From the little bit I've been reading about the NJ governor, I'm starting to like him. ;-)

I was just doing a bit of superficial background research on Corzine and came across info about Forrester flip-flopping on stem cell research. Talk about pandering... And Forrester would've been better than Corzine how? Seriously, I'm curious what's so negative about Corzine and positive about Forrester. Beside the obvious. ;-) And according to that NYT article you printed Linda.... Mr. Corzine, who has enjoyed wide support among union leaders in New Jersey and in Washington since his election to the Senate in 2000. Why would he need to pander or play to the unions? He already had their support before he ran for governor.

Corzine was against the bankruptcy bill, a position I wholly support. Horrible, horrible law.

Born in central Illinois, Corzine grew up on a small family farm near Taylorville. After completing high school he attended the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign for his undergraduate degree, where he was a member of the Phi Delta Theta Fraternity, and graduated in 1969. ~~~~~~~~ Wonder if he's related to Dave Corzine who played basketball.

I used to go out with a Phi Delt, but your gov graduated before I got there.

NJ is back in business. I couldn't stand Doug Forrester and this budget standoff isn't about Dem v. Republican. The revolt in the assembly was by his own party. Dems hold the majority in both the assembly and the senate including the office of the Governor. Corzine had only 13 leglislators to go along with his sales tax increase before the compromise. My beef was that Cody, an excellent intermim Gov. should have been given the nod to run. But JC decided he wanted it and with his money-NJ wasn't about to let him not have his way. Cody was very gracious and said he didn't need to run at this age-he's in his 50's and not old, at all. However, Cody as Pres. of the Senate would have been the likely nominee--until JC started making noises that he was leaving his senate seat to run for Gov. That's politics, but Cody, IMO, based on his performance as acting Gov--was an excellent choice for the job. (Dorine)Why would he need to pander or play to the unions? He already had their support before he ran for governor. Right, they were already on board from his run for Senator.

that's a reference to funding pension plans. And there's nothing wrong with committing to funding one's obligations (i.e., pension plans) I would hate to have my tax$$$ go to pay that tatoo guy's pension. Sounds to me like it's a big bloated personnel pit. Hey, anybody can balance a budget by taxing the citizens to death. Not v. creative. Why would he need to pander or play to the unions? He already had their support before he ran for governor. But he has "higher aspirations";-) ROTF. Only objection I have to my gov is that he jumps to the teacher's union beckoning call. I haven't been to these other spring topics in years...they're so wordy ...and boring.

I couldn't stand Doug Forrester and this budget standoff isn't about Dem v. Republican. The revolt in the assembly was by his own party. Actually, I do realize that and did point out that irony in a post that didn't go through awhile ago when my wireless crapped out and didn't bother to repost. That's too bad about Cody if he was that good. Happened in quite a few Senate primary races, I think Ohio was one, most recently. The party machine gets behind someone else and what can they do? What was McGreevey like? Cody, IMO, based on his performance as acting Gov--was an excellent choice for the job But did that automatically make Corzine wrong for the job, or Forrester any more right for the job, since they were what was left? Or did it become a lesser of 2 evils? Right, they were already on board from his run for Senator. I'm still not understanding why support from the unions and his wanting...actually needing by contract to fund the pension funds, is a problem.

They all jump to someone's beck and call. Some of them are called constituents. (Evelyn) ther spring topics.... they're so wordy ...and boring. So you won't read my posts here then? ;-D

Linda, I agree that Cody did an excellent job. I liked his wife too; she really shined a spotlight on postpartum depression, talking about her own experience and how women don't have to be ashamed of those feelings, and advocating for mental health services. They both were aces with me. But I had the impression that they didn't want that public a life. I could be wrong. They certainly never sought it, with him inheriting the job from Gov. Jim "I am a gay American" McGreevy.;-)(And ya'll thought NJ was boring.;-) (Karen)Born in central Illinois, Corzine grew up on a small family farm near Taylorville. And became a self-made gazillionnaire. Only in America.;-) As the former head of Goldman Sachs, I figure he knows how to run a business and he knows how to manage money.

(Mari) I figure he knows how to run a business and he knows how to manage money. That's why I liked Bloomberg for Mayor, though many didn't. I figured we especially needed someone like that just after 9/11 with the financial straits we got into.

Just to keep you up to date: The compromise that was reached today was crafted by Cody--last Thursday, and rejected by Corzine who then went ahead and shut down the state. Joe Roberts (Speaker of the House) and Corzine were at odds on how the revenue of the sales tax was to be spent. JR wanted all of it to go to property tax relief. (Actually he wanted no sales tax increase in the first place) Gov said no. My belief is that if he accepted it then he lost control over where the money went, and he had different plans for that money. Cody came up with the compromise of 1/2 to pay the deficit the other 1/2 to property tax. So, why wasn't this OK six days ago? Amazing.

(Dorine)The party machine gets behind someone else and what can they do? Exactly what happened here. Sad, really. But the same thing happened on the Republican side for this same race. Doug Forrester also has tons of personal wealth (not in the Corzine category). One really good guy, Brent Shundler, lost the nomination for the same reasons. DF had the money and just out spent the rest of the field. (Dorine)What was McGreevey like? Don't ask;-)I'm sure you know most of this- He stepped down and blamed it on the fact he was a gay American. Bollocks! The fact that he was living with his wife and put his gay lover in charge of homeland security to the tune of 150,000 a year, with no bloody experience, is what did him in. The papers had it and the s**t was going to hit the fan the next day.

(Dorine)I'm still not understanding why support from the unions and his wanting...actually needing by contract to fund the pension funds, is a problem. It's not, unless you're going to raise the sales tax to do it at a time when his first priority, according to the man himself, as Governor was to find a way to reduce property taxes and reduce the deficit. The pension funds have been underfunded for years. That's a crime, and should not be allowed, but all of a sudden that became his priority. Bravo to the legislators who had the guts to stand up to him. However its not going to stop, here. We're damn lucky if we get away with just a one percent hike in sales tax.

Yes, I know all about that stuff with McGreevey (but thanks for updating all those who had no idea ;-)). That's not what meant. I wanted to know what he was like as a Gov in all areas. according to the man himself, as Governor was to find a way to reduce property taxes and reduce the deficit. Yeah, but realistically, how is he going to accomplish both without increasing some kind of revenue to make up for the property tax cuts, yet still reduce the deficit? I don't see how that's financially possible. Isn't that against some law of physics? ;-) And wait a minute, why are the legislators the heroes? They were just as stubborn and unyielding with their demands as you indicated above and both sides compromised in the end. No offense, I'm not feeling too bad for your sales tax hike. We pay anywhere from 7 - 9 1/2% depending on what county you're in (ours is 8.375% - odd amount). I haven't lived a 6% sales tax state in years. *sigh* Those were the days. ;-)

And why does your name come out different here?

