I am glad you moved this Jake thanks and thanks for your opinion about AMITC. How can you stand all of this gushy stuff.

]How can you stand all of this gushy stuff. Simple: men gush too, just in a different key & laconically

Well....here is a really short part of the dream i had. I was standing patiently. I then said "I've figured out why you've been acting so rude and arrogant. Your daughter in Boston is in the hospital. They tink she has luekimia but are not sure. I would not have taken it out on other people who can maybe h elp you. She needs a bone marrow transplant. If I were you I would go to her." I began to walk away when he stopped me.

Cat, please don't tease us this way. THEN what happened? ;-)

It's New Year's Eve, so naturally I'm browsing here and other CF sites while waiting for midnight hour of champagne to hit the West Coast here...found this bit at the Paris connection for Colin, and in memory of "daggy days" post it here for Cheryl & C o.--- Male costume and the male body also figured prominently in the gossip that circulated ceaselessly around the adaptation. It was confidentially claimed by the Times on 20 November 1995 that a million women, no more and no less, wanted to unbutton the damp white shirt that was worn by Colin Firth when he played Mr Darcy. It was auctioned for charity and fetched � 500. What the Sun described on 1 November 1995 as Darcy's 'straining breeches with the trapdoor front' may well have fetched considerably more had they too gone under the hammer. Mr Darcy's trousers attracted even more attention than Elizabeth Bennet's frocks and cleavage. . . .Mr Darcy's trousers still figured prominently in the mind's eye of those who had to write articles recording the high point s of the year. According to the Times on 26 December 1995, they were, without any doubt at all, the outfit of the year: Nothing came close to Colin Firth and those trousers. . . .The sight of Firth wearing button flap, full-fronted breeches sent women everywhere into fainting fits. Thee Regency dandy's pre- ference for a snug fit added to the garment's charm. The Independent declared on the same day that Firth was its man of the year because he was a 'sex symbol to outshine all Hollywood's hunkiest'. Those trousers were speaking for, as well as to, England. Clint Eastwood they ain't.

I always liked The Independent..... Did Colin ever say which Football team he watches when he is in Hackney? If my memory serves me right, the nearest gound is at West Ham. Arsenal isn't far, and neither is Chelsea.....

Alfresco: " in memory of "daggy days" post it here for Cheryl & Co.--- " My dear, dear friend, on behalf of my "company" I do heartily thank you the fascinating words and the no less fascinating images they conjured (you will excuse the expression) up! Mr Darcy's trousers still figured prominently in the mind's eye of those who had to write articles recording the high points of the year. ...as they will ever figure prominately in our mind's eye... The sight of Firth wearing button flap, full-fronted breeches sent women everywhere into fainting fits. ...Oh my, yes...Candace, pass the smelling salts, please... The Regency dandy's preference for a snug fit added to the garment's charm. ...indeed it does! Oh most daggy indeed! What a pleasant way to ring in the New Year...now if I could only decide whether to ring to the right or to the left...I believe I shall do both...and enjoy the very great pleasure I am sure it will provide!

I wonder if, for a modest $75 per person, the new owner of CF's shirt could be persuaded to circulate the shirt (like a library book) globally every seven days? A Charlotte Lucas would see the valuable possibilities in that. (Sigh. but I'm too Marianne m yself to do that!)

Here is a bit more... "You are right" he said "I have not treated you or your famil the way I should have. You have inconvienienced yourselves for my sake. You have let me into your home but I treated you with contempt. How could you ever forgive me?". "Mr. Firth," I began . "Oh! Please call me Colin." he interupted. "Colin," I corrected myself,"You are forgiven. It wouldn't matter if you murdered my father. I would forgive you (yeah right). I cannot hold grudges against people. It is not in my nature. Now go to you daughter and hurry back." I said playfully nudging him.

While he was gone I went to get my bone marrow tested. It was a match. I donated the marrow she needed and told the doctor I wished to remain anonymous. When he came back I asked "Well?". "she will be fine. I wish I knew who gave her the marrow. The doctor told us a young lady came in and donated it but wished to remain anonymous. Who could do such a thing? I am endebted to that person. She saved my daughter's life!" he said. At that moment my good friend Shannon walked in the room. "Well?" she sked me,"does he know?"

