"dressed in leather outfits and drag him around with us each in groups of 3" Hey can I play! :) - or maybe I cant since the last Honda I had was a C90?

You got it Frank. People have been predicting HD's demise for years, while secretly purchasing their stock for retirement! hehe Of course, Honda makes good products, and so does HD. You don't have to hate one to love the other, and neither company is succeeding at the other's expense. It's not lonely at the top!

So the Vaklyrie isn't a Harley killer?

Nah, the Valk is a whole different deal. It's a hotrod that draws its styling from the American classics but its soul from Honda's past. It's a unique deal that some will love and others won't--but it won't affect HD sales much, I figure.

I think the point Frank made on the Polaris is accurate. There will be a few people around the margin that will forgo an HD for something like Polaris or the Honda Valkyrie to save a few bucks or a little time, but there aren't enough of them to make a big dent in Harley sales. Most folks that want a Harley will not accept anything else. IMHO, the Valk is not the kind of machine that can capture the heart and the soul of an HD enthusiast. What's his blood type? Orange?

Harley-Davidson is as much an image as a motorcycle, as much a vision of WWII dispatch riders and Peter Fonda as it is an assembley of parts. It's Hollywood on two wheels. Honda makes motorcycles of all kinds, from the C90 (bigger version of the universal C50 Cub) to the GL1500 GoldWing (for those who can't decide between an Accord Wagon and a motorcycle) The Valkyrie is a V-Max killer that really should have taken that left turn at Albequerque, because it ended up in the middle of Cruiserville, where it's O.K. thanks to the comfort left over from the GoldWing components, but where it looks a bit uncomfortable, like a drag racer in drag. Harley-Davidson really wouldn't make a bike like the Nighthawk (if they weren't already making the Sportster... since 1957!) and they DEFINITELY would not make such a bike as the PC800 Pacific Coast, which has totally foregone style in favour of innovation (has anyone else, apart from scooter makers, built a bike with an integral trunk?) and has given up the D-P market completely. If you want a real sportbike, the only way to get one in a Harley flavour (unless you build your own) is to buy a Buell, whic uses a Sportster 1200 engine and top-line sportbike pieces from just about everywhere else but H-D. I really should have put this opinion column under Honda, but this is where the argument is...

What's Harleys answer to the Valk?

Does NOT have one, at least not stock. However, the Screamin' Eagle performance parts division of H-D, or aftermarket engine builders like S&S can provide hop-up parts or complete engines to supply the power to catch Valkyries or V-Maxes. Style-wise, there are some who argue (Not me, Marc!!!) that the Yamaha Royal Star and the Valkyrie are replies to the H-D Road King. I have no effective answer for the Royal Star (except that I STILL wonder about the fake fins), but the Valkyrie is definitely something completely different. (English accenthere:)And now for something completely different!

Albert says to me "What good is an image or a vision if all you see of it is the parts all over the garage"

I take it he's an active Harley non-fan. I think Harleys have improved since the bad old days of AMF, but I personally don't know how much. They held the lead in factory recalls in 1994 (BMW came second, I think...) How long has Albert been riding? You apologized for saying he was a beginner and told us he was quite experienced. Did he have a Harley that he had to take apart?

The lead in numbers or percentages? What percentage of their bikes in 94 were subject to recall?

I mistakenly said he was a beginner. I'll ask him when I see him. He got quite agitated about the Harley thing. He's very wrapped up in the Valk. Last I heard, he was headed off for the Continental Club, it's made him much more outgoing. He shaved his head a couple of days ago and is undergoing sort of an identity metamorphosis.

LOL. Yeah, sounds like a Harley rider to me! (Better not tell him I said that......)

Number, I think. I read the motorcycle recall list in Consumer Digest's 1994 yearbook, and Harley almost monopolized the column-long list, leaving two or three to BMW. I don't recall seeing any Big Four bikes in the list (was Triumph there? I'm not sure...)

My wife would say 'mid-life crisis' for Albert. Some guys just grabbed the reins and learned how to take 'em apart and put 'em back together, wether knucklehead, AMF-bike or whatever. Some just don't want that and look elswhere. Get him on the board to exchange gripes/praises!

Albert has bought into an image too, just not the one Harley offers. Anti-Harleyism is perhaps more trendy today than Harleyism. I think he should just ride what he has and leave others to do the same. I won't hold it against him that he bought a Valk--promise! ;-) If you say you don't want a Harley long enough, you might actually believe it! hehe

Well, I wouldn't mind a Sportster or a Dyna Convertible, but... As the song says, "Be Thankful For What You Got" (The writer of that song took his own advice and only wrote one verse, which was repeated a few times by the singer when he recorded it!)