(Mari) And became a self-made gazillionnaire. Only in America.;-) As the former head of Goldman Sachs, I figure he knows how to run a business and he knows how to manage money. Yup, pretty impressive: His first experience in business was in the Bond Department at Continental-Illinois National Bank in Chicago. He then moved to Bank One, a regional bank in Columbus, Ohio. He worked there until 1975 when he moved his family to New Jersey. There he was hired as a bond trader for Goldman Sachs. Over the years, he worked his way up to Chairman and CEO of the company in 1994 and successfully converted the investment firm from a private partnership to a worldwide publicly traded corporation. He received numerous awards and recognition for his job including being in the TIME magazine Top 50 Technology Executives in 1997. In the Senate, Corzine was a member of the Committees on Banking, Intelligence, the Budget, and Energy and Natural Resources. He co-authored the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, a piece of legislation designed to crack down on corporate malfeasance. He was a supporter of introducing legislation that reforms the 401(k) plan to minimize the risk of investment portfolios. He was a sponsor of the Start Healthy, Stay Healthy Act which expands health care coverage for children and pregnant women. Corzine supported providing a two-year tax break to September 11, 2001 attacks victims to help them recover financially and help grant citizenship to victims that were legal resident aliens. He supported tighter gun control laws, outlawing racial profiling, and subsidies for Amtrak. He was also the chief sponsor, along with U.S. Senator Sam Brownback, of the Darfur Accountability Act, which would apply sanctions on the Sudanese government and create a framework for addressing the genocide occurring in the Darfur region. He was also o e of 23 Senators to vote against the Iraq War Resolution. One of Corzine's earliest acts as governor was to propose a budget that would decrease New Jersey's deficit. Corzine hopes to accomplish this goal mainly through spending cuts [citation needed]. Corzine has called for an increase in the state sales tax (from 6% to 7%) [Ed note: my sales tax is 9%] and an increase in cigarette tax (which would make it the highest of any state in the nation, at $2.75 per pack, but not the highest in the nation altogether, as New York City levies a $1.50/pack tax in addition to New York State's $1.50). Corzine's budget also proposes to cut state financing to higher education by $169 million, leading students of New Jersey state universities to expect future tuition hikes. Rutgers University president Richard L. McCormick has stated that "the proposed cuts could leave the University with $100 million less than what it requires to operate". McCormick also specified that "if the University were to compensate for the funding cuts solely by raising tuition, the tuition would increase by 31 percent". [1] [2] Other proposed cuts have been to the Governor's School of New Jersey, which provided unique learning opportunities for select high school students each summer. The program has, however, been revived through private contributions, excluding such programs as visual arts. Not all of the Governor's School cuts will be in effect for the summer of 2006. (Evelyn) I would hate to have my tax$$$ go to pay that tatoo guy's pension. So, your governor gets your personal approval for every hire? Wow!! BTW, people like tatoo guy usually don't stay in the system long enough to collect a pension. ;-) It must be nice to live in a state/county/city with 100 percent highly productive governmental employees, no nepotism, no patronage, no federally subsidized pork barrel projects, federally subsidized bottomless pits of welfare funding, etc. Ah...a parallel universe. ;-)

Names? Make sure on the main page of the News conference that it is exactly how you want it. http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/news/all Just type in what you want and click on the button to the right. Don't worry if you get an error type screen, it will likely go through fine. People can have different names in different conferences.

WSJ Today editorial on "The Jersey Boys" interesting stats:sources: Census Bureau , Tax Foundation State Rank Property Tax Burden 1 State/Local Taxes 4 State Gov't Debt 10 Business Friendliness 49

I wasn just reading the Broadwayword.com thread Dorine provided. NJ doesn't have sales tax on food or clothing!! Sheesh! Sales tax here in Chicago is 9%. Food (real, not junk varieties) and drugs are taxed at a lower rate, 2%, but clothing gets the full 9%. In fact, fast food places have an extra 1 percent.

Meds are taxed???!! They really do take the last drop of blood from you, don't they.

How and why the extra on fast food places? Our tax on clothing was abolished last year or so for good for up to $110. It used to be a twice a year thing (No Tax Week) to go without taxation on clothes for that amount, but it was made permanent. Corzine does sound quite impressive as a Senator. Didn't know, but love he co-authored Sarbanes-Oxley. Not so great about the educational cuts for universities, but I've lived in several states where that's always on the table unfortunately, including here. Well, after so many years of corruption and malfeasance, I don't see how he can fix it all overnight. It's an ugly painful process.

With the names...I asking why Linda's was different here than elsewhere.

Found this at a blog, from Nov '05. Interesting description of the "machines" (of ? Is it just another word for local govts?) in ....are these counties? The actual point to the blog was who Corzine would pick for his Senate seat. --As I wrote in reference to Menendez, political corruption and the machine bosses were a key line of attack for the state's Republicans this cycle. With Menendez tied to the Hudson machine and Andrews linked with George Norcross, I have trouble imagining them as Corzine's picks. The others are seen as far more independent. Gill and Codey have both sparred with the Essex machine (Gill much more so). Pallone has tangled a bit with Middlesex boss John Lynch (whose office was raided by the FBI this week). And Rush Holt is squeaky clean, having absolutely zero ties to any machine.-- http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/11/11/135156/56

(Dorine) How and why the extra on fast food places? A "convenience" tax. ;-))) (Evelyn) Meds are taxed???! Maybe not the prescription kind, just OTC. (Dorine) With the names...I asking why Linda's was different here than elsewhere. Because she needs to go fix it on the main conference page. 'Machine' is another word for a political organization, with a defined boss and workers whose jobs depend on patronage. BTW, the boss doesn't have to be an elected official. It can be a behind-the-scenes guy, the kingmaker, the guy in the smoke-filled rooms.

Gotcha. I wasn't sure if they were referring to the local govt, or as you say, the behind-the-scenes people or whichever depending on the locality. Like if one county or locality had a very powerful Dem or Repub organization that had some power, that would qualify, correct?

(Dorine)With the names...I asking why Linda's was different here than elsewhere. LOL, I want to be incognito, here. You blew my cover;-) (Dorine)They were just as stubborn and unyielding with their demands as you indicated above and both sides compromised in the end. Yes, they were and no one is a hero, here. Joe Roberts will probably get his head handed to him, but they at least stood up and forced JC to spend the sales tax revenue on deficit and property tax relief. There was almost no support for the tax hike in the first place. You tell me how we can have casinos bringing in 11.3 billion a year in tax revenue and a huge state lottery, and be this far into debt. It's a mess-not of his making, and won't be easy to fix. But, more taxes, on an already overburdened state is hard to swallow. The assembly and senate approved spending cuts upwards of 2.1 billion, before the shut down-cutting the deficit in half. That's why I'm angry that he shut down the state. Karen was right it was the option that would get the most attention, but he had other ways to go. They need to solve the deficit problem with more cuts. 2.1 billion still leaves tons of money being spent on frivilous programs and dead woods. Use the casino revenue and pay down the deficit, immediately. I find it shameful that they made such huge cuts in higher education. There was plenty of other stuff they could have gone after. (Dorine)No offense, I'm not feeling too bad for your sales tax hike. No offense taken.

You tell me how we can have casinos bringing in 11.3 billion a year in tax revenue and a huge state lottery, and be this far into debt. How could I make a really good salary (more than I ever have) and still be in debt? It makes headway, but won't erase it overnight. It just keeps up with it. I'm still trying to makeup from being essentially underfunded the past 2 years. Or actually way underfunded for several months 2 years ago. Obviously it's being spent on something. Not saying it's all worthwhile, but it's going out somewhere. How many billions is the budget? (rhetorical question) 11 billion a year toward the workings of a state as large as NJ could be a drop in the bucket. And I'll tell ya, lotteries don't always bring in enough either or don't cover what they were intended all the time. That was a big deal in Florida. Was supposed to go to fill education coffers. Didn't do as much there as they'd hoped and promised, they still don't have enough to build all the schools they need. The phenomenal population growth down there in the past decade or 2 didn't help. It couldn't keep up. And there's no income tax down there. Sales tax is 6-7% depending on county. Gosh, I remember when it was 5% many moons ago. I agree that more taxes on top of all yours are hard to swallow. I get tired when they raise the maintenance charges on my apt seemingly every year to pay for some building repair or whatever, even though I live in one of the nicer bldgs in the neighborhood and want to keep it that way. I don't have a choice other than to move, though mine is actually better than comparable apts in other bldgs. tons of money being spent on frivilous programs and dead woods. There's always pork. At every level of government. No offense taken. I'm glad. :-D *mwah!*

Pfft, and putting your last name is real incognito, LOL. ;-)

Let's gwet the numbers straight. The casinos do *not* bring in 11.3 billion a year in tax revenue. Nowhere near that. From the state's offical numbers: The 12 Atlantic City casinos generate about $16 million each day in gambling revenue for their operators. During the shutdown, the state has lost about $1.3 million in casino gambling tax revenue per day. So, less than 1/2 billion in annual tax revenue. Not 11 billion. *Big* difference.;-) And, as recently as Tuesday, Roberts was telling Corzine that the "compromise" legislation did not have the votes for approval. It was after the casinos and non-essentials were shut down that the public screamed and the legislators came to the table.

