OK, one historical babe i can think of right now, Audrey Hepburn.

1. lizzy montgomery 2. audrey hepburn (of course!) 3. ummmm 4. ummmm again 5. need to research this a bit :)

got a pic of ummmm??? *grin*

1. Brigitte Bardot 2. Sophia Loren 3. Jane Fonda 4. Grace Kelly 5. Farrah Fawcet

Jane Fonda???? Okaaaayyyyy...... Sophia Loren, now there's one, class all the way and Grace Kelly! (can't think of any men right now, gimme a few)

ooo, I know one.....Sean Connery. Yup. May not be dead, but he's a babe for sure and will always be one (just keeps getting better)

Well, you never saw Barbarella?

They have to be dead?

no, but that's what started the topic... (and no, i didn't)

What's the definition of an allowable babe in this topic? What's "historical"?

ask Autumn *giggle* someone brought up a dead babe in top 5 babes and Autumn suggested a new topic to cover that, so here it is. guess an historical babe would be anyone that has and forever will be a babe (timeless)

(as opposed to someone who's HOT now, trendy)

5. cleopatra 4. deirdre 3. helen 2. guinevere 1. natalie (not sure i entirely understand this topic, but giving it my best shot)...

good try, though. (about time you showed yourself)

okay... so i blew it... will try again... 5. carole lombard 4. ella raines 3. audrey hepburn 2. maureen o'hara 1. natalie (better?) (and... um... showed myself fer what?)

was wonderin' where you were.... didn't blow anything. the babes don't HAVE to be dead!

all of first batch are pretty dead... (except for natalie, of course, who is deathless)...

no way, and here i thought cleo was living next door to me *wink* (i gotta go, am getting a wake up call at o'dark-thirty)

1. Catherine the Great 2. Cleopatra 3. Mata Hari 4. Elizabeth Sader-Masoch 5. Delilah 6. Lillith (going on reputations, of course!)

1. Claire. Schwoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon....................

Congratulations Nick (list 1) and wer, who are the only 2 who understood what I meant when I said dead & historical! (although Audrey Hepburn is just adorable, Mike!)

can necrophilliacs blush?

(who'd really notice, if they did?)

(theoretically)

Ingrid Bergman was quite pretty. Boy, would I like to see a theoretically blushing necrophilliac!

*blush*

ha-ha! was that a theoritical or a proper blush?

virtual...

and are you a necrophiliac???

No, probably not . . . but I bet he likes playing the dead body . . . while virtually blushing.

alas, no... there's gotta be some sorta feedback (whether it's negative or not...)

I always give my bodies feedback . . . as long as they lie still.

You have more than one body? Are you your sister, too? Do people get you two confused very often? Not when you're both together & one of you is lying still and the other isn't? *smile* ok it's a goofy smile but it's still a smile (ok, now the smile is lying still)

Good, let me just rip off your cardigan, then I'll answer. (kiss) No, I have only one body - a short one . . . but I'm very, very strong to make up for lack in length . . (lick) No, if I were my sister too, we'd be triplets! (stroke) No, people don't confuse us. We look the same, but are too different in personality to be confused. She's much nicer. (BITE!) How dare you call my arse voluptuous?!?! That sounds like fat!

Oh. No, please...uh-uh, not that....just tremendously shapely. Voluptuous arse to me means: when there's movement, there's this really cool jiggly action going all through the contour of it's form, and the form is full-bodied and and and and it's got this mysterious energy running all through it, too, and and and and and I just can't hold on, y'know?, and I drop all my cookies and lose my marbles and and and and there's this other new kinda emotion it starts giving me and it's huge and i begin filling up....all this new room for visual emotion starts filling up and and and inarticulate stories start aiming at my very very personal imagination and and and and.....and why does this happen to me? Riette, what are you doing?

I'm actively forgiving you, that's all. Do you mind? But don't let me stop you from talking; I adore that howdy-accent of yours, and all the strange unearthly things you talk of when you're trying to divert my attention from your hands and the things they get down to and under. Like just now. Stop it! No, do it again, I like it more and more. . . .

and I like your definition of voluptuous!

There's that "energy" allusion again!

I always knew I was made of Louis Armstrong leftover bits of energy - hence the voice.

Jenna Jamenson stands out in my mind as a spectacular example of feminism.

