Thought I might continue the topic of Regencystyle in here (as it is the proper place for it -Karen ;-)) HG did look funny in 'Sense and Sensibility', and I noticed that Jeremy Northam seemed to drown in his cravat in Emma, but I don't recall that ODB had any such problems? I meen, he looked perfectly at ease in it (no matter what scene - or am I wrong?)

Jeremy Northam seemed to drown in his cravat in Emma, I dunno...he was a yummy Mr. Knightly.With that wicked little look in his eyes.

No, Diane, I agree. He's built to wear Regency clothes.

(Evelyn)I dunno...he was a yummy Mr. Knightly.With that wicked little look in his eyes. He was yummy, and that look of his could make me swoon any day, all I'm saying is that there were times (especially when he sits),when his chin seemed to be all covered up by the cravat (that is the word, right?) Something I don't think I've seen with ODB.

(Diane) all I'm saying is that there were times (especially when he sits)... I agree. I thought that when I first saw Emma as well. Though, I do think JN looks very good in regency clothing overall. No one compares to ODB, so JN is a second best...well, maybe third...I liked Mark Strong as Mr. Knightley a bit better (don't hate me). I just liked the BBC version more than the GP/JN version. HG in S&S looked very uncomfortable in his clothes...talk about a neck getting swallowed up! His shoulders looked hunched the whole time as well and when he moved, he seemed like he was walking on glass...I know his character was to be a bit 'mousy' and in the book Edward Ferrars was not a good-looking man, so maybe HG was compensating...

(Tress)I know his character was to be a bit 'mousy' and in the book Edward Ferrars was not a good-looking man, so maybe HG was compensating... -I think that had something to do with it....:-)

I liked Mark Strong as Mr. Knightley a bit better (don't hate me). I just liked the BBC version more than the GP/JN version. LOL. No, I don't hate you:-)) I just disagree.I think Colin has a longer neck and looks good in high collars...mobetta than black tee shirts, IMO.;-) But Mark Strong as "Mr. Anything"?;-((( (Liked him in "Sunshine" though)

(Evelyn) I think Colin has a longer neck and looks good in high collars...mobetta than black tee shirts, IMO.;-) He does wear the period clothing VERY well. But I think a lot of it had to do with a good taylor (regardless of the length of his neck). The costume department in P&P did an exceptional job (giving ODB those wide shoulders and slender hips...and those boots Louisa!!!). The costumers certainly knew how to outfit him to his advantage (and ours). I about died the first time I saw 'Camille' Those cravats! They looked like bibs. I just couldn't get over the clothes in that movie and the all the makeup worn by the women (did they use eyeliner in the 19th century??). I just thought the women all looked like 1980s style bar-flys with hoop skirts... Still love him in the black Ts though...(but good to know he 'cleans up' well)! ;-)

But I think a lot of it had to do with a good tailor Agree. Have you seen "Turn of the Screw?"Talk about period clothes that don't fit. The shirt is two sizes too big around the collar. Same neck too;-)

(Evelyn) Have you seen "Turn of the Screw?"Talk about period clothes that don't fit. The shirt is two sizes too big around the collar. I have only seen TOTS once...and I'll have to admit that I wasn't looking at his collar. ODBs screen time was so short, I just got lost in those fine eyes. ;-) About ODB's long neck...When Mr. Darcy is writing the letter to EB at Rosings. When he leans his head back and you get that view of his adam's apple...Great shot. I think because he is so covered up in P&P, that by the time you do get to see some skin you nearly gasp.

(Diane) but I don't recall that ODB had any such problems? I meen, he looked perfectly at ease in it (no matter what scene - or am I wrong?) IMO you're not wrong. He looked absolutely divine. I haven't seen him in a period piece where he doesn't look good. He's just got the body for anything. Much to our pleasure. (Evelyn) I didn't know he wore a wig....ug. Thought he wuz "the real thing";-) I agree. I read in article where he was told to let his hair grow and they dyed it dark, so IMO it is the real thing. (Evelyn) I dunno...he was a yummy Mr. Knightly.With that wicked little look in his eyes. He was a deliciously yummy Mr. Knightly. I agree. Just perfect. (Tress) I have only seen TOTS once...and I'll have to admit that I wasn't looking at his collar. ODBs screen time was so short, I just got lost in those fine eyes. ;-) I watched it a couple of times and the first six minutes many times. Never noticed the clothes just noticed the eyes and the flirting. Loved it.

It's his real hair with dark brown dye applied. ;) I think he made "Fever Pitch" fairly soon after P&P, and the hair is VERY similar. I just finally finished reading "The Bar Sinister", and it was much better than what I expected! Gosh, he's a sexy beast, is he not? (laughing) His neck is not only long, but is large. I bet he wears a 17 or 17 1/2 dress shirt. That's very strange considering he's so lean.

(Jeanie) I just finally finished reading "The Bar Sinister", and it was much better than what I expected! Gosh, he's a sexy beast, is he not? (laughing) That book should come in a plain brown wrapper...I haven't 'offically' started it yet (it's in a pile by my nightstand), but a took a peek (okay, I read all the dirty parts)...my goodness...Mr. Darcy!!! I had no idea that he and Elizabeth could be so frisky. (Jeanie) His neck is not only long, but is large. I was going to comment here, but decided that I really shouldn't go there.... ;-)

(Jeanie) His neck is not only long, but is large. (Tress) I was going to comment here, but decided that I really shouldn't go there.... ;-) Don't worry. I don't believe there have been any scientific studies with your intended correlation. Is always size of foot.

(Karen) I don't believe there have been any scientific studies with your intended correlation. Is always size of foot. I always thought it was your foot fit between the bend in your elbow and base of the hand (it does, I have tried this) and 'the other' was the distance from thumb to index finger when pointing...(and to think, I said I wasn't going to go there). ;-) The neck correlation would have been more hypothesis than scientific fact. A point at which to start an investigation.

(Karen) Don't worry. I don't believe there have been any scientific studies with your intended correlation. Is always size of foot. And I know there have been plenty of comments on foot size. Was it here or elsewhere that I once read the relevant comment from a doctor, "Tall people have larger appendages."

