careful Alexander... that all encompassing, over generalized statement is bound to offend... or at least get the obvious rebuttle which would include it is not'so well accepted' by everyone... All Germans don't eat bratwurst and wear Liederhosen... All Americans don't eat apple pie and pack automatic weapons...

or currently engage in ethnic cleansings... or have all of the world's sadomasochists as citizens...

we just have a different view on displaying those things on the news...other countries just censor their media differently, is all...

Here is my analysis of the culture of violence... "Thinking About Violence In Our Schools" http://www.musenet.org/orenda/violence.html

Interesting 5 stage model leading to the conclusion that "we can discontinue the mindless practice of killing ourselves off". Welcome to Spring, Barry!

it's nice to have new voices in the fray...

Thank you. I've spent 30 years of my professional life doing Model-Based Reasoning, building system models, using them, and teaching them. Girard's Model knocks my sox off. I rank it up there with Copernicus.

How does Girard's model relate to USA gun violence and why do you give it such high praise?

Girard's model relates to all violence, regardless of the weaponry. I give Girard's model high praise because he has done something comparable to Copernicus. Before Copernicus, the motion of the heavenly bodies was a puzzling mystery. Copernicus worked out a model in which the planets moved in elliptical orbits about the sun. His model dramatically cleaned up the mess left by Ptolemy who had put the earth at the center, leading to complicated retrograde motions that defied comprehension. Then Newton came along with his inverse-square law of gravity and showed that the elliptical orbits of the planets were entirely explained by mathematics so simple, even a high schooler can understand it. Girard's model is sufficiently general and abstract that it not only explains violence, it even explains drama. I have never encountered a system model quite so stunning as this one. I can actually run this model and obtain insightful answers. I can even see how to run the model backwards to derive the peacemaking strategies of the founders of the great religions.

The US Violence Culture begins with the foundation assumption of our culture -- that it is possible and practical to regulate society via rules and sanctions. Nearly every child learns that parents make the rules, and the penalty for breaking them is some form of authorized, sanctioned, and sacred infliction of pain in the tochus. Society uses this basic model at all levels, right up to NATO. By mutual consent, we all agree that the optimal way to regulate society is to administer authorized, sanctioned, and sacred violence to enforce the rules, which the ruling power gets to make up as he goes along. Well, most of us agree. I happen to think it's the most idiotic idea I ever heard of. I mean, can you imagine NASA asking me to design a guidance control system for a Mars shot. "Yah sure," I say. "Here's my plan. We'll let the rocket do whatever it likes until it gets too far off course. Then we'll damage the rocket. That will teach it." Um. I didn't get the job. NASA decided to hire somebody who knew a little more about systems theory. Next I joined the Coast Guard. They were concerned that some of the waves out there on the ocean were just a little too big for comfort. "No problem," I say. "Here's my plan. We'll pass a law saying that no wave shall be any higher than 5 feet. We'll send out patrols. Any wave over 5 feet, we'll take a big paddle and *WHOMP* it to flatten it out. That should do the trick." The Admiral asked me if I'd ever taken a course in Physics. "Physics?" I asked. "What's Physics?" He raised his eyebrows. I didn't get the job. I don't get it. What's wrong with my brilliant thinking?

That "the US Violence Culture begins with the foundation assumption of our culture" is probably correct - always assuming there were any such thing as a distinct US culture of violence -, but what you seem to consider the foundation is perhaps already a manifestation, a cultural agreement? Not that I know what I'm talking about. Alexander Resident ***That Ain't A Chip On My Shoulder, That's Not Knowing Proper Spelling***, The Spring

It predates the US culture, of course. I'm not sure how far you have to go back in human history to find the origin of the idea that society should be regulated by rules enforced by sanctions. I forget the details of the Code of Hammurabi, but I note that when Moses jotted down the Ten Commandments, he didn't specify any sentencing guidelines calling for society to deliberately damage anyone who slipped.

banishment is probably the earliest...

and I don't just mean excommunication, either

Isolation is still used (a form of banishment which seems less humane, somehow)

Scapegoating goes back to the Babylonian times. It seems the origin may be lost in the sands of time. But we still employ it routinely today.

Scapegoating originally was meant as a sacrifice and the atonement for a wrong done. It was then expunged from "the record" and mandated forgotten. We still use scapegoats but we refuse to allow anyone to forget, no matter the atonement.

When the scapegoat was a goat (as in Exodus), it might have worked according to plan. But today we use humans as scapegoats, who then return to the community with an "Azazel Attitude" (except for the tiny few among us who manage to achieve a Buddha Nature). Professor James Gilligan at Harvard, and the husband and wife team of Scheff and Retzinger at the University of California have studied the effects of shaming and blaming and linked them to downstream violence. The evidence is that our culture is poisoning itself with this horrific practice.

Why do we find this destructive behavior so prevalent and acceptable if it will surely poison the very culture who continues to practice it?

my guess would be nihilism and/or egocentrism...

I vote for the latter.

It's prevalent because it's mimetic and firmly embedded in the culture. It's accepted for reasons that elude me. My theory is that people are born into a cultural model, accept it without question, and mindlessly adopt the culture's practices. The evidence for this is the absence from our language of terms and concepts that would represent a more enlightened point of view. In the Native American culture, the missing meme goes by the name, Orenda. In biblical times, the missing meme went by the name Urim and Thummim. I find it curious that in English bibles, those words are not translated. I translate Orenda as Tribal Soul on the Right Path, or Community Soul on a Mindful Path. I translate Urim and Thummim as Mindfulness and Empathy, or Insight and Caring, or Conscientious Attention and Awareness. These are rare traits in our culture, and almost no one in power has them. Actually, it would be strange to find anyone with those in a position of power, as they tend to be mutually exclusive.

That's got to be it!

I'm with you there Moulton. Having help build the Green Party to major party status in this state (New Mexico) It was interesting to watch the power mongers bang their way to the top of the party and destroy reputations, with slander, and run away the caring people with abusive behavior and language. In essence they bullied their way to the top of the party.

Debra, are you a conservationist or a preservationist?

If the people with Orenda, Urim, and Thummim are driven out of politics, where do they end up? I speculate they end up as researchers, scientists, academics, engineers, journalists, writers, pundits, psychotherapists, healers, comedians, artists, performers, composers, theologians, farmers, homemakers, and inmates.

"Actually, it would be strange to find anyone with those in a position of power, as they tend to be mutually exclusive." - moulton I guess I should preface my response with... gee I don't believe we can fit everybody and everything into a mold. And I guess I believe those who are trying to do just that are affected by moulton's "theory is that people are born into a cultural model, accept it without question, and mindlessly adopt the culture's practices." With the emphasis on 'mindlessly' We (as in the general public) rarely see 'those in a position of power' in any state other than a 'professional' one... isn't it a little over zealous to say that these people (?) 'in a position of power' may indeed have all the traits of compassion and empathy and mindfulness and perchance even know the reality of love... but it just doesn't transfer into their job?? I know that I am not always wearing those traits on my sleeve at work... (especially now that I am not teaching!)... but I also believe that I do possess them are you just perpetuating the cycle of blame by now blaming those 'in a position of power' ?