(Linda) You tell me how we can have casinos bringing in 11.3 billion a year in tax revenue and a huge state lottery, and be this far into debt. You've brought up a major sore point for me: state lotteries! In Illinois, they were instituted to provide additional funding for education (ours is totally state funded and dispersed, not by locale as many people here think). Instead, what the bozos do is reduce the amount of money in the state budget for education so that the lottery money is primary source of funding. It's a total hoax. The portion people pay from their property taxes that is supposed to go toward education is going into a general fund that the state uses for whatever it wants ("friends and family plan"). It's a mess-not of his making, and won't be easy to fix. But, more taxes, on an already overburdened state is hard to swallow.

(Evelyn) Meds are taxed???! (Karen)Maybe not the prescription kind, just OTC. That is correct, over the counter stuff only. No tax on prescription meds, food or clothing. (Dorine) realistically, how is he going to accomplish both without increasing some kind of revenue to make up for the property tax cuts, yet still reduce the deficit? I don't see how that's financially possible. Isn't that against some law of physics? ;-) Dorine, stay in NY. You're too smart to live in NJ.;-) You are right, of course. It's robbing from Peter to pay Paul. Squeeze the balloon in one place and it pops out at another. This is nothing more than political cover for the Dems in the legislature so they can go back to their districts and say, "look, I got your property taxes reduced" and get re-elected in November. What's the old expression? You can pay me now, or pay me later, but you'll pay me.

(Dorine) I don't see how that's financially possible. Isn't that against some law of physics? ;-) It has a name, actually two names: Reaganomics and Voodoo Economics. ;-)

(Dorine) Pfft, and putting your last name is real incognito, LOL. ;-) LOL, I never touched it. I posted and there it was;-) Thank you Mari on correcting my casino revenue numbers. And where would we (NJ) be without what the casinos do generate? Still in all we should not be in this mess. What about the states with no gambling and surplus on record. Pork? Loads of it.

I think you need an amendment to your constitution to make a balanced budget mandatory. We pump our surplus into a "rainy day fund" All of us would like to fund higher education to the hilt...hell, make it free. Social programs...let's go wild.... But prudent minds have to prevail. Better float those bonds . Let the games begin;-)

The state constitution requires a balanced budget be approved by Saturday, when the new fiscal year starts. http://www.nj.com/newsflash/statehouse/index.ssf?/base/news-20/1151243956121500.xml&storylist=njxgr

(Linda) And where would we (NJ) be without what the casinos do generate? Perhaps previous administrations and legislatures would've curbed spending a bit with less revenue. Not saying they would've been out of debt or had various spending programs, just spent less simply because they weren't counting on more.

"The state constitution requires a balanced budget be approved by Saturday, when the new fiscal year starts." LOL And it looks like they wanted to add *more* programs despite not having receipts to cover the existing ones. *slapping head*..."marone"

Our state legislature ignores our constitutional mandate, too. And ditto on the spending programs as well as wanting to significantly curtail Medicaid and education.

Corzine Ends 8-Day New Jersey Shutdown By RICHARD G. JONES and DAVID W. CHEN Published: July 8, 2006 TRENTON, July 8 �- Gov. Jon S. Corzine signed an executive order early Saturday ending an eight-day government shutdown and resolving an acidic standoff with the Legislature that paralyzed New Jersey, frayed nerves and cost the state millions of dollars. Shortly after New Jersey lawmakers approved a budget Saturday morning, Gov. Jon S. Corzine ended a weeklong state shutdown. The order meant that nearly 100,000 workers including 45,000 state employees could begin returning to their jobs. Although government offices like the Motor Vehicle Commission were not expected to reopen until Monday, the 12 Atlantic City casinos the most high-profile casualties of the shutdown re-opened Saturday morning. Other services including road construction projects, the operation of state parks and state-run beaches were to begin a gradual process of reopening Sunday. The New Jersey Lottery was scheduled to resume sales immediately. The state�s courts, which had been ordered to handle only emergency matters, were expected to resume full services again Monday morning. �The lives of the people of New Jersey can now, at long last, begin to return to normal,� a bleary-eyed Mr. Corzine said shortly after 6 a.m. Mr. Corzine, who was wearing jeans, added that he was working on three hours of sleep. Although Mr. Corzine signed the order, he had not yet signed the $30.9 billion budget that was approved by both houses of the Legislature overnight. He said that he would review the budget carefully and hinted that he might use his line-item veto powers to remove items that he felt were undeserving. �We�re going to do a thorough and professional job,� Mr. Corzine said. The shutdown was a result of an impasse between Mr. Corzine and the Legislature over the budget for the new fiscal year. Although the impact of the shutdown was blunted early this week by the Independence Day holiday, the budget crisis reached a crescendo Wednesday when the casinos were closed down for the first time in the 28 years that gambling has been legal in Atlantic City. The state lost $1.2 million a day in casino tax revenue and $2 million a day in revenue from the lottery, officials said. On Thursday, the impasse was finally broken when Mr. Corzine reached an agreement with the speaker of the General Assembly, Joseph J. Roberts Jr., on a proposal to raise the sales tax to 7 percent from 6 percent. Under a compromise, Mr. Corzine agreed to use half of the revenue from the increase � or about $550 million � to help offset the state�s property tax rates, which are among the highest in the nation. Mr. Corzine also agreed to allow Mr. Roberts to put forth a ballot question for an amendment to the state�s Constitution guaranteeing that the money would be used to offset property tax rates. The governor and the Legislature agreed on additional budget cuts to make up for the money would go to property tax relief. The budget was passed after an all-night debate by the Legislature. The budget votes largely ran along party lines. But one Republican senator, William L. Gormley, of Atlantic County whose constituents were most directly affected by the casino shutdown, joined the Democratic majority in supporting the bill. The budget passed the Senate by a vote of 23-to-17. In the Assembly, where opposition to Mr. Corzine�s tax plan had been the stiffest, the vote was 44-to-35. Six Democrats voted against the budget but Mr. Corzine picked up the support of one Republican, Francis J. Blee, also of Atlantic County. Supporters of the budget had a given tense moment during another Assembly vote shortly after 3 a.m. When the bill to increase the sales tax was being considered, two Democratic Assemblymen from Middlesex County, Joseph Vas and John Wisniewski, refused to immediately cast their votes for the measure in an apparent protest. Without their votes, the Assembly tally in support of the sales tax bill, a lynchpin of the budget , stood at 39-38 for roughly 10 minutes before the men cast their �yes� votes. [Ed. note: Making them sweat bullets. :-(]If they had voted no, the measure would have failed. The Assembly�s final vote on the budget, around 5:30 Saturday morning, came about an hour after the Senate�s vote. (Page 2 of 2) �It�s been a grueling process, thank God it�s over,� Mr. Roberts said, moments after the Assembly vote. �It�ll be good for the Legislature to have the credibility to get this done and it�s great for the state and the folks who have been inconvenienced and struggled while the state has been shut down.� Saturday morning�s votes ended the most contentious budget season here in memory. The dispute centered on Mr. Corzine�s plan to use money from the sales tax increase to help close a $4.5 billion deficit. Besides the intensity of the opposition over the sales tax increase, the budget debate was particularly noteworthy because all of the major players, including Mr. Corzine and Mr. Roberts, are Democrats. Democrats, who control both houses of the Legislature, have said for weeks that they fear the potential political consequences of the sales tax increase. That is not an abstract fear. Few members of the party need to be reminded how Democrats lost control of the Legislature after Gov. Jim Florio approved tax increases in 1990. The increase that was approved Saturday is the first rise to the sales tax since then. It expected to raise about $1.1 billion in revenue and, according to various estimates, will cost New Jersey families, on average, about $275 a year. The budget also includes about $700 million in additional revenue from expanding old taxes or establishing new ones. Among them are increases to the tax on cigarettes, from $2.40 to $2.57; a rise in the corporate business tax; expanding the sales tax on magazines and security services; and a new sales tax on fur coats and other items with fur. Democratic lawmakers also added about $300 million in spending for special projects on Friday, money that Republicans urged Mr. Corzine to remove through his veto powers. [ :-( ] Assemblyman Kevin J. O�Toole, a Bergen County Republican, said that the last-minute additions were an example of �Democrats behaving badly.� [Potentially agree] Mr. Roberts rejected that. �The projects that are in the budget need to be able to stand on their own and be defended one by one,� he said. �I think that these are all projects that may serve local needs in individual counties and districts but I think they represent very substantial and worthwhile projects.� Saturday�s vote marked the latest that a budget had ever been passed in New Jersey. The constitutional deadline is at midnight at the end of the fiscal year, June 30. When that deadline lapsed last week without a budget agreement in place, Mr. Corzine signed an order to begin the closure of so-called �non-essential� state operations and ordered roughly 45,000 state employees to be furloughed without pay. That money may yet be recouped. Mr. Corzine has indicated that he would support a measure by the Legislature to pay state employees for time missed during the shutdown. Early Saturday morning, the governor thanked New Jerseyans for their �forbearance� and once again apologized for the disruption that was caused by the shutdown. But he has said that the shutdown was necessary to resolve the budget dispute without resorting to one-year solutions to the deficit that would undermine the state�s long-term fiscal stability. While many analysts scored the budget debate as an important victory for Mr. Corzine, there has also been speculation about the potential political repercussions for himself and the Democrats. Asked how quickly his party could start to try to heal any possible rifts with voters � or within their own ranks, Mr. Roberts said, �We�re going to begin right away.� Laura Mansnerus contributed reporting from Trenton for this article. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/08/nyregion/08cnd-jersey.html?ex=1310011200&en=15cfd522a1c88082&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss

