I do not wish to interrupt the interesting discussion...however I just want to say that: Tickets for THE REAL THING with JE and SD go on sale today. Book through the Donmar or The Albery Theatre where it will play from January 13th to March 18th. Thereafter transferring to the Belasco Theatre on Broadway. Stay tuned for that info later. ~~~~~~ Also read in the newspaper today...AP Wire: SPAM MUSEUM; "Hormel Foods Company maker of the famous canned meat product released an announcement on Monday about the SPAM museum, visitors' center, diner and offices to be built next year in downtown Austin, Minnesota. The museum will also feature a gift shop where tourists will be able to buy SPAM merchandise , and sit down for a nice SPAM meal." Now ...Gi and all of you who have received SPAM memorabilia...don't you feel "ahead of the curve"? :_D ~~~~~ Now pl continue the excellent discussion...I'm listening.

I'm also going to interrupt. Long article about Andrew Davies from the Birmingham Post (11/29)...complaining about the scheduling of W&D against OT (wouldn't survive long in America) but talks about some of his future assignments. You're not going to like it... (BTW, this is v. long - sorry) THE PRINCE OF PERIOD ADAPTATIONS ISN'T HAPPY They call him the prince of period adaptations, the man with the Midas touch, releasing classic literary tomes from the cobwebs of dusty library shelves to a whole new sofa-bound, soap-addicted television audience. From the cosy confines of his home-based office in Kenilworth, Warwickshire, Andrew Davies turned Pride and Prejudice into a sexy Sunday-night romp (thanks largely to Colin Firth's wet shirt) and now he is about to do to Elizabeth Gaskell what he did to Jane Austen - make her a household name for the country's ever-growing costume drama fan club. But Andrew Davies is far from a happy man at the moment, and that is because the powers-that-be, in their infinite wisdom, scheduled his four-part adaptation of Wives and Daughters on BBC1 last night slap bang up against Alan Bleasdale's four-part version of Oliver Twist on ITV. It's like waiting for a bus; you wait all year for a decent costume drama, and then the two big guns finally come out in a head-to-head battle that will have families squabbling over the remote control every weekend until Christm s. 'Being up against Oliver Twist is just AWFUL!' says Cardiff-born Davies, before taking another sip of red wine and really getting started. 'It's the same audience, and Alan and I have the same agent, so I happen to know he's hopping mad too. He's been writing desperate pleading faxes off to the BBC and ITV, but we can't do anything. 'As they're now going head to head, I just hope everyone had their videos whirring - because both will suffer, and looking at it rationally, we're likely to suffer more than ITV, because Oliver Twist is a famous book, and lots of people's favourite book. Wives and Daughters, though, is an unknown quantity for many, and I feel like we're introducing them to a whole new world of literary excellence.' Davies is the ultimate in laid-back confidence and easy-going charm. He holds court like a benign uncle, revelling in his new-found fame and fortune, and occasionally letting slip the odd indiscretion; this is the man, after all, who has made bustles and bonnets the new black of the millennial television era, thanks to the phenomenal performance of his adaptations of Middlemarch, Pride and Prejudice, Moll Flanders, Emma and Vanity Fair. So he can afford to have the odd pop at some of his associates or the management men-in-suits at Television Centre. On several occasions those cliquey literary purist groups - the Jane-ites, for example, who hold Austen in awe and beyond - have taken exception to his liberties, when Davies might have changed the odd plot route or character development for the sake of his small-screen art. But no such fears should abound with Wives and Daughters. 'Relations with The Gaskell Society have been enitrely cordial,' he smiles. 'There are some rival versions about how this serial got under way. I think Sue Birtwistle, who produced Pride and Prejudice, claims that she discovered this book - she comes from that part of the world. 'But the way I remember it, several years ago The Gaskell Society wrote to me, saying that they had enjoyed my versions of Pride and Prejudice, and Middlemarch, and had I ever read Wives and Daughters? Because they regarded it as a neglected masterpiece. Eventually I got around to reading it, and I absolutely agreed with them.' More wine passes lips, and those fruity indiscretions are now just bubbling underneath. 'There was a funny interim period,' he recalls, 'when one of those idiots at the BBC in a high position said 'Could you do a two-hour version of Wives and Daughters?' I said, 'You must be crazy - have you read it?' Of course they hadn't, those kind of people never read anything, they have other people to read for them. 'I said I could possibly do it in four hours. At that point they also approached Sue, and asked her about a two-hour version. She said to me, you can't, can you? So we made a deal to do it in four hours. It's still been a monumental task. I wrote a first draft of the first episode, trying to get a quarter of the book into 50 minutes, and it was all plot - it went like an express train, but it didn't feel like Elizabeth Gaskell. 'You've just got to take your time and get to know the people, and take the risk of people saying 'Well, this isn't developing as fast as EastEnders, I'm going to switch over.' 'That's why I'm surprised, but delighted, that it is on BBC1. That's quite an interesting and brave decision. Ten years ago, it would have been on BBC2. 'The scheduling choice might be more to do with the amount of money they've spent on the series - it looks fantastic. But you've got to be seriously interested in the story, and you've got to be prepared to give a lot of time to it.' Davies tries to keep to a strict routine with his writing. 'I try to observe office hours and get to work before nine in the morning, but I'm not very good at it, and I get worse and worse as the years go by.' His current workload includes finishing an adaptation of Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey, originally intended as a one-off for London Weekend TV, but which will now be a feature film for Miramax, co-produced by LWT. 'I think what Harvey Weinstein wants is to discover the next Gwyneth Paltrow, because the heroine is very young, about 17. I'm sure it will be an American actress!' His most glamorous project at the moment, however, is an adaptation of The Count of Monte Cristo, which Roman Polanski will direct for the cinema. 'It still seems on track,' says Davies. 'I have to have my meetings in Paris, stay in a fine hotel there, eat lots of meals in Paris with Roman and our lovely script editor, Julia Rosenberg. Script editors get a bad press, but on these grander projects, they act more like facilitators.' Nicolas Cage and Ralph Fiennes are two star names being bandied about for the Monte Cristo film. 'I'd be happy with either of them on board,' says Davies. 'I'd love to go on location. I'd hang around like a fan. If he'd let me, I'd love to watch Roman directing, he's such a consumate film-maker. I love his movie Frantic - so immaculately shot.' Davies is continually being given new offers of adaptations. 'Just very recently, I thought quite hard about a book called Prince Gwyn, by David Parry Jones, which is the story of the life of a rugby hero in the early days of rugby, called Gwyn Nichols, who was like the Jona Lomu of his day. He was captain of Wales in about 1906. It was a time when Wales were rugby champions of the world. 'You could see the possibility of a Chariots of Fire-type movie, and David approached me himself, seeing the romantic hero angle, but I turned it down in the end, partly because I don't know enough about rugby. And partly all that difficulty about adapting real people's lives. 'They never have the right dramatic arc, and you get a moral problem, then. Do you twist the facts? Like that movie Shine, about that mad Australian pianist, which was a great success but it turned out to be a load of rubbish because that guy can't play the piano at all.' Davies has lost count of all the television adaptations he has done. He started off back in 1979 with To Serve Them All My Days, R F Delderfield's novel which he turned into a huge BBC1 success, with John Duttine in the lead role. 'All the costume classics came a lot later,' he muses. 'Pride and Prejudice had a fascinating history. Sue Birtwistle, again, originally had a deal with London Weekend to do it, when Greg Dyke was there. But at the time Greg could never convince himself that Jane Austen was what people wanted. He's going to have to think differently now he's the big chief at the BBC. 'He's got to bite the bullet! 'At the time, Nick Elliott, head of drama at LWT, was dying to do a sexy Pride and Prejudice, but Greg would never say yes. So Michael Wearing, BBC's head of drama said 'Oh all right, I'll do it, but not until we've done Middlemarch.' It was a slow burn, but it got us where we are today.' Davies does not think that this is a 'sexy' Wives and Daughters. Instead, he insists that he has been as faithful as possible to the book - even though he did have to finish it off for Mrs Gaskell 'I think people make a ot of fuss about it being an unfinished novel,' he says, 'because I really don't know how many more pages she wanted to write. 'It looked like she was about to go into yet another delay to the happy ending that she very clearly had in mind. It's so clear what ending she wanted, and that it is actually a happy ending. 'Molly is just such a love and it would be utter cruelty to deny her a happy ending, so what we try to do is give the audience what they want, but not quite in the way they thought they were going to get it.' So, Mr Davies, did you have to finish the novel yourself? 'I had to fabricate three or four scenes at the end, yes,' he concedes. But he anticipates no outraged letters from the Gaskell Society. It has all been done with reverence. When it's a terribly well known book like Pride and Prejudice, you feel like there's no point in doing it unless you've got an angle on it. Wives and Daughters, though, has never been done before, so one's trying to be as transparent as possible, and say - this is what the book is like, folks. Very old-fashioned of me, isn't it?'