Iam starting to look at a used Buell S2 with higher bars and lower pegs. It's only got 14,000 miles and I personally know the 1st. and 2nd. owner. It's been very well cared for and I was major surpirzed that the bike has a very level seat position which keep the "pressure off my hands"! See most sportbikes has the seat "heading down hill" which really puts pressure on the hands and wrist's, which kills the comfort factor for me and makes most sportbikes un-rideable! So since you guys know everything there is to know about bikes (: How's about giving me your unbiased opinons on the Buell S2. They want $7,900 but I bet I can talk them down to $7,500 as Buell's aren't as popular as H-D's!! Tailwinds, BJ

The S2s are awesome. Strong 1200cc EVO motor, good handling and stopping, and (in my opinion) killer (and no doubt unique) looks. I've ridden (did I mention this before somewhere?) a 1200cc Sporty and if you had that engine's characteristics (super low down grunt) in a great sportbike chassis that actually vibes less than a Sporty, well that's nirvana. And they're rare to top it off. You might even try to get down to $6,500. I would be careful, though, as the S2s are much more problem prone than the S1s from what I've read.

Unless Cycle World gets special treatment, Buell has a very good service department, but I wonder if it's due to a large amount of experience in a short time...

Something like that. Did you see their long term test S2's performance? Broke down alot, but they kept saying "it was only a pre-production unit", etc. But your'e right--they fixed everything that went wrong.

BJ: Offer 7K and stick to it! You'll like it MUCH better than a Hugger all round. I was wondering when you'd think of this, as long as a used bike is in the picture. I think they'd be happy with the 7 grand.

Frank, well as in my life of constant change, looks like I won't be getting either the Sportster or the Buell! See the money we are getting is from the "profit sharing account" from JO's last job (13 years at SAM'S CLUB (ie:WalMart), and the IRS is killing us in taxes on us so there won't be quite as much money as we figured, that's change #1. Change #2 is that JO (my wife) has decided that she really wanted the Intruder 800 instead of the 650 Savage, our dealer gave us a great deal on the leftover 96 Sav ge but the only Intruder 800 leftover he had was a 97 and with that much more money involved. Being the semi-decent husband I am, Iam bowing out from the Sportster/Buell deal and JO is getting her lovely red Intruder, (after all it is her money for working at a crappy retail job for 13 years!!). So now Iam looking at 2 bikes: A. Suzuki Maruder 800 B. Honda 750 NightHawk These machines are around $1,000 to 1,500 dollars cheaper and are within my reach with what will be left after the Intruder purchase. These are pretty much my "new bike options", now used bikes are a different story so who knows what I will end up with! In Jan. I'll let everybody know, I love life, it's always one thing or another! Tailwinds, BJ

Used Suggestions: i. Virago 750 ii. Intruder 800 iii. GS500 iv. KLR650 v. 600 Eliminator vi. Shadow (I'm actually recommending a fake fin bike?) vii. Nighthawk (This would have been higher up if you hadn't already told me that you consider them to be plain) Will some Yamaha fans (I used to be one!) please recommend some Yamahas?

OOPS! The very first bike on the list IS a Yamaha! Thought I didn't have any on. Well, Yamaha fans can add more Yamahas to the list, then. I used to think of myself as a Suzuki non-fan. Either Suzuki got better or I got better informed!

BJ, grab a nightHawk and be happy! It can always be sold.

You had to pay taxes, BJ? That can't be! The government makes extra sure that only nasty old rich people have to pay taxes! (O.K., so I'm being sarcastic because of my resentment of the tax system in this country....)

Iam with ya Jon, JO earned $19,000 dollars in the 13 years in her profit sharing account. Right of the top is 21% which brings it down to $15,000 which should buy us the 2 machines we want "BUT", we were informed that we could be charged a "additional" 10% tax by the IRS, and of course that's on the $19,000 Gross amount, not on the $15,000 Net amount. So we have to hold back a min. of $2,000 dollars, so we are down to $13,000 at best. Jo's 97 Intruder is $6,100 out the door (taxes and dealer prep included), that leaves $6,900 and the cost out the door for a sportster 883 from my local dealer is $7,100 (taxes and dealer prep included) so were already $200.00 short and that doesn't include windshields,lower seat for JO and was hoping for a different seat for the Sporty as the stock seat is pretty bad. So to be smart I will look for a bike in the $6,000 out the door range and have a little money to cover 6 months insurance and plates for 2 new bikes! This is because of the Harley dealer markup of 8.5% (883 Sporty MSRP= $5395--Dealer price $5895+ $700 dollars set up and dealer prep, $90 document fees and $400 in taxes for the lovely state and county of Colorado. The $5395 Sporty now total cost is $7,100 out the door with no accessiores, ouch! Tailwinds, BJ