"Mr. Corzine has indicated that he would support a measure by the Legislature to pay state employees for time missed during the shutdown. " How noble;-)...*but* descriminating.. How about the casino workers and all the people who support the casinos. As long as this is the Big Give-A-Way...that's the least he could do;-) "Cheap Skate"

ROTF...and they elected this clown? NY TIMES http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/04/nyregion/04corzine.html?ex=1280808000&en=96b91b044852a882&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Democratic lawmakers also added about $300 million in spending for special projects on Friday, money that Republicans urged Mr. Corzine to remove through his veto powers. Assemblyman Kevin J. O�Toole, a Bergen County Republican, said that the last-minute additions were an example of 'Democrats behaving badly.' Are these people imbeciles? Don't they know the whole world is watching? They're under a microscope and they open the pork floodgates so quickly? Least they could do is wait until no one is looking? Linda, your Speaker should be hung out to dry for allowing it. Mr. Corzine has indicated that he would support a measure by the Legislature to pay state employees for time missed during the shutdown. Didn't I tell you? *snort* If they didn't, it could affect an 'underfunded' pension calculation or two. ;-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From tomorrow's NYT, some very generous words from Mr. Codey (or else it is political expediency) and the blow-by-blow rundown of events: Six Days That Shook New Jersey By DAVID W. CHEN BY LAURA MANSNERUS Published: July 9, 2006 TRENTON, July 8 — When the clock read 12:01 on July 1, Gov. Jon S. Corzine was at his desk at the State House, Assembly Speaker Joseph J. Roberts Jr. was across the street having a drink at the Trenton Marriott, and New Jersey was only hours from the first government shutdown in its history. For the next six days, and largely out of public view, the state's elected leaders boxed over Mr. Corzine's demand that the sales tax be increased to 7 percent from 6 percent to put the state on sounder financial footing. One Assembly Democrat from South Jersey tried to remove three North Jersey colleagues from the crucial Budget Committee because they refused to align themselves with Mr. Roberts, who himself is from Camden County in the south. Caucus meetings seemed awkward as some lawmakers clustered in cliques based not on the usual factors of friendship or geography, but by their stand on the budget. The impasse led to scenes that were bizarre even by Trenton's relaxed standards. Mr. Corzine, a former co-chairman of Goldman Sachs and a multimillionaire, slept in a cot in his office for three straight days, going to Drumthwacket, the governor's mansion in Princeton, to shower. And for three consecutive mornings, starting on Tuesday, Mr. Corzine demanded that legislators convene at 9 a.m. so that they could listen to him push his budget as fiscally responsible. Senate President Richard J. Codey called it "home room." "We never thought it through," said Assemblywoman Joan M. Quigley, a Democrat from Hudson County, who was a strong supporter of Mr. Corzine's budget. "No one had Plan B. Nobody had an endgame to this. I would call my husband and say, 'It's like we're still in Iraq, with no way to get out.' " Not until Thursday afternoon — when Mr. Corzine walked casually past a throng of surprised lobbyists and reporters and into the office of Mr. Roberts — did it become apparent that the impasse over the governor's $31 billion budget would soon be over. Along the way, the brinkmanship idled tens of thousands of workers, cost the state of millions of dollars in revenue and threw New Jersey's traditional political alliances into disarray. Mr. Roberts had protested the tax increase, saying that he felt that the government could cut enough spending to make up for the $1.1 billion that the increase was projected to generate. While Mr. Corzine said that he was amenable to a compromise suggested by Mr. Codey to dedicate half of the new revenue to property tax relief, Mr. Roberts did not budge. At 9:30 on July 1, after the deadline for the budget came and went, Mr. Corzine signed an executive order stating that he had to authorize the orderly shutdown of government because the state had run out of money. The next day, Mr. Corzine met with Mr. Roberts, Mr. Codey and about 20 other legislators and staff members at Drumthwacket. By then, it had become clear that Mr. Corzine had in Mr. Codey a reliable ally — something that could not have been guaranteed last year, when Mr. Corzine, with tens of millions of dollars of his own money at his disposal, essentially pushed Mr. Codey, then the acting governor, out of the governor's race. "He and I have become very close," Mr. Codey said in an interview in the Senate at 4 a.m. on Saturday, as the budget bill was being debated. On Monday, Mr. Roberts issued a belligerent news release, calling for Mr. Corzine to identify the legislators who supported his proposal. A few hours later, Mr. Corzine demanded that the entire Legislature meet at 9 a.m. the next day — known to the rest of the country as the Fourth of July. His speech on Tuesday lasted 20 minutes, and was greeted by applause two times — when he entered the Assembly chamber, and when he left. The atmosphere was still mutinous, as symbolized by a flier, circulated by the Assembly Democrats, which criticized Mr. Corzine's proposal and asked, "Why are we here?" Assembly Democrats still felt optimistic that they would prevail. Yet when a group of them, led by Mr. Roberts and Assemblywoman Bonnie Watson Coleman, of Mercer County, met with Mr. Corzine, they encountered a man unwilling to make any concessions. "The governor seemed to be in a state of denial," said one person who attended the meeting. In a meeting later of the Assembly Democratic caucus, both Ms. Watson Coleman and Mr. Roberts seemed frustrated by Mr. Corzine's hard-line stance, according to people who heard the speeches. They said that Mr. Corzine refused to make concessions and did not play politics as usual. And in a dramatic moment, Mr. Roberts asked his members for a show of hands of support for Mr. Corzine's sales tax proposal; only 15 out of 49 did. But that strategy rubbed some members the wrong way; someone grumbled that it seemed uncomfortably reminiscent of "Twelve Angry Men." One of the most memorable moments came when Mr. Roberts held a news conference in the late afternoon, at which he defiantly declared that the sales tax proposal was "dead." Mr. Codey wondered at first whether Mr. Corzine would have the stomach to fight on, given the public's distaste for additional taxes and the resoluteness of the Assembly opposition. "He's become a stronger leader, each day, and he's determined to do what he perceives is the