The point of no return

"something has spoken to me in the night, burning the tapers of the waning year... something has spoken in the night, and told me i must die, i know not where... saying: to lose the earth you know, for greater knowing; to lose the life you have, for greater life; to lose the friends you loved, for greater loving; to find a land more kind than home, more large than earth- -whereupon the pillars of this earth are founded... towards which the concience of this world is tending- a wind is rising, and the rivers flow." (thomas wolfe) no. i don't think there is any way back... or any way to return... think it's just on to something else... the next thing, or whatever... and so better it is to be "web" than "rock"... though we really can't control that, can we? "we are what we are"... (paraphrasing popeye)...

dammit, I shore wish there was... no, actually, I just wish that I could fix my head... Ever wonder what the point of remembering is?

No, I know what the point of remembering is... so you have something to forget. did you nix the counseling idea and opt for 'exquisite pain' instead?

yessum... speaking of, ya'll resolving conflicts better up there?

not necessarily... he's just been out o town on businesss lately...

I find this a really scary topic. It can drive me nuts when I start thinking: tomorrow when I wake up, there will be no turning back today - it is forever gone. I find letting go of time, people, events very hard. I still cry myself to sleep about my first boyfriend in kindergarten. *ha-ha*

The point of no return turns into the desire to return, right? It's interesting how language plays the mind. To say to myself that something can't be because it's gone, is maybe a way to make sure it stays on. So if I want to have that feeling with so-and-so again, and I tell myself that that feeling or experience or situation or person is gone, that it can only remain a memory, wouldn't that prevent me from directly experiencing the longing? It becomes silly to long for something that's gone. So I stop trying and move on to something else in my life. Doesn't that prevent me from directly experiencing the longing? Longing is a problem. It's good to get to the cause. If we push the longing away, we strengthen the cause. While the longing is happening, that's the time to see what it really is. What is it's nature? What brought it into being? Listen in for several minutes. Watch it carefully. What takes place? The longing becomes the real. It's in the present, very alive. Not a memory yet. It's important to understand why the longing is....what's really going on there. If we feel we truly don't know, that's the perfect place to start, because then we can begin to find out with fresh curiosity.....we can enter into what's behind the longing.....we can get into contact with it....feel our way in....sense what's there. Because the longing is what's happening, we are in touch with our self, our life.....we're learning.....if we keep it simple and direct and near.

Hello, Mr. Leplep le Plep. Are you new here? If you are, then, hi. My name is Ri�tte. You are right. Longing can be a problem. And it can be unpleasant at times as well. Very much experiencing that at the moment - not even trying to deny that. A sense of longing for old friends, sense of longing for my home, the friends I used to know there, and know still, but with whom I can't be, because my home is on another continent altogether. Just that time of the year I suppose. How I'd love to be there right now, sitting in the warm African sun by the beach, painting the reflections and co ours while listening to the stillness , or walking through the loud, lively streets full of laughter, or browsing through the craft markets with a good friend, oh, just that seven o'clock feeling at night with the sun setting in warm vivid oranges and yellows and pinks, having a beer in my favourite caf� with my favourite people - that's when I LONG. And when that happens it strikes me just how FINAL the decisions we continually make for our lives are. You can't always just try things out first. Somet mes you have to say a defenite yes or no, and it changes absolutely everything. It frightens me that no matter how I long, it is and will remain a memory, nothing more. I might experience the old feelings for the few short weeks I spend down there every year, but it will always remain a luxury, something out of the ordinary in my all too ordinary existence, and when I'm there I constantly have this nagging feeling, this dreading of returning to the life I have chosen to live. Not because it is a horrib e and unhappy life - it is just so very far away. But that's the thing about longing, isn't it? It goes on for LONG. And sometimes forever.

sometimes...

Do you long for something?

depends upon how depressed I is

actually, as has been pointed out to me recently, not sure if it's depression or self-pity...oh, well, something to think about at least...

You don't strike me as either. Just a bit frustrated perhaps. But then again, I'm not a particularly good judge of character, so I'm probably in no position to give that opinion.

i'm not sure if there's a difference. depression and self-pity go hand in hand. and it's not a good combination.

well, they don't, technically, medicate self-pity...

and I'm sure that one can pity oneself without being clinically depressed...

I don't think depression and self-pity necessarily go hand in hand. I usually start hating myself when I get depressed. And I pity myself when I'm tired or feeling hurt. Well, it's probably different for different people. Main thing is to keep fighting.

I don't agree that 'longing' is a problem. To long for something certainly implies that 'something' is missing but longing also implies that thought and want and caring and desire abound in the longing individual. To actually long for something (or someone) isn't painful. When longing becomes overwhelming, I think the verb then changes to pining, wallowing or desiring in utter desperation... and desperation can certainly be a painful problem. When I finally arrive with something, someone or somewhere, the preceeding longing makes the arrival so much sweeter. ... depression and self-pity can be world's apart or siamese twins...

You make sense today, Stacey! I'll remember that bit about the longing - sounds so positive. That's what the spring is so good for - there are always new perspectives to be seen and new ideas to be considered. I love it.

