The inspiration for this topic came from seeing a picture of Jennifer Ehle after she won the BAFTA. She was laughing, had a huge, messy grin spread out all over her face, and her short blonde hair looked (sorry, I'm not trying to be bitchy) rather stringy. It was probably the violent contrast to her appearance as Lizzy that made me think she looked rather vulgar. (Please, I mean no disrespect at all.) And I thought: Eliza Doolittle. I could just see her, from that picture, as the loudmouthed gutters ipe that Eliza is at the beginning--and of course we know that she can play the perfect lady that Eliza becomes at the end. I'd love to see her play the part, either in My Fair Lady or (if she can't sing) Pygmalion. As for Henry Higgins, why not Colin Firth? I'm thinking here of Leslie Howard's Higgins (from the 1930s movie), a younger man than Rex Harrison's, a spoiled brat who never grew up. I like the thought of Higgins and Eliza being closer in age than Harrison and Julie Andrews/Audrey Hepburn were, too: adds more sexual tension. Any other suggestions?

Several of you have praised the novel Possession in the best books topic. I enjoyed reading this book as much as any I can remember. I no longer have it so I can't remember all the names, sorry. But what about CF to play the Victorian poet? Perhaps someone can name an Austen actor for Christabel, but I kept picturing Kristen Scott Thomas in the role. Another A.S.Byatt novel I'm now reading, The Virgin in the Garden would be fun to cast. Keep in mind I'm only in the middle so I don't know if my ideas would hold up. CF as Alexander, S. Harker (?Jane in P & P2) as Stephanie. I'll think some more about the other characters. Any ideas?

Anne3: The inspiration for this topic came from seeing a picture of Jennifer Ehle after she won the BAFTA. She was laughing, had a huge, messy grin spread out all over her face, and her short blonde hair looked (sorry, I'm not trying to be bitchy) rather stringy. Is this the picture to which you refer? It is certainly a contrast to the photo of her in Vanity Fair - where, though it is in black and white, it appears that she has gone brunette again.

No, Joan. It was another picture. She looks quite pretty in that one, not at all vulgar.

Looks rather like Livia, to my mind

Has anyone seen the classic Alfred Hitchock film, Notorious, with Cary Grant and Ingrid Bergman? I think CF and JE would be perfect in the roles of Alicia and Devlin. Great sexual tension. Also, how about Jeremy Northam, in the Charles Boyer role, in a re-make of Gaslight? He makes great villians. And Amanda Root in the Ingrid Bergman part?

I would like to make a movie of Georgette Heyer's "The Grand Sophy" with Anna Chancellor as Sophy- she deserves to be a "nice" scheming woman for once.If you want,CF could be her cousin Charles(it would be wonderful to see how he plays a man with an explosive temper)I'd put Dawn French in as Sancia.

I cast a vote for Colin Firth as the Scarlet Pimpernel. Do you think Jennifer Ehle could do a passable French accent? If so, I vote for her as the female lead. Also, what could we do with Tale of Two Cities?? Colin? Jeremy??

Jeremy Northam and Colin Firth as the Scarlet Pimpernel, most definitely. Imagine Mr Firth : They seek him here, they seek him there, those Frenchies seek him everwhere (flick of the wrist here). Jennifer Ehle as Mrs Miniver, perhaps?

I love Edith Wharton. How about the House of Mirth with JN as Seldon and Kate Winslet as the tragic Lily? I can almost visualize Jn standing over her bedside, felled by fate. Or what about the Glimpses of the Moon with Jn and KW as Nick and Suzy Lansing-a beautiful young couple with many connections but no money who marry, the sole purpose being the fun they can have sponging off their rich friends for a blissful honeymoon year. The usual romantic complications ensue. And finally, Thomas hardy's Return o the Native deserves a lush, cinematic tratment. CF would make the perfect Damon Wildeve.

I'd like to see Firth play an American Southern gentleman.

I cast a vote for Colin Firth as the Scarlet Pimpernel. Do you think Jennifer Ehle could do a passable French accent? If so, I vote for her as the female lead. In my dreams, Cf and JE have already done this. ;-) I'd like to see Firth play an American Southern gentleman. Yeah! Doc Holliday, with Patrick Swayze as Wyatt Earp. Then I could drool double-time.