right thing to do," Mr. Codey said. "It was a metamorphosis, right before my eyes." On Wednesday morning, Mike Donilon, a political consultant who was in charge of Mr. Corzine's campaign commercials in 2000 and 2005, showed up at the State House at 8 a.m., at the behest of the administration. He was in town to discuss a possible television campaign to push Mr. Corzine's budget, and his mere presence raised the stakes even more. At an Assembly Democratic caucus meeting later, the discussion "got the most personal and raucous," said one of the members, who did not want to be identified because of the lingering bruises from the debate. There, Assemblyman Herb Conaway, from Burlington, a strong ally of Mr. Roberts, demanded that three of his colleagues on the budget committee — Ms. Quigley, Assemblyman Joseph Cryan of Union County, and Assemblyman William D. Payne of Essex County — be removed because they did not back Mr. Roberts. "I said, 'Just settle down,' " Mr. Roberts said in an interview. "Let's not talk about this now." Still, Mr. Roberts and his allies, including Assemblyman Louis D. Greenwald of Camden County, the budget committee chairman, pushed ahead with their own budget, which did not contain a sales tax increase. But with the hearing shown live on television in the small hours of the morning, things got out of hand. First, the committee, which has eight Democrats and four Republicans, heard testimony from two passionate labor leaders, Robert McDevitt, president of Unite-Here Local 54, which represents casino workers, and Carla Katz, president of Communications Workers of America Local 1034, which represents state employees. Both criticized the alternative budget. Then, Mr. Cryan, a Democrat who has strongly backed Mr. Corzine, formed a bloc with the Republicans and three other Democrats, thereby signaling that Mr. Greenwald's proposal had no chance. "After what people saw in that committee, it was obvious that the fight was unsustainable from that point on," said State Sen. Thomas H. Kean Jr., a Republican from Union County. Many legislators and others viewed that meeting as the turning point. Afterward, Mr. Greenwald and other legislators opposed to Mr. Corzine's plan went to the Marriott for a drink, and looked dejected, according to two people who were there. While that was going on, Mr. Roberts had in hand a new compromise proposal from Mr. Corzine that would allocate half of the new sales tax revenue to easing the state's property taxes, at least for one year, and perhaps longer. It expanded upon a proposal that Mr. Codey had first made on June 21. On Thursday, after Mr. Corzine's third speech in as many days, in which he disclosed his latest compromise, things began to change quickly. At some point, Mr. Roberts got on the phone for perhaps 45 minutes with George E. Norcross III, the powerful Democratic leader from Camden County. "You could see the pressure on him," said one State House official who attended some of the meetings, about Mr. Roberts. "He was really wearing it." About noon, Mr. Corzine walked though a crowd of lobbyists and reporters to Mr. Roberts's office, in what was interpreted as a sign of deference. At 1:30 p.m. State Senator Bernard F. Kenny Jr., a Hudson County Democrat and a Corzine ally, came out of the governor's office, after a meeting with the three leaders and others. "The Assembly Democratic caucus broke up," Mr. Kenny declared. "The votes weren't there." The legislators went to their own caucuses to discuss the deal. And when Mr. Roberts announced the compromise to his members, "there was a standing ovation," he said, and a sense of relief. At 4:45 p.m. — almost 137 hours after the deadline had passed — Mr. Corzine, Mr. Roberts and Mr. Codey emerged from the governor's office to announce that the end was finally near.

While Mr. Corzine said that he was amenable to a compromise suggested by Mr. Codey to dedicate half of the new revenue to property tax relief, Mr. Roberts did not budge. ....Mr. Roberts issued a belligerent news release ....[Roberts] he defiantly declared Ah, refresh my memory......why is Corzine the pariah in this scenario? That Codey's a class act. I think the legislators are more deserving of being vilified in all this. Get rid of those asses. What a bunch of f'ng babies. First one to go should be that Roberts guy. What a boob. Looks like Corzine just sat back and let them make idiots of themselves. I'd like to see that alternate budget. Fascinating, thanks. Loved reading the play-by-play of the subway strike after it was over, too.

My favorite of all those fools..... Assemblywoman Joan M. Quigley.... It's like we're still in Iraq, with no way to get out.' " You mean we're aren't? ;-)

While that was going on, Mr. Roberts had in hand a new compromise proposal from Mr. Corzine that would allocate half of the new sales tax revenue to easing the state's property taxes, at least for one year, and perhaps longer. It expanded upon a proposal that Mr. Codey had first made on June 21 Yay!!!!Let's hear it for property tax relief;-)Let'er rip! At least they had los cojones not to let Corzine run amok with the new $$$$ for additional pork...or give a loan to a new girlfriend;-P

Ah, we discussed the loan a couple of days ago. Nothing illegal about it. He paid gift tax on it. And he wasn't governor at the time either. The man's a millionaire. I'd say, if you don't like him in NJ, he can come back to Illinois...but dumping the ex-wife (high school sweetheart) won't play well here. It appears Taylorville is near Springfield, the state capital. (Evelyn) At least they had los cojones not to let Corzine run amok with the new $$$$ for additional pork... You reading some other articles? Or you due for a visit to the eye doctor? It was the state legislators who added the pork. Corzine is on record as wanting all the money from the sales tax increase to go toward reducing the deficit. Waddaya cheering about?

...Which again begs the question above.....why is Corzine the pariah in this scenario?

Got me?

Or you due for a visit to the eye doctor? You seem to have missed a few bolded sentences. ;-)

Or you due for a visit to the eye doctor? You seem to have missed a few bolded sentences. ;-) Aw...you girls are always so complimnetary.LOL. But not according to the NY Times articles I read...incl the girlfriend one. Hey, I can forgive dumping the HS sweetheart-wife... I always say: a politician's personal life means nothing to me";-)))))

But there was nothing illegal about the loan, which turned into a gift. All of that was before he was the governor. No improprieties as far as I can see. I don't understand your beef with the guy or why you're coming down on him.

As for dumping the wife, I said it wouldn't play well with the central Illinois folk. We did have a senate candidate recently who had to bow out because of some hanky panky...

