If nonviolence, compassion and love are not the answer to the complex question submitted by our fucked up world, what is?

Well, some kind of action is probably required. Nonviolence, compassion, and love are certainly excellent values to stimulate action, but as critical as the situation appears, doing something that makes a difference is imperative. Some Buddhists think that it's enough to sit and meditate practice nonviolence, compassion, and love. While all that may be necessary, I don't think it's sufficient. I'd really like to see a multitude of Buddhists united in action to raise the consciousness of the people on the planet so we can continue to have people on the planet. But I don't know what to do to make that happen.

The SF Zen Center has a pretty activist posture. I mean, considering that there is a core philosophy of non-attachment to achieving set goals. The precept that says Do Not Kill is interpreted in a much broader way as to do no harm, and compassion is seen as doing acts that help to avoid harm and suffering, not just in front of you, but in the future. We know a lot more about the future now than they did back in the Buddha's day. The Headwaters situation was brought up in the dharma talk on a couple of occasions. The former abbot and current head teacher, Reb Andersen, says in his bio that he is particularly concerned with how Buddhism relates with issues like the environment and activism. I don't think I'd be a regular attendee if they acted like meditation alone would cure the world's ills. I wonder what other peoples' experiences are with their brands of Buddhism and their teachers. Is this a particularly San Francisco thing?

I don't think nonviolence, compassion and love are sufficient to saving the planet either. Not in its current critical state. Remember that in Mahayana Buddhism bodhisattvas are supposed to be heroes (or heroines, let us not forget) who come to the rescue. They're supposed to be so intent on the ultimate salvation of the world that there will be times when it will be appropriate for them to break any rule in the Buddhist ethical canon -- including killing for the sake of the greater preservation of life. e/she just has to be absolutely he/she is really and truly cool. And, of course, one doesn't know how to know that until enlightenment has arrived. I just spent a 3-day weekend at the Zen Mountain Monastery in Mt Tremper, New York (the Mountains & Rivers Order, led by Abbot John Daido Loori). A grand and beautiful retreat in a deep valley in the Catskills. I wondered at times about how their diligent and devoted routines, crackling with collective attentivenss, could have any effect on the ongoing downward spiral of consciousness in the cities and the suburbs of the world. Someone told me later that they did volunteer work in the New York State prison system -- working at possibly pulling souls out of hell. That's in addition to keeping the old monastery together, clean and attractive to the 20 or 30 people who show up each weekend to see if a higher consciousness is something real and attinable. And then providing them with indisputable evidence that absolute love and devotion will put meaning and value into being human. That's doing a lot. But a lot more, of course, is required.

I was just listening to Robert Thurman's tape on Basic Buddhism, and was struck by his idea of delusion - thinking that we're not full of bliss all the time is deluded. What a nice way to feel!

What books do folks recommend on Buddhism?

Well, I'd say that the best books on the subject are Eugene Herrigel's Zen And the Art of Archery, and Zen Flesh, Zen Bones, a collection of koans and Zen stories. Other good books (IMHO) are: Shunryu Suzuki's Zen Mind, Beginners Mind, and Myamoto Musashi's Book of Five Rings. at least of those I've read...

I've read Zen Mind, Beginners Mind and this is an excellent book.

The Tibetan version of buddhism is somewhat different in it's trappings from the zen one but very rich also. Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche wrote some of the most accessible material about buddhism that I've encountered. Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism was the first of his books to move me. The Vipassana tradition from Burma is also a wonderful approach. Jack Kornfield's A Path With Heart is a tremendous introduction to Buddhism and spirituality in general.Steven Levine's books are also great (some direct y about buddhism and some more concerned with death and dying kinds of material).

Many, many years ago, when I was but a mere child of 18, I read several books written by a Tibetan monk by the name of Tuesday Lobsang Rampa. Tuesday was his first name because that was the day of the week he was born on, I remember that. Anyway, his first book was called The Third Eye. He wrote of Chinese occupation in Tibet, of the Dali Lama, how to astral project, etc. I was totally influenced by these books. I remember him writing how by the year 1990 or 2000 (can't remember which) the Golden Age w uld be reached...that would be when there would be no more racial disparities because there would be no more different races. Everyone would be of the same race. I really liked that idea but of course, now I realize it won't come to fruition, at least not in the timeline he had submitted. If anyone runs across any books by him at a second hand book store, they ought to check him out. They're very interesting books.

