Geo Mysteries

we didn't get linked in paraspring (i think i have a topic on atlantis there)... do we also get to talk about the 7 Wonders?

Absolutely you can talk about anything in here from the wild theories of spaces hips coming out hole in the polar regions to anything else of interest which does not seem to fit anywhere else. Get out your Pyramidology books and have at it. I also think this is a natural one to be linked to Paraspring, but I cannot do it anymore and none of my prior requests have been done...*sigh*

That should be space ships...*sigh*

Stonehenge Crop Circles http://cropcircleconnector.com/

that last one is soooo cooooool!!!

It is all ONE photograph...and Stonehenge seems to attract them for whatever the reason. I'll post more as I find them. This was a particularly stunning one!

Crop Circle Reports from last year (add your own to these - they are just as valid!) http://cropcircleconnector.com/1999/rumours99a.html Rousdon, nr Seaton, Devon. Reported Sunday 22nd August. I was surprised to see no mention of the formation which occured at Rousdon (nr Seaton) in Devon in mid July. A friend of mine visited it, and according to him it was documented in the local papers down there (including a picture). Perhaps you could follow that up. Reported by John Culmer Longbridge, nr Warwick, Warwickshire. Reported 29th July. NEEDS INVESTIGATING Another report of a bigger formation 3 niles to the north just south of Warwick on the M40/A46 junction. Reported by Antony Horn Rabley Wood, nr Marlborough, Wiltshire. Reported 22nd July. I have read a couple of e-mails from this guy called Steve re a formation on Rough Down. I looked for it last week but found nothing, he now says it is near Rabley Wood, any ideas? The formation ! saw over a week ago is near Rabley Wood near Marlborough I was a long way away so I can't tell you what shape it is. Reported by Antony Horn. M4, nr Reading, Berkshire. Reported 15th July. A friend has just informed me of a large formation visable from the M4 near Reading??! Sound like a large flower type formation....I have not heard of anything around this area....is this new? Reported by Antony Harding Bungay, nr Beccles, Suffolk. Reported 8th July. UPDATE After E-Mailing yesterday, I went up to the field that housed the circle. I couldn't find anyone to gain permission from so I carefully went up a footpath to have a look. However, after checking to see if I was being watched, I saw someone staring at me from a nearby house (who hadn't answered the door to me when I'd called 5 minutes earlier). So I was unable to enter the formation but from what I saw (and from my limited experience of crop formations (while on holiday in Wessex once a year)) it appears quite old (the crop is 'springing up' in places), it has a clockwise swirl with an outer ring (also clockwise) and has a diameter of approx. 50 ft. Well, I'll keep looking for any further East Anglian circles. If you a sent any info from any other croppies regarding this formation, I would greatly appreciate your forwarding it to me too. Hello. After my flatmate's morning cycle ride (July 8) he told me of what he believed to be a crop circle. I promptly went to the area he described and, yes, sure enough there is a 50ft circle with an outer ring in a field in Suffolk (shock). I haven't entered the circle yet as there are far to many farms in the area and would rather have permission than get shot at ! If you want to post this on CCC site the circle can be found here: Take the Beccles Road out of Bungay towards the Watchouse PH. Take the Mettingham Low road (Not Pirnow St or the main Beccles Road).Proceed about 500 yards and in the top right-hand corner of the only field of wheat (on the right) is the small circle. It is very difficult to see from the road but for a good view, take Pirnow Road past Crisp Maltings (over the three bridges) and keep checking through the gaps in the trees to your right. I can't recall there ever being a circle in this area even in the early 90s. Perhaps a true, unhoaxed specimen of the genuine phenomena.Feel free to E-mail me but I will send more details /photos when I've spoken to the land owner. Reported by Ben Leah Stanbury, nr Haworth, West Yorkshire. Reported 26th June. Sighted crop circle near reservoir at Stanbury yesterday afternoon 26th June. Reported by Varaly Thome. Herewith some data passed on to me by Michael Green from Tony Caldicott (East Midlands Co-ordinator. Derbys: @ SK 451 631 near Junc.28 (4m North), of M1 on same site as 1993 - a ringed circle with crescents. S. Yorks: @ SE 305 095 near Junc 38 of M1 (To the West), a chain of circles. Regards George Bishop I have heard there is a formation at Bicester and a fourth formation at Toot Balden both these reports have to be confirmed. (UPDATE) Last night Geoff and I looked at the formation near Oxford airport (which is not near Enstone - Enstone is a separate air field) more details about it will send you further details in due course. We went looking for the formation at Bicester and think it was a duff report. Geoff will look for the fourth Toot Balden formation this weekend. Reported by Jeremy Kay Bruton, nr Wincanton, Somerset. Reported 9th June A crop circle has appeared just outside Bruton (off the A303 near Wincanton Somerset. It is situated on the Right side of the road on the Godminster Lane leading out of Bruton on the Godminster Road. It's been there since Wednesday 9th June. It's shape is long and Scorpion like. It's hard to see it from a good vantage point, the Bruton Dove Cote Hill might be a good position with a pair of binoculars; otherwise you can just peer over the Right side Hedge and get a sense of it. The corn seems to have literally and organically bent at the node points over night without any trauma to the plant. Reported by Cho Hopking Hi There is a recent crop circle in Bruton Somerset at the moment and I wondered if you were interested. I have not seen it myself but a friend who lives there asked me to try and get in touch with someone who was interested in documenting it as it is not clear from the ground exactly what shape it is. Reported by Carolyn Bunt

Three lovely ones from last year http://cropcircleconnector.com/1999/1999.html

those HAVE to be man-made. i mean, look at them. but they're so precise. i don't get it....

The caption for the central crop circle above (response 8) follows: This formation was located in quite a remote part of the Avebury landscape, it was positioned about a couple of hundred yards at the back of West Kennett Long Barrow, just one field over from the Flying Duck formation in 1994. A UFO sighting may have been associated with the appearance of this formation, but more information is still needed at this time. This particular place is extremely quiet, and certainly has an air of mystery and in someway a sacred atmosphere to it. The formation itself, is nothing we haven�t seen before, another fine addition to the Koch designs we have been witnessing over the last three years. The season of 1999 will certainly be remembered as the year of the square. It has featured in many the major designs this year; none more so than this pattern at West Kennett. The usual perimeter circles on the outside are present, with a wonderful three-dimensional floor pattern in the middle. The floor isn�t raised, but the overall floor construction can only be appreciated from the sky, with correct shadows, the effect can be witnessed. It was positioned on a slight brow of the hill, as it slopes down an incline, but the formation cannot be seen from the road, or from any advantage point. Only people standing in the design would pinpoint its location. The square geometry has been a main feature on the formations of 1999; the Silbury Hill formation was also created on a similar vein. Five main squares are involved in the construction of the design, with the hidden squares creating the outer edge of the pattern. The circles placed on the perimeter were well formed, but visiting a formation this stage in the season seems to create a messy floor construction, the plants are nott quite so supple as they would be earlier on in the season. A well formed formation, placed in a peaceful and remote location. http://cropcircleconnector.com/1999/EastKennett/EastKennett99c.html

Yup, but even man-made, they are amazing. And, of course, this one is right near the gigantic Avebury Stone Circle, West and East Kennet Long Barrows, and the associated goodies of inestimable (well, they are estimable - but old!) age.

they are amazing, indeed, and i like the symmetry.

Engineering students from Cambridge or Oxford out on a lark to mess with the minds of the gullible and uninformed?! I wonder if the farmers are angry about what has happened to their crops?

They have competitions now that rival ploughing matches for popularity, to see which team can creat the best ones. I believe the e mphasis is not only on the artwork but emphasises the stealth of technique. Has anyone done a searh on that?

Yes! Mike, I saw a program about crop circles last night. It seems college students have far too much time on their hands. Just as when I was a college student! Fractals seem to be the style lately, or are they advancing into other "fields" (sorrym, I couldn't resist)

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_538533.html Hundreds report UFO sighting in Yugoslavia Authorities are investigating after hundreds of people in a Montenegrin village reported seeing a cluster of giant UFOs. People in Godijevo say they rushed out of their homes after hearing a series of loud blasts and saw huge illuminated objects seemingly hovering overhead. Officials are investigating numerous recorded sightings, but have been unable to offer an explanation so far. According to the newspaper Vijesti, many witnesses claim the UFOs changed shape before heading off into the sky and out of sight. They couldn't tell how high in the night sky the lights were. "I went outside after hearing a commotion and when I looked up into the night sky there were around twenty large luminous circles, it was as if a UFO was hovering over our heads. The sky must have been lit up for hundreds of metres," said Sead Hodzic. Suggestions the lights may have come from nearby nightlife have been dismissed because there are no discos in the vicinity of Godijevo and little in the way of hi-tech facilities which could generate such lights.

