i opened this topic for mr chips to discuss his passion for literature!

Wolfie, have you noticed Amy and me talking of books we love and share a common interest in...I cannot wait to tell her to come here. *Hugs* for opening this topic. I am sure it will be very busy!!!

We'll be delighted to accommodate him here and to carry on our Arthurian discussions in screwed...that seems appropriate, somehow...sadly! Sorry I misinterpreted it. (looking for the comment under the entered date...)

If I can create a topic in Books I shall do a n Arthurian one

ok, i'm gonna cut and paste some of our book conversations from babes: john said: I would like an otherwise unoccupied woman to discuss literature with me, but I'm afraid Austen and the Brontes don't do it for me. My women colleagues are all married and/or unattractive (and all are more concerned about comp than lit--understandable for high school teachers). wolfie responded: i love literature, john, but am not an academic scholar in it. my fave classic authors of the moment are charles dickens and mark twain. both of them crack me up to no end! to which marcia responded: John, I am fondest of Tolstoy and the Eueopean writers of the 19th century - with the large EXCEPTION of Proust. I could not get through Remembrances of Things Past...or whatever it was when he was pining for his mother and the little cookies she fed him...tres weird. Which lit did you have in mind? then john said: You already know my poetic taste. I'm not a lit scholar either...Twain is still my favorite American author. And I can get bashed as a sexist for this, but I love the visceral, stripped-down minimalist style of Hemingway. I don't know if he was misogynist, although I've kept hearing he was. Certainly, I was sympathetic to Brett (more than Hemingway was) in The Sun Also Rises. I'm surprised that I like Henry James, but I do. I know Austen was a major influence on him. Dickens ranks up there on my list of English novelists. So does George Eliot. I have mixed emotions about Joyce (I know he was Irish). I couldn't make it through Ulysses, but was moved to tears by The Dead. I like the shorter, later Tolstoy things with redemption as theme, such as Master and Man and The Death of Ivan Ilytch. I've read War and Peace and Anna Karennina, though. I believe there's good reason the former has become a metaphor for overlong, and the latter is just too damn tragic. I knew she was doomed from the second she saw Vronsky. I love some of Dostoevsky, especially The Brothers Karamazov. I know the father is a tragic figure, but I laugh when I read his misadventures. That got me into troubl in a Russian Lit in translation seminar with my favorite lit professor (now deceased). I still think he's funny, intentional or not. Crime and Punishment gave me war flashback nightmares, so the violence in there was certainly effective. I would not have wanted Raskalnikov as a shipmate. wolfie: as to literature: there is a book topic and we could move this discussion there. but, i enjoyed wuthering heights, great expectations, the diary of adam and eve, the awakening-hated the ending (chopin), and several others. my dad loaned ulysses and the iliad but couldn't get through either one. oh, and the hobbit, and a few others by twain were really good. don't know why he and dickens crack me up. love twain for the way he writes like folks talk and the use of ethnic slander does not offend me ecause understand why it was used (even if, during those times, it was also considered taboo). why they wanted to ban the book is beyond me (huckleberry finn). a friend (nick) emailed some selections by twain of which i've read and still have around somewhere, but don't remember the titles. oh, and i have a huge book with the collections of edgar allen poe, because he cracks me up even though the stuff he writes is scary. (i did have a pit and pendulum dream at one point in my adult life). and am working on jane eyre, but because of my (many) other interests, it's sitting on the shelf (not literally, however, it's still in the paper sacks we put all the books in to facilitate the installation of new carpet)....to be continued! marcia: Wolf, it is not a good day if I don't have three or so books going at once! I know the feeling! amy: I wish I had time to read what I want! Right now, I'm trudging through Benita Eisler's biography of Byron in an attempt to learn something useful to my thesis, but I'd really like to cut loose and read a historical novel like I did over the summer! marcia: My absolute favorite kinds of books are historical novels. I can get lost for days and weeks in them...! amy: Really? What authors do you read? I got on an Elizabeth Chadwick kick over the summer, because I find the Middle Ages so interesting. I also like reading about Eleanor of Aquitaine (Ellen Jones' "Beloved Enemy" is quite good,) and I devour anything about King Arthur. marcia: I usually perfer Thomas Costain type books and have replaced Mitchener and Tolkien as favs for Mary Stewart's Merlin Trilogy plus the ones which followed...plus I got lost for a while in Aruthuriana with The Mists of Avalon and NOrma Lorre Goodrich's books on the central characters - all excellent and good reads. I also do a lot of archaeological reading - both journals and dig texts. If the Library of Alexandria did not go to heaven when it died, I don't want to go, either (says here now that I m not lose to going!) amy: All of my friends have copies of "The Mists of Avalon" with the covers taped on because they've fallen off from being read so much! marcia: I guess I fit right in with all of your friends because mine looks like that, as well.