BJ, Have you checked with other dealers? Your dealer is obviously not being straight with you. The MSRP price already includes a dealer markup. I have no idea how much it is, but I assure you--it is enough to keep most dealerships profitable--after all, the ripoff dealerships only recently(3 years) started to jack the prices up over MSRP. Don't let anyone tell you that ALL dealers are participating in these ripoff policies. They aren't! Most dealers still sell bikes at MSRP. Check around, make some ca ls. Who needs the money more, you or a dealership? IMHO the $700 figure for dealer prep (removing the bike from the shipping crate) and setup (adding a few quarts of oil, putting a battery in, and wiping off any dirt or grime) is astronomically outrageous. In this situation however, there remains little that can be done. Just thought I'd add my $.02 Hoop

Thanks Hoop, ya Iam starting to look at all the options! Seem's most of the Jap/Euro dealers have prep and freight set at a total of $290.00, that would give me $400.00 to cover access. or insurance. It's just now I look like a goon, I've been telling everyone Iam gona buy a Harley and now Iam changing my mind so soon. Have learned "say nothing" till something happens! Thanks. Tailwinds, BJ

Just tell 'em, "I lost my Harley to the tax-man!" They'll sympathize! ;-]

Only perfect people never chage their mind and I HATE perfect people...

Hey BJ personally I like hearing about all your choices. Don't let anything pressure you after all its winter and the dealers are happy to see a live body walk in!

Frank, you know it seem's that the local dealers don't slow down much in the winter here but we have fairly mild winters much of the time but Elnieo might change that. Have to admit Iam kinda bending toward finding a used Kawasaki Concours and giving sport touring a try. It's as close to sportbiking as this old body well ever get. The search continues! Tailwinds, BJ

Just can't get the mind off the Harley Sportster, damn it seems the propaganda machine is working on my brain hard, figured that we "can" still buy the sportster but it's real close. See Jo is so short that she can only ride cruisers and even the 27" seat heigt of the 800 Intruder is a strech for her (we are ordering a Saddleman "lowboy" custom seat) for JO. The problem is that if I buy a sport tourer type machine Iam always leaving JO in the dust, the tires and maintance on a sport tourer is higher due o engine type and required sticker tires. A Sporty has hyd.valves and a belt drive it should be fairly major maintance free. Having a cruiser to me means Harley, the Japanese versions are nice but cookie cutter in style (at least the models I can afford). Jo is my best riding partner and most of my friends ride either tourers or cruisers. Having a sport machine is NO FUN when riding with cruisers, even the ThunderBird custom seemed FAST when riding with the gang. Probably gona lose all common sense and ge the Sporty after all! Damn, the H-D shops must do subliminal messages or odorless mind control gas! If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand! Help me, Help me Mister Wizard, ha ha! Tailwinds, BJ

BJ, if an early Buell won't fit the bill, and the $$ is right, get the Sportster you seem to want pretty much more'n anything else. Understand that every Harley is a building foundation and plan accordingly. EVERYone I know on even the "simplest" of Harley's changes bars, seat, tank, all those, or more. Most sport-tourers require some ergonomic adjustments to controls, a set of bags, and that's it. But I can feel the desire for the American iron over here on my monitor!

BJ, is there an MuZ dealer near you? See if they have any leftover Silver Stars. If they're too small for you, maybe you can convince Jo? Then you may have enough for your Sporty (or your Silver Star? You did say you like unusual bikes, how unusual is a Sportster, really?)

Sam, you have a point, in that a Sportster is definently a main stream motorcycle. To be honest, it's not really the bike that is the selling point. See Iam a social rider, I don't like being a loner much and HOG seems's like the "family" I have always craved. Yes, I know it sounds stupid since "real motorcycle riders are independent, free sprited, lonewolf" types but Iam not! Plus Iam a real curious fellow, I have a need to explore each bike and find it's points good or bad and many of my friends ride H rleys and love em so maybe the majority "is right" or maybe they are full of !@#$ but it would be fun to find out! See my physical problems keep me out of my first love, SportBikes, I'd love to be able to ride a CBR1100XX but I can't except a few miles, what good is bike if you can't ride it!!! I can't afford a comfortable touring rig like a Voyager or Wing unless I buy a outdated discontinued model (ie: 1000, 1100 or 1200) unlike my Friend Frank, Iam not much for older bikes, don't want anything more than 5 years old "for my main riding bike"! The next step in the "comfort" zone for me is Cruisers and to be blunt, Harley has the style over anyother cruisers IMHO. Sam, I have looked at the MZ Skorpin model but the dealership sold out here and won't bring them back due to extreemly slow sales. This is my fear with buying the leftover Triumph Trident also. My Triumph dealer is "not a happy camper" as Triumph UK. basicly told the dealers to "shove it up their ass" when the price cuts started happening and I like being able to work local. It shows as Iam willing to "pay" the local harley dealer his "blackmail" money as I have had problems when I bought a bike at a out f town dealership and needed warrunty work done. See as stated if I decide that "Cruiser Style" is the way to go then it's "got to be a Harley" or I'd just as soon buy a "different style of bike"! Tailwinds, BJ

