Got up at 2:00 in the morning to watch the weekend edition of Entertainment Tonight because they were doing Holiday Releases. Yes, they showed about 15 seconds of SiL but NO Colin!! Just that ridiculous emphasis on GP and Ben Affleck, with a good measure of Joe Fiennes thrown in. Boo Hiss!!

Gi) Here's my chat-up line for CF (first attempt): "Excuse me, didn't you play Mr. Bingley in Pride and Prejudice? I thought you were splendid!" Winter) Oh Mr. Firth! I'm a big fan of your work! I especially loved your performance in Far From the Madding Crowd!' Winter...Gi ...you are the winners so far. LOL. And I bet Colin would LOL too.

Laura you are right about my being a cheerleader for Colin, I guess. I would say that I am for Derek Jakobi too. Incidently, Derek could use a few votes too. I have been an avid fan of his longer than Colin.

Went away for the week-end. Flirter's block on chat up line. Have been acting the strong silent type. Well, silent anyway. Virtual Jennifer about to run off with better flirter/man/-looking man. Pressure building....... I will check out premiere of SiL, and take my thigh detector. (The range is from flaccid and mishapen - 0 Firth Units - to firm and rippling - 1 Firth Unit.) I'll get back to you if it bleeps.

I agree - I think Winter and Gi are nose to nose headed for the finish line. But let's not forget to throw Nick Hornby in there too though it would take someone stunningly near-sighted to mistake him for DB. You can keep your thigh detector wrapped up for now, Ben. (Can this used on women too? God forbid.) Premiere dates appear to be changing. I'll track you down later.

WAIT! I've got another one! "*Ahem* excuse me.... but I just have to ask...didn't I once see you in a production of Jack Frost?!"

Now there's a guide that suggests what to say when you bump into a celebrity.(Ben, this one's for you and anyone else who was tongue-tied as to what to say to Colin as an opener). Check out: The Sunday Times : Style Section The Art of Schmoozing

Ben, I have two possible chat up lines for you to Ms. Ehle: Ben: Have been acting the strong silent type. Well, silent anyway. 1)If that's the case, I suggest you stalk about the room a bit and then say, "you must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love you." OR 2)"Umm... excuse me, but I couldn't help but notice your accent. It's North Carolinan isn't it?"

Is JE from North Carolina? (not really a fan)

They showed about 15 seconds of SiL but NO Colin!! Just that ridiculous emphasis on GP and Ben Affleck,with a good measure of Joe Fiennes thrown in. Boo Hiss!! (Karen) It's all about bankability and marketing and image. Selling the product. Presumably GP/BA are a "hot" couple in the US. And JF is Shakespeare (and Rafe's younger bro)! I was reading a tongue- in- cheek article about "celebrities" and gaining an "image" which sells. CF's got it all wrong! Gets married (wrong), very privately (very wrong)to a non-celebrity girlfriend (wrong again) and although now has beautiful clever photogenic wife ( almost right) then completely disappears with aforesaid wife and is never seen in public (wrong) and seems very happily married (wrong, wrong). It also helps to have a dysfunctional background, the odd public row with partner/spat with the aw, and an ex-drink/drugs problem! I tell you, he hasn't got a clue! Chat up lines....I think Winter and Gi have hit the mark! Appeal to his sense of humour! I remember reading (I'm a great reader!!) an interview in which CF talked quite appreciatively about people coming up to him and making comments like "you're much better looking on the telly", "what have you you done to your hair?", "I don't want it (his autograph),it's only for a friend". Obviously he's not accustomed to adulation!! All I can think of is.. "Gee, I LOVE Ralph Fiennes/Joe Fiennes (delete as applicable). Weren't you in one of his movies?"

thanks all for your appreciation of my chat-up line... I can only wish to one day meet the man, use the line, have him fall for it, then burst out laughing and tell him there's a dozen women who'd be ready to use it too if they were the ones to meet him first... Then I'd bring him over to Drool and we'd all have a Mega-Party :-)) Anyway, Bethan, your line is even more wicked! Good for you! LOL!

Okay, I've come up with a great chat up line for either Firth bros. "Hold me, Thrill me, kiss me... You show me your knickers, I'll show you mine" said very huskily! (with flu and pnuemonia, voice is very husky now!) Ha! Putty in my hands;)

(Bethan) It also helps to have a dysfunctional background, the odd public row with partner/spat with the aw, and an ex-drink/drugs problem! I tell you, he hasn't got a clue! So right, Bethan. And it would probably help if he'd be photographed in public with another woman, preferably a model/actress but I'm sure one of us would do in a pinch which brings us back to the chat up lines again... ...I shall definitely remember "You're much better looking on the telly." Evelyn, what are some of those lines to say to a celebrity? I'm too lazy to look it up. Cheryl, JE spent a great deal of her childhood in North Carolina (is that right, Evelyn?). Her father is a Carolinian writer and I've even read one of his boosk though I can't remember which one...hillbillies, strong woman, unforgiving patriarch. Sorry you're still sick, Laura.

Winter) Re: Chat up line for JE: Umm... excuse me, but I couldn't help but notice your accent. It's North Carolinan isn't it?" Don't think I would try that one, Ben. Although she doesn't hide the fact that she was born in Winston-Salem NC.Educated on both sides of the pond. Went to Central School for Speech and Drama (alum: Judi Dench).Has lived in England for the past 11 years.Dad, John Ehle, regional writer of NC.Wrote the book and screen play "Journey of Austust Moon" (Miramax and a lovely movie)His prose is v. lyrical remind me of Michael Ondadje. No critic has ever detected a NC accent and I did not either when speaking to her. She has never made an American mov e.Her mother , Rosemary Harris , who is British, is a great stage actress both in the Westend and on Broadway. She has played the lead in" Streetcar...."with a southern accent.