I have heard at least one person suggest the above article is describing earthquakes lights. Since the person suggesting this is not known personally to me or to Geo, I will reserve my thoughts on her opinion. Just thought I might mention it.

I thought this was found to be a pigmy elephant: �Cyclops skulls� baffle tribal folk By Perseus Echeminada Publish Date: [Sunday, February 24, 2002] Ancient skulls bearing a single eyeball socket found in limestone caves have baffled tribal folk in the hinterlands of Bohol, Bukidnon and Agusan, reports said. The existence of the skulls, which resemble those of the cyclops, a race of giants in Greek mythology with a single eye in the middle of the forehead, has triggered speculations that one-eyed ancient settlers once roamed the country�s southern islands. The strange skulls were reportedly found in limestone caves in the hinterlands of Bohol, at Mt. Palaupau in Sumilao, Bukidnon, and in some parts of Agusan. Tribal folklore has it that giants once roamed the plains of Central and Northern Mindanao, the most popular of whom, according to Bukidnon legend, was "Agyo" who fought against the first Spanish conquistadores. Bukidnon�s tribal folk are reportedly keeping skeletal remains which they believe to be Agyo�s as an object of worship in a sacred cave. Reports about the strange skulls had prompted archeologists of the National Museum to launch an excavation in Bohol and they, indeed, found one such skull. Archeologist Rey Santiago said intensive study on the skull showed it belonged to an ancient settler. He, however, theorized that limestone in caves where the "cyclops skulls" were discovered could have triggered a chemical reaction in the skeletal part, creating a new eyeball socket. "Human bones and limestone have similar (composition)," he said. Despite Santiago�s explanation though, tribal folklore maintain there were two races of giants in ancient times � the kapre who were associated with evil, and the one-eyed giants whom early settlers regarded as their heroes. http://www.philstar.com/philstar/show_content.asp?article=68822

I wonder if I found some "sub-mystery!". Do you remember this "strange" satellite picture? We wondered at that time for what really is this long line. Recent corresponding pictures are not the same! Recent satellite pictures are pseudo colored or they are worked pictures. Satellite images for all planet disappeared from the web. I wonder also if the change is outcome of our questions. This is the new corresponding picture. Surely it needs some additional work. John

About earthquakes lights I have pinpoint this report of newspaper "�������� of Athens" of 18-09-99 In enough cases and in Japan were mainly reported luminous shines in air just before big earthquakes. (I notice that West of Almyros city were observed similar luminous shines on the slope of the Mt. Othris, that is near the epicentre of Magnesia EQ in 1980, M=6.3R as they published local newspapers. These luminous shines, like sparks, were observed a few seconds before and during the EQ.) In 1996 the Japanese researcher Josizo Kavakoutzi, from the Japanese Institute of Industrial Researches, attributed brilliancies in the fracture of rocks with silicon dioxide. (Most rocks contain quartz.). According to Kavakoutzi, one of millionth second afterwards the fracture of quartz is presented a red shine with length of wave 650 nm. Ten thousandth second later, the light becomes blue and his emission is continued for 100 thousandth the second roughly. John

As regards the satellite maps, I suspect added security has made the satellite maps very scarce. The Doppler radar and other weather satellite maps are colored to indicated height and temperature of air masses. They also disguise anything "we" don't need to see. Alas, the truly evil will always find a way to see these things. We will not. Have you a source for the top image? I was never able to find it. Japanese, if I remember correctly.

The big earthquakes occur in Hawaii when the mass of the volcanic cone pushes down and out on the plane of the Pacific tectonic plate on which it sits. The Pacific plate is pushing in a northwestward direction. Pressure builds up and the earth at the outer edges of the volcano land mass snaps and crumbles as slippage occurs. The most destructive earthquake in Hawaii happened April 2, 1868 on the Kona coast and more than 81 people died. The quake caused damage around the entire island and destroyed more than 100 homes. The magnitude 7.9 earthquake was felt as far away as the island of Kauai. The area most affected was the Ka'u district where a resulting landslide of mud generated a 15-meter tsunami. During the early morning hours of November 29, 1975. At 3:35 a.m., a magnitude 5.7 jolted the Big Island of Hawaii. There were no reports of severe damages, however, many were frightened. This event would prove to be merely a foreshock. By 4:47 a.m., everyone had fallen back to sleep, only to be awakened once more by a larger, even more frightening magnitude 7.2 shock. "Earthquake lights" of white to bluish flashes or glows lasting several seconds were reported by a number of observers. Earthquake lights are associated with major earthquakes and have been observed in Japan and California. The lights are believed to be results of earthquake-induced distortions of the atmosphere. This type of destructive earthquake generally occurs about once every ten years. The most recent large earthquake in this area had a magnitude of 6.7, occuring in 1983 and causing $6 -$7 millions in damage. On rare occasion an earthquake not related to volcanic activity can happen on the island of Hawaii. In 1973 a magnitude 6.2 happened north of Hilo, injuring 11 people and causing $5.6 millions worth of damage. Earthquakes like these are hard to predict. http://library.thinkquest.org/J003007/Disasters2/earthquake/earthofhi.html I was here for these quakes and I did see the bluish white flashes. I thought it might have been power transformers arcing out, but they were not the same color.

Probe Into Cuba's Possible 'Sunken City' Advances Reuters Mar 29 2002 6:14PM HAVANA (Reuters) - Scientific investigators said on Friday they hope to better determine later this year if an unusual rock formation deep off Cuba's coast could be a sunken city from a previously unknown ancient civilization. "These are extremely peculiar structures ... They have captured all our imagination," Cuban geologist Manuel Iturralde said at a conference after a week on a boat over the site. "If I had to explain this geologically, I would have a hard time," he told reporters later, saying examination of rock samples due to be collected in a few months should shed further light on the formation off the Guanahacabibes Peninsula on Cuba's western tip. Iturralde, research director of Cuba's Natural History Museum, has joined Canadian exploration company Advanced Digital Communications (ADC) in efforts to solve the mystery of the smooth, geometrically shaped, granite-like rocks. They are laid out in structures resembling pyramids, roads and other structures at more than 2,000 feet in a 7-3/4 mile-square area. ADC has suggested they might belong to a civilization that colonized the American continent thousands of years ago, possibly sitting on an island that was sunk to great depths by cataclysmic earth movement such as an earthquake. That theory, and its inevitable parallel with the myth of the lost city of Atlantis, has provoked skepticism from some scientists around the world who say the depth and age -- ADC has spoken of at least 6,000 years' old -- were not credible. Some European archaeologists said the stones, stumbled upon in July 2000 while ADC was hunting with sonar equipment for treasure and sunken Spanish galleons, could be formed by natural limestone. But Iturralde's conclusion that there is no immediately apparent natural explanation for the rocks has lent credence to ADC's theory. "NEED FOR OPEN MIND" "It appears like there is some kind of intelligent design in the structure's configuration and planning," ADC's Soviet-born Canadian ocean engineer, Paulina Zelitsky, said on the sidelines of the geophysical conference in Havana. "I have worked in this field over 30 years and I have never before seen natural structures shaped with such intelligent symmetry and plan. From the very first moment, I was suspecting that these structures were not natural." While Iturralde gave evidence in his paper on Friday for seismic movement at the site, and possible submerging of the land, he drew short of definitively concluding the rocks were not shaped by nature. If, however, that theory was proven, it would revolutionize understanding of the history of the Americas, he told reporters. "It would change a lot our knowledge of humans and the evolution of the Americas," Iturralde said. "Recently, a French archaeologist found some evidence of people being here in South America 40,000 years ago, something we never expect, so you need to be always open to things that you are not expecting, that are not in the framework of present-day knowledge ... We may have found something that nobody has thought about." ADC plans to take a specially designed robot to the site in a few months to take samples of the rocks and the sediment they are embedded in to try to date them and seek signs they may have once been on dry land. They will also be searching for any sign of human life such as drawings, sculptures or artifacts. "To drill samples from these structures is not easy because they look like granite. And to drill granite at a depth of 600 meters is very difficult," Zelitsky said. She said their discoveries could make history. "I think we are talking about the origins of the American continent. There are many hypotheses about how the continent was colonized ... There is quite a controversy, and I think our discovery will be the first physical evidence of the true origins of developed civilization in the Americas."

There are a lot of block flows and pillow lavas on the sea floor which look like what active imaginations want them to look like. I think they will again come up with only theories and sell more books to the easily swayed.

