OK, I've now started my reread but I have to say I wasn't in the least bit disapponted by this book. Not even the tone. It was right IMO. I was fairly shocked by the ordinary description of what finally happened when Ranger came to collect. But that only reinforced my belief that the real love and passion exist only between Joe and Stephanie. I think there are abundant clues as to what Stephanie and Ranger are all about. I believe she calls it a "moth to a flame." That means self-destructive and she knows it. In this book, I think Janet has pulled no punches and left nothing up in the air about where Stephanie stands and what these relationships are all about. Am I disappointed that Stephanie did finally sleep with Ranger? Yes, only because of what I fear would be Joe's reaction. However, this would give Janet the opportunity to allow Joe to change a bit (although, in my mind, he's pretty near perfecto!). And about the ending, I definitely believe Joe initiated it, but could not do it himself because of what he is. Both conspired and both will be equally culpable if it ever comes out.

Admin note: When you respond, you can cut and paste the relevant portion of a person's post into the text box. On another conference, we've developed a formating convention where you put the person's name in parentheses before their message, put the whole thing in italics, and then write your response below it. That way you can respond to any number of people's postings within the same response without it getting confusing or losing the source. It would look like this: Sample (Karen) Am I disappointed that Stephanie did finally sleep with Ranger? No, she finally got it out of her system. The mystery is gone--at least for that element of Ranger's life--and she can work on her other problems, like finding a new insurance company. ;-D You do italics or bold by using basic HTML codes that can be found here: http://austen.com/tutorial/index.html It's very easy.

I loved this book. I never liked Joe that much, mainly because he never seemed to like Steph that much. I liked him SO much better in this book, and liked Ranger less, who seemed like a prick from time to time. I was disappointed in the lack of detail of the "ruination", but oh, well. My take is that Ranger chose to murder Abruzzi rather than have Joe involved officially because that way it would be final, and they wouldn't have to count on the system, which doesn't always work. I think Joe knew about it, but I think that Ranger chose this way, and chose the responsibility and culpability that goes with it. It's his and his alone, his choice. IMO This is the first time I've felt that it would be OK if Joe and Steph end up together. I've had issues in my own life with SOs trying to change me, so I've been extra sensitive to that in this series. But maybe when Steph chose her job over Morelli ln the last book it made him do some thinking about love without conditions attached. Certainly his attitude is different in this book. It's always felt to me that as much as they seem to love each other, it's always had to be on Joe's terms, and I never liked that. Again, my opinion...not worth much, but it's mine, dammit! lol

Lula!! Love the name you're using. Fond of orange spandex skirts six sizes too small for you? ;-D (Lula) My take is that Ranger chose to murder Abruzzi rather than have Joe involved officially because that way it would be final, and they wouldn't have to count on the system, which doesn't always work. I think Joe knew about it, but I think that Ranger chose this way, and chose the responsibility and culpability that goes with it. It's his and his alone, his choice. IMO As I recall, Joe wanted to talk privately with Ranger, so I took that as the initial approach to "solve" the problem. Both guys had warned Steph not to have anything to do with Abruzzi and both knew he was one bad, sick psycho. Taking him out was the only, viable solution, and Joe would know that Ranger would be able to handle it best. But this is a "conspiracy" and the law would hang the blame on both them equally. If someone half decent chose to investigate the (ahem) murder, it wouldn't take a genius to find two guys with a motive: to keep Steph alive. (Lula) Certainly his attitude is different in this book. I viewed it more as he was giving her a bit of space. Steph ultimately had a panic attack in 7, when all the pressure (exerted mainly by herself and her family) hit. She now has to put her dreams and aspirations in perspective against reality. Joe's done the wild thing already. It's out of his system. I think he sees that. But I don't believe for one minute he's looking for a traditional Burg housewife. Makes no sense to me. He was attracted to Steph because she's unconventional and that has to remain.

Still confused by this board. Just want to see the Hard Eight section. Definitely this book was so much better than seven which was a huge disappointment. After ranger collected, he seemed to back off super fast. I'm guessing tongue like a lizard makes a comeback next book. Besides I like Morelli better - though I wouldn't pass on Ranger.

