Some do's and don'ts Do get to know the Malians. They are fun and friendly people...Do agree upon a price before getting into a taxi...Don't wear shorts-on a woman, they're considered insulting and on men, foolish. Do dress comfortably, in loose-fitting clothes, as Mali is hot! But don't forget a sweater for desert evenings. Don't bother with a coat and tie unless you plan to go to the most exclusive clubs...Don't give or take anything with the left hand-it would be shockingly rude...Do plan ahead and change money in the larger cities. In smaller locales, you can't change money...Don't count on using your credit card outside the two largest hotels in Bamako...Don't be surprised if you get hassled for taking photos in remote areas. Even though photography permits are no longer required, some officials still are not aware of the change...Do try the strong, sweet Malian tea. The traditional three rounds of tea facilitate friendly conversation...Do give a little spare change to blind or crippled beggars. It's the way they survive, and they'll reward you with a breathless string of blessings...Do greet adults you encounter, paying particular respect to age. Don't greet children...Don't be shocked to see men in Djenne applying makeup, opening their eyes very wid"}, {"response": 8, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Feb 12, 2000 (14:16)", "body": "Wow!!! Lots of interesting stuff here. I still have the other pix from you. When I figure out how to do things, I hope to restore them to their former glory."}, {"response": 9, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Feb 12, 2000 (15:29)", "body": "Just think what I'll bring back next time!!!!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Feb 12, 2000 (15:56)", "body": "Now, That IS exciting to contemplate. We'll be ready for you - and nothing contageous, please!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (11:18)", "body": "Dogon Theory of Creation The Dogon people are an indigeous tribe who occupy a region in Mali, south of the Sahara Desert in Africa. They live in the Homburi Mountains near Timbuktu. They are believed to be of Egyptian descent. After living in Libya for a time, they settled in Mali, West Africa, bringing with them astronomy legends dating from before 3200 BCE. In the late 1940s, four of their priests told two French anthropologists of a secret Dogon myths about the star Sirius (8.6 light years from the earth). The priests said that Sirius had a companion star that was invisible to the human eye. They also stated that the star moved in a 50-year elliptical orbit around Sirius, that it was small and incredibly heavy, and that it rotated on its axis. Sirius - which we now call Sirius A - was not seen through a telescope until 1862 and was not photographed until 1970. The Dogon name for Sirius B (Po Tolo) consists of the word for star (tolo) and \"po,\" the name of the smallest seed known to them. By this name they describe the star's smallness -- it is, they say, \"the smallest thing there is.\" They also claim that it is \"the heaviest star,\" and white. The Dogon thus attribute to Sirius B its three principle properties as a white dwarf: small, heavy, white. They go on to say that it has an is elliptical orbit, with Sirius A at one foci of the ellipse (as it is), that the orbital period is 50 years (the actual figure is 50.04 +/- 0.09 years), and that the star rotates on its own axis (it does). The Dogon also describe a third star in the Sirius system, called \"Emme Ya\" (\"Sorghum Female\"). In orbit around this star, they say, is a single satellite. To date, Emme Ya has not been identified by astronomers. In addition to their knowledge of Sirius B, the Dogon mythology includes Saturn's rings, and Jupiter's four major moons. They have four calendars, for the Sun, Moon, Sirius, and Venus, and have long known that planets orbit the sun. The Dogon say their astronomical knowledge was given to them by the Nommos, amphibious beings sent to Earth from Sirius for the benefit of mankind. The name comes from a Dogon word meaning \"to make one drink,\" and the Nommos are also called Masters of the Water, the Monitors, and the Teachers. Nommos The Dogon tells the legend of the Nommos, awful-looking beings who arrived in a vessel along with fire and thunder. After they arrived here - they put out a reservoir of water onto the Earth then dove into the water. There are references in the oral traditions, drawings and cuneiform tablets of the Dogons, to human looking beings who have feet but who are portrayed as having a large fish skin running down their bodies. The Nommos were more fishlike than human, and had to live in water. They were saviors and spiritual guardians: \"The Nommo divided his body among men to feed them; that is why it is also said that as the universe \"had drunk of his body,\" the Nommo also made men drink. He gave all his life principles to human beings.\" The Nommo was crucified and resurrected and in the future will again visit the Earth, this time in human form. Later he will assume his amphibious form and will rule the world from the waters. Dogon mythology is known only by a number of their priests, and is a complex system of knowledge. Such carefully guarded secrets would not be divulged to friendly strangers very easily. If the star Emme Ya is eventually discovered in the Sirius system, this would give considerably weight to the Dogon's story. The Nommos, who could live on land but dwelled mostly in the sea, were part fish, like merfolk (mermaids and mermen). Similar creatures have been noted in other ancient civilizations -- Babylonia's Oannes, Acadia's Ea, Sumer's Enki, and Egypt's goddess Isis. It was from the Nommos that the Dogon claimed their knowledge of the heavens. The Dogon also claimed that a third star (Emme Ya) existed in the Sirius system. Larger and lighter than Sirius B, this star revolved around Sirius as well. And around it orbited a planet from which the Nommos came. (Sirius A)."}, {"response": 12, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (11:37)", "body": "Oh Maggie! Thank you for this. How did they know about this so long before modern instruments confirmed it?!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (12:20)", "body": "There's quite a bit on this if you look oin the WWW. Some of it's cranky psuedoastrological stuff, but this one seemed quirew balanced. It's certainly mysterious, I wonder if it's akin to the discussion we've been having in Geo on ley lines etc. Lost knowledge?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (13:00)", "body": "Maggie, I am sure it is and it definitely belongs on Geo 27. Would you do us the honor? Fantastic food for thought!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (15:00)", "body": "Interesting about the crucified deity who will come again. Sounds familiar...!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (10:49)", "body": "From the British Foreign Office - just in case anyone was thinking of visiting!!! In recent weeks there have been an increasing number of violent incidents in Northern Mali. Western aid workers have been the subject of attack. Exteme caution should be exercised if travelling north of Mopti. If travelling overland consult the British Consul in Bamako before setting out, travel in groups, and avoid travelling at night and keep to the main roads. We advise against travel in the Kayes region near the border with Mauritania and in the area near the border with Niger. Medical facilities in Mali are poor. Visitors should take out comprehensive medical insurance, including the cost of repatriation and should carry basic medical supplies."}, {"response": 17, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (16:04)", "body": "What? Not burial insurance??? Think I'll stay where there's a semi-steady volcano erupting. It sounds scary there, indeed...in case anyone thought crime was really bad in your neighborhood...!"}, {"response": 18, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (16:15)", "body": "It's actually very patchy. Bamako itself felt very safe compared to other places we've been in. The north has been difficult for a long while. I'll be based in Bamako and out from there."}, {"response": 19, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (17:11)", "body": "Please be careful when you go. You are part of me, now!"}, {"response": 20, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (07:03)", "body": "*smile!* appreciate that"}, {"response": 21, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Mar 11, 2000 (02:13)", "body": "MALI: Military patrol hunting tourists' killer Four men suspected of killing three Dutch tourists near Tessalit, a remote desert locale some 2,000 km north of Bamako, have been arrested and an army patrol was hunting for a fifth suspect, a military information source in Mali told IRIN on Thursday. The official daily newspaper, 'L'Essor', said the victims, whose names it gave as Ferdinand Smit, Aardi Tenboogaard and J. Jsint, had had their throats cut. The military source told IRIN that security forces found their bodies near the border with Algeria. News reports said the three had driven from Algeria and had left Tessalit on 25 February for the south Malian town of Gao."}, {"response": 22, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Mar 13, 2000 (16:29)", "body": "This happened in Kenya, but Maggie...are you sure you want to return?! Scores Hurt in Church Brawl NAIROBI (Reuters) - Scores of worshippers were hurt in a brawl over church leadership during Sunday prayers at a Kenyan Church, local newspapers reported. The Kenya Times said it took the intervention of police to stop part of the congregation from strangling a pastor appointed to take control of the running of the Buru Buru Church of God in the capital Nairobi. ``For over four hours, the congregation booed, insulted and heckled Reverend James Omumia,'' the newspaper said. ``Scores of faithful ... were left seriously injured when a free-for-all fist fight erupted.'' The People newspaper said members of the congregation also turned their backs on the pulpit when Omumia attempted to continue with his service.'' The church has been divided into rival congregations by a dispute over its management after church elders dismissed some leaders on charges of financial irregularity."}, {"response": 23, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Jul  2, 2000 (14:14)", "body": "MALI: Improving rural infrastructure The World Bank has agreed to lend Mali's government US $115.1 million to help it reduce poverty and strengthen basic rural infrastructure. The funds will go to a 10-year National Rural Infrastructure Project designed to improve irrigation, rehabilitate roads, and supply clean water and sanitation services to rural areas, the World Bank reported. It said the governments of Mali and The Netherlands, along with the beneficiaries, would contribute US $22.7 million to the project, which also aims to increase food security through higher, sustainable and more reliable farm production.Over the past 30 years, Mali has experienced declining and erratic rainfall and increased desertification. Severe droughts in the 1980s have left an estimated 1.4 million rural residents highly vulnerable to food shortages, the World Bank noted. [More information is available at: www.worldbank.org/developmentnews]"}, {"response": 24, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Aug 25, 2000 (06:39)", "body": "Cross posted from Geo 28 Another Malian creation story for you. African creation stories are as varied and imaginative as elsewhere in the world. According to nearly all African mythologies, God first agreed to give man eternal life, but his message was perverted through the stupidity or malice of the messenger. Several hundred African variants of the myth of the perverted message are known. http://africancultures.about.com/culture/africancultures/library/extras/myths/blcreation.htm Fulani of Mali Creation Myth http://africancultures.about.com/culture/africancultures/library/extras/myths/blfulani.htm At the beginning there was a huge drop of milk. Then Doondari came and created the stone. Then the stone created iron; And iron created fire; And fire created water; And water created air. Then Doondari descended the second time. And he took the five elements And he shaped them into man. But man was proud. Then Doondari created blindness and blindness defeated man. But when blindness became too proud, Doondari created sleep, and sleep defeated blindness; But when sleep became too proud, Doondari created worry, and worry defeated sleep; But when worry became too proud, Doondari created death, and death defeated worry. But when death became too proud, Doondari descended for the third time. And he came as Gueno, the eternal one, And Gueno defeated death. (Eng. trans. by Ulli Beier in The Origin of Life and Death, 1966)"}, {"response": 25, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Aug 25, 2000 (06:49)", "body": "Well, my ticket is booked for October 19th. We expect to be back in the UK sometime in March 2001. I'll be based in Bamako as before and will probably become a very familiar figure in one of the schools there which has welcomed us with open arms. We'll be doing a lot of filming in classes this time. Trnasport will be a worry again, as we'll have to borrow (and pay mileage) a vehicle to get most places. the walk to the taxi rank to get into town is about a mile away from where we are staying, along hot dusty walk. We have a similar walk the other end to get a taxi back. we'll do that each time we go into the government office where my malian co-researcher works. My husband will act as chaparone again - and general factotum! He's a good lad!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Aug 25, 2000 (16:33)", "body": "If you're interested in african history/archeology, go look at the archeological dig at jenne in Mali. http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~anth/arch/mali-interactive/index.html there's some good Mali info there too"}, {"response": 27, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Aug 25, 2000 (17:23)", "body": "Thanks, Maggie. I'm off to look..."}, {"response": 28, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Aug 25, 2000 (18:52)", "body": "Yikes, Maggie!!! You will have your aerobics without even trying just getting about the country! Please don't feed the lions!"}, {"response": 29, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Aug 26, 2000 (03:54)", "body": "Lions tend to be East African, although I did hear of the occasional one in Senegal. Hyenas are more of a problem..... Seriously I don't know what I'll do about exercise .... we can go walking (together, not on my own), the Centre we'll stay at has several floors so I can run steps, and I plan to take a skipping rope. We thought we'd see if any of the fancy hotels has a gym we could use (at a price...), they do let residents use their swimming pools if you pay a fee. The biggest difficulty (apart from health and transport) that I see is that of finding recreation. I pretty well read through the small 'left behind' books library on the Centre last year (in 7 weeks), and at the rate I read that's going to be a problem ....Maybe I'm going to need to get friends to post books and magazines out to me.....I've bought a few computer games which I am steeling myself not even to look at before we go (very difficult ....). We like old fashioned quest type role playing games ...I'm also packing a few ordinary games like travel scrabble. Apart from that the only thing I can think of to do is go out and eat. Bamako has a range of restaurants,and we tried a few of them last time. This time we will need to do more entertaining and have people over for meals. That means I need to remember how to cook!!! ...and take some cook books with me...."}, {"response": 30, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Sep  5, 2000 (05:42)", "body": "Here's some Mali info for you:from http://www.maps.com Geographic Coordinates 17 00 N, 4 00 W Area Total Area 1.24 million sq km Land Area 1.22 million sq km Comparative Area slightly less than twice the size of Texas Climate subtropical to arid; hot and dry February to June; rainy, humid, and mild June to November; cool and dry November to February -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Terrain mostly flat to rolling northern plains covered by sand; savanna in south, rugged hills in northeast Lowest Point Senegal River 23 m Highest Point Hombori Tondo 1,155 m Natural Resources gold, phosphates, kaolin, salt, limestone, uranium, bauxite, iron ore, manganese, tin, and copper deposits are known but not exploited Geographic Note landlocked -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Population 9,653,261 (July 1996 est.) Population Growth Rate 2.95% (1996 est. Birth Rate 51.38 births/1,000 population (1996 est.) Death Rate 19.49 deaths/1,000 population (1996 est.) Infant Mortality 102.7 deaths/1,000 live births (1996 est.) Life Expectancy At Birth Total Population 46.84 years Male 45.12 years Female 48.6 years (1996 est.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ethnic Divisions Mande 50% (Bambara, Malinke, Sarakole), Peul 17%, Voltaic 12%, Songhai 6%, Tuareg and Moor 10%, other 5% Religions Muslim 90%, indigenous beliefs 9%, Christian 1% Languages French (official), Bambara 80%, numerous African languages -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Literacy age 15 and over can read and write (1995 est.) Total Population 31% Male 39.40% Female 23.10% -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name of Country Conventional Long Form Republic of Mali Conventional Short Form Mali Local Long Form Republique de Mali Local Short Form Mali Former Name French Sudan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Type of Government republic Capital Bamako Independence 22 September 1960 (from France) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GDP purchasing power parity - $5.4 billion (1994 est.) GDP Real Growth Rate 2.4% (1994 est.) GDP Per Capita $600 (1994 est.) GDP Composition By Sector Agriculture 42.40% Industry 15.40% Services 42.20% Currency 1 Communaute Financiere Africaine franc (CFAF) = 100 centimes (800) 929-4MAP (4627) | info@maps.com | Online Privacy Policy \ufffd2000 Maps.com. All rights reserved"}, {"response": 31, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Sep  5, 2000 (15:03)", "body": "Fascinating. They have a longer life span than some places, but still far too young! Infant mortality is due to??? You have your work cut out for you if it is only 1% Christian...or does that not matter??? What does the word, Mali, mean???"}, {"response": 32, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Sep  6, 2000 (02:54)", "body": "Scroll up to post 7 here..... Mali = hippo in Bambara (the language I will be continuing to learn....) Bamako (the capital and where I shall be living) = crocodiles in Bambara Not sure why the high infant mortality rate, apart from poverty, it may also have a regional basis. The north is very arid and the people ther are mainly nomadic. Burkina Faso (which has an enormous mortality rate) and Malawi are the only other African countries with a higher infant mortality rate than Mali. Haven't seen any detail on mortality rates. Mali is a muslim country and anyone working there needs to understand the implications of that. Where I am working people seem very open to discussion. In the north, things are different."}, {"response": 33, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Thu, Sep 14, 2000 (11:14)", "body": "Cross posted from Cultures 29 Wednesday September 13, 5:26 PM http://uk.news.yahoo.com/000913/80/aj6vw.html Inside look at African music scene and daily life By Gary Hill NEW YORK (Reuters) - A new book and CD, both titled \"In Griot Time,\" by American writer and musician Banning Eyre offer a unique inside look at daily life on the music scene in the West African country of Mali. It was Mali's melodic, hypnotic music, increasingly popular overseas and believed at home to have secret powers when sung by \"griots,\" that drew Eyre to study with master guitarist Djelimady Tounkara, but even readers with no special interest in the music may find the book fascinating. \"In Griot Time\" is not exactly travel writing but its deft, novelistic descriptions of smells and tastes, sunny outdoor guitar lessons and murky late-night dive-bar visits, the central market teeming by day and eerily deserted at night, all evoke the rich colours and textures of African life. \"There's a story here that's got some more universality to it for anyone who's curious about another culture, anyone who's curious enough to breach the lines and go in,\" Eyre, 43, who lived for seven months in Tounkara's family compound in the capital city of Bamako, said in an interview. The book is filled with sharply observed small professional intrigues, individual struggles and family squabbles -- some recognisable as simply another culture's version of everyday life anywhere, some frighteningly incomprehensible to Eyre, who communicated easily in French but learned only basic Bambara. On his first day, while riding in from the airport, Eyre realised he had already been forced to choose sides in a local rivalry. \"Though I was riding with the (French expatriate) producer, I had cast my lot with the musicians,\" he wrote. CD OF HITS AND INTIMATE MOMENTS The CD, a generous 75 minutes and 19 cuts, has choice hit songs from Mali's greatest stars -- including Salif Keita, Ali Farka Toure, Tounkara's Super Rail Band, Oumou Sangare, Habib Koite, Toumani Diabate -- and some more intimate musical moments recorded by Eyre during his lessons with Tounkara. \"The thing that I consistently felt every time I heard him just sitting out on the porch -- and some of the things on the CD have this feeling, just that string music totally pared down -- was so exciting to me and so beautiful,\" Eyre said. In earlier travels to many of the musical capitals of Africa, he had found his journalistic inquiries would segue into musical exchanges when he got out his guitar. \"I was able for whatever reason to pick things up pretty fast and that would always create this energy and excitement and a certain electricity and I was totally intoxicated with that,\" he said. \"And every time that I would finish an interview with a guitarist I would think, why am I leaving? We're just getting started.\" Eyre, who believes Mali has \"the richest music of any country in Africa,\" comes through as always patient, flexible and tactful under sometimes difficult conditions, but no matter how well he learned to play the guitar styles, he always knew he had only scratched the surface of the tradition. \"It's one thing to appreciate the music, but to be able to really, fully enter into that context is considerably more demanding, on a whole lot of levels,\" he said. Or, as they say in Mali: \"No matter how long a piece of wood floats in the river, it will never become a crocodile.\" CAN'T LIVE WITH THEM, CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT THEM Most difficult for outsiders to understand -- and Eyre does not claim to, fully -- is the role of the griot (pronounced gree-yo), whose praise songs are an essential part of West African life. Listeners being \"sung\" are expected to shower the griots with money. Westerners, while loving the music, may feel uneasy with the money hustle that goes with it. \"Me too,\" agreed Eyre. \"You can never transcend your culture.\" One snippet on the CD includes an exchange in French in which the teachers are explaining that a certain technique will make the music flow. An American friend of Eyre jokes that then the money will also flow and the Africans laugh and say, \"Ah, he has understood well.\" Non-griot Malians may resent having to pay the griots but they could not conceive of holding major events without them. \"People don't exactly hire them, they invite them, and then the griots work the audience,\" said Eyre, adding that even other griots may \"feel manipulated when they're being sung.\" Not all musicians are griots, a role passed down by birth. International superstar Salif Keita, an albino outcast from a noble family, helped change that. Ali Farka Toure, whose home is near Timbuktu and whose music reminds Westerners of the blues, is quoted as saying he is Songhoi, not Manding, and that \"griotism is an art of exploitation and flattery.\" But for many West Africans, the griots are a necessary part of society. \"There's a sense that the griots are not telling everything, they have secret knowledge and they're u"}, {"response": 34, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Sep 23, 2000 (12:45)", "body": "MALI: INTERNET ACCESS INCREASES TENFOLD FROM TINY BASE The Malian National Telecommunication Company (SOTELMA) started providing internet accessn in 1992 with an X.25 access in 1992 line and the first client for this service was the ORSTOM, a French development aid agency. ORSTOM used the X25 line to provide email service through the RIO. Two year later, two private companies (BINTTA and SPIDER) also begun to provide an internet e-mail service. BINTTA's service was with RIO and SPIDER's was based on the FIDOnet/Internet email service. In 1996, USAID, through the Leland Initiative, helped SOTELMA provide a full internet service by financing satellite bandwidth acquisition for 3 Years and by training SOTELMA's technicians. SOTELMA then gave four licenses to the private sector in Mali to provide full Internet Service. These first companies were: BINTTA, SPIDER, DATATECH and CEFIB. Whereas in the developed world, the web is the most popular service with e-mail as its poorer cousin. the reverse true in Mali. E-mail is most popular because it allows everybody to have a very low cost method of communication. My own company is issuing more and more email addresses and the number of the Internet users in Mali has increased from 500 to 5000 in two years. This is very good for a country like Mali where we have only 30,000 telephones lines for the whole country and where a computer is very expensive (a computer that cost US$700 in the US, currently costs US$2200 in Mali). Mali now has four new ISPs coming on stream this year bringing the total to 8 and 5 others will come on stream in the next 5 months. All of these ISPs provide all of the services available on the Internet. There are many problems in the development of Internet access in Mali. The first is the telephone system. The second is the cost of the computers and the third is getting across sufficient information to people. They need to know and believe that a communication tool like internet is also a development tool. With the internet we can develop many sectors such as the agricultural sector in Mali, medical sector and others. Internet access tools must be cheap (Computers for example) and the national telco must also make telephone access easy. Right now, it takes an average three months to get a phone line. Furthermore, Internet access is still expensive, ranging from US$30 to US$100 for end users. This is due to the high cost of bandwidth from the national telco, SOTELMA as the monopoly provider: it charges a premium to its ISP customers. The ISPs have begun providing a wireless Internet access (another solution for the problem of telephones lines) however it is much more expensive at US$300-US$1000/month. Emmanuel Dabou ManagingDirector, SPIDER.Ltd, Bamako, Mali Email: edabou@spider.toolnet.org emma@spider.toolnet.org http://www.oneworld.org/anydoc2.cgi?doc_url=http://www.kabissa.org/newsletter/balancing-act18.html"}, {"response": 35, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, Oct  9, 2000 (11:12)", "body": "Thinking of Mali - we leave on the 19th early in the morning, probably returning in March .... We have been allocated housing on the Bamako SIL Centre - a two bedroom flat on the third floor, $316 per month. Looks like we probably won't have to share .. but I'm not sure about that. Last time we shared our three bedroom flat with 7 different people (at different times), including two families. They also say we have desk space in the offices, and they are looking for a car for us to use. They are being most helpful ...we certainly get the feeling we are wanted! We've sorted out most of what we want to take with us,and it's in piles. We still have to finish sorting out my working papers, and decide which to put in the hold and which to take in hand luggage. As we have development worker tickets we get an extra 10kg baggage allowance each. So we have 60kg between us. I gather it is rainy season there now. So lots of mosquitoes, we start malaria prophylaxis on the 11thnd will have to take it all the time we are there and three weeks afterwards. The humidity was around 59% this afternoon there (it was 89% a couple of days ago) and the temperature was around 34 C (94F). It doesn't seem to be raining there just now. (unlike England where it's been raining hard all day today) We've packed quite a lot of recreational stuff as there isn't really much to do there apart form eat out. So, we're taking our kites, sports stuff, games and art materials. Please feel free to email me ...I'm sure we're going to get quite lonely at times ..use sociolingo@hotmail.com and it'll get redirected."}, {"response": 36, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Feb 27, 2001 (13:47)", "body": "Oh dear - nothing in here since I left in October ... Marcia where are you???? I thought you were going to post for me??? And I sent you the diary weekly too. Oh well, suffice it to say we have been VERY busy here researching in schools. Can't think of any tales offhand, I'll have to have a think and post some when I have time."}, {"response": 37, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Feb 28, 2001 (12:59)", "body": "Hello, Maggie! Do let us know what is going on there!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar  1, 2001 (12:05)", "body": "From Maggie in Mali: Just tried to post and lost the whole thing -- very bad connection here in Mali. The kids are on strike on and off at the schools. The big kids take the little kids out with them. Odd going into school and seeing the classes all shut up. Next week is Tabaski. We are spending the festival with a friend and his family. We have been told to turn up at 8 am after he has been to prayers at the mosque, and he will kill the ram he has bought for the sacrifice. Then we got visiting his relatives. Should be a fun day."}, {"response": 39, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, May 20, 2001 (07:14)", "body": "here's a site on birding in mali http://www.camacdonald.com/birding/africamali.htm"}, {"response": 40, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Jun  2, 2001 (12:43)", "body": "I was in Bamako during this .. it was amazing and the gunfire went on allthrough the night. Maggie BBC News Online: World: Africa Tuesday, 13 February, 2001, 14:41 GMT Thousands celebrate hunting in Mali By Joan Baxter in Mali They were taking pot-shots at the heavens even before they reached the presidential palace in the Malian capital, Bamako. Thousands of men, armed with home-made shotguns or bows and arrows, their mud cloth outfits weighted down with fetishes, were on the march. Traffic came to a standstill on the steep, winding road. The invaders came from the far-flung corners of Mali, as well as Burkina Faso, Guinea, Niger and Senegal. Outside the palace gates, some danced, while the trigger-happy continued to shoot at the sky. One man wrestled a hyena on a leash, while others showed off their pythons, which were allowed to slither around the gardens.Traditional hunting is about much more than killing animals. Hunters are healers, they are diviners Week-long festival This was the first-ever festival of traditional West African hunters. The Malian organisers said the aim was to celebrate a 1,000 years, or more, of hunting culture. The idea was also to find a role for traditional hunters in the third millennium, given that there really isn't much left to hunt. The hunters' ball at the presidency was the grand finale of the week-long festival. The hunters were paying a visit to Malian President Alpha Oumar Konare in his splendid palace on the cliff overlooking the city. Panicked officials tried urged them not to shoot when they were parading in front of the president, the prime minister, the cabinet, diplomats and other VIPs. Contrasting views Behind the noise and the spectacle, serious issues were being discussed. Although some 40,000 people packed the stadium in Bamako for the opening ceremony, many said they feared the hunters because of their reputed occult powers that allow them to commune with the spirit world or transform themselves into wild animals. One Malian journalist said he thought it \"ridiculous to spend vast amounts of money bringing all those animists into the capital of a country that is 95% Muslim and very poor.\" This was not a view shared by the scholars from three continents who attended. \"Hunters' societies go back into the depths of time,\" says Tereba Togola, Director of Art and Culture in Mali. \"I would say they are the first form of democracy. They are open to everybody.\" Women's role Cheick Cherif Keita, a Malian professor based in Minnesota, USA, says the hunters' societies have always stressed equality and moral virtues, which are rapidly being eroded in modern West Africa. \"Philanderers, cowards, ones who cannot put up with thirst and hunger cannot be hunters,\" Keita says. There was only a handful of women among the hunters' ranks at the festival, but Keita says that is because traditionally women were not active hunters. \"The female figure was always important for the hunter. He owed all his powers to a female figure - his mother or his sister - who would follow him into the bush and protect him when he was in danger by changing herself into an animal or something magical.\" The future Perhaps the main issue was to determine a role for the hunters, given the disappearance of wild game. But according to Togola, \"Traditional hunting is about more than just killing animals. Hunters are healers, they are diviners, they have great knowledge of the bush, of the stars and even the planets around earth.\" While the traditional hunters from Niger were in Bamako for the festival, the Nigerian Government banned all hunting. Neino Chaibou, director of patrimony in Niger, who led the Nigerian hunters to Mali, admitted that desertification and disappearing wildlife were serious problems in his country. But he said traditional hunters were not to blame for either of these problems, saying it was big-game hunters from \"far away\" who had decimated the big game in Niger. The hunters have always been protectors of society. Cheick Cherif Keita, Malian professor. In the past three decades, wealthy trophy hunters from the Middle East and Europe have been allowed - for hefty sums - to kill lions and other endang red species in several West African countries. The hunter is more than a hunter. Not everyone in Bamako was as enthusiastic about the festival as the hunters and the scholars. We fear the president wants to use all the hunters' powers to extend his mandate. Some private newspapers alleged there were sinister political overtones. Citing the examples of Sierra Leone and Guinea where hunters have taken sides in political upheaval and warfare, one observer said \"this festival should remind hunters that they should consider their hunting activities as a culture and should not follow a military way and attacking people.\" As one woman quipped when I asked her if she wasn't going to watch the hunters parade to the presidential palace: \"It's not good, this hunter thing. We fear the president wants "}]}, {"num": 43, "subject": "Hill Country of Texas", "response_count": 16, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (00:58)", "body": "I had a lovely trip to Wimberly and Gruene today. I was more impressed with Wimberly. It was funkier, more down home. Gruene was crowded."}, {"response": 2, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (01:20)", "body": "Terry, you are gorgeous and so is Texas. How about freeze frame you and post it so we have a good picture of you! You look as good as you sound!!!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (01:21)", "body": "Watchit kids - Heck no! Hawaii is listening!!!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (01:23)", "body": "And you are beginning to sound very comfortable...Love the stream of consciousness - is there any way to tape this? Purgatory Road??? Forget it! 37' deep pool? Sounds exquisite. Test the water quality first... Watch the prices... Yeah! Take us with you!!!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (01:25)", "body": "any endangered lizards in there??? http://www.thomas-distributing.com/maha-mh-c204f.htm has great rechargeable batteries at good prices. Be sure you get NiMH"}, {"response": 6, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (01:26)", "body": "Your sound is all messed up!!!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (01:36)", "body": "Only when you went to blue was the sound messed up. You sound great again. Wind away and let'er roll. I am all amazement that I am seeing and hearing Terry live and direct (well, hearing him...) Aloha, Dorothy!!!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (01:38)", "body": "Um...don't unplug the mike! Man, you sounded so much better and more mellow than those guys. Guess I needed to be there!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (02:11)", "body": "Enjoyed it hugely - but Now even Hawaii is going to bed. See you in the morning! I enjoyed the evening with you. May there be many more. Where do you suggest we post comments when you show videos so we can give you more instantaneous feedback?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (09:09)", "body": "There's a webcam topic somewhere, in one of the conferences. I'm pretty sure it's in porch. Still showing, Elota's play (brief excerpt), Wimberly and the Wailers concert I went to Friday night."}, {"response": 11, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (11:53)", "body": "Thanks. Btw, I had this ugly image in my mind from hearing about the Hill Country of Texas. Forelorn, barren and lacking any charm whatsoever. You showed me it is just the opposite. Thanks for that! Porch 38 is SpringCam. I shall respond to your comments there from now on."}, {"response": 12, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Dec  1, 2000 (08:19)", "body": "LOST MAPLES STATE NATURAL AREA FOLIAGE COLOR CHANGE REPORT (updated weekly in October and November) November 27th, 2000 (Last update of the year): There is still color on many of the Maples. Most are now past prime, so the leaves will drop off soon. The Texas (Red) Oaks are now in color throughout the hill country region. The Texas Oaks can be observed from most of the highways that traverse the hill country. Visitation will be less now that the Thanksgiving weekend is past. It's a great time to visit the park without the big crowds. Special Note: Parking space allows only 250 vehicles, so plan your visit during the week if possible. Accessibility for the disabled: restrooms and picnic tables; you can drive approximately 1 mile into the park to view foliage from your vehicle. The park is located 86 miles northwest of San Antonio and 5 miles north of Vanderpool off Ranch Road 187. If you need further information, please call Lost Maples at 830/966-3413."}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 30, 2001 (14:08)", "body": "a wonderful wonderful article on Afghan women and choice: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/30/international/asia/30WOME.html?searchpv=nytToday"}, {"response": 14, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  4, 2005 (14:22)", "body": "been to helotes (as far as hill country goes)....still want to go to fredericksberg and new braunfels...."}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep  4, 2005 (19:52)", "body": "Have you been to Gruene?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  4, 2005 (22:05)", "body": "not yet! travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 44, "subject": "travel Spain", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, Mar 22, 2000 (13:51)", "body": "Hello Heather, pleased to meet you! Do you live in Spain?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar 24, 2000 (20:43)", "body": "Aloha, Heather! Have not spoken Spanish (Castillan) since college which was more than a few years ago...I know just about enough to get myself into real trouble. Tell us about yourself. We are hosts, too. We should put something of ourselves into topics we create! travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 45, "subject": "British Isles - England, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall", "response_count": 33, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May  6, 2000 (16:32)", "body": "Terry or Cfadm, please freeze topic 20 - England - since it no longer appears on the hot lists or new posts lists. Thanks. I was gonna do it, but I do not have access to the freeze button in this conference."}, {"response": 2, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, May  6, 2000 (17:57)", "body": "Thanks Marcia, I was getting really frustrated! Now I haven't anything to put in after all ..... Watch this space!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May  7, 2000 (00:24)", "body": "me too...*grin*"}, {"response": 4, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sun, May  7, 2000 (12:17)", "body": "Topic 20 frozen."}, {"response": 5, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May  7, 2000 (13:09)", "body": "Mahalo, Terry!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, May  8, 2000 (16:24)", "body": "Men Opt for Pedicure Over a Pint? LONDON (Reuters) - A third of young men in Britain would shun a night at the pub in favor of a session at the beauty parlor, the Times newspaper said Monday. Research by Lloyds TSB showed an increasing number of men bought their own skincare products and treated themselves to facials. Some 85 percent of men questioned admitted to spending more than 15 pounds ($22.91) a month on skincare."}, {"response": 7, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, May  8, 2000 (16:26)", "body": "Oh Dear, this is not going to help what is left of the Englishman's macho image. (I'd say something about the stiff upper lip being the last to go, but will not go there...)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, May  8, 2000 (16:29)", "body": "Man Smuggles Dead Father-In-Law on Bus LONDON (Reuters) - An English rugby fan dressed his dead father-in-law and tried to smuggle the body back home from Scotland on a tour bus, police said Sunday. The bizarre incident happened last weekend after the two men watched a rugby league final in Edinburgh on the Saturday and then only the son-in-law woke up in their hotel room in Glasgow on the Sunday morning. ``For reasons known only to himself, he decided to dress the man I believe in a shirt and tie and a suit and also a baseball cap and he got him onto the bus,'' a Glasgow police spokeswoman said. ``Apparently, he pulled the cap down over the man's eyes and the rest of the coach were unaware that the man was dead.'' Once on the bus, the man phoned his wife to tell her that her 77-year-old father had died, prompting police in England to stop the bus en route and remove the body. The son-in-law was not charged."}, {"response": 9, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May 28, 2000 (18:38)", "body": "1. Aerial view of Arundel Castle. (Aerofilms) 2. Arundel Castle - The Library (Photo: Peter Aprahamian). This is the principal survivor from the 11th Duke of Norfolk's remodelling of the castle c1800 and is entirely lined in Honduras mahogany. The carved detail is by the Jonathan Ritsons, father and son. The red plush seat furniture was supplied by George Marat in 1846. Tahank you, Maggie!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May 28, 2000 (18:39)", "body": "You said your home was a modest little housing estate affair...! Thank you, Maggie, that should have said but I did not have the heart to do it all over again!