I created the Arthurian site - we can talk both places when other lit comes up here. Great idea, wolf! I'm gonna do that from Screwed 163 for Books 23. Thanks!

sorry it was soooo long, but thought it'd be easier than going back and forth!

Mine is just as long. (in fact I am going to do that with the rock collecting if I cannot figure how to link them all by myself...!)

Did anyone watch "Anna Karenina" last night on TNT? I adore that version (with Sophie Marceau, who is absolutely beautiful,) and although I own a copy of it, I only treat myself to watching it every once in a while. All of the period music, the beautiful costumes, when people write they really write Russian, the atmosphere...everything is perfect! I liked that version of the movie better than I liked the book!

No...did not know it was on and I was at Volleyball getting my face smashed by an errant serve...Do you prefer this version to Vivien Leigh's ???

I've never seen the one with Vivien Leigh, but I don't think I could imagine her as Anna. There's simply nothing Russian about her, and I'll never be able to get the image of her as Scarlett out of my mind. (I tried to watch "Streetcar," but I kept giggling because she is Scarlett and always will be.)

She was lovely...! Of course before I became Firth's I was Olivier's...perhaps that explains the problem.

You not only have very good taste in books, Marcia, but also in Englishmen!

Ah, Yes... Thank you for agreeing. You must also share some of the credit for same, at the very least! (Took P&P with me - the book - to last night's Volleyball game and read the chance meeting (wet shirt) st Pemberley scene over and over. Odd the effect it has on me...*sigh* *squish*

John has told me he has his Master's Class this evening and other prior engagements. It just might be a while before he gets back here!

I like so many so-called classic authors, I wouldn't know where to start. Perhaps we should focus on one work and discuss it?

Since John is indisposed this evening, and I have opened my Arthurian topic, Autumn, suggest a book or an author to discuss. We need direction and impetus in this topic! Please!

OK, here are some suggestions: Wharton Fitzgerald Twain Steinbeck All Americans, but I'm open to something else. Anyone have a preference?

Wow! Great choices...lets see what the others think...meanwhile if your are King Arthurly inclined, pop over to 41 for that discussion.

Sorry, I'm King Arthur-impaired. :-)

Must be from Camelot poisoning...! We all suffer from that, I am afraid!

