~AlFor
Wed, Dec 24, 2003 (21:35)
seed
Which bands or group had a well-respected member leave and be replaced by someone even better, thus improving the success, quality and/or popularity of the band rather than reducing it as had been predicted?
~AlFor
Wed, Dec 24, 2003 (21:35)
#1
My examples:
Dave Guilmore (sp?), replacing Syd Barrett as the lead guitarist of Pink Floyd
Curtis Mayfield, replacing Jerry Butler as the lead singer of The Impressions
Phil Collins, replacing Peter Gabriel first as drummer and then as lead singer of Genesis
Paul McCartney, replacing Stuart Sutcliffe as the bassist for The Beatles (then again, McCartney was a founding member and Sutcliffe wasn't. Besides which, McCartney was an obvious improvement over Sutcliffe from the start.)
To a lesser extent:
Sammy Hagar, replacing David Lee Roth as lead singer of Van Halen
Mick Taylor, replacing Brian Jones as lead guitarist of The Rolling Stones
Ringo Starr, replacing Pete Best as drummer of The Beatles (it is rumoured that Best was a better drummer than Starr, it's even rumoured that McCartney was and is a better drummer than Starr!)
Keith Richards, replacing Dave Davies as rhythm guitarist of The Rolling Stones (is this true?)
~pmnh
Thu, Jan 1, 2004 (20:21)
#2
Keith Richards, replacing Dave Davies as rhythm guitarist of The Rolling Stones (is this true?)
never heard that one
(davies as in kinks davies?)
always read that richards and jagger co-founded the stones
i think that stuff about pete best isn't credible...
george martin (who knows a thing or two about how a drummer
should perform) has always said that best was inadequate...
he believed ringo was, and that's really all there was to
that... i have read that mccartney sometimes overdubbed
ringo's drums, though...
~AlFor
Thu, Jan 1, 2004 (23:27)
#3
Dave Davies (later of the Kinks) was a member of the Rolling Stones. Maybe he was there at the same time as Keith and Brian, maybe Brian ditched him for Keith, I am not sure what happened.
The Rolling Stones was founded by a man calling himself Elmo Lewis, but whose real name was Brian Lewis Hopkins-Jones. He put an ad in the paper for musicians to form a blues band to cover authentic American blues. He named his band "The Rolling Stones" after the Muddy Waters song "Rolling Stone". The auditions for the band were the occasion for a chance meeting between two high-school chums, Michael "Mick" Jagger and Keith Richards. Jones's band, whose lineup varied a bit at the beginning, was the house band at the Crawdaddy, a London blues club. They eventually got a manager named Andrew Loog Oldham who promoted Mick and Keith and encouraged them to write songs. Under Oldham's influence, and with hits flowing from Jagger & Richards (initially under the pseudonyms Nanker & Phlege), the duo wrested control from a disintegrating Brian Jones. They eventually sent Jones packing and replaced him with Mick Taylor of John Mayall's Blues Breakers (the band that replaced the Stones as the house band for the
rawdaddy). Shortly before the Stones first performance with Mick Taylor, Brian Jones died in his swimming pool under mysterious circumstances. The death was officially listed as a misadventure while under the influence of narcotics, but there are some who believe it may have been murder. Only the biggest conspiracy-theory crackpots believe that the Stones had him hit; most murder theorists believe that a contractor who had worked on his lands was responsible.
It is said that Martin believed Best was unacceptable, but mostly due to his demeanour rather than to his drumming ability. As a result, a swap similar to the later Matlock/Vicious swap with The Sex Pistols was executed and a superior musician was replaced by an inferior musician for the sake of style.
~pmnh
Sat, Jan 3, 2004 (22:55)
#4
It is said that Martin believed Best was unacceptable, but mostly due to his demeanour rather than to his drumming ability
that's just not so
martin had no problem with best playing live gigs (if the band didn't care,
he didn't)... in the studio, though, he insisted that best be replaced
by a session drummer...
he found ringo's performance sufficient, and he has
consistently said so... and while it's true that he thought best was a little
dull(not just musically, but intellectually) compared to the others (and
who wouldn't? have you ever listened to the guy?), the studio was all he
cared about- the rest was brian epstein's domain...
the first single, 'love me do', had the session guy's
drumwork... the second, and all those thereafter (with the exception of those
supposed mccartney overdubs), ringo's... if all he was concerned about was
best's 'demeanor' (quiet and dumb), he certainly wouldn't have gone to the
trouble and expense of replacing best on that first track... and if he really
believed best was ringo's superior musically, what sense does it make that
he let ringo drum on the records? the fact that he did proves the point...
(umm, that and the fact that he has always said so)...
anyway, i sort of equate the cult of pete best with the flat-earthers...
kind of an ann coulter-joe mccarthy thing...
Dave Davies (later of the Kinks) was a member of the Rolling Stones
interesting, i didn't know that
(small circle those guys ran in, wasn't it?)
~AlFor
Sun, Jan 4, 2004 (12:51)
#5
I guess further proof to your argument was that Best ended up washing dishes for a living. If he had been a good drummer, he could have continued on session work, like Peter Frampton did. Then again, that's not really a good indicator; Peter Green and Syd Barrett had similar downfalls, although Green's case might have involved insanity (Barrett's definitely did...)
~pmnh
Sat, Jan 24, 2004 (02:03)
#6
Best ended up washing dishes for a living
yeah, i remember reading something about that... really sad
(remember reading in rolling stone awhile back that the lead guy from the boxtops was washing dishes, too)...
peter green and syd barrett were both very talented guys, i agree... and in spite of the bad breaks, they're remembered for their contributions...
frampton, of course, had great success when his chance came around, because the music worked... best has fronted a few bands since, and had no success beyond novelty status, probably because the music didn't work (i say probably because i've never heard any of it that i can remember)...
~AlFor
Sat, Jan 24, 2004 (12:50)
#7
I recently saw a "greatest hits" compilation for Fleetwood Mac and "Black Magic Woman" was not mentioned. It was as if Peter Green had never existed.