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, May 29, 2000 (14:26)", "body": "Arundel Castle Arundel castle in the south of England is well worth a visit. The castle has the same plan as Windsor Castle with a central earthen mound or motte supporting the keep, flanked to the north and south by irregular walled enclosures known as baileys. The story of the castle begins in 1067 when Roger de Montgomery was created Earl of Arundel and given a third os Sussex as a reward for his careful stewardship of Normandy while William was away conquering England. It is likely that Roger built the Motte and bailey himself, probably of earth and timber which was later replaced by stone. The castle is now the home of the seventeenth Duke of Norfolk."}, {"response": 12, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, May 29, 2000 (18:21)", "body": "The Chiltern Hills of South Central England Thank you Maggie. She lives on this sacred ground"}, {"response": 13, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Mon, May 29, 2000 (19:12)", "body": "The windmill in the middle picture and the surrounding area are where Chitty Chitty Bang Bang was filmed. Sorry, but I don't live in the house in the last picture!!!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, May 29, 2000 (21:38)", "body": "Oh I know!!! I am sorry I don't live there, too. and all those lovely sheep all around... (What are you doing awake at this hour??!!)"}, {"response": 15, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, May 30, 2000 (03:06)", "body": "(Talking to YOU!!!) There's a nice little picnic place where I took those photos. Just room for one car, and there's a bench overlooking the valley (you have the pic of T there looking silly!)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, May 30, 2000 (20:59)", "body": "(Looking delightful, actually!) gonna post more of Britain but you're gonna have to so to Garden conference to see them...*grin*"}, {"response": 17, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Jun  3, 2000 (10:47)", "body": "CAMPAIGNERS PLAN NUDE MARCH IN SEASIDE RESORT Saturday, June 03, 2000 11:46 A group of campaigners is planning to march naked through a seaside town tomorrow to highlight what its demands for the legal right to appear in public without clothes. Up to a dozen members of Coventry-based group Freedom To Be Yourself \ufffd who all insist they are not naturists \ufffd will walk naked from Brighton's Royal Pavilion, past Brighton Pier and east along the promenade to the town's nudist beach. The march, at 2pm, coincided with World Naturist Day, but was not in support of the event, said the group's leader, Vincent Bethell, 28. Mr Bethell, an unemployed clerical worker, said: \"We are critical of naturists because they believe in segregation. We are campaigning for the abolition of segregation and the legalisation of appearing in public naked. \"Being human is not a crime yet we are being punished for the way we look. It is a discrimination against being human; the style of our bodies, the shape of our body parts.\" Mr Bethell said he hoped police in Brighton would take a \"liberal\" attitude to the marchers and not arrest them for indecent exposure. He might keep his clothes on so that at least one member of the group will be able to meet the media if the police decide to act, he said. \"It is very important to get our message across so I may keep my clothes on. But if it's a nice day I may take the plunge. \"We have had reports that the police in Brighton are quite relaxed and that Brighton is a very liberal place so hopefully we will be allowed to march without interference. \"Whether or not others protest is a bit up in the air.\" Tomorrow's march is a \"warm up\" for the group's biggest event of the year, a nude march on New Scotland Yard in London on July 15. Dozens of naked protesters will gather at 2pm march to Parliament Square and into Whitehall before disbanding in a London park. \ufffd Press Association"}, {"response": 18, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jun  4, 2000 (00:03)", "body": "Didja go? Didja take pictures? Can I see um? Please????? I promise not to tell..."}, {"response": 19, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Jun  4, 2000 (04:48)", "body": "sorry - too far! didn't see it on the news either"}, {"response": 20, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jun  4, 2000 (17:55)", "body": "Funny thing! The Beeb does not DO things like that..."}, {"response": 21, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Tue, Jun  6, 2000 (05:39)", "body": "I wonder why!!!!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jun 13, 2000 (19:31)", "body": "Send Page Last updated: Tuesday - 18:32 06/13/2000, EST Britons Sigh Over Wobbly Thames Bridge LONDON (Reuters) - London bridge is falling down. Well, not quite. But Britain's feted Millennium Bridge, built to form a ``blade of light'' across the capital's mighty River Thames, has got a serious case of the shakes. And Britons are not amused. ``Sad, isn't it?'' was the Daily Mirror's reaction to news that the slender steel structure designed by leading architect Norman Foster and built by engineers Ove Arup has been closed just two days after its already delayed official opening. The 320-meter long footbridge linking St Paul's Cathedral to the new Tate Modern art gallery, was inaugurated by Queen Elizabeth last month and opened to the public on Saturday. It swayed violently when the first pedestrians strolled across it on a breezy but far from blustery summer's day. By Monday the Millennium Bridge Trust had caved in and said it was closing the 18 million pound ($27 million) bridge ``for weeks'' to investigate and correct the swinging issue. British newspapers had fun with the puns, with phrases like ''winds of change,'' ``shaken but not stirred'' and ``a bridge too far'' peppering editorial pages. Commentators bemoaned the ghost of failure which haunts so many of London's Millennium projects. BRIDGE BLAME GAME The 758 million pound ($1.15 billion) Millennium Dome is now being kept afloat by government subsidies, the giant London Eye ferris wheel was not ready for passengers on January 1, and the ``river of fire'' overture to the Millennium night fireworks simply failed to light. ``Like the famed 'river of fire' that never ignited, the 'blade of light' has not quite cut the mustard,'' wailed the capital's Evening Standard newspaper. ``When one damn thing follows another with the regularity we have seen in London over the millennial celebrations, the choice is between seeing these mishaps as awful auguries for the unfolding age, or seeing the humorous side of it,'' it added. But the serious task was asking who was to blame for the wobbly bridge. Not me, said architect Norman Foster who told the Daily Telegraph the fault was ``an engineering issue.'' Not me, said Culture Secretary and chairman of the Millennium Commission Chris Smith, whose office told Reuters that no apology would be made. ``The bridge has encountered some technical problems, but they will be sorted out and then London will have its bridge,'' a commission spokeswoman said. The spotlight inevitably fell on the engineers Ove Arup, whose chairman Tony Fitzpatrick was forced to admit that he and his company were ``very embarrassed'' by the closure. But even though no one will cross it for the foreseeable future, and some of those who did complained of sea-sickness, Fitzpatrick told the Evening Standard it was ``fantastic'' that London boasted ``the slenderest suspension bridge in the world.'' The irony in his appeal for patience was not missed. ``Just hang on and it will be fine,'' he said."}, {"response": 23, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Jun 14, 2000 (03:18)", "body": "(and you didn't post the story and pictures I sent you???? *grin*)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Jun 14, 2000 (17:47)", "body": "Nope...*sigh* I should and here would be perfect... as soon as I can - but have to put it on the hard drive - think it that important?"}, {"response": 25, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Wed, Jun 14, 2000 (17:52)", "body": "no, probably bad taste anyway! *grin*"}, {"response": 26, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jun 15, 2000 (02:13)", "body": "probably... but I really enjoyed it *grin*"}, {"response": 27, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Jun 16, 2000 (11:03)", "body": "Makes up for the lack of Coventry pix earlier!!!*grin*"}, {"response": 28, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sun, Jun 18, 2000 (04:37)", "body": "A lovely word picture of where I live. It goes with the pictures in post number 12 here. ENGLAND We have been dwellers in a lovely land; A land of lavish lights and floating shades, And broad green flats, bordered by woody capes That lessen ever as they stretch away Into the distant blue. A land of hills; Cloud-gathering ranges, on whose ancient breast The morning mists repose; each autumn tide Deep purple with the heath-bloom; from whose brow We might behold the crimson sun go down Behind the barrier of the western sea; A land of beautiful and stately lanes Aerial temples most magnificent, Rising with clusters of rich pinnacles And fretted battlements; a land of towers., Where sleeps the music of deep-voiced bells, Save when in holyday time the joyous air Ebbs t o the welling sound; and Sabbath morn, When from a choir of hill-side villages The peaceful invitation chimes. So were our souls brought up to love this earth, And feed on natural beauty; and the light Of our own sunsets, and the mountains blue That girt around our home, were very parts Of our young being; linked with all we knew; Centres of interest for undying thoughts, And themes of mindful converse. Happy they Who in the fresh and dawning time of youth Have dwelt in such a land, turning their souls To the deep melodies of Nature\ufffds laws, Heard in the after-time of riper thought, Reflective on past seasons of delight. (Henry Alford (1810-1871, a friend of Tennyson)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Sep  1, 2000 (13:35)", "body": "Found a webcam of one of my favourite local spots - courtesy of Maidenhead Rowing Club. Perhaps you'll see me sitting there with my picnic basket .... http://www.maidenhead.rowing.org.uk/webcam/javacam.htm"}, {"response": 30, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Sep  1, 2000 (13:43)", "body": "Here's a virtual tour of Maidenhead and the surrounding areas. Click on the blue links on the site to get more pictures. http://www.maidenhead.net/tour/"}, {"response": 31, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Sat, Sep  2, 2000 (05:11)", "body": "Found a super map site for Britain, you can search by post code or location name. Even found my street!!! http://www.multimap.com"}, {"response": 32, "author": "sociolingo", "date": "Fri, Oct 13, 2000 (06:32)", "body": "Hundreds flee floods in southern England By Mark Herlihy LONDON (Reuters) - Large areas of southern England were on full-scale flood alert on Friday after heavy rains raised river levels, swamped towns and forced hundreds of people to flee their homes. \"We are saying there is an imminent threat to life and property,\" an Environment Agency spokesman told Reuters late on Thursday. Some insurance experts said Britain could be facing its biggest bill for a natural disaster. The bill could run to four billion pounds, Jeffrey Salmon, of Salmon Assessors, was quoted as saying by the BBC. Officials estimated that several hundred people had left their homes after rivers broke their banks and flooded towns, villages and roads in the counties of Sussex, Kent and Hampshire and on the Isle of Wight. Some unconfirmed reports said the figure for the number of homeless could run into thousands. Helicopters and lifeboats were rushed in to help rescue people stranded by the floods caused by several days of heavy rain. A man in East Sussex was swept away by floodwaters outside a supermarket and was carried downstream clinging to a door. He was plucked from the water and airlifted to hospital by a coastguard helicopter. SEVERE FLOOD WARNINGS \"We have currently 16 severe flood warnings in effect -- all in East Sussex and in Kent,\" the Environment Agency spokesman said. \"We have a total of 40 flood warnings, which means people in those areas should prepare now, and 89 flood watches currently in force across the south, southwest, midlands, central and eastern England.\" The Environment Agency said it expected the severe flood warnings in Kent and East Sussex to remain in place for the next few days. \"Even though the rain has been easing off, the rivers are at very high levels. It will take a long time to return to normal,\" the spokesman said. Kent police said on Thursday they had started to evacuate whole villages because of the rising waters. A spokesman said emergency centres had been set up in the affected areas. \"The number of people evacuated from their homes is in the hundreds,\" he said. A Sussex police spokesman said: \"The general situation in the south is very bad and every road in the area is affected. \"We are warning people not to drive if they don't have to.\" Sussex police said about 200 people had been evacuated from their homes in the county, mainly from the town of Lewes. Rail services from London to the English south coast have been disrupted by the weather and some stretches of line have been closed. \"There are some delays in the region, where parts of the track are under as much as four feet (1.3 metres) of water,\" said a spokeswoman for railway network operator Railtrack. Police in northern England plan to resume a search on Friday for a teenage girl swept away by a fast- flowing river. North Yorkshire police recovered the body of 14-year-old Rochelle Cauvet on Wednesday and have widened their hunt for her friend Hannah Black, 13. The pair were swept away by the swollen waters of the Stainforth Beck river while on a school walking trip along its banks."}, {"response": 33, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun 23, 2001 (15:41)", "body": "Hunting for all these webcams to watch Maggie eating here cucumber sandwiches. This is great stuff. Will also hunt up Yew trees. They are special to me! travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 46, "subject": "Costa Rica", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 47, "subject": "New Zealand:  The Land of The Long White Cloud", "response_count": 40, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Jun 20, 2001 (01:54)", "body": "The national bird of New Zealand is the Kiwi. The people who live there are know as Kiwis - or in the case of the native population, Maori. The Maori are related to the Hawaiians and their languages have many similarities. Next a map of the place."}, {"response": 2, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Wed, Jun 20, 2001 (05:53)", "body": "Hi Got that a bit back to front. Christchurch is considered more English than England because of it's culture. Hagley Park in the centre of Christchurch is a vast open area where you can play sport, go to huge open-air concerts, or simply go for a stroll. Every Queens Birthday weekend on the Monday (Public Holiday), the park booms to the sound of 21 gun salute (artillery firing blanks). The street names are a mix of English and Maori - Worcester, Cashel, Gloucester, Armagh, Hereford, Manchester, Colombo, Moorhouse, Wairakei, Aorangi, Papanui and so it goes on. New Zealand's biggest cities are as follows (population 100,000+): Auckland - 1.2 million Wellington - 500,000 Christchurch - 324,000 Manukau - 267,000 Hamilton - 150,000 Napier-Hastings - 110,000 Dunedin - 105,000 Palmerston North 102,000 Rob"}, {"response": 3, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Jun 20, 2001 (16:05)", "body": "Thanks, Rob. You found it! Of course I got it back to front. How else was I going to get you to comment *;) Hilo is full of combination names, but currently there is an ordnance requiring Hawaiian names for all new streets. Some get very long and convoluted and just about unpronounceable. http://www.govt.nz/aboutnz/nzmap.php3"}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun 23, 2001 (15:54)", "body": "Now kiddies, Listen up! We are going to learn tospeak Kiwi today. A quiz will follow. Kiwi slang is abundant, colorful and some sound oddly familiar. Some are quite British, and some are just plain wonderfully original. Last evenign I listened to short wave broadcast of the allblacks beating the jumpers off the Argentina team in Rugby last night (today their time - or is it now yesterday?) (Why is the team name always written in small letter instead of a capital at the beginning?) In many case, this is a bit of a warning about trying to be too \"with it\" when you go to Kiwilands: root : to have sex. A warning to folk from the USA! - A female visitor from the US has this to say... My first time in NZ I made the unfortunate mistake of listing off my hobbies to a family that had me over for tea.... among my hobbies? \"I like to root for the football team!\" (one of the boys said, \"What, the WHOLE team??\") Credit for this listing is on the page - but I'm not saying where! http://www.chemistry.co.nz/kiwi.htm"}, {"response": 5, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun 23, 2001 (16:18)", "body": "I guess I will cheer for the Canterbury teams and the allblacks, but root? I think not! I am certain will make this error just as any sports enthusiast from the US would. Please be patient with me, Rob, dear. I promise to try very hard not to embarrass you in any way."}, {"response": 6, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun 23, 2001 (16:49)", "body": "The silver fern, and black as a uniform colour are traditionally worn by New Zealand representitives in the sporting arena. Amongst the most famous are our \"Men in Black\": New Zealand's: \"ALL BLACKS. Rugby has long been considered our national sport. N.Z has been a formiddable side for nearly a century! Sport is one of the major parts of the Kiwi lifestyle. The Hillary Commission has been set up by the Government to develop sport and physical activity so that more people can be involved, enjoy an active lifestyle and develop their skills - perhaps even become champions. We are named after one of NZ's heroes - Sir Edmund Hillary. With his climbing partner Tenzing Norgay, Sir Edmund was the first to reach the peak of Mt Everest, a feat he achieved in 1953. Sir Peter Blake on left, with the \"America's Cup\". Famous for his yachting prowess. He and the crew of \"Black Magic\" won the \"America's cup\", New Zealand is the current holder of the Cup . In 1851, America crossed the finish line off Cowes leaving the Royal Yacht Squadron in her wake. A severe blow to the pride of Britannia, America's victory heralded a new era in sailing, and set a benchmark for human competition that remains unrivalled. The America's Cup is indisputably the most coveted trophy in sailing today. As the ultimate symbol of prestige and achievement, it has endured nearly 150 years of fierce competition. Fantastic links... http://www.gipsyland.com/sports.html"}, {"response": 7, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun 23, 2001 (16:52)", "body": ""}, {"response": 8, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun 23, 2001 (16:58)", "body": "JADE Stadium! Bad propagation and the theft of my great little short wave receiver has made discerning precisely what they are saying when it comes to names which are unfamiliar. A roaring All Blacks side ran in 10 tries to two demolishing a bruising Argentinian team 67-19 at Jade Stadium on Saturday night. The New Zealand side looked a shadow of the average side that beat Manu Samoa 50-6 last week, hungry and fired up for a resounding win. Pita Alatini and Jeff Wilson both scored two tries. Wilson's second put him equal with Christian Cullen for the most tries scored by an All Black (42). The home side were well ahead, 31-14 at halftime and added six second half tries for the convincing win. The All Blacks were a full step up from their first match of the season last week, playing with heartening determination that has been missing from their game in recent times. The last time Argentina toured New Zealand, the All Blacks hammered the South Americans 93-8, but the All Blacks, ever wary now of declaring their favourites tag, were non committal in the build up during the past seven days of the chance of another thrashing. On the Pumas' week day results the All Blacks had something to ponder over. The Argentinians were powerful against Counties Manukau beating them 70-26 and then a second string side dealt to Thames Valley 26-12. The Pumas were on the board first when Felipe Contepomi scored off a penalty conceded by the New Zealanders. The All Blacks' mistake rocked them into action for two quick tries to follow. It took the All Blacks 10 minutes to come alive with a length of a field try finished off by Tana Umaga. Leon MacDonald started what turned out to be demonstration of how to score through the backs. Some quick passing that saw Alatini, Jonah Lomu, Mehrtens each touch the ball as Lomu found Umaga at pace to finish off. With Mehrtens on target the conversion gave New Zealand a 7-3 led. Another All Black penalty conceded narrowed the gap to one point and opened up a wound Taine Randell's try, 10 minutes later healed. Randell, playing at openside flanker was convincing at Josh Kronfeld's old position, although there were still some teething problems with missed communication with his teammates on a few occasions. Randell moved to number eight when Jerry Collins left the field, with Marty Holah taking on the openside role. Randell's try however was perfect. Troy Flavell found him with plenty off space to dot down. Flavell's early season formed continued with some bruising blows, muscling his way through the burly Argentinian defence. However he found himself on the receiving end of a low blow by prop Roberto Grau when he copped a knee to the ribs in the second half. Both Flavell and Grau left the field. The All Black lock to the medics, Grau to the sinbin. Pita Alatini's effort at second five was rewarded with two tries in the first half, his first - minutes after Randell dotted down. Alatini on the end of a set move finished off to pull away from the Pumas, who were kept on the board through Contepomi's boot until a 70 metre try gave Argentina their first try of the match. A fast finishing Argentinian captain Lisandro Arbizo scoring for the visitors. With Alatini's second try just before halftime, the All Blacks had a healthy 31-14 lead at the break. The second half saw Leon MacDonald saw score a rightful reward after a revitalised effort. Doug Howlett maintained his try-scoring record of touching down in every match he has played, when Wilson unselfishly off loaded to the flying wing. While Marty Holah scored his first try of his All Black career in just his second match for the men in black. A consolation try from wing Gonzalo Camardon gave the Argentinians their second of the match. The All Blacks' all round game improved and when captain Anton Oliver was sinbinned mysteriously the side upped their work rate markedly to protect their lead while a player down. It was an angry Oliver that returned, barging through the defence eager to make up for lost time. Kickers Andrew Mehrtens and Tony Brown were solid. Mehrtens on target with three conversions and a penalty before Brown took over when the Cantabrian was injured. Brown converted four but missed three. more... http://onesport.nzoom.com/sport_detail/0,1278,44849,00.html"}, {"response": 9, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jul 21, 2001 (20:19)", "body": "For Rob and John, his dad, a bit of blasphemy which I hope will not offend: (Rob asked me to post it here!) I vow to thee my country (I'll take those sprigs with pride) by Some Unknown Poet I vow to thee my country, place my heart in your marbled hands, Lift St George's flag fluttering, above proud Twickenham's stands, Sweet lord, the foe in host come gather, a haka to perform, This new white jersey's lovely, I hope it won't get torn. My lord, Tuigamala's thighs are hefty, and his chest is very broad, You mean he's on the left wing side? Oh shit, oh my bloody lord. Dear England, I place my body - firmly upon the line, And hope like hell I don't get rucked by Richard Loe this time, Geoff, my liege, I prithee sir, please say a prayer for us, as we ride for Twickenham, upon that big white bus. I vow to thee my country, I'll take the sprigs with pride, as the Black Blanket washes over us, I'll feel strong inside, I'll stand up and be counted, take Olo and take Sean, I vow to thee my country, oh shit, my jumpers torn!\""}, {"response": 10, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Mon, Oct  8, 2001 (22:07)", "body": "The Hawaii-Kiwi Connection: New Zealand/Hawaii nudges defending champ Lanikai The 50th Anniversary Bank of Hawaii Hinano Molokai Hoe covered 41 miles yesterday, yet less than 41 inches from the finish line the outcome was still very much in doubt. For the closest finish in race history, Team New Zealand/ Hawaii just nosed out defending champion Lanikai to capture its first title in what is considered the world championship of men's outrigger canoe racing. After finishing third and then second twice the last three years, the team comprised of five paddlers from New Zealand and four from Hawaii broke through for a victory in the Molokai-to-Oahu race with a winning time of five hours, two minutes, 57 seconds. Lanikai made a hard charge for the finish line, but came up barely short for second at 5:02:59. Both crews challenged but did not break the overall race record (4:50:31) that Lanikai set in winning last year. \"We kind of lost some ground there on the inside, we didn't want to bail water,\" said New Zealand/Hawaii's stroker, Kealii Paiaina. The team's canvas cover had been giving it trouble throughout the race, according to Paiaina, allowing water to get in, making the boat heavier. \"We kind of evened up, and it was just bump for bump, stroke for stroke, and somehow we just pulled a nose ahead.\" The race started at 7:23 yesterday morning at Hale O Lono Harbor, Molokai, with 107 teams, including 16 from the mainland and 10 foreign-based crews. The teams challenged serious waves with 15- to 20-foot faces crossing the Kaiwi Channel, with waves still in the 8- to 12-foot range as they rounded Portlock at Hawaii Kai. Despite switching the lead position a couple times in the race, with gaps between them approximately a quarter- to half-mile on occasion, New Zealand/ Hawaii and Lanikai rounded the buoy off the Hilton Hawaiian Village pier for the homestretch virtually even. New Zealand/ Hawaii had the lead at the outset, while Lanikai was the front-runner across most of the channel. New Zealand retook the lead as the two hit Hanauma Bay off Koko Head, but Lanikai was able to make up some ground in the surf off Waikiki. \"When a race finishes that tight, it can go either way,\" Lanikai's Mike Judd said. \"It's kind of like a basketball game, tied at 72, with one shot left. Whichever team has the ball in the end and can make the hoop is going to win. more... http://starbulletin.com/2001/10/08/sports/story1.html"}, {"response": 11, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Tue, Nov 27, 2001 (23:59)", "body": "Hi all Ever heard of the Under Arm incident in Cricket? A strange and unsporting idea thought up by the Chappell brothers of Australia in 1981, it strained New Zealand sporting relations with Australia and intensified the rivalry considerably. It all came about when we needed a 6 of the last ball, and so the Chappell Brothers put their heads together. Trevor goes back to umpire, bends over and under-arms the ball down the pitch. The crowd is disgusted and so are the NZ team. A radio commentator had this to say of New Zealand \"If we could have got the ships, guns, tanks, planes and troops needed to invade Australia, we would have.\" Rob"}, {"response": 12, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 28, 2001 (20:59)", "body": "I heard mention of this incident but no further enlightenment. Thanks,Rob! In the sports conference we actually have a cricket topic. I need to get that going again now that spring has arrived in Aotearoa and other places in habiting the lower half of our planet."}, {"response": 13, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Nov 28, 2001 (21:02)", "body": "I am still laughing at the battle which nearly erupted over the incident. One does not mess about with tradition and sportsmanship. I'm delighted to know your lovely islands were not instigators of the unhappy event. That could never have happened!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Thu, Nov 29, 2001 (17:41)", "body": "Hi all New Zealand is a safe place to come to in the wake of the terrorist attacks and our relative isolation from the rest of the world means we are rarely in the international spotlight. I think that there are advantages to being small. We are 2100 km from Sydney, and a similar distance to Hobart."}, {"response": 15, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Nov 29, 2001 (18:19)", "body": "It is getting to the plane and on it with friendly people that is the concern in a time of hijacking and using planes as missiles. I want vry much to see New Zealand, and one day, I shall. Coming to Hawaii is also lpretty safe, especially the Big Island. It's right on the way to New Zealand, too!"}, {"response": 16, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Sat, Jan  5, 2002 (05:56)", "body": "Hi all GOD DEFEND NEW ZEALAND God of nations, At thy feet, In the bonds of love we meet, Hear our voices we entreat, God defend our free land. Guard Pacific's triple star, From the shafts of strife and war, Make her praises heard afar, God defend New Zealand. That is the National Anthem of New Zealand. Rob"}, {"response": 17, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Sun, Feb  3, 2002 (23:08)", "body": "Hi all Franz Josef and Fox are located about 90 minutes and 110 minutes southwest of Hokitika on the West Coast. Hugging the Southern Alps, they are on the Alpine Fault which is prominent in both towns. They are best noted for the big glaciers that go by the same names as the two towns. I have been to both glaciers which is really neat. The West Coast is rugged, isolated and drop dead beautiful. The human population is only 40,000 but the people are very friendly and well respected by all around the world. The Greens want to stop mining and forestry on the West Coast even though both have been a traditional source of income - gold and coal mining has a rich history there. Rob"}, {"response": 18, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Feb 21, 2002 (23:15)", "body": "Please tell me where the Kermedec Islands are. They have a lot of earthquakes, and I cannot seem to find them on the internet nor on my maps."}, {"response": 19, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Tue, Mar 19, 2002 (05:17)", "body": "Hi all The Kermadecs are several hundred kilometres north-northeast of New Zealand on the boundary of the Australian and Pacific tectonic plates. They get with fair frequency earthquakes and I think Raoul Island is part of a submerged caldera. Rob"}, {"response": 20, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Mar 19, 2002 (17:28)", "body": "Thank you!!! I need a much better atlas than I currently have. World Atlas, that is."}, {"response": 21, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Mar 19, 2002 (17:46)", "body": "Raoul Island, 21 November 1964 - Our most northerly active volcano last erupted in 1964 from vents close to Green Lake. A seismic crisis in 1994 did not culminate in an eruption. (photo by D. Merton) Raoul is a stratovolcano located in the Kermadec Islands. The volcano rises 8987 ft (2740 m) above the ocean floor. Raoul is roughly triangular in shape with an area of 29.25 sq km. The center of this island contains a caldera. This caldera is 2.05 miles (3.3 km) wide. A second crater lies in the rim of the cliffs that surround the island. These cliffs also encircle half of the nearby bay. A third crater lies east of the main island. Raoul island is composed of material ejected from several eruption centers. Most of the early materials erupted from Raoul are andesitic tuffs. The Herald Islets in the east were the first to be active. A later eruption of pumice tuffs covers these andesitic tuffs. Raoul has erupted 14 times. It last erupted in 1965. http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/img_raoul.html"}, {"response": 22, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Mar 19, 2002 (18:02)", "body": "andesitic tuff is the product of HIGHLY explosive eruptions!!!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Wed, Mar 27, 2002 (04:52)", "body": "Hi all Provincial mottos for NZ - the Rob Glennie variant (Marcia, I modified this to include others): Canterbury: The folk at Jade Stadium have two eyes, not one. Auckland: City of sails, and wasted taxes. Waikato: Baaa!!!! Wellington: We have not been blown away, yet. Otago: Gold!!!! Southland: Speights - Pride of the south for over 100 years. West Coast: That place deserves a Monteiths! Marlborough: Good wine. Hawke's Bay: Art Deco Province. Wairarapa: The shaky province. Taranaki: The mountain IS Taranaki! Bay of Plenty: Sulphur, steam, and volcanoes. Manawatu: Tararua cheese. Northland: Land of Waitangi. Rob"}, {"response": 24, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Wed, Mar 27, 2002 (04:54)", "body": "Hi all Better add Nelson. I would never be forgiven by a friend there for leaving her of the list. Nelson: Sunshine province."}, {"response": 25, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Mar 27, 2002 (23:16)", "body": "Nelson \"sounds\" lovely. Or, is that fjordland?! What is Tararua cheese like?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Thu, Mar 28, 2002 (04:43)", "body": "Hi all Different ends of the South Island. Fiordland is the dramatic rugged area in the extreme southwestern corner of the South Island from Milford Sound southwards. Nelson city is in the north and is on the east side of Tasman Bay. The Nelson area is the northwestern corner of the South Island. Tararua cheese is tasty and I think small quantities get exported overseas. You might want to try New Zealand apples if they can be got in Hilo. I think they were available in 1992 because apples tasting identical to some of ours were identified by label as having come from Washington State! Rob"}, {"response": 27, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar 29, 2002 (00:27)", "body": "We do get New Zealand apples and I am especially fond of them and your lamb. I will check for your cheese at my local purveyor."}, {"response": 28, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Tue, Apr 23, 2002 (06:04)", "body": "Hi all Here are the lyrics from a cool New Zealand song by Crowded House (19??-1996). It is called Weather with you and was written by their popular frontman Neil Finn. He and his brother Tim are possibly one of the biggest acts to come out of New Zealand. Weather With You Written By N. Finn & T. Finn Walking 'round the room singing Stormy Weather at 57 Mt. Pleasant St. Now it's the same room but everything's different You can fight the sleep but not the dream Things ain't cooking in my kitchen Strange affliction wash over me Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire Couldn't conquer the blue sky There's a small boat made of china Going nowhere on the mantlepiece Do I lie like a loungeroom lizard Or do I sing like a bird released CHORUS Everywhere you go you always take the weather with you (Repeat) Rob"}, {"response": 29, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Wed, Apr 24, 2002 (05:32)", "body": "Hi all Tomorrow (April 25)is ANZAC Day. A day where New Zealanders come together to give thanks to the war veterans and those who did not come home. LEST WE FORGET (I will be at the ANZAC Day Dawn Parade tomorrow as a mark of respect - 6.30AM start). Rob"}, {"response": 30, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Thu, Apr 25, 2002 (05:42)", "body": "Hi all Today was ANZAC Day in New Zealand and I just want to post this article for you all to read: http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/index/0,1008,1178868a1561,FF.html Rob"}, {"response": 31, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Apr 26, 2002 (17:26)", "body": "HAPPY ANZAC DAY, ROB!!!!!! (and any other Kiwis out there)"}, {"response": 32, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, May 10, 2002 (23:32)", "body": "Goodness, I was elsewhere for this celebration. New Zealand's cricket team just missed being wiped out by a bomb in Karachi. This is frightening!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, May 12, 2002 (19:01)", "body": "Rob, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions. My husband announced last night that he'd like us to go to NZ next year to visit the rainforest and the other natural attractions. Could you give us some guidance here? Such as when is the best time to travel (we are totally flexible), weather considerations, recommended destinations, etc.?? Thanks for any help you can provide!!"}, {"response": 34, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Mon, May 13, 2002 (05:41)", "body": "Hi all COOL!!!!!!!!! Cannot hardly complain there can I?? ***GRINS*** Anyway, a good idea is to fly to Auckland or Christchurch (Auckland is the gateway to the North Island and generally New Zealand as a whole, but Christchurch is the gateway to the South Island). You can get into Wellington but your options are limited, since the airport has Cook Strait to the south and the harbour to the north, so a 767 will be the largest aircraft getting in and out of there. I recommend you spend at least 3 days in Auckland and Christchurch, because there has been a significant improvement in the attractions over the last decade. Attractions in Auckland include the Skytower, and the America's Cup village at Viaduct Basin where the next defence will be held. There is the museum on the slopes of one of Aucklands 48 extinct volcanoes. Umm, Auckland is fairly warm all year round (mid 70.Fs in summer by day and not much cooler at night), still mild in winter and rainfall is about 47 inches annually. Take a jersey or something if you go near the coast though because the wind may be cooler. Rotorua is world renown for it's volcanoes, geothermal attractions and Maori arts and crafts (the Maori Institute of arts and crafts at Whakarewarewa geothermal reserve (all Rotorua is on a very active geothermal system so no matter where you build you will have steaming ground, or a slight smell of rotten eggs)is a MUST SEE). The Buried Village of Te Wairoa is a superb stroll through the ruins of a village demolished by the big 1886 eruption of the Tarawera volcano clearly visible across Lake Rotomahana. You can go on a 4WD trek up to the summit of the volcano and walk through a segment of the 17km (11 mile)rift with its 22 craters. So much to see and do in the central North Island, that I will leave it there and move on to other parts of NZ. In Wellington the first attraction everyone asks about is Te Papa (Museum of NZ)which is very well worth a look. It requires several hours to get a decent look. The other attraction is the Parliament of New Zealand which sits on Thursdays. The viewing gallery above th chamber will afford a good view of New Zealand politics. If you are into geology go to the Karori Reservoirs and marvel at the stupidity of the decision to build over the Wellington Fault. The nearby reserve is being used for Kiwi breeding and is a natural habitat fenced off to predators. Welcome to my world (Christchurch, and the marvellous province of Canterbury). In Christchurch there are many attractions in this very English city. They include the New Brighton Pier, which was built a few years ago in and is immensely popular with fishermen, and has fireworks displays on Guy Fawkes Day every November 5. The Arts Centre has a fine range of local crafts and arts, with buskers, food stalls, and entertainers to keep you occupied. Nearby is the Museum of Canterbury, looking down Worcester Boulevard to Cathedral Square. A thorough look at the Arts Centre and the Museum I am guessing will take the better part of a day. The Christchurch Art Gallery, which is currently under construction will be ready for use by mid next year I think. You must have a look in the Botanical Gardens adjacent to the Museum and Hagley Park, a vast open park where huge open air concerts are held every March and December. Finally the Antarctic Museum near the airport recognises Christchurch's role in Operation Deep Freez - the American Antarctic operation, for which we are the staging post. Of stunning beauty and awe inspiring grandeur is the province of Westland which is on the west side of the Southern Alps. The people are very friendly and typify New Zealand - a nation of geographical isolation and independence. Despite the rain (rainfall here can be phenomenal - up to 550 inches (yeah you read that right)of rain in Southern Alps annually), and the sandflies, the beauty of the low cloud hugging the forest clad valleys and gorges, the crisp clean air, is just brilliant. So what is there to do, well, I will cover the natural features of NZ in a separate section. New Zealand has 12 national parks covering a significant portion of the country, of which two are world heritage areas. The two World Heritage areas are Tongariro National Park in the central North Island. It has three volcanoes, all of which are dormant, and they are Ruapehu, Ngauruhoe, and Tongariro. The other one is in Fiordland and is the Fiordland National Park. This is an area of beauty which cannot be described, except that it is simply awesome. It is an area of very high rainfall (Milford Sound gets 25 inches of rain in January alone). It is home to three of our greatest walking tracks, the Milford (one of the best in the world), the Kepler, and the Routeburn. Mount Aspring National Park is dominated by the mountain which lends it name to the Park. Mount Cook National Park is best known for holding the highest peaks in the country and Mount Cook is 12300ft which is the highest place in New Zealand. W"}, {"response": 35, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, May 13, 2002 (13:50)", "body": "WOW!! I am in information overload. Rotorua sounds awesome on so many levels. I love the idea of getting a taste of Maori culture/history. The buried village sounds incredible (we loved Pompeii), but we probably won't be able to convince the kids (ages 8 and 10) to do Parliament or any museum too adult-oriented. Re the Wellington Fault--they built reservoirs over it? I'm not real clear on that. Christchurch sounds like the most urbane of destinations--is that the biggest city in NZ? What is the population? Is it easy to drive in or is there ample public transport? Westland and Nelson sound amazing and full of wild, rugged beauty. Is there a rainforest region in NZ?