(Kitchenmanager)- Out of curiosity, how do the "American World Police Force" and the idea of "One World Government" relate to one another?

It seems that the discussion on NATO has worn down. Would anyone care to discuss another topic? The UN or EU perhaps, or if you'd rather we can move on to american politics: campaing finance reform, IRS reform. I'm up for just about anything....

All in all though, NATO accomplished what it was intended to accomplish. And I don't think anyone would argue with the principle that a fully democratized Europe is in the best interests of the United States, as well as every NATO member nation. Must also consider the implications- mindful of their histories- of European nations fending for themselves, modern world or no...

History is an important point. Look how well the European nations were doing at fending for themselves before the U.S. got involved in WWII. Besides who's to say that at some point in the future, maybe not so distant future, that there won't be any other threats to Europe. Just because the Soviet Union no longer exists does not mean that the Europe or even the world is now entirely safe. Yes, the risk of an attack has been reduced, but not eliminated. Who knows what will happen in China in the future That nation has a huge potential for the future and there is no clear mechanism for replacing the current leaders when the time comes. This could pose a huge threat to the Western world, depending upon how much China has developed and what portion of its potential has been realized.

You make China out to be an evil empire w/ global goals. I think you are grasping at straws when you accuse a nation of a billion people that can hardly take care of itself of threatening the world. China's military is numerically superior to most others but it is hopelessly out of date and posses none of the means nessesary in order to project military power short of all-out Nuclear war which doesn't seem logical considering it's most favored nation trading status. Short of taking over 2 entire continent , China can't do a thing. Why stop with the Whole of Europe and Asia? Why not the entire world? I think that China will have enough trouble dealing with Hong Hong in the forseeable future. Please enlighten me to the scenario in which China would become a threat to the Western world.European nations fending for themselves holds as much threat in my estimation as Canada fending for itself. It seems foolhardy to back this institution (NATO) just because it has been around for so long. Nato should be seen for what it really is. It is a consortium of nations striving to fullfill U.S. policies. I don't think history should always be the guide to the future. If you get stuck looking behind you ne er see where you are going!

I'm not saying that China is a threat or has any intention of conquering the world. I was merely trying to illustrate that it may be rather short sighted to assume that there is no need for a multilateral military force, which is what NATO is. I did not mean to imply that NATO's military force is comprable to that of a nation-state's because you are right it is not. But it is the only real multilateral force in existance today which is an important factor to consider.

What's wrong with a consortium of nations striving to fulfill U.S. policies? Especially when those policies coincide with the interests of the nations involved? The United States leadership of Nato has hardly doomed the other western nations to pauper status- these nations have by and large thrived these fifty years, in large part due to to that leadership, and to the protection it afforded. The disintegration of the Warsaw Pact necessitates only a redefinition of NATO- does not the western political s here still face perils (from within and without)? Doesn't it make good sense to align ourselves to these nations- which share our basic political and cultural instincts, at least to a degree- and to lead them? And comparing the volatility of Europe with that of Canada is patently naive (to be kind)- while I agree that history should not alway dictate our behavior (the earth, like Jefferson said, does indeed belong to the living), the old saw is basically true: to disregard history is to doom one's self t it's repetiton. History is littered with the failures of those that didn't believe it so. And it is precisely the threat represented by nations like China (though there is no other nation quite like it) which makes NATO so essential. We don't know what the future of that nation portends, yet it's mammoth need, alone, suggests a possible threat in the future to the nations around it, at the very least. Certainly, the astute guess would have to include political unrest in China's near future, and in a nuclear age the ramifications suggested by that probability must be gravely weighed (most fav red nations status, notwithstanding).

Strange (or funny) to read this discussion. At "beeing wired - beeing human" I was told to have a look at spring. The NATO and European politics page is really astonishing for a citizen that is not member of the U.S. nor the NATO nor even the U.N. Still I'm european, sorry to say I'm swiss. But the swiss role (in history or politics) doesn't seem to be the topic here (btw michael rubi sounds quite familiar, i.e. swiss to me). One question pmnh: What is U.S. policies? A consortium of nations striving to fulfill� What the hell: To me it's all the same - business. One question to ledfords: What is democracy to the countries in eastern europe, and what has it to do with the NATO? Stable, fair, free, peaceful? What the hell: To me it's all the same � business! If you go back in history, you cannot stop at WWII. You have to go back further - 1914, 1848, 1789, 1776. What is that system, called capitalism or free market or even democracy based on? Is it not based on the will of some people doing their own thing, looking for their happiness� Smith, Jefferson, Locke, Hobbes wrote down things that were picked up by people who became rich in the industrial revolution without having any political power. To change that, they sticked together with the mob and created a system, we're still working with. It a little short-cutted, I know, but still: What the hell, to me it's all - business! looking forward to interesting discussions.

I'm not english enough to understand: hardball. To riette's question: What's a majority, what's Swiss (shall we create a swiss topic?) Let me say this: In the early 19th century (I don't go back further, yet), when Napoleon took over Europe (and some of my relatives died fitghting the french), my ancient was soldier and fell in love with a girl in Emmental. They made love, she had a Baby, and my ancient's father forced him to merry this girl. Their child couldn't stay in the poor family and was lend out to a rich farmer in the Emmental. Though he grwe up and made his way: Got married and had children. Among them: My grandfather who was t eated bad in school because he was the son of a suchcalled "Verdingbub" i.e. lended-child. That made my gramndfather angry - he became a socialist and a techer. He was on a black list of the many Nazis in Switzerland during WWII, but he made his way like my father and me. That's one difference. The other: (shall I really tell you this story�) When the roman slaves (Spartacus) fighted the masters, one african slave was sent to the alps to build a road over the Grimsel-Pass. Still he was renitent and was sent to a alp at the Lake of Brienz (Planalp) where he had prepare rocks for the road-making. It was in summer, and there was a farm girl looking for the cows on that alp. They fell in love and she became pregnant. In autum, when they (still) normaly bring down the cows to the valley, she didn't dare to go down. She stayed up their and got her baby. In spring, a big avelanche smahed the alp-house with the mother and the baby down to the valley. All that left was a cradle swimming on the lake of Brienz. Inside was a byby with black curled hairs and they would give him the name Aplanalp. That's my grandmother's name. More in a minute.