(Heide) Evelyn, what are some of those lines to say to a celebrity? I'm too lazy to look it up. Actually, it's a cute article. The authors say that celebrities want to be treated like normal people. Don't just comment on how much you liked their last film.(Old chestnut) One comes to mind: "My mother is going to LA next week, she likes sushi, do you have any restaurant that you would recommend? Don't try to make a splash. If you know their hobby capitalize on it. John Travolta likes flying, Kevin Costner likes billiards. When I spoke to JE, I told her about the website. She had not seen it, but gave me the impression she was going to rush out and buy a computer and log on. (Although deep inside she might have been thinking "Get outta mylife!)

No critic has ever detected a NC accent and I did not either when speaking to her The chat up line was not meant to be serious. It's just a hilarious scenario. She'd immediately think Ben was a master linguist, fall for him on the spot, and they could run away and have a torrid love affair before she realizes that we gave him all the info. on her life story. But really- as a native English speaker, people have been able to pick up major subtleties of my speech, and say, "Are you by any chance of Southeast Asian descent?" (and I am, but by 2 generations) BTW -- which of CF's movies portray his real accent? Anyone know? Is it FP?

which of CF's movies portray his real accent? Anyone know? Is it FP? FP is definitely not his accent. In FP he was portraying a Nick Hornby character who assumes a sub cockney twang to hide his middle class roots and to empathise with other Arsenal supporters. CF says that at school he spoke with his native Hampshire accent. I don't think he has ever been asked to reproduce this publicly! I always assumed that, Nornby like, the Hampshire accent was assumed. CF has told us that his Dad went to public (ie private) school and Cambridge, so we can assume the family accent is RP. The few times we have heard CF speak with his own voice eg at the BBC awards ceremony, he sounded just like Mr Darcy .......sighhhhhhhhh!

For Nornby read Hornby!!

(Heide) JE spent a great deal of her childhood in North Carolina Thanks for the lesson. I'm from NC too, and I'll check out Mr. Ehle's work. And about those accents. I'm also from Atlanta. I haven't lived either place for 20 years, but I can still tell which state (of the entire South) someone's from, and often which part. It takes longer if someone's gone away to school, as I did. But eventually, the truth will out. Hmmm. If I met CF, I'd tell him he was much calmer than the first time we met. No matter what is going on (unless our airplane is crashing) it would be true. So we'd talk about Bordeaux and Valmont more or less, taking my cues from him. Then I could go on to link whatever he said to various other performances I'd seen. I could handle that brilliantly, thanks to you all, and he'd think I was either a nutcase or an informed young woman of remarkably good taste and breeding. Mostly I'd ask him questions about whatever he said. "Getting older and wiser, for better and worse" is always a good topic, as long as the person hasn't become a failure. I never hold people involuntarily. In fact, the opposite; people generally think I'm stand-offish. Athogether, not "traditionally" sexy. But it would make both of us happy. And somehow, that seems to make an impression ;-)

(Allison), CF has told us that his Dad went to public (ie private) school and Cambridge, so we can assume the family accent is RP. RP? Might that be rather posh? With Colin my best chances would be if my husband and I were to meet him with Livia. My Guido and his Livia would break into Italian and I would seize the day and maybe hint at the many times I have saved his life by talking my husband out of challenging him to a duel! (heehee) (Hopefully Guido would take pity on Livia and not seize the moment!)

RP? Might that be rather posh? Received Pronunciation, I think. That is Standard English. I would not describe that as "posh". It is just english as spoken by educated english people who do not have a regional accent.

Okay, re: chat up lines. shouldn't we feign indifference that way, he would be more taken in by us? When one brings up the celebrity, they back away. Right? So I say, play on their one weakness, love for women! and then when one snags them, and brings them home, hide all the videos of them quickly! RE: accent and pronounciation: I think the accent of him in Dutch Girls is probably more closely his accent.

The few times we have heard CF speak with his own voice eg at the BBC awards ceremony, he sounded just like Mr Darcy .......sighhhhhhhhh! (Allison) I think the accent of him in Dutch Girls is probably more closely his accent. (Laura) I would say his natural accent is definitely Mr Darcy but not quite as assertive, with a very slight tendency to drawl! But definitely RP. He said somewhere that both his parents had a private education, so he would have an RP background....although not all offspring speak like ma and pa! It's interesting though how some actors have very different private/public accents. Does this apply in the US? Do actors change their accents to fit different roles? And what is the equivalent of RP.....Boston? Talking about accents, I am reliably informed that the ATA video (oops, no acronyms....A Thousand Acres) will be in UK Blockbusters from Dec 7th, so we will have the chance to hear a Mid-West accent! I m actually looking forward to seeing ATA...the last time I saw contemporary CF (as opposed to CF in old movies) was well over 18 months ago! It's like war-time rations (and definitely a case for more TV work!!)

Well, I live in Boston and the whole country makes fun of our accent. You know Pahk the cah in Hahvahd Yahd. and of course my favorite Rebeccer:)

It's actually quite a relief to escape an accent-sensitive environment. I don't know much about the accents in the U.S., and that is refreshing too. (I can tell broad areas apart, and having lived in Boston for three years, I know that one pretty well. BTW, someone told me that Virginians thought they spoke the best English in the U.S.) In England, I reveal my origins as soon as I open my mouth. As for The Firth, I remember his accent as RP too. No great surprise. Equally, as a impressionable teenager who wants to fit in, it's completely natural that he would have had a Hampshire burr while in school. As a London football fan, one developed the same bilingual ability.