No Skorpions...No Silver Stars either? MuZ has discontinued the Saxon Tour and the Silver Star (a "retro" version of the Saxon), but I was told that they had a lot still in the showrooms (which is probably why they were discontinued!) I think you said that 500s were a bit small for you, but you also said that you like unusual bikes with style; a Silver Star sure fits that bill! Good luck with HOG! Then again, maybe you could get a used Virago 750 or 1100 and join RSTAR! (If this doesn't flush K out of the woodwork, I don't know what will!)

BJ, You seem to be saying that you personally need to experience the many different facets of motorcycling and that a Sportster & HOG is yet another facet you wish to enjoy. You are aware of the current price "situation" and have decided to do commerce with your local dealer. I say to you--good luck and to "enjoy the ride". The Sportster will provide you with memories of a lifetime!! I am sorry to hear about the ABATE members getting down on you for wearing a helmet. As a longtime ABATE member--I apologize for the stupidity of my brethren. Enjoy your new ride!! Hoop

BJ, your local dealers sound like royal pains in the ass! One wants exorbitant "setup" moneys, another you say wouldn't do warranty work because you didn't buy the bike there? Those are 2 of the Top Ten reasons for finding a different dealer and putting up with a commute there. With the Laverda, as you may imagine, the nearest real wrench was 1 hour/82 miles away. The Ducati guy is 48 miles away. The Guzzi guy is in another state. But getting honest compassionate attention is a priority that should come w th your investment, so it's worth the effort to hunt 'em down! My buddy bought his Ropad King at one guy and goes anywhere he wants for his stuff. Perhaps it depends on location differences, but I feel any Harley guy will welcome your business more than not at all.

BJ, don't get an 883. I've been reading some of my back issues of CW and Motorcyclist and I've come to a conclusion--you'll be selling it in a week. If the 883 didn't have "worse than a 125 thumper dirt bike" performance, it might be o.k., but the 883 just doesn't have performance that other bikes of the same displacement have. Not even close. Add to that the vibes (o.k., I know, you put like 40,000 miles on an XS650, but still--it's a pain). What you need is a full sized bike with full sized performance. If HD doesn't make one you can afford, I'd say go elsewhere.

I'm inclined towards Jon's opinion BJ. As I mentioned, between your size and style and my rather limited experience with things Harley, the small Sporty will leave you wanting to turn it over very quickly. Are there enough well-placed gas stops where you ride? Do those little buckhorns suit you? Do you mind being able to see your toes from the seat, since they'll be right below your elbow, etc.?

Points well taken Jon and Frank, well things change quickly here in Ondoland! Looks like Jo and I are getting matching Suzuki 800 Intruders. My local Suzuki dealer gave me a excellent deal on 2-left over 97's, has no dearler prep costs and is giving me cost+ 20% on accessiores for 3 months. I get 2-800cc cruisers for the price of one MSRP Harley-Davidson "Super Glide", just can't turn down such a excellent offer to keep our busines at the local dealer. Mines black and Jo's is red so as of Jan. we will be intruding on everyone's riding space, ha ha. I know it's not the Euro bike you all were hoping I'd buy but most of the Eurobikes I really want (ie:R1100RT) are forever out of my budget so Iam gona give cruisin a 100% try and who knows, might end up on a Valk someday, ha ha! Tailwinds, BJ

The 883 is looking more & more like the Harley for me...

I think you will enjoy the rides BJ... Get pics posted soon... COngrats...

Great BJ. You'll be "double matched" with Jo.

So much for blaming the bike for getting out rode... LOL

Shane, well Jo is such a "mellow rider" that I don't think it will be a problem, if it does there's always the aftermarket,ha ha. No way to send pictures, I use a Lowly Web Tv unit with no hopes of having "scanner capabilities" in the foreseeable future!! Too bad as adding a picture of the 2 of us to our humble website would be excellent. See it has to be set up as a URL. The web tv unit has no "hard drive" so I can't use FTP files either. It putts me around the WWW and as long as the site isn't in JAVA can usually access it ok! Figure on riding the 800 Intruder for a couple of years and the figure out weither to go to a Touring Cruiser or just trade in for a Kawasaki Voyager. As I head towards 50, comfort is becoming more a factor and having some serious "tunes" while riding the plains might be real excellent too! Tailwinds, BJ

No, Jo (by virtue of the fact she weighs half as much as you) will always blow you away (all else being equal).

