{"conf": "vc", "generated_at": "2026-04-26T08:00:02.954878Z", "threads": [{"num": 1, "subject": "intros", "response_count": 99, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Sep 24, 1997 (11:54)", "body": "Just curious as to what vc was. The things running through my mind... Vanderbilt Collection, Viet Cong... some term I was completely unfamiliar with."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 24, 1997 (19:36)", "body": "Yep, it's a Viet Cong discussion group, Stace! *not* Guess again!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Sep 25, 1997 (09:41)", "body": "easy now. just a bit unfamiliar with all the linge"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 25, 1997 (18:57)", "body": "OK, was I getting too rought with you? Sorry about that. vc=virtual community"}, {"response": 5, "author": "donnal", "date": "Sun, Sep 28, 1997 (13:42)", "body": "Stacey, I've been dying to find someone here to discuss something (anything) besides Bronte and drooling. What are your interests? :-)"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep 28, 1997 (20:46)", "body": "I'm sure Stacey will talk to you, she has returned after an absence due to the loss of her net access. I'm glad she's back. Trying to get more folks to jump in here!"}, {"response": 7, "author": "donnal", "date": "Mon, Sep 29, 1997 (05:17)", "body": ":-)"}, {"response": 8, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Sep 29, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "Yea!! More people! Hello Donnal... Here's the condensed synapsis of me (ie: a very short version): Recently tansplanted to Colorado from Austin. Elementary special education teacher. Enjoying life in the shadow of the Rocky Mountains esp. mountain biking (steeper climbs/faster downhills) and rollerbalding (miles and miles of paved trails). I also enjoy running, cooking, talking to new people, drinking a good beer and reading (although I'm not much of a Bronte fan). Fortunately (for us both) I'm not much of a drooler. There are those times, however, when I'm napping... a little bit out of the corner of my mouth onto my pillow... Glad you're here, let me know what you'd like to chat about! Morning Paul... You should catch a glimpse of the Colorado sunset sometime, it just might make you a bit jealous!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "donnal", "date": "Mon, Sep 29, 1997 (09:51)", "body": "Heh. Sunset or not, I'm more than a bit jealous. I love the Rockies, but don't get out there very often. I live just outside of Little Rock and enjoy hiking, camping, mountain biking. Have not taken up rollerblading, but have thought about it. Given the opportunity, I usually gravitate toward discussions of *ideas* and the more abstract, the better. OTOH you could possibly entice me to tell you about climbing Long's Peak (Rocky Mtn Ntl Park) with my son, camping at Mirror Lake near Tin Cup Pass, and so forth."}, {"response": 10, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Sep 30, 1997 (09:08)", "body": "Long's Peak! I'm impressed! We just started the Fourteener climbing and so far we've done, Gray's, Tory's, Democrat, Lincoln and Bross. We have done t(excuse me) Long's Peak drive by but have chosen to wait until next summer to do it, already snowing up there again! Abstract ideas, huh? Midweek, all my ideas seem abstract!"}, {"response": 11, "author": "donnal", "date": "Tue, Sep 30, 1997 (15:02)", "body": "Sigh. Here at home, my mountain is a One-er. About 1025 ft with the base somewhere around 300-350 ft. When my work schedule is not too heavy I usually climb it every evening."}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep 30, 1997 (20:33)", "body": "I forget, what area of the country are you located, donnal?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "donnal", "date": "Wed, Oct  1, 1997 (09:15)", "body": "At the very east edge of the Ouchita range and south of the Ozarks. (Little Rock)"}, {"response": 14, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Oct  1, 1997 (11:54)", "body": "Great concentration of oxygen in them parts! I'm going for a skate this afternoon ... we'll start at 5300 ft because we have no choice! Work schedule... what do you do, donnal?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "donnal", "date": "Thu, Oct  2, 1997 (17:01)", "body": "Some friends from Kansas City were visiting once and they climbed Pinnacle Mtn with us. We were moving right along, and one of them said, \"Boy, this altitude really gets to you, doesn't it?\" I replied, \"I hate to say it, we're lower here than in your home in Kansas City.\" Yep, LOT's of oxygen. What do I do? Hmmm. Well, like you, I am an educator, except that all of my students are adults. Some of my teaching is didactic, but most is 'on the job training' so to speak. I'm also involved in a research project looking at the use of computers in education, in decision-making and in documenting what I do the rest of the time. Oh, yeah. I also take care of little babies that require intensive care. (Long way of saying that I am a neonatologist at an academic hospital.)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Oct  3, 1997 (09:32)", "body": "Thanks for the layman's explanation! I love teaching but I am currently snooping around for a different career path. I've learned that inefficiency, beauacracy and incongruent philosophies make me a very frustrated person. The school district is the epitome of a system that is constantly tripping over itself in contradictions. I feel like administration and frequently the teachers themselves have lost sight of their mission and children no longer come first. I become more agitated daily. I've listed all the \"wants\" in a future position and all the definite \"don't wants\" and k=now I'm looking for things that fit the bill."}, {"response": 17, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Oct 10, 1997 (06:04)", "body": "Hi, everyone, I'll try and jump in here whenver I can, and hope that I'm not interrupting. WER"}, {"response": 18, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Oct 10, 1997 (10:43)", "body": "if you've got good vibes for the special ed teacher who wants a career change, jump away!"}, {"response": 19, "author": "mcblob", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (00:20)", "body": "I have been trying to find places that offer voice/text chat rooms and so far I have only been able to come up with www.mplayer.com and ON LIVE TRAVELER. I have not been able to get the ON LIVE TALKER yet because the server is down. So I will check that out if it ever comes back up. If anyone has any other points of interest I sure would like to know where they are."}, {"response": 20, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (00:35)", "body": "I could use a cook, stacey ! WER"}, {"response": 21, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (00:58)", "body": "mcblob, you may want to check out Forrest's site at http://www.stroud.com and our related conferences, we have quite a few reviews of voice on the net apps. Wow, a cookin' gig for Stacey."}, {"response": 22, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "Are you anywhere near Denver, WER? The job's frustrating but boy, do I love the scenery!"}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct 13, 1997 (16:52)", "body": "WER is in Austin. He's a gourmet cook."}, {"response": 24, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (00:24)", "body": "Thanks for the complement! (And as far as I know you ain't never et my cookin') WER"}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (13:39)", "body": "But I've heard the stories."}, {"response": 26, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (23:01)", "body": "Beautiful response! And thanks again, WER"}, {"response": 27, "author": "americ", "date": "Tue, Nov  4, 1997 (09:33)", "body": "Well, here I am. I learned about The Spring from via The WELL's conference on Virtual Communities. I have been a lifelong philosopher. Even taught philosophy at San Francisco State University for a while. Socrates was my model of a great teacher: using dialogue to get to the meat of life. So it is quite a natural thing for me to find myself in the prime media of dialogue in the world -- virtual communities. I could say a lot more more. But I don't like to fill up screens with text. I wait."}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov  4, 1997 (11:32)", "body": "Welcome Americ, have you done the tour of conferences yet. Any thoughts on how we could make your entry easier or more interesting?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "americ", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (12:02)", "body": "I am kind of a random explorer. Does html work in this environment. bold Does this system recognize web links?"}, {"response": 30, "author": "americ", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (12:04)", "body": "Can I go to http://www.well.com/~americ or to GoldWarp ?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "americ", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (12:07)", "body": "Or, just go to www.barra.com"}, {"response": 32, "author": "americ", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (12:07)", "body": "I am happy!"}, {"response": 33, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (14:02)", "body": "The easiest way for links is to put the whole address down with the http:// just like you did. Colors also work, as does font sizes. I've also seen people link in images. Haven't tried much else myself. WER"}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov  5, 1997 (14:49)", "body": "Images require brackets img src=\" http://www.spring.com/~terry/cap.jpg \" like the above."}, {"response": 35, "author": "americ", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (17:47)", "body": ""}, {"response": 36, "author": "americ", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (18:23)", "body": "Myself:"}, {"response": 37, "author": "gud", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (21:23)", "body": "Hey, nice picture Americ. What's up everybody? My name is Brian Castelli and I am 22 years old. I am a fifth year senior at the University of Michigan. I am currently taking a Communications class in which we are discussing vc's (I just read that article in Wired on \"The Well\"), and it's some interesting stuff. I think they are a great forum for unbiased (given and recieved) ideas, in the fact that we are represented by our minds and nothing else. You know, like that MCI commercial...connecting Intelect. Cheesey cause it's a commercial, but fascinating in the break down of race and gender barriers and all stereotypes of that sort. Just minds communicating ideas and nothing else! Whatd' ya think?"}, {"response": 38, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov  7, 1997 (23:39)", "body": "How'd you hear about the Spring? In the class? I'd be interested in hearing more about this class and what they're covering."}, {"response": 39, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Nov  8, 1997 (00:57)", "body": "I'll be listening, too, so talk away. WER"}, {"response": 40, "author": "gud", "date": "Sat, Nov  8, 1997 (20:39)", "body": "The class is title Communications 464, Communication Processes and Technologies. It's goal is to help us gain some perspective on the influences that our rapid transition to the Digital Age will have on almost every aspect of society. We also discuss what effects these new technologies are likely to have on the human condition: on sense of identity as individuals, on how we form and regulate our communities (which is where vc's come in) and how our nation and world function politically, socially, econom cally, and so on. It's extermely interesting, and I believe that it's a great idea to get America's youth in-tune with the impact that this new medium is going to have on us, not just in this country but globally as well."}, {"response": 41, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov  8, 1997 (21:06)", "body": "Which online communities have you discussed in your class?"}, {"response": 42, "author": "gud", "date": "Sat, Nov  8, 1997 (21:15)", "body": "We were required to read \"The Well\" from the May edition of Wired Magazine. So we've talked about that one extensively, and we have a link to Howard Rheingold's Links to virtual Worlds, on the class Web site. That page has a link to Spring, ad that's how I came across you guys. I've never participated in an online community before, and I wanted to check it out and see what it was all about. How would you define the community you have set up here? Is there a lot of history behind Spring?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (01:03)", "body": "There's quite a bit, and I've begun to expound it some in a topic in the Austin conference. History that is. We've been through 3 years now and three versions of conferencing software: springtalk, caucus and now the yapp software."}, {"response": 44, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (01:07)", "body": "How would we define this? That's tough. We seem to be inventing ourselves as we go along. I can pin a definition that will stick, as the folks here will move this whatever direction they want. I guess I would define this as a flexible infrastructure for discussions and collaboration. The 'community' tag could be debated. I would hope that we evolve in that direction. I feel a definite sense of community with some of the folks here now and I try to get the community of folks I know in Austin to join here also."}, {"response": 45, "author": "americ", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (18:44)", "body": "Brian -- Sounds like your class was similiar to one that I thought at Golden Gate University titled \"BeingWired, Being\". We had 8 students. We started out being half face-to-face and half online. By the end we were most online (using WELL Engaged software). We created about 300 pages of online text discussions. One of the most rewarding experiences of my teaching life. And, yes, everyone was required to read WIRED which include the article regarding The WELL. You can find some of the notes for the class at http://internet.ggu.edu/~aazevedo/beingwired ."}, {"response": 46, "author": "gud", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (19:08)", "body": "Thanks Americ, I'll check it out! I think that the off-line communication probably led to a richer on-line community. Was this true? Terry, I think that the Spring is well on its way to becoming a community. What about its evolution leads you to believe that its not already? Does it differ from the WELL in the fact that its not as tightly knit? What steps do you plan on taking to guide it?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "gud", "date": "Sun, Nov  9, 1997 (19:55)", "body": "Wow Americ! I dig the Web Site (especially the orange background)! The class you tought seems similar, but we aren't required to be on-line. I think that the way you went about it is a much better approach. It would seem to get the students much more in touch with the medium you were discussing. I like the idea of cyberclass! You definitely took it to the next level, with your discussions on-line. I wish that our professor would have had some of the same ideas."}, {"response": 48, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (06:53)", "body": "I like the idea of a class being taught on-line -- excitement!!"}, {"response": 49, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (12:49)", "body": "sounds like a lot of initiative needed -- I like to learn by osmosis."}, {"response": 50, "author": "gud", "date": "Thu, Nov 13, 1997 (23:36)", "body": "It wouldn't really be that tough, you just need the right tools. Besides, osmosis never works for me!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Nov 14, 1997 (10:09)", "body": "Well, beyond the tools... the hardest part for me would be managing my time effectively enough to make the class a priority. I work better under peer pressure *smile*"}, {"response": 53, "author": "stacey", "date": "Fri, Nov 14, 1997 (12:10)", "body": "(LOL) I'm sure you could find a way to redirect it!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "americ", "date": "Sun, Nov 16, 1997 (12:31)", "body": "Thanks for your interest in the being \"BeingWired, BeingHuman\" class. I think I will open up a topic regarding this within the conference here in The Spring. I am even link some of my own student here into The Spring."}, {"response": 56, "author": "americ", "date": "Sun, Nov 16, 1997 (12:35)", "body": "Just above I was saying that I will open a BeingWired, BeingHuman topic in the \"Philosophy\" conference. (I put \"<\" brackets around the word but everything disappeared from the post.)"}, {"response": 57, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Nov 16, 1997 (22:45)", "body": "Looking forward to seeing some of your students and other compatriots make the journey to Spring someday!"}, {"response": 58, "author": "stacey", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (10:16)", "body": "Hope you're still in that newly groovy state -- even if it is a temporary farce. Half our battles are a state of mind."}, {"response": 59, "author": "americ", "date": "Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (12:50)", "body": "Yep! Half the battle are a state of mind. Sometimes, the best question is just to ask: \"What's my state, now?\" May not be that groovy, but at least it raises us to _self-knowledge_."}, {"response": 60, "author": "stacey", "date": "Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (11:27)", "body": "And probably the most frightening answer to that question is \"I don't know.\" It means you've truly lost touch with yourself or the ability to listen to your inner workings."}, {"response": 61, "author": "americ", "date": "Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (20:24)", "body": "Well...perhaps just to pay attention to the mystery of one's state of mind is an answer. Mostly, there are no words to discribe any state of mind. Words are so approximate. If I were a poet, I might be more optimistic about words. But the fail me all too often."}, {"response": 62, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (11:23)", "body": "In certain situations or on a regular basis, IYO?"}, {"response": 63, "author": "americ", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (12:20)", "body": "What does IYO stand for?"}, {"response": 64, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (12:26)", "body": "In Your Opinion?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "americ", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (15:40)", "body": "Well...there....your words (IYO) and mine...did fail for a moment but we were able to recover with each others help this is so much better than reading books where we don't get to ask the author for a re-write on the spot!"}, {"response": 67, "author": "SimonT", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (16:05)", "body": "Hi I'm Simon from Brighton UK. We are interested in setting up a conference facility for Brighton UK, not disimilar to this. One of the first questions I'd like to ask is \"what software is generally the best?\". We have looked at Hylafax and also COW (Conferencing on the Web) which seems quite good and has the added benefit that it's free. Motet doesn't seem (in the few seconds I had to look at it) to offer any more. Can anyone here recommend any good conferencing software? The software used here seems OK but might have some bugs (ie I seem to be logged on 3 times and the guy I'm with doesn't seem to be logged on at all). Anyway, I'll drop in and see what'sgoing on tomorrow. Till then..... goodnight!"}, {"response": 68, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  4, 1997 (21:06)", "body": "Why don't you invite your folks to use the Spring for a while as an incubator, and that way you can see Yapp conferencing software in action and get things moving in the here and now."}, {"response": 69, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Dec  5, 1997 (14:56)", "body": "Well, the problem is that we more than likely will not be using Yapp software. Therefore, if we invite a group of people here, and then subsequently want to change software on them, that wouldn't be much fun. Our enterprise is significantly different from the Spring, in that there will be a (nominal) charge for usage, and we will be predominantly based in the Brighton area."}, {"response": 70, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (07:58)", "body": "You are welcome to use the Spring servers to create a prototype. We'll even build a machine for you."}, {"response": 71, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (09:11)", "body": "The hardware isn't in fact the problem! Simon Turner is part of Virtual Brighton, who have plenty of servers etc. to get it up and running. I'm gonna move this convo to the topic I opened on it!"}, {"response": 72, "author": "nike", "date": "Thu, Jan 22, 1998 (10:31)", "body": "hi ey, a guy from Brighton, I was actually thinking about taking a train down there and have a look at the beach... Well I have one more free week after my exams over here, so maybe Ill check it out... It's funny, how everybody thinks about a something he or she differnetly, I saw a response earlier on in this topic of somebody asking what vc could mean, and funnily the first thing I thought about was Victoria Cross (something I would never have dreamt of if I wouldn't have spent the last half year in London I must admid) but there you can see how much your environment influences even the way you think ;-) Okay, keep communicatin bye Nike"}, {"response": 73, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 23, 1998 (04:25)", "body": "What's Victoria Cross?"}, {"response": 74, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, Jan 26, 1998 (13:14)", "body": "The Victoria Cross is the highest award available to anybody in the United Kingdom. It's comparable to the Congressional Medal of Honour, but is conferred even less often. The two last VCs that I know of were in the Falklands War, 1982, to Sergeant Ian McKay (decd.) and Lt. Col Herbert Jones (decd.), both posthumously and both members of the Parachute Regiment..."}, {"response": 75, "author": "fishergod", "date": "Thu, Feb 19, 1998 (20:53)", "body": "Greetings all: Coming from Fairbanks, Alaska. Just wanted to say hello and check this site out. I lived in Denver for 2 years, and as beutiful as it is, I am glad to be back north where the winters \"blow\" and the fishing is excellent!"}, {"response": 77, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 20, 1998 (11:14)", "body": "Welcome E Squared, hope you find some things of interest here. What do you do for a livlihood in the far north?"}, {"response": 78, "author": "fishergod", "date": "Fri, Feb 20, 1998 (13:28)", "body": "I am currently attending the Univ. of AK. Fairbanks. My field of specialty is History and Education. If all goes well I should be graduating by this time next year. Thanks for the response Terry!"}, {"response": 79, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Feb 21, 1998 (17:52)", "body": "Welcome Eric - good to see you. Have you checked out any of the other conferences on the Spring? \"Porch\" is a good place to check out for general information."}, {"response": 80, "author": "TIM", "date": "Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (15:10)", "body": "I'll admit that when I first saw vc, I thought, \"vietcong\". I found out otherwise in another conference. Eric, are you implying that the winters, in Denver, suck?"}, {"response": 81, "author": "chadneff", "date": "Wed, Nov 25, 1998 (01:15)", "body": "I was going to say that, \"Evidently invitations work, Terry. Thanks for the invite.\" I'm a middle aged guy that's just been wandering around most of my life and I just wandered in here after Terry sent me email. Well Perhaps that's not exactly true. I've done customer support for some local ISPs and I'd like to come to terms with that concept of local. I am keenly interested in what has value to people. Unfortunately, time is always a problem for me, just like everyone else in this pre/inter millenium haze. (I could also use a good spell checker)"}, {"response": 82, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 25, 1998 (05:29)", "body": "Hey Chad glad you made it, so are you currently working for a local Austin ISP?"}, {"response": 83, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Nov 25, 1998 (12:53)", "body": "Welcome, Chad, and thanks for giving us the time to check us out!"}, {"response": 84, "author": "chadneff", "date": "Thu, Nov 26, 1998 (10:53)", "body": "Thanks for the welcome. Sort of, Terry, I'm currnently fiddling around in San Marcos. They let me answer connectivity questions for SMI,inc (San Marcos Internet, Inc.) We're just talking the dialup. The xDSL and ISDN etc.or out of my league."}, {"response": 85, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 28, 1998 (17:33)", "body": "Where's your office in SM in relation to Jeffs?"}, {"response": 86, "author": "chadneff", "date": "Wed, Dec  2, 1998 (01:07)", "body": "JeffK is right off the square, SMI is down by the parks, Rio Vista Swimming pool. (We're 'bout a mile toward the IH35 form Jeff's place. Close enough for a 700 to 900+ Kbps ADSL connection.)"}, {"response": 87, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  2, 1998 (05:58)", "body": "What are your current projects? Hey, did you make it down to Schlitterbahn this past summer?"}, {"response": 88, "author": "chadneff", "date": "Wed, Dec  2, 1998 (20:00)", "body": "I just fiddle around watching other people do stuff. Mostly a jack of all trades, master of none. My background in graphics with a smattering of electronics from the military. Nope, Closest I've come to vacations has been the California ISPcons the last couple of years."}, {"response": 89, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  3, 1998 (06:30)", "body": "What kind of graphics are you involved with, Chad?"}, {"response": 90, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (12:49)", "body": "Hi. I just got here the other day and still feeling my way around. Confining myself to this one conference for now. I am an Utne regular for that last couple of years. Looking around for a new home. Haven't been kicked out yet, but it could be just a matter of time since I'm coming up against the authoritarian aspect over there. Will I get mobbed by twenty people just for saying that. Is it save here. How do I summarize who I am? Mid 40's, poor, educated, intelligent, sincere, honest, anti-patriarchy in a big way, Canadian, SWM. INterested in organizational communications, mythology, networks, transformations of consciousness on a global scale. That should be enough to either interest you or scare you away."}, {"response": 91, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (13:32)", "body": "Welcome, ov, though I'm just as new here as you are... And no, it is not SAFE here, but then nothing you care about *is*. ;)"}, {"response": 92, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (13:54)", "body": "Surely there must be a place of sanctuary somewhere."}, {"response": 93, "author": "moulton", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (14:33)", "body": "Hi Ov. It's good to see you here."}, {"response": 94, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (14:48)", "body": "Greetings Barry Still getting used to the software. How does a person read offline. I've noticed that when I'm offline I get nothing put missing data error message and told to repost. Being able to read offline is essential for me and I won't use a conferencing system that doesn't allow this."}, {"response": 95, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (20:03)", "body": "You can do it with a shell account pretty easily. Would you like one?"}, {"response": 96, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (20:42)", "body": "Is there someplace here that explains the details on this and what's involved. I might just wait awhile Terry, but thanks for the offer, and nice to know that it is an option. Let's find out if I'm going to be a permanent resident before I move in all my stuff. :-)"}, {"response": 97, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (21:22)", "body": "Welcome Robert. I do not scare very easily and I like your interests. Please stay and get comfortable. I don't recall a single instance of being born knowing Yapp software. You make your mistakes and we all understand."}, {"response": 98, "author": "Farfnarf", "date": "Sat, Aug 19, 2000 (12:08)", "body": "Over a year since a posting in here was made. I just joined. I guess I'll look around and see if the whole place is unused. The topic heading askes \"who are you,\" etc. I'm a regular patron at the Utne Caf\ufffd and The Gate. I live in Lincoln, Nebraska, having moved up here from Austin, Texas (Anderson Mill area) way back in '88. I'm from L.A., Calif- ornia originally. World traveler. Slowed that down a bit since coming here and settling in more ways than one. Gonna look around now. See ya!"}, {"response": 99, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Aug 19, 2000 (12:47)", "body": "Welcome, Jerry, and Aloha!"}, {"response": 100, "author": "Farfnarf", "date": "Sat, Aug 19, 2000 (16:03)", "body": "Thank you, Marcia. I'm still kind of feeling my way around the software here."}, {"response": 101, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Aug 20, 2000 (00:23)", "body": "I can understand that. It took me ages to find my way around. And now I havw become accomplished in messing up HTML in all conferences on Spring. Quite proud of that... well, proud is not really what that funny feeling is...!"}, {"response": 102, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Aug 20, 2000 (10:49)", "body": "Hey welcome Jerry, let us know if you have any questions about getting around. The \"last 50\" is a real handy feature."}, {"response": 103, "author": "Farfnarf", "date": "Sun, Aug 20, 2000 (14:20)", "body": "Thanks for the welcome, Terry (Marcia, too). Yeah, I've been using the \"last 50\" feature. This is a real trip after being used to Motet. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 10, "subject": "Brighton Conferencing", "response_count": 9, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (09:31)", "body": "OK. We have the hardware for the project, and more than likely the software. The problem we have is creating a \"core group\" of people to attract others to come in...any suggestions?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "gribz", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (10:08)", "body": "Ok, for a start your going to need some sort of direction.. What are you going to focus the talks about, how many conferences are you going to have? Who's going to start everything off?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (10:12)", "body": "Darn good questions :) Focusing the conferences: I don't know. I'm unsure as to exactly what people *want*. Here at Spring, the two or three busiest confs have been Motorcycle and Drool I would say...Oh, and the Bronte conf was ridiculously busy a while back. What links those three I don't know! They just seemed to hit the right spot with a few ppl, which drew a whole load more in! As for how many conferences, I don't have a clue. I would guess that at startup we would have probably two or three - we don't want to open conferneces and then have them sit there unused, because then ppl will think the place is deserted! Starting things off? I don't know the best way to advertise it. We have links with one of the Brighton Cyber-Cafes, and I could probably build something up with the other one..."}, {"response": 4, "author": "gribz", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (10:19)", "body": "It's just occured to me, that most people dont tend to stick to the topic.. Well, on Usenet at least most people tend to talk about anything.. Getting a group of people who actually talk and not sit there staring will be the difficult part IMO.."}, {"response": 5, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sat, Dec  6, 1997 (10:24)", "body": "Well, the idea is not to have rigidly defined and strictly enforced topics. People tend to ramble at tangents and stuff all the time. One thing that conferencing software encourages is a conversational form of posting - you don't need to quote someone else's response, since everyone can read it just up the screen. You've hit the nail on the head with the last point. We have to invite the right people in at the start, and get them talking, if we're going to attract anyone else."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 15, 1998 (06:43)", "body": "How many folks are you going to invite and how are you identifying them, Mike?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jan 18, 1998 (14:29)", "body": "Something relevant that I read on the WELL today: Topic 320 [vc]: Publicising a vc #28 of 37: Stoopid Jerk (silly) Sat Jan 17 '98 (22:43) 60 lines Yes, what Brighton needs is a River-a-like, imho. The birthplace of the English language is the ideal location for a text-only online environment. Despite pervaisive cultural decline, the Brits continue to be more literate than we Yanks. Wow. They read books with no pictures in 'em. From the River FAQ : > Q. Does The River have direct dial-in access? > > No. Internet access is globally inclusive, and The River is > dedicating its resources first to global access. The River will > continue investigating other forms of access as they become > technically and financially feasible, but we believe telnet access > provides us with the best way to make ourselves reachable by people > from all over the world. [...] Especially Brighton. ;-) > The River uses YAPP, which is very similar to the Picospan program > used by the WELL and Grex. [...] > The River is currently housed on a PC Pentium, using Free BSD Unix. [...] Radio Free Unix. > Q. Do you have plans for a GUI interface? > > Yes. The River is experimenting with options that help users > participate more fully and deeply in conversation with each other. > A graphical user interface offers exciting possibilities for ease of > use, inclusion of sound, pictures & video, and hypertext linking. > The River provides options such as these while preserving the > ability to conduct focused, ongoing conversations and maintaining > accessibility to all users. Uh-oh. Has anyone looked into the possibility of individuals or small groups of people running single conferences, each conference at its own telnet site, each site run by different people? A central telnet site would contain a directory listing all of the conferences at the other sites. Scripted software would enable you to go from conference to conference without manually entering telnet addresses. I mean, look at all of the MUDs out there. Each conference could be run like a MUD, by individual \"wizards\" for free. Picospan is superior to usenet, imho. It's almost instantaneous. No worries about propagation, forged cancels and the like. Spam is more easily dealt with. There are lots of forums on the web these days. I've posted at Cafe Utne, Poets & Writers Speakeasy, Salon, Slate, NPR, The Atlantic Unbound, and many others. There are also software-driven graphical super-IRCs like The Palace. But is a web presence really necessary or even desirable for text-only conferencing? A single URL could announce the existence of the loose confederation of conferences. Beyond that, who needs the web?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Feb 20, 1998 (12:53)", "body": "It's *ALIVE*!!! After a brief recess over the Christmas/Winter period, Brighton-based WELL-a-like (working title only ;) is breathing again. I am meeting with Simon Turner of Virtual Brighton on Tuesday of next week, to sort out some more stuff - keep your fingers crossed!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb 20, 1998 (14:49)", "body": "Fingers crossed, good luck! Glad to see a liftoff beginning. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 11, "subject": "Combining conferencing and email", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (12:29)", "body": "Nope. No community - the whole point is to draw people in and make them part of something more than an e-mail list. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 12, "subject": "Regional virtual communities - can they work?", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 29, 1998 (23:31)", "body": "Too bad about the fickleness. What can we do to make it nicer so folks will want to stay and feel a sense of beloinging and loyalty?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Jan 29, 1998 (23:31)", "body": "you can only lead a horse to water Paul..."}, {"response": 5, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Feb  1, 1998 (07:53)", "body": "Although scorned by many, the idea of a financial contribution to your community seems a good one. Somebody who makes a regular, small contribution to the \"upkeep\" of the system feels they have a \"stake\" in it. This can also help reduce the idea of \"gangs\" and \"AB groups\" of users - everyone pays the money every month, creating a base level higher than a completely free system, where the old-boy-network reigns supreme."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Feb  6, 1998 (17:59)", "body": "Here's a fine discussion of how virtual communities can be a success from the WELL's acerbic Gerard Van der Leun, the dreaded 'boswell' himself, reprinted with his consent: Topic 301 [vc]: Electric Minds: The Next Generation #930 of 931: Special Master (boswell) Fri Feb 6 '98 (09:43) 277 lines As I noted elsewhere on the Web last October: Ah..... I love the smell of \"community\" in the morning as one organization after another burns large sacks of money in pursuit of this grail. Each one refusing, because the suits know better, to learn from hard won and long experience. Why is it that these folks, in their rabid pursuit of growth and margin, cannot reflect for a moment on the old saw, \"Rome was not built in a day.\" You'd think at the very least they'd be cognizant of the fact that \"Rome was not *burned* in a day.\" But as we have learned in the fields of online tech, burning is faster than building. Look, it is no secret on how to build these spaces and make them thrive. It has been known to those of us that do it for a long, long time exactly how to do it: minds + variety + freedom + disk space + speed + time = successful online conferencing. It really is, to quote the immortal Ross Perot, \"Jes' that simple.\" But each part of that equation is critical and trying to run cheap on any one of them dooms the whole. This has been true since the dawn ages of The Source and Parti, and will be true until the last ding-dong of doom. Let's take them in order: 1) Minds -- This is your most essential ingredient and, alas, it is the most scarce. In the dawn of online time we freely gave ourselves to our nightly chit-chat because we were interested in the process and interested in what like minds had to say. A few of us, very few when compared to the whole, were very good at it. We were generalists and we had the ability to type quickly and think on the fly. We knew a little bit about a lot of things and a lot about a few things and had an opinion about everything and were not shy about saying it. We knew how to 'speakwrite' (The blend of clarity, attitude, personality, humor, and simple declarative statements that elicited responses from others and drew them into the thread.). We knew that once someone could be lured into participating in the thread they would come back not just for the 'information' but to see what others said about what they said (Interest + ego = Participation). We knew that what people came for was both information AND attention: the two major currencies of cspace - - the first silver, the latter gold. We knew when to encourage, when to question, and when to flame hairless. And make no mistake, Flames are very good for business no matter what the folks who insist on rules and limits might say. The presence of a few engaged minds on a system drew in others and sooner or later, if you were lucky and the rest of the equation was in place, others followed and brought still others in with them. There was and is a lot of triage at first and all along the way, but if the host core was sharp and left to itself, it pretty much did its job as expected. Trouble started when one of these early prototypes, Howard Rheingold Release 1.0, decided that what was being built was in fact a community when it was really, on its good days, just a meeting of the minds -- or the mind if you will -- and decided to call the thing 'community.' All sorts of lame, banal and unfortunate stuff has happened as a result of this hapless metaphor, not the least of which is expanded expectations on the part of those who came online in the last few years in their millions. 'Community' means a lot of sentimental things to most people and it means those things in a way that the thin and bloodless medium of cspace can never hope to accomplish. Hence, people came expecting the excitement of Manhattan or the sublime nostalgia of some evanescent and eternal Mayberry. Neither happened because there has to be a \"there\" here and there is no \"there\" here. Just our words and maybe now our home movies, records, and sound files. It is not a world dimensional, nor is it a world illusional such as television. There's just a lot of folks sitting around doing recreational typing in order to see what's typed back at them. But within that limitation there's a lot of room to move around since the mind of man is a wonderous thing and with just the few letters of the alphabet Shakespeare wrote Hamlet. So there's a lot of things to express, a lot of sentiments to exchange, a lot of arguments to have and a lot of people who like to sit back and read expressions, sentiments, and arguments. And of course, there are brains to pick and information to be gleaned. A community it ain't and never will be, but a meeting of the WorldMind? Well, history will tell. At the same time, the proportion of people writing to the proportion of people reading was about 20/80 and of those 20% a much smaller number of us can actually lead and form groups of interest at will. Much of "}, {"response": 7, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Feb 15, 1998 (12:29)", "body": "typical negative stuff from boswell about \"community\" there..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 24, 1998 (15:12)", "body": "From geert@xs4all.nl Mon Jul 20 09:52:19 1998 Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:30:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: Geert Lovink To: nettime-l@Desk.nl Subject: Amsterdam Public Digital Culture (with Patrice Riemens) Sender: owner-nettime-l@basis.Desk.nl Amsterdam Public Digital Culture On the Contradictions Among the Users by Geert Lovink & Patrice Riemens By the late nineties, the (in)famous Amsterdam squatters movement, which had dominated the socio-cultural (and law-and-order) agenda in the previous decade, had petered out in the city's streets, but its autonomous yet pragmatic mode of operation had infiltrated in the working of the more progressive cultural institutions. It was the time that the cultural centres 'Paradiso' and 'De Balie', which were at the vanguard of local cultural politics, embraced the 'technological culture' theme in their programming. In the beginning, this took the shape of a critical, if somewhat passive, observation of the technologies surrounding us, and of their attendant risks, but it quickly evolved in a Do-It-Yourself, from below approach. Technology was no longer seen as the preserve of science, big business, or the government. It could also become the handy-work of average groups or individuals. Mass avaibility of electronic hardware and components had created a broad user-base for definitely 'low-tech' applications, something that in its turn spawned fests of video arts, pirate radio, and public access television, beside well attended cultural events where technology was rearranged and playfully dealt with. The time also was witnessing the emergence of electronic networks. These were of course already in use with the military, banking and finance, and academia. A cluster of grassroot computer enthusiasts had also been building up a patchwork of so-called 'bulletin boards systems' (BBS) for some time, but it were the hackers' repeated and much publicized intrusions in the big network, known as the Internet, that bought electronic communications for the masses on the political agenda. Thus was the demand for public access born. What made the Amsterdam situation special, however, was the degree of organization amongst the hackers and their willingness to structure themselves as an open social movement. This enabled them to communicate with a wide audience and to negotiate their acceptation in society at large through journalists, cultural mediators, some politicians, and even a few enlightened members of the police force. After a whirlwind performance in Paradiso by the notorious German 'Chaos Computer Club' (CCC) in the fall of 1988, the stage was set for the 'Galactic Hackers Party', the first open, public international convention of hackers in Europe, which took place in August 1989, again with Paradiso as venue. From then on, hackers had deftly positioned themselves between (media) artists, militants, and cultural workers, and were even beginning to get kudos from some parts of the computer trade. The concept of public media in Amsterdam was already largely in place thanks to the remarkably deep penetration of cable broadcasting (Radio and TV; over 90% of households were reached by the mid-80s). This KTA cable system had been set up and was owned by the municipality. It was run as a public service, and its bill of fare and tariff rates were set by the city council. The council had also legislated that one or two channels were to be made available to minority- and artists groups --also as a way to curb the wild experiments of TV pirates-- and so various initiatives sprung up whose offerings, to say the least, were far removed from mainstream TV programming. This peculiar brand of 'community television' did not go for an amateurish remake of professional journalism, but took a typically Amsterdam street-level (mostly 'live') approach, on both the artistic, and the political plane. Whereas the now-co-opted TV pirates were thus sucessfully taken out, the presence on the airwaves of three non-profit 'cultural pirate' radio stations remained tolerated. All this resulted in a politically (self-) conscious, technically fearless, and above all, financially affordable media ambiance, something that was also very much fostered by the proliferation of small, specialised, non-commercial outfits in the realm of electronic music ('STEIM'), 'Montevideo' and 'Time Based Arts' for general, and more political video-art respectivly, and technoculture magazines ('Mediamatic'). These developments have contributed to a media culture in Amsterdam that is neither shaped by market-oriented populism, nor informed by high-brow cultural elitism. The various players and the institutions in the field did get subsidies from the usual funding bodies and government agencies, but they have managed to retain their independance thanks to a mostly voluntary-based mode of operation and a low-tech (or rather: 'in-house tech') and low-budget approach. Also the shifts in funding practice, moving away from recurrent subsidies t"}, {"response": 9, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Sep  2, 1998 (22:29)", "body": "SURVEYS Weekly free email on what's new in surveys on the Internet By Nua Email: surveys@nua.ie Web: http://www.nua.ie/surveys/ ******************************************************************* August 25th 1998 Published By: Nua Limited Volume 3 No. 27 ******************************************************************** EDITORIAL ******************************************************************** Welcome to another weekly edition of Nua Internet Surveys. This newsletter provides information on surveys and reports on the Internet, and is brought to you by Nua - one of Europe's leading Internet consultancies and developers. While the Internet remains a forum where \"everybody has a voice\" and the status quo still nestles among the dissident, people's motivations and social leanings do not undergo a sudden metamorphosis as they move from the physical world to the virtual one. People like the same things online as they do offline. In terms of e-commerce and online business, people tend to retain the confidence in brands and products marketed offline rather than be seduced by clever online marketing of a product they are unfamiliar with. As for websites, people who have never logged on in their lives still know the words Yahoo! and AOL.com. Yahoo! is synonymous with the Internet for the majority of first-time users. Just as Nike is synonymous with sport. If you want to surf the Internet, go to Yahoo!, if you want to buy sneakers, go to a Nike store. When we first set up trading points and centres for bartering, we chose our locations carefully. The kings of ancient Ireland built their castles up on top of hills. The Egyptians built their settlements along the River Nile. In the online world we locate ourselves near portals - the \"ports\" of the Digital Age, where the main rivers and seas of information converge. As portal sites grow, they are beginning to resemble citadels of long ago or the larger cities of today. People congregate in masses around them to trade and communicate with each other. A recent article equated the setting up of an online business outside of a portal as the equivalent of opening up a supermarket in the back end of nowhere. The concept that virtual space is not hierarchical and that there are no \"geographically\" strategic places to set up in is changing. The virtual world is beginning to reflect the physical one. As smaller websites nestle under the wing of the large portals, the portals start to resemble walled cities as opposed to global villages. And those areas left outside the embrace of portals are beginning to resemble high mountain villages. As the Internet grows, the real space for marketers is shrinking. The emergence of portals in the past few months has changed the face of the Web for both business and entertainment. While there are tens of thousands of websites to visit, it is only the very seasoned netizen who will actually explore the wider reaches of the Internet. We know that most people tend to visit the same sites repeatedly. The average person has a list of ten websites they visit on a weekly basis and outside of that there is not much divergence. Perhaps this is because - unlike TV - using the Internet demands time from the users. The time it takes to download a site and look through it for pertinent information does not encourage those with tight schedules to look beyond the trusted and familiar. Perhaps as people become more Net savvy and bandwidth improves this will change. But for the near future, it looks like the Net landscape will continue to be defined by mergers, acquisitions and portals. Is mise le meas, Sorcha Ni hEilidhe. surveys@nua.ie vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 13, "subject": "m-net.arbornet.org", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Feb  9, 1998 (07:28)", "body": "Item 228 entered Sat, Feb 7, 1998 (15:12) by Dave Cahill (dpc) January, 1998 Financial Report Arbornet, Inc. January, 1998 Financial Report Cash in bank, December 31 92.82 Cash on hand, December 31: December receipts not deposited 55.00 ________ Total cash, December 31 $147.82 Receipts, January: Dividends on deposits 0.39 M-Net Memberships 100.00 M-Net Patronships 560.00 Auction 157.00 Pure donations 110.00 ________ Total receipts, January $937.39 Disbursements, January: Rent, February 168.00 WWNet internet link 125.00 Dialins 292.59 ISDN line 65.12 Checking service charge 3.00 ________ Total disbursements, January $653.71 Net gain, January: $273.68 Cash in bank, January 31: 421.50 Notes: 1. It was an excellent month for us. We gained $273.68 after paying all the bills. 