Karen - Thanks for that interesting article. Lydia - I didn't make my ironic detachment clear enough. What I meant to express was not what P&P is about but what it is perceived to be about by people who only know the TV adaptation. Personal transformation is not considered serious; big social issues are considered serious. So a movie about saving people from the Holocaust is considered more significant than one about P.T. That is, as I said, people think they have done something important after they have seen the former; after they have seen the latter, they just think they've had a good time. So the star of the former takes on more serious stature from the role he's played, and the star of the latter is viewed mainly as a hunk who hasn't proven himself capable of playing an important role. (For the ultimate example of RF syndrome, look at how Charlton Heston's been viewed in the decades since he made the Ten Commandments and Ben Hur.) People ignore what JA is trying to say, complain that she didn't deal with the important issues of her day like Napoleon, war, and revolution, and the movie is made to appeal to the "growing costume drama fan club", as it says in the article Karen posted, as though JA and George Eliot were just early Danielle Steeles. (These are probably the people who think Strictly Ballroom was just an airy comedy about dancing). And the respective stars reflect these perceptions which have implications for their futu e roles. In my nasty little attribution of petty motivation to RF for choosing Onegin (which of course is all in my own mind) I was hinting that he might have chosen it out of an insecure need to show up CF and thus to buoy himself up to himself (everyone following this?) This is only what we Firthettes would like to think and bears no necessary resemblance to reality. You are right that the starring role does not make RF a better actor, and IMO, he is not b/c of Firthette rule #2, which should actually be rule #1 but I just thought of it, ODB IS THE GREATEST LIVING ACTOR WORKING IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE (AND SOMETIMES FRENCH). But my point is precisely that factors 1-3 contribute to making an actor more famous and getting him juicier roles above and beyond simply his acting ability. Add to this a big promotional pitch, and it's about unbeatable. I was trying to say that any given one of CF's movies in which he did star could have been made from a different angle to enhance the serious issue possibilities, and they then would have been perceived differently and in turn he would be perceived differently and would probably then be getting different roles than he does now. Finally let me remind all that I know nothing about the real motivations and constraints of either RF or CF in their choice of roles, but for what do we live but to speculate groundlessly about ODB and be misunderstood in our turn. Also, I should probably use more emoticons, but then I wouldn't get the chance for so many theme and variations which of course are endlessly fascinating to me.

