terry HI,i am very new on the internet so i called magellan for chats ,i mean searched ;since i am a liitle bit conservative in language ,i decided to join this chat group, i do not have any web site yet, i am just learning internet, my parents come from yougoslavia ,but we are not serbians thank god,now i am staying in Turkey.good lovely friendly people;at least there is no shooting in T urkey, we are very greatful to USA for backing us up,

if i get lost i do not even how to know to find this chat room so please help me

I'll drop you an email to remind you if I don't hear from you again in a while. Welcome!

Hi, I'm Don from upstate NY. I am presently a full-time student enrolled in Professional and Technical Communciations in a 4 year school. I have many interests including politics.

Hi! I'm a full time student studying political science and communications at the University of Michigan. I'm somewhat of a political junkie, particularly around election time. I am developing a greater interest in international issues, though. Right now the proposed expansion of NATO has peaked my interest.

Hi, Sara, do tell more! WER

I'm very interested in the Senate debates on the future of NATO. I'd like to see what kind of issues they are going to bring up. Right now, I am of the opinion that the Eastern European countries should be included, hopefully it would help establish and/or stabilize democratic governments. However, you also have to consider the effects for the current members of NATO. Given that NATO is based on a pledge of collective self-defense the current members may be forced to honor that pledge since the area i fairly unstable right now. This may well be more than the members are willing to do at this point in time. What are everyone else's thoughts on the subject?

Obviously, in light of events this decade, NATO- as constituted originally- is obsolete. The question all member nations must answer is what the aims of this essentially new organization are- beyond "collective self-defense", of course, because that initial aim only made sense within the context of the old order of things. If the establishment and/or stabilization of democratic governments is the aim- and I agree, it ought to be- then the fledgling, terribly unstable democracies of Eastern Europe manife tly should be included. Do believe, though, that our approach should be cautious, indeed (pragmatically idealistic?)- and that consensus much be reached with all member nations to make it doable (and it is a tough sell)...

I agree, but will this give the American World Police Force more justification, and ultimately bring the One World Government into existence quicker? WER

I don't necessarily agree that NATO is obsolete concerning all of its original purposes. Surely, the major purpose of security in during the Cold War is not necessary to the same extent as it was, but the issue of Russia's nuclear capabilities has not been settled. Also, part of NATO's function has been to allow German some form of defense that does not threaten its neighbors, especially France. Thus, Germany's military forces are all under NATO command and there is no direct German command structure. Without NATO Germany would have to be rearmed under its own command. Any proposal dealing with changes to NATO must take these factors into consideration. Based on this I would say that NATO cannot and should not be eliminated, but still needs to adapt to the post-Cold War international environment. I think that expansion of the membership and military subcontracting for the UN are the best way to do this.

What you say is true, but these other functions are tangential to the real purpose NATO served- NATO defined the western bloc, was the necessary political answer to the Warsaw Pact (or vice versa, depending on where you sit). And most importantly- for the viability of it in fact- it served the needs of the United States, to maintain it's postwar presence- and, of course, to fascilitate American business interests throughout Europe. Do agree that NATO shouldn't be eliminated- just believe that achieving clear consensus of purpose among members is going to be a sticky proposition, at best...

I really think it is a dinosaur in the current political and world environment. With the threat of highly regionalized conflicts in areas such as Africa and Asia a distinct possibility the defensive role that it has filled is no longer needed. In the event of a conflict in this theatre it would be on a much smaller scale than the WW3 all out confrontation that NATO was meant to counter. Past performance of NATO forces in smaller conflicts have been lackluster at best. The NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY ORGANIZATI N has seen better days.

I've been wondering why we've had a bit of a spurt in the politics conference and today I picked up a book on Internet BBSs and there were several references to the Spring. They said it "offers discussion on everything from the latest movies to intense political debate" and called the Spring one of the "great Internet messaging systems" The book is 'Internet BBSs A Guided Tour' by Richard Smark.

I'd have to disagree with you SA. NATO has the only viable multilateral interanational military force. The UN certainly isn't up to par in that respect and has started to subcontract the military aspects of their operations to NATO. The WEU has the potential to become the military arm of the European Union, but it has not reached that capacity yet.

I've opening a topic 7 on NATO and European poltics if you would like to use it.

Congrats on the review, terry. WER

I guess viable is a relative term where you come from! In terms of viable military forces Nato doesn't even show up on the map!

So what's the conclusion, is NATO outmode?