Hi, John, where did you come from? Nice to have a new voice on the spring. Jenna Jemenson? Who was she? What did she say and do, and did she truly make a change?

she's an adult film star...

So by doing, and excuse the vulgarity, a pussy parade, she changed things for women?? I am very sceptical here. Because for me that has nothing to do with feminism. Could she actually make a statement without having to buy approval?

I'm sure she made a statement... and got paid for it! Hey John... look around the spring. We've got MUCH more beyond 'SEX' and 'BABES' literally AND figuaratively!

even if most of our topics are littered with MUCH more SEX AND BABES...

Looks like he's obstinately resisting our charms . . .

i think we need another topic for debbie does dallas, that way there is no confusion on what our definition of babe is....oh, wait, i get it, john was being antagonistic to see what our reaction would be. way to go john!

Wow, could it be . . . Wolf!

let's see... if it looks like a wolf, acts like a wolf, tastes like a wolf, then it must be... an Elke!

oh wer, never knew you got a bite outta me (was it in the dark couch room?)

if'n you don't remember it doesn't matter...

did you draw blood? you must've cuz i don't remember a thing *wink* (good to see you, was wondering where everbody went!)

well, I went to work...(imagine that!) nope, wasn't really a bite, maybe just a few quick licks...

well, that'll do it too. i'm enjoying a few days off (well-earned, screw the office)!

know what? i subscribed to genx but now am getting all kinds of garbage. maybe you should include that as a warning at the genx topic (btw, luv what you did over there)

sheesh, was it something i said? (sorry)

nope, I think the extra traffic in the modjane conf is really slowing things down for the rest of us...both me and Riette are getting really slow connections...you having any problems with speed? (sorry about the genx mailing list...somedays it brings in a few hundred responses...but I thought it said that on the page where you sign up...my apologies, again...)

What is the meaning of modjane?? Mod-jane, you Tarzan?

*laughing* i had to ask that one too, i'm clueless with all this modern slang!

Well, I have in the mean time found out that it's a discussion of Jane Austen's book characters in modern settings. Something like that. But I had a look, and hadn't a clue! It looks like people talk sense there - a very difficult thing if one's been in our kind of discussions for a few months . . . But this is fun. I can't talk sense all the time, it would drive me insane!

modjane is slowing me down here, i think. time to introduce some spring-fees, i think.

you know, Mike, Terry's running this off a 486 which he is in the process of replacing with a new, speed demon Pentium so speed shouldn't be such an issue in the very near future...and, I wonder, would you voice the same feelings if your conferences were generating the same amount of traffic?

Should we change the background to bloody red here? No, I know, I'll just keep out - I've had more than my share of BOOM-WOOM-BAM, so I'll just keep quiet and watch. Your go, Mike!

if two hundred people were checking in here every day, and nowhere else, then i'd be just as pissed off. and that is a fact, not a posturing. the only way to make this place grow is to get people out of the "tunnel vision" mentality. there is more than Drool. There is more than Babes. There is more than modjane. if you think i'm "jealous", wer, then get over it. i couldn't care less what the stats for individual conferences are. the only thing i care about re: the spring, is the spring. why do you think i spend so much time here? i don't have a free connection to the net, and i pay through the nose both for my internet connection and my telephone charges.

I also find it a shame that some people only go to one conference all the time - well, I suppose with the number of topics they have there, they can't really help it. But there IS more than Drrrrrrooool and Modjane to be had from the spring - alot of fun people are missing out on. Shall we send Stacey there to lure a few of the men there over? And when the men come, the women will come, and we'll be one big, happy and unhappy family.

"tunnel vision" mentality...you mean like telling everyone that we need a redesign, a more "corportate face"?...like not letting go of a minor conflict that was resolved? Is it stuff like that you're talking about, Mike? You know, Nan, whom you repeatedly take punches at (or at least her conference), will not post in my conferences because of your comments? That she does so as a courtesy, because she doesn't want another conflict? Not because she is being "controlled" but because she is being thoughtful in a situation that she knows could negatively impact the Spring as a whole. Have you been to drool since she put a link to "babes" in her conference header, another courtesy to someone who repeatedly takes pot shots at her? If your only concern is the good of the Spring, then please start using tact with the other participants. I ask this as a fellow host, as a member of this community, and as a person that shares alot more with you than I can explain, and most importantly, as an admirer of your work that would lose out on an enriching part of my existence. We must stop the infighting and work as a team. All of our goals are the same, even if we go about things differently, and yes, I realize I am probably the most different one on here...

