SPOILERS to Current Firth Productions

Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 226 of 352: MarkG (MarkG) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (10:27) * 21 lines I am using this topic for The Secret Laughter of Women This is a fairly instant review, but objective (I hope), given my gender! SLOW is a colourful and touching film, focusing apparently on race, but more importantly about love and the goals of life. Widowed Nimi's son Sami lies to his friends that he has moved to a big house, where Matt Field spontaneously helps the deception and turns out to be the author of Sami's adventure hero Saracen ("Justice, with a body-count"). Matt subsequently courts Nimi, but is comprehensively rejected by her exiled Nigerian community, who are trying to wed Nimi to the new priest. Matt uses his wealth to help her realise her ambitions at work, but is visited by his open-marriage wife, who becomes jealous of the perceived bond. Both Matt and Nimi are forced to resolve their own aspirational conflicts, catalysed by Sami's misadventure on the eve of Nimi's arranged marriage. CF starts as a wealthy, carefree, amused figure - who slowly becomes aware that he too has needs. The difficulties for Nimi are tougher, with an ancient yet matriarchal culture shaming her to learn how to cook stew, talk in proverbs and find a husband to serve, while she tries to forgeher own way without fracturing her links to her community (and family). The film is strong on humorous moments, especially early on in the Church of the Anglican Ascension ("remember ... Satan is always portrayed with a white face"), and in the mansion where Matt abets Sami's fib. Later on, there are touching moments, and even an action scene and a post-coital scene. The colour is provided by Grasse, an almost irrelevantly French setting, and especially by the Nigerian Christian garb. The earthy women of the community joke about men, sex and clothes whilst trying to inculcate the ancient oppressive values into Nimi. CF is variously amusing, tender, wilful, confused and heroic, but appears to appreciate the Nigerian sensitivities before finally deciding to ride roughshod over them. I thought it was a charming film, and would be very popular in cinemas. Possibly it would need still more humour to play really well, and maybe a less formulaic denouement would help it to bemore earthed in reality. Overall well worth goofing off from work! As a review, I barely need to state that the above is all IMVHO. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 227 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (10:44) * 12 lines As a review, I barely need to state that the above is all IMVHO. Well done, Mark (for both the review and blowing off work to see a CF movie). *cue applause* maybe a less formulaic denouement Recent reviews point to this as the reason it wasn't picked up earlier by distributors. Regardless, it's great to see it out of the bank vault and on the screen. I hope UK audiences forgive its flaws. Later on, there are touching moments, and even an action scene and a post-coital scene. Ahem...I wouldn't mind a few spoilers here--perhaps after the LFF is over and Evelyn, Ann, etc. have seen it? Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 228 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (10:46) * 3 lines Oh, thank you, Mark. You have missed your calling. Film criticism beckons you. Far better than 99.9% of the reviews I've read at AICN site. So, how did our "plain-speaking" Evelyn react? Did she walk out saying, "This doesn't have a prayer" or "no wonder no one bought it"? ;-D Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 229 of 352: MarkG (MarkG) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (11:02) * 2 lines Re-reading my review, I realise that as usual I have become dry and pompous. Only fair to say that the film is lovely and funny, and I would recommend it without hesitation to any kind of audience. Definitely did not deserve to languish in a vault! Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 230 of 352: S B Robinson (SBRobinson) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (11:02) * 5 lines Wonderful review Mark! I'm so glad you were able to escape work for a few hours and see it. :) Later on, there are touching moments, and even an action scene and a post-coital scene. (Eileen)Ahem...I wouldn't mind a few spoilers here-- you and me both, Eileen *hee hee* ;D and can you fill us in on if there were any great close ups of his face Mark? Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 231 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (11:10) * 2 lines I have become dry and pompous Not at all!

Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 232 of 352: MarkG (MarkG) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (11:16) * 7 lines SB: can you fill us in on if there were any great close ups of his face Mark? Ah yes, just the sort of question I wasn't concentrating on. The answer is that there must have been, because there is so much of YDB in the film. Almost every scene features either Nia Long or himself (or both), and little of it from any kind of distance. I don't know what Evelyn or others thought yet, as I turned up seconds before the start and rushed off as soon as the credits rolled. I am confident that they will report this to be one of the most successful film releases yet from the Firthettes' point of view (i.e. focus, role, presentation of CF). If you can imagine Paul Ashworth with financial success in the bag, that's a pretty good start. His wife, BTW, describes a certain part of him as "Ever-Ready Eddie". What can this mean? Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 233 of 352: Moon Dreams (Moon) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (11:59) * 10 lines (Karen), Oh, thank you, Mark. You have missed your calling. Film criticism beckons you. Far better than 99.9% of the reviews I've read at AICN site. You and me both! Thank you Mark! Now we will be asking you opinion on many more films. :-D (Mark), His wife, BTW, describes a certain part of him as "Ever-Ready Eddie". What can this mean? LOL! We certainly want to hear much more on this from Evelyn and Ann. Now that SLOW is out, I do believe Colin has no more films in the vault. Which is more than can be said for Mr. Fiennes. ;-) I wonder if Livia attended the screening? Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 234 of 352: bethan (lizbeth54) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (12:13) * 1 lines Terrific review Mark! I second Karen's opinion....you have missed your calling! Thanks for bunking off! Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 235 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (13:09) * 2 lines Wow, how do I follow Mark's review except to say I second everything he has said and am very glad to hear it from the male perspective as someone in the audince said it w as a chick-flick, whatever that means. Lots of lovely close-ups of Colin, and I thought the chemistry and romance betwen Nimi and Matthew was very convincing, much more so than Ruth Gemmell and Colin in Fever Pitch (and I liked FP), although you knew they would end up together you really really wanted them to. One review I read said that the end was a bit contrived and to be honest I tend to agree, I felt the ending was rather rushed, I could have done with another 30mins. We had close-ups, love scenes, longin gazes and even a wet shirt!!! Evelyn's comment as I mentioned on topic #123 was that it wouldn't win any Oscars, except possible in Nigeria, but was a charming film. A must-see and a must-keep for a CF fan I am sure. What with MLSF there is so much to look forward to, oh and 3DOR. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 239 of 352: Lucie (alyeska) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (13:19) * 1 lines Thank you from me too Mark. I wonder how long we will have to wait to see it in the U.S. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 240 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (13:54) * 4 lines Ann, your excitement is palpable! Thus far SLOW sounds alot like MLSF--not a perfect film but enjoyable and lots of CF to boot. What with MLSF there is so much to look forward to, oh and 3DOR. Good things come to those who wait. With SLOW (of course, you'll have to see it again when it's released later this month), TOTS, Blackadder and possibly Don Q in addition to 3DOR, May will be here before you know it! Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 241 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (14:00) * 1 lines True very true, as Lizzie once said and talking of Lizzie, JE is definitely coming to Broadway with TRT. only hope that MLSF's opening in May doesn't clash with a trip to NY!!! but what a lovely problem. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 242 of 352: Heide (heide) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (16:56) * 1 lines I must rush off but had to check this sight. WOW!! I'm thrilled with both your posts, Mark and Ann, and can't wait to read the rest. I want to know how it ends!! Please, more details. I'll think of questions for tomorrow if no one else does first. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 243 of 352: Lynda Wilson (lyndaw) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (18:01) * 2 lines Thanks for the encouraging reviews, Mark and Ann. I hope everyone else who sees it tomorrow will post ASAP. Sounds like an enjoyable film. Loved both MLSF and FP and can't wait to see SLOW. I will be in London on Dec.4 and am keeping my fingers crossed that SLOW will be playing then. The thought of seeing this film in addition to ODB on stage is so exciting that I won't mind even if it rains every day we're there. What better way to spend a rainy afternoon than drooling over Matthew - although I don't thi k my DH or son would agree with me on that.

(copy continued) Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 244 of 352: Mary Murphy (Brown32) * Fri, Nov 12, 1999 (20:02) * 5 lines Thanks from here, Mark and Ann. I just KNOW we will never get to see it on this side of the pond, and, since I am well known as a non-flyer, I despair of ever finding out about "Ever Ready Eddie." Mark, may I post your review on my SLOW page? I can make it "anon" if you want, but it is so good, and would cheer those who will never get to see the film. Murph Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 245 of 352: Heide (heide) * Sat, Nov 13, 1999 (08:23) * 18 lines I don't want to spoil SLOW for anyone else who has a chance of seeing it in the next few weeks so just don't read the answers to the questions I'm going to post to Mark, Ann, and the others who have not yet weighed in. Sorry Bethan, Lynda - close your eyes. It will be a long wait before the video gets to these shores. How does the courtship between Matthew and Nimi come about? help her realise her ambitions at work Does Nimi get a job outside her restricted enclave? visited by his open-marriage wife So then we are not to find Matt's adultery distasteful.;-) I take it his wife (name?) doesn't always live with her husband and takes lovers. How is that conveyed? Echoing the others asking for more on the post coital and action! scenes. Ann, et al, I'm sure you'll be able to give us a clear description of his physical appearance. Hair? Any interesting attire? (shorts, swimming, formal, none?) not too serious. Paul Ashworth sort of but not as rumpled? Big question - Do Matthew and Nimi end up together? And, what was the audience response? Thanks! Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 246 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Sat, Nov 13, 1999 (13:40) * 8 lines Here are some of the answers to some of your questions Heide. I was concentrating so much on Colin that I really need to see it again to answer all your questions. Anyway, firstly yes Nimi and Matthew do end up together, and I would say that his is the most romantic role Colin has played in a long time. They are both so sweeet they were made for each other and although Matthew and his wife seemed fond of each other, it was a very open marriage and they both knew the rules and until Matthew met Nimi he was quite happy with things. Colin wore lots of loose fitting shirts and dark suits with tee shirts underneath, showed off his lovely long lean body beautifully. His hair was a reddish brown, , very near his natural colour I would think, and curly but not as unruly as Paul Ashworth. He looked great in everything he wore. Nimi designs gardens and Matthew hired her to re-design her garden, he had 115 acres? I think that is what he said. Her family were not happy with her working for a white man. I shall have to go again to take in the things I missed the first time around. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 247 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Sat, Nov 13, 1999 (13:41) * 1 lines Oh btw the audience response was pretty good, well very good seeing as most of them wereprobably Firth fans, they laughed in all the right places and applauded at the end. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 248 of 352: Heide (heide) * Sat, Nov 13, 1999 (16:46) * 7 lines I would say that his is the most romantic role Colin has played in a long time. Ummmmm...I knew I would like this film. How was the relationship portrayed between Sami and Matthew? Pals? Father-son? I'm afraid I will pester you all for details until I can see the whole filmin my mind...which may be the only place I will see it for months. BTW, today is Caroline Goodall's 40th birthday. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 249 of 352: Heide (heide) * Sun, Nov 14, 1999 (14:29) * 1 lines And another thing...you mentioned wet shirt. Ann, don't leave us hanging. ;-) Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 250 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Sun, Nov 14, 1999 (15:29) * 2 lines Well - and this is where I agree with the reviewers the ending was rather contrived and rushed. The day before Nimi's marriage to the Reverend, Sammy goes missing and Nimi seeks Matthew's help just as he is about to leave with his wife. Sammy meanwhile has gone off on an adventure to Matthew's boat, climbs in and the boat tips over and is taken out to sea or to the rocks. Colin rushes off to Nimi' side say she needs me and I need her, realises where Sammi could be, dives in fully clothed and rescues Samm from the overturned boat. Hence wet shirt!! Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 251 of 352: Lizza J (Lizza) * Sun, Nov 14, 1999 (16:10) * 7 lines Great to read your reviews Mark and Ann, you have given us a really accuratepicture of it, that I anm sure we would enjoy it. It makes me even sadder that it has not been picked to tour the provinces in the LFF on tour later this month. Ho HUM! I love your description of his hair Ann! Mark are you coming to 3DOR with us?

(copy continued) Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 252 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Sun, Nov 14, 1999 (16:26) * 1 lines Lizza, do you know it is going on General release on the 26th . BTW thanks for your very thorough answers on #123 Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 253 of 352: Lizza J (Lizza) * Sun, Nov 14, 1999 (16:59) * 5 lines Of course Ann, thanks for nudging my brain there! Is that general release though or will it be very limited, eg arthouse type venues? Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 254 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Sun, Nov 14, 1999 (17:08) * 3 lines Didn't Bethan post something about how SLOW was going to be in "normal" theaters? I've just spoken to Evelyn a little while ago. She and Aishling and Tineke are boiling mad after the Q&A at the Ritzy! But I'll let them relate what was said. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 255 of 352: bethan (lizbeth54) * Sun, Nov 14, 1999 (17:29) * 3 lines Don't leave us in the lurch too long over the Q&A session, please, or my imagination will work overtime. Hostile questions? Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 256 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Sun, Nov 14, 1999 (18:05) * 1 lines Oh before I go off to bed I forgot to mention that Colin spoke three sentences in French, oh la la. Is there no end to this man's talents. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 257 of 352: Heide (heide) * Sun, Nov 14, 1999 (19:09) * 5 lines Fr..Fr..Fr..French? Be still my heart. Ending does sound contrived but hey..they can't all be award winners. I'll let you sleep, Ann, but come back tomorrow. We have other questions. Thanks so much for bearing the brunt of this. I hope Evelyn can share your load soon. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 258 of 352: Cymbeline (baine) * Sun, Nov 14, 1999 (20:39) * 1 lines And 'ow is ees accent? Does he make beautiful music? Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 259 of 352: MarkG (MarkG) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (01:58) * 7 lines Murph, of course you can post my "review" on your site. Such flattery! (Heide) How does the courtship between Matthew and Nimi come about? After Sami gets delivered to CF's big house and CF plays along with his pretence that he lives there, CF has to return Sami to his mother. His first line about Nia Long is "Why did you tell me she wasn't beautiful?" and so begins his pursuit, which is never convincingly rebuffed. (Lizza) Mark are you coming to 3DOR with us? I have tickets. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 260 of 352: Tineke (Tineke) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (03:21) * 1 lines Help!! What's this Yapp error? It took me an hour to write down all my comments, and when I wanted to post them, I got this yapp error and lost everything! Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 261 of 352: Tineke (Tineke) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (03:36) * 21 lines I guess I'll have to start all over again. First of all, Ann and Mark, I enjoyed reading your reviews of SLOW. (Ann) He looked great in everything he wore. Except for that awful bathrobe! You forgot to mention the silly but cute sneakers he's wearing in this film;-) There are a lot of P&P scenes in this film; looking through window in the above mentioned bathrobe, getting wet... Fr..Fr..Fr..French? Be still my heart. He says " Qu'est-ce que vous voulez? Comment �tes-vous rentr�?" (What do you want? How did you get in?) He speaks rather fluent, but obviously with a slight English accent. So then we are not to find Matt's adultery distasteful.;-) I take it his wife (name?) doesn't always live with her husband and takes lovers. How is that conveyed? They both live in London. Matt's in the South of France to get some rest (apparently after having had a heart attack. But this is not clear in the film. We only know because we read the production notes). Matt keeps on postponing his trip back home (another P&P parallel). We see his wife talking over the phone with Matt, with another man lying next to her in bed. How was the relationship portrayed between Sami and Matthew? Pals? Father-son? Sammy's favourite hero is Saracin, a character invented by Matt. Sammy keeps on playing theseSaracin games, which gets him into trouble at times. So when Sammy meets Matt, his hero, he can't believe his luck! Of course, Sammy and Matt get along really well. Matt plays games with him, has to answer lots of Sammy's questions about life and sex...

copy continued Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 262 of 352: Tineke (Tineke) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (03:46) * 7 lines And now, the Q&A at the Ritzy. Both the director Peter Schwabach and the producer/writer Misan Sagay were there. They were talking about all the problems they had financing the film. The main production company, Handmade Films, went bankrupt around the time they started shooting the film. This obviously lead to questions about whether this forced them to cut the film more than they would have like, whether they had to leave out important scenes. Ms Sagay replied that they were overall happy with the film, but had a hard time convincing the people not to leave out too many Nigerian scenes. She said "imagine, they almost wanted to make a film about Colin Firth!" and laughed. She wanted to make a Nigerian film and would have preferred leaving out the Colin scenes rather than the parts with the Nigerian women. And she kept on talking how they were so fortunate to get such a great cast (clearly referring to all the Nigerian woman and not Colin). Then she thought she'd impress us by saying that Jeremy Irons was going to play the part of Matt nd had thought of Whitney Houston as Nimi. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 263 of 352: aishling (aishling) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (03:46) * 15 lines I haven't time at the moment to catch up on the posts so apologies in advance for any repeats. Although no master piece, this is a very enjoyable and comical film and CF looks gorgeous throughout. The film is set in Grasse, South of France and the location is colourful and beautiful as is the Nigerian native dress. The conversations between Matthew and Sami are very funny with Matthew having some very witty lines. Matthew is a bit of a cad and has had numerous affairs although he admits to being very happily married. The film runs for approx 40 mins before anyone knows he is married. For those worried about his infidelity, fear not. You just cannot take this film seriously. This is an open marriage with Jenny having her flings too and this is how their marriage works. One of my favourite secnes is when Matthew and Jenny are dancing together and Matthew is acting like a clown and being very laddish and extremely enjoying himself. He is also genuinely pleased to seeJenny when she makes a surprise visit. Poor CF get all wet again when he goes underwater fully clothed. He also gets to look at Nimi in his garden from an upstairs window wearing his bath robe. There was a lot of laughter throughout the film from both audiences and applause at the end. Tickets for Saturday night were sold out but due to rail works on the underground, there were no trains going to Brixton station. I won't go into the state Evelyn, Tineke and I got into. Suffice to say we made it. To whet your appetite, the Director and Writer attended on Saturday evening and held a question and answer session at the end of the screening. My cue to say "go to it Evelyn", who will be winging her way home today. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 265 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (04:00) * 1 lines Tineke, I don't know if you know this but he was actually protesting outside the Houses of Parliament about the time Slow was being shown on Friday. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 266 of 352: MarkG (MarkG) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (04:30) * 16 lines A few more spoiler thoughts, in no order: Americans get a pretty bad press in the film; the American characters I can remember are: Sami's disdainful Anglophone schoolfriends; Caroline Goodall's gormless lover, who she brings on her visit to Grasse; Matt's agent, who thinks the worst of his client and offers to sort out any mess that Matt has made. Would this affect an American distributor, I wonder? It's news to me that Matt is recovering from a heart attack (I hadn't read production notes). I was assuming he was lying low for a while after ending a liaison with a politician's wife (as the priest read out from the paper). I was going to say CG didn't look 40, but then I remembered when the film was made. She wouldn't! Tineke, are you honestly saying his French had only a "slight English accent"? I'm going to start daring to speak French again if that's true. I thought he sounded as hopeless as most of us (deliberately). On Matt's relationship with Sami, he was like the grown-up pal who dares to tell the kid the truth for the first time. "You mean all grown-ups have sex? Even the married ones?" "Especially the married ones" Re the ending: turning up with a lorryload of tomatoes is a typical Hollywood Quixotic gesture (imagine Richard Gere in Pretty Woman, or whoever that is who turns up with a yacht on a Manhattan street, or Billy Crystal bringing back a calf in City Slickers, or pretty much any romantic film of the past twenty years). Yeah, don't bust my chops, City Slickers isn't romantic, but you know what I mean. My point is it's a fairly lame bit of writing, and I sensed that CF had the decency to look embarrassed. (An it flaunted his wealth unnecessarily). What was the title about? All the Nigerian women laughed a lot together, and Nimi laughed in the "post-coital" scene, but the laughter must have been too secret for me to notice any deep meaning. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 267 of 352: Moon Dreams (Moon) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (07:23) * 5 lines Good point about the title, Mark. What do you think, Ann, Tineke, Aishling and Evelyn? Tineke, thanks for posting the french. I would love to hear it. ;-) Re: Q&A, it seems that they are angry with Colin and this is their way of attacking him. Maybe he refused to do any publicity for the film, esp. now that it will get a theatre release. Someone had said that he was not happy with the film. Does anyone know the exact comment? Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 268 of 352: aishling (aishling) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (08:21) * 8 lines Someone had said that he was not happy with the film. Does anyone know the exact comment? Evelyn and I were speaking to two ladies from FoF at the Friday SLOW screening. They had seen 3DOR the evening before and told him that they had timed their visit to London for the play and SLOW. Apparently he said to them "ah, that's too bad"

(copy continued) Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 269 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (09:49) * 21 lines Thanks, thanks, thanks for the additional info, Ann, Mark, Tineke, Aishling and (in abstentia) Evelyn! (Aishling) with Matthew having some very witty lines. Do you (any of you who saw it) remember them? Also, Nimi laughed in the "post-coital" scene can you tell us more about this scene? How about the 'action' scenes (besides the wet shirt water rescue scene)? (Mark) Americans get a pretty bad press in the film...Would this affect an American distributor, I wonder? That and the fact the film has received so-so reviews (not original, contrived ending, etc.). or whoever that is who turns up with a yacht on a Manhattan street Michael Douglas in Romancing the Stone. But your point is taken ;-) (Tineke) Ms Sagay replied that they were overall happy with the film, but had a hard time convincing the people not to leave out too many Nigerian scenes Perhaps those were all the scenes with the women secretly laughing :-P She said "imagine, they almost wanted to make a film about Colin Firth!" Certainly not at his insistence. Unless ODB has a vain, pompous side (naaah). Ms. Sagay's lips must have been puckered from those sour grapes. Even with Colin Firth the film came *this close* to bank vault oblivion. Jeremy Irons and Whitney Houston, huh? IMO Whitney's salary alone would have eclipsed the entire budget for this movie. (Aishling) "ah, that's too bad" It sounds like there's no love lost over this production. Topic 121 of 125 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 270 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (09:58) * 29 lines Wow!! All the comments. Thank you, Mark, Tineke and Aishling. Knew you wouldn't wait toolong to get back in here. Even before any comments re: SLOW, I must know: Caroline Goodall's gormless lover What is this lover missing? I shudder to think. ;-D And Tineke, if you're using IE, always "Copy" your response before submitting, just in case you need to redo it. Now back to our subject at hand... Good point about the title. What is this "secret laughter of women"? If none of you can answer that, it would seem the filmmakers did not succeed with their message. (Tineke) silly but cute sneakers he's wearing in this film;-) Ooh, someone is looking at his feet! ;-D (Aishling) Matthew is a bit of a cad and has had numerous affairs...The film runs for approx 40 mins before anyone knows he is married. I did get the impression from all I've read that he actively pursues Nimi...that he's quite the hound. :) (Tineke) She didn't seem to like Colin very much. No wonder he didn't show up at the screening! When I spoke to the guy at Optimum, he said the Director had been in contact with Colin. Yeah, I wouldn't leave it up to Misan to entice Colin into attending. (Mark) Americans get a pretty bad press in the film...Would this affect an American distributor, I wonder? Interesting point. We can do it to ourselves, but no one likes it when others do it. However, it seems that point alone wouldn't be the reason why it hasn't found an American distributor. I get the impression that it's a fairly average film. Not even one that would get a first-time writer and director noticed. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 271 of 352: aishling (aishling) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (10:38) * 17 lines Karen: I did get the impression from all I've read that he actively pursues Nimi...that he's quite the hound. :) Absolutely. She is just another conquest until the end of the film. He tells her he is not ready for love and that she must know the boundaries!!!! What is this lover missing? I shudder to think. Speech for a start. Karen, I think you are in for a very entertaining meeting later today. Eileen: It sounds like there's no love lost over this production. I don't think so. Ms Sagay gave no credit to CF at all and he carried the film. She did say that what they could afford to pay Whitney Houston wouldn't pay for her hairdresser. I thought it very bad taste to say they wanted Jeremy Irons and that he wanted the part but by the time they were ready for filming, he was committed elsewhere. I like JI but he couldn't se him in this part. Anyway I am not going to say anymore about her. I am not sure that I have fathomed out the meaning of the title either. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 272 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (10:55) * 8 lines (Aishling) I think you are in for a very entertaining meeting later today. I know I will. I called her up Sunday night just after she came in from seeing Mansfield Park and heard lots and lots. Oooohhhh, my phone bill!! :-o I thought it very bad taste to say they wanted Jeremy Irons and that he wanted the part but by the time they were ready for filming, he was committed elsewhere. Extremely bad taste. However, from that, I can only conclude that something happened post-production between the two (Ms. Sagay and CF). I've heard lots of directors, writers, etc., discuss their films and no one talks about having wanted someone else to play a role. It's as if you're apologizing for your film and that, if so & so were in it (as I wanted) it would have been better. Definitely think that Colin's not appearing also ruffled her fine feathers. And thank you in advance, Aishling, for prowling through the dustbins on my behalf. :-D

(copy continued Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 273 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (11:17) * 2 lines (Karen) However, from that, I can only conclude that something happened post-production between the two (Ms. Sagay and CF). So do I (that's what I meant by my 'no love lost' comment, Aishling). As for Sagay's bad taste in mentioning her desired cast, perhaps that was a rookie mistake (I'm going out a limb for her when she doesn't deserve it). Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 274 of 352: Elena (Elena) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (11:20) * 7 lines (Aishling) I thought it very bad taste to say they wanted Jeremy Irons and that he wanted the part but by the time they were ready for filming, he was committed elsewhere Oh, that Ms. Sagay appears to be a real bitch! I�m so glad that Colin didn�t bother to show up. On the other hand, we don�t know what has happened between them and it�s obvious that she is really deeply pissed off for some reason...... I only wonder what could have caused it. This is probably the first time ever that I hear someone being so very displeased with him. Thanks for all your comments Aishling, very interesting! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 275 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (13:18) * 2 lines Aishling and Tineke, what question lead to this unnecessary comment from Ms. Sagay, or did she offer it off her own bat so to speak. There can't have been many Firth fans there on Saturday or else I am sure there would have been a riot, I would have been furious to think that she had something like that in such a public place. Poor Colin and it is such a lovely film, and it is so romantic and the romance so convincing im my opinion anyway, but this has soured it for me, I shall always think that Colin for one reason or another did not like it which makes the film less than convincing. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 276 of 352: bethan (lizbeth54) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (17:46) * 4 lines Ann, I'm rather dubious as to whether CF actually said anything derogatory about SLOW. I think that possibly he was preoccupied and misheard what was said to him. His response could be interpreted to refer to almost anything. SLOW may not be "Citizen Kane", but neither is it "Mad Cows"! As to Ms Sagaye. I'm geniuinely puzzled by her remarks. CF may not be a man without fault, but he seems to have an unblemished record of good working relationships, often leading to continuing friendships. Perhaps she never got over the disappointment of not getting J. Irons as leading man!! Or does she blame CF for the chequered history of SLOW's release. In all honesty, I don't think he could be expected to attend the Q&A, ...he'd had a fairly punishing day with two performances. And he will promote (FP IL, 3DOR) All in all, Ms Sagaye strikes me as highly unprofessional! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 277 of 352: bethan (lizbeth54) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (17:58) * 3 lines Did the director concur with the producer's comments? What was his attitude to CF? And why did the reference to a "good cast" apparently exclude CF? It will be interesting to see if CF does promote SLOW... promotional interview(s) often appear the weekend before release, so there's still time. Actually, Ms Sagay doesn't need CF to publicise SLOW.....as a first-time writer/producer, and a black female, she would attract attention in her own right. The BFI recently produced a report on under-representation of black minorities in film production. the media would be interested in this sort of breakthrough, especially if SLOW gets a mainstream release. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 278 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (18:25) * 2 lines Bethan, I am not quite sure what your first paragraph means, I don't think I said Colin said anything derogatory about SLOPW did I. Aishling did say that someone who had attended 3DOR spoke to him and said they had come to see SLOW and he said "Oh Dear" or something like that, is that what you mean? and was Colin really excluded from the "good cast" comment, this is too much. Even if I were not a Colin Firth fan I would say that he was the best thing in the film and I am sure J.I could not have done bette or W.H. better than Nia Long. Her dialogue certainly left much to be desired not Colin's acting!! Bethan you will love SLOW, I definitely did and despite everything I shall certainly be buying the video. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 279 of 352: Heide (heide) * Mon, Nov 15, 1999 (19:19) * 5 lines Regarding Ms. Sagay, is it possible she did not mean to deride Colin at all but was miffed that her film did not focus on the story she wrote - the relationships among this matriarchal society. By saying she'd rather his scenes were cut, could she mean she didn't want the love angle to be as important as the story of the women? There must have been some reason for this incomprehensible film title. It sounds as if she lost control of her own project - a bitter pill to swallow. Curious...if Nimi is just another conquest, do we see Matthew with other women as well? Excluding his wife though I'd like to know more about that relationship too. Thank you ladies, and Mark, for satisfying our curious natures so well. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 280 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (02:16) * 3 lines I can understand that she may have been a bit miffed at as you say Heide, losing control of her own project but that is no reason to make it sound that if she had gotten Jeremy Irons the film would have been better. (gr?) The camera did focus on Colin quite a lot and he is in most scenes, perhaps that is what she means by "they wanted to make a film of Colin Firth." Heide, we did not see Matthew with other woman and actually I hadn't realised he was a womanizer.

(copy continued) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 281 of 352: MarkG (MarkG) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (02:57) * 6 lines Although we didn't see Matthew with other women, we had the scurrilous tittle-tattle read out from the papaer by the priest, and we had his agent say to him "I can come down there and sort out the mess - you know I've done that before for you." And he was happy(ish) in his open marriage. I think Jenny implied to Nimi that she was just another girl (but she would). None of that is conclusive, I admit. Is it possible they made Ms Sagay change the ending? Maybe Nimi originally dumped both suitors and went off on her own (secretly laughing). And if Jeremy Irons had played Matthew, it would have been a very different film. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 282 of 352: Elena (Elena) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (06:03) * 4 lines (Mark)And if Jeremy Irons had played Matthew, it would have been a very different film You must be right, Mark. Haven�t seen SLOW but personally I can�t stand Jeremy Irons and the thought of someone wanting him somewhere instead of Colin looks insane and a sacrilege! I�ve felt disgusted with JIat least since The French Lieutenant�s Woman or what was that dumb movie (sorry JI fans, just my humble opinion :-) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 283 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (07:47) * 4 lines I've read through the production notes, which emphasize the collegiality of the entire project: how Sagay basically picked out Schwabach and how they worked closely together. Lots of complimentry things about Colin in the notes, but then again, these were written by PR people, who wouldn't make such a mistake. BTW, Evelyn said the comment was made in response to a question about whether Sagay had fulfilled her vision (or some such baloney). Not getting the cast of her dreams is something she should have ept to herself. I'll let Evelyn elaborate later today when she gets home and online. Nothing in the notes that helps with the title, but I like your take, Mark. Think I'll ask a woman I know, who is married to a Nigerian, about the title. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 284 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (10:12) * 10 lines (Bethan) I'm rather dubious as to whether CF actually said anything derogatory about SLOW. I think that possibly he was preoccupied and misheard what was said to him. I know what you mean, Bethan; I had the same reaction. Re: Sagay's comments--again, it sounds to me that her comment breached the unwritten rules of professional etiquette (never diss your cast, directly or indirectly). She's new at this, right? She answered the question honestly but failed to see the impact. Possibly we're the only ones offended by her remarks, though. (Mark) Maybe Nimi originally dumped both suitors and went off on her own (secretly laughing). Hee hee! Back to the particulars... How do Matthew and Nimi end up *ahem* in bed? What were some of Matthew's funniest lines (in context)? And what about these action sequences? Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 285 of 352: MarkG (MarkG) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (10:27) * 9 lines Eileen How do Matthew and Nimi end up *ahem* in bed? What were some of Matthew's funniest lines (in context)? And what about these action sequences? We've heard previously that in Nimi's culture, first names have a mystical property and their use can be an intimate act. "Like making love?" asks Jenny's gormless lover. "Yes". So when Matthew and Nimi end up alone and indoors, he tells her to say his name (before she called him Mr Field, and he called her Mrs da Silva, as he didn't know her first name), so that once she does, he unwraps the bottom of her outfit... Cut to post-coital scene. Sounds awful written down, but was well acted. The action sequence was the above-mentioned scene where Sammy nearly drowns on the rickety wrecked speedboat which falls into the sea. Colin performs an underwater rescue, kicking in the window to pull Sammy out, and handing up to his anxious mother. Funny lines - I will try to recall. In his first scene, having spotted a drawing of Saracen's transporter on the hiding Sammy's wrist, he bluffs Sammy's friend with a long speech about how Star-rule 37G forbids the revelation of his whereabouts during a mission, blah, blah, or something. It was so unexpected that the audience fell about. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 286 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (10:45) * 1 lines Thanks, Mark! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 287 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (11:05) * 1 lines She didn't seem to like Colin apart from saying that she would have liked J.I. (which was bad enought) was there anything else she said that made you think she didn't like Colin and did theProducer/Director seem to agree with her. Personally I think she is getting above herself,although it was a sweet funny film it wasn't a great screenplay and with JI, it would neither have been sweet or funny. Sorry to any JI fans, just my opinion, and Whitney Houston & Ji. nevah!! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 288 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (13:38) * 5 lines he tells her to say his name (before she called him Mr Field...) This is from another movie. I've heard this used before and I can't remember. It's killing me. Same type situation where the woman had never used his first name before, so he asks her to say his name. (Ann) with JI, it would neither have been sweet or funny. Totally agree and I haven't even seen the movie. ;-D Humbug on Humbert! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 289 of 352: Laura McCarthy (LauraMM) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (14:10) * 1 lines Could I add what I think the title of Secret Laughter of Women means. Although I haven't seen it (obviously, I'm in Boston), but could it be the language between women (i.e. friends?). Say Nimi and her friends and Jenny and her friends?