"I'd like to see Firth play an American Southern gentleman." Dare I hope you have one of the more favorable sterotypes of a southern gentleman in mind? When I am ill at ease at a meeting with strangers, I always listen for an educated Mississippi accent among the crowd. I always know that people with that accent will go out of their way to help a lone female feel welcome and at ease.

Re: #10 - Yes, Cassandra, YES!!! :)

Caroline, does Jennifer really appear in your dreams? I would have thought you'd want CF all to yourself!

Re 152:9 Johanne....I just realized that Percy would be a perfect combination of Valmont and Darcy for Firth.....we must get in touch with the studios...maybe you and I could produce! 'Is he in heaven, or is he in ____, that demned elusive Pimpernel' Mrs. Miniver....an inspired thought! And Amy, I feel just plum wrhetched...but I can't figure what American Southern Gent you might be pinin' for.

Re 152:9 Johanne....I just realized that Percy would be a perfect combination of Valmont and Darcy for Firth.....we must get in touch with the studios...maybe you and I could produce! 'Is he in heaven, or is he in ____, that demned elusive Pimpernel' Mrs. Miniver....an inspired thought! And Amy, I feel just plum wrhetched...but I can't figure what American Southern Gent you might be pinin' for.

I think it might be Clark Gable, Gary Cooper or Gregory Peck.

What about Firth as one of Pat Conroy's troubled South Carolinkies?

Amy: What about Firth as one of Pat Conroy's troubled South Carolinkies? Ooh! What an intriguing idea...that has real potential...

Caroline, does Jennifer really appear in your dreams? I would have thought you'd want CF all to yourself! Yes,Susan, she does, or did. She was a bit of a pest. I got rid of her by writing on topic43....... As for keeping CF to myself, well, that's impossible. I see him in the supermarket, in the garden, in the basement,in crowds, everywhere.He smiles when I smile, when my husband smiles, dogs smile at him;-). I hear his voice in the forest, in the bath,even in the classroom. The man is everywhwere:-)

Caroline: The man is everywhwere:-) oh my........;-)

What if we do the MORTE D'ARTHUR with Colin as Lancelot & JE as Guinevere? And wouldn't it be interesting to see these two in yet another version of JANE EYRE? It would also be fun to see them as the medieval lovers Heloise & Abelard.

In this same path : Would they be to old for Tristan and Iseult ?

Kali-I think we should pool our resouces together, contact JN's agent, and make our own movie! One question-was your enthusiasm based primarily on the House of Mirth suggestion? That's my favorite-everytime I re-read that book, I see our dashing Jeremy Knightley!

This seems too obvious, but CF and JE as Heathcliff and Cathy. And how about an adaptation of Kate Chopin's the Awakening with Emma Thompson as the doomed Edna Pontellier, with either CF or JN as her younger lover. Being a JN person, though, I would love to see JN in a re-make of the Prisoner of Zenda. The mere thought of JN in another period drama( in a dual role no less) ,where he is once again so noble and vulnerable a la Mr Knightley, (complete with swashbuckling, sword-fighting duel at the end) is en ugh to send me in a Mrs Bennett-like swoon.

Heloise & Abelard. A Horrible thought! Garrotted, yes. Castrated????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tristan and Iseult Nice idea, as long as they go easy on the silly hats Can anyone see CF in a comedy?After all, he didn't do too badly The Advocate.

I would say Jane Eyre with CF ans Mr. Rotchester and S. Harker as Jane Eyre.

Is Helena Bonham Carter too old for Colin? They might make an interesting pair.

I believe "Fever Pitch" is a comedy--at least a Romantic Comedy--so we'll be able to see how he handles it. Very well, I would imagine!;-)

Amy: Is Helena Bonham Carter too old for Colin? They might make an interesting pair. Surely HBC is younger than Colin.

She still leaves at home with her parents.

She still lives at home with her parents.

When she was last on Dave, I thought she said something about being either 30 or older. She lives with her parents in part because she likes them!

That is exactly what she said,Ann.

Re Response 29--"Is Helena B-C too old... I read somewhere she was born in 1966. I read somewhere else (not sure where) that she is going to be in 7 Little Australians w/ CF.

Cassandra: Both! :) Shall we go door to door for donations? We need to show his agent that we've got the cash to make the flick! ;) Maybe Edith Wharton will lobby the Big Man Upstairs for us?

