don't think it's necessarily a male gender problem but the whole hypocrisy thing has GOT to go. Don't tell me I'm inconsistent and run hot cold when you are a stranger to follow through and falter with the seasons. (maybe this should be considered venting... sorry guys) I'm mad and sad and really too busy to put up with bs that's just bringing me down.

You SAY you want to hear about our day, but then act annoyed if it can't be summed up in 2 sentences...meanwhile, we have to listen to all your boring work stories...no fair!

you have one like that too?!?! (oh already I feel better!) (something about just knowing your relationship is NOT the MOST dysfunctional and abnormal!)

and why is it that the rules are different? how come it's ok if I'm running late but not if he is? (and we drive in the same d--- car?) I even switched my hours to accomodate him.

(autumn, you really should get a handle on that anger... you're kinda scaring me:) sorry you guys are feeling mad and sad and stuff... just don't be so passive... for all the frigging talk i've endured from women over the years about things i've done, or things i didn't do, about motives and intentions and (oh god) "feelings"- it's always mystified me how indirect and sideways feminine logic can be... if you're pissed off because something i did made you late for work, say something about it (and say it THEN, please)... don't wait till like a week later, and i'm playing poker with my friends or something, and then start some kitchen crisis thing about how i don't really care about your feeeeelings... and if you're really pissed, say so- and say it in a way i'll understand... don't maintain this facade of calm, gentle reason, if you don't really mean it... 'cause i, like most guys, i think, will take you at your word... i don't analyze what you said, and interpret it through some special knowledge- which each of you apparently intrinsically possesses- of the secret meanings of words... if you say it's not a big deal, i believe that, dope that i am... and when, in the middle of a peaceful sleep 2 weeks later, and i am jarred awake by the godawful, fingernails-on-a- chalkboard sound of feminine bleating and wailing, i'll have no idea what you're wailing about (even after you've told me i don't care about your feeeeeelings... will still require a little more specificity... and even then i may've forgotten the whole damn thing... because that's what i do when an incident is over... forget about it... foreign concept to most of you, i know)... uh, anyway... thank you for listening... (ready for my beating now...)

what did you say? *grin*

*laugh* with the image of you cowering, I wouldn't have the heart to chastize. BTW, if you men take everything for what it's worth then why the heck do we have so many misunderstandings? I ask a question, you think I'm asking because I'm dissatisfied with this or that, get mad and it's all over. OR, a classic, you've upset me, I've let it be known, then you're pissed (and take it out on me) because you didn't mean to make me angry. I'm all for the get it out then but, c'mon, do you really ever let it go? You don't remember a lot of things (anniversaries, big days, my favorite flower (or that I like them at all) but you sure remember the time I told you that you were inconsistent and will continue to throw it into my face at will until something better (as ammunition) comes along. I did once hear what I believe to be a truism... women forgive and never forget men forget and don't know how to forgive and since this is a female venting column... I have no fears of repercussions *nasty grin* (can't really feel nasty towards you, nick. sorry, I know that's have the thrill for you!)

I think my husband is definitely for the facade of calm, gentle reason, but I just can't let things go...I have to express my "feelings" at that moment, no matter how much tension it will create. I must say that's one of the benefits of having children; they take the edge off the intensity of the spousal relationship. Their very presence acts as a buffer.

Know that feeling (Stacey and Autumn). Another one I can't figure out is (now let me give you a set up). Think Nick likes "abuse" we're in the car (he's driving). A car slows way the hell down in front of us, I look over at him (of course, ready to slam the oh shit break) and he sees this from the corner of his eye and says "I saw the car" in an annoyed tone. Next minute, another car does the same thing and I say nothing and he says "Why didn't you tell me that car was slowing down?" Catch 22, wouldn't you say? I'm a venter, that's true. A door slammer and holleror, but no bite. Can clam it up in a hurry too (in more ways than one). Well, there goes that wonderful image I of myself! *giggle*