(copy continued) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 290 of 352: Lizza J (Lizza) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (15:23) * 8 lines Thanks Ann, Tineke, Aishling and Mark once again for enlightening us so thoroughly! I don't think you have left a stone unturned in your quest to bring us every SLOW detail. I think I am really looking forward to seeing it and Ann has particularly convinced me by saying the video is one to keep (and treasure!) when it does eventually appear. Just one question - does he look as thin as he is now in 3DOR, or would you say he has lost weight? Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 291 of 352: Evelyn (lafn) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (15:52) * 54 lines Hi Gang....Mark, Ann and Aishling....you have all given a great synopsis of the film...Here is mine: ~~~~~~ Mark...sorry we missed you on the Friday screening..but Duty called, I see: to write the first SLOW review!!Thanks Mark.We took off to the distribs for press kit. Not too much to add to all my predecessors remarks.. They could have called SLOW "Man Behaving Badly and they wouldn't have been far off the mark....and with a less skilled actor the audience would have loathed him. But even knowing his intentions are disingenuous , the audience is swept along and seduced by Matthew ..just like Nimi. You know the plot and the predictable ending. The dialogue at times is "Screen-Writing 101"stuff..but there are a few clever lines...three!I found the dialogue among the Nigerian women most appealing...esp. the preponderanceof proverbs to make a point. Misan Sagay seems to write women -talk best...along with dialogue between Matthew and Sammy ( she should, she's a pediatrician!)Most unappealing are the lines between Matthew and Nimi....baaaad.Peter Schwabach has seen P&P more times than I have...and stolen all the best Andrew Davies scenes...He should sue. But hey, we're the beneficiaries. As one reviewer says "CF saves the film"...and he has never looked better. So with apologies to Moon: TEN REASONS WHY I LIKED SLOW... 1. ODB has the starring role 2. He speaks French 3. He dances 4. He smolders (with sexual undertones!) 5. He flirts...(with that "on foot" smile) 6. Lots of snogs ...alas no foreplay and no shags:-( 7. Wears clothes to die for 8. Lots of close ups...plainly seen: ears pierced, neck (for those of you who are into mole-counting!)....and we noticed a small flaw under the left nostril!) 9. Good Chemistry with Nia Long. 10. Cute banter with Sammy. ~~~~~~ Womanizer references are several: 1. Jenny confronts Nimi with "there have been several"...and implies that she is another one. 2. The Reverend Folla reading in the newspaper about Matthew Fields; "...had a heart attack while bonking an MP's wife". BTW Matt has a heart attack in this film too...(alas not while bonking anybody.) It takes two viewings to get the gist of this film... ~~~~~ This is a cute film...don't know why a British distributor didn't pick it up sooner.It was available to them. IMO it has a better potential for a US audience than FP. (Somebody tell Phaedra!!)Definitely, the best ODB has looked since P&P. We will have a real party discussing this one. ~~~~ I'll give The Ritzy Report later....enough to say that it was an exasperating experience. Aishling and I reconstructed the Q&A. I spoke to the director on the way out...pertaining to US distribution. I can see that my job isn't over...if she is right. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 292 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (16:23) * 19 lines Thanks for your comments, Evelyn. Now *shining a bright light in your eyes* it's your turn for the interrogation. I found the dialogue among the Nigerian women most appealing...esp. the preponderance of proverbs to make a point Aha! Has this something to do with "secret laughter?" Loved your top ten list! 2. The Reverend Folla reading in the newspaper about Matthew Fields; "...had a heart attack while bonking an MP's wife". BTW Matt has a heart attack in this film too...(alas not while bonking anybody.) Alas, indeed! You've lost me on the heart attack business, though. Others have referred to the newspaper article--a heart attack in one so young would be unusual (now, in someone of Jeremy Iron's age...), so it was likely a ruse--but what do you mean about Matt having a heart attack in the film? IMO it has a better potential for a US audience than FP. (Somebody tell Phaedra!!) You're right. Poor Phaedra. FP did so poorly in NY it seems to have vanished. I spoke to the director on the way out...pertaining to US distribution. I can see that my job isn't over...if she is right. Do tell! Do tell! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 293 of 352: Moon Dreams (Moon) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (16:40) * 9 lines Welcome back, Evelyn! Loved the top 10! It is definitely one to swoon over. ;-D Did anyone point out the faux-pas to Sagay? I would have! What does the 3DOR poster look like? Have we seen the pix? Tell us all about your encounter with Colin. Did you ask about Flashman, or any future project? Do you have a pix of your lovely group? Eileen, I believe Matt was recuperating from his heart attack in the south of France. Now we know when it happened. Age is not neccesarily a factor for one to have a heart attack.

(copy continued) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 294 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (16:49) * 15 lines Great comments, Evelyn! and we noticed a small flaw under the left nostril!) Definitely a point we need to discuss! IMO it has a better potential for a US audience than FP. (Somebody tell Phaedra!!) Oh no!!!! It should go to somebody somewhat competent. These people don't have enough clout to get their coffee refilled at the nearest Denny's let alone find an "avelilable" [sic] screen in the entire US! I see 10 excellent reasons to see this film, when only one would have sufficed and these are double-barrelled reasons, counting two apiece: 4. He smolders (with sexual undertones!) 5. He flirts...(with that "on foot" smile) *be still my heart* (Eileen) a heart attack in one so young would be unusual (now, in someone of Jeremy Iron's age...) You are baaaaadddd! Of course, a heart attack in one so young is usually massive and fatal. But with this second one, he isn't even taken to the hospital, but to Nimi's house or her mother's house. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 295 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (16:52) * 1 lines Hopefully, you will see the poster tomorrow. Right now it is masking taped to my wall where I photographed it this morning. Will pick up the prints tomorrow for scanning. It is an *ooohhhh yeahhhh* Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 296 of 352: Moon Dreams (Moon) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (16:59) * 2 lines It is an *ooohhhh yeahhhh* Go ahead and tease us, we tremble with anticipation. ;-) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 297 of 352: Heide (heide) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (19:08) * 7 lines Welcome back, Evelyn. XOXOXOX We missed you! Before I get maudlin, back to the film... What is with this heart attack business, we all want to know. He's suffered two already at his age? This film may not be a good candidate for "will they live happily ever after." Looking forward to my new SLOW wallpaper. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 298 of 352: Evelyn (lafn) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (20:55) * 18 lines (Eileen)but what do you mean about Matt having a heart attack in the film? Just what I said....you see him slumped over in the car...with the people carrying him out...Then he's taken to Nimi's house!!! "The doctor said he would release him.. when we found his relatives"...then...."We found your wife" says Nimi. You see what I mean about the riveting dialogue. ~~~~ (Moon)Did anyone point out the faux-pas to Sagay? I would have! What does the 3DOR poster look like? Have we seen the pix? Tell us all about your encounter with Colin. Did you ask about Flashman, or any future project? Do you have a pix of your lovely group? Moon...I posted the encounter with Colin on 123. The 3 DOR poster is the same as the pic on the brochure. I did not ask any questions. I treat this encounter as a social one ...not an interrogation. I have no agenda when I go ....I never plan to ask him any questions. I did not ask him for an autograph ( I don't have one) and I did not take a picture.In January, I would like to take a pic of Karen and him ...I feel the poor girl was cheated in March.Like I said.. I go to relish the moment. I did not confront Ms. Sagay with any derogotory comments ...that would have been rude. I did ask her privately about th US distribution....I will give you that account later. The film ended about 11:20...the tubes stop running at midnight...and Brixton was to hell 'n gone. There were no tubes from Brixton and I was not sure we could get a taxi to Victoria to make the midnight deadline. Susan....you were our inspiration...if Susan did it alone...I felt the three of us could do it together. So we were anxious to get out...yet we wanted to stay til the end of the Q&A. We were fighting the clock. The SLOW poster is absolutely gorgeous...as is the film. This movie is a survivor...I'm convinced it will be shown in the US. A natural for Lifetime channel on cable. Definitely a "chick-flick", a date movie.A heart-stopper for sure. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 299 of 352: Moon Dreams (Moon) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (21:50) * 12 lines I did not confront Ms. Sagay with any derogotory comments ...that would have been rude. Evelyn, you misunderstood me. Ms. Sagay should have been checked on her comments but there is no need to be derogatory or rude in doing so. I did not ask any questions. I treat this encounter as a social one ...not an interrogation. I have no agenda when I go. Asking a question about a future project does not make for an interrogation and certainly in no way could he have thought you to have an agenda by asking a question. We are interrogating you with all our questions, as we do have the tendency to assail the lucky ones who chat with OVDB. I hope you do get a chance to take his picture with Karen, she deserves it! How was Summerfolk? Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 300 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Tue, Nov 16, 1999 (22:24) * 5 lines I feel the poor girl was cheated Don't mind me. Just sitting here wallowing in self-pity. ;-D BTW, Moon, I must have misread your comment about the poster. The 3DOR one is the same that's been posted at the theater websites, like Albemarle's. But the SLOW one is a variation of the Nimi artwork that HandMade had used. Poor Ms. Sagay, they've added Colin Firth to the poster. *boo hoo* Now people might think it's a movie about Colin Firth! ;-D

(copy continued) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 301 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (07:43) * 14 lines (Moon) Age is not neccesarily a factor for one to have a heart attack. It most certainly is. (Karen) You are baaaaadddd! Most of the time, yes, but I was speaking medically here. And humbug, Humbert, indeed! he isn't even taken to the hospital, but to Nimi's house or her mother's house. Guess he had an American HMO. (Evelyn) you see him slumped over in the car...with the people carrying him out...Then he's taken to Nimi's house!!! Thanks for the clarification, Ev. The place to go after a heart attack (or as Mari calls it, a My-oh-Colin-al Infarction) or even an angina episode is not someone's house. Matthew probably just had gas :-D Harumph. If Sagay is a pediatrician, she ought to know this. Bad story line. Veddy veddy bad. If I ever come face-to-face with ODB, I'd be lucky to get an intelligible word out of my mouth. You knew what was appropriate for the time and place, Evelyn. But it doesn't stop the rest of us from wanting to ask by proxy! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 303 of 352: Elena (Elena) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (09:47) * 3 lines (Evelyn)I treat this encounter as a social one That�s what makes that encounter so great, your instincts work perfectly, Evelyn! He came to you to say he was glad to see you there, not to answer a flow of curious fan questions. If you had started to question him he wouldn�t come to you deliberately again. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 304 of 352: Mari (mari) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (10:05) * 11 lines he isn't even taken to the hospital, but to Nimi's house or her mother's house. (Eileen) Guess he had an American HMO. ROTF! If you're right, Eileen, one can only hope that Dr. Nimi, the Primary Care Physician, had a fresh supply of leeches on hand!;-) Note to self: 1. Swallow coffee before reading posts. 2. Purchase plastic slipcover for monitor if neglect to do # 1. Evelyn, you are amazing. As I told Karen, most of us bring home red double-decker bus magnets; leave it to you to haul a Colincopia of Firthabilia! Am greatly enjoying your posts. Would love to hear more about the *exact* moment that you realized he recognized you and was coming over. I have to confess: in March I was one of those curious fan types who asked him questions, just work-related stuff, you know, like "boxers or briefs?";-) Mari Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 305 of 352: Moon Dreams (Moon) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (10:18) * 6 lines (Mari), I have to confess: in March I was one of those curious fan types who asked him questions, just work-related stuff, you know, like "boxers or briefs?";-) Mari you should know better than to make such a confession here. We need all the details before we can absolve you. :-) Please continue... Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 306 of 352: SusanMC (SusanMC) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (10:42) * 16 lines (Evelyn) Peter Schwabach has seen P&P more times than I have...and stolen all the best Andrew Davies scenes. Could you elaborate? Was there a lot of sparring-type situations between Matt and Nimi? In January, I would like to take a pic of Karen and him. Most definitely! Susan....you were our inspiration...if Susan did it alone...I felt the three of us could do it together. You're sweet to say this, but I shouldn't be anyone's inspiration. If I was any kind of a competent driver my trip would have been a piece of cake. Guess he had an American HMO. LOL, Eileen! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 307 of 352: Xian (Xian) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (12:40) * 9 lines (Evelyn)I treat this encounter as a social one (Elena) That�s what makes that encounter so great, your instincts work perfectly, Evelyn! He came to you to say he was glad to see you there, not to answer a flow of curious fan questions. If you had started to question him he wouldn�t come to you deliberately again. But he might expect Evelyn to ask him some questions since he knew she was not one of those stalkers (you know what I mean, don't you?) then Colin could be disappointed for not having an exciting conversation with one of his finest fans ;-) I do wish Evelyn would ask him to get onto cf.com for his film discussion (that may get him interested). Thanks to all who posted the latest 3DOR and SLOW reviews. I'm having a great time to absorb them. Now go back to my little corner, see ya!

(copy continued) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 308 of 352: Evelyn (lafn) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (12:57) * 13 lines (Mari)I have to confess: in March I was one of those curious fan types who asked him questions, justwork-related stuff, you know, like "boxers or briefs?";-) Mari, you're the greatest....and coming from you, I am sure he would laugh and not be offended. I guess, I just don't care that much....I am happy to see him on stage anytime, anywhere. Anyway, asking questions when I don't know anyone personally is just not me...sorry. ~~~~~~~ (Evelyn) Peter Schwabach has seen P&P more times than I have...and stolen all the best Andrew Davies scenes. (Susan)Could you elaborate? Was there a lot of sparring-type situations between Matt and Nimi? P&P cloned scenes 1. He looks out the window (wearing a ghastly dressing gown)at Nimi while she is sketching his garden. (She is a landscape architect). 2. He rescues Sammy in a boating accident ...swims in a tank...comes out with dripping wet shirt.. 3. Lots of smoldering looks. I have notes someplace...Springfolks who attended please add to this list. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 309 of 352: Lizza J (Lizza) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (16:07) * 7 lines OOOHHH!!! What glimpses of ODB to whet the appetite! Evelyn, great top 10 and Karen we await your skilled photography with keen anticipation. I can see I will have to focus on his nose at my next 3DOR visit! I have lapped up every detail, thank you. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 310 of 352: Lizza J (Lizza) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (16:08) * 3 lines P.S Is the dripping wet shirt white as in Pemberly white? Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 311 of 352: Ann W (amw) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (16:17) * 1 lines Blue, I think Lizza! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 312 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (18:20) * 9 lines (Evelyn) 1. He looks out the window (wearing a ghastly dressing gown)at Nimi while she is sketching his garden. Wot?! She wasn't frolicking with a dog? ;-D Does Colin do his trademark (Andrew Davies) snuff out a candle with bare fingers? (Lizza) we await your skilled photography I guess I must be one of those who cuts off heads. ;-D Sorry, the others will have to wait. I've had a hard day picking up pictures, taking another roll (hanging the poster on outside walls, garage doors, etc.), having that developed, trying to figure out if any were good, picking up the slides from another place, then scanning the lot of them. 'Fraid I don't even want to look at them right now....at least until tomorrow. BTW, the kid at the photoshop thought the closeup one of Matt and Nimi in bed (which you've already seen) was "really neat." ;-D Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 313 of 352: Evelyn (lafn) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (19:57) * 43 lines THE RITZY REPORT After the screening there were some Q&A's for about 25 minutes with Misan Sagay, the writer/producer and director Peter Schwabach.the questions came from members of the audience...one we felt was planted.The audience was not as enthusiastic as at the Friday screening. That might have had something to do with the fact that it was a real marathon to get to the Ritzy since the tubes had quit running. The Ritzy BTW is a misnomer...the place is a dive.The cinema had about ten rows..with seats that defied viewi g the film. Brixton BTW is OK....we never felt threatened.Busy High Street. (I am paraphrasing the following....would like Tineke and Aishling to comment/correct) Q. Did you feel you accomplished your mission in making this film? Misan: Well, yes and no.I wanted to make a film about Nigerian women for women...but the financiers[ Handmade] wanted a film about Colin Firth.They actually wanted me to cut out the part with the women....then you just would have had CF walking around. [Much laughter] She then spoke at length about the trials of getting financing.I got the idea that they were grateful that the LFF had given them a slot. Someone asked if the film would be shown in the UK and she said yes from Nov. 26 Optimum would distribu e it. The US distribution rights were still in the hands of the bank. [That got a big WOT? from me] BBC wanted Whitney Houston and only wanted a budget of 400,000 UKP."Why that's WH's haridresser money!!" They also wanted Jeremy Irons but when the production was delayed, "he couldn't fit the dates into his schedule."[This lady was so inarticulate].So we got Colin Firth.Three weeks into production, Handmade went bankrupt and I had to pay the bills on my credit card. At times I hid among the cast when the bill collectors came. Finally I went to the Art Council for money to pay the creditors. Q. Why did you make an English film in the south of France. PS said because it is a picturesque spot and there is a colony of expats [Brits] there and a Nigerian community. Q. What was you background ? Misan said she was a pediatrician and was used to having children on her knee giving them shots.[No kidding she said this].PS spoke about his educational credentials. Q. Did you shoot more than one ending for this film? Much laughter from director...."that only happens on 30 million UKP films." On the way out I asked her if I heard her correctly whenshe said the US distribution was still in the hands of the bank and she said "Yes, but we're trying to talk them out of it". ~~~~~ Hey kids...that's all I know.

(copy continued) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 314 of 352: Evelyn (lafn) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (20:16) * 4 lines I want to add that the Nigerian native dresses are absolutely exquisite. Nia Long looks particularly beautiful when she wears them...she has a dazzling smile and a impish, ironic intelligence about her.Was perfect for the part as was the little boy [actually I preferred him to Fraser in MLSF].The bi-racial topic was never an issue..more cross-cultural. [Could have been Anglo-Italian!]The director said it was a film about an individual vs. the community. Also forgot to add that Misan wanted African music and the financiers insisted on a mainstream soundtrack.They do play African music when the women dance at Sammy's Birthday party.Nimi is very a graceful dancer and Matthew an appreciative audience!!( With that "on foot" smirk) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 315 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Wed, Nov 17, 1999 (22:24) * 9 lines She then spoke at length about the trials of getting financing. Excuuuuuuuuuuuz me???? From the Production Notes and I quote: The filmmakers were fortunate to be offered financing very early on. The script was picked up first by British Screen and then the European Script Fund who funded the first two drafts. "I'm afraid I don't have one of those wonderful epic stories about how it took 20 years to get the script funded," states Misan. Peter concurs: "In terms of attracting money it wasn't an uphill struggle because the material was so good. British Screen having seen Attenborough put the first money into the script followed by the European Script Fund. HandMade Films were next to come on board with Gareth Jones as Executive Producer. The relationship with HandMade Films was a happy one, they were very committed and a real pleasure to work with."[...] The film wrapped after a seven week shoot. Peter Schwabach was never really daunted by the task of directing his first feature: "It was project I'd worked on for a couple of years already and I'd been intimately involved with writing the script. I also spent a lot of time casting it, we flew to Lagos to get Nene, and the film was of a sufficient budget that I was able to hand-pick the people I wanted. In that sense the film wasn't compromised in the way that when you make a short you have to get people for free." So which is it? Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 316 of 352: aishling (aishling) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (04:30) * 1 lines Well, Evelyn's report is accurate. Misan did go on at length about the financing (or lack of it). She did acutally say she was very grateful to the LFF for screeening the film. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 317 of 352: MarkG (MarkG) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (04:48) * 8 lines I guess there's no sympathy available for producers who get the money easily - better to overspend, dodge creditors and tell stories about how harrowing it's all been. The heart attack - I assumed it was all a ruse to get into Nimi's house; I'm sure Nimi is told "he's lying on the couch, and they can't find anything wrong with him at all". I don't know anything about him recovering from another h.a. Otherwise they have a clouded happy ever after together - she's already lost one husband. Eileen asked for the funny lines a while ago; I'm having trouble remembering them all but when CF has caused consternation at the party and Sammy explains: "You must never touch food with your left hand; it's dirty - you wipe your bottom with it", he replies "Not necessarily" - that got a big laugh. (probably British toilet humour) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 318 of 352: Moon Dreams (Moon) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (07:13) * 5 lines Very funny, Mark. The director said it was a film about an individual vs. the community. Hey, this is Donovan Quick! Thank you, Evelyn for the report. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 319 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (08:32) * 7 lines (Mark) The heart attack - I assumed it was all a ruse to get into Nimi's house; I'm sure Nimi is told "he's lying on the couch, and they can't find anything wrong with him at all". I don't know anything about him recovering from another h.a. The first one, incurred while--how was it put?--bonking a politician's wife sounded like a ruse to me (no doubt influenced by all those Flashman books I've read!). A repeat of the same ruse to get into Nimi's house makes sense. Thanks for trying to remember the funny lines! (Elena) That�s what makes that encounter so great, your instincts work perfectly, Evelyn! He came to you to say he was glad to see you there, not to answer a flow of curious fan questions. If you had started to question him he wouldn�t come to you deliberately again. Very well said, Elena. Evelyn, you haven't been christened 'Dame Evelyn' for nothin'! Thanks for the Q&A summation. IMO the production notes have been 'spun' and Sagay spoke the truth during the Q&A--a little too bluntly when it came to "settling" for CF instead of JI. We know HandMade went bankrupt, that's for sure! Evelyn, what do you think about your friends at the bank pursuing US distribution? Did the UK release breathe new life into the project?

(copy continued) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 321 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (09:08) * 10 lines (Mark) she's already lost one husband Really? Did they ever say that Nimi had been married? What happened to the other husband? I got the impression that Sammy was produced out of wedlock. The notes mention several times that Nimi's mother's greatest desire is for Nimi to wear a "married woman's head-tie" for her "chance of respectability." A widow is very respectable in most cultures. Don't know if Nimi had been married before and her husband just left her or divorced her...and what that would say about her status in the community. A ha!! Found this: "There are few stains that a married woman's head-tie cannot disguise .." [synopsis lead in] We are introduced to Nimi da Silva at the Church of the Anglican Ascension. Women in bright traditional African dress flutter around like birds of paradise discussing the latest gossip as tehy stand in pecking order of head-ties. Towards the front, under the pulpit are the noble head-ties, silken and luxurious; at the back, simple cotton prints and more animated converesation. Nimi enters the church with her seven year old son Sammy and heads towards the back, nervously adjusting her humble scarf - the clear sign of her shameful unmarried status. (Eileen) IMO the production notes have been 'spun' and Sagay spoke the truth during the Q&A I agree that the production notes have been spun, but why go to such lengths to fabricate a story about the ready availability of financing. To place blame for the delayed release on the film to HandMade's bankruptcy as opposed to the film's brilliance? ;-D Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 322 of 352: MarkG (MarkG) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (09:52) * 7 lines The film makes it quite clear that Nimi's first husband, Sammy's father, drowned (no explanation of how or why, but I guess it adds extra poignancy to Sammy's subsequent brush with death). I was taking it as a charming point in MF's favour that he didn't immediately ask about Sammy's father, or indeed seem to be bothered. The information was given well into the movie (I think in response to a question from the priest or his parents). I now think it may have been because someone other than the original writer demanded that Nimi have a *decent* explanation of her situation. The implication was that the culture was even more oppressive because despite her widowhood, the Nigerian women needed to shame Nimi into re-marrying. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 323 of 352: SusanMC (SusanMC) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (09:55) * 7 lines Thanks for the Q&A, Evelyn. Which was the question you feel was planted? I asked her if I heard her correctly when she said the US distribution was still in the hands of the bank and she said Yes, but we're trying to talk them out of it.. Am I confused, or is she saying that she hopes the film *won't* be distributed in the U.S.? This woman really sounds like a piece of work. No wonder Colin seems to want to wash his hands of the whole thing. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 324 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (10:35) * 4 lines (Karen) but why go to such lengths to fabricate a story about the ready availability of financing. To place blame for the delayed release on the film to HandMade's bankruptcy as opposed to the film's brilliance? ;-D Tee hee! Good point. Since posting my last I thought of another question, then promply forgot it. Thankfully Susan hasthought of it also: Which was the question you feel was planted? Was it the one about Sagay's vision for the film? Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 325 of 352: Cathey (catheyp) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (15:04) * 6 lines (Karen) I've heard this used before and I can't remember. It's killing me. Same type situation where the woman had never used his first name before, so he asks her to say his name. Don't know if this is the one you were thinking of Karen, but I saw it in a BBC version of Emma. Mr Knightly asked Emma to call him "George" (I think that was his name; I always think of him as Mr Knightly). I'm going to see MLSF again on Sunday (another 250km trek). My Mum may come with me. I've convinced her she will like the film even though she doesn't have a firthsession. Cathey Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 326 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (16:03) * 1 lines Actually, the Timothy Dalton "Jane Eyre" keeps surfacing, but I think it's something a bit more recent. Don't think it was the BBC's Emma. I've tried to forget that one. ;-D Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 327 of 352: Evelyn (lafn) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (17:25) * 8 lines IMO the production notes have been 'spun' and Sagay spoke the truth during the Q&A Karen, did you say that the production notes were probably written by Handmade Films....probably before they went bankrupt. It was sudden...I was in contact with them in those days...and those girls did not know they were going to be out of a job. ~~~~~ I understood that Nimi was an unwed mother... (Big Spoiler!)At the beginning Matthew tells her their relationship would have limitations (he's married!). She then decides to marry Rev. Folla in order to give Sammy a name . At the end Matthew says: "Field is a name too". And they embrace among the tomatoes. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 328 of 352: Evelyn (lafn) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (17:29) * 2 lines Re; US distrib... According to Misan, the bank still has the rights of distribution in the US.. and she is trying to get it so it can be shown in the US.It seems convoluted to me...but next week I plan to call the bank for verification

darn! (copy continued) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 329 of 352: bethan (lizbeth54) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (17:39) * 5 lines Aaaah! My kind of film! I'll keep my eyes wide open for some promo in the press this weekend. SLOW doesn't have to be outstanding to attract some attention. There's enough that's "different" about it...the setting, the fact that the director is a woman and Nigerian (I presume), the theme, the culture clash, and the fact that there are two very photogenic leads. It opens the same week as the latest James Bond, so I'm really hoping to see some publicity! I don't think Handmade went bankrupt during the filming...well afterwards, surely. And I don't think the BBC would budget only �400,00 for a full-length film! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 330 of 352: Evelyn (lafn) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (21:10) * 5 lines (Bethan)I don't think Handmade went bankrupt during the filming...well afterwards, surely. And I don't think the BBC would budget only �400,00 for a full-length film! That's what Misan said....elaborated on it too. Said the funding was cut three weeks into production. The Art Council finally gave her money to pay the bills. But they had no money for post-production..which is why it went on for a year...! Let me assure you..according to her it was a real Pity Party. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 331 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Thu, Nov 18, 1999 (22:30) * 15 lines (Evelyn) did you say that the production notes were probably written by Handmade Films...probably before they went bankrupt Oh, definitely, they were done by HandMade...before. In Colin's bio, it says: "and most recently, 1000 Acres (Jocelyn Moorhouse) and World of Moss (Hugh Hudson)." (Mark) The film makes it quite clear that Nimi's first husband, Sammy's father, drowned (Evelyn) I understood that Nimi was an unwed mother... Sammy's father could have drowned, but he may not have been Nimi's husband. The significance of the head-tie (rank) appears integral to the story. (Evelyn) the bank still has the rights of distribution in the US. The only thing I can make of this is that Optimum didn't have enough $$$ to buy the film outright from the bank. It could only afford distribution rights within the UK. So the bank or its sales agent may be continuing to parcel it out. Plausible. (Bethan) And I don't think the BBC would budget only �400,00 for a full-length film! Where did BBC come from? It isn't mentioned anywhere in the credits or production history. (Bethan) It opens the same week as the latest James Bond Would be a tough choice for me! ;-D so I'm shallow ;-p Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 332 of 352: Evelyn (lafn) * Fri, Nov 19, 1999 (08:36) * 8 lines (Bethan) And I don't think the BBC would budget only �400,000 for a full-length film! (Karen)Where did BBC come from? It isn't mentioned anywhere in the credits or production history. I think BBC must be the same as The Art Council funding. She did mention BBC...and if I remember correctly at the beginning it says: "Paragon Films, Handmade Films and BBC". Bethan, 400,000UKP would not have been the whole budget for this film...their was other funding. ~~~~~~~ Hey....Karen....you changed Mathew's shoes!!!! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 333 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Fri, Nov 19, 1999 (09:12) * 3 lines Love the 'shoes among the tomatoes' pic on the main page. But will you be revealing the rest of his body? Yikes, we're sooo demanding! Let me get this straight, Evelyn. In your opinion, was Sagay's sad tale of bankruptcy, lack of funds, hiding among the actors to escape bill collectors, etc. (BTW, were violins playing in the background?) an exaggeration of the truth? Or did HandMade go bankrupt much later on in the process? Thanks. Also, which question in the Q&A do you and Aishling feel was a plant? I promise to turn off the bright light that's shining in your eyes very soon :-) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 334 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Fri, Nov 19, 1999 (11:03) * 3 lines Eileen, am working on it now. ;-D OK, you people who saw SLOW, why didn't you say that Christopher Bowen plays Rupert, who I assume is Jenny's lover? Fond memories of Cold Comfort Farm (when I wasn't admiring Rufus)! ;-D Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 335 of 352: Evelyn (lafn) * Fri, Nov 19, 1999 (11:19) * 8 lines (Karen)OK, you people who saw SLOW, why didn't you say that Christopher Bowen plays Rupert, Who cares about CB??Anyway that was one anemic performance...:-) ~~~~~ No Eileen..I don't think Misan was exaggerating....as improbable as it might seem. She had the director standing next to her and I doubt she would have blatantly lied.If she said Handmade went bankrupt three weeks into production and Peter Schwabach agrees...who are we to say they didn't. There was a lot going on at that time. You see, Paragon Entertainment Corp. a Canadian Company and parent company of Handmade went bankrupt.In the process they tried to see the distribution rights to Handmade's stable f 22 films. When that didn't happen...the bank took over the assets. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 336 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Fri, Nov 19, 1999 (13:51) * 1 lines Thanks, Ev. I was aware of the basic chain of events but not the timing.

(copy continued) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 338 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Fri, Nov 19, 1999 (14:51) * 5 lines So much for putting a link up??? Just go to my Drool Bucket. Lots of new stuff for SLOW ;-D Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 339 of 352: bethan (lizbeth54) * Fri, Nov 19, 1999 (18:54) * 1 lines Thank you Karen! And Evelyn! First-rate stuff. Fascinating production notes, and the synopsis is excellent. I like Nia's comments about Colin, oh, and the fact that he can relate to the commitment-phobic Matthew, and the moment of really falling for someone (I paraphrase!) Looking forward to seeing this! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 341 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Fri, Nov 19, 1999 (21:14) * 3 lines Oops I see the mistake. BTW, you can always get there from the 3Deers main page. http://www.spring.net/~KarenR/mdbro/main.html Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 342 of 352: bethan (lizbeth54) * Sat, Nov 20, 1999 (05:10) * 3 lines SLOW...don't know if this is significant, but the Times Metro lists as its "coming next week" three films, the Bond movie, "The Astronaut's Wife" (Johnny Depp) and SLOW. Given that about ten films seem to open each week and several suffer the indignity of being totally ignored, this is recognition of a kind. I also noticed that in our region, "Onegin" is playing in very few theatres...about par with "TheWinslow Boy" when it was first released. Suprises me in view of the blanket promotion it received. BTW, Colin may find that courtesy of the new Bridget Jones and the ES awards (hopefully!), SLOW may get some indirect publicity! Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 343 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Sat, Nov 20, 1999 (08:37) * 3 lines Any sighting is significant. :-D Think I was inspired by the television show I taped for Evelyn about the WWII code breaking. There is another interpretation for Colin's remarks in the Donmar lobby about SLOW. He said something to the effect of "sorry it didn't work out." In addition to (1) sorry you missed it and (2) sorry it turned out so bad, there is also the possibility that he's expressing regret that it took so long to come out. I'll know more when I find my codebooks. ;-D Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 344 of 352: Heide (heide) * Sat, Nov 20, 1999 (11:10) * 5 lines That's a beautiful page, Karen. The colors are brilliant and the photos - argh, I wanna see this film. I'm greedy. In addition to (1) sorry you missed it and (2)sorry it turned out so bad, there is also the possibility that he's expressing regret that it took so long to come out. Sounds like Moon's cue for the other seven reasons to make her Top Ten list. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 345 of 352: Mari (mari) * Sat, Nov 20, 1999 (11:46) * 8 lines Super job on the SLOW page, Karen! Thanks to you and Evelyn for these goodies. Nice to see that Nia Long has joined the ever-growing list of Colin's Leading Ladies Who Love him. But what's with the tomato pic? Looks rather . . .seedy.;-) Sigh. Remember when guys brought you roses? ;-) (Karen) There is another interpretation for Colin's remarks in the Donmar lobby about SLOW. He said something to the effect of "sorry it didn't work out." Maybe he really said, "sorry *I* didn't work out." Nimi might have immediately gone for a guy with pecs! ;-D Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 346 of 352: Evelyn (lafn) * Sat, Nov 20, 1999 (11:56) * 4 lines Thanks to you and Evelyn for these goodies. Hey..not me....all I did was carry the stuff home. Aishling schlepped that poster all over London(found the tube) and Tineke found the Optimum cubby-hole on Charring Cross Rd. A real Spring-team effort. ~~~~~~ BTW anybody planning to bring home a 3 DOR poster, you can purchase tubes at a post office...but the closest ones to the Donmar is on Trafalgar Sq. US poster shops have shoulder strap carriers. They are fiendish to carry through Heathrow. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 347 of 352: Arami (Arami) * Sun, Nov 21, 1999 (17:23) * 5 lines LOL, Mari! * Evelyn, next time remember to bring a piece of string and some sticky tape...;-) * Btw, isn't it time to open a new SLOW board? Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 348 of 352: Heide (heide) * Sun, Nov 21, 1999 (18:14) * 2 lines Btw, isn't it time to open a new SLOW board? Sure, it's only fair. When does the film open for general release and will you UK ladies be ableto see it so we get some posts? Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 349 of 352: KJArt (KJArt) * Sun, Nov 21, 1999 (20:38) * 2 lines May I suggest that we're doing just fine with this one, so far? Why not have a general "Current Film Spoilers" Topic so you won't have to keep creating new ones ... remember, next year is going to be a busy year. We shouldn't be creating a new topic every other week ...Activity on any given "Spoilers" Topic is usually pretty short-lived. They rarely fill up with very many responses and having a long list of numbered topics can be v. confusing. [This coming from the Muddle Champion of all Time!!] :-) Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 350 of 352: Eileen (EileenG) * Tue, Nov 23, 1999 (11:07) * 5 lines Karen's got this review on her SLOW page (the link is posted at 123) "...Firth seems uneasy throughout, particularly when his catty British wife, played by Caroline Goodall, comes calling. /.../ This collision of cultures tale chugs along quite pleasantly but ends up going nowhere, despite the lively acting of the almost uniformly excellent Nigerian cast members. /.../ Bogged down in local colour the British contingent fail to be sufficiently interesting and thus the love story can have no real heart." A bit biased, don't you think? Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 351 of 352: Evelyn (lafn) * Tue, Nov 23, 1999 (11:29) * 10 lines ...Firth seems uneasy throughout, particularly when his catty British wife, played by Caroline Goodall, comes calling. /.../ Of course he's uneasy...the guy is in love with Nimi and is getting ready to dump Jenny. The Nigerian cast??? Only one is from Nigeria. The others are from UK. Sammy comes from Surrey!!Rev. Folla has played with the RSC!! ....love story can have no real heart. Should read..."The love story has no real plot...." But it is an OK film. I would see it again. Topic 121 of 126 [drool]: My Life So Far SPOILERS!!! Response 352 of 352: Karen (KarenR) * Tue, Nov 23, 1999 (22:46) * 3 lines Evelyn's right. The only Nigerian is the actress who plays Nimi's mother. Her bio was pretty interesting. She has mounted a Nigerian production of "An Ideal Husband." I get the feeling that people are disappointed because they were expecting something different. As if using a Nigerian-English premise would somehow lift it out of being a usual and customary romantic comedy. But aren't many rom-coms about opposites attracting? ask him to get onto cf.com for his film discussion (that may get him interested).

