Kim only has net access at work, so she won't see this until Monday, but I'll start anyway. Real time is an illusion, anyway -- isn't it? Over in the Austen conference, Amy2 was talking about "arcs." Meaning the place a character starts, where s/he ends up and what happens in between. The sad thing about Lydgate is that he is such an idealist and ends up "settling." He comes into town wanting to do good small things for Middlemarch and great things for the world. He ends a pathetic panderer to the gouty. Marrying Rosamond threw him off-course, certainly, but was it all her fault? She is an easy one to blame, she is so unsympathetic. But could he have done something to get back on course? We're lucky we have more options now.

We do have more options but need self-realization and understand our innerselfs in the process. Any change requires a conscious effort and willingness to rattle your cage. Living in denial is or consciously not doing anything is so much easier, a lot less trouble.

Oh, Amy, my favorite subject to talk about. I am so sorry that Dr. Lydgate thinks of himself as a failure, although looking through his eyes, I can understand. He wanted to do so much for Middlemarch and the medical world, ans as Amy said he ended up "settling". Rosamund is a selfish creature, but I suppose Dr. Lydgate could have been stonger. However, he loved her so much and only wanted to please her. A part of the video which really gets to me is when Lydgate tells Rosamund that Bulstrode has given him money to pay all his debts. He cries and apologizes for the misery he has caused Rosamund.And all she is concerned about is giving a party for Will. What a witch! I suppose we can think Lydgate is a little weak, but I still think overall that he is almost perfect. Don't beat me up ladies, but I like him better than Darcy.

Rosamond is a perpetual child. A little like Mrs Bennet in a way. But unlike Mr Bennet, Dr Lydgate does not possess the wit and good humour that endears us to Mr Bennet. Therefore he cannot "take delight in vexing ..." Rosie, and besides Rosie does not have the ability to understand that even Mrs Bennet possessed!

] Rosamond is a perpetual child. A little like Mrs Bennet in a way. But unlike Mr Bennet, Dr Lydgate does not possess the wit and good humour that endears us to Mr Bennet. He is a little on the earnest side, isn't he? But that's what makes him so cool. ]Therefore he cannot "take delight in vexing ..." Rosie, and besides Rosie does not have the ability to understand that even Mrs Bennet possessed! I can't stand her.

Cool is right. Being earnest is part of his charm. Not to mention his dark good looks.

Just like, rich, dark chocolate. Yum, yum!

You know, I like Lydgate, but... I don't know, my heart does not skip a beat either for the book character or the mini series portrayal.

So for whom does your heart falls for Amy ?

] So for whom does your heart falls for Amy ? __ Nobody really! Odd for a romantic, no? I identify with Dorothea, who is the idealist type of romantic, maybe that takes care of my romance fix for this story. How about you Johanne?

I know I am in the minority, but I still adore Dr. Lydgate. He is such a good person. He ends up in a horrible position. I think Douglas Hodge is wonderful! He really brought the character of Dr. Lydgate to life. I agree with Mari. YUm Yum Yum Yum Yum Yum Yum!

Let me think about this one Amy, I'll get back to you, cause truthfully fantasizing and reality is quite different... But a tad careful aren't we...experience maybe (for me it is)? I know I'm diverging from this topic but ever seen Douglas Hodge as Declan and Trevyn McDowell (Rosamond) as Michelle Hauptmann in "Capital City", a TV series (1990) look at the fast paced world of bank finance. They were also lovers in this series...

It has been bothering me that I had seen Hodge somewhere before, - must be 'capital City' - and I didn't realise McDowell was there too. I also have a feeling that I have seen Hodge in a sit-com too, which interfers with my appreciation of his Lydgate. I like Lydgate, his idealism, earnestness, and 'softness', but I don't fall for him.

I still think Dr. Lydgate would have been much happier with Dorothea. That would have left Rosamund for Ladislaw. However, she would have grown tired of him after awhile I am sure. Can you imagine how different Lydgate's life would have been with Dorothea by his side?

Right, Kim, Rosamond would not have understood Ladislaw's passion for making the world better either. I can't stand her. An afterward in my edition of Middlemarch says something like "some readers think Dorothea and Lygate would have been suited for one another." I thought to myself, 'Some? Why it springs to mind so naturally I should wonder at someone who would not consider it and wish to advance it if she were some Emma in that book.

Dr Lydgate is very well played by Douglas Hodge. As an aside, Douglas Hodge and Trevyn McDowell were lovers in Capital City. And DH has also been in other recent series of note, namely A Fatal Inversion. So, back to the topic at hand. Dr Lydgate is also tainted by the low morality and unethical behaviour of those about whom he transacts daily. It is for this reason too that his fall is so terrible, in that his ideals were so high, but the indifference of thosw close to him causes him to lower and lose. Rosie was no help. If only Dorothea and and Mr Farebrother had a better influence upon him, but alas, alliance with Rosie also allies him with Bulstrode, who's downfall also brings Lydgate down - tainte by association. Rosie would never have been truly happy in any relationship, especially in one where there was a lack of money. Any alliance with Ladislaw would have been a an even worse fate for her.

I agree with Amy somehow. Dorothea engaged me so much in Middlemarch that I almost forgot to look around for cool, handsome fellows. :) I have to say, I prefered the character Jonathan Firth played (name???) to Lydgate, though he was charming and touching himself. But there was something compelling about J.F....moving and funny. Maybe his playfulness at the beginning and latter resolves to make it up to Mary. But Juliet Aubrey (Dorothea) was SMASHING! :-)

I agree with Amy somehow. Dorothea engaged me so much in Middlemarch that I almost forgot to look around for cool, handsome fellows. :) I have to say, I prefered the character Jonathan Firth played (name???) to Lydgate, though he was charming and touching himself. But there was something compelling about J.F....moving and funny. Maybe his playfulness at the beginning and then latter attempts to make it up to Mary. But Juliet Aubrey (Dorothea) was SMASHING! :-)

Sorry about the repetition. Clumsy me! :)

S'alright Luisa. Everybody does it. Yeah, the Fred Vincy character showed some wonderful growth, as did Dorothea. Maybe that's what we most want to see in a fictional character.

As a way of seeing that growth, I liked the way Fred 'rescued' Lydgate in the gaming room. I liked Fred and Mary and Garth very much.

Yeah, Mary Garth had sort of a motherly expression when she beheld Fred, but at the same time she really looked as if she wanted to respect him and believe in his promises and couldn`t. It made a lot of sense that Fred wanted to earn her respect as well as love.