It first came to my attention at AT&T Bell Labs when, for a brief time, I transfered out of the Network Planning Division to take a supervisory position in another division. It was a different culture, more political and less research oriented than the one I had been in. The department manager was young, controlling, and not very bright. My first performance appraisal under him was rude, to say the least. I went to see the Director for an explanation. "We hurt you," he explained. I was dumbfounded. They deliberately hurt me? Why would they do that? I found no answer, and returned to the Network Planning Division. For reasons unbeknownst to me, people who are perfectly decent human beings in all other ways deliberately hurt their coworkers, somehow thinking that is a sensible thing to do. I don't understand that. Don't they realize that it's counterproductive to deliberately damage their own staff? What are they thinking?

Good Grief, Barry! That is not only counterproductive - it is destructive in so many ways. What goes on at the top levels which makes this necessary? Why are they doing it? We are doomed if this is as widespread as I am beginning to think it is.

It appears to be rooted deep in our culture, at least in many sectors of it. I think it's a byproduct of our competitive culture, in which the goal is not merely to do well, but to hurt the competition. If all competitors adopt the goal of hurting each other, the net result is one hurtin' industry. Gandhi put it this way: "An eye for an eye, and pretty soon the whole world is blind." I have no idea how we are gonna get out of that idiotic mindset.

We are reversing the positive aspects of civilization at an alarming rate. We are little better than ego-driven (is it that or something altogether different?) cavemen with no social conscience, it would seem.

It appears we are held hostage by our limbic brains, by our Amygdalas. Dan Goleman calls it "emotional hijackings" and they seem to be on the increase. The problems of violence, injustice, venality, corruption, and stupidity are wreaking havoc on the poor Amygdala. I have a book here, published in 1989, but timely as ever. Dinosaur Brains: Dealing With All Those Impossible People At Work, by Albert J. Bernstein and Sydney Craft Rozen. And Suzette Hayden Elgin is still pumping out her books, two decades after she wrote The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense. We have more books than ever, but we seem to be losing ground. Wisdom is getting scarce these days.

What it amounts to is that we are all brain-damaged to one extent or the other. Is there an obvious beginning to this corruption of the brain, and how has it progressed in developed and undeveloped civilizations? My son is trying to go into consultation work because he hates working in a cubicle and being belittled by senior staff who are a lot stupider than he is and are very counterproductive to his work. One actually took his reports about to be mailed to clients and ran them through a paper shredder. He publishes 2" thick monographs with graphs, photos and the works (environmental Geologist). It took another two days to reassemble that work. What a waste!

We train our kids early that the way to survive is hurt someone weaker. When my son was in 4th grade he was abused by his public school principal -- lifted off the ground by the neck (which left three purple finger marks on his neck) and locked into a walk-in safe in the office. His offense was splashing in mud puddles after a rain and sassing the playground officer who asked him to stop. We reported the incident to the police, talked to the principal, pulled our son out of school, had several closed meetings with the school board, and finally talked to the newspaper. The County Attorney decided not to press criminal charges against the principal because he was "only 95 % sure" he could get a conviction for child abuse. He urged us to file a civil suit, but because our town is small and we hoped to spare our son the notoriety, we chose not to. I now know that was a mistake. The outcome: the school board paid our son's tuition for the rest of the year at a private school. The convened a "stress management" workshop for all principals in the district. Our family, especially our son, was demonized and the principal ("such a nice guy -- this ia another exaggeration by people who won't control their kids") was retired with honors after serving another 5 years in that school. My son is 23 now; he had a very rocky adolescence. He's recovered from most of it now, except for this, the root of his problems. I don't know what to do for him. I don't know what to do for me, the parent who could not protect him.

It began about 10,000 years when our culture reinvented itself around the agrarian revolution. That's when we invented ownership, money, armies, laws, punishments and other peculiar customs and practices. Putting the food supply under lock and key may not have been such a good idea after all.

At last something comes up! See, from what is known to me about some US institutions, I am not impressed with many features, while some are quite nice. Re: The US Military It is modelled after Prussian concepts and ideas leading right back to the officers hauled to North America as consultants in the 18th century. Other nations have since then changed their military cultures vastly, especially in Europe, but the USA sticks to these traditions, because that is where US-traditions pretty much begin (omitting the pilgrim fathers, yes, but...). In the region where these structures originate, they have been abandoned not only in the military, but also in society in general, at l ast for the greatest part. Now, the military serves the society, not vice versa. And it doesn't simply serve the politicians, either (though I must admit that certain tendencies within the last six months seem to indicate a reversing trend...). Re: The School System A difficult one, where I have to watch my step, I guess. Could get my arm shot off here... There are many fine features, and youngsters who are gifted and well-suported can reach levels of education within 12 years that in some areas are already college-, if not university-level (at least for the first couple semesters). But that is not something the mass achieves, going through all the honor courses and the science classes. Still, it is the foundation upon which the States' research edge is based. What does not amaze me is the report of undue behavior of a school principal. Or other things I witnessed, or have been reported. It is very curious to me to see how much seems to depend on individual popularity and "standing" in US-American schools. How much pressure is on the kids. Like picking on the new freshmen, and breaking them in. And how much it is extremely important to succeed in sports. And how the schools' teams "battle" each other over glory, instead of just comparing their sportsmanship n a more olympic spirit. How important it is to "belong", and how many different uniforms and proper "spirit" are related with all that. How dissent leads to ridicule. What sanctions are in use (Detention Hall! Good grief!). And teachers who are so badly paid, even after decades of service they still have to drive a school bus to make ends meet (how can they still be motivated?). Each child passes an individual course in studies, which is a very good concept, at least in the book. They do not progress in classes of peers, but as individuals, each as fits interests and abilities best (at least that's the idea). But this makes them face the education system on their own. Singled out. Now, the emphasis on sports or other activities like the cheerleaders or the band provide groups to fit in. But what if you aren't the jock, can't get a tune straight, look stupid, smell strange, or hatever else makes you a failure in these groups representing the School as a micro-society, creating an "us"-sentiment? There is a micro-patriotism, and it is either with it or not. And what if you fit in, excell in something, contribute to the school's greater glory, be really popular, get along well with all the good people? You submit yourself to certain conventions and become part of the micro-society, which is considered very much something worth to achieve. But is it? In all instances? What is the impact of that, especially on others (non-members, other schools' students,etc.)? Oh, this is all so difficult for me to express! Don't now how to continue here, so I'll pause for the moment. ***************************************************** Basically, Barry, do me a favor. (a) Look at these things and more contemporary stuff. Do not look too much in the uncharted past and blame e.g. the first folks who stopped their migrating nomad lives. Or the folks who invented bureaucracy in the early hydraulic cultures, so they could organize joint efforts to tame the rivers, make survival easier and improve the crop-yield (Mesopotamia, Egypt, China). Or whoever discovered religions way before the first domestic animal was bred. That doesn't lead us any here right now, and might raise an impression of some "law of nature" or other insurmountable crap behind it. Which it isn't. It's all something we agree upon every day on which we do not explicitly challenge it. Social contracts, lowest common denominators, blablabla. You get the idea. (b) Do not focus so much on an unproven pre-historic past and the present US-situation. What can history tell us - which goes back about 5.ooo years? Why did certain people choose certain concepts for their societies? What problems did that solve? Which new challenges arose? Under what conditions did these societies rise, exist, fall? What concepts seem to be incompatible? Where did these societies succeed, where did they fail? Which of these lessons could be of use to the situation in discussion? And: What other ideas do other countries have right now? How do they handle things? Why do they do that? What's in it for the individual, the society, the state and the corporate sectors? Where do they err and why? Where could they be right? It is easy for me to denounce things I do not like. But do I understand why they are like that? What is negative about it? Can I imagine alternatives? What possible consequences would those have? What would be the benefits? What would be negative about the alternatives? How much acceptance would those idea in the target society have? What do I need to make the alternatives appealing, should my investigation prove them workable? Hmh. Hope to have been any help here. Not that I know what I'm talking about. P.S.: "Putting the food supply under lock and key may not have been such a good idea after all." - I see a problem with this statement. Considering food supply not so much in quality of food, but in sum of calories (or joules or whatever) and vitamins, minerals, etc., I would guess that the average settled person these days - even in development countries - has a higher basic consumption than our nomad ancestors. Greater variety in diet, too. And also more varied ways to get at food than having to have a gang of brutes along to guard the herdes against enterprising "others" from other nomad groups. Plus you don't need the often conservative and rigid feudal caste-system that comes with highly militarized nomad cultures with rather low treshholds concerning violence against any mentioned "others", while frowning on killings within the own group (thus, the banishment - sending somebody away from his society with only what he could carry, so n body would have to spill his blood and upset spirits and the ancestors - heavy players in societies breeding stock). So, shared labor did perhaps rather liberate from depending on limited supplies, plus control over it created a fairer distribution and warehousing to prepare for shortages and desasters. Also, the characteristics of "us" and the "others" changed, as did the role and self-understanding of the individual.