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Tue, May 14, 2002 (04:47)", "body": "Hi all Fear not. Rainbows Springs has kids things to do in Rotorua, like farm displays, farm animals, sheep shearing displays and so on. The only real theme park in NZ is Rainbows End near Manukau City about 25 kilometres (15 miles from Auckland). Te Papa has interactive displays and an earthquake simulator for the kids to have fun in. The buried village of Te Wairoa is easy walking for practically all ages. Another thing you might want to see in Rotorua is Waimangu valley. This is just one in a number of spectacular zone of great geothermal sights. Others include Whakarewarewa, Hells Gate, and Waiotapu (hint Lady Knox geyser erupts daily at 10.15AM - BE THERE). I should mention Queenstown in Otago. If you are into winter sports then Queenstown is a must - if you can find accommodation. It has heli skiing, skiing, snow boarding, and a winter festival. Cardrona, the Remarkables, and Coronet Peak skifields are all nearby. Even in summer there is a lot to do. A gondola goes up the hill and there is the SS Earnslaw to go for a ride around Lake Wakatipu on. It is a mecca if you are into gold mining because Otago and Westland had major gold rushes in the 1800s and before the huge Clyde Dam was built the confluence of the Kawarau and Clutha rivers had a gold excavation site on it. Now on to other things. New Zealand has a temperate climate all year round with warm summers and cool winters (although a good southerly blast might leave the temperature hovering around 2-5.C in winter, we do not have the huge snow drifts or ice storms you get). Always take spare clothes when you go into the mountains, near the coast or the bigger lakes, because the weather is notoriously unpredictable and can get rough quickly especially in Spring. That said Auckland enjoys a mean daily maximum temperature in Summer of 23.C (about 70.F), Christchurch 21.C (something similar), and Wellington 21.C (see Christchurch), and Dunedin 19.C. Auckland in winter is mild with temperatures of up to 20.C, Christchurch is considerably cooler, but that is because we have an annoying sea breeze. Our mean daily maximum temperature in winter is 11.C. Don't be put off by the cooler temperatures or you will miss out on a lot of the country in winter. Inland areas in summer might experience temperatures of up to 40.C on the hottest days and convection storms in the afternoon are not uncommon on the central plateau of the North Island, inland Canterbury, or central Otago. Transport in Christchurch is excellent with ring and radial bus services, and traffic congestion is confined to relatively few roads, but the ones that get it are best avoided if possible. Auckland has commuter trains, but the biggest problem is motorway gridlock in the rush hour periods. Aside from that it is actually a fairly reasonable city to get around in. Cannot comment for Dunedin, but traffic coming into Wellington during the rush hour periods can be problematic. By all means take rental cars in all cities and on longer trips, but just be prepared to spend a bit of time in the traffic of the urban areas. Do not worry too much about poisonous insects and creatures here, because aside from the White tail and Katipo spiders (SEEK TREATMENT IF BITTEN BY EITHER), the only problems are blue bottles on the beach, jelly fish, and of course I would be lying if I said we don't have sharks or stingrays. No snakes. No poisonous reptiles, at all. Do lock your car and hide valuables when you are away from it or take the valuables with you, for like all western countries we do have a filthy element. Women, I would advise you not to go alone anywhere at night and avoid if possible darkened areas. Don't get lifts in cars with strangers if on your own unless an emergency. Aside from that, look forward to seeing you in Godzone and Canterbury. My e-mail is lava.dome@eudoramail.com Rob"}, {"response": 37, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, May 14, 2002 (15:50)", "body": "We are going to have our hands full paring it down to the must-do things! We were planning to spend about two weeks. What, in your opinion, is an ideal itinerary for this period of time? If you can think in these terms--I can't imagine doing the same for someone who is planning to be in the US for 2 weeks!"}, {"response": 38, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Wed, May 15, 2002 (02:50)", "body": "Hi all 1 week in each island. In that case allow a full day sightseeing for Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch, and spend the rest of it travelling. I would see the Museum and Skytower in Auckland, and Museum of Te Papa and Parliament in Wellington. In Christchurch I would go to the Museum of Canterbury, the Arts Centre and Cathedral Square. I forgot to mention we also have a gondola that goes up to the summit of the Port Hills (an extinct volcano that has been breached by the sea). For the North Island I would fly to Rotorua, drive to Wellington (take say 4 days)via the Central Plateau, catch a ferry across Cook Strait to Picton, and drive to Christchurch. Spend a day looking around town, then spend the rest of your time driving a loop around the South Island. May I suggest that you head south to Timaru, then go inland to Tekapo. Stay a night there and drive to Queenstown the following day. The day after that you look around Queenstown and drive to Wanaka in the evening (about 70km from Queenstown). Next day drive to Franz Josef. I would have gone further to Franz Josef. Franz Josef and Fox (town over the hill from FJ heading south)have two glaciers which are well worth a look. Go to Hokitika or Arthurs Pass the following day and drive to Christchurch on the last day. On the map here you see a road junction inbetween the towns of Hokitika and Greymouth. Turn right and follow that road to Arthurs Pass. Follow the road from Arthurs Pass to Christchurch. Map here is not the greatest and misses several important places out. Rob"}, {"response": 39, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, May 17, 2002 (13:48)", "body": "Great! My husband tried to email you and was informed that his message was \"in queue\", whatever that means. Hopefully you'll get it someday!"}, {"response": 40, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Mon, May 20, 2002 (03:02)", "body": "Hi all Cool! Best e-mail to try is lava.dome@eudoramail.com because I check it daily. Rob travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 48, "subject": "Canada", "response_count": 15, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul 10, 2001 (02:22)", "body": "Vancouver. I went to Spanish Banks today and Jericho Beach, walked around the Naval Museum. And the Granville Island Market was fun. We went to Mary Anne's and saw her wonderful garden with roses, rhododendruns out of bloom, hyacinths. But mainly the raspenberries and boysenberries. I am really struck at how well things grow in Vancouver and how the vines crawl all the way to the top of some of the biggest buildings. Peas. Lavender. Rosemary. Mint. Big leaf hostas (sp?). It's the growingest place! Now I'm hanging around Maple Ridge at a guys place who has a very successful wireless industrial control company. I'm just starting to get over currency exchange shock. I paid $40 today for three rolls of 60 minute Fuji DV tape. I'm paying with a credit card and trusting the banks will get it right. I saw some big silver building with a big Sony sign on it at Burnet and Grandview? What's this? May have been off United Way. I was lost at the time (I see a GPS in my future). Is this Vancouver's answer to the Metreon? Tomorrow on to Kamloops and other places, then back to Vancouver for more adventures. All the folks I'm visiting have \"at home\" so it's easy to plug this little Viao in to their networks. I'm taking lot's of DV video and stills with my little Sony PC-100. Everywhere we go folks are watching tapes of Rick Mercer. I made my own spoof tape with some Canadian folks. Tonight I also watched a documentary on the Mennonites and their trials in Russia and how they migrated to Canada and the US. It was a great documentary and gives me much more appreciation for the Mennonites."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug 13, 2001 (10:47)", "body": "I don't remember the name of the place where we ate in Steveston BC, it was right by the fishing boat docks and we ate on the second level. There was a great view from there. That's me holding open the front door in the picture as we enter the Steveston BC seafood restaurant. Some pictures of our BC trip: www.wholetech.com/apixbc/Page.html and on WholeTech"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 28, 2001 (09:51)", "body": "The Government of Canada http://canada.gc.ca/ http://www.canada.com/ Operated by CanWest, includes thirty Sotham newspapers, The CanWest global TV stations, and other online newspapers, carclick.com and careerclick.com travel, autos, careers, finance, free e-mail, news, shopping, sports, a business and people directory http://canada411.sympatico.ca/ Find a Person Trouver une personne Find a Business Trouver une entreprise http://www.newswire.ca/ Canada NewsWire Canada's clearing house of press releases. http://ca.yahoo.com/ http://ca-en.altavista.com/ http://www.nlc-bnc.ca/index-e.html The National Library of Canada http://www.canadacouncil.ca/ The Canada Council (for the arts) http://parkscanada.pch.gc.ca/ Parks Canada http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.html Citizenship and Immigration http://www.archives.ca/08/08_e.html National Archives of Canada http://www.canadapost.ca/segment-e.asp Canada Post http://www.cbc.ca/ the CBC - radio and TV including streaming content http://www.viarail.ca/ Via Rail http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ca.html World Factbook - What the CIA knows about Canada http://national.gallery.ca/ National Gallery of Canada http://www.tse.com/ The TSE - Toronto Stock Exchange http://www.cdnx.com/home.htm The Canadian Venture Exchange, the junior stock exchange, a merger of the VSE and the Alberta Stock Exchange and now owned by the TSE http://www.osm.ca/en/acceuil.asp Montreal Symphony Orchestra http://www.vanopera.bc.ca/ Vancouver Opera http://www.stratfordfestival.ca/2002/index.cfm The Stratford (ontario) Festival of plays http://www.vpl.vancouver.bc.ca/ The Vancouver Public Library http://www.umista.org/ The U'mista Cultural Society In earlier days, people were sometimes taken by raiding parties.J When they returned to their homes, either through payment of ransom or by retaliatory raid, they were said to have \"u'mista\".J The return of our treasures from distant museums is a form of u'mista. The U'mista Cultural Society was incorporated under the British Columbia Societies Act on March 22, 1974.J Since that time, it has worked towards fulfilling the mandate to ensure the survival of all aspects of cultural heritage of the Kwakwaka'wakw. http://rbcm1.rbcm.gov.bc.ca/ Royal BC Museum http://www.eciad.bc.ca/eciadMain/ Emily Carr Institute of Art+Design"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 28, 2001 (10:03)", "body": "A very cool, Canadian badminton site. Francois really does his homework when it comes to links to other sites. They all work! http://www.southsidebadminton.com/"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 28, 2001 (10:10)", "body": "http://www.laughlab.co.uk/home.html This study shows that Canadians are least likely to think jokes funny of all nationalities. Germans are easiest to tickle, America isn't far behind Germany."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr 18, 2002 (09:34)", "body": "We're bombing the Canadians! http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=1&cid=578&u=/nm/20020418/ts_nm/afghan_canada_bombing_dc_7 OTTAWA (Reuters) - Four Canadian soldiers were killed in Afghanistan (news - web sites) Thursday when a U.S. jet mistakenly fired on themduring a training exercise, and Ottawa said it was looking foranswers on how the accident took place. Defense Minister Art Eggleton told Reuters he was shocked by the incident in which a U.S. F-16 warplane dropped a500-pound laser-guided bomb on the soldiers, inflicting Canada's first casualties in a major combat operation since the 1950-53 Korean War. To make amends the president should crawl on his hands and knees to Ottawa, beg forgiveness and offer to drop the tax on Canadian lumber."}, {"response": 7, "author": "SBRobinson", "date": "Thu, Apr 18, 2002 (11:04)", "body": "Yikes! :-("}, {"response": 8, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May 11, 2002 (00:44)", "body": "*sigh* war is Hell and friendly fire happens. As long as we have to wage war this will happen. Randomly."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 2003 (16:20)", "body": "http://www.roadsideattractions.ca/hockey.jpg The world's largest hockey stick."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 29, 2003 (16:36)", "body": "Also, largest cross country skis. Makes you want to get up to Canada."}, {"response": 11, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 2003 (21:55)", "body": "It does?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 31, 2003 (08:56)", "body": "Well maybe not just those alone. But this might. (world's largest bathtub in Nanaimo, BC)"}, {"response": 13, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sat, Nov  1, 2003 (12:45)", "body": "You really go for all that kitsch, don't you Terry?!"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov  1, 2003 (13:04)", "body": "Ha! Yep."}, {"response": 15, "author": "sandyw", "date": "Sat, Nov  1, 2003 (13:29)", "body": "The bathtub is in reference to the world famous bathtub race from Nanaimo to Vancouver BC. It is held every July and brings racers from all around the world. The race is 30 miles across the Strait of Georgia and depending on the weather, can be quite dangerous. There is always a flotilla of boats to rescue those in need. On arrival in Vancouver, the racer must run about 20 yards up the beach and ring a ships bell. It's ususally quite funny because after being cramped up in their bathtub are very unsteady on their feet. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 49, "subject": "Barney Ebsworth, Art Collector", "response_count": 75, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:33)", "body": "NEWS RELEASE 3 March 2000 For Press Inquiries Only (202) 842-6353 NATIONAL GALLERY OF ART ACQUIRES SHEELER'S \"CLASSIC LANDSCAPE,\" DOVE'S \"MOON,\" AND THOMPSON'S \"TREE\" GIFTS FROM MR. AND MRS. BARNEY A. EBSWORTH Washington, D.C. -- It was announced this week by Earl A. Powell III, director, National Gallery of Art, that the Gallery has acquired from Mr. and Mrs. Barney Ebsworth of Saint Louis, Missouri, Charles Sheeler's Classic Landscape (1931), a masterpiece of precisionist painting; Arthur Dove's Moon (1935), an outstanding example of abstraction inspired by nature; and Bob Thompson's Tree (1962), a hallucinatory scene inspired by Goya, that is evocative of folk art and the artist's African heritage. The Ebsworth collection is considered to be one of the premier private holdings of American modernist art. Both paintings can be viewed in the exhibition Twentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection, on view in the Gallery's East Building, 5 March through 11 June 2000. \"This is only the most recent example of how the Ebsworths have been steadfast friends of the Gallery, which has benefited especially from their keen interest in our twentieth-century American paintings,\" said Powell. Sheeler (1883-1965) was a master of both painting and photography. Classic Landscape depicts a scene from the Ford Motor Company's River Rouge Plant near Detroit, which the artist had visited in 1927 on a photographic commission from the company. Sheeler called the subject \"incomparably the most thrilling I have had to work with\" and went on to produce several watercolor and oil paintings inspired by the River Rouge Plant. Classic Landscape is the best known of these and has been exhibited widely. It is a work of remarkable clarity and order, with extraneous details suppressed and the forms of buildings and other structures expressed as boldly simplified geometric forms. To Sheeler, this industrial scene was comparable to the highest architectural achievements of the classical past. Dove (1880-1946), a resourceful and imaginative individual and artist, was among the artists championed by renowned photographer and art dealer Alfred Stieglitz. After a highly experimental artistic phase in the 1920s and grinding poverty in the early 1930s, Dove returned to his family home in Geneva, New York. With support from collector Duncan Phillips, Dove entered a very productive period, during which he painted Moon. A tree covers the glowing moon with shades of brown, yellow, green, and red ranging in intensity from pale muddy tones to richly saturated hues. Painted with short, thinned, almost translucent brushstrokes over hues of different intensity, the surface appears luminous. Thompson (1937-1966), an African American artist and Kentucky native, has been likened to a meteor for his brilliant but brief life in art. He received his formal art training at the University of Louisville and continued his career in New York City and Europe. He started out as an abstract painter, but later shifted to figurative expressionism. Tree, executed during his time in Paris in 1962, is a fauve-hued painting derived from Goya's fantastic and moralistic etchings, Los Caprichos (1799). Thompson morphed Goya's figures, except the angel, into primitive animalistic forms, emphasizing their bestiality and sexual violence. Barney Ebsworth has been a member of the Gallery's Trustees' Council and co-chair of its Collectors Committee since 1996. In 1997 the Ebsworths gave the Gallery Or (1973), its first work by Pat Steir. In 1998 they funded the purchase of another painting by the same artist, the lyrically beautiful Curtain Waterfall (1991), and made a partial and promised gift of Georgia O'Keeffe's Black White and Blue (1930), one of the finest works from a rich period in her career."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:34)", "body": "FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Linda Williams, SAM Public Relations (206) 654-3166; email: pr@SeattleArtMuseum.org Outstanding Collection of American Modernist Art Comes to Seattle Art Museum Twentieth Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection Aug. 10-Nov. 12, 2000 SEATTLE, Nov. 9, 1999\ufffdA wide-ranging and exciting cross-section of American painting from the World War I era through the 1960s will be on view in Twentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection at the Seattle Art Museum, Aug. 10-Nov. 12, 2000. Collected by Barney A. Ebsworth, an executive who resides in St. Louis and summers in Seattle, the more than 70 works in the exhibition include masterpieces by Alexander Calder, Willem de Kooning, Arthur Dove, David Hockney, Edward Hopper and Georgia O\ufffdKeeffe. A small number of exceptional sculptures and works on paper will also be on view. The Ebsworth Collection comes to Seattle from the National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C., where it can be seen from March 5-June 11, 2000. The Seattle Art Museum will be the only other venue for the exhibition. \"We are very pleased to be able to present this exciting collection on the West Coast,\" says Trevor Fairbrother, SAM\ufffds Deputy Director of Art/Jon and Mary Shirley Curator of Modern Art. \"Barney Ebsworth has had an uncanny ability to recognize major art before it is fashionable, and his collection is outstanding.\" In recent years, Ebsworth has collected works from the 1950s and 1960s, including important works be Andy Warhol and Wayne Thiebaud. The Ebsworth Collection is organized by the National Gallery of Art, Washington, D.C., and curated by Nicolai Cikovsky, Jr., Senior Curator, and Franklin Kelly, Curator of American and British Painting. In Seattle, the installation and programming will be overseen by Trevor Fairbrother. The exhibition is accompanied by a catalog, which will be available in February 2000. It includes an essay by Professor Bruce Robertson of the University of California, Santa Barbara, as well as entries by Cikovsky, Kelly and other staff of the National Gallery."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:34)", "body": "20th-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection August 10 through November 12, 2000 On view at the Seattle Art Museum from August 10 through November 12, 2000, Twentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection includes more than seventy works from one of the premier important private collections of American modernism. The National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C., organized the exhibition and published the catalogue; SAM is the exhibition\ufffds only other venue. Visit the National Gallery of Art web site for additional online resources about this exhibit. Barney A. Ebsworth, who splits his time between St. Louis, Honolulu, and Seattle, first became interested in art while he was stationed in Paris during the Korean war. Originally interested in European art, Mr. Ebsworth began collecting American modernism in the early 1970s, a relatively new field of collecting at that time. In nearly three decades, Mr. Ebsworth has amassed a collection that is recognized as one of the top 200 world-wide. He and his wife, Pam, are both enthusiastic patrons of the arts: they have made many gifts to museums nation-wide, including a 1980 glass and steel Christopher Wilmarth work they gave to SAM in 1998. The Ebsworth collection covers the period from the seminal 1913 Armory Show in New York through the late 1960s. Beginning with William Glackens (1870-1938) and ending with David Hockney (b. 1937), the collection includes several dozen major paintings in addition to a number of works on paper and a group of sculpture. Many of the works in the Ebsworth collection show the influence of European painting on American modernism. One of the earliest works in the exhibition, Glackens\ufffd Caf\ufffd Lafayette (Portrait of Kay Laurell) (1914) recalls the style of Renoir. Andrew Dasburg (1887-1979), who submitted four works to the 1913 Armory Show, created Landscape (1913) after the style of C\ufffdzanne. Profoundly changed by the Armory Show, artists like Stuart Davis (1894-1964) completely shifted their painting styles. Influenced by cubist works he saw at the groundbreaking exhibition, Davis began creating works that used the flattened shapes of synthetic cubism. A trip to Paris in 1928 provided him with his signature subject matter of boldly colored Parisian street scenes. The Ebsworth collection also includes works by several artists in the circle of Alfred Stieglitz, photographer and owner of the galleries 291 and An American Place. These artists, including Arthur Dove (1880-1946), Marsden Hartley (1877-1943), John Marin (1870-1953), and Georgia O\ufffdKeeffe (1887-1986), all had a common interest in abstraction based on natural forms. Among the paintings from this group in the exhibition are O\ufffdKeeffe\ufffds Black White and Blue (1930) and Dove\ufffds Moon (1935). Edward Hopper (1882-1967) figures prominently in the Ebsworth collection, with two oil paintings and a watercolor. Among these works is one of his most famous canvases, Chop Suey (1929). In quintessential Hopper style, the painting shows city-dwellers in the interior of an urban building\ufffdhere, a second-floor Chinese restaurant. Like many of Hopper\ufffds figures, the two women seem disconnected despite their physical proximity. The work of several Precisionist painters also appears in the Ebsworth collection. Most prominent of these artists is Charles Sheeler (1883-1965), four of whose paintings are included in the exhibition. Sheeler, both a photographer and a painter, spent six weeks at the Ford Motor Company at River Rouge near Detroit. He made a photographic portrait of the plant; he also became interested in using similar subject matter in painting. Sheeler based Classic Landscape (1931), paired here with its 1928 watercolor, gouache and graphite study, on one of his River Rouge photographs. This work demonstrates Sheeler\ufffds ability to combine precisely rendered realism with formal abstraction. The Ebsworth collection also includes the work of several important post-war artists, including Jasper Johns (b. 1930), Franz Kline (1910-1962), Jackson Pollock (1912-1956), and Robert Rauschenberg (b. 1925). Members of the New York School, both Kline and Pollock were important figures in the Abstract Expressionist movement. Johns and Rauschenberg were pivotal figures in the birth of Pop art in the 1950s. The Pop art works include paintings by Andy Warhol (1928-1987), Wayne Thiebaud (b. 1920), and a painted plaster relief by Claes Oldenberg (b. 1929). The work of these artists, representing, respectively, a Campbell\ufffds Soup Can, a Bakery Counter, and a muscular arm that recalls the Arm and Hammer symbol, used familiar imagery in an attempt to break down the hierarchy between the \"high art\" of painting and the \"low art\" of consumer goods. Sculpture is an important component of the Ebsworth collection. There are outstanding works by Alexander Calder, Gaston Lachaise (1882-1935), Elie Nadelman (1882-1946), Theodore Roszak (1907-1981), and John Storrs (1885-1956). The sculpture dovetails with the paintings a"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:36)", "body": "http://yp.washingtonpost.com/E/E/WASDC/0001/65/62/cs1.html The Collection of a Century: Home-Grown Modernists By Jo Ann Lewis Special to The Washington Post Thursday, March 2, 2000 Consider the risk: For 30 years, one by one, you collect the best American modernist paintings (1913-45) money can buy \ufffd O'Keeffes, Hoppers and Sheelers when you can get them, and Aults, Guglielmis and Slobodkinas when you can't. You figure someday you'll give them all to an unspecified museum. But first, the ultimate test \ufffd museums want to take a harder look. And the best paintings are removed from the walls of your sunken living room and cozy den and shipped off to the National Gallery of Art, where they're hung like Old Masters in six tall galleries usually reserved for such crowd-pleasers as Calder and Gauguin. Can these paintings \ufffd many still scorned as knockoffs of European avant-gardists like Picasso, Braque and Mondrian \ufffd survive such public scrutiny? Just such a collection \ufffd \"Twentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection\" \ufffd goes on view Sunday in the National Gallery East Building. And, chances are, it will change a lot of musty preconceptions. This isn't the first time St. Louis travel tycoon Barney Ebsworth's collection has been subjected to the museum test. In 1987 there was an exhibition at the St. Louis Art Museum and then one in Honolulu. But much has changed since then, including major acquisitions that expand the collection well beyond its original parameters, which covered American modernist painting from the 1913 Armory Show to World War II. The collection now encompasses such postwar masters as Gorky, Pollock, de Kooning, Johns and Rauschenberg, who finally put American art on the world map. There are also some large showpieces that Ebsworth may have felt were needed to bolster public presentation of his collection, among them Andy Warhol's \"Campbell's Soup With Can Opener\" (1962), Wayne Thiebaud's delicious, frosting-slathered \"Bakery Counter\" (1962) and David Hockney's gigantic portrait \"Henry Geldzahler and Christopher Scott\" (1968-69), which hangs in Ebsworth's office. \"I haven't abandoned American modernism; it abandoned me,\" says Ebsworth as he walks through his show, explaining his newly expanded purview. \"I can no longer find paintings from the period that are good enough. And I want only the best.\" Trim, sunned and recently retired from Intrav, the luxury travel and cruise ship business he sold to a Swiss firm for $115 million, Barney Ebsworth, 66, flew in this week from his winter digs in Honolulu to celebrate what is, in effect, his international coming-out party. For though he's known to American museum curators as a potential lender \ufffd and is now listed among the world's top 100 or 200 collectors of American art \ufffd he has, until now, kept a low public profile. And it's never been clear exactly what he owns \ufffd apart from his most famous paintings, starting with Edward Hopper's dreamy, nostalgic scene of two women seated in a Chinese restaurant, titled \"Chop Suey\" (1929). A standout even in the Whitney Museum's recent \"American Century\" show, that painting was also shown here at the National Museum of American Art in 1993, along with several other Ebsworth masterworks by Marsden Hartley, Charles Sheeler, Arthur Dove and Joseph Stella. Ebsworth is a longtime supporter and former commissioner of NMAA. But now, for the first time, the whole collection is out for the world to see and for museum curators to start dreaming and drooling over. Some of the National Gallery's dreams have already come true: Ebsworth and his wife, Pam, revealed this week that they are giving three paintings to the gallery, including Dove's darkly romantic, nature-inspired \"Moon\" (1935) and Sheeler's precisionist masterpiece \"Classic Landscape\" (1931), a sleek, machine-age painting of the Ford Motor Co.'s then-new River Rouge assembly plant near Detroit, where the Model A was built. The painting is based on a Sheeler watercolor that Ebsworth bought long ago, thinking he could never own the painting. The watercolor and the painting hang together in this show, both inspired by Sheeler's earlier photographs of the new Ford plant, which he'd been commissioned to take for advertising purposes. Ebsworth has served on the National Gallery's Trustee Council and co-chaired its Collectors Committee since 1996, and he has made other gifts to the institution, including Georgia O'Keeffe's \"Black White and Blue,\" one of his two important O'Keeffe abstract paintings. He has also donated a work by contemporary American artist Pat Steir and paid for the purchase of another for the museum. At last night's opening, he was to announce yet another gift \ufffd the huge, enigmatic painting \"Tree\" (1962), by the African American artist Bob Thompson, who died in 1966 at age 29. Scrubbed Honesty It should be said up front that there is nothing grandiose about this show or the 74 paintings and the handful of sculptures in it. Rather, the lesser-known wo"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:50)", "body": "Ebsworth gets $81 million from Intrav sale to Swiss Cynthia Vespereny Barney Ebsworth will get $81.55 million in the sale of Intrav to a Swiss firm. Intrav, the deluxe travel company Ebsworth founded in 1959, is being purchased by Kuoni Reisen Holding of Zurich, which will pay $21.32 per share for Intrav, or $115 million. Ebsworth controls 3.825 million shares, or 74.8 percent of the company. The deal means an instant bounty of $4 million for Paul Duynhouwer, Intrav's president and chief executive officer, although most of his stake in the company is in stock options that normally vest over a period of years. Duynhouwer owns 46,000 shares valued at $981,000 under the deal and holds options on 260,000 shares. They would be valued at more than $3 million after paying $2.5 million to exercise the options. An incentive stock plan provides for accelerated vesting in the event of a change in control of the company. All options will be vested by the end of September, when the deal is completed, said Intrav spokeswoman Vanessa Tegethoff. The sale means a paycheck of $1 million for Chief Financial Officer Wayne Smith II, who owns just 400 shares but has options for 100,000, valued at $982,000 after paying $1.15 million to exercise them. Richard Hefler, senior vice president of sales and marketing, holds options on 28,000 shares. He can make $60,000 by exercising options granted since 1997 on 8,000 shares. The exercise price on the remaining 20,000, issued in 1995, could not be determined. Officers of Intrav could not be reached for comment. Intrav closed at $20 July 20, far from its 52-week low of $13.50. Among company directors, William H.T. Bush will get $405,000 for his 19,000 shares. Bush, the brother of former President George Bush, is chairman of Bush, O'Donnell & Co., an investment adviser in Clayton. John Biggs Jr., chairman and chief executive officer of Union Bank, will receive $42,600 for 2,000 shares, and Robert Chapman, chairman and chief executive officer of Barry-Wehmiller Cos., will get $12,800 for 600 shares. Ebsworth, who serves as chairman, will leave the company after the sale. Intrav's management will stay, and no layoffs are expected, said Tegethoff. Intrav will remain in St. Louis, she added. Intrav, which owns the Clipper Cruise Line, caters to affluent, sophisticated travelers looking for unusual trips. Among its offerings are around-the-world trips aboard the Concorde and African safaris. The Clipper Cruise Line features small vessels, which are attractive to travelers who already have done big-ship cruises. Kuoni Reisen said it hopes to strengthen its position in the United States through the acquisition. It currently has a sales office in Atlanta. Intrav went public in 1995. It reported earnings of $666,000, or 13 cents per share, on revenue of $25.9 million for the quarter ended March 31, compared to $985,000, or 19 cents per share, on sales of $26.7 million in the year-ago period."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:53)", "body": "3/6/2000 St. Louis article: Barney Ebsworth sold his travel company, Intrav, a year ago, but he's still taking his art collection on the road. Ebsworth and his wife, Pam Ebsworth, have given the National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C., two major 20th century American paintings: Charles Sheeler's \"Classic Landscape\" and Arthur Dove's \"Moon.\" The paintings are part of the couple's collection of more than 70 works of art, which are on loan for an exhibit at the National Gallery that opens March 5."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:55)", "body": "Art Appreciation A black-tie dinner at the East Building of the National Gallery of Art celebrated the museum\ufffds most recent exhibition of artwork from one of the premier private holdings of American modernist work\ufffdthat of Barney Ebsworth, an esteemed member of the Gallery\ufffds Trustees\ufffd Council and co-chair of its Collectors Committee. Entitled \ufffdTwentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection,\ufffd the exhibition of over 70 important paintings, sculptures, and drawings features such renowned artists as Georgia O\ufffdKeeffe, Edward Hopper, and Jackson Pollock, mixed in with the works of lesser-known talents like George Ault and Francis Criss. The result is a dramatic retrospective of the evolution of American Modernism. The exhibition will be on view through June 11, when it will then travel to the Seattle Art Museum."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (10:57)", "body": "Charles Sheeler, Classic Landscape (1931) Oil on canvas, 25 inches x 32.25 inches. The Collection of the Mr. and Mrs. Barney Ebsworth Foundation. William Carlos Williams Classic Scene A power-house in the shape of a red brick chair 90 feet high on the seat of which sit the figures of two metal stacks--aluminum-- commanding an area of squalid shacks side by side-- from one of which buff smoke streams while under a grey sky the other remains passive today--"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:00)", "body": "Occasionally, the bidding in this sector was much more bullish. Christie's $180,000/250,000 estimate on a tiny, early Rauschenberg 'Combine' painting, for instance, was totally disregarded, mainly by St.Louis collector, Barney Ebsworth, who paid $1.3 million for it."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:01)", "body": "Twentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection A lively discussion between collector Barney Ebsworth and Franklin Kelly, curator of American and British art, on the Ebsworth collection, one of the premier private holdings of American modernist art. 11 March 2000 Sorry about the above broken gifs, I'll fix 'em later. Terry"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:04)", "body": "Barney made the 1998 ARTnews list of the top 200 art collectors in the world."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:04)", "body": "Ebsworth Collection: Twentieth-Century Art In America By: Robertson, Bruce // Other Seattle Art Museum // Other Brock, Charles Hardcover/Clothcover//Illustrated 312 pages This book showcases the extraordinary collection of modern American masterworks assembled by Barney A. Ebsworth, a St. Louis businessman. Publisher: Harry N. Abrams Inc ISBN: 0810966999 More General - Art titles: Previous | Index | Next OUR PRICE where delivery is to: USA/Canada: US$49.50 Australia/NZ: A$138.50 Other Countries:US$79.70"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:05)", "body": "Die US-Schifffahrtsgesetze k\ufffdnnten die \ufffdbernahme der Luxusreisenfirma verhindern VON NADJA SIEBENMANN Z\ufffdrich - Wenige Wochen nachdem die Fusion zwischen Kuoni und First Choice gescheitert ist, schl\ufffdgt der Schweizer Reisekonzern erneut zu: Kuoni will den hochprofitablen US-Luxusreisenverk\ufffdufer Intrav kaufen. Im Gegensatz zur gescheiterten Fusion mit First Choice hat Kuoni hier die Zustimmung der Aktion\ufffdre auf Sicher: Firmengr\ufffdnder Barney Ebsworth, der 75 Prozent der Intrav-Aktien besitzt, hat der \ufffdbernahme, die rechtlich als Fusion abgewickelt wird, zugestimmt. Die notwendige Zweidrittelmehrheit ist somit bereits \ufffdberschritten. Doch die geplante Fusion mit Intrav enth\ufffdlt eine andere Knacknuss, die ausgerechnet das Kerngesch\ufffdft des amerikanischen Luxusreisenveranstalters betrifft: das \ufffdusserst lukrative Business mit Kreuzfahrten in den Gew\ufffdssern vor den amerikanischen K\ufffdsten"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:08)", "body": "'CLIPPER' PARENT INTRAV ACQUIRED BY A SWISS COMPANY: INTRAV, the St Louis, United States (US) based parent company of Clipper Cruise Line (CCL), was sold on 16 September to a Swiss group Kuoni Travel Holding Limited of Zurich for $US115M. INTRAV was founded in 1959 and today specialises in 'top of the market' escorted tours, including private-jet adventures, African safaries and small-ship cruising as conducted by CCL in remote areas such as Antarctica. According to Kuoni, INTRAV is highly profitable and in 1998 reported a turnover of $US126m, an operating income of $US10.3M, and a net income of $6.8M. Forecasts for 1999 are said to be \"excellent\". While INTRAV is a small company by US standards, industry observers in North America believe that the entry of a European company into their market is significant. Analysts see great potential for growth in US tourism to all parts of the world over the next decade as 'baby boomers' reach retirement age. Growth is anticipated as being particularly strong for relatively small-scale, remote area, operations offering natural 'experiences' with less crowding and high 'exclusivity', something INTRAV has specialised since its establishment. INTRAV founder Barney Ebsworth established CCL in 1982 and the two operated as separate companies until late 1996, when INTRAV having gone public the preceding year, bought CCL. Clipper first marketed Antarctic tours in 1993. While CCL's Antarctic operations are not likely to change signficantly in the short term, the company says that INTRAV and it \"have a slate of innovative adventures planned for 2000 and beyond\". These could involve additional activities in Antarctica. CCL currently operates four vessels, two of whom are scheduled to operate in the Antarctic and sub-Antarctic region in 1999-2000. One, the 5,000 tonne 'Clipper Odyssey', will conduct a single voyage to the Auckland Islands in the New Zealand sub-Antarctic in February. 'Odyssey', built in 1989 as the 'Oceanic Grace', was purchased by the company earlier this year and can carry up to 128 passengers. She visited the same region last season as 'Oceanic Odyssey'. The other Clipper vessel is the 122-passenger 'Clipper Adventurer'. It is scheduled to conduct nine Antarctic voyages between 13 November and 29 February. Seven of the nine are to the Antarctic Peninsula from either Ushuaia, Argentina, or Stanley in the Falkland Islands (Malvinas), while the other two also include visits to South Georgia and the South Orkney Islands. 'Clipper Adventurer' has operated in the Antarctic since 1994 , first as the 'Alla Tarasova', and for the past two seasons under its present name. Following its purchase of the vessel in 1998, CCL spent some $US16 million in refurbishing it for voyages to all parts of the world. The Kuoni Travel Group was established in 1906 by Alfred Kuoni a Swiss citizen and in addition to INTRAV, has holdings in nine European countries, Asia and India. Kuoni appointed one of its staffers, Ian Coghlan, as Chief Executive Officer of both INTRAV and CCL. He replaces former CEO Paul Duynhouwer who will be the majority owner and CEO of New World Ship Management Company, LLC, which has been formed to operate all four Clipper vessels, including the Bahamanian-registered 'Clipper Adventurer' and 'Clipper Odyssey', which operate in Antarctic and sub-Antarctic regions. Duynhouwer has the majority stake in CCL's other two vessels which are both US registered. [ANAN-6/02]"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:10)", "body": ""}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:13)", "body": "Falcon Mummy Case Egyptian, Ptolomaic Period, c. 332-30 B.C. Wood with polychrome and gilding Gift of Barney A. Ebsworth in honor of Sam and Mary Cooke, 1992 (6896.1)"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:21)", "body": "AYNE THIEBAUD AMERICAN, BORN 1920 BAKERY COUNTER, 1962 OIL ON CANVAS 139.4 x 182.6 cm (54 7/8 x 71 7/8) CREDIT: COLLECTION OF Mr. AND Mrs. BARNEY A. EBSWORTH"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:23)", "body": "Sheeler, Charles Classic Landscape 1931 Oil on canvas 24 3/4 x 32 1/4 in (63.5 x 81.9 cm) Mr and Mrs Barney A Ebsworth Foundation"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:25)", "body": "Egypt, Thebes Third Intermediate Period, 22nd Dynasty, 945-880 B.C. Mummy Cartonnage of Amen-Nestawy-Nakht, Priest of Amon, Son of a Pa-di-Amen linen, plaster, and pigments 66 inches long Gift of Mr. and Mrs. Barney A. Ebsworth for the children of St. Louis 109:1989 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amen-Nestawy-Nakht, a priest of Amun at Thebes, was given a very proper burial. His important position is reflected in the beautifully executed cartonnage, or painted plaster case, covering his linen-wrapped body. The style of painting evokes the beautiful reliefs and painted images so popular in New Kingdom tombs with elaborate coiffures, sumptuous detail, and fancy drapery. The sarcophagus of Amen-Nestawy-Nakht was discovered around 1860 in the Necropolis of Thebes, in what was then called the Valley of the Nobles. It still contains its mummy. ."}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:28)", "body": "9/14/2000 20th-CENTURY AMERICAN ART: THE EBSWORTH COLLECTION Over 70 works, mostly modernist, collected by Barney A. Ebsworth, who started out collecting 16th- and 17th-century Dutch paintings, but got discouraged when he realized that all \"the great pictures [were] gone.\" There must have been some goodies left from the postwar era; Ebsworth acquired a nifty set of works--no real masterpieces, though--by (among others) de Kooning, Sheeler, and Hockney. Through Nov 12."}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:32)", "body": ""}, {"response": 22, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:34)", "body": "Operator: Clipper Cruise Line Year Built / Last Refurbished: 1984 / 1992 Length / Tonnage: 207 / 99 Number of Cabins / Passengers: 51 / 102 Officers / Crew: American / American Operating Area: Year-round USA and Caribbean Review by Mark H. Goldberg, TravelPage.com, Cruise Editor, and Christopher E. Smith, TravelPage.com, Associate Cruise Editor Good things do come in small packages....so it follows that a good cruise can be had on a small ship....and I like to call Clipper Cruise Line's vessels the Rolls Royces of the \"explorer ship\" class....that is, the kind of ship not suited to traveling the oceans, but designed for protected coastal waterways, rivers, canals and lakes. When it comes to service, accommodation and food, Clipper is the cream of the crop. Founded in 1982 by Barney A. Ebsworth, of St. Louis, Clipper quickly became known for taking 100 passengers at a time in style to some of the most remote and least visited ports in North America....places barred to any ship over 100 tons. That's what sets Clipper apart from the others....their cruises offer a pace similar to a leisurely motor trip where you are in charge of your itinerary. Clipper always docks close in to the main attractions of any port. So without muss or fuss, wander ashore....enjoy the scenery at your pace.....and breath a sigh of relief that where ever your ship takes you, the local color won't be tainted by 6 or 700 other passengers destroying the mood. No atrium, no casino, no techno colored cocktail lounge and no ballroom await you on the NANTUCKET CLIPPER or YORKTOWN CLIPPER. But then again, those things aren't available in your car, and since a Clipper Cruise is very similar to an ultra luxe motor trip, you wouldn't want to see them here anyway. But the one lounge on board is one of the finest living rooms you could ask for. Dubbed the Observation Lounge on both vessels, it is just that....with huge always clean windows with views to both sides and forward, I cannot think of a better location to enjoy the endless scenery you will enjoy on a Clipper cruise. The sofas are comfortable and designed for you to linger a little longer, and there's plenty of room to accommodate everyone for a port lecture, cocktail party or folklore presentation. As Clipper Cruises says, \"naturalists and historians replace variety shows and bingo.