A place to celebrate one of the world's great folk artists- all-around leftist pinko and unrepentant hippy Arlo Guthrie...as well as other folk artists, from Woody to Cisco, Ramblin'Jack Elliot to Pete Seeger to the Chieftons...

Great movie. Was this in New Hampshire? Is it still around?

Heard on the radio Arlo's Second Anniversary Alice's Restaurant Massacree show will be broadcast Thanksgiving Day at noon, on KLFX (107.3), Killeen... Checked his site, located at http://arlo.net and found more than 60 radio stations around the country are carrying it, including KBRQ Waco (which I think is either 102.3 or 102.5, but I'm not sure)...I've always been able to pick up 107.3 in Austin, though, so it shouldn't shouldn't matter, within a 70 mile or so radius of Killeen... Arlo's site is extremely cool, by the way, well worth checking out... By the way, this year is the thirtieth anniversary of Arlo's first performance of the song, at the Newport(?) Folk Festival...

No, it was Stockdale(?), Mass., I believe, where Arlo still resides...And it was a terrific movie... Forgot to mention that you can access the Folk Music Web Ring from Arlo's site- all kinds of good stuff there, from Indigo Girls (Stacey) to lots of Celtic music sites, Woody's site, appalachian music, etc...Also something called the "Bob Dylan Shrine" (can't you just see him scowl at the notion of that?)... By the way, anyone know where a copy of "Amigo" might be obtained? (I've checked Waterloo for several years, with no luck, and it's a cut-out...)

Oh, and yes, it's still around...Arlo bought it a few years ago, and that's where the concerts actually take place...perhaps a new American (leftist) tradition can be born...

Today's "thought provoking thought", from Arlo: "Lord Krishna told Arjuna what to do. The Lord Jesus told his disciples what to do. Nancy told Ronnie what to do. Everyone tells me what to do..."

definitely thought provoking...

Arlo's Thought-Provoking Thought of the day: "I'm supposed to be singin', but you can't always do what your s'posed to." (i gained a lot of insight from this, by the way... which is why i begin every day with a trip to Arlo's site, gleaning from his indefatigueable well of wisdom... and he is Irish, you know...)

of course

so? whatcha wanna do?

sure......ask me here then leave me all alone *sniff*

Everyone knows and loves "This Land Is Your Land", written, of course, by Arlo's dad, Woody Guthrie... But did you know Woody was a socialist, and that the song was intended as a socialist's rebuttal to Irving Berlin's "God Bless America" (which Woody absolutely detested)? And do you know the verses they hide from you (esp. the third verse), which Woody, near his death-bed, made Arlo promise to always include, and to do his best to prevent people from forgetting? (Woody was terrified the song would be co-opted by the righteous crowd, and used to advance ideas he detested... which was prescient of him, because that is precisely what has happened...) Anyway, these are the third and fourth verses of "God Bless America" (the ones you never hear, nor are likely to unless you catch Arlo or Pete Seeger performing the song): Was a big wall That tried to stop me A sign was painted said Private property But on the other side It don't say nothing That side was made for you and me (chorus) One bright sunny morning In the shadow of a steeple By the relief office I saw my people As they stood hungry I stood wondering If this land was made for you and me (chorus) (God bless Woody)

what? don't make me dance on the tables again...........

sorry 'bout that... got carried away...

ouch... third and fourth verses of "This Land Is Your Land", I obviously meant to say...

(didn't know all that stuff), course, don't know much do I?

Hmmmm...is that a question, or an answer? (just kidding)

now wanta learn the words to the "Internationale"?

sure you are.... so how're you doin today?

spare me, pleeeeeze. am not in a music mood tonite (at least not learning new verses).

Have my kids tonight, which is very cool

me too, all snoozin'. ages please...