Ooooh, I like the way you write so suspensefully, Cat!

Wendy: "Ooooh, I like the way you write so suspensefully, Cat!" She is such a tease, is she not? ;-)

Colin does have a way of fulfilling women's dreams..."straining breeches" and all.

I am sorry to keep you all in suspense. I hardly have the time to write it all out. I did write the whole thing out last week but something happened to where it could not get through. Here is some more. I shook my head no. "Hey!" Colin said, "What happened to your arm?" "I had an operation." I replied. "Why?" he asked. "To donate marrow to some little girl." Shannon said. "It was you?" he asked me. "Yes, it was me." I replied shyly. "I am FOREVER endebted to you." He said. "No." I replied. "I would have done it for others too." After Shannon left we took a walk to the park. I then blurted out "Did you really kiss Jennifer Ehle?" "Yes." he replied. "What does it feel like to kiss someone you on't love?" I asked. "It feels like kissing someone but not caring about it." he replied. I then said under my breathe "What does it feel to kiss someone at all?" He must have heard me or something because he then stopped and turned to me. and leaned t oward me. "He is going to kiss me!" I thought my mind raced.

From this point on it really gets out of hand.

Cat - you are a dreadful tease!!;-) PLEASE continue.

I think Cat must be running into the same PG innuendo wall we all do here ;-)

besides, imagination is often better than explication ;-)

Another tiny problem is I believe Cat said she was supposedly 13 in the dream. Why, we don't know, but CF would in real life be very wary around a minor.

I can't go on. The rest is TOOOOOO embarassing....

I was thirteen but I wasn't thirteen. I didn't know I was thirteen until this next part....

]..."Why, we don't know, but CF would in real life be very wary around a minor." I meant to say, Why Cat is 13 in her dream we don't know, but CF, being an intelligent/law-abiding person, would in real life be very wary around a minor.

Well here I am in Topic 4! Ostentatious Jane received some e-mail from J Brushfield regarding a New Book about Darcy (since this appears to be a Darcy thread too). S/he writes: At last, a new book about �Pride and Prejudice� endorsed by the Curator of Jane Austen's House at Chawton. Published in England in July 1996 and already reprinted twice. For more information, see - Our URL, which is: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/estate/xda34/ if you want to see the cover or to read the author's comments. Darcy's Story is at present available only by airmail from England. The book has 240 pages, and the ISBN is 0 9528210 2 8. AS YOU LIVE OUTSIDE THE UNITED KINGDOM, If you want to purchase one or more copies of Darcy's Story, please send us a letter by airmail to the address below, enclosing: 1. your name 2. your address 3. an international money order for �9.00 (pounds sterling) for each copy of the book. This amount includes the cost of airmail postage and packing. 4. tell us how many copies you want. Your order will be sent immediately by return on receipt of your name, address and international money order. Please send your order to: COPPERFIELD BOOKS HILLBROOK HOUSE LYNCOMBE VALE ROAD BATH BA2 4LS UNITED KINGDOM and if you enjoy the book, please tell your friends. We offer 20% discount for orders of 10 copies or more at one time ! We look forward to hearing from you. And here's the cover!

Ooh, what enjoyable reading you all provide! With all this wet shirt talk and snug fitting breeches and Cat's eventually upcoming first kiss I hardly know how to keep up appearances. Maybe a book migth help me recollect my proper countenance. What!! is it all about Darcy from beginning to end?? Can it be just a bait for us droolers all over the world? Never mind 240 pages of Darcy for me would ,I suppose, be like a whole campful of soldiers to Lydia! I think I'll venture it.Will have to remake the cover pic though...

This is for you, Auntie! Quote from my newspaper on CF: "Firth, who was so persuasive in last season's P&P, once more proves he's one of Britains top leading men." AMEN!

Aaaaahhhh, Men!