Thank you Karen for the article. I found it enlightening and depressing at the same time.For some reason ODB doesn't seem to be in the loop. And someone should tell Mr. Davies to latch on to Simon Langton for his director. BTW, I noticed in IMDb that Simon Langton has been directing a project in Germany!! Do you think he has fallen out of favor with BBC? The latter sounds v. political. ~~~~~ Thank you Cymbeline for your opinion....I followed you and found the concepts v. intriguing.And could v. well be valid. What do we know for sure?

but for what do we live but to speculate groundlessly about ODB and be misunderstood in our turn The world according to Mr. Bennet? ;-) No need to resort to emoticons. I understood the purpose of your original post. Colin just hasn't had "that" role on the big screen that would bring him to the forefront. I was just looking at (please don't strike me dead, God) Ralph Fiennes' filmography at the IMDB. He did a couple of TV things (Prime Suspect), then his hideous Heathcliff, another bit of TV, a German film and then bang-zoom-to-the-moon, he was in Schindler's List and then big movies (pretty much) thereafter. Also, he really hasn't a peared in all that many films as has Colin. Colin is not only appearing in lesser-stature films, but many more of same said lesser films. There is probably a corollary in all of that, but I shall end in a disclaimer as well. I know nothing, I hear nothing, but I continue to type out drivel. ;-)

(Murph)I heard a radio ad today for "Waiting In The Wings," Noel Coward's play starring Bacall and Rosemary Harris. I was thinking that Jen might come to the opening, Evelyn? It's on December 3, I think. Thanks Murph for the tip. I shall look for the reviews. I thought it was scheduled to open on the 16th...Noel Coward's birthday. Jennifer might v. well be there, since Summerfolk closed last week. However, she is scheduled to participate in the Noel Coward "do" on Sunday December 6th, along with Elizabeth McG. and a slew of other celebrities.

I hate emoticons but they are useful little buggers and probably should be used more often, at least by me. I am NEVER serious here, except for now.;-) And I am horrified sometimes when people don't see the joke or irony. I'm sure it's in the delivery. Anyway, can't help but enjoy your wicked humor, Cymbeline, as well as appreciate Lidya's earnest defense of our boy.

Simon Langton directed a Rosamunde Pilcher film for German TV station "ZDF". It's a series (can't warm up to it inspite of beautiful English landscape), and usually the actors are German, but this one has almost only English names on the casting list. - According to Langtons filmography he's not a workoholic, no more than one film every two to three years. http://us.imdb.com/Credits?0164112

(Karen)(please don't strike me dead, God) Don't you mean Charlton Heston?

I think people see Colin in a movie but they don't see him. He has the uncanny knack of looking entirely different in each part. Geofrey bore absolutley no resemblence to Darcy. Valmont the same. How many people would say that Wessex looked at all like Simon in Circle Of Friends or Charles in Nostromo, or Paul in Fever Pitch. No matter what role R.F playes he still looks the same. Ralph Finnes playing a role. No other actor I have ever seen has the ability to change his looks that Colin has. That is one of the reasons I look for his movies I want to see what he is going to look like in each role. I want to see MLSF so much, he looks so great in the publicity pics. Edward bears no resemblence to any of the other characters either.

Don't you mean Charlton Heston? No, I was talking to the burning bush next to him. ;-)

(Evelyn) He is really doing PR these days. Let me tell you he looked v. comfortable with that group of women on The View...laughed, joked...at one point gave Star a big smooch... no kidding. I would have paid to see that! I'm glad to hear it, seriously. Good for him for getting behind his projects. He has three good ones coming out, and they deserve to be seen by as wide an audience as possible. I noticed a thaw at the Oscars the year he was nommed for TEP--remember the little homemade sign he held up to the camera, saying hello to "the Ivanov girls"? Also, someone mentioned Ralph's "big break." He was doing a play in London when Steven Spielberg spotted him and cast him in Schindler's. Now if we could only get Steven to the Donmar.;-) Or Sam Mendes. Anybody want to donate her ticket for the cause? ;-) Evelyn, Waiting In The Wings opens "officially" on December 16 (press night), but performances start December 3. I just looked at the website, and they are only getting two days off--Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve. So, I'd bet Jennifer will be back here at some point this month to be with Mom and Dad at the holiday. (Cymbeline) Don't you mean Charlton Heston? (Karen) No, I was talking to the burning bush next to him. ;-) LOL! Or should I say, Holy Moses!;-)

Lucie I asbsolutely agree with everythign you say, a chameleon among actors, the best in my humble opinion. I am sure 2000 is going to be a good year for him and by the end everyone will know him.