Jon, you have no idea of what at "smell the roses" rider that my Jo is, ha ha! Fast is not something she cares about and she's very careful and cautious. So yes, I agree with you in a sciencetific way but in reality, "she's toast", ha ha! BJ

Glad you're going to get a ride BJ, and the choice is a nice one. You can always get an "associate" HOG membership from one of your HD buddies if you really want to join in. Sam, as far as your comment, I agree--the 883 would be an interesting bike for you. I disagree with Jon--the 883 can be made to kick butt with very little money, and vibes issue is way over-rated IMHO. In fact, if you read this year's CW feature article on middle-weight cruisers Jon, you will see that Cycle World editors actually picked the 883 Sportster as the best bike in their lineup, including the new Honda Shadow 750 ACE. Sportsters handle very well, they are light, stable, and solid. And if size is an issue, a set of forward controls and different bars can take care of that for most folks. If you want a small bike with broad shoulders, the 883 could be a great choice. Sportsters are exactly what the name implies--fun!

Right, but they said "The 883 is best, BUT it vibes, BUT it's slow, BUT", etc. They basically said a bunch of bad things about it then picked it. One of the worst reviews I've seen. I'm not saying the 883 is a bad bike, but it's a bad bike for anyone who's not a beginner. It's just not a real, full sized bike. Japan, on the other hand, does make some 800cc class bikes that are, the HD is just too small and slow to be a practical ride for an experienced rider like BJ, in my opinion. A 1200, now that's another story....

The 1200's no bigger...

It's lots faster, though. Size is all relative. ;-)

Ain't that the truth! In Jamaica, the largest bike Yamaha sells is the XV535! Honda's biggest bike offered (upon order, they have none in the showroom) is the CBR600.

The 883 seems to be HD's Camaro; not bad but most buy it to get the aura of something bigger down the line, and the price is the real 1st reason it's sold.. I think Harley makes it pretty clear as to it's entry level status, meaning that most trade up or surely use it as a personal customizing foundation for a narrower focus. I looked at an acquaintances' Intruder 800 last week and once you get close it's a pretty heavy piece of machinery; add some Jardines and bags and you're done.

Oh, I thought you liked CW Jon? How about MO? Here's what Motorcycle Online says about the 883 HD in their latest middle-weight shootout that included the Kaw Vulcan 800, the Suzuki Marauder, the Yamaha Virago 750, and the Honda Shadow ACE 750. It [HD 883] is the most powerful, and it has the most potential...it has the best rear brakes (actually the only one equipped with a disc) in the test. That, along with having the best ground clearance, handling, and being the most original, goes a long way. Further, the belt-drive system has a much longer service interval than a chain (80,000 miles). Bottom line is that the Sportster is not a complete motorcycle, it's a work in progress, waiting for your finishing touch. Versatility is the name of its game. The Sportster can be transformed into anything from a full-boat boulevard cruiser to a hot-rod canyon bullet (if you don't believe us, ask Jake Zemke, who recently beat out a field including 916s in Willow Springs' Unlimited Twins class on his de-restricted NASB Twin Sports racer). After eleven years in production, with just little improvements here and there, the Sportster has a larger aftermarket than anything without the word Softail in it. ...So you ask -- no scream -- again, "Second Place?" To that we shout an unapologetic, "Yes!" There you have it. MO picked the 883 as second only to the ACE, and by the thinest of margins--head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. In Jon's defense, they did mention the vibration on the Sporty as a negative, but it didn't outweight all the positives, of which there were many! Be a Sport!

I'd like a close look at that NASB bike. Beat a field of 916's? PYeah! Who the hell was riding them? ;oP

Powerful? I've ridden a '91 Sporty 1200 and its power was barely acceptable, in my opinion, for a bike of that size and displacement. The torque was fun, and it could launch hard off the line, but my measly old '83 Nighthawk 650 could hang with it. I can't imagine what the 883 is like. Almost everyone I've talked to says "slow". No, I don't particularly like CW or MO. The only moto pub I like is Motorcyclist. I read CW, but that's because I like bikes, not the mag. True, HD riders aren't looking for big power, but they do like big torque. And when it comes to torque, to use a cliche, there's "no substitute for cubic centimeters".