Wrong, muffin. Would have liked to have said that isn't me . . . But guys, we're all right and we're all wrong here. Main thing is to remain loyal to and support each other, despite our differences. We are all friends, and in friendship conflict sometimes arise (don't I know!) but we must simply stick together through it, kiss and make up as soon as we can, otherwise these conferences WILL fall apart. We are too few people here to be falling out with one another all the time. If three or four of us get into a fight, that's about HALF our part of the spring gone. nd you two are two of the people upon whom our being here depends most, the guys with the cool moves. Please let neither of you deprive us of that. And our resolve IS still to keep going till we're 80, isn't it? So come on, let's have some more cheesecake and march on, oh, fellow Spring Liberators! I love you both. Sorry I'm such a rotten peacemaker.

>"tunnel vision" mentality...you mean like telling everyone that we need >a redesign, a more "corportate face"? there's a difference between "telling" and "suggesting", which I imagined you would have learned by now. I quote from the topic introduction: [porch 33.0] >If we were to do a complete and utter overhaul of the Spring's layout, while >keeping the Yapp software, what should we change? the operative word, of course, being IF. A more "corporate" (read, consistent) face is a good idea; that is my opinion, but a fact. I am again suggesting that we make use of that. Frankly, I don't care. The Spring has changed very little since I first logged in here; we have a few regular people who weren't here when I first arrived (like the wonderful Riette :)) but apart from that, zilch. I'm putting out the ideas that I have, in the hope that it will inspire other people, who damn well have better ideas than me. But, if for putting out my ideas, then people are just going to climb into their Reactionary suits and grumble and groan, then I'm not interested.

Mike, you continually grumble and groan about other conferences...not I. If you can't take what you're putting out, then quit complaining and try and get along. And you damn well are interested, or you wouldn't overreact to what you view as attacks...and you do tell me, beyond polite suggesting, what I should or shouldn't be doing with my sites...can you explain to me what it is that I have done that causes you to be antagonistic and patronizing towards me? I will readily admit that most, if not all, of the people are better educated and wealthier than I on here, and I have stated several times that I am basically in reality not a social person having never had the opportunity to learn those skills. I'm ok with all of that, and have had more than one need to apologize for things that I have said on here, and have done so. If anything I say causes anyone else to be uncomfortable about posting or remaining on here, then I need to correct that, especially since I am a host. I even get to play referee and/or mediator, not because I am good at it (that would require being social) but because no one else is doing anything, and everybody that posts on here is a valuable asset to the community. Because of the space and opportunity Terry has freely granted me, I "owe" him this: if someone leaves because of either my actions or inactions, I have abused Terry's trust. My biggest continuing mistake, in my eyes, is continuing to post in the manner that I have become accustomed to, and spending less time performing what I see to be my hostly duties in my conferences. Is this in a rule book anywhere? No. It is my sense of responsibility. Does this mean I think everyone I like to banter with isn't doing their "part"? No. They are because they are posting. Have you ever been in a planned community? I personally hate them because everything is the same, and I highly value individuality. Which is one of the reasons I love this place. Everyone seems to be comfortable at some point being themselves, saying what they feel, being who they are. If Terry does not have a problem with any of our hosting styles, that's great. If he does, I would hope that he would let me know, so that I can change my behavior. If he doesn't, then we shouldn't have problems with each other's hosting styles, either. We do not need to unnecessarily censor each other, there's enough of that egotistical crap in reality. If, in my playing and doing what others on here consider weird in my confs, that's great because something might eventually work. It becomes bad when I stagnate and /or refuse to do something someone else is doing that's working because of personal differences. If you have never talked to Riette about her and my initial war when she branched out from Bronte, please do so. I don't know what else to say to you, and that leaves me feeling like I've let everyone down, both those that love and respect you, and those that, the more I consider things, you inadvertantly hurt because of the way that you say things, not by what you mean.