Like the Bimini Wall. Wasn't that at first considered to have been a submerged ancient roadway? Another Atlantis theory which turned out to be a natural structure.

Cheryl, have you seen the atlantea.com website we're hosting? What is your honest opinion of this site?

we have an atlantis website? oh, and don't forget paraspring's topic for atlantis! i think i heard the same thing about the roadway but didn't know it had a name, thanks cheryl.

We host it. It's Roger Didio's website, a NY kind of guy who I used to work with at IBM. He's still at IBM up in the NY area.

Bimini Roads and those great slabs around Japanese islands... the Canary Islands, and even Lyonesse sunken off Cornwall in England have all been candidates for Plato's allegories. Too bad we keep chasing what isn't there and try harder to understand and preserve the world we now have...!

Back to Ley Lines for a moment. The only information I can find about the now mostly vanished Marden Henge is that is lies on Silbury Hill Ley in Wiltshire. With a 36 acre internal measurement and a great barrow associated with it, that is a difficult thing to do. Now, it is mostly wooded by new growth trees and the roadway goes straigh through it just as do the roads through Durrington Walls and Avebury. Very strange, indeed! http://www.leyhunter.com/arch/tlh13.htm I did not photograph it when I visited Marden simply because what I could imagine of the remaining bank and ditch is in the dark woods and would not show up well on a photograph. Apparently this is a common agreement. I can find neither photo of the area nor ground plan sketch. It is there, though. And, it is still fascinating me.

The final ley marker is Marden Henge (09175820). Enclosing 35 acres, it is the largest henge yet discovered. Its bank and the ditch did not complete a full circuit. Excavations have revealed grooved ware, suggesting a Neolithic origin. The ley enters the henge where the road cuts its N bank and would almost certainly have passes through the no longer extant Hatfield Barrow that once stood within the henge. This was said to be well over 400 feet in diameter and according to tradition, concealed a treasure. Pots of gold, it seems, are found at the ends of leys as well as rainbows!. http://www.leyhunter.com/arch/tlh13.htm

Hi all, We are thinking many times why some mysteries insist mysteries for years. It is easy to say something absolutely not provable. You can make a story and people perhaps will love it. And you are safe. But, why these mysteries insist mysteries? What we can do to solve insolvable problems? Come and find it below! Accept it as a test for fun! You can find what you must do in this case, if you delete thirteen letters in the row below. TDHELIETNEKTHIORTUTEENOLFETTHTEBOXERS John

well, i got Think Out Of The Box - but had to take away more than 13 letters.... do i get the booby prize?

EsBee, you get a lei from me. As soon as someone presents me with a problem like that my mind goes blank and I see way too many things which do not appertain thereto. I suspect you are correct. I am pulling the lid back onto my box.

LOL - but i cheated. :-) i took away to many letters. still, i'll take the lei ~mahalo *hug* -what's this? There's diamonds scatter all though the flowers! Marcia, how kind. You shouldnt have. *grin*

*laugh* i thought it was something in greek and john was cursing!!

John, you're allowed to laugh at our playing with you puzzles. Life is too serious and Wolfie and Esbee are too enchanting to do anything else but to join them in their humor. As for me, I could not think of what it might be. I am the one who must remain after school is out to learn my lessons better. *;)

Hi good company! Suppose that I sell a thing (let's say a book) for $50. Suppose also that Marcia and Wolfie want to buy it. They give me $25 each one and they buy it. After one day I am thinking that I made mistake and the price of the book is not $50 but is $45. I am searching but I can't find them. I found their friend Julie! Then I give to Julie $5 in order she give $2.5 to each one. But she lost $2 and she give $1.5 to Marcia and $1.5 to Wolfie. (Totally $3). Come to see what happened. Marcia spends 25-1.5=$23.5 Worfie spends 25-1.5=$23.5 (the same) Both, they spend 23.5+23.5=$47 totally. Look! Marcia and Wolfie they spend $47. If you add the $2 that has lost Julie, the result is $49!!!!! And not $50!!!!! Where is $1? Can you find it? John P.S. This is big problem if you play with million dollars.

Indeed. Life is too serious but we need some delectable breaks. Otherwise we will have serious problems. Can you try a break? John

Hi all. I will try giving you a second different break. Can you draw only 4 beelines, which will pass over all these red dots without stop? (Without uplift the pencil from the paper). You can start everywhere. John P.S. SMILE! Laugh gives us years of life!

Ack! a math word problem! *trembling as assailed with memories of 5th grade* am excusing myself from the word problem as too many trains leaving different stations at different times traveling at different speeds has left me mentally crippled in this area. (John -do they torrment young children with word problems in Greece as well?) Know the answer to the second one - but dont know how to draw the lines. (have seen this one before in any case.) :-)

This reminds me of two gentlemen sharing a hotel room and how they pay the porter who brought up their luggage and arrange to come out even. In that case we are tempted to count the $5 difference twice. There is another case of counting your fingers and finding they total 11. Counting backward on the first hand you get 10 - 9 - 8 - 7 - 6 and add the other hand to it which we know has 5 fingers. 6 + 5 = 11. That is the sum total of my math. Had I been more skilled at it, I would NOT be writing for a living!

i don't like the missing $1 word problem--i've heard the same thing but it was done using the purchase of a hotel room. doesn't it have something to do with the fact that you can't divide an odd number by two or am i completely lost? where's that algebra book!! and i'm having a hard time drawing on the screen of my computer!

I also had difficulties with drawing on my monitor. So I packed my water-proof suitcase and laptop, put on my industrial-sized water-wings and flung myself off an eastward-looking cliff. Battling mightily against tides and sharks I struggled to the west coast. Ducking cars, climbing mountains, I kept remembering I was expected to solve the dots problem by the resident seismic expert of Geo. I hate letting people down, so I stove mightly against the elements and the size of the earth. Eventually I arrived at the Mediterranean and swam past the archetyal volcanoes not daring to stop. I struggled ashore in Greece and climbed the marble mountain of Mt Pelion where the Oracle of Volos was presided over by the High Priest who could tell me the answer I sought. Iplaced the offerings of Maile leis and Macadamia nuts on his altar and waited for him to grant me an interview. Then he gave me the truth on a bit (or byte) of paper and with great thanks, I returned to my computer to post the answer. See? I figured it out all by myself, just as I was told to say *;)

*clapping*

*Taking a bow for the man who told me the answer* It is bad enough that the Greeks invented geometry and calculus plus just about everything else. They have been keeping all of the genes for this expertise to themselves. Either that, or my ancestors were hiding under a rock when this particular talent was being passed around. There MUST be something I am good at doing. I'll keep trying to find what it is.

You're good at being my friend. :-) number one at the top of a long list.....

mine too!! i was gonna say the same thing *HUGS*

*Geo-sized hugs* Must be because I had such good people to become friend with! Someone's gotta do it. That's my expertise! That and insatiable curiosity. And, for EsBee, the funniest sounding board around.

*grin* This is true! *hug*

I was sitting on a comfortable chair near the sea looking at the Pagasitic gulf the last breathlessness hot night. Full Moon was glass on the quiet sea. I observed something strange. The reflecting on the sea light was making beautiful games but the shape was not straight. It was a non-stable crooked shape. I had the impression that Pagasitic gulf was like a slinky dishpan. I never observed something like this. Have anyone idea why? John

Was it phosphorescent? Did it glow in the dark on its own? If so you wer seeing a gathering of tiny little animals (plankton) This phenomenon often follows the wake of a ship. It is hot here, too, John, but I am far from the sea. I look at the moon and think of you often. We share the same stars and other celestial things as well of the more earthly kind. I miss talking to you! Very Much *Sigh*

Another guess, if it was not producing its own light but was distoring the moonlight was a surface feeding or spawning "school" of sea creatures or fish. I will attempt to see how many of them spawn or swarm at the summer solstice under a full moon. As I recall, many of them do!

The strange phenomenon was not phosphorescent or bio-light. I was seeing the reflected Moonlight on the sea surface. It I had the impression that the sea surface was not flat but in a strange motion. I was seeing it for more than two hours. The next nights nothing strange observed. Everything became normal and very romantic. Pagasitic gulf is a wide closed sea with only one small opening to Aegean Sea. It is like a lake or a very big volcano crater in the sea. John

I have seen your Gulf on the map and it does seem like a volcanic remanat of some sort. Romantic? Alas I am so far away and nothing much in this area is romantic, though I did listen to live music performance in a warm clear night under the stars and was enraptured! *Sigh* I am at the wrong place, now, I guess. I will return to Hawaii and my normal self soon. Please be patient with me. I do wonder at the subsurface anomalies you noticed. Not schools of mating or spewning sea creatures? Then I have no idea what it could be! I am fascinated though. Do you have a legendary monster living in your gulf?