#21 Caroline The man is everywhere. And I thought I had it bad!! #23 amy2 CF and JE in Jane Eyre I love it, but how on earth would they make CF as ugly as Rochester is supposed to be? I believe it's an impossibility. #29 Amy Is HBC too old? I'm sure not; what a lovely couple they would make!

I completely agree-Kali. Why should we compromise-let's make both. Maybe you could produce and star opposite him in one film, and I'll take the other. Any acting experience???

] I read somewhere she was born in 1966. I read somewhere else (not sure where) that she is going to be in 7 Little Australians w/ CF. __ Thanks, Maud. I didn't think she looked old, but she must have been a baby in ARWAV, though she looked more like a baby in Lady Jane.

Kali-its comforting finding not only a fellow Janeite, but a fellow Wharton fanatic. What are your favorites? I read in the favorite books topic that you are reading Fast and Loose. I desperately want to get a copy of this-I hear its a lot like the Buccaneers and House of Mirth. To get back to JN-frankly, I think he would be perfectly cast in any future Wharton adaptation, better than DDL or Greg Wise.(although I did enjoy the recent adaptations of the Buccanners and Age of Innocence, they lacked that add d quality-JN) For me, he is Knightley, Seldon, Newland, Martin, Guy, Nick. Well, you get the point. Let's start pooling money!

Caroline : Can anyone see CF in a comedy?After all, he didn't do too badly The Advocate. He did pretty well indeed, and, not wanting to be an heretic, I much prefered i bit of comedy than his love scene. He is gifted, that man Don't you dare, Cheryl ;) Comedy would really become him.

Let's do it, Cassandra! I'm not an actress, but I bet I could make a competent go of it...have you acted? My favorite Wharton novels are the Buccaneers, Age of Innocence, and yes, HOM!

He did pretty well indeed, and, not wanting to be an heretic, I much prefered i bit of comedy than his love scene. He is gifted, that man Agree absolutely, Johanne! I thought he was really good in the court scenes,even the bit of slapstick where the door frame falls on him wasn't bad.And the bit in the baths, Cheryl, ........;-)

I think he should stay away from singing though. As in THE ENGLISH PATIENT.

Kali-My acting experience is limited(one or two classes at the most:KW-I'm not, but like you, I'm sure I could make a passable Suzy or Lily, especially opposite such a wonderfully talented and handsome co-star! The Wharton novels you listed are all my favorites, too. I just finished the Children which I enjoyed and I also like Summer and of course Glimpses of the Moon. Can't you just see JN on our rain-drenched set, outside Paris-Suzy-But, she's mine! AS for the movie, I wouldn't want to give up too much control(wouldn't want Tom Cruise playing SEldon), but how about contacting Lindsay Doram as a possible backer, partner. She did a wonderful job with S&S! Then, we could co-produce and write the screenplay, a la ET. I already see Oscars!

Hey, if Madonna can get into the Golden Globes, why can't we win an oscar? ;) But I already have a contract with Arnessa to play Isabella Thorpe in a new Northanger Abbey...that has to come first!

REg. Madonna-my sentiments exactly. On Oscar night, we can thank the people who made all of this possible: EW, JN, and of course the P&P2 BB! Isabella Thorpe-very interesting. It's been a while since I read NA-She's Catherine's know-it-all friend?? My favorite character was always Henry's sister-whose father never loved her so much until the day of her very advantageous marriage ceremony. That line, which I've just butchered, (where's my copy of NA whn I need it) is one of my all time favorites from JA. And, of course JN would make a superb Henry Tilney!

As for Helena Bonham Carter (who, incidentally, was fun to see in Woody Allen's Mighty Aphrodite): The Boston Globe suggested that her significant other these days is Kenneth Branaugh (kind of an Austen connection there, if you count ex-wives).

JE&CF as B&B in MUCH ADO ?

Yes, Cassandra...JN would make a delectable Henry Tilney...:) ...and Isabella was Catherine's smarmy golddigger freind...

Kali-I'm beginning to think that there is not a movie, film adaptation of my favorite novels, re-make, miniseries.....that he wouldn't be perfect starring in! Since seeing Emma last august, my feelings for JN have ripened into a deeper feeling, more beautiful and pure. Dare I name it? Can this be love?

Great-Now I'm ripping off lines from RHett Butler!