From John (including a contribution of his own): From the Washington Post Invitational contest, which calls them Merge-Matic Books. Readers were asked to combine the works of two authors, and to provide a suitable blurb: Second Runner-Up: "Machiavelli's The Little Prince" - Antoine de Saint-Exupery's classic children's tale as presented by Machiavelli. The whimsy of human nature is embodied in many delightful and intriguing characters, all of whom are executed. (Erik Anderson, Tempe, Ariz.) First Runner-Up: "Green Eggs and Hamlet" - Would you kill him in his bed? Thrust a dagger through his head? I would not, could not, kill the King. I could not do that evil thing. I would not wed this girl, you see. Now get her to a nunnery. (Robin Parry, Arlington VA) And the Winner of the Dancing Critter: "Fahrenheit 451 of the Vanities" - An '80s yuppie is denied books. He does not object, or even notice. (Mike Long, Burke) extras: "The Maltese Faulkner" - Is the black bird a tortured symbol of Sam's struggles with race and family? Does it signify his decay of soul along with the soul of the Old South? Is it merely a crow, mocking his attempts to understand? Or is it worth a cool mil? (Thad Humphries, Warrenton) "Lorna Dune" - An English farmer, Paul Atreides, falls for the daughter of a notorious rival clan, the Harkonnens, and pursues a career as a giant worm jockey in order to impress her. "The Invisible Man of La Mancha"- Don Quixote discovers a mysterious elixir which renders him invisible. He proceeds to go on a mad rampage of corruption and terror, attacking innocent people in the streets and all the while singing "To fight the Invisible Man!" until he is finally stopped by a windmill. "Planet of the Grapes of Wrath" - Astronaut lands on mysterious planet, only to discover that it is his very own home planet of Earth, which has been taken over by the Joads, a race of dirt-poor corn farmers who miraculously developed rudimentary technology and evolved the ability to speak after exposure to nuclear radiation. "Paradise Lost in Space" - Satan, Moloch, and Belial are sentenced to spend eternity in a flying saucer with a goofy robot, an evil scientist, and 2 annoying children. "Gone With the Shining" - Bed and breakfast owners discover that the Southern Antebellum mansion they own is haunted by the Ghost of Scarlett O'Nicholson. (Lynn Abbey) "The Sun Also Rises Over the Cuckoo's Nest" - A petty criminal seeking to evade jail enters the funny farm, where he and fellow inmates commandeer a bus and escape, panhandle enough money to forge passports and go to Spain. McMurphy and the Chief run with the bulls in Pamplona, and McMurphy sustains permanent injury to his manhood. Undaunted, he hooks up Billy Bibbit, who has learned to stutter in Spanish, with a sexually liberated nurse, who runs off with an abusive bullfighter. McMurphy shares Sangria with the Chief, who surprisingly says his first words in 20 years, "Muchos gracias! Uno mas, por favor!" (John Burnett)

Arrrrrgh, if I EVER have to hear another dissing of Niccolo Macchiavelli around here! John, tell that contributor to wash his mouth, stop thinking they was oh-so-smart for a second, pick up Nick's The Prince, read, shut up and learn. Honestly, I read it when I was a teen, and found his ideas and consequent approach very curious. It is fascinating to read and compare his ideas to other classic philosophies and political ideas, new and old. The main thing is: what was his aim? What was his goal? What are his thoughts good for? What did he intend? Same with Konfuzius, who doesn't get much credit for his strictness and his extremely conservative approach from many. But they do not look at his times, and his motivation. What were the problems he (and later, Macchiavelli) were addressing? These ideas have to be viewed in the mirror of their times, and what of it appeals or contradicts OUR emotions and ideas. And I say, Macchiavelli obviously motivated by very special feelings. Things I can strongly relate to. And he was willing to pay an - for his time - outrageous price for his ideas. Give him respect.

..Passing the message on to John... You and I never did have our discussion of Machiavelli, did we?! (making notes as I type...)

Coming up, I guess.

...*sigh*...when I get over the megalithic discussion, in Geomagnetism, and ley lines. Are there any such things in your neck of the woods? Surely, there must be! BTW, archaeology is doing well in Geo, as well =)

We got megaliths, but not as ensembles, more as singular rocks.

Standing stones. Yes! Plenty of them and highly significant to those who feel the vibes. Deep in the woods. Near streams. On ancient high trackways. Every one of them is special, indeed! They have recently found more of the avenue stones from Avebury henge monument... More in Geo *smile*

Guess if we are gonna talk megaliths here we should mention Thomas Hardy and his evocative novels...

Jude the Obscure, for one....