sometimes misunderstandings are caused by a fundamental difference in point of view, i think... does the fact that i'm not always focused on your feelings- meaning that i don't filter every thing i think or say through my (probably erroneous, anyway) perception of what your feelings might be- mean that i don't care about them? so, like, when i answer your dissatisfaction with irritation, you take it for anger (when it's not that at all... it's just an instinctive reaction to entering the realm of "i can't win, so why bother?")... and sometimes, i can just plain be in a bad mood (as can you)... one difference, though- when you're in a bad mood, i don't analyze and/or assign motives to it... (i write it off, as a bad mood... and find cover as soon as possible... good time to pick up that really slow-rising bread at the bakery down the block, across the street from the tavern... which is as good a place to wait for it as any)... it's like, i don't hold you responsible for your foul moods (only human, right?)... but nearly every woman i've been with applies deep motives to mine (which are rare, believe it or not, and consist only of a desire to be left alone for awhile... and maybe just a little sarcasm... can be rather disposed toward that)... and you have no idea how frustrating the "unintentional upset" thing can be... it's like, i have a hard enough time as it is, you know, convincing you that i'm one thing (one image, that i know you expect)- and then going out to war, basically, every day... making a living in a world which compels me to be entirely another thing 8, 10, 14 hours a day (because all those things you love me for mean zero out there)... how can you not expect some kind of residual impact? even some difficulty sometimes "changing gears", or whatever... seems like the least i can expect (and you, too, of course) is the benefit of the doubt... the inclination to believe that i wouldn't hurt you on purpose (which oughta mean a hell of a lot... shouldn't it?)... regarding the letting go, thing... i think that's probably right... but it's not necessarily a matter of not forgiving... i think it's more like we're harder to hurt, but when you've really drawn blood, the hurt stays with us longer, and maybe even deeper... remember, we're conditioned from the time we're born to shake things off... just makes sense that that kind of thinking can intensify pain, in the end... (however, nurturing resentment from being called "inconsistent" does seem a bit much... think i'd have to let that one slide, or maybe take it as a compliment... or maybe fire back, "not always!" and leave it at that)... and any guy that actually forgets birthdays, anniverseries, etc... is asking for/ultimately deserves his inevitable demise... that's pretty basic stuff (covered first day, relat.101), as are flowers, especially your favorite flowers... every woman should be able to count on that stuff... oh, and regarding the "benefits of having children" thing, i have to agree... they do make excellent butlers...

don't need a buffer THAT bad. The kittens are at least a distraction. *smile*

You guys don't know what the hell you're complaining about. I HAVE TWO SETS OF OUT-LAWS!

*laugh* and does your husband feel the same?

Yeah, thank God, otherwise it would in my opinion be ground for divorce AND I'd sue him for a million in compensation for irritation endurance! No, we feel the same about all the foul out-laws. With his real parents and mine, we both hate my father and his mother. So, once Mr. C came up with this one: My father and his mother would be the perfect match for one another - he'd have a reason to booze, and she'd have a reason to suffer! HA-HA! I thought that rather a sharp little comment.

We have a tyrant and a martyr in the family (married to each other), and it doesn't seem to work as well as you'd think....

Ha-ha! Sad, isn't it? That people can be so appalling, they don't even appeal to others as appalling as themselves!!

Oh heck, Autumn - these two people don't happen to be your parents, do they? If so, I'm really sorry; I did not mean to offend. I just don't have much sympathy for martyrs and tyrants. They're too much of a bore.

ROTFLOL! No! *shudder*

Oh good! I find it a little interesting that there is a topic, called 'men are from mars', and not one entitled, 'women are from the moon'. I guess they have nothing to complain about, right?

Riette, the phrase is from a book title... Men are from Mars, Women from Venus. I think the author's last name is Gray. A funny book with many sequels discussing the differences between men and women and how they can better relate to one another.

And every single copy sold to a woman....

(not so...)

HA-Ha! I'll order it from Amazon.com. and place it under my husband's pillow - then pretend he's been bewitched by it, and understands me perfectly. Oh, the beauty of being truthful to oneself . . .

HA-Ha! I'll order it from Amazon.com. and place it under my husband's pillow - then pretend he's been bewitched by it, and understands me perfectly.

Oops . . . I seem to be echoeing all over the place today.

Wer, I applaud your interest in relationship dynamics. It seems most men don't want to go there...

Wer is a feminist.

Au contraire... WER would like to be locked in a closet with a feminist and try and discover the key to making women happy, healthy, extremely sexual beings without pissing them off! (I suppose most men secretly want this no matter how obnoxiously insensitive they can appear at times)

HA-HA! I'm sure you're right, as far as the 'exremely sexual beings' is concerned anyway . . .

