~terry
Sun, Sep 14, 1997 (18:03)
seed
Tom Carr:
This last weekend I did Shambala Training Level 3.
Before I go on with this I will give a few details.
Shambala
training is a series of meditation weekends, very similar to a
Vipassana weekend. Shambala Training was started by Chogyam
Trungpa,
the famous Tibetan meditation teacher who drank himself to death.
Chogyam Trungpa's successor, Ursel Tendzin, was the guy who had
AIDS and
continued having unprotected sex with his meditation students
while
keeping the AIDS a secret.
I was connected with this organization years ago. It is
where I initially got experience in meditation. I once did a
one month
long meditation retreat at their center in Vermont.
I distanced myself from the group as I noticed the
dishonesty
around Trungpa's drinking, the attempt to explain it away as crazy
wisdom rather than alcoholism, and the general air of cultism
and the
dishonesty and ignorance connected with cultism. I continued to
do some meditation events with them though, because they were the
biggest and best organized Buddhist meditation group in Atlanta.
I ended my relationship with the group completely when the
truth about Ursel Tendzins activities came out. I felt incredible
disgust. The worst thing was the attempt of MANY members to
deny it truth about Ursel Tendzins activities came out. I felt
incredible
disgust. The worst thing was the attempt of MANY members to
deny it
or try to explain it away as some sort of spiritual message.
I did not practice with this group for years afterwards.
I made
connections with other Buddhist groups in Atlanta, and a
Vipassana retreat center in the mountains north of here. Trungpa's
group remained the biggest and best organized group in Atlanta.
A few
years ago I started dropping in occasionally for meditation
weekends.
Back to the present. This last weekend I did Shambala
Training
Level 3. I found it a wonderful experience. In my interview
with the
directory, I talked in detail about why I had originally left
the
group. She was very receptive. She said that the group had
matured and said she hoped I would give them another chance. In my
talks with her I saw signs of maturity, and signs of cultism.
In my
talks with the newer students I saw a pretty healthy attitude.
I am considering getting active in the group again,
but am
hesitant.
I want feed back from you wise people . . .
~terry
Sun, Sep 14, 1997 (18:05)
#1
Tom Carr:
Tue Jun 24 '97 (05:47) 39 lines
Thanks everyone for the very interesting discussion.
I'll give
a little more detail now.
This last weekend was the first time in about 8 months
that I
have sat for a whole weekend. There have been big positive
changes in
my life during that 8 month period, but I haven't been sitting much.
The first day of sitting was hard, but on the second day I
settled in
and there was some kind of wonderful stillness and opening.
As I wrote yesterday, from the conversations I had I
have the
impression that none of the newer members seen to have the cult
mentality, and the older members seem quiet and defensive about
it, and
probably have matured to some degree.
It is a great center, and the older members, quiet and
defensive about there cultishness, work hard to keep things working.
There is a certain energy in cultishness. The truth is that
none of
the healthier Buddhist groups around Atlanta have put as much
time
There is a certain energy in cultishness. The truth is that
none of
the healthier Buddhist groups around Atlanta have put as much
time
and energy into getting regular sitting going. I am a guilty as
anyone. I go to other peoples events, but have never tried to
put one
on myself, and haven't been that helpful with all the grunt work
that
goes into running a meditation center or a retreat.
So the positive experience of the weekend, plus the lack of
anyplace else very good to sit in Atlanta, plus my strong
attachment to the group from my experiences 10 years ago, lead
to some
confused feeling monday morning. That's when I wrote and posted the
stuff that started this topic. Driving to work I kept thinking
about
it, kept asking myself:
"Do I want to get active with those people again"
The answer finally came back loud and clear
"No way, that would be a step backward"
And that's where I am now. What I really need to do is
get to
work with some people and try to get something else going here.
There
is a Vipassana group that meets in peoples houses, and I could
try to
contribute to the revitalization of that group. Or I could
start my
own group here at my house, or I could do what I have been doing
for
years, which is practice here by myself, and drive up to Southern
Dharma, 4 hours north of here, for retreats.
~terry
Sun, Sep 14, 1997 (18:06)
#2
Tom Carr (tomcarr) Wed Jun 25 '97 (07:17) 50 lines
-> Tom - it's the teachings, not the teacher. It's *got* to be!!!
I agree. I enjoy Chogyam Trungpa's books no matter what his
life was like.
In this case though, the question is more about the
Sangha than
the teacher or teachings. I would be completely comfortable
practicing
meditation and studying a variety of Buddhist teachers,
including
Trungpa.
The problem is some basic neurosis that all the cult members
seem to have. I'll try to describe it.
There is arrogance. They seem to think they have found the
ultimate spiritual teacher on the planet. They act like they think
they are better than other people who haven't found this teacher.
Someone who has been doing their particular practice longer than a
newcomer to the Sangha just automatically assumes they are
superior in
wisdom and spiritual development.
There is ignorance. Ignorance in the sense that they ignore
all information which is in conflict with one central idea. The
idea
being that the Guru is absolutely perfect. Anything that
conflicts with
the idea of the Guru as absolutely perfect is ignored or
explained away.
There is dishonesty. It was amazing to watch the
attempts to
hide the facts about Trungpa and Ursel Tendzin. This dishonesty
permeates the whole Sangha. Personal problems are hidden rather
than
dealt with.
Lots of these people are pleasant and intelligent in other
ways, but the cultishness is such a drag that I don't want to invest
much emotional energy in forming relationships with them.
When I was more involved with the group, I always felt
sort of
lonely. Communication could only go so far and then I ran into
a
block where if I just told the truth about what I noticed was
going on,
I would be attacked or shunned.
~terry
Sun, Sep 14, 1997 (18:07)
#3
Tom Carr (tomcarr) Wed Aug 20 '97 (06:40) 19 lines
I have been reading a great book, "The Double Mirror, a
Skeptical Journey into Buddhist Tantra" by Stephen
Butterfield. Its
about his experience in Chogyam Trugpa's organization Vajradatu.
Butterfield gives a balanced view I think. He explains the
techniques well. Talks in detail about how they helped him. He
doesn't demonize anyone.
OTOH he does a great job in describing just what it
feels like
to know in the back of your mind that something is bullshit, but be
afraid to say anything.
As he describes things:
"I was never told the difference between confusion and
heresy
in so many words, but got the idea by the types of questions
that were
never asked...the audience laughs on cue, the staff members
patronize
you."
"In one question ... I was told by the head of the
program, in
front of everyone, that I had said enough ...the message was
unequivocal: shut up and take these teachings as we give them,
or go
someplace else". To his credit, after great inner struggles, he
went
someplace else.