Isn't it lovely that Obama and his people have agreed to let her name be placed in nomination? When did he become the de facto head of the DNC? Why is there a need then to even have the convention?

I'd be curious on your thoughts especially on this, Moon. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/opinion/17rich.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin And I heard on the radio today that Hillary will pledge her delegates to Obama. After the roll call I presume? Doesn't that kind of just slap her diligent supporters in the face? I understand the point for unity and all, but I think I might be offended a bit at that if I was one of them.

Barack's mentor is retiring: http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/1113884,emailweb081808.article?plckCurrentPage=0&sid=sitelife.suntimes.com The comments are hysterical. Illinois politics at their best in the, for example, the Middle Ages, when one expected the oldest son to inherit the family rank. At this point, I'd want to slap our Gov for even suggesting that this guy's son take over as Senate president.

Didn't the same thing kind of happen in Alaska politics? Didn't a daughter take the place of her father when he retired, was indicted, something? I'd have to look it up. Well, no need for these now. Perhaps one could say, "Mission Accomplished!" They helped anyway. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080819/ap_on_re_us/election_junk;_ylt=Asa4mykRtZlW4eA3dp.6Nsms0NUE

As I have stated before, Obama did not earn those delegates, he cheated and was able to convince the DNC to select him. He was selected not elected. CAUCUS FRAUD - a similar story over and over in different precincts and states: Jeff in Iowa: I live in Davenport, Iowa - Precinct 23. I was the Precinct Captain for Hillary Clinton and began my work for her in Sept. 2007. At that time, I met with the many folks in this precinct, every registered Democratic voter. During that time, I was most fortunate to gain supporters and lose a few . . .mainly to Sen. Edwards. I developed a Team Hillary in this precinct that went door to door from 12/3/07 to caucus night. On caucus night, I was informed that I could not bring authorized Hillary stickers, food, etc into the site. I regrettably complied. From 6-6:30 pm, it appeared as I had expected. Young, old, males, females, hispanics, whites, gay and lesbian friends arriving. Very heavily for Ms. Clinton, a fair amount for Edwards and some stragglers for Obama. During my walks thru the neighborhoods (a very densely populated precinct), I discovered that indeed this was the make-up of my precinct. My mind began to feel victory for my lady. My hard work had paid off! I even overcame the fact that every volunteer at the entrance tables was wearing an Obama sticker. They had NO precinct captain and my friend, the Edwards captain and I were discussing the fact that Obama out of state staff had arrived to pass out stickers and signs to folks. Next, they began to sit at the entrance tables. Hmm. We were barred from doing that! "Oh well", we thought. THEN: at 6:50 pm, over 75 people of African American descent came walking in, past the tables and sat in the Obama section. I knew one of them from my canvassing. I knew another one who did not live in this precinct! And aside from the 4 or 5 families that live on Hillandale Road, there are no other black people in this unusually white precinct. (And one of those black couples were in my Hillary section). The results were Obama 3, Clinton, 2, Edwards 1! It was impossible for me to argue since the precinct chair was an Obama supporter from another precinct. A very large bus was seen in the parking lot afterwards carrying these folks back. That momentum gave Obama future victories and I am sure his mastery of the caucus cheat along with his October 2007 meetings with Karl Rove, taught him how to steal this nomination! I think America is worth more than that which is why this lifelong Democrat and exuberant Hillary Clinton supporter will mark "MCCAIN" in november! To read more visit this site: CaucusAnalysis Data, Analysis, Articles, Testimonials & Videos INTRODUCTION In two weeks the Democratic Party will formally nominate Barack Obama as its candidate for President of the United States. It's the triumph of fraud. I've spent the past two months immersed in data from the 2008 Democratic caucuses. After studying the procedures and results from all fourteen caucus states, interviewing dozens of witnesses, and reviewing hundreds of personal stories, my conclusion is that the Obama campaign willfully and intentionally defrauded the American public by systematically undermining the caucus process. This site represents the fruits of my research. It's a work in progress, obviously, and also a central repository for a vast array of data: articles and blog posts from around the web, personal emails to me, interviews with witnesses, affidavits and testimonials, campaign communications, and videos of the caucuses themselves. I have elected to make this information public. I hope that it sheds light on the caucus process and inspires reform or total elimination of the caucuses. I also hope it gives pause to those Democrats who believe that Barack Obama is the rightful nominee and that Hillary supporters should just "get over it." I have been a Democrat my entire life, but I will not support the Democratic Party at the cost of democracy. Lynette Long August 2008 http://www.lynettelong.com/CAUCUSFRAUD/

I'm sure by now you've already heard that Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones passed away. This woman was an amazing inspiration and loyal friend to Hillary Clinton. I'd met her at Hillary's HQ and really enjoyed our conversations. Her loss is enormous.

(Dorine) Didn't the same thing kind of happen in Alaska politics? Didn't a daughter take the place of her father when he retired, was indicted, something? But it is a way of life here and isn't merely for a basic seat. We're talking handing down the presidency of an entity. Yesterday's headline in the Sun-Times caught my eye in huge letters: NEPOTITIS and was an article written by Carol Marin, who I think has been posted here before. This is the article: http://www.suntimes.com/news/marin/1116348,CST-EDT-carol20.article It explains what happened with the president of Cook County board, who had a stroke before the primaries, yet won. Then handed his seat over to his son, as well as the presidency. People are furious about that one. Now, we have the president of the Ill Senate about to do the same. Read how qualified the son is. Actually, Emil wasn't qualified either. Someone mentioned to me the other day how pitiful it is that, despite having a single party in control of the state, absolutely nothing gets done. Now we, in Cook County, have the highest sales tax in the country and all the politicians are giving themselves huge raises.

Moon would like this quote from the article: At the very same moment Barack Obama, an alumnus of the Illinois State Senate and a mentee of President Jones, is campaigning across America in behalf of change we can believe in and a new kind of politics. Here on the homefront we have his mentor playing the same old, cynical game that treats public office like a family entitlement. And the public payroll like a bequest.

What is your sales tax, Karen? Do you have county and state sales tax? And does Chicago have a city sales tax?

Oh and are there clothing exemptions like Vermont and PA and here (under ~$100) or just the usual food exemptions? I have no clue what other people pay for stuff like that.

Can I just say, I'm sick to death of the incessant mystery over Obama's VP pick. Just pick already! That goes for both of them.

10.25% Usual exemptions? Are you kidding? Food and drugs are taxed at a lower rate: 2% And fast food/beverage and restaurants in general are subject to an additional 1% on top of the 10.25%. That's been in effect for quite a long time. Soft drinks (in any form)--thank goodness I don't drink them--are taxed at 13.25%. Evidently ours is considered one of the most complex in the country as well. It starts at 6.25% for the state (and includes a state, county and city component) and then more gets heaped on it.

10.25%?!! Holy cow! I think our state is 4.25% or something, then city is 4.25% or close. Works out to 8.50% or so. Things are a hair cheaper on Long Island as they don't have the other 4% on top of the state. But there is the no tax on clothing under $100, or $110, now. We used to have tax holidays for clothes in February and I think a week in the summer, but they made it permanent.

All of this and the city just announced that it is facing a $400 million budget deficit and has pledged not to raise property taxes this year. There is such waste and bloat in city/county government here. If only it weren't so...

And, let's not forget, overall corruption. :-(

We've got the MTA with yet another budget gap after raising fares in March and they want to do it again next year after promising no more increases for a while. And they want to raise it every 2 years after for a time. Plus they'd been doling out multiple EZ Passes to people (past and present) on the board and they aren't allowed compensation of any sort. Thank God for the Daily News exposing that. The MTA was forced by public opinion to take them back and boy were those board members unhappy about that. Poor babies. We had some sort of property tax refund the last year or 2, but they may recind it. My coworker is complaining they just raised the taxes on the new house she just moved into 6 months ago. The city's tax income has been drastically reduced due to the financial sector's crisis here. And our govenor just called a special legislative session to cut $1 billion out of our state budget, of which NYC seems to not get enough of, especially for the MTA. NY and Chicago seem quite similar, but I think your corruption is so much worse.