No consensus reached, actually- topic gathered a little steam (see NATO topic), then sort of dried up. Where do you stand?

little tired of all the politiking about nothing in the media... thought I'd read (if not share) some intelligent opinions here! Hiya George! Long time, no reading your posts! *smile*

DATE:JAN./ 1 /1998 Stop U.S.A. Cover up. FROM: Robert Moore, Minister Plenipotentiary; Phone: (808) 923 0476; Fax: (808) 923 0477 WORLDWIDE RELEASE: GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF ENENKIO IS SHUNNED BY THE US CONGRESS: Despite repeated overtures to the United States Congress and the Clinton administration for a peaceful settlement of claims, a state of war continues to exist over control of the atoll commonly referred to as Wake Island. The weapons employed in this �cold war� are pen and paper. The battleground is framed over a legacy of more than 2000 years of ownership, use and control by Marshallese ancestors of King Murjel Hermios, First Monarch of the Kingdom and Paramount Chief of the Northern Atolls of the Rata Archipelago. The battle formally began in 1993. Over the course of the decade, the Kingdom has established its autonomy by asserting allodial and traditional rights of the King under universal principles of human rights, the common law, international law and articles of the United Nations Charter. No threat has been made to the security of the United States and no resistance has been encountered. A similar atmosphere of disregard by world news and other media reverberates hollow. In fact, �de facto� recognition via correspondence from U.S. agencies nd officials and diplomatic recognition from foreign states during the past four years would fill a volume. URGENT CALL FOR FINANCIAL RELIEF TO END THE WAR: The government of the Kingdom is in possession of substantial assets it is willing to market to secure funding for peaceful settlement of the conflict with the United States. They are available to be used as collateral to secure a development loans or to be converted to negotiable financial instruments. Prime banks in Pacific Rim nations, Europe or South America are now encouraged to assist the government of the Kingdom with their development through one of the following: 1. Debt Collateralization - a very substantial debt has been perfected against the United States Department of Interior in the hundreds of millions (US). 2. Treasury Bill - a bill in the amount of 3.7 million (US) is available for immediate funding. 3. Contract Obligation - under a treaty with a South Pacific state, a contract was signed in which the Kingdom will receive 10% of all revenue derived from a major commercial and financial development project in the North Pacific. 4. War Bonds - the Kingdom has a program to issue bearer bonds backed by assets or gold and traded in world markets outside U.S. jurisdiction. 5. Gold Stamps - the inaugural issue of gold stamps is in the final stages of production. Several remarkably unique features are designed into the stamps to make them very collectible and affordable. Sales are based on daily fix on the New York exchange market for gold bullion. 6. Programs - specific developments include: a) international spaceport b) international free trade zone c) fisheries d) maritime services e) mineral exploration and recovery f) satellite and telecommunications g) nuclear waste eradication h) financial, trust and fiduciary services For more information, see the web site of the Kingdom: http://www.enenkio.wakeisland.org Please direct specific inquiries for particulars to the USA Legation of the Kingdom by phone or fax, or mail to Post Office Box 8441, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA 96830.

hmmm...this I gotta check out

don't know where else to put this, say this... 30th anniversary of bobby kennedy's death, few days ago... too self-involved or whatever to even remember, that day... friday, i guess... anyway, i loved him... and i hope people think of him a little... remember a speech he gave, in indiana i think... right after mlk was killed... something he said... about "dedicating ourselves to what the greeks wrote about... to tame the savageness of man... and to make gentle the life of this world"... goddamn it... i mean... anyway... i loved him...

It was a bad time. A lot of good people were killed.

My name is Adam - I live in Austin, TX. About a year ago, I ran into Terry at Bruce Sterling's after the Computer Privacy Conference and logged onto the Spring the next day. I've been away from the Spring for close to 9 months. Just remembered it, and I'm back.

hi adam. welcome back!

Amen! Look around 'cause we've added some new conferences, topics, and posts since then...

I would like to invite regulars of this conference to visit the International Conflicts conference here on the Spring: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/InternationalConflicts/all This conference is dedicated to the disputes between groups all over the world, be that social, cultural, political or ethnical differences.

Nothing much changes politically - the more they do the more they stay the same. However, reading these antique posts about Wake Island being used for weapon disposal...we should be so lucky. They decided on Johnston Island just a few hundred miles upwind of Honolulu!