(Rika)"Tall people have larger appendages." I bet that relevant comment was from here, Although I cannot say I have personally been privy to all of Mr. Darcy's appendages, I would say the comment is correct-based on the appendages I have been able to see.

Question: I am confused with the topics and need clarification. I find that the subjects here and at the new 'Firthology" are somewhat interchangable! Can anyone set me straight! BTW....indeed it is well known fact that height, feet, hands and , uhhum, well you know whats all are related in terms of size!

(Lisa) I am confused with the topics and need clarification. I find that the subjects here and at the new 'Firthology" are somewhat interchangable! Can anyone set me straight! It all started as a very highbrow discussion on the fine-ness of ODB's neck. Unfortunately, I took the path of least resistance (with some help from Jeanie and Karen). I apologize profusely and will try to contain myself in the future (let's see how long that will last...).

(Lisa) BTW....indeed it is well known fact that height, feet, hands and , uhhum, well you know whats all are related in terms of size! Risking dating myself here and admitting things I shouldn't but high-profile Madam Xaviera Hollander wrote a book (The Happy Hooker) I "happened" to see as a teen and she (and one would presume she would know) insisted the hands were the best "indicator." That single comment has contributed to more than its share of conference room daydreams. Since we are in Darcy Drool I will attempt to bring the topic back home by saying that in P&P during many of the best "hand times" he is unfortunately wearing gloves, but I find there is an especially nice hand shot during BJD, the birthday toast.

(Barb)but I find there is an especially nice hand shot during BJD, the birthday toast. LOL... yup, big hand and very long fingers wrapped around his wine glass. Oh, and as most of you probably know , despite what some may think, height generally doesn't carry an absolute guarantee of "size". There's plenty of short cowboys out there that, well, carry quite the astounding lasso. However, I've never seen it fail that if the man has large hands and long fingers, well.. you know. (insert the winkster here)

(Lisa) I am confused with the topics and need clarification. I find that the subjects here and at the new 'Firthology" are somewhat interchangable! Can anyone set me straight! Here's my understanding of it: 112 is for P&P and CF drool related thereto, obviously. 149 performs the same function for BJD. 165 is for current CF NEWS (movies in production, awaiting production, possible parts, and other miscellaneous CF news but not silly drool). 166 is for major-league drooling and silly stuff about CF in general and all roles (except for P&P and BJD drool, which have their own topics -- except when citing examples for general discussions of all roles). Now, are you as confused as I am?

LOL... hmmm, I just realized that I should've posted my passion for Darcy Sim here, instead of Firthology.. Oh well, it's gonna take me awhile to get it all straightened out, but anyways.. (sigh) I've decided, since there hasn't been an "Elizabeth Sim" created yet that I'm gonna move in next door so he can come see me and we can sit in the hot tub (hmmm.. Regency times I guess it would have to be a hot spring) and check the bounce on the "love bed"! I just hope Darcy's character is one that likes to hot tub nakey.. I doubt it, though, since he's so serious by nature. ROFL.. .you may never see me again!

Mostly this Sim stuff is a mystery to me and I have a feeling if I were smart, I would leave it there, but I must say I am intrigued.

(Barb S) Mostly this Sim stuff is a mystery to me and I have a feeling if I were smart, I would leave it there, but I must say I am intrigued. It's pretty much of a mystery to me, too. I'm on a Mac, and maybe that's why (I don't have Sims). However, curiosity just sent me visiting the links to the Sims downloads on 166, and I still don't get it, really. Pemberley looks NOTHING like Pemberley. It's the wrong color! Where's the lake? Rosings isn't nearly tacky enough. Who the heck is Lady Priscilla (or whatever)? And Darcy looks more like that odd chap in P&P1 (the one with Elizabeth Garvey) instead of ODB. Methinks it needs lots of work.

(whacking Kathy on the backside with my special edition velvet Elvis poster) Oh, you mac snobs.... (taking on superior high pitched voice).. "the graphics are simply ghastly.. blah, blah, blah!" (laughing) Trust me, the sim people are improving more and more all the time! They are terribly addictive. I didn't particularly like the pemberley download, either, so I'm modifying mine. =P There's just too many pinkish tones. Ick! Plus, what's that roof doing there? I'm gonna go back to my P&P dvd today and see if I can figure out a way to make "Pemberley" more.. well.. pemberleyish. As far as Darcy, well, I haven't really been able to see him up close. There are some celebrity sims that one can download that are very realistic. Before my computer crashed I had Faith Hill as well as Angelina Jolie Sims, and they were gorgeous!

(Jeanie) Oh, you mac snobs .... (taking on superior high pitched voice).. "the graphics are simply ghastly.. blah, blah, blah!" (laughing) Trust me, the sim people are improving more and more all the time! They are terribly addictive. Calm down and don't harm velvet Elvis! I meant that Sim doesn't come on Mac as a standard feature (at least, not on any of mine) and so I'm not really indoctrinated in all this. Is this like Sim City (that my son used to play on Nintendo)? I just looked at the links posted and could see some graphics, but don't know if that's all you get or not. There were three head shots of Darcy. Did not see Lizzy at all. Since I don't have Sim, there's no reason to download. I hope you CAN make Pemberley look more like itself! And by the way, what does one do with Faith Hill and Angelina Jolie Sims? My curiosity is definitely piqued! Will they be visiting Pemberley?

(Jeanie) Oh, you mac snobs .... (taking on superior high pitched voice).. "the graphics are simply ghastly.. blah, blah, blah!" (laughing) Trust me, the sim people are improving more and more all the time! They are terribly addictive. I have a mac (and the Sims)....wasn't my pick, the DH HAD to have it (he does a lot of photo work)...I could care less about such things as I am lucky to find the on/off button. I didn't load up my Sims last night though...am going to try this weekend. Really want to put Pemberley in my neighborhood, but am stress-out about teaching everyone to cook (I hear you can burn your house down fairly quickly if your people aren't adept at this skill)...and do Georgiana and Darcy have to cook as well??? and the five maids??? Gahhhh!!! Also have heard that if they don't know where 'the facilities' are located (or you ignore them) that there can be 'little accidents' in the corners...is this true?? I don't think my heart can take seeing Mr. Darcy wizzin' in a corner.... (though for some reason, I can imagine Angelina Jolie doing this with no problem)...;-)

I'm finding this topic interesting, the idea of "sim" fic is intriguing and I might want to learn more (and it seems there is ample interest in the topic) but should we take this to Odds and Ends? I do want you to keep talking though, I hope to either absorb enough to run away shrieking or venture into it myself.

