I read Middlemarch for the second time when I was going through the realization that I was in an emotionally abusive relationship. I've been divorced now for over 2 years, but am still recovering -- trying to get myself back. I read a lot of eye opening self-help books during that period: Susan Forward's books, Obsessive Love and Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them. Middlemarch, though, I have to say gave me the greatest insight. Eliot herself must have felt the oppression of such a soul murdering force in her life or she would not have been able to write about it so. Another kind of manipulation in a relationship is seen with the genders reversed in the Lydgate-Rosamond marriage. Poor Lygate and Dorothea. What could they have been thinking? I guess they weren't.

Unfortunately, so little thinking goes into the decision to marry. I have been divorced much longer than Amy and managed to come to terms with my demons before I read Middlemarch. This did not prevent that moment of self-recognition. What quirk of the psyche prompts good, smart women to subordinate themselves to cold, abusive men (to any men)? I had the wonderful experience of reading Middlemarch while I was travelling in England. It added a visual dimension to the reading and makes recollection of the book vivid.

I read the Godfather while sick in Florence!

I read the Godfather while sick in Florence! Oy!

Amen to that Amy I too was in a very emotional abusive relationship, boy it does destroy ones self-esteem, but the best thing we women can do is stick together and read classics. That is what healed me honestly. My first post-depression book was Pride and Prejudice and it was the best thing I have ever done.

Really, Laura! Classics as therapy. Maybe we are on to something.

Myretta, I don't know why so many women slip into this terrible trap either. The only excuse I can come up with for my own behavior is that it happens gradually. You go along to get along, then go along a little more, until suddenly one day there is nearly nothing of you left. I don't want to scare anybody, but I put up a first person account of abuse on the web to help people. Don't read it if you are not feeling strong. http://www.pacificrim.net/~blainn/abuse/stories/index.html

Amy, my ex used me as a punching bag, while the little one watched. But my little one is a trooper, shw would stand right up to him and dish it back. With her small little slaps. Well anyway, not to get morbid. Exactly one year ago, after being diagnosed as severely depressed I ended up in a hospital, I took charge, got rid of the B*$&%^%*$*%, put myself and Rebecca into therapy. Took anti-depressants which I thought were miracle workers and just started to read. It was the one thing that I could do or myself. My therapist thought it was wonderful, because I was slowly healing myself. I read Middlemarch, but stopped halfway through because I was still drepressed and I found the story bleak. Same with Jane Eyre. Which is why a year later I am finally reading JE and I will finish Middlemarch. I am no longer on anti-depressants, I read all the time to myself and my daughter and enjoy chatting with you guys. I wish I knew you a year ago. I thought I was the only person in the whole world who felt horrible. But now I know that it is very prevalent in our society.

Amy, first of all I must thank you for starting this conference for Middlemarch, and secondly for getting me back into spring. I have a very wonderful husband and marriage, so I really don't identify with anyone on that score. I watched Middlemarch for the first time because I had heard someone in the P&P bullentin board mention it. I absolutely fell in love with the stories and characters. I feel so sorry for Dr. Lydgate being married to such a woman. And, poor Dorothea to be so bitterly disappointed in our choice of a mate. To me, Middlemarch is a very moving story. I have spent many happy hours reading and watching it. As Amy knows I am captivated by Dr. Lydgate. Shall we have a discussion on him sometime?

A review by Arthur George Sedgwick from the April, 1873, issue of The Atlantic Monthly for the interested one ;) http://www.theatlantic.com/atlantic/atlweb/classrev/middlema.htm

WOW, Johanne! What a find. Hey, you want to change jobs? Can learning the shell and be the linkmaster?

Good for you for getting out, and for getting better, Roar. Little one is okay now too?

BTW Laura, tried to send you e-mail to no avail, it's not getting there, could you please check you address with the spring ?

:-(

Sure it is sombre in tone for most of the time, but I do enjoy the many delicious ironies of the novel.

