Art of the Ancient World

~riette Sat, Aug 8, 1998 (05:11) seed

The best known artists of the Ancient World were undoubtedly the Egyptians. To ancient Egyptian artists it was the so-called eternal essence that mattered in their paintings. Their art was not concerned with the changeable variation of externals for visual appeal; their paintings were subject to rigid standardization of forms, often becoming symbols. Thus we can derive that art fulfilled essentially an intellectual function in their society (their technical skill and understanding of natural forms mak s it clear that they were by no means primitive as artists). Their subjects were always shown from the angle that would make them most clearly identifiable, and sized according to social hierarchy. And have you ever noticed that the feet are always both shown from the inside view in standing figures? Some paintings have been preserved from a variety of other cultures of ancient Europe as well. There were the Minoan, the Mycenaean, the Etruscan, and then came the civilizations of Greece and Rome. In this topic I will be discussing (hopefully with examples) their art - so feel free to join in!

~terry Sun, Aug 9, 1998 (07:12) #1

Perhaps we could find some examples in some of the museum and art web sites on the net to discuss.

~riette Sun, Aug 9, 1998 (08:34) #2

I've found some really good examples already, Terry - some really good ones worth discussing. I'll get them in here, okay? I'm really enjoying this journey of art research I have embarked upon, and have seen and read some pretty exciting things. I'll share them once I've got the images in here so that people won't wonder what we're talking about or get bored.

~wolf Sun, Aug 9, 1998 (11:46) #3

i have always liked Egyptian art (the ancient ones). i'm no way an expert or even a novice in the art department (history) but i would love to see some of those things posted here. educate me!

~riette Sun, Aug 9, 1998 (12:38) #4

I will. Don't worry about whether you're an expert or not. I think every point of view is important in art, because often people are so educated, they stop looking with unprejudiced eye. And everyone sees different things in different paintings - only by sharing different points of view will we come to truly understand and appreciate art.

~autumn Sun, Aug 9, 1998 (22:44) #5

I haven't seen examples of Mycenean art since college! ("Art in the Dark", remember?)

~terry Sun, Aug 9, 1998 (23:11) #6

Neat stuff, Riette, you're on such a roll, girl!

~riette Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (01:21) #7

Told you I was turning into a tomato! Oh dear, I was just wanting to discuss the painting technique of the Egyptians to keep us busy until the first picture comes in, but I'm being . . . ouch! . . . trampled by two very awake little girls, so, I'll be back a bit later.

~riette Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (04:49) #8

Okay, I'm back, though only for twenty minutes - have an important lunch date today. Okay, the painting techniques of the Egyptians: So far I've been able to find out about two tecniques: the fresco secco technique used in wall paintings where tempera is applied to plaster that has been allowed to dry first. (Tempera is a term applied to any paint in which the pigment is dissolved in water and mixed with an organic gum or glue, such as egg for example.) And then there was the buon fresco technique in which the painting is done on wet plaster. But that's all I know. Does anyone know of other methods used? Or more details perhaps?

~KitchenManager Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (21:46) #9

Lamenting Women (wall painting from the tomb of Ramose) c. 1370 BC

~riette Thu, Aug 13, 1998 (01:02) #10

Thank you, Wer. Okay, so this is our first example of Egyptian painting (fresco secco technique). I chose this one, because it contains all the classic elements Egyptian art: The women in the painting are flat and scematic (though their anguished gestures clearly express grief). The subject is shown from the angle that would make it most clearly identifiable, and sized according to their place in social hierarchy. The head is always shown in profile, yet the eyes are always drawn from the front. Unfortunately one can't see it in this photo, but the feet are always painted from the inside view. There is also no perspective in these paintings - everything appears two-dimensi nally.

~autumn Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (22:01) #11

I love those 5 in the middle that are practically cheek-to-cheek. Wonder wehat that's all about?

~riette Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (01:13) #12

It is a tomb painting, from the tomb of Ramose, and this, I presume, is his funeral procession. Ramose was a minister under two pharaohs of the 18th dynasty, Amenhotep III and Amenhotep IV. I almost wonder if these women could be his wives and children . . . but that would make the five in the middle quintoplets (or whatever that's called)!!! No wonder he died.

~riette Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (01:26) #13

Here is another wonderful tomb painting: Fowling Scene Tomb of Nebamun Thebes, Egypt c. 1400 BC 81cm high Originally this painting was only one part of a larger work, which included a fishing scene also. Everything is shown in great detail, yet somehow it is an idealized scene - which I find enchanting. The nobleman stands in his boat, holding the birds he has just caught. He is accompanied by his beautiful wife wearing a smart costume, and a fancy sort of headdress, and holding a bouquet; her and the small figure of his daughter squatting between his legs. Look at how she picks the lotus flower from the water. It is also a good example of how it was conventional for figures to be shown large or smal according to their status.