There are many "Tech" conferences here at Spring. O&E wouldn't be the place for it.

Well, since I was dealing with the "Pemberley Sims", specifically Darcy, I thought this would be the place to talk about it. Maybe not, though... It's gonna take me forever to figure out how to get the little folks back on my computer, anyways, so I won't post about it anymore. =) The new posting system is, I think, a good idea, but I'm still confused by it all, but what's new? LOL! No need to show me the rules again, it won't help! LOL! I'm sorry for taking up space with my rogue posting. ;) I'll try to be more sensible about such things in the future. Oh, and I want Kathy & Tress to know that I wasn't seriously slighting mac users. My brother in law, a graphic artist, goes on and on about his machine, so I couldn't help but tease. Hope everyone has a lovely weekend! =D

Jeanie, it is tricky to try to figure out where to talk about a Sim version of Mr. Darcy! But really I think the only thing that has changed in the posting system is that the CF mainline topic has been split into News and Firthology. Karen has always wanted us to use the Darcy Drool and BJD topics for P&P and BJD specific stuff. But we got lazy and didn't bother to do it, and she tolerated it for quite a while before she reminded us.

(Rika) a Sim version of Mr. Darcy! *scratching head* Youse are too smart for me....

(Evelyn) Youse are too smart for me.... Too smart for me also. I'm lost. Nothing new.

On Yahoo News: Movies - Variety Bollywood Director Jolly for Jane Tue Oct 29, 4:18 AM ET By Adam Dawtrey LONDON (Variety) - Director Gurinder Chadha will follow up "Bend It Like Beckham" with a modern-day Bollywood musical version of Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice." The project is in early pre-production and will start shooting next March. Mr. Darcy, the romantic lead, will be played by an American actor backed up by an all-star Bollywood cast to be announced shortly. Chadha and her co-writer, Paul Mayeda Berges, are in India working on the music and lyrics. The writing and recording of the songs must be completed before the start of principal photography in India, the U.K. and the U.S.

LOL! I have *got* to see that!

Thanks for report Tress. An American playing Darcy. I couldn't begin to guess who they may cast. I agree Dorine, LOL. Should prove interesting.

(FanPam)An American playing Darcy George Cloney, perhaps? Then Bridget would actually be interviewing Mr. Darcy in TEoR.

(Yahoo News) Mr. Darcy, the romantic lead, will be played by an American actor backed up by an all-star Bollywood cast to be announced shortly. Let me get this straight. An American Darcy, and would that mean everybody else is Indian? My imagination is in overdrive now. I keep envisioning all the women in saris (Caroline's orange, of course) and everybody speaking in strange, clipped accents...

(KathyF) I keep envisioning all the women in saris (Caroline's orange, of course) and everybody speaking in strange, clipped accents... LOL...not just speaking! Remember, this is a musical. I hope they have a 'proposal song'...would love to hear the dialogue from that scene sung..."in vain I have struggled, it will not do..."

LOL, Tress! It actually went through my head as a song when I read this.

You know, this could work! I'm visualizing the stage version of Beauty and the Beast meets Pride & Prejudice. Just for fun, let's let Elizabeth be Beauty instead of the other way around :-D Or even better -- the Gaston song for Darcy! "Oh what a guy -- Fitzwilliam" -- ok, it might need work but there ARE parallels.

How funny!!! I forgot it was going to be a musical as well as Indian. I agree. This could work as Beauty and the Beast. All kidding aside they could never come up with as good a sound track as P&P2. The themes were perfect for the characters.

Evelyn asked for a Lambton Inn DVD capture. It turns out that the table partly obscures the view of Darcy's hands on Lizzy's arm - I never really noticed that while watching. This particular shot is from the midst of the time when Darcy is regaining his composure and his sense of propriety. He just finished sitting back in his chair so he's no longer leaning in so close to Lizzy, and he has just realized where his hands are - in a few more seconds he's going to remove them from her arm. I also think there's some leftist evidence on display as he is sitting down earlier in this scene, but that's a subject for another time.

I've never seen it fail that if the man has large hands and long fingers, well.. you know. Okay Jeanie this was going back a few posts, but I'm allowed, I've been busy! I've got a question and I'm sure it *must* be able to fit into this topic somehow. Um, err, well, just HOW is it that you have never seen it fail??? What are you up to??? (insert curious winkie) Rika...what's on the table above???..looks like brains, or tripe next to "that" letter! (BTW---That is the perfect arguement for bringing mutton chops back into fashion...) Finally, this is what I think we all should do. Start posting whatever, wherever you want. Don't pay any attention to what topic you're in. Then sit back and watch Karen jump from room to room and try and sort everyone out. It'll be a hoot. Bring some wine and cheese. We can have a little "do".

(Lisa) Bring some wine and cheese. We can have a little "do". Woohoo! I think someone is feeling her oats, perhaps she's been working a little too hard and is giddy now that one story is out of the way? ;-) And yeah, Jeanie, how about what she asked?!

(Lisa) Rika...what's on the table above???..looks like brains, or tripe next to "that" letter! I'm 90% sure that's a bonnet of Lizzy's. (BTW---That is the perfect arguement for bringing mutton chops back into fashion...) Though they wouldn't look that good on just anyone. Finally, this is what I think we all should do. Start posting whatever, wherever you want. Don't pay any attention to what topic you're in. Then sit back and watch Karen jump from room to room and try and sort everyone out. It'll be a hoot. Bring some wine and cheese. We can have a little "do". You're so EVIL! Here I am trying to be a good girl and follow The Rules, and there are anarchists like you about inciting us to be naughty (but what fun it would be......)