Kali-I'm beginning to think that there is not a movie, film adaptation of my favorite novels, re-make, miniseries.....that he wouldn't be perfect starring in! Since seeing Emma last august, my feelings for JN have ripened into a deeper feeling, more beautiful and pure. Dare I name it? Can this be love?

Cassandra, we are definitely on the same wavelength! And I must admit that Rhett has a line applicable in almost any conversation...

Agreed! My favorite (Rhett to Scarlett): "Ive always felt that a good beating with a buggy whip would benefit you immensely."

Agreed! My favorite (Rhett to Scarlett): "Ive always felt that a good beating with a buggy whip would benefit you immensely." This is one of the reasons I don't like GWTW. There are others.

Agreed! My favorite (Rhett to Scarlett): "Ive always felt that a good beating with a buggy whip would benefit you immensely." This is one of the reasons I don't like GWTW. There are others.

You can say that again Myretta. Why do you like this line Amy2.

You can say that again Myretta. I apparently did.

Oh, I adore GWTW, the book and the movie. And Rhett Butler-despite all his wit and bravado is essentially a tortured man(torn between his passionate love for Scarlett and his knowledge of her Ashley-obsession) and tortured heroes have always been my favorite. Plus-he is capable of great kindness-his treatment of Melanie, Bonnie, and the way he comforts Scarlett after her nightmares. AS Cheryl would say, OOH Baby! My only problem with the movie-not enough of my favorite scenes from the book were included. I would have loved to have seen VL pace the floor, dreading that Sister Sue would write a letter to Frank and ruin her plans. Still why quibble about perfection and CG as Rhett. That's probably the onlr role I wouldn't want JN or CF to play. Gable is and always will be Rhett!!!

What about Timothy Dalton as Rhett?

I'm with Myretta here (as a good sister should be!) I've never liked GWTW, I cringed thru so many parts of it the only time I've seen it that I've never ventured to view it again...tortured heroes are fine, but not ones who desire to beat the object of their "affections"! No "ooh baby's" from me here, Cass.

Elaine:/What about Timothy Dalton as Rhett?/ That was no Rhett, that was no Scarlett, and that wasno sequel--a made for TV movie that IMHO should never have been made!

Cheryl-I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Granted, Rhett Butler is no gentlemen but he's the first one to admit it-I'm neither noble or heroic. Profit and profit alone. I suppose this is one of the qualities fans adore-his lack of hypocrisy. Plus, he's the only one, besides Mammy, to see through Scarlet's dimples and ready charm. To use the vernacular, Scarlet gave as good as he did. They were made for each other. Another of his more colourful, astute observations that I love. We're scoundrels, rotten to the core. But able to look things square in the eye and call them by their name.

How about Anna Pekkin as Sara Crewe (talking about Jane Eyre)? A Little Princess is one of my favorite books, and she fits the part perfectly. After I saw the MOVIE Little Princess, I couldn't stop searching for somebody that will do the part better, the acterss that played Sara in the movie just wasn't the thing.

I love the Little Princess, too, Ayelet. Have you seen the Shirley Temple version? She is not the definitive Sara either, but that's the version I grew up with, and I keep one of the excessively soft places in my heart for it.

GWTW does reflect the social climate in which the author lived. Even those blessed with the insight to see some of their culture's faults will not see them all. But it is a great book and I reread it every few years.

I have not read it in years, but used to be very fond of GWTW and read it at least a half dozen times from ages, maybe 15-25. I don't know how I would see Rhett now.

Here is a real role for an Austen actor. Frank Churchill (aka Ewan McGregor) will be on an episode of ER, holding people hostage I believe, on February 13.

Annie baby! Thank you sooo much!! I love Ewan McGregor!! What a babe! One of my fave actors on my fave show! Also is in one of my fave movies, Trainspotting, which everyone should definitely check out!