\" You will find that the decor is soothing, restful, and has been finished to a high quality.....a lot of thought went into the design of the room, and as it is the one indoor venue aboard (not counting the dining room), that thoughtfulness is much appreciated. Of course, there is a small bar off to the side, and it is well stocked with a full selection of wines, beers and spirits priced between $2 and $5 per drink but people like me who never developed an appreciation for the products of the distiller's, brewer's or vintner's arts will also be happy to know that the bar also serves coffee, tea, juices and soft drinks. There's no charge for these soft drinks....I think that's a real nice Clipper touch... Ever mindful that many passengers will prefer to be outdoors on a Clipper Cruise, there is a narrow but useful wrap around promenade deck, where, during certain hours of the day, you are invited to work off some calories. So rest assured that while on board Clipper's ships, you needn't be resigned to a sedentary lifestyle. To that extent, these ships have no elevators. With so few passengers carried, you can expect a high level of quality, and because the ship is in port more than not, freshness of ingredients is always assured. The cuisine is decidedly American in nature....no, not burgers and franks, but regional cuisine of the highest order, thoughtfully presented and always delicious. Clipper chefs are graduates of America's most prestigious cooking school, the Culinary Institute. You cannot expect a never ending menu with selection after selection, but if you are at all fussy about what you eat, or your doctor has put the red light on certain food groups, Clipper, with advance notice, will be happy to accommodate you in any way they can.....but please don't ask them for pickled hummingbird wings or chocolate covered ants."}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:36)", "body": "All meals are prepared to order and served a la carte.....there is never any skimping or cost cutting in these dining rooms. By the way, your meals are served in one sitting....and because Clipper attracts a fair number of singles and often sails with less than three persons booked into rooms that can serve as triples, couples who want to eat alone can often be served at a four top doing double duty as a table for two... Since the line has an open seating policy, you might want to know that Breakfast is served at 8:00AM, Lunch at 12:30PM and dinner at 7:00...Since early-risers tend to predominate aboard these small beauties, catering crew sets up a buffet in the Lounge early every morning so anyone waking up before the dining room opens at 8:00AM can eat. A few hours later a soup and sandwich buffet in the lounge attracts any number of people who want only a light bite at midday and every fan of the grape will be glad to know that the ships' wine lists feature bottled wine priced between $15 and $30 per bottle. Would you care for an inside cabin? Sorry.....Clipper Cruises wouldn't do that to you, especially on any of their scenic trips. So even in their least expensive digs, expect an outside view with two portholes. The cabins are cozy, beautifully fitted and comfortable.....but you'll prefer your cocktail party for a dozen people be held in the lounge....these cabins aren't designed for that. But they are designed for comfortable sightseeing...that is, most cabins have large windows so even if you cannot get out of bed at the crack of dawn, you can sightsee while you head rests on your pillow. All the cabins have showers in their admittedly tiny private bathrooms, all cabins have two lower beds (sorry, honeymooners), and all some have an upper pullman for a \"fifth wheel\". There is sufficient drawer and closet space, but don't overpack....besides, the onboard atmosphere stresses comfort, not formality, so a sport coat or cocktail dress is suggested only during the Welcome Aboard and Farewell parties. Though there is no laundry on board, the cruise director will bend over backwards to get your emergency cleaning done by a shoreside laundry, time permitting of course. So back to the cabins, for a moment. What's the best one to reserve? Well, some cabins have their doors opening out to the promenade deck....others are accessed by an inside corridor. Some have views onto the deck, with others right against the ship's side. The three least expensive cabin types have beds parallel to one another, while the three highest graded cabin types offer beds in an \"L\" shape."}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:39)", "body": "My problem in deciding which cabin to select comes from the fact that all of them are good. There's no such thing as a bad location, and you are never far from anything on a Clipper. Be it my imagination or not, there seems to be a sense of extra space in the cabins fitted with the \"L\" shape beds. But because the most important feature to me on any ship is having a view, I'd be happy in any cabin here. And any of you who share my passion for collecting those nifty miniature toiletries..you know...the distinctly packaged soaps and shampoos will be pleased to find that Clipper has not forgotten to accommodate your hobby...the bathrooms are stocked with these little items and replenished as needed...Forgot your razors or other sundry item and need something while the ship is underway? No problem..the cruise director is able to help out and provide you with it. These Clipper ships are perfect extensions of a country club...ideal for people who love to golf (some Clipper cruises are themed as golf cruises and passengers always get good tee times at a nearby course when a Clipper is in port.) Anyone who ever answered to the name \"preppy\" ought to love a Clipper cruise. Most passengers are over 40, couples predominate....though cerebral 20 or 30 somethings might feel at home here too. A BIG HINT...if you choose Clipper, you might do well to leave the kids at home because the ships have no facilities to amuse them, and Clipper passengers tend not to coo over a stranger's infant. If you like bright lights, big show lounges, great production numbers, constant amusement and entertainment, these boats are not for you. A perfect Clipper passenger? ME!!!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:39)", "body": "In a few words.....Clipper itineraries are the greatest!!! Designed for the \"been there, done that\" travel set, each itinerary offers ports or in some cases stops where nature's wonders are the highlight. In the winter, cruises either seven or eleven nights will deliver you to some of the Caribbean and Central America's most exotic and off the beaten path ports. As the ship has no on board pool, passengers are invited to take a dip in the warm ocean, stepping right into the drink from the side of the ship. Snorkel gear is provided, so don't forget a swim suit. Other voyages offer days of exploration on the Orinoco River of Venezuela. The eight night Costa Rica itinerary takes all the headaches out of visiting that scenically stunning country."}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:40)", "body": "During the spring, summer and fall, one of the Clipper ships pokes around the Sea of Cortez, makes Alaska cruises that will fulfill the naturalists among you, or visits in depth the San Juan Islands and out of the way ports in British Columbia. Pleasing choo choo enthusiasts, Clipper has come up with some fun rail/cruise adventures, which include destinations as far inland as Santa Fe, New Mexico! For east coast denizens, do not despair! In a variety of cruise lengths and seasons, Clipper comprehensively visits every worth while port from Jacksonville, Florida to the Great Lakes. Whichever Clipper itinerary you select, be assured that you will given plenty of time to really get to know a region. Only on a handful of Clipper trips does the ship remain \"at sea\" all day, and when it does, the passing scenery will be fascinating. Do you have to be physically fit ..."}, {"response": 27, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:40)", "body": "to get the most out of your Clipper Cruise? Well, it doesn't hurt, but even couch potatoes like me can have a fantastic time. But to get the most out of the trip, you should be prepared for a fair amount of walking.....but always at your pace. Clipper Cruise Line is a nonsmoking world now. You are invited to puff away outdoors, but that's the only place on board where you can do so. We love the well scrubbed all American crew, young, eager, and thoroughly capable...You didn't ask but I'll tell you anyway...tips are pooled and shared among crew (not officers) and the Line recommends an amount of $9 per person per day...Give more if you like...these people really do work hard and sure do appreciate it! A Clipper cruise is not recommended for first timers or anyone in search of anonymity....crew and fellow passengers get to know everyone by name in no time ....most people love that. Similarly, newcomers to travel might not be able to fully appreciate the point purpose and experience of a Clipper cruise, but anyone culturally aware and thirsty for knowledge ought to really enjoy it. The brochure rates don't look cheap, but tally up the costs for a air or motor trip to some of these places...making sure you've put into your budget first or deluxe class accommodations and fine dining every meal...suddenly, a cruise on Clipper looks pretty affordable, for what you get."}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:41)", "body": "The above from http://www.cruiseserver.net/travelpage/ships/cl_nantuck.asp"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:42)", "body": "http://www.artnet.com/magazine/news/tully/tully5-20-97.asp The most exciting moment in that overbaked sale, however, was the record set for Wayne Thiebaud's delightful and pastry-rich Bakery Counter (1962). It went for a record $1.7 million (est. $650,000-$850,000) to savvy St. Louis collector Barney Ebsworth. New York dealer Allan Stone first sold it in 1962 for $3,000."}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:43)", "body": "\"There was an article about Build-A-Bear in the newspaper and Barney Ebsworth with Windsor Capital, saw it and called me, saying he wanted to invest in the company,\" she states. \"His call changed our destiny and has taken us to the next level.\" The other partners, Walnut Capital and Kansas City Equity Partners, followed. http://www.stlcommercemagazine.com/archives/april2000/cover.html"}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:44)", "body": "Ebsworth One of the minor miracles of art history is that, in the space of a relative instant, American artists moved from the back of the bus to the driver's seat of the 20th-century modernist movement. While our countrymen reacted with shock and outrage to the contemporary European paintings shown at the 1913 Armory Show in Manhattan, by the 1940s New York was the recognized center of the avant-garde. The extremely high-quality collection of Mr. and Mrs. Barney Ebsworth of St. Louis provides a splendid overview of American art throughout this vibrant evolutionary period and beyond. Twentieth-Century Art: The Ebsworth Collection is on display at the National Gallery of Art through June 11. The show features the work of artists like William Glackens, Andrew Dagsburg and Preston Dickinson who owe a manifest debt to their French counterparts. But we quickly encounter works by Americans who, while assuredly working along the same art historical continuum, forge off in new directions, developing styles we associate with them, rather than their influences. There are the oddly undulating neighborhoods of Charles Burchfield: a little scary, a little funny, a little disturbing, but absolutely unique, and the pared-down images of Arthur Dove and Georgia O'Keefe that tend to keep a foothold in visual reality, but explore the formal, abstract elements of art. Then we come to Pollack and de Kooning, New York School artists who helped establish America's creative primacy through their boldly-gestural, energetic abstract expressionist paintings, and then on to the likes of Andy Warhol, Wayne Thiebaud and Claes Oldenburg who took over with their deadpan images from popular culture. You'll see them all here, along with a few works of less renowned artists, but of equal talent. While the Ebsworths have not set out to create a comprehensive catalog of 20th-century American art, they have assembled an engaging synopsis of its highlights. http://www.jrnl.net/news/00/May/jrn0070500.html"}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:46)", "body": "http://www.newartexaminer.org/archive/junerubin.html The last two collectors we visited, Donald Bryant and Barney Ebsworth, have much in common. They are very successful businessmen, living in the exclusive Ladue section of the city, are listed in Artnews as top world collectors, and consider their collecting a kind of stewardship. Though they both are forthcoming\ufffdmuch like Donald Trump, the New York City real estate mogul\ufffdabout the art of their deals, their styles differ. Bryant is a titan. His no-nonsense approach is that of a man totally in command. He likes to talk about first options, those deals in which he comes out on top, negotiating with artist's estates, and his extreme patience in waiting (sometimes for years) for the artwork he wants. On the other hand, Ebsworth, somewhat more reticent, likes to talk about \"the one that got away.\" After passing a large Gaston Lachaise sculpture situated at the entrance of the Barney Ebsworth home, our minds still boggled from the Bryant collection, we were welcomed by our host, his wife, another art dog named Lily Langtree, and a silver tray holding mimosas. Ebsworth, who is in the travel business (he once owned Royal Cruise), after an all-too-quick introductory tour of his collection, which he described as concentrating on Modernism from 1913 to 1970, gave us free reign to explore as we would. The first and second floors were open to us, the third, verboten. Once again, we were regaled by a collection of Who's Who. Wherever we turned, paintings by O'Keefe, DeKooning, Pollock, Tooker, Birchfield, Hopper, Sheeler, Lautrec, Bierstadt, Marin, Gorky, Johns, Hockney, Thiebaud, and Warhol, to mention only a few, jumped out at us. In a kind of general consensus, we agreed to be absolutely stunned by the beauty of Joseph Stella's Tree of Life of 1919 and totally enamoured of an Alice Neel pastel of a young man sleeping. The surprise of this visit was a clandestine trip to the third floor where Ebsworth's wife Pamela (upon my pushy request) revealed Marsden Hartley's homoerotic self-portrait of the artist posing as a bleeding Christ in the Crucifixion. In wandering into a room to get a closer view of another painting, I ended up in Ebsworth's closet. It was most impressive: I counted 37 suits and 39 pairs of shoes before I stopped. Ebsworth, whose modus operandi is, \"I try to get the best and then I try to top it,\" is something of a storyteller. His observation that curators and many dealers may be looking but aren't seeing, followed by numerous stories of paintings being mis-described and hung upside down, was particularly telling. It was his off-hand mention of the Hartley painting (though one of his favorite paintings, he hides it to placate his wife who finds it much too violent) that triggered my seeking it out. The Ebsworth collection will be traveling to the National Gallery of Art and the Seattle Art Museum next year. While I was smitten with Saint Louis and would certainly love to return (my actual viewing time at the museum and exposure to the city were far too short), it was the private collections that moved me, that set me to thinking about the nature of collecting, the fervor of private collections versus the muted coldness of public ones. Visiting these private collections, each assembled by a single intellect (if not eye), and fueled by individual desire, reminded me not of the Museum of Modern Art's languishing, permanent, committee-chosen, textbook collection (which few of us writers had visited in years), or for that matter, the Whitney Museum of American Art's, but of the many smaller, more personal museums where local minds hold sway. The Memorial Art Gallery in Rochester and the McNay Art Institute in San Antonio come to mind. By virtue of the size and the nature of its collection, The Saint Louis Art Museum may fall into this category too. It is in these museums and even more so in private collections that passion is given a running chance. It is here where surprises ring out, idiosyncracies are common, perversities permitted, new names discovered, old names in unexpected styles resurface, and paintings still breathe life. Ed Rubin is a writer on the arts and National Field Director of Audits & Surveys Worldwide in New York."}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:49)", "body": "Washington University Olin School of Business Distinguished Alumni Award: Barney A. Ebsworth BSBA'56 Chairman Windsor, Inc. St. Louis, Missouri"}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:51)", "body": "http://www.kcstar.com/projects/canyonsuite/content/file/whatswrong.html Barney Ebsworth, a prominent art collector and a friend of both O'Keeffe's and Kemper's, came over from St. Louis for the dinner. Ebsworth had expected to marvel at some of O'Keeffe's first mature masterpieces. What came over him instead was a rather creepy feeling -- that these weren't O'Keeffes at all. \"I was very afraid,\" Ebsworth said. \"But it was a little late for me to say anything. They were hanging on my friend's walls.\" (KC Star article about the selling of the Canyone Suite)"}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:52)", "body": "http://www.tfaoi.com/newsm1/n1m223.htm The Collectors Committee Since 1975 the Collectors Committee has made possible the acquisition of one hundred eighty-nine works of art. Approximately half of the committee's acquisitions have been works by living artists. The committee was formed in 1975 under the leadership of Ruth Carter Stevenson, chairman of the Gallery's Board of Trustees from 1993-1997. It is currently chaired by Barney A. Ebsworth and Doris Fisher, both major collectors of twentieth-century art. Ebsworth, from St. Louis, is the owner of INTRAV, a travel company, and Clipper Cruise Lines. Fisher, who lives in San Francisco, is co-founder with her husband, Donald, of The Gap."}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (11:54)", "body": "Yet there were lots that went so far above their estimates that even the experts seemed baffled. Robert Rauschenberg's \"Untitled\" (1954), one of the artist's earliest examples of his Combine series, was estimated at $180,000 to $250,000. It sold to Barney A. Ebsworth, a St. Louis collector for $1.3 million. As dealers were leaving the sale, many said they were confused about the evening's results. \"It was too bad the estimate on the Twombly was so greedy,\" said Charles Cowles, the SoHo dealer. \"But the market is sure strong for good pictures.\" http://www.tamu.edu/mocl/picasso/news/nytimes11109.html"}, {"response": 37, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:14)", "body": "j http://law.touro.edu/2ndCircuit/Pre95/91-9250.html TRAVELLERS INTERNATIONAL, A.G. and WINDSOR, INC., Plaintiffs-Appellees, - v.- TRANS WORLD AIRLINES, INC., Defendant-Appellant. Also in 1986, Travellers and TWA both experienced changes in management. Carl Icahn completed a takeover of TWA and became its chairman and chief executive officer. Later in the year, Gerald Herrod, the founder and chairman of Travellers, decided to sell his business. After Icahn turned down the opportunity to purchase Travellers, Herrod sold the company to Windsor, Inc., a Missouri-based company owned by Barney Ebsworth The business relations between TWA and Travellers soured early in 1987. Icahn implemented an aggressive policy to control costs and increase revenue margins in an attempt to reverse TWA's fortunes. TWA considered that the fees paid to Travellers for designing the Getaway brochures, and the costs of producing and distributing them, presented a cost-cutting opportunity, and that TWA would substantially increase its margin on pre-packaged tours if it brought the Getaway program \"in house.\" In a contentious meeting held on August 5, 1987, Icahn offered to buy Travellers for the same price Ebsworth had paid in 1986, and Ebsworth refused. According to Ebsworth's testimony, Icahn then turned the conversation to Travellers' precarious reliance upon TWA as its \"only customer\" and threatened to cancel the joint venture agreement unless Ebsworth sold his company to TWA."}, {"response": 38, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:15)", "body": "SigEp Citation The Fraternity's recognition of a brother who has excelled in his career field. The Citation, an embossed scroll, is awarded to a select few alumni at each Grand Chapter Conclave. Barney A. Ebsworth (1989), Missouri Beta, Washington University-St. Louis, '57; Founder, Chairman, Intrav, international travel company. (1989), Missouri Beta, Washington University-St. Louis, '57; Founder, Chairman, Intrav, international travel company."}, {"response": 39, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:15)", "body": "The New York Times reported that Barney A. Ebsworth, the St. Louis collector, was the buyer of an early, small and fine Robert Rauschenberg at the auction for $1.3 million, way over its estimate of $180,000 to $230,000. http://www.thecityreview.com/f99c20e.html"}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:16)", "body": "Dragon Tales - September 20 - October 3, 1998: The Church ... ... a year of rehabbing, the Alec W. Ebsworth Memorial House at 7062 Emma is ready for occupancy. The house was donated by Mr. and Mrs. Barney A. Ebsworth in 1997. ..."}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:18)", "body": "AUGUST 2000 August 10, 5:30pm - LECTURE - Conversation with Barney Ebsworth: Opening Night Lecture - In conjuction with the exhibition, \"Twentieth Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection\", Mr. Ebsworth will discuss his collection with Trevor Fairbrother, Deputy Director of Art/Jon and Mary Shirley, Curator of Modern Art. Tickets: $7, students/seniors $2. Seattle Art Museum, Plestcheeff Auditorium, 100 University Ave, Seattle, WA, tel (206)654-3100. [May 00]"}, {"response": 42, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:19)", "body": "Kuoni/INTRAV Deal Finalized ST. LOUIS, September 16, 1999 \ufffd Swiss-based Kuoni Travel Holding Ltd. today finalized its $115-million acquisition of INTRAV, the U.S. luxury tour operator, and its subsidiary, Clipper Cruise Line, which are based in St. Louis. Effective immediately, Ian Coghlan will become CEO of both companies, replacing Paul H. Duynhouwer, who has acquired a majority stake in Clipper\ufffds two U.S.-flag ships, the Nantucket Clipper and the Yorktown Clipper. In addition, Duynhouwer will be the majority owner and CEO of New World Ship Management, LLC, formed to operate all four Clipper ships, including the U.S.-flag ships, as well as the Bahamian-registered Clipper Adventurer and Clipper Odyssey. Coghlan was educated in the U.K. and joined Kuoni in 1985 in the finance department. He soon moved to the tour-operations side of the business with responsibility for costings and yield control. Coghlan became deputy managing director of Kuoni U.K. in 1998, and took overall responsibility for finance, information technology, personnel and administration functions for the U.K. subsidiary, which is headed by Managing Director Peter Diethelm. The INTRAV acquisition marks Kuoni\ufffds first major entry in the U.S. market under the newly formed Strategic Business Unit (SBU) for the U.K. and North America. Peter Diethelm, member of Kuoni\ufffds group executive board and head of the SBU, remains executive chairman of Kuoni U.K., chairman of the two Kuoni Caribbean hotels, and president of INTRAV. INTRAV\ufffds founder and former chairman, Barney A. Ebsworth, 65, has retired to devote his time to his collection of art, which is considered to be among America\ufffds best. The Kuoni Travel Group, which also has holdings in nine European countries, Asia and India, is based in Zurich, where the company was established in 1906 by Alfred Kuoni, a Swiss citizen. In 1998 Kuoni won the \"World Travel Award\" as the world\ufffds leading tour operator, which is awarded based on votes cast by travel agents worldwide. More information on Kuoni can be found on their corporate Web site at http://www.kuoni.com , or on their U.K. Web site at http://www.kuoni.co.uk . INTRAV, founded in 1959, offers discerning travelers a wide array of deluxe, escorted tours, which include \"beyond-first-class\" private-jet adventures such as Around the World by Private Concorde, small-ship cruises, and African safaris. Clipper, formed in 1982, is known for it substantive worldwide itineraries aboard its comfortably appointed small ships, and has been named one of the top-ten cruise lines in the world for the past four years by the readers of Cond\ufffd Nast Traveler magazine. Both companies have a slate of innovative adventures planned for 2000 and beyond. Brochures and more information on INTRAV and Clipper\ufffds programs are available by contacting either company at 7711 Bonhomme Ave., St. Louis, Missouri 63105, INTRAV telephone: (800) 456-8100, Clipper telephone: (800) 325-0010, or on the companies\ufffd Web sites at http://www.intrav.com and http://www.clippercruise.com . # # #"}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (12:21)", "body": "TWENTIETH-CENTURY AMERICAN ART: The Ebsworth Collection: Mr and Mrs Barney A. Ebsworth of St. Louis, Missouri, have bought paintings and sculptures to please themselves. More than 70 works from their collection, described as \"one of the premier private holdings of American modernist art\" tell the story of the development of such art from the 1913 Armory show in New York to the 1960s. From William Glackens to Andy Warhol, via Georgia O'Keeffe, Suzy Frelinghuysen, David Hockney and Jackson Pollock. National Gallery of Art, Fourth Street at Constitution Avenue, N.W., Washington D.C. 20565 USA. Tel. +1 202 737 4215. Until 11 June. k"}, {"response": 44, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (15:58)", "body": "7/26/99 St Louis Business Journal Ebsworth gets $81 million from Intrav sale to Swiss Cynthia Vespereny Barney Ebsworth will get $81.55 million in the sale of Intrav to a Swiss firm. Intrav, the deluxe travel company Ebsworth founded in 1959, is being purchased by Kuoni Reisen Holding of Zurich, which will pay $21.32 per share for Intrav, or $115 million. Ebsworth controls 3.825 million shares, or 74.8 percent of the company. The deal means an instant bounty of $4 million for Paul Duynhouwer, Intrav's president and chief executive officer, although most of his stake in the company is in stock options that normally vest over a period of years. Duynhouwer owns 46,000 shares valued at $981,000 under the deal and holds options on 260,000 shares. They would be valued at more than $3 million after paying $2.5 million to exercise the options. An incentive stock plan provides for accelerated vesting in the event of a change in control of the company. All options will be vested by the end of September, when the deal is completed, said Intrav spokeswoman Vanessa Tegethoff. The sale means a paycheck of $1 million for Chief Financial Officer Wayne Smith II, who owns just 400 shares but has options for 100,000, valued at $982,000 after paying $1.15 million to exercise them. Richard Hefler, senior vice president of sales and marketing, holds options on 28,000 shares. He can make $60,000 by exercising options granted since 1997 on 8,000 shares. The exercise price on the remaining 20,000, issued in 1995, could not be determined. Officers of Intrav could not be reached for comment. Intrav closed at $20 July 20, far from its 52-week low of $13.50. Among company directors, William H.T. Bush will get $405,000 for his 19,000 shares. Bush, the brother of former President George Bush, is chairman of Bush, O'Donnell & Co., an investment adviser in Clayton. John Biggs Jr., chairman and chief executive officer of Union Bank, will receive $42,600 for 2,000 shares, and Robert Chapman, chairman and chief executive officer of Barry-Wehmiller Cos., will get $12,800 for 600 shares. Ebsworth, who serves as chairman, will leave the company after the sale. Intrav's management will stay, and no layoffs are expected, said Tegethoff. Intrav will remain in St. Louis, she added. Intrav, which owns the Clipper Cruise Line, caters to affluent, sophisticated travelers looking for unusual trips. Among its offerings are around-the-world trips aboard the Concorde and African safaris. The Clipper Cruise Line features small vessels, which are attractive to travelers who already have done big-ship cruises. Kuoni Reisen said it hopes to strengthen its position in the United States through the acquisition. It currently has a sales office in Atlanta. Intrav went public in 1995. It reported earnings of $666,000, or 13 cents per share, on revenue of $25.9 million for the quarter ended March 31, compared to $985,000, or 19 cents per share, on sales of $26.7 million in the year-ago period."}, {"response": 45, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:00)", "body": "Ebsworth exhibition an American beauty Collection surveys nation's outstanding modernists Thursday, August 10, 2000 By REGINA HACKETT SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER ART CRITIC A cool, silver-gray can opener lined with black shadows rises diagonally across canvas space, its blunt edge buried in the cool, silver-gray lid of a Campbell's soup can. In 1962, when Andy Warhol painted it, its impersonal banality was remarkable. Today, the opposite is true. Far from being banal, Warhol's soup cans have acquired a high art luster, and this example, in casein and pencil on linen, has a vulnerable, homemade quality. Instead of being oddities, Warhol's cans are cornerstones of the contemporary era. \"Campbell's Soup With Can Opener\" is the first thing visitors see upon entering \"Twentieth-Century American Art: The Ebsworth Collection\" at the Seattle Art Museum. The exhibit comes to Seattle from Washington D.C.'s National Gallery of Art, where it opened earlier this year. Pam and Barney Ebsworth are St. Louis collectors who spend summers in Seattle and specialize in American modernism. That's a phrase that irritated Jackson Pollock, to whom it certainly applied."}, {"response": 46, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:01)", "body": "National Gallery gets 2 major works Wednesday, March 1, 2000 The Associated Press WASHINGTON -- The National Gallery of Art said Tuesday that it has received two major 20th century American paintings as gifts. One, Charles Sheeler's \"Classic Landscape,\" is a famous image of the Ford River Rouge plant near Detroit. The other, Arthur Dove's \"Moon,\" illustrates the painter's role as a pioneer of abstract art drawn from nature. They are part of the collection of Mrs. and Mrs. Barney Ebsworth of St. Louis that goes on show at the gallery Sunday. The collection will be on view through June 11 at the gallery and Aug. 10 through Nov. 12 at the Seattle Art Museum. The Ebsworth collection covers American art since 1913 -- paintings, sculpture, and drawings. It includes works from such leading figures as Georgia O'Keeffe, Alexander Calder, Andy Warhol, and Edward Hopper. Ebsworth, a wealthy businessman who has retired from the travel industry, has been collecting art for 30 years. He is a member of the gallery's Trustees' Council. The Ebsworths have given the gallery two other works in the past, and have made a partial and promised gift of another, by O'Keeffe. http://www.bergenrecord.com/morenews/art01200003018.htm"}, {"response": 47, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:06)", "body": "Warhol's soup can among American work on show at National Gallery By Carl Hartman Associated Press WASHINGTON -- Andy Warhol painted dozens of Campbell's soup cans, but the one included in a National Gallery of Art show that opens Sunday may be unique: A can opener sticks boldly out the top. It belongs to the collection of Mr. and Mrs. Barney Ebsworth. He is a retired St. Louis businessman, who for the past 30 years has collected American art from the early 20th century to 1969. Jeffrey Weiss, the gallery's curator of modern and contemporary art, sees the can opener as important. \"Part of the point of that is that Warhol sometimes was able to bring a certain kind of emotional impact to these images that seem otherwise completely neutral and deadpan and blank,\" Weiss said in an interview. \"He's got this kind of happy consumer image, but the can opener opening it makes it feel like it's being invaded or violated in a way.\" Some of Warhol's soup cans are actual size: one series of 32, Weiss said, illustrates each of the Campbell varieties -- but Warhol had no commercial connection with Campbell's. The 32 paintings are designed to be mounted one after another on one wall. Big ones like the six-foot tall painting in the Ebsworth collection are rare. Weiss said he knows of just four or five of them. Ebsworth is giving the gallery two of the more than 70 works being shown. He's keeping the Warhol, which has been exhibited in Britain, France, Italy, Germany and the United States. The gifts are Charles Scheeler's \"Classic Landscape,\" a view of the Ford Motor Co.'s River Rouge plant near Detroit, an up-to-the-minute industrial site when it was painted in 1927. The other is \"Moon\" by Arthur Dove, typical of his work derived from nature. Dove was a pioneer of abstract paintings, producing them before many European artists. Ebsworth's collection harks back to 1913, the landmark year when a show at New York's Lexington Avenue Armory gave the American art world its first big taste of work by Pablo Picasso and other artists working in France. Except for Briton David Hockney, the current show is devoted entirely to Americans, some heavily influenced by Paris, others determinedly independent. There's Edward Hopper's \"Chop Suey,\" two flappers from the 1920s at a table in a Chinese restaurant; major work by Georgia O'Keeffe, marking her shift from the Atlantic Coast to the colors and forms of New Mexico; and one by Jackson Pollock, the man some called \"Jack the Dripper\" because of his special technique. Pollack has said the most important paintings of the last 100 years had been done in France, and there couldn't be such a thing as isolated American painting. One of the earliest paintings in the show is William Glackens' \"Cafe Lafayette,\" which looks much like the work of Pierre Renoir. One of the most recent is by Hockney, who has lived in the United States for decades and is closely identified with southern California. ------ \"Twentieth Century American Art - The Ebsworth Collection\" will be at the National Gallery through June 11. Admission is free. It will be on view at the Seattle Art Museum, Aug. 10 through Nov. 12. from http://www.virtualtexan.com/news/doc/1047/1:ENTNEWS64/1:ENTNEWS640310100.html"}, {"response": 48, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:07)", "body": "Little-known delight A trip to the capital's prestigious National Gallery of Art is very much in order for a quite wonderful exhibition: The little known but delightful collection of 20th Century American art belonging to Mr. and Mrs. Barney Ebsworth of St. Louis. Up through June 11, it includes such cherished pieces as Edward Hopper's \"Chop Suey\" and Georgia O'Keeffe's \"Sunrise,\" as well as Charles Sheeler's marvelous \"Landscape\" painting of Ford's River Rouge plant in Michigan, Wayne Thiebaud's tasty pastry painting \"Bakery Counter\" and O. Lous Guglielmi's surrealist deconstruction of the Brooklyn Bridge, \"Mental Geography.\" The Gallery is at 4th St. and Constitution Ave., N.W.; phone is 202-737-4215. http://cgi.chicago.tribune.com/travel/bits-bytes/story/0%2C1720%2C0003260099%2C00.html"}, {"response": 49, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:07)", "body": "http://ipomaven.123jump.com/rep/t/trav.php3"}, {"response": 50, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:11)", "body": "Outstanding among the many gifts to the collections were . . .a partial gift of a Georgia O\ufffdKeeffe painting, Black, White, and Blue from Barney Ebsworth. http://newsdesk.si.edu/annual-reports/smithsonian-year-1999-in-html/08aor.doc/odyframe.htm Smithsonian"}, {"response": 51, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (16:28)", "body": "They simply must have a Thomas Paquette, and one day they all shall. Of that I have little doubt. It is irrevelant that I know him through cyber-mail and his website - he is worthy on many levels and is well represented in collections thoughout the world. Barney is no collector if he has't at least one. I'd select several of his many styles of painting as it has evolved. *Sigh* If only I didn't have to eat..."}, {"response": 52, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (19:41)", "body": "What is the Thomas Paquette website, do you have a url, Marica?"}, {"response": 53, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (19:45)", "body": "I'm not sure how old Barney was when this picture was taken, it looks like around when he was twenty. He graduated from Mizzou, I think, in '59 and I graduated from U of I in '69. I have a few family pictures that I got from my sister when mom passed away last year. This is one of them."}, {"response": 54, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (21:12)", "body": "thanks for linking this up with collecting, terry!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (21:14)", "body": "Sure, it qualifies!"}, {"response": 56, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (23:01)", "body": "Sheesh, I thought this was in Art Conference. Sorry for my out-of-place post"}, {"response": 57, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Aug 17, 2001 (23:10)", "body": "It is the art conference, it's linked to collecting."}, {"response": 58, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 18, 2001 (13:54)", "body": "This topic is linked to art, travel, business and collecting which are all relevant to the topic. Some pictures of Barney's (and my) family from the early days in St. Louis. Here's our whole family (well mostly). Top row. Left to Right. Grandpa Ed Frauenthal. Uncle Alec Ebsworth (Barney's Dad) Middle row: Uncle Harold King and wife Ann (my mom's sister), Aunt Lou, Grandma Frauenthal, Aunt Bern, Aunt Bernice (Barney's mom). Front Row: Alice Ann (my sister), me?, Cousin Carol King, my mom Virginia Walhus holding Corky King, and Barney's twin sister Muriel. Maybe Barney took this picture? I'm thinking that this may have been at the granparents house on Wydown or over at Uncle Alec and Aunt Bern's. I'm not sure."}, {"response": 59, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 18, 2001 (14:02)", "body": "The above picture shows the Ebsworths, Barney in the front and Muriel in back in white with the reddish shirt (just behind Barney). The white haired gentleman in the back with glasses holding a glass is Uncle Alec, Barney's dad and that's Aunt Bern, Barney's mom on the right. Looks like Aunt Lou peeking out. I'm not sure who the two little girls are in the picture, maybe Muriel's children."}, {"response": 60, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 18, 2001 (14:08)", "body": "Our family loved to play scrabble. In the back, that's grandma Frauenthal, Gonnie, me and my Grandpa (Barney's Uncle Ed), you can barely make them out but that's my sister Alice and my mom (Barney's Aunt Ginny) in the front. I wonder who's birthday it was? I see Happy Birthday letters laid out on the table. We had great times at these scrabble games, it was moms, grandma and grandpa's favorite game."}, {"response": 61, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 18, 2001 (14:11)", "body": "Here's one more for now, I've got more! This is Alice Ann (my sister), Gonnie, and Cousin Carol King. Nice shot of them."}, {"response": 62, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug 18, 2001 (17:22)", "body": "Now that I take a second look, it looks more like we might be playing bingo or monopoly."}, {"response": 63, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Aug 18, 2001 (22:57)", "body": "It is really neat to see your pictures. I remember you and your wagon. Now we get to see Terry as a growing intellectual. I think I would have gotten on with you very well. No one will play Scrabble nor Trivial Pursuit with me!!! *Sigh* Thanks for sharing your illustrious family!"}, {"response": 64, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 19, 2001 (18:32)", "body": "Charles Demuth (1883-1935) Apples c. 1925, watercolor on paper 11 3/4 by 18 in. Sheldon Memorial Art Gallery and Sculpture Garden, University of Nebraska-Lincoln, F. M. Hall Collection 1944.H-244 \"Demuth above all was a master watercolorist for whom line, edge, and the nuance of tone meant most. The influence of Rodin is clear in the scribbled line and loose washes of this early work. Like his close friend [John] Marin, Demuth instinctively felt at home with watercolor and could absorb a wide variety of influences (including Marin's) while finding his own way.\"2 Demuth's oeuvre has been separated into three categories: one branch involving the human figure in the cabaret and vaudeville theater, and because the artist was an intellectual and an avid reader, \"intensely real\" illustrations of the characters of novels and stories. A second branch of his art emerged in Bermuda (1916-17) where he made a series of landscapes, representing a purely intellectual approach to the subject using the Cubist device of lines and planes. This method of painting was continued later in his career in architectural subjects. A third major category of the artist's work, the flower and still-life paintings (such as Apples, in this exhibition), seems to combine the two phases. Cubist techniques were utilized in the still-lifes in which \"the progression of color intervals follow the firmly penciled linear contour of form.\"3 http://sheldon.unl.edu/HTML/ARTIST/Demuth_C/TO.html"}, {"response": 65, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Aug 22, 2001 (21:59)", "body": "Very interesting, Terry! You indeed have an illustrious family, and I love seeing those old-time photos of a bygone time."}, {"response": 66, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Aug 22, 2001 (22:59)", "body": "Terry, did you notice how Autumn called them Old Time Photographs? *sigh* so much for respect for elders from the kids of Spring! *;)"}, {"response": 67, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug 22, 2001 (23:35)", "body": "Whoa, whoa. Elders? I'm still just a kid."}, {"response": 68, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Aug 23, 2001 (00:52)", "body": "Me too!!!"}, {"response": 69, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Aug 26, 2001 (20:53)", "body": "Aw, they just remind me of the photos we have in our photo albums from when we were kids! Dorky clothes and glasses are what always stand out."}, {"response": 70, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  8, 2001 (00:24)", "body": "Had a brief talk with Barney on the phone, he had open heart surgery about two weeks ago but he's doing well. He's been exercising. He has a new home under construction in Washington. I invited him down for a visit to our place next week and he was going to check with Pam about coming down. I'm hoping he can make it before he heads off to Hawaii for the Winter."