The US Education System was devised some 200 years ago in an unprecedented effort to provide universal education for all children. The US "factory model" of age-cohorted classrooms was invented from scratch at a time when there was little scientific knowledge of how children learn. Starting with Piaget, we have learned much about the learning process. Were we to invent schools today, we would adopt a model more like that of Maria Montessori, which is closely matched to how learning really works. To my mind, the schools need to be dramatically redesigned if we are to deliver optimum service to our children. In one project where Moonbeam and I have cooperated, we have a voluntary participation learning community with learners of all ages. The school-age participants tell us they love to learn but they hate school. They report that school leaves them feeling bored, frustrated, or anxious at best, and angry and disgusted at worst. My primary research the past 15 years has been on the interplay of emoti ns and learning. It's not very hard to design learning environments in which the learning process is fun, pleasurable, and emotionally satsifying. It's not hard for a very simple reason: that's how God designed the human brain! It's astounding how the public schools have screwed that up and managed to make schools feel like concentration camps.

To my mind, the schools need to be dramatically redesigned if we are to deliver optimum service to our children. --- yes they do It's not very hard to design learning environments in which the learning process is fun, pleasurable, and emotionally satsifying. --- no it's not. I have very few arguements with what people are saying here but I am damned sick and tired of people telling me what's wrong with my society, my world, my universe and not putting themselves out on a limb to offer suggestions. I agree the Montessori method is ideal (for many children) HOWEVER which to we modify first... the school? the society? the home? the family? Do you think a generation of children brought up in Montessori classrooms full of experiential learning are going to be able to perform well on all those standardized tests that our school systems have deemed essential? Do you suggest we get rid of those tests? Is laziness innate or learned? Is drive for success/happiness/knowledge innate or learned? I realize that I am doing allthe asking and not much of the suggesting. However, based on your credentials/experience aren't I questioning an expert?

By the way... I went to great pains that were worth every effort to ensure my classroom did NOT feel like a concentration camp. And apologies for straying off topic.. in retrospect I suppose I should've posted in the education conference. In my mind though... the education system and societal violence are not mutually exclusive. Sometimes they may inhibit one another and sometimes one provides the catalyst for the other.

stacey, thank you for posting here. i don't think it should've been in the education conference -- this is where the subject arose. it's not off topic at all. despite the loving and excellent efforts of teachers like you, the public education system is still built on the 19th century idea of shaping children to grow up and fit into the machinery of capitalism. teaching compliance and obedience to authority are its foundation. how do we change that foundation to reflect a commitment to personal growth and finding joy in lifelong learning? what did YOU do to bring that gift to students in your classroom? i'm sure you did that, based on the love for teaching that comes through your words here.

I don't have any political power, so I can't cause society to change. But what Moonbeam and I have been able to do is to craft a model learning community built upon the principles we espouse. And we've been collecting evidence and experience in that community for many years now. Whether others will take note of our model (and others like it) I cannot say. But the model is there for those who care to examine it. Arnold Greenberg has done similar work with similar results. We did it in cyberspace, he did it in an alternative school in Blue Hill, Maine. Now we are moving on to the Orenda Project, to bring these same ideas to the adult community.

And is this model in the Orenda Project topic??? Ah ha! I just needed direction!

And moonbeam... I could go on for hours about my classroom, about my kids, about the challenges... however, for me the experience involved personalization... my kids had so many different emotional issues that the system and it's authoritarian ways were not penetrating in a positive manner... at the same time... activities to encourage intrinsic motivation that worked for one child, didn't work for another... it was all about taking enough one on one time with each child, assessing historical influences in their life (positive and negative), considering learning styles and previous successes... I couldn't have a blanket policy on teaching... I don't see how one could ever be effective... People are so different, we want to encourage that... If you or moulton or any other being has any advice on how to 'change the system' I would LOVE to hear it... I might even be persuaded to go back into the field with a plan. i don't kow where to start. I know that there are teachers who shouldn't be, parents that shouldn't be and community leaders that 'don't' but I don't know how to fix that... Ergo, all the questions, probing and what may come across as challenging... I know what's wrong... I think we've identified a lot of the reasons why 'it's' wrong... I want suggestions on how to rectify what we've wrought!