Anyone remember The Forsyte Saga? I read somewhere recently that the BBC is thinking of a remake. They are thinking about big stars for the leads--Jeremy Irons was mentioned--but how about this: Soames Forsyte . . . . . . . . . . . . . Jeremy Northam Irene Forsyte . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Greta Schacchi (Mrs. Weston in Emma2) Fleur . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Gwyneth Paltrow or Kate Winslet Young Jolyon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .David Bamber (seriously! I've seen him in other roles and he'd be fine) June . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Jennifer Ehle Philip Bossinney . . . . . . . . . . . . .Jeremy Northam (decisions, decisions) Helene (the governess who marries Young Jo) . . . . . . . . . . . Anna Chancellor Winifred Dartie . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Juliet Stevenson Holly . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Lucy Davis (Maria Lucas)

Anne3-Wasn't the Forsyte sage-a big MGM forties film with Errol Flynn and Greer Garson? And I agree with your casting choices(especially-JN-decision, decisiion indeed!) With such a marvelous talent, how could a film go wrong? Yet another suggestion: How about Noel Coward's Private Lives with Jeremy as Elliot and GP as Amanda? I would love to hear him say-Moonlight can be cruelly deceptive. Plus, I hear he can sing. Or what about a re-make of Brief Encounter with JN in the Trevor Howard role opposite Amanda Root: Two married people meet, fall in love, and separate, all to Rachmaninoff's piano concerto no. 2.

Cassandra, the Forsyte Saga I was referring to was a long (20+ episodes, I think) BBC serial done in the late sixties, starring Eric Porter, Nyree Dawn Porter and Kenneth More. It was wildly popular at the time and really started the trend towards mini-series. It's seldom shown these days because, I think, it was shot in black & white. But you're right, there was also a movie version (called That Forsyte Woman) done in 1949 with Flynn and Garson.

I like GWTW very much, Cass...and as for Rhett and some of his strong words: he could never bring himself to actually hurt Scarlett. He was essentially a kind man who survived as best he could by outsmarting every other dishonest jerk in North America. It was Scarlett who did all the hurting in that relationship.

Wasn't he a Riverboat Gambler?

Kali - GWTW - I thought the same the first few times I read the book - but Rhett is twice Scarlett's age and encourages all her weaknesses. His virtues he seems almost ashamed of and never tries to lead gently and lovingly towards them as he does the weaknesses. Scarlett was an incredibly strong and honorable person in the areas in which honor actually counts - nursing soldiers (even though she hated it), taking care of Melanie during the Atlanta seige, creating a life for her family on Tara after the w r, even saving Tara by marrying Mr. Kennedy. Rhett adored that strength and honor but deliberately corrupted it until he hated the result. Imagine the difference in Scarlett had someone set about to appreciate her strenghts instead of always focusing on her weaknesses.

He could stand the thought that Scarlett could and would survive without him.

Kali-I completely agree. I've always seen the Rhett and Scarlett relationship in a similar way. Behind all the masculine bravado and street smarts, Rhett was basically a good person-his treatment of Melanie, his devotion to Bonnie. He even joins the cause at the last minute when Atlanta falls and saves Ashley, his rival for Scarlett's affections. Whereas, I don't think I could say the same thing for Scarlett. Although I admire and love her strength, charm, and survivor instincts-I don't think I would call her good or to use Katy's phrase-honourable. She only volunteered at the Hospital because she was still concerned about her reputation(Her mother might hear)and taking care of Melanie was her way of holding on to Ashley. The relationship is high tragedy. Rhett is madly in love with her from the beginning, but he's afraid to show how much, masking his feelings with witty remarks. I like when he says to Scarlett-you take people's love and devotion and turn it against them.

Anne3- I'll back you on the Forsyte Saga, especially with David Bamber- he deserves better than to be remembered as Mr Collins for ever.

I have always been dismayed that Margaret Mitchell was so blatantly racist in GWTW. Her black characters fulfill the worst stereotypes of the south of the 1930's and 40's. Particularly Prissy---foolish, superstititous, ignorant---whose mother attributes her stupidity to her father, a field hand. Yes, I know that the novel was set in the Civil War, but Mitchell was also mirroring the south of her present and the south (sadly) that is still not-to-far under the veneer of polite society today. When I was a child in the 1960's, in Tennessee, we had an African exchange student (from our Presbyterian missionaries in Zaire) come to our town for an extended visit. I can still remember the gasp of astonishment that arose from our congregation when he was introduced and the shocked whisper of the old lady in front of me, "He's a nigger!" First and foremost, that was the thought of the entire congregation. This is the attitude that Mitchell helps perpetuate in GWTW, that the movie reinforces. That it is fair to judge people by skin-color, that servants deserve no better than their lot in life. Mitchell would have done better to take Austen's cue and ignore extraneous details and should have focused entirely on the romance.