Oops, missed this last one. Sorry, Karen Evelyn's right. The only Nigerian is the actress who plays Nimi's mother. Her bio was pretty interesting. She has mounted a Nigerian production of "An Ideal Husband." I get the feeling that people are disappointed because they were expecting something different. As if using a Nigerian-English premise would somehow lift it out of being a usual and customary romantic comedy. But aren't many rom-coms about opposites attracting?

Great effort to get this topic started & posted up, Heide! My sincere apologies for just blithely using 121 originally.

Heavens no, Mark using 121 was entirely appropriate! With so many new CF projects showing up in 2000, now is the time to do away with one topic per production lest we overtax the board. It's been behaving so well lately, I don't want this sudden wealth to blow it up. ;-) BTW, it was entertaining to re-read all that has been posted on SLOW. We tackled this project with our usual thoroughness and still more to come I trust.

Great idea Heide, thanks for doing this, it makes great reading , always good to give such an excellent review another airing Mark!! As it looks like I may have to wait until at least December to see SLOW then this topic is a great taster! Or should that be teaser?

Well...how to begin... I was supposed to see this yesterday with my DH but he had a work crisis (the story of out life) and so I went alone today to the 1.35 pm performance. There were about 25 people there, all but about 2 were women. I am actually glad that the DH wasn't with me. For I have to say that Anne Billson was not all wrong. IMHO, the film has a weak script, terrible editing and except for CF, NL and CG, very feeble acting. The whole thing was very amateurish. The editing was so jagged that it almost gave me a headache. In one example, Caroline Goodhall is with Matthew one minute and then, "flash", she is in Nimi's living room. It must have been all the work of Saracen. I am also with those critics who commented on the lack of explanation for this community in the South of France. What were they doing there? It is obvious that their culture was important to the plot but it is never explaned or examined. Also Matthew and his wife seemed so fond of each other and were obviously such friends that Mattew's rejection of his wife seemed cruel.

Onto another post. AOL problems again but only 2 more weeks of the free trial and then I'll try another! Colin is wonderful, he looks gorgeous, those dimples! But I just felt embarrassment that such a professional actor could be in this mish mash. Sorry to be so down on this. Do go and see it. If you love CF, you will come out of the cinema, as I did, with a huge smile on your face. But if you are not a CF fanatic, I have to say this is one to miss.

You'll buy the video though, won't you Allison. Colin's looks out of 10 - off the scale!!! definitely one to drool over and I am sure this isn't the film Colin signed up for, some much editing. He certainly doesn't have much luck in this respect what with MLSF, ATA and now SLOW.

(Unfortunately all these films are with him as the romantic lead, enough to put him of for ever, unfortunately)

(Allison) Sorry to be so down on this. Don't be! IMHO anyone who expected this movie to be immune to bad reviews (OK, the 'violent' ones sounded a bit over the top) was being a little unrealistic. There was a reason this film wasn't picked up for distribution and came *this close* to remaining in the bank vault forever. It must have been all the work of Saracen. Hee hee! Good explanation.

Ann, I agree that his looks are to die for. I came out into Leicester square at 3.30pm. It was starting to get dark (euchh) and it was raining but I had such difficulty not grinning from ear to ear all the way home. Think I might have to watch the video. Very high rewind factor here!

...but you wouldn't consider it one of the year's worse (Ann Billson), would you? I think we all would agree that, if it were not for Colin, we probably wouldn't waste our time with this film. If had even *some* boxoffice potential, it would have sold here...at least to cable!! Now onto more substantive concerns... I am also with those critics who commented on the lack of explanation for this community in the South of France. What were they doing there? Why did you feel this needed to be explained? There are ex-pat communities of all nationalities all over the world. People leave their native lands for many reasons and tend to congregate with others from their same land. Happens everywhere. The fact that there is a Nigerian community in the s. of France wouldn't seem particularly unusual. There is probably one here in Chicago. Have been in many cabs here driven by Nigerians. :-)

The south of France seems odd. They were an anglophone community and also an anglican one. Why in France? If they were Catholic and French speaking it wuld make sense. We have an enormous community in London, obviously and I can understand there bieng groups in the States, same language etc. But France? Pourquoi?

The south of France seems odd. They were an anglophone community and also an anglican one. Why in France? If they were Catholic and French speaking it wuld make sense. We have an enormous community in London, obviously and I can understand there being groups in the States, same language etc. But France? Pourquoi?

Sorry for typos and repetition!

but you wouldn't consider it one of the year's worse (Ann Billson), would you? It's right up there with the Blair Witch Project, she said provocatively!

It's right up there with the Blair Witch Project, she said provocatively! Oh nooooooooooo!! It can't be THAT bad! I could barely keep my eyes open during TBW, because it was soooo booring. Can't say the same about SLOW. Way too much eye candy. BTW, did you know that TBW got its worse response demographically from *women* in *our* age group. In other words, it didn't appeal to "thinking persons" ;-D

Duuhhh????

(Allison)But I just felt embarrassment that such a professional actor could be in this mish mash. Know what you mean..., I felt the same way about FP.....:-D However, we can say all want about editing etc...but surely he must have read the script and realized that the whole thing was made up of cliches. Unless, of course, they wrote the script as they went along and changed it from the original.He has had enough experience reading scripts by now to analyze which one sounds amateurish. I liked my original assessment that he did it for altruistic reasons (help out a Nigerian author). But after the Q&A period at the Ritzy , that theory went out the window. One wonders what his prioities are in choosing a project...the character was interesting...but the "script... Louisa". ~~~~ No one contests that he looks gorgeous, however.

Duuhhh???? And this relates to what specifically in my last comment? ;-D

In other words, it didn't appeal to "thinking persons" ;-D So, there's hope for my eldest son. He hated it!

I didn't think it possible for anyone under 30 to "hate it." I saw it early on, when it was only playing in 13 cinemas in the US, a full house, much laughter and not all "with" it. No screams of horror, no vomiting. Afterward, all I heard was "hey, man, that was the 'coolest' 'scariest' flick ever." Think it was handed out on little slips of paper to memorize. I was too sleepy and glad to be leaving.

but surely he must have read the script and realized that the whole thing was made up of cliches. Well, he was (technically speaking!) still in his honeymoon period when he filmed it! Maybe he was looking through life with rose-tinted glasses at the time and didn't recognise a cliche as a cliche! He also does seem to be attracted to projects which involve children. I think he's a bit of a sentimentalist at heart....needs some help with reading his scripts! Well, I'll go expecting eye-candy, and anything else will be a bonus. Although I am interested in the depiction of African culture (and BTW there is a Nigerian community in the south of France (and a much larger Francophone African community), and I presume they would have their own church.) I also wonder about the style of acting (amateurish?)...having watched dramas on Nigerian TV, their style of acting is quite different, and even in everyday life, they seem to speak more pedantically.

Thanks for the review, Allison, and I'm sure we're not that surprised. The information the film missed giving may give credence to Ms. Sagay's more legitimate complaints that her film ended up to be not what she wanted. but surely he must have read the script and realized that the whole thing was made up of cliches. And hey...he was paid for spending time in the South of France. Sounds ok to me.

And this relates to what specifically in my last comment? Sorry, Karen, I was just identifying myself in the categories of non-thinking people (by virtue of my gender) Ah well, the same old story (... me ... "humour" ... lead balloon ... just keep quiet, Mark ...)

(Mark) Sorry, Karen, I was just identifying myself in the categories of non-thinking people (by virtue of my gender) Ah well, the same old story (... me ... "humour" ... lead balloon ... just keep quiet, Mark ...) Not at all, Mark. What I thought you meant by that exquisitely expressive and perspicacious monosyllable Duuhhh???? was Who in the world would have thought that BWP appealed to thinking persons in the first place? Are you saying that you did in fact enjoy it? MDH and MDSon both saw it, and they do think, although perhaps not about the same things as I. It made MDH sick but not MDS. No doubt this is significant as the 30th birthday chasm separates them. I however did not see it partly b/c of the corollary to Firthette rule #1. That, you will recall, is Any Film is Improved by the Addition of ODB--Any Film, Anywhere, Any Time. The corollary is Any Film is Impoverished by the Absence of ODB to Some Degree and May Be Fatally So.

I didn't see BWP, as (a) I don't like horror, and (b) Karen panned it. Reaction from friends suggests, as so often, that its impact is the opposite of their expectations. Those who hoped it would be the scariest film for a generation were disappointed and bemused, those who hadn't heard the hype were impressed and frightened. I even enjoyed not explaining the truth to a visitor in the office who was convincing people it was real film salvaged from the forest.

Re: Duh??? I wasn't sure. And it's a combination of gender and age, smart guy ;-D BTW, Allison's son not only showed good taste but also bravery--going against popularly held opinion for his age group.

BTW, Allison's son not only showed good taste but also bravery--going against popularly held opinion for his age group. Gosh, Karen! How kind of you to ascribe such sentiments to my son. I fear he is just the world's most impatient person and just could not stand the slow pace:-) Talking of slow paces, I find myself suffering withdrawal today. Much as I criticised SLOW, I do find myself yearning for another fix of those deep brown eyes, that loping stride and long lean.......ah, I can't go on! Unfortunately I do not think there will be another opportunity for popping up to Leicester Square this week and I do not antic pate that it will be around much longer.

How long before the video comes out I wonder, I think Slow will be one of my favourites and one that is played very often. I had hoped it would come to Brighton, but nothing so far.

The corollary is Any Film is Impoverished by the Absence of ODB to Some Degree and May Be Fatally So. I do agree with your theorems, Prof. Cymbeline. I saw Sleepy Hollow last w/e mostly because I thought Johnny Depp had a kind of Darcy-esque quality about him (the eyes, the costume). Well, Depp was good but the rest of the movie tanked. Halfway through 'art' fades in the face of blood, guts and gore. And rolling heads, of course. Sorry for the OT: now back to SLOW.

Am absolutely shattered after a very long day, starting at 5.30am. But have seen SLOW and actually enjoyed it! More later... Just briefly though, I rang yesterday Optimum Releasing re SLOW. It will have a very selective release in other parts of the countery. For example, next week it's showing at Manchester Showcase, then in 3 weeks probably Leeds Showcase. I only asked about my area. They really only know a week in advance (but it's not art-houses) The best thing is to ring them on 0207 4784466 (new London code) and enquire about your region. You get through instantly and the guy in charge of SLOW is very helpful. Other news....the VIDEO will be out in just over 3 months, in April. So everyone, PAL conversions permitting, should be able to see it. Meant to ask about where it had been sold, but forgot. More next....

Have gotten a second wind, so I'll try to post some thoughts about SLOW before going to bed! I had a hectic day in London, attending a very demanding seminar, but managed to squeeze in SLOW before rushing for my train. I have to say that I went in with zero expectations, and was pleasantly surprised. Call me shallow, but I didn't think it was too bad ....I agree with Christopher Tookey's review...its a pleasant way of spending 2 hours (well, an hour and a half or so!) I think I was a bit stressed after all my rushing around, and just found it relaxing to watch something that is visually pleasing. The setting is picturesque, the costumes are very colourful, Nia Long is very pretty in her Nigerian dress, and Colin, well, he is , no doubt about it, very, very handsome! Forget those Fiennes bros! I just thought "mmmm"!! And gawped! But, apart from the superficialities, I enjoyed the romance (Okay, corny, but they make a charming couple) and also the depiction of Nigerian culture...the significance of the costumes, the arranged marriage etc. I didn't think it was badly acted...just "differently" acted, and appropriate to Nigerians' speech patterns, delivery and body language, which are not the same as ours. I had no problem with the acting. Or with the notion of an African community living in S.France...although I agree we should hea more of the French language!! (Some Africans are bi-lingual, and also speak their local dialect.) It's lightweight but easy on the eye, and has a core of sweetness which I quite liked. I think it's been over-edited...perhaps cut down from 120 minutes to 95, and this can results in apparent jumps and inconsistencies. And the dialogue can be so-so, but ..overall, not too bad! I'd love to see him in a seminal role, and I guess it's always disappointing, when, yet again, you see him in something fairly average that doesn't do justice to his talents (although this film certainly does justice to his looks...those dark suits!) But if you accept the film for what it is, I think I can definitely go along more with the Times review (rather than Ann Bilson!)

Thanks for that Bethan, I too thought they made a lovely charming and believeable couple. Unfortunately the bad reviews are sure to put Colin off from playing the romantic lead, which is such a shame. He sure did look good though, defintely a video to savour!!

the bad reviews are sure to put Colin off from playing the romantic lead I'm sure that nothing will put Colin off playing whatever roles he thinks suit him best. That's his job, remeber? :-)

I'm happy for everyone who got a chance to see SLOW, but especially Evelyn and Bethan--I know how closely you've followed its fortunes (or misfortunes;-) over these many months. Good news on the speedy video release, Bethan. Ok, good for those of us who have no chance of seeing it any other way!;-) Your comment about the different style of acting by the Nigerian cast is interesting. Ann, I also hope that this doesn't turn him off from romantic type roles--but it may give him pause about the types of film projects he gets involved in. Maybe that's ultimately a healthy thing. And, if the SLOW reviews had to be mostly negative, at least they came at a time when they are more than counteracted by his success at the Donmar. He's in a hit play, working before a packed-house every night, in a critically-acclaimed performance. And, I think that MLSF will receive a good critical receptio when it reaches your shores. Maybe I have blinders on about this film, but it really is a wonderful movie--well-written, beautifully acted, sweet but with a bit of a bite. So, that's a great one to look forward to. Funny . . .I generally don't see the glass as half full; this is so unlike me.;-) (Mark) Ah well, the same old story (... me ... "humour" ... lead balloon ... Don't feel bad, Mark. I've been told that my jokes go over like a pregnant high-jumper!;-)

Thanks Bethan...you had quite a marathon day. But SLOW was a good way to end it. Like you said visually pleasing...just don't dissect it.

Brava, Bethan! I think back to your crusade (and Evelyn's), and now you have both seen it! There is something so rewarding in that. It makes my day. Now I just have to wait for the video. :-)

(Mari) I'm happy for everyone who got a chance to see SLOW, but especially Evelyn and Bethan--I know how closely you've followed its fortunes (or misfortunes;-) over these many months. Well said, Mari. Ditto for me! (Bethan) But have seen SLOW and actually enjoyed it! I would have been disappointed if you didn't like it, Bethan. Thanks for the video news. (Mari) I've been told that my jokes go over like a pregnant high-jumper!;-) Hee hee! Sez who?

If you'd seen the reviews for this week's crop of UK films, you'd have thought that SLOW was very well received! Yes, not long to wait for the video....and as I've said, visually this is a treat! I'm impressed that Optimum have managed to slot it into a multiplex chain (Showcase). What a contrast with the apparent indifference of Miramax/Buena Vista towards MLSF. BV said they planned just a London release followed by a slow release thru' the regions, because "it just wasn't a multiplex film". So it will be spasmodic independent art house, I suppose!

Bethan, I could live with all the reviews for SLOW except Anne Bilson's, comparing it to Mad Cows is just too much to take. Am waiting to see if it comes to my neck of the woods, tomorrow!

I wonder why MLSF is considered an Art House film and SLOW isn't? Could it be because MLSF is scottish and SLOW Arts Council?

While I could hardly tell BVI how to do its business, but MLSF has been playing in lovely, state-of-the-art multiplexes throughout Australia. There is nothing about that film that necessitates screening it in dilapidated art houses. Evelyn, MLSF was funded by the Scottish Arts Council.

When MLSF played in my area, it was in a state-of-the-art multiplex. The one near me is a 16-screener (just expanded from 12) that shows some of the more interesting studio fare (American Beauty, Being John Malkovich), smaller indie fare (Dogma, The Straight Story, The Winslow Boy) and foreign language films (Run Lola, Run, The Dinner Game). So, I think it really depends on what's available screenwise in the area, and if an area shows support of such films. And frankly, compared to some of the films I entioned above, there's nothing particularly "art-house-y" about MLSF. Miramax chipped in the bulk of the MLSF cost.

Bethan, is SLOW still playing in London and Peckham in addition to the Showcase in Manchester?

Very nice page put up by the Showcase theatre chain: http://www.showcasecinemas.co.uk/films/slaughter.fhtml (although I notice that there is only one screening time for SLOW in Manchester; not exactly positioning it for the date crowd)

(Allison) Also Matthew and his wife seemed so fond of each other and were obviously such friends that Mattew's rejection of his wife seemed cruel. Trying to reserve judgment till I see the film, but this is the part I'm having trouble with. Have a hard time finding anything sweet or romantic about films that involve dumping your spouse -- unless you're married to the spouse from hell. Sounds like Matthew leaves Jenny in the lurch -- in which case the "happy ending" kind of leaves a sour taste with me. Could you elaborate on how Jenny is portrayed? One reviewer describes her as "catty" -- is this a fair assessment? Any more so than any woman would be who doesn't want to lose her husband? At the end, did it seem she realized she really loved Matthew, or just didn't want anyone else to have him? Does the fact that Matthew is, um, married ever come up as an obstacle, in addition to the cross-cultural ones? If not, that seems rather odd to me. (And yes, I know it was an "open" marriage, but still.) Would the plot have worked just as well if Matthew were a notorious (single) playboy rather than a married man?

I checked the This is London site last night and SLOW is showing at the ABC Panton until at least Dec. 9. Thank heavens. I am leaving for London tonight and am really looking forward to seeing this film and of course ODB in the flesh at the Donmar.I will be thinking of all you wonderful Firth fans while I am away.

Have a lovely time Lynda and a safe return and we look forward to your report on your return. Its rather windy and cold in the UK so wrap up warm, lots of snow in Scotland but it has a long way to come to get to London!!

(Karen) Very nice page put up by the Showcase theatre chain: http://www.showcasecinemas.co.uk/films/slaughter.fhtml Wouldn't be surprised if this address would attract the wrong kind of audience for "Slaughter of Women". Or can they possibly refer to the editing? ;-P

Why are they the "wrong" kind of audience? ;-) They are the under 25 crowd who flock to Scream movies. Who else could go to a 4.20 showing?

(Susan) Could you elaborate on how Jenny is portrayed? As I remember, catty is a fair assessment; when she turned up she was sardonic and mocking, and of course brought her current man for flaunting. Even when she turned up in Nimi's home with the "hands-off" speech, you didn't feel that she was revealing a deep love, more protecting her property. Does the fact that Matthew is, um, married ever come up as an obstacle, in addition to the cross-cultural ones? When he is recovering from the "heart attack", Nimi says "we didn't know who to tell, but then we located your wife". She spits out the word, and it is the first time, after about 45 minutes, that we find out he is married (if we haven't read the spoilers). So it is clearly an obstacle, and one not fully broken down by the "sophisticated" open nature of the marriage. However, I didn't feel much sympathy for Jenny, even though she is not a complete villain.

Susan, I agree with Mark's assessment of the "marriage"....there's really no leaving in the lurch. Karen, you amaze me...you really do track down the information! I was going to refer you to http://www.yell.co.uk, which enables you to search for programmes in all cinemas in the UK. But you don't need it!. SLOW is still at Peckham Premier. Actually this isn't a bad theatre. I used to get a magazine called Screen which covers the business side of the film industry. Peckham Premier has four or five screens, each with 300 seats (cf ABC Panton St with 140 seats) As to SLOW with a 4.20 screening in Manchester Showcase...I still think this borders on a miracle! Have you seen what it's showing with...The World is not enough, Sixth Sense, Blair Witch, Tarzan and Phantom Menace! This is the "big" league!! :-) Have a great time Lynda. By all accounts, CF is getting better and better in 3DOR, and SLOW will be an unexpected bonus!

Thanks for your assessments re: the marriage issue, Mark and Bethan. Sounds like I'll be able to enjoy this film after all:-)

Thanks, Bethan, for the url. It is rather hit or miss since I don't know the UK cinema chains' names and do guess a lot. But a 4.20 showtime is not conducive for a "date movie," which is generally how romantic comedies are marketed. Of course, all the Volvo-driving women of a certain age will see to it that their Labs have ample water and will head off for the 4.20 showing and then bring takeaway home for dinner. Correct? ;-)

(Susan)Sounds like I'll be able to enjoy this film after all:-) Just remember to drink this movie in visually...don't dissect it...it's full of holes. And actually, Colin isn't a very convincing adulterer/cad either.Even when you know he doesn't plan to marry Nimi..you're on his side! (I had the same problem in Valmont too...he never convinced me of being an aristocratic lothario)

According to the regional cinema listings, SLOW is showing at the Manchester Showcase at 4.20, 7.05, 9.20 and 11.35, which is okay!

One shouldn't have to be away from one's computer for such a length of time that posts in Drool gain a "too much - these'll have to wait" quality. I thank you all for the marvelous reviews and comments. I enjoy CF's movies so much from all your posts it is almost as good as actually watching them - or so I tell myself ;-) Truly, thank you all very much. These spoilers don't spoil anything for me - quite the contrary! :-) Last minute news: I've just learned that my tv cable company is giving Valmont on the 26th... A real Xmas present! I can't believe I'm atually and finally going to see it - as long as the VCR works!

Can anyone please tell me why the simple "news" I typed in became a sort of link?

It's a mystery ;-)

:-D

(Gi) I've just learned that my tv cable company is giving Valmont on the 26th Merry Christmas, indeed! Let us know how you like it. Also let us know if you feel an overwhelming urge to take dictation. You'll see, you'll see ;-)

Gi, how marvelous! I will enjoy reading your comments on my return from Italia.

I hope to make some... I'm embarrassed at how mute I've been on ATA, one movie I did see recently...

I must post my views on SLOW before I can no longer read the handwriting of my notes. First of all, I did see this film a few times. It was a perfect respite from pounding the London pavements in the cold...the rain...the wind, sometimes all three together. And it was showing in Leicester Square, most conveniently. My 15-year old was lukewarm, but my sister-in-law and my DH enjoyed it very much, as did I . Okay, we aren�t film critics, but we know what is boring, and this film wasn�t. IMO. Colin has never looked better. His hair was curly and thick. His clothes, even the flashy, expensive-looking dressing gown, were very flattering. Everything he wore set off his lovely neck and slim build. My favourite outfit was Matthew�s white shirt, partially unbuttoned, but, honestly, he looked fabulous throughout. Lots of smiles and terrific looks between him and Nimi and even Jenny. He had some very sexy scenes and the chemistry between him and Nimi was quite believable. I enloyed the entire film, even the parts with no Colin and even after repeat viewings. I liked Nia Long and didn�t think the other actors were amateurish, at all, with the possible exception of Rev. Fola�s mother. Quite enjoyed the interplay of the women. I also liked the music, a combination of gentle African rhythms and French accordion. The African clothes were stunning. As an American, I did not find the film anti-American, more anti the phony and lonely sophistication that Jenny and Matthew (British and John (American) represented. Nimi�s mother made a comment to that point which was quite telling. Made me think. Favourite scenes: Matthew snooping around Nimi�s place. When he asks her to say his name - oohh. And again, right before they make love the first time, when he asks her the same thing. The scene between Matthew and Jenny when she first appears. He is dozing in the garden and looks absolutely edible. It�s apparent she thinks so, too, especially when she grabs the hair at his nape in her fist, gives his head a shake, and tells him it (his hair) looks wild. I thought she was going to gobble him up - I would have. Matthew stroking Nimi�s arm, right before Sammy interrupts and the scene after in which Nimi pulls off his jacket. Jenny untying Matthew�s dressing gown sash. Notice how I chose all the high-brow scenes. Favourite Lines: Sammy yelling at his mother, as he drags Matthew into the church, �Mamma, look what I got you.� What a kid! Nimi saying to Matthew, �Saracen (his comic book creation) banging, screwing and nailing is not sex, but carpentry.� Matthew saying later, when Nimi comments that he really thinks about things, �You mean I�m not just a carpenter.� Matthew asking Nimi to say his name - very erotic. The comment of Nimi�s friends that �white men chase women up and down the bed, turn them over and over like grilling meat and they still conceive. Miracle!� Then Nimi pipes up and says �It�s foreplay - I read it in a magazine.� Re: Matthew�s marriage. He and Jenny are quite clearly fond of each other, have great sex together, move in the same social circles. She is not a villain as they obviously at one time shared similar values. However, Nimi awakens in him the need for commitment, the need to be possessed and to possess. Now I ask you, could any of us imagine sharing our husbands, boyfriends, whatever, sexually, especially if he looked like ODB. Jenny actually leaves France so that Matthew and Nimi can develop their relations ip. When Jenny arrives the first time, Matthew and Nimi had not yet slept together. Whatever Jenny and Matthew share, it is not passionate love. Matthew attempts to talk to Jenny about this one night when he is unable to make love to her. She tells him they are the fittest and he replies, (I am paraphrasing here) �What about when we are not fit? What about when we need?� She responds, �We�ll rise above it.� Hence his remarks near the end when he says that he needs Nimi and Jenny asks, �What about me?� and he says, �You�ll rise abov it.� He wanted her reassurance that she would always be there for him and she wouldn�t give it. I never got the sense that she was passionately, in the emotional sense, in love with him. Re: the ending. The only thing that seemed contrived was the boat business and that was partially because of bad editing. The boat is first shown drifting out to sea, but when Matthew and Nimi arrive, it is on its side in the cove. How convenient. Matthew�s making the comment about �Field is a name too,� refers to Nimi�s only reason for marrying Rev. Fola. She wants Sammy to have a last name. BTW, the Rev. Fola may have been in lust with Nimi, but again I never got the sense that he loved her. Think of Mr Collins� reasons for wanting to marry Lizzy and you have a good perspective on Rev. Fola�s interest in Nimi. Moreover, you just knew that he didn�t like Sammy and planned to send him off to boarding school ASAP. Matthew and Sammy, however, were friends before he ever met Nimi. Matthew brings the tomatoes to make a public offer of marriage for her, as she had asked him to do in the restuarant scene, because no one had ever done so before, including the Rev. Fola with his family investigators. In the final scene, she asks Matthew about his wife and he says, �You are my wife.� Perhaps not yet legally, but emo ionally. It sounds callous, I know, but Jenny, who apparently sleeps around as much as Matthew (we see her in bed with John, Matthew�s agent), seems merely to mind losing, as opposed to losing Matthew, and she had her chance when he reached out to her and she rebuffed him, again on an emotional level, not a physical one. They had a very superficial marriage. I also liked the interplay between Nimi and her mother and their friends. Perhaps the title refers to all of the secret manoeuvrings between the women to arrange Nimi�s marriage. Colin and the boy were cute together. There was a scene in this film like in MLSF where the father figure is asked to explain to the boy about sex and at one point, the kid gets the better of the man (tells Matthew that he knows all about the penis, vagina, rabbit business. Which definitely perplexes Matthew. Then Sammy tells Mat hew that he saw a film at a friend�s house and the woman was screaming and swearing. Matthew says, �Probably was moaning - it�s an important distinction.� Matthew is by no means as nonplussed as Edward, however. Finally, although the film isn�t Academy Award material, it is very enjoyable and sweet. I was rooting for Matthew and Nimi all the way. Not to mention, Colin plays an Alpha male in this - rich, handsome, successful, desirable, commanding. Too bad SLOW didn�t succeed. An aside: I did notice that the poster in the Leicester Square tube station was ripped to shreds. Couldn�t decide if it was done by a desperate Firthette or by her disgruntled boyfriend, husband, etc. ;-)

Lynda--thanks for that lovely synopsis/commentary. I'm unhinged! she asks Matthew about his wife and he says, �You are my wife.� Get a bigger bucket! That reminds me of the line in The Advocate, (and btw I am among the admirers of that film--brains, looks, AND charm--they get me every time) anyhow, the line where Colin quotes The Song of Solomon to the gypsy woman--Thou art black but comely, my sister, my wife. Absolutely edible as you so perfectly put it. When does the video come out!?

(Lynda), Colin plays an Alpha male in this - rich, handsome, successful, desirable, commanding. The producers of BJD should see it and put an end to their doubts and finally offer DB the part of MD. Thank you for such a detailed opinion, Lynda. You certainly had a firthfilling time. ;-D

Thank you Lynda..I enjoyed your review. I didn't find all the things you did in the film...But I enjoyed it alright...because he is in every frame, and never looked better. But the film per se gets a poor grade ...He gets a #10.

Oh! I'm putting in my order for that PAL video right now. Marvelous rendering, Lynda. Your favorite scenes like they'd be mine too. And I love the lines you quoted, especially this: Nimi saying to Matthew, "Saracen (his comic book creation) banging, screwing and nailing is not sex, but carpentry". Matthew saying later, when Nimi comments that he really thinks about things, "You mean I�m not just a carpenter." and this: The comment of Nimi�s friends that white men chase women up and down the bed, turn them over and over like grilling meat and they still conceive. Miracle! Then Nimi pipes up and says "It�s foreplay - I read it in a magazine." Matthew asking Nimi to say his name - very erotic. I notice you mention this twice. ;-) Yes, I know I will love this film.

I thought I would post my comments about 3DOR now while we are attempting to get over Colin�s snub. Although all three actors in this Olivier-nominated play were good, he was the best of them, IMO. The Donmar is an excellent venue for an intimate play like this in which it is important to see the actors� faces. Mind, we had excellent seats (first and second row, centre stalls). I was told that the corner side seats are not so good despite the actors� efforts at playing to the entire audience. EMcG was good, especially in the second act as Lina, but her appearance put me off - way too much lipstick making her look a tad clown-like. David Morrissey performed his role well and had some good lines, but his characters were rather light weight and didn�t make a big impression. As for the costumes, they were uniformly unattractive, particularly ODB�s and especially the lovely sweater he wears as Ned. The play is a great deal funnier than I expected, but had some touching moments, too. Colin looks very handsome at some moments, especially in both acts when he is sitting on the stool in semi-profile listening to Lina speak. I marvelled at how different he looked from moment to moment, even on stage. His chameleon-like quality in films is a talent, not the result of make-up or editing. He uses his hands to great effect, particularly as Walker, constantly fidgeting and picking at his clothes and waving them about. You could sense the character�s high level of nervous tension and the panic hreatening to overwhelm him at any moment. I was also quite fascinated with Colin�s lengthy time on the cat-walked posed in a motionless, silent s-curve. A feast for the eyes. Some of my favourite moments: Walker�s �reconstruct along with me� monologue - very funny, but touching too. Ned�s flaneur monologue, so sad, yet he didn�t find the notion of that life sad. Ned�s comment about taking his drawing materials with him to Central Park as a shield in case someone wanted to talk to him. The one line sums up the effects of the cruelty directed by so-called normal people towards anyone different. Ned�s being the butt because of his stuttering turned him inward in self-defence. A touching moment. Ned�s monologue about children. I can remember having the very same thoughts before I became a parent. Very funny and so true. Walker�s saying that his mother looked like something crystal, then red everywhere. A child�s concrete observation. His perfectly delivered words to Pip, �you must publish,� and also his scornful comment regarding Pip�s qualifications as a cultural critic as one who buys copies of antique Italienate chifferobes from catalogues. Lina�s quip about everyone in NYC being a genius or a connoisseur. Colin�s delivery of the lines about his attempting to get a hamburger from Craig-the-waiter. Lina's sweet encouragement of Ned at the end of the play. Made me feel sad that they ended up divorced. I agree with other comments about ODB�s talents as a comedian. His timing is quite good and he doesn�t try for laughs. All-in-all, I think 3DOR is a very good showcase for Colin. My only criticism of his poignant, funny performance is of his voice. I cannot for the life of me figure out was his accent was supposed to be. DM was clearly going for a Boston-accent but Colin�s voice was too flat for my liking and pitched a little high. Also re his failure to capture a Olivier nomination, at one performance I ent to, a couple of women behind me thought he was too hysterical as Walker and it seems from previous drool comments that he had upped the energy level from his highly-acclaimed performance in March. As for me, not having seen his earlier portrayal, I really enjoyed him as the Janeways, son and father, because the performance was so very different than his film work which is generally much quieter. I am sure everyone in London now will enjoy him in this and in SLOW. BTW, can anyone say why the group didn�t go next week to see him on his closing night? Just curious.