"it was all about taking enough one on one time with each child" absolutely totally YES. that is what it's always about, for each of us -- quality one-on-one attention. whether we're teaching online or in a classroom, it always comes down to individual attention. how do we get that message across to the legislatures that vote the fund (or not) our public school classrooms? i teach/research in higher ed and i bitch about it, but i've got *nothing* to whine about compared to public school teachers and i know that. personally, i love your questions and your probing and your challenges. barry's a natural teacher but he's never had to teach a class -- guest lectures excepted here -- day after day after day, like you and i have. do YOU have any suggestions for fixing this mess?

The reason I won't teach a class is that I don't believe it is possible to teach people who do not come to the learning process of their own free will. I will lead a seminar if everyone there has come voluntarily because they desire to learn, and not because something bad will happen to them if they fail to attend. Consider the way guidance works on rockets. There is a course to be followed to reach the destination. As the rocket drifts off course, the guidance system continually computes tiny corrections to the thrust vector to minimize the error between the rocket's trajectory and the desired course. Only if the rocket drifts dangerously off course will NASA blow up the rocket. What we do with people is we let them drift without guidance and then we find the ones who have drifted too far from the norm and we damage them with some kind of sanction or punishment. For the life of me I cannot understand why an intelligent culture would operate that way. Rules enforced with sanctions and punishments is known to produce a population of damaged souls. When are we going to wake up and start using our God-given ability to think?

my suggestions... certianly not all encompassing but... it's not JUST about not enough teachers, it's also about quality. Mediocrity is acceptable in public school systems because they are too large to encourage/discourage otherwise Holding teachers accountable is one way to increase accountability in our youth. Merit raises for teachers... not based on standardized test scores but based on real live evaluations from real live principals who give a flip about what and how and why their teachers are teaching... We were 'reviewed' every year but those reviews seemed cursory. Always EXCELLENT, EXCEEDS EXPECTATIONS... well... perhaps we need to raise those expectations so that the teachers who've been 'acceptable' will be encouraged to expand their capabilities. (I'll write more later... gotta go!)

Conversations in the Garden A child is walking in the garden. As she walks, she sometimes talks to God... Child: God? God: Yes my child? Child: I have a question. God: I love hearing your questions. Child: God, when you created me, why didn't you just give me all the knowledge I would ever need, like the adults already have? God: My child, I gave you something far more precious than the knowledge the adults already have. Child: You did? What's that? God: My child, I gave you the ability to learn anything at all, including new things that even the adults haven't figured out. Child: Wow, neat! God smiles. Child: But now I have another question, if you don't mind... God listens. Child: When you made me, why did you give me emotions? God: Ah! That is the best question anyone has asked me in a long time. Child: You're holding me in suspense. Tell me, God, why *did* you give me emotions? God: Think about it, my child. Without emotions, how would you become aware of what you needed to learn, or sense when you'd finally learned it? Child: Hrrmm. Mebbe this learning business could be fun. God smiles. Child: God? God: Did you have another question? Child: Yah... Can we meet again tomorrow? God beams.

I've discovered four deeply rooted assumptions in the culture that, to my mind, are not supportable or tenable, according the best available scientific research and analysis. Assumption #1: Society can be regulated through the mechanism of rules enforced by sanctions. Assumption #2: Blame is sufficient to establish cause and effect. Assumption #3: Inducing feelings of guilt and shame leads to desirable learning. Assumption #4: Having power makes the first 3 assumptions true.

Amen, Barry. One thing about homeschooling that I am especially enjoying is not having to "teach" my daughter anything. Just guiding and directing her interests to appropriate resources takes away my need to have power or control over her learning. I wish I knew the long-term fix, but for now I'll just have to do what I can to make learning as unschool-like as possible.

Gosh, thank you all for posting here! Finally, this thing I tried to get going starts to be lively! I mean, I sensed that these "US Culture" topics might be a tool to get answers to some things I was curious about, but yeah! It's probably gonna be REALLY interesting now. On Barry's Response #48, I have taken the liberty to reply at http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/justice/5.22 . I welcome constructive comments in either this or the justice topic.

Autumn please take a look at Bring a Candle, Not a Sparkler. It's an article that Nan Williams is now adapting and enlarging into book. Our thesis is similar to yours in your homeschooling practice: Every day everybody is ready to learn something. What are you ready to learn right now? Let's learn that.

Can I use that as our school motto? You've basically paraphrased all John Holt's books in three sentences! I will check out that link and probably wind up forwarding it to others.

Be my guest. I picked up a bunch of John Holt's books recently at a second-hand bookstore, but I hadn't gotten around to opening them yet. :)

This is the reality if the Us Violence Culture. This was e-mailed to me today. This is the reality of the minorities in this country...the reality that will be yours unless you hear these words and realize you are only a thin line away... July 20th, 1999 at 10:10a.m., ranking officers from the Minnesota State Troopers and Minneapolis Police Department came the the Minnehaha Spiritual Encampment. Camp Member, Thunder, approached the ranking State Trooper and asked him why they had come here today. He was told that they were at camp to "take a look around." Thunder asked if they were here to take any action today against the camp. The officer informed him that they were not here to take any action today, against the camp, but to take a look around to see when they do take action what type of action they need to take. The officer asked him if the camp has a sweat lodge, and Thunder pointed to the lodge. The officer asked him if this was the same lodge that we had at the last camp. Thunder said that yes it was, and that he should know that because he was the officer who dismantled the sweat lodge during the last raid on December 20th of 1998. He said that if they need to dismantle the lodge again, they would make sure that it was returned. The Police and State Troopers also had with them a MnDoT official and a representative of Thommes and Thomas, a land clearing firm based out of Stillwater, Minnesota. The land destroyer from Thommes and Thomas had a clip-board and was taking notes on the trees in the area, including the FOUR SACRED TREES, that have been at the center of the struggle to protect this land for the last year. This is the calm before the storm, and now is the time that we must act before they bring their machines to desecrate this sacred gound. We need you, and we need you now. If you have ever felt moved by this struggle, and would be willing to come down and camp with us, now is the time. THE RIGHT OF WAY CLEARING FOR THE REROUTE OF HIGHWAY 55 IS SCHEDULED TO BEGIN BY AUGUST 2ND OF THIS YEAR. BECAUSE OF THIS ENCOUNTER WITH THE POLICE AND STATE TROOPERS, WE BELIEVE THAT THEY WILL RAID THE CAMP BEFORE THAT DATE. We need wave upon wave of people to form a human ring around the four sacred trees and stand with us in prayer and resistance around the sacred fire that has burned since August 10th of 1998. This is a place of prayer and its sacredness has been testified to by spiritual elders from six different First Nations. We need people willing to risk arrest to stand up for the sacredness of this land, to protect the trees, Camp Coldwater Spring, and for the human rights of Native Americans to freedom of religion. This place is a church to all Native Americans, what would you do if this was your church facing the bulldozers? Our spirit is not crushed. MnDoT will never pave over our prayers, and if we stand united and strong we still can save this land for the future generations. We ask all people of conscience to call the Mayor's office, the Governor's Office and even the President of the United States and demand that this re-route of Highway 55 be Stopped immediately, and that this land between Minnehaha Falls and Camp Coldwater Spring be protected for all time. We also ask that you call and fax these two companies that have been awarded the contract for the destruction of the trees and land: C.S McCrossan Inc. 7865 Jefferson Highway Maple Grove, MN phone (612) 425-4167 fax (612) 425-0520 fax (612) 425-1255 WE DO NOT LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY....WE AS ANGLOS ONLY HAVE A SENSE OF SHARING IN THE POWER AS LOMG AS WE GO ALONG WITH THE VOICE OF SILENT IGNORANCE. YOU WILL NOT FIND THIS IN MAINSTREAM MEDIA...MAINSTREAM MEDIA IS CONTROLLED BY CORPORATE AMERICA...THEY DO NOT WANT US TO KNOW THE TRUTH. THE TRUTH IS; ONCE YOU SPEAK OUT IN OUTRAGE YOU FIND OUT THAT YOU ARE AS UNIMPORTANT AS THE SO CALLED MINORITIES WHO LIVE THIS REALITY EVERY DAY OF THIER LIVES. BUT MY FRIENDS...IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THE WOLF WILL BE KNOCKING AT YOUR DOOR...THEY DO NOT CARE...YOU ARE JUST A PAWN IN THIER GAME OF POWER.