(DVDiva) I'm 90% sure that's a bonnet of Lizzy's. I'm 100% sure...I'd put money on it! Thank you again for that pic Rika...It looks as if she is looking at his face (can't quite tell) and all he can do is look at her arm as he touches her...you're right, "he has just realized where his hands are", it's as if he just can't help himself..."I gotta touch her, I just gotta". Then he realizes he has an audience (Elizabeth) and withdraws. Poor boy, so in love and Lydia just had to go and spoil it all for him! (Rika) Here I am trying to be a good girl and follow The Rules... I was told not to read "The Rules". According to my Bibliotherapy book, it's a "book to be thrown with great force"! ;-) (Lisa) (BTW---That is the perfect arguement for bringing mutton chops back into fashion...) I have been saying this to my DH for a long time! He says he refuses to indulge in my Darcy fantasies! Silly boy!! (FanPam) All kidding aside they could never come up with as good a sound track as P&P2. The themes were perfect for the characters. But the lyrics! Imagine! I just hope we will be able to see it here...the entertainment value of something like this could be very high! ;-) Though I agree, I love the P&P2 (can I ask why everyone puts the 2 at the end? I'm being a bit thick this morning) soundtrack. Great music!!

...randy grasshopper. THAT'S IT! My search is over! That is EXACTLY what he reminds me of! Thanks Murph, I can rest now....

(Lisa) Finally, this is what I think we all should do. Start posting whatever, wherever you want. Don't pay any attention to what topic you're in. Then sit back and watch Karen jump from room to room and try and sort everyone out. Keep repeating to self, "do NOT listen to Lisa, do NOT listen to Lisa..." (Tress) It looks as if she is looking at his face (can't quite tell) and all he can do is look at her arm as he touches her...you're right, "he has just realized where his hands are", it's as if he just can't help himself..."I gotta touch her, I just gotta". Then he realizes he has an audience (Elizabeth) and withdraws. Poor boy, so in love and Lydia just had to go and spoil it all for him! Absolutely! I always feel like killing Lydia over this -- lucky for her Lizzie was her sister instead of me! Poor Darcy wants so desperately to go for it and comfort her, but propriety demands he keep his distance. *sigh* Thanks, Rika! Another great one!!

Thanks Rika, great pic. Murph, what a talent. This is great stuff. Please let us know where more are. So clever. Thank you. I agree, its the hat on the table.

(FanPam) Murph, what a talent. This is great stuff. Please let us know where more are. So clever. Thank you. I second that....very funny stuff. And now about the Lambton Inn scene...I know this has probably been talked about before, but I am of the opinion that he went there that day to renew his proposal. I think he was planning a heart to heart with Lizzie as he walked in (there was a real purpose to his stride as he entered that room, and he had seemed edgy when getting dressed that morning)...if only we could have an 'alternate history' of that moment (had Lizzie not received Jane's letters, or better yet, if Lydia had been better behaved, what would have happened in that moment??). We'll never know and it makes me sad...Wish we could see the famous script (what kind of direction did Andrew Davies give CF and JE in that particular scene??).

Murph, this is hilarious stuff! (Murph, channeling David Bamber) Even Firth doesn�t have his own theme. Hey, you tell Davie-boy that there kind of IS a Darcy theme. Or maybe it's more of a Darcy-Lizzy love theme. I'm thinking of the music that was used for a lot of the scenes on the grounds of Pemberley. It's also used when he watches her play with the dog, when he encounters her walking around Rosings, and after she accepts the second proposal.

(Rika)It turns out that the table partly obscures the view of Darcy's hands on Lizzy's arm -I never really noticed that while watching Around the 100th time.....thanks Rika...it's my favorite scene. (lisa) Finally, this is what I think we all should do. Start posting whatever, wherever you want. Don't pay any attention to what topic you're in. Then sit back and watch Karen jump from room to room and try and sort everyone out.. Rika) You're so EVIL! Here I am trying to be a good girl and follow The Rules, and there are anarchists like you about inciting us to be naughty (but what fun it would be......) Warning to Anarchists: ROTF...you'll suddenly find your posts MIA.

(Murph)Oh my God, look at the top of his head! Should I tell him? No time... He is going to hate this scene the rest of his life!...Even Firth doesn�t have his own theme. LOL. This is excellent stuff, Murph. Hope you have more, Thank you Rika for the picture. Do you get tired of me saying that? (Lisa)looks like brains, or tripe Wrong story, that's ACWE type of thing.

(Tress) And now about the Lambton Inn scene... I agree. He definitely went there for a purpose. If not to renew his proposal at least to definitely propose some sort of understanding, leading to a proposal. But most definitely to have a heart to heart. Obviously it was arranged that they would see each other at Pemberly as she asks him to apologize to Georgiana for their leaving and not being able to see her that day. So inroads had definitely been made, and he was feeling a bit more confident about her. But you know, if it wasn't for Lydia he wouldn't have admitted that he had a problem with his Pride and JA definitely had to make him aware of it. So the obstacle was necessary, but it also proved to Lizzy how much he cared for her to go out of his way like that, plus major points scored with Gardners. I just wish the movie showed the family knowing about what he had done as she tells her father it was Darcy who took care of everything in the book. I would have liked to see him receive thanks from the family on screen as well as some of the Longborn scenes after the engagement. Would have tied it up neatly. (Murph) Oh my God, look at the top of his head! Should I tell him? No time... He is going to hate this scene the rest of his life! This is priceless!!! Murph you have a true comic talent. I am really enjoying this. Good stuff. (Rika) Hey, you tell Davie-boy that there kind of IS a Darcy theme. Yes, there definitely is. It's played over and over again when a scene involves him. Especially noticeable when he rides into Pemberley. Lizzy has her own, especially noticable in the very beginning when she's watching Darcy & Bingley ride, and Bingley has his theme, listen when he's going to Longborn to propose to Jane. Four distinct themes including Collins', perhaps others as well but those come to mind immediately.

(Tress) I know this has probably been talked about before, but I am of the opinion that he went there that day to renew his proposal. Andrew Davies confirmed that was his intent with the scene when he spoke at the U of Wisc last year.

Thanks for answer to Lambton visit question, Karen.

Remember, that is only Andrew Davies' interpretation. We don't know if JA agreed with it.