speaking of insensitive (sorry, ladies, but I'm butting in again), I do believe in equality until it is proven that one isn't, but that generally has nothing to do with one's age, sex, race, etc. However, I refuse to listen to raving feminists unless they answer the following question with a yes (for United States women, that is): Have you written your congressmen and demanded that women be part of the draft? If they say yes, I will listen to them until their throats are raw and support them every step of the way. If, however, they say no, then they can lick my masculinity before I listen to another word, because they are wanting more than they are willing to pay for. This does not mean that I support the military and/or war, just that if you are an obvious hypocrite, please do not waste both of our's time. In general, however, I both expect the same level of performance from everyone, and give everyone equal opportunity to excel or fail to the level of their abilities. and, yes, I do love intelligent thought provoking discourse, continuing self-education, and human sexuality because I am curious to a fault and and will almost always answer whatever someone asks because too much is held secret and/or obscured with religion in a part of human interaction that is so necessary to a person who wants to function in society I missed out on a lot of socialization over the years and am unable to integrate into "normal" activities because of that, and sex is one of the areas that I can socially talk in without accute and painful self-awareness or with an air of condescension on my part because I am attempting to compensate for my lack of formal education and/or social inclusion

wow WER, thank you for the honest discourse. For the record, even when we aren't speaking of sex, I do find you extremely stimulating. I like the fact you don't hide the dark regions of your heart/mind (at least not all of them) because your sincerity helps me reason with the notion, I have similar emotional/mental/philosophical black holes. When we talk I feel both normal and unique. And I am grateful for both sensations.

thank you (I'll be leaving again, and as I said earlier, sorry for the interruption, ladies)

People, I have just made a most hilarious discovery about Mr. C. For over four years now I have been wondering about the very strange noises coming from the bathroom when he is in there. Yesterday I discovered the answer: he gurgles with his shower water. The strange noises are, of course, produced when he doesn't catch that many drops or when they get stuck in his throat - and all this time I've been on the verge of calling a doctor, thinking he might be choking or having a heart attack or something. What a relief! And not.

Mr. S. literally clips his fingernails every other day. It took me about 2 years of marriage to figure out what that "ping pinging" sound was coming from the bathroom...

HA-HA!!! Why are men so disgusting? I mean, they fart, they burp, and my brother can play the Namibian anthem with his armpit. WHY?!?!?!

They are more in harmony with their bodies and their many functions--they embrace themselves and we repress our functions. What does that say about us? (How does the Namibian anthem go, anyway?)

We're civilized? I think I'm pretty much in touch with my body, but I never feel the urge to fart and burp in front of others - I'd NEVER stop blushing again! As far as the Namibian anthem is concerned - I've heard the armpit version so often, I don't know the words anymore. The armpit version goes something like this: no, shit, there aren't letters for the armpit version. I suppose it sounds a little like someone farting in time to a Jimmy Sommerville balad.

Oh, the guys there must love it!

Oh, I'm sure. Though I must confess, when I was a kid I took part in many a burping competition against my brother and sister. I can make burps that come straight from the stomach like a lion's roar. My brother taught me them. But I never do it in company anymore, only when I'm hugely frustrated. The one time I did it in front of Mr. C. he was stunned for three days.

when your men shave... do you end up with the same detached soapy hair ring in your sink that I have in mine? Mr. B is a stickler about rinsing out the sink after he brushes his teeth but would leave a beard ring for days I think.

No, thank God. That's what I love most about Mr. C. He wears a full beard. (no, he does not look like AL) And he clips it over the loo, so we're alright. He even puts the seat down after he's had a wee, so he has his good points. I just love bearded men . . .

Ha-ha, loving the M.I.B. Men In Beards.

Never liked the beards...

I like lots and lots of hair, especially beards - they tickle. I really don't like men with beautiful faces though; I find a rough, ugly face much more appealing - it's so masculine. Am I sick?

I like more of a rugged look too--can't stand that prettyboy, Tom Cruise look!

For as much as I hear women complaining about the 'scratchy' 5 o'clock shadow or a few days growth... I enjoy the roughness... in certain places!

*wink wink*

I second AND third that!

My Goodness! I don't really know if all the things y'all are complaining about (many of them valid) have to do just with men. Don't same sex couples, triples, etc. have many of the same problems? Can't anything become annoying, then infuriating, and finally enraging if you have to put up with it long enough (like, Oh, say, the Wife's inability to learn to replace an empty roll of toilet paper in the last SIXTEEN YEARS!!!!!)?... :_)

Maybe It's me, but I did not see any complaints in the three responses prior to number 49.

TommyCotC, you sound so HAPPY!!! How are things?? Tim, you should see some of the other responses! We were complaining ourselves into a coma!

OH sorry I only paged back a little way.

Gotta read it all Tim, if you want the 'Big Picture'

Yeah I forget to go far enough back sometimes. makes for some really funny answers.

See? They post something and I haven't a clue what it means...! A Marcian from Venus...

I've gone deaf and blind...and I thought Ihad oly lost my buttons and bars!

curiouser and curiouser .....