<You make sense today, Stacey! as opposed to when she doesn't?

I think you better find some cover, Mike.

!BOOH! Did that frighten him enough?

actually I took it as... I made sense to Riette yesterday and some days.

I don't. (sorry 'bout the breakup there... lost my UNIX connection

Yeah, you made good sense yesterday, and you have made good sense often in the past . . .it's just that sometimes you . . . didn't!

we all have our 'moments'

ha-ha! You are lucky to have them more often than not.

always made sense to me..

None of this makes any sense to me...

not even nonsense?

Nonsense - now there's something we can ALL make! Hail nonsense!

didn't intend to confuse everyone by having a lucid moment... i'll be more careful next time!

You only confused those of us who have so few lucid moments ourselves.....

how's the finger today?

It happened today!! And the finger is not - it merely used to be.

you cut it off?????

almost It was one of these vegetable cutters that you work by hitting it and the blades chop down. Only the blades are so sharp, I didn't feel a thing - until Isa started screaming hysterically, and I finally spotted the bits of finger mixed with the green peppers. So now I have a ripped off toe nail, a broken arm and a savaged finger - feel like Mr. Bean. What a crappy day.

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! (puke, spew, vomit) sorry, Riette, that was truly a vivid visual.

wow, riette, sounds nasty. i hope you are feeling better soon!

Thanks, Ray. I feel pain this morning, but, hey, it's weekend. And that's great! How are you? ha-ha, Stacey! Yours was hilariously visual too!

Topic 18 of 30 [philosophy]: The point of no return i think i'm there. here.

Inevitably.

Question is where here is the here that I am, HERE???

No, over there, I belive!

Ah. Thank you for clarifying that, Riette.

My pleasure, sir! The point of no return is when you realize you musn't, but you do it anyway. That, by the way, is my favourite point in the world.

Mine too, Riette. Except that I define it a little differently. It's the point at which you lose the ability to change the outcome, and you just have to go along for the ride.

That sounds like fate though! Perhaps the point of no return is where fate begins.

Oh no, I did not mean fate. The best way to illustrate is with a big truck. When you start to slide, and the trailer passes 15 degrees from straight. That is the point of no return. You can try to get the truck straight again, but usually it won't happen until you get stopped. so you just kick back and enjoy the ride.

And thus let fate take over...

The truck's name is Fate? I know, alotta trucks can have the same name.

Maybe, I don't know. But I like the idea of it.

Good Choice!!

And we'll start our journey to Mexico at the point of no return in your fateful truck, and see where we end up!

Riette, I Like that attitude. I agree, let's go for it!!

All the way!

Now THAT attitude, Riette, I REALLY like.

I would never have guessed - never in a million YEARS! I am so sorry that I have to go now, but I must. But check your e-mail in a little while from now. Sweet dreams.

Riette, I'm sorry that you have to go now too. Sweet dreams back to you.

They were.

I'm Glad Riette. Now, what did you dream about?

Sasquatsch! I don't know how to write his name, but he was the big hairy guy in the 'Six Million Dollar Man'. He was really big, because you know how they always say that size doesn't matter, but in fact that's all women ever look at? So it had to be Sasquatsch. And he wasn't so hairy all over, but his chest was like PADDED with hair under his t-shirt - yeah, he wore a t-shirt!!! And the t-shirt looked just like a tuxedo - I had to get really close before I realized it was only a t-shirt. It was a v ry strange dream, but sort of sexy too - difficult to describe. I hope I don't sound too disturbed!

It sounds like a fairly detailed description to me , Riette, Just how close did you say that you got?

Let's put it this way: it was GOOD! ha-ha! I'm so embarrassed at dreaming such things!

Well, Riette, That was pretty close, I have to admit.

Don't you ever have dreams like that?

I try not to, Riette, because of what happens when I do.

William started this with the questions: Is it better to turn back when you see it? Can you know as you cross it? Is there really no way to return? Should there be a way back? As far as I can say, there never is a back, as every ahead is always a bit different. But the only thing, that's really a problem - in my opinion - is indecisiveness. Question, decide, act. Do not let circumstances paralyse you. It is better to plow ahead and be wrong and have to take a detour, or patch things up, or go down in full glory, than to be mired with not being able to choose and make your mind up and select the possibly best option. There are not only options, there are also windows of opportunities. Within these time frames, you can act, and your actions have certain probabilities to bring certain effects. As these windows close, success chances diminish, too. When it is closed, indecisiveness has decided for you, not you for yourself (admittedly, not acting is a decision, too, - I mean not only not acting, but also not even wanting to not-act.) You must never become a victim of circumstance like this. And if you have been proven wrong, try something else. Always try, never give up yourself. You may not get what you originally wanted, but you have better chances to get something than if you were passive and contemplative. I personally find trying things much more entertaining, than just dreaming about trying. I have to realise that some things, I can only dream about (like taking my boat to water...), because others are more urgent. So, I do one and dream about the other, ok. But I don't sit there, stare at the beached wale, and contemplate my back luck, and be drained of precious time...