Compare the Native Americans in their Sweat Lodge Camp with the Falun Gong, sitting quietly on mats, breathing and meditating. Nothing terrifies the authorities more than large numbers of people sitting quietly with their brains engaged. They're liable to figure out what's really going on. Which is that the authorities are scared to death that they don't really have any control, except through induced fear. The authorities are the professional terrorists. And groups like Falun Gong and the Native Americans are demonstrating they are not intimidated by terrorists.

This is an e-mail I sent to Channel 7 TV here in Albuquerque In response to a TV report on "the New Welfare fraud." I recieved no reponse back. My information is well researched since this was information for my Honors Thesis. The issue I found most appaling was that the right to legal representation was taken away from the poorest of this countries citizens. Attention Pahl Shipley I saw you intend to do a program on welfare fraud in this state.and felt compelled to reveal to you the information I uncovered in doing research for a thesis for my degree at UNM, on welfare reform in this state. Gov. Johnson's agenda to put all recipients off the welfare roles in this state has huge holes in it that are either being ignored or overlooked. I would like for you to look up the lowest rent in this city. A couple of semesters ago I looked at the rents for the cheapest 2 bedroom apartments in Albuquerque in one day. I found listed in the paper, 6 apartments under $400.00. The cheapest was $350.00 and that did not include utilities. (I also have national stats on the number of subsidized housing units in comparison to the number of qualified people. The numbers are appalling and in now way adress the needs of the poor). I then found out what a 40 hour a week minimum wage job paid, after taxes and social security for an employee who was single and had one child.. Which was about $692.00 a month. Next I found out what the dollar amount (for food) Human Services gave to a single mother with one child. Which was $264.00 a month, I subtracted from the months wages the $350.00 rent and the amount allotted by Human Services for food. I and was left with a balance of $96.00. That $96.00 had to cover utilities, possibly day care, medical, transportation, clothing, possibly school supplies, household goods like; TP, shampoo, toothpaste, and cleaning supplies like; dish soap and clothes soap. However, if you research low skill jobs which are more often than not, corporate franchise jobs, you find out that most of these jobs do not have many full time positions. Why? Because by not hiring people full time, they are able to avoid the expense of Social Security and medical insurance. Next, if you research the mass transit system in this city you will note that as welfare reform came down...bus schedules, which were not adequate to begin with, were reduced...not once but at least twice and if you compare this with work schedules, had never been adequate to serve the needs of the poor work force. Many of these low paying jobs have evening and night schedules. The media reports the huge numbers of uninsured motorist, without ever considering the reasons behind those numbers. (The lack of jobs paying a living wage, the lack of adequate mass transit.) It is so easy to blame the poor for turning to welfare, if you do not take a realist look at why these people are forced into this life style. In my research I also came across another interesting bit of information. In about, 1935 the federal government adopted an attitude based on what came to be known as the Keynesian Principal., (The originator of this principal was John Maynard Keynes) which basically established that if capitalism was to remain healthy, there needed to be around a 6-7% unemployment rate. This keeps a hungry group of people in the public sector who are willing to work for whatever wages are offered them and also reduces the risk of threat to the private economic control of the country. It is easy to target the poor in this country with reports like the one you will do tomorrow. They do no have a voice, nor can they afford legal council to defend their rights. In fact you are probably unaware that prior to passing Welfare Reform legislation was passed (45 CFR 1639 62FR 30763 June 5 1997) which basically states that no federally funded legal agency can contest the legality of Welfare Reform. That includes Legal Aid and The American Civil Liberties Union, who always been the legal voice of the underdog. This guarantees that despite their constitutional right to legal defense, unless they can afford to hire a lawyer, the poor in this nation are doubly screwed. I have done most of your homework for you. I anxiously await your response. " Evil prevails when good men do nothing." La Paz Sea Contigo. Debra Tenney

In respose to your post about you son...(34 I believe) I know the story well. Both of my children were abused not only by their peers but by Teachers and administrators as well. The end result of my portest is that they were abused more. (sigh)