We have not monsters living in Greece. They are retired in the ancient history. They are in the correct place now. Possibly it was a phenomenon that is associated with the increasing of Earth�s velocity just afterwards the Solstice! Perhaps� Do not say that you are in an incorrect place Marcia. Simply put on the one disk what good you found there and on the other disk what bad. I am sure that the balance of justice has down the disk of good. John

The disk of good is full. The only negative I have discovered is that I am separated from the people who mean the most to me and I cannot talk to them as I used to do. That should be rectified in the near future. I guess I fear the loss of you more than I fear anything else at the moment. But, Aside from that and my dislike for eating Hominy (a southern staple not even my host will eat) my disk of good things is always fuller, and for that I am grateful. However, the acute pain of separation remains. I will do something about it this following week or die in the process (ONLY a figure of speech!)

Very Good! Now you have to copy, paste and save the content of the good disk into your mental world. You can overwrite everything that you don't like. You will feel more free and hopeful. John

I present you this part of an e-mail to me from a Turkish friend: ...There was a strange phenomena in Izmir at 18th April,2002 (and also in Bodrum). The sea level was decreasing 50cm in every 45 minutes. It lasted two days and after that it set quiet. No body could explain it... This is one absolutely physical periodic phenomenon George. It is unbelievable but real� Have you some explanation? I remind to all of you that the Ismit in Turkey was the place of the epicenter of the deadly EQ on August 17th 1999 with a magnitude of 7.8R. It is located on the great Anatolian fault. Can anyone other explain it? Perhaps you have similar observations of strange phenomena. Please inform us. John

I present you this article even if it is enough scientific. It summarises the unique properties of the water on which is based the life on Earth. Water structure and behavior Water (H2O) is the most remarkable substance. However, water is often perceived to be pretty ordinary. We wash in water, fish in water, swim in water, drink water and cook with water, although probably not all at the same time. We are about two-thirds water and require water to live. Life as we know it could not have evolved without water and dies without it. Droughts cause famines and floods cause death and disease. Because of its clear importance, water is the most studied material on Earth. It comes as a surprise, therefore, to find that it is so poorly understood, not only by people in general, but also by scientists working with it everyday. Water seems, at first sight, to be a very simple molecule, consisting of just two hydrogen atoms attached to an oxygen atom. Indeed, there are very few molecules that are smaller. The size of the water molecule, however, belies the complexity of its properties and these properties seem to fit ideally into the requirements for life as can no other molecule. Water: The Thirty-seven anomalies of water It has often been stated that life depends on the anomalous properties of water. In particular, the large heat capacity and high water content in organisms contribute to thermal regulation and prevent local temperature fluctuations. The high latent heat of evaporation gives resistance to dehydration and considerable evaporative cooling. Water is an excellent solvent due to its polarity, high dielectric constant and small size, particularly for polar and ionic compounds and salts. It has unique hydration properties towards biological macromolecules (particularly proteins and nucleic acids) that determine their three-dimensional structures, and hence their functions, in solution. This hydration forms gels that can reversibly undergo the gel-sol phase transitions that underlie many cellular mechanisms. Water ionizes and allows easy proton exchange between molecules, so contributing to the richness of the ionic interactions in biology. The density maximum at 4�C and low ice density results in (i) the necessity that all of a body of water (not just its surface) is close to 0�C before any freezing can occur, (ii) the freezing of rivers, lakes and oceans is from the top down, so insulating the water from further freezing and allowing rapid thawing, and (iii) density driven thermal convection causing seasonal mixing in deeper temperate waters. The large heat capacity of the oceans and seas allows them to act as heat reservoirs such that sea temperatures vary only a third as much as land temperatures and so moderate our climate. The compressibility of water reduces the sea level by about 40 m giving us 5% more land. The anomalies Water has unusually high melting point. Water has unusually high boiling point. Water has unusually high critical point. Water has unusually high surface tension and can bounce. Water has unusually high viscosity. Water has unusually high heat of vaporization. Water shrinks on melting. Water has a high density that increases on heating (up to 3.984�C). The number of nearest neighbors increases on melting. The number of nearest neighbors increases with temperature. Pressure reduces its melting point (13.35 MPa gives a melting point of -1�C) . Pressure reduces the temperature of maximum density. D2O and T2O differ from H2O in their physical properties much more than might be expected from their increased mass; e.g. they have increasing temperatures of maximum density (11.185�C and 13.4�C respectively). Water shows an unusually large viscosity increase as the temperature is lowered. Water's viscosity decreases with pressure (at temperatures below 33�C). Water has unusually low compressibility. The compressibility drops as temperature increases down to a minimum at about 46.5�C. Below this temperature, water is easier to compress as the temperature is lowered. Water has a low coefficient of expansion (thermal expansivity). Water's thermal expansivity reduces increasingly (becoming negative) at low temperatures. The speed of sound increases with temperature (up to a maximum at 73�C). Water has over twice the specific heat capacity of ice or steam. The specific heat capacity (CP and CV) is unusually high. The specific heat capacity (CP) has a minimum (36�C). NMR spin-lattice relaxation are very small at low temperatures. Solutes have varying effects on properties such as density and viscosity. None of its solutions even approach thermodynamic ideality; even D2O in H2O is not ideal. X-ray diffraction shows an unusually detailed structure. Supercooled water has two phases and a second critical point at about -50�C. Liquid water may be supercooled, in tiny droplets, down to about -70�C. It may also be produced from glassy amorphous ice between -123�C and - 149�C [74] and may coexist with cubic ice up to -63�C]. Solid water exists in a wider variety of stable (and metastable) crystal and amorphous structures than other materials. Hot water may freeze faster than cold water; the Mpemba effect. The refractive index of water has a maximum value at just below 0�C. The solubilities of non-polar gases in water decrease with temperature to a minimum and then rise. At low temperatures, the self-diffusion of water increases as the the density and pressure increase. The thermal conductivity of water rises to a maximum at about 130�C and then falls. Proton and hydroxide ion mobilities are anomalously fast in an electric field. The heat of fusion of water with temperature exhibits a maximum at -17�C. Some of the anomalies of water related to temperature. The graph uses data that have been scaled between their maximum and minimum values (original data). Find full explanation here: http://www.sbu.ac.uk/water/anmlies.html John

John, I remember reading somewhere that distilled water is the ultimate cleaning solution. It will eventually work it's way through any stain.

that's some interesting stuff, john and cheryl!

Hi Cheryl and Wolfie, Distilled water is a perfect dissolvent processor. I remember my grandam using rainwater (it is very soft) for washing. It is good but surely is not a cure-all. I am sorry but I have not enough experience on cleanings. However, I have to say some things for distilled water and soft water if it is used as drinking water. (Distilled water is extremely soft). Drinking distilled water on a regular, daily basis is potentially dangerous. Fasting using distilled water can be dangerous because of the rapid loss of electrolytes (sodium, potassium, chloride) and trace minerals like magnesium, deficiencies of which can cause heart beat irregularities and high blood pressure. Distilled water is an active absorber and when it comes into contact with air, it absorbs carbon dioxide, making it acidic. The more distilled water a person drinks, the higher the body acidity becomes. Notably, carbon dioxide from the air is rapidly absorbed, making the water acidic and even more aggressive. Many metals are dissolved by distilled water. There is a correlation between the consumption of soft water and the incidence of cardiovascular disease. Cells, tissues and organs do not like to be dipped in acid and will do anything to buffer this acidity including the removal of minerals from the skeleton and the manufacture of bicarbonate in the blood. I hope that it is equally interesting. John

John you are right about depletion of nutrients from the body by drinking distilled water. It is just plain dangerous!

I am currently drinking the Ohio River. I looked at it and then thought better of it. I am better off not knowing what is in there besides the minerals and other electrolytes.

take along a brita!! how do we get distilled water? it's not boiled tap water right?

probably multiple filtered - Ive seen some camping demos where you basically pour in pond sludge and out comes clean water - have not tried THAT experiment yet.... Mike

Distilled water is boiled and the condensate water is separated from all othere things in the water including minerals we need. It tastes flat and rather awful even cold. Haizone tablets are still the thing for drinking water of dubious quality. Chlorine in tablet form. Mike, watch for those filters. They remove stuff from commercially filtered water in the US, but that is mostly purified anyway. Really nasty things like filterable disease vectors cannot be removed by Britta or any other such filters. Boil it for 20 minutes or add sufficent chlorine!