Colin looks very handsome at some moments, especially in both acts when he is sitting on the stool in semi-profile listening to Lina speak. I was also quite fascinated with Colin�s lengthy time on the cat-walked posed in a motionless, silent s-curve. A feast for the eyes. Wot!? My dear Lynda, you're supposed to be following the action on the stage, not watching Colin! What got into you? ;-) Walker�s "reconstruct along with me" monologue - very funny, but touching too. Ummmm. Don't you want a tape recorder for that? You're bringing it all back to me, including the expressive hands. Lina�s quip about everyone in NYC being a genius or a connoisseur. Perhaps her best line? One of the few times she puts a genuine Southern drawl to her words. DM was clearly going for a Boston-accent He was? Then he must have been trying harder this time around. I don't think he bothered with any accent but his own when I saw it. Thanks for posting your observations, Lynda. Did you overhear the women behind you regarding their opinion of Walker or did you speak to them. Curious to know more of what they said. I don't know why. My opinion of his performance if firmly entrenched. He was mahvelous, darlings! And I'm glad you thought so too.

Thank you so much, Lynda for that articulate and perceptive report on the experience of witnessing a 3DoR performance. It is perhaps the most vivid and comprensive one that I've seen here so far, IMO. What a gift you have!

Did you overhear the women behind you regarding their opinion of Walker... I overheard them during the intermission, since they were sitting in the row behind me a few seats over and were not being particularly quiet as they aired their observations. They also said something to the effect of "Couldn't they have found a better actor to play the part?" Believe you me, I was boiling a little (okay, a lot). I know everyone is entitled to an opinion, but does one need to be so loud about it while one is still in the theatre and the play is not yet over. I restrained myself and did no enter into a debate, though I was sorely tempted. And speaking of theatre behaviour, I am amazed at the rudeness of some theatre- goers in London, who seem to be under the impresson that they are at the cinema instead of attending a live-performance being given by real, flesh and blood human beings. Patrons are not permitted to eat in live theatres in North America, and it is a good policy IMO. Mind, this is not a recent development in London - I was quite shocked the first I was in London in the 70's. This time,I actually had to turn around and speak to someone behind me who was eating Pringle's potato chips with such noisy ferocity during a performance of The Woman In Black, a quiet, rather intense two character play, that I was nearly crawling out of my skin in annoyance. Fortunately, the culprit was took heed of my glare and my polite request that he stop, so that I was spared the necessity of throttling the idiot. On the subject of opinions, I sat next to a Firth fan at my last performance. She saw SLOW at the London FF (not at the Brixton theatre, but at the other one), thought he was to die for but did not like the film. I think she said, "It wasn't brilliant, was it?" No, it wasn't Amadeus, but as you know, I did like it anyway. Also, she asked me whether I thought his accent was good. I hemmed and hawed, said I thought it was interesting, I think. I didn't hate it, but it was his weakness, IMO. But she said she liked it a lot better than his voice in Fever Pitch, which she did not care for. While I really like his voice as Paul Ashworth. My dear Lynda, you're supposed to be following the action on the stage, not watching Colin! Excu-u-u-se me, but the only action I flew 3000 miles to see was Colin's.;-) I did try to glance at DM and EMcG occasionally, but I did not really feel the need to look at them deliver their lines as long as I listened and if there was something better to look at at the moment. One other moment I forgot to mention. At one matinee, I was sitting maybe six feet away directly in front of where Ned picks Lina up and whirls her around. All I could think was, "Me, me, take me, Colin, Ned, whatever."

Sorry, I am sure I closed the tags. Can some one please close them for me now, since I don't know how to do it?

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Thanks for your 3DOR report, Lynda -- loved the details. Just curious, what did your DH and son think of the play and performances?

Susan: Just curious, what did your DH and son think of the play and performances? Just a few words from another male who has now watched 3DOR: I thought it was an excellent play, although the writing was outshone by the performances (with the exception of EMcG�s first half effort). As noted, only the accents seem off, even to English ears. Mind you, I don�t know how I�d cope with trying to do American for 3 hours! There is plenty of humour to jolly things along throughout (though I guess it palls for those who have seen the play several times), and the flashback/reversion device allows Richard Greenberg to indulge in some elegant construction. I�m sure I missed many subtleties, but it was fun to nod sagely after Ned�s �flaneur� monologue, and whisper "So that�s why he called his son Walker". I felt CF really worked his way into the performance whereas David Morrissey hit the ground running, but found it hard to sustain. By the end there was no question who had carried the whole play through though: clearly YDB! I was equally impressed by his dedication in satisfying the fans� demands in the lobby � frankly it was a madhouse, and I could understand EMcG not braving the throng, though I scoffed at the time. What was even more fun though was to meet so many fellow-posters and others, and I should apologise to those I didn�t talk to/identify, and thank those who made it so enjoyable for Anna and myself.

(Lynda) At one matinee, I was sitting maybe six feet away directly in front of where Ned picks Lina up and whirls her around. All I could think was, "Me, me, take me, Colin, Ned, whatever." Tee hee! It's great that the Donmar provided such an excellent setting for this play. It seems from all accounts that the intimacy increased overall enjoyment immensely. They also said something to the effect of "Couldn't they have found a better actor to play the part?" Believe you me, I was boiling a little (okay, a lot). I know everyone is entitled to an opinion, but does one need to be so loud about it while one is still in the theatre and the play is not yet over. I restrained myself and did not enter into a debate, though I was sorely tempted. Could you make out their accents? American? I was equally impressed by his dedication in satisfying the fans� demands in the lobby � frankly it was a madhouse Whatta guy. I'm glad you were able to meet everyone, Mark. Your wife's a real trouper.

Lynda - I restrained myself .... Lynda, I don't know how you did such sacrilege to say ODB is not a good actor, a good actor he most definitely is, I guess they would prefer someone like Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt!!

Thanks, Mark, for posting your thoughts. We count on the men in our midst to be a tad more objective than we could be so I'm glad to see you were able to single out Colin's performance as the one that carried the play through. There is plenty of humour to jolly things along throughout (though I guess it palls for those who have seen the play several times) Gasp! Surely not for anyone here. ;-) I�m sure I missed many subtleties, but it was fun to nod sagely after Ned�s "flaneur" monologue, and whisper "So that�s why he called his son Walker". Good catch for someone who has not spent hours dissecting the script as we have done. You'd be amazed at what we came up with regarding "fenestration". Sounds like the evening was well worth it. So does Anna think we're mad? Thanks, Lynda, for telling us what the women behind you were saying. Okay, I'll be big and say they're allowed to dislike ODB. But how amazingly crass to announce their expert opinions to the rest of the room. You showed such restraint. You did fix them with the evil eye though, I hope.

Sheesh! Sorry....it's fixed.

Heide: So does Anna think we're mad? Far from it. You may yet see her post.

Mark how nice of you to ask your wife to post. I hope she does. Glad you had a positive Theatre experience after what I heard happened with The Real Thing. We enjoy your objective posts.

The theatre experience was good but the Spring experience was better! It was really Karen & Evelyn who got Anna interested in posting, not me. What they said about TRT was that the incident was really very funny, rather than any worse. Apparently JE collapsed from a kneeling position until she was ROTFLHAO. :-)

The theatre experience was good but the Spring experience was better! Spoken like a true gentleman. We are quite envious. I look forward to hearing their accounts of TRT. But first we want all the news from 3DOR. ;-D

HI Mark! It was nice to meet you and your wife. I thought beforehand that I could watch 3DOR with open eyes and objectively from every angle this time and not only our dear boy but that�s really almost impossible for a firthfanatic like me, to be honest. So I kept devouring him and his every body movement and face expression and other physical details with my eyes and listening greedily to his articulation and breathing, and enjoyed it ruthlessly! It again surprised me how close the first row really is to the actors. It was my first time in row A on Friday and it really is something else. You can almost feel the breeze in your face when Colin leaps here and there as Walker and waves his hands in the air. Btw I was a little in panic on Friday because I had a very ill stomach and was afraid that I would suddenly have to rush out in the middle of the performance! It would�ve been a catastrophe for me because I didn�t want to lose a second of it, and e pecially not disturb the performance. Like I�ve said, Colin was very good on Saturday, and very energetic and athletic too! I loved it how he ran to get the photo and the diary to show Nan etc. with his feet loudly stomping. He also took risks with his breathing technique and once almost couldn�t make it to the end of a very long sentence with one draw of breath (when he said to Pip how he�d like to hear what an expert like him.......has to s-a-y.) That stuggle even brought a little color to his face! oops, gotta go, I�m at work....some more comments later.

Heide: So does Anna think we're mad? (Mark)Far from it. You may yet see her post. Ooooh, a potential convert. Please tell Anna that we love newbies and are very gentle :-). Mark, I'm really glad you and Anna got to see 3DOR and meet all the gang! It sounds like a lovely evening was had by all. And everyone, thanks for sharing your thoughts about the play. We Firthless few are living on all the details you throw our way.

Another little observation.... After the play we talked about his habit of looking straight into people�s eyes during the bows. That�s what happened to me as well on Friday when I sat in the front row, directly in front of him when he bowed. He seemed to look directly into my eyes every time he straightened his back and believe it or not, I felt difficult to just look back and I turned my head! Anyway, I knew from that gaze that he enjoys being intensely watched (just like every ambitious performer does) and during the bows he sort of thanks for our attention with his own gaze. And he knows very well what it means to his fans to meet his eyes. It�s a lovely moment.

Also during the the monologue at the beginning I felt that he looked directly at people in the audience.

(Elena) He seemed to look directly into my eyes every time he straightened his back and believe it or not, I felt difficult to just look back and I turned my head! I suppose this was an involuntary reflex to keep your eyes from popping out of your head! 8-D (Gi) Also during the the monologue at the beginning I felt that he looked directly at people in the audience. Yes, I've read about this before. He certainly does know how to connect with an audience, doesn't he? I echo Jana2's sentiments--thanks for all the details. Elena and Gi, what are your thoughts about his performance this time vs. last March? Which did you prefer?

Hi, Personally I preferred last March's performances, maybe because it was so thrilling and so new but I just felt he differentiated between Ned and Walker more in March and I wasn't so keen on all the arm waving this time, also there were times when I couldn't quite hear what he said which is surprising as his diction is usualy so clear. Having said all that though, he has such a stage presence that the stage lights up when he is on it and dims when he is not.

I want to thank Mark and Ann for coming to the Spring Reunion. When I said on #123 that the reunions are getting better, it's because of all of our new friends.They were both real troupers to stay with us til the end and even go for drinks afterwards at the hotel lounge ( we took it over!) The lobby was a madhouse....maybe 50 to 60 people.But not unruly..excited and loud, yes.I had spotted ODB on the upper level and had decided that if he didn't come down ,I personally was going to go up and drag him down.It would have been a dismal disappointment had he not.He was all charm and grace, although surprised at the number of people.

Thank you Lynda, for your comments on 3 DOR. I happen to love this play per se...and having Colin in it is just a bonus. However his performances have been uneven. I have seen it five times total. On Friday night I thought he gave the best Ned ever....I prefer his manic Walker and on Saturday he accentuated the arm-waving and twitching. Ned, not so good. In contrast, I have seen TRT also five times...and it has been constant and seamless.(Except we could not hear him clearly on opening night.)But the guy plays Henry consistently.Does that make SD a better actor? No. But he has had more stage experience than ODB, who has conscentrated on TV and films.And Mark, we got to see "The Lady in the Van"with Maggie Smith. WOW!

( Sorry for the different postings..but I'm doing doubles on Explorer.) About the Glass House: K&I and others had decided we wanted to give him a remembrance from all of us on Spring.A glass house...A Janeway House....K. found one around Christmas and lugged it to London. We had a florist make an arrangement of flowers in it. We have pics and K. will scan them on later. We had it sent to the Donmar. KJArt made an original card which we enclosed. Also K. had found a crystal windmill (for DQ) and we enclosed it in the house. On Saturday night I asked him if he had received the Janeway House ...his f ce lit-up, he turned smiled and said "Yes, thank you"".

Welcome Evelyn! Elena thought his performance on Friday night his worst ever, he seemed to just go through the lines, but she loved Saturday's. Funny, huh? We still want to hear about what happened at TRT opening night.

Welcome back, Evelyn! I had spotted ODB on the upper level and had decided that if he didn't come down ,I personally was going to go up and drag him down. Now that alone would have been worth the price of admission!

Re. the uneven performances....maybe the disappointment of not being one of the five to get an Olivier nomination got to him on the Friday and he felt "flat"...he's only human after all. And despite all the fuss that has been made about him (Darcy in a wet shirt etc), he has said that all he wants is to be regarded as a good actor. (And Anthony Sher didn't get good reviews for "A Winter's Tale") I'm sure he was delighted by his reception on Saturday!!!

Didn't you post some time ago that you were seeing 3DOR toward the end of its run, Bethan? Are you still planning on attending?

(Evelyn) K&I and others had decided we wanted to give him a remembrance from all of us on Spring.A glass house...A Janeway House....K. found one around Christmas and lugged it to London. We had a florist make an arrangement of flowers in it. I'll bet this looked gorgeous, especially with KJ's wonderful card. Thanks for all your efforts (lugging, finding a florist, etc.) on our behalf. Can't wait to see the photos of both flowers and card. Did you send flowers to JE as well? (Moon) We still want to hear about what happened at TRT opening night. Yes, am interested to hear this as well. (Guess we should do that at Odds & Ends.) There was a glowing article about TRT in Yahoo's Theatre section today (article made it sound like last night was press night?) -- after K's initial report I was fearing disaster.

(Evelyn)I personally was going to go up and drag him down. LOL I believe you would have done that! (Ann)he differentiated between Ned and Walker more in March Yes, that�s true. I really think that Colin started doing Ned like he did Walker on both nights, and he shouldn�t have. I remember Ned stuttering more and having a masterfully bad posture in March. Wonder why Colin has made this change. (Bethan)maybe the disappointment of not being one of the five to get an Olivier nomination got to him on the Friday and he felt "flat" He actually had bags under his eyes on Friday = tired, obviously. I do believe that awards mean something to him, why wouldn�t they! Everybody needs praise. But I hope that he�s not the sort of person who would let a thing like that actually disturb his work on stage, in front of a very admiring audience.

Did you send flowers to JE as well? Will take this up on #127. I'm sorry that I posted all about the house etc. on this board. I know better...still jet-lagged. Also we did a Bridget Jones tour of her favorite haunts in Notting Hill...we'll do that on #80. and The Dome on #127 ... some other day. ~~~~~~~ I do want to thank all the Firthfans in UK who made us feel so welcomed...Mark, Ann W., Aishling , Lizza...you were dears.Arami who made us CF keychain prezzies. You made us feel at home...hope we can reciprocate some day.

I found by happenstance an article on Malcolm McDowell, and he had what I thought were some interesting comments about the filming of MLSF. [This is excerpted, but still unconscionably long!] Reel.com Interview: His Life So Far: Malcolm McDowell by Pam Grady McDowell returns to his U.K. roots with his latest project, My Life So Far. In this atmospheric period comedy-drama from Chariots of Fire director Hugh Hudson, McDowell plays the hardheaded businessman Uncle Morris whose return to his mother's Scottish estate with young beautiful fiancee Irene Jacob spells trouble for his sister Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio and her husband Colin Firth. In New York recently to promote My Life So Far, McDowell paused to speak to Reel.com's Pam Grady about the movie... ~~~~~~~~~~~ Q: Let's talk about the new film, My Life So Far. How did you get involved with this? What was it about the script that appealed to you? MM: To be honest with you, it wasn't really so much the appeal of the script, although I liked it. It was the fact that Hugh Hudson is a great old friend of mine. And Hugh called me up and asked me if I would do it, really as a favor to him. I said, of course, I'd do it. If you can't work with your friends, who can you work with? So, I was very happy to do it. Then I heard who he'd cast in it. Colin Firth, who I'm a very big admirer of, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio -- not bad! And Rosemary Harris, who I adore and had worked with before. Irene Jacob, who's a delight. Just to throw into the mix, a whole mob of lovely kids from Scotland and the lovely Kelly Macdonald who was in Trainspotting. So, that mix, that wonderful cast, and I met a lot of other wonderful people on that who became friends of mine. One of them was the continuity girl or the script girl, as they're called, called Libby Barr, who's a lovely Scot from Edinburgh. I got to know her very well. In fact, she worked on this film I'm just doing ow called Gangster Number One. I managed to get her on that. I was thrilled that Libby came with me to that. She's a very fine script person and she's also a friend of mine and I adore her. So, that was great. That was about it really. And the fact that it was David Puttnam, who've I've always admired and liked and I'd never worked with him, either. I thought it was about time I went back to England to work. I hadn't worked in England in a while. I really thought it was time to get back home and do a bit of work in the English way ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Q: To get back to the film. Your character, Uncle Morris, is constantly referred to as a hard-hearted businessman, yet he melts whenever he's in the presence of his fiancee and he clearly enjoys a warm relationship with his young nephew. Was that warmth in the script or is that something you brought to it? MM: I think I brought a lot of that, because I just felt that when you play a character, there obviously has to be more than one side to him. Of course, he's rather an old Edwardian, really. Yes, he can't bear to see waste and he feels that his brother-in-law is completely frivolous and has probably utter contempt for him. Which is hard for him to hide. But, of course, he loves his mother, so it's all kind of all under the surface. Of course, he loves his fiancee and he loves the kids. They're Moira's kids -- his sister's kids. And he loves children. I wanted to make him like a sort of favorite uncle that we've all had at some point in our lives or somebody in the family who's turned up every so often and is larger-than-life. And who sort of brings gifts and things, unusual things. And everybody loves that, you know, that kind of person. I wanted to get a feeling of that for the kids. Q: What was it like working with those kids, particularly Robbie Norman, the little boy at the center of everything, because you share a number of scenes with him? Is it hard to work with such small children? MM: No. they were so good. Of course, they'd been very well rehearsed by the coaches. They did a very good job with them. They had a wonderful casting director, called Patsy Pollack. She organized those kids brilliantly and made sure that they gave wonderful performances and took them through it many, many times. They were really wonderful. He has such an earnest innocence about him -- Robbie. He's lovely. He's absolutely lovely. And little Daniel, too, his brother, but he's been cut out of it a bit. He had quite a mischievous streak. You never knew what he was gonna do, and so I'd always have to say, "I can't hear you. What did you say?" It made it real. Like it would be. I think they all were at ease with me. It was fun. It was a lot of fun doing it. You can't take the attitude, I think, with kids that ... you have to be patient and just let it happen. Make them all feel part of it and important and then they come across beautifully. Q: You've said before that costumes help you get into your characters. In the case of Uncle Morris, he has been described as flashy, but not necessarily tasteful. What did Morris' costumes say to you? Did they help you get into the character? MM: Very much. Any period piece that you do, of course, you rely on the costume enormously to give you that sense of -- I don't know -- that sort of dignity and the bearing of the part, the way you move. It's so different with a beautiful costume on. There's one that I had, in fact, I've still got it. It's a lovely old Harris tweed. It was fabulous. Really beautiful. It's very important, that. I haven't done, actually, that many period films, but the ones I have done, I've always relied on the costume. Actually, I'm doing one, now, called The Visitors, playing a wizard. The makeup, actually, more than the costume in that particular part -- because I've got a bald pate with long, long white hair and a long white beard and a long white mustache, which actually feels like a lot of glue on my face, which it is, but it looks spectacular. You don't have to do a lot of acting, just a lot of believing. Q: You've criticized the British film industry in the past, about how it sort of died in the 1970s. Do you think, perhaps, My Life So Far might in some small way help bring the industry back? MM: I don't know. To be honest, with you, I really don't know. I think there is a renaissance in England right now. England is the center of Europe, if not the planet, at the moment. There's tremendous energy there right now. Rawness. A kind of -- there's a lot of money around suddenly, because of -- well, God knows why it is. It probably has something to do with Margaret Thatcher and her legacy is finally paying off. There's tremendous confidence over there, which is very unusual. There's a lot of people on the street -- it's also been a nice summer. That's a rarity in itself. You get the sense that there's a tremendous amount of pent-up energy that's being let loose in London. I've read three terrific scripts that I thought were really fantastic, only one of which I was able to do, because of conflict of time. But I think there is a renaissance right now. There really is. I don't know whether they'll be able to afford to back the films there or what.... This was a Miramax film, which is, of course, a American company owned by Disney. You have to look to the Americans who have the foresight and the confidence to go out and put their money with their mouth is. That doesn't really do the English any good, in the long run. Of course, it gives us, the actors, employment and all the rest of it, but it doesn't do much for the British film industry. Because the profits don't go back to them. Q: I remember reading a quote from you, saying you'd like to see the English make the money on English films. MM: It would be nice. Listen, there's enough to go around. We're not trying to deprive anybody here. Also, I wouldn't want to take away that hand that feeds me, either. If they have the foresight to see it, then, hey, good luck to them. That's the capitalist way. There's lots more about his earlier career ... at; http://www.hollywoodvideo.com/scoop/sa_030.htm

Interesting! I hope M McD and CF did not have too many political discussions:-)

Thanks KJ , really interesting. Unlike you still waiting to see it.

Great find, KJ. Interesting about his mentioning scenes with the younger boy being cut. Another casualty of this film's editing though probably not as critical as any little snippet of Colin they left on the floor.

(Lizza) Thanks KJ , really interesting. Unlike you still waiting to see it. Still waiting to see it? Whatever made you think that? Did a long drive to Seattle the first week of its release (good thing, too...it only lasted another of reduced showtimes and then was gone), and only just last week rented the tape (this, for me is an amazing phenomenon ... I hardly ever rent videos). Incidentally, this 2nd (and 3rd) viewing only solidified my opinion about the loft scene. But I had a distinct impression that a tiny little snippet of a scene was added to the video that I don't remember from the theatre viewing. My memory is nothing to crow about, however. Maybe I just forgot it. Or perhaps it was put there to solidify one's view of the loft scene. ;-). It was a quick cut back to the loft right after Frazer heard the scream and then was distracted by the Hairy Man erupting out of the leaves just under his nose. Heloise was standing apart from Edward and accused him of acting like a child. Then we cut to the drawing room scene w. MMcD. I interpreted her upset behavior just before joining them to discovering that the precious heirloom choker was missing. Yeh, another thing. Watch when Frazer picks it up out of the hay/moss. He immediately hides it behind his back because a workman LEADING A HORSE past the barn door greets him. The choker is therefore NOT found in the loft, but on ground level below. What does that mean?

No, Lizza is still waiting to see it. ;-) think there was an implied subject in her comment KJ, that scene with Fraser picking up the choker didn't look familiar to me either (bad memory here too), especially with that workman and the horse. The choker is therefore NOT found in the loft, but on ground level below. What does that mean? While they tumbled in the moss, the choker tumbled to the ground? ;-)

(Karen) No, Lizza is still waiting to see it. ;-) think there was an implied subject in her comment Sorry I misunderstood Lizza. And you do have my sympathy (sort of ... I wish waiting were all I needed to do to finally see 3DoR!!;-D). (Karen) KJ, that scene with Fraser picking up the choker didn't look familiar to me either (bad memory here too), especially with that workman and the horse. I remember seeing him pick it up out of the hay/moss and hiding it, but the ground-level bit just didn't register at the time. Only on 2nd watching did I notice it and wonder.

*WARNING* Spoilers ahead! I recently rented the video as well (as an aside, it's probably the best picture and sound quality I've ever seen/heard in a video--perhaps because it was new?). You raise a great point, KJ. I'd only seen the movie once, like you, but I could swear that we heard a full-fledged scream from Heloise, not a truncated little squeal. The whole scene seemed different to me--it's now much clearer there was no rape. BTW, did you notice how the dialogue revolves around the word 'child'? H (to E) "Fraser's a child." E "And you, Morris' child bride." H "You're behaving like a child!" [Those lines not in sequence.] I also noticed Fraser's lead-in voice over, said while he's walking in the direction of the loft (we next see Edward and Heloise in the loft): "I now know more about naked ladies than my dad." (KJ) The choker is therefore NOT found in the loft, but on ground level below. What does that mean? (Karen) While they tumbled in the moss, the choker tumbled to the ground? ;-) Must be. I noticed this in the video also, but could not remember any details other than Fraser finding it. Other things that seemed new to me: - The explicit explanation of who the hairy man turned out to be (Andrew Burns' shell-shocked cousin). I had no recollection of Fraser's voice-over. I agree with Lynda's point made last summer, that he represents Fraser's fears. He only appears when Fraser is frightened or is discussing fear. - The scene in the hallway between Edward and Heloise, when she returns for the curling match (E "Happy?" H "Very. Are you?" [or words to that effect]). - The bull and cow mating scene. Have no recollection at all :-P There are repeated references to bulls and swans throughout the movie. I also missed the end of the Halloween party, when we see Edward through the glass, applying the rod to Donald and Fraser for fighting. But that was because the film had melted. My new favorite line: During the Beethoven's Fifth fishing lesson, when Edward says "...unsuspecting little fishy, hiding in the weeds..." It's the way Colin delivers the line--hilarious. The movie makes alot more sense to me now. This could be due to changes in the video (??), our discussion, or just multiple viewings. It doesn't seem nearly as disjointed as it did on the first go-round. Does anyone else feel the same?

I've yet to see MLSF, but in Denis Forman's book, I thought he made it quite obvious that in some ways his father was a sexual innocent who had only "known" his wife (childhood sweethearts, and didn't recognise or know how to cope with sexual yearnings in himself towards other women (he likes fondling waitresses).

(he likes fondling waitresses) I don't remember that part, but since I picked up the book in London for 1 pound, I'll take another look. ;-)

I read the book and don't remember him fondling anybody. Eileen...I only saw it twice, but the version I recently saw (December 21) included all the scenes you say are new:The hallway scene bet E and H, the bulls and cows....Hmmmm

(Evelyn) but the version I recently saw (December 21) included all the scenes you say are new:The hallway scene bet E and H, the bulls and cows So they were there all along. Thanks.

"Also at the theatre or in the Cally, he would get very friendly with the programme girls or the waitresses and their encounter might end in a playful cuff or a quasi embrace...embarassing, not for him, for he had not the least idea that his antics had anything to do with sex, but for my mother and myself who knew they had". Page 122! Not exactly "fondling" I agree! :-)

thanks, Bethan. So Master Denis/Fraser's recollections of Adam's flirtatious antics have some foundation in reality. Must have forgotten that bit or fell asleep. ;-)

To continue.. (yawn! :-) ). " But such minor irregularities made no dent on the abiding affection between my parents, which must be the root cause of the happy and confident nature of the majority of their children". There's also another comment that his mother tolerated a lot of his father's more irritating habits because the physical side of their marriage was good. Can't find that page! Seems true to the movie.

There's also another comment that his mother tolerated a lot of his father's more irritating habits because the physical side of their marriage was good Now that stuff I remember (couldn't you guess?). Little Denis wrote about when they went upstairs in the afternoon for a slank, that the door would be locked and when they emerged they were rather flushed in appearance. ;-)

Little Denis wrote about when they went upstairs in the afternoon for a slank, that the door would be locked and when they emerged they were rather flushed in appearance. ;-) IMO that was the cutest part of the book. The movie is waaaay better..trust me.

Mixed reactions to Eileens's list: My biggest frustrations upon leaving the theatre was the awareness that there was so much more there than I could possibly absorb in one sitting, and the worry that I might never have another chance... I shared w. Eileen the impression of newness at - The scene in the hallway between Edward and Heloise, when she returns for the curling match (E: "Happy?" H: "Very. Are you?" [or words to that effect]). If it had been there before it completely got by me. But I do remember the others being there, but many details of them being lost in the shuffle. My new favorite line: During the Beethoven's Fifth fishing lesson, when Edward says "...unsuspecting little fishy, hiding in the weeds..." It's the way Colin delivers the line--hilarious. I love that too, but it took three viewings to capture what he'd said. The movie makes alot more sense to me now. This could be due to changes in the video (??), our discussion, or just multiple viewings. It doesn't seem nearly as disjointed as it did on the first go-round. Does anyone else feel the same? Absolutely. But I'm still unclear about what, if anything, was added/ subtracted for the video version. Probably just a byproduct of my terrible memory. Oh, and found another obscure little review at: http://www.metroactive.com/papers/cruz/09.22.99/mylifesofar-9938.html

Have yet to rent the video (maybe today) so I can assure you that all the scenes that are mentioned here are in the theater version. I last saw it after Christmas so those scenes are all still clear in my mind, not an imaginary visual transference. ;-)

(Heide) I last saw it after Christmas... ... And how many times before that? I had but a single viewing to do my comparisons to, and that back in the first week of release... ...but a fleeting glimpse... ;-] KJ

Come to Drool and learn a new word "slank" , thanks Evelyn for completing an innocent's education. Might finally get to see this in the US KJ, but not sure if I can put my ODB thro' renting the vid!!! Actually think he would enjoy it too (well he was very keen to see the Donmar one) so thanks for all the tips.

BTW Evelyn, tell me more about "slanking"!!!

(Lizza)BTW Evelyn, tell me more about "slanking"!!! Me??? I think you're confusing me with Karen....who brought it up. All I said was .."that was the most interesting part of the book." (Alas, they never went into details.

Just saw DQ and loved it. No wonder he chose to do it, it�s exactly his type, and not only as a film but as a view of life, I believe. I�m so happy that Colin has done something that�s worth him for a change (sorry, I sound sour just because right before I watched DQ I saw Hostages and that movie really isn�t one of his best ones.) Anyway, I think everything that Ann has said about DQ is true. Colin looks great in it, very natural and very much like he does in real life, a lot of those familiar smiles and Colinisque gazes. His acting is good because that film allows him to be what he can be at best: true, subtle, innocently funny (and innocently sexy!).

Did you understand the heavy scottish accents in the supporting cast, Elena? I'm worried.

(Evelyn)Did you understand the heavy scottish accents in the supporting cast It really is heavy and it�s not the supporting cast only, it�s everyone except Colin and the Windmill company people. But I suppose it�s much easier to understand for a native English speaker. I like the Scottish accent very much even though I have a hard time with it. I had to rewind a few times just because I didn�t understand the lines first time, and not even the second and the third time, not only because of the accent but because of some of the Scottish(?) phrases that are unfamiliar to me. (Well I did also rewind a few times because Colin is simply breathtaking in many scenes!)

(Elena)It really is heavy and it�s not the supporting cast only, it�s everyone except Colin and the Windmill company people. But I suppose it�s much easier to understand for a native English speaker. That's what you think. I don't ever understand a scottish accent. Missed all of Brodie in the TRT in London..... And if they throw in scottish words to boot.....fergedit! I sincerely hope that some celtic experts around here will do some translating for us.

(Evelyn) That's what you think. I don't ever understand a scottish accent. Missed all of Brodie in the TRT in London.. Ah, but you couldn't rewind that. We'll get through DQ together just as we did Fever Pitch. No syllable will be left unknown.

(Heide) Ah, but you couldn't rewind that. Wot? You don't think Evelyn has memorized the script? ;-)

Donovan Quick is excellent! Elena is right; this part was just made for Colin. The production is top notch and could easily have been a theatrical release. BTW, it has great scoring too. Once in a while, when DQ is revving up for a tilt, you get some Spanish guitar strains in the background. Then it wings along on a Van Morrison song. Terrific. It has dark themes and bit of ugliness, but it's not unnecessary to show the depths of despair of Lucy's character. Colin is...gorgeous, fabulous, gorgeous, perfect, gorgeous. Why don't my bus drivers look like he does? ;-) I saw a lot of Colin's Walker when he first challenges Windmill (pulling the emergency stop on the train and then verbally abusing the company mgt). The dialogue is smart and intelligent. How could anyone not love a movie with this dialogue: Lucy: You must think I'm disgusting DQ: No. No. No. It just wouldn't be right to take advantage of your fragile state. Also I realize that you're spoken for. Lucy: By Clive? That's like saying that the household refrigerator is spoken for. It's just something you use. Something you stuff your salami in. DQ: So why do you let him... Lucy: ...park his salami? ~~~~~~~~ I had to stop the tape with that one and jot it down. ;-)

and someone is going to have to explain the word "slag" to Evelyn. ;-)

I knew you would like it Karen, as I said I think Colin will find he has even more fans after it is shown here, whenever that may be. I really do think he is at his best on the TV screen, and of course, it is good to see him in the starring role. Definitely gorgeous as you say, especially in that grey suit!! "Slag" = "slut", easy, loose woman" !!??

My tape arrived! This is an exciting moment, knowing that I am in for such a treat. Off to see it! :-D BTW, Karen, that dialog had me LOL! Was it an easy delivery for Colin? ;-)

Boo Hoo...my copy hasn't arrived yet.... (Ann)"Slag" = "slut", easy, loose woman" !!?? Thank you Ann...you girls are always looking out for me;-) LOL My dictionary said something to do with a volcano!!!

(AnnW) Definitely gorgeous as you say, especially in that grey suit!! Those flashback suits remind me of ones we've seen him wear to premieres. You know, with the darker shirts. But I liked him in his all-black outfit. *yum yum* Just loved when you could see the shots where those few pics were taken. BTW, we get Donnie in PJs, but not all buttoned up to the top this time. ;-) (Moon) Was it an easy delivery for Colin? ;-) He was the Don at the time. Such things would embarrass him. Wait until you see Lucy the aforementioned slag sing "I Will Survive"!