I am going to steam a little here. I will agree that Margaret Mitchell's book, written in the 1930's, does not meet the politically correct standards of the 1990's - anymore than Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn does. I watch movies from the 40's and before - made in liberal, progressive California and blush to think of the reactions of blacks watching them today. Holiday Inn, famous as the birth place of White Christmas, springs easily to mind here. Casablanca does also. I am ashamed of every such instance. I certainly agree that MM's book would have been even better if she had risen above black stereotypes as she was able to rise above white stereotypes in this book. Men and women, rich and poor, aristocratic and up-from-proverty and still-poor, she was able to depict them all as real people not limited by stereotypes. For that matter, Casablanca and Holiday Inn would have been better films with a little less dependence on black stereotypes. Huckleberry Finn would have been a better book if Twain had carried his progressive ideas to their moral conclusion and cleaned up his language a bit. But perhaps he did not know that in the late 20th century, the 'n' word would be the one word most hated. The south does not have a monoply on racism in this country. We hear of new racial violence in New York, Boston, Detroit, Chicago, LA everyday. It gets worse as the economy gets worse. The more the national economy becomes depressed (as the south's was for a century after the war) the more we will see nazi-like hate groups spring up looking for scapegoats and the more violence we are going to see all across America.

If you hate stereotypes, please do not use them in discussing the south!

"anymore than Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn does" But does it? or does it use them to force people to re-examine their prejudices. I never had to read Huck in school (a glaring failure of an otherwise good education), when I finally read it last year, I absolutely and literally cheered when Huck decided he didn't have to treat Joe badly just because he is black. It is one of the most wonderful moments in all of literature. As for Hollywood, I wonder about the black face number from "Babes in Arms". Here we have Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney parading around in blackface in front of probably 100 black actors and musicians. Were Garland and Rooney aware of what they were doing. Was there any consciousness on that set to the import of that scene. Was there any communication between the leads and the black actors. It makes me wonder.

Although I do not feel equal to the argument, let me try to clarify. I know that racism is a national shame, but racism in the south comes with it's own special twists. Public schools still proudly call themselves "the Rebels" and wave the Rebel flag and play Dixie as a pep song. The whites of these communities do not care that it is offensive to blacks---they are "celebrating their heritage." I scarcely know of a white person in the south who does not firmly believe, without consideration for educati n, wealth, or intelligence, that he is better than a black man, any black man. In the south we still see color first. Am I a racist? I try not to be. I try to avoid those who blatantly are. But I am white, I am a southerner, and I've had advantages my entire life that are basic, but denied to blacks. People believe I am capable because I am white. I have automatic respect in my community because I am white. I have always been able to live where I want because I am white. I don't have to be racist in a society which hands me the plums of life because I'm white. The point of all this? My point, and I'm not at all certain that I've been coherent, is that I refuse to be a racist. I refuse to revel in the glory of the Old South, because it was not a glorious time. I refuse to consider reading the book or watching the movie of GWTW, because it perpetuates that which I am trying not to be. By the way, my maiden name is Mitchell, I have read GWTW several times and seen the movie previously. But the last reading/viewing left a sour taste in my mouth and I'll not do it again.

We have a saying : Autres temps, autres moeurs which can be translated in Other times, other ways ("moeurs" also conveys the sense of morals, manners and morality)

There was a PBS program about the life of Alan Turing and the woman lead in it, I believe, is being discussed elsewhere here. Does anyone know her name? The screen credits flew by too fast.

"I scarcely know of a white person in the south who does not firmly believe, without consideration for education, wealth, or intelligence, that he is better than a black man" I am sorry your experience in your own part of the country has been so limited. I am not a southerner, although I have lived here all my life. Most of the people I know are southerners. Most of the people I went to college with in the 1960's were southerners. On my campus, southerners were the backbone of the civil rights movement. Of course I have known southern racists (as well as northern racists), but I have also learned the truth of an old proverb: 'consider the source'. I have never met an open racist who did not eventually prove to have major character flaws in other areas as well. But 60 years ago, many of views that could only be considered racist today were considered 'common knowledge'. Did you see an episode of Picket Fences last season in which the controversy centered around the early Encylopedia Britanica article on blacks? GWTW reflected the time in which it was written just as that encylopedia article did. I will not give up Encylopedia Britanica because it erred so much years ago. I wish your namesake had the same opportunity to correct her errors. I bet she would.

