although more and more people are getting personal computers and learning how to connect with the internet, it still is not as widely spread that we can do with out our libraries. The library may be the jumping off place to learn how to connect on your own...but many may not beable to afford a person computer and hook up charges at this stage of their lives...it will have to be made available for research in a public forum..like a library.

The library will live on. It is a place of gathered and ORGANIZED information, remember? Nobody will ever be able to organize the net... and besides, not every book or other media will be translated to web form. And of course, the staff at the libraries know how to find and handle the information, and that's what will be needed. (Just random thoughts from an informatics student... 80)... )

You probably right. Search engines are far from *organized*. Ever the 11,000 replies in haphazard order from a search engine?

Mixu, do you think they ought to apply the Dewey Decimal System to websites?

That would be a good idea, although nobody would want to organize all the tidbits of information in the net. It is a huge undertaking. I'd like to see a new system which is specially made for internet and multimedia... Hmm, maybe I should think about it...

As fun as all this is, it's not the same as holding a book. WER

And curling up with your computer in bed isn't very comfy. Especially when you fall off to sleep and the monitor falls on your face.

And holding it aloft in the first place is a chore.

Ceiling mounted screen, IR keyboard and mouse. WER

Great idea!

There is a romance to libraries, even the glass-and-concrete monsters they build today. Shelf after shelf after shelf of books, most of which you've never read, the almost religious silence that surrounds you, the crisp smell of paper, ink and glue, mixed with the warm scent of so many other people - you just can't get that on your computer. OTOH, Norman Spinrad, in a recent essay on his website, suggested what could best be described as "cyberbooks." His reasoning (more or less): Almost all manuscripts are now put on disk and edited there. Why not make this the mode of distribution also? It is possible now to design and build a reader - something about paperback size, with an LCD screen and long-life batteries (with, possibly, solar chargers). You take it to a bookstore, or log onto a publisher's website (or even the author's!) and down oad into the "e-book's" memory the texts you want. Computer billing could ensure that everyone gets their money. The software could be designed so that it is very difficult to copy books from one reader to aonther. You could have the book in any font size and type ou wish. I don't know - I like the idea. What do you think? This could easily be adapted to a library, also, with time limits in the software.

Still, it is not the same...gotta have those musty, old crisp paper pages betwixt my fingers...

Nothing like the smell of a moldy old tome that's been on the shelf since you were in diapers...

you know dat's right, girlfriend!

Don't you get a thrill when an old piece of paper being used as a bookmark falls out? Like a store list or a drycleaning receipt from 1972? I swear I can sense the person's energy still on that paper--either that or I just mentally go back to 1972 (a' la Proust) and recall the essence of the time...

I love libraries. And they are really romantic, all those books with countless hands on them. Have found the occasional piece of paper as well. Hope they stay around and don't move completely into the electronic age.

Don't think from my above post that I necessarily _want_ libraries to go electronic - I, too, have a paper fixation. My wife and I have about 1000 or so books at last count (our last move, three years ago), and we buy more every month. One of my favorite scenes in a film is in "Something Wicked This Way Comes", when Jonathan Pryce is offering Jason Robard's character his youth in the middle of the library - when I get rich, I'm building that library in my dream home. I think Umberto Eco said it best - "We live for books. A sweet mission in this world filled with disorder and decay." Libraries are endangered mainly because our society is becoming too lazy to read. I heard a mother in the supermarket once tell her unruly child, "If you don't shut up, I'll make you read for an hour when we get home." If my wife had not restrained me, I probably would have exploded. Our schools offer children pizza parties if they read so many books - as if reading were something unpleasant that we should be bribed to do. My wife was a TA at UT while she finished her Master's degree, and in the actin class she taught, she had to constantly explain to her students that an assignment to _read_ a play was exactly that - not a suggestion to see the movie based on the play. Perhaps message boards and chat rooms can make writing interesting again, but I'm a pessimist, so who knows... Yes, students toady on the average know more than their predecessors, and we cannot expect anyone to know all about everything anymore, as we could in the Middle Ages, but Americans seem to be content to suckle at the glass teat and get their weekly ration of "90210" or "The Nanny". Of course, one of the advantages of being a pessimist is that I'm never dissapointed. At worst, I am mildly surprised in a pleasant way. Let's hope I'm surprised...

way too much tv, they offer pizza parties here too. can't imagine not having books and hope that never comes to pass. as long as i'm around, at least, there will be pages of written stuff even if it's only the stuff i've written.