2. We had the largest amount of gross receipts since August, 1997. We took in the largest amount for Memberships/Patronships since January, 1996--two years ago. 3. The rent went from $161.00 to $168.00 due to the consumer price index adjustment in our lease. 4. We were assessed a $3.00 checking service charge for the first time because our bank balance fell below the minimum. 5. We need to do as well for the next several months as we did in January to have an adequate cash reserve. Thanks very much to all those who pitched in!"}, {"response": 2, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Sun, Feb 15, 1998 (12:34)", "body": "that is truly amazing! I am inspired now! Maybe my ideas are not so far-fetched...."}]}, {"num": 14, "subject": "cyberspace.org", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (02:56)", "body": "M-Net / Grex Message By: Jan Wolter (janc_CW) 7/26/98 10:51:13 AM A few bits of news on Grex: - We've been getting lots of new users. On the average day, we get 175 people signing up for new accounts. Last Saturday we had 250 new users, a new record. We keep breaking our records though. Grex now has about 24,000 users. At the current rate of growth, we expect to exceed 64K users sometime next summer. This has our Unix gurus worried because most versions of Unix, including ours, go cross-eyed at the concept of more than 64K users. - In spite of this vast growth in users, the new machine is holding up pretty well. Most of the time, the machine is still pretty zippy. - Vandals seem to be holding steady at about 0.5% to 1% of the users. Unfortunately, that means we get one or two new vandals attacking the system every day. Luckily, the vast majority are morons (who else would attack a free system?). Security has held well so far, and we've been able to survive most denial-of-service attacks. If Grex is slow these days, it's usually because a mail bomb or fork bomb attack is in progress. If it's down, then it's either an especially nasty fork bomb or a power outage. - Finances are OK, but not great. Membership hasn't been growing anywhere near as fast as usership, and we are reaching the point where our income only covers our operating expenses, leaving nothing for improvements and upgrades. We are planning to start getting a bit more aggressive about asking for donations. After people have been on Grex for three months, they will get E-mail asking them if they might like to donate some money. - Grex was originally constituted to be a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt corporation, but in the first 6 years of its existance, nobody ever filed the (somewhat daunting) paperwork with the IRS. I did this a few months ago, and we have now been formally granted tax-exempt status. Among other things, this means we won't have to pay tax on the phone bills for our 13 dial-in lines, which saves us $30 a month, which is enough to tip us back into the black for a while. Next step - go through a similar process to see if we can avoid Ann Arbor city property taxes. - We did some redesign on our web page, at http://www.cyberspace.org to make it a bit more attractive and informative. Still very low-tech. It looks like the basic question we have to answer is not \"can we survive?\" but \"how big do we want to get?\" None of our volunteer staff and board members are all that eager to keep growing, but the only way to slow growth would be to make our service in some way less attractive to some segment of our user base. We've worked hard to make it good. Making it less good isn't our idea of fun either. Our best chance is if more people start more good free services - we need more competition."}, {"response": 2, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (09:13)", "body": "I keep trying... vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 15, "subject": "Links to the Spring, where have you seen 'em?", "response_count": 60, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (04:48)", "body": "http://notts.net/community/index.html"}, {"response": 2, "author": "jgross", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (13:40)", "body": "http://www.fieldbook.com/internet.html#10-Conferencing where I originally found out about Spring"}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (23:15)", "body": "Fieldbook, huh? You're a regular Boy Scout, eh, Jim!"}, {"response": 4, "author": "jgross", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (12:11)", "body": "i only go camping in Autumn where the weather is so nice out there the fire burns bright the stars twinkle like they're blinking with delight i always lose my way and am constantly getting lost so i listen into my heart and just lie down on the moss there's that random rhythm in nature's welcome i feel at home and okay out there with Autumn"}, {"response": 5, "author": "jgross", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (12:13)", "body": ""}, {"response": 6, "author": "riette", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (14:43)", "body": "I'm not sure anymore, Terry. I think I was looking for stuff on the Bront\ufffd sisters, and sort of stumbled upon it. Most people probably get here like that - I don't know. You and Wer have been here since the beginning, right? And remember to ask Mike when he comes back - he told me on the phone once that he's not been here for that much longer than me. I'll try and give him a buzz this weekend, but I think he's on holiday somewhere. I presume all the people who log in will have the address on their home pages as well?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "wolf", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (15:15)", "body": "haven't done that yet, but it will be and soon!"}, {"response": 8, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (16:01)", "body": "Wolf, I think, has been around here longer than I have..."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep  4, 1998 (18:58)", "body": "If you want the history, you can hit the archives. For example, take a look at the stuff in genx from our archives. You can still view the original conferencing system, or I should more accurately, say the predecessor to the original operating system. We started out with a homegrown system that Ben Cohen wrote. The we went to caucus telnet only. Then we found out about yapp and used a telnet version that we got some help from Jan Wolter on, then we finally settled on Kaylene and Dave Thalers yapp interface. Through all these interfaces there have been differnet folks. In this context, wer is a relative newcomer. I recently got an email from Ben Cohen who is fascinated by our archives and reads stuff he wrote years ago. Either wer or I can post a link to the arvhices if you want to dig through our early history. It's in http://www.spring.net/~dbii which is Dave Bluesteins' directory. This is cool, I typing this while I watch the Cubs game and I have a little window with the game and I have our web interface full screen. It's WebTV version II. hu poto dream, heh. Who, here knows the search engine that igs up your link??? Sports used to be a hot conference. And genx once was torrid. The porch conference used to be called gat. Histoire, mes amis."}, {"response": 10, "author": "riette", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (01:49)", "body": "Wow. And that was ten years ago?"}, {"response": 11, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (09:36)", "body": "you sure about that wer? i seem to recall that nick invited me here and i never left and you were already here. how long have i been here? at least a year, huh?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (11:45)", "body": "I think the answer I based that on is in genx... something like when is your spring anniversary..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (17:06)", "body": "although that topic may very well be in news..."}, {"response": 14, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (17:08)", "body": "you still here?"}, {"response": 15, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (17:11)", "body": "more or less, and you?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (17:13)", "body": "same...you feeling better?"}, {"response": 17, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (17:18)", "body": "sporadically..."}, {"response": 18, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (17:19)", "body": "this is a good thing right? versus feeling bad all the time?"}, {"response": 19, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Sep  5, 1998 (17:23)", "body": "something like that..."}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (01:06)", "body": "wer, create a new conference. Call it 'inner'. Make it member only. And put your best friends here on the member list. And then test it to make sure it works. ok?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "riette", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (02:28)", "body": "Yes, make sure you call it INNER and not INNARD!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (02:41)", "body": "(and I just thought I was confused before...) not sure as to that being a good thing and besides, I've got stuff to do..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "stacey", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (03:14)", "body": "i remember when wolfie first showed up! WER wasn't around the Spring when I was still logging in from Austin but when I came back in Fall of 1997, he'd been around for awhile... (just sitting here reflecting Paul... about logging in covertly at MagneticBunny through the Telnet prompt you made an icon for on my desktop... no wonder it took me so long to get all of that ISO 9000 documentation written!)"}, {"response": 24, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (15:14)", "body": "terry, i see wer's point, i think..... stacey: nice to see you on a weekend! i remember when you could only log in at the school!! wer: you need a break, man, stop working so damned hard! *hug*"}, {"response": 25, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (16:57)", "body": "wolf: can I borrow money for the bills?"}, {"response": 26, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (17:16)", "body": "Cool deal. I think at some point it would be good to have a private, userlist only, \"inner\" sanctum conference for the regulars here. One where we could get more down and dirty on a more intimate level. Just an idea. Sorry if I phrased that in a pushy way, wer."}, {"response": 27, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (20:11)", "body": "how much you need? course, i gotta go through the \"bank\" so, it might be easier to ask riette, as she was planning to rob one *grin* terry: i thought we were already down and dirty and on an intimate level--you've been to screwed, right?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (22:01)", "body": "Jim, I bet you really earned that poetry merit badge! :-)"}, {"response": 29, "author": "jgross", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (22:39)", "body": "When they conferred it to me, they stuck it on my right hand. They used these long thick steel pins and barb wire. I'm write-handed, so I couldn't write again for 38 years. The healing was as long as what it took for me to come across you. Have you noticed this kinda thing very much in your life? The miraculous effect you have on badly injured Boy Scouts? Autumn, could you take a moment to be real frank with me for a second and answer this one last question I somehow have for you: are you some sort of goddess? It's okay if ya aren't. If you are, I mean, I know, it's pretty wowsy."}, {"response": 30, "author": "autumn", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (22:46)", "body": "Of course I'm a goddess, Jim!! How else do you explain...?"}, {"response": 31, "author": "jgross", "date": "Sun, Sep  6, 1998 (23:27)", "body": "My hand thanks you with all its heart. I bet some goddesses just can't always come through. But your miracles are of the highest order. Make checks payable to your little bundle of joy? To your bouncing bounding boundless soul?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (22:40)", "body": "Okay, all those who want access to the inner sanctum e-mail me..."}, {"response": 33, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (03:53)", "body": "And what will happen at the inner sanctum?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (08:22)", "body": "Talk about stuff that you only want to share with our immediate group. Any new members only admitted by 100% approval of the group that's there. It looks like wer may have created it. This is what's known as a \"private\" conference."}, {"response": 35, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (08:27)", "body": "can i join?"}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (08:27)", "body": "OK by me."}, {"response": 37, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (09:12)", "body": "not created yet, wanted to know who wanted in first..."}, {"response": 38, "author": "wolf", "date": "Tue, Sep  8, 1998 (18:31)", "body": "well, only if you guys trust me, may i join the party?"}, {"response": 39, "author": "riette", "date": "Wed, Sep  9, 1998 (01:49)", "body": "No, I don't want to go! No, no, don't listen to that, just playing hard to get!!! I'd love to come too if you guys have no objection since I'm relatively new here."}, {"response": 40, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Sep 10, 1998 (20:43)", "body": "Me too."}, {"response": 41, "author": "wer", "date": "Fri, Sep 11, 1998 (16:36)", "body": "inner is up and running...please let me or Terry know if you have problems getting in or posting..."}, {"response": 42, "author": "wolf", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (10:54)", "body": "added the link to my site AND invited a fellow poet and philosopher to drop in. don't know if they've dropped by yet, but look for 'em!"}, {"response": 43, "author": "riette", "date": "Mon, Sep 14, 1998 (13:21)", "body": "cool!"}, {"response": 44, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep 15, 1998 (01:03)", "body": "Good!! Keep invitin'"}, {"response": 45, "author": "riette", "date": "Tue, Sep 15, 1998 (13:00)", "body": "We mustn't forget to put a link to the Spring in the Art Centaur gallery either!"}, {"response": 46, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jan 23, 1999 (14:48)", "body": "Altavista reports 226 web sites that link to http://www.spring.net/"}, {"response": 47, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 23, 1999 (18:02)", "body": "Great, do any stand out in particular?"}, {"response": 48, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jan 24, 1999 (13:18)", "body": "didn't go and look...it was part of a free assessment that I ran from some site..."}, {"response": 49, "author": "wolf", "date": "Wed, Feb  3, 1999 (16:17)", "body": "well i've got links plasterd on my site three different times. not that my site is popular, but hope it helps!"}, {"response": 50, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Feb  3, 1999 (17:57)", "body": "you go, girl!!!"}, {"response": 51, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Feb  4, 1999 (08:59)", "body": "Alright wolfie!"}, {"response": 52, "author": "wolf", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (02:21)", "body": "wait, i've got 4! woohoo!!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Feb  9, 1999 (22:09)", "body": "do I hear five?"}, {"response": 54, "author": "mrobens", "date": "Thu, Jun 15, 2000 (08:16)", "body": "Just ran into this site and thought you might want to submit the Spring domain name: http://www.websmostlinked.com/ will rank it according to the number of sites linked to Spring. It's not all inclusive, but there are over 500,000 sites in their database."}, {"response": 55, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Jun 15, 2000 (08:47)", "body": "Wow, thanks Myretta."}, {"response": 56, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Jun 15, 2000 (09:00)", "body": "I submitted it and got a response that we would know in 24 hours, I'll publish3 the results and put up a page of links to these sites. It's only fair to reciprocate."}, {"response": 57, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jun 15, 2000 (23:46)", "body": "Only 8 more hours to go till we get our results, are you sitting on the edge of your chair?"}, {"response": 58, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jun 15, 2000 (23:49)", "body": "Absolutely, For sure and indeed!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jun 16, 2000 (23:04)", "body": "So, it has been 8 hours...Yes????"}, {"response": 60, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Fri, Dec  1, 2000 (08:40)", "body": "http://www.robotwisdom.com has a link (bad though) to http://www.spring.net/wmmeyers , I sent them a correction. This is a fun page to visit. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 16, "subject": "memex.org and MEME", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 28, 1998 (17:34)", "body": "Will do! vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 17, "subject": "<A HREF=\"http://www.sanmarcostx.com/conf/\">http://www.sanmarcostx.com/conf/</A>", "response_count": 6, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Dec  2, 1998 (07:54)", "body": "Check it out: http://www.sanmarcostx.com/conf/"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec  3, 1998 (06:31)", "body": "Jeff has put more pieces in place since yesterday. He's prototyping this very rapidly."}, {"response": 3, "author": "TIM", "date": "Thu, Dec  3, 1998 (13:02)", "body": "That is good, because I checked it out yesterday. and a billboard has more going on than that site did yesterday."}, {"response": 4, "author": "chadneff", "date": "Sat, Dec 12, 1998 (14:25)", "body": ""}, {"response": 5, "author": "chadneff", "date": "Sat, Dec 12, 1998 (14:27)", "body": "i think jeff is working on function over form, you sign up and look around the inside?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "PT", "date": "Sun, Dec 13, 1998 (00:04)", "body": "I think that I'm going to have to check this out again. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 18, "subject": "Utne Cafe", "response_count": 64, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Dec 31, 1998 (05:32)", "body": "A one week census of Cafe Utne conferences (with private conferences deleted), listed in order of the number of individual posters: Listed in order of number of individual posters: Conference Topics Posts | Visits PgHits Users Reads Users PostsUsers Nook 188 130004 | 2781 2560 189 12751 189 1471 117 Literature 288 47356 | 1671 1619 217 4342 188 445 96 Currents 446 87389 | 2104 2249 176 5564 170 607 78 Relationships 221 56323 | 1477 1499 180 7207 166 621 62 BodyMind 353 65712 | 831 817 183 2002 162 178 55 Spirit 269 48371 | 827 794 138 2906 114 251 53 Absurd 272 89623 | 806 852 103 3966 91 799 50 Sex 233 50762 | 1054 1050 205 3928 187 441 46 Society 248 31722 | 931 927 106 1860 94 263 42 WomenOnly 157 76245 | 1792 1798 56 6639 57 743 42 Food 101 17503 | 904 909 95 3399 87 316 42 Music 233 29667 | 495 376 134 970 113 102 39 Culture 39 2315 | 774 792 115 1841 91 185 36 GenX 257 130968 | 1926 2344 82 7475 96 1093 36 Film 223 34214 | 822 703 105 1464 84 204 35 Cities 251 13148 | 774 662 120 731 101 91 33 TV 69 5852 | 384 412 69 789 62 98 33 Reed 93 5921 | 647 1051 48 6607 57 704 32 Meta 83 19563 | 1054 1199 80 3970 80 298 31 Philosophy 144 23547 | 450 467 91 1045 79 122 31 Parenting 195 9749 | 436 436 75 1298 69 147 27 Games 45 9823 | 334 310 64 607 61 64 26 LifeJourney 74 11407 | 938 957 56 1967 54 270 25 Feedback 95 16707 | 675 703 79 1436 84 106 24 Arts 154 15876 | 436 431 107 1014 84 98 24 Cafe_Welcome 9 1774 | 693 710 262 530 120 43 24 Media 89 5553 | 481 493 61 1177 66 161 24 Practice 16 278 | 170 134 75 182 53 32 23 Macintosh 78 5428 | 337 287 45 730 41 71 22 Nature 159 23066 | 431 440 54 1036 47 126 20 Big_Sangha 19 2511 | 488 528 105 1208 116 98 20 Education 163 11251 | 295 289 84 484 63 73 19 Globe 80 8967 | 246 253 66 518 62 62 18 Humor 94 6083 | 332 307 94 655 93 51 17 Science 80 7139 | 161 167 50 349 37 34 15 WorkMoney 184 11304 | 344 342 77 528 73 23 15 Fun 119 20025 | 194 173 62 313 55 25 13 Sports 128 7821 | 172 170 30 234 25 33 12 SFBay 39 2848 | 144 143 27 218 24 44 12 Boomers 23 1526 | 188 191 57 269 45 15 11 Canada 92 6522 | 210 207 56 256 42 20 11 Internet 65 2908 | 185 191 41 337 34 47 11 EastCoast 73 3859 | 101 109 39 114 32 10 9 History 66 4002 | 170 170 46 334 32 30 8 PCs 20 746 | 114 115 29 173 25 23 8 InfoAge 74 6493 | 109 113 43 149 35 9 7 Travel 157 5214 | 139 125 71 156 52 6 5 University 55 2595 | 52 55 40 54 20 6 4 HelpMotet 25 1790 | 48 90 98 313 70 3 3 MenOnly 40 1696 | 20 21 13 53 12 5 3 Classifieds 21 100 | 83 69 42 112 35 2 2 CafeNews 20 441 | 227 234 147 109 92 0 0"}, {"response": 2, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Feb 13, 1999 (13:43)", "body": "hmmm..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Aug 12, 1999 (14:26)", "body": "Feedback.35.155: Bryan Higgins (bryan) Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:10:18 CDT (3 lines) I think it's safe to say that those who are still reading Barry's postings on the Well are taking his reports with several tons of salt (hi, Barry!). Feedback.35.156: Lorelei Kring (lorelei) Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:35:48 CDT (2 lines) Too bad for you, then. I don't remember ever seeing him post anything about you but praise anywhere. You're the Motet god."}, {"response": 4, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Aug 12, 1999 (14:28)", "body": "Hi Bryan, Yah, I suppose some people are crying a river of tears at every posting of mine on the Well. I wish I could cry that easily."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 12, 1999 (21:48)", "body": "Fill us in on all the background details, some folks are getting in on this in midstream and may be a bit perplexed. You've got to do the update thing here, if possible."}, {"response": 6, "author": "moulton", "date": "Fri, Aug 13, 1999 (10:11)", "body": "It's kind of a long story . Cafe Utne does not have a social contract. Rather the site managers ask for civility without either defining it or modeling it. There are no express rules, but if you break one, the hosts can take action to damage the standing of whomever they are peeved at. It's an erratic system, lacking in fairness or due process. That tends to generate a lot of thrash, much of which ends up in their Meta Conference . A few of us took exception to this model and said so. Turns out that was a violation of another unwritten rule. The preferred method on Cafe Utne to handle such cases is to declare open season on those who ask too many disturbing questions. Copious verbal abuse is the weapon of choice. The problem arises when that tactic fails. You end up with a mob engaged in a feeding frenzy, but the victim doesn't become consumed. Kind of like the metaphor of the burning bush. And what's left is an embarrassing trail of authorized and sanctioned incivility . Rather than deal with the prevailing culture of incivility, the managers did the expedient thing. They destroyed the evidence and adopted the scapegoat model, first invented by the Babylonians, and widely used ever since. The idea, of course, is to blame the scapegoat for all the nonsense, and banish it to the wilderness. Only it didn't work too well this time. Well, that's not too surprising. It hasn't worked too well since Pontius Pilate tried it one too many times a coupla thousand years ago. The details of the scapegoat model can be found in the scholarship of Rene Girard of Stanford University. Anyway, my case isn't all that important, because it's merely illustrative of a recurring pattern. It's the pattern that matters. The only reason they're after me is because I took a snapshot of the episode and revealed the underlying pattern which is ubiquitous in our culture. It's the same pattern that turned up in the Columbine shootings in Colorado."}, {"response": 7, "author": "ov", "date": "Mon, Aug 16, 1999 (20:52)", "body": "Yes, there is a very interesting story behind the fiat by clique that is rampant over at the cafe. Too bad you know. There are a few new members posting in Big Sangha right now, and saying that they are glad that there is a place like that because they identify with the Utne Reader. They will probably have moved on by Christmas because by then they will discovered that the place is not what it advertises itself to be."}, {"response": 8, "author": "ov", "date": "Tue, Aug 17, 1999 (01:14)", "body": "If you follow the link in post 6 you will see a typical pattern of how taboo topics are disrupted so that it is unable to converse in them. The following people were the dominant posters in those topics. They are all hosts of the cafe. These are the people that set the example and demonstrate to others what happens when you mention subjects that they feel uncomfortable about. Others soon learn that this is what will happen to them if they don't also submit to the will of the hosts. hosts -------- digem kafzali booda jordan riot chiles dior"}, {"response": 9, "author": "ov", "date": "Tue, Aug 17, 1999 (01:35)", "body": "The link I was referring to in the previous post didn't take. I'll try again. embarrassing trail of authorized and sanctioned incivility Notice that Kai, the conference coordinator didn't step in to object to this. By his silence he has condoned this behavior. This is an obvious example, usually this is done much more subtley. Sometimes a reasonable conversation will occur but which is totally off topic. An example was a topic on affluenza (conspicuous consumption) which went on for hundreds of posts on everything but the subject and finally the few people that wished to talk about this stopped posting, at which point everybody else did as well. The obvious intent was to prevent discussion of this subject. A common response to this complaint is that if you don't like it you can leave. Which is what a lot of people land up doing. Usually they have already invested a few months or more before they realize that they have two options, either restrict your conversation to the trivial or leave. There are many people that come to the cafe because they relate to the articles in the Utne Reader and think the cafe is a place for people that relate to these articles, and a place where they can engage in collective action. Almost everything that is worth doing something about is too large for one person to do on their own. They see the cafe as a place where they can work together, where they can have the same effectiveness as if they were working for a corporation but with an activist agenda rather han a corporate agenda. Unfortunately anybody with this intention is soon driven out of the cafe. An interesting question is whether this type of behavior is approved of by the Utne Reader or whether they just don't know about it."}, {"response": 10, "author": "moulton", "date": "Tue, Aug 17, 1999 (12:23)", "body": "The parsimonious hypothesis is that they are oblivious. Do not attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by ignorance and obliviousness. Virtually everything can be explained by ignorance and obliviousness."}, {"response": 11, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Aug 26, 1999 (17:08)", "body": "You do not consider ennui? Or is that included in one of the two?"}, {"response": 12, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Aug 26, 1999 (20:01)", "body": "Boredom? I'll have to think about that. Right after I take a little nap here in this lovely field of poppies. Wake me if it's starts snowing..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Aug 26, 1999 (20:02)", "body": "Boredom? I'll have to think about that. Right after I take a little nap here in this lovely field of poppies. Wake me if it starts snowing..."}, {"response": 14, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Aug 26, 1999 (20:17)", "body": "Yes...yes...but what is snow? I am in a lovely field of orchids drowsing beneath a plumeria tree and watching big white puffy clouds lazily playing with the sun dappling my meadow."}, {"response": 15, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sat, Aug 28, 1999 (09:54)", "body": "Snow is one of the ingredients in a future orchid or a future cloud or a future meadow."}, {"response": 16, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Aug 28, 1999 (12:01)", "body": "Ah...Yes, I have seen it atop the mountains here. But, before the orchids get it, it is softened and gentled and warmed to just the correct temperatures. I have never seen snow on orchids...that must be rare, indeed!"}, {"response": 17, "author": "moulton", "date": "Wed, Sep  8, 1999 (13:43)", "body": "Without notice, Utne is dropping Motet and moving to an as yet unannounced new system. Before the Motet archives vanish altogether, let's revisit some classic postings... Spirit.173 - Daimon Spirit.173.23: Phil (pbb) Sun, 01 Feb 1998 22:05:16 CST (3 lines) When I read Plato's _Apology_ several years ago, in which Socrates described his life, I got the impression that his daimon was an almost physical reaction to intellectual dishonesty. Spirit.173.24: Barry Kort (moulton) Sun, 01 Feb 1998 22:52:05 CST (5 lines) I frequently get a physical reaction to intellectual dishonesty. It's an adrenalin rush that signifies crisis, danger. But I only get it if the intellectual dishonesty is manifested by someone in power, someone capable of instantiating political change on the basis of bogus thinking. Spirit.173.25: Elizabeth Sekellick (lisa451) Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:51:05 CST (1 line) Which pretty much describes Congress, eh, what? Spirit.173.26: Barry Kort (moulton) Mon, 02 Feb 1998 12:45:24 CST (2 lines) Well, actually this week's episode was triggered by a couple of people right here in Cafe Utne. Dog-ear Bookmark Spirit.173.27: Phil (pbb) Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:46:23 CST (2 lines) The daimon might also be a trickster. It may manifest as your antagonist. Spirit.173.28: Barry Kort (moulton) Mon, 02 Feb 1998 17:22:54 CST (1 line) Yep. The Coyote and the RoadRunner. Meep meep! Spirit.173.29: scott (skot) Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:26:27 CST (26 lines) I think I missed that episode Barry. I do remember the one where the Coyote was chasing the RoadRunner, but then Tweety Bird came and asked why he was doing that. Seizing the oppurtunity, the Coyote devoured Tweety. Much to his surprise, *another* Tweety Bird appeared and told him that the first Tweety probably didn't appreciate. So he chased after that one, but it got away. Funny thing is, Tweety Birds starting springing up all over the place, about a dozen of them. This upset him, and he decided the Birds must be conspiring against him. At the same time, the birds were puzzled, some hurt, and some angry at the Coyote's recent deeds. The Coyote said, \"My, you all are just tweeting and tweeting! I can't understand a word you are saying. Why do you hurt me so?\" One of the Tweetys replied, \"You have devoured our friend!\" The Coyote said, \"What's wrong with that? That's who I am. If you can't understand that, then you are living in a haze. Someday you may see things the way I do.\" One of the Tweetys responded, \"But will you ever see things the way the bird you devoured did?\" Unfortunately I missed the rest of the show...I guess how a myth unfolds all depends on perspective, doesn't it? Spirit.173.31: Barry Kort (moulton) Mon, 02 Feb 1998 21:12:46 CST (45 lines) The one I remember is where Elmer Fudd caught Bugs Bunny chewing on a chocolate covered carrot and remonstrated him, saying \"You can't eat chocolate covered carrots here! We're all on a diet because we all think we're too fat!\" But Bugs just looked at Elmer, who was actually pretty skinny, and said, \"Eh, What's up Doc?\" and kept on eating his chocolate covered carrot. So Elmer aimed his shotgun at Bugs and fired a blast, whereupon Bugs said, \"I won't fire at you if you won't fire at me.\" \"No deal,\" said Elmer Fudd. So Bugs took out a Howitzer and blasted one at Elmer, which really startled the audience, because that wasn't the way Disney usually scripted this cartoon. Then Yosemite Sam, who had been watching from the wings, took out an ICBM and launched it at Bugs. Bugs caught the ICBM in a big rubber sheet and reflected it back at Yosemite Sam. After that, things really went to hell in a handbasket. Elmer Fudd and Yosemite Sam recruited a bunch of troops to launch a massive assault on Bugs. But their armaments kept bouncing back in their faces. And Bugs just kept on eating his carrot. Eventually Elmer Fudd, Yosemite Sam and the others decided this cartoon wasn't fun and they weren't really winning, even though they claimed they were, so they left to go start another cartoon somewhere else. Some of the audience said they enjoyed it, but the theater owner wasn't sure it was family entertainment. A few audience members stayed behind to see if Bugs was OK. They couldn't imagine he had survived the firestorm. But Bugs was fine. \"You see, he said, the truth can sometimes be painful, but canards bounce off me harmlessly and reflect back to their owner.\" Whereupon Daffy Duck shows up and screams \"Who you calling a Canard?!\" Bugs hands Daffy a box of Suffering Succotash and quietly says \"Peas be with you.\""}, {"response": 18, "author": "ov", "date": "Wed, Sep  8, 1999 (21:23)", "body": "The new software platform at Utne is Well Engaged 3. The pages load slow, you can't read offline, difficult to navigate, if you accidently hit the back button you go off to mystery land and lose track of where you were, there are cookies galore and the thing is infested with bugs. Utne is trying to rush this through by Oct 5th which everybody says is not enough time. Interesting questions come up on why it takes years to come up with a written set of quidelines yet they can switch to a new system in five weeks. Too many bugs cropping up for them all to be account of configuration. The hosts are all upset because the decision to change software was made before they even found out about it. I guess they didn't like feeling like a lot of the patrons have felt for sometime now. All Utne can do is keep saying \"don't worry it's going to be okay\" which is an expression from past experience that is tantamont to \"pick up the soap.\" One of the things that I feal real uneasy about is that they wish to join all of the alternate media together. Most of the databases that I have seen of WE are located in a single location discussions.wellengaged.com which means that Utne isn't buying/leasing a piece of software but a whole package deal. Plus all of these sites are going to be located on the same huge oracle database. The potential for datamining is scary, especially since this is alternative media, and I can't see where the economic ad antage is in the switch unless it's for that reason. This is going to be the biggest crisis that Utne has faced and I don't think the community will survive, though there will always be a new stream of sheep to waunder through the place and read the ads. The discussion opened today in conference Cafe_Move for any that are interested in checking it out."}, {"response": 19, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (08:31)", "body": "Stand by for much wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth."}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (08:53)", "body": "Standing by."}, {"response": 21, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (18:55)", "body": "Lots of thrash going down over there. Lots of questions, very few acceptable answers."}, {"response": 22, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (00:33)", "body": "From what I've seen of the software it is going to promote very superficial conversations. You can't read offline, and if you try to go back to a previous page with the back button it refreshes on you so all you see is new posts. This means you either respond right away off the top of your head, or you keep a log book on your desk and write down where you want to go back to and respond. Not many people going to do the latter. But then again that's not much different than here at the Spring is it? I'm just so disapointed that Utne has turned out to be just another business. I can appreciate having to pay the rent and everything, but I always thought that alternative publications operated like nonprofits. They only wanted to make enough money to stay alive, and the only reason they wanted to stay alive was so they could provide opposition to the mainstream and/or provide alternatives to the mainstream. Becoming mainstream just seems like selling out. Remember that term? I had the impression when I first got there that Utne was going to use the cafe to provide some leadership and help coordinate an alternate movement. Nope, they discovered that there is profit to be made by soothing the guilt of boomers that have sold out. Wannabe activists that can't risk their jobs or lifestyles so they buy a magazine and prentend. Something I'd really like to see is Mother Jones running Motet. That crappy display one post at a time threaded system that I saw on their site was just so slow and painful that I couldn't tolerate it and from the looks of the little volume I wasn't the only one."}, {"response": 23, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (11:08)", "body": "I hear Utneans are unhappy about the switch to Well Engaged instead of Motet and that Bryan Higgins is quite peeved about being left out of the decision to abandon his Moteet software. It sounds olke the Engaged people lowballed Utne to gain a competitive advantage over Motet. Conferencing software wars? I know Barry was kicked off Utne, and he's here making a contribution. I haven't been there for a while so I don't have any first hand observations. I'd like to hear from more Utne folks about their experiences and how they feel about this autocratic decision to change their interface. You know the old \"if it ain't broke . . . \" saying. I'm a firm beliver in that. Especially when it comes to some folks community. I hope folks here are happy with Yapp but if they wanted something better we'd go to it. But it would have to spring from the community, bottom up no top down."}, {"response": 24, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (17:56)", "body": "I've left the Utne Cafe until we move to the new platform and then I'll go back and check it out and see if it will be any different than what I think it will be. I'm not going to spend any time and energy helping to make it work. My biggest complaint about the software is that it's structure discourages contemplative discussions. It promotes the shallow chat. This is probably good for the advertisers because I would imagine they would do better with impulse buyers than with people that think first. One of my complaints is that management started looking around at this last fall, which was the same time that the volunteer survey group started working. We put in a lot of time and grief on things that were made irrelevant and management watched us do it and didn't say a thing. It also looked like what most of the people were looking for wasn't something that was going to be achieved by a new piece of software. Many said please don't do anything that will slow down the software. I think this whole thing set back community building over in Utne. It will lose its sense of tradition and a lot of the old time members will move either move away or be lost in the maze. Small town community is being replaced with the transcience of the shopping mall."}, {"response": 25, "author": "moulton", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (18:27)", "body": "What set back community building was the adoption of in loco parentis instead of crafting a social contract community. The mission statement was watered down and is now a joke. I dunno who snookered who in the decision to drop Motet in favor of WE 3.0, but I am predicting disaster, both technical and social. By the way, Nan was amused that my sworn enemies are cordially chatting it up with me over there, not realizing that I am posting under a pseudonym. But what's really funny is to watch Kai trying to put the best spin on a turn of events that occured at a level beyond his control. He's clearly unhappy about it, but can't say so. Loyalty is big deal with Kai. He hasn't been in corporate America long enough to learn that loyalty to the corporation is a recipe for betrayal. Here Bryan was unceremoniously chucked after years of helpful service, and Kai marches on saluting and defending the generals who backstabbed Bryan."}, {"response": 26, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (20:18)", "body": "I cut back my Cafe participation drastically 15 months ago after Kai \"de-hosted\" me from Spirit, Philosophy and Media for no reason other than I was Barry's friend and cohort and, therefore, not to be trusted. Gotta run IRL -- will post more later."}, {"response": 27, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (23:27)", "body": "If the software is paid for, and the data is stored on a cluster of pentiums that are also paid for, and if all the labour is volunteer, then how much does it cost to run a virtual community? I'm thinking just the cost of a T1 line, or are there other expenses that I don't know about?"}, {"response": 28, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (12:17)", "body": "It costs us about $600-800 a month and folks are starting to be generous with contributions. And we're making money on our \"click throughs\". Did you know if you click through on the visto link at http://www.spring.net that the spring makes $2.00. If enough community members do that we can make it. It's hard, but not impossible to have a self supporting community. We're heading in that direction. But I clearly believe in bottom up decision making as opposed to imposing something on the members for the sake of advertisers."}, {"response": 29, "author": "ov", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (13:17)", "body": "Thanks for that info Terry. I wasn't aware that you made that much from the click throughs; I'll read a few adds and help you out. I suppose that once they have your ID# or whatever that further click throughs by the same person don't make any revenue difference. How often do I have to click through to maximize the amount of money that the Spring gets? With rates like what you quoted even $10 a year from each member would go a long way towards making a community pay for itself. When the option of user pay came up at the other site they didn't say how much it cost to run the place but replied by asking if people would be willing to pay as much as for there ISP. Well, $15-20 a month would be a bit much but that much per year probably wouldn't be objectionable. A few people have even mentioned that they wouldn't mind paying over at the other site provid d that they felt that they had some kind of say in how the community was run. The general tone over there is that anybody that questions how the cafe is run is an ungrateful SOB. Utne is spending all this money, etc, and that entitles them to do whatever they want, and we should just be thankful that we are allowed to post there. If it's costing them that much then maybe the problem is with how the money is managed, as in it shouldn't be costing that much. I also suspect that they are making some money off of their ads, those annoying blinking ads. It appears to me, that the economic bottom line, is that they are getting very cheap advertising for their magazine. They could probably finance the cafe for a couple of decades for the cost of a single national TV ad."