( Bethan) And what is the equivalent of RP.....Boston? I am not a linguist, but I believe there is an East Coast accent which the British actors call "trans Atlantic" that comes closest to RP in UK. It dos not have a regional accent...Ivy League, but not Boston. Ralph Fiennes did a masterful job with that accent in "Quiz Show" when he played Charles Van Doren.In fact it was later I learned he was British. Re: CF's accent in ATA...it's rather mid-west subtle. Some people objected, I thought it was pretty good...but then I live in the Southwest. Glad you are finally getting to see ATA, Bethan. Good, now we can discuss it sometime soon on #98.Thanks to Karen, some of us now own it!!

The RP equivalent in the US is called SAE-- Standard American English. (I have a degree in linguistics) It's distributed over a wide array of regions. The West Coast and Mountain areas speak it, and some parts of the East Coast as well. Broadcasters on the news are the best example (NOT Dan Rather--He's a Texan I think). But, let's say someone like Bernie Shaw from CNN.

Thank you Winter....didn't realize you were so educated on accents. Please tell us more. I have a question: Why do British actors capture American accents so easily (Jeremy Northam in Mimic) and American actors can't grasp the British accent. Did anyone see William Hurt in "Jane Eyre"? (gag, gag).BTW don't they call accents "dialects" in UK? On a different vein:(Drum Roll) We have just heard that 'Bedrooms and Hallways" Jennifer's new film won The New British Cinema Award from The Guardian and Channel Four at the London Film Festival tonight:-)

So much for my Virginian story. (I suppose I was influenced by James Stewart. Not a bad voice to have, if one was to choose.) The Van Doren accent is what an American friend of mine here in New York calls "Locust Valley lock-jaw". (Talk through gritted teeth and it begins magically to appear!) It's more an upper-class American than RP, I would say. Wander into the Knickerbocker club and you will be surrounded by it. How say you, Winter? p.s. I have failed not only to chat up La Sorceresse Ehle, who is even now slinking away with the wretched show-off who managed to pick her up, but I have not yet adjudicated the Firth chat-up competition. I will do so v. shortly. p.p.s. Learning the JE is also a Southern Belle only adds to her charm. I can see her in the garden of some colonial mansion. She is lying in a hammock, her bare shoulders caressed by the Spanish moss. She sighs whistfully. Suddenly, she starts....in the distance, is that the approaching sound of horses' hooves? Excitedly, and picking up her beautiful silk (low cut) dress, she walks towards the stables. "Whoooa, Xanthus!" I say, pulling back the stallion. "Steady!". My shirt dripping with sweat, I dismount,and....etc.,etc.

hi Evelyn. Didn't notice your message. I think British actors may be better at American accents than the converse because they're more exposed to it. We get so much American telly when young, and so many American films, that it's easier for us. What's "Bedrooms and Hallways", by the way?

(Ben) What's "Bedrooms and Hallways", by the way? It's Ms. Ehle's new film .A small indie directed by Rose Troche, an American, (from NYC!). Was screened at Cannes, and at Edinburgh Film Festival. She co-stars with Kevin McKidd. Her website features the plot under Articles segment.Did you manage to catch "Wilde"?Like it? Liked your fan fiction of "Lizzie on the Plantation"....must have that wet shirt too!! One of the reasons British actors aren't popular in the US is because people have a problem understanding them.Our real exposure to the British accent is through Masterpiece Theatre on PBS and now on A&E.Of course, now that they are doing crossovers with American accents......I am eager to hear how CF fans in UK like his accent in A Thousand Acres. I felt his sonorous voice went flat in the process; much prefer Mr. Darcy . (Sigh)

Evelyn: Why do British actors capture American accents so easily (Jeremy Northam in Mimic) and American actors can't grasp the British accent. As much as I love Jeremy, I have to say the accent made me cringe. His 'R's were a bit more stressed than necessary. But Ben's right. The UK sees a lot more US telly than vice-versa. Maybe the new BBC America channel can change things! Ben: The Van Doren accent is what an American friend of mine here in New York calls "Locust Valley lock-jaw". Is that anything close to the Mr. Howell character's accent on 'Gilligan's Island'? (Familiar with the show?) How say you, Winter? winter is fine. has determined that new man in life is Mr. Thesis. To be proceeded by Mr. lit review, and Sir Oral Exam. ;-) Ben!! ROTFLOL!!! I see we have a closet romance novelist in our midst! Shall we open up a fanfic board for the continuing saga of "Ben Broadbent: Master horseman, scholar, ladies' man"? Evelyn: Our real exposure to the British accent is through Masterpiece Theatre on PBS and now on A&E. Yeah-- and that's why most Americans associate the British accent with high culture, and thus, we never get the daily, mundane exposure to that accent as the Brits do with ours. The only ones who can imitate that accent are usually either a)naturally skilled at doing accents and/or b)exposed to British media in households that watched Masterpiece or A&E.

Sorry

AGH!! Can someone please help unitalicize?!! Thanks much.

"Un" I say!! BTW, Mr. Powell on Gilligan's Island! Perfect example of lockjaw!

Also, Boston's too general. Depends on what part of Boston you're talking about. (A Southie's accent would not be very posh.) Regarding Colin's midwestern accent in ATA (sorry) but it was just OK. I've found that Branagh is excellent with his accents. He was perfection in Dead Again and I've seen clips of his newest (Celebrity) and his Woody Allen is incredible (not just the voice but the mannerisms and the way he moves, stands, etc.)