I was kidding. (it's a commie song)

Am a Fourierist, though...

hmmmmmm...

what in the heck is that? (pardon my ignorance)

(kidding again) can't help myself someone stop me... (please)

would that be species or genera?

you're in a good mood, where'd that come from?

pseudo-commie, transcendentalist utopian pinko kinda thing... (it's all the rage in Lampasas... half our town council are Fourierists)

uh-huh, and how long have you heard those voices in your head?

like it when you're in good humour

who says I'm in a good mood? sitting here contemplating the revolution of the proletariot... "expropriating the expropriators"... nuking the normans... does that sound like a good mood?

for you? yeah.......

when the knell sounds, baby, the landscape will be bleached with their bones...

if you say so

actually don't know what the hell I'm saying... (I came here to talk about the draft...)

oh?

meet me in "top lp's"...

I actually thought Woody Guthrie wrote "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" until a few months ago. Shows how out of American Folk I am! I also thought he wrote "Okie from Muskogee"! (Bob Zimmerman and Merle Haggard, respectively)

gotta love zimmerman! Just wouldn't know he wrote it unless he "sang" it!

sigh. not you, too... (am i the only person on earth that likes the way he sings?) (hope you had a cool first day, incidently...)

nick: (am i the only person on earth that likes the way he sings?) Possibly so!

so kind of you to point this out... (you should really experience a little more dylan than one record before making up your mind, though... yet i'm perplexed that you could actually prefer the bland harmonies of, say, peter, paul,& mary to dylan ("blowin' in the wind", which you have heard, and which i believe to be a strong, honest dylan vocal)... of course, you will undoubtedly agree that each withers in comparison to jim nabors knowing rendition (jamming with rob reiner, too)...

I saw Arlo play at the Texas Union, it was a wonderful concert. I'd go to hear him again in a heartbeat.

I did prefer Dylan's rendition of "The Times They Are A Changin'" to that of Simon & Garfunkel's version on Wednesday Morning, 3 A. M., which was, quite frankly, a disappointment. "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35" sounds like it'd be right at home in a Clint Eastwood spaghetti western (but not in "Play Misty For Me", the movie whose soundtrack gave Roberta Flack the recognition she deserved) I heard Peter Paul and Mary do "Leaving On A Jet Plane" (which I liked), but I've never heard their version of "Blowin' In The Wind". As for bad singing, I'm a Hendrix fan, remember? Hendrix is worse than Dylan in the singing department!

Never heard Jim Nabors' version either, but I'm sure it's great (Jim Nabors has an excellent voice, except when he talks!) "Blowin' In The Wind" has some of the best singing by Bob Dylan I have ever heard. I can sing better than Dylan, but Dylan wasn't a star because of his singing; I could never write anything close to what Dylan wrote. A friend of mine (who's the biggest Dylan fan I've ever met face to face) once wondered how a man as totally tone deaf as Dylan ever wrote and played such good music. My reply was that he was not tone-deaf but tone-dumb; he could hear & play & appreciate the music, he just flippin' couldn't sing!

I'm truly envious, terry (i'd love to see arlo... hopefully he'll play austin again soon)... sam, sam, sam... repeat after me... dylan is not tone deaf. he can carry a tune nicely. he chooses to sound the way he does for a reason. he is probably the most brilliant songwriter of this century. give him the benefit of the doubt. try to hear the music the way he intended for you to hear it. he's the most challenging musical artist i've ever experienced, but in many ways he's also the most rewarding. (by the way, i think jimi's voice is just fine...)

oh, and i was kidding re: jim nabors (it was awful)

nick:sam, sam, sam... repeat after me... Oh, I'm an excellent mimic! dylan is not tone deaf. I think I said that... he can carry a tune nicely. Will believe it when I hear it. he chooses to sound the way he does for a reason. He likes seeing twisted frowns on his audience's faces? he is probably the most brilliant songwriter of this century. No argument there! give him the benefit of the doubt. try to hear the music the way he intended for you to hear it. he's the most challenging musical artist i've ever experienced, but in many ways he's also the most rewarding. I agree, which is why I suffer thoeugh his singing to hear what he's got to say! BTW, that Dylan album I mentioned: I bought it about a month after first hearing Dylan's singing. The tape I heard (owned by the same woman who marvelled at the difference in quality between Dylan's musicianship and his singing) included some song or other which included the memorable lyrics: "...I knew he lost control When he lit a fire on Main Street And shot it full of holes! He's shooting again, Maw..." I listened to that tape to hear the original version of "All Along The Watchtower", which, until then, I only knew second-hand through Jimi. I marvelled to hear a voice just as bad as, if not worse than, Jimi's! About a month later, I bought Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits. My favourite song on that album is "Subterranean Homesick Blues", although the one I consider to be his best on that album is "The Times, They Are A Changin'" (I like rebel music...) (by the way, i think jimi's voice is just fine...) I wouldn't agree, if I hadn't heard the songs "Have You Ever Been (To Electric Lady Land)" and "Drifting". If Dylan has any songs where his singing is as good as Jimi's is in those two, then maybe I'll change my opinion. Those two songs stioll haven't changed my general opinion of Jimi's singing