(Karen) All of that was before he was the governor. No improprieties as far as I can see. No actual improprieties, but I can understand critics view on this, as mentioned in the article, where it can give the *perception* of an impropriety, despite the reality. I'm actually having to deal a lot with perception vs. reality issues at work now, so I understand that line of thinking.

(Dorine) but I can understand critics view on this Not I. As a private citizen, there shouldn't even be a *perception* of impropriety. Against what standard is he being held? A man giving a gift to a woman with whom he was in a relationship? The amount is beyond flowers, candy or some nominal piece of jewelry that an ordinary person might bestow on a girlfriend, but the man is not an ordinary person. He's a millionaire. Big deal. This is nothing to him, and it was in his private life as a private citizen.

A man giving a gift to a woman with whom he was in a relationship? She's not just any woman, but one who is prominent in a union that either he had to deal with or had support from. Not so much an issue as he wasn't Governor, but when he was running and needed their support, I could see if a critic or opponent would want to latch onto that if they could. He did her a favor once, they could say that her/the union's support could possibly be related to that. Doesn't mean I agree with it or think it's right, as there was nothing wrong with it. It's Rovian thinking.

Ah, still worshiping at the church of St. Corzine, I see;-) I think I'll go over to the other topic and worship at that other church...the other guy is so much more eye candy than this one;-) (Karen)Ah, we discussed the loan a couple of days ago. Nothing illegal about it. He paid gift tax on it. And he wasn't governor at the time either. The man's a millionaire. No, he did it while running for the Senate...I believe the gift tax was paid only after it came to light running for Gov. He said running for senate the scruitiny wasn't as great. What kind of answer is that? Lots of things are/look legal, but are they really ethical when running for office?...Surely he had to know it wasn't going to look good given her position as the head of that union. Girlfriend or /ex girlfriend. Behaving in a manner not befitting and MP;-) Look, I could care less about who he sleeps with whether or not he leaves his wife or who he gives/forgives bribes/gifts/loans. He's just a governor, to me, nothing more;-) Why should my Speaker be hung out to dry? He'll get the blame, of course, but it was St. Corzine who wanted to raise the sales tax and not be bound by how he spent it in the first place. He stood up to him and that's alright by me. St. Corzine is also allowing a vote, proposed by my Speaker friend, to be on the ballot next fall--that in 2007 , as they reduce the defict that all revenue from the sales tax will go to property tax relief. So, long reaching plans for the money makes me v.v happy. Also, as far as my DH is concerned, another tax has been imposed on the sale of real estate...now the buyer has to pick up the tab. For example if one is buying a, say, 5million factory, office bldg, etc. a new tax on real estates transfers means the buyer picks up the tab for 50,000 that goes to the state. Tax, em, JC, any way you can. (Dorine)That Codey's a class act. Ahmen, and he should be Governor. If he was, we wouldn't have needed this topic.

(Linda) Why should my Speaker be hung out to dry? Did you read the play by play article? Seems rather obvious. Maybe they all should go and start from scratch. Ahmen, and he should be Governor. If he was, we wouldn't have needed this topic. But I've enjoyed it actually. It's been a stimulating discussion. But interesting you say that. I was thinking while out running yesterday (my iPod was dead, had to think of something to keep my mind off being tired trying to breathe ;-)) about that bit. I did read a couple of things that alluded to Codey dropping out knowing he couldn't compete financially. And he was quite chummy with and helpful to Corzine during all this mess. Who knows... he may have agreed to drop out and made some sort of deal for the future as far as running for office or some other thing if he was supportive of Corzine in his run and during his term(s) in office. He may have positioned himself in some way for the future. Are there term limits for Governor in NJ? I don't think Corzine's a saint, I'm just not convinced he should be such a pariah, especially compared to those boobs in the state assembly.

All I can say is, it's a huge relief not to have to see the spurned wanna-gamblers being interviewed on TV on the Boardwalk outside the closed casino doors. Typically a woman from South Philly, "This is awwwwwwful, just terrible. I been comin' here for 27 years and I ain't seen nothing so awwwwwful." And a guy from Staten Island, "Da hell wit Joisey. I'm gawn to Connecticut to gamble from now awn." Punctuated numerous times by a hacking smokers' cough. ;-)

(Dorine) Seems rather obvious. To me too. BTW, I don't think any poltician is a saint. But, from what I read, Corzine said the additional tax revenue was going toward deficit reduction. Doesn't sound to me like he was planning on squandering it on anything he wanted. If one is in debt, you pay your creditors. That's how it is supposed to be done. If you don't like *to whom* your state is in debt and therefore disagree with his "spending" (repayment is more appropriate a term), that's another story. (Dorine) Who knows... he may have agreed to drop out and made some sort of deal for the future as far as running for office or some other thing if he was supportive of Corzine in his run and during his term(s) in office. After reading the play-by-play article, that immediately came to mind. There's a deal. Corzine in the spotlight now, with national aspirations (??). Codey would then follow him into the governor's seat.

(me) If you don't like *to whom* your state is in debt Reminds me of the witch's instruction in HOTPig: "Look to the boobs" ;-)

Codey would then follow him into the governor's seat. Exactly my thinking.

(Dorine)Are there term limits for Governor in NJ? Two, 4 year terms. (Dorine)I don't think Corzine's a saint, I'm just not convinced he should be such a pariah, especially compared to those boobs in the state assembly. He's not a pariah. I just can't stand the man. Thank goodness Cody took him off his high horse several weeks ago when he wanted to tax hospital beds among other things that were all shot down. And the legislature has put back several million that had been cut from higher education--thank goodness. What bothers me is that NJ is only one of 5 states in the country that operates with a deficit. We have the casinos and booming tourism revenue--and we're taxed to the hilt. So, more taxes? Yeah, that'll fix us;-

When you're from Chicago, you think in terms of deals. ;-) The stroke guy (or his representatives) has made a deal with the party machine to take himself off the ballot and the party will put his son on for County Board President. People are outraged. What is he, royalty? During our last primary, there was unprecedented crossover voting and turnout (by Republicans, who really didn't have a viable canditate) to vote against the current board president, who has raised our property taxes big time and who was lying in a hospital paralyzed by a stroke, and for the challenger on the Democratic ticket. But naturally, the city vote managed to get the incumbent back in...as a placeholder now for his son. Makes me ill.

What bothers me is that NJ is only one of 5 states in the country that operates with a deficit. I think we join you in that club. We have the casinos and booming tourism revenue--and we're taxed to the hilt. Well then you have the people who over the years instituted such spending programs that apparently go over and above that casino and tourism revenue and other revenue to blame, whoever they may be. To be fair, I'd bet as in many other states, market costs have gone up in such programs as Medicaid, which can be a huge drain. It really is here. But sometimes, the revenue just can't keep up with market forces or other forces in various programs, including covering health insurance costs for government workers, etc. Perhaps a slightly less comprehensive insurance plan would help, but the employees would start screaming over that. And then it makes them less competitive to find employees. (And it doesn't help when in the middle of a state government shut down that the state legislature loads the budget up with pork spending that Linda decries, with I imagine the approval of the Speaker).

Actually I shouldn't say market costs make Medicaid more expensive though it doesn't help, it's the fact that more people are ending up in the program that hurts the most probably.

(Dorine) Actually I shouldn't say market costs make Medicaid more expensive though it doesn't help, it's the fact that more people are ending up in the program that hurts the most probably. And that would be because of one of two reasons: 1. Employers no longer supplying health insurance 2. People being out of work

(Dorine)with I imagine the approval of the Speaker). I really don't too much about that as I don't have loads of info on the details. Interestingly enough the shut down was off the front page this morning-not even on 2 or 3, here. But I'll keep you posted on the spending, and exactly who has proposed/approved of what. (Karen)1. Employers no longer supplying health insurance . They can't afford to. My DH does, and it's killing him.

