Let's see, What DOES make that Harley sound?? an 80's Virago with the ignition advanced and the idle turned down makes that Harley sound.... Volkswagon Beetles that have a burned bank of plugs makes that sound.... There are a ton of clones that make that sound... Not all Harley's make that sound.... Maybe they should PATENT the sound.... (sorry, already tried that)... hehehe.... Okay enough fun pokin'... There is really nothing that will imitate 100% the sound of a Big Twin Harley (they even vary from bike to bike)... It's part of the mystique and the legend... and alot of what the writer in Brad's post was talking about.... And how in the heck do you have time to be in the house on the Puter with a NEW ROAD KING IN THE GARAGE???? Congrats!!! Get your motor runnin, head out on the highway... Looking for adventure, in whatever comes our way..... etc

Planeman, ya congrats my friend talk about a great ride for the first "bike back into the fold"!! H-D sounds like it does due to the combination of a pushrod, 45 degree, single crank pin engine. No body else uses "pushrods and single pin crank in a 45 degree V-twin. Most of the Japanese bikes use Single overhead cams and anywhere from 45 to 73 degree V-twins. Enjoy it my firend but be careful that's a might big and heavy bike after such a long time away from riding! Tailwinds, BJ

I did some research a while back about why a Harley sounds like it does. I found some engineering papers that went into a lot of detail and it turns out that there are a lot of reasons - the single carb feeding the T-shaped manifold, the wasted spark igniting a small amount of unburned fuel on the exhaust stroke, and on and on, but the biggest reason is that the firing arrangement is 540/180 degrees apart, it is uneven. The first cylinder fires and one and a half crank revolutions (540 degrees) later, he second fires and after another half crank revolution (180), the first fires again. Other twins fire 360 degrees apart and are lacking that loping idle of the Harley.

Humm see with a Japanese cruiser, the only reason I would but a aftermarket exhaust on it would be to "open up" the flow for better breathing, sound means nothing. Steve has a point, it's pretty useless to "copy harley sound" unless you take the whole motor and make it old fashion on purpose! The Honda ACE model's have 180 degree single pin cranks but use SOHC so right there the sound although kinda simular won't be quite the same. BJ

The Harley sound is a great question. I think the single pin crank, the pushrods, and the dual fire (stock) ignition are the biggest factors. IMHO, the idle of a shovelhead is the sweetest sound of all the Harleys. There is something that baffles me. I have attended Harley drag races 3 times. When the Pro & Top Fuel bikes are idling, they sound more like a Kawasaki than a Harley. The modifications completely change the sound of the bike. Hoop

They have probably been modified to fire at 360 degrees. It would basicaly be a matter of changing cam timing.

If a wasted spark is part of the Harley Sound then they can have it! This despite the fact that my bike, if it ever runs again, will probably also have a wasted spark (but it wouldn't have been done for a sound!)! Doesn't this drain the battery more? How can I get rid of it, or does the necessary hardware cost more than the battery life it will save? Do CDI sysems have this?

the single carb feeding the T-shaped manifold The reason for the idle sound is that it's actually a very poor design and is misfiring at idle, giving it an even more uneven sound. I don't think it would be possible to make a 2 carb twin idle like this. When they came out with fuel injection, the engineers actually considered dialing in a computer synthesized misfire! Amazing that it even crossed their minds! But, luckily, they decided against it.

Whether sitting or rolling, all Harleys produce a lumpy exhaust note. I believe this is primarily from the use of a single-pin crank with heavy flywheel, and a single cam to operate both inlet valves. Operating both valves of a 45-degree twin with a single cam produces asymmetrical valve timing--opening and closing times of the two cylinders are a little different. At idle, a carbed Harley's lumpy exhaust gains an accentuated "lope" presumably because of the misfiring which occurs about once every 10 beats. Essentially, the bike misses a beat every so often, yeilding an uneven cadence. When the rpms rise, the lump remains but the rythm evens out. The FI bikes have that distinctive Harley lumpiness, but the rythm is even all the time, including at idle. HD is attempting to get the sound produced by their motor "trademarked". My understanding is that the trademark would be based on the complete sound profile produced by the bike--not just carbed bikes at idle. BTW, that distinctive lump is present whether the bike is running factory pipes or aftermarket pipes (much louder lump), so that distinction (often debated) is probably moot as far as a trademark would be concerned. Sound volume is not the issue. Remember, a trademark is not a patent! However, the affect on competitors may be even stronger. I would imagine that if HD is successful, manufacturers who use a single-pin crank configurations to "approximate" the HD sound could be subject to litigation. Both Honda and Kawasaki have openly admitted that they wanted to produce such a sound with the ACE and Vulcan, and both are challenging the trademark application. However, the cloners are HD's most likely victims, as well they should be. Producing replacement parts is one thing--copying the motor (and bikes for that matter) down to the last washer is something else again! The quality of the individual parts aside, there can't be any denying that the sound from an aftermarket EVO is identical to a factory one! He who trademarked first may have the last cough! hehe. Play me a song Mr. Harley man!

You get the Harley sound from the use of l950's engin technology.

You get the Harley sound, shake, rattle, and rumble from using l950's engine technology.

Well Jim, some things just stand the test of time better than others. That's the true definition of a classic, like Harley-Davidson. Happy Days!

So Jim, what's your take on Guzzis, Ducatis, and any older bike? I don't remember what you ride. Each bike attracts many people for the motor itself more than anything, shortcomings accepted. Some prefer the pipe&jet wail, others the throb/booming,etc. For myself, the age and techno-level aren't a part of what really speaks to me or completes a judgement on my choice (or others') of ride.