sigh. okay... if you honestly believe dylan's audiences are rife with "twisted frowns" (and believe jim nabors leaves 'em begging for more), i can hardly dissuade you... but dylan is the one who changed the standard, forever...a great rock and roll voice is one which sells a song, and an attitude, and sells it in a fundamentally different way than in any other kind of music...it is not always meant to be a "prettified" sound, and in the case of dylan that notion is absurd, and would actually detract from the mu ic (as evidenced by the neutered sound accomplished by the many artists covering his work, with the notable exception of jimi ("watchtower"), and a few others)... i'm not certain what standard it is you're judging these singers by- but if you applied traditional vocal standards to rock and roll, very few would pass muster (maybe because so many vocal mannerisms, etc., derive from dylan, and his legions of emulators)... regardless, it is certainly a matter of taste, and not everyone shares the same (i gran you)... but the central point is valid... dylan sings the way he does on purpose... he possesses a more accessible voice (as i told you, listen to "lay, lady, lay", and you'll hear it), but he chooses to apply a different sound to his lyrics, and it is an essential component of his artistic vision... and you should suspend judgement until you've listened to more of his work (Blood on the Tracks, for ex., or Blonde on Blonde)...if nothing else, consider that Woody Guthrie, one of the most significant figu es in the history of american music, believed that dylan had the best folk music voice he'd ever heard (surely woody knew a thing or two re: that subject)...maybe it's a bad analogy, but i view changing dylan's sound (or suggestions that his voice detracts from it) in much the same way i view those sniping at Picasso or Pollack ("those pictures'd sure be purty if they made any sense")- they're just missing the point. however, if i offended you with anything i said, i'm sorry (was not my intention)...dylan's music is obviously a thing i feel deeply about. oh, and re: that musicianship stuff- even dylan will tell you he's barely adequate with a guitar, and is often rough in his arrangements... so i don't know where that comes from...

I agree with ya, nick, about Dylan. Love almost every song on Blood on the Tracks. Most of the songs usually fit my moods...

thanks, wer (yeah, i'm still drifting in cyberspace...doing poetry junk)

I know I often have a twisted frown when Dylan produces a particularly jarring noise... I have no idea what audiences like. Michael Bolton has sell out concerts, I will never understand why; his singing is no better than Dylan's, and unlike Dylan he has nothing to say. I have no idea what you judge singing by, but whether by melody or by clarity Dylan falls somewhat short IMO. I will, however, try to find "Lay Lady Lay" as I said, there are not many Dylan fans in Jamaica) The most monumentous moment in rock & roll history, IMO, was the meeting of Dylan and the Beatles. Neither folk nor rock was ever the same again. About those "Neutered" versions, is Manfred Mann's "The Mighty Quinn" one, or an exception. The fundamental music is generally good, and understandable (in sharp contrast to...) BTW I am no fan of Picasso. The one Picasso painting I like is Guernica, mainly because it does look like what one would expect a town being bombed at the time it is being bombed (does anyone really know what reality looks like when the bombs are actually falling? Can anyone who knew firsthand actually remember? It probably looks like that!) I miss the point, and am therefore not impaled.