I've also seen those demonstrations. Bweware. What you cannot see CAN hurt you or cause your death. Horribly! Typhus, typhoid fever and cholera are just some of the fun lurking in that sludge!

not to mention legionnaires disease (which was found in a local hospital's drinking water). Britta gets rid of the yucky taste of tap water. thanks for clarifying the distilled water thing. irons work better with distilled water because all the calcium and junk is removed and doesn't get stuck to the iron's innards. distilled water works well for orchids and other houseplants.

You're right about steam irons and watering plants. Just make sure you feed the plants if you use distilled water. Rainwater in its purest form is close to being distilled water. That is why your grandmother washed her hair in it because it was soft and left her hair soft, too. In Hawaii, the water comes from the sky straight to our catchments and then to us, Little or nothing is added and it tastes fantastic. Just enough good stuff comes from the lava tubes channelling it into the reservoirs to make it tasty without being hard. You have to watch how much soap you use or you will have far more bubble to wash out of whatever is being washed than anticipated. Hard water makes few bubbles! The river water we drink in Kentucky is soft and pleasant do drink as is.

Our well water in Tx is kinda mineraly (right word?) but still tastes very good. Much better than the sulphur water that pops up in some spots! We have Lake Michigan water here but run it through the Brita just the same. Mike

I run the Hilo water through a filter just to remove pipe metal elements and algae which runs rampant in all water sources in the tropics. I'd like to get one for here. I have no idea what is in the water of the Ohio River. I will buy a Britta pitcher, I think! Minerally sound about right. People actually pay money to drink the water of sulpherous springs as a tonic. *shudder* It sounds like kids who will eat dirt but not their vegetables!

This is an answer on what you wrote in topic 78, about my whole-night discussion Marcia. My new friend, the whole-night interlocutor, was thesaurus and monster of knowledge. He can chorus ILIAD of Homer without reading it somewhere. We were discussing several topics of it. I heard also some interesting stories-experiences from him. He was speaker in some seminar in the Ohio, USA area. He told me a strange experience with an Indian old man, chief of tribe Sioux there. He was answering to the old man in many questions about Greece. Later, when he returned back in Greece, he comprehended that never was heard any word from that old man! INCREDIBLE! (Note: Was after midnight and our voices covered only the song of a grasshopper.) How you can comprehend the time during similar discussions? John

You are right, John. I recall not so long ago thinking of such conversations as impossible. Now you have also had the wonderful experience. We also cover many subjects - often one leading to the next as in a chain reaction. The tale of the Old Sioux Indian man was fascinating. I do not doubt it in the least. Some things need not be spoken at such hours. Subliminal suggestion is very strong when all but the grasshoppers sleep. Mine was accompanied by them and a few fireflies. I can sleep all morning. Don must go to work. We must figure out a better way to dicuss things. Over long evening meals is currenly our favorite way. I am so very happy you had this experience. I did not wish for you to think my host was unkind. I was as much a participant as he. But, you do understand this now!

TALOS THE FIRST ROBOT Talos, or Talus, was a giant creature made of bronze that some writers say was the last survivor fo the bronze age. Talos was given to Europa by Zeus. Talos guarded the island of Crete. According to others, Talos was designed by Hephaestus, who gave the robot to King Minos. Hephaestus' robot guarded Crete by walking around the perimeter of the island three times a day and throwing rocks and other debris at ships so that they would not land on the island. Talos was a very strong creature who had but one weak spot on his body, the vein in his ankle. His bronze body was kept alive by an ichor contained in that single vein. The Argonauts encountered Talos on their way home from Libya. Medea convinced Talos that she would give him a secret potion that would make him immortal if he would let her stop on the island. Talos agreed and drank the potion and it made him fall asleep. Medea went to him in his sleep and pulled the plug in his ankle, whereupon Talos bled to death. Other stories say that when Medea tried to land on the island, Talos scraped his ankle on a rock while trying to fight her off and bled to death. According to an entirely different version, Talos was killed by an Argonaut Poeas, who shot him in the ankle with an arrow. http://www.dl.ket.org/latin1/mythology/2creatures/talos.htm John

There have been many science fiction stories that included Talos. I never thought to question what it really was or the origin of the name. Thank youf for sharing this. It makes perfect sense! Star Trek fans will recognize it!

Hi John. I just read your observations in response 52 and the discussion that followed. As you know, on June 24th I was at the Gulf of Kyparissia (in western Greece)and, naturally enough, I spent the evening by the sea-side, in the company of my family and a few good friends, enjoying the full moon and a wonderful gentle sea-breeze. At some point our discussions came to wave and current patterns in the sea and to your signals (you know why...), but that's another story. The sea-breeze made the reflections of the moonlight rather chaotic, so I had a completely different view from what you had in Pagasitic Gulf. Anyway, I have a number of possible explanations for what you observed: 1)Swell or long-period waves coming into the gulf. These waves would produce more or less periodic distortions of the moonlight reflection. Swell waves are wind-generated waves that have formed far away from the point of observation, have left their area of formation (somewhere in the Aegean) and travel into calm areas, almost unchanged until they reach shallow water (in this case in Pagasitic Gulf). Long-period waves are usually produced by distant storms, passage of weather fronts or sudden atmospheric pressure changes. They have much longer wavelengths and periods than swell waves and travel mostly unobserved until they reach shallow water. 2)Enclosed gulfs like the Pagasitic develop complex water circulation patterns. The water circulation pattern is the result of the combined effects of tides, currents due to density differences between water masses of different temperatures and currents produced by sea waves that reach the shoreline at an angle. The combined effects of tides and currents may produce water setup (piling up of water masses) at certain locations along the shoreline and the sea surface is not plane any more. 3)You could be observing the development of an amphidromic system. Water entering the gulf during flood tide is deflected to the right by the Coriolis force and is piled up on the eastern coast. In the same way, water leaving the gulf during ebb tide is deflected to the right and is piled up on the western coast. The result is a tidal wave in the gulf that travels anticlockwise. The tidal crest (and the sea surface) is sloping at all times from the shoreline to the rotational center (the amphidromic point), somewhere towards the center of the gulf. 4)You could be observing a seiche, standing waves in the gulf, similar to those produced if you move your hand to and fro in a water-filled bathtub. 5)There are a number of other more "exotic" oscillations, like internal waves and ifragravity waves, that could produce irregular sea surface elevations. My best guesses are numbers 2 and 3. If you can send me a rough sketch of what you observed, I might be able to give you a more definitive answer. Now that I think of it, I must have observed (and photographed) a strange circulation pattern in Pagasitikos about two years ago, while being at Pilion for Christmas. If I find that photo I'll send it to you. I also have an explanation for the observations of your turkish friend, but I'll need some help in posting a couple of graphs.

George, welcome back. What a fascinating post you just entered. Thank you! Either john or I can assist you in posting your graphs. I am also waiting to hear from John- but I will let him assist you if he has the time. Do you need the html commands? I can eamil them to you easily enough.

That was the most confusing post I have ever entered. I think I need some sleep. John, will you assist George or shall I?

Thank you very much, Marcia, for your offer to help and thank you even more for your never-ending efforts to keep this great conference running smoothly. It would really save me some time studying html, if either you or John could send me the commands required for posting graphs. I have developed a bad habit of digging out John's postings one or two at a time (I just found the additional information on his observations of Pagasitikos Gulf in Geo 78/resp. 2 and 5).This information is very interesting, John. The 5 min period points to seiches and storm surges (numbers 4 and 1 respectively in my previous response). The 5 meter elevation changes are too much for Pagasitic gulf (just imagine what would happen at the coastline!). Fishing boats are usually equipped with echo sounders optimized for the detection of fish and other targets in the water column and not with hydrographic-grade bathymeters. As the speed of sound in water changes with density and temperature, it is possible that the depth reading of the echo sounder varied as the boat drifted slowly into and out of an area of colder water. The observed elevation changes could be attributed solely to temperature and density differences if the water depth was sufficiently large, or to a combination of the above and long period waves. There are two more observations: the GPS readings changed and the water temperature changed. If only the elevation readings of the GPS changed, were the changes equal to the changes of the echo sounder depth readings? If yes, you probably have a Geo Mystery (or an extreme case of number 3)! If no (more likely), much of the observed phenomenon was due to different water masses with significant temperature and density differences. I suspect that the position fix readings of the GPS changed as well. If that was the case, then the boat was definitely moving into and out of an area of colder water and that leads us to explanation number 2 of my previous response. Indeed, we know that, under certain circumstances, cold and eutrophic water masses coming out of the Dardaneles may enter Pagasitic Gulf. It seems, John, that your turkish friend missed the opportunity to send you a message in a bottle!