aschuth: back in post 35 I think what Mouton was trying to say is...once we began to produce in surplus our daily needs, we began to hord those things we could store. The beings who controlled the surplus then became for the first time...powers to be reckoned with. Unfortunately the power was not used wisely. They ceased to think of the group first...and began to think of what this power could bring them. The others, seeing this power, coveted what it brought to the people in control of the surplus. There is a vast amount of archeological data that points to a time when certain societies were egalitarian. They know this because when the bones of the group were examined there were no differences in the nutritional development in the bones. All the inhabitants suffered when there was a food shortage...Their homes and all their decorations and furnishings reflected no social stratus. One of the defenses we hear too often in our society is that the hierarchical structuring we are living with is the only way it has ever been and therefore the only way it can be. This misnomer creates a feeling of stasis that seems impossible to break since, seemingly, to do so would go against human nature. Barry, Moonbeam and I can tell you what it feels like to contest these things which seem to be norms. Moonbeam described what happened when she contested the violence against her son. I can tell you what it is like to build a minor party into a major party here in my state. The reaction is always the same when you stop being a sheep. You are further victimized or labled a nut case. Look at movies where people have stood up to "the powers that be" You walk out of there knowing that you have seen hero sm at it's best...but you also walk out questioning if you would ever have the nerve to stand up against the forces that will do anything to silence the voice of truth. These movies both inspire us and discourage us from stepping out of our comfort zone. Most people would rather swallow a little abuse than bring down the wrath of the system on themselves. We have been trained since childhood to take it and keep our mouths shut. Every parent who does not step forward and defend their child...every human who looks at an injustice and states "you can't fight city hall" as they walk away.... embeds that message into everyone's psychi that sees or hears their words. The end result is a society filled with rage and nowhere to put it. So people do the next easiest thing...they try to assuage the rage with things...power, and possesions. They want to be the keeper of the surplus so that when they bully someone or take advantage of them, everyone is afraid to speak out against them. New Mexico is an interesting place because it has begun to overpopulate later than most places. I have lived in small communities here where the same corrupt politicians keep getting elected only because they are the keepers of the surplus....they own or at least control the industry and business in the communities. If word got out that you didn't vote for them...they made sure your family didn't find a decent job. It takes not only courage but balls of steel to stand up to that type of control. When you make general statements like: .... "That doesn't lead us any here right now, and might raise an impression of some "law of nature" or other insurmountable crap behind it. Which it isn't. It's all something we agree upon every day on which we do not explicitly challenge it. Social contracts, lowest common denominators, blablabla. You get the idea.".....perhaps you are talking about yourself. Ihave written numerous articles and spoken before legislative hearings on issues...my family has paid dearly for my outspoken nature and every time I swear to myself I will never go out on that limb again. Why? Because the vast majority of people sit quietly at home and cheer you on n the privacy and saftey of their little piece of the pie. OR you have the Philosopher Kings who have "diarrhea of the mouth" and seize every opportunity to take center stage...as long as they are not called to act on their words. So people like myself get to take the full brunt of the wrath of "the powers that be." Moulton also puts his money where his mouth is...he follows up with action. But being a good leader, he asks you what it is you want and need....unlike politicians who have forgotten they are PUBLIC SERVANTS. He understands that his vision is limited by what he feels is good and just...just as yours and mine. If we are to find solutions we have to look to ourselves...not to some Mass Media Produced, tell em what they want to hear so you can get elected, leader. When Moulton questions rather than feeding you his answers...he does it to empower you...not himself.

Good post, Debra. Maybe most of us here have walked the walk, eh?

What is our path to peace?

(KitchenManager I have a real problem with labels. I personally believe that part of the probelm is we try to lock everyone into neat little niches that are so ridgeid that we lose any understanding of the complex diversity that makes up this planet. I think that we should apprach the use of all resources with a conservationist attitude; however, we need to preserve resouces with a keen eye to the future. I took a class on Bio-diversity, in which I learned that there are key species in every ecosystem that at first glance may seem to have no value...but when they are removed, the removal collapses the whole ecosystem around them. stacey: There is a huge difference in blaming and diagnosing a problem. Do we call it blaming when a Doctor states that someone has concer?

Blaming assume responsiblity, and in our culture, that's a license to punish. I don't believe in punishment. When my computer acts up, I diagnose it and cure it. I don't punish it. I don't believe in percussion maintenance.

Moonbeam...most of us have walked the walk. Unfortunately because our society has become so isolated and insulated...we do not see the commonality. When I became an activist and started trying to support all the causes...I quickly became overwhelmed. The injustaces being perpetrated by corporations and our government were so many and happening with such frequency that at times I felt like I was drowning. One instace sticks out...a law suit against a mojor corporation in Northern New Mexico. A Pueblo was being posioned by a corporation that had moved up stream from them. People were going blind...children were suddenly being born deformed or with serious diseases in numbers that were impossible to ignore. The people of the pueblo came to the National Green Party Convention and begged for our support. I have their personal testimonys on video tape. Their descriptions of how the court was treating them were criminal. If I forwarded every issue that is sent to me alone you would feel engulfed and would beg me to stop.

(KitchenManager I have a real problem with labels. I personally believe that part of the probelm is we try to lock everyone into neat little niches that are so ridgeid that we lose any understanding of the complex diversity that makes up this planet. I think that we should apprach the use of all resources with a conservationist attitude; however, we need to preserve resouces with a keen eye to the future. I took a class on Bio-diversity, in which I learned that there are key species in every ecosystem that at first glance may seem to have no value...but when they are removed, the removal collapses the whole ecosystem around them. stacey: There is a huge difference in blaming and diagnosing a problem. Do we call it blaming when a Doctor states that someone has concer?

I dislike labels myself, but at times it is easier to ask someone what their beliefs are by using them...my apologies if I offended.

Very interesting thread. Good posts Debra. In fact at the risk of sounding like I'm sucking up, I haven't seen a post of yours in here yet that I haven't fully agreed with. Not that I think I'm a anti-ditto head, and I have some perspectives on this that you possibly don't, and I'm sure that you have so much more in your head then what you have told us. Still, damn good posts. Alexander mentioned back in #36 that we shouldn't look too hard at the roots and I have to disagree with this. The roots are patriarchy and unless we look at what is essential for a patriarchal system to survive we will not be able to implement any permanent change, and any change that are affected will be temporary luxuries that will be dispensed with as soon as necessity demands. I have to admit that I squirmed a little when Debra criticized the Philosoper Kings that didn't go out into the street. I don't do volunteer work myself. If its important enough to do then why shouldn't there be pay for doing it. We have enough money to spend on war and corporate welfare and yet the thinks that are important enough for people to do them without pay go without funding. Why not have a volunteer military and if people think it is important enough they will save up and buy a tank and join with others to go to war. Of course if we operated like that the chances of us ever having a war would be minimal and how can you make any money like that. It seems like you are either supposed to get with the program and be obedient to whatever authority says. If you can't do that because of a humanitarian conscience then you should play the codependent role and be a medic and patch up the wounded so the program doesn't look too objectionable. But heaven help you if you choose to do neither of these and try to educate and inform on the basic injustice of it all. So what kind of solutions can a dissentor come up with which are not codependant that allow the injustice to continue in spite of itself?

KitchenManager; No offense taken! I don't know about others but I find myself not fitting any of the labels thrown at me. Am I liberal? Yes, in some ways. Am I a conservative? Yes, on certain issues. I think we should take all ideologies and stomp on them like grapes in a vat and come up with something that is different and yet brings out the best in each. Maybe then we could come up with solutions that work. This delineation into rigid definitions denies the incredible possilities that are all around us. Ov: I am flattered! (Blush) Moulton says my talent is communication. since I just got my degree in Communications/English/Sociology, (University Studies) maybe I actutually learned something...who would have thought. Thank you! I have enjoyed your posts as well. I just started in March posting at this type of conference. I graduated in May. But I was house bound for months with a physical problem and started posting at Utne out of boredom. Now I am an addict. (grin) It's as much fun as my Honors Classes were, because you actually get to express your thoughts and people listen and comment. It's great fun!