(Lucy)park his salami? Ach so, it is salami then! I could hardly believe my ears. Everyday British phrases I suppose? (Karen)But I liked him in his all-black outfit. Oh yeah...(I�m drooling....)Actually he looks like a priest and he often behaves like one too, for instance when he looks at Lucy with that silent, almost expressionless compassion. He is a man with a mission. He�s also very thin in DQ, I think I�ve never seen him that slender before and it does suit him. I�ve watched it now enough to have found some things I like less than others and one is the role of Sandy. The performance is fabulous of course and touching at times but somehow I feel funny to be expected to laugh at a "moron" like Clive says. Hm!

Colin looks great in DQ. I agree Elena, I have never seen him that slender before and it does suit him very well indeed! I was always very impatient for Colin to come back on the screen, so that kind of put me off to the other characters. I liked the ending very much and thank everyone who has already seen it for not *spoiling* it eventhough, I had begged for it. :-) The beginning I found awkward and forced. He arrives at their house and he is it seems best friends with Sandy on the first night. Loved the haircut too, longish in the back. Getting back to DQ, I am not sure if it will ever show up in the US. It is for a very select audience and I can understand the problems they are having in selling this film. It is not really geared for the Trainspotting generation.

It is for a very select audience Maybe in the US?? But it�s exactly what Finns love. Realistic, social themes and ordinary ugly people and funny & entertaining, with a positive female survival story. And Scotland is always an extra plus in anything over here. (Moon)The beginning I found awkward and forced. He arrives at their house and he is it seems best friends with Sandy on the first night. I didn�t find it forced, it�s just what happens in farytales! Gorgeous and well-behaving Donovan with his strange ambitions is a fairytaleish element in the lives of the Pannicks. He�s a bit unreal and the P�s surrender to him one after the other, each in their own way.

(Elena)And Scotland is always an extra plus in anything over here. Why Scotland? Their accent is so hard to comprehend.Painful.

Why Scotland? I guess we feel it�s a bit like one of the Nordic countries, especially the Highlands, because of many things. The climate, large inhabited areas, living close to nature, own strange traditions, primitive national pride...! The accent also has a distant ring of the Scandinavian languages, Norwegian especially I think.

Got it yesterday, watched it today. Thanks to all who made that possible (you know who you are). XXOO! (Karen) The production is top notch and could easily have been a theatrical release. Why don't my bus drivers look like he does? ;-) My thoughts, exactly. But I liked him in his all-black outfit. *yum yum* Could his shoulders be any broader? He looks solid and healthy to me. But his IRL habit of wearing the same thing all the time has apparently translated to his character ;-) Your analogy to a priest is interesting, Elena. I knew there was a message behind the black outfit. (Moon) Loved the haircut too, longish in the back. To offset the top...*sob* (Moon)The beginning I found awkward and forced. He arrives at their house and he is it seems best friends with Sandy on the first night. I also felt the same about the beginning (waddaya want, I'm a cynic) but after a bit it all started to click. (Elena) Gorgeous and well-behaving Donovan with his strange ambitions is a fairytaleish element in the lives of the Pannicks Precisely. Didn't you love it when Donovan tells the drunken Lucy that she's beautiful? IMO one of the most well-done aspects of the story was the Lucy-Donovan relationship. She takes the longest to come around. (Moon) I am not sure if it will ever show up in the US. It is for a very select audience and I can understand the problems they are having in selling this film. Didn't Brassed Off play around the art-house circuit? DQ is *much* better. Regardless, I hope it makes it to US cable TV (since networks are spending their money on stellar productions such as Leprechauns and the like). (Evelyn) Their accent is so hard to comprehend. I missed lots of dialogue. "If I told you you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me?" I propose that line be used next time we're in ODB's company :-D Just to see his reaction, of course...

Watched DQ last night and thought it was some of the best acting I�ve ever seen Colin do. Exciting, fresh, didn�t remind me of any of his previous characterizations. The Scottish accents were a pain now and again, but the old rewind button helped. Enjoyed the story line and I definitely will view it again. However, I�m tired of seeing CF get his a-- kicked in his movies! Could someone name one movie where he overcomes his opponent?

At the end of Apartment Zero -- where do you think that corpse came from!

(Eileen) Didn't you love it when Donovan tells the drunken Lucy that she's beautiful? And you just knew he was going to say it, didn't you? ;-) The be-yew-tiful Dulcinea. Could they have found a doggier woman? I doubt it. One of my favs is the DQ: "What do you call this pasta dish?" Lucy: "Macaroni cheese." DQ: (kissing hand) "My compliments to the chef." BTW, weren't you disappointed that it turned out to be Clive? You know which scene I'm referring to. "If I told you you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me?" I was surprised at the universality of that line. Hadn't heard it in ages...eons. ;-) (Jana) I�m tired of seeing CF get his a-- kicked in his movies! But in this one he had to. Old Don Q gets beaten up on a regular basis. Thank goodness, they didn't have him die in the end as he did in the novel.

Closing those italics. :-(

Thank goodness, they didn't have him die in the end as he did in the novel. He died - symbolically, in the spirit.

Yes, I interpreted the ending the same way.

Loved DQ! Agree it's one of CF's best. (Think he actually learned to drive a bus? ;-) Re: Colin's Donovan seeming like Walker -- I didn't see 3DOR, but in the scenes where Donovan is all fired up and talking fast, this is the way I've envisioned Walker to be. (Karen) One of my favs is the DQ: "What do you call this pasta dish?" Lucy: "Macaroni cheese." DQ: (kissing hand) "My compliments to the chef." I loved this, too. After Lucy says "Macaroni cheese," Colin repeats "Macaroni cheese" in the same intonation he uses in P&P2 in his post-swim encounter with Lizzy when he says "Oh yes of course" to her reply that she's staying at the Lambton Inn. Or so it seemed to me. Thought the other actors were marvelous too, esp. Lucy. That scene where she tells Donovan about her past brought me to tears. Re: accents, had no trouble with Lucy, but Clive and Sandy were often tough to follow. Combine the accents with the use of the f-word and that graphic sex scene, and this would seem destined for American cable rather than PBS. (Then again, after Madame Bovary, the sex probably wouldn't faze PBS at all;-) And they could cut out the swears, I suppose.) Was DQ broadcast on "regular TV" in Australia?

(Susan) Combine the accents with the use of the f-word and that graphic sex scene, and this would seem destined for American cable rather than PBS. Our PBS could easily cut out that shooting from the top rumpy pumpy scene. Getting rid of the "fooking" language should also be doable, since DQ is in a foreign language. ;-) As is, it could be broadcast on Bravo (only they have commercials, but so does A&E). In Australia, it was on their PBS-type network, but like in the UK, they show these things. Only in America are we treated like a bunch of babies or Puritans on television. (Susan) but in the scenes where Donovan is all fired up and talking fast, this is the way I've envisioned Walker to be. Yes, particularly when he's lording over the guy in charge of Windmill Transport, Mr. Mackie. Love how "in command" Colin acts throughout. How superior. Definitely built on the foundation of his real life.

DQ is one of those films that get better every time you watch it again, doesn�t it. By now I�m almost in love with it. Colin is such a great Don Quixote, I think he must have read that goddamn book to be able to deliver that crazy character so well. Take that macaroni cheese scene or that "slag" fight with Clive, or the encounter with the bad guys in the bus; he�s just as kind and fierce and totally unrealistic as the original poor DQ. (Susan)Thought the other actors were marvelous too, esp. Lucy. I deeply agree. I think that Clive is a great performance too, maybe the best one. (Susan)where she tells Donovan about her past brought me to tears. The ending brings me to tears, it�s almost painful. I don�t know why really, it is a life-goes-on type of ending after all. But Donovan looks like he�s lost something important and can�t get back to it anymore.

A pause-your-VCRs moment: When Donovan can't get the bus started, he leans his head out of the window and asks Jim if he's going to help. There's a side mirror on the bus. Pause and take a look. *running screaming from the room* ;-)

Waited to read these recent comments until I watched last night for the first time. Did anybody say he was GORGEOUS? ;-) (Karen) I saw a lot of Colin's Walker when he first challenges Windmill Absolutely. He uses his hands a lot for emphasis like Walker. Why don't my bus drivers look like he does? ;-) Truly. How could anyone have gotten on the wrong bus by mistake? Those flashback suits remind me of ones we've seen him wear to premieres. You know, with the darker shirts. And the high buttoned vests. Thought so too. (Moon) I am not sure if it will ever show up in the US I sadly agree with you although some obscure US channels may show it eventually. I can't see it making it to PBS. It's not a period piece and it's not a mystery. It would have to get critical acclaim overseas first to get noticed here. (Moon)The beginning I found awkward and forced. And abrupt. I hadn't really gotten a feeling for the situation and the different roles the family had before Donovan very suddenly showed up. (Eileen) Didn't you love it when Donovan tells the drunken Lucy that she's beautiful? A great scene. She's so beaten down, cynical, and then to be so surprised in that way. I think we see her in profile, sort of shadowy at that moment. "If I told you you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me?" I propose that line be used next time we're in ODB's company :-D I think you've just committed yourself, girl, and I don't mean into the looney bin. (Karen) BTW, weren't you disappointed that it turned out to be Clive? Not really. Such a ridiculous shot. But she would have looked a lot happier if it had been Donovan. When Donovan can't get the bus started, he leans his head out of the window and asks Jim if he's going to help. There's a side mirror on the bus. Pause and take a look. *running screaming from the room* ;-) I know exactly what you mean, honey. And there are a bunch like that too. In particularly like when he and Sandy run through town putting up their flyers. There's one broad grin he gives to an older woman as they're crossing the street. I imagine her not knowing this was being filmed and calling out to him, "Aren't you Mr. Darcy?" ;-) Have seen it just once but will watch again tonight. I obviously have to re-read Don Quixote but some questions/thoughts: I know Quick & Pannick is not a profitable business. In one scene we see Donovan look at his stash of money and we see it's noticably depleted. I thought at first Clive had found it but there is no later evidence of that. So my assumption is this was not only unprofitable but a money-sucking operation. The lapse of time during the film completely eludes me. It is painful to see him beaten again. He lays there offering absolutely no defense. Can not remember from the book if Quixote is as unresistant. Finally, where did he come from? Where did he end up and where was Lucy when she came across him again in the end?

Sorry...fixed.

(Heide) Sorry...fixed. That's OK. You could've done the whole thing in your big red font and we wouldn't mind. (Heide) And there are a bunch like that too. Most were of the wide part variety, but this one was a big old round patch. (Heide) In one scene we see Donovan look at his stash of money and we see it's noticably depleted. He said that, when he escaped the institution, he got a hold of all his liquid assets (cash) before they froze them. We don't know how much it represented, but you can be sure that his cash outlays to fix up that bus would've cost a pretty pence. I'm guessing that the route was not in business long enough to recoup his outlays or that he gave a substantial portion of the receipts to the Pannicks. He would have to pay for his stellar customer service rep and the use of the family's telephone line. I've had a few discussions about the lighting of the film. I don't believe it is the tape. Note the outdoor scenes or the ones in the Windmill offices. I think the use of darkness within the Pannick home was intentional. Haven't a number of people mentioned this is a "dark" show? Initially, I thought they meant it was dismal or cheerless. But now, I think it means the lighting or lack thereof. Colin is often in shadows or illuminated by a single bulb or a crack of light from a window.

Heide. There's one broad grin he gives to an older woman.. I too liked this grin, Heide, a Colin grin I am sure, wish he did it more.

(Elena)DQ is one of those films that get better every time you watch it again, doesn�t it. By now I�m almost in love with it. I agree and have only seen it twice. Despite the fact that I don't get much of the dialogue...esp. Clive and Sandy. Some of Lucy. All of Gran, though;-) Great production and story line. Read the book in the original in college. would swear some of Colin's dialogue comes straight out of the novel. A story of love and all it's complications. I was teary when Donovan asks Lucy :"Why do you let him do that to you"? Her answer about looking for love and affection was heart -wrenching. I bet there was some footage cut out of the beginning, making Donovan's first encounter with Sandy a bit contrived. I like the obscure ending....he does this type of a scene so well...the look on his face mirrors his soul I don't think it will have a life in the US....unless it's a big hit on BBC UK.

(Karen) Most were of the wide part variety, but this one was a big old round patch. LOL at me. I thought you meant how good he looked in the mirror, hence my addition of that beautiful grin in the street. Now I see I should have seen a glaring absence of h***. I shall look for that tonight...if I can bear it. (Ann) I too liked this grin, Heide, a Colin grin I am sure, wish he did it more. You saw it too? I rewound on that one quite a bit last night, she sheepishly admits. Ann, have you watched the whole thing several times? (Karen) Haven't a number of people mentioned this is a "dark" show? Initially, I thought they meant it was dismal or cheerless. I was pleased at how many light moments there were in this film. Having heard how "dark" it was, I was afraid it would be unrelentingly downbeat but there are quite a few laugh-out-loud moments. A relief that there's another meaning to the term "dark" even though making out some scenes was difficult at times. No reflection on the quality of the tape with which I was very pleased.

(Ann) I too liked this grin, Heide, a Colin grin I am sure, wish he did it more. (Heide) You saw it too? How could anyone miss it! I've got that and mirror shot here, but haven't been able to scan today. Hope to post those tomorrow. (Evelyn) Despite the fact that I don't get much of the dialogue I'm understanding more and more. Too bad there wasn't any closed captioning...or any that made it through the conversion process. Also hadn't noticed that Clive watches Donovan help Lucy at the door after she "trips" over loose paving stone. (Evelyn) would swear some of Colin's dialogue comes straight out of the novel. How about "into the belly of the beast"? Doesn't that sound like it might? Anyone know?

Heide, I have seen it twice so far all through, have also fast-forwarded to some really nice bits. The BBC have got a hit on their hands with this so why are they not airing it, it really is a mystery, especially knowing that people want to see CF back on the TV, there have been many letters to this effect to Teletext and Ceefax. My favourite shot of CF is the closing minute of it where he looks over his shoulder and the captions come up, lovely!!

(Karen) BTW, weren't you disappointed that it turned out to be Clive? You know which scene I'm referring to. You know me too well, dearie ;-P (Susan) Re: Colin's Donovan seeming like Walker It's also like Paul (FP) in the kitchen with Sarah. (Elena) But Donovan looks like he�s lost something important and can�t get back to it anymore. Captured completely by Colin's final, over-the-shoulder shot. As Evelyn put it, the look on his face mirrors his soul. (Ann) My favourite shot of CF is the closing minute of it where he looks over his shoulder and the captions come up, lovely!! Mine, too. As did Evelyn, I also liked the obscure ending (never read the book, saw the movie 20+ years ago and only remember shots of big windmills). (Heide) I was pleased at how many light moments there were in this film My favorite would have to be the 'macaroni cheese' line mentioned earlier by Karen, but I also enjoyed seeing Colin singing (another topic--cheerier, too--for a 'how many times?' list). I've only seen it once so far--will watch out for the big grin next time (as well as concentrating more on Clive's dialogue). As for the rear view mirror shot (his h***, Louisa!), I caught this on the first go-round. It's getting more difficult to avoid :-(

Really must compile a list of "Films in which Colin Runs Up/Down Stairs." My personal fav in DQ has to be quick (blink and it's gone) hop up the steps of the bus. Only catch a glimpse from the rear, but.... worth it. ;-)

(Elena) But Donovan looks like he�s lost something important and can�t get back to it anymore. Captured completely by Colin's final, over-the-shoulder shot. As Evelyn put it, the look on his face mirrors his soul. (Ann) My favourite shot of CF is the closing minute of it where he looks over his shoulder and the captions come up, lovely!! Definitely mine as well as the big grin he gives with the two old ladies. I agree Heide, they must have recognized Mr. Darcy. Karen, I too noticed that ... but he does seems to have patches throughout the film. When the light catches them. I thought of Walker too and I was not even there! See how well you all describe ODB. ;-D

(his h***, Louisa!).... It's getting more difficult to avoid :-( ...he does seems to have patches throughout the film. When the light catches them. Three (only three???) cheers for the man who completely lacks vanity.

(Karen)but this one was a big old round patch. (Moon)but he does seems to have patches throughout the film. (Heide)Now I see I should have seen a glaring absence of h***. I know that you�re complaining about his dear patches out of sheer love and tender concern but....again I want to say that I don�t see what�s so terribly wrong about it that a man loses his hair. I find it easy to accept because it�s just a part of masculinity and that�s what I adore in him, among other things. Please feel free to think I�m perverse again but I can even find those patches sexy!! I would honestly like to take a MUCH closer look! ;-D Am I really the only one here who feels this way? He simply isn�t a boy anymore and oooh I like it.

(if they didn't have a budget for a hair wrangler, a can of spray paint is cheap)

That is the grin! Thanks, Karen. The pic in the middle does not look like him. Maybe he caught that patch in the mirror on the first take and could not help but react. ;-) Yes, Elena, we would all like a closer look, and so many of you have had that closer look.

(Moon)so many of you have had that closer look. Oh no no no com�on we have not, I meant MUUUCH closer! I did not see enough! (drool...*hic* sorry I must sound like having had some b-day bubbly :-D) Seriously I did not look at his patch when I met him.

Karen....you "snapppy" pictures are terrific... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ( Elena)Seriously I did not look at his patch when I met him. I looked up at the left ear for the ear-piercing ...;-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Moon) The pic in the middle does not look like him. No, but it *does* look like Tom Jones! Hey, it's not unusual to resemble somebody.;-)

My favorite actor is Colin Firth. He has thinning hair. It has been apparent that his hair has been thinning since P&P at least. That is 6 (count 'em) six years ago! Why is this endlessly being discussed as a new and shocking discovery? IF I HEAR ONE MORE REFERENCE TO "THINNING HAIR" I WILL POST IN ALL CAPS LIKE THIS IN PROTEST UNTIL THE SUBJECT HAS BEEN PUT TO BED -- PERMANENTLY!!! I love you all ... anyway ... honest! 8-) ...KJ

(KJArt)IF I HEAR ONE MORE REFERENCE TO "THINNING HAIR" I WILL POST IN ALL CAPS LIKE THIS IN PROTEST UNTIL THE SUBJECT HAS BEEN PUT TO BED -- PERMANENTLY!!! "Rise Above It". KJ ;-)

Okay...one more reference to "that" topic (craving your indulgence, pl-e-ase!) We should take a leaf out of Helen Fielding's book (literally!) To quote from "The Edge of Reason"...."little kids get one toy that they love more than all the others, and even when its fur has been rubbed off, the little child still thinks it's the most beautiful toy in the world, and can't bear to be parted from it" (Next page) "I stroked his hair, I kissed the bald patch where his fur has been loved off. And I told him what I felt, what I really, really felt." "where his fur had been loved off"...I rather liked this! And final word, thank God he's not vain!

I have this recurring nightmare. That someone has finally convinced CF to visit his sites where fans are discussing his work. What will they be saying about me?, he asks himself. Acting technique? Philosophy behind choices of project. How his agent could better serve him? Nope. You guessed it. I had thought of a great compromise last night. How about creating a new Topic, entitled "His hair, Louisa!!". There, those obsessed with what they see as an increasing problem may remark upon every newly- appearing bare patch, every widening part, every failing Firth follicle, whether it were the North-40 or the South-40 that was defoliating faster, and so on. Other like - minded souls could gather in clots of commiseration -- and it would provide a place to avoid -- a blessed sanctuary from the incessant sobbing -- for those us who have heard enough of the subject to last several lifetimes. That will leave us to discuss more substantive issues like his shoe-size, what kind of fur decorated the hood of his parka, whether the ring were 10- 12- or 14-carat, and so on -- things of importance that have not been covered or settled completely to our satisfaction. That way everybody could be happy. How about it?

I think the ring is 18 carat. And his shoe size 10.5 (US). ;-)

(arami) Three (only three???) cheers for the man who completely lacks vanity. (Elena)...I don�t see what�s so terribly wrong about it that a man loses his hair. I find it easy to accept because it�s just a part of masculinity and that�s what I adore in him, among other things.(Bethan) .."where his fur had been loved off"...I rather liked this! ...And final word, thank God he's not vain! You are all very wise. Like you, I will take him as is. ;-)

So have we heard the last of it now? ;-P

LOL!! KJ The topic is forever going to crop up and we are forever going to moan. Does it make one bit of difference to most of us? No. Noticing new scalp shots is like earning Boy Scout merit badges around here. ;-) Maybe you'd like to design the Follicle badge?

KarenR, thanks for putting humour back into this topic :-)

(Bethan)"where his fur had been loved off"... Thanks Bethan, I also have been thinking about that lovely line today. (Karen)Does it make one bit of difference to most of us? No. I certainly hope so. I�d hate seeing Drool dry up as fast as he�s losing his hair. Shall I be the only one left here in 2010?! And what does a man with such eyes and smile and voice and hands and body do with hair anyway? Nothing! :-)

(Gi)KarenR, thanks for putting humour back into this topic :-) Besides....Our Fearless Leader calls the shots ;-) Let's go back to discussing DQ. Fastly becoming my #2 fave...(and I only get 60% of the dialogue!)

Actually, I think KJ's comments had *me* in stitches. Am trying to coming up with even better trivial pursuits. ;-)

(Moon) The pic in the middle does not look like him. (Mari) No, but it *does* look like Tom Jones! Aha! That's it! Just no throwing your undergarments at him, ladies.

(Karen) Am trying to coming up with even better trivial pursuits. ;-) How many times he changes his clothes (or doesn't)... So what do we think is running through DQ's mind (underneath all that hair) during his last, enigmatic, over-the-shoulder look?

"Thank god this one won't spit at me"?

LOL!

(Eileen)So what do we think is running through DQ's mind (underneath all that hair) during his last,enigmatic, over-the-shoulder look? I find that intense look v. interesting too, Eileen. When I first saw it I thought he really did not remember Lucy or what the H*** she was talking about. "I'm sorry....I caused that trouble"of course makes it plain he does remember. But how much? Maybe he just remembers that he was troublesome, and not the details.He clearly has a different personality now.Will have to confer with son about what type of treatment is involved for behavior mod like this.

It used to be electric shocks in certain parts of the world...

Electroshock, Drugs, Conditioning, whatever, "They" have gotten him back to "Normal" -- he has become what he had originally been -- the Corporate - Takeover - King. He is out in the world doing it all over again. However it was achieved, they had to (re)educate him to the utter righteousness of material gain over the welfare of human beings, (re)condition him to be utterly contemptuous of the "weaknesses" in Donovan, and teach him to feel intense shame at having somehow succumbed to the temptation of the Golden Rule. His new self was released upon the world in the confidence that these proper attitudes had been completely and permanently internalized again ... and they had. Thus his denial at first. Even when finally admitting some connection with those events, they were in the form of an apology for causing "trouble" ... he was mortified at having caused all that "trouble". I'm sure he felt completely justified as he went to catch his train. Only there was a sudden attack of wistfulness from he - knew - not - where that caused him to turn back, and feel a regret for he - knew - not - what, but it wasn't for causing trouble ... but probably for something he felt had been permanently lost like a fading dream, only he couldn't remember...

...he felt had been permanently lost like a fading dream, only he couldn't remember... I think you nailed it, KJ. And have you noticed that even his voice changes as Daniel Green.Has the timbre of the early arrogant Mr. Darcy.

Green? Or Quinn?

Oops....Quinn...(Picky,Picky);-)

Hi folks back again from the world of mundane reality. As regards to how DQ was treated, to transform him back to Daniel Quin there can only be one simple answer, PROZAC. Although I thought prozac was supposed to make people happy, Daniel Quinn did not look very happy to me. I aslo think in the scene at the end of the movie where he apologises to Lucy, he is also letting her know that he is sorry for breaking her heart.

Ooops, Quinn!!!!!!

Reading back over what I wrote (back from the world of mundane reality) Maybe I should get a script for PROZAC.

Great comments, KJ. You put my thoughts on "paper". Maureen, I don't doubt your assessment either. Perhaps our resident health care experts might have more insight. I wouldn't mind a few of those drugs myself some days. I'm not quibbling with the fleeting glimpse we get of Daniel's wife. Would have liked to have seen more of her though, perhaps in the flashbacks. From what little we see of her, she looks sleek, successful, a perfect partner to the man he was. I of course imagine she is the "family" he mentions who first sought his psychiatric care. Would have liked a little more insight into the life he led pre-Donovan.

..., to transform him back to Daniel Quin there can only be one simple answer, PROZAC. Well, actually there are several protocols that could have been used...including shock treatment.Of course, this is a multi-layeredfictional creation, it is not a documentary.Didn't Bethan tell us that the author has written other stories involving mental illness? A traumatic episode doesn't turn someone into a manic depressive. And treatments of any kind does not blank out entire memory. The ending is ambiguous because probably the whole story is improbable. Still it is a brilliant correlation to Don Quijote with a contemporary correlation to current social problems. Heavy agenda.

(Heide) our resident health care experts Oooo, not me; psych's never been my thing. I agree with KJ, though, it really doesn't matter how they got him back to Daniel Quinn. I watched DQ again yesterday. What a wonderful script--no wonder Colin took this project. There's one line (which I didn't write down, so I'm paraphrasing). It comes near the end, when Donovan is 'confessing' his past to Lucy. She brings up Don Quixote. He replies "Don Quixote was mad. When they restored him to sanity, he was nothing."

"Don Quixote was mad. When they restored him to sanity, he was nothing." I rewound that line a couple of times to catch exactly what he said and still am not sure. Think it went like this: "DQ was a great man (or madman)." The rest went as you wrote, Eileen. Do they still use electroshock therapy on people? I too like what KJ wrote. Daniel has been rehabilitated, brought back to "sanity," although I don't think he was unaware of his real self at any time. He would refer to his old life with a sadness.

Do they still use electroshock therapy on people? Son says yes. 1. Used when patient does not respond to chemical treatment. 2. V. expensive. Therefore chem treatments preferred by insurance co. However, neither treatment blanks out memory IRL. Therefore what you say is true, Karen. I don't think he was unaware of his real self at any time. He would refer to his old life with a sadness. He was not unaware of Daniel when he was Donovan. Or of Donovan after he returned to being Daniel. Of course, as I said this is fiction, and the author can do what he wants with the character.

Response 1627 of 1628: KJArt (KJArt) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (15:07) * 5 lines Prozac is mainly for chronic depression, which is not, I think what Donavan was suffering from. I don't know -- he might have been bipolar (manic-depressive) in which case they had probably used lithium (which he has to continue taking). But all these are mood alterers which wouldn't completely do the trick. I truly believed he had to go through intensive "counseling" (read brain-washing) to completely change his reactions to things, his attitudes towards them. He had to be taught to hate and fear....again.

(Evelyn), The ending is ambiguous because probably the whole story is improbable. What if he really did not recognize Lucy at the end but transfered his memory to the woman in the beginning and ended up apologizing to Lucy thinking of the other woman. Or apologizing in general for what he does. (That is one big mea culpa).

The husband of Donna Fairchild, screenwriter of DQ, is a psychiatric nurse. "Taking over the Asylum" which she also wrote (and won a BAFTA) was about mental illness.

transfered his memory to the woman in the beginning and ended up apologizing to Lucy thinking of the other woman. You may have hit the point, I think.

transfered his memory to the woman in the beginning and ended up apologizing to Lucy thinking of the other woman. You mean,Mrs. Sapas, the wife of the man he killed? Well, like I said...anything can happen in fiction.And this is a very probale ending. The dialogue is v. sparse, and ambiguous.We have to rely on his facial expressions which could justify several plausible endings.

Yes, indeed! Isn't it fun that all these questions can be the subject of much discussion?

..Isn't it fun that all these questions can be the subject of much discussion? Indeed,which adds to the intrigue of this film. IMO no other actor could by facial expression alone connote several different endings justifiably than ODB.

Accordingly, in that last shot, he seems to be thinking: "What the hell is she talking about...?" That was my first impression. Any more interpretations? Shall we make a list of possibilities?

..."What the hell is she talking about...?" That belongs to the ending category:He doesn't remember a thing" Which perhaps the author wanted to relate. (Doesn't happen IRL.Amnesia blanks out memory.Treatments don't....they alter behavior.)But this is fiction.(Def. my fave after P&P...written and acted on many levels.)

(Arami)Any more interpretations? "Why won't she let go of me?" Like: I wanted her to think I wasn't Donovan because I was afraid she'd spit on me like the other one, but apparently I couldn't fool her.

"Gosh, I fancy that woman something rotten..."

(Sorry. Couldn't resist it.) :-)

(Jana C)...I'm tired of seeing CF get his a-- kicked in his movies! (Donovan Quick) ...He had to atone, you see... The passive resistance was part of the atonement process, as was the humiliation. Perhaps another way to bring back Daniel was to convinced him that he'd atoned enough, he was free and clear now... Who knows? ..."Don Quixote was a great madman, Lucy. ...When they returned him to sanity, he was nothing." -- [Donovan Quick] It might have been easy to get Daniel back by pointing out to him what an utter failure Donovan was ... a crazy fool who had thrown all that money away on that trash of a family ... and what had it gained them or him? Donovan himself probably believed he was a failure as he was being "recaptured". Daniel could easily despise Donovan and be ashamed of him and of what he'd done. It's understandable that he could put it all behind him. On that station platform you could see how hard that he was concentrating on NOT listening to what Lucy was saying to him. And what Lucy was saying to him was that Donovan had not been a failure. On the contrary, he had made a great positive change in those whose lives he had touched. But Daniel was in a powerful state of Denial ... he must not listen, he would not hear! (Daniel -- Denial ; I love it!) It could be argued that he apologized for making "trouble" to get rid of her (...because that is how he honestly perceived it, had to perceive it ...). But as he walked to the train, what she implied was slowly beginning to register. It was trickling into his consciousness little by little in spite of his denial of it. He began to see what Donovan had meant to these people. Most of the change had happened after he had left, after all. Maybe the "turnaround" in his perception of Donovan ... that he was not utterly insane for harboring such unrealistic notions, that maybe it was Daniel who was a bit contemptible for disbelieving in them ... was reflected by the turnaround and stare after the one who made him see that maybe Donovan wasn't a failure after all! Maybe Donovan hadn't been TOTALLY crazy... If you're the optimistic sort, you could even read into it that the turnaround back to Donovan had slowly and subtly begun in him again too... :-) (Sorry about the essay ... it's only one interpretation after all, I know.)

An important thing to remember is that, when Donovan was hauled away, he thought he'd ruined their lives. The bus service had been taken out of commission by the vandals and Windmill's management had the upperhand; the bus was in need of major repairs and he didn't have the money; Lucy was tossed aside by Clive; and Sandy had been humiliated, lost the love of his life on the bus, and was now injured in the hospital. Donovan felt he was a failure. He had no way of knowing the positive impact he had on them. Daniel Quinn's family and doctors kept the Pannicks away from him in the hospital, so he didn't know. I felt he was trying to ignore Lucy on the platform, not face up to someone whose life he thought he had ruined. He knew who she was.

Thanks KJ. We can always rely on you to go the extra mile on these discussion. If you're the optimistic sort, you could even read into it that the turnaround back to Donovan had slowly and subtly begun in him again too... :-) I'm a believer...and IMO Donovan makes an impact on Daniel too.

Just getting back to Bipola, I do not believe that DQ was suffering Bipola at all. I think he was in some sort of psychosis as a result of deep depression. His depressed induded psychosis would account for the altered state of mind but, all the time he would remeber his history. A person suffreing a severe depression induced psychosis, in most cases, will know what they were about, but at the same time will have an inability to take control of what they are doing. Does that make sense?????? Bipola symptoms can often look similar, however, people suffering regular episodes, or even one severe case, do not usually fully recover. In the beginning of the movie I thought that the prognosis was aimed toward scizophrenia due to the voices he was hearing when in his hospital room listening to the radio. But these thoughts were short lived. BTW Electric shock therapy is illegal in Australia, but I believe every second business person here, is on some form of prozac.

PS if anyone here happens to be a business person from Aus please consider yourselves the first person.

Very funny Maureen, and of course, politically correct. ;-)

ECT (electroconvulsive therapy) is done under general anesthesia and as Evelyn's son says, is performed infrequently in the US these days (interesting that it's illegal in Aus). Over the past 20 years drugs have improved to the point of revolutionizing mental health treatment and would be the first approach. ECTs are not without risk (as is anything done under GA) and are expensive because they need to be done in high tech settings with monitoring, etc. I used to work with an anesthesiologist who called them 'jumpstarts' (if you've ever seen one done, you'll know why). But enough about treatment. IMO Daniel is restored simply...because (same reason Larry goes mad in ATA). Same goes for his diagnosis. (KJArt) On that station platform you could see how hard that he was concentrating on NOT listening to what Lucy was saying to him. And what Lucy was saying to him was that Donovan had not been a failure. On the contrary, he had made a great positive change in those whose lives he had touched. But Daniel was in a powerful state of Denial ... he must not listen, he would not hear! (Daniel -- Denial ; I love it!) Good one, KJ. (I hadn't gotten past the repeated D.Q. use). As Lucy approaches Daniel, the audience is left without a doubt that Daniel has been thoroghly restored. His phone conversation concerns putting someone out of business. Not a trace of Donovan remains--or is there? (Karen) He knew who she was. I agree. (KJ) Maybe the "turnaround" in his perception of Donovan ... that he was not utterly insane for harboring such unrealistic notions, that maybe it was Daniel who was a bit contemptible for disbelieving in them ... was reflected by the turnaround and stare after the one who made him see that maybe Donovan wasn't a failure after all! Maybe Donovan hadn't been TOTALLY crazy... ...maybe Daniel Quinn, like Don Quixote, is nothing.