Our transit fares were increased this year again, as well. The state can't fund its pension obligations and, yet, as the article pointed out has given its own people even higher pensions and then double-dip (having both a state and a county office, plus who knows how much in bribe money). The TV news people do expose after expose and nothing changes. (Dorine) but I think your corruption is so much worse. Yeah! Some distinction. How many of your governors have or are serving prison terms? ;-) I had a lady who worked for me whose husband was a judge, serving time in Duluth.

The TV news people do expose after expose and nothing changes. That is depressing. I guess it's not much different here. Speaking of depressing, when the new MTA head came, he said they were going to increase services on some bus and subway lines since they had a surplus, then they raise fares and all of a sudden there's a deficit and they can't implement most of the changes and say they need to raise fares again. Then the Daily News (again!) found out he got a big incremental raise that was built into his contract with one or 2 more due. People didn't take to him getting a raise when they're crying poverty.

On top of everything, we have some reverend telling parents/kids to boycott the first day of school (Chicago Public School System) and to register at a suburban one. They've targeted one for the Wilmette/Winnetka, Glencoe area, which would have an excellent academic record and would be a prime example of the inequity of school systems funded by local property taxes. That isn't entirely accurate, as my property taxes go to fund schools in southern Illinois too. Anyway, the Urban League is now suing the state of Illinois. I'd love for our property tax-based education system to be replaced by one on income taxes (now 3% in Illinois) but have a nagging feeling that my property taxes won't go down by much despite that change. It'll be another smoke and mirrors game like money from the state lottery that was supposed to add to the education coffers, but instead allowed the state to divert its funds to waste and cronies, while using the lottery money as its sole source.

FYI, in the "My Daughter Michelle Obama" video, the photo of the "apartment" they lived in sure looked like a house to me. Granted, I'm not from the south side, but that same style exists on the north side and most people call them houses. ;-) If a building like that were subdivided into apartments, it would most likely be against the law.

Really? Houses being subdivided are against the law there? Basement apts are illegal here, but that's it. I had it on but didn't watch the video. Or watch her or her brother speak, but I did listen....mostly. Was multitasking. She's an impressive speaker. Those kids were cute. Watched Teddy's though. And the speech. Looks like his hair didn't grow back for the most part where they most likely shaved it for surgery. It was full on one side and mostly long thin strands on the left. I was thinking as I watched him walk on and off the stage, being mildly held by the arm at times, that I'd bet it took almost literally every ounce of his strength to get up there and speak, because he obviously wasn't overly steady. And even just get there. Then, in reading some blog threads about it, several mentioned that apparently no one was sure until almost the last minute if he was going out there. The Boston Globe had a breaking news alert not long before that he was actually going to go on himself. Apparently his MD's were concerned about him being around so many people with his immune system depressed. I'm sure he was buoyed by the energy of the crowd and his desire to give what I'll imagine will be his last hurrah. I'd honestly be shocked if he made it to the inauguration. Maybe even Xmas. Unfortunately. He has a strong will, though it's a wicked type of tumor he has. And I don't remember at all that he can't raise his arms really more than shoulder level. Was he always like that? I never noticed I guess. McCain's the same way IIRC. And what is all that stupid mess with the Clinton delegates....starting a roll call, then stopping it partway through and giving them to Obama?....blah, blah, blah. What a mess. Are they stopping it because they're afraid Obama won't end up with enough delegates after all? Or really, just some kind of appeasement to Clinton's supporters, though I'd be annoyed if it was stopped before my vote was counted if I was there as her supporter. I'm sick of it. Just get on with it one way or the other.

Houses being subdivided are against the law there? More like against code. Houses are zoned for usage. That looked to me like a typical single-family home. For it to be subdivided would require a zoning change, which I would imagine is doubtful. Are they stopping it because they're afraid Obama won't end up with enough delegates after all? No, I would imagine it is because the numbers won't show UNITY! ;-) The Dems want him to be perceived as the overwhelming favorite, which the actual committed delegate numbers wouldn't show. He squeaked out a victory over her, which I still maintain was suspect (engineered by the Republicans and their dirty tricks). I was watching PBS' coverage earlier, when the Kennedy tribute was live, and there were a couple of talking heads (names?) discussing Obama's claim about having Republican support, referring to them as Obamacans, which one would surmise from the crossover vote. Right? Both the talking heads said that he had minimal appeal for Republicans, whereas it was more likely that Democrats would vote Republican.

(engineered by the Republicans and their dirty tricks). And how funny, Moon blames the Democrats. Jim Lehrer...on PBS? And Republicans were voting with her in the primaries so they could vote against her in the general election. What a convoluted mess. Why oh why couldn't Al Gore run? :-( If Obama wins, bet Gore will be Energy Sect'y. Actually, he'll still probably get more accomplished in the private sector even then.

(Dorine) Jim Lehrer...on PBS? He wasn't one of the talking head experts on public opinion polling. Some woman was moderating at the time. I suppose I might find some hints if I go to their website and investigate. And Republicans were voting with her in the primaries so they could vote against her in the general election. Never heard that one. The Republican strategy would've been to have Rs cross-over and vote for O, so that he would be the Dem candidate, the data showing that O couldn't beat McCain. It wouldn't make sense to promote Clinton support to wreak havoc. If Rs crossed over, it would've been the disenfranchised older female sector that has been Hill's base and doesn't want to wait until Michelle Obama's daughters are of electable age to see a woman in the WH. :-( And it made me seethe to hear everyone (esp Teddy & clan) proclaiming how Obama was going to make health care available to everyone. I seem to recall that was Hill's issue. Talk about banking on people's short memories. Sickening! Anyway, this came up about our incredibly (but acceptable) sexist society: http://www.livescience.com/culture/080825-women-politics.html Click on some of the other links under the article too.

(Karen)I seem to recall that was Hill's issue. Talk about banking on people's short memories. Sickening! It was her (and Bill's) issue going all the way back to the early days of his first term. Remember, he put her in charge of figuring out a way to do universal health coverage? She and he were crucified for it. I wonder if this is an idea whose time has come, even though every other industrialized nation in the world except us already has it. Have you seen the Republican ads that are playing on women's disappointment over Hillary not getting the nom, trying to drive a wedge and get women to vote Republican? Are they kidding? The R party has never spoken to me about anything I care about as a woman and now they want to talk to me? This is the party whose platforms and policies have fought tooth and nail over abortion rights, reproductive rights, stem cell research, family medical leave, etc.--and they want me to come over to their side? What are they giving me? What am I missing?

And Republicans were voting with her in the primaries so they could vote against her in the general election. I think Moon and I were discussing that a while ago. If it isn't upthread then we were discussing it in email. At the time of the Ohio primary, that's what many people were commenting on one of the websites for the city newspapers were saying they were going to do. I think it was the Cleveland Plain Dealer. I didn't see anyone anywhere say they were crossing over to vote for Obama for that reason. Heh, I saw the headline to that article yesterday, but hadn't read it yet.

The R party has never spoken to me about anything I care about as a woman and now they want to talk to me? This is the party whose platforms and policies have fought tooth and nail over abortion rights, reproductive rights, stem cell research, family medical leave, etc.--and they want me to come over to their side? Hello!! Thank you!

Hello right back, Do, lol. Actually, they *have* given me something: crippling debt that my grandchildren's children will labor to re-pay.:-( So how are you all feeling about Joe Biden? Living in what's known as the Delaware Valley, I've been seeing him up close for years, and I think he's terrific.