yes, i understand... and the world is filled with non-picasso fans... yet it is not necessary (or shouldn't be) to like his stuff to appreciate his talent, and certainly it's contribution to art. and in this fashion, the analogy is dead-on, because picasso helped revolutionize art in much the same way dylan did the way music was written (and vocalized)... one may not be crazy for it, but it seems a little facile to dismiss him (and/or the generation of artists in his wake) because of a mainly visceral re ction to his work... don't understand the michael bolton thing, either, but then i've never understood the appeal of much pop music... bolton is no better or worse than most, and to his credit, does not seem to make pretensions of being an "artiste"... however, i have to admit, on that visceral level (which is probably the only level competent to judge his work), he brings out the beavis in me (when i see his face on television, i'm apt to shriek, cover my face with one hand, reach desperately for the remote control with the other)... and yeah, manfred mann's "quinn" was competently done (and really isn't a typical dylan song, anyway... really required a more pop oriented sound)... liked the movie, however, much better than the song...

I do not dismiss Dylan. No one can dismiss Dylan, he has said and done too much for anyone to dismiss him. He has a rock solid place in the history of music and culture. I just don't happen to think he can sing! And I still listen to his songs in spite of this! I will try to find "Lay Lady Lay" and listen to his singing. BTW, I listened to that Greatest Hits album again this morning, and I must admit that Dylan's voice is entertaining; I always laugh at it when I hear "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35"! It's so bad it's funny! "Blowing In The Wind" and "The Times They Are A Changin'" were done quite competently (but not much more than that) and then came another hilarity, "It Ain't Me, Babe", which made me wonder if the singing were as much intended to repel the girl as the words were! I once again thought that "Like A Rolling Stone" might sound better if it was read as poetry (then again, could one tell the difference?) I identify greatly with the lyrics to "Mr. Tambourine Man", but I still think that Dylan must have been heavily stoned when he recorded it! "Subterranean Homesick Blues" sounds quite at home in this day and age of rap music. "I Want You"; what can I say about it? What is all that verbal imagery trying to say? "Positively 4th Street" is Dylan telling off some hypocrite or another and is quite clear. I always avoid "Just Like A Woman"; it tics me off for some not yet understood!

really? that's interesting (your reaction to "just like a woman")... i think it is achingly beautiful... it's the kind of song i would think every guy could identify with, as regards to at least one woman he's known (know i do)... "rainy day woman" does succeed, i guess, from the vantage point you referenced... other than that, i really don't care for it (one of the few dylan tunes that'll cause me to change the dial)... the greatest hits volume you mentioned is a solid record, but i think the second GH package was superior, as was Biograph, and numerous of his studio produced LP's... lots of stuff on these you probably haven't heard, which i'm certain you'd enjoy... but don't buy an album just to hear "lay, lady, lay"... (it's probably on both the second GH pck., as well as Biograph, though i can't remember)... the studio-LP it originates from is Nashville Skyline, which, along with Self Portrait, rates as the most dismal crap he's ever produced (N.S. is actually "dylan goes nashville"- what an idea- with chet atkins producing, i think... with the exc. of "lay, lady, lay", it is pretty much a waste of time)...

I'll try to listen to "Just Like A Woman" again, to try and figure my reaction out. After I listen to Dylan's version, I'll listen to the version on Side B of Roberta Flack's single "Killing Me Softly With His Song".

I'll look for Greatest Hits Volume II

nice touch (roberta flack)... (sigh)

Ever heard the Tejano version of "Quinn"? Chinga!

no, haven't heard it, wer... what signifies "chinga"? (would make a nice battle cry, though- you know, barbarianizing the planet, and all)

Mexican expletive best described on here as "sex"...

i've been to nuevo laredo... it's definitely sex...

Boys Town? Nuevo Laredo as a whole spoke more to me as 'extreme poverty' Matamoros smelled more like sex, maybe it was just the location!

Arlo's Thought Provoking Thought of the Day: "If readers understand that they do not understand what they're reading then they must possess an understanding which is superior to the meaning which caused that misunderstanding." (i think this rather settles that whole question, don't you?)

Oh, where's Stacey when we need her?

She should be getting to Austin about now. Hope we hear from her!

That's not a unanimous hope...

Ouch! What's got you so upset today, Sam? You know, you can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant. ('cepting Alice. Trying to stay on topic for you, too, Sam *wink*)

Uh oh.

Anything we want? Well, let me have a looksee at that menu again!

Uh oh.