Actually, South Boston is given a bad rap, but Revere or the North shore accents are much worse. I don't think my Boston accent (Although I don't think I have an accent!), is terrible. But I can go right into that Good Will Hunting fiasco of an accent when need be! I think I sound quite posh;) Coming from posh section of Boston and all!

it begins magically to appear! Ben, you brilliant thing! I thought there was no one left in the whole English speaking world who wouldn't split their infinitives. Thanks, pal. Most refreshing. Winter: To be proceeded by Mr. lit review However, according to my linguistic information (which may be inadequate), verb "proceed" appears to be intransitive: as a non-native speaker I am thus at a loss to grasp your meaning. If it is an idiom, please explain! I'm always keen to expand my horizons. Thanks!

Arami, you're almost as much as a grammar Nazi as I am. ;-) Winter presumably meant either "prEceeded by" or "followed by". (I'm sure you can look after yourself, Winter, but you're not around so I felt bound to defend you.) BTW, to return to another topic, I hadn't noticed that there was an English actor in Mimic, so his accent can't have been too bad. (Or my ear is.) Anyway, I checked out the movie's website, and low and behold this bloke HAS played an Englishman before, in "The Net", where he was.........A BADDIE! You see! It's a law of nature. All Englishmen in Hollywood films are baddies and almost all baddies are Englishmen. It's because of this that I have decided NOT to have a stellar Hollywood career - I feel I would be typecast, you see. (:-)). Any news on the SiL premiere here? I need to know if I'm to fulfill my assignment.

Arami, you're almost as much as a grammar Nazi as I am. ;-) Oooooooooooooh, I just love a man who can pay a grand complement to a lady! ;-) (Altogether now: Wot? Arami, you - a l..... ? ;-P) You didn't use to be a teacher by any chance, Ben, did you? Or still are? Or something equally as venerable?

Oooops! It should be: all together... Yes, I know: it can happen to the best of us...

Hmmm... Ben, I guess the credentials as Professor of Economics is completely lost on Arami;p And at Columbia U, yet! split infinitives are horrible, but sometimes one must do it:)

To complement Ben's story, or is that "compliment"? ;-)... Alighting from his faithful Xanthes, steam rising from his overheated flanks, the stranger approached the breathless lady. As hard as she tried to hide her trembling as the white shirt loomed closer and closer, her quivering only intensified as his manly gaze dropped lower and lower to her heaving.... Oops, better save this for fan fic. All this talk about dialects and accents, I only know I love the sonorous timbre of his voice. American, British, makes no difference. A striking example for me - "Tis no very striking resemblance of your own character, I am sure." Quick, quick - what scene?

(Ben) I checked out the movie's website, and low and behold this bloke HAS played an Englishman before, in "The Net", where he was.........A BADDIE! That" bloke"( Jeremy Northam)was also Mr. Knightly(sigh) in" Emma"A good guy.

Thanks for defending, Ben. It was just a slip of the wrist and the fact that in my particular US regional English, 'proceed' and 'preceed' or homonyms (i.e, 'Marry' and 'Mary' or homonyms too)-- but now I know why I don't use my degree... Jeremy Northam was alright. Still a bit much on the R's.. I'm standing by that. But one of the best contemporary Brits I've seen do a perfect American accent was Olivia D'Abo (Karen on the TV show 'Wonder Years'). Anyone know how I can find out the SiL premeire date/site in LA? I'd be willing to take pictures and send to 'em someone with a scanner. I'm sure he'd at least show up here, since it would be close to Christmas and he'd most likely want to see his son.

Ok, ok, I've been waiting for the obvious line, but no one has claimed it. "Playmaker is my favorite film in the world! I give copies of it as gifts."

"It's the perfect gift--no one has ever seen it!"

"Playmaker is my favorite film in the world! I give copies of it as gifts." "It's the perfect gift--no one has ever seen it!" Give this woman a cigar!! (people here are wondering what I'm laughing about)

Hey, perhaps Heide and Ben could collaborate on a story for fan fic. One can't leave a heaving.... just sitting there!

Has anyone noticed that in this group when someone starts a thread of thought the posts get better 'n better as we go along. The first chat -up lines were luke-warm (mine included), then we got to Moon and Winter's (notice Grammarians that I am only using the last proper noun as possessive:-). Now, Cheryle with Playmaker, LOL. (Cheryle, I think you better stick to talking about France and burgundy wines.) Safer.

A slip of the wrist, yes, mine too. Two slip-ups in one post, oh, my, oh, my! The only excuse I have is that I'm working all hours on something important, eyes glued to my pc, and am exceptionally tired. Am taking brief breaks looking up you lot here for fun and relaxation, so don't tease me for I have no strength to retaliate. Not nice to kick a foreigner when she's flat on her face, besides it's probably against the government rules of discrimination :-P notice Grammarians that I am only using the last proper noun as possessive:-). Ah, but is it Moon and Winter's line (one line shared by the two)? Or Moon's and Winter's lines (each has a line)? Or Moon and Winter's lines (both share more than one line?) Seriously, I'd welcome a clarification from native speakers, please! Thanks muchly in advance. Btw, sorry if I missed Professor Ben's credentials somehow... split infinitives are horrible, but sometimes one must do it:) There is no compulsion as far as I'm aware. (And now despise me if you dare!:)) Quick, quick - what scene? What a question - Netherfield ball - The Dance, of course. I'm not that unconscious... ;-P

(evelyn) then we got to Moon and Winter's (notice Grammarians that I am only using the last proper noun as possessive:-). "Moon and Winter's (lines, understood...[spoken English only]) I should hope each one has her own line :-). On these boards, I (and others, I notice) post the way I speak...which is different from standard written English.( Sentences are not always complete...sometimes just a phrase will do.)And with some of us the manner we express ourselves can be regional. Confusing, I know...but there it is. God forbid, I should write a business letter or essay in the manner I post. I would be considerate illiterate