Actually, they *have* given me something: crippling debt that my grandchildren's children will labor to re-pay.:-( *snort* I'm ambivalent about Biden. He talks a mean game, but doesn't always follow through and at times turns around and votes against my best interests.

(Karen), The Republican strategy would've been to have Rs cross-over and vote for O, so that he would be the Dem candidate, the data showing that O couldn't beat McCain. That is what I said and experienced first hand in VA. Hillary has always been way ahead of McCain in the polls. The Republicans have a chance to beat Obama. The health care issue has always been Hillary thing. Obama is an upstart taking everyone ideas under the Change poster. I'm not a sucker, and I'm not voting for him. It will be my first time voting Republican, and you can blame the undemocratic ways of Howard Dean and Pelosi. What has changed since the House and Senate went to the Democrats? Even Pelosi dropped her Bush impeachment promise. Have they spoken to you, Mari or you Dorine? I also feel it was very wrong of Obama to tell Pres. Clinton what he should speak about, that's unprecedented.

What has changed since the House and Senate went to the Democrats? Even Pelosi dropped her Bush impeachment promise. Have they spoken to you, Mari or you Dorine? No, I'll grant you that and I've complained a great deal about it. But they also didn't have a solid majority, it's very slim. I'm still not happy with them. But the party itself still stands for ideals and ideas I ascribe to. Not all of them necessary, but as a whole. I didn't know Clinton was being told what to say....or not say. Wonder if they'll play him off the stage like they do at the Oscars, since he tends to be long winded. I have to go out tonight and must remember to set the recorder for Hillary tonight. I hope there's a more pinpointed schedule out now of at least what general time she'll speak.

(Dorine)But the party itself still stands for ideals and ideas I ascribe to. Not all of them necessary, but as a whole. That's pretty much how I feel. I can't bite off my nose to spite my face.

(Mari) It was her (and Bill's) issue going all the way back to the early days of his first term. Remember, he put her in charge of figuring out a way to do universal health coverage? Yes, I remember, which is why I said it was *her* issue. From what I've heard though she worked well with Teddy at that time (despite the crucifixtion). Wonder when the rift started? (Dorine) I didn't know Clinton was being told what to say....or not say. That was in the news a couple of days ago. He wanted to talk about the economy and how Bush has destroyed what he had built, but the DNC has said he could only talk about UNITY and OBAMA. I guess they don't want people to remember how good the American economy was during a Clinton administration.

August 26, 2008 Clinton's Thankless Job By Marie Cocco WASHINGTON -- If there is a political job more fraught with peril than running to become the next commander in chief, surely it is being cast as cheerleader in chief. Hillary Clinton will be damned if she looks too methodically perfect, too much the purveyor of practiced routine and not enough the cheery personification of enthusiasm. She'll also be damned if she's too exuberant, too obviously raising her voice in unbridled exhortation for the team. She will either be deemed too cool or all-too-cagily warm. Clinton can't win Tuesday evening. But then, she knows that. She is set to address the Democratic National Convention in Denver to give the valedictory address of her 2008 campaign -- a race in which she went further than any woman in American history toward the elusive goal of electing a woman to the White House. But this is a speech that is also meant to soothe her bruised supporters and get them to support Barack Obama, a man who -- for not a few of them -- has brazenly overtaken the more-qualified woman to grab the prize and in so doing has writ large the story of their own lives. Clinton is a woman who knows how to lose -- to lose any shred of privacy, to lose face, to lose any expectation of being treated with a modicum of respect by the talking heads in the media and now, to lose a bid for the Democratic presidential nomination that she expected to win. As if to heap insult upon injury, the Obama campaign let it be known that it did not for a minute seriously consider Clinton as a running mate, notwithstanding the 18 million votes she earned during the primaries and her demonstrated ability to win over white, working-class voters who remain cool to Obama and are necessary for victory in the fall. Those 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling that the Obama forces conceded could gain a reference in the party's platform are, apparently, just words. In her 2003 memoir "Living History," this is how Clinton described her reaction to her earliest political loss, during her senior year in high school: "I ran for student government president against several boys and lost, which did not surprise me but still hurt, especially because one of my opponents told me I was 'really stupid if I thought a girl could be elected president.' As soon as the election was over, the winner asked me to head the Organizations Committee which, as far as I could tell was expected to do most of the work. I agreed." The work of the next phase of Clinton's career has been going on doggedly, and often with little notice, since she suspended her campaign on June 7. She's been a campaign emissary for Obama to the Sheet Metal Workers union, to Hispanics and others in New Mexico and Nevada; to older women in South Florida who still haven't quite accepted the loss of what may be for some of them their last chance to see a woman elected president. The June speech Clinton made in departing from the race was, among Democratic activists, "probably the most seen, talked about, buzzed about speech of the campaign," says Mike Lux, a consultant for Democratic interest groups and an Obama supporter. It went over well, even among Obama loyalists. That tends to be how Clinton does things. The public Clinton doesn't usually show hints of the private pain that burns inside. The same cannot be said of some of her supporters, who can be expected to stage at least a few demonstrations of their fury at the outcome of the race, and at what they perceive as repeated displays of disrespect Obama has shown their hero. It is not lost on them that in selecting Joe Biden to be the vice presidential nominee, Obama has chosen a Washington insider who voted in favor of the Iraq War -- two of the sustained attacks on Clinton that Obama used to devastating effect during the primaries. The television cameras will linger on angry and tearful Clinton delegates in the convention crowd. The commentators will no doubt take this as a demonstration of disunity -- and not a few will, of course, blame Clinton. But it is usually the job of the party nominee to build unity once a vanquished rival has conceded and made the right gestures. Unless the loser happens to be a woman. Then it's just like high school, and she must do the work. mariecocco@washpost.com Copyright 2008, Washington Post Writers Group

Gigi Gaston's new film on voter fraud in the 2008 election is an important part of the Democratic Party's debates this week. Was the election won through dirty tricks and fraud? It's a must see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGZFgMNM-UU

Interesting blogs: http://politicallydrunk.blogspot.com/2008/08/emil-jones-to-clinton-supporter.html http://savagepolitics.com/?p=1588

I just received this email from A Hillary Delegate in Denver: Just left the Women Count luncheon which featured Hillary and Chelsea here in Denver. Hillary looked fabulous and sounded strong, and Chlesea stood at her side smiling. There were at least 500 people there and many notables. The message was clear --- the sexism in the media and in the Democratic party needs to be addressed and the Women Count PAC WILL be a watchdog for any repeats of the horrendous treatment Hillary received at the hands of the media, the Obama campaign, and the Democratic Party leadership for our future women candidates. And she urged everyone to support the Women Count PAC because it was as necessary as the suffrage groups of the last century. Many nodded and applauded at that. www.womencount.com A nice tribute was made to Stephanie Tubbs Jones, who was to be a featured speaker at this event. Some words somber, some said with humor about this gracious and and dynamic woman. I always thought that she should have been the campaign's chief spokesperson -- she did a fabulous job for Hillary on the national media. God bless her. I keep hearing about the poor treatment of Hillary delegates and supporters as they walk around town. There appears to be no toleration for anything other than Obama, which is sad to see in the Democratic Party. In all the conventions which I have attended, as a delegate or a volunteer worker, I have never seen nor heard of such in tolerance and disrespect of one candidate's supporters by another candidate. I have been warned twice not to wear any Hillary paraphernelia by colleagues because of the abuse being helped upon us. Sad commentary -- this now becoming "a change I can't believe in...."