Sorry for butting in again, but I remember!! ha-ha! Mike, Wer and I were MEAN to each other in the beginning, really. Not disagreeing about the sort of things you two are disagreeing on right now, just THINGS, but getting at each other's characters at times! But at some point, I realized, damn it, I respect this guy! And then after another little while I had to admit to myself that he was actually quite sweet even though I still didn't like him much. Now he is a person I feel I can relate to excellently. With you and Wer one always knows where one stands, you two don't use sugar coated fancy words, you say a thing as it is, one knows you mean what you say when you say it, and therefore one can trust you one hundred percent. That's what makes you two and Terry so popular with us girls. I have great respect for you both, as I'm sure you have for each other. And that is what is important. I say, talk and fight it out if you guys have to (I know most people here will disagree, but personally I prefer the just-let-it-all-out approach), as long as you retain your respect for one another - at some point when all has been said the friendship will naturally start flowing back into your responses again. And don't let this disagreement upset either of you too much - it'll blow over in no time.

right, i'm gonna try and reply, wer, but my eyes are all over the place :-) intelligence and wealth. moot. the way i say things: well, that's just me. i have no problem in someone coming up to me and suggesting that what i might be doing is wrong, or could be changed. i'm not saying that everybody is or should be like me, of course, but this influences my posting style; i am inclined to just come out with what i think could be changed, or to ask people what they think could be changed. this is quite possibly tactless in the eyes of other people. this is just me, i'm afraid. i make new suggestions not to p int out that something is wrong, but that something could be more right, if you can see my distinction. the comment that, i think, started this all off was about modjane slowing down the connection. hang on, i'll clip it in: >modjane is slowing me down here, i think. time to introduce some spring-fees, i think. hehe...you seem to have misinterpreted the point i was trying to make. i'm not annoyed that the server is being slowed down because there are so many people using it - don't you think that's great?! I do! I think it's superb! The thing that upsets me is that what we all pay for in slowness, we - us - don't gain in people. The spring, as a whole, does not benefit, I don't think, from these high-traffic conferences; either in people terms, or in financial ones. unless they start coming o er the wall. or paying some fee. the fee thing is another time - i'll enter a topic about it in the forthcoming meta conference (you heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen). if i have offended you, wer, by posting in the Constructive Criticism topic(s) in your conference(s), then i apologise. my posting here has become "thinking aloud", in the sense that I basically just put down what's in my brain, then press submit. probably my talk about white backgrounds or something hit a nerve, i don't know, but i simply was talking aloud. you can see that, since i changed the background here to white, and it looked crap. so now it's green. as for me talking about the clickthru banner; well, it's up to you, isn't it? and it's up to me what I think about them. I did not come into the conference to pick faults and complain, i came in because you asked me to, and also because the last time i'd popped by, i was impressed. i think restaurants (and/or food), together with Drool, were the first conferences were i'd seen anything but the default banner. that is why i dropped by. then, when i saw the Constructive Criticism topic (another superb idea, which, as you'll see in Babes, I've adopted/copied/stolen, depending on your point of view - for me, imitation is the inest form of flattery, but i guess for some people it's perhaps treading on toes...that's just me again, i guess) I just posted whatever came to mind. there was no big conspiracy, or even intention. perhaps i am just too hyper-critical. the only thing i do after a musical performance is think "could have been better", and start working for the next time. i hardly ever think about what i've done right. and when i'm practising, or designing web stuff, when i show it to other people, an initial "woo!" is nice, but after that, all i'm interested in is what could be improved. i'm afraid i'm just a perfectionist. what can i do? would it be natural for me to just shut my gob when i think of things? (this isn't rhetorical, by the way). I don't feel that would be right, because then that's not "me", in the same way that the crazy innuendo you enjoy with the others should not be stopped just because it doesn't fit with a particular person's view. it's not my cup of tea, but there you go. i've got a page down key, i use it. nuff said. i am a perfectionist, and i am a radical. these two things are me, very much me - probably the two things i can say that i've always been, regardless of what situation i have found myself in life. and i'm comfortable with that. very comfortable, in fact. not a smug comfort, or self-satisfaction, more a...dunno "joy", i guess, that i can cling on to something and say, "YES! THAT is me!" i want to change the world. i want to dump capitalism. i want to do a lot of things, and quite a few of th m are totally barmy. but this is me. as i lumber around changing the world, i will bruise some noses, and break others, and do it without even realising. i don't know what else to say. i've just sat for two minutes and thought about what to write next, but all i've come up with is, "I don't know what else to say.". don't you think it would be great to change the world? i think it'd be ace. get people working together, rather than trying to fuck each other in court. get friendly competition, in a controlled environment, rather than industrial spies, lawsuits and anti-trust mergers. get new buttons for the spring every week, until we find the right comb nation of buttons that makes the whole net population fall to its knees and start sending impromptu checks to terry. accidentally attract a top web designer who suddenly decides he/she wants to give his/her time for free to the spring, and turn it into something even more amazing than it is. someone who knows that combination of buttons, and is quite happy to banter along with us while he/she changes the world together with us. and now i've probably bothered you again with those last two sentenc s ("Do we need a re-design?" - wer), but you see how it happens? I write exactly what comes into my head, and that's it, in black and green. i want to grab everything and turn it upside down, just to see how it re-arranges itself when you do that. or keep something upright, but give it a massive shake to see how it re-settles, and what happens in the in-between. i promise it's not posturing, or egotism, it's just me. oh well. time to submit.