Big Welcome Graceful! (Graceful) Still confused by this board. Probably because you've never seen anything like it. But it's very easy to use, once you get the hang of it. Just want to see the Hard Eight section. You're in it. BTW, once you've gone into a topic and read the messages, the next time you come back, you won't see those messages again. Some people like to get the context of what has been discussed by going back and bringing some of the messages back up on the screen. This can be done several easy ways. (1) Below the messages is a Redisplay Box. You can put in a number (representing a specific message #) or the number you want to back up (type in -5 or however many you want to go back). (2) Use (bookmark) this url for the Hard Eight topic, which will show you all posts for the past 7 days: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/books/40/since/-7 (Graceful) Definitely this book was so much better than seven which was a huge disappointment. I have a feeling that one's assessment of the two books has to do with which male character one prefers. All through 6, I was cringing with what was happening, dreading what Janet was laying out: the breakup. However, with my sympathies clearly on the Morelli side, everything seemed very reasonable, logical, plausible and positive in 7. How else are you going to explain why no one (Connie, Lula, or Vinnie) noticed Steph had slept with Ranger? It was not a life-altering experience (redux) as had been the case with Morelli. ;-D

So many thoughts bouncing around in my head re: Hard8 that i hardly know where to start! :-) First, i cant believe Steph actually slept with Ranger. I knew it was coming -eventually, but i thought JE would draw it out for a few more books. Remember Buick interuptus? took FOREVER for Joe to finally get Steph to actually sleep with him. (Karen)I was fairly shocked by the ordinary description of what finally happened when Ranger came to collect. But that only reinforced my belief that the real love and passion exist only between Joe and Stephanie. i couldnt agree more. Clearly Joe is Steph's true love. :-) Remember when she finally slept w/ Joe -afterwards EVERYONE (even Vinny) could tell she'd just got some. ;-D She kept insisting "i was do!" (Karen)How else are you going to explain why no one (Connie, Lula, or Vinnie) noticed Steph had slept with Ranger? It was not a life-altering experience (redux) as had been the case with Morelli. ;-D Exactly! Re: the Abruzzi murder, it reminded me of an eariler book (cant remember which one off the top of my head -and am at work, so cant go check) when Steph observes that Ranger and Joe are two Alpha Males working together for a common goal ... or something along those lines. Will check for the exact quote tonight. *fingers crossed* that book nine brings Joe and Steph back together - meanwhile am Happy Happy Happy that we're getting a Stephine Plum novella this Christmas -so i wont have to wait until next summer for my next SP fix!

OH! Meant to say 'Thanks Karen!' for the Evanovich Topics! *Hug* You are the Best Girl! :-D and Welcome Lula and Graceful -hope you stick around and post often!

(Esbee) I knew it was coming -eventually, but i thought JE would draw it out for a few more books. But this was the place: a time-out as she called it (not quite a breakup in her mind). I still do have a problem with it, as I can't imagine Joe letting this slide. But on the positive side, no one knows or has guessed, so there's always a posibility it won't get out. when Steph observes that Ranger and Joe are two Alpha Males working together for a common goal ... I remember the Alpha Male comment too. Now where was it??? Was it when she was wrestling that guy to the ground, having skipped out on that wedding, and the two of them are watching her...or when she winds up the Kenny Mancuso one, when she's tackled him to the ground and the two of them are watching her again. They seem to do that a lot. In Hard Eight, I think you see both Joe and Ranger highly concerned for her well-being, as that Abruzzi guy is nuts. Both are trying in their own way to resolve the situation, initially by finding Evelyn and Annie. But when that isn't going to do it, both know Abruzzi has to be taken out. Neither would be able to keep Steph safe with him free and loose. They both respect each other and this shows they trust each other implicitly.

(Karen)But this was the place: a time-out as she called it (not quite a breakup in her mind). As i was reading i kept hearing in the back of my mind "But we were on a Break!" -ala Ross & Rachel she's tackled him to the ground and the two of them are watching her again. They seem to do that a lot. LOL! So True! she's forever rolling around on the ground with some FTA and then looking up to see Joe, Ranger and an assortment of cops watching with great amusement. In Hard Eight, I think you see both Joe and Ranger highly concerned for her well-being... They both respect each other and this shows they trust each other implicitly. you definately get the idea that these guys like each other -despite the fact that they almost really dont want to. Mary Alice 'the horse girl' cracks me up! In 7 Up i wasnt that excited about introducing Valerie into the plot, i think i liked her better 'off stage'. But now i'm liking the visual that's provided by her kids -you get a clear view of what Steph and Valerie were like as kids -substiutuing the "i'm a horse" and pawing with "i can fly" and jumping off the garage. :-) Also, her mom's continual "why can't you be more like your sister" complaint is getting funnier & funnier. -i mean, does she Really Want Steph to move back in -sans a husband but with two kids? LOL! They must have the most frequently used bathroom in the burg! :-)

Argh!!! i swear i double checked the tags!!