Important to see this proof of the fraud. The documentary, We Will Not Be Silenced, is up on the film website: http://wewillnotbesilenced2008.com/video/index.htm The information in the film is especially jarring for those who were not in caucus states, but it is information that our party must face. There is a reason why half of all Hillary voters are not currently willing to vote for Obama, and this is a big part of it. Unless our party faces the fact that Hillary voters have grievances that go far, far beyond normal bruised feelings, we will be hamstrung, incapable of taking the White House, and will blow down-ticket races with the negative coattails of a candidate who lacks legitimacy. It would be unfair to delegates, both pledged and super, to withhold this otherwise untold story prior to their votes in Denver. This is, oddly, also an opportunity for unity; if the Obama campaign stated forcefully that they played rough in a caucus system that must be abolished, it would heal a lot of wounds. Hillary voters deserve that much.

Mike Smerconish is on the MSNBC panel at the moment (6:25p EST).

But it is usually the job of the party nominee to build unity once a vanquished rival has conceded and made the right gestures. Unless the loser happens to be a woman. Then it's just like high school, and she must do the work. Great article!

Interesting. HRC is just starting to speak now, but there's an AP article saying she spoke already and what she said. Yes, I know they get the text beforehand, but it's still strange to report on something that hasn't happened yet.

And you know, like with Ted Kennedy and Al Gore, she may end up being as successful if not more and more influential outside of the presidency, at least as far as guiding health care policy. She has the gravitas of being a Senator now rather than just a First Lady.

Moon, if Hillary is imploring you not to vote for McCain, why would you just to be spiteful? And she's giving very good reasons not to.

She gave a brilliant speech. I loved the emotion and the way she ended it with the famous Harriet Tubman words. Totally caught you at every level. And the part about women's rights. OMG! That couldn't have been any better. Now, I'm listening to the heads regurgitating her speech, and how is that they're (and I'm including the infamous anti-Hillariest Chris Matthews) now saying how valid women's concerns have been and that Obama had better stand behind her. Brian Williams just said that they can't ignore the 18 million cracks in the ceiling. Could someone please playback their commentary of a couple of months ago?

It was a fabulous speech. This is an interesting panel with Nora O'Donnell, Pat Buchanan, Rachel Madow and another man I don't know. I'm sick of all the screaming people behind all the various commentators on MSNBC. It interrupts them and it's distracting to them and me.

Moon, are you a PUMA member? Does one become a member or just sort of vaguely follow them?

Yes, I am a Puma. Here is the email I received today from Ricki: ELECTABILITY WATCH (EW) Rasmussen: Obama 44%, McCain 44% McCain gets Bounce during Obama Convention Gallup: Obama 44%, McCain 46% No Bounce for Obama in Post-Biden Tracking This is the first time since Obama clinched the nomination in early June that McCain has held any kind of advantage over Obama in Gallup Poll Daily tracking. All, As we come into the "home stretch", please look at the polling, post-Biden. As a mentor of mine used to say, "Don't get seduced by your own propaganda". For all the glitter and hoopla in Denver, Obama still is not "sealing the deal" with the American voters. IF, and there are lots of ifs. IF the 18 million Hillary voters are accurately represented in Denver (haven't been replaced, threatened or flipped) and vote representing the people who sent them to Denver, and IF the Super Delegates vote for ELECTABIITY, their only job, THEN... IF this could not happen, why are BO and the DNC so afraid of a full open roll call, consistent with proud Democratic tradition? Pledged Delegates and Super Delegates, please think about it. Hillary supporters - in the coming hours, please help them think about it as well. GO GO GO! Ricki I have yet to figure out why sticking to one's beliefs and values should be characterized as "die-hard"... 1. DELEGATE HAPPENINGS � NEW YORK: CHARLES G. STURCKEN, a campaign worker writes, "To my greatest shock and dismay I have learned that Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney will not be voting for Hillary on the first ballot! She should be ashamed that she is voting contrary to the will of her Democratic constituents. The height of her folly is that she is on a book tour peddling her book, "Rumors of Our Progress", about the struggle of women over the past decades !! For shame that she would end up a turncoat ! Shame Shame Shame! I urge all fellow New Yorkers to call her campaign office at 212 - 987 - 5516. OR email her at info@carolynmaloney.com. � CALIFORNIA: Chris Stampolis DNC member from Calif." I signed the official Hillary nomination petition tonite at the Arena. Lots of high profile signers. I expect a roll-call." � KENTUCKY: Olivia Anne Fuchs reporting that "Team Hillary Kentucky & Hillary's Delegates in Denver stand tall for our girl!" � TEXAS: John Grothues: This evening the organizers were making sure that people could sign petitions to nominate Hillary and Obama and for vp Biden. I saw no one discouraging anyone from signing the petition of his or her choice. In fact Obama people were passing the petition to Hillary people and vice versa. It seriously looks like we will get the chance to vote for Hillary. � ALABAMA: Sarah writes: "Due to the terrible way that she was treated in this election, by the press, Obama people, NOT counting Fla. and Michigan votes and etc., I myself feel as Bill Clinton, "This is like a fairytale"!! No matter how this turns out, watch out, HILLARY WILL come back even stronger than ever, BECAUSE NOW SHE KNOWS WHO HER SUPPORTERS ARE". � OHIO: Delegates report consensus that Clinton can not be asked to solve Obama's problem. They say it is up to Obama to make the case for his economic policies and respond to persistent questions about his experience, values, toughness and vision, that no speech from Clinton or anyone else can do for Obama what he most needs to do for himself and has failed miserably, to date. 2. CAUCUS FRAUD: 3% of the total primary voters produced 15% of the total delegates. One person, one vote? Totally distorted totals compounded by rampant fraud? Is this how the Democratic Party chooses a candidate? Apparently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGZFgMNM-UU THE PROCESS OF FLIPPING DELEGATES: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nROKBU_KlZw&feature=related 3. Judgement?: Matt Hicks writes, "Early in the campaign and throughout, Senator Obama has made the statements that this election is not about having the experience but the right "Judgment." Not that I am against Joe Biden as V.P., but that Barack never did consider Senator Clinton as his V.P. choice nor even vetted her. Hillary won the popular vote and is the most qualified candidate to be President let alone V.P. This is one more example of Obama's lack of serious judgment and his tacit acknowledgement of his own lack of experience." 4. WHY? Tony Parente writes: Last couple of days have made me question even more why I should remain a democrat and not become an independent. For example, why is Obama talking so much about McCain's 7 houses instead of accepting McCain's invitation for town halls to talk about issues the American people care about like jobs and healthcare. The Kennedy's own one or ten houses. Who cares how many houses McCain has. And why is Obama sending out text messages about his VP selection at 3am and then saying it had nothing to do with Hillary's 3am ad? How immature is this? And how has this self proclaimed man of unity going to unite the party and sit across from dictators when he can't even reach across the democratic aisle and select the strongest option for VP, Hillary. And lastly, why is it OK for Dean and Pelosi to let Michigan and Florida break the rules now but such a big deal when Hillary won the states and had the momentum? 5. An UWSider drinks the kool aide with a case of the bitters: H: Ricki: Give it up. It's over. You risk being viewed as disloyal, petulant and unrealistic. Not a great way of being perceived for someone whose intelligence, commitment and leadership have been important community assests.(sic) RRL: By whom (will I be so viewed)? H: Those who remember the McCarthy dead-enders who sabotaged Hubert Humphrey and gave us Richard Nixon. And the 2002 Naderites who aided George Bush. Other examples of Democratic circular firing squad abound. RRL: Wow. That's hardly specific. None of us likes to be chatted about behind our back - I would rather know who specifically is offended so we can have a reasonable discussion. Actually - what an extraordinary response, that you would characterize as McCarthyism, my discussions of a potential nominee representing the Democratic Party with values such as having sat in Rev Wright's church for 20 years, associated with and took money from Bill Ayers and Tony Rezko, stood silent with a smirk on his face at the sexist vicious media, asserted falsely he was consistently against the Irag war, rigged the caucuses to fraudulently gain delegates, etc etc. Let me be clear - this is not the party I have valued and worked for, and Obama is certainly not the nominee who represents the values, judgment and experience I believe Democrats should be proud of. If this is your definition of being disloyal, petulant and unrealistic - well, it takes my breathe away. 6. SECOND-PLACE CITIZENS SUSAN FALUDI MUCH has been made of the timing of Hillary Clinton's speech before the Democratic National Convention tonight, coming as it does on the 88th anniversary of women's suffrage. Convention organizers are taking advantage of this coincidence of the calendar �the 19th Amendment was certified on Aug. 26, 1920�to pay homage to the women's vote in particular and women's progress in general. By such tributes, they are slathering some sweet icing on a bitter cake. But many of Mrs. Clinton's supporters are unlikely to be partaking. They regard their candidate's cameo as a consolation prize. And they are not consoled. "I see this nation differently than I did 10 months ago," reads a typical posting... "That this travesty was committed by the Democratic Party has forever changed my approach to politics." In scores of Internet forums and the conclaves of protest groups, those sentiments are echoed, as Clinton supporters speak over and over of feeling heartbroken and disillusioned, of being cheated and betrayed... The despondency of Mrs. Clinton's supporters�or their "vitriolic" and "rabid" wrath, as the punditry prefers to put it � has been the subject of perplexed and often irritable news media speculation. Why don't these dead-enders get over it already and exit stage right? Shouldn't they be celebrating, not protesting? After all, Hillary Clinton's campaign made unprecedented strides. She garnered 18 million-plus votes, and proved by her solid showing that a woman could indeed be a viable candidate for the nation's highest office. She didn't get the gold, but in this case isn't a silver a significant triumph? Many Clinton supporters say no, and to understand their gloom, one has to take into account the legacy of American women's political struggle, in which long yearned for transformational change always gives way before a chorus of "not now" and "wait your turn," and in which every victory turns out to be partial or pyrrhic. 7. Clinton's Thankless Job Marie Cocco I posted that article here yesterday. 8. Obama's woes in microcosm Dick Pollman Macomb County, lower right. DENVER - Stan Greenberg is in town for the convention, and he's talking about Macomb County again. For Democrats who are a tad anxious about Barack Obama, that's not a welcome development. Greenberg, a veteran Democratic pollster who has been tracking that bellwether blue-collar/middle-class Michigan county since 1985, would surely not be sounding the alarm about Macomb if Obama was polling well there. But since Obama is not polling particularly well there, and since Macomb is a crucial piece of the puzzle in Michigan, a state that is shaping up to be a major battleground this autumn, Greenberg is now back to talking about Macomb. And what's most striking is how Obama's current woes in Macomb parallel his challenges nationwide... "They want to vote for change. But they haven't yet figured out a way to do it." And that's because they're not (yet?) comfortable with Obama. ...if you want to track blue-collar white sentiment between now and November, particularly in a pivotal state such as Michigan, keep an eye on Macomb. 9. SANDRA CHRISTIE SPEAKS FOR MANY: My hope is that there is some sanity in the Democratic party and that people understand that women like myself are not "upset" that Hillary lost --we are legitimately appalled by the underhanded tactics of the democratic party in nominating the far-less qualified and far less electable candidate which will effectively saddle us with 4 more years of a Republican president. The media's insistence that our response is emotional is so demeaning. I care about my country and I wanted a Democrat to win. 10. FREE SPEECH? RESPECT? INTEGRITY? Huffington reports that Howard Dean is putting a 5 Second Delay on President Clinton's speech tomorrow evening. AND FINALLY, Janice Dorr reminds us: It was on this day in 1920 that the 19th Amendment was formally incorporated into the U.S. Constitution. It proclaimed, "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex." It ended more than 70 years of struggle by the suffragist movement. It had passed through the House and Senate. At first, it looked like the amendment was not going to make it. And then, a 24-year-old legislator from Tennessee, Harry Burn, decided to vote for the amendment at the last minute because his mother wanted him to. And Tennessee became the 36th state to approve suffrage for women. They sent the certified record of the Tennessee vote to Washington, D.C., and it arrived on August 26, 1920. Secretary of State Bainbridge Colby signed the proclamation that morning at 8 a.m. at his home. There was no ceremony of any kind, and no photographers were there to capture the moment. And none of the leaders of the woman suffrage movement were present to see him do it. Colby just finished his cup of coffee and signed the document with a regular, steel pen. Then he said, "I turn to the women of America and say: 'You may now fire when you are ready. You have been enfranchised.'