Oh, I agree about it being original. The 883 emulates HD only, it's not a knock off of someone else's style. I also don't doubt that it handles best too, as it's not really in the big cruiser vein, as the others were trying to be.

I tell you what, though. The best sounding event at the AMA race by far was the 883 race. That thunder just gets into your bones. The Ducati SBs were a close second, but one or two bikes is not the same as 20 open piped narrow angle V-twins all thundering away at the start. Awesome!

As far as power goes Jon, a stock Sportster can be tricked up for very litte $$. Oh, and when it comes time to sell and move up you don't lose your shirt or your wallet on the Sporty. In the meantime, I guess we'll just have to wait for Motorcyclist to pick the 883 in their next middle-weight shootout! ;-) FACTOID: The 883 is the #1 selling motorcycle in America!

It's very true. Lots can be done to soup them up. And it is the number one selling bike in America, although it seems like I see more Softails and Glides on the roads. That's odd.

I agree, Jon. When I rode my friend's 1200, I had to remind myself not to overdo the throttle for fear of launching a valve or some such. The bike "felt" gutsy, but the twisting didn't match my preconceptions. A good starter bike though.

Agreed, Frank, but BJ is far from a starter. It'll be interesting to see what he ends up with.

Frank said, "I'd like a close look at that NASB bike. Beat a field of 916's? PYeah! Who the hell was riding them? ;oP" Hee, some very disappointed riders I would presume! ;-) Actually, I think the basic point there was not whether or not a Sportster (in any form) can really hang with a 916--just that the Sportster can be made into the kind of bike YOU want--be it a laid back cruiser, a street fighter, or a canyon racer. Call it a Sportster EVO-lution!

I think that anything with 883 cc is bloody BIG! A Nighthawk 450 seems to me like something to grow into! Yet y'all consider 500s, 600s and even 750s small? Howzat? Motorcyclist did have a comparo with the "last" of the 750 Nighthawks (during the year that it was discontinued in the U.S.), an 883 Sportster, a Seca II, a Kawasaki EX500 and a Suzuki GS500. I don't remember how it was rated, but one thing that struck me was that it was the heaviest bike with the biggest engine and it had the best fuel economy! I still don't know how!

Frank said, "I'd like a close look at that NASB bike. Beat a field of 916's? PYeah! Who the hell was riding them? ;oP" Hee, some very disappointed riders I would presume! ;-) Actually, I think the basic point there was not whether or not a Sportster (in any form) can really hang with a 916--just that the Sportster can be made into the kind of bike YOU want--be it a laid back cruiser, a street fighter, or a canyon racer. Call it a Sportster EVO-lution!

Jon and Frank, lots of experienced and long-time riders are on Sportsters. I think Sportsters can be a good place to begin or end, depending on your own personal frame of reference. You don't need a Big Twin to ride tall!

I agree with Brad about what the Sportster , could,can and might be. Jon I bought a 800 Intruder leftover like Jo's only in a different color. The "Dealer costs of mark up and freight/prep" basicly was the "deciding factor" IN NOT BUYING THE SPORTY. The other factors were, "excessive vibrations" at a constant highway speed, no money in the budget to do the intial mods required to bring the power up. I plan on traveling and the Intruder was "much smoother". Frank hit the nail on the head, throw on some bags and a small windshield and the Intruder is ready to go (someday a nice set of aftermarket slip-ons for better breathing and a little more sound.) NO I don't want it to sound like a Harley, just a little more bark will surfice nicely! Last, if I had the bucks I was seriously looking at a left over 96 Kawasaki Voyager, comfort is starting to take priority over speed. Cruisers are comfortable and fun so it made good sense! So let's kill the dump on the Sportster vain and yes, it's a great bike but just didn't fit my personal situation at the time. To tell the truth if the "Dresser don't come into the future, a nice (Used) Harley Low rider (ie: Dyna RUBBER GLIDE) with vibration taming motor mounts could be in the future!!! Tailwinds, BJ

Whilst we are talking sporty's - does anyone know where I can get a steel trapdoor for an evo sporty gearbox? the stock aluminium ones flex under severe load and since Boss is putting a sidecar on his (and rides outfits like a maniac) it seems like a good idea to fit a steel one before he blows the casing to bits! (This is the man who bent the gearbox main shaft on a Triumph Bonnie outfit - attempting to do 100mph across Ashdown forest, he got an indicated 110 for 1/2 a mile before there was a big bang - but it got him home!) :) they in theory exist but I cannot find a supplier!