A slip of the wrist, yes, mine too. Two slip-ups in one post, oh, my, oh, my! The only excuse I have is that I'm working all hours on something important, eyes glued to my pc, and am exceptionally tired. Am taking brief breaks looking up you lot here for fun and relaxation, so don't tease me for I have no strength to retaliate. Not nice to kick a foreigner when she's flat on her face, besides it's probably against the government rules of discrimination :-P notice Grammarians that I am only using the last proper noun as possessive:-). Ah, but is it Moon and Winter's line (one line shared by the two)? Or Moon's and Winter's lines (each has a line)? Or Moon and Winter's lines (both share more than one line?) Seriously, I'd welcome a clarification from native speakers, please! Thanks muchly in advance. Btw, sorry if I missed Professor Ben's credentials somehow... split infinitives are horrible, but sometimes one must do it:) There is no compulsion as far as I'm aware. (And now despise me if you dare!:)) Quick, quick - what scene? What a question - Netherfield ball - The Dance, of course. I'm not that unconscious... ;-P

Bloody hell. An experience I'd rather not go through again. My aging mother, who, madly, is doing another degree, this one in psychology, has to write an essay about the effectiveness (or otherwise) of "pop" self-help books. They (my parents) are coming to New York in the New Year, and since the books are cheaper here, I said I'd get them for her. So I've just been to Barnes and Noble and given the girl behind the desk a massive pile of books with earnest, imploring titles like "Women who love to much..", "Facing love addiction...", "Nasty people". I don't mean to criticise these books and I should probably read some of them myself. It was just a bit much having to put up with the smile on the face of the saleswoman, especially when she turned over "How to satisfy a woman every time and have her beg for more." "It's for a friend," I said, rather weakly. "Right." The smile didn't go away. A quite different subject: I'm an occasional collector of mixed metaphors, and someone on the RoP site has recently coined a beautiful example - she said that she ought not to be "branded with the same brush" as someone else. This must rank with my top two, (i) "I wouldn't trust him with a bargepole", (a friend), and (ii) "sailing a bit close to the bone" (heard on the radio). Any others? Best chat-up line to be announced v.v. shortly - promise. Tried hard to follow up "Plantation Romance" with JE ('ripping the thin silk of her nightgown...', or 'feeling his hot breath on her shoulder..' were a couple of openings that occurred to me). But not really cut out for it. Everythings much more vivd in my mind's eye than on the page, somehow. :-).

Hey, it's All Mushy at work again!

Can I start campaigning for mine?????

TV ALERT Just posted on the P&P Board. Tonight at 10:pm PBS Channel 36 (don't know where) will air MOTM Monday Nov.23 at Midnight PST Channel 24 (SHOW) will air AZ If these channels sound familiar...go to it...crank up the VCR. We hope to discuss both films in the near future on #98.

That's in Providence, it started last week! I do get it because I live about 8 miles from Providence!

Ben, LOL! I'd say that the effectiveness of those mass produced self-help books and other suchlike items of similar appeal is best felt in the bank balances of their authors and sellers...

(Ben) I'm an occasional collector of mixed metaphors, One of my faves used in rural Oklahoma which I have never heard before is: (Pulling the wool over my eyes) "I just didn't fall off the turnip truck"

Self help books are the Devil's own work. I confess to reading them in my early 20s, so I speak from experience. I'm sure no one else here can. Generally I read them in the bookstore because a)you can skim, b)I'm a speedy reader and c)once is enough. I'm quite interested in your mother's findings. I've thought a great deal about them and their effect on American culture through their audience: historically white middle-class women, now including women of color. Thousands of ways to articulate dissatisfaction and to hold someone else responsible are displayed like a cheap buffet. It's fascinating how unhappiness and desperation have been expressed since the 16th century (ok, it's tangential to my current novel, is how I know.) The other tack is to convince readers th y're responsible for things they can't do anything about. Either way, they're vampiric. (Here I hop off my soapbox, pick it up, and sally forth, a little encumbered by the soapbox.)

(Pulling the wool over my eyes) "I just didn't fall off the turnip truck" Sorry, I must be more tired (or dim) than I realized - I'm not quite sure I get it. But if we're expanding into wit and wisdom of the nations of the world, here's one from my youth in yet another country: "I didn't fall from under a magpie's tail." How's that? ;-)

Oh, shhhhhh.........t, look at that date again. I told you something's afoot!

Feb 7 2036? What is this? The Millenium Bug? Dr Who? Just to warn you lot - this morning (Feb 7 2036), whizzing down the Kings' Road in my fusion-powered motor, I noticed a bent figure making his way slowly towards Sloane Square. Barely able to place one foot in front of the other, he shuffled along only with the help of a Zimmer frame, which he gripped with gnarled, arthritic hands. Whisps of white hair lay untidily across his scabeous old head. Eventually, he drew level with the "Bill Gates Cinema of The People". Straining, he looked up and noticed the ti les: "Festival of Late Elizabethan Cinema. This week: 'Price and Prejudice'." He caught the eye of the doorman. "Them were the days, eh Mr Firth?", said the doorman, "them were the days."

Doncha just love our getting a jump on the twenty-first century? OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH, I finally saw the Shakespeare in Love trailer in the theater last night (before Elizabeth--a double dose of Joe Fiennes and Geoffrey Rush). Was carefully studying costumes in both and the general *build* of the respective actors. Regarding the Girth of Firth, he's wearing ever so much more than most of the others in both films, but he does have a rather filled out jowly face in this one. As Moon said, Colin's name is mentioned third, right behind JF and before the long list of Academy Award winners/nominees. It even gives the implication that Affleck's was for acting by sandwiching him in between Rush and Dench. There's a little scene (not shown on ET) where Colin asks if "she is Fertile?" and then the other guy comments that she (Viola-GP) can be returned if she isn't. "More, more, I'm still not satisfied."