}, {"response": 71, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  8, 2001 (00:30)", "body": "WWF Board to Congress: Keep Defense Bill Focused on Defense U.S. Newswire 25 Sep 15:45 WWF Board to Congress: No Time for Partisanship; Keep the Defense Bill Focused on Defense To: National Desk Contact: Michael Ross of the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), 202-778-9565 Email: michael.ross@wwfus.org Web site: www.worldwildlife.org WASHINGTON, Sept. 25 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The Board of Directors of the World Wildlife Fund, at its annual meeting in Washington D.C., today, unanimously approved the following statement: \"Recognizing the gravity of the national security situation affecting the United States and all Americans, we applaud the effort of President Bush and the Congress to mobilize our national response to the terrible events of September 11. \"In this time of national need, we should put aside unrelated and divisive issues and focus on strengthening our national security and protecting the safety of all Americans. Now is the time for unity, not the pursuit of narrow ends. \"We therefore express dismay at the efforts of some to rush to Senate approval a complex package of energy legislation that has not yet been considered by the appropriate committees of the Senate. This legislation (H.R. 4), approved in the House earlier in the summer, has been proposed as an amendment to the Defense Authorization bill currently under discussion in the Senate. \"The terrorist attacks our nation has suffered should not be used to prematurely cut off debate on the many difficult energy policy issues raised by H.R. 4. Increasing subsidies to U.S. energy companies will not increase our safety nor will relaxing environmental rules or drilling the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. However, these and other provisions of H.R. 4, would, if enacted, result in unnecessary environmental damage to our nation. \"As a nation, we hold only 3 percent of the world's reserves of oil, yet we consume almost 25 percent of the world's daily production. As long as this is the case, we will remain dependent on world oil markets, and we will pay the world price for oil, whether it is produced domestically or abroad. The safest and fastest way to increase our energy security is to improve the energy efficiency of our cars, trucks, homes, factories, and offices, and to increase the role of renewable non-petroleum sources of energy in our economy. \"We urge the Senate to consider carefully the long-term implications of these energy policy issues as part of an orderly process of the consideration of energy matters, rather than in midst of the present crisis.\" --- The following is a list of the World Wildlife Fund Board of Directors: The Honorable Bruce E. Babbitt, Mr. Edward P. Bass, Mr. Richard C. Blum, Ms. Julia Carabias, Mr. David Cole, Dr. Jared M. Diamond, Mrs. Barney A. Ebsworth (Pamela) , Mr. Marshall Field, Ing. Jose Maria Figueres, Mrs. John H. Foster (Lynn), Ms. Kathryn Fuller (President), Mr. William T. Lake, Mr. Melvin B. Lane, Mr. Gary Larson, Ms. Shelly Lazarus, Mr. Hunter Lewis, Mrs. John F. Mars (Adrienne) (Secretary), Ms. Mora McLean, Ms. Leslie A. Miller, Mr. Paul F. Miller, Jr. (Treasurer), The Honorable Wendell Mottley, Dr. John C. Ogden, The Honorable Hazel O'Leary, Dr. Gordon Orians, Ms. Anne Pattee, The Honorable William K. Reilly (Chairman), Dr. Alison F. Richard, Mr. Gerald E. Rupp, Mr. Alan Seelenfreund, Mr. Roque Sevilla, Mrs. Constantine Sidamon-Eristoff (Anne), Ms. Linda Stone, Mr. George H. Taber, Dr. John Terborgh, Mr. Thomas Tusher, Mr. Rodney B. Wagner, Mr. Robert H. Waterman, Jr., Mr. Stephen Wolf, Mr. Jaime Augusto Zobel de Ayala II, The Honorable Russell E. Train (Chairman Emeritus), Mr. Joseph Cullman 3rd, (Honorary Director) KEYWORDS: ENERGY POLICY, DEFENSE POLICY, POLICY, POLITICAL -0- /U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/ 09/25 15:45 Copyright 2001, U.S. Newswire"}, {"response": 72, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Nov  8, 2001 (00:48)", "body": "***Hawaii for the winter*** Do tell?! Maui, I'll bet. Too bad he does not like active volcanoes and cool climates. I wish him a speedy recovery and a long and healthy life!"}, {"response": 73, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  8, 2001 (06:40)", "body": "Honolulu, actually. at the very Southernmost tip. about 225 miles from Hilo. Kaalawai Beach is nearby. Waikiki just to the North and a bit West. I believe this may be the Diamond Head area, but I've never been to Hawaii. There's a Diamond Head road that runs along the coast nearby."}, {"response": 74, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Nov  8, 2001 (21:10)", "body": "check out those pics!!!"}, {"response": 75, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Dec 13, 2001 (17:06)", "body": "the top aerial photo is Diamondhead on Oahu at the east end of Honolulu and Waikiki Beach. Inside those little building is Berkheimer Tunnel from whence issues all of our state-wide civil defense messages. Driving though the crater is not very exciting becuase it is so shallow and you cannot see outside for some sense of where you are. In the photo, to the left of Diamondhead is a grassy park with a bandshell in it. That's where the great rock concerts are held. The little buildings near it are Kapiolani Park Zoo. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 5, "subject": "KNEW PLACES TO GO", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 25, 1996 (06:44)", "body": "Where do you live in Israel? What city? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 50, "subject": "Afghanistan", "response_count": 43, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep 16, 2001 (23:13)", "body": "For a quick backgrounder on Afghanistan, check out the CIA world factbook entry: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/af.html Some possibly relevant facts: Landlocked. Bordered by China (76 km), Iran (936 km), Pakistan (2,430 km), Tajikistan (1,206 km), Turkmenistan (744 km), Uzbekistan (137 km). Per capita annual GDP: $800 Adult literacy rate: 31.5% Government: no functioning central government, administered by factions."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 17, 2001 (07:23)", "body": "Take a journey through Afghanistan. http://www.canajun.com/rmcguire/travel/asia/afghanistan/"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep 23, 2001 (21:13)", "body": "#2000 of 2008: David Kline (dkline) Sun Sep 23 '01 (16:33) 51 lines First, the question of information. In 1987-88 the CIA essentially liquidated any direct relationship with any Afghans inside the country. So there has been a severe lack of information in Washington about who's who & what's what in that part of the world for over a decade. I mean, we sent a million dollar missile to destroy a $5 dollar tent in Afghanistan in 1998, in response to Bin Laden's last major attack. We also bombed a supposed chemical warfare facility in Khartoum, Sudan that turned out to be nothing of the sort. Does that sound like good information re: Bin Laden and Afghanistan to you? So more often than you might imagine, these people absolutely do NOT know what they're doing. And what's more, they admit it! How many times in the past week have you heard US officials, including intelligence officials, admit that we lack the crucial information/intelligence we need? But now comes the 2nd question -- the qestion of *policy* as distinct from information. The government can have legions of experts telling them, for example, that the Viet Cong have strong popular support in South Vietnam and still our government will plunge on blindly to disaster, following policies that blithely ignore the facts presented by their own experts. I use the Vietnam analogy for a reason. Because it was in that era that the popular automatic belief that \"Gee, our government *must* know what it's doing\" was blown apart forever. The fact is, sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. If the reports mentioned in previous posts about the US pursuing talks and/or a relationship with the Northern Alliance are true, then our leaders are showing some smarts. And if we pursue those alliances with anti-Taliban Afghans and others with *full respect for the sovereignty* of other nations, then our leaders will be showing even more smarts. And if, after snuffing Bin Laden, we then have the courage to say to the Muslim world, \"Look, we've made mistakes in the past, and have not always paid heed to the legitimate aspirations of Muslim peoples. But we sincerely want to work with Muslims of good faith everywhere to solve our mutual problems make the world a better place for all,\" then I'd say My God our leaders are the smartest damn fuckers in the world. I have more than a little doubt that Washington has the courage to do this last thing -- admit we've made mistakes re: the Muslim world. Powell does, I believe, but Bush? Still, you never know. Maybe, like Nixon & China, he'll surprise us all."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 24, 2001 (00:38)", "body": "http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=1454750417 Among the points Cohen makes: * The Taliban are not liked in Afghanistan and basically came from Pakistan, with a fair number of Arabs as well. He specifically mentioned the destruction of the Bamiyan statues and other anti- tribal activities as having a significant impact in Afghanistan itself. * It is critically important for the US effort not to be seen as fighting the Afghan people, but instead helping them fight the Taliban. * Bush has to relax the prohibition against releasing evidence againsst Al Qaeda, not to satisfy the Taliban but to keep the coalition together, especially the Arab and Islamic states. * The National Alliance is dominated by non-Pashtun forces and so is not likely to lead a national government, although it would be a part of the coalition. * The Israeli/Palestianian conflict is *not* the reason for the attacks on the US (Cohen is in the camp of those who think that the bin Laden phenomenon is about hating the US lifestyle; I find this less convincing than other theories, or rather don't think it makes sense standing alone without reference to US involvement in Saudi Arabia and Israel) * The core numbers of terrorists and totalitarian types we are dealing with are quite small, and we need to focus on them and not spread our response in such a way as to create a new generation of terrorists * One of the keys to understanding the advent of Osama and the Taliban is that the US simply abandoned Afghanistan after 1989, among other effects this meant that the non-Afghan fighters went back to their home nations, didn't get any of the hero's welcome they expected, and became easy recruits for Osama * A key point: the strategy of the hardcore totalitarians among the Islamic fundamentalists is to create an uprising among the 150 million Muslims in Pakistan, linked to the 120 million in India and 140 million in Bangladesh; this seems unlikely given that they get active support from only a very small minority, but it is a concern * Another key point: terrorism cannot become the national obsession of the US. We have other concerns and interests to attend to as well. The Sunday Times (London) reports that an SAS (special forces) unit that was near Kabul looking for information about bin Laden's whereabouts got in a skirmish with the Taliban on Friday night: http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/09/23/stiusausa02036.html"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 24, 2001 (10:02)", "body": "Opium. The San Francisco Chronicle covered this in great depth on Friday. For example: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2001/09/21/national1429EDT0686.DTL \"U.S. believes charities, drugs, weapons among sources of bin Laden's finances\""}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 24, 2001 (10:06)", "body": "\"Afghan opium prices 'crash'\" \"UN officials in Pakistan say the price of Afghan opium has collapsed following the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.\" \"Before 11 September, one kilo of opium was selling for $700. The price is now between $200-300.\" \"The Taleban regime in Afghanistan had outlawed poppy production, but it's now feared that cultivation will start once again.\" \"There are two possible reasons for the collapse in opium prices - some Afghans holding stocks of opium are now trying to off-load them.\" \"They fear that their opium could be destroyed in American air strikes.\" ... \"There could be another factor - in July 2000, the Taleban announced a complete ban on poppy production and then went on to enforce it.\" \"The UN believes the ban was so effective that production fell by 3,000 tonnes.\" \"Unconfirmed reports from inside Afghanistan now say that if America attacks, the Taleban may reverse that ban.\" \"Many farmers resented the loss of income associated with the ban, and the Taleban may want to win back popular support by allowing people to grown poppies once again.\" ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1560000/1560476.stm"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 24, 2001 (12:29)", "body": "David Kline (dkline) Mon Sep 24 '01 (09:26) 23 lines Best news I've seen since Sept. 11 is today's front page New York Times headline: \"U.S. Seeks Afghan Coalition Against Taliban.\" It appears that Washington does indeed recognize that the only way to get Bin Laden is through the anti-Taliban resistance on the ground. As for closing the borders, forget it. It won't happen because it *can't* happen -- there are ten thousand crossing points and only 100 are manned by Pakistani border police. Starving frightened people will flee. And the Paks (and, I guess, us) will simply have to deal with it. As for Rabanni, he's the favorite of at least one Afghan -- a former member of the fundamentalist Hezbi Islami group -- who began emailing me yesterday. I didn't know he was still alive (we had travelled into the war zone together in 83-84), but even though from the more religious side of the anti-Soviet resistance, he says Afghans would welcome US help to overthrow the Taliban so long as we respect Afghan sovereignty and work *with* the Northern Alliance and other anti-Taliban forces. He also says an immediate dispatch of even 5,000 metric tons of wheat to the Afghans would earn us \"much love,\" as he puts it, from the people."}, {"response": 8, "author": "ekelley", "date": "Mon, Sep 24, 2001 (14:04)", "body": "Hey Terry, what conference is this in? Is it the over-arching one that was discussed? I couldn't find it on the main list. Thanks."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 24, 2001 (14:35)", "body": "It's in the news conference and this particular topic is also linked to travel."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 24, 2001 (14:35)", "body": "From: http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/aerodrome/1193/id35.htm \"US wants Afghan king back in Kabul LONDON: The Americans and a key NATO ally, possibly Britain, are pressing much of Europe to support plans for a \"post-Taliban Afghanistan\" governed by its 86-year-old exiled king Zahir Shah and a UN-led interim administration. The revelations, which figure in The Guardian newspaper, quote secret diplomatic documents to say the US \"is bent on force to evict the Taliban from power\" and will not stop at finding Osama bin Laden and destroying his training camps. The documents quote the US administration as canvassing the views of the allies after \"the liberation\" of Afghanistan.\" ,."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 24, 2001 (14:38)", "body": "Good article in the NYT about the U.S. effort to piece together an anti- Taliban Afghan coalition and the difficulties of doing so: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/24/international/24MILI.html The Guardian UK has somebody on the ground with an Afghan rebel faction: http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,557028,00.html"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Oct 14, 2001 (22:33)", "body": "A resident from a nearby village walks next to unexploded ordnance in the village of Koram, west of Jalalabad, Afghanistan. Taliban officials brought a group of journalists to the village Sunday to show them the damage caused by what they claim was a U.S. air attack. source: cnn.com (CNN) -- The U.S.-led military campaign in Afghanistan entered its second week Sunday night with airstrikes targeting artillery and heavy armor that had been moved to the mountains outside of Kabul, sources said. Late in the evening, explosions also rocked the city of Kandahar. Sources inside the city told CNN they sounded like GBU-28s, or \"bunker busters,\" laser-guided weapons developed for penetrating command centers situated deep underground. Sunday's attacks came a day after some of the fiercest strikes since the campaign began a week ago. Pentagon sources told CNN that U.S. planes bombed Kandahar Saturday for several hours, hitting several targets, including a Taliban military headquarters"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Oct 14, 2001 (22:35)", "body": "A Pentagon spokesman told CNN that Koram \"was not on our target list\" and military officials do not yet know why the village was hit. He said it could have been hit by U.S. Air Force or Navy strikes, by British planes or by any number of players who have interests in the conflict. The Pentagon also suggested Koram could have been hit by a Taliban surface-to-air missile that went astray source cnn.com"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Oct 14, 2001 (23:04)", "body": "WHY WE FEAR AFGHANISTAN AND WHY WE SHOULDN'T by Michael Radu October 12, 2001 Michael Radu, Ph.D., is a Senior Fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, specializing in the study of terrorism and political violence. WHY WE FEAR AFGHANISTAN AND WHY WE SHOULDN'T by Michael Radu Much of the current analysis of the U.S.-British military actions against the Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan seem to accept unquestioningly conventional wisdom on the prospects for military success in that country. But the major premises of this conventional wisdom are simply myths that have developed over the years, either from ignorance or malevolence. The facts, it will be seen, simply do not support them. MYTH #1: THE U.S. IS BOUND TO BE DEFEATED IN AFGHANISTAN, JUST AS THE BRITISH AND THE SOVIETS WERE. The myth that the U.S. is destined to follow in the footsteps of the two prior great powers who suffered disastrous defeats there, Great Britain (in the First Afghan War, 1838-42) and the Soviet Union (1979-89), has gained wide currency. In the First Afghan War the British tried and failed to impose an unpopular puppet king, Shah Shuja, in Kabul, thus uniting all the fractious Afghans who, then as now, united only when threatened by the possibility of an effective central government. The British garrison in Kabul was completely wiped out, with enormous losses of life and blows to British prestige. Britain would again fight in Afghanistan in 1878-80 and 1919, but these were mostly limited operations, since London had realized its error and turned to a policy of manipulating (often financially) the various Afghan groups. The success of this policy is demonstrated by the transformation of Afghanistan into an effective buffer state between the competing ambitions of the British and Russian empires. (Perhaps a better term would be \"buffer territory\" since \"Afghanistan\" always was and still is a geographic expression more than a real state, let alone a \"nation.\") The Soviet experience in Afghanistan was equally ill-fated, and caused enough bitterness at home to help contribute to the fall of the Soviet Union. But the reasons for this have as much to do with factors on the Soviet side -- including the large number of soldiers lost to preventable disease, inappropriate military tactics and poor national morale -- as Afghanistan-specific factors. Furthermore, the very ideology of Marxism-Leninism coming on the back of Soviet tanks was rejected by virtually all population groups. Importantly, unlike nineteenth-century Britain or the twentieth-century Soviet Union, the United States has neither interest in nor geopolitical reasons for wanting to control, let alone occupy, Afghanistan. And unless there has been a miserable failure to communicate, all Afghans know this. Moreover, developments in recent decades, exacerbated by the incompetence of the mujahideen regime (now represented by the United Front, also known in the West as the Northern Alliance) of 1992-96 in Kabul, have achieved what all of prior history had not: sharpening ethnic divisions within the country. While all the ethnic groups united against outsiders in the earlier conflicts, now the Tajiks, Uzbeks, Aimaks, Hazaras, Nuristanis, and Turkmen -- ethnic minorities that collectively make up over half the country -- are only loosely and sporadically \"united\" against the Pashtun-dominated Taliban regime. (The Pashtuns are the largest ethnic group but only 40 percent of the population.) It is no coincidence that the Taliban's political and ideological center is not multiethnic Kabul but all-Pashtun Kandahar. MYTH #2: THE TERRAIN IN AFGHANISTAN RENDERS MODERN MILITARY TECHNOLOGY LARGELY IRRELEVANT. The implications of this myth are (a) that an almost Stone Age military would defeat a twenty-first century power, and (b) that the country's terrain is the same and equally important everywhere. While a great deal of Afghanistan is indeed mountainous and exceedingly difficult for infantry operations, key areas -- the Uzbek border, the Shamali Plain north of Kabul and the entire southeast around and including Kandahar -- are perfect operational areas for heliborne forces. These are also in fact the areas of major Taliban force concentrations. As for the truly difficult mountainous regions, the worst of those, the Badakshan Wakhan Corridor, is under Northern Alliance \"control,\" but certainly not under the Taliban's. The strategic Panjhir Valley remains, as ever, under Tajik control, as does the entire area around Heart, although not the city itself -- yet. It is only in the mountainous east, around Jalalabad and the Pakistani border, that Pashtun ethnics may -- if the price is right -- continue to support the Taliban-cum-al-Qaeda. But would the latter have the money to continue its control, or the aura of success following the U.S.-British air attacks? That is doubtful. Actually, the very fact that the Taliban was able to conquer so much of Afghanistan from 1994 on points to othe"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct 15, 2001 (00:00)", "body": "reuters: By Alan Elsner and Sayed Salahuddin WASHINGTON/KABUL (Reuters) - U.S. warplanes bombed Afghanistan for the second week after President Bush rejected a new offer from the Taliban to hand over Osama bin Laden to a neutral country and Secretary of State Colin Powell headed for Pakistan to shore up support. Meanwhile, a nervous United States continued fearful of strange letters as new reports of people exposed to the bioterrorism agent anthrax surfaced. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice warned that the country will remain on high alert for an undetermined time. American warplanes screamed over Afghanistan overnight, pounding Kabul and other cities despite the ruling Taliban offers to the United States and their civil war foes. The capital Kabul and Taliban stronghold of Kandahar were hit as the campaign to flush out Saudi-born fugitive Osama bin Laden -- who the United States accuses of masterminding the Sept. 11 hijack plane attacks on American soil, killing more than 5,000 civilians -- moved into a second week. At least one plane dropped bombs on the Afghan capital on Monday morning, Qatar's al-Jazeera satellite television said. Its correspondent in Kabul said more than one plane circled the capital and that the raids were continuing. He added that smoke could be seen in the distance. Kabul's international telephone exchange was destroyed, cutting Afghanistan's last fixed, albeit unreliable, link to the outside world, the British Broadcasting Corp reported."}, {"response": 16, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 16, 2001 (09:42)", "body": "Warning, this is a long quote. CLASSMATES: Many of you are probably not aware that I was one of the last American citizens to have spent a great deal of time in Afghanistan. I was first there in 1993, providing relief and assistance to refugees along the Tajik border, and in this capacity have traveled all along the border region between the two countries. In 1998 and 1999, I was the Deputy Program Manager for the UN's mine action program in Afghanistan. This program is the largest civilian employer in the country with over 5,000 persons clearing mines and UXO. In this later capacity, I was somewhat ironically engaged in a \"Holy War,\" as decreed by the Taliban, against the evil of landmines; and by a special proclamation of Mullah Omar, all those who might have died in this effort were considered to be \"martyrs\" -- even an \"infidel\" like myself. The mine action program is the most respected relief effort in the country, and because of this I had the opportunity to travel extensively without too much interference or restriction. I still have extensive contacts in the area and among the Afghan community and read a great deal on the subject. I had wanted to write earlier and share some of my perspectives, but quite frankly, I have been a bit too popular in DC this past week and have not had time. Dr. Tony Kern's comments were excellent and I would like to use them as a basis for sharing some observations. First, he is absolutely correct. This war is about will, resolve and character. I want to touch on that later, but first I want to share some comments about our \"enemy.\" Our enemy is not the people of Afghanistan. The country is devastated beyond what most of us can imagine. The vast majority of the people live day-to-day, hand-to-mouth in abject conditions of poverty, misery and deprivation. Less than 30% of the men are literate, the women even less. The country is exhausted, and desperately wants something like peace. They know very little of the world at large, and have no access to information or knowledge that would counter what they are being told by the Taliban. They have nothing left, nothing that is except for their pride. Who is our enemy? Well, our enemy is a group of non-Afghans, often referred to by the Afghans as \"Arabs\" and a fanatical group of religious leaders and their military cohort, the Taliban. The non-Afghan contingent came from all over the Islamic world to fight in the war against the Russians. Many came using a covert network created with assistance by our own government. OBL (as Osama bin Laden was referred to by us in the country at the time) restored this network to bring in more fighters, this time to support the Taliban in their civil war against the former Mujehdeen. Over time, this military support along with financial support has allowed OBL and his \"Arabs\" to co-opt significant government activities and leaders. OBL is the \"inspector general\" of Taliban armed forces; his bodyguards protect senior Talib leaders and he has built a system of deep bunkers for the Taliban, which were designed to withstand cruise missile strikes (uhm, where did he learn to do that?). His forces basically rule the southern city of Kandahar. This high-profile presence of OBL and his \"Arabs\" has, in the last 2 years or so, started to generate a great deal of resentment on the part of the local Afghans. At the same time, the legitimacy of the Taliban regime has started to decrease as it has failed to end the war, as local humanitarian conditions have worsened and as \"cultural\" restrictions have become even harsher. It is my assessment that most Afghans no longer support the Taliban. Indeed the Taliban have recently had a very difficult time getting recruits for their forces and have had to rely more and more on non-Afghans, either from Pushtun tribes in Pakistan or from OBL. OBL and the Taliban, absent any US action, were probably on their way to sharing the same fate that all other outsiders and outside doctrines have experienced in Afghanistan -- defeat and dismemberment. During the Afghan war with the Soviets, much attention was paid to the martial prowess of the Afghans. We were all at West Point at the time, and most of us had high-minded idealistic thoughts about how we would all want to go help the brave \"freedom fighters\" in their struggle against the Soviets. Those concepts were naive to the extreme. The Afghans, while never conquered as a nation, are not invincible in battle. A \"good\" Afghan battle is one that makes a lot of noise and light. Basic military skills are rudimentary and clouded by cultural constraints that no matter what, a warrior should never lose his honor. Indeed, firing from the prone is considered distasteful (but still done). Traditionally, the Afghan order of battle is very feudal in nature, with fighters owing allegiance to a \"commander,\" and this person owing allegiance upwards and so on and so on. Often such allegiance is secured by payment. And while the Taliban forc"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov  4, 2001 (11:18)", "body": "\"The CIA has found itself relying heavily on the Pakistani Interservices Intelligence agency, which helped create the Taliban and remained its chief backer until Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, took steps to sever those ties in September. An American intelligence official said the CIA is \"using whatever means necessary\" to recruit a few commanders on its own to ensure a channel of information unfiltered by Pakistan.\" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36241-2001Nov3.html After nearly four weeks of intense aerial and electronic surveillance and scattered bombing, bin Laden has avoided becoming the highly visible trophy the Bush administration originally identified as the primary target -- \"dead or alive\" -- of its attacks in Afghanistan. U.S. intelligence efforts directed against bin Laden have been hobbled by the lack of informed U.S. operatives on the ground, and disarray and distrust within Pakistan's intelligence service, the agency with the potential to know the most about bin Laden's whereabouts, according to officials familiar with the operations. ... \"They don't have the sources, the information,\" said Ahmed Rashid, an author who has written about the Taliban and traveled extensively through Taliban-controlled Afghanistan in recent years. \"It's going to take many months to build it up. They need anti-Taliban Afghanis on the ground. For that, they have to help build the anti-Taliban movement in the south, and it's going to take time and money and lots of effort. It's not something you can do with U.S. commanders and U.S. bombs.\" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36323-2001Nov3.html"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov  6, 2001 (10:42)", "body": "http://www.nybooks.com/articles/14780 is about how the Soviets entered in 78. David Kline (dkline) Sun Nov 4 '01 (18:22) 15 lines Yes, indeed. Good synopsis. And it's eerily reminiscent of the reasons the US committed ground troops to Vietnam in the 1960s: Both superpowers faced a client regime threatened with overthrow by a popular revolt. Their choice was to either let their puppets fall -- and thereby send a message to other countries in their sphere of influence that rebellion was in fact feasible -- or to intervene directly with their own armed forces. Just as LBJ and his advisors had in Vietnam, the Soviet Politburo decided that the better choice was to replace their \"advisors\" with large numbers of ground troops. After all, they thought, slapping down those \"ragheads\" (or in Vietnam's case, those \"gooks\") ought to be a cakewalk, right? Wrong. And in the news : Neither the current bombing campaign nor the deployment of American ground forces to Afghanistan offers good military options for dealing with the Taliban and Al Qaeda. A better approach would emphasize ground-level diplomacy, with open wallets, among Pashtun leaders in central and southern Afghanistan, the fullest use of Pakistani intelligence and influence, and selective military actions. The moment for dramatic demonstration of American military power has passed. Our resolve must now be expressed through many careful steps, or we will never achieve the victory we seek against Al Qaeda. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/04/opinion/04MEAR.html Hundreds of Arab extremists thought to be fighting alongside Osama bin Laden were given citizenship by the former Afghan government, whose leaders are now allies of America, according to documents provided by the Taliban on Saturday. The United States and its allies could end up dealing with a new set of Afghan leaders with their own ties to al-Qa'ida. The documents show that at least 604 people from countries such as Algeria, Libya, Saudi Arabia and Egypt were granted Afghan citizenship in March 1993 by President Burhanuddin Rabbani. Mr Rabbani, who was ousted by the Taliban in 1996, now heads the Northern Alliance which is fighting the Taliban. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia_china/story.jsp?story=103217 Sudden Resonance for an Iranian Film About Afghanistan http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/05/movies/05KAND.html http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2001/June/Afghan/ http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,588285,00.html which talks about Pakistans involvement in the creation of the Taliban."}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  8, 2001 (10:52)", "body": "WBUR is posting daily summaries of coverage on Al Jazeera http://www.wbur.org/special/specialcoverage/feature_aljaz.asp Background at http://www.poynter.org/web/110601Sree.htm"}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 13, 2001 (11:04)", "body": "From the bbc website: Residents said music - banned by the Taleban - was broadcast on Kabul radio for the first time in five years. \"You can celebrate this great victory,\" a female announcer told residents - another novelty in a city where women have been banned from most work and education since 1996. And men have been queuing at barbers' shops to have their beards shaved off - another gesture of freedom from the strict Taleban interpretation of Islam. Northern Alliance Defence Minister General Mohammad Fahim and Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah have now entered Kabul. Anti-Taleban crowds Earlier, huge crowds gathered in the city, shouting \"death to Pakistan\" and \"death to the Taleban,\" the BBC's John Simpson reported. Correspondents say anti-Taleban anger is directed more towards Osama Bin Laden's foreign volunteers than towards Afghans in the Pashtun-dominated Taleban movement. BBC correspondent William Reeve survived a bomb blast in Kabul Thousands of people were seen crowding around an aid agency and carrying away tents, food and blankets in taxis and on bicycles. And the Taleban are reported to have taken away the contents of Kabul's money markets and the national bank. The UN Human Rights Commissioner, Mary Robinson, said there were reports of looting of humanitarian aid \"and there is a fear that the situation could turn worse\". The Kabul office of Qatar-based al-Jazeera television took a direct hit from a US bomb overnight. The building was destroyed, but the staff had already left building. William Reeve says a US bomb landed earlier on a house about 100 metres from the BBC office where he was broadcasting. The blast smashed all the office windows. On the way to Kabul the alliance forces passed through miles of devastation - ruined towns, razed orchards and burnt vineyards, the BBC's Kate Clark reports. But as soon as they got closer to Kabul, she says, villagers stood cheering on the alliance, some throwing flowers on the tanks as they drove past."}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 15, 2001 (07:13)", "body": "Check Out The Jagged Machete and Stolen Nightgoggles *8-/ JFEATURESJJ JJ Kabul greets its new dawn By ALAN PHILPS KABUL Thursday 15 November 2001 Nothing became the Taliban so much as the manner of their departure. Their rule had been vicious and incompetent, and their defence against the Northern Alliance bone-headed and feeble. But when it came to saving their skins, they were up to the task. On Monday afternoon they quietly collected their things, piled into their utilities and sped south. Those without transport held up cars on the street and turfed out their drivers. They left behind tonnes of equipment, but they got away. Their neighbors were astonished to find that they had fled like thieves. When dawn broke in Kabul and the rugged mountain soldiers from the alliance moved in, there were no top Taliban to round up. The famous roundabout where the last Soviet-backed president, Najibullah, was strung up by the Taliban in 1996 was empty. A black turban - symbol of the Taliban - was hung from a tree in the absence of real bodies. In the Shahr-e Now park, there were six bodies lying in the dust, one under a basketball hoop, the rest in a ditch. A crowd of men on bicycles gathered to gawp and spit on the bodies. They looked like boys, some as young as 12. A Red Cross official, his immaculately pressed trousers stained with blood, took on the job of clearing up the remains. No one else would lift a finger to give dignity to fighters of the hated regime. The official said: \"These ones are fresh and in one piece. They are no problem. We had two which had been torn limb from limb. That is not such a pleasant task.\" In all, he expected the death toll to be about 20. No one could say who the dead were, though the consensus was that they were Pakistanis, cannon-fodder of the Taliban - so insignificant that they were left behind, caught by the alliance and shot. In their moment of triumph, as the Taliban were on the run, the American air force could not resist a parting shot. Its last bomb was reserved for the Kabul office of al-Jazeera, the Arabic satellite channel which served as the mouthpiece of Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. The staff left at 7.30 on Monday night, fearing the vengeance of the Afghans, who see the Taliban as a tool of Pakistani intelligence and Saudi Arabian money. Six hours later, two bombs slammed into the al-Jazeera office, one lying unexploded in the garden. The other bomb collapsed the building, leaving a crushed jumble of studio equipment on the ground floor. The walls of the building were still warm from the fire when journalists arrived, but looters had taken the generator. \"They kept their last bomb for these Arabs,\" said the owner's son-in-law, Mohammed Aziz, who was trying to keep the looters away from the last remaining item worth stealing, a camera tripod. \"We're astonished. How could they hit one building in the centre of town? This accuracy is something beyond our comprehension. When the Russians attacked us they hit everything all around.\" It was an arrogant and dangerous shot by the Americans. The office is in a residential district, with a mosque on the corner of the street. The garden was full of schoolbooks used by the correspondent's family. It could have been a disaster, but maybe al-Jazeera's giant satellite dish guided the bombs to their target. The blue awning used by the staff to protect their work from the view of the neighbors was blown into rags that stuck to the branches of trees all around. The scene looked like the flag-draped graves common in Afghanistan, a fitting memorial to a disastrous era in Afghan life. A new media era was dawning. For the first time in five years, music was played on Radio Kabul, and a female announcer's voice was heard. The Taliban had banned music, working women, beardless men and much else. On the street there was a grim reminder of the troubles ahead. A group of cut-throats, as fearsome as any I have seen in my life, was casing the street for empty houses to loot. The robber chief was armed with a jagged- edged sword and looted Russian night-vision scope - a neat encapsulation of the mediaeval and modern aspects of war Afghan-style. His band had knives, guns and bayonets. My driver, who is afraid of nothing apart from dogs and landmines, strode up to enforce order on behalf of the Northern Alliance. The robber chief claimed to be working on behalf of the \"commander of Jangelbagh\", a small town in the heart of Northern Alliance territory. He chose the wrong town. \"What a coincidence,\" said the driver. \"That is my home town. And what would your commander's name be?\" The robber chief looked confused. \"I don't have to tell you,\" he said. But the driver had the advantage. \"Stay off the streets. There is a new order now.\" The band slunk off as a patrol of the newly arrived soldiers came into view. All over the city, alliance soldiers and police set up checkpoints on the main roads. But most of the serious looting had already happened. Th"}, {"response": 22, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 15, 2001 (14:40)", "body": "Eager to Schmooze With The Latest Winners *8-/ J Emir praises the 'good fight' to liberate Afghanistan By Alice Thomson in Bahrain (Filed: 13/11/2001) THE Emir of Bahrain yesterday became the first Arab leader to call the fighting in Afghanistan a great war of liberation. \"I am so happy America and Britain are going into Afghanistan,\" he said. \"Liberating it from this evil Taliban will only be good for women, men and children. It is a very good war of liberation. \"The Americans aren't like the Soviet Union, they are not trying to overthrow Muslims for communists. They are helping the Afghans to progress and saving poor Muslims from evil.\" In an interview at Saffriya Palace, Sheikh Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa said Bahrain would not only lend troops, but would allow its airbases to be used for bombing raids. The US Fifth Fleet is based at the island. \"If we were asked to send troops we would consider it, but they might not be appropriate because they are not used to mountainous terrain,\" said the former Sandhurst officer. \"We would think it a great honour. We have helped the British for 180 years and the Americans for 50.\" Sheikh Hamad insisted that his neighbours in the Gulf states who didn't support the war in Afghanistan were wrong. \"Anyone against such a thing must have lost their mind, it's a gift of God that the developed world can go into Afghanistan and help to correct it.\" The Emir who is a Sunni Muslim, said that Muslims should help to hunt down Osama bin Laden. \"How can Muslims support a man who is hiding in a cave, who wants to return to the Dark Ages?\" The new progressive head of this tiny state disagreed with other Arab leaders who have criticised the bombing. \"It breaks all our hearts to see an Afghan refugee crouching in a dust storm but this bombing is necessary to free these people. \"We have supported this campaign from day one without any hesitation. It is not against Islam or Arabs but terrorism. And terrorism should frighten us, not the war against terrorism.\" He said that Bahrain would not send blankets to the refugees. \"They are a tough lot, like us. They can survive the winter, what they need are medicines.\" The Arab world must understand, he said, that the Taliban are not Islamic. \"The way they treat women is disgusting. What can we learn from them? Have they given us better hospitals, schools or gardens? No. Women should choose what they wear: a burqa, a pair of trousers, a swimming suit.\" The Emir said that if bin Laden or the leaders of the Taliban were tried in an Islamic country they would be treated extremely harshly. \"Killing women and children is not in the Koran,\" he said. Arab states must ensure that the war against terrorism did not become a war of religions. \"In Saudi Arabia and Yemen even a strange goat is suspicious, there is more resentment against the West. Here we are an island, we are used to different peoples, we must lead the way.\" The Emir said the issue of a Palestinian state should not be mixed up with the war on terrorism. \"It is nothing to do with bin Laden and his gang. I am confident that the two states, Israel and Palestine, will soon co-exist. \"It would be a great help to the allies if these two states were created quickly, to bring back the support of the Arab world that the West has lost. If we do the right thing in Afghanistan, we must also do it in Palestine.