(Esbee) As i was reading i kept hearing in the back of my mind "But we were on a Break!" -ala Ross & Rachel *hee hee* You know, there's something else in the book that is reminiscent of maybe a movie I've seen. It's been driving me crazy. I need to look through the book again. Perhaps, I've marked it. But will definitely post it to see if anyone else recognizes the situation from another place. In 7 Up i wasnt that excited about introducing Valerie into the plot It was amusing. But I like the new characters that Janet has brought in for 8. Some may not be pleased that Grandma has taken a backseat. But I'm kind of glad. After reading all of Janet's romance novels, where she had a recurring character that has ultimately become Grandma, you get tired of her stuff. Plus it got repetitious. It did bother me that Maggie (the ex-mud wrestler) was introduced into this book, but didn't factor into it all. What was that about? It certainly wasn't necessary. You begin to wonder if some portion was cut out because there was no reason to have her move in next door to Vinnie. I told the other group that my favorite line in the book was "Those geese are animals." But my second fav has to be, after Steph has related how her mother has run down the rabbit, Joe's reply: "I'm fucking speechless."

(Karen)I like the new characters that Janet has brought in for 8 Like the Homicidal Bunny? ;-D i'd noticed the developement of Grandma Mazur in previous (pre-Plum) books as well... but have to admit, she's one of my favorites. I mean, when she shot the turkey in the gumpy right on the dining room table... and then zapped her son-in-law with Stephine's stun gun. *snort* maybe its just that my gran is a pretencious snob, but i think she's a hoot :-D Like your favorite lines as well.... but think my fav is when her mom runs over the rabbit and she and Steph decide, "Well -it WAS a rabbit" one of my favorite scenes is when Albert gets stuck in the dryer, and Steph has to run him through the gentle cycle for five minutes to get him out. LOL! i found Maggie's breif appearence bewildering as well. Maybe she's going to play a main part in the next book. Visions of Sugar Plums is only going to be a novella, so JE may have been doing some 'set up' prep work in this book for that book's plot. Who Knows... Meanwhile, one of JE's previous romances is being rewritten and published this fall (think it's a Sept. release) not 100% sure, but seem to remember that it's called Full House.

I've looked at used book stores and thrift stores for a Steffie Hall book, just to see what it is like, but have had no luck. So I'm glad one of her old books is being reissued, though I'm not much of a romance reader. I've seen them on ebay, but haven't bid on any. I'm really glad about Sugar Plums, too! Oh, boy! Yes, I agree that Joe loves about Steph the same thing that Ranger and everyone else loves about her, and that is that she is an original. But up until HE, he also appeared to hate that about her, too...it drove him crazy. But in this book, he seems more accepting of her. I also liked your comment about nobody being able to tell that she had been to bed with Ranger, and everyone immediately knew when she had been with Joe. I had not thought about that, until you mentioned it. My name actually IS Lula! But I pass on the spandex, at my age and physical condition! lol!