Johanne, I fixed my email address. It was totally whacked. but my email address is as follows: laura_mccarthy@scudder.com

Hi, I am new at this and quite excited to finally have found people with whom I can discuss and LOVE Middlemarch and Pride and Prejudice. I am an avid fan! I think what I liked most about Middlemarch was Juliet Aubrey, who played Dorothea so perfectly well. I though she was wonderful, with a reall grasp of what Dorothea was all about. The character of Dorothea is actually brilliant. A tough cookie, that one... All the other actors seemed so right for their parts as well.

Hi Luisa. How did you find us? Glad you did. I identify a lot with Dorothea. Not as much as I would like with her goodness and charity, but her suseptability.

I found you through Excite searching device. I think I wrote "Pride..." and there it was. Out of curiosity, I got here. I saw Pride a year ago, but it still impresses me as no other drama series has. Well, Middlemarch, though in a different way, impressed and touched me too. It was darker, but that great acting quality was there along with the rigour they put into characterization, places, etc. (English is not my first language, so bear with me! :).

Happy to see you here, Luisa. Your English is fine. Where are your from?

I liked Middlemarch, but not for any personal reasons, so far I had a nice life, w/ relatively few problems, but the characters interested me completely-they seemed so real. I especially felt sorry for Lydgate. I have to confess that I read the book only after seeing the series, so that was one good thing it made me

I am new here and think this is great! To actually find others who share my love of Middlemarch is unbelievable. Anyway,I wanted to say the part of Middlemarch that I just play over and over(it's in the movie but not in the book)is the final speech at the end about Dorthia how she always felt she could have done more if she only knew better and how her effect on others was incalculable but she now rests in an unvisited tomb. God! Talk about inspiration!

Hi Jess. How'd you find us?

This was the part Jess was refering to: 'And Dorothea: She had no dreams of being praised above other women, feeling that there was always something better which she might have done, if only she had been better, and known better. Her full nature spent itself in deeds which left no great name on the earth, but the effect of her being on those around her was incalculable. For the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts, and on all of those Dorotheas who live faithfully their hidden lives, and rest in unvisited tombs.' I love this passage too (slightly different from the book), and was copying it for another idea I have. But I had such a strange experience while I was transcibing this from the video. It took a little rewinding and replaying, and the TV program I kept on cutting back to was a daily magazine program. By chance, they were interviewing a couple of women about domestic violence. One had a terribly maimed face, the result of a petrol attack by a controlling boyfriend. He had received a 15 month jail term, instead of a good behaviour bond, after the woman had fought to get permission to show her face to the judg . During the next commercial break, the news headline concerned another such petrol attack which happened here yesterday in the parking lot of some local shops. I am in awe of the stength shown by this woman, and others whose damage is less visible. And I also try to remind myself that there are gentle, caring, uncontrolling men who feel just as much aborrence.

Hil, doesn't she remind you a little of Larry Darrell, the character in Razor's Edge?

Hi Amy, After searching the Web for a homepage on Middlemarch forever, I accidently stumbled on this Middlemarch through the P&P e-mail board. Thank goodness for small miracles. Is there any site about the Middlemarch miniseries that anyone knows of?

We just started this, Jess, as spin off of P&P. I have not done a search, but have a feeling we are a smallish band.

Amy, she does remind me of Larry, although I hadn't made the connection. They are both people who are aware of and try to address the big spiritual questions and journeys; who see all the injustices about them, and try to do something about them, even if unsuccessfully; they appreciate the ordinary people, even if by birth they are not of them (very socialist); and they are brave (in a very JA way - often small-scale, though no less brave for that) and compassionate. How's that for someone who has read neither book? Have I got them right?

] Have I got them right? __ I think so. Each adaptation at least captured the essensce of the main characters. They made the world better, like you said, in small ways, one person at a time.

I am new to the conference and have just finished teaching (and showing) Middlemarch. I am also teaching Pride and Prejudice and showing the A&E video on a large screen--absolutely wonderful. The students in my Middlemarch class today said that it was the best video they had ever seen. Has anyone on else here noticed the sibling connections--Johnathan Firth plays Fred Vincy (to Colin's Darcy) and Caroline Harker plays Celia Brooke to Susannah Harker's Jane Bennet? We discussed the idea of 19th century fiction as therapy in class today and were taken with the idea that in the 19th century, a self-actualized woman had the possibility of a "happy ending" and there were few similar situations we could think of in 20th century fiction. Any suggestions?