Hey, I admit--I like the Harley sound. I idled my old XS650 about 300 rpms too low trying to emulate the slow lump (unsuccessfully, of course). Who invented the single pin V-twin crank? It wasn't HD. The estate/family of whoever invented it should sue Harley. It's ludicrous to force users to use a particular crank shaft configuration. "Dual Pin is o.k., single is not". Is it just me or does this sound insane?

This reminds me of Microsoft's attempt to trademark the word "Windows". The judge ruled that a common word can't be trademarked. (The word Windows describes an item in an interface, whether it's MS, Apple, Unix, etc.). I'd say the same should hold true for Harley. The single pin crank has been around longer than HD has, and is in common use.

Yeah, tell it to the SARAN WRAP people.... hehehe

As a guy who does a lot of intellectual-property stuff, I agree with the SC decisions; Kleenex, Xerox, Cigarette(boats), and several others ran through the "Saran Wrap" court gauntlet to preserve a trademark only, not an entire concept or design itself (tissues,copiers,v-bottoms). I guess HD feels the money is well spent as a reinforcer of their position in the cycle-engineering world, they can't possible believe they could ban the engineering itself.

That's why HD isn't pursuing a patent--the engineering components are not unique, but the sound of the HD motor based on it's total configuration is unique--hence the trademark. Anyone who claims the sound isn't unique needs to have their ears examined (or wait for a straight-piped bike to come by)! Forget about it! BTW, it doesn't matter who invented a single pin crank or other components. The fact is, that when HD began the application process for a trademark in the early 1990's, they were the ONLY motorcycle company that HAD or WANTED that special sound. Indian was, and is dead! Moreover, at that time, other companies, especially the Japanese were critisizing HD's motors as crude and outdated. Now that the Japanese are on the lumpy sound bandwagon, they're are all indignant about the trademark. As are the rip ff "boutique" bike makers using carbon-copy EVO clones. Believe me--I'm crying a river of crocodile tears! As they say in NY, "Crank this baby"! hehe

Same old stuff ha Brad. By the Way on a different note Crossroads the old standby is back up on line and working. Whats the deal Jon I thought it was gone for good.

Great to hear from ya Marc. You must be spending all your time Star gazing in RSTAR! hehe. I'll try the XRoads and see what gives. Thanks for the tip! Nice to cross your road again!

What????? What address are you using?

I blew off the URL, and when I used "woodstock" & "linus" I got nowhere. Marc or Brad can you post the URL? Again. For what it's worth?

O.K., "linus" does NOT WORK! Hey Marc! Let us in, willya?

Alot of speculation goin on here. Steve is actually 100% correct: The biggest reason is that the firing arrangement is 540/180 degrees apart, it is uneven. The first cylinder fires and one and a half crank revolutions (540 degrees) later, the second fires and after another half crank revolution (180), the first fires again. Dave Dave's Harley Page http://www.pipeline.com/~pc006

Dave, the firing arrangement must be directly influenced by, and related to other motor components and configurations. FOI, could you please elaborate? Ok kids, let's look inside the potato-maker!

Brad, as far as the "sound" deal for Harley, I don't see the Japanese being any threat to Harley. See the largest percent of Jap cruisers are still using double pin, 360 degree cranks as the Jap cruiser "rider" doesn't care for the "vibrations" of a single pin, 180 crank. Yes the Honda Shadow ACE, but only one model, the ACE Tourer went back to the double pin, 360 system so I think the Jap Mfgr's. are figuring out that "cruiser riders" for their products, like the "STYLE" but don't want the higher prices ie: dealer out the door, not MSRP) or the excessive vibrations of the Harleys (the Rubber Glides are an exception of course). The new Suzuki FAT Intruder is still double pin crank so even if the Jap Manufacture's are still yapin about the "LAW", if your trying to make a Jap Cruiser "SOUND" like a Harley-Davidson, just quit wasting your time as it ain't never gona happen!!! Now adding a aftermarket exhaust to let it breath better and add to the bikes natural sound is fine as EPA tries to kill all sound no matter what country the bikes hail from. I think the folks at Harley have more to worry about from the "growing clone makers" and compaines like Polaris and EH than any of the Japanese Manufacture's. Why the hell can't we all just get along and RIDE, sometimes I thing we are all spoiled brats and maybe the government should abolish us we seem so childlike! Ride to Live, Live to Ride, that should be the true moto no matter where our bikes where put together from a pile of parts!!!!!!! BJ

I agree with most of what your comments BJ. However, remember that the HD trademark was not originated due to competition from the Japanese--it was the engine/bike cloners HD was after back in the early 1990s. It just so happens that during the process, Honda and Kawasaki decided to try to produce that lumpy HD-style sound, and actually changed (detuned) their motors to achieve it. Will it ever be exactly the same? Probably not, but trademarks are like horseshoes and hand-grenades--close counts! I co ld really care less since it's a corporate fight, not a fight between riders. BTW, I also agree with you on the EPA, although international noise and pollution movement is much more threatening to our long-run, collective future. International cooperation is fine--global oppression is not!

Yeah, I can understand that, Brad. These EVO knock offs are a copyright infringement. But somehow I don't see why they would use this technique if they were worried about these guys ripping them off. Fact is they're cranking out engines with their design. THAT'S enough of a copyright violation, why come up with this screwy "copyrighted sound" stuff?

It's called MARKETING...... hehehe

What makes the Harley sound? One of the piston strokes is slightly shorter than the other, combined with the right set of pipes, Harleys have that offtime sound that "everyone" craves instead of an even "one-Two" sound of balanced cylinders. I wouldn't pay the price difference just for the sound and the name.

Hmm, wondered about that.

i thought it was the combination of exhaust mixed with the beating of the heart.

Actually I thought it was a rather hairy male revving up ....My neighbour works for them ....and keeps his Harley in the dining room