BJ--well said. Your future looks bright--hope you bought some shades to go with the new bike! hehe. BTW, I have a friend who just lucked into a very nice used black FXR--1990, 5,000 miles, well maintained, $10,000. Owner got married--poor bastard! ;-) Shebee, I will make a call this morning and see what I can find out on the trap. Stay tuned to this same Bat (Wing) channel! I hear they have a trap door in there--be careful, Detective!

thanks

For Brad's #170: The "experienced" Sporty riders I've met (not a blanket statement here), are frequently guys on a limited budget who bitch about the bike/results they end up with. A guy up the road here had 13 (!) Sportsters before buying a BMW-K! IMHO they seem the least satisfied of the HD clan, but are caught in a limited vicious circle somehow. After the carbs/exhaust change, it's the cams, then the ignition's gotta be dialed, then a different cam, then, then...heads, that's it! Then..

IMHO they seem the least satisfied of the HD clan Depends on why they buy the bike. If it is lack of funds for a Big Twin without regard to their own real needs, then yes, they may be dissatisfied. Just like folks who buy a Honda VLX when they really want an 1100 Shadow. At least with a Sporty, you have some alteration options. However, there are also a good number of folks buy them because they like them. And I have seen plenty of very nice Sportsters, that I wouldn't mind having myself. Shebee's mate has one--bet he isn't whining! A guy up the road here had 13 (!) Sportsters before buying a BMW-K! Sounds like he must have really liked Sportsters. I think after 13, I might try something else too. After the carbs/exhaust change, it's the cams, then the ignition's gotta be dialed, then a different cam, then, then...heads, that's it! Then.. Then what? Ride it till ya puke or sell it and move on! BTW, the S1 Lighting heads for the Buell are now available for Sportster owners for about $250! KA BOOM!!! NO WHINING!

That's interesting about the Buell heads. But what about the flywheel and cams changes? Wouldn't it be dumb to just swap in the heads alone? Tell us, Master Hogman! The thing about the 13 Sportsters, etc., is that these guys must love wrenching and tinkering more than they let on. I agree there's plenty of nice Sportsters. Know what I like? The 2 companies turning out the mini-STC's & FLH lookalikes based on the small motors. Neat!

Ya Frank, I imagine it would be much less effective to do the heads alone. I just happened across a post on MO indicating that they were now available. I think Eric Buell has shown with the right parts, a Sportster 1200 motor can give even experienced Sportbike riders a fun new twist (as well as a seriously sore butt!). Master Hogman? Hee, maybe when I grow up! I agree with you on the mini-Big Twins. Of course, guys are doing that all the time with the regular Sportsters. It's amazing what you can create from that basic bike. My god, IT'S ALIVE!

Okay.. Now that we have elevated Brad to HogMaster, Does anyone here remember a ground up sportster rebuild one could do called a "45 Magnum". If memory serves me correctly it was 1000 top ends on a 45 CID lower... I had the dang mag somewhere, my thought was the all of your statements are true about the versitility of the Sportster. In fact I consider the 900 to have been my first "Real" motorcyle. It had a lot of personality and best of all IT COOKED!!! hehehe I didn't mind that I had to manually advance for starts, the headlight was always too dim, there was never a decent electrical system, it was still FUN!! I am yet to ride a 1200 sporty but would love to give it a whirl...

Shane--try to get a test ride on a Buell S1 if you want to have some serious fun. I think a lot of dealerships allow Buell tests. Don't try that on any ordinary Harley! hehe Myself--I'd love to take a ride on that Sportster 900--sounds like a total BLAST from the past! As far as the 45 Magnum, can't help ya. Find your magazine and fill us in! Alex, I'll take Sportster trivia for $200 please!

Over here the 45 magnum was iron 900 heads on a 45 bottom end, but i cant se why not with the 1000, I always wanted to put a front cylinder + "thunder head" from a sportster on to an Ariel 500 botttom end - it will go with verry little machining - oh well another "somewhen" project!

Shane "Hot XL" magazine has the ads for that stuff.

Well, if I wanted a Harley (I did at first, but they don't appeal to me much any more) it would be a Sportster Sport. If that name isn't Harley's admission to how far away from the sporting vein the Sporty has gotten, I don't know what is. But the fun, super low end torque engine, fully adjustable suspension, and new larger tank (my '91 1200 riding buddy was afraid to turn down a back road unless he knew there was a gas station on it) would make it the best Harley going. But it's still a low tech design. I agree, though, that a Sporty could be turned into a 916 beater, but for the same money you could probably buy a 916. Let's see, first on the list--new frame. Next, toss the forks and suspension. Make some severe mods to the engine that give it 120 or so horses but cause it to be as reliable as a hand grenade without its pin. No doubt, it would be bad ass, but I wonder why you'd bother modifying a bike out of its element when you can buy a bike with the same sporting credentials new?