Toxic Waste to be stored at Wake Island ADVISORY May 10, 2000: Honolulu, USA -- The United States Embassy in Tokyo, Japan announces shipment of TOXIC WASTE to Wake Island for "temporary storage". Text of announcement:� The Following News Release was issued by the Defense Logistics Agency in Fort Belvoir, VA on May 5, 2000: PCB Shipment to Wake Island for Temporary Storage The Defense Logistics Agency announced today that a shipment of waste material containing very low levels of PCBs (polychlorinated biphenyls) will be moved no later than May 18, 2000, from Japan to Wake Island until final disposition is determined. Wake Island is a possession outside the customs territory of the United States in the central Pacific Ocean approximately 2,000 miles from Hawaii. The island is three square miles in size and is staffed by approximately 100 contractor personnel supporting Army activities. Wake Island is currently being used by the U.S. Army as a missile launch support facility. The waste PCBs to be shipped from Japan resulted from ongoing efforts by the U.S. military forces to make its installations PCB-free, worldwide. These materials were manufactured outside the United States and used by U.S. military forces in Japan. By law, PCBs cannot be imported into the customs territory of the United States for disposal. Currently, there are no appropriate disposal facilities in Japan.� The material consists of items such as transformers, transformer oil, circuit breakers and small parts. It was tested at U.S. military laboratories and found to contain less than 50 parts per million PCBs. The Toxic Substance Control Act does not regulate for storage materials with concentrations less than 50 parts per million PCBs. The items are properly packaged and containerized to ensure safe handling, movement and storage. The Department of Defense coordinated closely with the Departments of State, Interior and the Environmental Protection Agency. DOD is committed to ensuring this material is handled and disposed of in an environmentally sound manner. The Military Sealift Command will transport this material. For further information, please call the U.S. Embassy Press Office on Monday, May 8.� [ENDS] Link to document at US site: http://usembassy.state.gov/posts/ja1/wwwhp029.html EnenKio Response: The Kingdom of EnenKio continues to promote the rule of law.� Within the vast resources of the United States, solutions to disposal of these toxic chemicals must abound, yet DOD wants you to believe that not only are they committed to environmental security, when the fact is that no assessment of the potential effects on the environment has been done in this case, but that Wake Island is the only viable option for storage.�� For more than 150 years, the US government has conducted operations in the Pacific region in secret and without opposition.� This operation is no different.� The US has even (recently) declared Wake Island (its real name is Eneen-Kio Atoll) OUTSIDE the customs territory of the United States.� This convenient declaration circumvents federal law banning importation of PCBs, and in one swift thrust thus, removes oversight by Congress, the media and the American People and grants carte blanche to the war lords of the United States Army and DOD.�� With the law out of the way, what constraints shall be used to ensure accountability?� How long will these materials sit at Wake before they are completely forgotten?� Does anybody remember the other incidents of re-locating waste to Wake?� EnenKio deplores this brand of lawlessness, condones oversight by US Congress, federal and international agencies and challenges opposed nations to have the courage to speak out against these acts as fundamental violations of maritime and international law. Eneen-Kio Atoll is currently a topic of dispute between our countries.� The king's claim of ownership to the atoll was fully acknowledged by our sister Republic of the Marshall Islands in 1989, is perfected by the Kingdom of EnenKio on paper and in US courts � the US has never formally denied the claim � and yet, the United States exercises its legendary commitments to upholding human rights and protecting the environment by shipping toxic waste to King Remios' islands! Well, no doubt this toxic shipment will join the rest of the toxic wastes, chemical and biological pollutants, nuclear and weapons materials dumped and stored there with hardly a whimper from the ignoble flocks of birds and turtles.� If the stuff is so benign, why has it been for months shipped back and forth across the Pacific and shuffled from port to port where ample facilities existed for handling?� And who is getting rich in the process? The United States must be prevented from carrying out its insidious plans to hide its mistakes at Wake, else will be born the idiom, "Just Wake it!" end �

They are incinerating nuclear warheads at Johnston Island just 210 miles upwind of Honolulu, Hawaii. Wake is far away from everyone and everything - on a very finite globe. There is no easy answer to getting rid of the weapons of distruction we have created - what do you suggest we do with it?

" R H E T " Remios Hermios Eleemosynary Trust 'YOKWE YOK' and WELCOME! We extend you a warm traditional Marshallese salutation of friendship, goodwill and we have the greatest respect for your decision to visit the Internet site of the Remios Hermios Eleemosynary Trust today. We wish your stay is pleasant, informative, thought-provoking and when you depart, please accept our gratitude for stopping by and may you go in peace! Kommol tada. Iroijlaplap Remios Hermios On behalf of the people of the Northern Ratak Atolls of the Marshall Islands, distinguished Mayors of island community Councils of Local Government in the Ratak atolls and visitors to our tiny remote islands in the sun, we thank you for visiting us today. The following documents and links are provided for your information and reference. Introduction to RHET Documents � History of the Islands Maps & Descriptions � Ratak Development Plan Present Status of RHET Photos & Lifestyles � Links to Sites of Interest HOME Updated: 07/07/2000