Aha - females as chattels sort of thing. Ben, your vision of the old Firth shuffling along King's Road is too painful... surely he'll be able to afford a motorized Zimmer frame? But most likely he'll be warming his old bones in sunny Italy surrounded by scores of his children, grandchildren, and their own bambinos.

(Karen) Regarding the Girth of Firth, he's wearing ever so much more than most of the others in both films, but he does have a rather filled out jowly face in this one. I suppose we'd rather have the Girth of Firth than the Dearth of Firth. Still, I insist it's that round ruffly collar that makes his face filled out. Not that there's anything wrong with a little extra flesh. ;-) Thanks for the heads up on Elizabeth. Guess this will be one film I shan't wait for the video.

Grammar Infinitives To boldly split....at our last editorial meeting we were told that it is now acceptable, though not preferable, to split infinitives. Mixed metaphors There's a lot of moving of goal posts on level playing fields going on at the moment! And I always remember asking a colleague (from Greece) how he was (after a bout of 'flu) and he replied "as fit as a button!" Although,it's not as silly as it sounds. I mean, are fiddles fit, or fleas? Are buttons bright? Final example .... many years ago I worked in Nigeria and saw a lovely sign outside the local barber shop.. "London-trained head cutter." Ouch! I will check out the SIL premiere (Ben) An opportunity for a real-life chat up line! As a fellow Englishman in New York, you can presume on your previous acquaintance..."I say, didn't we meet at....in....", ask him out for a drink, and then, as (according to wot the tabloids say) he and JE are still "good friends", you can bring up the subject of Miss Ehle. Easy peasy! Rather filled out jowly (Karen) Maybe he takes character acting seriously! :-) Puts on weight when he's the loser, so as not to outshine the romantic lead (and JF, like Big Bro, is slight in build) and loses it when he gets the gal!! (He looked pretty skinny in the still shots I saw from ATA).But, with some regret, I don't think Wessex is going to be a nice guy!! Self help books.... (Ben) Good for your mum, Ben, and an extra brownie point for being a Good Son. Your mum should check out Bridget Jones' Diary in the Telegraph ....BJ is hooked on self-help books...would be an excellent case study! Brief mention of BJD on a radio programme about books becoming movies. But, unlike the Alex Garland book, and "Cold Mountain" which Anthony Minghella is directing, no details of cast or director were given. BJD is to start shooting "soon".

Girth of Firth Elizabethan fashion (nobility) can be rather unflattering. Padded shoulders, waistcoats, heavy capes, bloomers, tights, and ruffly collars which obscure the neck and jawline, plus goatee beards! No open necked white frilly shirts and britches, unfortunately!

Girth of Firth (Bethan) No open necked white frilly shirts and britches, unfortunately! Well then somebody really blew it doing their costume research for Elizabeth because that's Joe Fiennes principal wardrobe!! However, when he is more formally attired, it is very unflattering. The key thing is the face. JF's face is rather long and lean and Colin's is rather round, so that will give the impression that he is round all over. I do agree he is probably a de Niro-ish actor who puts on the pounds and sheds them for each role. Christopher Eccleston looks Positively Portly as Norwich. FYI, the audience seemed to enjoy the SiL trailer (laughed at all the right things). It's going to be interesting which movie (E or SiL wins for best costume design--a real tossup.)

Bethan and Heide asked me to post my impressions of Lacock. Lacock , situated in Wiltshire nr. Chippenham was the town of Meryton, Hertfordshire in P&P. I was there about a month ago on a crisp autumn day...leaves turning..similar to the day of the second proposal. Lacock , and CastleCombe (5 miles away) vie for the most picturesque village in England. Having been to both, I vote for Lacock with its cottages that date from the 13th C..The whole town is a conservation area owned by the Nat�l Trust.. P&P only used High Street which is a wide street and runs down the center of the village. (Moll Flanders was also filmed there, but on East Street.)Lacock bustles with life...not �touristy� like Williamsburg.The shops are working commercial establishments...a green grocer, a bakery, a butcher. Several stores have bowed windows. I went into the general store which must have been the millinery shop for the Bennett girls. The Red Lion Inn whose outside was used for the Assembly Ball is on High Street. A short walk out of town is Lacock Abbey (f. 1232). I assume the town originally was the home of the workers at the Abbey. Today, the Abbey has been converted into a private house despite its surviving monastic buildings. It is opened for tourists. I was amused to see tricycles and toys around . Fascinating place. And oh yes, coming out of town there is a bridge over a brook which was probably the one Mr. Collins and the girls walked over. Longborn is in Luckington which is north of Lacock. It is not opened for tourists. However, my hosts told me the owner opens the garden once a year for a charity event and since P&P, she gets overflow crowds. It would be fun to see the garden where Mr. Bennett read the letter from Mrs. Gardiner . I have an article from �Homes & Antiques� UK Autumn �95 that goes into more detail about Lacock. I�ll be glad to send anyone a copy (lurkers included) Email me at eboake@tanet.net. You definitely get the feeling that you are stepping back in time when you visit Lacock. I recommend it. I'll do Chawton/ Winchester later. Only if Heide and Ben chime in.

There's a little scene (not shown on ET) where Colin asks if "she is Fertile?" and then the other guy comments that she (Viola-GP) can be returned if she isn't. Karen, my preview did not include this clip!!! What's going on? Miramax getting reactions to different clips? Last month, the people who put together the Oxford Dictionary, have broken down and made public in a statement that it is now acceptable to SPLIT INFINITIVES! Ahh! I'm quite put out! Ben, dear, you always make me LOL!