I'm late with my comments, but there, I've been so busy with email I couldn't make it to Drool before... (KarenR)About TWINE...Brosnan was too slight of build, etc. I think so too... On the other hand, he was perfect as Thomas Crown. How come we don't have a Drool topic about him? Would it be dead after a few posts, like Mel's? (Evelyn)SPAM MUSEUM...The museum will also feature a gift shop where tourists will be able to buy SPAM merchandise , and sit down for a nice SPAM meal." Now ...Gi and all of you who have received SPAM memorabilia...don't you feel "ahead of the curve"? LOL! I must visit it sometime.

Someone at Ramble in Pemberley posted the RF interview on the View. http://www.pemberley.com/bin/ramble/ramble.cgi?read=11509 He also comments on TEP.

(Gi)How come we don't have a Drool topic about him? Would it be dead after a few posts, like Mel's? That is surprising, I thought there would have been, but no. If there is enough interest, it could be started. I have a feeling that Brosnan listservs already exist, as well as message boards elsewhere.

Another interruption. (Karen)But Andrew Davies is far from a happy man at the moment, and that is because the powers-that-be, in their infinite wisdom, scheduled his four-part adaptation of Wives and Daughters on BBC1 last night slap bang up against Alan Bleasdale's four-part version of Oliver Twist on ITV. Just to mention that each episode of W&D is repeated on BBC2 on the following Saturday.

from what we've heard, it wasn't worth watching the first time! ;-)

(Karen) I have a feeling that Brosnan listservs already exist, as well as message boards elsewhere. Indeed. There are a few good sites about him and a fan club at least, I think. But "we" aren't there :-)

(Gi) But "we" aren't there :-) Very true. Do you want a topic to be created? BTW, everytime one of Brosnan's female co-stars is interviewed, we always hear what a "good kisser" he is. CF's co-stars only seem to mention that he's funny and tells amusing stories. :-(

Saw this at AICN: The oft delayed THE MAN WHO KILLED DON QUIXOTE now looks like it is back on the rails with money from Pathe in France. Gilliam has co-written the script with Tony Grisoni who worked with him on FEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS. Can�t give too much detail on the story aside from saying it is very Pythonesque and covers a lot of ground previously seen in other Gilliam movies (madness, Knights, time travel, lavish visuals, etc.). Johnny Depp is attached to star as Sancho Panza. The film could go ahead as soon as next spring.

A little marketing news item placed by Disney/Miramax with THR: Special DVD editions help explain a lot. The deleted scenes, audio commentary and documentary on Miramax's new collector's series edition of "Shakespeare in Love" help the viewer better understand how the original vague connection to Shakespeare's "Twelfth Night" was made stronger after initial test screenings with a rewritten and reshot goodbye scene between Shakespeare and Viola in the theater; the deletion of a follow-up scene outside the theater; and an altered voice-over as Viola is flailing underwat r. The edition also shows how the removal of two Native Americans who come to greet Viola on the beach in the final scene makes Shakespeare's imagined image of Viola reaching America more vague. ******* (Ordered yesterday as present from family member; couldn't trust her to get right edition) ;-)

HAPPY HANUKKAH, Karen, Adi And all the Firth Fans who celebrate this holiday

Have a good holiday...Karen...Care to tell us what special goodies you're fixing? ~~~~~ Thanks Gi for commenting on the SPAM MUSEUM news item. Hey, I thought that was cute and close to our celebration legacy. Was feeling "put out" that no one commented on it....:-D

CF's co-stars only seem to mention that he's funny and tells amusing stories Perhaps they know better how to behave in public than PB's co's. It seems to me that, unless we enlist a large contingent of Firthettes for a long-term prospective participant-observer study on this vital topic, only Little Cecile can get to the bottom of it.

Thanks, Evelyn. Holiday starts tomorrow night. Am fixing absolutely nothing special, as the only dish associated with this holiday (potato pancakes) would leave an indeliable odor in the house. ;-)

Little Cecile only?! Well, she did get the most interesting of all nuzzles and that's the bottom line. However, CF has had many a leading lady who could, if she so desired, elaborate on his other than standup [comedy] talents. ;-)

Hmmmmmmm. A Spam Mueseum. I will have to go there when I visit Minnesota next summer. Ran into another disbeliever last night. She would not believe that the same man played Darcy (who she was still drooling over, having watched P&P Sunday) is the same actor who played Geoffrey in TEP and Wessex in SIL. Even though Jean tried to tell her it was, I don't think she believed us and won'yuntil she checks the credits. Grrrrrrrrrrr

LOL about the Spam Museum, Evelyn (have just read your post). and sit down for a nice SPAM meal *whoosh!* That was me, running for my life away from the Spam museum. (Karen) 'There was a funny interim period,' he recalls, 'when one of those idiots at the BBC in a high position said... Andrew better watch his mouth. Re: the great Rafe debate He's a good actor but I don't find much variation among his performances. He's a brooding SS guard. He's a brooding map maker. He's a brooding British secret agent who carries an umbrella and hangs around with a girl who wears a really tight black jumpsuit. Last Sunday's NY Times had a long article about him. He met the reporter at his hotel (Four Seasons). Their dining reservation was screwed up and they had to wait at the bar. Ralph's attempt at humor: He told the maitre'd "you mean you're not g ing to clear out the restaurant?" Heh heh heh :-P Am seeing lots of TV commercials for TEOTA now and the superlatives ('the best movie ever made') are choking me, considering how the movie was ripped apart in Britain. (Cymbeline) only Little Cecile can get to the bottom of it (Karen) Little Cecile only?! Well, she did get the most interesting of all nuzzles and that's the bottom line LOL! (Karen) However, CF has had many a leading lady who could, if she so desired, elaborate on his other than standup [comedy] talents. ;-) Keep going...you're on a roll!