George, This is the site I particularly find easy to use and quick to findthe commands I need: http://www.austen.com/tutorial/ I will also email you with the simple instuctions we use. Thank you for the kind words. It is more than a little pleasing to have so much activity in Geo after years of talking to myself. I am delighted you came back!

*smile* JOhn will do it. He is much better than I am !

George is already in his summer vacations with his family. We have to discuss many interesting things with him but not now. He hugs the Aegean Sea for the moment. John

...and the Aegean Sea hold him and his family in her warm salty embrace like the primordeal sea from which we were each born in our time. Happy Vacation, George. Thank you, John, for emailing him with the codes for posting images and such.

This was forwarded to me by my son.I had seen a small article about it and sent it to him for his opinion. He forwarded to me, the following details: September 1st Fairfield Sighting - Eyewitness Account Recital From "John" This is a summary of John's description and accounting, as related to me by him personally on 9-20, of a sighting he witnessed at aprox. 9:30 P.M. on 9-1. John was traveling north on highway 113, off of highway 12, heading toward Vacaville. It was a clear evening and there was no other traffic on the road. This is a rural area on the outskirts of the city, and is relatively un-travelled in the evening hours. As he was approaching Vacaville, close by Hay Rd., he noticed a craft flying east toward Sacramento, out his left driver's side window. Eventually the craft crossed in front of him. He estimated the craft was aprox. 1/4 mile if front of him and under 1000' elevation in the sky. His first thought was it was a C-5 as it was traveling pretty slow, however as it passed in front of his car he noticed a trail, or something, coming off of this object he referred to as 'stardust', as the tail of a comet may look. At first he thought it must be coming off the exhaust, which he realized was extremely odd. In trying to gain a better view he almost drove off the road so he stopped and rolled down his passenger window and looked out. Though he was running late he realized that he was viewing something extraordinary, so he shut off his engine and took a minute to view the spectacle. He describes the craft as definitely bigger then a C-5 and totally silent with no sound of jet exhaust. He was adamant that it was not a C-5 as he was well familiar with the Galaxy transport aircraft, and had reported and flown in them before. In his mind this was something that was 'extremely weird' that he might never see again. In comparing it to a C-5 that might be flying in the same space he stated that the object was aprox. 3-4 times larger. When I asked for more details regarding tail, or trail, of the 'stardust' he had referenced, he humorously stated that part of the problem was he shouldn't have read the story, because he felt his mind was contaminated by it. I found his awareness of this factor intriguing though, as it was clear his recollection was kept in check by it. He stated that the tail was a light colored, or a star color, and that it didn't just come out of what he might of considered to be the exhaust, but came off the entire surface object and quite a ways back, longer then the actual object. He stated it was like a trail or something. He described the trail having a luminescent sparkling effect which just randomly dissipated off behind the object. He compared it to sparks coming off a campfire at night and disappearing into sky. However he did not get the impression it was a flame. When asked about any discernible geometric shape or solidity he stated it was a very dark night, and that if not for this erie trail which followed it, it might have gone unnoticed. He stated it was almost as if you could see through parts of it. He described it as having a ghost type effect.. That you could see the outline of it, but it was hard to tell where the object ended and space began. He speculated that this was due to the tails erie effect however. He mentioned having the distinct impression there was definitely a controlled solid object. No lights were noticed on the craft itself, and the only lighting effect was in the sparkling luminescence of the trail behind it. Overall he mentioned that the object was unusual enough for him to stop and turn off his engine to view it. He stated hat in itself was unusual for him to do because he is a reporter always under pressure and a deadline. Because of this he really didn't want to stop but he thought "I've got to see this thing, I just can't believe it." He mentioned after viewing it for around a minute or so it sort of disappeared, not that it was going fast or anything, just that he didn't think the light wasn't reaching it anymore. His feeling was that it didn't literally disappear, but kind of dissipated, like an object going off into a fog or something. Before it totally disappeared he saw at least 1 and possibly 2 incoming 'meteor' trails right above it, which had a duration of a second or less. He stated that if these events were totally separated that he would have considered these to just be 'shooting stars'. However it was odd because the object disappeared within 2-3 seconds after this occurred. The object was last seen heading toward Sacramento. When he got back to the office he told his associates at the newspaper about it. He got a skeptical non-believing reaction in return with humorous comments that he must have had to much to drink or something. He further stated if he hadn't of read the story, nothing else would have been mentioned about it to anybody. His overall feel for the sighting was that it didn't raise any level of fear in him. In fact he noticed it gave him a peaceful feeling, like getting carried away in a dream or something. His viewpoint was it was a UFO. The question for him was it from the Earth or another place. He speculated that it was totally within the realm of possibility that our government could have something like this, that they wouldn't necessarily reveal. He stated he was firm enough in what he saw that he would testify in a court of law if he had to. FOLLOW UP INTERVIEW - Follow up interview was conducted a week later to correlate any other relevant memories and thoughts, that may have been brought about by the first interview. SUMMARY The glitter or 'star dust' stuff that was coming off the object in a trail was what stood out the most and stuck in his mind. It seemed that this glitter was more predominant near where an exhaust would be speculated to exist, at the rear of the object, though it was trailing off the entire object. He stated his mind could have been playing tricks on this however, because that would be his expectation of an Earth object. The object was appeared to be flying relatively low and was observed at about 45 degrees from the horizon. He speculated the craft at its closest point was less then 1/2 mile away. It speed was comparable to that of a C-5 in how it was 'lumbering' along, perhaps 300 miles per hour. The object was considerably larger then a C-5, and was irregular in shape. He described the object definitely not being a C-5 because no wings could be observed. As it was clear the object did have a surface mass he described it as a triangle or perhaps a 'flying wing'. He remembered a peaceful feeling coming over him as he viewed this object. He had no fear at all. He speculated this might have been due to its traveling in utter silence with this luminescent, sparkling, 'stardust' trailing behind. He compared it to Walt Disney's animated fairy godmother whom waves the magic wand with trailing 'stardust' coming off of it.

There is another eye-witness account but the second one is less reliable. Chech the following website for more: http://psi-app.com/SeptSightingD.htm

Huge Triagle website with "analysis" http://psi-app.com/SeptSightingA.htm

cool beans (don't forget paraspring!)

Oooh yes! Wge are not linked with these two topics? I'll post more there. My son's remark was that he hoped it was a new generation of aircraft since it has been a long time (relatively) since stealth technology was invented.

I wonder what believe each one of you for similar attestations. I wonder also why do not exist similar reports from professional or amateur astronomers, which are observing the sky with its own telescopes around the Earth. What is David�s opinion on the above story? Unfortunately or Happily, human senses are limited inside small windows. Science has also its own limits of knowledge and always has the necessity to prove with experiments. Only our imagination is absolutely free. Why we have the tendency to impress our friends in the name of thunder..? John

David is like his mother. He wants to SEE it for himself. That does not mean he rejects the findings. He is just witholding his judgment and waiting to either see it for himself or read some "reliable authority"'s report. This may take years as in with the stealth bomber. Why do we do this? I suspect much of it is wishful thinking of people who live very dull lives. It is about the only excitement they have. This alone is unfortunate!

perhaps folks without a scientific mind, an innocent mind, if you will, are more prone because they are open to things that aren't necessarily proven.

Ah yes. I wish we could be more innocent for many reasons. Our prejudices lock certain things out of our minds automatically. That is truly a pity.

Innocence is very dangerous in today�s world. But, you can say to me: What we must do? Sokrates, the Greek ancient philosopher, was saying: If you have some problem you must ask an expert. For example, you must ask a doctor if you have a health problem, you must ask a lawyer if you have a law problem, you must ask the corresponding technician if you have a technical problem, etc. But if does not exist the corresponding expert you must use logic. Do you think some other way for answering on complicated questions about the UFO�s? Personally, I accept what exactly means the term Unidentified Flying Objects and nothing more. John

As citizens of the 21st century, we are required to make ourselves as well informed as possible. This is what adults do! We vote and pay taxes and it is best if we know what is happening. However, in certain things as technology, I suspend belief for the interim and do not make decisions other than to ignore the wildly uninformed guessing and observations made by novices. Absolutley, UFOs are UNIDENTIFIED Flying Objects. I see them every day and each and every one of them lands at a nearby airport. Thanks, John! Your wisdom and insight is always right!

i suppose my use of the word "innocent" wasn't conveyed the way i had hoped. of course we must seek experts for things beyond us and yes, UFO's mean exactly what you say. i believe these folks believe they saw whatever it is in their mind they thought they saw. i believe they will fight you over it too because they are so convinced of it. i saw a UFO that turned out to be a mylar balloon that had escaped. it had floated in the air to a place where there weren't even mylar balloons on sale (out in the middle of nowhere at a drive-thru wildlife park). in that case, it became an IFO! on the other hand, i have seen things in the sky that i can't answer what is was or how it happened. not a flying object, but still the same.