The quality of the dialogue varies from venue to venue on the Internet. The dialogue model I most enjoy was the model I learned as a teenager in the early 60s. Under the leadership of Rabbi Kripke in Omaha, a small number of us joyfully attended a weekly seminar in which we explored all manner of intriguing questions. I now look back on that model and call it Rabbinnic-Talmudic Philosophy 101. That's my reference for an ideal conversation. There was something Rabbi Kripke was doing there, asking carefully crafted questions, that kept us on track, pushing ever deeper into lear thinking, without the kind of recriminations that I keep seeing on Utne.

The problem with ideologies is that they are static and are therefore unable to adapt to change. Over time they become more and more juryrigged to keep them functioning and to keep supporting the illusion that they are absolute truth. To do otherwise would destroy their credability which is what legitimizeses their use of power. All ideologies are rule based systems that legitimize the use of power by an elite to control everyone else. Good enough reason to move beyond them IMNSHO.

Ov, you took the words right out of my mouth! (dawnis is seen jumping up and down for joy) Hey Moulton...another Orendasite? We aren't the only ones on the planet. Yipeee!

About 15 years ago, the experts took a look at rule-based systems and found them inadequate to construct anything but the most primitive and uninteresting form of intelligent system. In particular, rule-based systems could not reach goals where the strategy depended on selecting which rule to fire when more than one rule is eligible. A trivial example is Chess. The rules of chess are not hard to learn. But the rules of chess do not include any wisdom as to how to play well. To reach a goal, a more po erful method of analysis is required -- one that cannot be reduced to a dissociated rule-set. Only the most banal of problems could be reduced to a set of rules. In other words, a rule-base system is demonstrably weak, demonstrably stupid relative to the kinds of problems we rely on intelligence to solve. More powerful problem-solving methods do exist. They rely on methods that go beyond what is achievable with dissociated rules. They rely on algorithms and heuristics, on search strategies, on methods of successive approximation, on models, and other methods of reasoning which are more powerful than that which can be achieved with rulesets. It is unfortunate that so much of human culture is locked into a mindset of rule-based systems of social regulation. They may have been an improvement when they wer first introduced some 5000 years ago, but by today's standards, rule-based systems are primitive, archaic, ineffective, counterproductive, and provably inadequate to do the job. Rules, enforced by santions and punishments, are a primary cause of systemic injustice, and a demonstrated cause of depression and violence in the culture. The solution is to evolve to a more enlightened method of social regulation based on learning the long lost art of civility.

Now, the real problem, Debra, is to translate that into song, poetry, story, or play, such that the other 5.9 billion people can understand it.

I think that the myth of Horace and the myth goddess might be the one that is able to do it. Something that will give them something to believe in, and something that they want. Because if you're going to go the distance it had better be for somthing you love rather than something you're afraid of.

From dawnis's post #64 "stacey: There is a huge difference in blaming and diagnosing a problem. Do we call it blaming when a Doctor states that someone has concer? " Of course there is. If someone is going to place himself (through education, passion and profession) at the level of 'doctor' however, we do expect him to offer some sort of treatment suggestions... and from post#58 "Why? Because the vast majority of people sit quietly at home and cheer you on n the privacy and saftey of their little piece of the pie" Just because people aren't 'walking the walk' down city streets doesn't mean they aren't having an impact in their own community circles. You should know, and I believe you do, about the levels of physical, spiritual and emotional energy a body and soul need to immerse themselves pasisonately into a cause or into the battle for change. Some people have those levels, some people don't. Some people can sustain those levels for awhile longer than others... I don't teach anymore. I was drowning in the bullshit. I choked on my own guilt though before I had the nerve to LEAVE. I thought you needed nerve and heart and drive to stay but, once you're caught up, sometimes it takes more effort to break away. I have sadness sometimes, but no regrets. I could not maintain the passion, love and equality in my personal life while continuing to throw everything I had into trying to change the school system. I don't think I've given up, but I am resting. I don't think anyone has reason to mock me as 'quietly at home... [cheering] you on in the privacy and saftey of [my] little piece of the pie' I don't think that's mockable and I believe there are many others like me who have contributed actively, will contribute actively again and who are trying to gather enough strength and inner support. Contribution comes in many forms. (and then there ARE those who truly don't give a poop beyond how it directly affects their 'little piece of the pie')

I am heartened even by a thoughtful person who does nothing more than flash a thumbs up. If my thinking is correct, others will confirm that. It's like coming up with the proof of a theorem in mathematics. If the proof is correct, others will examine it and report that they found it correct. At this point, I'm just looking for provable theorems and the outline of a correct proof.

Stacey...Before there were doctors there were people who asked a lot of questions. A wise person knows that they cannot answer all the questions themselves...it takes a collective mind. In reference to quietly sitting...The people who get me are those who whine and complain about things but make no effort to change things when asked to help. I had to drop out of my activist work because too few of us were trying to do too much. I burned out! I figure if every person on this planet spent one hour a month fighting for their favorite cause we could change the world. Write letters, stuff letters, make a phone call...help with a fund raiser....Most people see injustice an won't take the time to write or call their politicians to express their distaste. One letter represents one hundred voices to politicians. That's a lot of clout being wasted. E-mail makes it a snap. I have a freind who meets with about six friends once a month and they all decide which issue they are going to write a letter to protest about. They make it an event...pot luck and good company.

The only way I know how to solve unsolved problems is with research. Mentioning a problem is insufficient to solve it. Someone has to do the research.

Research either requires funding or people with expertise that are willing to volunteer their time and energy. It also requires being in a nonhostile environment that is free from outside disruption. I think that any research on these subjects has to be done in private conferences. Trial balloons can be sent up in public conferences like this to get feedback, disseminate information and find new recruits. They can also be used to test for significance; there is a positive correlation between the significance of an idea and the amount of antagonism directed towards it.

then I am absolutely opposed to everything...

You said it. The opposition hates to hear the truth so they use fallacies to augment their arguments....personal attacks, silogistic reasoning, slippery slope...and so forth. I just got attacked in Utne again. For posting the Mendota plea for help. I am now officially a tree hugger. My response in here will be another of my silly poems Media Blitz �So it is spoken, so it is done.� a totality of lies spoken in sound bytes, plucked from elements which make up the whole. Truth wrapped in azure blue dreams, slips away in simultaneous descent with fiction, drowned under tannidark water, ghost shifting past Hell�s Gate. We band of fledglings have come empty handed, fresh water fast, attempt to negotiate the relentless traction, disturbing all things as we pass. Aerodynamic, we shift on the fly, exposing society�s firm belief in Faustian bonds, of marriage bound in preseason secrets. Crimes of the art, a clean and functional collection sits there in dementia amidst gangrene hearts and rotting brains. Medusa head of cotton mouths, the wheel out of true, to each a passion, precision crafted in how to suppress the record, big heat, priced to help. Honesty sleeps alone, frugal and anonymous, within the prime notion, dismantled in media hocus pocus, of thee we sing. Hey News flash...I got an appology from the Utne host who was one of my attackers. I just checked my e-mail as I posted this...maybe they are making progress over there. Will wonders never cease?