}, {"response": 30, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (13:30)", "body": "Terry, could you please provide a basic break-out of where the $600-800 a month operating costs pay for here? Thanks."}, {"response": 31, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (16:02)", "body": "$400 ddc.net for website hosting our servers $150 SW Bell for isdn connection $250 hardware/software costs (conservative) add occasional consulting fees and other misc. costs"}, {"response": 32, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Sat, Sep 11, 1999 (18:18)", "body": "Thanks! I'm wondering if the software costs you refer to are associated with a monthly charge to use YAPP, or if your license to use it was a one-time cost like it is with Motet."}, {"response": 33, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (14:41)", "body": "I could run a Motet server on MuseNet for nothing more than the cost of the Motet license, which is $500. We've been running MuseNet for a decade now at essentially no cost. Our current fleet is mostly Sparc 2 machines. Motet runs fine on a Sparc 2."}, {"response": 34, "author": "ov", "date": "Sun, Sep 12, 1999 (16:36)", "body": "It's none of my business because this move is all about business. I think they better be careful about ever mentioning the word \"community\" again because too many people will tell them to blow their ass. But if this was a community then the financial balance sheet should be open for view. Any money spent on the Lens shouldn't be counted in with the cost of running the cafe. IMHO The biggest expense would probably be Kai's salary and if they quit their parental style of management, and their control freak tendancies, out of the equation he wouldn't be required at all. I still think that the economic bottom line is that Utne is getting pretty cheap advertising for their magazine. And if they are not then it is because they are managing it poorly. I see no reason that the alternative community has to be sold out because of their poor management."}, {"response": 35, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (09:58)", "body": "There is a glaring disconnect between the themes in the magazine and the cultural model of the Cafe, which follows a strict parental model, with Kai as the parent. I think that's the main reason there are so few academics left on Utne. Academics don't much care for oligarchies, Machiavellian control freaks, and algolagnic parent models."}, {"response": 36, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (10:46)", "body": "Too bad, because Utne is a great alternative mag, and that's such a huge advantage in building a vc (having a widespread print vehicle). It's like Whole Foods being able to put their web communities url on all their grocery bags. I sometimes speculate about the Spring aligning with a print publication. But who?"}, {"response": 37, "author": "ov", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (14:02)", "body": "I don't know what happened, but the feeling is gone and I don't think that I'll get it back. I've been in love with the cafe for a couple of years now and it is finally settling in that I was in love with my own projection and that it had no basis in reality. I don't know which is greater, my disapointment or my loss. Strange how you can lose something that you never had in the first place. I'm one of those people that think there is a battle for the net between those that want it to be a forum for communication and those that want it to be the ultimate home shopping channel. I am one of those fools that think that we are rapidly losing control of our world and that soon corporations will rule the world and we will all be unpaid employees. I also thought that the net and particularly forums like the cafe would serve as meeting places for those that wanted to have more of a say in how our world is developing and to excercise the democratic ideals. A place to counteract the atomization that makes each individual alone and powerless. A place where I could work with others on things that are just too big for any one individual. A place that would help me resist rather than accept the inevitable. I thought the purpose of alternative publications was to expose bullshit and provide important information that the mass media should be providing but isn't. I remember when investagative journalism like 60 Minutes used to cover significant issues like corrupt politicians and government scandal, but now it seems like the limit of their controversy is pointing out that there are dishonest auto mechanics. There used to be a time when the mass media showed at least some concern for the public welfare. So f the mass media won't take responsability then its up to the alternative media to take up the slack, and now I feel like they also have sold me down the river. I've spent a lot of time at the cafe because I was hoping to meet people and learn where they were coming from so that I would be better able to evaluate what they had to say. I was hoping that the people in the cafe would be a substitute for the talking heads on the TV, and be able to point out what was bullshit and what wasn't. It would take a lot of expensive people to provide this service, and the corporate sector sure isn't going to pay for it, but it could be done if we were doing it for ourselves and willing to do it for nothing. To me this just seemed like the logical next step in achieving the objectives of an alternative publication. I think that this is why I feel so betrayed. The salons were the last place on the net where people could come together and work as a group rather than being lone voices crying in the wilderness hoping their webpage would make a difference. Now all of the salons are coming under the control of the same business. Salon bought the Well, and they are both using Well Engaged, and now so is Utne. Even if they could get organized enough to go beyond insignificant chatter it would be simple enough to close the doors and shut it down. And then where wou d these people go. All of the alternative media is being bought out by the mainstream. What good does freedom of speech do if there is no place to speak. I've seen quite a few people in the cafe that also feel like this. They post passionately about significant things. I click on their bio and find out they have just been here for a few weeks. After a few months a don't see them anymore. I wonder where they go to, or if they just give up in disillusionment like myself. But for me the question remains, if the Utne Cafe isn't the type of place that I'm looking for then where do I go instead. I just can't believe that I am the only one that wants to help promote the alternative."}, {"response": 38, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (21:07)", "body": "I had hoped to form an Orenda Community, but I found, much to my chagrin and dismay, that I could not do so on the Well, on Utne, at E-Minds, at Brainstorms, at Flowering City, or at Community Intelligence Labs. Evidently an Orenda Community is just too threatening an idea for most Web site managers. I find an occasional like-minded soul here and there, but so far I have failed to bring us all together to work towards the goals of Orenda. I felt that Motet was the best conferencing software for the job, and we actually had a decent conference going at Flowering City Forum at U-Mass, until the site manager found himself emotionally overloaded and shut everything down."}, {"response": 39, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Mon, Sep 13, 1999 (23:09)", "body": "Ah, and don't forget there is an Orenda tribe still stumbling along on Yahoo, as well. I think perhaps the problem here on Spring is that the conference is private. Being public would bring a lot more visibility. (Were we private at Flowering Cities Forum? I can't remember...) I am inordinately fond of Motet, I admit. Can't be unbiased about it at all. For much of my cyberlife I've driven the equivalent of a Volkswagen on the info superhighway, and WellEngaged is a road hog that has crashed me enough times I'm wary of using it. Oh well. Moot now, at the Cafe."}, {"response": 40, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Sep 14, 1999 (08:19)", "body": "A private conference can easily be converted to a public one, if that is your desire. If that's what the host(s) and participants desire, that is."}, {"response": 41, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Sep 26, 1999 (08:50)", "body": ""}, {"response": 42, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Sun, Sep 26, 1999 (22:15)", "body": "oh? really?"}, {"response": 43, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (07:15)", "body": "The way grasshoppers signal danger is by going silent."}, {"response": 44, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (12:37)", "body": "Nan, listen to the man. He has something to say."}, {"response": 45, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Thu, Jul  6, 2000 (19:59)", "body": "This topic is public btw I havn't linked to it, or brought it to anyones attention, but it is word readable from the Net (without registering) Though you might want to know. Hi Terry! (if you don't know who I am, just ask Barry) heh Or about anyone these days. Anyone want to talk about MetaMatters?"}, {"response": 46, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Thu, Jul  6, 2000 (20:03)", "body": "Or Utne for that matter?"}, {"response": 47, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jul  7, 2000 (12:00)", "body": "All of the conferences but one are available using public rather than restricted in the URL. The only difference is in the public, one cannot post comments. Welcome to Spring. I will have to get out of Geo more and find out what Utne is all about before I can have an intelligent conversation about it with you. I do, rather, like This Virtual Community - mostly because it allowed me the ability to create Geo where I dwell"}, {"response": 48, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (00:10)", "body": "I was responding to: Topic 18 of 26 [vc]: Utne Cafe A private conference can easily be converted to a public one, if that is your desire. If that's what the host(s) and participants desire, that is. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Was this not public before? Was it changed?"}, {"response": 49, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (01:34)", "body": "Lots of things changed when we changed servers. Perhaps its lack of activity caused its privacy to be overlooked. I think this was one of the provate conferences..."}, {"response": 50, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (14:12)", "body": "It should be I imagine. Some of the information posted here could cause problems on Utne for the people here. This page is also listed on Yahoo."}, {"response": 51, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (15:29)", "body": "Then Terry should be notified. Shall I??? Or would you prefer to do so?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (16:18)", "body": "You please. I havn't talked to Terry in a loooong time. But the virtual kaka is hitting the fan again on Utne, and this is fuel for the flames."}, {"response": 53, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (16:55)", "body": "OK, emailing him immediatlely - sorry for the inconvenience. Aloha!"}, {"response": 54, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (17:45)", "body": "Aloha!"}, {"response": 55, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Jul 19, 2000 (23:57)", "body": "FX, it is still here..."}, {"response": 56, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:27)", "body": "and with all that nothing has changed, unfortunately, here! Fx, all I can do is try to contact the Terry again. However, he might have to unlink it with whereever it is linked - if it indeed is. One topic cannot be made private. it has to have conference status to do that. Check with Barry to see if there is an Utne Cafe elsewhere which is private. I see no sign of it here even where I can go. Sorry this is causing so much distress."}, {"response": 57, "author": "Farfnarf", "date": "Sat, Aug 19, 2000 (16:14)", "body": "Why's everybody saying \"aloha?\""}, {"response": 58, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Aug 20, 2000 (00:24)", "body": "Aloha Jerry! Because I live in Hawaii. I started it and it is very contagious, I guess. Sorry!"}, {"response": 59, "author": "Farfnarf", "date": "Tue, Aug 22, 2000 (22:11)", "body": "No, I like it. :O) Just curious. But now I'm jealous, I live in Nebraska."}, {"response": 60, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Aug 22, 2000 (23:03)", "body": ""}, {"response": 61, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Tue, Aug 22, 2000 (23:06)", "body": "Nebraska has virutes surely. Like tornadoes. We have live a volcano erupting as we speak, new land being created, new topography, too. We also have more than our share of Earth Quakes, and an occasional tsunami. But, no snakes in Paradise. Lovely little secluded beaches from which you can watch the eruption and check the skies where the stars hang just out of reach... Aloha, Jerry! All one needs is the right person with which to share all of this beauty..."}, {"response": 62, "author": "Farfnarf", "date": "Thu, Aug 24, 2000 (21:37)", "body": "..you've got me dreaming.."}, {"response": 63, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Aug 24, 2000 (22:45)", "body": "I could tell you of this little secluded black sand beach... sky so clear that you can reach out and touch stars... Listen to the whales sleeping just off shore... Surging surf on the sand rhythmically subtle... Molten gold lava snaking its way to the sea on a background of black velvet..."}, {"response": 64, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Aug 24, 2000 (22:46)", "body": "It is a place to share with someone very special...*sigh* vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 19, "subject": "David Woolley's world of web conferencing and vc's", "response_count": 15, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, May  9, 1999 (22:47)", "body": "David Woolley ( mailto://drwool@well.com ) Fri Apr 30 '99 I recently created a bibliography of books about online community, virtual teams, and cyberculture. I haven't tried to comprehensively cover everything about this subject because that would just be too much; rather I've focused mainly on books that would interest people who either want to build an online community or use online conferencing as a tool for collaborative workgroups. I'd appreciate comments and suggestions. http://thinkofit.com/webconf/wcbooks.htm"}, {"response": 2, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Jul 12, 1999 (10:13)", "body": "It's an excellent resource, David. Thank you."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jul 12, 1999 (11:23)", "body": "What online vc's have you experienced or heard about, Barry?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "moulton", "date": "Wed, Jul 14, 1999 (10:08)", "body": "I joined The Well in 1992 and still participate there. I joined E-Minds shortly after it was founded. The site overloaded my older, slower machines, so I didn't visit very often. In the meantime, it's changed hands and been revamped twice. I now visit it more often. I joined Cafe Utne a few years ago and participated until last summer, when the system manager summarily ejected me. I joined Brainstorms and participated there for a while until my detractors from Cafe Utne followed me there and created a ruckus. Whereupon Howard canceled my account. I joined CoIL (Community Intelligence Labs) and participated there until the site discontinued its public forums. The ones I had been active in moved to CommunityWare (the same site that hosted E-Minds). CommunityWare is now Webb Net. I joined Netscape's Forums, but they too, were recently scaled back. I participate in a few Yahoo Clubs, but I frankly despise their software. It only shows one post at a time, so there is no context, and it takes anywhere from 10 seconds to a minute to load a page. It's virtually impossible to catch up if one is more than a few days behind in a busy club. I installed Motet on a server in the Community Outreach Lab at U-Mass Lowell for their Flowering City Forum, and used it extensively. But that site is dark for the summer, as the lone professor who runs the C-Lab found it was more than he could handle with his limited budget and staffing. The MuseNet-K12 site which I launched in 1990 is still in operation. It runs a Muse, but does not yet have conferencing software like YAPP or Motet. I may install Motet on it, if we can raise the $500 it costs for a license. I'd prefer to install Motet so that we can revive the conferences from the C-Lab at U-Mass. As far as conferencing software goes, I like Motet and Engaged. Front Porch isn't bad, but it's slow. On the other hand, Front Porch has a decent search engine."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 15, 1999 (18:39)", "body": "Feel free to start a conference here for your own purposes if you like Barry. It's been done a lot. And you don't have to fear persecution, though I'm sure you'll get poked and jabbed a bit. It looks like only a few conferencing systems have \"staying power\" and it looks like some of these sytems had too lofty expectations. We're small, but we've managed to stick around as a volunteer system. You know that old Grateful Dead song lyric \"Wherever he goes the people all complain\" may have been a reference to the hippie guru Stephen Gaskin whose style offended some but who was one of the great communicators and thinkers of our generation. Is that syndrome perhaps tagging you some? And perhaps some of those systems goals were too \"pie in the sky\"?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Jul 15, 1999 (22:09)", "body": "I'm not familiar with Stephen Gaskin, so I can't say whether his model resembles mine. My style is heavily laden with logic, which evidently annoys some people, who prefer emotional free associations without any scientifically supportable cause and effect linkages. I suspect the complaints are disingenuous and thinly disguised attempts to goad me into solving other peoples' long-suffering neuroses. Occasionally I manage to do that, which is why I harbor that theory. Do I have license to start a whole conference here? Or is that something the site administrator has to do?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jul 15, 1999 (22:14)", "body": "I can do it, or can do it, under your guidance. Just let us know what name you call it (prerable one short as possible word) and then we can set you up as host. You can have a shell account if you want one."}, {"response": 8, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Jul 15, 1999 (22:41)", "body": "It would be The Orenda Project. I don't think I need a shell account, unless that is necessary for some maintenance functions that can't be done via the Web interface. If Moonbeam (Nan Williams) has registered, she would be my co-host. Nan and I are writing a book together, and we share respsonsibilities on all our community networking activities. None of the screens I've been on so far seem to have a Create Conference button. Perhaps that is an Admin function? Motet was like that. Only the Motet Admin could create a new conference. I'm also waiting for Nan to show up here. She said she logged in yesterday, but didn't get a posting box. I was unable to figure out why not. Once Nan is here, we will invite the others from the Orenda Project to meet us."}, {"response": 9, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (00:31)", "body": "I'm here now! :) Love the software -- it doesn't overload my laptop and I can breeze along at an almost snappy pace. What a delight!"}, {"response": 10, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (01:32)", "body": "Greetings David. Just got here myself. Is this your software, or are you just hanging out here as well. At first glance it seems fine. A little spoiled by Motet but then I know how to use all of the features there. I'm in full agreement with Barry on Yahoo. This one post at a time, slow loading, and you can't read offline. Just didn't have the patience for it. Though I like the concept of a threaded mode, I don't see why you can't have both in one. Click of a button and it pops into threaded mode. I'm a big fan of outliner mode myself. Back in the summer of '89 I had a prototype for a distributed hypertext system based on an outline format. Outline was the primary organizational mode but it contained links as well. Collapsable headings that retained memory of the underlying shape and I had it about 6 years before MicroCrap came out with it. It was a heady time the first time I visualized the web and thought that it was my idea. Sigh. The one that got away. Is this whole site fairly new? I'll probably check in here once every few days for awhile. Catch you later."}, {"response": 11, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (03:18)", "body": "I can set you up a conference entitled Orenda because the conference name can't have any spaces in it...and setting the two of you up as hosts would be no problem, either...would you want it to be a private conference? and as to the maintenance, you can do most of it from the web and ask Terry or I to do the rest, or like Terry said, we can set you up a shell account... and welcome, Nan and Robert!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (06:44)", "body": "We're not that new. We just had our 10th anniversery last March 20th, and we've been on the web for 5 years now."}, {"response": 13, "author": "moulton", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (11:18)", "body": "\"Orenda\" sounds fine! I guess it wouldn't hurt to have a shell account, if there are some maintenance tasks that are more easily accomplished that way. On Motet, since there wasn't a search feature, I occasionally had to \"grep\" for stuff that I had lost track of. Orenda would be a social contract conference, so perhaps it should be private, and we can use topic #20 in VC to invite people in. Is it possible to change between public and private, the way it is on Motet?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (20:04)", "body": "You can have a private and a public conference and you can change them any time if you want. I emailed you info on your shell account to your well email address earlier today. You need to set your password and run webuser."}, {"response": 15, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sat, Jul 17, 1999 (09:27)", "body": "Thanks! vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 2, "subject": "The Spring as a community", "response_count": 10, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Oct 10, 1997 (05:59)", "body": "Uh, maybe I could not wait so long between postings? Actually, I finally have a computer so I should be able to post more often. Yippee, WER"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Oct 11, 1997 (19:05)", "body": "Great news, WER!"}, {"response": 3, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Oct 15, 1997 (00:21)", "body": "The best things in life are nearest: in your nostrils. WER"}, {"response": 4, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (05:44)", "body": "Is the Spring a community? If so, which communitarian aspects does it simulate and which does it thumb its nose at?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "stacey", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (09:21)", "body": "Well, Mike, we're more into stimulating than simulating and we don't thumb our noses at anyone (but sometimes we pick them)."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (11:19)", "body": "She's right ya know. We're working on it. On being a community. There are some meager rules on the main page, nothing beyond common sense and courtesy."}, {"response": 7, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (21:38)", "body": "I'm not quite sure what you're asking, Mike. Could you go into a bit more detail? WER"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov  6, 1997 (07:53)", "body": "Did I ever mention about how the Spring got started? It started probably with my early exposure to the EIES network and to the WELL in the early days. I remember hitching a ride with fig to the offices of the Whole Earth Software Review where fig was an r:base programmer and looking through the software archives. Cliff turned me on to a copy of Appleworks (which was then a beta) to review and I installed it on my Apple //e and started logging in to the early WELL. I was living in Bolinas on the mesa at the time with Gail Moss and we used to go over to Cliff and Anitas house and hung out and talked about computers and online community some. I had been a \"Farmie\" for a while like fig and I had some ideals about community building. I had been an urban planner for a number of years also. I thought that it would be cool to start up a community like this in Austin some day. Eventually I did make it back to Austin and started the Spring dialup bbs around the mid 80s. And three years ago we broke it out on the net like I was saying. But I'm getting ahead of the question now."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 19, 1999 (13:12)", "body": "http://www.salonmagazine.com/21st/feature/1999/01/cov_19feature.html is a good article on the meaning and misuse of online \"community\" - - - - - - - - t h e r e_.g o e s_.t h e ___neighborhood ARE COMPANIES LIKE GEOCITIES TRULY \"BUILDING COMMUNITIES\" -- OR JUST PLASTERING ADS ON INCOMPLETE, OUT-OF-DATE WEB PAGES? BY JANELLE BROWN | Welcome to my home at GeoCities. I live at 9258 Fashion Avenue, in a neighborhood appropriately called Salon. I moved in here earlier last week because I was told that \"Design, Beauty and Glamour are the toast of Fashion Avenue,\" but so far there's not a whiff of glamour to be seen -- my neighborhood is a ghost town of hundreds of empty pages, half-started Web sites and vacant lots; only a handful of the members seem to be at all interested in fashion. I suppose my bare-bones Web page is no better. GeoCities may call itself the \"largest and fastest growing community of personal Web sites on the Internet,\" but there's no community to be found in my neighborhood. \"Community\" is quite possibly the most over-used word in the Net industry. True community -- the ability to connect with people who have similar interests -- may well be the key to the digital world, but the term has been diluted and debased to describe even the most tenuous connections, the most minimal interactivity. The presence of a bulletin board with a few posts, or a chat room with some teens swapping age/sex information, or a home page with an e-mail address, does not mean that people are forming anything worthy of the name community. Nowhere is this more apparent than on the free Web page services -- sites like GeoCities or theglobe.com that give away free Web space and then sell ad space based on the traffic that \"user-generated content\" attracts. Such companies have been the darlings of Wall Street over the past year. But it remains to be seen if they can preserve the cozy promises of community that they've made to their constituency with the lavish promises of profits that they've had to make to their investors and shareholders. Free Web page services are one of the fastest growing sectors of the Web industry, enabling any person with Net access to slap up a Web site using simple tools. You can choose from scores of services: Not only the granddaddies like GeoCities, Angelfire, Tripod, theglobe.com and Xoom, but smaller services like FreeYellow, FortuneCity, Nettaxi and Homestead. You can even create a home page at your favorite portal; all they ask is that they be allowed to put ads on your page. Undoubtedly, you've visited one of these services at some point -- whether you are a member of one of them yourself (together, the top seven services boast more than 20 million members) or have simply stopped by one of the member pages (GeoCities' member pages alone claim 8 percent of the content on the Web). If you haven't visited one, perhaps you've invested in them instead: Xoom, GeoCities and theglobe.com had three of the hottest initial public stock offerings of 1998, and Lycos picked up Tripod for $58 million, which it now runs along with the previously acquired Angelfire. These companies have ambitiously promoted their \"communities,\" boasting of their astronomical numbers of members and interactive interest groups. But there's a breakdown between what's being hyped and what's actually happening at these sites: Few of the members actually seem to be communicating with one another. Most people, it seems, just want a place to slap up a picture of their cat. And there's more. This is an excerpt."}, {"response": 10, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Jan 20, 1999 (22:48)", "body": "can't disagree with her... vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 20, "subject": "The Orenda Project", "response_count": 149, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Thu, Jul 15, 1999 (12:51)", "body": "Thanks Moulton! Hope to see everyone here soon. I have a full day ahead of me. (Dawnis is seen waving as she runs out the door."}, {"response": 2, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Jul 15, 1999 (17:16)", "body": "A Thousand Clowns by Moulton and Moonbeam Chapter 1 A Tale of Two Fools Once upon a time there were two fools. No one knew if they were lovers or rivals because the subtext analysis was just too damn subtle even for Moulton to figure out. They dressed as clowns. One wore an Emmett Kelley face, with a single tear running down her cheek. No one knew what the other clown looked like cuz he never sat still long enough for anyone to get a bead on him. Mebbe he looked like Zippy the Pinhead, but in this business costume changes are a dime a dozen. Anyway, he was manic as hellmouth, running hither and yon, honking his horn like there was no tomorrow. Well, actually, no one was sure if there was gonna be a tomorrow. The yesterdays had been getting grimmer and grimmer by the century. Nobody was laughing much anymore because the whole land was being laid waste by a rising tide of parody. Everyone wanted parity. And so parody was ratcheting up, tackling more and more sensitive subjects, in search of ever new material. The people dissed everyone, all the way from the President of the United States down to the lowliest nerds at Slashdot. No one was safe from dissing. There were just two things that had not yet been parodied in the wicked culture of comedy. One was the Big War and the other was the Little War. The Big Boys fought in the Big War and the little kids fought in the little war, which was so little it was practically invisible. They called it the Chilly War, because everybody was trying to chill out everyone else. It wasn't working. It was worse than Narnia under the Ice Queen. You know -- the one with those insufferable Turkish Delights. Anyway, the two fools (or clowns if you didn't look past their makeup) decided that they would start a Battle of Mirth on Earth, enlisting 1000 clowns to join the fray. Chapter 2 Here Comes the Judge The two fools opened the Mirthful Circus and began their act, which they hadn't written yet, so neither of them knew what the other was doing. One fool wore an Emmett Kelley costume with a single tear. She reflected the sadness of the world. The other looked like Zippy the Pinhead, running around like a maniac, making merry. All of a sudden, Emmett stopped moving. Eventually Zippy noticed the lifeless body of Emmett and began to panic. Poor Emmett was dying of a broken heart. So Zippy got out his Resurrection Kit and the Jumper Tubes and feverishly began pumping heart juices from his heart to hers. But it was too late. Suddenly there were sirens blaring everywhere. The Keystone Cops arrived and made a big fuss. Chaos and confusion. They hauled poor Zippy off to the Jail of Bad Souls. Well you know what happened next. Zippy was brought before the judge. A very stern (and ugly) dood. \"What were you doing?\" he thundered. \"Just playing. I didn't mean to hurt her.\" \"He did it intentionally! He's out of control! We can't allow this kind of disruption!\" the prosecutor roared. \"Why did you kill her?\" the prosecutor pounded. \"Yes, why did you kill her?\" the crowd roared. Over and over the questions came. Zippy stood frightened and mute, for he simply didn't know how to respond. Chapter 3 Interminable Introspection If he could have seen Emmett's face, Zippy might have a clue. Meantime, unbeknownst to Zippy, Emmett, quite alive but apparently invisible to those who don't suffer fools gladly, rides around the peanut gallery on her unicycle, sailing paper airplanes made from Really Bad Student Papers at the Geek Chorus while eating salted peanuts. Poor Emmett, lonely and sad. She is oblivious of Zippy's predicament in the Jail of Bad Souls, facing the interlocutors, unable to answer the question, \"Why did you break Emmett's heart?\" Do you suppose Zippy has any qualms about answering that? In one version, he could say he has qualms about that and would prefer to mourn his loss in peace. But if justice must be served, then Zippy will lose his freedom, become nauseous, disgusted and enraged at injustice, and commit violence, breaking the peace he was denied at the bar of justice. Only Zippy could say whether he has any qualms, and what anxiety has produced them. Emmett, unable to read minds, has no idea why Zippy has summoned the Keystone Cops and consigned himself to the Jail of Bad Souls. Once upon a time, Emmett used to follow Zippy when he went into dark caves. She brought a candle to light her way and help them both find the exits. But you know how dark caves are -- they're pitch black! And because the dark was so complete, Zippy saw the candle light as tractor beams and said it hurt his eyes, and ran deeper into his cave. What should Emmett do next? She has no clue. So she rides her unicycle and stays close by, watching for one. But what if Zippy doesn't even know that the funny feeling in his stomach is called a qualm, or what it means to mourn? What if the way Zippy learned language was to form sentences as complete thoughts? Here is a case where Zippy has no thought to express, and does"}, {"response": 3, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Thu, Jul 15, 1999 (18:11)", "body": "(((((((((((Emmett)))))))) Can I help?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Thu, Jul 15, 1999 (23:58)", "body": "(((((((((Dawnis))))))))) Tonight I have a box to type in, so things are looking up."}, {"response": 5, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (01:19)", "body": "Well, when they said send in the clowns you did a good job of it. Were you thinking of anybody in particular with the control freaks in the peanut gallery? Hi Nan. Or should I say Emmett. Are you looking for a fool to do battle for you?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (01:55)", "body": "Are you volunteering? ;) Got peanuts?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (03:20)", "body": "Was I summoned?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (06:44)", "body": "We've got boxes for you to type in, Emmitt!"}, {"response": 9, "author": "moulton", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (11:21)", "body": "Heh. The Control Freaks know who they are. They're the ones who keep telling me not to document what they are doing. :)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (11:43)", "body": "Oh good, a KitchenManager! Do you always have plenty of peanuts and popcorn? How about chocolate? I'm good at soup. Nifty boxes here, Terry. ;)"}, {"response": 11, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (12:55)", "body": "Yes Nan I think I am. Haven't checked yet what kind of heat I'll be getting in the private Survey conference on opening that latest topic on censorship of comments but I just have this feeling that there will be a big uproar and I will be made to look like the cause of it. Fine. I had an alcoholic father that used that same trick all the time, and I'm just not going to put up with it anymore. But if you can't handle the heat then you shouldn't be Ov D'Ark."}, {"response": 12, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (13:30)", "body": "You go, ov!! ;) I'll fan the flames for ya."}, {"response": 13, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (13:36)", "body": "OTOH, I just read your latest post over there and R*'s response to it. Maybe you won't need anybody blowing on the kindling, eh?"}, {"response": 14, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (14:01)", "body": "That surpised me as well. I just have this feeling though that it is going to be a majority rule, and the majority says we don't want to be subjected to thinking about anything that might make us uncomfortable. We're just here to take a little break from our corporate jobs and have a latte and enjoy the consumerist life style. I think that everybody that cares about the same things as I do has already left. I hope they haven't gotten too much of a head start or I'll never find them or catch up to where they are going."}, {"response": 15, "author": "moulton", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (14:37)", "body": "I propose opening a new topic in Cafe_Future for patrons who wrote comments to voluntarily post their own comments. I would even re-register to do that, or let you or Nan post them for me. Or I would post them on my Web site and let either of you post the URL. The Survey Team might not agree it has the license, but the individuals certainly have the right to post their own comments under their own names."}, {"response": 16, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (14:53)", "body": "We could post our own comments. Nothing stopping us there. A concern of mine is that only 35 people have posted in there and a third of them are from the survey team. Its been open for a week so that's enough time for any that are interested to jump in. Bottom line is, that nobody cares. Either that, or all those that care have already left because they got tired of flogging a dead horse. Great potential can only keep a person hanging on for so long."}, {"response": 17, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Fri, Jul 16, 1999 (17:40)", "body": "I think you're right about the interest level, Robert. Too bad. :("}, {"response": 18, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sat, Jul 17, 1999 (09:31)", "body": "Those who care have to run the gauntlet. It takes a certain amount of fortitude to take the flak. It's easy to see why most people (69,000 of them) would just give up without trying. What's left is Gog and Magog."}, {"response": 19, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Mon, Jul 19, 1999 (02:03)", "body": "OV you sound like our kind of people. Moonbeam, Mouton, and the Orenda group are all people who jump up and down like rodeo clowns trying to distract the bull so the rider can get away."}, {"response": 20, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Mon, Jul 19, 1999 (02:31)", "body": "Ov Thought you might like this poem I posted at Utne in the ongoing poetry contest. Indifference In the absence of the sacred, psyche dwindles amidst separatist death control. Slanderers sanction violence roundabout in their words, carry kindness like a burden on their backs in a confused reality. Clear puddles sleep in the dust of domination and deceit passed on as norms. Homespun integration of past swims beyond original blessing. It is noon in this lost paradise, Fall has arrived frantic and wild, brimming with desecration of land, annihilation of spirit, among the charred ruins... as \"Philosopher Kings\" bandy words."}, {"response": 21, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Jul 19, 1999 (19:04)", "body": "NASA asked me how I would design a guidance control system for a Mars shot. \"No problem,\" I say. \"Here's my plan. We'll let the rocket do whatever it likes until it gets too far off course. Then we'll damage the rocket. That will teach it.\" Um. I didn't get the job. NASA decided to hire somebody who knew a little more about systems theory. Next I interviewed with the Coast Guard. They were concerned that some of the waves out there on the ocean were just a little too big for comfort. \"No problem,\" I say. \"Here's my plan. We'll pass a law saying that no wave shall be any higher than 5 feet. We'll send out patrols. Any wave over 5 feet, we'll take a big paddle and *WHOMP* it to flatten it out. That should do the trick.\" The Admiral asked me if I'd ever taken a course in Physics. \"Physics?\" I asked. \"What's Physics?\" He raised his eyebrows. I didn't get the job. I don't get it. What's wrong with my brilliant thinking?"}, {"response": 22, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Jul 19, 1999 (23:51)", "body": "Apparently the same thing that is wrong with mine..."}, {"response": 23, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (03:00)", "body": "Brilliant thinking got lost in the think tanks which perpetuate the myth of crime and punishment. Beat that child into submission then he will respect you. Lock that criminal up in jail disregard the fact that when he comes out he won't be rehabilitated but he will have a PhD in crime. Disregard fact that the money it takes to lock him up for the amount of time would have taken him to get a real PhD...would have paid for his education at Harvard. Which would you rather have? A man on the streets with a PhD in Crime or a PhD from Harvard? All together now......A PhD from....... Give me a paddle Mouton I want to join the world and beat the crap out of waves that exceed the height regulations...It beats trying to wake up the zoombies of the world.....zzzzzz"}, {"response": 24, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (03:02)", "body": "One more time....which would you rather have? A PhD from.........."}, {"response": 25, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (03:15)", "body": "Quo Vardis Where have you been restless ape a thousand centuries out of Africa ? Dont you recall ? Youve wrapped yourself around the Earth a half a dozen times. The memories have faded now but the journey is written in your language and your genes. Deserts,mountains,jungles all have felt your passing and everywhere youve wandered death has walked with you. For the sake of an easy hunt and a lazy meal how many species have gone down to extinction ? Its an old sad story killer ape . Your noble savage ravaged quite efficiently with lance and bow millenia before the buffalo rifle and the elephant gun. What have you seen curious ape five million years down from the trees ? Your instruments have reached to the edge of forever and recorded creations afterglow. Your electronic eyes have framed the atoms themselves. And every night in every home your magic box brings images of killing fields and shallow graves and Africas starving children. You have seen wonderful things little ape and all the colours of darkness. What have you learned clever ape five million years down from the trees ? You have numbered the stars in the sky and the fish in the sea. To heat your homes and turn your wheels youve kindled sunfire and poisoned anothers child a half a world away. For the sake of cheap food for a few youve played with biological fire and poisoned your own children. You play with pebbles on the beach of knowledge. Sometimes inspiration piles three or four together and hubris speaks of grand and unified theories. Yet all around a myriad pebbles lie in natural harmony their unity unseen. And down the beach an ocean of possibilites lies shimmering with potential.......unvisited. You must learn to swim little ape and soon. What do you believe ethical ape five million years down from the trees ? Do you still follow priest and shaman ; thieves of the spirit and the mind ? You no longer sacrifice your children in bloody ritual merely reason. For the sake of tribal cohesion you propagate planetary polarisation. A prophet points his finger and a host of crazed fanatics fall upon their neighbours. Its time to grow up little ape ; cast out your demons. If you must have magic look around you. Theres more magic in a forrest glade or a mountain meadow than a thousand wizards can conjure. The only reality is existence. If you must have purpose take hold and shape your own. How do you govern communal ape five million years down from the trees ? You presume to order the affairs of a planet when you cannot order your own. You presume to control a world with a gaggle of third rate village elders. You celebrate the failure of the Marxist experiment. You revel in the triumph of the Free Market. Be careful simple ape for the Market has many dynamics including chaos and collapse. Your world is caught now in a tightening web of information and instant action. If the wrong thread breaks and the wrong card falls all may fall. Individuals are sentient not systems ; yet systems generate powerful currents which flow beyond your ken. You could be swept away like Rome and Babylon. Look to the bees of the air and the ants in the fields. Understand their patterns and flows for they are your patterns too. Like all life emergence is your destiny not individual human intellect nor individual human will. Where are you going restless ape a thousand centuries out of Africa ? You have left your dusty footprints on your sister world. Your robot proxies have sent back picture post cards from all the Sun\ufffd"}, {"response": 26, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (03:15)", "body": "Quo Vardis Where have you been restless ape a thousand centuries out of Africa ? Dont you recall ? Youve wrapped yourself around the Earth a half a dozen times. The memories have faded now but the journey is written in your language and your genes. Deserts,mountains,jungles all have felt your passing and everywhere youve wandered death has walked with you. For the sake of an easy hunt and a lazy meal how many species have gone down to extinction ? Its an old sad story killer ape . Your noble savage ravaged quite efficiently with lance and bow millenia before the buffalo rifle and the elephant gun. What have you seen curious ape five million years down from the trees ? Your instruments have reached to the edge of forever and recorded creations afterglow. Your electronic eyes have framed the atoms themselves. And every night in every home your magic box brings images of killing fields and shallow graves and Africas starving children. You have seen wonderful things little ape and all the colours of darkness. What have you learned clever ape five million years down from the trees ? You have numbered the stars in the sky and the fish in the sea. To heat your homes and turn your wheels youve kindled sunfire and poisoned anothers child a half a world away. For the sake of cheap food for a few youve played with biological fire and poisoned your own children. You play with pebbles on the beach of knowledge. Sometimes inspiration piles three or four together and hubris speaks of grand and unified theories. Yet all around a myriad pebbles lie in natural harmony their unity unseen. And down the beach an ocean of possibilites lies shimmering with potential.......unvisited. You must learn to swim little ape and soon. What do you believe ethical ape five million years down from the trees ? Do you still follow priest and shaman ; thieves of the spirit and the mind ? You no longer sacrifice your children in bloody ritual merely reason. For the sake of tribal cohesion you propagate planetary polarisation. A prophet points his finger and a host of crazed fanatics fall upon their neighbours. Its time to grow up little ape ; cast out your demons. If you must have magic look around you. Theres more magic in a forrest glade or a mountain meadow than a thousand wizards can conjure. The only reality is existence. If you must have purpose take hold and shape your own. How do you govern communal ape five million years down from the trees ? You presume to order the affairs of a planet when you cannot order your own. You presume to control a world with a gaggle of third rate village elders. You celebrate the failure of the Marxist experiment. You revel in the triumph of the Free Market. Be careful simple ape for the Market has many dynamics including chaos and collapse. Your world is caught now in a tightening web of information and instant action. If the wrong thread breaks and the wrong card falls all may fall. Individuals are sentient not systems ; yet systems generate powerful currents which flow beyond your ken. You could be swept away like Rome and Babylon. Look to the bees of the air and the ants in the fields. Understand their patterns and flows for they are your patterns too. Like all life emergence is your destiny not individual human intellect nor individual human will. Where are you going restless ape a thousand centuries out of Africa ? You have left your dusty footprints on your sister world. Your robot proxies have sent back picture post cards from all the Suns children. And now your instruments have watched the dance of many worlds around other sunlike stars. And when you go there little ape will death or wisdom walk with you ? Can you hope to commune with other minds when you do not know your own ? Can you live in harmony with others when you cannot tolerate youself ? Be careful killer ape the gentle peoples in the stars may share your nature. Perhaps it would be safer to stay home and walk the twisted highways of your heart and mind for a little longer yet. There are sparks of promise in the darkness protean ape perhaps your luck will hold. Perhaps your luck will hold."