(Maureen) A person suffreing a severe depression induced psychosis, in most cases, will know what they were about, but at the same time will have an inability to take control of what they are doing. Does that make sense?????? Not really in this case. Donovan cannot be said to not be in control of what he's doing, on the contrary, he takes action every time. But did you notice how, when he gets off the bus in the beginning, he says "In the lion's den", or something to the same effect? And that he used to work for Windmill? So he's not completely "another", and a case might even perhaps be made for his using the Pannicks for his own purposes against the company. This is just another angle, it does not mean I believe this is the right one.

(Gi) And that he used to work for Windmill? How is that possible? Daniel Quinn is a millionaire. Windmill was owned by this Kathleen Gorman (?) person. There are two strange bits: (1) when Mackie asks if he knows him and DQ says "if you met me before, you'd remember" [great line and delivery btw] and (2) at the end, when it looks like Mackie is looking Daniel up in his computer as an employee record. As DQ is a well-known millionaire businessman type, he would be recognizable to the business community, but that last thing is rather strange. Must watch again soon.

Throughout my re-watch last week, I was wondering for whom/what Daniel worked. I thought it was odd that Mackie wouldn't recognize him if they worked for the same company (although it was 'multinational'). Toward the end, it's made clear Daniel works for Windmill. At one point during Donovan's 'confessional', Lucy says 'Windmill?' and he doesn't refute it (I don't recall the exact words). Mackie *is* looking up Daniel's employment record. At the top of the computer screen there's a Windmill logo and it says "personnel" (isn't it wonderful he has such open access, Heide?). Afterward, it made sense--all those comments about "into the belly of the beast," "I knew they'd [Windmill] do this, it's standard procedure," "anything to keep the wheels turning," etc. Who better to know how Windmill works, but him? (Karen) Windmill was owned by this Kathleen Gorman (?) person. Didn't you get a kick out of her giant portrait adorning Mackie's office? It sounds as though Daniel Quinn is in charge of mergers and acquisitions; Windmill's a big corporation, he's well paid.

(Eileen), maybe Daniel Quinn, like Don Quixote, is nothing. Or totally mad. (Karen) Windmill was owned by this Kathleen Gorman (?) person. (Eileen), Didn't you get a kick out of her giant portrait adorning Mackie's office? I thought she was his wife and they used that shot with her picture in Mackie's office as symbol of all he was going against (family too), and therefore making the end more relevant.

You thought Gorman was Daniel's wife? Hmmmm, that would work. I wish we got a clearer shot of the wife being ushered into his room in the hospital. I thought her hair was longer than Kathleen's. Will have to watch again.

Would it be possible that Daniel Quinn's reaction to Sapas' death might have triggered a type of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder?

I was going to take another looksie at the wife too before I posted again because it would fit...sort of. Quinn gives off the air of someone much higher up than a guy in M&A. My feeling was that he was the owner of a big multinational corporation, but that his wife ran the transport company. Perhaps, Windmill started it all (hence his affinity for playing with the train set), but that he had gone on to bigger and better things. (Eileen) I thought it was odd that Mackie wouldn't recognize him if they worked for the same company He looked familiar to him. I would recognize the president of my company in an instant, whereas the chairman of the board, not necessarily...of course, my company was a bit different than the norm.

(Cheryl B) ...Would it be possible that Daniel Quinn's reaction to Sapas' death might have triggered a type of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? That is exactly my take on it. Most people's basic personalities are pretty unchangeable (that's why basing a marriage decision on the expectation of changed behavior is pretty foolish ... that's VERY rare). But though our basic personalities stay pretty much intact, what can be changed is value systems, which are especially heavily influenced by our surrounding society. Religious cults depend on the power of the peer group to totally change people's opinion of what is and is not important. This in turn changes their relationships with the world by changing the things that are and are not valuable. Beliefs are based on what we see as True or Untrue about how the world works. Change in one's perception of even one "fact" within one's system, and that may throw the entire Construct of Truth into doubt, and all Hell breaks loose. We are creatures of habit after all, and are uncomfortable with change. The idea that the world was not the center of the Universe threatened an entire Dogma for the simple reason that if that were not true, then other parts of the Construct could not be taken literally either. When doubt enters the picture, beliefs often exit completely or are distorted, sometimes beyond recognition. Trauma often creates whole new realities in perception. The shock of realizing that his decisions were directly instrumental in murdering another human being shook Daniel's whole Construct of what was and was not true of the world, what was and was not important. His personality did not change -- he was a take-charge, take-risks, do-it-now kind of guy and that transferred intact into his new belief System. It was "What was True" that had changed. Donovan emerged as a new person to act within this new reality. Unfortunately, if the things one believes in don't pan out, then the new belief system is threatened, too. Donovan hadn't had the chance to see if his new value system would bear fruit. The facts at that time appeared just the opposite. Therefore it was easy to influence him to revert to the old familiar world and relationships that were long habit. Just as we have ways to "deprogram" cult members, there are ways to deprogram the need for atonment. That is why the end of this little gem is so deliciously uncertain. There are a multitude of possibilies -- which can become the subject of much discussion! Hee hee! I love to stir up the coals! KJ

Thanks KJ and Cheryl..you keep bringing up new options for the guy's condition. I thought her hair was longer than Kathleen's. And she is younger too.But that giant photo in the Windmill office was there for a purpose. I , too, thought Daniel worked for Windmill.(BTW thank you all for filling me in on bits of the dialogue.)But what about the first scene when some ole guy is getting a commendation in a RR yard? How did that fit in?

Hmmm, they make a point of saying Kathleen Gorman was the founder.... first scene when some ole guy is getting a commendation in a RR yard? How did that fit in? Windmill has just taken over the Port Clyde franchise and is integrating the old transport lines into its system. Old company meet new company's local management (Mackie) to the cheers of the paid crowd.

Another cute touch at the beginning is that the radio call in guy is the director.

OK, Mrs. Gorman is not Daniel's wife. The woman who goes into the hospital room is not her. He confesses to Lucy that he was a business man, a corporate raider type. He talks about "his company." Lucy does say Windmill, but he doesn't acknowledge it in any way. Somehow I just don't see an M&A guy down in the trenches, calling the shots in an operation like the drivers' protest. If he were a big wheel with the company, why didn't anyone recognize him from the newspapers or from Good Morning Scotland?

(Gi) And that he used to work for Windmill? (Karen) How is that possible? Daniel Quinn is a millionaire. /.../ As DQ is a well-known millionaire businessman type, he would be recognizable to the business community, Umm, where does it say Daniel is a millionaire? That bag full of money of Donovan's wasn't several million ... for that he could have bought a whole fleet of new buses. Maybe a couple of hundred thousand at the very most. That is "Liquid assets" of a very well-paid man, but not necessarily a millionaire. (Eileen) Mackie *is* looking up Daniel's employment record. At the top of the computer screen there's a Windmill logo and it says "personnel" Yup. Very illustrative, wouldn't you say? (Karen) If he were a big wheel with the company, why didn't anyone recognize him from the newspapers... Maybe because he wasn't a "big wheel". He had power in the company, there's no doubt about that. But just as in the assistants to the top executives who really do the dirty work for them behind the scenes, he might keep a very low profile because of the nature of what he does -- he is probably a strategist of sorts. He is very well recompensed for his brains and his ruthlessness, but well-known? -- I should think that would be antithical to his success if they saw him coming.... ;-)

(KJ) he might keep a very low profile because of the nature of what he does -- he is probably a strategist of sorts. He is very well recompensed for his brains and his ruthlessness, but well-known? -- I should think that would be antithical to his success if they saw him coming.... ;-) Sorry, but these guys are rarely low profile.

I do not think that DQ worked for Windmill at all. I would say he was more into the mega millions and brokerage side of things. Putting huge deals together, squeezing out the small companies, bullying others to merge or go under, that sort of thing. I think his involvement with Windmill may have been in this sort of capacity.

Your query why wasn't he recognised in Scotland - he worked for the company in Sussex - some 400 miles or so from Glasgow. The boss in Scotland might have recognised him if he appeared in a business suit - but he started off by stopping the train like a vandal.

True, Anne. (Karen), Somehow I just don't see an M&A guy down in the trenches, calling the shots in an operation like the drivers' protest. At one point when Windmill gets two buses on the P&Q route, he comments One in front and one behind as usual it has started. (Something to that affect) He certainly worked for the company. OK, Mrs. Gorman is not Daniel's wife. The woman who goes into the hospital room is not her. We only see from behind, Karen. It would work better for the story if she were. :-) And length of hair is not an issue. We did see Gorman in a flashback, no?

(AnnH) he worked for the company in Sussex - some 400 miles or so from Glasgow. When did they say he was at a company location (or headquarters) in Sussex? I don't recall. At one point, Mrs. Gorman makes a comment about Windmill being a "local" company, which I took as having started up in Scotland. It could however have another meaning having to do with Windmill's swallowing up local companies, giving an illusion of being local. The bothersome point about Daniel working for Windmill is toward the end, when Mackie tells him about Mrs. Gorman's business philosophy. The bit about not only squashing competitors but more importantly they must be seen to fail. If Daniel did indeed work for the company, he would surely know this. No, Moon, it is not her. Gorman is an older woman. You see her at the management meeting. The woman who walks into Daniel's hospital room is younger.

If he didn't work for Windmill...why the comment when he sees the Windmill advert as he gets off the train: "Into the belly of the beast." It connotes some type of familiarity with the firm and its nefarious dealings.. Otherwise, the remark makes no sense.

I never thought Daniel was a millionnaire. Would the owner, or the owner's consort, be the one to decide on local anti-strike attitudes? He would perhaps say "No negotiations with strikers", but decide whether a bus stops or not before the demonstrators? Perhaps not. I think he was definitely an employee, but Mackie did not know him because they probably did not go to the same meetings at headquarters.

Somebody at the top would make the decision to order the trucks on through when confronted by strikers. No lowly director of ops or middle management official is going take the responsibility for an action that would surely result in violence. Daniel was the one who made the decision. He felt the consequences of it personally. He finally saw the human beings involved, rather than the cold impersonal business he had tended, the balance sheets, the pro formas, etc. And...I have given up on his being married to Gorman. ;-) Into the belly of the beast? Well, he specifically came to Port Clyde to take on Windmill, having heard (on the radio) how that company had taken over a new franchise and was characteristically ignoring its ridership, the little people.

Karen, I too thought Daniel might be an independent corporate-consultant-raider type (like Harrison Ford's character in Working Girl) but how would that explain his Windmill personnel record? Whereas I agree that Lucy's 'Windmill?' question was ambiguous, that computer screen clinched it for me. I agree with KJArt and Gi here. And I agree with Karen that Kathleen Gorman is not Daniel's wife. Sorry Moon. Definitely not, but that would have been interesting plot-wise. I missed that reference to his working for the company in Sussex, Anne. Can you tell us approximately when it comes up? I still can't understand some of the dialogue, but thought I caught most of Colin's.

I know, there's no getting around that computer screen! It just seems too implausible for him to be a mere employee, handing out briefcases full of cash, no matter what rank. Works better in my mind if he's a hotshot businesman and an owner of a similar type business. That's it. I'm done. :-)

And I agree with Karen that Kathleen Gorman is not Daniel's wife. Sorry Moon. Definitely not, but that would have been interesting plot-wise. Too bad, it would have created more tension. I do feel that he is somehow related Mrs. Gorman. Is it just me? Why would the "family" care to get him into a mental institution to rehabilitate him unless he were related to the company? He does go back to the same job. He is definitely not an ordinary executive. Why is he not tried in court for the death of Mr. Salas(?) it was manslaughter and he gave the order. He was rich and liquidated whatever assets he was able to in a short time he probably had lots more tied up. But he just wanted to get away quickly. (Mr. Quick all the way) ;-))

(Moon) Why would the "family" care to get him into a mental institution to rehabilitate him unless he were related to the company? Because he's giving away all their money?!

(Eileen),Because he's giving away all their money?! It is his money. Otherwise they can add robbery to the manslaughter charge.

(Moon) It is his money. Otherwise they can add robbery to the manslaughter charge. It was an accident, your honor--and besides, we've already entered the insanity plea. (Sorry, Moon I just had to do that) :-)

(Moon) He was rich and liquidated whatever assets he was able to in a short time Yes, let's see. I tiptoe out of a mental facility, go to the nearest ATM, and fill up my bag with cash. No, the cash was strapped. He withdrew whatever was in a deposit type of account. Seems like a lot to have in that form.

One of the flashbacks where South of England and I am sure Brighton was mentioned which of course is in Sussex - Windmill was all over the country - i.e. like Virgin transport, I travelled a lot on trains when I was last in England and felt much the same way as D.Q. I am watching it again with three firth friends on Saturday so I will ask each one of them to look out for it.

LOL, Jana! The trial continues. (Karen), Yes, let's see. I tiptoe out of a mental facility, go to the nearest ATM, and fill up my bag with cash. He does not start out in the mental asylum, he ends up there. No, the cash was strapped. He withdrew whatever was in a deposit type of account. Seems like a lot to have in that form. In Europe people have large bank accounts. They are not as used to morgaging everything they own as they do in the States. It is his money. Would they let him resume his job if he had also stolen their money? Only if he were related to them and therefore it is his money too. :-)

Stolen? No one said or implied he had stolen their money. I just mean it seemed a lot of money to have in a plain deposit account. I would think it was invested or in a time deposit account, if anything. Donovan told Lucy he was in a very nice facility, not a mental asylum.

(Moon) It is his money If my hubby became depressed and suddenly began giving out 'our' money to strangers, I would be hard pressed to ignore such abberrant behavior and would see to it that he got some help. I interpret "family" in the literal sense--Daniel's family (wife), not Windmill, had him 'sectioned.' I don't know much about commitment laws in Scotland, but would find it very unusual that an employer had the ability to section someone.

As we watched the tv show the other night, my friend said "*That's* Colin fFirth!*"

Hi - can I add my two cents re DQ ? I've been catching up on the posts and regarding the scene where Mackie asks Daniel if they had met before, I thought Daniel's answer was a sly way of saying, "You're too low in the food chain to have ever traveled in my circle. Maybe you saw my picture in the company annual report, but you have never met me. Otherwise, you'd know it because I was a mean son-of-a-bitch and would have had you for breakfast." Yeah, I thought Daniel worked for Windmill at the very senior executive level, maybe even a right-hand person to Mrs. Gorman. When he had the last meeting with Mackie, where Mackie said that the local companies must appear to fail, I truly expected Daniel to say something like, "Yeah, I taught her that." I thought he had that look in his face (will have to rewatch, maybe just my imagination). And what a pleasure to hear his real speaking voice again. Any chance that this will have a theatrical release in the US? I think it was that good. And what a nice change to see Colin in a movie that seems to stand on its own merits, not merely carried by Colin. That's it!

Hi Donna! Nice to see you here. Of course you may add your two cents. :-) Glad you agree that Donovan acted like a person very high up. About DQ's future, I've just posted something on 129. However, there's no chance of theatrical. Strictly television, but they're running into resistance here because of to the accent.

(Karen)Glad you agree that Donovan acted like a person very high up I agree as well. Though not the owner of the company. And the money is his, not Windmill's - but it is his wife's too. Although the money he offered to Mrs. Salas could be the company's.

The money would be his. He felt "personal" remorse and responsibility for having ordered the aggressive action. No company is going to cut an expense check for that...unless a court so ordered, following a civil trial. Any payment by the company could be taken as an admission of legal liaibility.

As we watched the tv show the other night, my friend said "*That's* Colin fFirth!*" Terry, congratulations on keeping such commendable company! :-)

(Donna DL) Yeah, I thought Daniel worked for Windmill at the very senior executive level, maybe even a right-hand person to Mrs. Gorman. ...But in Southern UK. I remember his mentioning take-overs and tactics and he used English areas as examples. I do remember Sussex being mentioned. After my having rewatched the end, I think you've got a very good handle on the situation . With that interpretation I can easily go along with it. (Karen) Glad you agree that Donovan acted like a person very high up ...And glad you agree "the Beast" was his very own Windmill Transport company. (Karen) About DQ's future, I've just posted something on 129. However, there's no chance of theatrical. Strictly television, but they're running into resistance here because of to the accent. And no wonder... Hate to sound like a wet blanket here, [as I have only seen it in its entirelty one and a half times] But my initial reaction after the first viewing was extreme disappointment. After having heard all the praises heaped upon it, I was prepared for an excellent presentation, but I came away rather bitter because my impression was that despite the excellent performance by ODB that I had missed 85% of the dialog and was totally at sea most of the time as far as the Pannick family was concerned. I didn't stop and rewind during any of it, mind you, but took it straight as it came as if a broadcast on my local PBS station. I could recognize the quality of the production, the excellence of the acting by most of the characters, and I knew with careful replay and persistence that I would "get" most of it, but I was trying to watch it from the point of view of the one-time viewer. From that point of view, in the U.S.it would probably not even be watched to the end by many viewers because of the level of frustration in my inability to comprehend what the h*** was being said. Personally, I can see that (like FP) it will probably come to be one of my favorite performances of his, but many people won't take the opportunity to record and re-view it, as I am privileged to do. For them, it will probably be a reaction of: "What we have here is a failure to communicate." I hope I am wrong, however. Maybe I am especially handicapped in the comprehension of dialects. I certainly hope so! :-) (Bethan --in 129): RE. the Scottish accent in DQ...didn't the mega successful "Trainspotting" have subtitles? Now you're talking!! KJ

I understood most of the dialogue in DQ. Of course, there are lost words/phrases here and there, particularly with Clive. Even if I couldn't understand the exact words, I thought I caught the gist of what was being said. IMO there's alot less slang used in DQ than in FP. I was confused about who was who during the frenetic introduction to the Pannick household--on second viewing I caught on that it was the previous boarder leaving in a huff because Sandy's trains kept him up at night. Didn't you love Gran? "Quick and Pannick Bus Service...HOW may I help YOU?"

WELCOME DONNAStick around.... (Eileen)..IMO there's a lot less slang used in DQ than in FP. I didn't understand it either, til I got the screenplay .Then I wondered why I bothered;-) On the other hand, this production even with the accent problem, is definitely worth the effort. And I'm slowly understanding the dialogue. So far I'm a six-timer

I find the most difficult parts to understand were Lucy and Sandy's conversation while they walk across the pedestrian bridge (near the beginning--the one that ends when she asks him to meet her by the clock) and any conversation between Lucy and Clive. The shrillness of Lucy's raised voice is akin to nails scratching a blackboard. *shiver*

Months ago, we read about Colin cracking an "end of scene party" joke. Now, after seeing DQ, I couldn't recall which scene and just found the answer at (in?) Karen's Bucket: Firth is unwinding in a rather fancy Japanese restaurant following a hot afternoon in the central Glasgow studio. Director David Blair, who collaborated with Franceschild on her two previous hits, has been driving him and Brown hard in a scene where they return home defiantly singing "We Shall Not Be Moved" after a punishing day battling Windmill buses. When Blair finally says he�s happy after numerous takes, Firth jokily asks: "Shall we have an end-of-scene party?" (from the post-Irish film festival review)

Men like this film - that is important. My husband and a good friend have watched and my did they get involved. For myself I loved the reality of it - it was like it was being acted it was like it was a real happening - I love that sort of thing, you become involved its not like Sylvester Stylone - always over the top, I know this probably controversial - but surely that was what made Pride and Prejudice different in the Colin Firth version - ever see Laurence Olivier in it - it was way of the top and rather silly. You believed in Lizzy and Darcy. In D.Q. much the same happens and Lucy was absolutely brilliant so was the Gran who is a famous character actor seen often on T.V. in U.K. and Oz. No this film was brilliant but I fear not for the young masses.

correction not being acted but a real happening.

I absolutely agree with everything you have said Anne, especially the bit about believing in CF's & JE's Darcy & Lizzie.

(Anne)...absolutely brilliant so was the Gran who is a famous character actor seen often on T.V. in U.K. and Oz. The wonderful Liz Smith, she was also in "Apartment Zero".

Yes Gran is often seen here - she is in the new Oliver Twist too to be shown next week on our ABC. I saw Donovan Quick again last Friday with three firth friends - I understood most of it. I anyone wants any help I would be only to happy to oblige - write to me at ommin@icenet.com.au

What did you other firth friends think of it Anne?

(Anne H)I saw Donovan Quick again last Friday with three firth friends - I understood most of it. I envy you. I also want to know what your friends thought of it. I tend to go with the theory that Daniel worked for Windmill. If he didn't there are too many clues left out there hanging.But I'm still confused about Kathleen Gorman, ...the board meeting, the large photo in the office...all incidental? I like the way women are protrayed in this film, BTW.

A woman wrote DQ. (not incidental btw) ;-) What do you find confusing about Kathleen Gorman?

What do you find confusing about Kathleen Gorman? IMO there is more to her presence in the story than I'm seeing. More than just the ruthless director of the board. We eliminated the theory that she's Daniel's wife.Why does she surface so often?

My three friends loved D.Q. none of us had any trouble understanding the accent - perhaps it is easier for Aussies than in the U.S. because we have lots of programmes from Scotland on our T.V.s and of course our ABC only puts Aussie and British programmes on - very very rarely an American one - in fact I can't think of one. I really rate this one of his very best - the reality of the dialogue made you believe you were watching something real. Yes he did work for Windmill - in the top echelons of power - maybe related to Gorman. Which was why he was back with them - although I sense on probation!

(Anne) very very rarely an American one - in fact I can't think of one. Wot, no Leprechauns? Perhaps, if you're very lucky, you'll be treated to a week-long broadcast of The Tenth Kingdom. Camryn Manheim as Snow White should not be missed (hold on a minute while I lose my breakfast). (Evelyn) IMO there is more to her presence in the story than I'm seeing. An interesting question. Agree that the overlarge portrait was sending a message of some sort: how much the big corporate muckety-mucks are to be revered? Rank has power? Her character also illustrates the great dichotomy between a company's internal image (can't remember the rah-rah slogan used in that video) and how it really operates--crushing the competition with ruthlessness, dirty tricks, etc. Gorman endorsed the former, while Daniel knew the real slogan: keep the wheels turning, at all costs.

Sorry to be so late on this DQ discussion. I'll try not to repeat too much of what others have written. Overall, I liked the film, and actually had little trouble with the accents. I even understood Clive most of the time.;-) Watching a conversion, you do lose sound quality. Good script, engaging story, very good acting all the way around, especially by the woman who played Lucy. RE: Kathleen Gorman. I think her purpose was to be the embodiment of "evil"--the personification of Windmill's philosophy of (paraphrasing here) not just beating the competition, but showing them to fail. Also, I think it was more than a coincidence that she resembled Margaret Thatcher just a bit. I do think that the film was rather simplistic in how it drew the "good guys" vs. the "bad guys." I was waiting for Margaret Hamilton to fly in on her broom.;-) In real life, of course, things are rarely this black and white, and reputable companies succeed primarily through merit and smart management, not by humiliating/carrying out vendettas against the competition. I prefer films that maintain more gray areas--those are the most interesting to me in terms of presenting moral dilemmas. The deck was far too stacked in this one, IMO. Still, lots of positives here, CF did a good job and looked great, and it's always nice to see him in a contemporary role.

(Mari)In real life, of course, things are rarely this black and white, and reputable companies succeed primarily through merit and smartmanagement, not by humiliating/carrying out vendettas against the competition. Thanks Mari, good insight. But we know this was not a documentary..fiction all the way. Even his medical condition and reactions.I thought the adaptation to Don Q. was the cleverest part.Still wonder about Kathleen Gorman though..I think she is more than symbolic.

(Mari) I think it was more than a coincidence that she resembled Margaret Thatcher just a bit. Excellent observation. I think you've nailed Gorman's purpose to show the effects of Thatcherite policies. Didn't she start the privitization movement? What was she called, "the Iron something"?

"the iron lady"! - kept a very tight ship, very singled minded, nobody else's opinion seemed to matter, her downfall I think.

...I think you've nailed Gorman's purpose to show the effects of Thatcherite policies. Didn't she start the privitization movement? "Privatization" was mentioned in Mackie's office with Donovan. "The evils of privatization"...aha...good subtitle to DQ. The large photo of Gorman in the office could emblematic to a Thatcher-like satire of Tory politicians' adulation to her policies. Board of Directors meeting(Cabinet meetings) and video of her speech (before Parliament).....hey, we've got it.Thanks Mari...you ignited the spark.

Could someone explain a bit more about privatization--specifically, would a sole company, in this case Windmill, have been awarded an exclusive contract to operate in a given area? In other words, is it a monopoly, or is it possible for a competitor (Q&P) to legally operate in that area? Some other questions: assuming that Daniel had worked for Windmill (and I think it's pretty clear he did), why wouldn't Donovan have known that Windmill was technically meeting its requirement to run that route 4 times per day? He seems to remeber everything else. Also, why wouldn't Daniel have been charged in Mr. Sapas's (sp?) death? Is anyone familiar with the "sectioning" laws in Scotland? How could Daniel have been committed? Here, you'd have to prove that the peson was a physical danger to himself or others. One more, and then I promise I'll stop for now;-) If Donovan's purpose was to restore realistic bus service to the route, why didn't he quit after Windmill added their own buses according to his time schedule? I'd have thought he would have moved on to the next area needing his "help."

"Privatization" means taking government-owned and operated businesses out of the public sector. Competititive market forces would govern who operated where under general guidelines, as we have for the telcos and utilities. You know, used to be that our municipal govt owned and operated the garbage trucks. Now, it is done by private companies under contracts awarded through supposedly competitive means. (Mari) Also, why wouldn't Daniel have been charged in Mr. Sapas's (sp?) death? Here's where we need Kate, Drool's resident legal expert. I'm guessing the laws are significantly different between the US and UK. Is there a huge ambulance-chasing contingent because it may not be a criminal. I'll see if I can raise Kate over at ROP. I'd bet she watched it as she's back in Australia now. why didn't he quit after Windmill added their own buses according to his time schedule? My own opinion is that he knew they wouldn't continue it. Windmill would revert to form and abandon the route.

(Mari), why didn't he quit after Windmill added their own buses according to his time schedule? (Karen), My own opinion is that he knew they wouldn't continue it. Windmill would revert to form and abandon the route. I agree, Karen. That was the madening part. Mari, I too wondered why he was not charged with manslaughter. It was a big miss in the script. I have come up with the reason why he was re-hired at the end...Too handsome to not have around. ;-)

(Karen) Now, it is done by private companies under contracts awarded through supposedly competitive means. Yes, lots of examples. Our DMV here just went private (to much improvement, I might add). I am still wondering whether competition was allowed once the contracts were awarded in the case that DQ illustrates. Probably, or else Windmill would have had an easy legal remedy to stop Q&P. Thanks for checking with your legal source about the wrongful death (also ask her about the sectioning rules;-) (Moon) I have come up with the reason why he was re-hired at the end...Too handsome to not have around. ;-) Hee, hee. I'm with you, Moon. One could overlook an awful lot while looking over DQ!;-) So he had a few lapses in judgement. So what. Picky, picky, picky . . .;-)

The garbage collection example was poor. Huge sectors of the economy were taken totally private. I'm no expert, but this involved many of the "Bs"--BT, BP, BA (British Telecom, Petroleum, Airlines, etc.), ownership of water and transport, airports, utilities, etc. Think of it on the scale of the breakup of Bell and banking deregulation. When these industries were taken private, they were definitely open to competition from anyone. But the government always sets minimum levels of service that must be provided. manslaughter/wrongful death Since Daniel wasn't driving, I don't think it can be manslaughter. DQ made certain decisions and set a policy in action. There could be a civil case against the company in *this* country, especially because of his trying to clear his conscience with the money. That in effect could be taken as liability for the man's death. I'll see what I can do about raising Kate (or Myretta, if you are reading, can you contact her?)

The privatisation process in transport involved bids from different companies for certain sections of the rail network and the bus networks. Once a company was awarded a franchise, it got to operate there in a monopoly situation, regulated by a goivernment watchdog, who could step in and fine it for poor service or ultimately award the contract to another interested party. The utility & transport companies were the biggest privatisations (the airlines having happened years before). I was going to say: it is highly likely that Mrs Thatcher would be referred to by an anti-privatisation writer (as openly as legally possible) so without having seen DQ, I'm sure that Mari is right and that Mrs G is a thinly-veiled Mrs T figure.

Thank, Mark. So maybe the garbage one wasn't so bad. ;-) No competition allowed? Strange then that DQ's startup bus company was allowed to operate within Windmill's territory. DQ also relates Windmill's past history of swallowing up the competition in other areas of Britain; that's when he mentions their tactics in the Midlands and Brighton, etc. Windmill not only had the buses, but also trains.

A little research on the web: The Mental Health Act 1983 governs the admission of people to psychiatric hospital against their will, their rights while detained, discharge from hospital, and aftercare. The Act applies in England and Wales. The Mental Health Act 1983 is, like any other Act of Parliament, divided into Sections. This has coined the term "being sectioned" to mean being compulsorily admitted to hospital. Section 1 attempts to provide a legal [rather than a medical] definition of the types of mental health problems the Mental Health Act is intended to cover. It gives a definition of Mental Disorder, which - for the purposes of the Act - is then split into 4 types: Severe Mental Impairment, Mental Impairment, Psychopathic Disorder, and Mental Illness. Section 2 provides the authority for someone to be detained in hospital for assessment for up to 28 days. The grounds for the Application, as stated in the Act, are that the person: is suffering from mental disorder of a nature or degree which warrants the detention of the patient in a hospital for assessment (or for assessment followed by medical treatment) for at least a limited period; and he ought to be so detained in the interests of his own health or safety or with a view to the protection of other persons. Section 3 provides the authority for someone to be detained in hospital for treatment for up to 6 months. Sections 18 and 21 - Unauthorised Absence: Being Absent Without Leave, and Returning A person who is liable to be detained in hospital under the Act is absent without leave if he/she: . goes away from the hospital without leave being granted under Section 17 . fails to return when a period of authorised leave comes to an end, or when recalled from authorised leave . goes away from a place where he/she is required to reside as part of the conditions for authorised leave A person who is detained for treatment, or subject to Guardianship, and is absent without leave, can be taken into custody and returned at any time up to the later of: . six months from the date he/she went absent . the expiry date of the current Section / Guardianship order Read all about it: http://www.hyperguide.co.uk/mha/#cont

Here's another good one and easy to read: http://www.mha.inuk.com/

Thanks Karen. At the end Lucy tells Daniel/Donovan: "It hasn't been that long..." and she mentions that Sandy and "Sweetie Pie have been married six months... .... returned at any time up to the later of: six months from the date he/she went absent So Daniel must just have been released.

(Mark) Once a company was awarded a franchise, it got to operate there in a monopoly situation, regulated by a government watchdog, who could step in and fine it for poor service or ultimately award the contract to another interested party. Thanks, Mark, that answers my questions. About what year did this privatization of the railways and buses take place? Early '80s? (Karen) No competition allowed? Strange then that DQ's startup bus company was allowed to operate within Windmill's territory. DQ also relates Windmill's past history of swallowing up the competition in other areas of Britain; Exactly, Karen, neither of those plot points make sense, given the fact that they were monopolies, and that the franchises were awarded by the government through a fair and square bidding process--not through unregulated gobbling up of the previous operators. I guess this is what I meant yesterday when I wrote that the film stacks the deck in favor of the point it is trying to make. The term 'revisionist history' comes to mind.;-) Obviously this makes for better dramatic tension--good guys vs. bad guys, David vs. Goliath. And I suppose if they didn't show Q&P as competing against Windmill, and if they didn't paint Windmill as totally ruthless, they wouldn't have a movie. Or at least not this movie. Gray areas are *so* boring.;-) ;-) Thanks, Karen, for the info on sectioning. Great research. I want to give those sites a closer look because I find the subject fascinating, but at first blush it appears that the UK laws are similar to ours (actually, the other way around--much of U.S. law is taken directly from our English founders). In other words, it appears that a person could only be involuntarily committed if an inpatient setting were deemed necessary for assessment AND the person is a danger to himself or others. Daniel wasn't dangerous, and your relatives can't put you away for giving away your money. We had a case here recently involving one of the duPont heirs--he was giving away all his fortune to a cult. The family was able to have a financial guardian appointed (sort of like a conservatorship), but tossing him into a mental hospital? No way.

BTW, I don't mean to sound so down on the film. As a fable, I think it works wonderfully, and is at its best when dealing with the human relationships--primarily the way in which DQ is able to foster a feeling of self-worth in these people, playing to their strengths and helping them find a measure of self-respect. (Karen) There could be a civil case against the company in *this* country, especially because of his trying to clear his conscience with the money. I think there would be both criminal liability on Donovan's part and possibly the company's as well, in addition to civil damages for lost wages. This man had young children; his widow would easily be awarded an amount equal to his projected wages for the rest of his presumed working life. Obviously, I wouldn't expect the film to deal with this latter point, but it really should have dealt with the former, i.e., culpability for the man's death. Forget sectioning; that's jail time.

(Mari)I guess this is what I meant yesterday when I wrote that the film stacks the deck in favor of the point it is trying to make. The term 'revisionist history' comes to mind.; But this is not a docu-drama like "Tumbledown" or "Hostages"...this is fiction. Like, "not in real life".It is a very political film however, and like all films with a pre-set agenda, it exaggerates some scenarios to make a point. I can see why he had to make this film.It personifies his philosophy . In many ways, by being a "passionate crusader", as they author says, ODB is a Don Quijote.

We don't know the actual circumstances of the death. There could have been some sort of restraint barrier set up manned by police which the man violated and ran into the path of a moving bus. I believe it was referred to as an "accident" and the victim himself could have been declared partially liable. (Not to mention paid "witnesses"). We also don't know the time frame. Such an inquiry and court appearance and decision could already have been made, simply not referred to in the plot. When Daniel started to crack relative to the other events was not made clear... he may have reacted to a sense of injustice in the court findings or knew of dirty tricks used to keep the company from appearing liable. The thing with fiction is that you can manipulate the events to suit your premise...