Sometimes steadfast stoicism paves the path of progress.

For nearly two decades I was fortunate to have a secure place to do funded research. That was at AT&T Bell Labs before the DoJ broke up the Bell System in 1984. Since then, I've done unfunded research on my own, with the same vision and integrity that I brought to the table at Bell Labs, but with the freedom to choose my own research topics. My hallmark is "innovative solutions to complex problems." My method is to apply my training in systems theory. I construct the most comprehensive and accurate m del of the system as I am able, and then I analyze the model for insights into how to solve the problem. My solutions are invariably innovative and creative. And of course, controversial. They also work. But it takes people a long time to get their brains around the paradigm shift that they entail. And that is the problem. I have to wait for people to get over the shock of seeing my model, analysis and proposed solution. One thing I've learned. You can't shove the solution down people's throats. ou just have to wait for them to lose their fear of change.

Tried to post this on Yahoo for you, Debra, but the software bug blitzed it -- Here's what the Minneapolis Star-Tribune wrote today about the situation with the trees on Hiawatha Road. Coverage on TV of this has been pretty shallow, IMO, with the protestors being portrayed as wackos and everyone else being in favor, albeit reluctantly, or "progress." http://www.startribune.com/stOnLine/cgi-bin/article?thisSlug=HWY28&date=28-Jul-99&word=minnehaha (If that link won't paste here without breaking, go to www.startribune.com and search for "minnehaha" -- you'll get a whole page of hits.)

The thing that ticked me off even more when I read that was that they were cutting down the trees for a "temporary" bypass. It would have been bad enough for a permanent change but for a temporary one. If it's only going to be temporary anyway why not just go around the trees. But I suppose that would cost more money and money is sacred. Funny how they don't have a problem understanding sacred when it comes to money.

Mammon and Kronos are the twin gods of the material economy. Their golden ratio is the bottom line.

Here's more awful stuff -- pedophiles are joining relief groups so they can be sent overseas where there is terrible need, and they can find more children to prey on... http://worldnews.about.com/library/weekly/aa072699.htm

Kathy Noll has brought to my attention her research on dealing with schoolyard bullies. Here's is one of her interviews.

Thanks for the link, Barry. I'm delighted Noll has written this book for youngsters. But from my own experiences with bullies, and the experiences of my children, this line gives me pause: "ask an adult to confront the bully without mentioning your name." Any child being bullied knows this is -- no pun intended -- bull. If you tell on somebody, they'll know you told when they're confronted by someone more powerful than themselves. This is how bullies survive to become abusers, how molesters keep their victims from talking, how violence is perpetuated in secret. This is the power. Kids who are being bullied by someone are told by the bully that if they tell, things will get much, much worse. And usually that's exactly what happens.

Thank you for that link to About.com and the horrifying news about pedophilia being visited upon the already stricken refugees. I really do not want this to turn into a gender-bashing exercise, but having poked through alt.newsgroups, it is men preying upon and ultimately destroying the next generation who would replace them in due time. That very act is self-serving to the utmost and sickens me to the core of my being. It is happening in the former Eastern Block Countries of the old Soviet regime, too. Their economies are so devastated that there is little parents can do, I imagine. These exploited children are so unhappy - their eyes reflect their loss of innocence and the ultimate betrayal of the elders who they thought would be thier protectors. We are truly sick!

I published Kai's bullying. Did things get worse?

Worse? Only if you think grown men pedophiles preying on the starving and homeless war victim-children is worse than bullying. I'd definitely have to say yes, but I am just a mother and a woman.

Marcia, I just posted a response to you to thank you for commenting on the pedophilia link. I was concerned when nobody said anything about something that awful, in a topic dedicated to violence and culture. Unfortunately, my whole post was erased when I breathed on some invisible key somewhere. This has happened a number of times to me in this software -- if the page reloads or for some reason goes back, I lose whatever I've written! This is becoming quite a frustration for me. Barry, to answer your question about your publication of Kai's bullying, at least in the beginning it definitely made things worse. In the end, perhaps not. I don't know.

Poor Nan! I know how that is. It has become necessary for my peace of mind to compose my long responses on Wordpad then paste them here and hit the submit button. That way, even if you mistakenly hit the clear button (why are they so close?! - William!!!), you can just control+V again and there it is! I am aghast nothing else has been posted her, also. Perhaps with the evening posts we might get more reaction?! (Wondering how I can fit it into Bioregions or something on Geo...!)

Revenge violence is on the front page. Underlying the drive for revenge are strong feelings. Feelings of rejections and alienation, feelings of injustice. And from where I sit, it does appear that more and more Americans are experiencing episodes of rejection and alienation, episodes of unfair treatment and injustice. It is also clear that the root of the problem of recurring episodes of unfair treatment and injustice is to be found in our most cherished institution - the law. The law, once venerated and highly respected, has touched more and more people, and has visited more and more unfair treatment and injustice on Americans than ever before. It's a trickle-down economy. The culture of shaming and blaming, of alienation and scapegoating, of sanctions and punishments, is producing a nation of anger. Not everyone can receive injustice, sublimate their anger into depression, and survive on Prozac. Some will turn their anger into revenge. That younger and younger people are doing it should be a red flag that our horrific culture of violence is out of control. And the root of violence is to be found in our adoption of a rule-based system of social regulation, with the rules enforced by authorized and sanctioned violence. That model is no longer tenable or ethical. It's time we evolved to a more humane and civil culture.

This is as insightful as it is scary. A Columbine student who experienced one of the many High School Massacres wrote it: "The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings, but shorter tempers; wider freeways, but narrower viewpoints; we spend more, but have less; we buy more, but enjoy it less. We have bigger houses and smaller families; more conveniences, but less time; we have more degrees, but less sense; more knowledge but less judgment; more experts, but more problems; more medicine, but less wellness. We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values. We talk too much, love too seldom, and hate too often. We've learned how to make a living, but not a life; we've added years to life, not life to years. We've been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet the new neighbor. We've conquered outer space, but not inner space; we've cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul; we've split the atom, but not our prejudice. We have higher incomes, but lower morals; we've become long on quantity, but short on quality. These are the times of tall men, and short character; steep profits, and shallow relationships. These are the times of world peace, but domestic warfare; more leisure, but less fun; more kinds of food, but less nutrition. These are days of two incomes, but more divorce; of fancier houses, but broken homes. It is a time when there is much in the show window and nothing in the stockroom; a time when technology can bring this letter to you, and a time when you can choose either to make a difference...or just hit delete."

Thanks, John, for forwarding it to me...