}, {"response": 27, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (03:20)", "body": "Sorry about the double post...I thought the first one didn't even go through."}, {"response": 28, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (11:31)", "body": "Who is this Vardis person, Debra? Alexander Resident ***Censored, Because, Uh, Dunno***, The Spring"}, {"response": 29, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (11:37)", "body": "Oh. Barry, I wanted to look a some of the links you posted, but couldn't find either the Spirit nor the Philosophy confs at Caf\ufffd Utne. Huh? Alexander Resident ***Censored, Because I'm Being Denied My Human Right To A Latt\ufffd***, The Spring"}, {"response": 30, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (12:28)", "body": "Both conferences are there still, Alexander. I used to host them. Utne recently changed the Cafe server -- go to cafe.utne.com, enter (or register), and click the \"list all conferences\" button. You should see them."}, {"response": 31, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (12:35)", "body": "Alexander...I don't know...I can ask my friend who sent it to me. I just think it is beautiful and expresses the situation we, as humans, are now facing. Utne is there, in it's full glory, I just went in and checked the poetry section. ((((((Moonbeam)))))) Did you get my last post, last night? Did my magic dust stir up your muses?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (15:24)", "body": "Alexander It was written by Dave Greg, December 1998."}, {"response": 33, "author": "moulton", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (16:40)", "body": "Oops. Yah. Cafe Utne switched servers... * The Joy Project at Cafe Utne, http://cafe.utne.com/motet/bin/topic?Spirit+124"}, {"response": 34, "author": "moulton", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (16:54)", "body": "I'll opt for Stanford, Dawnis. :) NPR is running a story even as I type this in of the MIT engineers who worked on the guidance system for NASA's moon landing. I'm so used to hanging around people who grok guidance and control theory that it's hard to conceive of responsible people in our society who never heard of systems theory or control theory. The Stanford scholar who developed the system model of conflict and violence in our culture began by studying Dostoevsky -- Crime and Punishment and The Brothers Karamazov. Fyodor Dostevsky crafted a literary model that was so transparent, Professor Girard was able to abstract out the elements of the underlying model. It's like Newton's Laws or Maxwell's Equations. A brilliantly compact formula that fits on a page, and from which all the drama in history, literature, and scriptures can be derived. The moon shot relied on telecommunication (an application of Maxwell's Theory) and propulsion and guidance (a derivative of Newton's Laws). Now we have a similar model for the human drama and conflict. It's hard to imagine all the insights that will flow from this new system model. But I can already envision a few."}, {"response": 35, "author": "moulton", "date": "Tue, Jul 20, 1999 (17:00)", "body": "Here is another shot at discovering the laws of human dynamics from our good friend, Deepak Snopak... http://www.sdaine.com/spirit/s-chopra.html#laws"}, {"response": 36, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Wed, Jul 21, 1999 (01:18)", "body": "Oh, Debra -- was THAT what gave me such a whopping allergy attack? Your magic dust? Yoikes... it stirred up something in me, but not my muses. ;)"}, {"response": 37, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Wed, Jul 21, 1999 (14:37)", "body": "(Dawnis is deflated) Did I pull out the wrong dust again? (sigh) Age has it's good points and it's bad points...and brain farts seem to be one of the lesser attractive things that go along with it."}, {"response": 38, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Wed, Jul 21, 1999 (15:02)", "body": "* Moonbeam re-inflates Dawnis * Don't take it personally, please. I'm just having a long, long, hot summer in which I haven't been hugged or loved or cherished by a real human being for a long, long time -- and I'm beginning to think that my need for such physical contact constitutes a character flaw or weakness; I can't find anyone else who seems bothered by such lacks."}, {"response": 39, "author": "moulton", "date": "Wed, Jul 21, 1999 (20:03)", "body": "My Thumminator must be on the fritz again."}, {"response": 40, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Jul 22, 1999 (09:18)", "body": "Karl Schulmeisters loves ideas. He loves to discuss, explore, compare, and contrast ideas. And he loves to do it on a site that bills itself as \"a dynamic and evolving community where it is our goal to discuss ideas & issues in a thoughtful and respectful manner!\" Karl Schulmeisters is a tough cookie. If you're gonna discuss ideas with him, you'd better be prepared to lay out a cogent line of reasoning. Sloppy thinking won't get you very far with Karl. He's one of many \"Olympic Class\" thinkers who e joy taking their brain out for a spin on sites like Cafe Utne. Meantime, over in China, something very interesting is going on. According to a story in today's New York Times, the Chinese Government in Beijing is expected to announce a nationwide ban against a movement, called Buddhist Law (also known as Falun Gong). The independent daily newspaper Sing Tao quoted the Government directive as saying the group had \"engaged in superstition and disrupted public order, thereby damaging social stability.\" The full story is at: http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/asia/072299china-protest.html The allegation of \"disruption\" is one I hear a lot. But novel ideas are often \"disruptive\" as they can lead to new thinking and a change in practices. For a community that professes to be \"evolving\" it would be difficult to host consideration of innovative ideas without some people feeling disrupted. According to the NY Times story, Li Hongzhi, 48, is a former grain bureau clerk now living in the US who founded Falun Gong in 1992 as \"a fusion of the ancient Chinese practice of qigong -- the channeling of vital energies through breathing exercises -- with elements of Buddhism and Taoism.\" He now relies heavily on the Internet to communicate his ideas. A central practice of Falun Gong is a breathing meditation. Thich Nhat Hanh and Deepak Chopra have also published guides to breathing meditation. I have a like-minded colleague who regularly sits Zazen with a small group. And I've been exploring breathing meditations myself. I never realized how alarming that is to authority figures. I'd better watch my step, er.. breath."}, {"response": 41, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Thu, Jul 22, 1999 (10:54)", "body": "((((((((((((Moonbeam))))))) You are not alone. I have been going through the same thing for months. Most of the time I am fine and very self contained...but then there are times when I feel like if I don't find someone I will go nuts. The problem is always finding a male who isn't so damaged that the hugs aren't worth the chaos they add to the mix. (sigh)"}, {"response": 42, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Thu, Jul 22, 1999 (11:17)", "body": "thank you for that, debra. i am too stirred up to be of any use to anyone right now."}, {"response": 43, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Jul 22, 1999 (11:59)", "body": "The neat thing about Chaos Theory is that it is actually possible to unstir the pot. But ya gotta do it right. It's like getting out of the Labyrinth. The method is called Backtracking. :)"}, {"response": 44, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Thu, Jul 22, 1999 (23:44)", "body": "(((((Moonbeam))))))Is there anything I can do to help? (Dwnis wraps a warm Navajo Blanket around Moonbeam and lights sage.) I was up by Chama today and passed Ojo Caliente (sp?) I thought of you. Was wishing you were there too. We went to Ghost Ranch to see the dinosuars they dug up there. Dotty is studying Paleontology so we did the drive through the Jemez and swung up to the Chama area."}, {"response": 45, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Jul 23, 1999 (01:40)", "body": "Greetings all. Almost forgot you were all here being wrapped up in the battle and all over at Utne. Yes disruption is a dangerous term, a faustian bargain, best to stay clear from that word. With civility at least you don't prevent anything you just drive it down into the subconscious. Does anybody have any idea how big a virtual community can get before it either becomes inbred and collapses in on itself, or swarms and in this manner is reduced to a manageable size. Are there are people around the Spring aren't there that know about this type of thing? I thought that the problem was one of authoritarianism, but it is more than that. I'm starting to think that is a partial truth, a concession that distracts the digger from digging all the way to the root of the problem. Authoritarianism is visible at least. It's the Santarogo Barrier of Frank Herbert that recides in the collective subconscious that is the real problem. Some say there is no problem at all, lets chat, and bring on the new blood to entertain us. We greet them and sap their energy of the honeymoon because we remember what it was like and know that we can't have it again. Been there and done that and wasn't it grand but that was in our youth when we had hope and before we settled into a jaded acceptance. Fresh meat, fresh meat, they bang the tin cups on the bars, and the newbies misteak it for welcome. A place to belong, it's so big, these are our type of people, I've finally found my tribe. Heh So you're so cool. Glad to see you. You'll never get bored, there's just too much to see, you'll never see it all, welcome to the biggest thing you ever saw. The promise offered that once you belong you will understand and why don't you want to meet us, come in come in. Fresh meat, fresh meat, fresh meet, flesh meet, lets do f2f Enough of this here is the bottom line. We came three years ago and had the honeymoon and talked about all the serious things that were save to talk about. In the process we became friends and substituted this love of ideas for this social stroking and having everybody tell us over and over that we were the biggest and brightest and the best the web had to offer. We don't want to talk about the ideas anymore because we already said it all. The newbies are saying things we heard before, lets shut them down. Silently ignored they go away except for those that chat and stroke and pretend they were here too in days of old and reading through back posts and hoping once they know they will be part of the inner circle that talks once again of the big ideas. By the time they find out that what was promised through implication of golden days long past is never to be there's the honeymoon is over and disillusioned they leave. Or join the group of mindless chat and pretend they were there and seduce the fresh meat that curries to their favor. A revolving door of fresh blood full of hope and they suck the best energy dry and what remains is dried flakes. Psychic vampires sucking the honeymoon charged energy of fresh blood. Run away or die but do not tell, and do not dare scare away the fresh blood."}, {"response": 46, "author": "moulton", "date": "Fri, Jul 23, 1999 (07:09)", "body": "Good rant, Ov. The things that matter most to me now are the things that are the most deeply embedded (yet largely unexamined) assumptions in the architecture of the culture. Are rules and sanctions a good way to regulate society? Why or why not? What other regulatory processes exist that might be preferable? Is blame sufficient to establish cause and effect? Is there a scientific way to establish cause and effect in which the answer is not a function of the party with the authority to fix blame? Are guilt and shame a viable tool to regulate behavior and induce learning? Why or why not? How are induced guilt and shame related to the emotions of remorse and embarrassment? What happens in a society where one party has the power to impose rules and sanctions and to fix blame? What happes to a society where the inhabitants engage in a recurring contest to induce guilt and shame on each other? What alternatives could there be? I am looking for a culture where systems thinking supplants rules and sanctions, where cause and effect is studied scientifically, where learning is based on naturally occuring emotions such as curiosity, puzzlement, fascination, remorse, chagrin, and insight. I am looking for a culture where the natural process of enlightenment is able to exist and thrive. If Utne can evolve to that culture, that would be good. If not, then we must craft it elsewhere."}, {"response": 47, "author": "ov", "date": "Fri, Jul 23, 1999 (16:21)", "body": "Those are all good questions Barry. Guilt, shame, power, authoriy, rules etc you know there is nothing wrong with any of these things. Without them nothing would get done and we would probably land up tearing ourselves apart in the process even more than we are now. All those questions seemed a set up for an excuse about how something that we currently have has to be gotten rid of. Heretical blasphemer that I am and how can I hate patriarchy as much as I say I do if I don't want to destroy the main characteristics of it. One the one hand it would be nice to get rid of all those things that have in the past turned out to be ways that have been used to force control over a population. If only we had freedom and elightenment then we wouldn't be having any of these problems. What problems? And then we go to a great deal of time and effort to show all of the negative implications that accrue from a system that uses power to control. But on the other hand if we get rid of all rules, regulations or the power to enforce them then we are left with a small group that still controls every action and behavior as osidiously as the paragraph above but they are invisibble and nobody can see who they are or what is happening. A societal body of any size will have rules and the question is whether they are explicit or implicit. Calling them by another name such as \"thinking\" or reason isn't going to change this. As soon as an attempt is made to prevent any particular type of behavior there will be negative consequences. But saying that anybody can do anything they want only empowers the implicit to do exactly what was trying to be prevented by the explicit. If there is any solution at all to this dillema I think it will involve motivating the individual members to act towards the greater good because they want to rather than because they have to. And the have to can include externally imposed force, or internally generated guilt or obligation. How to arrive at this situation is the sixty four trillion dollar question."}, {"response": 48, "author": "moulton", "date": "Fri, Jul 23, 1999 (16:57)", "body": "I propose to supplant rules with Best Practices. Best Practices are used in many disciplines (other than civil law) to empower practitioners to achieve the greatest good with the least effort. It's like Hints From Heloise, a compendium of Better Ideas. Most professions have professional societies which work toward the discovery of Best Practices."}, {"response": 49, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Fri, Jul 23, 1999 (18:55)", "body": "I agree with Moulton. Rule based shame creates good deeds out of fear. It is this fear which keeps us *in our place* when we see terrible things happening around us. I see \"good\" people around me every day who do not react appropriately when they see terrible things done to others around them. They have become sheep who are afraid to stand up to injustice because they have been taught since birth that to stand up is to be different and to be different is taboo."}, {"response": 50, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sat, Jul 24, 1999 (08:33)", "body": "To deliberately try to induce shame in someone against their will is an ill-advised practice, according to research by Harvard Psychologist James Gilligan and others."}, {"response": 51, "author": "ov", "date": "Sat, Jul 24, 1999 (15:03)", "body": "It might be a whole lot easier if homosapiens didn't have emotions. Maybe thousands or hundreds of thousands of years ago it would have been useful to discuss this point, but now that pandoras box has been opened there is no going back. Humans are wired for emotions and its not possible to choose which emotions to keep and which to get rid of; it's a package deal. And to try and remove all emotions simply results in angst and alienation which is indistinguishable from emtions. Rules, shame, fear, guilt and alienation are not the problem, but simply symptoms of a deeper dysfuncional structure or dynamics. I'm not comfortable saying even this because it implies that there is something else that is the cause of our problems rather than us, and by us I mean homosapiens. We can't seem to get over this idea that something better than ourselves has to come along and save us. We have a tendancy to abdicate the responsability of making the big decisions to some higher authority. We are more comfortable being slaves because then we do not have to ever risk being wrong on any critical decision that affects our continued existense as a species. Notice that in the 15the tarot card, the devil, the 21 compliment to the 6th tarot card the lovers, the humans are in bondage but it is of there own choice since the chains are loose enough that they can be slipped off. Maybe they have tried before and they were just too heavy. Maybe a switch of perspective such as the hanged man, care 12, would be enough for these chains to fall off of their own accord, but then again can we function with that much blood rushing to our heads?"}, {"response": 52, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jul 24, 1999 (16:46)", "body": "your third paragraph is an excellent point, ov, and I think the downside up viewpoint switch is an excellent suggestion as well!"}, {"response": 53, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Sat, Jul 24, 1999 (19:56)", "body": "Ov I have spent year being an activist...personal choice is not at the root of it either. The zoombie masses are asleep and don't want to be bothered until the wolf is knocking at their door. Then they jump up and down and howl and scream...but the rest of the world is still asleep...until the wolf is at the door...then they too jump up and down and squeal....but the rest of the world....get the picture? Are the chains heavy? Yes...but the chains being wrapped around my heart are even heavier as I watch the insanity around me and the sleeping masses choosing to cop out. Time is running out. I did not bring children into the world to bequeath them this insanity. Where are the other parents in the world and why aren't they screaming? I home schoolded my 20 year old because Irefused to send her into a war zone...but the parents who got what was happening at school where miniscule...what kind of drugs ar they on that they can't see what is right before their faces?"}, {"response": 54, "author": "ov", "date": "Sat, Jul 24, 1999 (20:31)", "body": "Eventually the wolf will break down the door. Then it will eat the sheep, and gorge until it is so full that it becomes complacent and falls asleep. Then those that were wise enough to wait and hide, can kill the wolf, and skin the hide, and sit before the fire on furry rug and talk about the next era that has just begun. I submit this as my application for cold hearted bastard of the millenium."}, {"response": 55, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (07:28)", "body": "Homo Sapiens, being a Learning Being, cannot escape having emotions, any more than a feral critter can avoid having speed and agility. All moving objects, sez Professor Newton, have velocity, acceleration, and jerk. Got no choice, sez the inventor of the Calculus. And then he goes on to explain Differential Calculus, as everyone except a few MIT nerds fall asleep. ZZZzzz... One of those nerds, who actually stayed awake and learned the Calculus, noticed that it applies to all dynamic systems, including (drum roll...) Learning Systems. And then, while again everyone slept through the drone, he wrote down some equations. Let K(t) be the total accumulated Knowledge of a Learning System at time, t. Then Learning, L(t) is the \"speed\" at which new Knowledge is acquired. L(t) = dK(t)/dt But we don't learn at a fixed speed. Our rate of learning speeds up and slows down, and sometimes becomes arrested for a spell. Agility at learning means being able to turn corners and learn in new directions. And so, back to Newton's Calculus. E(t) = dL(t)/dt What! Come again? E(t)???? Emotions???? Do you mean to tell me, and this committee, that we have emotions because we don't learn at a constant rate? Yup, Senator. I mean to tell you just that. And what do you call the 3rd derivative, pray tell? Depends. Newton called it \"jerk\" and that sort of fits, don'tcha know. But it can be also called \"flash of insight\" or in extreme cases, \"epiphany\" or \"revelation.\" Egads! Spirituality boiled down to the bloody calculus. What you been smokin, boy? No smoke, Senator. I'm just sittin here quietly on my mat, meditating. Like them Native Americans in Minnesota or them Chinese ladies in Hong Kong. Sitting quietly, studiously, breathing, meditating, and occassionally downing a stray slice of pizza."}, {"response": 56, "author": "ov", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (16:25)", "body": "You can afford to buy smoke and pizza? I'm envious. No, no, no plese not the calculus of learning again. Karma bonce. That is when I get to feel the way that I make other people feel when I behave in certain ways. For example how most people must feel when I try to associated the creation of a topic with an object oriented class object."}, {"response": 57, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (20:46)", "body": "I'm not most people. I'm perfectly comfortable with OOP Classes. Think of a topic as a Factory. Creating a topic is building a new Factory. The Factory produces ... um what do you call the product here? :)"}, {"response": 58, "author": "ov", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (21:01)", "body": "Well I had a lot typed and went to hit control back arrow to move the cursor back a word and hit alt back arrow by mistake. Being inside MS right now this took me to the previous screen and when I went back to this screen the box was empty. Is this an IE problem or a yapp problem, where you can't leave a page without losing it. I think we produce discussions Barry. But I like the OOP class concept better than the factory concept because we output ideas and thought rather than emperical constructs. Classes are used in computer programs. There is methodology for designing software. I wonder if there can be methodology for designing concepts?"}, {"response": 59, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (21:32)", "body": "Ov it took him a while to convince me because the concept is so new....but it really grows on you. Hey Moulton...got any fetilizer?"}, {"response": 60, "author": "ov", "date": "Sun, Jul 25, 1999 (21:46)", "body": "Greetings Debra. Not sure who he is that was convincing you of what. Were you talking about the calculus of emotional learning? Debra how long have you been here at the Spring? and have you been to other virtual communities as well? If Moulton caught and kept all the fertilizer that has ever been thrown at him he would have enough to blow up several institutions. Well he might have to mix it with a little diesal fuel first. There's lots of fertilizer around but where do you find the fuel?"}, {"response": 61, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (01:46)", "body": "I came in with the Orenda group. I am a refugee from Utne....Oooooooo. I still post in the poetry section when I find time and I was refering to Moulton. I hate models because too often they are so rigid they do not allow for variables but this one seems to work.... for what ever reason. Yeh I hear that Moulton collects flack and laminates it and then he turns it into art deco furniture in MuseNet...sort of like make lemonaide from lemons. I love rebels since I am one myself. The status quo bores me! I'm going to look up a poem I wrote and post it."}, {"response": 62, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (01:49)", "body": "The promised poem: Redundancy Redundancy the outer plane, the world wants repetition. Don\ufffdt ask them to extrapolate, stick to subtraction and addition. Visceral passages please omit, inner growth discarded. Syntactic constructions obsolete, useless words in dictionaries. Homosapian thought defoliate, human minds.left empty. Pedagogues and all my peers, teachers and fellow students. Hear my obstreperous voice, resist control with unruly manner. My pundit self vociferates,. my intellect cries out. Redundancy my battle-cry, spurn repetition my slogan."}, {"response": 63, "author": "ov", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (02:08)", "body": "I've just spent the last three hours watching a most fascinating movie. There was a little bit of humor here and there but mainly it was a psychological drama. Very intense. Maybe it would be more accurate to call it a mystery because there were so many layers to it that you never quite knew what was going on. The basic plot was that a few game players (GP) saw an empty theater and reserved it for a play. Then they invited a couple of authoritarian personalities (AP) and some more people walked in off the street. GP: Do you want to come and see a play? AP: What's it about? GP: Some authoritarian personalities have volunteered to have nervous breakdowns and let us watch. AP: Sounds interesting, we wouldn't miss it for the world. Everybody had their roles to play, their scripts, and the associated cues. Some of the actors were on stage and some were down in the audience. None of the actors knew what the other actors scripts were. The AP however didn't know that they were the play and that they could leave at any time in which case it would be over. They didn't however because it wasn't in their nature to quit, and because in order to see what was going on they would have had to acknowledge that they were authoritarian, which was also something that they coudn't do. At one point it seems that the AP realize what is happening and leave the stage. The GP must unexpectantly adapt their scripts and start to improvise. Members of the audience pick up on this and think this is what is expected of them so they do the same and start acting as well. So now nobody is in control and a chaotic situation exists, which wouldn't be that bad since this is still a situation where nobody is being forced to do anything. The AP however, who had momentarily regained control by exiting the stage, had now lost control and were forced by their nature to return and save everybody. At this point absolutely everybody forgets that this is not real, and the AP are allowed to call the cops and shut down the theatre. Like a Greek tragedy everybody marches toward their destiny even when they can see that it is leading to disastor. A very interesting film and if you get a chance you should rent it. Lots of interesting subplots as well. It's called \"No, not *IN* your Face, precisely. Deal with it. Please.\" The step off the cliff notes version of sex.258"}, {"response": 64, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (07:51)", "body": "Laminated Flack is now available for your viewing pleasure."}, {"response": 65, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (13:32)", "body": "Oh goody! Is this your new line?"}, {"response": 66, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (13:34)", "body": "Oh goody! Is this your new line Mouton? Ov: Sounds like something we could pull off here with the Green Party. (chuckle)"}, {"response": 67, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (14:49)", "body": "I've been doing Far Out Theater for over a year now. I did a lot of it in Meta, in several topics there, including the one Keith Rice opened and named in my honor. Kai called it Boxcar Theater, because to his mind, the dialogues were \"boxcars full of gibberish.\" The railroad meme turned out to be very powerful. Lo picked it up in her \"yup yup yup\" byline, which labels the preceding posts as being in agreement or not. The pattern of \"yup yup yup nope yup\" identifies the pattern of the conflict, which evolves around a common gap in knowledge. If the parties hang in there long enough, they can identify the common gap in knowledge, and gain a quantum unit of insight. Boxcar Theater, or Far Out Theater is designed to reveal the gap in knowledge around which the parties are dancing their tango. The Engine and the Caboose of the train are the deep-seated fear and the sought-after relief from the fear. The Fear of and the Got ? are separated by boxcars of gibberish which conceal the unexpressed feelings and emotions."}, {"response": 68, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (14:53)", "body": "Oops. I got meta-parsed. That last sentence should read: The Fear of <Engine> and the Got <Caboose>? are separated by boxcars of gibberish which conceal the unexpressed feelings and emotions. Also, the 500-character string limit bit me twice up there. The one you prolly didn't guess right is this one: The pattern of \"yup yup yup nope yup\" identifies the pattern of the conflict, which revolves around a common gap in knowledge."}, {"response": 69, "author": "ov", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (15:19)", "body": "Did you have to precede those angle brackets with a backslash to get them to show? Read through Utenbury. Very interesting. What ever came down about the posting of emails on your site? If somebody sends me an email, then isn't it mine to do with whatever as I please? I mean legally. Also if I send an email to somebody can't I also publish what it was that I sent? It would seem to me that a person would only be in legal trouble if a third party posted the email and both the sender and the receiver were to file for action. What's the reality of the situation? It's interesting about the ignore feature. Yes if everybody in a group puts a person on ignore then that person no longer has the power to influence. However it will never happen that everybody will place somebody on ignore. I don't know how this came to be, but there is the common assumption that whatever is not rebutted is by default accepted to be true. Combine this with the fact that about the only thing that pisses off a control freak more than not being in control is having somebody else know so ething that they don't."}, {"response": 70, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (17:22)", "body": "To post the angle brackets, the technique is to write: & l t ; and & g t ; These 4-character codes will produce meta-characters for Less Than and Greater Than that would otherwise be parsed as HTML tag markers. I posted the unsolicited, unwanted e-mails from Kai in which he threatened sanctions if I did not meet his non-negotiable demands regarding my postings on sites other than Cafe Utne. And for publishing them, he canceled my access to Utne and took personal ownership and control of my intellectual property there. I do not consider unsolicited and threatening e-mail to be protected, confidential, or copyrighted. Imagine a kidnaper suing the victim for publishing the ransom note on the basis that it was confidential and copyrighted. It's a ludicrous argument. Kai admitted coercion in one of the e-mails. He evidently sees nothing wrong with coercing people. If two parties enter into a correspondence by mutual consent, and agree to keep their conversation confidential, that's fine. That's an agreement, entered voluntarily, without mental reservation. But when Kai unilaterally sends me a threat, no such agreement exists. I automatically publish the threat. That's what horrified him and the others. I exposed their back alley dealings, their secret campaign to damage my standing elsewhere. The antidote to control is observation. Bearing accurate witness. And the only way to bear accurate witness is to exhibit the raw evidence. My spin version of his message doesn't count. If I spin it, Kai can unspin it. If I publish his raw message, there is nothing spun and nothing to be unspun. That's what shocked him. That's why he is so adamant about denying anyone the right to republish anything verbatim. But news is news. And tyranny is news. Tyrants just hate being photographed in the act."}, {"response": 71, "author": "ov", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (20:03)", "body": "&llt; alrighty then > So this whole thing about legality is bullshit then and the publishing of somebody else's email on the web is only something that Kai has made into a \"law\" because he wants to play these games. Kind of like the other day it was obvious that absolutely everybody knows that you're not supposed to show links into private conferences. One thing that I want is to make things explicit because if they aren't then everybody knows whats going on, but if you say something they deny it. Oh well I guess if a person get's into childish games its really hard to say who is the most childish."}, {"response": 72, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Jul 26, 1999 (20:36)", "body": "It's all bogus. He makes up the rules as he goes along, and then violates them himself when it serves his purposes. Roxanna posted a link to LJ before I did. And I asked Kristie if that was OK and she said yes. But then, when I did it, all hell broke loose. Their rules are a sham. A veiled excuse to visit indignities on people. It's about as bogus as it get. Corruption in the spirit of King John. The control freaks are absolutely slaves of their Amygdalas."}, {"response": 73, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Tue, Jul 27, 1999 (01:52)", "body": "I f the only way of proving that someone said something harmful is to reveal a post, I agree it is legitimate to do so. I had my e-mail broken into and posts removed to keep me from using it as evidence in a grievance. The best thing that could happen on this planet is that we all became able to read minds. You would see an end to BS at that point."}, {"response": 74, "author": "moulton", "date": "Tue, Jul 27, 1999 (06:48)", "body": "The problem is, some people already believe they do read minds. I see people form misconceptions about someone else's thoughts, feelings, or intentions, and then visit sanctions and indignities upon them on the basis of such unexamined models of another person's mindset. It's utterly horrifying when it happens."}, {"response": 75, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Tue, Jul 27, 1999 (11:35)", "body": "That is exactly what happened to me at Utne. A group of people decided I was angry and hounded me about being angry despite my clarifications until I became angry with them for insisting I was angry. I left the conference because nothing constructive was happening in regards to the actual topic because my state of mind became the main topic."}, {"response": 76, "author": "moulton", "date": "Tue, Jul 27, 1999 (12:27)", "body": "It's a form of psychological warfare which I have seen everywhere in our culture. It greatly vexes and perplexes me. I've seen it done in politics, in litigation, in personnel evaluations, in TV sitcoms, on talk radio, and in adolescent cultures. It's a basic lack of awareness of civility. I believe it's destroying our culture and wreaking havoc with our emotional well-being."}, {"response": 77, "author": "ov", "date": "Tue, Jul 27, 1999 (15:16)", "body": "I think there might be an intentional effort to prevent any kind of constructive discussion because it would provide an example of what is possible when people form solidarity outside of officially sanctioned institutions. Similar idea to how the US spends so much effort on preventing \"good examples\" of democracy in action in some third world countries. Democracy has been redefined to be what is in the best interest of the corporate sector rather than the best interests of the people. Chomsky provided a good case for this in \"The Culture of Terrorism.\" Except from his perspective the terrorists were US government supported covert operations. This idea of using the web to bring people together so they can operate from collective action is one of the big struggles of our time. Keeping everybody atomized and isolated is the best defense that centralized control has of maintaining centralized control. I find it interesting that the radical right is one of the biggest fear mongers on the dangers of the net, and at the same time are the most successful at using the net for their own evangelicism. They hate it because they know how powerful it could be."}, {"response": 78, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Tue, Jul 27, 1999 (17:10)", "body": "You go guy! Ov: I sang in Canada in the late 70s. (Grin...I read your Bio at Utne) I was in Onterio...Toronto, Petersborough, Hamilton and Sudsbury. I was in an all female rock and roll band. Canada be cool! I had Satan's Choice (Canada's Hell's Angels) taking of their colors to come here me sing...Grace Slick and Linda Rondstat, Joplin, the Beatles, the Doors, Hendrix, among others...Grin. We was a hot item up there back then."}, {"response": 79, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Tue, Jul 27, 1999 (17:12)", "body": "Excuse the typos I typing on the run...(blush)"}, {"response": 80, "author": "ov", "date": "Tue, Jul 27, 1999 (18:01)", "body": "I've got a poem that really should be a song. Needs a cross between Grace Slick and James Earl Jones, maybe I've slipped a cog here but I mean the voice behind the Darth Vadar mask. Tell me if you can feel the power and hear the music in the background."}, {"response": 81, "author": "ov", "date": "Tue, Jul 27, 1999 (18:03)", "body": "The Divine Design by Robert Oveson In the beginning there was darkness It was black and it was void And there was nothing but the word The word was Be No more no less Just Be cast adrift on a sea of total nothingness. Now was this a noun named Be Or a verb and a quest and a destiny Either way it matters not For whichever way you choose Be was all alone and in the dark without a single clue. With the faith to believe That there was a methodology To find the ideal strategy And that somewhere down along the line Through permutations and transformation Achieves self creation And applies it back to the start of time Be declared this to be law Law by design. As events started to unfold Be saw there was more to it than that For Nothing turned out to be The ultimate primordial vat From which nothing could escape And before all would be done All the parts in their diversity would have to act as one And communicate, and cooperate And see the whole plan through Be declared this to be Design Law number two. Now it had to general Because you couldn't know all that was involved The plot would be oral so that it could evolve And it had to be dynamic so it could withstand the change This order of General Oral and Dynamic Became the trinity That Be declared to be Design Law number three. The focus is on knowledge and what it all means Philosophers would later write Of how its more that what it seems Of what is it made that gives it physical form And from what is it begot that caused it to be born What is its function and how does it perform And what is its purpose and its future hold in store To all things these questions Combine with deductive lore Be declared this to be Design Law number four. The future is the possibility Of what you want and what you need With imagination waiting to be explored Inducting options to multiply rather than divide And search out what it takes to come alive. Be declared this to be Design Law number five. Through synthesis all things combine The past and future intertwine In common cause that transcends time. As for effect there is free will And it all depends on what you pick There lie the cunning in the cosmic trick That Be declared to be Design Law number six. In this chaos of complexity And you think your in too deep Enjoy the easy parts while your awake And do the hard parts in your sleep It shall be on Earth as in this subconscious heaven Be declared this to be Design Law number seven. With this Be realized And came alive as concept materialized Be became I Am Then cycled the essence of its being Through the process once again Going back to the start of time With Be revealing the divine design And watching it unwind and branch and grow Until it feels the pulse And is prompted to trace back to the core And each and every time It's more beautiful than it was before In the end there was darkness It was black and it was void There was nothing but words But two were I Am And another one was Be It's all you'll ever want And all you'll ever need This meaning passed through verse Is to be and become one with the entire universe Be"}, {"response": 82, "author": "moulton", "date": "Tue, Jul 27, 1999 (18:30)", "body": "On Free Will and Self-Creation Yesterday Today and Tomorrow I Was What I Was I Am What I Am I Will Be What I Will Be"}, {"response": 83, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Wed, Jul 28, 1999 (21:12)", "body": "((((((((((Ov)))))))))))) Are you planning an operetta? That's a lotta lyrics."}, {"response": 84, "author": "ov", "date": "Thu, Jul 29, 1999 (01:40)", "body": "There would be enough material for an opera if the story was told from the last debate prior to the big bang through to the myth goddesses seduction of Horace, but that's all I've got lyrics for. Wish I could sing, play or write music. Before the big bang, at that stage where concept is attempting to create matter, so that it can prove that it is real, all the components come together and check for consensus, and if not then disperse and further converse, and then come together once again. Have to be sure because there's only have one chance, so if any part has the slightest doubt they break away and work it out, then come back to try again. Like a multibranched fireworks burst expanding and contracting in pulsating harmonics. Until finally eventually not one says halt and infinitely contracts into nothingness and expands out the other side into matter. And the sound of the spheres is in the design and fifteen billion years to build the reciver for a message sent out long ago and in the doing prove that it matters. Wild woman of my dreams tell me the story once again."}, {"response": 85, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Jul 29, 1999 (02:13)", "body": "We are discovering our creation story."}, {"response": 86, "author": "ov", "date": "Mon, Aug  2, 1999 (17:46)", "body": "I think I just discovered one of the reasons that these topics go dead. I mean besides the obvious one of somebody sounding like they are so far out there that everybody is afraid to talk to them. It's not being afraid ov, it's just that we don't want to. Oh, sorry. Unless something new crops up you have to list all topics, and then when you hit on the topic all, every last one of them, all of the topics come flowing down. Thank gus this only had 85 topics or it would have crashed the browser for sure. Things are still chugging along over at the old place. Seems that being a manipulative sexist is the latest charge to be added to my sentence. Funny how they start crawling out of the woodwork when you don't behave the way they want you to."}, {"response": 87, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Mon, Aug  2, 1999 (18:47)", "body": "I just had to tell a guy at Utne: Your statement is very condescending, presumptuous and patronizing. I will not honor it with a reply. I am not in here to defend myself. I came here to engage in discussion about inequities and I thought possible solutions. His statement was that since you just graduated from college, I will make allowances (or something to that effect) but you need to stop just critiquing and start building. It was so hard not to feed into that crap and start telling him everything I have done as a activist. Grrr Another one off my hotlist."}, {"response": 88, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Mon, Aug  2, 1999 (18:48)", "body": "I don't know what gives with this software. Whole chunks of postings vanish before I read them -- must be something I'm doing without knowing it or the way I have something set. I dunno. But I just discovered I'd missed everything written in this topic since July 26. Most times when I log on here it says \"0\" in all my conferences."}, {"response": 89, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Mon, Aug  2, 1999 (18:53)", "body": "Sometimes it's not what we say as much as how we say it, Debra, especially online where nobody can hear the melogy of our voices, or see our facial expressions moderate our very opinionated opinions."}, {"response": 90, "author": "ov", "date": "Mon, Aug  2, 1999 (19:16)", "body": "I really get frustrated when I'm told I'm being negative just because I don't buy into the consumerist propaganda, or when I question the current status quo."