Is is a fiction to film class, Karen? Or are you an English teacher who likes to be sure she engages? Either way, your students are lucky. P&P on a big TV screen? Heavenly! It is sort of the fashion not to go in for happy endings, I suppose. It is viewed as being sappy? Going to have to think about the 20th Century examples. Great notion, that. Good questions.

Sorry about the above. I sometimes lose items from the menu unless I post something. What is the problem?

Not sure what you mean, Kim. Karen, how about Dagney Taggert in Atlas Shrugged?

Amy, for example, I just read the postings for "Rossamund". When I went back to the Middlemarch menu, "Rosamund" has disappeared. "Casaubon" has also disappeared.

Kim, if you are browsing only new messages on the main conference page -- and you can tell for sure by looking at the address your browser shows for that page -- then your new topic, Rosamond, would not show up because there were no messages under the topic yet -- just your header. And their may have been no new messages in the Casubon topic. To see all the topics, choose all from the main conference page menu.

Thank you, Amy. I need to learn more about all this computer jazz.

What does it mean to be an English teacher "who's sure she engages"? I haven't yet figured out how to post a who-I-am (I'm a cyber-novice). But I do teach English. This semester I got to teach 19th and 20th British Fiction and a special topics in area--Jane Austen (which is, of course, how I found you). However, being a big believer in readiness, I think I was ready. I taped PP2when it was first on, then acquired my own copy so I can view weekly then marked the "good spots". One thing sort of natura ly leads to the other. Middlemarch is such an overwhelming novel for undergraduates that I hunted up the tape of it and fell in love. Has anyone here read A. S. Byatt's *Possession*? I have access to you all only at work, so I will be posting largely during the week. I feel like I have come home.

] I feel like I have come home. ___ I do so love to hear that, Karen. I think maybe I left out a word, my most annoying kind of mistake. I meant to say, an English teacher who makes sure she engages. I meant it as a compliment. Show the series, hook the student, make them love the literature even more. There are so few of us here so far, we can do introductions here. Are you in Missouri, by any chance, with your handle, and in Fulton, MO, judging by your email address? There's a womens in Fulton, right? Westminister? Westminster? I lived in St. Louis for 5 years, long time ago. I'm Amy Bellinger. I'm not a scholar, just a reader. I write for a radio trade magazine from home and have been half heartedly trying to get some paying web work, but this volunteer stuff is too much fun when it's about my passion. Oh, and I am in Bloomington, Indiana. Have lived in Central Michigan, Detroit, Chicago and LA.

I lived in St. Louis quite a while and have been to Fulton, MO. My mom went to Williams Woods College. What did you do in St. Louis Amy?

I lived there from 1876-80, Terry. Worked for the St. Louis Public Schools in its PR department during an interesting time to do media relations -- 8-week teachers' strike and court-ordered desegregation.

I lived there from 1876-80, Terry What was PR like in the 19th century, Amy? Did you learn about this life through hypnotic regression?

Oh my goodness. I really am in the wrong century. Actually, I have had a regression done.

You were there *way* before I was Amy!

Karen, I read 'Possession' some years ago. It is a great book. The question of a self actualised woman in 20th century fiction.....difficult. One who does come to mind is Honey Barbara in Peter Carey's book 'Bliss' which not many people here know.

This is my first visit to Middlemarch. When one only has so much time to spend on the net, one has to set priorities! I confess it was the first video series I purchased after P&P2 and I enjoyed it immensely. The casting of the actors is one of the secrets to the quality of the production. I think that is why P&P2 is so enormously attractive. And just what is the attraction for everyone living in St. Louis at some time in their lives? Found this interesting as I believe our own Mr. Darcy spent a year o his youth there himself, if I recall the facts of his bio correctly!

That's right. His father had a year there. Would it have been at Washington University? If so, he could have lived near me. Maybe I saw a fine looking 17 year old in the grocery store when I was 22 and chastised myself for looking.

Seen as new.