(FanPam) I just wish the movie showed the family knowing about what he had done as she tells her father it was Darcy who took care of everything in the book. I would have liked to see him receive thanks from the family on screen as well as some of the Longborn scenes after the engagement. Would have tied it up neatly. I have often thought the same thing. I almost felt uncomfortable for Darcy in the movie (as if the elder Bennet's did not approve of the match). All that had to be done would have been to add a line (or two) to the scene were Lizzie tells her father that D has 'no improper pride'. I suppose Andrew Davies had his reasons for leaving it out, but it would have made me feel better (and that's the whole point, right?)...there was also a part in the book with a dinner party at Longbourn that I would have liked to have seen...(were Darcy is seated next to Mrs. Bennet). (Karen) Andrew Davies confirmed that was his intent with the scene when he spoke at the U of Wisc last year. Good to know! I can now watch it w/o all those questions floating around in my head. Although, it's unfortunate that Ms. Austen could not be consulted to see what her opinion would be on the whole matter. I do think it is the best adaptation of a JA novel I have seen (I know that many think Persuasion was done quite well, but I'm a superficial sort of girl, and I liked the costumes and hair better in P&P2 (and no one has told me why we add the 2 at the end yet))....okay, okay...I'm also partial to ODB...

We add the 2 because there was a 0 and a 1 preceding this version. The numbering convention either started on the Austen-L list or ROP. The zero version is the Greer Garson-Laurence Olivier one. P&P1 was also from the BBC and starred Elizabeth Garvie and David Rintoul. I don't have the date handy.

(Tress) I know that many think Persuasion was done quite well I've always heard this, and it totally escapes me. IMO almost every part was horribly miscast, although Amanda Root did an admirable job and Corin Redgrave was marvelous. On the whole, I was terribly disappointed, and can't understand why it was so well received. Of the Austen adaptations, P&P2 seems vastly superior, to my way of thinking. Elizabeth Garvie is good in P&P1, and there are aspects of that production which were well executed. David Rintoul, though...ugh! :-(

(Karen)Remember, that is only Andrew Davies' interpretation. We don't know if JA agreed with it. Exactly, artistic license there, that's for sure. That particular scene is a much-discussed part of the story and, take this as you wish, from what I've read concensus is that JA did not intend for the scene to be interpreted as Darcy's second proposal attempt.

David Rintoul, though...ugh! :-( He was such a stiff! It's surprising he could sit down at all. ;-) (Pam), at least to definitely propose some sort of understanding, leading to a proposal. But most definitely to have a heart to heart. This is more believable, IMO. (Rika)It turns out that the table partly obscures the view of Darcy's hands on Lizzy's arm -I never really noticed that while watching I loved that! And, I did catch it on my first viewing. :-)

(Moon) I loved that! And, I did catch it on my first viewing. :-) I need to clarify what I meant. I noticed his hands on her arm right from the start. I love that part too - he's so desperate to comfort her, and when he's leaning towards her you can tell he's having to use every ounce of self-control to stop himself from taking her in her arms. What I meant to say was that I didn't notice until I went to do the captures that the table partially obscures his hands - I would have bet that they were much more visible at that point. I found it interesting that my imagination filled in the missing part of the image without my ever realizing it.

(Kathy)Elizabeth Garvie is good in P&P1, and there are aspects of that production which were well executed. David Rintoul, though...ugh! :-( Ah..but just as you preferred Garvie (who IMO was better as Camilla Parker Bowles in "Diana" )there are people who liked the David Rintoul interpretation of Darcy more than Andrew Davis. They feel it was more in keeping with Austen's intent. Of course we all go for the Colin rendition of sexy Darcy. Just depends if one is an Austen purist.

(Rika) he's so desperate to comfort her, and when he's leaning towards her you can tell he's having to use every ounce of self-control to stop himself from taking her in her arms. I like the way he's almost gnawing on his fist, due to his frustration at having to keep his distance. (Evelyn) but just as you preferred Garvie Oh, heavens no! I didn't mean I preferred Garvie to JE. I prefer JE, but thought that EG was one of the best things about P&P1.

(Karen) We add the 2 because there was a 0 and a 1 preceding this version. Thank you...it now makes perfect sense. (KathyF) David Rintoul, though...ugh! :-( (Moon) He was such a stiff! It's surprising he could sit down at all. ;-) I have yet to see P&P1 (I have the hang of this title thing, I think), but I really want to...glad to hear that DR did not outshine ODB (but that would be impossible I think). (KathyF re: Persuasion) I've always heard this, and it totally escapes me. IMO almost every part was horribly miscast, although Amanda Root did an admirable job and Corin Redgrave was marvelous. On the whole, I was terribly disappointed, and can't understand why it was so well received. I saw Persuasion after P&P2, and I was surprised that many thought it was the best adaptation. Amanda Root did well (but her hair seemed too short in front to me (after seeing Susannah Harkers hair)), I did also like Corin Redgrave and Sophie Thompson (I always like her). (FanPam) But you know, if it wasn't for Lydia he wouldn't have admitted that he had a problem with his Pride and JA definitely had to make him aware of it. So the obstacle was necessary, but it also proved to Lizzy how much he cared for her to go out of his way like that, plus major points scored with Gardners. Which is why I don't write well! I wanted Darcy to talk to Lizzie sooooo bad at the Lambton Inn scene. JA knew what she was doing (it's amazing to me that almost 200 years later, we can still find this one story so engaging). Darcy did still need that extra kick in the behind at that point (and Wickham and Lydia were a perfect 'test' for him).

KathyF re: Persuasion) I've always heard this, and it totally escapes me. IMO almost every part was horribly miscast, although Amanda Root did an admirable job and Corin Redgrave was marvelous. On the whole, I was terribly disappointed, and can't understand why it was so well received. How about Ciaran Hinds as Capt. Wentworth.*sigh* Not a glitzy production, but beautifully executed, IMO.Amanda Root is no beauty, but brought powerful inner emotions to the surface with her subtle facial expressions.Who can forget the scene at the music concert in the Assembly Room at Bath.Their eye encounters...powerful stuff.

Chiming in on Persuasion, I really liked the Amanda Root-Ciaran Hinds production over the BBC one.

I think that's the version I recently taped from the ABC.......