Don and I saw a UFO a few weekends ago. We were getting resfreshments at a small diner in the countyside. As we cooled down from fossil hunting he noted a brilliant Brighter_than_Venus object in the sky. I was stationary. I looked. It seemed to brighten as time passed. It was steady and brilliant. We puzzled and I made mental notes "just in case." Then, I happened to notice that the nearby power pole was reflected in the window through which we were looking. I still did not catch on. Then, I turned to look at the power pole and was blinded by a glint from sun reflection on a parked car's chrome headlight surround. Eureka! THERE was my INDENTIFIED non-flying object. I must say, it had me more than a little puzzled and concerned as I KNEW these things do not exist. David has also seen something over the Nevada deserts he could not identify. He is not buying the idea that it was extra-terrestrial, but he is certain he could not identify what it truly was. Keep informed and your eyes open. If you see anything peculiar, take good mental notes to store for later study. Life has many adventures. Even the solvable ones can be wonderful adventures!

Splendid experiences Marcia. Thank you for publishing it here. Are you feeling disappointment finally? John

Not really disappointment - more like a feeling of relief. Don suggested that it is a case of Unidentified Flying Hypotheses that get us into trouble with these phenomena. I agree. UFH it is for me. I am more than a little distressed when such things happen to me. I KNOW they cannot be so my mind switches into hyper-gear and runs frantically hunting for a reasonable explanation. I am happy to report that in my experience, there are no UFOs of an extraterrestrial nature.

..yet...!

Dear Wolfie I must apologise for the way of my expression. I completely understood what you were meaning. But I fear that trying to express thrifty sentences, I become more than needed simple. It is mine personal choice because I believe that we must expresses essentially rather than using complicated thoughts and sentences. Please think also my real difficulties with English language and the different Greek way of expression. Please forgive my errors. I never learned correct English. I'm truly sorry! I ask your leniency. John

We are 2.5 dimensional existences. We have finite knowledge, logic and estimation. But we have the tendency to learn and explain every thing. Our technology has also its limits. Unfortunately we are completely conditional upon it. My poor opinion is that it is impossible to not exist extraterrestrial life but is equal impossible that we can have any contact with it. We must accept that we cannot answer in all possible questions. Simply we cannot know. The point isn�t on how SIMPLE or INGENUOUS we are but on what we believe that we know. You are correct Marcia and Wolfie. John

*HUGS* John, no need to apologize to me. We are all going to misunderstand each other once in awhile. I believe in things unseen. But that doesn't mean that I'm gullible either. I have experienced unexplainable phenomenon which is why I asked that ParaSpring be created. There are things we simply cannot know. We don't have the brains to fathom certain things. And since we don't know everything about science, we don't know what science can prove. And this is OK by me. I don't HAVE to know why things are the way they are. I'm simply curious.

Wolfie:I don't HAVE to know why things are the way they are. I'm simply curious. This is precisely the way I conclude my thoughts on things unseen and unknown. John's correct about there being things we cannot explain. Things we cannot know, yet reason tells us that it is so even if it is unprovable. Like life elsewhere in the Universe.Of course it is there. Can we know it? I sincerely doubt it.

India UFO attacks 'are coloured lightning balls' A scientist claims the 'UFOs' behind a series of attacks on Indian villagers are just balls of lightning. Professor Ravindra Arora says the coloured balls ranging from tennis to football size are caused by dry weather. Villagers in Uttar Pradesh claim they're being attacked by flying spheres emitting red and blue lights. At least seven people have died of unexplained injuries and others have suffered scratches and burns in the last week. Police say a 9cm-long winged insect may be responsible for the attacks while doctors think the wounds are self-inflicted. Professor Arora, of the Indian Institute of Technology-Kanpur, told Rediff.com: "I have sufficient reason to believe that the burn injuries on the faces of victims were caused by nothing other than these lightning balls. "Dry spells increase the soil resistance while decreasing its conductivity, and in the process attract lightning balls that emit different colour lights - mostly blue, green, yellow or red. "There is constant evidence of these balls over the ages. In all cases, people can see a ball-like object travelling sideways in the air that can produce up to 100 watts of current." One Uttar Pradesh villager, who claims to have been attacked, said: "I can't sleep because of the pain. It was like a big soccer ball with sparkling lights." Professor Arora says the problem should disappear once heavy rains arrive in the region. http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_650903.html?menu=news.scienceanddiscovery.phenomena

Meteorite changed Earth's history The impact would have created colossal tidal waves Scientists say they have found evidence that a gigantic meteorite, twice as big as the one which is believed to have wiped out the dinosaurs, collided with Earth billions of years ago. Deposits of the rock were found in South Africa and Australia, said a report in the Science journal. The 20-kilometre (12-mile) wide asteroid is believed to have hit the planet with such force that it would have caused tidal waves kilometres high and torn up the bottom of the ocean. Researchers from Stanford University in California and Louisiana State University say the cataclysmic event happened about 3.4 billion years ago, before continents were formed and when only bacteria existed. It is not known exactly where the giant meteorite hit as the scientists have not yet located a crater which would have been left by the impact. Evolution altered The report said the rock probably came from an asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. Researcher Gary Byerly said the object was likely to have been part of a shower of meteorites, some as wide as 50km (30 miles). "These impacts were very large. They really changed the course of the evolution on Earth," he said. The report does not say what changes the impact might have affected. "There isn't a big extinction event you can identify as cut-and-dried as the extinction of the dinosaurs," said co-author, Donald Lowe. Incredible tsunamis Mr Lowe said it would have taken the rock less than two seconds to pass through the ocean and slam into the sea bed. "That would generate enormous waves kilometres high that would spread out from the impact site, sweep across the ocean and produce just incredible tsunamis - causing a tremendous amount of erosion on the microcontinents and tearing up the bottom of the ocean," he said. Geologists found traces of the meteorite in South Africa's Barberton greenstone belt and Pilbara block in western Australia. The sites contain rocks formed more than three billion years ago and which contain information dating back to the beginning of the solar system. Source: BBC NEWS

I think there is also a theory which maintains that a meteorite crashing into the young Earth caused part of the forming planet to break off and become the Moon.

That is correct. One of the scenarios is described in: 24 Hours of Chaos: The Day The Moon Was Made Large number of asteroids continued to hit the newly formed Earth and Moon during the Late Heavy Bombardment period. Many scientists believe that rocks and dust blasted from Earth by asteroid impacts have landed on the Moon's surface. If such samples are retrieved from the Moon's surface, they can reveal a lot about the early history of Earth and the Solar system (See: Moon Holds Earth's Ancient Secrets)

I would be surprised if my first attempt to add links to a response was successful. It would be a serious violation of Murphy's Law...

Second attempt: 24 Hours of Chaos: The Day The Moon Was Made Moon Holds Earth's Ancient Secrets

Good! That's what happens if you don't listen to Marcia (who suggested using http://www.austen.com/tutorial/) and think that the example under "Adding HTML to Your Response" in http://www.spring.net/help/responding.html is clear enough. The quotation marks are missing...

Those internal little intricacies is what makes HTML programming such a challenge. Frustration is a common side-effect! 'Meteorite' hits girl Siobhan Cowton: "I saw it fall from above roof height" The odds against being hit by a meteorite are billions to one - but a teenager in North Yorkshire may have had one land on her foot. Siobhan Cowton, 14, was getting into the family car outside her Northallerton home at 1030 BST on Thursday when a stone fell on her from the sky. Noticing it was "quite hot", she showed it to her father Niel. The family now plan to have the stone analysed by scientists at Durham University. "I saw it fall from above roof height," Siobhan told BBC News Online. "It looked very unusual, with a bubbled surface and tiny indentations like volcanic lava. 'Shiny' "It was shiny on one side and looked rusty as if it contained iron. "I've seen shooting stars before - but nothing like this. This does not happen very often in Northallerton." Mr Cowton, 45, told BBC News Online he would take the stone to be analysed himself. "It is not going to leave my sight because it is a very rare find," he said. "It is worth a lot to Siobhan. "We will have it mounted in a glass presentation case so she can keep it for the rest of her life. "After all it is not every day you get hit by a meteorite. "The odds of winning the Lottery are better." The stone could have come from Mars, according to expert on Earth impacts Dr Benny Peiser, of Liverpool John Moores University. "It could be billions of years old and come from the earliest formation of the solar system," he told the Daily Mail newspaper. Most meteors are between five and 60 centimetres (1.95 in and 1 ft 11.5 in) long, according to Durham University physical geography lecturer Dr Ben Horton. "Sometimes they have shallow depressions and cavities," he said. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2218755.stm

http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/outreach1/expmetmys/expmetmys.htm a course in "meteorite mysteries".

