roving wiretaps bill passes .. buh bye privacy

~terry Mon, Nov 9, 1998 (17:49) seed

Late last week, with no open debate at all, a joint House/Senate committee amended their "intelligence authorization" bills to include a provision greatly expanding provisions for roving wiretaps. The provision was not in the original house or senate versions of the bills submitted to the conference committee; two years earlier, the House had rejected roving wiretaps. Under the provisions of the bill, you will no longer need to be a criminal suspect to be wiretapped -- you won't even need to know the suspect! If the suspect visits your home or business, any communications device there will be subject to wiretapping too, even if the suspect does not intend to use it. When the bill left the committee, it was no longer subject to amendment, and could only be accepted or rejected. Both houses passed the bill, and it is awaiting Clinton's signature. Is this what they've been doing behind closed doors while giving us the Lewinsky circus?

~wolf Mon, Nov 9, 1998 (20:44) #1

hell, they're just making what they've been doing legal is all, maybe not constitutionally correct, but now they can't lose a litigation for illegally wire-tapping your phone! i know my phone lines at work are monitored....

~TIM Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (16:19) #2

I fail to see the problem. I don't have conversations about illegal activities. They can tap my phone anytime they want with my blessings. MY only request is that they also trace my calls and let me have access to the information. I'd love to get my hands on those telemarketers.

~ratthing Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (21:23) #3

fine for you but not for me. i dont have convos about illegal activities either, but it is too easy now for someone to claim that i do.

~wolf Sun, Nov 15, 1998 (21:37) #4

yeah, what's that called? where they take bits of your conversation and fuse it back together? i don't talk about anything either....oh well, guess we knew this was next.

~riette Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (04:45) #5

the promised land...

~TIM Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (08:28) #6

I think you are paranoid. yes they can do what you are saying, but they always could. Question is: Why would they?

~wolf Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (09:12) #7

who're you talking to, tim? (re: paranoid) why do they do it? got me....

~TIM Mon, Nov 16, 1998 (21:45) #8

I was talking to Ray. Sorry, I should have addressed it to Him. I was asking why they would patch together a conversation from a wiretap. There are easier ways to frame someone.

~ratthing Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (09:32) #9

the more important question is, "why wouldn't they?"

~wolf Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (09:58) #10

they'd have no fun with the stuff i talk about, rather blah to say the least!

~TIM Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (13:00) #11

I don't think it really matters. I know how wiretaps work, and how bugs work. If they want to waste the time and effort, let"em.

~wolf Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (20:47) #12

boy, aren't you a little jack of all trades *grin* so, what is your line of work, oh mighty tim?

~TIM Tue, Nov 17, 1998 (22:13) #13

I drive heavy trucks, local and shorthaul.

~wolf Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (10:25) #14

and you moonlight as a 007, right? *heehee*

~TIM Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (16:43) #15

NO! But, I've been trained in physical security by our favorite uncle. Detecting wiretaps and bugs was part of my job.

~wolf Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (19:32) #16

i thought as much! which branch?

~TIM Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (19:59) #17

Army. They also taught me to read write and speak russian.

~wolf Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (20:02) #18

linguistics, eh? that's one of the toughest schools to go to for the military, so i hear...

~TIM Wed, Nov 18, 1998 (21:49) #19

95% of the applicants fail the qualification test. 25% fail to get a security clearance before the class starts. My class started with 280 students, 35 graduated. In a one year course, you earn 90 college credit hours. This is the way the course is figured: 8 hours instruction, 8 hours study, 8hours sleep, 5 days a week. Every week you are tested. You have to maintain a 90% or better, across the board, or you fail. No second chance. By the 6th week, you are not allowed to speak english in the classroom. B the 12th week you are not allowed to speak english anywhere on the school premises. By the 18th week you are not allowed to speak english during duty hours, no matter where you are. This is comical because the cadre can't speak anything but english. By the 18th week the cadre has to use interpreters to talk to students. Cadre is your company commander, first sargeant, platoon sargeant, etc.

~wolf Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (07:47) #20

gotcha. i knew someone who failed out of linguistics (russian) for the air force.

~ratthing Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (08:33) #21

one of the smartest guys i know is a retired USAF colonel who once worked as a russian expert for the Air Intelligence Agency. i took russian in college but this guy was really good. are you retired army, tim? i work as a contractor for the Army MEDCOM right now. i grew up in a military family and really like working with military folks and retirees.

~TIM Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (13:17) #22

I am ex-army, not retired. I was in 6 years.

~wolf Thu, Nov 19, 1998 (17:43) #23

and have you been a truck driver ever since?

~TIM Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (04:01) #24

No, I started negotiating oil leases, lasted two years, went bust. Then, I worked as a cabinetmaker, for a year. Then worked in a foundry for 2 years. Worked industrial construction for 1 year. Then became a truck driver, for the last nearly 9 years

~terry Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (09:20) #25

Have you worked on drilling rigs?

~TIM Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (10:06) #26

All I did was: pick out a property, negotiate a lease, and then, either sell the lease, or persuade a wildcatter to drill. At one point I bought a wheat farm, 640 acres, a full section, because all the mineral rights went with it. There was no oil on the place, but I did a few things to make people think there was, and sold the place for 3 times what it was worth as a farm. Don't get me wrong, I never, at any time, told anyone, that oil was present. I just kept my mouth shut and acted like there was oil present. It worked, hook, line, and sinker.

~wolf Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (11:12) #27

oh, you're a con artist!

~TIM Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (13:19) #28

Not anymore than any salesman trying to sell something is. What I basically did was to form a company on the side. an exploration company. Then I filed a lease with that company leasing oil rights, with myself, as property owner, getting a large cash settlement and a large percentage of the royalties. I then hired a wildcatter from out of state to make a show of drilling. all this while the property was on the market. After the drilling started, I had five offers within three days all insisting on transfer of 100% of mineral rights. I never told anybody there was any oil on the land.

~TIM Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (13:27) #29

I had the land listed at a fair price for farm land with me retaining mineral rights. It was a fact that I had to sell the land within a short time because I needed the money and all involved knew this. Everyone bidding on the land wanted the mineral rights. I really wanted to keep the mineral rights. But I knew that I would never sell the land without the mineral rights in a short time. So I just upped the ante by doing what I did.

~wolf Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (17:45) #30

what in the hell are mineral rights? no oil, but lots of minerals?

~TIM Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (17:45) #31

Mineral rights are the ownership of everything below the ground, including oil, that is there naturally.

~wolf Fri, Nov 20, 1998 (17:45) #32

never heard of owning everything below the ground. what if i owned everything above ground? where would it end?

~terry Sat, Nov 21, 1998 (21:53) #33

Hey, I'm setting up a drilling rig out at my place in the country. Heh!