said nothing about intelligence...mentioned education, and you proved why I brought it up...because I'm not technically well educated, some consider that a lack of intelligence... so the point isn't moot...it perfectly illustrates some of my points... the point in different conferences is that people have different interests, if this were not the case, we should have just one conference on here... I don't feel that where the traffic is matters...they are successful with their content, and I would love to be able to duplicate that success in mine got nothing against you commenting on my work, just your manner. for example, in the homepage conference you said about the Austin Cacophony Society, "i'm afraid i won't read the site until you remove the 'Designed for use with Internet Explorer 4'." comes across as arrogant, doesn't it? not friendly or helpful...just trying to point out that the way you say things is detractinc from your intent...people are paying attention the way you say things, not what you are saying, and yes, this is a two way street but when you realize that you have been misunderstood, instead of continuing to comment in the same manner, apologize maybe for the way you said something, not for what you meant. this doesn't change who you are or your message, but might gain more listeners... and yes, I appreciate the flattery, in fact you enhanced the criticism topic with the link in your header...as to the white background, you don't know how many hours I put in trying to find background/text color combinations that were even slightly readable, then to tell me all the work was for naught because we should all be the and plain white was offensive, yes, I had already tried that and rejected it for the same reason you did...am I making any sense? to be clearer and more tactful sacrifices neither principle, perefectionism, or individuality...and to admit that you were wrong, especially when it is your presentation that was flawed and not your content, actually enhances those things just my thoughts...take 'em, ignore 'em, or kill the topic and restart it... I just felt some of these things that both of us have said needed to be pointed out so that there can be more harmony and less discord, even if I have gone about this all in the wrong way... (and you don't know how difficult this was for me...I LOVE discord...Hail Eris!)

just musing... interesting how we all try desperately (and in vain) to avoid discord and maintain a content little virtual community. I get those same butterflies (more like moths, cause they are not as pretty) in my tummy when I see and feel such passionate anger on these pages but I guess, in some way, it makes me a little happy too. It's like affirmation that this is a REAL place. That real people are expressing they're real opinions and other real people are misconstruing the intended meanings, or jumping on the defensive or angrily typing retorts. Of course the warmth and affection and passion are wonderful too. Kinda just like my life. A lot of peoples' lives. Like real life.

I can't tell you how strongly I agree with you, Stacey!! I have felt guilty and wrong at times, thinking I'm the only one who feels like this, and I'm really glad you've voiced that opinion out loud. Ionly speak for myself, of course, but I don't think I would have felt half as at home here if I felt we were all just here to be nice to each other, to hand out compliments and agree with each other all the time like good little boys and girls. And I don't think any real friendship between this small bunch of people could have sprung from it. As it is I don't make any distinction anymore between the friends I see every day and those I speak to here. I look forward to speaking to all of you whenever I can, because the people here are very real and human, and dear to me. I love listening to the things they have to say, because it is always interesting and full of surprises. And the fact that we disagree and get at each other at times is what makes it REAL as the fun times and joking around and deep talk can't on their own, because it shows we are truly at ease with one another - enough so to also tell another when something they say/do/think bothers us. I like that sort of openness. Friendship makes happy, and sad in real life, and it's just the same here. I'm glad of it.

So we've decided that we're real people, and that we have real emotions. That's good, I think. If no-one has any objections, I'm going to freeze this topic as a sign that this little thrash/disagreement is over.