Tess of the d'Ubervilles for another... Any of his Wessex novels, actually.

Without comment (Arrrrrrrrgh!) I post this item: Harry Potter's wizardry banned from British school LONDON, March 29 (Reuters) - Harry Potter, the fictional young wizard who has captured children's imaginations all over the world, has been banished from one English school because his magical powers go against the teachings of the Bible. The head teacher of St Mary's Island Church of England school in Chatham, Kent says the tales of wizardly adventures do not conform with her school's ``church ethos.'' ``The Bible is very clear and consistent in its teachings that wizards, devils and demons exist and are very real, powerful and dangerous and God's people are told to have nothing to do with them,'' Carol Rookwood told the BBC on Wednesday. ``We are a Church of England aided primary school which means the church ethos is very important to what we do,'' she said. The Harry Potter adventure books, written by British author JK Rowling, have already sold more than 18 million copies in the United States alone. The fourth book in the series, in which Harry begins taking an interest in girls and confronts death for the first time, is due out on July 8, but early orders have already taken it to the top of Internet bookseller Amazon's Hot 100 bestsellers' list. The British head teacher said she had the full support of parents of children at her school. She added that the ban applied to other books, videos and television programs that portray witches and wizards as harmless and fun chracters.

Censorship ride, departing now for UK - next stop: Grimm's Fairy Tales!

Really! I cannot believe it! Got get'um, Alexander. I'm right beside you on this!

What didja expect after what they did to "Tom Sawyer"... Has anyone checked the Bible for PG passages? There are plenty of them in there!

But that's the way it's meant to be! See, the idea is - if the US moral minority leaders around Falwell and their international minions manage to keep the monopoly on x-rated stuff and hard core violence, everybody goes back to church and creates revenue. Good for them. That's the plot.

Oh, not like the Vatican Library which keeps it all for their own perusal and no one else's? The museum is like that, too.

Oh no, go to some nice catholic places - full of gore and martyrs! That's the idea - give the folk what they want, and monopolize the supply side! And THEN they have the gall to claim they were capitalists! Not competition there, they want.

And the really crass gear in vatican - well, that's the stuff that's really to XXX for the public. Good thing somebody does their job!

Nothing like graphically painted plaster statues to make me glad I am an Episcopalian who was told we believe in a "Risen Christ." Keem'um scared and told them you have the only way to avoid this end - then keep'um in the dark about when enough is enough...Indeed! (Now, I have offended a large portion of the Spring and the lurking world!)

Are you sure they are not looking at it themselves? Where does the line get drawn between Art and Social commentary and the Legislation and enforcement of Morality-as-they-see-it?! (Is that tongue of yours planted firmly in your cheek, Alexander, Dear?!) Um...where did they get all of this crass gear for their collection?

From Falwell - shipping surplus over for safekeeping. It's a scientific fact. A tongue? W H E R E ?

Falwell put teletubbies in the Vatican Vaults? No...I gather you are serious about this. Where did HE get it? Can't imagine how much we have in video copies and books not to mention the Internet. I cannot even guess what he decided was too crass and offensive...! When something is said "tongue in cheek" in America, it means it was meant in jest as in "pulling your leg" ...

say.... ;=} One leg actually IS much longer than the other!

(...my momma taught me not to ask about things like this when an enticing statement is made like that one...but I am so curious I can hardly stand it...)

(It's from all those years as general dogsbody in the merchant navy, dear - the stowers were always drunk, and so the ship always tilted to starboard, which made all of us walk in a peculiar way. Worked great on sea, looked odd in the dance halls, though...)

(Gosh, some of the stories I really should write down, so I don't forget them!)

(please do - but don't forget to let us see them!!!)

Oh Yes, Alexander! You are a most gifted story teller. Please share. I though only the cows in Switzerland and West Virginia had leg orientations like that. Hmmm... The things I learn here...*grin*

*grin, too*