Ann: As for Hollywood, I wonder about the black face number from "Babes in Arms". Here we have Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney parading around in blackface in front of probably 100 black actors and musicians. Were Garland and Rooney aware of what they were doing. I think probably not. When I was in 5th grade - in the '50s in California in a parochial school - a variety show was put on in which each class took part, and in which the 5th and 6th grade students sang Stephen Foster songs - in blackface. We had one black girl in our class. I have no idea how she felt about it, and have no recollection of anyone even wondering about it. At that time it was not an issue that was in the public consciousness.

] "I am not a southerner, although I have lived here all my life." Sorry, but you are, by basic definition, a southerner. ]the reference to my 'limited experience' A tad bit judgmental, aren't we? What do you know of me except what I've decided to share? And what do you have to accuse me of except that I've made a decision not to read a novel because of it's callous treatment of a group of people----I also have decided not to read Stephen King anymore because I believe it is harmful to my psyche----is that all right with you? ]"I have never met an open racist who did not eventually prove to have major character flaws in other areas as well." Fine and good. But the racism I was speaking of is not out in the open. Open racists are easy to find---their hate washes over everything they do. I am speaking of the racism that is hidden in each of us. Denial of its existance does not make it go away. ]Encyclopedia Brittanica Oh, please. Of course I read the encyclopedia when necessary, despite what was written 60, 70, 100 years ago. But I don't use a vintage edition, nor do I believe you do. As for GWTW, read it if it gives you pleasure. It is my 16 year old daughter's favorite book and film. I would deny no pleasure of hers, nor yours. But allow me, a 40 year old woman, the luxury of being able not to read a book if I find it offensive for any reason. And I will allow you the luxury to disagree with me, because it is y ur right. In fact, let's agree to disagree on this issue and go on from here, I desire no enemies. But it seems I have made one, all the same. Live and learn. BTW----Margaret Mitchell is not my namesake, nor am I hers. I was named for my mother's friend.

Ok, Margaret. My issue with you is not what books you choose to read or how you define 'namesake' or 'southerner'. My issue is that even as you tell us how much you dislike stereotypes, you stereotype all southerners as racist bigots. Southern stereotypes have been the mainstay of TV for years. This is the only ethnic group in America that it is still proper to make fun of. TV depictions of the south and southerners got a little better in the late 70's when Carter was president, but as soon as Reagan was elected, southerners on TV dwindled back down into the fools and crooks that TV-land preferred. Even Murder She Wrote, when it featured a southern landscape, pulled up characters out and costumes out of a Lillian Hillard play instead of anything remotely resembling anyone or anything I had ever known. As a youngster, I bought into the shame of living in the south and attending southern schools while all my cousins attended the superior New York and Chicago and Toronto schools. I was mortified by the dreadful resistence to the civil rights movement and thought things were happening here that could never happen in the morally superior North. But every year, I see more and more evidence that the moral and intellectual superiority of the North over the South is as foolish a fantasy as the superiority of one race over another. The eastern seaboard has always had segragation. They called it 'restricted neighborhoods' but it guaranteed that WASPs did not have to associate with non-WASPs. It has racial hatred and violence that seems to be ready to set a nation on fire. But if a racial problem occurs outside the south, it is described as an Amer can problem. If is occurs inside the south, it reflects only the south. Sometimes, I think we should seed buses of freedom riders to Boston and straighten them out. I am hoping for the day that it becomes as politically incorrect to describe my adopted home in unflattering stereotypes as it is to describe any other minority in unflattering stereotypes. In the meantime, it would be nice to know that southerners are beginning to see each others and themselves as people and not comic representations of someone else's stereotypes.

Believe me the problems of racism are not only a southern problem. I grew up in one of the most segregated cities in the US--Milwaukee, WI. There are black area of town and white areas of town. There are areas in parks where the blacks hang out and areas where the whites hang out. Though in one case these areas are across the street from eachother, there is little or no mingling. It is even segregated among the white population, Germans tend to be on the north side and Poles on the south. Until I came to inneapolis and saw blacks in the same areas as whites, and even blacks and whites together, I didn't realise how segregated Milwaukee was. It was quite a shocking revelation. I am happy to say, though, that the high school I went to had black homecoming kings two years in a row (our school elected homecoming kings and prom queens), so at our school at least blacks were well accepted and a part of the mainstream social culture. It is hard to say how deep the segregation in Milwaukee goes and whether it is more geographic or philosophic.