I must say it hurt to watch Hillary last night, so presidential. Those stupid Obama supporters don't know what they threw away. She was fantastic! Did you know that the Obama people are going for a five second delay tonight with Bill's speech? Dorine, I resent the fact that DNC selected the candidate. Have you seen the fraud that was perpetuated by the Obama people in the caucuses? Look at the documentary link I posted above. His delegate numbers are a fraud. I can't trust them, they don't speak for me and they ignored the will of the people. Michelle Obama looked as if she were sitting on a firecraker while Hillary was speaking. She smiles only when she or her husband are mentioned. I bet she hated the ovation Hill received last night.

Did you know that the Obama people are going for a five second delay tonight with Bill's speech? They have NO ability to make this happen. They can ask (although I can't imagine they would even try) but it is the networks that do this. Personally, I wouldn't even approach a network to make that request because of how it will look. Michelle Obama looked as if she were sitting on a firecraker while Hillary was speaking. She smiles only when she or her husband are mentioned. I bet she hated the ovation Hill received last night. She did what she was told to do. Her smile was fixed, so plastic. I like to compare MO's mention of the anniversary of women's right to vote vs Hillary's. So much more impact and emotion. When MO mentioned it, I thought it was something she was told to include. Meaningless to her and to her message. Couple that with the part about her daughters' future world. Ugh! Are Americans (principally American women) so stupid and so provincial (or under their husband's thumbs) that they don't realize how pathetic our country is compared to the rest of the world, where women have been heads of state for, what, nearly 30 years? Don't they know that? What is their problem? We're over half the population and don't have anywhere near the representation we should have in government!

So true, Karen! And also ask why the Us still has not passed the Equal Rights Amendment? I care for that more than I care for Roe vs Wade. MO is all about MO it's the Obama theme. :-( I don't believe a word she says, she's not personable. Cindy McCain is in Georgia trying to help that country's people. Here is a comment from and Aol blogger, I happen to agree with: Bridie 7:43AM Aug 27th 2008 Hillary was fantastic, as we all should have expected. You can't blame her for not convincing me to vote for obama. Obama made a huge strategic mistake. He once again demonstrated his arrogance and showed off his inexperience by refusing to bring both President Clinton and Senator Clinton onto his team. More importantly, he is an idiot for believing his own self created mythology. This may be the first time a convention does not create the expected bump in Polls. A truly historic event! His approach so far has been disastrous and the Dems have no one to fault but themselves. The myth that this guy can bring people together is finally seeing the light of day. He doesn't even try when it's hard. This is a guy who has been dependent upon the easy low hanging fruit where he can do nothing and take credit for everything. Pelosi, Reid, Daschle and Dean and all due respect Ted Kennedy, placed a big bet on an unknown, unproven, inexperienced and self fascinated B.S.ing guy with the shallowest resume I have ever see in a presidential candidate.