Wishing a Happy Chanukah to all those on this list who celebrate the holiday. (Hope the spelling isn't incorrect.)

(Eileen) Ralph's attempt at humor: He told the maitre'd "you mean you're not g ing to clear out the restaurant?" Heh heh heh :-P Yep, that's a real knee-slapper, alright.;-) Ralph would never make it in the Catskills.;-) (Eillen) Am seeing lots of TV commercials for TEOTA now and the superlatives ('the best movie ever made') are choking me, considering how the movie was ripped apart in Britain. Really? I'm disappointed--have actually been looking forward to this one. I like Julianne Moore a lot. I didn't think it opened in Britain yet.

[RF]'s a good actor but I don't find much variation among his performances That's why he's well known; he stars like all those Americans. Perhaps this is the real reason CF is ignored and overlooked. He's too good an actor; he forgets to play himself playing a part. Who's going to equate Darcy-Adrian LeDuc-Jess Clark-Lord Wessex-Geoffrey Clifton-Edward Pettigrew if she isn't paying attention? Look at KB, who's also a good actor, but who certainly makes sure everyone knows who it is in those films. They got their careers started at the same time in the same production, yet look at the difference in notariety (suddenly none of the spellings of that word looks right)

(Cymbeline) Look at KB, who's also a good actor, but who certainly makes sure everyone knows who it is in those films. They got their careers started at the same time in the same production, yet look at the difference in notariety I agree he can be a good actor in the right material and has done some fabulous work (for example, AMITC, HenryV) but he's also done some amazingly bad projects. I was recently stuck on a 12 hour plane flight, was too tired to read, had seen all the other films so turned to Wild, Wild West as a last resort. Oh my, words fail me. I can't say that KB was any worse than the rest of the production but I wonder what posessed him to play this over-the-top villain complete with black, stringy hair and moustac e, twangy Southern accent and no body below the waist. I missed the beginning of the movie so assume this deformity was some type of war injury, but it necessitated that he navigate around in either a wheeled contraption or something that looked like a giant metal spider. It was so mortifying I had to turn it off after about 20 minutes. I guess that's one of the risks of achieving the big name in film - when you're in a piece of crap there's no hiding it. The fact that CF would most likely not choose to do a piece like this is one of the reasons we love him so, IMHO. While I too would like CF to get all the accolades he deserves for his amazing talent, I think a little less notoriety might be a good thing if it can save him from projects like WWW!

Jana - I believe you are conflating two K's - B and K. And that's interesting b/c I've been thinking recently that Kevin Kline is the US answer to CF, that is, as close as we come. I've always liked him a lot, and he's done some really good stuff--have you seen Pirates of Penzance in which he outshone everyone IMO. Plus he sings. But you're right that he makes some dogs and particularly this latest WWW thing which I couldn't bring myself to watch, and coming right on the heels of the lovely MND. None heless the viewer always knows that Kevin Kline is in the film and everyone is familiar with him. Same with old Ken. So why not CF? Intriguing. And now I shall conquer this obsession and go to bed! And you can spell notoriety!

Love Kevin and he outsang Linda by miles...and he is so much nicer on the eyes... Cymbeline, I agree! ...have no idea how to spell notoriety...;)

(Cymbeline) Jana - I believe you are conflating two K's - B and K. And that's interesting b/c I've been thinking recently that Kevin Kline is the US answer to CF, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but actually, they're both in WWW! Kevin Kline is one of the heroes (along with Will Smith) and Kenneth Branagh is the villain. KB is almost unrecognizable with his long, black hair (head and facial) and sans lower extremities so I'm not surprised you didn't notice him in any of the adverts. Can you believe this drivel attracted such talented actors? (Cymbeline) I've always liked him a lot, and he's done some really good stuff--have you seen Pirates of Penzance in which he outshone everyone IMO. I agree, I love K. Kline - he is so versatile! I had the good fortune of seeing him in Pirates many moons ago (gosh, I think it must be approaching 20 years if memory serves.) I recall that KK absolutely stole the show and was such fun to watch as the Pirate King. However I am ashamed to admit that my main memory of the production is being devastated that Andy Gibb was sick and we only got to see the understudy :-). My only defense is that I was a sniveling teenager at the time and thought AG was pret y cute stuff. But after seeing Pirates and getting my first taste of KK, I've been a fan ever since. (Cymbeline) And you can spell notoriety I made sure to spell check it in Word first so you can now call me a big fat cheater :-)

Sorry, gang. I screwed up the closing tag. I hope this fixes it :-(.