"Southern stereotypes have been the mainstay of TV for years. This is the only ethnic group in America that it is still proper to make fun of. " Don't forget Minnesotans in Fargo, you betcha.

Ann - I have to admit that Betty White broke new ground with her endless St. Olaf stories on Golden Girls.

I too am sorry Margaret Mitchell presented the KKK in a positive light in GWTW and portrayed blacks stereotypically, but I think we have to remember that she wrote the book in the 1930's -- a time when racial hatred was at its peak. Germany being the ultimate proof. However, I do think that Mammy has a grace & a wisdom which supercedes both Scarlett's and Rhett's. Hattie McDaniel's speech to Melanie when Rhett refuses to leave the body of Bonnie is to me just a brilliant moment in cinema. Please also r member that the film allowed McDaniel to become the first black actor to win a major Oscar in 1939. And for the time, this was no small thing.

Re #87: Terry you asked about "Breaking the Code" and the woman in it -- she was Amanda Root who plays Anne in "Persuasion" and is being discussed under that topic. I liked "Breaking the Code", and I always love to see Derek Jacobi.

Very true, Amy2...Mammy is one of the most insightful people in the entire story. We need to put the novel and the film into perspective, so that we might be able to appreciate its real merits. I always saw GWTW as a feminist novel, personally... Right, Cass...I cannot call Scarlett "honorable," either...whenever Rhett was about to reach out to her, she abruptly pushed him away. She was ready to run off with another woman's husband, stole her own sister's beau (any thought on her part that Suellen would forget all about Tara and the property taxes once she married is pure rationalization on Scarlett's part, I think...), sold green wood from her lumberyard, refused charity to her impoverished debtors (at Franks store), hired prison labor whom she aid an "overseer" to work to the point of illness, skipped out on Dr. Mead and her nursing duties when the going got tough, etc., etc., etc. ...If it weren't for her promise to Ashley, I don't wonder that she would have left Melanie to the Yankees at Aunt Pitty's! Scarlett is the epitome of selfishness. She is forever a child. Still, I can appreciate her - she has sense, and she gets along. But she has trouble getting along with others. She is just too manic to take the time to connect with them. And as far as I'm concerned, that two-faced Cathleen Calvert and that ninny India Wilkes can just go take their jealousy and...well, now I'm getting carried away. ;)

I agree with both Kali's and Cassandra's takes on Scarlett, but I've always been slightly more lenient with her. She's a master of rationalization, but she's also occasionally torn by "real" guilt--I believe that she can recognize good in other people (specifically her mother, whom she characterizes as saint-like) and simply cannot reconcile her selfishness and impulsiveness with what she believes to be goodness. So, she believes herself "bad," and uses it to excuse her behavior (and to dismiss the Mela ies of the world), even though she is capable of doing good. Her main failing, to my mind, is in the aftermath of the "as God is my witness" speech--her strength, resilience, and will to survive become subsumed by her vow to never again experience want ("no, nor any of her kin!"). She transfers all her energy to the accumulation of material possessions, in order to stave off any possibility of poverty. She does become manic, and only learns the importance of the human element in her life when it is too late--Melanie dies, and Rhett leaves. Of course, this is Sca lett we're talking about, so I'm not sure whether she will take the lesson to heart, or if she'll resort to her old ways.....

I think I always saw Scarlett as Rhett saw her: Selfish, scheming, ignorant, a vixen, but also imbued with the incredible capacity to withstand ANYTHING in life and to hold on fiercely to those she loved. Maybe we should go back to Scarlett's literary predecessor: Becky Sharp in Thackeray's VANITY FAIR, to get a greater understanding of her.

Amy--unfortunately, I am not familiar enough with Vanity Fair (skimmed it in a survey course; avoided those questions on the exam--bad student, bad!) that it would help--perhaps you could elaborate? I suppose I am always amazed that even with all of Scarlett's faults (and they are numerous, indeed) the reader really roots for her. We are placed almost in Rhett's position: we see all of her shortcomings, and yet we are drawn to her. A testament to the authoress, I guess.