}, {"response": 91, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Mon, Aug  2, 1999 (19:53)", "body": "They've got you over a barrel, Robert, but you've got them backed into a corner. It's all part of the scapegoating process. The interesting thing in Cafe_Future, for me, is that there are enough people there who understand this mechanism that it's not working very well. Some of them, like Kate, don't want you to be made a scapegoat, because it would make her a party to the mob. (Never mind that she already is, but she most definitely doesn't want to be seen that way. Do you blame her?) So there's all this push me-pull me stuff going on in the conference. They've opened it up for comment, which is to say they've invited people to question the status quo. So if YOU do, how can they call you negative and then speak out of the other side of their mouth and thank others for doing so? That's the corner you've got them in. The barrel they've got YOU over is, of course, that when they accuse you of something that's untrue or misinterpret what you've said, and you defend yourself and set the record straight, you're \"being defensive\" -- which we all know is just negative as all hell. ;) Good luck. So far you're dodging the bullets perfectly. And your performance in Meta, making up with Suzanne, was golden."}, {"response": 92, "author": "ov", "date": "Mon, Aug  2, 1999 (21:50)", "body": "Thanks Nan, but I didn't consider that to be a performance. Nor any of what's going on over there as a performance as far as that goes. Been playing this as clinicaly cold as a coroner. Being able to dissasociate is one of the gifts that I inherited from my childhood. Let me qualify that previous paragraph. Challenging Karl to a one on one debate in a new topic in Cafe Future was a bit of a performance. I'm a bit dissapointed that he didn't want to. I think we could have shed a lot of illumination. That much illumination probably would have burned me out though so maybe it was for the best. One of the things that has been irritating me about this whole process is that I'm being forced to defend myself on points that, for my perspective, have already been covered and if they had read what I had wrote they wouldn't have had to ask the question in the first place. I don't know whether they are using the flippant dismissive technique or whether I'm just not being as clear as I think I am. Right now I'm just trying to wrap up the loose ends with integrity. If the cafe doesn't change then there is no reason for me to be there, and if there is an effort to change then at this point I can't be involved in that change because there will always be this question of my motivations and whether or not I'm on a power and control trip. I think that I have been a big part of planting the seed that will enable them to do it on their own if they reach that collective desire to do so. Then again, maybe its just one more story floating around the net."}, {"response": 93, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Tue, Aug  3, 1999 (00:31)", "body": "\"Thanks Nan, but I didn't consider that to be a performance. Nor any of what's going on over there as a performance as far as that goes...\" I'm sorry, Robert. I tossed off an imprecise word again, if you took my meaning as being a \"staged\" performance. I simply meant, I thought you did a very good job with Suzanne in Meta, making peace. It was a performance only in that it was played out on a public stage, IMO. I think I gave you a cheer in Meta, and I should have let it go at that. I'm not doing at all well tonight with words, in real life. :("}, {"response": 94, "author": "ov", "date": "Tue, Aug  3, 1999 (03:11)", "body": "That's okay Nan. I didn't take it badly. Though the challenge to Karl was a performance. For the last year I have been contemplating the alternatives to rule based systems. I'm not exactly against them, because in the abscence of explicit rules all that happens is the rules are driven underground and become implicit. This allows for the leadership by a small clique. On the other hand if you implement a system of rules then you simply transfer power to whoever is best able to use these rules to their own advantage. Plus, if you have a system of explicit system of rules then it becomes a constant game of finding ways to violoate the intention of the law without violating the letter of the law. Entertaining for some, but energy sapping for everyone else. Pushed to the extreme this results in a system where everything is forbidden except that which is explicitly stated and the explicit is mandatory. At this point creativity, and live, are essentially dead. So it's between a rock and a hard place. The only way around this, it seems to me, is for there to exist a larger common goal which everybody desires, and which provides its own postive feedback in the process of obtaining that goal. Fucking and orgasm is a good example. Rallying the troops to go for this would indeed require a performance. I have given up on that dream happening in the cafe. The performance was cancelled before it even began. Maybe, just maybe, somewhere, there is a group of people that want this as much as I do. But how do I find them?"}, {"response": 95, "author": "moulton", "date": "Tue, Aug  3, 1999 (08:05)", "body": "About the only way to get into a community of systems thinkers is to organize a community of systems thinkers in which participation is limited to those who are systems thinkers. Mebbe if the price of admission were an essay on Recursion. :)"}, {"response": 96, "author": "moulton", "date": "Tue, Aug  3, 1999 (08:09)", "body": "Proposed opening post of a new topic on Utne: In the \"saloning\" tradition, Cafe Utne purports to be a dynamic and evolving community where the stated goal is to discuss ideas & issues in a thoughtful and respectful manner. The intention is to provide people with new and innovative solutions for living more balanced, fulfilling lives, and bringing about positive change in the world. Let's take a few measurements and see how close we are coming to realizing that overarching goal. Let's begin with some background reading on the Best Idea of the Millenium, according to the editors of the New York Times Magazine: http://www.nytimes.com/library/magazine/millennium/m1/soyinka.html What evidence can we find, both pro and con, that we are discovering, developing, and demonstrating better ideas for crafting a better world?"}, {"response": 97, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Tue, Aug  3, 1999 (10:42)", "body": "\"About the only way to get into a community of systems thinkers is to organize a community of systems thinkers in which participation is limited to those who are systems thinkers. ... Mebbe if the price of admission were an essay on Recursion.\" Well, count me out then. I'm much too nonlinear to be classified a \"systems thinker\" -- and Recursion as an essay topic simply makes me want to run and hide."}, {"response": 98, "author": "ov", "date": "Tue, Aug  3, 1999 (14:35)", "body": "Barry the topic that you proposed sounds too much like a challenge and I think that it would be polarized right from the start. There is a new topic that has just started over in Big Sangha that might lead into some of this. It's about doing all of the little things that go unnoticed but together add up and make a difference. Richard made the comment that this is what he thought was happening in the cafe right now. Maybe there is a lot more going on in this regard than is visible because it has been pu hed underground. Your post on systems thinking was quite timely. I resent the mail that went through empty last night. Did you get a chance to take a look at some of those links and have you seen them before. It looks like there are people that are doing this type of work. The question is if they want us to be part of their group. My initial suspicion is that those that are working on this would exclude those that haven't got the proper credentials, such as a PhD in this field, or are part of the professional lecture ircuit on this. You might have a chance of breaking into this but I doubt that I would. Recursion sounds too computer geeky. Bootstrapping is also a computer term but it seems to have migrate into other disciplines."}, {"response": 99, "author": "moulton", "date": "Tue, Aug  3, 1999 (14:55)", "body": "I just looked at some of the links. They didn't seem to have an open forum at any of them."}, {"response": 100, "author": "ov", "date": "Tue, Aug  3, 1999 (15:10)", "body": "Can't resist snarfing the century post. I didn't see any open forum there either, but I'm sure that this type of thing must be going on in private conferences at least. I take it that you don't know of any public forums where they are specifically talking about systems thinking, is that correct? If I can find a place that has free private conferences would you be interesting in setting one up on this subject? I would be interested in participating. Perhaps the first step would be to do an inventory of who is who in the field and find out where they hang out. Then once we have the territory mapped out we could recruit people that are interested. I think you would be a much better person to do this since this seems to be your main passion, whereas for myself it is related but not primary. The problem with private conferences is the critical mass and all the usual stuff. Or do you think that this is something that has to be in an open forum?"}, {"response": 101, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Tue, Aug  3, 1999 (15:18)", "body": "\"If I can find a place that has free private conferences would you be interesting in setting one up on this subject?\" do you mean besides here at the Spring?"}, {"response": 102, "author": "moulton", "date": "Tue, Aug  3, 1999 (16:13)", "body": "Ov, bring up the page here to List All Conferences and scroll all the way to the bottom of the list."}, {"response": 103, "author": "ov", "date": "Tue, Aug  3, 1999 (17:53)", "body": "Well I've just checked into the Orenda conference and added it to my hotlist. Barry I think that if you want to recruit some specialists in the area of systems thinking it would be best to place it in a conference of its own. One that is dry and objective and without any connection to political motivations. Or we could talk about it here. This seems to be Barry's topic so I can't see why anybody would object to talking in here about things that are related to what you may do. One of the first questions is if there already is a conference somewhere that is talking about systems thinking. We would only be able to know this if it was a public conference because private conferences are by there nature secret. Then if there is a conference for this type of thing would it be able to participate or would it be an academic clique that is protective of its membership."}, {"response": 104, "author": "moulton", "date": "Wed, Aug  4, 1999 (02:31)", "body": "I may be the only person here with academic training in systems theory. There aren't very many of us."}, {"response": 105, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Aug  4, 1999 (06:30)", "body": "We can set up a conference called systems if you need it."}, {"response": 106, "author": "moulton", "date": "Wed, Aug  4, 1999 (08:12)", "body": "It might be a worthwhile thing to do, Terry. The notion of systems theory and systems thinking is one that is still outside the public consciousness, but one that is worth organizing a conference around."}, {"response": 107, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Fri, Aug  6, 1999 (21:27)", "body": "Ov and Terry thought this chat that Moulton and I participated in might interest you in reference to the above posts. http://chat.abcnews.go.com/chat/chat.dll?room=abc_BNW_cyber0806"}, {"response": 108, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sat, Aug  7, 1999 (10:05)", "body": "See also this chat from NPR's Talk of the Nation: http://yourturn.npr.org/cgi-bin/WebX?13@^359575@.ee774c0 You may need to register to access it. If the above URL doesn't work, go to http://www.npr.org/yourturn/index.html#totn and click on the topic title: Learning Without Schools."}, {"response": 109, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Sat, Aug  7, 1999 (11:44)", "body": "I came away from the discussion I posted above with a sense of dread. We cannot even create a world, on the human level, that functions by any measure of the imagination in a humane or healthy way and yet our egos lead us to believe we can design machines to be implanted in the brain to increase what? Our dysfunction? As I told Barry in another forum...throughout my life I have found myself railing at my creator for making me a thinking human being...but what really gets me is, that despite the fact that I have the ability to think I am not infallible nor have I yet met any human who was. If we are truly thinking beings, we come away from intelligent conversations with the realization, that in ten lifetimes we could not, by any stretch of the mind assimilate enough information to take into consideration all the variables necessary to address the the *key* issues.... that *might* bring about constructive social change...never-the-less identify what those *key* issue really are. Part of the problem lies in the fact that most humans tend to have tunnel vision. Over and over again I see peop e in their respective fields presenting their theory as the... be all, end all, solution to the world\ufffds problems. My father once told me, that main dilemma we face, in trying to figure out which theories were correct, was that the person who wrote best...in a way that held your attention and was understandable...tended to get the most attention paid to his/her vision of the issue. Writing ability; however, had little to do with the validity of the premises made. The same principle goes with along with speaking ability. How many meeting have you been to where the most forceful and powerful speaker gets and holds the audience\ufffds attention, regardless of how realistic their premise is. The end result is, I always end up with the same questions...with all this in mind how do we identify...*the solution*, and even if we were able to...how then do we identify a leadership that can implement workable solutions....without allowing the mentality of power-over to erode the process....the linear mentality that pervades society and keeps us bound in our separate realities (tunnel vision) so that we cannot see beyond the *expertise* that we individually bring to the table."}, {"response": 110, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Sat, Aug  7, 1999 (11:51)", "body": "I read the transcript of the chat and had similar feelings to yours, Debra. So much bravado, so much posturing, so much trying to one-up each other with big words. So much effort to be the most noticed, the \"most intelligent\" poster. So little understanding or humanity or listening. Sorry. It's a rather dark day here in my heart and gut, which have (despite my Mensa Mind) always been the final arbiter when it comes to tough decisions."}, {"response": 111, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Sat, Aug  7, 1999 (12:06)", "body": "(((((Moonbeam)))))))) Hey! read Tiffaney's (Danelle) first foray into the Muse. I wish you could have been here. It was her birthday so we stayed up late. In her desc she messed up and only posted f...this sent her into gales of laughter and pleas to not let it stand as f. I'm sure you can imagine the the things that as she put it, \"small f\" could stand for. She didn't say them, but the implications were there and evey time she thought about it, it brought new gales of laughter. Your world would not seem so dark if you could have shared this moment with us. A great part of my drive to find solutions comes from her bright spirit. (sigh)"}, {"response": 112, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sat, Aug  7, 1999 (20:03)", "body": "Thinking is a learned behavior. Nor is it taught much in school. My complaint is not that we have the ability to learn how to think, but that we have this ferchachta Department of Horror Assessment that doesn't do a very good job of assessing true danger. And so when it makes an error by assessing danger when none is present, all hell breaks loose."}, {"response": 113, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sun, Aug  8, 1999 (07:41)", "body": "Here's another article, a book review on Salon, about the Cyborging of America ."}, {"response": 114, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sun, Aug  8, 1999 (08:06)", "body": "And another article, from the NY Times, about Cog , an advanced robot under development in MIT AI Lab. Here's my favorite pull-quote: Despite the fact that he directs the world's largest artificial intelligence laboratory, Dr. [Rodney] Brooks is something of a maverick in the field. \"Most of my colleagues here in the lab do very different things and have only contempt for my work,\" he said cheerfully."}, {"response": 115, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sun, Aug  8, 1999 (08:31)", "body": "\"Just north of Santa Fe, the Tewa pueblo of San Ildefonso sits at the bottom of the plateau on which the laboratory city of Los Alamos stands. While the people of San Ildefonso carry out secret ceremonies in the kivas and dance to the rhythms of the seasons, the physicists of Los Alamos struggle with some of the deepest ideas of quantum theory, particle physics, and a new science called the physics of information, which seeks to understand the very source of pattern and order in the world.\" The above pull-quote is from a book review of Fire in the Mind by George Johnson, a former editor of the NY Times who now hosts the NYT Forum on Mysteries of the Universe . You can read the Preface Johnson's book online."}, {"response": 116, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Sun, Aug  8, 1999 (10:52)", "body": "\"Yet if Marshall McLuhan is right, and the medium is the message, then our bodies are our minds (and vice-versa). The body is the interface between the world of the self and the world of others -- remove that interface and you eliminate the pleasure and danger inherent in the unpredictable friction between these worlds.\" these words leaped out at me from the Cyborg review. just wanted to say AMEN, having learned this well in the last five years."}, {"response": 117, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Sun, Aug  8, 1999 (11:01)", "body": "thanks for the link to the \"fire of the mind\" preface, barry. i grew up in that crazy place, you know. whenever i go back to los alamos i find myself pulled more and more by the truth and rootedness of the ancient, caring spirits, not the new, heedless and heart-free ones."}, {"response": 118, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Sun, Aug  8, 1999 (11:03)", "body": "i'm leaving in a few minutes for new mexico -- will be on the road until wednesday. please keep me in your prayers for a safe journey."}, {"response": 119, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sun, Aug  8, 1999 (13:42)", "body": "I have you in my prayers. Godspeed, Moonbeam."}, {"response": 120, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Sun, Aug  8, 1999 (16:30)", "body": "You can check in with everyone while here. This time we shall meet! My prayers are with you."}, {"response": 121, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Aug  9, 1999 (18:46)", "body": "I stopped by the public library today and found the video of the William Golding classic, Lord of the Flies. It's a parable about a group of schoolboys stranded on a desert island. At first they intend to set up a process of self-governance while awaiting rescue. But their civil society quickly breaks down and turns to anarchy and violence. It is interesting that they are only able to think in terms of rules, the enforcement of which requires violence. And they quickly devolve into unilateralism and power struggles. It's a compact little story, and not a bad metaphor for society in general and Utne in particular. I honestly don't know what it will take to introduce the novel concept of a civil society operating with bilateral agreements. I note that it didn't happen on Utne or in the LJ conference there. Incidentally, the title, Lord of the Flies, is a literal translation of the Hebrew word/name Beelzebub."}, {"response": 122, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 10, 1999 (10:23)", "body": "Have a good, safe trip moonbeam."}, {"response": 123, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Thu, Aug 12, 1999 (17:35)", "body": "thanks for the wings you prayed me -- ;) the trip was safe and uneventful. i'm in new mexico now and will leave for utah on saturday. 1,200 miles down, 800 more to go."}, {"response": 124, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Aug 12, 1999 (17:44)", "body": "Now we pray for Hart and Patrick, and for Buffy, too."}, {"response": 125, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 12, 1999 (21:48)", "body": "Where are you checking in from? Motel room and laptop? Safespeed on the journey's final windup."}, {"response": 126, "author": "dawnis", "date": "Fri, Aug 13, 1999 (01:12)", "body": "(((((Moonbeam)))))) It was great to hear from you today. Pampee sends her love. Sorry we couldn't meet up again."}, {"response": 127, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Fri, Aug 13, 1999 (02:12)", "body": "terry, i'm checking in from los alamos, borrowing my dad's lab account (the spies are monitoring it, doncha know)... i have a laptop out in my car but haven't unpacked it this time. barry, thanks for everything. especially your prayers. debra, it was so nice to talk with you this evening. sorry i couldn't hold up my end of the conversation very well. we'll meet someday!"}, {"response": 128, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Aug 16, 1999 (06:12)", "body": "Posted on CNN's community forum in the \"Hate Crimes\" topic... Do you believe hate groups are a threat in this country? Hate is a mask for fear. To express hatred toward a threat is to acknowledge fear of that threat. Our culture is gripped by fear. And thus we transform objects of fear into objects of hate. That threatens the objects of hate and the feedback loop begins. Should the government be involved in monitoring these groups and their members? Fear of big government is causing the rise of the militia movement. The government targets the militia movement, which in turn targets the goverment. It's another vicious circle. Another feedback loop. And it's all driven by fear. How would you deal with instances of domestic terrorism? By overcoming fear. Look to the sources of fear. Look to the Amygdala. That's the brain's\"Department of Horror Assessment.\" We live in a Stephen King culture. The Amygdala is pumpingout Horror-Moans, sending our brains into recurring paroxysms of terror. Incidentally, I predict the next round of terrorism in the US will be modeled after NATO's attacks in Yugoslavia. I predict the next round of terrorism will be attacks on our techno-infrastructure. Instead of spilling blood, those angry at the US will begin spilling transformer oil, targeting power substations, microwave towers, bridges, aqueducts, and other vulnerable elements of the US techno-infrastructure."}, {"response": 129, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Aug 16, 1999 (06:14)", "body": "Oops.. Failed to close the %lt;PRE> tag properly."}, {"response": 130, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Aug 16, 1999 (06:15)", "body": "Yapp needs an EDIT feature."}, {"response": 131, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Sep 20, 1999 (12:42)", "body": "Barry, since you posted something about hate crimes - have I ever mentioned where Neo-Nazis get their ideological literature from? These people do info warfare since decades, just using postal means up to now... In a place somewhere in the US (Massachusetts?) called Lincoln is a group called NSDAP-AO (AO for Aufbauorganisation). There, fascists of the NS flavor from all over the world order the goods they crave - which, in the case of e.g. German Neo-Nazis are items that are by law illegal to possess or trade in Germany. You get stickers there, Hitler's Mein Kampf, and all kinds of propagandistic pamphlets. But production and distribution or these items are not illegal in where it happens, actually, it is considered a liberty to have that happening. It is a crime in Germany, though. This is e.g. documented in the annual German Verfassungsschutzberichte, the reports of the Verfassungsschutz, which has the task of protecting the German Federal constitution (Grundgesetz) from attacks by fringe-groups of any political flavor. This always made me wonder about liberties and social preferences (we had - on different topics - this arguement before). Often, when discussing this with Americans, I find that the restrictions Germany put up here are honestly frowned upon. Limiting freedom of speech, etc. Hmh. Perhaps you can help me shine some light on that."}, {"response": 132, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Sep 20, 1999 (20:43)", "body": "I can tell you that Lincoln MA is about 8 miles from where I live (in Bedford MA). As I become older and wiser, my opinion of government declines steadily. I suppose most Americans consider the Fascists and the Nazis evil. But now more and more citizens are beginning to have second thoughts about American government, too. One American in 135 is now in prison. That's the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world."}, {"response": 133, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, Sep 20, 1999 (20:45)", "body": "There is another new forum for discussing the Orenda Project. Please join us at FoofyCafe at MuseNet."}, {"response": 134, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (11:53)", "body": "Wow, you live right where the folks are! Know what? Their third-best buddies in Germany, fascist party NPD, have their HQ about 12 km from where I live. Don't worry about the incarceration rate, Barry! Cheer up, mate! It ain't so heavy - I guess Stalin and Hitler had higher rates... So y'all don't too bad in comparison!"}, {"response": 135, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Tue, Sep 21, 1999 (11:55)", "body": "Hey, research the figures, and recycle that argument - should resonate strongly with anybody who has a shred of democratic nerve and wake them... Hehe, what a neat phrase."}, {"response": 136, "author": "moulton", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (07:43)", "body": "I have fascists living in and running my condo here in Bedford."}, {"response": 137, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (07:55)", "body": "Explain, please."}, {"response": 138, "author": "moulton", "date": "Wed, Sep 22, 1999 (16:53)", "body": "It's explained on my web site . The condo association was hijacked by an evil cabal of corrupt crooks. That's why I'm so dispirited."}, {"response": 139, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Fri, Sep 24, 1999 (12:23)", "body": "Barry, my man, you's gotta watch that lingo thang! What makes that \"evil cabal of corrupt crooks\" fascists?"}, {"response": 140, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (09:58)", "body": "They make up rules beneficial to themselves and then deliberately damage anyone who doesn't obey them."}, {"response": 141, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (13:30)", "body": "Wait, that's CAPITALISM for ya, but fascism? Surely not! Your people at least give you a chance to comply to their rules, so they are equal-opportunity-crooks. Fascists generally don't offer such options. Use of loaded termini doesn't help to solve or defuse such situations."}, {"response": 142, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (14:12)", "body": "Point well taken, Alexander. Loaded language stirs the pot and turns up the heat in a discussion."}, {"response": 143, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sat, Sep 25, 1999 (17:38)", "body": "They didn't always give us a chance to comply. In some cases they just stole money from the treasury to fund illegal activities."}, {"response": 144, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sun, Sep 26, 1999 (05:05)", "body": "Yes, of course - you SAID crooks, right? But these are equal opportunity bastards, so to speak. Anybody ruthless enough can join them, right? Or do they discriminate by heritage, nationality, ethnicity? Hey, Nan! How's things? Yep, loaded language. Something that belongs into the box \"Takes one to know one\", I guess. ;=}"}, {"response": 145, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Sep 26, 1999 (08:47)", "body": ""}, {"response": 146, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Sun, Sep 26, 1999 (14:47)", "body": "And boy, do I know what YOU mean!"}, {"response": 147, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sun, Sep 26, 1999 (16:09)", "body": "I just think it's tacky."}, {"response": 148, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Sun, Sep 26, 1999 (22:18)", "body": "You should know, Alexander. ;)"}, {"response": 149, "author": "aschuth", "date": "Mon, Sep 27, 1999 (12:32)", "body": "What tacky means? Or why Barry thinks capitalism is fascism is tacky? Or what the Conference Admin said? Or what a bullshitter is? How things are? Yeah, I guess I *DO* know... Next! vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 21, "subject": "German student poll on vc's", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  9, 1999 (17:26)", "body": "my name ist Bettina Maisch, I study communication in Berlin. And I really do hope that you can help me ;) Two friends of mine and me are writing on a research paper about finding your \"homecountry/motherland\" in the virtual communities or in the Internet. That's why we are searching for EVERYTHING related to this issue. We are especially looking for comments, surveys, hints on literature or sites in the web, with focus on this subject. We have also created a little questionnaire. We would kindly like to ask you to answer these few questions and send it back to us. We really would appreciate your help. Before you start to think about these questions, you should know, what we mean, when we are talking about \"homecountry/motherland\". In Germany we have a term called \"Heimat\" that is translated to English with the term \"homecountry/motherland\". But \"Heimat\" actually has a different meaning than only \"the country, where a person was born\" and there is more behind this word than only a geological meaning. When we are talking about \"homecountry /motherland\" we also mean the feeling of \"belonging to a place\" or the impression of \"living a satisfying life in this place\". Those feelings of \"Heimat\" don't always root in a certain geological place, these feelings can also be the result of a functioning friendship or relationship. Hopefully you understand what we mean by the expression \"homecountry or motherland\". And here are the questions: 1. What do you associate with the term \"homecountry/motherland\"? And what do you think about \"homecountry/motherland\" concerning the Internet? 2. Do you actually think that it is possible to find a piece of \"homecountry/motherland\" through the Internet? 3. Can you imagine to find your homecountry/motherland\" in the Internet? (Maybe in the future. You can use your fantasy!) 4. How could the Internet influence the search for a \"homecountry/motherland\" or how could the Internet offer a solution in order to find homecountry/ motherland\"? You can send your answers and hints for more information to: mailto:tina_maisch@yahoo.de Thank you very much for your help. Yours Julica, Christopher and Bettina. === Bettina Maisch mailto:tina_maisch@yahoo.de Wer sich fuer nichts mehr begeistern kann, verschrumpelt innerlich. Unbekannt"}, {"response": 2, "author": "moulton", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (18:29)", "body": "Someone should put them in contact with Eva Kulda."}, {"response": 3, "author": "moulton", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (18:29)", "body": ""}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Sep 10, 1999 (22:49)", "body": "I just did their questionnaire in Eudora and sent it out. Any idea how from many Springeurs they have heard? vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 22, "subject": "collaborate '99", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "moonbeam", "date": "Thu, Sep 30, 1999 (15:38)", "body": "You can register online or sign up to be kept informed. Registration information is located at We hope that you will join us by registering at the website Something fell out, I think... Do you have the URL for this website, Terry? TIA."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 30, 1999 (16:01)", "body": "http://www.odnet.org/collaborate99 vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 23, "subject": "info on other vc's", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "infospryte", "date": "Sun, Oct  3, 1999 (10:03)", "body": "Howard Rheingold, a leading figure within online communities around the world, will be live on BBC Online to answer your questions, on Monday 4 October between 8.30pm and 9.30pm. Send your questions in advance using the email address below! Howard Rheingold is a widely respected author, speaker, and online community developer. He is the author of numerous books and has traveled the World giving talks about the value - and pitfalls - of online communities. Rheingold has nearly 15 years' practical experience building online communities and was one of the founder members of The Well. Earlier this year, Howard was invited to deliver a keynote speech at a conference organised by the BBC and attended by leading industry figures, politicians, and those interested in developing networked communities in the UK. His speech, titled \"Community Development and the Cybersociety of the Future\" is available in Real Audio and as a transcript at the Partnerships Online site, an organisation working closely with BBC WebWise on a new community networking initiative. Following this chat, participants will be invited to continue the discussion on the new WebWise message board forum. Email your questions now to: liveanddirect@bbc.co.uk ----------Links---------- Chat with Howard Rheingold, 8:30pm BST Monday 04 October (3:30pm EST) http://www.bbc.co.uk/liveanddirect Howard Rheingold BBC Communities Day Speech: http://www.partnerships.org.uk/bol BBC WebWise: http://www.bbc.co.uk/webwise Howard Rheingold's website and book \"The Virtual Community\": http://www.rheingold.com/ vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 24, "subject": "open source democracy - led by the Dutch", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Jun  1, 2000 (07:36)", "body": "Wonder what's the latest on this?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun  3, 2000 (23:20)", "body": "Never heard of it - do you think Google.com or Northernlight.com can tell us anything?! I'll search for it. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 25, "subject": "books, articles and resources", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Jun 29, 2000 (08:14)", "body": "From Jun 27 LA Times: From today's LA Times: Author Connects Joining In With Joining the Ranks of the Content Political scientist says lack of group activities is hurting society. He launches 'a great crusade' to turn back the tide of alienation. By DOYLE MCMANUS, Times Washington Bureau Chief Robert D. Putnam has a cure for what ails American society--three cures, actually: new rules to let working parents spend more time with their families; more extracurricular activities at school; and more groups, from Rotary Clubs to amateur brass bands, to get folks out from behind their computer screens. Putnam, a Harvard political scientist, believes he has identified a central crisis of our time--the decline of group activity. Not only are Americans voting in smaller numbers than before; they are also joining fewer bowling teams, attending fewer PTA meetings, even eating family dinners together less often. And that, Putnam says, is making us less happy, less healthy and less wise. Five years ago, Putnam published his findings in an obscure journal under the memorable title, \"Bowling Alone.\" His article struck a national nerve that American life was becoming too disconnected. Now Putnam has expanded his argument into a book, also called \"Bowling Alone.\" And he has launched what he unashamedly calls \"a great crusade\" to turn back the tide of alienation and get Americans to start joining groups again. The centerpiece is a five-year program to study experiments on civic reengagement in more than 30 cities and towns, including Los Angeles. It is an effort to find out what, if anything, can persuade Americans to reconnect with each other. To promote his argument (and his book), Putnam is traveling the country, giving lectures, signing books, and exhorting citizens to join something--anything. (He's in Los Angeles today.) If you've ever wondered how new ideas are spread, here's one way: a lone professor, all fired up, talking his way from one city to another. (Well, not all that lone; Putnam has an endowed professorship at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, more than $1 million in funding from the Ford Foundation and other philanthropies, and a Web site.) Putnam's basic idea, presented in a flood of arresting statistics, is not only that Americans are falling out of the habit of doing things in groups, but that this change is a serious problem--and that it can be reversed. Some of his evidence is well-known, like the decline in voting and other political activity (64% of voting-age Americans voted in 1960, only 49% in 1996). More intriguing are what Putnam calls \"informal social connections.\" The proportion of married Americans who usually eat dinner with their families has dropped since 1977 from 50% to 34%. \"Picnics per capita,\" a number he found in marketing surveys, have plummeted by 60%. And while more Americans are bowling today than ever before, membership in leagues has tanked; instead, people are bowling alone (or, at least, in small, informal groups). The consequence, Putnam argues, is not only an increasingly disconnected society, but also increasing individual malaise, physical illness and even suicide. By joining just one group--a garden club, a political movement--you can cut your risk of dying next year in half, he says. So it's worth trying to fix. Last year, Stephen Goldsmith, the Republican mayor of Indianapolis, asked Putnam for three things politicians could do to help promote civic and social activity. Putnam's reply: \"First, there's a package of education reforms we could make. We know things that work. We know that extracurricular activities in school increase civic participation later in life--and we've just gone through a period of school boards cutting their funding for extracurriculars. We know that small is better, that smaller schools promote more participation. We know that community service works, when it's well-designed. \"Second, we need to think about ways to create blended virtual and real communities\"--to encourage people to use the Internet as a tool for connecting with each other and forming new groups, rather than merely as \"a kind of nifty television set\" for solitary use. \"Third, we need new rules for work, community and family.\" The massive move by women into the labor force \"had a profound effect on family life and community life,\" Putnam notes. \"It has created major problems in terms of day care and elder care. But in terms of labor law and labor practices, we still talk about those as personal problems.\" He adds: \"Barring an economic catastrophe, the most important issue in American politics will be this. Everybody feels passionate about\" these issues. \"They'd like time off with their kids.\" There has been one disappointment: Putnam hasn't found a politician willing to take up his ideas and run with them. \"A politician who can tap into this need and provide solutions will go a long way,\" Putnam said. He's talked with aides to both Vice President Al Gore and Texas Gov. Geor"}, {"response": 2, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Jun 29, 2000 (08:16)", "body": "and David Silver's cyberculture course listing resource is excellent, and has relevance to the course development project forming on Spring right now. http://camden-www.rutgers.edu/~wood/445syl.html Full listing at: http://www.otal.umd.edu/~rccs/courses.html"}, {"response": 3, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Mon, Jul  3, 2000 (21:42)", "body": "Gerrit Visser in the Netherlands has collected an amazing set of resource URLs on online community (all as a volunteer effort). Check them out at http://virtualcommunities.start4all.com/ A series of articles on VC appeared last week in the Washington Post. Here is one (and the links to the others are in a box in the article.) http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20831-2000Jun29.html"}, {"response": 4, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Tue, Oct 17, 2000 (07:43)", "body": "URL: http://www.infonortics.com/vc/vc2/present/vcconf2000.html Infornortics Virtual Community Conference Proceedings, September 19 - 20, 2000 Contains: DAY ONE - Tuesday 19 September Opening Keynotes Peter Friedman, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Talk City, USA Building E-Relationships: Brand Communities Online Steve Glenn, Chief Executive Officer, PeopleLink, Inc, USA Developing Community for Business-to-Business Sites SESSION ONE. BUILDING AND PRESERVING COMMUNITIES Sue Thomas, Director, trAce Online Writing Community, Nottingham Trent University The Writing Community: How the Web is Giving Rise to New Creative Opportunities Cristina Godio, ISTUD, Istituto Studi Direzionali, Italy Building a Virtual Professional Community: The Case of POOLWEB.IT Tony Rockliff, Founder and Producer, Cybertown, blaxxun interactive, Inc, San Francisco, USA How to Keep People Coming Back to Your Community Manuel Perez, Oracle EMEA, Madrid, Spain. Infoville: A Successful Model of a City Portal SESSION TWO. TOOLS, STRATEGIES AND WAYS FORWARD Camilo Wilson, Founder, Cogix Corporation, USA Gathering Community Views with Voting, Polling, Quizzes, Ratings and Surveys Mark Bunting, Infonic Ltd, London Community Monitoring: Mining Community Content for Better User Relationships Matthew Hall, Director of Business Development, Firetalk Communications, USA Giving Communities Voice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DAY TWO - Wednesday 20 September Opening Keynote Lynn Clater, Director of Community Development, CNN Interactive, USA The challenges for strong community building SESSION THREE. CORPORATIONS AND BUSINESS-TO-BUSINESS Andrew Gray, Managing Director, Sift Group plc, Bristol Communities as platforms for the formation of B2B Net Markets Cliff Figallo, FuturizeNow, USA Preparing Corporations for Community Dawn Yankeelov, Vobix Corporation, USA Customer Relationship Management Tools for the Virtual Community Model Sylvia Lacock Marino, Virtual Communities Consultant, USA Measuring Community Success on Commerce Sites Kam Singh, European Sales Director, Siebel Systems, USA Online Dynamic Commerce in Virtual Communities SESSION FOUR. MODELS AND GUIDELINES FOR VIRTUAL COMMUNITIES Jenny Preece, University of Maryland Baltimore County, USA Building Successful Online Communities through Good Usability and Sociability Donald Klein, ingenta Ltd, Bath Web Strategies for Publishers: Choosing the Business Model for Developing an Online Community Portal Joseph P Cothrel, Participate.com, USA Virtual Community Today and Tomorrow: Markets, Mobility and Beyond Serena Doshi, Neo1, UK Online Community: It's all about people Bill Thompson, UK Conference overview and summary vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 26, "subject": "Where are virtual communities headed?", "response_count": 9, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Jun 29, 2000 (08:30)", "body": "Visit and respond to this url if you have time. http://www.aauw.org/5000/commun.html"}, {"response": 2, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Thu, Jun 29, 2000 (08:31)", "body": "And this one as well. http://muse.jhu.edu/demo/journal_of_democracy/v006/putnam.interview.html"}, {"response": 3, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Thu, Jul  6, 2000 (20:04)", "body": "OK Now what?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Fri, Jul  7, 2000 (13:01)", "body": "Not sure, but I am doing what I can in Geo conference (as you doubtless know). As for the entire community of Spring...it evolves as new member interact with the old members, bringing new ideas. Getting new and interesting people to join seems to be the crux of the problem. My efforts in this have taken an odd direction but it has brought new blood here just to lurk. I am delighted to see you posting!"}, {"response": 5, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (00:13)", "body": "I don't know what Geo is. I've been a member here for almost three years btw."}, {"response": 6, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (00:13)", "body": "I find the software almost unbearable."}, {"response": 7, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (01:37)", "body": "Yapp is the software we love to hate until you manage to come to terms with it. please check http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/geo/all/ It was my attempt to tame Yapp"}, {"response": 8, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (14:13)", "body": "Aha! So that is where the action is."}, {"response": 9, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, Jul  9, 2000 (15:30)", "body": "Feel free to post anything which comes to mind. I would be honored to have you do so! vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 27, "subject": "What Happened to Topic 18? Privacy and publicity Online -- seeking a balance.", "response_count": 17, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Jul 19, 2000 (23:56)", "body": "Let me check....in my limited capacity....brb"}, {"response": 2, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, Jul 19, 2000 (23:58)", "body": "Try this http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/vc/18 I was right where it was supposed to be but still visible to all. Aloha"}, {"response": 3, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Wed, Jul 19, 2000 (23:58)", "body": "Thanks Marcia Is Terry the only one with sysop powers here?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Wed, Jul 19, 2000 (23:59)", "body": "You slipped. I don't understand what you are saying? It is still word readable? Or not? How come it doesn't appear on the list?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:01)", "body": "It is readable to me. I am a conference host so I have some powers casual posters do not. I think Terry and William are the only two with sysop powers on the Spring. Checking list - you mean your hotlist or the complete list of conferences?? brb"}, {"response": 6, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:03)", "body": "The complete list of topics in this conference. I did notice the URL has changed. So I guess you did get Terry to change something?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:03)", "body": "it is on the complate list on http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/index select it and it will appear on your hotlist on Main"}, {"response": 8, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:04)", "body": "Aloha oh Conference host one! I still hate this software!! No edit! No spellcheck! No delete! AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHh"}, {"response": 9, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:04)", "body": "beats me... it is still there for me to read... and is likely there for public as well (those not logging in)"}, {"response": 10, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:05)", "body": "And thanks"}, {"response": 11, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:06)", "body": "Ack! Another slip! Will check. Thanks for the help."}, {"response": 12, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:07)", "body": "You're quite welcome...