And another thing, Hillary's mention that BO would sign into law a health care that would cover every American made me cringe. That's her baby, that's her right. BO has copied Hillary's plans since the beginning because he has none. He is as ambitious as they come and will stop at nothing to become President. Is that who you want as a President?

he is an idiot for believing his own self created mythology And a mythology it is. He hasn't done sh*t for anyone, even here in Illinois during his short state legislative term. BTW, I do hope the rumors circulating yesterday aren't true about how the roll call would end with the NY delegation and Hillary turning over her state's votes. How humiliating would that be? She wins all the big states (except IL) and then has to turn them over. The DNC honchos should've just shorn her hair, ripped her clothes and branded her with a red C (for competency) and then put her in a hairshirt. She doesn't deserve this.

(Moon)That's her baby, that's her right. So, Obama can't introduce any improvement because it was already somebody else's idea? Sorry, I don't understand that thinking. You know I was and remain 100% for Hillary, but it's over for now. She will get a high ranking cabinet spot, or if BO bombs in November, she will run again in 2012. Nothing else can be done for now, and nothing is to be gained by spiteful support of McCain. Read the Democratic and Republican platforms and tell me where you think the country's interests are better served. The R platform is diametrcailly opposed to much of what Hillary has spent her career working for. Why would I undermine her work. Yeah, I'm pissed, I really am. I couldn't even watch her speech all the way through becuase I began to cry and get myself upset. But I have to move on.

Mari don't misunderstand, it is not about spite. I don't trust Obama, he's a crook, please read up on his Chicago dealings, watch the documentary. I don't want to be part of his hidden agenda. He was selected not elected. That is not democracy. I consider myself an Independent this election. So, Obama can't introduce any improvement because it was already somebody else's idea? What improvements? Please elaborate. His plan doesn't cover every American.

Luckily, I don't have to vote for O in my state, as it will deliver with or without me. If I prefer to squander my vote on, say, a write-in, it won't help McCain. I don't trust Obama, he's a crook, please read up on his Chicago dealings I should take offense. NOT! They're all crooks. Can't get elected in Illinois without being totally corrupt. BTW, I had to laugh when David Gregory was interviewing Rahm Emmanuel and said he was part of the Chicago mafia. But he was another Clinton person (like Bill Richardson) who didn't support Hillary. No wonder Bill is still angry.

What improvements? Health care was the example you used. His plan doesn't cover every American. Which is one of the many reasons I was for Hillary. Sorry, I can't waste my vote. Imagine how different the country (and the world) might be if eight years ago a few more people in a few more precincts had voted for Gore. (And, no I am not putting BO on Gore's level.)

I haven't read all the comments and can't figure out why someone posted something about an energy issue in the middle of them. Hillary Quietly Calls Out Obama On Universal Health Care By: Ian Welsh Wednesday August 27, 2008 1:32 pm http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/27/hilary-quietly-calls-out-obama-on-universal-healthcare/

Richards: �A woman voting for John McCain would be like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.� By: Blue Texan Wednesday August 27, 2008 9:50 am You probably didn't see it, but that line was delivered by Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood and the daughter of former governor Ann Richards. Not to state the obvious, but the cable news networks suck. I did my best to flip around during the speeches, and at one point, David Gregory and some other air talking head were babbling about the Democrats not attacking -- while on PBS (and right behind them), Kathleen Sebelius was attacking McSame. Unreal. Here's a few of the best moments that the corporate media didn't bother to cover: http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/27/richards-a-woman-voting-for-john-mccain-would-be-like-a-chicken-voting-for-colonel-sanders/

You know, maybe there's some sort of backroom deal a la Tony Blair/Gordon Brown going on we know nothing about. And maybe Hillary will finally be able to work through a health care deal and Obama will help make it happen because he...and the Dems, owe her. Well, and maybe I woke up. ;-)

This is tape delayed an hour or something. I'm reading all his speech comments before he's said them on Firedoglake.com. The time stamps are almost an hour ago. And this speech was supposed to be 10 mins? Heh, heh. I love me some Bill Clinton.

Talk about being in one's element. Damn.

Oh I get it! MSNBC is lying when it says LIVE. Just switched to PBS and it's Biden on, though even their coverage is about 10mins behind what's being liveblogged. Missed Kerry. Wow, what's up with MSNBC?

5. An UWSider drinks the kool aide with a case of the bitters: H: Ricki: Give it up. It's over. You risk being viewed as disloyal, petulant and unrealistic. Not a great way of being perceived for someone whose intelligence, commitment and leadership have been important community assests.(sic) RRL: By whom (will I be so viewed)? H: Those who remember the McCarthy dead-enders who sabotaged Hubert Humphrey and gave us Richard Nixon. And the 2002 Naderites who aided George Bush. Other examples of Democratic circular firing squad abound. RRL: Wow. That's hardly specific. None of us likes to be chatted about behind our back - I would rather know who specifically is offended so we can have a reasonable discussion. Actually - what an extraordinary response, that you would characterize as McCarthyism, my discussions of a potential nominee representing the Democratic Party with values such as having sat in Rev Wright's church for 20 years, associated with and took money from Bill Ayers and Tony Rezko, stood silent with a smirk on his face at the sexist vicious media, asserted falsely he was consistently against the Irag war, rigged the caucuses to fraudulently gain delegates, etc etc. Let me be clear - this is not the party I have valued and worked for, and Obama is certainly not the nominee who represents the values, judgment and experience I believe Democrats should be proud of. If this is your definition of being disloyal, petulant and unrealistic - well, it takes my breathe away. I find Ricki quite disingenuous here in her responses and doesn't impress me at all.

(Karen) Are Americans (principally American women) so stupid and so provincial (or under their husband's thumbs) that they don't realize how pathetic our country is compared to the rest of the world, where women have been heads of state for, what, nearly 30 years? Don't they know that? What is their problem? Were these rhetorical questions? ;-) A naturalized citizen friend of mine was basically saying this exact thing (except for the women part) to me last week. (Moon) Dorine, I resent the fact that DNC selected the candidate. I can't blame you really. Not dissimilar to my feeling over the SCOTUS election decision. Ok, I guess I've multiple posted enough for the night. ;-)

(Dorine) You know, maybe there's some sort of backroom deal a la Tony Blair/Gordon Brown going on we know nothing about. I prefered the backroom dealings when there was more vitriol on the floor. All this smiling and unity crap is giving me early onset diabetes. ;-) (Dorine) I love me some Bill Clinton. Talk about being in one's element. Damn. Yep, the man's a master. Everyone else paled in comparison yesterday, Biden included. Both he and his son were awful speakers. Oh I get it! MSNBC is lying when it says LIVE...Wow, what's up with MSNBC? Who knows? However, I can't really complained because I hardly ever watch anything in real time anymore due to Tivo. I like to be able to FF at all times and will purposely watch something else I have stored so that I can FF. If you want actual live coverage, there is always CSPAN, I think. It may have real gavel-to-gavel coverage, as in times of old.

Biden really did suck the air out of the room didn't he. I felt bad for him actually. He must've hated knowing he had to follow Bill.

Apparently a lot of lookups on son Beau and his "mysterious" ending about not being able to be there for his dad during the final campaign days. Turns out he's a captain in the reserves and is being deployed to Iraq in early October.

Yesterday's roll call was a farce. But how else would Obama let her proceed? He wants to control everything and there was no way he wasn't going to get his phony "Unity" BS out there. It's important to note that the polls are not advancing in Obama's favor as they should be and as they have traditionally done in the past. Also, did you know that when he found out that he wasn't filling that stadium, he reached out and asked Bruce Springsteen to play after his speech?