I was so happy when my friend Ray sold me two more bookcases, nice oak ones, plus his computer and Hermann Miller chair for $100 total yesterday. The bookcases alone would have been worth it. I have books stacked all over and stored in the basement.

fav. scene in "something wicked this way comes" relates to something bradbury wrote re: the differences between how men and women relate to time... something about women feeling more secure in it because of their relationship to it, being the possessor's of it, in a way (by virtue of the ability to carry life)... and about the terrible desperation men ultimately feel, in it's wake (esp. at 3 am, the "soul's midnight", i think he said)... odd, perhaps, but i found that scene bone-chilling, perhaps because f the truth i perceived in it or whatever... certainly transcended genre, as bradbury (i thought) so often did...

I need to revisit that Bradbury piece, how powerful.

Love the Eco quote... books come and go with me, I've probably owned almost that many myself, and we currently have well over that amount now, cookbooks and romance novels probably number a thousand total, and the wife got rid of over 300 romance novels last year...

As a general rule I don't believe in owning books, only the select handful that I will re-read over the years or reference books. I feel like I keep my book collection at the library! The value of reading has definitely been instilled in our children, and I just throw those Pizza Hut book logs away when they come home in the backpack. (Although I do confess to "suckling at that glass teat" more than I should!)

I'm a little too much of a packrat to feel as you do - I'm not much on other possessions, but I must have my books! The knowledge that when I've got insomnia, I can get up, make some warm milk or herbal tea, and sprawl in the armchair in the corner and read almost any book I'm in the mood for - that is one of the more comforting thoughts I can have during the course of a day. I still prowl the library when I have the time, although I suffer from the feeling that I could categorize the books better than they librarians. I still remember the day I got my "grownup" card at the neighborhood library in Atlanta. I was finally able to check out more than two books a week, and I could go anywhere in the library I wanted. Barring the unfortunate attempt to read _The Iliad_ in Attic Greek, I covered that library from top to bottom. I think we all worship the TV Cyclops a little too much - you turn it on because there's one show that looks really interesting, like "Babylon 5", but after that, hey! Look! They're showing reruns of "Deep Space Nine"! And over here, there's an interview with Mike Judge! Channel 43 has the latest on the Clinton Investigation! South Park! Before you know it, you've blown the better part of an evening, and you wonder where the time went. That's why I'm so down on it - I'm as susceptible as the next p rson, and that kind of takes away your moral superiority. Back to librarires, though (just call me Non-sequiter Man). I think the best place for librarians now is on the Web. I mean, look at all this information just floating around. If you're a fan of William Burroughs, this is a great way to get a good look at what our society (at least the wired portion thereof) really wants to see. Research? Here? I'd rather throw darts at a map of the library and pull random books off the shelf. I wonder - is there a way to collate the information out here without ha pering its flow? The proposed new domain names might help some, but still - I think an objective approach might be the best. Your thoughts?

I don't think objective is possible because of different societal outlooks across the globe. Maybe I'm wrong, but...

Still, it should be at least possible to sort into broad categories - Arts, Spiritual, etc. The problem with the chaotic format on the web is that it is often impossible to break the information into manageable streams.

Isn't yahoo trying to do that? And some of the other search engines are getting smarter at finding things relevant to the subject, I've noticed.

Paul, not to be snide but, I think everyone's 'trying' to do that. Just overwhemling amounts of information and not sufficient to create a MISC. category!

I know several people who either have, or are working towards, degrees in Library Science. I hear frequently that there aren't as many jobs out there as there once were. Why not figure out a way to use these individuals, who are trained to collate information, to organize the amorphous mass that is the Web? There may be entirely new categories of information that we need to create before we can get anywhere. What would those be? Before we move from surfing the Web -skimming the surface - to exploring we must weed and cultivate it in some way. Perhaps if the "web ring" idea is expanded - cross link all pages on a specific subject to each other.... BTW, if this is the World Wide Web, is there a World Wide Spider? Just wondering.

Yeah, his name is Bill Gates! :-)

Nope, Lycos...

Another nightowl!

"lee-sen to them! chee-ldren of the night! what MU-sic they make!" (bela lugosi)

now, if we just had some graves to dance on...