So your name is Peter. I think I can just about handle that - reminds me of the Heidi stories my grandfather told me as a kid. First of all I must confess that I know VERY LITTLE about politics, or indeed of the history of Switzerland - even though I've been here for almost five years now. So when I express and opinion you must know that it only comes from the bit of experience I've had here, not necessarily written facts, and my opinions might be misguided. Your story is very interesting. Okay, so your grandfather was a Verdingbub. How do you mean he was treated badly? What precisely did they have against his being a lent child? I've not really heard about this. Was it the Ayrian thing, or just the normal Swiss attitude? (I can never tell.) And so then he became a socialist. Are you a socialist? I didn't know they had those here. How comforting. But tell me the good stuff about Switzerland, Peter. You're right: we SHOULD open a topic. Switzerland is not exactly part of the EU, is it?!? And come to the other conferences as well, will you? Fun conferences here are Philosophy, Food, News, Porch - oh, most of them. And of course Art, where I'm hostess. Will you come?

"More in a minute." Hey, that baby's still stranded in the avalanche! Can't wait to hear more. How interesting. "Hardball" is an American expression, it means throwing some tough questions out, which is one of the reasons why we love Riette so much. She's so refreshingly forthright.

You find me refreshing?!?! My husband says I'm a pain in the ar$e.

What is a minute in the web? I'm quite busy - using minutes for cildren, wife and friends. Summer's passing by and it's the week-end� Back in a minute. BTW: When I look out my window, I see the Jungfrau-mountain in the sunshine. It's still great, even after all those years and all those stories about switz�kids are calling me, have to go downstairs now. See ya yankees over there

A minute on the web can easily become an hour or two or three - especially when one suffers from insomnia. How many kids? I've got two - aged 2 and 3. Girls. And they're just gorgeous - when they're not fighting, that is. My husband took me up the Jungfrau (so to speak!!) 4 years ago for my twentieth birthday. It was stunning, and I had my first ever fondue on the top. Best birthday I've ever had!

��������������������EnenKio Would like to discuss One Billion Start Up cyber bank all traded Currencys or Gold. Facts = http://www.enenkio.org - contact mp@enenkio.org - � � 808-923-0476 fax/ph ---------------------------------------------- STOP dishonoring yourselves --- AMERCIA REMOVE IT OR PROVE IT ! www.enenkio.org -- A Nation The newest OFCs, e.g., Niue and the Marshall Islands, are now sprouting in remote areas of the world, such as the Pacific. Even more "remote" are mere figments of fertile imaginations such as the Dominion of Malchizedek (sic) or The Kingdom of Enenkio Atol (sic), both entirely fraudulent in intent and practice." [note: OFC = Offshore Financial Center] Response: This unprovoked attack upon His Majesty King Remios, Monarch of the Kingdom of EnenKio, the sovereign state of EnenKio and its noble citizenry by the U.S. Department of State is a reprehensible categorically false challenge of the sovereignty of the Kingdom of EnenKio. It is also unjustifiably inflammatory and amounts to an unqualified felonious defamation of the international reputation of His Majesty King Remios, the government of the Kingdom of EnenKio and organs thereof. The unmitigated audacity and arrogance of the United States to attempt to link the Kingdom of EnenKio with Internation l Crime, narcotics trafficking, money laundering, tax evasion, international drug cartels, terrorists, bank fraud or any other sort of criminal activity, without even one microscopic fragment of substantive evidence to corroborate such deliberately nefarious statements is reprehensible in the least. This public posting shall serve as constructive notice to the United States Government that any attempt to interfere in the business of His Majesty King Remios, Iroijlaplap of the Northern Ratak atolls of the Marshall Islands, or any acts, decisions, mandates, announcements or directives thereby, shall be met with definitive responses equal to the degrees of contravention. Furthermore, this matter will not be resolved until the President of the United States issues a formal apology to His Majesty King Remios, along with the government of the Kingdom of EnenKio, and the Congress of the United States initiates a thorough investigation into the abuses of power, subversion of natural rights and illegal occupation by the United States of the islands and seas of Eneen-Kio Atoll. Congressional representatives to Hawaii, the nearest State of the United States to Eneen-Kio Atoll, and those of other states, have repeatedly been advised of the foregoing atrocities and conditions and have failed to respond in kind. The United States is obligated as the self-assured trustee of Pacific Island States in Micronesia to respond to the charges of "ethnic cleansing" and her responsibility to EnenKio is no less. For further information and links to documents, see: EnenKio Documents http://www.state.gov/www/global/narcotics_law/1998_narc_report/ml_intro.html http://www.state.gov/www/global/narcotics_law/1998_narc_report/index.html March 16, 1999: ��www.enenkio.org 808 923-0476 fax/ph Forward Please ! State of Art computer, Bankers and Wireless World wide We have every thing you ever wanted. Robert Moore, Minister Plenipotentiary, Kingdom of EnenKio Foreign Trade Mission DO-MO-CO Manager, Remios Hermios Eleemosynary Trust, Majuro, Marshall Islands http://www.enenkio.org

Someone forgot to take their medicine this morning.

Wow, a Plenipotentiary!

A what?