SHE DONE HIM RIGHT SEN. CLINTON DELIVERS ALL OBAMA COULD ASK Kirsten Powers NY POST WHY is Hillary Clinton not Barack Obama's running mate? That question had to be on many minds last night as Clinton delivered a rousing endorsement of Obama - a speech that moved between inspiration and attack, hitting every note perfectly. The backdrop was constant carping that Hillary hasn't done enough for the candidate she lost the primary to. Never mind that she has behaved immeasurably better than losing candidates before her who'd won far less support than she did. It's easy to get confused about this, since so many in the anti-Hillary media who hysterically demanded her exit from the race have conveniently edited out from history anything that doesn't fit into their nonsense narrative, as if her campaign invented party discord. Let's review: Hillary Clinton - amid outrage at her behavior - made her concession speech and endorsed Obama five days after the last primary. The way Obama's fans in the media tell it, you'd think she took months. Compare to 1984, when Gary Hart waited nearly a month to concede the race to Walter Mondale. Ted Kennedy, who in the ultimate act of disunity challenged an incumbent Democratic president in 1980, waited until the convention to concede to Jimmy Carter. When Kennedy finally did concede, it was barely distinguishable from a temper tantrum. CBS's Walter Cronkite reported, "Kennedy leaves the stand, sober, unsmiling. There will be no pictures in tomorrow morning's paper, and none for posterity, of Ted Kennedy holding Jimmy Carter's hand aloft." As Steve Kornacki (one of the few reporters to show an interest in accurate historical analogies this campaign season) aptly pointed out in The New York Observer, when Kennedy and Hart were running much farther back in their bids for the nomination - Kennedy was trailing by 1,000 delegates in '80; Hart by 600 in '84 - they didn't get hit by any serious pressure to drop out. Clinton, by contrast, was harassed by media to drop out even as she was winning major states and running neck-and-neck with Obama in the popular vote. When she considered taking the fight to the convention, the idea was greeted with disbelief that she'd be so selfish. Yet Hart and Kennedy both fought on at the convention; Kennedy only conceded after failing to change party rules to his favor. It's this double standard that so enrages Hillary supporters. Obama supporters and party leaders continue to insult Hillary voters - and then seem shocked when so many of them say they're going to vote Republican this year. Nancy Pelosi, underscoring why Congress under her leadership has an approval rating teetering on single digits, lectured female Hillary supporters in an interview this week - telling them to not wallow in defeat. Said the multimillionairess daughter of privilege: "I think that women, we have to get away from the politics of victim. This is about you go out there and you fight." Thanks, Nancy. I'm sure all the working-class women who supported Hillary didn't realize that the real problem is they need to get off their butts and "go out there and fight." But now they know that being disappointed that their candidate didn't win - an emotion plenty of men like, say, Ted Kennedy supporters in 1980 have experienced - is actually just being a whiny "victim." This is why John McCain stands at the ready to scoop up any disaffected Clinton supporters. Just as the Democrats' convention was beginning in Denver, the McCain campaign and the Republican National Committee unleashed four TV ads geared toward Hillary voters. (Her response: "I am Hillary Clinton and I did notapprove this message.") The RNC held a press conference with four Democrats who declared their support for McCain since Clinton isn't on the ticket. Proving that truth is stranger than fiction, Hillary die-hards gathered at an RNC -sponsored "Happy Hour for Hillary" in Denver. (Clinton was invited, but demurred.) And, with last night's speech, she pulled out all the stops for Obama. She's done all she could - now the ball's in his court.

Check this out, principally the second part with Samantha Bee: http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=183498&title=media-analysis-unity And this one, you're going to hate: http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=179256&title=Healing-Clinton-Supporters Hillary Clinton - amid outrage at her behavior - made her concession speech and endorsed Obama five days after the last primary. The way Obama's fans in the media tell it, you'd think she took months. Compare to 1984, when Gary Hart waited nearly a month to concede the race to Walter Mondale. Ted Kennedy, who in the ultimate act of disunity challenged an incumbent Democratic president in 1980, waited until the convention to concede to Jimmy Carter. I saw Lisa Caputo toss those examples (and more) back at Chris Matthews, I think, and he kept asking her why she was laughing at him. He was asking her about what HC's speech beforehand. And, I remember, Lisa Caputo, pretty much exasperated, saying "gimme a break!" And then about all those other candidates who didn't endorse their opponents. When she considered taking the fight to the convention, the idea was greeted with disbelief that she'd be so selfish. Yet Hart and Kennedy both fought on at the convention; Kennedy only conceded after failing to change party rules to his favor. It's this double standard that so enrages Hillary supporters. Precisely. :-(

(Moon) Also, did you know that when he found out that he wasn't filling that stadium, he reached out and asked Bruce Springsteen to play after his speech? Where did you hear/read that? I did read he asked him to play, but Stevie Wonder is playing in his spot instead. And they did use that Springsteen song, "The Rising" after he came out with Biden last night. Is that supposed to be his theme, like "Don't Stop" for Bill Clinton, which I noticed they played an instrumental version of when he came out last night.

Why is Gore speaking as if he's late, he's late, for a very important date?

LOL! He had a lot of wonky talk to cram in. Why else? ;-)

I finally switched over to CSPAN because the clowns on MSNBC have nothing original to say and decided to give O's speech before he did. What is the matter with these people? (rhetorical) I've seen Jennifer Garner several times (today and yesterday). No Ben though. And today I saw Jin from Lost.

Post-convention 'bounce' averages 10 points By ALAN FRAM, Associated Press Writer Thu Aug 28, 7:42 PM ET WASHINGTON - And now comes ... the wait for "The Bounce." One thing presidential candidates hope they'll get from their nominating conventions is a healthy "bounce" � a gain in popularity as measured by public opinion polls. Since both parties' 1964 gatherings, candidates have enjoyed an average 10 percentage point gain in their margin against their opponent, based on calculations from figures provided by The Gallup Poll. But this year could be different with the two conventions almost back-to-back. Presidential hopefuls are usually eager to dampen the bounce their rival will enjoy. It's no coincidence that Republican John McCain is expected to announce his vice presidential running mate as early as Friday, a day after Barack Obama delivers his acceptance speech and the Democratic National Convention ends. The post-convention boost, however, doesn't always last and is hardly predictive of election outcomes. Since 1964, there's been no real difference between the bounce enjoyed by the two parties. Democrats have averaged an 11-point gain, Republicans 9 points. There's also no significant difference in bounces by the party that doesn't hold the White House � which by tradition holds the year's first convention � and the incumbent party. The out-of-power party averages an 11-point increase, compared to a 9-point boost for the incumbent party. The biggest boost was the 30-point increase Bill Clinton gained when running for president for the first time in 1992. He never relinquished his lead. The largest for Republicans: the 14-point increases George W. Bush gained in 2000 and that Richard Nixon enjoyed in 1968, and the 13-point bounce Ronald Reagan got in 1980. Clinton and Bush won their first races for president; Nixon, who narrowly lost in 1960, won in 1968 by nearly half a million votes. The smallest bounces were the 4-point drop John Kerry saw in his margin against President Bush in 2004, and the 3-point reduction George McGovern endured in 1972 against President Nixon. Both Democrats lost. These quick popularity boosts don't always mean much. In 1964, President Johnson and Republican Barry Goldwater saw convention bounces of about the same size, while in 1984 Democrat Walter Mondale's 16-point boost was double President Reagan's. Johnson and Reagan won landslides. In 2004 Bush got the smallest GOP bounce measured yet � 2 points � and was re-elected. Obama's bounce this year could be limited not only by McCain's expected selection of a running mate, but by the Republican convention itself, which begins four days after the Democrats' ends. But McCain's bounce could also be stifled. Gustav, a storm in the Caribbean, was nearing hurricane strength Thursday and could hit the Gulf Coast early next week, potentially a major distraction. And McCain's acceptance speech next Thursday night will have to compete with the nationally televised opening game of the NFL season, featuring the Super Bowl champion New York Giants.

Ben is there, Karen. I saw Jen with I think it was Jessica Alba last night.