]Ooh, what enjoyable reading you all provide! With all this wet shirt talk and snug fitting breeches Topic #43 has some hot Darcy stuff happening too; check out Wendy's 11-part rendition called Romance Under the Elms.

In response to Caroline's message # 206. I beg to differ. Hackney is in NE London. I'm not sure if Upton Park (West Ham) (East London) is the closest, Highbury (Arsenal) and Tottenham (both NNE London) are fairly near as well. Stamford Bridge (Chel sea) (South West) on the other hand is right across the other side of London.

After three months of faithful reading, I have finally penetrated the 'daggy' references -- or should I say they have finally penetrated me.

Katy: After three months of faithful reading, I have finally penetrated the 'daggy' references -- or should I say they have finally penetrated me. Good for you Katy! Welcome! ;-)

This is probably the wrong thread to be confessing this, but I have to get it off my chest, so to speak. Actually, better to confess it here than on FoF, where I would probably be virtually stoned. But, to the point, after seeing "The English Patient" a nd "Nostromo," I realized, as some others here have too, that it is indeed Mr. Darcy and not Mr. Firth that I am obsessed with. I understood perfectly why Kristin Scott Thomas had an affair with Ralph Fiennes when she was married to Colin Firth, whereas would never have understood if Lizzy-Jennifer cheated on Darcy-Colin. Does that make sense? As for "Nostromo," I thought Colin was cute, but he just didn't do for me what he did as Mr. Darcy. Am I a heretic now? Or have others experienced something similar. (I must say that I did find Alfresco's gypsy story quiet, umm titilating. Perhaps it all depends upon the role.) But it made me a little sad to learn that I was obsessed with someone who doesn't exist as opposed to someone who's merely unobtainable, i.e. Colin Firth. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

Mary H, I think you'll find many of us agree with you. We've discussed this before and come up with the same conclusion, Firth is an excellent actor but it's Mr Darcy we long for. I think I remeber Firth saying pretty much the same thing in a interview I once rea d. Something to the affect that woman have been in love Mr. Darcy for 200 years, he just play the character. Mich

I can seperate Mr. Darcy from CF,but every time I think of CF it is has Mr.Darcy so far (no matter what else he has done). CF has but a face(as many have said)to Mr. Darcy.I have to say I do see some of the same mannerisms portrayed in other movies (No stromo. Maybe I shouldn't watch any of his movies.;-) Who am I kidding.

'I have finally penetrated the 'daggy' references -- or should I say they have finally penetrated me.' Now some people have all the luck, don't they?

CF has "but" a face? Donna, what does that reference mean! I think you really are trying to tempt me into making unladylike comments about Mr. Darcy. First the 5-6 inches in the chat room and now this!

Hilary - you are BAAAAD!!!;-)

Egads!Mary,Mary has a daggy mind.;-)

I saw Ghosts of Mississippi tonight and a character used the phrase "Hunka Burnin' Love"!! I almost spit up! Unfortunately, the person to whom this moniker was directed was decidedly unDarcy-like... :-(

For all the "Daggettes" - Firth: An Explanation in Rhyme There was a young man named Fitzwilliam Whom women swooned o'er by the million; Firth with his dark hair And wonderful stare Stood tall in those pants and quite filling 'em ;-)

Wonderful Wendy! LOL!! Are you still around? Come to Pemberley, there's a party going on! :-)

Katy, re: the penetration comment: YUCK!!!!! ;)

re: yuck Spelling problem or typo, Kali?;-)

Wendy - LOL! You are indeed a master at both prose and poetry. Congratulations!;-)

Here's a refined version of my Baths image for all of you, Ladies! But Amy, Cheryl and Candace, I suppose you will all prefer those nice images of the real wet Darcy sent by Anna! ;-) LOL

Colin Firth fans would enjoyreading an article in the English paper the Daily Telegraph which (in the colour supplement) this last Saturday 12 January has an article about CF which ends with him confirming that his relationship with his Italian girlfriend is serious (as shown by the handsome ring she is wearing).

Janet, I am so glad you made it in. Thanks for the pointer. I'll bet the firthlisters have a copy somewhere online.