The key thing is the face. JF's face is rather long and lean and Colin's is rather round, so that will give the impression that he is round all over. I do agree he is probably a de Niro-ish actor who puts on the pounds and sheds them for each role. Christopher Eccleston looks Positively Portly as Norwich. (Karen) I'm nit-picking here, but it's all a matter of contrast. JF does have a very long, lean face, and a rather thin head. I saw him in a clip of a movie with Rufus Sewell, and RS's face, quite literally, looks twice the size of JF's. The effect is to make RS seem "fat", which he isn't. BTW,Christopher Eccleston is a dedicated runner who competes in the London Marathon, so if he looks portly it must be the costumes! As to open-necked shirts, well, JF is the romantic hero, and CF ain't. Unfortunately! But Englishmen do make good baddies!

I re-watched much of P&P last night, Evelyn, and I always look closely at the shops in Meryton. I believe some of them are actually private homes. With the windows right up against the sidewalk, can you tell which homes are private? I can make out the mailbox that was converted into the town's water pump. I assume it's back to being the mailbox. The article you have says that Lacock is in 4 scenes and was surprised that count is correct. By the way, you said it was a crisp autumn day. From the picture you sent, I'd say it was quite blustery too. One wonders how SIL will deal with the adultery angle. Shakespeare was certainly married in 1593 (which Miramax says is the year). Will Anne be mentioned at all or are we to assume she's a shrewish harridan who's driven her husband into the arms of other women. (Trying to make Wessex a little more sympathetic.)

(Heide) ....Meryton. I believe some of them are actually private homes. With can you tell which homes are private? I can make out the mailbox that was converted into the town's water pump. The article said that the National Trust owns all except four houses and the school. I could not tell which houses were privately owned...they all looked the same.BTW in the lousy picture with me in front of the general store...do you see the mailbox is back on the right. It was windy but not cold. Hey, it was the only sunny day that week, you don't think I was going to complain about a little wind, do you!!

Thank you Evelyn for your writeup on Lacock. Very interesting and the article you mentioned (which you've sent me) was as well. Moon, the trailer you saw didn't have that scene. How odd. Although it is likely that more than one was made. Colin is talking to another man. Bethan, regarding girth and portliness. It must be a requirement for baddies as Eccleston/Norwich does have his moments. More than split infinitives, I absolutely hate ending a sentence with a preposition. That's the worse thing I can think of. ;-)

Hi Ben.... On #113 Keepsakes and other Amusements...we can now claim some of Lizzie's items. I claimed the long white gloves that she used at the Netherfield Ball...But if you want them (you can't have the low-cut night gown she wears at the end), I'll spring for the rust-color gloves that matches her bonnet which she wore at Pemberley when Mr. Darcy helps her into the carriage. LOL at your scenario of 2036. But for us, Mr. Darcy is ageless.

During my stay in London, I took a day�s tour to Winchester & Chawton with Backroads Tours (recommended by Heide who went in August). Winchester is about 1 1/4 hrs from London. It is an ancient cathedral city , capital of England from the early 9 C. The River Itchen which flows through the city has the clearest water I have ever seen. (Due to the chalk in the soil which acts as a filter, we were told). The cathedral with its long nave (one of the longest in Europe) is v. impressive . Near the 12 C. font (north aisle) is the simple tomb of Jane Austen with no mention of her literary achievements. There is a window and brass dedicated to her memory in 1900.Winchester has a charming High Street, a pedestrian street and a 15 C.Butter Cross, around which markets were held .Unlike Bath, it is not overrun with tourists. A castle, b. in 1222 by Wm I, was destroyed during the Civil war. But the Castle Great Hall survived...a spendid medieval hall replete with a huge Round table mentioned in 14 C. records. It is painted with a Tudor Rose in the center, King Arthur and a list of his knights on the edge. Colin must have gone to school in Winchester, since this is his hometown, but I don�t know where. Winchester College was founded in 1382 by Bishop Wm. of Wykeham ( the pupils are still known as �Wykehamists� . Ben, our resident �Wykehamist �, can add to this. As can Heide . On to Chawton.....later.

(Ben) I'm an occasional collector of mixed metaphors Thanks for sharing these Ben. They were very amusing indeed. I like malapropisms myself. There was quite a charming one in a recent fan fiction. Since I have no intention to be unkind I will not quote exactly, but the gist of it was something like this. "He could tell by her continence that she was still angry." Hmm, the mental picture of that one made me grin :-) winter, I read your note at Ramble and am thinking good thoughts for you. I just got back yesterday from a longish stint in Manila, Singapore, Tokyo so am behind in my email. Will try and respond to yours (about "Elizabeth") in a day or two. I have missed you all!

(Bethan)BTW,Christopher Eccleston is a dedicated runner who competes in the London Marathon, so if he looks portly it must be the costumes! Really? Interesting... For a while there I thought he was either seriously ill or doing smack. But now that makes sense. Runners have incredibly high metabolisms (marathoners), and it's difficult to tell whether they're ill or in good shape. As to open-necked shirts, well, JF is the romantic hero, and CF ain't. My impression of JF is still undecided. I saw Elizabeth last night and I was unimpressed (one of the few out there, I think). BTW, how can we discern the two JF's in further discussion (Joseph Fiennes and Jonathan Firth)? JANA!!!! You're back! How was the stint? I bet Manila was flooded (as always). We have to catch up on find out when SiL is premiering in town!