I don�t believe that Sen. McCain doesn�t care what�s going on in the lives of Americans. I just think he doesn�t know. Why else would he define middle-class as someone making under five million dollars a year? How else could he propose hundreds of billions in tax breaks for big corporations and oil companies but not one penny of tax relief to more than one hundred million Americans? How else could he offer a health care plan that would actually tax people�s benefits, or an education plan that would do nothing to help families pay for college, or a plan that would privatize Social Security and gamble your retirement? It�s not because John McCain doesn�t care. It�s because John McCain doesn�t get it. As the young'uns say....Word.

One thing I'll say about that speech outside of the content, I can't say I heard a lot of emotion behind it, unlike say, Bill Clinton's speech. I marvelled at that and really felt it, but can't say that about Obama's. But outside of that, it was a very well delivered speech. He's not dull, to me. I await John McCain's speech and all of the Republican Convention. I don't think I've ever watched so much of any convention, Dem or Republican, before.

I think it's a riot the way the cable commentators are reading tea leaves on the R's VP choice. "If a plane leaves Alaska and heads toward Ohio . . ." Is that crafty old McCain about to pull a stunner? LOL, stay tuned.

I couldn't come up with a name, but I did see Jessica Alba as well, in a shot with Jennifer. No Ben for me. Wonder if the celebs were told to stay off camera. I think they were too conspicuous four years ago, and Kerry got an image of being supported by too many Hollywood types, which was offputting to many Americans who hold "family values" above brains. ;-)

Yep, Ben was there, and J-Lo too.

Didn't see either, but I had CSPAN on for most of last night's coverage. I'm curious why no one is pointing out the blatant lie, included in most of the speeches about Obama not going to some big-time law firm following graduation and chooseing, instead, to work among the out-of-work steelworkers? He and Michelle worked for Sidley & Austin, probably the biggest in Chicago, the most connected. Yeah, he didn't go to Wall Street, but S&A ain't small potatoes, doing storefront pro bono stuff.

McCain chooses Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin for V.P. By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer 4 minutes ago DENVER - John McCain tapped little-known Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to be his vice presidential running mate on Friday in a startling selection on the eve of the Republican National Convention. Two senior campaign officials disclosed Mccain's decision a few hours before the Republican presidential nominee-to-be and his newly-minted running mate appeared at a rally in swing-state Ohio. Palin is a self-styled hockey mom and political reformer who has been governor of her state less than two years. Palin's selection shocked numerous Republican officials. In making his pick, Mccain passed over several more prominent prospects who had figured in speculation for months � Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge among them. At 44, Palin is a generation younger that Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware, who is Barack Obama's running mate on the Democratic ticket. She is three years Obama's junior, as well � and McCain has made much in recent weeks of Obama's relative lack of experience in foreign policy and defense matters. Palin flew overnight to an airport in Ohio near Dayton, and even as she awaited her formal introduction, some aides said they had believed she was at home in Alaska. She is a former mayor of Wasilla who became governor of her state in December, 2006 after ousting a governor of her own party in a primary and then dispatching a former governor in the general election. More recently, she has come under the scrutiny of an investigation by the Republican-controlled legislature into the possibility that she ordered the dismissal of Alaska's public safety commissioner because he would not fire her former brother-in-law as a state trooper.

What an odd choice for McCain. Would love to know the reasoning over some more high profile people. And I thought Nora O'Donnell and her smug self was saying *her* source indicated it was Pawlenty, but maybe I misremember. Maybe she didn't say and I assumed Pawlenty. I saw a picture of Ben (with a beard) sitting at the convention with Jen I thought about posting, but didn't. I didn't see J-Lo, but read she was there.

More recently, she has come under the scrutiny of an investigation by the Republican-controlled legislature into the possibility that she ordered the dismissal of Alaska's public safety commissioner because he would not fire her former brother-in-law as a state trooper. This only makes sense is 'fire' should've been 'hire.' Known as a political reformer? Beating an incumbent of her own party? Man, this is a brilliant move.

to work among the out-of-work steelworkers I don't understand this. How does a lawyer work among any kind of steelworker?

(karen) More recently, she has come under the scrutiny of an investigation by the Republican-controlled legislature into the possibility that she ordered the dismissal of Alaska's public safety commissioner because he would not fire her former brother-in-law as a state trooper. Oh right! I read about this situation a couple of weeks ago, but didn't pay attention to the gov's name nor make the connection now.

Until now rather.

What an odd choice for McCain. How? This is intended to balance not only his age, but outlook. She's young! And she's a she, which they're counting on attracting disenfranchised Hillary supporters. Without knowing a whole lot about her specifically, women are going to feel more comfortable with her on the ticket, thinking that their rights will be protected. Not necessarily a valid conclusion, given our history with people like Phyllis Schlaffly (sp?). :-( BTW. in the speeches last night wasn't there a mention of the next president possibly getting to appoint three Supreme Court justices in his first term? Which ones are likely to be retiring? Do you think a deal was struck for Hillary to be named, with a tacit promise to be elevated to Chief if it opens up?

How does a lawyer work among any kind of steelworker? He probably donated a bit of his time to the various outplacement centers, helped them fill out forms, etc. It isn't as though the Gary steel mills ever reopened. I had a college friend who wrote her doctoral dissertation on the leisure activities of those same blue-collar workers. We used laugh about how she was awarded a doctorate on bowling. ;-)

Palin is adamantly anti-abortion, a lifelong member of the NRA, and for aggressive drilling in the Alaska wildlife preserve. What a pandering move. Still shame on BO for not picking Hill. (Karen)This only makes sense is 'fire' should've been 'hire.' No, it's fire. He was involved in a bitter child custody dispute with her sister and she wanted him out. (Karen)Do you think a deal was struck for Hillary to be named, with a tacit promise to be elevated to Chief if it opens up? Not chief, but on the Supreme Court, or Secretary of State or Attorney General. Definitely a deal struck; that's the buzz among the Hill folks here in Joisey, for what it's worth.

Expecting John Roberts to die/retire relatively soon? Isn't he the youngest of the bunch? Ginsberg (sp?) is one of the next ones out I'd think. Atty General maybe for Hil. I'd think Bill Richardson...or even Bill Clinton for State.

While Secretary of State is a good position, she wouldn't be the first female. Attorney General? Who cares? Besides anything in his administration makes her subordinate to him. I'd go with Supreme Court and a promise to be elevated. That's the kind of ground-breaking role she'd take this dive for. Two branches of government headed by women? Yeah, that's the ticket. Merely being Sandra Day O'Connor's successor--refilling the second woman's seat--wouldn't be enough.

(Do)Expecting John Roberts to die/retire relatively soon? LOL, no, which is why I said *not* "chief." Stevens, the old liberal, is in his '80s and likely to retire, I'd think.

Besides, I think Secretary of State has been promised to Oprah. ;-)

Attorney General? Who cares? No, the Atty General's office in the past 7 years is perceived by some as helping the current administration "justify" and "legalize" torture, localize all power into the Executive Branch and override 4th Amendment protections. In general, stomping on the Constitution rather than upholding it. I'd want someone like Hillary to bring some integrity back to that office and use it to protect our citizens, not spy and spit on them.

I'm not arguing it isn't an important position and the one that would deal with the speech's phrase of "contempt for the Constitution," I'm just saying that role isn't high profile enough for her. Plus it has the image going way back of being the president's hired gun. Nope

I wouldn't want the Supreme Court in any capacity. Nobody hears about those people except at the beginning of term and at the end when their decisions are made. I wouldn't want that if I were her.

Except if you're working for a legacy. Could anyone but Chelsea Clinton be able to say that my father was president of the US and my mother was a Supreme Court justice or Chief Justice (men have been known to have unexpected, fatal heart attacks, especially at younger ages) ;-)