(Mari) if they didn't paint Windmill as totally ruthless, they wouldn't have a movie. Or at least not this movie. Gray areas are *so* boring.;-) ;-) Did you voice this same criticism for The Insider? ;-) (Mari) much of U.S. law is taken directly from our English founders Not sure about this especially as it relates to civil liberties types of things? US law's foundation would be the Bill of Rights, which exists in no form in the UK. But before I put my foot firmly in my mouth, I have emailed our former resident barrister Kate. (Mari) Daniel wasn't dangerous, and your relatives can't put you away for giving away your money True, he can't be *put away* for that reason, but he could be put under observation for 72 hrs. If he left the facility and then went on to cause *trouble* demonstrating that he was delusional, then they could convince the authorities to keep him there for treatment. Here's a definition: The grounds for the Application, as stated in the Act, are that the person: is suffering from mental disorder of a nature or degree which warrants the detention of the patient in a hospital for assessment (or for assessment followed by medical treatment) for at least a limited period; and he ought to be so detained in the interests of his own health or safety or with a view to the protection of other persons. Another from the Dept of Health, although not legally binding: Mental Illness means an illness having one or more of the following characteristics: - more than temporary impairment of intellectual functions shown by a failure of memory, orientation, comprehension or learning capacity; - more than temporary alteration of mood of such degree as to give rise to the patient having a delusional appraisal of his situation, his past or his future, or that of others or to the lack of any appraisal; -delusional beliefs, persecutory, jealous or grandiose; -abnormal perceptions associated with delusional misinterpretation of events; thinking so disordered as to prevent the patient making a reasonable appraisal of his situation or having reasonable communication with others. ~~~~~~~~ Seems broad enough to me. (Mari) both criminal liability on Donovan's part and possibly the company's as well, in addition to civil damages We, the jury, find for the defendent. We aren't given enough information to determine what Daniel's real role was and what occurred at the scene of the "accident." Daniel was a big time exec, but he wouldn't have said "run them over." He probably felt enormous guilt that a program he was associated with had resulted in a man's death. Could the company face criminal charges? Was there intent? Or was there some form of reckless endangerment or negligent action on their part? I don't know. The civil action would seem more likely to me, although when I did a search under "wrongful death," lots came up in the US, but nothing in the UK. If Mrs. Sapas sued the company, Daniel's offer of cash is very bad. However, the company's defense would be that Daniel was nuts. ;-)

Once a company was awarded a franchise, it got to operate there in a monopoly situation Sorry, old chap, I think you're possibly a bit off the Mark here... ;-) As far as I remember, there were no franchises in case of the buses. I can't speak for trains (the basis of operating is different, of course, though I believe they are similar in principle), but the interested private bus companies are free to run service along any separate line (route) at any time they choose, provided they register the details with the traffic authorities, subject to two weeks notice. That's it. No bidding (that happened only once in the beginning) and especially no franchises; what matters is the competition and profit. If there is only one company running a service, they can pretty near hold the public to ransom. They can withdraw a service if there are no profits - whilst in the "old times", a public company would run buses with the community in mind (the profitable routes would be used to cross-subsidise the less profitable ones: that was a huge part of the basis of an evenly balanced, integrated public transport for about 80 years: this is now disallowed.) And there is no monopoly s such: as long as you are a private enterprise, hold the requisite licence and (most importantly!) chase profits to death (often literally, too, as in DQ's case), you are allowed to run a public bus service. In larger towns and cities, there may be buses belonging to several different companies all running along the same route. The "one in front and one behind" squeezing manoeuvre is a classic in that situation. Buying out - big fish swallowing small fry instead of coexisting peacefully - is another. The buses were initially privatized in 1986, but the real misery started a few years later when local authorities were ordered to sell their interest in the companies. Lots of people lost jobs, but most significantly, the courteous, reliable, affordable communal transport has effectively started to disintegrate.

Oh, and perhaps I should add, by way of illustration, that there are villages within a relatively small radius of important regional towns where the bus service frequency is once or twice a week... And some places have no public transport at all. At the same time traffic congestion is growing. chase profits to death (... as in DQ's case) I mean the fatal accident which had such an effect on Daniel.

(Mari), is at its best when dealing with the human relationships--primarily the way in which DQ is able to foster a feeling of self-worth in these people, playing to their strengths and helping them find a measure of self-respect. That, is closer to the book. In the book, Don Q is a baffoon, and draws a thin line between madness and his actions. Quick's madness or mental illness is not really apparent, Sandy is mentally ill as is the old aunt. Thanks Karen for all the info. So everyone thinks he was either under house surveillance or at an asylum and on some treatment? I did not get that. I thought he was living at home, going to work, till he saw Mrs. Salas to offer her his money and when she did not accept it, he decided to do some good with it. That it ended up being against Windmill was just by chance. In a sense, Lucy was a victim as Mrs. Salas had been at the hands of Windmill. He needed to correct it, for his own sanity. ;-)

(Karen) Did you voice this same criticism for The Insider? ;-) Clearly, that film was told from Wigand and Bergman's point of view, which I don't have a problem with. Having a point of view and creating a premise that could not exist are two different things. However, given Arami's post it may be a moot point. If there is no monopoly and competition is allowed, then the film is accurate on those points. (Arami, thanks for the details.) And I thought Russell Crowe was great.;-) RE: Daniel's role in the "accident"--DQ tells Lucy that "Daniel Quinn ordered the working drivers not to stop, and they didn't." He gave the order, so IMO he could be held responsible for the death even though he wasn't actually driving the bus. I believe he even tells Lucy that he is responsible. RE: Having him committed-- He tells Lucy that he tried to compensate the widow, then he tried giving away money to the downtrodden, then his family "had to do something" so they went to a solicitor and had him sectioned--committed to a "nice loony bin" where they set out to cure his hypomania. That doesn't sound like a short-term observation period to me, and neither does it sound as though he were a danger to anyone. So their ability to section him still seems shaky to me, but I'd be interested to hear what Kate comes up with. Now I have a really important question: When Donovan pours his heart out to Lucy after being beaten by Clive, and they start kissing, and then the scene changes . . .did they . . .umm . . .are we dealing with another moss loft situation here?;-)

Arami, Thanks for putting me straight. I admit I was majoring on the train situation, and guessing the buses would be the same. Here in London, I still believe that at the beginning (mid-80s) certain routes were "awarded" to certain companies.

The research embarked upon by those posting on this board is admirable, and from the standpoint of wanting to know the particulars can be called useful. I think, however, it is not germaine to the understanding or appreciation of the film "Donovan Quick". As has been noted it is fable, and is best accepted on those terms. The "Don Quioxte" parallel works much as the genre of science fiction worked as allegory to the social concerns of the 1950's and 1960's; affording the writer or filmmaker the luxoury of exploring the truth without muddling it with the facts. Quite simply, too much everyday minutiue obscures the story. "Donovan Quick" addresses the absurdity of what is condoned as socially acceptable behavior. Why is it considered aberrant for Daniel Quinn to give his money to street people -- there is no justifiable reason. It is his money and he should have the right to dispose of it as he sees fit. If by giving away what he views as his ill gotten gains, he salves his conscience, why not so be it? What is viewed as socially unacceptable is his mode of doing it -- giving the money personally to destitute individuals. Whereas, if Quinn had created a foundation named for Sapas to help the needy, that would have been lauded. The film reminds me of an old "Twilight Zone" episode in which a rather plain young woman is refusing to undergo required plastic surgery to make her fufill the societal demands of beauty. She wishes to assert her individuality by keeping her own face. Finally, she sucombs to the surgery and in the last scene says to her friend, "I look exactly like you". She had conformed to the norm. As Daniel Quinn learned again to be a good company man. Like Winston Smith had learned to love Big Brother. Perhaps Mrs. G was a bit of a distaff Big Brother as well as a symbolic iron clad Auntie Maggie.

RE: Daniel's role in the "accident"--DQ tells Lucy that "Daniel Quinn ordered the working drivers not to stop, and they didn't." He gave the order, so IMO he could be held responsible for the death even though he wasn't actually driving the bus. I believe he even tells Lucy that he is responsible. The driver could not use Daniel's orders as his defence in running a person over. A driver's responsibility is to drive not *regardless*, but *according to* the conditions on the road. He cannot claim that someone ordered him not to stop (i.e. forbade him to use the brakes? illogical) - though he could say that he was under duress due to the pressure from the management. But Daniel's responsibility for the accident is not so much legal as moral - and, surely, that's how he himself sees it. He is so shaken by the outcome of his involvement in the application of ruthless policies that he suddenly sees the company as a beast without mercy or conscience - and so tries to make personal amends. their ability to section him still seems shaky to me And to me too. I can't wait to hear what the UK media will have to say about that (if anything...) when the film airs here eventually. I was majoring on the train situation, and guessing the buses would be the same. Here in London, I still believe that at the beginning (mid-80s) certain routes were "awarded" to certain companies. Mark, apparently the situation with London buses was/is largely different from the rest of the country. (Come to think about it, most things in London are greatly different... ;-)) it is fable, and is best accepted on those terms I beg to differ; it's not a fable - it is a parable. (Btw, posting here in the last two days has been a problem - any reason why?)

Have no idea, Arami. From your post at 107 I gather this is the only topic you're having problems with. Anyone else? But Daniel's responsibility for the accident is not so much legal as moral My thoughts exactly. It's not very clear to me how much responsibility Daniel Quinn had through his directives to the drivers but Donovan Quick has decided to bear the responsibility himself, warranted or not. (CherylB) I think, however, it is not germaine to the understanding or appreciation of the film "Donovan Quick". Well, everybody appreciates the film in their own way. I'm not concerned about missing details either but it promotes plenty of conversation. There's always Mari's observation: When Donovan pours his heart out to Lucy after being beaten by Clive, and they start kissing, and then the scene changes . . .did they . . .umm . . .are we dealing with another moss loft situation here?;-) which is bound to provoke conversation of the more amorous kind - my own personal favorite to be sure. By the way, I say they didn't.

I thought they had... but I'd better go check again ;-)

I'd say they most certainly did, they were asleep when the police arived at the house to pick him up. Now what do most people usually do after a deed is done? I bet they don't go jogging????? As for DQ being sectioned, of course somebody can be sectioned for trying to give away a brief case full of money. In doing so you are placing the financial security of yourself and your family at great risk.

Thanks, Arami, for all the background on buses. Was wondering when you would fill in the blanks. ;-) Mackie does, however, use the term "franchise" when referring to the local routes. That scene at the beginning when there's some kind of ceremony going on with Mackie...am rethinking. Isn't the old man wearing something across his chest/neck? Almost looks like a chain, as if there were a robe or cape. Could he be a government official? An MP? Another minor detail, can any old person just hop on a bus and become a driver? People here need to have special chaffeur licenses. However, if one walks into the right Illinois Secretary of State office and pays the right person, you can drive anything you want. (major scandal here) I agree with all you said Arami about the Daniel's role relative to the death, although I do think that having someone sectioned may not be that difficult. Daniel said that his family went to a solicitor and had it done. That wasn't for permanent commitment. But when he bugged out, then he could be forcibly detained. It would appear that the Sapas' lived in the W14 area of London (can be seen on the playground sign). Anybody notice the funny line about Speed? As they are getting their passengers on board quickly, one man makes a comment, "will the bus blow up if we go under 50?" :-) (Arami) it's not a fable - it is a parable. Agree. Anybody notice that Mrs. Gorman laid the Scottish accent on heavy in the video, but not at the meeting? (Mari) When Donovan pours his heart out to Lucy after being beaten by Clive, and they start kissing, and then the scene changes . . .did they . . .umm Fully dressed afterward. I'm voting no. Too much respect for her. Kate said she would check in with us next week and did watch DQ.

Karen: Isn't the old man wearing something across his chest/neck? Almost looks like a chain, as if there were a robe or cape. Mayors wear chains and typically attend ceremonies, but in practice have few powers. Of course, London being different, we're soon to vote for a mayor whose main policies will involve the transport system. can any old person just hop on a bus and become a driver? Bus drivers would need to possess a "large vehicle" licence, and would have had to sit a test for it. But some people own these anyway, having driven large vehicles previously. Next time I see my sister-in-law, who works in mental health, I'll ask the key questions about sectioning. These moss loft incidents really polarise people. Some are sure they did, some convinced they didn't. More debate from those who have watched, please...

(Mark) Bus drivers would need to possess a "large vehicle" licence, and would have had to sit a test for it. Theoretically, people here do the same, although we have more than one class of license. Large vehicles and driving people is not the same. I know for a fact that to drive a school bus here one needs to have a criminal record as well. ;-)

(KarenR)I know for a fact that to drive a school bus here one needs to have a criminal record as well. ;-) To have or have not? ;-)

Not a stated requirement, but seems as though they all do. Sad fact that the newspapers keep uncovering. :-(

I wouldn't be surprised to eventually read that the sectioning storyline was a bit contrived for drama's sake (it would be a tiny fraction of the dramatic license used for each episode of ER, believe me). As Evelyn said and others have pointed out using various terms, DQ is fiction. The pieces won't ever fit perfectly. DQ writer Donna Franceschild's hubby (a psych nurse) would know a thing or two about sectioning, though. I think they didn't. Too much trouble to put all of one's clothes back on before falling asleep (but I don't think they went out jogging, either, Maureen ;-)). Agree with Karen than Donovan has too much respect for Lucy--didn't want to merely stash the salami in manner of Clive. (Karen) I know for a fact that to drive a school bus here one needs to have a criminal record as well. ;-) Ohhh, you're bad. Had a sort-of DQ moment last weekend when hubby and I boarded a small NYC-bound bus which was poaching mighty NJ Transit's route--it came minutes before the regular bus was due and charged $1 instead of $3.20 for the trip. Of course, in DQ mighty Windmill was poaching little Q&P's route; besides, our driver didn't look a thing like Donovan :-P

(Eileen), hubby and I boarded a small NYC-bound bus which was poaching mighty NJ Transit's route-- Is it a small bus now? Last time I took one, it was a large van. Agree with Karen than Donovan has too much respect for Lucy--didn't want to merely stash the salami in manner of Clive. I agree. I wonder Heide what made you think that they had?

I side with the "no salami" bunch.

did they . . .umm . . . I say they didn't. I thought they had... I'd say they most certainly did, they were asleep... Fully dressed afterward. I'm voting no. I think they didn't. Too much trouble to put all of one's clothes back on before falling asleep... LOL! Keep going, please... of course somebody can be sectioned for trying to give away a brief case full of money Surely not. The only recourse his family would have would be to the court of law. The state of the person's mind is not a decisive issue here. He wasn't dangerous and he thought himself free to spend the money as he liked. If the ownership of the cash was disputed, then it's still only a civil court matter. The case doesn't seem sufficiently clarified in the film (editing fault?). Daniel said that his family went to a solicitor and had it done. That wasn't for permanent commitment. Presumably he was under observation, e.g. for mental exhaustion... The thing is, however, that apparently one must voluntarily agree to treatment, unless - again - the person is criminally insane and dangerous... I still say that it hasn't been fully explained. the sectioning storyline was a bit contrived for drama's sake Very likely. Mackie does, however,use the term "franchise"... It really depends what one means by that term. In case of unprofitable routes, local authorities in England put deemed socially necessary services to the open tender: any properly licensed bus owner can bid for it and the winner is then contracted (i.e. paid according to his bid) to run the service. If someone wishes to call this "franchise" then so be it, but officially it's a contract. Obviously there is no competition on those routes. In case of profitable routes there is no tendering and no contracts, but free competition (subject to certain rules, e.g. registration) is allowed instead. To be honest, I don't really know if the Scottish system is the same or different, but from the practice hinted at in the film, it seems largely similar. Mrs. Gorman laid the Scottish accent on heavy in the video, but not at the meeting That reminds me of another interesting thing. Throughout the whole sorry privatization affair an awful lot of bus companies in England - maybe even the majority - have been bought out by... Scottish owned companies. So there you have it...

(Moon) I wonder Heide what made you think that they had? Wha? I'm in the "didn't" camp. But I'll be they had the best night's sleep either one of them had in a loooong time.

Been away. Sorry to dredge up old stuff... (Moon) Sandy is mentally ill as is the old aunt. Gram is most certainly showing signs of senile dementia, but Sandy's Learning Disability (as they call it now) is not considered a mental illness in this country (nor in the UK, I would surmise), merely a developmental disability. Depending on its severity, those who have it are still capable of caring for themselves, can circulate freely in society, take jobs, and even marry as Sandy has done. And the "Wean" on the way may very well be perfectly normal. (Mark G) Bus drivers would need to possess a "large vehicle" license, and would have had to sit a test for it. . . . Right after they bought the bus, I think they are seen exiting some government bureau office or other for permits, so I think that that, and the technicalities of operating on the route got covered OK. (Mark G) But some people own these anyway, having driven large vehicles previously. . . . Who knows how far Daniel had to come to get into the top eschelons in England? And even so, it doesn't hurt to be able to operate one of the main machines (especially during a strike... Who knows? Management have been known to take over the reins temporarily before...) (Mari) . .did they . . .umm . (Karen) Fully dressed afterward. I'm voting no. Too much respect for her. . . . yeah, but respect aside, and in consideration of how battered his face (and body) had been, I was already saying "Ouch!" at the first kiss, too... ;-) KJ

of course somebody can be sectioned for trying to give away a brief case full of money Not for giving away the money. DQ was shown venturing into bad parts of the city to give away money. The family could argue his own personal safety was in danger. He could get mugged, killed or both and he was delusional.

Some answers - it could have taken time to get the bus working - in that time DQ could have obtained large vehicle licence - he had plenty of money still then. 2. Being sectioned, a tame psyciatrist, two tame doctors, a tame solicitor - yeah he could easily have been sectioned - money could have been handed over. Sandy was too much of a slow learner - he could read. He was quite capable of earning his living. Last time I was in the U.K. big companies were taking over. In the villages in Northamptonshire, Oxfordshire, hardly any public transport, no libraries, no pubs and no post office - nearly all had been closed down. Its like the bush here in Oz - everything is closing down. I felt very sorry for elderly people, it was quite terrible. D.Q. is important - it shows what the government is capable of privatising everthing. And as I said on 129 it makes Colin politically unreliable - if Blair can stop is nanny writing - well he is capable of anything.

(Arami)did they . . .umm . . . I say they didn't. I thought they had... I'd say they most certainly did, they were asleep... Fully dressed afterward. I'm voting no. I think they didn't. Too much trouble to put all of one's clothes back on before falling asleep... LOL! Keep going, please... (Karen) Fully dressed afterward. I'm voting no. Too much respect for her. (KJ). . . yeah, but respect aside, and in consideration of how battered his face (and body) had been, I was already saying "Ouch!" at the first kiss, too... ;-) If they didn't (and who says you have to take your clothes off?), I don't think "respect for her" is the answer.

(Gi) and who says you have to take your clothes off? True, but they were home, so why wouldn't they? (not like it was the backseat of some car);-) (Gi) I don't think "respect for her" is the answer. Chivalry. Lucy was Dulcinea. He put her on a pedestal. She was a symbol of love and perfection. It would've been profane to desecrate his symbol. All he wants to do is serve her and, in this case, cuddling and kissing would've meant far more to Lucy. Does that work? ;-)

Yes, the idea of cuddling does work. I find the key to that in Lucy's speech on what you (retorical you) will put up with just to feel loved. She knew Clive didn't care for her, not really, all he wanted was a place to put it. In Clive's reasoning, he didn't have to put much effort at all into his relationship with her, as she was a plain woman and should fall on her knees in graditude that any man would bother to notice her. So she went through the motions as it were, just to convince herself that there was the small chance of companionship. That is what she wanted above all, companionship, to be liked, to be esteemed, to be loved for herself alone. To have someone who felt she was beautiful, because she was a worthwhile person. The cuddling would work mutually between Lucy and Donovan, since Donovan was injured from the fight, she would want to comfort him but not hurt him. He, in turn, would want to hold her to say that he does value her.

I think I'm with Gi on this one. Making love to Lucy wouldn't have been disrespect; they are two troubled people who have just confided their innermost secrets to each other and are seeking/giving mutual comfort and affection. A far cry from how Clive uses her. (Karen) All he wants to do is serve her Mmmm . . .Yes???? ;-) Poor Lucy's been through so much. I say let's not deprive her of a night with Colin Firth.;-) ;-)

Next time I run into Colin in a lobby, I'll ask him. ;-)

He may well reply that it is whatever you think. Then again, he may give a definite answer. I agree with Karen, I don't think they did.

let's not deprive her of a night with Colin Firth.;-) ;-) It would have been a quickie, really... anyway, judging from Lucy's subsequent behaviour, I'd be inclined to think they didn't. It was more of a sister-brother embrace at that point. He may well reply that it is whatever you think Yes, the subject of more discussion! But having considered all the pros and cons here, I'm beginning to think that, whatever each of us may think and feel about it, ultimately it doesn't really matter whether they did or didn't. ... Or does it...? ;-)

Arami I'm affraid it does matter. The Movie industry is all about inspiring ones imagination. Now whats the point of any discussion if we cannot at times, let are imaginations run free and explore what might have, or might not have been???? For my part I am absolutely, completely sure that they did it. Of course, you all know what I think, so as Forest Gump says "thats all I have to say about that". Now I believe that some of you may have read the book, I think I remeber you Karen referring to it? This I promise will be the last mention on the subject, but does the book reveal what happened in that particular scene any more than what we saw in the film???????

Maureen, can't help you with what happens in the book as I haven't read it. I am basing my comments on what I know about the character (gathered informally) and about books of that type. Others have read the book, however, I do not think that Donovan Quick is that closely based on the book, which is a very long series of adventures. And feel free to discuss any aspect of the story you wish. We are well-known for picking stories/films apart, as you once commented to me long ago. Some people will agree with you and some people won't. That's what makes it all so fun.

(Maureen) The Movie industry is all about inspiring ones imagination. I know you meant this well, but most of the movies currently prodruced do not. The movie industry is about making money, lots of money, for the investors. If you can fire someone's imagination, that's very nice, but not even a requisite.

(Arami) I'm beginning to think that, whatever each of us may think and feel about it, ultimately it doesn't really matter whether they did or didn't. ... Or does it...? ;-) What mattered was that they came to an ultimate understanding of the depth of loss and pain that both had endured. How they expressed that understanding and empathy may have been important to them at the time, but either way, for us it is irrelevant compared to the insight and compassion they both experienced. We will inevitably read into it our own philosophy as to what we believe is an appropriate form of expression, and that is why it is better for the moviemaker to leave it up in the air... it is more satisfying to more people when they are allowed to fill in the blanks wisely left for them to create their own version of the way it should have been! ;-). KJ

Cheryl, I should have perhaps referred to the story telling industry but when it comes down to grass roots, its all about making money these days.

(Arami) It would have been a quickie, really... anyway, judging from Lucy's subsequent behaviour, I'd be inclined to think they didn't. It was more of a sister-brother embrace at that point. Ok, then let's not deprive her of a quickie with Colin Firth.;-) Seriously, that kiss and embrace on the bed is hardly a brother-sister type thing . . .although . . .in certain parts of Mississippi . . .hee, hee;-) And they do wake up in each other's arms. Later at the hospital, Lucy looks a bit wide-eyed when told Donovan/Daniel has a wife. It could go either way, I suppose, and no it really doesn't matter, but it's fun to speculate. (Karen) Next time I run into Colin in a lobby, I'll ask him. ;-) LOL! Exactly what I was thinking. Your time will come, I'm confident.;-)

(Karen) Next time I run into Colin in a lobby, I'll ask him. ;-) (Mari)LOL! Exactly what I was thinking. Your time will come, I'm confident.;-) The guy's gonna think she's a pervert;-)

Anyone notice during the Screen Actors Guild awards an upcoming commercial for a TNT special? Don Quixote!! It'll be on Sunday, April 9, and stars John Lithgow and Bob Hoskins, with Vanessa Williams and Isabella Rossallini. Since Maureen asked about the book, I picked it up at the library and skimmed through the ending sections to see what I could find about Dulcinea and DQ. A key part of the relationship between DQ and Dulcinea is that he "serves" her. DQ is told that Dulcinea has been enchanted and he attempts to disenchant her but fails. Toward the end, another knight challenges him and the terms are if he loses he must give up arms and return home for a year. DQ loses and would rather die rather than allow Dulcinea's perfection to suffer from his weakness. In other words, he remains faithful to her (his ideal of perfection), but feels he has lost his honor. Now the bad part, which could alter your views of the ending at the railroad station. He went home and fell into a melancholy state, which people attributed to his being vanquished and not being able to restore Dulcinea. In bed he asks forgiveness for his sins, to which his niece ask what they are. His answer: "My judgement is now undisturbed, and free from those dark clouds of ignorance with which my eager and continual reading of those detestable books of chivalry had obscured it. Now I perceive the absurdity and delusion of them, and am only sorry I am undeceived so late, that I have no time left to make some amends, by reading others that might help to enlighten my soul. I feel myself, niece, at the point of death, and I would fain so order it, as not to leave the imputation of madness upon my memory; for though I must confess I have been a madman, I would not confirm the truth of it at my death." To his friends he says the following: "Give me joy, good gentlemen, that I am now no longer Don Quixote de la Mancha, but Alonso Quixano, for his virtues surnamed the Good! I am now an utter enemy to Amadis de Gaul, and the innumerable rabble of his descendants; now all the histories of knight-errantry are to me odious and profane: I am now sensible of my folly, and of the danger I was led into by reading them; and now, through the mercy of God, and my own dear-bought experience, I detest and abhor them." DQ then confesses to the priest and makes his will. He asks Sancho's forgiveness for making him into a madman as well and making him believe in knight-errantry. About three days later, he died. His epitaph: Here lies the valiant cavalier, Who never had a sense of fear; So high his matchless courage rose, He reckon'd Death among his vanquish'd foes. Wrongs to redress, his sword he drew, And many a caitiff giant slew; His days of life tho' madness stain'd, In death his sober senses he regain'd.

Thanks Karen sounds very interesting, I may start looking for a copy myself.

Thanks Karen. But what happened to Dulcinea,Sanch Panza and the others he befriended. Did he make an impact on their lives, for the better? Or did they return to their hapless existence.Because here is where Ms. Francechild (author?)and Cervantes might part ways.When he left, Donovan might have had the despondent attitude that Don Q. has.At the railroad station, however, Donovan sees first hand that his time at Clyde brought positive results on the llives of the Pannicks..

Argh, this is a long book (over a 1,000 pages of itsy bitsy type). Not real sure about Dulcinea but it seemed like they weren't at all close, i.e., she put up with him as he was a lunatic. Sancho is at his death bed and attempts to revive his idealism. DQ is real sorry about failing to get him a governorship of some island. BTW, Sancho has a wife named Teresa.

Let's take the easy route and wait for the film on April 9th :-)

Maureen, my bark is worse than my bite. I wish what you said were true about the film industry. My gripe is with said industry, there are so many trite and/or crappy movies. The best art requires that you bring something of yourself and experiences to the appreciation and understanding of it. As a character kept asking in a play I once saw, "Did they have it off or didn't they." POV. It's all in your point of view. I don't think that Lucy and Donovan "had it off" as it were. That just doesn't jibe with my perspective on the story. It's not wrong or right, it's just perspective.

Cheryl, mine is just wishful thinking, thats what I'd like to think that happened. Lucy had such low self esteem, wouldn't it be nice for her to think that a man like DQ wanted her for who she was. Lets face it, whether they did or they didn't, if we were Lucy what would we have wanted?????? If I had the oppertunity I would just settle for a kiss and a cuddle, even if it is only acting. Then again an autographed picture would do just fine. Evelyne, where is DQ screening on the 9th of April? Karen, did you ever resolve the lighting problem with the movie? I have just received another copy from a freind who taped it in QLD. Transmission was fine, no snowy pictures, but I've just realised how dark some of the scenes really were. Initially, I had put it down to the poor transmission in this part of the country but it seems I was wrong.

On April 9th, a US television production of Don Quixote will be shown, not Donovan Quick. Still have no word on if/when it will be broadcast here. Maureen, we have transmission interference at the beginning (during the credits) and then a few intermittent hiccups. I've also decided that the interior lighting at the Pannicks was intentionally kept dark, as the other scenes (outside and at Windmill) are just fine.

I thought the hiccups and transmission interference were just my machine. It's temperamental. (Just like it's owner.)

its owner

Correct. Should read, "Just like its owner."

Are we the only souls discussing DQ at the moment??? If only it was screening in more places, I'm sure we would be getting more feedback. Karen I tend to agree with you that the lighting or lack of, in some parts was intentional. I have another movie of his arriving from the UK this week Fem Fetal??? (please excuse poor spelling). I have not seen this one yet, is it appropriate for me to discuss it here?????????

(Maureen) Fem Fetal??? (please excuse poor spelling). I have not seen this one yet, is it appropriate for me to discuss it here??? I think we changed the title over here...but sure,the bosses say you can discuss any CF production here..and you'll love Joe Prince:-)

Maureen, you can use topic 98 (Film Discussion) for Femme Fatale, since that's an oldie. I thought that Kate was going to post here, but here are her legal opinions: Sectioning The traditional position was that you need two doctors to sign you in, but I'm sure that's changed in these enlightened times. But his behaviour was probably sufficiently bizarre to justify some sort of intervention, especially since his family was in favour. Mr. Sapas' Death Well, that's tricky. If he ordered the drivers not to stop, knowing that someone was likely to be hurt, then conceivably he could be charged with some kind of conspiracy, or aiding or abetting offence to murder or manslaughter. But it would very much depend on the circumstances of the events. As to civil proceedings. Again, it would depend on the circs. But it would seem reasonable that he could be seen as being negligent with respect to the death if death or injury was the reasonably foreseeable result of his actions, and he was in legal terms, in close 'proximity' to the death. That would really depend on to what extent the driver of the vehicle took into account what he had said. But yes, it seems to me there would be good grounds for some kind of litigation there. You make the call. ;-)

Are we the only souls discussing DQ at the moment??? If only it was screening in more places Amen to that... I'm having to take comfort in knowing that the long awaited DQ does actually exist out there from all the chatter (and pix) about it from drool and cannot wait until the Summer , Christmas, sometime, never when it will be screened in the UK ;-(

Don't worry about your spelling Maureen, it can't be worse than mine.

Counselor Karen, thanks for the legal view on sectioning and culpability in the Sapas death, and please extend our thanks to Kate as well.

Mari ditto on the comments, and Karen thanks, not only for the legal explanations but the correct spelling of Femme Fetale.

Femme FATALE.

...besides, Maureen might be referring to the unnamed Cynthia/Elizabeth personality shown in Doctor Daddy's video. ;-)

Listen, Passionate Colin, it's really time to say something positive now. Please?

Yes, come on now Passionata/Colin we're all friends here...let's have some positivity.

I've noticed several people who've referred to Clive as having a "heart of gold" or some such like. From what do you get that impression? The apology and promise to redo the direction of his ambitions? Sorry, that isn't enough to release him from my impression of "same-old, same-old" promises that type are forever citing and never doing. So what gives rise to this more favorable impression of the character?

FYI, saw another Scottish film last night called Orphans, the directorial debut of Peter Mullan. It was set in Glasgow and it was totally subtitled. There's hope. BTW, this film was made in 1997 and look how long it took to get here. ;-)

(KJ) I've noticed several people who've referred to Clive as having a "heart of gold" or some such like. Where? I've gone back to the beginning of this discussion here (message 143) and checked the print articles/reviews at The Bucket. Don't see anything.

And I don't believe anyone here would refer to Clive as having anything but a functioning salami ;-)

Hey, don't knock it.

Clive may well have had a functioning salami, but he had all the technique and finesse of a moldy cold cut. He even had the personality to match.

(KJ) ...referred to Clive as having a "heart of gold" or some such like. .. (Karen) Where? I've gone back to the beginning of this discussion here (message 143) and checked the print articles/reviews at The Bucket. Don't see anything. ~~~I couldn't find it either although I remembered reading *something* ("which is why I said "Some such like.."), yet I knew I'd seen it somewhere. Finally remembered last night. At Murph's DQ site, there were 2 reviews, one from her and one from Jane: (Murph) I particularly liked O'Hara as a thuggy loser with a heart. ~~~ (Jane) and her abusive boyfriend Clive, a loser who takes a woman for all she's got simply because he can. This is the saddest part of the tale. \...\ By the time the film ends you feel like you have been through it with all the characters and the sympathy you have for them is very strong. It is a good tale, very finished. Even Clive is just a man with human failings. I could have sworn it was one or more of you guys. Mea Culpa. I guess I'll have to ask them... (both reviews at: http://www.geocities.com/%7Emurphyat65/quick/quick.html )

Hi all just dropped in to see how the discussion is going thus far. Sorry KJ, can't help with the liking Clive bit. The only positive thing about the role was the actor who played it. What I mean is he played a very convincing nasty type and what a pitty that there are people in this world who are actually like that. One question here, and call me ignorant if you will, but the guy who played Lucy's brother is he intellectually disabled in real life??????I thought his role was very convincing also.

(Maureen)The only positive thing about the role was the actor who played it. Hear hear. Cheryl, to have a functioning salami is not anything to write home about and I did not mean it that way :-)

Two articles (Melbourne Age's supplement and the Irish Times) mentioned that David Brown, who played Sandy, was learning disabled. I thought he did a great job. http://www.spring.net/karenr/mdbro/DQ.html Let's see, as I remember, Clive told Lucy, "you have to have it here, here and here." Don't remember him pointing out his heart. ;-)

I didn't think you did Gi. I thought Clive was scum, but the actor's performance was wonderful and the part well-written.