One wonders how SIL will deal with the adultery angle. Shakespeare was certainly married in 1593 (which Miramax says is the year). Will Anne be mentioned at all or are we to assume she's a shrewish harridan who's driven her husband into the arms of other women. (Trying to make Wessex a little more sympathetic.) (Heide) You have a valid point, Heide. On moral grounds, we actually should feel a lot of sympathy for Wessex. Okay, he's marrying for money, but that was standard practice for the nobility. A belted earl would expect a handsome marriage settlement and the prospect of male heirs. And Wessex must find Viola attractive. And then what does she do? She makes him a laughing stock at court by having an affair with a man who turns out to be married, and so Wessex tries to end the affair (what's wrong with that?). But he still marries her. Is he really a baddie? He certainly has every good reason to be scowling...more sinned against, than sinner, I would think! BUT, this is all about romantic lurve, and it's a comedy, so,.... Happy Thanksgiving!

Winter: Today's London Theatre Newsletter announced that Jeremy Northam will appear on stage in the Westend in "Some Good Men" this winter. Rufus Sewell will star in "MacBeth" in March. Where the hell is Colin??

Where the hell is Colin?? I feel a quiz coming up, any guesses?

(Bethan) I was reading a tongue- in- cheek article about "celebrities" and gaining an "image" which sells. CF's got it all wrong! Gets married (wrong), very privately (very wrong)to a non-celebrity girlfriend (wrong again) and although now has beautiful clever photogenic wife ( almost right) then completely disappears with aforesaid wife and is never seen in public (wrong) and seems very happily married (wrong, wrong). It also helps to have a dysfunctional background, the odd public row with partner/spat with the aw, and an ex-drink/drugs problem! I tell you, he hasn't got a clue! Add to that....goes to live in a foreign country.Aaaaaagggg. Career hari-kari, for sure.

(winter) I saw Elizabeth last night and I was unimpressed (one of the few out there, I think). I'm with you. All the acting (except Queen Mary) was top notch and CB will most certainly be nominated, but it did not have a *best picture* feel to it. A few of the technical things bugged me throughout the film (shooting from above and going and in and out of focus a number of times). ****SPOILER****DO NOT READ**** Re the ending: The director is no Francis Ford Coppola. ALERT!! Gwyneth Paltrow is scheduled to be on David Letterman this week (Wednesday???) and Judi Dench is supposed to be on Conan O'Brien on Friday night.

Colin is in NYC today doing press! He leaves tomorrow for the UK!!! It does not look like he will be at the SIL premiere. More later...

Ladies, please write down the questions you would like to ask Colin, ASAP! I believe we might get an answer.

Just spoke to Moon and we'll probably have to get the questions to the rep tonight to have any chance Colin might answer them by tomorrow before he leaves. Agh!!! The obvious, of course: What's your next project? Will the project "Marked Man" go forward? Do you know if we'll ever get to see "Secret Laughter of Women"? Have you done any "Shakespeare in Love" promotional interviews, either TV or print? How do you like being described as a "cuckold" in two of your recent films? (should we ask such a thing?) Rewording of questions? What else? I hate asking him for release dates since that's something the studio would answer. I have to go back to work tonight for a late-night meeting. I could fax any questions from work to his rep that are posted here tonight. Don't tell.

Does he have a favorite role from his films? Has he been considering playing Mark Darcy? What's his favorite Italian city? Is he open to doing more period drama? Does he have a role he would love to play? Does he plan to develop his own projects in the future?

And also the little questions: Fav. color, car, season. And invite him to check out the site WWWCF.com. How old was he when he started horseback riding? Does he enjoy it? Does he enjoy dancing? Will he ever want to do a musical? (agh!)

Fav. books All time fav. film Fav. rock band

-Favorite curse word? -When will he be in L.A. next? Is it to promote SiL? -Funniest on-stage blunder? -One thing from his own childhood that he'd like his children to experience? One thing that he would not want them to experience? -Favorite article of clothing? Oh, I hope these questions get to him....

And one more: Is he learning Italian?

Is he going to do any theatre in the near future? Is he going to play Mark Darcy? What is his next project...when does he start? Any more projects lined up/ When will we see SLOW? Has Will got a baby brother/sister yet? (Too cheeky, really!)

More...Does he know that the BBC are making a movie "Mary Queen of Scots" and would he be interested in playing Bothwell? Any plans for more TV work? Would he like to play a major classical dramatic role....Shakespeare, Ibsen? Has he ever given a poetry reading? Fave poet/author? Does he still live in London? Would he like to write a screenplay? Or direct? Does he have a middle name?!!!!!!!!

Would he like to play a major classical dramatic role....Shakespeare, Ibsen? He did say Hamlet in one of the interviews not so long ago. Has he ever given a poetry reading? He recited verse rather beautifully in a BBC radio play "The one Before The Last" in which he played Rupert Brooke.

Okay ladies, I am faxing the above. Wish us all luck!!

Hoorah for you Moon! We're proud of you. All the questions (except the personal life stuff) sound terrific. Remember we're only supposed to be interested in his professional projects. (Oh yeah???) I have just spoken to Karen and she adds: How much weight did you have to put on for SIL. Of the recent movies, what role would you have liked to play. What Blues Club did you go to in Chicago. Just talked to Nan and she doesn't have any questions to add. They all sound good. (But I would select the popular ones...let's not send the man into exile again.) Thanks Moon. Don't forget to tell him we celebrated his birthday on line. It was a good party too.

(Evelyn):Winter: Today's London Theatre Newsletter announced that Jeremy Northam will appear on stage in the Westend in "Some Good Men" this winter. Wish I were there. how long's the winter season for theatre, anyway? Maybe I can get a weekend ticket to London. ;-) Good job with the questions, everyone! Let's hope we get an answer soon!

FYI: CF@Four Seasons Hotel in NY until 5p.m. EST. I have spies too!