Hmm. Sounds interesting, although there aren't different races anyway. Just put people of different colour in line, beginning from an albino and ending with someone living in Zaire. Then try to divide them in races. It is impossible. Or are there any methods of doing it? I'd sure like to know...

jaxers: What differentiates a Buddhist tenet system from a non-Buddhist tenet system, as our Buddhist ancestor philosophs would have it - are three basic tenets: - That everything - both concrete and abstract - is impermanent (anityam) - That everything - both person, persona, and "thing" - is without a stable, essential, enduring self-existence (anatman), and - That everything in Samsara - the wheel of birth, becoming and death that makes up the theatre for our deluded existences - is unsatisfactory ("dukkha" - which is usually rendered "suffering" - not the best translation, i'm afraid). The corrollary to this would be - That Nirvana is peace. This is the basic platform from which the manifold Buddhsims spring.

Should we talk about the million Tibetans killed so far by the Chinese execution? Would that be an appropriate new topic for this conference. It might be appropos, specially at this moment, when the film "Seven Years in Tibet" has just opened, there's a Richard Gere film opening soon (does anyone know the title) and Kundun, about the early life of the Dalai Lama, opens in late December. The International Campaign for Tibet is distributing action kits at movie theaters; there were vigils nationwide on October 8th. There's going to be a candlelight vigil in the Chinese Embassy on Tuesday, Oct 28 at 6:30 pm and a demonstration at the White Hous Oct 29 from noon to 2. Busloads are coming in for this. I'm trying to find out if there's anything going on in Austin and I just heard about an event of major important next weekend in NYC which I'll be posting about.

The Buddhaist temple in Denver is holding an open informational series on this as well.

Since Tianman Square, the dissidents have all either fled the country to safety, and the remaining ones have been jailed or executed, thus quieting things down. The US govt. is rewarding this "quieting down" with all kinds of trade favors and preferential treatment. But the problem hasn't gone away.

A quote from: "When Things Fall Apart - Heart Advice For Difficult times," by Pema Chodron, the American Tibetan Buddhist. As human beings, not only do we seek resolution but we also feel that we deserve resolution. However, not only do we not deserve resolution, we suffer from resolution. We don't deserve resolution; we deserve something better than that. We deserve our birthright, which is the middle way, an open state of mind that can relax with paradox and ambiguity. To the degree that weUve been avoiding uncertainty, weUre naturally going to have withdrawal symptoms -- withdrawal from always thinking that thereUs a problem and that someone, somewhere, needs to fix it. The middle way is wide open, but it's tough going, because it goes against the grain of an ancient neurotic pattern that we all share. When we feel lonely, when we feel hopeless, what we want to do is move to the right or the left. We don't want to sit and feel what we feel. We don't want to go though the detox. Yet the middle way encourages us to do just that. It encourages us to awaken the bravery that exists in everyone without exception, including you and me. Meditation provides a way for us to train in the middle way -- in staying right on the spot. We are encouraged not to judge whatever arises in our mind; in fact, we are encouraged not to even grasp whatever arises in our mind. What we usually call good or bad we simply acknowledge as thinking, without all the usual drama that goes along with right and wrong. We are instructed to let the thoughts come and go as if touching a bubble with a feather. This straightforward discipline prepares us to stop struggling and discover a fresh, unbiased state of being.

yes, it does.

I've started practicing Nichiren Daishonin's buddhism with SGI, this past year. This group stresses: faith, practice, study and ACTION. You can't just meditate and hope for everything to work out as you'd like it to. You need to meditate or chant as this group does and then based on the inner-wisdom you connect with while chanting/meditating, you take action to improve your life and to make the world/your community a better and more peaceful place. There's a great book about this practice by a leader in the British SGI group. His name's Richard Causton....I can't remember the title of the book off the top of my head though. MMC, check out SGI in your area (should be listed under Soka Gakkai International in your phone directory) if you want to find (per your response above) "a multitude of buddhists united in action working to raise the consciousness of the people" throughout the world.

Do they have a group in the Austin area?

terry, (i think this msg from you is in ref to my comment...so, I'm answering your question!), SGI is all over the world. I have an address listing for the larger cultural centers in the US. Austin isn't listed but Dallas is, as follows: SGI-USA, 2733 Oak Lawn Ave, Dallas, TX, 75219. Phone is: 214-559-4115, Fax is: 214-559-2288. I'd suggest calling and asking for a contact person in your area who could give you some introductory info on the group. Let me know if you have any more questions (and, if you hook up w/the group in Austin)!

Thanks Megan.