(Karen)2. People being out of work With unemployment at 4.6%???? New Honda plant going up in Indiana... " Toyota plant " " in San Antonio... I'm tired of seeing "Mechanics Wanted" signs here and in Texas oil belt. Don't have a skill? Get thee to a Vo Tech school.

With unemployment at 4.6%???? Do you know how they actually get those figures? It's somewhat of a deception and a toggling with the numbers, both of those employed and unemployed. Many of the jobs being created today are lower paying that may or may not provide health insurance. Even if they do provide it, many times, if it's a smaller place like Linda's husband's place, sometimes they pass so much more of the cost onto the worker rather than eat it themselves. Yeah, the people have a job, but many of them have very little left over, especially with rising transportation, food, and sometimes insurance costs.

(Dorine) with I imagine the approval of the Speaker). (Linda) I really don't too much about that as I don't have loads of info on the details. Something doesn't get tacked on a bill without the Speaker's approval/consent. (Karen)1. Employers no longer supplying health insurance . (Linda) They can't afford to. My DH does, and it's killing him. I was only stating the reality of the situation and the reason why Medicaid is being swamped. Of course, it is cost. It goes without saying. (Evelyn) With unemployment at 4.6%???? (Dorine) Do you know how they actually get those figures? It's somewhat of a deception and a toggling with the numbers, both of those employed and unemployed. You're quite right. Moreover, people "fall off" the numbers after a certain point. (Dorine) Many of the jobs being created today are lower paying that may or may not provide health insurance. Absolutely. The only Help Wanted signs I see are at Target. ;-)

FYI, skills training is not the issue. It is pay and benefits. Companies can pay less in foreign countries. Absolutely nothing is manufactured in this country anymore and the service sector has set up shop elsewhere too.

(Linda) What bothers me is that NJ is only one of 5 states in the country that operates with a deficit. You don't have to feel so alone. Actually, over 50% of the states (30) had a projected deficit for FY 2005. http://www.cbpp.org/10-22-03sfp2.pdf (scroll down for the individual state list) And the federal deficit having ballooned in just 5 short years must be blowing Linda's mind. I know it is mine. It was EASILY avoidable. At least to this degree. And regarding Medicaid, one of the more significant reasons for the increase in Medicaid spending is increased entrance of the elderly into the program. And it will only get worse. The percentage of the elderly iz growing and with it is the increased need for long term care in a nursing facility, with which I am extremely familiar. Unless those people have their own money (which some do, but choose to move the funds and property into trusts with children and grandchildren - though getting a bit more difficult to do), they have to apply for Medicaid to cover their nursing home stays. Of course this taxes the state financial resources, as Karen and I mentioned above. Unfortunately I'd have to pay to access this whole article, but it gives you an idea of the states' issues with this program. Health Affairs, 23, no. 2 (2004): 143-154 doi: 10.1377/hlthaff.23.2.143 � 2004 by Project HOPE Popular Medicaid Programs Do Battle With State Budget Pressures: Perspectives From Twelve States John F. Hoadley, Peter Cunningham and Megan McHugh Many are concerned that growth of state Medicaid and State Children�s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) spending, along with limited political clout among beneficiaries, make these programs extremely vulnerable in periods of serious state budget constraints. But observations based on Community Tracking Study site visits show that states have thus far largely avoided major cuts that would seriously harm beneficiaries� access, primarily because programs have more support among coalitions of public officials, health care providers, and local advocates than commonly assumed. However, the limits to this surprising level of support are exemplified by decisions in many states to shelve some planned future expansions indefinitely. http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/abstract/23/2/143?etoc ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And as this article addresses, the feds could help out a bit more, too. I know that's part of NY's problems with the Medicaid program. They go through it so fast, both federal and state funds and the feds keep wanting to cut more, then the state does because they don't want to use all their money on that. Ugly cycle. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Snippets.... According to the most recent survey from the National Governors Association and the National Association of State Budget Officers (2002), the average increase in state government spending from general funds is projected to be 1.3% both in 2002 and in 2003. In contrast, Medicaid�the costliest item for states�grew 13.2% during fiscal year 2002. With overall spending rising only slightly, Medicaid inevitably crowded out other state priorities. Beside cutting services, 23 states raised taxes. Taken altogether, their tax hikes totaled more than $8 billion. State aid to local governments was also reduced, adding to the likelihood of service cuts and tax increases at the local level. [...] Note that neither variable reflects the budget problems a state may be experiencing. This is important because aid should not be conditioned on imprudent fiscal behavior. An unavoidable problem in this context is that some fiscal difficulty is the result not of bad fiscal practice but rather of unforeseeable events. [Ed note- I don't know if that last bit applies to NJ, but I thought it interesting. http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/issuebriefs_ib187 I had more to post about unemployment rate formulas, but I'm too sleepy now.

And as you can see here, the state governments have little choice but to cut programs as they are getting their federal funds nixed as well. http://www.cbpp.org/2-7-05sfp.htm

One of the big flaws in the unemployment figures is that it doesn't count people whose benefits have run out.

Exactly!, which was the point I was going to bring up, but as you can see, I decided to go to sleep. ;-) I have a couple of things bookmarked on that...for another time. Thought this was an interesting, "easy" read on State Fiscal Crises. http://www.cbpp.org/12-8-04sfp.pdf NJ and NY are basically the same, and the most of any except California and Texas.

Dorine) Many of the jobs being created today are lower paying that may or may not provide health insurance. And in many instances are part-time, forcing people to get more than one job...generally none with insurance for working less hours.

Thank you, I didn't know that;-)

Thanks, Dorine, for the links. As for NJ restoring funding to higher ed, I'd have to see how tuition at its schools compared to other states before rendering any opinion. In my state, the U of I (Champaign-Urbana) gets more applicants than it can handle and it is impossible to get in. The cost of tuition isn't even a factor. I'm sure out-of-state students pay through the nose.

(Dorine) Actually, over 50% of the states (30) had a projected deficit for FY 2005. If you look at the projected 2006 link/pdf file you posted later, it may appear to be half the states. But read the Notes about the methodology at bottom. Omissions from the table are mainly due to lack of data or incomplete data. It says that only a few states are projected to have a surplus in 2006; those mentioned are Delaware, Hawaii, Virginia and Wyoming. I'm sure it was an oversight that Oklahoma wasn't included. ;-) The deficit figures for Texas and as a (double-digit) percentage of its general fund astonish me, given what I've been reading here about how honky dory it is down there. ;-)

(karen)It says that only a few states are projected to have a surplus in 2006; those mentioned are Delaware, Hawaii, Virginia and Wyoming. I'm sure it was an oversight that Oklahoma wasn't included. ;-) "I don't know what papers your reading"....;-))) Oklahoma Governor Signs Tax Cut Bill Oklahoma Governor Brad Henry signs a bill into law that will cut taxes a record $627 million a year when fully implemented. Henry inked the mammoth tax plan today without a bill-signing ceremony that usually occurs with such major legislation. The tax bill is more than four times larger than a then-record $150 million tax-cut plan he signed a year ago and was one of 85 measures that were passed during a three-day special session last week. The others were funding bills, including a record $6.6 billion general appropriations bill as part of a $7.1 billion spending plan. Lawmakers had a huge surplus to work with this year mainly because of a growing economy fed by high energy prices. Under the tax relief package, the top income tax rate will drop from 6.25% to 5.5% over the next three years and to 5.25% in the fourth year if the economy continues to grow. The measure also eliminates the estate tax over the next three years and raises the standard deduction to the federal level over four years, eliminating income taxes for 45,000 families who don't itemize deductions In addition a bunch of $$$went for higher ed..and $3,000. /yr raise for teachers .....whether they're good or bad. I don't know about Texas budget...I only know they have jobs.