I agree with all you have said regarding KK, and was surprised to see that he had landed that role in WWW because I knew the studios were pushing it to be the the hit of the summer. But I must add that even he was not temptation enough for me to see WWW, whereas, had Colin been in it I would have. ;-D

Andy Gibb? He must have replaced T Rex or Rex Reed or (oh yes) Rex Smith. Or was it the other way. Kevin Kline was an incredible Pirate King. I'll never forget him bounding all over the stage. And I'll never forget Linda Ronstadt not being able to sing Gilbert & Sullivan.

Well, Jana, blow me over with a feather. I went down to the video store today, and there was Ken on the cover of WWW big as life, and what was he thinking? I deliberately ignored this movie as hard as I could b/c it hurt me so much to see Kevin in it, and now I feel *much worse*. And Rupert's done Inspector Gadget, and if this trend continues, ODB *will* be the next 007. Well, everything I said about Kevin still goes--as close as we're going to get to CF, and please don't throw your career away on junk. Finally--saw WOF for the first time, and (SPOILER ALERT!) isn't that a poignant little speech he makes about good acting, etc., etc., not being enough, you need to be famous too. And btw how about FP where he's asking Sarah if there isn't anything she's wanted for 18 years, like--an Oscar.

To the powers that be: The response numbers of this topic are rapidly approaching the millenium. May I suggest creating a new one tres pronto?? (Pardon my ???)

Second millenium, surely.

I grant you, I didn't specify which millenium; and the second has much more significance than the first, at least as far as Spring Topics are concerned. I'd hate to have someone lose a witty and information - packed entry just because the Drool Topic runneth over. ;-)

In every conference but Drool I can create new topics...guess you are going to have to wait for Karen to get on this evening or for Heide to see it. I will email them with your suggestion in the meanwhile.

If everybody keeps cool and is distracted elsewhere, no rush. But if we engender one of those hot and heavy debates here, the thing could fill up in no time. So I'd better stop using up valuable responses in order to make commentary about the dirth of responses and just leave it for the other debaters, right? ... ;-)

Sent the letter to both of them - should have it rectified by morning. *grin*

(Cymbeline)...and if this trend continues, ODB *will* be the next 007 LOL! I would love to see that! And since Pierce apparently wants to do theatre now, why don't they exchange roles for a while? ;-D

(KarenR)Do you want a topic to be created? Not if I'll be the only one to post on it...

Cymbeline, thank you for explaining. I misunderstood the tone of your post. On the subject of RF, I have to say that I think he is sucessfull media-wise, but not with the general theatre-going public, because most of his movies have not done very well financially (Oscar & Lucinda, The Avengers, etc.), and even though he is always working, his movies are always small independent films, even those that do well, like TEP. IMO, his success is just a matter of luck, and I am glad that CF does not have to subje t himself to the mindless chatter of tv people like the insufferably conceited Star Jones and the hopelessly insipid Meredith Viera of The View. I like CF well enough to search for him, however scarce the coverage he receives. People ignore what JA is trying to say, complain that she didn't deal with the important issues of her day like Napoleon, war, and revolution This criticism always rattles me, and I think it is levelled at her because she was a woman. Not every contemporary novel deals with the war in the Balkans, or environmental disasters, or all the other social evils of this age, so why is she expected to have done it in her time? Anyway, I think that her choice of themes is one of the reasons why she has remained popular, because they transcend time. In my most recent meeting of JA Society (JASNA), we were discussing the interesting fact that JA's works ha e outlived those of the authors that did write about war and revolution. Jane said herself "Let other pens dwell on guilt and misery". "The quarrels of popes and kings, with wars or pestilences, in every page; the men all so good for nothing, and hardly any women at all-it is very tiresome." (Northanger Abbey). I quite agree, but now I shall end my digression lest I bore you all beyond endurance. Happy Hanukkah Karen!

Oh no, no, no! Not Colin Firth as James Bond. That would be just too depressing. Bond is dreck, it's silly, it's CRAP. "The World Is Not Enough" -- a more appropos title would have been "The World Has Had Enough". To paraphrase e.e. cummings, "james bond's defunct..." The only way I'd watch CF in a James Bond flick would be if played a genius villain opposite Rupert Everett as a gay Bond. Just think of it RE could cavort with his boy(toys) and ofcourse the theme song would be sung by his good friend Madonna.

Thank you, Lidya, for the holiday wish. However, I have to take issue with a couple of comments you made: his movies are always small independent films On the contrary, most if not all of his films are financed by established companies and have been large-budget with known directors and casts. Independent films are just that - done without studio/established financing before production starts, often costing less than $2 million. Onegin, which has had trouble finding a distributor, is probably the only one that qualifies as an indie. JA's works have outlived those of the authors that did write about war and revolution. Rather a broad statement IMO. All depends on the author. Theme is not the crucial thing. The writing is.

It seems to me that I'm always reading that Miramax films are considered independent, even though Miramax is owned by Disney. My meaning was that RF's movies are not in the same league as the movies of Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks. They seem to me to be made outside of the Hollywood establishment, and the themes are not necessarily mainstream. It is just my personal opinion, but I am sorry if I offended anyone.