(Evelyn) Just depends if one is an Austen purist. I know they say that, but I've never understood why it's "purist" to portray Darcy as a cold fish with a great big ol' stick up his butt. We're talking here about a man who overcame his substantial pride and changed himself for the sake of a woman. And it wasn't a woman who brought a huge dowry or connections to the nobility that would have enhanced his social position. If anything, his position might suffer due to the marriage. So if he wasn't motivated by money or social advancement, what's left? The only possible explanation is that he was being ruled not by his head, but by his heart (perhaps with encouragement from some other organ further south). And that leaves you with a Darcy who, though he attempts not to show it in public, is in the grip of powerful and bewildering emotions that he can't entirely control. In other words, Firth's Darcy. I know the purists object to some of Davies' added scenes (particularly the plunge in the lake), but they don't have anything to do with the basic characterization of Darcy, and that's the part that bothers me about P&P1. Rintoul's Darcy doesn't have deep enough feelings to make major sacrifices in the name of love.

(Tress) I do think it is the best adaptation of a JA novel I have seen (I know that many think Persuasion was done quite well, but I'm a superficial sort of girl, and I liked the costumes and hair better in P&P2 (and no one has told me why we add the 2 at the end yet))....okay, okay...I'm also partial to ODB I agree with you. I think it is the least disjointed, shall we say, of the adaptations. It seems to flow alot better than some, and I had less unanswered questions about it than any of the others. Saw Persuasion for the first time the other night. Watched it three times consequtively to get accents, but still found it disjointed, so now will return to book to piece it together. I know this is a silly question but does anyone else think Amanda Root and Sophie Thompson resemble each other? I wonder if they are related somehow. I thought there was a strong resemblence. Read a recent Q & A interview of AD. He said his least favorite scene was the second proposal. He said it was poorly directed and poorly acted as there was no spark or emotions between Lizzy and Darcy. Apparently not how he had envisioned it when he wrote it. He also said that CF helped JE alot with her Lizzy interpretation. I found this interesting. (Kathy) (Rika) he's so desperate to comfort her, and when he's leaning towards her you can tell he's having to use every ounce of self-control to stop himself from taking her in her arms. I like the way he's almost gnawing on his fist, due to his frustration at having to keep his distance. I agree, but I also think he's beginning to feel guilty about not publicly exposing Wickham. (Tress) JA knew what she was doing (it's amazing to me that almost 200 years later, we can still find this one story so engaging). That's why stories like P&P are classics IMO. They are so well written and have so many human failings and successes in them that they will endure through generations and centuries because people can identify with them. Alcott, Austen, Dickens, Shakespeare, Homer, Wilde, just to name a very few extremely talented and gifted writers. No matter how they are updated and modernized the basic essence of what they have written is translated in its truest form for all to enjoy. Also everyone loves a good love story with a happy ending, and especially a beautifully done top-drawer interpretation of that love story with CF as the hero and heartthrob. It doesn't get better than that. (Evelyn) How about Ciaran Hinds as Capt. Wentworth.*sigh* *sigh*sigh*sigh*oooooooooo

(Evelyn) How about Ciaran Hinds as Capt. Wentworth.*sigh* Not a glitzy production, but beautifully executed, IMO.Amanda Root is no beauty, but brought powerful inner emotions to the surface with her subtle facial expressions. Well (hope I don't make any enemies here) as I said I thought it miscast pretty much all around. AR was good, but never achieved the glow that Anne was supposed to have attained when Capt. Wentworth returned. IMO Ciaran Hinds has too many teeth to be really attractive (ducking tomatoes), but it's all a matter of taste, obviously. Just didn't think he would have inspired such admiration in so many women. I reread the book immediately prior to seeing it, so everything was fresh in my mind, and nothing lived up to my expectations. (Rika) Rintoul's Darcy doesn't have deep enough feelings to make major sacrifices in the name of love. He doesn't look as if he has any feelings at all. He's as rigid as a Ken doll, with about as much sex-appeal, IMO. I can't imagine a woman as intelligent as Lizzie ever forming an attachment to DR's Darcy! So if he wasn't motivated by money or social advancement, what's left? The only possible explanation is that he was being ruled not by his head, but by his heart (perhaps with encouragement from some other organ further south). And that leaves you with a Darcy who, though he attempts not to show it in public, is in the grip of powerful and bewildering emotions that he can't entirely control And that, IMO, is what is so appealing about Darcy, and the reason I keep reading P&P over and over.

(Pam) I agree, but I also think he's beginning to feel guilty about not publicly exposing Wickham. I just checked, and she doesn't tell him about Wickham until after the hand thing. But I must admit that he might not be so much gnawing his fist as perhaps trying to surreptitiously wipe his nose. ;-) Still, I prefer the gnawing-from-frustration angle. (Evelyn) How about Ciaran Hinds as Capt. Wentworth.*sigh* (Pam) *sigh*sigh*sigh*oooooooooo Et tu, Pam?

(KathyF) AR was good, but never achieved the glow that Anne was supposed to have attained when Capt. Wentworth returned. OMG! I thought she positively blossomed, a huge change in appearance and attitude. (BTW, there's no need to apologize for one's opinions here) When I compare the two adaptations, the AR-CH version wins hands down, even though I don't find CH the least bit attractive.

(Pam)He[AD] also said that CF helped JE alot with her Lizzy interpretation. I found this interesting. That's why she thanked him [Colin]when she received the BAFTA award for Best Actress in 1996. (Kathy)achieved the glow that Anne was supposed to have attained when Capt. Wentworth returned. IMO Ciaran Hinds has too many teeth to be really attractive (ducking tomatoes), LOL. Never tomahtoes, or finger pointing on this board, Kathy.As our former host, Nan, used to say: "If we all thought alike there would be nothing to discuss" However,the fact that neither CH or AR are handsome stars like the leads in P&P, is what I like about Persuasion. They were ordinary people in love. BTW I've seen Ciaran Hinds on stage and he has a commanding presence.

(Kathy) I can't imagine a woman as intelligent as Lizzie ever forming an attachment to DR's Darcy! Another good point. He was tall and wealthy, and that's about it.