The Firthlist apparently did have the Telegraph article, but I missed it as I only skim and often delete it unread (sorry, droolers, only so much time). The story is not yet up at the FOF site, but I am sure it won't be long before it is up. Keep checking http://www.iupui.edu/~rogersc/articles.html

Well, I for one am glad for Colin! At 36, with a child, a burgeoning career, etc., he deserves to be happily married and in love. :)

A real life romance...how sweet!

I'll bet Meg Tilly now feels lame for wasting seven years of her life. That ring should have been hers... ---- Katy, dearest...I think you know what I mean! ;)

A Clinical Observation of Post-Firth Engagenment Syndrome by "Dr. France" ;-) As is the case when an eligible bachelor film star becomes engaged or married, many female fans may find themselves with some of these symptoms: anger, denial, sense of betrayal, jealousy, envy, frustration, eating disorders,sleep disorders, withdrawal s ymptoms, tantrums, depression, ...the list is long. They will learn eventually to detach themselves from his life choices, but this may be accompanied for a time of disliking him or refusing to have to do with his films or frantic letters to him or friends involving detailed explanations of why his choice of partner was such a poor one, etc. Of course, many fans never develop this syndrome, having long ago separated their star's life from their own, and they continue to enjoy his looks and whatever films of merit he makes. Then we have the special case of Character vs. Actor Love, as some of my callers have spoken about on previous shows: Darcy vs. Firth is one such case. ]from MaryH. above: "But it made me a little sad to learn that I was obsessed with someone who doesn't exist as opposed to someone who's merely unobtainable, i.e. Colin Firth." This is a syndrome appears to affect a particular segment of fans, those wit h unusual reading habits, high IQ, dry humor, Anglo turns of phrase in their own speech patterns, a tendency to roll on the floor and laugh outloud when on the computer, bilateral drooling, and visiting chat rooms at late hours. It seems to be a harmless condition, however, that clears up on its on at death, leaving no distinguishing marks other than a certain smile. (this portion of Dr. France show brought to you by Depends...)

Thank you doctor. I feel so much better. (LOL, very clever)

Well, I still like my husband and he's married.

It's probably just a phase. All stars go through them.

Wonderful France! Thanks, I was ROTFLOL! ;-)

Thank you Dr. France. Since ROTFLOLing, bilateral drooling, and anglo turns of phrasing are included in your "normal" patterns of behaviour, I'm happy that I'll be able to continue these along with visits to chat rooms, etc.!;-)

'clears up on its own at death, leaving no distinguishing marks other than a certain smile' - hmmmm...its definitely chronic then? There could be plenty worse ways to go, I guess...... Thanks, France.

Thank you, Dr. France for diagnosing what ails me recently...but I must agree with Kali that Meg Tilly, mother of Colin's beloved son, should have been the beneficiary of such a most important event in one's life. It seemed to me that "they" who put such a premium on privacy should be together!

Thank you, Marina. ;) Actually, France, I'm not much of a Firth-drooler. I just like playing with you guys and taking potshots at snooty men who don't really like Jane Austen - like CF! :::)

I am beginning to feel that there's some type of an actors' hierarchy involved with perhaps Shakespear at the top of the pyramid and period drama or Jane Austen at the bottom. An actor perhaps agrees to do Austen when there is no other choice?

] actors' hierarchy involved with perhaps Shakespear at the top of the pyramid and period drama or Jane Austen at the bottom. __ I hope not. But I can see how there might be some carried over distaste of the old style BBC literary adaptations and the associations that go along with them -- chiefly: low budget. But I don't know. Just guessing.

And don't forget the fact that Austen, and most "romantic" period drama, is wimmin's territory...;)

Hullo, Kali! My above post re: CF engagement was not directed at your prior comment (Meg Tilly should've been the one...) which I agree with in principle. Some friends and I had such mixed reactions to the news that I was trying to put everything in a l arger perspective of (cosmic, ironic) humor.