(Cheryl), The only way I'd watch CF in a James Bond flick would be if played a genius villain opposite Rupert Everett as a gay Bond. Just think of it RE could cavort with his boy(toys) and ofcourse the theme song would be sung by his good friend Madonna. LOL! Please do not ever let that happen!

Moon, which is upsetting you the most: Colin Firth as a Bond villain, Rupert Everett as 007, or Madonna doing the theme song?

Lidya, you are not offending anyone. My comments were offered for clarification, as the term indie is bandied about, many times incorrectly. Miramax films are considered independent, even though Miramax is owned by Disney. Miramax buys many independently produced films and distributes them after they have been made. It is due to that that Miramax got its start and reputation. Miramax continues to do that, but also produces its own films like SiL in conjunction with Universal. Miramax also has the Dimension Films division, run by brother Bob, which makes all those Scream films, and the London-based HAL, which produced Mansfield Park. Nothing produced by Miramax should be considered an indie film, with or without Disney a tached. RF's movies are not in the same league as the movies of Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks Both of these actors have made all sorts of films during their career. I'm not sure what you mean by "league." They are offered the "best" of all scripts, many due to their ability to bring in the audiences. They are among the most bankable actors working today. RF is bankable, but not to the same degree. They seem to me to be made outside of the Hollywood establishment RF's films are mainly financed by Hollywood and its establishment. He usually does not elect to be in ones you would consider "mainstream Hollywood" but you can't get much more Hollywood than Schindler's List (Spielberg), the Avengers, or Prince of Egypt voice.

The new Odds and Ends topic has been created (#127). So whenever this gets filled up (i.e., whatever you attempt to post will not be accepted), we can go there.

(Lidya)It is just my personal opinion, but I am sorry if I offended anyone. Gee....I'm glad to see someone else apologizing...Im always the one, it seems. :-D Lidya, Reminds me of what our former host Nan used to say... "If we all thought alike, we wouldn't have anything to talk about." I disagree constantly with some of my best friends here.... Re: Ralph Fiennes...as you all know...I admire his acting.... So let me say...that I would give anything if Colin could get the roles he's getting. They might not be blockbusters...but they have substance ..scripts, directors, and casts are are all outstanding. I read that next year he will start filming Emile Zola's "Therese Racquin" with Kate Winslett. And what are we doing... "Londinium" with Muriel Hemingway. Rafe has luck? Whatever...we need a dose of it.

I also like the films RF has done. Hollywood is always looking for the token English actor, ODB has not had the luck and he does not care to. Moon, which is upsetting you the most: Colin Firth as a Bond villain, Rupert Everett as 007, or Madonna doing the theme song? Rupi as JB. Unlike you Cheryl, I still like JB.

What was the last thing going through the mind of a fly as it hit the windscreen at 90 mph? ;-)

What was the last thing going through the mind of a fly as it hit the windscreen at 90 mph? Oh s---t

...or...That's me, all over!

ROFLOL Marcia, I like that one.

'tis a very old joke, but I think of it every time one hits just where my focal point is on the window...!

What was the last thing going through the mind of a fly as it hit the windscreen at 90 mph? } His butt. ;-)

I had to find out what labradors look like. I did a search, and came across a pondsides labrador: http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Park/1924/labworld.html

Liked this image from that site! ;-)

I had to find out what labradors look like. I did a search, and came across a pondsides labrador: http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Park/1924/labworld.html

Yes, thank you, Renate, we've heard you the first time... ;-P ************** And the first prize goes to Meggin. (Hi! Is it a chance return visit, or do you always lurk here? ;-))

(Hi! Is it a chance return visit, or do you always lurk here? ;-)) } Hi! Uh, a combination of both, I suppose. Our blocking software at work won't let me get to this site and family concerns don't allow me the opportunity to get on-line very often at home. I usually get here about one weekend a month and wade through several hundred messages, keeping up with ODB. And the first prize goes to Meggin. Can't wait to hear what it is! ;-)

Blocking software??? You mean we are Net-Nannied? Adult-checked? And the first prize goes to Meggin. Can't wait to hear what it is! ;-) uh...maybe you don't want to know...there is not a list for that, yet...

...but, yours was the best answer...LOL !

I agree Meggin. SLOL

(Arami) Yes, thank you, Renate, we've heard you the first time... ;-P Grrrrrrrrrrrr ....wuff... SNAP! :o)=)

Emma Thompson had a baby girl. This was in the notice: "The parents had no immediate idea of a name for the child. 'At the moment we are calling her Jane.com,' Wise said in a statement."

Interrupted Evelyn's breakfast with this news: Ralph Fiennes has won the best male actor award at this year's European Film Awards held in Berlin on Saturday. The British thesp was rewarded for his portrayal of three generations of Jews in A Taste of Sunshine. The Hungarian film, which will be released in the UK early next year, also won best screenplay for writers Istvan Szabo and Israel Horowitz.

Cute article about the new millenium dates (2000 vs 2001) comparing it to the controversy in newspapers in 1899. http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/lifestyle/top_review.html?in_review_id=234362&in_review_text_id=182982 A couple of funny lines: The New York Times, too, thundered away in 1899. Of the Kaiser, who had decided Germany would inaugurate the 20th century at the beginning of 1900, it remarked: "The German Emperor, apparently, must stand in solitary grandeur as the only man of any prominence who cannot count up to 100." For my part, I side with an anonymous correspondent of the Literary Digest on 30 December, 1899. "The disquieting thought is that in 100 years it will all be forgotten, and some 'letter to the editor' will start the whole whirl ... going again."