(Pam re: AD) He said his least favorite scene was the second proposal. He said it was poorly directed and poorly acted as there was no spark or emotions between Lizzy and Darcy. Apparently not how he had envisioned it when he wrote it. I thought that from the time of Lady Catherine's visit to Longbourn to the actual marriage was a bit rushed in P&P2 (my only real complaint about the entire production). In the book, there is a lot more dialogue during the second proposal, there is a second walk (a time when we could have seen some pre-marital affection)...and then there is the conversation were Lizzie tries to get Darcy to talk about when he fell in love with her...(I love that in the book, even if it is a bit cheesy, because it gives us another chance to see Lizzie being witty...and her teasing Darcy about his feelings for her). In P&P2 it was almost as if once they got to the second proposal, they didn't want us to wait much longer for that final kiss, so things had to be moved along quickly...(don't they know we would have sat through another 5 hours for that kiss?). Funny AD said he thought it was poorly acted...I just wanted CF's Darcy to finally touch her as they walked (he didn't even offer his arm to her)! (Pam) He[AD] also said that CF helped JE alot with her Lizzy interpretation. I found this interesting. (Evelyn) That's why she thanked him [Colin]when she received the BAFTA award for Best Actress in 1996. Smart on ODB's part! He molded the perfect Lizzie, so that he could have his Darcy work to perfection. I mean, what better way for characters to have chemistry, if you can get your acting partner to act exactly like you want them to, so your responses to each other will be dead on...

(Tress) In the book, there is a lot more dialogue during the second proposal, there is a second walk (a time when we could have seen some pre-marital affection)...aIn P&P2 it was almost as if once they got to the second proposal, they didn't want us to wait much longer for that final kiss, so things had to be moved along quickly...(I just wanted CF's Darcy to finally touch her as they walked (he didn't even offer his arm to her) This is the only part I felt was rather poorly done. In the book their first walk (the second proposal) was so lengthy as to cause comment, making Lizzie invent the excuse of having lost her way. Surely something interesting ;-) must have occurred at this time. The walk to Oakham Mount must have been quite a hike, too, since Bingley suggested it would be too much for Kitty. I've always wished AD had used those scenes to "fill in" what JA left to our imaginations. I also wonder, while we're on the subject of the second proposal, why Lizzy and Darcy stopped right near that worker with the cart. In other words, why was the worker with the cart in the scene at all? Wouldn't L&D have wanted privacy for this most important conversation? It bothers me every time I see it.

(Tress)Funny AD said he thought it was poorly acted...I just wanted CF's Darcy to finally touch her as they walked (he didn't even offer his arm to her)! I'm surprised AD would say this, too. Wasn't he giving all the stage direction? IMO, they did rush the ending. And, yes I would have gladly sat through another episode, or an extra hour on the last episode, at least.

(Tress) I thought that from the time of Lady Catherine's visit to Longbourn to the actual marriage was a bit rushed in P&P2 (my only real complaint about the entire production). I agree. Rushed much too much. There was so much personal interaction at the end of the book that would have been so very very good in the movie, and IMO it was needed. I would have loved to see some affection between them. Thanks Evelyn for the information about JE. I didn't know that she thanked him when she received her award. Good to know his efforts were appreciated. And I agree, Tress, very smart move on his part to help "create" a workable, responsive, Lizzy to his Darcy. (Linda) I'm surprised AD would say this, too. Wasn't he giving all the stage direction? I don't know if he was giving stage direction. I was surprised too but he was quoted as saying that it was his least favorite scene and for the reasons given. I went back to read the Q&A and its per batum. Maybe was there an editing issue. I just know I agree that atleast in that scene there wasn't very much "spark" between them as AD said. IMO much more "spark" when they meet at Pemberley by surprise. (Kathy) CH, Captain Wentworth can take me to the West Indies any time he wants. Am definitely attracted. (Kathy) I also wonder, while we're on the subject of the second proposal, why Lizzy and Darcy stopped right near that worker with the cart. In other words, why was the worker with the cart in the scene at all? Wouldn't L&D have wanted privacy for this most important conversation? It bothers me every time I see it. I have two thoughts on this (1) they were so into each other that they didn't notice the worker, or they didn't think their voices would carry to him. They didn't appear to pay the slightest bit of attention to him or (2) maybe sound equipment was in the wagon.

Sorry Karen, there was some sort of glich in this post.

closing tags

(Tress) I thought that from the time of Lady Catherine's visit to Longbourn to the actual marriage was a bit rushed in P&P2 (my only real complaint about the entire production). (FanPam) I agree. Rushed much too much. //... I would have loved to see some affection between them. I was just listening to the Davies talk online, and a part of it addressed this issue and one other we had discussed. I tried to make a decent transcript of it, but -- he talks in so many sentence fragments, it is difficult to make sense of some of it on paper, so I had to edit the repetitive parts. Anyway, he had just finished playing the Music Room scene for the audience, and right after that, he said ... "In fact, I don't know whether you'd agree...but I've known a lot of people who know the adaptation very well and have watched it quite a lot, ... I don't think we got the final bit done very well. "There's a final scene between Darcy and Elizabeth which I don't propose to play because it would just make us all miserable, which didn't work ... Where there's... where they're going for a long, long walk through the fields -- and you'd just wish they'd stand still and look in each other's eyes again. "He's doing that walking with a stick which actually neither he nor the Wickham actor quite sort of managed ... to be frank they both lean on their sticks as if they'd got a bad leg which isn't quite the point [laughter] -- My *only* criticism of Colin Firth .. my only, *only* one... [laughter]-- and anyway, ... And it's um, also the writing wasn't all that good in that last bit. But I'll stand by that [i.e.: the Music Room scene which he had just played..], I mean it's just so great, that scene, and you can tell afterwards -- and the next morning is when he rides over , ... and I am sure -- [bit about the names of the villages tangled up]-- I mean it never says in the boook why he rode over, but I'm sure he rode over to propose again on the strength of those looks -- that *I wrote* into the Music Room. [generous laughter.] So he does admit the writing had flaws -- and that he had only one criticism of CF. ;-) And that he was sure Darcy intended to propose in the Inn scene.