*smile* It is visible to the public as well. To have it restricted I think you need the conference called Utne Cafe... if it still exists..."}, {"response": 13, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:07)", "body": "Yep still word readable. Oh well. The Net is strange sometimes or maybe its JUST ME"}, {"response": 14, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:12)", "body": "Oh, btw, Yapp software is the sort you love to hate. But it does have its lovable side - I did almost all of Geo (after I was left there on my own) with it..."}, {"response": 15, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (00:12)", "body": "Nope, NOT you!!! *Big compassionate Hugs*"}, {"response": 16, "author": "fxmastermind", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (10:30)", "body": "*blushing*"}, {"response": 17, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Thu, Jul 20, 2000 (10:49)", "body": "*smiling* vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 28, "subject": "incentives for vc members", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 29, "subject": "Online Learning Communities", "response_count": 3, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Jan 20, 2001 (16:37)", "body": "I hope our esteemed colleague, Americ, contributes here as he built the distance learning program for Golden Gate University. Here are some great examples: Denham Grey's Distance Learning Link Page (Denham is THE linkmeister!) http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?DistanceLearning Denham's Knowledge Community Page http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?KnowledgeCommunity Learnitivities' Learning Community Page http://www.learnativity.com/community.html Internet Time's Learning Community Page http://www.internettime.com/itimegroup/community.htm"}, {"response": 2, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Jan 20, 2001 (17:13)", "body": "http://www.elearningpost.com/elthemes/comm.asp Building Online Learning Communities Maish & Venkat http://www.elearningpost.com/elthemes/groove.asp (peer to peer community building tool)"}, {"response": 3, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Jan 20, 2001 (17:16)", "body": "Americ's new place is http://TheKnowledgeLab.com/ where he's creating and encouraging a group of discussions built on the socratic spirit. And he's a teachinga class of 500 at UC Berkeley with mixed in internet video. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 3, "subject": "VCs as a Business (including Education)", "response_count": 37, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug  9, 1997 (07:13)", "body": "Continuing with Bryan's stuff, you can check out Athena Prep Academy at http://www.athena.edu . The key to having a successful VC as business is to entice folks to use it, the infrastructure part is very workable as we have shown on the Spring with our evolving conferencing interface. You need a good mix of folks who can keep conversations going and stir up ideas. Now, we're talking about \"niche communities\". An example of this is the recently formed 'bronte' conference here which has a nice mix of folks who are passionately interested in talking about the Bronte sisters. I believe this is a good model for other niche communities forming. We have a 'cars' conference that is multilingual composed of folks who are fervent about a particular make/model of car. Keys to success of business vc's are good hosting, management interest in the public areas, well thought out policies, and a lot of nurturing. It would also help to have a team of crack designers and professional hosts. Another area that is largely untapped is technical support, oftentimes customers can support each other via a conferencing environment. A good evolving example of this is our 'apps' conferencing that provides forums for about 350 software companies and is linked to all the reviews that Forrest Stroud writes on his renowned software review site at http://www.stroud.com . And this is 24x7 support, hard to pay for that level of support isn't it?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep  3, 1998 (04:10)", "body": "credit a mysterious Kerri for this research: BUILDING COMMUNITY FOR BUSINESS SITES Tipster, \"Online Communities and E-Commerce,\" Webcentric, 12/2/97. Online communities help create repeat visits and can improve customer intimacy and add to E-Commerce sales. Six insights for creating \"lasting bonds.\" http://www.webcentricman.com/html/i_tip_ec_community_1297.html Laura Miller, \"Building Online Communities (that Sell),\" Manufacturing Marketplace, 3/24/98. Michael Barrett of GeoCities discusses his firm's model to attract segmented groups, and then form them with a combination of encouragement and economic factors. Sees communities as providing low-cost content for business sites. http://www.manufacturing.net/dc/mm040398v.htm Matt Carkci, \"Be a Destination,\" NetProfit, 4/5/98. To bring people to your site without high costs, recommends becoming a destination site by forming an online community, and by developing content appreciate customers of your niche market. http://www.netprofit-mag.com/issues/980405/980405.htm Kevin Jones, \"Community Gives Rise To Commerce,\" Inter@ctive Week, 5/11/98. Business-to-business companies Tradecompass and Questlink Technology are adding e-commerce capabilities to their sites to take advantage of the information-exchange communities they have built up over the past year. http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/printhigh/51198/extra511.html"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 12, 1999 (06:30)", "body": "There was an article in the Wall Street Journal (January 6th (page B6) on virtual communities. It's a survey of community web sites. The hype lead quotes Media Metrix research as saying \"Community sites are one of the fastest-growing categories of WEb sites\". They present 5 categories of such sites: - Web-Page Building - Chat and Message Boards - Your own VIP Room: The Virtual Velvet Rope (for private web page sections and chat rooms, doesn't really consider private conferences) - Content and Services (mentioning Excite, Yahoo, MSN, Moms ONline and SeniorNet) - Shopping and cashing in (sites that let you set up links to online sellers and Xoom.)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Tue, Jan 12, 1999 (13:44)", "body": "terry thanks for pointing out that article. i have been interested in different ways to categorize the new interactive web sites and this should help."}, {"response": 5, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Jan 13, 1999 (18:09)", "body": "Terry: Who would you like to see The Spring be more like? Generally speaking of look, feel, services offered, etc..."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 14, 1999 (05:52)", "body": "I'd like to see more users! More users=more content and at some point it means we get off the launching pad. We need more interesting sub pages that folks can visit and clearer navigation."}, {"response": 7, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Thu, Jan 14, 1999 (09:49)", "body": "terry, have you ever considered using another conferencing tool besides yapp? i really really like Caucus ( http://screenporch.com) . it is super simple for users and presents a very nice UI. another option, that i am very seriously considering, is to rewrite the interface we use here on the spring."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 14, 1999 (14:22)", "body": "We used Caucus here for about two years. It's still in the archives."}, {"response": 9, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Thu, Jan 14, 1999 (15:27)", "body": "no way!!! i didnt know that. so any thoughts on going back to it?"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 15, 1999 (05:50)", "body": "Well, it's very expensive and Yapp seems to be very stable. It would be a major change. But we did use it for the first couple of years we were online. It was a whole different era with different players. You can read the stuff from this period in the \"archives\" on the Spring's main page. ECHO uses Caucus, and one of the first conferencing systems I participated in, MetaNet, used it. It has some interesting features, but I've come to like Yapp better. Of course, I haven't looked at the latest incarnation of Caucus with the web interface. I think we could customize Yapp with scripts to do the features that Caucus has, and both are linear as opposed to threaded conferencing."}, {"response": 11, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Fri, Jan 15, 1999 (10:01)", "body": "that brings up a coupla good points. first, the latest version of caucus has an absolutely gorgeous web interface. it is really easy to use too. you can see it by going to screenporch's web site and surfing thru their demo setup. one potentially bad thing about caucus is that the telnet interface sucks rocks. that may not be such a problem since only 3 or 4 of us telnet in, but still. anyway, if you like yapp better terry, then i agree with you, since you da man. i think we definitely need to work on upgrading the UI for yapp."}, {"response": 12, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jan 15, 1999 (10:02)", "body": "telnet, web or both, Ray?"}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 15, 1999 (10:32)", "body": "Caucus does both. ECHO has been pretty successful with it. I'll give it another look and see what the costs would be, both in terms of programming, relearning and actual dollar costs."}, {"response": 14, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Fri, Jan 15, 1999 (16:06)", "body": "me, i telnet in about 95% of the time. when i do web, it is generally to cut and paste info into the science conf, which i need to so soon here. terry, i will be very glad to be your caucus admin, free of charge. i know a lot about the system, and can pop up to cedar creek when i have to."}, {"response": 15, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Jan 16, 1999 (18:59)", "body": "Or, Austin. What's their demo website? caucus.com?"}, {"response": 16, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Sat, Jan 16, 1999 (21:34)", "body": "http://screenporch.com"}, {"response": 17, "author": "wer", "date": "Sun, Jan 17, 1999 (23:09)", "body": "what I meant, Ray, was which Yapp interface do you think needs more work, telnet or web?"}, {"response": 18, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 18, 1999 (08:24)", "body": "Well, telnet is so limited to a few folks, but it's so awesome. The world at large is web crazy."}, {"response": 19, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Mon, Jan 18, 1999 (09:58)", "body": "web, definitely. i've been reading the admin guide that comes with Yapp (admin_guide.ps) to decided where we should begin."}, {"response": 20, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 18, 1999 (10:14)", "body": "How did you read that postscript file, what did you use?"}, {"response": 21, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Mon, Jan 18, 1999 (11:07)", "body": "i use ghostscript on Linux. you should be able to snarf a copy of ghostscript for you boxen, terry. it allows you to not only view a document in an X window, but also to print it to a non postscript printer."}, {"response": 22, "author": "wer", "date": "Mon, Jan 18, 1999 (22:31)", "body": "well, the web interface (and re-arranging it) is what I'm most familiar with, and Kaylene is great about answering questions...in fact, she has scripts for me to install here, but the only way I know how to do so causes bugs in some of them... what do you have in mind?"}, {"response": 23, "author": "wer", "date": "Mon, Jan 18, 1999 (22:45)", "body": "hey, Ray, can you \"translate\" that document into plain text and put it up on it's own page(s) somewhere around here and give me the url and/or just convert it to a text file and put it up on here somewhere so I can ftp it here? I've never gotten to read that documentation, if it's the one I'm thinking of..."}, {"response": 24, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Mon, Jan 18, 1999 (23:00)", "body": "there is no easy way to translate a ps file into anything readable, wer. let me take a look around and see if i can locate a converter. if you are on a windows box, i believe there is a port of ghostscript for windows. the admin guide file is titled \"Yapp 3.0.13 Administration Guide.\" it is about 40 pages long and has the following sections: 1. introduction 2. getting started 3. user administration 4. conference administration 5. configuring the look and feel of the bbs 6. log files 7. troubleshooting Appendix. Man pages if you guys want, i can snail mail a copy of the document to you."}, {"response": 25, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jan 19, 1999 (08:31)", "body": "That would be very cool. Put me on that snail mail list. If you could get it in to Adobe Acrobat format so we could put it on the website, that would be awesome. Then it would really be world readanble and intact in the format it was intended."}, {"response": 26, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Fri, Jan 22, 1999 (10:00)", "body": "I'd love to have a hardcopy, Ray!"}, {"response": 27, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 22, 1999 (13:21)", "body": "This is that topic I couldn't find the other day. http://www.acquireedknowledge.com is the program that helps with pdf creation. That clipping of Daniels is still sitting next to my computer at home."}, {"response": 28, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sat, Jan 23, 1999 (13:50)", "body": "Ray: What do you think are the biggest negatives with the Yapp web interface?"}, {"response": 29, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Sat, Jan 23, 1999 (20:15)", "body": "the only negative aspect of it is that it is not laid out well. there is either too much stuff on one page or not enough. also it just doesnt look real purdy. this is all just my own useless opinion, of course. on the plus side, yapp is very fast and easy to maintain and use."}, {"response": 30, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jan 24, 1999 (13:33)", "body": "cool...what you mentioned is relatively easy to change..."}, {"response": 31, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Sun, Jan 24, 1999 (13:43)", "body": "which page(s) do you think are laid out poorly?"}, {"response": 32, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Wed, Jan 27, 1999 (10:45)", "body": "the main menu page and the conference home pages mostly."}, {"response": 33, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Wed, Jan 27, 1999 (15:00)", "body": "main and browse, gotcha...what are your recommendations?"}, {"response": 34, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Wed, Jan 27, 1999 (20:43)", "body": "hmm, thats a good question... how bout http://screenporch.com for starters?"}, {"response": 35, "author": "visitor", "date": "Wed, Jan 27, 1999 (23:24)", "body": "I can make main look like that, no problem!"}, {"response": 36, "author": "ratthing", "date": "Thu, Feb  7, 2036 (03:24)", "body": "http://www.tripod.com/explore/computers_internet/yourlife/columns/macdonald/980402.html a good article on virtual communities."}, {"response": 37, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb  3, 1999 (14:12)", "body": "Great, I'll check it out. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 30, "subject": "The refugee question", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 16, 2001 (10:38)", "body": "http://www.WorldCrossing.com/ is serving as a refugee landing pad for much of the Table Talk population that doesn't want to join the WELL, and I'm wondering if we should get in to a role like this? Forums at The Atlantic and The American Prospect are also in this domain. Table Talk Refugee Central is here: http://www.worldcrossing.com/WebX?13@@.eeb939b It points to all the places TTers have dispersed to, both inside and outside of WorldCrossing."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 16, 2001 (10:42)", "body": "They list these \"Other Net Forums\" The Atlantic Monthly Cafe Utne The Mote PeoplesForum The Rabbit Hole The Rant Readerville"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Aug 23, 2001 (11:26)", "body": "Today could be a black Thursday for watadoo@well.com and either one of the vc's he's been involved in building over the last 3 years. AOL acquired both Winamp and Spinner 2 + years ago and although their audio streaming is deemed important( they mined their technology and content to build an AOL client radio), their outside of the AOL client Web sites, content and editorial staff, and communities are not really much of a blip on the AOL radar screen. Today the heavily anticipated layoffs are going to be announced. Bigwigs flying in from NY and Dulles to talk about synergy, going forward, market shares and pink-slips. \"Fear and loathing,rumors and panic are running like a spring-swollen river. Both the Winamp community (40,00 members) and the Spinner community (1,200 or so) are on the block. Most of us have been drinking steadily all week, waiting for this morning to dawn. I find out in 3 hours if we live, or if I get to go back to work on a couple of laid aside novels.\""}, {"response": 4, "author": "moulton", "date": "Mon, May  5, 2003 (13:04)", "body": "See also AlterNet Forums which, like this site, can be read without registering. Fresh Press is essentially dead, what with \"Alex Delacruse\" vanishing from Cyberspace as of last December and his Motet Board adrift, with new registrations disabled. Poets and Writers Speakeasy is still operating, but in Panel Mode, meaning no one can post without being added to the Panel by Dana Davis. Many of the refugees from other dysfunctional Motet sites are in the process of opening yet another dysfunctional Motet site in the wake of the anticipated demise of Fresh Press. Peoples Forum is yet another WebX site with some overlapping users from WorldCrossing . Finally, there is another site, The Perfect World which runs on the new Limelight Community Software."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, May  6, 2003 (09:36)", "body": "What discussion forums are you most active in, Barry?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "moulton", "date": "Sun, May 25, 2003 (14:38)", "body": "Right now, none."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, May 29, 2003 (10:01)", "body": "What would it take to capture your interest? What are you looking for in online discussions? Could we facilitate it?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "moulton", "date": "Thu, Jun  5, 2003 (20:07)", "body": "That's a good question, Terry. I'm not sure what I'm looking for anymore. I'm disturbed by the direction our country is heading, but just palavering about it doesn't seem very helpful. They palaver about it plenty on AlterNet, to little avail. In the end, I just end up clenching my teeth all the more. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 31, "subject": "Jon Lebkowsky, a vc kind of guy", "response_count": 6, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 26, 2001 (09:44)", "body": "Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:18:01 -0600 From: Jon Lebkowsky Reply-To: cyberdawg@lists.io.com To: Cyberdawg List Subject: jonl's blog [ The following text is in the \"iso-8859-1\" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the \"US-ASCII\" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] Shameless self-promotion: a lot of the stuff I'd have sent to the cyberdawg list in the old daze I'm posting instead to the weblog at http://www.polycot.com/~jonl/weblogsky.html all da best, Jon L. Jon Lebkowsky Polycot Consulting jonl@polycot.com ~ http://www.polycot.com"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 26, 2001 (09:46)", "body": "MSNBC's Brock Meeks talks about online civil liberties: \"Anthrax, Afghanistan, al-Qaida, Ashcroft and anti-terrorism legislation. We aren\ufffdt even through the first letter of the geopolitical alphabet before jumping all the way to \ufffdS\ufffd as in \ufffdscrewed\ufffd as in what\ufffds happening to civil liberties in the online world.\" posted by jon lebkowsky on 10/25/2001 10:26:59 AM | permanent link to this entry Media Education Foundation's Beyond the Frame includes dissident American thinkers and activists commenting on \"the end of the world as we know it\" (aka September 11, 2001). Comments are in RealPlayer audio or video, and text transcript. posted by jon lebkowsky on 10/25/2001 10:10:41 AM | permanent link to this entry"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 26, 2001 (09:47)", "body": "Yer boy jonl has been offline while bouncing between Colorado and Texas - long steady drives over less-traveled backroads connecting the People's Republic of Boulder with the crowded lumpy streets of Austin. ms. jonl and I are planning a move back to Texas, away from the mountains (the only purpose of which, I figure, is to obscure your view of the desert... right?) In fact we dig the mountains and could imagine a cabin life, buried in snow all winter, hibernating with the snoring black bears... but duty, in the form of Polycot Consulting LLC, calls. And there's lots happening in Austin, so we won't be bored! And I've acquired a zippy notebook for traveling, so this blog is hereby revived! posted by jon lebkowsky on 10/20/2001 07:46:31 AM | permanent link to this entry"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 26, 2001 (09:49)", "body": "Polycot Focuses on Open Source San Marcos, Texas - (Sep 08, 2001) Polycot Consulting LLC, located in the Austin-San Antonio corridor of Central Texas, has announced its commitment to \"Open Source\" core solutions. According to the Open Source Initiative's home page (www.opensource.org), \"The basic idea behind open source is very simple: When programmers can read, redistribute, and modify the source code for a piece of software, the software evolves. People improve it, people adapt it, people fix bugs. And this can happen at a speed that, if one is used to the slow pace of conventional software development, seems astonishing.\" Polycot provides consulting, analysis, web development, and software development services. The company plans to integrate Open Source certified solutions wherever possible, leveraging the expertise and integrity of the Open Source community, and adding value by customizing and configuring solutions to fit specific needs. \"We won't invariably use Open Source solutions,\" says CEO Jon Lebkowsky. \"Some clients may have requirements that can't be addressed by Open Source software, or they may prefer that we incorporate software that isn't Open Source. And, of course, we'll have to construct some products from scratch. In general, though, we think Open Source solutions are stronger, better-documented, and better-supported than proprietary solutions. Polycot was formed this August by Lebkowsky, Matt Sanders, and Jeff Kramer, who have over twenty five years in combined experience with interactive technology. \"The actual entity formation was handled in August and early September,\" Lebkowsky says, \"but we were meeting regularly all summer to decide how we wanted to work together. Matt was doing site development in Italy, so we held the majority of our planning meetings online. The result of these meetings was a clear business plan and a set of decisions about preferred technologies. It was apparent from the beginning that we all shared an understanding of the advantages of working within the Open Source community. A key part of Open Source is its mutually supportive nature - developers helping each other do the best work possible for their clients and customers. It's a win-win philosophy of collaboration.\""}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct 26, 2001 (09:50)", "body": "Polycot folks: Jon Lebkowsky Chief Executive Officer Jon Lebkowsky brings to the job of CEO over a decade of experience on the leading edge of interactive technology, including extensive experience with online communities, business and system analysis, and software project management; three years as CEO of FringeWare, Inc., and four years managing web technology development for retail e-commerce and application services. He has written articles for Wired, HotWired, Mindjack, Mondo 2000, Fringe Ware Review, Whole Earth Magazine, and the Austin Chronicle. He was twice President of EFF-Austin, and is a member of The Internet Society, the Association for Computing Machinery, and the Project Management Institute. Matthew Sanders Director of Operations Matthew Sanders blends a background in traditional media production with over eight years of online experience, both in virtual communities and network-based development. He encountered his first programming language at age eight and hasn't looked back, gaining fluency in a host of languages along the way: Java, C, Perl, PHP and other web-specific technologies. The past two years have found Matt consulting in the European Union and the Continental US, assisting in the design and implementation of site architecture that is secure, scalable, efficient, and robust. Jeff Kramer Director of Technology Jeff Kramer parlays more than six years of experience in the technology consulting business, including a year as CEO of 57th Street, Inc. He is well versed in a multitude of tools and platforms including Solaris, FreeBSD, Perl, PHP, Javascript, SQL, MySQL, Informix, Oracle and Apache. Jeff's work has been featured in Wired Magazine and quoted in the Austin Chronicle. When not occupied with system administration he works on graphical design and multimedia production projects. An accomplished world traveler, Jeff enjoys the musical stylings of Yoko Kanno, and writing of Neal Town Stephenson. Honoria Starbuck Human Factors Specialist Honoria is an instructional designer with specialization in usability and accessibility. Honoria holds a Master's Degree in Instructional Technology and is currently writing her doctoral dissertation in distance learning on the effects of the Internet on a 30-year-old community of international artists. Honoria is the creator of the award winning first Internet opera. Honoria focuses her talents as an artist, educator and qualitative researcher to increase effectiveness of interface designs through goal analysis, needs assessment, and usability testing. rachel nation Web Designer rachel nation has been creating web sites since she founded online design firm arts electronica in 1994. She has designed numerous ecommerce web sites for companies including DELL Computer, MicronPC, Agillion, living.com, and Wholefoods.com. Texas Monthly recognized rachel's accomplishments in 1999, and her interactive Room Designer won recognition at last year's SXSW Interactive Festival. rachel attended Rice University for her BA and BFA and earned her Master's degree in Information Science at the University of Texas, Austin. Her web designs are known for their elegance and emphasis on useability. Adam Powell Web Developer Adam Vincent Powell is a Web developer and production guru. He has over six years of experience designing Web and software interfaces for companies such as HotWired, WebMD, Hitachi, LEGO, America Online, Logitech, and GE. Powell has discussed the finer points of making quality Web sites as a panelist for Jupiter Communications, South By Southwest, North by Northwest, Geekapalooza, and Webzine. He's been quoted on the front page of The Wall Street Journal, as well as in the pages of The New York Post, The Atlantic Monthly, The Industry Standard, Reason Magazine, The Austin-American Statesman, and the San Francisco Chronicle. In April 2001, he was pictured on the cover of eCFO magazine."}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jan 23, 2002 (09:55)", "body": "URL: http://polycot.com/reports/ecocom.php Author: Jon Lebkowsky Date: Jan 02 The article comes from Jon's recent presentation at MacWorld. For the MacWorld event info see: http://cf01.tscentral.com/RCM20/IDG_MACWORLD_SFO_02/attendee/confplan_attendee.cfm?login=guest vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 32, "subject": "Virtual Workplaces", "response_count": 4, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 22, 2001 (17:25)", "body": "Virtual Workplaces What is the suitability of tools like Webex, erooms and Netmeeting for real online collaboration? Blackboard and WebCT are other tools. The other ones at http://thinkofit.com/webconf/forumsoft.htm are Facilitate, Groove, and iManage These are all pretty expensive. http://www.ewenger.com/tech/index.htm is a relevant link. Supporting Communities of Practice: A Survey of Community Oriented Technologies I recently have looked at learning management systems which are also morphing into team tools. Then there are: www.erooms.com www.intranets.com www.learningspace.com (hm, I think that is the IBM brand, not the url) Intranets.com used to have a free low volume option - not any more... Learningspace is http://www.lotus.com/home.nsf/welcome/learnspace Groove is still pretty much a \"work in progress\" it has been known to bloat your Windows registry nearly beyond redemption (beware!). Check out Bernie DeKoven's reviews on http://www.technography.com ? Also webcrossing has a new wrapped version called Teamcrossing. See also http://www.optecs.com The list of tools with descriptions at http://www.coworking.com/html/tools.html is very useful! http://www.mimerdesk.org/ is an open source product. http://www.teamspace.de Another one I've seen is Community Zero http://www.communityzero.com/ looks to be a combination of several of the kinds of free services which are available elsewhere"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 11, 2002 (11:56)", "body": "OVERVIEW: Collaborative Technologies & Processes 2002 URL: http://www.icohere.com/ctp2002 CTP2002 is an online seminar that will help you gain an understanding of the growing options to enable collaboration for teams, communities of practice, learning communities, and other mission-oriented groups. Presentations & discussions with leading practioners from Hewlett-Packard, Lucent, PlaceWare and other companies and consulting firms will provide you with the strategies, frameworks, and tools to identify, assess, and select the right collaboration technologies and approaches for your work group, business unit, or organization. Spread out over 5 business days, most sessions are asynchronous (not everyone attending at the same time) allowing you to attend at any time that fits your schedule, day or night. Cost: $75 USD Dates: January 28 - February 1 Location: online using your web browser Online Information & Registration: www.icohere.com/ctp2002"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 11, 2002 (11:56)", "body": "Also Etienne Wenger/John Smith's online workshop on communities of practice starts 1/28 as does my/Mihaela Moussou's Facilitating Online Interaction class. URLS; http://www.fullcirc.com/ws/onfaccourse.htm http://www.ewenger.com/edu"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Jan 11, 2002 (12:58)", "body": "Variations on email based communities. http://www.tightcircle.com http://www.icohere.com vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 33, "subject": "ryze.com", "response_count": 9, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 21, 2002 (08:02)", "body": "http://www.ryze.org is the address. Some folks I know are already there (Will Kreth, Jon Lebkowsky, Arabella Clausen, there is a home city search in something called pivot according to Leb' and I intend to make that the next thing I try. They have tribes. One thing we lack on the Spring is a place for peoples bios and I'm thinking about setting up a conference called 'bio' where each topic would be a persons bio with their picture and inforamtion about their interests."}, {"response": 2, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul 21, 2002 (13:30)", "body": "is this the latest in \"networking\"?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 21, 2002 (13:35)", "body": "Yep, this is the latest, greatest, hottest, hippest, coolest game in town."}, {"response": 4, "author": "wolf", "date": "Sun, Jul 21, 2002 (16:48)", "body": "and it's free for now, 'ey?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Jul 21, 2002 (20:24)", "body": "Free for the most part, you have to pay for some of the advanced features."}, {"response": 6, "author": "arabella", "date": "Sat, Aug  3, 2002 (13:45)", "body": "Ryze is pretty good, but there is some controversy about their current privacy policy, so you might want to read that before joining. The owner, Adrian Scott, is supposedly revising it to make it more... community friendly."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug  5, 2002 (10:08)", "body": "What kinds of contacts have you made on ryze, arabella? Has it resulted in any business opportunities, etc.?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 25, 2004 (09:31)", "body": "Ryze is an online business network. Here's what Scott Allen has to say about Ryze, at http://onlinebusinessnetworks.com Ryze Website: Ryze.com Summary: Ryze is a general-purpose business network community, offering highly customizable personal profile pages and both private messaging and public discussion areas. Ryze also emphasizes face-to-face networking, offering monthly get-togethers in many major cities. Membership: Over 50,000 members Membership is worldwide, with the majority of users in the United States, and a large user base in India. There are also large concentrations of users in Silicon Valley and New York City. Membership is extremely diverse, including entrepreneurs, high-tech executives, authors, freelancers, job seekers, sole practitioners, work-at-home parents, artists, musicians, actors, and many in outward-facing corporate roles, such as marketing, sales, and business development. The latter group may be less visible, as they tend not participate in the discussions as much, but they are there. Launched: October 2001 Founder/CEO: Adrian Scott. Adrian was previously a co-founder of Flycode, and has been an investor in several startups, including Napster and Giganet. He is a contributing author to six major Internet books, including World Wide Web Unleashed, Inside the WWW, CGI and HTML Unleashed, and Java Unleashed. Corporate Overview: Founder Adrian Scott is the most visible member of the Ryze team, and is the technology visionary as well as business leader. Chief Operating Officer Ken Scott, stays out of the limelight, but handles much of Ryze's business development and other special projects. Andrew Kraft . President of Executivity and co-founder of the Associatio of Internet Professionals (AIP) also serves as Ryze's VP of Events, helping coordinate and develop the Ryze business networking mixers worldwide. Ryze is known for running \"lean and mean\", and is one of only a handful of companies in the social networking space that is currently profitable. Ryze currently has three sources of income: Gold memberships, local networking mixers, and classified advertising. They are exploring other sources as well, but tend to move cautiously in making significant changes to the service. Adrian admits to having been approached by a number of investors, but remains tight-lipped about any details. So far has been turning them away, opting for maintaining control and bootstrapping Ryze's growth with proceeds from their profitable operations. Fees: Basic membership: Free Gold membership: $9.95/month, or $99.95/year Gold membership provides a number of enhancements, most notably: Search for users based on profile elements (see below for more) Pivots (quick hyperlinks to lists of people with the same profile attribute as you, i.e., common interest, same city, etc.) Ability to create and moderate one network (a group centered around a discussion forum) Discounts on Ryze mixers and other events Use of a simple web editor (allows non-technical users to easily format and add hyperlinks in their messages) Description: The Ryze community offers a variety of tools for both public and private contact. Major features include: User home pages \ufffd The home pages provide a moderately robust profile, including basic demographic and historical information, and fields for interests and industry where you can write whatever you want. You can also upload multiple photos, and Ryze uses them extensively throughout the site, adding to the very personal feel of the site. Users are also given an area of the home page to customize as they choose. It can be as simple as plain text or as complex as an entire web page, although it is still presented within the profile page. This gives users ample room to tell about their business and personal interests, or even link to multiple businesses and other projects. As a result, Ryze profiles, when done well, have more personal character than those found on other sites. Guestbooks \ufffd The home pages also contain a guestbook, allowing visitors to the page to leave a quick, publicly-visible message. They are best used to call attention to successes and other special events of the owner, i.e., \"Happy Birthday\", \"Congratulations on...\", etc. Unfortunately, in spite of Ryze's policies, they are often used by visitors for self-promotion, if not out-and-out spam. Friends list \ufffd Members can send a request to other members to be added as a friend. If the other person agrees, you are listed as each others' friends. The list of someone's confirmed friends is visible on their home page. Ryze also uses these records to show how you are connected to someone when you visit their page, by displaying the shortest connection paths at the top of that member's page. And the Ryze home page displays both the most recent friends of friends and a few randomly selected ones. Different people have different ideas of what constitutes a \"friend\". Some people only consider friends to be people they have met in person, "}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb  1, 2005 (06:56)", "body": "NEWS Coming in the next 2 weeks... threaded message boards, home page server logs! http://www.ryze.com/ TIPS Get as many as 30,000+ impressions when you place a featured classified ad on Ryze! http://www.ryze.com/posts.php What could you do with 3 Networks on Ryze? - 1 for general discussion and chat - 1 for moderated and focused discussion - 1 private Network for a select group http://www.ryze.com/upgrade.php FEATURED EVENTS Thursday Feb 10 6:00 pm Ryze Dallas Networking Mixer - RSVP now! 9+ already signed up! http://www.ryze.com/ed.a?eid=17426 vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 34, "subject": "smart mobs", "response_count": 9, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul 23, 2002 (09:09)", "body": "This phenomenon is showing up among teens in tech meccas like Tokyo, where wireless text messages have caught on in a big way. American hip-hop fans, using two-way pagers, spontaneously appear for parties. And in Finland, members of a local cooperative mix the virtual and the physical by communicating via pagers and cellphones to meet at their club. It's not all fun and games. Smart mobs in Manila contributed to the overthrow of President Joseph Estrada in 2001 by organizing demonstrations via forwarded cellphone text messages. Protesters at the World Trade Organization gathering in Seattle in 1999 were able to check into a sprawling electronic network to see which way the tear gas was blowing. Or they could use the network to determine their preferred level of involvement: nonviolent demonstrations, civil disobedience or mass arrests. The Sept. 11 terrorists used such devices to plan and coordinate their attack, and the victims used them to convey information \ufffd and, in the case of United Airlines flight 93, learned of the other attacks and took action that may have prevented even more devastation. from the above quoted NY Times article"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul 23, 2002 (09:29)", "body": "Jyri Engestrom, however, would not agree. He is a founder of Aula, a three-year-old cooperative in Finland that provides a physical meeting place to augment the virtual community. The city already had Internet cafes when the group started, he said. \"What was missing was not a new Internet cafe,\" he said, \"but a community, or network\" where artists, business people and geeks could meet, talk, share ideas and have fun. Mr. Engestrom said the group planned to expand to other places as well, including a local cafe. Aula now has nearly 500 members, he said, with radio frequency ID tags that let them into the Aula meeting space and let others know they are there. \"We're using digital technology in our case to enhance community-building in the wild, in the physical world,\" he said."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Jul 23, 2002 (09:36)", "body": "Howard Rheingold's article on this is the seminal piece. http://www.leocigar.com/maindesign.asp?aid=3405&gid=2080 Mobile Virtual Communities Publish date: 20.08.2001 By Howard Rheingold Five years from now, the innovations of today's early adopters could become part of the everyday lives of hundreds of millions of people: Jyri Engestrom is opening a social club (pdf) in the middle of downtown Helsinki that combines physical location, virtual community, and sms messaging. In Stockholm, Styrbjorn Horn has created a mobile chat platform for teenagers who already use sms to \"swarm\" as social groups in the physical world. Last Monday, Rickard Ericsson's \"Lunarstorm,\" a virtual community that has captured the attention of more than 60% of Sweden's 15-25 year old population, added a mobile extension to its web-pages, bulletin boards, and chat rooms. Lunarstorm now provides its own SIM cards to enhance its mobile services in ways they couldn't with traditional operator agreements. LunarMobil works like an ordinary mobile operator with one important difference; the company provides you with a unique \"remote control\" for your Lunarstorm-presence and activities. Anything you could do on www.lunarstorm.se, you could do from your mobile phone using standard SMS-messages."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jul 24, 2002 (10:48)", "body": "I joined upoc.com today and signed up for a few mobs. My upoc address is springnet@upoc.com I think if you send email there it will pop up on my cell phone."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jul 24, 2002 (11:01)", "body": "I started springmob, you can join it on upoc.com"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Jul 24, 2002 (11:05)", "body": "group name: springmob group email: group-springmob@upoc.com group url: www.upoc.com/group.jsp?group=springmob group description: spring.net mob online virtual community Colin Firth and Jane Austen discussions dominate"}, {"response": 7, "author": "arabella", "date": "Sat, Aug  3, 2002 (13:40)", "body": "Oh, I'll check that out. How many members do you have so far?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug  5, 2002 (10:09)", "body": "I'll have to revisit it to see. I joined, and then unjoined a bunch of Austin mobs (when I saw how lame the conversation was!)."}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov  2, 2002 (09:01)", "body": "Seattle newspaper: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/artsentertainment/134566711_smartmobs01.html When the majority of the world's urban population is constantly connected to each other and the Internet via cellphones, laptops and even cybernetic accessories, are we diving headlong into a dystopian, \"Blade Runner\" future? Howard Rheingold argues emphatically no in his new book \"Smart Mobs: The Next Social Revolution\" (Perseus, $26), eschewing the usual dire predictions while examining the many new forms of group interaction facilitated by always-on Internet and cell networks. Cooperation is the underpinning of the origins of society itself, he says, and is no less a part of emerging digital culture. Rheingold's tone of almost unrelenting optimism permeates this worldwide examination of changes in social and political order under way through such simple technologies as short-text messaging with cellphones and low-power wireless networks set up by activists and hobbyists. If spam doesn't take over and if mobs turn out 'dumb' we're in for a less optimistic future. So far, I've had to turn off the mobs on my cell phone as there's too much going on with it now and the mobs definitely aren't 'smart'. At least the ones Howard recommends. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 35, "subject": "Linear conferencing alternatives", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Aug  5, 2002 (14:58)", "body": "Here are some options I found on http://www.thinkofit.com/webconf/forumsoft.htm http://www.arborior.com http://www.e-zonemedia.com/fusetalk/ http://www.qksrv.net/click-60261-10581 http://www.asp-dev.com/board/ http://www.unixpapa.com/backtalk/ http://www.thewebmasterforums.com/ http://www.caup.washington.edu/software/conferweb/ http://www.discusware.com/ http://www.ikonboard.com/ http://prattle.sourceforge.net/ http://www.smallpig.net/sporum/ http://www.teemz.com/ http://venice.sourceforge.net/ http://www.zorum.com/ vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 36, "subject": "Austin virtual communties besides spring.net", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 20, 2002 (03:55)", "body": "http://www.austinmama.com/ \"connecting and celebrating Austin's varied community of thinking mamas\". This won the 2002 Texas interactive media award for acheivement in technical creative innovation. Who's your mama? from their website In the beginning, there was a severe case of writer's block and a weakness for purchasing domain names. And it was good... except for the wallet. Next came an idea: why not open an accessible, 24 hour community center for Austin mamas who are hungry to connect -- a sanctuary against isolation, loneliness and estrangement. But why stop there? Why not ice the cake with rich, quirky, soulful images by Austin artist Sarah Higdon? Why not support local writers by featuring their essays, fiction and poetry? Why not guarantee that the work will be absent of the absolute crap and treacle sometimes shoveled to mamas on a daily basis by people who think a woman's brain is delivered attached to the placenta? And why not spotlight some neighborhood mama-heroines and the work they do while we're at it? Sounds good, eh? We thought so too. What we ended up with is AustinMama.com -- a long overdue, one of a kind, cyber- haven tailored especially for Austin's thinking mothers; a place to talk freely, be chal- lenged, trusted, validated and respected for the gifts we mamas give so abundantly, and recog- nized for the hard work we do every day."