Interrupted Evelyn's breakfast with this news: Ralph Fiennes has won the best male actor award.... Isn't that nice news to wake up to?....I'm happy for "Sunshine"... Hey, we're close to a distributor in the US.This news might just max it. also won best screenplay for writers Istvan Szabo and Israel Horowitz. I guess in Europe they don't mind if a screenplay goes three hours. That's been the big hang-up in the US.

Emma Thompson had a baby girl. This was in the notice: "The parents had no immediate idea of a name for the child. 'At the moment we are calling her Jane.com,' Wise said in a statement." ] I sorta like it. Jane.com, it's very Millenialish. Well they could name her Darcy Wise? on second thought, perhaps Jane.com Wise is better;)

Well they could name her Darcy Wise? And Ken Foolish--he lost her.

Evelyn, I don't know if Ralph Fiennes necessarily has had better luck than Colin Firth, but he (Fiennes) apparently has a better agent.

Evelyn, I don't know if Ralph Fiennes necessarily has had better luck than Colin Firth, but he(Fiennes) apparently has a better agent. Allison tells us that in the UK agents have a different role...they negotiate and finalize contracts...but do not solicit projects for the actors. The actor does that through his own connections.

I know I'm hopelessly late, but I tried to watch The Avengers two evenings ago... What crap! I rewound it after the (first?) storm hit Steed. On the other hand, saw TWINE last evening and enjoyed it. I know it's the same ol'tricks, but well made, and Pierce is great. Lightly built? Nah!

Lord Puttnam is all over the news with his campaign to save historic cinemas. No mention whatsoever of his "final" film....anywhere...

(Gi) I know it's the same ol'tricks, but well made Title song was truly forgettable though. Wasn't Sophie's part great? Denise Richards didn't look old enough to have a college degree let alone have a Ph.d.

(Karen) Denise Richards didn't look old enough to have a college degree let alone have a Ph.d. LOL! to true - I really liked the movie (what can i say, i'm a Big 007 fan) and found DR to be really distracting in the movie. Poor thing just cant act. Sophie, and her part, were great. But PB was definately what kept my attention during the movie. High Droolablity factor there. :-)

Evelyn, my emails not working at the moment, did you know that Summerfolk is to returning to the National for a short run of 16 performances only, from February, 10th. (by public demand) I wonder who will play Varvara? unless Jennifer is managing to do two plays at once. (from Albermarle Theatre Website)

FLASH S

FLASH SUNSHINE NOMINATED FOR 14 AWARDS The Genie awards of the best in Canadian films were announced today. "Sunshine" -- 14 nominations: Picture, actor, two for actress, two for supporting actor, two for supporting actress, director, art direction/production design, costume design, original score, overall sound, sound editing . Jennifer Ehle and Rosemary Harriswere both nominated for Best Actress. http://www.canoe.ca/JamMovies/dec7_genies.html). ~~~~~ Big Chardonnay night for evelyn! ~~~~~~~~ Don't know how Jennifer can be in two productions at once...and no one can play Vavara like she!! Big year for ODG..when plays are closing left and right for "lack of interest". (the latest Anna Weiss with Catherine Mc Cormack..closing after four weeks.Was scheduled to go til the end of Feb)....hers are returning my popular demand. GO JENN!

Sure enough....The Albemarle website says: SUMMERFOLK returning "by popular demand" Feb. 10th for 16 performances only. They include Jennifer in the cast. How can she perform in two plays at once? I'd like to see Jamie Dee (who won ES award do that!!) (evelyn....who is still bitter)

Great News Evelyn, I am really looking forward to seeing this film, it sounds wonderful. The whole cast sound wonderful!! You said 2000 would be Jennifer's year!! I am so pleased.

(Evelyn)...in the UK agents have a different role...they negotiate and finalize contracts...but do not solicit projects for the actors. The actor does that through his own connections. In which case, Ralph Fiennes may well have better connections.

(Evelyn)...in the UK agents have a different role.. I was quoting Allison.

What great news about JE and RH! Now if we could just see them get some Oscar noms. With all the noms/awards Sunshine has received in Europe and now Canada, I would have thought it would be getting a Christmas release in the U.S. and a big Oscar push. That pic of JE and RF in the bath with the children looks interesting. Wonder if she had any better luck igniting some sparks with him than his other recent leading ladies have;-)

Before everyone gets so excited as to forget where they are, a reminder: Don't try to post response #2000 -- you will probably lose your message unless you've backed it up!!!

(Susan) Wonder if she had any better luck igniting some sparks with him than his other recent leading ladies have;-) LOL!!

I was quoting Allison. Who is NOT an expert on these matters:-)

Evelyn, great news for Sunshine and JE! When will be it released? If they do it quickly, it may have a chance at the Oscars.

You might be interested to see some of the behind-the-scenes doings for the Oscars. Here are the important dates: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/oscar/calendar.asp And here's the weekly guide to viewing films that the studios WANT to be considered for Oscars in ANY category: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/oscar/