(Davies talk) "There's a final scene between Darcy and Elizabeth which I don't propose to play because it would just make us all miserable, which didn't work ... Where there's... where they're going for a long, long walk through the fields -- and you'd just wish they'd stand still and look in each other's eyes again. KJArt, thanks so much for taking the trouble to transcribe some of his talk for us! I agree with Davies on this part...I did wish they would have stopped and actually looked at each other (and Darcy needed to take her hand, or something!)...they both seemed not to want to make eye contact (maybe they were both aware of his pants in that scene...I don't know if I could look at his face either!). But as AD said, the writing could have been better in that one particular scene. The book had more dialogue...and there were some great book moments that were not included after that proposal. The part about his walking stick is v. v. funny. Why didn't they tell ODB not to use it as a crutch (it is something I noticed he had, but I didn't even think about how he leaned on it...)...LOL, like how AD also refers to Adrian Lukis as "the Wickham actor". Thanks KJArt!

Thanks, KJ - great stuff!

Thanks KJ for the info. It is hard to transcribe him, he jumps all around and does speak in fragments. Good job.

Thanks KJ,I enjoyed the information.

(Tress) I agree with Davies on this part...I did wish they would have stopped and actually looked at each other (and Darcy needed to take her hand, or something!)...they both seemed not to want to make eye contact ... Unfortunately, JA herself was partly to blame for this approach. She refers to Elizabeth as being "much too embarrassed" to say a word about his protesting it was all done for her. And after he professes his intentions are unchanged, and Elizabeth responds with a yae vote, JA says "Had Elizabeth been able to encounter his eyes, she might have seen how well the expression of heartfelt delight diffused over his face became him; but although she could not look, she could listen, ... etc", so I am afraid JA was not thinking cinematic design here ... perhaps AD should have overrruled her here, or at least modified it a bit...

(KJArt) I am afraid JA was not thinking cinematic design here ... perhaps AD should have overrruled her here, or at least modified it a bit... Many here ardently espouse the fact that movies need to stand on their own. I agree. I also can be thrilled though by the glory of hearing JA spoken and being true to the text. But there was a happy medium here and I'm not sure they found it. At the very least, the Lizzy at the end did not feel like the spirited Lizzy of the rest of the movie. JA wrote multiple post-proposal scenes. There were several opportunities to expand on their joy for our benefit. I do believe they rushed through the end. As much as I love the dimples as they leave the wedding scene, the abrupt change from the 2nd proposal Darcy to the married Darcy needed some buffering, they missed that opportunity.

(KJArt) JA says "Had Elizabeth been able to encounter his eyes, she might have seen how well the expression of heartfelt delight diffused over his face became him; but although she could not look, she could listen (Barb) JA wrote multiple post-proposal scenes. There were several opportunities to expand on their joy for our benefit. I do believe they rushed through the end As much as I love JA, I have never been satisfied with the second proposal scene as she wrote it. As with the first proposal, JA only gave us an outline of Darcy's words. She left the rest to our imaginations. I wish AD had let his imagination run wild at this point, and I might be more satisfied with the second proposal scene. Still, a very small complaint for almost six hours of extreme viewing pleasure!

(KJArt) And after he professes his intentions are unchanged, and Elizabeth responds with a yae vote, JA says "Had Elizabeth been able to encounter his eyes, she might have seen how well the expression of heartfelt delight diffused over his face became him; but although she could not look, she could listen, ... etc", You are right about how JA wrote the scene, she was vague. The line prior to your quoted line is "The happiness which this reply produced, was such as he probably never felt before; and he expressed himself on the occasion as sensibly and as warmly as a man violently in love can be supposed to do." Although JA gave little detail, I would expect AD to add some filler for us. He is, after all, the man who gave us a pond jumping, bath taking, horseback riding, fencing Darcy. If Darcy was so in love, I wanted him to show it! Lizzie may not have been able to look at him, but he could definitely have changed that! ;-) The scene in the book covers so much more, they walk for miles and talk about the letter, her visit to Pemberley, Georgiana, Jane and Bingley...there was so much time in there, that although JA didn't talk about Darcy and Lizzie's 'countenance', AD could have!! (BarbS) At the very least, the Lizzy at the end did not feel like the spirited Lizzy of the rest of the movie. If only AD had added the part where Lizzie teases Darcy about his falling in love with her... (KathyF) Still, a very small complaint for almost six hours of extreme viewing pleasure! Hear! Hear! Still one of my absolute favorite films of all time!!

(KathyF) Still, a very small complaint for almost six hours of extreme viewing pleasure! I agree 100%. Definitely one of my all time favorites.

Due to the fact that this topic starts with posts that are, for whatever reason, dated 2036, it appears we will be taking the long way home (to recent posts) until we simply run out of space. (Perhaps in 102 more posts?) Every time I check this topic, I find myself reading different old posts. Must admit I've yet to read them all. How I wish I'd discovered Drool (or had access to a computer with the internet, for that matter) back in 1999 when these responses were posted! You women were insane!

I also wish that I had discovered these sites long ago - sometimes I want to respond to a post and then I look at the date and just give up! But oh, it makes watching P&P2 soo interesting - thinking that at least I am not alone in the world, while others have all the fun. Just a note about one of my fav scenes. Mr Collins dancing with Lizzy - and Mr Darcy's smirk - I like to think that is Colin thinking, 'at least they aren't going to show me making a mistake like that!'

(Leah) Mr Collins dancing with Lizzy - and Mr Darcy's smirk - I like to think that is Colin thinking, 'at least they aren't going to show me making a mistake like that!' I never thought of it that way, but now that you mention it, I'm sure all the actors occasionally had "wrecks." Those were mighty intricate dances. I love the way Mr. Collins hops around like a crazed crow! In fact, in some ways I just love Mr. C!! David Bamber was perfect.

The part I can't imagine is how hard it must have been for Colin and Jennifer to keep track of the dance AND their dialogue. I bet it took a lot of rehearsal. Kathy, I've run into the "2036 problem" too. Apparently it used to happen from time to time. So I say, let's fill this one up with lots of drool so we can have a new one! And I agree about wishing I'd been here ages ago. I can remember in 1996 being just nuts about P&P - re-watching my home-recorded tape over and over - but not having any friends who were as crazy about it as I was.