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Aug 20, 2002 (04:46)", "body": "Topic 66 [texas.ind]: virtual communities based in Austin and Texas #2 of 5: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Tue Aug 20 '02 (02:26) 16 lines http://www.austincityclub.org/ According to their main web page: You live in a democracy YOU can make a difference! The government has tremendous power over our lives, but who controls our government? Do you make a difference? Can you make a difference? An eighteen percent voter turnout at elections suggests many people question whether their participation makes any difference at all. Do you have thoughts about our region you would like to express? Do you feel there are adequate forums for you to share your thoughts? Would you like more information about the issues and trends that concern you so that you can be a better-informed citizen? Topic 66 [texas.ind]: virtual communities based in Austin and Texas #3 of 5: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Tue Aug 20 '02 (02:27) 11 lines Outrageous. http://www.livejournal.com/~austincommunity howdy ya'll!!!! ok cow pokes and cow pies it's getting close to the end of the month and you know what that means? TIME FOR A BADASS PUNK SHOW!!!!! That's right coming to you strait from down town Austin we got a perfect line up to make your ears bleed and your mothers cry after you come home drenched in some fat spike punk's sweat...... Hell I'll sweat on you myself it's all good, just go to the show it's going to be badass!!!!!!!! Topic 66 [texas.ind]: virtual communities based in Austin and Texas #4 of 5: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Tue Aug 20 '02 (02:31) 53 lines With reference to the above badass community, the Electric Daisy rave got canceled this past weekend but another one got organized impromptu style in an unregulated region of the County and resulted in one Ecstasy death. Bad, bad press for these bad boys. Before all this bad stuff happened, one of the posters at the above community noted: Before people begin jumping to conclusions, there are alot of details regarding the cancellation at the Expo Center. For one thing, ELECTRIC DAISY CARNIVAL IS STILL GOING ON at a new venue. Details posted later from Ark, I'm sure. Keep an eye on www.electricdaisycarnival.com for full venue info. The issue with the cancellation is pretty sad. Travis County pulled the rug out from under Ark's feet with a small loophole clause that states that insurance permits must be submitted within 7 days of the event. Travis County Sheriff's and the Expo staff had a meeting planned with Ark on Friday of last week, at which point they were going to go over all the last minute detials of the insurance permit and more. At the very last second, TRavis County postponed the meeting till Monday. When Ark arrived on Monday, the Sheriffs tried to serve Noah with papers due to an unsettled debt from last year's Airport. When he tried to pay the debt on the spot, they told him the show was cancelled due to the insurance clause. No questions asked. When he argued, they threatened to arrest him for criminal trespass and told him to leave the premises. Ark Entertainment spent the remainder of the week battling in court to secure the Expo Center. They've contacted just about everyone to help them in this case. Even the APD and DEA said they would testify on Noah's behalf, which is pretty surprising. Once the word was final that the cancellation would stand, they rushed about town and locked down another venue to save the festival. The shitty thing about this for me is that Noah and I have spent the last 8 months talking to APD, DEA, TABC and more to secure this show. Our main focus was to ensure that the city was behind us and that there were no unannounced \"busts\" or \"crackhouse\" antics to screw it up. To that aim, we were successful in getting the city to support the show. There has never been this kind of cooperation between city officials and promoters in Austin, possibly even Texas. But Travis County was never an issue because contracts were signed and they all seemed very supportive of the event. NOW, last second, the County pulls this loophole and cancelled the event without any negotiations whatsoever, which is seriously messed up. To his credit, Noah has worked his tail off for 8 months to make this party happen. Fortunately, there will still be a party. It just won't be happening at the Expo center. Topic 66 [texas.ind]: virtual communities based in Austin and Texas #5 of 5: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) Tue Aug 20 '02 (02:33) 5 lines So is the County the one that really messed up? And are unregulated raves a danger? I expect that discussion to rage through the austincommunity site. The article about the Ecstasy overdose/death was prominent in yesterday's snakeskin. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 37, "subject": "weblogs", "response_count": 11, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, May 20, 2000 (10:19)", "body": "Soem good eamples are http://www.benbrown.com and http://www.metafilter.com"}, {"response": 2, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, May 20, 2000 (23:40)", "body": "Terry, I checked them both out. Not my style I think. I like the sharing of ideas along with fun. Somehow they seems little bit wasted in there - or are just guys being guys..."}, {"response": 3, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sun, May 21, 2000 (09:42)", "body": "Yep, they're interesting but I like the continuity of what we're doing. We can develop friendships that go on for years. It feels solid."}, {"response": 4, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Wed, May 24, 2000 (18:14)", "body": "Indeed - that is what makes Spring so difficult to explain to outsiders. What we do here forms a very strong and unique bond. I know it would not be different were I to meet you in real life. It would just continue on. Very solid and very special."}, {"response": 5, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May 28, 2000 (01:38)", "body": "This one is from Minneapolis: Weblog for May 28: More on the little phone booth that could Gael Fashingbauer Cooper Star Tribune Sunday, May 28, 2000 Today in Weblog: An update on the Mojave phone booth \ufffd Newt's online wedding registry \ufffd Wedding cam and Loch Ness monster cam \ufffd Track a flight online ... Remembering veterans Last week I told you that the lonely Mojave desert phone booth, made famous by Godfrey Daniels' Web page, had been removed. There's now more info on what happened, and Wired, CNN, Tom Brokaw and other media types have picked up the story. Pacific Bell and the National Park Service actually issued a statement on the booth's removal. (Do you think their public-relations person ever imagined it would be part of his or her job to defend the removal of a phone booth out in the middle of nowhere?) Their explanation is that it wasn't the phone that caused problems, but the people tracking out to see the Internet icon. They put it this way: \"Increased public traffic had a negative impact on the desert environment.\" Tom Brokaw's (or his writer's) puckish answer was: \"In other words, despite 1.6 million acres of sand, cactus, Joshua trees and snakes, too many people -- 25 to 30 a week -- were tramping way out of their way to answer the phone.\" Daniels isn't giving up. On his site, he's posted a list of congresspeople, park service staff and others, and encourages booth fans to make their feelings known by writing or calling. Wired also reports that Daniels hopes to buy the booth from Pacific Bell and install it in another remote location. As for the booth itself: At last report, calls to it still go through, but ring on and on, unanswered. For now, there's a very sad photo on Daniels' site, that says it all. It's a picture of the site where the booth used to stand, empty except for some concrete blocks and a few pieces of booth debris. Yes, there used to be a phone booth, right here. Newt's wedding registry You know, it's got to be tough to be a public figure: You think you can enjoy all the benefits of the Internet, just like everyone else, but boy, you are sorely mistaken. Poor old Newt Gingrich, about to marry for the third time, just wanted to register for wedding gifts online. Not just at one store, but at two -- Williams-Sonoma and Macy's. Word of the registries leaked out and now folks are making fun of everything from the happy couple's choices (is a pizza cookbook the best thing for Newt?) to the mere fact that they've registered at all. (Newt's already had two weddings -- does he really still need kitchen supplies?) You can check out the ex-Speaker's tastes for yourself -- here's a link to the couple's Williams-Sonoma registry, and here's one to their Macy's registry. I'll refrain from getting too snarky, but I would like to point out: Four Ralph Lauren tub mats? Three really ought to be enough for anybody. With this cam, I thee wed Speaking of weddings, I finally saw an actual wedding on Wedding Cam. The site offers views from A Little White Chapel (no, really, that's the name of it) on the Las Vegas strip. Celebs who have been married at the chapel include Judy Garland, Frank Sinatra, Michael Jordan, Mickey Rooney, and Bruce Willis and Demi Moore. Like most of Vegas, the chapel is open 24-7, and the cam is always on. Usually it just shows an empty room with a half-dozen white pews, but I happened to tune in last week on Thursday night when an actual wedding was in progress. About six people were in attendance, the bride was wearing a simple sleeveless dress and clutching a small bouquet, and the groom looked a heck of a lot like Nicolas Cage in \"Raising Arizona.\" From my couch in Minneapolis, I raised a can of Diet Mountain Dew to the happy couple. I hope never to see them on Divorce Cam, if there is one, and I'm sure there is. If Web cams fascinate you, you'll want to check out the Discovery Channel's main page o'cams. Besides Wedding Cam, I like Puppy Cam and Kitten Cam, both located in humane societies and focused on cute li'l animals waiting for adoption. The puppies must be active little suckers, because whenever I tune in, the cam is always knocked askew or pointing directly at a wall (which might be a puppy's fur). Kitten cam never seems to change. Either that's one sleepy kitty or the cam is stuck on a frozen image. Other cams of interest include Body Cam, located inside Gold's Gym in Venice Beach, California; Manatee Cam, located in a 190,000-gallon pool at the Columbus Zoo; and Loch Ness Monster Cam, located -- well, at Loch Ness, Scotland. Duh. Track a flight It's a holiday weekend, and if someone you know is traveling by air, you can track their plane's progress from home. Flight Tracker is one of my favorite sites. Just enter in the airline and flight number and the site will show you a map pinpointing where in the air the plane is. Keep hitting refresh and it will keep advancing. Very valuable if you're fearing weather might delay the flight -- who wants to sit at the airp"}, {"response": 6, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sun, May 28, 2000 (01:41)", "body": "all of the above are in hyperlinks so you should access the Flight Tracker and such at http://www.startribune.com/viewers/qview/cgi/qview.cgi?slug=GFC528&template=column_weblog_a"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 30, 2001 (10:54)", "body": "http://powazek.com/wtf/"}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 30, 2001 (10:54)", "body": "jonl has moved his weblog to: http://www.weblogsky.com/weblogsky.html"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Apr  4, 2002 (15:00)", "body": "What's the best blog? For something you host on your own site Blogger http://www.blogger.com and Greymatter http://www.greymatter.com If that's not an option, try places like http://www.livejournal.com/ Other good starting points are http://www.blogyou.com/index.html http://jenett.org/ageless/ and http://weblogs.com/ And there's something called Moveable Type."}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct  9, 2002 (06:45)", "body": "A great and comprehensive examination of weblogs, it's academic and useful. http://www.highbias.com/reviews/20021006_live.html"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct  9, 2002 (06:46)", "body": "oops. http://radio.weblogs.com/0110772/stories/2002/10/03/personalKnowledgePublishingAndItsUsesInResearch.html is the correct url, that first one was left over on my clipboard from the music ACL topic! vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 38, "subject": "bookcrossing.com and meetup.com", "response_count": 9, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "autumn", "date": "Mon, Jan 20, 2003 (15:47)", "body": "What a fascinating concept, Terry! I'm going to surf over there and check it out asap."}, {"response": 2, "author": "admin", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 2003 (11:17)", "body": "Let us know your findings, ok?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "autumn", "date": "Tue, Jan 21, 2003 (16:16)", "body": "OK, I checked it out but--here's the horrifying part--you have to actually purchase books to make this work. After you read it, you post your critique to the website, put a special sticker on it that you print off the website, and leave it somewhere. Someone else picks it up, reads it, posts their thoughts, and leaves it somewhere else. It didn't appear to be a thing where you can post your comments about the same book if you've just checked it out of the library like sane people do. :-)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "admin", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 2003 (07:24)", "body": "We'll have to do it ourselves then, with no purchase requirement. Although we do have an Amazon program here and we love it when people buy books through us b ecause it pays the bills. It helps to pay for our server and our colocation fees! What would we need to do, autumn?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "autumn", "date": "Wed, Jan 22, 2003 (20:34)", "body": "Well, obviously, instead of passing around the same book, we could do it the old-fashioned way and all choose a book to read and discuss. Or, we could each choose a different book and post our thoughts in an individual topic diary fashion. Then we would read the books the others read and add our thoughts to their topics. Does that make sense?"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 2003 (10:08)", "body": "Yeah, it does. Fining a book we all like is the trick."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 2003 (13:25)", "body": "meant to say 'finding'"}, {"response": 8, "author": "autumn", "date": "Thu, Jan 23, 2003 (18:20)", "body": "Well, that's always the eternal dilemma."}, {"response": 9, "author": "wer", "date": "Fri, Apr 11, 2003 (08:19)", "body": "Make the Whole World a Library (sorry for the crosspost...*sigh*) Celebrate the Anniversary of bookcrossing.com On April 17th, 2003, join Austin area residents at Quack's on 411 E. 43rd St to celebrate the anniversary of web site bookcrossing.com. The concept behind the site is that you take a book you've read, register it at the site, put an identifying label on the book, then leave the book in a public place for someone else to find and enjoy. To celebrate this anniversary, Austin BookCrossers will have many books available for you to take home with you and enjoy...for FREE! We only ask that if you take a book, you visit the bookcrossing.com web site to let us know what you think of the book and whether you've released it into the wild again. We love to see the journey of each little message in a bottle! If you have a book you'd like to release at the event, bring it by and we'll tag it with a label. Better yet, sign up at http://bookcrossing.com/referral/AustinBXers before you come and tag it yourself so you can track its journey all over the world! When: Thursday, April 17th, 10:30 am - 8:30 pm Where: Quack's, 411 E. 43rd St What: Free books! Why: Because shared books are happy books For more information about this event, visit http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/AustinBXers or contact Nicole at nicole@nicole2112.com. Sincerely, Nicole2112 ( http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Nicole2112 ) vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 39, "subject": "craigslist", "response_count": 10, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 13, 2004 (15:47)", "body": "Craig Newmark gave a talk at SXSW Saturday March 13 \"The site ain't about me.\" Half a billion page views per month arond 4 million unique visitors per month Alexa: around 128th biggest in the world 23 cities job postings in SF sole source of revenue Forrester Research \"most efficient job site\""}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 13, 2004 (15:49)", "body": "Charge job posters in SF Bay area for job postings. Recruiters, considering NY and LA. State of the web People increasingly media saavy \"Human voice\" vs. \"Corporate voice\" AOL, MSN, Yahoo dominating net A few small alternatives to big media"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 13, 2004 (15:54)", "body": "New trends Blogs Social Software Electoral Process changing Legislative Process changing Moveon, consumers union, Dean campaign You can go to consumers union site and vote on things. They do mass email campaigns to state or federal officials. They do pay attention if the officials thing you're a constituent. http://escapecellhell.org The mundane is what really seems to matter in our lives. Trust Culture culture of trust, earned again every day high quality postings I take it personally Privacy, due process, law enforcement issues Community feedback results in changes Excellent customer service"}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 13, 2004 (16:00)", "body": "Customer Service customers great at helping each other out first line wants to do it right, need management support almost all disgruntled customers help you out engaged with customers, not \"black hole\" Community Self Moderation \"falg for review\" in ads automatic removal with enough flags democratic responsive hundreds of emails, phone calls per day"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 13, 2004 (16:04)", "body": "Getting 1.8 million ads per month Starting to use Social Networking Technology. Forum self moderation Problems: Scammers fake cashiers' checks fake air tickets deposits for nonexistent apartments real estate address harvester money wiring scams offshore operators"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 13, 2004 (16:10)", "body": "Problems Spam screen scraping / address harvesting spam sent to posters anonymous email relay email address obfuscation call spammers, get many small ones to stop flame bating in forums people try to start fights personality fights Problem: brokers in NYC brokers posting general apartments section people in NYC want them in their own section working on it ... work in progress I call them to discuss it Also unethical brokers, apartment list vendors Big deal in Manhattan."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 13, 2004 (16:26)", "body": "Trust Treat people like you want to be treated Earn trust again every day Moral compass? The Accidental Populist Craig Newmark mailto://craig@craigslist.org http://cnewmark.com/echo.chamber.ppt Justin Hall: what happens if you get hit by a bus? orchid, friendster, etc doig social networking and are you headed there? \"Casual encounters is great stuff\" - Justin Hall \"If I get hit by the N Judah, other people are doing all the specialized stuff. Onlpy the customer service people would be overloaded . . . not a big deal.\" Social Networking - trying to locate most esteemed people. Looking at orcut and http://friendster.com Orson Scott Card and Bruce Sterling talk about societies run like that, by people with the most esteem. Site has been up 9 years. Molly Steenson, whose Maxi changed Craigs life, asked about the next 8 years. Getting requests from Madrid and Paris. London \"toothing\" look that up, bluetoothing Adding image hosting. Want to have Craigslist where it fits in with cities culture."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 13, 2004 (16:28)", "body": "Re-emergent democracy in the US And \"idea whose time has come\"? Dean campaign Ferment in blogosphere Lots of smart and eloquent writers People of good will connecting via net ? Echo Chamber people preaching to the choir? votes? results? In trenches interact w/ tens of thousands of indvididuals some need medication line workers more in touch than management massed of people disillusioned with corporate culture and with govt, given up Trust works"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 13, 2004 (16:32)", "body": "You kids, get off my lawn Time to do something not as smart or eloquent as bloggers ... no time yet four experiments underway 311 customer service for local govt increased transparency and improvement increased job satisfaction and respect for city line workers eventual \"reinvention of government\" accountability / threat to middle management Mideast Peace OneVoice for moderates on both sides http://silentnolonger.org Westbank microfinance http://jazoor.org Personal efforts to get kids eye exams and glasses"}, {"response": 10, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar 13, 2004 (16:44)", "body": "effective email campaigns you fill in advocacy form for/against bill including address conventional poltics? everyone gets a place at the table Dean? Kerry? SF Democratic Clubs? (no personal interest in office) Party at frog design, Congress at 8th on West side. 804 Congress http://isismultimedia.com vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 4, "subject": "Net Gain by Hagel and Armstrong (VCs makin' big bucks)", "response_count": 6, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Aug  9, 1997 (07:56)", "body": "Motley Fool at http://www.fool.com is an extraordinary example of how two writers moved from an AOL forum to the web and have the stock investor community riveted on their site. They truly have gained the attention of stock investors who hang on their every move through comments in forums covering nearly every listed stock. The SEC even investigated them for potential stock manipulation. amazon.com or http://www.amazon.com is doing this with book buyers. They have this community nearly locked in. They started early and have a huge lead over the big guys like Barnes and Noble. You need \"seed users\" to get the thing started and to attract the voyeurs and \"lurkers\". And give the users a place for bios and homepage links like they do on Electric Minds and like we'll be doing here soon. Make it easy for the users to get to know each other and feel comfortable together."}, {"response": 2, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Wed, Sep 17, 1997 (18:07)", "body": "I've often thought that the most successful vcs came about as a result of a single-subject discussion. For example, the WELL really took off when the \"deadheads\" (Grateful Dead fans) were given accounts and their own conference."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Sep 17, 1997 (20:00)", "body": "Hmmm, who can we get?"}, {"response": 4, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Wed, Sep 17, 1997 (20:47)", "body": "Dunno...that's the thing. Another thing that helped the WELL, I think, is it's location and the fact that it started as a conferencing system *for the Bay area*. Geographical location was important in bringing the community closer together (the WELL meets, parties etc.) and also the fact that the Bay area is so dynamic anyway :)"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Sep 18, 1997 (20:59)", "body": "I'm doing some local network, I talked to Brigid Shea tonight, and she's a former city councilwoman and local mover/shaker who knows lots of people, she's just getting up to speed on her computer it sounded like. I need to do a lot more local networking, at least one event every night. I also talked to a guy at Apple in Austin who seemed real receptive and said the same thing you just said about the WELL. He thought that being a dial up isp helped the WELL get where it is today."}, {"response": 6, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Sep 19, 1997 (20:43)", "body": "Yeah, I think the dial-up probably helped too. Even *more* of a communal feeling if that's where you're getting your network access from. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 40, "subject": "ecademy", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 41, "subject": "orkut", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 42, "subject": "meetup", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 43, "subject": "tribe", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 44, "subject": "spoke", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 25, 2004 (10:14)", "body": "I tried spoke. It does a great job of searching your email and address book and identifying your most relevant contacts based on, I guess, the frequency you contact people. Makes sense. Something called SpokeSync does the initial work of extracting your contacts. Be sure to uncheck your Junk Email folder if you have one or you'll get a lot of junk contacts. Nothing worse than letting a spammer in to your inner circle. I just indexed 1893 total relationships. And I invited some folks to join me, Michael Flaherty, Bill Johnson, Donn Washburn, Clovis Riveiro, Greg Kenkel, etc. etc. You manage relationships in your SpokeBook which keeps track of your contacts, SpokeSync builds the SpokeBook. Naturally. Every contact has a little bar chart which shows their contact strength. Everyone's is pretty much the same to start. I'm not sure what determines this. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 45, "subject": "Online Social Networks", "response_count": 7, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2005 (07:13)", "body": "Program Outline Scan February 9 - 11, 2005 Introductory keynote Focus Areas open Meet & Greet Focus February 14 - 18, 2005 Focus Area sessions Author sessions Special events Act February 21 - 23, 2005 The Future of OSNs Focus Area Wrap Up Closing event ACT I: SCAN Introductory Keynote: Howard Rheingold and Lisa Kimball Join Rheingold and Kimball as they guide us on a wacky, wonderful ride through the early days of the Internet to today's explosion into the mainstream of online social networks. Don't miss this conference \"kick-off\" as they introduce you to pioneers in the field of online social networks as well as some of the current trendsetters now exploring the latest technologies and applications. Opening Sessions: Meet & Greet With The Pioneers! Meet and engage with these experts in interactive dialogue prior to their individual sessions and workshops! This online meet and greet is an exceptional and effective way to begin the conference networking, introducing yourself to other participants, and sharing your expectations for what you want to take away from the conference. Meet & Greet With: Joe Cothrel and Jenny Ambrozek, founder of SageNet LLC Karen Garcia, Venny Su, and Jeff Cooper Stephen Marquard, Stephen Marquard Consulting Tony Carr, Multimedia Education Group University of Cape Town Jerry Michalski, founder of Sociate Michael Stephens, Networked Resources Development Aaron Schmidt, Thomas Ford Memorial Library Scott Allen, Online Business Networks Andrea Baker, Rheingold Associates Caterina Fake, Ludicorp Research & Development Ltd. \"Flickr\" Denham Grey, Rheingold Associates Burt Lum, Ryan Ozawa, Dave Kozuki, and Sun-Ki Chai"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2005 (07:13)", "body": "ACT II: FOCUS FOCUS Area I: Organizational Social Networks Keynote: Howard Rheingold and Lisa Kimball What organizations are using them and why? What challenges and opportunities do they present? What are the practical applications of OSNs? Workshops & Discussions: Advanced Knowledge Practices In OSNs Hosted by Denham Grey Denham Grey will be sharing his experience of 'living' on-line for last 10 years on KM related bulletin boards, 'gated' communities, KM blogs (k-logs) and listserves. We will explore 'knowledge emergence' by being and doing, providing a deep personal experience of what OSN can be, how it helps enhance awareness, assists with information overload, provides entree to expert opinion and promotes seamless continuous learning. The following topics will be covered: Social affordances - profiles, yellowpages, blogs, wiki, RSS, games Distinctions - enhancing group understanding and building a shared language Patterns & pattern language - capturing validated experience within a community Persistent conversations - implications and relation to personal identity Weak ties - strategies for building a robust personal on-line network Flickr: Evolution of a Photo-based Social Network Hosted by Caterina Fake Flickr.com, the online photo management and sharing application, had an incredibly short timeline. Begun December 8, 2003 and launched into public beta February 10, 2004. Caterina Fake will walk us through the decision-making process, how Flickr enlisted user contributions to the design process and discuss how they arrived at the decisions that brought them to the current manifestation of Flickr.com. Exploring On-Line Tools For Collaboration Hosted by Karen Garcia, Venny Su, and Jeff Cooper This session demonstrates how learning environments are used by a global community of educators for the development of emergent collaborative activities. OpenSource for EDUCATORS -a central depository for software, and Educational Multi-User Virtual Environments (MUVEs) are showcased. This presentation will focus on Online Social Networks for personal, social and business use and will be hosted at Tapped In as a Virtual Learning Community. Learning from a Southern African Online Conference Hosted by Stephen Marquard & Tony Carr This presentation will report on the experience of preparing for, delivering and evaluating the e/merge 2004 online conference on collaborative blended learning in Southern Africa ( http://emerge2004.net ) which was initiated to promote the growth of educational technology communities of practice in Southern Africa. The presentation will include key issues such as design of conference spaces, technology choices and facilitation process. We will draw on conference statistics and feedback from delegates to consider improvements for e/merge 2005. WIKIS: A new collaboration infrastructure for organizations Hosted by Tom Mandel WIKIs are not just for geeks any more! Organizations are finding that this new technology is a way to create, share, organize, present and publish the collective knowledge of teams. WIKIs are emergent, transparent and allow direct action in ways that previous tools have not. Learn how WIKIs change the traditional models of managing knowledge and how they can support purposeful social networks. Audio Roundtable - Online Social Networks as a Nest for Communities of Practice Hosted by: Lisa Kimball, Executive Producer, Group Jazz February 16, 2005 - 12:00 noon (Eastern US Time) - timeanddate.com Join Lisa Kimball and Nancy White as they discuss online social networks as a nest for communities of practice. Call in live or listen to recorded audio. FOCUS Area II: Personal Social Networks Keynote: Joi Ito Explore how are individuals taking advantage of OSNs to promote their businesses and extend their personal networks Workshops & Discussions: Social Networking Hawaiian Style Hosted by Burt Lum, Ryan Ozawa, Dave Kozuki, and Sun-Ki Chai Hawai`i's idea of social networking is just another term for `ohana - the family unit.\ufffd Like so many things about the Web that are Hawai`i influenced, the term surfing the Web or the term Wiki, meaning fast or Akamai meaning intelligent. Panel discussion will include: Social networking in Hawai`i and the parallels to RL social networking Hawaiian style. Delivered through LearningTimes interface using the Elluminate application. Powerpoint presentations provided with audio accompaniment. Chat interface for audience participation Each session will consist of 45 minute presentation and 15 minute Q&A. Opening Doors and Closing Deals: Success Stories and Best Practices in Online Social Networks Hosted by Scott Allen and guests Forget the debates about business models. Forget criticisms about privacy and spam. The reality is that online social networks are working very well for many, many people in a variety of industries: the copy editor who gets 80% of her business on Ryze, the project management entrepreneur who closed four deals in just four months"}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2005 (07:14)", "body": "FOCUS Area III: Political Social Networks Keynote: Brian Reich Explore how political parties, politicians, and others have used OSNs to raise money, explore issues, and mobilize at the grassroots level Workshops & Discussions: Tools For Online Activism Hosted by Jon Lebkowsky A survey and discussion of the tools and how they're being used. Participants: Adina Levin, Dan Robinson (Advokit), Zack Rosen, Tanya Renne (OrchidForChange), Aldon Hynes (Greater Democracy, Deanspace, Civicspace) Extreme Democracy A more theoretical discussion of democracy mediated by technology. Participants: Joi Ito, Jon L., Mitch Ratcliffe, Joe Trippi, Jock Gill, David Weinberger, Nate Wilcox. Shaping Emergent Democracy Hosted by Chris Lang, President, The Organization for Collaborative Leadership The failure of state-sponsored networks relative to advocacy-sponsored networks suggests that emergent democracy is on track to destroy, rather than enhance, civic capital. The UW-Madison Collaborative Leadership Program hasdemonstrated that academic organizations are more willing and able to create anti-polarized networks because polarization also happens to limit pedagogical benefits. After a brief presentation about this model, we will synchronously and asynchronously discuss how network-builders can (and whether they should) reduce both their costs and their polarization by allowing academics to participate in network management. Session includes discussion in various related fields (MUDs, trust online, deliberation, collaborative interfaces, legal issues)."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2005 (07:14)", "body": "ACT III: ACT Audio Roundtable - Where do we go from here? Hosted by: Lisa Kimball, Executive Producer, Group Jazz February 22, 2005 - 12:00 noon (Eastern US Time) - timeanddate.com Join Lisa Kimball and a panel of diverse players for an audio roundtable on the future of social networking tools. What\ufffds hot now and what should you be tracking to get a handle on the future! Participants: Jerry Michalski, Britt Blaser, Brian House, and Kelly Larabee. Call in live or listen to recorded audio. Electronic Networking Association (ENA) - Twenty Years Later It's been twenty years since some of us started ENA to promote electronic networking in ways that enrich individuals, enhance organizations, and build global communities. We didn't use the term \"social networks\" then but that's what we were talking about for sure! A special ENA anniversary session will give us an opportunity to talk about what's happened over the past twenty years and what we've learned that can make a difference in the future."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2005 (07:14)", "body": "Guest Authors Howard Rheingold, author of Smart Mobs Lisa Kimball and Amy Ladd, contributing authors to Knowledge Networks: Innovation Through Communities of Practice Christian Crumlish, author of The Power of Many David Teten and Scott Allen, authors of The Virtual Handshake: Opening Doors and Closing Deals Using Online Social Networks Andrea Baker, author of Double Click: Romance and Commitment Of Online Couples more"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2005 (07:15)", "body": "Special Event Music, News and The Internet The music and news industry are going through radical transformation due to the increase in blogs, file sharing, etc. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Does file sharing hurt the struggling musician build grass roots appeal or hurt him by losing out on sales? Does it hurt the record industry or help by promoting music that is otherwise unheard due to corporate radio. Jazz blogger Oliver Wang www.o-dub.com Representative from Recording Industry Association of America Independent musician Roger Salloom www.rogersalloom.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cafe Take a break from conference proceedings to enjoy a virtual beverage with fellow participants and hosts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fun and Games Featuring HipBone games and more."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Feb  2, 2005 (07:16)", "body": "So, thar ya be. I'm trying to wangle an invite as the Spring and http://realsocial.com . . . I'm going to be making some kind of move in the social networking area. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 46, "subject": "community networks", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Mar  5, 2005 (18:19)", "body": "I just started a community network for the area where I live at http://www.i-neighbors.org You can do the same for your area. Here are mine: http://www.i-neighbors.org/78612/cedarcreek and http://www.i-neighbors.org/78602/bastrop vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 47, "subject": "del.icio.us", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 48, "subject": "43things.com", "response_count": 0, "posts": []}, {"num": 49, "subject": "spring alternate bbs", "response_count": 1, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "dot", "date": "Sat, Mar 19, 2005 (14:30)", "body": "http://www.phpbbforfree.com/forums/?mforum=spring vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 5, "subject": "Spring proposal to PBS", "response_count": 8, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct  2, 1997 (23:17)", "body": "wdf | people | guidelines | how to apply Deadline: Sunday, November 2, 1997 Midnight (New York Time) What kinds of projects will be supported? Only single websites will be supported by the WDF. (However, if you have ideas for \"series\" of web-only projects that are thematically linked, or for projects that combine broadcast and online elements, please send email to:stories@pov.org.) Sites may be about: - a specific public issue (e.g. abortion, immigration, culture wars), - private issue (e.g. self-esteem, divorce, addiction), - problem (e.g. race, war, acne), - or other subject of public discussion (e.g. media, paparazzi, Barbie Dolls) but they must bring fresh perspectives, giving participants opportunities (and encouragement) to go well beyond spouting, posturing and flaming. Although WebLab, the organization sponsoring the WDF, is a spinoff of P.O.V. Interactive, we are not simply trying to create a Web equivalent of P.O.V., the public TV series of independent documentaries \"with a point of view.\" We are very open to approaches that use humor, fiction (even science fiction!), in addition to straight-ahead non-fiction. As noted elsewhere on these pages, we're also much more interested in multiple perspectives that take advantage of the Web as a participatory medium, rather than one perspective. Sites may be linked to a particular event or date if appropriate (e.g. the anniversary of Jackie Robinson's first major league season; an election; a TV broadcast; the 4th of July, etc.) Projects may originate anywhere in the world, but English must be a primary language and the subject should be of interest to participants in North America. Since innovation is the goal, there are no categories, and we look forward to seeing at least a few proposals for projects unlike anything that's been done before! However, we have developed some \"model\" websites -- and identified others -- that encourage story-telling, substantive dialogues that continue over time, and other strategies for involving a range of people in exploration of public or personal issues. We encourage you to spend some time exploring these sites, not with the idea of duplicating them, but with the idea of thinking in new ways about the potential of the web as a social medium. Examples: Regarding Vietnam: Stories Since the War Hong Kong '97: Lives in Transition Ready to Live: Art and Life Beyond Street Violence Jerome B. Wiesner: a Random Walk through the 20th Century gURL Who is eligible to apply? Individuals and organizations may apply. Proposals are welcome from seasoned Web designers and developers who have project ideas that they've always wanted to do Individuals who have a compelling idea but have no experience in Web design Everyone in between. What kinds of support will be provided? In the first round, the WDF will provide selected projects with funds, guidance, technical support, design and programming services (if needed) and PBS Online will provide a host server with a variety of licensed technologies, including threaded discussion, forms submission, Java, streaming audio/video, and Shockwave. Support will average $25,000 or less but may run as high as $50,000 in cash and services for particularly exciting projects. You are expected to provide matching funds toward the total project cost, which may be some combination of cash and in-kind contributions. Finalists will be asked to document their ability to supply matching funds. We will also promote each site launched with WDF support, coordinating with each site producer. Because project funds are limited, organizational overhead costs cannot be covered by the WDF. What's the time frame? Because it will take several months to complete the selection and contracting process, we expect projects will begin in the early part of 1998. While the time to \"launch\" will vary depending on the complexity of the project, and we will want to schedule public launches of WDF sites so they will not conflict or compete with each other for attention, we expect most sites to take between 1 and 6 months to develop. Evaluation Criteria Project Purpose Potential for breaking new ground Feasibility Potential for stimulating involvement by a diverse group of people Appeal to a wide audience - potential for generating some excitement and energy Review/Selection Process Selection of projects will be made by the Executive Producer, in consultation with the Advisory Committee. Eligible proposals will first be reviewed by outside readers, who will evaluate them based on the evaluation criteria provided in these guidelines. WebLab staff will also read and evaluate all eligible proposals. Based on reader and staff evaluations, staff will prepare a list of finalist proposals. Finalists will be contacted for further information if it's needed at this stage. The WDF Advisory Committee will meet to review the finalist proposals and recommend projects for support. The Executive Producer and staff will then contact project directors"}, {"response": 2, "author": "donnal", "date": "Fri, Oct  3, 1997 (08:37)", "body": "I'm interested in healthcare and in healthcare information. You probably think that everything that can be said about healthcare has already been said, but think about this as a novel approach. I believe that one of the things that is yet lacking is a good conceptual model of healthcare that takes into account information theory and knowledge management. How about putting up a web site that describes the problem domain, lays out an initial structure, and allows contributors from many different disciplines to help construct the model? When I say different disciplines, I mean a wide base of subject areas, including topics as diverse as linguistics, mathematics, computer science as well as medical science, psychology, sociology and economics."}, {"response": 3, "author": "donnal", "date": "Fri, Oct  3, 1997 (08:40)", "body": "I tried to put some pseudo html tags in front of and after the previous post. These were apparently stripped off. I had hoped for it to say: \"brainstorming\" ... text ... \"/brainstorming\" except angle brackets in place of the quotes. :-)"}, {"response": 4, "author": "donnal", "date": "Fri, Oct  3, 1997 (13:17)", "body": "What about the issue of providing matching funds?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Oct  3, 1997 (23:12)", "body": "I don't know how they count this, the Spring has an operating budget of about $800 a month a pretty substantial investment in equipment. I'll have to research this aspect more. I could approach DELL, IBM, Apple and other local companies about providing matching funds possibly."}, {"response": 6, "author": "LorieS", "date": "Tue, Oct  7, 1997 (11:16)", "body": "Terry, it sounds to me like parts of the Spring already fit the criteria above. Do you have to launch a new conference to apply for this? You already have so many set up for discussion of personal issues -- and perhaps some publicity to get new people posting and talking is all that's required."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Oct  8, 1997 (00:06)", "body": "I'd like to get folks ideas on where we can go with this Spring. Give me you wildest, dreamiest ideas on what you'd like to see happen here."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct  9, 1997 (20:49)", "body": "treatise on cross-platform DHTML: http://developer.netscape.com/news/viewsource/goodman_cssp/goodman_cssp.html vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 50, "subject": "Berkana Exchange", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Mar 29, 2005 (13:23)", "body": "The web address is http://www.berkanaexchange.org/ Cliff Figallo is helping these folks."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Mar 29, 2005 (13:26)", "body": "One of these communities struck me, it's in Canada. Practices the Shire ... offers residential and non-residential programmes supporting Life-Affirming Leaders in their spheres of influence both locally and internationally practices and teaches sustainable agriculture, forestry, building, land management and traditional crafts creates opportunities for local emerging leaders to practice self-reliance and develop entrepreneurship skills supports local initiatives for community growth and development is a venue for local and international organisations and individuals working for the common good Coming Up in 2005 hosting a 3 month international internship programme in sustainable land management and self- reliant leadership hosting a 5 month local programme in sustainable land management, self - reliant leadership and entrepreneurship Shire vision day July 9th \ufffd What could the Shire also be? We are hosting international and local organisations and groups from June \ufffd October Programmes on Sustainable Building, Earth Education and Deep Ecology, Entrepreneurship, Community Leadership, Strategic Planning, Organic and Permaculture Gardens. Be welcome! Contact us at the Shire for more info, bookings and availability: +1 902 761 2736 tim@oftheshire.org vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 51, "subject": "Online community responds to New Orleans Hurricane Katrina disaster", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep  4, 2005 (19:00)", "body": "http://www.nola.com/hurricane/t-p/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1125283537138730.xml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina http://www.nowpublic.com/node/17228 http://www.deadlykatrina.com/ - a Katrina blog http://www.brendanloy.com/ - news aggregation http://katrinahelp.info/wiki/index.php/Main_Page http://neworleans.metblogs.