(Esbee) Like the Homicidal Bunny? ;-D That's not what I meant, but the bunny was good! ;-D In HE, Kloughn was a variation on a theme. He's a less spacey version of Mooner, but equally bizarre and needy. I like how she's brought in someone new. I don't think I could've stood the repetitiousness of the same cast of characters. Always need new blood to make it interesting. Which is why I think the old faithful crew (Grandma, Mary Lou, previous sidekicks) all took a backseat. i'd noticed the developement of Grandma Mazur in previous (pre-Plum) books as well... So you've read her romances too! I got really tired of Elsie reappearing in all those stories. Maybe she's [Maggie's] going to play a main part in the next book. You would think so. Why else have her move in next door to Vinnie. Aha!! Steph's new (nondangerous) job. She goes to work for Maggie, with a little mud wrestling on the side. ;-D (Lula) But up until HE, he also appeared to hate that about her, too...it drove him crazy. But in this book, he seems more accepting of her. [I'm going to assume that the "he" you wrote refers to Joe.] Another way to view Joe's relationship with Steph in this book is he's keeping himself at arm's length. It's not that he's accepting, but his current standing as "ex-fiancee-sort of" doesn't give him the right to say or do anything. She's a free agent. Steph's being a bounty hunter has bothered him ever since he realized he had feelings for her. When it became even more serious--to the point where he was talking marriage, you could see the change in his attitude toward her job. It was no longer an amusement to him because she was so inept, but he feared for her safety and it preyed on him. The guy was chugging Maalox. It bothered him big time. Now, he has to sit back and wait for her. At the end of HE, Steph herself is pretty scared, more scared than she's ever been before. That could lead to certain changes. I also liked your comment about nobody being able to tell that she had been to bed with Ranger Having reread the book, it's not quite accurate. Steph goes over to her parents home the next morning and Grandma notices she looks happy. But no one has guessed it was caused by Ranger. How about we talk about the romances on 39??? That's one of the great things about this site, there's some built in organization (topics). So, Lula, just click on the "previous topic" button at the bottom and you'll be there. I'll transfer our comments.

I was thinking about the ending, and more and more it seems to resemble a Godfather I end, with Joe putting out a hit on Abruzzi and his having an alibi being with both Steph and Valerie. Joe would be the logical suspect since he is/was Steph's fiancee. But this way, he's appears to be in the clear.

Havent seen the Godfather(s) so cant really comment on any resemblance, but do think Joe would be suspect. Its a good thing that Ranger is good at killing the bad guys. :-) Of course, with Joe alibied, it wouldnt take a mental giant to figure out who killed Abruzzi. The cops will probably treat it the way they do Ranger's carrying concealed. -it's an open secret and everybody will be happy they dont have to worry about Abruzzi any more.

Just noticed something while listening to Hard Eight on tape during commute from hell this morning. when Grandma Mazur gets handed the pictures of Stephine sleeping she tells Steph that the Rabbit TOLD her to give them to her. a few scenes later, when Grandma and Steph are stopped on their way back from the bakery by the Rabbit and Bill Clinton, nobody can understand what the Rabbit is saying. Not even Clinton. He asks him, "havent you ever tried to talk in that head before?" Seems like an oops to me. Wonder why Janet or her editor didnt catch that-

The cops will probably treat it the way they do Ranger's carrying concealed. -it's an open secret and everybody will be happy they dont have to worry about Abruzzi any more. Somehow the "whodunnit" is going to factor into the next book. It's too meaningful a development in the triangular relationship. From Steph's standpoint, you have men who are willing to kill and/or put their careers on the line to protect her. And then you have the two men. They have a lot at stake as well. It really is horrendous that we have to wait until next summer to see where this is all going. Seems like an oops to me. Wonder why Janet or her editor didnt catch that There are a lot of 'ooops' in the series. Maybe when I reread I'll make a list of errors, but one always stuck out (can't remember which book right now) about Valerie. In one book, Steph talks about either going to stay with Valerie or having Valerie do something, as if she lived in town. And Joe's scar seems to move from the right to left eyebrow at will sometimes. ;-)

LOL -never noticed the bit about Joe's migrating scar. (figures YOU'D pick up on that. Joe drooler that you are) ;-P i noticed that Valerie changed locations drastically as well -but thought she must have just moved. i dont think we're ever told how long she lived in Calif. -presumablely just long enough to bleach her hair blond, get a Meg Ryan hair cut and loose her husband to the babysitter. Her man hunt in Hard8 is a riot. Gah! imagine being so desperate that you'd date Kloughn. *shudder*

Another ooops In Four to Score, Steph tells Joe, when she wants to drive the Ducati that she got a bike license when she was married to Dickie and has kept it current. In Seven Up, when Vinnie gives her the Harley after her CR-V gets totaled, she tells him that she got her license a couple of years back when she was dating a guy who had a cycle shop.

WOW! i didnt even catch that! Mmmmmm..... getting all kinds of warm fuzzy feelings thinking about Joe on a Ducati.... ;-d

It's an interesting bike. Not one you see around much...at least here!