It strikes me as strange that romance is considered wimmin's territory and at the same time men continue to profess a desire for a strong relationship with wimmin, but have little interest in romance. I used to believe the reason for this w as that genuine romance, not syrupy cliche, was so difficult to create. However, whenever romance is created, men run; they don't attempt to imitate or analyze it. This seems to go against basic Darwinian principals.

]However, whenever romance is created, men run; they don't attempt to imitate or analyze it. This seems to go against basic Darwinian principals. Actually, Elaine, I think Darwinian theory would predict that men would seek multiple partners and, therefore, would not tend to want to form romantic, long term relationships.

Yes. Four years is about right, according to a book about this. Only it's us. Women are wired to tire of partners for the sake of differentiation of the gene pool. Guys, they just have to spread around the seed as much as possible for the survival of spec ies.

But, could not one spread around the seed more efficiently if they had the ability to create romance?

Elaine. Yes one would suppose that ability to create and keep up romance for a while at least, would permit access to wider ranges of the female population. But if they won't take the troble to practise... To Frances, LOL and I simply love that smile on the lips of a deceased addict

Several comments: Re men running from romance of the real kind: I've always thought women tend to be more hard-nosed than men about who they choose for partners, Men often seem to me to get hopelessly carried away by those they are attracted to. Re syrupy cliched romance: There's so much on TV, its not surprising lots of people think its the real thing, or don't know any other approaches. P&P goes against the norm and thats one of the reasons I love it. Re Darwin: From what I can gather, this is such a complex field to understand, and there are many differing theories. The theory that does seem to be accepted now is the idea of the 'selfish gene' - that organisms exist to pass on their genes. Hence the idea that ea ch sex on an instinctial level acts to ensure that there genes will get passed on. For humans this pattern has to accomodate the fact that our babies require many years of nuturing. So while the instinct for men is to spread the seed, it is also tempered y the requirement of ensuring that the children concieved are also are reared well for some years, otherwise the genes won't continue. Womens interst in getting their genes passed on requires the protection and support of the male. But there is evidence that widenning the gene pool is accomplished but women having the odd affair, which the non- biol father then helps to rear.

. 'Womens interst in getting their genes passed on requires the protection and support of the male. But there is evidence that widenning the gene pool is accomplished but women having the odd affair, which the non- biol father then helps to rear.' LOL - that was a distracted and garbled ending. Let me try again. Women choose men who will support them for long enough to rear their children, because that is the best way of ensuring the woman's genes, hence their interest in lon term relationships. B ut this is tempered by the not uncommon action of women having the occasional affair, thus widenning the gene pool. In this case the offspring, if any, is supported by a (usually unknowing) non-biological father. So the society in general is mostly monogo ous, with exceptions built in. And I guess on top off all this is the influence of intellegence, and notions of civilization. I am not a biologist.....please excuse this rave if you know better!

Pray excuse my entering this conversation, but as a "romance" writer (usually I write satire, as it happens) I have been happily surprised at the gentlemen who have requested my booklet this past two weeks. But then, the persons who frequent this conference are quite different from the norm, and to be commended for their Austen spiritedness, as well as interest in romance of a teazing sort.

Am I on your list yet Wendy?

Okay, France...I hear ya! ;)

]Am I on your list yet Wendy? My dear Miss Amy, Had you not even asked it was yours as a gift, duly yours as proprietress of this charming Spring tearoom and one in the honeymoon epilogue! After all, one must show some token of gratitude for your commitment to P&P2 and us. Appreciatively, Wendy

P.S. The (summit) behind my name on posts here at Spring now accesses my true email account at AOL, instead of an apparent deadend at Netscape's innovations.com.

I think that there are some men who at least have an intellectual curiousity about romance, but this seems to be the exception...more often a man will make a cute, disparaging remark and roll his eyes. On the other hand, the need for adventure and risk t aking more prevalent in men is generally accepted if not embrassed by women.

Wendy, I am in the honeymoon? Now I really can't wait. A chambermaid maybe? Better still, valet? Clergyman? Doctor? Third in 3some?