\""}, {"response": 23, "author": "ekelley", "date": "Fri, Nov 16, 2001 (15:23)", "body": "thank goodness someone is speaking some sense in that region!"}, {"response": 24, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 20, 2001 (10:41)", "body": "Canadians sorting it out: http://nationalpost.com/news/updates/story.html?f=/news/updates/stories/20011114/national-806026.html \"But this week Hosni Mubarak, Egypt's President, ruled out sending any of his troops, saying he feared they might return home as \"terrorists.\" http://nationalpost.com/news/story.html?f=/stories/20011117/791442.html Another Canadian story... http://nationalpost.com/news/story.html?f=/stories/20011117/791063.html \"LCol Farquhar suggested that the Regiment bear the name of the Duke's youngest daughter, Her Royal Highness Princess Patricia of Connaught. The request was made tothe Princess, who graciously consented to the Regiment bearing her name. The full title of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry was too long for everyday use, and the new unit became known as \"PPCLI\", with \"PPs\" or \"Pip Pips\", the commonest variants. The Regiment was best known to the general publics as \"PrincessPats\" or merely the \"Pats\", but this partial abbreviation is discouraged within the Regiment, which now prefers to be known as the \"Patricias\". Brits under pressure to pullout: http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,596981,00.html Field strategy that led to Taliban retreat: http://www.observer.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,596830,00.html http://www.frontierpost.com.pk/main.asp?id=2&date1=11/18/2001 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/CIA18.html Keith Richburg and William Brannigan on the devastating effect US bombing had on the Taliban front lines and mobility: \"The basic equation of the war, said a U.S. Air Force officer, was '21st- century air and space power combined with 16th-century land forces.'\" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/Taliban111801.html And a Guardian report on the settling of scores going on in the wake of the Taliban collapse: Ordinary Afghans who are Taliban are not killed because of the nature of war in this country. Generally, there is a short sharp battle after which the loser, seeing the way the wind is blowing, makes a deal with the winner. Not so foreigners: the Arabs and Pakistanis fighting alongside the Taliban in the lines north of Kabul were seen as invaders here to dominate the country. They therefore get what they deserve. http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,596920,00.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1662000/1662683.stm http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/11/18/gen.war.against.terror/index.html The Taliban commander of Afghanistan's northern zone and the governor of Konduz agreed to surrender control of the northern Afghan city to the United Nations after meeting with a group of Afghan tribal elders, the elders said Sunday. bodies of four Northern Alliance fighters believed to have been killed four months ago while fighting with the Taliban. The bodies had their hands tied behind them and were each shot in the head and torso. The ears of all the bodies also were cut off. CNN.com homepage is reporting that the Taliban is doing our work for us: Hard-line Taliban fighters in Konduz kill Taliban supporters willing to surrender Taliban fighters in Konduz reportedly killing themselves rather than give up Sunday November 18 2:03 PM ET Afghans Pack Makeshift Theaters By STEVEN GUTKIN, Associated Press Writer KABUL, Afghanistan (news - web sites) (AP) - Standing outside a small shop where a hundred people squeezed inside to watch a movie, one by one the Afghan men shouted out the names of their favorite characters. ``Arnold!'' ``Rambo!'' ``Van Damme!'' ``Jackie Chan!'' they cried. The collapse of Taliban rule in Kabul means it's movie time again. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011118/ts/afghanistan_crazy_for_movies_1.html"}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 22, 2001 (11:39)", "body": "From a Salon piece: The Taliban's deadly \"refugees\" Taliban guerrillas are moving into refugee camps inside Afghanistan -- safe havens where they can regroup, skim food provided by aid agencies, and recruit new troops. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - By Ben Barber Nov. 22, 2001 | Refugee camps along the Afghan-Pakistan border, supported by foreign aid, are havens for fleeing Taliban guerrillas, who use the camps to recruit new fighters, for medical services and as a home base. The movement of Taliban troops into the camps -- assisted, one refugee analyst charges, by Saudi Arabian relief workers -- poses a serious challenge to the American-led war effort in Afghanistan. Thousands of Afghans are already enclosed in camps at Spin Boldak on the Afghan side of the border between Quetta, Pakistan and Kandahar, Afghanistan -- an area that's the last redoubt of the Taliban regime of Mullah Omar. The camps are controlled by the Taliban; refugees are surrounded by armed Taliban guards, who allow armed Afghans into the camps if they are loyal to the Taliban. Food and tents sent by international humanitarian agencies are being distributed by Saudi relief groups, who may be the only nationality operating there -- the U.N. has no control over the camps and is afraid to distribute food because of threats of violence. http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/11/22/refugees/index_np.html has the rest of the article."}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 24, 2001 (21:29)", "body": "David Kline (dkline) Fri Nov 23 '01 (09:19) 36 lines My record of support for the rights of Afghan women and against their abuse and suffering is very long and public -- you can search all of mty articlews going back to the very first article I ever wrote for any publications anywhere: a piece about Iranian women after the Shah entitled \"Beneath the Veil,\" for the Los Angeles Herald Examiner in 1978. I also spoke at somewhere over 100 college campuses about the plight of Afghan women during the early and mid-1980s, trying desperately (and futilely as it turned out) to raise support for Afghan women and debating against leftists like you who refused to utter one word -- literally even a token word -- against the Soviet invasion and butchery of Afghans, especially women (who always suffer the most in war). I debated Chomsky, who had the gall to insist that Soviet massacres in Afghanistan (course he didn't call them that) were helping \"womenh's liberation\" in that country. . . . Chomsky has suddenly discovcered the plight of \"[oor suffering Afghan women\" only since Oct 7, 2001 when the first US bomb fell on that country. But just to clarify. The very first piece of journalism I ever wrote was a freelance piece for the LA Herald Examiner (now defunct) on the liberation of Iranian women after the Shah in 1978. . . . women under Islam was actually my specialty, not war reportage (although I certainly did the latter). I was a constant critic of women's suffering under Islam for more than 20 years, even writing a piece for Advertising Age (of all places) in 85 or 86 on the absurd restrictions placed upon women and their images under the newly-emerging fundamentalists of Pakistan at that time. The indispensable Najam Sethi reviews the return of the pre-Taliban factions to their places in Afghanistan today, and notes the current sack race involving the 6+2 on the road back to Kabul: http://www.thefridaytimes.com/ . . . And Afghan winters can be long ones, too! Anyway, as a corollary to this discussion, folks here may recall that one criticism I've often made of the US (as opposed to European) left is its inability (or fear of) criticizing any people who may be considered among the oppressed. I have cited the Sandinistas, for example, who the left refused to criticize for their inhumane & illegal treatment of the Misquito Indians, even though the Sandinistas themselves later apologized for these crimes under international law. . . . since Afghan women are oppressed, then their representatives may not be criticized no matter how dumb their statements or actions. If so, he would be merely following a long and infantile tradeition of the US left of slavishishness towards the Black Panthers and countless other \"leaders\" of the oppressed.\" This slavishness is not a tradition with which I am in support. http://rawa.false.net/points.html"}, {"response": 27, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 25, 2001 (18:56)", "body": "David Kline (dkline) Sat Nov 24 '01 (20:39) 19 lines . . . I thought I''d been rather nuanced about them in the half-dozen or so extensive postings I've made here regarding their history, policies, and behavior both positive and negative. But it'd be a simple nmatter to do an !extract on my views regarding RAWA, and I think I could benefit from some constructive criticism where I've erred. But I'll need your help in pointing these errors out, since I really do think I've put forward am pretty balanced perspective on RAWA taken as a whole. My last post on RAWA, of course, was very critical because it was responding to their very dangerous attempt to deny to the one group most responsible for Afghanistan's liberation any right to participate in a future government of that country. But other posts of mine have been largely favorable towards RAWA. . . . . . . If putting pressure on fractious Afghan leaders was all they were doing, then I'd support (and have supported) that effort. Instead, what they are doing is calling for the denial of political and voting rights to the one Afghan force most directly responsible for the liberation of the country. Bad move. It will only marginalize RAWA, because no force on earth -- whether US, UN or any other nation -- would ever agree that Afghanistan's principal liberation forces, the ones who actually drove out the Russians and later the Taliban and sacrificed hundreds of thousands of fighters in the effort, should play NO role in a future government of that country. Now I have listened to all kinds of legends and stories and half truths about the past \"crimes\" of the Northern Alliance. I have tried to point out to the extent these atrocities took place, they were largely NOT the policy of the NA itself but of certain creeps like Dostrum. So-called \"warlords\" like Ismael Khan, in fact, educated more girls than RAWA in its wildest pseudo-socialist dreams ever could hope to do. I have also tried to put the existence of atrocities, warlords, & factionalizing in context of the suffering endured by that nation. I said these were not so surprising in a country that had suffered the equivalent (were it America) of 30 million dead, 70 million starving in tents along the border, and 75% of all towns razed to the ground. Hell, we have had NO war in America yet we have far far far more rapists per capita than Afghanistan does, but that doesn't disqualify US males from citizenship. I realize that people think I'm an apologist for a) the Northern Alliance, and b) the Afghans in general. Yet so far at least almost all I've said and predicted about the Afghans has come to pass. People here said the Afghans surely must support the Taliban or else they wouldn't be in power. People here said the Northern Alliance were a bunch of warlords who couldn't get their shit together to fight. People said the Afghans are fanatics and treat their female citizens horribly. And people said the citizens of Kabul were more afraid of the NA than the Taliban. Excuse me? Is anyone paying attention to actual reality? Dancing in the streets. A Kabul film festival. Women choosing (or not, as their desire) to toss off the burqa. Very few reprisal killings so far. Quite a few blustering comments from Rabbani and other officials, but so far everyone is agreeing to meet to try to form a broad-based government, etc. In short, despite the crying of wolf by concerned Americans on almost a daily basis, would any of you have imagined two months ago that the Northern Alliance in particular or the Afghans in general would have actually done what they've done and done it relatively so well, overall? But you know what, forget what I say. Disregard it. I'm hopelessly in love with these people and my opinions surely can't be trusted. Fine. Only I ask that if you disregard my opinions, then to be fair you should also disregard the views of the constant naysayers, wolf-cryers, and others who have so far NEVER GIVEN THE AFGHANS ONE OUNCE OF CREDIT FOR ALL THAT THEY HAVE ACHIEVED in the last month. Not once has anyone here that I can recall said, \"You know what, pretty good job, guys. We thought for sure you'd all butcher each other and then eat the remains, but gee whiz it's almost like you Afghan tribal folk seem pretty close to human sometimes.\" So like I said, disregard all opinions, most especially mine. Instead, just watch what actually happens with a fair and open mind and a sense of historical context. And when you watch events on the ground, remember that similar predictions of atrocities and failure to unite were made against ... ohmygod, exactly the same was said of the French during World War 2! The Frogs are all collaborators. Look how they treat their women (who didn't get the right to vote until 1946). Those resistance factions will never unite. Blah blah blah. I can tell you that when all is said and done, far fewer retaliation killings will take place in a liberated Afghanistan than the 30,000 collaborators execu"}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 25, 2001 (18:57)", "body": "November 1 Prediction: If today's news is really really the truth -- that the US has finally decided to commit serious resources and effort to enhancing the capabilities of the anti-Taliban resistance [instead of merely bombing] -- than I'd say within 2 weeks we'll start to hear some good news for a change from that country. The Taliban will no longer be laughing at us. They will start to sound a little bit desperate. By the end of Ramadan the first signs of internal splits within the Taliban will appear. And by Christmas, it'll look like it's only a matter of time before the Taliban are ousted from power. \ufffdThe NA in its fractiousness was behind that.\ufffd My principal defensiveness is to allow to pass unchallenged such notions as the above. I'm so busy putting Afghan mistakes in context that, excuse me, I've forgotten to remind you all that this entire tragedy -- and all its atrocities and mistakes -- was almost entirely NOT of the NA's making. Ever hear of a country called Pakistan? And of their stooge Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who started shelling Kabul on Pakistan's orders and broke down the fragile but working peace that the Afghans had achieved in 1992? And of an alien foreign terrorist organization called the Taliban co-sponsored by Bin Laden and Pakistan that brought 95% of this tragedy to pass? I suppose a \"better\" people could have resisted all the direct sabotage from Pakistan and elsewhere, could have somehow survived and maintained order & security against Pakistan's overwhelmingly-superior military & economic might. But, whatever, Massoud & Abdul Haq were unsuccessful. Actually, I'm in awe of Massoud's greatness as a leader not because of his victories, but because he kept fighting against all odds and the world's indifference and yet somehow managed to keep the NA alive! So while I'm asking you all in your infinite whiteness to forgive the primitive Afghans, please allow me to remind you that there is plenty of evidence to show that much if not most of this wasn't even their fault. I finally figured out the problem: I need to take a break from all this. It's all so eerily reminiscent of 15-20 years ago when I kept writing all my stupid little articles and dragging my sorry tray of slides from one college campus to the next, pleading the Afghans' cause to no effect. My Pulitzer nomination and a dollar still couldn't get them on the bus. Back in the 1980s, the reason given for people's lack of support was that since the Afghans were Muslims, they obviously *weren't* progressive. Now the reason given is that, since the Afghans couldn't get any help in the 1980s and foreign sabotage and the slaughter of their educated class left them vulnerable to error and failure, they obviously *aren't* progressive. Weren't progressive. Aren't progresive. Catch 22. The irony is that anyone who has been to Afghanistan has such an abiding and passionate love for these people, it's really quite amazing. But for everyone else, well the Afghans simply can't get a break, can they? This is all too familiar for me -- Afghanistan as my own private kind of weird Idaho -- and unfortunately all too emotional as well. I can't keep doing this decade after decade & never somehow be able to do it right. So I really appreciate all the great stuff I've learned here and all the kind words people have said. I'll check back in after a while. Amazing collection of photos of Afghanistan Now: http://photos.blogspot.com/ . . . . It's not a matter of who's better or had an easier time of educating girls, RAWA or so-called Northern Alliance \"warlord\" Ismael Khan. They both did wonderfully, and both risked their lives (Khan spent years in a Taliban prison being tortured to near death). I only criticized RAWA for unjustly censoring the entire Northern Alliance when they should be uniting with and trying to educate every decent Afghan they can find -- including Ismael Khan. Again, thanks to all . . ., but it's obvious I'm a broken record and an ineffective one at that. It may all be new & interesting to you, but I've been banging on the locked doors to people's minds since 1980 trying to scrounge up a little empathy for the Afghans. And in 20 years I've never been able to succeed at it. Fate has decreed that these honorable and quite beautiful people (thank you Boz for those incredible photos) will never get a break from Americans. Which is soooo unfair! The Afghan people have twice shed their blood to save the civilized world -- first to crack open the Soviet empire and free hundreds of millions of victims of east-block communist tyranny; and second, to overthrow the the world's first terrorist gov't, the Taliban, and kick-start us on the long road to victory against Islamic terrorism. But not even these great sacrifices for humanity are enough to earn them a decent \"thank you\" from sophisticated (and safe) critics in the West. All they get for the blood they've shed in all our behalf are our complaints. The people of Afghanistan deserve our respe"}, {"response": 29, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 26, 2001 (15:22)", "body": "Terrifying: \"Former Inhabitants Trickle Back to Area Ravaged by Taliban ...Seizing territory just north of Kabul, they went on a rampage that was meant to drive off forever tens of thousands of villagers they deemed sympathetic to the Northern Alliance. They not only killed civilians, but they also set homes ablaze, machine-gunned livestock, tore out crops, sawed down fruit trees and blasted apart irrigation canals.\""}, {"response": 30, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 26, 2001 (21:44)", "body": "David Kline (dkline) Mon Nov 26 '01 (12:55) 11 lines How ironic that my screenplay, written 11 years ago and telling a love story set against the backdrop of the Afghan war, has as its surface plot the (purported) Soviet looting of Afghan art. I spent a lot of time and effort becoming familiar with Afghan art, but I must confess that in my wildest dreams I never imagined that anyone would ever actually want to *destroy* one of the greatest art treasures of human civilization. Like I said today in another topic, one day the true cost of the Taliban's brutal 5-year reign of terror will become fully known and the horror of it will bring us all to our knees. Indeed. Who'd have thought that anyone would have had to power to heal the jaded-ness in us all and restore our appreciation of simple good and evil. Thanks at least for that, mister Taliban man. Humanity hasn't had such negative inspiration since the days of the Gestapo and SS. (Well, actually, we did have Pol Pot but I think many of us were still so full of 60s-era bravura that we missed the full import of his misdeeds.)"}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 28, 2001 (10:04)", "body": "David Kline (dkline) Tue Nov 27 '01 (21:00) 18 lines . . . In Afghanistan, influence is the center of gravity of power -- both armed and political. Everyone has guns, yes, but the direction they are pointed is determined by those who have the most influence. Influence over *money* (as in reconstruction aid, cross-border trade, & outright bribes) and over *access* (as in politics, appointments, & tribal status). And in the new Afghanistan, the people with the most money, influence and access to offer will be the new coalition government (especially its NA components) and its American benefactors. If they say put your guns away and obey the rules, all but a few of the most rootless and disposessed small-time warlords will quickly fall in line. The few malcontents who remain -- these will probably be people with little in the way of family or tribal status to protect -- will likely end up in jail or dead. So I'm actually optimistic, so long as factions succeed in forging a truly broad-based transition regime. That'll be the harder part, I think. . . . I think it's too soon to tell how serious the security situation will really be in the first few months of the new regime. My guess, though, is that things will quiet down much more quickly than people expect. It's just my gut feeling about the way Afghans work -- their highly-refined practice of \"side-switching,\" for example, enables them to end conflicts extremely rapidly with minimal loss of blood. Then, too, look at how well (relatively speaking) they've already been able to stabilize things in Kabul, Kunduz, Herat and (save for the prison revolt) even the city of Mazaar-i-Sharif proper. So that's a good sign."}, {"response": 32, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 29, 2001 (22:05)", "body": "Below are some excerpts from an extraordinary interview in the New York Times the other day with Northern Alliance Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah. Dr. Abdullah laments the fact that their great leader Massoud is not there to guide the Afghans anymore, and he seems quite cognizant of both the mistakes of the past and the challenges ahead. A couple of excerpts: ________________________ \"Afghanistan is a country without any institutions, without any systems, and what it needs in such a situation is a leader. We do not have one.\" and \"It is very sad because we have a great opportunity now with the world focused on Afghanistan,\" he said. \"We will try our best, but with Massoud alive things would have been totally different. We would have had a man sensitive to every issue, someone who understood how to bypass obstacles, a person whose yes was a yes and whose no was a no.\" and \"There is a generation that wants to see change, to get us out of this vicious cycle that has brought war to the nation for the past two decades. I'm not sure how much this need for change is understood by others. But I am sure that if the same attitudes of the past continue, there will be trouble for all of us.\" from David Kline"}, {"response": 33, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec  1, 2001 (06:12)", "body": "David Kline (dkline) Fri Nov 30 '01 (22:08) 10 lines The wonderful thing about the Afghans and especially the Pashtuns is that anyone can see whatever they want in them. For every negative story, there are many positive ones (much like is true regarding Americans, I suppose). One interesting way to get a better handle on what the people are like, without any reportorial need to put forward a singular and un-nuanced point of view, is to read anthropological works on the Afghans. I'm sorry I forget the title right now, but check out the seminal work written on Afghan culture, history, and economic activity by Louis Dupree."}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec  1, 2001 (19:06)", "body": "dkline) Sat Dec 1 '01 (15:05) 38 lines I've been waiting to see the Stingers myself. As for the Russians, let me say that the Afghans had a lot of respect (and fear) for their special forces units, who operated in larger formations and in different ways than our special ops people do. Also, it's very simplistic to say the Stingers won the war. I travelled with the Afghans and saw them fight for almost 7 years before the first Stinger was introduced, and the Mujahadeen managed to take the strategic offensive long before they had Stingers or any other means of bringing down those dreaded MI-24 gunshops (\"Flying Tanks\", they were called). Right after the Soviet invasion, in fact, everyone thought the \"ragheads\" would crumble. They'd never be able to oppose 100,00 troops of what was then considered the strongest conventional army on earth. But justb the opposite happened. The Afghans resisted, and resisted well. I understand that the US provided arms and in some cases, advice and training. But almost none of that went to the two principal resistance forces doing most of the actual fighting against the Soviets -- Massoud's forces and those of Abdul Haq, commander of the Kabul district. There was a two-to-three year period, in fact, when Massoud couldn't get so much as a radio or a bullet from the US arms supply train (dispensed under the complete control of the Pakistani ISI). The fact of US arms aid ought not imply that the resistance itself was ineffective as a fighting force. Quite the contrary, in fact. By the time Stingers were introduced in 1986 or so, the Soviet invaders had already been pushed onto the strategic defensive, confined to the principal cities and road networks, bloodied quite badly in the field, and demoralized enough to seriously cripple their combat effectiveness. Indeed, had it not been for the effectiveness of Afghan fighting forces, the U.S. would never have even put Stingers into the hands of the Afghans in the first place. What the Stingers did was merely sped up the already-inevitable Soviet defeat, and increase aircraft losses to such an extent that Moscow decided to seek a much more rapid negotiated withdrawal."}, {"response": 35, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  3, 2001 (13:54)", "body": "David Kline: Just like I've been saying -- as journalists who supposedly make a living by being observant, we're supposed to be more careful than to go into areas that are too hot, too soon, with far to little armed protection. I'd have never (I hope) done what these 8 dead reporters did, nor gone to any hot area without 25-50 guys whose sole and overriding mission in life (for the next few days, anyway) was to protect me. Anyway, great discussion. On the question of Stingers, I think I agree with that we may see some deployed in coming days in the final hill/cave fighting. I have seen MI-24s roaring up a valley or wide ravine between two ridgelines 5-10Km apart, and getting picked off by Stingers fired from the ridgelines. It also looked easy, but I'm sure it wasn't. Bear in mind about the Stingers, though, that they're just paperweights unless you happen to have them available and deployable *at the moment* of incoming air attack by aircraft *likely to succumb* to Stinger hits. And without reliable communications to alert them to imminent attack, nor deep experience with the capabilities and vulnerabilities of US aircraft, Taliban fighters would tend to be extremely reluctant to fire their Stingers. At least *Afghan* Taliban would, because the only thing they do better than *acquire* military equipment is *shepherd* it for latter use. No Afghan wants to fire his last bullet, rocket or Stinger and not know from where the next one will come. They're always thinking about *future* advantage or disadvantage, so that may be a factor in their non-use. Another wildcard in the Stinger issue is the question of exactly who has control over them? Afghan Taliban, or only the more dedicated and reliable (from Mullah Omar and OBL's POV) Arab legionaire Taliban? Just in case our great fundi leaders chose Door No. 2 and distributed Stinger assets only to the Arab fighters, then that's another argument for the increased possibility of their use in the Final Battle in the Hills. Oh yeah, and , it is completely irrelevant that the *entire* Soviet army could have *theoretically* arrested the whole Afghan population. Wars are not fought by *entire* armies, nor are they decided by who has the greatest *theoretical* capabilities, nor (usually) is it to one's advantage to exterminate or relocate an entire population. Wars are fought by real-world, on-the-ground organized armed forces that have to fight & win despite their real-world strengths and weakenesses, warts and all. My point is that it's wrong to dismiss the effectiveness of Afghan resistance forces just because, theoretically, the Sovoiets could have shipped the whole population to Siberia if they had wanted to. Hell, they could have nuked the whole country if they wanted, just like we could have nuked all of Southeast Asia. The fact that there are good reasons why we didn't doesn't mean that either the VietCong/N. Vietnamese or the Afghans weren't effective and successful fighting forces who *won* the actual (not theoretical) wars they confronted, in the real world, on the ground. Regarding the use of RPGs against Hinds, as I understand things, RPG's *might* have been effective against Hind helicopters but only against the MI8 Hinds. Corect me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they were any good at all against the much more heavily armored MI-24 Hind gunships. It was quite an experience to see the Afghans' reaction to those MI-24s. Heavy machine guns, AA, RPGs -- there was nothing they had that could bring those fucking gunships down. The Afghans were really scared of them, which made me very very scared of them. But they fought the war anyway, and quite well. When they finally got their hands on Stingers, then it was like they almost couldn't wait to see an MI-24. Come and get it, Brezhnev!! Actually, I think it was Andropov by then. 1986, right?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  5, 2001 (12:35)", "body": "The Bonn conference is over and a new interim government for Afghanistan has been selected. Hamid Karzai will head the government. Who'd have thought a couple of months ago when Karzai snuck back into Afghanistan to try to get Pashtun tribal leaders to revolt against the Taliban that he would be the head of state on December 5. The Northern Alliance got three of the 5 deputy leadership positions, they're going to run defense, the interior, and foreign affairs. (The three young leaders mentioned in the NYT article yesterday got those jobs.) The other two slots will be held by a Hazara woman and a member of the Rome delegation who has been living in America and used to work for the World Bank. He'll be in charge of finance. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1692000/1692695.stm David Kline: Wonderful wonderful news. And a woman, too! And do I get a small nod here? I said the younger generation in the Northern Alliance would push Rabbani aside if he stonewalled. They did. I said the Northern Alliance -- indeed, all Afghans -- were sincere and would make any sacrifice neeeded for unity. They have. Btw, Christainne Amanpour and Sebastian Junger were both on Larry King Live last night. They both said how surprised they were that rumors of popular antipathy towards the Northern Alliance proved to be so wrong, as anyone could see when NA forces entered Kabul to popular applause. They also both congratulated the NA for its behavior throughout this conflict. Like I said, it ain't your father's generation of Northern Alliance anymore. Qanooni, Abdullah, Fahim -- these are modern-thinking people who've known mostly war their whole adult lives. They want to be part of a cosmopolitan world, not stuck in some 7th century village. And they represent the thinking of millions of Afghans who just want a real chance at education and peace and modern life. Wouldn't you? Anyway, kudos to the Afghans!!! . . . And please, just take a second to look at this article and remember Abdul Haq, who (you never know) might be the new Afghan Prime Minister rather than Hamid Karzai had he not been executed by the Taliban 6 weeks ago. So ironic. Anyway, there's a photo of the noose they used to hang my friend. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/05/international/asia/05HAQ.html?searchpv=nytToday"}, {"response": 37, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 11, 2001 (21:44)", "body": "http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1700000/1700445.stm SUFI RENAISSANCE AFTER TALEBAN FALL THE CITY OF HERAT HAS THE LARGEST NUMBER OF SUFIS By the BBC's Peter Greste Sufis are free to practice their ancient worship once again - and they are doing so with an exuberance denied to them for the past six years. ... At the core of their beliefs, Sufis maintain that all creatures - human and animal - are equal and that music and dance is the most direct route to Allah. ... \"Sufis have the right path to Almighty God and the Taleban's version of Islam wasn't real Islam. It was a corruption, an evil hypocrisy. They were terrorists and that is unacceptable in our religion. \"Now the sect is recovering its place in Afghanistan and its hundreds of thousands of followers are once more emerging from the shadows.\" ... Its mystical beliefs are undergoing a renaissance from a chapter of oppression to one of the country's most powerful movements. And this is demonstrates the importance of tolerance in finding the way forward for a peaceful Afghanistan. Only then, when the nation's people are free to live as their needs tell them, will 23 years of trauma and battle belong to the past."}, {"response": 38, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 12, 2001 (19:56)", "body": "An Iranian American From New Jersey *8-/ Beyond imagination Words fail to capture the despair November 30, 2001 The Iranian Email from Farnaz Fassihi to her friends. Fassihi is in Afghanistan reporting for the New Jersey Star Ledger. Our first impression upon leaving the Iranian border of Dogharoun and entering Afghanistan was that we had passed through the gates of Time.The road to Herat is non-existant and the phrase \"in the middle of no where\" was invented for this passage. For four hours the three-car convoy carrying us and a group of other foreign journalists drove through a bumpy, rocky and dusty field where other cars had paved a make-shift road. At times the cloud of dust was so intense that we could not see even 10 feet ahead of us. On our way, we passed villages made of mud huts. Its locals were sitting aimlessly around. There is no electricity and a water well is miles away. It is not possible to articulate or even write a story that will do justice to the misery here. Words and images fail to capture the intensity and the despair. It's beyond what any one of us reporters ever imagined. Along side the road were dozens of little children, some as young as four and five, who waved at the cars carrying foreigners and begged for food. They cried and pleaded for help. They didn't have shoes. They did't have warm clothes. Along the same road were also many crippled, arm-less and leg- less men begging for just the same and shouting at our cars to stop. Then as we thought we've seen the worst, we passed by Maslakh. The world's largest refugee camp with 200,000 displaced people awaiting help. The lucky ones are sheltered in mud houses and tents set up by the UNHCR. But there were at least a thousand people who had neither. They had simply camped on the bare ground. Today, a five-year-old girl died in front of the AP reporter who was visiting the camp. The Red Cross says every morning they find dead bodies of people who did not make it through the deadly cold night. Many are dying from hunger because relief efforts have not fully been resumed yet. Alas, we arrived in Herat and the city is slowly coming to life. It's uplifting to see how happy people are at the downfall of the Taliban and how quickly they are trying to resume to normalcy. Today, Herat held the first ever election in Afghanistan in 30 years and it was a nice thing to see. However, every time we step outside endless little faces gather around us and ask for help. Women cling to us and beg for us to take down their names in case aid was on the way. They are still clad in burqas but they walk around alone, shop and go about their daily routines.The men are either clean-shaved or have trimmed beards. There's been a line in front of the barber shop around the corner every day. As for us, when you see how desperate people are living, you are ashamed to complain about the lack of luxury. Our hotel is okay. It's safe. We have two armed guards at the door and a curfew at 8 p.m. when we are not allowed to leave this place. There is only electricity a few hours in the evening. At night it gets very cold. There are small oil heaters but they don't do much. No warm water to speak of and well, it's not exactly clean here either. We are already sick and on anti-biotic medication despite not eating nor drinking anything. I've brought canned food from Iran and the hotel has bottled water and fresh bread. Despite all this, I'm glad to be here. Before coming I was excited about the assignment , adventure, my career and bullshit like that. After two days here and this endless visible misery the only reason I can think of for being here is to tell stories that hopefully will help these people. God help us. - Farnaz Inshallah we will make it alive Flying from Herat to Kabul December 10, 2001 The Iranian Email from Farnaz Fassihi to her friends. Fassihi is in Afghanistan reporting for the New Jersey Star Ledger. I'm in Kabul. How I got here is a tale in itself. In what sounded like an adventure and felt like ultimate lunacy once we were there, me, Jon and two other journalists who are now our inseparable friends, boarded the only existing aircraft in Afghanistan on its first flight in the past two months from Herat to Kabul Thursday. It was all about \"Inshallahs\" and \"Salavats\" from beginning to end. The aircraft was a small 25 passenger Russian plane with two small engines. Aryana Airlines. It was old and rundown and it had just been repaired. The crew made a special flight from Kabul to Herat to come and check out a Boeing jet at an air base near Herat to see if they can get the jet going. They couldn't. We were advised in less than 24 hours that we can fly on Aryana's flight to Kabul. We were told to pack and run to the airport in 30 minuets, before the flight. The email from my editor read: \"Go to Kabul. But, do you really really want to be on Afghanistan's inaugural flight?\" We thought how bad can it be? We get to the airport and there are blown apart burnt a"}, {"response": 39, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 13, 2001 (21:22)", "body": "PUL-I-KHUMRI, Afghanistan, Dec. 12 \ufffd This northern Afghan town erupted in violence today as two anti- Taliban factions clashed, amid reports \ufffd later denied by the Pentagon \ufffd that American warplanes had intervened and bombed both sides. Two Northern Alliance generals said the fighting began when troops loyal to Sayed Jaffar, the former governor of Baghlan Province, attacked the Northern Alliance soldiers stationed in Pul-i-Khumri, a town just south of Kunduz. The issue was turf, they said. Sayed Jaffar had left Afghanistan in recent years, but returned this fall and wanted to govern again. He was angry, they said, that the Northern Alliance soldiers from the Panjshir Valley, primarily ethnic Tajiks, were in control of the region. General Atiqullah Baryalai, deputy defense minister for the Northern Alliance, said that Sayed Jaffar was supported by American aircraft, and that one armored vehicle was destroyed and 20 Northern Alliance soldiers were killed or wounded. \"The Americans bombed us,\" he said. \"It was a very bad mistake. I called them and asked them to stop, and they said they were sorry but they kept bombing.\" The chief spokesman for the United States Central Command denied that American warplanes had bombed Northern Alliance positions... If American planes did, indeed, bomb Northern Alliance units, it would not be the first time in the war. Two weeks ago, when the city of Kunduz fell, an American plane attacked a Northern Alliance position in a historic mud fortress inside the city, destroying seven trucks and killing several soldiers. Tajik soldiers blamed that attack on a rival warlord, saying he had called for the air strike on them because he was angry that he did not take the fortress first. Full story at: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/13/international/asia/13FIGH.html David Kline (dkline) Thu Dec 13 '01 (09:26) 12 lines \"Of all the shocks of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, those felt most strongly in the Bay Area have been ideological.\" The above is from yesterday's Rob Morse column in the SZan Francisco Chronicle. It seems appropos of some things we've been discussing. Anyone interested can find the article at: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/12/12/MN108041.DTL"}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Dec 25, 2001 (12:00)", "body": "\"The Taliban did not spring directly from hell. They sprang from Afghan culture strained through hell. They had roots and antecedents in Afghan culture .. \" http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2001/12/17/role_of_women/index.html"}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 30, 2001 (02:54)", "body": "Here's something off the wall: New Afghan Justice Minsister, Soft on Crime? \"There will be some changes from the time of the Taliban,\" he said. \"For example, the Taliban used to hang the victim's body in public for four days. We will only hang the body for a short time, say 15 minutes.\" Kabul's sports stadium, where the Taliban used to carry out public executions and amputations every Friday, would no longer be used. \"The stadium is for sports. We will find a new place for public executions,\" he said. Adulterers, both male and female, would still be stoned to death, Judge Zarif said, \"but we will use only small stones\". http://www.smh.com.au/news/0112/29/world/world8.html"}, {"response": 42, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan  2, 2002 (14:29)", "body": "David Kline (dkline) Wed Jan 2 '02 (09:22) 33 lines Is anyone here other than me getting a bit concerned about how QUIET the new government of Hamid Karzai has been in the last 2 weeks? I mean, this is no time for passivity and being reactive. Where are the bold new initiatives and programs? Easy for me to say, I realize, but I think he ought to be announcing a whole bunch of new programs -- even if for lack of money and organization they can't all be implemented now. The country needs a vision, & hope. What sorts of nw programs? 1) \"Widows & Orphans\" Welfare Program -- the first welfare payment system in Afghan history. Shouldn't be hard to get international sponsors. 2) \"Afghan Marshalls\" Program -- a heavily-armed roaming security force to guarantee safe and secure travel on the highways and byways. 3) \"Malalai Protection Service\" -- named after Afghanistan's legendary female freedom fighter, a gov't program to protect women from abuse and teach them about their rights & responsibilites in the new Afghanistan. 4) \"Little Muj Schoolhouse\" -- a massive free public education program funded by foreign sponsors and modeled on the US Head Start program. 5) \"Small Town Jirga\" Program -- government omnobudsmen to listen to the grievances of the people in a program of town hall democracy. Like I said, I know it's easy for me to say all the above. But I'm abit worried that the new government is getting bogged down in details just tryoing to find offices and phones for themselves and forgetting the fact that drift and inertia feed insecurity and factionalism. Bold new initiativews must be announced, even if they're largely only on paper."