*clap clap* Yeah for the Okies! You are indeed lucky. a growing economy fed by high energy prices. Oil industry? They way we're all getting gouged, it wouldn't be surprising. At least someone's getting some good out of it. Linda, you should move to OK. ;-)

Lawmakers had a huge surplus to work with this year mainly because of a growing economy fed by high energy prices. Yippeee!!! Doing wild and crazy happy dance that someone is benefitting from the outrageous gas prices. You'll recall I never said that corporate PROFITS were down. But that Reagan-era dictum, the "trickle-down theory" ain't happening. Corporations have been posting record profits every since... well, I'll leave that part unsaid. And they're doing it by cutting costs (exporting jobs) and getting tax breaks.

At $75 a barrel and $3.00+ per gallon, yeah, I guess you got a surplus. Glad the rest of us get to help out.;-) Re: exporting jobs. At my office, we call it "Bangaloring" as in "He got Bangalored" meaning his job moved to that Indian city. Sad.

Oil industry? They way we're all getting gouged, it wouldn't be surprising. At least someone's getting some good out of it. Hey, crude costs the same all over. Set by OPEC. Not EXON or Chevron or even Oklahoma;-) Our profit comes from more 'drilling' due to demand; not *your* $$$$$; the oil has always been here and there's more. But it costs a lot to drill...a lot more than exporting it from the Middle East. If you are paying more than me ($2.75/gal). It 's due to your state taxes or extra emission standards mandated by your state. Only a few refineries, for instance, are equipped to produce fuel for California. And then there's refineries...we haven't built one in over 10 yrs. I have one close by...not a pretty sight. Do you want one in your back yard????? It's a complicated issue.

If you are paying more than me ($2.75/gal). It 's due to your state taxes or extra emission standards mandated by your state. I agree with you there. That's why I always drive to PA to see my family with an almost empty tank of gas....so when I get over the bridge to Jersey, I can fill up the tank for quite a bit less (15-20 cents per gallon). PA is usually close to or at NY price.

(Evelyn)Our profit comes from more 'drilling' due to demand I understand. What I meant was that at $75/barrel, there's no shortage of entities that want to drill. I saw a guy in Texas on the news the other day that showed how they were re-starting drilling in wells that had been abandoned for years. They had been idle because(and I don't know the technicals) it's more difficult to get the oil out of them, but at today's prices (which the consumer is paying, regardless of who or what caused the jump)it's well worth their while. I'm happy with my hybrid. Getting mpg in the high 20s.

(Mari) Getting mpg in the high 20s I hope that's not on the highway. ;-)

LOL, no that's almost exclusively city driving. You can do better mileage-wise, but this is a good-sized vehicle. I don't do small cars.;-) And, depending on what you buy, you get a federal tax credit for at least half of the add'l cost of the hybrid. It wasn't primarily a cost-savings thing for me, though. It just felt like the right thing to do. I'm one of those people who believes global warming is here *now,* and that oui all have a lot to do with it.

Did you ever catch An Inconvenient Truth?

(Evelyn) If you are paying more than me ($2.75/gal). It 's due to your state taxes or extra emission standards mandated by your state. Only a few refineries, for instance, are equipped to produce fuel for California. *cough cough* The tax portion is a relative constant. Take a look at the table here: From the Gas Primer section, from 2003 to 2004, the state and local tax portion of a gallon's cost went down, while both "refining and profits" and basic crude oil went up. I love pictures! ;-) BTW, the primer is pretty decent. Too bad it hasn't been updated for 2006 data, but it does attribute the cost increases primarily to crude oil prices and "supply and demand." California, as you'll note, has its own unique circumstances. BTW, I try to buy my gas in the burbs, especially in other counties. That way I save maybe 25 cents a gallon, depending on where I am. (Mari) They had been idle because(and I don't know the technicals) it's more difficult to get the oil out of them Costs too much to get out of the ground. Aha! I've figured it out. Raise prices to cut our dependence on foreign oil. Make it cost-effective to drill domestically again. ;-) http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/primer_on_gasoline_prices/html/petbro.html http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_home_page.html

Pretty pictures! ;-) I'd like to know what the average profit margin is per oil company. I mean, what kind of profit margin do they have with $10 BILLION in profits in *one quarter*. ONE! In *one* company! However, retail prices are likely to remain elevated as long as some refineries remain shut down and the U.S. gasoline market continues to stretch supplies to their limit. *snort* Why would they want to rush to get those refineries back on line and cut into their newfound increase in profits. Thanks, Karen. That primer was interesting and easy to understand. I'm curious how the world supply and prices would be without the war in Iraq. Really, the main answer is to stop relying on it so much.

(Evelyn) Hey, crude costs the same all over. Set by OPEC. Well only on the crude that comes from the 11 OPEC nations. Not from the crude we drill ourselves. I hope anyway. It better be cheaper domestically. Though, for all I know, our prices are set the same as what we import.

(Evelyn) Hey, crude costs the same all over. Set by OPEC. (Dorine) Well only on the crude that comes from the 11 OPEC nations. Is there anyone here who really believes that OPEC operates independently and that US companies' interests are not part of the whole thing?

Not really, especially where it concerns the Saudis. But actually, my point was only that the US is not an actual member of OPEC for edification.

We only get , I think 5% ,of our oil domestically. (You all who have more time can look up the stats;-) Rest comes from Canada, Venezuela (Citgo), and Mexico. We will never be completely independent. We consume what 25% of world oil??? And climbing. Scandalous. Look at the monstrous cars we drive. I'm with you Mari. My next car will be a hybrid. (Tiny one..saw a cute Prius today)

Wow, talk about dependence. The world has the US by the balls....various countries with our energy supply and Asia financially. :-( And China is actually projected to be the biggest (or one of the biggest) drain on the world's energy supply in the coming years. It's already accelerating at a scary rate now from what I've seen. Scandalous. Look at the monstrous cars we drive. Funny you say that. When I was walking down the street in my neighborhood the other day, I was noticing that a large percentage of vehicles were SUV's and thought how ridiculous that was at this point in time for people to buy one and how much trouble we're in somewhat because of them. At least they weren't Hummers. ;-) I feel kinda good at the moment for not contributing to over usage of gas as I don't drive my car to work anymore, so I use the car maybe at most half a dozen times a month, mostly not that far. I have a small car with decent gas mileage as I always have anyway. Though I'm not feeling so good paying those car payments to let it sit there. ;-)

Talking about automobiles.... Chinese Company Intends to Build MG�s in Oklahoma http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/12/business/12cnd-auto.html?_r=1&oref=slogin Nice coup for us. We lost a GM plant recently Dell just built a huge plant in OKC last yr. Okla is business-friendly state. Texas is the best of all; no state income tax!

Oooh, hope they build 'em better than they used to. They used to nickel and dime (and occasionally a dollar) you to death. I had a friend who had one years ago. Dell just built a huge plant in OKC last yr. Perhaps not a good move. Their stock dropped today when an analyst downgraded them. I think they warned on earnings recently. I didn't see if their quarterly report is out. Brought much of the market down today if I skimmed correctly.