Looking at all this from a Jungian perspective, a number of men (represented partly in the arts, writers, etc.) have a highly developed anima or feminine side that allows them a more balanced perception and appreciation of wimmin's take on love, li fe, and the world. This is not the exclusive ability of homosexuals, BTW. Conversely, a number of wimmin have an animus percentage above average so they find socalled male activities and perceptions easier to join in and/or appreciate than wimmin with a different ratio built in. I think these men and wimmin provide a sort of buffer zone between the more extremely opposite segments of the human population, and I am grateful that many of them, male and female, become writers, etc., to show everyone else the possibilities of connexi on between the two sexes (rather than just the "battle of the sexes" we often hear about).

Nicely put, France. Jung was onto something, a good many somethings, was he not?

Amy, this is an 1813 Austen romance, remember, so you are a very proper but convivial hostess of a Lake District restaurant Darcy and Lizzy frequent during their week's stay..

]Third in 3some? Amy!

I was going to say go for it, Amy! Now I have to offer commiserations. Nicely put, France. I like what you say.

France is smart - nice going France! :) --- Oh, come on, Myretta...;)

Gentle Readers: I've given some thought to Amy's comment above since yesterday and in her defense must say the following: a) it is only natural that we addicts of Darcy and P&P2 would want to be in Lizzy's place; b) my romance does contain explicit sex, which is why i t will not appear here; c) there is a part of us that want to enter their story in a permanant way, because as CF would say "it got under our skin"; for better or worse, we've been changed by it and this BB. Amy's dealt with all this longer and more creatively than any of us (with the archival exception of HC who's really been hooked awhile.) :-) While I cannot gratify a groupie concept, I think Lizzy & Darcy will titillate each other and many reade rs (after all, Darcy has done extensive reading of continental fiction & nonfiction so he's quite knowedgeable, and Lizzy was ever an independent person...) Of course, one hopes you will not skip over the lakes' descriptive passages but read with he patience of a judge every line I penned... ;-) Your humble servant, Wendy (Wendysum@aol.com)

Oh. what a tease.

P.S. Afterthought: Knowing that some readers prefer even more old-fashioned romance, I can create a different sex-hinted-at-only honeymoon part for those who'd prefer that version.

Oh, Wendy, now you have really piques my curiosity; please sign me up for the snogging, daggy version (ie; not the old-fashioned one). Here is my e-mail address; mari.topitzes@mfa.com. In addition, let me add that in such cases as this, it is, I believe, the established mode to express a sense of obligation for the efforts expended; thank you in advance for all of your efforts on our behalf, for as someone else posted, we DO know to whom we are indebted.

Or is that ''addicted'' ? :)

Oh, Wendy, now you have really piques my curiosity; please sign me up for the snogging, daggy version (ie; not the old-fashioned one). Here is my e-mail address; mari.topitzes@mfa.com. In addition, let me add that in such cases as this, it is, I believe, the established mode to express a sense of obligation for the efforts expended; thank you in advance for all of your efforts on our behalf, for as someone else posted, we DO know to whom we are indebted.

Sign me up too, Wendy. becka@interlog.com

Please add me to the list, Wendy....I'm dying to see what happened at the end of that carriage ride! Thanks! XBYK14A@Prodigy.com

Wendy, notice the upsurge in book orders?

Wendy, did you receive my e-mail? I hope so because I just can't wait for my copy. I too would like the daggy version.

I can hear the ghost of Austen now- "I am shocked and grieved" at what is happening to my neoclassically self-controlled novel!" ;-)

Cecily: I can hear the ghost of Austen now- "I am shocked and grieved" at what is happening to my neoclassically self-controlled novel!" ;-) Get over it, Jane!

Cheryl: You mean that Darcy and Lizzy's 200-year wait for their wedding night should be over? Well, perhaps that has been a trifle frustrating to our daggy Mr. Darcy, ever at the ready, and our curvaceous Miss Lizzy, whose banter may have become edgier over the decades... All right, go for it, Wendy!

Wow, that long? Are they vampires?

Merely characters from 1790s stuck in a 1995 miniseries ending in a post-marriage service carriage ride...

I hate to ask but What 1995 miniseries? (Reference to What).Otherwise I have to redisplay. How I hate redisplay.