}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan  9, 2002 (09:14)", "body": "You thought it was hard to sit through \"War and Peace\" Afghan blockbuster: 9 hours of bloodshed, tears REUTERSJ[ TUESDAY, JANUARY 08, 2002JJ8:53:17 PM ] ABUL: Hundreds of Afghans crammed into a draughty theatre in the capital's Khairkhana district this week for a cinematic experience that would test the stamina of even the most ardent movie-goer. They came to see Resistance, a nine-hour, three-part film on the history of the Northern Alliance's struggle against the Taliban. They cheered for the heroes, booed at the villains, gasped at the gory details of death and bloodshed and wept as families were united on the silver screen. Afghanistan's film industry has never come close to matching the production- line output of India or Pakistan or even the more modest art-house offerings from neighbouring Iran. But what remains of the film industry hopes Resistance will be the first step towards revitalising a medium that was clumsily state-controlled during the decade-long Soviet occupation that ended in 1989 and then completely crushed by the Taliban who deemed it un-Islamic. STARTING FROM SCRATCH \"Basically we are starting from scratch again.\" Moghaven At, a producer, said in an interview on Monday. \"Everything has been destroyed, our archives are gone, our equipment is destroyed or broken even our expertise has been lost.\" Speaking at the near-deserted Afghan Film Studios set, Moghaven said anyone involved in the film industry either fled when the Taliban seized Kabul in 1996 or simply washed their hands of anything to do with the business. The Taliban descended on the studio in an orchestrated frenzy after they seized the capital in 1996. Huge piles of burnt film are still scattered in a warehouse, lit eerily by hundreds of bullet-holes that puncture the corrugated iron roof, letting in the sunlight. Mohammad Afzal Barialai, a film editor, said the Taliban spent more than two weeks methodically destroying an irreplaceable archive of film and music. \"It was like watching monsters destroying your house and your family,\" he said. \"I have been working in this studio for 30 years and all of my work - features, documentaries and news pieces, all of it - has been destroyed. Part of me died also.\" Actually some material did escape. Barialai risked death by hiding nine canisters of the earliest film ever shot in Afghanistan. Some of his colleagues did the same, and these fragments of history are now being dusted off to see if they survived their enforced cultural hibernation. KEEPING UP THE SKILL Many of the filmmakers fled the country after the Taliban took power, or escaped to try to practice their craft in territory controlled by the opposition Northern Alliance. \"We didn't have much equipment, but the (Northern Alliance) government had a small department of cultural and historical affairs and we operated from that,\" said Moghaven At. \"We filmed the resistance from the moment we left Kabul.\" Indeed, some of the most dramatic footage of Resistance is the evacuation of the capital almost overnight by nearly 500,000 people led by Ahmad Shah Masood, the commander assassinated two days before the September 11 attacks brought about the beginning of the end of the Taliban. The audience hissed sympathetically at the sight of elderly men and women hobbling barefoot from their homes. They cheered triumphantly at a sequence showing women pelting the corpses of dead Taliban fighters with stones. \"It is a very good film. Every Afghan must see it,\" said Mohammad Wazir, emerging blinking from the marathon session. Moghaven At hopes the Afghan film industry can rise from the ashes left by the Taliban's fiery destruction. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 51, "subject": "Pakistan", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 16, 2001 (10:49)", "body": "http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011015/ts/attack_musharraf_dc_2.html Pakistan Says U.S. Should 'Take Out' Taliban Leader"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Oct 16, 2001 (10:51)", "body": "http://www.dawn.com/2001/text/top7.htm Controversy brewing over Musharraf interview. Did it take place or not?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 24, 2001 (21:08)", "body": "Pakistan is evacuating Pakistanis who have been fighting alongside Afghan Taliban forces trapped in Kunduz. \"American officials, who have been evasive on this subject, say they do not have information on the planes. Pakistani officials today declined comment.\" \"The United States is indebted to Pakistan for its support of the war against terrorism but has said it wants any foreign fighters trapped in Kunduz captured or killed. Pakistan has made clear that it is deeply concerned about some of its agents and soldiers trapped in the town.\" ... \"Some alliance officials accused Gen. Abdul Rashid Dostum, an alliance commander, of striking a deal with the Pakistani government to evacuate several hundred foreign fighters. Atiqullah Baryalai, the deputy defense minister, was one of a handful of Northern Alliance leaders who asserted today that General Dostum had allowed more than 50 pickup trucks full of foreigners to leave Kunduz and gather at an undisclosed location outside Mazar-i-Sharif. Mr. Baryalai said he suspected that General Dostum may have acted at the request of the Pakistani government.\" http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nyt/20011124/wl/pakistanis_again_said_to_evacuate_allies_of_taliban_1.html"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 24, 2001 (21:30)", "body": "Washington Post: Pakistan Continues to Hold Nuclear Scientists Pakistan's military intelligence service continues to detain two nuclear scientists for questioning about their alleged connections to Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda terrorist group, senior Pakistani intelligence sources said today. \"We want to be absolutely sure before giving a clean chit to nuclear scientists who had confessed to having met Osama bin Laden, Mullah Omar and several al Qaeda leaders last year,\" said a senior Pakistani official. Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood and Abdul Majid have acknowledged meeting bin Laden and Taliban leader Mohammed Omar during at least three visits to Afghanistan last year, the sources said. But the scientists have insisted throughout the six-week investigation that those meetings were in connection with Ummah Tameer-I-Nau [Islamic Reconstruction], a relief agency they founded in 1999. [snip] Mahmood ... vigorously advocated extensive production of weapons-grade plutonium and uranium enrichment with a view toward equipping other Islamic countries with nuclear capabilities [snip] \"Mahmood was the strongest advocate of the view that only nuclear weapons could provide ultimate security to Muslim nations against infidel powers,\" said an MIT-trained Pakistani nuclear scientist who works at a key Pakistani nuclear facility and spoke on condition of anonymity. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6708-2001Nov23.html"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  3, 2001 (12:55)", "body": "Pakistan's Jihad Fervor Replaced by Resentment By KIM MURPHY, Times Staff Writer TALASH, Pakistan -- Mohammed Youssef tried to stop it, first calling the local religious leader on the phone, then following his convoy of young jihad recruits into Afghanistan and confronting him in person. Don't take them, Youssef said. They're just boys. They don't know how to fight. If it gets bad, they don't know how to run. \"I personally talked to Sufi Mohammed twice and requested him not to go to Afghanistan with the large number of young people, all untrained,\" Youssef, a 55-year-old veteran of the Afghan war with the Soviets, said over the weekend. \" 'Don't kill them,' I asked him. But he did not listen to me, and he refused.\" After the U.S.-led bombing campaign in Afghanistan began eight weeks ago, young Pakistani men from the deeply religious border region were clamoring for the chance to fight with the Taliban. In this small farming village in the northwest frontier, more than 60 youths joined thousands of others who followed Mohammed, charismatic founder of the fundamentalist Movement for the Enforcement of the Laws of Muhammad, across the rugged frontier to take up arms. A few weeks later, the Taliban was in substantial retreat, reports of Pakistani fighters being slaughtered were emerging, and Mohammed slipped quietly back across the border. Of the 60 jihadis who left with him from Talash, fewer than 25 have returned. \"It's a tragedy,\" Shansur Rehman, whose 23-year-old son was confirmed dead near Jalalabad, Afghanistan, said with a shrug. http://www.latimes"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec 26, 2001 (08:23)", "body": "Just in time for Xmas: Tuesday December 25, 3:50 AM Pakistan military warns of nuclear conflict with India By Raja Asghar CHAKOTHI, Pakistan (Reuters) - A senior Pakistani army officer said on Monday continued border clashes with India could spark an uncontrollable flareup involving nuclear weapons. [. . .] \"Because in that situation, that tension, even a small little incident can result in a chain reaction which nobody will be able to control,\" he told Reuters Television at Muzaffarabad, capital of the Pakistani-held part of Kashmir. He said an all-out war between the two nations could \"become really horrific for the entire world\". Asked if nuclear weapons could be used, Yaqub, giving what he called his personal view, said: \"But if there is a war between the two countries and if any country feels that it comes to its own survival, probably there won't be any hesitation to use nuclear weapons.\" http://sg.news.yahoo.com/reuters/asia-80387.html"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 28, 2001 (09:59)", "body": "Three \"must read\" articles. http://www.thefridaytimes.com Najam Sethi, in his weekly editorial: ---------------------- As India ferries its tanks and missiles to the border to \"teach Pakistan a lesson\" for \"meddling in Kashmir\", it might sensibly pause to consider its error. One nuclear power can\ufffdt possibly teach another nuclear power any lessons through war. Nor can it rest assured that its military intervention will have limited objectives. Escalation is inevitable when each side is able and willing to hit back, as both India and Pakistan discovered to their mutual discomfort in the Kargil conflict. Equally, Pakistan\ufffds old strategic doctrine of supporting proxy wars in India\ufffds periphery, especially through an Islamic jehad in Kashmir, so that the conventional military balance is restored to more manageable proportions, is out of sync with recent realities. In particular, the post 9/11 world sees Islamic jehad as pure terrorism that must be stamped out everywhere. Then, Khaled Ahmed, who has just been thunderous in his critique of Pakistan government policy the last month or so: Extremism and shariat: One reason Talibanisation spread in Pakistan was the identity between what Mulla Umar wanted to enforce in Afghanistan and that which the ideological state of Pakistan wants to enforce as shariat . There is a general misconception in Pakistan that the Taliban actually put forward a vision of Islam which was alien to Pakistan. The truth of the matter is that the Taliban vision was alien to Afghanistan and was exported to it from Pakistan. The department of Amr bil Maruf , responsible for most of the extreme measures taken in Afghanistan, was actually proposed by the PML government of Nawaz Sharif in its 15th Amendment. The only difference is that Mulla Umar went ahead and implemented what the Pakistani state was first in contemplating. The Council of Islamic Ideology in Pakistan has been recommending institutional reform - for instance the inquisition-like office of Hisba - that would 'complete' the ideological state. And finally an intricately argued piece by Ejaz Haider on the dynamics of the India/Pakistan conflict and the status of Kashmir: There is need therefore for India to give General Pervez Musharraf the room to implement the rethought policy. The problem the general is facing just now is the all- or nothing situation he is confronted with. That is a problem inherent in any policy that has been allowed to run longer than it should have. Given India\ufffds refusal to talk Kashmir, the issue before Islamabad is whether Kashmir can be kept alive without its force- multiplying role -- i.e., whether the Kashmiri groups themselves will be able to sustain New Delhi\ufffds repressive policies and allow Pakistan to play a purely political role. This is especially important if India continues to deny that Kashmir is a dispute. Nicholas Kristof in the Friday NYT: -------------- The scariest aspect of the crisis between India and Pakistan today is not the way troops are exchanging artillery fire along the snowy mountains of Kashmir. Rather, it is the way the escalations mimic war simulations held over the years. Spooks and scholars have conducted many mock conflicts between the two countries, with specialists playing the parts of leaders on each side. Very frequently the result is nuclear war. In conversations with experts, including those who launched nuclear strikes in these war games, the precariousness of the South Asian nuclear balance is clear. Paradoxically, the tiny number of nuclear weapons on each side creates instability and an incentive to launch a first strike -- use your arsenal or lose it. Now, I don't really think that another war will erupt between India and Pakistan, or that if it does it will go nuclear. Essentially what is happening is that the Indian government is huffing and bluffing, both for domestic political gain and to scare Pakistan into making concessions. As Stephen P. Cohen, an American scholar, puts it: \"The Indians are escalating the crisis to an international level. They see this as a good opportunity to press Pakistan.\" http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/28/opinion/28KRIS.html"}, {"response": 8, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar 14, 2002 (21:39)", "body": "I communicate with a college student working on his Master's degree. He attends university in Islamabad, and he is so very dear that he worries about me when he is actually the one who is in harm's way! He's Pashtun and very special. I wish him a long a happy life but he needs to get away from there. Unhappily our government and his are not on the best of terms and permits to enter this country for graduate school is very difficult. I wish I had better news for him. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 52, "subject": "Travel in the Post Attack World", "response_count": 14, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 14, 2001 (06:50)", "body": "I won't curtail any travel plans, it's starting to feel like the Airlines are safe again from all that I've gathered on the news lately. Anyone have any travel experiences to relate?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Nov 16, 2001 (21:36)", "body": "it doesn't really change my plans any--i hardly ever go anywhere. but i will say that my mother had planned to visit germany last month but her family there advised her against it for now. as far as going into public places, hasn't affected me, still gotta do what you gotta do, y'know?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Nov 19, 2001 (21:40)", "body": "On Oct. 1 we flew from Baltimore to Ontario to Zurich and back on Oct. 22. Airports were deserted in North America (with Nat'l Guards and machine guns posted prominently), Europe was business as usual. No undue searching at any checkpoint, just the standard metal detector and x-ray machine for carry-ons. Had to walk across a disinfection carpet (remember foot and mouth disease? That story got blown off the headlines) on the way back. Took trains, cabs, funiculars, cable cars, etc...no extra security anywhere over there. S. flew to Denver last week, nothing out of the ordinary either."}, {"response": 4, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Nov 21, 2001 (21:39)", "body": "what's a funicular? L.A. had (has?) dudes on certain random rooftops with machine guns at the ready."}, {"response": 5, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Nov 21, 2001 (21:40)", "body": "(and i should mention that these aren't the bad guys sitting on the rooftops either)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "autumn", "date": "Fri, Nov 23, 2001 (16:30)", "body": "A funicular is a sort of cog \"elevator\" that ascends a steep grade, such as a mountainside. I imagine with Thanksgiving that the airports/planes were doing a brisk business. Haven't heard of any episodes, though."}, {"response": 7, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Nov 23, 2001 (23:35)", "body": "*Sigh* I am less than entusiastic to visit my son in California. Rather than never seeing him again, I will travel by air. I simply do not like the companions with whom I will be travelling. I used to LOVE flying!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 28, 2001 (10:01)", "body": "http://www.laughlab.co.uk/home.html This study shows that Canadians are least likely to think jokes funny of all nationalities. Germans are easiest to tickle, America isn't far behind Germany."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Dec 28, 2001 (11:10)", "body": "Tom Friedman has a pretty sensible column in the Wednesday NYT about this. He suggests that we fly naked, or face the consequences: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/26/opinion/26FRIE.html"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan  9, 2002 (09:13)", "body": "fried again ;-( Anthrax mail cleaning zaps digital gadgets Digital dream gadgets are being irreparably zapped by an irradiation process the U.S. Postal Service has used since October to sanitize mail against anthrax threats, an electronics trade group said on Tuesday. Compact flash memory cards used to store data on many name-brand digital cameras and handheld computers face not just data loss but become entirely inoperable when subjected to electron beam irradiation, the CompactFlash Association said. --Reuters"}, {"response": 11, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar 14, 2002 (22:53)", "body": "The Laugh lab link no longer works. I've long espoused opposing generals be stripped naked to do their negotiating. I just don't want to be there taking notes when they do so. On the other hand... Maybe I do. GeoAnthropology is languishing and I could always use a good laugh. I'm feeling better about flying since last November. I am looking forward to visiting California even if it is boring to fly 5 hours over the ocean with nothing to look at. I've not even seen whales from up there though I have looked!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Mar 14, 2002 (22:56)", "body": "Terry, is that still true about my 64 KB digital camera flash card being fried? Thanks for the warning!"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Mar 15, 2002 (07:25)", "body": "Fill me in with more details, what's the background on this?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Mar 15, 2002 (18:43)", "body": "In the 10th item of this topic you posted: Anthrax mail cleaning zaps digital gadgets Digital dream gadgets are being irreparably zapped by an irradiation process the U.S. Postal Service has used since October to sanitize mail against anthrax threats, an electronics trade group said on Tuesday. Compact flash memory cards used to store data on many name-brand digital cameras and handheld computers face not just data loss but become entirely inoperable when subjected to electron beam irradiation, the CompactFlash Association said. --Reuters I was wondering if it still applies. I was about to order another flash card for my digital camera but decided I'd wait until I heard moer about it. It never occurred to me that it would fry the memory inside! travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 53, "subject": "Australia", "response_count": 6, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Fri, May 17, 2002 (04:00)", "body": "Hi all And I got a John Denver song that you might like to hear. It is called SING AUSTRALIA. I come to Australia as many people do To see the old koala, hitch a ride on a kangaroo To hear somebody call me mate and call somebody blue To hear the aboriginee play a didgeridoo Some of you came as prisoners two centuries ago Some of you come as kings and queens your blessing to bestow Some of you stand all swelled with pride, some with shattered wings But all of us come with open hearts to hear Australia sing In the desert, in the city In the mountains and in the sea In the stories and in the people I can hear Australia sing Waltzing Matilda, the men of Galipoli Clancy of the Overflow, Crocodile Dundee The myth of all creation, the teaching of baiame The legends of a dreamtime for all eternity And in this celebration of a brief two hundred years The cost to build a nation in blood and sweat and tears And if we stand divided, divided we will fall But if we stand together we shall conquer all In the desert, in the city In the mountains and in the sea In the stories and in the people I can hear Australia sing Sing Australia, Sing Australia, Sing Australia, Sing Australia In the sails on Sydney Harbour I can hear Australia sing Rob"}, {"response": 2, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May 26, 2002 (20:28)", "body": "Good on ya, mate! Where is AnneH ??? Her topic awaits! Thanks Rob."}, {"response": 3, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Thu, Jun 13, 2002 (02:32)", "body": "Hi all New Zealanders and Australians Two nations, with very different tales to tell, yet coming as former colonies of the Motherland. Two nations with very different but very amazing arrays of biological, and physical characteristics in terms of landscapes. One housing some of the oldest rock on earth, with few mountains in excess of 7000 feet, and the other very much a young child with earthquakes, volcanoes and active mountain building. One first housed convicts and is home of one of the oldest civilisations on earth. The other was not discovered until only a thousand years before present. One is a constitutional monarchy with a federal and state government setup, while the other has a central government and regional councils. But there are many many similarities between Australia and New Zealand as allies, as friends, and as neighbours. We had our baptism of fire at Gallipoli in 1915 at the cost of thousands of lives. Thus, the ANZAC tradition was born. Australians and New Zealanders share many things in common: we play the same sports - cricket, rugby, hockey, netball and yachting. We lead very similar lifestyles and have very close economic, political, cultural, and social ties. Both had periods of conflict between the white settlers and the indigenous peoples who inhabited what were to become colonies of a land about which the indigenous of both knew nothing. Although New Zealand was booted out of the ANZUS (Australia-New Zealand-United States)treaty for it's anti nuclear stance, which is steadfastly supported today on both sides of the Tasman, we continue very close military ties with the Australians. We are also the fiercest of rivals. Just go to the Fisher and Paykel annual netball clash (due in a couple of weeks)between Australia and New Zealand and hear the crowd go nuts. Just go to a stadium in New Zealand and hear the haka reverberate in the Bledisloe Cup or to Stadium Australia and hear Waltzing Matilda. Bring up the 1981 under arm incident and blame the Chappell brothers. Rob P.S Anne, Pavlova is a Kiwi invention..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Jun 13, 2002 (18:43)", "body": "You mean the meringue-y dessert? What is netball? Is there a different name for it in the US, or is it unique to ANZAC?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "AotearoaKiwi", "date": "Fri, Jun 14, 2002 (03:05)", "body": "Hi all Netball. A seven a side team sport predominantly a womens sport but also now played by men. Similar to basketball except that you cannot run with the ball but pass after a couple of steps. Scoring is simple. 1 point for every goal scored and one point for penalties. It lasts 60 minutes and is divided into quarters. There are seven positions around the court. Goal-keep, Goal-attack, Goal defence Goal shoot, Wing defence, Wing attack, Centre. Few have heard of it outside of the Commonwealth. But the US and Canada have netball teams in the competition. World Standings top four at the end of the 1999 World Cup Australia New Zealand England Jamaica *** TOP TWO HAVE REMAINED UNCHANGED SINCE 1991 *** Rob"}, {"response": 6, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Jul 10, 2002 (21:18)", "body": "Rob has the netball thing happened yet? I guess my chances of hearing it on RNZI unless it is on the net are nil unless I get really lucky. Have they happened yet? What was the outcome? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 54, "subject": "Barbados", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul  1, 2002 (22:23)", "body": "The derivation of calypso rhythms can be traced back to the arrival of the first African slaves to Barbados and other Caribbean islands in the seventeenth century. The artform, which was developed in Trinidad, combines the skills of story-telling, singing and instrument making, and has since been influenced by European, North American and other Caribbean cultures. Calypso is a unique form of music that is an integral part of the Barbadian cultural landscape. The calypso usually involves some social commentary, typically a humorous satire on social and political events, with an infectious beat. Other calypsos are strictly for \"wuking up\"! Calypso became highly organized in Barbados in 1974, with the revival of the Crop Over Festival. Today, calypso is an integral part of the festival, with the Pic-O-De-Crop Calypso Competition being one of the most popular events. During Crop Over, approximately nine calypso tents (organized groups of calypsonians) perform several times weekly. Eighteen of these calypsonians go forward to the semi-finals of the competition, with seven advancing to the finals to challenge the previous year's monarch. The youth of Barbados are also involved in calypso, with several children (under 16 years) taking part in the Junior Calypso Monarch competition, which serves as a training ground for the calypsonians of the future. Based on the talent and enthusiasm of these youngsters, the future of calypso in Barbados looks very bright."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul  1, 2002 (22:24)", "body": "Converted Calypso Since both reggae from Jamaica and soca from Trinidad are very popular in Barbados, a fusion of the two was always likely. This fusion came in the form of ragga-soca - a rhythm that is faster than reggae but slower than up-tempo soca. Ringbang is a fusion of all the music of the Caribbean with the focus is on the rhythm rather than the melody. Since it's creation in 1994, ringbang has grown in popularity in Barbados and throughout the Caribbean. A number of Barbadian artistes have gained exposure and recognition throughout the Caribbean and beyond due to their natural talent, musical creativity and perseverance. Among those that have received such recognition are: The Mighty Gabby, David Kirton, Red Plastic Bag and John King, bands Krosfyah, Square One and Spice, and jazz saxophonist Arturo Tappin, who continues to thrill audiences throughout the world. On this small island in the sun, there is a diverse musical landscape that continues to produce outstanding artistes, welcomes international performers and influences the development of music worldwide. The derivation of calypso rhythms can be traced back to the arrival of the first African slaves to Barbados and other Caribbean islands in the seventeenth century. The artform, which was developed in Trinidad, combines the skills of story-telling, singing and instrument making, and has since been influenced by European, North American and other Caribbean cultures. Calypso is a unique form of music that is an integral part of the Barbadian cultural landscape. The calypso usually involves some social commentary, typically a humorous satire on social and political events, with an infectious beat. Other calypsos are strictly for \"wuking up\"! Calypso became highly organized in Barbados in 1974, with the revival of the Crop Over Festival. Today, calypso is an integral part of the festival, with the Pic-O-De-Crop Calypso Competition being one of the most popular events. During Crop Over, approximately nine calypso tents (organized groups of calypsonians) perform several times weekly. Eighteen of these calypsonians go forward to the semi-finals of the competition, with seven advancing to the finals to challenge the previous year's monarch. The youth of Barbados are also involved in calypso, with several children (under 16 years) taking part in the Junior Calypso Monarch competition, which serves as a training ground for the calypsonians of the future. Based on the talent and enthusiasm of these youngsters, the future of calypso in Barbados looks very bright. http://www.barbados.org/music.htm Emerson, 8p6qa, (ilink 6922), spoke to us on echolink on 7/1/02. mailto://emersoncyrus51@hotmail.com travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 55, "subject": "National Parks and Monuments of the West", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jul 20, 2002 (09:03)", "body": "I have spent some time in the national parks and wilderness areas of California, Oregon and British Columbia. One of my favorites is Big Sur. I have vivid memories of sitting on a coastal mountain watching the sun dip in to the Pacific Ocean. This is 90 miles of rugged coast between Cambia on the South and Carmel on the North. \ufffdBig Sur is the drive down the coast from Point Lobos to Nepenthe,\ufffd said photographer Cole Weston, son of Edward Weston and lifelong resident of Big Sur. \ufffdThus, Highway 1, with its twin bridges and vistas, turns and grades is an integral part of today\ufffds Big Sur experience.\ufffd"}, {"response": 2, "author": "cascadeclimber", "date": "Sat, Jul 20, 2002 (11:05)", "body": "I was at Big Sur, Terry. Its such a beautiful area. Nothing like what we have down here in southern California. The coves and lagoons are so fascinating, especially if there are dolphins and sea otters swimming out there. Almost every time I go though, its always overcast or foggy, but that's central and northern California for ya."}, {"response": 3, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jul 23, 2002 (15:17)", "body": "Great Topic, Julie! Brilliant. Mention a link to it is your Geo topic. I juyst now found it by accident!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Jul 23, 2002 (15:19)", "body": "On the flight from Sacramento to Louisville we flew over Lake Tahoe, Glen Caanyon Dam, Bryce and Zion National Parks and... The Texas Stadium is that ids what they call that place the Dallas Cowboys play football... Been to all of them but the Texas one on the ground also."}, {"response": 5, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Jul 29, 2002 (21:59)", "body": "We visited Big Sur a few times when we spent that month in Monterey last year. I abhor wind of any sort and so spent most of my time in Big Sur curled into a fetal position on the beach waiting for my people to come back from their explorations..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul 30, 2002 (08:07)", "body": "Plasket campground has a great hiking trail and an incredible mountain stream with mint growing all around. Forget what that mint is called. I was driving down highway one in my school bus and the engine blew up right at that campground and I had to pull off to the shoulder. Ten minutes after sitting there some hippie guy named Bob pulls up and sizes up my situation. After talking to him a short while he tells me, \"you can have the engine in my pickup turuck sitting up on that ridge\" and he points skyward toward the top of the coast range. Sure enought, he helped me tow his truck down to my schoolbus and helped build a teepee mount with a come-a-long and we popped that engine out of that old 55 International bus and popped his pickup engine in there and I was on my merry way again. Cost $5 for a gasket. I had to hitch hike in to Monterey to get it. What a cosmic occurence! Plasket Creek is about 30 miles north of San Simeon on Highway One."}, {"response": 7, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Jul 31, 2002 (16:35)", "body": "Cosmic, indeed! Are you sure it was mint and not peyote? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 56, "subject": "Florida", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Oct  1, 2002 (15:56)", "body": "Terry, does this consist of what is known as SPAM?????????? Delete it if you wish. I think Spring does not need ads. Not this sort, anyway."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct  2, 2002 (12:21)", "body": "It was spam but I cahnged with to be a more postive topic. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 57, "subject": "Hot Springs and Arkansas", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  4, 2005 (14:23)", "body": "been to hot springs and little rock....only spent a day and night in arkansas...."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep  4, 2005 (19:52)", "body": "Planning a trip there soon for the Hot Springs Documentary Film Festival. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 58, "subject": "web sites bbs and other travel on the net", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Feb 14, 2005 (06:00)", "body": "http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/ has great travel tips for just about anywhere in the world. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 59, "subject": "Mexico", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Feb 14, 2005 (06:00)", "body": "pictures of Mexico http://community.webshots.com/user/gloriayrandy http://los Altos region. For a look at our life http://Rollybrook.com shows my retirement life in Mexico and a whole lot more including a picture story of building a house -- in progress. http://sviweb.sccd.ctc.edu/mexico/ http://sviweb.sccd.ctc.edu/sparks/nome.htm http://www.ajmorris.com/mex/chapala.htm http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291991823&code=257555 \ufffd8&mode=invite http://www.lib.csufresno.edu/SubjectResources/SpecialCollect \ufffdions/Photographs/Topophoto.html http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/ganders \ufffd\ufffdon/ga/index.htm http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/ganderson/ga/index \ufffd.htm http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/sdwells/oldtj/Image3.h \ufffdtml http://www.virtualtourist.com/Lyn_2 travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 6, "subject": "Curacao - a Carribean island", "response_count": 18, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "westbaan", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (04:48)", "body": "Actually it's nearly 150.000 people living there. The climate is very good , around 30 degrees Celsius with a nice wind to make it feel very comfortable. Furthermore there are lovely beaches and good facilities to stay. I've been there on 3 occasions and have loved it every time. Some diving, snorting, fishing, swimming and relaxing on the beach at daytime. Afterwards dining out followed by latin dancing. I just enjoyed it very much!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (08:37)", "body": "So I was just a little bit off on my population estimate!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (09:15)", "body": "I hear they have great diving in Curacao. One of my colleagues has some pictures of himself feeding sharks at some kind of local marine facility (of course the sharks are behind glass)."}, {"response": 4, "author": "JohnD", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (13:24)", "body": "Curacao indeed has great diving. The place Terry is talking about is called Animal Encounters and is located at the Seaquarium. You can feed sharks through a small hole in a plastic wall. And you are surrounded by stingrays and a lot of fish. All around the southcoast of the island are perfect diving locations. Most of these can be reached from the coast, so you don't need a boat. The water is clear and warm. I'm not wearing a divesuit, only a T-shirt under my BC."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 19, 1997 (16:12)", "body": "John, do you run some kind of diving service? What's the best time of year to visit Curacao? Are there seasons there as such?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "ROBERTO", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 1997 (22:01)", "body": "Hi, I am also a diver. My brotherlaw and I are diving since july last year. There are no seasons in particular with regards to diving. I it's a nice 84 to 86 degrees year round. We have lots of beaches including white sandy ones. We're in the carnaval season with lots of activities every weekends from now till february 9th thats when we have a big parade. (it's some what like the mardigrass)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (02:30)", "body": "Glad you're joining us Roberto. Check in often! Do they have large schools of stingrays there like they do in the Cayman Islands? Austin has it's version of Carnaval every year too. It's the ultimate party of the year. What date is the biggest Carnaval event in Curacao?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "brans", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (13:45)", "body": "Hello everybody, I'm Brans, I was born at Curacao and lived there for 13 jears. Sorry, I cannot recall the date of the carnaval event, I just know there are two major events. the first is carnaval for the children and the second is carnaval for the adults. The events have one week in between. I can tell you a lott about windsurfing on Curacao I you are interested."}, {"response": 9, "author": "leonard", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (16:57)", "body": "Hi, I lived in Curacao for a log period. It is a small nice island with a good climate Diving is fine, bud also the people The food is good and the drinks cool As you can understand I'm found on Curacao O yeh BTW the Carnaval was last week I hope that I can return to Curacao this summer The plan is to start a business over there Something with the Internet and communications., If there is someone interested I will here from you Leo"}, {"response": 10, "author": "JohnD", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (19:20)", "body": "I'm not running a diving service over here,but I'm addicted to diving. If possible I dive once ore twice a week, once during the weekend and once at night during weekdays. The diferences between the seasons are very small. During the winter season (now) it is raining more, which means that there are days with rain. even then, the sun is present almost every day. At the moment it's the time for the carnival. This week the main activity is the tumba festival. At that festival the carnival hit for this year will be chosen. Next week the jump-ups are starting again, which are meant as a warming up for the big parade at sunday 9th of february."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (21:56)", "body": "Welcome Thiemo, what is a good windsurfing rig? And how much does one cost? We have windsurfing places around Austin. Windy Point is one. Do you have constant breezes? Leo, if you're interested in a net business, you may want to get in touch with the boomer. I hear he rules the net in Curacao. (that would be Paul). And JohnD, you have an idyllic life. Want to trade places? What kind of musical instrument is the tumba? A drum? Will you let us know what hit is chosen? Jump-ups? Exsqueeze me?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 1997 (23:30)", "body": "And another naive Curacao question. What is the size of Curacao and how many cities are there? What does it cost for an average sized house (in US dollars)?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "JohnD", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (04:51)", "body": "Some answers and a bit more explaining about my earlier writing: Terry, We don't have large schools of stingrays, but we have some individual stingrays here. That makes it more interesting if you see one. Furthermore we have turtles. Along the southcoast there are no sharks, but I have heard they live alond the nordcoast and around 'Klein Curacao', an even smaller island nearby. The size of Cuaracao is about 60 kilometers long and 5 - 15 kilometers wide. So it is a small island. We have only one real city, so we speak of THE city; it is called Willemstad. It is located along the entrance of the natural harbour. One side is called Punda and the other side Otrabanda, which means 'other side' in the local language Papiamentu. Jump-ups are called so because a lot of people are jumping on the tones of carnival music, while they slowly walk/jump behind a trailer with a music group or a DJ. The tumba is a ritme. I thinks the ritme is originaly from Africa. It is the most favorite music over here, although the last few years also the calypso is heard. The calypso is the favorite music from our neighbouring island Aruba. So, that's it for now. I have to go to work. From a lovely island, signing of, John"}, {"response": 14, "author": "marga", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (22:55)", "body": "Hello!! How nice to find another site on the web about Curacao! I lived on Curacao from 1961 until 1968 and spen the nicest years of my life there! ( my teenage Years) I have been back there only 2 times unfortunately the latest being in 1987.... I still believe that there are some people that live there now that I grew up with. I would love to hear from them!! My fondest wish is to return there and retire there. If I could find a job there now i would move right away!!! Anybody who has the chance to vi it it should do so. I hope to check this site out and perhaps i will see someone that i grew up with ! Ajo!!!!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (23:38)", "body": "What have you been doing since you left Curacao marga? Can you tell us about some of your experiences in Curacao in the 60s. Was the 60s there anything like the 60s in the States?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "marga", "date": "Tue, Jan 28, 1997 (22:39)", "body": "Hello Terry! In answer to your question about life in the sixties in Curacao.... It was GREAT... I don't believe it was quite like the States as it was rather isolated so the drug and hippy culture was not as obvious as in North America and Europe! It was very much more innocent then! At least it seemed to me that way! We certainly did hear about it all and we too had Beatle mania etc , but much more subdued!! Most of our fun consisted of school in the am and then off to the beach on the weekends and swimming, and sailing of course.... In the afternoons one did their homework as there was no school in the afternoon ( too hot and no airconditioning). I certainly did miss school dances in the outdoors under the stars with a balmy breeze when I moved to Canada !! Looking back it was a very idyllic type of life back then, but then again this was while I was in my teens! Can you imagine spending your \"Sweet Sixteenth\" birthday in November at a party under a tree with coloured lights in your back yard with a clear sky above dotted with stars?!!! Hope this gives you a glance into the past on \"Dushi Korsow\" P.S ..I live in Peterborough , Ontario Canada now (Brrrrr). Bye-bye from Snowy Peterborough, Marga"}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  7, 1997 (20:05)", "body": "Good to hear from Margaret, John, Leo and brans. I have been getting a lot of emails from Curacao folks and hope they find their way here soon. Clifford writes that he is getting online from St. Eds and see Paul Boomgaart on a regular basis. Paul is one of the major players in the internet movement in Curaco. I had another email from someone who is thinking about moving to Curacao and setting up and Internet business. What has been going on in Curacao lately? How do you connect to the Internet in Curacao? I hope all those folks who have emailed me emerge form the woodwork. They have some very interesting comments."