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/katrina/ http://doc.weblogs.com/2005/08/31#theKatrinaTsunami http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=2&aid=87986 http://www.bobbyjindal.com/ http://slidell.weblogswork.com/ http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/ http://www.gnocdc.org/ http://blogs.opml.org/sdk http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9115913/#050829d http://www.newmediamusings.com/blog/2005/08/citizen_journal.html http://www.hurricanelivenet.com/ http://radio.weblogs.com/0121664/ http://www.katrinahelp.info http://www.itgarage.com/node/652 http://www.truthlaidbear.com/katrinarelief.php http://instapundit.com/archives/025235.php http://neworleans.craigslist.org/laf/ http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/2005_HURRICANEKATRINA_GRAPHIC/ > http://www.wlox.com/Global/story.asp?S=3782912&nav=6DJHduh7 http://blogs.msdn.com/saraford/archive/2005/08/31/458344.aspx blog http://sdk.typepad.com/trust/2005/09/hurricane_katri.html call out for http://katrina05.blogspot.com/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KatrinaAid/ Yahoo Group http://www.katrinahelp.info http://www.ojr.org/ojr/wiki/katrina/ \" https://ecs.wal-mart.com/CrisisComm/jsp/search.jsp http://www.highcontext.com/hcarchives/2005/09/02/associations-blogging-katrina/ http://katrinahelp.info/wiki/index.php/Main_Page http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003425.html http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003426.html http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003424.html http://www.radioreference.com/wiki/index.php/Hurricane_Katrina lists http://www.desktoplinux.org http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rcm/websphinx/ http://www.neworleansnetwork.org/ http://www.omidyar.net/group/katrinarefugee/news/0/ https://www.redcross.org/donate/donation-form.asp http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050829/ap_on_re_us/katrina_on_the_web http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003423.htm http://abcnews.go.com/US/Weather/wireStory?id=1076777 http://www.secondharvest.org/default2.asp http://www.habitat.org http://www.feedthechildren.org http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/USNSAHome.htm http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/USNSAHome.htm http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/news/katrina.cfm http://192.122.183.218/wiki/index.php/PeopleFinderVolunteer#How_to_help http://www.omidyar.net/group/katrinarefugee/news/2/"}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Sep  4, 2005 (19:02)", "body": "sorted version of Katrina online community resources: http://192.122.183.218/wiki/index.php/PeopleFinderVolunteer#How_to_help http://abcnews.go.com/US/Weather/wireStory?id=1076777 http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/ http://blogs.msdn.com/saraford/archive/2005/08/31/458344.aspx blog http://blogs.opml.org/sdk http://doc.weblogs.com/2005/08/31#theKatrinaTsunami http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KatrinaAid/ Yahoo Group http://instapundit.com/archives/025235.php http://katrina05.blogspot.com/ http://katrinahelp.info/wiki/index.php/Main_Page http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003423.htm http://neworleans.craigslist.org/laf/ http://neworleans.metblogs.com http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050829/ap_on_re_us/katrina_on_the_web http://radio.weblogs.com/0121664/ http://sdk.typepad.com/trust/2005/09/hurricane_katri.html call out https://ecs.wal-mart.com/CrisisComm/jsp/search.jsp http://slidell.weblogswork.com/ https://www.redcross.org/donate/donation-form.asp http://www.bobbyjindal.com/ http://www.brendanloy.com/ - news aggregation http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/news/katrina.cfm http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rcm/websphinx/ http://www.deadlykatrina.com/ - a Katrina blog http://www.desktoplinux.org http://www.feedthechildren.org http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/katrina/ http://www.gnocdc.org/ http://www.habitat.org http://www.highcontext.com/hcarchives/2005/09/02/associations-blogging-katrina/ http://www.hurricanelivenet.com/ http://www.itgarage.com/node/652 http://www.katrinahelp.info http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9115913/#050829d http://www.newmediamusings.com/blog/2005/08/citizen_journal.html http://www.neworleansnetwork.org/ http://www.nola.com/hurricane/t-p/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1125283537138730.xml http://www.nowpublic.com/node/17228 http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/2005_HURRICANEKATRINA_GRAPHIC/ > http://www.ojr.org/ojr/wiki/katrina/ \" http://www.omidyar.net/group/katrinarefugee/news/0/ http://www.omidyar.net/group/katrinarefugee/news/2/ http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=2&aid=87986 http://www.radioreference.com/wiki/index.php/Hurricane_Katrina lists http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/USNSAHome.htm http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/USNSAHome.htm http://www.secondharvest.org/default2.asp http://www.truthlaidbear.com/katrinarelief.php http://www.wlox.com/Global/story.asp?S=3782912&nav=6DJHduh7 http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003424.html http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003425.html http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003426.html vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 52, "subject": "publicwebstations.com - helping Katrina victims", "response_count": 2, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Sep  4, 2005 (19:49)", "body": "The Opportunity: Older computers, Pentium 2 level or above, can run as Firefox web stations (or kiosks), requiring only 128mb or ram, a CD-ROM drive, a network card, and access to an Internet-connected network. Schools, libraries, agencies, and businesses could easily and quickly provide free public web stations to assist those displaced by the hurricane. The computers needed are available in abundance for free or minimal cost, and many organizations have an excess of these older computers with no use for them. The technology needed to turn them into web stations is both free and effective, being based on the Linux operating system and the Firefox web browser. A single file is downloaded and burned to a CD-ROM, placed in the CD-ROM drive of the computer, and then the computer is booted from the CD-ROM. The computer quickly boots up directly to a Firefox web browser window, not requiring any keystrokes or skills to get there. A working web station would take no more than 5 minutes to set up, and requires no ongoing maintenance except in the case of hardware failure. In case of any difficulties, the machine is just rebooted. The Vision: Our goal is to help create a grass-roots network of independent organizations and individuals who, by following the instructions on this website, can create and run free public web stations both for those made homeless by the hurricane Katrina and for the aid workers helping them. Long term, we believe this project can help to create the tools for immediate volunteer efforts to place public web stations in accessible areas after any major disaster, anywhere in the world. Rather than needing to be coordinated centrally, these efforts can be undertaken at the grass-roots level by individuals in affected areas."}, {"response": 2, "author": "cfadm", "date": "Sun, Sep  4, 2005 (19:49)", "body": "http://www.publicwebstations.com/vision.html vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 6, "subject": "ECHO telnet echonyc.com", "response_count": 6, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Oct 27, 1997 (13:27)", "body": "Echo announces the next ... ECHOLIVE! Live chats on the Internet MONDAY, Nov. 3rd 8:00 PM, Karla Huebner, Co-Chair of the National Writers Union's Book Division. #5 in Yahoo! Internet Life's Top 25 Online Chats. \"EchoLive attracts a sophisticated audience ... if you consider highbrow conversation an evening well spent, this is definately the place.\" [We have our lowbrow moments too.] New York, NY. [October, 1997] For the sixth straight year, Echo presents online conversations with emerging and controversial voices in film, music, publishing, the arts and multimedia. The chats are FREE and open to anyone with Internet access. To participate, dial 212-292-0910 with your modem or telnet to echonyc.com and login as 'echolive'. Karla Huebner, Co-Chair of the National Writers Union's Book Division, and author of WOMEN LOOKING AT MEN: THE MALE FIGURE AND EROTIC INTENT IN WOMEN'S ART, wrote and compiled ON THE ROAD: THE NATIONAL WRITERS UNION GUIDE TO BOOK PROMOTION with fellow NWU activists. How-tos, checklists, personal experiences, bookstore, radio, TV, newspaper, and other contacts get authors off to a good start. ON THE ROAD is currently available to NWU members only. Huebner is also working on a novel about a Holocaust victim who's reincarnated into the early television era as the sometimes-psychic only daughter to a pair of Minnesota Lutherans. For more info: (212) 292-0900 or www.echonyc.com.."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (17:14)", "body": "Stacy Horn (stacy) Tue Dec 2 '97 (08:49) 34 lines Echo the virtual salon of nyc announces the next ... ECHOLIVE! Live chats on the Internet Thursday, December 11th, 8:00PM: Margot Mifflin, author of Bodies of Subversion: A Secret History of Women and Tattoo (Juno Books). #5 in Yahoo! Internet Life's Top 25 Online Chats. \"EchoLive attracts a sophisticated audience ... if you consider highbrow conversation an evening well spent, this is definately the place.\" [We have our lowbrow moments too.] For the sixth straight year, Echo presents online conversations with emerging and controversial voices in film, music, publishing, the arts and multimedia. The chats are FREE and open to anyone with Internet access. To participate, dial 212-292-0910 with your modem or telnet to echonyc.com and login as 'echolive'. The first feminist history of tattoo art, Bodies of Subversion is a fascinating excursion into a subculture that dates back to the 19th century. It documents circus attractions of the 1870s, the first Western woman tattooist, who started in 1904, and breast cancer survivors of the '90s who tattoo their mastectomy scars as an alternative to breast reconstruction or prostheses. \"In this provocative work full of intriguing female characters from tattoo history,\" writes Susan Faludi, \"Mifflin makes a persuasive case for the tattooed woman as an emblem of female expression.\" Barbara Kruger calls it \"an indelible piece of cultural history.\" And tattoo historian Don Ed Hardy says it's \"essential reading for anyone interested in the subject.\" For more info: (212) 292-0900 or www.echonyc.com."}, {"response": 3, "author": "americ", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (22:28)", "body": "I have just put up an interview of Stacy Horn on my public forum site at: www.goldwarp.com/beingwired There you will find a link to Stacy's introduction and entry to the discussion topic with Stacy. She just registared and logged into the system this afternoon. You can registar yourself for free and pop into the conference topics."}, {"response": 4, "author": "americ", "date": "Tue, Dec 30, 1997 (22:29)", "body": "Oops!... this system need a little more info to create the live link to the above, it is: http://www.goldwarp.com/beingwired"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Jan 12, 1998 (22:03)", "body": "Echo - The Virtual Salon of NYC and The Interactive Telecommunications Program (ITP) at NYU invite you to celebrate the publication of Cyberville Clicks, Culture and the Creation of an Online Town by Stacy Horn J a n u a r y 1 5 , 1 9 9 8 f r o m 6 - 9 P M at The Interactive Telecommunications Program 721 Broadway, 4th floor, elevators on the left \"Horn's candor and sense of humor are vastly appealing, particularly when compared to the pomposity of much other writing about the net . . . this should be required reading for anyone wishing to understand the human side, and human potential of cyberspace.\" --Publisher's Weekly Echo and ITP will also be celebrating the publication of the following books by Echo authors: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Virtual Spaces: Sex and the Cyber Citizen by Cleo Odzer, Ph.D (Putnam-Berkley 11/97) Warp by Lev Grossman (St. Martin s Press 11/97) When She Was Bad: Violent Women and the Myth of Innocence by Patricia Pearson (Viking) Bodies of Subversion: A Secret History of Women and Tattoo by Margot Mifflin (Juno Books 12/97) Night Beat: A Shadow History of Rock & Roll by Mikal Gilmore (Doubleday 1/98) Delirium by Doug Cooper (Hyperion 2/98) Getting Beyond Hello : Miss Mingle's Guide to Social Success by Jeanne Martinet (William Morrow) Field of Schemes: How the Great Stadium Swindle Turns Public Money into Private Profit by Joanna Cagan/Neil DeMause (Common Courage Press) Weary Feet, Rested Souls: A Guided History of the Civil Rights Movement by Townsend Davis (W.W. Norton & Co.) Sex, Stupidity and Greed: Inside the American Movie Industry by Ian Grey (Juno Books 3/98) Unafraid of the Dark by Rosemary L. Bray (Random House 3/98) Designing Digital Space: an Architect's Guide to Virtual Reality by Daniela Bertol (John Wiley and Sons, 1997) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Mar 31, 1998 (15:57)", "body": "The most inside stuff I've heard in a while. There's a big flap on the WELL about Stacy Horn quoting wellbeings without their consent. A lot of crying going on. Here's what vassilio has to say: Topic 336 [vc]: Cyberville, by Stacy Horn, founder of ECHO #267 of 267: Vassilios Koronakis (vassilio) Tue Mar 31 '98 (13:21) 116 lines I *did* meet her at the Imamura screening and we *did* have a short-lived affair. She will remember that I introduced her to Steve, Fabiano's assistant at the Public, then. Jonathan R., my friend. film-critic from Chicago was there and we talked \"Rivette\" (his obsession). She will remember that she drew something for me on a napkin at the Hungarian Pastry Shop at Columbia- a souvenir I stupidly keep. Showed her photos of me with Tavel, Harvey Fierstein and Jack Smith and, again, she drew something angelic over my head, in one of the photos. (One of the photos: at White Castle, I think, celebrating success of Torch Song Trilogy, no?) I introduced her to Kiarostami, damn it! She dropped coffee on my canvas bag at Cloisters cafe. In October. When Gerd arrived and I showed up with her at the PS event, she became an Aumette. When I asked (bitchily, I admit) where is the representative of Whitney (in an event that was, after all, co-sponsored by the museum) she shut me off. Sometime later, I entered Echo for the first time and saw there was a discussion about \"that\" European Gentleman (and his KGB aura!) of Echo's PS event! So I started posting. First, at the Whitney Conference. After a day my post is deleted (maybe rightly). I go to the feedback conference and I start a topic. Nothing was different then than it is now- in terms of my style, anyway: \"madness\", the madness I love in all poets, in Artaud, in Greek mythology, in Tokyo's subway, in all woks of life, in R. Crumb, in how-to books, moussakas-for-the-soul, Borges and the late Bunuel. Maybe I didn't have the talent, but I had a credit card and ASCII. And I had the Art milieu of that most provincial Sparta of the planet, Manhattan. A Sparta with a couple of BBS's like Artnet and The Thing. Their sysops were starving. The bbs were free. And I was thinking that in cspace we would manage to beat all Leo Castelli's of the future, by hiting them with our cyber-honeysuckle. So I went to the Cyberfair for Artists and spoke against monopolies like Echo. And when the Manhattan Neighborhood Network (a community cable channel I was using, the one carrying the Echopet program:YORB) told me, by accident, that they had an \"NYU\" program called YORB-and the program manager kept on insisting that Echo *is* NYU, I called NYU's Arts department myself, spoke to the Dean's assistant (Kim?), explained to her who I was and asked if indeed Echo was a part of NYU. I was told: NO! But little Kim, after hanging up, called Stacy. An hour later it was all over Echo: Euroman is trying to shut down Echo!! And so on... What I am trying to say is that Stacy did not go to the FBI and the police, to report me as a maniac, for no BillGatesreason. Usually on Echo, Stacy-designated enemies, unechoids et al are given the usual pre-orchestrated (X-conf.) avant-garde sadism lubrication and they are thrown out. That's it. This is the 90's and ethics are abridged My case was special. Stacy remembered me as the lover of October who went Viking (Gerd is a Norwegian conceptual artist, the famous model of the Fuji Sunshine posters of the 70's) and who was questioning, now, the cultural authenticity of the Alliances she was transparently weaving, after drumming, on Lafayette St., in Soho, everywhere...) [Remember, Stacy? \"This is Despina Papadopoulou, did great work for Voyager last summer!\"; you even managed to have protoges with junta names!] (and stacy had a lot of free time; no matter what people tell you, believe me: she is a modem in bed.) She asked , the host of the Feedback conference (and the one who had called me KGB agent) to post on April 30, 95 in the feedback topic I had started: ATTENTION EVERYONE! Stacy has asked me to tell you that this topic is for vassilio only. Everyone else should consider themselves on read-only in this item. Thank you. In the meantime, she called the FBI and reported me to the police. I kept on posting-I didn't know. Only because Tannenbaum was not sharp enough, I found out. She had filed complaint #3407 with the New York Police Department on the advice of a \"FBI specialist on computer crime and her lawyer.\" It turned out that Mr. Godwin himself was conducted. The same Mr. Godwin who represented Ms. Horn throughout the 199 debate. Ms. Horn never showed up in 199 to present her pov. She had Mr. Godwin. Now I am home, 70th and Columbus, I hear my stomach on the other side of the street, I take Zantac, I have tears the size of nipples and I don't know what to do. I contact the cyber-lawyers of the Well. Would like to help but right now they are writing hot letters to the senate about fetuses' cyberrights. Am I a fetus? No! (laughs!) Or: A. has"}]}, {"num": 7, "subject": "The WELL telnet well.com or <A HREF=\"http://www.well.com\">http://www.well.com</A>", "response_count": 24, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Oct 30, 1997 (23:03)", "body": "I read this very heartening comment today: 110 of 112: Americ Azevedo (americ) Thu Oct 30 '97 (19:03) 8 lines This Winter and coming Spring, I predict that Virtual Communities are going to become the hottest business topic in the world. Forget, the World Wide Web -- that will just be a given. It's what happens \\ on top of the web\\ that will really bring people into this new world. The environment of communication is becoming familiar and friendly enough to attract the un-tech-no masses to the screens. They will get lost in these new virtual worlds...and spend money. I hope this is right. Too good to be true?"}, {"response": 2, "author": "donnal", "date": "Sat, Nov  1, 1997 (15:44)", "body": "I have enjoyed and appreciated Americ's posts on the WELL."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov  1, 1997 (20:06)", "body": "He's perhaps interested in the Spring and I've been exchanging quite a bit of email with him lately. I like the fresh insights that he's bringing to the scene. Quite a discussion on the WELL lately about on line bullying involving him, Howard, fig, americ and quite a few others. And it's even spilling in to the Spring topic in vc on the WELL."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (12:37)", "body": "What's new on the WELL these days. Watch out, I may answer this myself."}, {"response": 5, "author": "stacey", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (10:22)", "body": "let's hear then!"}, {"response": 6, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 26, 1997 (12:14)", "body": "I will, and maybe americ will chime in. Later on."}, {"response": 7, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (07:12)", "body": "I want an English WELL - however, I seem to be the only English person that I've met so far who a) knows what it is; b) wants it here. England is so stagnant and far behind...I yearn for the revolutionary style of California or similar..."}, {"response": 8, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (07:33)", "body": "Just spread the word in England about the Spring and you can use us as your incubator. Many forming virtual communities make use of the Spring in this way. And we have all of the elements of the WELL, even down to shell access."}, {"response": 9, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (12:28)", "body": "Indeed. However - and please don't take this personally - most places don't seem to capture that certain \"zeitgeist\" that the well did/does. I don't know why, and I don't know how it can be done. I get the feeling that the WELL was just a bunch of misfits and weirdoes who collided in one place by accident. There is just something undefinable about the place."}, {"response": 10, "author": "americ", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (12:29)", "body": "English WELL -- yes. Terry certainly has moved me alone by making my dream of hosting a _philosophy conference_ true. Thank you for quoting me here. I feel very honored. I think The Spring is really in a good position to create so newer more vital traditions in this field."}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (12:55)", "body": "I guess we're all too sane here, we just don't attract enought misfits, but there's still time!"}, {"response": 12, "author": "americ", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (15:41)", "body": "Misfits -- that sells the worst of stuff is what moves \"talk radio\""}, {"response": 13, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (17:22)", "body": "Well, let's not go that far."}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (07:46)", "body": "Some interesting WELL stats. Public conference visits Sun Nov 30 00:00:02 1997 through Sat Dec 6 23:59:14 1997 1. 6541 news 11. 1703 current * 21. 1194 sports * 2. 4491 media * 12. 1625 tv 22. 1177 macintosh 3. 2338 genx 13. 1594 sanfran 23. 1086 tours 4. 2286 popcult * 14. 1561 music 24. 1038 cooking 5. 2214 hosts 15. 1457 byline * 25. 1026 vc * 6. 2044 movies 16. 1334 slicker.ind * 26. 920 health * 7. 2039 books 17. 1328 classifieds 27. 882 berkeley 8. 1832 gd 18. 1319 wired 28. 849 welltech 9. 1720 weird 19. 1228 plumage * 29. 832 science 10. 1712 words * 20. 1207 web 30. 790 horde * equivalent conferences on the Spring"}, {"response": 15, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, Dec  8, 1997 (12:32)", "body": "Not sure I reall understand the stats you've just put, terry. Could you space them out a little more clearly (maybe put them in an html table)? Incidentally, I've just re-opened a WELL account. I've decided that if I want access to people with a *lot* of virtual community experience, I'll have to bite the bullet. Again :) However, I have an account which includes telnet access now, so I'll be able to bypass the horrible Engaged interface if I want to (and get access to the equally horrible Picospan interface :)"}, {"response": 16, "author": "tca", "date": "Mon, Feb 16, 1998 (23:58)", "body": "Last month, I gave some bad advice in the WELL virtual communities conference. Luckily, he paid me no heed. People at the WELL are mean to . He tends to brag about The Spring a bit, but who can blame him? I'm gonna cancel my account there at the end of the month."}, {"response": 17, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb 17, 1998 (10:34)", "body": "The WELL does get a bit crusty at times."}, {"response": 18, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Tue, Feb 17, 1998 (11:35)", "body": ":)"}, {"response": 19, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Feb 17, 1998 (20:39)", "body": "More from boswell, could be called \"What a long, strange trip it's been\" DEEPER The Not-So-Virtual Life and Hot Times of the Well In the beginning, Brand created the Whole Earth and, for it's day, it was good. But good times and good things all pass, and in time the Whole Earth was passe. So Brand stared out on space and asked, \"If the Whole Earth is no longer hot, what is?\" The heavens opened and he saw before him in flaming letters: \"It's the computer, stupid!\" And lo, it was the computer. \"But what about computers makes them interesting?\", asked the Brand. The heavens opened once again and flaming letters appeared saying, \"It's the people, stupid. If you build it, they will come.\" Thus did Brand in Sausalito, California say, \"Let there be a computer conferencing system and let it be called..? Let it be called... hummm, something folksy and non-technical ... let it be called the Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, the WELL!\" And, lo, on earth in Sausalito came forth the WELL in the year of our Brand Awareness 1985. And it was weird and difficult and kludgy and unstable. Hence, it became in time a self-selecting mechanism that attracted a certain sort of person that was also weird and difficult, kludgy and unstable. In short, nerds that were into sex, drugs, and rock and roll-- as well as computers; .................the kind of nerds that hung out in the Haight Ashbury in the 60s and 70s or went off on vision quests to the Himalayas, or stuck it out in ashrams and communes in the city or the country, who (One!...two!.....three!...four...! Hit it!!) Who danced with the devil in the pale moonlight all night long to the Grateful Dead. Who planted terminal velocity dope in among their own alien corn. Who burned up the wires with all night sessions of cocaine and programming. Who drove thousands of miles just to see each other in the flesh, and were not disappointed! Who had long laminating parties and boogied with The Fabulous Fannies. Who reveled in tales of their own profligate drug use. Who told ghost stories that could have been true. Who took on sexual genders that they never imagined existed. Who picked up whips and chains with batteries included! Who cracked root and hacked the system and then hacked the system's systems. Who destroyed themselves online and then committed suicide for the sake of symmetry dreaming of dream of smart televisions. Who fell in love and lust in a hundred different pretzeled combinations! Who confessed their darkest sexual secrets to anyone who would listen. Who wrote down their earliest memories. Who cried for and hated their fathers. Who told the truth about their shameful desires and found no shaming. Who confessed their crimes and were busted Who cruised the rooms looking for someone, anyone with a perversion, a habit, a jones that was their mirror. Who married each other online and off. Who seduced each other online and off. Who had group sex with strange body types that did not repel them. Who had children, well and sick, alive and dead, in and out of jail. Who died. Who mourned for the dead. Who wrote messages to nobody for a thousand and one nights and then another thousand nights and yet another thousand nights -- telling stories, sending messages, making the scene, leaving the scene, and coming back again.. And all in a thousand dim rooms, mostly alone, mostly at night with only the glowing screen of a million colors shining in front of them like some odd God on an altar of silicon whose miracles were never quite mastered. And the messages going out and going out into what had to be only nothing, but could be, might be -- somewhere somehow -- some sweet connection in the imagined starry vault of cyberspace with someone or some many who would at last understand and signal back across the impossible distances that they too had the same dreams, sins, fantasies, ideas, insights, insanity, hates or loves. Who wrote things that had never been told even to their most intimate friends and lovers. Wrote them because they needed to fill the long, long nights after everyone else in the house was asleep and the village asleep and the suburb quiet and the downtown avenues hushed. And the typing went on, signaling what they knew, what they hoped, what they had seen, what they had done what they wanted to do.... sometime, somewhere, somehow. All thrown into the deeper part of the Well where, like candles dropped into some dark pit, they glowed smaller and smaller and seemed to be fading out of sight when, miraculously, the light turned and loomed larger and larger coming up from the Well with an answer, a signal, a symbol, an emblem that in the labyrinth of the system someone somewhere somehow had heard and answered. And the Well kept these records for year upon year, until a decade out the tales that it knew, and the voices it heard came back from the depth of the machine and asked, \"Who WERE the hands and the faces that night after night built the single system with a memory of the year"}, {"response": 20, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Tue, Feb 17, 1998 (20:50)", "body": "Amazing!"}, {"response": 22, "author": "terry", "date": "Wed, Nov 11, 1998 (12:28)", "body": "Single folks on the WELL: http://www.well.com/conf/singles/gallery.html"}, {"response": 23, "author": "sprin5", "date": "Sat, Jun 17, 2000 (19:41)", "body": "Topic 4 [fuck.pri]: The WELL's Fuckers #539 of 544: Jef Fucking Poskanzer (jef) Tue Jun 13 '00 (09:37) 205 lines New fuck stats! The top 200: Rank Userid Responses Bytes Topics New topics TOTALS 48548 100% 3900416 100% 36048 100% 290 100% 1 wjamesau 878 1% 60434 1% 581 1% 10 3% 2 jerod23 648 1% 308506 7% 341 0% 10 3% 3 dam 603 1% 36753 0% 339 0% 0 0% 4 josh 564 1% 33066 0% 472 1% 1 0% 5 tnf 556 1% 39551 1% 423 1% 10 3% 6 jet 478 0% 28956 0% 360 0% 2 0% 7 rbr 475 0% 34176 0% 371 1% 1 0% 8 jef 475 0% 31134 0% 335 0% 10 3% 9 axon 474 0% 35059 0% 333 0% 1 0% 10 nycjag 446 0% 40232 1% 264 0% 3 1% 11 jeffreyp 446 0% 25687 0% 256 0% 2 0% 12 gjk 442 0% 31042 0% 303 0% 0 0% 13 digaman 426 0% 32684 0% 216 0% 0 0% 14 vard 424 0% 32945 0% 322 0% 2 0% 15 swoopcat 424 0% 30256 0% 267 0% 0 0% 16 jrc 418 0% 29803 0% 319 0% 0 0% 17 riffraff 412 0% 30571 0% 218 0% 1 0% 18 alden 367 0% 63576 1% 242 0% 4 1% 19 saiyuk 352 0% 22105 0% 242 0% 0 0% 20 jstraw 351 0% 20421 0% 292 0% 4 1% 21 mz 350 0% 19908 0% 277 0% 0 0% 22 duck 338 0% 23305 0% 212 0% 1 0% 23 kadrey 314 0% 20435 0% 234 0% 0 0% 24 slf 295 0% 20357 0% 245 0% 0 0% 25 scraps 287 0% 18915 0% 216 0% 1 0% 26 grifter 276 0% 20603 0% 173 0% 0 0% 27 arice 267 0% 20019 0% 191 0% 0 0% 28 miles 266 0% 18000 0% 185 0% 3 1% 29 dsg 261 0% 18423 0% 143 0% 0 0% 30 lizabeth 256 0% 20895 0% 168 0% 1 0% 31 gary 252 0% 21628 0% 169 0% 4 1% 32 filmmag 246 0% 13940 0% 207 0% 2 0% 33 brady 245 0% 17579 0% 153 0% 0 0% 34 mnemonic 241 0% 18892 0% 160 0% 0 0% 35 rab 237 0% 20798 0% 189 0% 0 0% 36 bradburn 237 0% 12160 0% 114 0% 1 0% 37 plettner 230 0% 17737 0% 176 0% 0 0% 38 brock 227 0% 20351 0% 105 0% 0 0% 39 bandy 224 0% 11697 0% 126 0% 0 0% 40 mim 222 0% 15840 0% 150 0% 2 0% 41 joeyx 216 0% 9699 0% 140 0% 0 0% 42 streak 215 0% 14404 0% 173 0% 0 0% 43 lala 210 0% 8533 0% 128 0% 3 1% 44 cromis 210 0% 27658 0% 138 0% 1 0% 45 plum 207 0% 11573 0% 157 0% 2 0% 46 tpy 203 0% 12887 0% 150 0% 1 0% 47 spingo 196 0% 10050 0% 140 0% 0 0% 48 brook 196 0% 15073 0% 154 0% 3 1% 49 belly 193 0% 12825 0% 113 0% 1 0% 50 almanac 191 0% 13928 0% 146 0% 0 0% 51 evilsofa 190 0% 16040 0% 152 0% 12 4% 52 rafeco 185 0% 12123 0% 135 0% 0 0% 53 rik 184 0% 11550 0% 162 0% 0 0% 54 rusirius 183 0% 13282 0% 127 0% 7 2% 55 ty 182 0% 11315 0% 122 0% 0 0% 56 ndjd88 182 0% 9962 0% 130 0% 3 1% 57 steve 180 0% 10473 0% 143 0% 0 0% 58 ernie 178 0% 11942 0% 117 0% 0 0% 59 duca 176 0% 22654 0% 33 0% 0 0% 60 jonl 175 0% 12669 0% 112 0% 7 2% 61 jpettitt 173 0% 29584 0% 9 0% 0 0% 62 obizuth 172 0% 12114 0% 148 0% 0 0% 63 flanagan 172 0% 12961 0% 105 0% 0 0% 64 truejim 170 0% 15331 0% 102 0% 0 0% 65 cynsa 170 0% 9779 0% 105 0% 0 0% 66 justride 169 0% 10357 0% 152 0% 1 0% 67 jukevox 168 0% 8923 0% 119 0% 0 0% 68 cooljazz 168 0% 9979 0% 48 0% 1 0% 69 mucas 167 0% 14988 0% 142 0% 1 0% 70 jdevoto 163 0% 11424 0% 137 0% 0 0% 71 badbongo 163 0% 8740 0% 83 0% 0 0% 72 aud 161 0% 10037 0% 107 0% 0 0% 73 kls 159 0% 11961 0% 124 0% 1 0% 74 crow 159 0% 9440 0% 137 0% 0 0% 75 chelbell 157 0% 7789 0% 93 0% 0 0% 76 lolly 155 0% 9309 0% 120 0% 0 0% 77 buck 153 0% 9957 0% 70 0% 0 0% 78 virginia 144 0% 10527 0% 116 0% 0 0% 79 mcdee 143 0% 10469 0% 96 0% 1 0% 80 magdalen 142 0% 11086 0% 116 0% 0 0% 81 jon028 142 0% 9820 0% 95 0% 0 0% 82 lisa 139 0% 7351 0% 101 0% 0 0% 83 mikejs 138 0% 9072 0% 103 0% 0 0% 84 woodrow 135 0% 10648 0% 103 0% 4 1% 85 angus 132 0% 8471 0% 115 0% 1 0% 86 cruella 129 0% 9644 0% 108 0% 4 1% 87 mariposa 127 0% 8988 0% 95 0% 0 0% 88 marybeth 126 0% 6842 0% 103 0% 3 1% 89 bryan 126 0% 7986 0% 93 0% 1 0% 90 blueduck 126 0% 8652 0% 92 0% 0 0% 91 maya 125 0% 8840 0% 95 0% 0 0% 92 techgirl 124 0% 4939 0% 48 0% 1 0% 93 doctorow 124 0% 10904 0% 76 0% 0 0% 94 srhodes 123 0% 8482 0% 98 0% 0 0% 95 heyjude 122 0% 7827 0% 92 0% 0 0% 96 philcat 121 0% 8964 0% 86 0% 1 0% 97 ruz 119 0% 7564 0% 108 0% 0 0% 98 kyee 118 0% 7960 0% 94 0% 0 0% 99 chimpowl 116 0% 8030 0% 90 0% 0 0% 100 bijou 116 0% 6867 0% 98 0% 0 0% 101 dgault 115 0% 6102 0% 98 0% 0 0% 102 jnfr 114 0% 5116 0% 71 0% 1 0% 103 ivanski 114 0% 9764 0% 90 0% 0 0% 104 bruces 112 0% 13694 0% 51 0% 0 0% 105 mandel 111 0% 6682 0% 97 0% 1 0% 106 mtrbike 108 0% 6595 0% 79 0% 1 0% 107 editrix 108 0% 6308 0% 69 0% 0 0% 108 thanne 107 0% 6668 0% 89 0% 0 0% 109 pdl 107 0% 8618 0% 84 0% 1 0% 110 doxy 107 0% 6038 0% 98 0% 0 0% 111 zippy 106 0% 7172 0% 74 0% 0 0% 112 rghaggart 106 0% 8681 0% 55 0% 0 0% 113 dkline 106 0% 7647 0% 66 0% 0 0% 114 danlevy 105 0% 7073 0% 91 0% 0 0% 115 reid 102 0% 6895 0% 83 0% 1 0% 116 maj 102 0% 24856 0% 54 0% 0 0% 117 ledelste 101 0% 7475 0% 76 0% 2 0% 118 hlr 100 0% 7360 0% 91 0% 3 1% 119 green 99 0% 8539 0% 89 0% 2 0% 120 cthroid 99 0% 6696 0% 76 0% 1 0% 121 rreiss 98 0% 6753 0% 73 0% 0 0% 122 molsk 98 0% 5662 0% 76 0% 0 0% 123 mc2 98 0% 8227 0% 69 0% 2 0% 124 natalied 96 0% 6345 0% 71 0% 0 0% 125 wiggly 95 0% 4929 0% 72 0% 0 0% 126 farren 94 0% 6321 0% 85 0% 0 0% 127 brad 94 0% 4499 0% 61 0% 0 0% 128 zimby 93 0% 6186 0% 66 0% 0 0% 129 pstemari 93 0% 6118 0% 86 0% 0 0%"}, {"response": 24, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun 17, 2000 (20:12)", "body": "Sounds like a more hostile environment than Spring. *cringing* Not going there! Are you allowed to use that term on the internet??!"}, {"response": 25, "author": "MarciaH", "date": "Sat, Jun 17, 2000 (20:15)", "body": "Guess, by their standards I am one of those ignominions people of the four-letter-word infamy......sigh vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 8, "subject": "Electric Minds <A HREF=\"http://www.minds.com\">http://www.minds.com</A>", "response_count": 9, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (07:13)", "body": "I'm at eMinds, and I really like it. The place has a certain forward-looking zeitgeist that can so often be missing elsewhere."}, {"response": 2, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (07:34)", "body": "What are the hot topics there, these days, now that the reigns have been passed from Howard to Durand Brothers?"}, {"response": 3, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (12:35)", "body": "I'm not really sure. I still find the Engaged interface clunky, and it gets in the way. Also, the set-up they use for Conferences and topics etc. make it difficult (personally) to find where I was and where I want to be. I prefer the much cleaner interfaces of Motet and Yapp. However, the people there are very interesting - a real good, exciting bunch. As for the hot topics, I don't really know. I read yesterday an *excellent* discussion on how to handle harrassment in conferences - a subject which as also being discussed on Utne, so I brought a few ideas across to them. Also, I keep using the word zeitgeist (there, I used it again). Perhaps it's my word of the week."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (12:58)", "body": "It's been a while since I've checked in, I most read/respond to the ausint and to the communities conference. The web interface has some great features, one of which I plan to incorporate here, post and move on to the next topic in one keystroke."}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (12:54)", "body": "The Spring is hosting the austin conference on Electric Minds. http://www.minds.com"}, {"response": 6, "author": "KitchenManager", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (15:50)", "body": "is this a good thing or a bad thing?"}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Sep  7, 1998 (22:01)", "body": "I'm not sure which, if it helps both it's good. There's no traffic there now. If they end up paying us to boost their traffic, it would be very, very good. I don't know the politics there anymore really. fatty moon engineered this change."}, {"response": 8, "author": "chadneff", "date": "Thu, Nov 26, 1998 (11:14)", "body": "Jeff K. suggested I check out Minds. I'm thinking of taking a poor, man's tour of conferencing sites. (Any where I can go for free.) I'm not at all adverse to paying for value. It's just that I'm such a novice and have so much to learn, there are sure to be false starts in the offing. I'd rather not run up a bill making them. Any suggestions are welcomed. Terry, Hwo does the \"paying to boost traffic\" thing work?"}, {"response": 9, "author": "terry", "date": "Sat, Nov 28, 1998 (17:34)", "body": "I'm not sure myself, I've just had some prelim talks with Eminds and they seem open to supporting host and other communities, being as they are sort of a community incubator. vc conference Main Menu"}]}, {"num": 9, "subject": "Esther Dyson - Release 2.0", "response_count": 14, "posts": [{"response": 1, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (00:12)", "body": "A review in the current issue of the New York Observer >From a New Media Prophetess, A Staid Old Media Product by Laura Miller Release 2.0: A Design for Living in the Digital Age, by Esther Dyson. Broadway Books, 307 pages, $25. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If living in the digital future is anything like reading Esther Dyson's book about it, I don't think I'll be able to stay awake for the experience. Ms. Dyson owns a company, Edventure Holdings Inc., that publishes a newsletter (Release 1.0) about technology trends and puts on conferences for high-tech movers and shakers, including the exclusive PC Forum. She's part of a relatively new breed of pundit promising to give nervous businessmen a handle on the unpredictable, swiftly evolving, mandarin world of high technology. The less people understand about a powerful force, the more likely they are to manufacture cults of personality around those who seem to have an inside line, which is how Nicholas Negroponte managed to sell so many copies of his pompous and silly book, Being Digital, and why Ms. Dyson got an advance of more than a million dollars for this soporific Design for Living in the Digital Age. In her introduction to Release 2.0, Ms. Dyson writes that the intent of her book is \"to help us think about the Internet and our roles as citizens, rule-makers and community members.\" The Net, she explains, \"is a potential home for all of us ... a place where people meet, talk, do business, find out things, form committees, and pass on rumors.\" For the rest of the book's 307 pages, Ms. Dyson continues, in this bland and measured tone, to weigh in on various Internet quandaries--pornography, spam (junk e-mail), intellectual property rights and, especially, electronic commerce. She's a moderate libertarian who believes that \"markets will do a lot of the design if we let them, but we need a foundation of both traditional, or terrestrial, and Net-based rules to make the markets work properly.\" Few of her positions seem likely to provoke the kind of flaming debate for which the Net is notorious, and when she does prescribe something drastic--like the death of copyright--she does it in the mild, reasonable voice of technocrat managers everywhere. In a way, Ms. Dyson is an example of the curse inherent in getting what you wished for. The first prophets of the digital future were early adapters, mostly former hippies, and were prone to the grandiosity and \"revolutionary\" junk rhetoric of the 60's counterculture. They talked a lot of nonsense about the death of literature, the hive-mind and screenagers, got brain-trust jobs at Wired magazine and discovered that the more outlandish their predictions and pontifications, the more easily they could scare corporate managers into paying them hefty consulting fees for their goofy pronouncements. To be fair, they did foster one industry--a minor boom of inner-Luddite authors who wrote long, earnest, hand-wringing treatises on how the Internet spells the end of civilization as we know it. Another former hippie, Kirkpatrick Sale, even took his Cassandra act on the road, smashing computers with a baseball bat during public appearances and reaffirming that his is the Generation That Knows No Shame when it comes to the pursuit of media attention. Meanwhile, the press went wild with horror stories about the child molesters, hackers, sexual harassers and other sociopaths supposedly lurking in every dark recess of the Net. In short, it's been a three-ring circus, and I remember how most of the people who early on had found the Net interesting, fun and useful would yearn for a less inflammatory public discussion of its potential. Now comes Esther Dyson to make us rue the day we did. The bonanza mentality that once prevailed in the corporate world's attitude toward the Net has been tempered with skepticism, and their tolerance for wild-eyed visionaries has been exhausted. They prefer now to hear about the future from one of their own (Ms. Dyson was once a securities analyst and used to work at Forbes), in the language and terms that make them comfortable, a soothing vocabulary--composed of words like \"innovation,\" \"productivity\" and \"outsourcing\"--that can cloak the most ruthless strategies and appalling events in a mantle of placid euphemism. Compared to the Net's early champions and critics, Ms. Dyson sounds like the voice of reason, but she's also depressingly lacking in passion. Release 2.0 has all the pizzazz and sense of adventure of an in-flight magazine. The book offers a series of scenarios--entitled \"Communities,\" \"Work,\" \"Education,\" \"Governance\" and so on--illustrating how Ms. Dyson expects the Net will reshape various areas of our lives. It's a vision of the world common in libertarians, in which all students are industrious, all employers judicious, all consumers well informed and every citizen exercises his or her freedom of choice and speech with the rationality of a Vulcan-"}, {"response": 2, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (07:03)", "body": "I read an article by Dyson in a UK newspaper (The Independent, I think), where she rubbished the idea of community being initiated on the net - she seems to think that the internet-community is only useful when applied to existing, real-life communities. I e-mailed her pointing out this was perhaps not the case. Dyson does not answer her e-mail."}, {"response": 3, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (09:51)", "body": "Perhaps in would gain some relevance if tied to a r/l community. The Spring is pursuing building some real flesh based communties and hot wiring each home with high speed need access and \"surround video\". Perhaps these folks will join our virtual community, maybe not, I find the folks here interesting and stimulating and many of these interactions may lead to actual physical meetings or \"netmeetings\" of some sort."}, {"response": 4, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (13:21)", "body": "Here's one for the \"give me a break\" department. The Slantsman's Jeffrey Kallenberg writes: \"...the best job I've seen in breaking down the Internet, the cybercommunity, and the high tech world into well-thought tidy bites. A definite buy . . .\" By the way, that should be bytes, Jeff. And what were you on when you wrote this?"}, {"response": 5, "author": "terry", "date": "Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (13:46)", "body": "Re: the article above. Nail. Head. Bang. Right on."}, {"response": 6, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (08:03)", "body": "Hmm...seems I must now eat my words. Dyson replied to my e-mail after my last posting, and said that she basically agreed with what I had said. Which begs the question why she seemed to put another viewpoint across in her newspaper article. Fickle fickle fickle."}, {"response": 7, "author": "terry", "date": "Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (09:39)", "body": "Can you quote some of the things she said in her reply and elaborate on this a bit?"}, {"response": 8, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (06:23)", "body": "She only said one thing in her reply, which was: \"I basically agree with what you said\" :) Below which was quoted my entire e-mail, and then a huge signature advertising her latest book (Release 2.0) - Dyson has much to learn about e-mail etiquette, methinks... However, I shall post my original message to her in a moment."}, {"response": 9, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (06:27)", "body": "Hi Esther, I have just read with interest you article in the Guardian newspaper (06 November 97). I feel that you have - or appear to have - limited your investigation of online community to so-called \"chat rooms\", which you mention; you have neglected to mention the vast numbers of other online communities - both real-time and asynchronous - which exist around the net. I would challenge the idea that you put forward the net is a *community support*, not actually a community itself. You mention that the community tends to be built offline, and then transferred online in some manner - that online communities tend to have real-life meets etc. This is both true and false, and I have examples for both. Firstly, there is the (now infamous) WELL, about which I'm sure you know. Howard Rheingold wrote about it in his book \"The Virtual Community\", a seminal tome about which, again, I'm sure you know. As a former UK-based WELLite, I can definitely say that the sense of community on the WELL was lower for me than it appeared to be for most San Francisco members. That was a principal reason for me deciding to cancel my account. However, in the same \"conferencing\" vein as the WELL, there is Cafe Utne ( http://www.utne.com/ ) which functions as an international net-based community, but which has (to my knowledge) only a minimal amount of face-to-face meeting, yet still seems to create the kind of \"community feeling\" found in the WELL. Also prevalent in this country, are a version of the Multi-User Dungeon (MUD), which we know as \"talkers\". These are real-time, telnet-based communications which are like MUDs,but with the hack-and-slash removed - people are simply there to chat to each other. They differ from IRC in the fact that everyone has a fixed id or nickname - there's no nickname stealing and identity-ambiguity as is found in IRC. These communities, for they definitely are, do not rely on face-to-face meets to establish community - the vast majority of the users are simply university undergraduates. We do have meets, but these are infrequent enough to encourage the community online. I hope I haven't bored you too much, and I look forward to any comments you have to make on the above, or indeed on any aspect of online communities. Yours, ~Mike"}, {"response": 10, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (06:28)", "body": "To which Esther replied: Thanks for writing. What you said is fine and I basically agree with it. Esther Dyson [..snipped .sig...]"}, {"response": 11, "author": "terry", "date": "Thu, Nov 27, 1997 (07:56)", "body": "So, Mike, is this dialogue of yours with Esther going to continue? I got an email from Gregory Kallenberg saying that his little piece was definitely altered beyond recognition (the one he wrote about Esther's book in the Statesman)."}, {"response": 12, "author": "mikeg", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (12:41)", "body": "I don't know - I invited her to reply (as you can read) on vcs in general, but she didn't. I guess she's too busy plugging her new book to worry about a little undergrad like me."}, {"response": 13, "author": "americ", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (15:44)", "body": "She is traveling all over the place. She did do a quick reply to my e-mail where I invited her to a conference with my students. said would perhaps take a question or two via e-mail."}, {"response": 14, "author": "terry", "date": "Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (17:22)", "body": "Wow, I should pop her an email and see what happens. vc conference Main Menu"}]}]}