For some Jon, half the fun is in the creation. Not to mention that it is still a Harley Davidson (although personally, I love the Duc). Why? Because I can!

Can't imagin that most Harley owners are artists. Not the one that I see. Ther more show off people (but not all of them.) Mods and add-on cost LOT $$$$, after buying a big $$$$ bike. For those who make it a real passion, I agree. But it's not majority.

I really like the wife's (will be wife as of this Saturday) Sporty 1200 Custom. To me it's like a dirt bike with a bad attitude. Keep in mind I'm used to a 650 lb Springer. I wouldn't be able to ride it on a long haul 'cause I'm just too damn big for it. The vibes might get to you on a long haul as well, but for blowing around town it's great. The get up and go is incredible and all I've done is change the pipes (Python 3's) and rejetted the carb. It handles very well (for a HD)and it only weighs 500 lbs. Obviously it's not gonna handle like a Ducati or a ZX but then again it's not made to. I don't think that the 883 would have enough power after getting off a 1200 but then again I haven't ridden one. Goin on a long vaccation to Tahiti, Bora Bora, etc. Ahhhhh, warm weather. I'll see you guys when I get back. Dave Dave's Harley Page http://www.pipeline.com/~pc006

My bike is a 72 BSA Lighting that I have been riding/building for the last three years. It started as a box of engine parts I bought for a 100.00 lots of work and now I have a bike to be proud of. The bike's nickname is My Imagination,it was given to her by a co-worker because every winter I take a hacksaw out and add a little imagination to her. She now sits just over 8 feet long and 4 inchs off the ground, the rake is to extreme to comment, with a 15 inch over gurder and 21 inch front wheel, on the rear is a plunger set-up with a 15 inch wheel, the motor is a 650cc with mukune??? carbs, 40 over bore, boyer ignition and a few trade secrets. She is a blast to ride and turns some heads. Sorry that I can't send a pic. but if you pick up AWOL mag. she was featured in vol.6 no.3

Mikuni carbs?

Spelling is not one of my high points.

Totally classic chopper!

You don't see very many like that any more esp on a BSA platform.Did you you retain the oil in the frame or make your own oil tank.How is it for vibration?The post 71 models were rebalanced and suposed to be smoother. Happy TRAils/NSD Paul

The frame is hand made using the motor carrage from a 64 twin. As for the oil bag, I made a horseshoe by spliting a Harley tank and removing 1.5 inchs from the width and welding it back together. The motor was balanced to run best inbetween 3500 and 5500 rpm. Before this it was a vibration nightmare, my wife has a 65 Splitfire stocker and had the same problem with vibration i guess BSA didn't do a very good job with its crankshafts. Just as a note I would say that the 71-72 model motors were worse not better, have riden and worked on many within are coop. and the older bikes always seem to be smoother. But the 71-72 motor internals are a step-up.

Cool. The only Brit chopper I've ever seen was a BSA that was parked out in front of a bar up here in the hills o' Colorado. It was pretty rough looking, though.

Currently running a ZZ-R1100 (ZXR-11 to those on the American continent) and thouroughly enjoying it! May not be the most precise handling machine of all time but sure does shift. Mike

No, that's just a ZX-11 here, no R.

How bad can it handle for a big heavy powermeister? Tell us? I remember riding the KZ's, the 650 was do-able but the 900 scared hell out of me; I felt i could never think it through a corner, I had to pay close physical attention. The 750R I had for a short while was stable enough for it's bulk. A very decent sport-tourer.

Did someone say KZ??? Loved em all I did and owned a lot of em... GREAT BIKES!!! Glad to see some posting going on here since the X roads is so Network Unfriendly......

No, you've got a crummy network admin. He should be able to allow port 8080, which is the second most popular TCP port for web pages. XRoads isn't the only site using it and their using the proxy to unnecissarily cut off those addresses just doesn't make sense.

Y'know Shane riding the Pantah now, it's hard to believe I ran the Z650. Don't get me wrong I liked it a lot, but the size & weight difference is incredible. The power is actually comparable, both are smooth, and the midrange is really about the same, with the Duc feeling "fatter" somehow from the seat o' my pants. The later KZ's (after 78) were really good bikes.

8080 huh?? Well maybe I will look into it....but to call him crummy would be a bit much. (kinda hard to argue with the pay he makes) So, Why don't Xroads use the MOST popular port?? Frank, What do you think about discontinuing the 900SS?? Have you seen the pic of the 900SS FE?? Pretty cool!! Technology has definitely left the Old heavily muscled, under framed KZ's in the dust... they were bikes you had to RIDE though... And if you didn't ride em right they bit ya....