That is an excellent source of easy information on meteorites! Thank you for posting it. I still want to add a meteorite to my collection...

Woman reunited with ring in apple after 27 years A woman has been reunited with a gold ring found inside an apple, 27 years after she says she lost it. Twelve-year-old Jamie-Louisa Arnold discovered the ring when she bit into an apple. Rosalind Pike, now 37, says she was given the �5 ring by her parents while on holiday. She lost it at a pool in Colchester, Essex, when she went swimming with her primary school in 1975. A gardening expert says it could have been dropped in a tree, by a bird or orchard worker, and the fruit formed around it. Rosalind told The Sun, which reported on the find earlier this week: "I couldn't believe it when I saw the picture of the ring - I just knew it was the same one I lost all those years ago. To see it inside an apple was incredibly spooky. I never thought I'd see it again." She added: "I knew it was mine because it had the same markings inside the band. It's an unusual design. My mum and dad bought me that ring when I was very young and I treasured it. I just can't believe I have found it after all these years. "I left the ring on my towel at the side of the pool but when I came out it had gone. I just assumed it had been lost. I just wish the ring could talk and tell me exactly what has happened over the years." Jamie-Louisa, from Cowlinge, Suffolk, bit on the ring while eating an apple at a holiday park near Colchester. She said: "I feel very happy that Rosalind saw the story and has claimed it." The Sun's gardening expert Peter Seabrook said the ring could have been dropped in a tree. Orchard workers often thin apple crops by hand, flicking off under-sized fruits with their fingers so that the others can grow bigger. Mr Seabrook said: "The apple is only the size of a thumbnail at this time. A ring could fall off on to the fruitlet. The odds are long - but it is possible the fruit could seal around the ring." http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_655818.html?menu=news.scienceanddiscovery.phenomena

Lost city in Georgia resurfaces again A city in Georgia which was flooded 50 years ago to make way for a lake has begun emerging again. Petersburg was once the state's second largest city and has resurfaced amid the sinking waters of Thurmond Lake. Army Corps of Engineers flooded 72,000 acres to build the Lake in the early 1950s. Most of the city's ruins still lie beneath the lake's waters, which have sunk more than 14 feet , exposing old roadbeds, fence lines and brick foundations. There's also historical litter, such as rusty spikes and broken glass. "We get a lot of questions, and we have a few people who come all the way out here just to see it," said Jerry Cook, assistant manager at Bobby Brown State Park, which straddles Thurmond Lake's shoreline. Petersburg was founded as a tobacco town in the late 1700s and peaked in 1809, when 45,000 people lived in the Broad River Valley. But then the economy dried up and the settlement dwindled as quickly as it had grown. http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_665946.html?menu=

Is life the rule or the exception? The answer may be in the interstellar clouds Some scientists have theorised that life on Earth began when amino acids, the building blocks of life, were delivered from space by comets and asteroids. The European Space Agency is planning two missions to help gather more evidence. Rosetta, due for launch in 2003, will study the composition of gas and dust released from a comet to sense what kinds of organic molecules they contain, while Herschel, due for launch in 2007 will focus on the chemistry of interstellar space, searching for traces of the material in distant clouds of dust. [ Visit News Source ] Complete story in ESA portal

Rosetta seems to be the catchword for any new technology to seek out information. Of course, anyone watching the big buildup for little results of the pyramid television program this week will know that without the Rosetta stone we could not read heiroglyphics - or perhaps we could. Did anyone find that program interesting. I got rather tired of seeing that Egyptian archaeologist (known in certain circles as a "glory hound") use most of the time talking about how great his ancestors were. I wonder if DNA proves that. Just curious.

Mystery Object Orbits Earth NASA Science News for September 20, 2002 A puzzling object that recently entered Earth orbit appears set to leave again soon. What is it? Researchers believe it's an Apollo rocket on a fantastic journey through the solar system. FULL STORY at http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/20sep_mysteryobject.htm?list89800

Mirror matter mystery By Dr David Whitehouse BBC News Online science editor Two Australian scientists believe they have found evidence of a parallel universe of strange matter within our own Solar System. Dr Robert Foot and Dr Saibal Mitra, of the University of Melbourne, report that close-up observations of the asteroid Eros by the Near-Shoemaker probe indicate it has been splattered by so-called "mirror matter". Mirror matter is not anti-matter, it is altogether weirder. It is somehow a "reflection" of normal matter, a sort of parallel series of particles required to restore the balance of the Universe. Sounds far-fetched - some believe so. However, experiments are underway to confirm or deny the existence of this strange, potentially significant but as yet undetected component of the cosmos. Source and complete document: BBC NEWS, Science/Nature

Mirrors? Imagine the possibilities! Thank you for that,John. I have been a little out of the loop lately, but that is about to change. At least, in theory. I will get some time each day on the modem until I leave here, then I will have full time. Thank you all for hanging in there with me. This has been VERY difficult.

"Through the Looking Glass", indeed.

100,000 tourists flock to see mysterious Thai fireballs More than 100,000 tourists flocked to a remote part of Thailand to see a mysterious phenomenon in which coloured fireballs shoot into the sky. more and pictures... http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_694513.html?menu=news.scienceanddiscovery.phenomena

I will be in this area in two weeks. I'll report what I might discover other than the fact that it is a hoax: It's a hoax! The names of the teenagers in this story have been changed to protect their identities - Editor. Four Fairfield teenagers claim they created the mysterious crop circles that popped up in a Rockville Road wheat field in June, drawing thousands of curious onlookers and nationwide media attention. http://www.thereporter.com/

Did I post this before? Pictures are on the link. Archaeologists examine 'pre-historic stone faces' Archaeologists say five stones with faces carved into them - which have been ignored for decades after being found in Massachusetts - could be prehistoric relics. more... http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_784886.html?menu=

About those crop circles... they suddenly stopped appearing. It seems the police caught the kids making them.

Thus, the new agers and their $$ for local establishments disappeared, too.

Hi Marci! Still around but have been 'slightly preoccupied'. I did get to pay a brief visit to Salem, MA last week while on a business trip - cool place to visit - interesting ambience. 73 de AA9IL Mike

Hi Mike! Did you sample the witches? I heard that was a requisit activity in Salem. MA. It is a very interesting town! Different...! Drop in anytime. We're happy to hear anything from you whenever you can manage it. Enjoy the lack of snow while you can. I am enjoying the 100 which feels like 116 temperatures in California. But, no crop circles!

Another Atlantis? Divers find ruins of mythical city off India Explorers believe they have discovered remains of a mythical city off the coast of India. According to legend it was swallowed up by the sea about 2,000 years ago. photos and more... http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_563330.html

This article goes on to mention Graham Hancock. I have two of his books. Take them with the proverbial grain of salt.

Lake disappears suddenly in Chile Scientists in Chile are investigating the sudden disappearance of a glacial lake in the south of the country. When park rangers patrolled the area in the Magallanes region in March, the two-hectare (five-acre) lake was its normal size, officials say. But last month they found a huge dry crater and several stranded chunks of ice that used to float on the water. One theory is that an earthquake opened up a fissure in the ground, allowing the lake's water to drain through. "In March we patrolled the area and everything was normal," Juan Jose Romero from Chile's National Forestry Corporation, Conaf, said. "We went again in May and to our surprise we found that the lake had completely disappeared. All that was left were chunks of ice and an enormous fissure." Geologists and other experts are being sent to the area, which is some 2,000km (1,250 miles) south of the capital, Santiago, to investigate. The region is shaken by frequent earth tremors and one idea is that a strong quake which hit the neighbouring region of Aysen in April opened up the fissure in the bottom of the lake. A glacier specialist, Andres Rivera, told Chilean newspaper La Tercera that the lake's disappearance seemed to be part of the continual reforming of the landscape. The Magallanes area "has seen interesting changes in the last few decades," he said, noting that the lake itself had not been there 30 years ago. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6225676.stm

This lake appears to be the sort of Gacial artifact that appear seeminly suddenly and disappear the same way. It will be interesting to watch this.