Bugger, why in heavens name, did not the Sydney papers have Colin on the front page of the TV guide. I can't believe we missed out up here, had I known at the time, I would have ordered the Age from the newsagent. No need for anyone to answer that, I'm just kicking myself after having made the discovery 2 months after the event.

Ta da! Have seen SLOW tonight. Sorry, only on video - it has not miraculously opened on these American shores. Good or bad first? You've all warned me SLOW is not a masterpiece and now I certainly can't argue with you. I'd imagine this film had a lot more to it when Colin signed on for it. He wouldn't intentionally make such a shoddy film. The story is sound - it just seems that so much of it is missing. I'm sure I missed much in the first viewing regarding the traditions and culture of the Nigerian community - so much of it seemed assumed. His relationship with his wife was very sketchily drawn. Matthew is chasing Nimi before he's even seen her. Nimi's engagement to the reverend seems on, then off, then on again with little explanation. The boat business is contrived and Matthew's illness unreal. Still I think it could have been so much better with some of these pieces filled in. Dialogue could have used some beefing up as well - pretty lame. Still, no surprises since I'd read all the comments here when this film was seen in January. Now the good parts - I thought there was good chemistry between Colin and both his leading ladies. Nia Long was lovely and I thought quite good. Perhaps Colin winced at some of the lines he was given but of course delivered them quite naturally. He does tongue-tied so well! Why did the writer complain about the focus of the film being taken away from the women? I thought there's was the bulk of the story. And then the man himself - that oh-so-familiar stride when we first see him - only the waist down but no mistaking who it is. Most times he was looking oh so good and oh so tall. Nia must be quite tiny. Great smooches with his wife.. He looks absolutely the best in the very last scene. Camera looking down at him as he's surrounded by the tomatoes. Terrific shot of that fine jaw. I'm a sucker for his chin. Plenty of dimples too. I remember someone saying that before. Now I'll have to re-read the early comments to compare to this most nascent view.

(Heide) The boat business is contrived and Matthew's illness unreal. Definitely, two of the weakest plot points. Dialogue could have used some beefing up as well - pretty lame. So you don't think Missan got to Screenwriting 102? ;-) Why did the writer complain about the focus of the film being taken away from the women? I thought there's was the bulk of the story. Had to complain about something, didn't she? I agree there was an appropriate balance of Nimi's community and her relationship with Matthew and I really enjoyed the women's banter, but what there was was sufficient. Sounds like that rewind button is going to get a major workout, my dear. ;-)

Sounds like that rewind button is going to get a major workout, my dear. ;-) You betcha! SLOW is definitely a must-have to that Colin collection for anyone who can get it.

A flawed film, but a first class Colin watcher.

Definitely, a must-have for drooling. On the big screen it was overwhelming. On the TV, hit the mute button, you won't have to listen to the dreadful script. I'd imagine this film had a lot more to it when Colin signed on for it. I hope so.Remember the reviewer who said..."What possessed CF to take on this film?" I thought the reviewers (esp. The Times) were v. kind. I can see why it sat on the bank shelf so long.And no distrib would touch it in the US.The guys at Optimum are my heroes.

Have to concur with Heide, though I've not been able to finish watching the video yet (realtors have turned house into Grand Central Station). My initial feelings were that, besides the flawed (to say the least) script, CF starts off a bit on the wooden side (found myself thinking 'c'mon Colin, you can move your lips a little more'). Loved the playing with guns bit when he falls backwards off the stone wall. LMAO at those fakey-fakey garden stills! Veddy, veddy baad.

CF starts off a bit on the wooden side Colin - wooden? This is sacrilege! 'c'mon Colin, you can move your lips a little more' Maybe he doesn't want to. My lips would also refuse to move if I had to say some of the crap lines they give him. ;-)

This is sacrilege! Waddaya going to do, stone me? :-P Have now watched SLOW twice. It does improve on second viewing, IMO. Have been commiserating about the MLSF vs. SLOW quasi-debate (of sorts) over at the CF topic. Have developed a comparison of the two films, using my own rating system (these are my ratings, I tell you, mine! Copyright me, me, me! ;-)). Here we go: Key: 4 stars = excellent; 1 star = pffftttt (Bronx cheer) CF's costumes MLSF **** SLOW * (does art imitate life here? If I saw that royal blue shirt one more time...) CF's hair MLSF *** SLOW **** "Huh? What just happened?" moments MLSF ** SLOW * (had more) Camera angles MLSF **** SLOW * (how 'bout that bed scene? Great view of their nostrils) Accents (hee hee) MLSF ** SLOW ** Ending (US version) MLSF *** SLOW * (sentimental, yet *barf*) It couldda been a contenda (i.e., the premise was good, but...) MLSF ** SLOW *** There you have it. Disclaimer: Eileen is expressing her own opinion, which should not be construed, express or implied, as the opinion of anybody else.

A classic, Eileen. A real keeper. I'll take your word, that SLOW improves with viewing....this is a fun topic so I won't go into the fact that IMO it is an insulting film to the black culture and I can see why it was never picked up by a US distrib for the US. So you see... ...some of us say tomayto and some of us say tomahto;-);-)

LOL, Eileen. Have registered *your* rating system with copyright agencies worldwide. ;-) BTW, have you adjusted *your* ratings for size of budget? May account for ever-present royal blue shirt and inability to photograph more than nostrils. ;-)

(Karen) Have registered *your* rating system with copyright agencies worldwide. ;-) You must have applied to LTO Ratings International, then. ;-D have you adjusted *your* ratings for size of budget? Aww, that would spoil the fun. Of course 99.99% of the nominal costume budget went to the Nigerian women. Matthew's attire was quite reminiscent of Brian Smith's, though.

(Evelyn)IMO it is an insulting film to the black culture I believe in North America people are much more sensitive to possible insults to different groups. I know there are a number of jokes I cannot tell my sister anymore... But is there a general black culture? Or is saying that insulting in itself? ;-)

But is there a general black culture? There are ethnic cultures...black is just part of it.One has to be pretty careful not only about what one says, but how the culture is portrayed. "But I don't wanna go there...."

(Evelyn)IMO it is an insulting film to the black culture... That's an interesting observation, since wasn't the film writtem by an African woman, who is herself black? I think you are right in your assertion that this topic should pretty much stop here, Evelyn. Like you, I do not want to go there.

One has to be pretty careful not only about what one says, but how the culture is portrayed. All right, we won't go there, but I just can't help noticing that the above statement gives me creeps.

Which ending did the UK have for MLSF?? Thanks.

One has to be pretty careful not only about what one says, but how the culture is portrayed. Which proves that in our present "Democracy", we are not really free. To be "politically correct", binds you with chains. But, we do not have to go there either. ;-)

...But, we do not have to go there either. ;-) I'm not. No matter how much you tempt me....;-)

our present "Democracy" Is there only one (type of) democracy? Also, democracy has been described as a system of oppression of minorities. But then, surely, any form of government must have an element of oppression. (All right! I'm going to shut up now.)

democracy has been described as a system of oppression of minorities. I beg to differ! (I will say no more on this subject.)

Which Firth production are we talking about?

Which Firth production are we talking about? We have all sworn not to speak about it anymore. ;-)

CatheyP - Which ending did UK have for MLSF? Hi Cathey, I think we had the same ending as you where Fraser is seen going off to school, with Edward giving him a few words of advice!

Which Firth production are we talking about? "My Democracy So Far" and "Relative Values Of Democracy". Also, "Refugees' Lost Empires", at a pinch. ;-) *democracy has been described as a system of oppression of minorities.* I beg to differ! I have it on academic authority... The simple reason is that, because the vote of a (relative!) majority wins, those who are outvoted (= a relative minority) have to accept the dictatorship of the (relative!) winners. Any experts on the theory of relativism here? ;-P (This is the last on the subject... For now.)

We've got way too many "experts" already, thank you. ;-) I'm not surprised the Aussie ending is also the UK ending. Looks like a tape exchange may be required once the PAL version comes out. I do want to see the "going off to school" ending and the I believe your version is missing the "dancing in the rain" scene. Frankly though, that scene is just a few seconds long.

I have it on academic authority... The simple reason is that, because the vote of a (relative!) majority wins, those who are outvoted (= a relative minority) have to accept the dictatorship of the (relative!) winners. The point is that the race of the winners are very often of a "minority" one. This would never have happened if it were not for Democracy. In this case the (relative) minority finds itself with the power of the dictatorship. It is up to you who you wish to be your dictator. ;-) I thought we swore to end this topic?

It is up to you who you wish to be your dictator. ;-) But if *my* candidate loses, I lose my actual right to chose my dictator - and gain the actual right (or even obligation) to accept the will of the opposition (which I do not accept). If I do not accept that right/obligation, I become a lawbreaker. If I do not wish anyone to be my dictator, I am an anarchist. However, if I don't want lawlessness and anarchy (for simple selfish, self-preservation reasons), I have to accept (periodically) someone else's choice of government: ergo, I am (periodically) the oppressed minority. Q.E.D. I didn't swear to do anything, but I'll try to shut up now. :-)

But if *my* candidate loses, I lose my actual right to chose my dictator - Wrong because if you like who wins or not, you had the choice of voting. You had the choice of chosing your dictator, he just did not win. If you need consolation, get yourself "Anarchy in the UK" by the Sex Pistols. ;-) Getting back on topic, I finally saw SLOW. It was a sweet film, a must-do-fastforward one, but sweet. His acting is vintage CF. Mathew is not such an interesting character, and I am baffled as to why Colin did this. Did anyone notice the major acne break-out on his face? I did not notice any in the Donmar pictures.

....and I am baffled as to why Colin did this $$$$$$$$$$$

(Moon Dreams) Did anyone notice the major acne break-out on his face? I did not notice any in the Donmar pictures. Yes, I noticed the bumps; they are also seen in DQ. I didn't know what they were, because his skin looked beautiful at the Donmar. I thought perhaps they were natural moles and bad lighting...? But maybe he was suffering from a breakout...

Wrong because ... You had the choice of chosing your dictator, he just did not win. ...get yourself "Anarchy in the UK" by the Sex Pistols. ;-) Moon, I finally see how you got your name... ;-) I am baffled as to why Colin did this $$$$$$$$$$$ It was probably just $$$$$ - barely ���... I thought perhaps they were natural moles and bad lighting...? But maybe he was suffering from a breakout... He has some permanent very pale moley bumps on one of his temples - and also periodical breakouts around his chin... There were some visible when he did the Survival appeal. But he looked beautifully smooth at the MLSF London premiere. Do the poor baby's hormone levels fluctuate, then?

(Moon)I am baffled as to why Colin did this (Evelyn) $$$$$$$$$$$ Have to wonder if he's been paid. I heard Misan was over the limit on her credit card. ;-P

I heard Misan was over the limit on her credit card. LOL! That was probably cos of Colin's paycheque. Maybe Jeremy Irons would have accepted a share of the profits.

Maybe Jeremy Irons would have accepted a share of the profits. Why does he strike you as one can short of a six-pack? ;-)

Why does he strike you as one can short of a six-pack? ;-) LOL! No way. He had enough sense to turn the project down.

(Moon) I finally saw SLOW. It was a sweet film, a must-do-fastforward one, but sweet.    I did too. I also arranged to watch it with a friend over the weekend. Upon my first viewing (alone), I was inclined to agree with you. His acting is vintage CF.     Some very nice spots. I was especially taken with his confession to Nimi of being afraid of her and what was happening. Very touching and bee-you-tifully done! Mathew is not such an interesting character, and I am baffled as to why Colin did this.    Again, on my first viewing I would have agreed with you. It wasn't until my second (when I was beginning to figure out who was who and how they were related, and finally picking up some of the dialogue) when I had a definite reassessment: This story was very redeemable given better screenwriting and more original dialogue; it made more sense than was originally apparent. The situation had some very interesting possibilities. My friend picked up on it faster than I, and liked it very much.    Things were there that were incomplete, quickly passed over and not made clear. But I can see why CF would have been intrigued by it originally. I have seen it a third time and suspect I will watch it through a couple more ... I'm not at the "fast-forward" stage yet. :-)     Unfortunately, potentially good and powerful stuff was badly mishandled both during shooting and after. But as ODB stated philosophically during one of his interviews, once the actors have done their bit, it is in other people's hands -- the old too-many-cooks syndrome. It had been suggested that the major players in this production were operating under different agendas ... unfortunately, it shows. Did anyone notice the major acne break-out on his face? I did not notice any in the Donmar pictures.    He must be a trial for his make-up people occasionally. That "aging" article was citing genetic luck for some people that don't show the signs of aging as fast as others (and including ODB). He apparently has a naturally oily skin which is both a blessing and a curse. It forstalls the wrinkling process, but unfortunately keeps breaking out and producing sebaceous cysts even into middle age. I guess he just "rises above it". ;-) KJ

Moon, I finally see how you got your name... ;-) Thank you, Arami! It is true, I dream of a kindlier world. ;-)

(KJArt) This story was very redeemable given better screenwriting and more original dialogue It wasn't so much the dialogue but the abundance of cliche situations which got to me. The premise was interesting, the setting was terrific but the story was unimaginitive. I suppose if they didn't give Matthew a wife and a commitment problem there wouldn't have been enough conflict, but... I've seen that men often encounter skin problems related to shaving. Of course, he could be secretly waxing. ;-D

While doing some research for Moon, I ran across this comment of Eileen's on the BJD topic: ...again! Colin's had more 'breakouts' than a teenager. Seems rather apropos ;-)

After watching SLOW for the second time, I can truly say that this movie will never grow on me. I�m truly disappointed and it would pain me to see it again in its entirety. I can�t get past the story or that soooo stiff acting. It was totally unbelievable�and if it were, believable, Matthew would be someone you could never trust.

I agree about not trusting Matthew. Besides the fact that cheating on his wife is perfectly acceptable to him, he set out to seduce Nimi before he even met her. All he needed to hear was if she were beautiful. And when the next pretty face comes along? Sure, sure, he says he loves her and we're supposed to believe that the kind of life he led pre-Nimi was unsatisfactory but do we really believe it? Still, I'm shallow enough to watch this film again for some very pretty scenery.

(Jana) Matthew would be someone you could never trust. (Heide) Besides the fact that cheating on his wife is perfectly acceptable to him Have we forgotten that he and his wife have "an arrangement"? As she tells Nimi in the kitchen the day before she and Matthew are supposed to leave, it "adds spice." I've had to watch the movie umpteen times (for administrative purposes) - in fact, last night again - and it hasn't been torture at all. ;-)

...and he tells Nimi that there are boundaries and asks if she can accept them. To which, she answers "yes."

(Karen)..and he tells Nimi that there are boundaries and asks if she can accept them. To which, she answers "yes Yeah..but that's after they've had a good shag in the potting shed. Doesn't count;-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~` (Heide)I'm shallow enough to watch this film again for some very pretty scenery. Scenery better on the big screen...alas not the story or his acting. *two thumbs down*

(Karen)Have we forgotten that he and his wife have "an arrangement"? As she tells Nimi in the kitchen the day before she and Matthew are supposed to leave, it "adds spice." One of many clues telling her that he's a loser. (Karen)I've had to watch the movie umpteen times (for administrative purposes) - in fact, last night again - and it hasn't been torture at all. ;-) I have to stick to the snappys less painful. With them I can at least make up another story. By reading some of the earlier posts I would like to know what possessed this lady to write such a story. She offerred no depth or anything new. I could have written a better story on toilet paper.

I quite liked SLOW... Am I alone in this then?

(Gi)I quite liked SLOW... Am I alone in this then? Probably not...but aside from looking gorgeous, what did you like about it?

The kid, the headdresses, the house, the wedding negotiations, the tomatoes, the music... Of course he *did* look gorgeous and sullen in a Darcy-like way... ;-)

Thank you...just curious. Thought I was missing something ;-)

(Gi) .. I quite liked SLOW... Am I alone in this then? Absolutely not! (I said so before but I can reiterate), Enjoyed all that and a few of the cracks showed a genuine wit back there somewhere. A bit off the wall, granted, but so what. I can, and will watch it again. KJ (not a perfectionist as far as CF is concerned)

We've seen ODB in far less-than-perfect films before. Much as I hate to admit it, even the dreaded P offers a better performance, IMO, than SLOW. And the scenery's pretty good, too... ;-D There were things I liked about SLOW but the acting wasn't among them.

I liked the Nigerian hair wraps, and proverbs.... (Eileen)..but the acting wasn't among them. Oh...there was acting?

Oh...there was acting? You're too cruel!! (giggle)

Comments from the New York showing of Londinium from a friend: Yes, indeed. I liked it. I laughed. Colin was truly truly handsome: Charles Gould + (beard), modified Darcy (hair and sideburns--darkish). I know that there will be several skeptics encountered--particularly those who like me have watched other Mike Binder classics like Sex Machine and Indian Summer. I went into viewing the film really hoping not to dislike it, but I have positives to report--and again I think those of you who like romantic comedies will like this one--and particularly Colin. Londinium, while somewhat predictable, is never gross or sophmoric--and only slightly immature. It is unlike the other Binder films I watched. The Binder character is still the loser--but he is truly a bit more likeable loser. The film begins with a voiceover telling us that it's a film about foolish behavior and that we shouldn't judge the characters too badly--and it comes back to this statement in the summing up at the end. It strikes the right tone! The film of course is about coupling--and uncoupling--and musical relationships. And it's also kind of an American's love affair with London--which looks good--and is always SUNNY in this film (never a drop of rain/ or a spot of fog): it's always summer in the park. But best of all (am I biased?) was Colin. He plays a true romantic lead--and he's involved in so many comic situations--rather than in a load of comic lines. And I think he is wonderful again at doing what he does best--letting us know what's he thinking effectively and subtly. And he kind of underplays some of his comic lines (like the bit about the Binder character--Ben--not being able to help being American). And, I'm sorry, he and Irene Jacob make such a cute couple--and when he smiles at her . . . And really some of the best scenes are the ones with Stephen Fry, who plays the therapist. It turns out he deals in labor conflicts, not romantic ones, so when Colin and his partner go to him and start talking about sex--the poor therapist is a bit nonplussed--as only Stephen Fry can be. And poor Colin having to be so repressed and uncomfortable about talking about his sex life... The theatre was only about 1/2 full and most of the people looked in their twenties and early thirties. There was laughter throughout--on the lightish side. And those for stayed for the credits applauded--couldn't recognize any Binder-looking relatives among them, who it might have been genuine appreciation. It was entertaining--and it had Colin looking at his best and acting very well indeed. A thumbs up? Definitely not down in any case.

So Binder is getting it together! Thanks for the review, Karen. The first of many I hope. It looks like it is definitely Colin's film. Commedies are always the hardest to do as an actor. I look forward to reading more opinions. :-)

(Moon) So Binder is getting it together! Before you get your hopes too high...It wasn't like Sex Monster or Indian Summer. There was less physical humor and neebish-y Mike. The four lead roles kind of had equal force in the movie--although the framework and main interest was Mike. Colin got to play a romantic lead: he gets to seduce a woman in a hotel room and use his dimples as well as other parts of his body. His look was wonderful and he did his usual wonderful signaling of his thoughts through his face. The main question of the film, was can relationships survive the initial glow? Not too original and not answered originally but it was entertaining along the way--one gross, offensive scene that involved some overweight folk. Binder does go for the cheap laugh and his one-liners aren't great but this time they aren't insulting. The sheer cuteness of Colin and Irene Jacob carries the film. Probably the best part are the "sex" therapy sessions with Stephen Fry as the therapist, but actually he specializes in labor disputes.Have asked for clarification of the line: "he gets to seduce a woman in a hotel room and use his dimples as well as other parts of his body." ;-D As far as billing goes, all the leads' names were on the screen at the same time alphabetically. Very ensemble-ish. Haven't heard back how the names were shown in the end credits. Perhaps "in order of appearance."

I have an impartial report (she is not smitten with CF as we are), from a friend who went. Not too good. The film is basically a predictable couples in love, couples in lust, couples out of love, couples out of lust scenario that has been done countless times before usually better. However, C.F. and I.J. were good considering the script they had to work with, it wasn't the worst film made and it did have some amusing moments but it could have been so much better. Binder acts like a poor man's Woody Allen throughout,. Very manic, Jewish NY cadence but very forced. Stephen Fry had a very small part which is too bad since he was so good in Oscar Wilde. Mariel Hemingway was her usual stiff self. We all agreed that it was about forty minutes too long and the characters lacked any passion. My friend who went with me said they were just so cold you could not feel for them but we all thought Colin, Irene and one of the English actors (can't remember his name right now) were good. We also all agreed we were happy we didn't pay the NY price of $9.25 for the film. Colin looks thinner again, not as muscular as in P & P.

(Karen),Have asked for clarification of the line: "he gets to seduce a woman in a hotel room and use his dimples as well as other parts of his body." ;-D Forgot this part: Oh, he did have a few love (sex) scenes but nothing revealing...sorry !

Binder acts like a poor man's Woody Allen throughout,. Very manic, Jewish NY cadence but very forced. I see nothing has changed. Of course, it was "forced." Binder is (a) not from NY and (b) not a good actor. ;-D Oh, he did have a few love (sex) scenes but nothing revealing...sorry ! LOL! Your friend knows you all too well.

Oh, he did have a few love (sex) scenes but nothing revealing...sorry ! LOL! Your friend knows you all too well. (Blushing) Well, I did ask her for more details too. ;-) I hope whoever has seen it post the details of the sex scenes. We get the gist of the movie.

Bethan: Yes, Yes, Yes

(Moon) I hope whoever has seen it post the details of the sex scenes. We get the gist of the movie. Just a quickie, as must get back to work. I'll write more later as you have questions. Regarding the sex scene (only one, sorry!) Colin and Irene are progressively more attracted to each other and end up alone at a B&B. Don't want to give away too much plot as to why Mike and Mariel aren't there. Colin just can't take it anymore and he reaches out to kiss Irene and pulls her close. She protests feebly "no we mustn't" and then succumbs to his charms. What follows is a brief bit more of heavier kissing and clinching, first standing up and then falling down on the bed together. All clothes remain on during the entire time. After that we hear a lot more lovemaking sounds through the wall but do not see anything more. There is also a lovely kiss between CF and IJ at the end. The only sexual situation between CF and Mariel involves them lying in bed, bored with each other and talking about why they're not haveing sex :-). BTW Bethan, if you're checking here I didn't want to post the answer to your question from #134, but IMO there were several portions of the film where I thought Colin's role made him appear as a stereotypical, repressed and somewhat wimpy Brit. Not that I think British men are like that, mind you..... just answering your question about a stereotypical portrayal :-).

I see Marianne and I crossed posts. So as not to be totally confusing in the answer to Bethan's second question, yes I agree with Marianne there are moments when Colin gets to act sexy. Unfortunately there are also moments when he's wimpy and un-sexy. So there you go - a well rounded performance :-).

.Thanks to everybody....Marianne and Jana for going to the film . By all reports it seems that it was Max Binder's good fortune to latch on to Colin and IJ. Apparently they made the movie palatable.Of course we all knew he would look gorgeous. (Jana)..What follows is a brief bit more of heavier kissing and clinching, first standing up and then falling down on the bed together. What kind of heavier kissing...details, please....movie kisses.?..he takes her upper lip or TRT....? Enquiring [dirty]minds want to know;-)

(Evelyn) What kind of heavier kissing...details, please....movie kisses.?..he takes her upper lip or TRT....? Enquiring [dirty]minds want to know;-) LOL! Unfortunately I can't really remember. I don't think we got a real close up on the lip area. If I recall correctly, the scene is mostly shot with Colin facing camera, Irene's back to camera and her head blocking a lot of the details in the lip area. Sorry I can't be more specific. The scene happened so quickly - this is when you really want the video so as to be able to rewind and uncover matters of such doctrinal import :-). Marianne, can you add anything better than my recollection?

Was there evidence of lapdancer stimulation as is described on 136? ;-D

(Jana2)there are moments when Colin gets to act sexy. Unfortunately there are also moments when he's wimpy and un-sexy. So there you go - a well rounded performance :-). LOL! Not the wimp word, anything but that! Colin just can't take it anymore and he reaches out to kiss Irene and pulls her close. As in Paul in FP? Does Colin's performance here remind you of any other ones? Thanks for the reports. :-D

Another matter of doctrinal import... do you think his beddie-by black t-shirt was one from his own collection? ;-D

Warning! S P O I L E R S I hope I remember things correctly. When the story begins, he's married to MH. But, it's already a dull, boring marriage. Ben, infatuated with Carly, decides to set up Allen and Fiona to prove to Carly that they are having an affair, and becuase Carly requires proof that Allen and Fiona are actually having an affair before she�ll sleep with Ben. He plans a weekend for all four. Carly feigns being ill and Ben running late at work and he�ll meet up with Allen and Fiona who are already at the station. Actually, Carly and Ben are at the B&B, and have situated themselves in the room next to Allen�s. It turns out that Allen and Fiona are attracted to each other and fall into each other�s arms and onto the bed (fully clothed!). On the other side, Ben and Carly are listening to their moans and groans, and staring at the decorative china plates over the bed banging against the wall. Allen and Fiona get together; live happily ever after for a while, then things become strained between the two of them. She�s become a successful author and is as ed to go to Rome to do book. Allen doesn�t want to go. She says they need to see a therapist to talk about why they don't communicate and have sex anymore. He�s against it, but relents and says they should see a therapist he knows. They both go and see this labor/management arbitrator, who�s in over his head with their problems. She makes ask questions, like: how many times they used to do it in a day? Where they used to do it? Why doesn�t he like to kiss her between her legs anymore? (Was I too graphic?) Allen and Nigel (SF) are both extremely uncomfortable with her plain speaking. Finally, she decides she�s going off to Rome on her own. Allen goes back to the therapist to try to understand why this is happening. He has one last confrontation with Ben and Davey (JD) outside the pub, tells them he�s leaving London and going to Rome because he loves his wife. At the train station, he meets up with Fiona. They hug and they kiss � quite lovingly.

I don't think the plot will merit a Pulitzer :-( BUT Why doesn�t he like to kiss her between her legs anymore? (Was I too graphic?) The dialogue shows promise:-)) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ do you think his beddie-by black t-shirt was one from his own collection? ;-D I was thinking the same.... ~~~~~~~~~~~ (Evelyn) What kind of heavier kissing.. (Jana)LOL! Unfortunately I can't really remember. I don't think we got a real close up on the lip area OK , Mark...you just got your assignment;-)

(Marianne) Allen and Fiona get together; live happily ever after for a while, then things become strained between the two of them. She�s become a successful author and is asked to go to Rome to do book. Yeah, every makeup artist *I* know becomes a successful author.;-) And me, like a dope, I majored in Journalism--*slapping side of head*;-) (Evelyn) I don't think the plot will merit a Pulitzer :-( See comment above.;-) Marianne or Jana, could you clarify: are Ben and Fiona married at the start of the film? Also, what was the audience's general reaction? Again, many thanks to you both for the reports. I agree that the dialogue shows promise--and, um, could we get the answers to the questions posed in the shrink's office?:-)

Thank you for the Londinium reports. Didn't read the spoilers in detail (only through the fingers), but there's one thing I'd like to know: Was there a bathtub sharing scene with the body double from Luton, Bare-Everything-Ingrid?

Renate: No Mari: Fiona (IJ) is a friend who works for Allen (CF) on Carly's (MH) TV show. Ben (MB) is a writer from the US brought on by Carly to energize her show. Ben, even though he's infatuated with Carly, hooks up and marries Fiona. Um, answers to those questions ... I don't remember exactly if there was a reply (Jana, HELP!) ... all I pretty much remember was how he and Nigel were both squirming. But, I'm sure there were some allusions that they had a very satisfactory sex life in the beginning ... would do it in every room in the house, the taxi, the train station, ... hope that helps. As for audience reaction, there was polite applause in the end for everyone (MB got the longest applause) well he was in the audience and I guess it's safe to assume most of the people there were there to see his movie. At least quite a few kept saying "Where's Mike?" Everyone seemed to laugh at all the appropriate places, especially when it came to digs about the industry.

Thanks, ladies. Haven't gotten to the other topic yet so forgive me if I repeat stuff that's already been asked and answered. If no lip action to report (yes, world, we're insane), how about at least some left shoulder rotation? When is the wedding scene that we've seen shots of? I had assumed at the end of the film but it sounds as if Fiona and Allen get together midway through the film. But, I'm sure there were some allusions that they had a very satisfactory sex life in the beginning ... would do it in every room in the house, the taxi, the train station, .. And we don't get to see it? Waaah! Just kidding. Simply seeing Colin as a halfway normal modern male will make me very happy. The dialog is better than SLOW, right?

Heide: There are 2 wedding scenes, Fiona & Ben's, and Fiona & Allen's.

(Moon) Does Colin's performance here remind you of any other ones? There were some Paul Ashworth moments, for example one time he was angry and yelled something like "Would you Pleeeeeze stop...." (can't remember the rest because I was so taken by the Paul-like "please". Perhaps Paul comes to mind because they are both modern day characters. I will do some more thinking on this question and see if I come up with any more likenesses. Why doesn�t he like to kiss her between her legs anymore? (Was I too graphic?) (Evelyn) The dialogue shows promise:-)) If you liked that, you'll love the follow up session where they discuss why there's been a drop off in the number of times per week he wants her to make love to him with her mouth ;-). I use the term discussion loosely, since it mostly consists of very frank (and hilarious) talk by IJ and much hemming and hawing by CF and SF. (Marianne) Um, answers to those questions ... I don't remember exactly if there was a reply (Jana, HELP!) Hmmm, I think CF responded that passion just drops off which is natural in a relationship. IJ then gets huffy and wonders that if it's so natural, why hasn't he lost his passion for the taste of a good steak :-)? (Renata) Was there a bathtub sharing scene with the body double from Luton, Bare-Everything-Ingrid? LOL - I had totally forgotten about Ingrid and the hot tub. Unfortunately there is a sad dirth of wet scenes in this movie. Lots of scenes walking or standing next to bodies of water but the shirt never gets wet. No hot tubs in sight either, although Ingrid sounds like the type of person that Mike Binder might hire :-). (Heide)If no lip action to report (yes, world, we're insane), how about at least some left shoulder rotation? I knew you'd ask about that so I watched for this especially :-). There is a lovely snog at the end where there might have been something close to our lovable shoulder action. The camera is whirling in a circle though, so I got a little disoriented. And just in case you're disappointed at the lack of lip action, take heart that there is one good close up of MB planting one on Mariel ;-). I guess that's not quite the same, is it? (Heide) When is the wedding scene that we've seen shots of? As Marianne says there are two. Fiona and Ben's about one third of the way through and Fiona and Allen's about two thirds of the way through. I had figured the wedding would have been the grand finale ala P&P, but it turned out there was quite a bit more action after the second wedding. Let's see, what other tidbit can I throw out to you..... Oh yes, we get to see how CF does in a fight.

(Evelyn) The dialogue shows promise:-)) (Mari) I agree that the dialogue shows promise--and, um, could we get the answers to the questions posed in the shrink's office?:-) Scene screams for visuals, rather than dialogue IMO. ;-D (moi) do you think his beddie-by black t-shirt was one from his own collection? ;-D (Evelyn) I was thinking the same.... *hee hee* Knew it! (Marianne) At least quite a few kept saying "Where's Mike?" That was when he stood up, right? ;-D Thanks for the reports, ladies. Most enjoyable. Catch any "insider" audience comments?

Oh yes, we get to see how CF does in a fight. As in MLSF? Is this when the wimp comes up? Please say no! ;-)

No, remember how Allen was originally described as a barroom brawler?? CF gets to punch out a bunch of people and does so credibly. His arm has improved. So we're not going to wince...at least at that part. ;-D

(Evelyn) The dialogue shows promise:-) *snort* (Heide)If no lip action to report (yes, world, we're insane), how about at least some left shoulder rotation? (Jana) I knew you'd ask about that so I watched for this especially :-). There is a lovely snog at the end where there might have been something close to our lovable shoulder action. The camera is whirling in a circle though Ooh, another whirly-twirly. Whee! ...so I got a little disoriented. And just in case you're disappointed at the lack of lip action, take heart that there is one good close up of MB planting one on Mariel ;-). I guess that's not quite the same, is it? Did he have to stand on a chair? (Marianne) At least quite a few kept saying "Where's Mike?" (Karen) That was when he stood up, right? ;-D *snort again* Thanks for your reports, Jana and Marianne! Re: love scenes, am afraid the NMPR* rule applies. Also, he might have to sit through a screening with the in-laws. ;-) *No more pumpy-rumpy (or was it rumpy-pumpy?) :-D

I may never (or at least not for a long time) get to see his new films so I do the next best thing, I read your reports... Thank you ladies. Knowing the end doesn't spoil a movie or a book for me (unless it's a thriller, of course), so please go on, go on :-)

Oops forgot, they gave out cards for Londinium ... really just cast list and site address. You've probably already seen this. http://sunlightproductions.com/Londinium http://sunlightproductions.com/Londinium/40x.html

(Moon) As in MLSF? Is this when the wimp comes up? Please say no! ;-) (Karen) No, remember how Allen was originally described as a barroom brawler?? CF gets to punch out a bunch of people and does so credibly. His arm has improved. So we're not going to wince...at least at that part. ;-D Karen is absolutely correct, so take heart Moon. Allen does the punching in this film so you don't have to watch him cower on the floor and get beat up :-).

So my DH will just keep quiet this time? Yeah! Thanks Jana and Karen!

(Moon) So my DH will just keep quiet this time? Yeah! *hee hee* Yes, Colin seems to get all the women in this film, by YDH might be gloating during the analyst sessions.