I just got a new library card, my first in 15 years. I spend so much money on books... just frittering it away in bookstores everywhere. I decided I'd try to save some $ and 'borrow' books instead. My local library signs them out for 3 weeks and doesn't charge a late fee if you miss the due date. No wonder libraries aren't making any money!

i think I spend more in late fees that in buying books. I check eight or nine out at a time (because I can!) and then forget to renew them. It's really pitiful actually because DPL lets you call and renew them through a computer (a 96 second ordeal!) and I still manage to accrue late fees. Once I became so enthralled with a book -- Paulo Coehlo's By the River Piedra I Sat Down and Wept, that I wrote in it. I underlined the passages that were speaking especially to me. Then I lent the book to Brandon (befo e we were living in sin) and he did the same. We really converged over the novel and I wanted to keep it, so I bought the library another used copy...

Congratulations on that library card, Gena! Welcome to my private collection!

opponents of the proposed Denver Stadium have made several unofficial proposals to the Broncos... we will give you the money via taxes if you give enough money to the Denver library system to keep all branches open on Sundays! I thought it was a great idea!

(i dunno... books instead of broncos? sounds like comm'nism, to me)...

actually the proposal was so both would coexist happily (ever after) the city buys the Broncos a new stadium, the Broncos buy the city one day of library access per week! And the communists never would've justified gazillion dollar stadiums/salaries for an organized sports team!

I think it's a fair trade!

(i was kidding)

(i know, just thought i'd take the opportunity to further my point!)

(you?!?)

*smirk* *smile*

Cute combo...you wear it well...

but i don't have anything on.

(gulp)

*laugh* sorry! Sometimes I forget how public this is-- didn't mean to frighten anyone!

Non-restrictive day again, eh? (why aren't you ever like that when I'm around in person?)

i was... the 2nd time (breakfast)

*lol* no, silly, I mean nothing on...

oh... well, you left too early! *smile*

(and this has NOTHING to do with libraries... or does it?)

we were, um, checking out information, and doing, um, research...

(good save)

(and hopefully an acceptable(sp?) apology to the other participants!!!)

Introducing the new Bio-Optic Organized Knowledge device, trade-named -- BOOK. BOOK is a revolutionary breakthrough in technology: no wires, no electric circuits, no batteries, nothing to be connected or switched on. It's so easy to use, even a child can operate it. Compact and portable, it can be used anywhere -- even sitting in an armchair by the fire -- yet it is powerful enough to hold as much information as a CD-ROM disc. Here's how it works: BOOK is constructed of sequentially numbered sheets of paper (recyclable), each capable of holding thousands of bits of information. The pages are locked together with a custom-fit device called a binder which keeps the sheets in their correct sequence. Opaque Paper Technology (OPT) allows manufacturers to use both sides of the sheet, doubling the information density and cutting costs. Experts are divided on the prospects for further increases in information density; for now, BOOKS with more information simply use more pages. Each sheet is scanned optically, registering information directly into your brain. A flick of the finger takes you to the next sheet. BOOK may be taken up at any time and used merely by opening it. BOOK never crashes or requires rebooting, though, like other devices, it can become damaged if coffee is spilled on it and it becomes unusable if dropped too many times on a hard surface. The "browse" feature allows you to move instantly to any sheet, and move forward or backward as you wish. Many come with an "index" feature, which pin-points the exact location of any selected information for instant retrieval. An optional "BOOKmark" accessory allows you to open BOOK to the exact place you left it in a previous session -- even if the BOOK has been closed. BOOKmarks fit universal design standards; thus, a single BOOKmark can be used in BOOKs by various manufacturers. Conversely, numerous BOOKmarkers can be used in a single BOOK if the user wants to store numerous views at once. The number is limited only by the number of pages in the BOOK. You can also make personal notes next to BOOK text entries with optional programming tools, Portable Erasable Nib Cryptic Intercommunication Language Styli (PENCILS). Portable, durable, and affordable, BOOK is being hailed as a precursor of a new entertainment wave. BOOK's appeal seems so certain that thousands of content creators have committed to the platform and investors are reportedly flocking to invest. Look for a flood of new titles soon.

who'da thunk it? *grin*

exactly!

It'll never catch on!

I have lots of them. I had four out today just to answer one question. They really do work and are easy to curl up in a corner with on a miserable afternoon when you cannot be outside. I highly recommend them. Over here, bugs like them, too. I hate bugs!!!