~wolf Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:06) #14

i love the detail of the wildlife in this painting. it must have proved helpful when identifying the animals that existed in Eygpt at that time. And family must have been an important part of their life as they are all on the excursion together.

~riette Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:06) #15

Clever conclusion - I think you're right.

~autumn Sun, Aug 16, 1998 (21:03) #16

I like this one too--the use of birds & fish is a nice change, and portraying the family was a nice touch.

~riette Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (01:10) #17

You bet! The next example is this stunning painted sculpture: Head of Nefertiti c. 1360 BC Nefertiti was the wife of the Pharaoh Akhenaten, and this sculpture is as poignant as a Botticelli head - the same touching exquisite wistfulness in the expression. It also demonstrates a loosening of the rigid conventions that governed most Egyptian art, because Akhenaten broke with the traditional style when he became a pharaoh. During his reign, the paintings, carvings, and sculptures that were produced reflected this in that they were refreshingly graceful and original.

~wolf Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:36) #18

i love this, it looks so real (and wasn't she beautiful?)

~autumn Mon, Aug 17, 1998 (17:47) #19

Isn't it incredible to think that it has survived, intact, for 3300 years?? Flawless. Has it ever been restored, Riette?

~riette Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (00:52) #20

No; it is thought to have been a workshop model, because it was found in the ruins of a sculptor's studio. Pretty incredible, hey?

~riette Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (04:45) #21

And what is an Egyptian topic without the Great Sphinx? So, here goes: Great Sphinx Probably from the Old Kingdom c. 2620 BC Pink Granite Height: 1,83m Width: 4,80m This great sculpture stands in the Louvre Museum, Paris, which I also visited last year. Unfortunately the department of Egyptian Antiquities was closed for renovation, so I could not see it - which was very dissappointing. But the Louvre now boasts an Egyptian Dept. which displays remains of civilizations along the banks of the Nile, dating from the time of Nagada (about 4000 years before our time), up to the Christian era, around the 11th century. The collection consists of 5000 works displayed in an area of 4,120 square meters. You cannot imagine how utterly VAST this museum is until you're there. I spent over 18 hours there last year (even without the Egyptian collection!!), and was in a great deal of pain that evening - my feet literally had blisters, even though I wandered through the museum bare footed.

~autumn Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:14) #22

I don't even remember an Egyptian section at the Louvre...is it new?

~riette Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (01:30) #23

I think there used to be a tiny section which no-one ever bothered to visit, and so they really made an effort with it, and came up with this the end of last year. We'll have to go back now, you realize.

~riette Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (01:38) #24

'Funeral Portrait' Antinoopolis End of the Reign of Traja 98-117AD Wax portrait on wood I find this one just stunning, and very un-Egyptian. Just look at the expression in those large eyes, the rich colours used, the very texture of the girl's skin. Very beautiful.

~autumn Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (18:25) #25

This one's incredible--she looks more INdian than Egyptian to me. And in wax, no less.

~wolf Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (21:40) #26

i agree autumn. look how low her hairline is. but her eyes just steal the show!

~riette Fri, Aug 21, 1998 (02:05) #27

Yep, the girl must have been a mega-babe back then!

~riette Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (09:03) #28

Karomama c. 1300BC

~autumn Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (14:08) #29

Do you think she once held something? Her arms are in an odd position.

~wolf Sat, Aug 22, 1998 (19:18) #30

i know! was wondering the same thing!

~riette Sun, Aug 23, 1998 (01:02) #31

My guess is it's Terry's tool!!!

~autumn Mon, Aug 24, 1998 (21:50) #32

LOL!!!

~KitchenManager Tue, Aug 25, 1998 (23:07) #33

Terry's tool is an antique? I wonder when he had it appraised last...

~riette Wed, Aug 26, 1998 (01:18) #34

ha-ha! Terry's Tool is eTernal. And I was referring more to size than anything else!

~riette Thu, Aug 27, 1998 (06:11) #35

Fragment of a bust of Amenophis IV - Akhenaton c.1365-1360BC Sandstone with residues of paint.

~autumn Sun, Aug 30, 1998 (15:39) #36

I bet this thing in HUGE, it's so imposing!

~riette Mon, Aug 31, 1998 (01:08) #37

Yes, the Egyptians really did go for 'Size does matter!'.

~riette Thu, Sep 3, 1998 (13:12) #38

Seated Scribe 2600-2400 BC Painted Limestone Height: 53.7cm Width: 44cm

~autumn Thu, Sep 3, 1998 (22:26) #39

I remember this one from college (more slides!) Very prestigious position.

~riette Fri, Sep 4, 1998 (00:59) #40

Sorry about that - no idea what they show people in college!