}, {"response": 18, "author": "Cliff", "date": "Sat, Feb  8, 1997 (15:24)", "body": "Hello everybody! The Carnival festivities aren't quite over yet. Tomorrow the Big Parade called \"Gran Marcha\", which is the main event, will take place and the streets of Otrabanda will be packed! People will leave their homes early in the morning (4:30 AM) just to make sure that they'll have a good spot to watch this parade. It's going to be a long day filled with dancing, jumping, eating and DRINKING!!! (Which is OK, since the next day, monday, is a national holiday. If some of you are thinking about visiting this island in the future, I would recommend going either during the Carnival (mid Jan- mid Feb), or in December (Lots of parties, fireworks). Internet: There are three internet providers in Curacao: IBM, Curanet (www.cura.net) and Setel (local phone company). This service is relatively new and very expensive. Per month $35, 10 hours free, 3,50 per additional hour. Leo, is your last name by any chance Dos Santos?? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 60, "subject": "China", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr  6, 2005 (09:03)", "body": "I talked to a guy in China who lives where they make the famous beer. His city is Qingdao, and his name is Allen."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Apr  6, 2005 (09:07)", "body": "Allen skyped me this morning. Skype is \"the new phone company\" according to Adam Curry. Allen is a businessman in to electronics. He sells electronic components and devices. Diodes. Resistors. He is in a joint venture with a famous American Comapny. MCC. Austin, Texas. They have a 20% share of his company (MCC has part ownership in his company). travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 61, "subject": "New York City, New York", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sat, Jul 22, 2006 (09:56)", "body": "GREEN MANHATTAN Why New York is the greenest city in the U.S. By David Owen Published in The New Yorker 10/18/04 My wife and I got married right out of college, in 1978. We were young and na\ufffdve and unashamedly idealistic, and we decided to make our first home in a utopian environmentalist community in New York State. For seven years, we lived, quite contentedly, in circumstances that would strike most Americans as austere in the extreme: our living space measured just seven hundred square feet, and we didn't have a dishwasher, a garbage disposal, a lawn, or a car. We did our grocery shopping on foot, and when we needed to travel longer distances we used public transportation. Because space at home was scarce, we seldom acquired new possessions of significant size. Our electric bills worked out to about a dollar a day. The utopian community was Manhattan. (Our apartment was on Sixty-ninth Street, between Second and Third.) Most Americans, including most New Yorkers, think of New York City as an ecological nightmare, a wasteland of concrete and garbage and diesel fumes and traffic jams, but in comparison with the rest of America it's a model of environmental responsibility. By the most significant measures, New York is the greenest community in the United States, and one of the greenest cities in the world. The most devastating damage humans have done to the environment has arisen from the heedless burning of fossil fuels, a category in which New Yorkers are practically prehistoric. The average Manhattanite consumes gasoline at a rate that the country as a whole hasn't matched since the mid-nineteen-twenties, when the most widely owned car in the United States was the Ford Model T. Eighty-two per cent of Manhattan residents travel to work by public transit, by bicycle, or on foot. That's ten times the rate for Americans i general, and eight times the rate for residents of Los Angeles County. New York City is more populous than all but eleven states; if it were granted statehood, it would rank 51st in per-capita energy use. \"Anyplace that has such tall buildings and heavy traffic is obviously an environmental disaster-except that it isn't,\" John Holtzclaw, a transportation consultant for the Sierra Club and the Natural Resources Defense Council, told me. \"If New Yorkers lived at the typical American sprawl density of three households per residential acre, they would require many times as much land. They'd be driving cars, and they'd have huge lawns and be using pesticides and fertilizers on them, and then they'd be overwatering their lawns, so that runoff would go into streams.\" The key to New York's relative environmental benignity is its extreme compactness. Manhattan's population density is more than eight hundred times that of the nation as a whole. Placing one and a half million people on a twenty-three-square-mile island sharply reduces their opportunities to be wasteful, and forces the majority to live in some of the most inherently energy efficient residential structures in the world: apartment buildings. It also free huge tracts of land for the rest of America to sprawl into. My wife and I had our first child in 1984. We had both grown up in suburbs, and we decided that we didn't want to raise our tiny daughter in a huge city. Shortly after she learned to walk, we moved to a small town in northwestern Connecticut, about 90 miles north of midtown Manhattan. Our house, which was built in the late 1700s, is across a dirt road from a nature preserve and is shaded by tall white-pine trees. After big rains, we can hear a swollen creek rushing by at the bottom of the hill. Deer, wild turkeys, and the occasional black bear feed themselves in our yard. From the end of our driveway, I can walk several miles through woods to an abandoned nineteenth-century railway tunnel, while crossing only one paved road. Yet our move was an ecological catastrophe. Our consumption of electricity went from roughly four thousand kilowatt-hours a year, toward the end of our time in New York, to almost thirty thousand kilowatt-hours in 2003-and our house doesn't even have central air-conditioning. We bought a car shortly before we moved, and another one soon after we arrived, and a third one ten years later. (If you live in the country and don't have a second car, you can't retrieve your first car from the mechanic after it's been repaired; the third car was the product of a mild midlife crisis, but soon evolved into a necessity.) My wife and I both work at home, but we manage to drive thirty thousand miles a year between us, mostly doing ordinary errands. Nearly everything we do away from our house requires a car trip. Renting a movie and later returning it, for example, consumes almost two gallons of gasoline, since the nearest Blockbuster is ten miles away and each transaction involves two round trips. When we lived in New Y rk, heat escaping from our apartment helped to heat the apartment above ours; nowadays, many of the BTUs"}]}, {"num": 62, "subject": "Thailand HDtv video with Tony and Leighton Hodges", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Aug  6, 2006 (11:01)", "body": "http://spring.net/yapp-bin/public/read/movies/72/since/-365 is the url to bookmark for this topic."}, {"response": 2, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Aug  6, 2006 (11:10)", "body": "Pattaya Thailand and other location shots August 6th, 2006 | | Make me happy! pt -shot 10 min in pattaya last nite \ufffd5min on street and 5 min in heaven above a go go -shot in go go eccellent and a overview re historicity of straight theatre and lysergic underground as well as jl raising girl from dead at 625 ashbury -2nite we will shoot beach and jose cohens french restaurant cum art gallery AU BON COIN ,which is inspiration for CAFE BEBERT in THE MAGICK PAPERS -THIS WEEK WE WILL BE ON LOCATION IN khao san road AND chao praya river -KHAO SAN is bohemian section \ufffdthere is a boat to ORIENTAL HOTEL on river to provide background -also hope to include VIVIENNE WESTWOOD EXHIBIT AT BIG E"}, {"response": 3, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Aug  6, 2006 (11:10)", "body": "Thai HDtv film for SXSW in progress August 6th, 2006 | | Make me happy! Leighton Hodges and I shot ten min. In Pattaya last night. 5 min. in Heaven Above GoGo. Footage presentable and great background shots of ladies of the night. We will shoot beach road this aftenoon around sunset and Au Bon Coin galllery cum restaurant. Brilliant French food and our host Jose Cohen is the inspiration for Cafe Bebert in the Magik P. Cafe Bebert is named after Louis Ferdinand Celine the great french writer\ufffds cat. We will shoot in BK the Bohemian sector of Kohasan Road and take the boat to the Oriental Hotel on the River. The novelist-screen writer Jake Needham read at the author\ufffds lounge of the Oriental last week. Met the US and Isreali Embassadors. Jim Newport who wrote Break Down Palace was there also. Very nice guy and he will be shooting here in the spring bassed on his Vampire Novel trillogy. There is also a brilliant Viviane Westwood Exhibit at Emporium. We shot up Patpong and our hood on Sukumvit already. Conrad\ufffds Heart of Darkness was never like this. Paul Terry and Bob Nagy and Leighton Hodges are shooting and editing it in HD and will submit to the South by Southwest Film Festival in Austin, Texas (SXSW.com) . Wish us luck. Enjoyed reading your ideas and have used a bunch of the ideas already ( great debauched minds..) and will steal others. Thanks for taking the time. Much appreciated. Leighton would love to meet you someday. Tony and Leighton Hodges || tags: Uncategorized, hdtv, film, movie, Thailand, sex, sxsw, youtube, filmfestival author: magickpapers comments: No Comments"}, {"response": 4, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Aug  6, 2006 (11:10)", "body": "Encouragement (and ideas!) from film producer Michael Sorenson August 6th, 2006 | | Make me happy! Greetings, mates! Miss all of you in BKK, but here is a possible \ufffdmock documentary\ufffd treatment in lieu of my actual presence. Title: \ufffdReal and Holding in the Land of Smiles\ufffd 1. College-aged filmmaker travels to Thailand for 30 days to shoot a documentary video on Buddhism and Asean Culture. Despite volumes of cultural research, the filmmaker did not look into climate conditions, and finds himself arriving in full sweep of the rainy season. It rains torrentially everyday, and as there is only one camera, he shoots life on the streets below from his hotel window in between downpours. 2. Filmmaker encounters Tony and the Expat Round Table during a late breakfast one morning. After the members give the filmmaker permission to turn on his camera, he can almost not contain his excitement. Despite the fact that Asean culture and Buddhism are not the topics of conversation, the exchange is possibly more fascinating to him that the film he came to realize in Thailand. 3. The filmmaker and Tony bond over meals, Chang Beer and a motorcycle taxi ride initiation. During a conversation about traveling at \ufffdThe Star of Light\ufffd bar (if you have to ask\ufffd), Tony asks the filmmaker if he would like to take a \ufffdside trip\ufffd. The filmmaker says yes, completely misunderstanding what Tony has in mind. 4. What follows should be a phantasmagorical journey into the respective \ufffdhearts of darkness and light\ufffd within Bangkok and Pattaya. Go as far as you want in this regard. \ufffdTaste\ufffd and the \ufffdshocking of your audience\ufffd should be no factor of consideration in determining these episodes. It goes without saying that the roadtrip from once city to another should be part of the fun as well! 5. The filmmaker survives the\ufffdwild ride\ufffd, and comes down on the verge of reaching a higher consciousness. He delivers one last entry for the camera, with BBC World News playing in the background. He announces that he is evolving. He says that the United States is over. It will most certainly fail in his short lifetime, and de doesn\ufffdt know if he\ufffdll ever go back. There are too may adventures to be had, too much life to live in other parts of this world where people may not be so afraid of one another. He\ufffds also giving up on traditional filmmaking. \ufffdReal life is the new cinema. Real life is Cinema 2.0.\ufffd He smashes the camera on the floor. Roll credits. Take good care mates, and can\ufffdt wait to see the flick! Best, Michael Sorenson Artistry & Rhythm Filmworks A/S http://www.arflix.dk || tags: Uncategorized, hdtv, film, movie, Thailand, sex, sxsw, youtube, filmfestival author: magickpapers comments: No Comments travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 63, "subject": "couchsurfing", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Wed, Jul 25, 2007 (03:22)", "body": "The social events will be open to anyone. The organizers of The Paris Rendez-Vous are holding this fun event in order to make the existing European and Parisian CouchSurfing community stronger and to bring new members on board. Please invite your friends who are not yet CouchSurfers. Members may also want to attend the meetings and workshops to improve CouchSurfing. Learn how to become a CouchSurfing volunteer and how to be more active in your community. Learn about how to become a CouchSurfing Ambassador. Or just enjoy sharing stories with other active CouchSurfing members. The planned activities include a treasure hunt in the Paris city center, a picnic and two sight-seeing tours of the Parisian Quarters including a tour based on the popular French film \"Le Fabuleux destin d'Am\ufffdlie Poulain\", also know as \"Am\ufffdlie\". You can learn more about The Paris Rendez-Vous festival, join in the discussion, and sign up for events by visiting the gatherings page. from the above website."}, {"response": 2, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Wed, Jul 25, 2007 (03:23)", "body": "The gatherings page: http://www.couchsurfing.com/news.html?id=166"}, {"response": 3, "author": "paul", "date": "Wed, Jul 25, 2007 (03:36)", "body": "There were over 300 couches listed in the Austin, Texas area. Austin is certainly a hotbed for couchsurfers."}, {"response": 4, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Thu, Aug 30, 2007 (16:55)", "body": "the austin couchsurfers are planning a meetup soon. travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 7, "subject": "Singapore", "response_count": 15, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan  5, 1997 (19:14)", "body": "What sports do they have in Singapore?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (08:31)", "body": "The most popular sport is soccer. But other sports like bowling, swimming, water sports, basketball, badmanton and squash are also popular. But the problem here is people are too lazy and tends to stay at home watching tv"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (20:27)", "body": "Do they censor tv very much, what are the most popular tv shows there?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (20:47)", "body": "Oh yeah, tv shows are heavily censored especially those with words like \"fu*k\", \"fu*king\" etc.. and even kissing, love making (not prono), nude and all \"western ideas\" are snipped from the TV screen. So watching TV in Singapore is very boring, you get one-sided reports, tons of ads and trailers and repeats and western movies (like Fatal Attraction) censored until you wouldn't want to watch. Any alternative beside TV? Yes, you can get cable, about 30 channels, but all movies and programmes are heavily censored and selected by the govt. All TV stations and cable companies are owned and controlled by the govt. No satellite dishs are allowed. The only freedom to express our unhappyness is using the Internet. Thanks to the Internet I am not a frog in a small well..."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (20:52)", "body": "No satellite dishes, amazing. What is the story with the \"canings\" we hear about and the fact that there is hardly any crime there, is that because the punishments are so severe. Is American football banned on Singapore? Is it just sex that is censored or is violence also censored?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (22:47)", "body": "American boy M Fay was jailed and canned by the S'pore govt because he vandalised few expensive cars (one said to belongs to wife of a senior judge). Cars in Singapore are the world's most expensive. Anything from $70,000 to 1 million. Satellite dishs were banned (according to Singapore govt) so that the young cannot learn from \"dirty\" programmes from foreign (western) stations. Wrong, crime exists in any city, even in Singapore. Rape, murder, robbery, drug, white-collar crimes are common here but not as common as in NY. Amercial football is not banned here, it is often seen on TV. All sex, prono, \"dirty\" words, violence sences are censored in local TV. Even chewing gums are *banned* If you are naked in your own house and other people can see you, you can be sued. :-)"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan  6, 1997 (23:27)", "body": "Pretty repressive. What are the *best* things about Singapore. What's the \"good\" stuff?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Tue, Jan  7, 1997 (00:18)", "body": "Good stuff? Can't think of any :-) Maybe the street is clean, no union on strike so factory, bus, metro and all government services are guaranteed to operate, most things run as pre-programmed and good food. Since Singapore is so small, people are going overseas for weekend holidays."}, {"response": 9, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (22:57)", "body": "Essentially when residing in Singapore, there may be more restrictions imposed on the socierty at large , but I think the overall purpose would also be to benefit the same society. Perhaps, for a newcomer or person from a' free-er' society, Singapore must appear like a penalty zone. But having lived there for 18 years and then abroard for almost 8 years, I can still relate to the need for certain restrictions necessary for the smooth functioning of a country. Afterall, the result for Singaporeans after breaking away from Malaysia (only about 31 yrs later) is obvious : economic prosperity, excellent educational system affordable to all, more than affordable health care, an employer/employee funded Provident fund to take care of later needs, well laid-out roads and freeways and hardly a traffic problem worth mentioning consisting the population and island size. A definite selling point - the streets are safe for minors : guns, drugs and pornography is not something a Singaporean person/parent would have t lose sleep over."}, {"response": 10, "author": "Serena", "date": "Tue, Feb 25, 1997 (22:57)", "body": "Essentially when residing in Singapore, there may be more restrictions imposed on the socierty at large , but I think the overall purpose would also be to benefit the same society. Perhaps, for a newcomer or person from a' free-er' society, Singapore must appear like a penalty zone. But having lived there for 18 years and then abroard for almost 8 years, I can still relate to the need for certain restrictions necessary for the smooth functioning of a country. Afterall, the result for Singaporeans after breaking away from Malaysia (only about 31 yrs later) is obvious : economic prosperity, excellent educational system affordable to all, more than affordable health care, an employer/employee funded Provident fund to take care of later needs, well laid-out roads and freeways and hardly a traffic problem worth mentioning consisting the population and island size. A definite selling point - the streets are safe for minors : guns, drugs and pornography is not something a Singaporean person/parent would have t lose sleep over."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jun  6, 1997 (10:53)", "body": "April 7 - 1997 Is Intellectual Capital the New Wealth or the Latest Consulting Wank? Singapore Sting By Richard Rapaport Our man witnesses a rare Far East software piracy bust. OMINOUS-LOOKING ARMED MEN are swarming over his retail store, but for a man whose world has just come crashing in on him, Chng (pronounced \"Ching\") Teck Bin seems unnaturally composed. Chng is the proprietor of P&V Computer PTE, a dingy fifth-floor electronics store nestled among tailor shops and beauty parlors in the Bukit Timah district of Singapore. Chng stands mutely in the dim, box-lined corridor outside his shop while five young policemen from the Intellectual Property Rights unit of the Singapore police chase out his schoolboy techie customers and begin tearing through cabinets, boxes, and files that fill the store. The leader of the squad, a big man in jeans and T-shirt, informs Chng that his shop is the subject of a warrant for software piracy. Acting on information from a private security adviser, the intellectual property cops are trying to find and confiscate pirated versions of popular personal computer software programs. Throughout Asia, in shops such as this, mass-produced CD-ROMs filled with purloined software sell for a fraction of the legitimate market price. With as many as 30 programs crammed onto the 644-megabyte disksincluding such hits as Adobe Photoshop, After Dark, AutoCAD, Claris Works 4.0, CorelDraw, Netscape Navigator, Windows 95, Microsoft Office, Norton Utilities, and on and on, the total legal market value of the programs on one CD-ROM can reach into the high tens of thousands of dollars. But because small, clandestine operators can now stamp out CDs easily and cheaply, disks can be produced for as little as a dollar and sold for between $7 and $25, depending on the buyer's ability to bargain. Costs are low, needless to say, because pirates have no R&D or third-party software licensing costs to cover. This is, after all, one of the great things about being a pirate. \"Chng's whispered phone call is clearly a coded message to his suppliers that a raid is under way. Several other shops have hastily closed.\" Buyer Be Wired: An undercover operative working for Microsoft hides a microphone and tape recorder before entering a legitimate CD-ROM plant to try making a deal for unlicensed copies of popular software. The fabricators took the bait and lost a Microsoft contract. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Fall Guy MR. CHNG, HOWEVER, is not a pirate, just a hapless middleman. As the raid progresses, he asks if he can use his telephone; so far he has been cooperative, even obsequious, and the cop in charge tells him to go ahead. \"I'm going to call the owner,\" he tells the detective in fractured English. \"He asks me to take over temporarily.\" \"The owners of the shops never seem to be around for the raids,\" a voice with a decidedly American accent replies sarcastically. It belongs to Christopher Austin, a young attorney currently hunched over one of Chng's ledgers. Austin is working both for the Business Software Alliance, a Washington-based trade organization that deals with software piracy, and for Microsoft. Microsoft is clearly the biggest loser to a regionwide criminal enterprise that sells far more illegal copies of its popular programs in Asia than Microsoft itself. Austin roves Asia tracking down software pirates. He has become famous throughout the more notorious shopping arcades of Asia as the man most likely to ruin the day of pirates who run the illicit but wide-open market in illegal software. Because of the work of Austin and others, software pirates have been forced to add several sophisticated new twists to their nefarious ways. Rather than keep a large stock of CD-ROMs on hand that authorities can confiscate, for instance, shop owners will page their suppliers, who dispatch runners with the requested disks. Foreign customers in a pirate software shop can now expect to hear the suspicious question, \"Are you from Microsoft?\" Such changes in the business have made Austin a figure of note here, a man with the task of trying to convince frugal Asians they should pay full freight for programs readily available for pennies on the dollar. The job is as difficult as it is important. Recent Software Publishers Association and Business Software Alliance statistics show that Singapore, with an estimated 53% piracy rate, still has a long way to go. Yet it is doing far better than its neighbors Malaysia, with a piracy rate of 77%, Thailand at 82%, the Philippines at 91%, China at 96%, and Indonesia at a staggering 98% use of illegal software. Even with the lowest piracy rate in Asia, Singapore has become a pet project of the pirate-hunters. With its squeaky-clean reputation, its position as the most computer-literate society in the area, and a growing indigenous software industry, Singapore is a key battleground in the struggle for the hearts and minds of Asian"}, {"response": 12, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Mon, Jun  9, 1997 (08:54)", "body": "Cool! Sadly the story was somewhat true... And the police and SBA and Micro$oft are acting very fast, they just crashed few pirated CD-ROM sellers last week..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jun  9, 1997 (12:52)", "body": "Is this happending in nearby countries to Singapore as well, Ted?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "tedchong", "date": "Mon, Jun  9, 1997 (19:15)", "body": "Actually Singapore has one of the less software crime country in Asia as compared to other countries. China, Thailand, Vietnam are consider the most active. Here the police and SBA (Software Business Allience) are very effective and quick, you sell illegal software, you get caugth alomost the next day. But still people want to earn quick bucks..."}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 11, 1997 (23:01)", "body": "Overheard from Roger Karraker today: \" I don't really know what Singapore is building these days. Much gnashing of teeth over the wage and price differences betwween Singapore and the short trip across the causeway to Malaysia. We were repeatedly told that when exiting Singapore the customs guards checked to make sure that gas tanks were something like 3/4 full, to prevent residents from going to Malaysia for cheap gas. \" travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 8, "subject": "golf travel", "response_count": 5, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 11, 1997 (20:41)", "body": "I've heard that there's a course in Houston that has replicas of many famous golf course holes around the world near Houston. Is this place still going? The best golf course I've experienced around Austin is \"River Place\". It's a tough course but a lot of fun to play. And of course, Austin hosts the annual \"Legends of Golf\" at the Onion Creek Country Club. My personal favorite is the little known Bastrop Golf Course, it's a very easy nine hole course in a beautiful setting. And you don't lose very many balls because of the pine needle terrain in the woods."}, {"response": 2, "author": "mqube", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (09:59)", "body": "My \"home town\", Biloxi, MS used to claim to have more golf courses per capita than any place in the US. Just off hand I can think of six courses within 5 min. of my parents' place. lots of snowbirds fly in during the winter to play on Mississippi's \"Golden Gulf Coast\". Of course, now that Biloxi has become the \"Las Vegas\" of the south they may be converting some of those courses into parking lots for the Casinos. BTW, golf is a silly game."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (12:32)", "body": "I just updated http://www.golftravel.net and you can see a gorgeous shot of Austin's Barton Creek Country Club."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 12, 1997 (13:01)", "body": "New! A place to \"talk tiger\": http://www.spring.com/yapp-bin/public/read/sports/31"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (07:53)", "body": "What kinds of boats are popular? And how rough is the water around Curacao? travel conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 9, "subject": "Finland, Finland, Finland", "response_count": 35, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "Compare Norway, Sweden, Iceland and Finland in terms of size, poulation, climate, and cultures. Sounds like a final exam question, doesn't that mixu? And what is internet usage like in these differnt countries?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (09:37)", "body": "This will take a while, but be patient... (Shuffling through maps and stats) You'll get it by the end of this week..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 27, 1997 (19:54)", "body": "Thanks. Something to look forward to, I'll stay tuned. I have other questions but these are obviously keeping you busy for now."}, {"response": 4, "author": "Mixu", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (04:31)", "body": "OK, 1st some statistics about Finland (end of 1995) (and the others): Pop: 5 117 000 (end of 1995) - Sweden 8,8 million - Norway 4,3 million - Iceland 0,3 million Of which Finnish-speaking 92,92% Swedish-speaking 5,76% Russian-speaking 0,31% Lapp-speking 0,03% And Lutheran 85,80% Orthodox 1,10% Other 1,00% Non-Religious 12,10% And (ages 15-74): Working 53,90% Pensioners 13,80% Unemployed 11,20% Students 10,10% Disabled 6,90% Working at Home 2,80% Unemployment in Sweden 9,8% (1994) Norway 5,4% (1994) Iceland 12,1% (1994) (Finland 1994: 18,2%) Land Area: 338 145 square km (69% forest, 10% water, 8% cultivated) - Sweden 450 000 sq km - Norway 324 000 sq km - Iceland 103 000 sq km National Borders: 1269 km (Russia), 727 km (Norway), 586 km (Sweden) Life expectancy: 76 years - Sweden 78 years - Norway 77 years - Iceland 78 years GNP/capita (US$) (1994): 18 850 - Sweden 23 630 - Norway 26 480 - Iceland 24 590 Average Temperature: Lowest - 2 degrees centigrade (Jan and Feb) (Helsinki) Highest +17 degrees centigrade (June) (Lappland) Lowest -17 degrees centigrade (December) Highest +13 degrees centigrade (June) This is the beginning - I'll handle the cultural things next week. (But as you see, the changes in temperature are quite extreme, especially in the north. Fortunately the warm current of Golf and the numerous lakes (more than 180 000) warm us up a little bit...)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 30, 1997 (08:01)", "body": "Thanks, what interesting facts. Norwegians seem to have more folks working percentagewise and the other countries have high unemployment. The cultural discussion will provoke some more questions, I'm sure."}, {"response": 6, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Mar 11, 1999 (11:46)", "body": "Oh, hi Mixu! And the Finnish are the people with the most widely-spread web access! Don't remember where I read that... And they know how to built good phones, especially mobile phones (see, Terry, they didn't feel like laying lotsa copper through the woods and lakes, and have lots of work with that, so they simply do it a different way! This always impressed me so much.). And they make very good vodka, and they like to drink it. There are lots of good bands like 22Pistepirkko, Laika & The Astronauts, etc., not only the Leningrad Cowboys. If a young man there is very bored, he makes a movie about it. If a younger brothers older brother made a movie, the younger brother has to make one, too - then he moves to Greece. The Finnish are one of the few european people about whom I've never heard that they hate Germans. But then, I didn't hear it all yet. Finnish is not related to any european language. Finnish is related to Hungarian (which is not related to any european language...). Tango is big in Finland (superstar #12 has a great article on that), but it's not that sweaty-excited latin-thing, it's more of a melancholic bluesy thing with sausages, coffee and beer. There are several hundred thousand lakes. There are also moskitos as you wouldn't believe. In Finland you get the best insect-repellants in the world. Mixu, what clich\ufffd did I omit?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Mar 11, 1999 (13:21)", "body": "Cool :-) My Finnish friend, whom I lived with last year, is getting married this summer and I'm tripping over to Finland to watch him tie the knot!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Mar 11, 1999 (14:38)", "body": "Ho! Kood funn, Mikka!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Mar 11, 1999 (14:43)", "body": "Ho! Kood funn, Mikka! But I've got a mistake in my post above: Please note that the extraordinary finnish surf band is NOT called Laika & The Astronauts, I'm sorry, but Laika & The COSMONAUTS."}, {"response": 10, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Mar 18, 1999 (12:00)", "body": "Oh, hey, look what I just found - there's an article on finnish tango in this mag here! (*smirk*) It's called superstar, and even has it's own topic here on the Spring: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/music/59 . Wow, that's pretty neat!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Mar 22, 1999 (22:29)", "body": "***shameless plug***"}, {"response": 12, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, Mar 24, 1999 (14:13)", "body": "(Oh, come on - gimme a break. If you had had my bills, you'd do the same. Anyway, can I get you interested in this great mag I got here? I can make you an special offer - you'd really love it, and it's done by really cool people, blahblahblah) ;=}"}, {"response": 13, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Mar 24, 1999 (14:52)", "body": ":-)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Mar 25, 1999 (11:56)", "body": ";=} , too!"}, {"response": 15, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Mar 31, 1999 (09:54)", "body": "Anyone planning any Finnish travel?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, Mar 31, 1999 (10:04)", "body": "There's a new movie out by finnish director Aki Kaurism\ufffdki, first in quite a while. Got mixed reviews, too. The guy who wrote the Finn-Tango article in our mag brings a tango band over in April, Im' looking forward to that (and will post dates in the superstar topic as soon as I find them again). In my area, the dates are April 29th, Marburg at the KFZ, and April 30th, Frankfurt at the Ostclub on Hanauer Landstra\ufffde."}, {"response": 17, "author": "Elena", "date": "Wed, Mar 31, 1999 (11:34)", "body": "Hi, I saw AK\ufffds movie only recently. I watched it here in the tiny cinema of my home town where the director lives too...and the film was made with the local theatre people. The film is somethin else, go see it if you\ufffdre tired with typical movies."}, {"response": 18, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Wed, Mar 31, 1999 (11:41)", "body": "Did you like it? I like many of his movies. I thought Kaurism\ufffdki had moved to Greece permanently?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "Elena", "date": "Wed, Mar 31, 1999 (11:52)", "body": "Well, he was here last Thursdsay, at the bus station to buy something from a kiosk. The movie then...Alexander, did you say you saw it? I thought it was pretty good at times but as a whole it probably isn\ufffdt the best one of his. I was a bit surprised, I expected more I guess but on the other hand, the movie was very effective, the way that silent b/w films can be."}, {"response": 20, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Apr  1, 1999 (04:46)", "body": "No, but I've seen some mixed reviews; doesn't count, I guess. Next time you see him, ask him if he'd like to contribute to a magazine put together by a guy you know! ;=} But! I will see the Lasse Santagangas Ensemble, when they tour Germany and Switzerland! Finnish Tango! Full tourdates: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/music/53.17"}, {"response": 21, "author": "Elena", "date": "Thu, Apr  1, 1999 (10:29)", "body": "Alexander, what\ufffds that magazine? ......anyway, you probably know that AK doesn\ufffdt give much interviews except for special occasions like the Berlinale (and there were some problems too, I hear!) Have you ever heard the music of Lasse Santakankaan yhtye? (Can you dance too?!) wonder if many Finnish tango bands actually tour Europe these days, I\ufffdd expect you Germans to have enough tango bands of your own to satisfy the biggest demand."}, {"response": 22, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Apr  4, 1999 (22:11)", "body": "That's all Alexander is talking about these days in the music conference...check it out, Elena!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (04:49)", "body": "*Blush* Ahem, yes, but I really look forward to it, too! And might go and see it twice, too, too! Elena, there is a very nice compilation of Finnish tango out on the Munich label Trikont - the man who compiled it also wrote the article for superstar and organizes the band's tour. I like the two pieces of that band on the CD, so I'm really thrilled. Do you know that band? I've never heard of any Finnish tango-act touring around here (would love to hear Eino Gr\ufffdn, e.g.). If anybody in Germany does Tango, it's the hot spicy latin thing, \"a sure sign of relations growing cold\", as one Finnish tango coach has been quoted recently. So, no luck there (though we used to have great acts till the early thirties). On superstar, read more in the superstar topic in the music or journalism conferences. Autumn, thank you for your patience. ;=}"}, {"response": 24, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Apr 30, 1999 (13:49)", "body": "I'll go and see Lasse Santakankaan Yhtye play Frankfurt's Ostklub tonight! Drive there now - byeeeee! Wait, this at last - wished Elena were there and would meet me and tell me more about finnish tango... And maybe I'd get to meet Mixu... No, I don't dance. I'm a stiff German, remember? (Though I'm not into physics...) Bye! Gotta catch my riiiiideeeee eee ee ee e ee e e e e e"}, {"response": 25, "author": "Elena", "date": "Fri, Apr 30, 1999 (15:38)", "body": "I\ufffdm eagerly waiting to hear about your tango experience, Alexander. Please tell us everything about it as soon as possible. ......but honestly, you have to *dance* to really know what tango\ufffds about!!"}, {"response": 26, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, May  1, 1999 (03:57)", "body": "It was great fun, though the band was unhappy. More later."}, {"response": 27, "author": "Elena", "date": "Mon, May  3, 1999 (04:47)", "body": "UNHAPPY???!! Whatever is your meaning?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, May  3, 1999 (08:21)", "body": "They were homesick, the club's PA was bad (blew the fuse once, so they had to take a break till the thing cooled down), and they clubs and crowd were not what they expected. There wasn't any dancing going on while they played. In the break, some girls and a couple danced nicely, but when they started again, the dancers stopped to watch the band. For me, it was a great experience, and I truly hope they come on tour again, just in nicer clubs, and some people would dance."}, {"response": 29, "author": "Elena", "date": "Mon, May  3, 1999 (16:58)", "body": "Aw, sounds terrible! Playing for a audience that doesn\ufffdt dance is not what a tango band is for. They must\ufffdve felt absolutely strange, and probably unsuccessful too, not being able to make people feel like dancing.....I hope they still managed to play OK! Wonder why the tour was in clubs like that anyway. \"Stopped to watch\"....augh! Lemme know next time they hit Germany Alexander and I\ufffdll come over to MAKE you dance, dammit :-)"}, {"response": 30, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, May  4, 1999 (08:15)", "body": "Such harsh words from so kind a person - tz tz tz... Seems like the clubs they played were all really great rock clubs, like underground-style stuff with cool scenes. Many people came for the obvious novelty effect. The concert was great, and we all loved what we got. And it was a lot they gave, too..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, May 10, 1999 (05:34)", "body": "Anyway, Elena, since Mixu doesn't show up here at all to \"to answer any of my questions\", and since you've been so friendly to me - tell me more about your area, please!"}, {"response": 32, "author": "Elena", "date": "Mon, May 10, 1999 (11:28)", "body": "Mixu has obviously had enough of Spring, I see he planned to handle the Finnish cultural things next week in 1997! Hope everything\ufffds OK. ......what exactly do you want to know, Alexander? Ever been over here? The Finnish are one of the few european people about whom I've never heard that they hate Germans Ha,ha! Are you that hatable? Now I have heard about the horrific German orderliness and stinginess, general vulgarity of manners etc. but naturally that goes for Finns too! :-))) Maybe that\ufffds why there seems to exist a traditional German-friendly attitude in Finland. Seriously, I\ufffdve been in Deutschland a couple of times and my experience is that Germans are amazingly friendly people and my being a Finn seemed to have something to do with it. Not once but twice did they kindly save me from a natural catastrophe or other."}, {"response": 33, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, May 11, 1999 (08:01)", "body": "The Germans are basically a sorry bunch. All we want is love and respect - even if we have to start wars to get it. How pathethic. But that's why many people in neighbouring nations don't really like Germans in general (especially the French, the Dutch, some Danish, the Serbians,...). The only people who really like us are those that were on our side in some stupid war - the Turkish (WWI), the Croatians, the Italians and the Finnish, etc. For Germans, Finnland has something weird and romantic about it. That's clich\ufffds, of course (and Kaurism\ufffdkis movies do nothing to prove us wrong). Same with us here - concerning Germans, there are really many prejudices (even at the Spring, I s'ppose). Which of these prejudices are founded on facts depends on the region you're in - \"Germany\" only exists since 1870, and we have VERY different tribes here (all of which are considered rude by any other group). There are some bands from Finnland known here - Aaviko, Laika and the Astronauts, The Leningrad Cowboys, The 69 Eyes, El\ufffdkel\ufffdiset. Also, movie maker-brothers Kaurism\ufffdki, Mika and Aki. We've discovered your tango, and we like your vodka. Also, all Finnish men here in Germany (very few) work hard and drink much; all Finnish women in Germany (more than you'd guess) are exceptionally pretty and have lots of wit. They are all homesick. What of this is typical? What else happens in Finnland? What do you do for entertainment?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "Elena", "date": "Tue, May 11, 1999 (13:21)", "body": "Oh, I don\ufffdt think it\ufffds only the stupid war that made us friends, Finns liked Germans before the world wars too. There must be some good reason for this, maybe it\ufffds some sort of hidden (or imaginary!) cultural familiarity. And why do Germans like Kaurism\u00e4ki movies more than any other bunch in Europe, that\ufffds a mystery! Why do YOU like them, Alexander, can you tell me, and which one especially? For Germans, Finnland has something weird and romantic about it. all Finnish women in Germany----are exceptionally pretty I\ufffdm beginning to understand without your answer that you have never visited here. The truth is.......we *are* weird and romantic. But......(looking into a mirror with a painful blush) exceptionally pretty?! :-D Maybe I should move to Germany if that\ufffds the trick."}, {"response": 35, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  3, 1999 (07:06)", "body": "One thing I find really strange about the Germans is how impressionable, and how easy they are to get into hypes and hysteria. Last year there was a Modern Talking revival concert here in Zurich, which was just fantastic. But at one point it gave me the chills when Dieter Bohlen shouted: 'Wollt ihr die Hits??? Wollt ihr die grosse Hits?!!' Of course the (half-dead) Swiss didn't quite know how to respond to this. Neither did I, in fact. And Bohlen said half dissappointedly that that line normally gets the crowd into a frenzy. I suddenly had a vision in my mind of someone shouting, 'Wollt ihr den Krieg?? Wollt ihr den grossen Krieg??', and the German Volk going nuts over it. That was a little weird. Of course there is nothing bad about Modern Talking - except for their music, perhaps! travel conference Main Menu"}]}]}